# Preferred 1TB drive for S3?



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

So what's the current preferred 1TB *internal* drive for the Tivo S3? My favorite 1TB drive otherwise is the WD10EACS, but those don't work in the S3 anymore. (Yes, I've seen the official eSATA thread, but I'm asking about internal drives, not external ones.)

The WD10EVCS isn't available at newegg, which is odd. And the one on amazon looks fishy (the code is in the fine print only, so I'd be concerned about geting an EACS not an EVCS).

I'd prefer a low-noise one, and I'd prefer to buy from newegg (cheap shipping, good experiences with them to date). I also like the low-heat ones from WD, but if that won't work, so be it.

Any advice?


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 works great. Use their FeatureTool utility to adjust the acoustics and it will run the same as the CinemaStar, which is also a great drive.

We've used both without any problems at all.

Lou


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

tivoupgrade said:


> The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 works great. Use their FeatureTool utility to adjust the acoustics and it will run the same as the CinemaStar, which is also a great drive.
> 
> We've used both without any problems at all.
> 
> Lou


Thanks! Just ordered one from Newegg. Is the "FeatureTool" something I can run in Vista, or should I just do the hdparm command (I forget offhand the syntax) to set the acoustics? Or is it all the same thing?


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Thanks! Just ordered one from Newegg. Is the "FeatureTool" something I can run in Vista, or should I just do the hdparm command (I forget offhand the syntax) to set the acoustics? Or is it all the same thing?


The feature tool is a boot disk(cd), which does not involve the os at all. You will need to configure, in the bios, for the pc to boot from the cd drive.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

dwit said:


> The feature tool is a boot disk(cd), which does not involve the os at all. You will need to configure, in the bios, for the pc to boot from the cd drive.


Cool, as long as it's a CD. I don't think I could even dig up a floppy drive anymore!

Is it obvious, or is there a specific setting I should be looking for?


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Cool, as long as it's a CD. I don't think I could even dig up a floppy drive anymore!
> 
> Is it obvious, or is there a specific setting I should be looking for?


It's pretty obvious, but it's been quite a few months, for me, so can't give specifics.

Btw, download the image from the Hitachi Global Storage support/download site, and burn to cd. Assuming you ordered oem drive which will not include software.

Pretty sure the tool(the acoustics adjustment, at least) works only if the drives are connected directly to the SATA connectors on the motherboard. No usb adapters, etc.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

dwit said:


> It's pretty obvious, but it's been quite a few months, for me, so can't give specifics.
> 
> Btw, download the image from the Hitachi Global Storage support/download site, and burn to cd. Assuming you ordered oem drive which will not include software.
> 
> Pretty sure the tool(the acoustics adjustment, at least) works only if the drives are connected directly to the SATA connectors on the motherboard. No usb adapters, etc.


Yeah, same with all SATA drives... SMART data, and acoustic management will only work when directly connected.

Thanks for the download tip - will save me some time on Thursday!


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Yeah, same with all SATA drives... SMART data, and acoustic management will only work when directly connected.
> 
> Thanks for the download tip - will save me some time on Thursday!


Hitach Feature Tool Usage Instructions


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

dwit said:


> Hitach Feature Tool Usage Instructions


So what do you recommend for acoustic management - just on, or a specific level? I think I've used 128 generally before (the min value).

Do your recommend changing any other settings, Power Management (does that make it cooler/quieter?), 3GB v 1.5GB (does the S3 support 3GB or spread spectrum?), or anything else?

Thanks again - I haven't used a Hitachi SATA drive before, only Seagate's and WD's.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> So what do you recommend for acoustic management - just on, or a specific level? I think I've used 128 generally before (the min value).
> 
> Do your recommend changing any other settings, Power Management (does that make it cooler/quieter?), 3GB v 1.5GB (does the S3 support 3GB or spread spectrum?), or anything else?
> 
> Thanks again - I haven't used a Hitachi SATA drive before, only Seagate's and WD's.


Definitely the 128. No experience with any of the other features, except scanning the drive for errors. Actually only just found out about these instructions. Wish I had them when I set up my drive, because really, I wasn't able to set the aam. Think my old via chipped mobo I was using at the time was the culprit however.

I did use it to adjust the aam on an old Maxtor, ide drive.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

Make sure to use the tool to run the FULL diagnostics on the drive. This is a good idea any time you are upgrading with a new drive, but especially if you are getting one from Newegg since they do not pack/ship their drives according to the manufacturer's specifications.

Lou


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

tivoupgrade said:


> Make sure to use the tool to run the FULL diagnostics on the drive. This is a good idea any time you are upgrading with a new drive, but especially if you are getting one from Newegg since they do not pack/ship their drives according to the manufacturer's specifications.
> 
> Lou


Yup, of course. I do this all the time with my new drives from them, and anywhere else. An annoying time sink, but necessary for all drives, no matter where purchased.

(I've had more DOA drives from BB - on sale of course - than from NewEgg, for what that's worth. And I buy a lot of hard drives, probably average one every couple of weeks.)


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## flar (Mar 18, 2003)

Buy.com has the WD10EVCS on sale for $175 now. I'll probably go with that one since it is designed for DVR applications, not so sure with the other models out there.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

My personal preference is staying away from 5-platter drives. 1TB 7K1000 has 5 platters, and the new (out yet?) 1TB 7K1000.B has 3 platters.


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## flar (Mar 18, 2003)

According to the WD specs, the WD10EVCS is a 4 platter drive - any reason to stay away from higher platter counts? A while back I was reading that single platter drives are less noisy, but given that these drives are designed for low noise (and rated highly for low noise in the FAQ), that shouldn't be a problem. I'd imagine heat might be another factor, but again, these drives are targetted at the DVR "cool running, whisper quiet" market...


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

4 platters are very common for various drive manufacturers. AFAIK, IBM/Hitachi is the only manufacturer with 5-platter drives in the past few years, and the previous 5-platter drives had over heating issues. I don't have personal experience with the 7K1000, but I think 5 platter drives are pushing the physical limits.

For internal S3, I would use the WD10EVCS. Otherwise, go with the cheaper WD10EACS. The 3-platter WD10EACS-00D6B0 uses less power and generates less heat than the original 4-platter ones. Even slightly quieter, too.


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## flar (Mar 18, 2003)

c3 said:


> For internal S3, I would use the WD10EVCS. Otherwise, go with the cheaper WD10EACS. The 3-platter WD10EACS-00D6B0 uses less power and generates less heat than the original 4-platter ones. Even slightly quieter, too.


I just had a 00D6B0 from Frys for a great price, but returned it as I was reading that the EACS-00 drives were not good for an S3, OK for TivoHD, but not for S3. But that was based in the 00ZJBO versions - is there experience to the contrary for the 00D6B0 versions?

OK, upon a second reading it looks like you are saying EVCS for the S3, but "otherwise" go with the EACS-00D6B0. Perhaps you mean "for TiVoHD or external use" when you say "otherwise"? Since I have an S3 and want to go internal I am planning on EVCS.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Nobody has reported if the D6B0 version works with S3 or not. It's easy to test if someone is opening up the S3 for upgrade anyway.

"Otherwise" == not "internal S3" == S3 external, THD internal, and THD external.


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## flar (Mar 18, 2003)

c3 said:


> Nobody has reported if the D6B0 version works with S3 or not. It's easy to test if someone is opening up the S3 for upgrade anyway.


I probably would have at least tried it if it wasn't Olympics Season. I originally got it because the amount of coverage that can be recorded in one or two days is almost as much as my S3 can handle and there have been glitches I've noticed for a few months that I worry are signs of the internal drive slowly dying.

I was hoping to do an overnight upgrade with it and be back and running as quick as possible, but if I ran into trouble I wouldn't have much time to diagnose and didn't want that much downtime - so I returned it in favor of a) getting an EVCS for not much more anyway and b) gutting it out trying to keep on top of my Olympics coverage for now and waiting until they are over to upgrade.

I would have known right away if it failed right away, but then I would have been tempted to see if there was something I could try to make it work (I'm a debugger by nature). And if it worked right away I would have been worried that the new drives might still have some undiscovered incompatibility waiting to bite me (not a good time for me to be a pioneer).

In the meantime, the occasional glitches seem to be getting more frequent as I record and watch lots of HD coverage every night which has me wishing I'd thought of this 2 weeks ago...


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

c3 said:


> Nobody has reported if the D6B0 version works with S3 or not. It's easy to test if someone is opening up the S3 for upgrade anyway.
> 
> "Otherwise" == not "internal S3" == S3 external, THD internal, and THD external.


The firmware appears to be the same as the 00 ones (it's like 01.A.01), so it's unlikely it will work.

But it would be nice to know.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

AbMagFab said:


> The firmware appears to be the same as the 00 ones (it's like 01.A.01), so it's unlikely it will work.


Firmware itself does not indicate if the drive works or not.

WD10EACS-00D6B0: 01.01A01 ???
WD10EACS-00ZJB0: 01.01B01 does not work
WD10EACS-32ZJB0: 01.01B01 works


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

I'm looking to upgrade both of my Series 3's to 1TB before the new television season starts and have found the Western Digital WD10EVCS at Buy.com for $337.98 for 2 including shipping. I'm tempted though by the Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ at NewEgg which would be $299.98 for 2 including shipping though.

I've seen a few posts where people have used the Samsung but not many. Both of my home PC's have Spinpoints in them (2 320GB and 1 500GB) which have been running fine for the past year. Should I just go ahead and pay the extra $38 for the WD's given the number of people that are using them in TiVo's?

Scott


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Make sure you understand the RMA process before buying Samsung drives.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

c3 said:


> Make sure you understand the RMA process before buying Samsung drives.


After I posted, I decided to not be so cheap and went ahead and bought the WD10EVCS drives from Buy.com. They shipped today and should be here Wednesday.

I had never looked at the Samsung RMA process (or any other really) but I see that WD offers advanced replacement where as Samsung doesn't. Was there anything else that you were referring to regarding Samsung's RMA process?

Scott


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Compared to other drive makers, Samsung has a very strange RMA policy:

http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/support/warranty/Support_Warranty.html

Typically a store does not handle problems after the initial return period. What if the store goes out of business?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

c3 said:


> Compared to other drive makers, Samsung has a very strange RMA policy:
> 
> http://www.samsung.com/global/business/hdd/support/warranty/Support_Warranty.html
> 
> Typically a store does not handle problems after the initial return period. What if the store goes out of business?


Here's the US link for warranty support for hard drives and optical drives for consumers:

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/repairpolicy/servicePolicyWarrantyHddOddExchange.do

This appears about the same as the WD standard replacement policy. Your link appears to be a global business support page.

Scott


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

Thanks for that link. If I remember correctly, the website printed on the drive is www.samsunghdd.com, which ends up at the location I listed above.


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## colin1497 (Nov 20, 2006)

I just bought the WD10EVCS for like $160 from buy.com. No need to use a utility for this one.


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## flar (Mar 18, 2003)

Another W10EVCS (from Buy.com) upgraded S3 TiVo happy camper...144/1367 with 43C internal temp (only running for an hour, though, but took it right out of my crowded SFF PC which was warm to the touch and right into the TiVo)...


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

I'm wanting a 1 TB drive too. This is a summary of what I read in this thread. Please correct me if any of this is inaccurate:

Working Drives in a TiVo Series 3:
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 (5 platters)
Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000.B (3 platters)
WD10EVCS 
WD10EACS-32ZJB0: 01.01B01

Not yet tested in TiVo Series 3:
WD10EACS-00D6B0: 01.01A01 ??? (3 platter)

Does not work in TiVo Series 3:
WD10EACS-00ZJB0: 01.01B01

It looks like the ideal drive (for me) is the WD10EACS-00D6B0: 01.01A01. Three platters, low noise, low heat, low price. I'd be willing to be the ginuea pig. At what point can you tell if it works or not? Should I use WinMFS or some other tool?


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

RickStrobel said:


> I'm wanting a 1 TB drive too. This is a summary of what I read in this thread. Please correct me if any of this is inaccurate:
> 
> Working Drives in a TiVo Series 3:
> Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 (5 platters)
> ...


The test to tell if this drive behaves as any other drive in the Series 3 model Tivo is to instruct the Tivo to restart itself from the settings menu, and *have the unit restart itself successfully*. The only drive to fail to do this so far is the -00ZJB0 model you listed above. This is the only drive that fails to do this, and why it is listed to not work in the Series 3 model Tivo only. If the only way you can cuccessfully restart the Tivo is to unplug it, and then plug back in, then it fails the test, like the -00ZJB0 unit.

The winmfs is probably easiest for most to use, and there is probably no reason not to use it.

The challenge may be in ordering the -006DB0 model. How do you know which version you will receive?

Thanks for volunteering to test the unit. I'm betting it will work.


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

dwit said:


> The challenge may be in ordering the -006DB0 model. How do you know which version you will receive?


This is very tempting:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151

$149 with free shipping. The model is WD10EACS. I guess there's no way to know if it's a 00D6B0, 00ZJB0 or 32ZJB0? Or is there?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

RickStrobel said:


> This is very tempting:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151
> 
> $149 with free shipping. The model is WD10EACS. I guess there's no way to know if it's a 00D6B0, 00ZJB0 or 32ZJB0? Or is there?


Nope.

In fact, the previous two I ordered were D6B0's, but the most recent one I received from them was a 00ZJB0. August manufacture date, too. Go figure.


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

I just ordered the EVCS from buy.com for $157.99 with free shipping.


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## flar (Mar 18, 2003)

RickStrobel said:


> It looks like the ideal drive (for me) is the WD10EACS-00D6B0: 01.01A01. Three platters, low noise, low heat, low price. I'd be willing to be the ginuea pig. At what point can you tell if it works or not? Should I use WinMFS or some other tool?


It would be a great boon to find out if these drives work as they are so much more easily come by than the WD10EVCS, though I eventually found a lower price on an EVCS than the EACS I was looking at on steep local sales, though the local buying factor would have been a big plus if the EACS works.

[removed the section on reproducing the problem as it was already explained better by someone else...]


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I know I posted this in the S3 area, but some may care..

Seagate ST31000340AS 1TB Barracuda Sata 7200 Rpm 32MB Cache 8.5MS Hard Drive

for $159.99 for a bit over 2 more hours with a Gold Box offer on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-ST31000340AS-Barracuda-Cache-8-5MS/dp/B000UC3CN0


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

Upgrade went smooth as silk. I posted this over on the winmfs forum in appreciation:

I've been upgrading TiVo's for myself and family since the beginning. All I can say is wow!

I bought a 1 TB WD10EVCS from buy.com for about $157. I used two of those little IDE/SATA to USB adapters and hooked both drives up to my XP based laptop. I let msfcopy run overnight. After about 6 hours it was done. Put the new drive in this morning and it works great.

You have to had done it the old way to really appreciate the brilliance of winmfs. No more gnashing of teeth praying that you didn't mess up and confuse hda and hdb and totally wipe out your TiVo!

Well done spike! And THANK YOU for putting the time and energy into this project!


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## eziemann (Jun 8, 2005)

Just ordered a 1.5 TB Seagate 7200.11 (ST31500341AS) for an S3 upgrade. $189.99 shipped
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337

I will hopefully get the drive before this weekend and put it through full diags.
Not too concerned if it is a little loud or if it doesn't work on the S3--I can swap it out with a 500 GB DB35 I have in the basement.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

eziemann said:


> Just ordered a 1.5 TB Seagate 7200.11 (ST31500341AS) for an S3 upgrade. $189.99 shipped
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337


Cool. I just canceled my order with Amazon, since they wanted more and couldn't get it shipped as quickly.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

Cancelled my back order from buy.com as well. Priced the same as newegg, but still apparently not shipping.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

tivoupgrade said:


> The Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 works great. Use their FeatureTool utility to adjust the acoustics and it will run the same as the CinemaStar, which is also a great drive.
> 
> We've used both without any problems at all.
> 
> Lou


I got the Hitachi Deskstar from Newegg to put in the Antec enclosure as an external fro my S3. It was DOA.

Newegg had no problem making me wait 2 weeks, after I wasted 2-3 hours trying to get it to work, as I paid them for shipping to send it back for a replacement. Ya don't even get an apology. 

The replacement worked fine, with the hiccup of a 45 minute "Please Wait" after which I powered cycled with no ill effects.

I'm back to sticking with Seagate. When Seagate ships a 1.5 - 3 TB drive I'll put that in to replace the internal.


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

netringer said:


> I got the Hitachi Deskstar from Newegg to put in the Antec enclosure as an external fro my S3. It was DOA.
> 
> Newegg had no problem making me wait 2 weeks, after I wasted 2-3 hours trying to get it to work, as I paid them for shipping to send it back for a replacement. Ya don't even get an apology.
> 
> ...


Not surprised.

We have not had good experiences with Newegg.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

tivoupgrade said:


> Not surprised.
> 
> We have not had good experiences with Newegg.


Guess we will maybe find out if they have changed the way they ship their bare drives.

I imagine they will begn shipping a lot of the new 1.5 TB Seagates they are advertising as in stock.

Should be getting a lot of reports here soon.

BTW, do you know if the 1.5 drives are compatible with Tivo?


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## tivoupgrade (Sep 27, 2000)

dwit said:


> Guess we will maybe find out if they have changed the way they ship their bare drives.
> 
> I imagine they will begn shipping a lot of the new 1.5 TB Seagates they are advertising as in stock.
> 
> ...


Hopefully, they ship 'single' drives better than orders with multiple drives. They get a lot of free press around here, so hopefully someone there has taken notice and takes the manufacturer's requirements for shipping a little more seriously (I know that my contacts at Hitachi were not happy to find out what they were doing, but I don't know if it helped any...). I think it would be the least they can do.

In any case, I don't know for sure whether the 1.5TB drives will work or not. We are still waiting for our sample Pipeline drives from Seagate but will update folks when the time comes (Pipeline is the replacement for the DB35; even higher reliability and even quieter, as well) and although I'm not 100% sure, these drives will probably not be available from places like Newegg. Still fuzzy on availability dates as they keep changing...


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

The WD drive I received came in a rather ingenious package. It was just cardboard and some clear film. The cardboard folded internally in such a way that it caused the clear film to hold the drive securely in place, inside the larger box. This looked like it came out of the factory that way.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

RickStrobel said:


> The WD drive I received came in a rather ingenious package. It was just cardboard and some clear film. The cardboard folded internally in such a way that it caused the clear film to hold the drive securely in place, inside the larger box. This looked like it came out of the factory that way.


Hopefully that's a new practice, or maybe it's just Western Digital taking precaution with their "premium" AV drive.

Historically, Newegg is known for just throwing a bare drive wrapped in bubble wrap, in a box and shipping.

Leaning toward WD taking precaution.


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## dwit (May 5, 2004)

tivoupgrade said:


> Hopefully, they ship 'single' drives better than orders with multiple drives. They get a lot of free press around here, so hopefully someone there has taken notice and takes the manufacturer's requirements for shipping a little more seriously (I know that my contacts at Hitachi were not happy to find out what they were doing, but I don't know if it helped any...). I think it would be the least they can do.
> 
> In any case, I don't know for sure whether the 1.5TB drives will work or not. We are still waiting for our sample Pipeline drives from Seagate but will update folks when the time comes (Pipeline is the replacement for the DB35; even higher reliability and even quieter, as well) and although I'm not 100% sure, these drives will probably not be available from places like Newegg. Still fuzzy on availability dates as they keep changing...


Thanks.


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## eziemann (Jun 8, 2005)

dwit said:


> Hopefully that's a new practice, or maybe it's just Western Digital taking precaution with their "premium" AV drive.
> 
> Historically, Newegg is known for just throwing a bare drive wrapped in bubble wrap, in a box and shipping.
> 
> Leaning toward WD taking precaution.


I got an WD AV-GP 750 GB drive in the same packaging earlier in the summer. I bought it as OEM from buy.com Unfortunately the drive had errors on it from the start and I RMA'ed it and sold the replacement out on eBay for a slight loss.


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## kbs (May 15, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> Do your recommend changing any other settings, Power Management (does that make it cooler/quieter?), 3GB v 1.5GB (does the S3 support 3GB or spread spectrum?), or anything else?


I'm expecting my Hitachi Deskstar in the mail today, and was also curious about this question. The drive apparently comes set to SATA 150. Should I use the feature tool to set it to SATA 300? Will that work in the Series 3 internally?

Thanks!


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## kbs (May 15, 2004)

(ok, answering my own question...  )

The 250gb WD original drive in my Series 3 uses jumpers for enabling SSC, and for limiting the drive to 150. Neither jumper was enabled, which leads me to believe that the S3 runs at ATA/300, without SSC.

(One drawback of the Hitachi Deskstar drives is that they are jumperless. If you use the Feature Tool to enable ATA/300 or SSC on a system that doesn't support it, the drive can become unusable in that system and you then can't use the tool to undo the change.)

I used the Hitachi Feature Tool to enable ATA/300 support (and no SSC) on my Deskstar drive, and after a backup/restore from the WD250 it seems to be working happily in my S3.

With ATA/300 enabled, connected to SATA connectors on the motherboard on a 2.2ghz Core2Duo machine, I was getting about 31MB/s transfer and a 2-hour backup/restore time.


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## jeffk_1138 (Oct 23, 2006)

Thanks for posting your results. I have the same drive and a similar system for backup. You've saved me guesswork!


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## samhande (Sep 13, 2008)

RickStrobel said:


> Upgrade went smooth as silk. I posted this over on the winmfs forum in appreciation:
> 
> I've been upgrading TiVo's for myself and family since the beginning. All I can say is wow!
> 
> ...


Rick, I want to do what you did! I was wondering if I needed to get additional power to the upgrade drive and the TiVo drive when using the little USB to Sata adapters? Which adapter did you use? Thanks...
Sam


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## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

samhande said:


> Rick, I want to do what you did! I was wondering if I needed to get additional power to the upgrade drive and the TiVo drive when using the little USB to Sata adapters? Which adapter did you use? Thanks...
> Sam


I have two adapters that are very similar to this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812232002

Each has it's own little power supply. These drives need more power than what a USB port can provide.


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## JacquesAshe (Jan 24, 2002)

flar said:


> It would be a great boon to find out if these drives work as they are so much more easily come by than the WD10EVCS, though I eventually found a lower price on an EVCS than the EACS I was looking at on steep local sales, though the local buying factor would have been a big plus if the EACS works.
> 
> [removed the section on reproducing the problem as it was already explained better by someone else...]


Just tried using a WD10EACS-65D6B0 (Aug 25th) as a primary drive in my Series 3 without success.


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