# Game of Thrones S3E8 05/19/2013 'Second Sons'



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

hmm...is the original air date to the episode 7 thread wrong?

Lots to talk about. Cersei is a complete and total b*tch.

Joras is not going to like the new guy. He's not going to like him at all!

I was unsure whether the dragonglass was going to be the ultimate weapon against dragons or white walkers. I guess now we know.

Thank God for small favors: No Theon!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I knew Fabio The Mercenary would end up aligned with Danaerys as soon as his hair started blowing in the breeze.

Remind me to get the heck out of dodge with a quickness when more than three crows gather together.

Dudes getting sex can't catch a break. Torture quickly follows.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> ...Fabio The Mercenary...


:up:

Perfect name for him and it sums up exactly what I felt the moment I saw him! The only thing missing were CGI arrows pointing at him!


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> Dudes getting sex can't catch a break. Torture quickly follows.


I wonder who got the penis leech, Joffrey, Balon, or Robb? 

Melisandre certainly is cruel. She could have just put the leeches on his arm. Heck, she probably could have persuaded him to put them on his own arm.


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Was it someone here that wanted to see more of Emilia Clarke? 
Did Samwell remember to take the knife after the White Walker's death?
I loved Diana Rigg's explanation of all the convoluted familial relationships between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.
OK, if all that Mellisandre needed was a leech's mouth full of the "blood of a king" why couldn't Stannis supply that? I assume the answer is she's going to need a lot more for a later spell, but if he put the hex on Robb, Joffrey, and Balon Greyjoy, why not Daneris?

Has anyone noticed that the better "legal" claim one has to the Iron Throne, the lousier the claimholder is?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

tiassa said:


> Did Samwell remember to take the knife after the White Walker's death?


Nope. He ran away and left it on the ground.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Cersei is certainly is a handful, too bad she's a woman else she'd be the one to inherit House Lannister.

So now Dany has her army and the gold to fund them...and all she had to do was take a bath.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Ment said:


> Cersei is certainly is a handful, too bad she's a woman else she'd be the one to inherit House Lannister.


Too bad for who?


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

My wife's comment about the bath was "They only need like another inch of water and her nipples would be covered"

My reply: "I bet that water level was selected very carefully" 

I was yelling at my TV "Don't forget the dagger you just killed that thing with you idiot!"


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

tiassa said:


> OK, if all that Mellisandre needed was a leech's mouth full of the "blood of a king" why couldn't Stannis supply that? I assume the answer is she's going to need a lot more for a later spell, but if he put the hex on Robb, Joffrey, and Balon Greyjoy, why not Daneris?


I think she wants a lot more of his blood, but the onion knight managed to create enough doubt that they needed a "test" first.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

zordude said:


> My wife's comment about the bath was "They only need like another inch of water and her nipples would be covered"
> 
> My reply: "I bet that water level was selected very carefully"
> 
> I was yelling at my TV "Don't forget the dagger you just killed that thing with you idiot!"


Tell your wife they only needed a different camera angle for full frontal. 

Tyrion had some great drunken lines. And the look on Joffrey's face when he was threatened.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I think this episode highlights a better way of making the show. Let's just say there are 9 different stories going on (e.g. Robb, Arya, Tyrion, Jaime, ...etc.). I think it would be better to pick 3 stories and spend an entire episode on them.

Cycle through each story every 3/4 episodes while spending 5 minutes on the minor ones (e.g. Sam, Theon). I think it's much better than episodes where we spend 3-5 minutes on each story and jumping around too much.

Rich Man / Poor Man did this (one week it was Peter Strauss, the other was Nick Nolte). And it worked very well.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

fmowry said:


> Tyrion had some great drunken lines. And the look on Joffrey's face when he was threatened.


Yup! For a minute, I was sure that we were about to see the next GoT death.  For best scene, it's a toss-up between that and "Not there, not THERE!"


----------



## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

When I saw the preview last week, I was really hoping for a Tywin/Joffery confrontation.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

This episode showed again that Joffrey is ultimately a total coward, no matter how many tied up prostitutes he abuses.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

With Melisandra saying that the lamb needed to be sacrificed, I was sure, as we were supposed to think, that Gendry was going to have his throat cut.

My buddy and I were mentioning that if Sansa really was only 14 then we for sure would never see her boobies. 

"If you call me sister again, I'll have you strangled in your sleep." Oh, yeah? Exactly which woman would be the queen?


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Nope. He ran away and left it on the ground.


I know, WTF?

He also ran in the direction the white-walker came from. Not the smartest.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

zordude said:


> This episode showed again that Joffrey is ultimately a total coward, no matter how many tied up prostitutes he abuses.


Yeah. I'm looking forward to the day when Jeffy is face to face all alone with Arya, "HELLO! My name is Arya Stark. You killed my father. Prepare to die."


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

john4200 said:


> Too bad for who?


Bad for everyone she crosses.  I liked her character more in previous seasons, now she is reduced to sniping.



vertigo235 said:


> I know, WTF?
> 
> He also ran in the direction the white-walker came from. Not the smartest.


Well was he ever the smartest?


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

netringer said:


> With Melisandra saying that the lamb needed to be sacrificed, I was sure, as we were supposed to think, that Gendry was going to have his throat cut.


at the time, the intent was to kill Gendry. Only The Onion Knight saved him by asking for a demonstration of the power (I assume we will see what does happen to Robb, Joffrey, and Balon).



netringer said:


> My buddy and I were mentioning that if Sansa really was only 14 then we for sure would never see her boobies.


The actress is 17. We are absolutely not going to see boobies.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Interestingly both Sansa and Daenerys (the characters, not the actresses who portray them) are very close to the same age in the story (Dany is two years older). But their life experiences have shaped them in very different ways.


----------



## AlphaDelta (Jan 9, 2007)

So what was the leech spell supposed to do? They cut immediately to Joffrey, but nothing happened to him.

Did Stannis mess it up by calling him "Joffrey Baratheon"? Stannis of all people knows he's not a Baratheon.

What does Stannis have against Robb? Robb doesn't want the Iron Throne, and didn't Ned say that Stannis should be the true heir?


----------



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

netringer said:


> With Melisandra saying that the lamb needed to be sacrificed, I was sure, as we were supposed to think, that Gendry was going to have his throat cut.
> 
> My buddy and I were mentioning that if Sansa really was only 14 then we for sure would never see her boobies.
> 
> "If you call me sister again, I'll have you strangled in your sleep." Oh, yeah? Exactly which woman would be the queen?


The actress is only 17. No boobs for awhile.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

AlphaDelta said:


> So what was the leech spell supposed to do? They cut immediately to Joffrey, but nothing happened to him.
> 
> Did Stannis mess it up by calling him "Joffrey Baratheon"? Stannis of all people knows he's not a Baratheon.
> 
> What does Stannis have against Robb? Robb doesn't want the Iron Throne, and didn't Ned say that Stannis should be the true heir?


Robb has declared himself king of the North (Balon Greyjoy declared himself king as well). All 3 are traitors as far as Stannis is concerned since he is the rightful heir to the entire kingdom (including the North and the Pyke).


----------



## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

AlphaDelta said:


> What does Stannis have against Robb? Robb doesn't want the Iron Throne, and didn't Ned say that Stannis should be the true heir?


Stannis wants the whole kingdom, he views Robb as a rebellion trying to tear his kingdom apart.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

When you discover that the magic knife kills the unkillable monsters, shouldn't "run away" be put on hold pending "pick up the magic knife"?

Yes, not the sharpest tool in the shed.

A rather dull tool, rusting away in the weeds outside the shed.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> When you discover that the magic knife kills the unkillable monsters, shouldn't "run away" be put on hold pending "pick up the magic knife"?
> 
> Yes, not the sharpest tool in the shed.
> 
> A rather dull tool, rusting away in the weeds outside the shed.


/Sam

Is this a trick question?


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Anubys said:


> ...The actress is 17. We are absolutely not going to see boobies.





BradJW said:


> The actress is only 17. No boobs for awhile.


 Funny that I just saw the boobies of Lip's girlfriend, Karen, on Shameless and they're supposed to be in high school.

http://www.sho.com/sho/shameless/season/1/episode/4#/index


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

AlphaDelta said:


> So what was the leech spell supposed to do? They cut immediately to Joffrey, but nothing happened to him...


They did make lots of fire when she through them in. I figure that was the "proof".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> They did make lots of fire when she through them in. I figure that was the "proof".


I don't know, leeches catching fire when they're thrown into a fire isn't proof to me of anything except that leeches are flammable...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm torn between seeing Joffrey and Balon suffer versus Robb getting the same fate!

Which one got the penis leech? that one is going to suffer more


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If I was Sansa, I would have made sure Bronn or somebody was guarding that door after Tyrion passed out. Tywin must have put a guard on Joffrey to make sure he left them alone. 

I love the way they show the faces on the Weirwood trees. They are so cool. :up:

Sam may not be smart, but he's pretty brave for a coward. 

They had better not take regular swords into battle with white walkers, or they'll be out of swords in no time.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

Keep in mind that sam found the knife in a cache of others at the fist of the first men.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

pmyers said:


> They did make lots of fire when she through them in. I figure that was the "proof".


As Stannis says, "You saw what she gave birth to. What other proof do you need?"

Maybe Mellie needs Gendry to do her to have another shadow baby.


----------



## jakerock (Dec 9, 2002)

If the leeches burn and they float then I am pretty sure that they are witches.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Anubys said:


> The actress is 17. We are absolutely not going to see boobies.


While I would put it into the "will not happen" category, it has been done before. IIRC Thora Birch was like 16 or 17 in American Beauty and Michelle Johnson was 17 in Blame it on Rio. I think both of those situations were news stories at the time of their film's release.


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Azlen said:


> While I would put it into the "will not happen" category, it has been done before. IIRC Thora Birch was like 16 or 17 in American Beauty and Michelle Johnson was 17 in Blame it on Rio. I think both of those situations were news stories at the time of their film's release.


I was going to mention the same thing. Thora Birch was 17 when she filmed her topless scene in American Beauty. Her parents had to okay it before it could be filmed.

tk


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

How old was Brooke Shields when she made Pretty Baby? 12?


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Creepiest side rail in a while. 

Presumably Sam will go back for the knife.


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

netringer said:


> My buddy and I were mentioning that if Sansa really was only 14 then we for sure would never see her boobies.


Actress's age is relevant. CHARACTER's age, not.



BradJW said:


> The actress is only 17. No boobs for awhile.


So - next season, then?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Marco said:


> Actress's age is relevant. CHARACTER's age, not.


Well, yes it is.

Actor's age is relevant in terms of what they're allowed to do. Character's age is relevant in terms of what they'll want to do. No matter how old the actor is, showing a 14-year-old character's boobs is going to be perceived as icky, and they'll only do it if that's what they're going for.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

With all the T&A we get from this show I think I can rest satisfied if I do not see a 14 year old or a 17 year old's breasts.


----------



## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

pmyers said:


> They did make lots of fire when she through them in. I figure that was the "proof".


I wonder how much alcohol was in the drink she gave him...


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, yes it is.
> 
> Actor's age is relevant in terms of what they're allowed to do. Character's age is relevant in terms of what they'll want to do. No matter how old the actor is, showing a 14-year-old character's boobs is going to be perceived as icky, and they'll only do it if that's what they're going for.


My buds just said that it would be considered child pornography if a) the character _is portrayed _as being under age, and b) it shows an erotic situation. If an adult pretends to be a teen, it can be child pornography.

So maybe the girl in the tub can pass because it's not implicitly sexual...but Karen in the tub was trying to seduce Frank in Shameless.

Nothing that shows on "R rated" cable is really porn.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

tiassa said:


> OK, if all that Mellisandre needed was a leech's mouth full of the "blood of a king" why couldn't Stannis supply that?





AlphaDelta said:


> So what was the leech spell supposed to do? They cut immediately to Joffrey, but nothing happened to him.


From the shadow demon, we know that the spell draws some sort of life force from the guy, and that Stannis could not survive doing it again. So unless it has something to do with age (which would give Gendry an "advantage" being much younger), then Gendry could not be used to kill all 3 of the usurpers. Perhaps this is little more than a warning shot. Robb, Joffrey, and Balon are not going to die, but get some sort of warning visit. Then Stannis would hope that at least 2 of them will be convinced to join him and he only needs to actually kill one of them.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I'm torn between seeing Joffrey and Balon suffer versus Robb getting the same fate!
> 
> Which one got the penis leech? that one is going to suffer more


If it's Balon, then we'll know penis problems are hereditary.


----------



## squint (Jun 15, 2008)

netringer said:


> My buds just said that it would be considered child pornography if a) the character _is portrayed _as being under age, and b) it shows an erotic situation. If an adult pretends to be a teen, it can be child pornography.


That may be the pre-_Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition_ rule. I seem to remember that being struck down by the Supreme Court. I'm sure the producers are up-to-date on the law, whatever it may be currently.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> With all the T&A we get from this show I think I can rest satisfied if I do not see a 14 year old or a 17 year old's breasts.


:up:

With all the buzz GoT gets and with all of it's sexual scenes, I've wondered for a while how many publicly, religiously uptight people watch this show. I bet it's more than we think.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Why did the white walker want the baby?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bananfish said:


> Why did the white walker want the baby?


Dunno, but we do know they had their deal with Craster for his male offspring, so they definitely like babies for whatever reason...


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

zordude said:


> I was yelling at my TV "Don't forget the dagger you just killed that thing with you idiot!"


You weren't the only one. 

Sorry why would you leave a weapon you might need again? Is it so hard to reach down and pick it up?

Also, good thing it's a magic-ish wonder weapons, because it looks like Samwell stabbed the white walker in the shoulder. Not exactly an ideal killing blow with normal steel.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Dunno, but we do know they had their deal with Craster for his male offspring, so they definitely like babies for whatever reason...


Which doesn't mean they wouldn't take Sam and Gilly too.... We've never seen babies walking through the snow with blue eyes--do they grow up somehow and then become white walkers?



Jonathan_S said:


> You weren't the only one.
> 
> Sorry why would you leave a weapon you might need again? Is it so hard to reach down and pick it up?


This seemed so obvious--I was surprised that they didn't mention it in the recap. Maybe he will go back and get it, or maybe he has more, but I thought Jon or Mormount took most of the bag he found.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Which doesn't mean they wouldn't take Sam and Gilly too.... We've never seen babies walking through the snow with blue eyes--do they grow up somehow and then become white walkers?


Have they ever taken adults? I'm pretty sure they just kill (and transform) adults. But they TAKE babies.

So something's going on there with the babies...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> From the shadow demon, we know that the spell draws some sort of life force from the guy, and that Stannis could not survive doing it again. So unless it has something to do with age (which would give Gendry an "advantage" being much younger), then Gendry could not be used to kill all 3 of the usurpers. Perhaps this is little more than a warning shot. Robb, Joffrey, and Balon are not going to die, but get some sort of warning visit. Then Stannis would hope that at least 2 of them will be convinced to join him and he only needs to actually kill one of them.


Well, she was able to make the baby demon from just...um...male stuff during sex. Imagine what she can make with straight blood, gallons of it to boot!


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Well, she was able to make the baby demon from just...um...male stuff during sex. Imagine what she can make with straight blood, gallons of it to boot!


Well, gallon of it anyway...


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, gallon of it anyway...


She can get more than a gallon if she takes a pint or two every few weeks(?).


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

stellie93 said:


> Which doesn't mean they wouldn't take Sam and Gilly too.... We've never seen babies walking through the snow with blue eyes--do they grow up somehow and then become white walkers?


My guess is the whitewalkers use the life force of the newborn babies to raise their dead army. Since they are babies very little of it has been used on itself..kinda like a full tank of gas.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> You weren't the only one.
> 
> Sorry why would you leave a weapon you might need again? Is it so hard to reach down and pick it up?


Count me in the "grab it, you idiot" crowd.

One thing to add though: Immediately after the white walker's demise, Sam stepped around the white walker shards to grab Gilly and then steered her around them again as they quickly fled. The weapon was shown falling smack dab in the middle of the white walker's remains, so it would be hard to retrieve if you decided you weren't going to touch any white walker bits.

In doing that, I think he was just being his usual fraidy-cat self, but I can't 100% rule out that he doesn't have some knowledge about not touching White Walker bits - we've seen him display some occasional bits of knowledge in the ancient creature area.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Ment said:


> My guess is the whitewalkers use the life force of the newborn babies to raise their dead army. Since they are babies very little of it has been used on itself..kinda like a full tank of gas.


Or they make baby brownies. Yum.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

fmowry said:


> Or they make baby brownies. Yum.


I was at a party once where they slipped us some baby brownies.

Now, THAT was a strange experience...


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, yes it is.
> 
> Actor's age is relevant in terms of what they're allowed to do. Character's age is relevant in terms of what they'll want to do. No matter how old the actor is, showing a 14-year-old character's boobs is going to be perceived as icky, and they'll only do it if that's what they're going for.


How old was Jodie Foster when she filmed The Little Girl Who Lived Down The Lane? She was naked in that one and I think pretty young?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jstkiddn said:


> How old was Jodie Foster when she filmed The Little Girl Who Lived Down The Lane? She was naked in that one and I think pretty young?


That was apparently not her.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I had to laugh at Lady Tyrell's explanation of how the marriage affects who is related to whom how. It highlighted my confusion perfectly.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That was apparently not her.


Really? The only reason that movie came to mind is that I ran across it while channel surfing a few weeks back and I stopped to watch the rest. Granted I wasn't paying the closest of attention but I could have sworn there was one scene where she disrobed, while you could still see her face, and the camera didn't move off of her, although I'm about halfway afraid to google it because no telling what else will pop up.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Her double was her older sister...

She was upset about the nudity because even though it wasn't her, she was afraid people would think it was her. Guess she was right!


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Really!! I never knew that....and Jodie was right! I sure thought it was her. Lol


----------



## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

heySkippy said:


> How old was Brooke Shields when she made Pretty Baby? 12?


Yeah, she was 12. The film was made before the hysteria over child porn, so it's grandfathered. It would be illegal to make it today. She was 14 when she made The Blue Lagoon, which had tons of nudity although she had a body double for those nude scenes.

Add me to those curious about the legal implications of an adult being portrayed as a teen in a sexual situation. Would it really be child porn if a 65-year-old woman is cast as a 12-year-old in a sexual scene? I know that the modern day Puritans now even have animation and CGI being declared child porn but that would seem a stretch.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Bob Coxner said:


> The film was made before the hysteria over child porn, so it's grandfathered. It would be illegal to make it today.


I'm very skeptical of that.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The overtly lascivious mercenary was so over the top that you knew he couldn't possibly stay alive for long.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> The overtly lascivious mercenary was so over the top that you knew he couldn't possibly stay alive for long.


Being rude to Dani does not seem to be a good career move...


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Ment said:


> So now Dany has her army and the gold to fund them...and all she had to do was take a bath.


Wait, where did she get gold to fund them? How Ivan she use the mercenaries gold to pay the mercenaries? Fabiola might be cool with that, but the other 2,000 of them won't.



netringer said:


> So maybe the girl in the tub can pass because it's not implicitly sexual...but Karen in the tub was trying to seduce Frank in Shameless.


But don't forget that "the girl in the tub" had plenty of implicitly sexual scenes in S1. So clearly that theory is not correct.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Wait, where did she get gold to fund them? How Ivan she use the mercenaries gold to pay the mercenaries? Fabiola might be cool with that, but the other 2,000 of them won't.
> 
> But don't forget that "the girl in the tub" had plenty of implicitly sexual scenes in S1. So clearly that theory is not correct.


This is clearly an extremely rich city. They offered her a ton of gold PLUS all the ships she will need to sail away. You would assume they were not spending their last penny on this offer. So Danny should have enough to pay everyone once they sack the city.

I don't know if Dany's age has been mentioned. So, until that happens, people can assume she is 20.


----------



## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

Saw an interesting comment pointing out that prominent in this story were the men who the Stark girls find themselves with, and both are 'Second Sons' as in the title of the episode, Tyrion and the Hound.

And both are actually about as good as they could hope for, though they wouldn't see it that way.


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> We've never seen babies walking through the snow with blue eyes--do they grow up somehow and then become white walkers?


Small legs. Probably can't walk as fast as the others. Got left behind.

They're only taking male babies, correct? Maybe the goal is to prevent them from growing into men. They seem perfectly content letting the female babies grow into women.



Anubys said:


> So Danny should have enough to pay everyone once they sack the city.


Also, hasn't she offered them reward in Westeros once that is conquered as well?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

smbaker said:


> They're only taking male babies, correct? Maybe the goal is to prevent them from growing into men. They seem perfectly content letting the female babies grow into women.


Are you basing that on Craster? Because he's the one who doesn't want male babies around (who would grow up to be competition for the women). So in his case, the Blue-Eyes are just taking what they're offered.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

danterner said:


> I had to laugh at Lady Tyrell's explanation of how the marriage affects who is related to whom how. It highlighted my confusion perfectly.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

No more Khaleessi boobies!



> 'I want to be known for my acting not for my breasts.' "
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...-Thrones-star-rebels-over-topless-scenes.html


Too late, McFarland squeeze.


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

netringer said:


> No more Khaleessi boobies!


I'd rather watch Dany when she leaves than when she appears.


----------



## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

So an article that came out on 5/19 speculated that Emilia Clarke wouldn't do any more nudity, and then that very night she had nudity on screen.

That's some crack reporting.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

zordude said:


> So an article that came out on 5/19 speculated that Emilia Clarke wouldn't do any more nudity, and then that very night she had nudity on screen.
> 
> That's some crack reporting.


Well, any decision she made on or around 5/19 wouldn't affect work she did almost a year ago...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Are we sure it wasn't Jodie Foster's older sister posing as a body double for Dany?


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Bob Coxner said:


> Add me to those curious about the legal implications of an adult being portrayed as a teen in a sexual situation. Would it really be child porn if a 65-year-old woman is cast as a 12-year-old in a sexual scene? I know that the modern day Puritans now even have animation and CGI being declared child porn but that would seem a stretch.


There are two separate principal rationales for barring child nudity:
1) preventing the sexual exploitation of underage children
2) discouraging incitement of sexual fantasies featuring underage children

While casting a 65 year old woman as a 12 year old character would be no problem under the first rationale, it would not necessarily serve the second rationale. Even if it is obvious that the actress is 65 years old, the nudity of a character known by viewers to be 12 years old could encourage some viewers to fantasize sexually about 12 year olds, and consequently, those viewers may be more likely to act upon those fantasies in real life. Or at least that is what those who believe in the second rationale would argue.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Ment said:


> I'd rather watch Dany when she leaves than when she appears.


I guess you'd rather see her going than coming - to each his own. ;-)


----------



## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

zordude said:


> So an article that came out on 5/19 speculated that Emilia Clarke wouldn't do any more nudity, and then that very night she had nudity on screen.
> 
> That's some crack reporting.


The article also notes that the series stars Sean Bean, who hasn't been in it for several years now. I'm not putting a lot of faith in that quality reporting.


----------



## grey ghost (Feb 2, 2010)

Does the cast get an extra $1 everytime they say the C*&t word?? I hate that particular word and I've never heard it more times than I've heard it in this series. I swear I'm not a prude, I just hate that particular word.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

grey ghost said:


> I hate that particular word and I've never heard it more times than I've heard it in this series. I swear I'm not a prude, I just hate that particular word.


I know what you mean. I hate the word "dragon" and they seem to say it so much on this show. Really bums me out. (I hate the word "bum", too, but somehow I cannot resist using it from time to time)


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

john4200 said:


> I know what you mean. I hate the word "dragon" and they seem to say it so much on this show. Really bums me out. (I hate the word "bum", too, but somehow I cannot resist using it from time to time)


If I hear "whitewalker" one more time......


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I know my opinion won't be popular but I could do without all the nudity.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Jstkiddn said:


> I know my opinion won't be popular but I could do without all the nudity.


"Let's just thay it started working..."

http://gawker.com/5902076/snl-explains-the-nudity-in-game-of-thrones


----------



## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

Jstkiddn said:


> I know my opinion won't be popular but I could do without all the nudity.


I prescribe you watch Downtown Abbey to compensate.


----------



## 3D (Oct 9, 2001)

> I know my opinion won't be popular but I could do without all the nudity.
> 
> . . .
> 
> -Jstkiddn


FYP


----------



## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Jstkiddn said:


> I know my opinion won't be popular but I could do without all the nudity.


If I have to keep watching Theon be tortured, I'm going to need some compensatory nudity.


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

Ment said:


> I prescribe you watch Downtown Abbey to compensate.


Lol!


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Marco said:


> If I have to keep watching Theon be tortured, I'm going to need some compensatory nudity.


Careful, or they'll show Lords without d*ks.


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

zordude said:


> So an article that came out on 5/19 speculated that Emilia Clarke wouldn't do any more nudity, and then that very night she had nudity on screen.
> 
> That's some crack reporting.


I see what you did there.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

grey ghost said:


> Does the cast get an extra $1 everytime they say the C*&t word?? I hate that particular word and I've never heard it more times than I've heard it in this series.


Don't ever watch Starz' "Spartacus" series.


----------



## DavidTigerFan (Aug 18, 2001)

netringer said:


> Lords without d*ks.


Name of a band if I ever saw one.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

netringer said:


> Careful, or they'll show Lords without d*ks.


ducks? dreadlocks? daleks?


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

grey ghost said:


> Does the cast get an extra $1 everytime they say the C*&t word?? I hate that particular word and I've never heard it more times than I've heard it in this series. I swear I'm not a prude, I just hate that particular word.


Not a huge fan of the word either, but since it's a mostly English cast, set in a fictional alt-England, and the Brits are known to rather casually toss that word around, I don't find it all that surprising.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

grey ghost said:


> Does the cast get an extra $1 everytime they say the C*&t word?? I hate that particular word and I've never heard it more times than I've heard it in this series. I swear I'm not a prude, I just hate that particular word.


I don't mind hearing it in the way it is used in the context of the show, but yes, it is a bit jarring. It's really the only word in the English language that I simply will not allow myself to use, in any context whatsoever. Too dangerous ... if that was even a teensy bit a part of my vocabulary, there would be an unjustifiable risk of having too much to drink and saying something really really really regrettable.

[Actually, I just realized there are two other words I won't allow myself to use, but for very different reasons - (1) the nickname of the Anaheim hockey team, and (2) the word coined by Twitter for a message sent on their system.]


----------



## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

What is the phrase that Jorah Mormont keeps saying?


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Bananfish said:


> Count me in the "grab it, you idiot" crowd.
> 
> One thing to add though: Immediately after the white walker's demise, Sam stepped around the white walker shards to grab Gilly and then steered her around them again as they quickly fled. The weapon was shown falling smack dab in the middle of the white walker's remains, so it would be hard to retrieve if you decided you weren't going to touch any white walker bits.
> 
> In doing that, I think he was just being his usual fraidy-cat self, but I can't 100% rule out that he doesn't have some knowledge about not touching White Walker bits - we've seen him display some occasional bits of knowledge in the ancient creature area.


And ... It's not like Sam had time to analyze the situation ... Or think at all with all those creepy crows cawing! My first thought might be something like "that spot right under their shoulder is their Achilles Heel! I'm aiming for tat next time. Please don't let there be a next time .....

tta


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> I know my opinion won't be popular but I could do without all the nudity.


Or at least without all the talk of nudity in this thread. I haven't counted it up, but I swear this thread has to be greater than 50% talk of boobs, who shows boobs, who won't show boobs because of age, who showed boobs in what totally unrelated movie at what age, whose boobs those actually were in said movie, etc.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

LordKronos said:


> Or at least without all the talk of nudity in this thread. I haven't counted it up, but I swear this thread has to be greater than 50% talk of boobs, who shows boobs, who won't show boobs because of age, who showed boobs in what totally unrelated movie at what age, whose boobs those actually were in said movie, etc.


I could really do without the swearing in your post. Also, I don't care for such overuse of the word "who" outside of a Doctor Who thread.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Ment said:


> Bad for everyone she crosses.  I liked her character more in previous seasons, now she is reduced to sniping.


I think this is actually on purpose: she used to be the queen: one of the most powerful people in the kingdom. She engineered, almost singlehandedly, her son's ascent to the throne. Now she's just cast aside and relatively powerless.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

madscientist said:


> I think this is actually on purpose: she used to be the queen: one of the most powerful people in the kingdom. She engineered, almost singlehandedly, her son's ascent to the throne. Now she's just cast aside and relatively powerless.


Plus, we all know she's not as smart as she thinks she is. But still the most beautiful woman in all of Westoros


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

madscientist said:


> I think this is actually on purpose: she used to be the queen: one of the most powerful people in the kingdom. She engineered, almost singlehandedly, her son's ascent to the throne. Now she's just cast aside and relatively powerless.


Yes, I think Cersei completely over estimated how much control she would have over Joffrey and the way Margery is able to mold him to her point of view has caught her totally off guard.


----------



## sburnside1 (Jan 28, 2009)

Jeeters said:


> Don't ever watch Starz' "Spartacus" series.


Jupiter's ****!


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


> I could really do without the swearing in your post. Also, I don't care for such overuse of the word "who" outside of a Doctor Who thread.


Who should care what bloody words you don't like?


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

netringer said:


> Who should care what bloody words you don't like?


I could do without the use of the word "bloody".


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zordude said:


> So an article that came out on 5/19 speculated that Emilia Clarke wouldn't do any more nudity, and then that very night she had nudity on screen.
> 
> That's some crack reporting.


Even more ironic is the fact that the article talks about how one cast member (Clarke) doesn't want to do nudity yet has done more than anyone else on the show, and the the cast member quoted (Oona Chaplin) claims she'd love to do nudity and has no problem with it, yet she's only showed her backside and very strategically avoided showing anything else.


----------



## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Does everyone just assume the actress has a whole lot of "say" over what gets filmed and/or makes it to the final cut? I would guess details like who decides what are covered in their contracts and it's the director who decides who shows what and when and how often.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

heySkippy said:


> Does everyone just assume the actress has a whole lot of "say" over what gets filmed and/or makes it to the final cut? I would guess details like who decides what are covered in their contracts and it's the director who decides who shows what and when and how often.


I wonder if some of the contracts may actually specify bonuses or higher pay or whatever for showing certain parts of the body, and the producers might be involved in the decision depending on how expensive it is to show various parts.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Even more ironic is the fact that the article talks about how one cast member (Clarke) doesn't want to do nudity yet has done more than anyone else on the show, and the the cast member quoted (Oona Chaplin) claims she'd love to do nudity and has no problem with it, yet she's only showed her backside and very strategically avoided showing anything else.


Emilia hasn't been fully nude since S1E1 (hot tub scene). I disagree with the statement that she has done more nudity than any other cast member. That title would have to go to Ros, wouldn't it? And I would swear that Oona has indeed showed her front side (but not as much as her backside). Not that I keep track of these things. I'm mostly interested in the dragons and whatnot.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

I wish we could see more dragons. I would gladly trade in T&A for dragons, but somehow I bet the T&A is cheaper.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Shaunnick said:


> I wish we could see more dragons. I would gladly trade in T&A for dragons, but somehow I bet the T&A is cheaper.


*Nude* dragons FTW!


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> I wish we could see more dragons. I would gladly trade in T&A for dragons, but somehow I bet the T&A is cheaper.


I actually don't really care for the dragons. I just didn't want to sound like I only watch for T&A, when that is only partially why I watch.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> Does everyone just assume the actress has a whole lot of "say" over what gets filmed and/or makes it to the final cut? I would guess details like who decides what are covered in their contracts and it's the director who decides who shows what and when and how often.


I don't know how much "say" an actor/actress has. But when you've got two naked women standing next to each other (last week's Theon scene), and one is freely showing everything and one is very conspicuously covering herself, then you have to wonder if the one actress is only comfortable showing her breasts while the other was comfortable showing everything, and that's why it was staged that way.

Similarly, in last week's scene with Robb and Talisa, her backside was shown rather extensively, but they were very careful not to show her breasts, including strategically placing her arm in the way when she turned over.

Given the freedom with which nudity is shown on this show, I have to assume it's not the director being so particular about when something is strategically placed or staged in order to avoid showing something. So I have to assume that it's up to the actor/actress.



tivoboyjr said:


> Emilia hasn't been fully nude since S1E1 (hot tub scene). I disagree with the statement that she has done more nudity than any other cast member. That title would have to go to Ros, wouldn't it? And I would swear that Oona has indeed showed her front side (but not as much as her backside). Not that I keep track of these things. I'm mostly interested in the dragons and whatnot.


Maybe I'm misremembering, but I'm pretty sure we saw as much of Emilia in the most recent episode as we did in the pilot.


----------



## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> Emilia hasn't been fully nude since S1E1 (hot tub scene). I disagree with the statement that she has done more nudity than any other cast member. That title would have to go to Ros, wouldn't it? And I would swear that Oona has indeed showed her front side (but not as much as her backside). Not that I keep track of these things. I'm mostly interested in the dragons and whatnot.


I don't care about these things at all, in fact, I don't even notice them.

But I'm pretty sure that Dany was fully nude when coming out of the fire with the dragons at the end of S1, was she not?

Also, Talisa showed her front side (at least topless) in the scene when she and Robb first get it on.

But again, I don't even really notice these things. I much prefer the dragons and whatnot.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I don't know how much "say" an actor/actress has. But when you've got two naked women standing next to each other (last week's Theon scene), and one is freely showing everything and one is very conspicuously covering herself, then you have to wonder if the one actress is only comfortable showing her breasts while the other was comfortable showing everything, and that's why it was staged that way.
> 
> Similarly, in last week's scene with Robb and Talisa, her backside was shown rather extensively, but they were very careful not to show her breasts, including strategically placing her arm in the way when she turned over.
> 
> ...


I'm sure that the actors have it spelled out in great detail in their contracts. Maybe even as the number of scenes, etc.

The way it works is that each shoot is planned out in detail with lighting and blocking, etc, so that it will be no accident as to what get exposed to the camera. (Rosie joked when Sharon Stone claimed that she had no idea her cooch was going to show in Fatal Instinct. "You might have guessed when they held the light meter under your skirt!")

Steven Toblowski said the men sign a separate contract before the shooting of each scene that no part of the man will enter her. That's to cover the producers from getting sued if things et out of hand.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Can we all agree on no Samwell boobage?


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

By trying to withdraw from appearing nude, Emilia is admitting she went against her own morality by doing so before - that makes me lose respect for her far more than her nudity. There's nothing inherently amoral about being nude, but it is definitely amoral to violate your own beliefs to achieve fame or money - that's basically the definition of a whore.

So congratulations, Emilia - now that you have gone from anonymity to a bankable actress through a part you would not gotten if you had not agreed to appear nude, you can go back to honoring your own morality now.


----------



## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> I don't care about these things at all, in fact, I don't even notice them.
> 
> But I'm pretty sure that Dany was fully nude when coming out of the fire with the dragons at the end of S1, was she not?
> 
> ...


With Dany, I only count "fully nude" as showing that glorious booty, and the last time I got a good look at it was the hot tub scene in S1E1. But really, I'm so focused on the business of the small council that I hardly notice anything else. Why doesn't Joffrey go to the meetings?? What's his problem? What if they don't have a quorum?!? Does he even submit a proxy???


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

tivoboyjr said:


> ... But really, I'm so focused on the business of the small council that I hardly notice anything else. Why doesn't Joffrey go to the meetings?? What's his problem? What if they don't have a quorum?!? Does he even submit a proxy???


 His Grace already told The Hand! He's been busy and he doesn't want to climb all of those stairs to The Hand's tower.


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Similarly, in last week's scene with Robb and Talisa, her backside was shown rather extensively, but they were very careful not to show her breasts, including strategically placing her arm in the way when she turned over.
> 
> Given the freedom with which nudity is shown on this show, I have to assume it's not the director being so particular about when something is strategically placed or staged in order to avoid showing something. So I have to assume that it's up to the actor/actress.


It's possible that it is just the director's artistic choice. I loved the way Oona was staged in that scene - she has an absolutely delectable rump and by not showing any other naughty bits, it really was the star of that scene. (And who knows, maybe she's a mangy mess around the corner.)


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

netringer said:


> His Grace already told The Hand! He's been busy and he doesn't want to climb all of those stairs to The Hand's tower.


And The Hand told His Grace that he would make sure to include him from now on .... "when necessary"!


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

DreadPirateRob said:


> But I'm pretty sure that Dany was fully nude when coming out of the fire with the dragons at the end of S1, was she not?


No, in fact that was the first instance when I really thought that maybe she didn't want to do full frontal.

The dragon was covering her, she just happened to be holding it "down there" in her hand. They CGI'ed privacy for her.

She was also not full frontal in the bath with her brother in season 1.

Now as I've said before, this isn't just whining about who's what sort of naked when. We have a TV series where some actors show all, quite frequently, while others show partial, the same partial, and still others show nothing at all. If it were some show some in different ways at different times it wouldn't be noticeable, but instead we have scenes like last week with one girl basically saying "look at my whole body" with the other one saying simultaneously "not so fast, I'm covering myself".

It takes me out of the show completely and underscores the fact that they're both actresses rather than characters. It's the same as complaining about a bad accent, or bad acting. If you're going to be that obvious about who will and won't show what, how about no nudity at all?

Interesting notes about Emilia... if she wants to back out of nudity and won't do it, that's fine. But why is she then going nude onstage in a play? Wouldn't her refusal still apply?

Greg


----------



## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

gchance said:


> No, in fact that was the first instance when I really thought that maybe she didn't want to do full frontal.
> 
> The dragon was covering her, she just happened to be holding it "down there" in her hand. They CGI'ed privacy for her.
> 
> ...


I hate to contribute to the nudity conversation! But, stage nudity doesn't land you on Mr. Skin or have men flogging their dragons. It doesn't follow you around the rest of your life, just waiting to mess up your grandson's head.


----------



## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

john4200 said:


> *Nude* dragons FTW!


haven't all the dragons so far been nude?


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

dianebrat said:


> haven't all the dragons so far been nude?


But they are juvenile, so they did not show any of the interesting bits (contract issues? animal protection laws?). We need nude _adult_ dragons.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Hopefully we can move past this nude talk.

Oh look, it's GoT Facebook time!

http://www.happyplace.com/24039/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-8

ETA: Uh, be careful when viewing, this one is more NSFW than usual. Lots of language and a wooden object in the shape of a body part you may not want your kids to see.


----------



## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Shaunnick said:


> Hopefully we can move past this nude talk.
> 
> Oh look, it's GoT Facebook time!
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting, Shaunnick!! Just what I needed to brighten this dreary day! Loved Shae, Tyrion AND Sansa liking the sheets photo. 

tta


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> Oh look, it's GoT Facebook time!
> 
> http://www.happyplace.com/24039/game-of-thrones-facebook-recap-season-3-episode-8


Another thanks for linking. These are as much fun as the eps themselves!


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Nudity, schmudity. The actress playing Shae did a lot of hardcore porn in her younger days.


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Nudity, schmudity. The actress playing Shae did a lot of hardcore porn in her younger days.


So are you saying her character isn't much of a stretch?


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Love those facebook recaps . . . 
"Letting you die in your sleep is practically 'I love you' in Cersei-speak"
"We can't hear you say you are 14 and then watch you undress. Not even on HBO"


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

What does the book say about wedding night for a 14-year-old girl? If the world is like Medieval Europe, then it's perfectly acceptable. What's Tyrion worried about then? It's not like he's committing statutory rape.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

dtle said:


> What does the book say about wedding night for a 14-year-old girl? If the world is like Medieval Europe, then it's perfectly acceptable. What's Tyrion worried about then? It's not like he's committing statutory rape.


He's a decent guy and he thinks he would be having sex with a child. Makes sense to me!

Edited to add: he also knows she is being forced to do that. He is decent enough to not want to. I guess he doesn't have a problem with it if she gives consent. But the point remains.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

dtle said:


> What does the book say about wedding night for a 14-year-old girl? If the world is like Medieval Europe, then it's perfectly acceptable. What's Tyrion worried about then? It's not like he's committing statutory rape.





Spoiler



The two child brides in the books (Daenerys and Sansa) had a pretty easy time. In the TV show Dany is practically pushed down on all fours and forced to take it from Drogo. In the books it was a much more drawn out affair where Drogo took his time and encouraged Dany to lead what happened next. It was a very sincere and sweet move by Drogo to put Dany at ease and despite being forced to marry a barbarian she started to fall in love with him.

Sansa in fact gets naked on her wedding night and 'assumes the position" as she has been trained to do by her septa (whatever her name was) and Tyrion asks her to turn around. He too is naked and delivers the same quote from the show that he won't take her unless she wants him to. She gives the same reply about not ever wanting to and they dress and that's it.


----------



## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

tiassa said:


> Love those facebook recaps . . .
> "Letting you die in your sleep is practically 'I love you' in Cersei-speak"
> "We can't hear you say you are 14 and then watch you undress. Not even on HBO"


And the likes after can be good too. The 2nd quote had ":up: Millions of Viewers like this and nervously exhale"


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Anubys said:


> He's a decent guy and he thinks he would be having sex with a child. Makes sense to me!
> 
> Edited to add: he also knows she is being forced to do that. He is decent enough to not want to. I guess he doesn't have a problem with it if she gives consent. But the point remains.


Yeah, that's how I see it, especially the consent thing. Obviously, there's no problem with boffing a 14 y/o as far as society goes, or Tywin wouldn't have set it up.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

dtle said:


> What does the book say about wedding night for a 14-year-old girl? If the world is like Medieval Europe, then it's perfectly acceptable. What's Tyrion worried about then? It's not like he's committing statutory rape.


In the books, she's just shy of her 13th birthday. She's 12 years old!

So making her 14 for the TV series was a nod to our more refined instincts.... 



> "How old are you, Sansa?" asked Tyrion, after a moment.
> 
> "Thirteen," she said, "when the moon turns."
> 
> ...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Sansa can be so cold. When he's nice enough to tell her he won't force her and she doesn't have to do anything until she's ready--she could just say thank you and let it go at that. NOOOO she has to point out that she will probably never be ready. 
I would really love to see her come to appreciate what a sweet guy Tyrion is, but I can't see it happening.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> Sansa can be so cold. When he's nice enough to tell her he won't force her and she doesn't have to do anything until she's ready--she could just say thank you and let it go at that. NOOOO she has to point out that she will probably never be ready.
> I would really love to see her come to appreciate what a sweet guy Tyrion is, but I can't see it happening.


Even in our society, and especially with a girl who dreamed of princes and happily ever afters, someone like him would be rejected out of hand.

In the brutal society of Westoros, where even his family doesn't look beyond his physical stature, I can hardly blame Sansa for what she's said and how she feels. This is just about as bad a nightmare as you could have, barring Tyrion being a monster.


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Even in our society, and especially with a girl who dreamed of princes and happily ever afters, someone like him would be rejected out of hand.
> 
> In the brutal society of Westoros, where even his family doesn't look beyond his physical stature, I can hardly blame Sansa for what she's said and how she feels. This is just about as bad a nightmare as you could have, barring Tyrion being a monster.


In the books he was even more hideous from the Battle of the Blackwater. They did a TV version of his injuries.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jehma said:


> In the books he was even more hideous from the Battle of the Blackwater. They did a TV version of his injuries.


He was also spectacularly ugly to begin with. Peter Dinklage, of course...not so much.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ok, he's super ugly--but this is the girl who was supposed to marry Joffrey. He's not going to beat her or kill her or even force her to sleep with him, which most men of Westeros would have done in a minute. She could be nicer to him, is all I'm saying.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Ok, he's super ugly--but this is the girl who was supposed to marry Joffrey. He's not going to beat her or kill her or even force her to sleep with him, which most men of Westeros would have done in a minute. She could be nicer to him, is all I'm saying.


Do you even WATCH this show? 

(Sansa has never been portrayed as the kindest, most sensitive of people. She's generally been portrayed as a clueless social climber who only wants to marry the handsome prince, and is only somewhat bothered about who gets hurt or killed along the way. When Joffrey didn't work out, she thought she would "settle" for Loras. I doubt her life lessons have accumulated to the point where a disfigured dwarf would be an acceptable alternative...even a disfigured dwarf as good-looking at Peter Dinklage.)


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Sansa can be so cold. When he's nice enough to tell her he won't force her and she doesn't have to do anything until she's ready--she could just say thank you and let it go at that. NOOOO she has to point out that she will probably never be ready.


I guess I heard it differently than the rest of you. Tyrion says he won't force her before she's ready, and she says "what if I'm never ready?" I didn't hear it as "I won't ever be ready, you ugly dwarf!", but more as "ok, you say you will let me decide, but is that just bravado or do you really mean it? Will you get tired of waiting if I'm not ready in what you consider a reasonable amount of time?"

But maybe I'm just giving Sansa too much benefit of the doubt.

Comment on Sansa's character in the books:


Spoiler



The book Sansa is much more spoiled and less likeable than the TV show Sansa. Of course 2 years can make a huge difference in emotional maturity as well. And as others have mentioned, the book Tyrion is heavily disfigured from birth, even before the Blackwater battle.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Yeah, I know Sansa is pretty shallow, especially before she gets to the big city. But being engaged to Joffrey is a big life lesson. And so is having no family or anyone looking out for you.

I think, in the book,


Spoiler



they made it look like Sansa knew Tyrion was behind her trying to put that cape on her, and just refused to kneel. At least on tv it looked more like she wasn't aware that he didn't have his stool.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> Yeah, I know Sansa is pretty shallow, especially before she gets to the big city. But being engaged to Joffrey is a big life lesson. And so is having no family or anyone looking out for you.


It seems the only life lesson she's learned is "Joffrey isn't the beautiful prince for me. _Loras _is! But those meanies are making me marry the ugly dwarf instead."

I have seen very little if any basic human decency or empathy from her. She is a vain, silly, self-absorbed child, who thinks that the massive calamities that have surrounded her are personal problems, and hasn't clued in at all that _almost everybody is suffering_, and most of them in ways that make her sheltered little life look like a picnic.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Some minor observations about the last 2 episodes (I just finished a third viewing)

1. Tywin paused as he entered the throne room to talk to Joffrey. The pause let the Kingsguard know that they have walked as far as allowed. Subtle, but very nicely done.

2. As Tywin left, he had a smirk on his face. He enjoyed putting Joffrey down and making him squirm.

3. As far as the blonde covering her naughty bits, there is a simple reason: she was completely shaved. I don't know why, but almost all shows are loath to show that.

4. Sansa asking Tyrion "what if I never want you to" was not her just being spoiled or clueless. She was testing Tyrion. For the hopeless romantics who want Sansa to grow to love and appreciate Tyrion, there is a glimmer of hope (I'm not one of them).


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Anubys said:


> 3. As far as the blonde covering her naughty bits, there is a simple reason: she was completely shaved. I don't know why, but almost all shows are loath to show that.


No, that is not the reason, because there is a simple solution to that, frequently used in just this sort of situation.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Anubys said:


> SFor the hopeless romantics who want Sansa to grow to love and appreciate Tyrion


Ugh! Perish the thought. Tyrion deserves better.

Of course he might make a good Lord of Winterfell.


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

john4200 said:


> No, that is not the reason, because there is a simple solution to that, frequently used in just this sort of situation.


Cat beard?


----------



## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

I'm proud to be a merkin...


----------



## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

I just realized......no new GoT tonight?! 

Very sad.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> I just realized......no new GoT tonight?!
> 
> Very sad.


and only 2 episodes left!


----------



## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

Anubys said:


> and only 2 episodes left!


So why broadcast one over a holiday weekend?



danterner said:


> I'm proud to be a merkin...


Trivia question: The President of the US in the movie Dr. Strangelove is named "Merkin Muffley" -- do you know what a Muffley is?


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

tiassa said:


> Trivia question: The President of the US in the movie Dr. Strangelove is named "Merkin Muffley" -- do you know what a Muffley is?


No. Neither does Google.

I know what Bull Turgedson and BatGuano is.


----------



## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

netringer said:


> No. Neither does Google.


Unlike 'merkin', 'muffley' is not a real word, just very (very) obscure slang (and a real surname). You can find a short entry on it in the Urban Dictionary.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Unlike 'merkin', 'muffley' is not a real word, just very (very) obscure slang (and a real surname). You can find a short entry on it in the Urban Dictionary.


Dr. Strangelove is based on a novel named "Red Alert" that I was never able to find (pre Internet...hmmmmmmm)
Oh! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Southern#Dr._Strangelove
I thought it said on my Dr. Strangelove movie poster that the book was by Terry Southern. It says "by Peter George."

Shucks. http://www.amazon.com/Red-Alert-Pet...2580&sr=1-3&keywords="red+alert"+peter+george

Anyway I wonder how much was in the book.


----------



## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Jstkiddn said:


> I just realized......no new GoT tonight?!
> 
> Very sad.





Anubys said:


> and only 2 episodes left!


Ack! I've already got a bad case of GoT withdrawal after just one week. How can I survive the long summer/fall/winter!!


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

Jstkiddn said:


> I just realized......no new GoT tonight?!
> 
> Very sad.


The first two seasons had new episodes over the Memorial Day weekend. They were both spectacular episodes, and had bad ratings, compared with others. HBO decided to wait out a week this season.


----------

