# New Daylight Savings Time Update for Series1



## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

I have news to share.

Recently TiVo sent notices out to our Series1 owners that for the next three weeks their clock would be off by one hour, and their manual recordings would have to be adjusted.

This was due to the change to Daylight Savings Time mandated by Congress.

Our engineers had worked on the problem, and had not come up with a solution that would take care of all Series1 standalone systems.

They were wrong. It doesn't happen very often, but they are human, and humans make mistakes. A solution was found by a forum member here and posted. This is a case where I'm actually happy to say we were wrong.

So...a fix is going to be made available, very shortly, for Series1 standalone customers. It's very similar to what was posted - same basic idea, slightly different implementation. We've been testing it here this week.

There will be a sign-up page to receive this update, and I'll update this thread with the url as soon as it's ready.

[edit: Here's the URL. Note that the customer support materials linked from that page may not have been updated just yet...]

Series1 customers will also be receiving notification that a fix is available.

As we've just messaged folks to change all of their manual recordings, we're not going to automatically send this out to everyone (if we did, well, we'd mess things up for anyone that *had* changed their manual recordings). So, when I post the url to this thread, sign up.

We do apologize for any inconvenience you may have experienced with the transition to the new DST dates, and we anticipate this will not be an issue going forward.

Thanks,
Pony


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

While I don't have an S1, I applaud the endeavors of your team and that of the forum member who came up with a solution. Nice to see teamwork!! :up:


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## wdave (Jul 16, 2000)

Excellent!

/subscribe for url

Wait, does this mean I can't argue for a free Series 2 with lifetime transfer? No? Darn.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Good deal! I'll be subscribing for this list when it's ready. 

By the way, I can understand not wanting to goof people up who have already changed their manual recordings, but I would think messages would be sent out before Fall, so that people who don't read the forums here won't have to deal with this in the Fall.



wdave said:


> Wait, does this mean I can't argue for a free Series 2 with lifetime transfer? No? Darn.


That would have been so sweet to upgrade my lifetime to a series 2 DT. Your 'darn' is well taken.


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## dhulcher (Feb 13, 2007)

Great job, TiVo and anyone on the forum that assisted them.


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## Opusnbill7 (Sep 12, 2000)

wdave said:


> Excellent!
> 
> /subscribe for url
> 
> Wait, does this mean I can't argue for a free Series 2 with lifetime transfer? No? Darn.


Amen....but I'm still glad they're fixing it. My faith is restored in Tivo.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

So ... who's the forum member that gets a free TiVo or subscription package for helping the engineers out? 

I would think at least the Series 1 owners here should buy that TCF poster a beer or two!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

:up: for such an upfront post on how a vexing issue was resolved to the customer's benefit.


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## n548gxg (Mar 7, 2003)

Thank You


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

timckelley said:


> By the way, I can understand not wanting to goof people up who have already changed their manual recordings, but I would think messages would be sent out before Fall, so that people who don't read the forums here won't have to deal with this in the Fall.


It is our expectation that this will be automatically included in the future, making future messaging unnecessary.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

For those of you that start at the bottom of the thread instead of the top:

Here's the URL for signing up for the update.

Note that the customer support document linked from that page may not have been updated just yet...

Pony


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

Pony,

a couple of questions from those series 1 owners who were able to switch to a +1 timezone and turned off automated daylight saving setting (via guided setup) giving us correct time, schedule, and manual recordings until daylight saving time ends in November:

Will this fix interfere with that?

If we have control over the timing of this patch, when should we apply it for minimal disruption? (I realize I will have to rerun guided setup to change the timezone back and enable automatic DST)


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## 1003 (Jul 14, 2000)

*Thank you,*
maybe now my Series1 will continue to have an uncomplicated marginally productive life...


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I really hope you guys reward the forum member! 

I don't have a Series 1 anymore but I would be thanking you if I did!


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

GBL said:


> Pony,
> 
> a couple of questions from those series 1 owners who were able to switch to a +1 timezone and turned off automated daylight saving setting (via guided setup) giving us correct time, schedule, and manual recordings until daylight saving time ends in November:
> 
> ...


Excellent questions, I'm trying to get the answers for you. Until I get everything confirmed, I'd suggest that you hold off on signing up for this if:

* You reran guided setup as a temporary fix
* You took the script that was posted on the forum here and applied it to your box.

I'll try to have definitive answers for you tomorrow on what we'd recommend in each of these instances.

As far as when the update would be applied to your box, that's more difficult to tell. Our 'safe' assumption is within three days of filling out the form you should have the update. Honestly it often can go much much faster than that. It is also gated by when your box calls the service and how many people sign up for the update. Given the number of variables, it's hard to predict an exact time.

Cheers,
Pony


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

Thank you jberman for seeing the forest through the trees when I could not. I was close though 

Thank you TiVo for stepping up to the plate to address the concerns of S1 owners.

I was certain that TiVo had put S1 standalone customers out to pasture and I was most certainly wrong.

Steve


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## jjberger2134 (Nov 20, 2002)

drew2k said:


> So ... who's the forum member that gets a free TiVo or subscription package for helping the engineers out?
> 
> I would think at least the Series 1 owners here should buy that TCF poster a beer or two!


"jberman"

Look at this thread, start looking at page 19.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=340655&page=1&pp=30


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> It is our expectation that this will be automatically included in the future, making future messaging unnecessary.


Good point; that makes sense.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

jjberger2134 said:


> "jberman"
> 
> Look at this thread, start looking at page 19.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=340655&page=1&pp=30


This is his "eureka" post: link


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## technomutt (Jun 14, 2004)

OK, but is this going to change the kernel and crash our S1's with hard drives bigger than 120GB?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

technomutt said:


> OK, but is this going to change the kernel and crash our S1's with hard drives bigger than 120GB?


It better not. My S1 certainly does have a bigger hard drive than that.


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## technomutt (Jun 14, 2004)

timckelley said:


> It better not. My S1 certainly does have a bigger hard drive than that.


Likewise... this better not be like the S1 DirecTivo jump from 3.1 to 3.5. I think I'll wait for others to take the plunge.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

timckelley said:


> It better not. My S1 certainly does have a bigger hard drive than that.


If it's a full software update, it'll probably include an LBA-28 kernel like the 3.5b update for the S1 combo boxes. If that's the case, I would let the new software install and then immediately install the LBA-48 kernel before anything beyond the 137 GB barrier is accessed.


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## biker (Jan 8, 2001)

Thanks!


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

My S1 had it's hard drive replaced by the original owner before I bought it.

But wait, wait. I think I have a false alarm. I recently installed a 250 GB drive in my series 2, but my series 1 has 2 drives: one is 80G, and one is 20G. (The original owner had upgraded to 2 80G drives, but one went bad, so I replaced with the a 20G I had hanging around the house. Small, yes, but it was my only spare drive I wasn't using.)

So since my largest drive in the S1 is only 80G, I'm thinking I have nothing worry about, right?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Can't you guys just update EVERYONE, and then show a PTCM after the update saying
"oops, we goofed.. There IS a real fix for this, and now it's installed.. go fix your manual SPs"?

(even better, automagically fix the manual SPs..)


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

But after the discussion about HDs over 137G, I'm wondering if it's smart to just automatically fix everyone, if it's going to cut off access beyond 137G. Maybe the signup is a good idea.

Hey, I have a new queston. If we have to worry about HDs over 137G, what about my series 2? It has a 250G drive in it (that I just installed last year as an upgrade). I assume it got the DST patch automatically. Is it still going to access its full 250G that it's got?


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

timckelley said:


> So since my largest drive in the S1 is only 80G, I'm thinking I have nothing worry about, right?


Yep, you should be fine.



> Hey, I have a new queston. If we have to worry about HDs over 137G, what about my series 2? It has a 250G drive in it (that I just installed last year as an upgrade). I assume it got the DST patch automatically. Is it still going to access its full 250G that it's got?


The latest S2 software has a LBA-48 kernel, so you should be all set there too.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Good deal. :up:


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## Rottluver (Dec 6, 2004)

technomutt said:


> OK, but is this going to change the kernel and crash our S1's with hard drives bigger than 120GB?


I know mine is a DTV S1, but I have dual 120 GB hard drives (that I installed) and it took the download/updated software without any trouble at all.

Hope this helps.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

sbourgeo said:


> If it's a full software update...


It's not a full software update. No worries.

Pony


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

Wow! Tivo has done the right thing..Thanks!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

parzec said:


> Wow! Tivo has done the right thing..Thanks!


As long as I have been a customer, I've noticed they generally do ...


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Thanks to jberman and to all of you at TiVo who tested and tweaked after seeing the discussion here. :up: :up: :up:

Jan


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## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I would like to say that while reams of people were bashing Tivo in that other thread I had sense enough to know what to do instead. I couldn't FIX it but I sure knew how to GET IT FIXED, and that was to call on the hackers to come up with a fix instead of just bashing Tivo. I think I was about the only person saying that early on and was pretty well ignored at the time in the thread, but oh was I right or what? I also said I couldn't imagine Tivo just failing to fix the thing after what they had said on the forum, and later that maybe we can eliminate someones software job when it is proven there is a fix after all. I have a feeling that part will be accurate too. Anyway, just wanted to remind you all. You hackers ought to apply at Tivo, there may be an opening any day now. Many Thanks to our Tivo people for admitting the error, I feel much better about the product now.


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## IHDB (Mar 9, 2007)

visionary said:


> I would like to say that while reams of people were bashing Tivo in that other thread I had sense enough to know what to do instead. I couldn't FIX it but I sure knew how to GET IT FIXED, and that was to call on the hackers to come up with a fix instead of just bashing Tivo. I think I was about the only person saying that early on and was pretty well ignored at the time in the thread, but oh was I right or what? I also said I couldn't imagine Tivo just failing to fix the thing after what they had said on the forum, and later that maybe we can eliminate someones software job when it is proven there is a fix after all. I have a feeling that part will be accurate too. Anyway, just wanted to remind you all. You hackers ought to apply at Tivo, there may be an opening any day now. Many Thanks to our Tivo people for admitting the error, I feel much better about the product now.


You were spot on, man... I'm glad that my faith and trust in Tivo wasn't misplaced.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Is there any way for unsubbed boxes to get this fix?


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## jevo (Dec 21, 2001)

bicker said:


> Is there any way for unsubbed boxes to get this fix?


Um, not to state the obvious, but SUBSCRIBE!!!!


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## Marconi (Sep 8, 2001)

TiVoPony said:


> A solution [to the Series 1 DST problem] was found by a forum member here and posted.
> 
> So...a fix is going to be made available, very shortly, for Series1 standalone customers. It's very similar to what was posted - same basic idea, slightly different implementation. We've been testing it here this week.
> Pony


Be sure to test on machines that *do not use* DST. I'm in Arizona and we don't do DST, though it seems that every time the rest of the country Springs Ahead or Falls Back, a bunch of my channels end up off by 1 or three hours, depending.

If I don't use DST, do I have to worry about the update, or not having the update?

Note to rest of country: DST is a fraud. NO daylight is saved. Every minute of daylight is used immediately; none is saved! ;-)


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

bicker said:


> Is there any way for unsubbed boxes to get this fix?


I'll have to put my S1 mfs backup image up for sale on ebay once I get the update...


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

Keep in mind that if this fix is along the lines of jberman's, people will see erroneous (off-by-1) times on either side of a DST change (in screens like guide, NPL, todo, recording history).

Yes, this is cosmetic, and yes, the manual recordings working properly are a bigger issue, but I'm sure there are quite a few people who are going to be confused/concerned by this


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Is that right? I though jberman's fix solved it all: manual recordings, cosmetic appearance, guide data appearance, etc.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

Unless I'm SORELY mistaken, if you look at Sunday's guide data on Saturday (before the change, obviously), the times will be off... same would be true of the todo list.
On Sunday, if you look in your NPL, your shows recorded previously will report having been recorded an hour off, also (unless they are shows from X months ago, before another DST change)

As I said, cosmetic but potentially confusing/concerning for those who don't understand or realize.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

bicker said:


> Is there any way for unsubbed boxes to get this fix?


The subscription gets you support. Without a subscription, you have no right to any updates, including this one. You can get the fix the hacker-way, by looking at the original thread and hacking the fixes in.

My S1 is not subscribed any longer and I don't expect any fixes. That was factored into my decision to transfer my subscription to my S2 (and later my S3).

.../Ed


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I thinking whoever is not subbed, could sub their machine, get the fix, then cancel their sub within 30 days to get their money back. But I guess that's kind of a cheater way to get the fix.


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

Has it been confirmed that Series 1 boxes with larger hard drives will not be goofed when the the update is pushed out?

I logged onto the TC today for the first time in a while, started reading from the end going backwards, saw the link to request the update, signed up for it and THEN later read some concerns about large drives. 

ooops.

I have two Phillips that came with a 20GB, were upgraded to 120GB and then later to 250GB. It'll be my own fault if they get goofed by download the update (having signed up for it before reading the zillion messages here), but I can't say I'll be happy about it ...


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

The latest post by TiVo Pony says this is not a full software update, meaning the kernel is not being replaced, so I'm thinking even large hard drives will be safe. I'm no expert though, but this is my inference.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

Ladd Morse said:


> Has it been confirmed that Series 1 boxes with larger hard drives will not be goofed when the the update is pushed out?


No, it's been confirmed that updates install the same version kernel they have been using with S1's, and that kernel is NOT lba48-aware

as always, upgrading an s1 with a large drive takes special handling


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

timckelley said:


> The latest post by TiVo Pony says this is not a full software update, meaning the kernel is not being replaced, so I'm thinking even large hard drives will be safe.


I wouldn't count on that... I'm not sure what (if any) mechanism is in place for an update that doesn't involve swapping partitions... if there IS a mechanism, then you're right, it'll probably leave the kernel alone.

Edit: found tivopony's post... if they truly have a working mechanism for this, then that's wonderful news for large disk users


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Well, I'm one of those people who signed up immediately before becoming aware of the large HD issue, but fortunatly, my HD is not that big, so I'm okay.


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## dhulcher (Feb 13, 2007)

TiVoPony said:


> As far as when the update would be applied to your box, that's more difficult to tell. Our 'safe' assumption is within three days of filling out the form you should have the update. Honestly it often can go much much faster than that. It is also gated by when your box calls the service and how many people sign up for the update. Given the number of variables, it's hard to predict an exact time.


After the download in the daily phone call, will the install/update be automatic or will there be some message notification first? Is a reboot involved in this update?


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

BTUx9 said:


> Unless I'm SORELY mistaken, if you look at Sunday's guide data on Saturday (before the change, obviously), the times will be off... same would be true of the todo list.
> On Sunday, if you look in your NPL, your shows recorded previously will report having been recorded an hour off, also (unless they are shows from X months ago, before another DST change)
> 
> As I said, cosmetic but potentially confusing/concerning for those who don't understand or realize.


BTUx9's right, I think. I can also confirm that, after applying the fix, shows recorded before the DST change are now showing as having been recorded an hour later than they actually were. I'm pretty sure that this (truly cosmetic) effect will go away after April 1. For me, though, this is _way_ preferable to manual recordings being off by an hour, and ditto for the live TV guide, for 4 weeks out of the year.

Correcting these effects would require some programming that's almost certainly buried deep in tivoapp. However, TiVo has always dealt with this well in the past. It's likely that there's an MFS flag for each recording that says "this program was recorded during daylight savings time" - and when that flag's set, if you're NOT currently in DST the displayed time of the recording is adjusted an hour backward relative to GMT. Or something like that. My brain gets in knots trying to wrap itself around all this stuff. 

*EDIT:* Unless... maybe if there's a way to rebuild the NPL in a way similar to how I rebuild the ToDo list..... checking into it.....


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

dhulcher said:


> After the download in the daily phone call, will the install/update be automatic or will there be some message notification first? Is a reboot involved in this update?


dhulcher -

My patch requires a reboot, plus a reindexing of the ToDo list (both of which the script handles for you). In the past, official software updates have waited until 2 am to reboot my TiVo. I'm guessing that this one will do the same, but only TivoPony could tell us for sure.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

jberman said:


> It's likely that there's an MFS flag for each recording that says "this program was recorded during daylight savings time" - and when that flag's set, if you're NOT currently in DST the displayed time of the recording is adjusted an hour backward relative to GMT. Or something like that. My brain gets in knots trying to wrap itself around all this stuff.


Nope... with the possible exception of manual recordings, all the times stored on the tivo are in GMT, and when they are displayed, they are converted to local time on the fly... it's THAT conversion that requires fixing, and if, as I believe, they are against releasing a true s/w upgrade, then it just ain't gonna BE fixed

(unlike your fix, I doubt they'll be changing back to a DST-based entry in April... good news in that it'll only require 2 changes/reboots a year... bad news in that times for anything in the opposite DST will be off)


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## Marconi (Sep 8, 2001)

TiVoPony said:


> As far as when the update would be applied to your box, that's more difficult to tell.
> 
> Cheers,
> Pony


I'm more curious about IF than when.

Will it be applied at all if I don't sign my Series 1 box up for it? That is, will it eventually be pushed out to all Series 1 boxes?

And still wondering if there are implications for those of us who do not use DST.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

Marconi said:


> I'm more curious about IF than when.
> 
> Will it be applied at all if I don't sign my Series 1 box up for it? That is, will it eventually be pushed out to all Series 1 boxes?
> 
> And still wondering if there are implications for those of us who do not use DST.


For the moment, only those who sign up will get the fix.
My guess is that IF this fix is pushed out globally, it'll be in november, after we return to standard time... if it's properly coded, the change shouldn't be applied to those in areas who don't have DST, but determining that COULD be a little tricky.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

BTUx9 said:


> Nope... with the possible exception of manual recordings, all the times stored on the tivo are in GMT, and when they are displayed, they are converted to local time on the fly... it's THAT conversion that requires fixing, and if, as I believe, they are against releasing a true s/w upgrade, then it just ain't gonna BE fixed
> 
> (unlike your fix, I doubt they'll be changing back to a DST-based entry in April... good news in that it'll only require 2 changes/reboots a year... bad news in that times for anything in the opposite DST will be off)


I agree... I'm just theorizing that a "recorded during DST" flag could be used to cosmetically update the on-screen data "on the fly" so that times appear correctly before/after the DST changeover. It would have nothing to do with the actual recording time. Maybe there's one in there, maybe not.... I'm not convinced that there's any way to find out.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

:up: :up: :up: to jberman and TiVo for coming up with and applying this fix! It's great to know that TiVo was still thinking about it and following the thread after their previous statements that there would be no fix.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

BTUx9 said:


> My guess is that IF this fix is pushed out globally, it'll be in november, after we return to standard time


But then in late October, which is when DST used to end, people without the fix would Fall back early.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

jberman said:


> I agree... I'm just theorizing that a "recorded during DST" flag could be used to cosmetically update the on-screen data "on the fly" so that times appear correctly before/after the DST changeover. It would have nothing to do with the actual recording time. Maybe there's one in there, maybe not.... I'm not convinced that there's any way to find out.


If there WAS such a flag, then we wouldn't be observing the effect that changing timezone has on the display of older times.

I can 100% guarantee that implementing such a flag would be much, MUCH more difficult than just fixing the current calculations, so is not a feasible alternative


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

BTUx9 said:


> Nope... with the possible exception of manual recordings, all the times stored on the tivo are in GMT, and when they are displayed, they are converted to local time on the fly...


I would think that manual recording "requests" are stored in local time, but the actual time of the manual record is stored in GMT then converted to local time upon display.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

manual recordings (at least repeated ones) DO have extra info, including local time to schedule, but I haven't looked into it to find out what/where.

re: November... I had been thinking that repeat manual recordings would have to be modified then, but this'll have to be done MUCH earlier... in April... I guess tivo could push the fix any time after that, since the manual recordings will be back to "proper time"


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

timckelley said:


> I thinking whoever is not subbed, could sub their machine, get the fix, then cancel their sub within 30 days to get their money back. But I guess that's kind of a cheater way to get the fix.


The fix is available regardless of subscription. Sign up one, sign up all (S1 standalone units only of course). There's no need to subscribe and cancel.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

BTUx9 said:


> If there WAS such a flag, then we wouldn't be observing the effect that changing timezone has on the display of older times.
> 
> I can 100% guarantee that implementing such a flag would be much, MUCH more difficult than just fixing the current calculations, so is not a feasible alternative


Yeah, you're right... but I just thought it would be worthwhile to investigate a little bit, if for no other reason than to learn a little more about how TiVo handles local times. I haven't come up with anything so far.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

OK, just a shot in the dark here (and I'm probably wrong), but is the official "fix" from tivo just going to be the time server lying to the tivo about what the current time is, based on serial#? (in that this wouldn't require any sort of update or modification of mfs)

Update: thinking further on it, that was a daft idea... lying about GMT would screw up ALL the guide data... *please disregard this post
*


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

So can somebody list the "caveats" with this workaround? This is just off the top of my head:

1) recorded shows (prior to DST patch) during the 3 week period (Mar 11-Apr 1) until real DST kicks in will *cosmetically display* as being recorded 1hr later than actual recording time. For example if you record Mar 10 "News at 11:30", after the patch it will display as recorded "Mar 11, 12:30" until real DST kicks in. Once real DST kicks in, everything will display correctly again. Same for the 1 week in November (Oct 28-Nov 4), shows recorded prior to Oct 28 will *cosmetically display* as being recorded 1hr later until TZ workaround can be disabled on Nov 4th.

2) for the TV guide, the current day should effectively always have the correct time displayed, but future dates (in the guide) may or may not have the correct time displayed. For example, on Mar 20, if you view the guide, all the displayed times will be correct, up to Apr 1st. Apr 1st (and future) guide times will be +1hr from actual, until the current day is Apr 1st, at which time, the displayed time will be correct again (because the TZ workaround can be disabled). Same +1hr for 1 week in November, ie for the period Oct 28 to Nov 4, the guide data for Nov 4th and onward will display as +1hr from actual, until Nov 4th, at which time the previously incorrectly displayed times will fix themselves.

On the plus side:

1) manual records will work without changes (unless you have already "adjusted" them to deal with the previous broken DST behavior)

2) program guide will display correct for most scenarios of usage

3) season pass/wishlists, just as before, will be unaffected, because they are based on your zip code (not TZ) and the guide data for your zip code is provided in GMT.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

BTUx9 said:


> OK, just a shot in the dark here (and I'm probably wrong), but is the official "fix" from tivo just going to be the time server lying to the tivo about what the current time is, based on serial#? (in that this wouldn't require any sort of update or modification of mfs)


I think lying about current (GMT) time would be a bad idea because there could be encryption, authorization, or authentication that depends on GMT time not being off more than some amount of time. I have no idea if S1 use such encryption (or other time-sensitive algorithms), but I know from past projects lying about GMT can cause worse unintended consequences (whereas most things that are time sensitive will not depend on local time, so you can lie all you want and it won't really break)


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

TiVoJerry said:


> The fix is available regardless of subscription. Sign up one, sign up all (S1 standalone units only of course). There's no need to subscribe and cancel.


:up:


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

sfhub said:


> I think lying about current (GMT) time would be a bad idea because there could be encryption, authorization, or authentication that depends on GMT time not being off more than some amount of time. I have no idea if S1 use such encryption (or other time-sensitive algorithms), but I know from past projects lying about GMT can cause worse unintended consequences (whereas most things that are time sensitive will not depend on local time, so you can lie all you want and it won't really break)


I very much doubt those issues apply... remember, S1 tivos are only designed to communicate with other computers during their "phone home", and at a very limited level.

Update: thinking further on it, that was a daft idea... lying about GMT would screw up ALL the guide data


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

BTUx9 said:


> I very much doubt those issues apply... remember, S1 tivos are only designed to communicate with other computers during their "phone home", and at a very limited level.


For example, does verification of your activation depend on the clocks not being off by more than a certain amount of seconds? I'm *not* asking rhetorically.  I actually don't know, but it is one example of past projects where lying about GMT caused problems.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

sfhub said:


> For example, does verification of your activation depend on the clocks not being off by more than a certain amount of seconds? I'm *not* asking rhetorically. I actually don't know, but it is one example of past projects where lying about GMT caused problems.


I sincerely doubt things on the tivo are time-critical in the way you are saying, but the point is moot in that, as I updated in my post, it won't work due to ALL guide data being in GMT

(though not IMPOSSIBLE, I just can't imagine the sort of problems involved in resetting all guide data to follow the changing clock... it'd be more than messy)


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## Rowsdower (Dec 11, 2002)

ewilts said:


> The subscription gets you support. Without a subscription, you have no right to any updates, including this one.


You're mistaken. Any user of a Series1 box sold without a subscription requirement is entitled to the same software updates provided to subscribed users of that model. This always has been true, and TiVoJerry has confirmed that it remains so.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

BTUx9 said:


> I sincerely doubt things on the tivo are time-critical in the way you are saying, but the point is moot in that, as I updated in my post, it won't work due to ALL guide data being in GMT
> 
> (though not IMPOSSIBLE, I just can't imagine the sort of problems involved in resetting all guide data to follow the changing clock... it'd be more than messy)


Basically given TiVo's statement, I'm sure there is a way for them to make minor changes without using the full software other partition method.

I know on Replay's they have steps in the connection process where they can update the IR database and add some scripting without doing the full software upgrade method.

BTW on ReplayTV's the NTP time update is so critical for operations to work that the process of setting the time is public/private key verified. One common reason activation systems depend on time being set properly and not being lied about is to prevent the indefinite activation problem (ie setting your clock back on your PC to get your antivirus software working again)


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

sfhub said:


> Basically given TiVo's statement, I'm sure there is a way for them to make minor changes without using the full software other partition method.
> 
> I know on Replay's they have steps in the connection process where they can update the IR database and add some scripting without doing the full software upgrade method.
> 
> BTW on ReplayTV's the NTP time update is so critical for operations to work that the process of setting the time is public/private key verified.


tivo uses key verification on just about everything they can to try to prevent hacking (especially hacking without having to crack the case)... I imagine replaytv is doing the same thing


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

BTUx9 said:


> tivo uses key verification on just about everything they can to try to prevent hacking (especially hacking without having to crack the case)... I imagine replaytv is doing the same thing


ReplayTV only does that on the application files, but not the files that are considered "data". That is one reason people have been able to add IR data files to control STBs the original software wasn't able to.

However I'm not sure which part of my quote you are responding to, whether TiVo can update the system without doing a full upgrade, or that ReplayTV is doing public/private key to verify the NTP time update.

I think I'll stop now as we are getting too way off topic.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

So has anybody received the official TiVo patch yet? If so, what effect did it have on your TiVo, other than fixing the time? I'm particulatly interested in whether or not it wiped out /var.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> Excellent questions, I'm trying to get the answers for you. Until I get everything confirmed, I'd suggest that you hold off on signing up for this if:
> 
> * You reran guided setup as a temporary fix
> * You took the script that was posted on the forum here and applied it to your box.
> ...


Ok, in both of the above cases, you should either pass on taking the update from TiVo or revert the changes you've made before taking the update. Basically the update from TiVo would 'stack' with any change you'd previously made yourself, and you'd be off by an hour again.

Pony


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> Ok, in both of the above cases, you should either pass on taking the update from TiVo or revert the changes you've made before taking the update. Basically the update from TiVo would 'stack' with any change you'd previously made yourself, and you'd be off by an hour again.


Great info... thanks for following up on this!

For users of my original script, you should remove the crontab entries (if you made any), then run DSTFallBack.tcl (which I've since renamed DST_off.tcl) to undo the changes, then *MAKE SURE YOU REBOOT* before you get the update!

I believe this process won't be necessary if you wait until after April 1 to download the official patch... just make sure you remove the crontab entries.

_Edit:_ Actually, the more I think about it, the less I'm sure what will happen if you wait after April 1. You might need to roll back the changes made by my patch after all. It depends on the inner workings of TiVo's version, which I'm not privy to. In any case, since the effect is cumulative, if necessary you should be able to remove my patch after April 1 without a problem.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

BTUx9 said:


> OK, just a shot in the dark here (and I'm probably wrong), but is the official "fix" from tivo just going to be the time server lying to the tivo about what the current time is, based on serial#? (in that this wouldn't require any sort of update or modification of mfs)
> 
> Update: thinking further on it, that was a daft idea... lying about GMT would screw up ALL the guide data... *please disregard this post
> *


Actually, you may be on to something there... but not about GMT, about the _offset_ from GMT. I just noticed the following warning about the new official patch:



http://tivo.com/dst said:


> If you should Repeat Guided Setup for any reason between the time your Series1 DVR receives the update and April 1, your TiVo DVR may display the wrong time until its next connection to the TiVo service.


Hmmmm.... interesting............


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## tedede (Nov 13, 2003)

Will this update require a daily call over the phone line? My daily calls go out over broadband via a cachecard.


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

the phone call just connects to an internet access point... the 2 types of calls are functionally equivalent once connected to the network.


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## Joe Smith (Aug 1, 2003)

jberman said:


> I agree... I'm just theorizing that a "recorded during DST" flag could be used to cosmetically update the on-screen data "on the fly" so that times appear correctly before/after the DST changeover. It would have nothing to do with the actual recording time. Maybe there's one in there, maybe not.... I'm not convinced that there's any way to find out.


Since TiVo is running Linux, I expect it uses the old POSIX way of translating GMT (seconds since 1-Jan-1970) to human readable form. Unlike Microsoft, which has a single rule that is used for all dates (past and future) regardless of year, the POSIX way has a set of several rules. Each rule includes a definition of which year the rule was active.

The Now Showing list does not have a DST flag, does not have the local date/time of when the recording started. It has the time of recording stored in GMT. When you bring up the Now Showing list, all those times are converted to local time using a specific set of rules and the timezone + DST preferences.

The proper fix is going to be a change to the set of rules for calculating when DST starts/ends. Either in a shared library or in the TiVo app itself. Then, when the settings are reset to actual timezone + DST preferences, all the old dates will be displayed correctly. That includes programs recorded a year ago that when the 1987 to 2006 rule was in effect.


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## wickerbill (Apr 4, 2002)

Thanks for doing this. It's nice to see Tivo taking care of their customers, even if it's a little late. I still love my series 1 so it's nice to see that Tivo's still supporting it.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

*One thing to note:* the connection that downloads this update _will not display_ as "succeeded". It will show something to the effect of "loading. phone not in use" up until the time it reboots (3am in this particular instance). If you want to restart it yourself, I suggest waiting at least 15-30 minutes after this status is displayed just to play it safe.


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## pokegol (Feb 24, 2003)

I'm thinking of taking an image backup of my TiVo after the DST patch loads. That way if the hard drive craps out, I won't have to remember to reapply the DST patch (if its even still available at that time).


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

OK, I'm signed up, and my S1 has never been fixed and is running the original kernel. Do you want me to have manual recordings for any specific times? (I'll put some back in, maybe around the 3am time TivoJerry mentioned earlier, and my regular ones.)

Also, I think the ReplayTV server sends the DST & timezone info. during guided setup. Modifying that WOULD be a good solution, as it would not impact UTC. Replay users had to just rerun guided setup, and that fixed their units. ReplayTV also had the advantage (?) of having ALL of their units have the same bug, so they could monkry around with the guide data as a plan B.

If Tivo POPs can't distinguish between S1s and the other units, they can't monkey with the guide data at all.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

Joe Smith said:


> Since TiVo is running Linux, I expect it uses the old POSIX way of translating GMT (seconds since 1-Jan-1970) to human readable form. Unlike Microsoft, which has a single rule that is used for all dates (past and future) regardless of year, the POSIX way has a set of several rules. Each rule includes a definition of which year the rule was active.
> 
> The Now Showing list does not have a DST flag, does not have the local date/time of when the recording started. It has the time of recording stored in GMT. When you bring up the Now Showing list, all those times are converted to local time using a specific set of rules and the timezone + DST preferences.
> 
> The proper fix is going to be a change to the set of rules for calculating when DST starts/ends. Either in a shared library or in the TiVo app itself. Then, when the settings are reset to actual timezone + DST preferences, all the old dates will be displayed correctly. That includes programs recorded a year ago that when the 1987 to 2006 rule was in effect.


Great post, very informative. Thank you!


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

jevo said:


> Um, not to state the obvious, but SUBSCRIBE!!!!


Nah, it's not worth it. I don't really use the S1 at all. I was just interested in perhaps keeping it up-to-date in case I want to sell it or give it away. Again, it was just an idle question. If the answer was "yes" then I'd dig the thing out and make a phone call. Otherwise, no problem.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

TiVoJerry said:


> The fix is available regardless of subscription. Sign up one, sign up all (S1 standalone units only of course). There's no need to subscribe and cancel.


Okay, so if we have an unsubbed box, we just need to sign up, make a call, and it will get the fix?


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

jberman said:


> Actually, you may be on to something there... but not about GMT, about the _offset_ from GMT. I just noticed the following warning about the new official patch:
> 
> 
> http://tivo.com/dst said:
> ...


Yeah, Id been offline a few days, so the first notice I got of this new workaround came from a message on my TiVo, but when I went to tivo.com and read that caveat, I knew immediately, even before I read it here, that this update was based on your ideas and the ensuing discussions in these forums. (Kudos to TiVo, Inc. for being honest about that, though!)

Im just guessing at this point, of course, but it looks like TiVos engineers are basically doing a server-side implementation of your scripts, and then pushing TZ/DST info to the boxes as part of the daily calls. This could be done as follows:

If, while DST is in effect (currently second Sunday March to first Sunday November), an upgraded box reports to the server that DST is enabled on that box, a server-side DST flag would be set, and the unit would be told to advance its TZ an hour and turn off DST. Turning off DST on the box would remove guide discrepancies at the old change dates in April and October and disable further TZ adjustments from the server.

The server side flag, meanwhile, could only be cleared by rerunning GS, which would cause the unit to revert to its original understanding of TZ/DST until the positive DST flag caused the server to adjust it again during the next daily call. (It would be more seamless if the TZ manipulations were restored by the second GS call, itself, of course; its not clear whether this is impossible because the box does not report TZ info during setup  it wouldnt have to, I dont think  or whether this is simply a work in progress and that will come later. The caveat does say may, not will.)

On the first Sunday in November, the server would push correct TZ info to those boxes whose server side flags are set, including turning on the DST flag on the box itself to disable further updates, as in the Spring. And so on, ever after, whenever the time actually changes, as may be determined by Congress.

The nice thing about such a workaround is that its version independent and relatively safe, because it doesnt require updating any files on the boxes at all. As long as you can push TZ/DST settings to the boxes from the server, youre all set.

But lets be clear that this IS a workarounds, not a fix. Guide times will still be wrong around time change dates. Joe Smith is right that a proper fix would require changing the logic by which DST start/end dates are determined. But I also think BTUx9 is right that, unfortunately, this logic is buried deep in the app where its inaccessible to o.s. or server manipulation, so we may never see a proper fix.

That said, many thanks to jberman and to TiVo for the workaround!


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## technomutt (Jun 14, 2004)

TiVoJerry said:


> It is our expectation that this will be automatically included in the future, making future messaging unnecessary.


Going from the sublime to the completely ridiculous, I must ask: Will this include a fix for the Year 2038 problem?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem

Gee, how many Series 1 units will still be alive then????


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

joblo said:


> Im just guessing at this point, of course, but it looks like TiVos engineers are basically doing a server-side implementation of your scripts, and then pushing TZ/DST info to the boxes as part of the daily calls. This could be done as follows:


Very well described. The only thing that I would add is that, if you're right, presumably the displayed time will still be an hour off between 2 am on the old DST change date (this coming October 28, for example) and the next time you do a daily call. Not a big deal to people who call in every day, but if that is the case, it's somewhat bad news for people who are using their boxes as digital VCRs, who would now need to call in four times a year to have the clock corrected. Still a vast improvement over the previous situation, though! :up:


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

JB...

A question if you please. (TiVoJerry and TiVoPony are free to answer as well.)

As far as you can tell, will this change that TiVo's implementing cause any problems for people with larger drives that were given the "kernel" difference some people are talking about?

According to Weaknees, their ready-to-go drives don't change the kernel, so machines using them should be safe.

Problem is, I'm only certain about one of my machines having a Weaknees drive.

The other was upgraded by the previous owner, and I have NO idea what method he used.

If that one's kernel WAS changed, am I in trouble with your/TiVo's DST update method?


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

It's been posted (by one of the tivo ppl) that the fix will NOT interfere with lba48 kernels.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

BTUx9 said:


> It's been posted (by one of the tivo ppl) that the fix will NOT interfere with lba48 kernels.


Thank you.


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

jberman said:


> The only thing that I would add is that, if you're right, presumably the displayed time will still be an hour off between 2 am on the old DST change date (this coming October 28, for example) and the next time you do a daily call.


No, that will happen at the *new* change date in November, not the old change date. Everything should function normally at the old changes dates, both Spring and Fall, because the internal DST logic should be disabled on the box at both of those times.



> Not a big deal to people who call in every day, but if that is the case, it's somewhat bad news for people who are using their boxes as digital VCRs, who would now need to call in four times a year to have the clock corrected. Still a vast improvement over the previous situation, though! :up:


Well, if they disable the internal DST logic as Im suggesting, it should only require two calls a year, not four. But I have three such unsubscribed boxes, and my plan for those boxes was to rerun GS twice a year unless/until I got around to hacking them to the point where I could use your scripts. So even for those boxes, I think this is indeed an improvement! :up:

Re potential display *and recording errors* between the actual time changes and the subsequent daily call, there are several ways that could be handled, and TiVo has until November to settle on one.

The first and best way, if possible, would be to delay any pushed TZ/DST change events so they dont take place until the actual time change at 2 am. Although cron isnt part of the S1 software, the whole app is schedule based, so perhaps theres a similar scheduling mechanism within the app that they could use. We know they can schedule reboots at 2 am, whether they can delay other events, I dont know.

I do think its important not to tie a TZ change solely to reboots, though, because you dont want a daily call on Saturday morning or afternoon to schedule a reboot for TZ update at 2 am Sunday, only to have the time change early Saturday evening because theres thunderstorm and a power flicker. People expect things to go wrong immediately *after* a time change, so theyll tend to be forgiving about that. But they dont expect things to go wrong *before* the change, so that would be more likely to increase the volume (pun intended) of complaint calls to CSRs. Plus Saturday evening is date night, when people are most likely to be depending on TiVo to do their TV watching for them.

A second thing TiVo might be able to do is cluster daily calls in the 2 am to 6 am timeframe. Replay does this all the time, but perhaps TiVo could do it only for the time change dates in March and November, and if server load is a concern, perhaps they could disable program downloads during those time periods, so that the servers could handle a higher volume of calls at those times.

A third option would be to simply message people that the time display and repeating manual recordings might not be correct until Sundays daily call, and advise those with manual repeating recordings on Sunday morning to force a daily call early on Sunday.

Or fourthly, they could re-enable the clock setting functionality in the test calls and add TZ/DST pushing to those, so that people with affected recordings could make test calls on Sunday morning and/or the servers could force 2 am test calls instead of reboots or daily program calls.

As I said, TiVos engineers have many months to consider their options, but I think any forum readers who have ideas about this should definitely post, because it sure looks like they could use all the help they can get.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

joblo said:


> No, that will happen at the *new* change date in November, not the old change date. Everything should function normally at the old changes dates, both Spring and Fall, because the internal DST logic should be disabled on the box at both of those times.


Oh yeah, you're right. You know, I spent a lot of time working on the effects of this DST change in the healthcare environment, and sometimes I _still_ have trouble wrapping my mind around all the details!


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

BTUx9 said:


> It's been posted (by one of the tivo ppl) that the fix will NOT interfere with lba48 kernels.


Yup... and if the fix that TiVo's implementing is anything close to what joblo outlined (which makes a lot of sense), you shouldn't have to worry about your kernel.


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

technomutt said:


> Going from the sublime to the completely ridiculous, I must ask: Will this include a fix for the Year 2038 problem?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
> 
> Gee, how many Series 1 units will still be alive then????


If my Series 1 is still alive in 2038, I hope I am around and still be able understand how to use it since I'll be 95 years old.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

jberman said:


> Oh yeah, you're right. You know, I spent a lot of time working on the effects of this DST change in the healthcare environment, and sometimes I _still_ have trouble wrapping my mind around all the details!


I can verify that applies to the retail and manufacturing areas too. Weird stuff happens to databases when they go back in time...


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

joblo said:


> Well, if they disable the internal DST logic as Im suggesting, it should only require two calls a year, not four. But I have three such unsubscribed boxes, and my plan for those boxes was to rerun GS twice a year unless/until I got around to hacking them to the point where I could use your scripts. So even for those boxes, I think this is indeed an improvement! :up:


That suggestion does however greatly increase the time period of "cosmetic" display errors on the already recorded shows.

Basically with that suggestion, for the whole period of DST any recorded shows will display as being recorded +1hr from actual local time. So if you recorded Mar 10 "News at 11:30", it would show up as Mar 11 12:30 as the recorded time. With the 4 call version, you only experience those cosmetic errors during/around the 3 weeks in spring and 1 week in fall.

Whether that is important to somebody is left to someone else to determine.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

Hello -

Just a quick update to confirm that we received the DST patch from TiVo on one of our networked HDR units (also with a modified kernel to support large drives).

Everything appears to have worked fine and since it was not a full software update it did not overwrite any changes whatsoever. After the script downloaded, the phone information screen did stay in the "loading data" state for some time. Perhaps I was impatient, but after about 20 minutes, I rebooted the unit, the scripts ran from /var/packages and the times on the unit are now listed correctly.

For those with networked units that want to see the scripts, check in /var/packages after you've made your daily call. 

I think its great that TiVo was able to release a 'patch' that does not require a full release of the software; very quick and very easy. 

Thanks!

Lou


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

tivoupgrade said:


> For those with networked units that want to see the scripts, check in /var/packages after you've made your daily call.


Would you mind posting the scripts?


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## biker (Jan 8, 2001)

tivoupgrade said:


> Hello -
> 
> Just a quick update to confirm that we received the DST patch from TiVo on one of our networked HDR units (also with a modified kernel to support large drives).
> 
> ...


It's stays on loading data and phone not in use to you reboot or 3am reboot.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

sfhub said:


> Would you mind posting the scripts?


I would be happy to post the scripts, however there is a TiVo copyright notice on the top of them. I will attempt to get permission, but if I do not post them, please understand why...


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

biker said:


> It's stays on loading data and phone not in use to you reboot or 3am reboot.


Sorry; is this a question? Are you asking whether I rebooted or waited? If so, I did not wait. But I did see a timer function in the script that would imply that the unit would have rebooted at some point. Again, had I been more patient, the "loading data" may have gone away on its own and turned into a "Pending restart..." however I became suspicious when I didn't see a % indicator like one usually does after a daily call is made.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your comment; please repost if necessary.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

tivoupgrade said:


> Sorry; is this a question? Are you asking whether I rebooted or waited? If so, I did not wait. But I did see a timer function in the script that would imply that the unit would have rebooted at some point. Again, had I been more patient, the "loading data" may have gone away on its own and turned into a "Pending restart..." however I became suspicious when I didn't see a % indicator like one usually does after a daily call is made.
> 
> I'm sorry if I misunderstood your comment; please repost if necessary.


From this thread



TiVoJerry said:


> *One thing to note:* the connection that downloads this update _will not display_ as "succeeded". It will show something to the effect of "loading. phone not in use" up until the time it reboots (3am in this particular instance). If you want to restart it yourself, I suggest waiting at least 15-30 minutes after this status is displayed just to play it safe.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4968137&&#post4968137


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

cherry ghost said:


> From this thread
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4968137&&#post4968137


Oh, excellent. Thank you. Then everything IS working as it should be (and shame on me for not reading the whole thread first).


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

sfhub said:


> That suggestion does however greatly increase the time period of "cosmetic" display errors on the already recorded shows.


Right, and theres an analogous, non-cosmetic issue with future recordings, but Id like to see what the scripts do before getting into that.



> Basically with that suggestion, for the whole period of DST any recorded shows will display as being recorded +1hr from actual local time. So if you recorded Mar 10 "News at 11:30", it would show up as Mar 11 12:30 as the recorded time. With the 4 call version, you only experience those cosmetic errors during/around the 3 weeks in spring and 1 week in fall.


Yes, but then youd have cosmetic errors on programs recorded during those 4 weeks for the other 48 weeks of the year.

So youll always have some display errors, unless TiVo bites the bullet and fixes the internal DST logic.

But again, lets see what the scripts actually do. Ive configured two of my four units, one subscribed and one not, to take the patch, but I didnt get on the list until today, so I might not actually see this thing in operation until sometime next week. Until then, Ill reserve judgment.


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## Haxx (Feb 25, 2003)

I have two lifetimed Series I's. One's a Philips, the other a Sony (SVR-2000). I signed them both up yesterday for the DST patch. Sometime this afternoon I forced a daily call on my first one (Philips). I did get an update that ended with the Philips saying what one of the TiVo reps said would happen, "loading". I waited for a little more than 30 minutes, restarted it and voila, the time and guide had the correct local time.

I then made a daily call on my Sony. It too rec'd an update and proceeded with loading it. After it was done, I waited what I believe to be anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes. I then restarted it. After the restart the time and guide are correct. However, it's behaving like it is not getting a signal! :-(

I forced another daily call thinking I did something wrong. I waited a while again and did another restart and still no signal.

I am at a loss. Before the restart I know for a fact I was getting a signal, because I remember thinking why wasn't a scheduled show being recorded. I checked and realized it's because CBS is showing basketball this afternoon.

The only thing hacked with this TiVo is a larger hard drive, nothing more than that. I can still watch already recorded shows, even ones recorded today.

TiVo/Community, please help!


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## Haxx (Feb 25, 2003)

Crisis averted. I unplugged the unit and then powered back up. That seemed to fix it. I can now get my signal.

Thanks for the DST patch!


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

sfhub said:


> Would you mind posting the scripts?


It basically consolidates the functionality of both jberman's scripts combined into one with lots of additional validation. It makes sure you use DST before it makes any change and has logic to automatically figure what change to make, including the EST special case.

Thanks Derek and Marcel!


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## vinniet (Jun 21, 2002)

I got my update today for my Tivo S1 and it is work perfectly. I have a unit that is not activated any more. I use it of a few manual recordings.

Just wanted to let anyone out there with a golden S1 unit like mine, Tivo updated mine two days after I put my service number on the priority site.


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## biker (Jan 8, 2001)

tivoupgrade said:


> Sorry; is this a question? Are you asking whether I rebooted or waited? If so, I did not wait. But I did see a timer function in the script that would imply that the unit would have rebooted at some point. Again, had I been more patient, the "loading data" may have gone away on its own and turned into a "Pending restart..." however I became suspicious when I didn't see a % indicator like one usually does after a daily call is made.
> 
> I'm sorry if I misunderstood your comment; please repost if necessary.


I was just pointing out what TivoJerry said so you know that it would stay on loading data instead of pending restart.


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

What sort of change is noted on some screen somewhere so that I will know that the DST patch has been download/applied/rebooted and I can then revert my manual recordings back to there proper time?


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## Opusnbill7 (Sep 12, 2000)

Ladd Morse said:


> What sort of change is noted on some screen somewhere so that I will know that the DST patch has been download/applied/rebooted and I can then revert my manual recordings back to there proper time?


Well...the most obvious thing I could think of is that when you look at the time in the upper-right corner when you change channels, it will be correct instead of off by an hour...


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I just applied it to my Philips HDR-612 and it seems to work fine. It shows the correct time under System Information and on the top right corner of the online guide when I press the Live TV button so I assume it worked fine.


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## dhulcher (Feb 13, 2007)

Ladd Morse said:


> What sort of change is noted on some screen somewhere so that I will know that the DST patch has been download/applied/rebooted and I can then revert my manual recordings back to there proper time?


Review this post.

Yesterday I received the patch after manually running multiple daily calls. I waited at least an hour after the "loading, phone not in use message" appeared (being really cautious), then manually rebooted. The time was updated correctly. After reboot, the phone message shows a call unsuccessful/uncompleted message, so I ran another daily call to clear that, and that worked.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

sbourgeo said:


> It basically consolidates the functionality of both jberman's scripts combined into one with lots of additional validation. It makes sure you use DST before it makes any change and has logic to automatically figure what change to make, including the EST special case.


Thanks for posting the specifics.

It is just good to know how something is implemented so we can know the caveats.

So this is essentially the TZ-offset workaround with extra validation.

Infinitely better than what was there before. Thanks jberman, et al.


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## RARamaker (Dec 1, 2000)

TiVoPony said:


> Our engineers had worked on the problem, and had not come up with a solution that would take care of all Series1 standalone systems.
> Pony


How disappointing that TiVo was able to fix the Series 1 DirecTV TiVos, but not the SA TiVo (the ones you still pay $12.95/mo for). Please don't insult us by saying that no solution could be found. The solution consists of changing the formula for computing the daylight savings times.

What TiVoPony obviously meant was that no solution could be found that didn't involve a full software update. This is likely expensive to download this over a modem and the accountants said NO.

Let's stop pretending that the change was hard or even significantly different from the Series 2 fix. It was purely a financial decision.

This new fix, developed by a member of the community, was just the opportunity the engineers needed to convince management that they could do a low cost update.

In the future, I wish TiVo would come clean about the support that we can expect on Series 1 machines.

Russ


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## yelapa (Nov 18, 2003)

We have an ancient Sony SVR 2000 with an added 100Gig drive upgrade and we ordered the DST patch. It was apparently downloaded this morning (3/17/07) at 11:00 by phone, a different time than the usual 2:00 a.m. schedule update.

For several hours, the status of the "Phone Connection" was said to be "Loading Data" with no change to the 1 hour error situation, but no other problems either. Finally, at 7:00 p.m. I decided to turn the machine off (pull the plug) for one minute to see if this would change anything. We have a new TiVO on order and due to arrive on Monday, so if I hosed the machine, what the heck?.

The result? Total joy. Everything is now as it should be. Time is now correct and all programs on the To Do list have "sprung forward" one hour.

Y


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

KInd of weird thing happened. I've been waiting to get the patch. I just walked in and saw the TiVo was recording after 3:00 AM something that was suppose to end at 1:00 AM. And, the TiVo had restarted at 3:00 AM on the dot so that there were 2 listings for what it was recording in the Now Playing List: one listing from 11:00 PM - 3:00 AM and one listing from 3:00 AM - the current time. So why was the recording so long and why did TiVo restart at 3:00 AM? Is it a coincidence that the patch came in during this time?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RARamaker said:


> Please don't insult us by saying that no solution could be found.


It is interesting how fixated some folks are about wording, and yet research shows that often customers *respond* best to wording that they seem to *complain* the most about, i.e., that customers' purchasing behaviors belie the content of what they whine about. In another forum, this morning, we're talking about the effects of a restaurant greeter providing information about how long of a wait it will be for a table. In that case, evidently the more positive the greeter is about the impending dining experience, the better, yet online people love to complain about how "false" and how "ridiculous" it sounds for the greeter to try to make a guest feel enthusiastic about a wait for a table. Yet, there it is; what we *do* is radically different what what we *say* we'll do.


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## RARamaker (Dec 1, 2000)

bicker said:


> It is interesting how fixated some folks are about wording, and yet research shows that often customers *respond* best to wording that they seem to *complain* the most about, i.e., that customers' purchasing behaviors belie the content of what they whine about. In another forum, this morning, we're talking about the effects of a restaurant greeter providing information about how long of a wait it will be for a table. In that case, evidently the more positive the greeter is about the impending dining experience, the better, yet online people love to complain about how "false" and how "ridiculous" it sounds for the greeter to try to make a guest feel enthusiastic about a wait for a table. Yet, there it is; what we *do* is radically different what what we *say* we'll do.


I have no idea what your point is. My point was that TiVo very likely knows the real fix to the problem, but is unwilling to provide it due to the cost. I just think they should admit it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RARamaker said:


> I have no idea what your point is. My point was that TiVo very likely knows the real fix to the problem, but is unwilling to provide it due to the cost. I just think they should admit it.


yah that big lie of sending anyone that asks a fix for DST on the S1 is just such a worse way to go.


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## osterber (Feb 13, 2001)

Just to add my comments -- great job all around everyone. This is good work. Round of drinks on me!

-Rick


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

RARamaker said:


> My point was that TiVo very likely knows the real fix to the problem, but is unwilling to provide it due to the cost. I just think they should admit it.


How much will saying things the way *you* want them to say thing improve their bottom line? Understand that the way you want them to say things is your personal preference, and there isn't even any indication whatsoever that even *you* will respond better to them wording things the way you suggest. You're asserting your way is better -- I'm saying you haven't proved that, and you're probably wrong.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

RARamaker said:


> I have no idea what your point is. My point was that TiVo very likely knows the real fix to the problem, but is unwilling to provide it due to the cost. I just think they should admit it.


I've worked at a company where they blamed the engineers when it was really a management decision. Basically, managment didn't give enough money to investigate the problem, then when the money ran out, engineering got blamed for not finding a fix. It was rather embarrasing for the company and hurt morale.

Here, Tivo has admitted that it was totally incompetent. It couldn't make a basic fix in its software for one of its formerly premier products. It couldn't even conceive of the work-around that they are distributing now. Did Tivo lose the source code? Is the code "spaghetti code" (i.e. so poorly written and difficult to follow that it is impossible for a new programmer to modify it)? Did they try really hard to fix it? And why aren't there any programmers or systems engineers from the S1 development team left in the company?

It's nice that they (most likely) didn't lie, and a fix (incomplete, but good enough) is indeed coming. But why do I still feel a little unsettled?


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> It's nice that they (most likely) didn't lie, and a fix (incomplete, but good enough) is indeed coming. But why do I still feel a little unsettled?


Because if it weren't for the TCF hackers, the series 1 would not be supported?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Basically it really sounds like, for whatever reason, TiVo is very adverse to sending out a full software update for S1 units. There are many theories why that may be the case, but only TiVo people will know which ones are relevant. From the outside, we just know to really start worrying if the only fix for a problem would also require a full software download, because that appears to be sticky point with TiVo.

It sounds like all their investigation involved ways to resolve the DST problem which specifically did not require a full software download.

How do we know this? Because many people on this thread have reasonable amounts of software development background and realize that changing the effective dates of an *existing mechanism* is a much simpler change than implementing a new mechanism. If the dates are hard coded into the code it is a relatively simple matter to update those hard coded dates. The hardest part would probably be recompling the code and setting it up for distribution.

It would be slightly more complex to "fix" it for real and externalize the DST calculations completely, but that wouldn't be necessary for a quick fix that would satisfy the vast majority of customers.

Anyway, it looks like they had some amount of tunnel vision regarding DST and didn't realize a TZ offset could be used to simulate a DST change (with some minor cosmetic issues)

I'm glad they did the right thing once this was pointed out to them.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

sfhub said:


> I'm glad they did the right thing once this was pointed out to them.


Once it was pointed out to them, they didn't have much of a choice.


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

I'm glad TiVo did choose to implement jberman's (thanks!) fix. But in the proof that people can be very petty and anything can be complained about... I was excited to see my S1 say "Pending Restart"


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

technomutt said:


> Going from the sublime to the completely ridiculous, I must ask: Will this include a fix for the Year 2038 problem?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
> 
> Gee, how many Series 1 units will still be alive then????


I intend to keep mine alive until then and I DEMAND support!


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## Btrman (Apr 14, 2003)

I received the update, but lost a whole bunch of channels. I have DirecTV but the stand alone Tivo wouldnt show any HBO channels or aobve and some other channels like DIY (230). So then I tried GUIDED setup, which got stuck at 64% for a long time, so I pulled plug, turned back on and started again. Cant wait to see how long it takes, or if it completes


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## Opusnbill7 (Sep 12, 2000)

So....I noticed that all of the shows for 4/1 and after (i.e. a week from this coming sunday) are showing an hour LATE now (when the original DST would have happened). Will Tivo be sending out another "fix" at some point to adjust this, or what will happen? Just wondering...


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

looks like tivo opted for the 4 changes per year... I THINK it could've been done with 2, but they probably have their reasons.


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## Carriere (Mar 17, 2007)

For what it's worth, I would like to thank Jberman for figuring the fix out, the Tivo Community for shining the bright light, and TiVoJerry and TiVoPony and the rest at TiVo for implementing this fix.

All I'd like for my TiVo for Christmas, now, is the ability to add Canadian Postal Codes to my HDR112 so that I can use my subscription to get Canadian program listings.

Merry Christmas.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

Carriere said:


> All I'd like for my TiVo for Christmas, now, is the ability to add Canadian Postal Codes to my HDR112 so that I can use my subscription to get Canadian program listings.


Carriere -

Have you checked out this site? http://tivoza.nanfo.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ_/_Series_1_LocationID

Looks like it might have a solution to your problem.


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## Carriere (Mar 17, 2007)

jberman said:


> Carriere -
> 
> Have you checked out this site? http://tivoza.nanfo.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ_/_Series_1_LocationID
> 
> Looks like it might have a solution to your problem.


Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I had tried it and had lots of problems. It's the reason I delayed putting my posting up until last night instead of last week. I wanted to resolve the emuProxyZA issues before I signed up for the DST fix. I would not recommend emuProxyZA for Canadian Postal Codes. (Keep in mind that I'm a Linux rookie and maybe someone more expert may have success.) I'm looking forward to the DST update taking effect in the next day or so.

Regarding the DST fix, I don't keep my TiVo connected to a phone line because a daily call is unnecessary without Canadian Postal Codes and so no Canadian guide data. I only connect to the TiVo service to reset the clock whenever I see that the clock has drifted too much. If I'm reading the forum correctly, every spring I'll need to set the clock twice and every fall I'll need to set the clock twice (assuming the government sticks the new DST days). Is this correct? Not a big deal and much more convenient than changing all of my manual programming, especially when you consider that all of my programming is manual due to no Canadian guide data.

=======

Here's another thought... why don't some of us Series 1 customers put some money where our mouths are? The way I look at it is TiVo has made the decision to not provide software updates for business reasons and that at this stage its up to the TiVo User Community to help create a business case to change this. What I'm suggesting is that the User Community put together a list of items that we would like to have updated in the software and back it up with a voluntary payment to TiVo. Its been several years since the last software update so I think everyone knows what they would like on their Series 1 software update wish-list off the top of their heads. There could be some sort of voting to ensure a quality list of items. There would also need to be some way to make the payments in a secure place, where it could be refunded if TiVo doesn't take us up on the offer.

What's in it for TiVo? A way to settle many people's concerns about updates that we would really like to see. TiVo could also use it as a stake in the ground as far as no other updates. Clearly, TiVo's responsiveness to the Series 1 customer base would go very far. Current Series 2 customers and new customers to TiVo are looking at how the Series 1 customers are being treated and I'm sure that TiVo must know that it is in TiVo's best interests to treat Series 1 customers well. (This is not to say I don't think that we are being treated well - in fact my opinion is that we are, given the current constraints e.g. DST fix).

I really don't know if there would be enough interest for TiVo to take this seriously. But it can't hurt to try. What would a reasonable amount be? $10? $20? If its $10 and 5,000 users, it would be $50k. I don't know if it would cover all of the development costs, but maybe TiVo would top off the shortfall.

For my wish list, my #1 item would be incorporating the ability to enter Canadian Postal Codes during Guided Setup (not surprizing, I'm sure, given my Christmas wish exchange with jberman).

Another item that may be useful is the DST update. As I understand it at a very high level, the current fix has been based on the requirement for no software update. What if we don't have that constraint? Would it be better for the software to be updated now in some way (maybe change the way the sofware uses the time from the server) so that if there is a decision to change DST again, TiVo can affect the change without any change to the software and in a way that it is transparent to the end-user? My point is less about how the optimal solution could work (a discussion point unto itself I expect), and more that maybe we could have an even better fix if we are not constrained by the latest software release.

I know that there are many people who firmly believe that the subscriptions, original purchase prices, etc. should pay for the development costs for any Series 1 updates. If that is the view, I completely respect that. In anticipation of that, I have donned my flame-retardent suit for those who think I'm completely off my rocker and feel compelled to say so.


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## Mars (Sep 13, 2001)

I'd like to see Series 1 and 2 TiVos be able to change channels on the new OTA digital tv converter boxes. My Winegard box has a serial port as well as IR remote control. Since the TiVos are already doing this with cable and satellite boxes seems this would be possible with the existing hardware, and I would be willing to put up a few ponys to pay for it. I use my TiVo in my RV all summer watching from a OTA antenna and will need this.


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## Alcatraz (Nov 22, 2000)

If you want to put together a wishlist of items for series1, you might want to make it a new thread instead of putting it at the end of this one. Just a thought....


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

Mars said:


> I'd like to see Series 1 and 2 TiVos be able to change channels on the new OTA digital tv converter boxes. My Winegard box has a serial port as well as IR remote control. Since the TiVos are already doing this with cable and satellite boxes seems this would be possible with the existing hardware, and I would be willing to put up a few ponys to pay for it. I use my TiVo in my RV all summer watching from a OTA antenna and will need this.


I don't believe that the hardware in the S3 is that close to what is in the S2 or S1. However I've never opened a box and if I did I wouldn't be able to tell to be perfectly honest. Still the price of the S3 suggest to me that hardware has to be much different.

If you really want to enjoy this feature, I think you need to buy an S3. I doubt TiVo is going to make an "adapter" or a card to make this happen.


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## pcurthoys (Nov 4, 2003)

Quick question for you guys: I've got a Series 1, and I signed up for and got the DST patch. My guide data is now current through 4/2, and I've noticed that recordings starting 4/1 are an hour ahead of "real life" -- meaning, a 3pm hockey game is listed as starting at 4pm. Is that just part of the patch -- will the listings correct themselves come 4/1? Or is something wrong with the patch? I'm worried because the night I got the patch, my Tivo froze on "Loading Data" in the phone-call screen, and I had to power-cycle it and redo the phone call, so I'm not sure if this is how the patch is supposed to work. Thanks much!


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

pcurthoys said:


> Quick question for you guys: I've got a Series 1, and I signed up for and got the DST patch. My guide data is now current through 4/2, and I've noticed that recordings starting 4/1 are an hour ahead of "real life" -- meaning, a 3pm hockey game is listed as starting at 4pm. Is that just part of the patch -- will the listings correct themselves come 4/1?


Yes, the listings will correct themselves on 4/1.

Pony


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## pcurthoys (Nov 4, 2003)

Dandy, thanks much!


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## AFP1 (Feb 12, 2007)

I just feel that since Tivo has your Email Address, and also knows what you already own, they should just send out Notices instead of having people need to Sign Up for an Upgrade!
For the very little Actual Service we Pay for every Month, I feel they should be more Consumer oriented. You can never even get through on the Phone, so we have to settle our own problems here! I have yet to solve anything here!!


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## BTUx9 (Nov 13, 2003)

AFP1 said:


> I just feel that since Tivo has your Email Address, and also knows what you already own, they should just send out Notices instead of having people need to Sign Up for an Upgrade!
> For the very little Actual Service we Pay for every Month, I feel they should be more Consumer oriented. You can never even get through on the Phone, so we have to settle our own problems here! I have yet to solve anything here!!


TiVo made the correct decision in not sending this out to everyone, yet.

They already sent notices out telling people to change their manual recordings... the patch would break those changed recordings, so they haven't sent it out to everyone.

When they send out a message for april 1st reminding people that the recordings need to be changed BACK, then they'll be able to send out the patch to everyone (but won't have to until october, because times will be accurate until then).


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## AFP1 (Feb 12, 2007)

Carriere said:


> Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I had tried it and had lots of problems. It's the reason I delayed putting my posting up until last night instead of last week. I wanted to resolve the emuProxyZA issues before I signed up for the DST fix. I would not recommend emuProxyZA for Canadian Postal Codes. (Keep in mind that I'm a Linux rookie and maybe someone more expert may have success.) I'm looking forward to the DST update taking effect in the next day or so.
> 
> Regarding the DST fix, I don't keep my TiVo connected to a phone line because a daily call is unnecessary without Canadian Postal Codes and so no Canadian guide data. I only connect to the TiVo service to reset the clock whenever I see that the clock has drifted too much. If I'm reading the forum correctly, every spring I'll need to set the clock twice and every fall I'll need to set the clock twice (assuming the government sticks the new DST days). Is this correct? Not a big deal and much more convenient than changing all of my manual programming, especially when you consider that all of my programming is manual due to no Canadian guide data.
> 
> ...


 "What's in it for TiVo?"
I had to laugh when I read this!! What do they have to gain?? You may at some time need to Purchase a New Unit, Plus you lose any Deal you had for the Subscription prices!
I have had 3 Updates to Both my Units in the last 6 Months, but they are both Series 2, the Series that replaced 1, and they don't want to be bothered with Series 1 Units anymore. They probably figured they would all be broken by now, as their Machines don't have the Best Reliability Track Record!! After reading many Posts, I have concluded they have about a 2 Yr. Life Expectancy, which puts all you Series 1 owners out in the cold!!


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## AFP1 (Feb 12, 2007)

hornblowercat said:


> I don't believe that the hardware in the S3 is that close to what is in the S2 or S1. However I've never opened a box and if I did I wouldn't be able to tell to be perfectly honest. Still the price of the S3 suggest to me that hardware has to be much different.
> 
> If you really want to enjoy this feature, I think you need to buy an S3. I doubt TiVo is going to make an "adapter" or a card to make this happen.


 Well, I'm Sorry to say, the actual set up of an S3 Unit is *VERY MUCH the Same as all other Units! The Only differences are the Hard Drive and Tuner. 
I have openned Both types many times, and replaced parts as well. The ONLY Real difference is the Tuner, which in my opinion is nowhere near worth a difference of $700.00!! And especially when they get to keep 2 Regular Tuners in the Swap!! I can Buy an HD Tuner for under $100.00!! They probably Pay no more than $50.00 for the same thing!
Your getting Ripped Off, just as I did!
But Someday, they will have some Competition, and maybe then things will get better all around!


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

AFP1 said:


> Well, I'm Sorry to say, the actual set up of an S3 Unit is *VERY MUCH the Same as all other Units! The Only differences are the Hard Drive and Tuner.
> I have openned Both types many times, and replaced parts as well. The ONLY Real difference is the Tuner, which in my opinion is nowhere near worth a difference of $700.00!! And especially when they get to keep 2 Regular Tuners in the Swap!! I can Buy an HD Tuner for under $100.00!! They probably Pay no more than $50.00 for the same thing!
> Your getting Ripped Off, just as I did!
> But Someday, they will have some Competition, and maybe then things will get better all around!


I don't feel ripped off at all. I love the S3. And yes the Tuner is the difference. Is it worth the price they charge? Probably not if you take it as an individual item, but it is the entire package that makes the S3 great.

And as far as competition, why doesn't any of the current DVR's try and do it? The answer is simple. They can't.

I'm real sorry you feel ripped off. I would pay the same amount all over again for the S3 just because it leaves cable dvr's in the dust.


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## patters000 (Feb 1, 2003)

Has anyone had problems with channels missing after receiving the Priority DST update on their Series 1? After receiving the update here, a bunch of channels have gone missing. I had had a manual season pass on one of them, and when I tried editing it, I received an 'errDbMissing' message. 

Anyone else experiencing an alteration in their lineup after this update? Perhaps a system reset would fix the problem.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

AFP1 said:


> Well, I'm Sorry to say, the actual set up of an S3 Unit is *VERY MUCH the Same as all other Units!


Isn't that a good thing? Consistent setup and interface? If you mean the hardware layout/design/config, I think the S3 is significantly different. It has component and HDMI outputs (similar to HDDTiVo), CableCARD inputs, SATA vs IDE drives (and by extension eSATA port), and builtin ethernet ports.



AFP1 said:


> The Only differences are the Hard Drive and Tuner.


I think the people who do end up buying an S3 usually feel the CableCARD support and expandable storage are the key features they are after (plus the TiVo UI and reliability)

Whether someone feels this is worth it for the price is of course YMMV.


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## jackpollack (Apr 2, 2002)

I have a Tivo S1 with CacheCard (and network interface) & 120GB HD. Ten days ago I successfully applied the manual DST time patch and everything is working well.

I am considering unpatching and using the "real" Tivo fix so that I don't have to deal with manual changes 4X a year (don't want to add chron), but am concerned with possible side effects.

I have read through this thread and don't see much discussion of good or bad results with the Tivo patch and modified Tivos other than some missing channels from the lineup.

So what I want to confirm is:
1. Can anyone confirm that the Tivo patch will not break anything with CacheCard.
2. I think I saw some possible problems with 130GB+ HDs, but 120GB isn't a problem.
3. Any more info on the missing lineup channels?
4. Any other reported side effects?
5. Am I better off just sticking with the manual patch?

Thanks


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## patters000 (Feb 1, 2003)

For the missing channels problem, performing a simple system reboot fixed the problem. After rebooting it seemed to crunch for a while, maybe on some unimported program data, but the channels were there and eventually recordable again.


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## Mars (Sep 13, 2001)

jackpollack said:


> 1. Can anyone confirm that the Tivo patch will not break anything with CacheCard.
> 
> Thanks


My S1 with cache card took the TiVo dst update just fine. I am running two 120G drives in it, so I don't know what effect if any, will be on your 130G drive. But here's encouragement from Pony.



TiVoPony said:


> It's not a full software update. No worries.
> 
> Pony


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## bmeyer1968 (Dec 7, 2005)

I've got 3 S1, unsubbed HDR212s. 1 has a 300GB drive, 1 has an 80GB and 1 has a 110GB. When the early DST change came on, I tried a few of the workarounds with GS and changing my Timezone but removing DST and all that, but then gave up and ran it again setting the system to my timezone(CST) _with _ DST enabled, then re-entered all my manual recordings -1 hour. I don't have any problem with all that really, but want to make sure that I'm not going to goof anything up by having done all that. Can someone who KNOWS for sure confirm or deny these statements?

1) it sounds like everyone agrees that the Tivo patch will not mess up the LBA48 kernel and my 300GB drive will go on fine afterwards.
2) After the patch, I will have to change all the manual programs again to 'real' time(no problem, I expected to do this on April 1 anyway).
3) In addition to the inital call to load the patch, I will have to call on April 1 and then 2 more times in the fall for the old 'fall back' date and the new one for 4 calls total each year.
4) Future calls to Tivo to correct clock drift should not entail re-downloading the patch.
5) programs I recorded at -1 hour durring the last few weeks will still show as -1 hour after the patch is applied (SNL starting at 9:30 CST last weekend etc...)

Thanks,
Bill


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

AFP1 said:


> For the very little Actual Service we Pay for every Month, I feel they should be more Consumer oriented.


That's a matter of opinion, and a rather uninformed one, I might add. I pay $160 a month to my CATV company, yet their program guides are habitually wrong. TiVo's rarely are.



AFP1 said:


> You can never even get through on the Phone


I'll allow TiVo's tech support leaves a great deal to be desired, but while I have called their tech support many, many times, I have only had problems getting through once. No offense, but you're sounding rather like my daughter who screams (at the top of her lungs), "You never let me go out!", because she was only allowed to go out 5 days out of 7. Just so you don't get her reputation, please let us know how many times, exactly, you called, when and how long you were on hold, and exactly how many times you were completely unable to reach their support line before it closed.

Armed with that information, I feel fairly confident the TiVo reps in this forum will be able to take your complaints back to their supervisors and have the company investigate the issue. Without it, they have nothing on which to act and you have no cause to be complaining.



AFP1 said:


> so we have to settle our own problems here! I have yet to solve anything here!!


To which I can only request again you tell us exactly what problems you attempted to fix in this forum and how it failed to supply the required information.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

AFP1 said:


> Well, I'm Sorry to say, the actual set up of an S3 Unit is *VERY MUCH the Same as all other Units! The Only differences are the Hard Drive and Tuner.


Excuse me? Exactly where is the optical audio output on the TCD649080? The HDMI output? The CableCard slots? THX certification? Cable Labs certification?



AFP1 said:


> The ONLY Real difference is the Tuner, which in my opinion is nowhere near worth a difference of $700.00!! And especially when they get to keep 2 Regular Tuners in the Swap!! I can Buy an HD Tuner for under $100.00!! They probably Pay no more than $50.00 for the same thing!


What a manufacturer pays for an OEM or embedded device and what they must charge to make a profit on that device are two very different things. In order to make a profit, the manufacturer has to recover development and retooling costs, the cost of additional inventory, and account for sales volume. The sales of the Series III are going to be lower in volume due in part to its higher price, increased competition, and saturation of the Series I and Series II in the marketplace. Add to that the licensing issues and the additional features of the Series III, and the box is going to be much more expensive.



AFP1 said:


> But Someday, they will have some Competition, and maybe then things will get better all around!


They already have competition - lots of it. Some day has been here for years. So how come you're still complaining?


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## joblo (Jun 5, 2002)

http://tivo.com/dst said:


> If you should Repeat Guided Setup for any reason between the time your Series1 DVR receives the update and April 1, your TiVo DVR may display the wrong time until its next connection to the TiVo service.


FYI, this does NOT work as advertised.

I repeated GS on a machine that had received the update and was displaying the correct time. Repeating GS reverted the unit to incorrect time as indicated, but neither daily calls nor rebooting restored the correct time after repeating GS.


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## cthomp (Dec 24, 2001)

joblo said:


> FYI, this does NOT work as advertised.
> 
> I repeated GS on a machine that had received the update and was displaying the correct time. Repeating GS reverted the unit to incorrect time as indicated, but neither daily calls nor rebooting restored the correct time after repeating GS.


Same problem.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Uh oh... looks like another fine piece of workmanship from TiVo's programmers.   

They need to hire somebody like jberman or dswallow.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

joblo said:


> FYI, this does NOT work as advertised.
> 
> I repeated GS on a machine that had received the update and was displaying the correct time. Repeating GS reverted the unit to incorrect time as indicated, but neither daily calls nor rebooting restored the correct time after repeating GS.


Could you guys PM me with your TSN's? Our engineers would like to take a closer look at this.

Thanks,
Pony


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> That's a matter of opinion, and a rather uninformed one, I might add. I pay $160 a month to my CATV company, yet their program guides are habitually wrong. TiVo's rarely are.


I have noticed no significant difference between the accuracy of program guide data between the guide provided by my cable company for its box, and the guide provided on my TiVos. The only exceptions to that is when a show changes from 1:01 to 1:03 on the day before; the TiVo tends to get word of that in time, while the cable box doesn't. Other than that, I have seen not one significant difference in accuracy.



lrhorer said:


> I'll allow TiVo's tech support leaves a great deal to be desired


They're down-right rude and unhelpful, which is a painful contrast to their own customer service folks, who are very polite and understanding, and to the cable company's tech support and customer support, who are also rather polite and understanding.



lrhorer said:


> Armed with that information, I feel fairly confident the TiVo reps in this forum will be able to take your complaints back to their supervisors and have the company investigate the issue.


I think there has been a lot of comments over the last year about the poor attitude of tech support folks as compared to the customer service/billing folks at TiVo. I haven't noticed much of a change. >shrug<


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## Haxx (Feb 25, 2003)

It appears I have been sent another update from TiVo that has set both of my "DST patched" S1 TiVos to be restarted. And have reverted them to show the time as if DST had not yet happened.

My only guess is that this is in preparation for tomorrow's (4/1) phantom change to DST. After thinking about this it's possible it was not sent an update, but just looked like an update, based on the "loading data" message re. the phone connection.

Assuming this is the case, TiVo should at least display a message on my TiVo that this could be the case. I awoke Saturday morning to one of my S1's in this mode (behind an hour) and thought it had lost the patch. I forgot that the old DST change was about 18 hours away.


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## AFP1 (Feb 12, 2007)

TiVoPony said:


> I have news to share.
> 
> Recently TiVo sent notices out to our Series1 owners that for the next three weeks their clock would be off by one hour, and their manual recordings would have to be adjusted.
> 
> ...


 **FINALLY!!
I guess if many people make complaints, even Tivo will come up with an answer!!
But if you noticed, they have known about this Time Change for a long time. Why not do something *BEFORE the problem becomes one?? They call it "Preventive Maintinence", which does not really even apply here, because you knew about the problem beforehand!
Instead of "Preventive", they should have used "Common Sense" and avoided the problem completely! Not wait till what they know will happen actually happens, then create a Fix later when the problem is giving people a hard time!! But if you call, they will probably tell you what they tell me each time I call and ask about something, "Buy a New Machine"! 
Tivo just has a BS IT/Maintinence Dept. period! If the Director Worked for me, he would have been Fired well before Daylight Savings Time if not corrected beforehand!!


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## biker (Jan 8, 2001)

Haxx said:


> It appears I have been sent another update from TiVo that has set both of my "DST patched" S1 TiVos to be restarted. And have reverted them to show the time as if DST had not yet happened.
> 
> My only guess is that this is in preparation for tomorrow's (4/1) phantom change to DST. After thinking about this it's possible it was not sent an update, but just looked like an update, based on the "loading data" message re. the phone connection.
> 
> Assuming this is the case, TiVo should at least display a message on my TiVo that this could be the case. I awoke Saturday morning to one of my S1's in this mode (behind an hour) and thought it had lost the patch. I forgot that the old DST change was about 18 hours away.


I got it last night on my machine.


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## geeper6 (Apr 2, 2007)

So I have the series 1, sony model. and I got the priority patch for DST a few weeks ago and everything was great, no glitches or bugs, but since the time was originally supposed to change last night, well it changed. Now I have not been able to dial out and connect all day and when it did connect, nothing changed in terms of time. Is there another patch to fix the time again? 

Thanks,
KO


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

I think I got lucky. My scheduled daily call was already set to 11:57 PM Saturday night, so as far as I know my Tivo worked perfectly. (Hopefully, this time was actually planned by Tivo).

I'm surprised Tivo didn't have Haxx's unit reboot scheduled for 2 AM. Unless something else (like a power loss) ocurred between the time of Saturday's daily call and 2 AM. Then Tivo would reboot with the wrong times, and you'd miss all of your manual recordings for Saturday. I'll have to check to see if I can determine exactly when my Tivo rebooted.

I'm further surprised Tivo didn't force the S1s to perform their daily call between 11 PM and 2 AM. This would also minimize the chance of missing the daily call, since most people are not talking on the phone at this time. It also minimizes the amount of time the unit could have the wrong time. 

Also, if Saturday's daily call is missed, the unit will miss Sunday's manual recordings and all further manual recordings until it can complete the call. Unless Tivo just "hit" all of the units on Saturday only, so if you missed that daily call you're SOL.

That's the problem with this workaround solution -- there are a lot of things that can go wrong. Daily calls were designed so that they could be missed for a few days. That's why you have 10 days of guide data. But the workaorund assumes every single one of your calls is successful, which goes against the original design intent.

Does anyone out there having problems also have Vonage or some other VoIP service? This could be another reason why the daily call was missed.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

My brother's S1 is off by 1 hour, later. I called his GF, she belives GS was not done to change DST, to No. They connect with broadband every so often, 2yr kid and location is the reason. She thinks the time was correct for 3 days before April 1 

If you got the update and restarted before the 15min - 30min suggested by TiVojerry, would that cause this Issue. 

I told her to redo GS and say they have NO DST.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

I think she should repeat GS to say they HAVE DST. This should kick Tivo into the right time, as we are already past the old DST date. I think your suggestion will make the Tivo an hour late.

If you signed up for the update, you really needed a daily connection around the old and new DST dates for the thing to work properly. An occasional daily call just won't work.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

AFP1 said:


> If the Director Worked for me, he would have been Fired well before Daylight Savings Time if not corrected beforehand!!


based on your meaningless ramblings here anyone working for you would have quit well before you had a chance to fire them


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

I applied for and got the Series 1 DST update for my Philips HDR-612 after TiVo Pony announced it (March 17th). I now just noticed that my Series 1 is now one hour ahead of where it should be. If I press LIVE TV it shows the time 1 hour faster at the top right and the times on the shows that I am going to record appear to be 1 hour ahead. For example NCIS is on CBS tonight at 8:00PM ET and my TIVO shows it as being on at 9:00PM .

*UPDATE: Weird... I forced another update and it must have downloaded the DST fix again since it said Loading... with no other info. I waited about 30 min and then rebooted. It appears to be ok now. I don't have this Tivo connected to the net all the time (it has a TivoNET card) so it probably would have fixed itself.*


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bicker said:


> I have noticed no significant difference between the accuracy of program guide data between the guide provided by my cable company for its box, and the guide provided on my TiVos. The only exceptions to that is when a show changes from 1:01 to 1:03 on the day before; the TiVo tends to get word of that in time, while the cable box doesn't. Other than that, I have seen not one significant difference in accuracy.


As always, individual mileage will vary. The TWC cable guide often shows the incorrect duration for programs whose duration changes from time to time (like NBC does regularly). This frequently resulted in the first or last minute or two being chopped off the program. When the cable company launched a new HD Channel (Universal HD), it was four months before it even showed up in the TWC TV guide, and then it was wrong. I had gotten rid of the TWC DVR by the time they fixed this, assuming they ever did. The TiVo had the wrong channel name, but the programming was correct within a few weeks of the launch of the channel.



bicker said:


> They're down-right rude and unhelpful


That's very different from being unreachable. Again, I'll allow they need better, more knowledgable technicians. I also suspect the techs are rated based upon a quota of calls serviced. They clearly wnat to get you off the line ASAP. If I surmise correctly, then TiVo needs to eliminate call quotas.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Well, wouldn't the CSRs be subject to call quotas as well? Why aren't they surly and unhelpful as well?


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bicker said:


> Well, wouldn't the CSRs be subject to call quotas as well? Why aren't they surly and unhelpful as well?


Well, one never knows, but I doubt it. I suspect they may be more on something like a commission or success based bonus basis. Most companies view technical support as a cost of doing business which needs to be trimmed as much as possible. It's not considered to be revenue generating. The more customers serviced in a smaller amount of time, the better. Customer service, however, is seen as generating revenue. The more time a CSR / sales rep spends with a customer, the better the company likes it. Frequently, tech support personnel are evaluated based upon the number of calls taken. CSRs by contrast are often evaluated based on how successful each call is.


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## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

Sorry, I have not read the complete thread, and it probablyt has already been addressed. 

After the patch fixed the time on my Series 1 before April 1st, now that the original April change date has passed, my clock on my S1 is off by one hour. Anyone else having this problem?

OK. I read back and it appears that I need to force another update. Will try it when I get home next Wednesday and see if that fixes it.

Regards...


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

It worked for me.


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## MC Binc (Apr 16, 2007)

I have another S1 with DST issues after April 1st. I signed up for the special upgrade within a few days of its announcement. Within two days, the system had restarted and times (EDT) appeared correct. On 4/1, time jumped forward again and now manual recordings occur an hour early. So, what's the official path to get this condition corrected?


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

MC Binc, is your unit connecting on a regular basis? If not, please force a connection and let us know the result. Otherwise, please send me a PM with your TSN and I'll look into it.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

I guess there ARE things worse than losing manual recordings for a few weeks:

Boy Jailed over Daylight Saving Time (gizmodo)


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## ryanjennings (Jun 7, 2002)

Has anyone noticed trouble with the times not matching on some channels? Most of my season passes work fine. Those on Discovery channel seem to be off by 1 hour. I never applied for the patch.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

ryanjennings said:


> Has anyone noticed trouble with the times not matching on some channels? Most of my season passes work fine. Those on Discovery channel seem to be off by 1 hour. I never applied for the patch.


Time settings would be global. The issue you are reporting sounds more like a lineup issue for that one channel. I suggest you file a report after following the instructions at tivo.com/lineup. The final paragraph in that article links to a form where you can file the report without having to call in for assistance.


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> I suggest you file a report after following the instructions at tivo.com/lineup. The final paragraph in that article links to a form where you can file the report without having to call in for assistance.


Well this is a nice fresh air breather: until now I thought all customer service problems had to be resolved by phone.


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## ryanjennings (Jun 7, 2002)

I will give it a try. Seems unlikely to me to have an error in a channel as popular as the Discovery channel for this long and strange that the problem happened so close to the time change.


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## rkshack (May 6, 2002)

Will I lose my hack directory if the update is applied. Will I need to reinstall my hacks.

rkshack


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

rkshack said:


> Will I lose my hack directory if the update is applied. Will I need to reinstall my hacks.


Nope, hacks will be fine.


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## varybarry (May 30, 2007)

That's great I thought for sure all of my hack directory would be lost.


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## justapixel (Sep 27, 2001)

Are we still needing this as a sticky?


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

I'd say yes.

So that all will know and benefit, and none shall be left in the shadows, mourning over their lack of understanding on such things.

Or maybe just so the info isn't lost. *grin*


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Isn't this going to come up twice (four times?) a year, now?


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

bicker said:


> Isn't this going to come up twice (four times?) a year, now?


Yeah, I guess so... but I think, with the way TiVo wrote their script, future DST adjustments should be transparent to the user... so I doubt this thread will get much more activity. Someone might glance ahead in their program guide to a time after an upcoming time change, and entries in the guide may appear to be an hour off, but scheduled recordings will still occur at the proper time. No need to recreate manual recordings anymore 

By the way, thanks to whoever wrote all this up in TiVo's Wikipedia entry. Well done!


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

Oh, I see that jberman has been immortalized by Wikipedia in that article.


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## varybarry (May 30, 2007)

That's quite an accomplishment now a days... what next David Letterman?


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## musika (Jun 29, 2007)

COOL.. nice to here


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## cthomp (Dec 24, 2001)

Just noticed this. Starting the 28th listings are off by 1 hour.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Wasn't that expected?


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## cheerdude (Feb 27, 2001)

cthomp said:


> Just noticed this. Starting the 28th listings are off by 1 hour.


Are they off because you think we should be falling back or does the TiVo think we are?
The Energy Policy Act of 2005 changed both when DST starts *and* ends. The Fall time change was moved from the last Sunday in October to the first Sunday in November.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

You should read this entire 199 post thread.

Basically, leave your Tivo continuously conencted to a phone line the next month. The displayed times will be wrong, but Tivo will eventually fix itself (twice) and by Nov 5th, everything will be normal until next March.

The recordings will record OK, it's just the displayed times that are wrong. When recording from the guide, ignore the displayed times and select the program you want by its name. 

For manual recordings, it's opposite -- ignore the name of the program and just enter the same times that we will go by. If you know the program is on at 6 AM, set the manual recording for 6AM. The manual recordings will look like their wrong, and may even wrongly conflict with some other recording you might have, but your Tivo will (hopefully) fix itself at the last minute, the conflicts will disappear, and everything will (hopefully) be fine. Don't change any season passes or existing manual recordings.

It's not a great fix for the new DST dates, but it's better than nothing.


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## MC Binc (Apr 16, 2007)

bicker said:


> Wasn't that expected?


There may be more going on. I'm one of a number of people who got the DST upgrade but had it go wonky. Clock has been reading one hour ahead all Summer but scheduled recordings happen correctly. Manual recordings had to be adjusted at the beginning and end of the DST deltas. System rebooted last night and now the clock reads correctly and scheduled recordings are happening as expected (will have to bump the manuals again). Version number didn't change but that may not be a true indicator.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

BobCamp1 has this right. As long as you leave your S1 connected, it should download the fix the day before the change and then resolve itself with a reboot that night. If someone reports not receiving the update due to an unsuccessful phone connection (line busy, call interrupted, phone line disconnected), they'll want to force a connection manually.

*The only problem here is that the phone connection will not finish * (status = succeeded). It will remain "unfinished" as it's waiting for the 2am reboot to run the update. Since some of these reports might be from units that only have a phone line connected once a week, the indexing portion of the call could take some time before the call has finished processing (even though it says it hasn't). So, the best advise is to wait awhile, *an hour might be a safe bet but no guarantee*, before pulling power.

I'm not sure why MC Binc's issue has held on all summer, nor did I expect it to resolve itself before tomorrow. "Time" (it's all relevant, right?  ) will tell if this resolves his situation.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

As a follow up, my Tivo did NOT update on Sunday. It still had the old time, and I missed a manual recording. It may have been a unsuccessful connection, though it attempted at 11:37 PM when no one was awake.

It looked like it was going to update last night, but I forgot to check it this morning. The call status did not say "completed" last night, but said "loading data". Also, the next scheduled call time was BEHIND the last successful call time by two minutes. So I'm going to assume it rebooted at 2 AM.

It's too bad there was no official software fix for this. I'm going to have to babysit my Tivo during the old and new time changes from now on. I'll force a connection Saturday AM, then check before I go to bed that it was successful (i.e. "loading data").


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

BobCamp1, if you send me a PM with your 15-digit TSN, I'll see if we can determine what happened from your logs.


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## MC Binc (Apr 16, 2007)

MC Binc said:


> There may be more going on.


Spoke too soon. While I did get a reboot, the system is otherwise unchanged. Looking ahead, on return to EST, my TiVo is going to be an hour ahead again. Whatever download was delivered didn't fix my problem. [email protected]#$#


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

MC Binc said:


> Spoke too soon. While I did get a reboot, the system is otherwise unchanged. Looking ahead, on return to EST, my TiVo is going to be an hour ahead again. Whatever download was delivered didn't fix my problem. [email protected]#$#


That's normal. Tivo will adjust itself again this coming Sunday at 2AM, and all the times will be suddenly correct again. But until then, all the times for shows starting 2 AM this coming Sunday will be an hour off. The important thing to ask is what time your Tivo think it is right now. If it's correct, and the guide data for JUST THIS WEEK shows the correct times, then you have the workaround in place. Don't look ahead - if things are working as expected, the times for next week will be off by an hour.

The problem isn't getting "fixed" -- Tivo is unfortunately implementing a workaround. The guide data will be off four times a year, and each time Tivo should automatically adjust at 2 AM and everything will be OK. (This workaround has officially confused my wife as well).


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

BobCamp1 is correct. Do not worry about what is coming up after the 4th. You will download another update that will reboot the box to correct the time that day.

Keep in mind that the Series1 software branch stopped at 3.0 (back in 2001 IIRC?) and we are currently up to 9.2 on our S3 & TiVo HD platforms. We really can't step backword to open that old SW back up and begin testing on that platform. Plus, keep in mind that these units have not received a true software upgrade in a long time. Stirring up that old software partition would likely cause a lot of drives to have issues.


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

TiVoJerry said:


> Keep in mind that the Series1 software branch stopped at 3.0 (back in 2001 IIRC?)


It was in 2002, but who's counting...


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

sbourgeo said:


> It was in 2002, but who's counting...


Ah, they all blend together in a blur.


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## MC Binc (Apr 16, 2007)

BobCamp1 said:


> That's normal.


I hope it continues to be normal. You'll notice from past postings that my TiVo spent the Summer off by an hour. It's soon to be retired but still...


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## MC Binc (Apr 16, 2007)

For the first time since before the Spring DST change, it's looking good. Clock is correct today and the time-based manual recordings are intact with correct times and titles. Just in time for hardware retirement but you take your victories when you can, no?


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## eokerson (Mar 20, 2005)

My lifetime series 1 was working great, until I noticed this morning that it had not received an update since Nov 11. Could this be related to the DST change? It makes test calls fine, it just won't get service updates. A friend recommended re-running guided setup, now it is stuck there and won't get past calling Tivo.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

One of my two Series 1 Tivos has been having a lot of trouble phoning home the last couple weeks. Various failures and call interruptions. I was wondering if the modem was having problems, but who knows...


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## Rottluver (Dec 6, 2004)

I just called in last night with my Series 1 (SAT T-60).....it had been 254 days since my last call......no phone line near the unit and I just don't care, it is just the kid's tv.

Anyway, I tried several times to get it call in but it kept failing.....so I had it call in and grab all the phone numbers for the local area and used a new one......it worked. Called in, got new stuff/software/etc.

Just my $.02


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

My Series1 has been off by one hour since the time change. Any way to fix? (It calls in fine, but the time remains wrong).


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## timckelley (Oct 15, 2002)

I'd report on the status of my S1, but I just transferred the LT sub off of it to another unit a few weeks ago. Just in time, apparently.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Luke, at this point if your DVR is still off by an hour, you should repeat guided setup.


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## Luke M (Nov 5, 2002)

TiVoJerry said:


> Luke, at this point if your DVR is still off by an hour, you should repeat guided setup.


That worked, thanks.


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## jberman (Oct 2, 2002)

Coming up on another time change... hopefully everything'll go smoothly!


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

I'm told all should be fine.


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## biker (Jan 8, 2001)

:up:


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## ADent (Jan 7, 2000)

I think this is the summary - If you have a SA S1 connected to a phone line it will make its regularly scheduled calls. The last call before DST switch will cause the machine download a hack, um I mean patch, and to reboot at 2am and fix the time. This will occur again during the weekend when the DST was scheduled for years.

The upcoming guide will be off by an hour in both cases, but after this scheduled reboot everything will fall back in place.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

ADent said:


> I think this is the summary - If you have a SA S1 connected to a phone line it will make its regularly scheduled calls. *The last call before DST switch will cause the machine download a hack, um I mean patch, and to reboot at 2am and fix the time. *This will occur again during the weekend when the DST was scheduled for years...


Thanks.

I somehow gummed up the works last time, and my Series 1s were off by an hour all day Sunday, until 2AM (I assume) Monday morning.

I'll have them dial in around 10PM Saturday night, and see what happens.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Ok, my Series 1 still thinks it's on Standard Time and I have confirmed that it is connecting and downloading and processing new guide data.

I restarted it this morning to see if that was the issue and it's still an hour behind.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Looks like our query managed to miss a few units, yours included. We've just mapped you to receive the update. Make a connection now to receive it.

Keep in mind that the call status will NOT finish as "succeeded", but rather appears to stall during processing. Once the phone line has disconnected (yellow LED goes off), allow 30 to 60 minutes (padded for safety, depends on how much PGD you're downloading and other people will want to follow these intructions at a later date) before pulling power to restart. Or you can just let the unit restart on its own at 2am.

Sorry 'bout that.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

That fixed it.
Thanks, Jerry!


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## robmaurizi (Oct 26, 2008)

Has the new algorithm been incorporated into the SW? I just recently hooked up my S1 after a couple of years of putting up with cable company DVR crap (aka TiFaux).

Is there a way to just upgrade the OS to a more recent version that includes a patch?

It's a hacked S1 with a turbo net NIC that "dials out" over the network.

Thanks!
-Rob


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

robmaurizi said:


> Has the new algorithm been incorporated into the SW? I just recently hooked up my S1 after a couple of years of putting up with cable company DVR crap (aka TiFaux).
> 
> Is there a way to just upgrade the OS to a more recent version that includes a patch?
> 
> ...


It is not practical for us to update 3.0 SW. Rather we send out a runme that corrects the time temporarily to cover the gap between the old and new dates. We have to do this twice manually each time there is a change. If your DVR is connecting to the service regularly, you will receive the update and have no problems.


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## tedede (Nov 13, 2003)

TiVoJerry said:


> It is not practical for us to update 3.0 SW. Rather we send out a runme that corrects the time temporarily to cover the gap between the old and new dates. We have to do this twice manually each time there is a change. If your DVR is connecting to the service regularly, you will receive the update and have no problems.


Mine is connecting over a TurboNet Card. Do I need to do a dialup by phone? The time on the system is an hour ahead, and my todo list shows an 8PM show (Chuck) being recorded at 9PM.

The DST patch worked last year, any reason why it may be bad now?

I did a reboot just to be sure, no change, and the last contact with TiVo was 4AM.

Thanks,
ted


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

If you've just set up after the patch was run, I could this being an issue. If you're stating you've been connected regularly for the past month and are having this problem, I'd like a PM with your TSN so I can look into it.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I think mine is "off" too, but I am not sure. Not that it really matters, though, because it still seems to record everything correctly. The clock is off, but so is the guide.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Season Passes will record correctly, but manual recordings won't. That's the issue.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

mattack said:


> Season Passes will record correctly, but manual recordings won't. That's the issue.


not for me.. But it looks like my clock is right today. Not sure what was going on last night. But all seems well now.


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

mattack said:


> Season Passes will record correctly, but manual recordings won't. That's the issue.


Uh-oh. Looks like all my Daily Show/Colbert recordings won't be correct!


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## badcrc (Aug 21, 2000)

One of my tivos shows the right time, the other two show an hour off since a couple days ago. I did a couple daily calls and it's the same.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

I've got engineering looking into this. 

Keep in mind that while the clock and guide will dispaly an hour off, all recordings except for manual will happen on time since they're based on GMT settings for your box. Manual recordings go off the clock, so I already know that those using an unsubbed S1 will be more affected than others.


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## tedede (Nov 13, 2003)

TiVoJerry said:


> If you've just set up after the patch was run, I could this being an issue. If you're stating you've been connected regularly for the past month and are having this problem, I'd like a PM with your TSN so I can look into it.


I have been online for the past month. It's alright this morning, so I'm not sure what was up, but it's fine now. And as you mentioned, everything was recorded on time.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

For those of you with a Series1 that has the clock off by one hour at this time, please force a connection to see if that resolves the issue. Looks like a few units managed to slip past our mapping query.


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## badcrc (Aug 21, 2000)

Mine are all showing the correct time now. Whatever it was is fixed. Hopefully they adjust for daylight savings correctly next week


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

The adjustment will go fine. You just happened to be one of the units that wasn't mapped to receive it in the first place. Sorry for the confusion.


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

My series 1 is currently an hour fast and just called in two hours ago.....


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

ronsch said:


> My series 1 is currently an hour fast and just called in two hours ago.....


Please PM me with your TSN.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

Don't any downloaded corrections wait until 2am to take effect?


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

I honestly don't know if 2am applies in this situation. I am under the impression that the fix runs as soon as the call is done, but I'm not 100&#37; sure.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

gastrof said:


> Don't any downloaded corrections wait until 2am to take effect?


Now I remember what you were referring to. Yes, the DVR will stay in a "loading" state until 2am or until a reboot (IIRC). I only have to think about this twice a year and the memory is a fadin'.....


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Jerry,

I want to apologize. My Series 1 does have the correct time on the System Information page. It's Tivowebplus that is not handling the time correctly.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Glad to hear the DVR is on time.


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## bmeyer1968 (Dec 7, 2005)

I've got 3 people I know (Mom, Dad and friend) who's Tivos did not catch the update this last time around. I personally put their SN's up on the Tivo site last fall and if I remember correctly everything went ok, and my series 1 is working ok (I just have to make the call each DST date). I see you mentioning that some serials may have gotten past the query, should I have them re-submit on the Tivo site next go around? Obviously this is not a big problem as everything is caught up on the old DST timeframe, but I was just looking ahead to the spring and the calls I will be getting about 'all my times are off again!' from Mom and Dad.

Thanks for any info you can give.
Bill


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

Bill, we don't have a signup page for receiving the DST fix. I'm thinking you have it confused with our software priority signup page, which hasn't been needed for the S1 platform since 2001.

If you can send me all 3 TSNs, I'll check to see that they're mapped. If they are, it's likely you'd have to Repeat Guided Setup to reset the DST flag to YES on each box.


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## shototsu (Mar 20, 2007)

My series one monthly sub hasn't completed a daily call since the time change. It was working fine up until then. Was out of town and didn't notice lack of program data until today. Tried:

1. reboot
2. unplug both phone line and electrical cord
3. re-run set-up
4. Run tivo equivalent of check disk
5. tried set-up again

Now calls are failing on the set up and I'm stuck in set up. Is this related to the time change?


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## David_NC (May 1, 2008)

> Now calls are failing on the set up and I'm stuck in set up. Is this related to the time change?


That sounds more like a modem problem. Are you able to make a successful test call? Any changes in the telephone service recently?


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## shototsu (Mar 20, 2007)

The first guided setup call works fine. After about 10 minutes of downloading during the second guided setup call I always get Call failed. Call Interrupted. 

We don't have call waiting on the landline, so I know that's not it. Plus, I doubt we would have had a call every night at 3-4 am for the past 10 days.

I'm unplugging all phones and trying again this morning.

Alicia


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## shototsu (Mar 20, 2007)

I left it unplugged overnight, tried different numbers, it's still failing while downloading under the second guided set-up call.

Alicia


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

I know it's a bit late for you, but Repeating Guided Setup while you're having a phone issue is never a wise decision.

I suggest you follow the troubleshooting links in our Phone Call Troubleshooting article.

Since it's connecting, you don't have to worry about the dialing format:
Has your phone service changed to a digital provider?
Are you using VOIP?
Do you have call waiting? If so, disable it by entering the prefix (usually *70,)
Bypass any splitters, try new phone cord, connect to a different phone jack
If using DSL, make sure you have a filter on the DVR's phone line. If you have more than 4 filters in the home, there is a cumulative dampening effect...disconnect other lines temporarily to test.


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## shototsu (Mar 20, 2007)

Thanks. No call waiting, no DSL, no change in service. Tivo just decided to stop downloading for 10 days out of the clear blue.

I wish I could describe how much I regret going into guided setup.

TiVo support has referred me to Phillips saying they've troubleshooted as much as they can. I'm probably going to pull the drive and start fresh. I'd love to upgrade, but I was going to hold out for a couple more years until I can afford HD.

If starting from fresh doesn't work I might have to give up the TiVo for a couple of years until I can afford to upgrade.  I take it there's no other way to wipe the OS than pulling the drive?


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

I don't see the point in pulling the drive as it's not the cause of your phone connection failure. A new drive will still need to finish GS to be usable.

The current TiVo call center agents are not trained on troubleshooting the S1 models, hence the referral to Philips. The troubleshooting steps are the same but the menus are different. Plus, the S1 modems are more fragile than current models.

Phone troubleshooting can be time consuming. Lots of patience is needed. Try turning off both detections and try to listen to the DVR pick up the line and dial out. If the volume drops considerably, or there is a lot of static when the DVR picks up, the modem is the issue.

If volume is fine and you hear the modem dial, and possibly even handshake (this doesn't always happen without another modem initiating the handshake), the problem is environmental. By this I mean anything that is connected to the phone line can be a problem, even outside of the home. You may wish to try taking the DVR to another location.

If you'll send me a PM with your TSN, I'll take a few moments to review your call history to see what I can spot.


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## tevoisseur (Jul 12, 2008)

You might also try a turbonet card. It would be cheaper than getting a tivo hd and would allow you to keep using your tivo. You can usually get one for around $50 on ebay.

But I would wait and see what Jerry finds out. However, this is just an alternative to not using your tivo for a few years.



shototsu said:


> Thanks. No call waiting, no DSL, no change in service. Tivo just decided to stop downloading for 10 days out of the clear blue.
> 
> I wish I could describe how much I regret going into guided setup.
> 
> ...


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## shototsu (Mar 20, 2007)

I really appreciate everyone's help!

I'm thinking it's not the modem but maybe an OS issue? The reason why I'm thinking this is because the first call goes through fine. TiVo dials and downloads the list of numbers. Test calls complete after tweaking phone dialing options. It's not until program guide data comes into play that things go haywire.

My thought was to pull the drive and reinstall from scratch, not replace the drive. Useless?

I've tried unplugging the one landline phone I have and that didn't make a difference. I'll try another jack and see if that helps.

I'm also carrying on this thread over in TiVo Help under "Series 1 not downloading data" in the meantime. Sorry for hijacking the daylight savings thread!


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## shototsu (Mar 20, 2007)

Bought new phone cable and tried a different jack. Still no go.

Hubby pointed out that we can get a Series 2 refurb online for $80. Will probably go that route and xfer my existing monthly sub. I've been troubleshooting from 8pm - 2am last night and again from 10am - 2 pm today. I've got nothing left to try.

Thanks for the help, everyone!


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## Mars (Sep 13, 2001)

Shototsu,

I have trouble with one of my Series 1 TiVo's downloading at about the same point. Are you on a satellite dish line up (which gives me problems) or cable line up which works fine for me same TiVo.


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## S Meade (Aug 19, 2006)

I am having the same problem. Since 12/2, out of the blue my Series 1 stand alone will call start downloading and then Failed - Call interupted after 10 minutes. I actually have an external modem because my internal modem was fried by a summer electrical storm years ago. Test calls work just fine. I have changed the call in number 4 times (Minneapolis 612 area code). Every time - dial tone, dailing heard, connection heard, verifies account, set clock, downloading then after 10 minutes Failed Call interupted. There are enough people this is happening to that it is not my machine. It is how the series 1 is accepting the download info. I have another Tivo (different Series) in the household that has not had a problem with the same dial in number.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

I had trouble downloading recently and followed the phone troubleshooting tips -- there's one that says if you have low volume on the line, turn one of the settings (the one to detect whether or not the phone is in use?) to OFF. 

I did that, then forced the daily call, and things worked again.

Jan


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## trobie (Dec 20, 2008)

My Sony SVR2000 using Bellsouth direct phone line will dial, but never connects. I get the "Service Not Available" message. I'm now stuck in Guided Set-up. Trying the prefix workaround but that does not seem to be working either. HELP!


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

trobie There are four or five threads that focus on the S1 not being able to download data right now. You are not alone.


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## aavillusfo (Dec 22, 2008)

Anyone here noticed the problem with the times not matching on some channels? Most of the channels work fine but the Discovery channel seem to be off by 2 hours ..weird


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## cpicard71 (Dec 22, 2008)

Funny I am experiencing the same issue. I tried to troubleshoot the modem, and decided to try a guided setup, not knowing you can't back out of it. I'm stuck at the first setup call. I run on a cable modem phone, through cable not over internet.. I had them come out and check everything, my cable modem got fried a bit too, so I am ordering a modem kit. Now I wonder since other people recently are having this issue, is Tivo trying to force us to lose our subscriptions(lifetime)? Philips is no longer servicing our units, and Tivo doesn't tell you that. You can't upgrade w/o losing your subscription. I'll be doing the same thing if this kit doesn't work. Putting the Tivo aside until they get smart enough to let us buy a new unit and transfer service. I will be annoyed if it is them.. I wonder if they sent us some bogus software glitch. I can't wait to see what gets posted- I am in FL, and I tried several #s too


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## Monty (Dec 5, 2001)

S1's have appeared to recieved a bad down load some time after Thanksgiving.

Monty

(looks like my sig is D.E.A.D also.....)


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

cpicard71 said:


> Funny I am experiencing the same issue. I tried to troubleshoot the modem, and decided to try a guided setup, not knowing you can't back out of it. I'm stuck at the first setup call. I run on a cable modem phone, through cable not over internet.. I had them come out and check everything, my cable modem got fried a bit too, so I am ordering a modem kit. Now I wonder since other people recently are having this issue, is Tivo trying to force us to lose our subscriptions(lifetime)? Philips is no longer servicing our units, and Tivo doesn't tell you that. You can't upgrade w/o losing your subscription. I'll be doing the same thing if this kit doesn't work. Putting the Tivo aside until they get smart enough to let us buy a new unit and transfer service. I will be annoyed if it is them.. I wonder if they sent us some bogus software glitch. I can't wait to see what gets posted- I am in FL, and I tried several #s too


My Series 1 Phillips with lifetime is downloading data just fine over a broadband connection. The Beta being referred to is for the failure to record suggestions on these units, not for downloading program information.


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## stevesk (Dec 24, 2008)

We have two Philips Tivo S1's (both purchased when Tivo first released them), both with lifetime subs.

One is fine, the other began getting the "call interrupted" problem about a month ago. We do not have call waiting. Test calls and setting clock went through fine, but after about 10 minutes of "downloading.." the calls errored out. I changed dial in numbers, etc, and found that if I forced an update roughly 10 times in a row, the call would eventually complete successfully.

I thought it must be a phone line problem (although we haven't done anything to our phones in years), so I bought a Turbonet card for the unit. Installed it two weeks ago. Over ethernet, I'm having exactly the same problem -- test calls work, but after a few minutes of "downloading" during a forced or nightly update, I get the "call interrupted" message and the update fails.

I haven't had time to call Tivo yet, but based on what I'm hearing from others, wonder if it's worth the effort. Sounds like Tivo support doesn't handle the old Philips S1's anymore. Has anyone found a fix? Seems a shame to dump our Tivo and lose the lifetime subscription when I don't think the problem is related to hardware..


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## aapokel (Dec 26, 2008)

I have a Tivo S1 with CacheCard (and network interface) & 120GB HD and I've successfully applied the manual DST time patch and everything is working well.

Just a question here though, can anyone confirm that the Tivo patch WILL NOT break anything with CacheCard? Some told me it will, while some others told me "don worry"...


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## klentz (Feb 26, 2003)

I have a Series 1 with lifetime subscription. Unplugged it a couple of weeks ago to clean underneath. Now it no longer will make a successful call. Service Unavailable. Since so many people with Series 1's are having the issue, I think it's a Tivo problem. If they don't have a fix and won't apply the subscription to a new Tivo, then it's time to get a lawyer.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Lawyer? Really? Good luck with that.

Having said that, I suspect that if you ask them nicely, they might actually be offered something better than nothing.


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## mitchb9 (Nov 12, 2006)

Intermittent successful update over phone.

This started happening in December. Last successful update was Jan 8. I always have to manually initiate since I have no phone jack nearby.

Test calls are successful but like many others it's very hit or miss to successfully complete download.

This can't be coincidence with so many different S1 people experiencing similar problem.

Mitch
Lifetime SV2000 since 2001
Lifetme HD since Last week


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## ditch (Jul 22, 2003)

Same here, this sucks! 

Any resolution yet?


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## rkshack (May 6, 2002)

klentz said:


> I have a Series 1 with lifetime subscription. Unplugged it a couple of weeks ago to clean underneath. Now it no longer will make a successful call. Service Unavailable. Since so many people with Series 1's are having the issue, I think it's a Tivo problem. If they don't have a fix and won't apply the subscription to a new Tivo, then it's time to get a lawyer.


I know this is an old issue. Series 1 seems to have problem if it does not connect for a long time. If you clear and delete everything except the program data that usually fixes things.

Rkshack


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## rkshack (May 6, 2002)

klentz said:


> I have a Series 1 with lifetime subscription. Unplugged it a couple of weeks ago to clean underneath. Now it no longer will make a successful call. Service Unavailable. Since so many people with Series 1's are having the issue, I think it's a Tivo problem. If they don't have a fix and won't apply the subscription to a new Tivo, then it's time to get a lawyer.


I know this is an old issue. Series 1 seems to have problem if it does not connect for a long time. If you clear and delete everything except the program data that usually fixes things.

Rkshack


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

You can also try leaving it powered up but disconnecting the phone line for a couple of days to allow it time to do a full garbage collection. If it hasn't connected in a long time, it's got a lot of work to do from scratch to delete two weeks worth of data before it can call in.


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