# WD DVR Expander on Roamio



## VBHS1999 (Nov 17, 2014)

I have been using a Western Digital My Book AV DVR Expander on my Tivo Premier XL and TiVo Premier.

Today, I purchased a new TiVo Roamio Pro. Software ver 20.4.4a.
When I go to setup the external storage, it tells me it is not supported.
As I mentioned, this drive was working fine on another TiVo. I still have the Premier running with another of the exact model of this drive.

The expander drive I have is: WDBABT0010HBK-NESN
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Expander-eSATA-External-Drive/dp/B003MVZ60S

I called TiVo today and they said the drive I have is not supported. Funny, the box says it is TiVo compatible and it is the same one they are selling on their website.

The person I talked to said there was nothing they could do to make it work. They took my info and said they would replay the message to a department named AES (I think).

This model is the same one from Best Buy and Amazon.

Can anyone help me figure out why this is not working?
And, why would it and the other TiVo I have work fine with this, just not the Roamio?

Thanks,
Kevin


----------



## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

Edited my original guess - it was wrong! Seems the problem was solved.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

With 3TB of storage I never even considered adding external storage. I didn't think it could be done.

The instructions here says it can. Did you follow these?

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/280


----------



## VBHS1999 (Nov 17, 2014)

So, let my TiVo sit , then tried again after a few hours.
Then it magically worked.

My TiVo has a 3 TB internal drive and a 1 TB external. Total 4 TB.

I have seen on the Internet a website selling TiVos with a 4 TB internal and a 4 TB external, for a total of 8 TB! Pretty cool, but I don't want to open my TiVo and void the warranty, since I have 4 years of coverage through where I bought it for hardware failures.


----------



## rsnaider (Apr 25, 2002)

I had to reboot mine to have it detect the Expander, but as you see it does work.


----------



## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

I have that expander on a basic and it definitely works.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

WD has some early "Black Friday/Cyber Monday" sales going on, for those on their mailing list. Let me know if these links work, or not, for anybody else. The 1TB WD My Book AV DVR Expander is $69.99, with free shipping & extended 60-day return period, using promo code WDCYBERSALE (through online WD store only), through Dec. 1st.

http://archives.subscribermail.com/msg/da64997352284be6aa9beb6f30de375e.htm

http://store.westerndigital.com/store/wdus/ContentTheme/pbPage.Promotions_US_2nd


----------



## philt56 (Aug 22, 2008)

I have had a TiVo expander fail and the similar external wd drive sold for PCs also fail. The drive itself doesn't 'fail but the circuit board that provides the FireWire port fails. I was hoping to be able to put the drive in a new case but was told that wasn't possible by weakness.

Anyways be aware that if the external fails you lose everything because RAID splits files across both drives.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

philt56 said:


> I have had a TiVo expander fail and the similar external wd drive sold for PCs also fail. The drive itself doesn't 'fail but the circuit board that provides the FireWire port fails. I was hoping to be able to put the drive in a new case but was told that wasn't possible by weakness.
> 
> Anyways be aware that if the external fails you lose everything because RAID splits files across both drives.


The fact that the recordings are "spanned" or as some say "split" between drives does not make it RAID. It is not RAID, in any way, shape, or form. The closest possible comparison to anything, is MS Dynamic volumes, making multiple drives look like, and act like, one large drive. Even that has it's flaws, as a comparison.

Greater than 95% of the time, all that is lost is every recording made since the expander was added, since TiVo was forced to add insurance that nobody could ever find a way to extract content from an external drive.

That could constitute "losing everything", if you are not a show hoarder, who adds one after filling up the internal, being unwilling to make space there. But, most cases of people "losing everything" is more about how they go about things at the time of a "failure".

*All hard drives fail, period.* It can happen with or without any warning, at any time, in any number of ways. There is no debate to be had on this (specific segment of the post). *Any data placed on any hard drive, which is not backed-up (or able to be backed up), is at risk, up to and including "losing everything".*

I'm not advocating against an internal upgrade, for those willing and able to do it that way, and willing to assume the risks that involves (which there are no shortages of, but I don't feel like typing out). There will always be people who won't open their TiVo, and external expander drives are the only way they will go.

Here's food for thought, from another thread:


nooneuknow said:


> While it seems like everybody posting in the S3/HD/Premiere threads has experienced a failure (or talks like they have) of the external expander drives (the TiVo approved ones, the most), or will rant about points of failure, it sure never stopped weaknees from selling dual-drive insane capacity units, and I don't hear about those failing very often.
> 
> At the same time that external expander drives are still being slammed in S3/HD/S4 threads, people are migrating their several year old ones from their old TiVos, to their Roamios (losing the content, of course).
> 
> ...


----------



## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

I have a lot of experience with external drives. A WD 500GB My DVR Expander, 2008 model had the enclosure die in 2012, the drive was moved to a PC Rosewill enclosure. Same vintage 1TB version connected to a TiVoHD in 2009 is still working, daily use for over 5 years now. Same vintage 500GB purchased used in 2010 that sat unused for a couple of years replaced the drive with failed enclosure in 2012, it is still working great.

Even though my results haven't been terrible, I will go with a single internal HD for all future upgrades to TiVos without warranty. If I ever buy a new TiVo with warranty, I will probably wait until the warranty expires before upgrade. I understand the argument the violation of warranty terms can be hidden and not disclosed but I won't do that.

I don't know if the newer models are better although I have read that may be true.


----------



## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

From what TiVo tech support told me during an extended troubleshooting call, I was told that TiVo scatters a recording across both the internal hard drive and expander drive in a 10 second alternating pattern.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Chris Gerhard said:


> I have a lot of experience with external drives. A WD 500GB My DVR Expander, 2008 model had the enclosure die in 2012, the drive was moved to a PC Rosewill enclosure. Same vintage 1TB version connected to a TiVoHD in 2009 is still working, daily use for over 5 years now. Same vintage 500GB purchased used in 2010 that sat unused for a couple of years replaced the drive with failed enclosure in 2012, it is still working great.
> 
> Even though my results haven't been terrible, I will go with a single internal HD for all future upgrades to TiVos without warranty. If I ever buy a new TiVo with warranty, I will probably wait until the warranty expires before upgrade. I understand the argument the violation of warranty terms can be hidden and not disclosed but I won't do that.
> 
> I don't know if the newer models are better although I have read that may be true.


This post sums it up pretty well. The ($5?) WD My DVR Expander enclosure fails often, but the $30 eSATA enclosures generally don't.

I don't like eSATA, period, because:

- Its power can accidentally be unplugged separately from the Tivo at any time, causing interruptions;
- Its eSATA cable could be accidentally unplugged at any time, causing data corruption and interruptions;
- It's more subject to being moved around especially while powered on.

The first two items will temporarily halt your Tivo's recordings, and there will be up to six of them with a Roamio. The third item will destroy a hard drive. Hard drives are very sensitive and absolutely hate to be moved, especially while powered on. A hard drive is much better protected inside the Tivo than it is with an external enclosure.


----------



## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

nooneuknow said:


> Greater than 95% of the time, all that is lost is every recording made since the expander was added, since TiVo was forced to add insurance that nobody could ever find a way to extract content from an external drive.


It is interesting that everybody does it differently.

The FIOS DVR fills up the external hard drive first, then switches to use the internal drive for recordings once the external one is full. The content can only be viewed on that DVR, but multiple external hard drives can be used with the DVR without powering it down -- there is a menu command to "eject" the eSATA drive safely.

I believe Dish does the same thing, but you can also move the hard drive to another one of your DVRs and watch the content.

DirecTV completely disables the internal hard drive when it detects an eSATA drive. The eSATA drive's contents can only be viewed on that DVR. To view the contents on the internal drive, you have to reboot with the eSATA disconnected.

I don't think Tivo intentionally scatters the recordings across the two drives for copyright reasons, given that Dish and FIOS are allowed to use their implementations. I think Tivo just took the easy way out and treated both drives as one large drive. At least it wasn't as bad as DirecTV's implementation.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

BobCamp1 said:


> It is interesting that everybody does it differently.
> 
> The FIOS DVR fills up the external hard drive first, then switches to use the internal drive for recordings once the external one is full. The content can only be viewed on that DVR, but multiple external hard drives can be used with the DVR without powering it down -- there is a menu command to "eject" the eSATA drive safely.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't you agree that TiVos with eSATA pretty much came out before all (or most of) the other "comparisons" you listed?

TiVo, as the retail product it was, back when they first added eSATA, did not get to do anything without scrutiny by MSOs and content owners.

Once TiVo figured out a way to satisfy cablelabs, MSOs, and content owners, by whatever name you want to call the method, TiVo was pretty much stuck using that method. Then, all the other players (especially MSO ones) came along and made it more commonplace, and were not required to do it the way TiVo came up with. Later came the OTA DVRs that only had an external drive.

There was a DVR reviewed on ZNF, that it was discovered did not even encrypt the contents of the internal drive. The company that made it (that should have known better), claimed "How were we to expect anybody would open it up and extract the contents?". Since it had barely been on the market long at all, the company was able to fix the problem, and add encryption.

All the flaming hoops TiVo had to jump through, just to offer eSATA/external drive support, so early in the DVR game, and you make comparisons to how MSO boxes do things. Sorry, but :down: , if you felt that was an apples-to-apples comparison, or even close.


----------



## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

nooneuknow said:


> Wouldn't you agree that TiVos with eSATA pretty much came out before all (or most of) the other "comparisons" you listed?
> 
> TiVo, as the retail product it was, back when they first added eSATA, did not get to do anything without scrutiny by MSOs and content owners.
> 
> ...


I think each DVR maker and/or MVPD has to get their external HDD approved by each content owner, but also because I think each maker and MVPD envisions a different implantation, but then that implementation requires some unique restrictions. Also, each maker and MVPD has to design an external solution that does not violate patents others use for their external HDD solutions.

TiVo's implementation is good enough, from their point of view, and while TiVo could implement some enhancements and even a new implantation, I don't think TiVo wants to spend the time or money on R&R nor have to get it approved from all those blood sucking content owners all over again. I think TiVo's external HDD solution is what it is and is good enough because the point was to ADD capacity, not protect it from a failing HDD, and when an external HDD dies, well that is the same as if an internal HDD dies: all the content is lost (Of course with TiVo only the content SINCE the external HDD was added.

For clarity, Dish has two different implementations for external HDD:

1. As archival for DVR's with internal HDD: Recodings occur on the internal HDD ONLY. However, one can move content from the internal to the external HDD to make room form more recordings on the internal HDD. All content on the external HDD can be played back on ANY capable DVR on the subscribers account with full trick-pay etc. as if it were on the internal HDD. Further, the content can also be moved BACK to any of the capable DVR's INTERNAL HDD on the subscribers account, but a total of no more than 3 moves. Content is on the external HDD's indefinitely (or forever or as long the the HDD functions). Also, there is no limit to the number of HDD's one can use for archival and playback. So, an individual can have one HDD with his TV comedies, another with horror movies, another than is the wife's content, another that is kids content, on and on and. . . they can have 100 HDD's with content and it will playback or move on any capable DVR on the subscribers account.

2. As the recording HDD: For certain model STB's that can operate as a NON-DVR unit with no internal HDD, but have the capability to function as a DVR by simply connecting an external HDD. However, that external HDD is used as the units' recording HDD up to approved size. No archival implementation for these boxes. Only DVR recording functions for these external HDD's.

I think Dish and TiVo offered external HDD about the same time, but DirecTV and others soon followed with cable Cos coming last to the party, I think.

While I think TiVo's implementation does the job, the one thing about TiVo's was that one could upgrade the internal HDD, the more elegant solution if one wants more recording capacity, but not everyone is a techie. However, overall, I think Dish's implementation as archival and playback is the best. It is really great to almost NEVER lose your recordings and save ones you want to keep. Also, it is an easy way to transfer recordings when one has to have the DVR exchanged or is upgrading to a newer DVR. If the DVR starts acting funny, you can start the transfer of your recordings NOW before the the internal HDD dies. Your recordings aren't lost and it does not require a PC. Anyone of any skill level can do it, and I know people who just shudder at how to save/move/transfer programs on a TiVo and its process.

But if people like the external HDD for a TiVo, then good for them. At least TiVo has a solution, and a good one for the many non-techies.


----------



## JWhites (May 15, 2013)

BobCamp1 said:


> It is interesting that everybody does it differently.
> 
> The FIOS DVR fills up the external hard drive first, then switches to use the internal drive for recordings once the external one is full. The content can only be viewed on that DVR, but multiple external hard drives can be used with the DVR without powering it down -- there is a menu command to "eject" the eSATA drive safely.


That's more of a Motorola method. Comcast areas that use Motorola can do the same thing, in an archive style. Cisco/Scientific Altanta on the other hand stores a full recording on either the internal or external drive based on the current available capacity at the time.


----------

