# Where The Hell Is Hdmi-cec?!



## jay_winter

It's 2014, and HDMI 1.4 is old news. So why are new TiVo Premiere and Roamio owners stuck without any CEC controls??


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## Chris Gerhard

I am not sure how HDMI-CEC would work with TiVo since we don't power it on and off like the connected TV and AVR. I may be missing something and I do have a display, Blu-ray, media players and AVR with HDMI-CEC but I can't see how it would even work with TiVo.


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## Dan203

CEC is mostly a gimmick. The volume can just as easily be adjusted via a universal remote, which is what TiVo does. And as Chris pointed out TiVo has no on/off, so I'm not sure when TiVo would use the input command. Most of the other CEC features seem to be based around someone watching live TV through their TVs tuner and sending commands to other devices in the chain, which doesn't really gel with TiVo's intended use.


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## lgnad

There are four reasons I can think of only putting a couple minutes into it:
1. When you have a smart tv and want to use the arc channel for the built in apps, you have to turn on cec to turn on arc (at least with my LG, and ive seen other complaints with other brands). Every single time I power on my tv, it thinks there isn't anything on the input that my Roamio is plugged into on my receiver because Tivo does not support CEC, so it flips to the "tv" (ARC) choice on my receiver and then shows me a "no signal, pick an input" screen. So then I have to wait about 5 seconds after everything powers up, (because it will fight me and keep flipping it back to tv), pick up the crap Pioneer remote and hit 'Video 1" button. Convenience! All it would have to do is like respond that it's there/powered on.

2. If the tv is off, then the Tivo Premieres/Roamios could ignore emergency broadcasts, like when Tivos are on standby. (Or even just go into standby to save the 1w or whatever it saves, and come back out of standby upon power-up of the display)

3. No more worrying about Minis holding tuners after you're done watching. If the tv is turned off, then the mini should drop a tuner if its holding and even go on standby, if it even saves anything on a mini lol <shrug>.

4. When you fling videos to apps, netflix or youtube on your Tivo, your tv could switch to to the input which the tivo is connected to. (like Chromecast does)


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## Dan203

#1 sounds more like a handshake issue then a CEC issue

#2 & #3 don't require CEC, the HDMI connection can tell if it's active or not already.

#4 I could see being useful


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## telemark

Dan203 said:


> The volume can just as easily be adjusted via a universal remote, which is what TiVo does.


The IP remotes (ipad, iphone, android, network remote) can't control volume nor input, but if Tivo added CEC support, then they could.



> And as Chris pointed out TiVo has no on/off, so I'm not sure when TiVo would use the input command.


Standby is close enough. It could request Input when coming out of Standby. And then combine that with telling it to standby when the input is switched off.

Or it can be One Touch Playback, when starting a program from Ios or maybe pressing LiveTV from an Ir remote.


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## MikeAndrews

I have never gotten CEC to work with my Onkyo AVR and my Mits TV.

If I got CEC working would it only give me volume control - which is on the AVR and a no brainer? How about powering off/on the TV?


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## telemark

MikeAndrews said:


> I have never gotten CEC to work with my Onkyo AVR and my Mits TV.
> 
> If I got CEC working would it only give me volume control - which is on the AVR and a no brainer? How about powering off/on the TV?


I think nobody knows off hand. There's a number of CEC features, but they came out slowly over time, and each manufacturer can choose a different subset to support.

You would have to take the model number of each device, and look up how much support it has, perhaps in the manual or marketing page. Then you have to match up the 2 devices's support to see if it's suppose to work. So given that, you might be better off asking in an AV forum for the devices you have.

Here are the trade names to get anyone started:
Samsung - Anynet+
Sony - BRAVIA Link or BRAVIA Sync
Sharp - Aquos Link
Hitachi - HDMI-CEC
AOC - E-link
Pioneer - Kuro Link
Toshiba - Regza Link or CE-Link
Onkyo - RIHD (Remote Interactive over HDMI)
LG - SimpLink
Panasonic - VIERA Link or HDAVI Control or EZ-Sync
Philips - EasyLink
Mitsubishi - NetCommand for HDMI
Runco International - RuncoLink

But yes, Volume and Power On are defined CEC features, so some models out there are suppose to do what you asked for.
http://www.hdmi.org/ces2008/presentations/2008_CES_HDMITechZone_SimplayLabs.pdf


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## jay_winter

This isn't about what Tivo can DO with the CEC control functions -- Its about Tivo _responding_ to your HDTV with the proper logical and physical HDMI addresses so that your HDTV does not tell your HDMI receiver to switch to a different input for TV audio. This happens now because your "smart" HDTV isn't aware that a Tivo box is connected to the active HDMI input to your "smart" AV receiver. So, when you power up the TV, the TV tells the AVR to switch to the "TV" input -- instead of the HDMI input the Tivo was already connected to..

This is the root of most of the AVR communication issues you see listed in this thread. Tivo is aware of it and yet has decided to ignore it -- even in their most recent products!
In other words, while all of your other equipment is CEC-aware, Tivo is CEC-deaf-and-dumb! Is this a problem that a universal remote cannot solve? Of course not! But the whole reason for implementing CEC controls in the first place is to eliminate the need for multiple remotes. If your Tivo (or TV) remote can turn the TV on and off -- that is the only remote control you should need to turn your entire system on and off without losing its previous configuration --AND control the system volume.

Ahh, but there is hope for a 3rd-party fix! A little company in the UK named *PulseEight* has developed a remarkable little HDMI adapter aimed at the HTPC market to make HTPCs CEC-capable. This does not address the set-top box market yet, but when I inquired about it, the response I received is that they will in fact have such a product offering later this year!

UPDATE - 4/5/2015: Hope is dying. I have pinged *PulseEight* several tuimes about the promised device, but it doesn't exist and don't think it ever will.
For more information, look here: http://www.pulse-eight.com/store/products/104-usb-hdmi-cec-adapter.aspx


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## Diana Collins

Chris Gerhard said:


> I am not sure how HDMI-CEC would work with TiVo since we don't power it on and off like the connected TV and AVR. I may be missing something and I do have a display, Blu-ray, media players and AVR with HDMI-CEC but I can't see how it would even work with TiVo.


It works with a DirecTV DVR that never really gets turned "off" either. In DirecTV's case when the DVR sees the "off" command it shuts off the HDMI output. Since the Roamios (at least) process EVERY remote command, they could know when you turn the TV on or off (with the TiVo remote) and turn the HDMI on and off as well.

Not to mention that, as jay_winter references above, a lot of TVs will interrogate all the HDMI devices attached to compliant receiver and populate their input menu with entries that not only select the receiver but also select the correct input on the receiver.


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## telemark

jay_winter said:


> This isn't about what Tivo can DO with the CEC control functions -- Its about Tivo _responding_ to your HDTV with the proper logical and physical HDMI addresses so that your HDTV does not tell your HDMI receiver to switch to a different input for TV audio. This happens now because your "smart" HDTV isn't aware that a Tivo box is connected to the active HDMI input to your "smart" AV receiver. So, when you power up the TV, the TV tells the AVR to switch to the "TV" input -- instead of the HDMI input the Tivo was already connected to..


I'm confused.

The CEC main device (TV) is suppose to fallback and track all HDMI devices, even the non CEC enabled. If it does something illogical with something non-CEC, that sounds like the TV or receiver's fault. (new aware devices should be designed to work well with old non-aware devices)

If your receiver is switching to the TV input, shouldn't you move the Tivo to that input? (Or is that a non-HDMI input?)


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## Dan203

All this stuff is designed around the premiss that you're watching live TV through the TVs tuner. That's why it sucks so bad. I tried CEC on my TV for controlling my AV receiver's volume. There was a serious lag and they would become out of sync so that the volume level listed on the TV was inconsistent. It was a huge PITA so I turned it off.


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## Dan203

telemark said:


> The IP remotes (ipad, iphone, android, network remote) can't control volume nor input, but if Tivo added CEC support, then they could.


I guess if you really like using your phone as a remote that could be useful. Seems like a lot of engineering effort for something very few people would use though.



telemark said:


> Standby is close enough. It could request Input when coming out of Standby. And then combine that with telling it to standby when the input is switched off.


As long as it can be turned off. I have multiple TiVos connected to the same AV receiver, I don't want them going to sleep every time I switch between them or it turning the receiver back on if I accidentally hit the TiVo button on the wrong remote.



telemark said:


> Or it can be One Touch Playback, when starting a program from Ios or maybe pressing LiveTV from an Ir remote.


This is similar to the option mentioned above that would switch inputs if you launch Netflix, etc... via DIAL. This I could see being useful.


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## nooneuknow

I stumbled across something I had never seen before the other day, while checking a link somebody posted for HDMI equipment.

A specifically non HDMI-CEC HDMI cable. It deliberately was made with the CEC signalling wire left out (or perhaps just not connected to the end pins).

It sounds like the perfect solution for some of what I read here, if I'm understanding correctly.

I'll be back to edit and post a link if I can find that cable's source again. I know I checked monoprice, and they didn't have any such product. I was shocked that monoprice didn't have any. I think I went there looking for a lower price.

Feel free to help-out and post links to anyplace you are aware of selling them, or that you find sells them. Having a choice of more than one seller is always a good thing.


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## telemark

Pulse eight had one:
http://www.pulse-eight.com/store/products/110-cec-less-hdmi-cable.aspx


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## nooneuknow

telemark said:


> Pulse eight had one:
> http://www.pulse-eight.com/store/products/110-cec-less-hdmi-cable.aspx


That's actually the website I found it on, thanks to another member who had recommended another product from the same site.


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## jay_winter

Thanks NOONEUKNOW!

The "non-CEC" HDMI cable is a VERY interesting idea! Thanks for the tip, but beware that this cable is only about 10 inches long and may require an HDMI extension to work.
Please let us know if this works for you!


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## jay_winter

Dan203 said:


> All this stuff is designed around the premiss that you're watching live TV through the TVs tuner. That's why it sucks so bad. I tried CEC on my TV for controlling my AV receiver's volume. There was a serious lag and they would become out of sync so that the volume level listed on the TV was inconsistent. It was a huge PITA so I turned it off.


Wrong -- It assumes that your TV is the main HDMI device and that you wish to use the TV remote for on/off/volume control of the entire system -- whether or not you are using the TV tuner.


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## jay_winter

telemark said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> The CEC main device (TV) is suppose to fallback and track all HDMI devices, even the non CEC enabled. If it does something illogical with something non-CEC, that sounds like the TV or receiver's fault. (new aware devices should be designed to work well with old non-aware devices)
> 
> If your receiver is switching to the TV input, shouldn't you move the Tivo to that input? (Or is that a non-HDMI input?)


The TiVo does not implement the CEC handshake with the controller (TV) so the TV does not know that the receiver has a live data feed and instructs the receiver to "connect the TV input". In my case -- and most of the instances I have read from other users-- the Tivo IS, in fact, connected through an HDMI input to the receiver, but the receiver defaults to another audio (optical/digital) input as the "TV" input. Relabeling this input doesn't help -- or isn't an option because usually the HDMI inputs cannot be chosen as the "TV" audio input. This is because most HDTVs, by their nature, don't have a dedicated HDMI "output" port -- only an optical or analog one.


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## jay_winter

Dan203 said:


> All this stuff is designed around the premiss that you're watching live TV through the TVs tuner. That's why it sucks so bad. I tried CEC on my TV for controlling my AV receiver's volume. There was a serious lag and they would become out of sync so that the volume level listed on the TV was inconsistent. It was a huge PITA so I turned it off.


Both the TV and the receiver must implement HDMI version 1.4, and CEC-control must be an available option and enabled on both devices for on/off/volume control to work correctly. Also, some recent-model HDTVs have a hard-to-find "Home Theater" configuration setting that redirects sound to the receiver.


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## nooneuknow

jay_winter said:


> Both the TV and the receiver must implement HDMI version 1.4, and CEC-control must be an available option and enabled on both devices for on/off/volume control to work correctly. Also, some recent-model HDTVs have a hard-to-find "Home Theater" configuration setting that redirects sound to the receiver.


The only HDMI "1.4" devices I own are WDTV Live Hubs, Chromecasts, and a couple HDMI switches (2 out of 4). Even before I owned those (and presently), none of my TVs were anything greater that v1.3 (the TVs being early 1.x, with one w/1.3x that had ARC, which supposedly was a 1.4 option). I use all 1.3x cables, but have two 1.4 ones.

All of the TVs, none being 1.4, have the HDMI-CEC (under their own brand label of it). It also worked fine, until I upgraded to Roamios from Premieres and TiVo HDs. Then, I was getting blasted by audio squelches, and/or loud busts of audi static, with every resolution change, change of input (to or from a Roamio), and more. I had to disable it on everything due to whatever about the Roamio is different in the HDMI. I've also found that using the Roamios (direct in to TVs) on non-ARC HDMI inputs (my TVs that support it only do on port #1), eliminates the near deafening audio squelching/static. Better results overall by both not using the ARC supporting inputs and disabling HDMI-CEC.

The closest thing I have to receivers are that some of my TVs have outputs allowing me to add external amplified speakers, use them in conjunction with the built-in ones, and get "poor man's surround". If I only use the built-in speakers, the squelching/audio static bursts go-away.

The take-away point for all this is that you don't need HDMI 1.4 to have and use HDMI-CEC (as you declared) and ARC. Both of these seem to be a problem for the Roamio (in my experience). It's also worth noting the Roamio is not HDMI 1.4.


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## jay_winter

nooneuknow said:


> The only HDMI "1.4" devices I own are WDTV Live Hubs, Chromecasts, and a couple HDMI switches (2 out of 4). Even before I owned those (and presently), none of my TVs were anything greater that v1.3 (the TVs being early 1.x, with one w/1.3x that had ARC, which supposedly was a 1.4 option). I use all 1.3x cables, but have two 1.4 ones.
> 
> All of the TVs, none being 1.4, have the HDMI-CEC (under their own brand label of it). It also worked fine, until I upgraded to Roamios from Premieres and TiVo HDs. Then, I was getting blasted by audio squelches, and/or loud busts of audi static, with every resolution change, change of input (to or from a Roamio), and more. I had to disable it on everything due to whatever about the Roamio is different in the HDMI. I've also found that using the Roamios (direct in to TVs) on non-ARC HDMI inputs (my TVs that support it only do on port #1), eliminates the near deafening audio squelching/static. Better results overall by both not using the ARC supporting inputs and disabling HDMI-CEC.
> 
> The closest thing I have to receivers are that some of my TVs have outputs allowing me to add external amplified speakers, use them in conjunction with the built-in ones, and get "poor man's surround". If I only use the built-in speakers, the squelching/audio static bursts go-away.
> 
> The take-away point for all this is that you don't need HDMI 1.4 to have and use HDMI-CEC (as you declared) and ARC. Both of these seem to be a problem for the Roamio (in my experience). It's also worth noting the Roamio is not HDMI 1.4.


Ah, you are indeed correct -- please pardon my aforementioned declaration! ARC and CEC are necessarily included with HDMI 1.4, but they are not PREcluded from HDMI 1.3 devices which may implement either or both of these features. All that aside, it sounds like your particular problems with the Roamios was related specifically to ARC. Since my Tivos are both Premier 4's, I have not experienced similar issues. However, it does sound like maybe the "non-CEC" HDMI cable might just what the Roamio needs.


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## Dan203

jay_winter said:


> Both the TV and the receiver must implement HDMI version 1.4, and CEC-control must be an available option and enabled on both devices for on/off/volume control to work correctly. Also, some recent-model HDTVs have a hard-to-find "Home Theater" configuration setting that redirects sound to the receiver.


Both of my devices do (Samsung TV and Onkyo receiver, both less then 2 years old). It still doesn't work well. Even using the ARC for playing the audio from the smart TV apps through the receiver is hit and miss. I usually have to turn off the receiver, and sometimes the TV, to get them to sync up.

It just seems like an immature technology, with spotty support, that doesn't really benefit TiVo users that much.


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## jay_winter

Dan203 said:


> Both of my devices do (Samsung TV and Onkyo receiver, both less then 2 years old). It still doesn't work well. Even using the ARC for playing the audio from the smart TV apps through the receiver is hit and miss. I usually have to turn off the receiver, and sometimes the TV, to get them to sync up.
> 
> It just seems like an immature technology, with spotty support, that doesn't really benefit TiVo users that much.


Dan,
I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had better luck with CEC, but the tone of your comments is, I think, inappropriately dismissive. This is, after all, the "Suggestions" forum, and I started this thread to bring up an issue that many of us home theater equipment users are frustrated with and would like to at least identify the reasons for -- if not find a solution.

My primary point is that Tivo does not implement CEC control protocol in ANY model, and that's problem I want Tivo to acknowledge and address. You may think it's all just useless gimmickry, but that gimmickry is desirable to some of us automation nerds, and we want to see it succeed.


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## Diana Collins

Even a $50 Roku has rudimentary CEC support. We have a old Samsung DLP hooked up to a Pioneer A/V receiver and the Playstation 3 and 4, the Roku and the DirecTV Genie show up as inputs on the TV input menu and the Pioneer automatically switches inputs when we select one. Everything works fine...except the Roamio. That requires us to select the HDMI input on the TV, and then select the correct source on the Pioneer (which means we need both the TiVo remote and the Pioneer remote, or a universal remote and IR repeaters to get the signals inside the cabinet).

This is not rocket science...simply acknowledging CEC polling requests would be a step in the right direction.


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## Dan203

jay_winter said:


> Dan,
> I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had better luck with CEC, but the tone of your comments is, I think, inappropriately dismissive. This is, after all, the "Suggestions" forum, and I started this thread to bring up an issue that many of us home theater equipment users are frustrated with and would like to at least identify the reasons for -- if not find a solution.
> 
> My primary point is that Tivo does not implement CEC control protocol in ANY model, and that's problem I want Tivo to acknowledge and address. You may think it's all just useless gimmickry, but that gimmickry is desirable to some of us automation nerds, and we want to see it succeed.


The reason I'm dismissive is because from TiVo's perspective CEC makes very little sense. Power, volume and input can all be controlled from the remote via IR which is much more widely supported and more reliable then CEC. (the Xbox One also uses IR over CEC for the same reasons)

The other big features people mentioned were automatically putting the TiVo into standby when the TV is turned off, which can be done without CEC, and switching the input to TiVo when something is flung via DIAL. The second one is not a bad suggestion but in most cases people use their TiVo as their primary viewing device and will most likely already be on the right input, so not really necessary. And if they're not on the right input there is a button on the remote for that. (see above )

CEC seems cool on paper, but in reality it would provide very little value to a TiVo owner other then the fringe use case of using your phone as a remote control. I'd rather they spend development effort on fixing bugs or adding more main stream apps.

I'm curious... what exactly do you envision CEC doing for you that can't already be done?


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## jay_winter

Dan203 said:


> The reason I'm dismissive is because from TiVo's perspective CEC makes very little sense. Power, volume and input can all be controlled from the remote via IR which is much more widely supported and more reliable then CEC. (the Xbox One also uses IR over CEC for the same reasons)
> 
> The other big features people mentioned were automatically putting the TiVo into standby when the TV is turned off, which can be done without CEC, and switching the input to TiVo when something is flung via DIAL. The second one is not a bad suggestion but in most cases people use their TiVo as their primary viewing device and will most likely already be on the right input, so not really necessary. And if they're not on the right input there is a button on the remote for that. (see above )
> 
> CEC seems cool on paper, but in reality it would provide very little value to a TiVo owner other then the fringe use case of using your phone as a remote control. I'd rather they spend development effort on fixing bugs or adding more main stream apps.
> 
> I'm curious... what exactly do you envision CEC doing for you that can't already be done?


I don't think you've been paying attention, because everything you asked has been answered already several times here. 
So, if you don't have anything positive to contribute, perhaps you should not concern yourself with this issue.


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## geogolem

jay_winter said:


> I don't think you've been paying attention, because everything you asked has been answered already several times here.
> So, if you don't have anything positive to contribute, perhaps you should not concern yourself with this issue.


I know this thread has been dead for several months but I just got a TIVO and the lack of HDMI-CEC support really sucks. All my other devices support it. When off and set to pass through the only way my AV receiver can change inputs is via CEC otherwise one needs to power up the receiver and switch inputs to SAT/CABLE in order to get TIVO again. Likewise all the other devices (Blu ray, PS4) switch inputs no problem. The only issue is getting back to the TIVO after.

its not a problem for me really since I know whats going on but it is an issue for others in the family.

I have a harmony universal remote as well but the problem is that my setup uses ARC for the smart tv apps.

Everything works great; the only thing is input switching with TIVO..

I realize TIVO doesnt go on or off but to at least have the TIVO send out a signal on CEC saying it became active when the TIVO is given any command would be more useful than the invisibility TIVO has right now.


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## telemark

Has CEC ever come up in those secret surveys they send out? 
I'm not sure who I'm asking, just throwing it out into the ether. hypothetically.


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## geogolem

telemark said:


> Has CEC ever come up in those secret surveys they send out?
> I'm not sure who I'm asking, just throwing it out into the ether. hypothetically.


I've never received a survey; however, after I saw your post I did a google search and I found this: research.tivo.com/suggestions/

I made a suggestion regarding HDMI CEC and linked to this thread.. I can't believe that in this day and age they still dont support this standard. it can't do any harm if they allow you to enable/disable it via the menu like most devices.


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## trip1eX

IT would nice for switching inputs on my receiver. Otherwise I don't care. 

I'm pretty negative on electronic equipment manufacturers and their standards and decades of refusing to play as nice as they could with each other etc etc. It gives me a headache thinking about it.

I'm waiting for Apple or someone else to design a receiver with 1-button and a Tv to go along with it.


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## Dan203

I could see where the input part would be useful for certain setups, but none of the other aspects of CEC really apply to TiVo so I still don't understand the outrage people seem to have over it's absence. Even the input thing could be sort of difficult in the context of TiVo since it never actually get's turned off. I'm not sure what sort of info is transmitted to the device or whether or not it can tell if it's on the active input or not.

The rest of the CEC spec doesn't really apply to TiVo.


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## nooneuknow

HDMI-CEC being bastardized by trademarked names, not adhering to the voltage level specs, often making only same-brand devices play well together, has been a plague on HDMI-CEC.

As I've mentioned in a few threads, you can buy cables with the HDMI-CEC wire not connected, specifically to address issues with bastardized implementations and incompatibility.

It seems most useful for situations where you want HDMI-CEC enabled, but a particular device is causing problems. I'm not the member who found the cable exists, but seem to be catching all the grief for saying it exists (implications that there's no reason for it to exist, and/or it's just so easy to reconfigure devices to not need such a cable, etc).

I know it's not the answer to the thread title, and what the OP is looking for.


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## wmcbrine

geogolem said:


> I realize TIVO doesnt go on or off


It does have a Standby mode, neglected though it is (buried on a second-level menu).


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## nooneuknow

wmcbrine said:


> It does have a Standby mode, neglected though it is (buried on a second-level menu).


I still use it every night, or when I'm away for a long time. The Roamio (and Premiere in HDUI mode) have the second-level menu for Settings & Messages displayed on the same screen, to the right of the TiVo Central menu, and standby is right there, without having to even leave TC.

If talking SDUI TiVos, yes, buried.

But, as you seem to be suggesting, it can be used to make an auto-switching HDMI switch change to the next port, or advance to the TiVo port, if you can even get a HDMI switch to work. My 3 base Roamios have a hard enough time doing HDMI direct to the TVs, and ~5 brands of switches later, I gave up and put everything non-TiVo on switches, with no issues using the switches for everything but TiVo.

Still not what the OP wanted, but that convo seems dead, anyway.

Standby does at least stop EAS test messages from borking up recordings, in the markets where the system used embeds the banner, rather than using a superficial overlay. But, the channel changes EAS makes in either system are allowed to be ignored, if the device is not sending out any TV AV signal.


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## telemark

nooneuknow said:


> But, as you seem to be suggesting, it can be used to make an auto-switching HDMI switch change to the next port, or advance to the TiVo port, if you can even get a HDMI switch to work.


I no longer use a HDMI Autoswitch but from my memory of it, this does not work (with Tivo standby), like you think it would.


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## nooneuknow

telemark said:


> I no longer use a HDMI Autoswitch but from my memory of it, this does not work (with Tivo standby), like you think it would.


Not think it would, but know it could, and actually did work for me. I was able to actually use just about any HDMI switch before I moved to Roamios, and my older TiVos did work as I described, on the switches I was using.

Others have reported doing the same, with the same parameters, many times throughout TCF. That's how I found out about the concept.


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## telemark

I just spent this time testing my retired HDMI switches.

I have two older but common auto-switches that exhibit the behavior of not switching away from Tivo when put into Standby, nor returning to Tivo when being resumed. They can still tell the Tivo's there when in Standby somehow.

I'm willing to believe newer auto-switches key off something different, but if so, maybe we should be tracking which models are behaving in the desirable way, as you described.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=520342 was a decent thread.

Tested with Premiere+Roamio OTA on 20.4.4a. As a control, pulling/restoring the power from/to these Tivo's causes the switching like you said.


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## nooneuknow

telemark said:


> I just spent this time testing my retired HDMI switches.
> 
> I have two older but common auto-switches that exhibit the behavior of not switching away from Tivo when put into Standby, nor returning to Tivo when being resumed. They can still tell the Tivo's there when in Standby somehow.
> 
> I'm willing to believe newer auto-switches key off something different, but if so, maybe we should be tracking which models are behaving in the desirable way, as you described.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=520342 was a decent thread.
> 
> Tested with Premiere+Roamio OTA on 20.4.4a. As a control, pulling/restoring the power from/to these Tivo's causes the switching like you said.


Any thoughts on if TiVo software updates may have modified the behavior, since back when I could use the auto-switching? I've also experienced some odd behavior, using HDMI 1.3 cables, which had 1.4 capabilities, especially those with "with ethernet" on the jacketing. I have no full HDMI 1.4 TVs, but have one TV (same as in that thread), with ARC on input 1, which is something that is part of 1.4 spec.

In the thread you referenced, you can see that others were saying it could be done (standby to trigger switching). But, I posted it wasn't my cup of tea to do it that way, as I had to power off everything but what I was using, or place each one in some form of standby.

I was also posting off memory, on using original model 2-tuner Premieres, and TiVo HDs, as I had since upgraded to Roamios. A lot of updates rolled between then and now, but not for TiVo HDs. I never got the Roamios to work well enough with any switches, in order to do more than to use standby as more of an HDMI reset function, short of rebooting, pulling the HDMI cable, or TV power cycling.

If there's any TiVo platform that should not hold/hang an auto-switch on port, it would be a TiVo HD. The bonus of testing this with one is no software updates since back when I had mine, and had them on an auto-switch.

I'm also certain the Premieres played well, but the timeframe I was using those, was before the platform had even matured, running on ancient software.

Judging by the plethora of HDMI issues I have had with the Roamios, and how every software update just makes a switch misbehave differently, but never work right, it might be safe to assume the Premiere HDMI outputs have also been tweaked.

There's much to be done here. But, I know part of the issues I've had are the TVs I have. TiVos work differently, depending on which HDMI input I use, and what cables. My experience with the older TiVos was not issue-free, but generally worked enough to leave the switch in.

When you were testing switches, did you turn off HDMI-CEC, completely? If not, I suggest you try that. The next step might involve getting at least two of those CEC-free cables from http://www.pulse-eight.com/store/products/110-cec-less-hdmi-cable.aspx and seeing if it is the state of the voltage level on the CEC line. I'm sure you would know how to test that without having to buy a cable, by simple insulating the connector conductor for it, or cutting open the cable.

I have also observed that a chromecast can switch both the port of the switch (when plugged into a switch), plus the input of the TV, when CEC is enabled on the TV, but only on some switches, and not every TV either, which supports your theory on some switches using another indicator to auto-switch, than others.

Your experiments may be getting thwarted by your TVs, rather than the TiVos, so getting a bead on the signal line states, and seeing if TV menu settings truly are changing the state of the CEC line seems like a good start.

P.S. Thanks for adding another project to my TDL.  I'm still working on that other project we have not spoke of lately. You know where you can talk to me, or the group, if anybody still cares, or is continuing on, besides me.


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## anomaloid

I came across this forum because I was also unhappy the TiVo did not seem to work with CEC. I was surprised to see so many comments about why anybody would want this or how it would even work with a device that was always on. So, I thought I would explain how I use CEC with other devices and why I think it should also be able to work with TiVo in at least one limited instance.

When I press the home or menu button on my Apple TV remote, the television turns on and switches to the correct HDMI port. The same thing happens if I open up a video app on my iPhone and cast it to a chromecast device that is connected to my TV. Now, some people who have commented earlier have made the distinction that, in these cases, the device was asleep and waking it is what initiated a signal to turn on the television. This supposedly would not work with a TiVo because the TiVo device never goes to sleep. This does seem to be the case even with my Apple TV. If I leave the Apple TV on and turn the television off, there is no button on the Apple TV remote that will turn the television back on again.

However, in the case of the Apple TV, at least, port switching via CEC appears to work when the device is awake. Here is the scenario that I am referring to:

1. You're watching a Netflix video on your AppleTV.

2. You either pause the video or leave it playing, and then switch to another input such as your TiVo.

3. Once you are done doing whatever you needed to do on your TiVo, you press the menu button on the Apple TV remote to return to the page where you can resume the video.

Because of this, it seems like pressing the TiVo button on the TiVo remote should be able to bring you to the TiVo homepage via CEC as long as the television is already on, regardless of which input it is currently tuned to. This may seem like a minor nuisance, but it is the difference between having to juggle two vs. three remote controls. If pressing a button on a device remote control will automatically switch the television input, then I don't have to switch the input manually on the television remote control.

Now, one might ask why I even need an Apple TV because my TiVo is able to access all of the major streaming services, including a big one that Apple does not: Amazon. Well, my experience so far is that the user experience for streaming media apps like Netflix and Hulu on an Apple TV is still far superior to the same experience on the TiVo. The streaming media apps load much more slowly on the TiVo, and the interface is clunkier. The experience reminds me more of a smart TV than a dedicated streaming media player like AppleTV or Roku.

I'm optimistic that TiVo will improve their overall interface and apps as more people realize that a device that can capture digital over the air broadcasts and also includes apps for major streaming services is the ideal device for cord cutters.


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## Dan203

I concede that maybe it should change inputs on the TV when you press the TiVo button, but that's soooo far down on my TiVo wishlist. Especially when the remote has an i put button on it you can program for your TV or AV receiver.*

* Did you know that some remotes, like the Slide Pro, are learning remotes and you can actually teach them the command to switch directly to a specific input? I taught my Slide Pro the discrete code for the input my TiVo is connected to on my AV receiver so one button press and my TiVo pops back on the TV.


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