# La Brea (NBC) Season Thread *spoilers*



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

_"An epic adventure begins when a massive sinkhole opens in the middle of Los Angeles, pulling hundreds of people and buildings into its depths. Within the sinkhole appears to be a rift in time and/or space. Those who fell in find themselves in a mysterious and dangerous primeval land, where they have no choice but to band together to survive. The show follows one family, broken up by the events, trying to get back together."_

Season thread for *La Brea*, new series on NBC.


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## rloper (Mar 25, 2002)

It was trying very hard to start like Lost. It may end up more like the 2011 show Terra Nova. Which didn’t last very long.

Ah well…at least NBC is trying new Sci-Fi.

It had some interesting ideas. Coming back seemingly 20000 years or so gives us interesting megafauna and primitive (maybe) humans. And the stable ‘time rift’ gives us the link back home. And the rescue missions shown in the trailer.

So I’ll keep watching for at least a few more episodes.


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## dwells (Nov 3, 2001)

rloper said:


> It was trying very hard to start like Lost. It may end up more like the 2011 show Terra Nova. Which didn't last very long.
> 
> Ah well&#8230;at least NBC is trying new Sci-Fi.
> 
> ...


We will probably give it a try, but the reviews have been absolutely horrible, almost unanimously so....


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

Aww, man! They killed the Petersen.

--Carlos "Not the vault!" V.


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## lambertman (Dec 21, 2002)

Definitely something we've seen done before, but it wasn't bad. In our house, we have no Tuesday night shows at all right now, so we'll stick with it for a bit.

Always enjoy having Natalie Zea on my screen.

PS - and my wife and I just visited the tar pits last month on vacation, so it was fun comparing the overhead shots to google images and seeing everything we'd visited in the area that was gone


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I haven't watched yet as baseball has really cut into my viewing time right now, but this is one of the few I was looking forward to, but as I said in another thread, this is likely to be like many similar shows, start out good and wind up being silly and stupid with the writers having to figure out how to write enough material to fill a whole season (or seasons) if it lasts that long. But hey, I'm a sucker for these types of shows for no other reason that it's different than the dozens of cop, law, and medical shows, not to mention reality stuff too.


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

dwells said:


> We will probably give it a try, but the reviews have been absolutely horrible, almost unanimously so....


To me, that is a positive thing! Virtually everything the critics like, I don't.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Interested, but not watched yet. A couple of my LOST friends got me interested before the pilot but have been quiet since then. I will sit down this weekend and take a look.


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## dwells (Nov 3, 2001)

lparsons21 said:


> To me, that is a positive thing! Virtually everything the critics like, I don't.


I normally agree with that completely- but just go take a look at some of the reviews- some of the most brutal I've ever seen- lol

It is 0% on RT- albeit not a ton of reviews. And all of the user ratings are 1 star. And it's 5.2 on IMDB-

So it's not just the critics who are panning it- But that definitely will not stop me from at least trying it out- in fact it makes me want to try it even more- lol


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

So it's kinda like Lost, but instead of a plane crash, it's a sink hole, and instead of an island, it's, er, prehistoric times? Say what you will about Lost (I bailed after three seasons), at least the individual episodes were well-written and interesting and the acting was excellent. Here the writing sucks and most of the acting also sucks.

Not that any of that matters. It'll be cancelled soon enough.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

High hopes. Dashed.

And not that I expected the budget to be there to do so, it was rather disappointing we saw very little in the way of the debris from the taller skyscrapers we saw fall from up top. Some cars, that building wrapped in the winding strap/.exterior, an ambulance, a bus... full focus on what was on the street rather than the surrounding land for the most part. I'll allow they'll find some way to explain people not being smeared splats on the ground, though expect they'll be inconsistent with people who were inside other things.

It'd be more fun if the secret government project accidentally did this under a certain private resort area in the Palm Beaches, and as we were shown its collapse into a sinkhole, it cut to the operator of the secret government project with a snarky look on his face saying "oops" to himself, THEN we cut to it happening in LA, too, unexpectedly.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

dswallow said:


> Some cars, that building wrapped in the winding strap/.exterior,


Petersen Automotive Museum

Across the street from the Petersen is LACMA and the AMPAS Museum. All 3 are about 4 short-blocks west of the Tar Pits park/museum. (Well, LACMA shares a boundary with the Tar Pits park)

And stuck to all the light poles at that intersection are the little lapel stickers all 3 museums use to indicate a visitor has paid admission because the first thing a lot of folks do when they leave is rip it off their lapels/shirts and stick them to the first thing they see.

--Carlos "The the tar tar pits" V.

(edit: To explain the "nickname", "La Brea" is Spanish for "The Tar". So "The La Brea Tar Pits" expands to "The 'The Tar' Tar Pits")


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I channel surfed for about 90 seconds last night, and noticed this show was on. Wondered if it was about the tar pit. Tuned in for like 5 seconds. It was going to commercial break, and all I really saw was this huge hole in the middle of a city. Wondered what the heck was going on.

I see it is on Peacock. I think I'll give the first episode a watch, even though people in here say reviews are bad.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Ya this show fell into my sinkhole 
1 and done


Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

"Are we in an episode of Lost?"

This show is what happens when you put every sci-fi show NBC, ABC, and CBS has thrown against the wall since Lost to see if it would stick into one badly written hour.

"Your plan crashed because you claimed to have visions."

Now let's proceed to remake the opening sequence to Lost...

"How do you know this?"
"It doesn't matter."

Is the pandemic over yet?


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

That was ... mediocre.


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## KDeFlane (Jan 29, 2014)

i might save this for next week when i have two episodes before making a ruling. I really don't want another LOST. (I loved LOST but think that kind of obsessive viewing will never be seen again.) I did like Terra Nova, but it was light family fun. I am prepared for this one to turn too dark too quickly.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

We are torn between wanting to turn it off and wanting to see how they deal with things. The only actor I like is Natalie Zea.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

That was terrible, but I can watch Natalie Zea all day. I'll give it at least one more episode.


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## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

For a new series, this was weak! I was really expecting better. Ill give it a few more episodes to see if it'll stay.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

The nearest thing to a compliment we could come up with after we watched it was, "Well, it wasn't quite as bad as we thought it would be."


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The biggest problem for me is that the father, which will clearly have a huge role, is a terrible actor. Why can't they spend the $$ to get someone with some abilities for that role?

Every minute he was on the screen I didn't believe anything he did or said was real.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

madscientist said:


> The biggest problem for me is that the father, which will clearly have a huge role, is a terrible actor. Why can't they spend the $$ to get someone with some abilities for that role?
> 
> Every minute he was on the screen I didn't believe anything he did or said was real.


Sometimes even the best actor in the world can't help a poor script and a director unwilling to correct it.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I was immediately reminded of "The Crack in Amy's wall" from Dr Who.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

The best I can say for this is that it's great fodder for snide MS3K type jokes. My son and I watched and couldn't help ourselves We'll give it another shot, just because the premise is decent and the strange creatures (albeit terrible CGI) could be fun. Otherwise it kind of reminded us of those terrible 1950s Sci Fi B movies.


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

They only shot a 10 episode season so you can suffer through 9 more if bad TV is your thing.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Mike Lang said:


> They only shot a 10 episode season so you can suffer through 9 more if bad TV is your thing.


It may not go that long. The premiere got good ratings, but watch them fall off for the 2nd episode.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gchance said:


> It may not go that long. The premiere got good ratings, but watch them fall off for the 2nd episode.


Assuming, of course, that they have something that they think will do better to fill the time slot for the rest of the run...which these days is not a sure thing.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Assuming, of course, that they have something that they think will do better to fill the time slot for the rest of the run...which these days is not a sure thing.


True, even Another Life got a 2nd season.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Not great, but not terrible either. The "coming this season" actually hooked me more than the actual episode.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> it kind of reminded us of those terrible 1950s Sci Fi B movies.


That's what I liked about it!


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

I couldn't remember today what happened in the second episode, so I went back to check, and according to my Tivo I only made it half way through the second episode, and then, maybe, wandered off? That's not a good sign.

So I finished it, there was all of about 5 minutes of interesting material in the last 30 minutes. I'll leave the season pass, but I don't know how much more watching characters slowly figure out they're in LA, in the past, I can take.



gchance said:


> even Another Life got a 2nd season.


Honestly, given the choice, I'm more interested in season two of After Life. Not that I expect great things out of it, but against La Brea so far it's got a fighting chance.


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## rloper (Mar 25, 2002)

-sigh- I hate -unnecessary- bad TV science. Even science including time rifts and psychic time visions. 

You don’t carbon date wedding rings. The only carbon in a wedding ring is a diamond, and diamonds were all crystallized at least tens of millions ago. Carbon dating has a range of about 50,000 years in the past. So that would be an immeasurable blip in the overall age of the diamond.

Sorry…just had to vent.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

We could spend hours just mentioning how bad this is….so…
“Water?” “No thanks. I run 10 miles a day, so I built
stamina” (to dehydration from running?)

Also, the acting is bad,,,really bad (except for Natalie Zee, of course)


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## wedgecon (Dec 28, 2002)

rloper said:


> -sigh- I hate -unnecessary- bad TV science. Even science including time rifts and psychic time visions.
> 
> You don't carbon date wedding rings. The only carbon in a wedding ring is a diamond, and diamonds were all crystallized at least tens of millions ago. Carbon dating has a range of about 50,000 years in the past. So that would be an immeasurable blip in the overall age of the diamond.
> 
> Sorry&#8230;just had to vent.


What age would artificial diamonds show on a carbon test?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

…and camels


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## rloper (Mar 25, 2002)

wedgecon said:


> What age would artificial diamonds show on a carbon test?


That is a very good observation. I don't know for sure but I would guess a synthetic diamond would have a 'modern' C14 ratio. Not sure how that would affect a time measurement, but hey&#8230;.it's 'more science-y'.


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## rloper (Mar 25, 2002)

I liked the camels….there were camels found in La Brea.

Which makes me think the writers may have actually visited the museum there.

I haven’t been myself. I’d love to go.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

wedgecon said:


> What age would artificial diamonds show on a carbon test?


Atmospheric nuclear weapon tests ruined Carbon dating as a means for unambiguously measuring the age of organic material produced since 1950.

Another issue is that Carbon dating gives an indication of the age that the Carbon in the object was fixed from the environment; was said artificial diamond made from coal laid down in the Carboniferous era or from charcoal made from wood harvested after nuclear testing started? These would have very different results.

Natalie Zea is the only reason I will continue to watch this show.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> Natalie Zea is the only reason I will continue to watch this show.


As good as she is, the husband is just as bad. I find him a terrible actor.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

astrohip said:


> As good as she is, the husband is just as bad. I find him a terrible actor.


He's been OK elsewhere. Maybe he's struggling too much with the accent..?


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## jgickler (Apr 7, 2000)

I find this show very fun to watch, but only because I don't take it seriously. I think that they are being a little more subtle about it then things like Sharknado or BrainDead, but I think it is at its heart a scifi dramady. 

As I watched the first episode, I said to my wife, the father's delivery and look reminds me of Robert Hays acting in Airplane!. The characters are similar, both pilots, both had a traumatic accident that left them unable to fly, both are then being thrust into a crisis situation, i'm guessing they both have drinking problems, etc. 

And then did you catch what the ship they are going to take down through the crack is named?? 

That's right Striker.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

jgickler said:


> I find this show very fun to watch, but only because I don't take it seriously. I think that they are being a little more subtle about it then things like Sharknado or BrainDead, but I think it is at its heart a scifi dramady.
> 
> As I watched the first episode, I said to my wife, the father's delivery and look reminds me of Robert Hays acting in Airplane!. The characters are similar, both pilots, both had a traumatic accident that left them unable to fly, both are then being thrust into a crisis situation, i'm guessing they both have drinking problems, etc.
> 
> ...


I didn't notice any type of comedy vibe to this show. Now is it unintentionally funny? Definitely. I compare it more to Under the Dome than something like Sharknado, or even The Orville, which definitely have planned comedy. I watch this show not because the plot and acting is any good, but to make fun of the poor acting and horrible looking low budget CGI. For me this is MST3K type viewing.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I swear this show is like fan fiction for a better sci-fi show.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

I'm out.

--Carlos V.


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## the928guy (Sep 30, 2002)

I'm keeping up with the boxes that are getting checked off:

Bad, or at least shady, cop? Check
Interracial / gay couple? Check / check
Religious person portrayed as fanatic? Check (nothing in the Bible that I'm aware of requires burial)
Heavy handed government agents? Check

I'm still waiting for an orphan waif that sings, and a hooker with a heart of gold.

But I'm watching it anyhow, because the alternatives on network television are so few.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I don't think it's "religious person portrayed as fanatic". I think it's closer to being played as a cult. There are a lot of religious communities that require a lot of things that have no actual basis in the Bible. And, there are strict burial rules in other religions besides Christianity (although she was creating a cross for the grave).

The husband's acting didn't bother me quite so much in the second episode, as it did in the first.

Nevertheless the only things keeping me watching are (a) not much else on, and (b) Natalie Zea.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Well, they noticed that the air is cleaner, how long till they decide to look for water?


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Everyone else seems to be getting a _Lost_ vibe. The first thing that came to my mind was _Terra Nova_.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

My thought from reading the thread is they did a good job of casting the lead!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> Everyone else seems to be getting a _Lost_ vibe. The first thing that came to my mind was _Terra Nova_.


I definitely noticed the Lost vibe and my son and I were trying to compare characters from Lost to this. Terra Nova was really a completely different type of show to me.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

That Don Guy said:


> Everyone else seems to be getting a _Lost_ vibe. The first thing that came to my mind was _Terra Nova_.


First thing I thought of was it's a modern day Land of the Lost


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Yeah, the remnants of the modern world strewn about reminded me of the Land of the Lost with Will Ferrell.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

bryhamm said:


> First thing I thought of was it's a modern day Land of the Lost


This! that's how I felt about it after the 1st episode.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

If there were the slightest stink of Will Ferrell, I'd have run away from this series. I suspect it's just a classic lame story interfered with by network execs.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

gchance said:


> It may not go that long. The premiere got good ratings, but watch them fall off for the 2nd episode.


In the past, I may have agreed with you, but there's a new gimmick being tried by some producers that makes me think they'll try as hard as they can to air the entire season. If they haven't finished filming all ten episodes yet, they can rewrite the last episode so it wraps everything up rather than ending on some cliffhanger, and even if they have, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some "alternate ending" in case they realize it's not going to be picked up. This way, the series has "a complete, non-recurring story," which means that the show could be entered in the Emmys in limited series categories rather than drama series ones.

Then again, there are Plans B and C:
Plan B - burn the remaining episodes off on Peacock. Yes, shows on Peacock are eligible for Emmys; _Girls5eva_ and _The Amber Ruffin Show_ both got nominations in 2021.
Plan C - burn the remaining episodes off on Friday nights at 8, which is when _The Blacklist_ was supposed to air before being moved to Thursdays to fill the hole caused by _Law & Order: For the Defense_ being dropped from the schedule.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> If they haven't finished filming all ten episodes yet, they can rewrite the last episode so it wraps everything up rather than ending on some cliffhanger, and even if they have, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some "alternate ending" in case they realize it's not going to be picked up.


It would surprise me if most productions DIDN'T do this. It would make total sense in today's atmosphere.


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## the928guy (Sep 30, 2002)

It seems silly to complain about a science thing, and of course I could be wrong, but I'm going to complain anyhow since I have such a knack for it: Doesn't carbon dating only work on organic material? An engagement ring doesn't really fall into that category.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

the928guy said:


> It seems silly to complain about a science thing, and of course I could be wrong, but I'm going to complain anyhow since I have such a knack for it: Doesn't carbon dating only work on organic material? An engagement ring doesn't really fall into that category.


Post #33... La Brea (NBC) Season Thread *spoilers*


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

the928guy said:


> It seems silly to complain about a science thing, and of course I could be wrong, but I'm going to complain anyhow since I have such a knack for it: Doesn't carbon dating only work on organic material? An engagement ring doesn't really fall into that category.


astrohip has already given you the best answer, but (to natter on further) carbon dating works on carbon which has been isolated from exchange with the environment. Organic material is a subset of the things which contain carbon. Carbon dating has been used to date charcoal found in archeological sites, for an example of the dating of non-organic material.

As was previously pointed out, a diamond ring would contain no remaining carbon 14, so the result of carbon dating would only be that it's older than 50,000 years.


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## the928guy (Sep 30, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Post #33... La Brea (NBC) Season Thread *spoilers*


Apologies ... I don't know how I missed that extended discussion. Overuse of "mark all as read," I suppose.


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

I just finished watching the 10/12 episode.

They are hungry, but they don't think about the two big sabertooth tigers that were killed last episode? Not even a hand-wave to say they thought about them?

They decide to try and trap rabbits? For what, about fifty people?


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## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

stark said:


> I just finished watching the 10/12 episode.
> 
> They are hungry, but they don't think about the two big sabertooth tigers that were killed last episode? Not even a hand-wave to say they thought about them?
> 
> They decide to try and trap rabbits? For what, about fifty people?


Good point. Also I can't help but think with the hole that big that opened up above, I am sure there may have been a grocery store or two that came down with them.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

jpicard said:


> Good point. Also I can't help but think with the hole that big that opened up above, I am sure there may have been a grocery store or two that came down with them.


The nearest one seems to be the Ralph's on Wilshire, and it doesn't look to me as if the hole reaches that far. But they do have the Chilean consulate, the German consolate, and a 99 Cent Store!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I would expect that finding water would be a bigger concern.

The “Government” says it’s a rescue mission, but if they don’t have ulterior motives, I’ll be disappointed. 

The poor acting is really distracting. 
Dialogue not much better — “I know your going on a dangerous mission to save my family, but before you go, we need to discuss how you &$#@‘d my wife”


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

The part that cracks me up is that they already sent an unmanned drone through the crack and it ended disastrously so then they decided to send a live person in a larger aircraft through the crack. Clearly, anything with modern technology does not survive the journey through the crack so these geniuses decide to send an aircraft through it. Why not send a hot air balloon that is completely passive into the rift and see how that goes?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> The part that cracks me up is that they already sent an unmanned drone through the crack and it ended disastrously so then they decided to send a live person in a larger aircraft through the crack. Clearly, anything with modern technology does not survive the journey through the crack so these geniuses decide to send an aircraft through it. Why not send a hot air balloon that is completely passive into the rift and see how that goes?


Well, all they knew with the drone was that they lost contact, right? And now they know that people survive going through, so sending a manned craft doesn't seem unreasonable...


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Finally caught up with this show. And it's another exercise in frustration with stupid character decisions running rampant, stupid setups for said characters, and too much melodrama. 

But like a slow motion train wreck I can't stop watching it. 

I'm stymied as to why when 1st confronted by the Saber-tooth cat, the decided to run. Why not just open the steel doors of the ambulance next to you, climb in and close the doors? Unless the cat has opposable thumbs or is otherwise familiar with opening doors, they'd be perfectly safe.

Of course Eve was banging her husband's best friend when the car crash that takes her daughter's leg occurs.

So much lazy trope filled writing here.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

jpicard said:


> Good point. Also I can't help but think with the hole that big that opened up above, I am sure there may have been a grocery store or two that came down with them.


That's something I didn't notice until you brought it up - people and cars made it through, but what happened to all of the buildings in the sinkhole area? It can't be that the sinkhole only covers one intersection; how could they get a jet plane through it if it was that small?


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## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

When those people were stuck in the cave and they ended up in the dead end with the pool of water they were all panicking about how to get out so they dive into the water? Why not just look up to where the light was coming from and consider climbing up the vines and stuff hanging down?! 
Sarcasm.... I sure wish my cell phone lasted 4 days without a recharge....


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

That Don Guy said:


> That's something I didn't notice until you brought it up - people and cars made it through, but what happened to all of the buildings in the sinkhole area? It can't be that the sinkhole only covers one intersection; how could they get a jet plane through it if it was that small?


There seem to be some building ruins in their camp...


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I think I'm out...its takes itself too serious...I was hoping for "it's so bad, it's good"...instead it's just bad!


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## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

I’m still in. Yeah, it isn’t really must see TV, but it is entertaining when you quit nitpicking everything IMO.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Another stupid thing I just thought about, They're being chased by a bear and they duck into a nearby cave, I guess they never considered the possibility that the cave could be the bear's home, or that there could be other bears in there. Lucky for them that it was empty. Well except the Hiker from the Mojave.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Craigbob said:


> Another stupid thing I just thought about, They're being chased by a bear and they duck into a nearby cave, I guess they never considered the possibility that the cave could be the bear's home, or that there could be other bears in there. Lucky for them that it was empty. Well except the Hiker from the Mojave.


Well, the opening was nowhere near big enough for the bear. I did wonder how he managed to see that tiny opening way up a hillside as they were running past away from a huge bear, though.

And it was pretty laughable that the bear was able to block the entry so thoroughly that they couldn't clear it...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

lparsons21 said:


> I'm still in. Yeah, it isn't really must see TV, but it is entertaining when you quit nitpicking everything IMO.


That's what makes this show fun IMO. When you point out all the dumb things, the plot holes, the terrible CGI, and laugh about it with your friends and family, it's fun! Like I said earlier in the thread, it's like Under the "Dumb" or MST3K. It's a serious show that's IMO can't be taken seriously at all. Plus it has Natalie Zea, so there's that. Kinda disappointed that we only got wet haired Natalie after their cave swim, but I guess it's family TV


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, the opening was nowhere near big enough for the bear. I did wonder how he managed to see that tiny opening way up a hillside as they were running past away from a huge bear, though.
> 
> And it was pretty laughable that the bear was able to block the entry so thoroughly that they couldn't clear it...


You'd think they could have figured out a way to scare it off. Works in real life right?


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, the opening was nowhere near big enough for the bear. I did wonder how he managed to see that tiny opening way up a hillside as they were running past away from a huge bear, though.
> 
> And it was pretty laughable that the bear was able to block the entry so thoroughly that they couldn't clear it...


True, but for all they knew there was a larger opening somewhere else that the bear could fit in., plus there could have been saber-tooths or wolves in there.

I agree, none of the rocks looked that set in where they couldn't get some out of the way to squeeze through.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Craigbob said:


> True, but for all they knew there was a larger opening somewhere else that the bear could fit in., plus there could have been saber-tooths or wolves in there.


But going in the tiny opening solved the immediate problem, without which they would have been dead. Once inside, not being dead, they could deal with any other problems that might or might not come up.


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## jcwik (Dec 29, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> The nearest one seems to be the Ralph's on Wilshire, and it doesn't look to me as if the hole reaches that far. But they do have the Chilean consulate, the German consolate, and a 99 Cent Store!


I keep looking at what appears to be the Petersen Auto Museum behind them (red stripes). They must have some food and clothes. Who knows what else.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

jcwik said:


> I keep looking at what appears to be the Petersen Auto Museum behind them (red stripes). They must have some food and clothes. Who knows what else.


I agree, even if it's only a portion of the museum, it should provide shelter of some sort.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

The dumb is starting to hurt. Where do we start? How about when Eve pokes a stick in the edge of the river, it only goes in a foot or two, and proclaims the river isn't deep. Because we all know rivers never get any deeper than their banks.

How about Heroin Boy? All that nervous twitch of a character has to do is explain to everyone what he found, what he did, and that's that. But no, let's keep it a secret, so Druggie can hold it over him. Possibly the dumbest sub-plot in the history of sub-plots.

The fully equipped plane horse lady built? Or the fort they found, that was wide open. Unless it's abandoned, isn't the idea of a fort to keep people out?

But my favorite has to be the massive government cover-up. Wouldn't the LA Times or WaPo or NYT or somebody be asking a few questions? Like WTF is at the bottom of it? Any show that depends on a massive government conspiracy as a plot point is doomed to failure.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> The dumb is starting to hurt. Where do we start? How about when Eve pokes a stick in the edge of the river, it only goes in a foot or two, and proclaims the river isn't deep. Because we all know rivers never get any deeper than their banks.
> 
> How about Heroin Boy? All that nervous twitch of a character has to do is explain to everyone what he found, what he did, and that's that. But no, let's keep it a secret, so Druggie can hold it over him. Possibly the dumbest sub-plot in the history of sub-plots.
> 
> ...


Because you can't have one of these types of shows without a massive government coverup. That's just how they are done. Yeah, three seems like NO panic at all outside the hole.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> Yeah, there seems like NO panic at all outside the hole.


That's part of what makes shows like this fail. You have to be true to your reality. You can make up rules, but they have to be honest to the setting.

In this case, if a sinkhole this big opens up in LA, it would be a story the equivalent of 9/11. It wouldn't leave the front page for weeks. The writers could have come up with a better story for the top-side story than... well, no story. It just disappeared off the radar of the average American? Right...


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> That's part of what makes shows like this fail. You have to be true to your reality. You can make up rules, but they have to be honest to the setting.
> 
> In this case, if a sinkhole this big opens up in LA, it would be a story the equivalent of 9/11. It wouldn't leave the front page for weeks. The writers could have come up with a better story for the top-side story than... well, no story. It just disappeared off the radar of the average American? Right...


And there seems to be too much backstory history with the people in the hole too. Did we need to have Natalie Zea's lover be the pilot who flies in? Really? Why do we need to have the heroin story in the first place. Unlike something like Lost, where from the opening episode it was CLEAR that the show was going to be about relationships, in this case, the story is all over the place. I'll stick with it for awhile longer, but yeah, it's starting to lose me. NBC has been touting the show as the best rated new drama, but I wonder what the ratings are like a few episodes in?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

astrohip said:


> The dumb is starting to hurt. Where do we start? How about when Eve pokes a stick in the edge of the river, it only goes in a foot or two, and proclaims the river isn't deep. Because we all know rivers never get any deeper than their banks.
> 
> How about Heroin Boy? All that nervous twitch of a character has to do is explain to everyone what he found, what he did, and that's that. But no, let's keep it a secret, so Druggie can hold it over him. Possibly the dumbest sub-plot in the history of sub-plots.
> 
> ...


Wait a minute...you didn't think the fact that the plane landed without a pilot is dumb? all that black smoke was the engine burning itself out (and not the rest of the airplane)?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

astrohip said:


> The dumb is starting to hurt. Where do we start? How about when Eve pokes a stick in the edge of the river, it only goes in a foot or two, and proclaims the river isn't deep. Because we all know rivers never get any deeper than their banks.


 Right?? Not only does she not use the stick, she _actively throws it away_. Even if you are confident that the river won't get deeper (why?) of course you'd still keep the stick to look for submerged rocks and just to keep your balance!

I guess on the farm where she grew up they didn't have any rivers or creeks.

Even stupider is that it turns out it doesn't even have any purpose in the plot! It would be dumb if they had her toss it away to make something else work better, but it's even sillier to do it for no reason.

I know it's a little thing. But sometimes little things bug me more than big things. It just screams sloppiness and carelessness.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

So, this guy has real time ‘visions’ of what’s going on, and they (the “government”) just let him walk around.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

madscientist said:


> Right?? Not only does she not use the stick, she _actively throws it away_. Even if you are confident that the river won't get deeper (why?) of course you'd still keep the stick to look for submerged rocks and just to keep your balance!
> 
> I guess on the farm where she grew up they didn't have any rivers or creeks.
> 
> ...


That's not really a little thing. As you said, it's sloppy writing and directing.

&#8230;and a 2nd Saber Tooth Tiger killed and left behind. 
Are they all Vegans?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Tony_T said:


> That's not really a little thing. As you said, it's sloppy writing and directing.
> 
> &#8230;and a 2nd Saber Tooth Tiger killed and left behind.
> Are they all Vegans?


To be fair, the pilot had all the MREs

But at least we're uncovering the mystery of why that species is extinct!


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Wait a minute...you didn't think the fact that the plane landed without a pilot is dumb? all that black smoke was the engine burning itself out (and not the rest of the airplane)?


It's clear I'm going to have to start taking Dumb Notes during each episode.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

The big python thing was really stupid, too. It had the lady all wrapped up in a death squeeze and then Natalie's boyfriend dove in and I guess killed the snake with his gun. How did he not hit the woman with a bullet, too?

I see comparisons to Lost here, but to me there is no comparison. Lost was incredibly interesting and compelling. This show is incredibly stupid and ridiculous.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

astrohip said:


> It's clear I'm going to have to start taking Dumb Notes during each episode.


I see the rolleyes...I hope you were not upset, I wasn't attacking you...I was just adding to your list with a little snicker about the most outrageous dumb thing in that episode


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Since the shooting of the snake happened off-screen we can imagine it happened in some not-dumb way: for example maybe he had the head of the snake away from Riley and shot it in the head. In the end I guess if he had hit her she'd just be dead, in a different way. So...


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I see the rolleyes...I hope you were not upset, I wasn't attacking you...I was just adding to your list with a little snicker about the most outrageous dumb thing in that episode


No, the opposite. There is so much dumbness, a bounty of brainlessness, that I need to take notes, so I don't forget them for next week's post.

Keep pointing them out!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> And there seems to be too much backstory history with the people in the hole too. Did we need to have Natalie Zea's lover be the pilot who flies in? Really?


Well, to be fair, they did go to some lengths to explain that one...he was on the list of potential candidates, and they picked him to make Vision-Dad happy.

But yeah, there is a whole lot of stupid going on. Oddly enough, though, I keep watching (e.g., Under the Dome and...what was the show about the anti-social genius with the consulting company who had crazy/stupid adventures?... were in the same league of stupid, but I found them unwatchable).


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...what was the show about the anti-social genius with the consulting company who had crazy/stupid adventures?...


Well now I need to know which show you're talking about, so I can tell where you set the bar.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

kdmorse said:


> Well now I need to know which show you're talking about, so I can tell where you set the bar.


It's driving me crazy, I can't remember the title. There was a scene where he was in a jeep, hacking into an airplane via Ethernet as it was taking off, or something like that...


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

astrohip said:


> It's clear I'm going to have to start taking Dumb Notes during each episode.


It would be a shorter list to note what was reasonable each episode.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's driving me crazy, I can't remember the title. There was a scene where he was in a jeep, hacking into an airplane via Ethernet as it was taking off, or something like that...


I think you mean _Scorpion_.

I never watched past the first episode, nor could I watch Under the Dumb, but like you still watching LaBrea. Weird. Maybe the Natalie Zea effect.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

madscientist said:


> I think you mean _Scorpion_.


That's the one! Thanks!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

She's the _only_ reason I'm still watching.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> *It's driving me crazy,* I can't remember the title. There was a scene where he was in a jeep, hacking into an airplane via Ethernet as it was taking off, or something like that...


The shortest ride ever!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't know much about guns so this is a legit question: can you shoot a gun underwater?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Anubys said:


> I don't know much about guns so this is a legit question: can you shoot a gun underwater?


Yes.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I don't know much about guns so this is a legit question: can you shoot a gun underwater?


Mostly, with a heavy side of it depends. There's no general reason a gun won't fire underwater, as all the bangy bits still work underwater. But sometimes there are specific challenges, like the water interfering with the speed of travel of the firing mechanism preventing it from striking hard enough. Or interfering with the ejection of the spent casing. Often this results in only being able to fire once. Lots of videos on youtube of people trying out random guns underwater with mixed results.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Steveknj said:


> NBC has been touting the show as the best rated new drama,


OMG how low is the bar that this is the best one?!



madscientist said:


> but like you still watching LaBrea. Weird. Maybe the Natalie Zea effect.


It's totally the Natalie Zea effect.



astrohip said:


> No, the opposite. There is so much dumbness, a bounty of brainlessness, that I need to take notes, so I don't forget them for next week's post.
> 
> Keep pointing them out!


Top of my list is the fact that if the boys were going to keep the heroin secret, they should have found a way to tell Riley about Lucas. But of course as far as we know they didn't even try. Because stupid subplot.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Does the “dealer” really think that he’ll be rescued and be able to smuggle the drugs back with him? And why did the 2 guys take all the heroin for the operation when they only needed a little? And the daughter is supposed to know medical procedures and didn’t know that the heroin could be used as an anesthetic?
And, and, and…….


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> OMG how low is the bar that this is the best one?!


Not "best." Best-rated." Important distinction! 


Tony_T said:


> Does the "dealer" really think that he'll be rescued and be able to smuggle the drugs back with him?


Maybe he thinks they're stuck there forever, and wants to be the New World's biggest and most powerful drug dealer!


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> NBC has been touting the show as the best rated new drama, but I wonder what the ratings are like a few episodes in?


Excellent.

The show is going to hang around. It is pretty stupid, but I'm a sucker for these.

And it has her..........


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'd rather watch her on The Detour, lots of almost-nudity there!

And, that show has a lot of *intentional *comedy


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

madscientist said:


> I think you mean _Scorpion_.
> 
> I never watched past the first episode, nor could I watch Under the Dumb, but like you still watching LaBrea. Weird. Maybe the Natalie Zea effect.


I was the same with Scorpion ... only watched the first ep. I did watch Under the Dome though, and am watching LaBrea.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I watched the most recent episode last night, and I have to say I now have a favorite new line.

A sinkhole opened and sent you through a portal in the sky of prehistoric earth. A giant CGI sloth the quality of a white polar bear rolled through camp while your son was recovering from near disembowelment, but the next day is walking around just fine ("You sure heal quickly.")

And yet after all of this, your husband back home is seeing visions of you and arranged for your ex-lover, who standing in front of you, to fly through said portal for an attempted rescue, and you respond, "How is that possible?"

We need to start a list of every plot point swiped from Lost.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Anubys said:


> I'd rather watch her on The Detour, lots of almost-nudity there!
> 
> And, that show has a lot of *intentional *comedy


Thank you. Added to my Hulu queue.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

gchance said:


> We need to start a list of every plot point swiped from Lost.


"Where are we?"
_

[Famous last line of the Lost pilot episode, for those who don't remember, and now repeated in La Brea]_


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

astrohip said:


> "Where are we?"
> _
> 
> [Famous last line of the Lost pilot episode, for those who don't remember, and now repeated in La Brea]_


Oh yeah. But you have to say it in Charlie's voice. "Wheeeeh aaahhhhh we?"


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

gchance said:


> A sinkhole opened and sent you through a portal in the sky of prehistoric earth. A giant CGI sloth the quality of a white polar bear rolled through camp while your son was recovering from near disembowelment, but the next day is walking around just fine ("You sure heal quickly.")


This reminds me... I was wondering if they'd bring this up but definitely they haven't really thought of it:

Josh wasn't really disemboweled. He wasn't even that badly bitten, it didn't look like: they didn't really have to give him many stitches. The problem was his wound got infected with prehistoric microbes. You may say, well, how did he go from the brink of death to pretty much fine in a day or two, but here's an interesting thing: we have really great antibiotics and none of the prehistoric microbes have built up any immunity to them at all, not like our current resistant microbe strains. So assuming that the antibiotics worked against these prehistoric germs, you might expect that they worked really well against them.

Of course no one on the show mentioned this, but I thought it might be a cool thing to consider.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

and in 12,000 years, these microbes will be more than ready for modern antibiotics!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

You know I kind of want it to be a different dimension, not the past, and this is just the present they're in.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

gchance said:


> You know I kind of want it to be a different dimension, not the past, and this is just the present they're in.


But how did the ring travel to the other dimension?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Anubys said:


> But how did the ring travel to the other dimension?


Frodo took it?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Anubys said:


> But how did the ring travel to the other dimension?


It doesn't matter: La Brea!


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## sleepy (Oct 22, 2021)

Why no spears? As soon as the wolfs appeared why did they not gather weapons somehow. I think most of us would want something to help defend ourselves. Must be tire irons in cars. Make spears , rocks anything. Build defensive positions .1 gun then 2 and 3 guns. Ammunition would not last for long .The writers should spend a couple of nights in the woods without supplies ,maybe that would help. Anyway like the idea but they need better survival experts .The ex seal now doc ,law officers would know some of the simple things that most of us would try


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I did love the guy with the beard who said he's afraid of everyone being together because one of them might be a killer and so he, therefore, wants to go sleep alone.

I'm thinking he's one of the writers for the show.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Anubys said:


> But how did the ring travel to the other dimension?


Look, it's in L.A. with the traffic they have there I can believe it took 10,000 years to cross dimensions.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

I don't have the best memory, but I doubt I'd forget where I hid hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of heroin just a day ago. I may forget it in 10 years, but not a day or two.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jamesbobo said:


> I don't have the best memory, but I doubt I'd forget where I hid hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of heroin just a day ago. I may forget it in 10 years, but not a day or two.


He said he was stoned at the time. Apparently, he was carrying 15 kilos of weed on him when they crashed.

I was surprised that all that heroin was worth only $250k. I thought it would be millions, or is that cocaine that's expensive?


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Anubys said:


> He said he was stoned at the time. Apparently, he was carrying 15 kilos of weed on him when they crashed.
> 
> I was surprised that all that heroin was worth only $250k. I thought it would be millions, or is that cocaine that's expensive?


I forgot about him being stoned at the time. As I said, I don't have the best memory.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jamesbobo said:


> I forgot about him being stoned at the time. As I said, I don't have the best memory.


Probably not a good show to watch while stoned...


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Probably not a good show to watch while stoned...


Well, I think it would be much better.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Howie said:


> Well, I think it would be much better.


OK, then, watch it while you're NOT stoned and let us know the difference...


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Anubys said:


> He said he was stoned at the time. Apparently, he was carrying 15 kilos of weed on him when they crashed.
> 
> I was surprised that all that heroin was worth only $250k. I thought it would be millions, or is that cocaine that's expensive?


As the saying goes, a good is worth what it will bring. When cops announce a seizure, they will estimate the retail price when it reaches the street after going though multiple layers and being cut multiple times. This number is much greater than what the raw, uncut product brings at wholesale in uncut bundles as this batch seems to be. I would imagine the amount given in the show is what might be realized when it is sold, not what the police will assert when they pile it up for the cameras.

I assure you that even if they know jack about Carbon dating, people in the entertainment industry know the price of drugs!


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## Jeff_in_Bklyn (Apr 26, 2003)

I like how she tested how deep the water was at the shore and said it was only a few feet deep without testing the middle, in fact as soon as she stepped into the water she THREW AWAY the stick!


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> OK, then, watch it while you're NOT stoned and let us know the difference...


That's all the time because, well, I'm stuck here in Texas where the overlords don't think any of us are adults that are capable of making our own decisions.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I can only assume that the guy stole the heroin from some big drug kingpin so he's worried that he'll be killed when he gets back if he doesn't return it. I would think that would be the least of my worries unless whoever is after him somehow discovers how to time travel. Maybe he was planning to sell it to the indigenous people for a few sabertooth skins or something.

And yeah, the part about the water being shallow by testing it with the stick near the shore seemed like a total genius move. This show has me constantly shaking my head. I'm thinking it was the writers that were stoned when putting the script together, not the audience. Maybe they were hoping we'd all be stoned while watching it so it would make more sense.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mr.unnatural said:


> I can only assume that the guy stole the heroin from some big drug kingpin so he's worried that he'll be killed when he gets back if he doesn't return it. I would think that would be the least of my worries unless whoever is after him somehow discovers how to time travel. Maybe he was planning to sell it to the indigenous people for a few sabertooth skins or something.


When he threatened to kill the stoner, it was something like "if we get back." So I suspect he's not too concerned about the heroin in the past, but in case they find their way home.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Howie said:


> That's all the time because, well, I'm stuck here in Texas where the overlords don't think any of us are adults that are capable of making our own decisions.


Colorado is only a few hours away (says the fellow Texan who's in CO now, but for a friend... yeah, that's it!)


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Okay, so they dug up the bottle with the letter in it. Did anybody bother to check the skulls they dug up to see who died "ten thousand years ago"? It shouldn't be that hard to match against current dental records - and anybody who can keep the dig a secret is more than capable of obtaining the records without much suspicion as well.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

My guess:
If they did, they would introduce a paradox when (not if) they are rescued. 
The skulls are from 'the others' who won't (want to) be rescued.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

What about the remains of all those cars and buildings? if glass can survive 10,000 years, there should be a ton of glass from all those wrecks.

Oh, and I do love how the cork that she used on the bottle did survive 10,000 years!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> As the saying goes, a good is worth what it will bring. When cops announce a seizure, they will estimate the retail price when it reaches the street after going though multiple layers and being cut multiple times. This number is much greater than what the raw, uncut product brings at wholesale in uncut bundles as this batch seems to be. I would imagine the amount given in the show is what might be realized when it is sole, not what the police will assert when they pile it up for the cameras.
> 
> I assure you that even if they know jack about Carbon dating, people in the entertainment industry know the price of drugs!


You know this like you have experience with it!! 

Too many episodes of The Wire?


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> Okay, so they dug up the bottle with the letter in it. Did anybody bother to check the skulls they dug up to see who died "ten thousand years ago"? It shouldn't be that hard to match against current dental records - and anybody who can keep the dig a secret is more than capable of obtaining the records without much suspicion as well.


Thinking about this, they probably don't know who all's actually down there. Sure there's a few like Izzy who were separated at the hole, but overall how would they know? Take for example Riley and Sam, how would those on the surface know they fell into the hole unless there's someone on the surface who's missing them.

One thing I noticed is that when they went to dig site all the people walking on the sidewalk at night as if there wasn't a gigantic hole in the middle of the street right next to them. While that's a very L.A. thing to be doing, there's not a lot of restaurants or things at Wilshire and Fairfax aside from the great Tom Bergin's and the Streetlight exhibit at the L.A. Museum of Art not much open there at night.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Just started watching this today. I am into episode 3 and I am enjoying it so I am not reading this thread until I am current. However, I just want to say that the lead actor, Eoin Mackin, really looks to me like Vincent Baggetta, who played the title role of an attorney on a very short-lived (13 episodes) show called The Eddie Capra Mysteries among about a million other things from the 60s to 90s. I am sure they aren't related at all and Vincent Baggetta died 4 years ago at 79 years old.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

I am now current and after reading this thread, I am in the minority again, as usual. I like this and I will stick with it as long as it lasts. Other than Sam (Jon Seda from Chicago PD) and Levi the pilot (Nicholas Gonzalez from The Good Doctor,) I have never seen any of these actors/actresses before. I do have to say that I can watch Josh McKenzie (Lucas) all day long. He and his blue eyes are seriously good-looking!!!


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

What about all the "Butterfly effects" that are going here, would they not change the future?

Put me down as enjoying this show. Watching it on Hulu with no ads.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Johncv said:


> What about all the "Butterfly effects" that are going here, would they not change the future?


No, because, apparently, everything that is happening in the sinkhole has already happened as far as the present is concerned.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

That Don Guy said:


> No, because, apparently, everything that is happening in the sinkhole has already happened as far as the present is concerned.


But that means the husband will not go down and save them!


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Hot4Bo said:


> I am now current and after reading this thread, I am in the minority again, as usual. I like this and I will stick with it as long as it lasts. Other than Sam (Jon Seda from Chicago PD) and Levi the pilot (Nicholas Gonzalez from The Good Doctor,) I have never seen any of these actors/actresses before. I do have to say that I can watch Josh McKenzie (Lucas) all day long. He and his blue eyes are seriously good-looking!!!


You never saw Natelie Zea? She's the ONLY actor I recognize. The rest I have no idea, they I THINK I may have seen the son somewhere else, his face looks familiar.


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> You never saw Natelie Zea? She's the ONLY actor I recognize. The rest I have no idea, they I THINK I may have seen the son somewhere else, his face looks familiar.


I have never heard of her.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hot4Bo said:


> I have never heard of her.


You didn't watch Justified?

WHAT KIND OF MONSTER ARE YOU?!?


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Also amazing (and funny!) in _The Detour_. And a fun turn in a multi-episode sequence in _The Unicorn_


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## Hot4Bo (Apr 3, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You didn't watch Justified?
> 
> WHAT KIND OF MONSTER ARE YOU?!?


It is on my list to watch eventually but until then, I guess I am a very bad monster!


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> You never saw Natelie Zea? She's the ONLY actor I recognize. The rest I have no idea, they I THINK I may have seen the son somewhere else, his face looks familiar.


i recognize the actor playing the Doctor he use to play one of the cops on Chicago PD.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> No, because, apparently, everything that is happening in the sinkhole has already happened as far as the present is concerned.


What about saving all the camels from the tar pit?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

We don’t know that happened, only that the stoner said he saved the camels.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

There was a problem with the ship which made it crash. They got a message about it. They found the problem and fixed it. The past has already changed. Why is this difficult to communicate?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> There was a problem with the ship which made it crash. They got a message about it. They found the problem and fixed it. The past has already changed. Why is this difficult to communicate?


If everybody acts like even moderately rational human beings, there just isn't enough drama. Gota have dem 'splosions!


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

That Don Guy said:


> Johncv said:
> 
> 
> > What about all the "Butterfly effects" that are going here, would they not change the future?
> ...


I stand corrected - they have played the "anything that happens in the past is reflected exactly X amount of time later, in the present" card. The plane crashed? It suddenly appeared out of nowhere. The plane never took off? The crash disappeared. Okay, then, I'll ask; where are the remains of the now-uncrashed plane - or the earlier plane, or the drone, for that matter?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

That Don Guy said:


> I stand corrected - they have played the "anything that happens in the past is reflected exactly X amount of time later, in the present" card. The plane crashed? It suddenly appeared out of nowhere. The plane never took off? The crash disappeared. Okay, then, I'll ask; where are the remains of the now-uncrashed plane - or the earlier plane, or the drone, for that matter?


Although it actually makes some kind of sense, in that the two periods were directly connected by the rift. So in a sense, they are happening at the same time. Now that the rift is gone, the linkage is broken and that effect should no longer occur.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Gavin sent an iPad instead of written notes, when everything that goes through crashes.
_Just_ an iPad. Why isn't anyone sending food or guns or survival equipment?
Then again, food and water hasn't been a topic since the giant sloth ate everything. In a stranded-in-the-wilderness scenario, food and water would be most of your day.
How much weed did that guy bring? How long can a vape battery last?
If Gavin wants to risk flying down, why is that government guy so against that it would be worth shooting down a plane over LA? Press conference: "We shot him down and caused major damage to the city and killing 5 people because he was going to fly into a big hole."
Air Force woman hadn't used up her bullets in 3+ years?


----------



## Bruce24 (Jan 8, 2003)

tlc said:


> If Gavin wants to risk flying down, why is that government guy so against that it would be worth shooting down a plane over LA?
> 
> Air Force woman hadn't used up her bullets in 3+ years?


They believe a large object entering the void will trigger a large earthquake.

She probably had extra ammo on her aircraft.


----------



## jpicard (Oct 26, 2004)

If they were flying in helicopter, why not just keep flying that instead of diverting off to just get into another plane? Besides if they flew in the copter into the hole, the military guy would be less warry of them, (maybe thinking it was just another news copter or something). A drone can fly in without any attention, so why not a 'news' copter?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jpicard said:


> If they were flying in helicopter, why not just keep flying that instead of diverting off to just get into another plane? Besides if they flew in the copter into the hole, the military guy would be less warry of them, (maybe thinking it was just another news copter or something). A drone can fly in without any attention, so why not a 'news' copter?


The plane was specially designed to survive the passage (remember, everything else they've sent through has crashed).


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> If everybody acts like even moderately rational human beings, there just isn't enough drama. Gota have dem 'splosions!


Hell, we didn't go through a giant sinkhole to 10,000 years in the past and we still can't get people to act moderately rational to each other these days. to me this is the most believable aspect of the show. There's a limited about of things down there that can boom. They should save them 'splosions up.



tlc said:


> Gavin sent an iPad instead of written notes, when everything that goes through crashes.
> _Just_ an iPad. Why isn't anyone sending food or guns or survival equipment?
> Then again, food and water hasn't been a topic since the giant sloth ate everything. In a stranded-in-the-wilderness scenario, food and water would be most of your day.
> How much weed did that guy bring? How long can a vape battery last?
> ...



Most of the people wouldn't beleive it unless they saw it?
Good question. I'm guessing that they don't want to risk sending anything down that might cause another quake.
Water isn't too much of an issue since they're near the L.A. River. Food? We see them eating MREs, but how long could those last? They need to do some hunting and fishing.
Really. this makes no sense either. At least they show phones dieing. I wonder how many people had the sense to put theirs's into airplane mode to save battery.
Plane goes in the hole LA gets another quake. Govt. wants to avoid quakes (of course with the quakes L.A. gets normally who can tell one from the other?).
Same issue with the vape pen. 
Why haven't we seen anyone getting sick from the various pathogens that were alive back then that we have no immunity for or stomach issues from the water?


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Craigbob said:


> Why haven't we seen anyone getting sick from the various pathogens that were alive back then that we have no immunity for or stomach issues from the water?


I can give them passes on stuff like that because it can always be explainted as part of a later arc.

The "test stick in the water thing" fails in any arc.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

“She said Santa Monica, that’s miles from here”
Me: Wow, how can they get there in time?
“You can use the Jeep, I just got is started”
Me: Great timing, Jeep Guy, but how can they find it?
“I can navigate by the stars, learned it in Basic”
Me: but what about the terrain?
“I’m pretty sure it’s flatlands to the ocean”
Me: How could you possibly know that, stoner guy

I Love this show


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Tony_T said:


> "She said Santa Monica, that's miles from here"
> Me: Wow, how can they get there in time?
> "You can use the Jeep, I just got is started"
> Me: Great timing, Jeep Guy, but how can they find it?
> ...


I flipped it on mid show, and saw them basically driving around in a jeep like nothing had happened. At first I thought I was watching the wrong show.


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Me: Great timing, Jeep Guy, but how can they find it?
> "I can navigate by the stars, learned it in Basic"


Er, unless you know the exact date and time, and your longitude, the only way you can "navigate by the stars" is by finding the North Star and working from there - and The Version I Heard Was, the North Star was different 10,000 years ago than it is now.

Besides - didn't they have to get there and then back to La Brea before it got dark, since they thought the fissure would close sometime that night?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

That Don Guy said:


> Er, unless you know the exact date and time, and your longitude, the only way you can "navigate by the stars" is by finding the North Star and working from there - and The Version I Heard Was, the North Star was different 10,000 years ago than it is now.
> 
> Besides - didn't they have to get there and then back to La Brea before it got dark, since they thought the fissure would close sometime that night?


Well, you can navigate by the daytime stars. 

(Seriously, though, you know where you are and where you're going. The Sun will tell you which direction to go.)


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> Er, unless you know the exact date and time, and your longitude, the only way you can "navigate by the stars" is by finding the North Star and working from there - and The Version I Heard Was, the North Star was different 10,000 years ago than it is now.
> 
> Besides - didn't they have to get there and then back to La Brea before it got dark, since they thought the fissure would close sometime that night?


Back around 10,000 BCE Polaris was not the North Star. It would've been either Vega (which was more NNW than true North) or Eltanin in Draco which is a a little dimmer than Polaris but is better placed for North than Vega. Some astronomers say it would've been Thuban (also in Draco) but looking at some planetarium programs I tend to stick with Eltanin or Vega.


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

In answer to question 5 of TLC's post. When previous aircraft went in it caused earth tremors, one worse than the last. They were concerned that another plane would cause a major earthquake.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Civil War Gold — The writers are just playing with us now


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Family said:


> I can give them passes on stuff like that because it can always be explainted as part of a later arc.
> 
> The "test stick in the water thing" fails in any arc.


The test-stick-in-water thing resonated with me because it's almost a right of passage for young kids in Egypt. The first step in the Nile is ankle-deep, the second one is "head underwater" deep. So adults always trick youngsters getting into the Nile for the first time. Much hilarity ensues


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

There's plenty of stars to navigate by just up the road in Beverly Hills. WeeeDogies!


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Polaris wouldn't have been the north star, but it certainly would have been close enough to get to Santa Monica. Or just follow the LA river (it went through Ballona creek back then, which vape guy at least would know) until you hit the beach, then go north until you hit the Santa Monica mountains. But either way, that trip breaking trail all the way would take days, not hours.

I'm surprised nobody has complained about the unnaturally light gold. Gold is twice as dense as lead; that much bullion would be so heavy that ten men would have trouble carrying it.


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Civil War Gold - The writers are just playing with us now


Perhaps these sinkholes aren't something brand new, maybe they occurred in the past as well. Don't ask why nobody knew about them.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

That, and how it was found


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

ej42137 said:


> Polaris wouldn't have been the north star, but it certainly would have been close enough to get to Santa Monica. Or just follow the LA river (it went through Ballona creek back then, which vape guy at least would know) until you hit the beach, then go north until you hit the Santa Monica mountains. But either way, that trip breaking trail all the way would take days, not hours.
> 
> I'm surprised nobody has complained about the unnaturally light gold. Gold is twice as dense as lead; that much bullion would be so heavy that ten men would have trouble carrying it.


The significant problem to overcome is finding something that doesn't have something about it worthy of a complaint. At the moment there's just so much to complain about in every single minute of the show that it's hard to remember if something has been mentioned already.


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

ej42137 said:


> Polaris wouldn't have been the north star, but it certainly would have been close enough to get to Santa Monica. Or just follow the LA river (it went through Ballona creek back then, which vape guy at least would know) until you hit the beach, then go north until you hit the Santa Monica mountains. But either way, that trip breaking trail all the way would take days, not hours.
> 
> I'm surprised nobody has complained about the unnaturally light gold. Gold is twice as dense as lead; that much bullion would be so heavy that ten men would have trouble carrying it.


Yeah, but that's a trope in all TV and movies representations of gold. In goldfinger when Bond is trying to open the bomb case by hitting the lock with a gold bar I had to laugh since a single gold bar (ingot) is about 33lbs. There was no way in hell he'd be able to this one handed.


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> I'm surprised nobody has complained about the unnaturally light gold. Gold is twice as dense as lead; that much bullion would be so heavy that ten men would have trouble carrying it.


I thought that at first, but I thought each bar was marked "50 oz," which is about 4 troy pounds. My next thought was, "Wouldn't 50 oz bars be much smaller in volume?," but then I assumed that, for whatever reason, they weren't 24 karat.

It turns out that gold has a density of about 10 troy ounces per cubic inch, so a 50-ounce 24K bar should be only 5 cubic inches. Those looked like they were at least 50 cubic inches, so they would have been only 10% gold...


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Could be fake wooden ingots that was used in a TV Show that fell through the sinkhole (and somehow got buried) that they found


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> Could be fake wooden ingots that was used in a TV Show that fell through the sinkhole (and somehow got buried) that they found


Oooh, meta! Maybe they were the fake ingots made for THIS show! 

(Which, honestly, would suddenly make this a much more interesting show...)


----------



## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

That Don Guy said:


> I thought that at first, but I thought each bar was marked "50 oz," which is about 4 troy pounds. My next thought was, "Wouldn't 50 oz bars be much smaller in volume?," but then I assumed that, for whatever reason, they weren't 24 karat.
> 
> It turns out that gold has a density of about 10 troy ounces per cubic inch, so a 50-ounce 24K bar should be only 5 cubic inches. Those looked like they were at least 50 cubic inches, so they would have been only 10% gold...


Finish the calculation; even if the bars were iron, the box would be far too heavy for two people to lift.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

It’s more believable that they could lift it than how they found it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> It's more believable that they could lift it than how they found it.


Yeah..."Oops, I thought this was where I buried the heroin. But it turns out it's where those other guys buried the Civil War gold!"

At least they didn't find Jimmy Hoffa's body...


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> At least they didn't find Jimmy Hoffa's body...


Hey, spoilers!

Next week, on La Brea...


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

You guys are missing something important. They sent them an iPad. It didn't just contain a stupid little video, they could fill its memory with a ton of survival information. How to make medicine from what's around them, how to hunt and fish, Which plants are edible and which plants are not, how to plant crops, build shelters, make weapons, make batteries to charge their electronics...I'm sure they stocked it full of useful information.

Right? RIGHT?


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Yes, that iPad, send on the _back_ of a drone, with lid, that says 'open', then 'play me', and the drone lands right side up.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Anyway, we know that (Spoiler) they will either be saved, or die (including the group in the fort), because if any of them survive and reproduce 50,000 BC with knowledge of the 21st. Century, image how the future would be changed.
And why wouldn’t the government send colonies there to do just that?


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Tony_T said:


> Civil War Gold - The writers are just playing with us now


Another colorful butterfly.  Let see, civil war smuggler found a way to smuggle gold to the South and when people return home the South will have won the war.


----------



## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

It's slowly losing me. Will likely try to tough it out to see if the whole S1 gets better.


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Nov 10, 2021)

My wife and I have been watching it and personally I don't think it is that bad. Better than a lot of crap on TV now. We are a couple of episodes behind so not sure what has happened in the latest shows. I got tired of watching Supergirl when it became to preachy and Batwoman sucked from the beginning and sucks worse with the new Batwoman. Titans is not bad but needs work. Riverdale was pretty good but now sucks and the musical crap really sucks. So it is this show or nothing.

So considering what other options there are, this is better than anything else. At least it got my wife away from watching Ghost crap on Travel Channel. She actually likes the show and she is very fussy.

The only other show worth watching on TV these days is Outpost. 

It seems like since they know people are alive down there, they should load up about 20 or 30 or so shipping containers full of medical supplies, survival gear, guns and ammo, bows and hunting arrows, crossbows and hunting bolts, axes, hatchets, knives of all types, shovels, food, seeds and farming equipment and even a portable forge and send them down through the rift. IF the people cannot be rescued then they should be given the supplies to survive.
Another thing they should do is put out word for adventurers who want to go through the portal and populate the "new world". I am sure there are a lot of people who would love to live in a new world.
It seems like that would be what should be done. The people who go through could leave word chipped into rock and the message could be read in the future. They could send scientists, engineers, miners, geologists, and lots of survivalists and farmers, etc. through and parachute them in or if the plane works fly them in.


----------



## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> She actually likes the show and she is very fussy.


I hate to be the one to break it to you but if your wife is a fan of this show, well, she really ain't that fussy...


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Well, the acting is really bad, and the dialog as well. 
….but I can’t stop watching!!


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

bryhamm said:


> It's slowly losing me. Will likely try to tough it out to see if the whole S1 gets better.


Me too, I'm in multitaking mode with this show now. It just seems to get sillier and more and more, implausible. As always, these types of shows fool me into watching and then they disappoint. Like you, I'll stick with it for a bit, see if it gets better, but right now, I'm losing interest


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> Me too, I'm in multitaking mode with this show now. It just seems to get sillier and more and more, implausible. As always, these types of shows fool me into watching and then they disappoint.


How can this show disappoint anyone?

It is what it is.

But still wathcing!


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Wow, they rescued Marybeth & Lucas right before the concrete tunnel collapsed. Whew! Whodathunk?!?


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Family said:


> How can this show disappoint anyone?
> 
> It is what it is.
> 
> But still wathcing!


I know I shouldn't be, but I always hope for so much more, and almost always (with a few exceptions) they are so much less.


----------



## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I know I shouldn't be, but I always hope for so much more, and almost always (with a few exceptions) they are so much less.


I know what you mean, but it would be earth shattering if this one is more than what it is.


----------



## Gomezaddams51 (Nov 10, 2021)

Hcour said:


> I hate to be the one to break it to you but if your wife is a fan of this show, well, she really ain't that fussy...


Well considering what is offered on TV, there is not a lot of decent shows to watch. NICS, The Outpost, and Young Sheldon are about the only decent things left to watch so considering that, she is. Unfortunately not much worth watching so she watches Travel Channel Ghost shows for lack of anything better.


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> Anyway, we know that (Spoiler) they will either be saved, or die (including the group in the fort), because if any of them survive and reproduce 50,000 BC with knowledge of the 21st. Century, image how the future would be changed.
> And why wouldn't the government send colonies there to do just that?


And then they can add somebody who was in an earlier show with somebody now engaged to a prince...oh, wait, that was _Timeless_.



Johncv said:


> Another colorful butterfly.  Let see, civil war smuggler found a way to smuggle gold to the South and when people return home the South will have won the war.


Er, you are aware that California was (a) a state and (b) still in the Union when the Civil War started, right? In fact, I'm pretty sure there were Union troops stationed in southern California, if for no other reason than to prevent Confederate troops from marching from Texas through the Arizona territory and attacking.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Wow, we really like each other. We have lots of chemistry. we're about to kiss for the first time...

oh, the wind stopped. Never mind. what kiss? see ya!

The worst "will they or won't they" in the history of the trope.

And Josh voting his mom - who is clearly an awesome mom - off the island. Priceless.


----------



## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Gomezaddams51 said:


> Well considering what is offered on TV, there is not a lot of decent shows to watch. NICS, The Outpost, and Young Sheldon are about the only decent things left to watch so considering that, she is. Unfortunately not much worth watching so she watches Travel Channel Ghost shows for lack of anything better.


I assume you are talking about traditional network and basic cable? If you have Netflix, HBOMax, AppleTV+, Disney+ and so on, there's lots of quality, or fun, or interesting stuff. If can't find something decent to watch, you aren't trying.


----------



## lparsons21 (Feb 17, 2015)

Steveknj said:


> I assume you are talking about traditional network and basic cable? If you have Netflix, HBOMax, AppleTV+, Disney+ and so on, there's lots of quality, or fun, or interesting stuff. If can't find something decent to watch, you aren't trying.


I assume they are talking about a live streaming service. If so, I fully understand. Live streaming is convenient but hardly the place to find new, original and interesting content IMO. The networks aren't even trying hard these days it seems. The trend is to move the new and best stuff over to the on demand services and apps.

The exception is sports, live streaming is the only good way for a big sports fan, everything else is available in other ways.


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

The drug dealer guy had him a bad case of the closetphobia.


----------



## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

I think my Tivo is trying to protect me. I keep seeing plot points mentioned here, that I don't remember happening.

I then check my folder/onepass, and nope, no new episodes.

I think check Suggestions, and there's yesterday's airing. It's clearly linked to the onepass (that recorded eps 1-4), but, somehow is broken. I think it's trying to hide the show from me for my own good.


----------



## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

That Don Guy said:


> And then they can add somebody who was in an earlier show with somebody now engaged to a prince...oh, wait, that was _Timeless_.
> 
> Er, you are aware that California was (a) a state and (b) still in the Union when the Civil War started, right? In fact, I'm pretty sure there were Union troops stationed in southern California, if for no other reason than to prevent Confederate troops from marching from Texas through the Arizona territory and attacking.


What your talking about took place in another timeline.


----------



## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

jamesbobo said:


> Perhaps these sinkholes aren't something brand new, maybe they occurred in the past as well. Don't ask why nobody knew about them.


One of the characters on the show agrees with me. This refers to the civil war gold


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jamesbobo said:


> One of the characters on the show agrees with me. This refers to the civil war gold


Plus another character who says people have been coming through as long as anybody can remember...


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

So, future time is constantly changing due to the changes in the past. New generations in 50,000 BC with 21st Century knowledge will certainly have an effect. At a minimum, leave a node for your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great….. grandkids to buy Apple, or better, give them the iPhone you took with you in 50,000 BC and tell them to get a patent.


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

Or better, go back to One Million Years B.C.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

'La Brea' Renewed for Season 2 at NBC - Variety


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Tony_T said:


> 'La Brea' Renewed for Season 2 at NBC - Variety


Unbelievable. Or not. I'm fine with watching this without judgement. Or watching it while taking a drink every time something doesn't make sense, lol.

It feels like I'm watching a show from back in the days of having only a few channels, when we watched whatever was on regardless of quality. Hey it's fine. And it's got Natalie Zea.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I'm one of those who can't for the life of me imagine why I like this show, but somehow I do. Judging from this thread, I'm not the only one.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Like a car crash, I just can’t look away.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Unbelievable. Or not. I'm fine with watching this without judgement. Or watching it while taking a drink every time something doesn't make sense, lol.
> 
> It feels like I'm watching a show from back in the days of having only a few channels, when we watched whatever was on regardless of quality. Hey it's fine. And it's got Natalie Zea.


It'd have gone well with a show like Galactica 1980.


----------



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm one of those who can't for the life of me imagine why I like this show, but somehow I do. Judging from this thread, I'm not the only one.


I love this show. It's got everything. I love time travel books/shows/movies. And when it's done this badly, I love making fun of it. This is one of the few shows I watch as soon as I see it's been recorded.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I love this show. It's got everything. I love time travel books/shows/movies. And when it's done this badly, I love making fun of it. This is one of the few shows I watch as soon as I see it's been recorded.


I was going to say this too... but... I'm reading this thread as I'm halfway through Tue 11/9 S1E7 "The Storm." Yeah. With a show like this, I really don't care about spoilers.


----------



## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Wow, they rescued Marybeth & Lucas right before the concrete tunnel collapsed. Whew! Whodathunk?!?


"Remember how they opened the hatch on Lost? They used old dynamite they found on the island. Then "Bam!" blew it right open."
I'll just ignore how their gunpowder IED wouldn't explode like that.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

justen_m said:


> "Remember how they opened the hatch on Lost? They used old dynamite they found on the island. Then "Bam!" blew it right open."
> I'll just ignore how their gunpowder IED wouldn't explode like that.


At least Lost recognized that old dynamite is volatile.


----------



## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I was bad mouthing this show early on. It's still bad, yet here I am, all caught up and still watching. Go figure.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Ask Matt: Is 'La Brea' Meant to Be a Joke?


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

gchance said:


> Ask Matt: Is 'La Brea' Meant to Be a Joke?


"Squandered childhood", lol. Yup, it's one of those shows.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Speaking of incredibly stupid things that I just can't not watch, there's a new Netflix movie called Red Notice that makes La Brea look like it should win the Nobel Prize for Literature. Yet somehow it's perfectly watchable (well, three somehows: Dwayne Johnson, Ryan Reynolds, and Gal Gadot).

But MAN is it stupid!


----------



## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Speaking of incredibly stupid things that I just can't not watch, there's a new Netflix movie called Red Notice that makes La Brea look like it should win the Nobel Prize for Literature. Yet somehow it's perfectly watchable (well, three somehows: Dwayne Johnson, Ryan Reynolds, and Gal Gadot).
> 
> But MAN is it stupid!


I have it on my List for one reason and ONE reason only...#GalGadot LOL


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

I didn't realize this was only going to be a 10 episode season. I guess that explains the relatively quick second season renewal.


I don't know if they could have found someone who looks less like the adult Gavin than the kid they cast to play the young Gavin. His "grandfather" will likely turn out to be a version of Gavin who found a sinkhole in 2050 but ended up going even further into the past.

I'm going to guess that the girl he was found with in 1988 will turn out to be the kidnapped girl from the La Brea sinkhole. Also, if the shows runs long enough, we'll find out that she was kidnapped because the man who kidnapped her knew that she was destined to fall through the sinkhole and needed to be there to accompany young Gavin back to 1988.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Yeah, this time travel looping bit is going to drive me away. They have two episodes left to make it work. I find most time travel shows become so convoluted they lose me. Making up rules, things that make no sense, etc.

But I'll give them these last two episodes to pull it off.

I loved the preview...

THE LAST EPISODE!!!
_before the finale_


----------



## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Wow a trope avoided... I thought they'd follow the usual mode and have Rebecca die before she could pass on the information. At least these people are talking to each other.


----------



## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Why didn’t Rebecca tell Gavin what was going on with him before they got on the plane? (and before she jumped out giving him a cryptic clue) — yes, I know, TV


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> Wow a trope avoided... I thought they'd follow the usual mode and have Rebecca die before she could pass on the information. At least these people are talking to each other.


So did I! In fact as it unfolded I told my wife, "I won't tell you&#8230; and now I'll&#8230; die&#8230;"

Like in the Naked Gun movie: "The killer&#8230; is&#8230; <dies>" "OK WHO ELSE IS ALMOST DEAD???"


----------



## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

getbak said:


> I don't know if they could have found someone who looks less like the adult Gavin than the kid they cast to play the young Gavin. His "grandfather" will likely turn out to be a version of Gavin who found a sinkhole in 2050 but ended up going even further into the past.


In that case, since it has been established that changes in the past immediately change their future ("we found a plane crash...oh, wait, it just vanished"), if young Gavin dies, then both "present" Gavin and "Grandfather Gavin" just disappear, right?


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> In that case, since it has been established that changes in the past immediately change their future ("we found a plane crash...oh, wait, it just vanished"), if young Gavin dies, then both "present" Gavin and "Grandfather Gavin" just disappear, right?


So it's Gavins all the way down? Huh... Who'd a thunk it?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

“There’s a portal to 1988, its open now”
So, lets all go home to 1988, wait 12 years, and put all of our money in AAPL and AMZN after the dot.com crash


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Speaking of incredibly stupid things that I just can't not watch, there's a new Netflix movie called Red Notice that makes La Brea look like it should win the Nobel Prize for Literature. Yet somehow it's perfectly watchable (well, three somehows: Dwayne Johnson, Ryan Reynolds, and Gal Gadot).
> 
> But MAN is it stupid!


At least you didn't pay to see it in the Theater!


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Well, that was interesting. Season finale next week. 

Someone upthread figured Lilly as the little girl that was found with Gavin/Isaiah in '88. If I was down there knowing what was upcoming in the next 30+ years I'd make money in the stock market and via betting on sports and stuff then leave a chunk of it for my younger self (I was 25 in 1988) along with some notes of what not to do with my/our future over the next few years and see what happens. Ought to make an interesting experiment.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I don’t know why any of them would be hesitant to leave 50,000 BC for 1988. And not one of them realized that they could be billionaires after a few years if they did.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

getbak said:


> I'm going to guess that the girl he was found with in 1988 will turn out to be the kidnapped girl from the La Brea sinkhole.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

Craigbob said:


> along with some notes of what not to do with my/our future over the next few years and see what happens. Ought to make an interesting experiment.


Like "Where you go to live, stay the hell away from Los Angeles in 2021"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hell, 2021 might be a good reason to stay in 10,000 BC!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Because when you pass over to the new timeline, it seems like you get amnesia. So they would not be rich. Besides, what happens to their other self already in 1988?

Oh, and the amnesia only works going forwards in time, not backwards. It's science!


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

You have to suspend all logic but how is Lilly 2 people in 2021. She is Ella Jones who we know now is Lily but young Lily fell into the sinkhole in 2021 so how are they both in the same year at different ages. Veronica has the same last name as Lilly so I am guessing she may be her mother, the age would be right.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mike Gregory said:


> You have to suspend all logic but how is Lilly 2 people in 2021. She is Ella Jones who we know now is Lily but young Lily fell into the sinkhole in 2021 so how are they both in the same year at different ages.


Why is that a problem? It's like she was born in Miami, moved to Dallas, then moved back to Miami. How can she be in Miami at two different ages? Well, easily...she moved twice. Lily/Ella moved twice...once to the distant past, then to the not-so-distant past.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Ouch! My head hurts.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

And they could always introduce the Many Worlds Theory and have them in a past in a different world


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Why is that a problem? It's like she was born in Miami, moved to Dallas, then moved back to Miami. How can she be in Miami at two different ages? Well, easily...she moved twice. Lily/Ella moved twice...once to the distant past, then to the not-so-distant past.


That makes no sense, you have adult Lily and child Lily both in 2021 - moving back and forth to different states in the present is not even relevant to my comment. Lily came back up in 1988 and young Lily was born while she was here.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mike Gregory said:


> That makes no sense, you have adult Lily and child Lily both in 2021 - moving back and forth to different states in the present is not even relevant to my comment. Lily came back up in 1988 and young Lily was born while she was here.


But again, what's the problem? She time-traveled. That's no different than space-traveling. Older her being alive at the same time as younger her doesn't present any kind of paradox whatsoever (unless older her kills younger her!).

It makes perfect sense. I think you're just confused by the very existence of time travel in the story, which is not uncommon. Even some science fiction writers get strangely confused...there is a well-regarded comic book writer who did a series the whole premise of which was that people who time-travel to the past can't die because they haven't been born yet. I assumed at first that it was the characters who were being that stupid (and was waiting for the moment when they would realize their fatal mistake), but it turned out to be true in the story...it was the writer who was confused by time travel, and didn't understand what would and would not constitute a paradox.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

I understand the paradox, but in most time travel they come and go, but in this case Ella (Lily) has now been in present day from 1988 to 2021. Now young Lily is about 12 so say born 2009, who are her parents? I am going to guess Veronica will play more of a piece to this puzzle since she has the same last name and also knows who the grandfather is and vice versa.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mike Gregory said:


> I understand the paradox, but in most time travel they come and go, but in this case Ella (Lily) has now been in present day from 1988 to 2021. Now young Lily is about 12 so say born 2009, who are her parents? I am going to guess Veronica will play more of a piece to this puzzle since she has the same last name and also knows who the grandfather is and vice versa.


Again, what difference does any of that make? Older Lily coming back in the past won't change who her parents are in the present.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

But in this case younger Lily falls into the sinkhole in 2021 and goes back up in 1988. But since this sinkhole does not open until today, older Lily cannot be in 2021 yet when it opens.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mike Gregory said:


> But in this case younger Lily falls into the sinkhole in 2021 and goes back up in 1988. But since this sinkhole does not open until today, older Lily cannot be in 2021 yet when it opens.


Different sinkhole. They obviously don't have a 1:1 linkage in terms of when they open here and there.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I agree that Veronica is probably Lilly’s mother and I think that the Father is the guy who kidnapped Veronica.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Different sinkhole. They obviously don't have a 1:1 linkage in terms of when they open here and there.


NO - you can't just make up there was another sinkhole. We know Ella is in present day 2021 and she is in present day 2021 when LIly falls into the sinkhole. It is a definite hole in the plot.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Tony_T said:


> I agree that Veronica is probably Lilly's mother and I think that the Father is the guy who kidnapped Veronica.


When is Veronica kidnapped and by whom?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Mike Gregory said:


> NO - you can't just make up there was another sinkhole. We know Ella is in present day 2021 and she is in present day 2021 when LIly falls into the sinkhole. It is a definite hole in the plot.


There are many sinkholes (i.e. Gold fell into one from the Civil War).


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Tony_T said:


> There are many sinkholes (i.e. Gold fell into one from the Civil War).


Yes but WE KNOW Ella is here on the day Lily falls into the sinkhole.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Mike Gregory said:


> When is Veronica kidnapped and by whom?


IIRC, didn't Veronica run away from home and then went to live with the guy she said was her father? If so, that to me was kidnapping.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Mike Gregory said:


> Yes but WE KNOW Ella is here on the day Lily falls into the sinkhole.


I'm confused now on that point. I don't recall enough of what happened


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Sorry got the wrong person Dr. Aldridge is her mother as she knows who Gavin was and also who Silas is


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I feel confused like the Stoner Guy after a hit now


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

I don't see what the problem is.

This appears to be the timeline of Lilly/Ella's life:

~2007-2009 : Lilly is born
Unknown date ~2016-2020 : Lilly is kidnapped by Veronica and their "father"
2021 : Sinkhole in La Brea opens up and Lilly, Veronica and their "father" fall through it passing through a time portal to the distant past
~10,000 BC : Everything we've seen on the show happens --- Eventually, Lilly and Isaiah go through another time portal in Topanga, which takes them to 1988
1988 : Lilly and Isaiah -- seemingly having lost their memory of what has happened in their lives before -- are found wandering along a road and each are adopted by new families and given new names of Ella and Gavin
1988 - 2021 : Ella -- with no memory of her life as Lilly -- lives a normal life, growing into the woman we met in recent episodes

The loss of memory thing seems to get rid of all the problems you usually get in stories where someone travels into their own past. Ella has no idea that she was once Lilly, so she has no reason to ever seek out Lilly or interfere with her life at all.

She said she didn't start having any flashes from 10,000 BC until after the portal opened and by then, young Lilly was no longer in the same timeline as adult Ella.

In 1988, no one would have been looking for a girl who won't be kidnapped for another ~30 years, and when Lilly was kidnapped, no one would have thought "what if she's that 40 year-old woman over there?"

Every time travel show gets to make its own rules for how time travel works, and as long as they're internally consistent, there shouldn't be a problem. As far as I can remember, this show has been consistent so far.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

getbak said:


> I don't see what the problem is.
> 
> This appears to be the timeline of Lilly/Ella's life:
> 
> ...


I appreciate the detailed reply - the issue is in time travel they usually go through time in some sort of weird science way or machine, but here it is a physical hole and young Lily falls into it -and so if she falls into the hole in 2021 she has not been able to come back up in 1988 because the current day hole has just opened.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mike Gregory said:


> I appreciate the detailed reply - the issue is in time travel they usually go through time in some sort of weird science way or machine, but here it is a physical hole and young Lily falls into it -and so if she falls into the hole in 2021 she has not been able to come back up in 1988 because the current day hole has just opened.


IT'S A DIFFERENT HOLE!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> IT'S A DIFFERENT HOLE!


LOL...

I don't know why this little fact is beyond comprehension.


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## ThePhoenix (Feb 13, 2008)

getbak said:


> I don't see what the problem is.
> 
> This appears to be the timeline of Lilly/Ella's life:
> 
> ...


 But the boy (Josh?) and his sister Izzy will both die if Isaiah doesn't make it through the sinkhole and become Gavin? That doesn't seem consistent with allowing two Lily's.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ThePhoenix said:


> But the boy (Josh?) and his sister Izzy will both die if Isaiah doesn't make it through the sinkhole and become Gavin? That doesn't seem consistent with allowing two Lily's.


Sure it is. If Isaiah doesn't go through the 1988 wormhole, then the kids will never have been born (because Isaiah won't grow up to become Gavin). And if Lily doesn't go through the wormhole, then she'll never grow up to become Ella.

So if Lily and Isaiah don't go through the wormhole, then everything changes. Which is why I assume they go through the wormhole.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

IIRC, they only care about getting Isaiah to the reverse sinkhole to “save his family”, but aren’t concerned about Lilly


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tony_T said:


> IIRC, they only care about getting Isaiah to the reverse sinkhole to "save his family", but aren't concerned about Lilly


Yeah, do they (the people in the past) even know Emma exists? Or that Lilly goes through? I thought it was just the Present People who knew about her...


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> IT'S A DIFFERENT HOLE!


Where is a different hole? Ella and Lily are both here in 2021 at the same time. On the day Lily falls into the hole in 2021, Ella is also here. So if Lily first falls into the hole in 2021, how does she have the ability to come back up through a hole 30 years ago and be in present day 2021?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Those are all different stages of her life. She passes from one to the next. getbak laid it out very neatly.

The first hole took young Lilly from 2021 to 10,000BC. The second hole took very slightly older Lily from 10,000BC to 1988. From there, she changed her name to Ella and lived a normal life until 2021 (and beyond, assuming she survives the show!).


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Those are all different stages of her life. She passes from one to the next. getbak laid it out very neatly.
> 
> The first hole took young Lilly from 2021 to 10,000BC. The second hole took very slightly older Lily from 10,000BC to 1988. From there, she changed her name to Ella and lived a normal life until 2021 (and beyond, assuming she survives the show!).


That is what the show is showing you - what I am saying is young Lily falls into the hole in 2021, and also in 2021 Ella (older Lily) exists. How can Ella (older Lily) exist in 2021 if younger Lily has not fallen through the hole to 10,000BC yet to even get to the 2nd hole that brings her back to 1988.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

> That is what the show is showing you - what I am saying is young Lily falls into the hole in 2021, and also in 2021 Ella (older Lily) exists. How can Ella (older Lily) exist in 2021 if younger Lily has not fallen through the hole to 10,000BC yet to even get to the 2nd hole that brings her back to 1988.


Because she arrived in 10,000 BC from a hole in 2021, she can travel to 1988, live a while, and fall into a hole in 2021. This is time travel, cause doesn't have to come before effect. And logic can be entirely circular, and if there is an anchor point to the logic, it doesn't necessarily have to be the persons birth.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Folks, there was a freakin' MAP showing the location of different sink holes. Ones in the Mojave, La Brea, Topanga, and one about to open in Seattle. Didn't anybody else see the map?


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

kdmorse said:


> Because she arrived in 10,000 BC from a hole in 2021, she can travel to 1988, live a while, and fall into a hole in 2021. This is time travel, cause doesn't have to come before effect. And logic can be entirely circular, and if there is an anchor point to the logic, it doesn't necessarily have to be the persons birth.


There is a gap in logic here. Let's go back to Back to the Future. They can freely time travel at any point using the car, they do not have to wait for a specific event except the lightening storm or the train because of the car not functioning properly, but we are here in 2021, Lily and Ella are here in 2021. Lily only falls into the hole in 2021, the other holes on the map are all at different years except the Seattle one which is about to open. If Lily is still here in present day and does not fall into the hole until present day, then how was she able to come up through the 1988 hole and become Ella who has now been here for 30 years.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mike Gregory said:


> There is a gap in logic here. Let's go back to Back to the Future. They can freely time travel at any point using the car, they do not have to wait for a specific event except the lightening storm or the train because of the car not functioning properly, but we are here in 2021, Lily and Ella are here in 2021. Lily only falls into the hole in 2021, the other holes on the map are all at different years except the Seattle one which is about to open. If Lily is still here in present day and does not fall into the hole until present day, then how was she able to come up through the 1988 hole and become Ella who has now been here for 30 years.


The Lily who is here in the present day isn't exactly the same Lily who will go through the hole in 10,000BC to 1988. Present day Lily is a few days younger than 10,000BC Lily. And present day Ella is a few decades older. They're just different stages of one person's life, who happens to have traveled through time a couple of times.

There's no reason two different ages of a person can't exist at the same time, assuming time travel is possible in the first place (which clearly this show posits).


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Because, Time Travel! That's how it works (actually there are many different ways it can work but that's how it works here). Just follow ONE LIFETIME of Lily. If there are no loops and everything is covered, then you're fine. It doesn't matter that there are two different "instances" of one person existing at the same time, of different ages. That's fine. In theory there can even be more than two at the same time.

getbak laid it out.

Since you brought up Back to the Future, consider Back to the Future II: in this movie, Marty actually goes back AGAIN to the same time in the past that he went in Back to the Future: now there are two different Marty's, of different ages, in the same time. And second Marty manipulates the situations that first Marty created.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

1. Lilly is born in 2011 to some unknown parents.
2. at some point, Lilly is kidnapped.
3. In 2021, Lilly falls through the Labrea sinkhole to 10,000 BC
4. a week or so later, Lilly climbs through a different hole to 1988 with young Gavin. Both lose their memory.
5. Lilly is adopted by some family and is now called Ella. We meet her in 2021.
6. Back to step 1...Lilly is born in 2011


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Mike Gregory said:


> That is what the show is showing you - what I am saying is young Lily falls into the hole in 2021, and also in 2021 Ella (older Lily) exists. How can Ella (older Lily) exist in 2021 if younger Lily has not fallen through the hole to 10,000BC yet to even get to the 2nd hole that brings her back to 1988.


Keep in mind that this show has already played the "the present can change the past" card - remember the plane wreck from 10,000 BC that vanished when they got the iPad message and ended up not trying to fly the plane? If Lily doesn't return to 1988, then chances are Ella vanishes, or gets the mysterious "you never existed" sickness.



Anubys said:


> 1. Lilly is born in 2011 to some unknown parents.
> 2. at some point, Lilly is kidnapped.
> 3. In 2021, Lilly falls through the Labrea sinkhole to 10,000 BC
> 4. a week or so later, Lilly climbs through a different hole to 1988 with young Gavin. Both lose their memory.
> ...


Please, please, please, pleasepleaseplease, PLEASE, did I mention "please," *please* have 6 be something other than:
6. In 2011, effectively-33-year-old Ella gives birth to Lily. (Besides, _Futurama_ already kinda sorta did it with Fry being his own grandfather.)

I also wonder what the importance of Seattle will be, since the sinkholes don't move geographically between the present and the past.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

I can comprehend that 2 Lilly/Emma can exist in the same year, the issue with this storyline is that the portal for young Lily does not open up until 2021. This is the only access point we know of so far where she falls in. If she cannot have fallen in until 2021 then there is no way for that Lily can go up to 1988 and become Ella. The answer may become aware to us when he see where Isiah and Silas came down, as it is clear Dr. Aldridge knows who they are.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mike Gregory said:


> I can comprehend that 2 Lilly/Emma can exist in the same year, the issue with this storyline is that the portal for young Lily does not open up until 2021. This is the only access point we know of so far where she falls in. If she cannot have fallen in until 2021 then there is no way for that Lily can go up to 1988 and become Ella. The answer may become aware to us when he see where Isiah and Silas came down, as it is clear Dr. Aldridge knows who they are.


No offense, but I think you're just one of those people who doesn't grasp time travel as a concept.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

La Brea Creator Stands by Decision to Not Get Bogged Down by Minutia


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I _was_ going to mention the "cow harness"


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

astrohip said:


> La Brea Creator Stands by Decision to Not Get Bogged Down by Minutia


In a very real way, it's an expectations issue. This was hyped up as a serious drama. Instead, we got "Look, a cow! And no, we're not going to elaborate - there's a cow, it came with a harness, suck it up!".

If we had known going in it was going to be more on the, shall we say, absurd side - we'd probably be a bit more forgiving.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No offense, but I think you're just one of those people who doesn't grasp time travel as a concept.


There is some need to expand your reality, but slightly older Lily, they have been down there less than a week. The issue is there is no way for Lily to come up in 1988 and exist as Ella in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up and sends Lily down. There is no other method to move through time and she does not fall though any other sinkhole that has been established. As I said Dr. Aldridge will shed some light on the subject.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Mike Gregory said:


> I can comprehend that 2 Lilly/Emma can exist in the same year, the issue with this storyline is that the portal for young Lily does not open up until 2021. This is the only access point we know of so far where she falls in. If she cannot have fallen in until 2021 then there is no way for that Lily can go up to 1988 and become Ella.


I think you might be punking us? Both getbak and Anubys have explained it clearly.

The access point that opened in 2021 has nothing at all to do with Lily traveling to 1988. There's a portal "A" that opened in 2021 that lets people from 2021 travel to 10,000 BC. There's a different portal "B" that opened in 10,000 BC that lets people from 10,000 BC travel to 1988.

Lily went through both of them, in turn: she was born in 2011. Lily traveled through portal A from 2021 to 10,000 BC. She lived in 10,000 BC for a week or whatever. Then she traveled through portal B from 10,000 BC to 1988. Then she lived, starting in 1988, as Ella.


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## Mike Gregory (Nov 27, 2021)

madscientist said:


> I think you might be punking us? Both getbak and Anubys have explained it clearly.
> 
> The access point that opened in 2021 has nothing at all to do with Lily traveling to 1988. There's a portal "A" that opened in 2021 that lets people from 2021 travel to 10,000 BC. There's a different portal "B" that opened in 10,000 BC that lets people from 10,000 BC travel to 1988.
> 
> Lily went through both of them, in turn: she was born in 2011. Lily traveled through portal A from 2021 to 10,000 BC. She lived in 10,000 BC for a week or whatever. Then she traveled through portal B from 10,000 BC to 1988. Then she lived, starting in 1988, as Ella.


Not punking just pointing out the plot hole in this one case - Ella cannot exist in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up, if Lily does not go into the sinkhole in 2021 then Ella can never exist in 1988 because the future has not happened yet. For the scenario to actually work 2021 would have to come before 1988. I will wait and see what the writers give us.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Oh, you're worried about the old "how did the very first instance of the cycle happen" question? That's a common problem in some types of time travel plots. One type of time travel story where it isn't an issue is when the person traveling in time has no effect at all on the timeline, at least as perceived by the people in that timeline. Then you can assume that the "first time" there was no future person there to do anything.

This is clearly not that kind of time travel story.

There are two possibilities here: if Ella never interacts with Lily then we can just assume that the first time through the cycle Ella didn't exist, and when Lily goes back then forward through time "the first time" she changes history and Ella now exists. Since the cycle doesn't create a closed loop there's no inconsistency (other than changing history of course).

If Ella and Lily do interact in some way, creating a closed loop, then I don't think you should hold your breath waiting for an answer to this. In stories where there is a loop like this there's never any explanation as to how the first iteration of the loop occurred. It's assumed that the loop always existed, and will always exist.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

That Don Guy said:


> Keep in mind that this show has already played the "the present can change the past" card - remember the plane wreck from 10,000 BC that vanished when they got the iPad message and ended up not trying to fly the plane? If Lily doesn't return to 1988, then chances are Ella vanishes, or gets the mysterious "you never existed" sickness.
> 
> Please, please, please, pleasepleaseplease, PLEASE, did I mention "please," *please* have 6 be something other than:
> 6. In 2011, effectively-33-year-old Ella gives birth to Lily. (Besides, _Futurama_ already kinda sorta did it with Fry being his own grandfather.)
> ...


Is that directed at me? cause I made it clear Lilly was born to some unknown parents; not Ella...if it's a comment about how you don't want to show to go, um...ok!


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Oh, you're worried about the old "how did the very first instance of the cycle happen" question? That's a common problem in some types of time travel plots. One type of time travel story where it isn't an issue is when the person traveling in time has no effect at all on the timeline, at least as perceived by the people in that timeline. Then you can assume that the "first time" there was no future person there to do anything.
> 
> This is clearly not that kind of time travel story.
> 
> ...


Yah, I spent a whole bunch of mental power trying to figure out if what we know so far is technically a Bootstrap paradox, or not. At the moment, I'm going to say it's not, and stop thinking about it. Sure, there are 'out of order' events, and events that can not occur unless events events following them (in linear time) occur. And sure, that dependency is a little stronger here than you'd find in an average time travel story, but so far it doesn't come close to a paradox, and at this point might not even be a markovian self consistency loop.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

That Don Guy said:


> Please, please, please, pleasepleaseplease, PLEASE, did I mention "please," *please* have 6 be something other than:
> 6. In 2011, effectively-33-year-old Ella gives birth to Lily. (Besides, _Futurama_ already kinda sorta did it with Fry being his own grandfather.)


I think Heinline has this one covered in story "All you Zombies", recently made into the movie Predestination.


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## Follower10 (Nov 30, 2021)

If you watch earlier episodes you'll see that Gavins "memories" were of things that were out of eyesight of child Gavin. How does that work?


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Mike Gregory said:


> Not punking just pointing out the plot hole in this one case - Ella cannot exist in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up, if Lily does not go into the sinkhole in 2021 then Ella can never exist in 1988 because the future has not happened yet. For the scenario to actually work 2021 would have to come before 1988. I will wait and see what the writers give us.


Don't try watching Dark if this is confusing.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Follower10 said:


> If you watch earlier episodes you'll see that Gavins "memories" were of things that were out of eyesight of child Gavin. How does that work?


They explained that by having Isaiah admitting that he was in the woods spying on the group.


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## That Don Guy (Mar 13, 2003)

Mike Gregory said:


> Not punking just pointing out the plot hole in this one case - Ella cannot exist in 2021 until the sinkhole in 2021 opens up, if Lily does not go into the sinkhole in 2021 then Ella can never exist in 1988 because the future has not happened yet. For the scenario to actually work 2021 would have to come before 1988. I will wait and see what the writers give us.


I think I understand what you're saying - "Lily hasn't gone through the wormhole yet, and what happens in 10,000 BC affects the present, so Ella can't exist yet." That's not entirely true; remember, the wrecked plane existed before it ever took off - it was only after the past changed so that it never took off did the wreckage disappear. In this version of time travel, Ella exists until/unless Lily doesn't go through the wormhole from 10,000 BC to 1988.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Did the Present People know that the wrecked plane in the future “disappeared”? IIRC, they did, and if so, how could they if the timeline changed?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Speaking of incredibly stupid things that I just can't not watch, there's a new Netflix movie called Red Notice that makes La Brea look like it should win the Nobel Prize for Literature. Yet somehow it's perfectly watchable (well, three somehows: Dwayne Johnson, Ryan Reynolds, and Gal Gadot).
> 
> But MAN is it stupid!


Totally agree, but the interaction between DJ and RR was really good, even if the story was incredibly stupid.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Totally agree, but the interaction between DJ and RR was really good, even if the story was incredibly stupid.


Oh, I enjoyed it a lot.

But it was SO STUPID!

But I liked it.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Oh, I enjoyed it a lot.
> 
> But it was SO STUPID!
> 
> But I liked it.


Sometimes I'm just in the mood for something like that. Mindless fun. I wouldn't watch it again, but I enjoyed it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Sometimes I'm just in the mood for something like that. Mindless fun. I wouldn't watch it again, but I enjoyed it.


Yeah, most of the time that level of stupid feels like getting punched in the face. But somehow, these people make it work. Both on this show, and especially on Red Notice.

I'm actually gonna kind of miss the show after the season finalé tonight!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Ars Technica: Why the [expletive] can't we travel back in time?


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## Follower10 (Nov 30, 2021)

Tony_T said:


> They explained that by having Isaiah admitting that he was in the woods spying on the group.


Doesn't work for me because some of the "memories" are close up and lil' gavin was not that close.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

"Believe it or not, this isn't the first time I've been stabbed"

Oddly enough, I believe it.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Follower10 said:


> Doesn't work for me because some of the "memories" are close up and lil' gavin was not that close.


_That's_ what doesn't work?


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## Follower10 (Nov 30, 2021)

Tony_T said:


> They explained that by having Isaiah admitting that he was in the woods spying on the group.


Doesn't work for me because some of the "memories" are close up and lil' gavin was not that close.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

There's a lot to unpack about the finale. So if I got it figured out right, Gavin, Izzy, and Ella/Lilly are now in prehistoric Seattle presumably in the same time as the La Brea sinkhole crew. Isaiah/Gavin isin 1988 near Topanga, and who the hell knows where Riley, Josh, Lilly/Ella have gone off to I'd have to say 1988 since that's where Lilly was found and we haven't had any reason to think that the wormhole(s) deposit different people in different time frames. 

Not to mention that Aldridge says they're responsible for the sinkholes/time travel and leads Scott to this modern solar powered building. 

At least we get some answers and I expect S2 will follow 1988 and 10,000 bce and leave 2021 behind as there's no one there we need to follow.


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

And forget the harness, the cow has a serial number.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

kdmorse said:


> And forget the harness, the cow has a serial number.


Obviously a "sinkhole" cow and not a period cow. Never mind what sinkhole, or what the hell was it doing in downtown LA. Details. I'm sure this show has no book of canon to deal with questions like that, or any of the difficult questions we overthink here.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

The writers do not seem to be aware that those traps only work on animals because animals do not have hands. The trap is made specifically so humans can open them but animals cannot.


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## Jeff_in_Bklyn (Apr 26, 2003)

I liked this show better when it was called DARK. (not really the same but some of the concepts are there)


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Did whats-his-name just forget about taking the drugs and gold with him to 1988?
And why would she try to break the chain on the trap when the both of them could just pry it open? It can’t be that strong a trap as it didn’t seem to break her leg (and where did the forged chain come from anyway?)

Love the lazy writers on this show


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## kdmorse (Jan 29, 2001)

Tony_T said:


> (and where did the forged chain come from anyway?)


Cow brought it in and set the trap.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Craigbob said:


> At least we get some answers and I expect S2 will follow 1988 and 10,000 bce and leave 2021 behind as there's no one there we need to follow.


...although we may see what the 1988 crew was up to leading up to 2021 (could Josh and Riley have had anything to do with the origin of the sinkholes?).

We also need to find out who Grandpa was in the modern era, before he went to the distant past. And who Isaiah's parents were?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Isn't Grandpa a scientist who worked with Aldridge and part of the team that caused the sinkholes?

And with all the "butterflies", how is the future not more advanced now that modern technology has been introduced to 50k 10k BC?


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Jeff_in_Bklyn said:


> I liked this show better when it was called DARK. (not really the same but some of the concepts are there)


Comparing Dark to Labrea is like comparing Mozart to a current top 40 hit that has a violin in the background.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

isn't it 10,000 BC? why do people here keep saying 50,000 BC?


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

I watched the first two episodes last night. Does it get any better? I hope so, because it's pretty darn bad so far.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

gweempose said:


> I watched the first two episodes last night. Does it get any better? I hope so, because it's pretty darn bad so far.


Did you experience Under the Dome (aka Under the Dumb)? if you did, you can approach this one the same way: enjoy the absurdity of it...

we watch it BECAUSE it's bad...then we come here and laugh about it.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> we watch it BECAUSE it's bad...then we come here and laugh about it.


The disadvantage to watching it delayed is that I won't even be able to come here every week and make fun of it with you guys.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

There will be a season 2, so at least you won’t have any unresolved cliffhangers


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Tony_T said:


> There will be a season 2, so at least you won't have any unresolved cliffhangers


That's actually the main reason I didn't start watching the show right away. When it comes to big budget sci-fi shows like this, I've been burned many times in the past. More often than not, the show only lasts one season and ends on a cliffhanger. In fact, this just happened last season with Debris. Against my better judgement, I watched the show before knowing if it was renewed or not. Sure enough, it had a crazy cliffhanger ending and then was cancelled a few days later. Very frustrating!


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

kdmorse said:


> And forget the harness, the cow has a serial number.


How did the cow get down there without breaking it's legs? did uit just wander into one of those lights that was like the one on the hill?



Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...although we may see what the 1988 crew was up to leading up to 2021 (could Josh and Riley have had anything to do with the origin of the sinkholes?).
> 
> We also need to find out who Grandpa was in the modern era, before he went to the distant past. And who Isaiah's parents were?


We know that Silas (Isaiah's grandpa) was one of the scientists working on the time travel/sinkhole project. How Isaiah/gavin wound up in the past and who his parents are is something I think we'll find out next season. Here's a fun though icky thought, Josh and Riley are Isaiah's parents. Silas is future Gavin. Everything is a closed circle.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Craigbob said:


> How did the cow get down there without breaking it's legs? did uit just wander into one of those lights that was like the one on the hill?


Probably by wandering through a light, but only because there are no cows in LA where the sinkhole opened.

Another question is how is it that the buildings and vehicles were damaged when the living survived the fall?

And gotta love how quickly they evacuated Seattle


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Tony_T said:


> And gotta love how quickly they evacuated Seattle


It's the coffee.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Yeah, if you tried to evacuate a big city there'd be accidents and crime and car crashes everywhere....that's why they never tell us when aliens land.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> That's actually the main reason I didn't start watching the show right away. When it comes to big budget sci-fi shows like this, I've been burned many times in the past. More often than not, the show only lasts one season and ends on a cliffhanger. In fact, this just happened last season with Debris. Against my better judgement, I watched the show before knowing if it was renewed or not. Sure enough, it had a crazy cliffhanger ending and then was cancelled a few days later. Very frustrating!


Meh, I say, if you enjoyed the show when it was on, and even if there's a cliffhanger and the show gets cancelled, then it was worth it and you weren't "burned". You just didn't get the payoff you wanted. For example, if you read The Song of Fire and Ice books and GRRM dies before he ever finishes the series, will you feel like you got burned or did you enjoy all the books, despite the story never being finished? That's how I look at it. It's a fun ride while it lasted.

As for this series, it's so dumb, that it's entertaining, in a 1950s B Movie kind of way. I am completely lost as to the whole story line and where it's going, and I honestly don't care because I'm just yelling at the TV about how absurd it all is.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

Craigbob said:


> We know that Silas (Isaiah's grandpa) was one of the scientists working on the time travel/sinkhole project. How Isaiah/gavin wound up in the past and who his parents are is something I think we'll find out next season. Here's a fun though icky thought, Josh and Riley are Isaiah's parents. Silas is future Gavin. Everything is a closed circle.


I agree. That's the logical motivation.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> As for this series, it's so dumb, that it's entertaining, in a 1950s B Movie kind of way. I am completely lost as to the whole story line and where it's going, and I honestly don't care because I'm just yelling at the TV about how absurd it all is.


So then I guess the question is, did they actually set out to make a "dumb" show, or is it just the result of incompetence?


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Writer Laziness


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

gweempose said:


> So then I guess the question is, did they actually set out to make a "dumb" show, or is it just the result of incompetence?


Oh, I'm sure they thought it was brilliant! Consensus here is not so much


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> Oh, I'm sure they thought it was brilliant! Consensus here is not so much


With Hollywood, it's incompetence until proven otherwise.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

La Brea Creator Sheds Light on [Spoiler]'s Vanishing and the Season 1 Finale's Other Big Twists


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

Season 2 crossover


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## Gomezaddams51 (Nov 10, 2021)

JohnS-MI said:


> Obviously a "sinkhole" cow and not a period cow. Never mind what sinkhole, or what the hell was it doing in downtown LA. Details. I'm sure this show has no book of canon to deal with questions like that, or any of the difficult questions we overthink here.


I doubt the cow was in LA intentionally, in fact it may not have been anywhere near LA. I would imagine the scientists who created the worm holes sent it through another worm hole, hence the Barcode on it. You would want to number your experiments. Similar to when they sent animals into space first before they sent humans.


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## Gomezaddams51 (Nov 10, 2021)

Craigbob said:


> How did the cow get down there without breaking it's legs? did uit just wander into one of those lights that was like the one on the hill?
> We know that Silas (Isaiah's grandpa) was one of the scientists working on the time travel/sinkhole project. How Isaiah/gavin wound up in the past and who his parents are is something I think we'll find out next season. Here's a fun though icky thought, Josh and Riley are Isaiah's parents. Silas is future Gavin. Everything is a closed circle.


I would imagine the cow fell through (Or was sent through by the scientists) just like everyone else and they didn't get hurt or at least most of them. So the cow would have landed and tried to figure out "What the heck?" like everyone else.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

When does this stupid show return? I can’t wait


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

gossamer88 said:


> When does this stupid show return? I can't wait


Season 6 already aired back in 1476 BC. It got a lot better and, boy, what a cliffhanger at the end!


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## Crusty (12 mo ago)

Ok, so, I'm an Aussie, from Victoria, and it's jarringly obvious that this was filmed in Victoria, Australia. The trees are Aussie gum trees. The homes are obviously Aussie homes. How on earth...why on earth would they try to pass this off as being LA? Even the shots of the city are of the Melbourne skyline! 
This show had all the potential of being quite an entertaining series, and as usual they screwed it up. Seriously? This is the best you've got? Want to fix it, then for fracks sake, sack the damn writers, sack the directors and half the cast! Throw a bit of change towards CGI and special effects and then film it in LA where it claims to be. 
Ok, I'm done ranting.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

Crusty said:


> Want to fix it, then for fracks sake, sack the damn writers, sack the directors and half the cast! Throw a bit of change towards CGI and special effects and then film it in LA where it claims to be.
> Ok, I'm done ranting.


Sooo, just scrap the whole damn thing and start over? Sounds good to moi, but I barely made it through the first ep, so what do I know. This thread has been far more entertaining than that ep was. I love threads where everybody hates the show but keeps watching anyway.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

That’s a show I wouldn’t watch.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Hcour said:


> Sooo, just scrap the whole damn thing and start over? Sounds good to moi, but I barely made it through the first ep, so what do I know. This thread has been far more entertaining than that ep was. I love threads where everybody hates the show but keeps watching anyway.


Rage watching.... Kind of like Rage F***ing


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

Crusty said:


> The trees are Aussie gum trees.


Those actually can be found in modern-day Los Angeles (as an imported species).

If you're upset about one TV show or movie being filmed in a place other than where it's set -- and having visible clues that give away the actual filming location -- I have some sad news for you about at least half of the TV shows and movies that have ever been made.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

trainman said:


> If you're upset about one TV show or movie being filmed in a place other than where it's set -- and having visible clues that give away the actual filming location -- I have some sad news for you about at least half of the TV shows and movies that have ever been made.


Not that YOU would ever notice such a thing!


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

I get a laugh when I’m watching a show that ‘on the east coast’ and I see palm trees in the background.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

At some point San Francisco moved to Vancouver. And we didn't even get a postcard.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> At some point San Francisco moved to Vancouver. And we didn't even get a postcard.


Don't we all pretty much live on Planet Vancouver now?


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

trainman said:


> I have some sad news for you about at least half of the TV shows and movies that have ever been made.


Yeah, currently living in a well-used filming location area, I've walked around the entire world in about 30 minutes all while remaining within 2 miles of my house.

--Carlos "except Antarctica" V.


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## Generic_User (10 mo ago)

mr.unnatural said:


> The part that cracks me up is that they already sent an unmanned drone through the crack and it ended disastrously so then they decided to send a live person in a larger aircraft through the crack. Clearly, anything with modern technology does not survive the journey through the crack so these geniuses decide to send an aircraft through it. Why not send a hot air balloon that is completely passive into the rift and see how that goes?


Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Plus the people down below the rift could build one on their own out of some vines, wood, etc. for the basket, maybe find some Paracord for holding it to the balloon, and make a balloon out of sheets or something. Fuel could be either wood or gasoline from cars around the area. Have the lightest adult go up in it and then they can send someone back through with a legit hot air balloon once the one person goes up and back to the future.


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## Tony_T (Nov 2, 2017)

Season 2 premiere Tuesday….


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