# Wot No Program Data



## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

HI
New here but I have a big problem.
I have a "basic" Tivo - no upgrades or anything.
I few weeks back my tivo (named dobby) had major problems downloading program data, I called Tivo Customer Services and they said that they had no Idea why and I should find a local repair guy to fix it as it's basically a computer and their deal with thompson to repair them is over.

I managed to get the program data by "formatting" the hard drive (resetting the tivo and deleting all data)
Now my tivo is doing it again (bad dobby!!) and is going to run out tomorrow - 22 November 2005. 

When I force a phone call I get told it completed OK but that no program data is available.

I really don't want to delete any programs I have on the tivo as if this is what I have to do each month or so then there is no point in having the tivo.

Anyone have any Ideas?

I don't have a PC that I can connect to the tivo either - unless someone can tell me in step by step how to set up my XP home laptop to do this.

Thanks


Gaz(UK)


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

dragonlord666 said:


> When I force a phone call I get told it completed OK but that no program data is available.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Gaz(UK)


I just looked in with *exactly* the same problem.

My Tivo has been getting its data faithfully for years... it's now stopped. It says the call is successful but no program data is updated. I now have a permanent 'you have less than 7 days data' error and rerunning the daily call won't remove it... looks like tivo have changed something at their end & it's broke.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I think it's some sort of database corruption and I seem to recall that the way this is fixed is by re-running Guided Setup with a *different* postcode then again with your own; if you see what I mean.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

Hmm would never have thought of that. I'll give it a try...


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Neither would I  Luckily it hasn't happened to me, yet


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## Tony Hoyle (Apr 1, 2002)

Uh oh. Bad move.

I got a 'failed while indexing data' error, and now have no programme data at all


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Perhaps time for a new hard drive.
Several sources on offer with the Tivo software pre-loaded.

This will also give your box a new lease of life and increased recording capacity.

Automan.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Uh-Oh! Perhaps my future posts should have an indemnity clause attached as a sig


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Have you tried "Clear guide data and ToDo list" ?


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

thanks for the suggestions.
Tried the clear data & to do list -worked the first time now nothing.
Tried the clear all - worked first time but now I don't want to loose all my stuff.

On the hard drive front this is the 3rd hard drive I've had in dobby.
the other two died, dobby starts up I get a pink flash screen then dobby goes back to the start and starts up again, and again, and again and (you get the idea)

Once I get this up and running for a few months without all this trouble I "might" get a 2nd drive or maybe a bigger one.

When I restart dobby I get a message that he is installing new software - when I spoke to the guy at Cust.serv he asked me what software I had requested, When I said none he said it should not install new software without it being requested.
This is when the problem started - wonder if they had a bug but don't want to admitt it!!??

Will try the guide thing and see what happens - have nothing to loose but my sanity.

Gaz


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

well I was up untill 1:45am last night running the guided setup twice and it seems to have worked. I now have guide data until 14 Dec (when it could all start again LOL)

Thanks for the info guys.

I wonder if it worked out for me but not for Tony as I was on my last day of guide data?

SO now I guess it's keep an eye on this and maybe send tivo CustServ a few emails/calls to find out what this "new software update" is.

Gaz


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

Hi guys,
Well I'm still having to repeat "guided setup" every month to keep my data up to date. I have noticed I can repeat it with the same postcode and it will work (so far anyway)

BUT does anyone know what this new software is dobby is installing - I get the message he is installing new software each time he starts up?
Could this be something from SKY, who now run the tivo service, to bugger up the tivo's and make us buy sky digi boxes?

Thanks in advance for any info on the new software problem.

Gaz


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Only two versions of SW from tivo at the moment 

2.5.5 and 2.5.5a

If you have brought/installed a HDD with 2.5.5a and the tivo servers think you should have 2.5.5 it will download a update everynight (2.5.5) and then install/restart every night at 2am. Maybe when it is downloading the operating system it does not do the data??


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

dragonlord666 said:


> Could this be something from SKY, who now run the tivo service, to bugger up the tivo's and make us buy sky digi boxes?


Just to point out that this is mis-information. Sky run Tivo's Customer Service in the UK. That's all. Tivo are still in charge of everything else.


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

Hi thanks for the info 
I'm about ready to blow up tivo in scotland. 
THEY WILL NOT UPDATE MY SOFTWARE. They say TIVO will not release the NEW software unless you are having a technical problem (the won't say what these are) that needs the new software. SO BASICALLY I'M SCREWED AND HAVE TO REPEAT THE GUIDED SETUP EVERY MONTH - I'M GONNA CALL THEM EVERY TIME AND ASK FOR MATTHEW!!! 
Tonight a Matthew said as I upgraded my tivo they will NOT provide technical support. 
I tried to explain that 1) the hard dRIve died so I HAD to replace it &, more important, 2) they sent me the upgrade to 2.5.5a over a year ago during a reboot but it seems did not update THEIR database. 
OK I understand they won't give technical advice for something I upgraded but what's the big deal about changing their database to say I have 2.5.5a - would it kill them? 

I cannot call them as it's an internal thing (so says Matthew) and they say there is no way for me to contact them!! DOES ANYONE KNOW AN EMAIL OR POSTAL ADDRESS I CAN WRITE TO AND WHO I SHOULD ADDRESS IT TO? 
So I seem to have paid for a service they are unwilling to give. 

I used to tell everyone to buy a tivo - not any more. the device is great, the customer support (?) is sh** 

Seems like every other company - once they have your money don't care about you anymore. 

Maybe I'll phone them every night, ask to speak to a manager and see if they get fed up with my calls before I do. 

I AM SO PI**ED AT TIVO RIGHT NOW!!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Suggest you keep on trying to escalate with Tivo customer services. There are some people at Sky who totally understand the Tivo machines and the technical issues but it is now sadly only a minority of those on the customer service line. Many of them support Sky+ most of the time and are not too well versed in Tivo these days.

You say you have upgraded your hard drive twice before. How exactly did you do this and where did those drives come from?


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## Cainam (May 25, 2004)

Dragonlord,

As angry as you are (and rightly so), it might be worth trying it one more time but on a different tack.

As 6022Tivo says above the problem is almost certainly becausese of the different versions of the Tivo OS. What is on your hard drive at the moment is 2.5.5a, and what is on the Tivo servers as the version you 'should' have is 2.5.5.

Each night you dial up for program updates it sees the versions are different, and downloads the 'new' version (2.5.5). But when it comes to process it it sees the version on your hard drive is newer, and aborts the upgrade. It does this every night until you run out of data.

So the 'easy' (hopefully) solution is to phone Tivo CS, tell them you have just bought a new TV, and that the Tivo is causing problems with the new TV (and you can tell them Tivo is working perfectly with your old TV). Tell them after reading this forum you believe it is because of the Teletext bug, and can you request that they update you to 2.5.5a?

Once they do this, and they update your servers, then everything should be OK. Each time you download program listings it will see the version on your hard disk and the version on their servers are the same, and it will just download the listings.

Good luck! (and let is know how you get on)

Cainam


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Restoring from a standard 2.5.5 image available here would fix the problem too (but lose all recordings & SPs...)


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Wouldn't have to restore from a 2.5.5a image?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

No, as Cainam says, tivo is stuck in a loop as its trying to "upgrade" from 2.5.5a to 2.5.5 (and failing because 2.5.5a is more recent - the dialup check just checks whether they differ, the later install on reboot checks version numbers).

Solutions:

1. Ring tivo CS and get someone to change his account to read 2.5.5a (which relies on getting someone with a clue)

2. Install 2.5.5 manually (assuming he doesn't need the teletext bugfix).


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

OFF TOPIC:

Carl - your link to 'Tivo TV Ads & PDF Manuals' no longer exists.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Yeah. I know. I'm going to fix it later today. Thanks 

Edit: Fixed!


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Quite a simple one really, have a search for a TV model number with the teletext bug, (Maybe someone will post a model number for you)

Call tivo customer services and say you have a new television that keeps going into standby and muting when the tivo is connected and looking at some forums I have been told to call customer services and ask for the 2.5.5a software as this will fix my issue, they will flag your tivo system number as should have the 2.5.5a software and then it will not try and change version every time it does a download.


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

Thanks guys, all of you, I really needed to rant and, althrough I'm still pi**ed at Tivo, I'm gonna leave it a couple days (might get a different lot and when I do call I'll ask to speak to a supervisor) then try the TV teletext bug. 
Seems stupid that they will flag my account to have new software for this but not otherwise!

Oh well, I'll let you all know what happens (possibly next week ) unless you hear a loud bang in Scotland or hear of said explosion!! <grin>


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

[/QUOTE]You say you have upgraded your hard drive twice before. How exactly did you do this and where did those drives come from?[/QUOTE]

Pete77, I brought the last one from TIVOHEAVEN (tivoheaven.co.uk)
The others I can't remember but think it was 9thtee (http://www.9thtee.com/tivoupgrades.htm)

The thing that gets me is that TIVO upgraded my software to 2.5.5a in the first place. I looked at TIVO one morning and noticed it had 2.5.5a on it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dragonlord666 said:


> The thing that gets me is that TIVO upgraded my software to 2.5.5a in the first place. I looked at TIVO one morning and noticed it had 2.5.5a on it.


That doesn't sound right to me but I suppose if a customer service rep got the wrong account up on his screen then may be it could some how happen?


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## Mike Jones (Feb 12, 2004)

If you need a tv name, tHe Sony 40" Bravia LCD tv has the teletext bug. 

TIVo customer services were really quick to sort this for me a year ago. 

Only problem is it overwrites the cachecard dial up instructions, but these are easy enough to fix.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Mike Jones said:


> If you need a tv name, tHe Sony 40" Bravia LCD tv has the teletext bug.
> 
> TIVo customer services were really quick to sort this for me a year ago.
> 
> Only problem is it overwrites the cachecard dial up instructions, but these are easy enough to fix.


Surely it also downgrades you to a non LBA48 enabled version of the Tivo kernel which you need to immediately update again with copykern before your Tivo does any more recordings if you have a drive over 137Gb in size in the machine?

Of course if the existing drive is under 137Gb in size then no problem.


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

Pete77 
Yeah this was a bit of a supprise to me as it was before I knew anything about hacking a tivo. Hell I did not even know you could open the damn thing LOL 
I just thought it was something they did and as everything was working I left it - it was only after a few weeks that the guide data did not download and I found this group I began to work out the problem. 


So when I call TIVO I just tell them I have a tv that keeps going into standby mode and muting the sound when TIVO is working? 
If they push for a TV name I say a ??? 
Mind you, if I get the two idiots I've spoken to so far they'll possibly say to use the OLD tv. 

I have a 250gb harddrive with a cachecard in the tivo at the moment from tivoheaven.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dragonlord,

Yes I suppose if you can persuade Tivo to change their records to 2.5.5a this should actually be fine as the software you have will then match what they expect so they won't try to "upgrade" you and nor will it stop your daily program data downloads.

The mystery though is how Tivo came to think you have version 2.5 on your Tivo though? How long has this problem been going on.


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> dragonlord,
> 
> Yes I suppose if you can persuade Tivo to change their records to 2.5.5a this should actually be fine as the software you have will then match what they expect so they won't try to "upgrade" you and nor will it stop your daily program data downloads.
> 
> The mystery though is how Tivo came to think you have version 2.5 on your Tivo though? How long has this problem been going on.


It's been over a year since I started having the TIVO running out of guide data and had to repeat guided setup each time

I have many times called TIVO CS about the no guide thing and mentioned to them that TIVO was trying to install some software when it re-booted but they just said "have you requested any upgrades?" as I hadn't I said "No" They said "well don't know why it's doing that then" - End of conversation - not once did they mention it might be the problem, I found that out on this list.


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

OK, sorry for the delay in posting but life got in the bloody way again.

Anyways, rang tivo CS and spoke to a david. said I had a new tv that kept going into standby & muting when tivo does anything, he asked for the make & model number (I gave my tv info), he said he's send to the usa to ask tivo to mark my account that I need 2.5.5a software update and am not just waiting to see if my prog data runs out or not.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Presumably you could call Tivo CS again in a few days time and check what version of the software they now think you have.


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

That's an idea as well. mind you I'd rather call CS as little as possible but I guess I can.
Also I guess I could restart Tivo when it's not recording and see if I get the "installing new software" message.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

dragonlord666 said:


> That's an idea as well. mind you I'd rather call CS as little as possible but I guess I can.
> 
> Also I guess I could restart Tivo when it's not recording and see if I get the "installing new software" message.


Or rather hopefully you now won't get this message.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It will say "Pending" under Phone Status of it's downloaded a new version.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> It will say "Pending" under Phone Status of it's downloaded a new version.


Surely it won't want to download a new version here though. Its just that the software versions will now match on the Tivo and on Tivo's database so the daily call will complete properly, including downloading the updated EPG data.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

You are correct


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

well I think it may have worked.
Dobby (my tivo) says via tivoweb that the last call Succeeded and the data is until Saturday, 3rd Mar 2007 (about 3 weeks, meaning the tivo will say 2nd March, go figure) at the moment it's recording almost non stop, loads of sci fi stuff on  , so when I get a few moments I'll try a reboot - should not see the installing message.

fingers cross an' all


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

Hey guys, thanx for all the info and tips.
Looks like everything is now OK, Dobby is now updating as it should.
I was going to post this a week or two ago but life kinda krept up on me.

when I restart dobby I don't get the "installing new software" message anymore and my guide data seems to be updating as it should (not that I'm saying that too loud - never know!!)

Thanks again

Gaz


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Its good to hear that it all worked out for you and that Dobby is doing his thing again as normal.

Its only a pity that Sky's Tivo Customer Service people don't seem to have had the correct training to know how to resolve this issue for customers without members of this group having to recommend special tactics when dealing with them.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

To be fair, the issue only arises normally if somebody installs an upgrade drive with software version 2.5.5a into a machine that's supposed to be 2.5.5. 

In this case, I know, the error seems to have been with TiVo's servers, but normally it's caused by a botched upgrade - which is not something the CS team have any need to know about.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> To be fair, the issue only arises normally if somebody installs an upgrade drive with software version 2.5.5a into a machine that's supposed to be 2.5.5.
> 
> In this case, I know, the error seems to have been with TiVo's servers, but normally it's caused by a botched upgrade - which is not something the CS team have any need to know about.


A good customer service worker who loves his customers and his job (such people admittedly as rare as hen's teeth though in the UK) becomes familiar with all the likely issues that may affect his or her customers in the real world.

The jobsworths (that is the vast majority of them) of course only know about the matters in their pre-prepared flow chart script and/or that were drummed to in them at the same time as they had that lobotomy back on the customer service person training course.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Do I get the impression that you don't like call centres Pete?  

I agree, it would be _nice_ if CS staff knew about and understood this problem - and some do - but you can't really get too upset that all of them don't as, normally, it is caused by something that should never happen - ie. a botched upgrade.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Do I get the impression that you don't like call centres Pete?


Well they can almost never answer any of my questions, which nearly always relate to policy issues that have not been covered on their training course. I'm sure they can answer stupid questions from stupid people who don't bother reading the instruction leaflet if they have a problem using an item.

If you complain their online banking service doesn't offer facility x while rival online banking service y does you usually receive some utter brain death type of reply such as that they have no opinion on or knowledge of the products or services of the products offered by their competitors. Customer service people seem to be created solely to stop the management of a company being aware of what real issues with the company and its products most customers actually have.

And yes unfortunately I do tend to think that most customer service advisers could have been happily placed on Douglas Adams "B Ark" (headed on a crash course to Golgafrincham in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy) along with all the telephone sanitisers and other equally useless and ineffective jobs created in so many large companies.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> I agree, it would be _nice_ if CS staff knew about and understood this problem - and some do - but you can't really get too upset that all of them don't as, normally, it is caused by something that should never happen - ie. a botched upgrade.


But at this point in time there are likely to be a lot of self upgraded machines out there in the UK and as Tivo doesn't offer a replacement better product or a repair service of their own they have to accept this as being the only way their customers can legitimately keep their units in use so that in many cases they can continue to pay Tivo another £120 per annum to receive the Tivo EPG Data service.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

The point, Pete, is that Tivo do not officially support upgraded machines, so why _should_ their staff have any knowledge of the problems that can be caused by something that they _don't support_?

Surely that's like calling the cust care line for your washing machine and asking them how to fix your telly!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Surely that's like calling the cust care line for your washing machine and asking them how to fix your telly!


No its like calling the washing machine customer care line and asking how to fit a new pump in the washing machine yourself to keep it going when the manufacturer no longer provides new pumps or a repair service itself but does still charge you £10 per month for the right to go on buying its own special unique propietary soap tablets which are the only type you can use to make this washing machine still run.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

dragonlord666 - Glad your Tivo is up and running again and that Tivo CS were able to make the necessary changes to get you going again.

Pete77 - If you take the screws off the back of your Tivo then you void the warranty and sacrifice support. We all understood that when we did it. If you take the motor out of your washing machine instead of using a registered service agent then the same rules apply the manufacturer has no requirement to support you either. If the manufacturer has stopped providing service and spares then your product is past the 5 years from the end of production and they are no longer legally obliged to help you, your product is end of life. Try asking Jaguar for an E-Type service manual.

You've also (again) made some very irritating comments about call centre staff. They suggest that you have little understanding about the low pay and pressurised environment these people work in. It's not uncommon for the phone to auto answer the next call as you hang up so they don't have the time or flexibility to research every query or escalate every angry customer. Staff are measured by the number of calls and the success rate of resolution.
For your information, the cost of answering the phone NOT actually proceeding to answer a query averages around £6 per call. It's unrealisitic and unreasonable to expect that person to be trained to expert level in the minutia of Tivo support, let alone unauthorised hacking and upgrading. The reason call centre staff work to call sheets and flow charts is because that is the most cost effective way to answer the most customers in the quickest possible time. In most call centres staff are not permitted to go 'off script' because it means they may inadvertently open the company up for liability and it means customers who can be helped wait longer for their call to be answered.
Try being polite the next time you speak to call centre staff and if they can't help you then do them and you a favour and immediately ask to speak to their supervisor - that gets them off the call and on to the next person who can't RTFM and you can speak to someone who can take time to respond off script.

For some reason you have no problem continuously raising the fact that one of the Tivo upgrade services charges more than you think reasonable, while acknowledging that they provide 1st class support - can you really not see the link or are you capable of holding two competely opposing views simultaneously?



Pete77 said:


> If you complain their online banking service doesn't offer facility x while rival online banking service y does you usually receive some utter brain death type of reply such as that they have no opinion on or knowledge of the products or services of the products offered by their competitors. Customer service people seem to be created solely to stop the management of a company being aware of what real issues with the company and its products most customers actually have.


If you want to complain about your online banking, use the online banking systems to do it - amazingly they are linked and run by the same people. Online banking and telephone banking are usually completely seperate branches in banks and have no ability to affect how each other operate. I used to help colate all the customer feedback for a major bank's online service. Every response was read and categorised, choice comments were lifted for quotes and it was all reported to the management team every month. They adapted the service based on customer feedback and the commercial priorities of providing a competitive service with a limited resource in a secure and sustainable way. One of the most common complaints was about a restriction on the amount of money you could transfer out of the bank in one go - but the restriction was based on a very carefully considered risk calculation on the cost to the bank of fradulent transfers.
If you really don't like someone's online banking and you do like another one then vote with your feet.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> Pete77 - If you take the screws off the back of your Tivo then you void the warranty and sacrifice support.


And what warranty and support would that be exactly on a Tivo sold to me five years ago? Presumably its precisely because Tivo customer services can't offer any service of any kind now that its more helpful and personally interested members of staff now point customers to www.tivoheaven.co.uk That is the members of staff who are not prepared to behave like a robot and take a let me be a human or I leave this place attitude to the customer service prison camp system.

[quote[You've also (again) made some very irritating comments about call centre staff. They suggest that you have little understanding about the low pay and pressurised environment these people work in. It's not uncommon for the phone to auto answer the next call as you hang up so they don't have the time or flexibility to research every query or escalate every angry customer. *Staff are measured by the number of calls* and the success rate of resolution..[/QUOTE]

It is the inhuman customer service call centre system that is the main problem although the problem frequently is that people with no people skills are employed to deal all day with people because its the nearest low paid, low skilled job they can find and not because they have a passion to help people. Bad customer service centres such as those run by BT or NatWest don't fire their grumpey or sulky customer service advisers because quality and customer happiness does not seem to matter to those companies. The credit card company MBNA uses an 0800 number for customer service and indeed all customer contact and clearly pays better wages as the staff are far more pleasant, helpful and intelligent and basically seem to be empowered to resolve issues for customers rather than taking the attitude that "I only work here mate and don't control how any of it runs".

If the only criteria is getting through the calls quickly regardless of whether customers are happy the whole system is wrong. Instead of retaining customers it is likely to make them leave. If you run a customer call centre that way you might as well not bother having one at all. In effect this is what Easyjet and Ryanair do by charging an 09 premium rate price to call and then if customers still won't take the hint and call anyway they usually casti their complaint into the nearest WPB or if you are lucky sending back a contemptuous reply to the effect that "we do it our way - like it or lump it". I detect in your manner that you are one of those customer service centre managers who has developed a dislike for customers - a common occupational hazard unfortunately. No one should work in a call centre 5 days a week, which is where the whole syndrome of bored and alienated staff comes from.

Well why don't we just agree to disagree because I think its fairly clear that when it comes to customer call centres your main priority is the poorly skilled staff not feeling harassed rather than the customers who keep the company in business being satisfied. Note by contrast I rarely have these problems with sales call centre workers, which says to me that the basic problem is the low skill sets and poor pay of people working on customer service lines. This despite them now usually being funded by the extra £2 per hour to the call centre 0870 levy.  :down:


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> ... the problem frequently is that _*people with no people skills*_ are employed


That explains why I can't get a job in one then. I _have_ skills 



Pete77 said:


> I detect in your manner that you are one of those customer service centre managers who has developed a dislike for customers - a common occupational hazard unfortunately.


Really? I have no idea what job the OP has. You changed your name to Clare Voyant recently, or something?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Really? I have no idea what job the OP has. You changed your name to Clare Voyant recently, or something?


He mentioned that he had done work that involved looking at call centre statistics. Of course perhaps that was just from the perspective of being a manager elsewhere in the company reading the regular customer service department summary reports of the main issues that were received?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> That explains why I can't get a job in one then. I _have_ skills


Are you good at doing what you are told to without deviating from it to the letter. And are you good at having to fob off unhappy customers with genuine issues with implausible stock excuses hour after hour?

And are you good at being constantly tracked and picked up on the most trivial infraction in deviating from the standard big company say nothing call centre script?

If not then you probably have too many skills and too many opinions to make a decent call centre worker.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> And what warranty and support would that be exactly on a Tivo sold to me five years ago?


My point exactly. Why would customer services spend any time or money on training to support an end of life product? Customer services are there to answer the phones and use the support system to answer the query as best they can, then get on with supporting all the other current products in Sky's lineup. Some people take more of an interest than that which is to be aplauded but not expected.



Pete77 said:


> I detect in your manner that you are one of those customer service centre managers who has developed a dislike for customers - a common occupational hazard unfortunately.


No, I don't run a call centre.

I have worked in telephone support, but I was supporting a Virtual Reality Tookit and could often spend days answering a customer query, sometimes by getting a new release of the product out. My customers were paying a minimum of £1500 a year to get my number. You have to pay to get very high service.

I've worked in service industries - petrol stations, retail, cash & carry, trade show rep. so I have sympathy with people who have to spend all day facing customers who think that shouting at the trolley collector registers a complaint with the Manager.

Complain to the appropriate person in a constructive manner and you may get what you want. Complaining at someone on minimum wage, factory farmed on calls per hour is a waste of time, and helps to make a soul destroying job more stressful. You don't upset Natwest by being nasty to someone on the phone, you just upset that person and make their life worse for no sensible reason I can see.



Pete77 said:


> He mentioned that he had done work that involved looking at call centre statistics. Of course perhaps that was just from the perspective of being a manager elsewhere in the company reading the regular customer service department summary reports of the main issues that were received?


No, you didn't read my reply properly.



AMc said:


> I used to help colate all the customer feedback for a major bank's online service.


 Amazingly enough they are deeply interested in what their customers think and what they would like to see improved. Online banking is so much more cost effective for a retail bank than any other retail channel that all the major banks want the best product possible. My job was part of a broader reporting process on the overall customer experience of their online banking.



Pete77 said:


> Well why don't we just agree to disagree because I think its fairly clear that when it comes to customer call centres your main priority is the poorly skilled staff not feeling harassed rather than the customers who keep the company in business being satisfied.


I don't mind the call centre methodology or 0870 numbers or even premium rate numbers. Providing even basic customer service is expensive and most customers never call. Most people who call have comparitively simple problems which can be resolved from the scripts and they're happy customers. If the scripts didn't work then they wouldn't be used. Every angry Joe who rings up for a rant costs the business money and ironically indirectly costs all the other customers money.

A customer using self service support online costs a business about 60p a transaction and doing the same thing by phone £6 so I prefer that route. When I've exhausted that option then I call. When I do call a company I'm polite to the person on the other end. If I'm not happy with their response or my query goes beyond their experience then I ask them to put me through to a supervisor who may actually be empowered to help.

I've read a lot of your posts about 0870 and the terrible experience you get from call centres and it doesn't measure up with my own experience. I've also read you berating people for the prices they choose to charge for their services while agreeing that they provide excellent customer service - the irony of these two positions is clearly lost on you so I won't labour the point.

Based on your posting style here you appear to be a very angry person and that translates into how you react to other people and consequentially how they react to you.


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## dragonlord666 (Nov 2, 2005)

OK well Dobby is working and just to point out it seems that tivo CS UK had to contact Tivo USA to get the server updated.

Anyways, I just hope it will continue to work correctly from now on.

Has anyone heard about the NTL/cable/Virgin merger getting rid of the Basic Package?
this, I take it, means we would loose Sky one etc.

Maybe it's time to A) start a new thread & B) move to Sky instead of Ntl (or whatever they are called now {Virgin Media or somesuch})


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

AMc said:


> When I do call a company I'm polite to the person on the other end. If I'm not happy with their response or my query goes beyond their experience then I ask them to put me through to a supervisor who may actually be empowered to help.


Absolutely. When I do need to complain, I even go so far as to say to the person "I'm not getting as you, but the company you work for" or something like that. These people are only human; despite what anyone (ie Pete) might say.



dragonlord666 said:


> Has anyone heard about the NTL/cable/Virgin merger getting rid of the Basic Package? this, I take it, means we would loose Sky one etc.


You know, I could have sworn there was a thread about it somewhere  

Basically, the only channels that _may_ disappear from VM are Sky One, Sky Sports news and a couple of others that no-one watches anyway. Apparently


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Basically, the only channels that _may_ disappear from VM are Sky One, Sky Sports news and a couple of others that no-one watches anyway. Apparently


Or so TCM2007 would have us believe as a man with 300 channels to pick from and an unlimited channel package budget.


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## SilkMan (Feb 13, 2007)

Pete77 said:


> Or so TCM2007 would have us believe as a man with 300 channels to pick from and an unlimited channel package budget.


I'd refer you to AMc's post :



AMc said:


> Based on your posting style here you appear to be a very angry person and that translates into how you react to other people and consequentially how they react to you.


I remember the bad old days before moderators took a firmer stand, when a single self-opinionated abuser with time on their hands could ruin a newsgroup, causing all sorts of flame wars. Pete77, you need to get out more.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

SilkMan said:


> I remember the bad old days


And they ended, when? 



SilkMan said:


> Pete77, you need to get out more.


I think we all do


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

SilkMan said:


> I remember the bad old days before moderators took a firmer stand, when a single self-opinionated abuser with time on their hands could ruin a newsgroup, causing all sorts of flame wars. Pete77, you need to get out more.


I find it strange that someone making only their second post in the forum would already find it appropriate and necessary to dicate to other members the manner in which they should post.

In my experience of web forums any newbie taking such a bold stand with so little existing reputation in the forum is almost bound to be immediately shot down in flames.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I find it strange that someone making only their second post in the forum would already find it appropriate and necessary to dicate to other members the manner in which they should post.


Quantity != Quality


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> I find it strange that someone making only their second post in the forum would already find it appropriate and necessary to dicate to other members the manner in which they should post.


Some might say a newbie with an attitude is really an oldie with a new posting id... ?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Some might say a newbie with an attitude is really an oldie with a new posting id... ?


You might very well say that but I could not possibly comment.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

verses said:


> Quantity != Quality


Not necessarily but a new member of any organisation is usually well advised to exercise at least modest discretion.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

I think a newbie who makes 2 posts in 1 month where both posts make total sense is far better than someone who has been a forum member for 6 months and averaged 300 posts per month with a very large proportion of them being argumentative and having no real purpose in the world of Tivos.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> I think a newbie who makes 2 posts in 1 month where both posts make total sense is far better than someone who has been a forum member for 6 months and averaged 300 posts per month with a very large proportion of them being argumentative and having no real purpose in the world of Tivos.


Are you also going to voice that opinion to our top posting forum member from across the pond - jsmeeker.

I must say there is quite a little club of self righteous posters in this forum who seem to be jealous of anyone who has more to say about Tivos than they do.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I must say there is quite a little club of self righteous posters in this forum who seem to be jealous of anyone who has more to say about Tivos than they do.


The irony being that most of your posts are not Tivo-related either


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> The irony being that most of your posts are not Tivo-related either


I think a statistical analysis will show otherwise.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Go on then, prove it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> Go on then, prove it.


You think I'm really going to re-read and grade all 1,817 of my posts!

Even then you wouldn't agree with how I had graded them.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I think a statistical analysis will show otherwise.


I think it would show that you drag out your hobby horses all the time (Sky are too expensive, OFCOM are in the pocket of New Labour, Tivo upgrade support should be free, Samsung drives are lovely because mine work OK, everyone can afford a lifetime sub, 0870 call centres are bad & staffed by rude people who should be fired, the Author of Endpad has more money than sense...) - Periodically you do post a copy/paste list of links to other people's pages, I'll give you that.

In a recent thread you tried to suggest that I didn't know what had wiped my /var partition when I knew because I was there  that running guided set up was responsible. I don't see how that moved the discussion forward, it was just argumentative.

In this thread you built an entire fictional life for me based on an assumption about what I do for a living and launched a personal attack because of it.



Pete77 said:


> You think I'm really going to re-read and grade all 1,817 of my posts!
> Even then you wouldn't agree with how I had graded them.


No of course you're not but you did claim the facts were on your side.
I'm confident no-one thinks I live under a bridge and I have no need to prove that either.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc you also seem to actually be a very opinionated person who seems determined to believe there is only one correct and legitimate way to behave in web forums and that your way is the right and only way. But when you become part of a web forum you are in fact likely to encounter all of society's personality types.

You strike me as one who thinks there is only one correct method to conduct yourself and that the rest of us deviants should probably all be shipped off to Devils Island so that you mainstream guys can all continue to enjoy your nice clean and righteous lives.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

You know it's funny, I've been here for nearly 5 years and you're the first person to make that assumption.

In my first response directly to you on this thread I suggested a couple of strategies that might help you to get a better level of service when you contacted a call centre and a bank. The advice was intended to help, but obviously fell on deaf ears.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> In my first response directly to you on this thread I suggested a couple of strategies that might help you to get a better level of service when you contacted a call centre and a bank. The advice was intended to help, but obviously fell on deaf ears.


I am actually nice to and have productive conversations with customer service advisers who take an interest in what they do, have some brain power and try to help customers as much as they can do within the remit of the job. My problems always develop with the brain dead, personality lacking numbskulls who seem to hate their customers and usually find a reason to refuse to transfer you to their supervisor as well if you request them to do so. And if you persist in asking to be transferred then usually they cut you off knowing there is no way to trace them in a multi region call centre structure (at very big companies) and also that call centre culture makes it almost impossible to succesffully register a complaint against a call centre adviser.


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