# Corrupt Season Pass - Condensed



## bullshark (Oct 14, 2004)

1) Everyone has it. It's not just you.
2) There is no safe solution except Forced manual record.
3) Get off your paranoid horse, DTivo is not out to get you.
4) SP and Wishlists are both affected
5) Any relief from deleting/re-entering SP's is temporary
6) Any relief from re-booting is temporary, but you HAVE TO DO IT.
7) The guide data is NOT corrupted
8) The change of year has NOTHING to do with it
9) Spontaneous reboots seen since mid December are probably related.
10) Tivo Geeks have noted bloated error logs (reset by reboot)
11) Go Here to complain:Email DirecTV 
12) Post your problem in this forum too:DirecTV TechSupport Forum

My $0.02 (not previously mentioned):

It is clearly a software issue. At the height of my problem (3 days ago):

A) The guide was just fine. I could navigate forward and view/record for days.

B) Pick Programs to Record was FUBAR. No matter what letters were entered in the "Search" function, it returned *exactly* 6 shows, the same 6 shows, none matching the entered letters, and navigating the shows "hung" the screen. Though I could navigate away, I could no longer operate the search screen. With the search hosed, OBVIOUSLY SPM can't produce a to-do list

...I wish I had written down the names.
...Rebooting from menu did not cure it.
...Rebooting by unplugging(insisted by Tech Support) did not fix it.
...Search function self corrected while speaking with LII tech support (40 minutes to get there)

3) The spontaneous reboots are *obviously* the result of the runaway log files.

4) I wouldn't be surprised if the whole issue is a cascade failure from the runaway error logging...that would explain the temporary nature of relief.

5) Combining log overflow (all disk space) with a normal indexing/update/query event to tables would result in catastophic damage to the program DB (current image), wouldn't it? Particularly if the programmers didn't catch the exception thinking it "impossible" because of their efficiency...

6) One other possibility is that someone (a disgruntled emp?) horked up a virus and somehow got DTivo to spread it.

HTH,

bullshark


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## John T Smith (Jun 17, 2004)

>3) Get off your paranoid horse, DTivo is not out to get you.

I am sure this is garbled, and I don't remember the author, but...

Never assign to malice that which is explained by stupidity or incompentence


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## dtremain (Jan 5, 2004)

John T Smith said:


> Never assign to malice that which is explained by stupidity or incompentence


   

Bullshark,

Very well said and quite informative.


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## Dkerr24 (Oct 29, 2004)

Actually, everyone DOES NOT have it. I hacked both of my DTivo's with the zipper script, and neither is connected to a phone line.

Have not seen a single reboot or show that did not record (unless of course I stopped the recording or cancelled the season pass myself.)


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Okay, everyone who does not know how to hack his box has it.


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## disco (Mar 27, 2000)

re: #2

There IS a "safe" solution for those who have a hacked DirecTiVo. It may be looked upon as being "dangerous", but I haven't had a reboot or missed Season Pass since implemented.


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## bullshark (Oct 14, 2004)

Dkerr24 said:


> Actually, everyone DOES NOT have it. I hacked both of my DTivo's with the zipper script, and neither is connected to a phone line.
> 
> Have not seen a single reboot or show that did not record (unless of course I stopped the recording or cancelled the season pass myself.)


Okay then, why did you read the post? 

I was trying to save others, like those that are actually suffering the misery, from having to glean from 1000 post in 20 threads what could be said in one post.

You and the other 2 people who have hacked/zippered directTivos are hereby excused. The post was not for you in the first place.

Since you're in the mood to be nitpicky though, you didn't hack anything.

Monkey see, monkey do is not hacking.


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

bullshark said:


> 7) The guide data is NOT corrupted


Nix on that one: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4771752&&#post4771752


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## bullshark (Oct 14, 2004)

goony said:


> Nix on that one: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4771752&&#post4771752


Nix on your nix.

The quide is not corrupt. They have changed the data stream temporarily (removing the new tags) until they get the software fixed, and then they will put the new data back. The software is broken, not the guide data.

From your own cite:

"_Temporary changes where made to the data stream... to remove the piece that was causing the problems. This is a *temporary fix*, until new software can be coded and tested_"

bullshark


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Yes, the software was broken ... by guide data that the TiVo software didn't know how to process. 

The guide data may as well have been corrupt, for if it wasn't changed in December, we wouldn't have had these problems.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Yes, the software was broken ... by guide data that the TiVo software didn't know how to process.
> 
> The guide data may as well have been corrupt, for if it wasn't changed in December, we wouldn't have had these problems.


From what I have been told... The guide data was enhanced to include a lot more data. However, it was done still with in the specifications for the guide data.

No other system (R15/HR20, non-dvr, Ultimate TV) had issues with the enhanced guide data.


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## patonenow (Jul 22, 2005)

EARL:
If that turns out to be fact then do you suppose that whoever tested the new more data was so surprised that it actually fixed something in the R15 that they were so excited that they forgot all about testing it on the tivo's as well?


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

Perhaps some pre-release testing of the enhanced guide data might have caught this ahead of time.

Why do users have to discover these major impacts to system reliability and performance?

This seems to be typical of the record of inadequate testing from DirecTV for all of their products, not just the TiVo-based products.

The enhanced guide data and the current DirecTiVo software (all versions) are incompatible. Too bad it takes a rash of trouble reports that are initially ignored to get the point across to DirecTV. They either don't believe the reported symptoms or they deliberately choose to ignore the problem and blame it on the customer or TiVo or anywhere else possible that is outside their doors.

Who has ultimate responsibility for these products functioning correctly? Not which company, but which person in that company?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

patonenow said:


> EARL:
> If that turns out to be fact then do you suppose that whoever tested the new more data was so surprised that it actually fixed something in the R15 that they were so excited that they forgot all about testing it on the tivo's as well?


But what if it "DID" pass their tests... as we have seen here... not everyone's system is freaking out. So the changes where with-in spec... and it passed the test cases they have for the unit.


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> But what if it "DID" pass their tests...


Then they need better tests.


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## patonenow (Jul 22, 2005)

EARL:
Let's say it did pass their tests, and it was really a quality test and not just something to get rushed out as "new". Then I have to bring a factor into play that makes it a whole new ballgame and a worst case ever.Could it be plausable that the satellites or one of them is having trouble with the electrical transmitting but not steady(might explain just some and not all tivo problems) and to go further some of the "local"uplinks are having problems blending the old with the new HD that in total it is a factor to consider. I really hate to even think that because you know as well as me that it would be way too much cost to fix that very easily. So D*'s answer would be to just live with it or maybe just give them a R15.


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

bullshark said:


> Nix on your nix.


Symantics then. I understood your sole mention of guide data as "there is no _change_ to the guide data", which indeed there had been.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't think it has anything to do with the satellites.

I think it does have to do with the contents of the data stream... but may or may not manifest itself... dependent of factors on a consumer end of things.


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## roehrle (Feb 8, 2004)

if it was the satellites I would think all units would be effected at rhe same time and that doesn't appear to be the case


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## patonenow (Jul 22, 2005)

I am inclined to agree with BOB and EARL as I don't know the specifics of when and how much data they send at one time or at intervals so to save space on the satellites or all at once. But I do keep in the back of my mind that a simple transistor or diode can be a bear to track. Troubleshooting 101 says you go back to the source that worked BEFORE you changed it but you would think that by this time it would have been discovered. Say they send the data and their sources say it is successful and by going into our download information screens it also says successful. BUT how do we or they know it is whole or complete? An intermittent bug in the satellite might cause some but not all to get it complete and the only way D* would know is if some customers start complaining.
I really don't know but it is interesting of some of the spins D* has put out over the years.


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## Curt Lindner (Jan 29, 2002)

I was having the season pass and wishlist issue as recently as last night, but now it seems to have corrected itself. I didn't reboot or anything. I went in just now to verify that 24 was going to record, and all my scheduled recordings are now set up for the next 10-14 days??


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

Dkerr24 said:


> Actually, everyone DOES NOT have it. I hacked both of my DTivo's with the zipper script, and neither is connected to a phone line.
> 
> Have not seen a single reboot or show that did not record (unless of course I stopped the recording or cancelled the season pass myself.)


Ditto that.

None of my DirecTivos have this issue. All 3 are hacked and none are connected to a phoneline. (1 160GB SD and both of my HDTivos.)


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## bullshark (Oct 14, 2004)

94SupraTT said:


> Ditto that.
> 
> None of my DirecTivos have this issue. All 3 are hacked and none are connected to a phoneline. (1 160GB SD and both of my HDTivos.)


The "hacked" part is key to your salvation.

IIRC, zippered/hacked Tivos clear the log every night along with faking a call and sundry other housekeeping items.

While the enhanced guide data is the stimulus, it seems that the runaway logging is the trouble maker.

Clean the log, no reboots
no reboots, no corrupted databases
no corrupted databases, no lost SPs or WL's


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## dturturro (Feb 1, 2002)

I looked into hacking my unit when all of this nonsense started being documented. I can't seem to find a simple step by step like the old Hinsdale CD from a few years back.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

It hasn't happend to my R10 that isn't hacked! So it isn't just hacked units. I haven't had it dial in over 340+ days but not sure why this has prevented it from choking.

Of course my other 3 hacked Tivos have been just fine.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

dturturro said:


> I looked into hacking my unit when all of this nonsense started being documented. I can't seem to find a simple step by step like the old Hinsdale CD from a few years back.


It can't get much easier than the Zipper

Zipper Discussion


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## Tburt (Nov 29, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> Okay, everyone who does not know how to hack his box has it.


No reboots or missed SPs for me on either of my non-hacked DTivos. I would have lost my 30 sec skip if I had. Also I have noticed no missing programs either.


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

bullshark said:


> The "hacked" part is key to your salvation.
> 
> IIRC, zippered/hacked Tivos clear the log every night along with faking a call and sundry other housekeeping items.
> 
> ...


My DVR40 running 4.01b doesn't clear the logs via cron. I clear them out. Maybe once every few months. I do have fakecall running though on it.


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## temp357 (Feb 18, 2004)

Yeah,
But what about all of the spontaneous failing hard drives? They must be from the same batch. What else would xplain all of them failing all together?


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

John T Smith said:


> >3) Get off your paranoid horse, DTivo is not out to get you.
> 
> I am sure this is garbled, and I don't remember the author, but...
> 
> Never assign to malice that which is explained by stupidity or incompentence


I've seen this attributed to Harlan Ellison. It sounds like something he would say, but he may very well have been quoting someone else.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

JMikeD said:


> I've seen this attributed to Harlan Ellison. It sounds like something he would say, but he may very well have been quoting someone else.


According to this site, it was Napoleon Bonaparte! 


> "Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by incompetence."
> - Napoleon Bonaparte (1769-1821)


(But who knows if you can really trust anything you read on the internet.)


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## hoopsbwc34 (Jan 28, 2003)

bullshark said:


> The "hacked" part is key to your salvation.
> 
> IIRC, zippered/hacked Tivos clear the log every night along with faking a call and sundry other housekeeping items.


My unit is not connected to a phone line, using fakecall and hacked PRE-zipper. It had the problem.

I stopped saving to the tvlog and haven't had a problem since.

It is not the phone line, it is the error logging. Hacking your system and using fakecall doesn't fix the problem automatically, unless you are cleaning up your logs (ie. used zipper to hack your system)


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

bullshark said:


> While the enhanced guide data is the stimulus, it seems that the runaway logging is the trouble maker.


I agree.

I wonder if DirecTV's QA group let the enhanced guide data run for a few days on their test DTiVos, sat down, used them, saw that everything "appeared' to be OK (i.e. guide data appeared correct), and then approved the change, not thinking to check "under the hood" for something like a run-away log file?


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## goony (Nov 20, 2003)

Some people never had issues... some were suggesting that it was aggravated by having SPs that included locals. My box that was logging errors the fastest had SPs with locals, while my other boxes with a much slower error rate had no locals at all. 

I think it was just a bug that sneaked in under the radar due to a shortened or less-than-thorough testing. I probably would have came to the same conclusion and OKd the change for the mass of DTivos. 

I think the people that put those kind of changes in must not have been in 100% communication with the support management, or if they were the support management wasn't in good communication with the front-line staff talking to customers. 

I work in IT and I am required to use a special messaging system that alerts a whole bunch of people when a change to a production box is occurring (including the "help desk") and they all have to acknowledge the change before it can be implemented. The system is a royal pain in the arse to use (I have to spell out a 'backout plan' if problems crop up), but it gets the job done well - everyone ends up on the same page and knows what is going on and when it is happening.


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## kenr (Dec 26, 1999)

bullshark said:


> The "hacked" part is key to your salvation.
> 
> IIRC, zippered/hacked Tivos clear the log every night along with faking a call and sundry other housekeeping items.
> 
> ...


I hacked my TiVos manually and to the best of my knowledge there's nothing I added to clear the logs, yet all 4 of my hacked DTiVo series 2 units haven't rebooted at all for months. There's got to be another answer why hacked units don't experience the problem.


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## extension 721 (Sep 29, 2005)

goony said:


> Then they need better tests.


Obviously...but there is no test that can fully predict reality.

Recalls are a fact of consumer life.

They stink...but let's look at the example here. People clamoring for the 6.3 update, pushing for it to come "sooner! sooner!" It was released. It caused problems. Then people yelled "too soon! too soon!"

before the problems, people wanted less testing.


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