# Setting up MoCa network with Mini and Home Theatre Receiver



## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

Hello,


I am in the process of building out my tivo home and I'm not sure how I should connect my Tivo Bolt to be my MoCa bridge, and have my router connected? Ultimately, I'm going to have my Tivo hooked up to a home theatre receiver so I drew out a map of how to connect everything. Could someone please take a look at the two maps, and let me know which one is correct, if any?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Assuming your TV and internet come from the same source (cable co), the Bolt simply connects to the router by ethernet. Then in the Bolt settings you tell it to create a moca network for the rest of the coax in the home.


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Assuming your TV and internet come from the same source (cable co), the Bolt simply connects to the router by ethernet. Then in the Bolt settings you tell it to create a moca network for the rest of the coax in the home.


Thanks. The issue that I'm running into as well is that I have to use a tuning adapter with my Tivo. Would I connect the tuning adapter to my tivo then have an ethernet line running out of my tv and into one of the ports on the back of my router?

I've attached a diagram of what I'm thinking. Is it correct?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

BraveToaster said:


> Thanks. The issue that I'm running into as well is that I have to use a tuning adapter with my Tivo. Would I connect the tuning adapter to my tivo then have an ethernet line running out of my tv and into one of the ports on the back of my router?
> 
> I've attached a diagram of what I'm thinking. Is it correct?


It does not work that way with the tuning adapter. It needs a USB cable going to TiVo.

Also, the coax cable is split (to TiVo and TA).

See diagram below:

https://support.tivo.com/articles/F...l-a-Tuning-Adapter-for-Switched-Digital-Video

You may also need a POA MoCa filter before the modem, but I may be wrong on this one.

Other than these, everything else looks fine on your last diagram.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BraveToaster said:


> Thanks. The issue that I'm running into as well is that I have to use a tuning adapter with my Tivo. Would I connect the tuning adapter to my tivo then have an ethernet line running out of my tv and into one of the ports on the back of my router?
> 
> I've attached a diagram of what I'm thinking. Is it correct?


That's close, but the MoCA + Tuning Adapter combo requires another split -- because the tuning adapter wouldn't pass MoCA signals through its "TV Out" port.

*See here* for an example diagram showing how to connect a TiVo DVR and tuning adapter to coax lines with an _existing_ MoCA network. In your case, however, with a MoCA-ready BOLT, ignore the MoCA adapter and the coax cable running between it and the DVR; instead, you'd connect the coax directly from the pictured splitter output to the BOLT's coax input, but with the tuning adapter connected just as pictured -- with a MoCA filter on its input. You would also, then, need to run an Ethernet connection between the BOLT and your router -- as you've depicted.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> It does not work that way with the tuning adapter. It needs a USB cable going to TiVo.


Interesting note from your diagram link:


> *TiVo BOLT users:* always connect the USB cable to the TOP USB port.


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

thyname said:


> It does not work that way with the tuning adapter. It needs a USB cable going to TiVo.
> 
> Also, the coax cable is split (to TiVo and TA).
> 
> ...





krkaufman said:


> That's close, but the MoCA + Tuning Adapter combo requires another split -- because the tuning adapter wouldn't pass MoCA signals through its "TV Out" port.
> 
> *See here* for an example diagram showing how to connect a TiVo DVR and tuning adapter to coax lines with an _existing_ MoCA network. In your case, however, with a MoCA-ready BOLT, ignore the MoCA adapter and the coax cable running between it and the DVR; instead, you'd connect the coax directly from the pictured splitter output to the BOLT's coax input, but with the tuning adapter connected just as pictured -- with a MoCA filter on its input. You would also, then, need to run an Ethernet connection between the BOLT and your router -- as you've depicted.


Thanks guys! I took a look at the diagrams in the links you provided and I think that I have it figured out.

Is this correct? I attached the image


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

BraveToaster said:


> Thanks guys! I took a look at the diagrams in the links you provided and I think that I have it figured out.
> 
> Is this correct? I attached the image


You missed the additional filter on the input of the TA and depending on the make and model number of your cable modem, you may also need one on the input of the cable modem.


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

fcfc2 said:


> You missed the additional filter on the input of the TA and depending on the make and model number of your cable modem, you may also need one on the input of the cable modem.


So I would need 3 POE filters then?

1. On the line into the house before the splitter
2. After the splitter and before the modem
3. After the splitter, and second splitter, before the Tuning Adapter

I currently have a coax cable that is plugged into power strip, connected to a splitter, and one of the lines runs to the TA. Is that the same thing?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

BraveToaster said:


> So I would need 3 POE filters then?
> 
> 1. On the line into the house before the splitter
> 2. After the splitter and before the modem
> ...


You may need 3 but since the make and model number of your cable modem is a secret, it is impossible to tell. 
And no the coax ports on your power strip will have no effect on the MoCA signal.


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

fcfc2 said:


> You may need 3 but since the make and model number of your cable modem is a secret, it is impossible to tell.
> And no the coax ports on your power strip will have no effect on the MoCA signal.


Had to look it up, Cable Modem is a Cisco DPC3010


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

BraveToaster said:


> Had to look it up, Cable Modem is a Cisco DPC3010


Hi again, 
The specs for the modem say nothing about MoCA, so assume it does not have a builtin filter like most of the Arris/Motorola versions. Here's all the filters you will probably ever need, http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pieces-Mo...293596?hash=item2344277b9c:g:80QAAOSwm8VUu-u1


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi again,
> The specs for the modem say nothing about MoCA, so assume it does not have a builtin filter like most of the Arris/Motorola versions. Here's all the filters you will probably ever need, http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pieces-Mo...293596?hash=item2344277b9c:g:80QAAOSwm8VUu-u1


Thanks! As a follow up question. The splitter that my cable tech installed also serves as a signal amplifier. Should I set the POE filter before the signal amplifier or after?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

BraveToaster said:


> Thanks! As a follow up question. The splitter that my cable tech installed also serves as a signal amplifier. Should I set the POE filter before the signal amplifier or after?


Yeah, it's kind of the other way around, the amplifier also acts as a splitter. Need to know the make and model number of the amplifier....some are not MoCA compatible.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

BraveToaster said:


> So I would need 3 POE filters then?
> 
> 1. On the line into the house before the splitter
> 2. After the splitter and before the modem
> ...


You can probably start with just one POA filter at #1, and go from there. That's a must. #2 likely needed, not sure about #3.

I would personally avoid power strips for coax. Not had any before, but I have read posts from other people saying that it interferes with MoCa


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

fcfc2 said:


> Yeah, it's kind of the other way around, the amplifier also acts as a splitter. Need to know the make and model number of the amplifier....some are not MoCA compatible.


The three way splitter/amplifer is an Antronix MRA1-15

I posted up a breakdown map what it looks like. My POE filter right now connects directly into my two way splitter.



thyname said:


> You can probably start with just one POA filter at #1, and go from there. That's a must. #2 likely needed, not sure about #3.
> 
> I would personally avoid power strips for coax. Not had any before, but I have read posts from other people saying that it interferes with MoCa


Thanks. With the #1 POE filter, I'm able to get internet and cable with no issues. I haven't tried setting up the MoCa yet since I need to still do some drilling for customizing my setup.

I posted an overview of what the setup looks like right now.

What is the point of having multiple POE filters in the setup instead of just the initial one? Wouldn't the initial POE filter, filter the outgoing signal?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BraveToaster said:


> What is the point of having multiple POE filters in the setup instead of just the initial one? Wouldn't the initial POE filter, filter the outgoing signal?


*MoCA filter at PoE:* keeps your MoCA signals inside your home (security), reflecting your MoCA signals back onto your coax lines (performance)

*MoCA filter on tuning adapter input:* protects tuning adapter from MoCA signals, which have been seen to cause tuning adapter flakiness.

*MoCA filter on cable modem input:* ditto tuning adapter case, to protect a MoCA-ignorant cable modem from MoCA signals, which may otherwise cause modem instability. (e.g. symptoms & solution) Most new modems are being produced with built-in MoCA filters, but, as mentioned above, your modem's specs make no mention of having a MoCA filter.

p.s. This question is also why I make an effort to refer to the component in question as a "MoCA filter." (aka PoE filter, whole home DVR filter) It's just a filter that blocks/reflects MoCA signals, and should be employed wherever this function is needed, at the signal PoE (cable or antenna), or to protect components from the MoCA signals or the MoCA signals from components -- again, as needed.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BraveToaster said:


> The three way splitter/amplifer is an Antronix MRA1-15


That model is not a 3-way, it's just a single line 15dB amplifier (1 IN/1 OUT), thus the "1-15" designation, with an optional power-only coax port. And given it's specs, I wouldn't expect it to be able to pass MoCA signals.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

That amplifier is not MoCA compatible, it will actually block MoCA from passing it, so based on your current setup you probably won't need a filter on the modem, but it won't hurt anything either. 
Note: Some of Antronix newer multiport amps are MoCA capable though.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BraveToaster said:


> I posted an overview of what the setup looks like right now.
> 
> View attachment 25807


The diagram helps communicate your current setup, but the diagram is lacking the Ethernet connections from an earlier diagram (modem-to-router, BOLT-to-router), and also is lacking the splitter before the tuning adapter and BOLT to provide each with a direct coax connection (rather than feeding the BOLT from he TA's output). Note that feeding the BOLT via the TA's "TV Out" port may work for allowing the BOLT to tune TV programming; however, it will prohibit any MoCA connectivity for the BOLT.

All that said, I'm mostly at a loss as to how what is shown in the diagram is supposed to connect anywhere else in your house. Given just the drawings, there's no need for MoCA as the BOLT can connect directly to the router via an Ethernet cable. (This is especially important given that the amplifier is likely not MoCA compliant, and will block any MoCA signals from passing through it.)

Do you have other rooms to which you plan on running coax or Ethernet? If so, how will those rooms connect back to the components in your diagram?

It would also be helpful for the diagram(s) to indicate locations of the components, so that it can be seen which components are co-located, possibly offering connection alternatives.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> It would also be helpful for the diagram(s) to indicate locations of the components, so that it can be seen which components are co-located, possibly offering connection alternatives.


e.g. See this example, from another user's setup:
View attachment 24654


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BraveToaster said:


> Thanks. With the #1 POE filter, I'm able to get internet and cable with no issues. I haven't tried setting up the MoCa yet *since I need to still do some drilling* for customizing my setup.


I cannot emphasize enough that you need to have a solid understanding how the components depicted/discussed thus far will connect to the rest of your home *before* drilling.


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> The diagram helps communicate your current setup, but the diagram is lacking the Ethernet connections from an earlier diagram (modem-to-router, BOLT-to-router), and also is lacking the splitter before the tuning adapter and BOLT to provide each with a direct coax connection (rather than feeding the BOLT from he TA's output). Note that feeding the BOLT via the TA's "TV Out" port may work for allowing the BOLT to tune TV programming; however, it will prohibit any MoCA connectivity for the BOLT.
> 
> All that said, I'm mostly at a loss as to how what is shown in the diagram is supposed to connect anywhere else in your house. Given just the drawings, there's no need for MoCA as the BOLT can connect directly to the router via an Ethernet cable. (This is especially important given that the amplifier is likely not MoCA compliant, and will block any MoCA signals from passing through it.)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help. I took your advice and diagrammed out my understanding of what I'm understanding. Right now, I'm only working to set up my main room, but I plan to eventually expand into the Bedroom 1 & 2.

Since my amplifier doesn't do MoCa, and it's directly connected, does this mean I need to remove it? I saw you guys mentioned there are amplifiers that allow a MoCa signal to pass through, but where can I buy one? The Antronix website didn't make it seem like I could buy through them.

As for the first POE filter, would I just go out to the cable box and attach it to the line there? My house already has coax lines split to the different rooms; since I didn't build it, I don't know where those splitters are located at. I just know that they call connect to the same source, so I've just been focused on getting the main room with the modem setup for MoCa, and assuming that once that is completed, MoCa will be enabled on my network throughout the house.



krkaufman said:


> I cannot emphasize enough that you need to have a solid understanding how the components depicted/discussed thus far will connect to the rest of your home *before* drilling.


Well, the drilling is really for running speaker wire, ethernet and HDMI cables. I'm not messing with the coax since that was already ran by the previous owner.

Here's the map. I hope it provides clarity to my line of though. I appreciate your guy's help. I had no idea how complicated these networks got, but it's fun!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BraveToaster said:


> I took your advice and diagrammed out my understanding of what I'm understanding. Right now, I'm only working to set up my main room, but I plan to eventually expand into the Bedroom 1 & 2.


This last diagram was a huge help, and appears entirely correct -- with that one last issue of the non-MoCA amp needing to be resolved. (And assuming all the splitters are MoCA-compliant.) Seeing the big picture makes it obvious where the "PoE" MoCA filter needs to go: yes, on the input to that first splitter, outside.



BraveToaster said:


> Since my amplifier doesn't do MoCa, and it's directly connected, does this mean I need to remove it?


Well, if you can remove it without affecting your TV signal reception on the TiVO DVR, then that'd be great. Otherwise, you'll need to replace it with a MoCA-friendly amp -- or maybe try sending the MoCA signals around it, as described here: DIY MoCA-bypass amp using satellite diplexers maybe move it?

edit: p.s. The only thing notably absent from your latest diagram is the cabling legend, included earlier.

edit: p.p.s. eBay auction offering diplexers (h/t fcfc2) should you need them.

---
edited to strike-out a bad suggestion


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Those single port MoCA friendly amps are rare. I could only find this one, PCT PCT-MA2-1P, http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=PCT+PCT-MA2-1P&_sacat=0
and you still would need to order a power supply for it and I could not find the specs to see how much it boosts the signal.
There is also a PDI single port amp occasionally around, but none available right now, and they are 10dB rated.
You would be using the old one now, but when you go to try and add those minis, the amp will kill the MoCA, unless of course, I am wrong about your current amp, the absence of information regarding MoCA for it, is not the same as finding a definitive statement that it is, but I wouldn't bet on it.
It is unusual to find one leg so weak that it needs that much of a boost. 
The only other thing I can think of is to use one of the MoCA rated multiport amps from PCT, or PPC to replace the one you are using but that is a bit of a dice roll too.


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## BraveToaster (Jun 23, 2016)

krkaufman said:


> This last diagram was a huge help, and appears entirely correct -- with that one last issue of the non-MoCA amp needing to be resolved. (And assuming all the splitters are MoCA-compliant.) Seeing the big picture makes it obvious where the "PoE" MoCA filter needs to go: yes, on the input to that first splitter, outside.
> 
> Well, if you can remove it without affecting your TV signal reception on the TiVO DVR, then that'd be great. Otherwise, you'll need to replace it with a MoCA-friendly amp -- or maybe try sending the MoCA signals around it, as described here: DIY MoCA-bypass amp using satellite diplexers
> 
> ...


Thanks, appreciate the help.

I haven't ever messed with the outside cable box before; but I opened it up the other night to take a look. Seems simple enough to add the POE filter - Disconnect current line, add in POE filter, Connect lines, shut cable box door.

The write up on the diplexers looks good and even better the diplexers look cheap.

When I undertook this endeavor; I had no idea how complicated it would and how quickly.



fcfc2 said:


> Those single port MoCA friendly amps are rare. I could only find this one, PCT PCT-MA2-1P, http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=PCT+PCT-MA2-1P&_sacat=0
> and you still would need to order a power supply for it and I could not find the specs to see how much it boosts the signal.
> There is also a PDI single port amp occasionally around, but none available right now, and they are 10dB rated.
> You would be using the old one now, but when you go to try and add those minis, the amp will kill the MoCA, unless of course, I am wrong about your current amp, the absence of information regarding MoCA for it, is not the same as finding a definitive statement that it is, but I wouldn't bet on it.
> ...


Yeah, it seems if I want to get my hands on the Antronix MoCa amplifier; that I would have to buy a box of 25...

The Satellite Diplexer that krkaufman mentioned above looks like a potential work around. I'll be interested in trying it out if I can't get my hands on one of those MoCa amplifiers.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

BraveToaster said:


> The write up on the diplexers looks good and even better the diplexers look cheap.
> 
> When I undertook this endeavor; I had no idea how complicated it would and how quickly.
> 
> ...


*A rather big FAT retraction re: the diplexer bypass* I suggested: I got careless in suggesting it for your situation, as the SAT/ANT diplexers can be *problematic when it comes to CABLE TV signals*, since the lower frequency range cuts off at just over 800 MHz -- stripping ~200 MHz from the cable TV spectrum and possibly eliminating a number of channels, depending on how they've been allocated. (I expect it would allow MoCA to flow, but it's questionable how many channels the diplexers might snuff.)
*Holland DPD2 Specs*

ANT: 40 - 806 MHz
SAT: 950 - 2150 MHz​
Apologies. 

edit: p.s. On the other hand, if you can verify that your Cable TV provider doesn't broadcast any TV programming above 806 MHz, then the DPD2 diplexers might work just fine. Also, if needed, you might be able to squeeze a bit more TV signal through using Eagle Aspen D2200 diplexers, which supposedly have a low band cut-off at 860 MHz.


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