# Roamio - Adding External Storage



## markp99

I am contemplating expanding the storage on my Roamio Plus.

An external eSATA drive seems least painful from an install/moving recordings an internal replacement would require. Is the Roamio limited to the My Book AV DVR Expander from Western Digital?

I no longer have a functional PC with eSATA drive ports, so I might be a bit limited on a winmfs-based approach. 

What are my options? Should I just bite the bullet and switch out the internal drive??


----------



## aaronwt

Yes, switch out the internal drive.


----------



## steve614

Yes, now that TiVo made it easy to upgrade the internal hard drive, it's a no brainer.

Forget about the external and the extra point of failure it adds.


----------



## markp99

steve614 said:


> Forget about the external and the extra point of failure it adds.


Sold on this point alone!


----------



## gweempose

steve614 said:


> Yes, now that TiVo made it easy to upgrade the internal hard drive, it's a no brainer.


I haven't followed any of the Roamio drive upgrade threads. How is it easier now? Do you no longer need WinMFS or InstantCake?


----------



## bobfrank

All reports are that you just install a new hard drive, up to 3 tb, and the Tivo installs the software without any additional software needed on your part.


----------



## dianebrat

gweempose said:


> I haven't followed any of the Roamio drive upgrade threads. How is it easier now? Do you no longer need WinMFS or InstantCake?


correct no tools needed, take the old drive out, place the blank drive in, Tivo formats it as needed.


----------



## mdscott

dianebrat said:


> correct no tools needed, take the old drive out, place the blank drive in, Tivo formats it as needed.


Up to 3TB

michael


----------



## TC25D

gweempose said:


> I haven't followed any of the Roamio drive upgrade threads.


There's only 1 thread and all the answers are within the first few pages. Let us know if you'd like someone to stop over and install a drive for you.


----------



## gweempose

bobfrank said:


> All reports are that you just install a new hard drive, up to 3 tb, and the Tivo installs the software without any additional software needed on your part.





dianebrat said:


> Correct no tools needed, take the old drive out, place the blank drive in, Tivo formats it as needed.


Wow, that's pretty cool! I wish I had known this before buying my Pro. I could have bought a Plus instead and just upgraded it myself. I assume I would have saved some money. How much are 3TB drives going for these days? Do you have to use a specific type, or will any old 3TB drive do?


----------



## markp99

Westrn Digital AV-GP 3TB $146.67

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W9BKE0


----------



## gweempose

markp99 said:


> Westrn Digital AV-GP 3TB $146.67
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W9BKE0


It's actually $10 less now at $136.54. 
Are there any other difference between the Plus and the Pro other than the size of the drive?


----------



## yokito

Is it true that as soon as TiVo gets external storage it is being used right away to store stuff - even if the internal hard drive is not full yet?


----------



## fdisker2000

yokito said:


> Is it true that as soon as TiVo gets external storage it is being used right away to store stuff - even if the internal hard drive is not full yet?


As soon as an external HDD is used it is "married" to the internal drive and recordings can and will span the two drives. If the external HDD is removed any recordings since its use will, most likely, no longer work. Recordings from before the externals use should still work.


----------



## CrispyCritter

fdisker2000 said:


> As soon as an external HDD is used it is "married" to the internal drive and recordings can and will span the two drives. If the external HDD is removed any recordings since its use will, most likely, no longer work. Recordings from before the externals use should still work.


Yes. This is done for speed, but also more importantly, cablecard regulations. CableLabs is very particular that a cablecard device does not put an entire copy of a recording on a device outside of the cablecard device (the TiVo itself).


----------



## yokito

So, if the external hard drive fails will I lose all recordings since installation of that drive or only some?


----------



## TC25D

yokito said:


> So, if the external hard drive fails will I lose all recordings since installation of that drive or only some?


This.

The TiVo starts using the external drive as soon as it is connected.


----------



## zubinh

I just need a little extra capacity not much. I saw a 500GB USB hard drive (Seagate STBX 500100) for about $60 on Amazon. It is powered by USB only no separate adapter needed. Is there anything like this with ESATA that can be powered by the Roamio without a separate power supply?


----------



## bradleys

I installed an external drive on my S3 just after the functionality was introduced and the handshake failed within just a few months. The drive was fine, but something went wrong and the Tivo would not work.

I removed the external drive, rebooted and everthing was back to normal. But, yes - I lost ALL of my recordings.

I would never use an external drive again, it just creates an unessessary level of complexity if you have a problem with either drive - you will loose everything!


----------



## Goober96

Now that they come with such large drives and upgrading the drive is so simple, I agree that adding an external drive is just more potential trouble than it's worth.


----------



## Chesterton

What about the warranty? Isn't that a reason to go with an external drive? Sorry, I'm not trying to drive my own point, as I'm just a newbie to TiVo. I just don't know the answer. Is the answer "keep the old disk around and put it back in if something goes wrong and hope TiVo doesn't notice when it's sent in"?


----------



## dianebrat

Chesterton said:


> What about the warranty? Isn't that a reason to go with an external drive? Sorry, I'm not trying to drive my own point, as I'm just a newbie to TiVo. I just don't know the answer. Is the answer "keep the old disk around and put it back in if something goes wrong and hope TiVo doesn't notice when it's sent in"?


Tivo has always been a "don't ask, don't tell" approach to replaced drives, they know you upgraded your drive, but if the OEM drive is back in it for troubleshooting and the issues is not drive related, they will usually let it slide. It's not written in stone, but over the years it's been pretty consistent.


----------



## Adam333

How big is the hard drive on the middle of the road roamio?



Thanks
Adam


----------



## aaronwt

Adam333 said:


> How big is the hard drive on the middle of the road roamio?
> 
> Thanks
> Adam


The Roamio Plus comes with a 1TB drive.

The Roamio Pro comes with a 3TB drive.

The Roamio Basic comes with a 500GB drive.


----------



## bradleys

Adam333 said:


> How big is the hard drive on the middle of the road roamio?
> 
> Thanks
> Adam


The plus has a 1 Terabyte drive installed, it can be replaced with a 3tb drive.


----------



## HDRyder9

bradleys said:


> The plus has a 1 Terabyte drive installed, it can be replaced with a 3tb drive.


Yes, it can.


----------



## aaronwt

It can also be replaced with a 1.5 TB, 2 TB, or 2.5 TB drive too. Isn't that the case?


----------



## mkelley

Sorry to revisit on old thread, but I just bought a Roamio Basic (the lowest model) after not having a new TiVo since my Series 3.

It so happens I have lots of 3TB drives laying around (don't ask -- I'm a former IT professional who just has lots of computer gear) and am wondering if the internal drive replacement is true for the Basic (which I don't see anyone talking about here except in terms of drive space).

Frankly I'm not sure I'll ever need or want more than 75 hours of HD recording (because with my older TiVos I found if I had too much stuff it just never got watched and eventually deleted) but OTOH the idea of putting a much larger drive inside appeals to me. In any case, is this a possibility with the TiVo I bought? (And are there instructions to point me to somewhere on the web, although I suspect I could figure it out once I got the box opened up, as I replace drives in computers all the time).


----------



## eboydog

mkelley said:


> Sorry to revisit on old thread, but I just bought a Roamio Basic (the lowest model) after not having a new TiVo since my Series 3.
> 
> It so happens I have lots of 3TB drives laying around (don't ask -- I'm a former IT professional who just has lots of computer gear) and am wondering if the internal drive replacement is true for the Basic (which I don't see anyone talking about here except in terms of drive space).
> 
> Frankly I'm not sure I'll ever need or want more than 75 hours of HD recording (because with my older TiVos I found if I had too much stuff it just never got watched and eventually deleted) but OTOH the idea of putting a much larger drive inside appeals to me. In any case, is this a possibility with the TiVo I bought? (And are there instructions to point me to somewhere on the web, although I suspect I could figure it out once I got the box opened up, as I replace drives in computers all the time).


It will work for the basic just the same manner as the Plus & Pro, the cover isn't as easy to remove as the standard box as there is one screw to remove (in the back center) and the cover slips off with three tabs that need to be eased out carefully to prevent their damage, it's a little nerving at first as you don't want to damage the plastic cover. There is drive upgrade thread in the Roamio section that has pictures and better instructions.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507695

Just about any 3tb drive should work but the preferred option is use the green AV drives as the standard desktop drives can produce more heat than the type of drives intended including those who hold the position that the AV drives are just better for the Roamio overall. Of course removing the cover voids the warranty and it's advised to keep the stock drive for warranty purposes.


----------



## jmbach

A do it yourself Roamio 4TB install is now possible. Not as simple as dropping a drive in and go for 3TB and less size drive as it requires using a computer to prep the 4TB drive. Look at it here at 4TB Roamio Image community edition


----------



## tivoboy

When one does this, and has shows still on the primary initial drive. Is there any relatively elegant way of maintaining access to the current shows? Could one put this in an external and then flip flop at times with a reboot?


----------



## jmbach

No elegant way. You would have to open the case and flip drives. You can use some of the other utilities that can transfer shows from TiVo to PC as long as the copy protection bit is not set. You can then transfer them back on to the new drive.


----------



## thxman

For anyone having issues with adding an Expander drive (WD), to a Roamio _from an older system_, Tivo support has confirmed it is a known issues (since April!).

My S3 HD died after almost 7 workhorse years, where I had a MyDvrEx 1TB hooked up, but when I worked out a deal with Tivo for a new Roamio basic (I only record OTA so having 4 tuners was very attractive to me), no matter what I did I could not get the drive to be seen.

Tivo support did say to their knowledge a new MyDvr works fine; just not an older one from a different Tivo box. I wonder if I were to hook that drive up to my Win7 laptop which has an eSATA port, if reformatting the drive back to FAT32 might provide me a workaround? Anyone have opinions on this I would love to hear it.

Thanks in advance and hope this helps anyone experiencing the same frustrating issue.


----------



## telemark

An Opinion:
Probably if you zero out the first 64 blocks, this will make the drive look blank to the Roamio.

I suggest using iBored, because it can do a backup of any changes you make, and runs on Windows.


----------



## jmbach

I agree with telemark's opinion. 

But I do wonder how far it goes to try to attach the drive. Does it recognize the drive as an approved drive and offer to initialize it and reboot the TiVo to finalize the attachment. Or does it recognize that it is already TiVo formatted and try to use the current setup and just add it to the TiVo.

If it is the latter, it could be that it is confused about the ending.


----------



## thxman

The Roamio will not recognize the drive at all (even after multiple unplugs & boot ups). I'm thinking a quick format to clear the MBR back to an initialized FAT32 table might do the trick (especially after support told me that new drives work fine).

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## jmbach

Hmmm. Does not recognize the drive at all. Could you post the full model number of the drive and the firmware revision you get from WD diagnostics. For the model need the info after the hyphen as well.


----------



## CopRock

If you aren't looking to open up and install a new HDD [and lose content on the old] is a 1tb WD external the only way to go or can you go higher TB's {roamio basic model} ... I'm a total newbie to the Tivo world and just got it at the end of last year for my b'day.
Is it the WD external hard drives that say "Tivo certified" on them or are other models of "My Book A/V " from WD ok? [like WDBABT0010HBK on $99 special online]
.
ps.. this is my first post, noob here be kind


----------



## jmbach

If you are looking for plug and play you will need the "TiVo certified" WD external hard drives.


----------



## eboydog

With the Roamio, just not a lot of reasons to use the external drive expansion esp since a 3tb drive can be dropped in with no prep work needed and now that there is a free 4tb option which does require a little work, the risk of the external drive is unnecessary.


----------



## CopRock

eboydog said:


> With the Roamio, just not a lot of reasons to use the external drive expansion esp since a 3tb drive can be dropped in with no prep work needed and now that there is a free 4tb option which does require a little work, the risk of the external drive is unnecessary.


Yeah I know, but for a variety of reasons I'd rather do an external drive... and its usually running 85-95% so would have to lose stuff I haven't watched
It looks like its only 1tb WD's out there, so I'll try that for now and I'm assuming the risk you are talking about is something not getting recorded and not some fire hazard explosion thing right? 

Just curious, why does a 4TB need to be 'prepped' and not a 3TB internal?


----------



## telemark

CopRock said:


> Just curious, why does a 4TB need to be 'prepped' and not a 3TB internal?


Short answer: 4TB is far enough away from 3TB to break Tivo's assumptions.

Long answer:
The Roamio preps a drive by a simple formula / method of many fixed sized partitions, and 2 variable size partitions based on the drive size. Tivo didn't necessarily intend this to work with arbitrary drive sizes, aside from their chosen HD sizes. (500, 1TB, 3TB)

The map the formula (a formula designed for smaller drives) generates for a 4TB drive though, ends up needing 64bit addresses. This overflows some other Tivo software which only allocated 32bit addresses.

There are better 4TB maps that stay within 32bit addresses, but the auto-generated map is not one of those.

If Tivo wanted to support 4TB drives, it would be a one line change for them.


----------



## jwbelcher

telemark said:


> If Tivo wanted to support 3TB and 4TB drives, it would be a one line change for them.


Thanks thats nice to know... 1 line.


----------



## andyw715

Doesn't the pro come with 3 TB?


----------



## telemark

andyw715 said:


> Doesn't the pro come with 3 TB?


Sorry, I was writing from memory. Thanks, corrected for now.

I'll check the calculated offsets when I get a chance, but the explanation is the same though.


----------



## nooneuknow

telemark said:


> If Tivo wanted to support 4TB drives, it would be a one line change for them.


Is the $64K question a matter of now that workarounds have been made, if TiVo changes that "one line" to properly auto-partition could it break WK and other 4TB band-aid solutions?

It would suck if the "one line change for TiVo" couldn't be implemented due to the workarounds (if that's the right way to describe the matter).

How's the testing on the WD Purple PURX drive going? I have some erase/read/erase/verify tests I'd like to get a results for from you, using HDD Scan 3.3 and 8192 logical sectors per operation on your drive(s) if possible. At minimum the non-destructive read/verify tests could help me.


----------



## mattack

telemark said:


> If Tivo wanted to support 4TB drives, it would be a one line change for them.


Well, obviously don't limit it at 4 TB, since there are now 6 TB drives available.



nooneuknow said:


> Is the $64K question a matter of now that workarounds have been made, if TiVo changes that "one line" to properly auto-partition could it break WK and other 4TB band-aid solutions?


I have absolutely no info either way, but I suspect not.. as long as it can read the partitions, and doesn't think it's an unformatted drive..


----------



## telemark

nooneuknow said:


> Is the $64K question a matter of now that workarounds have been made, if TiVo changes that "one line" to properly auto-partition could it break WK and other 4TB band-aid solutions?
> 
> It would suck if the "one line change for TiVo" couldn't be implemented due to the workarounds (if that's the right way to describe the matter).


The small change I mentioned would just restrict the formatter to stay within 32bits. This should not affect anything besides drives that need to be (re)formatted.



mattack said:


> Well, obviously don't limit it at 4 TB, since there are now 6 TB drives available.


6TB may require proper 64bit support. If they haven't done it already, it would be changing variable declarations from 32bit size to 64bit size (assuming the relevant language used works that way).



> How's the testing on the WD Purple PURX drive going?


Drive is on the shelf. You should PM me tests you want done. And soon cause I only got it for the 4TB project which is about finished.


----------



## Keith Elkin

I'm curious if anyone ever verified whether you can move an external drive from one Tivo to another by formatting it? I just received a Roamio Plus today and since I already own a WD MyBook DVR Expander which is connected to the old Series 3 I'll be replacing, why not user it on the Roamio Plus and save $120.. Any try it?


----------



## jmbach

Yes you can move it. You of course lose all recordings. (unless you transfer the ones that are not copy protected first) If you run into problems, might need to get a program that wipes out the first few sectors first and then connect it to the Roamio.


----------



## bmgoodman

Keith Elkin said:


> I'm curious if anyone ever verified whether you can move an external drive from one Tivo to another by formatting it? I just received a Roamio Plus today and since I already own a WD MyBook DVR Expander which is connected to the old Series 3 I'll be replacing, why not user it on the Roamio Plus and save $120.. Any try it?


Unless the MyBook is pretty new or you don't value your recordings, I would suggest you don't use it. Sure, it's extra space, but if it's anywhere near as old as your Series 3, it's possibly on its last legs.


----------



## JWhites

Oh I've had the original WD DVR expander (orange ring) running non stop just fine on one of the new Roamio Pro units I installed last year for my Uncle and it's running as great as the day I bought it for him back in I think 2007. It's been used with a TiVo HD, a Moxi, a Comcast Cisco DVR, a Premiere, and now the Roamio Pro. I was concerned with how it would hold up in the Roamio with the thirteen activities going on at the same time. (Six tuners recording, playing back a pre recorded show, transferring a show to another TiVo, transferring a show from another TiVo, streaming four shows to mobile devices, and streaming a pre recorded show remotely to another TiVo, all at the same time without a problem.


----------



## Diana Collins

Of course, all hard drives work great...until they don't. Most hard drive failures are sudden, and usually fatal.


----------



## JWhites

True but the same can be said about a lot of things that fail suddenly without warning, including airplane fuselages and blood vessels.


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> True but the same can be said about a lot of things that fail suddenly without warning, including airplane fuselages and blood vessels.


Which, like you expressed concern about, often let-go when bearing greater load, or are otherwise stressed. More tuners = more TB/yr workload, which would often take whatever unknown point the drive would fail in the future, left to the same use, and move it in the "sooner" rather than "later" direction, with it's new heavier/higher-stress use. But, since no completely accurate drive health monitoring mechanisms, or life gauges, exists, you are stuck not knowing. All you can do is watch for warning signs, and hope drive doesn't not have a sudden-death failure.

SMART is sometimes helpful. But, a TiVo doesn't even look at it unless you use KS54, or when booting/rebooting, it will quietly check the overall state (pass/fail), and merely put a FAIL result into the TiVo logs (TiVo can see a drive failed the status check, if you call and ask about a problem, and they view your logs). It's not going to pop up a warning on your TiVo saying it has a degraded below threshold SMART attribute value. So, unless you manually check a TiVo drive with KS54, the realtime monitoring functions are useless (but the attributes still change as the drive operates and detects things that have attributes).

If you are aiming for my level of awareness, pull the drive every so often, to connect to a PC, and run a full read test, then view the attribute values. You could also run some nondestructive benchmarking/performance tests to see if the drive is getting slow with age (inevitable), or has developed weak/slow sectors. Of course, besides being excessive, the handling and reseating of connections might create a failure that would otherwise not have occurred. So, even the most obsessive folk might just want to stick to the KS54 tests.

As a generalized rule: I suggest simply buying the right drive for the job, then doing all the tests, at least once, and hope you get 5 years out of it. Anything longer than 5 years is a gift, IMO.


----------



## JWhites

I only expressed concern because the new hard drives support 16 simultaneous streams at a time and I wasn't sure an 8 year old drive could handle it, and was pleased it can.


----------



## Keith Elkin

Yeah... I suppose I'm just trying to be cheap.. I just don't want to spend another $130... so I figure I'd use my existing drive.. If I buy a 3TB drive does it matter which make/model I get these days? 
-Keith


----------



## nooneuknow

JWhites said:


> I only expressed concern because *the new hard drives support 16 simultaneous streams at a time* and I wasn't sure an 8 year old drive could handle it, and was pleased it can.


Why does everybody fall for this marketing, that has absolutely zero relevance for TiVo use, at all? I keep trying to stop these false assumptions, but my posts get buried by all the fallout I get for being technical (and there is no other way to explain it).

When drive mfg's say their drives support xx "streams", they aren't talking about the "streams" in the same context as TiVo's way of writing AV data to a drive. So far, the only DVR-like devices I'm aware of that use such streams, are true surveillance systems. In these scenarios, not only does each stream being recorded need to get every frame, the date/time stream that accompanies it needs to be spot-on accurate. Each stream is also being displayed, while recorded, making a 16 camera system require 32 streams. Don't have enough supported streams to use just one drive? Add more drives to the array to add more streams. This is where the AV-GP can't go, and Red NAS steps in (or the Purple for RAID host devices that work with WD's "allframe" which supports 32 streams). Since the Purple only has 1/3 the TB/yr rating of a Red NAS, you'd need more drives for the workload, or you'd need the cameras to me motion-activated, which is exactly the target market for the Purple drives. Still not enough, because you don't have motion activated cameras? Now there is the WD Red NAS Pro, at 7200RPM, for that.

TiVo never implemented the ATA AV Streaming feature set, which writes data using an entirely different algorithm. TiVo just writes it like any other data on the drive, using the same algorithms and error correction as if you were running your computer OS on it, or it was a second drive that you used for bulk storage or backup. This is why you can (and people have been) opting to save some money (used to be ~$100 difference versus ~$10 now), by getting plain "green" drives, like the EZRX, EARS, EADS, & other non-AV models.

With a TiVo, how much your drive can handle, before everything becomes too much, is limited by the rate at which the drive can internally write the data to the platters, in normal desktop drive mode, but also running in IDE compatibility mode (another potential bottleneck).

The ATA AV Streaming feature set is the base, upon which WD created "silkstream" and the newer "allframe" proprietary iterations, but backward compatible with the base feature set. But, the number of streams supported will be reduced if the host device doesn't use the full added functions in the proprietary additional extensions. Seagate has their own brand names for their enhanced proprietary iterations of the same base ATA standard.

It's almost always some of the members I least expect, to get hooked by this marketing bait. I just don't get it.

When it comes to a TiVo, the ONLY marketing speak that does really matter is the TB/yr rating, in conjunction with having a 24/7/365 rating, while the AV designation simply means the drive was designed around AV use, and, at minimum, supports the ATA AV Streaming base-standard, which tends to also include a year more of warranty. This gives you a better idea how much data the drive can handle, and how long it can do so for.

AnandTech has all the details on other brands. If you want the Seagate specifics, and other drive specifics, as well as comparisons, in the same classes, that's where you want to go get reading. A few days later, you'll have a migraine, and understand why I stick to WD, and don't factor in Seagate, in most threads. If TiVo goes Seagate exclusive, or I start using Seagate, that might change. I try not to play forum expert on a product I don't even use. The 500GB Seagate drives from my base Roamios never even got powered-up, before they hit the "original TiVo drive storage rack".


----------



## Keith Elkin

I can confirm that I moved my WD MyDVR Expander drive from my old Tivo Series 3 to my new Roamio Plus without any problems. It didn't pop up like it recognized it but when I looked at the system settings I noticed it saw it as external storage... I went to Settings --> Remote Cable Cards & Devices --> External Storage and there it was.... It saw the drive but told me I had to reformat the drive since it was from a different Tivo... I did so, and my total recording capacity went from 150 hours to 350. Thanks for everyone's help!
-Keith


----------



## JWhites

Congrats Keith :up: enjoy filling it up


----------



## JWhites

Thank you nooneuknow. I enjoyed reading your post. Detailed posts like yours is one of the reasons why I come here. :up:


----------



## JWhites

CrispyCritter said:


> Yes. This is done for speed, but also more importantly, cablecard regulations. CableLabs is very particular that a cablecard device does not put an entire copy of a recording on a device outside of the cablecard device (the TiVo itself).


That means both Motorola and Moxi would be in violation. Moxi for example works in a RAID 0 configuration so when a recording takes place it puts the entire thing on the drive with the most space. Motorola touts that you can have multiple expander drives married to one DVR but only use one at a time so you can use them to archive recordings in the same fashion as VCR tapes.


----------



## Captainbob

Will this drive work with the Roamio Basic cause it is much cheaper than the one Tivo sells? http://www.amazon.com/Book-Expander-eSATA-External-Drive/dp/B003MVZ60S


----------



## nooneuknow

Captainbob said:


> Will this drive work with the Roamio Basic cause it is much cheaper than the one Tivo sells? http://www.amazon.com/Book-Expander-eSATA-External-Drive/dp/B003MVZ60S


If the the number of instances that "TiVo" appears in the positive reviews is any indication, yes. I only parsed a few reviews, but saw enough to feel safe saying yes.

Quite a few have spoke of using the same expander drive on each TiVo, as they have upgraded, with no issues. So, if it works on a TiVo HD and up, it will work with a Roamio. The S3 (pre-TiVo HD) had an unintentionally left-enabled kickstart that allowed any drive to be used with the S3, so leave that out when you get back to your research.

Many here, would advise you to avoid the "additional points of failure" external drives add, and I agree. Expander drives have quite a bad reputation for overheating inside the case, connection issues, and only lasting as long as the warranty, or less.

As with anything, there are those that say they've used the same one for 8 years, on 3+ TiVos, and provider leased DVRs. Those reports are still the minority. But, if you are willing to gamble with possibly losing everything recorded since installing one (TiVo uses a proprietary non-RAID system to make sure recordings are partially stored on each drive), it's your TiVo. Do what you wish.

I think you know my "official opinion".


----------



## JWhites

Captainbob said:


> Will this drive work with the Roamio Basic cause it is much cheaper than the one Tivo sells? http://www.amazon.com/Book-Expander-eSATA-External-Drive/dp/B003MVZ60S


I can guarantee that it will because this is the exact one I just bought last week for my mom off that same page on Amazon. I've also bought from that same Amazon page about eight times over the past few months for my customers installations. Runs cool, silent, and it's fast, using the latest hard drive model WD10EURX. I've even bought from that same page a few times myself and it's what I'm using right now on my own TiVo's as I'm typing this.


----------



## mattack

You mean as an _external_ drive? That's what I think the original questioner was asking.


----------



## JWhites

mattack said:


> You mean as an _external_ drive? That's what I think the original questioner was asking.


What?


----------



## abovethesink

Does anyone know how Weakness get the larger external drives working?


----------



## nooneuknow

abovethesink said:


> Does anyone know how Weakness get the larger external drives working?


Only WK does, and they do their best to keep it that way (and have every right to).

The next question is always about figuring it out, by reverse engineering. That's an area where you will get fire & brimstone from those who see it as theft, or as just morally wrong. So, I suggest treading lightly/carefully, if that's the next thing you would post.


----------



## mattack

JWhites said:


> What?


AFAIK, the only supported external drive is the "official" one.. not any other external drive... (There are hack solutions that will work, but again, those are hacks.)


----------



## JWhites

mattack said:


> AFAIK, the only supported external drive is the "official" one.. not any other external drive... (There are hack solutions that will work, but again, those are hacks.)


Oh I know that, I just didn't understand your sentence at that point, I think I figured it out now.


----------



## JWhites

mattack said:


> You mean as an _external_ drive? That's what I think the original questioner was asking.


Yes, it will work as an external drive it's the exact one I've been buying from since 2011. I checked my records and I've bought and installed 4,142 for my customers since then and as I said in my previous post it's the same one I use myself. :up: Haven't had a problem with not one of them, so that's saying a lot for quality control.


----------



## sangs

Question - taking a 3TB from one Roamio Plus and switching it to another Roamio Plus gives me errors. I'm not worried about saving what's already on the drive, I just want to get it to work in the new Roamio Plus. Should I format it on my Mac first and if so, which format? Thanks in advance.


----------



## jrtroo

What errors are you getting? May want to check the drive itself. Reports are the installation triggers a format, regardless of what is already on the drive.


----------



## sangs

jrtroo said:


> What errors are you getting? May want to check the drive itself.


Well it installs fine, but it gives me errors when I go to watch anything on the drive - something about how this recording will expire on 1/1 due to copyright (and that's for network shows and or cable shows) - and it displays a C133 error, even though it appears to be connecting fine and I can see my channels. So I'm not sure what the problem is really. I thought I could just swap the drives and have at it. But since I don't really want to get involved in a day of troubleshooting, I just thought it'd be best to format the drive to an unused state and just plug it back in and start from scratch. There's nothing terribly important that I need to watch. (Edit - it was working fine in the previous Roamio Plus btw. No issues whatsoever.)


----------



## HarperVision

sangs said:


> Well it installs fine, but it gives me errors when I go to watch anything on the drive - something about how this recording will expire on 1/1 due to copyright (and that's for network shows and or cable shows) - and it displays a C133 error, even though it appears to be connecting fine and I can see my channels. So I'm not sure what the problem is really. I thought I could just swap the drives and have at it. But since I don't really want to get involved in a day of troubleshooting, I just thought it'd be best to format the drive to an unused state and just plug it back in and start from scratch. There's nothing terribly important that I need to watch. (Edit - it was working fine in the previous Roamio Plus btw. No issues whatsoever.)


I had the exact same issue when I swapped my 3TB from my Basic to a new Plus. I just had to do a "Clear & Delete Everything" on the new box, then redid Guided Setup and all was well.

PS - It did take a couple days for the Discovery Bar to show up for some reason though, but all other functions were working properly.


----------



## sangs

HarperVision said:


> I had the exact same issue when I swapped my 3TB from my Basic to a new Plus. I just had to do a "Clear & Delete Everything" on the new box, then redid Guided Setup and all was well.
> 
> PS - It did take a couple days for the Discovery Bar to show up for some reason though, but all other functions were working properly.


Thanks, I'll give that a shot. Appreciate it.


----------



## Selmabody

Waiting on getting the new unit for a few days but it is nice to know that an upgrade will be this easy


----------



## KARTman

I am wanting to add a external 3TB hard drive to my Roamio Basic, the cheapest way possible. 
Does anyone have suggestions on how to do this.
I agree that just replacing the internal hard drive would be the best way to do this, but then I would loose all of my recorded shows. I am totally Macintosh Household so some of the transferring off of the Tivo, then transferring it back, just does not seem like a viable option. 
My frustration is with the eSATA port on the back of the TiVo. Best Buy is selling the 3TB External USB drive for $112, but the USB cable will not plug in.
It seems like the cheapest External SATA port 3TB drive I can get is $170 on Amazon.
I looked into eSATA USB cables but they will not work with the cheap External USB Drives because the connector on the back of the these drives is the square USB connector.
Another option is to purchase a 3TB internal Drive (about $100), then get a external drive enclosure($30-$40) with eSATA connector. But I am having trouble finding the external enclosure.


----------



## dianebrat

KARTman said:


> I am wanting to add a external 3TB hard drive to my Roamio Basic, the cheapest way possible.
> Does anyone have suggestions on how to do this.
> I agree that just replacing the internal hard drive would be the best way to do this, but then I would loose all of my recorded shows. I am totally Macintosh Household so some of the transferring off of the Tivo, then transferring it back, just does not seem like a viable option.
> My frustration is with the eSATA port on the back of the TiVo. Best Buy is selling the 3TB External USB drive for $112, but the USB cable will not plug in.
> It seems like the cheapest External SATA port 3TB drive I can get is $170 on Amazon.
> I looked into eSATA USB cables but they will not work with the cheap External USB Drives because the connector on the back of the these drives is the square USB connector.
> Another option is to purchase a 3TB internal Drive (about $100), then get a external drive enclosure($30-$40) with eSATA connector. But I am having trouble finding the external enclosure.


None of that matters, you need an approved Tivo DVR Expander and they only come in 1TB size so all of your planning won't help.


----------



## jmbach

+1

The only option you have at this time is using a 3rd party solution like Weaknees


----------



## telemark

Is WK doing data migration during upgrades on Roamio?


----------



## jmbach

Not that I know of.


----------



## Kipp Jones

Hi,
I am a bit late to the game. I am looking at:

WD Purple Surveillance/AV 24x7 3TB Intellipower SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" Hard Disk Drive WD30PURX - OEM

or 

Western Digital 3 TB WD AV-GP SATA III Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD30EURX

Will either one of these work in a Roamio Plus?

Thank you.


----------



## HarperVision

Kipp Jones said:


> Hi, I am a bit late to the game. I am looking at: WD Purple Surveillance/AV 24x7 3TB Intellipower SATA III 6Gb/s 3.5" Hard Disk Drive WD30PURX - OEM or Western Digital 3 TB WD AV-GP SATA III Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM AV Hard Drive WD30EURX Will either one of these work in a Roamio Plus? Thank you.


Definitely the WD30EURX. That's what TiVo uses in their Roamio Pro.


----------



## Kipp Jones

Thanks for the quick reply.


----------



## Mikeguy

You might also check the user reviews on the WD30EURX at Amazon.com--nicely regarded.


----------



## Kipp Jones

Thanks for the feedback, just placed my order at Amazon.


----------



## samccfl99

HarperVision said:


> Definitely the WD30EURX. That's what TiVo uses in their Roamio Pro.


re-hi. but they state that data can be written on either internal or external drive, within A recording too. so they say if the expander dies, everything dies. yes, i know hard drives are very reliable, but you never know. when DISH first did this technology (what, 10 years ago and i think they were the first?), you had to transfer shows between internal and external (i dont know how it works now) and visa versa, but at least you would not lose everything if the external died. i would love to get an expander because my 3TB roamio pro is always above 95%, but cant because of this stupid way they write recordings. why do they always do something wrong?

*yes mr harpervision, i am back. just checking on some of the topics in here. do you have something to say about this post or do you agree with me?* :up::down:


----------



## HarperVision

samccfl99 said:


> re-hi. but they state that data can be written on either internal or external drive, within A recording too. so they say if the expander dies, everything dies. yes, i know hard drives are very reliable, but you never know. when DISH first did this technology (what, 10 years ago and i think they were the first?), you had to transfer shows between internal and external (i dont know how it works now) and visa versa, but at least you would not lose everything if the external died. i would love to get an expander because my 3TB roamio pro is always above 95%, but cant because of this stupid way they write recordings. why do they always do something wrong?........


I think we are talking about an internal drive upgrade now and not about externals, not sure I get your post(s), but idk. 



samccfl99 said:


> .........yes mr harpervision, i am back. just checking on some of the topics in here. do you have something to say about this post or do you agree with me? :up::down:


I don't know what to say. Your posts are just so confusing and don't have any rhyme or reason to them it seems. I can't say as I agree or not, because I just don't understand what you're trying to say. Sorry.


----------



## ej42137

HarperVision said:


> I don't know what to say. Your posts are just so confusing and don't have any rhyme or reason to them it seems. I can't say as I agree or not, because I just don't understand what you're trying to say. Sorry.


Maybe everyone should put him on ignore until he finds his caps key and maybe a clue.


----------



## jrtroo

I *think* he is complaining about data striping? A simple search would demonstrate Tivos reasons for that, I'll leave that to the poster to find those and complain there.

ej42137- I have gotten close to doing that, but so far held off. I'm starting my countdown. Punctuation matters.


----------



## samccfl99

HarperVision said:


> I think we are talking about an internal drive upgrade now and not about externals, not sure I get your post(s), but idk.
> 
> I don't know what to say. Your posts are just so confusing and don't have any rhyme or reason to them it seems. I can't say as I agree or not, because I just don't understand what you're trying to say. Sorry.


*the topic of the thread says EXTERNAL STORAGE. and no, my posts are not confusing. they are very logical. this has always been your opinion.*


----------



## samccfl99

ej42137 said:


> Maybe everyone should put him on ignore until he finds his caps key and maybe a clue.


*some of you people are so critical in this community. and very rude. i have a point and have been in IT for over 25 years. ridiculous answer to my post or should i say mr harpervision's reply to my post. i check my posts for grammar and content and correctness, never really gave a crap about capitalization. in the old computer world, we only typed one way....IN CAPS, BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU COULD DO. JEEZ!*


----------



## samccfl99

jrtroo said:


> I *think* he is complaining about data striping? A simple search would demonstrate Tivos reasons for that, I'll leave that to the poster to find those and complain there.
> 
> ej42137- I have gotten close to doing that, but so far held off. I'm starting my countdown. Punctuation matters.


so let me get this straight. you would like that if you had an external drive and it died it would also take ALL recordings away? how it was explained to me BY TIVO, that would happen. dont you think its silly for them to split A recording between the 2 drives? i mean these 2 drives are not replaceable raids. just lazy programming as far as i am concerned. or would u like to enlighten me without the attitude?

and as far as complaining TO THEM, i have done my share of complaining to them at the highest levels for 3 years now (got me a real real cheap deal on a XL4 tradein for a RP!). sometimes it works (after x number of updates, generally at least 3 or many more) and then sometimes they will never fix things. my main complaints are that they never modify the actual DVR because frankly i dont think anyone there really knows anymore about that low level coding. why else are they reluctant to make 15 min tics always no matter the length of the recording and add a 4th and much faster FF/REW speed? or fixing the stupid audio dropout going in and out of Tivo Central with the flash or haxe, whatever. L-A-Z-Y DEVELOPMENT MANAGEMENT. i dont ask for much and this thing costs a lot of money to buy. BUT I STILL LOVE MY RP!!!

P.S. fyi YES, PUNCUATION MATTERS, BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE CAPITALIZATION IS INCLUDED IN PUNCTUATION, BUT I MAY BE WRONG, BUT THEN WHO GIVES A CR*P.


----------



## jrtroo

I'll try to respond, we'll see where that goes.

In a two-drive system if the external fails only the recordings after such additional drive was added will be gone. It was not lazy programming to make it work this way, it too EXTRA programming to make that happen.

Personally, I would not go with a two-drive system because of this. Reliability goes down, even if by just a hair.

On the "why" question, it has been posted time and again this was done intentionally to avoid making shows portable to ease concerns from the entities that regulate (both directly and indirectly*) Tivo. 

Tivo is very conservative legally, for good reason, and I would not see that changing anytime soon.

I'm pretty sure Tivo is not just programming for you and your requests. I have no issue with most of your suggestions, but to expect them to pull out your specific request to try and appease you is strange. 

Punctuation matters, as does grammar. Together they make your posts difficult to read (not to mention the mind-to-screen style of your posts). Its this difficulty that has me considering the ignore function, not the content of your posts.


* CableLabs is not a regulator, but they surely dictate policy that Tivo must follow on standards, and thus I consider them an indirect regulator.


----------



## HarperVision

samccfl99 said:


> the topic of the thread says EXTERNAL STORAGE. and no, my posts are not confusing. they are very logical. this has always been your opinion.


But you quoted me, and I was talking about and answering a question about which internal drive was best for his Roamio.


----------



## HarperVision

samccfl99 said:


> some of you people are so critical in this community. and very rude. i have a point and have been in IT for over 25 years. ridiculous answer to my post or should i say mr harpervision's reply to my post. i check my posts for grammar and content and correctness, never really gave a crap about capitalization. in the old computer world, we only typed one way....IN CAPS, BECAUSE THATS ALL YOU COULD DO. JEEZ!


Once again, I only replied because you quoted ME and brought me into this, and I wasn't even talking about external drives, hence the confusion. Maybe don't use all bold posts too. I'm sure I'm not he only one here who thinks your posts are very hard to read and comprehend. I guess if it is only me, then I apologize and I'll do my best to run your words through my logic filter.


----------



## samccfl99

jrtroo said:


> I'll try to respond, we'll see where that goes.


Thank you for the explanation. Just for you i will try to write better (but, do not expect me to capitalize "I"). i did not know that what was there before the external drive stays on the drive. i never thought about it, but of course it makes perfect sense. But it seems you agree with me. i mean if i bought an external when my tivo was new or 25 or 50% full, you can see why i would be concerned (and was). so since i always float over 90% (yes i am a little crazy, but i like to keep what i like), then if i got one now, i could still lose part of new recordings, correct? i am very appreciative of the explanation. Can you answer me one more thing? If you delete older recordings, wont it start splitting more new recordings between the 2 drives? and if you lose the external, i am assuming you still have the "whole" recordings of the original ones on the internal intact? But (i have been trying to capitalize the first letter of sentences, but it does not always work...sorry) as far as too much programming, what, they dont know which show is recording and cant keep track of which drive it is writing too? i been a system analyst for many years and i am sure this could be done. Just my opinion. Again, thank you for the detailed explanation.:up:

ps, sorry, i cant be worried about capitalizing. it is enough i have to read the post several times before i actually submit it. way too much work. sorry


----------



## samccfl99

HarperVision said:


> Once again, I only replied because you quoted ME and brought me into this, and I wasn't even talking about external drives, hence the confusion. Maybe don't use all bold posts too. I'm sure I'm not he only one here who thinks your posts are very hard to read and comprehend. I guess if it is only me, then I apologize and I'll do my best to run your words through my logic filter.


actually i was not referring to you when i was talking about being rude. and i did not read all the posts. i saw the title of the forum and saw some drive models and i thought you were still talking about the subject topic, external drives. but i have learned something from other responses. AND IS THERE AN IGNORE FUNCTION? how wonderful.


----------



## samccfl99

dianebrat said:


> None of that matters, you need an approved Tivo DVR Expander and they only come in 1TB size so all of your planning won't help.


ok, so i just have to comment on this. yes, this is what they say. this is what they *"approve"* (yes, now we will add a little color and size..LOL). i will give them something to approve. they are unbelievable. and how long has it been this way? FOREVER. i got a 3TB, a 1TB and a 500GB. all WD external usb drives attached to my pc. What is their problem? THEY DON'T CARE, THAT'S WHAT. just my opinion.


----------



## Alan1

eboydog said:


> It will work for the basic just the same manner as the Plus & Pro, the cover isn't as easy to remove as the standard box as there is one screw to remove (in the back center) and the cover slips off with three tabs that need to be eased out carefully to prevent their damage, it's a little nerving at first as you don't want to damage the plastic cover. There is drive upgrade thread in the Roamio section that has pictures and better instructions.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507695
> 
> Just about any 3tb drive should work but the preferred option is use the green AV drives as the standard desktop drives can produce more heat than the type of drives intended including those who hold the position that the AV drives are just better for the Roamio overall. Of course removing the cover voids the warranty and it's advised to keep the stock drive for warranty purposes.


I just upgraded my Roamio basic unit. This Youtube video is helpful. You'll need a T8 and T10 Torx wrench. The video is helpful in understanding where the plastic pins are in the lid. After that it's an easy disk swap (I used the WD Green 3TB drive).

Note that while the disk is quickly recognized and managed, all information (recordings and OnePass requests) are removed. You may want to take note of your OnePass requests so that you can recreate them. The mobile App makes creating these pretty easy.


----------



## dianebrat

samccfl99 said:


> ps, sorry, i cant be worried about capitalizing. it is enough i have to read the post several times before i actually submit it. way too much work. sorry


Unfortunately any post you make won't get it's point across because no one wants to read that hot mess of wall of text. I guess we can't be worried about reading them since you can't be worried about how they present for reading..


----------



## ej42137

dianebrat said:


> Unfortunately any post you make won't get it's point across because no one wants to read that hot mess of wall of text. I guess we can't be worried about reading them since you can't be worried about how they present for reading..


Don't worry, they're pretty much zero-content anyway, with a passive-aggressive attitude.


----------



## samccfl99

ej42137 said:


> Don't worry, they're pretty much zero-content anyway, with a passive-aggressive attitude.


don't want to hear from either you mr LA or the "boston-ish" brat with an old 2 tuner tivo unless you have something useful to say. i _*would*_ like *jrtroo* who at least had the courtesy and decency to answer me with a thoughtful and informative explanation about the expander to answer my post when he has the time. nasty and condescending people who have nothing to do but sit on this forum in judgement and comment on punctuation and crap that does not matter.*"Don't worry, they're pretty much zero-content anyway, with a passive-aggressive attitude.", well thats pretty good english grammar, isn't it now?*

So you say there is an ignore function, THEN CLICK ON IT, AS I AM SURELY GOING TO LOOK FOR THAT AND CLICK ON BOTH OF YOU...:down::down::down:

Forum Rule #3
No Flaming - You may not assault, harass, or degrade other community members in your activities in the community.

Forum Rule #8 (ok, guilty of this one, but NONE of my posts are ALL CAPS)
Refrain from "yelling"  Remember, ALL CAPITAL LETTERS in print is considered yelling.

*ok, i wasted enough time on you two. have a wonderful day and life. now let me go find that ignore function, if there is one and if there is, thank you for that info.*


----------



## jrtroo

Your posts can be hard to read, a wall of text with missing grammar cues. You may not realize how this makes your posts look, which is no positive.

Anyhow, as to the stripping across the drives, all new content is stripped and the old is left alone.


----------



## samccfl99

jrtroo said:


> Your posts can be hard to read, a wall of text with missing grammar cues. You may not realize how this makes your posts look, which is no positive.
> 
> Anyhow, as to the stripping across the drives, all new content is stripped and the old is left alone.


A criticism and a partial answer, but I thank you for the reply. I absolutely agree it is way too risky to do it. I still do not understand why you think that it is too much programming to keep track of which drive A recording is being written to, but whatever. It's too bad, I would like to add another 1 to 3TB to my system. Oh well. I think that future monster TiVo they announced a while ago sounds very interesting, but also sounds so very expensive.

So is this reply grammatically correct (no reply required please)? I tried, but it is really too hard. Not to worry, i won't be back on this thread. Or many more. No real answers here. No one has any real control over anything Tivo. Have a nice day.


----------



## jrtroo

Your best post yet. I can understand your issue, arguments, and position clearly.

Again, I was not meaning to criticize, but let you know some of the difficulties we have had trying to understand what you are stating.


----------



## bradleys

If I read your post correctly, you were wondering why TiVo had "approved" external drive models. The answer is - simply because they are fully tested and certified by TiVo.

Look at any of the hard drive upgrade conversations and you will see a debate about Red vs. Black vs. Green, platter speed, auto park... On and on...

Most consumers do not have the technical knowledge or desire to research the most proper drive, with the appropriate connections, etc...

TiVo has selected this drive as meeting all the connectivity requirements, tested it, and certified it. Now Joe consumer doesn't have to research and understand the pros and cons - he can just purchase and install the TiVo tested and certified external drive.


----------



## L David Matheny

samccfl99 said:


> don't want to hear from either you mr LA or the "boston-ish" brat with an old 2 tuner tivo unless you have something useful to say.


If having something useful to say was a rule here, it would be awfully quiet sometimes. But it takes two to tango, as they say. Don't be too ready to bicker with people. The pseudo-striping across both drives is some kind of (misguided?) security feature or possibly an attempt to improve performance during heavy use. Why would TiVo approve only a 1TB external drive? We don't know. Inertia in the development staff? An attempt to discourage use of external drives?


----------



## lessd

L David Matheny said:


> Why would TiVo approve only a 1TB external drive? We don't know. Inertia in the development staff? An attempt to discourage use of external drives?


The 1Tb drive was some time ago, with 3Tb now standard in some models of TiVo, the need of external (or more storage) among most TiVo customers is nil, and WeaKnees will take care of the few that need more storage. The TCF now give the DYI people a 4Tb upgrade, and I am sure that we will soon have a 6Tb DYI upgrade by the smart people on this forum, therefore IMHO TiVo does not need to spend any money on external storage.


----------



## Mikeguy

lessd said:


> The 1Tb drive was some time ago, with 3Tb now standard in some models of TiVo, the need of external (or more storage) among most TiVo customers is nil, and WeaKnees will take care of the few that need more storage. The TCF now give the DYI people a 4Tb upgrade, and I am sure that we will soon have a 6Tb DYI upgrade by the smart people on this forum, therefore IMHO TiVo does not need to spend any money on external storage.


Except that, for those consumers who don't want to DIY and just want to be able to stop by a Best Buy and pick up an external storage box and then just plug it into their TiVo and forget it entirely, a 3TB external storage accessory would be very useful. This includes Roamio OTA, Roamio, and Roamio Plus owners. And even Roamio Pro owners who want more storage besides.

It just appears that TiVo has dropped the ball, here, and not kept up--no good reason, at this point, it seems to me, not to have a 3TB external storage option along with the current 1TB option. (And, I assume, any needed involvement from TiVo would need be only minimal, in the process.)


----------



## Diana Collins

samccfl99 said:


> A criticism and a partial answer, but I thank you for the reply. I absolutely agree it is way too risky to do it. I still do not understand why you think that it is too much programming to keep track of which drive A recording is being written to, but whatever. It's too bad, I would like to add another 1 to 3TB to my system. Oh well. I think that future monster TiVo they announced a while ago sounds very interesting, but also sounds so very expensive.
> 
> So is this reply grammatically correct (no reply required please)? I tried, but it is really too hard. Not to worry, i won't be back on this thread. Or many more. No real answers here. No one has any real control over anything Tivo. Have a nice day.


If you want to know why TiVo hard drive storage works the way it does, I suggest you scroll down to the TiVo Underground forum archives and start reading the posts from circa 2003 (for an IT professional it should be easy to understand). It is all explained there.


----------



## Diana Collins

Mikeguy said:


> ...It just appears that TiVo has dropped the ball, here, and not kept up--no good reason, at this point, it seems to me, not to have a 3TB external storage option along with the current 1TB option. (And, I assume, any needed involvement from TiVo would need be only minimal, in the process.)


Except that, at 3TB, TiVo is already shipping devices with 3 times the storage of the largest cable/satellite provided DVRs. If I were the TiVo product manager, looking at the list of possible enhancements, I'd put supporting multi-terabyte external drives pretty far down the priority list.


----------



## Mikeguy

But would it really involve any amount of TiVo input, in going from 1TB to 3TB for the external unit? I was assuming that it wouldn't and really would be more a matter of just dropping in a larger drive, but perhaps that operating assumption is wrong.


----------



## Diana Collins

The question is one of support. For example, DirecTV DVRs will allow you to attach almost any eSATA drive, but if you have a problem, you are on your own. External drives are not officially supported. Dish Network supports USB external drives but, at least initially and perhaps still today, only for storage (recordings were made on the internal drive and then transferred to the external). If TiVo were to support the use of larger external drives they would have to test and certify a particular model. All doable, certainly, but I'm not surprised it is on the list of things to be put off.


----------



## Mikeguy

I guess my thought had been, TiVo could pick up the phone and speak to the liaison at Western Digital responsible for the 1TB DVR expander, and say, "Throw your WD30EURX hard drive--which we already use in our TiVo sets--into the expander and make some more money off a larger capacity version," and it all could be handled pretty easily. But, perhaps, not.


----------



## jmbach

Actually two things have to happen to use 3TB external drives and only one for 2TB external drives. First thing for both, TiVo has to update the whitelist of drives the TiVo will accept. Depending on how they update it, it could divorce any third party extenders. The second thing for 3TB drives, TiVo has to fix large drive support. You will know when they fix it when you can drop a 4TB drive in a Roamio and it formats successfully the whole drive for recording space.


----------



## lessd

Mikeguy said:


> Except that, for those consumers who don't want to DIY and just want to be able to stop by a Best Buy and pick up an external storage box and then just plug it into their TiVo and forget it entirely, a 3TB external storage accessory would be very useful. This includes Roamio OTA, Roamio, and Roamio Plus owners. And even Roamio Pro owners who want more storage besides.
> 
> It just appears that TiVo has dropped the ball, here, and not kept up--no good reason, at this point, it seems to me, not to have a 3TB external storage option along with the current 1TB option. (And, I assume, any needed involvement from TiVo would need be only minimal, in the process.)


How many more TiVos would be sold if TiVo had WD 3Tb external drive ? I don't think TiVo itself get any money from your purchase of the WD external drive, and if you don't want DIY solution, just go to *WeaKnees*, not too hard a job. 
At this point in the product life I don't see TiVo spending any time for any more external drives.


----------



## Mikeguy

lessd said:


> How many more TiVos would be sold if TiVo had WD 3Tb external drive ?


Well, I guess that that could be said about so many individual TiVo features. But any and all enhancements only inures to the benefit of the TiVo set as a whole.


> I don't think TiVo itself get any money from your purchase of the WD external drive, and if you don't want DIY solution, just go to *WeaKnees*, not too hard a job.


But, again, TiVo benefits by having enhanced capabilities, if not from a direct payment from WD. And given the ease by which this all might be accomplished (if that indeed is the case), I would think that it might be something for TiVo to consider and adopt.

As to WeaKnees, as far as I know, it doesn't sell an external TiVo expander. And some people don't want to open up the TiVo case (for warranty reasons or otherwise) and put in a new drive (or have someone else do so). They would prefer an easy alternative.


----------



## lessd

Mikeguy said:


> As to WeaKnees, as far as I know, it doesn't sell an external TiVo expander. And some people don't want to open up the TiVo case (for warranty reasons or otherwise) and put in a new drive (or have someone else do so). They would prefer an easy alternative.


They do have an external expander, but I don't know if they will or can sell it without their Roamio.

*TiVo Roamio Plus - Upgraded to 12TB Drive for up to 1930 HD hours
Six cable/FiOS tuners plus streaming capability built right into the box! 180-day parts/labor warranty from weaKnees. Includes one 6TB internal drive and one 6TB external drive*.


----------



## dianebrat

lessd said:


> They do have an external expander, but I don't know if they will or can sell it without their Roamio.
> 
> *TiVo Roamio Plus - Upgraded to 12TB Drive for up to 1930 HD hours
> Six cable/FiOS tuners plus streaming capability built right into the box! 180-day parts/labor warranty from weaKnees. Includes one 6TB internal drive and one 6TB external drive*.


The upgrades section of Weaknees has multiple external options that can be added to an existing system, however they are not plug and play, you need to send your Tivo to them for the upgrade.

up next... the inevitable "if weakness can do it why can't we reverse engineer it?" comments from folks not following along with the discussions on this in the past.


----------



## Mikeguy

Yep, that being the issue--it's a WeaKnees solution requiring WeaKnees installation (along with other storage purchase and installation), not a general retail product availability.


----------



## b-ball-fanatic

Not to veer too far off this thread's topic, but is there any word on when TiVo's new "Monster" is coming and how much it's expected to cost?


----------



## JamieP

b-ball-fanatic said:


> Not to veer too far off this thread's topic, but is there any word on when TiVo's new "Monster" is coming and how much it's expected to cost?


The press release said 1st quarter 2015 at ~ $5000. I haven't seen an update since then. It doesn't seem that they meet the 1st quarter retail availability goal.


----------



## zerdian1

b-ball-fanatic said:


> Not to veer too far off this thread's topic, but is there any word on when TiVo's new "Monster" is coming and how much it's expected to cost?


The TiVo Roamio MEGA is 26TB Rack Mount with RAID hot swappable drives for $5K with 6 tuners. Should be out soon.

The TiVo ULTRA is ultra High Resolution 4K video, it is probably also going to be another Roamio and it is also probably going to have just 6 tuners. this is probably going to be towards the end of the year for Christmas.


----------



## zerdian1

I want to add soomthing more than the 1 TB that TiVo still sells but is no longer being continued by WD.
G-Force has several 2TB, 3TB, 4TB and a new 5TB drive without a fan.
I plan to add the new 5TB G-Force drive and new eSATA cable.

Will my new Roamio PRO with 3TB internal drive support more than a 3TB external drive?


----------



## jmbach

Look back about 9 posts for your answer.


----------



## b-ball-fanatic

Or in the thread you started earlier today for this question......


----------



## lessd

zerdian1 said:


> .
> 
> Will my new Roamio PRO with 3TB internal drive support more than a 3TB external drive?


No, that was easy.


----------



## telemark

As of April 2015. Recommended max drive sizes for Roamio-

Internal
3TB "plug and play"
4TB using a pre-imaged drive or computer

External
1TB official WD DVR expander
Any other external drives (including larger ones) generally requires a married (synchronized) drive pair.

5TB / 6TB internal is being worked on by a few individuals. This will probably be the next breakthrough.

WK is the current record holder with a 6TB+6TB drive pair.


----------



## zerdian1

lessd said:


> No, that was easy.


WHY?

Will my Roamio PRO with 3TB internal storage support off the shelf 2TB and 3TB DVRS or 
are we limited to the WD eSATA 1TB is the only one tested a long time ago by TiVo and 
WD has said they have discontinued eSATA drives and only ones left are those in someones inventory.

I am thinking of testing a G-Force 4TB or 5 TB off the shelf drive and just see if it works.
it is working on other non TiVo DVRs.

IS THERE SOME ARCHITECTURAL/ADDRESS REASON WHY A 3TB ROAMIO PRO CAN ONLY HAVE A 1TB, 2TB OR 3TB EXTERNAL STORAGE AND NO MORE?

My 500GB Roamio supported 2x or a 1TB external storage.


----------



## jmbach

zerdian1 said:


> WHY?
> 
> Will my Roamio PRO with 3TB internal storage support off the shelf 2TB and 3TB DVRS or
> are we limited to the WD eSATA 1TB is the only one tested a long time ago by TiVo and
> WD has said they have discontinued eSATA drives and only ones left are those in someones inventory.
> 
> I am thinking of testing a G-Force 4TB or 5 TB off the shelf drive and just see if it works.
> it is working on other non TiVo DVRs.
> 
> IS THERE SOME ARCHITECTURAL/ADDRESS REASON WHY A 3TB ROAMIO PRO CAN ONLY HAVE A 1TB, 2TB OR 3TB EXTERNAL STORAGE AND NO MORE?
> 
> My 500GB Roamio supported 2x or a 1TB external storage.


For your explanation I again point you  here.


----------



## atmuscarella

zerdian1 said:


> WHY?
> 
> Will my Roamio PRO with 3TB internal storage support off the shelf 2TB and 3TB DVRS or
> are we limited to the WD eSATA 1TB is the only one tested a long time ago by TiVo and
> WD has said they have discontinued eSATA drives and only ones left are those in someones inventory.
> 
> I am thinking of testing a G-Force 4TB or 5 TB off the shelf drive and just see if it works.
> it is working on other non TiVo DVRs.
> 
> IS THERE SOME ARCHITECTURAL/ADDRESS REASON WHY A 3TB ROAMIO PRO CAN ONLY HAVE A 1TB, 2TB OR 3TB EXTERNAL STORAGE AND NO MORE?
> 
> My 500GB Roamio supported 2x or a 1TB external storage.


The "WHY" is simple - because that is the way TiVo made it.

No matter how many times people keep asking - the answer is still the same the only off the self external storage that will work with a TiVo Roamio as a plug and play unit is the one 1TB Western Digital unit supported by TiVo.

If someone wants something else the only option today is from Weakness and it requires they have your Roamio in hand to marry their custom external drive to the units internal drive. If you are willing to pay Weakness you can get up to a 6TB internal and 6TB external for a total of 12TBs.


----------



## Mikeguy

Isn't it kind of funny that the internal drive in the Roamio can be replaced almost at the level of plug-and-play, while that isn't the case for the DVR Expander? Admittedly, though, the Expander tech. is from an earlier generation.


----------



## dianebrat

Mikeguy said:


> Isn't it kind of funny that the internal drive in the Roamio can be replaced almost at the level of plug-and-play, while that isn't the case for the DVR Expander? Admittedly, though, the Expander tech. is from an earlier generation.





atmuscarella said:


> The "WHY" is simple - because that is the way TiVo made it.
> 
> No matter how many times people keep asking - the answer is still the same the only off the self external storage that will work with a TiVo Roamio as a plug and play unit is the one 1TB Western Digital unit supported by TiVo.


Wanting a different answer won't make it so, Tivo has made zero efforts to introduce a bigger expander, my suspicion is because it's not a good solution as we've found out since it's another point of failure with the striping method they use.

Their answer is increased internal storage and it's clear that's where they've focused. The home consumer is NOT their primary market anymore, we're their testbed. They may very well introduce another solution in the future and they may grow past the current 3TB internal limit they have (they did pass the 1.2TB in the S3 eventually)


----------



## Mikeguy

dianebrat said:


> The home consumer is NOT their primary market anymore . . . .


Who is?


----------



## atmuscarella

Mikeguy said:


> Who is?


TiVo has more subs through MSOs than stand alone users (us). And MSO subs are growing while stand alone sub numbers seem to be treading water at best. Not sure if that makes the MSOs TiVo's primary market or not - would have to know more about the $$s.


----------



## samccfl99

dianebrat said:


> Tivo has made zero efforts to introduce a bigger expander, my suspicion is because it's not a good solution as we've found out since it's another point of failure with the striping method they use.


*OMG,* we agree?

They have very little staff, make a ton of money and give us not much (bet you do not agree with this statement). *HEY!!! LOL*


----------



## HarperVision

samccfl99 said:


> OMG, we agree?
> 
> They have very little staff, make a ton of money and give us not much (bet you do not agree with this statement). HEY!!! LOL


This is one reason why you're so confusing to understand around here. You just completely contradicted yourself in the exact same post.

You said "OMG we agree......" Then said in the very next paragraph and sentence ".......(bet you do not agree with this statement)."


----------



## dianebrat

samccfl99 said:


> They have very little staff, *make a ton of money *and give us not much (bet you do not agree with this statement). *HEY!!! LOL*


So you think Tivo makes a ton of money? I think all of us would wish that were true, but it's not, they struggle on a regular basis.


----------



## merleau79

I read through all of the posts so I don't believe that I missed it. If I add a new internal 3TB drive will my recordings on the old drive be deleted? In other words, after I put the new drive in and there are recordings on the old drive that I want to watch can I reinstall it to watch those shows? Thanks.


----------



## jcthorne

merleau79 said:


> I read through all of the posts so I don't believe that I missed it. If I add a new internal 3TB drive will my recordings on the old drive be deleted? In other words, after I put the new drive in and there are recordings on the old drive that I want to watch can I reinstall it to watch those shows? Thanks.


No.


----------



## HarperVision

merleau79 said:


> I read through all of the posts so I don't believe that I missed it. If I add a new internal 3TB drive will my recordings on the old drive be deleted? In other words, after I put the new drive in and there are recordings on the old drive that I want to watch can I reinstall it to watch those shows? Thanks.





jcthorne said:


> No.


But just use TiVo desktop or KMTTG to save what you can to your PC. Copy protected shows won't transfer unfortunately and if you're on time warner that means just about everything except local broadcast networks.


----------



## telemark

merleau79 said:


> I read through all of the posts so I don't believe that I missed it. If I add a new internal 3TB drive will my recordings on the old drive be deleted? In other words, after I put the new drive in and there are recordings on the old drive that I want to watch can I reinstall it to watch those shows? Thanks.


I'd call this an odd scenario, but i think the answer is Yes.
That is if you want to swap drives back and forth, they will play, when put back in the same box.

You have to remove or insert the cable card as well to preserve the pairing unless you've done some drive prep to have all the pairing keys to be the same.


----------



## dougdingle

telemark said:


> I'd call this an odd scenario, but i think the answer is Yes.
> That is if you want to swap drives back and forth, they will play, when put back in the same box.
> 
> You have to remove or insert the cable card as well to preserve the pairing unless you've done some drive prep to have all the pairing keys to be the same.


I agree. I did not understand the "No" answer.

As for maintaining cable card pairing, what is required in this scenario?

If the old drive was already paired (otherwise there would not be any recordings), and the new drive is also paired (by calling the cableco), why does there have to be removal/insertion at the drive swap?

Does something in the cc change when it's 'married' to a new drive? I thought they were read-only once inside the TiVo unless the cableco was writing new info.

I did the drive swap thing many times in my old S3, and never a problem. Is the Roamio different in that regard?


----------



## telemark

Different Series might be different. The Tivo SW is responsible for identifying itself and it's possible to have a stable ID independent of what's going on with the drive if they want to program it that way. 

In general, once paired, the drive has a stored value and the card itself has a stored value. They need to be the same all the time if they're in communication or it'll throw out the saved value.

To make keys the same when they wouldn't normally, it should be possible to clone the two drives before starting to use it.

That is when putting the 2nd blank/new drive into production, get it cloned instead of doing a Roamio blank drive self-initialization.


----------



## gespears

HarperVision said:


> If you're on time warner that means just about everything except local broadcast networks.


Not just Time Warner, Cox in Phoenix is that way as well. It really sucks. Only broadcast shows. And not even all of them it seems.


----------



## merleau79

Thanks for all of the replies. I was confused as well as to why switching drives would erase the shows. I record a lot of sports and I like to save them if it was a good game. Since external drives are horrible (I had one awhile back before cloud service and it died) I figured this would be a good option.

TWC policies are horrible. Even while using Tivo online on my home network most of the shows can't be watched. I don't see how it is any different than watching shows on the app.


----------



## sysdawg

Captainbob said:


> Will this drive work with the Roamio Basic cause it is much cheaper than the one Tivo sells? http://www.amazon.com/Book-Expander-eSATA-External-Drive/dp/B003MVZ60S


After reading through this thread, I'm not going to go the external route myself, but it struck me that if one wanted to save a few more bucks, it might be possible to buy a WD10EURX and an external 3.5" eSATA enclosure for it...total would be around $85 on newegg.


----------



## dianebrat

sysdawg said:


> After reading through this thread, I'm not going to go the external route myself, but it struck me that if one wanted to save a few more bucks, it might be possible to buy a WD10EURX and an external 3.5" eSATA enclosure for it...total would be around $85 on newegg.


Nope, there are only specific WD drive models and firmware whitelisted for the Tivo to use.


----------



## m6255

mdscott said:


> Up to 3TB
> 
> michael


I believe as of Fall 2015 you can put at least a 12 GB hard drive in place of stock hard drive. 
Wee knees is installing and selling 2,4,6 and 12 GB hard drives and yes the firmware in Romeo just sets up the new drive. 
I have a Tivo Premier (2tuner ) that I upgraded painfully to a 2 TB drive. I have a new Tivo plus on its way along with 2 TiVo Mini's! I also have a Premier (4) with 4 tuners. I have tons of movies and shows on them any way of transferring them short of the old fashioned way of hooking the new TiVo Romeo up to my current Network and transferring them one by one? Easily a good days job! ?


----------



## dianebrat

m6255 said:


> I believe as of Fall 2015 you can put at least a 12 GB hard drive in place of stock hard drive.
> Wee knees is installing and selling 2,4,6 and 12 GB hard drives and yes the firmware in Romeo just sets up the new drive.
> I have a Tivo Premier (2tuner ) that I upgraded painfully to a 2 TB drive. I have a new Tivo plus on its way along with 2 TiVo Mini's! I also have a Premier (4) with 4 tuners. I have tons of movies and shows on them any way of transferring them short of the old fashioned way of hooking the new TiVo Romeo up to my current Network and transferring them one by one? Easily a good days job! ?


A: You're quoting a 2 year old comment
B: We've talked at length about Weaknees in this this thread already, really we have.
C: For a user installed plug and play in a Roamio the limit is STILL 3TB.
D: Network is still the way to transfer, but that's not what this thread is about.


----------



## kcossabo

OK , this is so stupid. With my Bolt,

1) open the box, and put in a HD (at least to 3TB) no issue
2) do the 'safe' 'proper' external storage, you MUST use one of TiVo's eSATA?

ahhhhhhh Life the TiVo way


----------



## aaronwt

kcossabo said:


> OK , this is so stupid. With my Bolt,
> 
> 1) open the box, and put in a HD (at least to 3TB) no issue
> 2) do the 'safe' 'proper' external storage, you MUST use one of TiVo's eSATA?
> 
> ahhhhhhh Life the TiVo way


But only one of those methods is approved and doesn't void the warranty.


----------

