# Does a wired connection work better?



## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

My husband would rather get ethernet extenders to hard wire the minis in to the internet connection.

Any by wired, I mean through our power lines on an extender box, NOT hard wired throughout the home.

I thought I had read that a MoCA bridge connection works better???

Neither of us is that technology savvy, so explain it to me simply please.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

We have done this with the ONE mini we have and it isn't working well at all. It is glitching, freezing, or not working at all.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

While TiVo strongly suggests using wired, either MoCa or hardwired, I am wireless. But to do this I spent money on a fast router, and CAT5 to WiFi 802.11ac adapters using the 5G band. I have no problems (the router may have some) and have no failures with watching or moving programs around within my network. Both the TiVo and the Mini "think" they are wired.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> While TiVo strongly suggests using wired, either MoCa or hardwired, I am wireless. But to do this I spent money on a fast router, and CAT5 to WiFi 802.11ac adapters using the 5G band. I have no problems (the router may have some) and have no failures with watching or moving programs around within my network. Both the TiVo and the Mini "think" they are wired.


But this doesn't really answer my question. For one thing, I have no idea what you mean.....are you on a Roamio basic?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

MoCA works very well, as long as the coax cabling in your house is decent quality. I assume you have the base Roamio, so you will need a MoCA adapter at your router and another one at the Roamio. If you have the Roamio Plus/Pro, you wouldn't need a separate adapter at the Roamio, since it has MoCA built in. The Mini also has MoCA built in, so you won't need a separate adapter at the Mini.

TiVo has some diagrams of what this looks like on their website. Click on "Installation":

https://www.tivo.com/shop/mini

TiVo sells a 2-pack of the MoCA adapters on their website for $90.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> MoCA works very well, as long as the coax cabling in your house is decent quality. I assume you have the base Roamio, so you will need a MoCA adapter at your router and another one at the Roamio. The Mini has MoCA built in, so you won't need a separate adapter at the Mini. TiVo sells a 2-pack of the MoCA adapters on their website for $90.


Do I need a 2-pack? I was under the impression I only needed one.

I still don't understand why a wired connection would work worse than a MoCA???


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

If you search, I think you'll find that MOCA is generally preferred over powerline, but plenty of people use powerline without issue. I would go with moca myself, as the Minis uses it directly.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> Do I need a 2-pack? I was under the impression I only needed one.


If you have the base Roamio, you will need 2 adapters, one at the Roamio so it can communicate with the Mini, and another one at your router that will feed an internet connection to the Roamio and the Mini. If you have a Roamio Plus (or Pro) you would only need 1 adapter at your router (or none if you could plug an ethernet cable from the Plus/Pro to your router, as the Plus/Pro can bridge the ethernet/MoCA connection.



DawnW said:


> I still don't understand why a wired connection would work worse than a MoCA???


MoCA is a "wired connection". By "wired connection", are you asking why MoCA works better than wired ethernet? MoCA doesn't necessarily work better than wired ethernet, but many people don't already have their home wired up for ethernet, so for those people MoCA is a better choice.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If you have the base Roamio, you will need 2 adapters, one at the Roamio so it can communicate with the Mini, and another one at your router that will feed an internet connection to the Roamio and the Mini. If you have a Roamio Plus (or Pro) you would only need 1 adapter at your router (or none if you could plug an ethernet cable from the Plus/Pro to your router, as the Plus/Pro can bridge the ethernet/MoCA connection.


Ah, yes, I have the basic. I did not understand that part.



tarheelblue32 said:


> is a "wired connection". By "wired connection", are you asking why MoCA works better than wired ethernet? MoCA doesn't necessarily work better than wired ethernet, but many people don't already have their home wired up for ethernet, so for those people MoCA is a better choice.


Yes. We do not have wired ethernet, but we do have the extenders that go through the power lines. It isn't working well at all, it is so glitchy that it isn't watchable. Will the MoCA be better for that or will it work just as well as what we have?

Dawn


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DawnW said:


> But this doesn't really answer my question. For one thing, I have no idea what you mean.....are you on a Roamio basic?


Sorry, I can't give you the yes/no you must be seeking and yes I have the four tuner basic. Tip: my location shows my zipcode and the model numbers of my Premiere and Roamio.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

jrtroo said:


> If you search, I think you'll find that MOCA is generally preferred over powerline, but plenty of people use powerline without issue. I would go with moca myself, as the Minis uses it directly.


Our power line connection isn't working at all. It freezes so badly we can't even use it.

My concern is that buying a MoCA won't make it any better.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> Sorry, I can't give you the yes/no you must be seeking and yes I have the four tuner basic. Tip: my location shows my zipcode and the model numbers of my Premiere and Roamio.


I just don't know what the items you are talking about are.

What is a wifi 802.11 adapter? I googled CAT5 so I can see what that is.

I do need a faster router. We can't even get the speeds we are paying for at the moment. Which one do you have?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> Our power line connection isn't working at all. It freezes so badly we can't even use it.
> 
> My concern is that buying a MoCA won't make it any better.


Some people have reported getting power line adapters to work, but they are hit or miss. They are very dependent on how your home's electrical wiring is set up. MoCA is also dependent on how your home's coax wiring is set up, but that is obviously independent from the electrical wiring. It is very possible that MoCA adapters would work well when powerline adapters do not.

If I were you, I would give the MoCA adapters a try. It is likely they will just work. And even if they don't work well at first, there are basic things you can do yourself to your home's coax wiring (e.g. removing amps and attenuators, replacing splitters, etc) that will get it to work properly. Whereas unless you are an electrician, there probably isn't much you can safely do yourself to get powerline adapters to work better.

If you do go the MoCA route, it is also a good idea to pick up a POE filter as well to keep all the MoCA signals inside your home. TiVo also sells these on their website.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DawnW said:


> I just don't know what the items you are talking about are.
> 
> What is a wifi 802.11 adapter? I googled CAT5 so I can see what that is.
> 
> I do need a faster router. We can't even get the speeds we are paying for at the moment. Which one do you have?


My Router is a NETGEAR R7500, I use an ASUS EA-N66 on the Roamio and a TiVo AN0100 adapter on the Mini. But you should try MoCa first since you can get support from TiVo. BTW, the router does not affect your internet speed. It can only affect the speed between devices inside your house or between the router and a device. Test with this: http://www.speedtest.net/


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> My Router is a NETGEAR R7500, I use an ASUS EA-N66 on the Roamio and a TiVo AN0100 adapter on the Mini. But you should try MoCa first since you can get support from TiVo. BTW, the router does not affect your internet speed. It can only affect the speed between devices inside your house or between the router and a device. Test with this: http://www.speedtest.net/


Oops, I meant I need a new modem, not router.

When we got Cable TV this past Friday, they upped our internet speed and told us our current modem won't get the speeds we are paying for and we need to upgrade.

Thanks!


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Some people have reported getting power line adapters to work, but they are hit or miss. They are very dependent on how your home's electrical wiring is set up. MoCA is also dependent on how your home's coax wiring is set up, but that is obviously independent from the electrical wiring. It is very possible that MoCA adapters would work well when powerline adapters do not.
> 
> If I were you, I would give the MoCA adapters a try. It is likely they will just work. And even if they doesn't work well at first, there are basic things you can do yourself to your home's coax wiring (e.g. removing amps and attenuators, replacing splitters, etc) that will get it to work properly. Whereas unless you are an electrician, there probably isn't much you can safely do yourself to get powerline adapters to work better.
> 
> *If you do go the MoCA route, it is also a good idea to pick up a POE filter as well to keep all the MoCA signals inside your home. TiVo also sells these on their website.*


Do I need two POE filters as well or just one?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

DawnW said:


> Oops, I meant I need a new modem, not router.
> 
> When we got Cable TV this past Friday, they upped our internet speed and told us our current modem won't get the speeds we are paying for and we need to upgrade.
> 
> Thanks!


Then check the SB6183. Prices vary.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

JoeKustra said:


> Then check the SB6183. Prices vary.


I'd just go with the SB6141. It's less than half the price of the 6183, and there won't be any appreciable difference in performance.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> Do I need two POE filters as well or just one?


Good question. If you have a tuning adapter, then you'd want to get 2, as MoCA signals have been known not to play nicely with tuning adapters. I actually have a 3rd one at my cable modem, but that's probably not really necessary. Some older cable modems also didn't get along with MoCA signals, but the newer modems should be okay without the filter.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Good question. If you have a tuning adapter, then you'd want to get 2, as MoCA signals have been known not to play nicely with tuning adapters. I actually have a 3rd one at my cable modem, but that's probably not really necessary. Some older cable modems also didn't get along with MoCA signals, but the newer modems should be okay without the filter.


Is a tuning adapter that DTA thing/box?


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Thank you. Looking at them, I think he SB6141 was the one I was originally looking at and would probably suit my needs for a long while.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> Thank you. Looking at them, I think he SB6141 was the one I was originally looking at and would probably suit my needs for a long while.


I've been using the SB6141 on TWC's network for about 2 years now and it has worked like a charm for me. I suggest you buy the white one rather than the black one.



DawnW said:


> Is a tuning adapter that DTA thing/box?


A tuning adapter is a device that you connect to the Roamio via a USB cable to be able to receive the SDV (Switched Digital Video) channels.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/307/kw/sdv/r_id/100041

It will look like one of these 2 boxes:

[media]http://support.tivo.com/euf/assets/images/tivo/TuningAdapters.jpg[/media]


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I've been using the SB6141 on TWC's network for about 2 years now and it has worked like a charm for me. I suggest you buy the white one rather than the black one.
> 
> A tuning adapter is a device that you connect to the Roamio via a USB cable to be able to receive the SDV (Switched Digital Video) channels.
> 
> ...


Why the white one? Aren't they the same?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> Why the white one? Aren't they the same?


That's kind of a complicated question. From what I have read, the white version is intended for retail customers and the black version is intended to be sold in bulk to cable companies. So if you find a black one being sold, it is possible that it is either stolen, or excess used ones that have been sold off by some cable operator. There are lots of reviews on Amazon that seem to confirm this.

Now, I have read a few reports from people that they have found the black version in retail packaging, but I've never seen it personally. It's possible they were mistaking the 6121 for the 6141, as they look pretty much identical.

It's also possible there really are some legitimate retail 6141s in black out there. If you are buying it from a large, reputable retailer, it's probably fine, but I wouldn't buy the black version unless it was from somewhere like Best Buy.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> That's kind of a complicated question. From what I have read, the white version is intended for retail customers and the black version is intended to be sold in bulk to cable companies. So if you find a black one being sold, it is possible that it is either stolen, or excess used ones that have been sold off by some cable operator. There are lots of reviews on Amazon that seem to confirm this.
> 
> Now, I have read a few reports from people that they have found the black version in retail packaging, but I've never seen it personally. It's possible they were mistaking the 6121 for the 6141, as they look pretty much identical.
> 
> It's also possible there really are some legitimate retail 6141s in black out there. If you are buying it from a large, reputable retailer, it's probably fine, but I wouldn't buy the black version unless it was from somewhere like Best Buy.


Thank you. After you said that I looked it up on Amazon and found something similar. No wonder the white ones are a bit higher priced. I would have had no idea!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> While TiVo strongly suggests using wired, either MoCa or hardwired, I am wireless. But to do this I spent money on a fast router, and CAT5 to WiFi 802.11ac adapters using the 5G band. I have no problems (the router may have some) and have no failures with watching or moving programs around within my network. Both the TiVo and the Mini "think" they are wired.


I have been able to have a rock solid experience using a 5Ghz wireless N bridge with my Minis. Whether I use wireless, MoCA, or Ethernet, the user experience is identical in my setup with four Minis.

But I also have a very robust wireless network. I have several dozen wireless devices connected to WiFi using four Access Points(each using 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz). And a total of over eighty five devices, with individual IP addresses, on my network.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

New Modem ordered. 

I will get the MoCA ordered in a bit.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

DawnW said:


> New Modem ordered.
> 
> I will get the MoCA ordered in a bit.


Dawn, when you say "MoCa ordered" I think you are talking about the ActionTec Moca bridges.

When the cable company first put in the TiVo two years ago, they used a single ActionTec Moca Bridge as the router was in a different location than the TiVo box. I rearranged the wires so that I could put the TiVo DVR next to the router, and the modem and I was able to connect them with normal CAT-5e (ethernet) wire. I returned the Actiontec Bridge to the cable company as it was no longer needed.

Are your boxes all together?


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Pacomartin said:


> Dawn, when you say "MoCa ordered" I think you are talking about the ActionTec Moca bridges.
> 
> When the cable company first put in the TiVo two years ago, they used a single ActionTec Moca Bridge as the router was in a different location than the TiVo box. I rearranged the wires so that I could put the TiVo DVR next to the router, and the modem and I was able to connect them with normal CAT-5e (ethernet) wire. I returned the Actiontec Bridge to the cable company as it was no longer needed.
> 
> Are your boxes all together?


Right now the Roamio is in the den. The mini we were hooking up in the sunroom, which is connected to the office, where the modem and router are.

Would it help to move the Roamio to the sunroom and connect it straight to the router via ethernet?

Thanks,

Dawn


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

DawnW said:


> Right now the Roamio is in the den. The mini we were hooking up in the sunroom, which is connected to the office, where the modem and router are.
> 
> Would it help to move the Roamio to the sunroom and connect it straight to the router via ethernet?
> 
> ...


If you can connect the Roamio to the router with an ethernet cable, then you should only need 1 MoCA adapter.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If you can connect the Roamio to the router with an ethernet cable, then you should only need 1 MoCA adapter.





Tivo instructions said:


> If you have: TiVo Premiere 4, XL4, and TiVo Roamio Plus or Pro:
> You will need one MoCA Network Adapter if your DVR cannot use a wired Ethernet cable to connect to your home network. I*f your DVR can use a wired Ethernet connection, you do not need a MoCA Network Adapter*; just connect a coax cable to your DVR, and you're all set!
> https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca


I have Tivo Premier 4, and my router is next to it so I can wire the router and the Premier 4 together. So I don't need a Moca Adapter at all.

A Moca Adapter is $50, but two 50' ethernet cables are roughly $25 apiece. The price is about the same, but if you can't run a wire easily you can use the existing coaxial. Depending on the age of your home, you may have pre-existing coaxial or pre-existing CAT 5 or CAT 6 ethernet cable.

If you do use MoCa then it is very important to put a $9 filter on the point of entry into your home. You could easily pick up noise from outside of your house which may be transient in nature and difficult to debut. *I strongly recommend* a second filter to block off your modem from the MoCa network. It isn't always necessary, but it is $9 worth of preventive medicine as some cable modems put out noise as well.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Pacomartin said:


> I have Tivo Premier 4, and my router is next to it so I can wire the router and the Premier 4 together. So I don't need a Moca Adapter at all.


That's true for the 4-tuner Premiers and the 6-tuner Roamios, since they have MoCA built in and can bridge the MoCA and ethernet connection, but the 4-tuner base Roamio does not have this capability. That's why a network with a 4-tuner base Roamio will still need to have 1 MoCA adapter if it is plugged into the router with an ethernet cable. The only exception to this would be if your router has MoCA built in like some FiOS routers have.


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> If you can connect the Roamio to the router with an ethernet cable, then you should only need 1 MoCA adapter.


:up:


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

tarheelblue32 said:


> ... but the 4-tuner base Roamio does not have this capability.


Long term utility may make it more worthwhile to install some CAT 6 cable in the house. My cable company does not have the option to lease the 4-tuner base Roamio (just the 4 tuner Premier), partly because of this reason.

I should note that I must use MoCa since I don't have mini's, but TiVo Previews, which lose most of their functionality unless they are hooked up to coaxial.

I put all three pieces of equipment together so that I can use the MoCa bridge built into the TiVo DVR and I don't need the Actiontec MoCa bridge. But it made for a pile of wires so I used a long HDMI cable (coming off the lower left) to go to the television.









I also use MoCa filters on the point of entry (to middle) and also on the cable to the modem. The technicians tell me that the second filter takes care of a lot of problems from noisy modems. It can't hurt, and it is cheap, so why not do it? It eliminates one source of problems. The other three coaxial cables go to the Tivo boxes and converters.


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## Pacomartin (Jun 11, 2013)

DawnW said:


> Any by wired, I mean through our power lines on an extender box, NOT hard wired throughout the home.
> 
> I thought I had read that a MoCA bridge connection works better???


On the Tivo website, they specifically tell you that Powerline is not reliable.



Tivo website said:


> Note: Wi-Fi and Powerline (also called HomePlug®) networking are not sufficient for streaming shows reliably.
> https://www.tivo.com/my-account/how-to/what-moca


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Powerline can work, sometimes, depending on a whole lot of things. With properly wired coax, MoCA will work. Powerline or wireless bridging are last resort options, and should only be used if coax or Ethernet are not available/feasible.



tarheelblue32 said:


> I'd just go with the SB6141. It's less than half the price of the 6183, and there won't be any appreciable difference in performance.


The 6183 would be required for TWC MAXX! Otherwise, the SB6141 is fine. I have a 6141 on Comcast.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> The 6183 would be required for TWC MAXX! Otherwise, the SB6141 is fine. I have a 6141 on Comcast.


No it wouldn't. TWC's fastest MAXX tier is up to 300Mbps. The 6141 is capable of up to 343Mbps.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> No it wouldn't. TWC's fastest MAXX tier is up to 300Mbps. The 6141 is capable of up to 343Mbps.


They let you have an 8x4 on MAXX?? That doesn't sound right. I would think they would require a 16x4. If they let 8x4s on, one user could just about max out (no pun intended) 8 QAMs, which would wreak a bit of havoc with things...


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Bigg said:


> They let you have an 8x4 on MAXX?? That doesn't sound right. I would think they would require a 16x4. If they let 8x4s on, one user could just about max out (no pun intended) 8 QAMs, which would wreak a bit of havoc with things...


I looked it up, and from TWC's website, you should be able to get "MAXX Ultimate 100" with the 6141, but the 6183 does appear to be required for the MAXX Ultimate 200 or 300.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/support/internet/topics/buy-your-modem.html

MAXX is still only available in a few markets, and I doubt very many people actually spring for the Ultimate 200 or 300, since they are way overpriced. If you tried using the 6141 on the 200 or 300 plan, they may cap you at 100, but they might not. I don't really know for sure.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I looked it up, and from TWC's website, you should be able to get "MAXX Ultimate 100" with the 6141, but the 6183 does appear to be required for the MAXX Ultimate 200 or 300.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/en/support/internet/topics/buy-your-modem.html
> 
> MAXX is still only available in a few markets, and I doubt very many people actually spring for the Ultimate 200 or 300, since they are way overpriced. If you tried using the 6141 on the 200 or 300 plan, they may cap you at 100, but they might not. I don't really know for sure.


Yeah, that makes a heck of a lot more sense, as they wouldn't want to max out 8 QAMs with a single modem. Just didn't smell right!


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## DawnW (Nov 28, 2008)

Pacomartin said:


> Long term utility may make it more worthwhile to install some CAT 6 cable in the house. My cable company does not have the option to lease the 4-tuner base Roamio (just the 4 tuner Premier), partly because of this reason.
> 
> I should note that I must use MoCa since I don't have mini's, but TiVo Previews, which lose most of their functionality unless they are hooked up to coaxial.
> 
> ...


Thank you, this is helpful.


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