# 1/2/3 year commitment to activate a used tivo? Is tivo crazy?



## sWampy (Dec 10, 2002)

Can't believe, I picked up a used series 2 tivo for my kids room at a garage sale for $5, thought it would be good for my kids room. I have a tivo with lifetime service on it, and thought $7 a month for my son to have his own would be cool. Call them up to activate it, they inform me I will have to commit to 3 years to get it to $7 a month, 2 years and it's $9, 3 and it's $11. Are they on crack? I'm trying to hook back up a used piece of equipment they are making nothing off of, that will be pretty much obsolete in Feb 2009 if not sooner, and they want to make me commit to a minimum of a year.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

I would think a $25 activation fee would be more in their interest.


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## sWampy (Dec 10, 2002)

GoodSpike said:


> I would think a $25 activation fee would be more in their interest.


I'd pay that, as it is, I'm most likely going to take the 80 gig hd out, stick it in a usb case and have as extra storage on my NAS box.

They have a generous $200 buyout if you later want to break the agreement, box dies $200. :down: :down: :down:


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

This has been discussed extensively in the TiVo Coffee House section since it was introduced last fall.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=325913


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Things cost money. It is a fact of life. Prices tend to be the higher of how much it costs to provide something and how much it is worth to the marketplace in general. When that number is higher than what you personally like, it's a shame, but nothing remarkable.


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## Gai-jin (Feb 28, 2000)

sWampy said:


> 1/2/3 year commitment to activate a used tivo? Is tivo crazy?


Yes.


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## Mars Rocket (Mar 24, 2000)

sWampy said:


> I will have to commit to 3 years to get it to $7 a month, 2 years and it's $9, 3 and it's $11.


I'm pretty sure that last 3 should be a 1.

So you're complaining that they require at least a 1-year commitment, or that the price is too high? They offer a service. $11/month isn't very high in the scheme of how much other things cost like cell phones or an HBO subscription. Most cell phone and DSL plans require at least a 1-year commitment.

It sucks that you can't get everything for free, but oh well. Doesn't bother me too much. Is ReplayTV still around? Do their first-generation units with lifetime subscription still work?


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## Gai-jin (Feb 28, 2000)

Mars Rocket said:


> I'm pretty sure that last 3 should be a 1.
> 
> So you're complaining that they require at least a 1-year commitment, or that the price is too high? They offer a service. $11/month isn't very high in the scheme of how much other things cost like cell phones or an HBO subscription. Most cell phone and DSL plans require at least a 1-year commitment.
> 
> It sucks that you can't get everything for free, but oh well. Doesn't bother me too much. Is ReplayTV still around? Do their first-generation units with lifetime subscription still work?


You're missing the point entirely. The issue is that USED equipment is requiring a contract and higher prices. The contract and higher prices on new equipment make sense since it is subsidizing the cost of the equipment, but if I own a 3 year old tivo and want to re-activate it or give it to someone else after I've deactivated the unit, there should be no requirement for a contract, since I've already fulfilled the required time.


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## sWampy (Dec 10, 2002)

Mars Rocket said:


> I'm pretty sure that last 3 should be a 1.
> 
> So you're complaining that they require at least a 1-year commitment, or that the price is too high? They offer a service. $11/month isn't very high in the scheme of how much other things cost like cell phones or an HBO subscription. Most cell phone and DSL plans require at least a 1-year commitment.
> 
> It sucks that you can't get everything for free, but oh well. Doesn't bother me too much. Is ReplayTV still around? Do their first-generation units with lifetime subscription still work?


None of those places force you into a commitment on used equipment. It's stupid as hell for tivo to do this. I realize they are a dying company, but $7 a month is better than nothing, when I signed up for my lifetime service on the tivo I have, it was with the understanding that any tivo's I added would always be with the discount, and without commitment.

It's sad to see a company that had defined the name that the world knows dvr by die on the vine.

I'm a pretty big tivo fan, had one since the 14 hour series ones, and come September, if not before, I'm going to end up taking direct tv up on their offer for 2 new hd dvr's to replace my hr10's, when they go, since I won't have them to share shows with my standalone player, I'll most likely dump it on ebay, and they will loose yet another loyal customer.

I'm the one dozens and dozens of my friends and family comes to, to ask what kind of equipment to buy, and it's been at least 2 years since I could honestly recommend a tivo product as the best option for anyone I know.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

With a New Tivo, or a reconditioned Unit (carries the same warranty as New) then I can understand the 1,2 or 3 Year commitment at the appropriate price. Tivo makes no Money with the actual Unit, but its the commitment where they make that up.

But with a used unit, Tivo have already covered there costs and made money. Yet you must make another commitment for 1,2 or 3 Years and pay exactly the same. Also, you have no Warranty, so the unit goes out, your s**t out of luck.

Other companies with commitments be it for DSL, Cellphone etc are the same except the equipment is New. You are covered not only by Warranty, but many have a protection plan in place. Tivo does not even offer this.

What Tivo is hoping for is that the used equipment with a New commitment dies early. You either have to get another unit to replace that one (more money made) or give up and pay the early termination fee. Tivo wins... you lose!

Yes, Tivo defined the DVR world, but the others are catching up and will soon surpass them. Others equipment is becoming better and better. 

I agree that an activation fee and a Monthly fee with no commitment would be far better. Tivo still makes money with the activation fee, and Monthly payment, but it also protects the user in case something happens. That or offer a Warranty on used equipment and we all know this will not happen


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

sWampy said:


> Can't believe, I picked up a used series 2 tivo for my kids room at a garage sale for $5, thought it would be good for my kids room. I have a tivo with lifetime service on it, and thought $7 a month for my son to have his own would be cool. Call them up to activate it, they inform me I will have to commit to 3 years to get it to $7 a month, 2 years and it's $9, 3 and it's $11. Are they on crack? I'm trying to hook back up a used piece of equipment they are making nothing off of, that will be pretty much obsolete in Feb 2009 if not sooner, and they want to make me commit to a minimum of a year.


You all forgetting the commitment is not 3 years for THAT TiVo as Lifetime Service was for only one TiVo, the commitment is 3 years of TiVo service, you can change boxes at will without making another commitment. In a year (or whenever) when you want to get say a Series 3 for your kids room and dump the Series 2 you just change TSN numbers on the TiVo web sight and you Series 3 will have service, and your kids will be so happy.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

lessd said:


> You all forgetting the commitment is not 3 years for THAT TiVo as Lifetime Service was for only one TiVo, the commitment is 3 years of TiVo service, you can change boxes at will without making another commitment. In a year (or whenever) when you want to get say a Series 3 for your kids room and dump the Series 2 you just change TSN numbers on the TiVo web sight and you Series 3 will have service, and your kids will be so happy.


The OP has a Tivo unit with lifetime Service. Under no contract at all.

All paid up, no Monthly fee, nothing.

The OP wants to add another Tivo unit to their account, and was happy to pay for the Monthly Service for the new unit. BUT forcing someone into a 1, 2 or 3 Year commitment for a used tivo unit is just wrong!

Why not allow the OP to pay a Monthly Fee for service, that they are willing to pay without the Term Commitment?

I doubt very seriously, if the OP took say the 3 Year Term on the Series 2 at $6.95 a Month Service then in a Years time say decided to go out and purchase a Series 3, could replace the Series 2 with the 3 and carry on the Commitment with the Series3. I could almost say you would not only get stuck paying for the Series 2 Commitment (or early Termination fee) but would also be paying a whole new Commitment for the Series 3!

The only way you could do what you are saying, is if you had a unit (say the Series 2) it died under warranty and you replaced it with a new unit the same as the old one (Series 2).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

wolflord11 said:


> The OP has a Tivo unit with lifetime Service. Under no contract at all.
> 
> All paid up, no Monthly fee, nothing.
> 
> ...


You are incorrect, you can xfer ANY monthly service commitment (except for the rebate TiVos which does not apply in this case) to any other TiVo (or TiVo model) at any time, the only restrictions on Xfers are for TiVos with Lifetime Service and some Pre-Paid contracts.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

sWampy said:


> I'm the one dozens and dozens of my friends and family comes to, to ask what kind of equipment to buy, and it's been at least 2 years since I could honestly recommend a tivo product as the best option for anyone I know.


Same with me. I evangelized 5 other people in the office to get TiVos. But, since the new, utterly incompresible pricing*, I haven't evangelized anyone else.

*Yes the pricing is probably not incomprehensible. I work in ASIC design, I'm sure I've got the brains to figure out the pricing (including all the ridiculous caveats and exceptions) if I put my mind to it. But that shouldn't be necessary! The pricing is too complicated for a typical engineer to want to deal with except for "fun". And I have much better things to do with my "fun" time. And if the pricing is too compicated for a typical engineer, then it's too complicated for a typical consumer.

Compare with typical DVR pricing from the cable company: $5/mo for SD DVR or $10/mo for HD DVR. No purchase. No commitment. Even Joe Sixpack can understand that.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

wolflord11 said:


> BUT forcing someone into a 1, 2 or 3 Year commitment for a used tivo unit is just wrong!


Which commandment is being violated?



wolflord11 said:


> Why not allow the OP to pay a Monthly Fee for service, that they are willing to pay without the Term Commitment?


Generally, companies rarely share their pricing strategies with the general public. There is nothing to be gained from doing so. We can speculate, though, and the most logical speculation I can imagine is that they figured that the commitment results in a better long-term value for shareholders. If there is any commandments that apply here, it is surely "Thou shalt maximize long-term shareholder value."


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## dhoward (Mar 15, 2002)

I thought I understood the MSD rules. But after reading this thread I think not. I have a Series 1 and a S2DT. The series 1 (Sony) is a lifetime. Last year I bought the S2DT (Retail) and got the $6.95 rate under MSD. My wife has been using the S1 and she decided she would like the S2DT. We decided to take advantage of the lifetime transfer offer and ordered the S2DT. Be here next week. We were going to give our daughter the S1. She already has a lifetime S1 of her own and was going to activate it under MSD for $6.95/month. How does she get the $6.95 rate in the least painful way. The S1 is fully operational but she does not want to commit to a multi-year contract.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Huh, I was going to do the transfer offer as well, but now I may not. Way to go, TiVo! 

The whole point was to *not* be committed to the old S1, which may be obsolete very soon. But I don't want to retire it, either, as it still has some useful life left. I thought I might even loan it to my friends who are stuck in VCR-land. But with this ridiculous scheme, I would have to make another long-term committment just to re-activate it for the moment. No thanks :down:


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## dhoward (Mar 15, 2002)

I read the link, posted at the beginning of this thread and I have a question regarding the following statement:

*"Q. What happens to any boxes that I currently have under the $6.95 / month Multi-Service Discount (MSD) program?
A. Boxes currently covered under the MSD program will continue to be billed as they are today as long as the status of the account does not change and they continue to be eligible for the discount under the original program."
*

My second unit is another S2DT that I purchased before Tivo changed their pricing structure last fall. I pay the $6.95 without a yearly commitment. The part about "account not changing" bothers me a little. Since this is a special offer and I am transferring lifetime from one unit to another does this allow Tivo to claim the account status has changed?


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## rmassey (Sep 5, 2002)

A neighbor gave me a Tivo S2, 40 GB DT. I just purchased an S3 and activated it with the 3 yr prepay. I was thinking of activating the S2 someday, but not with the current pricing.

I'll prob just get an eSata drive instead and have the one S3 with a TB of storage and call it a day. Too bad for Tivo, I would have gone for $6.95/mo on the S2 with no commit, but nothing more.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I agree with everyone who thinks that the commitment requirement for old units is ridiculous and counter-productive. Obviously TiVo thinks otherwise, and probably has data to back it up, but it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth that they treat existing customers like this, and no other service that I know of requires a commitment time for "BYOE" subscriptions.
:down:


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

MickeS said:


> I agree with everyone who thinks that the commitment requirement for old units is ridiculous and counter-productive. Obviously TiVo thinks otherwise, and probably has data to back it up, but it leaves a really bad taste in my mouth that they treat existing customers like this, and no other service that I know of requires a commitment time for "BYOE" subscriptions.
> :down:


Another Satisfied Customer. Come on Tivo, listen to your users.



lessd said:


> You are incorrect, you can xfer ANY monthly service commitment (except for the rebate TiVos which does not apply in this case) to any other TiVo (or TiVo model) at any time, the only restrictions on Xfers are for TiVos with Lifetime Service and some Pre-Paid contracts.


Thank you for that information. I was unaware that you could basically swap out a Tivo unit with another while staying on the same commitment. Interesting.

Of course there are some restrictions: the rebate Tivos, Lifetime units (unless Tivo has a special Deal. The Series 3 Deal was one, there currently also is a Series 1 to Seres 2 Deal also) And of course the Series 1 Lifetimes activated before a certain Date that have a one time transfer included in the contract.



dhoward said:


> I thought I understood the MSD rules. But after reading this thread I think not. I have a Series 1 and a S2DT. The series 1 (Sony) is a lifetime. Last year I bought the S2DT (Retail) and got the $6.95 rate under MSD. My wife has been using the S1 and she decided she would like the S2DT. We decided to take advantage of the lifetime transfer offer and ordered the S2DT. Be here next week. We were going to give our daughter the S1. She already has a lifetime S1 of her own and was going to activate it under MSD for $6.95/month. How does she get the $6.95 rate in the least painful way. The S1 is fully operational but she does not want to commit to a multi-year contract.


So you currently have a Series 1 with Lifetime, and a Series S2DT for $6.95 a Month (3 Year Commitment). You have taken the Series 2 Upgrade on the Series 1, so you will get a Series 2DT with lifetime Service.

Your Daughter has a Series 1 Lifetime. The only way she could get the $6.95 MSD for your old Series 1 is to commit to a Three Year Commitment. For MSD, its the Normal Rate of the unit be it 1, 2 or 3 Years minus $6.00 a Month.

Also, its a used unit with No Warranty. If she even signed up for a One Year, and the unit broke down, you are stuck with paying out the term of the commitment, meaning you would need to replace the unit, or be paying for service you can not use, or pay the early termination fee. Good Luck 



dcheesi said:


> The whole point was to not be committed to the old S1, which may be obsolete very soon. But I don't want to retire it, either, as it still has some useful life left. I thought I might even loan it to my friends who are stuck in VCR-land. But with this ridiculous scheme, I would have to make another long-term committment just to re-activate it for the moment. No thanks


Another satisfied Tivo customer. LOL. Atleast some of us can see how ridiculous Tivo's special offers have become. Way to go Tivo!



dhoward said:


> My second unit is another S2DT that I purchased before Tivo changed their pricing structure last fall. I pay the $6.95 without a yearly commitment. The part about "account not changing" bothers me a little. Since this is a special offer and I am transferring lifetime from one unit to another does this allow Tivo to claim the account status has changed?


Who really knows? I would assume the Account does not change. You have changed the Hardware (Tivo unit) but still have a Lifetime Account. And it would be pointless asking a Tivo CSR, as you probally will get 5 different stories 

A neighbor gave me a Tivo S2, 40 GB DT. I just purchased an S3 and activated it with the 3 yr prepay. I was thinking of activating the S2 someday, but not with the current pricing.



rmassey said:


> I'll prob just get an eSata drive instead and have the one S3 with a TB of storage and call it a day. Too bad for Tivo, I would have gone for $6.95/mo on the S2 with no commit, but nothing more.


Yet another satified Tivo customer. People are not happy with this Term Commitment issue of Tivo's. If Tivo actually listened to its own customers, maybe Tivo as a company would be better off.

The whole Tivo pricing structure is out of whack. Theres Lifetime (understandable) and prepay (again understandable) then all the Term and Rate commitments: 1, 2 and 3 Years, each being a different rate. But there are more than this:

I for one pay $19.95 a Month for 1 Year. But it was a special Tivo/Bellsouth Deal. My Series 2 costed nothing, shipped to my Door. I received after 3 Months of paying service a full rebate of those 3 Months (thats the special deal). So after working it out, I pay $12.95 a Month for 1 Year of Service.

A much easier pricing plan would be this: Customer pays a certain amount each Month for Service (X Dollars). The First unit on the account is free. Each additional unit costs x dollars a Month extra. You could have a commitment be it 1, 2 or 3 Years, but charge the same for them all. If the Service is good, people would be willing to sign up for the longer Term.

Thats how most Companies do it (Directv, Cell Companies etc).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Same with me. I evangelized 5 other people in the office to get TiVos. But, since the new, utterly incompresible pricing*, I haven't evangelized anyone else.
> 
> *Yes the pricing is probably not incomprehensible. I work in ASIC design, I'm sure I've got the brains to figure out the pricing (including all the ridiculous caveats and exceptions) if I put my mind to it. But that shouldn't be necessary! The pricing is too complicated for a typical engineer to want to deal with except for "fun". And I have much better things to do with my "fun" time. And if the pricing is too compicated for a typical engineer, then it's too complicated for a typical consumer.
> 
> Compare with typical DVR pricing from the cable company: $5/mo for SD DVR or $10/mo for HD DVR. No purchase. No commitment. Even Joe Sixpack can understand that.


Your post is right on that why Lifetime Service (or just monthly service) was the only way to go because you could understand it and the TiVo was transferable, that meant you could sell the unit and get back most or more than you $299 lifetime fee (or cancel you monthly fee), also no service/sales tax could never be assessed in the future for Lifetime Service. The only reason i can see for this $#@#$ pricing is that TiVo had too much churn. I like when i can fully pay for something and use it at will, I know I can't do that with any phone or cable or Internet service, but each of those services have many different plans for the type of service you are getting, for TiVo the type of service only depends on the model of TiVo you purchase (SD, HD, movie downloads n/a on a Series 1 ETC.).


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

dhoward said:


> I read the link, posted at the beginning of this thread and I have a question regarding the following statement:
> 
> *"Q. What happens to any boxes that I currently have under the $6.95 / month Multi-Service Discount (MSD) program?
> A. Boxes currently covered under the MSD program will continue to be billed as they are today as long as the status of the account does not change and they continue to be eligible for the discount under the original program."
> ...


Yeap. if your credit card is changed for the old MSD, because you may have to cancel a stolen credit card, and your may have forgot to tell TiVo.... they will say, your account has changed and we have to charge you a new rate when we update your new credit card. Since,"you" forgot....I say "tricky tricky tivo......" So, the we better make sure the account it good every month, or they will get cha....


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## gizmo123 (Mar 22, 2006)

MediaLivingRoom said:


> Yeap. if your credit card is changed for the old MSD, because you may have to cancel a stolen credit card, and your may have forgot to tell TiVo.... they will say, your account has changed and we have to charge you a new rate when we update your new credit card. Since,"you" forgot....I say "tricky tricky tivo......" So, the we better make sure the account it good every month, or they will get cha....


Uhh, I don't think so. My card expired 2 months ago and I provided them with a new card. Still only getting charged $6.95 per month.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

sWampy said:


> I realize they are a dying company,


And now you realize one of the reasons.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

bicker said:


> Which commandment is being violated?
> 
> Generally, companies rarely share their pricing strategies with the general public. There is nothing to be gained from doing so. We can speculate, though, and the most logical speculation I can imagine is that they figured that the commitment results in a better long-term value for shareholders. If there is any commandments that apply here, it is surely "Thou shalt maximize long-term shareholder value."


in TiVo inc's last earnings report they specifically made mention of how the average sub over all standalones is now just under 10$ and they hoped to see it go up to 10$ over the year. All the pricing policies are designed around what that average sub amount will be.

I wonder what the response would be if the policy on an older Tivo was 10$ monthly or 6.95 with a 3 year commitment? the 25$ activation fee would solve the problem of people subbing more on a whim and then cancelling again in a few months, but I now see it would not be helping the average sub price TiVo is working with as a metric for achieving their business goals


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

wolflord11 said:


> Why not allow the OP to pay a Monthly Fee for service, that they are willing to pay without the Term Commitment?


I don't like the new pricing either, but I can tell you the OP wouldn't like it if they did have that option. Since Tivo changed the MSD to be $6 off of regular pricing and raised that pricing, it would most likely be even higher (something like $12.99/mo.).

So, 3 years committment= $7/mo
2 years = $9
1 year= $11
No commitment= $13

Not to answer for the OP, but that would be a non-starter based on reading their posts.


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