# Tivo Premiere XL - good upgrade?



## TivoManiac (Dec 20, 2001)

I currently have the Tivo HD XL and am thinking about doing the 30% off deal for a Premire XL. My questions --

1. Have they fixed all the major issues since the product launch? I've read about slowness, etc.

2. Has a recent update enabled the second core? 

3. Is this a worthwhile upgrade for me? Or, should I wait until the next revision? 

4. I do a fair amount of YouTube video watching. Is it faster on the Premier than the HD?

Thanks!


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

TivoManiac said:


> I currently have the Tivo HD XL and am thinking about doing the 30% off deal for a Premire XL. My questions --
> 
> 1. Have they fixed all the major issues since the product launch? I've read about slowness, etc.
> 
> ...


1. No. While better, the new HD interface in the latest 14.5 version is still laggy and buggy as hell.
2. No.
3. Maybe. Personally, if I had it to do over again, I'd wait. The software is so crappy and unfinished now, unless you have a dead TiVo and MUST buy now, you can't help but come out ahead by waiting with what you have already.
4. Probably faster. The machine is capable of a faster connection, but it depends on the specifics of your internet setup.


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## rogmatic (Sep 17, 2009)

I would not upgrade unless you need a second box. My Premiere works just fine, but it doesn't have many features that are missing on the HD. I suspect that YouTube is faster - especially with the N adapter (if you use wireless), but my HD works pretty well in that area as well.


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## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

If you are planning to buy a 2nd Tivo to add to another TV then buy the Premiere. If you are considering replacing your THDXL, then I wouldn't do it. 

I have had my THD (with 1TB upgrade) for a year. I just added a TP (with 2 TB upgrade) in order to add a Tivo to the bedroom (moved the THD to the bedroom, installed the TP in the fam room.) Glad I have 2 Tivos now but replacing the THD would not have been worth the cost for me.

$.02


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

TivoManiac said:


> I currently have the Tivo HD XL and am thinking about doing the 30% off deal for a Premire XL. My questions --
> 
> 1. Have they fixed all the major issues since the product launch? I've read about slowness, etc.
> 
> ...


Go for it! You can always run the Premiere in SD menu mode if you don't like the HD menus, and you'll benefit from the noticeably faster SD menu speeds. You'll also have the new platform that will expand and improve over time, whereas the older models will stagnate.


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

If you have the hdxl I would wait unless you adding a second tivo. Right now the Hd menus are slow and buggy. It might take 1 or more updates to correct the the slownest. I had a s3 and if I had to over I would not bought the premiere just for the little more speed.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

I have to agree with the others. I am still on an HD (and obviously monitoring/watching the Premiere closely). I was going to upgrade to a Premiere, but it really isn't compelling. I don't care about HD menus. I don't MRT/MRV. So about the only thing left is that it has more storage space. But for that, I would have to give up hundreds of dollars and risk getting something unstable. 

If you have a working HD, my advice is to just wait, unless you really need faster multi-room/TiVo transfers or are adding an ADDITIONAL TiVo.


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## KenVa (Aug 31, 2005)

I'm looking at putting my Premiere up for sale and picking up one of the older HD XL models that are now really discounted. At least I can upgrade the disk myself to 2TB on one of those. I don't really see much of an advantage to the new Premiere.


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## TivoManiac (Dec 20, 2001)

Thanks for all of your comments. I think I'll wait.


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## will2be1 (Apr 20, 2010)

I am in a similar situation. I own a premiere, and am happy with it, but it doesn't feel like an upgrade from my THD. I have been racking my brain as to whether to buy another premiere or moxi. Is it possible that 3 tuners will be enabled on the premiere? At this point 3 tuners and the extender feature (which would possibly allow me to get rid of one cable box) seems like a real upgrade. Are there any features that will be added to the premiere in the near future (other than pandora)?


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## caddyroger (Mar 15, 2005)

will2be1 said:


> I am in a similar situation. I own a premiere, and am happy with it, but it doesn't feel like an upgrade from my THD. I have been racking my brain as to whether to buy another premiere or moxi. Is it possible that 3 tuners will be enabled on the premiere? At this point 3 tuners and the extender feature (which would possibly allow me to get rid of one cable box) seems like a real upgrade. Are there any features that will be added to the premiere in the near future (other than pandora)?


The premiere does not have 3 tuners so it impossible for tivo to enabled. If I knew more about Moxi when I bought my premiere and was not in to downloading and removing ads I might have bought a moxie.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

will2be1 said:


> Are there any features that will be added to the premiere in the near future (other than pandora)?


Your guess is as good as anyone's at this point. I think they will have their hands full for at least 6 months (probably much longer) just trying to fix issues and update the menus.

Compelling features that would lead me to upgrade (after everything existing is fixed) would include (in priority order):

1) The ability to backup (and restore) all my settings and configurations to a USB device (like a flash drive) so it is not lost when the unit fails or is replaced.
2) All HD menus that are at least as fast as an HD's SD menus *AND* are controllable so I don't have to look at anything animated. AND without losing the option for the old SD menus.
3) More and better video file playback formats (see #4).
4) Ability to transfer video from, or at least play from, a USB device (like a flash drive)
5) Far better/newer Netflix client.
6) Software based "tuning adapter" so that stupid thing isn't required.
7) DNLA streaming.
8) Ability to transfer video TO a USB device (like a flash drive)
9) Web browser.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

TivoManiac said:


> I currently have the Tivo HD XL and am thinking about doing the 30% off deal for a Premire XL. My questions --
> 
> 1. Have they fixed all the major issues since the product launch? I've read about slowness, etc.
> 
> ...


No. At least not until they deliver the product as promised.


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## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

KenVa said:


> I'm looking at putting my Premiere up for sale and picking up one of the older HD XL models that are now really discounted. At least I can upgrade the disk myself to 2TB on one of those. I don't really see much of an advantage to the new Premiere.


Why not just upgrade your Premiere to 2TB? I did it to mine out of the box with a dvr-dude unit and it's operating flawlessly.

As an aside to respond to others' comments:
Since I've just put my Premiere online in the past 2 weeks and was not subjected to earlier versions of the software (currently 14.5* for mine), I was not subjected to issues that others have voiced. I find the HD menu fine and rather snappy. Maybe the Hitachi drive I installed that runs at 7200 rpm has had a positive effect on that...don't know but response time certainly would be quicker than the 5400 rpm units. If the issues that crxssi mentioned were in place, the Premiere would be much more compelling. Otherwise, I chose the Premiere over another THD in order to stay as close to the cutting edge as possible...and I don't regret the decision. BUT, I would not replace a THD with a TP just for the sake of upgrade...just not as much difference at this moment.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

windsurfdog said:


> Why not just upgrade your Premiere to 2TB? I did it to mine out of the box with a dvr-dude unit and it's operating flawlessly.
> 
> As an aside to respond to others' comments:
> Since I've just put my Premiere online in the past 2 weeks and was not subjected to earlier versions of the software (currently 14.5* for mine), I was not subjected to issues that others have voiced. I find the HD menu fine and rather snappy. Maybe the Hitachi drive I installed that runs at 7200 rpm has had a positive effect on that...don't know but response time certainly would be quicker than the 5400 rpm units. If the issues that crxssi mentioned were in place, the Premiere would be much more compelling. Otherwise, I chose the Premiere over another THD in order to stay as close to the cutting edge as possible...and I don't regret the decision. BUT, I would not replace a THD with a TP just for the sake of upgrade...just not as much difference at this moment.


I see no difference in speed between my upgraded Hitachi drive Premieres or my Premieres with the stock drives. They seem to both be just as fast.


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## bananaman (Jul 18, 2005)

I looked at PassMark results before buying an upgrade drive for my TiVo Premiere. The scores are:

487: Western Digital WD3200AVVS <- 320GB stock
453: Hitachi HUA722020ALA330 <- 2TB upgrade
628: Western Digital WD20EVDS <- 2TB upgrade

As you can see the stock Western Digital PassMarks about as fast as the 2TB Hitachi, which corresponds to what you are seeing. The 2TB Western Digital benchmarks faster (that's the one I went with).


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

windsurfdog said:


> Why not just upgrade your Premiere to 2TB? I did it to mine out of the box with a dvr-dude unit and it's operating flawlessly.
> 
> As an aside to respond to others' comments:
> Since I've just put my Premiere online in the past 2 weeks and was not subjected to earlier versions of the software (currently 14.5* for mine), I was not subjected to issues that others have voiced. I find the HD menu fine and rather snappy. Maybe the Hitachi drive I installed that runs at 7200 rpm has had a positive effect on that...don't know but response time certainly would be quicker than the 5400 rpm units. If the issues that crxssi mentioned were in place, the Premiere would be much more compelling. Otherwise, I chose the Premiere over another THD in order to stay as close to the cutting edge as possible...and I don't regret the decision. BUT, I would not replace a THD with a TP just for the sake of upgrade...just not as much difference at this moment.


On a TiVo, all you're buying with a 7200 RPM drive is more heat in the unit. TiVos are designed to work the same with a 5400 or 7200, so the 7200 just adds heat, which is undesirable in an enclosed space. There's a reason they ship with 5400 RPM drives - cooler performance, sometimes substantially.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

curiousgeorge said:


> On a TiVo, all you're buying with a 7200 RPM drive is more heat in the unit. TiVos are designed to work the same with a 5400 or 7200, so the 7200 just adds heat, which is undesirable in an enclosed space. There's a reason they ship with 5400 RPM drives - cooler performance, sometimes substantially.


Correct. And a faster drive will do *nothing* for the typical "performance" of a DVR. A user is not waiting for files to be read or written before doing something. It is not quite like using a home computer. On a DVR, files are streamed, slowly, to or from the drive on a continuous basis. It is a real-time process. It can either keep up or not. If not, then a show will be ruined on recording or playback. It will not be degraded or "slow", it either works or doesn't.

Most of the UI SHOULD be in memory already, so it will see no difference. It COULD have a small effect on things in the UI that are cached on disk and not in memory, but it would probably be too small to matter in real life.

As we know, the TiVo HD menus were not caching things AT ALL there for a while, making for a really miserable experience for some people.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

bananaman said:


> I looked at PassMark results before buying an upgrade drive for my TiVo Premiere. The scores are:
> 
> 487: Western Digital WD3200AVVS <- 320GB stock
> 453: Hitachi HUA722020ALA330 <- 2TB upgrade
> ...


Are you seeing any difference?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

crxssi said:


> Correct. And a faster drive will do *nothing* for the typical "performance" of a DVR. A user is not waiting for files to be read or written before doing something. It is not quite like using a home computer. On a DVR, files are streamed, slowly, to or from the drive on a continuous basis. It is a real-time process. It can either keep up or not. If not, then a show will be ruined on recording or playback. It will not be degraded or "slow", it either works or doesn't.


I think there may be a grey area here. I suspect that some of the hard drives fitted in the stock Premieres have borderline performance and barely keep up! As the disk fills up and gets more and more fragmented, the seek times increase. My original Premiere XL worked fine for a couple of months until I filled the disk to around 80% utilized. Then, I started getting freezes as I was playing back a show with 2 other shows recording and a download started! The TiVo would come back, then reboot about 10 secs later!

The problem got progressively worse. Soon it would freeze and reboot while playing back a show with 1 other show recording and a download started. That progressed to freezing while playing back a show with or without a download starting. TiVo ended up replacing the unit. I'm at 90% full now and thankfully, so far, no freeze, resume, reboot issues yet!

Putting in a faster drive with quicker seek times won't speed up the TiVo at all. However, it may lessen the incidence of these freeze and reboots! To be strictly honest, the software should be able to cope with buffer under-runs and over-flows gracefully. Playbacks, recordings and downloads would have to wait while the buffers catch up, which would lead to stutters in performance, but the DVR shouldn't have to reboot to recover!


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

curiousgeorge said:


> On a TiVo, all you're buying with a 7200 RPM drive is more heat in the unit. TiVos are designed to work the same with a 5400 or 7200, so the 7200 just adds heat, which is undesirable in an enclosed space. There's a reason they ship with 5400 RPM drives - cooler performance, sometimes substantially.


I replaced my stock Tivo drive with a DVR dude 2TB Hitachi and the temperature stayed exactly the same at 39 degrees C, so I don't buy the speed = heat theory.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> I think there may be a grey area here. I suspect that some of the hard drives fitted in the stock Premieres have borderline performance and barely keep up! As the disk fills up and gets more and more fragmented, the seek times increase. My original Premiere XL worked fine for a couple of months until I filled the disk to around 80% utilized. Then, I started getting freezes as I was playing back a show with 2 other shows recording and a download started! The TiVo would come back, then reboot about 10 secs later!
> 
> The problem got progressively worse. Soon it would freeze and reboot while playing back a show with 1 other show recording and a download started. That progressed to freezing while playing back a show with or without a download starting. TiVo ended up replacing the unit. I'm at 90% full now and thankfully, so far, no freeze, resume, reboot issues yet!
> 
> Putting in a faster drive with quicker seek times won't speed up the TiVo at all. However, it may lessen the incidence of these freeze and reboots! To be strictly honest, the software should be able to cope with buffer under-runs and over-flows gracefully. Playbacks, recordings and downloads would have to wait while the buffers catch up, which would lead to stutters in performance, but the DVR shouldn't have to reboot to recover!


I don't know if that's the case. With my stock drives. 320GB and 1TB, I've had the drives full, and performance was just as fast. I had no issues. 
Although I haven't filled up my 2TB drive from DVR-DUde, but I have at one time or another filled up my four Premieres with the stock drive and none of them had any issues.


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## windsurfdog (May 1, 2009)

curiousgeorge said:


> On a TiVo, all you're buying with a 7200 RPM drive is more heat in the unit. TiVos are designed to work the same with a 5400 or 7200, so the 7200 just adds heat, which is undesirable in an enclosed space. There's a reason they ship with 5400 RPM drives - cooler performance, sometimes substantially.


Well, since my Tivo is not installed in an enclosed space, there should be no problem. Doesn't seem to be a problem with the 1TB Hitachi I installed in my THD over a year ago...also not installed in an enclosed space.

Anyway, according to donnoh, looks like heat is not an issue anyway.

Evidently, the "experts" here purport that the increased rpm's will be of no consequence...but the $20 cost savings of the Hitachi over the WD was certainly a reality. Now only time will tell how well the Hitachi runs...heat/speed notwithstanding.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

donnoh said:


> I replaced my stock Tivo drive with a DVR dude 2TB Hitachi and the temperature stayed exactly the same at 39 degrees C, so I don't buy the speed = heat theory.


My stock drive runs at 35C.


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

curiousgeorge said:


> My stock drive runs at 35C.


Congratulations!
The point of my post was to point out that the temp of my Tivo did not change when I changed to a 7200 RPM drive from the stock 5400 RPM drive.

Whether or not your Tivo runs at 35C or 50C is irrelevant. I would venture a guess that if you changed your drive out to a 7200 RPM drive your Tivo would display the same temp as it did with the stock drive as mine did.


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