# Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??



## DVRaholic

*CrazyFred,* ,

You were right on the Money about the 6.2 upgrade starting may 16th. Thanks for letting us know this information.

The Only problem Im having now is with the Update to my SD-DVR40 
and SD-DVR80 is Now my HR10-250 is Really Really SLOW!

I know they will start swapping out the HR10-250 near the end of this year for the new MPGE4 receivers, and I will be probably one of the first to get swapped out (NY is market #1)

But I need a Speed increase for the HR10-250 NOW!!!. 
It has become "disgustingly" slow. It took me nearly 5 minutes 
when scheduling a season pass for the "please wait" to clear the screen.

Since we paid so much for our HD-Tivos the least D* can do is let us ENJOY the next 6 months or so with a faster more Efficient HD-Tivo

From what Ive read on various forums its believed that D* has the Update for the HR10-250 ready to go but they are waiting out the SD update.

Is this true CrazyFred ??? If so are they still planning to send the update soon ???

Any Information will be Greatly Appreciated

Thank You.


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## rminsk

The rumor I heard is that they will start testing a 6.x release for the HR10-250 after the rollout of 6.2 is complete.


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## DVRaholic

rminsk said:


> The rumor I heard is that they will start testing a 6.x release for the HR10-250 after the rollout of 6.2 is complete.


Thanks rminsk, I know about this rumor also. 
The problem is that this Rumor was out before the
announcement of the conversion to MPEG4.

Dan collins has said in his forum wouldn't be surprised if they dont send the update for the HR10-250 since they will be swapping out soon.

I hope this is Not True


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## DVRaholic

I,m a bit SURPRISED that as of now with nearly 200 views, NO one else has contributed to this thread..

Im I the ONLY HR10-250 owner that wants to see this 6.2 Upgrade ??!!

Feel free to voice your opinions.... maybe D* will take notice !


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## georgemoe

IMHO, we HR10-250 owners are such a small piece of the pie, I'm guessing we see nothing in the way of an update. Sad.

I wish there was one just for the speed alone. My SD Series1 is light years faster. That shouldn't be.


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## CPD

Yep, I had a 5+ minute wait the other day just picking one show for recording from the guide. I then switched to a music channel and selected another show for recording and it finished in about 20 seconds. This thing really struggles when you have HD channels on both tuners.

Chris


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## bahopkins

I moved from a Series 2 SA unit to an HR10-250 a few months ago. I definitely miss folders! The speed issue isn't that important to me, but having to scroll through the list pulls a major vacuum.


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## k2ue

The lack of any comment of consequence on 6.x for HD box says one of two things is happening, either:

1. Nothing at all is happening, thus nothing to say, or;

2. There is a beta of 6.x for the HD box underway now, and anybody who knows anything is under NDA.

I wish a little bird would whisper a number in my ear. . .


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## Kamakzie

I would very much welcome the 6.2 upgrade to my HD Tivo.


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## chris_h

TivoAholic said:


> I,m a bit SURPRISED that as of now with nearly 200 views, NO one else has contributed to this thread..
> 
> Im I the ONLY HR10-250 owner that wants to see this 6.2 Upgrade ??!!
> 
> Feel free to voice your opinions.... maybe D* will take notice !


I too want to see 6.2 on the HR10-250. But I am not under any illusions that D* will take notice.


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## TimGoodwin

I'm still waiting for it on my SD Directivo let alone my HR10-250. I guess I don't know what I'm missing.


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## diagoro

I don't expect much in the way of an upgrade. I have a 50 " plasma and have never had good sd picture quality. Even the hd looks a bit 'grainy' at times (especially dark areas). Add to that the horrendous lag time. Especially with a plasma where I have to worry about burn in, the damn menus that NEVER seem to go away....

I have several ds tivos that now rock, blazing with their new upgrade. It's sad. I don't know if the hd tivo has grown slower, but I know the disparity between the two has grown considerably. 

DirecTV has never taken responsibility for the issues I'm having. I'd love to switch theunit out but also have quite a bit of recorded programming there that never seems to get cleared out. I know, bit the bullet and take the hit. But from what I've read, even a switch would do little good.

In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....

I don;t expect an upgrade, at least not one that does any good. I believe most of the issues we're having are hardware related, ie, lack of proper memory, hard drive, hdmi interface.....

I'll leave it at that


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## luebster

diagoro said:


> In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....


I truly only have two complaints regarding the HDTivo:


It's too slow. We all know that.
Cannot explicitly choose "Only HD programming" for wishlists.

Sure, I'd like it to have CallerID, HMO, MRV, etc., but none of the D* DVRs have that (without hacking, of course).

So, the HDTivo compared to the other D* DVRs holds its own. Assuming the HR10-250 gets a 6.x upgrade, it'll take the cake.

...and yes, I know what happens when you ass-u-me. No flames, please.


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## DDayDawg

diagoro said:


> I don't expect much in the way of an upgrade. I have a 50 " plasma and have never had good sd picture quality. Even the hd looks a bit 'grainy' at times (especially dark areas). Add to that the horrendous lag time. Especially with a plasma where I have to worry about burn in, the damn menus that NEVER seem to go away....
> 
> I have several ds tivos that now rock, blazing with their new upgrade. It's sad. I don't know if the hd tivo has grown slower, but I know the disparity between the two has grown considerably.
> 
> DirecTV has never taken responsibility for the issues I'm having. I'd love to switch theunit out but also have quite a bit of recorded programming there that never seems to get cleared out. I know, bit the bullet and take the hit. But from what I've read, even a switch would do little good.
> 
> In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....
> 
> I don;t expect an upgrade, at least not one that does any good. I believe most of the issues we're having are hardware related, ie, lack of proper memory, hard drive, hdmi interface.....
> 
> I'll leave it at that


So let me understand here. You are getting bad picture quality in both SD and HD? Since this is not something that other HR10-250 owners are reporting I would assume it is your box. The PQ on mine is excellent, amazing in fact.

You throw in a few other comments which show some degree of ignorance about the equipment you are using, for example worrying about burn in because of a menu that gets stuck for five mins.

Then you say that DirecTV won't take responsibility but you refuse to switch out the unit.  What more can they do? They can't make a bad piece of hardware work more than anyone else can. They aren't magicians.

Now, like everyone else I want the upgrade and I get frustrated by the speed and lack of folders. But posts like this drive me crazy because it's a squeaky wheel that detracts away from the real issues. You are the technology equivalent of the little boy who cried wolf. Complaining about fixable problems that you chose not to let the company fix only takes away from the voices of people with real concerns.

I can respect what you have to say about the upgrade. But let DTV at least try to make it right in respect to the other issues. That's not crappy service, that's a crappy customer.


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## diagoro

I must admit that my response was a bit confusing and lacked the full details...

Since I purchased the 10-250 I've had at least five DirecTV techs come to the house and inspect the unit. All tried to push it off on the tv. Odd, seeing as how EVERY other source looked great....

Two of the techs didn't even know what 'hdmi' was, both stating that componant is the 'top tier' of reception.

All I've ever been told is to contact my tv manafacturer, yet you know as well as I do...all they will say is contact the sat company. 

The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????

I have never been given the express option to trade in just yet, only to wait for the update. I'm sure I could stay on the phone for a few hours and haggle my way to one, but all things considered, is it worth my time? I've had other issues as well, lots of blackouts during broadcasts, both definitions and live/recorded. Do I risk getting a refurbished unit with a hard drive/hdmi unit or live with what I have????

I'd appreciate not being called ignorant, especially when you're not here in my house watching my plasm get burned in......and didn't pay a cent. No, I am not the customer who cried wolf. I rarely post here, only doing so when I have a legitimate thought or question/answer.......

It seems that comments like yours are what will detract from the board in the long run....

So thanks


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## DDayDawg

diagoro said:


> I must admit that my response was a bit confusing and lacked the full details...
> 
> Since I purchased the 10-250 I've had at least five DirecTV techs come to the house and inspect the unit. All tried to push it off on the tv. Odd, seeing as how EVERY other source looked great....
> 
> Two of the techs didn't even know what 'hdmi' was, both stating that componant is the 'top tier' of reception.
> 
> All I've ever been told is to contact my tv manafacturer, yet you know as well as I do...all they will say is contact the sat company.
> 
> The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????
> 
> I have never been given the express option to trade in just yet, only to wait for the update. I'm sure I could stay on the phone for a few hours and haggle my way to one, but all things considered, is it worth my time? I've had other issues as well, lots of blackouts during broadcasts, both definitions and live/recorded. Do I risk getting a refurbished unit with a hard drive/hdmi unit or live with what I have????
> 
> I'd appreciate not being called ignorant, especially when you're not here in my house watching my plasm get burned in......and didn't pay a cent. No, I am not the customer who cried wolf. I rarely post here, only doing so when I have a legitimate thought or question/answer.......
> 
> It seems that comments like yours are what will detract from the board in the long run....
> 
> So thanks


People are ignorant about many things. Don't make the mistake of thinking that I am calling you stupid, I am not. At the risk of further straining relations let me ask you a few things.

Who? You say technicians came to your house. Who's technicians? DirecTV does not have any technicians. They have contractors who they hire to install dishes and run cable but I have not heard of them sending people to your house to check equipment. These people they contract with are cable runners/install techs and you are hitting them with a Computer Engineering question. Of course they can't help you.

Did you call DirecTV and tell them there is a problem? Did you ask them to switch out the box? (They have a very good track record on switching out boxes so I can't imagine they would refuse). You talk of staying on the phone for hours, and at times it can be trying, but I don't think that is very accurate. Sure, switching out a $1000 box takes a little bit of time to ensure that they, and you, get what is expected out of the deal. They want to be sure there isn't a easy fix they can't handle over the phone.

DirecTV has been very good about switching bad units out. Some mistakes and some hassle but nothing to wide spread or over the top. I do think it's kinda funny that you are willing to live with something that seems to not work at all instead of risking getting a working refurb unit. I don't understand it in the least but it's funny.

The overall point was that you obviously have not taken the proper steps to get your issue resolved. There are literally hundreds of people on this board who faced similar problems that you are facing and have had DirecTV take care of them. DTV isn't perfect by any means but by complaining about things they have a really good track record of fixing it takes away from the discussion of real issues that could benefit the whole 10-250 community. I'm sorry if you took offense at my use of the word ignorant, that was not my intention.


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## Waldorf

diagoro said:


> The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????


Just to make sure.. go into the settings menu and make sure the video setting is set to output 1080i or 720p... Default out of the box, mine was set to 480i and I thought something was setup wrong on my projector at first. Well... TNT isn't HD (yet) but it's still something to check.


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## AbMagFab

luebster said:


> I truly only have two complaints regarding the HDTivo:
> 
> 
> It's too slow. We all know that.
> Cannot explicitly choose "Only HD programming" for wishlists.


You can easily do a wishlist for "Only HD". After doing the title/keyword/actor/whatever, Just pick the category, audio/video, HD.


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## luebster

AbMagFab said:


> You can easily do a wishlist for "Only HD". After doing the title/keyword/actor/whatever, Just pick the category, audio/video, HD.


That's a fine idea. The only trouble is, I also like to use the sports/whatever filter as well. Unfortunately, you can't select two filters.

For now, I've removed any SD channels that have a simulcast HD signal (all the nets, ESPN on 206, etc).

I'd be eager to hear another suggestion or perhaps I'm not using yours in the manner you suggest?


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## youngcr

D* is probably BS'ing me, but here's the latest I've gotten from them:

From: Feedback
Sent: 05/19/2005 7:03 AM
To: 
Subject: RE: HD 6.2 Upgrade [Incident: XXXXX] [Incident: XXXXXXXXx]

05/19/2005 04:03 AM

Dear,

Thanks for writing. You receiver (HR10-250) is indeed going to have it's 6.2 Software Upgrade. Please refer to previous email for more information regarding the upgrade.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTVcom for the latest news's and information about our service.

Sincerely,

XXXXX
DIRECTV Customer Service

---------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message Follows:

05/19/2005 03:40 AM

So you're telling me the HR10-250 is getting the upgrade?

-----Original Message-----
From: Feedback
Sent: 05/18/2005 11:32 PM
To: 
05/18/2005 08:32 PM

Dear,

Thank you for writing. I am sorry to hear that you have not received the 6.2 upgrade for your DVR. Based on our information, the upgrade will be taking place through June of 2005. To prepare for the upgrade, please make sure you are doing the following:

*Keep phone line connected to receiver. 
*Make sure your DVR is making regular callbacks to TiVo. 
*When upgrade starts, follow instructions on screen.

After the upgrade, some settings go back to factory defaults:

*My Preferences - Menu item is removed. Most of the options are now in "Settings." 
*Favorite Channels - List will be empty. 
*Channels You Receive - List is reset so that all channels are checked. 
*Channel Banner time out - If customer had changed it to "Clear Banner Quickly," it will go back to "Display Banner Normally." 
*Spending Limits - Changed to $10.

I hope that this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns.

Thank you again for writing. Please don't forget to register to access your account at DIRECTVcom/MyDIRECTV. Managing your account online is the fast and easy way to pay your bill, order pay per view, change your programming and much more!

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXX
DIRECTV Customer Service


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## tfederov

Push it. Ask them when.


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## Gotchaa

The CS is probably confused about which box you have, that sounds like non-HD boxes get upgraded through June


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## nabsltd

luebster said:


> That's a fine idea. The only trouble is, I also like to use the sports/whatever filter as well. Unfortunately, you can't select two filters.


Cheat.

Use a keyword wishlist and add "baseball" or "sports" or whatever to the other keywords. It will pick up the category just fine. Then, use "Audio & Video/HDTV" as the category.


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## holcomb76

i called direct tv and asked about the new mpeg receivers, they informed me that the new ones will be supported as well as all the old tivo units. i have been told that all receivers will need to changed out. any thoughts?


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## kroddy

diagoro said:


> I
> 
> The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????


Fox Sports World, and latterly the Soccer channel are horribly overcompressed and have never looked good... (in fact all the SD channels are over-compressed, but with it's constant back and forth camera motion and fine detail movement soccer is one of the things that suffers most from excessive MPEG compression). Ironically the bigger and better your TV, the more you can see the ill-effects of this overcompression. No software upgrade to the TiVo and nothing you can do to your TV will ever make this any better.

D* have no interest in picture quality. They are simply playing a numbers game with the cable companies saying they are offering "hundreds of channels in digital quality". They are catering to the millions watching on their $199 Walmart 27" sets, not our little niche market of people who are really interested in quality.


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## Savageone79

The new HD DVR boxes will be a ways away still (Probably a year or more) so I would bet we see the 6.2 upgrade for the HD tivo sometime in the not to distant future.


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## videojanitor

I will add to the pile and say that yes, I would definitely welcome 6.2 on my HD TiVo, especially if it speeds up the creation/editing of Season Passes. Holy cow ... sometimes I just want to make a minor adjustment, like changing the recording time from "Stop Recording 2 minutes later" to "On Time" -- and in just doing that, I have to stare at the "Please Stand By" graphic for up to five minutes! I only have about 15 SPs, so I'm not sure why it should take soooooo long.


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## richierich

I would love to get the 6.2 Release provided that it works better than the POS "f" version that just came out awhile back. I had to run SpinRite again to clear up the pixellation/freezing/stuttering problems and now it runs fine but it's a pain in the ass to have to disconnect everything from the Tivo, take out the hard drives, put them in my PC and then boot up and run in Level 4 for 5 days. I would get rid of that POS WD hard drive if I didn't have alot of recordings that I didn't want to get rid of or offload to DVDs.

I would like to have folders and I understand that this version restructures the data base but I don't know how they can do that in a download and not lose current recordings which would be structured differently. I also would like to have CallerID.


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## georgemoe

videojanitor said:


> I only have about 15 SPs, so I'm not sure why it should take soooooo long.


Same here VJ. We left a few season passes on the S1 TiVo and have about the same SP's as you on the HR. Skin will form on pudding before you get control back from any adjustments.


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## Morg111

""""""""""""The picture continues to look like &*@#^, especially channels like TNT and Fox Sports (especially world and soccer). I'm assuming I should be able to distinguish the players uniform numbers or even faces?????"""""""""""""""""


I couldn't agree more!!! I have a Fujitsu P50 with a HD Leeza scaler in the middle. The Directv SD looks horrible. TNT / Spike are unwatchable. Massive mpeg artifacts noise, and jaggies everywhere. All testing has been performed.....its the Sat signal.  

M.


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## DVRaholic

Man oh Man... Its getting WORSE.

I just set up a season pass for "Hell's Kitchen" on my HR10-250 
and it took nearly *6 minutes* to complete!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Might start using my SD-DVR80 fulltime (it has 6.2) until they 
Swap out or send the 6.2 update to the HR10-250

*CrazyFred, Dan Collins* ......
Any Insider Info about 6.2 and the HR10-250 ???? PLEEEASEEEE!!!
HELP


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## thumperxr69

TivoAholic said:


> Man oh Man... Its getting WORSE.
> 
> I just set up a season pass for "Hell's Kitchen" on my HR10-250
> and it took nearly *6 minutes* to complete!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I Might start using my SD-DVR80 fulltime (it has 6.2) until they
> Swap out or send the 6.2 update to the HR10-250
> 
> *CrazyFred, Dan Collins* ......
> Any Insider Info about 6.2 and the HR10-250 ???? PLEEEASEEEE!!!
> HELP


I hope you like Hell's Kitchen better than I. I have watched 30 minutes of the first episode and deleted the SP. He is too much of a tyrant.

T


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## richierich

Try deleting the Season Pass, unplug your unit, wait 1 minute, plug it back in and wait until it has acquired Guide data, then try entering it again and time it both times to see if there is a difference. How many Season Passes, Wishlists, and recordings do you have? The more SPs etc. the more info it has to process, this puppy needs a faster processor and a restructuring of the database which the next release will address as far as the database is concerned.


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## smatthew

Unless 6.2 has some major incompatability with the hr10-250 I would wager that we will get it after it has been rolled out to the SD DTiVos. They all run basically the same software - so technically we have a better chance of getting the bugs worked out by letting them experiment on the regular DTiVos. 

Especially since the swap out for mpeg4 equipment will take quite some time. I'm in DC and will supposedly get swapped out quickly, but there are some markets that won't be getting mpeg4 hd channels for quite some time. I would wager to say that there will be hr10-250 boxes out there for quite some time and since there is not much additional effort to get 6.2 to the hr10-250's, I think it will happen.


Then again I don't work for D*. They can do whatever they want. All we can do is speculate until it actually happens.


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## tivoboy

has anyone heard if there was ever a beta of 6.2 for HDTIVO's? to date, I have not.


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## STL

At least a couple people have seen a HR10-250 running what appeared to be 6.2 software -- because it had folders -- at the DirecTV booth at a trade show (cannot remember exactly which one). Somebody posted some screen shots of it too.


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## tivoboy

so, putting it on there, is possible of course, checkout the hacking and upgrade thread on the topic. But, as far as a roll out, hadn't heard.


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## Morg111

> At least a couple people have seen a HR10-250 running what appeared to be 6.2 software -- because it had folders -- at the DirecTV booth at a trade show (cannot remember exactly which one). Somebody posted some screen shots of it too.


Oh folders!!! How amazing that would be. I have an ongoing pile of BSG episodes from Universal HD that really have made the "Now Showing" list a pain in the ass.


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## PJO1966

Morg111 said:


> Oh folders!!! How amazing that would be. I have an ongoing pile of BSG episodes from Universal HD that really have made the "Now Showing" list a pain in the ass.


I think I have about 10 Second City TV episodes that could be very neatly stowed away in a folder.


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## richierich

I don't want the 6.2 upgrade because alot of people are having video problems with their TVs now not displaying colors accurately with horizontal banding, etc. I wish they would adequately stress test these upgrades before launching them.


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## Rich Peterson

The HR10-250 version of the software also adds support for native passthrough of HD signals so there are at least some additional features that need to be tested on that platform.

I did see the prototype software running on an HR10-250 at CES. It did include folders. It was a demo so I suppose some of it could have been faked...


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## K-bueno

I also saw the "demo" at CES, ...wasn't faked, I was told software was in testing and should receive it soon. I guess soon means over 6 mos!!!


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## Rich Peterson

Yeah, I was told they would start rolling it out "in about a month" so that is what I reported in AVS. Guess that was a wee bit optimistic. Nevertheless, I am quite confident they will actually release it.



> Dan collins has said in his forum wouldn't be surprised if they dont send the update for the HR10-250 since they will be swapping out soon.


This was a guess on his part, nothing more.


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## D_Doherty

Any speculation if MRV is built in to the HD code or is it an entirely different branch?


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## ronniestern

will this update ollow me to control my hi def tivo over the internet.


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## DVRaholic

ronniestern said:


> will this update ollow me to control my hi def tivo over the internet.


It wont, it will be nearly the same update as the Series2 SD receivers are getting now. It has been mentioned that it will include Native passthrough but that is not a definite. My only concern is that with the announcement with the Mpeg-4 conversion I hope D* hasn't scrapped the idea of sending the 6.2 update to the HR10-250.

They might want to keep the HR10-250 slow, so when the New HD-DVR comes out at the end of the year they will make all the improvements to thier own version in hope that many of us early adopters will not wait for the swap and just buy the new HD-DVR when they first come out.

I hope this does Not come true ... 
We Deserve the 6.2 Update for our OVERPRICED, Pathetically SLOW HD-DVR's !!!!


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## looknow12

Ohh, how I miss my Ultimate TV.


Fast
Folders
Reliable
Easier to Use

And yet over 4 years old. My parents still have their Ultimate TV and love it. They can't stand the HD Tivo they connected to an HD tv.

I'm hearing this more and more, and DTV verbally said the same thing to me. So let me confirm among all you experts. Is DTV going to swap out our HD Tivo's for a new HD DVR when MPEG-4 becomes prevalent?


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## Toeside

looknow12 said:


> Ohh, how I miss my Ultimate TV.
> 
> 
> Fast
> Folders
> Reliable
> Easier to Use
> 
> And yet over 4 years old. My parents still have their Ultimate TV and love it. They can't stand the HD Tivo they connected to an HD tv.
> 
> I'm hearing this more and more, and DTV verbally said the same thing to me. So let me confirm among all you experts. Is DTV going to swap out our HD Tivo's for a new HD DVR when MPEG-4 becomes prevalent?


I don't see HD recording in that list.... nor HD viewing. Hmmmm.


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## looknow12

Toeside said:


> I don't see HD recording in that list.... nor HD viewing. Hmmmm.


Right. If you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation 

We all can agree on one thing: There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV.


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## Scopeman

k2ue said:


> The lack of any comment of consequence on 6.x for HD box says one of two things is happening, either:
> 
> 1. Nothing at all is happening, thus nothing to say, or;
> 
> 2. There is a beta of 6.x for the HD box underway now, and anybody who knows anything is under NDA.
> 
> I wish a little bird would whisper a number in my ear. . .


or

3. After the spectacular success of the HMO petition <"come on guys, they'll just have to listen to us, they'll just have to!"> we've all come to realize that D* doesn't read these boards (or does but doesn't care), and that kicking off another thread about how it would be nice if our HR10-250 had all the features of the HDVR2 (which itself has a fraction of the possible features of a SA Tivo) is a waste of electrons.

I think a better optiono would be to go to the SA Tivo boards and start a petition over there to make Tivo add dual D* HD tuners to the SA Tivo box.


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## Scopeman

looknow12 said:


> Right. If you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation
> 
> We all can agree on one thing: There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV.


Maybe can all agree on two things:

1. There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV
2. DTV treats us accordingly


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## Scopeman

Toeside said:


> I don't see HD recording in that list.... nor HD viewing. Hmmmm.


UTV was the best DVR box at the time, just got left by the curb like betamax. Tivo is barely catching up to UTV in some ways after 4 years.

In four more years will we be looking back on these HR10-250s and saying "After four years no one has come close to the quality and features of the good old HDTivo"?

God, I hope not. I'd like to think this something better will follow this buggy v0.1b $1K P.O.S. (IMHO, YMMV)


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## TallGuy

TivoAholic said:


> Man oh Man... Its getting WORSE.
> 
> I just set up a season pass for "Hell's Kitchen" on my HR10-250
> and it took nearly *6 minutes* to complete!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I Might start using my SD-DVR80 fulltime (it has 6.2) until they
> Swap out or send the 6.2 update to the HR10-250
> 
> *CrazyFred, Dan Collins* ......
> Any Insider Info about 6.2 and the HR10-250 ???? PLEEEASEEEE!!!
> HELP


Just reading this thread for the first time - some of you know, some don't, that the TiVo computes faster if you set one or both tuners to a nonexistent channel like channel 1. Seems to work even if the currently displayed tuner only is set to channel 1 (like while you're recording 1 show on the other tuner). Recording a new show, deleting a show, navigating the guide or jerking around with SPs is almost tolerable this way.


----------



## HDinLA

Does anyone know if my old-timer Sony SAT T-60 will get the 6.2 upgrade? Can it handle it?


----------



## cobra55

diagoro said:


> I don't expect much in the way of an upgrade. I have a 50 " plasma and have never had good sd picture quality. Even the hd looks a bit 'grainy' at times (especially dark areas). Add to that the horrendous lag time. Especially with a plasma where I have to worry about burn in, the damn menus that NEVER seem to go away....
> 
> I have several ds tivos that now rock, blazing with their new upgrade. It's sad. I don't know if the hd tivo has grown slower, but I know the disparity between the two has grown considerably.
> 
> DirecTV has never taken responsibility for the issues I'm having. I'd love to switch theunit out but also have quite a bit of recorded programming there that never seems to get cleared out. I know, bit the bullet and take the hit. But from what I've read, even a switch would do little good.
> 
> In the end it seems we've been lured into buying the dh tivo before it was ready. Not only that, it seems that it was rushed to production to meet demand. End result, crappy box, crappy service....
> 
> I don;t expect an upgrade, at least not one that does any good. I believe most of the issues we're having are hardware related, ie, lack of proper memory, hard drive, hdmi interface.....
> 
> I'll leave it at that


i agree with every word you said, as for my thoghts, the worse thing i did was leave dish, but I WILL BE GOING BACK


----------



## spectecjr

DDayDawg said:


> People are ignorant about many things. Don't make the mistake of thinking that I am calling you stupid, I am not. At the risk of further straining relations let me ask you a few things.
> 
> Who? You say technicians came to your house. Who's technicians? DirecTV does not have any technicians. They have contractors who they hire to install dishes and run cable but I have not heard of them sending people to your house to check equipment. These people they contract with are cable runners/install techs and you are hitting them with a Computer Engineering question. Of course they can't help you.
> 
> Did you call DirecTV and tell them there is a problem? Did you ask them to switch out the box? (They have a very good track record on switching out boxes so I can't imagine they would refuse). You talk of staying on the phone for hours, and at times it can be trying, but I don't think that is very accurate. Sure, switching out a $1000 box takes a little bit of time to ensure that they, and you, get what is expected out of the deal. They want to be sure there isn't a easy fix they can't handle over the phone.
> 
> DirecTV has been very good about switching bad units out. Some mistakes and some hassle but nothing to wide spread or over the top. I do think it's kinda funny that you are willing to live with something that seems to not work at all instead of risking getting a working refurb unit. I don't understand it in the least but it's funny.
> 
> The overall point was that you obviously have not taken the proper steps to get your issue resolved. There are literally hundreds of people on this board who faced similar problems that you are facing and have had DirecTV take care of them. DTV isn't perfect by any means but by complaining about things they have a really good track record of fixing it takes away from the discussion of real issues that could benefit the whole 10-250 community. I'm sorry if you took offense at my use of the word ignorant, that was not my intention.


Give him a break. He's talking about an issue with some SD programming (and some HD programming, but it's more prevalent on SD) where colors are much brighter than they should be. There's something wrong with the HDMI source - not sure about component; I've not tried it - where the black level is too high on the output signal, making the entire picture much brighter than it should be.

As MPEG encoding is pretty poor in low-luminance areas, this enhances the problem with some colors, making banding and pixelisation pretty visible in those areas.

It's either a signal creation problem on the output stage, or a decoder problem. My bet would be on the decoder - I've seen similar issues on computers decoding MPEG; if you don't tweak the output just right, you get a color crunch.

Si


----------



## bigcb37

What is the most current software that should be running on the HD Tivo? I dont keep my Tivo plugged into a phoneline so I may have missed something.

I am currently on 3.1.5d


----------



## georgemoe

bigcb37 said:


> What is the most current software that should be running on the HD Tivo? I dont keep my Tivo plugged into a phoneline so I may have missed something.
> 
> I am currently on 3.1.5d


3.1.5*f*


----------



## bigcb37

georgemoe said:


> 3.1.5*f*


Oh man I am way behind...wonder if I am missing out on anything good? has their been any noticible upgrades in e or f versions of the software?


----------



## looknow12

bigcb37 said:


> Oh man I am way behind...wonder if I am missing out on anything good? has their been any noticible upgrades in e or f versions of the software?


Nothing I've noticed. These are just maintenance revisions.


----------



## AkaStp

Several of us are trying to determine if the latest "f" version is responsible for video hiccups/stutters (1-3 second freezes).


----------



## looknow12

AkaStp said:


> Several of us are trying to determine if the latest "f" version is responsible for video hiccups/stutters (1-3 second freezes).


Add me to the list because I notice that too.


----------



## Cheep

I would say "no" to that question... I had "d" for the first 3 months I owned the HDTivo, and got the hiccups regularly. Upgraded to "f", and same thing. No difference.


----------



## AkaStp

I've been using 3.1.5e for a few days now (I took previous unit back to BB as it was hiccuping with 3.1.5f) with no video hiccups during live TV or playing back previously recorded programs. The only video hiccups I'm currently getting are those that occur when changing channels (by several different means).


----------



## jcricket

AkaStp said:


> I've been using 3.1.5e for a few days now (I took previous unit back to BB as it was hiccuping with 3.1.5f) with no hiccups during live TV or playing back previously recorded programs. The only hiccups I'm currently getting are those that occur when changing channels (by several different means).


Ditto for me. I fairly regularly get the minor audio hiccup when changing channels. Not the end of the world, but a little annoying. I'm connected via the HDMI->DVI cable and RCA audio cables.


----------



## Gotchaa

All I know is that I saw and played with the 6.2 software at CES, and it did seem faster, but there wasn't much on it. I then visited Tivo spoke to a rep who indicated D* controls the release dates and the software was ready to go. So basically they are doing what or need to do before they get it out to HDTiVo users. I was expecting it 4 months ago!


----------



## DVRaholic

Gotchaa said:


> All I know is that I saw and played with the 6.2 software at CES, and it did seem faster, but there wasn't much on it. I then visited Tivo spoke to a rep who indicated D* controls the release dates and the software was ready to go. So basically they are doing what or need to do before they get it out to HDTiVo users. I was expecting it 4 months ago!


I am Hoping for an Early July release for Our HD-Tivo's.
I would think by then they all the SD-Tivo's should be finished

I just wish Dan Collins or CrazyFred could check around to get us some info. 
They both seem to have very reliable sources. :up:


----------



## kjones77

Take it for what it's worth, but I called and emailed D* and both gave the response that the HR10-250 will indeed get 6.2 but a timtable had yet been established.


----------



## PTinTexas

looknow12 said:


> Right. If you did, we wouldn't be having this conversation
> 
> We all can agree on one thing: There is no other HD DVR device on the market for DTV.


Windows Multimedia PC is looking better all the time...


----------



## lord-dogbert

I spoke to d* CRG earlier today about this. I posted a major gripe that my two "free" SD Tivo's have 6. but my $700 tivo HD doesn't. They transferred me to the Tivo specialty department who advised that they are currently Alpha testing 6.2 on the hr10's and will release 6.2 publicly once they are sure that all is well. I requested to be added to a beta list for testing 6.2 on my HR10 as well as testing "legit" HMO and MRV which D* advised is also in alpha test. I was told that I would get a call in a few weeks(yeah right) to go over the beta test rules. I'll advise more once I find more out in a few weeks.


----------



## tivoboy

Uh, 
me thinks
they were bored!


----------



## Morg111

"Few weeks"

me thinks, you have a better chance of seeing God....


----------



## richierich

Morg111 said:


> "Few weeks"
> 
> me thinks, you have a better chance of seeing God....


That's funny that you mentioned seeing God because I saw him the other day and I asked him if he knew when the 6.2 software would be released and he said that he did. I asked him when and he muttered under his breath "When Hell Freezes Over!!!!". So if we can only figure out when Hell Will Freeze Over we will have the date.


----------



## tivoboy

richierich said:


> That's funny that you mentioned seeing God because I saw him the other day and I asked him if he knew when the 6.2 software would be released and he said that he did. I asked him when and he muttered under his breath "When Hell Freezes Over!!!!". So if we can only figure out when Hell Will Freeze Over we will have the date.


yeah, well I ran into the Devil in Starbucks buying a cocoa, EXTRA HOT! Anyway, he said,

"6.2, HAH, you suckers. I am already beta testing the 1.0 version of the new D* HD PVR running Microsoft XP and built by Motorola. I am trying to get more of them because it is JUST the type of product we like for my people down here!"

 How do you THINK BG got all his money?


----------



## Waldorf

richierich said:


> That's funny that you mentioned seeing God because I saw him the other day and I asked him if he knew when the 6.2 software would be released and he said that he did. I asked him when and he muttered under his breath "When Hell Freezes Over!!!!". So if we can only figure out when Hell Will Freeze Over we will have the date.


"You will receive the 6.2 update when you least expect it...."


----------



## luebster

Waldorf said:


> "You will receive the 6.2 update when you least expect it...."


So I'll get it the day after D* sends me a new HMC in the presumed swap out?


----------



## DVRaholic

* BUMP *

I'd expect that D* should be just about finished with The 6.2 update for the SD-Tivo.
so.....
When We will get 6.2 for the HR10-250 ?!?!?!?!

Inquiring (and frustrated!) minds want to know....


----------



## richierich

Yes, but not in your lifetime.


----------



## jasch

TivoAholic said:


> I just wish Dan Collins could check around to get us some info.


Why don't you go to his board/site instead and ask there?


----------



## DVRaholic

jasch said:


> Why don't you go to his board/site instead and ask there?


Been there..
Done that...

For some Odd reason Dan has not talked openly on either forum the last few months regarding the Hr10-250 and the 6.2 update.

Maybe he doesn't want to tell us what we dont want to hear. :down:

Maybe if more members would ask him to check around and get us some info,
he might be willing to look into it. I seem to be the Only One asking him for some information.

So lets hear from you members that really want to get 6.2 on our "Painfully SLOW" HR10-250s.

Maybe then Dan can help us out.


----------



## Charles R

Since DirecTV is phasing out the HD TiVo why would they bother to upgrade the software. I understand it might be a while before everyone is switched over (a year perhaps?) but I think they will be rather busy with the conversion to MPEG4.


----------



## thumperxr69

I am afraid Carles is probably right here: Why spend extra money and resources when they could be using these on D* own upcoming boxes.

:down: 

T


----------



## STL

Charles R said:


> Since DirecTV is phasing out the HD TiVo why would they bother to upgrade the software.


DirecTV updated Micro$oft's failed UltimateTV with software AFTER they were phased out so why should this be any different? Especially since this 6.2 software is "done" and has already been seen running on a HD TiVo -- so I fully expect to get an update.



Charles R said:


> I understand it might be a while before everyone is switched over (a year perhaps?) but I think they will be rather busy with the conversion to MPEG4.


Try 2 or more years. Heck, we haven't even seen a working demo unit (at any trade shows) yet!


----------



## DVRaholic

Charles R said:


> Since DirecTV is phasing out the HD TiVo why would they bother to upgrade the software. I understand it might be a while before everyone is switched over (a year perhaps?) but I think they will be rather busy with the conversion to MPEG4.


A few months ago it was rumored that the 6.2 update for the HR10-250 was in testing and it would be released as soon as the SD-Tivos were finished upgrading.
They showed a working demo at CES on a HR10-250 and Dan collins confirmed this on these forums.

It will take at least 2 years to complete the swapout to mpeg-4. I know myself I will not swap my 2 HR10-250's until I have no choice. I paid nearly $1,000 for my first HR10-250. Its not right that the SD-Tivo's that cost $49 are getting a Upgrade to a much faster OS and us "early adopters" might not benefit from this upgrade that D* is supposedly Sitting on. Its just NOT Right!!!

I want my 6.2 and I want it NOW!! 

please...


----------



## STL

TivoAholic said:


> I want my 6.2 and I want it NOW!!


I totally agree dude!!!


----------



## richierich

georgemoe said:


> Same here VJ. We left a few season passes on the S1 TiVo and have about the same SP's as you on the HR. Skin will form on pudding before you get control back from any adjustments.


Do you eat the SKIN on the PUDDING?


----------



## richierich

I paid alot of money for both of my HR10-250s and I pay alot for connecting 2 other SD Tivos and a Samsung SIR-TS160 to D*. I want my 6.2 Update NOW!!!!!!! I think we are just as important as the SD Tivo customers and they should have had it tested by now or at least let us know what their timetable is. Why are they so uncommunicative and quiet about everything, this isn't Top Secret Data or National Security. I WANT MY 6.2 NOW!!!!


----------



## Syzygy

> _*Scopeman* said:_
> I think a better option would be to go to the SA Tivo boards and start a petition over there to make Tivo add dual D* HD tuners to the SA Tivo box.


Yeah, right. Of course, that'll never happen. Maybe we should be looking forward to HD-cable-enabled dual-tuner TiVos instead. Much more likely.

And, *I want my 6.2 upgrade yesterday*!


----------



## looknow12

STL said:


> DirecTV updated Micro$oft's failed UltimateTV with software AFTER they were phased out so why should this be any different? Especially since this 6.2 software is "done" and has already been seen running on a HD TiVo -- so I fully expect to get an update.
> 
> Try 2 or more years. Heck, we haven't even seen a working demo unit (at any trade shows) yet!


The 6.2 update has mostly probaby been written and is in an internal best test.

As far as "Micro$oft's Failed UltimateTV" the reason updates were made available is because a company like that has a professional background in releasing timely software updates. That's their business.

As far as "Failed", it didn't fail because it wasn't any good. Microsoft wasn't making enough money in their agreement with DTV and wanted to focus more on Windows Media Center. It was not a question of capability.

In fact, if Microsoft UTV was available still today, we all would have jumped ship by now, hands down. Faster, Folders, and a handful of other features not found today in Tivo.


----------



## richierich

They stated 2 months ago that they were testing the 6.2 software for the HR10-250. How long does it take to do this? They should have had it fully tested by now and in the "beta" test stage which it isn't, so I don't think that it looks as if they are going to release it and probably will not release because IMHO they want the HR10-250 to look bad so everyone will want their new D* DVR and will desperately want to swap their HR10-250 for the new DVR. I don't think they want this Tivo to look and function in a good manner because as they distance themselves from Tivo and are developing their own DVR, it is just good business sense to have the HR10-250 function poorly so people will want the new DVR with a new 2 year commitment, paying dearly for the HD Locals, that is in THEIR BEST INTERESTS and as a business I think they will just let Tivo dangle in the air hopefully dying a certain death. I heard that Tivo is going to do a unit for cable. Who knows what EVIL lurks in GOTHAM CITY? All I know is that I have seen alot of corporate stabbing even by companies owned by the same parent company, all in the self serving interests of making themselves look good while making another company look bad.


----------



## shaown

Give us our 6.2 NOW! For the SD Tivos, I believe the test was run by Tivo (for DTV) directly. If a beta was underway, while no one would violate NDA by saying what they were testing, I am sure we would heard a rumor of new release coming, or some sort of hint. Bodes badly for us...
-Shaown


----------



## Lee L

Crap, the unit at CES had the new version in what, January? The software better be darn well flawless after all this "testing".


----------



## tivoboy

I heard that 6.2 for D* receivers took more than six months?
anyone?


----------



## STL

richierich said:


> They stated 2 months ago that they were testing the 6.2 software for the HR10-250. How long does it take to do this? They should have had it fully tested by now and in the "beta" test stage which it isn't, so I don't think that it looks as if they are going to release it and probably will not release because IMHO they want the HR10-250 to look bad so everyone will want their new D* DVR and will desperately want to swap their HR10-250 for the new DVR.


Then why did the update all the SD TiVos with 6.2?


----------



## richierich

Because they had already done the testing for the SD Tivos. They don't want to put anymore money or other resources into the testing phase for the HD Tivo because they are going to replace it shortly anyway and that does not affect the SD Tivos so they went ahead and upgraded those units. Also, they were not having significant problems with the SD Tivos that they are having with the HD Tivo and they probably don't want to incur any more problems with the HD Tivo and further alienate HD D* customers so just delay it without incurring any further expense until they have the new HD DVR and can swap us out with that unit and get a 2 year commitment and additional revenue from us by charging an arm and a leg for the HD Locals which I don't need.


----------



## MichaelK

STL said:


> Then why did the update all the SD TiVos with 6.2?


Not sure I agree with richierich that they are doing it maliciously (it is a real possibility though)

But there is a big difference SD vs HD- there will be no forced swap of the SD units. But they need to get everyone off MPEG2 HD at some point so eventually they need everyone with an HD Tivo to get rid of it.


----------



## richierich

If they weren't intentionally holding off until the new HD DVR comes out then why don't we have it. The code can't be that drstically different. I was a computer programmer for 30 years and I can tell you I have tested bank software where we had to due extensive integrated system testing anytime we went with a substantial upgrade and it didn't take this long. Why don't they give us a tentative date?


----------



## kkluba

A CSR told me 3.1.5f is it for the HDTivo just a few days ago. Of course CSR's are often wrong but this is what he said.


----------



## STL

kkluba said:


> A CSR told me 3.1.5f is it for the HDTivo just a few days ago. Of course CSR's are often wrong but this is what he said.


Yup, because a couple people have reported that D* CSRs told them 6.2 is coming for HD TiVos. I suspect they just passing along rumors they've heard at the "watercooler" -- heck some of those rumors might have even originated here!


----------



## PJO1966

STL said:


> Then why did the update all the SD TiVos with 6.2?


They still haven't updated all the SD boxes. My Hughes GXCEBOT has not been updated.


----------



## STL

I didn't mean all is the context meaning every single SD DirecTiVo. You are aware that your type of DirecTiVo isn't slated for the upgrade, right?


----------



## PJO1966

STL said:


> I didn't mean all is the context meaning every single SD DirecTiVo. You are aware that your type of DirecTiVo isn't slated for the upgrade, right?


yup. still wondering why not.


----------



## STL

richierich said:


> Because they had already done the testing for the SD Tivos. They don't want to put anymore money or other resources into the testing phase for the HD Tivo because they are going to replace it shortly anyway and that does not affect the SD Tivos so they went ahead and upgraded those units. Also, they were not having significant problems with the SD Tivos that they are having with the HD Tivo and they probably don't want to incur any more problems with the HD Tivo and further alienate HD D* customers so just delay it without incurring any further expense until they have the new HD DVR and can swap us out with that unit and get a 2 year commitment and additional revenue from us by charging an arm and a leg for the HD Locals which I don't need.


I don't agree with your thinking, but I will say if DirecTV thinks they can pass on upgrading my HR10-250 to 6.2 without pissing me off (and very possibily loosing me as a customer) then they've got another thing coming!  I don't intend up swap my HR10-250 anytime soon. Furthermore, after spending $800 on this box I feel I FULLY deserve this software upgrade. I get my HD locals just fine with an antenna and right now DirecTV doesn't offer an HD package worth paying for so I have NO urge to switch to any new box -- especially if that means I have to make a two year commitment. DirecTV better get the 6.2 upgrade out by Fall or they're going to piss off a lot of early-adopter customers!

*Since we all know DirecTV had 6.2 running on a HD TiVo is January, they better stop dragging their feet and get our software push started!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## richierich

I have alot of money to bet if you care to wager that you will get it before the HD DVR comes out and some more to wage about whether you will ever see it, I know how these corporations work and Tivo spurned Rupert and he doesn't like being rejected, he is not used to it. If he can make Tivo look bad and then produce a "better" replacement box without having to pay Tivo for their patents, then he wins the game and if you know anything about this billionaires, it is this. They do not like to lose the game. They have all the money that they need. It is power that they crave. If you spurn me, I will show you. I will put a hurting on you, lower your stock price and then buy you out for PEANUTS, pennies instead of dollars. Why do you think they are being so QUIET about this release? Because it is so hard to test something that has already been tested for SD Tivos. Yes, there are differences but it shouldn't take 6 months to finish testing. Why can't they roll it out before they have complete the SD rollout because they should not have anything to do with each other. It seems obvious to me, not YOU? Unless they have discovered some major flaws with the OS and the limited CPU power, this PUPPY is MAXED OUT!!!! Also, with a very BAD WD POS hard drive that I am now sending off to Weaknees to spend $650 to backup my recordings and replace the original drive with a 400 gig Segate drive and an additional fan.


----------



## STL

If Rupert was really wanting to try and make TiVo look bad he would have never allowed the 6.2 release for the SD DirecTiVos. I would say most HD DirecTiVo owners know that 6.2 exists for the SD DirecTiVos and they're getting more pissed by the day that their $1000 HD TiVos haven't been updated yet!! So if Rupert is playing games, all he is really doing is pissing off his customers!!!

BTW, with the way the 6.2 software reconfigs the database it should do more to help the "limited CPU power" problem than exacerbate it.


----------



## richierich

There have already been problems with this release. Alot of people are now experiencing pixellation/freeze ups/etc. To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded. That is not good for me, how about you.
I was a computer programmer/consultant and anytime we restructered a database to allow for indexing or sequential processing, you had to offload the file and then change the database structure and then reload it as a different type of database such as indexed versus sequential. This database has been sequential and they are probably looking at a low level indexed database which is mostly sequential but with some indexes. The major problem is that almost everyone I have talked to who knows about computers agrees that this CPU is maxed out with a bad batch of Western Digital drives. I just ran SpinRite and it discovered 3 more bad sectors. I had 2 on a previous run. The secondary Maxtor drive had no problems nor has my other HR10-250 which has 2 300 gig Maxtor drives installed from the gitgo by Weaknees. Any questions?


----------



## STL

richierich said:


> There have already been problems with this release. Alot of people are now experiencing pixellation/freeze ups/etc. To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded. That is not good for me, how about you.
> I was a computer programmer/consultant and anytime we restructered a database to allow for indexing or sequential processing, you had to offload the file and then change the database structure and then reload it as a different type of database such as indexed versus sequential. This database has been sequential and they are probably looking at a low level indexed database which is mostly sequential but with some indexes.


I'm willing to free up _some_ space and take the chance I may loose some shows (or that they might be pixelated some during playback) to get the 6.2 upgrade, BUT they need to get it done before the new network television season starts this fall! All the more reason D* needs to get the push started SOON!!!


----------



## richierich

You need to do a search here in this forum for the other units that have received this upgrade and the problems that they have had. If you look at that track record, then maybe you know why they are delaying it for the HR10-250. Something is going on and you can bet that the higher ups in senior management know exactly what their game plan is. They definitely know about all of the problems with this unit, they know about the testing phase and whether or not they will ever release it. If they think that it will make them look good with their new DVR, then they will just let the users of HR10-250 and Tivo dangle in the wind while they hook you up with their new DVR without having to pay Tivo any fees and being able to control their own platform and destiny. This is how business works. They are looking at the long range not the short term approach to appeasing a few HD Tivo owners. We are in the vast minority so they are not worried. Why do you think there is so much silence on when they will release the 6.2 for the HR10-250? Wouldn't it be better to say it will be released August 1 or September 1? Yes, unless they don't want to release it because they want the unit to look bad so their replacement will be graciously received and welcomed. It is so obvious.


----------



## lowboy

PJO1966 said:


> They still haven't updated all the SD boxes. My Hughes GXCEBOT has not been updated.


I don't think you ever will. That is a series 1 box isn't it?


----------



## PJO1966

lowboy said:


> I don't think you ever will. That is a series 1 box isn't it?


I believe so.


----------



## GhostWolf

I don't know if any of you bother to examine the 6.2 software, bit it looks like most of the hardware support for the hdtivo is already included in that particular version.



richierich said:


> Also, with a very BAD WD POS hard drive that I am now sending off to Weaknees to spend $650 to backup my recordings and replace the original drive with a 400 gig Segate drive and an additional fan.


Wow, why would you do that? It's easy enough to do yourself for free. Weaknees just uses software thats already freely available on deal database to do it.



richierich said:


> To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded.


It isn't necessary, believe me on that as I have done far more hazardous things without a problem.


----------



## Dirac

Perhaps DirecTV could do another limited rollout of 6.2 in a particular DMA... I leave it to you all to determine which DMA I'd like to see (again).  That on top of the fact that the HR10-250 user pool is relatively quite small anyway, you'd think the trouble report load on the CSR system would be pretty low.

Also, those of us who are really impatient could upgrade via slices (again) at our own risk.


----------



## MichaelK

richierich said:


> If they weren't intentionally holding off until the new HD DVR comes out then why don't we have it. The code can't be that drstically different. I was a computer programmer for 30 years and I can tell you I have tested bank software where we had to due extensive integrated system testing anytime we went with a substantial upgrade and it didn't take this long. Why don't they give us a tentative date?


Possible one word answer

Incompetence.


----------



## GhostWolf

MichaelK said:


> Possible one word answer
> 
> Incompetence.


You can lay that on tivo; directv has nothing to do with the software development.


----------



## scooby2

GhostWolf said:


> You can lay that on tivo; directv has nothing to do with the software development.


Tivo claims DirecTV has the software from them and it is ready to roll. Who to believe.


----------



## MichaelK

GhostWolf said:


> You can lay that on tivo; directv has nothing to do with the software development.


i woudldn't at all.

Directv calls the shots. They tell TiVo to junp and Tivo says how high. IF DirecTV doesnt tell TiVo to write the code, test the code, or deploy the code then they dont.

Tivo had 4.0 ready the same time it rolled to the stand alones yet it took years before Directv got the SD boxes off 3.x.

For all we know 6.x works on the HD boxes but TiVo just hit it better in the SD disto this time around.


----------



## GhostWolf

MichaelK said:


> i woudldn't at all.
> 
> Directv calls the shots. They tell TiVo to junp and Tivo says how high. IF DirecTV doesnt tell TiVo to write the code, test the code, or deploy the code then they dont.
> 
> Tivo had 4.0 ready the same time it rolled to the stand alones yet it took years before Directv got the SD boxes off 3.x.


That brings a question to mind...why didn't tivo bring the speed enhancements of the 6.2 software to the 7.1b software?



MichaelK said:


> For all we know 6.x works on the HD boxes but TiVo just hit it better in the SD disto this time around.


I will actually be making an attempt at that in a few weeks. I already know that it wont work right out of the box due to a critical binary missing, but I can obtain that as well as make a few other adjustments for compatibility. I'll post my findings to deal database if I do.


----------



## MichaelK

GhostWolf said:


> That brings a question to mind...why didn't tivo bring the speed enhancements of the 6.2 software to the 7.1b software?
> 
> ....


probably because due to Directv's stupid decisions 6.x came out AFTER 7.x

(and serious quesiton- do we KNOW that the 7.x database wasnt redone like 6.x's?)


----------



## richierich

GhostWolf said:


> I don't know if any of you bother to examine the 6.2 software, bit it looks like most of the hardware support for the hdtivo is already included in that particular version.
> 
> Wow, why would you do that? It's easy enough to do yourself for free. Weaknees just uses software thats already freely available on deal database to do it.
> 
> It isn't necessary, believe me on that as I have done far more hazardous things without a problem.


You have to define the database and the indexes before you load data or data can be stored because that tells how and where the data will be stored. If you store in in a dynamic VSAM type database with indexes for dynamic acquisition via keys stored by index, then that has to be defined beforehand. If you change that structure then you have to offload the data, redefine it and

I wish someone could explain to me on a high level basis how to do this because I definitely need to learn how. What are the processes that you have to go thru. How do you back it up? You have to have some type of hard drive to back it up to? How large? How do you re-image the drive with Tivo software? It seems alot more complicated to me but if someone wants to tutor me I would be more than willing to pay them for my services as money is not my biggest problem.


----------



## GhostWolf

MichaelK said:


> probably because due to Directv's stupid decisions 6.x came out AFTER 7.x


AFAIK the 6.1 software came with the Directv-R10, with all of the speed enhancements intact (the hardware of the r10 is inferior to that of the regular series 2 units.) 7.x didn't come til later.



MichaelK said:


> (and serious quesiton- do we KNOW that the 7.x database wasnt redone like 6.x's?)


It's an issue of software optimizations rather than database changes. As far as I can tell, the change in the structure of the database is pretty minimal, except that of the guide data which is now indexed different, and the strain on the hard disk is heavily reduced.



richierich said:


> You have to define the database and the indexes before you load data or data can be stored because that tells how and where the data will be stored. If you store in in a dynamic VSAM type database with indexes for dynamic acquisition via keys stored by index, then that has to be defined beforehand. If you change that structure then you have to offload the data, redefine it and


So?



MichaelK said:


> I wish someone could explain to me on a high level basis how to do this because I definitely need to learn how. What are the processes that you have to go thru. How do you back it up? You have to have some type of hard drive to back it up to? How large? How do you re-image the drive with Tivo software? It seems alot more complicated to me but if someone wants to tutor me I would be more than willing to pay them for my services as money is not my biggest problem.


You have a few routes you can take. In your specific case, what I would do is put your tivo hard drive in a linux PC and backup the DC key located in /State/Media using tridges tools. Then I would do a TMF export of all of your tystreams in their encrypted form. You then obtain an image for an hr10-250 (either buy it from ptvupgrade for $20 or download it on emule) and restore this to a hard drive. Replace your old DC key in /State/Media, hack the tivo to enable you to run arbitrary software, get a usb ethernet cable and set it up, then use mfs_ftp to import the encrypted tystreams. That is pretty much it, you can find these steps in more detail on deal database.


----------



## MichaelK

GhostWolf said:


> AFAIK the 6.1 software came with the Directv-R10, with all of the speed enhancements intact (the hardware of the r10 is inferior to that of the regular series 2 units.) 7.x didn't come til later.
> ...


i forgot that.

I cant figure out what the stupid relationship between directv and tivo is- all i know is it's not healthy.


----------



## Onazuka

richierich said:


> ...here have already been problems with this release. Alot of people are now experiencing pixellation/freeze ups/etc. To restructure any database without doing a backup and then downloading the data to a conversion program, you would have to do a Clear and Delete which erases everything that you have recorded. That is not good for me, how about you.
> I was a computer programmer/consultant and anytime we restructered a database to allow for indexing or sequential processing, you had to offload the file and then change the database structure and then reload it as a different type of database such as indexed versus sequential. This database has been sequential and they are probably looking at a low level indexed database which is mostly sequential but with some indexes. The major problem is that almost everyone I have talked to who knows about computers agrees that this CPU is maxed out with a bad batch of Western Digital drives. I just ran SpinRite and it discovered 3 more bad sectors. I had 2 on a previous run. The secondary Maxtor drive had no problems nor has my other HR10-250 which has 2 300 gig Maxtor drives installed from the gitgo by Weaknees. Any questions?


I can understand hardware problems, especially a hard disk slowing the TiVO down, but the software and database is really not a hard engineering task. You may have 100 shows stored at one time and that's a miniscule database. They guide is slow and only 2 weeks of show data is also a very small database. Heck, were not talking about an IRS database or something. The user interface is also not that extensive either. Basically, the only technical challenge for the software is the hardware drivers and keeping data streaming well. The rest of the software, including the database is not very difficult. Once you get the drivers done and your real time architecture, adding other features like folders should be very easy and not require much testing. And there is no excuse for having such a slow guide.


----------



## GhostWolf

MichaelK said:


> i forgot that.
> 
> I cant figure out what the stupid relationship between directv and tivo is- all i know is it's not healthy.


Well, I don't quite know why this forum looks at the tivo developers as if they are gods, but I have seen what they do first hand and granted some of the ideas are good, their delivery is quite poor and there are a lot of things that they do very badly when writing their software. You guys probably don't look under the hood of the tivos, so the only screwups you have seen are along the lines of when they screwed up the static ad logo so that it always appeared, or just recently how they screwed up tivotogo. These things are only the tip of the iceburg.

It looks more to me like directv quality control demanded that the software be fixed so that it is more responsive, because prior to this these units were behaving as if they were way outdated first generation hardware. Tivo went ahead and made these changes, but they didn't feel like bringing it to the standalone units, probably out of sheer laziness.


----------



## richierich

So when are we going to get it?


----------



## gfoulks

Time to bring this thread back to life...... Any new news on when we might be getting this update? I just setup my HR10 last night and am already missing the 6.2 upgrade that I have on my DSR 704!


----------



## lord-dogbert

Just called direct and no one there knows anything about 6.2 now. The rep thinks that the previous reps were blowing sunshine. I complained to the fact that my BMX 7 series has less capability than my chevy, this after she failed to understand the basic concept that the HD tivo COSTS a whole lot more than the SD tivo.


----------



## richierich

I've told you guys time and time again that you will get 6.2 when HELL FREEZES OVER so keep watching the Weather Channel and when you see that hell has frozen over go to your HR10-250 and pull up the system info and there you will see 6.2. Probably with alot of bugs still in it.


----------



## markb

What's the zip code for Hell?


----------



## sjberra

markb said:


> What's the zip code for Hell?


00666


----------



## n8dagr8

> What's the zip code for Hell?





sjberra said:


> 00666


Touche!


----------



## photokev

Now that the price of the HD units has dropped to $500 I would like to dump my SD Tivo and get a second HD Tivo. The only thing that is stopping me is that I do not want to give up the folder sorting feature currently on my SD Tivo. Is there any hack that I can do myself to make it show the folders on my HD unit?


----------



## DVRaholic

photokev said:


> Now that the price of the HD units has dropped to $500 I would like to dump my SD Tivo and get a second HD Tivo. The only thing that is stopping me is that I do not want to give up the folder sorting feature currently on my SD Tivo. Is there any hack that I can do myself to make it show the folders on my HD unit?


$500 ?? Where have you been latley 
Check out this HOT thread
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=254292

Back on Topic: I now think we will NEVER see the 6.2 Update,  with more and more people now getting the HR10-250 there is More people D* can possibly piss off if there is a Bug in the 6.2 HD version. On the other hand now since they have become much cheaper they wouldnt be messing around with $1,000 units anymore  So who knows ??


----------



## Morg111

If I were a scumbag (aka Directv) I would not release this software as the next generation of their HD DVR with MPEG-4 and a 1000 foot wide dish with 500,000 LNB's (frustrated exaggeration) is due to come out in the next six months. If they upgrade our boxes now, we would be less willing to upgrade to a substandard version of DVR. Besides the addition of MPEG-4 and extra LNB's for more HD content their DVR most likely will be no match for a Tivo especially if it is a 6.2 upgraded tivo. 

-M


----------



## gfoulks

I don't plan to switch out my HR10-250 until I absolutely have to. I could care less about D*'s HD locals over sat. I'll bet they won't even come close to the quality signal I get OTA. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way so it would behoove D* to push the software update out as soon as possible. Why piss off a large segment of your customer base?


----------



## radamo

Has there been any update from D* on this officially? 
RA


----------



## lord-dogbert

Depending on what Direct wants us to do with our beloved Tivo's after the swap i'm sure that a hack will be out to steam video over the network or load codecs for divx so that our "old" tivo's can become media servers.

I so wish I could program....


----------



## markb

Maybe it's time for a coordinated letter writing campaign. If the people posting on this forum all wrote in to DirecTV to complain at the same time, it would at least get their attention.


----------



## lord-dogbert

A concerted effort by folks here and the "other place" would hit Direct hard in the face. I think that it would be too difficult to stage a write in but what about an online petition site to Direct like http://www.thepetitionsite.com/?ltl=1124909852 or http://www.ipetitions.com/index.html. Found these in a google search. Anyone know any other petition sites. Once we reach some goal then one of us would contact Direct management and point them to the petitions. I'll start it if others will act with me. I don't work too far from Direct's office in El Segundo, it would be cool to serve the petitions in person Viva la resistance.


----------



## gfoulks

get er done!


----------



## DVRaholic

lord-dogbert said:


> Once we reach some goal then one of us would contact Direct management and point them to the petitions. I'll start it if others will act with me. I don't work too far from Direct's office in El Segundo, it would be cool to serve the petitions in person Viva la resistance.


Go For IT!! You can Count me in, 

I Want my 6.2 and I want it NOW!!!!


----------



## markb

lord-dogbert said:


> A concerted effort by folks here and the "other place" would hit Direct hard in the face. I think that it would be too difficult to stage a write in but what about an online petition site to Direct like http://www.thepetitionsite.com/?ltl=1124909852 or http://www.ipetitions.com/index.html.


The thing is, I think 100 letters would be taken more seriously than 1000 signatures on an online petition. But it wouldn't hurt to do both. Get as many people to sign the online petition as possible, and also get people to send letters, timed to coincide with the delivery of the petition. We could even hit them with emails and phone calls at the same time.

Who knows if this would actually get them to release 6.2 any sooner, but at least it would get the message across.


----------



## lord-dogbert

Alrighty, I'll check out the petition sites and decide on one and post the link. I then need EVERYONE that reads this to spread the word here and everywhere else to go sign the petition and write your letter. We'll figure out how to time the letters and delivery of the petition.

I know that Direct service reps read this and the other forums as well so make note, we are coming and we want our bloody 6.2!


----------



## lord-dogbert

OK boys and girls,

Cry havoc, and let lose the dogs of war....

Here's the URL for the petition: 
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

Tell all to go and sign it. I'll create another thread on this forum and the other place. Once we get closer then we'll have to figure out how to coordinate calls, emails and letters all for that day.


----------



## markb

lord-dogbert said:


> Tell all to go and sign it. I'll create another thread on this forum and the other place. Once we get closer then we'll have to figure out how to coordinate calls, emails and letters all for that day.


Just created a thread here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=256219

I'll add your link.


----------



## lord-dogbert

Coolness, going over to the other place now.


----------



## PJO1966

I signed the petition. I also went to planetfeedback.com I had used them in the past to complain to Verizon Wireless. The complaint went to someone in the CEO's office and I got a quick response. Unfortunately the site is down at the moment "while it gears up for an exciting re-launch". I'll keep checking back and will post when it's up again. That would be a good backup method to signing the petition.


----------



## lord-dogbert

Good, spread the word everywhere. In the past 45 minutes 18 people have signed. Not too bad of a start.


----------



## lord-dogbert

Just sent an email to an editor at CNet, they've covered Tivo issues before, maybe they'll bite on this story.


----------



## pkscout

Hmmm. I seem to recall signing an online petition for DirecTV to add HMO to the DirecTiVo. Still waiting to see how that one turns out...


----------



## lord-dogbert

I think that this issue will be quicker and easier to resolve than HMO. HMO has legal implications for Direct when dealing with media rights and the fact that the programming is stored digitally and we all know how hollywood hates digital.


----------



## Cwaters

grain of salt warning:
After two emails I got the "there is an upgrade coming but there's no time-frame yet" again today.
That is all, go on about you day now.
CW


----------



## lord-dogbert

165 so far. Keep telling people. 
I was thinking about letting this run for a few weeks and then after it goes idle for some time then closing down, printing it out and driving to El Segundo. Anyone want to come along


----------



## looknow12

Bump: Everyone should be aware of this thread. Your TIVO sucks without the 6.2 update.

Improved performance with Guides and selection of record ...Please Wait icon

Grouping: Keeps season passes together so it's easy to browse them.


----------



## BillyT2002

lord-dogbert - I'll go along for the ride. Pick me up in Waterville, Maine.


----------



## lord-dogbert

BillyT2002 said:


> lord-dogbert - I'll go along for the ride. Pick me up in Waterville, Maine.


Alrighty, will noon do


----------



## lord-dogbert

We're at 208 signatures, not bad for a 4 day old petition. This coming week I plan on finding someone besides the receptionist to meet with at corporate. I think perhaps Public Relations might be a good place to start, maybe Tanya Memme will be there(the screamer channel girl). 

Has anyone had contacts at El Segundo before, maybe from the HMO petition. How many sigs did the HMO petition get? 

How do we get this thread or a dedicated thread some priority in the forum so that others may see what we're trying to do here.


----------



## richierich

Lord Doggie-Doggie Style, pick me up in Atlanta, Ga., I am ready to go!!!


----------



## Worth

Signed, from another frustrated HR10-250 owner.


----------



## Gotchaa

Was told that version 6.2 software upgrade was not coming by HD Advanced technical support CSR. Boxes would be upgraded for free to MPEG 4 with a 2 year commitment or at a cost around $200-$300 otherwise. Seems like the upgrade is going to cost D* a bundle with new dishes, installation, and boxes. I've given up on 6.2. I've just seen a friends stand alone box with software version 7, has folders, media streaming support..and it's hell-a-fast. I am so bummed out.


----------



## AstroDad

signed


----------



## rugby

Gotchaa said:


> Was told that version 6.2 software upgrade was not coming by HD Advanced technical support CSR. Boxes would be upgraded for free to MPEG 4 with a 2 year commitment or at a cost around $200-$300 otherwise. Seems like the upgrade is going to cost D* a bundle with new dishes, installation, and boxes. I've given up on 6.2. I've just seen a friends stand alone box with software version 7, has folders, media streaming support..and it's hell-a-fast. I am so bummed out.


Wait, so if we just signed a 2-year commitment for the HR10-250 we have to sign ANOTHER 2-year commitment? Or pay $200-$300? Sounds like crap to me.


----------



## jaobrien6

The additional 2 year commitment won't raise your commitment to 4 years (by adding together), it'll just restart your 2 year clock. Not that big of a deal to me.

John


----------



## markb

Gotchaa said:


> Was told that version 6.2 software upgrade was not coming by HD Advanced technical support CSR.


Others have reported that they were told 6.2 _is_ coming, so all this really means is that DirecTV CSRs don't know.


----------



## xanotos

I'm getting install this Saturday with (finally) the HD TIVO. Is here any chance that my box with have 6.2 installed already? I'm crossing my fingers. I happy with 6.2 on my current box.


----------



## mike1977

No, there currently is no 6.2 or similar update for the HD TIVO that will make it faster or have folders (the best you can do is use the SORT code).


----------



## TallGuy

Folders would be nice, but if there WAS a 6.2 for HD-TiVo, it would probably break so many other things and introduce new bugs, that we'd be clamoring to go back to today's version.

I just sort my list alphabetically and use Channel Up/Down to jump around the list 8 shows at a time.


----------



## gcawad

Done


----------



## DVRaholic

*Bump*

Lord-Dogbert, How many signatures now ??


----------



## drewcipher

BillyT2002 said:


> lord-dogbert - I'll go along for the ride. Pick me up in Waterville, Maine.


Been a long time since I was there. Still have You know whose pub, Big G's, Bonnie's? Does Joe Carter still own the beer store? Wet t-shirt night at the Bob? God, I love that town.

As to my 3 HR10-250s. I want the update, but I don't want the bugs. If we rush it, we might be sorry. I hope they do it and do it right


----------



## tivoboy

for one, I don't think there is EVER going to be an update. Lately, watching a bunch more HD, using the hr10-250, and REALLY wish it had the snap that the older HDVR3's has, with the latest update. DANG that thing is fast.

at this point, I would PAY another 50$ for the update. Wonder if we could get TIVO to work on it first.


----------



## kbohip

drewcipher said:


> Been a long time since I was there. Still have You know whose pub, Big G's, Bonnie's? Does Joe Carter still own the beer store? Wet t-shirt night at the Bob? God, I love that town.
> 
> As to my 3 HR10-250s. I want the update, but I don't want the bugs. If we rush it, we might be sorry. I hope they do it and do it right


I want the new software so bad I'll even take the bugs! As long as the thing doesn't start crashing and missing recordings ie. Dish DVR then I'm fine.


----------



## lord-dogbert

TivoAholic said:


> *Bump*
> 
> Lord-Dogbert, How many signatures now ??


338 and counting. I asked pvrblog to add the petition site, haven't checked to see if it's there.


----------



## Syzygy

My HD-TiVo is getting slower and slower, and I've rebooted it (because of bugs creeping in) several times in the last month.

I can't stand waiting for the system to respond! Where the he!! is that software update?

*Where do I go to add my fargin name to the fargin petition?*


----------



## Montana Man

Signed. I hate this slow as molasses $900 piece of technology. My $100 tivo was so much faster. DAMN YOU HD FOOTBALL!


----------



## tivoboy

remember the tricks people.

when watching something, on TIVO recorded, try to make sure the unit is on a SD station, will speed up the processes. 

When watching football live, (probably a few minutes or more delayed.) try to make sure the OTHER tuner is on SD station.

speeds up the whole process.


----------



## Ba Boop

Why does anyone think a software update will speed things up? It won't. If you notice it responds faster when both tuners are on SD. It's the processor not the software along with any HD failure. So don't hold your breath...


----------



## SleepyBob

Ba Boop said:


> Why does anyone think a software update will speed things up? It won't. If you notice it responds faster when both tuners are on SD. It's the processor not the software along with any HD failure. So don't hold your breath...


Because a software update on the SD TiVos sped things up when they finally migrated off the old 3.1/4.0 platform. And since the HD TiVo software is based off that same old 3.1 code base, it stands to reason that it has many of the same inefficiencies that previously existed in the old SD TiVo software.

Switching tuners is a minor kludge that provides a minor improvement. There is clearly a lot of improvement that can be gained from a software rewrite that is not processor dependent.


----------



## richierich

The 6.2 update includes a restructuring of the database which aids in speeding up the data retrieval process and other I/O processes.


----------



## PRMan

After reading about how TiVo's new Macrovision license requires them to let your content provider delete programs off YOUR TiVo, I think I am about to pull the phone cord instead.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=259169&page=1&pp=30&highlight=macrovision

No new updates, please. Can I UN-sign the petition? I'm halfway serious.


----------



## Sixto

When I want to speed things up I just tune to a channel that doesn't exist like channel 0 on one tuner and channel 8 on the other. Then nothing gets buffered at all on either tuner and the machine flies! Or just set one tuner to channel 0 and the other tuner will fly.


----------



## MichaelK

Sixto said:


> When I want to speed things up I just tune to a channel that doesn't exist like channel 0 on one tuner and channel 8 on the other. Then nothing gets buffered at all on either tuner and the machine flies! Or just set one tuner to channel 0 and the other tuner will fly.


beat me to it!

great point- tuning to sd helps, tuning to the music channels is better, tuning to a channel that doesn't exist is best.


----------



## rodneyb

> I just sort my list alphabetically and use Channel Up/Down to jump around the list 8 shows at a time


How do I sort alphabetically on an HD Tivo?

edit: nevermind...found it in a search:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=259736&highlight=sort

That makes the box a bit more useable for sure. Folders would be bliss, but this helps a great deal.


----------



## looknow12

I had to dust of this thread before entering. I guess everyone has given up on this considering how old the last activity is.

Is the version 6.x update hopeless?


----------



## photokev

This is really starting to piss me off! Where's our freakin upgrade? Many of us paid a $1000 premium for an HD unit and now they're just screwing us.


----------



## sdchrgrboy

I wrote to them last week and here is D* response:

Thank you for writing. We are sorry to hear of your frustration regarding your HR10-250 receiver. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs. The HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get this upgrade, but the date has yet to be determined. To find out more, please visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.

In addition, I understand your concern about how our transition to MPEG-4 transmission will affect any MPEG-2 equipment you may have. Let me reassure you that most customers will be able to use their MPEG-2 equipment for quite some time.

At this time, our current HD programming will continue to be broadcast using the MPEG-2 standard; MPEG-4 technology will be used only to provide local HD programming in select cities. (Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Houston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Tampa and Washington, D.C. are expected to launch this year, with more to be added throughout the next year.) 

Once local HD programming launches in your city, you will be eligible for an MPEG-4-capable receiver replacement. If you want to replace your HD DVR, you may need to wait a bit longer. Our new MPEG-4-capable DIRECTV HD DVR is expected to be available sometime in 2006.

If you have any additional concerns or questions regarding these issues, you also have the option of contacting our Customer Service Department at (800) 531-5000. One of our Customer Service Representatives will be able to assist you further.

Thanks again for writing. More details will be available when we launch the local HD service in your area, so watch your local TV, radio or mailbox for upcoming announcements or visit DIRECTV.com/HD for the latest news.


----------



## Dirac

Nothing new. The web page hasn't been updated with new HR10-250 info either. Frustrating.


----------



## Adam1115

Are you guys just worked up over this Folders and a little better speed?

MRV won't work with it, unless you had to HR10's...


----------



## diagoro

I get the feeling that the 'pending' conversion to mpg4 boxes negates their obligation, at least in their minds. Besides, the boxes aren't 'broken'....only slow, etc.

All from their point of view of course. 

I've been asking about this for months, having called customer service, etc. at least once a month for other issues. No one has ever admitted knowing anything about an upgrade. One rep promised to check it out but I never heard anything back. I just asked again today with the same old 'I've never heard of any upgrades'.

I'm pissed as well, considering all the issues with the unit.


----------



## jhimmel

Adam1115 said:


> Are you guys just worked up over this Folders and a little better speed?


Yes. Actually, I couldn't care less about the folders. The performance increase is what I am after. Some tasks, like SP sorting, got quite a significant gain in performance on my HDVR2s.


----------



## GalenMD

I used my wife's HDVR2 for the first time in awhile yesterday. I was shocked by how fast it worked. I am tired of waiting several minutes just to record a show that is already playing. This becomes even longer for shows selected at another time. Yes, I know the little tricks, like tuning one of the tuners to a non-existant channel, to get the unit to respond faster, but who wants to do that?

Honestly, I think I could slip in a VHS tape and program the player to record the time I want faster than the HR10-250. Of course, that would be if I even owned a VCR anymore...


----------



## Juppers

I'm waiting for folders, faster response, and hopefully native passthru.


----------



## Dmtalon

Juppers said:


> I'm waiting for folders, faster response, and hopefully native passthru.


I miss folders most of all... My season passes are set and I don't usually watch a lot of live TV anyway, just what's been recorded, so I don't do a lot of "oh... Record this" stuff. I just turn the TV on, and go to "Now Playing"

Folders would make *my* experience much better. I've got an SA2 Tivo so I do *know* what I'm mising


----------



## Kevin L

Adam1115 said:


> Are you guys just worked up over this Folders and a little better speed?
> 
> MRV won't work with it, unless you had to HR10's...


Uhhh... yes.

I have multiple drives in my three HR10s and the speed is pathetically slow. Plus, with dozens of shows in NP, folders are handy. The speed increase on my upgraded HDVR2s was noticeable, and I'm hoping for the same gain on my HR10s.


----------



## k2ue

Native passthru seems to be better in theory than in reality -- I've had two other HD receivers that offer it, and I found the delay time as the TV figures out what the new sweep rate is and adjusts to it is very annoying. I'm also not so sure it does any good: recording HDNET 1080i test patterns and playing back in various modes (on my 720p Samsung) I find that resolution is best, and balanced V vs. H, when played back at 720p, not 1080i (to be converted in the TV), and SD broadcasts look better at 720p than 480i or 480p. So Native is enthralling in concept -- but unncessary in reality.

What I _would_ like to see is a letterbox zoom, so that the increasingly frequent letterboxed movies on SD channels can be expanded to fill a 16:9 screen (without distortion).


----------



## AbMagFab

k2ue said:


> Native passthru seems to be better in theory than in reality -- I've had two other HD receivers that offer it, and I found the delay time as the TV figures out what the new sweep rate is and adjusts to it is very annoying. I'm also not so sure it does any good: recording HDNET 1080i test patterns and playing back in various modes (on my 720p Samsung) I find that resolution is best, and balanced V vs. H, when played back at 720p, not 1080i (to be converted in the TV), and SD broadcasts look better at 720p than 480i or 480p. So Native is enthralling in concept -- but unncessary in reality.
> 
> What I _would_ like to see is a letterbox zoom, so that the increasingly frequent letterboxed movies on SD channels can be expanded to fill a 16:9 screen (without distortion).


Letterbox Zoom is a TV function, not a receiver function. My HD TV allows me to zoom an HD picture, without distortion, so I can watch an SD letterboxed show with the screen filled at 1080i (or 720p).

(One of my HD TV's lets me do this. The other one doesn't, so I either suffer through the picture box, or switch to 480i so I can use the Zoom on the TV.)


----------



## k2ue

AbMagFab said:


> Letterbox Zoom is a TV function, not a receiver function.


Gee, is that being spoken _ex cathedra_ ?


----------



## AbMagFab

Every 16x9 TV has a basic Zoom function, which is what the OP is talking about. It's a TV function as a result, _de facto_.

Some older 16x9 HD TV's wouldn't let you do Zoom on a 720p or 1080i signal. However all newer HD TV's (that I've seen) have that restriction removed.


----------



## k2ue

AbMagFab said:


> Every 16x9 TV has a basic Zoom function, which is what the OP is talking about. It's a TV function as a result, _de facto_.
> 
> Some older 16x9 HD TV's wouldn't let you do Zoom on a 720p or 1080i signal. However all newer HD TV's (that I've seen) have that restriction removed.


Samsung has a big piece of the HD market, no? Samsungs don't do zoom when using the DVI or HDMI inputs, only component. I'd be surprised if they were alone in that limitation. Or do real videophiles only use component?


----------



## RMSko

k2ue said:


> Samsung has a big piece of the HD market, no? Samsungs don't do zoom when using the DVI or HDMI inputs, only component. I'd be surprised if they were alone in that limitation. Or do real videophiles only use component?


I can confirm that this statement is correct, at least as far as Samsung's DLP sets go. With HDMI you only have two choices, 16x9 or 4x3, there is no zoom option.


----------



## Eben

For comparison, I have a Toshiba 57h84 rptv. It is not a plasma, LCD, or DLP but its native res is 1080i (540p). It will accept and display any 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i signal (converting it, if necessary, to 1080i (or 540p)). With my LG 4200a or H10-250, connected via HDMI, if the output is set to 1080i I can use the TV's zoom function (it also works on 480i and p, but not 720p).


----------



## tony17

RMSko said:


> I can confirm that this statement is correct, at least as far as Samsung's DLP sets go. With HDMI you only have two choices, 16x9 or 4x3, there is no zoom option.


That is definitely only a function of the TV however. MY NEC plasma will Zoom while using the HDMI/DVI. I believe there are other brands that will zoom as well.


----------



## tucsonbill

k2ue said:


> So Native is enthralling in concept -- but unncessary in reality.


 Not necessary, but would still be useful for some of us. I modulate my two HR10-250s and two Pansasonic Showstoppers onto four uhf channels that I distribute throughout the house. To view the HD boxes in one of the bedrooms or the sewing room we obviously have to switch the output to 480i. My wife has learned to push the up arrow twice if she has no picture, and it isn't that big a deal, but since all of her daytime DTV viewing is 480i it would simplify things.


k2ue said:


> What I _would_ like to see is a letterbox zoom, so that the increasingly frequent letterboxed movies on SD channels can be expanded to fill a 16:9 screen (without distortion).


 I'd also like this even more than native passthrough. Yeah, I read all the other responses about this being a function of the TV, but unfortunately it's not a function available on my 4:3 ntsc sets in the rooms served by my internal cable system. Since all of the local digital stations broadcast their 4:3 daytime content as pillarboxed 16:9, our only options currently are to watch a letterboxed pillarboxed image in the center of the screen or a squeezed pillarboxed image.


----------



## lord-dogbert

I've been derilect in my duties to deliver the petition to El Segundo for personal reasons. I'm back on the air now and plan to go next week.


----------



## DVRaholic

lord-dogbert, How many signatures do you have ??


----------



## lord-dogbert

465 unhappy customers.


----------



## pkscout

lord-dogbert said:


> 465 unhappy customers.


drip, drip, drip.

That's the sound of 465 customers being a drop in the bucket for DirecTV. As much as I would like 6.2 for my HDTiVo, I have become resigned to the fact that it will never happen, and 465 (and frankly ten times that many) just isn't going to make a difference.

Really, unless you have a black robot car that is bullet proof, one person really can't make a difference.


----------



## Iwanthd

Here's one person who made a difference.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/02/rosa.parks.ap/index.html


----------



## AstroDad

Iwanthd said:


> Here's one person who made a difference.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/02/rosa.parks.ap/index.html


Please don't insult the memory of Rosa Parks by comparing what she did to *****ing about an update on our toys


----------



## Iwanthd

It was not intended as an insult. I believe that Rosa Parks is one of our greatest American citizens. Sorry if I offended.


----------



## jmathey

Perhaps we should organize a calling campaign. I know it's usually a waste of time, but it might nudge them in the right direction if they get 50 - 100 calls per day requesting 6.2. I just purchased the HR10-250, I had the Philips (NON-HD) that has has the upgrade for a couple of months. I can't believe how painstakingly slow the new one is. I don't care too much about the folders, and the sort I can use the hidden s0RT function, it's the damn speed!!!


----------



## jmathey

lord-dogbert said:


> I've been derilect in my duties to deliver the petition to El Segundo for personal reasons. I'm back on the air now and plan to go next week.


Where is the petition, I'm happy to sign, and probably can pass the link to 5 or 10 of my fellow disgrunted Tivo'ers.


----------



## ddruker

So is the basic assumption now that this is just totally dead and we will never see 6.2 ? Does anyone know if either Tivo or DTV are working on it ?


----------



## lord-dogbert

jmathey said:


> Where is the petition, I'm happy to sign, and probably can pass the link to 5 or 10 of my fellow disgrunted Tivo'ers.


Hi,

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

I am waiting on someone from public relations to call me back today or tomorrow to arrange to personally deliver the petitions next week. Please sign quickly as next week is it.


----------



## broken back

#1 What does the cost of the 6.2 upgrade cost *D* per machine (HR10-250)
#2 If the cost per person was small, would you be willing to pay *D* for the download.


----------



## luebster

The cost per machine is negligible for the actual upgrade. However, they would have to pay the programmers to actually code the upgrade.

Probably not worth it at this point, since its replacement is 6-12 months away.


----------



## lord-dogbert

We already paid in a sense. 

One of my questions to Donna Underhill at Directv Public Relations is, if Directv wont release it then give us the source and what is broken to keep it from being released and let some of the coding geniuses here and in the other forums at it. I'm sure that if DTV can't figure it out then we can.


----------



## richierich

I predicted several months ago that they would never release it because they do not want it to compete with their new DVR coming out in the next 6 months. Hello folks, this is a corporation with their OWN AGENDA for making PROFITS and if they can keep people dissastified with the HR10-250 then you will welcome their new MPEG-4 DVR and will gladly jump ship from your current unit. The code for the most part is in place and just needs to be tweeked for this particular unit. I was a programmer for 30 years and it is not that difficult to do. Therefore, don't you guys see what is going on. Look at my past posts. I predicted that you will NEVER see the new release.


----------



## aphex187

Maybe this has already been tried but is there a huge difference between what runs on our HR10-250's now and the 3.x versions that were on the other DTivos? Is there a chance of reverse engineering, etc?


----------



## pkscout

richierich said:


> I predicted several months ago that they would never release it because they do not want it to compete with their new DVR coming out in the next 6 months. Hello folks, this is a corporation with their OWN AGENDA for making PROFITS and if they can keep people dissastified with the HR10-250 then you will welcome their new MPEG-4 DVR and will gladly jump ship from your current unit. The code for the most part is in place and just needs to be tweeked for this particular unit. I was a programmer for 30 years and it is not that difficult to do. Therefore, don't you guys see what is going on. Look at my past posts. I predicted that you will NEVER see the new release.


In that sense I think DirecTV's strategy will work. I will be jumping ship from the HD-TiVo, but since I'm going to have to move to a new platform I've decided to look very seriously at building my own MythTV box. Yes, the hardware will cost me a bit more than the HDTiVo did to get 2 ATSC and 2 analog cable tuners. Yes, it will be analog cable instead of digital satellite (or digital cable for that matter). But if I'm going to be forced off TiVo I may as well look at all the options.


----------



## cheer

aphex187 said:


> Maybe this has already been tried but is there a huge difference between what runs on our HR10-250's now and the 3.x versions that were on the other DTivos? Is there a chance of reverse engineering, etc?


Anythings possible, but AFAIK none of the SD DTivo versions (3.1.1x, 6.x, etc.) have any of the HD code in them.


----------



## Adam1115

So I watch ESPNHD, HBOHD, SHOHD, CBS and FOX in HD. My viewing is about 5 hours a week in HD. Since 6.2 won't do much other than speed the thing up I can live without it. 

I really wish they'd spend the effort on getting the HR20 on the street, swap me out and get the Denver HD-LIL up instead of wasting time on 6.2 on an EOL receiver..


----------



## looknow12

richierich said:


> I predicted several months ago that they would never release it because they do not want it to compete with their new DVR coming out in the next 6 months. Hello folks, this is a corporation with their OWN AGENDA for making PROFITS and if they can keep people dissastified with the HR10-250 then you will welcome their new MPEG-4 DVR and will gladly jump ship from your current unit. The code for the most part is in place and just needs to be tweeked for this particular unit. I was a programmer for 30 years and it is not that difficult to do. Therefore, don't you guys see what is going on. Look at my past posts. I predicted that you will NEVER see the new release.


Yes but there won't be any competition with the new MPEG format coming out. Directv will make sure of that with severing their agreement with Tivo to create future TIVO MPEG-4 compatible receivers. And if the existing HR10 won't receive all of the new HD channels everyone will jump ship from it regardless of a 6.2 upgrade.

There has to be another reason Directv is holding out.


----------



## richierich

Most of the HD channels will be Local Stations and even if there is a new MPEG-4 channel added it will also be broadcast in MPEG-2 for at least 2 years so as not to lose existing customers who do not have an MPEG-4 STB. An awful lot of people have local stations via OTA such as myself so I am not interested in going to an MPEG-4 STB or DVR just to get those locals in MPEG-4 via D* which may cost me money to subscribe to them along with the new dish installation etc. So I am happy to stay with my 2 HR10-250s both with 600 gig of hd memory and get FREE locals via OTA.


----------



## looknow12

richierich said:


> Most of the HD channels will be Local Stations and even if there is a new MPEG-4 channel added it will also be broadcast in MPEG-2 for at least 2 years so as not to lose existing customers who do not have an MPEG-4 STB. An awful lot of people have local stations via OTA such as myself so I am not interested in going to an MPEG-4 STB or DVR just to get those locals in MPEG-4 via D* which may cost me money to subscribe to them along with the new dish installation etc. So I am happy to stay with my 2 HR10-250s both with 600 gig of hd memory and get FREE locals via OTA.


I thought there was not enough bandwidth capacity to add more HD channels which is why they're changing to MPEG4 because it allows for more channels due to its higher compression. It doesn't make sense if they simulcast new MPEG-4 channels to MPEG-2 format as well.


----------



## richierich

They will keep the MPEG-2 channel as they add it to the MPEG-4 channel lineup. If they come up with a new channel that is not in the MPEG-2 channel lineup, they will probably not add it to the MPEG-2 lineup but until everyone is converted they will not do away with the current MPEG-2 lineup because they would lose customers that have not or do not want to convert. The first 2 years of this effort will be to add local channels for the Top 50 markets and maybe a few new channels in the new MPEG-4 format. After that is done and they have converted the majority of their customers to a MPEG-4 STB or DVR then they may start to get rid of the MPEG-2 channels to free up space but that will probably be 2 to 3 years down the road. If you get your locals via OTA then who cares?


----------



## looknow12

richierich said:


> They will keep the MPEG-2 channel as they add it to the MPEG-4 channel lineup. If they come up with a new channel that is not in the MPEG-2 channel lineup, they will probably not add it to the MPEG-2 lineup but until everyone is converted they will not do away with the current MPEG-2 lineup because they would lose customers that have not or do not want to convert. The first 2 years of this effort will be to add local channels for the Top 50 markets and maybe a few new channels in the new MPEG-4 format. After that is done and they have converted the majority of their customers to a MPEG-4 STB or DVR then they may start to get rid of the MPEG-2 channels to free up space but that will probably be 2 to 3 years down the road. If you get your locals via OTA then who cares?


Right so I don't think they will simulcast new MPEG-4 channels to MPEG-2 channels. Having said that, as new channels come out, HR10 subscribers will be out of luck. To spend 1000 per receiver for three receivers and to only get a small handful of HD channels while Directv continues to add new ones will irritate many HR10 Directv subscribers.


----------



## KenW

I think it would be a mistake to limit HD channels to MPEG4 until they come out with an HD DVR. DVR customers are their best customers with the highest retention. The HD DVR is just too far away, and I think it would hurt them.


----------



## oldguy

looknow12 said:


> Yes but there won't be any competition with the new MPEG format coming out. Directv will make sure of that with severing their agreement with Tivo to create future TIVO MPEG-4 compatible receivers. And if the existing HR10 won't receive all of the new HD channels everyone will jump ship from it regardless of a 6.2 upgrade.
> 
> There has to be another reason Directv is holding out.


Could the reason for no 6.2 update be that D* burned their bridges too soon with TIVO?

If TIVO was doing the programming for D* and D* told them they were going to start competing with them with their own units built by someone else, then it would not surprise me if TIVO said tough sh** when asked to continue software support.

That is, assuming TIVO provided the software support.

But, if TIVO has patients to a lot of the software features (such as the 30 second skip), they also may not let D* reprogrram the existing units and retain these features.


----------



## rlinsurf

lord-dogbert said:


> Hi,
> 
> http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/
> 
> I am waiting on someone from public relations to call me back today or tomorrow to arrange to personally deliver the petitions next week. Please sign quickly as next week is it.


Just saw/signed it... did you already deliver them?

All My Best,
Jeffrey


----------



## richierich

If they are coming out with their own DVR which will directly compete with the HR10-250 then why spend your resources enhancing it when you can direct those resources at your new DVR? Why make your competitor's DVR look better when it will to some extent compete with your own DVR?


----------



## Juppers

richierich said:


> If they are coming out with their own DVR which will directly compete with the HR10-250 then why spend your resources enhancing it when you can direct those resources at your new DVR? Why make your competitor's DVR look better when it will to some extent compete with your own DVR?


Because one the customer level, you have marketed it as a DTV HD DVR. It isn't a competitor's unit, it is their own branded unit. The real question is why abuse customers by not making the unit run as well as possible. They not want good word of mouth about their HD product? They want people saying their HD DVR is horribly slow? Considering the HR10-250 is the only HD DVR they have for at least 6 more months, they need to improve it to help promote their new HD DVR when it is finally ready.


----------



## christoc

I guess I can quit having my new HR10-250 dial in over and over again thinking it would get the 6.2 update! I just got it Saturday and knew that my R10 had 6.2, and my old Hughes that I hooked up after a year of not being connected got updated. I assumed the 250 would as well.

That kinda sucks, it is slow as hell!


----------



## txfeinbergs

Anyone have any updates to this?


----------



## richierich

I said all along that I believe that you will never get it and so far it looks like I am PSYCHIC!!! Forget about it!!! It ain't happening!!!


----------



## scooby2

The hr10-250 is dead to directv. wake up and smell reality folks.


----------



## lord-dogbert

rlinsurf said:


> Just saw/signed it... did you already deliver them?
> 
> All My Best,
> Jeffrey


Unfortunately I have not been able to gain an audience at Direct's corporate. My Public Relations contact, Donna Underhill is blowing me off and not returning phone calls. I have an old buddy that works in El Segundo who's going to look up her bosses info so that I can go that route. He and I are having lunch next week so I am going to bring the petition with me as well as my account number and DirecTv stock info. One share of stock means that I have a stake in the company and they have to listen to a stockholder more than a mere customer.


----------



## DVRaholic

Thanks for trying Lord-dogbert :up: ... But with the New NDS HR20-250 Due out in less than 2 months (Mid Feb acording to Earl and Robert) I seriously dobt your efforts will make any difference. 

Thanks again!


----------



## bigrig

richierich said:


> I said all along that I believe that you will never get it and so far it looks like I am PSYCHIC!!! Forget about it!!! It ain't happening!!!


I have very exciting news! Naomi the CSR says we will get the 6.2 upgrade!



> Dear Mr. Bigrig,
> 
> Thank you for writing DIRECTV. I am sorry to hear of the inconvenience this situation has caused. Please know that the HD DVR receiver (DIRECTV HR10-250), will get the 6.2 upgrade. However, the date has yet to be determined. Please stay tuned to directv.com/dvr62upgrade for the latest updates as it becomes available.
> 
> Also, I am sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having. Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.
> 
> Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Naomi
> DIRECTV Customer Service


And we all know how reliable the word of a CSR is! 

Dogbert, I hope you can get an audience! :up:

Matt


----------



## mikeny

I've seen that form letter before. Ha.

Unfortunately, the only real way we'll ever see folders on the HR10-250 is by (caution here if your not comfortable with handling the unit) delicately folding a piece of construction paper in half and cafefully mounting it on top of the unit. There you go.


----------



## flmgrip

i had a tivo with 3.x for years and was happy. long time after i read about the 6.x upgrade i finally downloaded it a friends house and i did not notice any exciting new things with it. so what's the big deal ? i love HD and i love my tivo...


----------



## litzdog911

flmgrip said:


> i had a tivo with 3.x for years and was happy. long time after i read about the 6.x upgrade i finally downloaded it a friends house and i did not notice any exciting new things with it. so what's the big deal ? i love HD and i love my tivo...


The ability to group multiple recordings for the same Series into Folders is one feature many of us would like to have.


----------



## Juppers

My biggest want would be the responsive program guide. Having a 6.2 box to compare with, the hr10-250 is nearly unbearable. 

A nice thing to have would be a native passthrough function. I've heard rumors that was planned for the next release for these things.


----------



## fasTLane

Native passthrough? Is that possible?


----------



## joetoronto

ok, i'm confused. 

on this site..... http://directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html it says the HR10-250 will NOT be getting the upgrade but if you look closely, there's a Tivo icon sitting in the middle of the screen.

I just bought one of these units, as a matter of fact, it's on it's way now from california. it sure looks like i wasted $500.00us. 

just how slow _is_ the guide anyway?

thanks, joe.


----------



## Runch Machine

It's not that slow. It takes about 3 seconds to load a program guide screen. It can take a minute or two to schedule a recording though. Not a factor for me usually since 99% of what I watch come from season passes.


----------



## richierich

bigrig said:


> I have very exciting news! Naomi the CSR says we will get the 6.2 upgrade!
> 
> And we all know how reliable the word of a CSR is!
> 
> Dogbert, I hope you can get an audience! :up:
> 
> Matt


STOP IT BIGRIG, you are killing me with laughter, I just fell off of my chair laughing. The only people who have less credibility than the D* CSRs are my BMW dealer service reps who have screwed me so many times I feel like a prostitute. I was the first person to buy and activate an HR10-250 with D* on April 12th at 9:00 A.M. and I had to tell the CSR how to do it, she thought it was a Hughes box and I had to tell her to look at the D* list of DVRs for instructions on how to activate it and she finally found that folder (she didn't even know that it existed). They are like the CIA, on a need to know basis. We know more info than they do.

If you believe them however, I will sell you some wonderful waterfront property just north of Miami and because you are such a nice guy I'll give you a great deal.


----------



## joetoronto

Runch Machine said:


> It's not that slow. It takes about 3 seconds to load a program guide screen. It can take a minute or two to schedule a recording though. Not a factor for me usually since 99% of what I watch come from season passes.


that's not so bad. thanks, machine.


----------



## Klankster

Runch Machine said:


> It can take a minute or two to schedule a recording though. Not a factor for me usually since 99% of what I watch come from season passes.


I was wondering if anyone else was having this trouble! It's about driving my wife nuts when she sets up recordings -- Sometimes it can take well over a minute on our HR10-250. Is this common, or is it due to the drives getting fragmented? Any fix for it?

Actually, after reading some of the postings here I consider myself lucky this is the extent of our problems with this unit (actually, the HDMI port stopped working a while back but the component HD output works OK, so I haven't bothered getting a replacement, though I did notify the dealer about the problem)...


----------



## LlamaLarry

The delay you mention is not specific to the HDTiVo, SD DirecTiVos had the same problem before 6.2.


----------



## richierich

The upgrade restructures the database so the retrieval process is faster. It needs a faster CPU.


----------



## Jimmmmbo!

I just put a new hard disk in my HR10-250 to replace a failing one. It now gets through the scheduling process much quicker than with the old hard disk. So there could very well be merit in the idea that the delays are partially associated with disk fragmentation. Of course, the hard disk is different and is a Seagate supposedly optimized for PVR work, but I doubt it has that much of an effect.

I've also had success with tuning the two tuners to channels that don't exist (such as local channel numbers with no signals), and this makes the recording scheduler run much faster, usually done within about 5 secs.


----------



## richierich

Jimmmmbo! said:


> I've also had success with tuning the two tuners to channels that don't exist (such as local channel numbers with no signals), and this makes the recording scheduler run much faster, usually done within about 5 secs.


Processing 2 HD channels of video takes alot of CPU work and that is why they should have increased the processor speed to handle 8 to 16 times more data. Therefore, tuning them to nonexistant channels eliminates alot of processor work so it can devote that time to scheduling recordings.


----------



## Klankster

Good information - Thanks. I knew that if the unit was in HD mode it was using more cycles to process that video information, but ours is even slow in SD on both tuners. We'll live with it for now -- I'm not going to tell my wife to tune both tuners to inactive channels -- I can just imagine the look she'd give me!


----------



## Carlton Bale

Juppers said:


> My biggest want would be the responsive program guide. Having a 6.2 box to compare with, the hr10-250 is nearly unbearable.


If you want a responsive program guide, switch from the crappy default DirecTV program guide to the Tivo program guide. It looks a little different (I like it better) and it is much, much faster as it comes directly from the Tivo database on the hard drive and not real-time downloads via the satellite.

It was ridiculous for DirecTV to make their guide the default when performance is so completely terrible.


----------



## richierich

I thought everyone used the Tivo Guide as it is much faster and I also like it better.


----------



## tase2

How do you switch between the two?


----------



## flmgrip

press info when you look at the guide and you'll be taken to an options screen


----------



## jhimmel

richierich said:


> I thought everyone used the Tivo Guide as it is much faster and I also like it better.


Depends on what I'm doing. Sometimes the TiVo guide is preferred, but sometimes the other guide is more useful. It's a shame it is so slow. Especially since the fix is available but denied to us by DTV.


----------



## Lee L

But it is still slow to set a recording, no matter what guide you use. They really should give this thing 6.2, but it sure seems like that ship has sailed.


----------



## cheer

richierich said:


> I thought everyone used the Tivo Guide as it is much faster and I also like it better.


Maybe it's just me, but I *hate* the Tivo guide. I much prefer the grid. The Tivo-style guide drives my entire family nuts.

For what it's worth.


----------



## BillyT2002

People who like to watch live-TV usually prefer the D*-style grid guide. I and others like me, who watch nothing on live-TV anymore (I only watch what has been recorded precisely so I can skip the advertising which I do in EVERY case), usually prefer the TIVO-style guide.


----------



## garyock

Guess I'm a little confused here.

Which one of the guides is which? I use the one the lists the channels on the left and when you click on any particular channel (of left) it will show guide of what's on that channel on right half.

Plus, maybe I'm lucky or whatever, I've never had ANY function take over 40-45 seconds....tops. Most are done in 3 to 7 seconds. And, I've set up, changed, cancelled many, many season passes, and usually set up recordings either from grid (above) or using search function.

BUT....it would be nice to have the upgrade to put the shows in 'folders' to ease of going thru list to see what you want to watch,etc.


----------



## SleepyBob

garyock said:


> Guess I'm a little confused here.
> 
> Which one of the guides is which? I use the one the lists the channels on the left and when you click on any particular channel (of left) it will show guide of what's on that channel on right half.


That's the TiVo Guide, which is standard on standalone TiVos. The DirecTV grid has channels down the side and timeslots across the top, in a grid format. I think the colored bars take the TiVo a lot more time to process, which makes navigating in it pretty slow.


----------



## looknow12

oldguy said:


> Could the reason for no 6.2 update be that D* burned their bridges too soon with TIVO?
> 
> If TIVO was doing the programming for D* and D* told them they were going to start competing with them with their own units built by someone else, then it would not surprise me if TIVO said tough sh** when asked to continue software support.
> 
> That is, assuming TIVO provided the software support.
> 
> But, if TIVO has patients to a lot of the software features (such as the 30 second skip), they also may not let D* reprogrram the existing units and retain these features.


There agreement with DTV may obligate them to complete an upgrade regardless. However the initial agreement will most likely not specify time frame to develop upgrades. Mainly because at the time of the TIVO/DTV agreement the scope of software upgrades were unknown. You can't put a project time frame on something you don't know yet. Even if the agreement specified..."To provide timely agreed upon software updates to all TIVO DTV receivers.." it would still leave a lot of leeway.

But why would TIVO do this. It's only in their best interests to make customers experiences with their software a good one. This way later on they may pull customers away from DTV back to their devices. If the software is the best it can be with the most unique features, customers might leave DTV in search for a platform that supports TIVO.

Quite honestly, I'm still in love with my old Ultimate TV (UTV). It is so superior to TIVO in so many ways it's sickening. I tear up when think about how it's now pretty much dead. But Microsoft has spent a considerable amount of money with Windows Media Center and is busy creating set top boxes for many cable companies, hopefully they will ink a deal with DTV we will get the same.


----------



## bdlucas

richierich said:


> Processing 2 HD channels of video takes alot of CPU work and that is why they should have increased the processor speed to handle 8 to 16 times more data. Therefore, tuning them to nonexistant channels eliminates alot of processor work so it can devote that time to scheduling recordings.


Unless you have inside information that I don't we're both just speculating, but based on my knowledge of how such things are designed I think it's unlikely that the processor has anything to do with processing the video itself. There's an chip dedicated to decoding MPEG2, and the output of that is a video stream which is in turn what is output from the box.


----------



## richierich

The chip just decodes the bitstream but the processor has to handle the data, write it it into the buffer, do alot of background work and then try to do other processes such as handle Season Passes, prioritizing that info to determine if it is doable and if not what conflicts are there, etc.


----------



## vstone

I would bet that the incoming bit stream(s) are moved directly from the tuner to the hard via DMA with little input (beyond controlling the file system) from the CPU. If they didn't do that, they'd be stupid, since it's doable in all modern PC's.

OTOH, people have said that the unit is slower if recording two HD bitstreams. This might mean that the disk interface won't support sufficient bandwidth (2 HD streams plus database operations, plus standard satellite info download and storage functions) under the current database system.

About 10 years ago I was at a presentation where the speaker was talking about a database about 300 MB in size running on a Compaq with 1 GB in memory. Efeectively the entire DB was cached in memory. With the current price of memory, you'd think that Tivo would do that (assuming the DB isn't very big).


----------



## looknow12

All of this is waaay off topic. I reiterate: "Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??"


----------



## Billy66

No


----------



## AbMagFab

looknow12 said:


> All of this is waaay off topic. I reiterate: "Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??"


How is "not a chance in hell, start looking at other options" off topic?


----------



## AbMagFab

vstone said:


> I would bet that the incoming bit stream(s) are moved directly from the tuner to the hard via DMA with little input (beyond controlling the file system) from the CPU. If they didn't do that, they'd be stupid, since it's doable in all modern PC's.
> 
> OTOH, people have said that the unit is slower if recording two HD bitstreams. This might mean that the disk interface won't support sufficient bandwidth (2 HD streams plus database operations, plus standard satellite info download and storage functions) under the current database system.
> 
> About 10 years ago I was at a presentation where the speaker was talking about a database about 300 MB in size running on a Compaq with 1 GB in memory. Efeectively the entire DB was cached in memory. With the current price of memory, you'd think that Tivo would do that (assuming the DB isn't very big).


IDE bandwidth is far, far greater than 2 HD streams. It's not the disk bandwidth, especially with the large block-size Tivo uses for their raw partitions.

It's definitely the processor. Why? We can speculate the details of the Tivo software, but it's the processor that's the issue.


----------



## richierich

Absolutely Not!!! Get over it and dream of other things that could possibly happen.


----------



## Gotchaa

Nobody at CES would answer this, even when I pointed out they had it on display last year at CES. Totally useless. It's not going to happen. Oh well, I just hope the D* HD DVR can be upgraded like the HDTivo with larger HD's


----------



## AbMagFab

Gotchaa said:


> Nobody at CES would answer this, even when I pointed out they had it on display last year at CES. Totally useless. It's not going to happen. Oh well, I just hope the D* HD DVR can be upgraded like the HDTivo with larger HD's


I hope the Series 3 SA HD Tivo will work with FIOS TV...


----------



## addictsw

Just a note here:

http://www.wkblog.com/

Weeknees's blog indicates that 6.2 is likely coming (still) to the HR10-250.

I'll believe it when I see it, but according to them this comes from multiple sources.


----------



## bigrig

addictsw said:


> Just a note here:
> 
> http://www.wkblog.com/
> 
> Weeknees's blog indicates that 6.2 is likely coming (still) to the HR10-250.
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it, but according to them this comes from multiple sources.


Yes, we still have hope!!


----------



## bjbyers

According to Tivo the HR10-250 is still not eligible for Tivo online services. Any idears if this is going to change, or an alternative method of obtaining the same content?


----------



## litzdog911

bjbyers said:


> According to Tivo the HR10-250 is still not eligible for Tivo online services. Any idears if this is going to change, or an alternative method of obtaining the same content?


You would need to hack your HR10-250 to enable USB networking. More info in the Tivo Underground Forum, and searching Google.


----------



## stevel

Even so, it would not be able to use TiVo's specific features except for Multi-Room Viewing. That said, you can do a lot with other tools.


----------



## Maddod-99

DIY or DIE, especially in this case.
Here is what I know about D*:

- last to give locals on SD in package
- says their HD locals will be available in 07 via satellite. read: 08?
- I pay for fox sports channels, 99% of which blackout everything but commercials.
- I have petitioned for East Coast channel feeds, which they wont give.
- says 6.2 is "coming", & if you use geological time progression as a reference, maybe they are right!

But its on me, I pay the bill & take it for what it is.
SO, what can I do today to better myself on the 10-250?

Can someone reference me to a fix to input folders myself? 
Is there a top 5 list of best fixes we can do to this box & how?
Id love to drop a new processor/s inside to make it faster, but that probably aint going to happen.

Appreciate all of the help & info here, great resource.

CJ


----------



## AbMagFab

addictsw said:


> Just a note here:
> 
> http://www.wkblog.com/
> 
> Weeknees's blog indicates that 6.2 is likely coming (still) to the HR10-250.
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it, but according to them this comes from multiple sources.


We've seen dozens of reports of this (since CES last year), but never anything from DirecTV. Until it comes from DirecTV, all current reports, like all past reports, are likely unfounded.

DirecTV has no reason to hold back announcing this, since the only impact is to make their high-end customers happy. Not announcing it hurts them.

Ergo, all "I know someone" reports are BS. It's not gonna happen.


----------



## Rombaldi

AbMagFab said:


> Until it comes from DirecTV, all current reports, like all past reports, are likely unfounded.
> 
> Ergo, all "I know someone" reports are BS. It's not gonna happen.


So, when did DirecTV say "it's not going to happen".

Which is the bigger BS?


----------



## AbMagFab

Rombaldi said:


> So, when did DirecTV say "it's not going to happen".
> 
> Which is the bigger BS?


People don't announce things they aren't doing - that's the most rediculous response I've heard in a while.

DirecTV probably hasn't announced no more updates to UltimateTV, either. Let's start some rumours!


----------



## Rombaldi

AbMagFab said:


> DirecTV probably hasn't announced no more updates to UltimateTV, either. Let's start some rumours!


And when's the last time DirecTV sold an UltimateTV eh? I bought a brand new, with warranty HD10-250 last week at BestBuy...

Try again.. anyone says that it may be coming and you dismiss them as BS, however you speak the absolute final word as "it's not happening"... so which is the BS... or do you speak for DirecTV on the record??


----------



## Lee L

Atthis point, I would probably die of a heart attack if they ever did announce 6.2 for the HR10-250. Sure, it is possible that it might happen, but look at the direction DirecTv is going. It is HD locals and MPEG4 for HDTV, something the HR10-250 does not support. Also, they are coming out with the DirecTv HD DVR, the HR20-250, later this year (they have promised end of Q206, but we'll see) so it just does not seem too likely they will even give 6.2 another minutes thought.


----------



## Chuck_IV

AbMagFab said:


> Ergo, all "I know someone" reports are BS. It's not gonna happen.


You need to say "*IMO*, it's not gonna happen". Others have their opinion.


----------



## cheer

Maddod-99 said:


> DIY or DIE, especially in this case.
> Here is what I know about D*:
> 
> - last to give locals on SD in package
> - says their HD locals will be available in 07 via satellite. read: 08?


Guess it depends on market -- they are available where I live (Chicago area) right now.


> - I pay for fox sports channels, 99% of which blackout everything but commercials.


Not their fault -- blackout rules are not set by D*.


> - I have petitioned for East Coast channel feeds, which they wont give.


Not their fault -- talk to the FCC on this one. Are you looking for SD or HD? For HD, you would have to get waivers from your local HD stations. If the stations are O&O, they may well grant them, but otherwise it's pretty unlikely.


> - says 6.2 is "coming", & if you use geological time progression as a reference, maybe they are right!


Who knows -- maybe Weakness has good information. But at this point I'm not holding my breath.

Then again, 6.2 came on us almost as a surprise for the SD models, so...



> Can someone reference me to a fix to input folders myself?


Not possible at this time.


----------



## bronx9

I have a new 10-250 what will 6.2 do for these tivos?


----------



## Rombaldi

bronx9 said:


> I have a new 10-250 what will 6.2 do for these tivos?


At the very least, speed up the interface/guide and give you folders so you don't have 65 listings for 'One Live to Live' cluttering up the Now Playing' list.


----------



## richierich

I heard Jesus is going to return also but don't hold your breath on that one either or maybe when he returns he will bring 6.2 with him as a gift to his faithful breathren so you better be good and believe in Jesus or you will not get 6.2.


----------



## SpankyInChicago

richierich said:


> I heard Jesus is going to return also but don't hold your breath on that one either or maybe when he returns he will bring 6.2 with him as a gift to his faithful breathren so you better be good and believe in Jesus or you will not get 6.2.


[PatRobertson]
You won't get 6.2 until Israeli PM Ariel Sharon stops trying to split up the holy land.
[/PatRobertson]


----------



## Cubfan

Need additional evidence that 6.2 is never coming?

Check out Matthew 6.2:

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."

Get it? You've already received your reward in full. They never should have announced it.


----------



## jetsetjoe

My report from CES 2006...

I approached a DirecTV rep at the CES to discuss the "slowdown" issue on the HR10-250. While talking to me, he spotted another rep and told me she was the real expert on settop box issues and I should talk to her.

First, let me assure you, she was intelligent, and I believe responsbile for settop box design.

I asked her if HR10-250 owners could expect to see a s/w upgrade soon. She looked me in the eye and ABSOLUTELY assured me it is in process. I told her that many HR10-250 owners doubt that to be true, because D* is dumping Tivo, and, moving to MPEG4 anyhow.

She replied that D* currently has "bodies thrown" at getting this issue resolved. She stated that since HD Nationals (ESPNHD, HBOHD, etc) will remain MPEG2 for a LONG LONG time, it is absolutely necessary for D* to resolve this issue for HR10-250 owners. However, she refused to reveal the release date, for the following reason...."D* has OTHER processing and s/w issues with the HR10-250 unit that must be resolved. The "slowdown issue" is being resolved as just one part of that update package. They are working to validate all the issues at one time.

So I now hold my breath with renewed hope.


----------



## AbMagFab

jetsetjoe said:


> My report from CES 2006...
> 
> I approached a DirecTV rep at the CES to discuss the "slowdown" issue on the HR10-250. While talking to me, he spotted another rep and told me she was the real expert on settop box issues and I should talk to her.
> 
> First, let me assure you, she was intelligent, and I believe responsbile for settop box design.
> 
> I asked her if HR10-250 owners could expect to see a s/w upgrade soon. She looked me in the eye and ABSOLUTELY assured me it is in process. I told her that many HR10-250 owners doubt that to be true, because D* is dumping Tivo, and, moving to MPEG4 anyhow.
> 
> She replied that D* currently has "bodies thrown" at getting this issue resolved. She stated that since HD Nationals (ESPNHD, HBOHD, etc) will remain MPEG2 for a LONG LONG time, it is absolutely necessary for D* to resolve this issue for HR10-250 owners. However, she refused to reveal the release date, for the following reason...."D* has OTHER processing and s/w issues with the HR10-250 unit that must be resolved. The "slowdown issue" is being resolved as just one part of that update package. They are working to validate all the issues at one time.
> 
> So I now hold my breath with renewed hope.


You must never talk to sales people in real life.

That was a total blow-off. We already have heard Tivo delivered a software update to DirecTV, and that DirecTV has refused to released it. "In Process" means nothing more than that. Even based on your recount, she made zero committment about releasing it to the public, just that they have it. And other than speed, my HD Tivo is perfect, as are most people's (I still chalk up the bulk of multiple failues a small percentage are having to poor diagnostics, not the HD Tivo.)

Given how often Tivo updates their software for SA boxes, I highly doubt it takes a year to test the HD software.

DirecTV wants to delay/prevent any HD Tivo update until their own HD DVR is out. The worse the HD Tivo looks, the better theirs will look. Plain and simple. They have zero motivation to get this update out. And they won't.

I'll go on record as saying that we will never see this update, or at best, months after they release their own HD DVR (so at best, the end of 2006). And even then, it won't be 6.2, it will be 3.2 with just the speed update - no folders, and no ability to hack HMO/MRV into it.

I'll have two Series 3 SA HD Tivo for OTA HD before DirecTV releases 6.x for the HD Tivo.


----------



## richierich

AbMagFab, you must be able to read my mind because what you stated is exactly what I think and have said before in this thread. There is no incentive to spend resources on a Tivo product when they need to spend those resources on their own DVR which will directly compete with the HR10-250. If the HR10-250 sucks and has problems, then they can entice those customers to buy the new DVR at a reduced cost with a new 2 year commitment and probably a Total Choice type package or above trading in their HR10-250. If they are going to offer us a deal to trade in a defective HR10-250 in the near future, then why make it work better especially when there are other issues (none that I know of or have heard of).

Also, the software can't be that much different than the SD version which has been out for a year so it doesn't take a ROCKET SCIENTIST to ascertain that IT AIN'T COMING!!!!!

Also, they could release this 6.2 fix now to appease us their most loyal and faithful customers and fix those other ISSUES in the next release, that would be most logical. I have worked in software for 30 years and that is how we would do it.


----------



## Mark Lopez

AbMagFab said:


> DirecTV wants to delay/prevent any HD Tivo update until their own HD DVR is out. The worse the HD Tivo looks, the better theirs will look. Plain and simple. They have zero motivation to get this update out. And they won't.


I'm not sure I really understand the philosophy of this statement. Who are they worried about how Tivo and the new DVR compares? Current Tivo owners or new DVR customers? Neither seems to make any sense. As a *new* HD DVR customer, most probably never have even seen a HD TiVo and thus it makes no difference. As a current HD Tivo owner, again, what difference does it make? If I am forced to switch to an MPEG4 unit at some point, then that's all there is to it and it doesn't matter. If I am not forced to switch right away (but can) but decide to keep my Tivo for as long as I can, it would make more sense to have it running as good as possible rather than seeing a 'better' unit come out and then DirecTV having to swap the Tivo out, most likely at a loss.


----------



## richierich

It makes perfect sense to me. Why throw resources at a product that has Tivo on it that will directly compete with their own DVR. It would be better to switch them over to your own DVR where you have complete control of the platform, specs, software, advertising, upgrades and also making it easier for your CSRs to maintain and troubleshoot without having several different products/platforms to figure out in order to help the customer.


----------



## Mark Lopez

richierich said:


> It makes perfect sense to me. Why throw resources at a product that has Tivo on it that will directly compete with their own DVR.


How is it competing? Perhaps *if* they keep selling Tivos AFTER their own HD unit comes out. But if they did keep selling them, that would be in conflict with your statement. Why continue to sell a product when you want people to buy something else? And if they quit selling HD Tivos, where is the competition? The only people affected would be current HD Tivo users. And as I mentioned, either they will be forced to swap at some point anyway or DirecTV will most likely have to take a loss on a 'voluntary' swap. So, again - where is the competition? To me it seems to make more sense to get as many miles out of the HD Tivo as they can instead of having to subsidize even more hardware.


----------



## richierich

In their eyes, they are distancing themselves from Tivo so why throw anymore money at a product that they no longer care about because they are about to replace it with their own DVR. Save all of those resources and apply them towards your own DVR.


----------



## Mark Lopez

richierich said:


> ...so why throw anymore money at a product that they no longer care about because they are about to replace it with their own DVR. Save all of those resources and apply them towards your own DVR.


Because it's cheaper to dole out an update and reap pure profit from the subs than give away DVRs at a loss? I don't know, maybe it is cheaper to do a swap. I just don't see how, especially if the 'fix' is already done.


----------



## richierich

I have worked for over 25 Fortune 500 companies as a computer consultant and I have seen them waste money getting rid of good systems that didn't make sense. Someone up top said our direction is to distance ourselves from Tivo and let's move on with out own product/platform/spec/software etc. that we can totally control and quit spending money on a product that is slated to be legacy product. Let's put all of our resources to making OUR PRODUCT the best that is out there so we can better compete with Comcast and others out there in the market place. It always boils down to money. 

Are you going to bail because they don't go to 6.2, I doubt it. So they lose nothing and gain those resources that they would spend on Tivo upgrading their software which they can now use on developing their own product. That is how departmental budgets are developed and managed.


----------



## Mark Lopez

richierich said:


> Someone up top said our direction is to distance ourselves from Tivo and let's move on with out own product/platform/spec/software etc. that we can totally control and quit spending money on a product that is slated to be legacy product.


Is that a fact or just speculation on your part? I remember not too long ago when the HD major networks were coming to DirecTV (national feeds) and everyone swore there was no way ABC (or one of networks, I don't recall for sure) was going to happen. And poof, there it was a few weeks later. My point is that you may be right and we will never see any more updates, but given DirecTV's history on doing the unexpected, I would not totally rule it out. And I'm still not convinced that it's not in their best interest $$ wise to do it.


----------



## AbMagFab

richierich said:


> Are you going to bail because they don't go to 6.2, I doubt it. So they lose nothing and gain those resources that they would spend on Tivo upgrading their software which they can now use on developing their own product. That is how departmental budgets are developed and managed.


See, that's where they are guessing wrong. With FIOS/Fiber TV (which is CableCard compatible), and the Series 3 SA HD Tivo, (and the possible 6412 port of Tivo), most of us early adopters will jump ship. Heck, I'll probably jump ship when the Series 3 is available (or 6412 Tivo), even if that means my local Comcast. Then I'll jump from Comcast when FIOS TV is available if Comcast continues to lag (right now they beat out DirecTV on HD).

DirecTV has nothing to retain us anymore. They crippled then dumped Tivo, which had both loyalty and solid functionality. They've compressed and downrezzed HD to the point that it's near DVD-quality, resulting in no-faith responses to the MPEG-4 rollout from most of their high-end customers. They've failed to deliver on new national HD channels year after year (we're now 2+ years after they said they'd double their HD programming, with nothing but UHD and ESPN2 to show for it).

DirecTV is finished with the high-end crowd. And the high-end crowd are the leaders and influencers for the medium- and low-end crowd. It won't be immediate, but DirecTV will be a may-pop provider in the not-too-distant future.


----------



## richierich

They have lost a lot of credibility because they never share any info with us. They never let us know that they acknowledge a problem and that they are working on it and what the tentative roll-out date will be. How difficult would that be? Keep your best customers happy and informed. You are right about doubling HD and what did we get ESPN-2 HD and UHD, big deal. I hardly ever watch either one because I am not into basketball or whatever they show on ESPN-2 HD. I hardly ever watch UHD. Thank GOD I have OTA HD locals because I don't even care if they come out with their MPEG-4 HD DVR, it will probably have so many bugs that it will take them a couple of years to fix them and guess what. They will not even admit there is a problem, much less let us know when they plan on fixing them.

I can't wait until it comes out so I can watch all of you guys that get it start complaining about it quality and bugs, etc. Maybe I will get one after it has been out a couple of years and they have all the bugs fixed, by then it will be cheap. All you will get with it is HD locals and I get that now for FREE!!!! YAWN!!!!! Do I CARE!!!! NAHHHH!!!!


----------



## SpankyInChicago

Mark Lopez said:


> Because it's cheaper to dole out an update and reap pure profit from the subs than give away DVRs at a loss? I don't know, maybe it is cheaper to do a swap. I just don't see how, especially if the 'fix' is already done.


The bottom line is that it all does come down to dollars. I can see it going either way.

There is a lot of incentive for a large company to support the smallest set of products possible, just like most large companies have a small number of standard desktop configurations to make IT support easier. And you raise a good point that a swap out from an HR10-250 to an HR20-250 to fix bugs that could be fixed with a software update to the HR10-250 does seem expensive.

So, what is cheaper? Switchout of X number of HR10-250 to HR20-250 over some period of time where some percentage of those swapouts are partially paid for by the customer (2 year commitments, shipping charges, $99 upgrade fee, etc.) combined with the reduced support expenses for two models? Or is it cheaper to support two models?

If the promises of a free "upgrade" to the HR20-250 are legitimate than they have already made the decision (on the books at least) to eat the upgrade costs. If that is the case, then their would be no reason to support the HR10-250 with software upgrades. Customer calls in with a problem with his HR10-250? Switch him out to the HR20-250.

In the end, whatever is cheaper for DirecTV will win out. I would imagine they have an analyst or two that has looked at this problem from many, many angles, built in risk factors, unknowns, applied weighting to different factors, etc., and came up with an answer. One day we will learn what that answer is.


----------



## SpankyInChicago

I've had some in-depth conversations about these topics with a couple guys from Abt Electronics' custom install department. These are guys out doing and selling multi-ten and multi-hundred thousand dollar installs and they all talk really poorly about DirecTV now. DirecTV was once a favored product of high end installs, now (in the Chicago market) it is looked down upon as an inferior product. I had a guy out at my house last Friday to ISF calibrate my TV and he said he can't recall the last time DirecTV was part of one of his jobs.

I have to believe that as this word of mouth filters out from Abt's custom install sales and service people to the 300+ sales people on their main floor that these people will start pushing middle and lower end consumers away from DirecTV.

Here in the Chicago market, Comcast sells "cable packages" inside or Best Buy and Circuit City just the same way that DirecTV does. You can sign up for Comcast at Best Buy just like you can sign up for DirecTV. If / when these guys start to get a bad taste in their mouth about DirecTV they are going to push people away.

Pissing off high end customers can backfire. I believe DirecTV is doing that in hopes that they can make it up in volume. I just can't see why Joe Blow in a major market like Chicago would opt for DirecTV on a new install or even on a switch from cable.

I am trying to think why my mom would switch to DirecTV from Comcast. I can think of none.


----------



## Mark Lopez

SpankyInChicago said:


> DirecTV was once a favored product of high end installs, now (in the Chicago market) it is looked down upon as an inferior product.
> 
> I just can't see why Joe Blow in a major market like Chicago would opt for DirecTV on a new install or even on a switch from cable.


The reason may have nothing to do with DirecTV's business practices as much as 'technology'. Before digital cable, nearly all cable sucked. I had never had cable service that didn't have a crappy picture on at least half of the channels. DirecTV however (at the time) could provide a much better picture. But as cable technology advances and deployment costs remain much lower than launching a new satellite, cable was going to become more 'high end' just by it's nature. However, until digital cable makes it's way out to the rural areas (which may be many years away), DirecTV will still be 'high end' in many parts of the country (like here). But I agree, that in a decent cable area, it seems like a no brainer to go that route.


----------



## cheer

SpankyInChicago said:


> Pissing off high end customers can backfire. I believe DirecTV is doing that in hopes that they can make it up in volume. I just can't see why Joe Blow in a major market like Chicago would opt for DirecTV on a new install or even on a switch from cable.
> 
> I am trying to think why my mom would switch to DirecTV from Comcast. I can think of none.


Cost? At least where I am at, for a multiroom system there's no way Comcast comes close in terms of $$$.

Also, as much as we complain here, I can tell you that D*'s customer service is a significant upgrade over the service I got from Comcast, which basically treated me like crap.

The deployment of fiberTV and IPTV will shake things up, I am sure.


----------



## joetoronto

first of all, directv stopped announcing future plans 2-3 years ago when the launch of a new bird went bad and they ended up holding the bag while they got reamed by everybody in the media and their customers.

since then, they've taken the policy to never announce any major plans.

as far as "hd lite" goes, it wouldn't shock me at all to see them come out with "classic hd" in the near future after everybody else has followed their lead to more hd channels that are compressed.

not only do they have the ability to make the competition follow them but they also have the ability to leave the competition behind when they so desire.

i'm not saying this is what they're going to do, only god knows that but it IS their style.

regarding the 6.2 update, i have a feeling they have had the update ready for months now and that it was going to be used for both the HR10 and the HR20 but they've delayed it because the development of the HR20 hit a few snags.

remember, the HR20 should have been out some time ago now.

as bad as directv is when it comes to customer service, no way, no how they leave existing customers with an HR10 out in the cold, it's just not going to happen.

yes, the directv guide is slow, no doubt about it, it DOES work though.

whenever i hear someone comparing cable to satellite, i stop listening simply because cable is vastly different from provider to provider AND area to area where as satellite is uniform in it's quality no matter where you are.

me, i'd rather stare at a blank wall than watch cable.


----------



## richierich

I'd rather stare at a blank wall than watch cable. That is so funny!!! I agree that cable sucks in my area. I use the Tivo Guide so the slowness does not affect me that much. I would have liked folders and the restructure of the database to speed up processing. Then they could add the other stuff in a followup release. Why wait until you have everything just right. Give us something for now and we'll be happy while we wait for the next release. Folders would be very nice.


----------



## bigrig

> regarding the 6.2 update, i have a feeling they have had the update ready for months now and that it was going to be used for both the HR10 and the HR20 but they've delayed it because the development of the HR20 hit a few snags.


The NDS DVRs won't use Tivo software.


----------



## joetoronto

bigrig said:


> The NDS DVRs won't use Tivo software.


are you saying the update couldn't have software for both, bigrig?


----------



## bigrig

joetoronto said:


> are you saying the update couldn't have software for both, bigrig?


Mmmm, no... Just that they will have to use different software. I'm not sure on the specifics on how the updates are deployed.


----------



## cheer

joetoronto said:


> are you saying the update couldn't have software for both, bigrig?


The "6.2 update" for the HR10-250 (if it exists) would not be used at all for the HR20, period, end of story.


----------



## Woodinville

cheer said:


> The "6.2 update" for the HR10-250 (if it exists) would not be used at all for the HR20, period, end of story.


Maybe the update is coming after all, and Weaknees is right. I have copied an email I received from a DTV CSR, in response to my complaints (3 calls, 3 emails) regarding lack of rebate for my HD-10-250, installed on 9/16 and originally submitted on 10/15. As an aside, and hoping for a credit, I couldn't resist complaining of the lack of 6.2 on my HD, while my SD Hughes has it with folders! I don't think I have ever seen info posted on scheduled upgrades. Hope the CSR is correct.

Dear Mr. ******,

Thanks for writing back. I'm so sorry that you have been having these issues with your DVR. I can understand how frustrated you must feel. Thank you for sending your rebate form and paper work back into DIRECTV. Due to the sheer volume of mail we receive each day, some rebate forms are never processed, either we never receive them, or unfortunately, they become lost in the process. I apologize for your inconvenience in having to resend these forms. As soon as we receive these forms, we will process them and issue you your rebate check.

As for your issues with the DVR 6.2 upgrade. Our records show that your receiver is communicating with us. The last callback being on 01/09/2006. I have checked further into this process and how it works. I found that this _upgrade will occur on either 03/07/06, or on 03/18/2006_ for your receiver. If your receiver does not have complete upgrade by 03/19/06, please contact our advanced technical team, to do this please call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical support. When a customer service representative answers, tell them you want to speak with an advanced technician that deals with DVR/HD issues and you will be transferred to the proper department.

Thanks again for writing; I apologize for the inconvenience and frustration you have experienced in regards to these matters. We appreciate your continued patience and support while we work to correct these issues as quickly as possible.

Sincerely,

*******
DIRECTV Customer Service

>>>>

I have deleted my name and the CSR's name. Interesting that each email was from a different CSR. Of course what do DTV csr names mean? I mailed my rebate forms to Mr. D.V. Richards and Mr. H.D.V. Roberts.  Oh, and if the update does come thru, I think some credit has to go to the FTC, as I mentioned in my previous email that I had filed a complaint with them.


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## bjbyers

IF my DirecTv HR10-250 does receive the upgrade, does that mean the media options (including Tivotogo) will be abailable to me?? Wasnt sure if Tivo said it would not work with DTV because they were not caught up on releases, or for some political/business challenge which had to be sorted out.
Thanks


----------



## AbMagFab

Woodinville said:


> Maybe the update is coming after all, and Weaknees is right. I have copied an email I received from a DTV CSR, in response to my complaints (3 calls, 3 emails) regarding lack of rebate for my HD-10-250, installed on 9/16 and originally submitted on 10/15. As an aside, and hoping for a credit, I couldn't resist complaining of the lack of 6.2 on my HD, while my SD Hughes has it with folders! I don't think I have ever seen info posted on scheduled upgrades. Hope the CSR is correct.
> 
> Dear Mr. ******,
> 
> Thanks for writing back. I'm so sorry that you have been having these issues with your DVR. I can understand how frustrated you must feel. Thank you for sending your rebate form and paper work back into DIRECTV. Due to the sheer volume of mail we receive each day, some rebate forms are never processed, either we never receive them, or unfortunately, they become lost in the process. I apologize for your inconvenience in having to resend these forms. As soon as we receive these forms, we will process them and issue you your rebate check.
> 
> As for your issues with the DVR 6.2 upgrade. Our records show that your receiver is communicating with us. The last callback being on 01/09/2006. I have checked further into this process and how it works. I found that this _upgrade will occur on either 03/07/06, or on 03/18/2006_ for your receiver. If your receiver does not have complete upgrade by 03/19/06, please contact our advanced technical team, to do this please call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical support. When a customer service representative answers, tell them you want to speak with an advanced technician that deals with DVR/HD issues and you will be transferred to the proper department.
> 
> Thanks again for writing; I apologize for the inconvenience and frustration you have experienced in regards to these matters. We appreciate your continued patience and support while we work to correct these issues as quickly as possible.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> *******
> DIRECTV Customer Service
> 
> >>>>
> 
> I have deleted my name and the CSR's name. Interesting that each email was from a different CSR. Of course what do DTV csr names mean? I mailed my rebate forms to Mr. D.V. Richards and Mr. H.D.V. Roberts.  Oh, and if the update does come thru, I think some credit has to go to the FTC, as I mentioned in my previous email that I had filed a complaint with them.


OMG, how many times do CSR's have to be proven completely wrong before people stop posting CSR responses?

Trust me, there isn't an ounce of truth in the above.


----------



## jcricket

bjbyers said:


> IF my DirecTv HR10-250 does receive the upgrade, does that mean the media options (including Tivotogo) will be abailable to me?? Wasnt sure if Tivo said it would not work with DTV because they were not caught up on releases, or for some political/business challenge which had to be sorted out.
> Thanks


Unfortunately, no. You will not get MRV, HMO or TTG with the 6.2 update for your HR10-250. You will get folders in the now-playing screen (as an option) and much improved speed in many operations. Probably some assorted bug fixes. I think that's about it.

From what I've seen of 6.1 on the R10s, the improved speed is worth it by itself. You forget what it's like to not have to wait for everything when all you have is the HR10.


----------



## jasch

AbMagFab said:


> DirecTV wants to delay/prevent any HD Tivo update until their own HD DVR is out. The worse the HD Tivo looks, the better theirs will look. Plain and simple. They have zero motivation to get this update out. And they won't.


If people can sue Apple because of scratches on their iPod Nanos, why can't we sue DirecTV for not keeping the HDTivo DVR up to date with software versions, while all other DTivos were updated 12+ months ago? Specially, with knowledge that the update is being held back.

There must be some kind of protection for the consumer to avoid the comment on the quote above...


----------



## richierich

I think this is just a nice customer service function that is free for us and not a contractual obligation.


----------



## pkscout

jasch said:


> If people can sue Apple because of scratches on their iPod Nanos, why can't we sue DirecTV for not keeping the HDTivo DVR up to date with software versions, while all other DTivos were updated 12+ months ago? Specially, with knowledge that the update is being held back.


You are free to sue whomever you like in the US. I'm sure there are some attorneys who would love to make money on a class action suit. Of course the lawyers are the only ones who would win. DirecTV would give up a little something and consumers would get even less (probably on the par of one month free of TiVo service from DirecTV).

This argument comes up from time to time. To save time let me summarize both sides.

Side 1: I have a right to all new TiVo features on my DirecTV unit

Side 2: DirecTV never promised any feature upgrades to any of the TiVo units.

I'm sure we will now embark on a 72 page debate of these two sides with absolutely nobody convincing anyone on the other side.

P.S. I think the Nano scratch suit is a piece of garbage, if that gives you any hint which side I tend to fall on with regards to TiVo updates from DirecTV.


----------



## jasch

What about the speed problems? Doesn't DirecTV has a duty to fix the problems with the current versions? They cannot hide the fact that the problem exists and that it is indeed fixable, as it was demostrated with 6.2 on the other DTivo units.


----------



## jasch

BTW, I believe the iPod class action suit is stupid, as I believe most of them are. I was just asking if there was any king of legal leverage that could be used besides suing DTV.


----------



## cheer

jasch said:


> What about the speed problems? Doesn't DirecTV has a duty to fix the problems with the current versions? They cannot hide the fact that the problem exists and that it is indeed fixable, as it was demostrated with 6.2 on the other DTivo units.


So long as the current software is functional (which it is -- and spare me the arguments about how it isn't because it's so slow) and so long as DirecTV never promised an update, then I can't imagine what legal argument would apply. (I'm not a lawyer, however, and if some lawyer would like to correct me, by all means do so.)


----------



## LlamaLarry

The speed issues aren't problems, they are the way the system works and worked when you bought it. That a new feature was added to the 6.x release that improved performance does not make the designed and expected performance of 3.x a bug. 

They didn't fix a bug, they added a feature. They get to decide if it is worth the effort to deploy a new software release/feature to any platform. If you think rolling 6.2 "free" for them then you missed all of the threads when it was sent out to the standard def boxes.


----------



## Mark Lopez

LlamaLarry said:


> .... issues aren't problems, they are the way the system works and worked when you bought it.
> 
> They didn't fix a bug, they added a feature.


Imagine the reaction if those statements were made by or in defense of Microsoft.


----------



## LlamaLarry

Would work the same if someone bought Windows ME and *****ed that XP came out and they wanted that for free. Wait, people *do* do that.


----------



## AbMagFab

LlamaLarry said:


> The speed issues aren't problems, they are the way the system works and worked when you bought it. That a new feature was added to the 6.x release that improved performance does not make the designed and expected performance of 3.x a bug.
> 
> They didn't fix a bug, they added a feature. They get to decide if it is worth the effort to deploy a new software release/feature to any platform. If you think rolling 6.2 "free" for them then you missed all of the threads when it was sent out to the standard def boxes.


Wow. Nice revisionist history.

Problem is, DirecTV isn't holding these back due to costs of release, they are holding them back in order to make their own DVR's look better.

Same with the lack of features in the released 6.1/6.2 for the SD DVR's, including HMO and MRV, and now TivoToGo (since the copyright issues clearly weren't the issue, and DirecTV has their own DirecTV2Go).

DirecTV is the bigger fish, and they are stifling innovation to make themselves look better. It's pathetic, but it's one way to make money, and the bulk of their customers won't know the difference.

Fortunately, the Tivo Series 3 will be out soon (likely before the DirecTV MP4 DVR), and FIOS TV is taking over county by county. Heck, at this point, I'd pay Comcast if I could get a Tivo. Whatever is available when the Series 3 is release is where I'm going.


----------



## Juppers

AbMagFab said:


> Wow. Nice revisionist history.
> 
> Problem is, DirecTV isn't holding these back due to costs of release, they are holding them back in order to make their own DVR's look better.
> 
> Same with the lack of features in the released 6.1/6.2 for the SD DVR's, including HMO and MRV, and now TivoToGo (since the copyright issues clearly weren't the issue, and DirecTV has their own DirecTV2Go).


I don't buy it. These ARE DirecTV's own DVRs. I don't see any other HD DVR available from DTV. I don't see these working with any other provider. They only hurt their new DVRs by poor word of mouth about their current DVRs.

The lack of features with no HMO/MRV in 6.1/6.2 really sounds more like a licensing issue. They didn't want the added cost per unit. They realized they could develop in house the same features and save a bunch of money on licensing since DVRs are becoming mainstream now and no longer a niche product.


----------



## lord-dogbert

Just talked to advanced support, they advise that the original release for 6.2 for the hr10-250 was 3-9-05 and 3-18-05. Looks like the CSR that wrote that email just changed the date to 06.

I am still being blown off on the petition delivery. Showed up and asked for Public Relations, was told that no one is available to come to the lobby. I guess that i'll just have to mail it to the president's office :-(


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## JaserLet

My neighbor's dentist's secretary overheard her son's friend's uncle say that Dish Network has heard through the grapevine that DirecTV is going to roll out the 6.2 update on May 10, 2004 by renting a time machine from the Rand Corporation.

I'm tired of these rumors and hearsay too. Naturally I too would like the update for my machine and I have signed the petition, encouraged my HR10-using friends to sign the petition, and I call and email DirecTV every week about it as well.

In the past three weeks I have received two emails from DirecTV stating that the update will come soon. In both cases I'm pretty sure the email was a patchwork of cutting-and-pasting as it sounds a little bit like the email posted above and a little bit like the 6.2 blurb on DirecTV's website.

It is my personal opinion that the lack of a 6.2 update is not the result of a conspiracy, but is instead a side effect of DirecTV's priorities. I would wager to bet that the HR10 6.2 update is in the hands of an overworked engineer who is already working 50 hours a week on seven other projects. His manager, as well as the group that oversees the HR10 sales and support, probably see no reason to rush or to even release the update at all. The current software for the HR10 already meets all of the bulleted list items/features that were originally promised, so it's a done deal. Heaven forbid they go beyond the bare minimum.

Good luck delivering the petition. Public Relations and Customer Service is all about putting out fires, they exist to soothe the ruffled feathers of customers and members of the press by issuing quick fixes and canned phrases. If you want any sort of reaction, you're going to have to contact the CEO, President, and/or Chairman of the Board of Directors. They're the only people who can breathe fire down the backs of the appropriate departments in order to stir up some action. Talking to PR and CSR is like pissing in the wind.


----------



## AbMagFab

Juppers said:


> I don't buy it. These ARE DirecTV's own DVRs. I don't see any other HD DVR available from DTV. I don't see these working with any other provider. They only hurt their new DVRs by poor word of mouth about their current DVRs.
> 
> The lack of features with no HMO/MRV in 6.1/6.2 really sounds more like a licensing issue. They didn't want the added cost per unit. They realized they could develop in house the same features and save a bunch of money on licensing since DVRs are becoming mainstream now and no longer a niche product.


It's not a licensing issue, it's a competitive issue. DirecTV squashed the 6.1/2 feature list 9+ months before their R15 was delivered. And they're doing the same to the HR10 (except that it will end up being 20-36+ months between the original release date of 6.2 for the HR10 and the HR20 non-Tivo HD DVR).

You forget that the Tivo HR10 is still comparable or better to anything else out there. Imagine what it would be like with the full 7.x feature set? (You won't have to imagine long - the Series 3 SA HD Tivo will be out soon.) DirecTV simply couldn't compete with that.

Trust me, this has everything to do with DirecTV trying to save face by making the "old DVR" look old.

The Tivo 3 will be available soon, and DirecTV will lose many of their high-end customers as a result. With the middle-end to follow suit over the following months as a result.


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## codespy

As most will consider me a newbie w/# of posts, hopefully the flaming won't be too bad.
My 10-250 was installed last Thurs AM. Worked fine the entire day. Friday AM woke up, unit would not turn on (fan was running, no buttons worked). Unplugged, then would reboot again and again after 25 mins. 'Cleared & deleted everything' on SAT., and after 10 hours stuck on that screen, even after reboot, an advanced Senior Tech processed to send me a new unit.

I questioned when is 6.2 coming, and here is what he indicated:

'Your talking to the right guy'. He said he was one of many involved in finishing up the final touches of the upgrade itself. The title will be 6.something. In the next couple of weeks, they are sending the upgrade to DTV employees and management's IRD's. As long as they achieve no more than 1% failure rate, they will start sending to customers starting on the east & west coast and working their way inland from both sides. 

Timeline I asked: 3-6 months. He said it won't take that long if the failure rate is kept to a minimum. He figures 2 months roughly.

I guess it's a little glimmer of hope. I would say expect it in the next 2 years and if it comes sooner, you guys will be really pleasantly surprised.

HINT: Keep your expectations LOW!


----------



## MarcusInMD

I hate to burst that bubble. But DirecTV was feeding everyone the same song and dance last April. Employees get the release first then if the failure rate is low customers would start receiving it...blah blah blah. Alot of us figured June, July at the latest. almost 7 months later and they are still saying the same thing.


----------



## JaserLet

I would have bought that garbage a year ago, but not today. There is no way DirecTV employees will be testing the 6.2 software on the HR10 units so close to the release of the HR20. If anything, they are beta testing the new HR20 machines at home.

I am still very happy with my HR10 and I would buy it again if I was given the opportunity. The 3.x software is still a pleasure to use. Of course I would like the 6.x update, but I really doubt it's going to happen, although I am still pestering DirecTV about the issue with my last glimmers of hope.

What really torques my lugnuts is how DirecTV has pretty much ignored their high-paying HD DVD early adopters. It is my opinion that they are shooting themselves in the foot by treating their first class citizens as third class citizens. They should be helping the early adopters as much as possible, we HR10 users are a small bunch, but wouldn't it be a good idea for DirecTV to give us reason to sing their praise? Instead they have us grumbling and talking about Tivo3+Comcast.


----------



## bpdp379

I would settle for 3.15x just so I could have logos again...


----------



## AbMagFab

bpdp379 said:


> I would settle for 3.15x just so I could have logos again...


Actually, I think rbautch's script will add logos back.

And no, that CSR long-winded answer is BS. The 6.2 upgrade for the HR10 == the HR20. DirecTV has zero motivation to make the HR10 look any better. They want all of us to go to the HR20.

Too bad (for them) the Tivo Series 3 is coming out, probably before the HR20.


----------



## Lee L

Hey, one day, when I make a lot of money, I will give you all $1,000.


That statement has about as much chance of coming true as anything regarding 6.2 on the HR10-250.


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## codespy

Why don't we just pitch in and give some money to an 18 year old wizard to write the update. Hell- they're at the age where they know everything anyway!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Mark Lopez

AbMagFab said:


> And no, that CSR long-winded answer is BS.


Just one question - are you going to appologize to everyone for the rantings if it does indeed get released?


----------



## jcricket

While I agree that DirecTV has little motivation to release 6.2 for the HR10, it's not like its release is going to make everyone stick with the HR10 when the HR20 comes out. For a lot of people (me included) OTA is a hassle, and MPG4 locals via satellite will be a big draw of the HR20, even with "folders and faster UI" with my HR10. For the 95% of D*'s customers who haven't upgraded to HD, the HR20 will be what's available, and they'll take it.

My point is that it is arguable whether releasing the upgrade is more or less in D*'s favor. Not releasing it might make the HR20 more attractive to people who have the HR10, but it might make those HR10 owners angry too. Many people on this board are feeling shafted by D*, and would be more likely to look at the HR20 if their HR10s were better supported by D*.

So, it's probably less malice than sheer laziness and other organizational priorities (however misguided). As all of us who work in big corporations know, decisions aren't always made to benefit everyone, but sometimes a narrow set of interests dictated from the top.


----------



## jasch

Well, that's true. The HR10-250 is dead in a couple of years, when MPEG2 is phased out for HD. The only use for the HR10 would be for SD recording.


----------



## AbMagFab

jcricket said:


> My point is that it is arguable whether releasing the upgrade is more or less in D*'s favor. Not releasing it might make the HR20 more attractive to people who have the HR10, but it might make those HR10 owners angry too. Many people on this board are feeling shafted by D*, and would be more likely to look at the HR20 if their HR10s were better supported by D*.


That's everyone's point. DirecTV isn't releasing 6.2 for their own selfish means, however it's at the expense of the HR10 owners (a pretty high overlap with their high-end customers).

Ergo, DirecTV is screwing up (at least in our opinions). And they'll likely lose a bunch of us. What they forget is that we "lead" the middle- and low-end crowd, and while it has a slower rate of change, it changes.

FIOS/Fiber TV is the next "savior" to take over where DirecTV left off a couple years ago. That plus the Tivo Series 3 makes for perfect TV for a while to come.


----------



## JTAnderson

I was throwing back a few with Rupert Murdoch this weekend and he got pretty drunk. So, I took the opportunity to ask him if 6.2 would ever be released for the HR10-250. He said he hadn't decided yet since he was having so much fun stringing "those suckers" along with the occasional rumor that it was coming. Then he started laughing maniacally, the sky darkened, and it began to thunder. He always scares me when he does that, so I left.

(Don't worry, he calls everyone "those suckers", not just DIRECTV subscribers.)


----------



## fasTLane

You serious Clark?


----------



## TyroneShoes

jcricket said:


> ...My point is that it is arguable whether releasing the upgrade is more or less in D*'s favor. Not releasing it might make the HR20 more attractive to people who have the HR10, but it might make those HR10 owners angry too. Many people on this board are feeling shafted by D*, and would be more likely to look at the HR20 if their HR10s were better supported by D*.
> 
> So, it's probably less malice than sheer laziness and other organizational priorities (however misguided). As all of us who work in big corporations know, decisions aren't always made to benefit everyone, but sometimes a narrow set of interests dictated from the top.


I pretty much agree. But there is a difference between "feeling" shafted, and "being" shafted. I know nobody wants to hear it, but the HR10 has delivered everything that was promised. There is certainly no obligation to improve a product after it has been bought and delivered. If they DO upgrade it, that's just gravy. Feeling shafted because there is no upgrade on the horizon would just be completely unrealistic, IMHO. If you want to experience feeling shafted, buy a DISH PVR. They can almost guarantee you that feeling.

Adding an update could foster good will, but that must be balanced against the cost, and against how lame the coming replacement PVR might look next to it once the feature set satisfies everyone. I feel that owning a terrific, unparalelled PVR that has an obviously upgradeable feature set is not really a bad place to be. Sure, I want it all, but I want lap dances from Angelina Jolie and Lindsay Lohan, too. No one else in my household is really rooting very strongly for that development to take place.


----------



## pendragn

codespy said:


> Why don't we just pitch in and give some money to an 18 year old wizard to write the update. Hell- they're at the age where they know everything anyway!!!!!!!!!


You joke, but there is an effort at other places to do exactly this. Seems a bit harder in real life than it looks on paper.

tk


----------



## AbMagFab

JTAnderson said:


> I was throwing back a few with Rupert Murdoch this weekend and he got pretty drunk. So, I took the opportunity to ask him if 6.2 would ever be released for the HR10-250. He said he hadn't decided yet since he was having so much fun stringing "those suckers" along with the occasional rumor that it was coming. Then he started laughing maniacally, the sky darkened, and it began to thunder. He always scares me when he does that, so I left.
> 
> (Don't worry, he calls everyone "those suckers", not just DIRECTV subscribers.)


Now, this is the most realistic thing in this thread so far...


----------



## GaryD9

I can't help to add my own post to this long thread...

Before purchasing an HR10-250, I sent email to D* customer support asking about the 6.2 upgrade on that unit. I specifically stated in my email that availability of the 6.2 upgrade is a condition of my upgrading to the HR10-250.

I, of course, got back the canned email stating that the HR10-250 WILL be getting the 6.2 upgrade (which was exactly what I wanted..)

This email is safely tucked away for future use... This is a commitment from D* to me that the HR10-250 will get the 6.x software upgrade. The message also makes it clear that my decision to purchase the HR10-250 is based on that commitment. In other words, until the 6.x software upgrade is available for my unit, D* has NOT fullfilled it's promise to me. 

No, I have no intentions of suing D*, etc. However - if D* chooses not to provide an upgrade, that email gives me a legal way to get out of the 2 year contract with them... Yes, there are all kinds of legal issues with that, but the email is enough to give to my state AG for a complaint of fraud... 

Honestly, I think D* will be doing the 6.x upgrade for the HR10-250. However, it's a low priority item for them right now. I suspect that (once they get the remaining bugs worked out) the level of support on the 6.2 software is lower than the 3.1 software. On the other hand, I can understand the 6.x software taking longer for them on the HR10's compared with the other DVR's as the HR10's contain additional hardware (ATSC tuners, HD decoders, etc) that the SD units don't have. I wouldn't be surprised if D* is also spending some time with the HR10 6.x software trying to completely take OUT the MRV/HMO code (instead of just disabling it as they did with the SD 6.2 code.)


----------



## bjbyers

So I signed the petition to get my Commodore 64... excuse me, scratch that, my HR10-250 upgraded... but has anyone thought about filing something at bbb.org or is that idear just silly?


----------



## frankygamer

I've read several posts and since when is D* writing the code for the DTivo's???? Tivo writes the code right? (based on what DirecTV tells/pays them.) I can't imagine D* even having the source code to modify. For that reason, I don't see how the 6.2 update is draining D* resources (except for the occasional update that goes bad and they have to support over the phone). 

D* either has the final SW from Tivo or they have been rejecting Tivo release candidates for over 12 months. Who knows, maybe D* has asked Tivo to get ALL of the HMO/MRV code out of the 6.x SW and Tivo is dragging their feet. And who would blame them. Tivo's future is Series 3 and building on the 7.x SW not kissing D*'s butt. 

I still don't think we will see the update..... instead we'll get offered a HR20 and in the mean time just say the "date is yet to be determined". I have several emails promising 6.x on the HR10 and I plan to point to them when I cancel D* when the Series 3 is available. I recently picked up a SA Tivo for the hell of it and I want 7.x not a stripped down 6.x. 

DirecTV has been holding features back for years that they are quick to advertise will be available with their new DVR's. I just think its all BS and doesn't sit with me well. The fact that they go so far to call their version of "TivoToGo" to "DirecTVtoGo" just shows their arrogance.


----------



## codespy

Talked with a CSR today reference my free refurbshed DVR offer. Then I asked about progress of the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. In her system, a note was posted on 1-25-06 regarding the update. The initial upgrades will start on March 7th, 2006 rolling thru March 18th, 2006. She advised if I have not received the update as of March 19th, I should check phone line connections, etc.

A glimmer of hope anyway. Like the rest of you I've been waiting 15+ years for this!

Let the flaming begin.

If the upgrades do happen around this time, and you flamed me, you owe me $10,000 cash for each occurance. No checks please.


----------



## AbMagFab

codespy said:


> Talked with a CSR today reference my free refurbshed DVR offer. Then I asked about progress of the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. In her system, a note was posted on 1-25-06 regarding the update. The initial upgrades will start on March 7th, 2006 rolling thru March 18th, 2006. She advised if I have not received the update as of March 19th, I should check phone line connections, etc.
> 
> A glimmer of hope anyway. Like the rest of you I've been waiting 15+ years for this!
> 
> Let the flaming begin.
> 
> If the upgrades do happen around this time, and you flamed me, you owe me $10,000 cash for each occurance. No checks please.


You have got to be kidding.

I think if you check back enough in this thread, you'll see the same message, but the dates would be 2005. Note the dates - rollout Tuesday through Saturday? Unlikely... Monday through Friday (of 2005) makes more sense. In fact, that might be the dates for 6.2 on the Series 2 (not HD Tivo).

CSR's know absolutely nothing - when will you all get this through your heads?

This is total nonsense, and won't be happening. And when those dates pass, you owe me $10,000 for each day of the rollout that we didn't get an update.

Enough with the reverse-FUD already.


----------



## codespy

Ouch!!



AbMagFab said:


> You have got to be kidding.


Would I lie to you??? I got better things to do rather than drum up BS at 11:00 on a Monday night!


----------



## JaserLet

The latest rumors suggest that we will indeed be getting a new version. However it will not be 6.2. The actual version will be 2.6. That's right, a downgrade! Among other things, this "new" version will feature a text-mode unix command line interface! No more slow graphical menus! Just set it and forget it!

Tired of "Please Wait"? With 2.6 selecting a program to record will be much faster! Simply type in your TiVo commands!!

directv% tivorec -channel 301 -date 200602141900 -seasonpass add -saveuntil i_delete

It couldn't be easier! USB keyboard sold separately. Void where prohibited.


----------



## joetoronto

JaserLet said:


> The latest rumors suggest that we will indeed be getting a new version. However it will not be 6.2. The actual version will be 2.6. That's right, a downgrade! Among other things, this "new" version will feature a text-mode unix command line interface! No more slow graphical menus! Just set it and forget it!
> 
> Tired of "Please Wait"? With 2.6 selecting a program to record will be much faster! Simply type in your TiVo commands!!
> 
> directv% tivorec -channel 301 -date 200602141900 -seasonpass add -saveuntil i_delete
> 
> It couldn't be easier! USB keyboard sold separately. Void where prohibited.


huh?


----------



## SecureTalk

JaserLet said:


> The latest rumors suggest that we will indeed be getting a new version. However it will not be 6.2. The actual version will be 2.6. That's right, a downgrade! Among other things, this "new" version will feature a text-mode unix command line interface! No more slow graphical menus! Just set it and forget it!
> 
> Tired of "Please Wait"? With 2.6 selecting a program to record will be much faster! Simply type in your TiVo commands!!
> 
> directv% tivorec -channel 301 -date 200602141900 -seasonpass add -saveuntil i_delete
> 
> It couldn't be easier! USB keyboard sold separately. Void where prohibited.


LOL

Some of us power users would like a non-GUI interface. I almost wish this were true.


----------



## AbMagFab

codespy said:


> Ouch!!
> Would I lie to you??? I got better things to do rather than drum up BS at 11:00 on a Monday night!


Didn't say you were lying, just amazed you would post something from a clueless CSR.


----------



## cheer

SecureTalk said:


> Some of us power users would like a non-GUI interface. I almost wish this were true.


*Coming next: a linux-powered automobile!*

The power of linux harnassed to your vehicle! Includes command line for greater precision. Now instead of a vague GUI for control of your vehicle, you'll execute turns like so:

turn -a 37 -d 17 -t 36 -r (see man pages for parameter values)

Mileage: car is very fuel-efficient. In order to achieve this, the car is constructed as a two-seater that employs a virtual back seat. Passengers are swapped in and out as needed.

Common automotive start-up tasks (such as engaging the fuel pump, sending power from the distributor cap to the spark plugs, etc.) are all controlled via startup scripts in /etc/rc.d. Anyone familiar with linux can tweak to their hearts' content!

Accessories for the car (audio systems, additional air bags, etc.) will be available. Some can be added via apt-get, but others will have to be compiled from source, particularly if the model car you've chosen uses a different architecture.

For the commercial market, IBM will be producing their own linux-powered vehicle. Expected list price is $186,000.

--chris


----------



## andrewket

So I must admit I haven't been watching the forum lately; lately defined as the past year. I've just been too busy.

However, my HR10-250 has been getting slower and slower, and just now to the point that I paused an HD program (24) and when I tried to resume it just hung. It was recording something else in the background at the time. I tried everything but ultimately had to pull the power (thereby losing whatever it was recording.) It came back up OK and I'm back to watching 24, but... clearly there are issues with this thing. 

So I jumped on here and I knew I would either find 1) Many other people with the same issues, or 2) A fix. Unfortunately it looks like its #1  

The speed increase on 6.x on the HDVR2's was amazing. I would HOPE, pray, etc., that DTV sends a 6.x upgrade for these units, but I'm not holding my breath.

ARGGGGH!! I paid $1k for this thing!

-A


----------



## SecureTalk

cheer said:


> *Coming next: a linux-powered automobile!*
> 
> The power of linux harnassed to your vehicle! Includes command line for greater precision. Now instead of a vague GUI for control of your vehicle, you'll execute turns like so:
> 
> turn -a 37 -d 17 -t 36 -r (see man pages for parameter values)
> 
> Mileage: car is very fuel-efficient. In order to achieve this, the car is constructed as a two-seater that employs a virtual back seat. Passengers are swapped in and out as needed.
> 
> Common automotive start-up tasks (such as engaging the fuel pump, sending power from the distributor cap to the spark plugs, etc.) are all controlled via startup scripts in /etc/rc.d. Anyone familiar with linux can tweak to their hearts' content!
> 
> Accessories for the car (audio systems, additional air bags, etc.) will be available. Some can be added via apt-get, but others will have to be compiled from source, particularly if the model car you've chosen uses a different architecture.
> 
> For the commercial market, IBM will be producing their own linux-powered vehicle. Expected list price is $186,000.
> 
> --chris


Your post sounds like a good article for " The Onion" http://www.theonion.com/content/science

TiVo specific Onion Article
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/26909

I like your thinking 

Seriously, it would be nice if TiVo had command line support as an option, through a networked PC or UNIX workstation. I actually do some control functions via the command line (TELNET) on my two T-60s that are connected to my LAN, via Ethernet. The commands I came up with as well as some done through software contributed from other forum members, let me do functions and not interfere with the program playing on the TV. I can schedule shows, undelete shows ...etc... that would normally have a 'Please Wait' message for 5 minutes on the screen.


----------



## lord-dogbert

Well the petition is at 714 signatures. CRG advises that they have nothing showing via a search for ANY software updates for any Tivo units. 

As for delivery of the petition I am closer; after going to the office and waiting for an hour I left my card and was contacted the next day by a PR person. We have been playing a phone tag game but she is interested in meeting me. 

If this pans out at least i'll get some sun shine blown up my rear but i'll feel better that I delivered it.


----------



## fastep

I added moto6412 (comcast) to my hr10-250s and lately find myself recording everything to the moto just because I HATE the "please wait" message. The only problem is the moto only has a 120gb hd (not enough). You know, if it wasnt for the SLOWNESS of HDtivo, I probably would have never thought of switching back to cable (and eventually I will leave DTV completely when my 1 year special price expires with comcast). By then im sure comcast will offer a larger hd or tivoIII and verizon fios will also offer more \ better pq with larger capacity. 

By sitting on their hands DTV is going to lose their best customers! Pretty DUMB business plan if you ask me.....


----------



## lord-dogbert

I finally got hold of her, she asked that I not post name or extension so I wont. I will be printing out the updated petition tonight and will close it to new signatures now that I have solid traction with DTV's corporate.  

As expected she doesn't know anything about the technology side but will act as an advocate for us. I told her that 714 users over the past few months from basically one forum indicates a dissatisfaction with the product. She agrees that there is something wrong since this many customers are not happy.

We'll see where this goes but at least i'm happier now.


----------



## lord-dogbert

fastep said:


> By sitting on their hands DTV is going to lose their best customers! Pretty DUMB business plan if you ask me.....


Sign the petition today as i'm closing it tonight, you'll be # 715.


----------



## bigrig

PJO1966 said:


> I signed the petition. I also went to www.planetfeedback.com I had used them in the past to complain to Verizon Wireless. The complaint went to someone in the CEO's office and I got a quick response. Unfortunately the site is down at the moment "while it gears up for an exciting re-launch". I'll keep checking back and will post when it's up again. That would be a good backup method to signing the petition.


Looks like planetfeedback is back again.

I submitted the following:

"The Standard Definition (SD) DVRs have received the Tivo 6.2 software upgrade, which provides a faster, more responsive user interface, and groups recorded TV shows into folders in the "Now Playing List".

The HR10-250 High Definition (HD) DVR that DirecTV currently uses has not received the 6.2 software upgrade, but it is definitely needed. After instructing the DVR to record a certain program, it can take over 5 minutes before the DVR will respond to other commands. Scrolling through the channel guide, it can take ~10 seconds for the program information to load. And with a 250GB hard-drive, there can be hundreds of TV shows in the Now Playing List, so arranging them into folders would be a big help.

The HR10-250 is DirecTV's most advanced (and expensive) DVR, so I believe the 6.2 software update should be provided to customers that have purchased this unit."

Matt


----------



## joetoronto

lord-dogbert said:


> Sign the petition today as i'm closing it tonight, you'll be # 715.


where's the petition?


----------



## lord-dogbert

http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

I have early morning work to do Wednesday so off to bed early tonight and i'll compile everything Wednesday morning at 6. I am actually going to ship the package to my contact and then meet her when she has answers. I'll post the tracking # tomorrow.


----------



## lord-dogbert

bigrig said:


> Looks like planetfeedback is back again.
> 
> I submitted the following:


Hi,

Did you include a link to the petition:
http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/

Meesa thinkin that if numbers are still coming in now that we have planetfeedback that i'll wait for Monday. I'll monitor and advise.


----------



## PJO1966

bigrig said:


> Looks like planetfeedback is back again.
> 
> I submitted the following:
> 
> "The Standard Definition (SD) DVRs have received the Tivo 6.2 software upgrade, which provides a faster, more responsive user interface, and groups recorded TV shows into folders in the "Now Playing List".
> 
> The HR10-250 High Definition (HD) DVR that DirecTV currently uses has not received the 6.2 software upgrade, but it is definitely needed. After instructing the DVR to record a certain program, it can take over 5 minutes before the DVR will respond to other commands. Scrolling through the channel guide, it can take ~10 seconds for the program information to load. And with a 250GB hard-drive, there can be hundreds of TV shows in the Now Playing List, so arranging them into folders would be a big help.
> 
> The HR10-250 is DirecTV's most advanced (and expensive) DVR, so I believe the 6.2 software update should be provided to customers that have purchased this unit."
> 
> Matt


Thanks for posting this. I had completely forgotten about my pledge to keep up with planetfeedback.


----------



## bigrig

lord-dogbert said:


> Did you include a link to the petition:
> http://www.ipetitions.com/campaigns/hr10-250_6.2_update/
> 
> Meesa thinkin that if numbers are still coming in now that we have planetfeedback that i'll wait for Monday. I'll monitor and advise.


No...I actually didn't post my letter publicly. I wasn't sure if it was going to contain my contact information. 

Also, I'm not sure how many people at that website would share our specific concern. I just gave it a shot as PJO1966 said it had been effective for him before.

Matt


----------



## txfeinbergs

Added my name to the petition.


----------



## joetoronto

txfeinbergs said:


> Added my name to the petition.


me too.


----------



## vid53

Well I just had my question answered by directv about the 6.2 update.
"We have no plans at this time for an upgrade for the HR10-250. But make sure to keep your DVR plugged to a phone line for any future decisions".

Im so glad we all own the HR10-250 DVRs and are locked in to 2 years of wedded bliss with directv, aren't you?

Vid53


----------



## codespy

Too bad Capitol One doesn't provide satellite service.  <No Hassles>


----------



## joetoronto

vid53 said:


> Well I just had my question answered by directv about the 6.2 update.
> "We have no plans at this time for an upgrade for the HR10-250. *But make sure to keep your DVR plugged to a phone line for any future decisions".
> *
> Im so glad we all own the HR10-250 DVRs and are locked in to 2 years of wedded bliss with directv, aren't you?
> 
> Vid53


and to top it off, he gives you the ole "make sure you keep it plugged into a phone line" bullcrap.


----------



## kcmike

txfeinbergs said:


> Added my name to the petition.


Added my name also.


----------



## Lee L

Not sure why I keep checking this, other to maybe reinforce my belief that in some, hope springs eternal.


----------



## bigrig

Lee L said:


> Not sure why I keep checking this, other to maybe reinforce my belief that in some, hope springs eternal.


Heh...well, the more people we get pushing this issue, the more likely it is to happen. For whatever that is worth.

Matt


----------



## pkscout

bigrig said:


> Heh...well, the more people we get pushing this issue, the more likely it is to happen. For whatever that is worth.


Actually, I think if every single HD-250 owner signed every petition, threatened to leave, and then actually did leave it would make no discerable difference to DirecTV.


----------



## HogarthNH

pkscout said:


> Actually, I think if every single HD-250 owner signed every petition, threatened to leave, and then actually did leave it would make no discerable difference to DirecTV.


Quoted for truth.


----------



## rminsk

pkscout said:


> Actually, I think if every single HD-250 owner signed every petition, threatened to leave, and then actually did leave it would make no discerable difference to DirecTV.


Actually it would... it would make the change to there in-house MPEG-4 DVR that much easier.


----------



## codespy

Conclusion after a previous post: 

Dear Codespy,

Thanks for writing us back. I would like to apologize for any confusion and disappointment this issue may have caused. Please be informed that a software upgrade for HR10-250 receivers did take place on March 7 of last year. This had taken place to fix some technical problems with the certain type of receiver.

As for the 6.2 upgrade which will add the option for grouping (folders) and for other features to load faster, we are yet to set a schedule. Click over to /http://directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html to check for updates or for further information.

Should you have any other concerns, please feel free to write back or call us at 1-531-5000 and our Customer Service Representatives will be happy to assist you. 

Thanks again for writing and for giving us the chance to respond to your concerns.

Sincerely,

xxxxxxxx
DIRECTV Customer Service :down: 

I guess we'll keep the petition going.


----------



## drewcipher

That website hasn't been changed since Feb of '05. Also, it says the HR10-250 won't be getting it.


----------



## sdchrgrboy

drewcipher said:


> That website hasn't been changed since Feb of '05. Also, it says the HR10-250 won't be getting it.


Actually is says at this time. Big difference than won't be getting it. Check your facts first.
*No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time.*


----------



## bidger

Well, the fact that they group the HR10-250 in with all the S1 D-TiVos, which will never get 6.2, isn't exactly a great sign.


----------



## drewcipher

sdchrgrboy said:


> Actually is says at this time. Big difference than won't be getting it. Check your facts first.
> *No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time.*


My point was, even with all the phone calls and letters written, they still haven't bothered to update that page in over a year. Does not look good for us. They might do it eventually. I don't know why they would hold it back. They make the majority of their money on subscription, not hardware, so it shouldn't matter what we use, or what they sell from a money standpoint.


----------



## pkscout

sdchrgrboy said:


> Actually is says at this time. Big difference than won't be getting it. Check your facts first.
> *No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time.*


Man, I want to live in your fantasy world. It has been basically a year since 6.2 was rolled out to the SD units. If 6.2 was coming for the HD units it would be here. It isn't, and it won't ever be. Or rather DirecTV has likely defined "in the future" to mean the year 200000002. Please let us know in 200000002 how the 6.2 upgrade works for you.


----------



## lord-dogbert

Well,

The petition has more steam, here's the stats:

Total number 797 
Total number today 13 
Total number within last week 94 


I'm trying to decide when to close it, I want more numbers but I also want resolution. I was thinking about closing it Sunday night and mailing Monday morning. I still have to finish writing the accompanying letter as well.


----------



## PJO1966

lord-dogbert said:


> Well,
> 
> The petition has more steam, here's the stats:
> 
> Total number 797
> Total number today 13
> Total number within last week 94
> 
> I'm trying to decide when to close it, I want more numbers but I also want resolution. I was thinking about closing it Sunday night and mailing Monday morning. I still have to finish writing the accompanying letter as well.


See if there's any way you can get it to 1000. Are there any other forums you can post in?


----------



## nrc

I doubt that we'll ever get 6.2 unless DTV needs an update to fix something and Tivo convinces them to use 6.2 as basis for the fix.


----------



## sdchrgrboy

pkscout said:


> Man, I want to live in your fantasy world. It has been basically a year since 6.2 was rolled out to the SD units. If 6.2 was coming for the HD units it would be here. It isn't, and it won't ever be. Or rather DirecTV has likely defined "in the future" to mean the year 200000002. Please let us know in 200000002 how the 6.2 upgrade works for you.


Well I have a letter from D* that says it will get it. I will wait until the new cable card tivo comes out and if by then they still haven't been upgraded I will drop D* and screw their 2 yr committment. I can get out of the contract because they haven't held up to theirs.


----------



## codespy

sdchrgrboy said:


> Well I have a letter from D* that says it will get it. I will wait until the new cable card tivo comes out and if by then they still haven't been upgraded I will drop D* and screw their 2 yr committment. I can get out of the contract because they haven't held up to theirs.


OK, at least duplicate the contents of the letter for all to see. We have people on the verge of suicide here.

Also, I petitioned. To all others- lets go and do the same. What do we have to lose? Maybe Rupert will read it late some night before he goes to bed and really feel guilty that we are being shafted. Or not.


----------



## SecureTalk

sdchrgrboy said:


> Well I have a letter from D* that says it will get it. I will wait until the new cable card tivo comes out and if by then they still haven't been upgraded I will drop D* and screw their 2 yr committment. I can get out of the contract because they haven't held up to theirs.


I keep seeing people refer to D* not providing 6.2 as being breach of contract. I never remember D* promising 6.2. As much as I would like to see us get it. Wishing is not enough to make it true.

Is there a link or some where where I can see where D* promised we would get the update. I'll beat the drum also, once I can see something in writing. You know the old saying 'seeing is believing'.


----------



## lord-dogbert

PJO1966 said:


> See if there's any way you can get it to 1000. Are there any other forums you can post in?


I posted on DDB awhile ago and no one ever responded to the thread. I'll start a dedicated thread again here and on DDB. I sent an email to PVRblog and they never responded. I can't think of anywhere else to post. If you guys know places to post then tell them. I just checked and we're at 814. Since my contact knows that we were at 713 Tuesday afternoon it would impress her that another 287 signed in a few days .

Please don't sign twice just to drive the number up, I have to clean up the CSV file before submitting.


----------



## BillyT2002

I think it's time for all 800 of us petition signers to spend a week overflowing the DirecTV forums.directv.com web site with requests for 6.2 on the HR10-250. Heck while we're at it let's also overflow that site with requests for an update to add HMO too. If we're annoying enough, maybe they'll cave. Best to always be polite and annoying at the same time though.  Passive agressive is the way to go.

If nothing else - they'll want to shut us up because they really would rather have people discussing the R15 and non-TIVO DVRs up there than have a bunch of TIVO people.


----------



## joetoronto

i just emailed the petition along with an explanation to my buddy who's a middle manager at directv.

i asked him to give it to the right person.

it can't hurt.


----------



## PJO1966

lord-dogbert said:


> I posted on DDB awhile ago and no one ever responded to the thread. I'll start a dedicated thread again here and on DDB. I sent an email to PVRblog and they never responded. I can't think of anywhere else to post. If you guys know places to post then tell them. I just checked and we're at 814. Since my contact knows that we were at 713 Tuesday afternoon it would impress her that another 287 signed in a few days .
> 
> Please don't sign twice just to drive the number up, I have to clean up the CSV file before submitting.


how about avsforum?


----------



## frankygamer

SecureTalk said:


> I keep seeing people refer to D* not providing 6.2 as being breach of contract. I never remember D* promising 6.2. As much as I would like to see us get it. Wishing is not enough to make it true.
> 
> Is there a link or some where where I can see where D* promised we would get the update. I'll beat the drum also, once I can see something in writing. You know the old saying 'seeing is believing'.


D* promised me 6.2 multiple times. Have it documented in (several ) emails. May not be legal breach of contract but misleading/deceitful/lie, yes!


----------



## sdchrgrboy

SecureTalk said:


> I keep seeing people refer to D* not providing 6.2 as being breach of contract. I never remember D* promising 6.2. As much as I would like to see us get it. Wishing is not enough to make it true.
> 
> Is there a link or some where where I can see where D* promised we would get the update. I'll beat the drum also, once I can see something in writing. You know the old saying 'seeing is believing'.


Here's part of the email I received on 10/22/05:

Thank you for writing. We are sorry to hear of your frustration regarding your HR10-250 receiver. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs.* The HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get this upgrade, but the date has yet to be determined *. To find out more, please visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.

In addition, I understand your concern about how our transition to MPEG-4 transmission will affect any MPEG-2 equipment you may have. Let me reassure you that most customers will be able to use their MPEG-2 equipment for quite some time.

At this time, our current HD programming will continue to be broadcast using the MPEG-2 standard; MPEG-4 technology will be used only to provide local HD programming in select cities. (Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Houston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Tampa and Washington, D.C. are expected to launch this year, with more to be added throughout the next year.)


----------



## TyroneShoes

That statement seems to be saying that any non-LIL station they add in HD will be MPEG2.


----------



## lord-dogbert

WOW

Almost there: 
Total number 895 
Total number today 93 
Total number within last week 193 

Excellent repsonse now, hoping for 1k which is symbolic for what some of us paid for the box. I wonder how many HR10-250's are in service? Probably 4-5000 max due to price and HD not in the main stream. If we hit 1k then we have a significant percntage of customers who signed the petition. 

Some companies take action with 10 percent unhappiness rating. We've doubled that rate at 5000 boxes in service.


----------



## MeStinkBAD

I jest recently got a HR10-250 and was pretty shocked it was still using the 3.1.5 software. Really hurts it IMO. To be honest I think my HDVR2 is the better DVR thanks to it's version 6.2 software. I'm used to having groups and other conviences with the 6.2 update that are left out of the HR10-250.

Where is this petition to sign? I really kinda need that update. Honestly I don't think it'll do much good but it's worth a shot anyhow.


----------



## lord-dogbert

We are #4 on ipetitions:  

1. Early Retirement for Paramedics - A Public Safety 
2. Kern Specific Plan Marginalizes OHV Use 
3. Sauvons Titi le Singe de Grez en Bouère ! 
4. DirecTv to release 6.2 software update for HD Tivo 
5. Sysops allowed to take SS from cheaters computer 


I also posted to AVSForum as well.

1 & 2 are pretty important, no idea what 3 is.


----------



## vernsh

Conspiracy theories aside; I believe D* really wants to continue to support the HR10 for the foreseeable future. The mpeg-4 HR20 is still many months away and since they seem to be having major quality problems with the R15, I would suggest that there may still be a lot bugs to be worked out in their new NDS software. http://www.wkblog.com/ and http://www.wkblog.com/2005/12/the_weaknees_r10_r15_compariso.html

I'm assuming the delay in 6.2 implementation is for technical reasons and that we will get the update. Why would they want to tick-off their up-scale customer base? Eventually we will all have go to mpeg-4 if we want more HD content but if we have to buy new receivers and new antennas, why not take a look at DISH or (in my area) Comcast if we feel D* has screwed us over? I'm sure they know they're not the only game in town.


----------



## joetoronto

i just received this from my buddy who works at directv.....

*Hey Joe,

I am glad you sent this to me. I don't know what good it will do, but I will certainly forward this to the marketing group. I already gave them a heads up when Ken posted it, but the signed petition will probably help.

I will let you if I can get more information. *

we have a shot, that's all i'm saying.


----------



## codespy

Thanks Joe, keep us up to date on future developments. It helps when you know someone that works for the big pig.


----------



## joetoronto

codespy said:


> Thanks Joe, keep us up to date on future developments. It helps when you know someone that works for the big pig.


lol, yes it does.


----------



## lord-dogbert

joetoronto said:


> i just received this from my buddy who works at directv.....
> 
> *Hey Joe,
> 
> I am glad you sent this to me. I don't know what good it will do, but I will certainly forward this to the marketing group. I already gave them a heads up when Ken posted it, but the signed petition will probably help.
> 
> I will let you if I can get more information. *
> 
> we have a shot, that's all i'm saying.


Cool, Thanks
I'll PM you my contact, maybe they can work together. Please don't forward her info to anyone else though.


----------



## JaserLet

I've already signed the petition.

I currently use one HR10-250, one DVR39, and three DVR40's.

If the HR10-250 gets the 6.2 update, I would buy a few to replace the DVR40s for the ASTC HD OTA feature alone. But as it stands, the HR10-250 is just too damn slow after even one month of use. It doesn't feel "that bad" when it's new or after a factory reset, but after a month of use, it sloooows waaaay doooown. 

My DVR39/DVR40 boxes still feel fast, and they got the 6.2 update a long time ago, no resets, no cleanups needed. They just work.


----------



## AbMagFab

joetoronto said:


> i just received this from my buddy who works at directv.....
> 
> *Hey Joe,
> 
> I am glad you sent this to me. I don't know what good it will do, but I will certainly forward this to the marketing group. I already gave them a heads up when Ken posted it, but the signed petition will probably help.
> 
> I will let you if I can get more information. *
> 
> we have a shot, that's all i'm saying.


"I don't know what good it will do"

This is the most accurate information to date. Clearly, they have had no intention of giving us 6.x for the HD Tivo.

I hope this helps some of the other people on this board finally realize it.


----------



## frankygamer

Here is the most honest answer I've received from D* out of many, many emails and discussions.

_Thank you for writing back. I apologize that we were not able to fully
answer your questions. At this time we do not guarantee that "Continued
Support" means that we will keep providing Software updates for your HD-DVR
receiver, however we will continue to support HDTV with the DVR function.
With "Continued Support" that may entail swapping your receiver for a MPEG-4
HD-DVR. I wish that we had more information on HR10-250 TiVo 6.2 upgrade,
however I have not been provided with this information at this time._


----------



## codespy

frankygamer said:


> Here is the most honest answer I've received from D* out of many, many emails and discussions.
> 
> _Thank you for writing back. I apologize that we were not able to fully
> answer your questions. At this time we do not guarantee that "Continued
> Support" means that we will keep providing Software updates for your HD-DVR
> receiver, however we will continue to support HDTV with the DVR function.
> With "Continued Support" that may entail swapping your receiver for a MPEG-4
> HD-DVR. I wish that we had more information on HR10-250 TiVo 6.2 upgrade,
> however I have not been provided with this information at this time._


Awww, Man! Thanks a lot. Thats just like getting divorce papers!


----------



## AnnZ

The R-40 that I got in the TiVo blowout promo. received the 6.2 upgrade last night. I signed the petition for the HR10-250 upgrade. Mine also is veeeerrrryyyy sssllllooooowwww!


----------



## joetoronto

lord-dogbert said:


> Cool, Thanks
> I'll PM you my contact, maybe they can work together. Please don't forward her info to anyone else though.


no way, of course not, lord-dogbert.


----------



## bocktar

I just signed the petition, even though I'm resigned to the fact that this is never going to happen. D* needs to make a significant gesture or it's splitsville for me once the Series III hits the streets.


----------



## lord-dogbert

1015 signatures as of a few moments ago. I already went through the database and cleaned out the dups and the firstname: Directv lastname: Sux entries. We only lost 10 signatures to the wise @sses which is good by me.

Tomorrow night, 2-14-06 at 2000 Pacific I will pull the database one last time and get it ready to send Wednesday morning. I did screen shots of the ipetition home page showing that we were the #3 and #4 top petition during the last weekend. I'm going to send the signatures, screen shots, links to the forums involved and a summary letter. 

This has been pretty exciting watching the number of supporters grow, I hope this is all for good.


----------



## joetoronto

good luck buddy, no one can say you didn't try.


----------



## Wirelezz

I signed, my wife signed, my kids signed, my dog signed...

Good thing we all have our own email addys!


----------



## bigrig

joetoronto said:


> good luck buddy, no one can say you didn't try.


Heh...yeah, thanks for your efforts, Dogbert! :up:


----------



## joetoronto

Wirelezz said:


> I signed, my wife signed, my kids signed, my dog signed...
> 
> Good thing we all have our own email addys!


lol, that's the spirit. :up:


----------



## sotapoppy

Hey- maybe I should have signed twice since I have 2 HR10s. BTW they are sitting side by side getting along quite well together. In fact, just a couple months ago they gave birth to a new offspring. However, it's a little bit deformed and has already developed some quirky habits. It's name is R15.  

Thanks for the effort lord-dogbert.


----------



## richierich

You have to have a different email address each time you sign up so I guess you could use your business email address.


----------



## tomr

It amazes me a piece of electronics with so many problems is still on the market in its original form. HDMI problems, Picture drop-out, sound pops, slow response from the remote, Painfully slow when setting up a season pass or on-the-fly recording, missed recording at the beginning of the show.

It doesn't take long to develop a list of MAJOR problems. All are well documented here. The problem is what choice do I have. None, zero, ziltch. Charter cable here does not even offer HD. No one else allows to record 2 channels at the same time and watch a third. 

My options are very limited. If the new DirecTV HD recorder does not offer any improvement I'm sure I keep using the what I have. 6.2 won't fix all the problems but it certainly would help.

Who the hell knows if we get 6.2. I certainly won't hold my breath. 

Very disappointing indeed.


----------



## udecker

I just got off the phone with a Cust. Service rep, asking about getting the HD network feeds. I asked her about the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. She said at first "I think that's rolling out tonight, actually - hold on." And then said "no, but it will be started in the next few days." 

I asked her to verify that this was for the HD DirecTV Tivo, HR10-250, and she said yes, that it was.

Don't know if anything changed, or if she just didn't know what she was talking about - but she did "look it up" while I waited.

I hope the petitions pay off.


----------



## rminsk

udecker said:


> I just got off the phone with a Cust. Service rep, asking about getting the HD network feeds. I asked her about the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. She said at first "I think that's rolling out tonight, actually - hold on." And then said "no, but it will be started in the next few days."
> 
> I asked her to verify that this was for the HD DirecTV Tivo, HR10-250, and she said yes, that it was.
> 
> Don't know if anything changed, or if she just didn't know what she was talking about - but she did "look it up" while I waited.
> 
> I hope the petitions pay off.


YOU FOOL! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this: 'Never believe a DirecTV CSR when a DirecTiVo is on the line"

Seriously there are several people on this board that have contacts and we would know if it was about to roll out.


----------



## JaserLet

What the CSR meant is that the 6.2 update is ready to roll... right into the recycle bin.


----------



## codespy

udecker said:


> I just got off the phone with a Cust. Service rep, asking about getting the HD network feeds. I asked her about the 6.2 upgrade for the HR10-250. She said at first "I think that's rolling out tonight, actually - hold on." And then said "no, but it will be started in the next few days."
> 
> I asked her to verify that this was for the HD DirecTV Tivo, HR10-250, and she said yes, that it was.


The update is for the H20. Scheduled for release on Feb. 21st, 2006. Should be version X0F06. The current problem apparently when changing channels, there is brief pixellizing that may occur. This software update is supposed to correct that.
There are no new current developments on the 6.2 for the HR10-250.

Again, I've said it before, lets all pool our money together and hire that 16 year-old whiz who knows everything to make the upgrade we all want!


----------



## Digital Video

We should start a money pool as a prize for getting it working, akin to the Windows on Intel Macs contest. Unfortunately I can't post a link, but you should be able to Google it.

Edit: Also, I just bought the HR10-250 and it will arrive today. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I should have stuck with my HDVR2


----------



## Lee L

Well, teh HDVR2 cannot record HD, so if you want that, you are pretty much stuck. It is not that bad if you do not do much live TV watching. However, since the SD models have 6.2 and you can see the speed increase is so dramatic, it makes it all the more tantlizing.


----------



## bbodin

Digital Video said:


> Edit: Also, I just bought the HR10-250 and it will arrive today. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I should have stuck with my HDVR2


I just got one myself...only had it a few weeks and I'm not at all disappointed (my HD reciever finally blew and I had to replace it, so chose the HD tivo).

I lived with the SD tivo with the version 3 software for years and it was slow, but I managed just fine with it. I had upgraded to include a larger HDD in that SD tivo as well, so that didn't help speed. Season pass re-arranging was miserable, but the rest of the slowness (guide, moving through the lists, etc.) was manageable and I got used to it. In fact even after 6.2 was released I still had the old version because I thought my modem was blown. Only after my HD tivo came in was I able to succesfully update to 6.2 on the SD tivo (ironic, huh?).

Anyways, the SD tivo is now in the bedroom (and blazing fast with the 6.2 version) and my HD tivo is my main unit in the living room and behaves at the same speed as my SD tivo did for 3 years (faster even since I haven't upgraded the HDD in the HD version yet), so net-net is it functions just as I was used to for the past 3 years except now I can tivo HD 

Looking at the speed and folders options in my bedroom though, does make me wish I could get that on the HD tivo...especially when I end up upgrading the HDD.


----------



## joetoronto

Digital Video said:


> Edit: Also, I just bought the HR10-250 and it will arrive today. After reading this thread, I'm wondering if I should have stuck with my HDVR2


not all HR10-250's have problems, Digital Video. remember, you pretty much only hear of the ones that DO have a problem.

mine has been fine but i'm not using the HDMI port, i'm using component.


----------



## tomr

joetoronto said:


> not all HR10-250's have problems, Digital Video. remember, you pretty much only hear of the ones that DO have a problem.
> 
> mine has been fine but i'm not using the HDMI port, i'm using component.


I would disagree. ALL the HR10-250's have the same inherent problems. Slow, Slow, Slow. Channel surfing is agonizing. Start making season passes, filling the hard drive, etc. It WILL slow to a CRAWL when changing, editing, moving season passes.

With the exception of the HDMI hardware problem ALL the problems I have mentioned seem to be software related. OK, maybe faster hardware will help, BUT most of the slow speed has been attributed to the database design.

It's also amazing that a clear and delete takes an hour to perform.


----------



## bbodin

joetoronto said:


> not all HR10-250's have problems, Digital Video. remember, you pretty much only hear of the ones that DO have a problem.
> 
> mine has been fine but i'm not using the HDMI port, i'm using component.


I agree. Only had it a few weeks, but no HDMI problems, no slow remote response problem (though I'm using a universal remote), no picture drops at all for Sat or OTA, and slowness is limited to the "season pass" part (though my recorder is full, my season pass list is relatively small at the moment).

In short, it behaves identical to my SD tivo (version 3 software).


----------



## Lee L

I have definitely learned to set up season passes when I can do something else and to only change the order when I am going to bed for the night or leaving.


----------



## bbodin

tomr said:


> I would disagree. ALL the HR10-250's have the same inherent problems. Slow, Slow, Slow. Channel surfing is agonizing. Start making season passes, filling the hard drive, etc. It WILL slow to a CRAWL when changing, editing, moving season passes.
> 
> With the exception of the HDMI hardware problem ALL the problems I have mentioned seem to be software related. OK, maybe faster hardware will help, BUT most of the slow speed has been attributed to the database design.
> 
> It's also amazing that a clear and delete takes an hour to perform.


and I would disagree with you. All of the problems you mentioned with the exception of the slowness, I do NOT have. And the slowness isn't unbearable other than when you add or delete a season pass (which isn't an everyday occurance).

My HDD is full...I don't have a ton of season passes, and I'm very aware that slows things down, but its not any slower than the SD tivos who had the same problem in the version 3 software and I loved that thing for 3 years.


----------



## bigrig

tomr said:


> I would disagree. ALL the HR10-250's have the same inherent problems. Slow, Slow, Slow. Channel surfing is agonizing. Start making season passes, filling the hard drive, etc. It WILL slow to a CRAWL when changing, editing, moving season passes.


Slowness isn't a failure, though, more like an annoyance.

I recommend everyone hack their tivo and use the TivoWeb interface, it can do all of these things without the 10 minute wait. :up: Gunnyman's Zipper is supposed to make it pretty easy.

Matt


----------



## tomr

bbodin said:


> My HDD is full...I don't have a ton of season passes, and I'm very aware that slows things down, but its not any slower than the SD tivos who had the same problem in the version 3 software and I loved that thing for 3 years.


The season passes seem to be the key here. If you don't have many then the problems don't seem to exist. I have 32 season passes and over 50 items in the to do list. Some of my season passes have multiple showings i.e. 80 showings in the the upcoming episode list but only 10 may be selected for recording. I also have 2 wish list record all season passes.

I purchased a second 250 to split the recordings up to help things. Right now I only have 5 season passes and it works fine.

The harder the H10 has to sift for recordings and conflicts the slower it gets.

When I have back-to-back recordings on the same channel, SOMETIMES I lose the first 20-30 seconds of the second show. IT seems to mess up only with back-to-back recordings and two shows being recorded at the same time. It has been suggested the H10 is slow to respond because of the activity going on. The same with remote not responding. I will push and push watch the light on the H10 put nothing. Then all of a sudden wham, it's possessed as it carries out the commands.

I don't believe it's a question of IF it has problems but WHEN.

If I had a better option I would have given up a long time ago. Even as agravating this has been, nothing is better. I have no cable option.


----------



## Lee L

bigrig said:


> Slowness isn't a failure, though, more like an annoyance.
> 
> I recommend everyone hack their tivo and use the TivoWeb interface, it can do all of these things without the 10 minute wait. :up: Gunnyman's Zipper is supposed to make it pretty easy.
> 
> Matt


I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.


----------



## joetoronto

i only have 4 season passes, 3 by title and on by actor.

sometimes the guide takes a few seconds to completely fill up, sometimes it's immediate, like right now.

i don't let the drive get too full though, i leave no more than 12 HD programs, mostly movies on it.

i've never experienced slowness with the remote.


----------



## bigrig

Lee L said:


> I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.


No, it's a graphical web interface, pretty user friendly.

You can get an idea of how it works here - http://www.keegan.org/jeff/tivo/tivowebsnapshot/ui/index.html


----------



## kimsan

bigrig said:


> :up: Gunnyman's Zipper is supposed to make it pretty easy.
> 
> Matt


It does indeed make the hack easy. I could never be bothered in the past. Tivoweb is a much more efficient way to change SP lineups.

But putting "Gunnyman's Zipper" and "easy" in the same sentence might just get him attention from a whole different breed of hacker, don't you think?


----------



## kimsan

Lee L said:


> I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.


The Zipper [procedure is pretty straightforward. If you can follow instructions (ever done a drive back or upgrade?) it's not difficult at all.

Tivoweb puts a browser based graphic interface on your PC. THink Tivo peanut plus a whole lot more.

There are other tools you can add to get you add MRV-ish capability, but the specifics are never spelled out on TCF.

If HR10-250s ever get 6.2, enabling HMO/MRV would be a snap as it is now with HDVR2s and others.


----------



## tomr

bigrig said:


> Slowness isn't a failure, though, more like an annoyance.
> 
> Matt


A very, very fine line. I consider it a programming failure. If you had a database program and had to wait minutes to access data. You would consider it a failure.


----------



## Lee L

kimsan said:


> The Zipper [procedure is pretty straightforward. If you can follow instructions (ever done a drive back or upgrade?) it's not difficult at all.
> 
> Tivoweb puts a browser based graphic interface on your PC. THink Tivo peanut plus a whole lot more.
> 
> There are other tools you can add to get you an MRV-ish capability, but the specifics aren't spelled out on TCF.
> 
> If HR10-250s ever get 6.2, enabling HMO/MRV would be a snap as it is now with HDVR2s and others.


Ok, that is what I thought. I added drives to both my SD and HD units and I am quite comfortable with PCs so actually doing it is not a problem. I was just wondering what I got for my effort. Ideally, I would like to do MRV and I was thinking that was not possible with TiVoWeb so I guess I will have to look around the other site some again.


----------



## pdawg17

kimsan said:


> It does indeed make the hack easy. I could never be bothered in the past. Tivoweb is a much more efficient way to change SP lineups.
> 
> But putting "Gunnyman's Zipper" and "easy" in the same sentence might just get him attention from a whole different breed of hacker, don't you think?


So the zipper works for the HD Tivo too, huh? For some reason I thought it was only for the SD Tivo...


----------



## cheer

rminsk said:


> YOU FOOL! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this: 'Never believe a DirecTV CSR when a DirecTiVo is on the line"


So then I guess you're saying that it's inconceivable that we'll get the 6.2 update.


----------



## cheer

Lee L said:


> I have thought about it, but what does the interface look like when you use this? IS it some command line shell on a PC, web page? Is it hard to use. There is lots of info on how to do it, but not much on what you get, at least for someone who knows little about what a hacked machine can do already.


It's so easy to use that you'll be amazed. Rearranging season passes takes almost no time at all.

If you can use yahoo.com, you can use tivowebplus. And it gives you some nifty features, too -- stuff you don't know you need but you'll never be able to live without once you have it. (Like the poorly-named "recording history" for example -- use mine constantly.)


----------



## JTAnderson

If its really easy to install the hack, I might be tempted. Does the TiVo support 802.11b (or g) USB adapters with this hack?


----------



## kimsan

pdawg17 said:


> So the zipper works for the HD Tivo too, huh? For some reason I thought it was only for the SD Tivo...


Jump to ~December 05 in the zipper thread. It just took a little longer.


----------



## kimsan

JTAnderson said:


> If its really easy to install the hack, I might be tempted. Does the TiVo support 802.11b (or g) USB adapters with this hack?


USB adapters are supported...no other way out of the box. Wireless requires help. Since 3.1.5 software had no network support at all, native MRV and wireless just don't exist.

That said, you can use and FA-120 USB->ethernet adapter and then go wireless from there.

Plan on reading a bit. Just let me state clearly, networking an HR10-250 is easy via the Zipper and wireless G is do-able *after* networking is turned on. It's just about as easy. If you don't mind what feels like redundant pieces, don't let the added cost bother you, and just stick with recommended pieces, it's also easy.


----------



## GaryD9

I have a friend who works for the Maryland AG office. I was talking to him about the D* HR10-250, 6.2 upgrades, and HD-Lite. As part of this conversation, I showed him the email I sent to D* which clearly implied a condition of the 6.2 software upgrade on my purchasing that unit, as well as the reply from D* stating that the HR10-250 would be getting that upgrade. As well, I showed him the "stophdlite.com" web site, and the related quoted material from the FCC, FTC, etc. 

According this friend (who asked that I not identify him/her) I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, but that the AG's office would likely open an investigation into D* deceptive marketing, false advertising, and something else (forget the term) having to do with making false promises in order to force a contract to be signed.

While I currently don't plan on such a complaint right now, I might have a change of heart if/when summer comes and goes and there's no 6.2 upgrade. (Most of the HD I watch is OTA...) 

Take care
Gary


----------



## tammyandlee

With the channel not available bug and the slowness I am looking at getting the E*622.
I guess at least I got a couple of years out of this thing. One thing that annoys me is I would swear when I was at CES in Vegas when the HR10-250 was being displayed to the world it had folders.


----------



## aphex187

6.2 will never come. DirecTV will just force us to upgrade to their HD-DVR. Then in 5 years - none of us will care about the HR10-250 and the 6.2 upgrade. Sad, but true.


----------



## frankygamer

Hopefully I won't care about 6.2 in 1 year when I'm running 7.x+ on a Series 3.


----------



## GalenMD

GaryD9 said:


> ...I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, ...


With your letter, I'm sure D* would gladly let you out of your contract. In fact, they probably couldn't care less. Good luck in trying to go after them for anything else. Any case such as this would only hold water if they made a blanket announcement to all HD users.


----------



## Redux

GalenMD said:


> With your letter, I'm sure D* would gladly let you out of your contract. In fact, they probably couldn't care less.


I'm sure you're right. DTV's alternative would be to prove their case to our credit card companies, once we dispute the charges. They'll likely just let us go, en masse, with a good riddance, and go on and prosper, for awhile, with their inferior product.


----------



## AbMagFab

GaryD9 said:


> I have a friend who works for the Maryland AG office. I was talking to him about the D* HR10-250, 6.2 upgrades, and HD-Lite. As part of this conversation, I showed him the email I sent to D* which clearly implied a condition of the 6.2 software upgrade on my purchasing that unit, as well as the reply from D* stating that the HR10-250 would be getting that upgrade. As well, I showed him the "stophdlite.com" web site, and the related quoted material from the FCC, FTC, etc.
> 
> According this friend (who asked that I not identify him/her) I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, but that the AG's office would likely open an investigation into D* deceptive marketing, false advertising, and something else (forget the term) having to do with making false promises in order to force a contract to be signed.
> 
> While I currently don't plan on such a complaint right now, I might have a change of heart if/when summer comes and goes and there's no 6.2 upgrade. (Most of the HD I watch is OTA...)
> 
> Take care
> Gary


Why would you bother? I never understand it when people go in, knowing they won't get what they want, and plan to sue/complain later.

How about you just get the HR10-250 now, enjoy it for a while, and then either:
1) Keep it
2) Swap it for the new DirecTV HD DVR
3) Switch to the Tivo Series 3 when it's available
4) Go away and stop creating drama

?


----------



## GaryD9

AbMagFab said:


> Why would you bother? I never understand it when people go in, knowing they won't get what they want, and plan to sue/complain later.


I'd only "bother" if 6.2 never appears (within a reasonable time-frame) AND D* refuses to let me out of my contract without penalties. I fully expected, and still expect, 6.2 to appear for the HR10-250. As well, I had no good way to know that D* was crippling HD until AFTER I started paying for it...


----------



## drewcipher

By the time reasonable time frame comes along and you get around to suing, you will already be out of your contract. They can just keep saying that there are issues and they can not release it. All they have to do is continue to say when it is ready it will be released, even if when they say that the HR10-250 is so obsolete we wont have them anymore.


----------



## Bananfish

GaryD9 said:


> I have a friend who works for the Maryland AG office. I was talking to him about the D* HR10-250, 6.2 upgrades, and HD-Lite. As part of this conversation, I showed him the email I sent to D* which clearly implied a condition of the 6.2 software upgrade on my purchasing that unit, as well as the reply from D* stating that the HR10-250 would be getting that upgrade. As well, I showed him the "stophdlite.com" web site, and the related quoted material from the FCC, FTC, etc.
> 
> According this friend (who asked that I not identify him/her) I'd have a VERY easy time of it if I were to send a formal complaint into his/her office, and not only would D* be forced to let me out of any contracts, but that the AG's office would likely open an investigation into D* deceptive marketing, false advertising, and something else (forget the term) having to do with making false promises in order to force a contract to be signed.
> 
> While I currently don't plan on such a complaint right now, I might have a change of heart if/when summer comes and goes and there's no 6.2 upgrade. (Most of the HD I watch is OTA...)
> 
> Take care
> Gary


Your email only "implied" a condition, right, it didn't explicitly state it? And your email didn't include a date certain by which D* was required to provide 6.2, did it? And of course, every day that you continue to use your HR10-250, you continue to build a laches defense and a waiver of condition defense for D* (and possibly some other obscure legal defenses as well - can you say "equitable estoppel?"). Friend or no friend, I'm skeptical that you have a legal leg to stand on, and it gets worse every day.

That said, if you're trying to get out of your commitment at some point, that email might cause D* to allow you to do it. Good luck.

(Is the term you're looking for "fraudulent inducement?")


----------



## joetoronto

this is getting way too legal for me.  

oh ya, how do you know when a lawyer's lying? 















his lips are moving.


----------



## rezdog

Any updates on this?


----------



## sirfergy

I just got an HDTV and really want the HD TiVo but not if it's still running 3.1.


----------



## jasch

rezdog said:


> Any updates on this?


Do you really expect any? <grin> Be sure that when (and if) any updates are available you will hear them not only here, but on hundreds of sites...


----------



## Mark Lopez

sirfergy said:


> I just got an HDTV and really want the HD TiVo but not if it's still running 3.1.


And just what (important) feature(s) would a later version give you that would prevent you from enjoying recording HD with 3.1?


----------



## sirfergy

Hacking to enable MRV. That's the one key feature I need. I guess I could use it only for HD content, but $400 seems like an awful lot just for that.


----------



## jasch

Mark Lopez said:


> And just what (important) feature(s) would a later version give you that would prevent you from enjoying recording HD with 3.1?


Well, folders and the new database scheme would be my pick. MRV for SD (or HD content between 250's) would be nice also.


----------



## lord-dogbert

I've been swamped with my day job and just sent the petitions today. The spreadsheet has a total of 1106 good signatures. I'll advise once she receives everything and what I find out. 

Might be dead by then but who knows.


----------



## Juppers

Mark Lopez said:


> And just what (important) feature(s) would a later version give you that would prevent you from enjoying recording HD with 3.1?


A guide that loads a single screen in less than 30 to 45 seconds, recordings that don't start late without any reason at all, folders to better organize and find the recordings you want to watch, and hopefully a native passthrough for output format. All but the last one was given to the standard definition tivo based PVRs about a year ago, and native passthrough doesn't apply to them. I don't think the customers that paid up to 1000% more (yes, I said ONE THOUSAND PERCENT more) should not expect the same features and functionality that the lower end sister platform has. Given the financials released the other day, you'd think DTV would want to make what they consider their BEST CUSTOMERS happy. With most of the HR10-250 owners being early adopters and part of that 33% of their customer base that generates 63% of their profit.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## codespy

Just ordered a 10-250 for my brother. This retention CSR seemed the sharpest I've ever talked to at DTV. He indicated he has 3 HR10-250's. I questioned the 6.2 upgrade and he said WILL NEVER HAPPEN. DTV and Tivo are so separated that there will be no more upgrades of any sort for Tivo based DTV receivers. Sorry to rain on everyone's parade. Keep expectations low.


----------



## dogdoctor

Here is the best information that I can gather on the 6.2 upgrade. It is near the bottom. I cannot even begin to fathom the customer service responce to the first letter.

_MY Orignal Letter_
To whom it may concern:
I have recently purchased the HD Tivo to upgrade my Directv system. I didso knowing that Directv will be phasing out the Tivo in favor of the Directv Plus HD DVR. I think that is unfortunate, especially if you read the Tivo Community Forums - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=287516 - this is a thread that illustrates that you may seriously loose some HD costomers when the new HDTivo Series 3 comes out with cable cards.
While I know that the Tivo software is in direct competition to the Directv Plus DVR software, I sincerely hope that Directv will continue to support their HD Tivo users as the HR10-250 are great piece of equipment. It would be an extremely good sign of faith, and moral booster of all of those that paid $1000 for their HD Tivos (and those of us that didn't) that Directv would at minimum upgrade the Tivo software and networking abilities. It is one thing to phase out the sales of such Tivo equipment, but to completely abandon their support and operation is a completely separate issue (to which Directv has vowed not to do so).
Many HD Tivo users have heard in through the grapevine that there is a software upgrade in the works. I hope so. The SD Tivos were upgraded and created many happy customers, myself included. I hope that Directv is working on an upgrade for the near future of the hr10-250 (I mean 2-3 months). If Directv doesn't do so by the release of the series 3 cable HDTivo I truely suspect Directv will loose many HD customers - usually the higher paying customers. If Directv does release a Tivo upgrade, there would be an extemely happy number of customers.
I myself don't even have one yet and I am writing this letter in efforts to convey both a feeling of lack of support of very expensive pieces of equipment (felt by many), and in hopes that someone could give a definative response to the release of an update or not. Please forward this email on to technical support if needed.
For a piece of equipment being sold at a starting price of 599 today and increasing to an estimated 799 tomorrow (3/1/06), I would hope that it came with the most current version of software. I am disheartened to hear that it is 3.1, when there is a seriously upgraded version out there at 6.2 for the SD Tivos.
I like Directv and Tivo and the HR10-250 is a great match. I do understand the business aspect and need to move to new DVR platform but I think Directv underestimates the number of people who will leave if Tivo Series 3 comes out before and upgrade in sofware for the HR10-250. Please confirm or deny with technical support the release of an update and if one is to occur, the projected release date.

_Their orginal reply_
Dear Mr. XXX,

Thanks for writing. While DIRECTV has introduced a new DVR, we will continue to support the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo and standalone TiVo service. If you are using the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo or a TiVo stand alone you can continue using your existing equipment.

Please be informed that the new software (DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade) will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Gary
DIRECTV Customer Service

_My followup_
Gary & Directv Customer Service,

I want to thank you for the quick form letter reply. However, this does not instill confidence to me to believe that you actually read the letters mailed to you from the customers. I specifically stated (see letter below) that I was interested in the knowledge and techical support about a version 6.2 tivo software upgrade for the HR10-250.

If you read the link provided in the form letter from Gary, http://directv.com/see/landing/dvr_upgrade.html, it specifically state near the bottom: " Are all DIRECTV DVRs receiving this upgrade? No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time. " Thus my question posed to Directv once and now again still remains unanswered: will the HR10 ever receive an upgrade to the 6.2 software, and if so when? At this time is a very vague generalization.

I would appreciate a proper response to the letter I originally sent to you and as stated before please contact your technical support department if you do not know the answer.
If a customer puts forth the time to write a polite letter questioning services or upgrades, I would sincerly hope that the company to which the customer is purchasing equipment and services would put forth the time to research the proper reply. I look forward to reading the reply.

_And Lastly_
Dear Mr. XXX,

Thanks for writing. We sincerely apologize for the miscommunication. *For your convenience, let me inform you that the DIRECTV HR10-250 will get the 6.2 software upgrade but the date has yet to be determined.*
The new software will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.

Current models of the DIRECTV DVR do not offer a home media option or have active USB ports. Today, this feature is only available on the TiVo Series 2 standalone models.

You might be interested to know that DIRECTV is launching a new advanced technology system, the DIRECTV Home Media Center. Our new Home Media Center will allow you to share, move and view content from room to room, throughout the house. It will also have DVR functionality and the capability to support both standard-and high-definition signals. We expect to have more information about this new advanced receiver by the end of this year, so please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest updates.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our service.

Sincerely,

Arlene
DIRECTV Customer Service

As much as I would like to believe Arlene that there will be a software update, I just don't know how much faith I have. In the end, at the miminum I have an email stating that it will occur, just that we have no set timeline for that upgrade to occur. A fat lot of good that will do me


----------



## joetoronto

lol, they mentioned the "phone line" even though updates come via the satellite.


----------



## maharg18

joetoronto said:


> lol, they mentioned the "phone line" even though updates come via the satellite.


To be fair, while the update is downloaded via satellite, the update process is initiated by the phone connection.


----------



## frankygamer

*Today *

Dear Mr. xyz,

Thank you for writing back. As stated in the previous message, there is no scheduled date for the DIRECTV HR10-250 to receive the 6.2 download. At this time, I have no information regarding plans to provide this upgrade for the HD DVR. As such, we cannot state whether or not it will be provided. I'm sorry for any disappointment, but please stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news about our service.

*October*

Dear Mr. xyz,

Thanks for writing. I'm sorry for whatever inconvenience or confusion this
has caused. The HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get upgrade. But the date has
yet to be determined.

Thanks again for writing and we do apologize for the inconvenience. Stay
tuned to DIRECTV.com for more updates and information about our service.


----------



## sirfergy

DTV has no incentive to provide 6.2. Why would they offer it when they have their own HD DVR coming out soon?


----------



## Juppers

sirfergy said:


> DTV has no incentive to provide 6.2. Why would they offer it when they have their own HD DVR coming out soon?


Customer satisfaction, longer life of existing equipment to spread out equipment replacement costs which will be extremely high over the next 2 or 3 years. DTV has financial and promotional incentives to provide updated software for the ONLY HD DVR they currently offer.


----------



## drewcipher

They really have no financial reason not to give it. There unit is not out yet. We will have to switch to their unit someday, or go with some othe MPEG4 unit. It is better for them to make us happy if they can. Personally, it is a race for me. When I see more about FIOS(and it is available), Series 3 is released and does what I want, versus keeping the HR10-250 or switching to D* HD DVR, I will make a choice what I do. IF they don't give me 6.2, then I would have to say that I won't trust their service enough to stay with D*. Honestly, I can get more HD channels elsewhere, and I would love to get rid of DSL and switch back to cable modem. I came to D* for 2 reasons only...TIVO and NFL Sunday ticket, and since D* has added that stupid Superfan thing so I have to pay extra for HD games, even though I pay for HD programming, I believe I will be cancelling that. So there is virtually no reason for me to stay with D* forever, though the 6.2 update would appease me to stay for a couple more years to make sure I get my money's worth out of my HR10s After that, I will reevaluate their software and maybe they can keep me again.


----------



## ydtrack

Well I have been dealing with a few problems with my HR10-250 and the tech I spoke to last night said the 6.2 software was due to be delivered in March, so I will have to see what happens.


----------



## TyroneShoes

If we see it, that to me is a vote of confidence in the NDS box. If DTV was not confident about the features and reliability of the NDS box, they would certainly not make the Tivo boxes even better, or the NDS box would look that much worse by comparison.


----------



## codespy

Continuing on with my previous post, my 'knowledgable' retention boy indicated they did a test run of the 6.2 software to some tech employees with the 10-250. The downloads to the units caused the hard drives to crash. They are focusing on the DTV standalone DVR's now with their own bugs to work out. Maybe he's blowing smoke up my you know what, but maybe he's not.


----------



## Philly Bill

sirfergy said:


> DTV has no incentive to provide 6.2. Why would they offer it when they have their own HD DVR coming out soon?


They know that eventually - a trickle at first - everyone will switch on their own to the DTV DVR because it will do a lot of things the TIVO one won't.


----------



## jiserrab

ydtrack said:


> Well I have been dealing with a few problems with my HR10-250 and the tech I spoke to last night said the 6.2 software was due to be delivered in March, so I will have to see what happens.


Yeah they told me that too, March *2005*

See my email below to/from D* starting from the bottom with my first correspondence.



> Dear Mr. _Customer_,
> 
> Thanks for writing us back. Yes, HR10-250 receivers was upgraded on Mar 7, 2005, however, most get it by Mar 18, 2005. Upgrade usually occurs 2 AM PT daily (after TiVo daily call).
> 
> Since your HR10-250 is very slow when trying to schedule recordings and it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email, please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.
> 
> Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Kristine
> DIRECTV Customer Service
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Original Message Follows:
> 
> I still do not know when or IF the HR10-250 will be getting the 6.2 update.
> When will it be getting the update? My HR10-250 is very slow when trying to
> schedule recordings and season passes. I spent a lot of money for TWO
> HR10-250s and feel its performance is very sub par for such an expensive
> piece of electronic equipment.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> _Customer_
> 
> _____
> 
> From: DIRECTV Customer Service [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 3:32 AM
> To: _Customer_
> Subject: HR10-250 [Incident: 050925-002771]
> 
> Dear _Customer_,
> 
> Thanks for asking about the new software upgrade to your DIRECTV DVR. The
> DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the
> navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for
> programs.
> 
> The new software will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR
> receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it
> is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some
> older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out
> more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web
> site at directv.com/dvr62upgrade.
> 
> Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news
> and information about our service.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Bryan
> DIRECTV Customer Service
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Original Message Follows:
> 
> DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE
> 
> Name: _Customer_,
> 
> Status: Prospect
> 
> [Account Number: xxxxxxxxxx]
> 
> E-mail Address: "_Customer_"<_Customer_@email.com>
> 
> [Topic Selected: Other]
> 
> Subject: HR10-250
> 
> Details: I was told the HR10-250 will get the 6.2 software upgrade. Do you
> know when that may be? Or when new FASTER equipment will become available
> for HD users. The HR10-250 is very, very slow when selecting programs to
> record.
> Thank you,
> _Customer_


----------



## Lee L

Philly Bill said:


> They know that eventually - a trickle at first - everyone will switch on their own to the DTV DVR because it will do a lot of things the TIVO one won't.


Unfortunately for us, some of those things are - Limit you to 50 season passes until a SW download fixes it one day, miss recodings all the time and need constant rebooting.

There will be some nice features hopefully, but if they can;t get the basics right, it does not bode well for those features.


----------



## codespy

jiserrab said:


> Yeah they told me that too, March *2005*
> 
> See my email below to/from D* starting from the bottom with my first correspondence.


The March 7, 2005 date indicated for the upgrade gave us the 3.1.5f. That's it.


----------



## ddruker

From: "DIRECTV Customer Service" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: My 2 HD-Tivo's Are Really Slow [Incident: xxx]

Dear Mr. Druker,

Thanks for taking the time to write us and let us know your concerns about your DIRECTV HR10-250 6.2 software upgrade. You are important to us and we certainly value your business. At this time, we are preparing for the 6.2 software upgrade but the date has yet to be determined.

Also, if you encounter a technical problem, please call 1-888-667-7463 and choose the option to speak to a technical assistant.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and software updates.

Sincerely,

Jim
DIRECTV Customer Service

---------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message Follows:

DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE

Name: Daniel Druker
Status: Subscriber
[Account Number: xxx]
Email Address: [email protected]
[Topic Selected: Upgrade]
Subject: My 2 HD-Tivo's Are Really Slow

Details: I am frustrated by how slow the guide and scheduling recordings is in my two HD-Tivos. It seems strange to me your most expensive products have the oldest version of your software and the slowest performance of any of your systems.

So my question is when are you going to release the 6.2 software for the HD-Tivo (HR10-250) that fixes this ? And if your answer is "I don't know" - I would ask you how this is possible - I am aware from reading internet forums that you have received 1000's of requests for this upgrade.

I am very surprised about this given that your HD-Tivo customers have to be your highest lifetime value, highest net worth clients - aren't they worth the best possible service to you?


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## whsbuss

Sounds good, but _Where's the beef!_ They have been saying ths for months.


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## JohnTivo

They'll probably keep saying it for months until the HR20 is released. Then they'll say, sorry the HR10 has been replaced by the HR20. There will be no further software updates to the HR10. Please pay us $499 and we'll lease you a HR20. Remember, somebody up there loves you!


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## pkscout

I don't think it's really necessary for everyone to repost the same form letter from DTV. It hasn't changed in like a year. Here's the short version:

6.2 is coming, we [DirecTV] haven't decided when. Maybe around 2042 sometime.


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## peiler

I spoke with (2) 'high level' tech's today regarding this very topic. How I got there was pointless... but here is the 'real' story.

From D*TV: "We are working on the 6.2 version now, but there are issues with the download crashing HD's."

Me: "O.K., given the fact that your own branded HD-DVR is on the way, AND that Tivo and DTV have officially/unofficially parted ways... what does that mean?"

D*TV: "Well, the problem is that we need engineers from BOTH companies to get this to work. I think you can see where the problem is."

Me: "So, what your saying is that the 'teams' are no longer 'working together'? I guess that means your utilizing marketing money to make customers happy until your new unit comes out."

D*TV: "Officially, we are working on it. Reality, well...."

Me: "No chance in hell this get fixed..."

D*TV: "Yeah... that would be pretty much exactly what we expect. Every engineer is focused on the new products, we have not had a update on this product in over 6 months... more like 8 months!"

*****en... since I purchased this a month ago with a note on the account that the 6.2 upgrade would happen...


----------



## codespy

Thanks for the update, but that's what I had detailed in my Feb 28th post. I guess if anything its a little consistency (same info to 2 different customers) from DTV.

Last I checked there's like over 117,000 members on this site. Can't one of you help DTV write this damn thing?


----------



## Runch Machine

peiler said:


> I spoke with (2) 'high level' tech's today regarding this very topic. How I got there was pointless... but here is the 'real' story.
> 
> From D*TV: "We are working on the 6.2 version now, but there are issues with the download crashing HD's."
> 
> Me: "O.K., given the fact that your own branded HD-DVR is on the way, AND that Tivo and DTV have officially/unofficially parted ways... what does that mean?"
> 
> D*TV: "Well, the problem is that we need engineers from BOTH companies to get this to work. I think you can see where the problem is."
> 
> Me: "So, what your saying is that the 'teams' are no longer 'working together'? I guess that means your utilizing marketing money to make customers happy until your new unit comes out."
> 
> D*TV: "Officially, we are working on it. Reality, well...."
> 
> Me: "No chance in hell this get fixed..."
> 
> D*TV: "Yeah... that would be pretty much exactly what we expect. Every engineer is focused on the new products, we have not had a update on this product in over 6 months... more like 8 months!"
> 
> *****en... since I purchased this a month ago with a note on the account that the 6.2 upgrade would happen...


While I belive that this conversation could have taken place, there is NO WAY software can cause a hard drive to have a head crash. There is no command that could be inserted into a program to cause this. It is impossible. Who ever came up with this at Directv is simply making it up.


----------



## codespy

Runch Machine said:


> While I belive that this conversation could have taken place, there is NO WAY software can cause a hard drive to have a head crash. There is no command that could be inserted into a program to cause this. It is impossible. Who ever came up with this at Directv is simply making it up.


I don't think they are referencing a hardware-related crash. Perhaps DTV has not updated virus definitions for the anti-virus software they're using on the cpu that is sending the test runs out to the IRD's.


----------



## zalusky

All I can say is I have 4 tivos, 2 hdvr2, and 2 hr10-250.
I have never had to replace the hard drives on my hdvr2 units and they are at least two years older then my hr10-250 units and run at similar temperatures. I have had to replace the drives twice on each of the hr10-250 units. I also tested the failed drives and found solid errors so its not just corrupted data.

The bottom line is there is something going on here that is wearing them out. I can believe that 6.2 would drive them even harder. Maybe if there was more memory to buffer the drives ???


----------



## codespy

I'm not a rocket scientist obviously, but is it possible that recording HD content on these drives could help screw them up? I have many other SD receivers of all sizes and have had no problems. When I got my HR10-250 2 months ago, they sent me a replacement almost immediately because it became stuck on the 'Just a few more' screen. Is E* having similar issues with their HD drives? Anyways, just a thought.


----------



## SecureTalk

codespy said:


> I'm not a rocket scientist obviously, but is it possible that recording HD content on these drives could help screw them up? I have many other SD receivers of all sizes and have had no problems. When I got my HR10-250 2 months ago, they sent me a replacement almost immediately because it became stuck on the 'Just a few more' screen. Is E* having similar issues with their HD drives? Anyways, just a thought.


The disks do not know the difference between SD and HD content being recorded. To the hardware there is no difference. The content (data stream) sent from the DirecTV Sats is recorded directly to the hard drives. The difference comes in the decoding of the data once it has been read off the disk. So the answer is the content written and read from the disks has nothing to do with a drive failure.

Also the software (this includes the OS as well as the applications) are not the cause of the hardware failure. Sure the harder the hardware is driven by the software (we are talking hardware that has mechanical components) the more likely a failure will occur sooner rather then later, but there is no guarantee that a drive will fail just because it is used more. Also remember by the nature of a DVR the data streams are being written to the disk and then read wether you are using the DVR or not (unless the DVR is unplugged). The usage does not change that much, wether you are watching live TV, a recoded program or recording two programs while you watch a third.

There are so many factors that come into play in a hard drive failure it could be debated well beyond the scope of this forum. Some of the factors are component quality, quality control during manufacture of the components, of the assembly of the drive, the quality of non-moving parts, like the circuit board, power supply and power regulator. Power spikes coming in to the unit, the DVR being bumped, dropped, mishandled ..etc... Most hard drives have a MTBF rating. This rating is not and exact science. Expecting a drive with a MTBF of 5 years, to fail exactly 5 years of use not a day before or after is bad planning . Rather it is a general life expectancy. Just like life expectancy, you may live to 35 or you live to 120. Who can explain someone who takes care of themselves who dies early and a smoker and a drinker living to 100. Much of the life of a drive is just plain dumb luck.

So if you had two HR10-250s with drive failures does not mean HR10-250s are prone to disk failure. The disks used may have been lower quality [cheap] drives, with lower MTBF ratings. There is nothing inherent in the data being recorded that will cause drive failure.

I don't want this to sound like a contradiction, but the more data packed in to a smaller space leads to a higher potential of data corruption [usualy when low quality parts are used]. Data corruption should not be considered a hard drive crash. Once a hard drive crashes the platters in the drive are physically damaged and the disk can not just be reformatted and reused. Data corruption without hardware damage can often be fixed or ignored. Data corruption may just appear as a glitch in one frame of a program you are watching, or as serious as not allowing the TiVo to fully boot.

My point is that stating the 6.2 version software is causing the drives to crash is just plain wrong. The 6.2 upgrade very well may be corrupting the data to the point that the TiVo is not operational without reloading the OS and TiVo applications, but it is NOT a crash. Although to the vast majority of end users this boils down to the same thing. It is the use of the wrong terms that bothers me sometimes. Like a user calling in to a tech support center and stating their thingie does not work. DirecTV should just tell people the software is corrupting the data and your recorded shows may become corrupted. Not misleading the public stating their equipment is damaged, by the software upgrade.


----------



## bdlucas

SecureTalk said:


> The disks do not know the difference between SD and HD content being recorded.


The data rate for HD is much higher than for SD, which potentially means more disk activity - more data written to the disk, possibly more disk head seeking. In principle this could increase the likelihood of a failure. In reality I doubt if this is the case, but it's at least conceivable.


----------



## cheer

It's entirely possible that when the D* CSR said "crashes HDs" s/he meant "crashes HD units" (meaning hi-def) as opposed to crashing hard drives.

Alternatively it could be the non-techie's explanation for an OS/software crash. To many people I know, if the computer locks up or the OS won't boot, it's always a "hard drive crash." (In fact, many folks point to the main box (the PC) and call it the "hard drive.")


----------



## the_scotsman

zalusky said:


> All I can say is I have 4 tivos, 2 hdvr2, and 2 hr10-250.
> I have never had to replace the hard drives on my hdvr2 units and they are at least two years older then my hr10-250 units and run at similar temperatures. I have had to replace the drives twice on each of the hr10-250 units. I also tested the failed drives and found solid errors so its not just corrupted data.
> 
> The bottom line is there is something going on here that is wearing them out. I can believe that 6.2 would drive them even harder. Maybe if there was more memory to buffer the drives ???


HD streams contain much more data than SD streams so your HDD is work much harder (~6x) - all the time if you only tune/record HD channels. Rotational wear is the same but the stepper motors for the heads will be worked much harder.

Paul


----------



## alv

I've wondered if the hard drive failures have to do with subwoofers causing intense vibrations.


----------



## tomr

SecureTalk said:


> ...
> Like a user calling in to a tech support center and stating their thingie does not work.


Hmmm, sounds like a personal problem to me that DirecTV can't fix!


----------



## wje

the_scotsman said:


> HD streams contain much more data than SD streams so your HDD is work much harder (~6x) - all the time if you only tune/record HD channels. Rotational wear is the same but the stepper motors for the heads will be worked much harder.
> Paul


All modern drives use voice-coil positioners for the heads, steppers are far too slow. The only moving part is the actuator arm and its bearing. Of course, the more the head moves, the more power is used, raising the internal temperature. High heat is a real lifetime-shortener for the electronics.

The primary failure mode actually seems to be surface defects developing on the platters themselves (bad blocks). Some drives are better than others. Part of the problem is that the hd manufacturers just aren't building them as well as they used to, a natural consequence of the dramatically slimmer profit margins. Also, the clearance between head and disk has gotten very, very small. So, defects that woudn't have made a difference in the past are now more serious.

For long-term use (years), the failing component is likely to be the spindle or actuator arm bearings.


----------



## MichaelK

wje said:


> All modern drives use voice-coil positioners for the heads, steppers are far too slow. The only moving part is the actuator arm and its bearing. Of course, the more the head moves, the more power is used, raising the internal temperature. High heat is a real lifetime-shortener for the electronics.
> 
> The primary failure mode actually seems to be surface defects developing on the platters themselves (bad blocks). Some drives are better than others. Part of the problem is that the hd manufacturers just aren't building them as well as they used to, a natural consequence of the dramatically slimmer profit margins. Also, the clearance between head and disk has gotten very, very small. So, defects that woudn't have made a difference in the past are now more serious.
> 
> For long-term use (years), the failing component is likely to be the spindle or actuator arm bearings.


since modern drive failures seem to be relaated to surface defects, I'm wondering if the little magnetic bits getting flipped 6 times more often wth HD could make the mean time between failures 6 times sooner?


----------



## elitty

Hello, I purchased my Tivo Hr10 250 unit awhile ago and spent $1,000.00 . I have heard some talk about my unit being swapped out for a newer unit that does not have Tivo. I don't want to swap or loose the tivo hd feature. Is there anything being discussed along these lines by D?


----------



## cheer

If you want to get your local market stations in HD from D* (and you want a DVR) then you'll need the new MPEG4-based HR20 DVR. It's not a Tivo. It appears likely that D* will swap out your HR10-250.

However, if you don't want the HD locals, you don't need to give up your HR10-250.


----------



## maldini

> If you want to get your local market stations in HD from D* (and you want a DVR) then you'll need the new MPEG4-based HR20 DVR. It's not a Tivo. It appears likely that D* will swap out your HR10-250.
> 
> However, if you don't want the HD locals, you don't need to give up your HR10-250.


Its logical to assume that eventually non local HD channels will be available only in MPEG4 and as such even if you did get your locals via OTA, you might still have to give up the HR10-250 to get the new HD channels.

Maldini


----------



## cheer

maldini said:


> Its logical to assume that eventually non local HD channels will be available only in MPEG4 and as such even if you did get your locals via OTA, you might still have to give up the HR10-250 to get the new HD channels.


Sure. But when? I'd guess national MPEG4 channels won't happen until after the locals rollout. After all, as soon as D* starts moving nationals to MPEG4 they also have to start upgrading everybody's receivers -- not a small (nor inexpensive) task.

I'd wager we're at least 2-3 years away from national MPEG4 channels. At least.


----------



## drewcipher

They need to come out with their HD unit before anything happens. Or has it come out under my nose?


----------



## MichaelK

cheer said:


> Sure. But when? I'd guess national MPEG4 channels won't happen until after the locals rollout. After all, as soon as D* starts moving nationals to MPEG4 they also have to start upgrading everybody's receivers -- not a small (nor inexpensive) task.
> 
> I'd wager we're at least 2-3 years away from national MPEG4 channels. At least.


While it will be some time. - I dont expect them to launch directway10 early in 2007 (1 year ish) and have it sit around unused for another year or 2 to get to your 2-3 year estimate of new national channels.

I would assume that since it can handle 75 national HD channels that new national content will be available from Directv 10 shortly after it gets operational (I guess that could be 2 years but 3 years seems a little long). Since getting Ka will require a dsih swap anyhow, I cant imagine them not throwing in a new box and putting everything new on the KA birds in MPEG4.


----------



## NightmarePatrol

MichaelK said:


> since modern drive failures seem to be relaated to surface defects, I'm wondering if the little magnetic bits getting flipped 6 times more often wth HD could make the mean time between failures 6 times sooner?


Ummm... No. The disks (drives) in a TiVo aren't any different than what goes into a regular desktop computer. Many desktop computers disks see much harder use than your TiVO (unless you are recording/watching almost 24 hours per day) and flip the bits a whole lot more.

As stated above, it's most like the quality of parts involved in making the box. One possible contributing factor (and this is a BIG stretch) is that most drives are badly fragmented, which results in additional head movement. Even then... the MTBF should still be a ways out on the calendar.


----------



## D_Doherty

NightmarePatrol said:


> Ummm... No. The disks (drives) in a TiVo aren't any different than what goes into a regular desktop computer. Many desktop computers disks see much harder use than your TiVO (unless you are recording/watching almost 24 hours per day) and flip the bits a whole lot more.


Ummm... Yes the tivo's drives are in constant use (24 hours/day) unless you pull the power cord out.


----------



## NightmarePatrol

Ummm... no, the drives are in use, but they do not perform as many seek/read/write operations as many hard drives that last much longer. I'm not talking about the amount of time the drive spends spun-up, but the amount of seek/read/write operations that are being performed, specifically - things that cause head movement and read write operations to occur. Capturing an MPEG data stream does not really put that much of a load on a drive at all in the scheme of things. 

The disk drives on some of my home systems (up 24x7) are performing much higher rates of operation than what they are on the TiVo. An HR10-250 can hold 30 hours of HD programming. That's 8gb (rough) per hour maxed out. Even if you are recording two shows and watching another, that's not an astounding transfer rate at all.


----------



## D_Doherty

It is not a matter of IF two shows are being recorded; unless you tune to non-existent channels the tivo is always recording two channels at a time.

If those channels both happen to be OTA channels then you will be writing 2 * 19.2 Mb/s or about 17GB/hour.


----------



## NightmarePatrol

It's still not a massive amount of data. And yes, they are in use all the time. They still should not wear out as quickly.


----------



## wje

NightmarePatrol said:


> Ummm... No. The disks (drives) in a TiVo aren't any different than what goes into a regular desktop computer.


Maybe, maybe not. I haven't bothered to check what's in the HR10. But, several drive manufacturers make drives 'optimized' for video stream handling. What this basically means is that they don't do bad-block rereads or rewrites when streaming data, the idea being a dropped block is less likely to be noticed than a bunch of rereads. One aspect of HR10 drive failures seems to be related to doing rereads, so perhaps the HR10 doesn't use these. Still shouldn't have such a high failure rate, but it's possible that if the drive is doing bunches of rereads, the increased electronics heating is causing problems. One would think they could just map out bad blocks, but apparently not.


----------



## NightmarePatrol

It's unknown (at least to me) how the drive is mapped out. At first glance there is probably a separate logical volume for the tuner backup/pause/rewind/whatever and a separate volume for recorded viewings. We (me included) are also making a lot of assumptions about the internal workings of the unit. I'm assuming that it's a standard 5400rpm IDE drive siting on a PCI bus running their proprietary OS. I'm also assuming that they have a reasonable amount of cache on board and are performing deferred writes whenever possible. Either way, a disk drive should last longer. Mine is still running and I hope I never have to go through the hassle of swapping it out.


----------



## SecureTalk

NightmarePatrol said:


> It's unknown (at least to me) how the drive is mapped out. At first glance there is probably a separate logical volume for the tuner backup/pause/rewind/whatever and a separate volume for recorded viewings. We (me included) are also making a lot of assumptions about the internal workings of the unit. I'm assuming that it's a standard 5400rpm IDE drive siting on a PCI bus running their proprietary OS. I'm also assuming that they have a reasonable amount of cache on board and are performing deferred writes whenever possible. Either way, a disk drive should last longer. Mine is still running and I hope I never have to go through the hassle of swapping it out.


The DirecTV TiVo DVR runs Linux for it's OS.. not very proprietary. DirecTV switched to a proprietary OS for it's own line of DVRs. Meaning making it very hard to hack to add features or use for other purposes. I would not be surprised to see TiVo switch from using an open OS like Linux in it's Series 1 and Series 2 DVRs to a closed (proprietary) OS in the Series 3 DVRs.

It's a shame if that happens. Most of us hack our TiVo's to add features we feel are lacking or to add additional functionality. I even use my retired T-60s as headless PCs. They are basically running a few programs I wrote, that don't need much horse power, but benefit from running on a stable platform and OS (unlike the unstable MS OS). These headless DirecTiVo units are fully connected to the internet and my LAN and pull and store information in a database providing information to remote web applications. If these units had been running a proprietary OS I would not have been able to use the damaged T-60s for anything and they would have been destained for the scrapheap.


----------



## stevel

Yes, TiVos run Linux but they run proprietary software on top of Linux.


----------



## jhimmel

stevel said:


> Yes, TiVos run Linux but they run proprietary software on top of Linux.


Well, of course they do, but he was responding to NightmarePatrol who assumed that TiVo ran on a proprietary OS.

Jim H.


----------



## MichaelK

NightmarePatrol said:


> Ummm... no, the drives are in use, but they do not perform as many seek/read/write operations as many hard drives that last much longer. I'm not talking about the amount of time the drive spends spun-up, but the amount of seek/read/write operations that are being performed, specifically - things that cause head movement and read write operations to occur. Capturing an MPEG data stream does not really put that much of a load on a drive at all in the scheme of things.
> 
> The disk drives on some of my home systems (up 24x7) are performing much higher rates of operation than what they are on the TiVo. An HR10-250 can hold 30 hours of HD programming. That's 8gb (rough) per hour maxed out. Even if you are recording two shows and watching another, that's not an astounding transfer rate at all.


I'm not talking about seeks. WIth the huge block sizes- no doubt tivo can have a lot less seeks than many drives. My question is baout the writes- I would GUESS most storage devices predominately READ the date with occasional writes. Home PC for example- I write documents or store digital media surfe the web and cashe pages all of which are read many time more then they are written too. The server that runs this board- most of the data is written once and then read hundreds or thousands of times.

So the fact that the Tivo's are basically always writing over past data thereby flipping the bits more frequently- would that matter? (I aint a clue that's why I asked)


----------



## rttrek

No, that would *not* matter. Reversing magnetic fields doesn't cause wear like seeking and rotation do, and of course rotation is the same on any drive that's up all the time.

Well, that's not entirely true... a 5400 RPM drive has less war from rotation 24/7/365 than a 7200 RPM drive does, due to fewer actual rotations and less heat. Note that the built-in drives on TiVos are generally 5400 RPM.


----------



## NightmarePatrol

From what I understand the OS is 99%+ Linux off the shelf. There have been a few tweaks made to it to accommodate the actual application. By my definition, that' s proprietery. I have not idea how that and the GPL interact. I know that at my job we have similar devices that have special version of linux that aren't entirely off-the shelf.

As for the number of seeks a drive performs... That can be reduced by cleaning up old recordings or moving them off. As the drive becomes fragmented those huge data blocks you mentioned may not fit contiguously from the spot originally chosen. This causes a "split I/O", causing the drive to perform multiple seeks to write a single block data. 

I just want my software update, that's all.


----------



## richierich

I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.


----------



## Dirac

DNFTT...


----------



## Todd

richierich said:


> I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.


Huh??


----------



## pkscout

richierich said:


> I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.


I suppose the good news is we won't need to ask the admins to increase the PM quota to deal with the flood of PMs.


----------



## solomita

I don't care to predict if the update will come, instead I'll say that I don't want it! I don't trust DTV to test it thoroughly and to send out another update to fix any newly introduced bugs. I'd rather keep what I have than play roulette with an update for a product that is being phased out and whose software is written by a company no longer in a good relationship with DTV.

But my wishes mean nothing, and time will tell.


----------



## codespy

Excellent point. Never thought of it that way. Hell, just look at the R15. This thing freezes so much I'm thinking of throwing pizzas, steaks and ice cream in it, no matter what updates I'ts had!


----------



## k1114

richierich said:


> I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.


I haven't heard a word about the 6.2 update, although if I get it i'll be sure to post


----------



## AbMagFab

We're never getting 6.2 for the HR10. Can we please close this thread or something? It's troll food at this point.

If you want 6.2 (or better), you'll have to wait for the Tivo Series 3 (and dump DirecTV).


----------



## Guindalf

richierich said:


> I understand that we are getting very close to getting the new 6.2 update and I am so excited I could just ****!!! Does anybody know the exact date? Boy this will be exciting as I have told many people as long as a year ago that it will never happen and I guess I am wrong. I want everyone to PM me as soon as they get their update.


and by "I understand", what exactly do you mean? You appear to have a hot line to information that no-one else has!


----------



## Syzygy

It's been said before  probably even in this very thread  yet it bears repeating:

If your HR10-250's interface has gotten so slow you can't take it anymore, then it's time to defrag your hard drive [*Messages & Setup -> Restart or Reset System -> Clear and delete everything*]. It's _better _than an OS upgrade!

It's best to write down your SPs and ARWLs beforehand, for easier re-entry after.

I cleared everything a month or two ago, and the interface is now as fast as it was when I first got my HR10-250, 21 months ago. I suspect defragging is needed about once a year  at least when you record and delete more than 30 hours of stuff every week, like me!


----------



## PJO1966

Syzygy said:


> It's been said before  probably even in this very thread  yet it bears repeating:
> 
> If your HR10-250's interface has gotten so slow you can't take it anymore, then it's time to defrag your hard drive [*Messages & Setup -> Restart or Reset System -> Clear and delete everything*]. It's _better _than an OS upgrade!
> 
> It's best to write down your SPs and ARWLs beforehand, for easier re-entry after.
> 
> I cleared everything a month or two ago, and the interface is now as fast as it was when I first got my HR10-250, 21 months ago. I suspect defragging is needed about once a year  at least when you record and delete more than 30 hours of stuff every week, like me!


Just to be clear... this also deletes all your recordings. I know it's obvious since it state "everything", but I just wanted to be clear. I really should have done this when I was down to less than one page of recordings. Now I have 5+.


----------



## whsbuss

So how long did the defrag take? There's been reports in other threads of more than 100 hours. What I would really like to see in ANY upgrade is a Native Resolution mode. I sold my video processor because it was such a pain having to change the mode each time I changed from SD (480i) to HD (720p/1080i).


----------



## rminsk

It is not a "defrag", it is removing all records from the database and removing all the files from the TiVo filesystem. The TiVo file system does fragment but the video is written in vary large blocks. This means that the read/write times are longer. The TiVo filesystem is less effected by seekings. Fragmenting will have less of a performance penalty than a typical PC. What is slowing down the TiVo is the database which must be read/written between video reads and writes. Instead of removing everything just try removing thumbs ratings and clean up old season passes and wish lists.


----------



## whsbuss

rminsk said:


> It is not a "defrag", it is removing all records from the database and removing all the files from the TiVo filesystem. The TiVo file system does fragment but the video is written in vary large blocks. This means that the read/write times are longer. The TiVo filesystem is less effected by seekings. Fragmenting will have less of a performance penalty than a typical PC. What is slowing down the TiVo is the database which must be read/written between video reads and writes. Instead of removing everything just try removing thumbs ratings and clean up old season passes and wish lists.


So are you saying to delete season passes not being used and then doing a clear?


----------



## richierich

He is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with others and of course delete any unused Season Passes so it doesn't have to perform any overhead on those SPs.


----------



## whsbuss

richierich said:


> He is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with others and of course delete any unused Season Passes so it doesn't have to perform any overhead on those SPs.


I don't use Thumbs Up/Down either. However, when you select a program to record (or those in your SP list) it does mark a thumbs up for that program.


----------



## Syzygy

> _*whsbuss* said:_
> So how long did the defrag take? There's been reports in other threads of more than 100 hours.


I thought it would take only an hour or two, but I gave up watching for it to end and went to sleep. Early the next morning it was complete. So all I know is that it took more than a couple hours and less than 8 hours.


----------



## Syzygy

> _*rminsk* said:_
> It is not a "defrag", it is removing all records from the database and removing all the files from the TiVo filesystem.


Well, removing all records from the database effectively defragments the database. And removing all the files is the only way to defragment the filesystem. So if I misspoke, it was _not _in saying "defrag", it was in _not _saying "double defrag".


> What is slowing down the TiVo is the database which must be read/written between video reads and writes. Instead of removing everything just try removing thumbs ratings and clean up old season passes and wish lists.


That's a good suggestion. I tried that first, but the resulting speedup was not as much as I had hoped; it didn't restore the interface speed to what it had been when I first started using the unit.


----------



## Syzygy

> _*richierich* said:_
> He [rminsk] is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with others...


No, he wasn't saying anything of the sort... although that's a good idea, and I'm now refraining from using Thumbs Up as freely as I once did. (I used to mark every good movie that I had seen with a thumb even though I'd seen it elsewhere! Now I remove some of the auto-generated thumbs from shows that I recorded but didn't seem to be very good.)

Your system may still be pretty fast because you might not have used it as much. In addition, the slowness sneaks up on you gradually, so you might not realize any discomfort with the interface until it reaches your threshold of tolerance.


----------



## rminsk

richierich said:


> He is saying don't use the Thumbs Up Suggestions which I have never used so mine is pretty fast in comparison with others


I was saying delete the thumbs up and down database. You can get to it from the same screen. Even if you do not use Thumbs up it still stores a thumbs up from every program you record.


----------



## rminsk

Syzygy said:


> (Now I remove some of the auto-generated thumbs from shows that I recorded but didn't seem to be very good.)


That is not the same thing as delete the thumbs database. When you set the thumbs back to 0 it still has in the database that you have zero thumbs for that program.


----------



## DeWitt

Clearing the thumbs DB helps a little, but clear and delete is like a magic potion of speed. Of course it is painfull as everything is lost. How long it takes seems to be dependent on how bad the data fragmentation/corruption is. I used The instant cake utility to redo my image, then C&D which took only about 1/2 hour. Machine is like new. Makes me remember how much i liked it when I first got it. Amazing how you don't notice how bad something is when it creeps up on you slowly.

I have spoken with others who have gotten the same happy results with just a strait C&D, YMMV


----------



## rminsk

DeWitt said:


> How long it takes seems to be dependent on how bad the data fragmentation/corruption is.


Again, fragmentation has little preformance impact on a TiVo and I'm not sure what you are talking about corruption. The size of the database and the more files you have on the TiVo causes it to take a long time to delete.


----------



## DeWitt

I have no way of knowing if it is fragmentation or corruption, but many of us have seen the drastic slow down over time, even when no programs are stored and the thumbs DB is cleared. A C&D restores the original speediness. Don't know the why's but have definitely seen the effect.

For example - Pre C&D - No programs stored, thumbs DB reset, 8 seaon passes. Scheduling a new show - about 60 second. Adding a new seaon pass, 5 minutes or more.

After C&D and restoring all of the same season passes, scheduling a show to record - seconds, adding a new season pass, 6 or 7 seconds.


----------



## joetoronto

DeWitt said:


> I have no way of knowing if it is fragmentation or corruption, but many of us have seen the drastic slow down over time, even when no programs are stored and the thumbs DB is cleared. A C&D restores the original speediness. Don't know the why's but have definitely seen the effect.
> 
> For example - Pre C&D - No programs stored, thumbs DB reset, 8 seaon passes. Scheduling a new show - about 60 second. Adding a new seaon pass, 5 minutes or more.
> 
> After C&D and restoring all of the same season passes, scheduling a show to record - seconds, adding a new season pass, 6 or 7 seconds.


how long have you had yours, DeWitt?

i make a point of not keeping more than 24 hours of HD content on mine and i've been thinking that's why mine hasn't slowed down.

i've only had it for 2 1/2 months though.


----------



## DeWitt

A long time... Mine was one of the first ones. ($1,000 Ouch!)

It was over a year till I was bothered by the slowness. It has been 2 or 3 months since I reimaged it and it is still doing great.


----------



## joetoronto

DeWitt said:


> A long time... Mine was one of the first ones. ($1,000 Ouch!)
> 
> It was over a year till I was bothered by the slowness. It has been 2 or 3 months since I reimaged it and it is still doing great.


cool, thanks for the info.


----------



## Lee L

I know my new HR10-250 is one heck of a lot faster than my original one downstairs, but I have had the old one for abour 20 months now and it is expanded to 500 gig.


----------



## codespy

I usually complain to DTV once or twice a month regarding the update issue, just in case they were thinking of forgetting that people really would like it.

Instead of asking when it's going to happen, I asked 'Why did DTV decide never to upgrade the HR10-250 to the 6.2 with folders. Here is the response they gave:

Dear Codespy,

Thanks for writing. The DIRECTV HR10-250 receiver qualifies to get the 6.2 upgrade. However, the date for the upgrade is yet to be determined. Be assured, though, that it will get the software upgrade in the future.

I hope this information is helpful to you.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

*******
DIRECTV Customer Service 


Response dated 3-24-06


----------



## richierich

It will not happen, don't yall get it. They are just putting you off until you can swap out your unit for their new unit at a cost and an additional commitment. I predicted that we would not get this release back in October and I was right on the money.

Maybe I am psychic or I just understand the mentality of corporations because I worked for a number of them over the years. It will not happen so just understand that. They are spending all of their resources on the new DVR, PERIOD, end of story!!!


----------



## ret2961

MAN! I just restored an image of my HRDV2, and it just finished the 6.2 update, and DAM*IT, I forgot how much better (speed speed speed) it is. I was used to the 250 and forgot how much better it could be...


----------



## codespy

richierich said:


> It will not happen, don't yall get it. They are just putting you off until you can swap out your unit for their new unit at a cost and an additional commitment. I predicted that we would not get this release back in October and I was right on the money.


But, but, they say it will. What does the word future mean? LOL

I re-phrased my question to them and edited my previous post with their response.

I agree with you it will not come, it's just interesting to see the BS statements they come up with over time.


----------



## richierich

They are Masters at BS!!!


----------



## InterceptPoint

This is probably Off-Topic for a 6.2 thread but I'm curious if there is any possibility that 6.2 (if we ever see it) just might fix the crappy 10-250 SD graphics. Probably my major dissapointment with my HD Tivo was that the menus don't display any better on my brand new 65" HP 6580n than they do on my 10 year old Mitsubishi SDTV.


----------



## joetoronto

InterceptPoint said:


> This is probably Off-Topic for a 6.2 thread but I'm curious if there is any possibility that 6.2 (if we ever see it) just might fix the crappy 10-250 SD graphics. Probably my major dissapointment with my HD Tivo was that the menus don't display any better on my brand new 65" HP 6580n than they do on my 10 year old Mitsubishi SDTV.


what's wrong with the menu's?


----------



## StEvEY5036

joetoronto said:


> what's wrong with the menu's?


Ill agree that the menus do look like crap. Not like its a HUGE deal.. but i think that if the unit is a HD unit, the menus should be designed to look as great as the programming its capable of recieving.


----------



## joetoronto

StEvEY5036 said:


> Ill agree that the menus do look like crap. Not like its a HUGE deal.. but i think that if the unit is a HD unit, the menus should be designed to look as great as the programming its capable of recieving.


hey, whatever floats your boat i guess.

me, i have bigger fish to fry, much bigger.


----------



## InterceptPoint

joetoronto said:


> what's wrong with the menu's?


Low resolution text.

It seems clear to me that the 10-250 is not generating text for the menu system at either 720p or 1080i resolution. It just isn't crisp like HD text can be. That is not a hardware limitation or shouldn't be. The text generation in my 10-250 is running from the same hardware/software engine as my SD Tivo and is not nearly as good as I have seen on other non-Tivo HD receivers.


----------



## diagoro

The menu quality was always a minor issue for me. It became much more obvious after hooking up a XBOX 360 and seeing how sharp and fine the menu graphics were for the gaming system.......


----------



## diagoro

So you're planning on recording all 64 games in HD? That's got to be some MAJOR drive space......You might want to allow for some extra recording time since ESPN had a very bad record with the Baseball Classic. Some games were broadcast up to two or three hours after the program grid stated the start time......and even than the game was cut short and only portions show due to 'time constraints'.


----------



## InterceptPoint

joetoronto said:


> hey, whatever floats your boat i guess.
> 
> me, i have bigger fish to fry, much bigger.


And those fish are ... ?


----------



## joetoronto

InterceptPoint said:


> And those fish are ... ?


lol, there's not enough bandwidth here.


----------



## clorox

InterceptPoint said:


> And those fish are ... ?


Um, folders, speed, etc., etc., etc.


----------



## InterceptPoint

joetoronto said:


> lol, there's not enough bandwidth here.


You guys are pretty picky. I'm actually quite happy with my 10-250. Channel switching speed could be better but it seems adequate to me. My only real complaint is the graphics.

OTOH, MPEG-4 will eventually arrive and then we'll all have a new dog to kick. To dream.


----------



## sdchrgrboy

InterceptPoint said:


> You guys are pretty picky. I'm actually quite happy with my 10-250. Channel switching speed could be better but it seems adequate to me. My only real complaint is the graphics.
> 
> OTOH, MPEG-4 will eventually arrive and then we'll all have a new dog to kick. To dream.


And your not picky? Who gives a rats a#$ about the graphics. Does that really make a difference? Are you watching the graphics? I didn't think so. It could really use folders.


----------



## codespy

sdchrgrboy said:


> And your not picky? Who gives a rats a#$ about the graphics. Does that really make a difference? Are you watching the graphics? I didn't think so. It could really use folders.


Sorry interceptpoint, I have to agree with this one. I like the channel banner to disappear quickly when surfing. Also, not only folders but the speed factor once recordings and season passes get built up on the unit over time.

In other news, when I had coffee with Rupert today, he was under the impression that the 6.2 would, at the earliest, roll out by mid 2006. They have been spending most of their time working out the bugs on the current R15 and the soon to come HR20-250. I told him I've been holding my breath for 4 months now and won't be able to for much longer. He did not seem to give a rats a#$.


----------



## joetoronto

InterceptPoint said:


> You guys are pretty picky. I'm actually quite happy with my 10-250. Channel switching speed could be better but it seems adequate to me. My only real complaint is the graphics.
> 
> OTOH, MPEG-4 will eventually arrive and then we'll all have a new dog to kick. To dream.


i was talking about life outside of TV.


----------



## MarcusInMD

codespy said:


> Sorry interceptpoint, I have to agree with this one. I like the channel banner to disappear quickly when surfing. Also, not only folders but the speed factor once recordings and season passes get built up on the unit over time.
> 
> *In other news, when I had coffee with Rupert today,* he was under the impression that the 6.2 would, at the earliest, roll out by mid 2006. They have been spending most of their time working out the bugs on the current R15 and the soon to come HR20-250. I told him I've been holding my breath for 4 months now and won't be able to for much longer. He did not seem to give a rats a#$.


You serious, Clark?


----------



## jschmidt

The D* reps may be told to tell us all to expect the update, but will release the new DVR instead. The mgmt probably knows that once the "new thing" comes out, no one will care about an update to the old thing. Nevermind the fact that we all love TiVo DVR OS and will probably not like the new DVR system as well. However, maybe we are in the minority.

Speaking of the new DVR, has anyone heard anything new about the new HD DVR? What about the Home Media Center? I haven't seen anything new on that in months.


----------



## MichaelK

the original shippiong version on the hr20-250 might just be 6.2 ...


----------



## jcricket

MichaelK said:


> the original shippiong version on the hr20-250 might just be 6.2 ...


I'm not sure this sentence makes any sense. The HR20 is not built on the "Tivo" software platform. Instead it has a different software platform, built by NDS (owned by NewsCorp, who also owns DirecTV). Therefore there's no chance that the HR20 would ship with the 6.2 version of the Tivo software.

Unless, of course, Michael was making a joke that NDS would just change their versioning system to start up where Tivo left off.


----------



## MichaelK

jcricket said:


> I'm not sure this sentence makes any sense. The HR20 is not built on the "Tivo" software platform. Instead it has a different software platform, built by NDS (owned by NewsCorp, who also owns DirecTV). Therefore there's no chance that the HR20 would ship with the 6.2 version of the Tivo software.
> 
> Unless, of course, Michael was making a joke that NDS would just change their versioning system to start up where Tivo left off.


yep-

a joke that NDS will just start with vesion 6.2 so all the CSR's can say "see 6.2 on the HD Directv DVR...."


----------



## wmcbrine

InterceptPoint said:


> This is probably Off-Topic for a 6.2 thread but I'm curious if there is any possibility that 6.2 (if we ever see it) just might fix the crappy 10-250 SD graphics.


Screen shots from the Series 3 show no change, so there's no way 6.2 will bring it.


----------



## JaserLet

What ever happened to the petition? Did anyone at DirecTV get a chance to look at it? Is it stuck somewhere in a mailroom?


----------



## richierich

6.2 will never happen for the HR10-250 so get used to it and accept it and move on.


----------



## jschmidt

I think many of us are still in the denial or bargaining phases of grief. Some are even stuck in the anger phase. The fact that you have moved on to acceptance is wonderful and we are all proud of your ability to move on. However, for those of us that are not quite there yet, here is a handy guide to the phases of grief over the loss of 6.2 on the HR10-250...

*Shock* is the first stage. It is accompanied by disbelief and numbness. "WHAT JUST HAPPENED? You mean I can't get folders on my brand new HR10-250?"

*Denial* follows quickly, crying "I don't believe it," or "It can't be. DirecTV said that we were getting 6.2, so we MUST be getting it... it's just taking them a while. I even just received an e-mail from a CSR rep who told me that he/she KNOWS it's in the works."

*Bargaining* is your promise that "I'll be so very good that maybe I can wake up and find that it isn't so. As long as I'm one of D*'s most faithful, profitable customers, they will take care of us, right?"

*Guilt* is painful and hard to deal with. This is when one says over and over, "If only I had purchased a DVR from another provider, then I wouldn't be in this mess. Boy did I misjudge the market! Perhaps if I had signed just ONE MORE petition, we would have made D* see the light."

*Anger* is another big factor which seems to be necessary in order to face the reality of life and then to get beyond it. We must all heal in our own ways. Anger is a natural stage through which we must pass. Your anger over the fact that D* has moved on and will now be supplying their own proprietary DVR platform (NDS) instead of using the beloved TiVo. How DARE they! We have been the most loyal customers and this is how they repay us? We spent $1000 on this piece of equipment and they have abandoned us! F**K THEM!

*Depression* is a stage of grief that comes and goes. Knowing this, be prepared to give yourself time to heal. Resignation is a late stage. It comes when finally you accept the truth. D* doesn't give a crap about TiVo any longer. It's not profitable any longer since it would take away resources from their new ventures. Sadly, for those of us without other viable, quality service alternatives will soon be without TiVo. Although we don't know for sure, we are PRETTY CERTAIN that the NDS system will suck. (sigh) Trying to envision life without TiVo is like trying to envision life without air.

*Acceptance*. We are not in control of our destiny. We can only choose from the viable options that the market provides to us. We must give ourselves over to the higher power (D*, Comcast, whatever) and hope/trust that everything will turn out okay in the end.

Hopefully, with this guide now available to the public via the voice this forum provides, we can ALL let the healing begin. So, please, let's all support each other.

BTW, I am available as a sponsor if anyone needs some personal support.


----------



## sirfergy

Great post.


----------



## bigrig

Denial forever!! We're gonna get that 6.2!!!!


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## richierich

The FINAL PHASE is called recognition of reality. Seeing and knowing what really goes on in the business world can help you understand why 6.2 will never come to the HR10-250 because D* does not want to enhance our unit but would prefer all of us to switch to their new DVR (that will never happen). I am happy with my 2 HR10-250s both having 2 300 gig hard drives and OTA HD stations so I can record anything I want without having to buy their new DVR with a two year commitment as I will continue to get CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, UPN, PBS etc. FREE in HD when available. Thank God I don't have to get their new DVR to get HD locals in MPEG-4. Also, I am happy that I just got TNT HD.


----------



## drewcipher

Ok, in principle I see why people don't like the 2 year comittment, but in reality, how long have you had D*? I have had it for many years, and until someone else has NFL Sunday ticket or my Tivo stop working I don't much care. I think people just like to have something to complain about. 
My HR10s have all slowed down a little bit, but nothing takes more than 1 minute. I dont know if I am lucky or people are exaggerating the problem. The only thing I care about is folders, and that isn't enough to really piss me off. Am I disappointed in D*? Yes, very much so. Have they lost me as a customer? Not yet, and they are more likely to lose me as a result of their NFL superfan ripoff than anything else.


----------



## Runch Machine

I agree completely with richierich . While it would be nice to get 6.2, HD Tivo does what I want it to do. I've set it up with the season passes I want and when I press List, it has all the shows I want to see. I use it to watch TV, not play with the interface. I get my local channels over the air, which is where 99 percent of what I watch comes from. I expect I will be using this for the next few years and be very happy with it.


----------



## joetoronto

count me in too. i'm so happy, i'm still buying more of them.


----------



## bidger

For the most part I'm happy with the HR10-250. It's my TiVo that gets the most use, I have them pretty much ranked in priority in my sig. I could be fully satisfied if I'd gone straight from my S1 D-TiVos to the HR10-250, but the DVR-80 was something I used in between and I saw the changes that 6.2 brought, especially in how much faster functions were carried out. I just see no good reason why that same speed shouldn't be available on all S2 D-TiVo units.


----------



## Runch Machine

bidger said:


> For the most part I'm happy with the HR10-250. It's my TiVo that gets the most use, I have them pretty much ranked in priority in my sig. I could be fully satisfied if I'd gone straight from my S1 D-TiVos to the HR10-250, but the DVR-80 was something I used in between and I saw the changes that 6.2 brought, especially in how much faster functions were carried out. I just see no good reason why that same speed shouldn't be available on all S2 D-TiVo units.


You are right, it would be great to have the faster functions and benefits that 6.2 brings on HD TIvo. If Directv cared about our satisfaction, they would put it out. I don't think they do, so they won't. They had the best DVR platform available and they walked away from it. I've been with Directv since 1997. Sooner than later, I will walk away from Directv.


----------



## JRAllas

DVRaholic said:


> *CrazyFred,* ,
> 
> From what Ive read on various forums its believed that D* has the Update for the HR10-250 ready to go but they are waiting out the SD update.
> 
> Is this true CrazyFred ??? If so are they still planning to send the update soon ???
> 
> Any Information will be Greatly Appreciated
> 
> Thank You.


This is obviously a very popular thread to have lasted since May '05. I just purchased my HR10-250 recently and had the new 3LNB dish installed in place of my 2LNB dish on 3/25/06. I immediately noticed the Tivo software was an old version and awaited it to be updated like the DVR40 I already have. Now I find it won't be updated. I've got to tell you, though. The few features the upgrade gave me do not make my new HR10-250 unusable. As another person said, I use my DVR to watch TV, not to play with the interface. The first day I upgraded to HD, I manually entererd all my Wish Lists and Season Passes I already had on my DVR40. It took a while, but within a few days everything was chugging along nicely. The wife and I have almost 30 season passes and I never witnessed a wait of more than 30 seconds after changing or adding a recording. Maybe it will get slower with time, but for now its good. As long as DirecTV sends me a signal my HR10-250 can record, I'll be happy. If they expect me to chuck the DVR I just paid $499 for in favor of their new non-Tivo unit, they're sadly mistaken. Hopefully, they'll take care of all us Tivo dedicated customers and not pi$$ us all off.


----------



## MiamiTV

6.2 is ALIVE! One of my friends TiVo's just got it, folders and all. I want mine!, I'm having it make calls every :30 min. to see if I can catch it.


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## rminsk

MiamiTV said:


> 6.2 is ALIVE! One of my friends TiVo's just got it, folders and all. I want mine!, I'm having it make calls every :30 min. to see if I can catch it.


Does your friend have a HR10-250? 6.2 is still "alive" as you put it for the other series 2 DirecTiVo but not for the HR10-250. Trust me if it was alive for the HR10-250 there would be much more chatter on this board.


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## Scott D

Awwww. He's just trying to excite everyone. If it is coming out at all, it's not here yet. And besides, would you be asking your machine to check for updates every 30 minutes? Maybe once every other day or so.


----------



## richierich

Obviously with only 19 posts he is a troll just lurking around to stir up trouble.


----------



## JaserLet

I still have hope.

Hell, now that Apple is shipping computers with Intel chips that can run Windows (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) I think **ANYTHING** is possible. hehehe!


----------



## txfeinbergs

richierich said:


> Obviously with only 19 posts he is a troll just lurking around to stir up trouble.


I have to truly wonder what sort of joy these guys get out of trolling. Do they sit back and quietly watch to see what they have accomplished. (In this case, not a heck of a lot I would hazard to guess - most of us know better here).


----------



## looknow12

I'm not pointing fingers and quite frankly I could care less who's to blame for this slap in the face from DTV or Tivo. Not getting this update is a travesty for those who spent all this money on their HR10-250's.

The moment I can jump to another technology, I'm there. I'm ditching this box in a hurry.


----------



## bigrig

txfeinbergs said:


> I have to truly wonder what sort of joy these guys get out of trolling. Do they sit back and quietly watch to see what they have accomplished. (In this case, not a heck of a lot I would hazard to guess - most of us know better here).


I think if you look at all 19 of his posts you'll see he's not a troll. Just maybe not up-to-speed on the differences between the HD Tivo and the other DirecTivos.

Matt


----------



## richierich

You can't blame Tivo for this screwup. If D* wanted us to have it, they would have forced Tivo to have the code in place long ago. I was a computer programmer and it is not that difficult after having the code for the other platforms to incorporate most of that code for the HR10-250. It would not be a complete rewrite. 

However, as I have said many times before most all business decisions are made on the basis of money, either in the short run or the long run vision for the company. If they are coming out with their own DVR which will compete with the HR10-250, it would be in their best interests not to make the HR10-250 any more desirable than it already is or in fact have it less desirable because of problems so you would want to switch to the new DVR, sign another 1 or 2 year commitment and then pay the cost for the HD Locals. This is what they want so they can expand their customer base and have complete control of their product and it's destiny. They will no longer have to go to Tivo to get things done such as new software updates because they can now have more control of that aspect. 6.2 will NEVER happen for the HR10-250 because of these reasons and others that I am not even aware of, if so it would have happened 6 months ago. They are just stalling until their new DVR comes out and then they will be glad to tell you to that they will switch you over to a brand new Tivo-like DVR with better functionality (LOL) for a small fee, a new comittment and a certain level of their packages such as Total Choice or whatever. This is all being run by the Marketing Department for sure. Get over it and move on!!!


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## drewcipher

richierich said:


> You can't blame Tivo for this screwup. If D* wanted us to have it, they would have forced Tivo to have the code in place long ago. I was a computer programmer and it is not that difficult after having the code for the other platforms to incorporate most of that code for the HR10-250. It would not be a complete rewrite.
> 
> However, as I have said many times before most all business decisions are made on the basis of money, either in the short run or the long run vision for the company. If they are coming out with their own DVR which will compete with the HR10-250, it would be in their best interests not to make the HR10-250 any more desirable than it already is or in fact have it less desirable because of problems so you would want to switch to the new DVR, sign another 1 or 2 year commitment and then pay the cost for the HD Locals. This is what they want so they can expand their customer base and have complete control of their product and it's destiny. They will no longer have to go to Tivo to get things done such as new software updates because they can now have more control of that aspect. 6.2 will NEVER happen for the HR10-250 because of these reasons and others that I am not even aware of, if so it would have happened 6 months ago. They are just stalling until their new DVR comes out and then they will be glad to tell you to that they will switch you over to a brand new Tivo-like DVR with better functionality (LOL) for a small fee, a new comittment and a certain level of their packages such as Total Choice or whatever. This is all being run by the Marketing Department for sure. Get over it and move on!!!


IF this is about money their marketing department is screwed up, because they are going to lose customers over this. There is no competition here between Tivo and D*. If you want to get HD you will have to ditch your Tivo box in a couple years anyway. In the meantime, if the software worked, it would cost them little to send it out compared to them losing their high end customers. Most people get their stuff from D* when they sign up. Once the D* HD box is ready they will not be sending out Tivo. Tivo is gone from the D* world, it just doesn't know it yet. You can't compete with dead.

Of course it would not be a complete rewrite, but they might have made it a low priority to work on given that it doesn't seem like their HD box is coming out on time(I can't find a hint of it actually working) and they want to focus on that.

Do we know that D* has the source? D* may not have the legal right to alter the source. It could be Tivo that is dragging their feet. I have no idea. All I know is that D* made their own because they felt Tivo charged too much, and I hate to say this, but it seems that the other providers think so too. If Tivo is reduced to standalone boxes, unfortunately they will not last anyway. That will be a sad, sad day.


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## richierich

Tivo is under contract to write the source code and it has already been done for the other non HD devices. All they would have to do is pay Tivo to extend the 6.2 for the HR10-250 which wouldn't take more than 3 or 4 months to complete. It has been alot more time than that when they said it would come out for the HR10-250 shortly after the SD DVRs had been completed. Well that was a long time ago and we are not seeing it. So much for D* and their BS, it is just a stall game or they would give us a tentative date. That is the key, there is no tentative date and there will never be one.

Most customers have so much money tied up with D* that they wouldn't dare leave because of having to remove everything and start over with someone else, the expense alone would keep me from doing it. So I am stuck with D*. However, my 2 HR10-250s will be able to record HD content via my OTA antenna for a long time so why would I want to give them up or trade them. I don't pay for the OTA, it's free.

The only reason I would buy their new DVR is to enhance my system and give me backup but not if I have to pay D* alot for their new DVR, then have to sign up for a new 2 year committment (which is what is rumored to be) and then have to pay for the HD Locals.

I can understand a guy in Podunk, North Dakota having to do this if he can't get HD locals via OTA such as I can but for me I will enjoy my 2 HR10-250s for years to come and I may buy another one very soon for my upstairs bedroom.


----------



## Lee L

richierich said:


> Tivo is under contract to write the source code and it has already been done for the other non HD devices. All they would have to do is pay Tivo to extend the 6.2 for the HR10-250 which wouldn't take more than 3 or 4 months to complete. It has been alot more time than that when they said it would come out for the HR10-250 shortly after the SD DVRs had been completed. Well that was a long time ago and we are not seeing it. So much for D* and their BS, it is just a stall game or they would give us a tentative date. That is the key, there is no tentative date and there will never be one.


THe worst part is that the SW is done and was demonstrated on an HR10-250 at CES in Feb of 2005. For some reason, they never decided to release it. There are rumors that there were still lost of bugs to get worked out, of course the theory that they intentionally are no releasing it so their DVR looks better, etc. Only DirecTv knows for sure.

But, like you I am planning on using my 10-250s for a while now and will just deal with the slow menus.


----------



## drewcipher

I still don't understand the worry about 2 year comittment. You just said you are tied up and won't leave them, so who cares? Is it principle? Also, I haven't read their contract, have you? We all know lawyers can find loopholes. Their may no longer be any obligation for Tivo to do anything for D*


----------



## jschmidt

drewcipher said:


> All I know is that D* made their own because they felt Tivo charged too much, and I hate to say this, but it seems that the other providers think so too. If Tivo is reduced to standalone boxes, unfortunately they will not last anyway. That will be a sad, sad day.


Unless, of course, TiVo wins their suit against Echostar (is that the Defendant?). If they win, they will receive licensing fees from everyone who makes a DVR. That will really level the playing field. It might not be cheaper for providers to develop their own technology any longer and paying a license to TiVo for their software might be more ecconomical than licensing from others such as NDS.

It will be interesting...


----------



## bidger

jschmidt said:


> Unless, of course, TiVo wins their suit against Echostar (is that the Defendant?). If they win, they will receive licensing fees from everyone who makes a DVR.


So you're certain that Echostar can't/won't appeal a decision in TiVo's favor?


----------



## jschmidt

bidger said:


> So you're certain that Echostar can't/won't appeal a decision in TiVo's favor?


Picky, picky, picky. Everyone on this board is *so literal*!  Of course Echostar would appeal any such decision. But, a win is still a win. It would set the stage for a new infusion of cash for TiVo including fees from patent infringement as well as new license deals with other companies, which are not currently found to be infinging. TiVo would definitely have new leverage to use in any negotiations.


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## richierich

What I was trying to say was that it doesn't mean anything to me but to those who can't access HD locals via OTA then it is important to them.


----------



## ElectricPickle

TiVo and DirecTV extend contract 
By Marguerite Reardon
http://news.com.com/TiVo+and+DirecTV+extend+contract/2100-1038_3-6060475.html

Story last modified Wed Apr 12 11:56:44 PDT 2006 
TiVo and DirecTV said Wednesday that they will extend their commercial agreement for three years. 
The agreement will allow existing DirecTV customers using the TiVo digital video recorder to continue to receive maintenance and support from DirecTV. As part of the agreement, TiVo and DirecTV also said they wouldn't sue each other over patent rights.
TiVo, which introduced DVRs to the market, has been struggling to turn a profit. The company's 4.4 million subscribers have mostly come from its deal with DirecTV. Last year, DirecTV said it would stop marketing and selling TiVo's digital recorders to its satellite TV subscribers starting in 2007. Instead DirecTV is developing a device with NDS Group.
Since then, TiVo has been scrambling to differentiate its product and strike other distribution deals. Last year, it announced it was working with Comcast, and a new TiVo product is due later this year for Comcast subscribers.
Murray Arenson, an analyst at Ferris Baker Watts, cautioned that the DirecTV contract extension doesn't indicate that the satellite TV provider has changed its mind about the value of TiVo's product. Instead, it's an admission by DirecTV that it needs more time to transition its customers beyond the 2007 cutoff date, he said. 
Ultimately, TiVo will likely end up in a worse position from this deal, since it now seems unlikely that DirecTV will license intellectual property from TiVo, he said.

"The extension of the deal doesn't bode well for TiVo," Arenson said. "For the next three years, all TiVo gets is a dwindling customer base from DirecTV. And the company has put to rest any possibility of getting licensing fees for its technology from DirecTV."
TiVo is currently suing satellite TV provider EchoStar Communications for allegedly infringing on a patent that defines how digital video recorders work. A TiVo victory in the EchoStar patent case could pave the way for the company to extract royalties from other DVR makers. But because the company is already working with Comcast and has now agreed not to sue DirecTV, TiVo may have fewer options for potential licensees.
"If TiVo wins the EchoStar case, all of sudden they could have this massive addressable market for licensing their technology," Arenson said. "But at the same time they are pairing down that potential market."

Copyright ©1995-2006 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved


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## kkluba

ElectricPickle said:


> TiVo and DirecTV extend contract
> By Marguerite Reardon
> http://news.com.com/TiVo+and+DirecTV+extend+contract/2100-1038_3-6060475.html


So does this bring any hope of the 6.2 update? Gotta have your dreams


----------



## newsposter

just activated another hdtivo last night. It apparently already had F software on it. The dial in was less than 4 min. so i doubt it updated during that time. Is that a pretty good assurance this is a newer unit? any ideas when they started shipping F software out?


----------



## MichaelK

kkluba said:


> So does this bring any hope of the 6.2 update? Gotta have your dreams


fat chance still.

...although Dan collins is saying the HR20 is looking like 2007 at this point.....


----------



## MikeE.

newsposter said:


> any ideas when they started shipping F software out?


About 12 or 13 months ago? Seems like I've had 3.1.5f for about that long.


----------



## DVRaholic

MichaelK said:


> fat chance still.
> 
> ...although Dan collins is saying the HR20 is looking like 2007 at this point.....


He says it here....

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4522678#post4522678

Hes also saying that with the Tivo extension we now* "might"* get 6.2 !!!!

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4523281#post4523281


----------



## drew2k

If a new version came to the HR10-250 with the features in 6.2, wouldn't the HD version have to be slightly different? Unless I'm mistaken, only the HR10-250 has the Closed Caption and Aspect Setting options on the Video menu. Could this have been a reason the rollout of 6.2 was not sent to the HD-TiVos? 

I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ... the current method of drilling down through menus blows! (How would I implement it? Make it an option on the Info menu, just like there are currently options for Parental Controls, Messages, Audio, etc.)


----------



## sdchrgrboy

drew2k said:


> If a new version came to the HR10-250 with the features in 6.2, wouldn't the HD version have to be slightly different? Unless I'm mistaken, only the HR10-250 has the Closed Caption and Aspect Setting options on the Video menu. Could this have been a reason the rollout of 6.2 was not sent to the HD-TiVos?
> 
> I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ... the current method of drilling down through menus blows! (How would I implement it? Make it an option on the Info menu, just like there are currently options for Parental Controls, Messages, Audio, etc.)


Who even uses closed captioning? Less than !% of D* Tivo users?


----------



## drew2k

sdchrgrboy said:


> Who even uses closed captioning? Less than !% of D* Tivo users?


Umm, I do. Duh. Hence my post about it. 

You should search for some of the threads in the HD forum about the inadequacies of the CC feature on the HR10-250, and you'd be surprised at how many other people here use it.


----------



## Arcady

I thought most people who used CC used the decoder built into most modern TV sets. I wasn't aware that satellite receivers or Tivos even had that capability. Can't you use the CC in your TV easier than the one in Tivo?

As a side note, if my HD tivo updates to 6.2, I will order another one the next day. I can't be the only one that is waiting for this upgrade to buy more units.


----------



## drew2k

Most TV's can use the native CC mode to display CC, but that doesn't work with the HR10-250, as the CC info is not passed to the TV. This is why TiVo built it into the HR10-250. For a similar reason, DirecTV also built CC capability into their H10 (H20?) HiDef (non-DVR) receiver - I think it has something to do with the signal type. Hopefully someone can come along and explain this better. 

Anyone wanting to use CC on the HR10-250 has to pause their show and then go through several sub-menus to turn it on or off, which is really cumbersome. The alternative is to change the output resolution to 480i and then the TV can decode the CC, but when you're watching a Hi-Def program, that kind of defeats the purpose! 

Hopefully you can see that CC on the HR10-250 is not handled well, and why I would hope that any form of 6.2 coming this way would make CC easier.


----------



## Arcady

Well, I don't use CC, but I have no objection making it easier to use. Perhaps they could even just have a discreet code for it that could be used with a universal remote.

I guess the CC stuff is not included in component or HDMI when in HD mode? You'd think that CC would be part of the spec for those modes. Since my projector doesn't even have CC, I'd never have known about this limitation, even if I used CC. In fact, all of my sets do not have built-in CC decoders. I don't own an actual TV set, just a bunch of monitors.


----------



## boku68

drew2k said:


> I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ... the current method of drilling down through menus blows! (How would I implement it? Make it an option on the Info menu, just like there are currently options for Parental Controls, Messages, Audio, etc.)


Glad to hear someone else complaining about this. They couldn't have buried this feature any deeper. I think my old Zenith DTV1080 had a CC button on the remote. When I forget to disable it, my wife will call me at work so I can walk her through all of the screens to turn it off because she can never remember where it is hidden.


----------



## newsposter

MikeE. said:


> About 12 or 13 months ago? Seems like I've had 3.1.5f for about that long.


Oh so it's really an old machine  I guess what i meant to ask...were any HDtivos sent out factory with F on them?



drew2k said:


> I can only hope that if we get an upgrade there is an easier way to turn CC on and off on the HR10-250 ...


funny you mention CC..the other day i was piping a picture to my dvd burner and the CC was working. Is that because it was in 480i?

edit oops, should read whole thread first


----------



## bigrig

DVRaholic said:


> Hes also saying that with the Tivo extension we now* "might"* get 6.2 !!!!
> 
> http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=4523281#post4523281


Sweeet! My hope has been restored!!! 



> I'm being told that one of the likely outcomes of the new agreement will be a version of 6.2 for the HR-10s.
> __________________
> Dan Collins
> DBSForums Administrator


----------



## phox_mulder

drew2k said:


> I think it has something to do with the signal type. Hopefully someone can come along and explain this better.
> The alternative is to change the output resolution to 480i and then the TV can decode the CC, but when you're watching a Hi-Def program, that kind of defeats the purpose!


Yes, Digital CC is different the the old Analag CC we are used to.

Analong is sent in one of the picture lines, line 21 to be exact, not shown on properly working TV's, Closed Captioning decoders can decode the signal on this line.
(If your TV is not working right, you might be able to see a line right above the picture that looks like morse code, a white flashing line moving across the screen, this is the closed captioning among other things)

Digital being well, Digital, sends it as part of the transmission, since there is 1080i or 780p for programming then 480i for commercials, switching back and forth, the current closed captioning decoders wouldn't be able to do it all, so they had to come up with a new "better" way.

This is so new (took the government a while to agree on a standard) that many stations aren't even using the Digital CC yet, still relying on the analog CC and just inserting it into the digital signal.

I'm actually surprised that the HR10-250 has the different options.

phox


----------



## drew2k

Thanks for explaining it phox. I just _knew_ someone would wander along soon enough to fill in the blanks!


----------



## mikeb33

Does anybody know if when there is a major update like this, do they add remote codes to the list. I am sick of using 2 remotes for my Maxent 26" LCD


----------



## bigrig

A software update to the box will not affect the codes built into the remote.


----------



## pendragn

bigrig said:


> A software update to the box will not affect the codes built into the remote.


Right, it will only affect the codes the TiVo shows. If you want a TiVo remote with new codes buy one at tivo.com. I know the one I bought there handles my TV differently than the one that came with my HR10-250.

tk


----------



## Mark Lopez

mikeb33 said:


> Does anybody know if when there is a major update like this, do they add remote codes to the list. I am sick of using 2 remotes for my Maxent 26" LCD


With all of the great universal remotes out there (i.e. MX-500 etc), why not just get one of those and be done with it? Personally I would not want to use the TiVo remote to control other things.


----------



## mikeb33

The Maxent TV I speak of is in my office and there is no other gear to control, so a Harmony remote seems a bit excessive. 
If I bought a new tivo remote that had the codes in it, but the software in my tivo didn't update the code numbers, how would I know which to use?


----------



## richierich

I'm still betting that we will not get the 6.2 upgrade because D* does not want to spend any more resources on this box to make it look any better when it will be competing with their new DVR coming out in 2007 (which is what I predicted a year ago). When developing new technology and code, the senior managers never take into consideration all of the contingencies that we have to think about and deal with in the programming phase of the product. So the amount of development and testing is greatly underestimated and always causes an unrealistic launch date which keeps getting pushed back to where it should have been in the first place.

I'm saying it ain't going to happen but I sure as Hell wish it would.


----------



## drewcipher

It isn't competing though. It is replacing. I will not buy a new HR10 at this point knowing that it could be replaced in 2 or 3 years. The timeframe that Tivo will be supported by D* is not endless. Once they release their HR20, I would think they would not activate new Tivo subscribers. They can offer Tivo users a free swap for a limited time and then say it will cost. This will get a number of users to switch right away. Then just stop providing Tivo service and there is no competition.


----------



## Gotchaa

richierich said:


> I'm still betting that we will not get the 6.2 upgrade because D* does not want to spend any more resources on this box to make it look any better when it will be competing with their new DVR coming out in 2007 (which is what I predicted a year ago). When developing new technology and code, the senior managers never take into consideration all of the contingencies that we have to think about and deal with in the programming phase of the product. So the amount of development and testing is greatly underestimated and always causes an unrealistic launch date which keeps getting pushed back to where it should have been in the first place.
> 
> I'm saying it ain't going to happen but I sure as Hell wish it would.


Well seeing how TiVo won the first round of their patent suit against EchoStar, and that they are encouraging other companies to license their technology or parts of it or face similar action, who knows what D*'s agreement to support TiVo for 3 more years entails. It is possible that TiVo agreed not to sue D* for their HD DVR technology provided they roll out and support updates to the HR10-250 and other models...it would be a good strategy, but who knows, let's just hope it's coming.


----------



## tase2

Gotchaa said:


> Well seeing how TiVo won the first round of their patent suit against EchoStar, and that they are encouraging other companies to license their technology or parts of it or face similar action, who knows what D*'s agreement to support TiVo for 3 more years entails. It is possible that TiVo agreed not to sue D* for their HD DVR technology provided they roll out and support updates to the HR10-250 and other models...it would be a good strategy, but who knows, let's just hope it's coming.


That sounds like a dream, but hey there is nothing wrong with dreaming :up:


----------



## richierich

Just because Tivo doesn't sign a deal with D* doesn't mean that the HR10-250 will not function anymore. It just won't get any future updates. It will still function for years and years to come. I will not swap any of my 3 HR10-250s out for the HR20 until I have seen that it is relatively bug free and works as advertised (I'll believe it when I and many others have seen it in action for a period of time). Then I will get a nice discount on the new DVR so how can you lose?


----------



## drewcipher

Without a deal D* could turn off your Tivo function if they so choose. I do not want to change, but they could make it highly unplesant to stay with the Tivo box. They could raise the price for Tivo, they can turn it off, they can make a sweetheart deal for a limited time to get a discount on the new box and then say sorry you need to pay full price for the HR20. 

I am not saying they will, just they have options to get most of us off Tivo in the next 2-3 years. This to me negates the competition argument as long term, Tivo will be eliminated from D*(unless they suddenly kiss and make up)


----------



## Guindalf

drewcipher said:


> Without a deal D* could turn off your Tivo function if they so choose. I do not want to change, but they could make it highly unplesant to stay with the Tivo box. They could raise the price for Tivo, they can turn it off, they can make a sweetheart deal for a limited time to get a discount on the new box and then say sorry you need to pay full price for the HR20.
> 
> I am not saying they will, just they have options to get most of us off Tivo in the next 2-3 years. This to me negates the competition argument as long term, Tivo will be eliminated from D*(unless they suddenly kiss and make up)


What D* _could _or _could not_ do is irrelevant. There is no reason to believe that they will do anything to stop you using your TiVo for years to come. There are many people on this forum still using their Ultimate TV boxes quite happily.

However, you may want to change your box for newer technologies like MPEG-4 local channels or interactive features not available with the TiVo-based box. Especially once D* iron out some of the bugs in their NDS-based DVRs (which they almost certainly need to do before releasing the HD version!).


----------



## MarcusInMD

The HR10-250 will be usless as will any other older receivers once DirecTV switches everything and mean EVERYTHING over to MPEG4. It's going to happen. MPEG2 streams won't be up there for ever. Now, given DirecTV's track record on moving forward with new technologies this may not happen for quite a while but once it does the HR10 will be a door stop.


----------



## newsposter

MarcusInMD said:


> The HR10-250 will be usless as will any other older receivers once DirecTV switches everything and mean EVERYTHING over to MPEG4. It's going to happen. MPEG2 streams won't be up there for ever. Now, given DirecTV's track record on moving forward with new technologies this may not happen for quite a while but once it does the HR10 will be a door stop.


well i would hope they wouldnt mind letting me pay the 5 dollar mirroring fee for just my OTA recordings. I'd think they would actually be making out $$$ by letting people like me do so for $5 a month.

Is guide data in proprietary mpeg2 format? in other words, when they turn off mpe2 100%, is that a reason to not be able to get the guide data for just OTA?


----------



## Guindalf

I think the chances of D* going totally MPEG-4 BEFORE my HR10 dies are extremely remote!


----------



## TyroneShoes

newsposter said:


> ...Is guide data in proprietary mpeg2 format? in other words, when they turn off mpe2 100%, is that a reason to not be able to get the guide data for just OTA?


The guide data is not video, and therefore does not need MPEG-2 compression, which is just for the actual media content. The Tivo takes that data and displays it as a video guide simply for convenience. "Turning off MPEG-2" is not like flipping a big switch, it involves upgrading each channel individually to a new encoder and routing its path to a Ka uplink, so it is more a long, gradual process or a set of many similar technical processes rather than a one-time event, which means they can do that channel by channel.



newsposter said:


> well i would hope they wouldnt mind letting me pay the 5 dollar mirroring fee for just my OTA recordings. I'd think they would actually be making out $$$ by letting people like me do so for $5 a month...


I agree. People usually take the path of least resistance. DTV has the option of selling you basic service plus an extra 5-6 bucks for HD locals, or basic service and an extra 5-6 bucks for you to record them OTA yourself. That's win-win for them and for us. Their only other viable option is to cripple the HR10 for OTA, which would just piss off anyone who owned one and force them to cable, so I don't see them being that brainless.

It's important to know when to use the carrot and when to use the stick when motivating your customer base. Usually the carrot works best. They would really have to think putting that $1.25 a month that goes to Tivo up against the $40-100 bucks a month they get from a customer would have to be worth the risk to force us to abandon a PVR we love in favor of their baby. They'd have to be certifiably insane to think that risk is worth it.


----------



## newsposter

in other words, there's no technological reason for dtv to turn off the OTA guide and allow us to record on a 5 dollar mirrored receiver


----------



## MarcusInMD

I don't think that not turning off the guide or even allowing us to record OTA HD signals is a big deal. If it does not record all of the HDTV stuff up there its a door stop to me and probably to most other HDTV users.


----------



## Gotchaa

The OTA tuner in the HR10 sucks anyhow, the Mpeg4 receiver I have get's all the OTA channels with no problems, HR10 drops (this is in Los Angeles and I've been through 4 OTA antenna's).


----------



## Arcady

Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?


----------



## joetoronto

Arcady said:


> Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?


well....if he did, it would suck.


----------



## AbMagFab

Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?


----------



## Lee L

Gotchaa said:


> The OTA tuner in the HR10 sucks anyhow, the Mpeg4 receiver I have get's all the OTA channels with no problems, HR10 drops (this is in Los Angeles and I've been through 4 OTA antenna's).


Actually, the tuner tends to choke on signals that are too powerful. Lots of people have taken boosters out of their setup or installed attenuators and gotten much better reception. It also is not the best with multipath.


----------



## bigrig

AbMagFab said:


> Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?


Do you have any sources with DirecTV that are supporting this opinion?

Here's what I'm looking at:


> I'm being told that one of the likely outcomes of the new agreement will be a version of 6.2 for the HR-10s.
> __________________
> Dan Collins
> DBSForums Administrator


----------



## Lee L

I will say, I am a littel more optimistic. Whereas before, I would say I was 99.99999999% sure we would never see it. I am probably 90% only because Dan has good connections with DirecTV going back a long time and would not say it if he did not have some trust in his source. Also, Earl here (Ebonovich) is hearing the same thing and I also think he knows someone and would not pass it on if it were not what he was hearing. (not to say they might not be wrong in the end because the decision may be out of their sources hands and could get changed at the last minute). 

Clearly, there was some reason why a version was not put out not too long after 6.2 went out to teh SD units. Has that underlying reason changed, who knows?


----------



## newsposter

MarcusInMD said:


> I don't think that not turning off the guide or even allowing us to record OTA HD signals is a big deal. If it does not record all of the HDTV stuff up there its a door stop to me and probably to most other HDTV users.


i think you should qualify and say "most other hdtv users that don't get in adequate OTA"  My reasoning is that for people like me that get in everything they need OTA (actually more than directv offers or likely ever will) and dont care about the HDpak, the hdtivo is just fine as is. There are a few of us that care about wb/upn/pbs I'm guessing.



Arcady said:


> Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?


isn't that what the hr20 is..sort of ? Or did he mean standalone? (of course OTA is mpeg2 so then i see why you responded and will add my own rolleyes )


----------



## cheer

Perhaps what he meant was that the HR20 supposedly has a newer-generation ATSC tuner; surfing around avsforum suggests that the newer-gen tuners can lock on signals that older ones had trouble with due to multipath and/or lack of signal strength.

I dunno, myself. My HR10-250 and my 8th-gen Panny both seem to have similar results -- in Chicago I can get everything except the local CBS affiliate, which is broadcasting VHF-Lo, is 45 miles away from me, and my stupid antenna is in the attic and I'm too lazy to move it. 

--chris


----------



## GalenMD

I have a theory (maybe wishful thinking):

What if they are waiting to upgrade to 6.2 after the new units ship? That way, if 6.2 causes some crashes/problems with some units, they will only offer replacements (of those under warranty or service contract) with the new units. Otherwise, they would have to replace them with HR10-250's. Do they have enough of these refurb units lying around?


----------



## Adam1115

AbMagFab said:


> Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?


Regardless of whether or not we are going to get it, I can agree the thread should die. Why rehash this again? IF we get it, we obbiously won't know about it UNTIL we do. And them I'm sure someone here will post.


----------



## Mikey_C




----------



## Rombaldi

AbMagFab said:


> Okay folks, we're never getting 6.x/7.x on the HR10. Can this thread be left to die already?


I believe Dan Collins before I would believe the blatent pessimism you've shown on this thread.


----------



## newsposter

i prefer this one


----------



## AbMagFab

We've been told dozens of times by lots of people with "connections" that 6.2 is coming soon. Heck, just check the beginning of this thread.

DirecTV has an agreement with Tivo *now*. Extending it three years doesn't change their reasons for not releasing 6.2. They didn't want to release it before, and they still don't.

However with the impending release of the Series 3, DirecTV has lots of reasons to hold out a carrot. But they haven't followed through on most of their other carrots, so...

The past (not Dan Collins) is the best predictor of the future.

(And it's realism, not pessimism.)


----------



## MichaelK

I respect Dans comments immensely- I assume everything he says is a fact. But I really find it difficult to believe at this point they will release 6.x. Its been years, there was even a demo of 6.x on an HR10 at CES as some point (maybe it was even CES 2005?- anyone remember?). So why would it be likely? Either they could release the working code Tivo has given them or not. It seems like its a pretty straightforward answer- flip the switch or dont. If the negotiations involved a stipulation or decision to deploy the code it would be a bit more definitive than likely -wouldnt it be? 

Sounds to me like:
Tivo said OK OK we wont sue you for patent infringement but throw us a bone and deploy 6.2 
Directv said  well we cant promise anything but if you sign away your rights to sue well try to get that done. 
Tivo signed. 
Ruperts minions went in the back room and laughed about deploying 6.2. (although they may have been former NDS execs, in which case they would have laughed openly in TiVos face after they suckered them.)


----------



## rminsk

MichaelK said:


> Its been years,


The 6.2 release watch thread I posted was on 2/27/05 and they started the test rollout in Los Angeles around 3/1/05. If I remember right the 6.2 rollout completed about 6 months after that. So it has been around 7 months since 6.2 completed rolling out.


----------



## miss_my_utv

MichaelK said:


> Sounds to me like:
> Tivo said OK OK we wont sue you for patent infringement but throw us a bone and deploy 6.2
> Directv said  well we cant promise anything but if you sign away your rights to sue well try to get that done.
> Tivo signed.
> Ruperts minions went in the back room and laughed about deploying 6.2. (although they may have been former NDS execs, in which case they would have laughed openly in TiVos face after they suckered them.)


Yeah, and after they got through those tough negotiations on the issue of primary importance to Tivo, they could concentrate on coming to agreements on secondary stuff - like ongoing service and maintenance fees!



MichaelK said:


> I respect Dans comments immensely- I assume everything he says is a fact. But I really find it difficult to believe at this point they will release 6.x. Its been years, there was even a demo of 6.x on an HR10 at CES as some point (maybe it was even CES 2005?- anyone remember?). So why would it be likely? Either they could release the working code Tivo has given them or not. It seems like its a pretty straightforward answer- flip the switch or dont. If the negotiations involved a stipulation or decision to deploy the code it would be a bit more definitive than likely -wouldnt it be?


A complete SWAG on my part, but a possible reason it may be more " 'likely' " is the extension of the maintenance agreement. "Working code" often doesn't when widely deployed (at least not perfectly), especially on new (or different) hardware. Could be folks didn't want to risk it with a short window on the previous maintenance agreement. Now there's more time (and $s) to deal with any issues.

Again, just a SWAG. I really don't know enough about the mystical 6.2 upgrade to get all religious about it, so haven't really followed things...


----------



## STL

I think it's more likely we will see DISH Network partner with TiVo before we see 6.2 on our HR10-250s. In all honestly I don't think either is all that likely, but I did send a quick note to DISH Network (via this link ) to make it clear that I would switch to them if they partnered with TiVo. If enough DirecTiVo owners did the same maybe that might have have an effect.


----------



## alv

newsposter said:


> i prefer this one


Best post of this thread - by far


----------



## Gotchaa

Arcady said:


> Um, you have an MPEG4 OTA receiver? Uh... huh?


Mpeg4 receiver=H20, with OTA= 5th genertation 8VSB

Reception is much better with H20, any multipath issues I have with the HR10 are gone.


----------



## Arcady

It's still not OTA MPEG4, since that doesn't exist.


----------



## alv

maybe the confusion is that MPEG 4 receivers have both satellite and OTA MPEG 2 capability as well


----------



## MichaelK

rminsk said:


> The 6.2 release watch thread I posted was on 2/27/05 and they started the test rollout in Los Angeles around 3/1/05. If I remember right the 6.2 rollout completed about 6 months after that. So it has been around 7 months since 6.2 completed rolling out.


I meant Its been YEARS since the HR10 was developed with old code and should have been updated. Its been over a year since 6.2 was complete and released in the wild (and that likely sat around for months and months or YEARS also) so presumably the Directv development team at Tivo has had at least that time to work 100% on the HR10 6.2 (if they didnt start on it earlier). Tivo has frequently built their software versions to work on all boxes as evidenced by the ability to put SA software with HMO on the SD directivos for YEARS now. So its been years since the HR10 should have had a software revision ready.

Im not talking about when Directv decides to do things Im talking about how long they COULD have been doing things.

Regardless 6.x was shown at CES alive and well and working on an HR10- so its done. Directv has just decided for whatever reason not to deploy it and thats my point. They arent thinking about it, they have had the ability top release it already and have already decided not to. Had they been waiting for the new agreement to decide to deploy it, they would have decided with the agreement to deploy it- not some bland statement that they likely will deploy it.


----------



## MichaelK

miss_my_utv said:


> Yeah, and after they got through those tough negotiations on the issue of primary importance to Tivo, they could concentrate on coming to agreements on secondary stuff - like ongoing service and maintenance fees!
> 
> A complete SWAG on my part, but a possible reason it may be more " 'likely' " is the extension of the maintenance agreement. "Working code" often doesn't when widely deployed (at least not perfectly), especially on new (or different) hardware. Could be folks didn't want to risk it with a short window on the previous maintenance agreement. Now there's more time (and $s) to deal with any issues.
> 
> Again, just a SWAG. I really don't know enough about the mystical 6.2 upgrade to get all religious about it, so haven't really followed things...


I didnt say it was the paramount negotiating point for TiVo- hence the throw us a bone comment  as in please do us a favor since we gave you everything you want in continued support and a promise not to sue.

Your point about not releasing code into the wild right before a potential lack of support is something to ponder, but they could have released it in February and had a year to deploy it to the 1 or 2 hundred thousand HR10s that exist and had plenty of time to kick the tires before the contract was originally scheduled to end. And as I said above, TiVo could have given them a working version months and months if not years ago if Directv had wanted to be bothered.

I wont flat out say I think Dan or his source is wrong, but just as his source says its likely but wont say certain, my ignorant unknowing opinion is that it is unlikely but I wont say certainly not.

I hope for the diehards I am wrong but at this point I think Im pretty well decided that Im bailing on Directv as soon as the Series 3 comes out so unless they roll it out tomorrow theres not much matters to me. I need a second HD DVR. Even if 6.x is deployed and we can hack MRV onto it Im still not going to pay $400 to lease a second unit from them get stuck for another 2 years and have no ability to get MPEG4 content when I can just get a couple Series 3 and get everything I want and stay on the leading edge with Tivo. But maybe 6.x getting rolled will benefit me- then I can get a few more bucks for my used HR10 on ebay when the time comes. So on second though I really hope it does pop out. I still think it unlikely but I hope I am wrong.


----------



## Syzygy

PJO1966 said:


> Just to be clear... this ["Clear and Delete Everything"] also deletes all your recordings. I know it's obvious since it states "everything", but I just wanted to be clear. I really should have done this when I was down to less than one page of recordings. Now I have 5+.


I didn't have any important shows in Now Playing at the time that I cleared everything.

Next time (a year or two from now) maybe I'll try "Clear Program Data and To Do List" instead.

I was guessing that "Clear and Delete Everything" would have the same effect as defragmenting my hard drive. But who knows? Maybe TiVo's ongoing garbage-collection algorithm works so well there wasn't any significant disk fragmentation. :up:


----------



## Mavrick22




----------



## miss_my_utv

MichaelK said:


> I didnt say it was the paramount negotiating point for TiVo- hence the throw us a bone comment  as in please do us a favor since we gave you everything you want in continued support and a promise not to sue.


Oops, I forgot the  in that part of my post - sorry!


----------



## Arcady

I wish D* would just say if they are releasing 6.2 for the HR10. As soon as they say they will not, some hacker will make 6.2 work in about 17 minutes, and we can get on with life.


----------



## Lee L

Arcady said:


> I wish D* would just say if they are releasing 6.2 for the HR10. As soon as they say they will not, some hacker will make 6.2 work in about 17 minutes, and we can get on with life.


Hackers have tried for some time to make 6.2 work on the HR10, but so far no success.


----------



## Gotchaa

Arcady said:


> It's still not OTA MPEG4, since that doesn't exist.


Yes it's not, that's not what I meant. Local Broadcasters send compressed MPEG2 signals, and likely will for years to come.

That doesn't change the fact that the OTA tuner in the HR10-250 sucks compared to the H20.


----------



## GalenMD

Okay. I hope I don't get flamed for this. I have never posted a rumor or misleading information here before. Here goes (with a little backround):

I work near Fox studios. I was always hoping that I would get the opportunity to meet an executive with enough authority to research this issue for me, but I had no luck. Everyone who came in was only involved in Fox stuff. Then, a VERY close relative of mine got a job with D*. I got excited that maybe I would have an inside source, but she had no contacts at all with anyone who is involved with DVRs or equipment. Darn!

Finally, somebody walks in to my office who clearly has a direct line of communication with those "in the know." Now, I have no idea if this information is supposed to be kept confidential or not. Actually, I would have no idea why they would want to keep it confidential. But _just in case_, I have edited the response to "protect the innocent." I only promise you this: I cannot imagine a more reputable source than this person. He is definitely a higher up with direct knowledge of these things. If I ask and get permission to say anything, I will release my source. I spoke to him several times over the last few weeks and received this email:



> Good News! It's in test, so most likely in one to two months it will start to show up in the fielded boxes. It will fix the slowness issue...


I have become a major doubter of 6.2 being released. I lost all hope months ago. Now, I have faith again.

Please don't ask me more as I know nothing besides this. I already pushed him to get this information for me. This is all I know and I will not ask him for any more information unless we happen to speak for other reasons.


----------



## bigrig

Oh, wait! I think the horse was only sleeping, it's starting to come around! 

Thanks for the info, Galen.


----------



## bgut1

GalenMD said:


> Okay. I hope I don't get flamed for this. I have never posted a rumor or misleading information here before. Here goes (with a little backround):
> 
> I work near Fox studios. I was always hoping that I would get the opportunity to meet an executive with enough authority to research this issue for me, but I had no luck. Everyone who came in was only involved in Fox stuff. Then, a VERY close relative of mine got a job with D*. I got excited that maybe I would have an inside source, but she had no contacts at all with anyone who is involved with DVRs or equipment. Darn!
> 
> Finally, somebody walks in to my office who clearly has a direct line of communication with those "in the know." Now, I have no idea if this information is supposed to be kept confidential or not. Actually, I would have no idea why they would want to keep it confidential. But _just in case_, I have edited the response to "protect the innocent." I only promise you this: I cannot imagine a more reputable source than this person. He is definitely a higher up with direct knowledge of these things. If I ask and get permission to say anything, I will release my source. I spoke to him several times over the last few weeks and received this email:
> 
> I have become a major doubter of 6.2 being released. I lost all hope months ago. Now, I have faith again.
> 
> Please don't ask me more as I know nothing besides this. I already pushed him to get this information for me. This is all I know and I will not ask him for any more information unless we happen to speak for other reasons.


This corroborates the information I received from DirecTv customer retention. The person I spoke with was a supervisor in that department.


----------



## Crypter

I am pretty happy with my HR10-250 I get all my locals through my OTA antenna. I tried looking through this thread and I did not find the info I was looking for. Basically what will this 6.2 Upgrade do for owners of the HR10-250? Why is it such a big deal? If there is already a post that explains how this helps us please point me to it. Otherwise a response would be most appreciated.


----------



## bigrig

Adds folders to the Now Playing list, and speeds up the interface.

When you first get the Tivo it's bearable, but after you have it for a while it can take ~5 minutes to add a recording or rearrange the Season Passes.


----------



## phox_mulder

bigrig said:


> . . .and speeds up the interface.
> 
> When you first get the Tivo it's bearable, but after you have it for a while it can take ~5 minutes to add a recording or rearrange the Season Passes.


That right there makes 6.2 worth it to me.

I noticed the slowness right out of the box, comparing it to my 2 previous TiVo's.

Now a little over a month later, it's very noticeable, so much so that I'm not recording as much as I'd like to, as that would add Season Passes which would slow it down even more.

phox


----------



## MarcusInMD

Ughh...Here we go again with..it's in testing and maybe in 1 to 2 months...sigh. I want to believe, I really do...but....

BTW, I am not doubting your source but it seems that so many have heard from "higher ups" at DirecTV with what seems like the same one liner..

Let's talk at the end of May or June.


----------



## PJO1966

Dr. Galen... That's one hell of a long disclaimer...


----------



## GalenMD

MarcusInMD said:


> Ughh...Here we go again with..it's in testing and maybe in 1 to 2 months...sigh. I want to believe, I really do...but....
> 
> BTW, I am not doubting your source but it seems that so many have heard from "higher ups" at DirecTV with what seems like the same one liner..
> 
> Let's talk at the end of May or June.


I do understand your skepticism. However, this is not your typical source. These people are not involved in any form of customer service (CSR or technical support). This came from the main engineering department, the ones that are actually doing the testing. This is definitely good information.

The only caveat is that they are still calling it "testing." What if it ultimately fails testing? From the tone of things, they sound fairly confident that the upgrade will get pushed out soon. G-d I hope.


----------



## GalenMD

PJO1966 said:


> Dr. Galen... That's one hell of a long disclaimer...


Yep. I'm just aware of the deep skepticism here (that I have shared until today).


----------



## JRAllas

I'm sure this had to had to be mentioned at least 10 times in this thread, but I don't have the patience or time to read through that many posts. In a couple months, why would DirecTV waste resources upgrading the software for a DVR rumors say they might be abandoning in the Fall?


----------



## Arcady

Why did they waste resources updating the software on the SD units? They knew the R15 was coming, and they did it anyway. Maybe they want to stop the complaints from HR10 owners. Maybe the HR20 is being delayed, and they are worried about losing customers. And it doesn't really cost them much to deploy a new software release, since it gets fed over the satellite for almost everyone anyway.

Of course, since everything I just said makes some sense, it will probably never happen.


----------



## PJO1966

They also just signed another three year agreement with TiVo


----------



## TyroneShoes

GalenMD said:


> ...What if it ultimately fails testing? From the tone of things, they sound fairly confident that the upgrade will get pushed out soon. G-d I hope.


Failure is the nature of software testing. You only stop testing when the software is relatively no longer broken and does not break previous improvements (read: when it stops failing). IOW, it will fail regularly until it is ready, and then will hopefully fail not at all after being released, at the very worst maybe only a time or two.

And we don't want it too soon. It's much less painful to wait. Those of us who lived through the dark ages of DISH PVRs know that all too well (the nightmares have all but gone away). They were pushing a new up rev every other week, it seemed, and every single one of them seemed to break something new and was surrounded by a too many problems and too few features, and usually was plagued by a systemic problem with the upgrading process itself. And quite a few HDDs got wiped more than once. Entire archived first seasons of Alias and 24 disappeared for some owners.

There was a way to decline up revs in the software prefs, but that only delayed the inevitable for a short time, and eventully they would force the up rev down your throat whether you wanted it or not (because there were so many problems that folks were doing everything they could to prevent them, which wasn't all that effective). It was a virtual holocaust. PVR armageddon. That period lasted a couple of years, and they still haven't really got it together 3 years after that.

Tivo, on the other hand, seems to have very few up revs, each is significant, and they rarely break anything. Their track record is great, specifically because they take their sweet time. It also helps that they have great programmers, which is apparently rare in this business.


----------



## codespy

bgut1 said:


> This corroborates the information I received from DirecTv customer retention. The person I spoke with was a supervisor in that department.


Me too. I had them CALL me instead of email. As I was interrogating her, she indicated her notes pointed to an August release if the testing worked.

Of course, I'll believe it when I see it, but have a small ray of hope.


----------



## alv

While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.


----------



## MarcusInMD

I'm still very skeptical. When it comes to companies like DirecTV. They are like dinosaurs, slam them in the tail and they react a week later to the pain. What you guys might be hearing is something that has already been decided at higher levels to not be worth the time or effort.


----------



## narrod

alv said:


> While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.


Excellent tip. It does speed things up considerably.


----------



## sluciani

alv said:


> While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.


Unfortunately, it didn't work for me. Maybe I just have too many passes? I've got 30 of them and it took about 8 minutes to move one up from the bottom to #9 at the same time I was tuned to 81 and 83, neither of which I subscribe to.

/steve


----------



## newsposter

i turned to 2 and 4 (no channels) and while it didn't take just a minute to change, i went away and came back and it was less than 5 minutes so that's pretty good with over 60 sp


----------



## joetoronto

wow, i had no idea some of you guys had so many season passes. 

all this time i've been wondering how long it would take for my units to slow down, like i've been reading here, but i only have 3 or 4 sp's on them.

am i safe to assume that they _won't_ slow down if i keep the sp's low and not come close to filling up the drives?


----------



## sluciani

joetoronto said:


> am i safe to assume that they _won't_ slow down if i keep the sp's low and not come close to filling up the drives?


Pretty safe assumption, IMHO.

/steve


----------



## Cwaters

I had a dream that I was checking my file and it said ver 6.20.03... 
Not sure if this qualifys as a good solid source for information but I DO sometimes have dreams that come true...

CW
the above is true but I'm just being silly.


----------



## richierich

Also, kill the Suggestions and that will also help. If you tune to non-existent channels then the CPU does not have to do all the work related to video streaming, etc. no overhead for that task so it is freed up to work on your Season Passes and other tasks.


----------



## jhimmel

Cwaters said:


> I had a dream that I was checking my file and it said ver 6.20.03...


FINALLY some good solid evidence from a source more reliable than a CSR.

Things are looking up.

Jim H.


----------



## joetoronto

sluciani said:


> Pretty safe assumption, IMHO.
> 
> /steve


thanks, steve.

another thing i did was i turned off suggestions soon after i got my first unit and right away with the other two.

i'm knocking on wood as i write this, i haven't experienced any slowness at all yet.


----------



## Crypter

Riddle me this..... Why has D* not upgraded the software for the HR10-250 yet?

Could it be cause the software is not working too good for the HR10-250 yet? Or is it possibly because the cost of pushing out this upgrade to D* is not worth the reward? I mean with so many skeptics out there doubting that we will ever see this upgrade. I ask you WHY? Why wouldn't they want to upgrade the HR10-250 software? I mean if it is such an obvious improvement as so many of you suggest.


----------



## zalusky

Maybe they want people to think their replacement box is zippier with more features, so they will want to leave Tivo. Now if their replacement box is delayed and the competition (Cable) will start having all these cool Tivo features they might be rethinking their position.


----------



## sluciani

zalusky said:


> Maybe they want people to think their replacement box is zippier with more features, so they will want to leave Tivo. Now if their replacement box is delayed and the competition (Cable) will start having all these cool Tivo features they might be rethinking their position.


Possibly right, but doesn't entirely make sense to me.

D*'s goal, I'm sure, is customer retention, not hardware sales. Why would they care which box you were using as long as you continued to pay them for monthly programming? By steering you away from DirecTivo, which you already have, they run the risk of losing you entirely to Comcast/Tivo, or to another cableco, via the Series 3 Tivo with Cablecard.

/steve


----------



## Syzygy

> _*alv* said:_
> While 6.2 is desired, speed can be greatly improved by tuning both tuners to non subscribed channels. I just did that to reorganize season passes and response was almost instanteous.


Contrary to the experience of *sluciani*, my HDTiVo is generally much faster when I tune to 0 and 8 first  but I don't need to do that now that I cleared everything and started over about 3 months ago.

One thing that never seems to speed up, no matter what, is the occasional long pause before responding to the Info button (to go from a program's description to its complete info). I think it's taking the time to shift new data into its very small memory cache.


----------



## joetoronto

Syzygy said:


> Contrary to the experience of *sluciani*, my HDTiVo is generally much faster when I tune to 0 and 8 first  but I don't need to do that now that I cleared everything and started over about 3 months ago.
> 
> One thing that never seems to speed up, no matter what, is the occasional long pause before responding to the Info button (to go from a program's description to its complete info). I think it's taking the time to shift new data into its very small memory cache.


that's a new one to me, Syzygy, i've never heard of that before.


----------



## zalusky

sluciani said:


> Possibly right, but doesn't entirely make sense to me.
> 
> D*'s goal, I'm sure, is customer retention, not hardware sales. Why would they care which box you were using as long as you continued to pay them for monthly programming? By steering you away from DirecTivo, which you already have, they run the risk of losing you entirely to Comcast/Tivo, or to another cableco, via the Series 3 Tivo with Cablecard.
> 
> /steve


Yes thats true when the competition has a competitive alternative. But up till now all Comcast had was junk.

The original goal of getting rid of Tivo allows them to get all the revenue and not have to pay Tivo. Also it gives them more control on the feature set of the software.

I have heard directly from Tivo people that DirectTV did not like features like HMO because they did not want you watching something that was not DirectTV provided. So the idea of songs and pictures that did not come from DirectTV means your spending time not using their product. The cell phone companies have acted that same way when it came to bluetooth and WiFi which allows you to use the phone without using the carriers minutes.

However now that the competition is about to hopefully provide realistic features similar to 7.x and higher and HD as well, there is a realistic threat. I think they are going to blink.

They also now nothing that compare to Comcasts On Demand library. The landscape will change in the next year and they need to scramble with anything they can get their hands on.


----------



## HiDefGator

Crypter said:


> Riddle me this..... Why has D* not upgraded the software for the HR10-250 yet?
> 
> Could it be cause the software is not working too good for the HR10-250 yet? Or is it possibly because the cost of pushing out this upgrade to D* is not worth the reward? I mean with so many skeptics out there doubting that we will ever see this upgrade. I ask you WHY? Why wouldn't they want to upgrade the HR10-250 software? I mean if it is such an obvious improvement as so many of you suggest.


You aren't getting the upgrade yet because upgrades take time and money. They would rather spend their time and money and QA staff bandwidth getting the new non-Tivo HD DVR tested and shipped first.


----------



## rminsk

The dead horse may not quite be dead. There are some rumors that the Series 1 DirecTiVo will be getting version "3.5" of the software. It looks like 3.5 changes the database format to the same format 6.x uses. This will be a major speed up. Some of us are going to start monitoring the satellite download stream for 3.5 slices. For the thread see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297060


----------



## vertigo235

this is indeed good news for hr10-250 owners, we just have to wait and see now


----------



## richierich

If I just live long enough I might get to actually see and get the 6.2 update.


----------



## rminsk

So the 3.5 software rollout has started on the Series 1 DirecTiVos (Sony SAT-T60, Philips DSR6000, and the Hughes GXCEBOT). A user has already reported receiving it and having it installed.

There is a web page about it on the DirecTV site now http://www.directv.com/see/landing/dvr35_upgrade.html. A really bad quote on that page is


> Are all DIRECTV DVRs receiving this 3.5 upgrade?
> No. Only DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HUGHES GXCEBOT will receive the 3.5 software upgrade. Newer DVRs with the TiVo® interface should already have upgraded software, *with the exception of the HR10-250 HD-DVR, which does not require an upgrade at this time.* Remember, a land-based phone line is needed for these upgrades to take effect.


I think the HR10-250 needs the upgrade much more than the Series 1 machines. I have both and the HR10-250 is much slower than my series 1 with a 137 gig drive in it.


----------



## Rombaldi

actually the quote is quite accurate... the HD10-250 ALREADY HAS the 3.5 software, the paragraph in question is discussing 3.5, not 6.2


----------



## rminsk

Rombaldi said:


> actually the quote is quite accurate... the HD10-250 ALREADY HAS the 3.5 software, the paragraph in question is discussing 3.5, not 6.2


But the 3.5 upgrade on the Series 1 machine seems to be changing the database format to the 6.x format. My HR10-250 only has 3.1.5...


----------



## jasch

Rombaldi said:


> actually the quote is quite accurate... the HD10-250 ALREADY HAS the 3.5 software, the paragraph in question is discussing 3.5, not 6.2


You mean 3.1.5 right? Unless you have the only HR10-250 with 3.5 on it <grin>


----------



## tbb1226

vertigo235 said:


> this is indeed good news for hr10-250 owners, we just have to wait and see now


OK, *NOW* we wait and see.


----------



## Rombaldi

jasch said:


> You mean 3.1.5 right? Unless you have the only HR10-250 with 3.5 on it <grin>


DOH! (that's what I get for typing and talking...)


----------



## newsposter

someone else may have already posted but here's their canned reply

Thanks for writing about the DIRECTV DVR (TiVo) 6.2 Software Upgrade. Please be advised that the HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get the software upgrade but the date has yet to be determined.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,


----------



## Chargerdan

Does anyone think it's possible that the HD Tivo will get the 3.5 update like the S1 boxes and not 6.2? If it changes the database structure to make it go faster I could live with it. I would like to have folders like my R10 but speed is my biggest issue with the HR10-250.


----------



## Guindalf

Oh gosh - let's thrash a deceased equine again!

Anything stated here is pure speculation and no-one apart from the nice folk at D* can answer this question - and I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.

All I can say is that I don't think 3.5 would appease many people with HR10s.


----------



## rifleman69

Chargerdan said:


> Does anyone think it's possible that the HD Tivo will get the 3.5 update like the S1 boxes and not 6.2? If it changes the database structure to make it go faster I could live with it. I would like to have folders like my R10 but speed is my biggest issue with the HR10-250.


Yep, if I had to choose folders over database/guide speed...I'd take the speed any day of the week.


----------



## Lee L

Guindalf said:


> Anything stated here is pure speculation and no-one apart from the nice folk at D* can answer this question


And most of them can;t even answer accurately.


----------



## Guindalf

Lee L said:


> And most of them can;t even answer accurately.


No, Lee. I didn't say they WILL answer, just that they CAN answer!


----------



## newsposter

Guindalf said:


> Oh gosh - let's thrash a deceased equine again!
> .


as requested


----------



## GalenMD

I am getting more confidant that my source was correct and that the update will be coming. If they really were not interested in any more updates, then why would the update the old series 1 boxes: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297060

Those units are old and so easily replaceable, I don't see why they would bother unless they had some sense of responsibility to us.

I know that most won't believe it, but 6.2 is coming!


----------



## codespy

I just ordered Sunday Ticked w/free superfan for 2006.

After that, I was asked if any more questions.

Of course, I asked my HR10-250 software update question as usual.

His first response was 'Starts March 7th around 2:00am....................

I cut him off and said that was 2005.

He acknowledged that.

Clicked a couple more keys.

Then said 'Starts April 26th at 1:40am every night, phone line, bla bla bla...'.

I said that's Series 1 Reno.

He said no that's HR10-250.

I said when am I getting it in my region.

He said May 3rd and seemed kind of quick to get off the phone.

If it seems like BS, and smells like BS, it probably is.

Of course, I'm one of their best customers.

I still have some faith in you Earl, despite the BS lines they give out.


----------



## nrc

Chargerdan said:


> Does anyone think it's possible that the HD Tivo will get the 3.5 update like the S1 boxes and not 6.2? If it changes the database structure to make it go faster I could live with it. I would like to have folders like my R10 but speed is my biggest issue with the HR10-250.


I'd say that the odds have gone from near zero to pretty good. DTV didn't send that update out of the goodness of their hearts. Either there's an issue that made the update necessary or the new agreement will allow Tivo to decide when to make updates. In either case the HD Tivo is likely to benefit.


----------



## MichaelK

the series1 update does certainly give me reason to think maybe I've been too pessimistic and 6.x might come to the HR10....


----------



## thumperxr69

Well...I have been way too busy to keep up with the forums like I did over the winter but this is one thread that I have been following with baited (sp) breath. My son (12 rs old) teases me that my TiVo (HD) is slower than his. ARGGGGG.....Folders and faster processing would be a godsend.....

T


----------



## GalenMD

nrc said:


> I'd say that the odds have gone from near zero to pretty good. DTV didn't send that update out of the goodness of their hearts. Either there's an issue that made the update necessary or the new agreement will allow Tivo to decide when to make updates. In either case the HD Tivo is likely to benefit.


What kind of an issue with the old series 1 would warrant an update? Those units are so darn old now, what's the point? Especially considering how cheap it is to get a series 2. Many of us have gotten them for free. Though this makes me even more hopeful that 6.2 is coming, I still don't understand why they would bother touching those old things. Maybe if they crashed some units, they could coax some people by signing up for 2 more years if they accept a new free D* DVR.


----------



## nrc

GalenMD said:


> What kind of an issue with the old series 1 would warrant an update? Those units are so darn old now, what's the point?


There have been instances in the past where minor updates like the recent one for S1 boxes have been pushed out because some recent or upcoming change in the data stream from DTV creates a problem for the unit.

But I'm hoping that the update was actually being driven by TiVo.


----------



## appleye1

rminsk said:


> There is a web page about it on the DirecTV site now http://www.directv.com/see/landing/dvr35_upgrade.html. A really bad quote on that page is


The same page said


> How will I know when I have received my upgrade?
> You'll receive an on-screen message the first time you visit DIRECTV Central after your upgrade is complete. It will also appear in your Messages section.


 I didn't get any message on any of my S1 boxes. Did anybody else? If I weren't a member of this forum (or anal about keeping track of version numbers) I wouldn't have had a clue what had happened to my channels, etc.


----------



## D_Doherty

nrc said:


> There have been instances in the past where minor updates like the recent one for S1 boxes have been pushed out because some recent or upcoming change in the data stream from DTV creates a problem for the unit.
> 
> But I'm hoping that the update was actually being driven by TiVo.


Did the update allow for the 72 degree sat slot?


----------



## rminsk

D_Doherty said:


> Did the update allow for the 72 degree sat slot?


The hardware is not capable of generating the correct information to send to the multiswitch to get the 72.5 degree slot. on the series 1 machines.


----------



## MarcusInMD

codespy said:


> I just ordered Sunday Ticked w/free superfan for 2006.
> 
> After that, I was asked if any more questions.
> 
> Of course, I asked my HR10-250 software update question as usual.
> 
> His first response was 'Starts March 7th around 2:00am....................
> 
> I cut him off and said that was 2005.
> 
> He acknowledged that.
> 
> Clicked a couple more keys.
> 
> Then said 'Starts April 26th at 1:40am every night, phone line, bla bla bla...'.
> 
> I said that's Series 1 Reno.
> 
> He said no that's HR10-250.
> 
> I said when am I getting it in my region.
> 
> *He said May 3rd and seemed kind of quick to get off the phone.*
> 
> If it seems like BS, and smells like BS, it probably is.
> 
> Of course, I'm one of their best customers.
> 
> I still have some faith in you Earl, despite the BS lines they give out.


How is the new software upgrade?


----------



## MichaelK

rminsk said:


> The hardware is not capable of generating the correct information to send to the multiswitch to get the 72.5 degree slot. on the series 1 machines.


Are you sure about that? I thought Dan Collins said back when 72 started getting used that they could but Directv didnt want to bother with the update. But I could be totally off my rocker.


----------



## rminsk

MichaelK said:


> Are you sure about that? I thought Dan Collins said back when 72 started getting used that they could but Directv didnt want to bother with the update. But I could be totally off my rocker.


Yes. I am sure about that. It has been covered numerous times.


----------



## MichaelK

thanks- I must have been having a brain short


----------



## codespy

MarcusInMD said:


> How is the new software upgrade?


I was really, really holding my breath. Nothing has happened. (Surprise)

Maybe I should boycott DTV- that will really send a statement and get them.

Rupert let me down again. I'll call him later to complain. 

Thanks customer-no-service.


----------



## bsgoren

GalenMD said:


> I am getting more confidant that my source was correct and that the update will be coming. If they really were not interested in any more updates, then why would the update the old series 1 boxes: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297060
> 
> Those units are old and so easily replaceable, I don't see why they would bother unless they had some sense of responsibility to us.
> 
> I know that most won't believe it, but 6.2 is coming!


Still waiting...


----------



## richierich

Thank God the 6.2 Release is finally coming!!! Now I can breathe again!!! Boy are there alot of suckers out there who really believe that it will come!!! I said over a year ago or whenever this thread started that we will not get it and apparently I must be PSYCHIC or just SMART as hell about the way corporations do things.

Y'ALL KEEP WAITING for 6.2 and also the new VAPORWARE that D* is offering as their new DVR which they can't seem to roll out. Gives you a lot of confidence that this new box will work as advertised. I think I will just buy me another HR10-250!!!


----------



## pdawg17

If 6.2 never does come they are even more idiotic than I thought because why take the time to make an update for the Series 1 boxes and leave out the HD10-250?


----------



## austinsho

pdawg17 said:


> If 6.2 never does come they are even more idiotic than I thought because why take the time to make an update for the Series 1 boxes and leave out the HD10-250?


Ummm....because there are more of them out there? Because there are issues with the HD10-250 upgrade? Could be either...or neither.


----------



## DVRaholic

Im guessing that if we ever see the 6.2 update for the HR10-250
it will be If and Only If the Cablecard Series 3 Tivo is released BEFORE Directv can get its 
act together and release their NDS version HR20-250.

If the HR20-250 is released first we will probably never see 6.2 on our HR10-250's

I think Directv is just playing a waiting game now.... (I Hope!!)

Come On Series 3 !!!


----------



## pdawg17

austinsho said:


> Ummm....because there are more of them out there? Because there are issues with the HD10-250 upgrade? Could be either...or neither.


Ummm....ok....


----------



## kennet6565

Please explain "zippered and enhanced" HR10-250


----------



## pdawg17

kennet6565 said:


> Please explain "zippered and enhanced" HR10-250


You need to look "Underground"


----------



## k1114

not going to happen


----------



## newsposter

are we there yet?


----------



## ebonovic

> are we there yet?


We are right here my little Smurfs....

And a little birdie has updated me, that another "crow" in another thread stating that update wasn't going to happen.... is wrong. 

Time will tell


----------



## Lee L

OK, Earl, lets be a little more crypitc.  You sound like a politician and political talk is not allowed.

Are you saying there is a rumor resurfacing that it might happen after all?


----------



## ebonovic

I like being cryptic... sometimes (it's how I can skirt around what I can and can't say..  )

Yes.... it may happen after all. I don't have any type of updated time line, other then they are very intrested in getting it updated to be at least functionally equivilent to the 6.x systems. And performance equivilent to all the SD DTivos out there.


----------



## newsposter

ebonovic said:


> sometimes (it's how I can skirt around  )
> .


explain why you are skirting around? Does this have something to do with cold medicine? Does it make pants or shorts more difficult to wear? Does your employer give you any hassles about cross dressing? And are skirts really all that comfortable? I always wondered as I've never worn one.


----------



## willardcpa

newsposter said:


> explain why you are skirting around? Does this have something to do with cold medicine? Does it make pants or shorts more difficult to wear? Does your employer give you any hassles about cross dressing? And are skirts really all that comfortable? I always wondered as I've never worn one.


They must be very sensual to wear. Just look at Earl's avatar. It's got "I'm wearing a skirt." written all over it.


----------



## pkscout

ebonovic said:


> I like being cryptic... sometimes (it's how I can skirt around what I can and can't say..  )
> 
> Yes.... it may happen after all. I don't have any type of updated time line, other then they are very intrested in getting it updated to be at least functionally equivilent to the 6.x systems. And performance equivilent to all the SD DTivos out there.


Well, DirecTV has about 3 - 4 weeks to do this before I dump my dish, go back to cable, get one of the TWC DVRs, and wait for the Series 3. My HDTiVo has become so slow and unstable that I rejoice anytime I actually get a show recorded (OK, it's not that bad, but it is getting close).


----------



## vdubuclet

ebonovic said:


> I like being cryptic... sometimes (it's how I can skirt around what I can and can't say..  )
> 
> Yes.... it may happen after all.
> .


Alright so where are you getting this? We have all been down this road before.


----------



## ebonovic

willardcpa said:


> They must be very sensual to wear. Just look at Earl's avatar. It's got "I'm wearing a skirt." written all over it.


I don't have the legs to wear a skirt at work.
After hours... different story.

As for where I am getting this information from.... Well..... It's kinda like a reporter. I can't give up the source, without losing the source....

And I definently don't want to lose the source.

I have absolutely no reason NOT to believe the person that I have been talking to. Those of you that follow me now over at www.dbstalk.com; it is the same source. (And it is not a particular online vendor of value electronics either).

I know they want to do it soon... but they are making sure that the version they push out is as good as it can be.


----------



## codespy

Thanks Earl for keeping us posted. You and your 'birdie' are the only ones keeping me from cancelling my HD package, which in turn, would cancel my Sunday Ticket package, which = less money for DTV per year from me.


----------



## joetoronto

codespy said:


> Thanks Earl for keeping us posted. You and your 'birdie' are the only ones keeping me from cancelling my HD package, which in turn, would cancel my Sunday Ticket package, which = less money for DTV per year from me.


and no football for you. well...not much anyway.


----------



## joetoronto

ebonovic said:


> I don't have the legs to wear a skirt at work.
> After hours... different story.
> 
> As for where I am getting this information from.... Well..... It's kinda like a reporter. I can't give up the source, without losing the source....
> 
> And I definently don't want to lose the source.
> 
> I have absolutely no reason NOT to believe the person that I have been talking to. Those of you that follow me now over at www.dbstalk.com; it is the same source. (And it is not a particular online vendor of value electronics either).
> 
> I know they want to do it soon... but they are making sure that the version they push out is as good as it can be.


could it be the one, the only, dan collins?

where's the drum roll?


----------



## Paperboy2003

I just don't understand why D* would bother pushing out an update if the HR20 was around the corner. Of course the HR20 will probably get pushed out and be delayed as much as the 6.2 has been.....oh whatever...


----------



## ebonovic

joetoronto said:


> could it be the one, the only, dan collins?
> 
> where's the drum roll?


Actually.... no...


----------



## ebonovic

Paperboy2003 said:


> I just don't understand why D* would bother pushing out an update if the HR20 was around the corner. Of course the HR20 will probably get pushed out and be delayed as much as the 6.2 has been.....oh whatever...


Under the same arena on why they just pushed an update to the Series 1 DTivos

The HR10-250 has a very large user bases, and even with the HR20 around the corner the HR10-250 isn't going anywhere soon.


----------



## newsposter

ebonovic said:


> Under the same arena on why they just pushed an update to the Series 1 DTivos
> .


this is logical. Of course literally the week I disconnect the T60, they update it. Shall I disconnect the HDtivo so we get that upgrade this week?

However, being dtv, maybe logic doesn't apply and they only care about the cheap standard tivos and not the hdtivos 

Nah, they do care about us and realize it's pretty stupid to update 3+ year old stuff and then not update the newer.


----------



## kkluba

Paperboy2003 said:


> I just don't understand why D* would bother pushing out an update if the HR20 was around the corner. Of course the HR20 will probably get pushed out and be delayed as much as the 6.2 has been.....oh whatever...


Around the corner would be 6 months at a minimum and 12 months more likely for the HR20. And when it comes how solid will it be?

The mpeg2 to mpeg4 conversion will take 2 years or more. Given those timelines it does make sense to do the 6.2 update and not jeopardize losing a contingent of their most profiatble customers.


----------



## jhimmel

newsposter said:


> Of course literally the week I disconnect the T60, they update it. Shall I disconnect the HDtivo so we get that upgrade this week?


Yes, if you don't mind.

We'll let you know when we have the update and it is okay for you to plug back in.

Thanks,

Jim H.


----------



## MisterEd

You really think it has a "very large userbase" ?? I'd love to know what % of rx's are 250's. I'd guess it's well under 1% of total rx's which would pretty much be what our stats are.



ebonovic said:


> The HR10-250 has a very large user bases, and even with the HR20 around the corner the HR10-250 isn't going anywhere soon.


----------



## ebonovic

Percentage of all DirecTV customer?
Even 1% would be 150,000 

Basically it may be small from a "percentage" point of view, but it is still a large number.


----------



## AbMagFab

150K+ of their highest-end, lowest churn customers as well. We are generally the ones they don't want to lose, as we're their highest profit margins.

Too bad probably 20%+ of us will be leaving the moment the S3 is available.


----------



## tnedator

AbMagFab said:


> 150K+ of their highest-end, lowest churn customers as well. We are generally the ones they don't want to lose, as we're their highest profit margins.
> 
> Too bad probably 20%+ of us will be leaving the moment the S3 is available.


S3??


----------



## ebonovic

S3 

TiVo Series 3


----------



## Lee L

AbMagFab said:


> 150K+ of their highest-end, lowest churn customers as well. We are generally the ones they don't want to lose, as we're their highest profit margins.
> 
> Too bad probably 20%+ of us will be leaving the moment the S3 is available.


Of course, to play Devil's advocate, that is all the more reason to not upgrade the thing unless they are nearly 100% sure there will be no issues. The last thing they want is for some of their best customers to need to return units due to a botched upgrade.

I'm hoping they are close and we will get it, but I know some of the past rumors as to why we did not get the update is because it was way too buggy.


----------



## kkluba

Way too buggy? How many years has 6.2 been around? How long has it run on dual tuner S2's? And when is Tivo releasing the S3? 

I just can't believe 6.2 for the HDtivo isn't ready for release.


----------



## bidger

kkluba said:


> Way too buggy? How many years has 6.2 been around? How long has it run on dual tuner S2's?


According to this thread, a little over a year. It's not mentioned that people actually received the update until page 3. Standalones would have a different time line.


----------



## Lee L

kkluba said:


> Way too buggy? How many years has 6.2 been around? How long has it run on dual tuner S2's? And when is Tivo releasing the S3?
> 
> I just can't believe 6.2 for the HDtivo isn't ready for release.


Well, some version of it was on an HR10-250 at CES 2005. It ran but was buggy and being 'worked on" according to rumors from reps at the booth. Since then, it has never been released and several rumors said it was due to showstopper bugs that could just not be fixed. While the SD TiVos are very similar, there is quite a bit of difference in the 2 so that it is not trivial to just bring the software over.

Now, I also think there may be some ulterior motives regarding MRV that has kept it under wraps and I would not be surprised to see that part of the code out of the HR10-250 if it ever does get upgraded, both from a bug perspective and to keep content more tightly controlled.


----------



## newsposter

jhimmel said:


> Yes, if you don't mind.
> 
> We'll let you know when we have the update and it is okay for you to plug back in.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim H.


note to 6.2 software developers: I dont need the 6.2 update because I just unplugged the tivos and am trying to catch up on the almost 750 gigs of stuff i have saved. So please dont issue the update...we dont need it, ok?


----------



## MichaelK

hope that works!


----------



## jhimmel

That oughta do it.

Jim H.


----------



## GalenMD

Guys. 6.2 (or something like it) is coming. Only a new and major unexpected failure will make this not happen.

My connection is as solid as they will ever come. I didn't want to release my source by giving out too much info, but now I really don't care that much. I have nothing to lose. This guy is a chief supervisor in the software engineering department. This is one of his projects.

I will not release his actual name for fear of p***ing him off. Though I'm actually not sure if he cares at all, and I don't even care if he or my other source gets upset at me. I just don't want to take the chance that they'll delay it as a revenge tactic!

Anyway, they said 1-2 months before it hits our boxes and that was just less than one month ago. My guess is that we will have it by the end of June.


----------



## bsgoren

GalenMD said:


> Guys. 6.2 (or something like it) is coming. Only a new and major unexpected failure will make this not happen.
> 
> My connection is as solid as they will ever come. I didn't want to release my source by giving out too much info, but now I really don't care that much. I have nothing to lose. This guy is a chief supervisor in the software engineering department. This is one of his projects.
> 
> I will not release his actual name for fear of p***ing him off. Though I'm actually not sure if he cares at all, and I don't even care if he or my other source gets upset at me. I just don't want to take the chance that they'll delay it as a revenge tactic!
> 
> Anyway, they said 1-2 months before it hits our boxes and that was just less than one month ago. My guess is that we will have it by the end of June.


I hope you're right. I'm not holding my breath, but I think it could happen only b/c the new D*TV HD DVR has offically been delayed until '07, and they've obviously rolled out the update to other (SD) boxes. I am, however, still a bit skeptical, especially since D*TV so proudly to displayed that supposed 6.2 update on their HR10-250 at the CES show way back in Jan., 2005, but then came the split with TIVO and the announcements of D*TV's own HD DVR...yada yada yada.

But, now, things have changed a bit, and delays on their new HD DVR have set them back, so why not try to retain most of us current HD D*TIVO owners/D*TV subscribers with this update. I know many friends and family that used to be D*TV customers and switched to DISH; they all have the new DISH HD DVR and like it and DISH's HD programming.

D*TV should do the right thing and give us the 6.2 update now, even if it's for only just months before they push us to switch to their new MPEG-4 HD DVR service.

If only pigs could fly...


----------



## MarcusInMD

This thread is like a bad 1980's B grade horror flick. The monster that keeps getting killed and coming back to life...

For the love of God....


----------



## GalenMD

Besides, they have said, multiple times, in writing, that the HR10-250 will be getting the update. On top of that, they're still selling the units. At this point, I think it would be absurd if we don't get the update.


----------



## ebonovic

GalenMD said:


> Anyway, they said 1-2 months before it hits our boxes and that was just less than one month ago. My guess is that we will have it by the end of June.


That would concur with what my source led me to believe as well.... 
Plus I had a second person contact me with similar information, that I have no reason not to believe....

It is is looking promising.


----------



## ebonovic

bsgoren said:


> I hope you're right. I'm not holding my breath, but I think it could happen only b/c the new D*TV HD DVR has offically been delayed until '07,
> 
> .....
> 
> But, now, things have changed a bit, and delays on their new HD DVR have set them back, so why not try to retain most of us current HD D*TIVO owners/D*TV subscribers with this update.
> 
> .....


Where did they "officially" announce the HR20 was delayed to '07 ?
Did I miss a press-release or something?
or am I miss interpreting what you wrote...

All indications that I have seen and heard is that it could be as early as Q3


----------



## Matt L

I guess I don't get it. Most of you are salivating about getting 6.2, but I guess I'm the odd man out. I really don't care if I get it, and odds are will stop it from downloading. I've had my unit for years, hacked it and it works fine (hope I didn't jinx it...). I can live without folders, the speed issue is minor, the unit is rock solid so why mess with success?

I'll take a solid performer over a flaky speedy one any day. (Who wants to give me odds on there NOT being any bugs.  )


----------



## pdawg17

Matt L said:


> I guess I don't get it. Most of you are salivating about getting 6.2, but I guess I'm the odd man out. I really don't care if I get it, and odds are will stop it from downloading. I've had my unit for years, hacked it and it works fine (hope I didn't jinx it...). I can live without folders, the speed issue is minor, the unit is rock solid so why mess with success?
> 
> I'll take a solid performer over a flaky speedy one any day. (Who wants to give me odds on there NOT being any bugs.  )


With a hacked box, I get around the speed problems (season passes etc) by doing it from my PC...most people with HD10-250s however, don't have theirs hacked...for those people, speeding things up would be HUGE...I agree though that there will probably be some new issues with the 6.2 update...


----------



## newsposter

for a non hacked box, (disregarding bugs), is there any reason i wouldnt want the upgrade? I've been told i can turn off folders if it turns out i dont like them for some reason, but just wondering if there is anything else i may not like? or is it all a bowl of cherries?


----------



## Anubys

newsposter said:


> for a non hacked box, (disregarding bugs), is there any reason i wouldnt want the upgrade? I've been told i can turn off folders if it turns out i dont like them for some reason, but just wondering if there is anything else i may not like? or is it all a bowl of cherries?


I wouldn't call it a bowl of cherries...all we get is folders and improved speed...I'd say that's 5 cherries at most 

but I know my wife would kill for those 2 things...she had folders before I "forced" her to get HDTV and she really misses that feature...


----------



## Mikey_C

MarcusInMD said:


> This thread is like a bad 1980's B grade horror flick. The monster that keeps getting killed and coming back to life...
> 
> For the love of God....


Agreed. All I have to say is
GET A LIFE!


----------



## Wirelezz

*It's Like...*​


----------



## ebonovic

Why is it a Dead Horse?

Recent "developments" have brought it back as a viable possibility that it may occur.

At least it is all in one thread.


----------



## Lee L

Well, based on the thread title, it is safe to assume that it is all speculation. If it does actually happen, iti s also safe to say that ther ewill be several threads here saying it is coming and many more than that saying it is here when peopel actualyl start to get it. Therefore, it is safe to say that if you do not want to read idle speculation and guessing that this thread can be ignored. Also, since about 10 people have complained that we are beating a dead horse here, it is beating a dead horse to say that too. 

Now, I will be the first to admit that I had my doubts we would ever see it and posted as much here in this thread, it does seem much more likely now, though we might also be deluding ourselves.


----------



## newsposter

Anubys said:


> I wouldn't call it a bowl of cherries...all we get is folders and improved speed...I'd say that's 5 cherries at most
> 
> but I know my wife would kill for those 2 things...she had folders before I "forced" her to get HDTV and she really misses that feature...


never had folders so will either be a great bonus or i'll turn them off

speed...would....love ....speed! As long as they keep the same reliability or better of course. navigating while recording 2 Hd things can be painful.


----------



## Wirelezz

A little off topic, I know... 

The one year anniversary of this thread was yesterday (5/17/06). 

Question for you Tivo Community "old timers:" 

Has there ever been a thead on the Tivo forums as long lived as this one @ 1 year with 789 posts (as of this post)? 

Does this thread hold the record for longevity? 

Just curious...


----------



## joetoronto

Lee L said:


> Well, based on the thread title, it is safe to assume that it is all speculation. If it does actually happen, iti s also safe to say that ther ewill be several threads here saying it is coming and many more than that saying it is here when peopel actualyl start to get it. Therefore, it is safe to say that *if you do not want to read idle speculation and guessing that this thread can be ignored. Also, since about 10 people have complained that we are beating a dead horse here, it is beating a dead horse to say that too*.
> 
> Now, I will be the first to admit that I had my doubts we would ever see it and posted as much here in this thread, it does seem much more likely now, though we might also be deluding ourselves.


exactly. you guy's ***** and moan about this thread but where are you?

in this thread. 

anyway, folders and speed sound cool, as long as there's no f_ckups in the mix.


----------



## Anubys

Wirelezz said:


> A little off topic, I know...
> 
> The one year anniversary of this thread was yesterday (5/17/06).
> 
> Question for you Tivo Community "old timers:"
> 
> Has there ever been a thead on the Tivo forums as long lived as this one @ 1 year with 789 posts (as of this post)?
> 
> Does this thread hold the record for longevity?
> 
> Just curious...


dear God, yes...there are some pretty infamous threads...one of them ran so big that it had to be closed and a new one started in its place (it got a little out of hand with trolls)...the thread of people who pre-ordered the HR10-250 (aka HD Tivo) was -- and probably still is -- one of the funniest threads I've seen around here...easily over 10,000 posts, IIRC...


----------



## cheer

I didn't realize how much I would miss folders until I lost them. The NPL on my HR10-250 is a mess. At least the S0RT code works so I can find things, but...yikes. 

And the speed issue is a real one. Not so bad that I'd stop using the box or change providers or anything, but it can be an annoyance.

To the poster who asked if 6.2 was a bowl of cherries...absolutely, in the sense that there were no downsides to it on unhacked boxes (and on hacked boxes the only downside was the loss of sendkey).

I would presume (though I could be wrong) that this won't exactly be 6.2, but some kind of 6.x release specifically for this piece of hardware (just as the R10 uses 6.1). Who knows how hackable it will be in terms of MRV, etc -- I very much doubt the standard MRV code knows how to handle videos that are only playable on certain boxes. But we shall see.

--chris


----------



## newsposter

well cheer brought me a whole bowl of cherries..thanks! Let's get that update NOW! Of course since i deactivated all my boxes  it's moot.........


----------



## slocko

I was part of that thread  My HD-Tivo was number 23 in the country.

I remember original thread was closed, then a new one reopened, that one was threated to be closed, Value Electronics was praised and condemened, lawsuits threatened, V.E.'s bank wanted to stop processing credit card orders due to complaints from buyers, Doug created purchase list to give people an idea when they might receiver theirs, it was a ton of fun.



Anubys said:


> dear God, yes...there are some pretty infamous threads...one of
> 
> them ran so big that it had to be closed and a new one started in its place (it got a little out of hand with trolls)...the thread of people who pre-ordered the HR10-250 (aka HD Tivo) was -- and probably still is -- one of the funniest threads I've seen around here...easily over 10,000 posts, IIRC...


----------



## JimSpence

Side note: I gave up on getting any kind of update on my Series 1 DirecTV DVRs (T60 and DSR6000) a long time ago. Would really have liked folders at the very least. Well, they just pumped down version 3.5 for S1's. Alas, no folders. Don't get me wrong, the faster guide is great and whatever else they did under the cover. Some with hacked units aren't too happy.
Ther's a big thread on the SD TiVo fourm about this.

Anyway that update was on very old units, so I suspect that an update for the HR10-250 will be along at some point.


----------



## rminsk

GalenMD said:


> Guys. 6.2 (or something like it) is coming. Only a new and major unexpected failure will make this not happen.
> 
> My connection is as solid as they will ever come. I didn't want to release my source by giving out too much info, but now I really don't care that much. I have nothing to lose. This guy is a chief supervisor in the software engineering department. This is one of his projects.
> 
> I will not release his actual name for fear of p***ing him off. Though I'm actually not sure if he cares at all, and I don't even care if he or my other source gets upset at me. I just don't want to take the chance that they'll delay it as a revenge tactic!
> 
> Anyway, they said 1-2 months before it hits our boxes and that was just less than one month ago. My guess is that we will have it by the end of June.


So are you going to post something like this every month? "I know this big woopdee-doo mucky muck and they say...." If you post something like this every month then when (if) it does come out you can say I told you so...


----------



## bbodin

Mikey_C said:


> Agreed. All I have to say is
> GET A LIFE!


said the man who's posting in a thread he has no interest in


----------



## JaserLet

Series 1 just got their update to 3.5, so I'm certain that the HR10-250 will get 6.2.

If my math is correct, we should get 6.2 sometime around September 2009.


----------



## codespy

Geez, if that's the case, how long will this thread be after another 3 1/2 years?  


No need to respond Richierich- we know where you stand!


----------



## GalenMD

rminsk said:


> So are you going to post something like this every month? "I know this big woopdee-doo mucky muck and they say...." If you post something like this every month then when (if) it does come out you can say I told you so...


Yep. That's exactly why I do this. For my own personal self-gratification.


----------



## DVRaholic

I Cant believe its been a Year since I started this thread... 

Too Bad I will NEVER see my HR10-250 get the 6.2 Update. 
Im now using it as a OTA receiver along with My Cablevision SA-8300HD DVR 
(cant even compare to Tivo)

I couldnt wait, with No 6.2 but most of all HD-Lite I went to cable a few months ago. I have not regretted it at all!!!

Once the Series 3 is released I will NEVER go back to D*, NEVER!


----------



## sluciani

DVRaholic said:


> Im now using it as a OTA receiver along with My Cablevision SA-8300HD DVR
> (cant even compare to Tivo)


Assume you dropped your D* service completely? If so, what Tivo functionality remains on the HR10-250 when used as a standalone, if any? Can you still schedule manual recordings?

Thanks.

/steve


----------



## stevel

No. You can use it as an OTA tuner and use the "trick play" during live TV, but that's it.


----------



## joetoronto

stevel said:


> No. You can use it as an OTA tuner and use the "trick play" during live TV, but that's it.


ok, i'll bite, "trick play"?


----------



## jasch

You've never read your manual? That what TiVo calls pausing, rewinding, etc recordings. LOL


----------



## joetoronto

jasch said:


> You've never read your manual? That what TiVo calls pausing, rewinding, etc recordings. LOL


i don't read manuals, jasch. i'm a plug and play kind of guy.


----------



## Anubys

jasch said:


> You've never read your manual? That what TiVo calls pausing, rewinding, etc recordings. LOL


real men don't read manuals!


----------



## joetoronto

Anubys said:


> real men don't read manuals!


or ask for directions. :up:


----------



## Wirelezz

DVRaholic said:


> I Cant believe its been a Year since I started this thread...
> 
> Too Bad I will NEVER see my HR10-250 get the 6.2 Update.


WOW, it's the man himself! DVRaholic, look what you started here... long live this thread!! :up:


----------



## rsblaski

Anubys said:


> real men don't read manuals!


But they DRIVE manual (transmissions).


----------



## newsposter

Anubys said:


> real men don't read manuals!


i keep the hdtivo manual in pdf on my work laptop so i can answer TCF questions for the newbies..what does that make me?


----------



## Wirelezz

newsposter said:


> i keep the hdtivo manual in pdf on my work laptop so i can answer TCF questions for the newbies..what does that make me?


Well let's see... I guess that would make you one who was heavily engaged in 'manual labor!!'


----------



## MichaelK

GalenMD said:


> Besides, they have said, multiple times, in writing, that the HR10-250 will be getting the update. On top of that, they're still selling the units. At this point, I think it would be absurd if we don't get the update.


Not to be a thorn in your side, but are you saying directv has never done anything absurd?.

How bout lunching mpeg4 content without an mpeg4 dvr ffor the first year or so? How bout not providing HD RSNs to LILs? How about not even providing the fox own HD channels? How about launching the 2 spaceway birds and planning to not even fill up one with programming for at least a year? How about leasing the HR10 for a larger down payment than buying it? How about doubling the cost of the HR10?

There are many decisions that they make that seem absurd on the face. Some may very well be stupid. Others their reasons might not be apparent.

They may very well release 6.x for the Tivos but dont put your hat on it being absurd if they didnt.


----------



## Anubys

Wirelezz said:


> Well let's see... I guess that would make you one who was heavily engaged in 'manual labor!!'


I was going to answer with something funny...but this answer is funnier :up: :up: :up:


----------



## DVRaholic

Wirelezz said:


> WOW, it's the man himself! DVRaholic, look what you started here... long live this thread!! :up:


Long live... 
UNTIL 6.2 is finally released, then You can start the next thread...
"6.2 crashed my Hr10-250"


----------



## robgettier

First let me apologize. I am new to HD and instead of reading this very long thread, I have a simple question.

Is the 6.2 upgrade available for HR10-250?
If not, is it ever expected?

Thank you,

Rob


----------



## duanej

> Is the 6.2 upgrade available for HR10-250?

No.

>If not, is it ever expected?

Maybe, maybe not. We really don't know. Of course, that's what this thread is all about.


----------



## GalenMD

robgettier said:


> First let me apologize. I am new to HD and instead of reading this very long thread, I have a simple question.
> 
> Is the 6.2 upgrade available for HR10-250?
> If not, is it ever expected?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Rob


Where is that smilie that shows it hitting his head against a brick wall?

OK, I guess this thread is a bit long. 6.2 is NOT available. There are lots of rumours to suggest that it will be released very soon. The only official statement from D* is that it is not available, but will be sometime in the future. That has been the statement for the past year or longer.


----------



## jcricket

Stuff the 6.2 and MPG4 talk. I want to know when D* is upgrading the HR10 to receive MPG6 recordings


----------



## Mikey_C

jcricket said:


> Stuff the 6.2 and MPG4 talk. I want to know when D* is upgrading the HR10 to receive MPG6 recordings


Nahh...what we really want is full uncompressed 1080x1920 19MB/s on every channel (otherwise known as HDTV...what a concept!  )


----------



## BillyT2002

This is the one time I find myself hoping that Earl (the eternal optimist) is right.


----------



## rminsk

Mikey_C said:


> Nahh...what we really want is full uncompressed 1080x1920 19MB/s on every channel (otherwise known as HDTV...what a concept!  )


An uncompressed 1920*1080 4:2:2 signal is ~120 megabytes/second. Broadcast high definition is always compressed.


----------



## newsposter

GalenMD said:


> Where is that smilie that shows it hitting his head against a brick wall?
> 
> .


i know david said he didn't wanna have to choose which to add and not add...but i really wish he did add a few dozen  sat guys has a nice smattering of them


----------



## IndyTom

Sorry for the belated Hallmark card:

HAPPY ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY TO THE 'STILL WAITING FOR THE 6.2 UPGRADE' PEOPLE!


::heading over to the 'OJ is still looking for the real killer' thread to congratulate them as well::


----------



## TyroneShoes

Who's waiting? I'm watching TV. Not having 6.2 doesn't affect that at all. Sure, I'd like it, but I don't want it before it's ready. But I'm not whining about not having it, either. Patience.


----------



## ebonovic

BillyT2002 said:


> This is the one time I find myself hoping that Earl (the eternal optimist) is right.


I am not an "eternal optimist".... just definently more optimistic then most.


----------



## JaserLet

I hope we get 6.2 soon, so we can quit *****ing about the software version and start *****ing about the compression artifacts.


----------



## Adam1115

6.2 will NEVER EVER be on the HR10

The R10 is 6.1, the rest are 6.2. This one would be 6.3? Something else, not 6.2.


----------



## ebonovic

So how about 6.x

Obviously we are using "6.2" to refer to the 6.x series of software features and performance.


----------



## JimSpence

It could be 7.x for all we know. 

They updated the older S1 DVRs with 3.5 with no warning so why couldn't they do the same on the HR10? 

Shall we now start a poll for when?


----------



## DVRaholic

JimSpence said:


> It could be 7.x for all we know.
> 
> They updated the older S1 DVRs with 3.5 with no warning so why couldn't they do the same on the HR10?
> 
> Shall we now start a poll for when?


My Best guess would be when Tivo announces the release of the Series 3 cable HD-Tivo. 
We will probably see the 6.X update within days after that.


----------



## Budget_HT

DVRaholic said:


> My Best guess would be when Tivo announces the release of the Series 3 cable HD-Tivo.
> We will probably see the 6.X update within days after that.


Why do you think these two actions are related?


----------



## EricG

newsposter said:


> i keep the hdtivo manual in pdf on my work laptop so i can answer TCF questions for the newbies..what does that make me?


I've got the manual on my USB Thumb drive. You never know when you may need it !!


----------



## Mark Lopez

Budget_HT said:


> Why do you think these two actions are related?


Perhaps under the assumption that everyone will jump ship from satellite when the Series 3 HD comes out.


----------



## newsposter

if they turn off my HDtivo i'll be sure to be leaving. I"ll leave that rumor to other threads though


----------



## slocko

I happen to know this guy who knows this guy who is related to a cousin who is dating this other guy that works at dunkin donuts where the engineers grab their breakfast sandwhiches. he overheard them saying that 6.2 will be released when the moderator closes this thread


----------



## IndyTom

slocko said:


> I happen to know this guy who knows this guy who is related to a cousin who is dating this other guy that works at dunkin donuts where the engineers grab their breakfast sandwhiches. he overheard them saying that 6.2 will be released when the moderator closes this thread


::using my Ben Stein voice::

Frye? Frye? Frye? Frye?


----------



## MarcusInMD

slocko said:


> I happen to know this guy who knows this guy who is related to a cousin who is dating this other guy that works at dunkin donuts where the engineers grab their breakfast sandwhiches. he overheard them saying that 6.2 will be released when the moderator closes this thread


Ive been to that same shop and heard the same thing.


----------



## MNTivoGuy

slocko said:


> I happen to know this guy....... that works at dunkin donuts


Mmmmmm. Donuts.


----------



## Guindalf

MNTivoGuy said:


> Mmmmmm. Donuts.


Mmmmmmm, breakfast sandwiches!


----------



## JStanton_boston

Mikey_C said:


> Agreed. All I have to say is
> GET A LIFE!


Pot. Kettle. Black.


----------



## falstaffpac

IndyTom said:


> Sorry for the belated Hallmark card:
> 
> HAPPY ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY TO THE 'STILL WAITING FOR THE 6.2 UPGRADE' PEOPLE!
> 
> ::heading over to the 'OJ is still looking for the real killer' thread to congratulate them as well::


Yeah, I hear the 'We almost found Jimmy Hoffa' thread is a good read.


----------



## mulscully

breath.....holding...........................aaaaah

damn, couldn't do it....


----------



## dave3

any day now, any day.


----------



## slocko

anyone know what the vegas lines are on the update?


----------



## Lee L

6.2 to one?


----------



## sjberra

falstaffpac said:


> Yeah, I hear the 'We almost found Jimmy Hoffa' thread is a good read.


funny you should post this one

Jimmy Hoffa Search


----------



## PJO1966

sjberra said:


> funny you should post this one
> 
> Jimmy Hoffa Search


Why aren't they looking under Giants Stadium?


----------



## Spin

PJO1966 said:


> Why aren't they looking under Giants Stadium?


They already did years ago. But that was for Hoffa, they should search for the 6.2 update there.


----------



## newsposter

I say look under mile post 99 of the PA turnpike. Until just recently, there was a hoffa sticker on the mile marker in the middle of the highway. When i was rounding that corner, couldn't help but notice it. Perhaps he's there?


----------



## mattdb

I have been emailing back and forth about 6.2 on the HR10-250, finally I asked for a manager to call me and I just got off the phone with one. 

She said they had slated it for march of this year but had some issues, didn't say what, but that they were working on it. She said the new MPEG4 HDVR might come out before 6.2 for the HR10-250, but that 6.2 should come some time. She wouldn't give me a time frame as she wasn't sure when. 

I informed her that I was in no way interested in the new MPEG4 HDVR, that if they dropped the TiVo and didn't do 6.2 I was out here. She said that they were working on it......

So, we are still in limbo. 

I sure do want HMO, MRV and my HDTiVo's.

Matt


----------



## newsposter

I guess it's more of a poll question...but while others and myself have gotten both verbal and written confirmation of update 'some day', i wonder why they wont go out on a limb and say 'in the next year' or something like that? Not that they can't go back on their word but i bet it would placate a few people to hear it on the investor page or something.

wouldn't that make 'us' happy?


----------



## Anubys

newsposter said:


> wouldn't that make 'us' happy?


not really...I'm in the camp of "I'll get it when I get it"...it's just icing on the cake...I'd like the icing, but the cake is just fine...


----------



## phox_mulder

Anubys said:


> not really...I'm in the camp of "I'll get it when I get it"...it's just icing on the cake...I'd like the icing, but the cake is just fine...


I prefer pie.

Not a cake fan, not an icing fan.

It'd be nice to have, but not holding my breath.

It'll be interesting to see this discussion shift from "when are we getting 6.2"
to "6.2 broke my tivo, reboots all the time, stuck on powering up",
remeniscent of 7.2 on the standalones.

phox


----------



## mattdb

I really want to be able to have folders, a faster guide and really really would like to be able to watch what's on one TiVO on one of my other's, not to mention to be able to use the SDK to develop some Home Automation interface.


----------



## mattdb

I really want to be able to have folders, a faster guide and really really would like to be able to watch what's on one TiVO on one of my other's, not to mention to be able to use the SDK to develop some Home Automation interface.

Those of us with the power can always "down grade" and not allow upgrades if there are issues.

Matt


----------



## ebonovic

mattdb said:


> I really want to be able to have folders, a faster guide and really really would like to be able to watch what's on one TiVO on one of my other's, not to mention to be able to use the SDK to develop some Home Automation interface.


I would not expecting anything more then what we see with 6.2 on the SD units.
(Folder and faster performance)

Other then that..... you "may" be able to hack to get those features once 6.x is there, but 99.99999% it won't be there from DirecTV.


----------



## tall1

ebonovic said:


> I would not expecting anything more then what we see with 6.2 on the SD units.
> (Folder and faster performance)
> 
> Other then that..... you "may" be able to hack to get those features once 6.x is there, but 99.99999% it won't be there from DirecTV.


I hope MRV is "there" like it is "there" on SD units. Hopefully D* doesn't remove MRV completely before launching 6.2. It would be awesome to be able to "unleash" MRV.


----------



## drew2k

Anubys said:


> not really...I'm in the camp of "I'll get it when I get it"...it's just icing on the cake...I'd like the icing, but the cake is just fine...


Mmmm. Icing. I want the big sugary flower on top with the green leaves!

[cake=6.2] [icing=speed] [flower and leaves=folders]


----------



## slocko

6.2 release is going to be the perfect release. it will have zero bugs. that is why they are taking so long 



phox_mulder said:


> I prefer pie.
> 
> Not a cake fan, not an icing fan.
> 
> It'd be nice to have, but not holding my breath.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see this discussion shift from "when are we getting 6.2"
> to "6.2 broke my tivo, reboots all the time, stuck on powering up",
> remeniscent of 7.2 on the standalones.
> 
> phox


----------



## joetoronto

i'll take some beaver pie over the update any day, twice on sundays.


----------



## slocko

yummmmmm, beaver pie, yummmmmmm. with my best homer impersonation


----------



## cheer

tall1 said:


> I hope MRV is "there" like it is "there" on SD units. Hopefully D* doesn't remove MRV completely before launching 6.2. It would be awesome to be able to "unleash" MRV.


The rumor, of course, is that one component of the delay is that they are trying to remove the MRV code entirely. But there's no real evidence that that is the case.

MRV with the HR10-250 would be tricky. In particular, one wonders how the code would handle things if you tried to MRV an HD-resolution show to an SD Tivo.

I cannot confirm, due to forum rules, that I have ever tried to manually insert HD shows on an SD DTivo. I specifically cannot confirm that 480i and 480p shows from the HR10-250 insert just fine on an SD DTivo, nor can I specifically confirm that 720p and 1080i shows insert and play audio but no video.


----------



## pendragn

cheer said:


> MRV with the HR10-250 would be tricky. In particular, one wonders how the code would handle things if you tried to MRV an HD-resolution show to an SD Tivo.


I think that code is already present. If you have a unit with a DVD burner and try to MRV stuff around you get an error about it not being the correct format. I'm not sure how the code determines that, but I'm pretty sure there's a mechanism already in place for it.

tk


----------



## newsposter

observation: last time a rebate period was up, we got leasing (3/1)...next rebate period ends 7/1.....so maybe we will get 6.2 or the new dvr...


----------



## cheer

pendragn said:


> I think that code is already present. If you have a unit with a DVD burner and try to MRV stuff around you get an error about it not being the correct format. I'm not sure how the code determines that, but I'm pretty sure there's a mechanism already in place for it.


Could well be. It's all speculation, of course.  Meanwhile, there still is some underground-type activity trying to hack 6.2 onto the HR10-250.

Heck, if someone wanted to donate an HR10-250 to the cause, I'd happily put all sorts of hours into the effort. Can't risk the Spousal Wrath I might encounter if I took the main one offline...


----------



## tall1

cheer said:


> The rumor, of course, is that one component of the delay is that they are trying to remove the MRV code entirely. But there's no real evidence that that is the case.


Hopefully it is just that, a rumor. Not sure why they would bother investing so many R&D dollars to remove the MRV code just to thwart a few geeky hackers....(like me).


----------



## MarcusInMD

The speculation about them removing code is just that specualtion. I am going on the premise that they just don't give a darn about the HD-Tivo customers and simply are not going to release it to us. The track record already in place is obvious with DirecTV and I suspect that it will continue into the future.

Every rumor in this thread has turned out to be just that, a rumor. Here we are June 1st, 2006. So many "release" dates have come and gone for the HD-Tivo. Over a month ago we started hearing it will be here in a month or so from so-called reputable insiders. I am glad I have not fallen for the misinformation leaked out from DirecTV.

Comcast can't get here soon enough....<sigh>


----------



## Aquatic

People... it's been this long, they've strung it out long enough and with the MPeg4 stuff, there's no way that 1) they've been working diligently on it and 2) are willing to support it. 

When your DMA comes up for HD LiL or perhaps this fall (for NFLST folks) you'll be "given" the opportunity to upgrade--trade in your current set up for a D* HD-DVR (commonly referred to at the HR20) or lease one. It's pretty simple strong arm tactics mind you--if you want the new tech, you pay the price--trade in or pony up at LEAST your current HR10, perhaps more for a "free" lease upgrade. 

If D* happens to come up with some different model, I highly doubt it'll be advantageous to the people here--it's all about the stock price and revenues. 

Yep, Doom and Gloom and I'm usually optimistic, but in this case, the writing is on the way methinks.


----------



## mattdb

I am a pessimist generally, but from the phone call I had I get the impression that they are going to eventually upgrade our units. I firmly told them that if they dropped my TiVo service, I would cancel my directv account. That seemed to have got some attention, at least I hope. 

Matt


----------



## tbh999

videojanitor said:


> ..."Please Stand By" graphic for up to five minutes! I only have about 15 SPs, so I'm not sure why it should take soooooo long.


I have about 45 season passes (SPs), it takes over an *hour* of "Please Stand By" to make a change.

The other night we were watching a movie, my wife got up to do something, so I made an adjustment to one of our SPs while the movie was paused...long story short, we ended up going to bed and not finishing the movie that night.

Also, if the HDirecTivo has recently rebooted, it _only_ takes 5-10 minutes of "Please Stand By".

I really would like the performance increase from 6.2 (and folders)


----------



## mattdb

I would recommend that everyone here email or call and ask for this update to get it moved to a higher priority. Might be pointless, but it sure wont hurt.

Matt

DTV Email Feedback Form

By phone:

For existing DIRECTV® service:
For an account at your home:
1-800-494-4388


----------



## Barryrod

Aquatic said:


> People... it's been this long, they've strung it out long enough and with the MPeg4 stuff, there's no way that 1) they've been working diligently on it and 2) are willing to support it.
> 
> When your DMA comes up for HD LiL or perhaps this fall (for NFLST folks) you'll be "given" the opportunity to upgrade--trade in your current set up for a D* HD-DVR (commonly referred to at the HR20) or lease one. It's pretty simple strong arm tactics mind you--if you want the new tech, you pay the price--trade in or pony up at LEAST your current HR10, perhaps more for a "free" lease upgrade.
> 
> If D* happens to come up with some different model, I highly doubt it'll be advantageous to the people here--it's all about the stock price and revenues.
> 
> Yep, Doom and Gloom and I'm usually optimistic, but in this case, the writing is on the way methinks.


They did update the older S1 SD Dtivos...http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=297224&highlight=update

Could still happen for the HD Dtivos


----------



## newsposter

tbh999 said:


> I have about 45 season passes (SPs), it takes over an *hour* of "Please Stand By" to make a change.


something is very wrong there...even when i had almost 80 SP and a full NP list, changing priorities has taken maybe 10 minutes tops.


----------



## clorox

mattdb said:


> I would recommend that everyone here email or call and ask for this update to get it moved to a higher priority. Might be pointless, but it sure wont hurt.
> 
> Matt
> 
> DTV Email Feedback Form
> 
> By phone:
> 
> For existing DIRECTV® service:
> For an account at your home:
> 1-800-494-4388


Done.

Here's what I posted:

Please make the software update to v6.2 on the HR10-250 a priority. I know you guys are close, but the upgrade planning needs to be accelerated. The more season passes I have, the slower the unit gets, which means I can't enjoy my DirecTV programming. Plus, it would be nice to have folders considering the capacity of this unit.

Thanks!


----------



## PixelFreak

Went to form, copied and pasted most of what you said, added my own little flair, and hope it has somel little impact. Honestly, with Comcast now having Tivo available on their HD recorders and HD locals being carried (Tucson is WAY down on Mpeg4 local rollout), I will make the change if necessary.

PixelFreak

PS - Yes, I get locals in HD OTA as well, but DTV doesn't need to know that. I wouldn't mind getting rid of the antenna anyway...


----------



## STL

mattdb said:


> I would recommend that everyone here email or call and ask for this update to get it moved to a higher priority. Might be pointless, but it sure wont hurt.
> 
> Matt
> 
> DTV Email Feedback Form
> 
> By phone:
> 
> For existing DIRECTV® service:
> For an account at your home:
> 1-800-494-4388


I agree it worth a shot

And while you at it also email DISH Network (via this link ) to make it clear that you would switch to them if they partnered with TiVo. If enough DirecTiVo owners did the same maybe that might have have an effect.


----------



## zalusky

Especially if Dish would support the latest Tivo features.


----------



## MisterEd

If it took over an hour you some other problems with your box. Sometimes 3 minutes seems like 15. 


tbh999 said:


> I have about 45 season passes (SPs), it takes over an *hour* of "Please Stand By" to make a change.


----------



## DDayDawg

I sent a very nice message to Dish and a not-so-nice message to DirecTV. I'm leaving as soon as I can't have TiVo anymore anyway so no reason to beat around the bush.


----------



## georgemoe

mattdb said:


> I would recommend that everyone here email or call and ask for this update to get it moved to a higher priority. Might be pointless, but it sure wont hurt.
> 
> Matt
> 
> DTV Email Feedback Form
> 
> By phone:
> 
> For existing DIRECTV® service:
> For an account at your home:
> 1-800-494-4388


Sent today and got a response in about three hours. Probably canned.



> Dear Mr. Xxxxxxx,
> 
> Thanks for writing. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. The HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get upgrade but the date has yet to be determined. Just be sure to have a continuous land based phone line connected to your system.
> 
> Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our service.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Gary
> DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## clorox

georgemoe said:


> Sent today and got a response in about three hours. Probably canned.


Got the same exact response (from "Gary" no less). "Gary" is probably in India.

Did I say India? I meant, Gary, Indiana


----------



## cheer

clorox said:


> Got the same exact response (from "Gary" no less). "Gary" is probably in India.
> 
> Did I say India? I meant, Gary, Indiana


You'd have better luck if he was in India.

--chris, who never misses an opportunity to take a shot at Indiana


----------



## Anubys

cheer said:


> You'd have better luck if he was in India.


can't be...people in India know how to spell


----------



## STL

clorox said:


> Got the same exact response (from "Gary" no less). "Gary" is probably in India.
> 
> Did I say India? I meant, Gary, Indiana


I got a very differenent response:


> Dear Mr. STL,
> 
> Thanks for writing. I understand your concern about HR10-250 receiver. Our new MPEG-4-capable DIRECTV HD DVR is expected to be available sometime later this year. We're always looking for ways to enhance our services, and customer feedback is very important to us. While I dont have any information today about adding folders, I have forwarded your comments on to DIRECTV management.
> 
> Were committed to enhancing our services with new equipment and new features like home networking, interactive TV and MPEG-4 transmission technology just to name a few. Visit our Media Center at http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headlines.dsp to learn more about these and other new equipment
> 
> You are important to us and we certainly want to keep you as a customer. We know you have a choice in providers, and we must continually earn your business. A service specialist will call you in the next few days to discuss what we can do to meet your needs.
> 
> Thanks again for your suggestion, and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our service.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mary Ivy
> DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## Arcady

I had that exact email almost 2 years ago, minus the part about MPEG-4. They did call me. I said I wanted MRV on Dtivo and they said they were working on it. A couple months later I went ahead and hacked my boxes. I'm glad I didn't wait for them.


----------



## Mikey_C

Regarding the email responses you get from DirecTV...no one actually writes these...they are responses that are sent by a computer progam that scans your email for specific keywords and tries to find the appropriate "canned" response.


----------



## STL

Mikey_C said:


> Regarding the email responses you get from DirecTV...no one actually writes these...they are responses that are sent by a computer progam that scans your email for specific keywords and tries to find the appropriate "canned" response.


That kind of what I thought, but D* most likely does keep track of the numbers of emails they get about different complaints (based on the email scans). So if everyone would complain "early and often" they maybe we'd get the numbers up high enough that D* would actually take notice.


----------



## ebonovic

STL said:


> That kind of what I thought, but D* most likely does keep track of the numbers of emails they get about different complaints (based on the email scans). So if everyone would complain "early and often" they maybe we'd get the numbers up high enough that D* would actually take notice.


D* has already taken notice... the 6.x version is in the works for the HR10
They can't give us a release date, as they don't have one to give.

From what I have been told from several different people (and they all are pretty much on the same page).... is that we are going to see the 6.x variant for the HR10.... much much sooner then later


----------



## mattdb

I replied to one of these "canned" emails and that is how I got into a discussion with DTV.

Atleast I got as far as having some one call me.

Matt


----------



## rttrek

tbh999 said:


> I have about 45 season passes (SPs), it takes over an *hour* of "Please Stand By" to make a change.


As many have said, change the channels on both tuners to unused channels (like 0 and 1) before messing with the database. Things then go *much* faster.

If you are recording something on each tuner, wait until later.


----------



## carguy84

This is the response I JUST got from them, has anyone else been given a URL to check up on as they provided here?

"Thanks for asking about the new software upgrade to your DIRECTV DVR. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs.

The new software will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web site at ' directv - com / dvr62upgrade'."

Seems I can't post a URL, is this website unmoderated or something? Anyway, if some one who has more then 5 posts can make that into a working URL, that'd be great.

Chip-

PS: 5 posts before being able to post a URL is just plain annoying .


----------



## Arcady

That's the email they sent out last year for the standard definition units. If you read the web page, it says the HR10-250 is not included.


----------



## MisterEd

Old News from CSR Robots .... From that link you posted:
_Are all DIRECTV DVRs receiving this upgrade?
No. DIRECTV DVR models SONY SAT-T60, PHILIPS DSR6000R, HUGHES GXCEBOT and HR10-250 will not  receive the 6.2 software upgrade at this time._



carguy84 said:


> This is the response I JUST got from them, has anyone else been given a URL to check up on as they provided here?
> 
> "Thanks for asking about the new software upgrade to your DIRECTV DVR. The DIRECTV DVR 6.2 upgrade will enhance your DVR experience by making the navigation faster and giving you new ways to organize and search for programs.
> 
> The new software will be automatically downloaded to your DIRECTV DVR receiver during its nightly phone call, so all you need to do to receive it is to have a land based phone line connected to your DVR (Please Note: some older DVR models may not be able to utilize the new features). To find out more, including if your DVR will be getting the new features, visit our web site at ' directv - com / dvr62upgrade'."
> 
> Seems I can't post a URL, is this website unmoderated or something? Anyway, if some one who has more then 5 posts can make that into a working URL, that'd be great.
> 
> Chip-
> 
> PS: 5 posts before being able to post a URL is just plain annoying .


----------



## ebonovic

carguy84 said:


> PS: 5 posts before being able to post a URL is just plain annoying .


But... you can't imagine how annoying it would be if new users could post links with their first post....

Talk about SPAM city...


----------



## Mikey_C

rttrek said:


> As many have said, change the channels on both tuners to unused channels (like 0 and 1) before messing with the database. Things then go *much* faster.
> 
> If you are recording something on each tuner, wait until later.


The best way to improve the speed of re-organizing SP's is to hack your Tivo and use TivoWeb. I do all my SP's now through my PC and it's really fast.


----------



## MarcusInMD

ebonovic said:


> D* has already taken notice... the 6.x version is in the works for the HR10
> They can't give us a release date, as they don't have one to give.
> 
> From what I have been told from several different people (and they all are pretty much on the same page).... is that we are going to see the 6.x variant for the HR10.... much much sooner then later


Not to beat a dead horse, but you said that you believed sooner rather than later over a month ago now. I am not attacking you so please don't take it that way but "soon, rather than later" to DirecTV might be 100 years from now. We all were supposed to get 6.2 "SOON" after they completed upgrades on the SD Tivo boxes over a year ago now..

My OPINION is that many will be waiting until they are old and gray for this so called upgrade.


----------



## ebonovic

I know.... it's my "phrase".... They are working on it though... I have gotten way to many PM and emails telling me nearly identical things...

Just the common thing amongst them is a lack of a date... 
My bet with AbMagFab was till the end of Q2... I got a few weeks left on that.


----------



## DDayDawg

Best... reply... ever!



> Dear Mr. X,
> 
> Thank you for writing. I apologize for any inconvenience caused by not receiving a software upgrade. Unfortunately, I have no information if or when we will be upgrading these receivers.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jim S
> DIRECTV Customer Service


It made me laugh, it made me cry. Brilliant writing!


----------



## chris_h

ebonovic said:


> I know.... it's my "phrase".... They are working on it though... I have gotten way to many PM and emails telling me nearly identical things...
> 
> Just the common thing amongst them is a lack of a date...
> My bet with AbMagFab was till the end of Q2... I got a few weeks left on that.


And are you betting that you will win that bet?


----------



## ebonovic

Let's put it this way.....

I have a can of C2 sitting on the counter, just in case.....


----------



## chris_h

What is C2?


----------



## ebonovic

That was a type of "Coke" with a new sweetner that came out about two years ago.


----------



## brannicj

Here is what I got from Directv yesterday 

"Dear Mr. Smith,

Thanks for writing. At this point there are no set plans for a software upgrade for the HR10-250. We will generally send out the software updates if there is a known issue with the receiver that needs our attention. As of yet, we have not received any complaints about the HR10-250 that would call for a software upgrade. Also, as you may know, we will very shortly be coming our with the new MPEG 4 HD DVR which will have the most cutting edge technology available. This is expected to be available sometime this summer. 

I hope this answers your questions. Thanks again for writing, and stay tuned to D**** for the latest news and information about our service.

Sincerely,

Mindy
DIRECTV Customer Service"

I guess they don't think the rebooting and the slowness is anything out of the ordinary.


----------



## ebonovic

They really need to keep their canned-email messages in sync...


----------



## codespy

brannicj said:


> As of yet, we have not received any complaints about the HR10-250 that would call for a software upgrade.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mindy
> DIRECTV Customer Service"


OOOOKKKKK, Mindy. And some on this site attack others for lying about multiple receivers on an account......I have personally sent in 18+ complaints about the HR10-250......I think Mindy should go to jail with the rest of the violators for such an outright lie.....

OK I'm done now.


----------



## hiker

brannicj said:


> Here is what I got from Directv yesterday
> 
> "Dear Mr. Smith,
> 
> Thanks for writing. At this point there are no set plans for a software upgrade for the HR10-250. We will generally send out the software updates if there is a known issue with the receiver that needs our attention. As of yet, we have not received any complaints about the HR10-250 that would call for a software upgrade. Also, as you may know, we will very shortly be coming our with the new MPEG 4 HD DVR which will have the most cutting edge technology available. This is expected to be available sometime this summer.
> 
> I hope this answers your questions. Thanks again for writing, and stay tuned to D**** for the latest news and information about our service.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mindy
> DIRECTV Customer Service"
> 
> I guess they don't think the rebooting and the slowness is anything out of the ordinary.


Sounds like D*'s update plan for the HR10 is to replace them all with the HR20.


----------



## Adam1115

I think I've got it now.

YES, DirecTV WILL be updating the HR10-250 to 6.x, which happens to be the code name for the HR20.


----------



## richierich

I told all of you a year ago that it won't happen because they are not going to invest any more resources in a unit that they are going to replace with their own DVR, the HR20-250!! But so many were blind and just don't understand the corporate mentality & strategy!!!


----------



## Arcady

Then please explain why the series 1 D* boxes (not made in years) were given an update a few months ago. Nobody has explained why they would bother to update those ancient units.


----------



## BigBearf

Here is the response that I got yesterday

Thanks for writing. I'm sorry but we don't have the exact date yet when the DIRECTV HR10-250 will get the upgrade. However I have forwarded your comments to the DIRECTV management.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our service.

Sincerely,

Kristoffer
DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## codespy

At this point, on DirecTV.com, the only 2 valid/working URL's are for the 3.5 on series 1 and 6.2 for Series 2 units......scanned all the way to 7.5 and nothing in the system.......if that means anything to anyone......yes we know richierich what it means to you.


----------



## Worth

DDayDawg said:


> Best... reply... ever!
> 
> It made me laugh, it made me cry. Brilliant writing!


Awesome post. I too emailed DTV using that form that was pasted a few posts ago. Rise up my brothers!


----------



## smimi10

Here's the reply I got back last night:

"Dear Mr. Smith,

Thank you for writing and inquiring on the v6.2 software upgrade. After researching, I do not have any information on the HR10-250 receivers getting the upgrade. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. Please stay tuned to directv.***/dvr62upgrade for information on upgrades and features.

Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

Tia
DIRECTV Customer Service"

Gosh, "Tia" sounds sweet.


----------



## zalusky

Why do you guys contact customer service??? Call management! Show up at their trade booths!


----------



## MikeCC

I just got an email reply to my concern:

_Thanks for writing. I understand your frustration on this matter and I know how this can affect how you feel about DIRECTV.

While DIRECTV has introduced a new DVRs, we will continue to support the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo and standalone TiVo service. If you are using the DIRECTV DVR with TiVo or a TiVo stand alone you can continue using your existing equipment.

Additionally, the HD-DVR (DIRECTV HR10-250) will get the 6.2 upgrade. But the date has yet to be determined.

Should you have other concerns, feel free to write us back or call us at 1-800-531-5000 and a Customer Service Representative will be happy to assist you.

If you reply to this email, be sure to include original messages.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our service.

Sincerely,

Marilou
DIRECTV Customer Service_

I choose to take some comfort in the reply that our 10250 is supposed to get 6.2. If that means I am foolish or naive, then so be it. My delusions give me comfort.


----------



## cheer

MikeCC said:


> I choose to take some comfort in the reply that our 10250 is supposed to get 6.2. If that means I am foolish or naive, then so be it. My delusions give me comfort.


Glad to hear it, 'cos they've been saying this for a long, long time.


----------



## Redux

zalusky said:


> Why do you guys contact customer service??? Call management! Show up at their trade booths!


 ... ask ebonovic


----------



## ebonovic

Ask me what?


----------



## cheer

ebonovic said:


> Ask me what?


What's the fastest land mammal?


----------



## AstroDad

cheer said:


> What's the fastest land mammal?


my wife at a half off sale


----------



## zalusky

ebonovic said:


> Ask me what?


I was referring to the fact that everybody asks customer service when are we getting the update! We really should start finding/asking other kinds of DTV people.

So they brought up you as the mole.


----------



## 100Tbps

AstroDad said:


> my wife at a half off sale


Without a doubt this is the funniest post in this entire thread so far!
:up: :up: :up:


----------



## cheer

AstroDad said:


> my wife at a half off sale


He's here all week, folks.


----------



## ebonovic

zalusky said:


> I was referring to the fact that everybody asks customer service when are we getting the update! We really should start finding/asking other kinds of DTV people.
> 
> So they brought up you as the mole.


Got cha..... Once I hear something I will let you all know.


----------



## Wilhite

GalenMD said:


> Anyway, they said 1-2 months before it hits our boxes and that was just less than one month ago. My guess is that we will have it by the end of June.





ebonovic said:


> That would concur with what my source led me to believe as well....
> Plus I had a second person contact me with similar information, that I have no reason not to believe....
> 
> It is is looking promising.


Well... with June coming rapidly to an end, I'm wondering if GalenMD and/or Ebonovic have any updates on the status of this project. Have your well placed sources given you any additional information?


----------



## bsgoren

Wilhite said:


> Well... with June coming rapidly to an end, I'm wondering if GalenMD and/or Ebonovic have any updates on the status of this project. Have your well placed sources given you any additional information?


At this point, it's got to be a lost cause. I'm sure their working much harder on rolling out their new D*TV HD-DVR.


----------



## ebonovic

I had a conversation with my contact late last week.
Specifically asking for an update.

It looks like I am going to be paying out another Can of Coke, as it isn't going to be the end of June.

As for the update it self...
It's testing has been going very well, and they are simply waiting to do their last round of testing. And setup for the rollout.

Part of our discussion included that they are working on the "release notes" for the software update.

You are correct, they do have some other things higher in the que... the R15, the HD MPEG-4 Rollouts, some RSN-HD rollouts, some other software updates. The HR20 is not really effecting the 6.x software for the HR10

I hopefully will have a more definitive time frame in July.

I have had no less then three other very credible sources, confirm that it does exists. it is comming... One of them has actually seen it on an HR10...

Still no hard date tough... 
Looks like I'll get it just in time to turn the unit off...


----------



## rminsk

ebonovic said:


> Part of our discussion included that they are working on the "release notes" for the software update.


That is the proof that DirecTV is not rolling it out. When was the last time DirecTV had release notes?


----------



## 100Tbps

ebonovic said:


> I had a conversation with my contact late last week.
> Specifically asking for an update.
> 
> It looks like I am going to be paying out another Can of Coke, as it isn't going to be the end of June.
> 
> As for the update it self...
> It's testing has been going very well, and they are simply waiting to do their last round of testing. And setup for the rollout.
> 
> Part of our discussion included that they are working on the "release notes" for the software update.
> 
> You are correct, they do have some other things higher in the que... the R15, the HD MPEG-4 Rollouts, some RSN-HD rollouts, some other software updates. The HR20 is not really effecting the 6.x software for the HR10
> 
> I hopefully will have a more definitive time frame in July.
> 
> I have had no less then three other very credible sources, confirm that it does exists. it is comming... One of them has actually seen it on an HR10...
> 
> Still no hard date tough...
> Looks like I'll get it just in time to turn the unit off...


This may not be a fair question since no one in the wild has seen this update - but maybe your sources can share some information if they know or came across it during testing.

Any idea what will happen if to hacked units? I installed the Zipper and have the unit on my local LAN. I haven't done much with it other than add the channel logos but using the web GUI is nice to edit Season Passes. I didn't read the part about "MRV between 3.1 and 6.2 isn't supported" until after I hacked my SD and HD units, but I didn't see any point in unhacking them - until now that is - if it might cause a problem with an incoming 6.2. Obviously, I'd have time to resolve this when I see others here post they've started to see 6.2, but any thoughts on this? Wasn't there an even older unit (not HD) that just went to 3.1? Maybe their experiences can predict ours?

Thanks in advance and sorry if this is dumb^H^H^H^H rookie post. The Zipper was made for people like me!


----------



## rminsk

The DirecTiVo installs new software on a different partition and reboots from the different partition. The upgrade will go fine but you will loose all your hacks and you will have to reinstall them. There are ways to block the new install, go to the underground forum and check. There are also ways to manual install a software upgrade. Again check the undergorund forum.


----------



## ebonovic

rminsk said:


> That is the proof that DirecTV is not rolling it out. When was the last time DirecTV had release notes?


Actually the last R15 release, I was provided with "official" release notes.

We set up a forum over at DBSTalk specifically for them...



(Note there has only been one so far)


----------



## Markman07

Earl thanks for the info! I just got my first HR10-250 last week. So I don't have an HD TV yet ! The ducks are almost in a row in my part of Minnesota! Now if 6.2 is coming by summer/fall that is excellent news.


----------



## jimmyk

Arcady said:


> I had that exact email almost 2 years ago, minus the part about MPEG-4. They did call me. I said I wanted MRV on Dtivo and they said they were working on it. A couple months later I went ahead and hacked my boxes. I'm glad I didn't wait for them.


Hey Arcady,

You hacked the HR10-250? Do you have folders, etc. on there now?


----------



## Adam1115

100Tbps said:


> Any idea what will happen if to hacked units? I installed the Zipper and have the unit on my local LAN. I haven't done much with it other than add the channel logos but using the web GUI is nice to edit Season Passes. I didn't read the part about "MRV between 3.1 and 6.2 isn't supported" until after I hacked my SD and HD units, but I didn't see any point in unhacking them - until now that is - if it might cause a problem with an incoming 6.2. Obviously, I'd have time to resolve this when I see others here post they've started to see 6.2, but any thoughts on this? Wasn't there an even older unit (not HD) that just went to 3.1? Maybe their experiences can predict ours?


YEAH RIGHT, try to get Beta testers to hack their units for MRV and see how fast the update disappears.

If you want the update, you DON'T want directv to think it can be hacked easily.


----------



## rminsk

jimmyk said:


> Hey Arcady,
> 
> You hacked the HR10-250? Do you have folders, etc. on there now?


The hacks do not give you folders. Only the 6.2 software update does that.


----------



## Arcady

I should have said that I hacked my SD units. I never bothered with the HR10-250 since there's no MRV for it, and I have a phone line plugged into it. If they ever release 6.2 for the HR10, I'll buy at least two more of them and hack/zipper them.


----------



## vernsh

100Tbps said:


> Without a doubt this is the funniest post in this entire thread so far!
> :up: :up: :up:


No, the one about "beating a dead horse" was the funniest. Pretty much sums up this thread.


----------



## Lee L

ebonovic said:


> As for the update it self...
> It's testing has been going very well, and they are simply waiting to do their last round of testing. And setup for the rollout.


Earl, lets hope you atre right in that it comes soon and is relatively bug-free. Pretty much everything DirecTv does now reminds me of my years with Dish when the next release was just around the corner and always was going to fix everything. They always reported the testing was going well etc, etc. Then the update would come and major bugs would be discovered within 24 hours of release. Things so basic it would seem impossible to ignore in testing. Hopefully this is not the case this time. (though the R-15 does not make me hopeful)


----------



## codespy

Earl, would the release notes perhaps include the web page created at DirecTV dot com similar to that of the 3.5 and 6.2 for SD upgrades which occured?

No big deal, just curious.


----------



## ebonovic

codespy said:


> Earl, would the release notes perhaps include the web page created at DirecTV dot com similar to that of the 3.5 and 6.2 for SD upgrades which occured?
> 
> No big deal, just curious.


I don't know what the contents are going to be...
And I am sure they will do something similar on DirecTV.Com

The Release notes I have been given (the officinal and non-official ones) where basically PM's containing the contents of the release.


----------



## MichaelK

ebonovic said:


> I... One of them has actually seen it on an HR10...


hundreds- maybe thousands so it on an HR10 at CES...


----------



## BillyT2002

Lee L said:


> Earl, lets hope you atre right in that it comes soon and is relatively bug-free. Pretty much everything DirecTv does now reminds me of my years with Dish when the next release was just around the corner and always was going to fix everything. They always reported the testing was going well etc, etc. Then the update would come and major bugs would be discovered within 24 hours of release. Things so basic it would seem impossible to ignore in testing. Hopefully this is not the case this time. (though the R-15 does not make me hopeful)


You have just accurately described the chaos that results when a company writes software using the waterfall software development method. This is why I have no faith that DirecTV will succeed in writing good software. They are in business to distribute entertainment media, and not to write software. They should leave the software development to companies that are in business to write good software and have a track record of writing good software.

If DirecTV really wants to do this right, they should hire good software developers and QA people and adopt the agile and test-driven software development methods which I have described within this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4148485&&#post4148485


----------



## drew2k

BillyT2002 said:


> You have just accurately described the chaos that results when a company writes software using the waterfall software development method. This is why I have no faith that DirecTV will succeed in writing good software. They are in business to distribute entertainment media, and not to write software. They should leave the software development to companies that are in business to write good software and have a track record of writing good software.


DirecTV isn't writing the software - NDS is. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)


----------



## litzdog911

drew2k said:


> DirecTV isn't writing the software - NDS is. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)


NDS provides DirecTV's new non-Tivo DVRs. I'm not sure if DirecTV has kept a different team for the Tivo-based software.


----------



## BillyT2002

DirecTV, NDS - it really doesn't matter which it is as NDS owns DirecTV and neither one of them is a software company whose principle business it is to write good software. So, everything I stated above still applies.


----------



## pintnight

I thought DirecTV is going to use Microsoft Vista Media Center? 

http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/10/directv-inks-deal-with-microsoft/
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/jan06/01-05WMDIRECTVPR.mspx 
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060105-5913.html

Why I don't think DirecTV is going to release the new HD DVR with MPEG4 until 2007 when MS releases it's Vista Media Center.


----------



## wmcbrine

Surely _Tivo_ is responsible for any updates to the HR10-250 software? With DirecTV just specifying features and approving/disapproving the result?


----------



## rminsk

pintnight said:


> I thought DirecTV is going to use Microsoft Vista Media Center?
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/10/directv-inks-deal-with-microsoft/
> http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/jan06/01-05WMDIRECTVPR.mspx
> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060105-5913.html
> 
> Why I don't think DirecTV is going to release the new HD DVR with MPEG4 until 2007 when MS releases it's Vista Media Center.


That is for adding functionality like TiVo2Go on there own DVR. Microsoft is not suppling the DVR for DirecTV.


----------



## drew2k

Of course, TiVo is writing the software for 6.1 or whatever equivalent version we end up getting, and of course TiVo is following DirecTV's direction about what to implement. 

Sorry for my earlier post about NDS writing the software - I had a few tabs of TCF open in Firefox and thought I was responding in a thread about the R15.


----------



## kbohip

ebonovic said:


> I had a conversation with my contact late last week.
> Specifically asking for an update.
> 
> It looks like I am going to be paying out another Can of Coke, as it isn't going to be the end of June.
> 
> As for the update it self...
> It's testing has been going very well, and they are simply waiting to do their last round of testing. And setup for the rollout.
> 
> Part of our discussion included that they are working on the "release notes" for the software update.
> 
> You are correct, they do have some other things higher in the que... the R15, the HD MPEG-4 Rollouts, some RSN-HD rollouts, some other software updates. The HR20 is not really effecting the 6.x software for the HR10
> 
> I hopefully will have a more definitive time frame in July.
> 
> I have had no less then three other very credible sources, confirm that it does exists. it is comming... One of them has actually seen it on an HR10...
> 
> Still no hard date tough...
> Looks like I'll get it just in time to turn the unit off...


If they ever did come out with the 6.2 update for the HR10-250, I'd never get rid of this thing! Seriously, this has been one of the best pieces of electronics I've ever owned, not for it's speed or features of course, but for it's reliability. An HR10-250 with increased menu speeds and folders is all I want. That's it. Nothing else. I

Unless of course the HR20 turns out to be even better, but after seeing the R15 fiasco, I know it won't.  Anyway, I guess I'll have to start plugging this into the phone line again.


----------



## clorox

Earl,

We're going to need another update pretty soon or I'm going to jump out my window.


----------



## ebonovic

I hear you...

Just don't jump... Think of the Streets and Sanitation workers that would have to clean up that mess...


----------



## newsposter

notice his lack of confirming rumored dates


----------



## joetoronto

newsposter said:


> notice his lack of confirming rumored dates


i noticed.


----------



## ebonovic

newsposter said:


> notice his lack of confirming rumored dates


Who me?

All I know is that my End of June date, changed to.... 


> "it is pending final testing, and it is looking good...."


but I wasn't given an updated time frame, hence I am not going to hazard a guess... other then "sooner then later" 

If I get a date... I'll give a date...


----------



## whitepelican

ebonovic said:


> If I get a date...


It might help if you put down that remote for a few hours.


----------



## ebonovic

whitepelican said:


> It might help if you put down that remote for a few hours.


If I get that kind of Date.... I would be in some serious trouble with the wife...


----------



## newsposter

I hope you didn't copy and paste his reply (assuming he works for DTV) as they can scan their servers for the exact phrase and shut him down


----------



## ebonovic

It wasn't a email message...

And given the person I have been talking with.... I am not too worried about "the source" being shut down.


----------



## codespy

ALLRIGHT all you NAYSAYERS.........HERE COMES YOUR UPDATE.....HOOORRRAAAYYY!

I will not be committing suicide after all!!!!!!!

http://directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P3200006


----------



## tase2

codespy said:


> ALLRIGHT all you NAYSAYERS.........HERE COMES YOUR UPDATE.....HOOORRRAAAYYY!
> 
> I will not be committing suicide after all!!!!!!!
> 
> http://directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P3200006


Holly Crap!!!

Is this really going to happen??? :up: :up:


----------



## PJO1966

Holy Crap!


----------



## stevel

I knew the HR10 would never get 6.2 - it would be called something else.


----------



## Adam1115

Here's kind of a problem... "Just make sure your receiver is continuously connected to a land-based phone line and we'll do the rest!"

Crap... I'm going to have to figure out a way to get this damn thing plugged into a phone line..


----------



## whitepelican

That's odd. It reads like they are sending this 6.3 upgrade to all Series 2 DTivos with the exception of the R10. But then further down the page it says "We're upgrading your *DIRECTV HD DVR* as part of your normal DIRECTV® DVR with TiVo® service at no additional cost." I'm wondering if they forgot to change the wording from the 6.2 upgrade notice. I sure hope this 6.3 upgrade isn't going to affect non-HD Tivos. But either way, it sounds like great news for the HR10-250.


----------



## codespy

Ok, just for the record.....AbMagFab, Richierich, MichaelK- you guys are not eligible to receive the upgrade ever for all your negativity throughout the course of this thread......the rest of us will be speeding thru the menus with our folders! LOL


----------



## codespy

stevel said:


> I knew the HR10 would never get 6.2 - it would be called something else.


Should I start a new 6.3 thread?


----------



## tase2

Quick question

Will connecting the phone line and accepting the 6.3 undo any previous "modifications" that have been done to the HDTivo?


----------



## tase2

codespy said:


> Ok, just for the record.....AbMagFab, Richierich, MichaelK- you guys are not eligible to receive the upgrade ever for all your negativity throughout the course of this thread......the rest of us will be speeding thru the menus with our folders! LOL


----------



## codespy

More than likely.


----------



## whitepelican

tase2 said:


> Quick question
> 
> Will connecting the phone line and accepting the 6.3 undo any previous "modifications" that have been done to the HDTivo?


If you've done many modifications, one of them probably includes "UPGRADESOFTWARE=FALSE" in your bootpage, so the update won't happen automatically for anyone in that situation. But if you change the bootpage to allow the upgrade, then your hacks will be disabled. There was a pretty easy to follow process to do the upgrade and keep your hacks installed when 6.2 came out for the SD DTivos, so I would imagine the same could be done this time.


----------



## ebonovic

I still owe abMagFab a coke... I was off by a week (8 days actually)


----------



## PJO1966

Do we know when the rollout will start?


----------



## ebonovic

I am waiting for a reply from my contact, probably won't have it till Monday.


----------



## bidger

codespy said:


> Should I start a new 6.3 thread?


I'd wait until it's actually deployed so people can post their experiences.

Fantastic! This is all I can ask for. Of course, it would be nice if 6.3 addresses the audio dropouts and freezing. But, the speed is my major complaint so it's good to know that's being addressed.


----------



## RunnerFL

tase2 said:


> Quick question
> 
> Will connecting the phone line and accepting the 6.3 undo any previous "modifications" that have been done to the HDTivo?


Not if one of the "modifications" you applied was the change to make it not install upgrades.


----------



## joetoronto

Adam1115 said:


> Here's kind of a problem... "Just make sure your receiver is continuously connected to a land-based phone line and we'll do the rest!"
> 
> Crap... I'm going to have to figure out a way to get this damn thing plugged into a phone line..


yup, if we knew exactly when the update was coming, it wouldn't be such a pain.


----------



## stevel

The usual recommendation if you have "modified" your TiVo is to set UPGRADESOFTWARE=FALSE, wait for the upgrade slices to appear on the system, and then hand-install the upgrade. I have never done this - but there are general instructions in "the forum that shall not be named here" where hacks are discussed and I'm sure that, when the time comes, details on installing 6.3 will be offered there.


----------



## mr.unnatural

> yup, if we knew exactly when the update was coming, it wouldn't be such a pain.


 How's this?


----------



## PJO1966

mr.unnatural said:


> How's this?


Looks the same as the link listed 20 posts ago. Has something been added?


----------



## drew2k

Maybe the discussion about the 6.3 upgrade should be moved to the new thread about it ?

By the way, it's pretty cool that we can answer the question posed in this thread title with a resounding, "No! The HR10-250 will never get the 6.2 update." And all I can say is, _Woo Hoo_!


----------



## mr.unnatural

> Looks the same as the link listed 20 posts ago. Has something been added?


Nope. I just didn't look high enough up on the page to see that it had already been posted. I shoulda guessed someone already beat me to it.


----------



## jhimmel

Just to re-post the post that started this thread (on 05-17-2005!)

"Will the HR10-250 EVER get the 6.2 Update ??
CrazyFred, ,

You were right on the Money about the 6.2 upgrade starting may 16th. Thanks for letting us know this information.

The Only problem Im having now is with the Update to my SD-DVR40
and SD-DVR80 is Now my HR10-250 is Really Really SLOW!

I know they will start swapping out the HR10-250 near the end of this year for the new MPGE4 receivers, and I will be probably one of the first to get swapped out (NY is market #1)

But I need a Speed increase for the HR10-250 NOW!!!.
It has become "disgustingly" slow. It took me nearly 5 minutes
when scheduling a season pass for the "please wait" to clear the screen.

Since we paid so much for our HD-Tivos the least D* can do is let us ENJOY the next 6 months or so with a faster more Efficient HD-Tivo

From what Ive read on various forums its believed that D* has the Update for the HR10-250 ready to go but they are waiting out the SD update.

Is this true CrazyFred ??? If so are they still planning to send the update soon ???

Any Information will be Greatly Appreciated

Thank You. "
___________________________________________________________________


Notice the part about DTV swapping out the HR10-250 for the MPEG4 unit "towards the end of the year"?? (that was end of 2005!)


----------



## bigrig

codespy said:


> Ok, just for the record.....AbMagFab, Richierich, MichaelK- you guys are not eligible to receive the upgrade ever for all your negativity throughout the course of this thread......the rest of us will be speeding thru the menus with our folders! LOL


  WooooHooooo!


----------



## PJO1966

AbMagFab said:


> I'll go on record as saying that we will never see this update, or at best, months after they release their own HD DVR (so at best, the end of 2006). And even then, it won't be 6.2, it will be 3.2 with just the speed update - no folders, and no ability to hack HMO/MRV into it.
> 
> I'll have two Series 3 SA HD Tivo for OTA HD before DirecTV releases 6.x for the HD Tivo.


Another blast from the past (January of this year).


----------



## ebonovic

I guess technically...... I guess the answer to this thread is:

No..

The HR10-250 will never get the 6.2 update.

It is getting the 6.3

I make a request... please no gang piling on anyone... that is not good for the forum or the community. Everyone had their right to their opinion, based on their experience and the information they had.

Some people where right, some where wrong... And technically... I was wrong too... I did say the end of June 2006.

But regardless, between the official confirmation from DirecTV yesterday regarding the HR20-700 (Fall of 2006), and today's Official confirmation regarding 6.3 for the HR10-250...
And last weeks release of an update for the R15, and new locals in HD and some RSN in HD...

This has been one heck of a last 14 days for DirecTV.

So MODS... can this thread bee official closed, as the question has been officially answered.


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