# The Sopranos - "Mr. & Mrs. John Sacrimoni Request.." OAD: week of 4-9-2006 *spoilers*



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

About the only thing that didn't get wrapped up last week (since they opted not to have a garbage war!) is how much more Paulie Walnuts unravels before something happens to him?

The description for tonites show doesn't seem that inspiring, but maybe things will be better than expected. Here's hoping.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Really big LOL at T.'s question of Dr. Melfi. The big guy still has a sense of humor (and/or hopes for gettin' some of Melfi).


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## brookzy (Mar 26, 2003)

Tony's heavy breathing drives me nuts!!!


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Vito is definitely in for it, if he doesn't take the man's way out and kill himself first. Getting caught in that bar was just plain stupid. The trip to the hotel here as I watch live has me thinking he's definitely gonna off himself. Too bad he couldn't be the one that was ordered to take care of Johnny Sac's munchkin, he could have made things easier all around for everyone that way.

I guess Meadow's beau may have a lot less to worry about in the next few episodes... I wonder if that means her engagement winds up being cancelled?


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Ok, color me really friggin' confused. I understand that T. was trying to be the alpha male, but was he really hallucinating about the fridge door? He certainly had his crew confused about what he was saying, and I'd have to think that being seen as crazy has got to be just as bad, if not much worse than being weak.


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

Spoiler



"Maybe he was a **** and didn't think he could talk to anyone about it."


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Oh, Vito! That look just HAS to go!


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## ngsmith (Jan 18, 2002)

Zzzzzz.

Dream sequences were more interesting that that episode.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

brookzy said:


> Tony's heavy breathing drives me nuts!!!


I totally agree. I'm not sure if Gandolfini is playing it up, has a deviated setpum, or what, but it's very annoying!!


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

Tony made up that stuff about the refrigerator so he could take out Muscles Marinara -- the most physically imposing guy in the room -- and be the alpha dog again.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

Tony's just trying to show that he still has it, he's #1, and don't f*** with him!


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## deli99 (Nov 12, 2003)

sgsmith said:


> Zzzzzz.
> 
> Dream sequences were more interesting that that episode.


Really? I thought it was a great episode. Tony reasserting his leadership, the Vito storyline getting some closure, and some good lines. My two favorites:

Ginny Sac: "I'm only 8 pounds away from my goal"  
AJ's date: (while smoking) "I don't eat fish; the toxins"


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Tony's just trying to show that he still has it, he's #1, and don't f*** with him!


I hope his throwing up afterward was because he was sickened by his own behavior.  :down:

$425,000!  Next time I'm up that way maybe I'll swing by Leonard's Dolce Vita -- a beautiful reception venue. Johnny Sac's got taste, even in the can.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Anyone care to guess how much the Sopranos put in their envelope? My guess....... $5,000?


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

deli99 said:


> Really? I thought it was a great episode. Tony reasserting his leadership, the Vito storyline getting some closure, and some good lines. My two favorites:
> 
> Ginny Sac: "I'm only 8 pounds away from my goal"
> AJ's date: (while smoking) "I don't eat fish; the toxins"


I agree this was an excellent episode.


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## IndyTom (Mar 9, 2004)

re: Vito

When it comes to the Soprano's I don't think anyone is dead until I see their head in a bowling bag or a meat grinder.

I have a feeling that Vito may have decided to "off" the two dudes that saw him instead.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

IndyTom said:


> re: Vito
> 
> When it comes to the Soprano's I don't think anyone is dead until I see their head in a bowling bag or a meat grinder.
> 
> I have a feeling that Vito may have decided to "off" the two dudes that saw him instead.


Well, the other possibility is that Vito makes friends with the feds and demands to be witness relocated to the Blue Oyster bar, or perhaps to San Francisco so he can fade into the scene there 

Edited to add: on the more serious side, thanks to Carm's warning about Vito, T. of course gets to fret a bit that Vito is trying to run off with $$ that should be T.'s That doesn't bode well for Vito in T.'s world either.

I'm thinking that no matter what Vito is in a world of hurt, and because of that, I expect he probably did take the easy way out -- he'll be found dead on the bed, and/or (without having paid attention to previews, or recalling anything about this in previews) will be the subject of a funeral in a coming episode.


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## Stylin (Dec 31, 2004)

Poor Vito - we knew it was inevitable that he'd be outed. I don't understand why he didn't just shoot the 2 guys that caught him (in shock maybe?) or maybe something will happen in the next ep.

My fav line was Tony to Melfi - "So does this mean I get a freebie?" - he never misses an opportunity...

Steve Van Zandt's (aka Silvio) daughter(?) played J Sach's bride daughter tonight. As noted before Braaco's (Melfi) sister played Vito's wife.

I think the wedding gift envelope had a lot more than $5K. I guestimate somewhere between 10-20K.

Spoiler: highlight to read: BTW, when I slowed down next week's preview Carm walks in while *****'s wife is giving an envelope (on the sly) to one of Tony's guys - the older one with the glasses (he had a twin bro that Tony offed) - Guess that explains the corvette - I know Carm is too jealous to let the corvette go, so this will definitely get back to Tony.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Hey Vito- Name *two* bad things to put in your mouth!


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I'm always looking for the next unexpected hit. I was just waiting for Johnny Sac to get wacked outside the wedding...

I kind of thought that maybe Tony had set up that fight with the bodyguard. There's no way Tony wins that fight if the guy is really fighting back. But the crew was impressed, and that's the whole point...


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

hefe said:


> ...There's no way Tony wins that fight if the guy is really fighting back...


Yeah, with all that lost 'muscle mass' and whatnot.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Anybody know what movie Vito's wife was watching before he went to the gay club? It was definitely Rock Hudson, and my wife thought the actress was Deborah Kerr.

It can't have been an accident that it had Rock Hudson - a man who kept his homosexuality a secret for years before having it revealed at the end of his life.


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## robinreale (Jan 24, 2006)

brookzy said:


> Tony's heavy breathing drives me nuts!!!


I kept looking around the room thinking it was either my back speakers or my husband's breathing. It was absolutely overbearing.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Allegra, isn't that a cold medicine?


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## TiVoSoFine (Mar 19, 2001)

Best line from Chris: "Where are the rest of the 40 thieves?"


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

If Christopher made a crack like that about Meadow, Tony would be stuffing both of his feet into his mouth.

And it wasn't a "freebie" Tony asked for -- it was something much cruder. Of course, we can't say exactly what on this forum. Got rules, y'know. 

Wouldn't it be funny if those Arabs kept escalating their demands -- a truckload of fertilizer, some timing devices, a bit of C4 ("we have to remove some tree stumps from our backyard"), and clueless Chrissy just gets it for them?


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## tiellv (Nov 11, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> Anybody know what movie Vito's wife was watching before he went to the gay club? It was definitely Rock Hudson, and my wife thought the actress was Deborah Kerr.
> 
> It can't have been an accident that it had Rock Hudson - a man who kept his homosexuality a secret for years before having it revealed at the end of his life.


It wasn't Rock Hudson, it was John Gavin with Lana Turner and the movie was "Imitation of Life" .

.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

TiVo'Brien said:


> I hope his throwing up afterward was because he was sickened by his own behavior. :down:


Could we just have one episode without projectile vomitting? :down: :down: :down:

Before I had to close my eyes, I saw he was vomitting blood, so he probably tore something inside or stitches when beating the young guy.

The second best line was the bride saying to her mother that it was too bad she didn't make her [8 pound] goal. Definately some beef in that family...

Cheryl


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

hefe said:


> I kind of thought that maybe Tony had set up that fight with the bodyguard. There's no way Tony wins that fight if the guy is really fighting back. But the crew was impressed, and that's the whole point...


That was my initial take on it as well. But Tony seemed to be looking around the room to find the appropriate guy to take out but they were all so badly out of shape he decided the bodyguard was the only guy that would work. On the other hand it had to be a setup, one minute Tony couldn't bend over to untie his shoes and then he takes out Mr. Muscles....


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## RangersRBack (Jan 9, 2006)

Damn Meadow is hot.


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## zuko3984 (May 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> I kind of thought that maybe Tony had set up that fight with the bodyguard. There's no way Tony wins that fight if the guy is really fighting back. But the crew was impressed, and that's the whole point...


I was thinking the same thing but if they did set it up you would think they could come up with a better plan. At least have the bodyguard guy do something to get tony mad at him. The way they did it it looks like tony is insane just starting a fight with him over slamming a door that no one else saw him slam. I know tony wanted to show he is still in charge but this makes him look like a loose cannon or insane and while beating up that guy may show that tony is still not to be messed with it can also put some doubt in other about if they want to follow a crazy man. They may think anyone could be next for not even doing anything.


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## GerryGag (Feb 11, 2005)

zuko3984 said:


> They may think anyone could be next for not even doing anything.


I kinda thought that was the point.

Did anyone else have a flashback of Joe Pesci in Goodfellas during this scene?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Loved that it was directed by Steve Buscemi!!!!!!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I don't think the fight was set up, and I wasn't surprised that Tony won so decisively. When the bodyguard first showed up, my thought was "This guy is all show." I suspect the only reason he would EVER won a fight is because the other guy would back down in terror. He may be big and muscular, but Tony is big and mean as hell, and I'll bet on mean as hell over muscular any time.

But when Tony was sizing up the room, I got a definite gay vibe, which shocked the hell out of me. In fact, I wondered if that whole morning sequence wasn't a dream. Then he went after the bodyguard, and the light bulb went off (ever so dimly) over my head!


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

I thought the song playing when father and bride were dancing was funny.

"Daddy's little girl."

If 180+ is little.

The fight was unbelievable, though I don't think it was set up. When Johnny Sac was crying while being taken away, everyone was making claims how he was becoming weak. Tony had to have a strong showing to save face.

Frank


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

GerryGag said:


> I kinda thought that was the point.
> 
> Did anyone else have a flashback of Joe Pesci in Goodfellas during this scene?


For me it recalled Feech La Manna's story of how on his first day in prison he provoked a fight with "the biggest, baddest black mf'r" to establish his own reputation as a top dog.


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## TiVoSoFine (Mar 19, 2001)

fmowry said:


> I thought the song playing when father and bride were dancing was funny.
> 
> "Daddy's little girl."
> 
> ...


180+20 maybe?


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

I thought the best line was "50 pound bundle of joy"


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## mrpantstm (Jan 25, 2005)

I doubt Vito will kill himself. While the other guy who committed suicide seemed to be pushed into a corner by both Tony and his wife and chose the suicide route, I don't see Vito as the kind of character to take that option. I'd expect him to either go into hiding (which is partially done so far), go to the FEDs, or make a play for some power, maybe trying to get in with NY but this is less likely since he'll soon be outed.

Good episode.


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

TiVo'Brien said:


> I hope his throwing up afterward was because he was sickened by his own behavior. :down:
> 
> $425,000!  Next time I'm up that way maybe I'll swing by Leonard's Dolce Vita -- a beautiful reception venue. Johnny Sac's got taste, even in the can.


AKA Leonard's of Great Neck. I was Bar Mitzva'd there way back when.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

JFriday said:


> I thought the best line was "50 pound bundle of joy"


I got a big laugh out of that, too.

Johnny's other daughter seems to have weight problems, too. She looked positively anorexic.


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## bigrig (Jul 1, 2004)

mrpantstm said:


> I doubt Vito will kill himself. While the other guy who committed suicide seemed to be pushed into a corner by both Tony and his wife and chose the suicide route, I don't see Vito as the kind of character to take that option. I'd expect him to either go into hiding (which is partially done so far), go to the FEDs, or make a play for some power, maybe trying to get in with NY but this is less likely since he'll soon be outed.
> 
> Good episode.


Exactly what I was thinking, too. They seemed to try to hint that he's going to kill himself, but I think it's more likely he's going to try to kill the guys that saw him at the club.

Matt


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

I think Vito's got something in mind besides simple suicide. Why call Sil? It seemed like to me he called him with some idle chit chat, just to get in the part "if you need me, call my cell." I'm thinking he setting up an alibi of being out of town as he wacks those two.

Better hurry up though, the gossip train will be running full tilt. I know if it was me that saw him, I'da called 30 people in five minutes


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

fmowry said:


> I thought the song playing when father and bride were dancing was funny.
> 
> "Daddy's little girl."


Heh. I was thinking, "You know, that's a choice that could REALLY backfire if Johnny takes it the wrong way!"


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

rimler said:


> I think Vito's got something in mind besides simple suicide. Why call Sil? It seemed like to me he called him with some idle chit chat, just to get in the part "if you need me, call my cell." I'm thinking he setting up an alibi of being out of town as he wacks those two.
> 
> Better hurry up though, the gossip train will be running full tilt. I know if it was me that saw him, I'da called 30 people in five minutes


That last bit is why I thought he called Silvio. Had those two blabbed already? I would have thought they would be on their cells the second they got outside the club. What was interesting was how quickly they had lost any fear/respect for Vito when they saw him.


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## mizterd99 (Nov 22, 2002)

I think Vito is too chicken to off himself. I see him trying to lay low then the news will spread and he will try and run but end up dead. 

Tony definitely singled out muscles for the fight to unquestionably re-affirm his position as the alpha. It doesn't matter if it was over nothing (i.e. something made up), the captains et al will get the picture (and it's his prerogative to beat somebody from time to time, right?).


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think the fight was set up, and I wasn't surprised that Tony won so decisively. When the bodyguard first showed up, my thought was "This guy is all show." I suspect the only reason he would EVER won a fight is because the other guy would back down in terror. He may be big and muscular, but Tony is big and mean as hell, and I'll bet on mean as hell over muscular any time.


While I agree that big muscles != good fighter, they had made it pretty clear that Tony was in horrible health. I imagine one punch to the scar and Tony would be down for the count, regardless of how mean he is. I think it was more complicated than that. Much like the other guys let Tony win at cards, I think Mr. Muscle knew better than to beat Tony. If he beats Tony, then what? He's dead.

tk


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

The guy didn't let Tony win, Tony knew from the car episode that he was a loose cannon who WOULD fight back. Everyone else in the room would not, because he's the boss and they know better. This way, he takes out a young buck, one that shows the rest that he is top dog and that he can take any of them out when they actually DO fight back, so watch out. You really think that him punching Vinni C would strike fear into the ranks?

It wasn't staged, it was vintage Tony Soprano, and this episode was top notch again, IMO.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

pendragn said:


> While I agree that big muscles != good fighter, they had made it pretty clear that Tony was in horrible health. I imagine one punch to the scar and Tony would be down for the count, regardless of how mean he is. I think it was more complicated than that. Much like the other guys let Tony win at cards, I think Mr. Muscle knew better than to beat Tony. If he beats Tony, then what? He's dead.
> 
> tk


I disagree, he was shown to be a hothead.

The whole thing with Tony checking out forearms was him measuring up in his mind who best to take down to re-assert his leadership role, if you ask me we saw a play of opposites in this episode, Tony taking his control back and Johnny Sacs losing his because of the breakdown in the wedding.

The thing with the fridge was just Tony's excuse to pick a fight.

His getting sick was probably due more to the physical exersion and strain on his still healing system then any remorse he felt, cause I'm pretty sure that was one nasty grin on his face in the mirror before he puked the second time.

I think the heavy breathing is there as a plot device, they seem to be making sure you notice it.


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## 2DoubleDown7 (May 17, 2004)

Big Deficit said:


> AKA Leonard's of Great Neck. I was Bar Mitzva'd there way back when.


I knew the inside when I saw it - been to 2 weddings there - amazing place!

Leonard's - La Dolce Vita


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

I don't think the fact that Tony clearly picked a fight over something that didn't happen, making him look a little crazy, works against him in the least. On the contrary, mean _and_ a bit crazy sends a pretty clear "don't mess with me" message.


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## G8rMan (May 26, 2005)

Mr. Soze said:


> That last bit is why I thought he called Silvio. Had those two blabbed already? I would have thought they would be on their cells the second they got outside the club. What was interesting was how quickly they had lost any fear/respect for Vito when they saw him.


It seemed to me like Vito was fishing to see if Sil knew he was outted. Being that Sil made no mention of it, Vito might feel free to off the 2 guys that spotted him before they can do any damage.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

Tony definitely picked the fight to reassert his alpha male status...when he was talking to Melfi he said he was noticing that people were questioning him, and she outright gave him the advice to make a show of strength. Before that, I was surprised how Christopher was talking back to Tony when Tony told him his plan for offing Rusty. Do you think prior to the shooting ANYONE would have questioned Tony's plans to his face...let alone calling it a "***** move"?!!? Tony had to set everyone straight...the fight with muscles was his way of doing it.

As for Vito, I agree he's in hiding waiting to make his move, not to kill himself. His phone call to Sil was to check if the word had gotten out yet. 

I think there's a clue in the music...when Vito was checking into the motel, they were playing the song "all the chapels bells were ringing.." (not sure of the title). I'm almost certain they played that before in one of the episodes this season...anyone remember?


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

2DoubleDown7 said:


> I knew the inside when I saw it - been to 2 weddings there - amazing place!
> 
> Leonard's - La Dolce Vita


The pics on the site agree with you -- amazing place! 

I'll bet their cheapest wedding would start at $40k.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

G8rMan said:


> It seemed to me like Vito was fishing to see if Sil knew he was outted. Being that Sil made no mention of it, Vito might feel free to off the 2 guys that spotted him before they can do any damage.


That's what I was thinking too. But near the end someone said they hadn't heard from Vito "in a couple of days". If he was going to whack those two he would have had to do it the same night before they could blab about him.


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## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I don't think the fight was set up, and I wasn't surprised that Tony won so decisively. When the bodyguard first showed up, my thought was "This guy is all show." I suspect the only reason he would EVER won a fight is because the other guy would back down in terror. He may be big and muscular, but Tony is big and mean as hell, and I'll bet on mean as hell over muscular any time.
> 
> But when Tony was sizing up the room, I got a definite gay vibe, which shocked the hell out of me. In fact, I wondered if that whole morning sequence wasn't a dream. Then he went after the bodyguard, and the light bulb went off (ever so dimly) over my head!


Yes plus the fact that Mr. Muscles would have hesitated to go all out in trying to fight Tony. If he had kicked Tony's ass he would have won the battle--but surely lost the war.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

So I guess now the other tough will be Tony's driver/body guard (the guy who got Tony water and took off his shoes)?


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## waldingrl (Jan 19, 2005)

I love how they show just how weak Tony & Johnny are in this episode and then at the end TOny gets his fire back. Great scene with him in the bathroom at the end - you can see the fire back in his eyes. :up: Now _that's_ hot.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It's obvious to me that Vito intended to kill himself. Otherwise, there would have been no reason to go to the motel.

Of course, without blood and brains splattered against the wall, it's not at all obvious that he went through with it, and in fact, since at least a couple of days have passed with no word (the motel people would have found his body even if they didn't hear the shot, and I'm sure Tony's crew would have heard something pretty quick), I'm assuming he chickened out and went to Plan B.

Which is..?


JLWINE said:


> Yes plus the fact that Mr. Muscles would have hesitated to go all out in trying to fight Tony. If he had kicked Tony's ass he would have won the battle--but surely lost the war.


Oh, I think he went all out. He certainly went after Tony hard once he realized that Tony was really trying to hurt him. He just never stood a chance--Tony judo-d his charge into the fridge, and that was the end of it. I just think Mr. Muscles was one of those guys who's all about looking tough, but doesn't have a clue what BEING tough really is. And Tony figured that out, probably during the first car ride.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

pendragn said:


> Much like the other guys let Tony win at cards, I think Mr. Muscle knew better than to beat Tony. If he beats Tony, then what? He's dead.
> 
> tk


I considered that, but didn't the meathead charge back at Tony after he hit him? They showed earlier in the episode that he doesn't really have the ability to control his rage, when Tony had to stop him from going out and giving a beatdown to the truck driver that cut him off.

When someone like that gets into it, they are blind to loic and reason.

I think that what probably happened is Tony just plain beat the guy. It serves the story, although it is unbelieveable in light of the physical differences and the weakened state Tony should be in.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I just think Mr. Muscles was one of those guys who's all about looking tough, but doesn't have a clue what BEING tough really is. And Tony figured that out, probably during the first car ride.


That makes some sense. Tony must have figured that he could make him mad enough to react in a predictable way.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

TiVo'Brien said:


> So I guess now the other tough will be Tony's driver/body guard (the guy who got Tony water and took off his shoes)?


Nah ... I think Tony will take care of him by slipping him a couple grand. Not that he'll admit to why he did it, just that he's sorry he went crazy on his ass.

I initially thought he was just going to threaten his crew as a bunch of malingerers but turned out to be a great sequence of scenes - Tony's meeting /w Melfi, his collapsing, Johnny Sac blubbering, the crews gossiping and then him kicking ass.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I doubt Mr. Muscles has the street cred to be a bodyguard any more.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

Is anyone else disturbed by Finn's appearance? He's got this horseface look about him. Meadow could do much better. 

Frank


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

PURE SPECULATION ON MY PART:

Chris will die by the end of this 12 episdoe stretch! 

Here's how I think it will happen....Tony & Chris bring in the guys from Naples to kill Frankie Vallie.....they mess us and he lives......FV finds out that it was arranged by Tony (when it was really started by Johnny Sac and Phil)....they take out Chris...and the mini 12 ep season ends with the families in a war!

Also regarding Vito......remember that Phil Leotardo is Vito's wifes cousin....and I think they guys who saw him in the gay bar are part of Phil's crew as well. Perhaps Phil finds out and holds it over his head and has him take care of things from his 'inside' position within Tony's crew.

I'm sure I'll be wrong, but it's always fun trying to predict....


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## johnspalm (Dec 24, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's obvious to me that Vito intended to kill himself. Otherwise, there would have been no reason to go to the motel.
> 
> Of course, without blood and brains splattered against the wall, it's not at all obvious that he went through with it, and in fact, since at least a couple of days have passed with no word (the motel people would have found his body even if they didn't hear the shot, and I'm sure Tony's crew would have heard something pretty quick), I'm assuming he chickened out and went to Plan B.


I believe that the motel was nothing more than a place to stay for the night, away from a known location. The purpose of the gun is obvious...protection.

We can pretty much consider Vito to be "on the lam".


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

fmowry said:


> Is anyone else disturbed by Finn's appearance? He's got this horseface look about him. Meadow could do much better.
> 
> Frank


Yeah, I noticed that about Finn, too. He wasn't looking so good. Plus, wasn't he supposed to be away at dental school in California? That's a lot of travel just to accompany Meadow to a wedding.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's obvious to me that Vito intended to kill himself. Otherwise, there would have been no reason to go to the motel.
> 
> Of course, without blood and brains splattered against the wall, it's not at all obvious that he went through with it, and in fact, since at least a couple of days have passed with no word (the motel people would have found his body even if they didn't hear the shot, and I'm sure Tony's crew would have heard something pretty quick), I'm assuming he chickened out and went to Plan B.
> 
> Which is..?


If he paid for several days at the motel and put a Do Not Disturb sign on the door, he might not have been found by the motel people yet. But why would he do that if he was just going to shoot himself? It's a possibility, but it doesn't quite add up.

As far as Plan B, discrediting the two goons who saw him might be easier than killing them - and then it won't matter if they told anyone (it would be perceived as a desperate last ditch effort to save themselves). E.g., he might try to frame them as being police informants. Or as gay themselves ... maybe have someone slip them mickeys and take photos of them in a highly gay mutual embrace (if you know what I mean).

Does anybody else find the whole "Vito is gay" story line contrived? I've never rolled my eyes at any Sopranos story line other than this one. I'm just not buying Vito as a gay man. I rolled my eyes when I saw his interaction with the other guy in the club, just like I rolled my eyes when he pleasured the guy in the truck. And what, he's so overcome by gay lust by attending a wedding that he throws all caution to the wind and dresses up in his Village People outfit and cavorts about a gay club with hundreds of guys, risking being seen by other mafioso, which would certainly ruin him? Come on, *rolls eyes*. The "mafia guy is gay" thing was a great idea ..... but Vito was absolutely not the right vehicle for it.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

tiellv said:


> It wasn't Rock Hudson, it was John Gavin with Lana Turner and the movie was "Imitation of Life" .


So any theories on why the producers would choose that movie to be playing when Vito leaves to go to the gay club?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

hefe said:


> I think that what probably happened is Tony just plain beat the guy. It serves the story, although it is unbelieveable in light of the physical differences and the weakened state Tony should be in.


I don't agree...the fight lasted 5 seconds...he was ready for it and toughed it out...and it did take a toll on him...

size doesn't matter unless you're in a sumo match...Tony knows how to fight, the other guy didn't...


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## montag (Mar 10, 2001)

Graymalkin said:


> If Mikey made a crack like that about Meadow, Tony would be stuffing both of his feet into his mouth.
> 
> And it wasn't a "freebie" Tony asked for -- it was something much cruder. Of course, we can't say exactly what on this forum. Got rules, y'know.
> 
> Wouldn't it be funny if those Arabs kept escalating their demands -- a truckload of fertilizer, some timing devices, a bit of C4 ("we have to remove some tree stumps from our backyard"), and clueless Mikey just gets it for them?


 Are you talking about Christopher?


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## Bars & Tone (Aug 28, 2004)

2DoubleDown7 said:


> I knew the inside when I saw it - been to 2 weddings there - amazing place!
> 
> Leonard's - La Dolce Vita


The music they play during the website's intro sounds like something out of Halo!


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## tony touch (Jul 16, 2004)

fmowry said:


> Is anyone else disturbed by Finn's appearance? He's got this horseface look about him. Meadow could do much better.
> 
> Frank


Yea I agree he is not good looking. But you gotta remember having a good career makes up for looks, especially when you're dealing with princess-type girls like Meadow.


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## HDTivoDesire (Apr 6, 2003)

When Tony was in the car being driven by Mr. Muscles the bodyguard, the camera showed a close-up of Tony focusing in on the bodyguard's right bicep. It was concave, as if he had been shot in the bicep and then it healed some time ago.

During the fight, when the bodyguard gets up off the floor to counter-attack, Tony grabs the right arm as the bodyguard screams in pain "MY ARM!!!!!"

It seemed pretty obvious to me that Tony knew the bodyguard had a weak right arm and exploited this to easily beat him up.


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## HDTivoDesire (Apr 6, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> So any theories on why the producers would choose that movie to be playing when Vito leaves to go to the gay club?


The movie was directed by Douglas Sirk. Google Douglas Sirk and the choice will seem clearer.


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## Bars & Tone (Aug 28, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> So any theories on why the producers would choose that movie to be playing when Vito leaves to go to the gay club?


Well one of the movie's plot lines has black girl passing as white. So if we substitute gender preference for race...


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

HDTivoDesire said:


> The movie was directed by Douglas Sirk. Google Douglas Sirk and the choice will seem clearer.


Well I just read about 6 online biographies of Douglas Sirk and 3 of John Gavin, and I confess that I'm not smart enough that the choice seems clearer yet. There's certainly nothing as immediately understandable as if the actor had been Rock Hudson.

Oh well, maybe Buscemi is just a Sirk fan.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Bars & Tone said:


> Well one of the movie's plot lines has black girl passing as white. So if we substitute gender preference for race...


This is clearly an attenuated link, if a link at all. Much more likely that Buscemi is simply a fan of Sirk or Imitation of Life than that he was trying to draw that parallel.

I guess this was simply a dead-end ... sorry I brought it up at all at this point


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## Graymalkin (Mar 20, 2001)

montag said:


> Are you talking about Christopher?


/slapping forehead.

D'oh! Yes, I meant Christopher. I was stuck on the actor's real-life name. I'll go back and fix that.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

HDTivoDesire said:


> When Tony was in the car being driven by Mr. Muscles the bodyguard, the camera showed a close-up of Tony focusing in on the bodyguard's right bicep. It was concave, as if he had been shot in the bicep and then it healed some time ago.
> 
> During the fight, when the bodyguard gets up off the floor to counter-attack, Tony grabs the right arm as the bodyguard screams in pain "MY ARM!!!!!"
> 
> It seemed pretty obvious to me that Tony knew the bodyguard had a weak right arm and exploited this to easily beat him up.


I'll have to watch for this again on TiVo - if this is right, that's a great catch .... and would explain why Tony thought that he could take the young buck down.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Bananfish said:


> , just like I rolled my eyes when he pleasured the guy in the truck.


I thought he was the recipient in that case.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Mr. Soze said:


> I thought he was the recipient in that case.


From the episode description at HBO.com...

Episode 61
"Although Finn is uncomfortable around the wiseguys, he manages to cope until one morning he shows up for work early and witnesses something he shouldn't: Vito Spatafore performing oral sex on a security guard. "


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

Mr. Soze said:


> I thought he was the recipient in that case.


Ok, I'll say it: He was, sort of. Or was gonna be, until interrupted.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

As for all the points made about this episode.

1. No way that Mr Muscles can lay a finger on Tony if he knows what's good for him. Doesn't matter about a hurt arm, whether Tony's out of shape, or whatever. Wasn't Ralphie pissed that after he killed the stripper Tony (the boss) hit him, saying "I'm a captain, I'm a captain). That's the boss hitting an underling, imagine if some driver punches the boss.

2. I think Vito went to the motel without making a decision. If Sil makes him believe that he knows, then he could possibly kill himself. If not, then there's no real reason to kill himself if he can get to the two guys first. He doesn't seem to be conflicted about being gay, he seems to rather enjoy it. I don't think he'll kill himself unless he's found out, and even if he is, i think he'd probably try to run first.

The thing I thought was kind of weak was the whole showing of everybody's arms before Tony decided to whoop up on muscle boy. Did he really need to scope his men to figure out who would be the best guy to beat up?

-smak-


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

rimler said:


> Ok, I'll say it: He was, sort of. Or was gonna be, until interrupted.


we have no way of knowing if it was over or not. Maybe Vito looked up because it was over.

Why do I care? never mind!


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> I totally agree. I'm not sure if Gandolfini is playing it up, has a deviated setpum, or what, but it's very annoying!!


I would think the breathing could be edited out, or, they would have to be edited in. I sat in on a sound editing session for a TV show once, and they edit in every single sound you hear, from birds chirping, to trains in the background, to lips smacking, sighing, putting a book on a table... everything!. So I would imagine the heavy breathing is edited in.



fmowry said:


> Allegra, isn't that a cold medicine?


"Allegra means 'happy' in Italian"
"What the f does that have to do with cold medicine??"


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Tony saw Vinnie Diesel had an old injury to his right arm when he was driving him in the Sclade.


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## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

smickola said:


> I think there's a clue in the music...when Vito was checking into the motel, they were playing the song "all the chapels bells were ringing.." (not sure of the title). I'm almost certain they played that before in one of the episodes this season...anyone remember?


We thought the same thing, we just heard that song recently. It might have been last season... 
How odd


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

bruinfan said:


> I would think the breathing could be edited out, or, they would have to be edited in. I sat in on a sound editing session for a TV show once, and they edit in every single sound you hear, from birds chirping, to trains in the background, to lips smacking, sighing, putting a book on a table... everything!. So I would imagine the heavy breathing is edited in.


I seem to recall reading that the producers were not happy with Tony's weight and forced him to add a lot of pounds for the role (he was too skinny)...so I think it's clear that the producers want Tony to be fat and to use that...the heavy breathing is surely part of the plan...


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## chs4 (Sep 25, 2002)

> The thing I thought was kind of weak was the whole showing of everybody's arms before Tony decided to whoop up on muscle boy. Did he really need to scope his men to figure out who would be the best guy to beat up?


 Not sure he was scoping out the men as much as coming to the realization that he was potentially the weakest one in the room. This realization leads to the dust-up with "Muscles" in an effort to dispel any thoughts anyone might have about who's in charge.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Did anyone else think Dr Melfi had a gleeful sort of "let's you and him fight" look on her face when she urged Tony to reassert his status as alpha male? It seemed out of line for a therapist, but she's only human. We know she's attracted to him and his power (she had a dream about him once)...


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

FlugPoP said:


> We thought the same thing, we just heard that song recently. It might have been last season...
> How odd


It was the episode this season where the young guy was rowing on the river and Paulie gave him a visit. I, too, was surprised they re-used that song. Maybe they paid a lot to use it and wanted to get their money's worth.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

bdlucas said:


> Did anyone else think Dr Melfi had a gleeful sort of "let's you and him fight" look on her face when she urged Tony to reassert his status as alpha male? It seemed out of line for a therapist, but she's only human. We know she's attracted to him and his power (she had a dream about him once)...


My wife commented on how tight her blouse was and how she was sitting with her breasts pointing to the ceiling...the buttons on her blouse looked about to burst at any moment...


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

"Patent leather? Have you even looked at a copy of GQ in the last few years?"


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## MerlinMacuser (Jan 4, 2004)

G8rMan said:


> It seemed to me like Vito was fishing to see if Sil knew he was outted. Being that Sil made no mention of it, Vito might feel free to off the 2 guys that spotted him before they can do any damage.


If he were just going to kill himself, why bring a big duffle bag? I wonder if his plan is to go into witness protection in Key West or West Hollywood or the Castro district of SF...


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## FlugPoP (Jan 7, 2004)

Anubys said:


> My wife commented on how tight her blouse was and how she was sitting with her breasts pointing to the ceiling...the buttons on her blouse looked about to burst at any moment...


It was about to burst open because she's put on some weight.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Anubys said:


> I seem to recall reading that the producers were not happy with Tony's weight and forced him to add a lot of pounds for the role (he was too skinny)...so I think it's clear that the producers want Tony to be fat and to use that...the heavy breathing is surely part of the plan...


How about this for a farfetched theory: Tony is still in a coma and everything this season since he was shot is just the figment of his imagination. The heavy breathing is the ventilator breathing for him while he's in his coma.

Seems unlikely, but you heard it here first if it's right.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

MerlinMacuser said:


> If he were just going to kill himself, why bring a big duffle bag? I wonder if his plan is to go into witness protection in Key West or West Hollywood or the Castro district of SF...


I watched this again last night, and it had much less of a suicide vibe than I thought when I first watched it. He brought a bag with him (why do that if you're just going to shoot yourself), he didn't write a note, he didn't really look depressed or resolute, and his expressions had an analytical quality that looked like he was thinking about the strategy of what to do. And if he was going to kill himself, wouldn't he treat himself to a really big final meal? I mean the guy's been starving himself for months.

All in all, I think he's holing up for self protection until he can figure out how to deal with the situation. That's consistent with calling Silvio up .... to see if the word was out yet.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

HDTivoDesire said:


> When Tony was in the car being driven by Mr. Muscles the bodyguard, the camera showed a close-up of Tony focusing in on the bodyguard's right bicep. It was concave, as if he had been shot in the bicep and then it healed some time ago.
> 
> During the fight, when the bodyguard gets up off the floor to counter-attack, Tony grabs the right arm as the bodyguard screams in pain "MY ARM!!!!!"
> 
> It seemed pretty obvious to me that Tony knew the bodyguard had a weak right arm and exploited this to easily beat him up.


I watched this again last night to look for this, and it's just not there.

When Tony looks at Penne Arrabiata's arm at the beginning of the episode, there's no indication that it's anything but him checking out the fact that Arrabiata is muscular. I certainly don't recognize the arm as injured in any fashion, and believe me, I paused and slo-mo'ed the scene for a while looking for something I could recognize as in injury. And right after Tony looks at Arrabiata's arm, he says "where do you work out?," and not "what kind of scrape did you get into with your arm?" Throughout the scene, he neither says nor does anything whatsoever that would indicate he thinks there's an injury on the arm.

Plus when Arrabiata tries to get out of the car to fight the guys in the truck that cut them off, Tony grips Arrabiata's upper right arm to stop him without any noticeable flinching or pain or any reaction whatsoever by Arrabiata.

It's a nice and appealing theory, and I certainly wish they *had* put this touch into the episode because it really would have pulled together Tony's attack of Penne for me (the wily lion going after the wounded gazelle). But there's nothing about this idea on HBO's episode guide, and if that's what the producers were going for, they just didn't dot their i's or cross their t's.

If they had wanted to include this, they would have had Tony do a double-take when he looked at Arrabiata's arm, perhaps shown a closeup of what Tony was looking at in particular, had something more recognizable on the arm as an injury, and had Arrabiata wince when Tony grabbed him by the upper arm in the car.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> I watched this again last night, and it had much less of a suicide vibe than I thought when I first watched it. He brought a bag with him (why do that if you're just going to shoot yourself), he didn't write a note, he didn't really look depressed or resolute, and his expressions had an analytical quality that looked like he was thinking about the strategy of what to do. And if he was going to kill himself, wouldn't he treat himself to a really big final meal? I mean the guy's been starving himself for months.
> 
> All in all, I think he's holing up for self protection until he can figure out how to deal with the situation. That's consistent with calling Silvio up .... to see if the word was out yet.


see, I think he was probably going to kill himself...then gave Silvio a call to make sure...once he realized that there was still a chance, that's when the wheels started turning and he started thinking that he can maybe salvage something...


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Anubys said:


> see, I think he was probably going to kill himself...then gave Silvio a call to make sure...once he realized that there was still a chance, that's when the wheels started turning and he started thinking that he can maybe salvage something...


Yeah, I think that's the case. He's already hinted that thoughts of suicide are in his mind from the first episode this season. But the call gave him some wiggle room. I'm really curious to see where this goes (and hopefully it won't just be dropped).


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Maybe Vito's motel room is 'Barrens-adjacent' and he's hooking up with the Russian?


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Personally, I think that the fight was staged. I just don't see Tony beating that guy.

I also think that Carmella agreeing to take Tony back means he is taking him all the way back. She is definitely becoming more and more involved than ever before as his eyes and ears. I'm sure it has somethign to do with a motherly/protection instinc from when he was hurt and in the hospital, but I think she has finally gotten down off her high horse and realized who she is.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Lee L said:


> Personally, I think that the fight was staged. I just don't see Tony beating that guy.
> 
> I also think that Carmella agreeing to take Tony back means he is taking him all the way back. She is definitely becoming more and more involved than ever before as his eyes and ears. I'm sure it has somethign to do with a motherly/protection instinc from when he was hurt and in the hospital, but I think she has finally gotten down off her high horse and realized who she is.


Yeah, I think Carmela has finally jumped into the mob lifestyle with _both _ feet. She admitted as much to Melfi in their one session together. Basically, Carmela's given up being anything other than a mobster's wife. (Unlike last season where she entertained the idea that she could divorce Tony and become someone else, like she sees Meadow doing.) Carmela's die is cast and she knows it consciously now. She's come to terms with her chosen life as a mobster's wife. She's done fighting the moral and self respect issues she fought last season. She's joined Tony's team fully now.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I first thought that Vito was considering suicide, but upon reflection, I think he got out of the house so he wouldn't be a sitting duck. The gun was for protection and perhaps to deal with the two guys who saw him. Obviously he called Sil to see if word had spread yet. Now, whether he kills the guys or just tries to vanish and start over elsewhere remains to be seen.

It would be funny if Vito got a spinoff, living an openly gay life in a new city!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Lee L said:


> Personally, I think that the fight was staged. I just don't see Tony beating that guy.


I'm not sure if I've said this already or not: 99% of a fight is experience, not size and muscles...Tony knew how to fight, the other guy didn't...the kid had no chance...

The guy who plays Vito is out promoting a cook book (insert joke here  ) and I heard him say that the gay angle was his idea back in season 3...he pitched it to the producers...he thought it was a good way to get some screen time and separate himself from the other actors (as just another guy)...

I say it worked!


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Anubys said:


> The guy who plays Vito is out promoting a cook book (insert joke here  )


We was also on Celebrity Fit Club (IIRC) about a year ago, hence the weight loss...


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

How long can Vito actually last? The shelf life for the boss of that particular crew is not too good!


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

I missed it somehow, but whatever happened to Carmella's spec home she and her father/contractor were building?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I'm not sure if I've said this already or not: 99% of a fight is experience, not size and muscles...Tony knew how to fight, the other guy didn't...the kid had no chance...


Yes...but...that's a real fight. This is one that was written into a story for a purpose. Reality at that level usually doesn't apply. It went down the way the writers wanted it to, whether the underlying justification is experience, an injury, or that they just needed Tony to win for the purpose of the story. We tend to give writers more credit than they deserve.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Jon J said:


> I missed it somehow, but whatever happened to Carmella's spec home she and her father/contractor were building?


They haven't addressed that story line since Carmela must have been too busy with Tony's gsw. Last we heard, the building inspector told them to tear it down and start again, this time using lumber specified in the building code. (Douglas Fir, not the cheap utility grade pine that Carmela's father used.)


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

Jon J said:


> I missed it somehow, but whatever happened to Carmella's spec home she and her father/contractor were building?


They're still waiting on the framing subs to show up.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

rimler said:


> They're still waiting on the framing subs to show up.


Or should we say "re-framing" subs.


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

hefe said:


> Yes...but...that's a real fight. This is one that was written into a story for a purpose. Reality at that level usually doesn't apply. It went down the way the writers wanted it to, whether the underlying justification is experience, an injury, or that they just needed Tony to win for the purpose of the story. We tend to give writers more credit than they deserve.


This is regarding the fight in general:

The muscular guy is a big Italian dude from Jersey with a short temper. I'm sure he's been in fights before. Tony is an old, fat, out of shape 50 year old who just got out of major surgery. How many fights do you think a crime boss gets into? He's always got "muscle" around him to take care of things if they get out of control.

Frank


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

oh would you all get over it already? He took the guy by surprise and kicked his ass. It is totally believable. There is no hidden meaning or great strategy on Tony's part. He took a chance to reestablish himself and it worked


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TiVo'Brien said:


> Yeah, I think Carmela has finally jumped into the mob lifestyle with _both _ feet. She admitted as much to Melfi in their one session together. Basically, Carmela's given up being anything other than a mobster's wife. (Unlike last season where she entertained the idea that she could divorce Tony and become someone else, like she sees Meadow doing.) Carmela's die is cast and she knows it consciously now. She's come to terms with her chosen life as a mobster's wife. She's done fighting the moral and self respect issues she fought last season. She's joined Tony's team fully now.


I agree. :up:


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## Bars & Tone (Aug 28, 2004)

Figaro said:


> oh would you all get over it already? He took the guy by surprise and kicked his ass. It is totally believable...


Believable? Come on!
The only reason he was able to kick his ass was because the kid knew that if he fought back he'd end up in much worse shape. There's no way a morbidly obese and post-op Tony wins that fight without the spectre of unpleasant repercussions looming large over the kid if he wins.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Bars & Tone said:


> Believable? Come on!
> The only reason he was able to kick his ass was because the kid knew that if he fought back he'd end up in much worse shape. There's no way a morbidly obese and post-op Tony wins that fight without the spectre of unpleasant repercussions looming large over the kid if he wins.


You obviously haven't seen too many real fights.


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## Bars & Tone (Aug 28, 2004)

Figaro said:


> You obviously haven't seen too many real fights.


If by that you mean between a healthy, robust 20-something and an obese 40-something who can't take his shoes off without passing out, then yeah, you'd be right.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Bars & Tone said:


> Believable? Come on!
> The only reason he was able to kick his ass was because the kid knew that if he fought back he'd end up in much worse shape. There's no way a morbidly obese and post-op Tony wins that fight without the spectre of unpleasant repercussions looming large over the kid if he wins.


I'm still debating if the fight was staged or not, but the kid did fight back. I think it was Pauli who said it....but you could clearly hear somebody say "Don't do it kid" as the kid lunges at Tony.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I, for one, would welcome scenes of Tony and his many girlfriends


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

pmyers said:


> I'm still debating if the fight was staged or not, but the kid did fight back. I think it was Pauli who said it....but you could clearly hear somebody say "Don't do it kid" as the kid lunges at Tony.


That's the key for me too. If he hadn't fought back, it would be easy to say he was just completely taken by surprise, or knew better than to fight the Boss.

In the absence of some other underlying explanation about a previous injury or fight experience, which is certainly not obvious, the fight becomes completely unbelieveable for me. But in the end, that's still ok, as I understand how it serves the story. Fiction is fiction. Anything can happen.

(I swear, before these discussion forums, I never even thought about this stuff...you've all ruined TV watching for me! )


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

pmyers said:


> I'm still debating if the fight was staged or not, but the kid did fight back. I think it was Pauli who said it....but you could clearly hear somebody say "Don't do it kid" as the kid lunges at Tony.


There's just no way the fight was staged. The Sopranos simply doesn't engage in that type of "hide the ball until after-the-fact .... gotcha!" type of surprise. If Tony had set up this fight, they would have let you know that.

The producers went to a lot of trouble to establish that the kid is strong (discussion of his workout regimen and closeups of his guns) and that he's a hot head (an entire scene was devoted to Penne wanting to fight those truck guys who cut Penne and Tony off and telling Tony how his mother says he should count to 10 before getting in a fight, and later Tony nicknames the kid "Penne Arrabiata" because he has "pepper flakes up his ass" - meaning he was a hot head with a temper).

Tony was looking from stoolie to stoolie before he finally settled on picking on Penne - there'd be no reason to do that "window-shopping" if he had already arranged with Penne to beat him up. He picked Penne specifically because he was strong and hotheaded (and therefore would fight back). Beating up Bobby wouldn't have done squat for getting respect and he knew it.

And here's the two passages about Penne from HBO's official Sopranos episode guide:

"The hotheaded - and muscle-bound - Perry Annunziata takes over as Tony's bodyguard and driver."

"Back at Melfi's, Tony complains about people questioning his judgment since he's out of the hospital. "People sense you're weak, they see an opportunity." She suggests he take on the affect of a decisive leader.

Tony sizes up the group at the Pork Store and picks a fight with Perry Annunziata, the most fit - and impressive - person to reassert his authority with. Victorious, he heads to the bathroom to wash up...and vomits from the exertion."


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

IndyTom said:


> I have a feeling that Vito may have decided to "off" the two dudes that saw him instead.


I thought he would follow them outside and kill them immediately. Waiting even 5 minutes means that there's a chance that they told somebody.

Then I thought that maybe they were made guys, and couldn't be touched.

But then I figured that two made guys wouldn't be collecting at a gay bar.

As for the gay bar; did Vito travel back in time to visit a 1985 gay bar? Or was it "1985 night"?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

the bartender in the gay bar was recognizable to me...seemed like too small a part for him (not that he's famous or anything, but not THAT unknown)...so I wonder if there's more to his role than just those 5 seconds...


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## InterMurph (May 22, 2003)

fmowry said:


> Is anyone else disturbed by Finn's appearance? He's got this horseface look about him. Meadow could do much better.


Finn Detrolio, meet Richard Ashcroft:


----------



## Rev (Feb 14, 2002)

I had to mow my yard today (the folks that work for me hate it when I mow my yard.... nothing to do but think about stuff for four and one half hours!)

Bear with me on this line of thought (the wedding episode is what made it all clear to me .....

HBO (and society) don't like to let "bad" guys win.... So how do they end the season and make all the followers of the "family" feel good about them for all of their faults, yet still finish with law and order on top....

T's brush with death has put him in a new frame of mind. He made the comment to Meadow (did she lose some weight since the last season... she is hot) that he wants to have her children (his grandkids) on his lap... it is what he is living for.

So what happens if Christopher get crossed up with the "terrorists" and they hurt/kidnap/kill Meadow? (The mob won't hurt an innocent family member.... has to be the terrorists)

T would go thermonuclear!!!! Bodies would be falling left and right, nothing would stop T from getting Meadow back (or getting even if she is killed) 

And the cops could get T ordering hits and stuff so they can finally arrest him with a good case.... law and order wins but we fans know that T did what any father would do.... and he dosn't care what happens to him as long as he saves/gets even for Meadow....

What do you think?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rev said:


> T's brush with death has put him in a new frame of mind. He made the comment to Meadow...that he wants to have her children...
> 
> What do you think?


I think your idea has as much chance of coming true as the above (edited) statement...  

seriously, I think the season will end with the family continuing to exist...they won't all become heros and they won't all die or get arrested...that would be too unrealistic...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Rev said:


> I had to mow my yard today (the folks that work for me hate it when I mow my yard.... nothing to do but think about stuff for four and one half hours!)
> ...
> What do you think?


I think you can cut the grass, or mow the lawn, but mowing the yard is not an option.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Who was the girl playing AJ's date at the wedding? The girl who doesn't eat fish because of "the toxins". She looked familiar.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

InterMurph said:


> As for the gay bar; did Vito travel back in time to visit a 1985 gay bar? Or was it "1985 night"?


I couldn't tell you. I was never in a gay bar in 1985.


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

As I was watching the fight I thought it might be staged but afterwards I didn't think so. If it was staged and the kid was part of it, sooner or later it would come out and then Tony would lose all respect. It would end up much worse than it is now. Tony would in effect be placing his future in the hands of the kid.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Timbeau said:


> As I was watching the fight I thought it might be staged but afterwards I didn't think so. If it was staged and the kid was part of it, sooner or later it would come out and then Tony would lose all respect. It would end up much worse than it is now. Tony would in effect be placing his future in the hands of the kid.


simple solution: have the kid killed 

I don't agree that it was staged, just wanted to offer a solution to the problem!


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## Timbeau (May 31, 2002)

Anubys said:


> simple solution: have the kid killed
> 
> I don't agree that it was staged, just wanted to offer a solution to the problem!


That seems pretty callous for Tony. Paulie I could see doing it in a second but not Tony. I gotta admit, it would work pretty well though. :up:


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## marksman (Mar 4, 2002)

Figaro said:


> oh would you all get over it already? He took the guy by surprise and kicked his ass. It is totally believable. There is no hidden meaning or great strategy on Tony's part. He took a chance to reestablish himself and it worked


I think the suprise aspect is the key. It is not like he was expecting anyone in that situation to start beating on him and he was not ready.

In my opinion, SUPRISE is 99% of the battle, as opposed to experience. 

In most street fights if you get the first solid blow in you are going to win. In a situation where he had no reason to have his guard up, it would be fairly trivial to take fair advantage of the situation. Even with Tony getting upset it is unlikely he expected what was coming.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

marksman said:


> In my opinion, SUPRISE is 99% of the battle, as opposed to experience.


Winning a fight is 90% surprise, and the other half is 90% experience. [/Yogi]


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And sheer meanness play a large role. Tony has it in abundance; I suspect Mr. Muscles, for all his hissy fits, is a ***** cat in comparison.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And sheer meanness play a large role. Tony has it in abundance; I suspect Mr. Muscles, for all his hissy fits, is a ***** cat in comparison.


I really don't think Tony would have hired Penne as his personal bodyguard if he thought Penne was a ***** cat.

And Tony, while certainly mean, is not at the head of the class - IMHO, Phil Leotardo is meaner, Paulie is meaner, Uncle Ju is meaner, Livia was meaner, Ralphie was meaner. (Of course, if you got the Ralphie Treatment on a regular basis from Janice, you'd probably be pretty mean too!)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Bananfish said:


> I really don't think Tony would have hired Penne as his personal bodyguard if he thought Penne was a ***** cat.
> 
> And Tony, while certainly mean, is not at the head of the class - IMHO, Phil Leotardo is meaner, Paulie is meaner, Uncle Ju is meaner, Livia was meaner, Ralphie was meaner. (Of course, if you got the Ralphie Treatment on a regular basis from Janice, you'd probably be pretty mean too!)


So was Richie Aprile.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Bananfish said:


> I really don't think Tony would have hired Penne as his personal bodyguard if he thought Penne was a ***** cat.


Tony hired Mr. Muscles to keep his wife happy. And she doesn't know any better. She took one look at his, well, muscles, and was happy.

And I think Tony IS at the head of the class in meanness. I don't think any of the people you named are a match for him. I think Vic Mackey would wet himself if he had to face up to Tony.


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## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think Vic Mackey would wet himself if he had to face up to Tony.


That's crazy talk!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Mr. Soze said:


> That's crazy talk!


Are you talkin' to ME?!?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Are you talkin' to ME?!?


"No that's Crazy Talk, my brother. We are all a little worried about him."


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## Weezoh (May 9, 2002)

smickola said:


> I think there's a clue in the music...when Vito was checking into the motel, they were playing the song "all the chapels bells were ringing.." (not sure of the title). I'm almost certain they played that before in one of the episodes this season...anyone remember?


Yeah, the last episode, Fleshy Part of the Thigh

IIRC

The song speaks of 3 bells
#1 birth Fleshy part of the Thigh is a lot about Paulie's birth irregularities
#2 wedding This episode centered around allegra's wedding
#3 death TBA stay tuned


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think Vic Mackey would wet himself if he had to face up to Tony.


Jack Bauer could take them both on with one hand tied behind his back.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Rev - three little words.....


NOT A CHANCE!


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## Spire (Jun 6, 2001)

busyba said:


> Jack Bauer could take them both on with one hand tied behind his back.


Nina Myers would eat them all for breakfast.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Spire said:


> Nina Myers would eat them all for breakfast.


But only if the German Group told her to.....


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

busyba said:


> But only if the German Group told her to.....


She'd have to rise from the grave to do it.

Then again, The German Group is THAT powerful!


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just look what they did with David Hasselhoff!


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## Spire (Jun 6, 2001)

Rob and busyba: I think that's too big a spoiler for those who haven't seen _24_ yet. Spoiler tags?


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Well for spoilers of this episode (regarding the fight) based on the one that just aired:



Spoiler



Well, the fight was not staged. We are supposed to beleive that Tony beat the guy fair and square (or at least until the guy relized that continuing to fight would mean his death). I sure thought it would have been staged.


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## GOTTI2K01 (May 9, 2006)

deli99 said:


> Really? I thought it was a great episode. Tony reasserting his leadership, the Vito storyline getting some closure, and some good lines. My two favorites:
> 
> Ginny Sac: "I'm only 8 pounds away from my goal"
> AJ's date: (while smoking) "I don't eat fish; the toxins"


YEAH AJ'S DATE WAS HOT ! DOES ANYONE KNOW HER REAL NAME? ITS NOT IN THE CREDITS AFTER THE WEDDING EPISODE! SHE LOOKS LIKE JENNIFER COOLIDGE !
STIFFLERS MOM FROM AMERICAN PIE ! ANYONE KNOW WHO SHE IS ?


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