# The Walking Dead - Judge, Jury, Executioner OAD 3/4/12



## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

RIP Dale. 



Carl screwed up. Big time.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Spoiler...

Saw the preview for next week. Minor spoiler, but still...



Spoiler



the black guy has a speaking part!


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Carl got his smarts from his momma.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MacThor said:


> Carl got his smarts from his momma.


Oh, I don't know...I think Daddy may have pitched in a little...


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

BradJW said:


> RIP Dale.


More like rrrrip Dale, amirite?

Too soon? 

I must say, I did not see that coming.


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## Mike Wells (Mar 9, 2000)

Another good episode, IMO. I'm surprised, actually - good episodes and they're still at the farm.

spoilerized because it has info from the preview for next week:


Spoiler



Maybe the dude escaping will be the impetus for vacating the farm. The fear of those 30 guys coming for a visit. They are going to either need to split or fortify, and I don't have faith in their fortification skills.



I figured they would let the guy go and follow him to see where this other group is.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I just watched this and I think I missed something. 

Last thing recorded was Dale walking off in a huff and saying to Daryl about how the group is done. 

Did something happen after that?


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

The zombie Carl was having fun with ripped a big hole in his gut..

They mercy killed him with a bullet in the head.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I just watched this and I think I missed something.
> 
> Last thing recorded was Dale walking off in a huff and saying to Daryl about how the group is done.
> 
> Did something happen after that?


You missed the entire end. At least five minutes, maybe ten.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Zevida said:


> You missed the entire end. At least five minutes, maybe ten.


Wow. Okay, I am going to rerecord another showing and add ten minutes to it.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Did anyone notice it said "The Walking Dead PREMIERE" in the bottom left hand corner?


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

I think each episodes 1st airing says that. They've really been hyping the second screen option all season.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

BradJW said:


> I think each episodes 1st airing says that. They've really been hyping the second screen option all season.


I hadn't noticed it before. Seems like a strange thing to do.

Dale did say he didn't want to live in a world like that. Now he doesn't have to.

This is the most unlikable group of people I've ever seen on a TV show. With the exception of Glen, I hate all of them.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

BradJW said:


> Spoiler...
> 
> Saw the preview for next week. Minor spoiler, but still...
> 
> ...


T-Dog had a lot bigger role earlier in the series. Remember him dropping the key on the rooftop in Atlanta and then cutting his hand on the highway? I don't know why they marginalized him so much since they arrived on the farm. Maybe now with Dale gone he'll get some more on-screen time.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I'm concerned about Dale being gone. As annoying as he was, he was the moral compass of the group. The rest of them have pretty much shown that all morals and compassion have gone out the window. Now they have nobody to tell them how to do the right thing.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Jim_TV said:


> T-Dog had a lot bigger role earlier in the series. Remember him dropping the key on the rooftop in Atlanta and then cutting his hand on the highway? I don't know why they marginalized him so much since they arrived on the farm. Maybe now with Dale gone he'll get some more on-screen time.


T-Dog is still recovering from his wrist wound.

Meanwhile everyone else recovered from far more serious wounds


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Whoa, buh-bye Dale! I did _not_ see that coming. I wonder if Dale will have more impact as a "martyr" than he did in life? Will we get a constant stream of "WWDD"? It would probably be more likely if he'd died doing something heroic, instead of getting snuck up on by a mud walker.

I also wonder about Rick's status now that he wimped out _TWICE_ in the same night: first with the kid and then again with Dale. I sort of understand with Randall: that's gotta be unnerving having your son egging you on to shoot someone in the head while he watches. But he should have taken care of Dale; that was weak.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BradJW said:


> I think each episodes 1st airing says that. They've really been hyping the second screen option all season.


I think they get more ratings credit for first/early showings? Which would explain why they're trying to make the first showing more of an event (and one that's DVR-proof to boot)...


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

Meh, I'm almost ready to dump my SP to this show. The events leading up to Dale being mortally wounded could have been written so much better.

He investigates a cow in the field, sees it's guts ripped out, and he doesn't immediately check his back to see if there are zombies behind him?

blah.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

aadam101 said:


> I'm concerned about Dale being gone. As annoying as he was, he was the moral compass of the group.


I think that was the whole point - their humanity/moral compass is now officially gone.

I thought the last 5 minutes was gut wrenching.

I was also slightly horrified at the almost kill of Randall in the barn - if they were going to do it that was about the most inhumane torturous way they could. 
That might be the legal definition of inflicting pain and suffering.

Now PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE can we please see little Carl eaten by a zombie?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Is that the first time we have seen Walkers kill (or at least mortally wound) an animal like that?


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Did not see that one coming. When he approached the cow, why wasn't the walker still gorging itself on the intestines? I assume it had been stuck in the muck for a long time so it would stand to reason it would still have been there. Very unnerving of Carl to say "do it" to Rick. I do like Herschel finally coming around to the severity of the situation they're in.
regarding the previews for next week:


Spoiler



I wonder if Shane smashed himself in the face with a shovel (or "allowed" the kid to take him by surprise) in order to ensure that they kill him instead of keep him.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

MikeMar said:


> Is that the first time we have seen Walkers kill (or at least mortally wound) an animal like that?


They went after Rick's horse when he rode into Atlanta with gusto. I think we've seen other animals eaten as well (in the background).


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> I thought the last 5 minutes was gut wrenching.


Pun intended.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

They really needed to work harder/faster at fixing that fence!!!!

And I wonder once it gets cold enough for that swamp to freeze over a bit, will they be able to just walk right over and to the farm?


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## Sacrilegium (Dec 14, 2006)

Necromancer2006 said:


> They went after Rick's horse when he rode into Atlanta with gusto. I think we've seen other animals eaten as well (in the background).


Yeah, and they were being fed chickens in the barn. Were they live chickens or dead ones? I don't remember.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

It wasn't immediately obvious to me upon my initial watch last night, so I have to ask the question : 

When Dale stumbled upon it, was the cow undead after having been munched on by the walker, or not ?


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

I don't think we've seen any non-human walkers. My guess is it has to do with the chemistry or the virus (?) and the way it works on the human DNA (?)


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

PaulS said:


> It wasn't immediately obvious to me upon my initial watch last night, so I have to ask the question :
> 
> When Dale stumbled upon it, was the cow undead after having been munched on by the walker, or not ?


That's exactly what I thought Dale was thinking when he got attacked by the walker.


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

Of course the main question is how does a walker sneak up on Dale in the middle of an open field? Not only that, but he snuck up on him from the same direction Dale had just came from so how in the world does that happen? Was the walker somehow hiding? They ain't that smart. 

And did I miss something? How does a walker open up a mans gut with one hand? It does not seem like that would be an easy thing to do.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Very unnerving of Carl to say "do it" to Rick. I do like Herschel finally coming around to the severity of the situation they're in.


Carl was a little unnerving thru the episode - calling Carol an idiot, then teasing the Walker once he saw it was stuck, an adult wouldn't do that, they would have just shot the Walker. I saw it almost as bullying - if you can do that to a Walker. He has become a nasty boy that needs a boot strap to his bottom.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I don't think we've seen any non-human walkers. My guess is it has to do with the chemistry or the virus (?) and the way it works on the human DNA (?)


Trying to be very careful not to spoil anything...

Well, having read the comic up through Issue 91, I believe I have a fairly good grasp on how this stuff works. Well, at least in the comics.... As we all know, the creators of this show are very willing to diverge from the comics, and things may work differently. Additionally, the TV show guys have managed to drop a very subtle hint or two along the way as to the nature of the walkers.

So, my question still stands, in either event. Either the show will conform to the comic (which means one thing), or they will diverge (which means something else entirely).

It was a very brief and dark scene, and we didn't get a very good look at the cow. So, my curiosity was piqued. We may not get an answer about non-human walkers, or even the cause behind this whole walker apocalypse, but I thought it might be an interesting topic of conversation here...


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

PaulS said:


> Trying to be very careful not to spoil anything...
> 
> Well, having read the comic up through Issue 91, I believe I have a fairly good grasp on how this stuff works. Well, at least in the comics.... As we all know, the creators of this show are very willing to diverge from the comics, and things may work differently. Additionally, the TV show guys have managed to drop a very subtle hint or two along the way as to the nature of the walkers.
> 
> ...


I think the cow was just "not quite dead yet".

And, wow, has this show ever diverged from the comics.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

PaulS said:


> Trying to be very careful not to spoil anything...
> 
> So, my question still stands, in either event. Either the show will conform to the comic (which means one thing), or they will diverge (which means something else entirely).


response:


Spoiler



I think based on this episode's death, we've got our answer whether or not the show will be conforming to the comic since Dale is still walking around in the comic and not ripped open by a walker in the TV-verse. How much they pick and maintain remains to be seen.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

danterner said:


> More like rrrrip Dale, amirite?


:up: Well done!



Cainebj said:


> I thought the last 5 minutes was gut wrenching.


:up: Nicely worded!



Maui said:


> Of course the main question is how does a walker sneak up on Dale in the middle of an open field? Not only that, but he snuck up on him from the same direction Dale had just came from so how in the world does that happen? Was the walker somehow hiding? They ain't that smart.
> 
> And did I miss something? How does a walker open up a mans gut with one hand? It does not seem like that would be an easy thing to do.


THis is what I came here to ask as well.

Maybe the walker had to take a break from his steak tartar to "use the facilities", only to return to find that dessert had arrived.

If walkers are consuming people, then they must have a working digestive system, right?


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Do they really digest anything? that gopher or whatever that 'boondocks saints' pulled out looked pretty much intact. I was under the impression that it was just a primal urge or something based on their conversations with the CDC dude.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

Necromancer2006 said:


> response:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



At this point, you could almost argue that this is an almost entirely different storyline / alt-universe, using some of the characters from the comics :

T-bone / Tyrese
Shane alive/dead
Dale alive/dead
Otis alive/dead
Daryl is TV only
Trip to the CDC
...and so on...


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

SeanC said:


> He investigates a cow in the field, sees it's guts ripped out, and he doesn't immediately check his back to see if there are zombies behind him?


Uh... that what's he did. He saw the cow, and immediately turned around and checked his surroundings, and saw the walker right behind him.

Now, how the walker snuck up on him, I don't know.


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

A few days ago I noticed on MSNBC there was a story about a MAJOR character being killed off the show. I did not read it. Does anyone know if the person mentioned in that article is Dale? I don't want to know WHO the article mentions UNLESS it is dale.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

NatasNJ said:


> A few days ago I noticed on MSNBC


If someone answers this, please spoil it, I don't want to know


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Now, how the walker snuck up on him, I don't know.


That is the million dollar question since I think they also had an establishing shot showing him walking across the field where you could clearly see the background behind him and it was completely empty.

Must have been a ninja walker.


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## Sacrilegium (Dec 14, 2006)

Maybe it was Walker, Texas Ranger


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Maui said:


> Of course the main question is how does a walker sneak up on Dale in the middle of an open field? Not only that, but he snuck up on him from the same direction Dale had just came from so how in the world does that happen? Was the walker somehow hiding? They ain't that smart.
> 
> And did I miss something? How does a walker open up a mans gut with one hand? It does not seem like that would be an easy thing to do.


Agreed that the walkers are not smart enough to lay in wait and ambush someone, but that's just TV suspense. It wouldn't have had the same impact if Dale had just come up on the walker feasting on the cow.

As for the walker ripping him open, Dale was trying to hold off the walker's face while the walker was trying to bite him. Dale wasn't doing anything to keep the walker's hands away. However, I think that's the first time we've seen a walker kill a person in a manner other than by biting. That might have interesting ramifications.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

NatasNJ said:


> A few days ago I noticed on MSNBC there was a story about a MAJOR character being killed off the show. I did not read it. Does anyone know if the person mentioned in that article is Dale? I don't want to know WHO the article mentions UNLESS it is dale.





Spoiler



I saw the article. It doesn't reference Dale. It also didn't say that someone was being killed -- the actor/actress in question was cast in an upcoming pilot, which may or may not be greenlit into a series. That's all.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Maui said:


> That is the million dollar question since I think they also had an establishing shot showing him walking across the field where you could clearly see the background behind him and it was completely empty.
> 
> Must have been a ninja walker.


Without rewatching it, here's my attempt at making it plausible.

I don't think Dale was walking directly at the cow when he heard the noise. He may well have been well past (on a linear basis) the cow when he heard it moan, so he had to backtrack to it over to one side. The walker, meanwhile, has noticed the lights on in the house in the distance, and is shambling that way. Dale goes over to the cow, and in doing so, gets between the cow and the house (and the shambling walker). The walker hears Dale, and turns around and heads for him.

/shrugs


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> This is the most unlikable group of people I've ever seen on a TV show. With the exception of Glen, I hate all of them.


That's a good thing. Having a bunch of well adjusted strangers getting along great under the circumstances wouldn't be realistic at all. Of course neither are Zombies but still...


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## EvilMidniteBombr (May 25, 2006)

I must say that I'm not entirely sad to see Dale die. He was really getting on my nerves. Still, he was the moral pillar of the show. I wonder now that he is gone, will Rick take on more of Dale's role or does the group become more savage now? 

We know that at least part of the group Randall was with is more criminal than our group. They were the ones that tried to shoot Rick, Glenn and Hershel in the bar. The rest of that group opened fire blindly. So what would you do with Randall? Kill him? Keep him shackled and/or confined? Use him for hard labor? Let him join the group? Let him go? If you let him go, do you abandon the farm in the fear that the larger (and more violent) group may try to "invade"? I might have considered putting him in a small row boat, blindfolded and bound, and floated him down the nearest river. That may be the best way to let him live and not know how to get back to the farm. Then again, he would know what town he was from and could find the farm eventually. Not an easy decision at all.


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## MLR930 (Dec 26, 2002)

Anyone else sick of the way they keep introducing this show with that deep voice it's supposed to scare me also we know it's on AMC you don't have to keep reminding us


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Maui said:


> That is the million dollar question since I think they also had an establishing shot showing him walking across the field where you could clearly see the background behind him and it was completely empty.
> 
> Must have been a ninja walker.


I'm going to guess that the cow was moaning loud enough that the sounds of the approaching walker were masked. And it was night, in a country field - pretty dark out there, so quite possible that Dale could have passed close by and not even seen the walker if his light wasn't directed at it. But the walker saw him pass by, and returned back to the cow it had left shortly before. Why it left the cow while there was still some left is a good question, though. I could understand it moving on once sated, but if it was sated then it shouldn't have been interested in Dale.

Okay, how about this - we didn't see it, but there was a second cow (on the grassy knoll). Walker attacked Cow 1, then got distracted by Cow 2 and went off to attack Cow 2. Dale then finds Cow 1. Walker hears Dale and gets distracted from Cow 2, heads back to Dale at Cow 1. Dale doesn't hear walker approach. Dale is what's for dinner.

The bottom line is it was a pivotal scene - more attention should have been paid to the way it was shot. As an audience, these are not the questions we're supposed to be left with. I blame the director.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

DreadPirateRob said:


> Now, how the walker snuck up on him, I don't know.


Dale should have bought that Sonic Hearing commercial hearing aid.

Carl was a little jerk the whole episode. I thought he was going to end up killing someone, mainly because he's a stupid kid.

Why in tarnation were they going to first hang the guy and then shoot him in the barn? Why not drive a mile or two down the road, shoot him and dump him in a roadside ditch? Why would you murder someone on your own property?

T-Dog wouldn't even rate a red shirt if this were Star Trek. I wish he'd keep a diary and they'd post his daily exploits on the AMC Walking Dead website.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Carl was a little jerk the whole episode. I thought he was going to end up killing someone, mainly because he's a stupid kid.


Well, he indirectly did wind up causing Dale's death. (But let's not get into a proximate cause debate here).

He may also yet cause Daryl's death too. He took Daryl's gun from the motorcycle saddlebag and lost it in Dagobah. I don't think he owned up to Daryl about it, so Daryl still thinks the gun is there. If he's in a pinch in a future episode and goes for it, he's going to have an unpleasant surprise when he comes up empty.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

danterner said:


> Well, he indirectly did wind up causing Dale's death. (But let's not get into a proximate cause debate here).
> 
> He may also yet cause Daryl's death too. He took Daryl's gun from the motorcycle saddlebag and lost it in Degobah. I don't think he owned up to Daryl about it, so Daryl still thinks the gun is there. If he's in a pinch in a future and goes for it, he's going to have an unpleasant surprise when he comes up empty.


That gun (or lack thereof) will absolutly come back into play. Otherwise it was kinda a pointless scene.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

One thing that keeps nagging at me is why these people see Rick as the leader of this group? Seems like Shane was the leader for weeks before Rick arrived. This show keeps trying to insist that Rick is somehow akin to Jack Shepard on Lost.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

aadam101 said:


> ...This is the most unlikable group of people I've ever seen on a TV show. With the exception of Glen, I hate all of them.


 Then why watch?


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> We know that at least part of the group Randall was with is more criminal than our group.


I disagree. Randall's group made some veiled threats. Rick killed them for it. I think Rick is much more of a "criminal".


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> Then why watch?


I'm in that same group. These people are all miserable bastards. I'm holding out hope that at least some of them become better/smarter/deader people sometime soon.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

If they were all nice/agreeable/intelligent/cooperative/proficient, it wouldn't be a very interesting show. I watch because of the dysfunction, not in spite of it.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

aadam101 said:


> I disagree. Randall's group made some veiled threats. Rick killed them for it. I think Rick is much more of a "criminal".


Did you miss the part where Randall told Daryl that while out on a scavenger run, part of his group had come across a dad with two teen-aged daughters, and decided to rape a couple of teenaged girls while making their dad watch?

And you also conveniently ignored that the guys in the bar drew on Rick first - he was just faster to get to his gun and pulled the trigger.


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Maui said:


> Of course the main question is how does a walker sneak up on Dale in the middle of an open field? Not only that, but he snuck up on him from the same direction Dale had just came from so how in the world does that happen? Was the walker somehow hiding? They ain't that smart.
> 
> And did I miss something? How does a walker open up a mans gut with one hand? It does not seem like that would be an easy thing to do.


Good point, and we know that walkers are slow and not stronger than humans.


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

No way a single Walker is going to eat a whole cow! I can't stand the boy Carl, he is creepy like one of "The Children Of The Corn" The sooner a Walker makes a snack of him the better. I would side with Shane rather than Rick. Shane is trying to survive, not hang on to vestiges of the former world. He is very much in touch with the reality of things. Rick and his wife should leave the group as soon as their kid gets eaten.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

EvilMidniteBombr said:


> I must say that I'm not entirely sad to see Dale die. He was really getting on my nerves. Still, he was the moral pillar of the show. I wonder now that he is gone, will Rick take on more of Dale's role or does the group become more savage now?
> 
> We know that at least part of the group Randall was with is more criminal than our group. They were the ones that tried to shoot Rick, Glenn and Hershel in the bar. The rest of that group opened fire blindly. So what would you do with Randall? Kill him? Keep him shackled and/or confined? Use him for hard labor? Let him join the group? Let him go? If you let him go, do you abandon the farm in the fear that the larger (and more violent) group may try to "invade"? I might have considered putting him in a small row boat, blindfolded and bound, and floated him down the nearest river. That may be the best way to let him live and not know how to get back to the farm. *Then again, he would know what town he was from and could find the farm eventually.* Not an easy decision at all.


This is the most important point. Randall is from the area and knows where the farm is. There's nowhere they could leave him that he wouldn't be able to find his way back to the farm. Unless all of Rick's group and all of Herschel's family are planning to abandon the farm, letting Randall free has the potential to bring danger to all of them.


danterner said:


> The bottom line is it was a pivotal scene - more attention should have been paid to the way it was shot. As an audience, these are not the questions we're supposed to be left with. *I blame the director.*


The episode was directed by Greg Nicotero, who is the chief make up/special effects guy for the series. I believe this was his first time directing.


robojerk said:


> One thing that keeps nagging at me is why these people see Rick as the leader of this group? Seems like Shane was the leader for weeks before Rick arrived. This show keeps trying to insist that Rick is somehow akin to Jack Shepard on Lost.


That's a very good question. It's not like everyone just has a sense of Rick's leadership - it's been affirmatively acknowledged by many. I don't understand how all these people, who were surviving together before Rick appeared, suddenly defer to him just because he shows up in a sheriff's uniform.

And speaking of his uniform, does it bother anyone else that the hat fits Carl so well? There's no way that Rick's hat would just suddenly fit Carl like a glove. That bothers me every time I see Carl wearing it.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Rick is a Sheriff and Shane is a Deputy?

I'm not sure why they haven't gone and done "raiding parties" on the other nearby farms. Or is that generally assumed that they've done it already?


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

VegasVic said:


> That's a good thing. Having a bunch of well adjusted strangers getting along great under the circumstances wouldn't be realistic at all. Of course neither are Zombies but still...


I don't want them to be well adjusted. I just want to like them. I don't care if any of them get killed. There are several (Lori) who I REALLY want to see get eaten in the worst way possible. I want to "love to hate them". I just hate them.

Revenge does a really good job of creating characters that you "love to hate." I wish Walking Dead could do this.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

jgmack1 said:


> No way a single Walker is going to eat a whole cow! I can't stand the boy Carl, he is creepy like one of "The Children Of The Corn" The sooner a Walker makes a snack of him the better. I would side with Shane rather than Rick. Shane is trying to survive, not hang on to vestiges of the former world. He is very much in touch with the reality of things. Rick and his wife should leave the group as soon as their kid gets eaten.


So what happens when the walker is "full". He just ate a sizeable portion of a cow and he still attacked Dale.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> So what happens when the walker is "full". He just ate a sizeable portion of a cow and he still attacked Dale.


He just rips out his guts 

Maybe he didn't even eat the cow, just killed it.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> That's a very good question. It's not like everyone just has a sense of Rick's leadership - it's been affirmatively acknowledged by many. I don't understand how all these people, who were surviving together before Rick appeared, suddenly defer to him just because he shows up in a sheriff's uniform.


I think it's only natural that you would look to the law enforcement person to be the "leader", at least initially. Rick is an authority figure in their old world. I think the more they realize that the old world rules no longer apply, they may start looking for a new leader.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aadam101 said:


> I think it's only natural that you would look to the law enforcement person to be the "leader", at least initially. Rick is an authority figure in their old world. I think the more they realize that the old world rules no longer apply, they may start looking for a new leader.


But Shane was law enforcement too. Why would Rick just automatically usurp the leadership position from Shane? Once Shane killed Otis and started acting all menacing, at that point, it kind of makes sense, but these people were treating Rick as their leader even before that.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'd be on Team Rick if I were part of the group. At least he still has some humanity left. Shane would be the much better leader if this were combat and everybody were soldiers but these people aren't. Plus, Shane seems like the type of leader that would eventually claim all the womenfolk as his wives and make the less manly men call him "O Great Protector" or something like that.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Rick is a Sheriff and Shane is a Deputy?


IIRC, they are both sheriff's deputies.

Carl is the worst. He might have jumped to the top of my list of characters I'd most like to see die. I think the fact that the kid is a terrible actor doesn't help at all. He's perfectly fine when he is standing in the background doing nothing, but this episode required some range and he's got zilch. I hope they recast him for next season.

I agree they could have handled the Dale death better. Even something as simple as Dale came up on the cow and zombie, started back-pedaling, tripped, and that was enough time for the zombie to grab onto him. Zombies are not stealthy, it just didn't make a lot of sense how that went down.

Thank goodness they did not kill Randall. I'm totally on Dale's side on this one. The lines may be a lot greyer, or a wider area of grey, but an execution over a possible threat that may never come to pass is completely losing their humanity. I don't know that I have a better option than any of them, but killing him isn't the answer.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Zevida said:


> Thank goodness they did not kill Randall. I'm totally on Dale's side on this one. The lines may be a lot greyer, or a wider area of grey, but an execution over a possible threat that may never come to pass is completely losing their humanity. I don't know that I have a better option than any of them, but killing him isn't the answer.


I don't want them to kill Randall, but what do you do with Randall? He knows the area, our group of survivors do not trust him, even before that drawn out almost execution scene, the way they've treated Randall equates to Randall not trusting this group. At this point their only options are to keep him prisoner for a long time, which means guarding him 24x7, or execute him. I'm not cheering for them to do so, but the survival of the group is at stake. Randall could bring a group that can out number, and out gun them. _Winter is coming_... At the least the other group will want the supplies on the farm.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Zevida said:


> IIRC, they are both sheriff's deputies.
> 
> Carl is the worst. He might have jumped to the top of my list of characters I'd most like to see die. I think the fact that the kid is a terrible actor doesn't help at all. He's perfectly fine when he is standing in the background doing nothing, but this episode required some range and he's got zilch. I hope they recast him for next season.


I'm wondering how they are going to handle his aging. He aged quite a bit from season 1 to season 2 but only a few weeks has gone by in walker world. He is going to look ridiculous at 16 and still playing a 10 year old.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

robojerk said:


> I don't want them to kill Randall, but what do you do with Randall? He knows the area, our group of survivors do not trust him, even before that drawn out almost execution scene, the way they've treated Randall equates to Randall not trusting this group. At this point their only options are to keep him prisoner for a long time, which means guarding him 24x7, or execute him. I'm not cheering for them to do so, but the survival of the group is at stake. Randall could bring a group that can out number, and out gun them. _Winter is coming_... At the least the other group will want the supplies on the farm.


Feed him to the Walkers.

Leave him someplace there is no way to escape from and turn and walk away.

They did it to Daryl's brother on the roof of the building.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

Zevida said:


> Thank goodness they did not kill Randall. I'm totally on Dale's side on this one. The lines may be a lot greyer, or a wider area of grey, but an execution over a possible threat that may never come to pass is completely losing their humanity. I don't know that I have a better option than any of them, but killing him isn't the answer.


Attempted murder x3. Given the new world conditions, I'd say that makes things a little less grey in my book.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

danterner said:


> Well, he indirectly did wind up causing Dale's death. (But let's not get into a proximate cause debate here).
> 
> He may also yet cause Daryl's death too. He took Daryl's gun from the motorcycle saddlebag and lost it in Dagobah. I don't think he owned up to Daryl about it, so Daryl still thinks the gun is there. If he's in a pinch in a future episode and goes for it, he's going to have an unpleasant surprise when he comes up empty.





MikeMar said:


> That gun (or lack thereof) will absolutly come back into play.  Otherwise it was kinda a pointless scene.


I wondered why that wasn't addressed and if it will come back.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

No one commented on the fact that Shane is hoarding ammo? There was one scene in the RV where whatshername asks where the ammo bag is, Dale pulls it out, and then she comments on how little there is left. Later in the episode we get a shot of Shane stashing ammo in the spare tire compartment of his car. Something's up...

Regarding the cow and the zombie sneaking up on Dale... it didn't bother me too much. I assumed that the zombie was off in the weeds munching on some cow guts when Dale walked up. Dale was fixated on the cow and didn't see MR. Zombie in the brush.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jradosh said:


> No one commented on the fact that Shane is hoarding ammo? There was one scene in the RV where whatshername asks where the ammo bag is, Dale pulls it out, and then she comments on how little there is left. Later in the episode we get a shot of Shane stashing ammo in the spare tire compartment of his car. Something's up...


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Shane is definitely planning to have the supplies to take care of himself even after the group runs out. He'll claim he went and scavenged the supplies from somewhere and he'll use them to get leverage over the group.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Once they tortured Randall, they have no choice but to kill him. There just is no coming back from that.

WHY WASN'T THE FACT THAT RANDALL SAID HE WENT TO SCHOOL WITH MAGGIE NEVER ADDRESSED. C'MON. THAT WAS A HUGE PLOT POINT LAST WEEK!!!!


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> Attempted murder x3. Given the new world conditions, I'd say that makes things a little less grey in my book.


I'm opposed to the death penalty. 

If this is war, you don't get to execute captured enemy soldiers either.

I just can't buy that the only answer is to execute. They thought about it for one night. That's not enough time to attempt and exhaust all alternate options.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

betts4 said:


> They did it to Daryl's brother on the roof of the building.


Speaking of that guy...who thinks the other group has a member with only one hand?



jradosh said:


> No one commented on the fact that Shane is hoarding ammo? There was one scene in the RV where whatshername asks where the ammo bag is, Dale pulls it out, and then she comments on how little there is left. Later in the episode we get a shot of Shane stashing ammo in the spare tire compartment of his car. Something's up...


Didn't Shane say to the blonde that he was working on the guns/ammo situation? Maybe that's what he meant? I remember it happening outside of the "prison" shack, while Carl was stalking Randall.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Hi ALL,

A very good episode! When they were getting ready to kill the kid my heart was racing a little as I was wondering whether they were going to do it or not. Dale getting killed was a surprise to me and I was disappointed that Rick wimped out in putting Dale out of his misery.

One thing did bother me. Here we have a group of people (Rick's group, not the original farm house people) who have survived for a while and should know about the dangers of the walkers. So we have Dale who is pissed off about the decision to kill the kid so he wants to be alone and away from the group. So he takes a walk out in to the field at night! Yes, there's a fence around the property but even if it was in perfect condition there is no guarantee that a stray walker or two could get into the property. I would think at night NO ONE would want to go very far from the farm house or the tent area. This struck me as quite dumb and Dale paid the ultimate price for it!

Gerry


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

aadam101 said:


> So what happens when the walker is "full". He just ate a sizeable portion of a cow and he still attacked Dale.


]

Maybe people taste better than cows. More than likely a Walker will attack and try to kill a human every chance it gets whether it's hungry or not. Walkers are strangely unreasonable.


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Gerryex said:


> Hi ALL,
> 
> A very good episode! When they were getting ready to kill the kid my heart was racing a little as I was wondering whether they were going to do it or not. Dale getting killed was a surprise to me and I was disappointed that Rick wimped out in putting Dale out of his misery.
> 
> ...


You would have to be out of your mind to wander off alone like that. Those people should be a lot more afraid than they are. Same goes for the annoying kid, not being watched and allowed to wander off into the woods.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I really wanted Rick to say "why the F don't you ever watch our son!?!"


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

jgmack1 said:


> You would have to be out of your mind to wander off alone like that. Those people should be a lot more afraid than they are. Same goes for the annoying kid, not being watched and allowed to wander off into the woods.


I was thinking the same thing. If Dale heard a noise, a group of them show go and investigate. Nobody should be going anywhere by themselves. I cant understand why nobody is ever watching Carl. He seems to by himself all the freaking time!

This may be the worst group of survivors ever. I'm going to start rooting for Randall's crew!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I really wanted Rick to say "why the F don't you ever watch our son!?!"


Of course, the last time he watched him, the kid got shot.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Zevida said:


> I'm opposed to the death penalty.
> 
> If this is war, you don't get to execute captured enemy soldiers either.
> 
> I just can't buy that the only answer is to execute. They thought about it for one night. That's not enough time to attempt and exhaust all alternate options.


If there was any remnant of a lawful society left I would agree with you. However, unless you can come up with a solution that doesn't put others at risk, solves the issue that no one trusts this guy who shot at 3 of your own group, and the fact that he probably doesn't trust you after Shane almost killed him and Daryl beating info out of him. What do you do. It's a lot of energy to keep someone detained against their will, resources are thin, I don't think anyone wants to make that commitment.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

MLR930 said:


> Anyone else sick of the way they keep introducing this show with that deep voice it's supposed to scare me also we know it's on AMC you don't have to keep reminding us


I love that voice! It introduces Mad Men too. Actually if you watch it on DVD you might not be aware of what it was on unless they tell you.

Crazy that they're wandering around in the dark when there have always been stray walkers. And the kid is obviously not old enough to be left on his own. He disobeys every time, and they still just tell him to go here or there like they expect him to do it.

I hated that after going through the whole range of possibilities on what to do with the kid if you don't kill him, when it was all settled, then the stupid blond says she thinks they need to come up with another plan. duh. 

Funny that they are finally considering that they could run short of ammo and that food might be short this winter. Duh, again. (winter is coming....I'm excited--oh, wrong show)

I kept thinking that whoever ended up dying would come back as a zombie, but then they seem to always kill them with a gunshot to the head. I guess that's the best way to do it regardless, or is Rick doing it that way on purpose?


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Ding ding ding on the Merle-as-part-of-the-gang-of-30 speculation. Seems like just the kind of cliffhanger they'd go for in the season finale.

As for zombified cows, on Talking Dead Kirkman addressed this when asked by a viewer:


Spoiler



No non-human walkers


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

MacThor said:


> Ding ding ding on the Merle-as-part-of-the-gang-of-30 speculation. Seems like just the kind of cliffhanger they'd go for in the season finale.


I thought this as well and was/am so convinced it's fact that I fully expected Rick to back out of killing the kid. Somehow these two groups are going to come face to face for the season cliff hanger. What better than to have Merle be over there.

I must be among the uncivilized because I would not only have left that kid back at the bar after he shot at me but I'd definitely be siding with the execution. This is no longer the world they lived in. Same rules do not apply. Shane is right and Rick knew it. He just didn't have the guts to do it in front of his kid. I get that. I do not get however, the fact that he was the one to man up and shoot Sophia but couldn't do the deed with Dale. No. I call BS.

Only 2 eps left and I'm excited for next week!


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

I have a feeling that this gang of 30 behaves much more like you'd expect from people in this situation, than Rick's group does.


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## DBDvl (Apr 24, 2008)

Anyone else notice that Carl ran away from the Walker AWAY from the direction he 1st came upon him ? He had to cross the stream to play keep away and lose the gun and then ran up that bank when the walker came loose from the mud. This would have put him on the other side of the creek where both he and the walker would have had to cross back again to kill the cow and poor Dale.

I know, a small thing but one we noticed right away and questioned.

Right, wrong or who cares ?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

DBDvl said:


> Anyone else notice that Carl ran away from the Walker AWAY from the direction he 1st came upon him ? He had to cross the stream to play keep away and lose the gun and then ran up that bank when the walker came loose from the mud. This would have put him on the other side of the creek where both he and the walker would have had to cross back again to kill the cow and poor Dale.
> 
> I know, a small thing but one we noticed right away and questioned.
> 
> Right, wrong or who cares ?


Correct, but....who cares? He could have doubled back when he got his wits about him...


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

Gerryex said:


> Hi ALL,
> 
> A very good episode! When they were getting ready to kill the kid my heart was racing a little as I was wondering whether they were going to do it or not. Dale getting killed was a surprise to me and I was disappointed that Rick wimped out in putting Dale out of his misery.
> 
> ...


Didn't Hershel tell Dale that the *fence was broken and a few cows got our earlier in the day* when Dale was trying to get Hershel's support. As my father would say to me "attention to detail" when ever I would not notice something and mess up. Needless to say it would piss me off when he would say that, now I say that to my kids,lol


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I think the difference between Rick being able to shoot Sophia and not shoot Dale is because Sophia was already a zombie and dale was still "alive". That's a pretty big difference and I could see why it would be a lot harder.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MacThor said:


> Ding ding ding on the Merle-as-part-of-the-gang-of-30 speculation. Seems like just the kind of cliffhanger they'd go for in the season finale.


Maybe then T-Dog will reveal his true identity as a Shaft/Blade hybrid, zombie killin, bad guy killin', lady killer, ass kickin' killing machine with his own theme music.

Probably not.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

And am I the only one here p*ssed/dissapointed that they never even addressed the "I went to school with Maggie" issue? That was such a HUGE plot point...how can it just be totally ignored?!?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pmyers said:


> And am I the only one here p*ssed/dissapointed that they never even addressed the "I went to school with Maggie" issue? That was such a HUGE plot point...how can it just be totally ignored?!?


I think it just establishes that he knows WHERE the farm is regardless, so it's harder to let him go, no matter where they drop him off.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> I think it just establishes that he knows WHERE the farm is regardless, so it's harder to let him go, no matter where they drop him off.


To me, if he was proven to be speaking the truth, it would go along way in cementing him as just a good ol local boy who got mixed up when sh*t hit the fan and not some bad guy like they are treating him. It would also make it that much MORE difficult to now just kill him.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

pmyers said:


> And am I the only one here p*ssed/dissapointed that they never even addressed the "I went to school with Maggie" issue? That was such a HUGE plot point...how can it just be totally ignored?!?


I'm not pissed but I am puzzled by it. And it does make me wonder if Hershel or Maggie were told off screen and that's why they both agreed with him dying. And if neither of them were told, would it have changed their stance on that?


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

pmyers said:


> To me, if he was proven to be speaking the truth, it would go along way in cementing him as just a good ol local boy who got mixed up when sh*t hit the fan and not some bad guy like they are treating him. It would also make it that much MORE difficult to now just kill him.


I agree. And if he was telling the truth and went to school with her, he might only think she doesn't know him. Once that's brought to her attention she might look at his face and recognize him and be able to give them some kind of insight on who he was before all this went down. <shrug> Yeah, thanks, now it's going to bug me to death the more I mull this over.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

ihatecable said:


> Didn't Hershel tell Dale that the *fence was broken and a few cows got our earlier in the day* when Dale was trying to get Hershel's support. As my father would say to me "attention to detail" when ever I would not notice something and mess up. Needless to say it would piss me off when he would say that, now I say that to my kids,lol


Yes, I remember that conversation taking place.



pmyers said:


> And am I the only one here p*ssed/dissapointed that they never even addressed the "I went to school with Maggie" issue? That was such a HUGE plot point...how can it just be totally ignored?!?


I would have expected Maggie to speak up when everyone was voting and say something like "He was always a dbag in school" or "I don't ever remember him getting in trouble in school" or "he says he knows me from school, but I don't know him".


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

markz said:


> ...I would have expected Maggie to speak up when everyone was voting and say something like "He was always a dbag in school" or "I don't ever remember him getting in trouble in school" or "he says he knows me from school, but I don't know him".


but we don't even know that Rick/Shane told Maggie or Herschel what he said. The entire thing was "dropped" from us.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> but we don't even know that Rick/Shane told Maggie or Herschel what he said. The entire thing was "dropped" from us.


Yes, it would have been nice to see Herschel and Maggie's reactions to that news, but we can assume Maggie and Herschel were told. Otherwise, the obvious solution would be to go leave him somewhere far away where he could never find his way back to the farm. It's only because he knows the area and could find his way back to the farm that execution was even an option.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

if she didn't know him in school, what difference should it make to her? He's like any other outsider. Seems irrelevant to me, so I'm not concerned they didn't address it.

If on the other hand they were lab partners or in homeroom together or something, I could see that creating a compelling discussion.


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## Mr. Merkin (May 6, 2005)

aadam101 said:


> There are several (Lori) who I REALLY want to see get eaten in the worst way possible..


Don't be such a perv!


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

Gerryex said:


> ...So he takes a walk out in to the field at night! ... This struck me as quite dumb and Dale paid the ultimate price for it!


Add in that Carl did pretty much the exact same thing...

And Lori, going off by herself in the car...

If the group is to survive they need to be MUCH more paranoid about going off alone.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

pmyers said:


> And am I the only one here p*ssed/dissapointed that they never even addressed the "I went to school with Maggie" issue? That was such a HUGE plot point...how can it just be totally ignored?!?


This never crossed my mind and doesn't bother me at all. Were you expecting it to turn into an intense interrogation of some kind? It doesn't matter if he is telling the truth about how much he knows, all that matters is that he knows where the farm is. It was addressed heavily last week and was the entire reason Shane and Rick got into the fight.



voripteth said:


> Add in that Carl did pretty much the exact same thing...
> 
> And Lori, going off by herself in the car...
> 
> If the group is to survive they need to be MUCH more paranoid about going off alone.


They've clearly become way too comfortable on the farm, from Carl getting no supervision to people going off on their own without back-up or telling anyone. Obviously even one walker that surprises you is enough to kill you. Hopefully this will be a wake-up call.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Hopefully they will stock up and get moving


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

pmyers said:


> And am I the only one here p*ssed/dissapointed that they never even addressed the "I went to school with Maggie" issue? That was such a HUGE plot point...how can it just be totally ignored?!?


It doesn't matter if he knew Maggie. They suspect his allegiance is with the other group. Being a local, being "swept up" with that group, any of that is totally irrelevant. Our group thinks he'll pick the other group over them.


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## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

Will Carl ever tell that Randall offered to take him to his group?
That's pretty damning evidence against Randall.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

voripteth said:


> Will Carl ever tell that Randall offered to take him to his group?
> That's pretty damning evidence against Randall.


Maybe...maybe not. I believe that was just a ruse to get Carl to free him. He had no intention of taking Carl to his group. It may indicate where Randall's allegiance is, but I still think it was just to save his ass...


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

voripteth said:


> Add in that Carl did pretty much the exact same thing...
> 
> And Lori, going off by herself in the car...
> 
> If the group is to survive they need to be MUCH more paranoid about going off alone.


Yes, that was my point. And yes, I do enjoy this show quite a bit, but yes, they are pretty dumb about their own safety and going off alone all the time. In fact, under these circumstances NO ONE SHOULD EVER GO ALONE ANYWHERE OR ANY TIME!!!

Gerry


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Zevida said:


> This never crossed my mind and doesn't bother me at all. Were you expecting it to turn into an intense interrogation of some kind? It doesn't matter if he is telling the truth about how much he knows, all that matters is that he knows where the farm is. It was addressed heavily last week and was the entire reason Shane and Rick got into the fight...


To me, it makes a huge difference if he was telling the truth or not. If he was lying, then there is no reason to believe he knows where the farm is and if he's telling the truth then I'd sure want to know what, if any, relationship there is with maggie/herschel. It would also make it a lot harder to kill somebody that you went to school with (at least for me) which is what the entire last 2 episodes have been about.

Not to mention that it was the entire turning point of that episode, so to totally abandon that just seems strange.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> Hopefully they will stock up and get moving


Yes, assuming they heard the story about the rapes, the automatic weapons, and the 30 men as well as women and children, they are not safe whether they let the kid go or not. They weren't that far from town and those are not nice people. They will find them sooner or later. I didn't get why the torturing couldn't get them a location on the other guys camp or whatever. Just so they know to go in the opposite direction.

Plus I never want to see that farm again.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

pmyers said:


> ...It would also make it a lot harder to kill somebody that you went to school with ....


There are a LOT of people I went to school with I would like to off....


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Maybe then T-Dog will reveal his true identity as a Shaft/Blade hybrid, zombie killin, bad guy killin', lady killer, ass kickin' killing machine with his own theme music.
> 
> Probably not.


Also Known As...

(comics spoiler)



Spoiler



Tyrese


?


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

voripteth said:


> Add in that Carl did pretty much the exact same thing...
> 
> And Lori, going off by herself in the car...
> 
> If the group is to survive they need to be MUCH more paranoid about going off alone.


They've gotten quite complacent on the farm.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I agree that the only way these people get off the farm is by a West Side Story fight between the 2 groups.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I agree that the only way these people get off the farm is by a West Side Story fight between the 2 groups.


Ooooooooo......
A Walking Dead, Smash crossover!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> To me, it makes a huge difference if he was telling the truth or not. If he was lying, then there is no reason to believe he knows where the farm is and if he's telling the truth then I'd sure want to know what, if any, relationship there is with maggie/herschel. It would also make it a lot harder to kill somebody that you went to school with (at least for me) which is what the entire last 2 episodes have been about.
> 
> Not to mention that it was the entire turning point of that episode, so to totally abandon that just seems strange.


I don't think they abandoned it. The fact that Rick and Shane didn't abandon Randall at that facility in "18 Miles Out" means they accepted it as true. It's the whole reason they were debating whether to kill him in this episode. If there were still any question about whether it was true, then abandoning him far away would still be an option. That it's not should tell you that Maggie and/or Herschel corroborated the story, and the fact that they're on board with killing him shows that they recognize the threat he represents.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I agree that the only way these people get off the farm is by a West Side Story fight between the 2 groups.


With lots of snapping fingers and nifty footwork?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I thought he said when it was brought up that he knew her from school but she didn't know him? Which I took to mean she was a few grades before him or something.
I don't think the implication was they were buddies.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

pmyers said:


> I agree that the only way these people get off the farm is by a West Side Story fight between the 2 groups.


"Sophia... I just killed a girl named Sophia..."


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> With lots of snapping fingers and nifty footwork?


and a switchblade!


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

pmyers said:


> but we don't even know that Rick/Shane told Maggie or Herschel what he said. The entire thing was "dropped" from us.


I don't think it was dropped. The only reason that they went with that plot point, that he went to school with Maggie, was to get us this episode.

Otherwise they would have released him 18 miles away, and would have been done with him.

I don't think what he was like in high school is relevant to current post walker times.

Or at least it's not relevant enough for them to risk all their lives based on what Maggie's perception of him in high school was.

-smak-


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> With lots of snapping fingers and nifty footwork?


And the Thriller zombies!

It's time to get off the farm, but I don't see Herschel's crowd joining the travelers. So it's hard to see the showdown with the 30 happening at the farm, unless it just happens that most of Herschel's group are killed.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Maybe Shane will realize that Carl's stupidity will drag the group down and the best option is to cull him.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

I am basing this totally on my opinion, as I have not read the comics.

I bet since there are only two episodes left, that they will not leave the farm this season. If anything, maybe that will be the cliff hanger, with them heading out in the final scene of the season.

It seems to late in the season for them to make a big change in location to me.

Of course I could be wrong.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

That seems totally reasonable actually. I could see the season finale involving the farm being overrun either by walkers or the rival group nearby. Probably the latter. Perhaps it turns into a battle for the farm, or something.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

But would it be smart for the group of 30 to try and overrun the farm?

So let's say Randall escapes or hooks back up with his group and tells them about our hereos....would a fight be in anybody's best interests or do you just let it go?

Supplies don't seem to be that big of an issue and you know you are going to get people killed...is it worth it?


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Dunno...the guys they ran across at the bar seemed VERY interested in joining up with them and discovering their camp...probably for nefarious purposes. I'd expect the rivals to at least come back and scout the farm out...try to raid supplies and or just take over and wreak havoc.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, the farm has stuff and women, which seem to be two things that Randall's folk are interested in.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

pmyers said:


> But would it be smart for the group of 30 to try and overrun the farm?
> 
> So let's say Randall escapes or hooks back up with his group and tells them about our hereos....would a fight be in anybody's best interests or do you just let it go?
> 
> Supplies don't seem to be that big of an issue and you know you are going to get people killed...is it worth it?


Yes, the farm is something a group of 30 barbarians would want to overrun. It has a generator, wind power, vegetables being grown, running water, shelter, tools, vehicles, more women to rape, chickens and cows, a defensible geography, weapons, etc. And this group has no chance against a vicious group of 30.

That's why Randal is such a liability if he contacts his group.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, the farm has stuff and women, which seem to be two things that Randall's folk are interested in.


So then your vision of this group is 30 guys? Not just a larger group of our heros with women/children?

It will be interesting to find out.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

pmyers said:


> So then your vision of this group is 30 guys? Not just a larger group of our heros with women/children?
> 
> It will be interesting to find out.


Pmyers, you sound like a really nice guy who sees only the best in people.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

pmyers said:


> So then your vision of this group is 30 guys? Not just a larger group of our heros with women/children?
> 
> It will be interesting to find out.


Outside of Shane, and sometimes, the little ******* brother (can't remember his name), our group of heroes seem to be a bit more trusting and friendly and happy-go-lucky than I would expect in such a world. I would think most survivors would be extremely paranoid, shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later.

While I doubt most people would go looking for trouble, I think they would be more militant than our group. I wouldn't go looking for trouble, after all, think how easy it would be to die from a minor wound or accident, with no health care available. That said, until the zombies have died out and more law and order has been restored, I'd be looking out for myself first, second, and third.

But then, this is a tv show about people dealing with the zombie apocalypse, not a military kill-all


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pmyers said:


> So then your vision of this group is 30 guys? Not just a larger group of our heros with women/children?


By Randall's admission, when they find women they rape them to death.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

tiams said:


> Yes, the farm is something a group of 30 barbarians would want to overrun. It has a generator, wind power, vegetables being grown, running water, shelter, tools, vehicles, more women to rape, chickens and cows, a defensible geography, weapons, etc. And this group has no chance against a vicious group of 30.


And very importantly it has a doctor in Hershel. They could just keep him captive patching up their wounded.



tiams said:


> That's why Randal is such a liability if he contacts his group.


Which is why I'd just shoot him and be done with it.



pmyers said:


> So then your vision of this group is 30 guys? Not just a larger group of our heros with women/children?
> 
> It will be interesting to find out.


Even if this group is similar to our group, just having a handful that are raping women and willing to shoot strangers in a bar is enough for me to know they aren't going to want to make friends.



tiams said:


> Pmyers, you sound like a really nice guy who sees only the best in people.


Ha! Sorry but that made me laugh out loud.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> With lots of snapping fingers and nifty footwork?


sorry - couldn't resist...

_"When you're undead, 
You're undead all the way 
From your first tasty head
To your last rottin' day. 
When you're undead, 
Let them do what they can, 
You got numbers around, 
You're a cannibal man! 
You're showing some bone, 
Your limbs are disconnected! 
You let out a moan-- 
When people are digested, 
You're well protected! 
Cuz you are set 
against illness and plague, 
Which you'll never forget 
Till they blow you away. 
When you're undead, 
You stay 
Undead!"_


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

tiams said:


> Pmyers, you sound like a really nice guy who sees only the best in people.


Lol..thanks.

I just think it would be a lot more likely that a group of 30 people would be just a collection of random people including women and kids.

BTW...I would have left Randall on the fence but would have shot him to put him out of his misery.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

MonsterJoe said:


> sorry - couldn't resist...
> 
> _"When youre undead,
> Youre undead all the way
> ...


LOL  Good one!

The lyrics to "Somewhere" remain virtually unchanged...


> TONY:
> There's a place for us,
> Somewhere a place for us.
> Zombie-free without a care
> ...


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Wow, great thread - possibly even better than the show. Love the West Side Story/Thriller Zombies angle. Joe - LOVE your undead/jet song!

It's pretty much all been said, so I'll just add that I'm in the camp that would love to see Carl get his little guts ripped out at this point. He seems to be headed to a very bad place, but then the paradoxical quick scene where he went to his mother's arms after the Dale killing...I don't know if that was to say that he's back to just being a little kid, or just an effort to fool people into thinking that he's not going to go dark all the way. Whatever - I'm totally over him.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tiams said:


> Yes, the farm is something a group of 30 barbarians would want to overrun. It has a generator, wind power, vegetables being grown, running water, shelter, tools, vehicles,_* more women, chickens and cows to rape,*_ a defensible geography, weapons, etc. And this group has no chance against a vicious group of 30.
> 
> That's why Randal is such a liability if he contacts his group.


FYP...


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Instead of Mercy killing Dale, I would have let him die of his wounds in order to conduct a very important science experiment. He wasn't bitten, only mauled. So if we could have watched him die we would have seen whether he would turn into a zombie without being bitten.


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

tiams said:


> Instead of Mercy killing Dale, I would have let him die of his wounds in order to conduct a very important science experiment. He wasn't bitten, only mauled. So if we could have watched him die we would have seen whether he would turn into a zombie without being bitten.


That can still be done with Carl.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

tiams said:


> Instead of Mercy killing Dale, I would have let him die of his wounds in order to conduct a very important science experiment. He wasn't bitten, only mauled. So if we could have watched him die we would have seen whether he would turn into a zombie without being bitten.


Rest of the group found him after his belly had been ripped open, no way to know if it was with teeth or fingers.

phox


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

jgmack1 said:


> That can still be done with Carl.


LMAO


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)




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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

tiams said:


> Instead of Mercy killing Dale, I would have let him die of his wounds in order to conduct a very important science experiment. He wasn't bitten, only mauled. So if we could have watched him die we would have seen whether he would turn into a zombie without being bitten.


It was still zombie contact, though, so the results would be somewhat inconclusive. A better experiment would be the suicidal farmer's daughter. Encourage her to go through with it, and then watch her corpse for signs of undeath.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> By Randall's admission, when they find women they rape them to death.


I thought Randall specifically said that they didn't kill the girls they raped. They just raped them, made the father watch, and then left them all there alive.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

jgmack1 said:


> That can still be done with Carl.


LOL. 
Is there any chance the stuck in the mud zombie scratched him?


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought Randall specifically said that they didn't kill the girls they raped. They just raped them, made the father watch, and then left them all there alive.


It was hard to understand whether Randall said they left the father alive, or all of them alive. From the (fake?) anguished way he said it, it seemed to imply that that they raped and killed the girls and didn't even have the decency to kill the father after making him watch that.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DreadPirateRob said:


> It was hard to understand whether Randall said they left the father alive, or all of them alive. From the (fake?) anguished way he said it, it seemed to imply that that they raped and killed the girls and didn't even have the decency to kill the father after making him watch that.


That's what I got out of it.


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## photoshopgrl (Nov 22, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> I thought Randall specifically said that they didn't kill the girls they raped. They just raped them, made the father watch, and then left them all there alive.


Just watched again, he isn't clear at all. Just states they didn't kill the father just left them laying there... which kind of indicates they did kill the girls and didn't even have the decency to kill the father too. I guess that's up for debate depending on how you read that scene.


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Anyone else suspect that the girl Walker that Randall killed was one of the rape victims?

Would anyone like to see Carl made a Walker and them have him infect his mother?


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Carl is so creepy that he appears less human than a Walker. The black guy has about as much to say as a Walker, but is less animated. I feel that in time the Walkers will speed up, as you have to learn to be a Walker beore you can be a runner.


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## TiVotion (Dec 6, 2002)

Indeed. I'd be a lot more worried about Carl killing me in my sleep than a walker. That kid ain't gonna be quite right when he grows up.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TiVotion said:


> Indeed. I'd be a lot more worried about Carl killing me in my sleep than a walker. That kid ain't gonna be quite right when he grows up.


IF he grows up. All story concerns aside, he's a growing kid in a show in which only weeks or even days pass each season. They'll either have to start massive time jumps forward, or get rid of the actor. (Or, I guess, re-cast the part, but I can't see that going over very well...since they'd have to do it every couple of years as successive kids grow out of it.)


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## ozzman73 (Nov 27, 2006)

Little Carlori was annoying this week, but I don't think his actions were far off for a boy his age, with no peers.

Think about it, he is growing up in a world that has departed any X-Box/soccer/pizza-eating civilized way. To being around a bunch of maladjusted grown ups.

This is the wild west, without having grown up in that environment. Every single action he takes is fueled by curiosity. Unfortunately, other than Shane, no one has shown him what it takes to survive in this new world. No weapons safety or handling, no situational awareness. Rick and Lori go back and forth between overprotecting Carlori and let him run wild without precautions. Without guidance, I hope he doesn't find his own "Piggy".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ozzman73 said:


> Think about it, he is growing up in a world that has departed any X-Box/soccer/pizza-eating civilized way.


Although he's only been growing up in that world for a very few months...


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

I forget, but didn't the big guy in the bar scene ask if they had any women (with a discomforting chuckle behind it)?


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## jgmack1 (Oct 19, 2011)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I forget, but didn't the big guy in the bar scene ask if they had any women (with a discomforting chuckle behind it)?


The people in the bar wouldn't have kicked a female Walker out of bed.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I forget, but didn't the big guy in the bar scene ask if they had any women (with a discomforting chuckle behind it)?


IIRC, it was even more overt than that. I think the skinnier one asked if they had any women, and then the big guy said something like, "Yeah, we haven't had any of that in a long time." It was very obvious that if these guys were allowed back to the farm, the women would not be safe.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jgmack1 said:


> The people in the bar wouldn't have kicked a female Walker out of bed.


Maybe the fat guy, but not the other one....


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> IIRC, it was even more overt than that. I think the skinnier one asked if they had any women, and then the big guy said something like, "Yeah, we haven't had any of that in a long time." It was very obvious that if these guys were allowed back to the farm, the women would not be safe.


From "Nebraska" episode -
_Dave: _"You got food? Water?"
_Tony (while urinating in corner of bar): _"You got cooze? I haven't had a piece of a$$ in weeks!"


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> From "Nebraska" episode -
> _Dave: _"You got food? Water?"
> _Tony (while urinating in corner of bar): _"You got cooze? I haven't had a piece of a$$ in weeks!"


Exactly. It was very obvious what his intentions were.


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## Necromancer2006 (Jan 26, 2008)

I don't know if it's really a spoiler or not, but in case there's any spoiler nazi's around I'll tag it as such just in case.

Here's next week's Talking Dead guests:



Spoiler



Zachary Levi (Chuck) and Lauren Cohen (Maggie!!)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Necromancer2006 said:


> I don't know if it's really a spoiler or not, but in case there's any spoiler nazi's around I'll tag it as such just in case.
> 
> Here's next week's Talking Dead guests:
> 
> ...


I think you meant to say


Spoiler



Zachary Levi (Chuck) and Lauren Cohen (Vivian Volkoff)


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

BTW John Bernthal aka Shane is set to be a guest on Monday's 3/12 Letterman show.
I would imagine to advertise the spring finale show.

http://www.interbridge.com/lineups.html


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