# Can I swap cable cards without losing recordings?



## fis (Feb 7, 2017)

My Bolt is has been happily acting as my Verizon FiOS set top box for years, and at the moment has over tons of recordings stored.

Recently we started seeing pixelation on certain live TV channels (oddly on only about a dozen channels -- most are fine). The Verizon tech said that if the coax connections are tight, then it's probably a bad cable card, and shipped me a replacement.

Now if I swap out the cable card, *will I lose my recordings*? Doesn't seem like I should, but I want to double check.

_(FYI the Bolt is using a 4TB WD Red hard drive at around 80% capacity, so I ruled that out as the problem -- I don't think the hard drive is terribly stressed)_


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

No, your recordings are perfectly safe. But don’t expect a different card to fix your pixelation issue. The card has nothing to do with picture quality. That’s a signal strength/quality or connection issue. If the problem goes away after the swap, it was simply due to you moving the box around, affecting the coax connection.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

While switching the card won't affect recordings, don't do it. If you do you will have to deal with pairing the new card- sometimes a laborious effort. Something else is causing the pixilation. Have you checked the signal strength as being too weak or too strong? Check diagnostics.


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## fis (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks @UCLABB and @mdavej! I am aware of the hassle of pairing a new card and wasn't looking forward to that, and suspected that the Verizon rep might just be grasping at straws, but also don't want to pay them to come to my house, and I'm not that technical -- What does it mean to check diagnostics? 
(In terms of coax cable, here's what I know: there is a maze of coax that was installed in 2010 going from my FiOS demarc point to a cabinet full of splitters, and then into the wall. I have no idea which cable leads where, but we are only only using one of the jacks where the TiVO box is, in another room.)


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

The "cabinet full of splitters" is the first thing I'd try to rework. Every split cuts the signal power by the number of total outputs on the splitter. In a 2 way splitter, each output is only 50% of the input. In an 8-way split, each is only 12.5%, or an 87.5% loss. So you can see what a huge impact that has. Ideally, you'd cut it down to only the outlets you actually use. Since you only actually use one, then you only need a direct connection, or a single coupling to the outlet you use, no splits at all. You'll have to figure this out by trial and error. If you can't, you'll need the FIOS tech or an electrician to do it for you.

First thing I would do is call FIOS back and tell them, "My picture is terrible. Come fix it." If they respond with some cable card nonsense, call back and talk to a different person until you get an intelligent one. The biggest problem you might encounter is them not taking any responsibility for the wiring/connections past the demarc. This is within their rights, so tread lightly.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

fis said:


> Thanks @UCLABB and @mdavej! I am aware of the hassle of pairing a new card and wasn't looking forward to that, and suspected that the Verizon rep might just be grasping at straws, but also don't want to pay them to come to my house, and I'm not that technical -- What does it mean to check diagnostics?
> (In terms of coax cable, here's what I know: there is a maze of coax that was installed in 2010 going from my FiOS demarc point to a cabinet full of splitters, and then into the wall. I have no idea which cable leads where, but we are only only using one of the jacks where the TiVO box is, in another room.)


Before messing with all the splitters, check the signal strength. TiVo, settings and messages, help, account information, diagnostics. Scroll to see signal strength and SNR for each tuner.


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## fis (Feb 7, 2017)

UCLABB said:


> Before messing with all the splitters, check the signal strength. TiVo, settings and messages, help, account information, diagnostics. Scroll to see signal strength and SNR for each tuner.


Ooh, that's handy. Thank you @UCLABB. Didn't know that was a thing hidden there under HELP. Here's what I found. Now of course somebody needs to explain to me what it means :tonguewink:

Tuner 0: Signal Strength 67% | SNR: 27
Tuner 1: Signal Strength 70% | SNR: 28

Tuner 2: Signal Strength 67% | SNR: 27

Tuner 3: Signal Strength 67% | SNR: 27


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

fis said:


> Ooh, that's handy. Thank you @UCLABB. Didn't know that was a thing hidden there under HELP. Here's what I found. Now of course somebody needs to explain to me what it means :tonguewink:
> 
> Tuner 0: Signal Strength 67% | SNR: 27
> Tuner 1: Signal Strength 70% | SNR: 28
> ...


And there you go. Signal is definitely too weak. It should be at least in the mid 80s. I guess it's time to play around with eliminating splitters if possible.
However, if you have not had issues in the past, there may be an issue with the FIOS cabling somewhere before it gets into your house. So if playing with the splitters doesn't work, time to get FIOS to fix the weak signal.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

UCLABB said:


> And there you go. Signal is definitely too weak. It should be at least in the mid 80s. I guess it's time to play around with eliminating splitters if possible.
> However, if you have not had issues in the past,* there may be an issue with the FIOS cabling somewhere before it gets into your house. So if playing with the splitters doesn't work, time to get FIOS to fix the weak signal.*


Technically there is no weak signal outside the house with FiOS, it's fiber until it gets inside to the ONT, weak signal strength in a FiOS installation is always inside the house.
The weak external signal is purely a CableCO "feature"


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## fis (Feb 7, 2017)

So I had a variety of unused coax cables and played around with this:

swapped out the coax cable from the modem to the splitter
swapped out the coax cable from the ONT to the splitter
swapped out the splitter itself
I couldn't replace the coax that's inside the walls, so I disconnected my Bolt (and it's hard drive) from the media cabinet and moved it to the room where the FiOS ONT and router are, connected the Bolt to a small TV, and

ran a different coax cable from the splitter to the Bolt (it couldn't get quite close enough so I had to connect two coax cables together with a connector)
Signal strength remained at 67% in ALL cases, with pixelation on those same channels.

So FINALLY like an idiot I took Verizon's advice and swapped out the cable card _(and in fact, it was the nightmare we all knew it would be... 2 hours with tech support trying to get it to work, plus I somehow lost 5 channels that they can't figure out how to get back)_.

And signal strength is now 70%, with the exact same pixelation on those same dozen-or-so channels.

So I'm at a loss and agreed to schedule a Verizon tech visit. @dianebrat it has to be outside the house, right? Will they somehow still say it's my problem and charge me $100?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

It's not unheard of for a FIOS signal to be too strong. But that doesn't exactly jive with your readings. However, I think an attenuator would be worth a shot, just in case, before you risk spending a larger amount of money.


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## fis (Feb 7, 2017)

Could it be the ONT device? I suppose it's a blessing that I lost 5 channels and they couldn't figure out how to get them back on, because that's one reason the tech is coming. With luck they'll figure out both issues and not charge me.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

fis said:


> @dianebrat it has to be outside the house, right? Will they somehow still say it's my problem and charge me $100?


It CAN'T be outside the house, the coax signal doesn't exist there in a FiOS installation, and I really doubt it's the ONT, so this would mean a service charge for coax repair in the house.

If it were me I would take the coax coming out of the ONT, put a simple 2 port splitter on it, one leg goes ONLY to the Gateway, and other directly into the Tivo and read your signal strength.


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## fis (Feb 7, 2017)

Thanks. So I moved the Bolt next to the ONT and ran the Coax direct to the Bolt (just disconnected the modem). I got a slightly cleaner-looking signal on the affected channels -- the pixelation seemed diminished -- but it's not gone, and the signal still reads as 67%. 

Then I did it like you suggested, with a splitter between the ONT and the Bolt, and the modem connected. Same thing. 67% signal.

I'm not sure what to make of that, in terms of fixing things. The FiOS guy is scheduled to come in the AM. I'm still missing 5 channels, so ostensibly that's why he's coming. I just don't know how to explain the weak signal or what else to try on my own.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

fis said:


> Thanks. So I moved the Bolt next to the ONT and ran the Coax direct to the Bolt (just disconnected the modem). I got a slightly cleaner-looking signal on the affected channels -- the pixelation seemed diminished -- but it's not gone, and the signal still reads as 67%.
> 
> Then I did it like you suggested, with a splitter between the ONT and the Bolt, and the modem connected. Same thing. 67% signal.
> 
> I'm not sure what to make of that, in terms of fixing things. The FiOS guy is scheduled to come in the AM. I'm still missing 5 channels, so ostensibly that's why he's coming. I just don't know how to explain the weak signal or what else to try on my own.


I had the same situation with my Bolt. It worked fine for years, then a handful of channels were pixelated and the signal strength was low. Verizon insisted it was the cable card, so I swapped it for a new one, which caused no new problems, but didn't help.

A Verizon tech came out and replaced the ONT, and the problem was gone. I think it's pretty likely you have the same ONT problem I did.


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## fis (Feb 7, 2017)

Yep. Turns out same problem as @ThePennyDropped had. Verizon tech was very nice. Before he even walked in the door he said "you probably have an older ONT and when I see that I'm authorized to just replace everything." Replaced the ONT with a new model and the signal jumped to 82%. Sadly, he had to spend another hour coordinating with HQ troubleshooting the problem created by replacing the cable card, but they eventually switched back to the old card and got the 5 channels I'd lost back and running.

Bonus: I'm now getting internet via ethernet instead of MOCA, and can now bypass the Verizon router completely and use my mesh router as it's meant to be used. AND on the way out, he left me with 50 feet of new CAT6 cable and an assortment of connectors. I have certainly never had this kind of positive experience with Verizon before.

Thanks all for your attempts to help.


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