# 9.3 Bugs



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

We have been running 9.3 for a couple of days now and I must say that it is MUCH better than 9.1. Navigation of remote machines is blazing fast. 


However just found a couple of problems.
================================
1. This is a holdover from 9.1 Show Stopper - requires reboot.

I attempted to transfer a program from another machine. Nothing was happening at the time on the local machine - no transfers in progress, it wasn't recording.

When I told it to start transferring instead of doing so it gave me a message saying it would begin transferring when the current transfer completed. There was no current transfer going on. A check of the todo list showed the transfer as pending. It still hadn't begun after five minutes. I rebooted the local machine and the transfer started.
================================

2. This is a new one - not a show stopper but a PITA. 

Browsed into a remote machine and selected one of the programs for transfer. The transfer started and the menu changed to the usual "Start Playing"/"Continue browsing the other machine" options. 

Selected Continue browsing because I wanted to queue a second program from the same machine for transfer. The screen changed to the list of programs. So far so good.

Selected another program 

The screen changed to show the data on the selected program but instead of giving me the option to transfer it the options were;
"Stop transferring"/"Don't do anything" !

Selected "Don't do anything" and was taken back to the list of programs. Again I selected the program that I wanted to queue. Again the screen changed to show the data on the selected program but this time it displayed the (correct) options to "Transfer this recording"/"Don't do anything"

Selected Transfer and the program was then queued for transfer.

I tried the process again this time selecting the "Stop transferring" option when it was presented. It said it was stopping the transferring of the displayed program (which wasn't transferring or even queued for transfer yet) then gave me the option to transfer it.

The bug is repeatable on all 3 of my SD-H400 machines. Could somebody else please confirm it?


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## aine (Dec 23, 2003)

RoyK said:


> 1. This is a holdover from 9.1 Show Stopper - requires reboot.
> 
> I attempted to transfer a program from another machine. Nothing was happening at the time on the local machine - no transfers in progress, it wasn't recording.
> 
> When I told it to start transferring instead of doing so it gave me a message saying it would begin transferring when the current transfer completed. There was no current transfer going on. A check of the todo list showed the transfer as pending. It still hadn't begun after five minutes. I rebooted the local machine and the transfer started.


Bummer... this is by far the most annoying issue with my two 9.1 S2s. I used to mock to my CableCo DVR-owning friends that have to reboot their boxes every few days. But now *I* have to reboot my S2 every few days, when the transferring from another TiVo gets stuck. And this happens a lot.

Just as Roy described -- it says the transfer is pending, in Todo list, but it never starts until you reboot.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Browsed into a remote machine and selected one of the programs for transfer. The transfer started and the menu changed to the usual "Start Playing"/"Continue browsing the other machine" options.
> 
> Selected Continue browsing because I wanted to queue a second program from the same machine for transfer. The screen changed to the list of programs. So far so good.
> 
> ...


Haven't checked in 9.3 yet, but this certainly happened in 9.2 on my Series 3. Sounds like it got introduced in 9.2 and didn't get fixed for 9.3...


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## dylanemcgregor (Jan 31, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Haven't checked in 9.3 yet, but this certainly happened in 9.2 on my Series 3. Sounds like it got introduced in 9.2 and didn't get fixed for 9.3...


I've seen this message when transferring programs from PC --> TiVo since 9.1 I believe, but I find that going to NP list the item has indeed started to transfer.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

dylanemcgregor said:


> I've seen this message when transferring programs from PC --> TiVo since 9.1 I believe, but I find that going to NP list the item has indeed started to transfer.


The problem is with MRV, not PC--> Tivo although it may appear there also -- I never transfer from my PC to my TiVo so I don't know.

The menu option to cancel transfer appears when a second program is selected from the NPL on the remote machine. The machine has not yet been instructed to transfer the program. It is not being transferred yet nor is it in the todo list yet the option to cancel the transfer of the second program is in the menu instead of the option to transfer it.

I'd think after six months they'd get the GUI right ......


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## KRKeegan (Jul 20, 2004)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Haven't checked in 9.3 yet, but this certainly happened in 9.2 on my Series 3. Sounds like it got introduced in 9.2 and didn't get fixed for 9.3...


Yup I have seen this on my 9.2 TiVoHD too.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I wouldn't classify the exceedingly small fonts in the todo list for 9.3 as a bug but it certainly is a poor decision from the point of view of the over 55 set or anyone else with less than perfect vision.....

I hope that the font can be made larger again in the next revision....

If there's a need to gain some space the huge icons on the left of the screen could be made much smaller without impacting anything.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Unbox downloads still show up in two places in the NPL - inside the Unbox folder and in the main list. Inconsistent use of the folder paradigm - tacky.


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## KRKeegan (Jul 20, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Unbox downloads still show up in two places in the NPL - inside the Unbox folder and in the main list. Inconsistent use of the folder paradigm - tacky.


HD shows are like that too, as is tivo suggestions.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Unbox downloads still show up in two places in the NPL - inside the Unbox folder and in the main list. Inconsistent use of the folder paradigm - tacky.


Suggestions do the same if you have other recordings of them in your NPL. Not as inconsistent as you might think. They're Smart Folders, not Directories.


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

Not really a bug, but a bummer (that was fixed in 9.1). When I browse by time, and go to channels... Favorite Channels used to "stick". Now it's always "All Channels" (again).
I agree about the font in the todo list being too small.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

#1 is a PITA but not what I'd call a "Show Stopper" since I can control when to reboot (if it spontaneously rebooted I'd elevate it to Show Stopper status). I've seen it happen from time to time with 9.1 on my S2s but I haven't had 9.3 on them long enough to see it yet.

I think I understand your #2 but I haven't seen it happen (9.1 was pretty squirrely during transfers so I learned not to try anything confusing after starting a transfer).


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

pdhenry said:


> #1 is a PITA but not what I'd call a "Show Stopper" since I can control when to reboot (if it spontaneously rebooted I'd elevate it to Show Stopper status). I've seen it happen from time to time with 9.1 on my S2s but I haven't had 9.3 on them long enough to see it yet.
> 
> I think I understand your #2 but I haven't seen it happen (9.1 was pretty squirrely during transfers so I learned not to try anything confusing after starting a transfer).


Its a show stopper if you want to watch the program that is supposed to be transferred. Usually that's why one initiates the transfer in the first place. At least that's why I do.

Edit: - On second thought maybe you're right. Instead of a show stopper its a show non-starter

Still it sucks.


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## logicman1 (Jan 10, 2008)

RoyK - not trying to be snide but have you ever considered becoming a TiVo beta tester? Seems to me you get a lot more traction finding these problems before the software gets released.


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

I recall reading about a bug where some phone line users would have the internal clock drift a significant amount each day before being reset by the daily call home. Has anyone found that problem to be fixed by 9.3 ? It doesnt affect me, I assume because I use the broadband connection, but my friend is constantly compaining about having the end of a program cut off and the need to pad shows to prevent it. I record the same programs using the same cable system and have no such problems.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Haven't checked in 9.3 yet, but this certainly happened in 9.2 on my Series 3. Sounds like it got introduced in 9.2 and didn't get fixed for 9.3...


Happened on my 9.2 Series 3 too. Have not verified that it's the same in 9.3 yet, but sounds likely if RoyK mentions it.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

logicman1 said:


> RoyK - not trying to be snide but have you ever considered becoming a TiVo beta tester? Seems to me you get a lot more traction finding these problems before the software gets released.


Ha! You know, I was going to post exactly the same comment! 

Roy, it sounds like you utilize pretty much all the features TiVo is capable of on a regular basis. Certainly way more than the average TiVo user. You would be an ideal candidate for a TiVo Beta tester, in my opinion.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

RoyK said:


> I wouldn't classify the exceedingly small fonts in the todo list for 9.3 as a bug but it certainly is a poor decision from the point of view of the over 55 set or anyone else with less than perfect vision.....
> 
> I hope that the font can be made larger again in the next revision....


I don't have 9.3, but I for one am really glad to hear that they reduced the font size.

I suppose the best option would be to make it configurable...


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TrueTurbo said:


> Ha! You know, I was going to post exactly the same comment!
> 
> Roy, it sounds like you utilize pretty much all the features TiVo is capable of on a regular basis. Certainly way more than the average TiVo user. You would be an ideal candidate for a TiVo Beta tester, in my opinion.


No, I don't use most of the features - just regular TV recording and playback and heavy MRV. My wife in fact caught the problem with the second bug in the first post of this thread and brought it to my attention. She was merely setting up a couple of transferred programs to watch while she did her morning dialysis. She's as non technical as they come.

I don't use the internet stuff except for an occasional Unbox download, don't play music, don't view my pictures, etc.

No way! We use our equipment too much for that. Given my admitted low tolerance for bugs and the number that exist in released TiVo software there is no way I'd put up with the Beta.

My wife, by the way, shares my low tolerance. She'd (perhaps literally) would kill me if I loaded beta on "her" boxes.

I do Beta test some other software though....

Seriously though, most of the bugs I find are with things that people commonly do. I find it incredible that -- especially a bug fix -- release is made with most of them.


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## logicman1 (Jan 10, 2008)

RoyK said:


> No way! ...


Maybe beta testers get a free box and sub for being a tester.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> I don't have 9.3, but I for one am really glad to hear that they reduced the font size.


I haven't heard anyone say there is more text on the screen with the smaller font. Somebody said it is still just 8 lines of text. Is there more information per line?


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## logicman1 (Jan 10, 2008)

There's a discussion going on in What's with the tiny font in To Do List?

Edit: Fixed bad link


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

logicman1's link is bad - this is the correct link to the tiny font discussion:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=389962

No, not more information as far as I can see - the font is just quite a bit smaller


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

Are they still working through the priority list for 9.3? I signed up last week, but haven't seen anything yet, even after forcing the connection to the mother ship today.


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Just when I thought 9.3 was good the "Blue Screen" has returned on my 240 single tuner using the serial connector. TivoPony is there any fix for this?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

derspiess said:


> Are they still working through the priority list for 9.3? I signed up last week, but haven't seen anything yet, even after forcing the connection to the mother ship today.


I got mine last night after I requested it yesterday. (It would've come today, but I forced the connection.) About nine hours, although that's just when I checked; it might've been available sooner.



Amnesia said:


> I don't have 9.3, but I for one am really glad to hear that they reduced the font size.


They reduced it too much, and the number of lines didn't change, because that's set by the icons. There is a little more info left to right, though.


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## GAViewer (Oct 18, 2007)

I ran across a strange bug. I noticed a show in one of my season passes wasn't scheduled to record. So I looked at the todo list to see what was to be recorded on that day and time. I noticed only one show was being recorded and since I have a dual tuner, I saw no reason why the other show wasn't going to be recorded. So I looked at the "recording history" to see why. It said the Tivo can only record 1 show using the cable box and therefore it could not record the second show. That didn't make sense because both the show that is scheduled to record and the one that wasn't were both on the regular cable channels. So I went to the season pass list and moved one pass to cause the TIVO to redo the todo list. This had no effect, the TIVO still showed only recording one show in the time slot. So I deleted the Season pass for the show it didn't want to record and recreated the season pass moved it back to it original spot in the Season pass list and everything was ok, the todo list shows both shows will be recorded. I guess I'll have to look at every season pass to make sure the shows are in the todo list.


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> I got mine last night after I requested it yesterday. (It would've come today, but I forced the connection.) About nine hours, although that's just when I checked; it might've been available sooner.


Thanks. I think I'll have another go at putting my service # on the list.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

timstack8969 said:


> Just when I thought 9.3 was good the "Blue Screen" has returned on my 240 single tuner using the serial connector. TivoPony is there any fix for this?


You might PM him with your TSN.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

timstack8969 said:


> Just when I thought 9.3 was good the "Blue Screen" has returned on my 240 single tuner using the serial connector. TivoPony is there any fix for this?


Were you doing anything special at the time (MRV, ToGo, Adding WL, etc) or did it just happen? You might also want to post in this thread.


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## jayfest (Mar 25, 2003)

greg_burns said:


> I haven't heard anyone say there is more text on the screen with the smaller font. Somebody said it is still just 8 lines of text. Is there more information per line?


When the font size on the TDL was increased in a previous release, I felt it became hard to read. The channel names and some of the other info were being truncated and columns were being squashed together. And, I believe, people complained about it in this forum. This is no longer the case, although I can certainly see where some people would find the lettering too small. Obviously, there are always going to be people who complain about it, unless as Amnesia suggested above, they make the font size configurable from the Settings.


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## derspiess (Jul 10, 2007)

wmcbrine said:


> I got mine last night after I requested it yesterday. (It would've come today, but I forced the connection.) About nine hours, although that's just when I checked; it might've been available sooner.


I put my number on the list again yesterday, and got the update overnight at some point. I have a feeling I had originally put my TivoHD's service # on the list last week, which would explain things 

Of course, I'm at work, so the only way to get to my S2DT at home is thru my Slingbox (on my phone, at that!), so I gotta wait until tonight to test drive the shiny new firmware


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## bobsoron (Jan 24, 2002)

I received 9.3 unrequested overnight.

The list of 9.1 bugs I posted is at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5596284#post5596284 .

Of those, the g*ddamned Guide button _still doesn't work._ That's just outright idiotic -- as I say in the linked post, they must have had a meeting, literally, at which they decided, "You know that button that says 'Guide' on the S1 remote? Why don't we disable it?"

I'm in awe of the beauty of this level of idiocy. "Let's spend coding time disabling one button on the old remote. Naw, I know it says Guide, but why let those people see it?" And, you know, the behavior _was_ changed. With 9.1, pressing the S1 remote's Guide button gave you one of those "invalid command" thuds. Now it just happily gives you a "I know you told me to do something but I'm not going to do it" chirp, the one that's used for the tickmark button.

And they still think Wishlists don't need to be cached when you show all matching programs, enter a program details screen, and return to the show all matching programs screen. It also continues to not display the number of matching programs found, but the caching here is the Comp Sci 101 that Tivo's team is lacking.

The other times the Tivo lagged do seem to be faster. The gradients are still terrible and hard to read. They did fix the Clear bug in the Search by Title screen. Yay.

So seriously, last October was the last time my Tivo actually offered two specific major usability features that were disabled with 9.1. Do any third-party vendors offer drives with older system software images? Ideally, with that bootpage hack so I can stop the unit from upgrading? PMs are welcome. I really wanted Elgato's EyeTV 250 Plus to replace my S2, but TitanTV's program guide service is sadly far too unreliable, and a Tivo that won't display the Guide is like having Grandma sitting in my living room staring at me after her lobotomy.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

bobsoron said:


> Of those, the g*ddamned Guide button _still doesn't work._ That's just outright idiotic -- as I say in the linked post, they must have had a meeting, literally, at which they decided, "You know that button that says 'Guide' on the S1 remote? Why don't we disable it?"


Press the TiVo button to go to TiVo Central, don't use arrow keys. Now press the guide button.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

The new 9.3 doesn't fix the vertical jittering of Amazon.com downloads on my S2 Series Model 140.

Described further here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=385514
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5512053#post5512053

Amazon Video tested (Free)
"Human Giant: Duffel bag of Death" 
-------------------------------------
FYI: As before..it's not all Amazon videos. The free "BattleStar Galactica Season ('04) Downloads are fine. Which makes me think it is a Letterbox content issue (IE BSG isn't letterbox while Human Giant is) that is causing some kind of interlacing issue.

Doh well..if it's not fixed by now I figure Tivo doesn't care about it.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

bobsoron said:


> Of those, the g*ddamned Guide button _still doesn't work._ That's just outright idiotic -- as I say in the linked post, they must have had a meeting, literally, at which they decided, "You know that button that says 'Guide' on the S1 remote? Why don't we disable it?"
> I'm in awe of the beauty of this level of idiocy. "Let's spend coding time disabling one button on the old remote. Naw, I know it says Guide, but why let those people see it?" And, you know, the behavior _was_ changed. With 9.1, pressing the S1 remote's Guide button gave you one of those "invalid command" thuds. Now it just happily gives you a "I know you told me to do something but I'm not going to do it" chirp, the one that's used for the tickmark button.


Wow. Calm down and take CuriousMark's advice. the guide button was NOT disabled.


> Do any third-party vendors offer drives with older system software images? Ideally, with that bootpage hack so I can stop the unit from upgrading? PMs are welcome.


Want a tivo with no guide data that reboots EVERY night at 2am? Go ahead and get a drive with older software.


> I really wanted Elgato's EyeTV 250 Plus to replace my S2, but TitanTV's program guide service is sadly far too unreliable, and a Tivo that won't display the Guide is like having Grandma sitting in my living room staring at me after her lobotomy.


Go ahead and get one.


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

I can't remember this happening before the 9.3 update... When I go to a folder, I am now taken to the top of the list (the newest show in a series).

Does _my_ memory need an update, or did TiVo used to start with the "oldest" show in a group?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TiVo Steve said:


> I can't remember this happening before the 9.3 update... When I go to a folder, I am now taken to the top of the list (the newest show in a series).
> 
> Does _my_ memory need an update, or did TiVo used to start with the "oldest" show in a group?


It hasn't changed as far as I can see.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> The new 9.3 doesn't fix the vertical jittering of Amazon.com downloads on my S2 Series Model 140.
> 
> Described further here:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=385514
> ...


Only TiVo and Amazon's engineers can tell us for sure, but I am of the opinion that this is an encoding problem on Amazon's part, and that the improperly encoded files would need to be replaced on Amazon's servers for this to be 'fixed'. Nonetheless, I wish they'd correct the problem, wherever it stems from. I hate taking the gamble whenever I purchase something that it may have the jitters.


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

bobsoron said:


> ... the g*ddamned Guide button _still doesn't work._ ... on the S1 remote... I'm in awe of the beauty of this level of idiocy.... to replace my S2,


Uh, the S1 remote is for the S1. 9.3 isn't available, and won't run on , the S1. The S2 remote is for the S2. When did TiVo say the S1 remote would work at all with the S2?

I, too, am similarly in awe, but not in relation to TiVo.


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

gonzotek said:


> Only TiVo and Amazon's engineers can tell us for sure, but I am of the opinion that this is an encoding problem on Amazon's part, and that the improperly encoded files would need to be replaced on Amazon's servers for this to be 'fixed'. Nonetheless, I wish they'd correct the problem, wherever it stems from. I hate taking the gamble whenever I purchase something that it may have the jitters.


I did indicate a FREE amazon video that other people could test and validate whether it is a model specific issue....haven't had any takers yet.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> I did indicate a FREE amazon video that other people could test and validate whether it is a model specific issue....haven't had any takers yet.


Watching it now and not noticing anything with my S3. Rented half dozen unbox videos and have not ran into any jitters yet.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

TiVo Steve said:


> I can't remember this happening before the 9.3 update... When I go to a folder, I am now taken to the top of the list (the newest show in a series).


I had that in 9.2. I was hoping it would be fixed in 9.3. Guess not. Not a big deal.


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## scottbr (Apr 28, 2005)

Here's a new quirk/bug that showed up with the 9.3 update:

Two S2 boxes, want to transfer a couple of episodes from box 1 to box 2.
* On box 2, navigate to box 1's NPL, and select the first episode to transfer
* Start transferring
* Back to the episode list, and select the second episode to transfer
* Tivo shows the show details for second episode, but asks if I want to stop transferring or "don't do anything"
* Back to the episode list, and select the second episode again
* NOW, it asks if I want to transfer it

It definitely did not work this way before 9.3. Is it something I can live with? Sure - I know what to expect. Besides, the whole box-to-box transfer routine is so much faster now (9.1 really, really slowed it all down), that I don't even mind a quirk here or there.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

See first post in this thread. You can go ahead and click stop transferring if you want. It will tell you its stopping the transfer that was never started, then go ahead and let you start the transfer.


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## scottbr (Apr 28, 2005)

RoyK said:


> See first post in this thread. You can go ahead and click stop transferring if you want. It will tell you its stopping the transfer that was never started, then go ahead and let you start the transfer.


<smacking forehead>Yeah, if I'd read it more carefully, I would have seen that.

6 of one, half-dozen of the other. Either way, I can get it working. Thankfully, it's not going to contribute to (what we hope won't have to be) your "xxx weeks with no update" counter... Which, BTW, was dead-on and appreciated.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

This one really has no impact but it's curious.

I just started a transfer from my SD-H400 in the den, looked at the To Do List and it says:


```
(Blue Ball)    Transfer from                                         Judge Mathis
```
Queued another transfer and it says:


```
(Blue Ball)    Transfer from                                         Judge Mathis
               Transfer from Den                                     Chefography
```
In other words the first transfer doesn't say where its transferring from.

If I highlight and select the first one (Judge Mathis) it says "From DVR" (instead of "From Den DVR")


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Stu_Bee said:


> I did indicate a FREE amazon video that other people could test and validate whether it is a model specific issue....haven't had any takers yet.


Jitter happens on my 240 and 649. It does not happen on my TiVoHD. As mentioned, it only happens with some, not all, Unbox downloads. I've also seen it on some of the Music Choice videos.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

KRKeegan said:


> HD shows are like that too, as is tivo suggestions.


No, suggestions don't, but HD programs do and definitely should. I would consider it a bug if they did not. The suggestions are another matter. I'm somewhat ambivalent about the fact suggestions don't show up in the main list, but all in all, I thnk I marginally prefer it the way it is. I do wish there were an SD folder, however, and I wish the folders were under user control


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

mrmike said:


> Suggestions do the same if you have other recordings of them in your NPL. Not as inconsistent as you might think. They're Smart Folders, not Directories.


Under Linux, a file can reside in as many directories as one wishes. That Windows is unable to support this simple and powerful functionality is just one more in the long list of areas where Windows is broken. Fortunately, the TiVo runs Linux.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> No, suggestions don't, but HD programs do and definitely should. I would consider it a bug if they did not. The suggestions are another matter. I'm somewhat ambivalent about the fact suggestions don't show up in the main list, but all in all, I thnk I marginally prefer it the way it is. I do wish there were an SD folder, however, and I wish the folders were under user control


With folders turned on, a suggestion will appear in another folder, assuming you have recorded at least one non-suggestion of that program name as well. For example, I requested an episode of Friends and the TiVo also recorded a different episode as a suggestion. Both episodes would be in the Friends folder, and the suggestion would be in the Suggestions folder. Another way to show this is to take a series that has several suggested episodes already recorded and KUID one of those suggestions. The NPL will have a new group with the Series name and one KUID and however many of the suggested episodes that were also recorded in it.


lrhorer said:


> Under Linux, a file can reside in as many directories as one wishes. That Windows is unable to support this simple and powerful functionality is just one more in the long list of areas where Windows is broken. Fortunately, the TiVo runs Linux.


I'm an Ubuntu user who enjoys working in Linux. However, Windows has supported hard links for many years with the NTFS filesystem, and Vista finally supports symbolic links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS
http://wesnerm.blogs.com/net_undocumented/2006/10/symbolic_links_.html

All of that is moot however, as the filesystem in the TiVo doesn't really store the video/audio content as files per se, but as data streams and those hard, soft, and symbolic links do not factor into the representation of the folders in the NPL. A user looking at the NPL isn't looking at a representation of the directory structure on the disk. The NPL UI is merely a way that a human can use a remote to find access to their desired video programs. Any application, on any OS, can represent its data in multiple views, for the convenience of the user. Take, for example, the Thunderbird mail client, which allows saving a search as a folder. It's available on Linux, Mac, and Windows. The same message can appear in many 'folders', since they aren't really folders at all.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

lrhorer said:


> Under Linux, a file can reside in as many directories as one wishes. That Windows is unable to support this simple and powerful functionality is just one more in the long list of areas where Windows is broken. Fortunately, the TiVo runs Linux.


Vista does have Virtual Folders now. Or at least Virtual Folder saved searches. I haven't played with it much.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> Under Linux, a file can reside in as many directories as one wishes. That Windows is unable to support this simple and powerful functionality is just one more in the long list of areas where Windows is broken. Fortunately, the TiVo runs Linux.


Actually this can be done in Windows XP using NTFS junction points, but require downloading tools to use them. Vista has built in symbolic links.

All of this is moot though since I'm fairly certain that the folders in the TiVo's now playing list are in no way related to actual directories in the file system.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> Under Linux, a file can reside in as many directories as one wishes. That Windows is unable to support this simple and powerful functionality is just one more in the long list of areas where Windows is broken. Fortunately, the TiVo runs Linux.


The NTFS file system has always supported hard links, but the Windows GUI doesn't expose them. But the APIs are there and they work. If you have a Posix toolkit such as MKS on your Windows system, then the "ln" command there works (for hard links). But until Vista, the file system itself didn't support symbolic links. All you had were those funny .lnk files that the GUI presents as "shortcuts".


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

OK I understand the concept of virtual folders but it still makes no sense to me to have the same program in two places on the already limited TiVo display. Its just cluttering things up. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!


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## gregly (Jun 22, 2006)

Here's something I noticed -- might be a 9.3 bug, might just be a weird quirk: My S3 still has 9.2a, but the S2 in the bedroom has 9.3. When checking remote recordings on the S3 from the S2, an analog SD partial recording was incorrectly marked with a red NO sign and the "This recording is in HD and not supported by this DVR" message. It was only 0:01 long when I checked the S3 -- must have been aborted by somebody else here in the house for some reason -- but definitely from a standard analog channel.

Anyways, just thought I should throw that out here, just in case anybody else had seen that behavior.


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

Just got 9.3 last night. The speed problem seems to be fixed when Browsing by Time. I can once again find new programs on my TiVo. Also, the problem where deleting a show directly from the To Do list (as opposed to entering the write-up and deleting it) sends you back to the top of the list is fixed.

I also wonder if the lack of update notification is a bug. This is the standard "Spring" update and has obvious UI changes (the Find Programs menu being renamed, moved, and totally re-ordered is probably the biggest change followed by the font change and inclusion of non-firing Wishlists in the To Do list). Not having that update notification doesn't seem right.


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

DaveLessnau said:


> I also wonder if the lack of update notification is a bug.


Here is what Pony had to say about it...



TiVoPony said:


> We may message people regarding this once the rollout is complete. Still in discussion, we'll see.
> 
> Remember, we can send messages, including PTCM's, from the service.
> 
> Pony


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

I'm not certain if this was introduced with 9.3 or if it's a holdover from 9.1: in the Recently Deleted folder, left-arrowing out of the description of a recently deleted program back to the list of recent deletes puts the list back at the top page with the highlight at the position it was before (i.e., if I'm on page m of the list looking at the nth entry down, backing out of the program description returns to page 1 of the list with the highlight at the nth entry down). I'm pretty sure this behavior was just for DELETING a program from that folder before (of course, I could be wrong). Now, it happens when VIEWING a program listing in that folder.

greg_burns: thanks for that TiVoPony quote.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I've had that problem at least since 9.2, if not as far back as 9.1.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

gonzotek said:


> With folders turned on, a suggestion will appear in another folder, assuming you have recorded at least one non-suggestion of that program name as well.


That's true. Is it this to which the OP was referring? If so, I find it more pleasing than not. The only rather odd thing to the user is that one may be deleting one program after another, and suddenly the group disappears even though there are several suggestions still in the group. I found this disconcerting the first couple of times it happened, until I realized what was going on. Now I consider it to be no big deal.



gonzotek said:


> However, Windows has supported hard links for many years with the NTFS filesystem, and Vista finally supports symbolic links.


Huh! One learns something every day. Of course supporting hard links under FAT could be problematical, but I've often wondered why Windows didn't support hard links under NTFS. Thanks for the reference!



gonzotek said:


> All of that is moot however, as the filesystem in the TiVo doesn't really store the video/audio content as files per se, but as data streams and those hard, soft, and symbolic links do not factor into the representation of the folders in the NPL.


I took another look at the TiVo file system, and you are correct. It doesn't employ any directory structure for the NPL.



gonzotek said:


> A user looking at the NPL isn't looking at a representation of the directory structure on the disk.


You're right, and I'm a bit surprised.



gonzotek said:


> The NPL UI is merely a way that a human can use a remote to find access to their desired video programs. Any application, on any OS, can represent its data in multiple views, for the convenience of the user.


Well, yes, but the same is true of the OS directory structure itself. Of course FAT was designed to closely mimic the way the directory structure was displayed by the CLI (command.com), but creating virtual repositories for various data structures, including but not limited to files, is certainly not difficult, and can be accomplished under any UI. Nonetheless, I thnk if I were developing the TiVo UI, I would have made use of the built-in directory structure capabilities of Linux to manage the program streams, whether they were files or not. (I knew the ty streams weren't files, but I didn't know the folders weren't directories. OTOH, I had never bothered to look.)


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

RoyK said:


> OK I understand the concept of virtual folders but it still makes no sense to me to have the same program in two places on the already limited TiVo display. Its just cluttering things up. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!


Well, I wasn't talking about virtual folders, but rather hard links. Nonetheless, while you are entitled to your preferences, I definitely vote for having programs under multiple groups. First of all, how does it clutter up anything? The number of groups isn't increased, and the programs don't show up in any particular group unless they are properly a member of that group.

Let's assume I have a season pass to Law and Order on NBC. Let's also assume my preferences cause Law and Order to be recorded suggestions. This being the case, when TNT shows episodes of Law and Order, it's going to also be in HD. Please explain to me why on Earth those episodes should not show up under the Law and Order group (along with the other L&O episodes), the HD Recordings group, and the Suggestions group. They are L&O episodes, they are HD, and they are recordings. If I want to watch (or manage) L&O recordings, then the L&O group is the place to be. If I want to watch HD content without even considering HD content, then it should be one of my choices there, whether its in other folders or not. The only one I could see possibly eliminating is the duplicate Suggestions entry. I could buy the notion of removing the program from the list of Suggestions if it is included under some Season Pass or KUID folder, but only marginally.

Indeed, a very common request in TiVo Suggestion Avenue is user specified folder support, and if that comes about, I would want Silverado to show up under my ***** folder, my Westerns folder, my 1980s folder, my Scott Glenn folder, my Danny Glover folder, etc.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I have no problem with that. My complaint was when I download from Unbox I get a Unbox folder with the show in it and the show also bare on the NPL. Two downloads, two in the Unbox folder and two separately listed on the NPL etc. Would be like all your Law & Orders being in the folders you mentioned and all of them separately listed on the NPL too.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I have no problem with that. My complaint was when I download from Unbox I get a Unbox folder with the show in it and the show also bare on the NPL. Two downloads, two in the Unbox folder and two separately listed on the NPL etc. Would be like all your Law & Orders being in the folders you mentioned and all of them separately listed on the NPL too.


Oh, I see. I don't have any Unbox downloads on my TiVos, so I haven't seen this behavior. To my mind, Unbox downloads are far too expensive and far too poor in quality for me to bother with them.

In that case, I agree with you. Inclusion in any group other than HD Programs should automatically remove the title from the main NPL listing.


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## bobsoron (Jan 24, 2002)

CuriousMark said:


> Press the TiVo button to go to TiVo Central, don't use arrow keys. Now press the guide button.


I'm boggled (toward Tivo) but appreciative (to you). It's still broken compared to the pre-9.1 days, but I suppose that if it's consistent behavior, it's an improvement over the 9.1 behavior. Thanks.



m.s said:


> Uh, the S1 remote is for the S1. 9.3 isn't available, and won't run on , the S1. The S2 remote is for the S2. When did TiVo say the S1 remote would work at all with the S2?
> 
> I, too, am similarly in awe, but not in relation to TiVo.


I reckon you're in awe over many, many things. I prefer the S1 remote for many reasons -- it's better-built and -designed (and so more solid), has a better center of gravity, and has better buttons, for starters. And through the introduction of 9.1 last October, it controlled my S2 just as predictably and reliably as it had controlled my old S1. But thanks for stopping by.


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## aptoszyx2008 (Apr 14, 2008)

When 9.3-01-2-540 first appeared without notice on my S2, I had the following observations:

1) audio was missing on live TV and all recordings made after 9.3 upgrade

rebooting fixed the problem, recordings remained silent.

2) Manual (repeating) recordings did not record because "it was no longer in the guide"

I had to delete and re-program every one of them.

3) Very short breaks in the audio and video (freezes) on the order of 200 milliseconds during playback or live TV. When I hit the 8 second rewind, the problem is not there. It appears to be some software glitch that stutters the playback. Very noticeable several times a day since the upgrade. Never seen this problem before.

Very annoying, no fix known.

4) On the NPL: PC "has no recordings" (may be dealing with Tivo Desktop 2.6 issues, how would I know?) Photo and Music publishing works fine.

5) Software upgrade notification was not given


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

Another bug fixed: under 9.1, bringing up the list of Wishlists under Find Programs to Record | Wishlist Search, entering a Wishlist, and then backing out of the Wishlist would put you back at the top of the list. With 9.3, that's fixed: you're left where you were in the list of Wishlists. What I don't understand is why this behavior is different in various places (To Do list, Recently Deleted, and Wishlists immediately spring to mind). Why isn't TiVo re-using the same code for this? Basically, they're all standard menuing operations. They have a list of objects (or references to objects) and need to follow a reference from a particular object out to the object itself. Then they need to come back (or possibly delete that object). Why have they programmed different methods/objects/modules to do these same tasks depending on where they enter the process?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

bobsoron said:


> I'm boggled (toward Tivo) but appreciative (to you). It's still broken compared to the pre-9.1 days, but I suppose that if it's consistent behavior, it's an improvement over the 9.1 behavior. Thanks.


As far as I know it has always been the case that you have to hit the TiVo button once after a reboot before the TiVo fully knows which remote you are using with it and handles all the extra or missing buttons, compared to the default remote, properly.

The only time you will ever see this glitch is immediately after a reboot and before the first time anyone presses the TiVo button on the remote. So the window of opportunity is very limited. I think if you had looked for it pre-9.1 you would have found it then too.

I know, that I was complaining about this issue last year, probably in the 8.3 era, and several good souls here set me aright.


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

OK, I'm adding this to the Bug List as more people are reporting it:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=390419

With S2s, when you run 'Guided Setup' and choose 'Antenna' for the input, the TiVo hangs at the end of the channel scan, and there is no way out short of unplugging the unit and rerunning 'Guided Setup' and choosing anything besides 'Antenna'. This is the case even if you originally had an OTA antenna setup. There does not seem to be any way to skip the channel scan either. Therefore, there is no way to do an OTA antenna set-up.

It's not a hardware problem, as if you choose anything other than 'Antenna' it breezes right through the set-up.

This may have happened with 9.1, I'm not sure, but for me it didn't happen until immediately after 9.3 .


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Whittaker said:


> OK, I'm adding this to the Bug List as more people are reporting it:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=390419
> 
> ...


Wow! If that's true it's literally a show stopper bug. Have you called Tech Support with the problem? If so what do they say?

Don't use OTA here and not willing to try it to confirm the bug - too risky.

Edit: I know the S2 won't work OTA next year but there are still months of enjoyment to be had before that.


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

This probably isn't a bug, _per se_, but I thought I'd report it here: leaving the Season Pass Manager after moving an entry to a different position takes a LOT longer than it did before. Under 9.1, it took about 5 minutes for the hourglass to go away. Now, it takes about 10 minutes.

BTW: why isn't the rebuilding of the SPM done in the background, anyway? Why can't I have control of the TiVo back while it re-generates the To Do list?


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

I think I have a bad bug after my upgrade to 9.3 on my Series 2.

I have the following scheduled for tonight:

8:00 - 9:02 American Idol on Fox
9:02 - 10:00 Hell's Kitchen on Fox
9:00 - 10:00 Dancing with the Stars on ABC
10:00 - 10:30 Local News

Before the 9.3 upgrade, all was well. Now what I'm seeing is:

8:00 - 9:02 American Idol on Fox
9:02 - 10:00 Hell's Kitchen on Fox
9:02 - 10:00 Dancing with the Stars on ABC *(clipped by 2 minutes)*
10:02 - 10:30 Local News *(clipped by 2 minutes)*

When I go into Dancing with the Stars and try to change it from "clip" to "record on time", it says it can't do it because there is a conflict with American Idol and both tuners are busy. But they are not both busy!!

For today, I went in and cancelled the two shows on Fox and set up manual recordings for them, like this:

8:00 - 9:00 American Idol on Fox (manual)
9:00 - 10:00 Hell's Kitchen on Fox (manual)
9:00 - 10:00 Dancing with the Stars on ABC (this is now ok, no clipping)
10:00 - 10:30 Local News

This looks like a bad bug to me.


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

rich said:


> I think I have a bad bug after my upgrade to 9.3 on my Series 2.
> 
> I have the following scheduled for tonight:
> 
> ...


This actually may be caused by the back to back tuner bug in 9.1.

In 9.1 American Idol and Hell's Kitchen were probably scheduled for different tuners due to the bug causing back to back recordings using both tuners.

Now that bug is fixed it's probably going to cause problems with existing shows in the ToDo list. As new shows are scheduled it should clear up. I think the bug causing this was in 9.1 not in 9.3. Try deleting the SPs and re-creating them and see if the same situation occurs next weeks schedule.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

andyf said:


> This actually may be caused by the back to back tuner bug in 9.1.
> 
> In 9.1 American Idol and Hell's Kitchen were probably scheduled for different tuners due to the bug causing back to back recordings using both tuners.
> 
> Now that bug is fixed it's probably going to cause problems with existing shows in the ToDo list. As new shows are scheduled it should clear up. I think the bug causing this was in 9.1 not in 9.3. Try deleting the SPs and re-creating them and see if the same situation occurs next weeks schedule.


Its highly doubtful that the back to back tuner bug would have any affect. What it looks like is the poster is using padding on their shows and it is causing these conflicts which makes the Tivo clip portions of the padding.


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Its highly doubtful that the back to back tuner bug would have any affect. What it looks like is the poster is using padding on their shows and it is causing these conflicts which makes the Tivo clip portions of the padding.


Nope ... no padding is involved.


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Wow! If that's true it's literally a show stopper bug.


It's definitely a major bummer.



> Have you called Tech Support with the problem?


No, I've had four TiVos for all these years and never needed to call them. Plus I wasn't sure until others started to report it that it wasn't unique.

What's the number ?



> I know the S2 won't work OTA next year but there are still months of enjoyment to be had before that.


Oh, they'll be working long past that, as I have the one that won't allow the completion of the antenna set-up temporarily configured with a DTV converter box with the satellite set-up utilizing the local channels. I hadn't planned to do so until next year, but I have no choice right now.

All I need now is to hire someone to be here to CHANGE THE CHANNELS on the DTV box when I'm sleeping or away from home.

;]


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Whittaker said:


> OK, I'm adding this to the Bug List as more people are reporting it:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=390419
> 
> ...


We're investigating this. Thanks for the report and apologies for the inconvenience!

Pony


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

DaveLessnau said:


> This probably isn't a bug, _per se_, but I thought I'd report it here: leaving the Season Pass Manager after moving an entry to a different position takes a LOT longer than it did before. Under 9.1, it took about 5 minutes for the hourglass to go away. Now, it takes about 10 minutes.
> 
> BTW: why isn't the rebuilding of the SPM done in the background, anyway? Why can't I have control of the TiVo back while it re-generates the To Do list?


Re-ordering your Season Passes should be faster, not slower. Keep an eye on it, it's possible that your box is still settling down (they can sometimes be a little pokey immediately after an update).

When you change the order of the Season Pass Manager, the box runs it's scheduler to update the To Do List. We've discussed doing this in the background, but there is the risk of inconsistency there. If you've changed the order of programs which are starting soon, the box would still record according to the previous priority (not a good experience either, and one that could lead to a support call).

But do keep an eye on how long it takes in general, as it should be faster. Of course, that will vary with the amount of work you're asking the scheduler to do. The number of Season Passes you have, the number that you change, and the ripple effect of each of those changes on other programs in your To Do List all impact the amount of time required. That obviously makes it difficult to compare what you saw a month ago (or even a day ago) with what you see today. Our testing is done with matching systems, identically configured, running various versions of software side by side.

Pony


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

Nevermind, misread post.


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## ilh (Dec 21, 2007)

TiVoPony said:


> When you change the order of the Season Pass Manager, the box runs it's scheduler to update the To Do List. We've discussed doing this in the background, but there is the risk of inconsistency there. *If you've changed the order of programs which are starting soon, the box would still record according to the previous priority (not a good experience either, and one that could lead to a support call).*


Can't that happen now with the foreground processing? I mean, if you're 2 minutes until the time a SP program is about to begin, it doesn't really matter whether it is busy processing in the foreground or background for 4 minutes. It is going to miss that change regardless. Besides, whenever you change SP order, even with the foreground processing, doesn't it always say it may take a while for the To Do list to reflect the changes? Maybe that is when adding a new recording--I can't remember.

I guess I fail to see where the inconsistencies are with background processing.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

rich said:


> 8:00 - 9:02 American Idol on Fox
> 9:02 - 10:00 Hell's Kitchen on Fox
> 9:00 - 10:00 Dancing with the Stars on ABC
> 10:00 - 10:30 Local News


Looking at the above, in order for that to work, both episodes on Fox would have to record on one tuner and the other programs on the other tuner. If the two Fox shows were recorded on two different tuners, then Dancing With the Stars would need to be clipped (as it was below). This leads me to believe that andyf's reasoning may not be correct.



rich said:


> 8:00 - 9:02 American Idol on Fox
> 9:02 - 10:00 Hell's Kitchen on Fox
> 9:02 - 10:00 Dancing with the Stars on ABC *(clipped by 2 minutes)*
> 10:02 - 10:30 Local News *(clipped by 2 minutes)*


This is what would be seen if American Idol was scheduled for one tuner and Hell's Kitchen was scheduled for the other. This would force Dancing to be clipped, though I have no idea why the Local News would be clipped since it doesn't conflict with anything.

What are the priorities of the shows (ie: order of the SP) and what channel is the local news on?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

ilh said:


> I guess I fail to see where the inconsistencies are with background processing.


I can think of two possible reasons for this:

1. If control isn't returned to the user until after the SP that was previously scheduled starts recording, then at least the user knows why the wrong SP recorded.

2. Background processes may run slower than foreground processes. This would mean that it would take longer for the ToDo list to update completely.


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

morac said:


> Looking at the above, in order for that to work, both episodes on Fox would have to record on one tuner and the other programs on the other tuner. If the two Fox shows were recorded on two different tuners, then Dancing With the Stars would need to be clipped (as it was below). This leads me to believe that andyf's reasoning may not be correct.
> 
> This is what would be seen if American Idol was scheduled for one tuner and Hell's Kitchen was scheduled for the other. This would force Dancing to be clipped, though I have no idea why the Local News would be clipped since it doesn't conflict with anything.
> 
> What are the priorities of the shows (ie: order of the SP) and what channel is the local news on?


I'll look up the priorities of the shows later. I also don't see why the Local News would be clipped since nothing else is recording at 10:00. The Local News is on a local (non-network) station; not Fox or ABC. Channel numbers are 13 (Fox), 4 (ABC) and 11 (Local).


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## andyf (Feb 23, 2000)

morac said:


> Looking at the above, in order for that to work, both episodes on Fox would have to record on one tuner and the other programs on the other tuner. If the two Fox shows were recorded on two different tuners, then Dancing With the Stars would need to be clipped (as it was below). This leads me to believe that andyf's reasoning may not be correct.
> 
> This is what would be seen if American Idol was scheduled for one tuner and Hell's Kitchen was scheduled for the other. This would force Dancing to be clipped, though I have no idea why the Local News would be clipped since it doesn't conflict with anything.
> 
> What are the priorities of the shows (ie: order of the SP) and what channel is the local news on?


Did you mean andyf's reasoning may be correct? I surmized that the two fox shows would be set to record on different tuners. That was the bug in 9.1 and 9.2.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

andyf said:


> Did you mean andyf's reasoning may be correct? I surmized that the two fox shows would be set to record on different tuners. That was the bug in 9.1 and 9.2.


No. If you look at the original way it was scheduled on rich's TiVo before it updated to 9.3, there was no way the 2 Fox shows could have been set to record on different tuners. If they were then "Dancing with the Stars on ABC" would have been forced to be clipped because it would conflict with both American Idol and Hell's Kitchen. Since it wasn't clipped, that means both Fox shows had to be scheduled on the same tuner.

His post is somewhat confusing since he states "I have the following scheduled for tonight:" and then posts the scheduled recording list which implies that's what the list is like now, but then he follows that with "Before the 9.3 upgrade, all was well. Now what I'm seeing is." This implies that the first list is what he saw prior to upgrading and the second list is what it is like now.

In any case, the back to back tuner issue in 9.1/9.2 is that back to back programs will always use different tuners when the alternate tuner is idle. If the alternate tuner is not idle (ie: it was recording) then back to back programs will record on the same tuner.  9.1/9.2 still follows the SP priority list rules so if it can fit all 4 shows in it will try to do so, even if that results in two back to back shows on the same channel ending up scheduled on the same tuner.

That said, you may be correct and the changes in 9.3 might have caused the TiVo to try and reschedule all upcoming programs. This would explain the clipping of "Dancing with the Stars", but it wouldn't explain why the local news was clipped since it didn't conflict with anything. I've also never heard of a software update causing all programs in the To Do list to be rescheduled.

As for the original issue, I'm thinking that if Rich reordered the SP's in question, the TiVo may have corrected itself since that would force the To Do list to update.


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## kucharsk (Feb 2, 2007)

Anyone know yet if 9.3 fixes the hangs when going to the diagnostics page?

(After an S3 has been running for a day or two after a boot on 9.2a, attempting to go to the System Diagnostics page puts my S3 into "Please Wait" status forever; it's not cancelable and requires a power cycle to exit it.)


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## Blurayfan (Oct 6, 2003)

RoyK said:


> I have no problem with that. My complaint was when I download from Unbox I get a Unbox folder with the show in it and the show also bare on the NPL. Two downloads, two in the Unbox folder and two separately listed on the NPL etc. Would be like all your Law & Orders being in the folders you mentioned and all of them separately listed on the NPL too.


IIRC The reason this is done is to be consistent with DVR recorded content. For Example if download episodes of a particular TV series all episodes of the series are put in the unbox folder and a Season Pass based folder of the show the same as TiVo does now with recorded content. Movies or single episodes are just listed on the NPL alone.


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

morac said:


> No. If you look at the original way it was scheduled on rich's TiVo before it updated to 9.3, there was no way the 2 Fox shows could have been set to record on different tuners. If they were then "Dancing with the Stars on ABC" would have been forced to be clipped because it would conflict with both American Idol and Hell's Kitchen. Since it wasn't clipped, that means both Fox shows had to be scheduled on the same tuner.
> 
> His post is somewhat confusing since he states "I have the following scheduled for tonight:" and then posts the scheduled recording list which implies that's what the list is like now, but then he follows that with "Before the 9.3 upgrade, all was well. Now what I'm seeing is." This implies that the first list is what he saw prior to upgrading and the second list is what it is like now.
> 
> ...


When I say "all was well" before the 9.3 upgrade, I meant that everything was scheduled with no clipping involved. After the 9.3 upgrade, two of the shows were going to be clipped.

Looking ahead, the same situation is still in place for next week, on 4/22. Dancing with the Stars and Local News are going to be clipped for no apparent reason.

The SP priority order is: American Idol, Hell's Kitchen, Dancing with the Stars, Local News. I tried rearranging the priority order and nothing changed.

I will try canceling and recreating the SPs for all of the shows and see what happens.


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## Whittaker (Oct 11, 2004)

TiVoPony said:


> We're investigating this. Thanks for the report and apologies for the inconvenience!
> 
> Pony


That's good to hear.

Thanks, you saved me a call.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

rich said:


> The SP priority order is: American Idol, Hell's Kitchen, Dancing with the Stars, Local News. I tried rearranging the priority order and nothing changed.


That's very strange since if you raised Dancing with the Stars priority to be higher than the rest, it should never be clipped. Hopefully recreating the SP fixes whatever issue it has. If it does, my guess is that if you had waited until the following week, it would have cleared itself up on it's own.


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## rich (Mar 18, 2002)

I canceled and recreated all four of the Season Passes and everything got scheduled properly with no clipping.

Later I looked at some other shows and saw that in many cases a later airing was scheduled even though only one other show was set to record at the time of the earlier airing. For example, on Sunday at 9:00, Desperate Housewives was set to record on ABC. Iron Chef America was set to record at 12:00am, even though it could have also recorded at 9:00pm. I went into the recording history to find out why the 9:00pm airing of ICA was not scheduled. It said it was because "someone in my household had modified the season pass". Well, I certainly didn't do it ... it must have been the upgrade. I canceled the ICA season pass and recreated it and it got scheduled for 9:00 as usual. This was the case for maybe six season passes.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

rich said:


> I canceled and recreated all four of the Season Passes and everything got scheduled properly with no clipping.
> 
> Later I looked at some other shows and saw that in many cases a later airing was scheduled even though only one other show was set to record at the time of the earlier airing. For example, on Sunday at 9:00, Desperate Housewives was set to record on ABC. Iron Chef America was set to record at 12:00am, even though it could have also recorded at 9:00pm. I went into the recording history to find out why the 9:00pm airing of ICA was not scheduled. It said it was because "someone in my household had modified the season pass". Well, I certainly didn't do it ... it must have been the upgrade. I canceled the ICA season pass and recreated it and it got scheduled for 9:00 as usual. This was the case for maybe six season passes.


I had a similar problem on Tuesday. Hell's Kitchen wasn't recorded even though one of the tuners was free. When I went into the recording history to see why it wasn't recorded, it says that it appeared in the NPL or To Do List in the last 28 days. It was a brand new episode. How could that be? Luckily it will re-air this weekend on Fox Reality.


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## SDRR (Dec 26, 2003)

Before 9.3a, rebooting my TivoHD would restore the missing channels that I would get every 3 days or so as a result of Cox, Tivo and my SA M-card.

But now, I can't get the channel map back even with a reboot. So, this is definitely a step backwards for a bug that already was miserable.

I'm going to see if Cox can restore it...


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

Here's a new bug for me. I haven't seen anyone else mention it.

I have 9.3a (as of Wednesday night, I think) on an original S3 with two moto cablecards and Comcast cable.

A suggestion (Coupling), taped off of BBCA (digital SD channel) last night, refuses to play back properly. It keeps skipping ahead, with the video in fast-forward mode, and the audio simply skipping ahead. It'll play a little bit normally (1-2s), then macroblock and jump forward maybe 15 seconds. Rinse, repeat 'til end of show. The half-hour show "plays" in about 15 minutes. Same thing happens if I play it again. Hard to say if the error is in the recording or in the playback.

I've never seen this before.

Hope it doesn't happen again, because the program is completely unwatchable. TiVo won't be too popular in my house if, say, they trash an episode of Lost instead of an unsolicited suggestion.


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## edrock200 (Feb 7, 2002)

Potential bug....someone else try please:

Go to now playing list on THD1.

Using MRV, open up List for THD2

Chose a show to transfer

It should go to a screen asking to watch the show, or continue browsing, tell it to continue browsing. Open the same show again (from the remote NP list, not the local NP list) and tell it to stop the transfer. It will act as though it stopped, but its still tranferring (blue light is still on, Local NP list shows it recording and progress bar continues to grow if played back.)

If you cancel from your local NP list, it seems to actually cancel.

Can anyone else reproduce this?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aiken said:


> It'll play a little bit normally (1-2s), then macroblock and jump forward maybe 15 seconds. ...
> I've never seen this before.


It's not new. The fast-forward-over-bad-spots feature was in 9.2a... might've been introduced there, I don't remember. As for the bad spots themselves, that's probably down to your cable company.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Aiken said:


> Here's a new bug for me. I haven't seen anyone else mention it. I have 9.3a (as of Wednesday night, I think) on an original S3 with two moto cablecards and Comcast cable. A suggestion (Coupling), taped off of BBCA (digital SD channel) last night, refuses to play back properly. It keeps skipping ahead, with the video in fast-forward mode, and the audio simply skipping ahead. It'll play a little bit normally (1-2s), then macroblock and jump forward maybe 15 seconds. Rinse, repeat 'til end of show. The half-hour show "plays" in about 15 minutes. Same thing happens if I play it again. Hard to say if the error is in the recording or in the playback. I've never seen this before. Hope it doesn't happen again, because the program is completely unwatchable. TiVo won't be too popular in my house if, say, they trash an episode of Lost instead of an unsolicited suggestion.


I have had that infrequently since I bought my S3. Apparently, there are two possible causes, from what I've read:

1) (Intermittant) bad signal from the source; or

2) Inadequate capacity in the box to support recording two 1080i feeds and playing one 1080i recording back at the same time.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

Here's another new one for me:

In several different shows now, when I've tried to use 1x rewind, it won't stop where I stop. It always stops well-forward of where I stopped. In fact, hitting 1x rewind and then play over and over actually moves _foward_.

It's like they no longer bother seeking to better than a GOP... so if the GOP is a few seconds long the way comcast likes to make it, instead of 15 frames, you're screwed.

I use 1x rewind all the time... it was NOT like this before 9.3. Believe me, I'm both a senior software engineer and off-and-on beta tester for several different software packages. I'm detail-oriented. I don't miss stuff like this for years and then suddenly notice. It's new.

What a terrible thing to break... *TiVo, you need to stop breaking basic playback functionality.* First frame advance, now this? That's pretty lame. These are MAJOR, FUNDAMENTAL FEATURES. You can't let them get broken like this. It destroys confidence in the product and TiVo's ability to maintain it.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I just wanted to throw this out to see if anyone has seen this behavior.
I'm currently experiencing an interesting bug with a TivoHD.

Earlier, I transferred a 1 hour show from my S2 (which btw took ~an hour and 15 min.), and watched it.
Watched a few other shows in the NPL, then initiated another transfer from the S2 (which is currently in progress).

Here's the bug. Now in Live TV, when tuning to any analog channel, the picture comes up frozen and the sound plays for ~3 secs then stops.
Digital channels tune and play fine.

I'm going to let the current transfer complete and then see what happens but I bet I'll have to reboot.
I'll give the Tivo a couple of days to index and what not, then try and duplicate this bug.
I'll report back if I can.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Aiken said:


> These are MAJOR, FUNDAMENTAL FEATURES. You can't let them get broken like this. It destroys confidence in the product and TiVo's ability to maintain it.


It's a lost cause. The CEO probably doesn't have a *clue* about technology. His previous job was CEO of Primedia. This was a media conglomerate (since busted up). Here were some of the pieces:

Apartment Guide

Rentals.com

Hot Rod Magazine

Surfing Magazine
This guy is the John Sculley of our time. He's probably not someone who should be running a company where *technology* matters.

And, frankly, I don't care if Rogers is in reality a bigger technogeek than Jobs. For all I care, Rogers could be a Unix kernel uberhacker and also a theoretical physicist and also a chip architect. None of that matters. Results matter. Execution matters. Despite "first mover" advantage, TiVo has been a miserable failure compared to the potential greatness this company could have achieved. And it's only gotten worse since Rogers took over.

I blame the CEO because he gets paid the most. He's paid to be the visionary. He's paid to be the leader. He's failed.

The really sad thing is that TiVo's competitors are all also miserable failures. Compared to them, Tivo is great! Motorola (nee General Instrument) is a pathetic remnant of a formerly great company. Scientific Atlanta is some tiny little pimple on Cisco's butt.

The competition is pathetic. Why isn't TiVo killing them? And yet TiVo still screws up. Badly.

I'm mad because it's *personal.* I paid a lot more for my TiVo HD's and yet they are much flakier than my DirecTiVos. This is progress?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Oh my god, what do you people do all day to generate this much negativity!?! Do you get up in the morning and spend the next 16 hours sat in front of your TiVo driven TVs, looking for every flaw you can find?

Come on people, TiVo is a PVR. An appliance. It lets you filter the crap out of TV broadcasts and record only the shows you really want to watch. It has arguably the best user interface currently out there and offers you way more options to find and record stuff than any of its competitors.

It works and it works damned well. Yes, it isn't perfect. What is nowadays!? It helps you watch stuff when it's convenient for you. I'd wager that is all most of us with TiVos want from a PVR appliance. The TiVo user experience is mostly excellent and it's not worth losing sleep over its flaws and quirks. In the end, it's only about TV viewing folks.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TrueTurbo said:


> .......Yes, it isn't perfect. What is nowadays!? .......


And that is a good thing how?


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

Here's another new bug in _basic DVR functionality..._

I paused live TV for more than half an hour. I came back and it was stuck where it was paused. The tick in the trickplay bar was moving forward, stuck at the left end of the green section, but the video was frozen where I left it, and I couldn't fast foward, skip, or do anything else to move it. The play-mode icon below the trickplay bar would change for one frame, and then go back to what it was (pause).

Eventually, it started a recording on the same tuner and resolved itself, but until then, it was stuck.

---

By the way, for all TiVo fanbois who have to defend against every slight: These bugs are real. They have a negative impact on my life. They would surely have a negative impact on less-technical people who don't know why something just got broken. Your awesome experience doesn't change mine or theirs one iota. Thus, shut up and stop trying to distract people from reality.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

TrueTurbo said:


> It works and it works damned well.


See, that's the problem. It works better than the competition, but saying "damned well" is quite a stretch.

For example, just a week ago my TiVo HD decided that there was "no signal" on the inputs. So it didn't record about 5 or 6 shows. Of course, after I rebooted it worked just fine.

If you owned a one year-old car that worked fine most days, but perhaps one day every 6 months the car inexplicably decided not to function for a period of 8 hours, would you still say the car worked "damned well"?

What's worse, during this whole time you're paying "protection money" to Tommy TiVo, the guy who sold you the car. He stops by periodically and fiddles under the hood. You dread Tommy's visits, because whenever he fixes one glitch in the car, he inevitably creates another. Of course you don't notice the new glitch until the next week. And it goes without saying that Tommy *never* tells you exactly what he's doing to your car.

But try not paying Tommy his protection money for a few months. Then he'll make damned sure that your car is almost completely unusable until you pay up.

Go ahead, try calling Tommy TiVo for help. He employs legions of minions (who barely speak English) in the far reaches of the "flat earth" to screen your calls from Tommy or anyone on his staff who has the knowledge and ability to help you, or to even understand your problem.

But there's even more to the story. Occasionally one of Tommy's minions drops by with a note either saying that your problems aren't that serious (and so won't be fixed at all) or will be fixed the next time Tommy comes by (in 6 months).

Living with TiVo is like living with a dysfunctional family. Complete with plenty of family members who are more than willing to defend and excuse the bad behavior.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

RoyK said:


> And that is a good thing how?


Didn't say it was a good thing. It's just the way it is. You are free to spend your life looking for perfection. Me, I'll make the best I can with what I can get hold of. If something better comes along, I'll try that too.


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> See, that's the problem. It works better than the competition, but saying "damned well" is quite a stretch.


Not a stretch in any way shape or form for me. My TiVo works exceptionally well. I'm sorry yours doesn't. My experience with TiVo over the years is just as valid as yours is and I'm justified to sing its praises like you are justified to slag it off.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

TrueTurbo--

The thread is titled, "9.3 Bugs." You're off-topic, distracting, and diluting. If you wish to sing TiVo's praises, please start a new thread for that purpose. Thank you.


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## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

Another new one... video on live TV just froze while audio continued. I had to trickplay to get it going again. Again, never saw this one before.

And yet _another_ new one... when I use 1x rewind *near* the start of a program, and then press play to cease rewinding, it jumps all the way to the actual start of the program, rather than stopping 30-40 seconds in, where I actually pressed play. (This is in contrast to the other rewind bug I found, where it would jump forwards in other parts of the program--which is happening a lot, by the way.)

I'm getting kind of ticked off. Sure, the other releases often broke UI all over the place, and even one or two playback functions, but it wasn't the end of the world. However, it's crossing a threshold here. When I can't rewind and get predictable, acceptable results, that's a pretty serious flaw for a DVR to have. Or will a DVR some day be kind of like MTV, where the description no longer has anything to do with the product?


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> If you owned a one year-old car that worked fine most days, but perhaps one day every 6 months the car inexplicably decided not to function for a period of 8 hours, would you still say the car worked "damned well"?


I don't drive my TiVo to work. And I think that points out the problem here: Folks who expect everything in the world to work exactly as well as everything else in the world are missing important distinctions, distinctions that are _critical_ to understand in order to be able to tell the difference between their own personal disappointment and an actual "bug".


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I&#180;ll bet Aiken&#180;s DVD player doesn&#180;t jump around like that. But then again his DVD player is no DVR, and I don&#180;t want to speak for Aiken either. 

Are other people having these sorts of issues too?


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## TrueTurbo (Feb 19, 2008)

Aiken said:


> TrueTurbo--
> 
> The thread is titled, "9.3 Bugs." You're off-topic, distracting, and diluting. If you wish to sing TiVo's praises, please start a new thread for that purpose. Thank you.


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

Has anybody else noticed the "double checkmark" icon shown next to episodes of shows that _*aren't *_scheduled to be recorded? I've seen it about 3-4 times in the past few days so far.


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

This has happened twice, now. But, I still don't know how to reproduce it or even if it's REALLY happening (I might be fat-fingering things): While watching a show, I decide I don't like it. I change the Thumb rating from the default 1 Thumb Up to 1 Thumb Down and back (left) arrow out of the show to the show description in the Now Playing list. I then down arrow a couple of times to the Delete option and select it. Nothing happens. I wait a bit to make sure it's not sneaking up on me and select Delete again. This time it works. I'll keep trying to confirm this is really happening and (if so) try to nail down the behavior.


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## clovis8 (Nov 23, 2005)

Not sure if this is a 9.3 bug but my recorded video seems to be degraded since the update. Not a huge amount but noticeably more grainy. My tivo is rather old (ca. 4 years) perhaps this is a product of the hard drive age and not 9.3.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

I thought I would post this here, repeated from my "CSI Didn't Record" thread, as it is most appropriate here.



> And I have noticed another thing about passes. I wondered why no House recored on Monday. I checked the history and there was no mention of House not recording (it should have told me it was a repeat). I found House in the Search by Title list and it offered me to "Get a Season Pass"! Wait, I have a Pass for House. I went ahead and created the Pass and proceeded to go move it higher in the Pass list. As I moved the new House Pass to the top of my list, what should I find in the same area? My original Season Pass for House! I had two House Passes, both for the same channel in my Pass list. That should not happen. All of these issues are definitely bugs.


Also, if I go to Season Pass Manager, View Upcoming Episodes of a Pass, select an episode to view details, there is an option on that screen to "Get A Season Pass." But I have a Pass. I have not tried it to see if I again end up with two Passes for the same show/channel.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

ebf said:


> Also, if I go to Season Pass Manager, View Upcoming Episodes of a Pass, select an episode to view details, there is an option on that screen to "Get A Season Pass." But I have a Pass. I have not tried it to see if I again end up with two Passes for the same show/channel.


Season Passes work on a per channel basis so you can have two SPs for the same show as long as they are on different channels. Are you sure both SP are on the same channel?

Also if a show's internal id changes in the guide data, that will cause the TiVo to think it's a different program even if it is on the same channel. It doesn't happen often, but it's happened in the past.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

morac said:


> ... Are you sure both SP are on the same channel?...


Yes, I had "House (KSPT 9)" twice, after adding the second one. Before the addition, I checked the original pass to see if it was planning to record next week's-- it was not. After adding the second "copy" of the Pass, both correctly indicated the new episodes scheduled to record. Weird.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Did that channel change recently (lineup change)? My guess is repeating the channel choice of guided setup (from in the channel list screen) would probably fix this.


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## ebf (Mar 21, 2005)

morac said:


> Did that channel change recently (lineup change)? ...


Nope, no changes to my network TV channels. Has anyone else with 9.3 tried to repeat the "get a season pass" when you already have a season pass issue?


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## hockeyinsd (Sep 23, 2005)

This may be a bug, may not be, but it showed up around the time 9.3 rolled out. When I go into the NPL and choose a program (or choose a program from the list of programs in the folders), it goes to the screen where you would choose play, info, record to vcr, more options, etc; but it hangs for approx 5-10 seconds. There is just a blank screen. I first noticed a 2-3 weeks ago and figured that I just needed to do a reboot to fix it (the tivo is in my bedroom, so I don't use it all the time). Anyways, last night I tried restarting the tivo, didn't help, tried unplugging and restarting, didn't help. Is this a bug anyone else has seen or is this indicative of another problem.

FYI, it is a 240 S2 that I upgraded to a 400GB drive in Oct of 2006. I've had the unit since Oct of 2003.

Thanks!


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Started a transfer of one show, selected another to transfer, and TiVo 9.3 gives me a choice of "Stop Transferring" or "Don't Stop" yet I wasn't transferring it!!

This was probably reported earlier in this thread, but that's too much to wade through again to double-check!


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## etz (Sep 8, 2006)

Yea, I get that too. I found that if I do a quick left to get get back to the remote NP list, and then a quick right to get back to the transfer recording screen, it will show OK then. I think it also only seems to happen with the second recording in a row that you try to setup for transfer. The subsequent ones seem to work OK (I think).


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Started a transfer of one show, selected another to transfer, and TiVo 9.3 gives me a choice of "Stop Transferring" or "Don't Stop" yet I wasn't transferring it!!
> 
> This was probably reported earlier in this thread, but that's too much to wade through again to double-check!


You wouldn't have had to wade far -- it was in the first message of the thread.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

TiVoEvan74 said:


> Started a transfer of one show, selected another to transfer, and TiVo 9.3 gives me a choice of "Stop Transferring" or "Don't Stop" yet I wasn't transferring it!!


I had this happen last night. When I backed out and re-entered I was able to put the second transfer in queue.
Did you happen to select the 2nd show right after starting the first?
I chalked it up to the UI being faster than the Tivos ''processing''.


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## ghasulak (Feb 15, 2002)

New bug....

The child protection ratings that we had set up are changed to more restrictive settings. OK - no problem... but when i get to the screen where I change the settings (TV-14, TV-PG, etc) there is no way out!! It says press select (or use the left arrow) but you can't exit the screen. 

The only way out is to unplug the Tivo for a reboot.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

steve614 said:


> I had this happen last night. When I backed out and re-entered I was able to put the second transfer in queue.
> Did you happen to select the 2nd show right after starting the first?
> I chalked it up to the UI being faster than the Tivos ''processing''.


I've had it happen 15 minutes after the first transfer started


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

RoyK said:


> No, I don't use most of the features - just regular TV recording and playback and heavy MRV. My wife in fact caught the problem with the second bug in the first post of this thread and brought it to my attention. She was merely setting up a couple of transferred programs to watch while she did her morning dialysis. She's as non technical as they come.


My wife just reported she cannot get MRV to work upstairs. Same problem - blue light on front suggests a transfer is in progress and every request goes into a queue. Rebooting does not clear it and it's been like it for hours. The S3 in the bedroom is almost exclusively used for MRV - well it was !!!

Is it possible to reverse the upgrade?


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

ghasulak said:


> The only way out is to unplug the Tivo for a reboot.


Welcome to 1980's software.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

nhaigh said:


> Is it possible to reverse the upgrade?


No.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Ha, ha! So my bug was reported in the first post--certainly wouldn't have to wade through anything.  Seeing 5 pages was daunting.

OTOH, this confirms that it's still there and that many of us are getting it.

I did up backing up and redoing it, but then, given how slow the MRV is, it failed to transfer even though it showed it for hours in the queue!


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

I've got a Manual Recording set up for Fox & Friends from 6:00AM to 7:00AM M-F on Fox News Channel (Ch 55). Prior to the 9.3 update, it was set for Keep At Most 1. Today, I noticed two episodes sitting in the folder. Checking the settings, it had changed from KAM 1 to KAM 5. Neither the wife nor I had changed it. I assume this was related to the 9.3 update.


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## tldmat (Jul 2, 2006)

I have the same problem that many have reported of long time season passes now not recording and strange and inaccurate reasons being listed in Recording History. 
1. Yes, re-entering the season pass seems to fix it. 
2. Yes each of these shows when called up will act like there is no season pass and will allow you to have 2 season passes for the exact same show something I did not think it allowed before.
3. Rebuilding the channel guide does not seem to fix it.
4. Yes unless you scan your To-Do list you will be missing some shows
5. I have reported this over the phone to TIVO support who made like it was the first time they ever heard of the problem, I have a case number.
6. Tivo's initial fix is for you to enter all your season passes again (OH BOY)
7. And this is what irrates me the most, even if they fix it and I assume they will, they will not admit to the bug nor notify you when it is fixed. They have my email address and phone, I pay monthly for a service so why don't they do the courteous thing and admit it and then communicate that it is solved. Is it really my responsibility to be sure my unit does something that has been a feature since my first Sony Tivo box almost a decade ago?

If anyone from Tivo monitors this forum how about a response.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

I suspect you'll get a response if you report the bug to TiVo.


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

Glad to hear you opened up a case file with them!

What are some of the strange reasons being reported when things haven't recorded? Do any include the "power lost or unit unplugged" messages? Or am I the only one--and that's because of wireless going off?


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## defcon43 (Apr 2, 2008)

I am new to this forum so forgive me if i posted in the wrong place. I have had my S2 for a few months now and use all of the features regularly. I had the 9.1a software on my box as of a week ago and sometime on the 27th it upgraded to 9.3 and since then I have had issues with the streaming music function when listening to music files from my server PC in my office. That is seemingly the only effected function as the photos still display fine and my third party apps still function fine. I am on a wired network so I know it isn't RF interference. The box will take 4 or 5 songs and then it will freeze up for a little while (30 to 90 seconds) then it returns to the NPL until I acually do a soft reset on the box it will not find the router or obtain a IP address (DHCP handshake) also assigning a static IP does not make a difference. Sorry for the long post I just wanted to post my findings, I do like the speed enhancements and this is the only function I have found that was effected maybe the next release will fix this issue.


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

I'm definitely losing Thumbs with 9.3. I have given "National Head-Up Poker Challenge" a single Thumbs Up rating 4 times now since getting 9.3. I just took a look at it again, and the Thumb rating is gone. Unless the cat is sneaking in during the middle of the night to make the change, no one here is doing so.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Have you tried with any other series?


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## mbhuff (Jan 25, 2004)

Dave,

I think the problem with the poker show is that it isn't in the guide data as a series, so the Tivo thinks that each show is a unique and different show rather than episodes of the same show, hence season passes and suggestions won't work. I've seen this happen over the years with my TiVo with similar type shows, I don't think it's a 9.3 issue.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

(Which is why I asked what I asked.)


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## DaveLessnau (Nov 10, 2000)

Looks like you guys got it. I double-checked the Recently Deleted folder and there was a "National Heads-Up Poker Challenge" still in there. It was correctly Thumbed. All the upcoming versions are Thumbless. The detailed guide data also has no series or episode numbers. I guess the reason I didn't notice is that I pick that show up via an ARWL for Poker. I never would have thought that a regularly occurring show with one name wouldn't be a series. Thanks.


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Since getting 9.3 on my 4 S2's I've noticed that I get audio glitches during playback.
The show audio plays normally, but there are quick, high pitched noises that sound kind of like FF'ing on a CD player. Like some tiny snippet of the audio is played quickly at a high pitch.
So far it happens with varying frequency - an episode of Supernatural had it going almost constantly, an episode of Survivor only did it a couple of times (that I noticed anyway).
Been searching and haven't seen anyone else with an issue like this - let me know if I missed any info., please.
My S2's are all 240's, all have upgraded HDD's, all are hardwired to Ethernet.
Didn't notice this problem before getting 9.3.
I'll reboot each of the units to see if it clears the issue up, but since it's happening on all 4 machines I figured I'd post now in hopes that someone else might have more info.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

Crrink said:


> Since getting 9.3 on my 4 S2's I've noticed that I get audio glitches during playback.
> The show audio plays normally, but there are quick, high pitched noises that sound kind of like FF'ing on a CD player. Like some tiny snippet of the audio is played quickly at a high pitch.


Yes, I definitely have this going on as well. It's mildly annoying.

Again, I'll say that I fear for the Tivo code. As the system gets increasingly complex, there will be fewer programmers who understand it. Bugs will increase.

Doesn't it seem like minor bugs are hanging around a lot longer than they used to?


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## ZombiE (Dec 17, 2005)

They don't give a crap anymore about their customers or the bugs in the software. The only thing they seem to be focusing on is adding more features and breaking more of the code. 
When you call they act like your the only person on the entire planet, solar system, universe, that has a bug. "Oh, my!"
Then you have to wait three months to see if they fix it, or if the new feature(s) that they are cramming down your throat, broke it more.

Fix what is broken, then move on........Oh wait, find another place to add MORE advertising, there are some menu's that you have missed.......

Tivo software engineering :down:

Don't even know if they deserve the term engineer in that title.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

ZombiE said:


> They don't give a crap anymore about their customers or the bugs in the software. The only thing they seem to be focusing on is adding more features and breaking more of the code.


I would bet that you are wrong. I suspect that they give pretty-much as much "crap" as they always have; perhaps you were snowed into thinking they gave more "crap" than they did, at some earlier time, or perhaps you are seeing things so much more negatively now than before is because your personal priorities are diverging from the things that they are now considering the stronger priorities.



ZombiE said:


> When you call they act like your the only person on the entire planet, solar system, universe, that has a bug.


I remember that happening to me with them with my Series 1. It happens everywhere, actually, in my experience.


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## ZombiE (Dec 17, 2005)

Wow Bicker, Nice response. I was actually laughing reading it.

I will have to remember this post so I can quote your "crap speech".

Man you have a good sense of humor. :up:

My priorities haven't really changed in the way I use my Tivos, just to tired anymore to really give a crap about all the bugs, Tivo has won, they have worn me down to the point that I could really care less if they fix it or not....

Unfortunately my view of Tivo has done a 180. I hate that, I was so fascinated with it when I first got it, until the first software update hit my box and things have just gone downhill since then.
I was really looking forward to getting an HD unit. I held off to see what problems there would be. I know that the majority of people have no issues, but somehow I seem to get most of them, I have with the S2 boxes I own and I see no difference in the HD units and the problem threads that abound here.

Z


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Bug I just noticed---probably not new, but I don't see it listed in this thread:

I have a show scheduled to record Friday morning at 12:00 midnight. I've set the recording options the start recording 2 minutes early.

If I look at my To-Do list, the recording appears, saying that it will be recording *Friday* at 11:58PM.

(Note: It shows up at the right place, before all the other shows scheduled to record during Friday, but it still says "Friday" instead of "Thursday")


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## xdroccax (Feb 26, 2006)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> For example, just a week ago my TiVo HD decided that there was "no signal" on the inputs. So it didn't record about 5 or 6 shows. Of course, after I rebooted it worked just fine.


Not sure if the "No Signal" issue is a wide spread issue or not, or even if it's considered a "bug". But we've been getting the no signal issue on one of the S3 ever since the 9.3a update! What's odd is that the S3 in the bedroom doesn't have this problem. Been working with Tivo techs (case #8875974) on this for a while now. First they said it's not hardware since the symptons can vary from no signal only analog cable and not OTA, and vice versa. Sometimes both analog cable and OTA both don't work. Most of the time, a reboot fixes the problem. Now Tivo is saying it's not software since the other S3 doesn't have this problem. AND I'm the only customer that has reported this issue.

So now it's going to cost some $$ to replace the hardware for a refurb unit! The problematic S3 was puchased NEW from CircuitCity on *Dec 7, 2007* w/LT. Is Tivo trying to steal more $$ for this bug, or do you think they are correct in that this is a hardware issue. I don't want to pay Tivo to swap for a refurb unit IF this is a software bug.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

xdroccax said:


> Not sure if the "No Signal" issue is a wide spread issue or not, or even if it's considered a "bug". But we've been getting the no signal issue on one of the S3 ever since the 9.3a update! What's odd is that the S3 in the bedroom doesn't have this problem.


Well the simplest way to trouble shoot that is swap the S3s' location and see if the problems follows the S3 or is related to the location.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

xdroccax said:


> First they said it's not hardware since the symptons can vary from no signal only analog cable and not OTA, and vice versa. Sometimes both analog cable and OTA both don't work. Most of the time, a reboot fixes the problem.


My "no signal" problem occurred in recording *digital* QAM from cable, using cablecards. My cable company employs ADS (analog digital simulcast) so I couldn't record analog from cable even if I wanted to.

I have a distribution amp where the cable enters my house. My signal quality is very high; it's not a situation where I was trying to record a marginal signal.

But I haven't called TiVo to complain. First, because it's been a month or more since it happened (low frequency of occurence); and second because I don't enjoy dealing with 1st-level-support script monkeys.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I have a distribution amp where the cable enters my house. My signal quality is very high; it's not a situation where I was trying to record a marginal signal.


That could be the problem. The TiVo hardware is not good at handling high powered signals (see the FIOS thread for more info)


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## Expat (Nov 19, 2004)

I thought the 9.1 bugs were a pain, but after having the 9.3 software on my S2's I was for a brief period happy
At long last both S2's could see each other.
It didn't last long, we usually record shows during the week and then transfer shows MRV to watch on Friday evening.
Last night rebooted TiVo so other TiVo shows in NP,
Browse other NP select show to transfer,
Select contiue browsing,
Select 2nd show, get the BS stop transfer.
Return to folder select another episode of same show, same BS
return to NP of orig TiVo,
Other TiVo not showing in NP.

What total BS!

The 1st transfer is merrily transfering.

Issues like this, make of the offers of re-introducing Lifetime for $399, Rhapsody BS etc having me itching to pull the trigger NOT.


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## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

morac said:


> That could be the problem. The TiVo hardware is not good at handling high powered signals (see the FIOS thread for more info)


No, my distribution amp isn't the problem.

Before I added it I was seeing no end of dropouts and pixelation. Based on the display in my cable modem (hopefully at least somewhat matched in signal strength to the video channels) I used to have a receive signal of approx -7 dBmV. With the amp I'm at about +3 dBmV. ANSI specs say that a cable box should work at something like a range of +/- 12 dBmV (I've posted exact values before but am too lazy to look up again). TiVo doesn't work very well at the bottom end of that range.

However, the FiOS problems aren't really the TiVo's fault. For some stupid reason Verizon sets the output levels on some ONTs to be very very high. I've seen claims of +20 or +25 dBmV. Way outside the ANSI range.


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