# TiVo 14.5 Update



## stevo1569

Now I know this report and the TIVo twitter account don't specify an update number but I'm assuming the next update will be 14.5. Here is an article from Engadget HD about a new performance & stability update that was said to be released "2 weeks" from the said date (Jun 28). I'm certainly hoping for at least 90% of the menus to be converted to HD and *maybe* for core #2 to be enabled?


----------



## wmcbrine

I can tell you that 14.5 is testing (by playing Reversi). That's all I know about it.


----------



## caddyroger

First get the HD work before working on adding more. Hd is not worth 2 cents if they do not work.


----------



## puffdaddy

wmcbrine said:


> I can tell you that 14.5 is testing (by playing Reversi). That's all I know about it.


Does it appear to be a beta version? i.e., 14.5.C5-01-3 or something like that?


----------



## wmcbrine

14.5.K1, currently.


----------



## wp746911

soooo what does it do? TIVO really really needs to do a large upgrade- they NEED to enable dual cores/speed things up and enable full HD menus. They have had plenty of time to do it. I have a premier and still use it-it's ok and I'm not complaining b/c I new what it was when I bought it- but if TIVO can't make the premier significantly better quickly they would have completely lost their edge.


----------



## aaronwt

wp746911 said:


> soooo what does it do? TIVO really really needs to do a large upgrade- they NEED to enable dual cores/speed things up and enable full HD menus. They have had plenty of time to do it. I have a premier and still use it-it's ok and I'm not complaining b/c I new what it was when I bought it- but if TIVO can't make the premier significantly better quickly they would have completely lost their edge.


I would rather they do it slowly, than introduce problems by releasing the updates too fast without testing them. That's why they typically slowly release the updates, so if a problem crops up, they can pull it without having all the boxes affected. 
And since there is no way to test for everything, you can't find out about some things until it gets released to a larger sample of boxes.


----------



## DaveWhittle

I have to say I'm concerned that a move from software version 14.4 to 14.5 (if that's the number of the next update) isn't going to give us much of what we want.


----------



## RichB

wp746911 said:


> soooo what does it do? TIVO really really needs to do a large upgrade- they NEED to enable dual cores/speed things up and enable full HD menus. They have had plenty of time to do it. I have a premier and still use it-it's ok and I'm not complaining b/c I new what it was when I bought it- but if TIVO can't make the premier significantly better quickly they would have completely lost their edge.


Enabling the other core will not help much.
They are going to the inernet too often and not caching anything.

Many are having crashing issues. If you think that is tough to debug in a single core environment, then dual core makes it an order of magnitude more complex.

- Rich


----------



## orangeboy

wp746911 said:


> ...if TIVO can't make the premier significantly better quickly they would have completely lost their edge.


If TiVo could make the Premiere significantly better quickly, don't you think they would have released the product in a more complete state? I have a feeling the designers are in-house, while the engineering is outsourced. Cheaper, better, faster: you can only pick 2 of the 3. Maybe TiVo can only pick 1 of the 3?



DaveWhittle said:


> I have to say I'm concerned that a move from software version 14.4 to 14.5 (if that's the number of the next update) isn't going to give us much of what we want.


Unless of course you want a bug fix that is included in 14.5.


----------



## bigpatky

RichB said:


> They are going to the inernet too often and not caching anything.


this is what i want fixed. caching. do it, tivo.


----------



## aaronwt

it's still pulling the info down in realtime over the internet so only so much can be cached. Like the info about the show, episode list, actors. That info seems to come down only when you select that title. And unless they try and cache everything, they have no way of knowing what info you will want access to. 

Of course it could be a little faster. but even on my girlfriends 1mbs DSL connection, it's not to bad in pulling up the info. But the speed is slightly faster with my FiOS 35mbs line.

If they could cut the access speed in half from what I currently have it would be very very snappy.


----------



## RichB

orangeboy said:


> If TiVo could make the Premiere significantly better quickly, don't you think they would have released the product in a more complete state? I have a feeling the designers are in-house, while the engineering is outsourced. Cheaper, better, faster: you can only pick 2 of the 3. Maybe TiVo can only pick 1 of the 3?
> 
> Unless of course you want a bug fix that is included in 14.5.


Other DVR's use the broad-comm chips and TiVo has the latest greatest hardware. They cheeped out on the memory (500bm) because they always find a way to make it hard to expand the capability of their DVR's. The S3/HD's had terrible network performance so live streaming is out.

The Premieres are support to be expandable and run other and maybe even 3'rd party apps. That requires memory.

Their caching sucks. That is done best in memory but it can also be done on disk which is a whole lot better than going back out on the INTERNET.

Cheaper happened because of the advancements in the industry. They got faster with the new hardware. The software is what got a lot slower.
It is the TiVo/Flash fault which was entirely predictable. Early in development, you try some menus and say. Gee that isn't very fast.

By saying "if they can do it better, the would" I would have to agree. 
But basically, you are saying they are not competent, since others can do it better with the same hardware.

- Rich


----------



## jmill

14.5.K1 or any 14.x are the bug fix releases

For new new features the version will be 15.x or 16.x


----------



## shaown

So its very possible, Tivo considering performance, crashes, caching, etc etc etc to all be bug fixes. So hopefully 14.5 will help address all of that.
Maybe once the platform is all souped up, we can hope for new features like streaming, etc, etc.


----------



## DPF

I'd be thrilled if they'd just re-order the network calls. Even if they don't cache, the need for all that crap to populate before function returning is what cripples this thing. The UI effectively locks up until all the graphics get pulled.

Let the DVR function as a DVR, then worry about all the pretties. Waiting for the pretties before you can move the next screen is infuriating. During times when my wireless is acting up, it renders the thing nearly unusable as it can take forever to finally time out.

I know that's due to my network performance, and for that I don't blame them. However I'm a lot more technically capable than grandma and Joe SixPack, they won't be as forgiving. Not to mention be more likely to have wonky networks.

As is, the Premiere is a deathtrap for larger adoption with the masses. The function being crippled by a less than perfect network must be fixed, for TiVo's sake.

And I'm an unabashed TiVo fan.

-DPF


----------



## stevo1569

Just keep in mind that most electronics with frequent updates (ie. Playstation 3) updates with half step and full step update numbers ( ie. X.0 X.5) most of the time will have significant buy fixes and new features


----------



## Tony Chick

I agree with others, a minor point release isn't going to have new features just bug fixes. Of course, a lot of what we are complaining about can be considered bugs. The non-sticking video resolution settings were one they'd mentioned as fixed internally.


----------



## smbaker

bigpatky said:


> this is what i want fixed. caching. do it, tivo.


If you don't cache, doesn't it make it all that much easier for the advertisers to track how often the ads are being displayed?

A cache could be implemented in an afternoon. If the Tivo was opensource, it would have been implemented the first week. It seems mighty peculiar that it's taking months to get caching implemented, unless it's designed that way on purpose, probably by someone who had very little understanding of the performance implications of fetching everything on demand.

Either Tivo has somehow hired the worst programmers in the world to implement this box, or there are other motives at hand for these design decisions.


----------



## sghrush

According to Margret from Tivo, this next update should include the Video Output bug fix that will allow a user to select all outputs (for 100% native) and all outputs will stay selected instead of 4/5 deselecting themselves 2/2 HDMI handshake problems.


----------



## RichB

smbaker said:


> If you don't cache, doesn't it make it all that much easier for the advertisers to track how often the ads are being displayed?
> 
> A cache could be implemented in an afternoon. If the Tivo was opensource, it would have been implemented the first week. It seems mighty peculiar that it's taking months to get caching implemented, unless it's designed that way on purpose, probably by someone who had very little understanding of the performance implications of fetching everything on demand.
> 
> Either Tivo has somehow hired the worst programmers in the world to implement this box, or there are other motives at hand for these design decisions.


TiVo already collects statistics from activity that is phoned home.

Apparently, performance was not a design objective nor was it considered a blocking criteria for shipment. Management = the problem 

- Rich


----------



## smbaker

RichB said:


> TiVo already collects statistics from activity that is phoned home.


Yes, but advertisements fetched directly from the advertiser are proof that an advertisement was shown. This sort of system was prevalent for a time in pay-per-impression advertising on the web before pay-per-click became much more popular.



RichB said:


> Apparently, performance was not a design objective nor was it considered a blocking criteria for shipment. Management = the problem


Lack of caching is such an elementary and obvious mistake, and a fairly easy thing to fix.

I've read speculation that the engineering/programming was outsourced (though there's no confirmation of it as far as I know). I suppose it's possible that a communication barrier let something like this happen.


----------



## RichB

smbaker said:


> Yes, but advertisements fetched directly from the advertiser are proof that an advertisement was shown. This sort of system was prevalent for a time in pay-per-impression advertising on the web before pay-per-click became much more popular.


Either way it os not excusable. 
On the one hand, you can pay the price when you click.
On the other hand, nothing like pissing off the people who bought the box so you can sell click throughs.

There is one of the reasons Google rules the search world. 
They gave the searcher what they wanted first.

- Rich


----------



## rv65

RichB said:


> Other DVR's use the broad-comm chips and TiVo has the latest greatest hardware. They cheeped out on the memory (500bm) because they always find a way to make it hard to expand the capability of their DVR's. The S3/HD's had terrible network performance so live streaming is out.
> 
> The Premieres are support to be expandable and run other and maybe even 3'rd party apps. That requires memory.
> 
> Their caching sucks. That is done best in memory but it can also be done on disk which is a whole lot better than going back out on the INTERNET.
> 
> Cheaper happened because of the advancements in the industry. They got faster with the new hardware. The software is what got a lot slower.
> It is the TiVo/Flash fault which was entirely predictable. Early in development, you try some menus and say. Gee that isn't very fast.
> 
> By saying "if they can do it better, the would" I would have to agree.
> But basically, you are saying they are not competent, since others can do it better with the same hardware.
> 
> - Rich


512 MB of RAM is quite generous for a box running a 1,100 DMIPS CPU. Most cable DVR's running a similar chip have half that amount like 256 MB.


----------



## andrewl570

Anyone think tivo will cache in the future? For some reason I think the speed we see is the speed we get.


----------



## aaronwt

sghrush said:


> According to Margret from Tivo, this next update should include the Video Output bug fix that will allow a user to select all outputs (for 100% native) and all outputs will stay selected instead of 4/5 deselecting themselves 2/2 HDMI handshake problems.


This fix better not break what is already working properly for me.


----------



## crxssi

wp746911 said:


> soooo what does it do? TIVO really really needs to do a large upgrade- they NEED to enable dual cores/speed things up.


As has been discussed numerous times: yes, performance issues need to be addressed, but it is highly unlikely the enabling dual cores will do much to improve performance.


----------



## donnoh

DPF said:


> I'd be thrilled if they'd just re-order the network calls. Even if they don't cache, the need for all that crap to populate before function returning is what cripples this thing. The UI effectively locks up until all the graphics get pulled.
> 
> Let the DVR function as a DVR, then worry about all the pretties. Waiting for the pretties before you can move the next screen is infuriating. During times when my wireless is acting up, it renders the thing nearly unusable as it can take forever to finally time out.
> 
> I know that's due to my network performance, and for that I don't blame them. However I'm a lot more technically capable than grandma and Joe SixPack, they won't be as forgiving. Not to mention be more likely to have wonky networks.
> 
> As is, the Premiere is a deathtrap for larger adoption with the masses. The function being crippled by a less than perfect network must be fixed, for TiVo's sake.
> 
> And I'm an unabashed TiVo fan.
> 
> -DPF


+1


----------



## johnner1999

aaronwt said:


> I would rather they do it slowly, than introduce problems by releasing the updates too fast without testing them. That's why they typically slowly release the updates, so if a problem crops up, they can pull it without having all the boxes affected.
> And since there is no way to test for everything, you can't find out about some things until it gets released to a larger sample of boxes.


I would rather they released the product with all of the features being the same. And no performance hiccups. But alas I assume TiVo was getting cash starved and or needed more lime light.

Dont get me wrong love TiVo I had an original Philips model, Sony DVR, Humax with Dvd burner, a couple dual tuner S2, one full S3 and a couple HS boxes and now two S4 units.

BUT

as soon as my cable company releases its Remote DVR system I'll most likly sell these Two tivo boxes...


----------



## aaronwt

johnner1999 said:


> I would rather they released the product with all of the features being the same. And no performance hiccups. .......


I'm not sure that there are many electronics devices that meets that criteria that have been released in this century.

It would certainly be extremely rare.


----------



## johnner1999

aaronwt said:


> I'm not sure that there are many electronics devices that meets that criteria that have been released in this century.
> 
> It would certainly be extremely rare.


well I didn't say flawless operation 

but close are:

Apple TV
PS3 
Xbox 360
iPod
iPhone (more or less)
TiVo Humax units 
TV's with widgets


----------



## aaronwt

johnner1999 said:


> well I didn't say flawless operation
> 
> but close are:
> 
> Apple TV
> PS3
> Xbox 360
> iPod
> iPhone (more or less)
> TiVo Humax units
> TV's with widgets


Most device that have firmware updates end up having some issue crop up at some point and then a new firmware has to be released quickly for a fix. the PS3 and Xbox 360 are prime examples of that. WHich to me doesn't make them clsoe at all. Not to mention other issues they both had as well. The new iphone has some serious issues which might end up biting Apple in the ass if they aren't careful.
I seen issues with Widgets on TVs that needed to get updates to be fixed as. I've never used an IPod(I only use devices that can play WMA files)


----------



## johnner1999

aaronwt said:


> Most device that have firmware updates end up having some issue crop up at some point and then a new firmware has to be released quickly for a fix. the PS3 and Xbox 360 are prime examples of that. WHich to me doesn't make them clsoe at all. Not to mention other issues they both had as well. The new iphone has some serious issues which might end up biting Apple in the ass if they aren't careful.
> I seen issues with Widgets on TVs that needed to get updates to be fixed as. I've never used an IPod(I only use devices that can play WMA files)


Well the 'boxes' I listed for the most part performed well with near zero performance loss (granted with updates many of them gained speed and glitz BUT prior to updates the device out of box experience was pretty darn good.)

as far as the iPhone same thing with each firmware they did get better BUT for the most part they worked! (off topic iPhone 4 may or may not have issues - but they seem to drop less calls)

On top of that none of the above boxes had a hodgepodge of menus and interfaces at launch (or ever)... most well known companies would never get on stage and say they reinvented themselves with a go live product in the shape the TiVo S4 was delivered in.

Lastly - I'm not BASHING tivo rather questioning what were they thinking? I like my S4s BUT its the last money TiVo gets from me (besides the yearly fee). At the end of the day they both do the job which is why we still have them. But being a Mac guy, it pains me to see so many menu changes and crappy code in a released product. Not saying that I dont want updates every few months to teak this or unlock parts that were not finished. I so do want them and look forward to them. But its like buying a brand new car that has half of the interior from the last generation and then have the dealer tell me MAYBE in 3 months we will ask you to return so we can finish the rest of the car to match...

I hope this didn't come across as tivo hate -- which its not!


----------



## sghrush

aaronwt said:


> This fix better not break what is already working properly for me.


I think you're one of the rare ones. It was a big enough problem which affected enough users that Tivo thought it best to add a bug fix for this in the next update.


----------



## aaronwt

johnner1999 said:


> Well the 'boxes' I listed for the most part performed well with near zero performance loss (granted with updates many of them gained speed and glitz BUT prior to updates the device out of box experience was pretty darn good.)
> 
> as far as the iPhone same thing with each firmware they did get better BUT for the most part they worked! (off topic iPhone 4 may or may not have issues - but they seem to drop less calls)
> 
> On top of that none of the above boxes had a hodgepodge of menus and interfaces at launch (or ever)... most well known companies would never get on stage and say they reinvented themselves with a go live product in the shape the TiVo S4 was delivered in.
> 
> Lastly - I'm not BASHING tivo rather questioning what were they thinking? I like my S4s BUT its the last money TiVo gets from me (besides the yearly fee). At the end of the day they both do the job which is why we still have them. But being a Mac guy, it pains me to see so many menu changes and crappy code in a released product. Not saying that I dont want updates every few months to teak this or unlock parts that were not finished. I so do want them and look forward to them. But its like buying a brand new car that has half of the interior from the last generation and then have the dealer tell me MAYBE in 3 months we will ask you to return so we can finish the rest of the car to match...
> 
> I hope this didn't come across as tivo hate -- which its not!


I thought I had read where TiVo had already manufactured a bunch of the Permieres and they were sitting in warehouses. You can only do that for so long. At some point the product has to be shoved out the door which is probably what happened. You can only sit on stock for so long. Since each day you are losing more an more money.

And with their quarterly statement(Feb-April) it does show that TiVo had a big upswing in sales(their hardware revenue tripled). So the one month(April) in the quarter when they sold Premieres really boosted their totals.

Although the results of the next quarter, May through July, where they sell premieres the entire time should really show how their sales have been going with the Premiere.


----------



## lessd

aaronwt said:


> I thought I had read where TiVo had already manufactured a bunch of the Permieres and they were sitting in warehouses. You can only do that for so long. At some point the product has to be shoved out the door which is probably what happened. You can only sit on stock for so long. Since each day you are losing more an more money.
> 
> And with their quarterly statement(Feb-April) it does show that TiVo had a big upswing in sales(their hardware revenue tripled). So the one month(April) in the quarter when they sold Premieres really boosted their totals.
> 
> Although the results of the next quarter, May through July, where they sell premieres the entire time should really show how their sales have been going with the Premiere.


And they had stop making the TiVo-HD, so all TiVo had to sell was the Series 4.


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> I thought I had read where TiVo had already manufactured a bunch of the Permieres and they were sitting in warehouses. You can only do that for so long. At some point the product has to be shoved out the door which is probably what happened. You can only sit on stock for so long. Since each day you are losing more an more money.


I believe Dave Zatz or Ben Drawbaugh at one point said based of things they had heard the Premiere was originally supposed to launch in November 2009. I believe the hardware was ready and based off the instruction manual showing up around the holidays it makes sense.


----------



## johnner1999

aaronwt said:


> I thought I had read where TiVo had already manufactured a bunch of the Permieres and they were sitting in warehouses. You can only do that for so long. At some point the product has to be shoved out the door which is probably what happened. You can only sit on stock for so long. Since each day you are losing more an more money.
> 
> And with their quarterly statement(Feb-April) it does show that TiVo had a big upswing in sales(their hardware revenue tripled). So the one month(April) in the quarter when they sold Premieres really boosted their totals.
> 
> Although the results of the next quarter, May through July, where they sell premieres the entire time should really show how their sales have been going with the Premiere.


The 7 P's of Business (or anything)

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance


----------



## aaronwt

When you deal with the government like some of the contracts we have at work, there is almost never proper planning. They never even plan for common sense stuff. One agency built a new structure and forgot to include a server room. They never even realized their mistake until a few months before the building was supposed to be finished. So they had to pay through the nose for some extra space in another building and a super fast connection between the buildings.

And unfortunately we see issues like this regularly. It's amazing the government can get anything done. But they sure know how to spend money. They certainly throw enough our way.

But I understand the government since it is the norm, we see it in private industry too, but nowhere near as often as with the government.


----------



## sghrush

aaronwt said:


> When you deal with the government like some of the contracts we have at work, there is almost never proper planning. They never even plan for common sense stuff. One agency built a new structure and forgot to include a server room. They never even realized their mistake until a few months before the building was supposed to be finished. So they had to pay through the nose for some extra space in another building and a super fast connection between the buildings.
> 
> And unfortunately we see issues like this regularly. It's amazing the government can get anything done. But they sure know how to spend money. They certainly throw enough our way.
> 
> But I understand the government since it is the norm, we see it in private industry too, but nowhere near as often as with the government.


That is so true!


----------



## tvmaster2

add me to the list who expected more from Tivo considering what they told me on the phone back in April!
Tivo used to be the leading edge in DVR's, now they are floundering.
My home-made HTPC running the wildly buggy Hauppauge HD-PVR is quicker and slicker to get around in than the Premiere. It cost me just over $300 to build, offers limitless storage, and can be accessed in any room in the house.
And I'm a technical idiot in comparison to the Tivo gang.
So what's the problem, folks?
Get it together soon, before my cable company, Cox, gets their act together.


----------



## wp746911

still waiting...


----------



## stevo1569

wp746911 said:


> still waiting...


...for what?


----------



## innocentfreak

I would guess the update that supposedly is due out sometime soon.


----------



## TrueTurbo

wp746911 said:


> still waiting...


Haven't you got something better to do with your time!?


----------



## caddyroger

TrueTurbo said:


> Haven't you got something better to do with your time!?


I am still waiting for them to get the HD menu to work as advertise


----------



## WillH

My TiVo Premiere XL was updated last night to Software version 14.5K1 and HD Version 1-5/2010.06.24

I haven't spent much time with it but I have noticed that the HD Menu does seem snappier. Also, I did notice the VIDEO SETTINGS screen now displays your selections on that screen as opposed to a sub-screen; However, the video resolution not sticking is still an issue as mine reverted back to 1080i after having set it to 720p, 1080i and 1080p when I powered off and then back on.

It also will still throw you out of whatever recording you are presently watching if you happen to leave the HD menu and go to one of the SD menu subscreens.

Still have the same SD subscreens and still have that garbage filled discovery bar and the cache issue - sure wish I could turn that off completely - would probably speed up dramatically.

Looks like a slow evolution here. Maybe by V15.o or V16.0 they may have it all worked out. I like it OK now - Just a few non-critical bugs they hopefully will keep working on.


----------



## wp746911

nice glad to hear it's coming out- although tivo is taking their sweet time getting the premiere up to speed....


----------



## greghodg

I installed the 14.5.K1 update yesterday morning. The interface feels much faster. I compared operation to a video from an engadget review a few months ago, and verified the improvement. The channel guide is instantaneous now, and the suggestion bar thing at the top doesn't go blank and slowly reload whenever you change menus. I don't know about any other changes, but I'm pretty happy with the UI performance.


----------



## mvnuenen

HOLY SH** - I got upgraded to 14.5K last night and my PXL is now super snappy. Like Aaron's, mine was never really slow to start with but I'm now getting speeds like the S3 used to be


----------



## innocentfreak

No updates here, but I did notice on both my XLs they did download a good chunk of data.


----------



## kturcotte

innocentfreak said:


> No updates here, but I did notice on both my XLs they did download a good chunk of data.


I noticed that too, along with it taking quite awhile to process, but still no "Pending Restart". I'm thinking it's probably on there, but waiting for a go-ahead from Tivo during another check in (Like the DirecTivos).


----------



## innocentfreak

Yeah I figured that. At first I thought it might be the start of caching where it downloaded all the artwork, since a couple of my screens instant loaded, but others took as long as they always do.


----------



## Jimbo713

When it shows "pending restart", the TiVo will reboot automatically at 2am the next morning and install the update. Or, you can force an update under the "help" menu in teh HD interface.


----------



## bigpatky

i got it sometime yesterday. i haven't noticed any improvements, but my premiere wasn't _that_ slow so it's hard to say if it's up to speed or not.


----------



## wolfskinbjc

14.5 +1, will be worth it.


----------



## yunlin12

Got it, HDUI definitely snappier :up:

Edit: Found a bug, while browsing video podcasts, after a while, Tivo gave me an out of memory error, but at least no freezing, it just kicked out of the menu, and back to tivo central


----------



## Jimbo713

Hey! 14.5.K1 is absolutely an improvement. HD snaps (I didn't think it was possible!) Also, the screen images along the top take no time to appear. It appears that a major change in the logical screen drawing scheme has been employed. It is MUCH better. This software update really deserves a thread of its own.


----------



## crxssi

Jimbo713 said:


> Hey! 14.5.K1 is absolutely an improvement. This software update really deserves a thread of its own.


Well, look at the subject- this *IS* a thread of its own


----------



## billm555

Maybe he means ".K1" needs its own?


Bill


----------



## jmill

no updates here yet...


----------



## CapnSensible

I have forced a connection about 5 times in the last day, but no update here.


----------



## DaveWhittle

I also forced a connection a couple times to no avail. 

I was one of the last to get the 14.4 update, so I'd be surprised if I'm early this round.


----------



## kturcotte

DaveWhittle said:


> I also forced a connection a couple times to no avail.
> 
> I was one of the last to get the 14.4 update, so I'd be surprised if I'm early this round.


I imagine once a day Tivo enters certain service numbers who are supposed to get the update, and once they connect, they get the go-ahead.


----------



## andyf

kturcotte said:


> I imagine once a day Tivo enters certain service numbers who are supposed to get the update, and once they connect, they get the go-ahead.


I imagine it's automated. I'd hate to be the person entering in a few thousand numbers into the computer each day.


----------



## dolfan954

Just thought I'd mention what I heard from a TiVo rep while I was canceling one of my TiVo's. He said that all new Premieres automatically download the update and the rest are being rolled out in "waves". He suggested that re-running the guided set-up would certainly download the update if you wanted to go through that process again to update manually as that would cause it to do so.

Hope that helps with some confusion, please don't shoot the messenger lol.

Edit: Ran the guided setup and nothing happened. TiVo and their reps are always so truthful...


----------



## andyf

No luck re-running GS either! It sounded plausible though.


----------



## Monty2_2001

andyf said:


> I imagine it's automated. I'd hate to be the person entering in a few thousand numbers into the computer each day.


You'd be amazed at how cheap data entry in India would be vs setting up automated systems.


----------



## kturcotte

dolfan954 said:


> Just thought I'd mention what I heard from a TiVo rep while I was canceling one of my TiVo's. He said that all new Premieres automatically download the update and the rest are being rolled out in "waves". He suggested that re-running the guided set-up would certainly download the update if you wanted to go through that process again to update manually as that would cause it to do so.
> 
> Hope that helps with some confusion, please don't shoot the messenger lol.
> 
> Edit: Ran the guided setup and nothing happened. TiVo and their reps are always so truthful...


After I backed up all my important shows to my computer, I did a complete Clear and Delete Everything. It did NOT grab 14.5. Well, maybe it did, but it didn't any authorization, so it's still on 14.4


----------



## curiousgeorge

dolfan954 said:


> Just thought I'd mention what I heard from a TiVo rep while I was canceling one of my TiVo's. He said that all new Premieres automatically download the update and the rest are being rolled out in "waves". He suggested that re-running the guided set-up would certainly download the update if you wanted to go through that process again to update manually as that would cause it to do so.
> 
> Hope that helps with some confusion, please don't shoot the messenger lol.
> 
> Edit: Ran the guided setup and nothing happened. TiVo and their reps are always so truthful...


Just set up a new Premiere yesterday...14.4 after the update on it. TiVo reps are not any more "inside" than Best Buy reps. Take stuff they say like this with a huge grain of salt.


----------



## lessd

curiousgeorge said:


> Just set up a new Premiere yesterday...14.4 after the update on it. TiVo reps are not any more "inside" than Best Buy reps. Take stuff they say like this with a huge grain of salt.


In the trial period TiVo only puts out new software to a random set of TiVos in that model series, you can have your TiVo call home 10 times a day but until TiVo turns on the big switch for any software only the select group will get it. The same thing is happening to the Series 3 with a new version 11h, a few got it (I got on one of my four Series 3 TiVos). When TiVo turns it on for all Series 3 TiVos we will all get it within a few days.
One just has to wait.


----------



## steinbch

Is there anyone that has it installed able to see if it has both cores working now?


----------



## lujan

lessd said:


> In the trial period TiVo only puts out new software to a random set of TiVos in that model series, you can have your TiVo call home 10 times a day but until TiVo turns on the big switch for any software only the select group will get it. The same thing is happening to the Series 3 with a new version 11h, a few got it (I got on one of my four Series 3 TiVos). When TiVo turns it on for all Series 3 TiVos we will all get it within a few days.
> One just has to wait.


That's true, I'm not going to do that again. Last time, I kept contacting the TiVo service and it didn't make a bit of different even though the TiVo technical support people kept telling me to do that to get the update. I think they just tell us to do that to make us think we're doing something to make the updates come to us faster.


----------



## mvnuenen

steinbch said:


> Is there anyone that has it installed able to see if it has both cores working now?


I got the update and will be happy to check. Is there an easy way to determine this?


----------



## steinbch

mvnuenen said:


> I got the update and will be happy to check. Is there an easy way to determine this?


That's a great question. I have no idea how others were able to see that information. Was hoping one of the enlightened ones would also have 14.5.


----------



## don129

steinbch said:


> That's a great question. I have no idea how others were able to see that information. Was hoping one of the enlightened ones would also have 14.5.


I have Tivo Premier version 14.5.K1-01-3-746 on my unit. Whats to look for? How can I verify whats new?


----------



## crxssi

CapnSensible said:


> I have forced a connection about 5 times in the last day, but no update here.


[rant]People, please stop posting that you don't have it yet or can't get it! That is useless "information" that nobody cares about and just clutters threads with nonsense. It will arrive for your machine when your machine comes up in queue and no sooner no matter how much you complain or post. Forcing it to "connect" will not make it be available for you, no matter how often or frequently you try[/rant].


----------



## Richard Cranium

crxssi said:


> [rant]People, please stop posting that you don't have it yet or can't get it! That is useless "information" that nobody cares about and just clutters threads with nonsense. It will arrive for your machine when your machine comes up in queue and no sooner no matter how much you complain or post. Forcing it to "connect" will not make it be available for you, no matter how often or frequently you try[/rant].


Speak for yourself. If you don't like the topic, don't read it.


----------



## crxssi

E. Norma Stitz said:


> Speak for yourself. If you don't like the topic, don't read it.


I read the thread (like most people) expecting information about the new version- people's experiences with it. If you just want to see a thread with nothing but "I don't have it yet", I am sure a better thread could be created. We could even start a "TiVo 15.0 Update, I don't have it yet" thread!


----------



## caddyroger

E. Norma Stitz said:


> Speak for yourself. If you don't like the topic, don't read it.


People does like to read this to see what the updates did any good or not. I can see people trying to read 150 pages of I did not get the update. 3 pages I got the update. Foricing and update 5 times a day is useless plus rerunning and clear and delete is not going to get the update. 
Right I have mine set on the SD menu. I did a reconnect 1 time since 7-15-2010. If you do not have at 7 am you probably not going to get it that day.


----------



## aaronwt

I thought the cutoff time was 10AM?


----------



## caddyroger

I have never seen a connection pass 4 am. It could be 10 am


----------



## b_scott

My PXL just rebooted in the middle of a program after freezing for 10 seconds. I hope it's this update, otherwise it's not good.


----------



## b_scott

nope, not 14.5, still on 14.4 - and now frozen again, unresponsive in the menus. WTF


----------



## Dreamin

Got 14.5.K. HD menus are much faster (MHO)

Flash Player version is: 14-5-mr/2010.05.27-1201 
Is this new with K?

Also got an email survey today asking lots of question about speed and performance in the LAST FEW DAYS (lots of caps in the questions!)


----------



## aaronwt

caddyroger said:


> I have never seen a connection pass 4 am. It could be 10 am


I was joking


----------



## rocko

Dreamin said:


> Got 14.5.K. HD menus are much faster (MHO)
> 
> Flash Player version is: 14-5-mr/2010.05.27-1201
> Is this new with K?
> 
> Also got an email survey today asking lots of question about speed and performance in the LAST FEW DAYS (lots of caps in the questions!)


14.4 Flash player version is *14-4-mr/2010.04.14-1801*
14.4 HD Menu software version is *1-1/2010.04.30-1720*


----------



## b_scott

force connected and rebooted my other premiere, and still on 14.4


----------



## WillH

I received a very interesting email from TiVo yesterday. It was a request to participate in a survey. I clicked the link and it first asked me which TiVo unit I was using and then it asked me a series of questions regarding my happiness with the unit. Every question was BOLD typed "IN THE LAST FEW DAYS". For example, how happy am I with the speed of the HD menu interface IN THE LAST FEW DAYS? There were about 15 questions in total and a couple of areas where I could type in a response in a text box.

I am assuming I got this because of the 14.5 update I got last week. I answered positive on most accounts because I have seen a dramatic increase in speed and performance (IN THE LAST FEW DAYS - Hah!). At least one of the questions was directed toward the discovery box at the top and the skipping in and out of HD/SD menu screens. It asked me how happy I as with the amount of advertising for example. It also asked me how "bothered" I was with the SD menus being part of the HD interface. Other questions were regarding the speed of the unit and so forth.

I don't know, maybe those few of us that got it (14.5 update) so far are unwitting beta testers. As I stated before, I am pleased with the unit and very pleased after the latest update. 14.4 was a good update and 14.5 is even better. If they can give us a way to turn off the discovery bar and its advertising, I might even say it is a spectacular DVR. My only other gripe is the fact that it will throw you out of whatever recorded show you are watching if you click on one of the submenus that take you out of the HD menu interface (Settings, messages, setup, etc.).

I am confident TiVo is working on improving the interface and speed and I am willing to wait it out. It is miles better than my old Comcast box already. Yes - the crashing was a major issue but they seem to have addressed that with an earlier software update. Mine has only had a hard crash once in over three months of daily use.


----------



## wmcbrine

b_scott said:


> force connected and rebooted my other premiere, and still on 14.4


BTW, there's no point rebooting if it doesn't say "Pending restart" in the System Information menu (after it's done processing the data from the connection). That's how you know you have a software update.


----------



## b_scott

wmcbrine said:


> BTW, there's no point rebooting if it doesn't say "Pending restart" in the System Information menu (after it's done processing the data from the connection). That's how you know you have a software update.


ah, thanks. I never knew where to look for that


----------



## andydumi

WillH said:


> I received a very interesting email from TiVo yesterday.
> ...
> 
> My only other gripe is the fact that it will throw you out of whatever recorded show you are watching if you click on one of the submenus that take you out of the HD menu interface (Settings, messages, setup, etc.).
> 
> I am confident TiVo is working on improving the interface and speed and I am willing to wait it out. It is miles better than my old Comcast box already. Yes - the crashing was a major issue but they seem to have addressed that with an earlier software update. Mine has only had a hard crash once in over three months of daily use.


We moved to 14.5k sometime before the weekend. Much faster overall. The top bar seems to populate once per menu entry then it sticks if you switch around menus so it seems there is at least caching while the menus are active. It changes a little based on the programs you scroll around, but most icons stay the same the entire menu session.

The speed is now to near a point where I could live with it permanently. Its not instant, its not perfect, but its livable.

I also got the same survey yesterday. I gave them high marks on speed. But I gave them bad marks on lack of new HD menus (particularly guide) and the constant HD/SD switching in menus.

If anyone wants me to try things, I will. I can even record a little video of the speed on my end if you guys want.


----------



## Andrel

WillH said:


> I received a very interesting email from TiVo yesterday. It was a request to participate in a survey. I clicked the link and it first asked me which TiVo unit I was using and then it asked me a series of questions regarding my happiness with the unit. Every question was BOLD typed "IN THE LAST FEW DAYS". For example, how happy am I with the speed of the HD menu interface IN THE LAST FEW DAYS? There were about 15 questions in total and a couple of areas where I could type in a response in a text box.


I am pretty sure I got the SAME survey as you describe after the 14.4 came out in early May. They may be targeting the first wave users for satisfaction level and if they should continue to improve it or move on with their roadmap.


----------



## Johnwashere

andydumi said:


> If anyone wants me to try things, I will. I can even record a little video of the speed on my end if you guys want.


I would love a video if its not to much trouble  I got 14.4 pretty late and Im sure Il get .5 late too and Im intrested to see how it is. 
Thanks!


----------



## Dreamin

andydumi said:


> The speed is now to near a point where I could live with it permanently. Its not instant, its not perfect, but its livable.


I agree... speed has reached a point where the HD interface is now usable... (of course YMMV)


----------



## Thuye

Hey CRXSSI, just wanted to let you know I have not received the 14.5 update.<G>


----------



## WillH

> I am pretty sure I got the SAME survey as you describe after the 14.4 came out in early May. They may be targeting the first wave users for satisfaction level and if they should continue to improve it or move on with their roadmap.


I also remember doing a survey a month or 2 ago but it was much shorter in length and it didn't have the IN THE LAST FEW DAYS remark after every question nor did it have the pointed questions regarding exact issues everyone has been complaining about. I remember it was much more general in scope about overall satisfaction - the questions were much more general in nature.

I posted my comment about the survey because it appears to me that TiVo IS listening and is doing something about the issues and they are asking for our direct feedback (in some cases). This did not seem to be the case early on when the Premiere first came out. In retrospect, they were probably swamped. Not defending them - Just my opinion. The 14.5 update is really a big step in the right direction.


----------



## andydumi

Johnwashere said:


> I would love a video if its not to much trouble  I got 14.4 pretty late and Im sure Il get .5 late too and Im intrested to see how it is.
> Thanks!


Here's a quick video I shot this morning. Its an odd angle as I tried to get the remote, Tivo and TV in the same shot. Notice the top ads seem cached and change far less than before. And its snappy going into the two most used menus for me, the main and my programs.

Its here but still processing:





I can do more specific videos if anyone wants, but tell me what you want to see. Also, here's an older video I found with old style loading and speed:





If someone can make a video before the update we can get an idea of the speed difference.


----------



## DaveWhittle

andydumi said:


> Its here but still processing:


Thanks for posting! And the cat FTW.


----------



## Johnwashere

DaveWhittle said:


> Thanks for posting! And the cat FTW.


x2!


----------



## vstone

Does the TiVo remote control the cat, tpoo?


----------



## KnordRW

For what it's worth, the menu speeds that video shows is what I've been seeing since sometime last weekend, right around the same time others here had been reporting that they got the update. In fact, it was so big of a change that I assumed that I had gotten it. I am still on 14.4 as of right now, though, which makes me think that the speed increase people are seeing isn't so much firmware related, as perhaps some kind of network update they did on the servers that stuff is served from. Maybe they got FiOS with the symmetrical upload.


----------



## mvnuenen

Johnwashere said:


> I would love a video if its not to much trouble  I got 14.4 pretty late and Im sure Il get .5 late too and Im intrested to see how it is.
> Thanks!


Funny enough, I was one of the last to get 14.4 but now one of the first to get 14.5.

The speeds I'm getting are similar as in the video with the exception that my initial home screen is also almost instantly. I have the feeling 14.5 is going to make a lot of people happy


----------



## gweempose

Like many others, I've been running the old SD menus on my Premieres not so much because of the speed, but because they are stable. I'm very pleased to hear that the HDUI is snappier with the update, but nobody has really commented on it's stability? For those of you with 14.5, does the Premiere seem better in this regard since the update?


----------



## innocentfreak

I think since 14.4 most people have had little if any problems with stability so unless they made it worse there is little to say.


----------



## gweempose

innocentfreak said:


> I think since 14.4 most people have had little if any problems with stability so unless they made it worse there is little to say.


Interesting. I guess I hadn't really been keeping up with things. If this is true, I'll probably switch over to the HDUI. I've always preferred the new interface, but I was getting all sorts of spontaneous lock-ups and rebooting before. It's good to know they addressed these issues with 14.4. If 14.5 does indeed make the user experience even better, it sounds like TiVo might finally have a somewhat solid product on their hands.


----------



## crxssi

Thuye said:


> Hey CRXSSI, just wanted to let you know I have not received the 14.5 update.<G>


Thanks for that meaningless and useless noise


----------



## mvnuenen

innocentfreak said:


> I think since 14.4 most people have had little if any problems with stability so unless they made it worse there is little to say.


Interestingly enough, the ONLY time I had a stability issue was a single freezing event while I was on 14.4. Even that event I contributed to the massive lineup change that TWC had just implemented in my area. Other than that, never had any issues...


----------



## tomhorsley

I haven't had any stability issues with my new Premier running 14.4, but I did get disgusted with the sluggish UI, and recently, looking for answers, found folks saying the SD interface was faster. They weren't kidding! It is the difference between driving to work on a glacier versus driving a Lamborghini. If I happen to notice I get the 14.5 version pushed, I'll try the HD interface again, but the current incarnation of HD is totally unusable.


----------



## Gavroche

crxssi said:


> [rant]People, please stop posting that you don't have it yet or can't get it! That is useless "information" that nobody cares about and just clutters threads with nonsense.[/rant].


Sorry I can't resist replying to that...

Most of what you find in general is nonsense (and I'm probably adding to it here by replying...)

That being said, this is still, IMHO, one of the best sites on the internet to find ACTUAL INFORMATION about Tivo, but, as with all internet message boards, the signal to noise ratio leaves a lot to be desired.


----------



## LimeyInPgh

I was one of the first to get 14.5 and shortly after, received the email with a link to the survey. I haven't seen too many problems with stability since I bought the box 4 months ago. People, please do not reply to survey saying that you are happy with the performance! It is certainly usable now but still a far cry from the performance of the SD UI. There is no excuse for the poor performance of the HDUI. The fact that they asked a number of questions about the satisfaction of the performance of the 14.5 software suggests to me they (TiVo) think it's good enough now. That's pretty troubling to me as new features always consume resources that lead to reduced performance.

The Internet is a great invention but it affords companies this horrid business model of delivering unfinished products with the promise of finishing it with software updates. This is probably why TiVo are falling behind. They can't concentrate on the next product because they spend so much time finishing the currently shipping product. Oh well, I still have my fingers crossed that TiVo will do right by us but I'm not as confident as I once was.


----------



## Luckyp79

b_scott said:


> force connected and rebooted my other premiere, and still on 14.4


Just want to say that if you force a connection and you get new software, on your network screen it should say pending restart. You don't need to force a connection and then reboot to see if you have new software.


----------



## Thuye

Hey CRXSSI, just wanted to let you know, STILL no 14.5 update. I'll keep you posted.<lol>


----------



## crxssi

Thuye said:


> Hey CRXSSI, just wanted to let you know, STILL no 14.5 update. I'll keep you posted.<lol>


I am sure you grew up as one of those annoying kids that kept poking other people when they asked you to stop and thought it was just so funny and amusing to irritate others.


----------



## DaveWhittle

So it looks like there was (possibly) a single batch of 14.5 over a week ago, and a survey sent to those that got it. But judging from the lack of input on this thread, I'm wondering if the update is continuing to roll out.

Has anyone got the 14.5 update in the last couple days?


----------



## Thuye

crxssi said:


> I am sure you grew up as one of those annoying kids that kept poking other people when they asked you to stop and thought it was just so funny and amusing to irritate others.


That's a statement, not a question and since you're "sure", then I'll just let you know still no update for me.


----------



## moolman

Hi folks,
So I guess I got the 14.5 update, just checked, I must of gotten it a week ago cause I did get the survey too and I answered it. I blasted them and said they were a crappy company for selling a POS product. I've been having major problems with the Tivo rebooting. I'm a little forgiving about it but my wife was pissed off cause it would interupt her watching TV. Every time you fast forward anything, in 5 minutes it would stutter and then freeze completely. So she resorted to just watching all the commercials and never pausing in fear of crashing the Tivo. Boy was she pissed that I sold our perfectly good S3 on ebay to get the premiere XL. Thinking it was a hardware issue, I did disconnect all the wires and removed the cable card. The Tivo worked fine, didn't crash when fast forwarded. They gave me that whole get an attenuator BS because by SNR DBI was 37 and it should be 33-34, whatever, this is the same cable card that was in my S3 for 2 years and it worked fine. So with this new update. I have not experienced a crash yet. The menus are slow still and clunky but when I fast forward through shows, it doesn't crash after 5 minutes. I tried to make it crash but so far so good. 

I know for the future, I will not be buying a new model Tivo until at least a year until it comes out. Living with a crashing DVR for a month was not worth the hassle and still I'm scared that at any moment the problem can arise, it sucks that every time I pick up the remote to do the 30 sec skip, I get a fear in my heart..haha.....


----------



## Dreamin

Never mind... it's now working the way it was


----------



## andydumi

Dreamin said:


> The behavior of my Ad Bar changed this morning.
> 
> Now, NO Ad bar is shown when I hit the Tivo button, nor any of the other screens. Except...
> 
> My Shows... that's the only place the Ad bar displays (all at once) I can go 'up' to the Ad bar.
> 
> When I go back to the main Menu, the Ad bar is dimmed and I cannot go 'up' to it.
> 
> It's REALLY NICE now :up::up:


Mine does the same except it still appears on the main menu after a few extra seconds.

But once it caches it the same ads show up even a few minutes later but instantly this time even on the main menu.

It seems it now loads after the actual menus and not before. So I can start navigating what I want and not wait on the ads. So if there are "new" ads to be downloaded they wait until after the menu displays. But once they are downloaded and cached as "fresh" they show up instantly with the menu. Not a bad change at all.


----------



## Dreamin




----------



## mvnuenen

Probably not. Try resetting your network and see if it comes up


----------



## andydumi

Dreamin said:


> Has your Tivo's behavior changed since you made your video? I watched the video again this morning thinking I was losing my mind.
> Mine is behaving very differently than shown in your video: No Ad bar in main menu, dimmed on return to main menu, etc.
> 
> I left it on the main menu until the 'screen-saver' feature switches to live tv... however long that is 10 minutes? 15 minutes? No Ad Bar displays for me.
> 
> Hope this change is permanent.


It changed slightly so its more like my second post. But certainly not like you are describing. What you describe sounds like a network error and it fails to download the proper ads.


----------



## turbobozz

Pretty sure the ad bar isn't supposed to be completely blank.

The greyed out ad bar looks like 14.5 is disabling the ad bar while it loads the ad bar.
Again, I don't think it is supposed to stay greyed out and inaccessible indefinitely.


----------



## b_scott

I've force connected my XL about 15 times, still no 14.5. what gives?


----------



## RichB

b_scott said:


> I've force connected my XL about 15 times, still no 14.5. what gives?


Well, TiVo rolls it out in phases.
At this point, you can conclude forced reboots to not work 

Be patient, grasshopper.

- Rich


----------



## Jayboy

So what do those of you that have the update to 14.5 think? Is the product over that "flop sweat" stage where you fell like Tivo is a viable player in the next round of set top box wars?

I'm a Tivo fanatic, with two HD Tivos that work fine. The fanatic side of me wanted to be an early adopter, but the timing was good for me to wait and see (i'll bet I could go another year easy on these HD's). 

But I knew the product would get better with updates. I'm wondering if I'll get one soon.

(My personal stance right now is to wait and see how Google TV is deployed).


----------



## Monty2_2001

Lets put it this way, they should've waited until at least 14.4 to release the thing. I don't have 14.5, but it sounds like that may even be the minimal level of quality to sell it. 

I hope Tivo didn't palm pre themselves with this, we'll see.


----------



## crxssi

Monty2_2001 said:


> I hope Tivo didn't palm pre themselves with this, we'll see.


LOL! I was a day 1 Palm Pre owner and know EXACTLY what you are talking about. It was released with major parts missing, slow, no apps, and battery problems. But it was a great concept for yet another Linux based phone (Linux WebOS).

Like clockwork, Palm released update after update, making it faster and faster, closing bugs, adding features, all the while more and more apps appeared. After a year, it was a very decent platform; although they could not improve the existing hardware for Sprint users (all other networks got the Pre + with twice the memory and storage).

Unfortunately, they were so far behind the competition for too long and made lots of marketing blunders. So while they eventually had something great, it was too late. And as a Sprint customer who wants more memory, more CPU, more screen, more camera, etc, I gave up and bought a Linux Android HTC Evo. There are things I really miss about the Pre/WebOS; but when the day is done, I am happy with the Evo (and Sprint STILL doesn't offer any new or improved WebOS device). And as we all know, Palm sold itself to HP.

Yes, there are very good lessons in this for TiVo....


----------



## tomhorsley

crxssi said:


> Yes, there are very good lessons in this for TiVo....


Too bad there isn't any real competitor to apply pressure though. I just got my first tivo because I couldn't take the comcast DVR anymore. Even with the HD menu interface, it was still infinitely superior to the scientific atlanta DVR I traded in for a cable card. As near as I can tell, the folks who wrote the interface software for the scientific atlanta box were people who were rejected by voicemail system design companies .

Of course, with the discovery that I can use the SD menus 99.9% of the time and plug in a USB keyboard for typing search terms, the tivo has leapfrogged the cable box another couple of orders of magnitude.


----------



## andydumi

Jayboy said:


> So what do those of you that have the update to 14.5 think? Is the product over that "flop sweat" stage where you fell like Tivo is a viable player in the next round of set top box wars?
> 
> I'm a Tivo fanatic, with two HD Tivos that work fine. The fanatic side of me wanted to be an early adopter, but the timing was good for me to wait and see (i'll bet I could go another year easy on these HD's).
> 
> But I knew the product would get better with updates. I'm wondering if I'll get one soon.
> 
> (My personal stance right now is to wait and see how Google TV is deployed).


Having 14.5 already I can tell you there is one thing that is keeping me from giving it a full thumbs up for everyone. The lack of an HD guide. I know there are many many SD menus, but the guide is the one thing we see the most and probably should have been HD first. Other than that, the bugs are virtually gone, no more reboots, its snappy and has oodles of features.

As secondary things I want in terms of priority in no particular order: pandora support, "watch in hd" option when going to a show and HD version available, and a guide indicator a show is scheduled to record, and genre coloring on the guide. With those 4 things I will be satisfied until Google TV comes and tries to raise the standard.


----------



## crxssi

tomhorsley said:


> Too bad there isn't any real competitor to apply pressure though.


At the moment, TiVo's biggest Premiere threat is themselves- the existing TiVo HD and TiVo S3 customers. If they do not win them over and see them upgrade (and I am one of them), then they lose additional revenue streams. But more importantly, they lose the advocates that had been their main selling force.

Example- I would still not recommend nor advocate for the Premiere... and I have a LOT of people that look to me for advice on what electronics to buy.

Meanwhile, the door of opportunity has been opening wider and wider for companies like Moxi and also home theater computers. Google will come along and eat TiVo's lunch if TiVo is not careful. As I have said many times, I don't see much in the way of innovation in TiVo's current products; it is just barely a creeping incremental. You can't make a backup of your settings, no integrated keyboard remote, no streaming from computers or other TiVo's, still only dual tuner, an outdated Netflix interface, slow menus, lack of fine-tuned customization, no Hulu, no web browser, etc. It is not a pretty picture for mid 2010.


----------



## _Ryan_

tomhorsley said:


> Too bad there isn't any real competitor to apply pressure though.


Well said. It's even more true for us OTA folks. At least in the cable dvr market the consumer has the option of going with the cable co DVR, a Moxi, or a TiVo. For OTA, it's pretty much just TiVo or a pc with a tuner card.

My personal guess is that TiVo's DVR patents are a large part of the problem for the competitive dvr landscape. Last I checked, though, the PTO invalidated their time warp patent a month or so ago, so things may be changing... (unless mass adoption of streaming video makes dvrs obsolete before dvr competition picks up - I bet that's a little ways down the road though)

I also think TiVo's patent enforcement litigation has consumed a lot of TiVo's resources that could have otherwise gone toward R&D for products like the Premiere, partially explaining the lackluster performance of the Premiere's menus thus far.


----------



## innocentfreak

crxssi said:


> At the moment, TiVo's biggest Premiere threat is themselves- the existing TiVo HD and TiVo S3 customers. If they do not win them over and see them upgrade (and I am one of them), then they lose additional revenue streams. But more importantly, they lose the advocates that had been their main selling force.
> 
> Example- I would still not recommend nor advocate for the Premiere... and I have a LOT of people that look to me for advice on what electronics to buy.
> 
> Meanwhile, the door of opportunity has been opening wider and wider for companies like Moxi and also home theater computers. Google will come along and eat TiVo's lunch if TiVo is not careful. As I have said many times, I don't see much in the way of innovation in TiVo's current products; it is just barely a creeping incremental. You can't make a backup of your settings, no integrated keyboard remote, no streaming from computers or other TiVo's, still only dual tuner, an outdated Netflix interface, slow menus, lack of fine-tuned customization, no Hulu, no web browser, etc. It is not a pretty picture for mid 2010.


Yes and no. TiVo has always made money on its subscriptions, but not on the hardware. While the Premiere is closer to making money for them hardware wise, I don't believe it is truly profitable for them or if it is it is at a very small amount per box. TiVo has always wanted you to keep your current hardware active and not upgrade. This is also why TiVo wants to be a software company rather than a hardware company.

I don't know how Google is going to eat TiVos lunch. The Google box doesn't have a tuner and instead uses IR blasters like the old series 2. While it may deliver some online content, you won't be using it to record TV. Instead you will be hooking it up so it controls your TiVo and does many of the online functions TiVo already does.

I agree TiVo has been slow to innovate and part of this leads back to the hardware. This is one of the reason TiVo has repeatedly petitioned the FCC regarding the cost of cablecard hardware since the economy of scale hasn't driven the prices down. If TiVo was able to make a nice amount on hardware sales equal to the amount of what they make on subscriptions, I could see them rolling out new hardware more often in the attempt to get users to upgrade. Until that happens I don't see them doing much other than addressing what they can software wise while only trying to get upgrades every several years or about the time they write-off lifetime accounts.


----------



## orangeboy

crxssi said:


> ...
> Example- I would still not recommend nor advocate for the Premiere... and I have a LOT of people that look to me for advice on what electronics to buy...


So do you still advocate 8-track tapes over cassette/CDs/MP3 players? VCRs over DVRs?


----------



## crxssi

orangeboy said:


> So do you still advocate 8-track tapes over cassette/CDs/MP3 players? VCRs over DVRs?


Hardy har har.


----------



## gamo62

orangeboy said:


> So do you still advocate 8-track tapes over cassette/CDs/MP3 players? VCRs over DVRs?


Nope. Reel to Reel over ALL of them.


----------



## rbienstock

So does 14.5 fix the reboot problem? (I get 1-2 reboots a day.)


----------



## rocko

I was having a reboot-fest on 14.4 for a while. Switched to SD menus for a few days - switched back to HD and the problem disappeared for some unknown reason.

Just sayin'


----------



## vstone

gamo62 said:


> Nope. Reel to Reel over ALL of them.


16 inch transcription disks!


----------



## steinbch

steinbch said:


> Is there anyone that has it installed able to see if it has both cores working now?


Zatz said that his TiVo contacts say that 14.5 still isn't using both cores. Very interesting, especially with the reported speed increases!


----------



## crxssi

steinbch said:


> Zatz said that his TiVo contacts say that 14.5 still isn't using both cores. Very interesting, especially with the reported speed increases!


As I have said many times, there is no reason to believe that having both cores operational will result in ANY noticeable speed increase on the UI. "Recording" and "Playback" do not involve encoding or decoding on the CPU level. So that just leaves housekeeping and the UI. If there is no housekeeping going on at the moment (which is normal to have none), and the UI is single-threaded, then having a second CPU does nothing to improve anything.

Now, if the UI were multi-threaded, it could make a difference. But I very much doubt it is (although I would love for them to prove me wrong).


----------



## turbobozz

I heard the second core isn't being used right now because they are planning to reserve it for handling streams to multiple extenders simultaneously.

OK, I didn't really hear that.
I just thought it would be funny to start a rumor.


----------



## aaronwt

innocentfreak said:


> Yes and no. TiVo has always made money on its subscriptions, but not on the hardware. While the Premiere is closer to making money for them hardware wise, I don't believe it is truly profitable for them or if it is it is at a very small amount per box. TiVo has always wanted you to keep your current hardware active and not upgrade. This is also why TiVo wants to be a software company rather than a hardware company.
> 
> I don't know how Google is going to eat TiVos lunch. The Google box doesn't have a tuner and instead uses IR blasters like the old series 2. While it may deliver some online content, you won't be using it to record TV. Instead you will be hooking it up so it controls your TiVo and does many of the online functions TiVo already does.
> 
> I agree TiVo has been slow to innovate and part of this leads back to the hardware. This is one of the reason TiVo has repeatedly petitioned the FCC regarding the cost of cablecard hardware since the economy of scale hasn't driven the prices down. If TiVo was able to make a nice amount on hardware sales equal to the amount of what they make on subscriptions, I could see them rolling out new hardware more often in the attempt to get users to upgrade. Until that happens I don't see them doing much other than addressing what they can software wise while only trying to get upgrades every several years or about the time they write-off lifetime accounts.


IR blasters?!?!???

If your description is correct, the google box won't be eating TiVos lunch, breakfast or Dinner.
It sounds more like a big step backwards.


----------



## innocentfreak

aaronwt said:


> IR blasters?!?!???
> 
> If your description is correct, the google box won't be eating TiVos lunch, breakfast or Dinner.
> It sounds more like a big step backwards.


Yeah they discuss the IR blasters in the engadgethd article about the unveiling and with the video showing the demo with the Tivo. As of now IR blasters is how the box will interface with Tivo or the cable box/dvr. The other functionality sound exactly like Tivo searc on the premiere also.

Now of course this could change by launch and maybe they will at least include OTA tuners, but I dont see any other way it could interface with other STB lik TiVo.


----------



## Tony Chick

So how many hundreds of thousands of Premieres are out there that it takes almost a month to roll out a minor point release?. When DirecTV issues a release for my HRs, it takes just a few days.


----------



## DaveWhittle

Tony Chick said:


> So how many hundreds of thousands of Premieres are out there that it takes almost a month to roll out a minor point release?.


I know, right? I almost had a lock-up last night, but I waited it out for about 5 minutes on a black screen and the HD-UI finally came back. For those 5 minutes, I kept thinking "if I had 14.5 I probably wouldn't be staring at this blank screen".  THROW THE SWITCH, PLEASE!

Ironically, the lock-up that almost happened was caused by checking to see if I got the update.


----------



## tomhorsley

Tony Chick said:


> So how many hundreds of thousands of Premieres are out there that it takes almost a month to roll out a minor point release?. When DirecTV issues a release for my HRs, it takes just a few days.


Yea, I sometimes wonder if their server farm consists of 3 desktop PCs in a closet. When I tried to activate my box, the server timed out at the web page where it warns you not to do anything because it is verifying your credit card. What a swell initial impression that was . I had to call customer service to verify I actually had managed to pay for the service and activate the box. Then it took about two or three hours to download and install the initial update (the first attempt failed and I had to start from scratch). Meanwhile the web page at:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/311

says 14.5 is the latest version and if you click on the link to sign up for early testing, it says you can't do that because the software is already fully rolled out. Really? Then why does my tivo still tell me it is running 14.4?


----------



## TrueTurbo

Jees guys, don't you bother reading threads here!? 

TiVo roll-outs of new releases are deliberate, not slow. They roll-out a limited number of updates to a random selection of boxes and then monitor how the roll-out went. Over time, if the software proves to be stable, doesn't cause significant new issues and they don't get any serious support calls regarding the update, they flip the switch and everybody gets the update!

They are still in the limited release/evaluation phase. Have patience. You'll get your update soon. I'm still waiting for mine, also.


----------



## DaveWhittle

TrueTurbo said:


> They are still in the limited release/evaluation phase. Have patience. You'll get your update soon. I'm still waiting for mine, also.


It's easy to be patient on a messageboard. However, when you sit down to eat dinner while watching TV and the thing is locked up, so you pull the plug on the TiVo and eat while staring at "Just a few minutes more..." for ~10 minutes, patience tends to wear thin.

14.5 was spotted in the wild two weeks ago. I haven't seen a single post of any problems with this release, and it would have shown up here if there was.


----------



## tomhorsley

TrueTurbo said:


> Jees guys, don't you bother reading threads here!?


Yea, but then we read the official tivo support pages which say 14.5 is fully rolled out. At least one of those two sources of information is clearly BS .


----------



## CuriousMark

tomhorsley said:


> Yea, but then we read the official tivo support pages which say 14.5 is fully rolled out. At least one of those two sources of information is clearly BS .


"Latest Shipping" does not equal "Fully Rolled out" but I see your point. It certainly implies that roll-out is at least under way.

Usually they don't update that page until they start the full roll-out. When did you first see it updated on that page? If it was today, perhaps that means the full roll-out starts tonight.


----------



## paulnelson20

Was reading through this page (http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/311) and this caught my eye, "To receive the update sooner, make two more manual service connections until "Pending Restart" is displayed as the Last Call Status." under How To Update The Software On Your TiVo DVR. Are they trying to get us to crash their servers with multiple connections from all of us?

Also FWIW, to "tomhorsley" I too clicked on the link and it gave sent me to the page located at "http://research.tivo.com/*932priority*/index.htm"; the key is the "932priority" the series 2 tivos are currently on software version 9.3.2, that is why it says it's currently fully rolled out.


----------



## tomhorsley

CuriousMark said:


> Usually they don't update that page until they start the full roll-out. When did you first see it updated on that page? If it was today, perhaps that means the full roll-out starts tonight.


I'm pretty sure I first found that page at least two days ago, may have been longer.


----------



## caddyroger

paulnelson20 said:


> Was reading through this page (http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/311) and this caught my eye, "To receive the update sooner, make two more manual service connections until "Pending Restart" is displayed as the Last Call Status." under How To Update The Software On Your TiVo DVR. Are they trying to get us to crash their servers with multiple connections from all of us?
> 
> Also FWIW, to "tomhorsley" I too clicked on the link and it gave sent me to the page located at "http://research.tivo.com/*932priority*/index.htm"; the key is the "932priority" the series 2 tivos are currently on software version 9.3.2, that is why it says it's currently fully rolled out.


I did a reconnection 4 times no 14.5 yet. I did not think that would work but did it for the heck of it.


----------



## curiousgeorge

caddyroger said:


> I did a reconnection 4 times no 14.5 yet. I did not think that would work but did it for the heck of it.


That information only applies if they've opened the floodgates to the new release. They obviously HAVEN'T for 14.5. Beta users and chosen "early preview" are the only ones who have it right now. Between us and our neighbors, we have 5 Premieres and none have got it yet.


----------



## caddyroger

curiousgeorge said:


> That information only applies if they've opened the floodgates to the new release. They obviously HAVEN'T for 14.5. Beta users and chosen "early preview" are the only ones who have it right now. Between us and our neighbors, we have 5 Premieres and none have got it yet.


 Yes I know I was letting paulnelson20 know about doing reconnection. They do not unless Tivo turns them on. Some time just one connection will work.


----------



## gamo62

I have never in my life, seen so many people who are jonesing for an update. This is borderline sad.


----------



## curiousgeorge

gamo62 said:


> I have never in my life, seen so many people who are jonesing for an update. This is borderline sad.


I've never had a TiVo this screwed up - ever. And that's going back to the original Day 1 Series 1. I just want it to work at an acceptable level in HD. I'm past having it "wow" me, 'cuz it's crystal clear now, more than three months in that "wow" ain't gonna happen.

I've settled, and now I just want the BARE minimum of speed and stability. I think there are a fair number of people in the same boat. Hence, the jonesing.


----------



## davezatz

Yesterday AM my 14.5 Premiere stopped responding to remote button presses, which is similar to periodic behavior I saw on the prior software builds. I pulled the plug to reboot and restore the remote. Not sure if this is related to the never-ending SDV tuning adapter reboots and/or that I also couldn't connect via TiVoToGo. I told TiVo they could feel free to take a look at my box to track this issue down.


----------



## b_scott

still no 14.5


----------



## ldobson

davezatz said:


> Yesterday AM my 14.5 Premiere stopped responding to remote button presses, which is similar to periodic behavior I saw on the prior software builds. I pulled the plug to reboot and restore the remote. Not sure if this is related to the never-ending SDV tuning adapter reboots and/or that I also couldn't connect via TiVoToGo. I told TiVo they could feel free to take a look at my box to track this issue down.


Did you not try the Thumbs Down->Thumbs Up->Play->Play command? Works every time for me, and I have only had to use it twice.


----------



## timstack8969

Has anyone been receiving 14.5 lately? I have not received it yet.


----------



## DaveWhittle

timstack8969 said:


> Has anyone been receiving 14.5 lately? I have not received it yet.


It seems there was an initial batch two weeks ago, but then no one has reported getting it since.


----------



## TomJHansen

But, on a positive note, I haven't had any huge problems with the HD UI. Maybe it's because I'm connected via ethernet and not Wifi? Also, only have it about 40% full and 80% is SD programming.

Yes, some screens take a few seconds to load, but maybe because I read this forum, my expectations are low?


----------



## curiousgeorge

TomJHansen said:


> But, on a positive note, I haven't had any huge problems with the HD UI. Maybe it's because I'm connected via ethernet and not Wifi? Also, only have it about 40% full and 80% is SD programming.
> 
> Yes, some screens take a few seconds to load, but maybe because I read this forum, my expectations are low?


We have ethernet Cat 5e throughout the house and have the lockups and sluggishness of 14.4 so all three Premieres are on SD menus now. Our internet connection is 10/1, too. Don't think that's the difference.


----------



## tomhorsley

TomJHansen said:


> Yes, some screens take a few seconds to load, but maybe because I read this forum, my expectations are low?


I think it depends on your personal patience level . I never saw anything but the HD menus because the Premiere I just got was the first tivo I ever had. It was indeed far superior to the comcast/scientific atlanta DVR it replaced, but after a while I started wondering how the devil tivo could have such a stellar reputation when the interface was so incredibly sluggish. I started poking around the forums and finally found the threads that talked about the old SD menus being faster. I tried them, and it was like a 16 ton weight was lifted from my tivo viewing experience. The SD menus are so much faster you couldn't pay me to switch back to the supposedly superior HD system (at least not till I have this rumoured 14.5 update installed).

P.S. I'm connected via a hard wired network connection to my router and cable modem, so network speed should not be an issue for me - the HD interface is just horribly horribly slow.


----------



## DeWitt

Posted today on the tivodesign twitter feed:

We are letting is soak on a subset of boxes before releasing more widely. I don't have a complete rollout date yet.


----------



## kturcotte

DeWitt said:


> Posted today on the tivodesign twitter feed:
> 
> We are letting is soak on a subset of boxes before releasing more widely. I don't have a complete rollout date yet.


Let it soak in MY box then lol ;-)


----------



## HellFish

I've had 14.5 since I got my box a couple weeks ago, so I'm not the person to do direct comparisons. However, I have noticed if I unplug my ethernet cable, the HD menus still appear to come up quickly with placeholders where the ads are on the top of the screen. This might be what is making the HD menus quicker - they are not dependent on having the network stuff appear before you can start browsing through the menu.


----------



## DPF

HellFish said:


> I've had 14.5 since I got my box a couple weeks ago, so I'm not the person to do direct comparisons. However, I have noticed if I unplug my ethernet cable, the HD menus still appear to come up quickly with placeholders where the ads are on the top of the screen. This might be what is making the HD menus quicker - they are not dependent on having the network stuff appear before you can start browsing through the menu.


God, I hope this is true. Are you immediately getting the Exclamation Point! and "No Network" message? or have they just gone to placeholders? If I disconnect the network, there's no placeholders just the overkill network missing message. Then it stops you from actually playing recorded content , which is awesome, and kicks you out to the Tivo Central. Then you have to go back in and make sure you press "Play" on recorded content, not "Select" as that will tell you that you can't play content without a network connection. GGGRRRRrrrrrr....


----------



## HellFish

Yes, you immediately get the !No Connection. It sounds similar to what you already have, but I don't see any lags without a network. You can play recorded content, but you cannot "select." The reason it gives not not being able to "select" it is b/c that screen has online content that can't be displayed. 

I get the place holders if I re-connect the unit, then start browsing around. Some ads appear, but others are filled with the place holders until the unit has finished downloading the content.

I haven't tried disconnecting the unit while I'm watching a show, I'll try to try that this weekend and tell you what happens..


----------



## davezatz

davezatz said:


> Yesterday AM my 14.5 Premiere stopped responding to remote button presses, which is similar to periodic behavior I saw on the prior software builds. I pulled the plug to reboot and restore the remote. Not sure if this is related to the never-ending SDV tuning adapter reboots and/or that I also couldn't connect via TiVoToGo. I told TiVo they could feel free to take a look at my box to track this issue down.


So the Premiere stopped responding to the remote again yesterday or Thursday. Instead of rebooting, I yanked out both USB cables. Control returned... and remained after I reattached the cables. Unfortunately, I didn't pull the USB cables one at a time so I'm not sure the device related to the lockup. One USB cable comes from the SDV tuning adapter (which reboots a lot) and one USB cable sends power to a wireless bridge. Hm. Will pass this along to TiVo, Inc.


----------



## joshuamac

I still have not gotten 14.5. I tried updating it myself and even after repeated tries connecting to TiVo I never got the "restart pending" message to show it downloaded. I called and they said they are rolling it out in select areas first and it could take a day or even a week before it would be available to me. I live in NJ. He said they do it this way to see if there are any issues with it. Here's hoping I get it soon. If you cannot get it be patient.


----------



## morac

It does appear that 14.5 is getting a longer vetting than most releases, which is odd since I've heard nothing but praise from those who have received it.


----------



## caddyroger

morac said:


> It does appear that 14.5 is getting a longer vetting than most releases, which is odd since I've heard nothing but praise from those who have received it.


 It took about 3 weeks for me to get 14.4. If that a indication I'll get next week.


----------



## innocentfreak

morac said:


> It does appear that 14.5 is getting a longer vetting than most releases, which is odd since I've heard nothing but praise from those who have received it.


Maybe the survey results weren't as positive as TiVo hoped. There are also the lockups Davezatz had which might be something else they are looking into.

I still wish they would update the UI as individual screens are finished, but I have a feeling we will get one update eventually that adds all the rest of the UI in HD except Amazon, Netflix and Pandora which will all be added one update at a time at a much later time.


----------



## SugarBowl

i got it today.


----------



## curiousgeorge

innocentfreak said:


> Maybe the survey results weren't as positive as TiVo hoped.


That HAS to be a given.

Having used 14.5 now, only an engineering staff in complete denial would send it out to seasoned TiVo users raised on their snappy, classy interface over the past 10 years and hope to get back anything moderately resembling positive response. It's almost as terrible as 14.4. At this rate, it will be 16.0 before we have the bare minimum of functionality and speed we expect when the name "TiVo" is involved. And 16.0 is Christmas 2011, at the earliest, at this rate.


----------



## b_scott

still nothing here.


----------



## turbobozz

curiousgeorge said:


> That HAS to be a given.
> 
> Having used 14.5 now, only an engineering staff in complete denial would send it out to seasoned TiVo users raised on their snappy, classy interface over the past 10 years and hope to get back anything moderately resembling positive response. It's almost as terrible as 14.4. At this rate, it will be 16.0 before we have the bare minimum of functionality and speed we expect when the name "TiVo" is involved. And 16.0 is Christmas 2011, at the earliest, at this rate.


I'm sorry... did you call the S2 and S3 platform snappy???
The only time the "classic" UI has ever been snappy is on the Premiere.

14.5 HDUI, while still not complete, is about as responsive as the "classic" UI on S3.
Sure, it's far from perfect, but I haven't seen spinning circles of death for 15-30s as was common in 14.4 and earlier.


----------



## curiousgeorge

turbobozz said:


> I'm sorry... did you call the S2 and S3 platform snappy???
> The only time the "classic" UI has ever been snappy is on the Premiere.
> 
> 14.5 HDUI, while still not complete, is about as responsive as the "classic" UI on S3.
> Sure, it's far from perfect, but I haven't seen spinning circles of death for 15-30s as was common in 14.4 and earlier.


We must have had different S3 units. My S3s (not THD) were NEVER as laggy as the Premiere HDUI - ever. The only place they sucked was in the Universal Swivel search (or whatever hey renamed it, which I never used). The normal functions were perfectly acceptable. Granted, the S2 got bloated and became slower right before the S3 launched, but it was perfectly fine at launch. And that's the general trajectory - the system bogs down as the unit ages and feature set expands. That's why the Premiere worries me. It is laggy as hell, and unacceptably so, NOW. That doesn't bode well for the future - especially since we're, what, three revs in now and it still is laggy, slow, and crashes? That's never happened in my 10+ year TiVo experience.


----------



## Jimbo713

Have you noticed the font has changed in the SD menus in 14.5k? Not the same look or feel. I don't like it and I'm thinking of switching my HD-TiVo into the living room as my primary TiVo for everyday family use. That will relagate the Premiere to the bedroom.


----------



## innocentfreak

Could you upload some photos of the HD and the Premiere font on the same tv assuming you switch the locations so we can see?


----------



## magnus

Does anyone know when Kidzone will come to the HDUI? I really like that feature.


----------



## Johnwashere

magnus said:


> Does anyone know when Kidzone will come to the HDUI? I really like that feature.


Il check when I get home. Im a few hours from home. But I dont think it will be. I believe tivo right now is trying to get the bugs all worked out for the next few couple months then they will work on other features.


----------



## curiousgeorge

Jimbo713 said:


> Have you noticed the font has changed in the SD menus in 14.5k? Not the same look or feel. I don't like it and I'm thinking of switching my HD-TiVo into the living room as my primary TiVo for everyday family use. That will relagate the Premiere to the bedroom.


On the SD menus? I put up two Premieres one with 14.4 and the one with 14.5 and I don't see the difference. It must be pretty subtle. What is bothering you about it?


----------



## ckelly33

the rollout must be pretty slow. I still don't have 14.5 - alsthough from most accounts here, I shouldn't worry too much about it. 

When you talk about releasing a product too soon, this should be in the voting as the poster child! I bought (like many of you) for speed and HD menus. Only half (or) so menus are HD and my S3 was faster. 

Not any closer to Dual Core either...


----------



## turbobozz

curiousgeorge said:


> We must have had different S3 units. My S3s (not THD) were NEVER as laggy as the Premiere HDUI - ever. The only place they sucked was in the Universal Swivel search (or whatever hey renamed it, which I never used). The normal functions were perfectly acceptable. Granted, the S2 got bloated and became slower right before the S3 launched, but it was perfectly fine at launch. And that's the general trajectory - the system bogs down as the unit ages and feature set expands. That's why the Premiere worries me. It is laggy as hell, and unacceptably so, NOW. That doesn't bode well for the future - especially since we're, what, three revs in now and it still is laggy, slow, and crashes? That's never happened in my 10+ year TiVo experience.


I have an S3, the original $800 version.
S3 performance is acceptable, but I would never call it fast.
Premiere's SDUI is fast.
Premiere HDUI prior to 14.5K1 has been pitiful in general and slower than the S3 in general response feel.
Premiere HDUI w/ 14.5K1 is on par with S3 performance, acceptable.
(Ignoring all other HDUI issues that are just begging to be resolved.)
I agree that the Premiere's starting point is less than stellar, and doesn't give much real hope for future potential beyond a couple years.


----------



## tomhorsley

ckelly33 said:


> When you talk about releasing a product too soon, this should be in the voting as the poster child! I bought (like many of you) for speed and HD menus. Only half (or) so menus are HD and my S3 was faster.


Just for curiosity, what is it that people find appealing about the HD menus? Speed is what I want, I can't see any real difference between SD and HD otherwise.


----------



## ckelly33

tomhorsley said:


> Just for curiosity, what is it that people find appealing about the HD menus? Speed is what I want, I can't see any real difference between SD and HD otherwise.


Honestly, I was happy with having SD menus until HD was choice....sad, I know. Honestly, for me, more than anything else I wanted the live window.

Now that I have a live window, I realize the downsides as well but I still like it.


----------



## turbobozz

tomhorsley said:


> Just for curiosity, what is it that people find appealing about the HD menus? Speed is what I want, I can't see any real difference between SD and HD otherwise.


I personally like the TV window in the menus... I tend to like browsing NPL and doing other stuff in the menus while "watching" something.

There are other nice possibilities in HDUI... like a higher information density on a single screen, broader search, and generally more interconnected menus.
Unfortunately, the speed of the SDUI is so much better that it negates those possibilities for me.

The reasons I use HDUI now that the performance is on par with S3...
I like the TV window.
For some reason I find the ads in HDUI less obtrusive than in SDUI.
4:3 elements in SDUI stretched to 16:9 are a real eyesore for me (although I don't specifically recall if this happens in the Premiere SDUI).


----------



## stevo1569

I got the 14.5 update a few days ago and actually installed it over my slingbox at work- haha...Anyway it hasnt been pleasant for me. The HDUI is still incredibly unusable and the SD menus seem a touch slower than the 14.4 update. Still have NEVER had a random reboot with the premiere. Other than that, there are no more new HD menus (it still switches to SD) , one core still is disabled and currently other boxes are catching up to TiVo...Unless TiVo gets it's act together, they could be seeing some serious compewtition. But as always when I show people at work my TiVo over the sling iphone app they are just as WOWed as ever


----------



## gamo62

stevo1569 said:


> I got the 14.5 update a few days ago and actually installed it over my slingbox at work- haha...Anyway it hasnt been pleasant for me. The HDUI is still incredibly unusable and the SD menus seem a touch slower than the 14.4 update. Still have NEVER had a random reboot with the premiere. Other than that, there are no more new HD menus (it still switches to SD) , one core still is disabled and currently other boxes are catching up to TiVo...Unless TiVo gets it's act together, they could be seeing some serious compewtition. But as always when I show people at work my TiVo over the sling iphone app they are just as WOWed as ever


Just think how much MORE wowed they will be when TiVo finally gets off their collective butts and gets the Premiere working the way they advertised it in the first place!


----------



## crxssi

gamo62 said:


> Just think how much MORE wowed they will be when TiVo finally gets off their collective butts and gets the Premiere working the way they advertised it in the first place!


Even if they did, it would still be missing major things I would have wanted or expected. Including the ability to backup settings, DNLA streaming, more video formats, and web browser. But hey, I am hard to please


----------



## stevo1569

What they need to do next is finalize all these "incremental" speed and performance update and bring one big update out that wraps it all up...Then on to enabling both cores, finally the icing on the cake and get all the menus to HD. Time will tell


----------



## RoyK

stevo1569 said:


> What they need to do next is finalize all these "incremental" speed and performance update and bring one big update out that wraps it all up...Then on to enabling both cores, finally the icing on the cake and get all the menus to HD. Time will tell


Isn't that what gamo62 said just above?


----------



## timstack8969

I had to switch back to SD Tivo Menu. Also have not received 14.5 yet.


----------



## nyctwc

I got 14.5 over the weekend. Interface is definitely much faster for me. Slowest operations have about a 5-10 second (approx.) lag, as opposed to a 10-30 second (approx.) lag on 14.4. Page scrolling through My Programs has a 1-3 second (approx.) lag, as opposed to a 3-10 second (approx.) lag. Sorry my times are approximated, as I never actually timed it. These are my subjective estimated lag times. My Premiere XL is about 75&#37; full. Still some buggy stuff, like programs refusing to delete when I clear them from the menu, and remaining disk space taking several minutes to recalculate properly.


----------



## stevo1569

RoyK said:


> Isn't that what gamo62 said just above?


...no, I just broke it down into more detail.


----------



## Daniel Skeen

After making a number of calls to Tivo, sening emails, tweets, massages and even snail mail still no update. Tried all the tricks that I could find on line and even swung a a black cat over my head at midnight in a graveyard.

Nothing. Still stuck with the old interface.

Oh well it's only been 45 days. It takes a long time to update all of those units out there


----------



## rocko

Daniel Skeen said:


> After making a number of calls to Tivo, sening emails, tweets, massages and even snail mail still no update. Tried all the tricks that I could find on line and even swung a a black cat over my head at midnight in a graveyard.
> 
> Nothing. Still stuck with the old interface.
> 
> Oh well it's only been 45 days. It takes a long time to update all of those units out there


If you're talking about getting 14.5 an email to Margret should work just fine - have you tried that ?


----------



## caddyroger

rocko said:


> If you're talking about getting 14.5 an email to Margret should work just fine - have you tried that ?


 I emailed Margret once last Thursday evening and again Saturday mourning no 14.5 as of 2 pm pdt. So I do not if that will now.


----------



## rocko

caddyroger said:


> I emailed Margret once last Thursday evening and again Saturday mourning no 14.5 as of 2 pm pdt. So I do not if that will now.


Odd - she might only be getting to her email now. I just recieved a reply not long ago from my thank you note. As you can see I asked on Thursday morning, got it Thursday night, thanked her on Saturday afternoon and got her reply today ....


----------



## Daniel Skeen

rocko said:


> If you're talking about getting 14.5 an email to Margret should work just fine - have you tried that ?


YUP. About a week ago, nada.


----------



## rocko

Daniel Skeen said:


> YUP. About a week ago, nada.


You and Roger seem to be having the same issue - maybe you emails are dropping into her spam bucket ? I'd try again with a politlely worded followup.


----------



## TrueTurbo

rocko said:


> You and Roger seem to be having the same issue - maybe you emails are dropping into her spam bucket ? I'd try again with a politlely worded followup.


Also, check and double check that the TSN you include in the e-mail matches your TiVo. They can't update your TiVo if the TSN is incorrect.


----------



## Daniel Skeen

TrueTurbo said:


> Also, check and double check that the TSN you include in the e-mail matches your TiVo. They can't update your TiVo if the TSN is incorrect.


They have my number


----------



## TrueTurbo

Daniel Skeen said:


> They have my number


I think they just hate you then! 

I e-mailed my TSN and cable operator info to Margaret late one afternoon and by the following afternoon, I had a 'Pending Restart' message on my Premiere XL. My XL has been snappier since updating to 14.5. Didn't have any lock-ups or stability issues before the update so I can't say if 14.5 is any better in that respect.


----------



## caddyroger

TrueTurbo said:


> Also, check and double check that the TSN you include in the e-mail matches your TiVo. They can't update your TiVo if the TSN is incorrect.


 I copied and past the tsn number and comcast and the county as my provider and email. With copying and past it should be correct.


----------



## Daniel Skeen

TrueTurbo said:


> I think they just hate you then!
> 
> I e-mailed my TSN and cable operator info to Margaret late one afternoon and by the following afternoon, I had a 'Pending Restart' message on my Premiere XL. My XL has been snappier since updating to 14.5. Didn't have any lock-ups or stability issues before the update so I can't say if 14.5 is any better in that respect.


I'm beginning to think you might be right.


----------



## rsnaider

No luck for me, I e-mailed her last week and still on 14.4, oh-well.


----------



## Daniel Skeen

What makes this all the worse is that the CSR for Tivo today that they may skip over most people for the 14.5k update and go to a fix that may be four to five months out. Might be tomorrow or in five months, maybe, he said.

All I want is to get this thing to work with the HD so my wife will be happy. When she's happy I'm happy


----------



## TrueTurbo

Daniel Skeen said:


> All I want is to get this thing to work with the HD so my wife will be happy. When she's happy I'm happy


All we want is for you to return the TiVo or sell it to someone else! Then you'll be happy and we'll be happy and you won't need to vomit your dissatisfaction into every forum thread available!


----------



## Daniel Skeen

TrueTurbo said:


> All we want is for you to return the TiVo or sell it to someone else! Then you'll be happy and we'll be happy and you won't need to vomit your dissatisfaction into every forum thread available!


Humm..can't return it, no one want to buy it (too well known for the problems) and Tivo won't fix it. So here we are.

Can anyone fix my Tivo XL? Do you have a real fix Sir Turbo?


----------



## TrueTurbo

Daniel Skeen said:


> Humm..can't return it, no one want to buy it (too well known for the problems) and Tivo won't fix it. So here we are.
> 
> Can anyone fix my Tivo XL? Do you have a real fix Sir Turbo?


I honestly wish I did have a fix for you! If it keeps locking up and rebooting, it is damaged in some way and TiVo support should help you. If they don't replace it, start contacting consumer rights groups and threaten TiVo until they do.

Failing all this, on the chance that the problem may be related to the hard drive, you can always try installing a larger drive from one of the companies that are offering them now. After all, if TiVo won't fix it, you have no warranty worth anything anyway.


----------



## TiVoMargret

You guys did a good job overwhelming my inbox! 

We have just made the 14.5 software update available to all TiVo Premieres. (With the exception of a few specific Cablevision headends where we are still troubleshooting a problem.)

Enjoy!
--Margret


----------



## caddyroger

TiVoMargret said:


> You guys did a good job overwhelming my inbox!
> 
> We have just made the 14.5 software update available to all TiVo Premieres. (With the exception of a few specific Cablevision headends where we are still troubleshooting a problem.)
> 
> Enjoy!
> --Margret


Mine is doing the update now. Looks like I'll have use the Comcast box If it take it past 9 pm. 
Thanks for helping every one out with this.


----------



## caddyroger

My take on the 14.5 update. It runs faster now so I probably keep on the HDUI but it could be faster. Maybe the next update it will run like it should.


----------



## gamo62

TrueTurbo said:


> All we want is for you to return the TiVo or sell it to someone else! Then you'll be happy and we'll be happy and you won't need to vomit your dissatisfaction into every forum thread available!


Well, I sent mine back, and will wait patiently until they get the crap ironed out. No need to pay for a product that is essentially still in beta. "Windows" was one thing. But shelling out up to $700 to be part of the "elite"? Not for me.


----------



## orangeboy

Daniel Skeen said:


> Humm..can't return it, no one want to buy it (too well known for the problems) and Tivo won't fix it. So here we are.
> 
> Can anyone fix my Tivo XL? Do you have a real fix Sir Turbo?


I believe your credibility is running thin. There's some part of the story that you're leaving out. If you are under 90 days since the date of purchase, TiVo will replace the unit at no cost to you. If it's past 90 days and less than 1 year, you are responsible for labor and shipping costs.

25 negative posts in one day seems pretty trollish...


----------



## b_scott

still no 14.5 here. I don't think I tried connecting after Tivo Margaret's post though.


----------



## shaown

Amusing, I am on one of those Cablevision Headends apparently.
BUT
one of my Premiere's has it, and the other doesn't lol
-Shaown


----------



## DeWitt

Margret is a woman of her word. I forced a connection on both my boxes right after her posting. Both got the update. No K, just 14.5


----------



## badguitar

TrueTurbo said:


> I e-mailed my TSN and cable operator info to Margaret late one afternoon and by the following afternoon, I had a 'Pending Restart' message on my Premiere XL.


I sent her my serial# and 24 hours later I also had Pending Restart. She is very responsive. I'll let it restart tonight since it takes so long to load. Results TBD.


----------



## Daniel Skeen

TiVoMargret said:


> You guys did a good job overwhelming my inbox!
> 
> We have just made the 14.5 software update available to all TiVo Premieres. (With the exception of a few specific Cablevision headends where we are still troubleshooting a problem.)
> 
> Enjoy!
> --Margret


Thanks! Seems to be a HUGE improvement! Even YouTube works!


----------



## timstack8969

Finally got the "Pending Restart" this afternoon. Now it's been stuck on "Preparing the service update...This may take up to an hour, possibly longer" Screen hasn't changed for 30 minutes now.


----------



## timstack8969

My software version is: 14.501-3-748 Now I will switch back to HD Menu's


----------



## caddyroger

timstack8969 said:


> Finally got the "Pending Restart" this afternoon. Now it's been stuck on "Preparing the service update...This may take up to an hour, possibly longer" Screen hasn't changed for 30 minutes now.


never mind missed the the second post


----------



## tomhorsley

I was fortunate enough to have the pending up this morning, so I restarted it before I left for work and it had all day to actually apply the update (no idea how long it took, but I know the initial 14.4 update I got when I bought it took about 2 or 3 hours).

It now says 14.5 (no K on the end) and I've switched back to HD menus to see how I like them. So far, they seem a bit more responsive. Certainly deleting a program no longer takes up to 30 seconds, and that was one of the more glaring problems I noticed before (since it shouldn't need to lookup anything on the internet just to delete a program .


----------



## caddyroger

tomhorsley said:


> I was fortunate enough to have the pending up this morning, so I restarted it before I left for work and it had all day to actually apply the update (no idea how long it took, but I know the initial 14.4 update I got when I bought it took about 2 or 3 hours).
> 
> It now says 14.5 (no K on the end) and I've switched back to HD menus to see how I like them. So far, they seem a bit more responsive. Certainly deleting a program no longer takes up to 30 seconds, and that was one of the more glaring problems I noticed before (since it shouldn't need to lookup anything on the internet just to delete a program .


It took about an hour from start of connection to back to tivo central to update my tivo. It is way faster then 14.4. It still could be a little faster but acceptable.


----------



## b_scott

got home and noticed I have 14.5 now


----------



## mully

forced an update and it said I could not connect do to a scheduled update at 2 am


----------



## mooneb75

we got the update today as well - full load after reboot was under an hour for me. I am definitely happy with the improvements. I am really liking the Premiere as is my wife.

One thing that struck me as hilarious was the wording on screen during the update, "This may take up to an hour, possibly longer..." Up to an hour - that seems like it owuld be the tops, right? Nope - maybe longer... LOL. Why not say, "this might take over an hour." LOL.


----------



## rbeauch

I must be on one of those Cablevison headends with a problem but I got the 14.5 upgrade and it killed my Cisco Tuning Adapter.


----------



## DaveWhittle

rbeauch said:


> I must be on one of those Cablevison headends with a problem but I got the 14.5 upgrade and it killed my Cisco Tuning Adapter.




I wondered why such slow roll-out for a software update... now I know.


----------



## eddieb187

It's been over 4 months since the Premiere was released and half the interface in still in SD. The transition between the two is abrupt to say the least. 
They really have not done much beyond improving the HD menu speed.
For the first time since receiving my Premiere XL I'm able to use the HD interface and not get annoyed and have to switch back to the SD menus.
Video Output issue still not fixed. A pain if you use multiple displays.
One other issue they need to fix is when playing back a recorded program I used to press the left arrow to stop playback and go to TiVo Central as with TiVo HD. 
Now left arrow brings you to TiVo Central but playback continues in the Video Window. 
I would rather it stopped. LiveTV is the only way to stop playback of a recording now.
If you disable the Video Window playback does stop as before though.
The update is definately an improvement but too little too late.
They need to hire more software developers.


----------



## andrewl570

I updated to 14.5 last night. I do notice that the HDUI is a little faster. Also, the video window is improved in that it doesn't pause as much when you go from watching live tv to the HDUI. The pause was very bad before and now it is tolerable. I was really thinking that this Tivo would be a bust, but I think they will update it enough and it will be a very good product. I feel like they released premiere 2 years before they made a full product.


----------



## badguitar

I have been using the SD menus since I received the XL because of menu speeds. I upgraded from a series 2 so I was used to the SD menus and the big difference was faster menus and NetFlix streaming, and of course, HD recording. Now that I have 14.5, the HD menus are fast enough to use. But it's been so long since I bought it... I'm forgetting why the HD menus matter.

Could someone please tell me what I get with the HD menus that I didn't get with SD? The Live window is likely the biggest feature. Other than that, I have not found a real reason to keep with the HD menus. Eye candy menus don't matter to me - I just want to watch the recorded shows.

Thanks.


----------



## Rastven

Still nothing despite a forced connect this morning. I guess I'm on one of the CV headends that isn't seeing it yet.


----------



## badguitar

Well, now that I have had 14.5 for less than 12 hours - I'm back to SD menus. I was okay with the HD menus. But when I selected a show to watch (a core function and reason for buying TiVo) it said I could not watch the show because my connection had failed! Tried a few times - same message. My TiVo is hard-wired to a new Netgear N300 router. My PC on the same router had a connection. Anyway, I changed to SD and watched the show (Curb your Enthusiasm).

Thirty minutes later I tried to connect to the server via the SD menu. No problem. 

I really don't see the value in the HD menus anyway so I'll stick with my very fast SD menus. Still glad I have the XL because I upgraded from a Series 2 and I love the HD recording.

Just my experience. Premiere XL with SD menus is still a great machine.


----------



## DeWitt

I am just comparing myself. I have 2 Premieres. Previously I kept both in SD menus. After a quick review with 14.5 it seems stable/fast enough to justify reevaluating the HD Menus. So for now I am keeping one in SD and one in HD to get a good side by side compare.


----------



## crxssi

badguitar said:


> Could someone please tell me what I get with the HD menus that I didn't get with SD?


Distracting banners that will probably eventually turn into even more distracting animated stuff?


----------



## ltxi

crxssi said:


> Distracting banners that will probably eventually turn into even more distracting animated stuff?


Pretty much my view of it as well.


----------



## TrueTurbo

If you don't see what the HD menus offer above the SD menus, you aren't even trying! Just stick to the SD menus and be happy.


----------



## crxssi

TrueTurbo said:


> If you don't see what the HD menus offer above the SD menus, you aren't even trying! Just stick to the SD menus and be happy.


I wish there was just a higher res version of the SD menus- same stuff but with correct font aspect ratios and a smaller font. I bet that would have been relatively easy. To me, the SD menus just look strange on a 52" HDTV (plus waste tons of valuable space that could hold more info, like longer lists for less scrolling).


----------



## tomhorsley

badguitar said:


> But when I selected a show to watch (a core function and reason for buying TiVo) it said I could not watch the show because my connection had failed!


Yea, I've run into that too, but I think it only happens if you hit the select button to go into the next level screen with the details on that individual show. If you just press the Play button, it will start playing the show and bypass that 2nd screen.


----------



## jsmeeker

My Premiere now has 14.5 (14.5-01-3-746 to be exact)


----------



## TivoInNY

My Premiere also just got 14.5 in the last 24 hours. No emails to Margaret or anything, so the rollout continues, albeit slowly, it appears.

As for performance as a result of the upgrade, I'd say disappointing. Marginally faster than 14.4 at best. I like the HD menus a lot, but they're still way too slow to consider "acceptable" for me.


----------



## ckelly33

TivoInNY said:


> My Premiere also just got 14.5 in the last 24 hours. No emails to Margaret or anything, so the rollout continues, albeit slowly, it appears.
> 
> As for performance as a result of the upgrade, I'd say disappointing. Marginally faster than 14.4 at best. I like the HD menus a lot, but they're still way too slow to consider "acceptable" for me.


I think they have stepped up the pace of the rollout. I have three Premiere's that had 14.4 yesterday and have 14.5 (no K) today.

.....I don't see much difference though.


----------



## DPF

Yes, the full blown roll out seems to be in effect. My Premiere got 14.5 night before last and was running it yesterday when I got home.

From my limited exposure last night, I'm awful pleased with an update that actually improves things. It seems the network calls have been re-arranged and at least some small amount of caching is happening. The Discovery Bar is fully packed as soon as I go to TiVo Central and into Now Playing. Loads very fast. Does not hold up the populating of the menus.

So far, and this may be more due to the reboot itself, there is little lag when I drill down from say now playing into a series folder. Pre-14.5 it would green circle for a couple seconds, then populate. It's vastly improved now. No green circle, a fraction of a second pause and then it populates. We'll see if this keeps up after running for a few days.

I'm pretty happy so far with this update. If there aren't dramatic changes in performance as I gain distance from the re-boot, I'll be very happy.

-DPF


----------



## jsmeeker

DPF said:


> From my limited exposure last night, I'm awful pleased with an update that actually improves things. It seems the network calls have been re-arranged and at least some small amount of caching is happening. The Discovery Bar is fully packed as soon as I go to TiVo Central and into Now Playing. Loads very fast. Does not hold up the populating of the menus.


This is my experience, too. I'm pretty happy with this upgrade so far.


----------



## nyctwc

I see that people have been receiving 14.5 without the K1. What's the difference between 14.5 and 14.5K1?


----------



## morac

nyctwc said:


> I see that people have been receiving 14.5 without the K1. What's the difference between 14.5 and 14.5K1?


Two characters. 

Really, there should be no difference other than the version name.

TiVo normally ships out a release candidate software build to a bunch of random people to judge the reaction to the new software. These releases have a letter and number at the end (actual releases can end in a letter (11.0h) or a number (14.5) but not both (14.5K1)).

If all goes well they drop the letter and number from the version and push out the software to everyone.


----------



## tomhorsley

I just noticed that scrolling through > 1 page long lists of programs still has a somewhat inexplicable delay when you hit the end of one page and it wants to go to the next, but most of the delays do seem to be improved.


----------



## jmatero

I think the 2 main (and welcomed) things I noticed with this update are:

1. When you press the tivo button to get back to the "main menu" the upper ad boxes are displayed from cached data (they don't refresh.. appear instantly)

2. When moving from HD to non-HD menus, the transition is MUCH quicker.


----------



## Tony Chick

Still a several second delay with no sound or picture when going from full screen to the menu with preview window. This should be seemless, it should be nothing more than changing the display port boundaries for the video window and audio shouldn't be affected. I suspect they are loading up a flash player rather than just playing games with x,y,w,h settings.


----------



## FrankNJ

I've read about how the upgrade to 14.5 seems to be hitting a whole lot of people by now but I still haven't gotten the update on my Premiere XL (hooked up via ethernet/WIFI). Any reason why or are they still rolling it out in phases?


----------



## shaown

Frank - are you on Cablevision? If so that is the reason.


----------



## jterwelp

Jimbo713 said:


> Have you noticed the font has changed in the SD menus in 14.5k? Not the same look or feel. I don't like it and I'm thinking of switching my HD-TiVo into the living room as my primary TiVo for everyday family use. That will relagate the Premiere to the bedroom.


I noticed the same thing when I got the 14.5 update earlier this week. To me, it looks like they increased the font weighting to an almost *bold* level and the result is that all of the characters are slightly larger without a corresponding increase in the amount of space between them. The net result is that text now looks squished together and blurry to me.

The Premiere is my only active TiVo so I'm unable to take any comparison photos. Is anyone else bothered by the subtle font change in 14.5?


----------



## cmeinck

I have two Premieres coming on Monday. Is it possible to update before Verizon arrives with M cards and if so, is that recommended?


----------



## DaveWhittle

cmeinck said:


> I have two Premieres coming on Monday. Is it possible to update before Verizon arrives with M cards and if so, is that recommended?


Highly recommended.

Before the Verizon installer comes (the sooner, the better), set up the Premieres for Cablecard and select the option to install Cablecard at a later time.


----------



## Rastven

Turns out we have 14.5K on our Premiere but not our PXL. We are on CV so I find it rather odd that the headend is still holding up the rollout.


----------



## shaown

Same - on Cablevision my Premiere has 14.5K1, but my PXL is still on 14.4

-Shaown


----------



## NiTE

> IMPORTANT: The 14.5 software release for Premiere and Premiere XL boxes clears the cached channel map, so boxes that were able to function previously may start to display "Please wait Acquiring channel information" as soon as they reboot after installing the software update.


I don't want 14.5. My tuning adaptor will cause my premiere to die.

My new series 3 won't even get past this screen with my cisco adaptor.



> This issue becomes apparent when you connect the Tuning Adapter to a new or replacement TiVo box, which does not have an existing copy of a channel map stored on its hard disk. It can also happen on a TiVo box where the channel map copy is deleted from its hard disk by a Clear & Delete Everything command or by a software update that erases the copy.


I have cablevsion, perhaps thats why we didn't get it yet


----------



## NiTE

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8087348&posted=1#post8087348


----------



## b_scott

my wife left the XL on the Tivo Menu, had a bath, came back and it was black screen. My macbook shows that it's still recording two programs, and the lights on the front light up when i press buttons, but nothing will show on the screen. I've changed inputs, turned everything on and off (besides the Tivo) and nothing works. I feel like this has happened at least once before. Do the new Premieres have HDCP issues or something? This is maddening. I paid $700 for this thing.


----------



## nataylor

b_scott said:


> my wife left the XL on the Tivo Menu, had a bath, came back and it was black screen. My macbook shows that it's still recording two programs, and the lights on the front light up when i press buttons, but nothing will show on the screen. I've changed inputs, turned everything on and off (besides the Tivo) and nothing works. I feel like this has happened at least once before. Do the new Premieres have HDCP issues or something? This is maddening. I paid $700 for this thing.


Try pressing the slow button on the remote. It might be an issue with the video window, and this button temporarily disables it in the menus.


----------



## b_scott

video window is turned off on both of my Tivos, always.


----------



## sehale

This morning I saw a "pending restart" on my Premiere XL. After the reboot, I went from 14.5K, to 14.5 (no K). I didn't think there was supposed to be a difference besides the timing of the release?


----------



## morac

sehale said:


> This morning I saw a "pending restart" on my Premiere XL. After the reboot, I went from 14.5K, to 14.5 (no K). I didn't think there was supposed to be a difference besides the timing of the release?


Normally there is no difference between the prerelease and release versions, but when they release the release version it gets sent to everyone including those who have the prerelease version.


----------



## nataylor

Well, there is one difference. The displayed version number doesn't have a letter in it.


----------



## timstack8969

Has everyone finally received 14.5? Also now since having 14.5 for about 2 weeks seems to be a little better but now I also notice that when I press the TIVO button my internet doesn't connect all the time. ON the TIVO central main page Im getting a message with BIG yellow exclamation point that say's "Can not connect to tivo - No internet connection for the boxes above the words "Tivo Central" sometimes.


----------



## Dreamin

timstack8969 said:


> Has everyone finally received 14.5?


I got 14.5-01-3-746 this morning; I had been on 14.5.K1-01-3-746 since mid July.

Flash Player Version & HD Menu Software Version numbers are identical between the two software loads.


----------



## mriman

timstack8969 said:


> Im getting a message with BIG yellow exclamation point that say's "Can not connect to tivo - No internet connection for the boxes above the words "Tivo Central" sometimes.


I have had 14.5 for a couple weeks now also, Today- the Internet message came up for the first time and recurred about three or four times within the half hour.

I am connected via Ethernet


----------



## moolman

I've also just got the new system update. Was on the 14.5 K1 for the past month.

Tivo customer service really pisses me off. Still gets me mad when I think about all the trouble they gave me before the 14.5 update. Saying I had to get an attenuator and line filter. Making me do all this crap when they knew all along the Tivo was unstable. So for after the 14.5 update a month ago. Not a single crash. It was crashing 2 times a day before then or at least when ever you fast forward during a show.


----------



## tjm000

So I was watching a preseason football game last night and noticed that the fast forward was basically the same speed as normal play. I had been on the beta for 14.5 but was recently upgraded to the formal 14.5 release. I don't recall seeing this behavior last weekend while watching a game. 

Is there a way to adjust the fast forward speed? A quick scan of the settings menu didn't turn up anything. (I'm a new owner of a TIVO so I'm not as familiar with all of the options.)

Has anyone else noticed this, or is it just my machine? (or is it just me!)


----------



## kabuki104

Well awesome. I got the new software update last night for my Premier, and now I no longer have the HDUI. I don't even have the option for turning the HDUI back on! In the system information menu, it's specifically states that my box is "capable", but the option is not available.

Tivo, could you get your act together please? I'm starting to regret coming back to you.


----------



## morac

tjm000 said:


> So I was watching a preseason football game last night and noticed that the fast forward was basically the same speed as normal play. I had been on the beta for 14.5 but was recently upgraded to the formal 14.5 release. I don't recall seeing this behavior last weekend while watching a game.


Did all three fast forwards (1x, 2x, 3x) playback at normal speed? I've heard of 1x playing back at normal speed when the video stream is corrupted (or horribly compressed by your cable company), but never all three not working.



kabuki104 said:


> Well awesome. I got the new software update last night for my Premier, and now I no longer have the HDUI. I don't even have the option for turning the HDUI back on! In the system information menu, it's specifically states that my box is "capable", but the option is not available.


In order to be able to select the HD menus the following must all be true:
1. The TV aspect ratio setting must be: 16x9 or 4:3 (smart)
2. 720p and/or 1080i must be selected as an output format.
3. The box must be set up to use the network connection.

If any of the above is false, then it won't let you use HD menus.


----------



## kabuki104

morac said:


> In order to be able to select the HD menus the following must all be true:
> 1. The TV aspect ratio setting must be: 16x9 or 4:3 (smart)
> 2. 720p and/or 1080i must be selected as an output format.
> 3. The box must be set up to use the network connection.
> 
> If any of the above is false, then it won't let you use HD menus.


Ah, the video output format had been changed to the default with the update I suppose. Very odd, but it's back to the way I had set it. Thank you very much!


----------



## tjm000

morac said:


> Did all three fast forwards (1x, 2x, 3x) playback at normal speed? I've heard of 1x playing back at normal speed when the video stream is corrupted (or horribly compressed by your cable company), but never all three not working.


Just the 1x played back at normal speed. The 2X, 3X were fast(er) as expected, but a little too fast for skipping ahead to the next play.


----------



## sehale

tjm000 said:


> Just the 1x played back at normal speed. The 2X, 3X were fast(er) as expected, but a little too fast for skipping ahead to the next play.


I have found that 1x FF looks like normal speed on certain HD programs - especially sports ones. Not much help but it has been like that for me since I got my Premiere - no changes with all of the updates. I remember this situation "catching up" on the Superbowl this year.


----------



## robm15

i had problems after the upgrade from 14.5k to 14.5 too. the video was black on both tuners. after pulling the plug and doing a cold reboot it started working fine again.


----------



## gespears

I have read this entire thread and man it seems like all these issues (except the rebooting) are relatively minor compared to the horrible experience we had when the Series 3 and HD came out. There were months that the pixelating screen, screen freezes, reboots, lockups, etc. were so bad you could not even watch TV. Especially with the SA cable cards. I bought a very early S3 for my father and a HD for myself. It was a nightmare for months. They are now working reasonably well but at the time we were ready to throw the units at the TiVo people.

Perspective.

I'm just saying!


----------



## crxssi

sehale said:


> I have found that 1x FF looks like normal speed on certain HD programs - especially sports ones. Not much help but it has been like that for me since I got my Premiere - no changes with all of the updates. I remember this situation "catching up" on the Superbowl this year.


On my HD, any program I transfer from the Linux desktop to the TiVo and play back does that.... 1x FF is just normal speed without any audio. I have to go to 2x FF before it starts to FF. I wonder if it is somehow related.


----------



## morac

crxssi said:


> Om my HD, any program I transfer from the Linux desktop to the TiVo and play back does that.... 1x FF is just normal speed without any audio. I have to go to 2x FF before it starts to FF. I wonder if it is somehow related.


It's likely the format of the video. Fast forwarding on the TiVo looks for key frames in the video, if they are missing problems will occur when fast forwarding or rewinding.


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> It's likely the format of the video. Fast forwarding on the TiVo looks for key frames in the video, if they are missing problems will occur when fast forwarding or rewinding.


Very good point/observation


----------



## curiousgeorge

gespears said:


> I have read this entire thread and man it seems like all these issues (except the rebooting) are relatively minor compared to the horrible experience we had when the Series 3 and HD came out. There were months that the pixelating screen, screen freezes, reboots, lockups, etc. were so bad you could not even watch TV. Especially with the SA cable cards. I bought a very early S3 for my father and a HD for myself. It was a nightmare for months. They are now working reasonably well but at the time we were ready to throw the units at the TiVo people.
> 
> Perspective.
> 
> I'm just saying!


I suffered through that, too (x 3 units). Premiere's problems are worse - much worse.


----------



## aaronwt

gespears said:


> I have read this entire thread and man it seems like all these issues (except the rebooting) are relatively minor compared to the horrible experience we had when the Series 3 and HD came out. There were months that the pixelating screen, screen freezes, reboots, lockups, etc. were so bad you could not even watch TV. Especially with the SA cable cards. I bought a very early S3 for my father and a HD for myself. It was a nightmare for months. They are now working reasonably well but at the time we were ready to throw the units at the TiVo people.
> 
> Perspective.
> 
> I'm just saying!


I never had any of those problems with my three Series 3 boxes I got in 2006 and I also had six scientific Atlanta Cable Cards with Comcast. I did have some pixelation issues with a TiVoHD box I got in Summer 2007 with Comcast, but an attenuator fixed it. Plus I switched to FiOS soon after so I didn't have those issues needing an attenuator on my TiVoHD with my FiOS setup.

But otherwise the S3 and TiVoHD units worked fine for me. Just like the Premiere boxes.


----------



## b_scott

my netflix stopped working on my XL with 14.5. I can click on a movie/show, but then it just kicks me back to My Shows.


----------



## Dodge DeBoulet

b_scott said:


> my netflix stopped working on my XL with 14.5. I can click on a movie/show, but then it just kicks me back to My Shows.


Working fine with 14.5 on my XL, so it must be something specific to your unit.


----------



## Gregor

b_scott said:


> my netflix stopped working on my XL with 14.5. I can click on a movie/show, but then it just kicks me back to My Shows.


I would try rebooting.


----------



## b_scott

yeah i rebooted and it worked.

I've had more issues with 14.5 than any other build.


----------

