# TDC240 Blinking orange-green - No boot



## antalo (May 9, 2001)

I was readingabout how some people got screwed by uying Tivos on fleabhay which had outstanding bills on them and folks couldn't activate them without paying up, so I just wondered if the one I just cannibalized taking out the bracket to instal my new drive into the other Tivo, and checked to see what the status of it was with Tivo. To my surprise I discovered that it was one of my own with lifetime sub on it. I bought several on fleabay way back. I forgot all about this one. I hooked it up, and the left light was flashing green and orange, but mainly orange. There was no video on the tv except one flicker right at the beginning. Disconnecting the hard drive didn't make any difference. Checked the voltage going to the hd and it was 5 VDC and 11.8 VDC. Didn't see any burned or smelly components. Re-seated the white ribbon cables. Did't clean the contacts with alcohol yet. I hope this box can be saved. Appreciate any and all help.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> I was readingabout how some people got screwed by uying Tivos on fleabhay which had outstanding bills on them and folks couldn't activate them without paying up, so I just wondered if the one I just cannibalized taking out the bracket to instal my new drive into the other Tivo, and checked to see what the status of it was with Tivo. To my surprise I discovered that it was one of my own with lifetime sub on it. I bought several on fleabay way back. I forgot all about this one. I hooked it up, and the left light was flashing green and orange, but mainly orange. There was no video on the tv except one flicker right at the beginning. Disconnecting the hard drive didn't make any difference. Checked the voltage going to the hd and it was 5 VDC and 11.8 VDC. Didn't see any burned or smelly components. Re-seated the white ribbon cables. Did't clean the contacts with alcohol yet. I hope this box can be saved. Appreciate any and all help.


"I did start a new thread. Would a PS from a TDC540 worj in the TDC240 ? "

The 240xxx and 540xxx power supplies are semi-interchangeable.

I think it's the 540 supply that doesn't have as much total output available and is less suitable for a 2 drive setup, but the pinout on the cable that connects the power supply and the motherboard is the same and you can swap them for testing purposes.

If you have a working 540 supply, put it in that 240 and see what happens, although remember the 240's hard drive has to be working properly as well.

Do not swap hard drives between TiVos.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> "I did start a new thread. Would a PS from a TDC540 worj in the TDC240 ? "
> 
> The 240xxx and 540xxx power supplies are semi-interchangeable.
> 
> ...


I got the original drive from this box. I took the bracket out of it to put into the 540. I may have another 240, I have to look. It will take some time and may not get back until the morning.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

It didn't take as long as I thought. Unfortunately it does the same thing. I do have another TDC240 . I thought it was a S1. Tomorrow I take out the PS from a 540 and will see, but I'm afraid I ran out of luck with this one. Is there another option ? Thank You !


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

antalo said:


> It didn't take as long as I thought. Unfortunately it does the same thing. I do have another TDC240 . I thought it was a S1. Tomorrow I take out the PS from a 540 and will see, but I'm afraid I ran out of luck with this one. Is there another option ? Thank You !


If you have two 240s, you might try swapping the lifetime MB into the other box. That would eliminate the possibility of something like a front panel issue. You should get the intial startup screen before it ever accesses the hard drive.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

lillevig said:


> If you have two 240s, you might try swapping the lifetime MB into the other box. That would eliminate the possibility of something like a front panel issue. You should get the intial startup screen before it ever accesses the hard drive.


Thank You lillevig, I'll do that. I was thinking about the display panel, but not about swapping the MB. It's still hot in San Antone too. 

P.S. It didn't take that long to swap board, but unfortunately it didn't help. The left light is still flickering. That leaves out the display panel also. Is it the MB ?

Weakyleaks and DVR Upgrade both want $150.- to repair. Flat fee. Can't really afford it. What do you think ?


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## lillevig (Dec 7, 2010)

antalo said:


> Thank You lillevig, I'll do that. I was thinking about the display panel, but not about swapping the MB. It's still hot in San Antone too.
> 
> P.S. It didn't take that long to swap board, but unfortunately it didn't help. The left light is still flickering. That leaves out the display panel also. Is it the MB ?
> 
> Weakyleaks and DVR Upgrade both want $150.- to repair. Flat fee. Can't really afford it. What do you think ?


Sounds like the MB. A replacement 240 with lifetime is much less than $150.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

0ut of curiosity I put the other MB back and turned it on with the hd. I was hoping it would boot up, but I only got the initial gray screen with it's welcoming msg. and it just sits there. The display light is on and it's green. Could this MB be bad too ? or both power supplys could be bad ? Can this board be saved ?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> 0ut of curiosity I put the other MB back and turned it on with the hd. I was hoping it would boot up, but I only got the initial gray screen with it's welcoming msg. and it just sits there. The display light is on and it's green. Could this MB be bad too ? or both power supplys could be bad ? Can this board be saved ?


A gray screen is often the result of failure, or partial failure, for whatever reason, of communication between the motherboard and the hard drive.

Generally if the motherboard can't find the hard drive at all, it just sits there on the welcome screen that's built into the motherboard.

If there's something wrong with the hard drive it reboots.

If the situation falls somewhere in between those two condiditions, it grayscreens.

I think.

Double check all of your connections, and don't assume the power is good without checking it with an oscilloscope or at least a good voltmeter.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> A gray screen is often the result of failure, or partial failure, for whatever reason, of communication between the motherboard and the hard drive.
> 
> Generally if the motherboard can't find the hard drive at all, it just sits there on the welcome screen that's built into the motherboard.
> 
> ...


The hard drive is good, at least it was when I was working on the other Tivos. I changed 3 diff cables, The result is the same. I also found out that this one also has lifetime service on it. I think alzheimers must be creeping up on me, because I'm so forgetful, can't remember things the next second. I can't imagine why I would let 2 lifetime Tivos waste away.

Any ideas what could be the problem with this one ? I'm not confused, I'm  at myself. Thanks for your help ! !


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> The hard drive is good, at least it was when I was working on the other Tivos. I changed 3 diff cables, The result is the same. I also found out that this one also has lifetime service on it. I think alzheimers must be creeping up on me, because I'm so forgetful, can't remember things the next second. I can't imagine why I would let 2 lifetime Tivos waste away.
> 
> Any ideas what could be the problem with this one ? I'm not confused, I'm  at myself. Thanks for your help ! !


Do you have any known good hard drives that aren't in use at the moment?


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> Do you have any known good hard drives that aren't in use at the moment?


I checked this drive with WD diag and Winmsf and it checks good. It worked the last time I had it in the 240 I got a new drive in. I could take that drive out and put it into this one.

P.S.
I'm crossing everything I got, fingrs, legs, eyes, etc....... took the drive out of the one working, the WD drive, put it in and right now it says "Almost there ......."

Hopefully it will get there ! !

P.P.S. It got there ! !  I got Tivo Central up, but it said there is a harware problem, so it wont let me do anything. I could do a Clear & Delete everything, but I don't think we need to do that. I have to get another hd. Newegg got a 1 TB for $70.- delivered. I can't believe I tried to use a bad drive. How did it get bad ? I'll have to see if I can get it re-loaded with an image. At least one is saved thanks to you. ! !


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> I checked this drive with WD diag and Winmsf and it checks good. It worked the last time I had it in the 240 I got a new drive in. I could take that drive out and put it into this one.


Okay, I'm starting to get confused.

How many TiVos do you have?

What are their model numbers?

How many are currently working properly?

For how many do you still have the original drive, even if you've replaced it with a bigger one?

Do you have any other drives not currently in use besides drives taken out of TiVos?


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> Okay, I'm starting to get confused.
> 
> How many TiVos do you have?
> 
> ...


 The ones from Tivo are all activated.

The original 40 GB Maxtor is right now getting cleared and deleted. I reloaded an image on it and it booted up with the old original drive.

That leaves me with 2 TDC 240-s with lifetime not working. One with the flickering left front light and the other one . . . . now I don't remember right now. The one we determined it was the MB.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> The ones from Tivo are all activated.
> 
> The original 40 GB Maxtor is right now getting cleared and deleted. I reloaded an image on it and it booted up with the old original drive.
> 
> That leaves me with 2 TDC 240-s with lifetime not working. One with the flickering left front light and the other one . . . . now I don't remember right now. The one we determined it was the MB.


If you have more than one TCD240xxx, then if one of them has a working hard drive on which you do not have recordings you need to save, then that's your test drive.

Put it in the problem TiVo, if it gets beyond the welcome screen it'll probably complain about not being in the TiVo with the same TSN, but it'll call it something like error 51 or hardware problem.

If it doesn't get that far, swap in a power supply from a 240 that's working.

And is there any chance you ever powered up the problem TiVo with the front panel ribbon cable even the least bit not fully and properly seated into the thing on the motherboard? Maybe you bumped it taking a drive out and dislodged it just a hair?

If it truly is a motherboard problem, the crypto chip from a lifetimed board can be moved to a non-lifetimed 240 board by someone who knows what they're doing with surface mount devices.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

I guess I was wrong. I got only one TDC 240 left non-operational. It's the one with the blinking left front light. 
The one which would not get out of the Welcome screen is weird, or there is still something wrong with it. I had the WD drive in there the 1.5 TB and it booted up no problem. Than I re-loaded the image on the original Maxtor 4GB drive and it booted up fine. Before it did not with the same drive. I had a Samsung HD154as SATA drive, but I don't know why it came out of the TDC 649 box. Anyway Idecided to load it with the image and install it. The imaging went fine, but when I put in to the box, it didn't get out the Welcome screen and on the SATA adapter the red light was pretty bright and steady. I unplugged the box right away, put the original drive back in and it booted up fine. It's still running. That Samsung drive must be bad somewhere. I got one 1TB drive coming in 3 days, so until than I'll take a brake and get all the Tivos hooked up. The problem now is the remote activation. 2 boxes per remote. It's a pain in the butt to program them properly. I'll have turn them all off and work with one at a time and turn them off again untill all are programmed. I tried to cover up the sensors, but it doesn't work to good. 
You said the crypto chip from the bad board would need to be moved to another board Which one is that ? The one with Tivo on it ? Is this how weaknees repairs them too ? Isn't there a way to find out what actually is the problem and fix it ?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> I guess I was wrong. I got only one TDC 240 left non-operational. It's the one with the blinking left front light.
> The one which would not get out of the Welcome screen is weird, or there is still something wrong with it. I had the WD drive in there the 1.5 TB and it booted up no problem. Than I re-loaded the image on the original Maxtor 4GB drive and it booted up fine. Before it did not with the same drive. I had a Samsung HD154as SATA drive, but I don't know why it came out of the TDC 649 box. Anyway Idecided to load it with the image and install it. The imaging went fine, but when I put in to the box, it didn't get out the Welcome screen and on the SATA adapter the red light was pretty bright and steady. I unplugged the box right away, put the original drive back in and it booted up fine. It's still running. That Samsung drive must be bad somewhere. I got one 1TB drive coming in 3 days, so until than I'll take a brake and get all the Tivos hooked up. The problem now is the remote activation. 2 boxes per remote. It's a pain in the butt to program them properly. I'll have turn them all off and work with one at a time and turn them off again untill all are programmed. I tried to cover up the sensors, but it doesn't work to good.
> You said the crypto chip from the bad board would need to be moved to another board Which one is that ? The one with Tivo on it ? Is this how weaknees repairs them too ? Isn't there a way to find out what actually is the problem and fix it ?


I have no idea what Weaknees does, but the manufacturer name on the crypto chip is Atmel.

When you and your magnifying glass find an IC with that name on it, write down the part number on it and Google it to see if it's some sort of write-once encoder-decoder kind of thing just in case there's more than one chip on the board made by Atmel.

But if you've never worked with surface mount devices before, this isn't where you want to start learning, and you never do a transplant unless you're sure the problem with a lifetimed unit is the motherboard and it can't be fixed.

Series 1 and Series 2 Tivos shouldn't be expected to work with drives larger than 1TB.

Describe your SATA/IDE adapter.

Model or part number on the front or back?

Any jumpers?

What's the name of the maker of the main chipset on it?


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> I have no idea what Weaknees does, but the manufacturer name on the crypto chip is Atmel.
> 
> When you and your magnifying glass find an IC with that name on it, write down the part number on it and Google it to see if it's some sort of write-once encoder-decoder kind of thing just in case there's more than one chip on the board made by Atmel.
> 
> ...


I found the Atmel chip, but I can't read the numbers. To small. I wouldn't be dreaming taking that or any chip out myself. 
About the adapter I already told you about. I just got 2 from WoW . They are the same as my old ones in use. http://www.wowparts.com/pata-to-sata-adapter-converter-for-2-5-3-5-hdd-dvd/ It does have one set of jumpers.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> I found the Atmel chip, but I can't read the numbers. To small. I wouldn't be dreaming taking that or any chip out myself.
> About the adapter I already told you about. I just got 2 from WoW . They are the same as my old ones in use. http://www.wowparts.com/pata-to-sata-adapter-converter-for-2-5-3-5-hdd-dvd/ It does have one set of jumpers.


Okay, swap those adapters around to make sure you didn't get one they missed a solder joint on, but that model adapter is not the source of your problem.

Any chance you bumped and tore loose a small capacitor on the motherboard getting that bracket out?

That's sort of how I wound up having to transplant an S2 DT crypto chip.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> Okay, swap those adapters around to make sure you didn't get one they missed a solder joint on, but that model adapter is not the source of your problem.
> 
> Any chance you bumped and tore loose a small capacitor on the motherboard getting that bracket out?
> 
> ...


I have to take a break from searching a program to format the Seagate and Samsung drives. You are not going to believe what happened. I'm talking about the hard drives now. To refresh your memory, I hope it's better than mine, only the original WD drive would work in the TDC240. I had a 500GB WD drive which was in an external drive config and it quit on me. It was loaded with the 240 image, but would not boot up , just the grey welcome screen. To rule out the power supply, I connected the power from my PC and just the data cable from the Tivo. It did the same thing. Than I thought, the drive is already screwed up (?) so let's try to reformat it. I was able to do a low level format with the WD stuff. It did only 137GB . I loaded the TDC240 image with WinMSF put it in and I could not believe my eyes when it booted up. It's cooking now for a few hours. Called in, set it up, etc.
Now I've been looking for hours for a pgm to format the above drives. The Seagate Disk I got must be an old one, because it looks for a scasi and/or AT drives and would not recognize these two. Seagate got Samsung too, but I was unable to find the program. just BS whitepapers and other BS and I was going in circles. The WD prgm wouldn't touch the Seagate drive. 
Going back to search & frustrate ! !


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> I have to take a break from searching a program to format the Seagate and Samsung drives. You are not going to believe what happened. I'm talking about the hard drives now. To refresh your memory, I hope it's better than mine, only the original WD drive would work in the TDC240. I had a 500GB WD drive which was in an external drive config and it quit on me. It was loaded with the 240 image, but would not boot up , just the grey welcome screen. To rule out the power supply, I connected the power from my PC and just the data cable from the Tivo. It did the same thing. Than I thought, the drive is already screwed up (?) so let's try to reformat it. I was able to do a low level format with the WD stuff. It did only 137GB . I loaded the TDC240 image with WinMSF put it in and I could not believe my eyes when it booted up. It's cooking now for a few hours. Called in, set it up, etc.
> Now I've been looking for hours for a pgm to format the above drives. The Seagate Disk I got must be an old one, because it looks for a scasi and/or AT drives and would not recognize these two. Seagate got Samsung too, but I was unable to find the program. just BS whitepapers and other BS and I was going in circles. The WD prgm wouldn't touch the Seagate drive.
> Going back to search & frustrate ! !


Let me see what I can do about finding you somewhere from which to download those mfrs diagnostics.

I'll PM you in an hour or 3.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> Let me see what I can do about finding you somewhere from which to download those mfrs diagnostics.
> 
> I'll PM you in an hour or 3.


I think I found it ! ! ! ! 

http://www.butterscotch.com/tutorial/How-To-Format-A-Drive-In-Windows?src=splr

It's right in windows. I'm formatting now. Disk Management - -> Initialize 
It's not that simple. If you don't know, you never find it on your own. Talking about myself of course I don't know how long it will take and then will see if it's going to work.

P.S.
Under the pix, NOTES: gives step by step in writing.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> I think I found it ! ! ! !
> 
> http://www.butterscotch.com/tutorial/How-To-Format-A-Drive-In-Windows?src=splr
> 
> ...


If the drive is going into a TiVo, formatting it for Windows, or formatting it to use in a computer in general, is unneccessary, as putting the TiVo image on the drive will overwrite all of that formatting.

I thought you were trying to find the various manufacturer's diagnostic software, which ignores formatting and analyzes the drive at a lower level than that.

If you want to format the drive to put in a computer to use the TiVo Desktop program to copy shows from the TiVo to the computer, format the drive as one big NTFS partition.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

unitron said:


> If the drive is going into a TiVo, formatting it for Windows, or formatting it to use in a computer in general, is unneccessary, as putting the TiVo image on the drive will overwrite all of that formatting.
> 
> I thought you were trying to find the various manufacturer's diagnostic software, which ignores formatting and analyzes the drive at a lower level than that.
> 
> If you want to format the drive to put in a computer to use the TiVo Desktop program to copy shows from the TiVo to the computer, format the drive as one big NTFS partition.


Maybe I didn't explain myself clear enough. The drive I got working this morning got formatted using the WD DOS diagnostics. I think something got screwed up on the drive and it prevented it to boot up in the Tivo. I know all that you are saying, about the image over writes everythng, but ........ I don't know ! ! ........ It worked with one drive, will see if it works with this one. This is a Seagate 1,5 TB and I won't forget to limit it to 1 TB. It's 60% formatted now. It will probably take another hour.


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

It's another day and another problem, or puzzle. 
My theory didn't work. I don't know if the Seagate got formatted or not, because Win Explore didn't recognize it Making a long story short, I loaded the TDC540 image into the drive, got one of my spare 540 put the drive in and prayed. (Not really) It did boot up, got to the setup screen and I let it call in to get the setup started. 
Now why would it work in the 540 and not in the 240 ? Im really  here. I thought maybe the image I got got corrupted, so I downloaded a "fresh" copy, loaded it into the drive, hooked it up to the TDC 240 and it did the same thing. The red light gets real bright and stays that way. The light on the adapter, not on the Tivo. The drive in the TDC240 right is a 500 GB WD. Maybe the Tivo doesn't like Seagate ? I did swap the adapters, but that didn't help either. I hae to eat something before my blood sugar gets too low and pass out......


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## antalo (May 9, 2001)

Since I'm in the testing moode, I decided to check if I can get 2 drives installed in the TDC540, since both of the drives were working in it. Hooked up both drives to the sec IDE cable in my XP Home PC. Took the jumper off from the center connector's adapter or slave setting. After powering up the PC and the initial red lights on the adapters briefly came on indicating to me that the PC read the drives (recognized). As soon as the PC went into boot mode, both adapters red lights came on brightly, indicating to me, it's not working. Put the jumper back on the adapter on the midle connector, auf course after shutting the PC off, Each time I do something to the drives or adapters the PC is getting turned off, removing power from the drives and adapters. These adapters supposedly should work in the master - slave config. 
I booted up with one drive in the middle with the jumper on on the adapter. When the PC initially reads the drives in the CMOS or BIOS it reads the drives position as Sec. Master, not slave. With the jumper on the adapter off, the red led is constantly on, so that doesn't work either.

Conclusion : No 2 drive set up with these adapters in the TDC 540xxx

Assumption about these drives and the TDC240 Both of these drives Samsung & Seagate are ATA 133 and I assume they don't work in the TDC240s. I got the Samsung HD154UI humming along in the TDC540.

I like to hear if anybody successfully installed 2 SATA drives in the same TDC240 xxxx and/or TDC540 xxxx TiVos and what adapters were used, These adapters was I using : http://www.wowparts.com/pata-to-sata-adapter-converter-for-2-5-3-5-hdd-dvd/


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

antalo said:


> Since I'm in the testing moode, I decided to check if I can get 2 drives installed in the TDC540, since both of the drives were working in it. Hooked up both drives to the sec IDE cable in my XP Home PC. Took the jumper off from the center connector's adapter or slave setting. After powering up the PC and the initial red lights on the adapters briefly came on indicating to me that the PC read the drives (recognized). As soon as the PC went into boot mode, both adapters red lights came on brightly, indicating to me, it's not working. Put the jumper back on the adapter on the midle connector, auf course after shutting the PC off, Each time I do something to the drives or adapters the PC is getting turned off, removing power from the drives and adapters. These adapters supposedly should work in the master - slave config.
> I booted up with one drive in the middle with the jumper on on the adapter. When the PC initially reads the drives in the CMOS or BIOS it reads the drives position as Sec. Master, not slave. With the jumper on the adapter off, the red led is constantly on, so that doesn't work either.
> 
> Conclusion : No 2 drive set up with these adapters in the TDC 540xxx
> ...


I was under the assumption that ATA-133 was strictly a PATA/IDE thing, and not SATA.

Of course, to do ATA-133, one must use an 80 conductor 40 connector IDE cable, and those cables are set up to do cable select rather than master/slave.

The IDE controller expects the drive on the middle (gray) connector to be the slave and the drive on the black end connector to be the master.

If one uses the older 40 conductor, 40 connector IDE cable, then even on a motherboard that can do ATA-133 one won't get it, because the correct pin isn't grounded to tell the controller the right kind of cable is present.

Also, with the 40/40 cable, you have to jumper for master/slave (unless you have one of those rare cable select cables with an actual hole punched into the cable).

Whether a particular model TiVo's power supply is up to providing the current necessary to power 2 drives instead of one is a separate question.


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