# New TiVo Series 3 Fall 2007 Software Update:



## GrantParkGuy (Nov 29, 2006)

I just got a new service update for Fall 2007. The software version is now 9.1.L5. The main improvement TiVo promotes with it is superior wish list functionality.

Anyone else get this update? More impressions later...

- William


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## riddick21 (Dec 12, 2006)

you think they fixed the pixelation issues?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

It is supposed to have Crestron integration but not sure how many people will be set up to verify that.

http://customersupport.tivo.com/Lau...-1710-40e4-89b9-425e7c69dcb1&anchor=undefined


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## Ilene (Dec 26, 2001)

You're not a beta tester are you? If you are the TiVo "police" will yank this.


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## GrantParkGuy (Nov 29, 2006)

Not a beta tester... that I know of. ;-)

- William


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Interesting - how did you get it?

I just forced a connection and I don't have it.

_Update:_
Forced another connection and now have a service update installing on my Series 3. Ditto on my Series 2 DT box.


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## GrantParkGuy (Nov 29, 2006)

I just noticed I had a "Pending Restart" when I got home today. I only noticed that because my To Do List did not seem to go out as far as it normally does. So, I was going to check my network connections.

So, I did a manual restart, after more than an hour, it announced it had installed the Fall 2007 update. That was that.

- William


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

GrantParkGuy said:


> I just got a new service update for Fall 2007. The software version is now 9.1.L5. The main improvement TiVo promotes with it is superior wish list functionality.


Jumping from 8.3 to 9.1, the changes must be more substantial than just a WishList improvement.

This sounds like a limited random post-beta release, which means the rollout should be pretty close.


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## brermike (Jun 1, 2006)

I wonder if this release will synch up the original Series 3 and the TiVo HD software. I love software updates!


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Welcome to the forums "GrantParkGuy". I see that this is your first posts here since you registered almost a year ago. 

Are you pulling our leg?


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## chuvak (Jul 22, 2006)

I also got the update. Noticed it before i left for work this morning.


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## joelkfla (Feb 9, 2002)

Mine is installing now.

Maybe this is the software update for TTG & MRV, but they won't be activated until they flip the switch on the System Info screen?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

So what is new with the update?


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## joelkfla (Feb 9, 2002)

Advanced WishLists!

- Multiple Keywords and/or Title Keywords
- Multiple Actors and Directors
- Any combination of Title Keywords, Keywords, Actors, Directors, and Category in a single WishList
- Negated, Optional, or Mandatory terms
- User-defined name for a WishList

For example, you could define a WishList for movies with Sally Fields but without Burt Reynolds.

Cool stuff!

Edit: Received the same update on my S2 at the same time, so this is a global update, not S3-specific.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

This must be for real (or a really big mistake) - my series 3 and series 2 both now have 9.1.L5 on them. 

Been wanting smarter WLs for some time now - wonder what else is new?


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## jsnow789 (Sep 29, 2003)

Both my S2 and S3 were upgraded last night too!

Now just turn on MRV and I'll be a happy camper!


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## Ron Tobin (May 13, 2004)

I just forced a connection, however no update for me. Still at same 8.3.


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## pusta (Aug 2, 2007)

Did the Tivo HD get this update as well?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

My Series3 got it. Does it add MCard functionality?


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## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Should I look for update on my Series 2 (240) TIVO as well???


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## bilbo (Dec 7, 2004)

Caine-Hackman!



joelkfla said:


> Advanced WishLists!
> 
> - Multiple Keywords and/or Title Keywords
> - Multiple Actors and Directors
> ...


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## JacksTiVo (Jan 7, 2006)

I checked www.tivo.com/priority and there is no information with respect to 9.1. I forced a connection with my S3 & S2 this AM and no updates.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

must be a top secret update only a select few get...


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## d_anders (Oct 12, 2000)

Dr_Diablo said:


> must be a top secret update only a select few get...


Usually the Spring and Fall Updates, when they first come out, are limited to x% of the unit population to determine if there are any adverse impacts to customer service, etc.

At the time of my posting, it's still before business hours in California, so I expect TiVoPony or someone else to make an announcement sometime today regarding it.


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## ncbagwell (Feb 15, 2005)

joelkfla said:


> Advanced WishLists!
> 
> - Negated, Optional, or Mandatory terms
> 
> ...


Woo Hoo!! This is exactly the feature I have been waiting on! I am a big UNC fan and want to get all of the football and basketball stuff. However, my "NORTH CAROLINA" Sports/Basketball or Sports/Football WishLists also pick up all of the North Carolina State crap I don't want. This is great. Can't wait to get the update and play around with it.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

bilbo said:


> Caine-Hackman!


this would make a great tool for doing thesis if your not majoring in game boy


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## MurrayJimW (Apr 21, 2004)

ncbagwell said:


> Woo Hoo!! This is exactly the feature I have been waiting on! I am a big UNC fan and want to get all of the football and basketball stuff. However, my "NORTH CAROLINA" Sports/Basketball or Sports/Football WishLists also pick up all of the North Carolina State crap I don't want. This is great. Can't wait to get the update and play around with it.


Wow! I have the exact opposite problem......

I get all the UNC crap.....


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## GrantParkGuy (Nov 29, 2006)

One thing I have noticed so far is that TiVoCast downloads seems much faster to me. That looks like a very nice improvement. It used to take forever to get the longer episodes.

- William


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## miller890 (Feb 15, 2002)

No Tivo Priority Release this time....that's different.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

We got the Fall 2007 update on our S2. Still waiting for it on our S3 boxes.

deb


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## Solver (Feb 17, 2005)

Some of the things in the new update:

Enchanced Wishlists
Multiroom viewing for TiVo HD and S3 (needs to be enabled by TiVo*)
Crestron Integration for S3
Improvement in Emergency Alert Handling
Bug fixes​
*By End of November.

Disclaimer: I can say that I'm am not in any Tivo Beta program since I'm not in any TiVo Beta program. If I were in a Beta program, I could not say that I was or wasn't.


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

I wonder if there will be any fixes for ""Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another TV input" message issues?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

tase2 said:


> I wonder if there will be any fixes for ""Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another TV input" message issues?


I am not aware of any such issues.

Some older Sony HDTVs have a bugged firmware that must be fixed before it will work reliably with most modern HDMI devices. I'm not sure there is anything Tivo can do about that.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

tase2 said:


> I wonder if there will be any fixes for ""Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another TV input" message issues?


What is the make and model of your TV? Mine is a Sony R60XBR1 (a 60" Sony SXRD HDTV) and I get that from time to time. I have to switch to another input and then back to fix it.

I am having issues with my SXRD's picture (the optical block issue that many have experienced and why Sony extended the OB warranty until next year) so I might see if they can update the firmware on my TV as well when I have them fix it.


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## drosoph (Mar 21, 2000)

Multiroom viewing for TIvo HD and S3 (needs to be enabled)

Enabled where? They haven't opened up the ALLOW TRANSFERS box for S3's on tivo.com/manage yet ???

Can you access you S3 now via http://tivoIP:443 ???

Anybody ever notice my Feature Request wishlist in my sig: Boolean Searches ... Check that baby OFF !!!


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> I am not aware of any such issues.
> 
> Some older Sony HDTVs have a bugged firmware that must be fixed before it will work reliably with most modern HDMI devices. I'm not sure there is anything Tivo can do about that.


I don not want to hijack this thread, and I was in the process of bumping an old thread on the subject, so if anyone has any ideas on this please visit the "Viewing is not permitted using the HDMI port..." thread.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

See TiVoJerry's post here at post#6


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## dolfer (Nov 3, 2000)

George Cifranci said:


> What is the make and model of your TV? Mine is a Sony R60XBR1 (a 60" Sony SXRD HDTV) and I get that from time to time. I have to switch to another input and then back to fix it.
> 
> I am having issues with my SXRD's picture (the optical block issue that many have experienced and why Sony extended the OB warranty until next year) so I might see if they can update the firmware on my TV as well when I have them fix it.


George, what are some of your optical block symptoms? Sometimes the reds on my SXRD 60A2020 can look too strong. However, I have yet to do a serious calibration on my set. Just using presets and have copied others settings from AVSForum.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

TiVo where is the priority list for this puppy??? Hook a brother up!!!


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## larrs (May 2, 2005)

Just got it on my S3 but not my S2s so it truly must be a random TSN type thing...


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## OC7 (Nov 17, 2006)

Got the update on my S3 this morning. The expanded wishlist search functionality is very useful. I noticed a bug, though, when I was trying it out.

In some cases, when you "View upcoming programs" for a Wishlist Search, the total number of matches that it says it found on the first page is incorrect.

For example, I have a Wishlish Search with a Keyword of "concert" and a Category of "Arts/Music". When I did a "View upcoming programs", it said there were 45 matching programs. When I scrolled through the list of all of the matches, there were only 23 programs. The strange thing is that when I went back and tried the "View upcoming programs" again after scrolling through the list, it said that there were 23 matching programs (the correct number).


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## Globular (Jun 9, 2004)

eSATA?


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## cr33p (Jan 2, 2005)

Globular said:


> eSATA?


Esata was enabled with the last update, granted you have to pull the drive to marry the two together.


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## drosoph (Mar 21, 2000)

cr33p said:


> Esata was enabled with the last update, granted you have to pull the drive to marry the two together.


I wouldn't consider that exactly "enabled". "Enabled" will be when they allow a drive to be plugged into the eSATA port and VOILA!


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> TiVo where is the priority list for this puppy??? Hook a brother up!!!


Last time they did a S3 update, there was no priority list because the S3 population is so small. I suspect even adding the TiVo HDs the population may still be small enough to not warrant a priority list.


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## GrantParkGuy (Nov 29, 2006)

Well, sadly, here is my first bug report:

When you are clearing out unwanted "Wishlist" programs in your "To Do List", the guide jumps randomly back towards the top of the list instead of staying near the date and time you deleted the program.

Very annoying.

Cheers!

- William


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

pkscout said:


> Last time they did a S3 update, there was no priority list because the S3 population is so small. I suspect even adding the TiVo HDs the population may still be small enough to not warrant a priority list.





debtoine said:


> We got the Fall 2007 update on our S2. Still waiting for it on our S3 boxes.
> 
> deb


this thread includes S2 DVRs that are getting the update.


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## GBK33 (Sep 22, 2007)

WTH? I've got 2 Series3 units, and no service update on either. Did you guys do a manual update or just let it run on it's own?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

TiVo uses "the more you want it the slower you get it algorithm" to select who gets the update. People have complained about this for a long time and they get their updates even slower. Eventually they gave up.


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## drew00001 (Jan 13, 2007)

OC7 said:


> I noticed a bug, though, when I was trying it out.
> 
> In some cases, when you "View upcoming programs" for a Wishlist Search, the total number of matches that it says it found on the first page is incorrect.


This does not seem like a bug. It seems more like TiVo is processing the information slow . . . it does that . . . Sorry.

After forcing a call to the mothership, new program informatioin always shows up in the guide before it shows up in "view upcoming programs" (in season passes) or the "To Do" list.

This delayed behavior is especially true when I am playing with the menus. . .


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## hsfjr (Apr 14, 2002)

"Preparing the service update. This may take up to an hour, possibly longer."

But TiVo is standing there smiling at me, with the fantastic orange sunrise background...

(and my Series2 [240] has 9.1.L5 already from last night...)

Now, how about some of 'dat fancy Web2.0 stuff, and let me drag and drop my wishlists (etc.) from one unit to the other via the web... sucks enough entering the 63 position random character key to the wireless network ia the remote.

Ooohhh.. hasn't been an hour... but it's done...!


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## TivoK2 (Oct 13, 2002)

I got my update today and one thing people are not mentioning (yet it jumped out at me immediately):

-They have made the entire interface look more '3D'

It practically oozes crispness like a Mac OSX interface - it looks gorgeous. Very noticeable in all the menus and selection bars.


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## hsfjr (Apr 14, 2002)

Hmmm... perhaps a problem with remote control address settings... 99&44/100% sure I had S2 and S3 set differently from each other)... been slowly re-keying ("re-remoting"?) the SPs and WLs... both boxes now indicate Remote Address=2 (on System Info)... and both seem to respond to either remote with switch on either setting, so acting more like Remote Address=0... also saw the S2 indicate Remote Address=1 and =0 at various points of navigating around... will have to re-do the remote setting procedure from book tomorrow to see how much of an issue it is... 

Very unusual... now they both say RemoteAddress=1... and I didn't change anything... and now they both say 2 again... sometimes respond to older remote... sometimes not...

Sleep now... diagnose later...


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

miller890 said:


> No Tivo Priority Release this time....that's different.


No, they're still in the 'early test release' phase right now - that comes *before* the Priority list sign up.

Situation normal.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

If you're in the system information screen, any remote set to any address will work that screen and change the TiVo to that code.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

hsfjr said:


> Hmmm... perhaps a problem with remote control address settings... 99&44/100% sure I had S2 and S3 set differently from each other)... been slowly re-keying ("re-remoting"?) the SPs and WLs... both boxes now indicate Remote Address=2 (on System Info)...


If you have any remote set to '0' then *all* TiVos will listen to that remote, no matter what they've been set for. '0' is the universal address. A TiVo set to '0' listens to all remotes, and a remote set to '0' controls all TiVos.

If you've been using both TiVos simultaneously, then note that all you have to do is go into the System Info screen on a TiVo and hit *any* button on a remote and the box switches to that remote address. So you want to avoid going into that screen and leaving it there, then hitting buttons on the other unit's remote - or you'll map them to the same address and have lots of fun.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

TivoK2 said:


> I got my update today and one thing people are not mentioning (yet it jumped out at me immediately):
> 
> -They have made the entire interface look more '3D'
> 
> It practically oozes crispness like a Mac OSX interface - it looks gorgeous. Very noticeable in all the menus and selection bars.


That sounds like the look the Series 3 has had since its release. I'm guessing you have a Series 2?


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## StuffOfInterest (Jul 18, 2007)

Has anyone seen the 9.1 release show up on a TiVo HD? If they have, this would confirm that TiVo has merged the development trees back together. In the long term, this will speed development for all platforms. So far, I've only seen reports in this thread of Series 2 and classic Series 3.


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## hsfjr (Apr 14, 2002)

As I said, I had them both set differently (and non-zero)... but I must have been marvelling at the software rev numbers on both sys info screens and that began my "fun"... I did, though, see the Series 2 switch itself back to zero... anyway, doing the remote setting procedure from the book solves it...

I thought they had added some cool "3D-audio" effect to the boo-boop, since I was hearing both... I'm using a portable 7inch DVD player as the display on the S2 so I can see the WLs to key them into the new THD. Then when done, get S2 back to another room so I don't have these problems... I didn't intend to have them as such close neighbors for so long... (We can add "3D-audio" boo-boop to the list of features NOT in new version... but put it way at the bottom of the list... since we don't really need it!)

Any brilliant (third-party) Web2.0 developer come up with an application yet that I can use within my home network to pull up WLs (and SPs) off both units side-by-side on a page and drag and drop them back and forth... (I know I only mentioned it first last night... but programmers don't sleep, right?)

My unit is a TiVoHD (but I said S3 early on since it does say Platform: Series3)... so from the outside, it would appear that the code streams have merged back together.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

StuffOfInterest said:


> Has anyone seen the 9.1 release show up on a TiVo HD? If they have, this would confirm that TiVo and merged the development trees back together. In the long term, this will speed development for all platforms. So far, I've only seen reports in this thread of Series 2 and classic Series 3.


I have 9.1 on one of my Tivo HDs, but not the other yet.


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## TivoK2 (Oct 13, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> That sounds like the look the Series 3 has had since its release. I'm guessing you have a Series 2?


Yes - Sorry - Didn't realize I was in the Series 3 forum until after my post.


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## Chico (Sep 30, 2001)

is the issue with the dim front panel display on the S3 fixed?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

drosoph said:


> Multiroom viewing for TIvo HD and S3 (needs to be enabled)
> 
> Enabled where? They haven't opened up the ALLOW TRANSFERS box for S3's on tivo.com/manage yet ???
> 
> ...


From their servers. They will basically allow the "enable transfers" to work on MMA, which will then, if checked, send the appropriate service keys to the DVR to enable it.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Solver said:


> Some of the things in the new update:
> Crestron Integration for S3


Why just the S3, why not other TiVos? What makes it so special it can only be integrated with a Crestron system?


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

classicsat said:


> Why just the S3, why not other TiVos? What makes it so special it can only be integrated with a Crestron system?


To position it as the 'premium' product.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

hsfjr said:


> Any brilliant (third-party) Web2.0 developer come up with an application yet that I can use within my home network to pull up WLs (and SPs) off both units side-by-side on a page and drag and drop them back and forth... (I know I only mentioned it first last night... but programmers don't sleep, right?)


If there were an API to read/write SPs and WLs over the network, I'm sure something would exist by now. The fact is, on unhacked TiVos, there is not. On the other hand, if the Tivo were hacked, one could have access to them with 3rd party software running on the TiVo, serving them to a PC.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I haven't received the update yet  

How do I force a connection to try to get the update? The only way I know is to repeat the guided setup...is there another way?


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I haven't received the update yet
> 
> How do I force a connection to try to get the update? The only way I know is to repeat the guided setup...is there another way?


From the Main Menu...

"Messages & Settings"--> "Settings"--> "Phone/Network" and then select "Connect to the Tivo Service Now".

Doing this doesn't guarantee you are going to get the update. Tivo has to make it available for your DVR to download. Otherwise you will probably just download new guide data. If your Tivo does download the new update, when it is done loading it will say something like "Upon Next Reboot" on the "Phone/Network" page in the "Last Status" field. Otherwise that field will say "Succeeded" which means it connected ok and downloaded guide data or other information.

I have forced connections a few times on both my Series 3 and Series 2 today and it hasn't downloading the update. I'm not going to worry about it.

I would try to force a connection a few times, if you don't get it don't worry about it. You will get it eventually. Tivo will be rolling it out over the next few weeks from what one of the Tivo reps posted on here I think.


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## rickfriele (Aug 13, 2007)

This update is rolling to both Series 3 TiVo's and TiVo HD's?


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

My S3 still says <name this DVR on tivo.com> in place of its name. I thought this mught have been fixed with this update but it hasn't. Will this affect MRV when it is enabled?


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

George Cifranci said:


> From the Main Menu...
> 
> "Messages & Settings"--> "Settings"--> "Phone/Network" and then select "Connect to the Tivo Service Now".
> 
> ...


I was able to force the connection on both my S2 and S3, and I didn't get the update on either one. Oh well, guess it'll get to me eventually! Thanks for your help.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

nhaigh said:


> My S3 still says <name this DVR on tivo.com> in place of its name. I thought this mught have been fixed with this update but it hasn't. Will this affect MRV when it is enabled?


You've got it reversed.

That will be fixed when MRV is enabled. According to TivoPony, MRV/TTG will be enabled in November.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Chico said:


> is the issue with the dim front panel display on the S3 fixed?


What problem. My Three S3 boxes panels are bright.


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## glassonion (Nov 26, 2006)

As riddick21 asked in the very first reply...has the new update helped anyone who had issues with pixelation? Haven't seen any mention of pixelation (change or no change). New menu features are cool and all, but I want a consistent, clear picture. I tried to force a connection but I'm getting a message saying network connection is temporarily unavailable until a scheduled software update at 2 am. 

Guess I have to wait until tomorrow to find out...


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

rickfriele said:


> This update is rolling to both Series 3 TiVo's and TiVo HD's?


Yes and no.

Yes - it is for both platforms.

No - it is NOT rolling out to everyone yet. In fact, a very limited number of users will see this update currently.


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## artinsocal (Sep 20, 2007)

Hey guys I just got my Tivo S3 hooked up for the 1st time yesterday and the cable guy came by today to install the cable cards, well after he got it up and working and left and I went to do the setup again, the update downloaded. So I'm wondering if going through the setup actually makes the update happen. Just a thought!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

So no M-Card functionality for the S3?

I don't notice any UI changes (the prettier icons some reported) on the S3... so did the S2s just get updated to look as nice as the S3s?

Can't access my S3 via web browser.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> So no M-Card functionality for the S3?
> 
> I don't notice any UI changes (the prettier icons some reported) on the S3... so did the S2s just get updated to look as nice as the S3s?
> 
> Can't access my S3 via web browser.


1. No M-Card functionality for the S3 at least not yet. They are working on it according to the Tivo website...

http://customersupport.tivo.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=bb83ae57-ea46-4162-ab65-4bfde6a851e4

2. The Series 3 UI really hasn't changed much from the Series 2. I really hope they get around to making the interface a true HD interface.

3. Can't access your S3 from the web? Unless something has changed I have been able to. I haven't tried recently though.


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## montivette (Sep 7, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> What problem. My Three S3 boxes panels are bright.


I know my Series 3 is bright when I select bright setting from the menu, but the moment I get out of the menu system with bright selected, it goes back to the dim setting and remains there all the time.

But at 20' from the seating area I don't think i could read the thing very well even if it stayed at the bright setting anyways so it has not been a major issue or inconvenience to me.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

montivette said:


> I know my Series 3 is bright when I select bright setting from the menu, but the moment I get out of the menu system with bright selected, it goes back to the dim setting and remains there all the time.


That's the way it's designed to work. There is a lifetime issue if the display is kept at high brightness level all the time.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> What problem. My Three S3 boxes panels are bright.


Lucky you, when I attempt to adjust the contrast of the clock from dim to bright, it will glow bright for a second or two then goes back to dim and stays that way.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

George Cifranci said:


> 3. Can't access your S3 from the web? Unless something has changed I have been able to. I haven't tried recently though.


I don't mean TiVo Online Scheduling. I mean using a webbrowser on your local network to visit the TiVo's local IP address, port 443, to directly download .tivo files.

This is possible with Series2 but not Series3 and HD models, presumably, because of the current lack of TTG.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

The bug where the front LED lights return to ON (even if set to OFF) after a reboot is still present.

A returning bug is the ToDo List loses it's place when you delete a show using the Clear button, *annoying*


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## Teeps (Aug 16, 2001)

If they don't fix the sound sync and pixelazation problems, what's the point?

Who gives a $#!& about wish list enhancements... I sure don't.


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## OC7 (Nov 17, 2006)

A couple other changes I noticed with this release besides the expanded wishlist functionality:

The interface on the Manual Recording screen has changed to look like the interface on the Browse by Time and Browse by Channel screens. No new functionality there, but it is a cleaner looking interface.

There's an option under Settings/Phone & Network called View Network Status that I don't recall seeing before. It lists information about the network connection. It repeats some of the info listed at the top of the previous menu (name, signal, IP addr, etc.) and adds some additional info (wireless security, gateway address, subnet mask, etc.)

The version number that I have for this release on my S3 is: 9.1.L5-01-2-648


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

OC7 said:


> A couple other changes I noticed with this release besides the expanded wishlist functionality:
> 
> The interface on the Manual Recording screen has changed to look like the interface on the Browse by Time and Browse by Channel screens. No new functionality there, but it is a cleaner looking interface.
> 
> ...


Perhaps someone could check the S3 diagnostics section (in account and system information) and see if it now has the Bit error rate (BER) and signal to noise (SNR) info per tuner that TivoHD supposedly has. That would be nice if it did.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Can anyone confirm if this does or does not enable "kickstarting" the eSATA port on the HD? More storage is my most immediate need.

tlc


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

SCSIRAID said:


> Perhaps someone could check the S3 diagnostics section (in account and system information) and see if it now has the Bit error rate (BER) and signal to noise (SNR) info per tuner that TivoHD supposedly has. That would be nice if it did.


I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for but in the diagnostic screen I see a line for SNR (it's listed as N/A... I don't have CableCARDs if that matters) but not for BER or Bit Error Rate.


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## Scopeman (Oct 22, 2002)

George Cifranci said:


> 2. The Series 3 UI really hasn't changed much from the Series 2. I really hope they get around to making the interface a true HD interface.


With 9.x on my S3 there are some better (nicer) icons, but the change seems minimal.

Also, the way that TivoCast items show up in the NPL has changed slightly. Use to be that even a single TivoCast item from a source like CNET or NYTimes would get it's own folder. Now the item is treated more like a normal show, and only gets a folder when there are 2 of them. Also, the way the TivoCast items are individually titled has changed also.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

That's not how my TiVoCast items were handled with 9.x on my S3. I had TiVoCast shows that were listed invidually in the NP List AND had a folder, even when there was just one. So they were in the NP List as two lines.


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## OC7 (Nov 17, 2006)

SCSIRAID said:


> Perhaps someone could check the S3 diagnostics section (in account and system information) and see if it now has the Bit error rate (BER) and signal to noise (SNR) info per tuner that TivoHD supposedly has. That would be nice if it did.


There's a lot of technical info for each of the two tuners and each of the two cablecards under Diagnostics. I don't know how much of the info is new with this release.

Like *cwoody222*, I don't see a value for Bit error rate, but I do see signal to noise ratio. On each of my two tuners, the SNR value fluctuates between 31 and 35 dB. There also is a value for the cablecards called OOB SNR. My values for this fluctuate between 25 and 26 dB for each cablecard.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> I'm not entirely sure what I'm looking for but in the diagnostic screen I see a line for SNR (it's listed as N/A... I don't have CableCARDs if that matters) but not for BER or Bit Error Rate.


 Analog channels cannot be measured for SNR which is why it lists them as N/A. For digital channels the Diagnostics shows Signal Strength, SNR and RS Corrected/Uncorrected. RS stands for Reed-Solomon and is a variation on BER - I think instead of measuring bits it's comparing symbols or bytes of data but it's the same idea - there are correctable and non-correctable symbols. If you are getting too high of a count of RS Uncorrected then that points to a signal problem. A high count of RS Corrected also indicates a problem but the system is able to correct the errors.


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## beatnavy77 (Sep 23, 2007)

Maybe it's just my TV (an older Sony 40" rear projection LCD HD set), but I'm having some serious overscan problems with the new software. Very noticeable while watching NFL Football on CBS -- I haven't noticed this until the software update -- the ticker appears at the bottom of the screen, I can see maybe the top 15% of the letters.

Also, I can't program in the 30-second skip. Maybe I'm using an older method (Select - Play - Select - 3 - 0 - Select), but I used it about 3 weeks ago successfully.


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## SAH2 (Apr 1, 2007)

I was trying to modify my season passes in preparation for the new shows and have found a new problem since getting the update. Clicking Select on any manual season pass causes the Tivo S3 to freeze. Only the blue screen backgroound remains and no buttons on the remote work. The only fix is to unplug the unit. This does not happen when clicking on any of the programs set to record off a channel with guide data. I am running analog cable, with QAM HD (thus the manual season passess) and OTA antenna. 

Anyone else have manual season passes that can try this? I am next going to delete all manual season passes. Some of these were entered using the new screen for Manual Recording that is part of the new update.


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## jeffster (Feb 18, 2001)

Those who have the 9.1 version on the TivoHD -- does it improve the system menu responsiveness like 8.3 (?) did for the Series 3?


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## cody_dingo (Aug 21, 2007)

jeffster said:


> Those who have the 9.1 version on the TivoHD -- does it improve the system menu responsiveness like 8.3 (?) did for the Series 3?


Great question. I was _just_ going to ask this very same thing.


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

Teeps said:


> If they don't fix the sound sync and pixelazation problems, what's the point?
> 
> Who gives a $#!& about wish list enhancements... I sure don't.


Me.

I used to use the advanced wishlist functionality on my hacked S1 and S2 units. When I had to move to an S2.5 and S3, I've missed it a lot. If that wasn't enough, the new functionality is even better than the old advanced wishlists.

No more will I set a wishlist for the wire and get a show from HGTV about making some crafts with wire.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

cody_dingo said:


> Great question. I was _just_ going to ask this very same thing.


I doubt Tivo would take a step backwards. I think we can assume that 9.1.x incorporates all of the performance enhancements of 8.3.x.

TivoHD users should see a nice boost to guide and menu performance after the initial 24-48 hours indexing period.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

beatnavy77 said:


> Maybe it's just my TV (an older Sony 40" rear projection LCD HD set), but I'm having some serious overscan problems with the new software. Very noticeable while watching NFL Football on CBS -- I haven't noticed this until the software update -- the ticker appears at the bottom of the screen, I can see maybe the top 15% of the letters.
> 
> Also, I can't program in the 30-second skip. Maybe I'm using an older method (Select - Play - Select - 3 - 0 - Select), but I used it about 3 weeks ago successfully.


Try using it on a time delayed program. Go to live TV, hit instant replay, and then try it again. If that doesn't work, try it on a recorded program.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

beatnavy77 said:


> Maybe it's just my TV (an older Sony 40" rear projection LCD HD set), but I'm having some serious overscan problems with the new software. Very noticeable while watching NFL Football on CBS -- I haven't noticed this until the software update -- the ticker appears at the bottom of the screen, I can see maybe the top 15% of the letters.


You're not watching a SD channel, are you? If you are watching a SD channel, make sure you don't have the Tivo set to zoom mode. Aspect options (panel, zoom, etc) are toggled for SD channels with the "Aspect" button on the remote.

Be sure that your Tivo is set to the appropriate screen aspect ratio under Video -> Settings too.


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## debtoine (May 17, 2001)

sfhub said:


> It is supposed to have Crestron integration but not sure how many people will be set up to verify that.
> 
> http://customersupport.tivo.com/Lau...-1710-40e4-89b9-425e7c69dcb1&anchor=undefined


I can check this tonight.

T


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Tivo 2 Go has been officially confirmed for the Series 3/HD for November?!? Any restrictions? Now I wish I had done the service transfer from my S2 (except the S3 I got had weird audio problems).

Anyway my S2 got the update. The new interface was a real surprise, and really snazzy. By the way, the S3s did NOT originally have that interface. They used to look identical to the S2s, aside from being crisper.

There's a new screen when you're not tuned in to any particular channel too.

One thing I wonder is why *I* got this update. Guess it must be totally random, as AFAIK I'm not in any kind of program to get this stuff early.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

The Series3 never had the old Series2 interface.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Can someone show some pics of what the S2's look like now? Do their screens look identical to the S3's now?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Arcady said:


> The Series3 never had the old Series2 interface.





cwoody222 said:


> Can someone show some pics of what the S2's look like now? Do their screens look identical to the S3's now?


I had a Series 3, and it looked basically identical to my Series 2. This new interface on my Series 2 looks VERY different from what the Series 2 and 3 used to look like.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Did you have your S3 hooked up to a HDTV? Was it set to output in 16x9 and something above 480i?

I've had my S3 since Oct 2006 and it had "glossier" menus and icons than the S2 did since the moment I took it out of the box 11 months ago.

I haven't noticed a single change in the S3 UI since getting 9.x last week. Although I hear reports a few icons changed; I haven't noticed them.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Nope, I have an HDTV, but don't use it to watch TV. But this new interface is VERY different from what I used to see on an S3 or my S2, or in any of the videos I've ever seen of an S3 in action.


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## drew00001 (Jan 13, 2007)

Did Pony ever coment on the timeframe for this update?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Noticed an update to TiVos webpage, "Getting Started with Multi-room Viewing". It appears that TTG and MRV will be part of this v9.1x upgrade:



> ~ The DVRs must have software version 4.0 or later. If one of the DVRs has software version 9.1 or later, the other DVRs must also be running software version 9.1 or later. To learn more, see Software Version Troubleshooting.


 MRV/TTG activation is slated for November  and Im sure someone would have already caught it, but can anyone with a TiVo S3 that's received the v9.1x upgrade confirm TTG and/or MRV is active by some rare chance? (When MRV/TTG is inactive the information will show i,i,i (as below). Active MRV/TTG will show a,a,a.)


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

drew00001 said:


> Did Pony ever coment on the timeframe for this update?


TiVoJerry comment.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

beatnavy77 said:


> Also, I can't program in the 30-second skip. Maybe I'm using an older method (Select - Play - Select - 3 - 0 - Select), but I used it about 3 weeks ago successfully.


Can anyone with 9.1 disprove this please? Beatnavy was doing it right. If TiVo took away my 30 second skip, I'd be pretty profoundly upset.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

30 sec skip works fine on my S3 with 9.x


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## rossman66 (Apr 30, 2005)

I think this has been asked once or twice already, but has anyone that has received the update that also had pixelation issues noticed a difference? I still get pixelation on the some HD channels which is really aggravating especially since the new fall season is underway.

-Mark


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> 30 sec skip works fine on my S3 with 9.x


Thanks! I was worried there for a minute.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

rossman66 said:


> I think this has been asked once or twice already, but has anyone that has received the update that also had pixelation issues noticed a difference? I still get pixelation on the some HD channels which is really aggravating especially since the new fall season is underway.
> 
> -Mark


I have received the update and also have been suffering the pixelation/macroblocking problem. It seems to me that it is reduced. I am not seeing nearly as much as previously experienced. However I have only had the update since Saturday night at about 7PM when I noticed "pending restart" so I need continue to monitor this. It may be that I have hit a good streak so I will post more in a few days...


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## Globular (Jun 9, 2004)

cr33p said:


> Esata was enabled with the last update, granted you have to pull the drive to marry the two together.


What about the "kickstart 62" method on a TiVo HD? Has anyone tried that with 9.1?

cf. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=350491

-Matt


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## hglass (Oct 12, 2005)

I have and it work perfectly


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Noticed an update to TiVos webpage, "Getting Started with Multi-room Viewing". It appears that TTG and MRV will be part of this v9.1x upgrade:
> 
> MRV/TTG activation is slated for November  and Im sure someone would have already caught it, but can anyone with a TiVo S3 that's received the v9.1x upgrade confirm TTG and/or MRV is active by some rare chance? (When MRV/TTG is inactive the information will show i,i,i (as below). Active MRV/TTG will show a,a,a.)


IIRC. there are a few people who's flags were incorrectly left at a,a,a. but when they transfered something, the transfered shows won't play. How about now?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

hglass said:


> I have and it work perfectly


Can you be a little more specific? What works perfectly?


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## fizban (Feb 19, 2005)

I got the update the other day also. Followed up a call for a pixelation problem I was having that ending up not being my Tivo's fault at all. Too much signal strength. (Guess too much is bad...)

Well anyway I have noticed a couple things. First off I have come home to have no video signal at all. Had to unplug the Tivo to reset it twice now. It would not recognize the external sata drive on two reboots at which point I unpluged the hard drive and started everthing back up. Seems fine now.

I have also noticed that the 30 sec skip seems to lag behind, a little slower than it was before. Not sure if this will improve at all. No TTG or MRV yet but my fingers are crossed.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

fizban said:


> I got the update the other day also. Followed up a call for a pixelation problem I was having that ending up not being my Tivo's fault at all. Too much signal strength. (Guess too much is bad...)
> 
> Well anyway I have noticed a couple things. First off I have come home to have no video signal at all. Had to unplug the Tivo to reset it twice now. It would not recognize the external sata drive on two reboots at which point I unpluged the hard drive and started everthing back up. Seems fine now.
> 
> I have also noticed that the 30 sec skip seems to lag behind, a little slower than it was before. Not sure if this will improve at all. No TTG or MRV yet but my fingers are crossed.


Uh-oh. Anyone else w/v9.1x have an eSATA attached? Any problems?


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## Mr MoUnTaInMaN (Sep 23, 2007)

I just got my Tivo HD last sunday and still waiting for TWC to bring my CC's but i was checking my software and i still have ver: 8.1 and have manually made it connect to tivo many times and still no update i was just wondering if this is normally i don't want any problems later if i can help it or do i just have to wait? I am using OTA and it works great picture was a little pixalated but seems much better the last few days.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

The 9.1 update isn't S3 or HD specific, so we're part of a _much_ larger pool and have a very small chance of being included in the initial rollout. Once TiVo activates the priority page in a week or two, add your boxes and you'll get it quickly.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Mr MoUnTaInMaN said:


> I just got my Tivo HD last sunday and still waiting for TWC to bring my CC's but i was checking my software and i still have ver: 8.1 and have manually made it connect to tivo many times and still no update i was just wondering if this is normally i don't want any problems later if i can help it or do i just have to wait? I am using OTA and it works great picture was a little pixalated but seems much better the last few days.


Congrats on your new "baby"! :up:

*rodalpho * is correct. Here's more info/links for the 9.1x upgrade.


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## OC7 (Nov 17, 2006)

fizban said:


> I have also noticed that the 30 sec skip seems to lag behind, a little slower than it was before. Not sure if this will improve at all.


I noticed this lag also. In fact, if you hit the 30 sec skip button multiple times in quick succession (for example, 4 clicks = 2 mins), the picture will now pause until you stop clicking the button. The same type of behavior is also true for the built-in 8 sec rewind button. Don't know if this change is by design or not.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

Hmm. That's not good. Does it impact usability for you?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Puppy76 said:


> Nope, I have an HDTV, but don't use it to watch TV. But this new interface is VERY different from what I used to see on an S3 or my S2, or in any of the videos I've ever seen of an S3 in action.


I really don't think the S3 got any sort of major update. I think you just had your S3 outputting a crappy picture on your non-HD TV.

Here's two pics I just took. Same TV. Same S3 running 9.x. If I tell the TiVo I have a 16x9 set, you get the HD.jpg If I tell the TiVo I have a 4x3 set, TiVo automatically assumes I don't have HD and therefore makes it look like SD.jpg

You can see the HD looks MUCH clearer.


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## TiVoPony (May 12, 2002)

Just to be clear for everyone...the official rollout has not yet begun. 

What you've seen is just a small test to measure the impact we can expect on customer support. It's one of the standard steps we take on our way to giving a rollout the green light. 

So...if your box happens to get into this test (it's completely random), try it out and ping customer support if you have any issues. Or look for help here if that's what you'd normally do. Just do what you'd always do. 

But there's no need to force your DVR to phone home. Or to call customer support and ask to get the software (unless you received it, but only on one box on your account). If everything continues to go well, the big switch will be thrown soon enough.

Cheers,
Pony


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

rodalpho said:


> Hmm. That's not good. Does it impact usability for you?


If 30 second skip is "screwed up" then I don't want the update. My S3 works flawlessly now and I want it to stay that way. Hopefully they fix that the 30 second skip right away. Even if it is an "undocumented feature" it's still one of the best features. Even the Comcrap boxes have it now. PLEASE don't screw up 30 second skip! It's the most used button on the TiVo remote (for those of us who use it). Please. Please. Please...


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## jalacy (Nov 21, 2002)

Could one of you lucky folks who has received 9.1 check to see if manual "channel mapping" is in 9.1 for those of us who are receiving unencrypted QAM HD channels and would like to have scheduling support. 
Thanks in advance. I am tired of scheduling all my HD recordings manually.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> Just to be clear for everyone...the official rollout has not yet begun.
> 
> What you've seen is just a small test to measure the impact we can expect on customer support. It's one of the standard steps we take on our way to giving a rollout the green light.
> 
> ...


Ok cool. I have been forcing a connection all day. So I will stop now. I almost called support. Still waiting for MRV on TiVo HD's.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

jalacy said:


> Could one of you lucky folks who has received 9.1 check to see if manual "channel mapping" is in 9.1 for those of us who are receiving unencrypted QAM HD channels and would like to have scheduling support.
> Thanks in advance. I am tired of scheduling all my HD recordings manually.


No. Unless it's hidden somewhere.

As for 30 second skip, I notice no difference before and after the update. Works fine here. If there's a delay or a difference now, it's so minor I didn't notice.


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## SAH2 (Apr 1, 2007)

I have 9.1 on an S3 and have a new problem with manual recording. I cannot "select" any manual recordings on the Season Pass Manager. If I do, the Tivo freezes and just the blue background remains. This happens on both manual season passes that were there before the update and any new ones I have added since. I do know there is a new menu for setting manual recordings.

I haven;t called support yet as I have not had time when I was in front of the TV.

I looked and could not find anything for QAM mapping. If it was there it would eliminate the manual season pass problem from above.

My eSata appears to be working fine. I have had the FAP 750 running since they were the BB $199 "special".


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## George Webster (Apr 2, 2003)

rossman66 said:


> I think this has been asked once or twice already, but has anyone that has received the update that also had pixelation issues noticed a difference? I still get pixelation on the some HD channels which is really aggravating especially since the new fall season is underway.
> 
> -Mark


I do NOT believe that Tivo has a pixelation issue. I am 1,050 feet above sea level and my OTA signals come in strong. All the channels come in perfect except one. That one has a few pixel problems from time to time but that is when the wind makes the trees sway and drops the signal sometimes as low as 64. Other than that, my Tivo S3 works perfect.

A buddy of mine had Cablevision installed but he does NOT have a Tivo or ANY DVR. He immediately noticed so much pixelation that he canceled the service and went with satellite. Cablevision is delivered over fiber optic cable that was installed about four years ago. You would expect the picture over fiber optic to be perfect, but often it is not. I suspect the reason for this is that many cable companies do not have their signal sources being delivered to them totally free of pixelation problems.

I have seen many people blame the software version of Tivo for pixalation but I have never experienced it and mine has the same software as everybody else.

Also, I had DirecTV for 11 years and did notice pixelation there too. (Very high signal with nothing in the signal path) I suspect the pixelation is at the source feed that is then uplinked to the satellite. I believe expecting the source feed to be perfect all of the time is just unrealistic. Many times the up link facility is getting their source by systems that deliver it from hundreds OR thousands of miles away. Sometimes by microwave relay across the country. But even if the signal transport system for the signal was perfect ALL of the time, there can still be problems with the device that is being feed into the transport system. Blaming it on the Tivo without first knowing for sure that the problem is not in the signal source is a dangerous assumption.

I see many people state that their cable guy verified a strong signal coming into the house, however, I maintain that a pixelation issue is so fleeting and fast that many meters may not even be able to detect the fast problem with the signal. Also, the signal could be just fine, but devoid of a small amount of needed bits. With a full high definition TV, 1920 x 1080, it delivers 2, 073,600 pixels on the screen. If just a small number of those are missing you will have pixelation but the cable guy may see no problem with the signal strength. A signal strength reading does NOT guaranty there are no missing bits of data in the signal stream.


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## winter (Jan 28, 2002)

George Webster said:


> I do NOT believe that Tivo has a pixelation issue.
> ...
> I have seen many people blame the software version of Tivo for pixalation but I have never experienced it and mine has the same software as everybody else.
> ...
> Blaming it on the Tivo without first knowing for sure that the problem is not in the signal source is a dangerous assumption. I see many people state that their cable guy verified a strong signal coming into the house, however, I maintain that a pixelation issue is so fleeting and fast that many meters may not even be able to detect the fast problem with the signal.


For you to dismiss a real problem because you have not personally experienced it is quite unfair.

With VZ FIOS I and others have personally experienced pixelation on a TivoHD while a Motorola DVR (supplied by VZ) running off the same feed did not experience pixelation on the same channel at the same time, side by side. That eliminates your theory about the source feed being the problem; clearly if the Motorola box can display a channel without pixelation then the feed is fine.

I don't know if its the TivoHD or a CableCard issue but please don't go off writing long posts about how Tivo pixelation is not a real problem. It is real and plenty of proof has already been posted.

There are plenty of other threads discussing this issue, not sure why you felt it necessary to interrupt this one with your pixelation theory but since you did I felt it necessary to set the record straight.


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## George Webster (Apr 2, 2003)

<< With VZ FIOS I and others have personally experienced pixelation on a TivoHD while a Motorola DVR (supplied by VZ) running off the same feed did not experience pixelation on the same channel at the same time, side by side. >>

I do not doubt your word.

<< That eliminates your theory about the source feed being the problem; clearly if the Motorola box can display a channel without pixelation then the feed is fine. >>

The feed was fine in your case, since you cannot verify the feed in other peoples homes it is unfair of you to assume that all Tivos have your problem. Mine obviously does not, but being OTA my signal comes directly from the broadcaster without the chance of a signal transport or satellite or cable system malfunction.

<< writing long posts about how Tivo pixelation is not a real problem. It is real and plenty of proof has already been posted >>

Perhaps I did not write clearly enough but it just bugs me when people think that Tivo has a software problem that causes pixelation because I do not experience pixelation and I have the same software. It obviously cannot be the software.

<< There are plenty of other threads discussing this issue, not sure why you felt it necessary to interrupt this one with your pixelation theory but since you did I felt it necessary to set the record straight >>

Plenty of threads does not take into account that people tend to write about problems but does not take into account the many many people that are not experiencing problems. The no problem/ problem ratio is unclear but what is clear is that not everyone has the problem and therefore it is not the software.


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## BillL (Oct 6, 2004)

George Webster said:


> << With VZ FIOS I and others have personally experienced pixelation on a TivoHD while a Motorola DVR (supplied by VZ) running off the same feed did not experience pixelation on the same channel at the same time, side by side. >>
> 
> I do not doubt your word.
> 
> ...


Its a combination problem of degraded signal from the cable company and the way that the TiVo handles this signal. Last spring ESPNHD, DISCOVERYHD, YESHD and many other stations were unwatchable for me. All of these stations were on the 600khz frequency. I did NOT EXPERIENCE A LITTLE PIXILATION NOW AND THEN, but actually loss of sound and signal. It wasnt inconvenient spats of pixilation, The channels were *unwatchable* on my TiVo. The signal bounced from 80 to 0. At the same time, my motorola box had ZERO issues with the same channels.

In the summer those channels stopped pixilating completely. Maybe a change in the signals from the cable company. Now that the fall lineups started, NBCHD which I had no problems in the past, is unwatchable on my TiVo but is fine on the motorola.

Tell me that this is not a problem.


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## Televisionary (Oct 24, 2000)

richsadams said:


> Uh-oh. Anyone else w/v9.1x have an eSATA attached? Any problems?


Anyone? Us early upgraders are eager to find out!


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## winter (Jan 28, 2002)

George Webster said:


> << writing long posts about how Tivo pixelation is not a real problem. It is real and plenty of proof has already been posted >>
> 
> Perhaps I did not write clearly enough but it just bugs me when people think that Tivo has a software problem that causes pixelation because I do not experience pixelation and I have the same software. It obviously cannot be the software.


Let me get this straight, because there is a Tivo problem (in either the hardware or software) that does not affect you, you conclude that it does not exist?

Yes it is possible that there is a problem that does not manifest itself in your configuration/environment but the problem is still there. Are you even using CableCards?

"unfair of you to assume that all Tivos have your problem" Since I have tried two different brand new TivoHD's with the same result and numerous other people are reporting the problem I think it is safe to say that all Tivo's have this problem rather then it being the case of my inidividual unit being defective.

No one has said that all TivoHD's are experiencing pixelation but I am quite sure if I took your Tivo and plugged into into my feed that pixelation would occur.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

George Webster said:


> I do NOT believe that Tivo has a pixelation issue.


Get real! Tell that to the hundreds of people who had the problems when the THD was 1st released. Tivo CONFIRMED the issue and released 2/3 software patches to fix them for the THD units. Some people after much debugging and signal checking still have the problem on their S3 units but not the cable co. DVR receiving the same signal.

I don't have pixelation problems myself (and I do use cable) on either of my S3 units but I'm not naive enough to say there are no pixelation problems with some Tivo units under certain circumstances...


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## rossman66 (Apr 30, 2005)

Wow. I did not mean to stir up so much trouble. George its great to hear that you aren't experiencing the pixelation problems. But as many others have stated, we are and its frustrating. There are numerous posts about the issue so I wont restate them. A simple search will show you that its most likely a problem with Tivo and not the signal, CableCard etc.

However, that's not what this thread is about. Its about the new software update and how its working out for everyone. My original question was targeted to people who have received the update and have noticed improvement in their pixelation issues. Since you (George) don't seem to have the update nor the pixelation, your answer was unhelpful.

Sorry for all the commotion. I hope this update helps everyone. I love my Tivo and wouldn't live without it, pixelation or not.

Best,
Mark


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Not to fuel the fire, but I've been closely following all of the S3 threads discussing macroblocking or "pixilation" for months now because we experienced it. It has since been rectified but I know it exists and I also know that things can get better if not close to perfect.

Theres no question that theres a macroblocking problem with S3s (and TiVo HDs). There are too many reports for it to be just an anomaly. However based on all of the posts on various threads it's also obviously not S3-wide or there would be many more complaints than we have seen. Granted that only a percentage of people having problems find their way here, but the THD problems are a good example of what we might be seeing if this were more wide spread as there are a good deal more S3's in the market than THD's.

I'd also give caution about comparing cableco DVR's to TiVo for a couple of reasons. First, processing of the signal is accomplished in at least two different ways. Cableco DVR's have proprietary on-board processors handling a direct signal. TiVo S3s not only have different processors, but manage the signal through an additional step, cable cards. Second, the firmware that handles all of the processing is different for the same reasons. Cableco DVRs have one known quantity to deal with. TiVo has to be able to cope with a wide variety of possibilities. As we saw with the THD's, cableco signals and CC's are a key element to this issue.

There are many reports on the avs forum by folks experiencing macroblocking on their HD TV's that employ CC's. Posts about macroblocking with OTA delivery on this forum and elsewhere are almost non-existent.

These kinds of issues have also been brought up previously with other software releases. A number earlier posts claimed that v8.1x caused problems and that v8.3x solved them and vice-versa.

Bottom line is that there is a problem for some pure and simple and IMHO it appears to be a combination of TiVo being able to properly process some cableco signals and some cableco signals and equipment exacerbating what is obviously the delicate balance that TiVo requires.

Hopefully most if not all of these issues will be solved with the Fall upgrade release. A positive sign is that AFAIK no one that's received v9.1x to date is complaining about macroblocking. It will be very interesting to see if this version "cures" the ills of some and (hopefully) doesn't create new ones.

For more discussion about macroblocking issues:

Click here for S3's

Click here for TiVo HD's

In the meantime, remain calm...remember it's only TV and that things can be made right...hopefully sooner than later.


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## SAH2 (Apr 1, 2007)

Televisionary said:


> Anyone? Us early upgraders are eager to find out!


Hi I replied above - I have 9.1 and no eSata problems. I do however have a new problem with any Season passes for manual recordings (QAM channels)


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

SAH2 said:


> Hi I replied above - I have 9.1 and no eSata problems. I do however have a new problem with any Season passes for manual recordings (QAM channels)


Good news about the eSATA drive...phew! Not so good about the SP's. Hopefully it'll be a quick fix.

Did you call TiVo? I'd do that ASAP with anything that you or anyone sees that doesn't seem to be working properly so they can address it ASAP and start the formal upgrade rollout.

Thanks for that! :up:


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## dheerema (Jul 6, 2004)

TiVoPony said:


> Just to be clear for everyone...the official rollout has not yet begun.
> 
> What you've seen is just a small test to measure the impact we can expect on customer support. It's one of the standard steps we take on our way to giving a rollout the green light.
> 
> ...


I got the updatre on all three of my networked S2 DT units. They are named as follows:
main 4 and HBO
Bedroom 7 and 14
basement 2

I name them this way so ther is never a conflict. Anyway.... when looking in the now playing list I see an additional unit called simply DVR. When I go there, it brings up an identical list as "Basement 2". It works fine, but is a little weird. I have restarted all of the units, and it still shows up on the now playing list twice under two different names.


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## mercurial (Oct 17, 2002)

MurrayJimW said:


> Wow! I have the exact opposite problem......
> 
> I get all the UNC crap.....


No accounting for taste, eh?


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## drew00001 (Jan 13, 2007)

jalacy said:


> Could one of you lucky folks who has received 9.1 check to see if manual "channel mapping" is in 9.1 for those of us who are receiving unencrypted QAM HD channels and would like to have scheduling support.
> Thanks in advance. I am tired of scheduling all my HD recordings manually.


Manual channel mapping would be AWESOME!!!! (whoa, I never use that word).

If TiVos had mapping, I could stop paying Comcast an extra $15.99 for the digital package I never watch. I would also save $1.95 per cablecard, that I pay just so I can download the Local HD schedule and use season passes with such.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

There's no way TiVo will ever add an obscure feature like QAM mapping to their software. This is the same company that refused to give us a disk space usage meter. They're razor focused upon ease of use and the mass market.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

rodalpho said:


> There's no way TiVo will ever add an obscure feature like QAM mapping to their software. This is the same company that refused to give us a disk space usage meter. They're razor focused upon ease of use and the mass market.


i think that Tivo has some business reason for not doing AM mapping at this time, but I wouldn't bet that they'd never support it.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

There's no way to build a mass market UI for a feature that most people don't even understand. It'll never happen. But we're getting pretty far off topic here, people.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

rodalpho said:


> There's no way to build a mass market UI for a feature that most people don't even understand. It'll never happen. But we're getting pretty far off topic here, people.


Sony did it and it wasn't that hard to understand.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

All this talk of QAM mapping made me go thru all my digital channels the other day to see what was there. Without CableCARDs my TiVo finds about 200 digital channels.

I get about half a dozen 0's, half a dozen 1-x channels. Then a bunch in the 70-x and 80-x range. Then a bunch over 100.

There is absolutely no rhyme or reason. And no way to find out what channel is which without going thru EACH ONE individually.

I found that the 0's are mostly VOD, TBS digital simulcast and E! digital simulcast. Why are those two my only digital simulcast? Who knows. Why are they both labeled as channel "0"? Who knows.

My local affiliates are all in the 1-x range. (a few months ago they were in the 80's though) But there are 3 that are all 1-1. Worse, you cannot "Ch Up" from a 1-1 to a 1-1. TiVo jumps to 1-2. So how do you get to the "middle" 1-1? You have to turn off one of the others in "Channels you receive". I get a total of 5 local HD channels. They're on:

1-1
1-1
1-1
1-2
1-3

There's also another 1-2 that's blank. I suspect that's the local CW or MyNetworkTV channel that the cable company "forgot" to not encrypt.

Then, of course, I had the pleasure of going thru all the other channels (close to 200) only to find mostly Music channels. The rest were blank.

You expect the typical consumer to do this? You expect TiVo to make a user-friendly way to do this? And then to have it be used by a VERY small number of people? (ones who don't have CableCARDs, don't use OTA, and have the technical know-how)

It's not going to happen...


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cwoody222 said:


> You expect the typical consumer to do this? You expect TiVo to make a user-friendly way to do this? And then to have it be used by a VERY small number of people? (ones who don't have CableCARDs, don't use OTA, and have the technical know-how)
> 
> It's not going to happen...


Let's pretend someone's cable company is passing through the PSIP as they are required by FCC so the HD locals are actually listed as 2.1, 3.1, 4.1, 7.1, 9.1, etc. You tune to those channels and see there is guide data for those channels but it forces TiVo to tune using the OTA antenna. You can't figure out why they can't just add 2 & 2 together and map the OTA guide to the cable PSIP-mapped channels.

Second scenario, let's pretend someone has already mapped out all the channels for you so you don't need to go through one by one. Only one person needs to do this. They might even have a website where you type in your zip code and it lists all the channel mappings. HDHomeRun might even sponsor such a site since it is of value to their users. This site might not be 100% accurate, but it should get you most of the way there.

Keep in mind QAM mapping is only useful for basic cable users (or users only interested in recording basic cable channels). If you care about any higher package, you need the CableCARDs because those channels are encrypted.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

Oh, god not the QAM remapping argument again.

Can't you people use a different thread for that?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

sfhub said:


> Let's pretend someone's cable company is passing through the PSIP as they are required by FCC


Really? 'Cause there's a fraction of a handful of people here who actuall have that experience.

I guess all those cable co's are breaking the law?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> I guess all those cable co's are breaking the law?


Unfortunately, there is no enforcement.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Really? 'Cause there's a fraction of a handful of people here who actuall have that experience.
> 
> I guess all those cable co's are breaking the law?


 They may be required to pass PSIP info from broadcasters, but broadcasters may not necessarily provide PSIP in their feeds to cable companies. When I contacted my cable company they said the HD locals with missing PSIP they receive via fiber optic link (not OTA) and those do not contain PSIP info to begin with, hence nothing to pass on. Of course I don't know if that is the truth or not but that is what I was told... I tend to believe them because 2 local HD channels (Fox and ABC) do have the PSIP information, so it's not like they are intentionally or accidently blocking PSIP.

EDIT: Note that actually all the HD local channels do have PSIP information, however not all of them have all the PSIP information including the logical channel map information.


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## tmesser (Apr 12, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Really? 'Cause there's a fraction of a handful of people here who actuall have that experience.


Count me as another one of the fraction of a handful. I was a little surprised when I did a scan today and found them. Comcast must have changed that on my system in the last few months, so maybe (I know it's a stretch) they'll eventually do it nationwide. Who knows.


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Unfortunately, there is no enforcement.


The cable company is not required to pass all PSIP info, only a few of the tables. Essentially those that are required for most TV sets to get a picture. IIRC, the table that maps the RF channel number to whatever logical channel number the station is using OTA (8.1, 24.1, whatever) is not one of the required tables.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

wierdo said:


> The cable company is not required to pass all PSIP info, only a few of the tables. Essentially those that are required for most TV sets to get a picture. IIRC, the table that maps the RF channel number to whatever logical channel number the station is using OTA (8.1, 24.1, whatever) is not one of the required tables.


 Good point. Amending my post above there actually is PSIP data for all HD local channels, just some of the PSIP information related to logical mapping is missing.


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## slimm (Sep 19, 2003)

richsadams said:


> Uh-oh. Anyone else w/v9.1x have an eSATA attached? Any problems?


Just received 9.1 today. The only strange thing I noticed was that the Tivo restarted twice before applying the service update. Other than that, everything works as before. This is with the 750 DB35/MX1 combo.


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## silypuddy (Jun 4, 2007)

So has anyone found out what is in 9.1 other than bug fixes and and a snazzier ui? I have 9.1 on my THD but not my S2, and I really haven't noticed any differences...


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## Televisionary (Oct 24, 2000)

SAH2 said:


> Hi I replied above - I have 9.1 and no eSata problems. I do however have a new problem with any Season passes for manual recordings (QAM channels)


Hi SAH2,

Sorry, I didn't notice that until I re-read the thread today. And I see slimm has replied as well that it was a hands-off transition. My family and my expensive new S3s and accessories are all breathing a big sigh of relief!

many thanks,
-T


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

wierdo said:


> The cable company is not required to pass all PSIP info, only a few of the tables. Essentially those that are required for most TV sets to get a picture. *IIRC, the table that maps the RF channel number to whatever logical channel number the station is using OTA (8.1, 24.1, whatever) is not one of the required tables.*


===

*Cable Carriage of Digital TV Signals Summary of FCC Rules Adopted January 18, 2001*
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/digital.html
...
Content of Signals Subject to Mandatory Carriage 
...
Program-related. A cable operator would be required to carry the following material carried on a digital television signal because it could be considered program-related under the WGN factors: (1) closed captioning, (2) V-chip data, (3) Nielsen ratings data, and *(4) channel mapping and tuning protocols (PSIP).*

===

*CFR 76.640*
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...s.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf
...

76.640 Support for unidirectional digital cable products on digital cable systems.

(a) The requirements of this section shall apply to digital cable systems. For purposes of this section, digital cable systems shall be defined as a
cable system with one or more channels utilizing QAM modulation for transporting programs and services from its headend to receiving devices. Cable systems that only pass through 8VSB broadcast signals shall not be considered digital cable systems.

...

(iv) *For each digital transport stream* that includes one or more services *carried in-the-clear*, such transport stream *shall include virtual channel data in-band* in the form of *ATSC A/65B*: ATSC Standard: Program and System Information Protocol for Terrestrial Broadcast and Cable (Revision B) (*incorporated by reference*, see 76.602), *when available from the content provider*. With respect to in-band transport:

...

(D) *Each channel shall be identified by a one- or two-part channel number and a textual channel name;*

===

*ATSC Standard: Program and System Information Protocol for Terrestrial Broadcast and Cable (Revision C) With Amendment No. 1*
http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_65cr1_with_amend_1.pdf
...

While the standard requires delivery of the first four EITs (EIT-0-3) in the case of terrestrial broadcast, no such requirement exists for the cable. *Inter-industry agreements and FCC regulations, however, have established certain practices with regard to the carriage of PSIP data when provided to the cable operator by the program provider, including terrestrial broadcast. Section 7 describes these regulations and agreements.*

...

1.1.2 Cable
The following PSIP data *shall be included* in all ATSC-compliant Transport Streams to be transmitted via cable:
 The Cable Virtual Channel Table (CVCT) defining, *at a minimum, the virtual channel structure* for the collection of MPEG-2 programs embedded in the Transport Stream in which the CVCT is carried.
 The Master Guide Table (MGT) defining the type, packet identifiers, and versions for all of the other PSIP tables included in this Transport Stream except for the System Time Table (STT).
 The Rating Region Table (RRT) defining the TV parental guideline system (rating information) referenced by any content advisory descriptor carried within the Transport Stream, except the RRT corresponding to rating_region 0x01 (US + possessions).
 The System Time Table (STT), defining the current date and time of day.

...

5.2 Requirements for Cable
The rules governing the transport of PSIP tables for cable are:
 Requirement 6: *The required tables for a cable system are:* the STT, either *the CVCT or the TVCT*, and the MGT. For any region that makes use of the capability to change the RRT, that RRT shall be included in the TS if any content_advisory_descriptor in use refers to that region. An RRT defining the rating system for a given region shall be included in the TS if any content_advisory_descriptor in use refers to that region, unless that region has explicit standards that define the rating system and the meaning of the values in the content_advisory_descriptor.

...

6.3.2 Cable Virtual Channel Table
The Cable Virtual Channel Table is carried in private sections with table_id 0xC9, and obeys the syntax and semantics given in Section 4. The following constraints apply to the Transport Stream packets carrying the VCT sections:
 PID for Cable VCT shall have the value 0x1FFB (base_PID)
 transport_scrambling_control bits shall have the value 00
 adaptation_field_control bits shall have the value 01
The Cable Virtual Channel Table may be present in a terrestrial broadcast multiplex when a broadcaster has coordinated consistent channel labeling/numbering with all local cable operators carrying that multiplex, and different channel labeling and/or numbering between cable and terrestrial broadcast is desired. When both CVCT and TVCT are present in the multiplex, receiving devices are expected to use the TVCT to navigate services received via terrestrial
broadcast and the CVCT to navigate services received via cable. The bit stream syntax for the Cable Virtual Channel Table shall be as shown in Table 6.8.
The semantics for the CVCT are the same as the TVCT except for those fields explicitly defined below.

table_id  An 8-bit unsigned integer number that indicates the type of table section being defined here. For the cable_virtual_channel_table_section, the table_id shall be 0xC9.
major_channel_number, minor_channel_number  These two 10-bit fields represent either a two-part or a one-part virtual channel number associated with the virtual channel being defined in this iteration of the for loop9. The one- or two-part number acts as the users reference number for the virtual channel. Some channels in the CVCT may be represented with a one-part number while others are represented with two-part numbers. Channel number values shall be set such that in no case is a major_channel_number/minor_channel_number pair duplicated within the CVCT.

To specify a two-part channel number, both the major_channel_number and the minor_channel_number fields shall be below 1000. To specify a one-part channel number, the six most significant bits of major_channel_number shall be 11 1111. Values and combinations of major_channel_number and minor_channel_number falling outside these ranges are reserved. The one-part channel number is a 14-bit quantity that shall be computed by the following formula, represented in C syntax:

...

7. THE TRANSITION TO PSIP ON CABLE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

The first digital cable boxes to employ MPEG-2 transport and video coding were deployed in North America beginning in 1996. This PSIP standard was developed and approved by the ATSC in 1997. In 1998, the use of PSIP on cable was balloted and approved by the Digital Video Subcommittee of SCTE.

Cable systems supporting Uni-Directional Digital Receiving Devices provide an out-of-band control channel for system control and addressing of these boxes. System Information in accordance with ANSI/SCTE 65 2002 provides navigational information such as the cable frequency plan in use, *the channel line-up, and channel names and numbers. This standard uses the same virtual channel map approach that PSIP uses.*

*Federal regulations adopted by the FCC (47 CFR 76.640) require cable operators to include A/65 PSIP data including virtual channel tables and event information to describe services carried in-the-clear, when such PSIP data is made available to them from the content provider.* This same section of the FCC rules states that System Information carried out-of-band must include a textual channel name for each channel carrying a scrambled service.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

slimm said:


> Just received 9.1 today. The only strange thing I noticed was that the Tivo restarted twice before applying the service update. Other than that, everything works as before. This is with the 750 DB35/MX1 combo.


Phew! :up:


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

moyekj said:


> They may be required to pass PSIP info from broadcasters, but broadcasters may not necessarily provide PSIP in their feeds to cable companies. When I contacted my cable company they said the HD locals with missing PSIP they receive via fiber optic link (not OTA) and those do not contain PSIP info to begin with, hence nothing to pass on. Of course I don't know if that is the truth or not but that is what I was told... I tend to believe them because 2 local HD channels (Fox and ABC) do have the PSIP information, so it's not like they are intentionally or accidently blocking PSIP.


That is correct. The passing through requirement does not encompass generating PSIP from scratch if it is not present from the broadcaster.

However, I will relate 2 stories from my cable system.

I also noticed some channels had PSIP while others did not. FOX, CBS, ABC had PSIP but NBC did not. I asked them why this was happening. They gave me the same reply they told you. I examined the PSIP for other cities within my region and some had PSIP for NBC. It was doubtful to me that my cable company received multiple feeds for NBC since it was the same station. I asked them again why NBC did not have PSIP, this time a little more forceably, quoting FCC. This got them to do more research and they found my head-end was configured improperly and the PSIP didn't get passed through. They fixed the problem and now I have PSIP for NBC.

The second story is my region has a PBS station that used to have all the PSIP information properly transmitted, the HD channel and the 4 multi-cast SD channels. The way it worked is during the daytime, they would broadcast 4 SD channels and at night they would broadcast 1 HD + 1 SD. A little later on, they decided to give my cable company a special HD feed that ran 24x7. When that new feed got mapped onto my system, I lost PSIP for the PBS channel. Went through the same inquiry process. In this case it turns out the PBS channel did not have the proper equipment to generate PSIP for the new 24x7 HD feed, so my cable company didn't receive any PSIP. Some folks in my area complained to the PBS channel and at first they did not want to spend the money for a new PSIP generator, but somehow a few weeks later, the 24x7 HD feed started getting PSIP information. I don't know if they bought another PSIP generator, or they were able to configure things better so the original generator worked for the OTA feed and the cable feed.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Where the heck do you live that *multiple* people complained to a *PBS* station about *PSIP data*?!


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> Where the heck do you live that *multiple* people complained to a *PBS* station about *PSIP data*?!


San Francisco market, KQED, probably the second largest PBS station group in the country next to the PBS station in Boston.


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## GuysInCT (Apr 30, 2002)

TiVoPony said:


> Just to be clear for everyone...the official rollout has not yet begun.
> 
> ... If everything continues to go well, the big switch will be thrown soon enough.
> 
> ...


Hmm, i wonder what 'the big switch' looks like. Is it a big green button, in the shape of a Thumbs Up? Who gets to push it? Do you have a party when the lucky person actually hits that button? Any cam pics of the event? It would be cool if a beta tester (not that there are or ever were any beta programs or beta testers) with a high post count, or most useful bug reports, gets to hit the button.

Cheers.


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## MediaLivingRoom (Dec 10, 2002)

GuysInCT said:


> Hmm, i wonder what 'the big switch' looks like. Is it a big green button, in the shape of a Thumbs Up? Who gets to push it? Do you have a party when the lucky person actually hits that button? Any cam pics of the event? It would be cool if a beta tester (not that there are or ever were any beta programs or beta testers) with a high post count, or most useful bug reports, gets to hit the button.
> 
> Cheers.


More like a roulette wheel.


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## Saxion (Sep 18, 2006)

mportuesi said:


> Oh, god not the QAM remapping argument again.
> 
> Can't you people use a different thread for that?


It keeps coming up because it is very important for a number of people. Discussing it in the context of its inclusion in the latest FW update is appropriate.


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## Saxion (Sep 18, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Really? 'Cause there's a fraction of a handful of people here who actuall have that experience.


I'm sorry that the Buffalo, NY market is so messed up, but really, the above is a patently absurd statement. Most cablecos do follow FCC regulations, and compliance is getting better all the time. It's the rule, not the exception, that local broadcast channels received over clear QAM include accurate PSIP data.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

Asking whether it's included is appropriate, yes. Continuing to discuss it once it's confirmed as _not_ being included isn't.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

silypuddy said:


> So has anyone found out what is in 9.1 other than bug fixes and and a snazzier ui? I have 9.1 on my THD but not my S2, and I really haven't noticed any differences...


I though there is added TTG/MRV code for S3 and Tivo HD.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Saxion said:


> I'm sorry that the Buffalo, NY market is so messed up, but really, the above is a patently absurd statement. Most cablecos do follow FCC regulations, and compliance is getting better all the time. It's the rule, not the exception, that local broadcast channels received over clear QAM include accurate PSIP data.


Based on reading about the topic here for almost a year, many more people do NOT get accurate PSIP data than do.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

yunlin12 said:


> I though there is added TTG/MRV code for S3 and Tivo HD.


The framework's there (presumably, with 9.x) but hasn't been activated yet. Supposedly in November.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

silypuddy said:


> So has anyone found out what is in 9.1 other than bug fixes and and a snazzier ui? I have 9.1 on my THD but not my S2, and I really haven't noticed any differences...


The main change was Advanced WishLists and putting in the groundwork for MRV and TTG on the S3 and HD units.

And bringing S2 and S3 to the same similar codebase which will help future development.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

silypuddy said:


> So has anyone found out what is in 9.1 other than bug fixes and and a snazzier ui? I have 9.1 on my THD but not my S2, and I really haven't noticed any differences...


 Supposedly the most obvious change is Advanced Wishlists discussed earlier in this thread.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

cwoody222 said:


> Based on reading about the topic here for almost a year, many more people do NOT get accurate PSIP data than do.


You are talking about a moving target so the data from a year ago (6 months ago, etc.) is not necessarily valid today.

If there is any change in PSIP status for a cable system, it is only going in the direction of adding PSIP information (as the FCC regulations have mandated). Cable companies are not moving in the other direction and taking away PSIP information. Thus over time more and more cable systems will become in compliance with FCC regulations.

As has been mentioned repeatedly, the folks who want to use their S3/HD on digital cable for HD locals sans CableCARDs have FCC regulations are on their side.

If you would like to get useful data supporting your position, I suggest doing a real poll. Otherwise, using back of knapkin estimations, one could just as easily say, based on the responses to your earlier post, automatic QAM mapping using PSIP would actually be useful to more folks than think it is useless.


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

sfhub said:


> ...
> 
> 1.1.2 Cable
> The following PSIP data *shall be included* in all ATSC-compliant Transport Streams to be transmitted via cable:
> ...


I may be wrong, but I believe you are misreading the CVCT requirement.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

cwoody222 said:


> The main change was Advanced WishLists and putting in the groundwork for MRV and TTG on the S3 and HD units.
> 
> And bringing S2 and S3 to the same similar codebase which will help future development.


Also when there is an emergency broadcast issued by the cable company the S3 will continue to record after the broadcast. IMHO, a major issue even though I've only had it happen once.


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## ThreeSoFar'sBro (Oct 10, 2004)

Since receiving the update, I've had to pull CC 1 out and re-seat it each morning, as I am losing the digital channels (above 100) on it each night.

Anyone else have this issue?

EDIT: It just happened in the middle of the day...I guess it has nothing to do with the evening update.


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## chipvideo (Sep 25, 2006)

Does anyone know if we will ever get the correct colorspace from this unit instead of the RGB. 4:2:2 would be nice.


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

chipvideo said:


> Does anyone know if we will ever get the correct colorspace from this unit instead of the RGB. 4:2:2 would be nice.


Good Question. I can get YCBCr 4:4:4 but not 4:2:2.

- Rich


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

wierdo said:


> I may be wrong, but I believe you are misreading the CVCT requirement.


Please explain. "Shall" is pretty clearly understood to be mandatory when used in specs.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

chipvideo said:


> Does anyone know if we will ever get the correct colorspace from this unit instead of the RGB. 4:2:2 would be nice.


For my HDMI connection TiVo S3 is sending YCbCr 4:4:4. I tried forcing RGB on the TV side but S3 did not re-negotiate RGB when I turned it off/on. How are you determining your TiVo is sending RGB?


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

sfhub said:


> For my HDMI connection TiVo S3 is sending YCbCr 4:4:4. I tried forcing RGB on the TV side but S3 did not re-negotiate RGB when I turned it off/on. How are you determining your TiVo is sending RGB?


I am using a Lumagen Radiance scaler that reports the color space. By default, I get 4:4:4 if I turn off 4:4:4 broadcast in the scaler, the S3 sends RGB.

- Rich


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## randymac88 (Feb 29, 2004)

So, I wait with baited breath while my Tivo HD "prepares the service update", which "could take up to an hour, possibly longer". I had no idea it would take this long...I forced a call and restarted in the 7th inning of a 1-run pennant race game, and will now miss the rest of the game! Ahh! I wish there was some warning...

Anyway, is anyone able to summarize what this update actually DOES? I guess I'll find out soon enough, but just curious, while I wait...

EDIT: Duh. Just read the posts on the previous page. To think I'm now one of those who doesn't actually read before posting. My bad.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

sfhub said:


> The second story is my region has a PBS station that used to have all the PSIP information properly transmitted, the HD channel and the 4 multi-cast SD channels.


Hmm, I get over cable:
9-1 which I think is KQED-HD
9-2 which I think is KQED Encore

then some other KQED subchannels are in the high tens range.. 77-x or 79-x I think.

Is that something I could complain to Comcast in Sunnyvale about and they'd actually do something about it?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

mattack said:


> Hmm, I get over cable:
> 9-1 which I think is KQED-HD
> 9-2 which I think is KQED Encore
> 
> ...


They never fixed the SD multicast channels for KQED after the 24x7 feed came online. I don't know if it is misconfiguration or some limitation of how the feeds got split. You could complain. I think few people cared once the HD channel came up with PSIP info so probably nobody complained about it.


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## SC0TLANDF0REVER (Dec 9, 2001)

Well, it seems I just rec'd the Service Update.
I paused the TiVo to use the restroom and when I came back, it had the 'Almost there.' screen, then the 'installing Service Update' screen. 

:crossingfingers: this goes well

Edit: @ 4.55AM and it's all done. That was fast


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## SC0TLANDF0REVER (Dec 9, 2001)

joelkfla said:


> Advanced WishLists!
> 
> - Multiple Keywords and/or Title Keywords
> - Multiple Actors and Directors
> ...


I've always thought that IMDB could use this funtionality to search for movies that have teams of ppl like Samuel Jackson/Travolta.


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## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

S3:My Fall Update appears to have arrived overnight (I checked after reading this thread).

So I have restarted the tivo and shall see in a few minutes, I hope..... (sheesh, that was fast)...
just walked downstairs again and it is INSTALLED and updated. No time to test this morning shower and work call.... Oh, I should check the older S2

Not on the S2, yet.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

sfhub said:


> If you would like to get useful data supporting your position, I suggest doing a real poll.


OK.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=367744


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## DeathRider (Dec 30, 2006)

Saxion said:


> It keeps coming up because it is very important for a number of people. Discussing it in the context of its inclusion in the latest FW update is appropriate.


I wouldn't mind that functionality if my cableco didn't change the mapping so often...


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

sfhub said:


> Please explain. "Shall" is pretty clearly understood to be mandatory when used in specs.


I agree with the meaning of shall, I disagree with what you think the minimum CVCT referred to in your quotation of the regulations means. Only the mapping of channels in the transport stream is required. There (by my interpretation) is no requirement that the cable company pass the broadcast channel number (or cable channel number, for that matter).

Essentially, I take it to mean the literal minimum required to allow a bog standard TS decoder to parse the various program streams contained within the transport stream.

Even if your interpretation that they must include a virtual channel number, there's no requirement that that information be what the broadcaster sent, nor that it be meaningful in the sense that it maps to the broadcaster's OTA or cable company assigned "channel".

As I said before, perhaps I'm just being dense.


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

SC0TLANDF0REVER said:


> I've always thought that IMDB could use this funtionality to search for movies that have teams of ppl like Samuel Jackson/Travolta.


Clearly you have never clicked the "more" option next to the IMDB search "Go" button...

http://imdb.com/name-search

Note other search options to the left of that page.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Since receiving the update, I've had to pull CC 1 out and re-seat it each morning, as I am losing the digital channels (above 100) on it each night.
> 
> Anyone else have this issue?
> 
> EDIT: It just happened in the middle of the day...I guess it has nothing to do with the evening update.


Do you have a Series 3? What kind of CC do you have in Slot 1? I have an M-Card in slot 1 (running in single stream mode) that is giving me issues today. I also can't tune anything above 100 here on TW Columbus. CC in slot 1 (a single stream card) is working fine. I am still running 8.3.1 however.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Why does "Browse By Channel" always start with the lowest channel? It's very annoying


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

wierdo said:


> I agree with the meaning of shall, I disagree with what you think the minimum CVCT referred to in your quotation of the regulations means. Only the mapping of channels in the transport stream is required. *There (by my interpretation) is no requirement that the cable company pass the broadcast channel number (or cable channel number, for that matter).*
> 
> Essentially, I take it to mean the literal minimum required to allow a bog standard TS decoder to parse the various program streams contained within the transport stream.
> 
> ...


That is because you selectively removed the sections of the post which did not support your interpretation:



> (D) *Each channel shall be identified by a one- or two-part channel number and a textual channel name;*
> ...
> *Federal regulations adopted by the FCC (47 CFR 76.640) require cable operators to include A/65 PSIP data including virtual channel tables and event information to describe services carried in-the-clear, when such PSIP data is made available to them from the content provider.*





sfhub said:


> ===
> 
> *CFR 76.640*
> http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...s.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf
> ...


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## fizban (Feb 19, 2005)

For my previous post with regards to the ESATA, I have had no further problems since that last reboot. I have noticed that the skip works a little faster on non-HD shows and still lags on the HD shows.

The other thing I noticed is, well I have to explain my hookup first. I have my Tivo S3 hooked up in my living room with a HD TV. I had a S2 prior to this and ran a cable from the S2 to my bedroom, that along with a IR transmitter allowed me to watch Tivo in my bedroom also with the same unit. Well I was a little disappointed that there was no cable out on the S3 but I figured a way to correct this. I bought an RF modulator and used it to send a signal from the S3 into the cable running to my bedroom. This worked great, no problems except I could not watch HBO or Showtime on my bedroom TV, live or recorded. When I would try to watch the show I would get a screen that said the show could not be shown using the HDMI cable. Weird because I wasn't using it....

Well with the new update I can now watch HBO and Showtime on my bedroom TV, live and recorded and even older recorded shows. They must have changed something with regards to these outputs on these channels. 

Just thought I would pass this along as something new with the update.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

fizban said:


> For my previous post with regards to the ESATA, I have had no further problems since that last reboot. I have noticed that the skip works a little faster on non-HD shows and still lags on the HD shows.


 Good news about the eSATA drive. :up:

I tried the skip bit on our S3 (v8.3.1) and found the same thing. I suspect it has more to do with the fact that HD uses a great deal more data than SD (HDD's are only so fast) than the software version.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Saw a new problem today that I've never seen with my S3. My 7-sec jump back button suddenly wouldn't work. It would only jump back to a certain point. Like it was "stuck" and couldn't go past a certain point. It did it twice during tonight's Ugly Betty and I could replicate the problem in those same two spots.

Weird.


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## kangolo (Sep 14, 2002)

Guide filtering seems much quicker now - almost instant.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Saw a new problem today that I've never seen with my S3. My 7-sec jump back button suddenly wouldn't work. It would only jump back to a certain point. Like it was "stuck" and couldn't go past a certain point. It did it twice during tonight's Ugly Betty and I could replicate the problem in those same two spots.
> 
> Weird.


I see that once a long while on some shows on my S3, seems Tivo jumps back by estimating the data size appropriate for 7 sec. Sometimes there is something in the data that confuses it I think.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

ncbagwell said:


> Woo Hoo!! This is exactly the feature I have been waiting on! I am a big UNC fan and want to get all of the football and basketball stuff. However, my "NORTH CAROLINA" Sports/Basketball or Sports/Football WishLists also pick up all of the North Carolina State crap I don't want. This is great. Can't wait to get the update and play around with it.


So if you set a wishlist for North Carolina, but not State, won't it skip recording NC beat down on NCST?


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

sfhub said:


> That is because you selectively removed the sections of the post which did not support your interpretation:


Nothing in any of that says that they have to pass it through unmolested. It would be an onerous requirement for the cable company if they were required to use whatever virtual channel table the broadcaster sent, as the broadcaster's choice of numbering may be wildly incompatible with the cable company's numbering scheme.

Many systems don't use the broadcast channel numbers, after all.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

wierdo said:


> Nothing in any of that says that they have to pass it through unmolested. *It would be an onerous requirement for the cable company if they were required to use whatever virtual channel table the broadcaster sent*, as the broadcaster's choice of numbering may be wildly incompatible with the cable company's numbering scheme.
> 
> Many systems don't use the broadcast channel numbers, after all.


I don't understand your assertion that it would be a onerous requirement for the cable company to pass through the virtual channel PSIP mapping provided by broadcaster.

The cable equipment doesn't use any of this in-band PSIP channel mapping. They have a complete separate channel table that has nothing to do with PSIP that is downloaded OOB. The presence or non-presence of in-band PSIP channel mapping has zero effect on how cable STB equipment works. It has zero effect on how CableCARDs work.

BTW the broadcaster's numbering scheme is not some random #. It is registered with the FCC to be their assigned station # for OTA ATSC transmissions. A person who connected a clear QAM receiver to the cable and received pass through PSIP channel mapping would be getting the same channel #s as they would if they connected using an OTA antenna.

In any event the cable company has a computer that converts the PSIP information from one format to another. Once that is setup there isn't any onerous burden that I can see.

Many posts back you made the assertion that the PSIP channel mapping information is not required to be passed through. It sounds like you have dropped that and have now switched to a new assertion that the PSIP channel number will be passed through, but it might be changed by the cable company to match their own numbering.

Regarding that, we already know the cable company *must* change some of the PSIP channel mapping info because they have to change the modulation mode from 8VSB to QAM and they also have to substitute in their own RF carrier frequency. This is done by the previously mentioned PSIP translating device/computer.

There are only 2 logical choices, leave the ATSC-style major.minor numbering in place unchanged or change the numbering to match cable-style major-only numbering. Any other "molestation" as you call it can easily be argued to serve no purpose other than to effectively break the usefulness of PSIP channel mapping.

In both those cases, whether FOX is mapped to 2.1 or 702, TiVo would be able to provide guide data for the channel, thus we have achieved the goal of allowing TiVo S3/HD to operate on HD locals w/o need for CableCARD.


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

I think the fundamental disconnect here is that you are interpreting the regulations in the way most favorable to the broadcaster's, TiVo's, and the end user's point of view, while I am pointing out that they can be interpreted by the cable companies to mean something different, if they so choose.

Also, the reason why I call it onerous is that many cable companies choose not to use broadcast channel numbering for their basic tier. If the PSIP data were merely passed through from the broadcaster, that could cause confusion and support calls due to the duplication of channel numbers between clear QAM devices and their own boxes or CableCARD devices. That's essentially the same argument that TiVo uses to justify their refusal to provide any sort of mapping functionality in their HD products.

I haven't changed my position that there seems to be no airtight requirement that a *useful* (to you or I for the purposes of guide data) virtual channel table be passed.

Just FWIW, the cable company here has gone backwards in that respect. Previously they were all over the map, providing no VCT for a couple of the rebroadcast channels, providing a mapping to their channel number for another, and passing through the VCT unmolested from a fourth. Now they pass no VCT at all.

Regardless of whether we argue that any changes to the numbering only break the usefulness of the PSIP channel mapping, the cable companies would argue (and I would agree) that the regulations can be interpreted to allow that.

Note that I'm all for a useful mapping, I just don't think the regulations are as airtight on that point as you indicate. If only logic entered into any of this from the cable company's end!


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

cwoody222 said:


> Saw a new problem today that I've never seen with my S3. My 7-sec jump back button suddenly wouldn't work. It would only jump back to a certain point. Like it was "stuck" and couldn't go past a certain point. It did it twice during tonight's Ugly Betty and I could replicate the problem in those same two spots.
> 
> Weird.


I used to have this same problem (accompanied by very spotty 3X FF). I found it was only on 720P content. I changed my output to 1080i Fixed and it went away.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Hmm... I'm already on 1080i Fixed.


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## Televisionary (Oct 24, 2000)

I served on my town's Cable Committee when our cableco's franchise was renewed, and part of the process was to determine the level of compliance with the previous contract.

I was irate at the liberties the cableco had taken with the English language. The most egregious were phrases such as, "the cable system shall be capable of bidirectional communication." (The Local Origination people wanted to broadcast live town events from anywhere there was a cable outlet.) The cableco had built a one-way system, and when questioned, said, "It is _capable_ of bidirectional communication. All we have to do is replace the existing amplifiers with two-way amplifiers." Of course, they'd need more money for this "build out."


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Televisionary said:


> I served on my town's Cable Committee when our cableco's franchise was renewed, and part of the process was to determine the level of compliance with the previous contract.
> 
> I was irate at the liberties the cableco had taken with the English language. The most egregious were phrases such as, "the cable system shall be capable of bidirectional communication." (The Local Origination people wanted to broadcast live town events from anywhere there was a cable outlet.) The cableco had built a one-way system, and when questioned, said, "It is _capable_ of bidirectional communication. All we have to do is replace the existing amplifiers with two-way amplifiers." Of course, they'd need more money for this "build out."


If that is the way that you phrased the requirement I'd have to say the problem was with your own wording, not with the cable company. All cable systems are capable of two-way communications. Just put a cable box on the outlet and it will communicate back to the head end.


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## TaterTot24 (Aug 26, 2007)

I have had my HDTivo for a couple of days and I have repeatedly forced updates -- but I still have software version 8.1.7.

If I am to understand correctly is there a version 8.3 update and then a version 9.1 update... Does this mean that I am 2 updates behind?

Not sure why I cannot receive the updates (broadband)....


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

TaterTot24 said:


> I have had my HDTivo for a couple of days and I have repeatedly forced updates -- but I still have software version 8.1.7.
> 
> If I am to understand correctly is there a version 8.3 update and then a version 9.1 update... Does this mean that I am 2 updates behind?
> 
> Not sure why I cannot receive the updates (broadband)....


8.3 is S3 only. Sounds like you are 1 level behind.... Just like my S3 which is at 8.3


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

I give up. What does the FCC and various cable co wording of bidirectional have to do with the Fall Update. I wish you thread hijackers would start your own thread and leave the Fall Update to the folks interested in the Fall Update 9.1


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

TaterTot24 said:


> If I am to understand correctly is there a version 8.3 update and then a version 9.1 update... Does this mean that I am 2 updates behind?


The most current version for the THD is 8.1.7c.

The 9.1 software is only going out to a limited set of boxes, so it's not "officially" being rolled out to everyone yet.

So, if you've got 8.1.7c, you're current.


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## rbienstock (May 8, 2007)

I've gotten 9.1 on two of my S3s so far. One is pretty full, the other is about 20% full. On the full machine, it takes 10-15 seconds to go from the Tivo menu to the Now Playing screen. Basically, you see the background for the Now Playing screen, but it isn't populated with data. Sometimes even longer than 15 seconds, and one time the screen never appeared, and the unit had to be rebooted. The unit with only about 10 shows seems to work fine. I'm going to try to record a bunch of stuff to see if being full creates the problem. FWIW, I have my Now Playing options set to use folders and sort by date. I haven't tried changing this to see if it makes a difference.


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## NCTRNL (Sep 24, 2007)

My S3 Refurb that I just got has 8.1 I believe...


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

wierdo said:


> Also, the reason why I call it onerous is that many cable companies choose not to use broadcast channel numbering for their basic tier. *If the PSIP data were merely passed through from the broadcaster, that could cause confusion and support calls due to the duplication of channel numbers between clear QAM devices and their own boxes or CableCARD devices.* That's essentially the same argument that TiVo uses to justify their refusal to provide any sort of mapping functionality in their HD products.


I still don't see this point. Are you saying PSIP channel mapping that matches the OTA assignments or alternatively the cable-style single number channel numbering scheme would be *more* confusing than 88.1, which presumably the cable company would be willing to live with if they didn't allow the PSIP channel mapping? Those clear QAM channels are going to get a number one way or another.

TiVo has not used any argument to justify not having mapping. They haven't commented at all. TiVo already handles the duplicate channels you are saying because they handle OTA + cable configurations where you have OTA enabled and you have digital cable enabled.

BTW the issue is not whether the numbering style is ATSC-style major.minor or Cable style major-only numbering. The issue is whether PSIP channel numbering is present if the broadcaster provides it. Assuming the broadcaster provides 2.1, regardless of whether the cable company leaves 2.1 or changes to 702, TiVo can work without CableCARDs. You do realize that the broadcaster can choose to provide both the TVCT and CVCT on their OTA signal so if they really wanted to force the issue they can provide both and make sure they are the same?

We already have examples of the 702 case with S3s in Austin. They can work without CableCARDs.

The only issue would be if the broadcaster provides 2.1 and cable decides to drop PSIP channel mapping completely or if cable decided to assign some arbitrary numbing like 81.233.

I think the disconnect is actually that you have made an assertion but are not looking for additional information to back up your position. Certainly in 7 years, if your interpretation that cable could either drop the PSIP VCT channel numbering or change the numbering to something totally arbitrary was prevalent, there would be some articles or filings from the broadcast industry discussing the loophole you are asserting.

My position is that if PSIP channel numbering is present in the ATSC broadcast signal, PSIP channel numbering must be passed through on the cable rebroadcast(subject to modifications of obvious fields like modulation type and carrier frequency)

The only discussion I am aware of between CEA, NAB, NCTA is whether the channel numbering is passed through unchanged as 2.1 or adjusted to map to cable numbering scheme of 702. In both these cases, TiVo can provide guide data automatically without CableCARD. There is no issue of a third case where the cable company "molests" the channel numbering and creates a totally useless arbitrary channel #. If you feel there is, please provide a reference where this is discussed.

http://broadcastengineering.com/infrastructure/broadcasting_psip_numbers/


> Branding over cable
> It goes without saying that maintaining channel branding over cable distribution is important for broadcasters. The existence of differing cable-channel lineups is causing concern among many broadcasters because it implies that cable will be tearing apart terrestrial multichannel ATSC streams and reassembling them based on the cable operator's agenda or channel plan. *But the FCC considers PSIP information to be related to the primary digital video signal,* and has ordered cable operators to pass this information through their systems. *The NCTA and CEA agreed in February 2000 that cable operators will pass most PSIP tables (STT, MGT, VCT, and EIT-0 through EIT-3) when they appear in the stream* (subject to fairly stringent bandwidth limits). But this set of tables doesn't include all the tables typically needed to build a robust program guide, since the NCTA exempted higher-level Event Information Tables (EITs) or Extended Text Tables (ETTs) from the agreement. Of course, broadcasters would like cable companies to allow all the PSIP tables in the broadcast stream to pass through, so they must sort out obvious issues with cable companies. Finally, if the FCC orders cable operators to carry all digital video channels broadcast to the general public, it stands to reason that it will require cable operators to pass channel-mapping PSIP information for these channels as well.


What we have here is another source that has said if PSIP VCT info is present in the stream it will be passed through. We also have an outside source confirming the FCC considers PSIP information to be related to the primary digital videl signal. The implication of that statement is the PSIP is not something the FCC expects cable to change willy-nilly to something totally arbitrary.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

mchief said:


> I give up. What does the FCC and various cable co wording of bidirectional have to do with the Fall Update. I wish you thread hijackers would start your own thread and leave the Fall Update to the folks interested in the Fall Update 9.1


+1 Have to agree on this one. :up: Not that the cableco issue isn't valid, but this thread's title is "New TiVo Series 3 Fall 2007 Software Update".

I'd like to read posts about the Fall Upgrade and not have to slog through an ongoing argument about cablecos and FCC regulations. How about taking it to a new thread? Thanks.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

NCTRNL said:


> My S3 Refurb that I just got has 8.1 I believe...


No worries, that's how all S3's ship. It should automatically upgrade to v8.3.1 in the next few days...and _eventually _ to v9.1x.


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## Saxion (Sep 18, 2006)

Anyone confirm whether v9.1 includes M-Card (Multi-Stream mode) support for the S3?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Saxion said:


> Anyone confirm whether v9.1 includes M-Card (Multi-Stream mode) support for the S3?


No, it doesn't.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5530601&highlight=mcard#post5530601


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## cr33p (Jan 2, 2005)

richsadams said:


> +1 Have to agree on this one. :up: Not that the cableco issue isn't valid, but this thread's title is "New TiVo Series 3 Fall 2007 Software Update".
> 
> I'd like to read posts about the Fall Ugrade and not have to slog through an ongoing argument about cablecos and FCC regulations. How about taking it to a new thread? Thanks.


+1


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## slimm (Sep 19, 2003)

+2


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

anyone else who's gotten the update on an S2 having problems with things converted with Videora and sent from computer to Tivo? I'm getting audio only


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

OK. I did something stupid on Thursday. I had bought the WD 1TB SATA drive and MX-1 enclosure to add capacity to my S3. So Thursday was my day to install it. When I got up Thursday morning I found out that I had received the new 9.1 software update. Then I committed that old cardinal sin - never make a hardware change and software change at the same time. I did it.

Everything seemed to go well and I was happy with 165 HD hours on my S3. But now, I have severe pixilation one 4 HD channels, and one channel does not come in at all. The channels with pixalation have a signal strength of 55-65. The other has "no signal". I rebooted again, but no change.

Now I have to figure out the cause. Is it:

1. The new hard drive. I doubt that since it is constant only on 4 channels.
2. Software update. Possible, but again why only on certain channels?
3. Cablecards. Always a likely culprit. But they've been working fine for four months.
4. Cable strength problem. Always a possibility. Maybe Comcast just upgraded a few neighbors and sapped my signal.

Fun and games.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

jrm01 said:


> OK. I did something stupid on Thursday. I had bought the WD 1TB SATA drive and MX-1 enclosure to add capacity to my S3. So Thursday was my day to install it. When I got up Thursday morning I found out that I had received the new 9.1 software update. Then I committed that old cardinal sin - never make a hardware change and software change at the same time. I did it.
> 
> Everything seemed to go well and I was happy with 165 HD hours on my S3. But now, I have severe pixilation one 4 HD channels, and one channel does not come in at all. The channels with pixalation have a signal strength of 55-65. The other has "no signal". I rebooted again, but no change.
> 
> ...


  Yikes! IMO it sounds more like a CC/signal issue sparked by the software upgrade (that's been reported at least a couple of times) and probably has nothing to do with the eSATA drive.

However, were it me, I'd divorce the drive since you probably don't have many if any programs to lose anyway and take it out of the equation until the rest is resolved. Simply unplug TiVo, disconnect the eSATA cable and plug TiVo back in. Follow the divorce screen instructions (three thumbs down, etc.) and let it boot up. Likely you'll see the same issues, but if not let us know because that will be a first and valuable info.

It seems that TiVo's relationship with some CC's is fragile at best. You might try pulling and reseating them. You could try to run guided setup again as well. Then you can always call Comcast who will display their normal caring attitude for TiVo owners.  If you're only seeing problems in one frequency group the CC's may need to be "re-hit". And/or you can give TiVo a call...tell them about the upgrade and sudden loss of channels and see what they suggest. If there's a bug of some sort, they need to know. That's what these early test rollouts are all about.

Keep us posted!


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Thanks for all the suggestions. It now appears that the disease has spread and the pixalation is on virtually all the HD channels. I think that my first step is just going to be putting an in-line amp on the coax and see what that does. I have a 10dB around here somewhere, but I think I'll save that for a project tomorrow (after a.m. golf). While I was typing the original post my doorbell rang and it was Fed-Ex with my new Tivo HD for the bedroom. Think I'll leave it in the box until I get this resolved.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

OK. I lied. I decided to play around with the signal strength. I put the 10 dB amp on my cable, and I lost all my HD channels completely. So I thought, maybe my signal is too strong. So I took off the amp and put a passive splitter in place to attenuate the signal (-3.5dB). My missing HD channel came back with minimal signal strength (65) and the four that were at 65 strength went to 75 (still pixallation, but less).

So I decided to disconnect the 30 dB amp I have in the basement (due to the main cable being splite 3-4 times). Well, I lost all HD channels completely with that. So put that back in place, and changed the attenuating splitter to a 3-way using the -7 dB leg. That was worse.

So, the -3.5 dB works best, but still not good. I'm beginning to believe it has to be a signal strength issue (but why now all of a sudden) and not eSata drive or 9.1 software update.

Tomorrow's problem.

Well, I got up at 6 a.m. to see what it would be like with my neighbors all in bed. Same problem, one HD channel "no signal" and four with severe pixalation. I checked the Diagnostic screens.

1. Frequencies are 5430000 for three channels, but 5380000 for the missing channel

2. Signal strength from 55-60

3. SNR from 28-30

I want to believe that it is just a coincidence that it all happened the same day I got 9.1 update. How can a software update cause the loss of signal strength? I'm just trying to avoid a comcast truck roll. Can a re-authorization hit on the cablecard improve signal strength? I wouldn't think so.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

Anyone know whether the 9.1 update activates Kickstart option for eSATA drive addition on the TivoHD?


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## rbienstock (May 8, 2007)

I'm sorry to say that 9.1 has really made things worse on my machines. Not only is the Now Playing unbelieveably poky, but I now get this wierd skipping effect where what appears to happen is that small segments, less than a fraction of a second, are cut out. They are obvious because the image jerks slightly. Audio doesn't appear to be affected, but I'm not sure.


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

I spoke with a TiVo rep this morning, and she advised me that the 9.1 rollout was underway. Since I have a brand new S3, I was tol to expect it within the next 3-5 days.

Not sure if she was correct or not, but the CSR seems pretty knowledgeable about her stuff...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

One of my TiVoHD boxes got it yesterday. But no luck yet with my S3 or other TiVoHD boxes.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

rbienstock said:


> I'm sorry to say that 9.1 has really made things worse on my machines. Not only is the Now Playing unbelieveably poky, but I now get this wierd skipping effect where what appears to happen is that small segments, less than a fraction of a second, are cut out. They are obvious because the image jerks slightly. Audio doesn't appear to be affected, but I'm not sure.


Frustrating! 

I know during past upgrades that a lot of things were "poky" for a couple of days while TiVo re-indexed everything, NP lists, SP's, WL's, etc. and in particular the HD content. But after about three days everything came back up to speed.

AFAIK no one else has reported the weird skipping bit. I wonder if that has something to do with the indexing? Or if a reboot might help ...unplug TiVo, wait 10 to 15 seconds and plug it back in. If not, a call to TiVo might be in order.

Thanks and keep us posted.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Okeemike said:


> I spoke with a TiVo rep this morning, and she advised me that the 9.1 rollout was underway. Since I have a brand new S3, I was tol to expect it within the next 3-5 days.
> 
> Not sure if she was correct or not, but the CSR seems pretty knowledgeable about her stuff...


Interesting as that means they are no longer pushing v8.3.1 out. Since new S3's are upgraded (from v8.1x) almost immediately you'll likely see v9.1 before most of the rest of us!


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

Okeemike said:


> I spoke with a TiVo rep this morning, and she advised me that the 9.1 rollout was underway. Since I have a brand new S3, I was tol to expect it within the next 3-5 days.
> 
> Not sure if she was correct or not, but the CSR seems pretty knowledgeable about her stuff...


Don't want to bust your bubble but if you talked to a first line CSR they are handing you a standard message. Maybe you'll get lucky but they have not thrown the big switch yet so don't be disappointed if it takes a few weeks.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

richsadams said:


> Frustrating!
> 
> I know during past upgrades that a lot of things were "poky" for a couple of days while TiVo re-indexed everything, NP lists, SP's, WL's, etc. and in particular the HD content. But after about three days everything came back up to speed.
> 
> ...


I've had 9.1 for 3 days now and have had no problems with it. I did observe that the replay seemed to take a milisecond or two longer, now I'm not so sure. It may be that I got use to it. In anycase, it was no big deal.

I want to take the time to address some of the things I have read.

First it didn't remove 30 second skip and tick or slow it down. I did have to reset it after the update.

Second eSATA wasn't bothered in the least. Mine works just fine.

I personally am not all that thrilled with the advance wishlist but thats me. Others are probably going to love it.

I have no idea what Creston technology is but it sounds good so I guess I'm glad I got it. 

It doesn't appear "buggy" to me. Works quite well imho. I'm still waiting for the real goodies to come, MRV, TTG, TTCB.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

This may have been mentioned, but with the update on both my S2 and S3, 30 sec. skip no longer needs to be reentered after power outages/reboots.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

The last 2 posts seem to be saying opposite things.


ldudek said:


> First it didn't remove 30 second skip and tick or slow it down. I did have to reset it after the update.





cherry ghost said:


> This may have been mentioned, but with the update on both my S2 and S3, 30 sec. skip no longer needs to be reentered after power outages/reboots.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

sfhub said:


> The last 2 posts seem to be saying opposite things.


OK. Here's how it worked with me. After the update I did indeed have to re-enter the 30 sec skip code. However when I was cleaning I accidentally uplugged my S3 so I had to reboot again (same day). When I rebooted I entered the skip code thinking I had to and it actually toggled it off. Most of you probably know that the code itself is a toggle.

So cherry ghost is correct. It seems that you don't need to redo the skip code except right after the reboot with the 9.1 software.

Hope that helps.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I may have reentered it immediately following the update(can't remember), but have not had to since and I've had one power outage(S2 and S3) and a few eSata related reboots(S3) since the update.


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

jrm01 said:


> If that is the way that you phrased the requirement I'd have to say the problem was with your own wording, not with the cable company. All cable systems are capable of two-way communications. Just put a cable box on the outlet and it will communicate back to the head end.


No, there are plenty of cable systems that can't do that upstream communication. They're dwindling, to be sure, thanks to the lure of offering cable modem and voice service, but ten years ago most cable modems were one way only, and the back channel was provided over dial up!

Besides, _capable_ means _capable_, as in "I am capable of writing a post on this forum," rather than "I am capable of bench pressing 1000 pounds," which I might be, if I spent several years training, but could not in any sense do that today.

Anyway, back on topic, I really wish I had 9.1, as I want to use the advanced wishlists already!


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

ldudek said:


> I'm still waiting for the real goodies to come, MRV, TTG, TTCB.


 +1 :up:


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

ldudek said:


> So cherry ghost is correct. It seems that you don't need to redo the skip code except right after the reboot with the 9.1 software.
> .


RFO! :up: 
Now I can free up the last of the Macro Buttons on my MX-500 (remote). If this is true, then THANK YOU TIVO! Having to re-enter it was a pain. Even with a Macro.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

jrm01 said:


> OK. I did something stupid on Thursday. I had bought the WD 1TB SATA drive and MX-1 enclosure to add capacity to my S3. So Thursday was my day to install it. When I got up Thursday morning I found out that I had received the new 9.1 software update. Then I committed that old cardinal sin - never make a hardware change and software change at the same time. I did it.
> 
> Everything seemed to go well and I was happy with 165 HD hours on my S3. But now, I have severe pixilation one 4 HD channels, and one channel does not come in at all. The channels with pixalation have a signal strength of 55-65. The other has "no signal". I rebooted again, but no change.
> 
> ...


Just an update on this issue. I have played around trying to increase and decrease the signal strength with no luck. I decided to check some of the recordings that were made since Thursday. Three HD recordings that I checked had the proper recording length, but when I hit Play I got a message Error While Recording: The DVR was not able to record since there was no signal on the channel. I deleted them, and decided to check an analog recording. When I hit Play, TiVo rebooted. When it started back up it was on the GSOD. So now I am just waiting for it to end.

When it does end (assuming it does) I'll divorce the eSATA and reboot to see what happens then.

By the way, is Divorce the only option when removing the eSATA. I was hoping there was somekind of Trial Separation that I could use in case I wanted to put it back on.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

I know that I comitted another sin by posting this problem on another thread also, but I noticed that SCSIRAID was on that thread and wanted his input.

To make a long (very long) story short I found a bad connection for my coax into my UPS. I had the TiVo tuned to the diagnostic screen of a bad channel while I was fishing around with the cables and I noticed that when I grabbed the coax feed into the UPS the signal strength went from 57 to 85. I tightened the connection and straigtened out the cable and it seems to have fixed the problem.

Another software problem resolved.    

Now I can wait to see how this works out and then re-marry my eSATA (I had pulled it) and then get my new TiVo HD out of the box for the bedroom. This is becoming a full time job.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> To make a long (very long) story short I found a bad connection for my coax into my UPS. I had the TiVo tuned to the diagnostic screen of a bad channel while I was fishing around with the cables and I noticed that when I grabbed the coax feed into the UPS the signal strength went from 57 to 85. I tightened the connection and straigthened out the cable and it seems to have fixed the problem.
> 
> Another software problem resolved.


Thank you for posting the cause - I know some are quick to always point the finger at Tivo, but most of the time "sudden pixelization problems" aren't Tivo related.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

jrm01 said:


> I know that I comitted another sin by posting this problem on another thread also, but I noticed that SCSIRAID was on that thread and wanted his input.
> 
> To make a long (very long) story short I found a bad connection for my coax into my UPS. I had the TiVo tuned to the diagnostic screen of a bad channel while I was fishing around with the cables and I noticed that when I grabbed the coax feed into the UPS the signal strength went from 57 to 85. I tightened the connection and straigtened out the cable and it seems to have fixed the problem.
> 
> ...


Glad you fixed your issue, nothing more annoying than having to try to find the "needle in the haystack".

Interested in your thoughts that there is no software problem here though. Should the Tivo react to a weak signal on a recording by rebooting during an attempt to play back the video file and then present a GSOD? How can you feed that problem back in to Tivo without opening a trouble ticket? Would be nice if they had a way to do this.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

JRM01, Im glad that you found it. It might be worth your while to loosen and retighten all your coax connections and perhaps restructure them to eliminate the 'sequential' splitters and go to one larger port count splitter. 

Im still searching for my pixelation 'needle in the haystack'. 

Chimpware, Rebooting is not something I would expect from a bad signal... but one thing ive learned in my 29 year Electrical Engineering career is to never say never.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

My second TiVoHD got the update. Are the S3 boxes getting the update? None of my three S3 boxes have it yet.


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## ldudek (Sep 2, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> My second TiVoHD got the update. Are the S3 boxes getting the update? None of my three S3 boxes have it yet.


Are you serious? A brief look at even the last two pages of this thread talks about S3's receiving it. Mine did.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> My second TiVoHD got the update. Are the S3 boxes getting the update? None of my three S3 boxes have it yet.


Wow.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

ldudek said:


> I have no idea what Creston technology is but it sounds good so I guess I'm glad I got it.


http://www.crestron.com/

From their website...

"Crestron is the world's leading manufacturer of advanced control and automation systems, innovating technology and reinventing the way people live and work. Offering integrated solutions to control audio, video, computer, IP and environmental systems, Crestron streamlines technology, improving the quality of life for people in corporate boardrooms, conference rooms, classrooms, auditoriums, and in their homes."

So I assume this new update allows the Tivo S3 to interface and be controlled with their equipment.


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## mikesown (Nov 15, 2005)

George Cifranci said:


> http://www.crestron.com/
> 
> From their website...
> 
> ...


My friend has a Crestron system. It's seriously insane. It's for really rich people who have too much money on their hands. He has an entire rack in a closet filled with audio processing equipment and servers. When I walk into the closet, I can feel the warmth of the equipment.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Chimpware said:


> Glad you fixed your issue, nothing more annoying than having to try to find the "needle in the haystack".
> 
> Interested in your thoughts that there is no software problem here though. Should the Tivo react to a weak signal on a recording by rebooting during an attempt to play back the video file and then present a GSOD? How can you feed that problem back in to Tivo without opening a trouble ticket? Would be nice if they had a way to do this.


Yeah, I agree that there probably was a software (or hardware) glitch somewhere thee to cause the reboot in that situation. However, it would be hard to recreate, or even explain. If there were a simple way to submit a written on-line report to Tivo of a potential problem I would do it, but I'm not ready to get into the hassle of working thru CSRs who would want to go back to the basics.

I know it's lazy, but after spending five hours debugging and fixing this I'm just happy to enjoy my fruits. Besides, it's been 24 hours now without a problem (after I typed the last few words I got up and checked the stations again - all OK)and I'm ready to re-marry my eSATA and install my TiVo HD.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> JRM01, Im glad that you found it. It might be worth your while to loosen and retighten all your coax connections and perhaps restructure them to eliminate the 'sequential' splitters and go to one larger port count splitter.


Thanks for your help. Yes, I plan to check and tighten them all. I thought that port count splitters were for 24 ports and up. Are there some in the 8-10 port range?


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

jrm01 said:


> Thanks for your help. Yes, I plan to check and tighten them all. I thought that port count splitters were for 24 ports and up. Are there some in the 8-10 port range?


Yes... there are 2,3,4 and 8 way splitters. I wouldnt want to do more than an 8 way split out of a 15db amp though.... An 8 way splitter is -11db which offsets the +15 of the amp.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

ldudek said:


> Are you serious? A brief look at even the last two pages of this thread talks about S3's receiving it. Mine did.


Neither of mine has it, and I'm a bit miffed.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Televisionary said:


> I served on my town's Cable Committee when our cableco's franchise was renewed, and part of the process was to determine the level of compliance with the previous contract.
> 
> I was irate at the liberties the cableco had taken with the English language.


Interesting. The situation here was just the opposite. I don't know if UA Columbia was just more willing to meet the Franchise demands, or if they just didn't want to be sued, but when I was hired by the CATV company I was surprised to find how much money UA had spent complying with the Franchise agreement. They built not one but **TWO** two-way CATV networks. The entertainment network consisted of a sub-split system which carried 5 - 30 MHz upstream signals and 50 - 300 MHz downstream signals. Literally right next to the E-Net system - lashed to the very same steel strand - was a mid-split institutional network which carried 5 - 110 MHz upstream and 168-300 MHz downstream. The I-net was supposed to be used for city and municipal government and public access systems. It cost several million dollars, but went virtually unused for 20 years. The San Antonio City Hall had a feed back to the main CATV headend (all of 600 meters away), the local TV stations all had their video carried back to the main CATV headend, and the Convention center sent Spurs games and other feeds over it. The system was capable of carrying over 250 analog channels between the various trunks and over more than 1000 miles of plant, but it carried a total of 5 full time feeds and 2 intermittent feeds over a total of less than 30 miles of plant. When I left the company, all the I-net feeds have been switched to fiber, but the I-net system was stilll there, maintained and operational. It was completely empty.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Teeps said:


> If they don't fix the sound sync and pixelazation problems, what's the point?


What sound and pixelization problems? I don't have any more pixelization issues with the Series III than I did with the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR. I am having an odd sound problem lately, but only the last two weeks, and it does not seem to be related to any software - or at least not any new software.



Teeps said:


> Who gives a $#!& about wish list enhancements... I sure don't.


I surely do. The wishlist and category searches are what set the TiVo far apart from any other DVR. Without them, the TiVo is not all that much better than some of the other DVRs out there, and in some specific instances it would actually be in some ways inferior.


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## drew00001 (Jan 13, 2007)

Anyone? Anyone?


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## mercurial (Oct 17, 2002)

Huh...?


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

drew00001 said:


> Anyone? Anyone?


I personally am happy with my current sexual preference, but do let us know how that goes for you.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> Neither of mine has it, and I'm a bit miffed.


And again, if you've kept up with this thread, it has *clearly* been stated that only a small percent of TiVos have randomly received the update. And that the major rollout is a couple weeks after the random "final-test" rollout.

So you only need to be miffed for a little while longer. 

_edit: miff is over _


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

astrohip said:


> And again, if you've kept up with this thread, it has *clearly* been stated that only a small percent of TiVos have randomly received the update. And that the major rollout is a couple weeks after the random "final-test" rollout.
> 
> So you only need to be miffed for a little while longer.


A TiVo CSR advised me this past Sat that it was rolling out now.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

From past experience you'll be able to tell when the real release happens because the version # will no longer have that L5 component of the version #.


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## NCTRNL (Sep 24, 2007)

Mine's brand new and it updated to 8.3 right after I got it. Hoping for 9.1 soon...


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## randymac88 (Feb 29, 2004)

TivoHD user here, got the 9.1 update (i think that's what it was, but definitely a "9" series). Honestly, I don't really use wishlists so I haven't really noticed a single difference in interface or usability. But I guess there's good things in the pipeline though.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

Okeemike said:


> A TiVo CSR advised me this past Sat that it was rolling out now.


 Call a couple more of them and you are guaranteed to get conflicting responses. I think most CSR's learn about TiVo developments by reading their local newspaper.


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## JimParks (May 24, 2007)

Both of my S3's have had the 9 update for about a week.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

JimParks said:


> Both of my S3's have had the 9 update for about a week.


showoff....


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## Stu_Bee (Jan 15, 2002)

So since there is apparently no Priority Upgrade signup....

You think Tivo would consider priority upgrading those units under the same account? I have a friend whose two Series2 units no longer allow MRV, due to one unit being updated to 9.1.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Stu_Bee said:


> So since there is apparently no Priority Upgrade signup....
> 
> You think Tivo would consider priority upgrading those units under the same account? I have a friend whose two Series2 units no longer allow MRV, due to one unit being updated to 9.1.


I read somewhere (here?) that the initial roll out would be based on accounts, not units. That way, if you got one updated they would all be updated. However, my S3 was updated last Thursday, but my S2 is still on 8.3. I just installed a new THD, but it is still in catch up mode (8.1.7a).


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

We've gone ahead and flipped the big switch for the 9.1 software release and the priority list is now available.

For MRV to work properly for Series2 DVRs running 9.1, all S2 DVRs need to be running 9.1. Make sure you sign up all S2 DVRs on your account and have installed the software before trying to use MRV on your S2 DVRs. (did I mention S2??)
**MRV is not yet activated for Series3 & TiVo HD. This is currently scheduled for November. Stay tuned for more updates.

(p.s. Don't worry if the "friendly name" is not showing up on your S3 or TiVo HD DVR. That will be fixed shortly as well...currently scheduled for November  )


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## tboydsto (Dec 31, 2003)

Since the 9.1 update, both of my Series 3 boxes intermittently lose a CableCard. At first, I thought CableCard 1 seemed to be the issue, but tonight, CableCard 2 flaked out. The diagnostics all say that the hosed CableCard is working fine, but no HD or other digital channels are displayed (the screen is blank). Beyond the diagnostics, the hosed CableCard states it is getting ECMs and that decryption is OK, so it should not be cable company issue. I must also note that also that this problem seems to occur only during recordings, and once it starts, the CableCard remains hosed. If I force a restart, the CableCard starts working again. So far, I have missed 2 recordings, and my wife has missed 3 recordings. The only way to resolve the problem is a restart.

Is anyone else seeing a blank screen with CableCard on HD and digital channels?

Note this all just started with the update.

One last note, when this does showup, it happens on a recording, where the recording is a blank screen. The TiVo thinks it is recording a signals (as dictated by the diagnositcs), however nothing is actually displayed on the screen. Weird.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

tboydsto said:


> Since the 9.1 update, both of my Series 3 boxes intermittently lose a CableCard. At first, I thought CableCard 1 seemed to be the issue, but tonight, CableCard 2 flaked out. The diagnostics all say that the hosed CableCard is working fine, but no HD or other digital channels are displayed (the screen is blank). Beyond the diagnostics, the hosed CableCard states it is getting ECMs and that decryption is OK, so it should not be cable company issue. I must also note that also that this problem seems to occur only during recordings, and once it starts, the CableCard remains hosed. If I force a restart, the CableCard starts working again. So far, I have missed 2 recordings, and my wife has missed 3 recordings. The only way to resolve the problem is a restart.
> 
> Is anyone else seeing a blank screen with CableCard on HD and digital channels?
> 
> ...


Yikes!  If that happens to us I'll certainly be on the phone with TiVo. Let us know how it goes.

Edit: Have you tried running Guided Setup again?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TiVoJerry said:


> We've gone ahead and flipped the big switch for the 9.1 software release and the priority list is now available.
> 
> For MRV to work properly for Series2 DVRs running 9.1, all S2 DVRs need to be running 9.1. Make sure you sign up all S2 DVRs on your account and have installed the software before trying to use MRV on your S2 DVRs. .....


If TiVo is going to make a change that requires ALL units on an account to be updated before MRV will work I would certainly think that TiVo will make certain that ALL units on an account are "updated" at the same time.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

OC7 said:


> I noticed this lag also. <snip> The same type of behavior is also true for the built-in 8 sec rewind button. Don't know if this change is by design or not.


I've noticed this too. 9.1 has been on my box for 5+ days, so it's not something that indexing makes go away.

When you hit the 8-sec rewind, there is a momentary pause, then it does its thing. When you hit Play after a 2X or 3X FF, it also does a brief pause/freeze before playing. Slightly disconcerting if only because it's new behavior. Don't really know if this bothers me yet . . .


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## artinsocal (Sep 20, 2007)

tboydsto said:


> Since the 9.1 update, both of my Series 3 boxes intermittently lose a CableCard. At first, I thought CableCard 1 seemed to be the issue, but tonight, CableCard 2 flaked out. The diagnostics all say that the hosed CableCard is working fine, but no HD or other digital channels are displayed (the screen is blank). Beyond the diagnostics, the hosed CableCard states it is getting ECMs and that decryption is OK, so it should not be cable company issue. I must also note that also that this problem seems to occur only during recordings, and once it starts, the CableCard remains hosed. If I force a restart, the CableCard starts working again. So far, I have missed 2 recordings, and my wife has missed 3 recordings. The only way to resolve the problem is a restart.
> 
> Is anyone else seeing a blank screen with CableCard on HD and digital channels?
> 
> ...


My S3 started acting up similiarly 2 nights ago where 1 minute I can view a digital channel and then come back and the screen is blank, like you say. I'm always able to view the national station, ei: CBS, ABC, FOX,etc but cannot view almost all of the other digital channels. I'm not sure what to look for in the diagnostic to tell whether one of the cards are defective. I have Time WArner coming out on Friday. I thought it might be a cable issue, but I'm not positive.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

I wish TiVo had a way to "Opt Out". I have no need or interest in any of the "new" features and my S3 has been flawless. I sure hope this new update is stable... I've been in hell with this thing before and I have no desire to go back.


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## Jay M (Sep 27, 2007)

bareyb said:


> I wish TiVo had a way to "Opt Out". I have no need or interest in any of the "new" features and my S3 has been flawless. I sure hope this new update is stable... I've been in hell with this thing before and I have no desire to go back.


I read a very interesting article from the late Stephen St Croix about that.

He was a writer in Mix Magazine for many years, he wrote many times about how much he liked his Tivo. But in this particular article he gave examples of how software based products are designed to self destruct and require you to buy an upgrade. The article was about music software and plugins, but he used his Tivo as an example of a product that worked flawlessly before an update that automatically installed. His Tivo never worked as well after that so he bought a new one.

I don't think he truly believed that Manufacturers were intentionally breaking their products, but the end result was the same as far as the consumer was concerned.

For some things stability is far more important than features. A DVR that isn't stable can be quite useless.

~Jay


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

astrohip said:


> I've noticed this too. 9.1 has been on my box for 5+ days, so it's not something that indexing makes go away.
> 
> When you hit the 8-sec rewind, there is a momentary pause, then it does its thing. When you hit Play after a 2X or 3X FF, it also does a brief pause/freeze before playing. Slightly disconcerting if only because it's new behavior. Don't really know if this bothers me yet . . .


I have this too (noted in another post) and it is very annoying on the FFx2 and FFx3. I like to zip thru baseball games and use FFx2 between batters. It will over run the time and get to the second pitch, but when you hit play it reverts back to the first pitch before you can see anything. This has always worked fine. Since the update however, when you hit Play it freezes on the second pitch before reverting back 8 secs. Allows me to see the outfielder headed for the gap two pitches early. I noted that it does not happen when replaying a recording that was made before the update.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

tboydsto said:


> Since the 9.1 update, both of my Series 3 boxes intermittently lose a CableCard. At first, I thought CableCard 1 seemed to be the issue, but tonight, CableCard 2 flaked out. The diagnostics all say that the hosed CableCard is working fine, but no HD or other digital channels are displayed (the screen is blank). Beyond the diagnostics, the hosed CableCard states it is getting ECMs and that decryption is OK, so it should not be cable company issue. I must also note that also that this problem seems to occur only during recordings, and once it starts, the CableCard remains hosed. If I force a restart, the CableCard starts working again. So far, I have missed 2 recordings, and my wife has missed 3 recordings. The only way to resolve the problem is a restart.
> 
> Is anyone else seeing a blank screen with CableCard on HD and digital channels?
> 
> ...


Yes I have seen this behavior several times since the update. I tune an HD channel and the screen is blank. Then a few seconds later the host id CableCard screen appears. I press clear and the channels are back.

Also, I have noticed another odd behavior. When I initially tune a channel the video seems to speed up for a second then all is well. It happens 95% of the time.

And finally after a couple of weeks I find that the macroblocking/pixelation issue on my S3 although still happening seems to have lessened somewhat. It's not as extreme or as frequent but its still there.


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## wbradney (Mar 4, 2003)

Is there a list of bug fixes for 9.1? Is it supposed to fix the pixellation problems reported in this forum?

I ask because it didn't seem to fix it for me.


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## silypuddy (Jun 4, 2007)

tboydsto said:


> Since the 9.1 update, both of my Series 3 boxes intermittently lose a CableCard. At first, I thought CableCard 1 seemed to be the issue, but tonight, CableCard 2 flaked out. The diagnostics all say that the hosed CableCard is working fine, but no HD or other digital channels are displayed (the screen is blank). Beyond the diagnostics, the hosed CableCard states it is getting ECMs and that decryption is OK, so it should not be cable company issue. I must also note that also that this problem seems to occur only during recordings, and once it starts, the CableCard remains hosed. If I force a restart, the CableCard starts working again. So far, I have missed 2 recordings, and my wife has missed 3 recordings. The only way to resolve the problem is a restart.
> 
> Is anyone else seeing a blank screen with CableCard on HD and digital channels?
> 
> ...


It has happened to me once. My message said the CC wasn't authorized. I rebooted and everything was fine. Luckily I wasn't recording anything. I guess it's time to call Tivo and report some bugs.. I wish they had an online way to do this.


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## TiVoJerry (Jul 26, 2005)

RoyK said:


> If TiVo is going to make a change that requires ALL units on an account to be updated before MRV will work I would certainly think that TiVo will make certain that ALL units on an account are "updated" at the same time.


As a part of the planned rollout, that's exactly what we're doing. However, we offer up this priority list as a way for those who want it earlier. This negates the pre-planned "release by account", but yes, we're also trying to make sure we sweep in other units on the same account even if only one is signed up on the priority list.

However, there are several ways that a customer could run into a problem, so having this warning language up, here and on the priority list itself, is just a way to raise the visibility of this short-term issue so that people don't think that there is a problem and call us unnecessarily.

1> If a customer buys a new DVR after receiving the update on current units, we aren't going to scan for new additions. We frequently allow new units to upgrade immediately, but that would likely cause more problems than it would cure in this situation.
2> Even though they've all been auth'd at the same moment, not all units in the home will call in to get the software at the same time of day. As such, there could be one day where there is a SW mismatch. This language was intended to remind people (without being too wordy) to confirm the software is actually installed before thinking there is a problem.
3> Even if both units have called in, they would both need to be restarted to actually install the software. Again, the language is a reminder.
4> Good ol' fashioned Murphy's Law could kick in and due to various circumstances someone ends up with SW on one unit but not the other. We're just trying to cover the MRV bases here.

We're working with what we've got, and we're asking much more from our operations team to get it done as smoothly as we can possibly orchestrate. We're hoping that having this language out there will help smooth out a few of the bumps that may come along.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

TiVoJerry said:


> As a part of the planned rollout, that's exactly what we're doing. However, we offer up this priority list as a way for those who want it earlier. This negates the pre-planned "release by account", but yes, we're also trying to make sure we sweep in other units on the same account even if only one is signed up on the priority list.
> 
> ..........


Great! Now why not change the message that displays after the box is updated to warn users that MRV will not function properly until all units have been updated and rebooted? You have warned us here but probably most customers will never see the warning.


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Great! Now why not change the message that displays after the box is updated to warn users that MRV will not function properly until all units have been updated and rebooted? You have warned us here but probably most customers will never see the warning.


I could have sworn the message I got with the update mentioned this, but I've deleted it from both my boxen (S3 and S2 which were updated the same day).


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

mrmike said:


> I could have sworn the message I got with the update mentioned this, but I've deleted it from both my boxen (S3 and S2 which were updated the same day).


The messages I got this morning on all 3 of my updates did NOT contain any information re: MRV


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

We added our TiVo's to the Priority Update List yesterday a.m. Forced a connection and received v9.1 upgrade this a.m.

Everything appears to be working normally. It had no affect on the eSATA drive connected to the S3. The S2's menu's now look like the S3's "glass style" menus...nice. Navigating the NP menu is a bit slow but I'll chalk that up to TiVo's indexing everything and expect that it will be back to normal in a couple of days as it has with other updates.

Noted the split-second "freeze frame" others have mentioned when going from FF or RW to Play. I'm not sure if it bothers me yet or not...just a little different but non-obtrusive.

All-in-all a good, clean experience so far. :up:


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

1) I had one of those infamous "Emergency Alert" tests after getting 9.1 on my Series3. It was recording a suggestion, and it reverted back to the correct channel after the "alert" was over. I know it did a channel change, because I saw a few seconds of the other channel before it changed back to the right one. The only effect was to lose a few seconds of the program showing the idiot "test" message. What would be interesting to know is how it would have behaved if it hadn't been recording.

2) My Series3 has a new "Hybrid" video choice, as on the TiVoHD, which outputs 480i source at 480p, and 720p and 1080i sources as-is. This is very nice for my HD TV which, like many, doesn't accept 480i over the HDMI cable.


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## mercurial (Oct 17, 2002)

I'm pretty sure that "Hybrid" was always an option.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

mercurial said:


> I'm pretty sure that "Hybrid" was always an option.


The Series3 had several "Hybrid" choices, but the specific ability to map 480i to 480p, but pass through the HD modes as-is, was only available on the TiVoHD.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Update from my earlier post re; v9.1.

I noticed some others commenting about the FF or RW to Play action being different (momentary freeze frame-like issue). I just tried it on a program that was recorded before the update and it seems like it's there, however brief.

However I tried it on a program that was just recorded and don't see it at all...instantaneous playback coming from either "direction" at any speed. Checked it on the live buffers and no problems either. :up:


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## ChiliDog (Jul 15, 2004)

Received updates on all 3 of my boxes about 1.5 weeks ago, (2 s2, 1 new TivoHD). My 2nd s2 box was a few days behind, and for a short time received a 3rd "now playing on DVR" in my now playing, which I'm thinking was the TivoHD? Wouldn't list any programs, but gives me hope when the big switch gets flipped it will allow MRV with the TivoHD, looks like its in there, just not activated yet?

On a sidebar, dealing with TimeWarner, and have been waiting for 2 friggin weeks to get my cablecards. They were supposed to come last week but the tech called on the way out (after taking the morning off work of course) and said sorry, new cablecards just came out, all the ones in the warehouse are the old version, can't install today. Sigh. another few days at least. (Thanks for listening!)


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

tase2 said:


> I wonder if there will be any fixes for ""Viewing is not permitted using the DVR's HDMI output. Try another TV input" message issues?





bkdtv said:


> I am not aware of any such issues.
> 
> Some older Sony HDTVs have a bugged firmware that must be fixed before it will work reliably with most modern HDMI devices. I'm not sure there is anything Tivo can do about that.


Got the 9.1 today, and although it should not have made a difference, but it did. I no longer am getting the "HDMI" message. It is still CCI Byte 00x02 

Hopefully it will last.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

tase2 said:


> Got the 9.1 today, and although it should not have made a difference, but it did. I no longer am getting the "HDMI" message. It is still CCI Byte 00x02
> 
> Hopefully it will last.


Sweet. You may have just uncovered an "undocumented fix". :up:


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

bareyb said:


> Sweet. You may have just uncovered an "undocumented fix". :up:


Perhaps :up:


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

tase2 said:


> Got the 9.1 today, and although it should not have made a difference, but it did. I no longer am getting the "HDMI" message. It is still CCI Byte 00x02
> 
> Hopefully it will last.


I will have to keep an eye on that as well since I get that HDMI message frequently with my Sony KDS-R60XBR1 SXRD HDTV. Just got 9.1 last night so I haven't it hasn't been long enough to know for sure.


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## tase2 (Sep 27, 2004)

George Cifranci said:


> I will have to keep an eye on that as well since I get that HDMI message frequently with my Sony KDS-R60XBR1 SXRD HDTV. Just got 9.1 last night so I haven't it hasn't been long enough to know for sure.


I'd be very interested to hear your results.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

wbradney said:


> Is there a list of bug fixes for 9.1? Is it supposed to fix the pixellation problems reported in this forum?
> 
> I ask because it didn't seem to fix it for me.


Sadly Tivo never posts a public list of bug fixes for any service updates. Every now and then one of the Tivo reps will pop on here and say this release fixes this or this release fixes that, but never a detailed list.


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## comandercody (Jun 17, 2002)

Got home tonight and forced a connection, then did a manual restart, my HD Tivo has been on "Almost there...Just a few minutes more..." for over 45 minutes!!!! Is this normal??


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

comandercody said:


> Got home tonight and forced a connection, then did a manual restart, my HD Tivo has been on "Almost there...Just a few minutes more..." for over 45 minutes!!!! Is this normal??


Before you forced the restart did it actually say "Pending Restart" on the Phone/Network page?

The software update took my Series 3 about 40 minutes I think (I didn't keep close track). I would leave it alone and see what it does. If it still says "Just a few minutes more" after an hour or so then there might be a problem. When the Service Update happens it should actually mention Service Update and that it could take an hour or more.


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## Gene Plantz (Dec 31, 1999)

Update on S3 took 30 minutes and it seems normal.

Two S2s are pending restart. I'll manually reboot after prime time.


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## comandercody (Jun 17, 2002)

George Cifranci said:


> Before you forced the restart did it actually say "Pending Restart" on the Phone/Network page?
> 
> The software update took my Series 3 about 40 minutes I think (I didn't keep close track). I would leave it alone and see what it does. If it still says "Just a few minutes more" after an hour or so then there might be a problem. When the Service Update happens it should actually mention Service Update and that it could take an hour or more.


It did not say "pending restart" it said "updating" :-(.

Its now been over an hour---i may have to pull the plug.....


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

You could do that, but the update will have to start over again... choice is yours


Mine took just under 50 minutes to update this morning... An may be wishful thinking but as of yet have had no pixelation...


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

comandercody said:


> It did not say "pending restart" it said "updating" :-(.
> 
> Its now been over an hour---i may have to pull the plug.....


Some updates can take an hour or more. Don't pull the plug for anything less than an hour.

The actual update time depends on the update. Updates that reorganize the database information on the Tivo can take 45-60 minutes. Updates that simply install new drivers or replace certain modules in the code can install in a few minutes.


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## comandercody (Jun 17, 2002)

Thanks for your input, I did unplug after about an hour and a half, plugged back in and she started right up, however, no update, still at 8.1c or whatever. Thanks again.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

comandercody said:


> Thanks for your input, I did unplug after about an hour and a half, plugged back in and she started right up, however, no update, still at 8.1c or whatever. Thanks again.


Did you add your Tivo TSN to the priority list on this page?

http://research.tivo.com/91priority/index.htm


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## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

My S3 updated fine (priority list).
My S2 started the update this morning (I restarted it) and was still doing the "may take an hour or more" screen when I got home tonight. I pulled the plug, and it booted right up and said welcome to the new release.
Hmm?


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## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

On my S3, I see a glitch in the info screen when watching live TV.

Try this:
Tune one tuner to a program at one resolution (480i, 720p, 1080i).
Tune the other tuner to a different resolution.
Use Live TV to swap tuners.
I see the other tuner's resolution listed in the program description overlay!
If I hit 'info' twice (to dismiss and recall the description), the resolution is shown properly.
Swap tuners again, the other channel shows the first tuner's resolution.

Anybody else seeing this?


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## cckrobinson (Aug 20, 2007)

Has anyone actually gotten the kickstart 62 method to work on the TivoHD in 9.1? I tried it 4 times without success.


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## kamacozzi (Apr 27, 2003)

Just to add to the list...both of my series 2's and both of my series 3's have the new fall update. 

Was hoping this update do more...still can't wait for the series 2's and 3's to be able to shift SD shows back and forth...then maybe tivo.net software will work also.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

cckrobinson said:


> Has anyone actually gotten the kickstart 62 method to work on the TivoHD in 9.1? I tried it 4 times without success.


I believe there was a post a few days ago that indicated that Kickstart 62 still does not work w/THD's w/v9.1.


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## Chimpware (Jan 30, 2002)

richsadams said:


> I believe there was a post a few days ago that indicated that Kickstart 62 still does not work w/THD's w/v9.1.


I posted the question in more than one thread and did not get any response from anyone, are you sure there was a post on this? I could not find it when I looked and there was one post earlier that was extremely vague that indictaed it may now work on the Tivo HD. Can someone indicate that they have tried this after 9.1 and Kickstart does not work?

EDIT: Never mind, I found Spikes post 1 minute after my response here. It does apear that Kickstart still does not work on teh Tivo HD.



spike2k5 said:


> Kickstart still doesn't work.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

Chimpware said:


> I posted the question in more than one thread and did not get any response from anyone, are you sure there was a post on this? I could not find it when I looked and there was one post earlier that was extremely vague that indictaed it may now work on the Tivo HD. Can someone indicate that they have tried this after 9.1 and Kickstart does not work?
> 
> EDIT: Never mind, I found Spikes post 1 minute after my response here. It does apear that Kickstart still does not work on teh Tivo HD.


Think it was spike that posted the esata port was enabled now, but not with the kickstart work around


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

jtkohl said:


> On my S3, I see a glitch in the info screen when watching live TV.
> 
> Try this:
> Tune one tuner to a program at one resolution (480i, 720p, 1080i).
> ...


Yes. I was hoping for the resolution in the overlay!
I also see this "delayed resolution string correction" when simply changing channels on the same tuner.

tlc


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

I added my eSATA drive with the MFSLIVE tools, not the kickstart method. I hope this update won't erase that and I have to do it again. Anyone have any word on that?


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

Yay! Got 9.1 today. Install took about 10 minutes (after the inital reboot or two)


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

ChiliDog said:


> Received updates on all 3 of my boxes about 1.5 weeks ago, (2 s2, 1 new TivoHD). My 2nd s2 box was a few days behind, and for a short time received a 3rd "now playing on DVR" in my now playing, which I'm thinking was the TivoHD? Wouldn't list any programs, but gives me hope when the big switch gets flipped it will allow MRV with the TivoHD, looks like its in there, just not activated yet?
> 
> On a sidebar, dealing with TimeWarner, and have been waiting for 2 friggin weeks to get my cablecards. They were supposed to come last week but the tech called on the way out (after taking the morning off work of course) and said sorry, new cablecards just came out, all the ones in the warehouse are the old version, can't install today. Sigh. another few days at least. (Thanks for listening!)


Ugh. Well at least they're newer cards.

I think it's NUTS that they don't just mail you the stupid cards. I think we can all manage to stick a PC Card into a slot (well...  ) and the rest should be as simple as punching a number into a web page to get it activated-or optionally by phone, something like that.

They should let you just by the cards outright while we're at it.


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## Okeemike (Apr 24, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> Ugh. Well at least they're newer cards.
> 
> I think it's NUTS that they don't just mail you the stupid cards. I think we can all manage to stick a PC Card into a slot (well...  ) and the rest should be as simple as punching a number into a web page to get it activated-or optionally by phone, something like that.
> 
> They should let you just by the cards outright while we're at it.


Until this morning, I would have agreed with you. However, I just spent the past three hours with the BrightHouse guy trying to get my cards working, and they did not work. WE went through all the cards in his truck (5 of them) and none of them worked. The guy seemed pretty knowledgeable (said he was one of two Cable Card guys the company will send out) but couldn't get the device up and running.

I thought it was going to be a plug and play thing. but it's not nearly that simple....yet


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

My S3 and S2 units both got 9.1 yesterday, from the priority list request.

I forced a restart of the S3 unit right before going to bed last night. I went to sleep rather than waiting for the update to complete.

There was one glitch - my video output format was inexplicably set to "1080i Fixed" after the upgrade, when previously it was set to Native. I changed it back to Native and everything seems to be okay.

The next few days are very busy according to the S3's To-Do list. We'll see how well it performs. I wasn't having any problems with my S3 prior to the update.


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## NCTRNL (Sep 24, 2007)

mportuesi said:


> My S3 and S2 units both got 9.1 yesterday, from the priority list request.
> 
> I forced a restart of the S3 unit right before going to bed last night. I went to sleep rather than waiting for the update to complete.
> 
> ...


What's the benefit of going to Native? I hate it because it's always switching and scrambling and stuff. It's smooth as silk set at 1080i Fixed.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

NCTRNL said:


> What's the benefit of going to Native? I hate it because it's always switching and scrambling and stuff. It's smooth as silk set at 1080i Fixed.


Using native eliminates any processing (scaling/deinterlacing) by the Tivo and lets your monitor do all the work. Having scaling done in multiple places isnt a good idea. Also, scaling 720p to 1080i gives up the motion superiority of 720p. Using native, the TV would simply upscale 720p to 1080p and maintain good motion capability... With Tivo on 1080i fixed, 720p would get scaled and interlaced, the TV would then deinterlace it and in the case of some sets... scale it again to induce overscan. Too many process steps......

Pick your poison... good motion but dancing pictures on channel changes or clean switches but possibly less quality 720p. You can guess which one I chose.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Okeemike said:


> Until this morning, I would have agreed with you. However, I just spent the past three hours with the BrightHouse guy trying to get my cards working, and they did not work. WE went through all the cards in his truck (5 of them) and none of them worked. The guy seemed pretty knowledgeable (said he was one of two Cable Card guys the company will send out) but couldn't get the device up and running.
> 
> I thought it was going to be a plug and play thing. but it's not nearly that simple....yet


Yikes! I'd have to suspect the whole cable industry isn't putting much effort into complying with these laws. I mean this isn't exactly an advanced piece of technology we're talking about!

Oh well, for the time being I don't need cable cards. Hopefully the situation will improve if I ever need them in the future.


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## Release (May 9, 2007)

Does the update fix the audio dropping out problem some of us have? Every few days I need to reboot. Kinda getting old.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Just got 9.1 and yes it screws up 30 second skip and instant replay. The time advances forward and backward as it should, but the image on the screen remains static so you can't tell where you are going until a second after you get there. Bummer. Makes it hard to be precise. Hopefully TiVo will address this problem. But they can't if they don't know about it. if you are having problems like this sound off!


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

SCSIRAID said:


> Using native eliminates any processing (scaling/deinterlacing) by the Tivo and lets your monitor do all the work. Having scaling done in multiple places isnt a good idea. Also, scaling 720p to 1080i gives up the motion superiority of 720p. Using native, the TV would simply upscale 720p to 1080p and maintain good motion capability... With Tivo on 1080i fixed, 720p would get scaled and interlaced, the TV would then deinterlace it and in the case of some sets... scale it again to induce overscan. Too many process steps......
> 
> Pick your poison... good motion but dancing pictures on channel changes or clean switches but possibly less quality 720p. You can guess which one I chose.


I like Native too, for the reasons you mention. I wish TiVo would improve their "dancing pictures" on channel changes and switches between menus and video. That's the one thing my old cable company DVR did better.

tlc


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## lmsyl (Aug 30, 2007)

This morning the power Light on my TIVOHD front panel kept flashing. No video, audio output. I unplugged the power cord and Tivo started to upgrade.

Is this strange?


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## srea (Oct 13, 2000)

lmsyl said:


> This morning the power Light on my TIVOHD front panel kept flashing. No video, audio output. I unplugged the power cord and Tivo started to upgrade.
> 
> Is this strange?


Unplugging the TiVo and having it start its upgrade is impressive, I usually have to plug it back in 

I haven't had any of my TiVos get stuck during an upgrade. Maybe it was attempting to record something when it tried to re-boot itself and got confused. Did it survive the upgrade okay?


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

tboydsto said:


> Since the 9.1 update, both of my Series 3 boxes intermittently lose a CableCard. At first, I thought CableCard 1 seemed to be the issue, but tonight, CableCard 2 flaked out. The diagnostics all say that the hosed CableCard is working fine, but no HD or other digital channels are displayed (the screen is blank). Beyond the diagnostics, the hosed CableCard states it is getting ECMs and that decryption is OK, so it should not be cable company issue. I must also note that also that this problem seems to occur only during recordings, and once it starts, the CableCard remains hosed. If I force a restart, the CableCard starts working again. So far, I have missed 2 recordings, and my wife has missed 3 recordings. The only way to resolve the problem is a restart.
> 
> Is anyone else seeing a blank screen with CableCard on HD and digital channels?
> 
> ...


this has me extremely concerned. I have had major issues with my Slot 1 since the day I finally had the CCs installed. I don't think my Slot 1 ever worked. it would never take any of the hits on any of the cards Comcast tried. however, you could move the card to Slot 2 and it would accept the hit every time. I am pretty much relying on my Slot 2 CC to get all my programming. if I start getting the issues stated above that could make my S3 pretty much useless.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

NCTRNL said:


> What's the benefit of going to Native? I hate it because it's always switching and scrambling and stuff. It's smooth as silk set at 1080i Fixed.


Some other people have already responded, and I'll add to what they said.

Much of what I watch is still standard-def content at 480i. My TV's native resolution is 720p. I tested the S3's 480i-to-720p conversion against what the set can do, and I found the TV set (a Sony Bravia) does a better job of the upconversion than does the S3.

So I pick Native on the S3 for the best picture quality. After a while, you learn to overlook the scrambling bits as the TV transitions between signal formats.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> Using native eliminates any processing (scaling/deinterlacing) by the Tivo and lets your monitor do all the work. Having scaling done in multiple places isnt a good idea. Also, scaling 720p to 1080i gives up the motion superiority of 720p. Using native, the TV would simply upscale 720p to 1080p and maintain good motion capability... With Tivo on 1080i fixed, 720p would get scaled and interlaced, the TV would then deinterlace it and in the case of some sets... scale it again to induce overscan. Too many process steps......
> 
> Pick your poison... good motion but dancing pictures on channel changes or clean switches but possibly less quality 720p. You can guess which one I chose.


There are a LOT of 720P hdtv's... no point in your TV downresing 1080i to 720P...

That's a big reason I can see for not using native mode..


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> There are a LOT of 720P hdtv's... no point in your TV downresing 1080i to 720P...


What else are you going to do in that situation? You have to downrez 1080 to display on a 720p set, whether it's done in the TiVo or in the set itself.

My TV is better than the TiVo at 480i --> 720p, and it does at least as well as the TiVo with 1080i --> 720p, so that's an argument for native mode. The only downside with Native in this situation are the wonky transitions between signal formats.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

srea said:


> Unplugging the TiVo and having it start its upgrade is impressive, I usually have to plug it back in


I'll say! Alert the media. I can see the headline now: *DVR giant creates free energy device. Film at 11.* 



srea said:


> I haven't had any of my TiVos get stuck during an upgrade. Maybe it was attempting to record something when it tried to re-boot itself and got confused. Did it survive the upgrade okay?


Actually, both of mine did. One of them did it twice. I had both TiVo's poll out of schedule to see if the upgrade was ready. It was, and both TiVos began downloading the upgrade. One of them froze and auto-rebooted when the download was at 69%. It recovered, but the update was gone so I forced a call again. This time it passed. I made sure there were no scheduled recordings in the way and then forced both TiVo's to reboot. One took the upgrade OK, but after updating the software the UI was slow and erratic on one TiVo and it was reporting some of the shows which had been available as not having any video in them, so I rebooted the TiVo manually. The unit became normally responsive and the shows which were reported to have no video were once again able to play. The other TiVo brought up the update screen informing the user it could take an hour or more to complete the upgrade. After 6 hours it was still stuck on the screen, so I decided to go ahead and kill the power. Since the UI was not active I had no other choice. After plugging it back in he TiVo booted normally and all was well.

The unit which hiccoughed twice and auto-rebooted has a stock 250G drive with a kickstarted 750G Seagate e-SATA drive. The one which froze during the upgrade is a 1T series III purchased from Weaknees with a 1T e-SATA Hitachi married using the mfstools live Linux CD.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

mportuesi said:


> What else are you going to do in that situation? You have to downrez 1080 to display on a 720p set, whether it's done in the TiVo or in the set itself.


Well nothing..

but I think the S3 defaults to native mode, and if someone doesn't know better they might have it looking pretty crappy.


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I just read through the thread and didn't see anyone with the same hiccup I had.

I got home from work today and noticed the clock on the front panel said 2:17, it was actually 5:30. I turned the TV on and saw the screen that says it is preparing the software update and this could take over an hour. So I figure it had been stuck there since 2:17 the previous morning, or 15 hours! I feared the worst but after a power cycle it booted up and shows that it has version 9.1.

I'm just glad that I wasn't out of town for a week!


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

My S3 also has the freeze for 30sec fwd/8sec back. It's made navigating through shows extremely difficult.

I had no complaints at all with my S3 before this update. This isn't the first time that TiVo has upset a perfectly functioning machine in my home with one of their buggy software releases. Didn't their QA group even try trick-play - probably the most-used feature on the box - before they released this to customers?

I really wish there were a way to opt-out of software updates.


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## rodalpho (Sep 12, 2006)

I wouldn't say _extremely_ difficult, but it's definitely worse than it was. I really hope they fix it.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I haven't experienced anything wrong with Fwd skip, but Rew skip does get "stuck" sometimes. I found quickly pressing it twice frees it up. Not a huge deal at all to me. The most minor of inconveniences.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

cwoody222 said:


> I haven't experienced anything wrong with Fwd skip, but Rew skip does get "stuck" sometimes. I found quickly pressing it twice frees it up. Not a huge deal at all to me. The most minor of inconveniences.


The 30 second skip lag doesn't seem to always happen on NON HD recordings. Try it on an HD Recording and you will see that the picture lags behind the button presses unless you push the buttons very slowly. It's more than doubled the amount of time it takes to navigate through commercials now. You can't tell when you have reached the beginning of the show and then the lag in instant replay makes it even worse. It's pretty much ruined the way I navigate and it's frustrating the crap out of me. I consider this a huge problem. The S3 now has the same crappy response that my Comcrap box has. I wish to hell TiVo would at least communicate with us that they acknowledge the problem and that they intend to fix this.


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## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

mportuesi said:


> My S3 also has the freeze for 30sec fwd/8sec back. It's made navigating through shows extremely difficult.
> 
> I had no complaints at all with my S3 before this update. This isn't the first time that TiVo has upset a perfectly functioning machine in my home with one of their buggy software releases. Didn't their QA group even try trick-play - probably the most-used feature on the box - before they released this to customers?
> 
> I really wish there were a way to opt-out of software updates.


You and me both Brother. This sucks. I'm a TiVo fanboy but even I can't bring myself to defend TiVo on this one. They have broken my S3 and made it worse. Now my navigation is all messed up, and I'm constantly reminded of this lousy update that I never wanted. Opting out would be a god send.


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## rickfriele (Aug 13, 2007)

Just got my update this morning. Are there any bug fixes in this update? I have been having trouble with my Cox cable cards losing the handshake therefore resulting in black video on HD channels during recordings.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

bareyb said:


> The 30 second skip lag doesn't seem to always happen on NON HD recordings. Try it on an HD Recording and you will see that the picture lags behind the button presses unless you push the buttons very slowly. It's more than doubled the amount of time it takes to navigate through commercials now. You can't tell when you have reached the beginning of the show and then the lag in instant replay makes it even worse. It's pretty much ruined the way I navigate and it's frustrating the crap out of me. I consider this a huge problem. The S3 now has the same crappy response that my Comcrap box has. I wish to hell TiVo would at least communicate with us that they acknowledge the problem and that they intend to fix this.


I record a ton of prime time HD shows and have been doing so with 9.1 for 2+ weeks (I got it the first day). Honestly I haven't even noticed it with 30-sec skip at all. I didn't notice it in 3 hours of HD recording last night.

Different people's perceptions, I guess.


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## HGluckman (Aug 28, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> Why does "Browse By Channel" always start with the lowest channel? It's very annoying


I've read the entire thread, and I'm amazed that only one person reported this problem, and no one has reported the other problem with Browse by Channel.

Over the last few days I've received the 9.1 update on both my S2 and S3 TiVos. In both, Browse by Channel, which I use all of the time for scheduling, starts on the lowest channel instead of the last channel browsed. In addition, scrolling though days, does not change the listed programs. You have to manually scroll (either using down arrow, or page down) to the program you're interested in.

Has anyone else seen this? I guess I'll call it into TiVo, and see what they say.

Howard


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

HGluckman said:


> I've read the entire thread, and I'm amazed that only one person reported this problem, and no one has reported the other problem with Browse by Channel.
> 
> Over the last few days I've received the 9.1 update on both my S2 and S3 TiVos. In both, Browse by Channel, which I use all of the time for scheduling, starts on the lowest channel instead of the last channel browsed. In addition, scrolling though days, does not change the listed programs. You have to manually scroll (either using down arrow, or page down) to the program you're interested in.
> 
> ...


I had 9.1.L5 with that problem but its fixed with 9.1 (no .L5), and other small bugs are fixed with the final V9.1.


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

My TiVo Series 3 has been "Preparing the service update. This may take up to an hour, possibly longer." for at least 3 hours now. Should I be concerned???

Thanks!

-=Tim=-


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

lessd said:


> I had 9.1.L5 with that problem but its fixed with 9.1 (no .L5), and other small bugs are fixed with the final V9.1.


Not on mine. I have this problem plus also on the browse by channel screen if you have the schedule for some date/channel displayed then go left and change the date the displayed schedule doesn't change. You have to change the channel to get it to change or go into the displayed schedule and scroll up.


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

Timber said:


> My TiVo Series 3 has been "Preparing the service update. This may take up to an hour, possibly longer." for at least 3 hours now. Should I be concerned???
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -=Tim=-


Rebooted (at TiVo's suggestion). Everything fine. 

-=Tim=-


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## SMB-IL (Mar 5, 2003)

I haven't noticed this one mentioned: when deleting a show from the ToDo list (like those Daily Show repeats that Comedy Central can't seem to fix on Mondays!), if you delete directly from the listing, the cursor will jump back to a different spot on the list instead of where you came from. For example, I deleted a show on Oct 15th and after the "Are you sure?" screen, the listing came back to Oct 4th. If you press Select on the show and THEN delete it, this doesn't happen. It may be that whatever keeps track of where you are on the listing is not being updated unless you Select into a show description.

And what's with the new BIGGER font? It's making everything bigger and more crowded than it used to be. (Mon 10/1510:00PM The Daily Show w...) Ugh!

On the "Browse by Channel", I'm also having the issue with it going back to the first channel -- my software version is 9.1-01-2-648, no .L5.

And not an issue with the update, but something that's always bugged me: why can't the date and channel be stacked vertically on the "Browse" screens so that there's space for an icon showing something that's already scheduled to record AND more importantly, space to see a more complete title? With the crowding on other screens, the Browse screen seems to be wasting a lot of screen space. Just my $.02.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

SMB-IL said:


> I haven't noticed this one mentioned: when deleting a show from the ToDo list (like those Daily Show repeats that Comedy Central can't seem to fix on Mondays!), if you delete directly from the listing, the cursor will jump back to a different spot on the list instead of where you came from. For example, I deleted a show on Oct 15th and after the "Are you sure?" screen, the listing came back to Oct 4th. If you press Select on the show and THEN delete it, this doesn't happen. It may be that whatever keeps track of where you are on the listing is not being updated unless you Select into a show description.


Yep, I've noticed this one also. I'm doing the same thing (only I'm getting rid of duplicate Cramer recordings in ToDo list). It seems to jump back 6-8 entries in a random fashion.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

My 590 Series 2 seems slower after the update, and I've noticed a new bug.

I've got several manual recordings set up for channel 0 for 5 minutes at different times, in order to shut off the recording (both to make the unit quieter, and to probably help with the hard drive's longevity).

Since the update I sometimes see one of the "recordings" left in the Now Playing list and have to delete it. Even stranger, my season pass entries cause my unit to stop responding if I try to view them. I click select on one, and it switches to a blank screen for as long as I've left it like that (probably 15 minutes or so). The background animation seems to still run, so it's not completely locked up or anything, but it's totally unresponsive-I've had to pull the plug on it twice last night until I figured out it was those "blank" season passes that were doing it, and not "real" ones.

I'm not sure yet if it's fixed a minor issue I had where I'd hit back on certain screens and it would go back to the wrong show/season pass/etc. It wasn't really that annoying, and not something you needed to see every day.

So far I like the spiffy new look, but otherwise wish I could go back to 8.x.


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## aymanme (May 8, 2001)

tboydsto said:


> Since the 9.1 update, both of my Series 3 boxes intermittently lose a CableCard. At first, I thought CableCard 1 seemed to be the issue, but tonight, CableCard 2 flaked out. The diagnostics all say that the hosed CableCard is working fine, but no HD or other digital channels are displayed (the screen is blank). ...


Mine has had this problem for months (TWC/Austin S3, pre-9.1). The only solution that I have found is to reboot. Unfortunately the reboot takes so long, and annoys me enough, I just blow off the rest of the show. To have better luck, I have been rebooting before I go to sleep and hoping that it is able to stay running through the next day. It usually makes it at least half the day, but craps out in the evening.


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## drosoph (Mar 21, 2000)

(4) units upgraded to 9.1 -- One required manual unplugs for 2 days to get it to eventually get through the install process.

9-second replay used to show the video on each click, now it just moves the progress bar ticker and shows video a second after i've stopped hitting the button. Kinda defeats the "I just went past the start of a show after a commercial .. so I hit 9-second replay button a couple times .. i just have to guess"


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

jtkohl said:


> My S3 updated fine (priority list).
> My S2 started the update this morning (I restarted it) and was still doing the "may take an hour or more" screen when I got home tonight. I pulled the plug, and it booted right up and said welcome to the new release.
> Hmm?


One of my S3s did the same thing. I went away for 6 hours and came back, but it was still hung. Pulling the plug and putting it back brought up the TiVo with the new software working just fine. The other one came up after about an hour, but was having problems. I had to manually reboot it.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

bareyb said:


> You and me both Brother. This sucks. I'm a TiVo fanboy but even I can't bring myself to defend TiVo on this one. They have broken my S3 and made it worse. Now my navigation is all messed up, and I'm constantly reminded of this lousy update that I never wanted. Opting out would be a god send.


There is, and in fact it's rather simple, but you have to hack the TiVo, which voids its warranty.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

lrhorer said:


> There is, and in fact it's rather simple, but you have to hack the TiVo, which voids its warranty.


That doesn't sound legal. (Magnuson-Moss)

If I replace my hard drive and later a tuner goes out.. They would have to prove it was related to the hard drive upgrade.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

Adam1115 said:


> That doesn't sound legal. (Magnuson-Moss)
> 
> If I replace my hard drive and later a tuner goes out.. They would have to prove it was related to the hard drive upgrade.


It's more along the lines of... if you opened the case, and something inside the case broke, you can't prove that you didn't do something else while inside -- maybe you dropped a screw in the wrong place, for example.

They can't prove that you did, but you can't prove that you didn't.

If you do upgrade the hard drive, keep the original handy so you can swap it back in and hope they don't notice


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

What makes you think voiding the warranty if the terms and condition of the warranty aren't followed by the consumer violates Magnuson-Moss?


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## jlc (Jun 18, 2002)

Has anyone noticed that 9.1 appears to break Browse by Channel? When you first select a date and channel, it gives the correct listing, but if you then change the date and keep the same channel, the listing is not updated. To get the listing updated you must change the channel.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

jlc said:


> Has anyone noticed that 9.1 appears to break ...


I've been waiting so long for the Now Playing List on another DVR on the network to appear that I haven't had a chance to notice the incredibly numerous bugs. I expect the next thing I will notice is the program info takes even longer to access on the remote DVR. Good strategy to pin us down in MRV hell so we can't get around to experiencing the rest.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

jlc said:


> Has anyone noticed that 9.1 appears to break Browse by Channel? When you first select a date and channel, it gives the correct listing, but if you then change the date and keep the same channel, the listing is not updated. To get the listing updated you must change the channel.


just press select


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jlc said:


> Has anyone noticed that 9.1 appears to break Browse by Channel? When you first select a date and channel, it gives the correct listing, but if you then change the date and keep the same channel, the listing is not updated. To get the listing updated you must change the channel.


Even crazier if you go into the listing after changing the date and scroll up the date will flip back to the one that corresponds to the listing.


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## DaveTheNerd (Oct 13, 2004)

TiVoJerry said:


> (p.s. Don't worry if the "friendly name" is not showing up on your S3 or TiVo HD DVR. That will be fixed shortly as well...currently scheduled for November  )


Is current advice to still not worry about this? Since the update, we've been 100% unable to download Unbox content to our S3 "un-friendly-named" DVR, and all speculation (both by Amazon and TiVo support) points to this as the potential issue.

Thoughts?

-Dave


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## wierdo (Apr 7, 2002)

DaveTheNerd said:


> Is current advice to still not worry about this? Since the update, we've been 100% unable to download Unbox content to our S3 "un-friendly-named" DVR, and all speculation (both by Amazon and TiVo support) points to this as the potential issue.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> -Dave


I can download Unbox programs just fine, and my S3 also doesn't know its own name (although TiVo and Unbox do)


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