# 1883 *spoilers*



## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Prequel to Yellowstone. First episode was excellent. On paramount plus. Strong cast


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I really loved the first 2 episodes.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Watched them both and thought it was done extremely well. Looking forward to the rest of the series.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Spoiler



Billy Bob. Dang.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

i enjoyed it. I’ve always liked Sam Elliot. Good start.


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## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

Amazon Channels has an offer of Paramount+ Premium for $0.99/mo for up to 2 months (cancel any time) expiring Jan 3. From what I can tell, 1883's final season episode airs Feb 27. Non-subscribers can do the math.


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## tigercat74 (Aug 7, 2004)

humbb said:


> Amazon Channels has an offer of Paramount+ Premium for $0.99/mo for up to 2 months (cancel any time) expiring Jan 3. From what I can tell, 1183's final season episode airs Feb 27. Non-subscribers can do the math.


It was my understanding there would be no math.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

tigercat74 said:


> It was my understanding there would be no math.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

humbb said:


> Amazon Channels has an offer of Paramount+ Premium for $0.99/mo for up to 2 months (cancel any time) expiring Jan 3. From what I can tell, 1883's final season episode airs Feb 27. Non-subscribers can do the math.


I bought this the Monday after black Friday and rvery time I selected a program I was asked to pay extra even though Paramount+ anc Amc+ both appeared as paid.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

this is my favorite new show of 2021 !
and I watch tons of new shows on every platform


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

i watched ep1, almost didn't make it through, and couldn't convince my sis to watch ep2 with me over xmas, so i'll watch it alone now i'm back home.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

One of so few shows I can watch with wife. Hard to take at times but worthwhile. Glad to have it now that Joe Pickett is done.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Jon J said:


> I bought this the Monday after black Friday and rvery time I selected a program I was asked to pay extra even though Paramount+ anc Amc+ both appeared as paid.


This happens to me every so often with shows I have purchased on Prime or have bought the primary channel on Prime. So far it has always corrected itself after a day or two.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

dare I say this show is better than Season 4 of Yellowstone ?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Episode 4 pushed to next week. Bummer.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

Off to a good start. I hope the 6666 spinoff will be good as well.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm not into westerns. Especially those set in modern day. And why I gave this a shot. Watched the 1st episode and enjoyed enough to continue. McGraw and Hill have a great chemistry  and are pretty good actors. But the real standout here is Isabel May who plays their daughter. Whom I've never heard or seen before. She is quite the find.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

if this is McGraw and Hill's first acting jobs I'm shocked at how good they are


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

gossamer88 said:


> I'm not into westerns. Especially those set in modern day. And why I gave this a shot. Watched the 1st episode and enjoyed enough to continue. McGraw and Hill have a great chemistry  and are pretty good actors. But the real standout here is Isabel May who plays their daughter. Whom I've never heard or seen before. She is quite the find.


I told my wife she keeps reminding me of Jennifer Lawrence. I then googled both names together and what do you know Taylor thinks the same thing thing.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

zalusky said:


> I told my wife she keeps reminding me of Jennifer Lawrence. I then googled both names together and what do you know Taylor thinks the same thing thing.


HA! I too felt she could play her slightly younger sister.


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## dwells (Nov 3, 2001)

tivoknucklehead said:


> if this is McGraw and Hill's first acting jobs I'm shocked at how good they are


McGraw has several acting credits, the one that is most notable is probably the movie "The Blind Side"


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gossamer88 said:


> I'm not into westerns. Especially those set in modern day. And why I gave this a shot. Watched the 1st episode and enjoyed enough to continue. McGraw and Hill have a great chemistry  and are pretty good actors. But the real standout here is *Isabel May* who plays their daughter. Whom I've never heard or seen before. She is quite the find.


I recognized her from Young Sheldon; she portrayed Sheldon's brother's girlfriend.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Enjoying, but couldn't make Faith any uglier.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

The makeup department definitely does a good job of making her and him look road weary and sun cooked.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

this show has done the amazing job of cracking the top 10 of the Nielsens along with Yellowstone which is unheard of for cable network shows
1883 is a really good show


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

Both are really well done shows and I hope 6666 will be as well.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

14th highest rated tv show of all time at imdb.com, 17000 reviews 9.1 out of 10


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Mike Lang said:


> Both are really well done shows and I hope 6666 will be as well.


Won't they be referring to that as "Four Sixes" instead of "6-6-6-6"? I thought someone in "Yellowstone" referred to it as that.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

Bierboy said:


> Won't they be referring to that as "Four Sixes" instead of "6-6-6-6"? I thought someone in "Yellowstone" referred to it as that.


They can call it whatever they want as long as it rises to the level of the others.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> Won't they be referring to that as "Four Sixes" instead of "6-6-6-6"? I thought someone in "Yellowstone" referred to it as that.


Yes, it's the Four Sixes. The creator Taylor Sheridan actually bought the Four Sixes ranch.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

We should add spoiler to the thread so we can discussed freely. Especially this last episode.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

done


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

OK cool. 

The minute Elsa and Ennis become intimate, they were doomed. And even though I saw it it coming it still got to me. At first I was a little leary about Ennis but then he won me as well as Elsa over 

BTW the actor who played Ennis could play Kurt Cobain if they ever do a biopic.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

gossamer88 said:


> OK cool.
> 
> The minute Elsa and Ennis become intimate, they were doomed. And even though I saw it it coming it still got to me. At first I was a little leary about Ennis but then he won me as well as Elsa over
> 
> BTW the actor who played Ennis could play Kurt Cobain if they ever do a biopic.


To be fair, everyone but Elsa was already dead or dying as of the first episode. And Elsa has an arrow through her gut.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> To be fair, everyone but Elsa was already dead or dying as of the first episode. And Elsa has an arrow through her gut.


Her brother has some of the best plot armor in the entire history of entertainment though


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

zordude said:


> Her brother has some of the best plot armor in the entire history of entertainment though


Are we sure he continues the bloodline of the Duttons or can Elsa be pregnant?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Allanon said:


> Are we sure he continues the bloodline of the Duttons or can Elsa be pregnant?


My thinking its Elsa and the child will be John Duttons Grandfather. The show clearly revolves around her.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Allanon said:


> Are we sure he continues the bloodline of the Duttons or can Elsa be pregnant?


We are not sure at all, but I'm not sure how much propagation of the family name there was through women in the 1800s.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

zordude said:


> We are not sure at all, but I'm not sure how much propagation of the family name there was through women in the 1800s.


Elsa and Ennis were not married, and Elsa might not even know his last name; he doesn't have one in the credits. Dutton might be the only surname available.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Wow today’s episode was the best yet. What a great series this is!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I’m still watching, but except for how quickly Elsa recovered from mourning and started flirting with the new guy (with the same line with Ennis), this show is just going sloooowwww. Not sure if I can continue with it.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Its a scenery show. Enjoying but IMHO the writers are writing what they want rather than being accurate to the period.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

DouglasPHill said:


> Its a scenery show. Enjoying but IMHO the writers are writing what they want rather than being accurate to the period.


Yeah, they probably didn't have tornados in 1883.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

I wondered when Sheridan would pop in. That fake beard was ridiculous!


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Mike Lang said:


> I wondered when Sheridan would pop in. That fake beard was ridiculous!


I thought that was the Twitter guy.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Tony_T said:


> I’m still watching, but except for how quickly Elsa recovered from mourning and started flirting with the new guy (with the same line with Ennis), this show is just going sloooowwww. Not sure if I can continue with it.


Perhaps you didn't notice they are in Colorado now; they have traveled at a walking pace from Texas. She's had some time to recover.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> Perhaps you didn't notice they are in Colorado now; they have traveled at a walking pace from Texas. She's had some time to recover.


I thought they were in the Oklahoma Territories. They haven't reached Dodge City yet I don't think.








'1883' Fan Discovers the Shockingly Small Distance the Wagons Have Traveled So Far


'1883' fans are shocked that the wagon train hasn't traveled farther, but is it really realistic to the time to do an Oregon Trail speed run?




outsider.com






> Another “1883” viewer had predictions about where the wagon train was going. They wrote, “Looks like they’ll turn north at or around Abilene and follow the Great Western Cattle Trail through Indian Territory (what later became Oklahoma) to Dodge City, Kansas, then go further north from there into Nebraska and turn left along the Oregon Trail into Wyoming, where the Duttons will split up from the wagon train and head north into Montana, while the wagon train will continue west along the Oregon Trail through the Rockies into Oregon.”


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

ej42137 said:


> Perhaps you didn't notice they are in Colorado now; they have traveled at a walking pace from Texas. She's had some time to recover.


Didn’t notice, thanks. It looked like the “mourning“ ended in one day. Admittedly, I wasn’t really paying 100% attention to this episode.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> Didn’t notice, thanks. It looked like the “mourning“ ended in one day. Admittedly, I wasn’t really paying 100% attention to this episode.


They just crossed the Red River into Oklahoma in Episode 6. They are heading towards Kansas now.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Dutton Family Tree

I am spoilerizing because it might give away a small Yellowstone spoiler...



Spoiler


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

I want to see Elsa be a progenitor cognate for Monica!


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

Deleted duplicate post


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I binged seven episodes yesterday. Would have binged eight if the eighth had been available. This is a really good show and the acting is great. It intrigues me how it shows how incredibly difficult and dangerous the western migration was. These people are essentially walking across half of America's most dangerous parts. I also like the fact that they're showing that Native Americans weren't the only group of people preying on them on their way unlike 100 years of Hollywood.

Isabel May (Elsa) is very photogenic.

A couple of tiny nitpicks:
It seemed like the Captain had them cross the Bravos river at high tide. He stated that the water level was higher than it had been at night. I know they were under time constraints but why not wait until the water level is lower and less dangerous?

I was also somewhat surprised that Elsa's mother didn't warn her about the dangers of getting pregnant on the trail. That could have easily become a death sentence for Elsa and her unborn baby.

Apparently, there's a train to Oregon. Why not take that instead of facing the dangers of a 1,000 mile trek on foot and stagecoach?


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

cheesesteak said:


> I binged seven episodes yesterday. Would have binged eight if the eighth had been available. This is a really good show and the acting is great. It intrigues me how it shows how incredibly difficult and dangerous the western migration was. These people are essentially walking across half of America's most dangerous parts. I also like the fact that they're showing that Native Americans weren't the only group of people preying on them on their way unlike 100 years of Hollywood.
> 
> Isabel May (Elsa) is very photogenic.
> 
> ...


I believe she did address part of the dangers anyway. She made a point of asking her and getting her to acknowledge that she was quote unquote a woman now. I think the dangers were inferred with that discussion.

They also discussed the train verse wagon trail situation and it all came down to cost. The immigrants did not have the coin to take the train to Oregon so they had to take the wagon trail. The senior Dutton took a wagon from Tennessee to Texas to bring horses and supplies and to have space for the things that were on the train with his family.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Oregon was the territory that had "Black Exclusion Laws" that banned free black people from living in Oregon. I assume things will get "interesting" for Thomas and probably his new girlfriend once they reach Oregon.









Jun. 26, 1844 | Oregon Territory Bans Free Black People


Learn more about our history of racial injustice.




calendar.eji.org


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

cheesesteak said:


> A couple of tiny nitpicks:
> It seemed like the Captain had them cross the Bravos river at high tide. He stated that the water level was higher than it had been at night. I know they were under time constraints but why not wait until the water level is lower and less dangerous?


"High tide?" Is that a joke that went over my head, or do you just not know what a tide is?

It was rising due to a storm, and if they waited it would be even higher. Or at least that's what Brennan said.


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Oregon was the territory that had "Black Exclusion Laws" that banned free black people from living in Oregon. I assume things will get "interesting" for Thomas and probably his new girlfriend once they reach Oregon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It was like that when it became a state, and those laws stayed on the books for over 100 years. Enforcement was hit or miss, depending solely on the mood of the local white people at any place and time. There is still a large number of white supremist in the north west.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> "High tide?" Is that a joke that went over my head, or do you just not know what a tide is?
> 
> It was rising due to a storm, and if they waited it would be even higher. Or at least that's what Brennan said.


Maybe I don't. I thought the moon affected the surface level all bodies of water on the planet.

I thought it was funny that when the tornado hit nobody lost their hats.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

cheesesteak said:


> Maybe I don't. I thought the moon affected the surface level all bodies of water on the planet.
> 
> I thought it was funny that when the tornado hit nobody lost their hats.


It does, but interior tributary rivers in northern Texas not so much. The larger the body of water the larger the effect. An ocean will rise and flow up the river to a point but I don't think the affects would reach that far. If they do they would be minimal.

Edit: Even the Great Lakes are considered non-tidal.








Do the Great Lakes have tides?


Water levels in the Great Lakes change because of weather effects, not tides.




oceanservice.noaa.gov






> True tides—changes in water level caused by the gravitational forces of the sun and moon—do occur in a semi-diurnal (twice daily) pattern on the Great Lakes. Studies indicate that the Great Lakes spring tide, the largest tides caused by the combined forces of the sun and moon, is less than five centimeters in height. These minor variations are masked by the greater fluctuations in lake levels produced by wind and barometric pressure changes.
> Consequently, the Great Lakes are considered to be non-tidal.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Now we know how Elsa got shot. I really hope she doesn’t die, she is a huge contribution to the show


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

She carries the show but I hope they don’t save her life in some silly way considering we’re still 50 years before penicillin.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Mike Lang said:


> She carries the show but I hope they don’t save her life in some silly way considering we’re still 50 years before penicillin.


I think she'll survive until somewhere in Western Montana.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Was anyone else confused by the mountains behind them in some scenes with them appearing to be heading away from them.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Last I recall the group had just entered Oklahoma crossing the river. Did they skip Kansas, Nebraska and Denver or did I miss something?


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

dwatt said:


> Last I recall the group had just entered Oklahoma crossing the river. Did they skip Kansas, Nebraska and Denver or did I miss something?


they did talk in a previous episode about possibly diverting to Denver which they decided not to do

i saw this when asking the same question


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Mike Lang said:


> She carries the show but I hope they don’t save her life in some silly way considering we’re still 50 years before penicillin.


James said that they will stay were they bury her, so she‘ll survive until Wyoming, where “1883“ will end.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Tony_T said:


> James said that they will stay were they bury her, so she‘ll survive until Wyoming, where “1883“ will end.


The yellow stone ranch is in Montana not Wyoming. The fort they are not going to go to is in Wyoming so chances are they are already in that state.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Yes, they’re already in Wyoming (the thieves who murdered the Indians said they were marshals of Wyoming (to which Shea said that Wyoming isn’t a state yet))


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I think there are only 10 episodes this season, so I'm assuming Elsa will die next week, and we'll be at the location of the Yellowstone Ranch in southwest Montana.
Next season will probably centered around getting the house built, the ranch up and running, and John Sr growing up.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Yellowstone already has supernatural elements, so I would be completely happy with Elsa continuing the series as the omnicient narrator with occasional appearances as a beneficent ghost.


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

Ghost with benefits!


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## gschrock (Dec 28, 2001)

I'd be a little disappointed if we don't ultimately see at some point (obviously not necessarily this season) whether these settlers make it to Oregon or not. Although the casualty rate has been quite impressive. I did a little digging trying to get an idea of what the casualty rate was for trips like this, and from what I can tell, this group is very much on the high side. Biggest killers were obviously disease of some sort, or just general sanitation type issues. (And yes, I can remember playing the much older, text only version of the Oregon trail game, where you always seemed to die of dysentery.)

One other thing that kinda struck me during one of the recent episodes was seeing the very well worn rutted path from prior travelers. It kinda struck me as odd that it'd be that noticeable, because you'd have thought things would have been spread out a little more, and also that there just wouldn't have been enough traffic, but then, at the same time, I'm pretty sure there's still a few places where you can still to this day see signs of the rutted path that they took back then.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I sort of don't think we will see Oregon since the show is about the Duttons. I could see Sam Elliott and Germans wave goodbye at the end of the next episode and season 2 be all about the beginnings of the ranch.
It is also possible they all could stay in Montana since there is really is not much left of the original group.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

This is one of the very few works of fiction where a character's (probable) death is really going to bum me out. I've never watched Yellowstone and maybe never will. Elsa is my primary attachment to this story's universe.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Well, actually, this is a western and they decided to tie it to Yellowstone in the hopes of bringing in that audience. Outside of the names, its not really Yellowstone.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

tivoknucklehead said:


> Now we know how Elsa got shot. I really hope she doesn’t die, she is a huge contribution to the show


Here's my take: If Ned Stark can be killed in season one, nobody's safe


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

…or BlackGuard at the beginning of The Suicide Squad 😁


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I looked up the family tree and interesting how Elsa has no lineage


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

If Elsa is dead then I wonder how she's narrating these episodes. It'd be easier to understand if we ever saw her keeping a journal.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Maybe there is an early edition Edison Phonograph in the back of the covered wagon? It was invented in 1877.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

She hasn’t died yet. Next episode.


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> I looked up the family tree and interesting how Elsa has no lineage


That's outdated. Garrett Randall is deceased.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rainy Dave said:


> That's outdated. Garrett Randall is deceased.


I've never watched Yellowstone...thanks for the spoiler LOL


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

gossamer88 said:


> I've never watched Yellowstone...thanks for the spoiler LOL


Hopefully you have already watched Game of Thrones and Suicide Squad.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

dwatt said:


> Hopefully you have already watched Game of Thrones and Suicide Squad.


I did and why I did not call those out.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I have a feeling that Elsa survives but the arrow to the gut damaged her ovaries so she is unable to bear children. That would explain why she has no offspring in the family tree. Interesting that her Indian husband is not shown, although any spouses do not appear to be shown in the tree, only direct blood relatives. Then again, Jamie was adopted so by that rule he should not be in the family tree. Who else will they have to narrate the show if Elsa dies?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

If she survived, the name of the sequel would be “Oregon” 😁
(Dutton said ”We‘ll settle where she dies”, and with 1 ep left, and close to Montana, no way she lives past the finale)
Will there be a 2nd season? If so, there could be a time jump, and the son could narrate.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Tony_T said:


> If she survived, the name of the sequel would be “Oregon” 😁
> (Dutton said ”We‘ll settle where she dies”, and with 1 ep left, and close to Montana, no way she lives past the finale)
> Will there be a 2nd season? If so, there could be a time jump, and the son could narrate.



additional episodes have been ordered so next week will definitely not be the end of the show


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Good to hear that the show will continue.
I wonder if the name will change (i.e. 1893) >Guess not, New show 1932 in addition to 1883:
“_ViacomCBS (soon to be renamed Paramount) has announced another Sheridan-led series, 1932, which will tell the tale of the Dutton’s during the prohibition _years.”








1883 Renewed for Second Season


1883 will return.




screenrant.com


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## Rainy Dave (Nov 11, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> I've never watched Yellowstone...thanks for the spoiler LOL


Sorry.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I've never watched Yellowstone and maybe never will.


It really is a worthwhile and compelling series... As others have said, besides the reference to the Dutton surname, there isn't a lot that the shows have in common...

Nevertheless... I think Yellowstone is one of the best series on television... I don't subscribe to a cable or cable-like service, so I am eagerly awaiting the latest season to come to a streaming service!!!


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> If Elsa is dead then I wonder how she's narrating these episodes. It'd be easier to understand if we ever saw her keeping a journal.


That's exactly what I was thinking and was about to post it.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Howie said:


> That's exactly what I was thinking and was about to post it.


I've always felt like it is an identical story telling technique as when you are reading a book told from a 1st person POV... We are hearing her inner thoughts in realtime...

And as she is dying and approaching the darkness of death, I assume that we'll hear her thoughts and experiences with an eventual silence to her narration...


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

That would be so lame...


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

MikeekiM said:


> I've always felt like it is an identical story telling technique as when you are reading a book told from a 1st person POV... We are hearing her inner thoughts in realtime...


This is clearly the case here.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Her inner thoughts seem to me to be about things that have already happened, and not in realtime.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Howie said:


> Her inner thoughts seem to me to be about things that have already happened, and not in realtime.


I haven't noticed that... Interesting... Is she narrating in the past tense as though this story took place long ago? (e.g., "I met my husband 4 months prior to our arrival at the ranch...")

Or is she narrating using references to near-realtime occurrences (e.g., "I went to the market today and rode my horse. The ride was a rough one and I discovered that she had hurt one of her legs this morning.")


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Loved the way the various Indians spoke perfect English, better than some of the main characters. It would have been a hoot were various warriors speaking with British or French or Mexican accents. 
"I say, old chap, it simply is not done to drive wagons through our sacred territory."
"Si, señor you can't cross the Baja with that wagon." 
"Badges? We doan need no steenkin' badges!"
OK bad idea. Too distracting. Forget it.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

cheesesteak said:


> If Elsa is dead then I wonder how she's narrating these episodes. It'd be easier to understand if we ever saw her keeping a journal.


You need to watch the classic film "Sunset Boulevard"...


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

cheesesteak said:


> If Elsa is dead then I wonder how she's narrating these episodes. It'd be easier to understand if we ever saw her keeping a journal.


Please refer to post #70 for what I'm hoping is the explanation. 

But in truth no explanation is needed, a dead narrator is an accepted literary device.



dwatt said:


> Maybe there is an early edition Edison Phonograph in the back of the covered wagon? It was invented in 1877.


An Edison phonograph is an output only device, Elsa would not have been able to record her voice-over on it. Edison's recording equipment would not have fit in a Conestoga wagon, and the Dutton family certainly could not have afforded one.

Come to that, my family has an Edison cylinder player; the sound quality is distinctive because (among other things) it does not reproduce the complete range of frequencies. Elsa's voice-over does not have that quality.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

Thank you for the great info, Mr. Literal.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

dwatt said:


> Thank you for the great info, Mr. Literal.


That's Lt. Commander Literal to you, bub!


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Folks complaining that her recovery from infection, though farfetched can and did occasionally against the odds happen, fail to mention our heroes repeatedly riding into gunfights outnumbered and always surviving. That's fantasy. Not that I don't enjoy it.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

S1 finale didn't air yet, so she hasn't yet recovered from infection.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

philw1776 said:


> Folks complaining that her recovery from infection, though farfetched can and did occasionally against the odds happen, fail to mention our heroes repeatedly riding into gunfights outnumbered and always surviving. That's fantasy. Not that I don't enjoy it.


It's not just that being gut-shot with a dirty arrow was a death sentence, we have been told by Elsa speaking as the omniscient narrator that she is going to die. For her to survive would be a serious betrayal of trust with the audience because there has been no hint that she can be unreliable when speaking voice-over.

Also, her branch of the Dutton tree end with her. With all the fraternization she has been committing along the trail, the only way to stop her from reproducing is to kill her off!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

If someone could provide a situation where the Dutton’s do not stay in Montana (“We’ll settle where we bury her”) and continue to their destination of Oregon then there is a chance Elsa survives the infection tonight.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

Even Kicking Bird couldn't sweat the infection out of her. I assume they'll have to shift focus to John at some point.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

Just watched the finale. Devastating . 
cant wait for season 2 to see where it goes


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Good finale, didn’t think what happened at the beach was a necessary end for that character though. 
At least some of the immigrants made it to Oregon. 
i suspect that they’ll be a further time jump in season 2 with the son the narrator.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Well they definitely pruned out all the peripherals. I had hoped for somebody besides the Duttons to stay but that was fore not.

Just like this thread it was crazy to see all the click bait stuff in youtube saying the Indians will save her and that it was really her uterus that was pierced …

As much as I will miss her props to Sheridan for not doing a Hollywood ending and his great dialog.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Tony_T said:


> Good finale, didn’t think what happened at the beach was a necessary end for that character though.


It was a call-back to Sam Elliot's role in 1976's "Lifeguard".


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

Where did one-legged German widower end up?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Guy Fleegman said:


> Where did one-legged German widower end up?


Oregon.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

That was sad. I hope there are some awards or at least nominations in store for Isabel May.

One thing that (minorly) bugged me about Elsa was that she was a crappy big sister to her little brother. She spent very little time with him. The writers could have done a better job with that.

I didn't understand why they thought that the evil land owner's cowboys would come after them for killing the cowboys responsible for the Indian family massacre. Didn't they direct the Indian warriors to the bodies to be mutilated? Wouldn't any clues now point to the Indian warriors?

Did the few that made it to Oregon winter somewhere? I kinda wonder how James built a house in the middle of nowhere all by himself and his wife.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

cheesesteak said:


> That was sad. I hope there are some awards or at least nominations in store for Isabel May.
> 
> One thing that (minorly) bugged me about Elsa was that she was a crappy big sister to her little brother. She spent very little time with him. The writers could have done a better job with that.
> 
> ...


I don't recall them showing the wagon train with the wife and son meeting up with him where Elsa died. I thought that was odd. But maybe that will be a part of season 2 or the extended season 1. I would expect that they overwintered together building smaller reasonable shelter. Then the others took off for Oregon in the spring. This could be fleshed out in longer flashback sequences.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

dwatt said:


> I don't recall them showing the wagon train with the wife and son meeting up with him where Elsa died. I thought that was odd. But maybe that will be a part of season 2 or the extended season 1. I would expect that they overwintered together building smaller reasonable shelter. Then the others took off for Oregon in the spring. This could be fleshed out in longer flashback sequences.


I didn't understand why the mother had to stay behind. Dump the kid off with the Captain and the others for a week and both ride with Elsa to the valley. There were two other little boys there who he could have become friends with.


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## Guy Fleegman (12 mo ago)

Tony_T said:


> Oregon.


How do we know that? I don't remember anything on the screen for him except "One Year Later."


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

IMO, TV doesn’t have to give a caption, voiceover, or flashback to explain everything.
The German was traveling with Thomas and the woman, who we were told via caption that they made it to Oregon, so he did as well.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

tivoknucklehead said:


> cant wait for season 2 to see where it goes





Tony_T said:


> i suspect that they’ll be a further time jump in season 2 with the son the narrator.


While "additional episodes" have been ordered, they're not yet calling it a second season.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

While the words 'season 2' are not mentioned, "more from the hit series 1883" does sound like a season 2. I would expect that with a time-jump that the title would change, and maybe it will, but it even if it changed to 188(whatever), it would look to me as a 2nd season (there is also another prequel in the works — 1932)

_"Feb. 15, 2022 – Paramount+ today announced *more of its hit series* from Taylor Sheridan, *1883*, is planned for the service following a record-breaking performance that shattered the service’s record as the most-watched title ever globally. Additionally, the service has ordered 1932, the next chapter of the “Yellowstone” origin story. Produced by MTV Entertainment Studios and 101 Studios, 1932 will follow a new generation of Duttons during the time of western expansion, Prohibition and the Great Depression."_​




PARAMOUNT+ ORDERS MORE OF TAYLOR SHERIDAN’S “1883” AND ANNOUNCES PLANS FOR THE NEXT CHAPTER, “1932”







www.viacomcbspressexpress.com


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

They should leave 1883 alone as far as I'm concerned. I'll watch if there are some additional episodes for this season but frankly, the show's most interesting character died and the second most interesting character committed suicide on the beach in Oregon. This was a good stopping point for these characters' story.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Guy Fleegman said:


> How do we know that? I don't remember anything on the screen for him except "One Year Later."


Actually, it did say Oregon.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

ADG said:


> Actually, it did say Oregon.


When the episode cut from Elsa's death scene to Josef the German, it said "One year later". When it then cut to Thomas and Noemi, it said "Willamette Valley Oregon".


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

My guess is they might want to jump about 10 years making John Dutton II about 18 or so. The ranch would be in place and they could start to introduce love interests and such. I suppose they could have flashbacks to young John talking with Elsa reflecting on handling a related crisis on Tuesday nights because they rarely we able to be together on Sunday nights  in the style of "This is Us" but I don't think thats a Sheridan move.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

They also have the sign post scene that was included in a flashback on Yellowstone. The one where the Native American group came to burry one of their tribe. JD II looked to be about 14 and there was another son with them. I expect the burial to be for the Crow leader that directed him to that valley to settle.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

OTOH It does not sound like Sheridan wants a season 2: Taylor Sheridan On ‘1883’ Finale: “We Wanted To Make A 10-Hour Movie With An Ending, And That’s What We Did”


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

ADG said:


> Actually, it did say Oregon.





Jeeters said:


> When the episode cut from Elsa's death scene to Josef the German, it said "One year later". When it then cut to Thomas and Noemi, it said "Willamette Valley Oregon".


Right, the German settled in Oregon.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Really enjoyed this series. I'm ok with a one and done. Isabel May was amazing as Elsa. What a heart wrenching performance. McGraw and Hill were great too. As was the rest of the cast. Taylor Sheridan's writing was superb. Hope it gets recognized when Emmy noms get announced.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

Well, if the Emmy's end up being anything like the oscars, the shows and actors that truly deserve it never get the awards. I think the Oscars tend to go to movies that nobody has either never seen or never heard of or really don't care about. This show deserves to sweep the Emmys as far as I'm concerned. It's definitely in the top five shows of the past decade or so.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Certainly not a show stopper but Elsa's southern accent bugged me a little.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Tony_T said:


> Right, the German settled in Oregon.


I would interpret the "Willamette, Oregon" flash to mean a change of location. If Josef were in Oregon, I would think it would have come before he appears.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

The “one year later” flash indicated a change of location. 
He’s in Oregon.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> The “one year later” flash indicated a change of location.
> He’s in Oregon.


I'm not sure about that. I saw it as he dropped off somewhere on the trail to Oregon. If he had also made it to Oregon, they would have put that graphic up at the same time as "One year later." The placements of those graphics, like almost everything else in a show of this quality, is all quite deliberate.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I’m sure about it


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> I’m sure about it


 +1 - It was on the screen. Rather than argue about it, why not just rewatch the ending?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

It wasn’t _explicitly_ on the screen (which showed the German and the text ‘one year later’, then the next scene was Thomas and the text ‘…Oregon’), but it was clear the German was in Oregon.
I guess it can argued that Elsa may not have died as we didn’t see her being buried


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

An '1883' producer explains how the 'Yellowstone' prequel's story will continue without a season 2


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## kbrunsting (Apr 12, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Certainly not a show stopper but Elsa's southern accent bugged me a little.


Same here.... every time she said something that started with 'wh' it reminded me of the clip of stewie griffin saying 'cool whip'. If anyone was going to be the narrator I would have preferred Sam Elliot.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

Mike Lang said:


> An '1883' producer explains how the 'Yellowstone' prequel's story will continue without a season 2


LOL... I love how the title of the article promises that the producer "explains how"... And proceeds not to explain anything...

All he says is that there are more episodes...but there won't be a season 2... Huh? So much for the explanation of how it will continue w/o a season 2...


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

MikeekiM said:


> LOL... I love how the title of the article promises that the producer "explains how"... And proceeds not to explain anything...
> 
> All he says is that there are more episodes...but there won't be a season 2... Huh? So much for the explanation of how it will continue w/o a season 2...


They can have flashbacks and references in Yellowstone and possibly the 1932 series. In fact they already had a flashback in Yellowstone.
If you look at Tim McGraw and Faith Hill IMDB pages you will see them both in 1883 and Yellowstone: Tim McGraw - IMDb

I can easily see even partial stand alone episodes on both series talking about the establishment of the ranch and cemetery and maybe even their deaths.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

MikeekiM said:


> LOL... I love how the title of the article promises that the producer "explains how"... And proceeds not to explain anything...
> 
> All he says is that there are more episodes...but there won't be a season 2... Huh? So much for the explanation of how it will continue w/o a season 2...





zalusky said:


> They can have flashbacks and references in Yellowstone and possibly the 1932 series. In fact they already had a flashback in Yellowstone.
> If you look at Tim McGraw and Faith Hill IMDB pages you will see them both in 1883 and Yellowstone: Tim McGraw - IMDb
> 
> I can easily see even partial stand alone episodes on both series talking about the establishment of the ranch and cemetery and maybe even their deaths.


Yeah... I imagine the same...

I guess my point is that if that's the case... And there's an article that says that the producer is going to explain it... He could have explained it as you just did... Instead, the article promises an explanation, but doesn't deliver one...

Maybe they should have interviewed you instead... You did a better job explaining it... (of course, assuming that is possibly the explanation)...


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

MikeekiM said:


> Yeah... I imagine the same...
> 
> I guess my point is that if that's the case... And there's an article that says that the producer is going to explain it... He could have explained it as you just did... Instead, the article promises an explanation, but doesn't deliver one...
> 
> Maybe they should have interviewed you instead... You did a better job explaining it... (of course, assuming that is possibly the explanation)...


Perhaps they are still crafting the architecture of the snippets of the story. Since they haven’t aired them yet they are waiting on the marketing.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

zalusky said:


> *My guess is they might want to jump about 10 years making John Dutton II about 18 or so.* The ranch would be in place and they could start to introduce love interests and such. I suppose they could have flashbacks to young John talking with Elsa reflecting on handling a related crisis on Tuesday nights because they rarely we able to be together on Sunday nights  in the style of "This is Us" but I don't think thats a Sheridan move.


I'm late to the show on this one. Just finished watching this with the wife. We really enjoyed it and agree with many others in that Isabel really did well with her role.

Regarding the bolded, I think you mean John Dutton I. That is Elsa's brother and starts the chain of John names.


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