# Remote won't stay in RF mode



## pwas

The remote is paired to my Roamio and will work in RF mode for a little while after I hold the TiVo button + D but then it will switch back to IR mode and then back and forth every few seconds or minutes. 

Anyone else have this problem or have any suggestions?

I've tried resetting the remote and removing the batteries.


----------



## captain5

Mine was DOA out of the box. I wonder if this is going to be a recurring problem?


----------



## Dan203

Anything nearby that could cause interference? 2.4GHz phone? Wifi access point? Etc...


----------



## Rkkeller

Mine seems to do the same, switches from ir to rf every couple presses.


----------



## ss-stingray

How do you know it's in rf of if mode?


----------



## Gary-B

Dan203 said:


> Anything nearby that could cause interference? 2.4GHz phone? Wifi access point? Etc...


I was having the same problem with my Roamio, every couple remote presses, no response but I'd see the yellow light on both my tivo's light up. Turned my routers wifi off and haven't had a problem in two days.


----------



## Unbeliever

ss-stingray said:


> How do you know it's in rf of if mode?


The LED at the top of the remote. (Red for IR).

--Carlos V.


----------



## pwas

Dan203 said:


> Anything nearby that could cause interference? 2.4GHz phone? Wifi access point? Etc...


I temporarily unplugged my router, which is in a different room to see if that could be the issue and it did the same thing.

It's really frustrating. When it actually is in RF mode it works great but it still constantly goes back to IR mode.


----------



## Dan203

Are you using wifi on the TiVo itself?


----------



## aaronwt

pwas said:


> I temporarily unplugged my router, which is in a different room to see if that could be the issue and it did the same thing.
> 
> It's really frustrating. When it actually is in RF mode it works great but it still constantly goes back to IR mode.


Maybe it is just defective? I have 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz going all throughout my condo and being used from a multitude of devices. My Romaio remote still works without issues. And actually has an excellent range. Far longer than any of my slide remotes has. Although I prefer to use the slide remote over the Romaio remote. I don't need to control the Romaio from the other end of my condo.


----------



## pwas

Dan203 said:


> Are you using wifi on the TiVo itself?


No, I'm not. I have it connected via Ethernet.


----------



## lessd

pwas said:


> The remote is paired to my Roamio and will work in RF mode for a little while after I hold the TiVo button + D but then it will switch back to IR mode and then back and forth every few seconds or minutes.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem or have any suggestions?
> 
> I've tried resetting the remote and removing the batteries.


My remote does it own RF to IR switching when I get more then about 4 feet from the Roamio, could be my phone near the TiVo I will remove the phone when I get a chance.


----------



## 483

This looks like it is the same issue I am having. 

What is the proper behavior on a functioning remote. If I am out of RF range does the remote fail to IR mode? 

I am guessing it should always output RF or IR depending on how it is setup?


----------



## CrispyCritter

********* said:


> I am guessing it should always output RF or IR depending on how it is setup?


Remember that it will always output IR (and thus flashing red) for the non-TiVo commands (TV Power, Volume, Mute, Input).


----------



## aaronwt

CrispyCritter said:


> Remember that it will always output IR (and thus flashing red) for the non-TiVo commands (TV Power, Volume, Mute, Input).


My Roamio remote doesn't flash red when I use the IR controls for my receiver. It still flashes amber.


----------



## pwas

It seems stupid to me that when I manually put it into RF mode it will still use IR, even for TiVo commands. I understand that it has to do the TV commands in IR, but you would think if you tell the remote to use RF it would use RF all the time and if the RF isn't working it just wouldn't work unless you switched it back to IR.

My problem is that I switch it to RF mode and it's working fine with the amber light flashing and so I stop pointing it at the box and one second later it's not working and I look down and it's only flashing red when I press button so I have to point it at the box for it to work. 

Obviously it's not that big of a deal to just put it into IR mode and point it at the box and it works fine, but I kind of have a coffee table in the way of the direct line to the box, so it's a little annoying to work around. If the RF mode actually worked like it is supposed to it would be perfect. 

Also, I don't think it could be interference, because when it actually is using RF mode and I see the amber light on the remote flashing, the box recognizes every press. You would think that if there was interference I would have some RF presses that wouldn't register. I'll sit there and it will be in RF mode and without moving the remote or doing anything I'm looking down at the remote while I'm pressing buttons and I'm seeing amber, amber, amber, amber, red, red, red, red, red, red... amber, amber, red, red, red, red.


----------



## dmaneyapanda

Hmm, I have noticed my remote go "unresponsive" for a few seconds at a time, and only recently noticed that it seemed to be switching to IR at those times for some reason. I'll keep an eye on it and see if I can find any patterns. (I do have both wifi and a phone with BT.)


----------



## 483

pwas said:


> Also, I don't think it could be interference, because when it actually is using RF mode and I see the amber light on the remote flashing, the box recognizes every press. You would think that if there was interference I would have some RF presses that wouldn't register. I'll sit there and it will be in RF mode and without moving the remote or doing anything I'm looking down at the remote while I'm pressing buttons and I'm seeing amber, amber, amber, amber, red, red, red, red, red, red... amber, amber, red, red, red, red.


That is exactly my experience as well.


----------



## Dan203

pwas said:


> It seems stupid to me that when I manually put it into RF mode it will still use IR, even for TiVo commands. I understand that it has to do the TV commands in IR, but you would think if you tell the remote to use RF it would use RF all the time and if the RF isn't working it just wouldn't work unless you switched it back to IR.
> 
> My problem is that I switch it to RF mode and it's working fine with the amber light flashing and so I stop pointing it at the box and one second later it's not working and I look down and it's only flashing red when I press button so I have to point it at the box for it to work.
> 
> Obviously it's not that big of a deal to just put it into IR mode and point it at the box and it works fine, but I kind of have a coffee table in the way of the direct line to the box, so it's a little annoying to work around. If the RF mode actually worked like it is supposed to it would be perfect.
> 
> Also, I don't think it could be interference, because when it actually is using RF mode and I see the amber light on the remote flashing, the box recognizes every press. You would think that if there was interference I would have some RF presses that wouldn't register. I'll sit there and it will be in RF mode and without moving the remote or doing anything I'm looking down at the remote while I'm pressing buttons and I'm seeing amber, amber, amber, amber, red, red, red, red, red, red... amber, amber, red, red, red, red.


I've used mine in RF mode quite a bit and never had this problem. Maybe yours is defective?


----------



## aasun

********* said:


> That is exactly my experience as well.


I'm having the same experience. I have two Roamios. Only 1 of them is having this issue. It's the same one with the TiVo in a different room (controlling it through a wall). I was just assuming that it was at the edge of the RF reception... and maybe losing it's "connection".. Maybe not?


----------



## Dan203

You should try swapping your two remotes and see if the problem follows the remote or the TiVo.


----------



## pwas

I was just chatting with TiVo support and the rep said it should be replaced. 

I'm going to call support tomorrow and see if TiVo will send me a replacement. Does anybody know if TiVo will replace the remote even though I bought it at Best Buy. I'd rather not try to get Best Buy to replace it, especially since I bought it online and there are no Roamios in stock in my area.


----------



## aaronwt

It is under warranty with TiVo. Don't they have a full 90 day warranty on the Roamio. So they might replace just the remote or require replacement of everything. But since you have two Roamios(or was that someone else?), to troubleshoot you should swap the remotes and see if the problem follows the remote. If it does then the remote is the issue. if it doesn't then the Roamio itself would be the problem.


----------



## pwas

That was someone else that had two. I just have the one. I'm hoping they'll replace just the remote. I don't want to have to bother with replacing the whole thing after going through all the trouble of setting it up.


----------



## Bramble

I ran around the house today doing some experiments, because I'm often using the remote in another room with a TV that's getting a signal from the tivo via a wireless a/v system, and I was noticing that sometimes the button presses weren't doing anything. It definitely seems that as an RF remote it works best when its pointing at the tivo. I can stand in the same room as the tivo, but point the remote away from the tivo and occasionally it will flash red and the button presses do nothing. But I also went to the farthest corner of the house, with no line of sight to the tivo. At that distance it was more prone to unresponsiveness, in fact it was harder to get it working again once it was in that state, but it always came back when I pointed it in the general direction of the tivo.

ETA: Oh, and I think its that the remote has to be pointed more towards the front of the tivo to work reliably, even if there's no line of sight. In the location I've been using it where I've been running into problems, even if I point it towards the tivo its pointed more to the side of the tivo based on the room orientation and tivo location, and I'm still having problems even when its pointed that way.


----------



## aaronwt

That doesn't sound good if you have to point the RF remote toward the TiVo. When I was using mine I rarely pointed it toward the Roamio. And when testing the distance, I could be anywhere in my condo and it stayed in RF mode and the Roamio still received the signals from the remote anywhere in my condo. Even past a brick firewall. My Slide remotes don't have anywhere near the same range.

But while that is a crazy amount of distance to receive signals, I have no use for it. As long as the remote works in the room, that is all I need. Which is what my slide remotes will do.


----------



## pwas

Just got off the phone with TiVo support they agreed it should be replaced, but they don't have any in stock in the warranty store yet, so they asked me to check back.


----------



## Gary-B

pwas said:


> Just got off the phone with TiVo support they agreed it should be replaced, but they don't have any in stock in the warranty store yet, so they asked me to check back.


Was just told the same thing. I'd have to return the box and remote to get a replacement remote. Tivo Support said they are aware of the problem and a fix in the Tivo software would fix this problem with the remote.


----------



## RSCHOON

Same situation here, I was wondering why the button press would sometime be unresponsive. Usually, if I just hit it again it will work. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.


----------



## lessd

The RF remote does not work as it should (I don't care as I use a Harmony remote) but when I tested the remote only once could I get the remote find to work.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

I have mine in strictly RF mode, as far as I know--that's the default, right? I haven't had any problems except that the light on the remote itself isn't functioning.


----------



## aasun

Ive swapped my Two remotes between the two roamios. Still having the problem with the same tivo (the problem did not follow the remote)

Use the remote 15-20 feet from a tivo that us behind a wall. When rf works, it's great. Frequently, the first few presses have a red light, indicating it's not sending an rf signal, just a it signal...which won't reach the tivo in this setting. 

Hoping that software update mentioned comes soon, and indeed fixes the problem!


----------



## lessd

aasun said:


> Ive swapped my Two remotes between the two roamios. Still having the problem with the same tivo (the problem did not follow the remote)
> 
> Use the remote 15-20 feet from a tivo that us behind a wall. When rf works, it's great. Frequently, the first few presses have a red light, indicating it's not sending an rf signal, just a it signal...which won't reach the tivo in this setting.
> 
> Hoping that software update mentioned comes soon, and indeed fixes the problem!


I have two Roamios + and I get the same problems your getting with the remotes, each Roamio does the same thing with each remote.


----------



## bbrown9

Did I miss something? I thought the remote only worked in RF mode and the TiVo could do either IR or RF. How did you find out how to set the remote into RF or IR mode? It defaults to RF, right?


----------



## Gary-B

bbrown9 said:


> Did I miss something? I thought the remote only worked in RF mode and the TiVo could do either IR or RF. How did you find out how to set the remote into RF or IR mode? It defaults to RF, right?


The remote will do both. Watch the light on the end of the remote. If it's red = IR, yellow = RF. Tivo button and Red C button changes to IR, Tivo Button and Green D changes to RF.


----------



## bbrown9

Gary-B said:


> The remote will do both. Watch the light on the end of the remote. If it's red = IR, yellow = RF. Tivo button and Red C button changes to IR, Tivo Button and Green D changes to RF.


How did you find that out?


----------



## Gary-B

bbrown9 said:


> How did you find that out?


http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2719

It's in the FAQ section of Support

To switch modes
Switching to IR mode

To enter IR mode, press and hold the TiVo+Red C buttons until the activity indicator on the remote control lights. The remote remains in IR mode until you enter the key combination that puts the remote into RF mode.
Switching to RF mode

Entering RF mode causes a paired remote that is currently operating in IR mode to switch to RF mode. This procedure has no effect in New Pairing mode or when the remote is unpaired. To change the remote control from IR mode to RF mode, press and hold the TiVo+Green D buttons until the activity indicator on the remote control lights.
To use the remote finder feature (Roamio Plus and Roamio Pro only)

Are you always losing your remote? The TiVo Roamio remote uses a remote finder feature to help you locate your missing remote. Just touch the amber image of the remote control on the front of the DVR to activate a familiar TiVo jingle on the remote. When you find the remote, press any button to deactivate the sound, or just wait 15 seconds for it to turn off automatically.

IMPORTANT: Only Roamio Plus and Pro DVRs support the remote finder feature, the 4-tuner Roamio does not have a remote finder. In addition, the Roamio remote must be in RF mode.
To perform a global reset

The Global Reset function unpairs the Roamio remote from the paired DVR, then clears any other remote settings, such as IR codes for your television or other A/V device. Use this function to unpair a remote and return it to the out-of-box settings.

IMPORTANT: You will need both the paired Roamio remote and the DVR to perform a global reset. If your paired remote has been lost or damaged, you will need to use a new remote in IR mode to put the DVR in a pairing state, then pair the new remote to the DVR. For instructions, see To Pair a different remote to your DVR.
To perform a global reset:

Press and hold the TiVo + TV Power buttons until the activity indicator blinks red.
Press Thumbs Down three times, then press Enter.

The activity indicator will flash red three times if the global reset is successful.


----------



## StevesWeb

My Roamio remote would not switch to RF mode, if I held TiVo-D keys it never blinked amber, although it would acknowledge TiVo-C by blinking red.

I was thinking it must be a defective remote when I decided to try a simulated Ctrl-Alt-Delete on the remote. I removed the batteries, put them back, and it started working in RF mode without being commanded.

It seems to be working as expected in RF mode now.


----------



## BruceShultes

StevesWeb said:


> My Roamio remote would not switch to RF mode, if I held TiVo-D keys it never blinked amber, although it would acknowledge TiVo-C by blinking red.
> 
> I was thinking it must be a defective remote when I decided to try a simulated Ctrl-Alt-Delete on the remote. I removed the batteries, put them back, and it started working in RF mode without being commanded.
> 
> It seems to be working as expected in RF mode now.


This is just a guess, but did you originally put batteries in the remote before your Roamio was powered up?

I suspect when batteries are inserted into the remote, it tries to pair up via RF and if it doesn't find one, it defaults to IR.


----------



## StevesWeb

BruceShultes said:


> This is just a guess, but did you originally put batteries in the remote before your Roamio was powered up?
> 
> I suspect when batteries are inserted into the remote, it tries to pair up via RF and if it doesn't find one, it defaults to IR.


I believe I did, and that theory sounds correct to me.


----------



## wco81

Mine only has amber but it definitely requires line of sight to the box for the remote actions to register.

It was fine until I turned on network remote control, figuring that would enable mobile apps to control. But then I noticed it no longer controlled the volume on my AVR nor the power on my TV, that I had set up.

So I turned off network remote control but it still isn't working without line of sight, though the transmission light is amber.


----------



## 483

This became a real issue this weekend trying to watch football games that were not live. 

I got to the point where I didn't dare FFWD towards the end of a game because I was afraid the remote would forget it was in RF mode and output several IR's in a row and I would fly through a critical part of the game before I could again communicate with the TiVo box.

Finally resorted to controlling the system with my iPhone. 

Anyone with this issue get any kind of resolution yet from TiVo?


----------



## 483

This continues to be a real problem for me. Took the remote down to the basement next to the Roamio to try IR from just two feet away. My remote never output IR. Even when it was in RF and would "stutter" to IR the TiVo box never recognized it nor did my IR repeater. 

I am now convinced my remote is defective. Getting it replaced will be the problem.


----------



## Dan203

Call TiVo they should replace it.


----------



## lessd

aasun said:


> Ive swapped my Two remotes between the two roamios. Still having the problem with the same tivo (the problem did not follow the remote)
> 
> Use the remote 15-20 feet from a tivo that us behind a wall. When rf works, it's great. Frequently, the first few presses have a red light, indicating it's not sending an rf signal, just a it signal...which won't reach the tivo in this setting.
> 
> Hoping that software update mentioned comes soon, and indeed fixes the problem!


I wanted to fix or find out why the RF remote worked on one Roamio Plus and not on the other Roamio Plus, so I took out the hard drive on both TiVos and switched out the little remote RF board in front of the hard drive, it is just plug into the motherboard but you must move the front panel forward to unplug this small board. After the board switch the RF problem stayed with the board so now the TiVo with the problem was fixed and the other unit now had the RF remote problem, I am sure TiVo will not send me a new remoter RF board and I don't want to go through the hassle of sending the unit back even if I am under the 30 day time, so I will live with the RF not working on that TiVo. As a side note one of the T-10 screws holding the hard drive had not been threaded, I replaced it with a treaded one I had. I wonder if a non threaded T-10 screw has any value, maybe I will put it on E-Bay.


----------



## Fsron

I am new to Tvio and did some quick checking with my remote. Mentioning that Im new so this may be totally dumb and off the mark. I believe my remote is working OK. 

Within 20 feet of the Tivo, line of site and no line of site, remote flashes yellow and the Tivo responds. I dont recall seeing red flashes.

35 feet in line of site the remote mainly flashes yellow and the Tivo pretty much responds.

30 feet behind walls, no IR possible. Remote mainly flashes red with an occasional yellow. Tivo only responds occasionally and I think that is with the occasional yellow.

I dont know of an instance where the remote is in RF mode, has flashed red, and and the Tivo responded. Although that scenario is certainly a possibility.

So how does the remote know how far away it is from the Tivo and to switch to IR mode even though it has no chance in IR? I dont notice mine flashing red when it is in range.

Are we sure the red flash in RF mode indicates it reverted to IR? Is it possible that the remote is more sophisticated and the yellow indicates that an RF transmission was sent AND that it was received. Two way communication.


----------



## jmpage2

The remote and the TiVo are using RF wireless to communicate and possibly have some kind of "ping" or acknowledgement to each other when buttons are being pushed so that they know they are in communication.

Without more understanding of the RF protocol being used its speculation.


----------



## 483

Called TiVo to replace the remote. I was told they don't have any. I either need to swap everything or except an older remote as replacement. That is disappointing.


----------



## TiVoMargret

We are currently looking into issues that some customers are experiencing with the Roamio RF remote control, and investigating whether we could do a software update to alleviate some of the problems.

It is a good idea to make sure your Roamio isn't too close to other devices that use the same wireless spectrum, like a WiFi router or a cordless phone. Your Roamio should be 3 to 5 feet away from other WiFi transmitters -- even further if you have something high strength like the 2Wire U-Verse router. You may also want to try other channels on your WiFi router and see if that improves things. 

If RF still is not working for you, you can set your Roamio remote to IR Mode, by pressing and holding TIVO and the red C button at the same time. (To return to RF Mode, press and hold TIVO and the green D button at the same time.)

I do not recommend exchanging your Roamio remote at this time. Please wait and see if we are able to update the software, and if that doesn't solve your issues, then an exchange might be in order.

I will update this thread again when there is a software update available.

Thanks for your patience.

--Margret


----------



## joblo

TiVoMargret said:


> If RF still is not working for you, you can set your Roamio remote to IR Mode, by pressing and holding TIVO and the red C button at the same time. (To return to RF Mode, press and hold TIVO and the green D button at the same time.)


I cant seem to get the TiVo-Pause combo to allow me to change the Raomio remote IR mode away from 0. Ive put the unit in IR mode, and Ive tried removing and reinserting the batteries out while the remote is out of RF range. TiVo-Pause still doesnt work.

Is there a new way to set the IR code on this remote?

I have 6 other TiVos all viewable and remote controllable throughout the house by IR repeater. A remote that can spontaneously go into IR mode 0 and start sending commands to all 7 TiVos is simply too dangerous to use.


----------



## 483

TiVoMargret said:


> I do not recommend exchanging your Roamio remote at this time. Please wait and see if we are able to update the software, and if that doesn't solve your issues, then an exchange might be in order.
> 
> I will update this thread again when there is a software update available.
> 
> Thanks for your patience.
> 
> --Margret


My issue is now resolved. Before I saw this message from Margaret I had already agreed to have a replacement TiVo overnighted to me. I received it today.

I spent the roughly 90 minutes to plug the box in, download the software, setup the cable card with Comcast, and such.

My remote paired flawlessly and things finally work like I would expect. I am so relieved.

With all due respect Margaret I don't know that it is fair to ask people to wait for a software update. I did nothing different and this time my experience is perfect. I have paid for a month of service and battled an inconsistent remote throughout. A DVR without a remote control is really not a real worthwhile toy.

Thanks so much to the TiVo folks that finally helped me out and got this thing resolved.


----------



## jgerry

I have this issue as well. I changed the channels on my wifi router, both 2.4 ghz and 5 ghz. This seems to have resolved my issue. All yellow (RF) all the time now. Let's hope it lasts!


----------



## jgerry

Nope. Never mind. It's flaking out again.


----------



## TiVoMargret

Our engineers suggest that choosing one of the following WiFi channels will minimize interference with the RF Remote:

(in order of preference): 1, 11, or 6


----------



## TiVoMargret

We are looking for a few people that have experienced issues with their RF remote to join our Beta program and see if the update helps. If you are interested, please:

1. Sign up at http://fieldtrials.tivo.com

2. Email me, and let me know you have signed up, with the subject: "Roamio RF Remote fix"

Thanks!
--Margret


----------



## flyerwire

Thanks for monitoring Margret, i've sent the email and really hope this is a software fix and not a hardware issue. Look forward to trying it


----------



## RSCHOON

Any updates on this issue? There was a software update last week, wasn't there? Was this issue added in that? Thanks for any info.


----------



## livefromny

I'd also appreciate an update. Just setup my new Roamio Pro and am having the same issue.


----------



## Devx

The latest update was supposed to address this for those having interference issues with the remote.

See changelog below:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=510259


----------



## Time_Lord

Anybody every get a true fix to this?

I am still experiencing this issue, I set the remote to RF mode and then maybe 15 minutes or so later the remote goes back to IR mode. A little frustrating as the IR control can be flaky sometimes because of where the TiVo sits.

-TL


----------



## Gary-B

Time_Lord said:


> Anybody every get a true fix to this?
> 
> I am still experiencing this issue, I set the remote to RF mode and then maybe 15 minutes or so later the remote goes back to IR mode. A little frustrating as the IR control can be flaky sometimes because of where the TiVo sits.
> 
> -TL


Get the new slide remote or stick to IR. My original remote was (is) having this problem. Got the new slide and haven't had a problem since.


----------



## Time_Lord

Gary-B said:


> Get the new slide remote or stick to IR. My original remote was (is) having this problem. Got the new slide and haven't had a problem since.


I know this thread is getting dated, but...

Not sure why I need to purchase a slide remote to resolve what is most likely a software issue.

Of course TiVo's customer service doesn't have the word "bug" in their vocabulary and so far has sent me a new remote controller and has also RMA'd the Roamio plus.


----------



## todd_j_derr

Are people having this problem with the slide remote or just the stock remote?

I never had an issue with a Premiere sitting in the same spot, using an "old" slide, although both of my "old" slides are now broken. Still, I'd probably pay $50 to resolve the problem.

OT, but it's also lame that the stock remote does not light up - definite downgrade from the Premieres that came with the Glo remote.


----------



## jmpage2

Time_Lord said:


> I know this thread is getting dated, but...
> 
> Not sure why I need to purchase a slide remote to resolve what is most likely a software issue.
> 
> Of course TiVo's customer service doesn't have the word "bug" in their vocabulary and so far has sent me a new remote controller and has also RMA'd the Roamio plus.


Have you considered the possibility that something in your home is creating radio interference with the remote/roamio?


----------



## todd_j_derr

Tivo certainly seems to be at least intimating it's an interference problem. I never had any issues with the old slide pro, although I know other people have.

So we're supposed to believe they designed a remote without considering the presence of WiFi? If that's what they did, that doesn't make it any better - it's not 1996.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

todd_j_derr said:


> Tivo certainly seems to be at least intimating it's an interference problem. I never had any issues with the old slide pro, although I know other people have.
> 
> So we're supposed to believe they designed a remote without considering the presence of WiFi? If that's what they did, that doesn't make it any better - it's not 1996.


Lots of other RF possibilities to consider, have you tried unplugging these briefly to maybe find the culprit? 
Wireless phone
Wireless speakers (bluetooth or otherwise)
Cellular phone
Airplay
Alarm system (e.g., wireless window sensors)


----------



## Time_Lord

Although the possibility exists that its an interference issue, I suspect its a software bug, most likely with the remote receiver on the Roamio.

I can confirm that the remote control DOES NOT transmit IR normally when it is in RF mode (exception when sending commands to the TV for volume/mute), you can confirm this yourself by taking a digital camera (cell phone works fine EXCEPT Apple products) and point the remote at the remote, you'll see the IR LEDs light up for the volume controls but not for other buttons when in RF mode. What I'll have to do is next time the problem shows up is see if the remote falls back to IR mode (I believe it does).

Part of the reason I say I don't believe its interference is because of how consistently the TiVo recovers from the RF failure, either point the remote directly at the TiVo and press any button, or press a button several times (4 or 5 times) on the remote and the Roamio will begin to respond again. If it was RF interference I'd expect the failure to last longer and not respond to the same recovery method consistently.

-TL


----------



## CrispyCritter

Time_Lord said:


> Although the possibility exists that its an interference issue, I suspect its a software bug, most likely with the remote receiver on the Roamio.
> ...
> Part of the reason I say I don't believe its interference is because of how consistently the TiVo recovers from the RF failure, either point the remote directly at the TiVo and press any button, or press a button several times (4 or 5 times) on the remote and the Roamio will begin to respond again. If it was RF interference I'd expect the failure to last longer and not respond to the same recovery method consistently.


It can't be a pure software bug. There are thousands of Roamios out there now, all with the exact same software as you, and those folks are not seeing the problem.

What it can be, is interference that TiVo might be able to work around by making the software more robust to errors caused by interference.

The root cause has to be either interference, or hardware. I.e., there has to be something in your particular setup that is sparking the problem.


----------



## Time_Lord

CrispyCritter said:


> It can't be a pure software bug. There are thousands of Roamios out there now, all with the exact same software as you, and those folks are not seeing the problem.
> 
> What it can be, is interference that TiVo might be able to work around by making the software more robust to errors caused by interference.
> 
> The root cause has to be either interference, or hardware. I.e., there has to be something in your particular setup that is sparking the problem.


Actually I'm more inclined to say software bug, I've now recreated the problem on 3 different units in my home, all in different areas. One of the units took some doing to recreate the problem since the TiVo is almost always in direct view of the remote control, I had to hide the remotes LEDs from the Roamio before the problem would show, and at that it shows up inconsistently.

To me it sounds like the remote and the TiVo loose sync and an IR command will trigger a resync automatically or after enough button presses in RF mode they will resync.

The nice things about bugs is you need to figure out what triggers them and not everybody is going to trigger the same bug.


----------



## CrispyCritter

Time_Lord said:


> The nice things about bugs is you need to figure out what triggers them and not everybody is going to trigger the same bug.


I agree, and I claim that you've pretty conclusively proved that you have interference somewhere in or around your house triggering your bug.

I see no way that software can trigger your bug, and not trigger the bug on thousands of other Roamios with identical software. A TiVo is not like a desktop PC, where every PC is running at least a slightly different set of software. All TiVos that match your model are running a bit-for-bit identical set of software - there are no differences in the software. And 99% of users out there are not reporting the problem.

Your experimentation has shown the possibility of hardware differences causing your problems is very unlikely. That only leaves something in your environment affecting the TiVo. It's unlikely, though I suppose remotely possible, that it could be electrical power or too strong of a cable signal. The most likely cause is interference somewhere in the RF spectrum, and nothing you've shown argues against that.


----------



## Time_Lord

CrispyCritter said:


> I agree, and I claim that you've pretty conclusively proved that you have interference somewhere in or around your house triggering your bug.


If its some sort of (RF) interference in my home causing it then why allowing the TiVo a single IR command cause the RF communications to resume again? If it was some sort of RF interference then I wouldn't expect a single IR command to reliably cause the RF remote to resume *EVERY* time.

Also reading through other threads there appears to be mention from TiVo that they were aware of this problem, although there was mention that a fix was pushed out, do you think its possible that this fix was incomplete?

I have also found other users that have the same issue and have found that the same recovery method works for them.

Yes this is the definition of a bug.

-TL


----------



## Neil Weinstock

Interestingly, my remote has the opposite problem: it insists on using RF, and won't stay in IR mode for more than a minute or two, if I'm lucky. The reason I want IR mode is so I can program the A-D buttons onto another learning remote.

I have an old Tivo remote that I was able to use to program all the rest of the buttons, but it doesn't have the A-D buttons.

Argh.


----------



## jmbissell

Time_Lord said:


> If its some sort of (RF) interference in my home causing it then why allowing the TiVo a single IR command cause the RF communications to resume again? If it was some sort of RF interference then I wouldn't expect a single IR command to reliably cause the RF remote to resume *EVERY* time.
> 
> Also reading through other threads there appears to be mention from TiVo that they were aware of this problem, although there was mention that a fix was pushed out, do you think its possible that this fix was incomplete?
> 
> I have also found other users that have the same issue and have found that the same recovery method works for them.
> 
> Yes this is the definition of a bug.
> 
> -TL


I have been having the same problem w/ my Roamio. TiVo sent me a new remote and I thought it was working OK but it quickly reverted to the same behavior. RF works for a few button presses but then shifts into IR mode. Sometimes I can get it back nto RF by turning the remote a certain way. I connect the Roamio on Ethernet and have Panasonic Dect 6.0+ cordless phones in use.

I don't what RF frequency TiVo is using but I can't believe they designed a remote to conflict w/ Wi-Fi or cordless phones. I hope it's a s/w problem that will get fixed at some point.


----------



## chrison600

I'll jump in here with a thought. My original Roamio remote exhibited the erratic RF/IR behavior (pressing buttons, yellow, yellow, red, yellow, yellow, yellow, red, red, red, orange (both), yellow, red, etc).

I contacted TiVo support and they sent another remote. Set it up, same behavior. Not related to distance, and no walls.

The only wireless device that's close to the TiVo is a wireless sub. Is this the possible culprit?

Chris


----------



## chrison600

I have confirmed that the sub is using the 2.4GHz band. Will this conflict with the Roamio radio?


----------



## Time_Lord

chrison600 said:


> I have confirmed that the sub is using the 2.4GHz band. Will this conflict with the Roamio radio?


Dunno, I'm guessing the wireless remote is also in the 2.4GHz band so there is a chance that it will.

TiVo has since RMA'd my original Roamio and the problem still exists, no surprise, but now I have 2 spare remotes, the one they sent when I first called about the problem in hopes that it fixed the problem, and then the remote with the replacement TiVo, I kept that remote too since the return instructions said to only ship the DVR not the accessories.

I figure remotes tend to fail as they get older so now I have some spares. Not sure what i'm going to do with a spare power cord.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Yes the remote's working frequency range is around 2.4 GHz. Unplugging things one at a time that work at that frequency is an easy experiment.

Cordless phones, wifi router, wireless USB, bluetooth, baby monitor, garage opener, wireless cameras, Zigbee stuff, game console remotes, microwaves. Everybody uses 2.4 GHz. It is a really noisy space.


----------



## Floridaman

I have the Roamio Pro DVR and the remote is horrible. It doesn't always respond unless you aim the remote directly to the DVR. The RF mode is activated and I am on my second remote now. Tivo sent a replacement and it exhibits the same behavior. The RF mode does work sometimes but not consistently. I have reset the DVR as well. I called Tivo last night and we reset the remote which didn't change the behavior. They are suggesting that the Pro unit might be defective and wanted to send me a replacement. I find it hard to believe the box would be defective as everything else works fine except for bugs in the software. I worked out a deal with Tivo to send me a slide remote in hopes this will work better than the factory remote. I also have a remote from my previous Premiere DVR and it works fine with the Roamio but doesn't have the RF function. I wanted to get some opinions from other users as to whether you think the remote is the problem or if I have a bad box.


----------



## Time_Lord

I too have the same RF issue, TiVo ended up replacing the Roamio and the problem has not been eliminated.

I actually have 2 Roamio's here and have reproduced the problem on both units.

Reading through some older posts it looks like there was some acknowledgement from TiVo that "some" users were experiencing issues and that a software update solved the issue. I contend that the fix drastically curtailed the problem but did not eliminate them.

On a side note the replacement unit doesn't seem to suffer as badly with the RF remote problem as the original unit did.

-TL

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


----------



## Floridaman

Time_Lord said:


> I too have the same RF issue, TiVo ended up replacing the Roamio and the problem has not been eliminated.
> 
> I actually have 2 Roamio's here and have reproduced the problem on both units.
> 
> Reading through some older posts it looks like there was some acknowledgement from TiVo that "some" users were experiencing issues and that a software update solved the issue. I contend that the fix drastically curtailed the problem but did not eliminate them.
> 
> On a side note the replacement unit doesn't seem to suffer as badly with the RF remote problem as the original unit did.
> 
> -TL
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


Just got off the phone with Tivo and they insist the box is bad. My fear is that I get a replacement and will have the same problem. Can you elaborate on your exact issues with the old one verses the new unit? How much of an improvement is the new unit over the old one? I have to believe that there is still a software glitch that affects some users. There has also been mention of a bad RF module in the box itself.

Thanks


----------



## Time_Lord

Floridaman said:


> Just got off the phone with Tivo and they insist the box is bad. My fear is that I get a replacement and will have the same problem. Can you elaborate on your exact issues with the old one verses the new unit? How much of an improvement is the new unit over the old one? I have to believe that there is still a software glitch that affects some users. There has also been mention of a bad RF module in the box itself.
> 
> Thanks


The "new" unit does not appear to loose the RF signal as often, but when it does a single IR command to the Roamio restores the RF signal.

The good news is you'll now have a spare remote as TiVo only wants the old DVR returned back the return instructions say not to return any of the accessories, cables, or paperwork.

-TL


----------



## 483

I have had this problem off and on since August. After the remote screwed up last night and I could not get it to stop fast forwarding through the final 1 minute of the Arizona vs Wisconsin overtime I finally bought the slide remote today. I hope that provides a fix. Seems to be about the only idea that has produced some results. Crazy I have to spend $60 to get my Roamio to work.


----------



## Mark Rubin

I have a similar story

my problem started when Tivo replaced my 1 month old Roamio Pro with a new one because of an unrelated problem: the new box resolved that problem but now I have the remote switching back and forth RF to IR issue: on all 3 remotes: it happens within 5 feet range from the Tivo: the room has plenty of potential interference sources including a WAP

but the original box was flawless with regard to RF remote control: so I traded one issue for another


----------



## rgotchall

Is this resolved? I have the same issue (won't stay in RF mode).
The crazy thing is that I seem to have two unrelated problems (I might not be alone).

My setup is all of my AV equipment is in a cabinet about 15ft from the couch. 

Problem 1) I cannot just use RF all the time because it doesn't stay in RF mode along with many others. So the remote works fine for 10-15 presses then it goes to IR mode and does nothing. 

Now the weird thing is I wouldn't care, since I have a good IR repeater setup. IR works for everything else (AV receiver, DVD player) but it doesn't work at all for the Tivo. If I set up my Harmony remote for Tivo mode (IR only remote) it works with line of site to the Tivo but not over the repeater; it fails in IR transmission the same way the RED led button pushes on my tivo remote do.

problem 2) I cannot seem to IR repeat the Tivo using either the Tivo remote or my Harmony remote.

If either worked I wouldn't care. RF is ok, I would just put down the Harmony remote and use the Tivo remote for watching tv (volume controls ALWAYS work since it sends IR signals that work fine with the AV reciever). Or, if IR worked I could use either remote and just disable the RF.

Earlier in this thread everyone was poo-pooing the guy who said the IR repeating didn't work and I can confirm it doesn't. I am using a high-end Xantech repeater that works with anything else.


----------



## jmbissell

I continue to have Problem #1. If I sit on the couch and use the remote, it works in RF sporadically and usually only if I hold it in a certain position. However, I can get up and move to another room and it works dependably! TiVo replaced the remote months ago but both remotes have the same problem. I have 5GHz cordless phones in the room but even after moving the handsets far away the problem persists. The other rooms where the remote does work in RF also have phone extensions in them so I don't think that is the problem. Nor is my 2.4GHz/5GHz wireless router.

It's very strange and I've just learned to put up with it since no solution seems to be forthcoming. Luckily, I do have line-of-sight to the TiVo from a position on the couch so I'm wondering if it somehow that causes it to revert to IR and not stay in RF mode.


----------



## Mark Rubin

my solution was move the Tivo out of the rack: it is now on a wooden shelf in the equipment room: RF is much more stable

jmbissell: I pointed the remote at the Tivo and it remained in RF mode


----------



## L David Matheny

jmbissell said:


> I continue to have Problem #1. If I sit on the couch and use the remote, it works in RF sporadically and usually only if I hold it in a certain position. However, I can get up and move to another room and it works dependably! TiVo replaced the remote months ago but both remotes have the same problem. I have 5GHz cordless phones in the room but even after moving the handsets far away the problem persists. The other rooms where the remote does work in RF also have phone extensions in them so I don't think that is the problem. Nor is my 2.4GHz/5GHz wireless router.


Can you just remove power from the cordless phones for testing purposes? And maybe try the same with the wireless router? Are there any surfaces in the TV room that might be reflective to RF? Maybe a section of wall covered in metal or metal foil on insulating board under drywall or whatever? I suppose it's possible that you could get multipath interference in the signal from the RF remote.



jmbissell said:


> It's very strange and I've just learned to put up with it since no solution seems to be forthcoming. Luckily, I do have line-of-sight to the TiVo from a position on the couch so I'm wondering if it somehow that causes it to revert to IR and not stay in RF mode.


I'm not sure how the choice between RF and IR is made. Does the TiVo always listen for both and then ignore the IR signal if an (intelligible) RF signal is also received?


----------



## krkaufman

rgotchall said:


> Earlier in this thread everyone was poo-pooing the guy who said the IR repeating didn't work and I can confirm it doesn't. I am using a high-end Xantech repeater that works with anything else.


I can't speak for someone else's setup but we're using Powermid IR extenders to remotely control a Mini v2 down in a basement closet.

Our setup:

Roamio & Slide Pro remotes (in IR mode, w/ remote address set to 2)
TiVo Mini v2
Powermid transmitters/receivers (both old and new models)


----------



## redbeard25

I am having the same problem... and have for a long time. 

Why does the remote switch between RF and IR? How in the world could it "know" whether an RF signal would reach the Tivo? Is there anyway to force it into RF-only mode?


----------



## ej42137

redbeard25 said:


> I am having the same problem... and have for a long time.
> 
> Why does the remote switch between RF and IR? How in the world could it "know" whether an RF signal would reach the Tivo? Is there anyway to force it into RF-only mode?


You could put electrical tape over the IR window, but then you couldn't control the auxiliary devices like your TV from the TiVo remote.

A better way might be to set the IR address of the remote to something you don't use, like address 9, and set all your TiVo receivers to some other IR address. This is what I have done.

Link to thread discussing how to change IR addresses on TiVo remotes and receivers.


----------



## redbeard25

ej42137 said:


> You could put electrical tape over the IR window, but then you couldn't control the auxiliary devices like your TV from the TiVo remote.
> 
> A better way might be to set the IR address of the remote to something you don't use, like address 9, and set all your TiVo receivers to some other IR address. This is what I have done.
> 
> Link to thread discussing how to change IR addresses on TiVo remotes and receivers.


Here's the problem though. I want it yellow (RF) all the time. When I press the Tivo buttons (like, say, the "Tivo" button,) it goes

yellow
yellow
yellow
red
yellow
yelllow
red
red
red
red
yellow
yellow

It's like the remote itself is saying, "I'm not going to even try RF. I'm just going to go IR for this press."


----------



## aaronwt

It sounds like something is wrong. I use six remotes in rf mode and they stay in rf mode unless I take it out of range. And I would need to go to the other end of my condo to go out of range. It is pretty far.


----------



## RoyK

redbeard25 said:


> Here's the problem though. I want it yellow (RF) all the time. When I press the Tivo buttons (like, say, the "Tivo" button,) it goes
> 
> yellow
> yellow
> yellow
> red
> yellow
> yelllow
> red
> red
> red
> red
> yellow
> yellow
> 
> It's like the remote itself is saying, "I'm not going to even try RF. I'm just going to go IR for this press."


 Same frequently happens to me too. It comes and goes. Very frustrating especially when trying to stop a fast forward. I even bought a new remote but the same thing happens with it.


----------



## bbrown9

Mine just started doing this recently. I thought it might be the batteries but it says 80% or something like that on the info screen. I tried changing them anyway just in case the info screen isn't accurate. It made no difference.


----------



## krkaufman

If your remote is having trouble maintaining its RF connection, you may consider adjusting the location of the associated Mini or DVR. My connectivity improved when I moved my Mini from just behind/below our 65" Sony LCD to about 5-ft to its left.


----------



## bbrown9

Nothing has changed with my setup, though. The TiVo and the TV are both in the same locations for a long time. I'm sitting the same disatance away. The remote just started acting funny. I wonder if this one is just on its way out and I should get a new one.


----------



## Teeps

My Roamio remote exhibits the same or similar behavior as in post #91. 
Has done this since new.
But because of this thread I did not seek a remedy from TiVo... 
Guess we are all still waiting for that vapor-ware Margarete implied was coming.


----------



## RoyK

bbrown9 said:


> Nothing has changed with my setup, though. The TiVo and the TV are both in the same locations for a long time. I'm sitting the same disatance away. The remote just started acting funny. I wonder if this one is just on its way out and I should get a new one.


If it works fine sometimes and gets flakey sometimes it's the same problem many of us are seeing. A new remote won't help, I can testify to that.


----------



## El Maestro

I am sure you tried this, but...

I was having this problem and it was really slowing the TiVo down...I think the remote was sometimes sending IR and RF at the same time, and some button presses would cause stutters/hiccups in video and audio. I re-paired the remote with the Roamio and now it stays in RF mode and I no longer have the stutter issue on button presses. I had to do this once or twice in succession and it's been fine for months.


----------



## redbeard25

El Maestro said:


> I am sure you tried this, but...
> 
> I was having this problem and it was really slowing the TiVo down...I think the remote was sometimes sending IR and RF at the same time, and some button presses would cause stutters/hiccups in video and audio. I re-paired the remote with the Roamio and now it stays in RF mode and I no longer have the stutter issue on button presses. I had to do this once or twice in succession and it's been fine for months.


I _didn't_ think of that, but I just did it, and it seems to help. Odd that it could get in a "partially paired" state. Thanks!


----------



## RoyK

redbeard25 said:


> I _didn't_ think of that, but I just did it, and it seems to help. Odd that it could get in a "partially paired" state. Thanks!


I have done that several times in the 7 months I've had my Roamio. It does sometimes help for a short time but then the problem starts again. Holding down the D button and the tivo button to force the remote to RF mode sometimes works, again for a while. Same experience with both the remote that came with the box and the new one I purchased from Amazon.


----------



## convergent

I just installed a Roamio and 2 Minis, and I've noticed the Roamio remote is doing this. The 2 Minis seem to be consistently working with RF with no problem. The Roamio is sitting on an open rack about 7' from me with no obstructions and there is no wireless phone or anything this room. Strange. I'm going to try swapping the remotes around to see if it follows the remote or not.


----------



## krkaufman

convergent said:


> I just installed a Roamio and 2 Minis, and I've noticed the Roamio remote is doing this. The 2 Minis seem to be consistently working with RF with no problem. *The Roamio is sitting on an open rack about 7' from me with no obstructions *and there is no wireless phone or anything this room. Strange. I'm going to try swapping the remotes around to see if it follows the remote or not.


Is it sitting anywhere near other RF (Wi-Fi) devices, such as a Wi-Fi enabled HDTV?


----------



## convergent

krkaufman said:


> Is it sitting anywhere near other RF (Wi-Fi) devices, such as a Wi-Fi enabled HDTV?


Wifi devices... they are all over the house. There are iPads, Smartphones, and laptops ... probably 10 of them total in the house. I don't think there are any more or less in the different rooms. There is also a router and a couple of Wifi network extenders. If they created a system that is disrupted by Wifi, that is a pretty bad design.


----------



## Teeps

El Maestro said:


> I am sure you tried this, but...
> 
> I was having this problem and it was really slowing the TiVo down...I think the remote was sometimes sending IR and RF at the same time, and some button presses would cause stutters/hiccups in video and audio.
> 
> I re-paired the remote with the Roamio and now it stays in RF mode and I no longer have the stutter issue on button presses.
> 
> I had to do this once or twice in succession and it's been fine for months.


Roamio Basic, (a referb, after original RB failed after just 96 days of use.)
I did the "pairing" procedure yesterday. 
Had no problems, with the remote switching from RF to IR and back to RF.

However, in reading the instructions on the remote pairing page.
I did not see the indicator blink or even come on when landing on the pair remote page...


----------



## opus472

After an hour in chat with a rep, they're sending me a new remote. Kinda hard to believe it's defective, everything seems to work ok except switching to RF.


----------



## pagefault

+1 on seeing random drops into IR mode with my Roamio/Roamio remote.

Not seeing the same issue with my Roamio/Slide Pro remote in the other room.


----------



## JoeKustra

pagefault said:


> +1 on seeing random drops into IR mode with my Roamio/Roamio remote.
> 
> Not seeing the same issue with my Roamio/Slide Pro remote in the other room.


I caused a reduction of the IR mode when I did a reset of the remote. It's a pain since it controls my TV and AVR, but I wrote down the numbers. This is my second remote.


----------



## dougdingle

I have a Roamio Plus (upgraded to a Pro with a 3TB drive), and three minis, and the Roamio and at least two of the Minis have this problem. I have re-paired the remotes, forced RF mode only, and *the problem just keeps returning*.

This is an ongoing and remarkably frustrating problem for MANY, with no apparent long term solution.

I am reminded of the issue with the first batch of DirecTiVos, where the remote shipped with it was an unresponsive slug. TiVo immediately replaced all the bad ones with new ones that worked. So this is not something totally new, although TiVo's complete lack of response to the problem is.

I am very disappointed that after a decade of being a TiVo customer (since the Series 1), I have to put up with this poorly designed and implemented remote.

It just spoils the entire experience.


----------



## TonyD79

Didja try new batteries? Didn't see that in your post. May have missed it.


----------



## dougdingle

TonyD79 said:


> Didja try new batteries? Didn't see that in your post. May have missed it.


Of course. Devices indicate 100% remote battery level.


----------



## dlfl

Try a "Global Reset":
https://support.tivo.com/SupportPor...-Perform-a-Global-Reset-for-my-Remote-Control
This is different from just re-pairing.

There is definitely something squirrelly with TiVo RF remote system that allows it to get in a mode where it's RF most of the time but drops back to IR sometimes. In my case the IR drop-backs occur for certain angles of the remote, even though it's only 8 ft from the TiVo. Mine will go for weeks with no IR drop-backs after a Global Reset then will start dropping back. It's never been bad enough to motivate me to ask for a warranty replacement though. (That will happen after my year is up.)


----------



## dougdingle

dlfl said:


> Try a "Global Reset":
> https://support.tivo.com/SupportPor...-Perform-a-Global-Reset-for-my-Remote-Control
> This is different from just re-pairing.
> 
> There is definitely something squirrelly with TiVo RF remote system that allows it to get in a mode where it's RF most of the time but drops back to IR sometimes. In my case the IR drop-backs occur for certain angles of the remote, even though it's only 8 ft from the TiVo. Mine will go for weeks with no IR drop-backs after a Global Reset then will start dropping back. It's never been bad enough to motivate me to ask for a warranty replacement though. (That will happen after my year is up.)


I've done that to each remote 3 or 4 times now. The problem always returns, just as it does with yours, except mine returns in a few days.

It is utterly ridiculous to have to do anything of the sort on a piece of consumer gear that cost almost $800 with lifetime service while the company stonewalls and issues procedures that need to be repeated often to make the device useful. I'm waiting for the support bulletin that says you have to stand on your left leg while sticking a wet finger into your right ear and holding the remote at a precise 45 degree angle to make sure it stays in RF mode.

Would people be as tolerant of, say, an $800 Samsung big screen which had the same remote dysfunctional issues? I highly doubt it.


----------



## atmuscarella

At times my base Roamio has issues responding to it's remote which appear to be RF connectivity issues. Because I pretty much do everything through my Bolt I haven't bothered to try and fix it. Has anyone tried a new remote? If so did that fix the problem or was it necessary to replace the TiVo to get the issues resolved?


----------



## JoeKustra

atmuscarella said:


> At times my base Roamio has issues responding to it's remote which appear to be RF connectivity issues. Because I pretty much do everything through my Bolt I haven't bothered to try and fix it. Has anyone tried a new remote? If so did that fix the problem or was it necessary to replace the TiVo to get the issues resolved?


If you hit a button on the remote and nothing happens, look at the remote before you try again. If the LED is red, it has dropped into IR mode. Wait a few seconds and try again. My Roamio can not be seen (it's behind a barrier). It never responds to IR. It's the second remote I have tried.

I'm not going to replace the TiVo for this problem. I have a Mini v2 in RF mode and it never has this problem. Could it be the Roamio? Perhaps.


----------



## dougdingle

JoeKustra said:


> I have a Mini v2 in RF mode and it never has this problem. Could it be the Roamio? Perhaps.


I have a Roamio Plus and three v2 Minis, and the Roamio and two of the three Minis have this problem.

One of the Minis occasionally acts like its possessed, and will respond to a PgDown command in the guide as if there were TWO PgDown commands issued, after which, without any further button pushes from me, will do two PgUps on the guide, and I wind up where I was. Others have noted this behavior as well.

It is absolutely *maddening*. Completely ruins the user experience.

For the last decade, I recommended the TiVo to everyone. Now I don't recommend it to anyone, ever.


----------



## FitzAusTex

Been having this problem with two Basic Roamios since 2014. Have turned off everything in house including ceiling fans, AC, and even the TV. Nothing helps. Gripping the remote too tightly makes it worse. Moving the direction of remote 2 degrees might help, might not. The ONLY thing that always helps is using the RF dongle that I got with my Slide remote. That dongle works perfectly! Only problem is that it is a crap shoot as to whether the dongle will be recognized by the Roamio. It is only recognized upon Roamio reboot MAYBE 1 in 25 times. I wish I knew how to break or deactivate the built-in RF module in the Roamio, because I suspect that the dongle would then be recognized 100% of the time.

Can anyone help me with locating/deactivating the built-in RF in my Roamio?


----------



## aaronwt

The recent software update caused me to lose RF pairing with my Slide Pro and my ROmaio Pro. No matter what I did it wouldn't pair. So I needed to force the pairing by holding the TiVo button and some other button on the remote(I think the back button). To force it to pair while on the pairing screen.


----------



## pagefault

aaronwt said:


> The recent software update caused me to lose RF pairing with my Slide Pro and my ROmaio Pro. No matter what I did it wouldn't pair. So I needed to force the pairing by holding the TiVo button and some other button on the remote(I think the back button). To force it to pair while on the pairing screen.


In my case, the remote is clearly still paired - it works in RF most of the time. It's just occasionally that it falls into IR mode for a few seconds.

Since I don't have line of sight, it's basically useless while it's in IR mode.


----------



## dsando

Finding the thread is really interesting!

I have had my Base Roamio and Mini's for almost a year now and have never had a problem with my RF remotes, however I have just started having the same problems describe here.

My Base Roamio with Slide remote keeps randomly switching back and forth between RF (yellow) and IR (red)

My Mini with normal RF remote keeps randomly sending 2 x page down when scrolling through the guide.

I recently replace my wifi access points and thought it may be tied to that, however I am not starting to wonder if it was something in a Tivo software update.

I turn off the AP's and will try to do some more troubleshooting this weekend.


----------



## L David Matheny

dsando said:


> Finding the thread is really interesting!
> 
> I have had my Base Roamio and Mini's for almost a year now and have never had a problem with my RF remotes, however I have just started having the same problems describe here.
> 
> My Base Roamio with Slide remote keeps randomly switching back and forth between RF (yellow) and IR (red)
> 
> My Mini with normal RF remote keeps randomly sending 2 x page down when scrolling through the guide.
> 
> I recently replace my wifi access points and thought it may be tied to that, however I am not starting to wonder if it was something in a Tivo software update.
> 
> I turn off the AP's and will try to do some more troubleshooting this weekend.


I've wondered sometimes just how the RF-capable remotes decide when to send RF versus IR or what color LED to flash. When sending to a TV or AVR, presumably they just send IR. But when sending to a TiVo, do they detect some continuous RF beacon from the box and send RF only if it's present? Or do they always send both and then flash the right color LED only if there is an RF handshake from the box? Or what?

Some posts in this thread have caused me to wonder recently if sending both RF and IR commands simultaneously to a TiVo could in some circumstances cause the box to recognize and act upon both signals instead of ignoring the redundant IR signal like it's presumably supposed to do. This could be the result of some sort of timing problem.

My 4-tuner Roamio (used only for OTA) has on at least one occasion doubled presses of the Live TV button when cycling past _only one of the four tuners_, refusing to stop on only that tuner each time around. That surely can't have been a coincidence caused by hardware "contact bounce" or whatever. I wonder if a bit more code has to execute when cycling from tuner 3 back to tuner 0, with the extra millisecond or two causing what should be seen as a duplicate IR code to be seen instead as independent from the RF code which it should have matched, or something like that. Food for thought.


----------



## JoeKustra

It has merit since my basic Roamio can not receive IR codes. So when a command fails, I wait a few seconds and try it again. Sometime I look at the remote and see a red LED. Sometimes not, so I wait.


----------



## JoeKustra

Ok, this is strange. I have found that when my Roamio remote, set in RF mode, drops to IR mode, that if I cover the front with my hand the RF mode returns. The front of my Roamio is blocked so IR commands can never reach the box. It works every time.


----------



## dougdingle

JoeKustra said:


> Ok, this is strange. I have found that when my Roamio remote, set in RF mode, drops to IR mode, that if I cover the front with my hand the RF mode returns. The front of my Roamio is blocked so IR commands can never reach the box. It works every time.


I'll play with that a bit, although it's not a solution because most people (including me) use the IR part for power, volume, and mute functions. And I shouldn't have to cover the front of the remote on a system that, all told, cost about a thousand dollars in order to have it do stuff reliably.

The Roamio and Minis definitely have remote problems, have had them from the beginning. I have a Pro and three Minis, and all exhibit to some extent the same stupid behavior detailed in this (and other) threads, although the Minis are worse here. TiVo's 'solution' of resetting and re-pairing the remote works for, at most, a few days, after which it reverts to being deranged again.

Since it's the main interface to the box, and a lot of the user experience derives from how responsive the system is to commands, it astonishes me that TiVo had done nothing but stonewall users while incapable of solving this incredibly frustrating issue for many of its customers.

I mean seriously, what the hell, TiVo?


----------



## JoeKustra

True, I control my AVR and TV with the remote, and it doesn't ALWAYS drop into IR mode, but this is my second remote. On a different Roamio the remote seems to stutter a lot. I never have problems on the Mini.


----------



## pagefault

JoeKustra said:


> Ok, this is strange. I have found that when my Roamio remote, set in RF mode, drops to IR mode, that if I cover the front with my hand the RF mode returns. The front of my Roamio is blocked so IR commands can never reach the box. It works every time.


I doubt covering it is doing anything. When mine drops to IR mode, it only does IR for a second before going back to RF on its own. Covering it is probably just coincidental to it working again.


----------



## dlfl

I've found my remote (Roamio basic) starts sporadically reverting to IR mode after any TiVo restart. For example I had to do a global reset/re-pair after getting the RC10a update recently.

The problem is so weird: It will RF from 25 ft away around a corner but will fall back to IR from only 8 ft away if the remote is pointed at certain angles, for example 45 degrees off of pointing right at the TiVo. Fortunately I get periods of many weeks when it stays RF.


----------



## JoeKustra

Try making IR impossible. I often wonder how many people never notice the IR mode switch. I only noticed when I blocked the front of my Roamio since I have a Premiere in close proximity. It's on channel 2 and has its own remote.


----------



## dlfl

JoeKustra said:


> Try making IR impossible. I often wonder how many people never notice the IR mode switch. I only noticed when I blocked the front of my Roamio since I have a Premiere in close proximity. It's on channel 2 and has its own remote.


Wonder what could explain this? How could the remote know you have the TIVo IR receiver blocked? I assume it receives RF signals back from the TiVo but that doesn't lead me to any idea of how to explain this behavior.


----------



## JoeKustra

dlfl said:


> Wonder what could explain this? How could the remote know you have the TIVo IR receiver blocked? I assume it receives RF signals back from the TiVo but that doesn't lead me to any idea of how to explain this behavior.


I have no clue. I only saw this behavior by accident. It doesn't have to be your hand either. Maybe the reduction of the RF signal level has some affect. If so, I'm going to try to add some rf blockage to my wooden block.


----------



## RSCHOON

I've had this same exact behaviour since day one of owning my Roamio...yet another issue that TiVo has never and will never address.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeKustra

RSCHOON said:


> I've had this same exact behaviour since day one of owning my Roamio...yet another issue that TiVo has never and will never address.


I just placed a dual foil backed foam insulation in front of my basic Roamio, behind the 1/4" piece of wood already there. RF still works. When if fails I'll leave a post.


----------



## RSCHOON

JoeKustra said:


> I just placed a dual foil backed foam insulation in front of my basic Roamio, behind the 1/4" piece of wood already there. RF still works. When if fails I'll leave a post.


I don't think that will work for me, I need IR to control my TV and RF to control my TiVo behind the wall.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


----------



## JoeKustra

RSCHOON said:


> I don't think that will work for me, I need IR to control my TV and RF to control my TiVo behind the wall.
> 
> Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk


So do I. I never suggested to permanently block the remote. I just noticed when I covered the front with my hand the LED went back to amber. Could it be a coincidence? Perhaps. I'm testing an RF proof block in front of the Roamio. So far it's working. My Roamio is only 10' from my remote, so maybe the RF signal is too strong. And I have nothing better to do today. It's raining. 

Just measured: it's only 6' from the Roamio.


----------



## JoeKustra

Before I let this thread go back to low priority, I need to add new information.

If you bring up the guide, then hit right, you can watch the remote's LED. Just before it drops from RF to IR, the color goes sort of half red and half amber. If you stop there and wait a few seconds, it stays amber and in RF mode. Hit right quickly and the LED goes red. Put your hand over the front of the remote and it will drop back to RF. Four levels of shielding reduce the issue, but don't stop it. Ok, back to sleep.


----------



## GTrotter4

I'm experiencing the same RF dropouts and I think it's interference with my cell phone. When I move my iPhone at least 6 feet away the dropouts go away.


----------



## dougdingle

The remote system is quite subject to outside interference. On my setup, moving an 8x1 Netgear switch (metal case, but perforated) away from both a Roamio and a Mini cleared up much of the remote issues. Not all, but mostly.


----------



## Time_Lord

I truly do not believe it is an RF interference problem but rather a software (or even a hardware issue). The reason I say this is because when the RF failure occurs you'll see the RED LED light, if you point the remote at the Roamio for at least a single IR command the remote will return to RF mode for a period of time.

If this was an RF interference issue the falling out and returning to RF mode would not be so clean cut and issuing a single IR command would not return it to RF mode.

Another example, I had two Roamios and RF mode was working perfectly but for reasons I won't go into swapped the positions of the units (upstairs to downstairs) but did not move the remotes with the units, I didn't want to reprogram them to the TV. after reprogramming the remote to the "new" TiVO I was never able to achieve reliable RF mode again. If there was RF interference it would have shown up before moving the TiVOs as nothing else changed.

-TL


----------



## JoeKustra

Time_Lord said:


> If this was an RF interference issue the falling out and returning to RF mode would not be so clean cut and issuing a single IR command would not return it to RF mode.
> -TL


My clean cut fix. When it drops to IR mode (and does not work on my Roamio), I cover the front and repeat the command twice. On the second try it always goes back to RF mode. Perhaps this is a variation on your fix.

My Roamio is immune to IR, so I can't miss the changeover.


----------



## SammyJaye

Well, this is disheartening. The OP posted in 2013 and here it is 2017 and the problem still exists. Roamio purchased on sale in 2015 but just now pulled out for use after end of Dish contract. Completely unreliable operation with the remote randomly transmitting in RF and then IR at its whim. Dish Hopper RF remotes perfect since 2013, what have I given up??? Had Series 1 and 2 TiVos and thought I was coming back home after 17 years (Sony Series 1 from 2000). I've tried everything suggested in the 7 pages of this topic to no avail. Has anyone who actually had this problem SOLVED the problem 100%? A remote that works even 95% of the time is garbage (and mine is no better than 50%, seemingly worst when you're FF and can't stop it!). Dish, I may be back sooner than I imagined.


----------



## dougdingle

In order to solve a problem, first you have to admit it exists. TiVo has _*never *_admitted there was _*any *_issue with the Roamio remote setup.

If you check the support pages, the implication is that the end user is an idiot and it's their fault. The advice is always the same - reset your remote, try again.

It's kind of like the complaints about the Roamio reverting to PCM audio out overnight when Dolby Digital was selected. They repeatedly (and quite vehemently) denied the problem existed, both in email and phone support with me. Then they fixed it, months and months later, sending me an email after it was done and admitting the problem.


----------



## aaronwt

Time_Lord said:


> I truly do not believe it is an RF interference problem but rather a software (or even a hardware issue). The reason I say this is because when the RF failure occurs you'll see the RED LED light, if you point the remote at the Roamio for at least a single IR command the remote will return to RF mode for a period of time.
> 
> If this was an RF interference issue the falling out and returning to RF mode would not be so clean cut and issuing a single IR command would not return it to RF mode.
> 
> Another example, I had two Roamios and RF mode was working perfectly but for reasons I won't go into swapped the positions of the units (upstairs to downstairs) but did not move the remotes with the units, I didn't want to reprogram them to the TV. after reprogramming the remote to the "new" TiVO I was never able to achieve reliable RF mode again. If there was RF interference it would have shown up before moving the TiVOs as nothing else changed.
> 
> -TL


But if it was a software or hardware problem, wouldn't it affect most people? I've owned seven Bolts now(five 2015 and two 2017) and four Roamios, and none of them have ever had any issues with RF remotes. I could get a signal to the Bolt or Roamios from the other end of my Condo without any issues.

And I also have over six dozen wireless devices, between Zwave, Smarthings, WiFi etc, sending RF around my condo.


----------



## ford perf

This just started happening to my Roamio remote. It was RF forever and now I noticed the remote buttons werent always registering. Then I looked at the remote light and its amber amber amber red red red red amber amber amber etc. Anyone find a solution yet?

EDIT: i reset the remote and re-paired it


----------



## dlfl

ford perf said:


> This just started happening to my Roamio remote. It was RF forever and now I noticed the remote buttons werent always registering. Then I looked at the remote light and its amber amber amber red red red red amber amber amber etc. Anyone find a solution yet?
> 
> EDIT: i reset the remote and re-paired it


And you checked or replaced the batteries? Other than global reset, re-pairing and batteries, I'm not aware of any solutions. In my case I have to do a global reset now and then, and almost always after the TiVo has been restarted.


----------



## pagefault

Can anyone confirm that it's fixed in 20.7.2?

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information
"*Issue 448462:* RF may fail with TiVo and S5 remotes"


----------



## JoeKustra

pagefault said:


> Can anyone confirm that it's fixed in 20.7.2?
> 
> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information
> "*Issue 448462:* RF may fail with TiVo and S5 remotes"


No effects with my Roamio with RC22. I'll update when it gets RC24.


----------



## dlfl

pagefault said:


> Can anyone confirm that it's fixed in 20.7.2?
> 
> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information
> "*Issue 448462:* RF may fail with TiVo and S5 remotes"


That obscure description might give you hope if there was only one failure mode but there are probably several.


----------



## Paw Paw

I recently obtained a bolt and was having the same problem with the remote not staying in RF mode. After researching it in the web and studying the situation I realized that my Samsung TV that is right next to the Bolt was wirelessly connected to the web. I hard wired the TV and turned off its Wi-Fi function and now the remote stays in RF mode. However now the remote is making multiple entries in RF mode so I am not done troubleshooting the problem. Very disappointed with the situation after having several Series 3's and never having any problems like this.


----------



## psywzrd

I know I'm reviving an old thread here, but I'm having issues controlling my Roamio Pro and my Minis with my remotes in RF mode. I would say that for the most part they function just fine (maybe 75% of the time), but that other 25% is troublesome. I notice that when my Tivos don't respond it appears to be because the remote is sending commands in IR mode (red light). These instances happen at the worst times of course, like when I am fast-forwarding through commercials and I press play to start watching my shows again. This is obviously maddening, especially when you're watching sports or something else where you don't want to spoil anything that you're watching.

I called Tivo about this yesterday and all they had me do was perform global resets of my remotes. That did not seem to help at all. My Roamio Pro is kept in a wood cabinet and my one Mini is kept behind a wall-mounted TV, and I do not want to move them just so I can have line of sight (the wife wouldn't approve and, quite honestly, neither would I). My 2nd Mini is in my son's bedroom and that one is exposed, so line of sight isn't an issue there.

Anyway, any suggestions here? I'm assuming there isn't any type of Tivo remote that is "RF-only", but is there a replacement/universal remote that you guys suggest that works well? I do have Harmony Ones but I believe those are IR-only so those won't work. This is very frustrating, and you would think it would be an easy problem to solve. My mins are the v2 (93000) version if that makes a difference. I believe those are the ones that are supposed to work just fine in RF mode though. Thanks in advance.


----------



## aaronwt

Have you tried replacing the batteries?

Sent from my Tab A 8.0


----------



## JoeKustra

psywzrd said:


> I know I'm reviving an old thread here, but I'm having issues controlling my Roamio Pro and my Minis with my remotes in RF mode.


It may be an old thread, but nothing has changed. There is RF noise blocking communication. Next time it happens, put the remote lower or higher and it will jump back to RF mode.

Also, System Information displays the battery level in RF mode. If, in RF mode, it says N/A then hit the TiVo +"D" quickly and the battery level should display.


----------



## psywzrd

aaronwt said:


> Have you tried replacing the batteries?
> 
> Sent from my Tab A 8.0


Sure have - numerous times. Fresh batteries or not, same issue.


----------



## psywzrd

JoeKustra said:


> It may be an old thread, but nothing has changed. There is RF noise blocking communication. Next time it happens, put the remote lower or higher and it will jump back to RF mode.
> 
> Also, System Information displays the battery level in RF mode. If, in RF mode, it says N/A the hit the TiVo +"D" quickly and the battery level should then display.


It's not like it jumps into IR mode and then won't go back to RF. It's just that it seems to randomly send out commands in IR mode during normal use. Like if I hit FF three times, ones of those command might go out in IR mode so it only registers two presses. It's so frustrating.


----------



## aaronwt

I don't understand why some people have this issue. At my place all my TiVo remotes use RF. And I have dozens of devices using RF too. As well as five Access Points(with 2.4 and 5ghz) in use. But my 60+ wireless devices I have don't interfere with my TiVo remotes or any of my other RF remotes.

Sent from my Nexus 7(32GB)


----------



## dougdingle

I also have this issue with one of my remotes (the one talking to my Roamio). 

It is annoying beyond belief. I've tried resetting, re-pairing, swapping remotes from another room, nothing works. The remote spends 80% of its time in IR mode. The other three, talking to Minis, stay in RF mode full time. There's something in the area with the Roamio that causes the RF to stop working, and the remote switches to IR, and I have no idea what it is. For a while I thought it was the old light dimmers I had in the room (when I swapped them out, the remote actually worked consistently in RF mode for a few days), but eventually, the problem returned.

It really lessens the TiVo experience.


----------



## 53richart

dougdingle said:


> There's something in the area with the Roamio that causes the RF to stop working, and the remote switches to IR, and I have no idea what it is.


Lots of things can cause RF interference. Some that I have seen interfering with ham radio reception are LED light bulbs, under cabinet kitchen lamps (the power supply was the culprit), laptop power supplies, 'wall wart' power supplies, phone chargers, LED dusk-to-dawn or motion activated floodlights, touch activated lamps, electric fences, gardening grow lights, faulty doorbell transformers, electric heating pads and faulty ballasts in fluorescent lights. These same types of RF emitters have the potential to interfere with an RF remote.


----------



## dougdingle

53richart said:


> Lots of things can cause RF interference. Some that I have seen interfering with ham radio reception are LED light bulbs, under cabinet kitchen lamps (the power supply was the culprit), laptop power supplies, 'wall wart' power supplies, phone chargers, LED dusk-to-dawn or motion activated floodlights, touch activated lamps, electric fences, gardening grow lights, faulty doorbell transformers, electric heating pads and faulty ballasts in fluorescent lights. These same types of RF emitters have the potential to interfere with an RF remote.


I'm pretty familiar with RF interference. The interesting thing is, this TiVo remote problem has been going on literally for years. A few weeks ago, I bougth an AppleTV4K streamer that also uses an RF remote, and it worked and continues to work perfectly.


----------



## psywzrd

Does TiVo not make a remote that is RF only? If not, is there another remote (Harmony, etc) that I can buy that will work? Or does the problem lie with the Roamio and the Minis themselves and not the remotes? Logically you would think the problem is the remote because that is what is sending the commands - the receivers are just, well, receiving whatever commands are sent to them. Whatever it is, I agree with what others have posted here about other devices not having this issue with RF signals. This seems to be a TiVo-only issue, which is maddening since that’s the device I use probably at least 90% of the time.


----------



## JoeKustra

psywzrd said:


> This seems to be a TiVo-only issue, which is maddening since that's the device I use probably at least 90% of the time.


I agree. Also, remember that the remote (in RF mode) is expecting a response from the TiVo. No response and it drops to IR mode. That complicates things.


----------



## dougdingle

psywzrd said:


> Does TiVo not make a remote that is RF only? If not, is there another remote (Harmony, etc) that I can buy that will work? Or does the problem lie with the Roamio and the Minis themselves and not the remotes? Logically you would think the problem is the remote because that is what is sending the commands - the receivers are just, well, receiving whatever commands are sent to them. Whatever it is, I agree with what others have posted here about other devices not having this issue with RF signals. This seems to be a TiVo-only issue, which is maddening since that's the device I use probably at least 90% of the time.


No RF-only remote available AFAIK.

No aftermarket remotes that work with it in RF mode. As JoeKustra said, there is a request/response sequence that is in play between the remote and the TiVo - the communication is not open ended. The problem may not actually be the remote, it could just as well be the Roamio's response or more specifically, the lack of it which makes the remote go into IR mode.

This has been a problem from, essentially, the day the Roamio shipped. And it's always been wildly annoying.


----------

