# Battlestar Gallactica 4-4-08 *Possible Spoilers*



## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

Glad it's back!


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Woah

If I found out you were a Cylon, Sam....
BSG is back.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Haven't seen it yet, but it would be helpful if the spelling of the thread was corrected, for future searches.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Wow, when Tigh shot Adama right in the head...I was like "you aren't going to live through this one!" Almost gave me a stroke, damn you writers!


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

It is tough watching this in 480i. Ugh. I am spoiled by the DVDs.

The Adama shooting scene had me blown away too. And then when Tigh looked down at his empty hand, wow.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> Woah
> 
> If I found out you were a Cylon, Sam....
> BSG is back.


GREAT line! I'm so excited it is back and looking forward to podcast.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

This show is one of the best on television if not the best!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Yeah, the final season looks to be amped up emotionally, that's for sure. 

So now there are two Cylon babies in the fleet? Tyrol's and Boomathena's?

And how LONG has Tighe been a Cylon? Didn't he and Adama meet in the old days, before the first attack? Is there any clue in that flashback episode to when he might have been "switched," or replaced or whatever happened? Or was he placed in the fleet as a younger man? So Cylons do grow old? It's something that hasn't really been addressed yet.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

Peter000 said:


> Yeah, the final season looks to be amped up emotionally, that's for sure.
> 
> So now there are two Cylon babies in the fleet? Tyrol's and Boomathena's?
> 
> And how LONG has Tighe been a Cylon? Didn't he and Adama meet in the old days, before the first attack? Is there any clue in that flashback episode to when he might have been "switched," or replaced or whatever happened? Or was he placed in the fleet as a younger man? So Cylons do grow old? It's something that hasn't really been addressed yet.


Since the clones come out adults my theory has always been that the cylons kidnapped and used the memories of an adult to make the cylon model and then replaced that person with a cylon. I could be wrong though. Boomer has mentioned having memories of her childhood but nobody else has known any of them when they were children. They could have just planted them with the fake memories and fake IDs.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I'm hoping we'll see the writers deal with all these questions.

I was happy to see that it was back, and that it was a good episode. I'm unclear where they're going with the Baltar storyline, but it was nice to see him get rid of the beard.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> It is tough watching this in 480i. Ugh. I am spoiled by the DVDs.
> 
> The Adama shooting scene had me blown away too. And then when Tigh looked down at his empty hand, wow.


It looked spectacular in HD.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

emandbri said:


> Boomer has mentioned having memories of her childhood but nobody else has known any of them when they were children.


Didn't Kara, Apollo, & his brother grow up together? That would either rule out Kara as a toaster, or mean that toasters can age.

Yes, Tigh & Adama have known each other a loooooooong time. Since the 70s. 

Greg


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

MickeS said:


> but it was nice to see him get rid of the beard.


Oh he is hot either way.


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## bobat (Dec 4, 2007)

Barmat said:


> It looked spectacular in HD.


It looked like crap to me. Every action sequence was grossly pixelated. What kind of bitrate is SciFi "HD" jamming down our throats?

bah!


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Who here is starting to think (again) that Baltar's "Six" phantom is actually something like Count Iblis on the original Galactica? The little kid is at death's door and suddenly his fever is gone? And just what did Baltar get himself into by saying 'You can have my life if you save the child'?

'Having' or 'taking' his life could mean other things, not just causing his death.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

bobat said:


> It looked like crap to me. Every action sequence was grossly pixelated. What kind of bitrate is SciFi "HD" jamming down our throats?
> 
> bah!


You should complain to DirecTV or whoever is your provider. I bet SciFi provides a great signal... it's up to the provider to split up the bandwidth they have between the channels. Some get more and look better.

The Sci Fi "lo fi" signal in NYC looked pretty damn good to me tonight (for a standard def signal)... and I even zoomed in on it so it fills the whole 50" screen.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

bobat said:


> It looked like crap to me. Every action sequence was grossly pixelated. What kind of bitrate is SciFi "HD" jamming down our throats?
> 
> bah!


Comcast has been doing unforgivable things to the bitrate of SciFi HD, and USA HD in many areas recently to prepare for the cramming in of more HD channels. It's gone downhill noticeably since SG:A ended. *bastards* ...

-Ken


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## Maximus67 (Mar 22, 2002)

emandbri said:


> Since the clones come out adults my theory has always been that the cylons kidnapped and used the memories of an adult to make the cylon model and then replaced that person with a cylon.


Did anyone else notice the final scene, where Kara is wondering why her picture was not taken off the "missing/deceased" board? She questions Sam why, then she goes off on this wild theory about possibly being cloned while on New Caprica. Right before she goes off on that tangent, they cut to a shot of a guard, and I SWEAR it's Kara in the guard's outfit. I watched the scene again and I am 80% sure it is her.

a) The director made a point of getting a nice long look at the guard and 
b) It was just before he postulates about being cloned. Hmmmm.....

If any of you have TiVos (Does anyone around here use 'em?) take a look and tell me I'm wrong. I don't think that I am.


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## Maximus67 (Mar 22, 2002)

Another thing that I just thought of. Boomer and Chief were romantically involved early, in season one. Two cylons in love? I don't get it.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Maximus67 said:


> Did anyone else notice the final scene, where Kara is wondering why her picture was not taken off the "missing/deceased" board? She questions Sam why, then she goes off on this wild theory about possibly being cloned while on New Caprica. Right before she goes off on that tangent, they cut to a shot of a guard, and I SWEAR it's Kara in the guard's outfit. I watched the scene again and I am 80% sure it is her.
> 
> a) The director made a point of getting a nice long look at the guard and
> b) It was just before he postulates about being cloned. Hmmmm.....
> ...


You're wrong.  It wasn't her, but at a glance the guard did resemble her. I think it point showing the guard was to establish that Kara was being shadowed by security everywhere.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

For some reason, the shot where Balthar and his groupie are awakened from sleep made me think of Lennon and Ono's bed-in for peace.

I had noticed that Kara's viper was far too pristine as soon as it showed up next to Adama's.

Something doesn't look right about Mary McDonnell, I checked the program info to make sure it was still her in the cast.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

Maximus67 said:


> and I SWEAR it's Kara in the guard's outfit.


I looked at it twice, and I thought it was her also.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Maximus67 said:


> Another thing that I just thought of. Boomer and Chief were romantically involved early, in season one. Two cylons in love? I don't get it.


The writers didn't come up with the idea to make Chief a cylon until recently.


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## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

Nice to have it back. Pretty good transition into the final season.

1. Starbuck's return, while a little hoakey, is at least leaving us with more questions, and certainly throws the show in yet another direction.

2. Really liked the scene with Anders and the Cylon vessel.

3. Liking Col. Tigh more than ever! :up:

4. SciFi HD, what's not to like?


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

bobat said:


> It looked like crap to me. Every action sequence was grossly pixelated. What kind of bitrate is SciFi "HD" jamming down our throats?
> 
> bah!


The HD on DirecTV was spectacular!


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> The HD on DirecTV was spectacular!


+1

On a lot of the hand-held-camera interiors, _film grain_ was clearly apparent.

This was clearly an artistic choice. Made the scenes look like low-budget Cinema Verete or an indie documentary.

Beautiful! And the 1080i let you see it.

That's film grain folks, not pixilization!  

<geezer>
Why, you young whippersnappers, I remember the day when....
</geezer>


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

gchance said:


> Yes, Tigh & Adama have known each other a loooooooong time. Since the 70s.
> 
> Greg


Then you would think the change would be more...noticable.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> *And how LONG has Tighe been a Cylon? Didn't he and Adama meet in the old days, before the first attack? *Is there any clue in that flashback episode to when he might have been "switched," or replaced or whatever happened? Or was he placed in the fleet as a younger man? So Cylons do grow old? It's something that hasn't really been addressed yet.


Last season, the writers who *clearly* did not think through the series in the beginning thought it would be "cool" to have certain main characters be the 5 spylons. All the past info that folks carefully observed about Cylons was suddenly and unabashedly thrown out the window, like the aging bit.

The imaginative premise, neat space battle sequences and fine acting serve to mask the slacker mentality writing. Well written series lay seeds and hints that are obvious later in retrospect, but not with BSG where the writers were too lazy to think the main storyline through in the beginning. These folks are good at dialog and writing stand alone character driven episodes, it's the main storyline that's full of holes.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Last season, the writers who *clearly* did not think through the series in the beginning thought it would be "cool" to have certain main characters be the 5 spylons. All the past info that folks carefully observed about Cylons was suddenly and unabashedly thrown out the window, like the aging bit.
> 
> The imaginative premise, neat space battle sequences and fine acting serve to mask the slacker mentality writing. Well written series lay seeds and hints that are obvious later in retrospect, but not with BSG where the writers were too lazy to think the main storyline through in the beginning. These folks are good at dialog and writing stand alone character driven episodes, it's the main storyline that's full of holes.


Do you like Battlestar Galactica? I'm just curious.

Greg


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Haven't seen it yet, but it would be helpful if the spelling of the thread was corrected, for future searches.


Yeah.........but you still posted! It wasn't like the thread was buried.

Pretty good start for the final season. Just as long it doesn't turn into "Galactica 1980"! What an embarressment!


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

gchance said:


> Do you like Battlestar Galactica? I'm just curious.
> 
> Greg


I love it, but I agree with Phil. They are just making sh*t up at this point. Still, I'm along for the ride and will enjoy what I can of it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I love it, but I agree with Phil. They are just making sh*t up at this point. Still, I'm along for the ride and will enjoy what I can of it.


Yeah, it could have been a great show but it's only an OK show. Lots of cool stuff that's enjoyable in isolation if I can force myself to ignore the context (or should I say "context"?).

It kind of reached a tipping point for me. At first, they had me fooled and I thought it really was a great show. Then, the evidence that they hadn't thought any of this through began to mount. And mount. And mount. And the more it mounted, the more the show pissed me off. Finally, it just got to be too much and my brain shorted out trying to keep up with all the gibberish, and I was able to enjoy the individual moments. So it's OK now, and if they wouldn't keep throwing new stuff onto the mountain, it would be even better. But it is not now, nor has it ever been, nor (I say with confidence) will it ever be a great show, or good science fiction.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

bobat said:


> It looked like crap to me. Every action sequence was grossly pixelated. What kind of bitrate is SciFi "HD" jamming down our throats?
> 
> bah!


I didn't see any issues like that. (comcast cable)

Z


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

Oh, frak it's back. What an awesome show!
Where did Kara go? Why is the ship brand new? Dum dum Duuuuum!

Baltar's Jesus Syndrome makes me gag, though.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, it could have been a great show but it's only an OK show. Lots of cool stuff that's enjoyable in isolation if I can force myself to ignore the context (or should I say "context"?).
> 
> It kind of reached a tipping point for me. At first, they had me fooled and I thought it really was a great show. Then, the evidence that they hadn't thought any of this through began to mount. And mount. And mount. And the more it mounted, the more the show pissed me off. Finally, it just got to be too much and my brain shorted out trying to keep up with all the gibberish, and I was able to enjoy the individual moments. So it's OK now, and if they wouldn't keep throwing new stuff onto the mountain, it would be even better. But it is not now, nor has it ever been, nor (I say with confidence) will it ever be a great show, or good science fiction.


I'm hoping that now that they know this is the final season, they have a clear storyline that will be followed, so they'll be able to avoid the "make stuff up just because it's cool" trap that destroyed season 3,
I think even "Flash Gordon" had a better planned overall storyline.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> Last season, the writers who *clearly* did not think through the series in the beginning thought it would be "cool" to have certain main characters be the 5 spylons. All the past info that folks carefully observed about Cylons was suddenly and unabashedly thrown out the window, like the aging bit.
> 
> The imaginative premise, neat space battle sequences and fine acting serve to mask the slacker mentality writing. Well written series lay seeds and hints that are obvious later in retrospect, but not with BSG where the writers were too lazy to think the main storyline through in the beginning. These folks are good at dialog and writing stand alone character driven episodes, it's the main storyline that's full of holes.





IndyJones1023 said:


> I love it, but I agree with Phil. They are just making sh*t up at this point. Still, I'm along for the ride and will enjoy what I can of it.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, it could have been a great show but it's only an OK show. Lots of cool stuff that's enjoyable in isolation if I can force myself to ignore the context (or should I say "context"?).
> 
> It kind of reached a tipping point for me. At first, they had me fooled and I thought it really was a great show. Then, the evidence that they hadn't thought any of this through began to mount. And mount. And mount. And the more it mounted, the more the show pissed me off. Finally, it just got to be too much and my brain shorted out trying to keep up with all the gibberish, and I was able to enjoy the individual moments. So it's OK now, and if they wouldn't keep throwing new stuff onto the mountain, it would be even better. But it is not now, nor has it ever been, nor (I say with confidence) will it ever be a great show, or good science fiction.


I agree with you guys. I still enjoy it, but I take it 'with a grain of salt'. It bugs me that for three seasons they've been starting the show by saying that the Cylons "Have a plan" when clearly they didn't. It's disappointing that the writers did not think that rather LARGE plot point through. I notice they no longer mention the 'plan' in the opening for this season.

The creators of my current favorite show, Lost, are also frequently accused of making stuff up as they go along. On a recent podcast, in response to a question about how far ahead they had thought things (specifically about Desmond), they responded that before they would introduce any character, they have thought the characters story arc and place in the overall story through. It remains to be seen whether they really did that on Lost; but clearly that did not happen with Battlestar Galactica.

When we were told that there were 12 Cylon models, I ASSumed that while they might not have every line written, or the roles cast; that somewhere there was a notepad with a listing "1-12" with the characteristics and role in the overall story for each of the 12 models, but again, no.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

When I saw the Balter "cult", I thought of Charles Manson. Looks like 99% of the Balter's cult members are women. One big Manson Family.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Malcontent said:


> When I saw the Balter "cult", I thought of Charles Manson. Looks like 99% of the Balter's cult members are women. One big Manson Family.


I thought bringing the sick child into seclusion with the rest of the cult would result in the sickness/death of the cult and Baltar's escape before it was too late. Alas, it seems the writers have other plans.

This is a 20 episode season, right?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Malcontent said:


> Looks like 99% of the Balter's cult members are women.


Lucky frakking bastard.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I was hoping that Kara would have a line where'd she say, "Not to get overly dramatic about it... but I've found Earth. Ta-da!"


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I'm hoping we'll see the writers deal with all these questions.
> 
> I was happy to see that it was back, and that it was a good episode. I'm unclear where they're going with the Baltar storyline, but it was nice to see him get rid of the beard.


Up until he shaved off the beard, I figured that in the end they will find Earth, and it will be "our" earth, but in 30A.D. and it will turn out that Jesus is actually Baltar. 

Cause, you know, that wouldn't piss anybody off or anything.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sirius Black said:


> This is a 20 episode season, right?


Yes, but I can't remember if that's including Razor as 2 episodes, or if it's 20 PLUS Razor as two episodes (for 22 total)...


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes, but I can't remember if that's including Razor as 2 episodes, or if it's 20 PLUS Razor as two episodes (for 22 total)...


Well, with the new software update, it lists this episode as being season 4 - episode 3. It's listed in the episode info on the "play" menu for this episode. What this ultimately means, I don't know.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Malcontent said:


> Well, with the new software update, it lists this episode as being season 4 - episode 3. It's listed in the episode info on the "play" menu for this episode. What this ultimately means, I don't know.


Yes, I know that Razor was the "first two episodes." I just don't remember if it's the first two of 22 or 20.


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## zuko3984 (May 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes, I know that Razor was the "first two episodes." I just don't remember if it's the first two of 22 or 20.


22 episodes including razor. 10 episodes now and then a break with the final 10 later in the year or maybe early next year. And expect a big cliff hanger at the end of the first half of the season.
This i got straight from Ronald D Moore himself.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

busyba said:


> Up until he shaved off the beard, I figured that in the end they will find Earth, and it will be "our" earth, but in 30A.D. and it will turn out that Jesus is actually Baltar.
> 
> Cause, you know, that wouldn't piss anybody off or anything.


He's got time to grow another beard.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

One thing I want addressed is how they have all these clues to - and the name of - Earth. That would mean that the 13th colony left, went to Earth, then came back and left clues, and told people back on Caprica all about it. Centuries ago.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Man with all those hot chicks I wish I was Baltar! Man can you imagine the crap storm if they made the Baltar is Jesus storyline!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> One thing I want addressed is how they have all these clues to - and the name of - Earth. That would mean that the 13th colony left, went to Earth, then came back and left clues, and told people back on Caprica all about it. Centuries ago.


They could have just sent some form of message (or messenger) back.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MickeS said:


> They could have just sent some form of message (or messenger) back.


Or, more likely, the writers just haven't thought about it yet.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Maximus67 said:


> Another thing that I just thought of. Boomer and Chief were romantically involved early, in season one. Two cylons in love? I don't get it.


Exactly, as others have pointed out, the writers didn't really have a plan all along despite what it used to say in the intro sequence about the Cylons.

In the interview from March 07, Ron Moore says he came up with it during the 3rd season at http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm:

"R: When did you decide to make these four characters Cylons and how much did you have to go back and check to make sure that fit with things we already knew about these four characters?

RM: It was something I came up with this season as I worked toward the finale. The conceptual framework in which these guys are Cylons, it all sort of works once we laid down their individual back stories."

Regardless, this ep was pretty good. I hope they keep up the pace and don't have too many "internal episodes" (as Moore calls them) aka crap filler eps.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

That was well worth the wait! The opening battle scene was amazing (and yes, the HD on DirecTV was terrific :up.

I'm definitely enjoying the ride, although I was a bit frustrated to learn the writers are making it up as they go. It would have been cool to find out that Roslyn's assistant arranged for Billy to be shot so she could be placed in a position of power. Unfortunately, they didn't plan ahead.

I'm glad they're going forward knowing that they need to wrap everything up in these last 20 episodes. More than likely, we will not see any more "filler" episodes. Hopefully they will match the quality of this one.

And a :up: to Baltar finally shaving.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or, more likely, the writers just haven't thought about it yet.


Bingo.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

I can't wait for the podcast. They are usually quite good.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

The number #1 goal of the fleet is to find Earth, correct?

You've got someone that claims to have found it and says she can find it again by feeling her way there. 

I understand that it's too big of a risk to have the entire fleet chase Kara's feeling, but why not put her in a Raptor with some crew and see if she can feel her way back to Earth? No risk to the fleet, and they can get proof (and directions) of her having been there.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

This episode had lots of space action and boobs. That makes me happy. I have long since given up on the soap opera that is the "story."


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> One thing I want addressed is how they have all these clues to - and the name of - Earth. That would mean that the 13th colony left, went to Earth, then came back and left clues, and told people back on Caprica all about it. Centuries ago.


Doesn't Six keep telling us that this has all happened before? Maybe the survivors from the last time left all the clues?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> Exactly, as others have pointed out, the writers didn't really have a plan all along despite what it used to say in the intro sequence about the Cylons.


It never said the WRITERS had a plan, it said the cylons have a plan! 

Moore has admitted that they came up with that late (as he did in your quote), but it seems like they have a way of getting around some possible inconsistencies by making these cylons different from the others. He was quoted in the latest EW (I think) as saying that they are not at all like the others.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

busyba said:


> Lucky frakking bastard.


It looked frustratingly uncomfortable for him with the scorned head Six distracting him at every turn.

Oh, and the Cylons just gave new meaning to the term "optical character recognition."


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## s2krazy (Oct 31, 2003)

Random thoughts....
....It occurred to me that if the chief is a cylon, they now have two hybrid babies.

....They sure make baltar look like jesus...

....the cylons worship one god..... is that going to be Baltar?

.....what if the cylons become the first Christians on earth.... there were 12 disciples of Jesus


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I thought it was established a long time ago that the 5 cylons are different from the other 7...heck, the 7 don't even know who the 5 are!

it was a solid start...but I'm annoyed that there's going to be another long break in the middle of the season...


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

s2krazy said:


> .....what if the cylons become the first Christians on earth.... there were 12 disciples of Jesus


I'm having a hard time fitting Six into the role of St. Peter.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Great episode. Felt like a good season 1 episode!


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Wait, I'm so confused -- isn't Kara on "Smallville?" 

"What happened???" "I cut myself shaving." -- nice line from Baltar!

I hope they find Earth by the end of the show. I want to see Ron Moore's take on "Galactica 1980."


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

I hope they find Earth well before the last episode unlike some other shows...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ronsch said:


> I hope they find Earth well before the last episode unlike some other shows...


They're planning a split season, so that would certainly make a great mid-season cliffhanger!


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

emandbri said:


> Oh he is hot either way.


eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww:down:


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

So what do you think the Cylon did to Anders or vice versa? We saw his eyes "flick" in response to the red eye and then all the cylons withdrew. Did he subconsciously tell them to withdraw? Since he is one of the mythical final 5, does he have greater power than the other spylons?


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

BeanMeScot said:


> So what do you think the Cylon did to Anders or vice versa? We saw his eyes "flick" in response to the red eye and then all the cylons withdrew. Did he subconsciously tell them to withdraw? Since he is one of the mythical final 5, does he have greater power than the other spylons?


Hmmmm good thought.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

BeanMeScot said:


> So what do you think the Cylon did to Anders or vice versa? We saw his eyes "flick" in response to the red eye and then all the cylons withdrew. Did he subconsciously tell them to withdraw? Since he is one of the mythical final 5, does he have greater power than the other spylons?


I think the Raider merely identified another Cylon. I get serious shades of B5 here.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Kamakzie said:


> Man can you imagine the crap storm if they made the Baltar is Jesus storyline!


Probably why the SG-1 people never made Jesus a Gou'a'uld (or a Tok'ra, which would have made more sense).


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I think the Raider merely identified another Cylon. I get serious shades of B5 here.


I agree that the Cylon recognized him as a Spylon but why did all the Cylons retreat immediately afterward? Everyone was admitting they were seriously outmanned and it would have been a slaughter had the cylons continued the attack. So why did they withdraw?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

BeanMeScot said:


> I agree that the Cylon recognized him as a Spylon but why did all the Cylons retreat immediately afterward? Everyone was admitting they were seriously outmanned and it would have been a slaughter had the cylons continued the attack. So why did they withdraw?


I think the "five" are not like the "seven"...they also appeared to be more mythical/God-like to Deana in the temple...so the seven had to withdraw so they don't kill the five and to allow the five to continue with their mission (whatever their mission is)...


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

BeanMeScot said:


> I agree that the Cylon recognized him as a Spylon but why did all the Cylons retreat immediately afterward? Everyone was admitting they were seriously outmanned and it would have been a slaughter had the cylons continued the attack. So why did they withdraw?


I think the whole "final 5 are unknown to the Cylons" to be a stupid plot device. But clearly Anders subconsciously gave the Raider the "I am one of the final 5" signal. Apparently, the final 5 are revered by the other Cylons. They are mandated not to kill them. Maybe they can't be resurrected? Thus, the Cylons pulled out instead of risking killing one of the final 5.

Since they've been trying to destroy the Galactica for 4 seasons now, this makes no sense. But as we've been saying all along, they're just pulling stuff out of their asses at this point anyway.


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Other have already mentioned most of my thoughts on this episode, but I'm left with one remaining:

When Kara was describing the system with "Earth" in it, she said there was a gas giant with rings. What's the range of a Viper, and how would she be able to see something like that from Earth orbit? Do they have precision optical telescopes on the Vipers?

She was only gone for 6 hours (ship time), so if she really was seeing Earth and Saturn she would have to be traveling at over 100 million miles/hour in order to fly by both planets unaided.


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

I had an interesting idea for a "2010-type" scenario during her speech. What if Earth was seeded by aliens and left a wormhole gate inside a gas giant just waiting for us to find it and explore outside our solar system?


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

gchance said:


> Do you like Battlestar Galactica? I'm just curious.
> 
> Greg


Yes, BSG is my favorite Space type Sci-Fi show. No contest. 
Great premise and well-acted by a great cast, unlike other such shows.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> I agree with you guys. I still enjoy it, but I take it 'with a grain of salt'. It bugs me that for three seasons they've been starting the show by saying that the Cylons "Have a plan" when clearly they didn't. It's disappointing that the writers did not think that rather LARGE plot point through. I notice they no longer mention the 'plan' in the opening for this season.
> 
> The creators of my current favorite show, Lost, are also frequently accused of making stuff up as they go along. On a recent podcast, in response to a question about how far ahead they had thought things (specifically about Desmond), they responded that before they would introduce any character, they have thought the characters story arc and place in the overall story through. It remains to be seen whether they really did that on Lost; but clearly that did not happen with Battlestar Galactica.
> 
> When we were told that there were 12 Cylon models, I ASSumed that while they might not have every line written, or the roles cast; that somewhere there was a notepad with a listing "1-12" with the characteristics and role in the overall story for each of the 12 models, but again, no.


Bingo. Inexplicably, I did not introduce LOST as a counter-example, but I should have. On LOST they introduce both elements and hints of plot AND character development well in advance. It's clear that they'd thought out the broad outlines in advance, leaving the fun, creative storytelling details for later as they write the episodes. Not perfect but most often it works well. Certainly well enough as a TV series to this casual observer fan.

With BSG we suddenly had an episode with Apollo having a long term relationship with a woman with a daughter, completely out of the blue for his character. And what about thereafter? Nada. Storyline of the week.

Point being...they started BSG SO well with a dynamite universe view, cleverly turning viewer preconceptions upside down, creating interesting characters and casting great actors only to piss away greatness because of what seems laziness in doing the planing in advance.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

busyba said:


> Up until he shaved off the beard, I figured that in the end they will find Earth, and it will be "our" earth, but in 30A.D. and it will turn out that Jesus is actually Baltar.
> 
> Cause, you know, that wouldn't piss anybody off or anything.


I would kill for such a denoument!


----------



## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Plus, seeing Baltar literally crucified would be an appropriate ending for him.


----------



## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Mars Rocket said:


> Plus, seeing Baltar literally crucified would be an appropriate ending for him.


But then we'd just see him wake up in a goo tub three days later.


----------



## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

I still think that Kara is the final spylon. If all of the final 5 are in the fleet, why did only 4 hear the music and end up in the room together at the end of the last season? Because the fifth was being blown up, and sent on her journey to earth.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sherminator said:


> I still think that Kara is the final spylon. If all of the final 5 are in the fleet, why did only 4 hear the music and end up in the room together at the end of the last season? Because the fifth was being blown up, and sent on her journey to earth.


If they've decided yet, I suspect she's too obvious...


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Bryanmc said:


> The number #1 goal of the fleet is to find Earth, correct?
> 
> You've got someone that claims to have found it and says she can find it again by feeling her way there.
> 
> I understand that it's too big of a risk to have the entire fleet chase Kara's feeling, but why not put her in a Raptor with some crew and see if she can feel her way back to Earth? No risk to the fleet, and they can get proof (and directions) of her having been there.


According to the Hybrid in Razor:



Spoiler



Kara is the harbinger of death, and that she will lead the human race to it's end, and shouldn't be followed. So it is probably a good thing Adama isn't doing that.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Mars Rocket said:


> When Kara was describing the system with "Earth" in it, she said there was a gas giant with rings. *What's the range of a Viper, and how would she be able to see something like that from Earth orbit? Do they have precision optical telescopes on the Vipers?*


Details like that are beneath the BSG writers


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Details like that are beneath the BSG writers


Yeah, in the podcast Moore normally deals with questions like that in this manner: "This is a show about the CHARACTERS. I'm sure we could come up with some technobabble to explain it, but it doesn't matter, so we choose not to."


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MickeS said:


> Yeah, in the podcast Moore normally deals with questions like that in this manner: "This is a show about the CHARACTERS. I'm sure we could come up with some technobabble to explain it, but it doesn't matter, so we choose not to."


It would be really interesting to see, say, Law & Order written with such a total disregard for the world in which it is set...

It's sad to see a science fiction show created and written by people with such raw contempt for science fiction.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It would be really interesting to see, say, Law & Order written with such a total disregard for the world in which it is set...
> 
> It's sad to see a science fiction show created and written by people with such raw contempt for science fiction.


While I sadly agree, I'm perplexed. SOMEBODY came up with a very creative and fun initial concept of the BSG universe and played it out through the 1st seasons. Did they just stop at that point and say "Well, that job's done. We're outa here"??? Seems like it to me.


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> While I sadly agree, I'm perplexed. SOMEBODY came up with a very creative and fun initial concept of the BSG universe and played it out through the 1st seasons. Did they just stop at that point and say "Well, that job's done. We're outa here"??? Seems like it to me.


The only season I couldn't get enough of was the 1st. It hasn't been nearly as good since.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I thought that in this episode Six was too heavily clothed, for my taste.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> While I sadly agree, I'm perplexed. SOMEBODY came up with a very creative and fun initial concept of the BSG universe and played it out through the 1st seasons. Did they just stop at that point and say "Well, that job's done. We're outa here"??? Seems like it to me.


I don't think so. I suspect it was a case of them saying "Ooh, the Cylons look like us now! Isn't that cool?" and so on. And we (at least I) assumed they had thought it through, but they hadn't. So as long as we could trick ourselves into thinking they knew what they were doing, the show seemed great, but over time it became more and more obvious that _we_ had thought about it a whole lot more than _they_ had.

Coming back to this again, because it corks me so badly...


MickeS said:


> Yeah, in the podcast Moore normally deals with questions like that in this manner: "This is a show about the CHARACTERS. I'm sure we could come up with some technobabble to explain it, but it doesn't matter, so we choose not to."


I know you're paraphrasing, but that is so clearly their attitude and it really pisses me off. That's like having an episode of ER where they bring in a gunshot victim, Dr. Carter pokes him with a scalpel, and he's instantly healed. "This isn't a show about medicine, it's a show about CHARACTERS!" Sorry, Moore, but this IS a show about science (among other things). And if science doesn't matter to you, than you shouldn't have built the entire premise of the show around it!


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

PJO1966 said:


> I'm glad they're going forward knowing that they need to wrap everything up in these last 20 episodes. More than likely, we will not see any more "filler" episodes.





philw1776 said:


> With BSG we suddenly had an episode with Apollo having a long term relationship with a woman with a daughter, completely out of the blue for his character. And what about thereafter? Nada. Storyline of the week.


The continual storylines of the week last season were mandated by Sci Fi executives as an attempt to bring in new viewers who weren't familiar with the overall plotline. It was to the dismay of the Moore /production team / writers of the show who wanted to stick to the serialized plotline.

The attempt failed, and Sci Fi has promised to be hands off this last season in the same manner they were in the earlier seasons. So I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I know you're paraphrasing, but that is so clearly their attitude and it really pisses me off. That's like having an episode of ER where they bring in a gunshot victim, Dr. Carter pokes him with a scalpel, and he's instantly healed. "This isn't a show about medicine, it's a show about CHARACTERS!" Sorry, Moore, but this IS a show about science (among other things). And *if science doesn't matter to you, than you shouldn't have built the entire premise of the show around it!*


Carefull...you'll have the cultists asking if you "like" BSG!

And it doesn't have to be that science pure, although I prefer mine straight with no water. Just internally consistent without unintended hilarity. But NOOoooo!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

philw1776 said:


> And it doesn't have to be that science pure, although I prefer mine straight with no water. Just internally consistent without unintended hilarity. But NOOoooo!


I agree--ER isn't the most medically accurate, but it at least gives the impression that it's for real (or did back when I watched it). It just seems to me that if a show is all about the characters and you don't want to have to think about the setting, then you should set it in an environment you already know thoroughly. Setting it in a world that you not only don't know about, but don't CARE about, is a recipe for disaster.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> The continual storylines of the week last season were* mandated by Sci Fi executives as an attempt to bring in new viewers who weren't familiar with the overall plotline. It was to the dismay of the Moore /production team / writers of the show who wanted to stick to the serialized plotline.*
> 
> The attempt failed, and Sci Fi has promised to be hands off this last season in the same manner they were in the earlier seasons. So I'm hoping for the best.


I call that lame excuse utter BS. 
MAYBE execs wanted more character and less plot but the utter disregard for a 'plan' on the part of Moore et. al. is blatantly obvious. The slackers are now pointing to others for their failure to think anything through. Rob Helmerichs says it better than I.

Me, I'm just gonna enjoy the final season ride with an old friends cast even though the series is a major disappointment from its initial kick ass premise.


----------



## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

When this all happens again, I hope they at least have an outline of how the story begins and ends, with clear paths for the middle sections 

I still enjoy the show. No, it is not the same as year one, and even year two, for a while. It is still far better than most chum on the tele and somewhat continues to challenge me to think.

For SciFi, it is truly too bad. They had a winning show, which if done correctly, could have brought many, many viewers to the channel and created an influx of $$$ to create better programming. But since they have decided to go the way of garbage, we (the faithful) shall enjoy the last season of a good show and prepare for endless clones of good movies with cheezy effects and even more dragon programming.


Did the whole "Caprica project" die out, or are they looking to bring that back?


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

The thing is, when the show started it got credit for being scientifically accurate on some points, like slient explosions in space. It made the space scenes sort of poetic.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

i liked this episodes. Just like all the others. I will be mad at the end if they make a few people Cylons 
William Adama
Laura Roslin
Starbuck
Apollo
Baltar
Helo

IF one off these turns out to be a cylon i will be pissed.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I know you're paraphrasing, but that is so clearly their attitude and it really pisses me off. That's like having an episode of ER where they bring in a gunshot victim, Dr. Carter pokes him with a scalpel, and he's instantly healed. "This isn't a show about medicine, it's a show about CHARACTERS!" Sorry, Moore, but this IS a show about science (among other things). And if science doesn't matter to you, than you shouldn't have built the entire premise of the show around it!


Yeah, I agree. It's the details in a show that create the atmosphere within the show.

Someone brought up the lack of foreshadowing too. A great recent example of good use of this is "Journeyman", where little details revealed in one episode, that we often commented on here, became important in subsequent episodes. Not because they HAD to be brought up, but because it created a much more coherent world for the characters to exist in. And that show was STILL a "story of the week" type show.


----------



## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I think that initially one spylon was made. That was the 1st generation spylon. The 2nd generation is the 4, and the 3rd generation is the 7.

Whatever triggered the activation of the 2nd generation didn't activate the 1st generation spylon. The question is whether the 1st generation spylon knows he's a cylon or not.

Now, who is it? I think it's one of these 4 people:

Gaeta
Dualla
Cally
Doc Cottle.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mars Rocket said:


> Other have already mentioned most of my thoughts on this episode, but I'm left with one remaining:
> 
> When Kara was describing the system with "Earth" in it, she said there was a gas giant with rings. What's the range of a Viper, and how would she be able to see something like that from Earth orbit? Do they have precision optical telescopes on the Vipers?
> 
> She was only gone for 6 hours (ship time), so if she really was seeing Earth and Saturn she would have to be traveling at over 100 million miles/hour in order to fly by both planets unaided.


Well, she also talked about passing a galaxy with three suns, and as far as I know, there aren't any of those anywhere close, so of course it wasn't a straight flight. Maybe these are simply things she saw on each jump she made, which means the gas giant and tri-star system probably aren't anywhere close to Earth.


----------



## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

It was definately a good episode, and I like that the Baltar storyline is getting away from the depressed and bearded Baltar and back to the conflicted yet arrogant Baltar.

I still argue that the "final 5" are not really "spylons" at all--they are a part of Cylon mythology--"God made in man's image", so to speak. The Cylons are looking for these final 5 to be like them, but obviously they are different already--they've aged, they've had kids, and they don't have faster regenerative capabilities (Anders is still limping). They are in some way special, but I think that the difference is more spiritual. I also think that they will wind up playing a role in the human mythology as well.

Either that, or the entire show has gone to crap, and I don't want to believe that.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Well, she also talked about passing a galaxy with three suns, and as far as I know, there aren't any of those anywhere close, so of course it wasn't a straight flight.


Did she really say that? Because as far as I know, there's not a galaxy in the universe with fewer than three suns!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Well, she also talked about passing a galaxy with three suns, and as far as I know, there aren't any of those anywhere close, so of course it wasn't a straight flight. Maybe these are simply things she saw on each jump she made, which means the gas giant and tri-star system probably aren't anywhere close to Earth.


Galaxy was a mis-nomer because the writers don't employ a fact checker or care anythiing about the universe they created or the viewers in that regard..

The closest star system to our solar system is *Alpha Centauri. It has three suns, *Alpha a G type just like our sun, Beta a fainter K type and far away but gravitationally bound, the faint M dwarf Proxima, currently the closest to us by just about a tenth of a light year.

http://www.solstation.com/stars/alp-cent3.htm


----------



## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> It is tough watching this in 480i. Ugh. I am spoiled by the DVDs.


+1. Something got funked with my SP, so my recording came off of the SD channel. Ouch.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

It would be great if they made Helo the final Cylon and that Tyrol's baby was the hybrid all along.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Galaxy was a mis-nomer because the writers don't employ a fact checker or care anythiing about the universe they created or the viewers in that regard..


She never said anything about a galaxy with three stars.

Here's what she said:
"I remember a giant gas planet with rings. I remember a flashing triple star and a comet. And then I was back with the fleet."

My guess is that means Saturn and Alpha Centauri.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

IndyJones1023 said:


> One thing I want addressed is how they have all these clues to - and the name of - Earth. That would mean that the 13th colony left, went to Earth, then came back and left clues, and told people back on Caprica all about it. Centuries ago.





MickeS said:


> They could have just sent some form of message (or messenger) back.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Or, more likely, the writers just haven't thought about it yet.


Isn't this a plot point left over from the original series? If so, I don't think Moore and Co. can be held responsible for it. Sure, they could choose to explain it in some way, but they're not the ones who originally came up with the concept.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

we can't they (13th colony) simply leave bread crumbs as they were out looking for a place to call home?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> ...it doesn't have to be that science pure, although I prefer mine straight with no water. Just internally consistent without unintended hilarity. But NOOoooo!





philw1776 said:


> Galaxy was a mis-nomer because the writers don't employ a fact checker or care anythiing about the universe they created or the viewers in that regard..





philw1776 said:


> MAYBE execs wanted more character and less plot but the utter disregard for a 'plan' on the part of Moore et. al. is blatantly obvious. The slackers are now pointing to others for their failure to think anything through.  Rob Helmerichs says it better than I.





philw1776 said:


> Carefull...you'll have the cultists asking if you "like" BSG!


See, here's my problem... I think you like BSG, I just noticed that in all your posts to this thread you've only said negative things about the show, about the writers, about just about everything related (with exception to the "initial concept"). That's why I asked if you even liked it, because judging from your posts, you don't.

At least Rob Helmerichs gives both positives and negatives.



ovr8ted said:


> Did the whole "Caprica project" die out, or are they looking to bring that back?


I thought Sci-Fi announced it's on their new program slate for next season, they're going to start with a 2-hour pilot movie and see how it goes.

Greg


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Anubys said:


> we can't they (13th colony) simply leave bread crumbs as they were out looking for a place to call home?


But, their bread crumbs are leading to a specific destination ahead of time. Which would mean that they made it to Earth, then backtracked.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DouglasPHill said:


> eeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwww:down:


Wow...that also was my reaction EXACTLY.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

busyba said:


> But then we'd just see him wake up in a goo tub three days later.


Well. there *WAS* the resurrection...


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

gchance said:


> See, here's my problem... I think you like BSG, I just noticed that in all your posts to this thread you've only said negative things about the show, about the writers, about just about everything related (with exception to the "initial concept"). That's why I asked if you even liked it, because judging from your posts, you don't.
> 
> At least Rob Helmerichs gives both positives and negatives.
> 
> Greg


You really need to read more closely.

I have said _repeatedly_ that I like the characters, I like the actors portraying the characters, that I enjoy the show, I like the writers' dialog and yes I like the 'initial concept'. No positives????

What I have mostly criticized is the lack of the writers' continuity or plan which several here have agreed with when read their replies. I also agree with Rob's added observation that the writer's disrespect the audience by their lack of attention to detail on the 'science'.

I guess my focus on lack of plan/continuity vs a complete uncritical worship of BSG is somehow a problem.


----------



## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

busyba said:


> Up until he shaved off the beard, I figured that in the end they will find Earth, and it will be "our" earth, but in 30A.D. and it will turn out that Jesus is actually Baltar.
> 
> Cause, you know, that wouldn't piss anybody off or anything.


That would have been the best ending ever. Seriously.


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> I think that initially one spylon was made. That was the 1st generation spylon. The 2nd generation is the 4, and the 3rd generation is the 7.
> 
> Whatever triggered the activation of the 2nd generation didn't activate the 1st generation spylon. The question is whether the 1st generation spylon knows he's a cylon or not.
> 
> ...


How about Admiral Caine?


----------



## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> How about Admiral Caine?


You mean Admiral Ro?


----------



## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> You mean Admiral Ro?


That's the one. It would be interesting if it turned out that she was the last Cylon.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Did she really say that? Because as far as I know, there's not a galaxy in the universe with fewer than three suns!





MickeS said:


> She never said anything about a galaxy with three stars.
> 
> Here's what she said:
> "I remember a giant gas planet with rings. I remember a flashing triple star and a comet. And then I was back with the fleet."
> ...


OK, so I said galaxy when I meant solar system. My bad. My point, in response to Mars Rocket, was that it's silly to try and calculate the speed she was flying by figuring out how she could see Earth and Saturn in a six-hour trip, because that was only a tiny fragment of the overall journey based on the fact that she also went past a solar system with three suns, so clearly there were FTL jumps involved.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> But, their bread crumbs are leading to a specific destination ahead of time. Which would mean that they made it to Earth, then backtracked.


ok...how about this...the 13th colony wanted to find a new home...they sent scout ships and expeditions to look for a new home...once they found one, they started the exodus but left clues along the way to Earth...the other 12 headed towards Caprica from Kobol...


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> ok...how about this...the 13th colony wanted to find a new home...they sent scout ships and expeditions to look for a new home...once they found one, they started the exodus but left clues along the way to Earth...the other 12 headed towards Caprica from Kobol...


I think I just heard the writers saying 'why didn't we think of that'?


----------



## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

gchance said:


> ...I just noticed that in all your posts to this thread you've only said negative things about the show,...


Let me ask you - don't the holes in the overall plot annoy you? You're not bothered by inconsistencies or lack of pre-planning?

I'm asking you because you made of point of questioning the criticism in this thread; but I'm really asking anyone who thinks people are being too critical here; don't you think the show is far weaker now than it was in the first two seasons? Can anyone really say "this is the best show on TV" and truly believe it?

I think the acting is great, particularly James Callis, Tricia Helfer and Grace Park - none of whom I'd ever heard of before this show and now I will actively seek out anything they are in. I think the dialog is usually very good, and when they do a multiple episode story arc they build the tension very effectively until the climatic scenes are edge-of-your-seat moments (the Pegasus arc is what I'm thinking of right now).

I, for one, am very disappointed when I think about how good parts of the story have been - like the Tomb of Athena/Kobol arc for another example - and then I think about how the overall story did not receive the same attention as the smaller arcs.

I can't help but feel that as good as it is it could have been much better; and so I feel like we're missing out on that. Do you not feel any of that?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> I think I just heard the writers saying 'why didn't we think of that'?


I heard them say "We never really cared anyway, but that's as good an explanation as any."


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

latrobe7 said:


> I can't help but feel that as good as it is it could have been much better; and so I feel like we're missing out on that. Do you not feel any of that?


Yeah, I've never had a show that I was so split on--where the good parts are so good and the bad parts are so bad. It really drives me crazy, because I want to either love or hate this show, but I can't justify either.

I hope they'll pull it together for the final season, but from what I've seen in interviews (where they claim making it up as they go along as a virtue!) I remain deeply skeptical about where they're going.

If they had given the quality of acting, direction, and production to a series set in our time and place, I think the show would have been sheer greatness (because they would have had the characters inhabiting a consistent world). But a lot of that quality is wasted when literally anything can happen; it eliminates most of the inherent tension in their situation, because any time they need to get the characters out of a bind, they'll just make something up with no regard to how it fits in with everything else they've done. If the danger from the Cylons had been real (as it seemed in the first season or so, right up to the networked computers/Boomer fiber optic fiascos), instead of the intense dramatic tension of the show's beginning fizzling away, it could have just grown and grown. But when nothing really matters, it's hard to feel anything beyond the pure performances of the cast...and it's a tribute to the actors that they can carry that much dramatic weight purely on their own.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Let me ask you - don't the holes in the overall plot annoy you? You're not bothered by inconsistencies or lack of pre-planning?
> 
> I'm asking you because you made of point of questioning the criticism in this thread; but I'm really asking anyone who thinks people are being too critical here; don't you think the show is far weaker now than it was in the first two seasons? Can anyone really say "this is the best show on TV" and truly believe it?
> 
> ...


I agree completely. It's actually only the lack of a good overall story arc and the lack of foreshadowing for certain more stand-alone episodes, that bother me. I like pretty much everything else about the show, but that's a big problem. I hope they fix it this season.

And kudos for mentioning Tricia Helfer. I have mentioned it before, but I think she's nothing short of amazing. She has played Six in a variety of ways, and EVERY single incarnation has been great. I honestly would not be surprised to see her get an Oscar some day, if she has a good agent.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob makes an excellent point...the Boomer/fiber optic thing was the beginning of the end...it was preposterous...that is actually why I stopped listening to the podcasts, it took away much of the fun to know how little plan they actually had for the future...

the kicker is learning that they sat there one day and thought "ok, who should the last 5 spylons be?" in the middle of season 3...ARE YOU KIDDING? how could you write lines and stories for characters for 2.5 seasons and not already know that they were spylons?!

that was when the show -- for me at least -- turned into a complete joke...

I still love it and will watch it but I hate it at the same time...this could have been B5 with better acting...


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Let me ask you - don't the holes in the overall plot annoy you? You're not bothered by inconsistencies or lack of pre-planning?


Sure it's annoying, and some of Galactica has been very boring. But I think every good show has its ups and downs, and mistakes can happen. Perhaps I was skimming too much, but it just seemed like there was a so much complaining going on when the season premiere was FANTASTIC in my opinion.



> I'm asking you because you made of point of questioning the criticism in this thread; but I'm really asking anyone who thinks people are being too critical here; don't you think the show is far weaker now than it was in the first two seasons? Can anyone really say "this is the best show on TV" and truly believe it?


I don't think I've ever been on the "best show on TV" bandwagon with this show. Right at the moment I'm not sure what's the best show on TV. I have my favorites, of course, and this is one of the two (Lost being the other) that this season have come back stronger than ever. Interestingly, both have projected end-points now, which could have something to do with it.

But see, I've found that with a lot of shows there's a slump that happens in the 2nd to 3rd seasons, and with talented people involved they can be pulled out. It happens with good bands as well, the 2nd or 3rd albums are lackluster but then afterward they jump out and become the best they've ever been.

I see BSG as one of those. In fact, TV in general has gotten better in recent years. The worst BSG is better than a lot of the drek I used to love. 

Greg


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I think Adama senior being a cylon would make for the best storyline, just because it means that Lee and the dead brother were both hybrids. Since they've already gone down the path where we have to assume the final 5 are not like "normal" cylons and thus don't produce super powered hybrid babies, it would be (maybe) ok to have Lee be a hybrid.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I still love it and will watch it but I hate it at the same time...this could have been B5 with better acting...


Speaking of which I'm working my way through B5 right now during evening cardio workouts. The last episode I watched was on Friday, Londo told Mr. Morden what he "wants". 

It amazes me to this day how many nuggets for the overall arc were given in Season 1 that nobody (least of all me) really picked up on until the series was over.

Greg


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

I think Vir has the best "want". In fact, I've been known to use it myself.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

mrmike said:


> I think Vir has the best "want". In fact, I've been known to use it myself.


Agreed! I also use that scene as an example of things that come to fruition later in the series. Man if that were Lost, people would be complaining.

Greg


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, I've never had a show that I was so split on--where the good parts are so good and the bad parts are so bad. It really drives me crazy, because I want to either love or hate this show, but I can't justify either.


Same here. The series has wandered all over the place. I still think it hit it's peak right around '33'.... although just when I'm starting to really get irritated by the show, they pull out something that shows that they occasionally have some talent (I rather liked Exodus Part II and Razor, the latter being one of my few examples of good retconning).


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

kaszeta said:


> The series has wandered all over the place. I still think it hit it's peak right around '33'....


33 was the very first episode of season 1, post-miniseries. So the series has been all downhill since the first episode?


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Jeeters said:


> 33 was the very first episode of season 1, post-miniseries. So the series has been all downhill since the first episode?


Not all downhill, it got better a few times. But very little on television compares to the quality of '33', and it was early enough they didn't have to worry about too many consistency, character development, and retconning issues.... 

Too me, it's as if they wrote a miniseries. Then the series itself got greenlighted, and they sat down, worked the idea, and came up with the pattern for a few episodes. And then gave up there and started winging it.

Unfortunately, listening to the RDM commentary for the episodes reinforces this impression, especially with the writing team's willingness to try stuff out only to abandon it a few episodes later (like the whole fat Adama thing).


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I heard them say "We never really cared anyway, but that's as good an explanation as any."


:up:


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Reading this thread and the discussions about plot holes makes me think of how spoiled we've become in the past 10 years or so regarding consistency in our TV series', and more specifically how complicated series' have become. I've been re-watching some old series' from my youth lately, thanks to Netflix, and it's almost comical how un-complicated they actually were. I don't think they could keep continuity going on some of them from episode-to-episode, let alone through the whole series. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great how TV series' have evolved over the past 20 years - no doubt a necessary step to keep the interest of the more educated and informed masses - but I just wonder if there were discussions like these over the water cooler 20 or so years ago, about whether the whole MacGyver story arc was thought out before the series even started.


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

busyba said:


> Up until he shaved off the beard, I figured that in the end they will find Earth, and it will be "our" earth, but in 30A.D. and it will turn out that Jesus is actually Baltar.
> 
> Cause, you know, that wouldn't piss anybody off or anything.


Actually I was thinking that exact thing last year... well not the Baltar=Jesus. More like the Cylons find earth early (say 2000 BC) interbreed with the locals and establish a monotheist religion. Hey you never know


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

jking said:


> Reading this thread and the discussions about plot holes makes me think of how spoiled we've become in the past 10 years or so regarding consistency in our TV series', and more specifically how complicated series' have become. I've been re-watching some old series' from my youth lately, thanks to Netflix, and it's almost comical how un-complicated they actually were. I don't think they could keep continuity going on some of them from episode-to-episode, let alone through the whole series. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great how TV series' have evolved over the past 20 years - no doubt a necessary step to keep the interest of the more educated and informed masses - but I just wonder if there were discussions like these over the water cooler 20 or so years ago, about whether the whole MacGyver story arc was thought out before the series even started.


One that always struck me was in MASH. There was an episode where they took out the appendix of an officer to keep him from waging another campaign and getting people killed and they were pleasd with themselves. In another episode, they take out a healthy appendix to slow down someone and the doctor had this huge crisis of conscience.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

gchance said:


> Speaking of which I'm working my way through B5 right now during evening cardio workouts. The last episode I watched was on Friday, Londo told Mr. Morden what he "wants".
> 
> It amazes me to this day how many nuggets for the overall arc were given in Season 1 that nobody (least of all me) really picked up on until the series was over.
> 
> Greg


You are not the only one that is what makes B5 the best scifi series ever. It was so much better the second and third times because of all the little nuggets you can pick up each time. That and the slow build up of events over the years makes for some unforgettable episodes.

I had high hopes during season 1 BSG would have the same type of story arc. They teased me with the whole profacy and the cylons have a plan. I can only imagine how great BSG could of been. They could of dropped hints and nuggets about the final 5 all these years. Instead they just write for shock value. That and the show has really changed its premise. It was a dark drama about the survival of humanity against a superior enemy. It has evolved into a cheap night time soap with plot lines right out grey's or any other night time soap.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

vikingguy said:


> I had high hopes during season 1 BSG would have the same type of story arc. They teased me with the whole profacy and the cylons have a plan. * I can only imagine how great BSG could of been. They could of dropped hints and nuggets about the final 5 all these years. Instead they just write for shock value. * That and the show has really changed its premise. It was a dark drama about the survival of humanity against a superior enemy. It has evolved into a cheap night time soap with plot lines right out grey's or any other night time soap.


Stop!
You are in violation of the thread policy. You have not mentioned 17 positives things to every BSG criticism.
The horror!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

http://www.multichannel.com/index.asp?layout=articlePrint&articleID=CA6548736

Battlestar Galactica' Bow Boosts Sci Fi
Final-Season Debut Was First Among Adults 25 to 54 Friday Night
By Mike Reynolds -- Multichannel News,

Battlestar Galactica's fourth and final season launched on a strong Nielsen note, notching its best performance against its target audience since the bow of its third season and top numbers among adults 18 to 49 in over two years.

The "He That Believeth in Me" episode delivered a 1.6 household rating in the 10 p.m. hour April 4, translating into 2.1 million viewers, according to Nielsen Media Research data. Included in that total were 1.5 million adults 25 to 54 and 1.4 million adults 18 to 49.

The show was the tops in cable during primetime with Sci Fi's target 25-to-54 audience and ranked third among persons 18 to 49.

The installment also marked Battlestar's best live + same day showing in persons 18 to 49 in more than two years (Jan.13, 2006, "Resurrection Ship, Part 2"), and its best performance among persons 25 to 54s since the show's third-season premiere (Oct. 6, 2006).

With 2.1 million total viewers, the fourth-season premiere out-pointed the 1.9 million average for the second half of the third season, which ran on Sunday nights from January through March 2007. It matched the 2.1 million average for the first half of the season (January through March 2006), when it aired in its traditional Friday night slot.
****************

The agressive promos worked. Loved the 8 minute recaps that fast talkin babe did for LOST and BSG


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## net114 (Dec 29, 2000)

I wanted to chime in here that I'm more positive on this series than some others, but I was seriously disappointed with who was revealed to be cylons. I thought they could have done a lot better and it was a bit anti-climatic for me. I think having Adama senior be the last cylon would be way too predictable. 

That said, for a series that you love to hate from episode to episode, try Smallville. In one episode you have Kryptonite gum giving someone super powers and the next real drama....ugh. I watch with one eye closed in the beginning of each episode thinking, "please don't let this be a 'cheerleaders-give-guys-they-want-to-have-sex-with-a-special-potion' episode!! Sorry for the side track, but it's much worse over on the CW shows.


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

busyba said:


> Up until he shaved off the beard, I figured that in the end they will find Earth, and it will be "our" earth, but in 30A.D. and it will turn out that Jesus is actually Baltar.
> 
> Cause, you know, that wouldn't piss anybody off or anything.


Wow... that just gave me chills and I started imagining and writing a spinoff series in my head. Very interesting idea. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.


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## packerfan (Jan 8, 2002)

Waldorf said:


> Wow... that just gave me chills and I started imagining and writing a spinoff series in my head. Very interesting idea. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.


When and if they land on earth, it would be cool if it is our present day earth.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

packerfan said:


> When and if they land on earth, it would be cool if it is our present day earth.


With flying motorcycles!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

kaszeta said:


> With flying motorcycles!


Yeah, but no fingerprints!

Greg


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

Dose anyone know if the show will be rebroadcast? I was out of town friday till today and storms knocked out the power and the livingroom DVR didn't record anything it was suppose to, lost about 6 shows and I'm bummed, but the bedroom one did. Thank You


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

9pm Friday before the next episode @ 10pm


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

gchance said:


> Agreed! I also use that scene as an example of things that come to fruition later in the series. Man if that were Lost, people would be complaining.
> 
> Greg


Nahh the scene I use as an example of things that come to fruition later is from the pilot episode.

When G'Kar and Lyta are discussing his proposition. Talk about waiting for a payoff. You don't get the resolution to that till the next to the last episode in season 5. That my friends is planning.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

BeanMeScot said:


> One that always struck me was in MASH. There was an episode where they took out the appendix of an officer to keep him from waging another campaign and getting people killed and they were pleasd with themselves. In another episode, they take out a healthy appendix to slow down someone and the doctor had this huge crisis of conscience.


But was it the same doctor? I seem recall one was trapper and hawkeye and the other was BJ and hawkeye. BJ always had more of a conscience.


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## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

Is it just me, or is it coincidental that the final 5 all happened to be among the ships that actually survived the nukes, especially if they didn't even know who they were or weren't privy to "the plan"? I suppose instinct could have told them to take themselves to a safe place, but it's not like they KNEW that BSG and the rest of the rag-tag fleet would survive and placed themselves on said ships on purpose... or did they?


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

jking said:


> Is it just me, or is it coincidental that the final 5 all happened to be among the ships that actually survived the nukes, especially if they didn't even know who they were or weren't privy to "the plan"?


Actually, wasn't Anders a survivor on (thoroughly nuked) Caprica, not from one of the ships?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

And who is to say that there weren't other versions of those models throughout the Colonies?


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Hey, anything's possible at this point, right? Each week is a clean slate, and it seems every writers meeting begins with "Wouldn't be cool if...?"


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> Hey, anything's possible at this point, right? Each week is a clean slate, and it seems every writers meeting begins with "Wouldn't be cool if...?"


Yeah, I've given up trying to predict anything, as it's likely they haven't even thought of an answer to any question I might have.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

So are these old characters who were around for the first Cylon war (before the Cylons got religion) always spylons or did they infiltrate and replace the humans with spylon duplicates?


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

I don't think the writers know yet. 

I think we're supposed to assume they are different types of cylons that age normally.


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## jerobi (Sep 28, 2000)

Waldorf said:


> I don't think the writers know yet.


Ding. This whole "these four are Cylons" cliffhanger has an uphill climb ahead of it for the writing staff, as does Kara's resurgence.

I like suspending my belief for TV just fine but they are doing surgery with hacksaws and hammers with these plots.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

IndyJones1023 said:


> One thing I want addressed is how they have all these clues to - and the name of - Earth. That would mean that the 13th colony left, went to Earth, then came back and left clues, and told people back on Caprica all about it. Centuries ago.


I agree w/ you mostly on the "they didn't think about it ahead of time yet" stuff.

But - for this - I think it's all mystical / spiritual crap...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, I've never had a show that I was so split on--where the good parts are so good and the bad parts are so bad. It really drives me crazy, because I want to either love or hate this show, but I can't justify either.
> 
> I hope they'll pull it together for the final season, but from what I've seen in interviews (where they claim making it up as they go along as a virtue!) I remain deeply skeptical about where they're going.
> 
> If they had given the quality of acting, direction, and production to a series set in our time and place, I think the show would have been sheer greatness (because they would have had the characters inhabiting a consistent world). But a lot of that quality is wasted when literally anything can happen; it eliminates most of the inherent tension in their situation, because any time they need to get the characters out of a bind, they'll just make something up with no regard to how it fits in with everything else they've done. If the danger from the Cylons had been real (as it seemed in the first season or so, right up to the networked computers/Boomer fiber optic fiascos), instead of the intense dramatic tension of the show's beginning fizzling away, it could have just grown and grown. But when nothing really matters, it's hard to feel anything beyond the pure performances of the cast...and it's a tribute to the actors that they can carry that much dramatic weight purely on their own.


Thank you!

That's how I feel.

It kills me when I see BSG get so much positive press and critical acclaim. Not that I don't love it but it's SO uneven.

I recently convinced a friend to get into LOST with DVDs and he LOVED it and is SO hooked now.

No way I'm gonna suggest the same with BSG and take criticism from him 



Jeeters said:


> 33 was the very first episode of season 1, post-miniseries. So the series has been all downhill since the first episode?


I haven't rewatched all the episodes but I watched them all when they first aired. I liked - not loved - the mini - but I LOVED "33". That episode sold me on the series.

It's still the one I remember the most. I think it was THAT good.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cwoody222 said:


> I haven't rewatched all the episodes but I watched them all when they first aired. I liked - not loved - the mini - but I LOVED "33". That episode sold me on the series.
> 
> It's still the one I remember the most. I think it was THAT good.


It was a great episode, but also a harginger of doom. I remember when we were trying to hash out the plot on this board (why 33 minutes, how do the Cylons track the fleet, etc.) and were having trouble getting the pieces to fit together. Then somebody heard on the podcast that the writers never even TRIED to make it fit together; they just thought it would be cool. In retrospect I should have started getting suspicious then, but it wasn't until the network firewall episode that it all started crashing down in my mind.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> it wasn't until the network firewall episode that it all started crashing down in my mind.


At least Razor had a better explanation of why the networked stuff was so easy to compromise. (Just like Baltar planing the compromised code in the colonial defense net, the spylons infiltrated themselves into the weapon system development / upgrade cycle and planted compromised code)

Way more sensical than Cylon's magically infecting any networked systems, even if the network is purely local.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was a great episode, but also a harginger of doom. I remember when we were trying to hash out the plot on this board (why 33 minutes, how do the Cylons track the fleet, etc.) and were having trouble getting the pieces to fit together. Then somebody heard on the podcast that the writers never even TRIED to make it fit together; they just thought it would be cool. In retrospect I should have started getting suspicious then, but it wasn't until the network firewall episode that it all started crashing down in my mind.


I have listened to all the podcasts, and it's actually helped with the frustration level. At least now I know that it's not ME that's being dumb when I try and figure out why some plot points just make no sense - I know it's just writers who don't care.


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## bigray327 (Apr 14, 2000)

Rather than getting all wrapped up in aging and where the five spylons were many years ago, you should remember that they were all on Cylon-occupied New Caprica for a long time. All of them could have easily been kidnapped, downloaded, and body-snatched. That would make the whole final five seem a little less hokey to me.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

why do we (and the spylon 7) keep talking about the final 5? it's clear that there are the seven, then another group of four, then a ONE...unless the ONE isn't on Galactica; which is impossible...

unless the ONE is actually three...the one who was, the one who...eh...nah...wrong show


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

Anubys said:


> unless the ONE is actually three...the one who was, the one who...eh...nah...wrong show


See the thread keeps looping back to the greatness that was Babylon 5. 
Zathras': "Not the one"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Ironically, while Babylon 5 also had its share of serious flaws, they are the exact opposite of Battlestar Galactica's. B5 was hampered by hammy acting, cheap sets, and cheesy dialog, but had a lot of sci-fi intelligence and incredible vision and planning. BG, pretty much the opposite. Can you imagine a show that combined their strengths?


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## Ian (Mar 7, 2000)

I think "Babylon Galactica" sounds a lot better than "Battlestar 5", don't you?



-Ian


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ironically, while Babylon 5 also had its share of serious flaws, they are the exact opposite of Battlestar Galactica's. B5 was hampered by hammy acting, cheap sets, and cheesy dialog, but had a lot of sci-fi intelligence and incredible vision and planning. BG, pretty much the opposite. Can you imagine a show that combined their strengths?


Yes.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MickeS said:


> Yes.


OK, sorry, I meant to say a science fiction show! And let's face it, for all its qualities Lost is somewhat short on sci-fi intelligence.

But yes, point well taken. I would add The Wire. I can't think of anything else that qualifies.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> OK, sorry, I meant to say a science fiction show! And let's face it, for all its qualities Lost is somewhat short on sci-fi intelligence.


If this had been during the first season of "Heroes", I might have suggested that instead.


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Would have *loved* to see 5 seasons of Firefly... Given what we have, it's hard to say how it would have held up over multiple seasons, though.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ironically, while Babylon 5 also had its share of serious flaws, they are the exact opposite of Battlestar Galactica's. B5 was hampered by hammy acting, cheap sets, and cheesy dialog, but had a lot of sci-fi intelligence and incredible vision and planning. BG, pretty much the opposite. Can you imagine a show that combined their strengths?


I think part of the reason why we are so disappointed with BSG is that we thought this show would surpass what B5 did...they had "the plan" and the actors, dialog...etc


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I think part of the reason why we are so disappointed with BSG is that we thought this show would surpass what B5 did...they had "the plan" and the actors, dialog...etc


That was certainly the case with me. But there's a difference between Moore et al. talking about "a plan" and JMS quietly spending five years _doing_ it.

Since fairly early in the first season, I've sighed over what might have been with Galactica. There's never been a sci-fi TV show that is pure greatness, but for a moment they had me hoping.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was a great episode, but also a harginger of doom. I remember when we were trying to hash out the plot on this board (why 33 minutes, how do the Cylons track the fleet, etc.) and were having trouble getting the pieces to fit together. Then somebody heard on the podcast that the writers never even TRIED to make it fit together; they just thought it would be cool. In retrospect I should have started getting suspicious then, but it wasn't until the network firewall episode that it all started crashing down in my mind.


Yah, Boomer the 1st (a.k.a. Bad Boomer...maybe I'm confused) inserting the fiber optic cable into her wrist...And spylons' spines glowing when they you-know-what...I thought these conundrums would be answered or revealed with clever sci-fi insights but no. The writer-producers simply showed it 'because it was cool'. What a disappointment.

In contrast, Boomer the 1st's horror and internal ethical conflict upon realizing that she might be, and then probably was a spylon, that was GREAT TV. Contrast those brilliant episodes with the current lame aftermath of the Final 4/5ths behaviours. Loved Starbuck's comment how SHE would handle knowing someone was a spylon! Dialog continues to be a strong point.


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

Yeah, I'm really disappointed that Tigh doesn't just turn himself in. As much as he hates the Cylons and loves Adama, you know that's what he would do. He wouldn't risk turning into a traitor or a bomb.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Speaking of my man Col Tigh, the similarities are uncanny...

http://cmpalmer.blogspot.com/2008/03/john-mccain-is-he-cylon.html

Who knew?

I for one welcome our new robot overlords.


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## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

bigray327 said:


> Rather than getting all wrapped up in aging and where the five spylons were many years ago, you should remember that they were all on Cylon-occupied New Caprica for a long time. All of them could have easily been kidnapped, downloaded, and body-snatched. That would make the whole final five seem a little less hokey to me.


Hoping that the BG writers might be reading this thread......:up:


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

bigray327 said:


> Rather than getting all wrapped up in aging and where the five spylons were many years ago, you should remember that they were all on Cylon-occupied New Caprica for a long time. All of them could have easily been kidnapped, downloaded, and body-snatched. That would make the whole final five seem a little less hokey to me.


I'm not disagreeing with you, BUT, you would then have to rationally explain how this could have happened in a total vacuum on occupied New Caprica. None of the other Cylons now about the final six. How could the humans have been kidnapped, downloaded and swapped without any help from, or any knowledge of or by, any other Cylons? It seems nearly impossible to me. As much as I like the idea, it just seems impossible. Didn't Tyroll say we have been Cylons from the beginning? You would have to reconcile that too.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

aw man i watched one of those specials on chiller from a few weeks ago and they gave away the ending of the series..booooo


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Church AV Guy said:


> ... Didn't Tyroll say we have been Cylons from the beginning? You would have to reconcile that too.


Not really, if the human Tyrol, Anders, Tigh etc. had been successfully cloned both physically & mentally except for a a few additions to their programming, they would not have any memory of being cloned, just living their life from birth to their present time. In fact many other Sci Fi shows have had stories rotating around such a premise.

Eg.

ST:DS9 - S02E19 Whispers - Chief O'Brien kidnapped and replaced by a clone programmed to kill someone aboard DS9
Atlantis S4 reference:


Spoiler



SG-A - S04E18&19 The Kindred - Dr Beckett is found unaware that he died.


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## JerryLBell (May 3, 2002)

ovr8ted said:


> SciFi HD, what's not to like?


:up: SciFi HD is half the reason I dropped cable and went DirecTV!


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Sherminator said:


> Not really, if the human Tyrol, Anders, Tigh etc. had been successfully cloned both physically & mentally except for a a few additions to their programming, they would not have any memory of being cloned, just living their life from birth to their present time. In fact many other Sci Fi shows have had stories rotating around such a premise.
> 
> Eg.
> 
> ...


LA LA LA, LA LA LA!!! [covers ears] Some of us have been letting SG:A build up a backlog on our TIVOs for the lean months ahead...


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