# Lost "There's No Place Like Home 1" 5/15/08



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

[Hurley]Dude![/Hurley]

How cruel of them! That last five minutes was all kinds of people on the road to all kinds of hell, and now we have to wait two weeks to see it all break out.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Just when I thought I figured out how they were going to come up with the Oceanic 6 they go and do this. Who were all those people on the first trip? First I thought to myself...Jin must go back to get the rest and something must happen to him on the way back. No. Well, I just don't know what's going on. Can't wait for the two hour finale in two weeks.

Also, no way Aaron would be so white. He's spent his entire life on a tropical island.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

When Sun walked out on the deck away from the explosives, I figured she somehow gets off the boat before it blows up, and that Jin, Dexter, and Michael don't.


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## mattpol (Jul 23, 2003)

This show is amazing. Seriously phenomenal.

The one thing that left me scratching my head, though, was the whole thing with Sun buying Paik Industries out from under her dad. What's up with that?


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

Did they change the scheduling? I thought the "season finale" was going to be 3 separate one hour episodes. When did they change it to two hours next week, or was I just mistaken?


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

I liked how they managed to throw in an explanation from Michael about how he and Walt got back to the States from the boat. That should hopefully satisfy a few people here.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> Did they change the scheduling? I thought the "season finale" was going to be 3 separate one hour episodes. When did they change it to two hours next week, or was I just mistaken?


That's the way it was originally announced. They wanted to do 3 hours but Grey's finale was already scheduled. So they broke it up to show the first hour, then gave Grey's an extra hour for their finale so next week Grey's has a 2 hour finale. Then the week after that is the final 2 hours of the finale.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I loved the episode but it was just over too quick!

Jack finding out that Claire is his half sister. Not on the island but at his dad's memorial service. Wow!!

There were others things too, but I am going to watch it again tomorrow.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And it's not really a three-hour finale, it's a three-part finale, one hour each part, and they're showing the last two parts on the same night.

Which, oddly, is in two weeks--it was in my To Do List for next week not too long ago. I wonder why they pushed it back?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

I'm going to miss this show until January or whenver it finally comes back...


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

And we still don't know the two who in the fake story survived.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

It's funny, I've gotten used to--over the last four years--getting one or two questions answered, and 64 new ones to take their place. It's almost overwhelming to have so much actually happen.

I'm really gonna miss this show one day . . .


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

Turtleboy said:


> And we still don't know the two who in the fake story survived.


We know one of them. Sun said during the interview with the press that Jin survived the initial crash.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

pcguru83 said:


> We know one of them. Sun said during the interview with the press that Jin survived the initial crash.


no, she said he didn't


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

pcguru83 said:


> We know one of them. Sun said during the interview with the press that Jin survived the initial crash.


no she said he didn't


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

robbhimself said:


> no, she said he didn't


I was typing on my iPod touch or I would have beat you!!


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

vertigo235 said:


> I was typing on my iPod touch or I would have beat you!!




great episode, can't wait to see what they do in a couple weeks


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I loved Hurley finding the numbers in his car


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> I loved Hurley finding the numbers in his car


+1. Especially after it seemed like they were going out of their way to show us non-numbers numbers. Like the 1717 on the coast guard plane.

Even though we knew about Jack/Claire, I just loved the "reveal" and Jack's "WTF" reaction.

I loved the Mr. Cluck's food Hurley still eats. The car was cool.

Seeing the other Others again after so long. Neat.

And at first I thought just the numbers on the odometer were the only numbers we saw. But of course, all that C*4*.......

The numbers are cursed.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And it's not really a three-hour finale, it's a three-part finale, one hour each part, and they're showing the last two parts on the same night.
> 
> Which, oddly, is in two weeks--it was in my To Do List for next week not too long ago. I wonder why they pushed it back?


Two words: Seacrest...OUT!


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

that was PE4 not C4.


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## Ment (Mar 27, 2008)

mattpol said:


> This show is amazing. Seriously phenomenal.
> 
> The one thing that left me scratching my head, though, was the whole thing with Sun buying Paik Industries out from under her dad. What's up with that?


That was weak. No way she got enough money in a settlement to buy controlling interest in that company..


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Ment said:


> That was weak. No way she got enough money in a settlement to buy controlling interest in that company..


Depends on how much she got, but controlling does not mean majority, depending on the owner composition she can be in a controlling position even with a small share of the votes.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Ment said:


> That was weak. No way she got enough money in a settlement to buy controlling interest in that company..


Plus I'm no expert, but could you actually buy a controlling interest in a company and the CEO of the company doesn't know about it until you walk into his office one day and announce it? That seemed screwy. Maybe in Korea you can.
.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

appleye1 said:


> Plus I'm no expert, but could you actually buy a controlling interest in a company and the CEO of the company doesn't know about it until you walk into his office one day and announce it? That seemed screwy. Maybe in Korea you can.
> .


I think that's what he was talking to his advisors about at the start of the scene. They said something about "whoever it was they used 5 separate banks to do it", so it seems like she did it quickly and showed up right after it happened.

But I'm another one who doesn't get how she could do that with her settlement from a plane crash - but then it's not a 'normal' plane crash, and Oceanic isn't the usual airline, I guess.

That was cool to see Admiral Caine as the PR Exec.

Sawyer called Mile "Ghengis" and Lapidus "Shaggy"


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

latrobe7 said:


> That was cool to see Admiral Caine as the PR Exec.


THAT'S who it was, thanks. 

Also, Jack's mom is Capt Furillo's (Hill Street Blues) girlfriend.  I don't remember, has she been in "Lost" before?


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> Just when I thought I figured out how they were going to come up with the Oceanic 6 they go and do this.


My favorite part of that whole thing was Sayid making sure everyone knew that only six people could fit on the raft at a time. 



Rob Helmerichs said:


> And it's not really a three-hour finale, it's a three-part finale, one hour each part, and they're showing the last two parts on the same night.


The way Damon Lindelof described it was that it's in the same format as the pilot, as in it stands alone as a 2-hour presentation but has a climax at the end of the first hour so it could be presented either way.



latrobe7 said:


> That was cool to see Admiral Caine as the PR Exec.


Admiral Caine? Huh. I thought it was Ensign Ro.

Best part of the episode: "Jesus Christ is not a weapon."

Hurley eating 12-year-old crackers. Jack finding out Claire's his sister. The numbers on Hurley's odometer! So much good stuff.

Only two weeks... only two weeks... and then...

"Mr Worf... fire."

Greg


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Jack finding out that Claire is his half sister. Not on the island but at his dad's memorial service. Wow!!


That was a real punch in the gut for Jack, now wasn't it?
And I guess Kate overheard all of it too.

[Hurley]Guilt City, man.[/Hurley]

So are Jin, Michael, and Desmond going to die when all that C4 goes off?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> When Sun walked out on the deck away from the explosives, I figured she somehow gets off the boat before it blows up, and that Jin, Dexter, and Michael don't.


Dexter? I assume you mean Desmond.


Turtleboy said:


> Did they change the scheduling? I thought the "season finale" was going to be 3 separate one hour episodes. When did they change it to two hours next week, or was I just mistaken?





unicorngoddess said:


> That's the way it was originally announced. They wanted to do 3 hours but Grey's finale was already scheduled. So they broke it up to show the first hour, then gave Grey's an extra hour for their finale so next week Grey's has a 2 hour finale. Then the week after that is the final 2 hours of the finale.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> And it's not really a three-hour finale, it's a three-part finale, one hour each part, and they're showing the last two parts on the same night.
> 
> Which, oddly, is in two weeks--it was in my To Do List for next week not too long ago. I wonder why they pushed it back?


I guess you guys all missed the thread a couple of weeks ago talking about this. Originally there was going to be a one-hour finale next week after the Grey's Anatomy finale, but the Darlton told ABC they couldn't effectively tell their story in just the one hour (or two, if you include this episode) and that they needed an extra hour. The only way ABC could make it work was to move the Lost finale back a week and give them two hours back to back. This then left an empty hour on May 22, so they let Grey's make a two-hour finale as well.


jlb said:


> Even though we knew about Jack/Claire, I just loved the "reveal" and Jack's "WTF" reaction.


And the best part was he couldn't let on that he knew Claire. How difficult must it have been for him not to say "Claire is my sister?"

Fabulous episode. Every time there was a commercial I was pissed because that meant FF and FF means I get to the end of the episode quicker. I'm not sure I can wait two more weeks.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Ment said:


> That was weak. No way she got enough money in a settlement to buy controlling interest in that company..


$1 million US = ~1 trillion Korean Won.
So a millionaire in the US is the equivalent of a trillionaire in Korea.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

gchance said:


> Admiral Caine? Huh. I thought it was Ensign Ro.


I don't know who you nerds are referring to, but I'm guessing one might know if they keep a pair of pointy ears in their glove compartment for wearing at conventions ...


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

gchance said:


> Admiral Caine? Huh. I thought it was Ensign Ro.
> 
> Greg


You mean she wasn't the medical examiner?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> I don't know who you nerds are referring to, but I'm guessing one might know if they keep a pair of pointy ears in their glove compartment for wearing at conventions ...


I'm not sure what show Ensign Ro is is a reference to, but Admiral Caine is a Battlestar Galactica reference. I guess it's in the same family.

Among her many credits, Michelle Forbes has also had recurring roles in 24 and Prison Break.


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## MikeekiM (Jun 25, 2002)

My favorite line:

"Jesus Christ is not a weapon!"


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Good episode.. I wasn't happy when it was over.. (even moreso because I'd promised myself earlier not to watch the previews this week, so we didn't). Actually yelled "NO!" out loud.

Ok, so I'm betting Keamy's arm is a dead-man switch (like we speculated last week), AND I'm guessing it's a sat receiver (someone's guess).. and that it's a transmitter. I think that the ship is broadcasting pings via sat phone to Keamy's arm, and his arm is responding. I think if either side loses contact, the explosives will go off.

There's a whole bunch of rabbits foots in Lost, with a bunch tonight.. The pilot had one, Hurley had one from the keys to the car, and Roger Workman's van had one I think. And this is the episode they made it to the Orchid station. 

I thought Roe too. She hasn't been on Lost before, right?

And Jack's mother - was she the same actress as when we saw her way back whenever that was (season one?).

So, it's not 100% definitive, but it feels to me like the Oceanic woman had no idea about their lie.. They didn't make any deal with Oceanic..

Glad the reporter was digging for more info on "Kate"'s pregnancy timing..

When Jack said "they'll just think we're in shock" I said outloud "they look like they're in shock!" right before Sun said the same thing.  Something happened to them, other than them getting rescued. Maybe it's as simple as just recently having seen something happen to Claire, or maybe something more.. (there _are_ two more seasons!).

Did you catch Kate naively thinking someone'd be there for her?

It VERY much felt like the writers were having fun jerking us around about how they get off.. Aha! They're together now! No, wait, she's leaving Aron! etc. 

New-Otherton. 

Just like Locke said they would. 

I wonder if there's anything special about that photo taken of them landing on the island with the fishermen..


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I love how in this episode, and probably the final 2, we are seeing what pretty much everybody expected to see in the very last episode of the series, and yet there are 36 hours of the show to go.

Who the heck knows where they're going to go after this. They take your expectations, and throw them off a cliff.

-smak-


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Hurley asked the same questioin I aske last week and I think it is still unanswered. If moving the island was supposed to keep Keamy and his men from finding it, what was the point of moving it if they were already there? And why was Ben still so intent on doing just that?

Could Michael Emerson adopt and accent and be the next James Bond? I love the his Ben just goes with the flow to get the mission done.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

The character of Ben just keeps getting more and more interesting ... and likeable.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Did you catch Kate naively thinking someone'd be there for her?


It sure seemed that way, only not naivete, sheer stupidity (who would possibly be there?). I hope she was just upset over the fact that everybody else had somebody and she didn't, and not that she was actually expecting somebody. in other words that it was bad acting, not bad writing!


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

"Jesus Christ is not a weapon" -- I'll agree with the others that have mentioned it -- GREAT line. I am going to incorporate it into as many conversations as I can from now on!

One thing confuses me about their plan:

Guys with guns who want to kill them come from boat on helicopter.

Lost cast wants to get themselves off the island to the boat.

If guys with guns don't find them on island, guys with guns fly back to boat on helicopter to kill them there, right?

I don't recall anyone saying "let's hurry and get everyone on the boat before guys with guns on helicopter get back."

I'm sure there is a plan, as the show is incredibly well written. I just want to know where I am mistaken, as I am certain that it I am.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> And the best part was he couldn't let on that he knew Claire. How difficult must it have been for him not to say "Claire is my sister?"


He may not have said it out loud, but a poker player he is not, as he telegraphed it pretty clearly. If Claire's mother had been paying half attention to him instead of her own grief she'd have called him on it.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

teknikel said:


> Hurley asked the same questioin I aske last week and I think it is still unanswered. If moving the island was supposed to keep Keamy and his men from finding it, what was the point of moving it if they were already there? And why was Ben still so intent on doing just that?





atrac said:


> One thing confuses me about their plan:
> 
> Guys with guns who want to kill them come from boat on helicopter.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't moving the island change the heading back to the boat? Wouldn't everyone that makes it back to the boat be safe if the guys with guns cannot find their way to fly back?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

MickeS said:


> THAT'S who it was, thanks.
> 
> Also, Jack's mom is Capt Furillo's (Hill Street Blues) girlfriend.  I don't remember, has she been in "Lost" before?


Yep, Pizza Man's "Counselor" (and now I'm replaying the opening theme's piano intro in my head).

Regarding Sun's taking a controlling interest, I thought it was a little ridiculous as well, at first, but then got to thinking a bit more. She probably already had some stock, as did Jin. It's not uncommon to spread the shares of a company among family members. And, as has been mentioned, "controlling' does not mean 50%+1. A stretch, perhaps.

They answered (or at least acknowledged) so many questions:
- Jack finds out about Claire
- Kate is pretending Aaron is hers
- reporter was questioning her being 6 months pregnant when arrested
- explanation for the date on Jin's headstone
- where they were found and how they got there
- how Michael and Waaaalt got to New York

Probably others I missed.

Several rabbit's feet.

That was a funny look that Charlotte had. She and Faraday know more than what we know they know, you know? She has some seriously freaky eyes.

Ben still wants to get to The Orchid and move the Island because he knows that Keamy is just *one* hired gun. Widmore has resources to hire a lot more. The Others outnumber Keamy's gang so Ben's plan is to kill them all, then move the Island so that Widmore can't find it again.

I don't understand why Keamy has the boat rigged to blow up if he's killed (assuming that's the trigger). No, strike that, I know why (the obvious reason -- no-one left to raise questions or provide answers). What I don't understand is why there is so much C4. I'm not a demolitions expert, but it would seem that there's waaaay too much to simply ensure there are no survivors. At first I was thinking that an explosion of such magnitude would create another "event" that would reveal the Island's location, but then the boat would have to be *on* the Island in order to make that work, wouldn't it?

The more I think about it the more I think that there is a wormhole at heading 305. The Island is in the same time as the outside world, but in an entirely different location from where the freighter is currently located. Maybe Ben doesn't really need to move the Island, just the wormhole. Nah, too many things don't fit in with this.

Supplies were being dropped by airplane to the Island, so this isn't "Land of the Lost". The Island physically exists somewhere where it can be easily reached. With all of Widmore's resources you'd think he could have found out which company was providing the airdrops and figured out the Island's location. Unless, of course, the air drop protocol included the opening of a wormhole somewhere, and the supplies were simply dropped in the middle of nowhere, getting to the Island via the wormhole. Except that Ben pretty much said the results were unpredictable -- could they really create a wormhole at such a specific set of coordinates? Or could they do it "close enough" and then send a flare up to a circling plane?

Man, I'm rambling -- must be that espresso I just had.


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## DirecTiVoTexas (Aug 26, 2003)

My second favorite line after "Jesus Christ is not a weapon" was Hurley's response to the reporters statement that they looked pretty healthy for being on a deserted island for 108 days. He said something like "Is that directed at me, dude?" LOL


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> New-Otherton.


My favourite Sawyer-ism so far this season. I had to pause to laugh for that one.

Awesome episode! Soccer practice was a mess and I was so happy to have a Lost to look forward to, and it didn't disappoint! Now how am I going to survive two weeks! And then all those months afterwards!


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

latrobe7 said:


> I.......But I'm another one who doesn't get how she could do that with her settlement from a plane crash - but then it's not a 'normal' plane crash, and Oceanic isn't the usual airline, I guess......


We're all forgetting something here. Hurley did not want any part of the money from the lottery. It is possible he gave enough money to Sun to help make the purchase.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

markz said:


> Wouldn't moving the island change the heading back to the boat? Wouldn't everyone that makes it back to the boat be safe if the guys with guns cannot find their way to fly back?


This is all true. But Sayid and Desmond don't know that Ben plans on moving the island, so they wouldn't have known it was safe to start bringing people to the boat. Sayid took the rubber boat with full intention of bringing people how ever many at a time back to the boat, but seems to think that the guys with guns on helicopter won't be returning (or didn't even consider it).

That's where I am confused -- why bring people to "safety" unless Sayid knows the mercenaries won't be back? If he knows they won't be back, how does he know this?


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

Forget the PR lady (Michelle Forbes) as Ensign Ro or from 24, BSG, etc.

She's Dr. Judith Mossman from Half-Life2!!! 

JD


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Turtleboy said:


> And we still don't know the two who in the fake story survived.


Was there two or three that didn't "die" in the plane crash? Although Aaron is part of the O6, I don't think the survivors would immediately count him as part of the 8. You normally count who can see. Most people would say, 8 survived the crash,but 3 died. Kate then gave birth to Aaron.



latrobe7 said:


> That was cool to see Admiral Caine as the PR Exec.


 To have someone like Michelle Forbes play this characters leads me to believe we will see more of her, possibly next season also. Actresses of her stature don't do, what was effectively a "cameo" role

ETA: Do we know of any existing relationship between Widmore and Oceanic? Could Widmore be pulling the strings on the O6 story?



Rob Helmerichs said:


> It sure seemed that way, only not naivete, sheer stupidity (who would possibly be there?). I hope she was just upset over the fact that everybody else had somebody and she didn't, and not that she was actually expecting somebody. in other words that it was bad acting, not bad writing!


 I took the scene to be more of "I know no one is going to be her, but I can still hope." I can't remember, but did Kate's mom die before Kate flew to Australia? If not, she might have been hoping for her mom to be there.

I can not wait to find out the whole "story" behind the O6. Who are the 2 (or 3) that survived the crash, but later died on the island. Who concocted this story and why the certain people. From where I am looking, wouldn't it have made more sense to say Claire survived the crash, but died giving birth? That would explain Aaron without having to explain that Kate was 6 months pregnant at her capture (which she is/was obviously not.)


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## jwehman (Feb 26, 2003)

> Did you catch Kate naively thinking someone'd be there for her?


I simply thought she was looking nervously around for Federal Agents who would undoubtedly be interested in her "resurrection".


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

RBlount said:


> I can not wait to find out the whole "story" behind the O6. Who are the 2 (or 3) that survived the crash, but later died on the island. Who concocted this story and why the certain people. From where I am looking, wouldn't it have made more sense to say Claire survived the crash, but died giving birth? That would explain Aaron without having to explain that Kate was 6 months pregnant at her capture (which she is/was obviously not.)


Good point on the 2 vs. 3 people.

If they say it's Claire's baby, then Kate doesn't get to keep him, but they will, rightfully so, send him to his grandmother or father in Australia.


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## jwehman (Feb 26, 2003)

atrac said:


> This is all true. But Sayid and Desmond don't know that Ben plans on moving the island, so they wouldn't have known it was safe to start bringing people to the boat. Sayid took the rubber boat with full intention of bringing people how ever many at a time back to the boat, but seems to think that the guys with guns on helicopter won't be returning (or didn't even consider it).
> 
> That's where I am confused -- why bring people to "safety" unless Sayid knows the mercenaries won't be back? If he knows they won't be back, how does he know this?


Didn't Sayid want to move the boat closer to the island...maybe even "dock" it? That was what prompted them to look in the engine room and see the PE/C4. I think he planned on getting the boat away from where it was, and to the island, thereby negating the helicopter's ability to return ("Where's the boat?!") and also rescuing the rest of the folks.


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## TheDewAddict (Aug 21, 2002)

atrac said:


> I don't recall anyone saying "let's hurry and get everyone on the boat before guys with guns on helicopter get back."


Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but didn't somebody say that? Perhaps Sayid? I thought he said something like "We need to evacuate as many people as we can before the helicopter returns."


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

jwehman said:


> Didn't Sayid want to move the boat closer to the island...maybe even "dock" it? That was what prompted them to look in the engine room and see the PE/C4. I think he planned on getting the boat away from where it was, and to the island, thereby negating the helicopter's ability to return ("Where's the boat?!") and also rescuing the rest of the folks.


Yes, he said to take the boat TO the island. Due to whatever electronic device was blocking th sonar screen, the capt said he wasn't going closer than 5 miles from shore since he couldn't see the reef.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

pcguru83 said:


> I liked how they managed to throw in an explanation from Michael about how he and Walt got back to the States from the boat. That should hopefully satisfy a few people here.


True, but there are lots of other people who don't take anything in this show at face value and will assume that Michael's story is untrue.


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## Honora (Oct 16, 2006)

RBlount said:


> I took the scene to be more of "I know no one is going to be her, but I can still hope." I can't remember, but did Kate's mom die before Kate flew to Australia? If not, she might have been hoping for her mom to be there.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Kate's mom was sick when she left, but she didn't die. Remember, she showed up later at Kate's trial. Now we know why she thinks Aaron is her grandson.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

betts4 said:


> I loved the episode but it was just over too quick!
> 
> Jack finding out that Claire is his half sister. Not on the island but at his dad's memorial service. Wow!!


Yes, that was extremely well done. I hadn't yet put it all together before that scene, but I thought there must be something yet to come about that, because it seemed that this flashforward was taking place before the trial in "Eggtown" yet Jack didn't seem uncomfortable at all around Aaron.

So much for all the calculations that were discussed in this thread about how pregnant Kate would have to have been in Australia in order to be claiming to be Aaron's bio-mom. I wonder if that means that the similar dscussions about Sun can also just be ignored now. I think Kate's claim to have been 6 months along would be a lot harder to pull off than Sun's story.

Anyone notice the look on Kate's face when Sayid (I think? or maybe Jack?) said there could absolutely not be more survivors. It seemed as if she was clinging to hope that the rest of them could still be rescued without blowing their story, and that maybe she wasn't 100% on board with every element of the story. Or something like that.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Nice to see Veronica Hamel. Now she's playing Matthew Fox's mom...ouch!!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Cearbhaill said:


> He may not have said it out loud, but a poker player he is not, as he telegraphed it pretty clearly. If Claire's mother had been paying half attention to him instead of her own grief she'd have called him on it.


I think even if he hadn't met Claire, it would have been a pretty emotional discovery. Claire's mom had no reason to doubt the O-6 story, so Jack's reaction certainly wouldn't create enough doubt for her to realize the degree to which they're lying. Worst case he could have just said he sat next to her on the plane.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> Nice to see Veronica Hamel. Now she's playing Matthew Fox's mom...ouch!!


She's been playing her since around episode 4 or 5.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Widmore or Ben could have paid Sun some more money, also.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

RBlount said:


> Was there two or three that didn't "die" in the plane crash? Although Aaron is part of the O6, I don't think the survivors would immediately count him as part of the 8. You normally count who can see. Most people would say, 8 survived the crash,but 3 died. Kate then gave birth to Aaron.
> 
> I took the scene to be more of "I know no one is going to be her, but I can still hope." I can't remember, but did Kate's mom die before Kate flew to Australia? If not, she might have been hoping for her mom to be there.
> 
> I can not wait to find out the whole "story" behind the O6. Who are the 2 (or 3) that survived the crash, but later died on the island. Who concocted this story and why the certain people. From where I am looking, wouldn't it have made more sense to say Claire survived the crash, but died giving birth? That would explain Aaron without having to explain that Kate was 6 months pregnant at her capture (which she is/was obviously not.)


I was convinced that it would turn out that Claire was one of the two (which I now I agree would have to be three) who survived initially but died later, after giving birth to Aaron. It made perfect sense and it was hard to believe that Kate would try to claim to have been 6 months along when they left. I guess that's not impossible to pull off. I wonder how the math works out with her claim about Aaron's age. I think that might be a little more difficult when it comes to taking him to a doctor, as she's claiming that he's only about half of his actual age. But I guess you'd have to factor in how far along she was when she gave birth.

Perhaps Kate's mom just couldn't make the trip - she was still in poor health when she appeared at the trial. Or, she simply didn't have her change of heart until some time later.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

appleye1 said:


> Plus I'm no expert, but could you actually buy a controlling interest in a company and the CEO of the company doesn't know about it until you walk into his office one day and announce it? That seemed screwy. Maybe in Korea you can.
> .





latrobe7 said:


> I think that's what he was talking to his advisors about at the start of the scene. They said something about "whoever it was they used 5 separate banks to do it", so it seems like she did it quickly and showed up right after it happened.
> 
> But I'm another one who doesn't get how she could do that with her settlement from a plane crash - but then it's not a 'normal' plane crash, and Oceanic isn't the usual airline, I guess.


Funny, I just figured that whatever they were discussing was unimportant. There have been a number of scenes where he's just been yelling at his employees just because he's a big meanie. I just figured it was another one of those.

I think the threshold is 5% of a company's shares being bought by an individual when there must be some sort of notification. Of course, it could be completely different in Korea.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jwehman said:


> I simply thought she was looking nervously around for Federal Agents who would undoubtedly be interested in her "resurrection".


That's how I interpreted it too.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Funny, I just figured that whatever they were discussing was unimportant. There have been a number of scenes where he's just been yelling at his employees just because he's a big meanie. I just figured it was another one of those.
> 
> I think the threshold is 5% of a company's shares being bought by an individual when there must be some sort of notification. Of course, it could be completely different in Korea.


I'm with you. I didn't connect the argument with Sun's purchase at all until I came here.

I was also in a slight disagreement with my wife. Are we sure Kate heard the whole story about Claire? I thought the look was one of "What the he** did she just tell you?" more than "I can't believe your Claire's brother."


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jradford said:


> I was also in a slight disagreement with my wife. Are we sure Kate heard the whole story about Claire? I thought the look was one of "What the he** did she just tell you?" more than "I can't believe your Claire's brother."


I thought she heard, but I don't think it matters. I mean, I know that people don't like to tell each other stuff in this show, but even if Kate was not within earshot - which was hard to tell since they never really showed a full shot of the three of them at once while she was talking - I think there's no way Jack doesn't tell her that story.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

So I'm thinking there must have been some sort of coordination with the O-6 and whoever was responsible for the faked wreckage in order to retain the faked wreckage's plausibility. They went REALLY far out of their way to get to Sumba based on all of the clues and information we've been given previously about the flight path of 815 and the location of the island.

Still, I don't understand why Jack said during Kate's trial that they were on an island in the South Pacific, unless he's just bad at geography. Although I retract any statements in previous threads about how they couldn't be claiming to have crashed near the trench since it would have to be so far from land. I guess using seat cushions and floating for a day to an uncharted island is plausible.

I'm trying to remember who said something in a flashforward in a recent episode about the world believing that the plane at the bottom of the ocean was the real 815. I remember thinking at the time that the implication was that it was now public knowledge that it was faked, but given what we learned in the press conference, that may very well not be the case. I just can't remember who said that or in what context.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It sure seemed that way, only not naivete, sheer stupidity (who would possibly be there?). I hope she was just upset over the fact that everybody else had somebody and she didn't, and not that she was actually expecting somebody. in other words that it was bad acting, not bad writing!





jwehman said:


> I simply thought she was looking nervously around for Federal Agents who would undoubtedly be interested in her "resurrection".


I looked at it as a combination of both. I mean, she and Sayid were not greeted by anyone, yet Hurley pulled Sayid over into his family group. I was waiting for Jack to pull Kate over to his Mom. And then I thought Hurley would do it. Instead she just stood there and looked sad and nervous.

So, did Claire's mom know that the reason Claire left Australia was because she was pregnant? I wonder because they made a point about Kate being 6 months pregnant and yet it wasn't mentioned by Claire's mom about her bring pregnant....at least I don't remember.


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I think Widmore (and/or his people) got to the O-6 and told them that if they want any chance of having their friends found, they'd have to go along with the story they made up.


(I have a pretty good grasp of the obvious, huh?!!)


----------



## stlarenas (Sep 17, 2005)

betts4 said:


> So, did Claire's mom know that the reason Claire left Australia was because she was pregnant? I wonder because they made a point about Kate being 6 months pregnant and yet it wasn't mentioned by Claire's mom about her bring pregnant....at least I don't remember.


Yeah. I fully expected Claires mom to say to Jack, after mentioning that her daughter probably sat near him on the plane, "she was the young, very pregnant, blonde...I lost my grandchild as well" instead of just coming out and saying her name.

When describing someone to another person you believe they have never actually met...it is more typicaly to use physical attributes instead of a name...

Oh well...still a well done scene...

Diane


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Also, the Oceanic lady mentioned that a tsunami washed up some supplies including a raft that they used to escape on day 100-something. So was this the tsunami in the Indian Ocean that people have been wondering if it would be written into the show?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

stlarenas said:


> Yeah. I fully expected Claires mom to say to Jack, after mentioning that her daughter probably sat near him on the plane, "she was the young, very pregnant, blonde...I lost my grandchild as well" instead of just coming out and saying her name.
> 
> When describing someone to another person you believe they have never actually met...it is more typicaly to use physical attributes instead of a name...
> 
> ...


Hard to say what she would have said. She also left out having been in a coma, more than likely until after the crash. But I do imagine that someone would have told her Claire was pregnant.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

latrobe7 said:


> But I'm another one who doesn't get how she could do that with her settlement from a plane crash - but then it's not a 'normal' plane crash, and Oceanic isn't the usual airline, I guess.


I had a friend once who was an aviation lawyer and one of the primary lawyers on the Lockerbie settlements. Those settlements are HUGE and she probably not only got for her pain and suffering, but also for Jin's and his projected loss of income. That's how they determine that stuff.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

unicorngoddess said:


> Also, the Oceanic lady mentioned that a tsunami washed up some supplies including a raft that they used to escape on day 100-something. So was this the tsunami in the Indian Ocean that people have been wondering if it would be written into the show?


Day 103. Then hit the populated island day 108. Numbers again. The washed up supplies were a good way to work the tusumani in. I hadn't thought of that but remember the questions when it happened.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

unicorngoddess said:


> Also, the Oceanic lady mentioned that a tsunami washed up some supplies including a raft that they used to escape on day 100-something. So was this the tsunami in the Indian Ocean that people have been wondering if it would be written into the show?


Typhoon, not tsunami, if I recall...


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

wprager said:


> Several rabbit's feet....


White rabbit, at that.

White Rabbit was the name of the first Jack-centric episode in season 1. There have been references to Alice In Wonderland...Charlotte's character is Charlotte Staples Lewis...C. S. Lewis.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

hefe said:


> White rabbit, at that.
> 
> White Rabbit was the name of the first Jack-centric episode in season 1. There have been references to Alice In Wonderland...Charlotte's character is Charlotte Staples Lewis...C. S. Lewis.


Good catch,

And the rabbit that had the number on it's back and was used to bluff Sawyer was white.


----------



## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> When Sun walked out on the deck away from the explosives, I figured she somehow gets off the boat before it blows up, and that Jin, Dexter, and Michael don't.


Desmond gets off!


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Here's a dumb question - they said something about them leaving the island on day 108. But when Jack was eulogizing his dad he said "10 months ago I wrote this in the Sydney Airport..." or something similar. 

10 months is about 300 days which means there was quite a long time between the survivors being "rescued" and the service. That just seemed off somehow - why wait almost 6 months to have that service?


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

betts4 said:


> Good catch,
> 
> And the rabbit that had the number on it's back and was used to bluff Sawyer was white.


I thought of that rabbit when they showed Cheech holding the rabbit's foot.

Which reminds me....

Hurley's parents sure are living large! I would have expected all their money to go up in smoke.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

markz said:


> I thought of that rabbit when they showed Cheech holding the rabbit's foot.
> 
> Which reminds me....
> 
> Hurley's parents sure are living large! I would have expected all their money to go up in smoke.


Up in Smoke!! Ha ha ha!!


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

ScottE22 said:


> Here's a dumb question - they said something about them leaving the island on day 108. But when Jack was eulogizing his dad he said "10 months ago I wrote this in the Sydney Airport..." or something similar.
> 
> 10 months is about 300 days which means there was quite a long time between the survivors being "rescued" and the service. That just seemed off somehow - why wait almost 6 months to have that service?
> 
> So his dad's memorial service was, like,


Not sure that it's significant, but I'm more puzzled about why Claire's mom would have been there. In theory, she wouldn't have known anyone else from Christian's life in the U.S., so it's hard to imagine who would have let her know about it, and doubtful that she would have been checking American newspapers closely enough to get information about it. I could see it being a minor news story, given the O-6's celebrity, but not necessarily far enough in advance for her to make travel plans. I wouldn't call it a plot hole or anything, but still.

Also, presumably that means it took place _after_ Sun had given birth. Well, never mind. I was going to say something about how Hurley visited her by himself, but the memorial service might have taken place _before_ Hurley's trip to Korea. I was thinking that they all seemed very friendly at first but maybe Jack finding out about Aaron started the relationships going downhill. Well, that and Hurley seeing the numbers in the car.


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> Not sure that it's significant...


I doubt it is, but it seems like an awfully long time to wait so I was wondering if a writer miscounted or just blatantly disregarded a pretty relevant piece of timeline information.

OTOH, it seems EVERYTHING on this show is significant so I was wondering what happened during the intervening time.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

hefe said:


> White rabbit, at that.
> 
> White Rabbit was the name of the first Jack-centric episode in season 1. There have been references to Alice In Wonderland...Charlotte's character is Charlotte Staples Lewis...C. S. Lewis.


You're thinking of Lewis Carroll. C.S. Lewis was the guy who wrote Narnia.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

wprager said:


> Regarding Sun's taking a controlling interest, I thought it was a little ridiculous as well, at first, but then got to thinking a bit more. She probably already had some stock, as did Jin. It's not uncommon to spread the shares of a company among family members. And, as has been mentioned, "controlling' does not mean 50%+1. A stretch, perhaps.


I don't know if this has been speculated anywhere else but in my own head, but if Sun's father's company is tied to Widmore somehow, does this make Sun suddenly a "player" in that game?



wprager said:


> The more I think about it the more I think that there is a wormhole at heading 305. The Island is in the same time as the outside world, but in an entirely different location from where the freighter is currently located. Maybe Ben doesn't really need to move the Island, just the wormhole. Nah, too many things don't fit in with this.
> 
> Supplies were being dropped by airplane to the Island, so this isn't "Land of the Lost". The Island physically exists somewhere where it can be easily reached...


If there is a wormhole, I wonder if it could be that the supply plane is trapped in some kind of time loop and is just dropping the same supplies over and over?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

hefe said:


> There have been references to Alice In Wonderland...Charlotte's character is Charlotte Staples Lewis...C. S. Lewis.


What does CS Lewis have to do with Alice in Wonderland? _Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_ was written by Lewis Carroll.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Not sure that it's significant, but I'm more puzzled about why Claire's mom would have been there. In theory, she wouldn't have known anyone else from Christian's life in the U.S., so it's hard to imagine who would have let her know about it, and doubtful that she would have been checking American newspapers closely enough to get information about it. I could see it being a minor news story, given the O-6's celebrity, but not necessarily far enough in advance for her to make travel plans. I wouldn't call it a plot hole or anything, but still.


Her daughter was on the plane. I imagine she scoured the net for any information she could find, and would easily find out about this event, and wanted to go there.
Who reads newspapers anymore?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

MickeS said:


> Her daughter was on the plane. I imagine she scoured the net for any information she could find, and would easily find out about this event, and wanted to go there.
> Who reads newspapers anymore?


Whether it's the literal paper or the newspaper's web site, that's still a common place to find or look for funeral notices.

My point was would she still be looking almost every day 6 months later? Like I said, it's certainly not beyond belief or anything, but a little more likely than not that she would have missed it, I think.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> What does CS Lewis have to do with Alice in Wonderland? _Alice's Adventures in Wonderland_ was written by Lewis Carroll.


Correct. What's significant is that there are frequent references to stories that take place in alternate worlds.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> Whether it's the literal paper or the newspaper's web site, that's still a common place to find or look for funeral notices.
> 
> My point was would she still be looking almost every day 6 months later? Like I said, it's certainly not beyond belief or anything, but a little more likely than not that she would have missed it, I think.


I'm sure anything to do with the flight would be a front-page story in Clare's hometown...you know how local news outlets are about local connections.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

smak said:


> I love how in this episode, and probably the final 2, we are seeing what pretty much everybody expected to see in the very last episode of the series, and yet there are 36 hours of the show to go.
> 
> Who the heck knows where they're going to go after this. They take your expectations, and throw them off a cliff.
> 
> -smak-


i was thinking the same thing... after last night's ep, how are they going to stretch this story out 36 more hours??


Rob Helmerichs said:


> When Sun walked out on the deck away from the explosives, I figured she somehow gets off the boat before it blows up, and that Jin, Dexter, and Michael don't.


how long will the island not let michael die?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

It's not hard for me to believe that Claire's mom would be closely following anything to do with Flight 815...especially after survivors were discovered. I'm sure once she heard the name "Survivor, Jack Shepherd...who was bring back his dead father, Christian Shepherd..." she started taking a VERY close look at Jack and his life and was possibly waiting for the right time to approach him.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jeff125va said:


> I think even if he hadn't met Claire, it would have been a pretty emotional discovery. Claire's mom had no reason to doubt the O-6 story, so Jack's reaction certainly wouldn't create enough doubt for her to realize the degree to which they're lying. Worst case he could have just said he sat next to her on the plane.


However, Jack's reaction did not come when she said he had a sister on board, but when she said her name was Claire.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> I wonder if there's anything special about that photo taken of them landing on the island with the fishermen..


Can't remember now, but is the boat/raft in that picture, the same one used to ferry people between the island and the ship?


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

bruinfan said:


> i was thinking the same thing... after last night's ep, how are they going to stretch this story out 36 more hours??


It's no longer about whether or not they get off the island, and hasn't really been since last season's finale and the first flash forward. I think there's still a LOT of story to tell.


----------



## TheMerk (Feb 26, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> I wonder if there's anything special about that photo taken of them landing on the island with the fishermen..





verdugan said:


> Can't remember now, but is the boat/raft in that picture, the same one used to ferry people between the island and the ship?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Shakhari said:


> You're thinking of Lewis Carroll. C.S. Lewis was the guy who wrote Narnia.


Ah, that's right...had it mixed in my head...


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

jking said:


> It's no longer about whether or not they get off the island, and hasn't really been since last season's finale and the first flash forward. I think there's still a LOT of story to tell.


i know.. but how????????


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

1) She had a Google Alert for Oceanic. 
2) I've looked at the picture many times to make sure you can see all 6, and it looks like you can (assuming Kate's holding Aaron). There are 5 other fishermen there.
3) That doesn't look like the zodiac - I thought the zodiac was blue.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

betts4 said:


> I looked at it as a combination of both. I mean, she and Sayid were not greeted by anyone, yet Hurley pulled Sayid over into his family group. I was waiting for Jack to pull Kate over to his Mom. And then I thought Hurley would do it. Instead she just stood there and looked sad and nervous.


I wondered about that. They made it so obvious, that I started thinking there must be more to this. Hugo intentionally pulls Sayid to his family, and pointedly ignores Kate.

Why?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> 3) That doesn't look like the zodiac - I thought the zodiac was blue.


http://bp3.blogger.com/_Hxnvg45zlCw/SC0JD6l9kjI/AAAAAAAABWQ/YGElFZIWDmg/s1600-h/4x12-00043.jpg


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I don't think it's the same boat they're using to get off the island either. The one they're using to get off the island has a motor on it and the one in the rescue picture just looks like a plain ordinary raft with no engine.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> So I'm thinking there must have been some sort of coordination with the O-6 and whoever was responsible for the faked wreckage in order to retain the faked wreckage's plausibility. They went REALLY far out of their way to get to Sumba based on all of the clues and information we've been given previously about the flight path of 815 and the location of the island.


Yeah...how does Oceanic explain to the world that a plane traveling from Sydney to LA crashes near Indonesia?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bruinfan said:


> how long will the island not let michael die?


As long as it has a use for him, I suppose.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

bruinfan said:


> i know.. but how????????


I'm beginning to wonder if next season the flash backs and flash forwards will be replaced by real-time updates of what's happening with the O6 and on the island.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bruinfan said:


> i know.. but how????????


I think we'll find that out in the finale. Well, it's only about day 100 so there's still a long ways until the "present" catches up to day 108 at the pace the show has been going, which is just a little over a day per episode. But my guess (just speculation) is that we'll see how the Oceanic Six get separated from the rest and at least leave the island (or the freighter).

But there's also lots of story to tell about what happens to the ones who don't leave with the O-6. I've been thinking that next season, instead of flashbacks or forwards, maybe we'll see things happening on and off the island at the same time.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jking said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if next season the flash backs and flash forwards will be replaced by real-time updates of what's happening with the O6 and on the island.


I swear I clicked before your post was there.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hefe said:


> Yeah...how does Oceanic explain to the world that a plane traveling from Sydney to LA crashes near Indonesia?


I don't think that's the problem. They were way off course as it was, they could just say they veered off course even earlier than they actually did. They would have already answered that question, or at least addressed it, when the fake wreckage was found.

My point was that there have been lots of clues about the island's general location, and it would have been at least hundreds of miles away from the island they talked about in the press conference. They must have had some reason to go there in order not to expose the wreckage as a hoax.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I don't think there will be a lot of issues with verifying their story about the crash. It's not really like anyone is suspecting foul play by them, and they have people with $$$ to back them if necessary.


----------



## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

whitson77 said:


> Desmond gets off!


With Penny?


----------



## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

TheDewAddict said:


> Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but didn't somebody say that? Perhaps Sayid? I thought he said something like "We need to evacuate as many people as we can before the helicopter returns."


Actually, I think you are correct. In fact I think that's when I first started thinking "gee, all those people were hiding on the island from them, now the helicopter will get back and the guys with guns will find them...not many places to hide on the boat!"


----------



## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

jwehman said:


> Didn't Sayid want to move the boat closer to the island...maybe even "dock" it? That was what prompted them to look in the engine room and see the PE/C4. I think he planned on getting the boat away from where it was, and to the island, thereby negating the helicopter's ability to return ("Where's the boat?!") and also rescuing the rest of the folks.


Yes, he did now that you mention it. This does make sense. Even though they ran the risk of possibly running into them (since they all use the same coordinates to get too and from the island), that's just a risk I suppose.

By the way, what happened to the "OTHER" island (pun intended)?

Do the same rules apply to it? Will it "move" too?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

atrac said:


> By the way, what happened to the "OTHER" island (pun intended)?
> 
> Do the same rules apply to it? Will it "move" too?


Good question.



hefe said:


> Typhoon, not tsunami, if I recall...


You're right. All the talk about the tsunami and I guess I just heard what I was wanting to hear.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

aintnosin said:


> With Penny?


Nope. They only lie naked in bed together.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

When Faraday is leafing through his lab book there is a page seen quite clearly before he settles on The Orchid picture. Part of what's written there is:



> Using Eddington-Finkelstein coordinates (V, R) removes the singularity at R=2m. As R gets smaller light cones tip over.


There is a wikipedia topic on "Eddington-Finkelstein Coordinates" that is not very helpful (has to do with general relativity, with a few incomprehensible formulae). Googling "light cones tip over" however gives you this:
Tipping the Light Cone: Black Holes.

So the notes are about black holes and event horizons. Could there possibly be a wormhole at bearing 305 from the freighter?


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

If there *is* a wormhole and they move/remove it, it would be the same as moving the Island. On one of his trips back he'll head bearing 305 and never find the Island, as if it had been moved.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

atrac said:


> One thing confuses me about their plan:
> 
> Guys with guns who want to kill them come from *boat on helicopter*.
> <snip>
> ...


Okay, your first big mistake is that there is no boat on the helicopter.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

2 thoughts--for some reason it seems that Hugo will be the first one to go crazy, although he seemed ok when he went to visit Sun. 

Last week Ben was all resigned to being a nobody again and let Locke think he was running things and in charge. Now he's back to his usual self. Remember, John, I always have a plan. I even love the way he says "John." He packs so much into that one word.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

getreal said:


> Okay, your first big mistake is that there is no boat on the helicopter.


Would "they come from boat *by* helicopter" be less ambiguous?


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

wprager said:


> Would "they come from boat *by* helicopter" be less ambiguous?


You bet. He could've also used "*via* helicopter". 
And "chopper" would have been an acceptable substitute for "helicopter", but "helichopper" would've lost points once again. 

_LACERATION!_


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> 2 thoughts--for some reason it seems that Hugo will be the first one to go crazy, although he seemed ok when he went to visit Sun.
> 
> Last week Ben was all resigned to being a nobody again and let Locke think he was running things and in charge. Now he's back to his usual self. Remember, John, I always have a plan. I even love the way he says "John." He packs so much into that one word.


I think he still accepts that he isn't being "chosen" by the island to do things, but obviously he doesn't think of himself being nobody.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

stellie93 said:


> 2 thoughts--for some reason it seems that Hugo will be the first one to go crazy, although he seemed ok when he went to visit Sun.


this has already been established... hurley's back in the looney bin... he tells a not yet crazy jack that they need to get back to the island.

kate is ok, sayid is killing people, sun? we don't know for sure yet... but i'm betting she's not crazy before hurley and jack.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Yeah I did think "hey.. Hurley said everything was fine until he saw Charlie.. he doesn't look fine here.. he's freaking out like crazy about the numbers in his car.."


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

RBlount said:


> I can not wait to find out the whole "story" behind the O6. Who are the 2 (or 3) that survived the crash, but later died on the island. Who concocted this story and why the certain people. From where I am looking, wouldn't it have made more sense to say Claire survived the crash, but died giving birth? That would explain Aaron without having to explain that Kate was 6 months pregnant at her capture (which she is/was obviously not.)


I think it's been said, but if they disclosed that Aaron was Claire's, he would have been taken away and likely returned to Australia, or maybe to the alleged couple waiting for him in LA. We haven't seen it yet, but I'll bet we'll see some scene or reason why the O6 feel it is important to keep tabs on Aaron.


ScottE22 said:


> Here's a dumb question - they said something about them leaving the island on day 108. But when Jack was eulogizing his dad he said "10 months ago I wrote this in the Sydney Airport..." or something similar.
> 
> 10 months is about 300 days which means there was quite a long time between the survivors being "rescued" and the service. That just seemed off somehow - why wait almost 6 months to have that service?


I wondered that as well. No reason to wait 6 months to have that service, unless Jack was using that time to ensure that Christian was really dead.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> he doesn't look fine here.. he's freaking out like crazy about the numbers in his car.."


Wouldn't you?


----------



## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> Yeah I did think "hey.. Hurley said everything was fine until he saw Charlie.. he doesn't look fine here.. he's freaking out like crazy about the numbers in his car.."


He's been freaking out about the numbers since before he landed on the island. That's normal for him.


----------



## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

getreal said:


> Okay, your first big mistake is that there is no boat on the helicopter.


I cry "context!" As viewers of the show, we know there's no boat on the helicopter. Maybe a life raft or two...but still. 

I actually was just using "kemosabe" talk and it seemed to fit.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> Wouldn't you?





Rosincrans said:


> He's been freaking out about the numbers since before he landed on the island. That's normal for him.


You guys are missing my point.. Of course I'd freak out - I wouldn't be able function at all.. What I'm saying is, they already showed us Hurley _ahead_ of this, and in the future he'd said that everything had been fine (he'd been happy, sane, etc) - all until the first time he saw Charlie in that convenience store.

Here, it looks like he was mistaken then.. He'd already been upset and freaking out, now. (He even rejected the car now, which he eventually takes (apparently happily) to a convenience store..


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Did anyone that watched the Lost Pieces and other shorts over the summer will remember the Orchid orientation film bloopers, including a transporting, duplicating rabbit. Is this a hint for how they will "move the island?"

As others have mentioned, great references in this ep to past eps and to actual events my favorite was a nod to Jack's line. Sawyer cocks his gun and stomps after Jack to go to the chopper, "You don't get to _die alone_".
("live together, die alone")


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think it's been said, but if they disclosed that Aaron was Claire's, he would have been taken away and likely returned to Australia, or maybe to the alleged couple waiting for him in LA. We haven't seen it yet, but I'll bet we'll see some scene or reason why the O6 feel it is important to keep tabs on Aaron.
> 
> I wondered that as well. No reason to wait 6 months to have that service, unless Jack was using that time to ensure that Christian was really dead.


Did baby Aaron look 6 months older than he did at the press conference? O don't think so. It really looks like a slip up by the writers.

I re-watched and have a few more comments:

1. Ben hands his "stick" to Locke before he gives himself up to Keamy. This is the stick he used in Tunisia. I don't remember him having it before, and didn't see him taking it out of the wooden box. Why did they introduce it now?

2. When Sun is asked about Jin she looks very uncomfortable, like she wants to tell the truth but cannot. There must be some significance as to why they are saying 8 survived (why not say 10, why couldn't Jin have "died" later?)

3. So now we know that the "story" doesn't have Aaron being born to Claire on the plane. If Aaron is one of the six and eight survived the crash, then there must be three who died later, not two. A mistake? Or are we back to needing a "negative" person?

A negative person kind of fits in with the wormhole, since you need something that has negative mass to keep it stable.


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## TheGreyOwl (Aug 18, 2003)

wprager said:


> 3. So now we know that the "story" doesn't have Aaron being born to Claire on the plane. If Aaron is one of the six and eight survived the crash, then there must be three who died later, not two. A mistake? Or are we back to needing a "negative" person?


What I'm curious about is why, if they're saying Aaron is Kate's child, did they even feel the need to say 2-3 other people initially survived, then later died. Why not just say the Oceanic 6 were the only survivors and leave it at that?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TheGreyOwl said:


> What I'm curious about is why, if they're saying Aaron is Kate's child, did they even feel the need to say 2-3 other people initially survived, then later died. Why not just say the Oceanic 6 were the only survivors and leave it at that?


I have a feeling we will find out, maybe even next time...


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

I'm interested in why the O6 are so sworn to lying. My take is that there ARE survivors left on the island held 'hostage' for their cooperation. I hope that Sawyer & Desmond (despite the C4) are among them.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> I'm interested in why the O6 are so sworn to lying. My take is that there ARE survivors left on the island held 'hostage' for their cooperation. I hope that Sawyer & Desmond (despite the C4) are among them.


Of course the O6 left survivors behind on the island. Last season's finale showed Jack torn by guilt and pleading with Kate to go back to the island with him. And Charlie's apparition telling Hurley that he needs to go back because "they need" him. And Sayid, when he confronted Ben at Nadia's funeral, asked Ben how he had gotten off the island.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm surprized they didn't give them physical exams when they found them. If they did they would see that Jack has a recent and probably crude scar from his appy. How do you explain that when he's the only doctor. Did Kate the hero do that too? 

And it would be easy to tell that Kate has never had a baby. If she ever goes to a gynecologist wouldn't he know that?

I guess my question was more why was Hurley the first to go crazy. He seems pretty sane right now considering what's going on. Why is the island after him more than the others?


----------



## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

wprager said:


> 1. Ben hands his "stick" to Locke before he gives himself up to Keamy. This is the stick he used in Tunisia. I don't remember him having it before, and didn't see him taking it out of the wooden box. Why did they introduce it now?


*This* theory is really interesting.

They went back and watched the pilot episode and you see the stick/baton (or something that looks a lot like it) next to Jack's head before he gets up from the ground. They show the screen cap on the site.

"Some" people are saying that this is future jack getting back to the island, which boogles my mind. Not sure if i even want to go there, but thought it was worth bringing up here.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I like that theory. Upon rewatching, did you happen to notice if there was any kind of a flash forward/reverse whoosh sound, or did that whole scene occur without a whoosh?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

getreal said:


> Of course the O6 left survivors behind on the island. Last season's finale showed Jack torn by guilt and pleading with Kate to go back to the island with him. And Charlie's apparition telling Hurley that he needs to go back because "they need" him. And Sayid, when he confronted Ben at Nadia's funeral, asked Ben how he had gotten off the island.


Ahhhhh, careful with that last one.

I doubt this, but what if Ben leaves the island *soon* (he's at the Orchid, after all), and everyone else (including Sayid) is around for a long time, unable to get off the island/freighter, wondering how Ben got away?

In other words, when Sayid says "How did you get off the island?", we've been assuming he meant "after me, when I took away the freighter/whateverotherthing".. What if "How did Ben leave??" was a mystery to them while already on the island?

(the only condition would be Ben gambling that Sayid hadn't looked for The Elizabeth while he was gone, since he used it in his cover story).


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

Cindy1230 said:


> *This* theory is really interesting.
> 
> They went back and watched the pilot episode and you see the stick/baton (or something that looks a lot like it) next to Jack's head before he gets up from the ground. They show the screen cap on the site.
> 
> "Some" people are saying that this is future jack getting back to the island, which boogles my mind. Not sure if i even want to go there, but thought it was worth bringing up here.


That's quite an interesting theory. The only thing that strikes me as odd is that black object next to Jack looks a lot larger than what I saw Ben use previously and then later hand to Locke.

I just interpreted Ben's handing it to Locke as "cocky." He assumed his "plan" would execute flawlessly and he'd later go up to John and say "can I have my wand back now, please?" instead of losing it to one of the mercenaries who might end up losing it in the jungle or destroying it when they take it from him after searching him.

Of course, I don't know anything more than anyone else -- just speculation.


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Very interesting theory about the baton. The object next to Jack certainly *could be* Ben's baton. The part about Jack in the pilot episode being Jack from the future is certainly out-there (which means it could very well be true).

Now that I think about it, though, Ben had this baton earlier (when he whipped Sawyer across the back of the legs or back with it), and its reappearance in the last episode could have simply been symbolic of Ben leaving the Island in Locke's care (passing of the baton).


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

It seems that Daniel's memory problems are better--he remembered what the Orchid is and that it's part of the second protocol. Maybe time on the island is improving whatever his problem was. ???

So they last went to the Orchid 15 years ago? Did they move the island at that time, or was that when they had some kind of big problem, like too many bunnies and they stopped experimenting with it? 

Sun told her father that 2 people are responsible for Jin's death. I can't think why she would say that unless she knew who the second one was. (Keamy or Widmore maybe?). She wouldn't say that if he was alive and well on the island would she? And I guess it wasn't the right time for her father to ask who the other guy was, but it's an odd thing to say if your husband died in an accident.


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

TheMerk said:


>


Okay, I'm blind, walk me through who is in this picture, because I only see someone and Kate with her arm around them. I thought it was Sayid, but it looks too skinny and tall to be Sayid (not the right frame-size). And it doesn't look like Kate is holding Aaron. And whose arm is in front of them both? I first thought it was Kate's, but it looks a little TOO far ahead of them. Or am I just blind and the photo is dark and I can't see who is being hidden by them? Then Jack and Hurley. The rest are fisherman to me - where is Sun?



stellie93 said:


> Sun told her father that 2 people are responsible for Jin's death. I can't think why she would say that unless she knew who the second one was. (Keamy or Widmore maybe?). She wouldn't say that if he was alive and well on the island would she? And I guess it wasn't the right time for her father to ask who the other guy was, but it's an odd thing to say if your husband died in an accident.


I thought she was thinking she was at fault for Jin's death - that whatever happened back at the island/freighter she felt responsible for.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jenhudson said:


> I thought she was thinking she was at fault for Jin's death - that whatever happened back at the island/freighter she felt responsible for.


Huh...it seemed obvious to me that she blames a second person, whom she didn't name for dramatic purposes (presumably to be revealed when we see him die).


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

I also took it that she blamed herself as the second person.

As for the picture, that's definitely Sayid with Kate's arm around him. The extra set of legs/arms must belong to Sun (who is shorter than both Sayid and Kate). I agree that it appears that Kate is not holding Aaron (unless it's a one-handed hold). Maybe Sun was carrying him?

By the way, this time-traveling stuff is fascinating:
http://www.lifesci.sussex.ac.uk/home/John_Gribbin/timetrav.htm

I actually understand the Casimir Effect (although not even close on what it has to do with time-travel; maybe it's used to create the negative pressure required to stabilize a wormhole?)


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

That's definitely Sayid; he's wearing his watch:


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## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

So now that we are at the end of season 4......why did they have to press that button every 108 minutes? Other than a big light in the sky and it magically stripping Desmond's clothes off?

Did I miss something?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I was amused by how nervous the Coast Guard guy was because of the "cargo" they were carrying. They're cursed, dude. 

If they flew the O6 across the Pacific in a Coast Guard C-130 - oh boy, somebody went all out.  What a sucky ride THAT would be!

Did anyone else get kind of a Lord of The Rings vibe from the different groups moving around the island, on their various missions?


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## rondotcom (Feb 13, 2005)

omelet1978 said:


> So now that we are at the end of season 4......why did they have to press that button every 108 minutes? Other than a big light in the sky and it magically stripping Desmond's clothes off?
> 
> Did I miss something?


Pressing the button every 108 minutes contained the magnetic field on the island, Desmond twisting the fail-safe key kept the magnetic forvces from doing something extremely drastic


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

rondotcom said:


> Pressing the button every 108 minutes contained the magnetic field on the island, Desmond twisting the fail-safe key kept the magnetic forvces from doing something extremely drastic


My understanding is that pressing the button was like stopping an earthquake from happening, but the tectonic forces continued to build. Not pressing the button unleashed the earthquake. Turning the key channeled the earthquake energy so it wouldn't destroy the world.

Now, the tectonic energy is starting to build again, but it will be a while before it reaches dangerous levels.[/metaphor] Before that happens, they'll have to build another button.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Now, the tectonic energy is starting to build again, but it will be a while before it reaches dangerous levels.[/metaphor] Before that happens, they'll have to build another button.


Here's one, all pre-made and ready to go.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Here's a question I have: are the O6 the only ones left alive, or the only ones that made it off the island? Is Jin still alive? Claire? Locke? Paulo? (Just kidding on that last one. )


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## walkerism (Aug 16, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'm not sure what show Ensign Ro is is a reference to, but Admiral Caine is a Battlestar Galactica reference. I guess it's in the same family.
> 
> Among her many credits, Michelle Forbes has also had recurring roles in 24 and Prison Break.


Don't you guys mean Sonny form Guiding Light?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Here's a question I have: are the O6 the only ones left alive, or the only ones that made it off the island? Is Jin still alive? Claire? Locke? Paulo? (Just kidding on that last one. )


Nobody knows for sure, but I'm with the camp that thinks most of the Losties are still alive and still on the Island. There may be one or more that get killed during the exodus of the O6, but the majority are still there.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Nobody knows for sure, but I'm with the camp that thinks most of the Losties are still alive and still on the Island. There may be one or more that get killed during the exodus of the O6, but the majority are still there.


I second that. I think part of Jack's wanting to get back to the island is to save the rest of them. Besides, I think that the show would be anti-climatic if the O6 were the only ones to survive.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Here's a thought.. There seems to be no reason that makes sense so far for why they are saying that 8 survived instead of 6. So, what if its because of something they "slipped" after getting rescued.. Like Sun's angry because Jack caused Jin's death or something and explodes at him at some point, then the civilians are like "what's up with that? I thought Jin died in the crash?!".. Then they adapt, and say he was survived too, then died later, etc.

Eh.. I dunno, i'm tired.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Here's a thought.. There seems to be no reason that makes sense so far for why they are saying that 8 survived instead of 6. So, what if its because of something they "slipped" after getting rescued.. Like Sun's angry because Jack caused Jin's death or something and explodes at him at some point, then the civilians are like "what's up with that? I thought Jin died in the crash?!".. Then they adapt, and say he was survived too, then died later, etc.
> 
> Eh.. I dunno, i'm tired.


and, my random example about Sun/Jin is obviously wrong since she's publicly confirmed that the fake story version is that he died in the crash..


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I think the only reason the +2 don't make sense to us yet is because they haven't explained it yet.

But I have no doubt that it makes sense.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

So, is Sun's story that she was pregnant when she got on the plane?

That would make her about a month less pregnant than she needs to tell everyone she is. That could have been dangerous medically. When the baby came "early," the doctor thought it was, say, a month early, it was really two months early.


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

aindik said:


> So, is Sun's story that she was pregnant when she got on the plane?
> 
> That would make her about a month less pregnant than she needs to tell everyone she is. That could have been dangerous medically. When the baby came "early," the doctor thought it was, say, a month early, it was really two months early.


Even so, as soon as she were examined, the doctors would say 'are you sure you're x weeks along?' They'd be able to get a good idea. Even if she said she was 30 weeks along (and was really 34 weeks) they'd say her baby was remarkably advanced, especially if she were on a desert island. And they'd want to get that baby out of her, too.

Even if a doctor figured out she was lying, they couldn't say anything. Confidentiality. They'd lose their license if they said anything different (besides, Sun would be sticking to her story, and the doctor would just look bad).


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> So, is Sun's story that she was pregnant when she got on the plane?





Alpinemaps said:


> Even so, as soon as she were examined, the doctors would say 'are you sure you're x weeks along?'


There are other things to consider as well. We have yet to know how island time is relative to time elsewhere. Like with Jack's scar, for all we know, it healed 2 years ago. 

Greg


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

Alpinemaps said:


> Even so, as soon as she were examined, the doctors would say 'are you sure you're x weeks along?' They'd be able to get a good idea. Even if she said she was 30 weeks along (and was really 34 weeks) they'd say her baby was remarkably advanced, especially if she were on a desert island. And they'd want to get that baby out of her, too.
> 
> Even if a doctor figured out she was lying, they couldn't say anything. Confidentiality. They'd lose their license if they said anything different (besides, Sun would be sticking to her story, and the doctor would just look bad).


But it's the other way around, though. She says she got pregnant before she boarded the plane, but she really got pregnant a month later. The baby will appear to be 30 weeks along at 34 weeks. That can be somewhat explained by her poor diet on the island (Hurley's condition notwithstanding).


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

wprager said:


> But it's the other way around, though. She says she got pregnant before she boarded the plane, but she really got pregnant a month later. The baby will appear to be 30 weeks along at 34 weeks. That can be somewhat explained by her poor diet on the island (Hurley's condition notwithstanding).


Right, Alpinemaps has the math backward.

Sun says she's further along than she actually is. When the baby is about to be born at what everyone thinks is week 36, but is really week 32, that's a big difference medically, or could be.


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## sjgmoney (Jun 13, 2006)

I didn't read much intot he "baton" being passed to Locke, other than it was probably Ben's favorite weapon and he knew the soldiers would search him when he surrendered and he didn't want them to get it.

More than a stretch to see it lying next to Jack on the ground, I'm not going for it.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

omelet1978 said:


> So now that we are at the end of season 4......why did they have to press that button every 108 minutes? Other than a big light in the sky and it magically stripping Desmond's clothes off?
> 
> Did I miss something?





Rob Helmerichs said:


> My understanding is that pressing the button was like stopping an earthquake from happening, but the tectonic forces continued to build. Not pressing the button unleashed the earthquake. Turning the key channeled the earthquake energy so it wouldn't destroy the world.
> 
> Now, the tectonic energy is starting to build again, but it will be a while before it reaches dangerous levels.[/metaphor] Before that happens, they'll have to build another button.


http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_button
"The Season 2 finale revealed that the button serves as a discharge mechanism for an electromagnetic anomaly located within the sealed portion of The Swan. The incident, according to Kelvin, was a containment leak which caused a "charge" to build up over time. After 108 minutes, the charge buildup reaches a point where the magnetic field generated behind the concrete begins to have effects within the Swan. The magnetic field will continue to grow and it is implied that if the reaction is not stopped, it could destroy the Earth or at least all life on Earth."
The fail-safe destroyed the cause of the electromagnetic field, but they never explained why they didn't use the fail-safe in the first place. Perhaps to study the button pusher or perhaps because they weren't 100% sure what would happen.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

aindik said:


> Right, Alpinemaps has the math backward.
> 
> Sun says she's further along than she actually is. When the baby is about to be born at what everyone thinks is week 36, but is really week 32, that's a big difference medically, or could be.


As much as this is discussed, I don't see much reason that anyone would care enough to look into it, if this was real life. The press wants to sell the sob stories of the survivors, and they have no reason to suspect they are lying. The airline probably just wants to put the whole thing behind them.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

MickeS said:


> As much as this is discussed, I don't see much reason that anyone would care enough to look into it, if this was real life. The press wants to sell the sob stories of the survivors, and they have no reason to suspect they are lying. The airline probably just wants to put the whole thing behind them.


All I'm saying is that, by telling this lie, Sun puts her baby's life in danger.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Hey wait, now that I think about it, wasn't there some complication during Sun's pregnancy anyway?

Now I gotta go read transcripts..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

The baby was "in distress", they didn't know why.
They said they had to do a c-section.. but then the nurse said the baby was crowning, and the doctor told her to push.. Ji Yeon was born.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> The baby was "in distress", they didn't know why.
> They said they had to do a c-section.. but then the nurse said the baby was crowning, and the doctor told her to push.. Ji Yeon was born.


Earlier in the ep, when Sun was at home, she said something on the phone about it being early, right?

If it was early, it was even earlier than everyone else thought it was.

Sounds like the delivery scene was written to show everyone surprised that the baby was coming out when it was - that it was further along than they thought. Which would be completely backward if the cover story was that she was pregnant on the plane.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

aindik said:


> All I'm saying is that, by telling this lie, Sun puts her baby's life in danger.


When determining the age of a fetus, I think they use both ultrasound (measuring head circumference, for example) and the date of conception, which is commonly based on the day of the last menstruation, and not the date of the actual conception. So it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that the fetus is determined on paper to be a few weeks older than it actually is. I don't think this would pose much of a problem here for any doctor, as they would surely care more about the actual stage of development than the estimated age of the fetus.

Here we are, over thinking things again.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Well, I searched this thread for "Richard," "Alpert," "Temple," and "Batmanuel," but found no results, which really surprises me that nobody has yet mentioned the other Others, led by Richard Alpert, who were supposed to be at the "Temple," but who have now surrounded and taken hostage several of our Losties. What do we think their agenda is?


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I assumed they were going to go and rescue Ben, kill Keamy and his guys, and move the island. Simple. They just took Kate and Sayid because they got in the way. I don't think they'll hurt them. But then how will Kate and Sayid get on the rescue boat/chopper? 

Maybe Sun said she got pregnant on the island. Maybe she said Hurley was the father. That would explain why he came to see the baby.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> I assumed they were going to go and rescue Ben, kill Keamy and his guys, and move the island. Simple. They just took Kate and Sayid because they got in the way. * I don't think they'll hurt them. *


At least not too bad.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think the only reason the +2 don't make sense to us yet is because they haven't explained it yet.
> 
> But I have no doubt that it makes sense.


I also think there will be an explanation. However, if there were 8 initial survivors, one birth, and 6 who made it back, that means there were 3 other survivors who supposedly died later. (8 - 3 + 1 = 6). There's always the possibility that it wasn't anyone we know, but it seems unlikely that they would have included that element in their story without a reason.

As for Sun's pregnancy timing, if Kate can get away with the claim that she was six months pregnant when she wasn't at all, I doubt Sun will have any difficulty. Unless of course their whole story begins to unravel some day. But my guess is that up until the point in time we've seen so far, no one has seriously questioned it.


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Have we speculated on that Other guy (Batmanuel) and how he ages really really well?


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## Alpinemaps (Jul 26, 2004)

Doh! I will fess up to having the math backwards. Oops!

If she had a 'normal' pregnancy (i.e., 40 weeks), then the baby being late a week or two (going to what everyone thought was 42 weeks, but was really 38 weeks), really wouldn't be a big deal. Sometimes babies like to cook longer.

Of course, that wasn't what happened, since the baby came 'early'. I'm now going to step out of the way of the math on this, before I hurt myself.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> As for Sun's pregnancy timing, if Kate can get away with the claim that she was six months pregnant when she wasn't at all, I doubt Sun will have any difficulty. Unless of course their whole story begins to unravel some day. But my guess is that up until the point in time we've seen so far, no one has seriously questioned it.


My post wasn't "how does she keep the story straight," it was "she's putting her baby's health at risk."


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Regarding Ben's baton appearing in the Pilot episode, no way.
Remember, in Episode 1 Jack was supposed to die, and the writers had no idea that Locke would be in a wheelchair later on. 
Ben didn't even exist in the minds of the writers back then.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Donbadabon said:


> Regarding Ben's baton appearing in the Pilot episode, no way.
> Remember, in Episode 1 Jack was supposed to die, and the writers had no idea that Locke would be in a wheelchair later on.
> Ben didn't even exist in the minds of the writers back then.


Huh?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Have we speculated on that Other guy (Batmanuel) and how he ages really really well?


Yes. See all the previous threads for the eps in which he's appeared, including last weeks.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> Regarding Ben's baton appearing in the Pilot episode, no way.
> Remember, in Episode 1 Jack was supposed to die, and the writers had no idea that Locke would be in a wheelchair later on.
> Ben didn't even exist in the minds of the writers back then.


I think I remember that your 1st point was true until they started casting. I'm not sure about the timing of your 2nd point. The 3rd point is completely independent of the other two, besides being completely unsubstantiated.

While I don't think it's the same baton, (the baton looks smaller than that thing from the 1st ep), your theory on how to prove that it's a different one is quite flawed.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jradford said:


> I think I remember that your 1st point was true until they started casting. I'm not sure about the timing of your 2nd point. The 3rd point is completely independent of the other two, besides being completely unsubstantiated.
> 
> While I don't think it's the same baton, (the baton looks smaller than that thing from the 1st ep), your theory on how to prove that it's a different one is quite flawed.


Yeah, Jack was "originally" supposed to die but it would be silly to think that that was the case while they were filming the episode. It was, in fact, changed even before the part was cast. As for Locke, he said to Walt about his "secret" during the pilot, obviously referring to his paralysis, and "later on" was only two episodes later (counting the pilot as one episode). And yes, both points are moot as far as whether they had thought of Ben.

In any case, the theory of Jack having appeared there from "the future" makes no sense. He talked about getting hurt in the plane crash. He talked to and was in scenes with other characters who had been on the plane.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

jradford said:


> I think I remember that your 1st point was true until they started casting. I'm not sure about the timing of your 2nd point. The 3rd point is completely independent of the other two, besides being completely unsubstantiated.
> 
> While I don't think it's the same baton, (the baton looks smaller than that thing from the 1st ep), your theory on how to prove that it's a different one is quite flawed.


I can't remember where I read this, but in an interview with the producers, they stated that originally, the character of Ben was not intended to be the leader of the Others, but the actor was so good, they rewrote his role. Smart producers!


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

jeff125va said:


> Yeah, Jack was "originally" supposed to die but it would be silly to think that that was the case while they were filming the episode. It was, in fact, changed even before the part was cast. As for Locke, he said to Walt about his "secret" during the pilot, obviously referring to his paralysis, and "later on" was only two episodes later (counting the pilot as one episode). And yes, both points are moot as far as whether they had thought of Ben.
> 
> In any case, the theory of Jack having appeared there from "the future" makes no sense. He talked about getting hurt in the plane crash. He talked to and was in scenes with other characters who had been on the plane.


But we are not talking about corporeal time-traveling, necessarily. I think they have two modes: consciousness-based (like Desmond) and physical (like Ben and the bunny).


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

wprager said:


> But we are not talking about corporeal time-traveling, necessarily. I think they have two modes: consciousness-based (like Desmond) and physical (like Ben and the bunny).


There's no indication that it was anything other than what it appeared: Jack waking up after the plane crash. Pure conjecture.

Just heard on the podcast that the repeat of this episode - 8:00 Eastern on 5/29, right before the season finale - will include an expanded version of the press conference scene, with additional questions from reporters (and presumably answers from the 0-6). Not sure if that means fewer commercials or what. Should be interesting.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Just heard on the podcast that the repeat of this episode - 8:00 Eastern on 5/29, right before the season finale - will include an expanded version of the press conference scene, with additional questions from reporters (and presumably answers from the 0-6). Not sure if that means fewer commercials or what. Should be interesting.


Yeah I'm looking forward to watching the expanded version, but you never know, it could just be hype to get us to watch the repeat.

I must say though that it was one of the better podcasts. Everyone whining about them going into seclusion after the series finale should remember that they do this every season, they're maintaining "radio silence" for 8 months.

Since this was a discussion in the podcast I'll tag it...



Spoiler



One thing brought up that I found really interesting was Jack trying to commit suicide in last year's season finale... he wasn't able to kill himself, there was an intervention (the car accident). Kind of like Michael. Kind of like Widmore & Ben not being able to kill each other.



Greg


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

gchance said:


> Yeah I'm looking forward to watching the expanded version, but you never know, it could just be hype to get us to watch the repeat.
> 
> I must say though that it was one of the better podcasts. Everyone whining about them going into seclusion after the series finale should remember that they do this every season, they're maintaining "radio silence" for 8 months.


They will appear again at Comicon in July, so it's not total radio silence until next January. Last year at Comicon, they debuted the orchid video and announced that Harrold Parreneau was re-joining the cast.

They also promised "a couple" (I think is what they said) of podcasts between the finale and the season premiere in January.



gchance said:


> Since this was a discussion in the podcast I'll tag it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that was a fairly big revelation and a much straighter answer than they usually give to a question like that.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

aindik said:


> They will appear again at Comicon in July, so it's not total radio silence until next January. Last year at Comicon, they debuted the orchid video and announced that Harrold Parreneau was re-joining the cast.


You're definitely right. I forgot about Comicon.

It's so funny though that with the internet and things like podcasts, we have such an intimate view of TV shows. Back in the day, you wouldn't even know a show was even coming back for the next season until you saw an ad for it, or something in TV Guide.

Greg


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

gchance said:


> Since this was a discussion in the podcast I'll tag it...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





aindik said:


> Yeah, that was a fairly big revelation and a much straighter answer than they usually give to a question like that.





Spoiler



Yes, that was interesting, especially that they were so straightforward in confirming what Ben meant about not being able to kill Widmore. Interesting, too, that "the island" would go to such lengths to keep Jack from killing himself - didn't the girl and/or the mom suffer some burns after crashing into Jack's car? Also interesting that "the island" would exploit Jack's need to save people in order to save him.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that was interesting, especially that they were so straightforward in confirming what Ben meant about not being able to kill Widmore. Interesting, too, that "the island" would go to such lengths to keep Jack from killing himself - didn't the girl and/or the mom suffer some burns after crashing into Jack's car? Also interesting that "the island" would exploit Jack's need to save people in order to save him.





Spoiler



I took that comment to mean it more like they were collateral damage, like there was some sort of protection AROUND Jack and they got caught up in it. Of course maybe it was just Earl's (er Jack's) karma. 



Greg


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## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

Cindy1230 said:


> *This* theory is really interesting.
> 
> They went back and watched the pilot episode and you see the stick/baton (or something that looks a lot like it) next to Jack's head before he gets up from the ground. They show the screen cap on the site.
> 
> "Some" people are saying that this is future jack getting back to the island, which boogles my mind. Not sure if i even want to go there, but thought it was worth bringing up here.


Looks like a mag-lite or something bigger, not that slim baton thing Ben had in Tunisia/gave to Locke. 

KD


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

gchance said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I think the intent was certainly to save Jack, but if the island (or whatever supernatural power is really at force) _caused_ the car crash in the same way that it caused both guns to misfire, that's not what I'd really call "collateral." I think of collateral damage is an indirect result of something else. Causing the car crash was a direct action that was taken to achieve the indirect result of saving Jack.

I don't mean to argue that point, I'm just trying to say that evidently the island will go to great lengths to ensure that certain people will not be killed.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If a car is going to crash somewhere....

What is comicon? I heard them refer to it on the podcast but don't know what it is. I did see the orchid thing somewhere last year, but I think I just followed a link and didn't know where I was.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> If a car is going to crash somewhere....
> 
> What is comicon? I heard them refer to it on the podcast but don't know what it is. I did see the orchid thing somewhere last year, but I think I just followed a link and didn't know where I was.


http://www.comic-con.org/


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> What is comicon?


Clearly, we have a non-geek in our midst.


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## jimborst (Aug 30, 2001)

I hope no one here hates me for this, off topic but....Since I am a big Lost fan and recently bought a PS3 (mainly for the Blue-Ray player), I was wondering about the Lost game. Is it for a specific time in the series (for example before we were in the hatch, after?). I hate shooter games, so if that's what it's like I really wouldn't care for it, but I did see it and was intrigued.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

It's more like Myst, from what I can tell. I haven't played it but here's a nice write up from the Lostpedia folks.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

jimborst said:


> I hope no one here hates me for this, off topic but....Since I am a big Lost fan and recently bought a PS3 (mainly for the Blue-Ray player), I was wondering about the Lost game. Is it for a specific time in the series (for example before we were in the hatch, after?). I hate shooter games, so if that's what it's like I really wouldn't care for it, but I did see it and was intrigued.


Can you rent it anywhere and try it out? If you do, let us know!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

mqpickles said:


> Clearly, we have a non-geek in our midst.


Oh no!! I'm outted. Please don't banish me.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

no lost tonite....


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I feel.... 

Lost.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

Aw, it's not so bad. There was two-hours of "Pop-up Video" LOST last night that is waiting on my TiVo...


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Yeah I saw the Tivo was recording it, glad they're doing it again. I like to watch those, but my wife can't stand it. Actually what I do is watch it at 2x speed and just read all the popups. 

Greg


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

latrobe7 said:


> Aw, it's not so bad. There was two-hours of "Pop-up Video" LOST last night that is waiting on my TiVo...





gchance said:


> Yeah I saw the Tivo was recording it, glad they're doing it again. I like to watch those, but my wife can't stand it. Actually what I do is watch it at 2x speed and just read all the popups.
> 
> Greg


I was a bit surprised that my S3 was recording it when I saw the show title on the OLED. I only record first runs. I even double checked the SP to make sure I had first ones only selected. Then I turned on the show and was very happily surprised to see the popups. I love those! I have a very hard time remembering everything that happens, so these really help me out a lot.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I was a bit surprised that my S3 was recording it when I saw the show title on the OLED. I only record first runs. I even double checked the SP to make sure I had first ones only selected. Then I turned on the show and was very happily surprised to see the popups. I love those! I have a very hard time remembering everything that happens, so these really help me out a lot.


It was in the listings with both episodes in a two-hour block, so that may be the reason it was picked up as a first-run. Actually, I'm pretty sure I've had the enhanced episodes record before even when they were single episodes repeated, so I think either one would do it.


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## Cindy1230 (Oct 31, 2003)

latrobe7 said:


> Aw, it's not so bad. There was two-hours of "Pop-up Video" LOST last night that is waiting on my TiVo...


TiVo didn't record it.  Was it this episode? Anyone watch yet, anything interesting on the pop-ups?


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

It was "Something Nice back Home" and "Cabin Fever" back to back; can't tell you if there was anything of interest, I haven't watched yet...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

According to this interview with James Holloway (Sawyer), he alludes to


Spoiler



the fact that Sawyer is still alive and well on the island after the O6 leave.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> According to this interview with James Holloway (Sawyer), he alludes to
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Hmm.



Spoiler



When he says we find out who's in the casket "in the finale," did you take that to mean the season finale? I wasn't expecting to find out so soon.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> Hmm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you listen to the podcasts,



Spoiler



they've been VERY clear that the occupant of the coffin will be revealed this season (in the finale)


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> According to this interview with James Holloway (Sawyer), he alludes to
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



I'm not surprised. I suspect that starting next season, we'll see "present-day" events both on the island (with Sawyer, et. al.) and off the island (with the O-6 and Ben).


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Forgive me if it was mentioned in this thread, but am I remembering correctly that tomorrow we'll finally find out who's in the coffin? My money is still on Ben, but I'm just looking for some closure....


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Paperboy2003 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Forgive me if it was mentioned in this thread, but am I remembering correctly that tomorrow we'll finally find out who's in the coffin? My money is still on Ben, but I'm just looking for some closure....


The answer to that question is in spoiler tags in several of the posts preceding yours. I'd recommend going back and spoiler-tagging your post as well.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Ok, caught up, and not reading anything more in this thread (managed to see the last post before this and that it said to Turtleboy to spoiler tag something, which luckily I'd missed). 

Didn't see any previews or anything. Can't wait! See you in the next thread!


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Ok, caught up, and not reading anything more in this thread (managed to see the last post before this and that it said to Turtleboy to spoiler tag something, which luckily I'd missed).
> 
> Didn't see any previews or anything. Can't wait! See you in the next thread!


Not I, said the Turtle.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

From what I hear,



Spoiler



spoiler



So I can't wait.

Greg


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Just a random thought&#8230;&#8230;..All along the producers have said that at some point the idea of flash forward and flash back will have no real meaning (I could have gotten that a little wrong). IIRC, I think the conventional wisdom is that this meant what we think could happen is that the back and forward will catch up to each other&#8230;.i.e., maybe next season will have just &#8220;present day&#8221; on and off the island.

However, knowing that the last ep had the big line &#8220;He said we have to move the Island&#8221;&#8230;&#8230;What if moving the Island does not mean in space, but also in time? If it is moved in space, they might eventually be able to find it. But if it is moved in time, and those not on the Island are trying to find the Island, they will likely never find it. Unless of course a big electromagnetic anomaly occurs and someone happens to be monitoring for such an occurrence.

I know none of this makes any sense, but it is fun to wonder. I am really looking forward to tonight.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I don't know why this only now occured to me (is it a Smeek?), but the titles of the last three episodes are "There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home."


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't know why this only now occured to me (is it a Smeek?), but the titles of the last three episodes are "There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home."


very good


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

How many of you guys watched the pop up video version? One thing that struck me was exactly how much has happened this season... they referred back to a TON of prior episodes. It had to have been at least 5.

Greg


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

My Tivo didn't pick it up. What was in the extended press conference scene?


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> My Tivo didn't pick it up. What was in the extended press conference scene?


The identities and fates (fictitous, of course, although not necessarily without a grain of truth) of the other three initial survivors: Boone and Libby, both of whom died shortly after their arrival on the island, and Charlie, who drowned a few weeks before they got off the island.

I was surprised that none of the popups explained why Jack said at Kate's trial that they had been on an island in the South Pacific. There was even one that said something to the effect that their story was the same one Jack told at the trial.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't know why this only now occured to me (is it a Smeek?), but the titles of the last three episodes are "There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home."


My guide data has only two episodes, but they are both "There's No Place Like Home."


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> My guide data has only two episodes, but they are both "There's No Place Like Home."


Last night's was two episodes ("There's No Place Like Home" parts 2 and 3) shown in one block.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Last night's was two episodes ("There's No Place Like Home" parts 2 and 3) shown in one block.


Oh, I thought you meant according to the guide data. According to a thread in the SP Alerts, some people have guide data with part 2 & part 3 in two separate blocks, both with the same title.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Turtleboy said:


> Not I, said the Turtle.


doh, sorry, wrong boy.  (luckily I'd only skimmed it)

Rob, LOL.. Awesome - can't believe I missed that either.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> doh, sorry, wrong boy.  (luckily I'd only skimmed it)


Turtle, Paper, tough to keep those straight... I had heard in the podcast that that was going to be revealed. And it's not like the actual revelation was in the post. Still, I know some people like watching with no expectations whatsoever.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't know why this only now occured to me (is it a Smeek?), but the titles of the last three episodes are "There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home. There's No Place Like Home."


Nice catch, Rob!


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