# Roamio Deleting Recordings



## bellbm (Dec 16, 2003)

Yesterday Afternoon, my DVR was 92% full, then I noticed a little later it was 82% full. I looked in the recently deleted folder, there were no recordings. Last night before went to bed, after watching some shows, it was 78%. when I woke up this morning, it was 68%.

What could be causing this?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

bellbm said:


> Yesterday Afternoon, my DVR was 92% full, then I noticed a little later it was 82% full. I looked in the recently deleted folder, there were no recordings. Last night before went to bed, after watching some shows, it was 78%. when I woke up this morning, it was 68%.
> 
> What could be causing this?


Its making space for future recordings. If your recently deleted is empty, that is what is going on. Do you use KUID for some series? Time to consider a drive upgrade?


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## bellbm (Dec 16, 2003)

No. It wouldn't need that much space.


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## dbattaglia001 (Feb 9, 2003)

Try going into recently deleted folder and try manually permanently deleting shows and make sure they go away. Sometimes they won't disappear and you have to reboot tivo and try deleting again. This usually works for me. If you had long, padded sports programs that don't delete that could be the cause of your issue.


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## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

I don't know if this is related, but I've had a few folders vanish. At first I thought I may have deleted the folder by accident, but I've had a couple lately and I know that I didn't delete these. 

This can't be for space considerations, because it is not deleting things in order, just a whole folder gone.

Kinda a PIA, but it's only been a few(3), so I'm not that worried, but hope this does not become some bigger problem.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Seems off topic, but its also not clear what you are saying. Your folders went away (which is a setting) or you had all of the shows in a folder get deleted? This happened multiple times with folder only, or shows not in folders as well? What do you mean by not in order?

Still sounds like either the setting was turned off (which can happen with a keypress) or you are having space issues as well.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

I'm having this sort of problem on a Premiere...at 82% usage things start deleting to make new space. I've posted in a thread in the Premiere forum.

Have you experienced this problem either following deleting shows using the iOS app or a software update or both? (Ie. does it seem like shows deleted with the iOS app don't actually free up their space, although they do leave the recordings list.)


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

Since I have ceased using the TiVo app on iOS devices to delete shows, there has been no further loss of space. I'd say there is a strong suspect in custody.

Now what do I do to get TiVo Inc. to fix this and get people's free space usable again?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Sincerely doubt that's a problem. I delete shows all the time via RPC without consequence and my disk space used hasn't gone above 20% on my Roamio Pro. Just before posting this I deleted a block of shows via RPC and indicated disk space used in My Shows screen went down by 3%.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

Lol. All you've stated is you are no where near the point where you would observe this problem. You could have lost 79% of your storage space on your Roamio at this point and not even know it.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

berkshires said:


> Lol. All you've stated is you are no where near the point where you would observe this problem. You could have lost 79% of your storage space on your Roamio at this point and not even know it.


That's not true. Nobody else is observing this, and they would have (eg, I deleted my Olympic folder remotely.)

The normal culprit in cases like this is KUID Season Passes. It also can be file system corruption.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

What's not true? What I said is totally correct...on a TiVo that has never been more than 20% full there is no possibility to observe if it runs out of space at 21%.

Furthermore, the responder is using a different program to delete with, no?

Now, as to the cause for me...yet to be determined. Kick start 57 did not help...I'm still stuck at 83% max...and since not using TiVo's iOS app to delete, holding steady.

P.S. also holding at 83% despite new SP KUIDS coming in.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

berkshires said:


> What's not true? What I said is totally correct...on a TiVo that has never been more than 20% full there is no possibility to observe if it runs out of space at 21%.
> 
> Furthermore, the responder is using a different program to delete with, no?
> 
> ...


You do realize that space is being reserved for your KUID SPs long before they are actually recorded?

It's unlikely that it is your entire problem unless you have lots of KUID SPs.

So if I deleted 90% of my capacity, doesn't being 20% full mean I am not encountering your problem?


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

CrispyCritter said:


> You do realize that space is being reserved for your KUID SPs long before they are actually recorded?
> 
> It's unlikely that it is your entire problem unless you have lots of KUID SPs.
> 
> So if I deleted 90% of my capacity, doesn't being 20% full mean I am not encountering your problem?


1. I don't follow the numbers in your example as they relate to the problem or how they add up...

2. Where does the notion of "reserved space" for KUIDS come from? It didn't exist years ago. If it does exist now, why would that space not be used to complete and KUID a new SP recording? If it does exist now, its implementation is flawed and TiVo needs to correct it; rendering units well below capacity is a major bug.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

berkshires said:


> 1. I don't follow the numbers in your example as they relate to the problem or how they add up...
> 
> 2. Where does the notion of "reserved space" for KUIDS come from? It didn't exist years ago. If it does exist now, why would that space not be used to complete and KUID a new SP recording? If it does exist now, its implementation is flawed and TiVo needs to correct it; rendering units well below capacity is a major bug.


Reserved space for KUID's has been part of TiVo from Day 1. It used to be a much bigger problem for folks in the days of the tiny Series 1 disks. There have been hundreds of articles about it in the forums here.

One of the arguments in the debates here years ago against TiVo including a Free Space Indicator (the 82% of yours) is that it would expose alogrithms and confuse folks who use KUID SPs. It obviously has.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

I'm sorry, but no matter how many people in the past have been completely wrong about this and how many posts or articles have been written over all these years, no such unicorn exists. Forget it.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

berkshires said:


> I'm sorry, but no matter how many people in the past have been completely wrong about this and how many posts or articles have been written over all these years, no such unicorn exists. Forget it.


Then why are you possibly asking folks here for help, if you intend to ignore the experiences of hundreds of folks?


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

CrispyCritter said:


> Then why are you possibly asking folks here for help, if you intend to ignore the experiences of hundreds of folks?


I PM'd that member, after they PM'd me, wanting to know my "fix". I told them that it wasn't ready/safe for public consumption, but they could start by taking out KUID on SPs, and using KMTTG to delete & recover shows with it set, in bulk, with the restored items coming back with KUID cleared.

It took me a long time to accept that KUID could really cause so many "weird" problems. I'm a believer now, and just won't be using it anymore, and have even stripped KUID off my recordings by deleting and recovering with KMTTG.

It took a lot of time and effort to get the databases to repair themselves once I did so. So, it's not a magic bullet, even if you remove KUID from your SP settings and clear the KUID designation from what already exists.

Some are convinced it's a TiVo bug, and it probably is. I'd guess the "weird" issues going back to the first TiVo to have that option, seems to show that it's not easy to "fix".

TiVo is between a rock and a hard place:

1. Might have to do major reworking of their software to "fix", and who knows what that could (would) break, requiring more reworking, rinse & repeat.
2. Could just remove the option, which we all know would lead to lynch mobs (at least on TCF).

If people are just going to keep using KUID, against advice/help they ask for, I don't see any reason to further try to help or to advise.

Any advice I have, or laying-out of my own successful repair/fix, includes taking KUID out of the picture, as step #1. Don't ask me for help if you won't follow the first step of anything I have to offer.

I'm also not certain that everybody is talking about the same exact issue. I think the iPhone/iPad matter is in a realm of it's own. Could it share a common factor/denominator? Sure, it's possible/plausible.

I did find that turning off all the iPhone/iPad style options within KMTTG seemed to remove errors that were showing up in the status window when I was doing my bulk delete & recover processes, and caused a few recordings that didn't want to delete, to delete.

There's also some TSN-mapping and TiVo user account issues going on with TiVo, from their end of things. Unfortunately, this can cause all sorts of local problems on TiVos, up to and including database corruption. Any TiVo process, or action that involves going through TiVo's servers is susceptible/vulnerable to getting messed-up/corrupted. The number of problems that can be caused like this are growing, as TiVo continues to turn the TiVo service more into "life support", than the simple "source of guide data" it used to be referred to as. It used to be something a TiVo could live without, as long as it got an "injection' every so often. It's morphed into something that wreaks havoc in real-time, and something that every action we take results in attempted realtime reporting of every said action. One problem with a single TiVo server node, can cripple 200 TiVos, as the recent software update and rollbacks proved.


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## Silverman (Jan 18, 2013)

There's a simple fix for the bug. Never use KUID on a season pass, ever. But, simply go in once a recording is made and tell it KUID if that is what you want. Now, no space being reserved problem, it's all fixed. You need not be watching the show right then, can just skip to the end and add the KUID to the existing recording. Problem solved. Tivo could fix the problem the same way, remove KUID from the making of the season pass but leave it as an option for each recording already made, that would work perfect for all.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Silverman said:


> There's a simple fix for the bug. Never use KUID on a season pass, ever. But, simply go in once a recording is made and tell it KUID if that is what you want. Now, no space being reserved problem, it's all fixed. You need not be watching the show right then, can just skip to the end and add the KUID to the existing recording. Problem solved. Tivo could fix the problem the same way, remove KUID from the making of the season pass but leave it as an option for each recording already made, that would work perfect for all.


I use KUID on SP's all the time and have *never* experienced this problem. Then again, I have _*never*_ used the iOS app.

A few releases back, I would _*occasionally*_ have a problem permanently deleting something, but it was easily remedied by a reboot. I haven't even had that happen in more than year.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm back up to 93% on my Roamio Pro. So far I have not run into an issue like this. I was thinking about getting a 4TB drive to put in, but it is just too expensive. Or I would need to go for some time without it. Either way I'll need to just stick with it. If I had picked up a plus last year then I could pick up a less expensive 4TB configured to put in it. But I can't do that with the Pro.


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## berkshires (Feb 22, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> I use KUID on SP's all the time and have *never* experienced this problem. Then again, I have _*never*_ used the iOS app.
> 
> A few releases back, I would _*occasionally*_ have a problem permanently deleting something, but it was easily remedied by a reboot. I haven't even had that happen in more than year.


There is no KUID SP issue, bug or problem related to this issue that I am having, though its not clear from the OP posts what exactly their issue is.

Frankly there is no KUID SP bug or problem I've ever come across or legitimately heard of of any kind. But if there is something, its not about this at all, it's something else.*

Aaronwt: what issue are you having related to this?

* there may be some issues with TiVo accurately estimating whether future recordings will be possible based on KUID recordings planned in the interim, however, when the time for recording comes, there is no issue. In any event this would not explain the behavior I'm observing.


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