# tivo giveaway at tivo.com



## kuhars5 (Feb 25, 2006)

Tivo.com is giving away tivo units for free all you need to do is sign a comminment


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

But those are SA TiVos


And not DirecTV with TiVo units
Big difference.

Just for kicks... I recommend everyone to go and look at the new pricing for the systems.

The cheapest monthly price now is $13.03 and that is if you pre-pay for 3 years of service.

Also, it looks like they are negating their multiple unit discount....

And remember when I thought $249 was a lot for Lifetime.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

No, the discount is not going away. There is a sticky thread somewhere with the details.

They are sort of, um, forgetting to mention it in their ads and web pages though.

Sneak, underhanded way to make a buck, but that's what TiVo has come to.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> But those are SA TiVos
> 
> And not DirecTV with TiVo units
> Big difference.
> ...





ThreeSoFar said:


> No, the discount is not going away.


Earl, "_ThreeSoFar_" is right the Multiple Unit Discount is not going away, in fact almost nothing is changing except the Lifetime option. But then again, I wouldn't buy a Series 2 now and add a Lifetime subscription, because the Series 2 is almost dead. In about 11 months, you will not even be able to buy a Series 2, because the FCC has forbidden the sale of any device as of March 1, 2007, that only has NTSC tuners, which is the description of the current Series 2, most VCRs, and DVD Recorders. Just three weeks ago, as of March 1, 2006, all TVs with a screen size greater than 26 inches have to have a digital tuner, with or without an analog tuner.

And by the way, even the Lifetime subscription can still be purchased today via a number of retailers by way of a subscription card.

Earl, I really support your posts, but you should read the posts in the regular forum a little more often.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

tbeckner said:


> Earl, "_ThreeSoFar_" is right the Multiple Unit Discount is not going away, in fact almost nothing is changing except the Lifetime option. But then again, I wouldn't buy a Series 2 now and add a Lifetime subscription, because the Series 2 is almost dead. In about 11 months, you will not even be able to buy a Series 2, because the FCC has forbidden the sale of any device as of March 1, 2007, that only has NTSC tuners, which is the description of the current Series 2, most VCRs, and DVD Recorders. Just three weeks ago, as of March 1, 2006, all TVs with a screen size greater than 26 inches have to have a digital tuner, with or without an analog tuner.
> 
> And by the way, even the Lifetime subscription can still be purchased today via a number of retailers by way of a subscription card.
> 
> Earl, I really support your posts, but you should read the posts in the regular forum a little more often.


But I believe the fact that you won't be able to buy an S2, LET ALONE a lifetimed S2, will make it more valuable.

Analog isn't going away that quickly. CATV will continue to support it for years, and set top boxes (cable, satellite) will continue to offer composite out, so the lifetimed TiVo will be an excellent fit for a lot of people's uses.

I'll be looking at eBay in a year or so to see at what price, but I plan on selling for a profit at least two of my lifetimed, upgraded S2 TiVos. As I did with several already, and my two S1 lifetime'd units. (One of those made $480, not quite my money back.)

My two most recent S2s cost me $299 for lifetime plus $105 for an upgraded hard drive. I might lay odds (if anyone wants to bet) that I could get $800 each for them.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Then what is this, when I look at the details for the 16.99 plan:



> Not Eligible for Multi-Service Discount.


I don't mind being wrong. I don't go hang out in the SA forums that much.

If 3 years pre-paid is $469 , what is the current cost for lifetime?


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> The cheapest monthly price now is $13.03 and that is if you pre-pay for 3 years of service.


This is incorrect.



ebonovic said:


> Then what is this, when I look at the details for the 16.99 plan:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is taken out of context.

You can still buy a S2. You can still resubscribe an old S2. Either would still fall under the $12.95 service only plan. Either would also count towards the $6.95 MSD. The bundled plans are one option, not the only option. If you have ONLY two bundled units you will not get the discount for the length of your commitment. After your commitment the units are eligible for either the $12.95 plan or $6.95 plan depending on how many units you have.

let's say I have a SA S2. I pay $12.95 monthly. If I go to Best Buy and buy a box, or get one from Ebay, my service cost on that unit would be $6.95. Now, if I go to tivo.com and get one of the bundled units, THE SUBSCRIPTION ON MY EXISTING BOX drops to $6.95 and the cost for the new box is whatever I have agreed to, until the end of that commitment.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Read the other thread, or at least the top post of it. Sticky, started by TiVoOpsMgr.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

I will do so...

(NOTE: Just for the record, I was basing my comments off what I was seeing at TiVo.com.... If I got it wrong... could you think what an average consumer may think? )


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Okay... I just finished reading the first post of that thread.

Two comments

1) That EXACT post, should be in PDF format on TiVo.com, or a link to it be posted
2) Wholy molly are things getting complicated... If you are this, that that... If you do this, and have this...then this..... 

Basically, I guess my comments above only apply if you are brand spanking new to TiVo INC

My appologizes....


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> Basically, I guess my comments above only apply if you are brand spanking new to TiVo INC


Only if you choose to go with the bundled rate and get your TiVo's from Tivo's website. You can still go to Best Buy and pick up a SA S2, pay for it, and pay the $12.95/6.95 rate today, same as you could last week/month.


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## dshinnick (Jun 6, 2003)

appologizes??

We love ya Earl!!

:O)


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Okay... I just finished reading the first post of that thread.
> 
> Two comments
> 
> ...


Things only get really complicated if you are trying to understand how to mix your existing TiVos with the new 0 upfront cost units. (Or if you are plotting to swap out those S2 units for an S3 unit in less that 1 year.)

Someone who is brand spanking new to TiVo Inc just sees that there is 0 upfront cost, and 1 of 3 monthly costs depending on how long they want to lock their service in for. They don't know about the multi-room discount, so they aren't confused by how the new units map into that. They don't know about TiVo Lifetime Service, so they aren't dismayed that it is gone. They aren't planning to swap the unit out in the middle of their commitment, etc.

Its only for us; who want to know how it all links into every pricing plan that has ever been offered, for every mix of currently owned and planned future TiVos; that this gets really complicated.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 21, 2006)

I'm with Earl - I'm just an average consumer and looking at the Tivo web site it looks like the prices have all gone up considerably. I understand it is just a completely different way to look at it, but expecting the general public to swallow a 3 year commitment with an upfront payment, or a 3 year commitment with $16.95/month payments, or more money for shorter commitments is asking a lot of a new customer.

Pretend you are a completely new customer who has never had Tivo before. You have no idea if you will like the service, so you really don't want to go into a long-term commitment. Given the speed of technology, even 1 year seems like a long time. Would you pay $20/month on top of whatever you are paying for cable or sat service? I wouldn't. I would go for the DVR service offered by my cable or sat provider - it's cheaper and has less required commitment. I guess it may make sense if you are strictly OTA, so you have no other viable options for DVR service other than build your own box. But how many new customers is that? 

I guess I'm not a marketing genius, 'cause I just don't get it...


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

This is a reaction to the complaints that nobody wanted to pay over a hundred bucks upfront for hardware cost + $12.95 / month for new TiVos. So they switched it to 0 upfront and $16.95 / month.

Unfortunately TiVo just can't afford to compete strictly on price against cable company DVRs, because the cable company can afford to price them below break even due to the churn reduction benefits. (Plus they can always raise the cost of cable to cover the difference). TiVo has to get its money directly from the end users (ignoring any minor cash they can generate through ads or marketing data).


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

tbeckner said:


> the FCC has forbidden the sale of any device as of March 1, 2007, that only has NTSC tuners, which is the description of the current Series 2, most VCRs, and DVD Recorders.


i can't believe this. all current DVD recorders and vcrs having to change over next year? That's beyond huge! You mean to tell me all these machines will have to have digital tuners in them? I see increases coming already.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

newsposter said:


> i can't believe this. all current DVD recorders and vcrs having to change over next year? That's beyond huge! You mean to tell me all these machines will have to have digital tuners in them? I see increases coming already.


Starting March 1, 2007, no devices, TVs (of any size), DVD Recorders, VCR, or DVRs can be sold without having a digital tuner. All of the current devices which only contain analog tuners cannot be marketed after March 1, 2007. What I didn't know is what happens to devices already shipped to retailers, but others are saying that on the cutoff dates in the bill, even retailers cannot sell devices with analog tuners.

Starting March 1, 2006 (three weeks ago), all TVs larger than 26 inches have to have digital tuners, they can still have analog tuners, but they have to have digital tuners. I believe this law was signed on February 22, 2006 and was tucked away in the "Deficit Reduction Act of 2005".

Yes, big changes are afoot, in fact the FCC believes that by 2009, most units will no longer have analog tuners, just digital tuners. The FCC also believes that cable companies will likely make the jump from analog to full digital, which will require STB for all units by 2009.

_*RIP the NTSC tuners.*_

As per the FCC:

Receivers with screen sizes 25- 36 -- 50% of a responsible partys units must include DTV tuners effective July 1, 2005; 100% of such units must include DTV tuners effective March 1, 2006;

Receivers with screen sizes 13- 24 -- 100% of all such units must include DTV tuners effective March 1, 2007;

Other devices that receive broadcast television signals (VCRs, digital video recorders, etc.) -- 100% of all such units must include DTV tuners effective March 1, 2007.


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## bnm81002 (Oct 3, 2004)

tbeckner said:


> Starting March 1, 2007, no devices, TVs (of any size), DVD Recorders, VCR, or DVRs can be sold without having a digital tuner. All of the current devices which only contain analog tuners cannot be marketed after March 1, 2007. What I didn't know is what happens to devices already shipped to retailers, but others are saying that on the cutoff dates in the bill, even retailers cannot sell devices with analog tuners.
> 
> Starting March 1, 2006 (three weeks ago), all TVs larger than 26 inches have to have digital tuners, they can still have analog tuners, but they have to have digital tuners. I believe this law was signed on February 22, 2006 and was tucked away in the "Deficit Reduction Act of 2005".
> 
> ...


are there any links for this information? I find it very hard to believe that the FCC are forcing the consumers to buy what they want you to buy and not what you decide to purchase for yourself


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ThreeSoFar said:


> But I believe the fact that you won't be able to buy an S2, LET ALONE a lifetimed S2, will make it more valuable.
> 
> Analog isn't going away that quickly. CATV will continue to support it for years, and set top boxes (cable, satellite) will continue to offer composite out, so the lifetimed TiVo will be an excellent fit for a lot of people's uses.
> 
> ...


For the short term, you are correct, but then again Lifetime subscriptions are still available and will be for a period of time, via subscription cards. And yes, for a short period of time in the near future, there is the possibility that S2's with a Lifetime subscription may be valuable, but then again I believe that window of opportunity is going to be very narrow.

But over the long haul, even the FCC believes that the cable companies will be dropping their analog feeds in the 2009 timeframe, so all S2's would have to be connected to a digital STB to function even on cable, and without a doubt OTA, by 2009, which is now less than three years away.

I don't believe that you can take previous "Lifetime" value history on analog tuner devices and project that type of value response into the digital tuner only future. There is a very good possibility depending upon the responses of the individual companies that analog tuner devices could become BOAT ANCHORS/DOOR STOPS in just a few years, able as soon as 4 or 5 years, even for cable customers.

I would say that it is a gamble and maybe a big gamble to buy a S2 today with an analog tuner and especially as a second device and expect that you would receive the financial return that a "Lifetime" subscription could afford you, which for a secondary device with the FUTURE VALUE OF MONEY factored in currently goes out to a payback in 48 to 50 months.

You do the math and attempt to factor in the effects of all digital tuner devices and all digital video sources feeds and come up with a payback ratio.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

bnm81002 said:


> are there any links for this information? I find it very hard to believe that the FCC are forcing the consumers to buy what they want you to buy and not what you decide to purchase for yourself


Yes there are links, but it has nothing to do with forcing you to buy. The law was signed in February and this has been coming for many years. In fact even before the law was signed in February, the FCC was already forcing the 50% rule, which required at least 50% of the TVs of specific size to have digital tuners.

You can find the links via Goggle. In fact there is has been many news items on the law and digital tuners for years now. None of this information is really new news, its just that many people haven't been getting the message.

I will attempt to find the best links and post some of them to this post.

*FCC Digital Televsion (basic information only)*

*FCC Modifies Digital Tuner Requirements to Advance DTV Transition (all dates moved from July 1 to March 1) (PDF)*

*FCC requires digital tuners for TVs (posted on August 21, 2002, dates changed in previous link above at end of 2005)*

If you want more, just let me know, but as you can see, this is OLD NEWS, only a few parts of the law as described in the August 21, 2002 news posting have changed, like the earlier dates. They moved that dates up from July 1st of that year to March 1st.

There does seem to be a gap in the law about what happens with TVs less than 13 inches in size, but other than that if you go down to Best Buy today to buy a 27 inch tube (CRT) TV it has to have a digital tuner.

And in just 11 months and 1 week everything that is being sold has to have a digital tuner, and I mean everything.

Additional Note:

The FCC has modified their rules to include TVs smaller than 13 inches which will now happen at the same time, on March 1, 2007, see PDF link *FCC Modifies Digital Tuner Requirements to Advance DTV Transition*.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

This reminds me of that crap they tried at best buy a few years back. They put this ridiculous low price on something and the only way to get it was to sign up for 3 years of msn Horsesh*t dial up internet. ( or something to that effect) especialy since at the same time there were free limited dialup accounts and 15 dollar a month cheaper full internet accounts IE: net zero ect


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

kuhars5 said:


> Tivo.com is giving away tivo units for free all you need to do is sign a comminment


HMMMMM!!! this sounds familiar doesnt it. Free after rebate Directivos just sign a commitment. At least D* is only 2 years


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Well, if you go by the law, FCC mandated pure digital TV by, what was it? 1997?

But of course, they kept (and will keep....) pushing that back.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Well, if you go by the law, FCC mandated pure digital TV by, what was it? 1997?
> 
> But of course, they kept (and will keep....) pushing that back.


Actually that was true in the past, but now that the law has finally passed both the Senate and House and signed into law by the President in February, the date is NOW FIRM, and set in stone as February 17, 2009, which is the date when all OTA analog broadcasting has to end.

The digital broadcast date was pushed back by the FCC when it wasnt a law, but now that the law was finally passed and signed, everyone is mandated by law to meet those dates, and the FCC really is no longer in charge of the process. In other words, no more push backs by the FCC on the date.

The following are the mandatory dates for devices to have digital tuners:

March 1, 2006 for all TVs larger than 24 inches.

March 1, 2007 for all TVs (including those less than 13 inches), VCRs, DVD Recorders, and DVRs (which include TiVos), etc.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

Billy Bob Boy said:


> HMMMMM!!! this sounds familiar doesnt it. Free after rebate Directivos just sign a commitment. At least D* is only 2 years


The commitments are for 1 year, 2 years, or 3 years your choice.

If I needed a SA TiVo, I would choose to either to go down to a retailer and buy a unit with a rebate, and buy the service or a Lifetime card from that retailer, or choose the 1 year option, which actually is almost the same as buying and signing up for the service.

Not much has changed, except that it is far easier for new TiVo users to buy a single TiVo. I actually think it is a smart move by TiVo, get the first time users hooked.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

BillyBob_jcv said:


> I'm with Earl - I'm just an average consumer and looking at the Tivo web site it looks like the prices have all gone up considerably. I understand it is just a completely different way to look at it, but expecting the general public to swallow a 3 year commitment with an upfront payment, or a 3 year commitment with $16.95/month payments, or more money for shorter commitments is asking a lot of a new customer.
> 
> Pretend you are a completely new customer who has never had Tivo before. You have no idea if you will like the service, so you really don't want to go into a long-term commitment. Given the speed of technology, even 1 year seems like a long time. Would you pay $20/month on top of whatever you are paying for cable or sat service? I wouldn't. I would go for the DVR service offered by my cable or sat provider - it's cheaper and has less required commitment. I guess it may make sense if you are strictly OTA, so you have no other viable options for DVR service other than build your own box. But how many new customers is that?
> 
> I guess I'm not a marketing genius, 'cause I just don't get it...


Is this not like D* (you can have our DVR for a 2 year commitment) yea it doesnt have the same montly cost but it also dosnt offer the features. IMO


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## restart88 (Mar 9, 2002)

What should not be overlooked in this debate is the factor of MS Vista coming out in Jan. 

While we might like Tivo just fine, someone without any Tivo exposure getting ok DVR functions bundleed into their new Dell just might turn them off to whatever price Tivo wants to charge past Jan.


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## beanpoppa (Jan 7, 2004)

We'll see... The promise of the media center PC has been around for a long time, but never come to true fruition. Gateway started it in 1995, and there have been many attempts since, without any taking hold. People just don't seem to want to use their 'computer' to watch TV. Specialized 'Appliances' like the Tivo have done much better, both functionally and in the market.

My first 'DVR' was my computer with an ATI All-in-Wonder card in 2000. I thought it was great, until I got a TiVo an realized how crappy the PC solution really was. It was cumbersome, unreliable, loud, and missing a lot of features that the Tivo had. And the Tivo was $600 if you included lifetime service, while the PC solution was about $1600, and stuck in my office.



restart88 said:


> What should not be overlooked in this debate is the factor of MS Vista coming out in Jan.
> 
> While we might like Tivo just fine, someone without any Tivo exposure getting ok DVR functions bundleed into their new Dell just might turn them off to whatever price Tivo wants to charge past Jan.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 21, 2006)

IMHO, Media Center PCs are still too big, too noisy, too complex and too expensive to compete against a dedicated box from the sat/cable provider. I would love to have all my digital music, videos & games accessible & streamable from a central file storage location to any TV in my house, but the HW & network bandwidth to do it is more than I want to deal with. 

I think we're in one of those weird technology periods where too many vendors are trying to do too many overlapping functions. Cable, Sat, OTA (and very soon 'net based) - they all want to provide us content. TV Mfrs, SA Tivo, Cable/Sat Content Providers, Media PCs - they all want to provide us dvr services. Even the display devices - plasma, RP, LCD, CRT - many different technologies just for displaying the video. We live in interesting times...


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

tbeckner said:


> Starting March 1, 2007, no devices, TVs (of any size), DVD Recorders, VCR, or DVRs can be sold without having a digital tuner.
> 
> Other devices that receive broadcast television signals (VCRs, digital video recorders, etc.) -- 100% of all such units must include DTV tuners effective March 1, 2007.


The former conflicts with the latter, the latter I believe the actual case, means that TiVo or whomever could make a tunerless recorder or display, rather than build in a digital tuner, although I hope DTV chipsets become commodity components by then.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

newsposter said:


> i can't believe this. all current DVD recorders and vcrs having to change over next year?


Not current units, only devices with OTA tuners sold beginning March 2007 have to tune ATSC. Any vdevice you have now, or will buy before that date, and even after, will work like it always has, if you use it with other than analog OTA.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

classicsat said:


> The former conflicts with the latter, the latter I believe the actual case, means that TiVo or whomever could make a tunerless recorder or display, rather than build in a digital tuner, although I hope DTV chipsets become commodity components by then.


What is meant by both of those statements is that television broadcast receiving equipment (TV of any size, VCR, DVD Recorder, or DVR) sold after March 1, 2007 has to come equipped with an active digital tuner.

As an example, the Series 3 has two analog tuners and two digital tuners, so it will meet the March 1, 2007 restriction. But, the Series 2 Standalone TiVo only has an analog tuner, so it does not meet the March 1, 2007 restriction and cannot be sold after March 1, 2007.

The new Sony 27" Television (CRT/Tube) that was released on March 1, 2006, has both an active analog and digital tuner, which meets the March 1, 2006 Television restriction, for Televisions greater than 24 inches.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

tbeckner said:


> But, the Series 2 only has two analog tuners, so it does not meet the March 1, 2007 restriction and cannot be sold after March 1, 2007.


It ionly has one tuner. Nonetheless, if they ship it without a tuner, they are technically withing the boundaries of the law, since it is no longer a TV receiver, but simply a video recorder.

As an example:
My brother's projector has no tuner whatsoever, so it is compliant with the law now.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

classicsat said:


> It ionly has one tuner. Nonetheless, if they ship it without a tuner, they are technically withing the boundaries of the law, since it is no longer a TV receiver, but simply a video recorder.
> 
> As an example:
> My brother's projector has no tuner whatsoever, so it is compliant with the law now.


You are right, I wrote that wrong, copied too much from another post. You can own a Series 2 Standalone TiVo, but after March 1, 2007 you cannot buy one from a retailer or TiVo, unless they add a digital tuner to it. But since the Series 3 which already has two digital tuners should out long before March 1, 2007, TiVo will just discontinue the Series 2 Standalone TiVo.

And you are right about your brother's projector. Even though some projectors came with tuners, all existing devices are okay, just new devices without digital tuners cannot be sold.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I assume everyone means 'new' equipment right?


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

classicsat said:


> As an example:
> My brother's projector has no tuner whatsoever, so it is compliant with the law now.


Technically your brothers projector does NOT receive a broadcast signal (it is a monitor) therefore it will still be legal to sell ever after the 2007 date. All computer monitors also fall in this category. Both require an external device to receive broadcast signals, it is that device that will require the digital tuner. ATI's All-in-Wonder series of video cards will need a digital tuner


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## JWThiers (Apr 13, 2005)

newsposter said:


> I assume everyone means 'new' equipment right?


Yes new equipment.


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