# Hydra Update News



## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

From our friend @davezatz

TiVo Preps Significant System Enhancements


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

No live guide though? Disappointing.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

FINALLY HDMI_CEC!! I might finally be tempted to upgrade, but I'm still holding out hope HDMI_CEC will come to TE3. Anyone heard any word if they plan to backport it?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

CEC, folder play, both good.

Still no live guide or pc/dvr transfers? Bad.

If the "Series level" screen is the one I'm thinking of (where you look up a program and you have strips for OnePass options, Cast, All Episodes, Upcoming Episodes, etc), that's one of the worst offenders in Hydra and it can die in a fire. Curious to see what's different... Presumably back to list views?


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

Curious on what the timing will be.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I'm just confused. And why the John Deere cap? Will this version cut my grass too?


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## Barnstormer (Sep 23, 2015)

I hope it's a good update. As always I will be at least 6 weeks behind, just to make sure my old Roamio takes the update well.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If the "Series level" screen is the one I'm thinking of (where you look up a program and you have strips for OnePass options, Cast, All Episodes, Upcoming Episodes, etc), that's one of the worst offenders in Hydra and it can die in a fire. Curious to see what's different... Presumably back to list views?


More (vertical) lists, more grids!



JoeKustra said:


> I'm just confused. And why the John Deere cap? Will this version cut my grass too?


I like including images in my posts and reused a prior graphic. I mean the settings screen where you toggle on CEC is a pretty lame visual.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

davezatz said:


> I like including images in my posts and reused a prior graphic. I mean the settings screen where you toggle on CEC is a pretty lame visual.


No problem. But did you just indicate that this CEC stuff will be optional? I never use it, and I'm not sure of the effect. But if I can turn it off, it would be fine. Thanks for the update. We're an information wasteland around here. I guess I'll wait for the release notes (another joke).


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

I think for Tivo to stay relevant is to partner with, or create their own, ITV that the Tivo box can record from. I know that may not be the easiest thing in the world, but to add to that if they could manage a true a la carte system where we pay for only the channels we want it would be a huge selling point. Pay only for the channels you want, antenna for locals broadcasts, local storage, and stream from your device remotely would probably tempt a lot of people.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> No problem. But did you just indicate that this CEC stuff will be optional? I never use it, and I'm not sure of the effect. But if I can turn it off, it would be fine. Thanks for the update. We're an information wasteland around here. I guess I'll wait for the release notes (another joke).


It had better be optional. CEC is a pain in the butt. And I've learned how to use the strips. Oh, well.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Lists?!? Apparently Tivo fears change.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

With the rumored (or is it confirmed?) elimination of CableCARDs, I just hope TiVo can stay in business. I do NOT want to give up my TiVo for any cable equipment. I hear the X1 platform with Xfinity is good, but I love my TiVo.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

geekmedic said:


> With the rumored (or is it confirmed?) elimination of CableCARDs


I think CableCARDs days are numbered, but it's still a fairly high number. The cable companies still have millions of boxes out there with embedded cable cards and they can't switch over to full IPTV until those are replaced.

I'm looking at it the same way I look at ATSC 3. By they time it matters, the landscape of what's available is probably going to be completely different. It might make a difference for anything new I decide to buy, but I'm not worrying about replacing anything I have right now.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

It's been known for a while that folder play would be returning, so while it's not exactly news it remain a positive development. As for CEC, it can be useful and work well ... or not. So many variables and user configurations out there, it could be nightmare if it's not optional. 

The UI changes sound like a move in the right direction, but we'll have to see. I thought the episode strips would grow on me, but they never did. Anything that means I can spend less time navigating and more time watching is an improvement.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> No live guide though? Disappointing.


Tivo_Ted has made it pretty clear that Live Guide is really really REALLY far down the list of spending development time on.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

dianebrat said:


> Tivo_Ted has made it pretty clear that Live Guide is really really REALLY far down the list of spending development time on.


Yes, I recall that from his previous posts but wasn't sure if they are making substantial changes to this (as it sounds like they are) this might get added back in.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

TonyD79 said:


> It had better be optional. CEC is a pain in the butt.


Yup. My URC remote handles everything. Don't need CEC fouling things up.

CEC should be optional.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Thunderclap said:


> I think for Tivo to stay relevant is to partner with, or create their own, ITV that the Tivo box can record from. I know that may not be the easiest thing in the world, but to add to that if they could manage a true a la carte system where we pay for only the channels we want it would be a huge selling point. Pay only for the channels you want, antenna for locals broadcasts, local storage, and stream from your device remotely would probably tempt a lot of people.


Ala carte will lead to market rate pricing on channels, market rate usually means more expensive, channels will have to pay their way their own way. How many people want the same channels ? Be very careful what you wish for, once the door is open it may not close. Skinny bundles will be the future for most people and make economic sense.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tenthplanet said:


> Ala carte will lead to market rate pricing on channels, market rate usually means more expensive, channels will have to pay their way their own way. How many people want the same channels ? Be very careful what you wish for, once the door is open it may not close. Skinny bundles will be the future for most people and make economic sense.


Amen. Way off topic but the forays into individual channel streaming have already shown that the price goes up for individual content and also limits what you get to see. Even the skinny bundle streaming systems are building up to big bundles and similar prices.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Well - count me as somebody who would love to see an ala carte system shake itself out. The argument about higher prices for ala-carte always assumes that the prices would stay that way. ESPN would start out at some outrageous price -- subscriber numbers would move -- and ESPN would alter price accordingly. The smaller less-popular stations who are only surviving by being subsidized by more popular channels would (as they should) go away. I would like to see more wide-spread adoption of no networks whatsoever - with content being sold individually. I would purchase an NFL product and a half-dozen series that I follow at one time and be happy.

As a cord-cutter who was cord-cuttin' before it was cool (or even had the popular name) - it still irks me that these new streaming 'cord-cutters' usurped the name and do nothing but prop up the current pay-TV model. I read an article the other day about Dish laughing all the way to the bank with convincing people that still paying them a monthly bill with the only thing changing being the delivery model makes them 'cord-cutters'. At some point even Comcast will come out with a streaming bundle and 'cord-cutters' will lap it up, apparently. My only bright spot is that most of these streaming 'cord-cutters' are a bit older demographic and young people appear not interested (and apparently see it for what it is). I was hoping for an end to the current model within 10 - 15 years, but unfortunately the new streaming pay-TV model appears ready to prop up the existing model for the next 20 years. :-(


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

eherberg said:


> I read an article the other day about Dish laughing all the way to the bank with convincing people that still paying them a monthly bill with the only thing changing being the delivery model makes them 'cord-cutters'. (


Everything that I've read indicates that the profit margins on their streaming service is lower than on their traditional product, so Dish is merely replacing more profitable customers with less profitable ones. I doubt they're laughing about that in the board meetings.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Ultimately the only thing that will survive are money making services, share holders in companies will see to that. Don't fear the cable companies, fear the content providers they are the one with the real control. People may look back at these days as the golden age of cord cutting, the future is going to be messy, and expensive.


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## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

CEC never works for me. Always turns on when I wan it off or out of sync devices....


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

Whether or not CEC can be turned off at the TiVo, it should still be an option on the TV itself. All mine have it, but the option often has a wacky name (usually "something link" where "something" is a nonsense brand word ex: Viera link, Aquous Link Simplink, Kurolink, etc.). 

As for the whole streaming/ott service debate over what's going to be more expensive--the game has always been to get a user base and then raise their rates to profitability so everything will be back the way it was with cable, but it won't work. They can't lock us in to their services anymore, so don't underestimate the power of being able to drop and add services on a whim. It's also forcing them to get rid of or consolidate their garbage channels. Browse your guide and count how many channels are mostly 90s sitcoms re-runs with just a few hours per week of original programming. Nobody would pay for that if it didn't come in the bundle.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

davezatz said:


> I mean the settings screen where you toggle on CEC is a pretty lame visual.


Curious. Was this just a joke, or are you saying there is an actual setting to toggle CEC on/off?


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

Without Live Guide and PC to Tivo transfers, Hydra remains a non-starter for me.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

As long as Hydra maintains the walled garden and will not allow file transfers from a pc, its of no use to me Without that, an Amazon Fire is far more capable. Not giving up major capability to get a questionable UI update.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

OrangeCrush said:


> so everything will be back the way it was with cable, but it won't work. They can't lock us in to their services anymore


Give Net Neutrality some time to fully decompose and we may see a brave new world, where partnerships effectively limit choice.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I love the people who think prices will ever go down on products.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

TonyD79 said:


> I love the people who think prices will ever go down on products.


I think you're right to be cynical (after all, CE manufacturers, like most corporations, are under constant pressure to increase profits), but it DOES happen that prices go down--particularly in the realm of electronics.

Look at the retail prices of flat-screen TV's, BDP's, computers, monitors, et al, and you will frequently see a notable decline in price which is especially prevalent if you factor in the feature set. While it might not necessarily apply to the higher-end products or niche markets (in which latter category I would classify TiVo DVR's), you need only compare what you had to pay for, say, a 27" monitor 10 years ago and what you would pay today for an even more advanced monitor of the same size, for one of many examples.

Even in cases, such as middle- or upper-tier products (e.g., AVR's), where the prices have gone up, the value equation may be a positive (or a wash) when you take into consideration the technological capabilities or trickle-down of advanced features.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> As long as Hydra maintains the walled garden and will not allow file transfers from a pc, it's of no use to me


Amen. Personally I don't even like Tivo as a playback platform anymore (subtitle issues have become overwhelming) but the family loves it and has resisted Plex, a fully-scripted VLC system I put together which is the bomb, or any of the 4-5 other alternatives I've tried to wean them onto. Tivo is it. Period.

But the moment Hydra becomes mandatory, all the Tivo boxes are gone. Family harmony notwithstanding, we move on.


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## Cheezmo (Apr 26, 2004)

The thing I would most like to see is for suggestions to start working again.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

chiguy50 said:


> I think you're right to be cynical (after all, CE manufacturers, like most corporations, are under constant pressure to increase profits), but it DOES happen that prices go down--particularly in the realm of electronics.
> 
> Look at the retail prices of flat-screen TV's, BDP's, computers, monitors, et al, and you will frequently see a notable decline in price which is especially prevalent if you factor in the feature set. While it might not necessarily apply to the higher-end products or niche markets (in which latter category I would classify TiVo DVR's), you need only compare what you had to pay for, say, a 27" monitor 10 years ago and what you would pay today for an even more advanced monitor of the same size, for one of many examples.
> 
> Even in cases, such as middle- or upper-tier products (e.g., AVR's), where the prices have gone up, the value equation may be a positive (or a wash) when you take into consideration the technological capabilities or trickle-down of advanced features.


I'm talking programming, not hardware.


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## gbm (Oct 6, 2001)

Cheezmo said:


> The thing I would most like to see is for suggestions to start working again.


I agree -- and if they can't improve Suggestions, at least revert to the old code which always worked fine for me. It doesn't bode well that one of the major differentiating features of the device has been so thoroughly broken for so long with no attention. I called them about it and was given the standard "Reboot, reset suggestions, reboot and see what happens." Of course I had alredy done that and had told them that already, but there was no acknowledgement of the issue.

gbm


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

OrangeCrush said:


> Whether or not CEC can be turned off at the TiVo, it should still be an option on the TV itself. All mine have it, but the option often has a wacky name (usually "something link" where "something" is a nonsense brand word ex: Viera link, Aquous Link Simplink, Kurolink, etc.).
> 
> As for the whole streaming/ott service debate over what's going to be more expensive--the game has always been to get a user base and then raise their rates to profitability so everything will be back the way it was with cable, but it won't work. They can't lock us in to their services anymore, so don't underestimate the power of being able to drop and add services on a whim. It's also forcing them to get rid of or consolidate their garbage channels. Browse your guide and count how many channels are mostly 90s sitcoms re-runs with just a few hours per week of original programming. Nobody would pay for that if it didn't come in the bundle.


 It's actually OTA that's become a re-run wasteland and on SD subchannels, it looks like cable in the 90's before original programming. Outside of the four to six major nets, it's re-run land, and a lot of it isn't using new broadcast masters either. Cable actually has more of your edgy shows because they pay to get them. Watch out, one man's garbage channel is someone else's must have. Channel consolidation is a bad thing.


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## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

tenthplanet said:


> It's actually OTA that's become a re-run wasteland and on SD subchannels


It's both. But I suppose I give the subchannels a pass because I'm not paying for them and they're using "extra" bandwidth from the main networks. Meanwhile, on cable right now:

TNT - Charmed, Supernatural, Bones, NCIS
TBS - King of Queens, Seinfeld, Friends, American Dad
WGN - Murder She Wrote, In the Heat of the Night
USA - Law & Order SVU (all freaking day)
SyFy - Z Nation (all freaking day)
VH1 - Martin (Lol!)
Freeform - How I met your mother

I could go on. Most of these shows cycle through the OTA subchannels and syndication now anyway and you could have collected the entire series with a DVR many times over by now--even in HD in some cases. Although many of the older shows were never in HD to begin with.

While each of these networks does a few original shows, it's increasingly difficult to justify paying $100/mo for them. In my situation, I only have cable right now because of a good promo that brings it down to effectively $35/mo. Once that expires, I'm back to OTA only. If there's an occasional new show I simply must see, then I'll buy the season on Amazon and still get nowhere close to the $100/mo the cable company wants.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

OrangeCrush said:


> It's both. But I suppose I give the subchannels a pass because I'm not paying for them and they're using "extra" bandwidth from the main networks. Meanwhile, on cable right now:
> 
> TNT - Charmed, Supernatural, Bones, NCIS
> TBS - King of Queens, Seinfeld, Friends, American Dad
> ...


It's the ads on these shows that help pay for Mr. Robot, The Sinner, AHS, the list goes on. You also listed a lot of shows running during the day time, day time is the wasteland of all TV, has been for years. It's why people own DVR's to record night time shows.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Disappointing, but not unexpected. TE3 Forever then. Oh well...NP...


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

OrangeCrush said:


> Meanwhile, on cable right now:


You forgot Comedy Central.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

If it wasn’t for hockey I would drop cable


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

compnurd said:


> If it wasn't for hockey I would drop cable


Hockey is dead.

Sorry, I'm just a clinically depressed Blackhawks fan.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Cheezmo said:


> The thing I would most like to see is for suggestions to start working again.


Suggestions is working just fine for me. Oh, wait--I'm on the Gen3 software.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

Is there any word on when the fall update with these new features will start rolling out?


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## Chad43 (Nov 23, 2010)

I occasionally teach a class and I always say there are no dumb questions, but I'm about to ask a dumb question because I can't take not knowing any longer. What is the "Live Guide?" I've been a TiVo owner since the original box and I'm sure I know the "Live Guide" when I see it, but it's driving me crazy that I can't make the connection between the concept and the terminology.

Please be gentle.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Chad43 said:


> I occasionally teach a class and I always say there are no dumb questions, but I'm about to ask a dumb question because I can't take not knowing any longer. What is the "Live Guide?" I've been a TiVo owner since the original box and I'm sure I know the "Live Guide" when I see it, but it's driving me crazy that I can't make the connection between the concept and the terminology.
> 
> Please be gentle.


The guide that lists channels on the left and programs for the selected channel on the right.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Live Guide (below) as opposed to Grid Guide. As you can see, you get a vertical text list of the next 8 programs on a single channel. On Hydra, you get a horizontal strip of thumbnails of about the next 6 programs, give or take. Not enough of a difference to get worked into a frenzy, IMO. But this missing feature is the main reason Hydra is so despised. I personally never used the Live Guide before Hydra, so I don't miss it. If you want more details, there are massive threads about it.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

The new one is 4 to 8 shows depending on the mix of movies and tv shows. Shows posters are twice the size of movies.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

A poll and a long thread: Hydra... Bring back Live Guide!!!!


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## Chad43 (Nov 23, 2010)

Thank you all. Nothing beats a constructive community.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

More from @davezatz

TiVo Smart Extend Records Sports With Precision


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Megamind said:


> More from @davezatz
> TiVo Smart Extend Records Sports With Precision


On my feed, the scheduled CBS Sunday second game ended early. CBS, however, went to the OT of another game, causing the 14 minute extension. I can't wait to see how well this gets handled in the guide and TDL. Maybe it only works on games that run longer? We'll see. If it makes all the members who want this feature happy, and there are quite a few, it will be great.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> I can't wait to see how well this gets handled in the guide and TDL. Maybe it only works on games that run longer?


Wait, you're actually expecting this to WORK?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I expect it to work on the sporting event. The bigger issue is the items that get pushed back. This doesn’t address them.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

TonyD79 said:


> I expect it to work on the sporting event. The bigger issue is the items that get pushed back. This doesn't address them.


That was my thought. I've never had an issue with sporting events anyway as I routinely add padding for those I record. It's the programs after that that are a problem. It does seem that if they can determine the time added to the sporting event, they could use that same information to modify subsequent recordings. But maybe one thing at a time ....


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

TiVo would make many customers very happy if they could use Smart Extend data to properly record programs delayed by a live event. I might have to bite the bullet and downgrade to TE4 if it finally solves this long-standing problem.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

Megamind said:


> That was my thought. I've never had an issue with sporting events anyway as I routinely add padding for those I record. It's the programs after that are a problem. It does seem that if they can determine the time added to the sporting event, they could use that same information to modify subsequent recordings. But maybe one thing at a time ....


Except you never know if they are going to push everything back, jump into the middle of the current show, or play something random to fill the space and broadcast the missing show at 1:00 a.m.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

SleepyBob said:


> Except you never know if they are going to push everything back, jump into the middle of the current show, or play something random to fill the space and broadcast the missing show at 1:00 a.m.


I haven't seen a preemption of first run programming very often because of a sports overrun. The most typical is Sunday. Fox builds in reruns to eliminate but both they and cbs will push back in almost every case if needed.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mdavej said:


> Live Guide (below) as opposed to Grid Guide. As you can see, you get a vertical text list of the next 8 programs on a single channel. On Hydra, you get a horizontal strip of thumbnails of about the next 6 programs, give or take. Not enough of a difference to get worked into a frenzy, IMO. But this missing feature is the main reason Hydra is so despised. I personally never used the Live Guide before Hydra, so I don't miss it. If you want more details, there are massive threads about it.


I had used the Live guide since 2002 until Hydra. But after using Hydra for a while now I can say that I do not miss the Live Guide Any more. Since I'm not looking at the guide all that ofetn anyway. I watch recorded shows and if I need to find something I use the Voice remote.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

tim_m said:


> Is there any word on when the fall update with these new features will start rolling out?


allthat was mentioned was a hydra update not fall update


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

It may be that local stations can handle them differently. I've certainly seen shows dropped from the primetime showing and broadcast overnight. But obviously, something gets pre-empted, or they would never get back on schedule.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

SleepyBob said:


> It may be that local stations can handle them differently. I've certainly seen shows dropped from the primetime showing and broadcast overnight. But obviously, something gets pre-empted, or they would never get back on schedule.


Things get bumped when they go to local station programming later and that is usually news, infomercials or reruns.


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## Megamind (Feb 18, 2013)

SleepyBob said:


> Except you never know if they are going to push everything back, jump into the middle of the current show, or play something random to fill the space and broadcast the missing show at 1:00 a.m.


Locally, most things here simply get pushed back. They could start the recording on time, but just pad the show by the amount the previous event was extended. That would take care of the first two possibilities. The third is obviously more complicated and there are probably other scenarios not considered.

Again, it's probably best they take it one thing at a time.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

ajwees41 said:


> allthat was mentioned was a hydra update not fall update


Oh ok, no ETA though?


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

tim_m said:


> Oh ok, no ETA though?


no eta


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

the hydra update can not be delayed you will get if your box is on hydra


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Help Tivo test CEC:

TiVo Needs Your Help


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Help Tivo test CEC:
> 
> TiVo Needs Your Help


I stopped being a guinea pig for TiVo years ago. I have no desire to do testing on their beta software any more.


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