# The MPEG-4 letter from Comcast



## kupe

Hey gang-

Got a letter today from Comcast/Xfinity that our Tivo Series 3 (and I'm assuming they mean our Tivo HD) is not compatible with an upcoming change to their service (MPEG-4).

Surprised to not see this here or in a sticky or in the Official Comcast Cablecard thread. (Yes I searched so everyone just be nice.)

Is our trusty Tivo HD really hosed?

Thanks!

Kupe

EDIT- We're in the Atlanta Comcast market for those following this transition.


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## dlfl

That this type of thing was happening or about to happen has been covered well in these forums, unless they mean *all* channels will be MPEG-4, which seems doubtful.


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## dswallow

You'll need a TiVo Premiere or Roamio model for MPEG-4 support; you won't be able to receive any channels that get transitioned over to MPEG-4 using the HD/Series 3 models.


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## kupe

Thanks gang. Like I said the letter from Comcast just arrived today. End of June....yikes. It says all HD channels will be affected (we're Atlanta market). 

A different subject I realize, but will our WD MyDVR Expander (same vintage as our Tivo HD) work with a new Roamio?

Tivo Shopping,

Kupe


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## dswallow

kupe said:


> Thanks gang. Like I said the letter from Comcast just arrived today. End of June....yikes. It says all HD channels will be affected (we're Atlanta market).
> 
> A different subject I realize, but will our WD MyDVR Expander (same vintage as our Tivo HD) work with a new Roamio?
> 
> Tivo Shopping,
> 
> Kupe


I believe it will but I wouldn't use it; the new Roamio's all have bigger hard drives than the HD anyway. And it becomes an additional point of failure to all of your recordings, plus it's already a pretty old device most likely.

As for getting a new Roamio, the best deal you'll find out there is using a discount coupon from user spherular and buying it direct from TiVo.

Here's a thread on it: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516044


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## kupe

dswallow said:


> As for getting a new Roamio, the best deal you'll find out there is using a discount coupon from user spherular and buying it direct from TiVo.
> 
> Here's a thread on it: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516044


Wow Doug that is an amazing deal! It takes a little of the sting out of this. Thank you!!!

So is our beloved Tivo HD basically now worthless? I don't imagine anyone would pay anything for one if they don't work with HD channels on Comcast much longer. This is really sad. Not the money part- the fact that our beloved Tivo HD that works perfectly is going dark for HD.

Kupe


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## HerronScott

kupe said:


> Wow Doug that is an amazing deal! It takes a little of the sting out of this. Thank you!!!
> 
> So is our beloved Tivo HD basically now worthless? I don't imagine anyone would pay anything for one if they don't work with HD channels on Comcast much longer. This is really sad. Not the money part- the fact that our beloved Tivo HD that works perfectly is going dark for HD.
> 
> Kupe


If you have lifetime they'll have some value for OTA or in the short term for cable companies that aren't using MPEG4 yet.

I'm pretty sure it's going to take Comcast a while to transition all their locations to MPEG4 so I'm hoping our S3's will be good for a few more years before they get to our small town. 

Scott


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## ej42137

These last few posts have demonstrated unacceptable behavior for the TiVo Community Forums. Any more outbursts of calmness or thoughtful reactions will be reported and you will be subject to possible suspension and/or banishment.

*You have been warned!*


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## WilfBrim

I received the same letter today, and have been cruising about to see if there may be any better news. It appears not. They are going to transition all channels, except those local OTA (which are in MPEG-2 and I guess the transcoding would be too much of a hassle) to MPEG-4. 

Unless I'm misunderstanding things the TivoHD will be the next thing to useless. I have lifetime on it, so I'm more than a little bit bummed out on this. So, questions:

1) Is Tivo going to do anything (trade in offer) to soften the blow? Would it be worth a call to them to see if they could do for me? Or am I kidding myself?

2) Is there any value in trying to sell the HD with lifetime? With the Roamio OTA available I don't think that I'd get much for it, and isn't selling it with the lifetime subscription intact a TOS violation?

Oh, and pay no attention to the location: that is old and I can't figure out how to change it. I'm in northwest Atlanta.


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## wmcbrine

kupe said:


> So is our beloved Tivo HD basically now worthless? I don't imagine anyone would pay anything for one if they don't work with HD channels on Comcast much longer.


There are lots of TVs out there that aren't connected to Comcast. But it's not worth much -- it's two generations behind.



WilfBrim said:


> ... isn't selling it with the lifetime subscription intact a TOS violation?


Not at all. People do that all the time. It's kind of the only thing that creates any resale value for a TiVo at all (any model).


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## Wil

wmcbrine said:


> it's [Tivo s3/HD] not worth much -- it's two generations behind.


The s3 and HD allow the possibility of disabling the cci bytes, very useful for those affected channels still within the tuning capability. Such shows recorded on the s3/HD are fully functional for the viewer, and retain that functionality after being moved to, say, a Roamio (while the same show recorded on the same channel on the Roamio itself is crippled).


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## HerronScott

WilfBrim said:


> 1) Is Tivo going to do anything (trade in offer) to soften the blow? Would it be worth a call to them to see if they could do for me? Or am I kidding myself?


Someone posted here that they had gotten a special deal from TiVo because of this but not sure they indicated what it was. Depending on how long you've had a TiVo but you could be eligible for the loyalty deal although note that this was originally 10 years.



WilfBrim said:


> 2) Is there any value in trying to sell the HD with lifetime? With the Roamio OTA available I don't think that I'd get much for it, and isn't selling it with the lifetime subscription intact a TOS violation?


Check out eBay sold listings. There are a couple really low ones which probably have the original hard drives but if you have an upgraded drive I'd guess you should be able to get around $180 depending on how much you charge for shipping.

Scott


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## WilfBrim

WilfBrim said:


> 1) Is Tivo going to do anything (trade in offer) to soften the blow? Would it be worth a call to them to see if they could do for me? Or am I kidding myself?


So, a follow up. I did call Tivo sales today and explained the situation. They offered a Roamio Plus (refurbed, but I didn't learn that until I looked at the sales receipt) with lifetime for $525.  Now, as an aside, I have 3 units in the house (counting the soon to be sent to the showers TivoHD), plus a mini, so I am a pretty good customer, and (I'd guess) that YMMV in repeating this.

I would, however, recommend anybody else with a Series3 call Tivo and see if they will extend a similar type deal to you. I'm slightly unhappy that the unit is a refurb, but my Premier is a refurb, and you can't tell the difference, and it comes with the same warranty, so it probably doesn't matter.


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## mlcarson

Dslreports.com is running a story today about another round of Comcast speed increases incoming but also has the following tidbit:
"Other notable items on Comcast's radar include the full migrations to higher-quality MPEG4 TV signals, which is expected at the tail end of this year".

MPEG4 would normally be a good thing but I'm still running a TIVO HD which doesn't support it. This particular TIVO ignores the CCI flag which has been kind of nice. It sounds like it'll be completely obsolete by the end of the year. 

I'm also running a WMC system with an SD HDHomerun Prime which is also becoming obsolete with Windows 10 on 7/29/15. Granted I can still use the WMC system for many years but it's definitely a dead platform now. The Tivo Roamio's are looking better and better at this point.


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## wmcbrine

It'll be funny if Comcast beats Fios to full-scale MPEG-4 conversion, after Fios had such a head start.


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## jlb

WilfBrim said:


> .......They are going to transition all channels, except those local OTA (which are in MPEG-2 and I guess the transcoding would be too much of a hassle) to MPEG-4.......


Please correct me if I am wrong, but since all we subscribe to/care about is our locals in HD, so we would be ok, right?


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## davezatz

Anyone have a copy of the letter that they're willing to share? I will cut out any personally identifiable info. Thanks!

[email protected]


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## chiguy50

davezatz said:


> Anyone have a copy of the letter that they're willing to share? I will cut out any personally identifiable info. Thanks!
> 
> [email protected]


I'm not sure whether this is the specific Comcast notice you are looking for, but a photo copy of it with the personal info excised was posted back in April on the AVSForum by member ChazzMatt:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/188046-atlanta-ga-comcast-56.html#post33495922


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## emfinlay

I have a Series3 with Lifetime and Comcast. Tivo confirmed last night via telephone that if I upgrade to a Roamio or Premiere, I can add lifetime service for $99.99.


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## davezatz

chiguy50 said:


> I'm not sure whether this is the specific Comcast notice you are looking for, but a photo copy of it with the personal info excised was posted back in April on the AVSForum by member ChazzMatt:
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/45-local-hdtv-info-reception/188046-atlanta-ga-comcast-56.html#post33495922


Sweet, thanks! Wondering if there is a different letter they send to folks they identify as having CableCARD/TiVo.


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## kupe

davezatz said:


> Anyone have a copy of the letter that they're willing to share? I will cut out any personally identifiable info. Thanks!
> 
> [email protected]


Here you go Dave. I'm the OP and I received the letter the first few days of June. The letter itself is undated and unsigned. I removed my personal info but the rest is exactly as received.

Kupe


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## davezatz

kupe said:


> Here you go Dave. I'm the OP and I received the letter the first few days of June. The letter itself is undated and unsigned. I removed my personal info but the rest is exactly as received.


Awesome, thank you!


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## unitron

emfinlay said:


> I have a Series3 with Lifetime and Comcast. Tivo confirmed last night via telephone that if I upgrade to a Roamio or Premiere, I can add lifetime service for $99.99.


Is that a transfer of lifetime from the S3, leaving it unsubscribed and with no resale value, or would they be selling you a different lifetime sub on the S4 or S5?


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## murgatroyd

unitron said:


> Is that a transfer of lifetime from the S3, leaving it unsubscribed and with no resale value, or would they be selling you a different lifetime sub on the S4 or S5?


The deal I'm most familiar with is that when you buy the new TiVo, you get to put Lifetime on your older TiVo for $99. Your current service plan gets swapped to the new TiVo.

As you said, it's easier to sell the S3 if there's lifetime on it, but it also simplifies transferring any recordings that might be on the S3 that the customer wants to keep. You can't transfer recordings from the old machine to the new if the old machine has no service on it.


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## emfinlay

They said I could add lifetime to the new unit for 99.99. No mention was made of transferring service. I thought it was decent of Tivo, this was not their fault that the S3unit will become pretty useless. I bought a TCD758250 on Ebay (4 tuners, 2 TB) that I will add to my account with Lifetime when it arrives.


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## jlb

I'm still trying to understand what it means:



> .......They are going to transition all channels, except those local OTA (which are in MPEG-2 and I guess the transcoding would be too much of a hassle) to MPEG-4.......


Does that mean if I only subscribe to "limited basic" for the HD locals that I will be ok? Or does it mean you're ok if you receive those channels OTA via an antenna?

I need to understand so I can properly start to set my family's expectations about a potential upcoming cost..........


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## lpwcomp

jlb said:


> I'm still trying to understand what it means:
> 
> Does that mean if I only subscribe to "limited basic" for the HD locals that I will be ok? Or does it mean you're ok if you receive those channels OTA via an antenna?
> 
> I need to understand so I can properly start to set my family's expectations about a potential upcoming cost..........


It means that locals will not be converted to MPEG-4, so a Series 3 TiVo will be still be useful.


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## unitron

emfinlay said:


> They said I could add lifetime to the new unit for 99.99. No mention was made of transferring service. I thought it was decent of Tivo, this was not their fault that the S3unit will become pretty useless. I bought a TCD758250 on Ebay (4 tuners, 2 TB) that I will add to my account with Lifetime when it arrives.


You might want to double check that offer to see if it's only "You can buy a TiVo from TiVo and get lifetime on it for $99".


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## Series3Sub

It seems that while TiVo is offering Lifetime on a new unit for only $99, you still have to pay either full or slightly discounted Roamios. Of course the more desired Plus and Pro are gonna really cost you, even with a discount. Also, factor in having to buy some Minis (the cheaper option to replacing multiple S3, HD, or HDXL units), and this can be a very expensive change-over. I really feel TiVo should be doing more, but the sale of hardware is the only place they are gonna make money from this change, since almost everyone is going to take the $99 Lifetime option. TiVo just can't give away the TiVo boxes, unfortunately. It would be a near total loss to them. Still, it seems not the "love" TiVo likes to talk about and certainly this change is for the rich. I can see a lot of people--who don't even know this forum exists--evealuating the costs and just giving up on TiVo and going with the far more economical MSO DVR's and MSO whole home systems.


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## Nelson2009

Serious ? I didn't see this coming I still own Tivo HD with lifetime for 6 years 
when is comcast deploy MPEG-4 in Massachuetts? 
Hope able to watch ESPN AMC etc


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## HerronScott

TiVo is currently listing the following Comcast locations.

https://support.tivo.com/SupportPortalArticleViewPage?artURL=/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets

Compatibility

Comcast has begun the transition to the HD Enhanced Programfrom HD content in MPEG2 format to MPEG4. This new format delivers crystal-clear HD signal more efficiently than ever before. 
Markets with HD Enhanced Programs

These areas have already started the transition and have HD Enhanced Programs readily available:

California
Central, CA
Fresno, CA
Sacramento, CA

Georgia
Augusta, GA
Atlanta, GA

Illinois
Champaign, IL
Chicago, IL
Springfield, IL

Indiana
South Bend, IN

Oregon
Portland, OR

Tennessee
Nashville, TN

This transition means that HD cable channels in these regions will not be viewable on older equipment that is incompatible with the new format.

NOTE: This only applies to Comcast HD programming. If you do not have a Comcast HD package, you will not be affected by this transition.

Feature

TiVo devices in these areas will be affected in the following ways:

Roamio Plus/Pro: These DVRs are compatible with MPEG4, but the built-in transcoder for streaming will be incompatible. You will receive your HD channels on the DVR, but will be unable to stream content to other devices.

Streaming functionality will return in mid-2015, when a Stream software update that provides compatibility with MPEG4 will be released.

Roamio 4-tuner/Premiere Series: Compatible with MPEG4. No change is required.

Series3/HD: IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED! These DVRs will lose everything except local HD channels. All other HD cable channels will be incompatible.

You will need to upgrade to a Roamio Series DVR to continue to receive Comcast HD channels via TiVo. To ease this transition, TiVo has special Roamio upgrade offers for affected customers. Contact TiVo Support to upgrade today.

Series1 and Series2: You will need to replace your existing cable box with an updated cable box from Comcast to continue to receive content. Existing cable boxes are not compatible with MPEG4.

Alternatively, if you want to do away with your cable box entirely, take advantage of this opportunity to upgrade to a Roamio Series DVR. Contact TiVo Support to upgrade today.

TiVo Stream: These devices are not yet compatible with MPEG4. TiVo Stream will not work with the upgraded Comcast HD channels until mid-2015, when a Stream software update that provides compatibility with MPEG4 will be released.

TiVo is working hard to minimize the impact of this transition on our customers. If you live in the affected areas and own a Series3 or earlier TiVo device, Contact TiVo Support for special upgrade offers.


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## Nelson2009

Thank you for post it. 
I'm gonna stick with TiVo HD while it still working.


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## johnh123

Has the streaming update come out yet? It is past mid-2015...


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## klgood1

I just got my first letter today (that I've seen, anyway), in the SW Chicago suburbs. Anybody else just get notified in the Chicago area? I guess I should pick up a few more mini's to replace my 3 Series 3's. Those things have lasted forever.


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## lpwcomp

johnh123 said:


> Has the streaming update come out yet? It is past mid-2015...


Yes.


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## call-911

klgood1 said:


> I just got my first letter today (that I've seen, anyway), in the SW Chicago suburbs. Anybody else just get notified in the Chicago area? I guess I should pick up a few more mini's to replace my 3 Series 3's. Those things have lasted forever.


Yep. In Mokena... Just got it today.


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## jscopes

klgood1 said:


> I just got my first letter today (that I've seen, anyway), in the SW Chicago suburbs. Anybody else just get notified in the Chicago area? I guess I should pick up a few more mini's to replace my 3 Series 3's. Those things have lasted forever.


I just got my letter (I'm in Bolingbrook)... I can't say that I'm happy however this will be a good opportunity to get onto the current gen of devices.

I currently have a HD (with lifetime) and a Dual Tuner Premier and I'm adding a 3rd TV to the household so I would soon have a need for a mini. Is the best solution for me going to be to dump everything I currently have and go with a Bolt + 2 minis? This is really not a good time of year for that kind of a cash outlay! When I call Tivo I'm going to really play up the point that I have to toss two perfectly good devices away because of this and see if I can work that into a nice discount.

Also, did anyone call comcast and get an ETA on when the switch is actually going to happen?


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## lpwcomp

Don't dispose of those S3's too quickly. I got a text on 12/11 asking for people with TiVo HD Series3 and Comcast in Georgia, Illinois, or California to help test something. Maybe they are reconsidering.


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## Wil

lpwcomp said:


> Don't dispose of those S3's too quickly. I got a text on 12/11 asking for people with TiVo HD Series3 and Comcast in Georgia, Illinois, or California to help test something. Maybe they are reconsidering.


They're probably going to test whether telegrams could be sent over wire by Morse code to the Tivo 3s. I doubt that could ever be made to work on such primitive devices.


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## shwru980r

lpwcomp said:


> Don't dispose of those S3's too quickly. I got a text on 12/11 asking for people with TiVo HD Series3 and Comcast in Georgia, Illinois, or California to help test something. Maybe they are reconsidering.


I wonder if Tivo's legal team thinks Tivo would lose if this issue went to court?


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## Wil

shwru980r said:


> I wonder if Tivo's legal team thinks Tivo would lose if this issue went to court?


Doubtful. Tivo has had such great success (poor actually, but fantastic relative to the expectations from their inept legal representation) that they probably have a lot of misplaced confidence.


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## HerronScott

lpwcomp said:


> Don't dispose of those S3's too quickly. I got a text on 12/11 asking for people with TiVo HD Series3 and Comcast in Georgia, Illinois, or California to help test something. Maybe they are reconsidering.


If you have an HD and are in those locations on Comcast, please send your TSN's to Margret! I'm not sure what else they would be testing in these locations other than updating the HD to support it given Comcast's move to MPEG4 there.

Unfortunately the original S3 OLED is not mentioned. 

See this post.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=535049

Scott


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## lew

shwru980r said:


> I wonder if Tivo's legal team thinks Tivo would lose if this issue went to court?


Not a chance. Maybe Comcast made a request.


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## lpwcomp

lew said:


> Not a chance. Maybe Comcast made a request.


I suppose it's _*barely*_ possible that people were converting their S3's to OTA thus losing Comcast ADO revenue, but it is extremely unlikely. Especially considering the fact that local channels aren't being converted.


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## gprellwitz

jscopes said:


> I just got my letter (I'm in Bolingbrook)... I can't say that I'm happy however this will be a good opportunity to get onto the current gen of devices.
> 
> I currently have a HD (with lifetime) and a Dual Tuner Premier and I'm adding a 3rd TV to the household so I would soon have a need for a mini. Is the best solution for me going to be to dump everything I currently have and go with a Bolt + 2 minis? This is really not a good time of year for that kind of a cash outlay! When I call Tivo I'm going to really play up the point that I have to toss two perfectly good devices away because of this and see if I can work that into a nice discount.
> 
> Also, did anyone call comcast and get an ETA on when the switch is actually going to happen?


I'm in Romeoville and got the letter yesterday too. I have an S3 w/OLED (648) and lifetime that I only got 2 years ago. I also have an S3 with a defunct hard drive (652) that I may try to resurrect if SpinRite can solve the problem. I was thinking along the lines of a Bolt too. I admit I haven't kept up with changes to the Tivo lineup.


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## Pokemon_Dad

ej42137 said:


> These last few posts have demonstrated unacceptable behavior for the TiVo Community Forums. Any more outbursts of calmness or thoughtful reactions will be reported and you will be subject to possible suspension and/or banishment.
> 
> *You have been warned!*


 Sometimes I sooo wish these forums had a "like" button. [*Edit:* Oh wait, there is a "Thanks" button now. Done! Thanks ej42137 for clicking that button here to give me a clue!]



HerronScott said:


> TiVo is currently listing the following Comcast locations.
> 
> https://support.tivo.com/SupportPortalArticleViewPage?artURL=/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets
> 
> ...<snip>


Thanks for the link! That page has since been updated. It now includes my region (San Francisco Bay Area), but also now separates the HD models from the rest of Series 3, and says my HD units will be OK after an update "sometime in the first half of 2016". That's a relief, as I just got an email from TiVo telling me I can disregard letters from Comcast about this, but it only mentioned Bolts, Roamios, and Premiers, not the HDs. Owners of older Series 3 models are however still out of luck.

The message from TiVo also says the MPEG4 changeover in the SF area is scheduled for April 2016. I tried to confirm that with @comcastcares but they have no idea. I'm hoping the update for our aging HDs will roll out in time. Unfortunately, everything will probably all work out just fine.

I say "unfortunately" because for a long moment there I was looking longingly at an upgraded Bolt from Weaknees. Our old TiVo HDs are on their last legs - literally, the plastic feet are cracking off - but I guess we'll just remain calm and soldier on.


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## lew

lpwcomp said:


> I suppose it's _*barely*_ possible that people were converting their S3's to OTA thus losing Comcast ADO revenue, but it is extremely unlikely. Especially considering the fact that local channels aren't being converted.


I don't have Comcast. I was wondering if Comcast supplied TivoHD boxes and wanted to avoid having to swap out the hardware.

Also possible tivo customers who haven't upgraded might "upgrade" to Comcast DVRs. Keeping those customers with tivo gives tivo a shot of converting them to new equipment later.

Cable companies have been going to mp4 for the last few years. Strange, assuming its true, tivo is now considering supporting mp4 on older hardware.


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## lpwcomp

lew said:


> I don't have Comcast. I was wondering if Comcast supplied TivoHD boxes and wanted to avoid having to swap out the hardware.


Never heard of them doing that. Premieres maybe, not TiVoHDs.



lew said:


> Also possible tivo customers who haven't upgraded might "upgrade" to Comcast DVRs. Keeping those customers with tivo gives tivo a shot of converting them to new equipment later.


Comcast would definitely prefer that you "upgrade" to X1.



lew said:


> Cable companies have been going to mp4 for the last few years. Strange, assuming its true, tivo is now considering supporting mp4 on older hardware.


It was a fairly minor issue until Comcast started doing it. The thing is that the older (TiVo HD) _*hardware*_ supports mp4 and in fact you can _*push*_ an mp4 to a TiVo HD and it plays just fine. What it won't do is record one via a tuner nor will a pulled one play properly.


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## klgood1

Minis are $107.65 on Amazon right now, if you need to replace a box or two (like me): http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-Mini-Remote-Current-Version/dp/B00TIBFEIA/ref=sr_1_1?s=tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1450908342&sr=1-1&keywords=tivo+mini


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## gweempose

I just got back from vacation and found this letter from Comcast waiting for me. Since I only have Premiers, Roamios and Minis, is it correct to assume that Comcast's migration to mp4 in my area will have no affect on me?

My parents, on the other hand, have two of my older Series 3 units. Will they need to upgrade their boxes?


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## unitron

gweempose said:


> I just got back from vacation and found this letter from Comcast waiting for me. Since I only have Premiers, Roamios and Minis, is it correct to assume that Comcast's migration to mp4 in my area will have no affect on me?
> 
> My parents, on the other hand, have two of my older Series 3 units. Will they need to upgrade their boxes?


Are those 648s or 652/658s?

If the latter, you may find this of interest

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=535049


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## gweempose

unitron said:


> Are those 648s or 652/658s?
> 
> If the latter, you may find this of interest
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=535049


Thanks for the link!

They are both 652s. Looks like there could be hope for my parents' old boxes after all.


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## cherry ghost

gweempose said:


> I just got back from vacation and found this letter from Comcast waiting for me. Since I only have Premiers, Roamios and Minis, is it correct to assume that Comcast's migration to mp4 in my area will have no affect on me?
> 
> My parents, on the other hand, have two of my older Series 3 units. Will they need to upgrade their boxes?


I'm surprised they haven't seen a change yet. I'm on the north side of Chicago and about 85% of the non-local HD channels have been changed to h.264.


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## murgatroyd

lpwcomp said:


> Never heard of them doing that. Premieres maybe, not TiVoHDs.
> 
> Comcast would definitely prefer that you "upgrade" to X1.
> 
> It was a fairly minor issue until Comcast started doing it. The thing is that the older (TiVo HD) _*hardware*_ supports mp4 and in fact you can _*push*_ an mp4 to a TiVo HD and it plays just fine. What it won't do is record one via a tuner nor will a pulled one play properly.


I need a 'transfers for dummies' chart.

So far I've only used TiVo Desktop Plus and kmttg. I know of pyTiVo but have never used it.

I have the desktop computer and a Roamio. My TiVoHD is a 652.

What transfers are pushes and which ones are pulls?


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## lpwcomp

murgatroyd said:


> I need a 'transfers for dummies' chart.
> 
> So far I've only used TiVo Desktop Plus and kmttg. I know of pyTiVo but have never used it.
> 
> I have the desktop computer and a Roamio. My TiVoHD is a 652.
> 
> What transfers are pushes and which ones are pulls?


Assuming you're referring to transfers _*to*_ the TiVo, then if it is initiated from the computer, it's a push. Initiated from "Now Playing" or "My Shows" on the TiVo, it is a pull. A push has to use the TiVo mind server to tell the TiVo to request the transfer. A pull is all local.

kmttg doesn't do either. I believe that TD+ can do a push but having never used it, I don't know if it will push an mp4 w/o transcoding.

You might want to consider installing pytivo.


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## jscopes

Has anyone called Tivo to inquire about an "upgrade" yet? 

I've tried calling a couple of times and have been a bit underwhelmed... they seem to be at $49 for the 4 tuner, 500GB Roamio with a $15/mo 1 year commitment. 

That offer might be a no-brainer for a single TV household but I don't feel like that's a big enough unit for me to make the switch and convert to a whole-house unit for 2-3 TV's. 

The best that they can do for a 6 tuner Pro is the $499 + $99 lifetime offer that tenured customers were getting earlier this year. Which makes me feel like I'm not getting anything extra for my inconvenience in this matter. 

Does it seem like 4 tuner and 500GB is enough for 3 TV's (with very little live TV being watched on one of them)? 

If I bite I'd have to then upgrade my premier to lifetime and then sell it off along with the lifetimed HD XL (and also purchase 2 mini's).


----------



## ej42137

This thread is drifting farther and faster than a "Big Bang Theory" thread!


----------



## lpwcomp

jscopes said:


> Does it seem like 4 tuner and 500GB is enough for 3 TV's (with very little live TV being watched on one of them)?


How are you currently "feeding" 3 TVs with 2 TiVos and a total of 4 tuners?

Why sell the Premiere?


----------



## HerronScott

jscopes said:


> The best that they can do for a 6 tuner Pro is the $499 + $99 lifetime offer that tenured customers were getting earlier this year. Which makes me feel like I'm not getting anything extra for my inconvenience in this matter.


That's still a great deal even if they offered it to long term customers before given the cost of All-in pricing today and even given what Lifetime service pricing use to be. I took advantage of it since we're on Comcast and have 2 S3 OLED's which wouldn't be able to get MPEG4 when they finally get around to updating our small town.

Scott


----------



## jscopes

lpwcomp said:


> How are you currently "feeding" 3 TVs with 2 TiVos and a total of 4 tuners?
> 
> Why sell the Premiere?


3rd TV is not on tivo currently, I just added it for my daughter and just gave her a comcast DTA for now.

I would upgrade and sell off the premiere because i think i'd prefer to have all my content on one tivo.


----------



## yukit

I actually found out about the MPEG4 conversion from AVS Forums, came here to figure out what to do.

It is nice to know Tivo is working on an update for the TivoHD units. I happen to have both 652 & 658 with lifetime.


----------



## lew

yukit said:


> I actually found out about the MPEG4 conversion from AVS Forums, came here to figure out what to do.
> 
> It is nice to know Tivo is working on an update for the TivoHD units. I happen to have both 652 & 658 with lifetime.


We don't know if tivo is working on an update.


----------



## HerronScott

lew said:


> We don't know if tivo is working on an update.


Unless someone who is testing has maybe mentioned that it's working, we don't know for *sure*.  But Margret's post asking for testers in Comcast's areas where they are rolling out MPEG4 certainly seems to point in that direction.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=535049

Dave Zatz has posted that they are as well from his sources.

http://www.bloglovin.com/blogs/zatz-not-funny-2005499?post=4689862194&group=0&frame_type=a&context=&context_ids=&blog=2005499&frame=1&click=0&user=0&viewer=true

Scott


----------



## snerd

HerronScott said:


> Dave Zatz has posted that they are as well from his sources.
> 
> http://www.bloglovin.com/blogs/zatz-not-funny-2005499?post=4689862194&group=0&frame_type=a&context=&context_ids=&blog=2005499&frame=1&click=0&user=0&viewer=true
> t


Yup, he cites this TiVo page. Pretty good source! I might have to dust of my HD and replace some capacitors...


----------



## HerronScott

snerd said:


> Yup, he cites this TiVo page. Pretty good source! I might have to dust of my HD and replace some capacitors...


Cool, I think that makes it official then. 

"TiVo HD and TiVo HD XL: TiVo is working on a software update which will bring MPEG4 capability to TiVo HD DVRs. Customers can expect this update sometime in the first half of 2016.

TiVo Series3 HD: IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED! These DVRs will lose all HD cable channels."

Scott


----------



## snerd

HerronScott said:


> Cool, I think that makes it official then.


Yeah, well, maybe. TiVo pages aren't exactly renowned for their accuracy 

I'll believe it when it is released and users here are reporting success. Then the "fun" of seeing what kinds of new bugs have scrambled in to eat the old bugs. I love my TiVos the same way that I love my children -- despite their ever changing problems


----------



## lew

Maybe tivo is working on something. The tivo page linked by Zatz says tivo stream isn't compatible with mpeg4 programming and a fix is expected by mid 2015. Not sure why old information would be in a new release.

Tivo has all be "EOLd" the series 3 platform. Tivo didn't even keep a web page to allow series 3 customers the opportunity to schedule recordings via the web. The capability for remote scheduling is available, we can schedule recording from the guide via the old android app. Tivo didn't want to even take the time to have a web link for S3 customers so they can use the old web page.

There can't be that many S3 units being used. I'd think whatever resources it takes to to add mpeg4 could be better used working on the Bolt.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if mpeg4 is supported on S3 series units. It won't take much of an issue before tivo decides its not worth it.


----------



## HerronScott

snerd said:


> Yeah, well, maybe. TiVo pages aren't exactly renowned for their accuracy
> 
> I'll believe it when it is released and users here are reporting success. Then the "fun" of seeing what kinds of new bugs have scrambled in to eat the old bugs. I love my TiVos the same way that I love my children -- despite their ever changing problems


I'm pretty sure it's already working for beta testers. Only question would be if TiVo will really release it and if so when.

Scott


----------



## Wil

HerronScott said:


> I'm pretty sure it's already working for beta testers. Only question would be if TiVo will really release it and if so when.


I believe it is faintly possible based on my interpretation of some fragmentary information that the capability in some form (probably from the NZ/OZ work) was already there and shut off, and all that is happening now is that the code has been re-activated, tweaked, and needs to be tested for awhile under fire.

In some vague discussions I had with people about the potential bounty for an mpeg4 patch, it was going to happen anyway whether Tivo officially backed it or not.


----------



## yukit

Even if they can get MP4 working on TivoHD, this is an incentive for people like me with multiple Tivo devices to finally get rid of the clutter. I will likely to just get some Minis.

Both S3 & HDs must still be some value to OTA users, even if MPEG4 stuff is not decent.


----------



## borabora

I am little confused about models. Aren't Tivo HD boxes also Series3 boxes? I have two HD boxes -- originally 160GB each -- that are on FW 11.0mxxx, model 652-xxx and are listed as Series3 in the info page. Are these considered S3 or HD wrt this topic? Will they supposedly be upgraded or not?


----------



## HerronScott

borabora said:


> I am little confused about models. Aren't Tivo HD boxes also Series3 boxes? I have two HD boxes -- originally 160GB each -- that are on FW 11.0mxxx, model 652-xxx and are listed as Series3 in the info page. Are these considered S3 or HD wrt this topic? Will they supposedly be upgraded or not?


Those are considered HD models versus the original S3 OLED to distinguish the hardware differences. If you check the thread where Margret was asking for testers, she only asked for 652 and 658 models (HD and HD XL).

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=535049

Scott


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

borabora said:


> I am little confused about models. Aren't Tivo HD boxes also Series3 boxes? I have two HD boxes -- originally 160GB each -- that are on FW 11.0mxxx, model 652-xxx and are listed as Series3 in the info page. Are these considered S3 or HD wrt this topic? Will they supposedly be upgraded or not?


Yeah, they're all from the Series 3 generation. We label them as "S3" and "Tivo HD" for specificity because the THD boxes that came a year after the original S3 were engineered rather differently.

The fix is for the Tivo HD models, the ones without the amber OLED screen.


----------



## foamy909

I just checked this page again and now it states week of 1/17/16!

What is really annoying is that I called Tivo Support as my mother has an HD XL with Comcast in the Chicago market, and they pretty much denied the software update was in the works. I tried to tell him where he needed to go on the Tivo website and he would not listen.

I wanted to call to see what her options were (before seeing the updated page) and sales then offered a new Roamio Pro w/lifetime for $600. I think it is the loyalty deal they are offering.

I also tried to cancel a grandfathered $6.95 per month for a multi-unit-discount Series 3 that has been dead for a few months and they offered to ship me a new Premiere for $50, which I could then transfer that billing to.  They suspended the service for now, but I could go back, get that, and give that to my Mom. It's not lifetime, but it still is a good deal...


----------



## HerronScott

foamy909 said:


> I just checked this page again and now it states week of 1/17/16!..


That's good information!

TiVo HD and TiVo HD XL: TiVo has implemented a software update which will bring MPEG-4 capability to TiVo HD DVRs. Active HD/HDXL customers can expect this update sometime during the week of 1/17/16

Scott


----------



## docfruitbat

lew said:


> Maybe tivo is working on something. The tivo page linked by Zatz says tivo stream isn't compatible with mpeg4 programming and a fix is expected by mid 2015. Not sure why old information would be in a new release.
> 
> Tivo has all be "EOLd" the series 3 platform. Tivo didn't even keep a web page to allow series 3 customers the opportunity to schedule recordings via the web. The capability for remote scheduling is available, we can schedule recording from the guide via the old android app. Tivo didn't want to even take the time to have a web link for S3 customers so they can use the old web page.
> 
> There can't be that many S3 units being used. I'd think whatever resources it takes to to add mpeg4 could be better used working on the Bolt.
> 
> I'll be pleasantly surprised if mpeg4 is supported on S3 series units. It won't take much of an issue before tivo decides its not worth it.


Timing couldn't have been worse as far as I'm concerned. My S3 died over Christmas and I forked out for a 1TB drive and a new PSU. Kinda wished I'd procrastinated a little longer!  Oh well!
But, at least I have some time before the cutover, so I guess I'll go window shopping for a Roamio or maybe a Bolt! Wee!!


----------



## cwerdna

foamy909 said:


> I just checked this page again and now it states week of 1/17/16!


I only stumbled across the above date today, as I was about to call TiVo to see what my upgrade options are since I have a Tivo HD. Thank you TiVo!

Per http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/XfinityTV-and-Equipment/HD-Enhanced-Program/m-p/2651615#M138238 my area is slated to go MPEG-4 sometime between Feb 2016 and April 2016.

Their channel 1995 didn't work before and still doesn't work for me (in a different way now). I guess it's all moot for me now.


----------



## jgantert

So will this update also work with Verizon FiOS? Or only COMCAST?


----------



## wmcbrine

jgantert said:


> So will this update also work with Verizon FiOS? Or only COMCAST?


Well, the Series 4+ work with Fios' H.264 channels. I don't think there's any difference in how the providers do them. So, I'd expect it to work with Fios, yes. (I think TiVo would have to go out of their way to make it _not_ work.)

Fios never really went through (so far) with their H.264 conversion plans, so there only a dozen or so H.264 channels, while I think Comcast is about to undergo a more comprehensive transition.


----------



## shwru980r

Will this update get pushed to Tivo HD's that don't have service but are connected to the internet?


----------



## ryguyMN

shwru980r said:


> Will this update get pushed to Tivo HD's that don't have service but are connected to the internet?


Based on the wording on Tivo's page, you'll need to have service.

"Active HD/HDXL customers can expect this update sometime during the week of 1/17/16."


----------



## HerronScott

Looks like the update is rolling out (11.0n.B1-01-2-652)!

Scott


----------



## cwerdna

HerronScott said:


> Looks like the update is rolling out (11.0n.B1-01-2-652)!


Mine's at 11.0m-01-2-652, but it's pending restart, so I guess I'll be upgraded real soon.


----------



## HerronScott

cwerdna said:


> Mine's at 11.0m-01-2-652, but it's pending restart, so I guess I'll be upgraded real soon.


I'd go ahead and restart if you don't have any recordings going today rather than wait for the scheduled reboot.

Scott


----------



## Pokemon_Dad

HerronScott said:


> Looks like the update is rolling out (11.0n.B1-01-2-652)!
> 
> Scott


I've got it here! Cupertino, CA. Know of any way to test that it's working?


----------



## wmcbrine

Pokemon_Dad said:


> I've got it here! Cupertino, CA. Know of any way to test that it's working?


Ahem: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10772681#post10772681

Other than that, you're going to need an MPEG-4 channel.


----------



## AgbotHD

I can confirm that 11.0n-B1-01-2-658 works with MPEG-4 channels. TiVO HD XL was unable to show some HD channels after Comcast update, showed Pending Restart, after restart it's running 11.0n-B1-01-2-658 and all channels are back.

Even the TiVo support guy on the phone yesterday evening didn't know if it would work and was pretty anxious to hear the results. All looks good though!


----------



## lodcomm

Does the software update give us back youtube & amazon on these series 3's?


----------



## shwru980r

lodcomm said:


> Does the software update give us back youtube & amazon on these series 3's?


No.


----------



## tsair

I called Tivo today to find out what upgrade offers they had for Series3 lifetime owners, and they basically told me the options were:

1. Get a refurbished Premiere and transfer lifetime to it for $275
2. Get a refurbished 500GB Roamio and new lifetime on it for $375
3. Get a new 500GB Bolt and new lifetime on it for $299+$399 = $700

I went with option 2 and will try to sell my 1TB S3 on eBay for a little bit of money.


----------



## Chico

Yikes, I just stumbled onto this info but I'm in Seattle so it looks like I'm OK right now, I just replaced the PS on my Series 3 (648) a few months ago. I looked at my history and it's been 9 years on this TiVo, not bad! I need a new TV as well (Sony Bravia 2005) so I better crack out the Top Ramen. 

I looked for but could not find when this rollout will hit other markets. I see it came to Portland already, but we usually lag behind them in Comcast rollouts. Any links or info on this?


----------



## HerronScott

Chico said:


> Yikes, I just stumbled onto this info but I'm in Seattle so it looks like I'm OK right now, I just replaced the PS on my Series 3 (648) a few months ago. I looked at my history and it's been 9 years on this TiVo, not bad! I need a new TV as well (Sony Bravia 2005) so I better crack out the Top Ramen.
> 
> I looked for but could not find when this rollout will hit other markets. I see it came to Portland already, but we usually lag behind them in Comcast rollouts. Any links or info on this?


Comcast doesn't seem to be publishing a schedule unfortunately. TiVo's list on their support page seems to be the best place to look at what's started the transition.

https://support.tivo.com/SupportPortalArticleViewPage?artURL=/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets

Scott


----------



## murgatroyd

My area has gotten the letter -- we're supposed to 'upgrade' before 2/26/2026. 

I already have the new software, so I'm all set, except I need to train myself to send recordings to the Roamio before transferring them with kmttg.


----------



## duh FooL

tsair said:


> I called Tivo today to find out what upgrade offers they had for Series3 lifetime owners, and they basically told me the options were:
> 
> 1. Get a refurbished Premiere and transfer lifetime to it for $275
> 2. Get a refurbished 500GB Roamio and new lifetime on it for $375
> 3. Get a new 500GB Bolt and new lifetime on it for $299+$399 = $700
> 
> I went with option 2 and will try to sell my 1TB S3 on eBay for a little bit of money.


I called Tivo and got the same offers listed above.
I inquired if any of the other roamio models were available and they offered the 3TB Roamio for $699 with the lifetime activation as well.
If you factor in the build-in streaming and the 2.5GB upgrade, the extra 300 might be worth it (assuming you don't want to upgrade your own HD).
Plus, there's no need for the extra streaming box.

Also, my series3 still keeps it's lifetime.

If only Tivo would give us the option to transfer the season/one pass information, the upgrade would be painless.


----------



## waynomo

duh FooL said:


> If only Tivo would give us the option to transfer the season/one pass information, the upgrade would be painless.


You can transfer these via TiVo.com.

You can also use kmttg.


----------



## HerronScott

waynomo said:


> You can transfer these via TiVo.com.
> 
> You can also use kmttg.


I used kmttg to transfer the season passes from 2 S3 OLEDs to our Roamio Pro last November. Worked great.

Scott


----------



## duh FooL

waynomo said:


> You can transfer these via TiVo.com.
> 
> You can also use kmttg.





HerronScott said:


> I used kmttg to transfer the season passes from 2 S3 OLEDs to our Roamio Pro last November. Worked great.
> 
> Scott


Haha... if only I had checked for a response before I manually recreated all of them.
At least I was able to prune my list.


----------



## squiredogs

Aw man! I have been a TiVo lifetimer since 1999. I have an S3. My house was damaged in Sandy, and I moved to a rental in September. The rental has an Xfinity X1 and an account included in my rent, so I put my comcast account on "snowbird" or winter mode - I pay a small amount to keep my account active, and then I was going to reactivate to full when I move back in, hopefully in May. I just stumbled onto this after reading about the possible sale of TiVo in the news. 

Having not used my S3 in months, I wasn't aware of the box becoming obsolete soon. What can I do at this point? Anything? And should I even bother? I HATE the X1, but I'd hate to buy a new TiVo and have it unsupported (I also equally hate a monthly fee, so i've always done Lifetime.)

Sorry, lots of hate... I was going to roll with the S3 for a year or two and then look at the Bolt Pro, which I assume will never happen now. But If I could get to "break even" on my cost, I'd still like a TiVo somehow.

What's my move?


----------



## lpwcomp

squiredogs said:


> Aw man! I have been a TiVo lifetimer since 1999. I have an S3. My house was damaged in Sandy, and I moved to a rental in September. The rental has an Xfinity X1 and an account included in my rent, so I put my comcast account on "snowbird" or winter mode - I pay a small amount to keep my account active, and then I was going to reactivate to full when I move back in, hopefully in May. I just stumbled onto this after reading about the possible sale of TiVo in the news.
> 
> Having not used my S3 in months, I wasn't aware of the box becoming obsolete soon. What can I do at this point? Anything? And should I even bother? I HATE the X1, but I'd hate to buy a new TiVo and have it unsupported (I also equally hate a monthly fee, so i've always done Lifetime.)
> 
> Sorry, lots of hate... I was going to roll with the S3 for a year or two and then look at the Bolt Pro, which I assume will never happen now. But If I could get to "break even" on my cost, I'd still like a TiVo somehow.
> 
> What's my move?


Buy a used Premiere w/lifetime.

BTW, your S3 will still work for SD channels and the HD channels that remain MPEG2 like locals and ESPN.


----------



## unitron

And of course that S3 will still be good for OTA channels if you've got enough antenna for your situation.


----------



## squiredogs

lpwcomp said:


> Buy a used Premiere w/lifetime.
> 
> BTW, your S3 will still work for SD channels and the HD channels that remain MPEG2 like locals and ESPN.


I looked around, and we're not on the list to get "upgraded" by comcast yet. Odd, since I'm in South Jersey, within 50 miles of comcast headquarters... Anyway, I guess that buys me a little time.

Would it be better to wait for the letter from comcast, or just take care of it now? Like, does Tivo give a better upgrade offer if you got informed by comcast, rather than preemptively dealing with the switch?

If my S3 can still pull in HD locals and tune ESPN, I might keep it for the den/playroom or something. One less comcast hdtv tuner that way.


----------



## lpwcomp

squiredogs said:


> I looked around, and we're not on the list to get "upgraded" by comcast yet. Odd, since I'm in South Jersey, within 50 miles of comcast headquarters... Anyway, I guess that buys me a little time.
> 
> Would it be better to wait for the letter from comcast, or just take care of it now? Like, does Tivo give a better upgrade offer if you got informed by comcast, rather than preemptively dealing with the switch?
> 
> If my S3 can still pull in HD locals and tune ESPN, I might keep it for the den/playroom or something. One less comcast hdtv tuner that way.


I don't know if they have any current upgrade deals. You'd have to call TiVo to find out.


----------



## meBigGuy

On 1/13 I noticed my Series 3 had stopped working on some Xfinity channels. Took a while, but I finally figured out it was mpeg4 migration. 

I got the SW upgrade and all seemed OK until I started experiencing freezing on some mpeg4 channels. Not every mpeg4 channel would experience the freeze. For example SYFI played just fine, but previously recorded or live FXXPHD would freeze.

I determined that rebooting would fix the problem. (it's the only thing that would fix it)

I determined I could make it freeze by recording 2 mpeg4 channels while playing a stored mpeg4 video. Then, a reboot would fix it. Not just any mpeg4 channel though. Only certain ones had whatever it took to cause the freeze. Some channels must encode mpeg4 with different compression or ref frames, or something. For example FXXPHD, NGWIHD. DXDHDP, FXPHD, DISNHDP, and a handfull of others.

Wondering if anyone else has been experiencing this? TIVO probably won't be fixing it unless they get enough calls.

I'll have to say that it hasn't frozen in a few weeks, but that may be because currently there are no shows being recorded on the triggering channels (seasons ended).


----------



## Sevenfeet

And now it all makes sense. For months my elderly Tivo Series 3 OLED was not receiving a lot of the HD digital channels with the exception of the local channels and strangely ESPN. Now I understand why. The MPEG-4 transition happened under my very nose and someone I never found out about it. No notice from Comcast (at least that I remember receiving) and when I called into customer service to complain about my cablecard service no longer working on this machine, nobody had a clue (not surprising for Comcast tech support).

We have two TVs in our house and the other one has a Tivo HD which still retained programming after the change. That Tivo replaced a Series 3 that died about a year ago and I received the Tivo HD from a friend who had upgraded to Roamio + Minis a while ago. The Tivo Series 3 hadn't been a high priority issue since the Tivo it's attached to is failing and needs to be replaced. it was a top of the line Mitsubishi RPTV 14 years ago but I haven't had budget to replace it yet (hopefully later this year).

I had recently pulled the Series 3 from active duty and replaced it with another Tivo HD that I got from another friend who upgraded to Bolt. But I discovered in the last few days that this Tivo has a bad Ethernet port and had been sporadically flooding my network (and specifically my wireless router) with bad packet information...almost like a DDOS attack. So I pulled the Tivo HD today. Ironically I had also added a Comcast X1 box to the same TV recently upon a change of service where Comcast basically threw up in the X1 box without a monthly charge. 

The interface is a lot different and I miss some of the DVR control that Tivo offers. The big advantage is being able to record 6 shows at once, something the Roamios can do but the Bolt cannot. Recording 6 shows might be overkill but it's the only way to record all of the major late night comedy talk shows/programs. So I was waiting for a version of the Bolt with 6 tuners before upgrading and augment it with Minis...but now with the rumored merger of Tivo, I'm wondering if we're ever going to see this product.

I'll call Tivo tomorrow and consider my options. Both old Series 3s were lifetime and I'm still in possession of both. The Tivo HD that is still working is also lifetime.


----------



## HerronScott

Sevenfeet said:


> I'll call Tivo tomorrow and consider my options. Both old Series 3s were lifetime and I'm still in possession of both. The Tivo HD that is still working is also lifetime.


It's a shame you didn't take advantage of the Roamio Pro deal for long time TiVo users ($600 which included lifetime). They raised the price $100 a little while ago and they might have even discontinued the deal now but let us know what you find out. I've been very happy with ours which we've had since last November (replaced 2 S3 OLEDs).

I think they did have a different offer for S3 owners impacted by the MPEG4 transition which was a good deal price-wise but I think it was only for the Roamio Basic (4 tuners).

Scott


----------



## blm

Just an FYI, I got the letter from Comcast about the MPEG-4 transition yesterday (5/28/16) and I'm in the Seattle area. It says the transition will occur 6/27/16.


----------



## tluxon

blm said:


> Just an FYI, I got the letter from Comcast about the MPEG-4 transition yesterday (5/28/16) and I'm in the Seattle area. It says the transition will occur 6/27/16.


Ditto. Looks like the Lifetime 2TB TivoHD's have just about had their run.

Comcast says without upgrading I may lose "many" HD channels. I wonder if that means "not all" and if so, which ones will remain on MPEG-2?


----------



## westside_guy

tluxon said:


> Ditto. Looks like the Lifetime 2TB TivoHD's have just about had their run.


Not necessarily. I found some info from an earlier round of Comcast transitions that states Tivo HDs with TSNs starting with 652 or 658 can handle the "new" mpeg-4 format from Comcast.

Which would make sense, at least on at some level, since you can stream mpeg4 to these Tivos without transcoding it.

My TSN starts with 652, so I'm going to "let it ride" and see what happens in June/July.  I'd like to avoid buying another Tivo, if I can help it - I've loved my Tivos, but I think we're just about at the end of the era where they're useful.

*Ah, here it is:* https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets


----------



## CraigK

I also got the letter from Comcast for the Seattle area.

I will have to check and see if our TiVo HDs have the 11.0n software update which added MPEG 4 support. The last time I looked they were still on 11.0m.


----------



## HerronScott

CraigK said:


> I also got the letter from Comcast for the Seattle area.
> 
> I will have to check and see if our TiVo HDs have the 11.0n software update which added MPEG 4 support. The last time I looked they were still on 11.0m.


Call TiVo support if your HD is still on 11.0m and ask them to add your TSN to the list to get 11.0n as Comcast is moving to MPEG4 in your area.

We got 11.0n on our 1 HD even though Comcast hasn't announced any timeframe for moving to MPEG4 here.

Scott


----------



## CraigK

HerronScott said:


> Call TiVo support if your HD is still on 11.0m and ask them to add your TSN to the list to get 11.0n as Comcast is moving to MPEG4 in your area.
> 
> We got 11.0n on our 1 HD even though Comcast hasn't announced any timeframe for moving to MPEG4 here.
> 
> Scott


Thanks. It looks like I will have to call them because when I checked today they are still both on 11.0m.


----------



## westside_guy

CraigK said:


> I will have to check and see if our TiVo HDs have the 11.0n software update which added MPEG 4 support. The last time I looked they were still on 11.0m.


Does your TSN start with 652 or 658?


----------



## tluxon

westside_guy said:


> Not necessarily. I found some info from an earlier round of Comcast transitions that states Tivo HDs with TSNs starting with 652 or 658 can handle the "new" mpeg-4 format from Comcast.
> 
> Which would make sense, at least on at some level, since you can stream mpeg4 to these Tivos without transcoding it.
> 
> My TSN starts with 652, so I'm going to "let it ride" and see what happens in June/July.  I'd like to avoid buying another Tivo, if I can help it - I've loved my Tivos, but I think we're just about at the end of the era where they're useful.
> 
> *Ah, here it is:* https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets


Thanks. I also just got an email from TiVo Support confirming that my units are mpeg-4 compatible. Whew!


----------



## typ993

I'm near Seattle and got the letter, saying the transition would take place by/on June 27th. We just get the Limited Basic channel package (using Netflix/Prime on a Roku box for everything else, since the S3 Netflix ability degraded). 

Can anyone in areas already transitioned by Comcast confirm that local channels remain in MPEG2 or do they transcode those as well?


----------



## CraigK

westside_guy said:


> Does your TSN start with 652 or 658?


They are both 652.


----------



## lpwcomp

typ993 said:


> I'm near Seattle and got the letter, saying the transition would take place by/on June 27th. We just get the Limited Basic channel package (using Netflix/Prime on a Roku box for everything else, since the S3 Netflix ability degraded).
> 
> Can anyone in areas already transitioned by Comcast confirm that local channels remain in MPEG2 or do they transcode those as well?


Locals are still MPEG2.


----------



## typ993

lpwcomp said:


> Locals are still MPEG2.


It will be interesting to see what limited basic channels we retain.

Coincidentally, got an email from Tivo today stating that "Changes to your XFINITY TV service will not impact your TiVo device." We have a Series 3 HD (648) lifetime and a Tivo Premiere month-to-month, so I guess their review didn't pick up on the Series 3.


----------



## Wil

lpwcomp said:


> Locals are still MPEG2.


Universally, you think? I'm not down there any more, but earlier this Spring in the Sarasota Florida area I thought I saw mpeg4 on a couple of locals from (then) Verizon.


----------



## arw01

dreaded letter has arrived to the Spokane area.

Both of my HD are 652 beginning, how sure are we they can handle the MPG4 encoding?

Will check their firmware tonight to see what version they are on.


----------



## Wil

arw01 said:


> how sure are we they [HDs] can handle the MPG4 encoding?


I look at a number of different areas and talk with hobbyists doing experiments. There have been no reported failures of HD models with 11.0n handling mpeg4 channels.


----------



## lpwcomp

Wil said:


> Universally, you think? I'm not down there any more, but earlier this Spring in the Sarasota Florida area I thought I saw mpeg4 on a couple of locals from (then) Verizon.


No idea, especially since that is/was Verizon. All I know for sure is what the situation is here.


----------



## westside_guy

So today I got an email from TiVo - not sure if it's the same one mentioned by typ993. But, in any case, it states:

_"You may have received a letter from Comcast informing you that they were upgrading the way they deliver HD channels on their XFINITY TV service, and some digital converters (cable boxes) will need to be upgraded to models that support the new HD platform. This is scheduled to occur in late June.

Please note that this will not impact your TiVo BOLT, TiVo Roamio, TiVo® Premiere or TiVo HD DVR. *You will continue to get all your HD channels - no action is necessary.*

If you have any questions about any of your TiVo devices, please call us at 1-877-367-8486."_


----------



## javabird

westside_guy said:


> So today I got an email from TiVo - not sure if it's the same one mentioned by typ993. But, in any case, it states:
> 
> _"You may have received a letter from Comcast informing you that they were upgrading the way they deliver HD channels on their XFINITY TV service, and some digital converters (cable boxes) will need to be upgraded to models that support the new HD platform. This is scheduled to occur in late June.
> 
> Please note that this will not impact your TiVo BOLT, TiVo Roamio, TiVo® Premiere or TiVo HD DVR. *You will continue to get all your HD channels - no action is necessary.*
> 
> If you have any questions about any of your TiVo devices, please call us at 1-877-367-8486."_


I got the same email. Good to know.


----------



## lpwcomp

Be aware that "TiVo HD DVR" does _*not*_ include the original Series 3 High Definition DVR. model TCD648250.


----------



## typ993

westside_guy said:


> So today I got an email from TiVo - not sure if it's the same one mentioned by typ993. But, in any case, it states:
> 
> _"You may have received a letter from Comcast informing you that they were upgrading the way they deliver HD channels on their XFINITY TV service, and some digital converters (cable boxes) will need to be upgraded to models that support the new HD platform. This is scheduled to occur in late June.
> 
> Please note that this will not impact your TiVo BOLT, TiVo Roamio, TiVo® Premiere or TiVo HD DVR. *You will continue to get all your HD channels - no action is necessary.*
> 
> If you have any questions about any of your TiVo devices, please call us at 1-877-367-8486."_


Yeah, same email, but you would think Tivo is aware that I have a 648 Series 3. Of course our Premiere isn't going to have a problem.

I'm just going to wing it and see how many channels we lose (if any) in Limited Basic. If most of those are still MPEG2, I'm probably OK.


----------



## nrnoble

I am in the seattle area and online it states to go to channel 1995 for more info. On the channel I get the rotating balls that symbolize "loading" and nothing more happens.

I have lifetime subscription on two S3s. Called Tivo and the cheapest option with lifetime is 4 turner premiere (75 hours) for $350. Which appears no different than if I just go to the Tivo website and order a refurbished tivo. In otherwords they're not offering me any discount as a 17 year owner of Tivo (1999). With the Comcast upgrade, there is no incentive being offered to me to stay with Tivo.

I know its not Tivo fault for the decisions made comcast, and I suppose there shouldn't be expectations that Tivo offer me a slightly better deal. Yet, because their not making any effort to keep me as long time customer with a tempting better deal, I also probably will consider what comcast has to offer me to switch to comcast\xfinity hardware.

Are there any threads on how to repurpose a S3 into a useful device such as media server (ie plex), etc. Ideally keeping tivo remote to control the new functionality.


----------



## shwru980r

nrnoble said:


> I am in the seattle area and online it states to go to channel 1995 for more info. On the channel I get the rotating balls that symbolize "loading" and nothing more happens.
> 
> I have lifetime subscription on two S3s. Called Tivo and the cheapest option with lifetime is 4 turner premiere (75 hours) for $350. Which appears no different than if I just go to the Tivo website and order a refurbished tivo. In otherwords they're not offering me any discount as a 17 year owner of Tivo (1999). With the Comcast upgrade, there is no incentive being offered to me to stay with Tivo.
> 
> I know its not Tivo fault for the decisions made comcast, and I suppose there shouldn't be expectations that Tivo offer me a slightly better deal. Yet, because their not making any effort to keep me as long time customer with a tempting better deal, I also probably will consider what comcast has to offer me to switch to comcast\xfinity hardware.
> 
> Are there any threads on how to repurpose a S3 into a useful device such as media server (ie plex), etc. Ideally keeping tivo remote to control the new functionality.


Board wisdom says that the comcast dvr is significantly inferior to Tivo. If you call Tivo, they have a new software revision that supports Mpeg-4 for the 652 and 658 model S3's and they will push it to your Tvio.


----------



## nrnoble

shwru980r said:


> Board wisdom says that the comcast dvr is significantly inferior to Tivo. If you call Tivo, they have a new software revision that supports Mpeg-4 for the 652 and 658 model S3's and they will push it to your Tvio.


My two S3s are the original S3 model, and won't accept the upgrade. When I called Tivo, they verified that the models could not be upgraded.

Yes, it is my understanding comcast DVRs are not as good as TiVos. Since TiVo is not currently offering me a deal that is tempting, I might just try a comcast DVR to see if its good enough for what I need. If I don't like it, then I can always go back to TiVo. IMHO, Tivo should turn this to their advantage, and offer customers like me a deal worth considering NOW, rather than just offer me the same refurbished deal anyone anyone can buy from the website at anytime, today, next week, 3-4 months from now, etc. After trying a comcast dvr, there is a reasonable chance I will switch back to TiVo, but its possible I won't.


----------



## lpwcomp

nrnoble said:


> My two S3s are the original S3 model, and won't accept the upgrade. When I called Tivo, they verified that the models could not be upgraded.
> 
> Yes, it is my understanding comcast DVRs are not as good as TiVos. Since TiVo is not currently offering me a deal that is tempting, I might just try a comcast DVR to see if its good enough for what I need. If I don't like it, then I can always go back to TiVo. IMHO, Tivo should turn this to their advantage, and offer customers like me a deal worth considering NOW, rather than just offer me the same refurbished deal anyone anyone can buy from the website at anytime, today, next week, 3-4 months from now, etc. After trying a comcast dvr, there is a reasonable chance I will switch back to TiVo, but its possible I won't.


One factor you should add to the equation: If you get a Comcast HD DVR, they will add an "HD Technology" fee to your account.


----------



## javabird

lpwcomp said:


> One factor you should add to the equation: If you get a Comcast HD DVR, they will add an "HD Technology" fee to your account.


Don't they also charge around $20/month for the HD DVR service? I was trying to help my mom change her service and she opted against the DVR because the monthly fee was so high.


----------



## HerronScott

nrnoble said:


> .
> I have lifetime subscription on two S3s. Called Tivo and the cheapest option with lifetime is 4 turner premiere (75 hours) for $350. Which appears no different than if I just go to the Tivo website and order a refurbished tivo. In otherwords they're not offering me any discount as a 17 year owner of Tivo (1999). With the Comcast upgrade, there is no incentive being offered to me to stay with Tivo.
> 
> I know its not Tivo fault for the decisions made comcast, and I suppose there shouldn't be expectations that Tivo offer me a slightly better deal. Yet, because their not making any effort to keep me as long time customer with a tempting better deal, I also probably will consider what comcast has to offer me to switch to comcast\xfinity hardware.
> 
> .


What were all the offers they gave you and did they include All-in service? All-in/lifetime service is currently $549.99 so that's usually where they are giving you the discount.

Scott


----------



## Chico

HerronScott said:


> What were all the offers they gave you and did they include All-in service? All-in/lifetime service is currently $549.99 so that's usually where they are giving you the discount.
> 
> Scott


I got a refurbished Romio for $25 with all-in for $350, total= 375+ tax. It's on the way now. I would have rather gone for a pro or bolt but they were not offering a discount and the total price was too high. Bolt offer was $175 + $549

My other question, maybe it was already answered somewhere...what was the basic hardware difference between the series 3 and Hd that did not allow TiVo to upgrade the series 3 to mpeg-4? A different encoding chip?


----------



## shwru980r

Chico said:


> I got a refurbished Romio for $25 with all-in for $350, total= 375+ tax. It's on the way now. I would have rather gone for a pro or bolt but they were not offering a discount and the total price was too high. Bolt offer was $175 + $549
> 
> My other question, maybe it was already answered somewhere...what was the basic hardware difference between the series 3 and Hd that did not allow TiVo to upgrade the series 3 to mpeg-4? A different encoding chip?


My understanding was that Tivo had manufactured a similar tivo hd in australia that had mpeg-4 support, so they could merge the australian code with the US code and create a new version for US Tivo HDs. The OLED Tivo HD has different software.


----------



## HerronScott

Chico said:


> I got a refurbished Romio for $25 with all-in for $350, total= 375+ tax. It's on the way now. I would have rather gone for a pro or bolt but they were not offering a discount and the total price was too high. Bolt offer was $175 + $549
> 
> My other question, maybe it was already answered somewhere...what was the basic hardware difference between the series 3 and Hd that did not allow TiVo to upgrade the series 3 to mpeg-4? A different encoding chip?


Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. 

I took advantage of the loyalty deal last October due to the MPEG4 change and the increase in All-in pricing and got the Roamio Pro (3TB drive and 6 tuners) to replace our 2 S3 OLED TiVos. They also threw in a free Slide Remote Pro.

And yes the S3 OLED had a different chipset compared to the HD. The S3 OLED chipset does support MPEG4 but no code had been written to support it.

*S3 OLED
*
CPU
Broadcom BCM7038 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2 decoder.

Decoder
Broadcom BCM7411 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 and VC-1/WMV9 decoder.

*HD
*
CPU/Decoder
Broadcom BCM7401 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1/WMV9 decoder.

Scott


----------



## nrnoble

HerronScott said:


> What were all the offers they gave you and did they include All-in service? All-in/lifetime service is currently $549.99 so that's usually where they are giving you the discount.
> 
> Scott


Thanks.... I shall call Tivo back and check the pricing again.


----------



## Chico

HerronScott said:


> Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
> 
> I took advantage of the loyalty deal last October due to the MPEG4 change and the increase in All-in pricing and got the Roamio Pro (3TB drive and 6 tuners) to replace our 2 S3 OLED TiVos. They also threw in a free Slide Remote Pro.
> 
> And yes the S3 OLED had a different chipset compared to the HD. The S3 OLED chipset does support MPEG4 but no code had been written to support it.
> 
> *S3 OLED
> *
> CPU
> Broadcom BCM7038 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2 decoder.
> 
> Decoder
> Broadcom BCM7411 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 and VC-1/WMV9 decoder.
> 
> *HD
> *
> CPU/Decoder
> Broadcom BCM7401 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1/WMV9 decoder.
> 
> Scott


Thanks for that info and I'm a bit jealous of your setup. I'll miss the OLED. It was almost 10 years so I can't complain too much, I did have to replace the power supply last year. At least the drive upgrade is easier.


----------



## nrnoble

HerronScott said:


> The S3 OLED chipset does support MPEG4 but no code had been written to support it.


Likely a revenue stream issue. Cost vs profit.... Been in such meetings where million dollar development projects are discussed. They could consider it a "purchased" software upgrade, but then customers tend to think they are paying for bug fixes, even if its not the case. And, then there's often to be pressure from within not to develop such upgrades because it reduces sale of new units. Likely that customers would rather spend $100 to purchase a MPEG4 upgrade to their existing units than buy a more expensive new model.


----------



## HerronScott

nrnoble said:


> Thanks.... I shall call Tivo back and check the pricing again.


Looks like Chico got a refurbished Roamio Basic with All-in/lifetime for $375 so I would hope you would get the same offer.

Scott


----------



## nrnoble

According the Comcast letter sent to me, today was day when everything was to go dark on my S3. When I checked, indeed the HD channels on both turners were blank. However, when I moved to another channel, it took 2-3 seconds, but the HD channel appeared. I continued to check the channels, and all the channels were fine. 

Maybe they attempted to switch over earlier today, and had technical problems, so they rolled everything back to MPEG3.


----------



## HerronScott

nrnoble said:


> According the Comcast letter sent to me, today was day when everything was to go dark on my S3. When I checked, indeed the HD channels on both turners were blank. However, when I moved to another channel, it took 2-3 seconds, but the HD channel appeared. I continued to check the channels, and all the channels were fine.
> 
> Maybe they attempted to switch over earlier today, and had technical problems, so they rolled everything back to MPEG3.


Also remember that broadcast HD channels are supposed to be staying MPEG2 so it's not all HD channels that you would lose access to with an original S3 OLED, but if you can still get to the rest of the cable HD channels then it sounds like they missed their target date. 

Scott


----------



## lpwcomp

nrnoble said:


> According the Comcast letter sent to me, today was day when everything was to go dark on my S3. When I checked, indeed the HD channels on both turners were blank. However, when I moved to another channel, it took 2-3 seconds, but the HD channel appeared. I continued to check the channels, and all the channels were fine.
> 
> Maybe they attempted to switch over earlier today, and had technical problems, so they rolled everything back to MPEG3.


Also remember that they don't usually transition all of the channels at once.


----------



## casstk

I'd like to post a question about Comcast MPEG4's impact on my old Series 1 TIVO. Is there a forum for older equipment in the USA?


----------



## lpwcomp

casstk said:


> I'd like to post a question about Comcast MPEG4's impact on my old Series 1 TIVO. Is there a forum for older equipment in the USA?


Since your Series 1 needs a cable box, it has zero impact.


----------



## casstk

Thank you. By this logic, my S2 TIVO (the one without a card) which also uses their basic channels digital cable box should work. :up:


----------



## lpwcomp

casstk said:


> Thank you. By this logic, my S2 TIVO (the one without a card) which also uses their basic channels digital cable box should work. :up:


That ia correct, especially since they are only converting non-local _*HD*_ channels.


----------



## nrnoble

lpwcomp said:


> Also remember that they don't usually transition all of the channels at once.


I was wondering exactly that. Since the cut off date, nothing for me has changed. I continue to receive all channels.

Speculating: Unless they are short on bandwidth, they'll leave current MPEG3 feeds as MPEG3 rather than re-encode to MPEG4. They can now add MPEG4 channels directly in the lineup, and switch over existing channels when the source switches to MPEG4.


----------



## lpwcomp

nrnoble said:


> I was wondering exactly that. Since the cut off date, nothing for me has changed. I continue to receive all channels.
> 
> Speculating: Unless they are short on bandwidth, they'll leave current MPEG3 feeds as MPEG3 rather than re-encode to MPEG4. They can now add MPEG4 channels directly in the lineup, and switch over existing channels when the source switches to MPEG4.


They _*are*_ short on bandwidth. Eventually, most of the non-local HD channels will be converted to H.264 (MPEG4). At least, that's what has happened everywhere else Comcast has done this.

What models are your two S3 TiVos?


----------



## nrnoble

lpwcomp said:


> They _*are*_ short on bandwidth. Eventually, most of the non-local HD channels will be converted to H.264 (MPEG4). At least, that's what has happened everywhere else Comcast has done this.
> 
> What models are your two S3 TiVos?


They have the LED display on the front (TCD648250B) Tivo-S3 Image


----------



## lpwcomp

nrnoble said:


> They have the LED display on the front (TCD648250B) Tivo-S3 Image


Ah. Well, you'll still be able to use them for locals and and a few other HD channels and of course for SD channels. Have to use the Premiere for everything else.


----------



## nrnoble

lpwcomp said:


> Ah. Well, you'll still be able to use them for locals and and a few other HD channels and of course for SD channels. Have to use the Premiere for everything else.


At least for the moment I can continue to use it and deal with the lose of channels when the time comes.

Are there any usefully reuse of the device once the channels go dark?

It would be a good media server. Love to install PLEX server on it if possible.

Thanks


----------



## lpwcomp

nrnoble said:


> At least for the moment I can continue to use it and deal with the lose of channels when the time comes.
> 
> Are there any usefully reuse of the device once the channels go dark?
> 
> It would be a good media server. Love to install PLEX server on it if possible.
> 
> Thanks


I don't know if PLEX will work or not. Streambaby should work and pyTivo will definitely work.

And as I said, they will still work for local channels, SD channels, or you could go OTA.


----------



## bilj65

HerronScott said:


> Looks like Chico got a refurbished Roamio Basic with All-in/lifetime for $375 so I would hope you would get the same offer.
> 
> Scott


I got the same offer in SF Bay Area as Chico (Roamio $25 and Lifetime $350) and went for it. I'll upgrade it to 4TB with WD40EURX (for $190). That's a total of $565 for a Roamio (basic) with 4TB and lifetime service and 4 tuners. Certainly a step up from my S3 OLED with 2 TB and only 2 tuners.

Compare that to the best Bolt deal which would be 1 TB refurb for $225 + $550 lifetime = $775. I like that the Bolt has faster and more modern hardware, but functionally it's not much different than the Roamio and I am really not liking their decision to go with 2.5" HDD -it really limits your options on HDD upgrades.

I'm biding my time for the next TiVo model, the rumored "Pro". If I'm going to pay full price, I want something better then the current Bolt. I don't want to pay full price for a Bolt + lifetime and then deal with added complexity and cost of adding large external drive and then have buyer's remorse in a few months. I figure with the good price I got on the Roamio I can resell it on eBay and get most of my costs back and get something better with larger internal storage capabilities. 
If the "Pro" never materializes, I think I'll still be satisfied enough with the Roamio. If I really want streaming I can get a used external streamer for about $60 on eBay.


----------



## nrnoble

bilj65 said:


> If the "Pro" never materializes


I hope the TiVo line continues because I have been long time fan since I bought the first model in 1999. Its my understanding that TiVo was recently bought out, so a lot depends on what the new parent company wants to do with TiVo. If they bought TiVo for the software, and not the hardware, then it's likely we'll not see a new TiVo.

Others are going to know much more about what is really going on than my speculation.


----------



## sbourgeo

I just got the "Check your equipment" letter from Comcast and the "no action is necessary" email from TiVo for a 9/6/16 MPEG-4 cutover, but my TiVo HD is still running 11.0m. Do you still have to pm Margret to get it, or is the update being deployed automatically now?


----------



## HerronScott

sbourgeo said:


> I just got the "Check your equipment" letter from Comcast and the "no action is necessary" email from TiVo for a 9/6/16 MPEG-4 cutover, but my TiVo HD is still running 11.0m. Do you still have to pm Margret to get it, or is the update being deployed automatically now?


If you had an HD in a Comcast area, you should have already gotten 11.0n if it was online earlier this year. Our HD got it and who knows when our small town will make the MPEG4 transition.

You should be able to open a case with tech support to get it pushed to your HD if you mention your area is moving to MPEG4 and yours is still 11.0m.

Scott


----------



## tivoyahoo

Chico said:


> I got a refurbished Romio for $25 with all-in for $350, total= 375+ tax. It's on the way now. I would have rather gone for a pro or bolt but they were not offering a discount and the total price was too high. Bolt offer was $175 + $549





bilj65 said:


> I got the same offer in SF Bay Area as Chico (Roamio $25 and Lifetime $350) and went for it.





bilj65 said:


> If the "Pro" never materializes, I think I'll still be satisfied enough with the Roamio.


A reasonable upgrade offer on the surface with tivo claiming that with the upgrade you'll continue to receive all your hd channels. but here's what Tivo isn't fully disclosing regarding the Roamio series and what you you can read about all over this board and other places (keep reading for links) and has been documented as going on since at least latter June...

Also, below is a recap on the TivoHD and S3 and where they stand if you are heeding the "hold off on Roamio upgrade" and want to wait and see standing pat for the time being with the older hardware.

First, bilj65, and others - have you checked your channels with the Roamio? Try mpeg4 / h.264 channels 775, 820, and 823 for example. You won't like what you see if you look at the buffer play bar and/or try to record. *The roamio has confirmed problems on 6 of the 7 mpeg4 / h.264 channels in SF Bay Area at the moment - won't record / won't buffer. and more mpeg4 is expected on the announced Aug 2 transition date for SF per the recent comcast letters. And if you pair a mini to roamio, the mini will fail as well on the problem channels with no picture and will lock up freeze on an endless spinning blue circle requiring a power cycle reboot* that takes about 3 minutes to pull out of with reboot. but don't make the mistake of tuning to another problem channel again or even the same one again, or you'll be rebooting all over again.

So ironically roamio owners are turning to and reviving older models in order to downgrade to get older Premieres and THD's on their networks to be able to record the h.264 roamio problem channels - see the bay area thread:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10946733#post10946733



sbourgeo said:


> ...TiVo HD is still running 11.0m. Do you still have to pm Margret to get it, or is the update being deployed automatically now?


You'll also note in the bay area thread link above *there is an issue with tivo deploying the 11.0n update for TivoHD (652 & 658)* - multiple reports of forced connections not pulling the download from tivo and being stuck at 11.0m which is not mpeg4 compatible.

Additionally *11.0n is not problem free either with issues unresolved* - posted quote from:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10812041#post10812041



TiVoSupport_Sarah said:


> *TiVo Community,
> .... We have a Known Issue for TiVo HD's having an issue with the MPEG4 after SW Update.*


But back to Roamio series: *18 mpeg4 / h.264 channels are failing in Sacramento and on the Central Coast (Santa Maria) of CA* on comcast on Roamio where the mpeg4 deployment preceded SF Bay Area:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542127

and there is a nationwide thread as well detailing the similarly failing channels in other comcast cities: *Atlanta, Nashville, Chicago (19 failing channels and growing)*, and other cities in Illinois - Springfield, Peoria, Champaign. there is a link to that national thread in the thread above.

Other comcast markets / areas are believed to be affected as well per the tivo support article naming 16 markets across 10 states:
https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets

but waiting to hear reports from Roamio users on TCF in these comcast markets:

Arizona - Tucson
California - Fresno, Stockton, Modesto and surrounding Central Valley
Georgia - Augusta
Indiana - South Bend
Michigan - Detroit
Oregon - Portland
Utah - Salt Lake City
Washington - Seattle



nrnoble said:


> According the Comcast letter sent to me, today was day when everything was to go dark on my S3. When I checked, indeed the HD channels on both turners were blank. However, when I moved to another channel, it took 2-3 seconds, but the HD channel appeared. I continued to check the channels, and all the channels were fine.


There are numerous posts on TCF confirming that the providers are leaving the broadcast networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, CW, etc.) as mpeg2, not migrating them to mpeg4. If there are any cases where this is not true, please share and post. So *the S3 OLED 648 remains viable not just for ota, but for lots of mpeg 2 channels as well. So you won't experience all channels going dark. Not even all HD channels will go dark.*

Sacramento, for example, has migrated to mpeg4 and here are the channels that remain mpeg2 which is relevant if you are a S3 owner. SF Bay Area shares a similar channel map, not that mpeg4 will follow the same model in SF as Sacramento - that remains to be seen. but *mpeg2 channels have no problems on Roamio, or any S3 or newer.*

MPEG2 HD - Tivo Series3 Compatible
(Sacramento list as of July 22, 2016 and subject to change)
703-714 channel range = broadcast networks
720 CSNBD 721 CSNCD 723 NBCSNHD 724 ESPNHD 725 ESPN2HD
727 NBATVHD 729 MLBHD 730 NFLHD 776 WEATHHD 780 CSNCA
788 ESPNUHD 819 CMHTHD

above list of channels is found at the bottom of this post:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10945574#post10945574

*Want even more links on the Roamio issue?*

xfinity forums:
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...-FF-or-REW-a-specific-channel-BBC/m-p/2774044

"The Tivo engineering team looked at the issue and discovered that this behavior was introduced in the Q3.9 (20.6.1) TiVo release as a result of some changes that support certain features on MPEG4 channels. A fix for this has been checked into the TiVo Engineering Build system last week.
At this point Tivo does not yet have a targeted release date, but they will be working with their engineering team to identify when a build with this fix will be available and deployed to TiVo devices."

Sacramento post with failing channels reported to comcast:
http://forums.xfinity.com/t5/Xfinit...to-lower-resolution-720p/m-p/2778182#U2778182

"Roamio will not record some channels" on tivo support forums:
https://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=11288426

from...
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10945110#post10945110



tick_tn said:


> Just got this today from Tivo CS:
> 
> "Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support! This is a response to your current issue that is noted on reference number xxxx. We have taken the next step to escalate this issue further and have identified an issue in the system you are attempting to access. Currently we are researching this issue in the attempt to find a solution. At the moment we have no ETA on when we will be able to get the issue solved. Depending on the issue type our research team will most likely contact you in the event of a possible solution.
> 
> Thank you for your patience while we attempt to resolve this issue. If you choose to respond via E-Mail or Chat please give the representative the reference number xxx. If you choose to respond via our Customer Support Line please give the representative the reference number xxx. Following these case numbers should expedite the troubleshooting process, and thank you for being a TiVo Customer."


----------



## lpwcomp

Best current option is a Premiere.


----------



## karpodiem

My parents live in the suburbs - have two Series3 652160s in the basement, with Slingboxes, for my sister (who is in Chicago) and I (I'm in downtown Detroit).

Been following this MPEG-4 'transition' since it was first announced in the beginning of the year - haven't heard a word about it since it was announced. I doubt it gets done this year.


----------



## kupe

HerronScott said:


> It's a shame you didn't take advantage of the Roamio Pro deal for long time TiVo users ($600 which included lifetime).
> Scott


I was the OP in this thread- one of the early MPEG4 letter recipients. We got the MPEG-4 letter over a year ago here in Atlanta. How I wish they had been offering a Roamio Pro for those of us in the early days of this mess.

We retired our Tivo HD based on the information at the time and bought a Roamio Pro outright since at the time Tivo was not including the Pro in any loyalty or upgrade offers. This despite our having 4 active Tivos and having been Tivo customers since 2003.

Even worse, it now appears that our Tivo HD could be used with the new software, but there was no hint of a fix back then. Now Tivo says they cannot reactivate our 652 series Tivo HD. And our Roamio Pro is losing more and more MPEG4 channels.

Gawd I feel like a chump...


----------



## tivoyahoo

kupe said:


> Now Tivo says they cannot reactivate our 652 series Tivo HD.


And you've been seeing 6 channels not working for over a month on your Roamio Pro in Atlanta, with a 7th added to the list this past weekend with FS1 now failing. And you want to put the TivoHD back in service as fix, but Tivo says no and won't make an exception even given the circumstance in your case where they sold you a box that was supposed to be fully mpeg4 compatible. Which raises the question: Did they offer you any solution?



lpwcomp said:


> Best current option is a Premiere.


I second that. with this addition: a 4 tuner Premiere if you have mini(s). But kupe, I suppose Tivo didn't offer you a Premiere did they? It's the only proven known model where mpeg4 questions don't exist (hence the recommendation), but it's not even offered on tivo outlet.

And as a reader you're probably asking: Why are two posters recommending an old model? And why does tivoyahoo's long post have no mention of the 4 letter word: Bolt. Answer: It's because Tivo has been noticeably silent on whether the Bolt is affected by the same documented issue as the Roamio. and without something definitive from Tivo at this point you can read this board and very well could be thinking:

"same skip mode software as roamio that comcast is saying is at fault , unproven, sounds risky to plunk down the $$ at this point, especially after I just plunked down $$ on the roamio pro and look where that got me. is it more of the same with Bolt?"

But I think in your case kupe, you should pose these questions to Tivo as I'd like to know their answer: "Tivo, so you've sold me this hardware, it's proving not fully mpeg4 compatible as promised - I'm not getting all my hd channels. The model that the Roamio replaced, the Tivo Premiere is fully working. And you've known about this Roamio issue for at least a month but still no support article has been released to address it.

Can you at least tell me the Bolt will work? and guarantee it and stand behind it? Tivo has ongoing upgrade offers for S3 owners, if they upgrade to Bolt are you going to stand behind those upgrades? Or should I take the silence as an admission that Bolt does not or may not fully work as fully mpeg4 compatible with comcast? And if that's the case are you going to stand by the product you already sold me? Because there is a clear issue - where do you stand on warranting my Roamio Pro? and I didn't even need to "upgrade" and buy it since you released software for my TivoHD and I should be able to "downgrade" to fix this issue and add that on my account. Are you really going to deny me and leave me in this situation leaving me little choice but to start looking at X1 dvr as a solution?"

Pretty disappointing case kupe. Since you are poster #1, you might want to add an edit / update or something directing readers to page 6 to see the current sad state of affairs so they can make an informed decision based on what is and is not known at this point. The current tivo emails in response to the comcast mpeg4 letter states no action is necessary on the part of Roamio owners to continue to receive all HD channels after the mpeg4 transition. That's simply not the reality.



karpodiem said:


> My parents live in the suburbs - have two Series3 652160s in the basement, with Slingboxes, for my sister (who is in Chicago) and I (I'm in downtown Detroit).
> 
> Been following this MPEG-4 'transition' since it was first announced in the beginning of the year - haven't heard a word about it since it was announced. I doubt it gets done this year.


The latest post from the suburbs (Oak Grove / Homewood head end) of Chicago as to Roamio problem channels is at this link where poster checked the Chicago known channels (19 as of this writing) and didn't find as many, but listed 11:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10940980#post10940980
but notes he doesn't subscribe to many of the rest. So without a subscription obviously you can't record and check a channel. And *channels affected have been found across all tiers - economy, starter, preferred, premium, sports add on packages*, with the big exception being mpeg2 and network broadcast channels as noted in post #156.

And the roamio channels appear to work fine on TivoHD in the case of your parents two 652's, so TivoHD appears to have or had a different mpeg4 issue noted in post #156 but that status is fuzzy so don't assume the all clear on all channels on the TivoHD's in the Chicago suburbs. *Thanks for the update on Detroit* - that explains why no Roamio problems have popped up on TCF from Roamio users in Detroit - hopefully the kinks get worked out before the rollout there.

Reports from Portland are starting to creep in to TCF with some problem channels (and they are ones that are problems in other cities and fit the pattern) and channel map migration going on there. So the bigger picture is filling in on those 16 comcast markets across 10 states with this latest info from Detroit and Portland. Thanks.

But if you're finding this thread because you got a letter or however you landed here, if you have info on mpeg4 in any of these comcast cities please post and share, even if it's similar to the post from Detroit saying mpeg4 rollout hasn't happened yet:

California - Fresno, Stockton, Modesto and surrounding Central Valley
Georgia - Augusta
Indiana - South Bend
Utah - Salt Lake City
Washington - Seattle

If you're not in one of the cities above and you got a letter or are having problem channels with not recording or not buffering, it's likely already documented on TCF and just a matter of finding it / getting pointed in the right direction with the right links to get up to speed with what's going on in your area.

I've taken Detroit, Portland, and Tucson off the unknown list above (whereas they were previously on it in post #156) thanks to the latest reports. And *if there are existing posts (or new ones) on TCF that have mpeg4 info on any of those cities I'm calling unknown, please post and correct that and point to a link, even if it's not on TCF but on xfinity forums, dslreports, tivo support forums or where ever it might be. And even if the post says mpeg4 working fine here in ______, as long as its a Comcast system - thanks.

And there may be other Comcast mpeg4 cities as well that aren't named on the Tivo mpge4 list*, such as some have been mentioned in rural areas of *Pennsyvlania* outside of Comcast HQ in Philadelphia toward both NJ as well as MD, but again like Tucson don't have much info as to how well mpeg4 is working on Tivos in those areas. And the Tivo support article (linked in post #156) doesn't name any cities in PA or in bordering states. In fact the article doesn't list any states in the northeast, and the closest named are IN and TN, so that's another mystery.

*Tucson* has mpeg4 but it's unreported on TCF as to any roamio problems or not, so that status is untested. The other cities are more of a mystery as to whether they are same status as Detroit with no mpeg4 channels at this point in time. But those letters will probably come at some point and posters from those cities hopefully find this thread down the line.


----------



## karpodiem

a user in another 'forum' mentioned that TiVo isn't pushing out 11.0n, even upon request - can anyone confirm this?


----------



## tivoyahoo

karpodiem said:


> a user in another 'forum' mentioned that TiVo isn't pushing out 11.0n, even upon request - can anyone confirm this?


multiple posts on TCF such as this one:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10953238#post10953238



mlcarson said:


> They're not willing to send me the 11.N for my Tivo HD because it's too old but are doing development work on the series 2 -- really? I've got lifetime on two of them but they've been in a closet collecting dust for at least 5 years. At least the series 3 can do HD but only the 652/658 models can do H.264. What the heck are they doing on such old hardware?


similar recent reports in the Bay Area Mpeg4 thread as mentioned 6 posts prior:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10947839#post10947839

and other reports in other threads as well. just like on the "other" forum. there are some potential workarounds to tivo's lack of support in that bay area thread - zipcode and image restore.


----------



## jtrain

Beaverton, OR - Market

The most recent recording I have that actually works properly from BBCA HD (793) is the final episode of the show "Thirteen" that aired on Thursday, July 21. It is a full/complete recording and has no problems displaying on the Roamio Plus or TiVo mini. TiVo info screen shows the recording as 1080i.

The issue in Beaverton must have started after at least that air date.


----------



## tivoyahoo

-Boston thread:
Comcast MPEG-4 Greater Boston Region 9/27
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542351

-Minneapolis / St. Paul
one reported mpeg4 channel and some test channels


----------



## drewsterb

tivoyahoo said:


> -Boston thread:
> Comcast MPEG-4 Greater Boston Region 9/27
> 
> -Minneapolis / St. Paul
> one reported mpeg4 channel and some test channels


I'm in the Minneapolis St Paul area also (with Comcast), but I haven't seen the letter.

What are the channels in question?


----------



## tivoyahoo

drewsterb said:


> I'm in the Minneapolis St Paul area also (with Comcast), but I haven't seen the letter.
> 
> What are the channels in question?


Thanks for the update. Some MSP discussion in these threads:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10801949#post10801949



tivonly said:


> I'm told that Comcast in Minneapolis/St Paul has rolled out one MPEG4 channel (399 OWN) to start the process of converting everything.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10959884#post10959884

and I think there has been a bit of mpeg4 discussion in the avsforum for comcast MSP. You can flip through channels and spot h.264 channels (without having to enter diagnostics) by toggling on spsrs viewing mode:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10942141#post10942141


----------



## reneg

Got my letter today - Houston - 10/26


----------



## hairyblue

I got an Equipment Update Check letter from Xfinity too. I checked and my Premieres have mpeg-4. So I'm good.

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets

I'm in Denver, CO.


----------



## lpwcomp

ATL Comcast converted last year. I still recently got an equipment upgrade letter. The only piece of equipment I have that might possibly have a problem is one of their SD boxes which is feeding an S2 connected to an old TV. Of course, they offered to "install" a replacement for free. What they don't tell you is that if they install one of their HD boxes, they will add a $10/mo "HD technology" fee to your bill. I think I'll stick with what I have unless they eliminate the SD channels, which is unlikely. Even if they do that, I would replace it with a TiVo rather than one of their boxes.


----------



## hairyblue

lpwcomp said:


> ATL Comcast converted last year. I still recently got an equipment upgrade letter. The only piece of equipment I have that might possibly have a problem is one of their SD boxes which is feeding an S2 connected to an old TV. Of course, they offered to "install" a replacement for free. What they don't tell you is that if they install one of their HD boxes, they will add a $10/mo "HD technology" fee to your bill. I think I'll stick with what I have unless they eliminate the SD channels, which is unlikely. Even if they do that, I would replace it with a TiVo rather than one of their boxes.


I know what you mean. I was going to look at new TiVo's if I had to.


----------



## bluetex

In Houston. Got my mpeg4 death notice for 2 x Series 3 648 Models with Lifetime. What sort of offers can I get if I call TiVo? Anything?


----------



## HerronScott

bluetex said:


> In Houston. Got my mpeg4 death notice for 2 x Series 3 648 Models with Lifetime. What sort of offers can I get if I call TiVo? Anything?


It's been a while since anyone has posted on this but I think the last that I saw was a refurbed Roamio Basic with All-in service for a decent price (especially when you consider what the full price is for All-in).

Call and post back here what they offer you.

Scott


----------



## jungledave

Anyone get a recent offer from Tivo on this transition?
I called today and the only discount they would offer is a refurb Romio 500gb for $25 but $349 for lifetime service.
Any other boxes they want the full $549 for lifetime service. 

Sadly, this may be the end of the line with Tivo for me. I've been had 5+ boxes since a S1 1999, all with lifetime service. $1K for a Romio pro w/ lifetime is just crazy... especially since my S3 (with capacity upgrades) is kicking along just fine. With Comcast introducing 4K channels soon, I expect the whole Tivo lineup will be outdated again shortly.


----------



## HerronScott

jungledave said:


> Anyone get a recent offer from Tivo on this transition?
> I called today and the only discount they would offer is a refurb Romio 500gb for $25 but $349 for lifetime service.
> Any other boxes they want the full $549 for lifetime service.
> 
> Sadly, this may be the end of the line with Tivo for me. I've been had 5+ boxes since a S1 1999, all with lifetime service. $1K for a Romio pro w/ lifetime is just crazy... especially since my S3 (with capacity upgrades) is kicking along just fine. With Comcast introducing 4K channels soon, I expect the whole Tivo lineup will be outdated again shortly.


I've only seen announcements on Comcast 4k on-demand which the Bolt could support if it had a Comcast app (or the existing XOD app supported it).

Do you have an S3 OLED (which won't support MPEG4 with Comcast's updates) or an HD which will support MPEG4?

I picked up a Roamio Pro last October for $600 as part of TiVo's special offer for longtime TiVo owners to replace 2 S3 OLED due to Comcast's MPEG4 upgrades and the increase in All-in/Lifetime cost.

Scott


----------



## jungledave

HerronScott said:


> I've only seen announcements on Comcast 4k on-demand which the Bolt could support if it had a Comcast app (or the existing XOD app supported it).
> 
> Do you have an S3 OLED (which won't support MPEG4 with Comcast's updates) or an HD which will support MPEG4?
> 
> I picked up a Roamio Pro last October for $600 as part of TiVo's special offer for longtime TiVo owners to replace 2 S3 OLED due to Comcast's MPEG4 upgrades and the increase in All-in/Lifetime cost.
> 
> Scott


I don't know if they've announced 4K channels, but I'm sure it's coming. Probably a big driver to move to MPEG4 (since those channels will have to be MPEG4). It's possible the new Tivo Bolt boxes will support 4K channels since they have more horsepower, but I'm worried they won't for a while.

I have an S3 OLED (upgraded to 1TB)... total workhorse.


----------



## videobruce

I'm puzzled how just a firmware update will allow viewing of a different compression type. Isn't that almost the same as trying to make a NTSC tuner ATSC?? 

Will this apply to other CATV operators that switch also??


----------



## ej42137

videobruce said:


> I'm puzzled how just a firmware update will allow viewing of a different compression type. Isn't that almost the same as trying to make a NTSC tuner ATSC??
> 
> Will this apply to other CATV operators that switch also??


The Mpeg4 decompression hardware was already present in the Series 3; before the .H1 release people had uploaded Mpeg4 files to Series 3 and successfully played them. Some theorize the hardware was there to enable support in Australia, where Mpeg4 was already in use. Comcast Mpeg4 works with Series 3 HD but not with plain old Series 3; I believe TiVo has intimated that is due to a hardware issue that can't be overcome with software.


----------



## videobruce

Interesting, I wouldn't of connected the ability of playback of other user stored media.


----------



## HerronScott

ej42137 said:


> Some theorize the hardware was there to enable support in Australia, where Mpeg4 was already in use.


The original S3 has MPEG4 hardware long before TiVo deployed a modified HD in Australia so I'm pretty sure there's no connection with MPEG4 support and Australia



ej42137 said:


> Comcast Mpeg4 works with Series 3 HD but not with plain old Series 3; I believe TiVo has intimated that is due to a hardware issue that can't be overcome with software.


I haven't seen anything to indicate this either. The S3 just has a separate chip to support MPEG4 playback but apparently no code was written to support record/playback from a cable/antenna source unlike the HD which had to have that code for Australia. And at this point, they weren't going to go back and write new code to support that on the S3.

Scott


----------



## karpodiem

(just to clarify for anyone Googling/browsing this thread - the 648 does not have MPEG-4 support, while the 652 does)

I've seen 652's on lifetime, on eBay, for like $150 bucks. So that's a cheap option if you're looking to pare down costs. Plus, you can get an Apple TV for like $150. Not a bad combo, and it happens to be my setup at home : )


----------



## Carlthulhu

I'm in Lyme, CT and got the Comcast letter showing the MPEG-4 transition date is 10 November. I have a TSN 648 model Series 3, and expect to lose many of the HD channels.

I noticed that the software on my 648 is version 11.0n.J1-01-2-648. I've read that version 11.0n is the software that makes the TSN 652 and 658 models compatible with MPEG-4.

Is there any chance that it will make my 648 model compatible as well? Thanks!


----------



## lpwcomp

Carlthulhu said:


> I'm in Lyme, CT and got the Comcast letter showing the MPEG-4 transition date is 10 November. I have a TSN 648 model Series 3, and expect to lose many of the HD channels.
> 
> I noticed that the software on my 648 is version 11.0n.J1-01-2-648. I've read that version 11.0n is the software that makes the TSN 652 and 658 models compatible with MPEG-4.
> 
> Is there any chance that it will make my 648 model compatible as well? Thanks!


No.


----------



## Mike Richardson

I am a Comcast Houston customer as of today.

Is Comcast Houston not actually doing any transitions? I can confirm that as of right now AMC-HD is broadcasting in MPEG-2, 1920x1080i on this system. Maybe premiums are first? I can check HBO.

I would have just assumed that Houston would surely flip over to MPEG-4 since they have lots of 750 MHz systems (Houston is a mish-mash of several systems of varying bandwidth).

Also this is more subjective but I am noticing a poorer picture quality from the X1 converter box, compared to the TiVo. (it's a regular non DVR X1 box - they wanted $20/mo for DVR, I said I have a lifetime TiVo, no thanks!)


----------



## Mike Richardson

So maybe I spoke too soon. I am noticing random HD channels do not load. This includes 622 TOONHD and 630 MTVHD. The SD versions do load, these are channels in my package.

Are these MPEG-4 channels maybe (that for some reason the 11.0n is failing to pick up on)? Or more likely, it's Comcast's horribly sh**ty cable card provisioning that has randomly failed.

The guy in India/Philippines/Flavor Of The Month country asked me what TiVo I had and listed something like "Bolt, Roamio, or Premiere"? I told him I have "the older one" but that it should be compatible.

EDIT: 643 NIKHD is also MPEG-2. Had a hunch but it turned out to be wrong.


----------



## reneg

Mike Richardson said:


> So maybe I spoke too soon. I am noticing random HD channels do not load. This includes 622 TOONHD and 630 MTVHD. The SD versions do load, these are channels in my package.
> 
> Are these MPEG-4 channels maybe (that for some reason the 11.0n is failing to pick up on)? Or more likely, it's Comcast's horribly sh**ty cable card provisioning that has randomly failed.
> 
> The guy in India/Philippines/Flavor Of The Month country asked me what TiVo I had and listed something like "Bolt, Roamio, or Premiere"? I told him I have "the older one" but that it should be compatible.
> 
> EDIT: 643 NIKHD is also MPEG-2. Had a hunch but it turned out to be wrong.


I'm also in Houston. I haven't noticed any channels changing over yet.


----------



## Mike Richardson

Here is some information about the MPEG-4 transition, I dunno if it was know or not.

Basically, a channel is MPEG-4 (and your TiVo is incompatible), if you hear the program audio but see a black picture.

I am having a problem right now where a small number of random channels are totally black AND silent. So they have elevated this within Comcast support to see if they can get me a fix for this issue.

I definitely have one of the MPEG-4 compatible TiVos with the N software and everything. It just looks like Houston has not actually transitioned any channels yet.


----------



## enthalpy

Got the dreaded MPEG-4 letter from Comcast. This is central NJ. I was hoping Comcast would forget about us (somewhat) rural people for a while longer. Just did a weaknees hard disc upgrade a year ago in my S3 (OLED 648) machine.

My letter is headlined "Equipment Update", and then "Check your equipment". The transition date for me is Jan 4, 2017. It's nice that Comcast acknowledges that I have a Tivo by name. Every call to Comcast tech support results in a person who has never heard of Tivo.

I'm gonna call Tivo and see what deal they are willing to give me. I don't know if I can stomach paying for lifetime service again. 

And reading this thread, when will we find out if the Bolt is problem free with MPEG-4?


----------



## enthalpy

OK, I had to read through tivoyahoo's detailed messages, with their links to other forums. From this forum:

Roamio will not record some channels | TiVo Troubleshooting | TiVo Help Forums

It sounds like the Roamio + Bolt + MPEG-4 problem was solved by Tivo after August 24, 2016. I didn't want to buy a Bolt and have HD channels disappear on me.


----------



## enthalpy

so ... I am going to stop replying to myself, right after this . . . . I called Tivo for the latest deal for us unfortunate Comcast customers. The guy made the following offers, a bit of a surprise to me:
-- buy a Tivo Premier xl (not the xl4) 1 TB for $0 (zero dollars!), and pay $350 for lifetime service
or
-- get $25 off a Bolt, or $25 off a refurbished Bolt (whatever model), and pay $550 for lifetime service.

Since I'm on an S3 now, the premier is an incremental upgrade for me, and of course, it'll work with Comcast. I don't need 4K.


----------



## HerronScott

That's sounds like the current MPEG4 offer that someone else posted. They were offering Roamio's earlier this year (4-tuner basic model) but it sounds like that's no longer an option.

Scott


----------



## Mike Richardson

enthalpy said:


> It's nice that Comcast acknowledges that I have a Tivo by name. Every call to Comcast tech support results in a person who has never heard of Tivo.


That's so weird. Every time I mention the cable card, they ask me what TiVo I have, and how I like it (and they aren't even trying to sell me X1 or anything), but it's as if no other cable card devices even exist. I mean, I would guess that non-TiVo cable card usage is probably a pretty low number, but still.


----------



## MJedi

Two weeks ago, I stopped getting some channels on my Series 3 with OLED display. Did all the troubleshooting, and finally had a Comcast tech come by today. So it turns out it was caused by the MPEG-4 transition that happened in my area. I got the letter from Comcast months ago, but ignored it because I got an e-mail from TiVo saying "no action is necessary." Well, I misread that e-mail because I thought the Series 3 was the TiVo HD. Since I needed those channels available today, I opted to try the X1 DVR. Then I have to decide whether to keep it, or get a Roamio or Bolt.


----------



## HerronScott

MJedi said:


> Two weeks ago, I stopped getting some channels on my Series 3 with OLED display. Did all the troubleshooting, and finally had a Comcast tech come by today. So it turns out it was caused by the MPEG-4 transition that happened in my area. I got the letter from Comcast months ago, but ignored it because I got an e-mail from TiVo saying "no action is necessary." Well, I misread that e-mail because I thought the Series 3 was the TiVo HD. Since I needed those channels available today, I opted to try the X1 DVR. Then I have to decide whether to keep it, or get a Roamio or Bolt.


The Comcast MPEG transition is why I upgraded from 2 S3 OLED's to a Roamio Pro (and the increase in lifetime service). Let us know how your X1 experience goes although really you need to compare it to a Bolt or Roamio.

Scott


----------



## Paw Paw

Comcast Houston converted numerous channels to Mpeg4 last night in my area and I can no longer tune them on my TiVo.

Series 3 HD 
Software Version 11.0n.H1-01-2-652
Service Number 652-0001-8037-3429

I get a blank screen and no sound. I tried a power on reset without success. Does any one have any other ideas? I thought this unit would handle the Mpeg4 streams
with the 11.0n software.


----------



## HerronScott

Paw Paw said:


> Comcast Houston converted numerous channels to Mpeg4 last night in my area and I can no longer tune them on my TiVo.
> 
> Series 3 HD
> Software Version 11.0n.H1-01-2-652
> Service Number 652-0001-8037-3429
> 
> I get a blank screen and no sound. I tried a power on reset without success. Does any one have any other ideas? I thought this unit would handle the Mpeg4 streams
> with the 11.0n software.


The HD should be able to receive MPEG4 channels. I would open a case with TiVo.

Scott


----------



## Paw Paw

HerronScott said:


> The HD should be able to receive MPEG4 channels. I would open a case with TiVo.
> 
> Scott


I opened one yesterday. Thanks for your response


----------



## HerronScott

Paw Paw said:


> I opened one yesterday. Thanks for your response


Did you get a notification of Houston moving to MPEG4 as this user from Houston has lost some channels but is indicating that Houston is still MPEG2?

Is it bad to have Cable + OTA on same TiVo?

Scott


----------



## Paw Paw

HerronScott said:


> Did you get a notification of Houston moving to MPEG4 as this user from Houston has lost some channels but is indicating that Houston is still MPEG2?
> 
> Is it bad to have Cable + OTA on same TiVo?
> 
> Scott


Comcast Houston sent out the warning letter to check your equipment last month with an Oct 26 cut off date for upgrading any non Mpeg4 equipment.

Comcast Houston has a segmented system due to the size of the area and the fact that there were once multiple providers servicing various parts of the city. I live in the NW part of the county and it is possible that others sections of their service area have not been converted yet. Since I also have a Ceton InifiniTV card I can pull a list of the various channels and the frequency associated with them. As of Friday there were 4 frequencies that had 9 HD channels assigned to each of them. The only way to get 9 HD channels squeezed into 6Mhz of band width is to use Mpeg4 and convert them to 720p.

These are the channels that I can no longer tune with both my TiVos that are 652s that have the 11.0n software.

My Ceton InifiniTV HTPC and my one Comcast box do not
have the issue.

Thus I concluded that it is an issue with the TiVos not handling the Mpeg4 stream properly.


----------



## Paw Paw

I received conformation today on AVS forums that Comcast Houston has converted to Mpeg4


----------



## reneg

Paw Paw said:


> Comcast Houston converted numerous channels to Mpeg4 last night in my area and I can no longer tune them on my TiVo.
> 
> Series 3 HD
> Software Version 11.0n.H1-01-2-652
> Service Number 652-0001-8037-3429
> 
> I get a blank screen and no sound. I tried a power on reset without success. Does any one have any other ideas? I thought this unit would handle the Mpeg4 streams
> with the 11.0n software.


I'm also in Houston and most of my channels switched to mpeg4 overnight. I have the same blank screen & no sound issue however my issue seems to be focused on HD channels. Comcast had me tune in mpeg4 SD channels and they worked. Three-way call with Tivo & Comcast did not resolved my issue. Comcast wants me to swap out my circa 2007 cablecard for another.


----------



## Mike Richardson

removed


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## Paw Paw

reneg said:


> I'm also in Houston and most of my channels switched to mpeg4 overnight. I have the same blank screen & no sound issue however my issue seems to be focused on HD channels. Comcast had me tune in mpeg4 SD channels and they worked. Three-way call with Tivo & Comcast did not resolved my issue. Comcast wants me to swap out my circa 2007 cablecard for another.


It is my understanding that there are NO Mpeg4 SD channels and that Comcast is only converting HD channels to Mpeg4. They are up to 54 channels converted to Mpeg4 now in my area.


----------



## reneg

Paw Paw said:


> It is my understanding that there are NO Mpeg4 SD channels and that Comcast is only converting HD channels to Mpeg4. They are up to 54 channels converted to Mpeg4 now in my area.


Just relaying what the Comcast cablecard guy told me, it doesn't surprise me that he gave me wrong info. He had me try channels 33 & 50.

I have a 652 model Tivo. I swapped cablecards like the Comcast guy requested, had it repaired and I still have the same issue. Very frustrating.


----------



## Mike Richardson

removed


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## Mike Richardson

removed


----------



## Paw Paw

Mike Richardson said:


> Recording 33 now... OK, got a few minutes.
> 
> Now I will pull it down from the built in web server... something is downloading. I have a 64.1 MB file called "College Football Countdown.TiVo".
> 
> Doing other stuff now, that I'm not sure we can discuss or not... OK. This is an MPEG-2 file. Proof is below.
> 
> 33 is MPEG-2, at least in my particular Comcast Houston system. I am to understand there are 4 systems, which does make sense since it is comprised of several systemsthat have been pasted together over the years. (A long time ago, around 1998 when I was ~11 years old, we were one of the very first customers of "TCI Digital Cable" in north Houston. I think this was a very old 550 MHz system or something that they were trying to get more life out of).
> 
> My system (Westchase area) flipped various HD channels to MPEG-4 sometime before November 1st (before I was actually a subscriber), whereas Paw Paw's system (Spring TX area) flipped more recently, I think around the 11th.
> 
> I don't think any SD channels are MPEG-4. That would seem to break some of the older DTAs.
> 
> *Edit: Tried channel 50 Galavision. It is also MPEG-2 for me. Very similar result as below, but the overall bit rate is around 3200 which is surprising, you would think ESPN would get the edge. However I only got about 2 minutes of channel 50.
> 
> Also based on your info reneg I think I will just return these awesome, but useless, brand new (shiny and attractive) cable cards that were sent to me from somewhere in Colorado. They are so nice and clean and new, but Comcast says they are not properly "inventoried" and cannot be activated. Based on your info, it would seem that changing the cable card does not improve the situation, so my old dirty kicked around sticky cable card should be adequate.
> 
> Unless other reports differ then I would also recommend that no one else in Houston with a 652 bother changing the cable card until we get more details about this ongoing situation.*
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> Airhead:Downloads mike$ mediainfo espn.mpeg
> General
> Complete name                            : espn.mpeg
> Format                                   : MPEG-PS
> File size                                : 61.1 MiB
> Duration                                 : 3 min 5 s
> Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
> Overall bit rate                         : 2 768 kb/s
> 
> Video
> ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)
> Format                                   : MPEG Video
> Format version                           : Version 2
> Format profile                           : [email protected]
> Format settings, BVOP                    : Yes
> Format settings, Matrix                  : Custom
> Format settings, GOP                     : Variable
> Format settings, picture structure       : Frame
> Duration                                 : 3 min 5 s
> Bit rate mode                            : Variable
> Bit rate                                 : 2 521 kb/s
> Maximum bit rate                         : 18.0 Mb/s
> Width                                    : 704 pixels
> Height                                   : 480 pixels
> Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
> Frame rate                               : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
> Standard                                 : NTSC
> Color space                              : YUV
> Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
> Bit depth                                : 8 bits
> Scan type                                : Interlaced
> Scan order                               : Bottom Field First
> Compression mode                         : Lossy
> Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.249
> Stream size                              : 55.7 MiB (91%)
> 
> Audio
> ID                                       : 189 (0xBD)-128 (0x80)
> Format                                   : AC-3
> Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3
> Mode extension                           : CM (complete main)
> Format settings, Endianness              : Big
> Muxing mode                              : DVD-Video
> Duration                                 : 3 min 5 s
> Bit rate mode                            : Constant
> Bit rate                                 : 192 kb/s
> Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
> Channel positions                        : Front: L R
> Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
> Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 spf)
> Compression mode                         : Lossy
> Delay relative to video                  : -398 ms
> Stream size                              : 4.24 MiB (7%)
> 
> Text #1
> ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)-CC1
> Format                                   : EIA-608
> Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
> Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
> Bit rate mode                            : Constant
> Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
> 
> Text #2
> ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)-1
> Format                                   : EIA-708
> Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
> Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
> Bit rate mode                            : Constant
> Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)
> 
> Text #3
> ID                                       : 224 (0xE0)-2
> Format                                   : EIA-708
> Muxing mode                              : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
> Muxing mode, more info                   : Muxed in Video #1
> Bit rate mode                            : Constant
> Stream size                              : 0.00 Byte (0%)


TiVo had me swap out one of my CableCards when I first called them. Don't waste your time. Replacing the CableCard does not resolve the issue.


----------



## reneg

I called Comcast again this morning trying another agent on the cablecard hotline. No progress to report. It seems that they just don't have enough reports of problems on Tivo HDs to do anything about it yet.


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## kpasha

Hello, from Katy. I thought I'd let give you all a report from Houston's west side. I have a couple of 652's with the n software. So I got the Comcast letter a few months ago, then called TiVo- they said it's all good, then starting dropping the HD channels in mid October (and they are continually going black and silent as I write), then called Comcast, and did their stupid support protocol (pairing, reboot etc.) with no results, then swapped cable cards (still no HD's), then a tech came to verify I have a strong signal (which I do), then he called Comcast support and told them everything (again), then Comcast said they are elevating my issue to their "advanced" team and they will be in touch. That was on the 16th of November and nothing back from them yet. I imagine the "advanced" team has received quite a few of these cases by now.

I guess that the only thing I can contribute to others in Houston with Comcast is don't do waste your time trying to solve this the obvious way because it makes no difference and wait until we hear back from the "advanced" team. I hope we really do hear back, or mysteriously overnight our HD channels reappear! The upside for right now is that the SD equivalents of the lost HD channels are still available.


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## jeff kocur

Same issue here in Minneapolis. I have a 652 with the 11.0n software and since last week most of my HD cable channels have not been coming through. I get al of my local channels, Fox News, ESPN and some others. Both Comcast and Tivo keep jockeying me back and forth. Tivo told me to do a system reset because I still had my old zip code listed, but as I suspected that didn't change anything as Comcast provides the same service and channel lineup in both adjoining cities.

Tivo also told me on the first call that it was an issue of the signal coming into my house being too loud and that Comcast would have to come out and damper the feed. At this point, I believe the issue is with the box, and I am going to pursue further action with Tivo.


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## Paw Paw

TiVo is actively working on the Mpeg4 issue in the Comcast Houston area (includes Katy) for the 652's with 11.0n software. At their request I supplied them with diags for their troubleshooting. Hopefully they will get to the bottom of it this week but I make no promises. I am not sure if our issue in Houston applies to Minneapolis but I will keep everyone apprised as TiVo works the problem in the Houston area.


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## Tess B

I'm in MPLS too and missing all my fav channels on HD. I had Comcast out on Friday and not a Comcast issue really but they did confirm they moved the HD channels to mpeg4 and to call TiVo. The guy at TiVo seemed to recognize that it is the same issue as Texas. He said they are working on a fix to be out soon. But no ETA. I'm sure hoping they are.


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## karpodiem

interesting stuff guys, keep us in the loop about the 652 issues.


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## jeff kocur

These are pretty much the exact same channels I'm getting or not getting.

Comcast told me it wasn't related to the Mpeg 4 because if it was related I would have received sound, but no video.

Comcast suggested it was my 8 year old Cisco cablecard, so I spent an hour at the Comcast store today replacing it. That didn't fix it.

Tivo suggested my signal strength coming into the house was too strong and Comcast would have to turn it down to 80%.

I called Comcast again, and the call dropped as I was being transferred to the advanced tech after 15 minutes of troubleshooting the exact same things with the agent.

No one I have spoken to this weekend at either Comcast or Tivo seemed to be aware of this specific issue, and made me go through all of the system checks and whatnot.

I'lll wait and see what the solution is. I hope Tivo can fix it or offer a good replacement, or I will just hold tight until the XFinity App is released for Roku or Apple TV.



Mike Richardson said:


> Very interesting developments. I wonder what the commonality is for Houston and Minneapolis vs all other Comcast markets?
> 
> I have an X1 non-DVR box so I can still at least watch national HD channels, but I think I will still complain and try to get maybe the "additional outlet fee" waived or something, since I have both verbal and written communication from Comcast that said the 652 will be compatible here. I'm a new customer as of November 1st so I've never even seen some of these channels on my TiVo. Like the others I seem to be getting basically locals and sports in HD on this TiVo, and some random few other channels, I think Animal Planet HD is still coming in.
> 
> I have witnessed channels going away as well. Originally I had all my HBO HD channels but they are all gone as well. But at least on demand on the X1 box can fill this in. 668 MSNBC has also disappeared, CNN is gone, Headline is gone.
> 
> Weather channel still comes in but that's considered a "local" since they have local equipment to insert the temperature and stuff.


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## Jemico

Add me to the list of Houston Comcast customers with a 652 going black on HD channels that have been converted to MPEG4. As others have dealt with, I've gone through support with both TiVo and Comcast, replaced cable card, was told my signal was too strong (BS), and submitted my DVR diag data to TiVo. 

Conclusion: I was told this is a known issue and to maybe just wait to see if TiVo can resolve this issue with another future patch...


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## lpwcomp

This sounds like the same problem that hit the Roamios a while back where they couldn't handle the compression scheme that Comcast started using for some channels.


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## Jemico

Instead of waiting to see when or if a software update would resolve this, I thought I'd just go ahead and take advantage of the "customers affected by this transition" special. Calling yesterday, I was told (because I have a 652) I am not eligible.


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## jeff kocur

I spoke with someone at Tivo that was finally aware of the problem in Minneapolis and Houston. Was offered nothing different than the current White Out sale and a promise that they were working on it fixing the problem. I am going to wait it out a little longer.


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## Jemico

Still, nothing in Houston market area resolved with the MPEG4 blackouts on the TiVo HD. Meanwhile, manually managing my season passes to record the non HD broadcasts.


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## ScottMN

Minneapolis market here, southwest metro area in Eden Prairie specifically. Same issues as others are reporting just happened within the past week. Both 652's stopped showing most HD channels, black screen and no sound. The local HD's are fine (lower 800 channels), as is Fox News, the weather channel, and a few others. The SW version is 11.0n.H1-... My third box is a Premiere XL that is working fine for all channels. I'm searching for a Comcast tech's contact info from a year or so ago. This tech was from their advanced team and solved some pairing issues for me that the normal Comcast people could not solve. I'll point them at this thread if I still have their info.


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## Roy Farrior

Houston area here. Model 658. Same runaround from Comcast as others have experienced. Replaced cable card, no help. Currently missing about half of the HD channels we are paying for and seem to be losing additional channels as the days go by. Tivo service confirms my equipment is compatible with mpeg4 but can not yet get it to work. Ball seems to be in TiVo's court. Been waiting for software fix for a week now. Unwilling to buy new TiVo dvr since current equipment is/was working and had lifetime service.


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## jakerock

Just got our notice last week and had a momentary panic. Then checked Tivo and thought we were OK. Now having read this thread for the first time I'm not sure whether I should be worried or not. Two Premieres and a Tivo HD. It sounds like worst case I'd need to replace the Tivo HD if we have a problem but we're probably OK?


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## ScottMN

jakerock said:


> Just got our notice last week and had a momentary panic. Then checked Tivo and thought we were OK. Now having read this thread for the first time I'm not sure whether I should be worried or not. Two Premieres and a Tivo HD. It sounds like worst case I'd need to replace the Tivo HD if we have a problem but we're probably OK?


The Premiers are fine.

Your HD depends upon the model. Look on the back for the TSN or Tivo Service Number. If it begins with 648 then you are out of luck and it will not support the newer MPEG4 format. SD channels, OTA channels, and some local HD channels through the cable connection will still work. But the upper HD channels converted to MPEG4 will not work on a 648 model.

If your TSN begins with 652 or 658 your should be fine as the latest Tivo software works with MPEG4 in nearly all areas of the country.

But the most recent issues are with 652 or 658, the latest SW, and in the Minneapolis or Houston markets. Comcast apparently has changed something in these markets breaking support for MPEG4 on the 652/658. There is hope that Tivo will release another software version to correct the latest isolated problems, but only for the 652/658 models.


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## karpodiem

interesting that only these two MPEG-4 markets are having issues with 652/658's.


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## jakerock

Ouch I see that Tivo has a $500 cyber Monday deal on an All-In Tivo Romio Pro. Maybe I need to upgrade the TiVo HD to that. Ya I know it should be OK but it's an excuse I can sell.


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## Jemico

jakerock said:


> Ouch I see that Tivo has a $500 cyber Monday deal on an All-In Tivo Romio Pro. Maybe I need to upgrade the TiVo HD to that. Ya I know it should be OK but it's an excuse I can sell.


That's exactly what I did yesterday. I decided to take advantage of the BF deal and picked up the Roamio Pro 6 Tuner / 3TB w/ Lifetime as well as a Mini. I'm going to ebay my TivoHD 1TB w/ Lifetime. The Roamio is a big step up for me from my one and only TivoHD that I've had for 10 years.

I'd rather not have multiple Tivos. I love the idea of a Master DVR such as the 6 tuner Roamio and Mini Tivos everywhere else. One cable card, one Tivo subscription, one place to record shows.

As an added surprise, the units shipped out of Ft Worth. So the units I ordered yesterday are out for delivery today.


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## jakerock

I thought about removing the cable cards from the other Roamios and just using them to stream from the Pro to those TVs. I'm not sure how that would fly with the family. $15 a month savings if I get rid of the two cable cards though.


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## Soapm

Is there any way to tell if I have mpeg4 recordings on my TivoHD? I am assuming Comcast upgraded in the Denver area but I don't know for sure. I would be nice to see if I have mpeg4 recording paying fine so I can put this change to rest.


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## Jemico

Oh man, so I just got the Roamio Pro going and I'm amazed how much better it is over the TivoHD. Even the picture quality is better. 

And let me assure you, the TiVo Mini is absolutely the way to go! It's like having two Roamio Pros in the house.


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## Mike Richardson

I live alone.

When I had cable, several apartments ago the TiVo was my primary receiver. (I did have a couple of free DTAs, of course those are not free these days). I used remnant coaxial wiring in my apartment, from a previous out of business cable company, to send the TiVo signal into my bedroom. I would control it using an app on my phone.

My current apartment is set up very similarly. Except before cable, I had a DISH DVR receiver (older model 922 that has independent TV outputs), so all of my rooms had DISH (they have UHF remotes). But in my bedroom I kept my TiVo (now with lifetime) and an antenna and I could use that as "extra tuners" or whatever.

My bedroom has a very nice JVC CRT SDTV with a legitimate 16:9 squeeze mode that actually draws the lines closer together. If you hook this up to the TiVo with component cables, outputting in an "anamorphic" format combined with the 16:9 mode, the picture is damn good (especially for half-watching a movie while I fall asleep).

I feel like Comcast sold me a bill of goods here and that TiVo endorsed it. I'm not very mad at TiVo only because I am generally amazed at their support of this old model. Comcast is billing me $9.95 per month for "Digital Add'l Outlet Svc" that is not getting all of (basically, NONE OF) the so called digital services that I am paying for. Sometimes I feel like I am paying 3 times for these services.

I literally just witnessed one of the last national 1080i MPEG-2 HD channels disappear before my eyes. For whatever reason A&E has been transmitted in MPEG-2 for the entire month of November until today. As of about 3 AM it is gone, a black screen with no audio. It surely is now in their depressed, bandwidth starved 720p, centrally dictated MPEG-4 format. *And even that might look practically fantastic on my bedroom CRT but I can't bloody well tune it.*

No one deserves a dime from me right now nor should they really get a dime from anyone else. TiVo gets nothing until they give some answers. I would be 100% satisfied with a logical, technical explanation of the issue, that either FULLY explains why it cannot be corrected, or outlines a roadmap for a patch. Maybe Comcast is doing stupid/shady crap in these two markets that is totally borking the decoder chip. Just explain that to me and I'm satisfied with TiVo. Otherwise, if the ball is rolling on a patch, I'm happy as well.

Comcast is another story. Their own documentation said this TiVo is compatible. It is clearly at this time not compatible in Houston, Texas and Minneapolis, Minnesota. You sold me a bill of goods. You can't even bill your customers right most of the time. I don't even care much for A&E but that just seems like the straw that broke the already lame, demented, and leprotic camel's back. Do not activate the cable cards in this model of TiVo! I was a new customer and you allowed the card to be activated in a TiVo that for some damn reason in this market doesn't work!


----------



## Paw Paw

Mike,

While I share your frustration, I know for a fact that TiVo and Comcast are working together as a team to resolve our issue. Both of them are very much aware of the problem and want to fix it ASAP.

Right now they have identified what is happening and are researching why the 652/658 units cannot tune the Mpeg4 channels in these two markets and the best way to resolve it.

Like you, I too want it fixed right now but lets give them some time to properly resolve the issue and not issue a patch that only creates additional problems.


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## worachj

Soapm said:


> Is there any way to tell if I have mpeg4 recordings on my TivoHD? I am assuming Comcast upgraded in the Denver area but I don't know for sure. I would be nice to see if I have mpeg4 recording paying fine so I can put this change to rest.


I don't own a TiVo HD, so I'm not sure if this will show if mpeg4(h.264) is being used.

Settings=>Account & System Information=> DVR Diagnostgics

This screen will show information for the channel your tuners are currently tuned to. Scroll to Video PID. IF it says h.264 then that tuner is tuned to a mpeg4 channel.


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## Soapm

On an HD channel mines says 0xE5C (Unknown) but I will keep an eye on this.

Thanks...


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## worachj

Soapm said:


> On an HD channel mines says 0xE5C (Unknown) but I will keep an eye on this.
> 
> Thanks...


Another way of checking is that the bit rate for mpeg4 will be close to 1/3 less than a mpeg2 recoding. If you check the file size of a recording, a normal one hour show will be around 5-7 GB and the mpreg4 recording will be less than 2 GB. You can check a recordings file size by hitting the info button on your remote while watching a recording viewing the description/recording options.


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## Mike Richardson

Paw Paw said:


> Mike,
> 
> While I share your frustration, I know for a fact that TiVo and Comcast are working together as a team to resolve our issue. Both of them are very much aware of the problem and want to fix it ASAP.
> 
> Right now they have identified what is happening and are researching why the 652/658 units cannot tune the Mpeg4 channels in these two markets and the best way to resolve it.
> 
> Like you, I too want it fixed right now but lets give them some time to properly resolve the issue and not issue a patch that only creates additional problems.


This is really a Comcast rant. I have no real primary complaint with TiVo.

Comcast called me and said they can waive the "additional outlet fee", so I'm happy for now. This would be a completely different story if I didn't have the X1 box.


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## Mike Richardson

Is Minneapolis a Cisco market? I got this message from Comcast direct support employee on DSLR:



> There is likely related to a national issue that is affecting some Cisco branded Cablecards and channels being delivered in MPEG4 format. I know our national engineering teams continue to investigate this with Tivo and Cisco.


I think there's two kinds of markets based on the encryption? Cisco and some other one?


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## Paw Paw

Yes there are Motorola and Cisco CableCards. Although both companies have sold their CableCard Business to other companies that is still how they are referenced. The two CableCards are different and each cable system uses one or the other. Comcast Houston used Motorola CableCards in the beginning but switched to Cisco cards in 2009. At that time they refused to supply Cisco single stream cards and would only give out the M or multi-stream cards. I had 2 TV's that had CableCard slots in them and neither one of them would work with the Cisco multi-stream cards. Comcast wanted me to rent 2 set top boxes and I told them no thank you (or something like that) and bought my 2 TiVo's. The TiVo's have been a good investment and more than paid for themselves besides having a superior user interface.


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## Soapm

worachj said:


> Another way of checking is that the bit rate for mpeg4 will be close to 1/3 less than a mpeg2 recoding. If you check the file size of a recording, a normal one hour show will be around 5-7 GB and the mpreg4 recording will be less than 2 GB. You can check a recordings file size by hitting the info button on your remote while watching a recording viewing the description/recording options.


I have several shows that are 3.06 GB. Not sure how that figures in???


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## worachj

Soapm said:


> I have several shows that are 3.06 GB. Not sure how that figures in???


Its going to be a little be hard to determine because bit rates vary from channel to channel and cable provider to cable provider.

3.06 GB for an 1 hour show is 6.8 Mbps, which is a little high, so my guess its mpreg2. Any thing under 2.0 GB for an 1 hour show would most likely be using h.264.

convert GB per hour to Mbps - Google Search

I have Comcast in the Twin Cities. All my local stations are mpreg2 and all the other HD channels are H.264. So I would look at one recording from a local channel, and compare it to something like the History HD channel.

Here' an example from my system.
1 hour mpreg2 recording on CBS is 6.41 GB or 14.24 Mbps.
1 hour h.264 recording on History HD is 1.89 GB or 4.2 Mbps.

Sorry if I'm confusing and not much help.


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## HerronScott

Soapm said:


> On an HD channel mines says 0xE5C (Unknown) but I will keep an eye on this.


Check one of the network channels since those are staying MPEG2 to see what it shows. I do recall a post at some point showing what an older HD would show for MPEG4/MPEG2 and where. I just can't recall if it was this location like on the newer ones or if was maybe one of the CableCard menus.

Scott


----------



## ryankkelly

karpodiem said:


> interesting that only these two MPEG-4 markets are having issues with 652/658's.


We own a 658 in the Philly market and we are experiencing very similar issues to the posters from MN/Houston - some HD channels are just black (started with HBO and Cinemax several days ago and now there are others). We are just getting started on our Comcast customer service odyssey; tech was at our house this morning and they are going to come back with a new cable card, though reading these posts makes me think that won't make any difference.


----------



## Paw Paw

If it is the same problem a new CableCard is not the solution. Has Comcast confirmed that they are actively converting to Mpeg4 in Philly and if so that your "blank" channels been switched to Mpeg4?

I suggest you call TiVo Support at 877-367-8486 and let them know about your problem. TiVo, Comcast and Cisco are all actively working on this and if it is effecting Philly too they would want to know.


----------



## ryankkelly

Paw Paw said:


> If it is the same problem a new CableCard is not the solution. Has Comcast confirmed that they are actively converting to Mpeg4 in Philly and if so that your "blank" channels been switched to Mpeg4?
> 
> I suggest you call TiVo Support at 877-367-8486 and let them know about your problem. TiVo, Comcast and Cisco are all actively working on this and if it is effecting Philly too they would want to know.


The tech had a list of stations in our market that have been converted to mpeg-4 (HBO, Cinemax, Nat Geo Wild HD, Sprout HD and one other I can't remember) and we have the same issue for all of them.


----------



## Paw Paw

ryankkelly said:


> The tech had a list of stations in our market that have been converted to mpeg-4 (HBO, Cinemax, Nat Geo Wild HD, Sprout HD and one other I can't remember) and we have the same issue for all of them.


Based on that, please call TiVo and get them to add you and Philly to the list of clients with this issue. The issue is 652/658 TiVo's with the 11.0n software unable to tune Mpeg4 channels. The Comcast tech will probably escalate your problem up to his tech support team too.

Just out of curiosity do you use a Cisco or Motorola CableCard? A dollar says it is a Cisco.


----------



## ryankkelly

Paw Paw said:


> Based on that, please call TiVo and get them to add you and Philly to the list of clients with this issue. The issue is 652/658 TiVo's with the 11.0n software unable to tune Mpeg4 channels. The Comcast tech will probably escalate your problem up to his tech support team too.
> 
> Just out of curiosity do you use a Cisco or Motorola CableCard? A dollar says it is a Cisco.


Will do. This is pretty frustrating though; my wife and I have loved TiVos since the early 2000s and for the first time this has us thinking about jumping ship. Even if we upgrade to the newest Tivo boxes, what's to stop the breeze at Comcast from slightly shifting and causing new compatibility issues a few months down the line?

Powered down the Tivo and took out the card; it's a Scientific Atlanta, which is Cisco as I understand it.


----------



## Paw Paw

Yes a Scientific Atlanta card is now Cisco.

As I posted earlier, I purchased my TiVo's in 2009. In 2011, when Comcast was making a significant push to add HD content. a similar issue occurred in the Houston area where the TiVo's would not receive some of the channels so this type of thing does happen but infrequently. That problem was corrected in a few weeks with Comcast and TiVo working together and I hope this problem will be resolved quickly too. I know that there is a group of engineers from TiVo, Comcast and Cisco that are actively attacking this problem.

Since the 652/658 units with the 11.0n software have been working successfully in other Comcast areas I have high hope that the issue will be resolved ASAP.


----------



## jeff kocur

Mike Richardson said:


> Is Minneapolis a Cisco market? I got this message from Comcast direct support employee on DSLR:
> 
> I think there's two kinds of markets based on the encryption? Cisco and some other one?


I live in Minneapolis and have a Cisco card. When I stopped receiving hd, I switched out the card and asked about a different brand, but was told Cisco was all they had here.


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## Texan33

Paw Paw said:


> I opened one yesterday. Thanks for your response


How do you open a case with Tivo?


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## Paw Paw

To open a ticket call TiVo Support at 877-367-8486. I have had much better success that way. The online system looks like it just gets you a generic computer generated response. At least that was my result. 

If you have a 652/658 and are calling about the Mpeg4 issue; TiVo, Comcast and Cisco are all actively working on this since it has impact on multiple locations (Houston, Minneapolis and maybe Philadelphia). Adding your concerns to the list wouldn't hurt. The more they realize how many clients are impacted the harder they might work the issue.


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## Texan33

ScottMN said:


> Minneapolis market here, southwest metro area in Eden Prairie specifically. Same issues as others are reporting just happened within the past week. Both 652's stopped showing most HD channels, black screen and no sound. The local HD's are fine (lower 800 channels), as is Fox News, the weather channel, and a few others. The SW version is 11.0n.H1-... My third box is a Premiere XL that is working fine for all channels. I'm searching for a Comcast tech's contact info from a year or so ago. This tech was from their advanced team and solved some pairing issues for me that the normal Comcast people could not solve. I'll point them at this thread if I still have their info.


Have same problem in the Houston Area. If you get anything accomplished please let me know. Thanks


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## enthalpy

enthalpy said:


> . I called Tivo for the latest deal for us unfortunate Comcast customers. The guy made the following offers, a bit of a surprise to me:
> -- buy a Tivo Premier xl (not the xl4) 1 TB for $0 (zero dollars!), and pay $350 for lifetime service
> or
> -- get $25 off a Bolt, or $25 off a refurbished Bolt (whatever model), and pay $550 for lifetime service.
> 
> Since I'm on an S3 now, the premier is an incremental upgrade for me, and of course, it'll work with Comcast. I don't need 4K.


Well. The premiere goes back. The hd ui is pretty but too slow on this box. Search is the worst. Spinning blue circle. Spinning blue circle. Spinning blue circle. I'll stick with the s3 until I lose my hd comcast channels.


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## Badger Bob

Paw Paw said:


> To open a ticket call TiVo Support at 877-367-8486. I have had much better success that way. The online system looks like it just gets you a generic computer generated response. At least that was my result.
> 
> If you have a 652/658 and are calling about the Mpeg4 issue; TiVo, Comcast and Cisco are all actively working on this since it has impact on multiple locations (Houston, Minneapolis and maybe Philadelphia). Adding your concerns to the list wouldn't hurt. The more they realize how many clients are impacted the harder they might work the issue.


Paw Paw, how do you know comcast is working on this. I spoke to a high level tech support person last night (escalated three times over several days). He did not know about the issues in Minneapolis. Do you have a case number?


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## Paw Paw

I have been called by two different individuals with TiVo and sent them 3 diagnostic dumps per their request. I also received an Email from two TiVo technical support individuals indicating that the problem was being actively pursued. As to a ticket number I have 3 that appear to be open and refer to this problem. They are 06355311, 06356279 and 06368488. I think the last one probably superseded the first two but I am not sure.


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## Johnboy47

From Bloomington (Minneapolis), Minnesota. My problems started 11/17. 45 of my HD channels went blank. First call to Comcast 11/19 - went through the whole checkout process and then sent to TiVo tech. Went through the whole cable card checkout process - ended up with telling me my signal was to strong! Purchased signal attenuators - no fix! More HD channels going blank. Next call to TiVo support 12/5 - taken through the whole cable card process again - during the process tech goes to consult someone and comes back saying "it sounds like you have the Comcast MPEG4 streams not viewable on HD problem". I said What!! She then said "I will forward problem to Comcast and TiVo. They are working on it and you will have to wait tell they fix it." I was a little bewildered - didn't have any idea what she was talking about. Sent me email with couple of attachments talking about the problem with case number 06431474 on it. Started internet search and found this forum - I now know the situation as put forth here. I have a model 652 TiVo with the 11.0n software upgrade that is not displaying the converted MPEG2 to MPEG4 channels. My first question to someone in the Minneapolis area - did you receive anything in the mail from Comcast that the conversion was happening? I cannot find anything on Comcast website of this happening. Just the few mentions here that has probably happened. It sounds like we are at the mercy of TiVo to fix this. So here is one more case. I will be watching this forum daily for any news. Let's hope this doesn't take to long for them to figure it out and give us a fix.


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## karpodiem

Paw Paw said:


> I have been called by two different individuals with TiVo and sent them 3 diagnostic dumps per their request. I also received an Email from two TiVo technical support individuals indicating that the problem was being actively pursued. As to a ticket number I have 3 that appear to be open and refer to this problem. They are 06355311, 06356279 and 06368488. I think the last one probably superseded the first two but I am not sure.


Thanks for the heads up, glad they are reaching out to people and looking at it.


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## ScottMN

Good news - there is a fix pending. I just heard back from the Tivo engineering VP asking for my TSN. I hope to get an early version to test out. Stay tuned.


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## kpasha

ScottMN said:


> Good news - there is a fix pending. I just heard back from the Tivo engineering VP asking for my TSN. I hope to get an early version to test out. Stay tuned.


3 thumbs up!


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## Johnboy47

ScottMN I live in Bloomington. Thanks for the update. Did someone actually tell you Comcast did the conversion from MPEG2 to MPEG4? I cannot find any where that it actually happened. I have a 652 model TiVo waiting for some kind of fix. Did they give you any time line to the fix? Also did they happen to mention how many people or units this is affecting in the Twin Cities area? Thanks again for the update.


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## worachj

Johnboy47 said:


> ScottMN I live in Bloomington. Thanks for the update. Did someone actually tell you Comcast did the conversion from MPEG2 to MPEG4? I cannot find any where that it actually happened. I have a 652 model TiVo waiting for some kind of fix. Did they give you any time line to the fix? Also did they happen to mention how many people or units this is affecting in the Twin Cities area? Thanks again for the update.


In Eagan, I'm on the St. Paul Comcast system. All my HD local channels are still mpeg2, but all the other HD channels are now mpeg4 (h.264). I received several notices over the last year stating they were upgrading their system and that devices with cable cards and your TiVo may no longer work.


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## rocketscientist

ScottMN said:


> Good news - there is a fix pending. I just heard back from the Tivo engineering VP asking for my TSN. I hope to get an early version to test out. Stay tuned.


Awesome! I have been without most cable HD channels for almost a month now here in Houston (NASA area). I would be happy to try out the fix here for my area on my 652 series unit!


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## ScottMN

I was just pushed a .K1 software update by one of the Tivo engineers as an early test (11.0n.K1-01-2-652). My HD channels are back. Channel changing seems slightly slower but no big deal. I do see some compression artifacts on some channels, like the Simpsons on FXX-HD. Hang in there folks, a wider fix for everyone is coming. There is nothing that Comcast can do to help you. You need a software patch from Tivo when it is available to everyone.


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## ScottMN

Early failures connecting to the network on the new software. My other units are working fine. Still troubleshooting. But all my HD channels are back so definitely progress. It's just not ready for a general software release yet. I'll ask my contact if they want additional testers to post here.


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## Mike Richardson

ScottMN said:


> I was just pushed a .K1 software update by one of the Tivo engineers as an early test (11.0n.K1-01-2-652). My HD channels are back. Channel changing seems slightly slower but no big deal. I do see some compression artifacts on some channels, like the Simpsons on FXX-HD. Hang in there folks, a wider fix for everyone is coming. There is nothing that Comcast can do to help you. You need a software patch from Tivo when it is available to everyone.


Is there any way I could get this software as a test, or is it coming out really soon? Maybe a case number I can refer to them? I have been a Comcast customer since November 1st and I have literally never received my entire package of channels on this TiVo due to the problems.


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## ScottMN

Network updates are working now. No change to the .K1 test software, must have been a glitch after the update. It's working for me 100% now.



Mike Richardson said:


> Is there any way I could get this software as a test, or is it coming out really soon? Maybe a case number I can refer to them? I have been a Comcast customer since November 1st and I have literally never received my entire package of channels on this TiVo due to the problems.


I forwarded this thread to the engineers letting them know there are plenty of volunteers here who would love to test the software too. I don't want to post their info directly unless they ask me to. The only thing I could suggest is calling Tivo support and asking for a early copy of the .K1 software (11.0n.K1-01-2-652) coming from Tivo engineering to be pushed to your box. You will need to supply them with your TSN. More likely than not the customer support staff will have no idea what you are talking about though.


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## jalind

I'm a latecomer to this thread, having just now today encountered the Comcast MPEG4 issue in Kokomo, IN. I have three TiVo boxes:
#1 is a series 4 Premiere XL,
#2 is a series 3 HD XL (658), and
#3 is a Series 3 HD (648).
All of them had a software update rolled out recently. IIRC it was some time in late November or near the beginning of this month. Quite a few HD channels here have been rolled over to MPEG4. I found out when accessing TiVo #3 that isn't used very often in the spare bedroom and finding nearly all of the HD channels black (e.g. IFC, MGM-HD, TCM-HD, SyFy, CNN). Just about the only HD that weren't black screen were the local Indianapolis ABC, CBS, NBC, FX, CW, and PBS broadcast stations. I immediately checked the other two TiVos and neither of them had any problem with any HD channels.

Called Comcast and was on the phone with their CableCard tech support for over an hour. That's how I discovered the MPEG4 incompatibility. What threw the guy at Comcast off track was the series 3 TiVo HD XL 658 working perfectly. Not all the HD channels had been converted to MPEG4 here. The working ones were still MPEG2 encoded. Finally found the notice on the TiVo site. The software for the 652 and 658 series 3 has been fixed. The software for the oldest series 3 model, the 648 "Series 3 HD" hasn't been and according to TiVo it won't be. Software versions:
#2 658 box (TiVo HD XL): 11.0n.H1-01-2-658
#3 648 box (Series 3 HD): 11.0n.H1-01-2-648
I presume from their software version numbering that a 652 "TiVo HD" would end in 652. If you have this software version on a 652 or 658 it should have no problem with MPEG4 encoded HD channels.

Looked at series 4 and series 5 boxes with lifetime subscriptions on Weaknees and then called TiVo as the MPEG4 notice on their site said to call tech support for a discount on a new box. I've got a refurbished Premiere XL with 1TB drive and lifetime subscription on the way from TiVo for a discounted price substantially less than the same from Weaknees. The 648 box is getting shipped to my brother in North Carolina who cut the cable and only watches OTA broadcast TV and Blu-ray movies and I'll transfer its lifetime subscription to him. He'll be able to use it without any problem. With three TiVo boxes in three rooms, and gigabit home LAN I don't need a 4 or 6 tuner box. I can simply record what I want to on any of the six available tuners and transfer the recordings around at will.

I tried recording one of the "black screen" HD channels on the 648 box and got nothing when I stopped recording the channel. However, I recorded the same channel for several minutes on the other two TiVos, and was able to transfer their MPEG4 channel recordings to the 648 box and play them with no problem. Found that to be very, very interesting. I can start recording a program on the series 4 or 658 series 3, go to the 648 box and start a transfer of it 15 or so minutes later, and watch it while it's transferring. This does require a gigabit LAN for near realtime HD video streaming without having hiccups. A slow WiFi network cannot transfer fast enough. Using that as a workaround until the Premiere XL arrives Monday, after which I'll have plenty of fun transferring all the stuff off of the 648 box so I can completely reset it to "factory" and ship it to my brother.

Thought I would pass on my experience today regarding Comcast's MPEG4 rollout here, with details about what's working and what's not working.

John


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## ScottMN

Your 648 will not work with MPEG4 ever (box #3). There are no decoders inside the box for MPEG4 so software patches from Tivo will do nothing. It still has value for OTA, SD, and non-MPEG4 channels though. I suggest you put it up for sale on eBay for someone else who can find a use for it. Or take advantage of a discount from Tivo on a new box. Or both.

Newer series 4 and up have no issues whatsoever with MPEG4 (ie. your Premier box #1).

The 652/658 are supposed to support MPEG4 with the .H1 software (box #2). Most of the USA is seeing MPEG4 correctly with these boxes and the .H1 software, which is the latest released software from Tivo. It's not clear from your description above but it looks like you fall into this category - your box #2 works correctly with the MPEG4 channels and the .H1 software.

The most recent issues seem to be isolated to Houston, Minneapolis, and perhaps Philadelphia. These markets have MPEG4 black screens and no sound on 652/658 and the .H1 software whereas the rest of the country sees the MPEG4 channels fine with the 652/658 and the .H1 software. Tivo and Comcast are actively working on it and Tivo will release another software update to fix these issues. I have an early unreleased version .K1 in the Minneapolis market and it fixed it for me (consider me a beta tester). I sure the .K1 or a even newer version will be pushed out to a wider audience soon as a general release.


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## Wil

ScottMN said:


> Your 648 will not work with MPEG4 ever (box #3). There are no decoders inside the box for MPEG4 so software patches from Tivo will do nothing.


You are correct to the extent that Tivo has not activated the capability of the 648 to receive mpeg4 channels. The "patches" for the model HD, essentially just turning the existing capability back on, won't work as written for the original series 3 and several hours of new actual coding would be required (mostly address changes), too monumental a task for the new Tivo to undertake.


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## jalind

ScottMN said:


> Your 648 will not work with MPEG4 ever (box #3). There are no decoders inside the box for MPEG4 so software patches from Tivo will do nothing. It still has value for OTA, SD, and non-MPEG4 channels though. I suggest you put it up for sale on eBay for someone else who can find a use for it. Or take advantage of a discount from Tivo on a new box. Or both.
> 
> Newer series 4 and up have no issues whatsoever with MPEG4 (ie. your Premier box #1).
> 
> The 652/658 are supposed to support MPEG4 with the .H1 software (box #2). Most of the USA is seeing MPEG4 correctly with these boxes and the .H1 software, which is the latest released software from Tivo. It's not clear from your description above but it looks like you fall into this category - your box #2 works correctly with the MPEG4 channels and the .H1 software.
> 
> The most recent issues seem to be isolated to Houston, Minneapolis, and perhaps Philadelphia. These markets have MPEG4 black screens and no sound on 652/658 and the .H1 software whereas the rest of the country sees the MPEG4 channels fine with the 652/658 and the .H1 software. Tivo and Comcast are actively working on it and Tivo will release another software update to fix these issues. I have an early unreleased version .K1 in the Minneapolis market and it fixed it for me (consider me a beta tester). I sure the .K1 or a even newer version will be pushed out to a wider audience soon as a general release.


That's exactly it. The 648 will never work. The 658 and Premiere XL work perfectly with all HD channels. FWIW, all the cable cards in all my boxes are Motorola, one of the questions that asked and verified by Comcast CableCard tech when I talked to them. Don't know if this page from TiVo's support site has been posted or not (I didn't read all 14 pages of postings) but it makes clear the 648 versus 652/658 situation if you scroll down to the bottom. The list of affected cities is way out of date (mine isn't even listed).
https://support.tivo.com/articles/Features_Use/Comcast-Transitioning-to-MPEG4-in-Select-Markets

Regarding the 648 box, TiVo shipped a 1TB Premiere XL to me today . . . free plus $350 for lifetime (plus sales tax) with free shipping. I'll have it on Monday. Since my #1 box is the same exact model (748) and I've no desire to go to a Roamio or Bolt at this point, that's a price I couldn't pass by. By comparison Weaknees is selling 748 Premiere XL refurbs with 1TB and lifetime for $599. The 648 box would go to ePrey, but my brother took the offer I made him on it. He ditched cable long ago and only watches OTA, Hulu, DVDs and Blu-rays. I'll transfer the lifetime on it to him and he'll be able to record plenty of OTA HD programs as it has a 1TB drive in it. I'll also get $5 a month dropped from my bill as the 648 has two multi-stream CableCards in it and I can give one of them back to Comcast, one of the oddities about the 648's, single stream CableCard slots.

John


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## HerronScott

ScottMN said:


> Your 648 will not work with MPEG4 ever (box #3). There are no decoders inside the box for MPEG4 so software patches from Tivo will do nothing.


Just to qualify this as it's partially incorrect. The original S3 OLED (648) does have MPEG4 decoders but TiVo never developed the software that would allow them to be used to record/playback cable channels broadcast in MPEG4 so you are correct that they will never work with cable MPEG4 channels (I recall that they could play MPEG4 content that was pushed to them).

S3 OLED (648) CPU/decoder
Broadcom BCM7038 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2 decoder
Broadcom BCM7411 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 and VC-1/WMV9 decoder

HD (652/658) CPU/decoder
Broadcom BCM7401 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1/WMV9 decoder

Scott


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## jalind

HerronScott said:


> Just to qualify this as it's partially incorrect. The original S3 OLED (648) does have MPEG4 decoders but TiVo never developed the software that would allow them to be used to record/playback cable channels broadcast in MPEG4 so you are correct that they will never work with cable MPEG4 channels (I recall that they could play MPEG4 content that was pushed to them).
> 
> S3 OLED (648) CPU/decoder
> Broadcom BCM7038 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2 decoder
> Broadcom BCM7411 MPEG-4 AVC/H.264 and VC-1/WMV9 decoder
> 
> HD (652/658) CPU/decoder
> Broadcom BCM7401 system-on-a-chip, including the MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, and VC-1/WMV9 decoder
> 
> Scott


This might explain then how I was able to transfer an MPEG4 channel program recorded on the Premiere XL to the 648 box and play it without any problem, but could not record the same program on the 648 box. Interesting that the CODECs are there but were not implemented in the system software. Not that surprising though is TiVo not putting forth much effort on the series three boxes considering they're up to series six now, although there's good reason some of us have never replaced them as they kept churning away without any problems . . . perhaps, a fan replacement or two . . . but those seem to have gotten much more reliable along with the hard drives.

John


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## larswet

Transition started in New Mexico (Albuquerque area) about a month ago and I no longer can view most HD channels from Xfinity. 
I have a 652 TiVo-HD box and am waiting for the patch to be released too. 
Watching this thread in case someone else hears anything before TiVo emails me on case# 06415543

quote below from chat last week:
Gage (10:12:25 AM):I now can confidently say this is a software issue. We are working on resolving this issue with the Series Three's not getting those MPEG-4 channels for some customer, however we do not have a time frame for resolution for this reason unfortunately. Please know however that I have associated your case number today (06415543) to the known issue in my system. This means you will get priority for our software fix to this issue as well as email notification as soon as we put that out.

Me (10:12:43 AM):thank you 

Me (10:14:48 AM):should I get a comcast box until you have a software fix? upgrade to a newer tivo? just wait as you should have it fixed in a couple of days?  

Gage (10:15:34 AM):I do not have a time frame and cannot put a date on that resolution, because I have no idea honestly. They have not found a solution at this point, but are still working on the problem. I am confident we are going to have this resolved so I would advise waiting until then. You can always use a DVR from your provider or upgrade your DVR. If you do want to upgrade, I would strongly recommend calling our phone support as they have the ability to look into promotions and/or discounts. They can be reached at 1-877-289-8486.


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## jalind

I will find the appropriate area and thread to post more details as more than this basic information wouldn't be appropriate here . . .

FYI:
For those like me who are still using the long abandoned TiVo Desktop software to download recordings onto a PC, among the other trials and tribulations with Comcast's MPEG4 rollout, TiVo Desktop must have the "Use Fastest Speed" option checked in the file preferences to properly download anything recorded. If it's not, you'll only get a much smaller file than expected, by an entire order of magnitude, which only contains the audio stream. Set the "Fastest Speed" option in the program's file preferences and you'll get the audio and video streams in a file just a hair smaller than the TiVo reports it's using on the TiVo's drive. It will still have a .tivo file extension, and all recordings from an MPEG4 channel will be an MPEG4 in the .tivo wrapper. I can play the downloaded ".tivo" video in the Win7 Windows Media Player.

John


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## jalind

larswet said:


> Transition started in New Mexico (Albuquerque area) about a month ago and I no longer can view most HD channels from Xfinity.
> I have a 652 TiVo-HD box and am waiting for the patch to be released too.
> Watching this thread in case someone else hears anything before TiVo emails me on case# 06415543


What software version is your 652 running? It will be in your TiVo's System Information page.

John


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## karpodiem

ScottMN said:


> I was just pushed a .K1 software update by one of the Tivo engineers as an early test (11.0n.K1-01-2-652). My HD channels are back. Channel changing seems slightly slower but no big deal. I do see some compression artifacts on some channels, like the Simpsons on FXX-HD. Hang in there folks, a wider fix for everyone is coming. There is nothing that Comcast can do to help you. You need a software patch from Tivo when it is available to everyone.


I think the 652160 is probably my most favorite piece of electronic hardware I've ever owned. It's a beast - this thing just will not die. It just keeps getting better. Thank you, TiVO!


----------



## TiVoMargret

TiVo has just issued a limited patch release to the TiVo HD boxes in several affected Comcast markets. (In general, ones with Cisco CableCARDs.) Boxes should be downloading and upgrading to the patch release over the next few days.

If you want to accelerate the update to your box, you can force a service connection, confirm a resulting “Pending Restart” status, and then reboot the box manually.

However, BEWARE that the reboot will often require as long as 2-3 hours or so to complete the associated software upgrade. Do not reboot unless you are sure there is nothing you want to record or watch for several more hours.


----------



## jalind

karpodiem said:


> I think the 652160 is probably my most favorite piece of electronic hardware I've ever owned. It's a beast - this thing just will not die. It just keeps getting better. Thank you, TiVO!


The nearly identical 658 TiVo HD XL with 1TB drive is one of my favorites and it just keeps churning away, now in the master bedroom, as a secondary recording platform and much better than Comcast's box for the TV there. Bought it with a lifetime when TiVo first released them. I'm sad the 648 wasn't updated for the MPEG4, but grateful the 658 has been.

John


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## HerronScott

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo has just issued a limited patch release to the TiVo HD boxes in several affected Comcast markets. (In general, ones with Cisco CableCARDs.) Boxes should be downloading and upgrading to the patch release over the next few days.
> 
> If you want to accelerate the update to your box, you can force a service connection, confirm a resulting "Pending Restart" status, and then reboot the box manually.
> 
> However, BEWARE that the reboot will often require as long as 2-3 hours or so to complete the associated software upgrade. Do not reboot unless you are sure there is nothing you want to record or watch for several more hours.


Thanks Margret for the support and posting here. I don't suppose you can pass on what the issue was with the Comcast MPEG4 configuration and the HD's in these regions for those of that have a technical interest? 

Scott


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## MissLynn

Margret, I hope the Houston area is getting this patch!


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## karpodiem

Small request - can anyone in an H.264 market who is able to tune in channels use TiVo Desktop or KMTTG (kmttg) of a 30 second clip from a local unencrypted (ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox) channel?

Just curious how VideoRedo (program that is able to cut out commercials) handles these files.


----------



## rocketscientist

TiVoMargret said:


> TiVo has just issued a limited patch release to the TiVo HD boxes in several affected Comcast markets. (In general, ones with Cisco CableCARDs.) Boxes should be downloading and upgrading to the patch release over the next few days.
> 
> If you want to accelerate the update to your box, you can force a service connection, confirm a resulting "Pending Restart" status, and then reboot the box manually.
> 
> However, BEWARE that the reboot will often require as long as 2-3 hours or so to complete the associated software upgrade. Do not reboot unless you are sure there is nothing you want to record or watch for several more hours.


IT WORKS!!  I forced the patch to install overnight as Margret suggested and after a very very long restart and update process (several hours) I HAVE MY HD CHANNELS BACK!! Yipee!! I am in Houston, south of the city in the Clear Lake around NASA. So far things seem to work OK, but I haven't had a chance to fully check things out yet. I did notice right away that it does seem to take longer to tune in a channel that is MPEG4 as the Beta tester pointed out.

I would also like to request that TIVO post here (or at least tell us where) some more info about what caused this problem and what had to be done to address it. Being an Engineer I really want to know! Also, some of us have been without HD channels for a month or more and I would think a short technical explanation would be warranted, like explaining what made Comcast in our areas different than other areas, etc.


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## HerronScott

karpodiem said:


> Small request - can anyone in an H.264 market who is able to tune in channels use TiVo Desktop or KMTTG (kmttg) of a 30 second clip from a local unencrypted (ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox) channel?
> 
> Just curious how VideoRedo (program that is able to cut out commercials) handles these files.


Your question is a little confusing since Comcast is not moving the broadcast channels you indicated to MPEG4. Also the HD cannot transfer an MPEG4 show to a PC via TiVo Desktop or other PC application like kmttg as they did not update that portion of the HD software to support TS transfers (since you've posted in the Series 3 forum I assume you are referring to an HD model).

Now for a Premiere, Roamio or Bolt you can transfer one of the MPEG4 recorded shows and VideoRedo TVSuite should have no problem with editing them.

Scott


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## jalind

ScottMN said:


> I was just pushed a .K1 software update by one of the Tivo engineers as an early test (11.0n.K1-01-2-652). My HD channels are back. Channel changing seems slightly slower but no big deal. I do see some compression artifacts on some channels, like the Simpsons on FXX-HD. Hang in there folks, a wider fix for everyone is coming. There is nothing that Comcast can do to help you. You need a software patch from Tivo when it is available to everyone.


The compression artifacts are nothing new. I observed them over 10 years ago when Comcast first started rolling out HDTV channels. I had a QAM tuner in a PC that could pick up the local broadcast station channels (the FCC prohibits them from being encrypted). Stills made from frames of recorded programs clearly show the compression. In addition recorded transport stream file sizes could not have been as small as they were if not for substantial compression. Bottom line is if you're thinking you're getting HDTV in all its glory on cable, guess again. It's nowhere near what you get on a Blu-ray with a good digital transfer made from the movie film (watch Inception on Blu-ray some time). Some of the worst has been real time college football and NFL games . . . most likely the network using compression on their real time satellite feed from a stadium compounded by the cable company. I will be looking at some recent TiVo MPEG4 HD recordings including their file sizes to see if its compression artifact severity has increased.

John


----------



## jalind

karpodiem said:


> Small request - can anyone in an H.264 market who is able to tune in channels use TiVo Desktop or KMTTG (kmttg) of a 30 second clip from a local unencrypted (ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox) channel?
> 
> Just curious how VideoRedo (program that is able to cut out commercials) handles these files.


VideoReDo Plus cannot handle H.264, only MPEG2. Been there, done that - you get an error message stating the software cannot handle H.264 encoded streams (which is a form of MPEG4, not MPEG2). Upgraded my VideoReDo Plus last night to the VideoReDo TVSuite v5 which can handle the H.264 streams. Did an experiment with a movie recorded Dec 4th from AMC-HD and was able to use their TVSuite to do with it exactly what I had been with VideoReDo Plus to make an mp4 file without the commercials. You have to experiment a bit with the mp4 output parameters to select the configuration that doesn't do any transcoding. Their TVSuite is much more powerful with many transcoding options for various devices. VideoReDo offers a good discount for those who own VideoReDo Plus to upgrade to their TVSuite.

You have to download the recordings from the TiVo using "fastest method" if you're using TiVo Desktop, an option setting in the program. IIRC, if you log directly into the TiVo you have to ask for the transport stream, not the program stream. The wrong one will only get you only the audio in a small file that's about 1/10th the size you'd expect it to be.

John


----------



## jalind

HerronScott said:


> Your question is a little confusing since Comcast is not moving the broadcast channels you indicated to MPEG4. Also the HD cannot transfer an MPEG4 show to a PC via TiVo Desktop or other PC application like kmttg as they did not update that portion of the HD software to support TS transfers (since you've posted in the Series 3 forum I assume you are referring to an HD model).
> 
> Now for a Premiere, Roamio or Bolt you can transfer one of the MPEG4 recorded shows and VideoRedo TVSuite should have no problem with editing them.
> 
> Scott


I just tried a couple experiments and it appears this is correct. Tried using TiVo Desktop to get a quick recording of a piece of an IFC movie from an HD XL using both transfer speed settings. Only got the audio. Also logged in directly to the HD XL by web browser and asked for the file. Same result; only the audio.

John


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## MissLynn

What are the steps to force a service connection?


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## Paw Paw

MissLynn said:


> What are the steps to force a service connection?


 Navigate to Settings & Messages >> Settings >> Phone and Network, Connect to the TiVo service.

Remember it will take several hours to download ( you can still use your TiVo while the download takes place in the background) and then about 3 hours to install after you do a reset and for those 3 hours the box is unavailable


----------



## MissLynn

Thanks, paw paw. I'm not at home so I wanted to make sure I would be able to try and connect to the service when I get home late tonight.


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## jalind

One additional phenomenon I discovered tonight that is NOT related to the Comcast MPEG4 - after thinking it another symptom of the problem. I have three boxes, a 748 series 4 Premiere XL, a 658 HD-XL, and a 648 Series 3 HD. Multi-room viewing has never been an issue before, moving recordings without the cci flag set at will between the three. Nearly always it was moving something from the series 4 to one of the series 3 as they're in bedrooms.

Now I cannot access either of the series 3 from the series 4 Premiere XL. They show up, along with all the PCs running Tivo Desktop with the server turned on, but when I try to access them I get a C423 error. The oddity is both series 3 being able to access the other series 3 and the series 4 Premiere XL and transfer files from either one. Called TiVo tech support and discovered this is not related to the Comcast MPEG4 issue. It has to do with a different software update rolled out very recently to the series 4, 5 and 6 that broke the multi-room recording transfer feature in them . . . and happened to occur on top of many of use encountering the Comcast MPEG4 issues.

More on the C423 problem is here:
Bolt can no longer see Tivo HD box (C423 error)

Edit:
Yet more . . . plus a workaround . . . set menus on the series 4 or newer to SD and they can access the series 3 boxes to do transfers again.

Troubleshooting C423 error

John


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## jalind

ScottMN said:


> I was just pushed a .K1 software update by one of the Tivo engineers as an early test (11.0n.K1-01-2-652). My HD channels are back. Channel changing seems slightly slower but no big deal. I do see some compression artifacts on some channels, like the Simpsons on FXX-HD. Hang in there folks, a wider fix for everyone is coming. There is nothing that Comcast can do to help you. You need a software patch from Tivo when it is available to everyone.


One additional note on the MPEG4 HD channels. In comparing some recordings done before they started rolling over from MPEG2 to MPEG4, the MPEG2 are 1080i. The MPEG4 channels in my area are 720p. Started scrolling down from IFC through MGM-HD, AMC-HD, ENCORE, plus a dozen more, and they're all 720p now. Could also explain why some artifacts are more visible as either the TiVo or your TV is having to upscale the 720p to 1080(i or p depending on settings) for your 1080p TV set. That *will* accentuate and exacerbate any existing artifacts in the transport stream.

John


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## jalind

HerronScott said:


> Your question is a little confusing since Comcast is not moving the broadcast channels you indicated to MPEG4. Also the HD cannot transfer an MPEG4 show to a PC via TiVo Desktop or other PC application like kmttg as they did not update that portion of the HD software to support TS transfers (since you've posted in the Series 3 forum I assume you are referring to an HD model).
> 
> Now for a Premiere, Roamio or Bolt you can transfer one of the MPEG4 recorded shows and VideoRedo TVSuite should have no problem with editing them.
> 
> Scott


I found a workaround for this tonight . . . after finding another workaround for the C423 error. For those that have a series four Premiere or newer (Roamio or Bolt) on their network, transfer the MPEG4 recording from the series three to the Premiere, Roamio or Bolt, and then download the recording from the newer series box. Just verified that this works tonight with a short MPEG4 clip recorded on the series three HD-XL. Had to set menus in the Premiere XL from HD to SD temporarily to access the HD-XL (HD vs SD menus is in the Display settings; another issue TiVo is fixing). Transferred the MPEG4 clip, and downloaded it from the Premiere XL using TiVo Desktop with the "fastest transfer speed" option set (File-->Preferences from program menu).

John


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## HerronScott

jalind said:


> I found a workaround for this tonight . . . after finding another workaround for the C423 error. For those that have a series four Premiere or newer (Roamio or Bolt) on their network, transfer the MPEG4 recording from the series three to the Premiere, Roamio or Bolt, and then download the recording from the newer series box. Just verified that this works tonight with a short MPEG4 clip recorded on the series three HD-XL. Had to set menus in the Premiere XL from HD to SD temporarily to access the HD-XL (HD vs SD menus is in the Display settings; another issue TiVo is fixing). Transferred the MPEG4 clip, and downloaded it from the Premiere XL using TiVo Desktop with the "fastest transfer speed" option set (File-->Preferences from program menu).


John,

Correct this does work for those HD users that also have a newer model TiVo (well it will work again for Roamio, Bolt and Premiere HD menu users once TiVo resolves the C423 error introduced with 20.6.3).

Scott


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## HerronScott

jalind said:


> One additional note on the MPEG4 HD channels. In comparing some recordings done before they started rolling over from MPEG2 to MPEG4, the MPEG2 are 1080i. The MPEG4 channels in my area are 720p. Started scrolling down from IFC through MGM-HD, AMC-HD, ENCORE, plus a dozen more, and they're all 720p now. Could also explain why some artifacts are more visible as either the TiVo or your TV is having to upscale the 720p to 1080(i or p depending on settings) for your 1080p TV set. That *will* accentuate and exacerbate any existing artifacts in the transport stream.


John,

This has been discussed extensively here.

Busted! Comcast Down-Converts native 1080i Channels to 720P!!!

Scott


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## karpodiem

jalind said:


> VideoReDo Plus cannot handle H.264, only MPEG2. Been there, done that - you get an error message stating the software cannot handle H.264 encoded streams (which is a form of MPEG4, not MPEG2). Upgraded my VideoReDo Plus last night to the VideoReDo TVSuite v5 which can handle the H.264 streams. Did an experiment with a movie recorded Dec 4th from AMC-HD and was able to use their TVSuite to do with it exactly what I had been with VideoReDo Plus to make an mp4 file without the commercials. You have to experiment a bit with the mp4 output parameters to select the configuration that doesn't do any transcoding. Their TVSuite is much more powerful with many transcoding options for various devices. VideoReDo offers a good discount for those who own VideoReDo Plus to upgrade to their TVSuite.
> 
> You have to download the recordings from the TiVo using "fastest method" if you're using TiVo Desktop, an option setting in the program. IIRC, if you log directly into the TiVo you have to ask for the transport stream, not the program stream. The wrong one will only get you only the audio in a small file that's about 1/10th the size you'd expect it to be.
> 
> John


what kind of bitrate are you seeing on the H.264 channels?


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## MissLynn

Last night I forced a service connection and this morning I find my Tivo has been updated to 11.ON.K1 and my channels are working.


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## jalind

karpodiem said:


> what kind of bitrate are you seeing on the H.264 channels?


Just did a quick calculation for the average of an AMC-HD MPEG4. Storage size of the .tivo file on my hard drive when downloaded from the TiVo:
4,514,178 kB (1024 Bytes per kB)
36,980,146,176 bits (the kB size * 1024 * 8)

The stream's run length, as measured by VDR TVSuite:
2:46:40 which comes out to (amazingly)
(2*60+46)*60+40 = 10,000 seconds.

Divide the number of bits by the run time in seconds:
3.698 Mbps for the .tivo file.

Pulled it into VRD TVSuite and looked at the program info. Cannot go by header which gives 20 Mbps. It reports a H.264 video bit rate of 3.181 Mbps and audio (5.1 AC3) at the common 384 kbps. Add the two together: 3.565 Mbps which is is the same ballpark as my calculation of the .tivo file based on its reported storage size (which will be larger than actual because of drive sector allocation) and its run time in seconds. Close enough for your question: 3.5 - 3.7 Mbps. IMHO, that's a low bit rate for HD content, even H.264.

John


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## kpasha

Great news from Katy- West Houston. Performed the K version software update as described to my 652 and all back to normal with the HD channels. Thanks to all the posters that worked with TiVo/ Comcast and raised awareness on the issue to make this happen.


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## rocketscientist

So as I reported above my channels are working now here in Houston, but WATCH OUT COMCAST HAS REDUCED THE RESOLUTION OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!! Channels that used to be 1024i are now all 720P. If you google it, it seems this is Comcast trying to reduce their bandwidth in conjunction with the MPEG4 transition. I suspect and wonder if the problem we were having had something to do with that change also??? The channels that continued to work during the MPG4 transition outage fixed by the K1 patch that have stayed MPEG2 apparently are also the ones that still show up as 1024i. So apparently for Comcast, MPEG4 = 720P....:-( I can see a reduction is sharpness, especially when I compare previously recorded shows to what I get now on same channel...

See this thread, and you won't believe the posting from a comcast rep....

Comcast downgrading all 1080i HD channels to 720p - Xfinity Help and Support Forums


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## Paw Paw

You are correct that everything Comcast converted to Mpeg4 they also converted to 720p. That allowed them to squeeze one more channel onto 6Mhz of bandwidth. (Don't you just love it).

However many of the non local channels that were not converted were already 720p (All ESPN and Sports channels use 720p). I have heard that they were not converted because of contractual limits on bit rate.

So now you are watching many channels that started out 1080i and were converted to 720p by Comcast and the converted back to 1080 by your TiVo or TV. Yes I would expect some artifacts and other junk. All this and their monthly bill just keep going up and up. Higher cost and poorer quality equals fewer customers but I don't think they care. Content delivery is rapidly changing and in a few years will be totally different that what we have today (can you say streaming?).


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## jalind

rocketscientist said:


> So as I reported above my channels are working now here in Houston, but WATCH OUT COMCAST HAS REDUCED THE RESOLUTION OF EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!! Channels that used to be 1024i are now all 720P. If you google it, it seems this is Comcast trying to reduce their bandwidth in conjunction with the MPEG4 transition. I suspect and wonder if the problem we were having had something to do with that change also??? The channels that continued to work during the MPG4 transition outage fixed by the K1 patch that have stayed MPEG2 apparently are also the ones that still show up as 1024i. So apparently for Comcast, MPEG4 = 720P....:-( I can see a reduction is sharpness, especially when I compare previously recorded shows to what I get now on same channel...
> 
> See this thread, and you won't believe the posting from a comcast rep....
> 
> Comcast downgrading all 1080i HD channels to 720p - Xfinity Help and Support Forums


I did, and couldn't believe the techno-babble hogwash. In short, 720p/60 and 1080i/30 are *theoretically* equivalent with 100% lossless transport streams. In reality, the 720 must be upscaled by the STB or TV to fill the TV screen which amplifies compression artifacts. The most important difference is in how much compression is used and the video bit rate. Comcast ratcheted up the compression significantly along with the res reduction (i.e. it's lossier) with a low bit rate.

John


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## larswet

TiVo HD .K1 update received last night. I can now view MPEG 4 content !

THANK YOU TIVO !!!!


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## Wil

larswet said:


> TiVo HD .K1 update received last night.


I don't do cable any more myself, but I'm sure the new addressing would be appreciated at "the other place." Also an image, if anyone is willing to share.

Thanks


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## Johnboy47

Minneapolis - Received TiVo HD .K1 update Saturday. All HD channels back. Would like to thank all those involved at TiVo, Cisco and Comcast for finding and providing the fix for the problem we here in Minneapolis and Houston had with the .H1 MPEG4 update. Thanks again - long live TiVo HD!!


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## jalind

Joy for many with HD channels back - but . . .
Comcast has seriously degraded their HD channel picture quality! It's nothing to do with your TiVo box and the software updates. It has everything to do with Comcast's severe over-compression of the H.264 MPEG4 transport streams combined with downsizing the resolution from 1920x1080 (aka 1080) to 1280x720 (aka 720). Technically, by strict definition, it's still "HD" but it's nowhere near the PQ you had before. The biggest factor is not the H.264 MPEG4 encoding, it's the severe compression they're using with it taking the bit rate down so low that even DVDs have over 2x the bitrate in their VOB files (the MPEG2 video files on the disk) and Blu-ray m2ts files (the video files on the disk, typically in VC-1 or H.264) have over 7x the bitrate.

Now . . . if TiVo will move on to fixing the broken recording transfer in the series 4 and newer boxes that prevents them from accessing any series 3 (or older) boxes. The series 3 boxes show up correctly on the "Now Playing" list in a series 4 or newer (Preimere, Roamio, and Bolt) but return a C423 (network) error when it's selected to display its recordings. Those of us who upgraded the Series 3 648 boxes cannot transfer the recordings from them to the new box (TiVo is only fixing the 652 HD and 658 HD-XL, but not the 648).

John


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## jalind

Mike Richardson said:


> I do not get Last status: Pending Restart. It just says "Succeeded". So I am not getting any new software
> 
> the software is 11.0n.H1-01-2-652
> 
> I am using both cable and antenna, if that makes any difference. The cable is Comcast Houston.


Did you reboot or restart the TiVo box? You can do that from the menu system (a soft restart), or unplug the box, wait 30 second and plug it back in again (a hard restart).

John


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## Farmountain

I live in West Houston near beltway and also am not getting the K1 software update. I have done manual connections every day and they take about 1 minute. I also reboot almost every day to see if I missed seeing a notice for reboot.
On Saturday I asked in my support ticket to allow me the update, but they are either swamped or all already on vacation because I have not heard a thing from TiVo.
Bleh!


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## HerronScott

Doesn't seem like this has been pushed out to everyone yet as our HD hasn't received it (Comcast but not in one of the affected areas). I wonder if they've only pushed it to some of the HD's in the affected areas for testing?

Scott


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## mgowin

We just installed a 1080i Sony HDTV at home (replacing an ancient but still functional 4:3 picture tube TV--we're a bit behind the curve) and have Comcast in central IL. We have a 652 HD Tivo that we purchased with a lifetime subscription in 2009. All of the content we're getting is 480i. 

Will this K1 software update fix the issue with the low-res content we're seeing? Is there something else I need to investigate?


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## Paw Paw

mgowin said:


> We just installed a 1080i Sony HDTV at home (replacing an ancient but still functional 4:3 picture tube TV--we're a bit behind the curve) and have Comcast in central IL. We have a 652 HD Tivo that we purchased with a lifetime subscription in 2009. All of the content we're getting is 480i.
> 
> Will this K1 software update fix the issue with the low-res content we're seeing? Is there something else I need to investigate?


First make sure your TV is hooked up to the TiVo correctly and setup to send HD pictures to the TV. You must use either HDMI or Component cables to connect the TV to the TiVo. You must also setup the TiVo to send HD signals and not just 480i to the TV.

Once the TiVo is properly setup and connected you should display the HD content that you subscribe to from your cable provider. If you are using a Motorola CableCard in your TiVo the K1 update should not help you since it was just to fix Comcast customers who use the Cisco or S/A CableCards.


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## mgowin

Paw Paw said:


> First make sure your TV is hooked up to the TiVo correctly and setup to send HD pictures to the TV. You must use either HDMI or Component cables to connect the TV to the TiVo. You must also setup the TiVo to send HD signals and not just 480i to the TV.
> 
> Once the TiVo is properly setup and connected you should display the HD content that you subscribe to from your cable provider. If you are using a Motorola CableCard in your TiVo the K1 update should not help you since it was just to fix Comcast customers who use the Cisco or S/A CableCards.


Thanks for the reply, Paw Paw.

The TiVo video output format is set to 1080i Fixed and we have a HDMI cable running to the TV.

But we have a Motorola CableCard. So now what?


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## lpwcomp

mgowin said:


> We just installed a 1080i Sony HDTV at home (replacing an ancient but still functional 4:3 picture tube TV--we're a bit behind the curve) and have Comcast in central IL. We have a 652 HD Tivo that we purchased with a lifetime subscription in 2009. All of the content we're getting is 480i.
> 
> Will this K1 software update fix the issue with the low-res content we're seeing? Is there something else I need to investigate?


You must be watching/recording the SD channels. What is the s/w version of your TiVo?


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## mgowin

lpwcomp said:


> You must be watching/recording the SD channels. What is the s/w version of your TiVo?


Version 11.On.H1-01-2-652

I've been all over my Comcast account online but can't find anything that indicates whether our "Limited Basic" 10-channel TV package is SD or HD. We have a PBS kids program that's in the TiVo's HD Recordings folder but everything else that's recorded (all network TV shows) is in SD.


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## lpwcomp

mgowin said:


> Version 11.On.H1-01-2-652
> 
> I've been all over my Comcast account online but can't find anything that indicates whether our "Limited Basic" 10-channel TV package is SD or HD. We have a PBS kids program that's in the TiVo's HD Recordings folder but everything else that's recorded (all network TV shows) is in SD.


Should be both SD and HD. Go to Settings->Channels->Channel List and make sure you have the HD channels enabled.


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## lpwcomp

I do see reports of people having to call Comcast, sometimes multiple times, to get them to authorize access to the HD channels. If you do have to call, make sure they don't try to add an "HD Technology fee" to your account.


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## mgowin

lpwcomp said:


> Should be both SD and HD. Go to Settings->Channels->Channel List and make sure you have the HD channels enabled.


Just looked-I don't see a way to confirm whether the channels are SD or HD. I flipped through the stations using the Guide on the remote and found channels that supposedly aren't included in my package, but everything is showing in SD: the "official" channels included in my package as well as the others that aren't.

FWIW, DVDs display in HD as does content from our Amazon Fire TV Stick. And the TiVo graphics display in HD. So I know the TV works correctly


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## Paw Paw

mgowin said:


> Version 11.On.H1-01-2-652
> 
> I've been all over my Comcast account online but can't find anything that indicates whether our "Limited Basic" 10-channel TV package is SD or HD. We have a PBS kids program that's in the TiVo's HD Recordings folder but everything else that's recorded (all network TV shows) is in SD.


I doubt that the limited basic package contains any HD channels if there are any it would only be the local channels. I am afraid you will have to work this out with Comcast and I can assure you they will want to SELL you the HD channels. They do not give anything away.

The H1 software that you have on the TiVo should work for HD channels with a Motorola CableCard,

Do you have an antenna that can pickup anything? The 652 will also take an antenna feed and you might get some HD channels that way.


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## mgowin

Chatting with Comcast now—they'll add HD for an extra $10/month...

If I get an antenna and plug it into the TiVo, will it record programs from the antenna?


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## Paw Paw

mgowin said:


> Chatting with Comcast now-they'll add HD for an extra $10/month...
> 
> If I get an antenna and plug it into the TiVo, will it record programs from the antenna?


I have never done it but according to everything I have read it should record anything from an antenna. There is an antenna input next to the cable input on the back of the 652


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## mgowin

Paw Paw said:


> I have never done it but according to everything I have read it should record anything from an antenna. There is an antenna input next to the cable input on the back of the 652


Yep-I've seen the extra input. Think I'll head over to Wal-Mart and get an antenna.

Many thanks for the help.


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## lpwcomp

mgowin said:


> Chatting with Comcast now-they'll add HD for an extra $10/month...
> 
> If I get an antenna and plug it into the TiVo, will it record programs from the antenna?


That's what I was warning you about. They are full of it. You should be getting the HD locals at no extra cost.

Did you go into the TiVos channel list and make sure that the HD channels are enabled?


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## HerronScott

mgowin said:


> Version 11.On.H1-01-2-652
> 
> I've been all over my Comcast account online but can't find anything that indicates whether our "Limited Basic" 10-channel TV package is SD or HD. We have a PBS kids program that's in the TiVo's HD Recordings folder but everything else that's recorded (all network TV shows) is in SD.


You should have received a channel lineup from Comcast which shows you what channels you get with your package. Our latest one came in August.

I'm curious about your 10-channel Limited Basic package as our franchise has a Limited Basic package for $24.95 per month but it comes with 32 channels and 11 of those are in SD and HD (5 broadcast networks, PBS, QVC, HSN, EWTN, C-SPAN and C-SPAN2).

Scott


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## lpwcomp

mgowin said:


> Yep-I've seen the extra input. Think I'll head over to Wal-Mart and get an antenna.
> 
> Many thanks for the help.


Where are you located?


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## mgowin

HerronScott said:


> You should have received a channel lineup from Comcast which shows you what channels you get with your package. Our latest one came in August.
> 
> I'm curious about your 10-channel Limited Basic package as our franchise has a Limited Basic package for $24.95 per month but it comes with 32 channels and 11 of those are in SD and HD (5 broadcast networks, PBS, QVC, HSN, EWTN, C-SPAN and C-SPAN2).
> 
> Scott


We're on that same Limited Basic package. It says "10+" channels; I never looked at the channel lineup so I just assumed it had only 10 channels. Looks like it has more than I thought, and there are some HD broadcast channels as well.

Picked up a Terk Trinity antenna last night and set it up with the TiVo this morning. Unfortunately, I'm getting no signal (as in _zero_) for anything. Contacted Terk support; awaiting a response.

We're in central IL with access to stations in Springfield, Peoria, Decatur, Bloomington, and Champaign.


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## Paw Paw

You might want to investigate the sites AntennaWeb.org and TVfool.com. They deal with OTA antennas and show you what channels you can expect to receive and how much antenna you need. Also, you might try plugging the Terk directly into the TV and using the TV tuner to scan for channels just as an experiment.


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## lpwcomp

mgowin said:


> We're in central IL with access to stations in Springfield, Peoria, Decatur, Bloomington, and Champaign.


Go to Channel Lineup, change to your address, and it should tell you what channels you are supposed to be getting from Comcast.


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## mgowin

lpwcomp said:


> Go to Channel Lineup, change to your address, and it should tell you what channels you are supposed to be getting from Comcast.


Thanks-just found it this morning.


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## mgowin

Paw Paw said:


> You might want to investigate the sites AntennaWeb.org and TVfool.com. They deal with OTA antennas and show you what channels you can expect to receive and how much antenna you need. Also, you might try plugging the Terk directly into the TV and using the TV tuner to scan for channels just as an experiment.


Thanks-I checked a couple maps and we should be able to get a few stations here. Unfortunately, the stand on which the TV is mounted blocks the coax antenna input so I can't test the Terk antenna directly into the TV.


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## GeoX

New to the Tivo Forum. Getting back to my Tivo 3 HD after years of xfinity and now trying to catch up on this thread. 

Is the bottom line my 652 box with the H1 SW will be able to receive Comcast after it switches to MPEG-4 ? 

I am in the Chicago northern suburbs with Motorola Cable Cards and the HD channels are still working. 

Has Comcast already switched to MPEG-4 here and my 652 box does and will continue to work ?


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## HerronScott

GeoX said:


> New to the Tivo Forum. Getting back to my Tivo 3 HD after years of xfinity and now trying to catch up on this thread.
> 
> Is the bottom line my 652 box with the H1 SW will be able to receive Comcast after it switches to MPEG-4 ?
> 
> I am in the Chicago northern suburbs with Motorola Cable Cards and the HD channels are still working.
> 
> Has Comcast already switched to MPEG-4 here and my 652 box does and will continue to work ?


The answer is yes, the 652 will support MPEG-4. I believe Chicago has already switched to MPEG4 from the posts that I read here.

Scott


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## GeoX

Thank you for the confirmation.


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## HerronScott

Mike Richardson said:


> This is BS. Everyone else got the update and ditched the thread it seems. I have had this problem since November and I don't get any update. Who else can I e-mail at TiVo to force this update?


What version do you currently have and where are you located? Sounds like you might be in one of the Comcast areas (Houston and Minneapolis) that were having further issues with MPEG4 recordings not seen in other areas and needed an additional update/fix.

I'd e-mail TiVoMargret again explaining that you have an HD in one of the affected areas if that's that case and need the K1 update.

Scott


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## HerronScott

Mike Richardson said:


> It's resolved now, I should be getting the update.
> 
> Edit: Got pending restart! Guess I will leave it alone for a few hours and watch the X1 instead.


So how did you resolve getting the update?

Scott


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## Mike Richardson

removed


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## HerronScott

Mike Richardson said:


> Sent my TSN again to Margret. She was able to get it activated immediately.
> 
> The guide downloaded (had about an hour connection it seems), but didn't seem to actually fill in the guide. Would that be another reboot?
> 
> Somehow everything is still recording though.


No should not need another reboot, but perhaps another service connection and then allow time for the guide data to index (which can take a while on the older S3/HD).

Scott


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