# Lost 4-15-09 Some Like it Hoth



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

A good filler ep. Not mindblowing, but good stuff nonetheless. So we now know Marvin Candle's connection, Miles's power, and that Daniel is still alive.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

What was the previous reference of the 3.2 Million that Miles mentioned?


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## Unseen Llama (Nov 29, 2005)

billboard_NE said:


> What was the previous reference of the 3.2 Million that Miles mentioned?


I believe that's how much he asked Ben to pay him in exchange for his life...or to let him go...can't remember.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sorry, Hurley, I'm with Miles. That's just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. 

I wouldn't say it's a filler episode. There were no big reveals, but I think a lot of important pieces were moved into place. This is the kind of episode that makes the HFC! episodes possible.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

So you're an Asian guy on a island, and there's, apparently, only one other Asian guy on the entire island, so you give your son the same name?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> So you're an Asian guy on a island, and there's, apparently, only one other Asian guy on the entire island, so you give your son the same name?


I'd call it inscruitable


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Face it dude, the Ewoks sucked.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Sorry, Hurley, I'm with Miles. That's just about the dumbest idea I've ever heard.
> 
> I wouldn't say it's a filler episode. There were no big reveals, but I think a lot of important pieces were moved into place. This is the kind of episode that makes the HFC! episodes possible.


I agree. While not mythology heavy and lighter in tone, I don't think this was filler. Very funny episode. Though I have to admit the scene of Miles watching his dad holding baby Miles was quite touching.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I'm waiting for someone to say "but Chang isn't his father"



I was glad to see that plot point clearly answered with no wiggle room

Diane


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Liked it.
(Laurie fell asleep 1/2 way through.. I'll have to watch it again with her tomorrow. Still going to rewatch now. ..and no, I didn't place in the money.. $10 buyin, only about 8 of us playing, nothing big)

Liked the explanation he told the father of why he gave his money back.

What're they gonna do with Phil?

What's Daniel been doing in Ann Arbor?

When Hurley asks about what the Orchid station is, why should Pierre reply "It's classified"? Shouldn't he say it's a botanical research station?

Pierre said "Hurley" so many times I half expected Pierre to go teach it to his extra-large parrot and call it the Hurley Bird.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> When Hurley asks about what the Orchid station is, why should Pierre reply "It's classified"? Shouldn't he say it's a botanical research station?


Because Pierre's a self-important dick who wants to put the little people into their place?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I noticed they spent an awful lot of time showing us another picture frame.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Because Pierre's a self-important dick who wants to put the little people into their place?


Right but I mean they have a cover story, and by saying "it's classified" you kind of blow your cover story.. Why would studying flowers be classified? Aha - it's a front! Bam - secret just let out of the bag, to this new guy you just met.. what was his name again? Oh yes.. Hhuuuurrrlleeyy...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

That landlord looked awful familiar.


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## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

So the van people arent with Ben and they are against Widmore....so who are they "with"?


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I wouldn't have thought they could pull off a Miles episode - but I liked it.
Pretty touching as he was watching his dad read to him. And when Marvin said "Miles, I need you" and Miles replied emotionally 'You do?'. Good stuff.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

michad said:


> So the van people arent with Ben and they are against Widmore....so who are they "with"?


I had that same question.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

michad said:


> So the van people arent with Ben and they are against Widmore....so who are they "with"?


I think a reconstituted DHARMA. Ultimatley, Ben and Widmore are on the same side: protecting the Island. DHARMA is trying to take the island back.


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

michad said:


> So the van people arent with Ben and they are against Widmore....so who are they "with"?


How do you figure the van people are not with Ben?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

michad said:


> So the van people arent with Ben and they are against Widmore....so who are they "with"?





Gunnyman said:


> I had that same question.


We figured that out at the end of last week's thread. They're Dharma!


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## michad (Sep 9, 2002)

billboard_NE said:


> How do you figure the van people are not with Ben?


Since they "saw" Ben in and around the crash and there were no winks/nods.

I have to go reread last weeks thread and see about the new Dharma info.


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## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

I noticed Jack erasing an "Ancient Egypt" history lesson off the chalkboard in the classroom....didnt catch it all though


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh, and the biggest answer! Now we know what the numbers were! The serial number on the door for the hatch. There we go!  Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that's it - the only real reason for the numbers, and the rest of the occurances were created by things they did (like broadcast it, etc). I'm sure we'll see more about it though, I'd guess this season.

It certainly makes the side game with the Valenzetti(sp) equations feel a little less canon though, doesn't it? If that were indeed what the numbers were, would they also happen to make those numbers the 'serial number for the door'? (Unless it's just as random as all of the other occurances)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Right but I mean they have a cover story, and by saying "it's classified" you kind of blow your cover story.. Why would studying flowers be classified? Aha - it's a front! Bam - secret just let out of the bag, to this new guy you just met.. what was his name again? Oh yes.. Hhuuuurrrlleeyy...


But if your message is "I'm important and you're not," then "It's a botanical research station" just doesn't cut it.

And if you're a self-important dick, then asserting dominance over peons takes priority over operational security.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

michad said:


> I have to go reread last weeks thread and see about the new Dharma info.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7210632#post7210632

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7210872#post7210872

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7212351#post7212351


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> When Hurley asks about what the Orchid station is, why should Pierre reply "It's classified"? Shouldn't he say it's a botanical research station?


...where they feed the plants dead people?

And the heavy construction?

I think "It's classified" worked perfectly. Head Science Guy likes to end conversations quickly and definitely.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Loved the Daniel appearance at the end. We knew he'd show up in 1977 soon enough, but to do so with such confidence was cool. Looked to me he had the firmest grasp of what the hell is going on out of everyone.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> We figured that out at the end of last week's thread. They're Dharma!


Oh the whole shadow of the statue code I'd forgotten about that.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Random data:

Mr. Vonner was the name of the first dead guy Miles ever heard talking.
That guy had a big painting in his livingroom of a sandy beach with grass.
There's also another smaller picture between it and the refrigerator in a brown frame.
Vonner's late wife's name was Kimberly.

Sports Illustrated cover: "After 23 years.. New Boss in L.A. Tom Lasorda" (just a number reference)

By the way, I love that there are things called Pylons on this show.. Land of the Lost from the very start. 

"I was expecting LaFleur!"
"LaFleur's busy. Horance sent me instead. (pause). I'm in the circle of trust."


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

How/why did the dead guy get shot?

They did a DAMNED good job making Miles look really young.. the chin studs 100&#37; distracted me from the actor's age.

I initially wondered if when he saw his mother in bed if she was already dead or not.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Even though it was Miles-centric, this was one of Hurley's best episodes!

Re-writing the Star Wars trilogy... deriving analogy to his friend's father issues from it, trying to reconcile them...

Finally, was Hurley's claim that he could talk to the dead true, or a load of crap he was laying on Miles to try to get Miles to open up and talk about his ability? I think the latter but, I'm not sure.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

When Miles asks his mom where his dad's body is, and she says "Somewhere you can never go", I now wonder if instead of her just meaning "see, it's this island that's really hard to find" she instead means "don't go there - you'll get sick and die..", and she/Miles left at the same time as Charlotte and her mom.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> Even though it was Miles-centric, this was one of Hurley's best episodes!
> 
> Re-writing the Star Wars trilogy... deriving analogy to his friend's father issues from it, trying to reconcile them...
> 
> Finally, was Hurley's claim that he could talk to the dead true, or a load of crap he was laying on Miles to try to get Miles to open up and talk about his ability? I think the latter but, I'm not sure.


Clearly the latter


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> How/why did the dead guy get shot?


He wasn't shot. The fatal wound only _looked_ like a bullet wound.

A sudden surge of magnetic force at The Swan, where he was working on its construction, pulled a filling out of a tooth and right through his skull. What looked like a bullet wound was where the filling exited.

Miles learned this by "talking" to him in the van, and told Hurley.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Finally, was Hurley's claim that he could talk to the dead true, or a load of crap he was laying on Miles to try to get Miles to open up and talk about his ability? I think the latter but, I'm not sure.


Hurley certainly believes it, and we've seen the people he sees.. Charlie, Anna Lucia, etc. He was playing chess with Mr. Ekko but the actor probably didn't want to go to Hawaii because we didn't see him.

Now, whether that's actually a "power", or whether Hurley is just insane, is another question.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> Clearly the latter


No, clearly true. At least in his mind.

He talks to Charlie all the time.

[edit] And Jeff beats me to the punch! Even after a hard night of poker!


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Secret mission? What plans? What are you talking about?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, clearly true. At least in his mind.
> 
> He talks to Charlie all the time.
> 
> [edit] And Jeff beats me to the punch! Even after a hard night of poker!


Woohoo!


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Thoughts so far:

1. Hi, Fishman! Good to see you back.

2. I really enjoyed the Star Wars references. It would be fun to see the Ep V script with Hurley's "couple of improvements."

3. Kudos, Delta 13, for what's really looking like a good catch on Bram, Ilana et al. (You too, JKeegan, but Delta got there first.)

4. I loved Dan's return and am looking forward to finding out what he's been up to.

5. My favorite moment of the whole episode was Sawyer/LaFleur thanking Jack for filling him in on the Roger/Kate situation. I love that the writers hung a lantern on the Losties _finally_ telling each other what they know!


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

The dead guy wasn't shot: he entered a magnetic field, and his filling got pulled out through his skull.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> The dead guy wasn't shot: he entered a magnetic field, and his filling got pulled out through his skull.


Yeah... like when all the metal stuff flew around that time <<<insert character here>>> did something to some machine in <<<insert episode number here>>>.

Speaking of which, how many episodes have there been?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

More random data:

Dead guy's name was Alvarez, and he was thinking about Andrea.

Football player son's number was 59 (again, just random, in case we want to search for it months from now). His name was Russell.

When Roger said he was pretty far from ok, I couldn't remember where I'd heard the real quote, "I'm pretty ****ing far from okay", so I looked it up. Pulp Fiction. "Nah man, I'm pretty ****ing far from okay".

(random data) Felix was the name of the dead guy who was giving photos to Widmore of the empty graves and the purchase order for the old plane. Did Tom kill him and end up with those photos (to give to Michael)?


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> The dead guy wasn't shot: he entered a magnetic field, and his filling got pulled out through his skull.


Have fillings ever been made of a ferrous material? I know silver and gold have been used, and these days they use a composite or ceramic. A magnetic field wouldn't' affect a filling. Even back in the civil war, they didn't use ferrous materials - they were too hard to shape. They used lead, tin, gold, platinum, silver, and even asbestos.

I really liked this as a standalone ep. The Star Wars references had me laughing and I liked the Miles backstory.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

justen_m said:


> Have fillings ever been made of a ferrous material? I know silver and gold have been used, and these days they use a composite or ceramic. A magnetic field wouldn't' affect a filling. Even back in the civil war, they didn't use ferrous materials - they were too hard to shape. They used lead, tin, gold, platinum, silver, and even asbestos.
> 
> I really liked this as a standalone ep. The Star Wars references had me laughing and I liked the Miles backstory.


Regardless, that's what happened. At least that's what the dead guy told Miles.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

justen_m said:


> Have fillings ever been made of a ferrous material? I know silver and gold have been used, and these days they use a composite or ceramic. A magnetic field wouldn't' affect a filling. Even back in the civil war, they didn't use ferrous materials - they were too hard to shape. They used lead, tin, gold, platinum, silver, and even asbestos.


In the 1977 time frame, the most likely material for a filling to be made of would be silver. (I have a couple in my teeth that were put in around that time.  )

Of course, silver is not magnetic.

Neither is aluminum, and the hatch presumably "pulled flight 815 from the sky."

Either the writers are a bit fast and loose with physics, or the phenomenon in the swan station went beyond simple "magnetism".


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

I wish I hadn't seen the title of the episode before watching it, when Hurley asked how to spell bounty hunter I guessed exactly what he was doing. I don't think I'd have known without the title giving it away.

Great episode, the scene with Miles watching his dad with the baby was great. With that and Kate's goodbye to Aaron, Lost is really pulling on the old parent heartstrings lately.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I had totally forgotten about the title while watching, so the "Empire" thing was a total surprise. But I loved Hurley in this ep all around, being the therapist guy/Star Wars philospher. 

It's good to get some more backstory about Miles too. It makes him a bit more sympathetic.


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> 3. Kudos, Delta 13, for what's really looking like a good catch on Bram, Ilana et al. (You too, JKeegan, but Delta got there first.)


What was the "good catch"?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> A good filler ep. Not mindblowing, but good stuff nonetheless. So we now know Marvin Candle's connection, Miles's power, and that Daniel is still alive.





brermike said:


> I agree. While not mythology heavy and lighter in tone, I don't think this was filler. Very funny episode. Though I have to admit the scene of Miles watching his dad holding baby Miles was quite touching.


Not filler in the least bit, although Lindelof did say in last week's podcast that this was in part designed to be a lighter episode because the rest of the season's gonna kick our asses.



tgrim1 said:


> I noticed Jack erasing an "Ancient Egypt" history lesson off the chalkboard in the classroom....didnt catch it all though


It was mostly obscured, I ran it back a few times. Something about God, an Egyptian-ish symbol with an arrow point down to 2600... but we couldn't see the rest of it.



jkeegan said:


> Oh, and the biggest answer! Now we know what the numbers were! The serial number on the door for the hatch. There we go!  Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if that's it - the only real reason for the numbers, and the rest of the occurances were created by things they did (like broadcast it, etc). I'm sure we'll see more about it though, I'd guess this season.


Yup, although the numbers could be significant for entering into the computer, in that after the incident it's identifying who is where.



Fish Man said:


> Re-writing the Star Wars trilogy... deriving analogy to his friend's father issues from it, trying to reconcile them....


Except Hurley's not smart enough to write Jar Jar Binks out of Episode I.



Fish Man said:


> In the 1977 time frame, the most likely material for a filling to be made of would be silver. (I have a couple in my teeth that were put in around that time.  )
> 
> Of course, silver is not magnetic.
> 
> ...


I don't know specifically about fillings, but I was always told that technically metals that "aren't magnetic" ARE magnetic, but our magnets aren't powerful enough to be attracted to them. This is one powerful magnetic force, remember the key? It was attracted by the magnetic force, and keys are typically made of "nonmagnetic" metal such as aluminum. Yet, it was pulled towards it. Powerful.

Then again this is the 6th grade science my almost-40-year-old brain is trying to remember.

Greg


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

gchance said:


> I don't know specifically about fillings, but I was always told that technically metals that "aren't magnetic" ARE magnetic, but our magnets aren't powerful enough to be attracted to them. This is one powerful magnetic force, remember the key? It was attracted by the magnetic force, and keys are typically made of "nonmagnetic" metal such as aluminum. Yet, it was pulled towards it. Powerful.
> 
> Then again this is the 6th grade science my almost-40-year-old brain is trying to remember.
> 
> Greg


Good point, you are right about that. Everything is affected by a magnetic field to some extent. This might just be an indication that is is a superpowerful magnetic field.

I thought keys were made of steel, but apparently I'm wrong. I just tested my keys with a magnet, and only one of my keys is steel. So the key is another pointer that this is a superpowerful field.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> So you're an Asian guy on a island, and there's, apparently, only one other Asian guy on the entire island, so you give your son the same name?


Are you saying the Dharma Initiative isn't an equal opportunity employer?



jkeegan said:


> Sports Illustrated cover: "After 23 years.. New Boss in L.A. Tom Lasorda" (just a number reference)


I remember reading that issue of SI. Lasorda taking over for Alston was a big deal in LA at the time.

I thought this was a good episode.
While not a "WHAM" episode, it moves the plot along and sets up for the next segment while giving us an excellent look into Miles' character.
And Hurley was in top form tonight which is always a plus.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> The dead guy wasn't shot: he entered a magnetic field, and his filling got pulled out through his skull.


Proving once again that you should never face exotic matter with your head down. 

The best line was the look that Miles gave Dr Candle when he said his favorite music was country. The beginning shot was a microwave with a clock that said "3:16". Nice piece of tongue in cheek.

My guess in last week's thread, such as it is, is that Ilana and Co. are actually Dharma. Tonight's ep didn't exactly confirm it, but it sure looks more interesting.

And maybe we're missing another point of Hoth and Empire Strikes Back and "bounty hunter" - if Dharma is the evil Empire, then maybe they're coming back. Or I'm just stretching the Star Wars reference a smidgen.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> Loved the Daniel appearance at the end. We knew he'd show up in 1977 soon enough, but to do so with such confidence was cool. Looked to me he had the firmest grasp of what the hell is going on out of everyone.


Very nice, indeed. Now we know what Sawyer meant by "He's gone." Gone to Ann Arbor, you mean. He didn't look nutty or crazy either, just as cool as the other side of the pillow. :up:


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## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> Very nice, indeed. Now we know what Sawyer meant by "He's gone." Gone to Ann Arbor, you mean. He didn't look nutty or crazy either, just as cool as the other side of the pillow. :up:


Billy Dee Williams?!


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

brermike said:


> I agree. While not mythology heavy and lighter in tone, I don't think this was filler. Very funny episode. Though I have to admit the scene of Miles watching his dad holding baby Miles was quite touching.


I agree. I have no idea why anyone would call this episode "filler". Lots of fun and interesting stuff happened, and then the ending when Faraday returned.

I wonder what will happen to Sawyer's knocked out co-worker.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

So Hurley parallels the relationship of Miles and Chang to The Empire Strikes Back, where Luke doesn't just accept it and winds up losing his hand...recall how in the orientation films Chang (then Marvin Candle) looks to have a prosthetic hand when referring to the incident. Nice setup!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> ...while giving us an excellent look into Miles' character.


Indeed.

This is exactly the reason why I recommend patience with this show. People were complaining about not knowing why Miles is even ON the show; I'd say we probably have half the reason now.

They seem to always get there, but on their own time.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

"What's in the shadow of the statue?" 

Miles didn't know the answer, but instead of ruling him out as one of them he was simply told that he wasn't "ready". Maybe it's not a pass-phrase at all.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

The Losties' time with Dharma is coming to an end. Sawyer's been caught by Phil, Roger's suspicious about Kate (and Jack). I think they will be "outed" very soon, and this is why Ben does not remember them in 2004 -- by the time he gets back to Dharma they will be gone. This also explains why Daniel was trying not to be seen in in the flash forward (?) clip at the start of the season. He certainly didn't appear to be in need of hiding when he got off the sub.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

wprager said:


> The Losties' time with Dharma is coming to an end. Sawyer's been caught by Phil, Roger's suspicious about Kate (and Jack). I think they will be "outed" very soon, and this is why Ben does not remember them in 2004 --


Except Sawyer, who's been there for three years...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> He wasn't shot. The fatal wound only _looked_ like a bullet wound.
> 
> A sudden surge of magnetic force at The Swan, where he was working on its construction, pulled a filling out of a tooth and right through his skull. What looked like a bullet wound was where the filling exited.
> 
> Miles learned this by "talking" to him in the van, and told Hurley.


Yes, it was clearly an exit wound and not an entrance wound.


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## Alfer (Aug 7, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> *How/why did the dead guy get shot*?
> 
> They did a DAMNED good job making Miles look really young.. the chin studs 100% distracted me from the actor's age.
> 
> I initially wondered if when he saw his mother in bed if she was already dead or not.


Miles said the dead guy told him he felt his tooth filling fall out and then a sharp pain...so was he equating that with a bullet, or was the magnetism where he was working so powerful it literally ripped his tooth filling out and shot it out his skull?


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## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

Wow! What a great episode! This show continually blows me away... I liked when Naomi brought miles to the restaurant. That was awesome!

As somebody else mentioned, Miles must have a thing for $3.2 million as it is the amount he asked Ben to give him in return for letting him go.


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## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

I can't remember for the life of me where {Dan} went after the red head dies, can someone refresh me why he is seperated from sawyer and all, and how did he get off the island to be arriving on the sub..


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danplaysbass said:


> As somebody else mentioned, Miles must have a thing for $3.2 million as it is the amount he asked Ben to give him in return for letting him go.


Or he was just being a snot, asking for the same amount he didn't get before (which was twice the amount he DID get)...

The real question isn't why Miles has $3.2 million in his head, it's why Widmore offered exactly $1.6 million in the first place.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

mulscully said:


> I can't remember for the life of me where miles went after the red head dies, can someone refresh me why he is seperated from sawyer and all, and how did he get off the island to be arriving on the sub..


I'm sure you meant Faraday, not Miles...and we don't know the answer to that...yet.

Interstingly, Miles is ANOTHER one with daddy issues!!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

danplaysbass said:


> Wow! What a great episode! This show continually blows me away... I liked when Naomi brought miles to the restaurant. That was awesome!


Ah Naomi, Little Dorrit!


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Alfer said:


> Miles said the dead guy told him he felt his tooth filling fall out and then a sharp pain...so was he equating that with a bullet, or was the magnetism where he was working so powerful it literally ripped his tooth filling out and shot it out his skull?


I'll have to re-watch to get the exact wording, but when Miles outlined to Hurley what the dead guy told him the salient points were:


Extremely powerful magnetic field (specifically mentioned) caused a filling (or was it, an entire filled tooth) to be pulled out.
Immediately followed by a sharp pain.

It would make sense that the above would have been the dead guy's perception of the event.

Knowing what we (the viewers) know about The Swan, and having seen that the guy who delivered the body to Miles was acting as "foreman" of the Swan's construction, it's pretty easy to put the entire scenario together.

An "event" at The Swan, during its construction, pulled the guy's filling right through his skull.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Another great episode leading us to the end.

I wonder if the "Shadow" people are kids that were born on the island, taken away and are trying to get back?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Had we seen that restaurant before, or the guy that was dead?


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

When we saw Mile's mom in the beginning, I thought it was an old Sun.


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## Scubee (Mar 2, 2005)

I'm confused. The tooth-through-the-skull guy was killed where? They took the body from someone in the jungle TO the construction site of the Orchid? Why take it there?

When I say the episode title, I though it was going to be a tip of the hat the the "goth" folks.

Here's the best shot I've found of the blackboard so far.


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

justen_m said:


> Everything is affected by a magnetic field to some extent.


Even plain water can be levitated by a powerful enough magnetic field, ref: 
Y. Ikezoe, N. Hirota, J. Nakagawa and K. Kitazawa, Making water levitate, Nature 393 (1998) 749-750.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

teknikel said:


> I wonder if the "Shadow" people are kids that were born on the island, taken away and are trying to get back?


That's what occurred to me as I was watching. Charlotte claims she was born on the island (have we seen that, or just her saying it?). We know Miles was born on the island. They are two of the three members of Naomi's team. There are no coincidences on LOST. That leads us to ...

Daniel. What do we know? His mom was Ellie/Eleanor. Didn't we see her on the island in "Jughead"? In a scene with young Widmore? Could he be born on the island? Who's his dad? And what were Widmore & Ellie doing on the island in that scene (from I think the 1940's or 50's)? Were they Others? Or something else?

Some of this is speculative questions, and some of it is "I just can't remember what I know because I'm so freakin' confused".


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Is "bounty hunter" really a spelling challenge? 

That's what you get for reading only comic books 


Tom Lasorda = Lost D(h)arma?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

First of all, everyone's right, must have had a brain lapse that I didn't catch during the first viewing that the magnetism at the swan station pulled the filling out of the guy through his head killing him. (Horrace's brief phone conversation with Pierre fits in with this nicely.. something like "well if it was caused by electromagnetism, we need to know that..")



Delta13 said:


> Proving once again that you should never face exotic matter with your head down.


Joke aside, just for clarification, the filling was ripped out at the Swan location, not the Orchid, so it's probably not the same thing (exotic matter), but rather something else.



Scubee said:


> I'm confused. The tooth-through-the-skull guy was killed where? They took the body from someone in the jungle TO the construction site of the Orchid? Why take it there?


He was killed at the excavation site for the Swan, then Miles took him back to Horace, then brought him out to Pierre at the Orchid station. The body seems to have been disposed of somehow while out there ("what body?").


----------



## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

astrohip said:


> That's what occurred to me as I was watching. Charlotte claims she was born on the island (have we seen that, or just her saying it?). We know Miles was born on the island. They are two of the three members of Naomi's team. There are no coincidences on LOST. That leads us to ...
> 
> Daniel. What do we know? His mom was Ellie/Eleanor. Didn't we see her on the island in "Jughead"? In a scene with young Widmore? Could he be born on the island? Who's his dad? And what were Widmore & Ellie doing on the island in that scene (from I think the 1940's or 50's)? Were they Others? Or something else?


This leads to another good question. How does Widmore/Naomi know about these people? Is it just a coincidence that they recruited certain people who had been on the island?

Naomi said they needed Miles so he could talk to people presumably killed by Ben. Daniel was obviously there for his understanding of "fringe" science. Charlotte was, what, an archeologist or something? Did we ever learn her purpose?

I found it interesting that the guy Naomi had Miles talk to was somebody who had discovered Widmore's secret. He knew about the grave robbing and the plane purchase. I think we can safely assume it was one of Ben's men.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

astrohip said:


> That's what occurred to me as I was watching. Charlotte claims she was born on the island (have we seen that, or just her saying it?). We know Miles was born on the island. They are two of the three members of Naomi's team. There are no coincidences on LOST. That leads us to ...
> 
> Daniel. What do we know? His mom was Ellie/Eleanor. Didn't we see her on the island in "Jughead"? In a scene with young Widmore? Could he be born on the island? Who's his dad? And what were Widmore & Ellie doing on the island in that scene (from I think the 1940's or 50's)? Were they Others? Or something else?
> 
> Some of this is speculative questions, and some of it is "I just can't remember what I know because I'm so freakin' confused".


At some point we may be able to add Jack to this list as Christian seems to have some history here.


----------



## mostman (Jul 16, 2000)

Two notes.

First, now we know how Farraday got into that really old photo that Desmond found. Sweet.

Second, I took Naomi's statement of "where lots of dead people reside" a different way. I took it that she meant that dead people are actually living there. Probably not the intent of the writers based on the fact that Miles did not respond in an odd way, but interesting.


----------



## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Daniel. What do we know? His mom was Ellie/Eleanor. Didn't we see her on the island in "Jughead"? In a scene with young Widmore? Could he be born on the island? Who's his dad? And what were Widmore & Ellie doing on the island in that scene (from I think the 1940's or 50's)? Were they Others? Or something else?


Yes, Widmore and Ellie were Others (as Richard was their 'leader' and they spoke Latin) in Jughead, which was set in 1955 (IIRC).

The question of Danie's birth and (complete) parentage is a good one. Hopefully we'll get that answer soon.



danplaysbass said:


> This leads to another good question. How does Widmore/Naomi know about these people? Is it just a coincidence that they recruited certain people who had been on the island?
> 
> Naomi said they needed Miles so he could talk to people presumably killed by Ben. Daniel was obviously there for his understanding of "fringe" science. Charlotte was, what, an archeologist or something? Did we ever learn her purpose?


Lost being Lost, I would be really disappointed if it was simply coincidence. I'd like to think that after the purge, the Others got a hold of the Dharma rosters and at least had some idea who was once on the island.

Not sure if they expected someone like Miles to have 'powers' but Widmore probably had Miles on his radar because he was connected to the island. Same way that Widmore was funding Faraday's research.

As for Charlotte, I suspect she - also with discreet funding from Widmore - was the one who found the exitway (in Tunisia) that allows Widmore to setup the outpost and cameras to wait for Locke's eventual arrival. None of this has been stated explicitly, I'm speculating.

Has their been a character on Lost - at least that we've gotten childhood/adolescent flashbacks for - that doesn't have daddy issues?


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I agree. I have no idea why anyone would call this episode "filler". Lots of fun and interesting stuff happened, and then the ending when Faraday returned.
> 
> I wonder what will happen to Sawyer's knocked out co-worker.


He'll get locked into the hatch and told to enter the numbers on a computer.



wprager said:


> "What's in the shadow of the statue?"
> 
> Miles didn't know the answer, but instead of ruling him out as one of them he was simply told that he wasn't "ready". Maybe it's not a pass-phrase at all.


Well, in this case they were off-island. They probably know about future events and are waiting for the opportune time.

Greg


----------



## BluesFools (Apr 5, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The real question isn't why Miles has $3.2 million in his head, it's why Widmore offered exactly $1.6 million in the first place.


He's British. He offered a million pounds which converts to around $1.6m.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Indeed.
> 
> This is exactly the reason why I recommend patience with this show. People were complaining about not knowing why Miles is even ON the show; I'd say we probably have half the reason now.
> 
> They seem to always get there, but on their own time.


That's because the modern audience basically has no patience and wants it "Now. NOW. NOW!!!!"

How many times have we seen people complaining about how we get no answers.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Except Sawyer, who's been there for three years...


And Juliet.
And Miles.

But especially Juliet.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

hurley: you're just jealous cuz my powers are better than yours"


----------



## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

JYoung said:


> That's because the modern audience basically has no patience and wants it "Now. NOW. NOW!!!!"
> 
> How many times have we seen people complaining about how we get no answers.
> 
> ...


Richard said Ben wouldn't remember after his "temple treatment" - whether he just meant the shooting or other things (like Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Sayed and any of the others that he saw) wasn't clear. If the latter and our guys "leave" before he gets back, it would explain his not remembering the "future people"


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> And Juliet.
> And Miles.
> 
> But especially Juliet.


But especially Sawyer, since there's been no hint that he recognized him in "the present."

Juliet, it seems obvious that he recognizes her (and probably that his youthful experience with her is the root of his obsession).

Miles probably isn't a big deal; they haven't really interacted all that much.

But Sawyer is a huge question mark. We have to assume Ben recognized him when they "first" met a couple of seasons ago. That makes Ben's lack of any sign of recognition odd behavior.

(Get it? I pointed to Ben's behavior and suggested it might be odd? )


Honora said:


> Richard said Ben wouldn't remember after his "temple treatment" - whether he just meant the shooting or other things (like Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Sayed and any of the others that he saw) wasn't clear. If the latter and our guys "leave" before he gets back, it would explain his not remembering the "future people"


But I doubt that three entire years of his memory would be wiped out.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I wonder what will happen to Sawyer's knocked out co-worker.


He got tied up by Juliet. Sounds great to me.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

So, for those of us who are not in the loop, am I correct in assuming that "Hoth" is a Star Wars term for "bounty hunter"? 

I saw the first three movies when they originally came out, and one or two of the next three, but was so put off by the "acting" of the adolescent/young adult Darth Vader actor that i gave up on the rest of the series.


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But especially Sawyer, since there's been no hint that he recognized him in "the present."
> 
> Juliet, it seems obvious that he recognizes her (and probably that his youthful experience with her is the root of his obsession).
> 
> ...


It would be interesting to watch the scenes with Ben and Sawyer again, where Ben pretends to put a devide in Sawyer's heart to kill him if his heart rate goes above a certain level, just to see if current knowledge changes our percetpion of those scenes.

Overall, who do the Others ask Michael to bring back in Season (2?) - Sawyer, Kate, Jack, Hurley - all of whom were in 1977. Oddly he excludes Jin, and of course Sayid (although he apparently may not remember Sayid according to Richard).


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Except Sawyer, who's been there for three years...


Yep, thought of that, too. Sawyer was the Head of Security, so he wouldn't have been too chummy with a snot-nosed 10-year-old kid. Neverhteless, yes, he probably would have recognized him. Wasn't Ben the first one to call Sawyer "James"?


----------



## vman (Feb 9, 2001)

getreal said:


> So, for those of us who are not in the loop, am I correct in assuming that "Hoth" is a Star Wars term for "bounty hunter"?
> 
> I saw the first three movies when they originally came out, and one or two of the next three, but was so put off by the "acting" of the adolescent/young adult Darth Vader actor that i gave up on the rest of the series.


Hoth is the name of the ice planet the rebels are based on at the start of Empire Strikes Back.


----------



## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

getreal said:


> So, for those of us who are not in the loop, am I correct in assuming that "Hoth" is a Star Wars term for "bounty hunter"?
> 
> I saw the first three movies when they originally came out, and one or two of the next three, but was so put off by the "acting" of the adolescent/young adult Darth Vader actor that i gave up on the rest of the series.


Hoth is the ice planet where The Empire Strikes Back opens.
The title of this episode is a play on the movie title "Some Like it Hot" I assume.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

JYoung said:


> That's because the modern audience basically has no patience and wants it "Now. NOW. NOW!!!!"
> 
> How many times have we seen people complaining about how we get no answers.
> 
> ...


Ben recruited Juliet and had her brought to the Island. It's quite possible that he did it *exactly* because he remembered her.

Miles did not appear on the scene until well after the Oceanic crash. He was locked in the basement when Miles went to see him. Tough to judge his reaction due to circumstances. He could have recognized him, or not.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> Hoth is the ice planet where The Empire Strikes Back opens.
> The title of this episode is a play on the movie title "Some Like it Hot" I assume.


AND, the bounty hunter being referred to is the infamous Boba Fett, whom most people would recognize his 'face'.

Boba Fett captured Han Solo with the help of Darth Vader and Lando Calrissian. Han Solo had a bounty on his head for money owed to Jabba the Hutt...

you are SO missing out...


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

wprager said:


> Yep, thought of that, too. Sawyer was the Head of Security, so he wouldn't have been too chummy with a snot-nosed 10-year-old kid. Neverhteless, yes, he probably would have recognized him. Wasn't Ben the first one to call Sawyer "James"?


I thought it was Locke.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

vman said:


> Hoth is the name of the ice planet the rebels are based on at the start of Empire Strikes Back.





Gunnyman said:


> Hoth is the ice planet where The Empire Strikes Back opens.


Thanks for the clarification, gents.



Gunnyman said:


> The title of this episode is a play on the movie title "Some Like it Hot" I assume.


Uhhh ... that one was obvious -- even to _me_.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

astrohip said:


> We know Miles was born on the island.


We do?

We know that he was on the island when he was 3 months old. Do we know where he was born? The medical facilities on the island don't seem that great---if I were the head guy, I'd want my wife to give birth in a real hospital.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

bruinfan said:


> AND, the bounty hunter being referred to is the infamous Boba Fett, whom most people would recognize his 'face'.
> 
> Boba Fett captured Han Solo with the help of Darth Vader and Lando Calrissian. Han Solo had a bounty on his head for money owed to Jabba the Hutt...
> 
> you are SO missing out...


I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" at a drive-in theatre back in 1980 when it first came out. I may have missed certain details while enjoying some "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights", if you get my meaning. 

I didn't think I was "missing out".  :up:

... But thanks for the recap.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> hurley: you're just jealous cuz my powers are better than yours"


It'd be cool to get Hurley together with Hiro. 



getreal said:


> So, for those of us who are not in the loop, am I correct in assuming that "Hoth" is a Star Wars term for "bounty hunter"?
> 
> I saw the first three movies when they originally came out, and one or two of the next three, but was so put off by the "acting" of the adolescent/young adult Darth Vader actor that i gave up on the rest of the series.





vman said:


> Hoth is the name of the ice planet the rebels are based on at the start of Empire Strikes Back.





Gunnyman said:


> Hoth is the ice planet where The Empire Strikes Back opens.
> The title of this episode is a play on the movie title "Some Like it Hot" I assume.


WHA? If you gave up at the prequel trilogy, you still saw Hoth. I'm revoking your geek card, that is assuming you ever had one.

Greg


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

vman said:


> It would be interesting to watch the scenes with Ben and Sawyer again, where Ben pretends to put a devide in Sawyer's heart to kill him if his heart rate goes above a certain level, just to see if current knowledge changes our percetpion of those scenes.


Of course, the cool thing about Ben being so odd is that if his reactions don't seem quite right, well, Ben's just odd! His reactions _never _seem quite right. 


gchance said:


> It'd be cool to get Hurley together with Hiro.


Well, that doesn't look likely. They live decades apart.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I didn't realize it at the time, but a podcast pointed out to me that the guy in the van (Bram) was the same guy on the new crash on the island. He asked both Miles and Lapidus what lies in the foot in the statue.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> I didn't realize it at the time, but a podcast pointed out to me that the guy in the van (Bram) was the same guy on the new crash on the island. He asked both Miles and Lapidus what lies in the foot in the statue.


Correct, which is why people are using his appearance in last nights episode as further proof that Bram, (and whoever is with him on the island) is possibly Dharma Initiative.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I'm sure you are all wondering with great anxiety about what form of celebration I did yesterday when it was revealed that Miles was not interacting with ghosts and directly discounted their existence as I hoped he would. I am sad to report that all I did was a brief dance in my head.

Now we just need a Michael/gun episode.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

getreal said:


> I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" at a drive-in theatre back in 1980 when it first came out. I may have missed certain details while enjoying some "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights", if you get my meaning.


<Sheldon from Big Bang Theory>
You were listening to Meatloaf at the drive in theater??
</Sheldon from Big Bang Theory>


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mostman said:


> Two notes.
> 
> First, now we know how Farraday got into that really old photo that Desmond found. Sweet.


Not remembering exactly.. What picture? I assume you mean during his 2nd trip to Oxford?



BluesFools said:


> He's British. He offered a million pounds which converts to around $1.6m.


Awesome.. Very good explanation. Excellent.. Can't believe we didn't think of this before now.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> But especially Sawyer, since there's been no hint that he recognized him in "the present."


Umm, how about Ben singling him out on the other island, making him build a runway, trying to get him with the OTHER girl he's ever been interested in (instead of *Ben's* girl, Juliette! If Ben fixated on Juliette as a kid, he must have been crazy jealous of James!), and telling James that he (Ben) is way better at conning people than James was!



Rob Helmerichs said:


> But Sawyer is a huge question mark. We have to assume Ben recognized him when they "first" met a couple of seasons ago. That makes Ben's lack of any sign of recognition odd behavior.
> 
> (Get it? I pointed to Ben's behavior and suggested it might be odd? )


Again, I think his actions showed that he did recognize him, and he punished him appropriately (stuck him a bear's cage! made him think he had an explosive in his heart!)). But I'm tired today, so your 'odd' joke flew over my head. Don't get it?


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> The title of this episode is a play on the movie title "Some Like it Hot" I assume.


Wasn't it "Some Like it Goth?"


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

getreal said:


> I saw "The Empire Strikes Back" at a drive-in theatre back in 1980 when it first came out. I may have missed certain details while enjoying some "Paradise by the Dashboard Lights", if you get my meaning.
> 
> I didn't think I was "missing out".  :up:
> 
> ... But thanks for the recap.


Ok, so you get credit for that, but damn man, it's been _over thirty years_! You hadn't heard anyone talk about it since? I can't count how many times I've seen those movies..


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

Well, to be fair, it was the name of a fictional planet that was referenced maybe 2 or 3 times in the movie at most. It could have slipped by and easily forgotten in the past 25 or so years. Or perhaps mixed up with Degoba.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I also wonder if another indirect reference to Empire is the idea of trying to defend transports that are escaping from Hoth..

Many stayed on the ground fighting so they could get as many transports away as possible.. "The first transport is away! (cheers)"

Maybe the groups of people leaving the island (Charlotte, her mom, Miles, his mom, etc) all left to protect them from the upcoming war..


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> Or perhaps mixed up with Degoba.


I think you mean "Dagobah"...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> So, for those of us who are not in the loop, am I correct in assuming that "Hoth" is a Star Wars term for "bounty hunter"?
> 
> I saw the first three movies when they originally came out, and one or two of the next three, but was so put off by the "acting" of the adolescent/young adult Darth Vader actor that i gave up on the rest of the series.


You mean you didn't have this when you were a kid?










You missed out!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Awesome.. Very good explanation. Excellent.. Can't believe we didn't think of this before now.


I'm not sure I buy it, although I considered it. But she didn't say a million pounds, she said 1.6 million dollars. I hope there's more to it than that, which would just be clumsy dialogue...


jkeegan said:


> Umm, how about Ben singling him out on the other island, making him build a runway, trying to get him with the OTHER girl he's ever been interested in (instead of *Ben's* girl, Juliette! If Ben fixated on Juliette as a kid, he must have been crazy jealous of James!), and telling James that he (Ben) is way better at conning people than James was!
> 
> Again, I think his actions showed that he did recognize him, and he punished him appropriately (stuck him a bear's cage! made him think he had an explosive in his heart!)). But I'm tired today, so your 'odd' joke flew over my head. Don't get it?


It's quite possible that the reason they (the writers) had Ben bring Jack, Kate, and Sawyer to the other island was so that Jack could operate on Ben and Sawyer, er, could operate on Kate. If so, then that's an attention to future plot developments that goes beyond what even I imagined!  Which could very well be the case. I hope so, anyway.

Otherwise, it would just be a truly brilliant and inspired ret-con. Either way, my hat's off to them.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Of course, the cool thing about Ben being so odd is that if his reactions don't seem quite right, well, Ben's just odd! His reactions _never _seem quite right.
> 
> Well, that doesn't look likely. They live decades apart.


But Hiro is a time traveller (at least he used to be, that was one of his original powers).


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> But Hiro is a time traveller (at least he used to be, that was one of his original powers).


Yes, and so is Hurley.

Hence the .


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not sure I buy it, although I considered it. But she didn't say a million pounds, she said 1.6 million dollars. I hope there's more to it than that, which would just be clumsy dialogue...


widmore: tell him i'll pay him 1 million pounds.

naomi: he'll pay you 1 million pounds.
miles (puzzled): how much is that in dollars?
naomi: $1.6 million
miles (smirking): when does the boat leave?

that's clumsier... i don't think it's unreasonable that she does the conversion for him.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> I didn't realize it at the time, but a podcast pointed out to me that the guy in the van (Bram) was the same guy on the new crash on the island. He asked both Miles and Lapidus what lies in the foot in the statue.


Yes.

Loved Hurley & Miles taking their 'act' on the road this episode. The only weak writing seemed to me to be the total lack of rational motivation Bram & the Van Guys used to dissuade Miles. They attack him on the street, draging him into the van and losing his fish taco. Then they offer him nothing tangible to forego the $1.6M. Worse yet they're completely cryptic about it, telling him nothing of consequence. Obviously, the Van crew does not have a future in sales.


----------



## Fleegle (Jan 15, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not sure I buy it, although I considered it. But she didn't say a million pounds, she said 1.6 million dollars. I hope there's more to it than that, which would just be clumsy dialogue...


Whidmore told Naomi, "Offer him a million pounds". Naomi calculated that into American $ to offer to Miles.

Edit: Dammmit, Smeeked cause I didn't refresh before responding!


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> <Sheldon from Big Bang Theory>
> You were listening to Meatloaf at the drive in theater??
> </Sheldon from Big Bang Theory>


DUH!

Yeah, 'cause back then Meatloaf was real popular. An folks had Sony walkpersons.

-phil (hates having to explain the obvious)


----------



## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

The best part of this episode to me was the fact that Hurley still doesn't get the way the Lost brand of time travel works. If so, he would have realized it's futile to try to change the movie.

Though it would be funny if they did a scene at the very end where his script ended up in Lucas' hands and he said something like "this is great, but it needs some big changes"


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

GDG76 said:


> The best part of this episode to me was the fact that Hurley still doesn't get the way the Lost brand of time travel works. If so, he would have realized it's futile to try to change the movie.
> 
> *Though it would be funny if they did a scene at the very end where his script ended up in Lucas' hands and he said something like "this is great, but it needs some big changes*"


I wish you'd get a job writing for the show. Love it!


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> Well, to be fair, it was the name of a fictional planet that was referenced maybe 2 or 3 times in the movie at most. It could have slipped by and easily forgotten in the past 25 or so years. Or perhaps mixed up with Degoba.


Is that where us Italians come from?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> Wasn't it "Some Like it Goth?"


Some Like it Gaunt.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> Hoth is the ice planet where The Empire Strikes Back opens.
> The title of this episode is a play on the movie title "Some Like it Hot" I assume.


Which was a movie about two men dressing up in drag.

So which male characters last night were parading around in chick clothes?


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

I wish Miles told Hurley "Drop it like it's Hoth"...


----------



## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I admire the writers working in the year into the conversation so it's obvious, but not like they're bludgeoning us over the head with it.


----------



## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I know many of you avoid the coming next week and view them as spoilers. However, I don't think it's violative of that rule to point out that next week is a clip show, so plan accordingly.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> Gunnyman said:
> 
> 
> > Hoth is the ice planet where The Empire Strikes Back opens.
> ...


Maybe that's the "improvement" that Hurley wanted to make to _Empire_---Boba Fett in drag!


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

How long has it been since Kate/Jack/Hurley joined the Dharma as the "new recruits"? I ask because it coincides with the sub coming in with the actually new recruits. So doesn't it seem to be too soon to have ANOTHER sub coming in with Faraday? Are they two subs?


----------



## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> You mean you didn't have this when you were a kid?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I still have this today!


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I want a Tauntaun sleeping bag.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Backing up my pal Turtleboy, this show was actually ALL filler, and that's what was so great about it. I think it's genius that instead of flashing back to give us bits and pieces of the history of the island, they actually have the main characters actually living that history and being a part of it step by step.

-smak-


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dtle said:


> How long has it been since Kate/Jack/Hurley joined the Dharma as the "new recruits"? I ask because it coincides with the sub coming in with the actually new recruits. So doesn't it seem to be too soon to have ANOTHER sub coming in with Faraday? Are they two subs?


That's a good point. As far as we know, Jack/Kate/Hurley have only been there for a couple of days. Sayid was captured on the same day J/K/H showed up, he was in the cell for a couple of days, then Ben let him out, and the events of this episode took place on the same day that Kate and Sawyer took Ben to the Others. So either there are multiple subs or the sub only has to travel a short distance outside the reach of the island to another ship or island in order to pick people up. Perhaps since these people were coming in from Ann Arbor and weren't new recruits, they could be flown to somewhere close and then brought the last 100 miles by sub rather than having to come by sub all the way from the mainland.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Hey that's another thing.. We saw Daniel's notebook in a filing cabinet in an office, and later found out it was Ben's old office! What's up with that?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

smak said:


> Backing up my pal Turtleboy, this show was actually ALL filler...


I think we have a different definition of "filler."


----------



## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Maybe that's the "improvement" that Hurley wanted to make to _Empire_---Boba Fett in drag!


He said something about "Ewoks suck".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

hefe said:


> I think we have a different definition of "filler."


I do not think that words means what he thinks it means...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

ct1 said:


> He said something about "Ewoks suck".


The Ewoks were not in Empire Strikes Back. I got the sense that Hurley's rewrite would have had Luke sitting down and having a nice discussion with Darth Vader and reconciling their differences, which would have prevented Luke's hand from getting cut off, and would have prevented most, if not all, of the events of Return of the Jedi, including the Ewoks.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> Had we seen that restaurant before, or the guy that was dead?


Maybe it was obvious, but the dead guy in the restaurant looked like the guy back in 1977 that was reading out the serial number(s) to put on the hatch.



Honora said:


> Richard said Ben wouldn't remember after his "temple treatment" - whether he just meant the shooting or other things (like Sawyer, Juliet, Miles, Sayed and any of the others that he saw) wasn't clear. If the latter and our guys "leave" before he gets back, it would explain his not remembering the "future people"


Well, as noted before, a strong enough magnetic force can move/levitate water. We also know that magnets can be used to erase tapes and other magnetic media. Take that far enough and you could say a strong enough magnetic field could probably erase memories as the brain has lots of liquid in it of some form and is a big electro chemical thing.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> DUH!
> 
> Yeah, 'cause back then Meatloaf was real popular. An folks had Sony walkpersons.
> 
> -phil (hates having to explain the obvious)


I think you completely missed the point of Fish Man's joke.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Yes.
> 
> Loved Hurley & Miles taking their 'act' on the road this episode. The only weak writing seemed to me to be the total lack of rational motivation Bram & the Van Guys used to dissuade Miles. They attack him on the street, draging him into the van and losing his fish taco. Then they offer him nothing tangible to forego the $1.6M. Worse yet they're completely cryptic about it, telling him nothing of consequence. Obviously, the Van crew does not have a future in sales.


They were not that interested in selling him on the idea. They wanted to see if he was "one of them".


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

I'm still kind of disappointed with the season as a whole, when compared to the bad-assery of past seasons. It's cool that we're "experiencing" the history of the island instead of just hearing about it, but at the same time, to me, and infinite amount of the drama/suspense has been sucked out due to this plot device. 

For one thing, I would say at least 80% of what we've seen in Dharmaville we knew already. Ok, it was cool to see Hurley witness the creation of the hatch, but overall, so what--we already knew the hatch existed. Nothing really new there. We also know how all of these people will meet their eventual demise. The only things we learned was that Sayid shot little Ben which probably fueled his insanity, and that Ethan was originally Dhama. I do think the whole "Ben won't remember" bit was a cop out though (although at least it is consistent with season 2). 

I also feel that this season has been rife with inconsistencies. In S1, Rousseau told Sayid she never saw any others. Then in S2, she captures Ben in her net, but does not recognize him. Then they reveal that not only did Ben personally atke Alex from her, but the two had a full on conversation. I'm sorry but I can't buy that she was "so crazy" that she didn't remember the guy that took her kid--the last guy she actual spoke to for 16 years. Defend it all you want but this is an inconsitncey. And I'm sorry but if his comment about "the whispers" are the explanation we're gonna get on that, that sucks. "everytime you hear whispers run the other way!!"... horrible line. 

Same thing with the Jeremey Bentham episode. If you go back and watch the season 4 finale, everyone recounts their conversations with Jeremey B. But when you actually see those conversations, they're almost all different. Jack says that Locke told him bad things happened and that it was all his fault. He also says that Locke told him going back to the island was the only way to protect Kate and Aaron. None of this took place. 

I just feel like this time-travel storyline has opened up too many problems because there are so many instances where it seems the writers didn't even consult the prior episodes in order to match the story. If you go back and watch "Solitary" then "This Place is Death", nearly every details of Danielle's first days on the island are changed. I feel like over all, about 65-70% of what we've seen has already been known, or could have been surmised. The only thing worth looking forward to is the reveal of what "the incident" is. Keep in mind I'm refering to Dharma stuff, NOT Ben's flashbacks, and not the present-day Ajira Air storyline. 

Also keep in mind, I'm not judging the season overall, since it has been completed yet. I admit that you have to wait until a story concludes before you can pass judgement on it. I'm just saying that week-to-week, I haven't been nearly as into as in previous seasons, where everything was moving forward. I hope that once the season has aired entirely, I'll have a different view. 

Wow, that turned into a beast!


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> First of all, everyone's right, must have had a brain lapse that I didn't catch during the first viewing that the magnetism at the swan station pulled the filling out of the guy through his head killing him. (Horrace's brief phone conversation with Pierre fits in with this nicely.. something like "well if it was caused by electromagnetism, we need to know that..")
> 
> Joke aside, just for clarification, the filling was ripped out at the Swan location, not the Orchid, so it's probably not the same thing (exotic matter), but rather something else.
> 
> He was killed at the excavation site for the Swan, then Miles took him back to Horace, then brought him out to Pierre at the Orchid station. The body seems to have been disposed of somehow while out there ("what body?").


You may be right Jeff - but anything that can cause that kind of electromagnetism must be pretty darn exotic. Maybe they sent the body to Tunisia or something. Dead bodies have fairly limited uses.



Amnesia said:


> We do?
> 
> We know that he was on the island when he was 3 months old. Do we know where he was born? The medical facilities on the island don't seem that great---if I were the head guy, I'd want my wife to give birth in a real hospital.


When Amy had Ethan in 1974 didn't the doctor's aide say they normally send the mothers to the mainland at the end of their pregnancy? So your point is well taken sir. We don't know.



dtle said:


> How long has it been since Kate/Jack/Hurley joined the Dharma as the "new recruits"? I ask because it coincides with the sub coming in with the actually new recruits. So doesn't it seem to be too soon to have ANOTHER sub coming in with Faraday? Are they two subs?


Good catch - not only that, but it arrived at night and seemed to be unexpected.

My take on the 1.6 million dollars was that is was just another variation on the numbers. Or a large multiplier, take your pick.


----------



## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

Delta13 said:


> My take on the 1.6 million dollars was that is was just another variation on the numbers. Or a large multiplier, take your pick.


I read somewhere that that is roughly 1 million pounds, which would make sense since Widmore is British. Perhaps, Naomi simply rounded it. However, I think you are right and most likely that amount was probably chosen since it is a variation of the numbers.


----------



## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

brermike said:


> I read somewhere that that is roughly 1 million pounds, which would make sense since Widmore is British. Perhaps, Naomi simply rounded it. However, I think you are right and most likely that amount was probably chosen since it is a variation of the numbers.


I love the irony that the "explanation" of Miles' random demand is that it's excatly twice the amount that Widmore offered him...but then the amount widmore offered him is random too! lol. The explanation needs an explanation.

That said, you're explanation of the pounds-to-dollars exchange does make sense if that's the case. I was just laughing because she's like "my boss is offering you 1.6 million dollars"... Who offers THAT amount of money?


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Well, it is also the traditional way of offering a million dollars - after taxes. Assuming Widmore submits 1099s and all that.


----------



## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> It certainly makes the side game with the Valenzetti(sp) equations feel a little less canon though, doesn't it? If that were indeed what the numbers were, would they also happen to make those numbers the 'serial number for the door'? (Unless it's just as random as all of the other occurances)


Just because the workers were putting a serial number on there, doesn't mean that the numbers don't mean more. They're workers. A lot of this is 'classified'. The workers don't need to know more.



mostman said:


> First, now we know how Farraday got into that really old photo that Desmond found. Sweet.


What/when was this old photo? I don't remember that, so if anyone can remind me, I appreciate it.



dtle said:


> How long has it been since Kate/Jack/Hurley joined the Dharma as the "new recruits"? I ask because it coincides with the sub coming in with the actually new recruits. So doesn't it seem to be too soon to have ANOTHER sub coming in with Faraday? Are they two subs?


I think it's been a few days, but I would guess that the sub comes and goes depending upon the needs of Dharma. It's just that there aren't going to be more new recruits (and another opportunity for Jack/Kate/Hurley to blend in as newbies) for another six months. I never took that to mean that the sub wouldn't be coming back again for six months.



mrdazzo7 said:


> If you go back and watch "Solitary" then "This Place is Death", nearly every details of Danielle's first days on the island are changed.


Rousseau spent a long time alone (we presume). What motivation does she have to tell Sayid the truth?


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

His name is Miles. 1 mile = 1.6 kilometer. Miles' million = 1.6 million dollars.

Obviously.


----------



## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

Fun episode. Just now caught up on it + the thread.

Two thoughts:
First, it was nice to hear the details of the fake Oceanic 815 that was found in the trench several seasons ago. The dead guy in the diner was talking about an "old airplane" and photos of dug-up graves. Clearly all this was used to fake the crash.

Second, I'm beginning to think that Miles is going to cause "The Incident". He's on the island with a younger version of himself, and we saw Dr. Chang freak out in the Orchid video about two time-crossed rabbits touching. Maybe it's just a matter of time before Miles interacts with baby-Miles and - *boom* Incident.

Time will tell, I'm sure.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

hapdrastic said:


> *Time *will tell, I'm sure.


I'm sure it will!


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

hapdrastic said:


> Fun episode. Just now caught up on it + the thread.
> 
> ...I'm beginning to think that Miles is going to cause "The Incident". He's on the island with a younger version of himself, and we saw Dr. Chang freak out in the Orchid video about two time-crossed rabbits touching. Maybe it's just a matter of time before Miles interacts with baby-Miles and - *boom* Incident.
> 
> Time will tell, I'm sure.


I could easily see it play out as follows:

1. Miles starts interacting more with Dr. Chang.
2. Miles (or Hurley) reveals to Dr. Chang that Miles is Dr. Chang's son.
3. Dr. Chang freaks out at the implications of having adult Miles and young Miles in close proximity, and fearing an incident he severs all ties with his wife and infant son, sending them far away and cutting them out of his life. This means that Dr. Chang is taking the Hurley view of time travel, thinking that by cutting off ties with his infant son he's somehow going to be able to prevent adult Miles from finding him on the island in the future, when in fact it is inevitable as evidenced by the fact that adult Miles is there.

Then... adult Miles and baby Miles interact, and we have The Incident.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

danterner said:


> I could easily see it play out as follows (...)


Miles (or at least Hurley) knows that all the Dharma people will be killed. Perhaps he sends his mom (and self) away to avoid that. He tries to get his father to leave, too, but the father refuses to leave his life's work.

...though we don't know what really happens to the father, do we?


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Miles (or at least Hurley) knows that all the Dharma people will be killed. Perhaps he sends his mom (and self) away to avoid that. He tries to get his father to leave, too, but the father refuses to leave his life's work.
> 
> ...though we don't know what really happens to the father, do we?


That was my thought. Adult-Miles is responsible for having his father send baby-Miles away, in order to save him.


----------



## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Scubee said:


> I'm confused. The tooth-through-the-skull guy was killed where? They took the body from someone in the jungle TO the construction site of the Orchid? Why take it there?


I thought it was just because that's where Dr. Candle is at the moment.



DUDE_NJX said:


> Is "bounty hunter" really a spelling challenge?


It would have made more sense if he'd asked "Is 'bounty hunter' one word or two?"



getreal said:


> I saw the first three movies when they originally came out, and one or two of the next three, but was so put off by the "acting" of the adolescent/young adult Darth Vader actor that i gave up on the rest of the series.


I just died a little bit inside. Damn you, George Lucas!



GDG76 said:


> Though it would be funny if they did a scene at the very end where his script ended up in Lucas' hands and he said something like "this is great, but it needs some big changes"


That is brilliant.



MickeS said:


> His name is Miles. 1 mile = 1.6 kilometer. Miles' million = 1.6 million dollars.


Teehee.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> Miles (or at least Hurley) knows that all the Dharma people will be killed. Perhaps he sends his mom (and self) away to avoid that. He tries to get his father to leave, too, but the father refuses to leave his life's work.
> 
> ...though we don't know what really happens to the father, do we?


I love this idea.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> Some Like it Gaunt.


Since I'd been away from this thread for almost 24 hours, I knew someone would pick up that bait when I read Peter000's post.

And, even though it's obvious: Well played hefe and Peter000. Well played, both of you! :up:


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I think you completely missed the point of Fish Man's joke.


Either he missed it, or he was trying to out-Sheldon me... In which case both of us missed his!


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

hapdrastic said:


> First, it was nice to hear the details of the fake Oceanic 815 that was found in the trench several seasons ago. The dead guy in the diner was talking about an "old airplane" and photos of dug-up graves. Clearly all this was used to fake the crash.


We already knew these details, although they were presented by two different sides and I don't think we know for 100% sure which is true. Widmore's boat captain said that Ben Linus had faked the crash. Mr. Friendly (Tom) said that Widmore had faked the crash, and had a photo of mass graves that were dug up for bodies.

It looks to me like the evidence that Tom gave Michael came from the dead guy we saw in the restaurant. I don't know if that's also the same guy from the videotape that Ben showed Locke.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

hapdrastic said:


> Second, I'm beginning to think that Miles is going to cause "The Incident". He's on the island with a younger version of himself, and we saw Dr. Chang freak out in the Orchid video about two time-crossed rabbits touching. Maybe it's just a matter of time before Miles interacts with baby-Miles and - *boom* Incident.
> 
> Time will tell, I'm sure.


huh... that's kinda cool.

funny how miles goes from a nonfactor character to potentially THE cause of everything that is the island as we first met it...

if it plays out that way, that is...


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

gchance said:


> WHA? If you gave up at the prequel trilogy, you still saw Hoth. I'm revoking your geek card, that is assuming you ever had one.
> 
> Greg


You're risking getting yours revoked with that assumption 

And just to extend on Bruinfan's post, Boba Fett was the clone/son of Jango Fett, who was the template for all the clone troopers used in the Clone Wars. Jango is decapitated (in front of Boba) by Mace Windu. Boba apparently meets his end when he is swallowed by the Sarlac (during Luke's rescue of a just thawed out Han Solo).


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> I think you mean "Dagobah"...


Now, to be fair, "Dagobah" is just how it was written in English, which is only a phonetic approximation. I mean, if we can go from Peking to Bejing, from Caughnawaga to Kahnawake and so on, Dagobah versus Degba isn't really a stretch.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not sure I buy it, although I considered it. But she didn't say a million pounds, she said 1.6 million dollars. I hope there's more to it than that, which would just be clumsy dialogue...
> 
> It's quite possible that the reason they (the writers) had Ben bring Jack, Kate, and Sawyer to the other island was so that Jack could operate on Ben and Sawyer, er, could operate on Kate. If so, then that's an attention to future plot developments that goes beyond what even I imagined! Which could very well be the case. I hope so, anyway.
> 
> Otherwise, it would just be a truly brilliant and inspired ret-con. Either way, my hat's off to them.


Is Naomi British or Australian? Because Aussies use dollars.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

wprager said:


> Now, to be fair, "Dagobah" is just how it was written in English, which is only a phonetic approximation.


What do you mean? I thought everyone spoke English! Sure, mangles it Yoda does, but it's still English...


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yes, and so is Hurley.
> 
> Hence the .


They are separated by a wall much more impenetrable than the veil of time -- they are on different networks.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

wprager said:


> Is Naomi British or Australian? Because Aussies use dollars.


Doesn't matter what Aussies use. Naomi was working for Widmore, who is British, and they use pounds.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

wprager said:


> They are separated by a wall much more impenetrable than the veil of time -- they are on different networks.




Then again, wasn't there a brief reference to Oceanic 815 in an early episode of "Chuck" (on NBC)? Something about it having been shot down with a surface-to-air missile, as I recall.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Haven't seen it yet, but I'm planning on renting S1 this summer. If the wife likes it (Adam Baldwin is a regular, and she liked "Jayne") then it could be our replacement for Terminator and Dollhouse.

And suddenly I'm sad.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

smak said:


> I think it's genius that instead of flashing back to give us bits and pieces of the history of the island, they actually have the main characters actually living that history and being a part of it step by step.


And because of that we now have flashbacks that actually go forward!

Ben's flashback to when he was a boy last week actually happened after the Losties' present time from the week before. It was a flashback that also advanced that story forward. And then of course the flashbacks of the Losties are actually events that haven't happened yet for most people.

What's cool, at least to me, is that initially I thought that the flashbacks were merely a means for us to get to know the characters better. I thought that they were simply a clever way of showing character development by changing our insight into the characters as opposed to the characters themselves.

And while that was one of their purposes, I think the more fundamental purpose was to get us used to the idea of a non-linear story, to prepare us for characters whose timelines did not always go in the same direction.

At this point, what is a flashback, flashforward, or present story is relative to the character whose story is being told. There is no more absolute past, present, and future. There is only what each character has experienced, will experience, and is experiencing.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BitbyBlit said:


> What's cool, at least to me, is that initially I thought that the flashbacks were merely a means for us to get to know the characters better. I thought that they were simply a clever way of showing character development by changing our insight into the characters as opposed to the characters themselves.
> 
> And while that was one of their purposes, I think the more fundamental purpose was to get us used to the idea of a non-linear story, to prepare us for characters whose timelines did not always go in the same direction.


Another more fundamental purpose was to show the non-linear connections among the characters, which seemed like just a goof at the time but has turned out to be very central to the overall plot.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> Miles (or at least Hurley) knows that all the Dharma people will be killed. Perhaps he sends his mom (and self) away to avoid that. He tries to get his father to leave, too, but the father refuses to leave his life's work.
> 
> ...though we don't know what really happens to the father, do we?


At some point somewhere I saw Miles's father making a video after some big disaster happened... I think maybe it was not on the actual show. Does anyone remember this? Could you remind me what it was (maybe in spoilers if necessary.)?

They were all concerned about getting rid of the body of the guy killled by his filling, but how are they going to explain that he's gone, and his body is gone too? Surely he has friends if not family on the island.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Either he missed it, or he was trying to out-Sheldon me... In which case both of us missed his!


Heh!


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

wprager said:


> Is Naomi British or Australian? Because Aussies use dollars.


She's Little Dorrit


----------



## Squeak (May 12, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Doesn't matter what Aussies use. Naomi was working for Widmore, who is British, and they use pounds.


And who are both smart enough to realize that Miles is American and will think (and react) in dollars.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> At some point somewhere I saw Miles's father making a video after some big disaster happened... I think maybe it was not on the actual show. Does anyone remember this? Could you remind me what it was (maybe in spoilers if necessary.)?


The Comic Con Video.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> What do you mean? I thought everyone spoke English! Sure, mangles it Yoda does, but it's still English...


They speak Basic.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Turtleboy said:


> I know many of you avoid the coming next week and view them as spoilers. However, I don't think it's violative of that rule to point out that next week is a clip show, so plan accordingly.


[Sawyer]Son of a *****![/Sawyer]


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

danplaysbass said:


> I found it interesting that the guy Naomi had Miles talk to was somebody who had discovered Widmore's secret. He knew about the grave robbing and the plane purchase. I think we can safely assume it was one of Ben's men.


Was it confirmed that it was Widmore who planted the plane and bodies? I remember it still seeming ambiguous after that scene. Could be the third party.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Magister said:


> When we saw Mile's mom in the beginning, I thought it was an old Sun.


There was an odd and awful moment while my brain tried to turn that woman into Old Sun. A sleep deprived mind is not an efficient one.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I'm sure you are all wondering with great anxiety about what form of celebration I did yesterday when it was revealed that Miles was not interacting with ghosts and directly discounted their existence as I hoped he would. I am sad to report that all I did was a brief dance in my head.


"You can go now."


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I blame the mystery 3rd party for the fake plane. Funny how both groups are being played it seems, and both blaming the other. I don't think anything was really _confirmed_ to pin the blame on Widmore.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I thought this was one the more badly written and directed episodes of the season thus far. I had no problem with the basic story elements--even though we already knew a lot of the information that was presented, they had a lot to work with--but it was all put together with little sense of the dramatic. Halfway through I actually rewound to see who the director was and was surprised to see that it was their main dude, Jack Bender. 

I found Hurley annoying this episode, but for some reason I kept thinking back to one of the all time great moments in the series--the Shambala joyride.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Turtleboy said:


> I didn't realize it at the time, but a podcast pointed out to me that the guy in the van (Bram) was the same guy on the new crash on the island. He asked both Miles and Lapidus what lies in the foot in the statue.


Thanks--I didn't realize that either. I looked for the regular podcast, but it's not up yet. Where did you find one?

I'm trying to remember what Sawyer told them when he first got there about the ship he was on. Weren't they suspicious that he had not only a woman doctor but a scientist who's an expert in just the stuff they're dealing with on board? Or is it possible that a few people in the "circle of trust" know what's going on? I guess not, because if Dr. Chang knew Miles was from the future, he would be way more unnerved by the name similarity with his baby.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> The Comic Con Video.


Yeah, thanks. This fits right in, but I don't know if it's cannon.


Spoiler



It sounds like Miles and his mother are still there and it's taking place right before the Purge.  Daniel is also there. Since the "incident" happens before the purge, Daniel must survive until then, and at some point has told Chang where he's from.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Magister said:


> When we saw Mile's mom in the beginning, I thought it was an old Sun.


I did too! And I kept thinking it was a horrible make-up job, they made her look way uglier than she would look.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

danterner said:


> Then again, wasn't there a brief reference to Oceanic 815 in an early episode of "Chuck" (on NBC)? Something about it having been shot down with a surface-to-air missile, as I recall.


Yes, that was part of the information in the Intersect.


----------



## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Was it confirmed that it was Widmore who planted the plane and bodies? I remember it still seeming ambiguous after that scene. Could be the third party.


I think the Captain of the freighter confirmed that it was Widmore. IIRC he had documents with evidence.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

tiams said:


> I think the Captain of the freighter confirmed that it was Widmore. IIRC he had documents with evidence.


Actually, the captain blamed Ben. He had a black box onboard, supposed raised from 815. You're thinking of Tom, who showed Michael some documents and blamed Widmore. But the documents didn't prove anything, just pictures of empty cemeteries and a purchase order for an old plane. Both the Ben and Widmore groups assume the other one did it.


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

I have a few Questions,
What's in the Big Crate from the recent crash? Another Bomb...?
What happened to the Atomic Bomb they burried?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like Miles and his mother are still there and it's taking place right before the Purge.  Daniel is also there. Since the "incident" happens before the purge, Daniel must survive until then, and at some point has told Chang where he's from.


Interesting.


Spoiler



That was clearly Faraday's voice from behind the camera.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

getreal said:


> Interesting.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Can you expand on that? since we saw Danial in the final scene coming out of the sub, I'm interested when the spoiler you're referring to happened.


Spoiler



was it in the bunny video? just interested


If it's in something that hasn't happened yet, or was shown at a con, I don't want to know about it.

Diane


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> I have a few Questions,
> What's in the Big Crate from the recent crash? Another Bomb...?
> What happened to the Atomic Bomb they burried?


Unknown at this point. I still think Trashcan Man is going to dig up that bomb.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> If it's in something that hasn't happened yet, or was shown at a con, I don't want to know about it.
> 
> Diane


You don't want to know--it was from Comic Con


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> You don't want to know--it was from Comic Con


And about that Comic Con video...



Spoiler



I'm not convinced it's Daniel. It doesn't really sound like him to me, and whoever it is seems pretty convinced that the video *isn't* going to work. I wonder who the 'credible source' is...seems like *that* would be Daniel, but not Daniel video taping.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

So, I don't remember hearing Naomi's last name before today (it's Dorrit).
She doesn't look particularly Jewish, but if she was,

Jew Naomi Dorrit = Widmore Janitor

Maybe we'll see a flashback of her cleaning Widmore's office while eating a bagel?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Aha! Didn't even notice it initially but young Miles is being read Me And My Polar Bear.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

So, more on the Empire theme..

All of the scientists coming out of the sub were wearing black (including Radzinski, who was on the dock). They feel like the officers in Empire. Pierre feels like Vader (there's still good in him). The regular Dharma crew in their jumpsuit uniforms feel like stormtroopers.

I thought about this after watching a guy help with the sub who looked like there were multiple lines of text on the back of his tee shirt, but in fact it looks like the bottom 1/8th of the Dharma logo (which also looks like a pyramid, btw). I thought about uniforms, noticed the scientists wearing the same black as Radzinski, and click.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> So, more on the Empire theme..
> 
> All of the scientists coming out of the sub were wearing black (including Radzinski, who was on the dock). They feel like the officers in Empire. Pierre feels like Vader (there's still good in him). The regular Dharma crew in their jumpsuit uniforms feel like stormtroopers.
> 
> I thought about this after watching a guy help with the sub who looked like there were multiple lines of text on the back of his tee shirt, but in fact it looks like the bottom 1/8th of the Dharma logo (which also looks like a pyramid, btw). I thought about uniforms, noticed the scientists wearing the same black as Radzinski, and click.


You're starting into this stuff only 5 days after the episode aired, and we don't even have a new episode this week to save us? Man, April 29 can't get here soon enough.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

More data: Daniel's Dharma logo is the Swan.

It's different than the workman outfit logo he had in the first episode of the season, where he clearly was trying not to be recognized by Pierre. That one had a spiral-like logo inside the Dharma symbol.

Young Miles from this week looks older than the young Miles from the first episode of the season (though it could just be the different child actors) - if true that would put Mile's journey down in the Orchid tunnel before now. But maybe I'm wrong on that?

Either way Pierre says his Miles is 3 months old, so that's not much time in between for much story telling to happen.

One more thought: Miles saying they don't travel in the same circles (and Pierre's comment that he didn't know there were circles) has a nice double meaning when you consider the record player analogy they keep showing. But then even better is that in the double meaning, Miles is wrong because they're both right there on the same circle of the record (like Hurley said.. "we just dropped him off!").


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> You're starting into this stuff only 5 days after the episode aired, and we don't even have a new episode this week to save us? Man, April 29 can't get here soon enough.


Doh, I forgot that I'd read that here - no new episode this week.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> You mean you didn't have this when you were a kid?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Bryanmc said:


> I still have this today!


Me too! It's in my son's room.

Raising the next generation the right way.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Unknown at this point. I still think Trashcan Man is going to dig up that bomb.


Maybe Trashy is the one who brought the bomb to the island ... anyone on the island have a bed wetting problem? Pyro issues?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Nobody's going around saying, "Bumpitty bump, bumpitty bump!"

Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok, after watching Heroes I had to post a new thread.
(Spoiler warnings for Heroes and Lost, all aired episodes)

*My "Heroes writers wish they wrote for Lost" thread (SPOILERS FOR BOTH SHOWS)*


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> More data: Daniel's Dharma logo is the Swan.
> 
> It's different than the workman outfit logo he had in the first episode of the season, where he clearly was trying not to be recognized by Pierre. That one had a spiral-like logo inside the Dharma symbol.


In the premiere he is wearing an outfit with the Orchid logo (the spiral-like design), so he can sneak around unnoticed in the Orchid construction site.

We keep seeing the Swan logo being worn by personnel prior the completion of the Swan station as well as the scientists coming from Ann Arbor. This logo must symbolize something else before the station was built. Perhaps, it is for one specific area of scientific study, like electromagnetism, both on the Island and back at HQ.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Mmmm. That's smooth!

More: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hotmeteor/sets/72157615214095434/detail/


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Can you expand on that? since we saw Daniel in the final scene coming out of the sub, I'm interested when the spoiler you're referring to happened.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


A friend screened the linked video, and deemed it "safe for viewing" and I was impressed, and I agree with the thoughts on the 


Spoiler



similarity of the off-camera voice to Daniel's, and it would be darn cool if it was him IMNSHO



Diane


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Check out the 100th episode celebratory cake (By Ace of Cakes). The life size Juliet looks especially delicious. 









More here: http://spoilertv.iimmgg.com/gallery/g549b058dd66db2e0c26bd01ac121a0b6/


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Hotlinking is not allowed.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Oops! Fixed.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Check out the 100th episode celebratory cake (By Ace of Cakes). The life size Juliet looks especially delicious.


That one's almost as good as the picture of muddy Juliet & Kate!

Almost. 

Greg


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

In anticipation of tonight's clip show, let me be the first to say:
LOST clip shows are getting out of hand.


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## GTuck (May 23, 2004)

I really forgot it was going to be a clip show this week. They trick me every season.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Maybe next week Kate will become a robot!

Has Hurley ever owned a bear?

How about a crazy wedding?


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Me too! It's in my son's room.


Mine is as well. It was an interesting transfer when I slowly started letting my son play with my old Star Wars toys. Things I'd kept locked up and protected for decades suddenly became important for a different reason when I saw his excitement and smile.

Being a parent is constantly giving up something you love for something you love more.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

The clip show actually had 2 interesting facts confirmed in it: It said that Eloise Hawking is Daniel's mother, and that Widmore faked the Oceanic 815 Plane Under The Sea.

Hey, I'm stuck in a hotel room with no Tivo so I watched the clip show. 

Alas poor Jeff, only 166 hours left to a new episode.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Delta13 said:


> The clip show actually had 2 interesting facts confirmed in it: It said that Eloise Hawking is Daniel's mother, and that Widmore faked the Oceanic 815 Plane Under The Sea.


Was either in doubt?


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

I just watched this and I didn't read the whole thread, so I may be smeeking. This episode had the biggest error I have seen in five seasons of "Lost": Hurley attempting to write ESB with some "improvements". That flick is perfect already. No improvements needed.


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## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Bryanmc said:


> Mine is as well. It was an interesting transfer when I slowly started letting my son play with my old Star Wars toys. Things I'd kept locked up and protected for decades suddenly became important for a different reason when I saw his excitement and smile.
> 
> Being a parent is constantly giving up something you love for something you love more.


Oh yeah. My boy is only 2.5 but I cant wait until I can give him my comic collection. Over 4000 bagged and boarded comics, mostly from the 80's.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm hoping the "new perspective" they have on the Oceanic Six will be seeing the events from the Smoke Monster's perspective.

Greg


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DougF said:


> I just watched this and I didn't read the whole thread, so I may be smeeking. This episode had the biggest error I have seen in five seasons of "Lost": Hurley attempting to write ESB with some "improvements". That flick is perfect already. No improvements needed.


Hurley's thesis was that Luke's daddy issues directly led to the second Death Star and, indirectly, to the Ewoks. He was trying to change the past (ESB) to alter the future (RotJ).

I agree with your assessment of ESB. It *was* perfect (Damn you, Lucas!) The only thing better than ESB was watching the matinee double header of SW/ESB in the front row of the balcony at the Imperial Theatre in Montreal.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Was either in doubt?


I thought that the fact that Hawking was Daniel's mother was telegraphed to us with absolutely no ambiguity; a certainty.

However, to my recollection, the only evidence we have that Widmore planted the fake plane was the say-so of Ben and some other others. As we know, their credibility isn't all that great. Didn't Widmore deny responsibility for it, claiming that Ben's people planted it?

I haven't watched the clip show yet, but my SP picked it up, of course. Probably get around to watching this weekend.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

It's also worth pointing out that Damon said in a podcast that the clip shows (and pop-up-video episodes) aren't necessarily canon - they should be treated like your Uncle Carl who watches the show a lot..


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## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

I liked the clip show, showing everything in sequence like that.

While watching it I thought that they probably do these for those of us that tend to over-think the obvious on these boards, lol.

But I know that there are people that will still refuse to believe that she is Daniels mother even after they came out and said so!


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

tgrim1 said:


> I liked the clip show, showing everything in sequence like that.
> 
> While watching it I thought that they probably do these for those of us that tend to over-think the obvious on these boards, lol.
> 
> But I know that there are people that will still refuse to believe that she is Daniels mother even after they came out and said so!


Were there really people at any point in time that refused to believe that she was Daniel's mother? I must have missed those posts. Were those the same people who when they saw Sun naked in bed with her tutor, and then worrying whether or not the baby was Jin's, didn't believe that she was having an affair?


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> Were there really people at any point in time that refused to believe that she was Daniel's mother? I must have missed those posts. Were those the same people who when they saw Sun naked in bed with her tutor, and then worrying whether or not the baby was Jin's, didn't believe that she was having an affair?


Or those folks who didn't think Locke was really dead even after they showed him in the coffin?

Oh wait...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> Was either in doubt?





Turtleboy said:


> Were there really people at any point in time that refused to believe that she was Daniel's mother? I must have missed those posts. Were those the same people who when they saw Sun naked in bed with her tutor, and then worrying whether or not the baby was Jin's, didn't believe that she was having an affair?


Wait, you think Sun slept with Jae?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

No I don't think anyone here questioned it being Daniel's mother (one of the popup videos spoiled that in fact, saying that Eloise's name was Eloise, which is the same name he used for his rat).

The only thing that last night's show said straight out that wasn't 100% sure is that Widmore staged the crash.

..which, again, I still don't know that we know, since those clip shows aren't canon. I wouldn't be surprised if, as has been suggested, we find out that Widmore and Ben both thought the other planted it, and it turns out it was Dharma. Do they need to do that in the story? No.. I think it's fine having it be Widmore (from what we know now).. So do *I* care? Not really. But technically I don't think we know for sure.. Widmore had a black box he said was from the plane, and Ben had photos of graves (which we now find out were being delivered to Widmore before the delivery guy was killed).

Hey.. yeah.. Why would Widmore want photos of the graves he just robbed from to make a fake plane crash? Wouldn't it make more sense if Widmore was being delivered photos of graves that Ben had had bodies stolen from?

Eh, whatever. Can't trust the clip shows, so we still don't know anything. 

Lots of hours until next week.


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## UTV2TiVo (Feb 2, 2005)

I thought that the dead guy that Naomi showed to Miles confirmed that Widmore did the plane crash cover-up. At least it proved that the dead guy thought it was done by Widmore.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I had forgotten the part where Locke goes back to be leader of the Others. That didn't last long. Poor Locke can't catch a break.


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## mrdazzo7 (Jan 8, 2006)

UTV2TiVo said:


> I thought that the dead guy that Naomi showed to Miles confirmed that Widmore did the plane crash cover-up. At least it proved that the dead guy thought it was done by Widmore.


No, he could have been on his way to report the purchase order and grave robberies to Widmore. IE, Widmore has this guy trying to gather up information on Ben (or Ben's organization). He finds out about the plane and the grave robberies but is found and killed before he can get the information to Widmore. Widmore then recruites Miles in order to find out what the dead guy knew.

OR, it could just as easily be the other way...the guy could have worked for Widmore and maybe stumbled upon Widmore's secret, and was killed as a result. Widmore then used him as the "audition" for Miles.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Me, I was hoping that the clip show would explore the new dynamic between Kate and Juliette by showing in contrast a long, slow motion recap with extra scenes added of Kate and Juliette's rainy mud fight. Sigh.


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## tgrim1 (Sep 11, 2006)

philw1776 said:


> Me, I was hoping that the clip show would explore the new dynamic between Kate and Juliette by showing in contrast a long, slow motion recap with extra scenes added of Kate and Juliette's rainy mud fight. Sigh.


Well, this is what I heard...


Spoiler



Kate will be caught hooking up with Juliet and it will forever be remembered by everyone, especially Sawyer, as "The Incident"


:up:


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> I thought that the fact that Hawking was Daniel's mother was telegraphed to us with absolutely no ambiguity; a certainty.
> 
> However, to my recollection, the only evidence we have that Widmore planted the fake plane was the say-so of Ben and some other others. As we know, their credibility isn't all that great. Didn't Widmore deny responsibility for it, claiming that Ben's people planted it?
> 
> I haven't watched the clip show yet, but my SP picked it up, of course. Probably get around to watching this weekend.


I know I was certain that Hawking was Daniel's mother, and I agree that it had been telegraphed. (But this IS Lost - sometimes you distrust things that are too telegraphed!) But I was more surprised at the Widmore claim too. Canon or not, it was just kinda odd to mention. Oh well. I'm like Jeff a bit - prove it to me. 



> Me, I was hoping that the clip show would explore the new dynamic between Kate and Juliette by showing in contrast a long, slow motion recap with extra scenes added of Kate and Juliette's rainy mud fight. Sigh.


A new frontier - Pay Per View Lost episodes!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The latest issue (I almost wrote 'episode') of Wired is guest edited by JJ Abrams. Apparently there's also a buried mystery with clues hidden in the mag.

Here's his essay from that issue:
J.J. Abrams on the Magic of Mystery


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

I like what he said about spoilers.


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Me, I was hoping that the clip show would explore the new dynamic between Kate and Juliette by showing in contrast a long, slow motion recap with extra scenes added of Kate and Juliette's rainy mud fight. Sigh.


Throw Penny in there and I'd pay to watch that.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> I like what he said about spoilers.


Dude, SPOILER TAGS!!!!


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

balboa dave said:


> I like what he said about spoilers.


+1

Never really thought about it that way, but I did like what he had to say.

(And yes, I usually take a look at spoilers, but I'm rethinking that now)


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> The latest issue (I almost wrote 'episode') of Wired is guest edited by JJ Abrams. Apparently there's also a buried mystery with clues hidden in the mag.
> 
> Here's his essay from that issue:
> J.J. Abrams on the Magic of Mystery


Good Article. Thanks for sharing.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Uh, oh.

Lost's Henry Ian Cusick Accused of Sexual Harassment
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b120656_losts_henry_ian_cusick_accused_of.html



> He then put his face in her cleavage and wagged his head back and forth, according to the lawsuit


Funny comment: NOT PENNY'S MOTORBOAT


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Lost's Henry Ian Cusick Accused of Sexual Harassment


For something he (supposedly) did back in October 2007. Why did she wait almost 18 months to file?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Maybe she realized that he wasn't so "special" after all. Or the bit where he kept repeating that the rules didn't apply to him.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)




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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


>


They shouldn't let 12-year-olds edit videos.

Greg


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Oh, come on... Not even a chuckle? I must have been in a mood for adolescent humor. The psychedelic ending just struck me as funny. Oh, well. Lame it is, then.

In other news, the non-adolescent part of me really enjoyed reading through this guy's blog: http://eyemsick.blogspot.com/.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

OK now THIS is funny. After Some Like It Hoth aired, some helpful folk edited the Wikipedia page for Empire Strikes Back to be written by Hugo Reyes. It's huge, so here's the link.

http://www.lostrofl.com/media/blogs/lostrofl/2009spring/empire.gif

Greg


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

For those who don't read Season Pass Alerts, the President is having a press conference on Wednesday night at 8 ET and ABC is covering it. Lost is scheduled to start at 9 p.m. as normal, but one never knows how long these things last. Thread here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=424454


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I logged in just to post "36 hours left!" but now maybe it's more due to the press conference. Thanks for the update!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

aindik said:


> For those who don't read Season Pass Alerts, the President is having a press conference on Wednesday night at 8 ET and ABC is covering it. Lost is scheduled to start at 9 p.m. as normal, but one never knows how long these things last. Thread here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=424454


Must. Restrain. Self.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Ooooh! The Season Five Blu Ray and DVD sets will also be available in a "Dharma Initiation Kit" version. I wonder what that means? Probably a Cracker Jack toy and some orientation materials. Whatever. I'll probably get it anyway.
http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Complete...ef=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1240988891&sr=1-2

Wow. This season is nearly over. How very very sad.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

12 hours 43 minutes left


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> 12 hours 43 minutes left


Not that anyone is counting.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

A thread in happy hour reminded me of this.. (and I didn't read this whole thread, but I did search for 'beer' on each page of it).

There was a serious anachronism in this episode.

When Sawyer and someone (Kate?) were on the swings drinking beers, the cans had modern 'flip' openers, not pull off tabs. They were in 1977.

According to Wikipedia:


> Stay tabs almost completely replaced pull-tabs in many parts of the world by the early 1980s,


Yes, I noticed that as being blatantly wrong when I watched the episode.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mattack said:


> A thread in happy hour reminded me of this.. (and I didn't read this whole thread, but I did search for 'beer' on each page of it).
> 
> There was a serious anachronism in this episode.
> 
> ...


That's it, I'm done with this stupid show.



By the way, was it beer, or Dharma beer?


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## ct1 (Jun 27, 2003)

mattack said:


> When Sawyer and someone (Kate?) were on the swings drinking beers, the cans had modern 'flip' openers, not pull off tabs. They were in 1977.


Wasn't there a webisode or comic about some early research the Dharma group was associated with into advanced can technology? They were trying to avoid discarded pull tab pollution on the island and came up with an early prototype of the flip opener and deployed it to a test site which just happened to be the canner supplying the beer to the 1977 drinkers we saw.

(oh come on, surely stranger things have happened on the island, right? )


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

That's exactly what someone posted on another site just after Hoth aired... with everything else that happens on the island, I can believe that the Dharma Initiative invented the flip top, but kept the technology to themselves. Once the Incident occurred, they needed money, fast, so they sold off things like the flip top. 

Greg


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Yeah, you'd think they'd also sell off there super-cool tranquilizer-taser-dart things that can be set for "stun" or "kill"; very effective... Wait the Others have those - but they stole them from Dharma, right...? I'm so confused


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> Yeah, you'd think they'd also sell off there super-cool tranquilizer-taser-dart things that can be set for "stun" or "kill"; very effective... Wait the Others have those - but they stole them from Dharma, right...? I'm so confused


Have a beer. Flip top or pull tab, who cares.


----------

