# priority update request 20.4.5 is live (winter update)



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

the priority update page for 20.4.5 is now live:

http://www.tivo.com/priority_20.4.5​
a tweet from margret for premiere owners:


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## MacBrian (Feb 24, 2002)

So I wonder which features will cause us Premiere owners to feel left behind? I hope Amazon Prime isn't one of those....!!!!


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Rumor has it this update comes with Amazon Prime and Vudu - I am guessing that is where they are drawing the line @ the new OTA apps.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

bradleys said:


> Rumor has it this update comes with Amazon Prime and Vudu - I am guessing that is where they are drawing the line @ the new OTA apps.


so it's not the hardware, it's a decision to exclude premieres from getting newly added features? if that's the case, why blame the hardware?

if it's speed, i'd like to option to "opt in" if i'm willing to tolerate the slowness without tivo tech support.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> so it's not the hardware, it's a decision to exclude premieres from getting newly added features? if that's the case, why blame the hardware?
> 
> if it's speed, i'd like to option to "opt in" if i'm willing to tolerate the slowness without tivo tech support.


This is a WAG from my position - I have no idea what TiVo is or isn't going to do and I have no idea why TiVo will or will not make those decisions.

Will TiVo offer these new OTA apps on the Premiere line? Can the Premiere line handle the new OTA apps well? Is TiVo looking for a differentiator between the Premiere and Roamio lines?

I don't have any of those answers...


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

bradleys said:


> Rumor has it this update comes with Amazon Prime and Vudu - I am guessing that is where they are drawing the line @ the new OTA apps.


Good thing they got the new HSN Shopping OTA app before they drew the line.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> so it's not the hardware, it's a decision to exclude premieres from getting newly added features? if that's the case, why blame the hardware?


That's not what TiVo Margret's tweet says.

It's well known that the Roamio hardware is faster than the Premiere's. (Menus come to mind.)

Of course I can't blame them for not porting some of this functionality backwards, but the same thing happens on all technology. Look at smartphones.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm pretty happy the Premiere has gotten so many of the latest updates, they have helped keep me away from upgrading sooner. It only makes sense that would come to an end at some point.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

waynomo said:


> It's well known that the Roamio hardware is faster than the Premiere's. (Menus come to mind.)


speed is not a function. her quote says:


> ...the newer/faster hardware enables additional functionality.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> speed is not a function. her quote says:


You lost me.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

waynomo said:


> You lost me.


Me too. Perhaps the update will detect the platform and turn on options? Just guessing of course. It's that "but" in her post that's confusing.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

waynomo said:


> You lost me.


it's suspected she's hinting premieres are not getting the new vudu or amazon prime apps. if those new apps are considered additional hardware functionality, then her tweet makes sense. otherwise, it doesn't, at least not to me. i've never viewed new software apps as an additional hardware functionality.

maybe she's talking about something else?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I see what you're saying. An app is basically an app. What's the big deal? 

Did I get that right?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

waynomo said:


> I see what you're saying. An app is basically an app. What's the big deal?
> 
> Did I get that right?


no.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

waynomo said:


> I see what you're saying. An app is basically an app. What's the big deal?
> 
> Did I get that right?


Probably right, but I'm no expert. Vudu can do 1080p (I have it on my Blu-ray). Perhaps that's a hardware thing? Just guessing. I have Hulu+ on all my stuff, and Amazon (not prime).


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## bradenmcg (Dec 29, 2007)

The new apps are supposedly using HTML5 internally, and possibly streaming video with the same method. This usually takes more guts on the hardware end to do. The Premiere may not have it.

- [thumbed from a phone] -


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

NorthAlabama said:


> it's suspected she's hinting premieres are not getting the new vudu or amazon prime apps. if those new apps are considered additional hardware functionality, then her tweet makes sense. otherwise, it doesn't, at least not to me. i've never viewed new software apps as an additional hardware functionality.
> 
> maybe she's talking about something else?


She didn't say anything about additional hardware functionality... She said "the newer/faster hardware (of the Roamio over the Premiere) enables additional functionality"

This means certain software components will be delivered to the Roamio Line and excluded from the Premiere line. Probably OTA apps...


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

bradenmcg said:


> The new apps are supposedly using HTML5 internally, and possibly streaming video with the same method. This usually takes more guts on the hardware end to do. The Premiere may not have it.
> 
> - [thumbed from a phone] -


I thought one of the last updates streamlined the software, so Premiere should have HTML5 apps al ready.


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

ajwees41 said:


> I thought one of the last updates streamlined the software, so Premiere should have HTML5 apps al ready.


Is everyone arguing semantics in this thread, or is there genuine misunderstanding?

The Roamio and Minis have dramatically more capable hardware that Premieres. The newer generation chips likely have dedicated capabilities in hardware for functions that were software-driven in the old Premiere, and can simply run much more code in the same timeframe due to faster clock rates, optimizations, larger caches, etc

Its likely that the older hardware lacks sufficient horsepower or dedicated hardware to drive software functionality satisfactorily with the current OS software. E.g. The new apps might not be able to buffer, decompress, render the streams in real-time while driving the app's UI and allof Tivos's background functions.

Factor in that the new Haxe-based software that the Tivos are running was 85% converted using automated tools, which means limited "hand" optimization of the code. The little publicly shared info about the conversion talks about missing software tools that Tivo had to build when converting to Haxe. We're only a few months out from the first version, and they have been busy adding features and apps and squashing bugs vs optimizations.

Look at it this way... You could install Windows 8 on a Pentium 66mhz (if MS flipped the software switches in the installer to allow it). It might take a week or two to boot of course...

With additional optimizations in all of the many layers of the software stack, anything is possible for the Premieres... it all depends on Tivo's prioritization of programming resources. That said, as the features and functionality of apps grow, there will be apps that simply require more cpu horsepower, memory and other hardware resources than the Premiere can provide.

So if optimizations are coming, but the app(s) are ready now, they either release it now and disappoint Premiere owners, or hold it back and disappoint everyone.

Aside from that, as with all electronics of this type, at some point a line will be drawn, at first to differentiate the newer products and then move it down through the levels of support, heading to retirement.

I dont have inside info, I've just overseen projects of this sort in the past.... Wow, I can really get going sometimes. Sorry! lol


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## wlexx (May 14, 2010)

While having all these apps is good, I still prefer that they spend more time improving and fixing issues related to core DVR functionality, e.g the issue with the overlapping recordings on the same channel, a more flexible and better management of the buffers, better streaming, etc. 
The are so many other devices that can already do the apps functionality e.g. Roku, PS3, smart Tvs etc of which I am most people already have one or another.





Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

wlexx said:


> While having all these apps is good, I still prefer that they spend more time improving and fixing issues related to core DVR functionality, e.g the issue with the overlapping recordings on the same channel, a more flexible and better management of the buffers, better streaming, etc.
> The are so many other devices that can already do the apps functionality e.g. Roku, PS3, smart Tvs etc of which I am most people already have one or another.


I don't, and frankly I absolutely hate having to change the input on my TV. We do have a Blu Ray and anytime the wife or kids want to watch a DVD, I have to go set the dang thing up for them.

I know the issues you list exist, although I am not sure I have ever experienced any of them. In any case, TiVo should probably address them - but most people won't notice.

Simply considering the 90/10 rule and what will bring more functionality and better sales for TiVo - these OTT apps are a must have.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

Installing the update now .....


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

andyf said:


> Installing the update now .....


do you have a roamio or premiere?


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

I have Roamio and two Premieres.


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

My TiVo restarted/crashed and is installing an update while I was in the middle of recording. Laughs my butt off


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## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

Ok update finished, I see no difference. *Shrugs* Oh well. Maybe I'll come across something in time.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

JWhites said:


> Ok update finished, I see no difference. *Shrugs* Oh well. Maybe I'll come across something in time.


I read one post and also am starting to think the amazon appps will/should show up soon something like the HSn app took awhile to be live.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

lgnad said:


> Is everyone arguing semantics in this thread, or is there genuine misunderstanding?
> 
> The Roamio and Minis have dramatically more capable hardware that Premieres. The newer generation chips likely have dedicated capabilities in hardware for functions that were software-driven in the old Premiere, and can simply run much more code in the same timeframe due to faster clock rates, optimizations, larger caches, etc
> 
> ...


so if they were going to leave the premiere out why take the time to rewrite/streamline the software?


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## lgnad (Feb 14, 2013)

ajwees41 said:


> so if they were going to leave the premiere out why take the time to rewrite/streamline the software?


Um, because the OS runs on all current platforms?
...And if they wanted to stay in business, they had to get the OS off of the dead-end of flash.

Why bother updating the Premiere at all?
Because the performance and feature improvements that have come along are essentially "free" for Tivo to give away to the Premieres. It makes them look good to the cableco partners that have rolled out a lot of Premiere-generation hardware, and there is no downside for retail customers, either.

Whos to say this isnt a staggered rollout, that perhaps improvements in code efficiency for the Premiere hardware in one of the software sub-systems isnt ready for supporting whatever is being held back in this release, as of yet?

Meanwhile, they are continuing to update, patch and add features to a living platform that has many software layers, supporting a wide variety of features from different eras. Its like repairing a bridge that connects to a major city, they have to keep it up and running even as different sub-systems are modernized, and plan them out well ahead of time to avoid complete breakdowns.

Software projects have specific timeframes to complete, and throwing more programmers at specific blocks of code yields exponentially diminishing increases in production. As more parts of the software get hands-on attention vs automated conversion using early-generation tools, and as the compilers and other tools that tivo and other Haxe developers have had to build improve in their own quality, the quality and performance of the code will continue to improve.

IF, and only if, Tivo feels that potential performance improvements of the software warrants continued investment, of course. Tivo has demonstrated a pretty strong will in this direction with the massive conversion effort and the increased rate of updates since it was rolled out, so far.

Again, sorry for rambling on lol


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

ajwees41 said:


> so if they were going to leave the premiere out why take the time to rewrite/streamline the software?


One possibility is the number of Premieres their cable partners have in their inventory and on rent with cable customers...


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## consumedsoul (Jan 13, 2013)

ajwees41 said:


> I read one post and also am starting to think the amazon appps will/should show up soon something like the HSn app took awhile to be live.


Updated from 20.4.4a-USA-6-846 to 20.4.5-USA-6-846, Amazon Instant Video still the old UI indeed. I haven't noticed any other changes...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

wlexx said:


> _*While having all these apps is good, I still prefer that they spend more time improving and fixing issues related to core DVR functionality*_, e.g the issue with the overlapping recordings on the same channel, a more flexible and better management of the buffers, better streaming, etc.
> The are so many other devices that can already do the apps functionality e.g. Roku, PS3, smart Tvs etc of which I am most people already have one or another...


This. I get kinda tired about those who ramble on about apps. I have a Panny plazma and a BD player that can access any of these apps (and very well thank you) should I choose to use them.

I use my TiVo for one basic function 99% of the time and that's time shifting programming. Improve that, please, before catering to the elitists who supposedly use these apps "all the time"....


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

Looks like I got the update, too. Now running 20.4.5-01-2-748 on a Premier XL. However, I still don't see an Amazon Prime app.


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## beobuff (Feb 7, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> This. I get kinda tired about those who ramble on about apps. I have a Panny plazma and a BD player that can access any of these apps (and very well thank you) should I choose to use them.
> 
> I use my TiVo for one basic function 99% of the time and that's time shifting programming. Improve that, please, before catering to the elitists who supposedly use these apps "all the time"....


+1


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

MichaelAinNB said:


> Looks like I got the update, too. Now running 20.4.5-01-2-748 on a Premier XL. However, I still don't see an Amazon Prime app.


you won't be getting a different Amazon app for the Premiere...this was confirmed yesterday. Only the new Roamio hardware gets Vudu and Amazon Prime streaming


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## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

Bummer, what about minis?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Yes, the Mini will be getting the new Amazon Streaming app. It hasn't deployed yet for some reason.


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

MacBrian said:


> So I wonder which features will cause us Premiere owners to feel left behind? I hope Amazon Prime isn't one of those....!!!!


Not a big deal....I have Roku....already get these services.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

spaldingclan said:


> you won't be getting a different Amazon app for the Premiere...this was confirmed yesterday. Only the new Roamio hardware gets Vudu and Amazon Prime streaming


Thanks. Learned this earlier today from another forum. I wonder if this is a ploy on TiVo's part to try and get current Premier owners to upgrade to a Roamio. If so, it will fail miserably with me.

Way to look out for your long time subscribers TiVo.


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## muzzymate (Sep 2, 2004)

Looks like Premiere boxes will get Vudu and Amazon Prime sometime in 2015.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/527575124904796161


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

muzzymate said:


> Looks like Premiere boxes will get Vudu and Amazon Prime sometime in 2015.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/527575124904796161


Well that is good news!


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

bradleys said:


> Well that is good news!


You'll forgive me if I take a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach to this news. Why would they wait several more months and another update to provide Amazon Prime and Vudu to Premier owners? And I have to wonder if it will only effect a certain Premier model, like the XL4. I'm more than a little skeptical of anything TiVo says right now.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

I haven't seen the actual changes that this latest update is supposed to contain. Did someone ever post this?


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

lujan said:


> I haven't seen the actual changes that this latest update is supposed to contain. Did someone ever post this?


looks like Rooamio's might have gotten them Premiere in 2015.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

MichaelAinNB said:


> You'll forgive me if I take a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach to this news. Why would they wait several more months and another update to provide Amazon Prime and Vudu to Premier owners? And I have to wonder if it will only effect a certain Premier model, like the XL4. I'm more than a little skeptical of anything TiVo says right now.


i would like to now also I thought one of the last software updates combined the versions so that updates would be easier.


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## Blakeintosh (Sep 8, 2014)

Are people still getting the 20.4.5 update? I signed up my Pro and Mini's for the priority release 3 days ago and still haven't been able to get the update by connecting to TiVo Service. Seems like in the past, the update would download the next day after priority signup.


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## Joe Siegler (May 10, 2000)

"VUDU Launches on TiVo!"

http://blog.tivo.com/2014/10/vudu-launches-on-tivo/

The relevant bit..



> TiVo users can expect the VUDU application to appear on their TiVo Roamio DVRs and TiVo Mini devices during a rolling update over the next few weeks.


Nothing about other models there.


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## MichaelAinNB (Dec 28, 2013)

Bierboy said:


> This. I get kinda tired about those who ramble on about apps. I have a Panny plazma and a BD player that can access any of these apps (and very well thank you) should I choose to use them.
> 
> I use my TiVo for one basic function 99% of the time and that's time shifting programming. Improve that, please, before catering to the elitists who supposedly use these apps "all the time"....


Just like you using your TiVo for a fraction of what it's capable of doing doesn't make you ignorant, those of us who want to use the device to the fullest extent of its capabilities doesn't make us elitists.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

MichaelAinNB said:


> Why would they wait several more months and another update to provide Amazon Prime and Vudu to Premier owners?


Premiere owners should count their lucky stars (I'm in this group) that it is coming at all. Updates have to stop sometime, and this really did feel like a reasonable place. I'm in the camp where the updates are giving me no reason to move to the next box, as I have a much speedier service and more features than when I initially purchased.

However, Tivo needs sales, and so I'm betting they did not need as much code optimization to release on the Roamio with its beefier processor. In other words, it was quicker/cheaper to enhance and test for just one platform prior to Christmas sales than it would be to enhance the experience at the same time for those who will not generate additional revenue.

A business decision, one that makes sense to me even though I have to wait. Now, if I were an investor, I would question the logic here and not release any new features to the Premiere at all.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I agree... And maybe just a little incentive for the impatient to upgrade! 

If I hadn't already upgraded, I would probably be heading out and picking a unit up just to play with the new toys - but that is the way I role!


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

lujan said:


> I haven't seen the actual changes that this latest update is supposed to contain. Did someone ever post this?


LOL, the only changes I have seen is that because of the reboot, I had to redo the backdoor code to regain the quick progress bar clear. Heck, there wasn't even a message saying that the software was updated.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

jrtroo said:


> Premiere owners should count their lucky stars (I'm in this group) that it is coming at all. Updates have to stop sometime, and this really did feel like a reasonable place. I'm in the camp where the updates are giving me no reason to move to the next box, as I have a much speedier service and more features than when I initially purchased.
> 
> However, Tivo needs sales, and so I'm betting they did not need as much code optimization to release on the Roamio with its beefier processor. In other words, it was quicker/cheaper to enhance and test for just one platform prior to Christmas sales than it would be to enhance the experience at the same time for those who will not generate additional revenue.
> 
> A business decision, one that makes sense to me even though I have to wait. Now, if I were an investor, I would question the logic here and not release any new features to the Premiere at all.


the summer update ported the Roamio UI to Premiere if they were not going to still support Premiere why port the UI/


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

tivo margret posted release notes today:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522422​
i just downloaded and installed, it went very quickly.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

ajwees41 said:


> the summer update ported the Roamio UI to Premiere if they were not going to still support Premiere why port the UI/


And they clearly ARE going to support it. She's publicly announced that Premiere units will get these apps next year.

Why not now? Who knows, could be many reasons--hardware issues, processor stability, marketing driven, whatever. Maybe it's as simple as seeing what issues they have on their top tier product before they roll it down. Or maybe they want to fine tune it some more before putting it a less-capable processor. Would you rather they roll it out now, then find out it's a resource hog, so you could complain about how poorly it works?

She said the Premiere will get it. Is there some part of her statement you don't understand? What makes you think "they were not going to still support Premiere"?

Enough with the sour grapes already. I'm not just picking on you (although I am), but all these people who whine because an older hardware platform doesn't get the exact same update at the exact same time as newer products.

Life ain't fair, now get over it.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

astrohip said:


> And they clearly ARE going to support it. She's publicly announced that Premiere units will get these apps next year.
> 
> Why not now? Who knows, could be many reasons--hardware issues, processor stability, marketing driven, whatever. Maybe it's as simple as seeing what issues they have on their top tier product before they roll it down. Or maybe they want to fine tune it some more before putting it a less-capable processor. Would you rather they roll it out now, then find out it's a resource hog, so you could complain about how poorly it works?
> 
> ...


You better read her words more closely,


> *At this time*, I *expect* both VUDU and the new Amazon Instant Video app to be available on TiVo Premiere in the first half of 2015.


Those words are not a guarantee at all.

Here is a reply I finally got back from TiVo tonight after two days of waiting,


> We plan to release these applications to the TiVo Premiere boxes in a later software update but do not currently have an estimation as to when this will become available.


There does not seem to be any certainty in those words either.

Also I can apply the same logic to the Roamio line as these apps were not included in the original manufacturer of the unit so why does it get any special treatment than the Premiere units since they were still selling new Premieres up until late spring of this year. 
I paid over $1300 for my two Premiere 4s a month before the Roamio was released. So TiVo should blow me off because I bought a Premiere. That would be very stupid business practice as adding these apps to the Premiere now would not affect future sales of Roamios as the Premieres are no longer available for sale. It would be a good jester to show to future TiVo customers that they will not be left in the weeds if they buy their products especially at the price TiVo asks for them.

Also there is devices that have much older and slower hardware that have Amazon Prime embedded in them. So this is a moot point.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Jed1 said:


> You better read her words more closely,
> 
> Those words are not a guarantee at all.
> 
> ...


You ought to review your posts before you hit send; I doubt you actually intended to come off this painfully complaining and illogical.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

ej42137 said:


> You ought to review your posts before you hit send; I doubt you actually intended to come off this painfully complaining and illogical.


Not to mention the spelling and grammatical errors. Your arguments--even if well reasoned--are less likely to be taken seriously if you don't take the trouble to express them cogently. ("Jester"? Really?)


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## tivoboy (Jan 14, 2002)

All my minis were updated a couple days ago, nice.. streaming amazon prime! and VUDU!


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## kherr (Aug 1, 2006)

All we need now is a DLNA client for the Mini and I won't have to buy another WD TV LIVE. Someone somewhere said that supposedly that PLEX is in the works. Not as useful (for me any way) as a generic client, but it'll do. Just have to hold out though ....


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