# season pass recording repeats



## skybronco (Oct 21, 2003)

Hello,
I know this has been asked and commented on but come on TiVo what's the deal with season passes set to record first run only recording repeats.

Examples--Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown, right now the guide clearly does not indicate this is a "new" show and the original air date is in the description yet my Roamio plus wants to record it even though I've asked it to record first runs only.

What is the fix for this?

Totally annoying. It doesn't seem to be the guide or the programer's fault, the dates are in there, and it isn't 'new'.

What gives?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

skybronco said:


> Hello,
> I know this has been asked and commented on but come on TiVo what's the deal with season passes set to record first run only recording repeats.
> 
> Examples--Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown, right now the guide clearly does not indicate this is a "new" show and the original air date is in the description yet my Roamio plus wants to record it even though I've asked it to record first runs only.
> ...


Not much you can do. The guide gets help from "rules". You can stop this quest of looking for a solution or you can get a SP for the Daily Show and _really_ have something to have fun with. Best idea is to delete what you don't want to watch in the To Do list and add what you want as a manual recording off the guide for shows not flagged as new because they ran in Canada two months ago. Life's too short to let this get to you.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

skybronco said:


> Hello,
> I know this has been asked and commented on but come on TiVo what's the deal with season passes set to record first run only recording repeats.
> 
> Examples--Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown, right now the guide clearly does not indicate this is a "new" show and the original air date is in the description yet my Roamio plus wants to record it even though I've asked it to record first runs only.
> ...


What is the info on the episodes that are being scheduled? Is it episode specific data with an actual episode title or is generic with an episode title of "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" and an OAD of 4/14/13?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

lpwcomp said:


> What is the info on the episodes that are being scheduled? Is it episode specific data with an actual episode title or is generic with an episode title of "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" and an OAD of 4/14/13?


My guide for that episode shows OAD of 9/15/13 and full description. This agrees with TMS on Zap2It. It's an example of the rules that want to record something new to the DVR, just not really "new" to the world. And it will probably be cancelled anyhow when we get to 12/18 at 9pm. But you never know.


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## skybronco (Oct 21, 2003)

The anthony bourdain example might be an example like the Daily show tutorial on Tivo.com that could work with a wishlist. Why? because it seems all the reruns of parts unknown have the same description, but Engine Power is show that sometimes says "no description available" and sometimes a re-run has the full description of the show, so not sure how to set up a wishlist like the daily show example on tivo.com

Also, the tivo.com example of the daily show leaves out some steps, OMG Tivo, fix the webpage to show all the steps. Also should fix the example to use the show title value instead of putting both in the description keyword value, some shows might end up being recorded that are not intended that way.

They should add the keyword function to the season passes. They should change the name of wishlist to season pass plus or something,


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> My guide for that episode shows OAD of 9/15/13 and full description. This agrees with TMS on Zap2It. It's an example of the rules that want to record something new to the DVR, just not really "new" to the world. And it will probably be cancelled anyhow when we get to 12/18 at 9pm. But you never know.


That's not the way the rules work. If it has full episode data and an OAD of 9/15/13, there's no way an FRO/"NEW only" SP will try to schedule it. Even if the TiVo hasn't recorded it before , if it has full guide data the OAD still has to be within 28 days of the day of showing in order for an FRO SP to schedule it. Otherwise, it would be picking up almost all of the rerunws as there is only 28 days of history.

I'm seeing several upcoming episodes of "Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown" with generic guide data. Hopefully, the guide data will get fixed before the day of the showing and they will be removed from the schedule. I see this all of the time with "Robot Chicken".


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## skybronco (Oct 21, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> That's not the way the rules work. If it has full episode data and an OAD of 9/15/13, there's no way an FRO/"NEW only" SP will try to schedule it. Even if the TiVo hasn't recorded it before , if it has full guide data the OAD still has to be within 28 days of the day of showing in order for an FRO SP to schedule it. Otherwise, it would be picking up almost all of the rerunws as there is only 28 days of history.


What are the rules and where are they located?

Also, Engine Power is a show that some of the repeats have no description at all associated with them, but they do have OAD. The wishlist wants to record them even though they are not new. I tried to add spaces as a keyword but it won't take it, I tried to enter "description not available" but that really isn't in the description and doesn't work either. So any suggestions for repeats that have blank description to filter them out with a wishlist?


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## skybronco (Oct 21, 2003)

It's just interesting to me that shows that are repeats but have their full original descriptions and OADs are excluded from a season pass with first run only, but a show with generic description and OAD is not excluded from a season pass asking for first run only, example Parts Unknown, some have original descriptions some don't, the ones that have original descriptions aren't scheduled to record, the ones with generic record unless you add the generic description exclusions via wishlist, so just wondering where these rules are, would maybe clear things up for me.

tia


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

skybronco said:


> What are the rules and where are they located?


I'll be generous and assume you didn't intend that to be in a snarky tone.

AFAIK, the "rules" have never been codified by TiVo, simply deduced from know behavior and what information is available to the TiVo such as the 28-days worth of history.

The "rule" that is in play here is:

The TiVo keeps track of recordings via the programId assigned to an episode or movie/special, etc by TMS. If a guide entry lacks this piece of information, the TiVo has no way of knowing if it has been recorded nor if any of the other data such as OAD is accurate. So, to make sure you don't miss something you actually want recorded, an FRO SP will schedule it.



skybronco said:


> Also, Engine Power is a show that some of the repeats have no description at all associated with them, but they do have OAD. The wishlist wants to record them even though they are not new. I tried to add spaces as a keyword but it won't take it, I tried to enter "description not available" but that really isn't in the description and doesn't work either. So any suggestions for repeats that have blank description to filter them out with a wishlist?


There seems have been only one episode _*ever*_ of a series called "Engine Power".


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

skybronco said:


> It's just interesting to me that shows that are repeats but have their full original descriptions and OADs are excluded from a season pass with first run only, but a show with generic description and OAD is not excluded from a season pass asking for first run only, example Parts Unknown, some have original descriptions some don't, the ones that have original descriptions aren't scheduled to record, the ones with generic record unless you add the generic description exclusions via wishlist, so just wondering where these rules are, would maybe clear things up for me.
> 
> tia


Would you rather it not record a new episode just because there is incomplete guide data? If you think that actual new episodes never have generic guide data, you are sadly mistaken. IIRC, it happened last year with "Haven".


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## skybronco (Oct 21, 2003)

totally not being snarky, being serious

I'm assuming no one here works as a computer/software engineer for TiVo so when I ask the questions I'm not really expecting anyone to know for sure, or whatever.

you said the tivo needs a program id or whatever from TMS, what is TMS? Tivo media service? I could google it but didn't. ***Looked it up, Tribune Media Services**** who'd have known?

Also, the shows have the original air date, why in the world would the people programming the box think to ignore that information because it "might" be inaccurate???? That makes no sense to me at all. Seems to me if it looked at OAD and eliminated old shows that would fix everything,

can you give me an example where the original air date information was inaccurate for a new show?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

skybronco said:


> you said the tivo needs a program id or whatever from TMS, what is TMS? Tivo media service? I could google it but didn't.


Tribune Media Services. They supply TiVo (among others) with guide data. They also own zap2it.



skybronco said:


> Also, the shows have the original air date, why in the world would the people programming the box think to ignore that information because it "might" be inaccurate???? That makes no sense to me at all. Seems to me if it looked at OAD and eliminated old shows that would fix everything,


Because if the programId is missing, the OAD is usually the date of the first episode of the series. Scheduling it is the TiVo erring on the side of caution.



skybronco said:


> can you give me an example where the original air date information was inaccurate for a new show?


See my previous post.


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## skybronco (Oct 21, 2003)

lpwcomp said:


> Would you rather it not record a new episode just because there is incomplete guide data? If you think that actual new episodes never have generic guide data, you are sadly mistaken. IIRC, it happened last year with "Haven".


Yes I would. I'm having a cow right now [lighten up people I'm kidding!] because my roamio is recording a bunch of old shows, I'd rather have it miss one every blue moon, then drive me crazy all the time.

I don't remember having all these issues with my series 3 and 2 TiVos, is there something different with the Roamio Plus over the other two?

why can't they add some filtering features of the wishlist to the season pass? why not integrate the two in some way?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

skybronco said:


> totally not being snarky, being serious
> 
> can you give me an example where the original air date information was inaccurate for a new show?


You haven't specified where. New means new for North America. Examples: _Motive_, and tonight's "new" (on TMS, not TiVo) S03, E01 of _Highway Thru Hell_ on TWC. First aired is 9/9/14 in Canada. _Continuum_ was sometimes a challenge too. To get global, _Doctor Who_ would also be fun on BBCA. No simple answer, so I just work with what we have.


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## skybronco (Oct 21, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> Doctor Who[/I] would also be fun on BBCA. No simple answer, so I just work with what we have.


ok fair enough I can see how that would muck things up,

still there must be a way to make this more better


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

skybronco said:


> Yes I would. I'm having a cow right now [lighten up people I'm kidding!] because my roamio is recording a bunch of old shows, I'd rather have it miss one every blue moon, then drive me crazy all the time.
> 
> I don't remember having all these issues with my series 3 and 2 TiVos, is there something different with the Roamio Plus over the other two?
> 
> why can't they add some filtering features of the wishlist to the season pass? why not integrate the two in some way?


I don't know what you thought you were seeing on your older TiVos, but it has _*always*_ worked this way. Well, at least since 2002.  As I said, the TiVo scheduler is erring on the side of caution.

I assure you that your preference to risk missing an episode to avoid recording an old episode puts you in a distinct minority.

You should complain to the station/network and ask them to provide full and accurate guide data to TMS.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> You haven't specified where. New means new for North America. Examples: _Motive_, and tonight's "new" (on TMS, not TiVo) S03, E01 of _Highway Thru Hell_ on TWC. First aired is 9/9/14 in Canada. _Continuum_ was sometimes a challenge too.


That is a separate issue. OAD is and always has been the _*original*_ air date, not the original _*U.S.*_ air date. It's why you can't use an FRO SP for programs that first air more than 28 days prior to their first U.S. air date.


JoeKustra said:


> To get global, _Doctor Who_ would also be fun on BBCA. No simple answer, so I just work with what we have.


"Doctor Who" hasn't been a problem for more than a year since they started showing episodes on BBCA the same day the debut on The Beeb.

There are actually at least three definitions of "New" for a TIVo. The NEW designation in the guide is there only if the OAD = day of showing. New for scheduling purposes is any episodes within 28 days of the day of showing. There's also the NEW designation in "MY Shows". I have no idea what the criteria for that is.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm pretty sure deleting shows takes no time at all, and is only one button. Better to be conservative than overly trusting in guide data.


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## iconoclast (Oct 27, 2014)

skybronco said:


> can you give me an example where the original air date information was inaccurate for a new show?


I have recently seen inaccurate OAD listed for several shows. I know the show is new but the OAD listed is months or years old! Most recent is UFC live sports programming on Fox Sports 1 this past weekend Friday & Saturday. I had to check bc TiVo also recorded repeat episodes of past fights & put them all in a folder so, I needed to find the new ones & had to go by the date recorded rather than by the OAD since it was way off! Also I find I need to use the list order, older recored w/in a folder is on the bottom & most recent at the top.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

The last time I was involved in a discussion of season pass rules, I found a very clear and simple description on the TiVo website. Besides being clear and simple it was also completely wrong.

I'm pretty sure the blame for the problem identified by the OP is the fault of the individual stations providing incomplete data to TMS. Bad data prevents the system from working correctly, all TiVo can do is err on the side of caution.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

skybronco said:


> Hello,
> I know this has been asked and commented on but come on TiVo what's the deal with season passes set to record first run only recording repeats.
> 
> Examples--Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown, right now the guide clearly does not indicate this is a "new" show and the original air date is in the description yet my Roamio plus wants to record it even though I've asked it to record first runs only.
> ...


Did it record the show or does it only show up on the to do list as planning to record?

I just created a new only season pass for Anthony Bourdain Parts Unknown on CNN. There is no problem with the shows that have good guide data. They are not set to record. However, there are shows on 12/25 and 12/26 that doesn't have good guide data yet. They have what I call generic place holder data. Those are listed to record. However, they most likely will not record because the guide data will get up dated in the next week or so with good data.

This happens with lots of shows for more than a week out. Personally I don't concern myself with any of these generic shows more than a week out, because I know the data is no good.

You would see this with Fallon and Letterman, etc. Their data is only reliable to about a week out. However, you probably wouldn't notice because you probably expect the show to broadcast anyway. However, if it is a repeat when the data gets loaded, it will get removed from the to do list.


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

I have a season pass for The Daily Show, and it rarely records episodes that aren't new and aren't airing for the first time. Occasionally it wants to record all the reruns on a Monday because of inadequate guide data, but I find that this SP works much better than it did two or three years ago.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

skybronco said:


> but a show with generic description and OAD is not excluded from a season pass asking for first run only,


The "OAD" is NOT for that original episode, it is for the SERIES as a whole. That date is when the show itself premiered.

While there are many of us would like to say "treat generic data as repeats", I would basically guarantee there have been NEW episodes of shows that have aired with generic data. (Likely not prime time broadcast channels, but that's my opinion.)

So, to be an "appliance", the Tivo *HAS* to take the least risky choice, in that it will record TOO MUCH instead of TOO LITTLE...

The user has the control in terms of the season pass manager to prioritize what is recorded instead of what else.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

59er said:


> I have a season pass for The Daily Show, and it rarely records episodes that aren't new and aren't airing for the first time. Occasionally it wants to record all the reruns on a Monday because of inadequate guide data, but I find that this SP works much better than it did two or three years ago.


Yeah, they've been much more reliable on the guide data lately.. Even the Mondays often fill in with correct guide data I think, but I usually nuke them preemptively when I see them show up in the to do list.


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