# Oberservations of Failed Hi Def TTG Transfers



## HDTiVo

Oberservations of Failed Hi Def TTG Transfers:

Using TTG to transfer several shows from different networks (ABC, CBS, NBC; all prime time Hi Def) recorded on an S3 and a THD. TD ver. 2.2

All recordings from 11/11 on, except 2 of the 720p ABC recordings from last 2 weeks.

All 3 720p ABC (from one series) recorded on THD, transfered OK.

All failures were 1080i, but the 720p sample is too small yet. High percentage of 1080i from NBC and CBS failed.

THD recordings: 1 of 4 NBC failed; 3 of 4 CBS failed. 50% (4 of 8) 1080i failed overall.

S3 recordings: 5 of 6 CBS failed.

NBC: 25% Fail; CBS 80% Fail (incl. duplicates)

A sequence of 3 NBC recordings 8,9,10pm went Pass, Fail, Pass. (THD)

A sequence of 2 CBS recordings 9,10pm went Fail, Pass. (THD)

No sequential S3 recordings available for test yet.

One failed THD recording's duplicate transfered fully from S3.

All duplicate recordings done on both S3 and THD *fail on exact same frame*.

*All failures occur on a sequence of P frames *... from 3 to 11.

All but one failure was on a sequence of P*I*Pn where n was 3-11.

One failure was PBBIBBPx11

The break in the rhythm of PBBPBBIBBPBB... lasts from a fraction of a second to several seconds. During this break *almost all frames are P frames*. There may be a rare B frame (1 in ~30?)and there are occassional I frames (1 in ~15?)

The one CBS recording that transfered fully from the S3 but not the THD had the same pattern of predominantly P frames continue after the failure frame.

----------------
All recordings were examined using VideoRedo.


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## Laserfan

Sorry but I don't have any idea what a "failed transfer" is??? Are you talking about xsfers not completing over Ethernet, or about viewing shows using TTCB from VRD/PC to Tivo, or what? If the latter, what constitutes a failure--a pixellation of any type?

Also, why are you using TD 2.2 when 2.5.1 is the latest.


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## HDTiVo

Laserfan said:


> Sorry but I don't have any idea what a "failed transfer" is??? Are you talking about xsfers not completing over Ethernet, or about viewing shows using TTCB from VRD/PC to Tivo, or what? If the latter, what constitutes a failure--a pixellation of any type?
> 
> Also, why are you using TD 2.2 when 2.5.1 is the latest.





HDTiVo said:


> Using TTG to transfer several shows from different networks (ABC, CBS, NBC; all prime time Hi Def) recorded on an S3 and a THD.


A failed transfer is one that did not complete. It may have stopped anwhere from the first few seconds to virtually the end of the recording.

A TTG transfer is one from a TiVo to a PC. In all cases these are recordings made on the particular S3 or THD.

There is no evidence of any problem with the original recording. No pixelation or sound drops on the TiVo. With the episode that transfered from S3 but not THD, there is nothing unusual in the frames before/after the failure frame on the complete TTG transfer, other than the P frame anomoly.

TD 2.5 breaks my playback of videos on my PC. I reverted to 2.2 to avoid that.

All transfers are done over wired ethernet. All failures are consistently at the same frame if the transfer is repeated.


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## jcthorne

I would suggest you get TD 2.5 working and fix your codec issues on your pc. Then retry the transfers. I have not had a single recording on the Tivo fail to transfer to my pc once it started. (DRM issues aside) Trasfers of HD material from a PC to Tivo have taken some work to find combos that work but not for Tivo to PC.


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## wgw

You are very fortunate if you have never had a transfer to PC fail. The rest of us experience failed transfers all the time whether using the latest TD 2.5.1 or doing the transfer with a browser. And HDTivo is right, repeated transfer attempts fail at the same spot.


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## Laserfan

Ok, well that's why I asked what these were--I have never had a file transfer not complete to-the-end perfectly, whether from S3 to PC or back again. Using TD 2.5.1 (not Plus) and CAT5.


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## HDTiVo

I continue to experience very high failure rates on 1080i content of roughly 75%. The failures are always on the pattern of IPn frames as described before.

In one case, I had two different shows fail on the same frame of the same commercial which happened to be aired during both shows.

So far no 720p transfers have failed. I've even transfered several 720p football games - roughly 4:30 each without a hitch.


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## greg_burns

Do you get any 1080i using OTA that could test with? I transfer The Unit from CBS from my OTA channel every week w/o issue.


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## yunlin12

I have a S3 transferring to Tivo desktop 2.5 running on a Vista PC, so far I've transfered a whole season of Dr Who, Torchwood (incomplete season), Firefly HD on UHD, March of Penguin in Discovery HD, another 60-70 shows from Comedy central, cartoon network, and food network, I think I had 1 transfer hang because I turned off the PC during the transfer. But otherwise, ~ 100 shows, and not a single problem.


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## HDTiVo

greg_burns said:


> Do you get any 1080i using OTA that could test with? I transfer The Unit from CBS from my OTA channel every week w/o issue.


No OTA access.

Yunlin:

I am wondering if there is a particular incompatibility between the equipment my cable co is using to send the 1080i content and TiVo's TTG implementation. Perhaps something about the content causes TTG to choke and maybe that something is related to the series of P frames preceded by an I frame which all the failed transfers end on.


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## Burdy

I've noticed the same issue (Cablevision, Dutchess County NY here). ABC HD is 720p and files transfer OK; also SD recordings have no problems. But I've never been able to transfer a complete 1080i recording yet (using TD 2.5.1 on XP and Vista)-- file transfers end prematurely, and the endpoint is the same on each transfer (each file seems to have its own individual, repeatable endpoint, judging by the file sizes) when retried.


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## rbeauch

I am also a Cablevision subscriber but I only have had a problem with a couple 1080i programs that are from one of the Voom channels. All other programs have transferred just fine. It is peculiar that I can transfer those same programs between Tivo's without any issue.


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## moyekj

Don't know if this post is approved for posting here but here goes (mods feel free to axe this post if deemed inappropriate):
As I theorized in another thread, perhaps certain recordings with glitches or some incompatibilities cannot be properly converted by Tivo to .TiVo format during TTG process (de-muxing and re-muxing to mpeg2 program stream and then adding encryption), which is why they fail to transfer. MRV transfers do not fail for these same problematic recordings which is evidence to support that theory. Hence one potential solution to this problem would be to "MRV" recordings to your PC instead of "TTG".

After some packet sniffing on MRV transfers I determined that MRV transfers are initiated in a very similar way to TTG transfers but with the addition of a format specification *&Format=video%2Fx-tivo-raw-tts* to the URL. i.e. Transfer the raw tivo transport stream instead of converting to TTG format. For example, the following worked for me to MRV a show to my PC using a web browser:


Code:


http://192.168.1.101/download/Grey's%20Anatomy.TiVo?Container=%2FNowPlaying&id=1169277&Format=video%2Fx-tivo-raw-tts

Only big problem is the resulting mpeg2 transport stream file on my PC is encrypted in a form that I don't know how to unencrypt. On hacked THD/S3 units with encryption disabled this wouldn't be an issue. So if there are any encryption experts out there willing to pursue this further that can crack the encryption that could be a very useful thing. A side benefit as well is that MRV transfers can be 2x faster than TTG since they present much less overhead to the Tivo compared to TTG.
P.S. I have the ethereal packet dump if this is of interest to anyone you can P.M. me for a copy.


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## Dan203

HDTiVo said:


> I am wondering if there is a particular incompatibility between the equipment my cable co is using to send the 1080i content and TiVo's TTG implementation. Perhaps something about the content causes TTG to choke and maybe that something is related to the series of P frames preceded by an I frame which all the failed transfers end on.


When you play back the recording on the TiVo itself is there any sort of audio or video breakup right at the point where it craps out? Or does it play fine?

Dan


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## HDTiVo

Dan203 said:


> When you play back the recording on the TiVo itself is there any sort of audio or video breakup right at the point where it craps out? Or does it play fine?
> 
> Dan


Nope.


HDTiVo said:


> There is no evidence of any problem with the original recording. No pixelation or sound drops on the TiVo. With the episode that transfered from S3 but not THD, there is nothing unusual in the frames before/after the failure frame on the complete TTG transfer, other than the P frame anomoly.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5707612#post5707612


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## HDTiVo

moyekj said:


> Only big problem is the resulting mpeg2 transport stream file on my PC is encrypted in a form that I don't know how to unencrypt.


Maybe someone could modify something like DSD to run the ts through the TiVo DRM filter someway.

Presumably this will be temporary anyway if TiVo figures out the problem and fixes it.


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## moyekj

HDTiVo said:


> Maybe someone could modify something like DSD to run the ts through the TiVo DRM filter someway.
> 
> Presumably this will be temporary anyway if TiVo figures out the problem and fixes it.


 Even if Tivo fixes this issue it would still be nice to MRV to pc so as to get faster MRV transfer rates...


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## Dan203

HDTiVo said:


> Maybe someone could modify something like DSD to run the ts through the TiVo DRM filter someway.


The TiVo filter doesn't recognize the files even if loaded manually.

I believe these are native ty streams, and unfortunately both the TiVo DS filter and tivodecode assume the file will be in the TTG MPEG program stream format. (and tools like tyTools don't work with encrypted files) It might be possible for Froobar to do something with tivodecode to support these files, but over on the "other" forum there seems to be some debate as to whether or not the encryption is actually the same on these files as TTG, so maybe not. If he does get it working I'd personally be very interested as the download speeds I saw with the raw files were about 3 times faster then transferring a .tivo file.

Dan


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## greg_burns

Dan203 said:


> ... but over on the "other" forum there seems to be some debate as to whether or not the encryption is actually the same on these files as TTG, so maybe not.


Is this new news that *moyekj* discovered, or has this been know for awhile? Just curious how much thought has been given to it already.


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## HDTiVo

Perhaps there is a way to initiate a "MRV" style transfer back to TiVo of these "&Format=video&#37;2Fx-tivo-raw-tts" files so the PC could be used as "dumb" extra storage at the least?


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## moyekj

HDTiVo said:


> Perhaps there is a way to initiate a "MRV" style transfer back to TiVo of these "&Format=video%2Fx-tivo-raw-tts" files so the PC could be used as "dumb" extra storage at the least?


 Yes, ideally we would need the PC to act as though it's another Tivo on the network so it can become a server. For anyone with the appropriate skills here's the ethereal packet dump from which I pulled this video formatting option:
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/mrvTransfer.pcap
You will need Wireshark to view it.


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## Laserfan

HDTiVo said:


> Perhaps there is a way to initiate a "MRV" style transfer back to TiVo of these "&Format=video%2Fx-tivo-raw-tts" files so the PC could be used as "dumb" extra storage at the least?


Great idea!!! Someone will figure this out... :up:


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## Dan203

I think someone tried this way back when MRV existed but TTG did not and ran into some trouble. Although I think MRV may have worked a little different back then, so maybe there is some new hope with this new method.

Dan


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## ah30k

I am seeing these failures pretty regularly on SD transfers from the S2DT as well. Always at the same exact spot on repeated attempts.


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## HDTiVo

ah30k said:


> I am seeing these failures pretty regularly on SD transfers from the S2DT as well. Always at the same exact spot on repeated attempts.


Also with the pattern of I frame followed by repeated P frames?


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## montivette

I get failed transfers almost every time on one of my PC's. 

My solution seems to be turning off Kaspersky Security (firewall/anti virus) prior to the start of the transfers. Every time Kaspersky is on the transfer will fail to download competely. 

Every time I shut off Kaspersky the files transfer completely. 

Not sure why. But something about it is stopping the transfer from being received fully.

A solution possibly for others is to turn off their firewall/antivirus prior to transferring. Maybe it will help you too. Or maybe not.


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## ah30k

HDTiVo said:


> Also with the pattern of I frame followed by repeated P frames?


How would I determine this?


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## HDTiVo

ah30k said:


> How would I determine this?


I used videoredo.


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## greg_burns

HDTiVo said:


> I used videoredo.


Can you be more specific? I don't see how to do that in VR.


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## HDTiVo

VR puts a yellowish green I,P or B in the upper left corner of every frame. Just go to the last frame and work your way back. I see several P frames preceeded by an I frame every time.


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## greg_burns

HDTiVo said:


> VR puts a yellowish green I,P or B in the upper left corner of every frame. Just go to the last frame and work your way back. I see several P frames preceeded by an I frame every time.


That must be an option you turned on somewhere. I don't see it in VR TVSuite.


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## Laserfan

greg_burns said:


> I don't see it in VR TVSuite.


It's there, you have to look harder. My VRD machine isn't on atm--I think this setting might be in Thumbnail options? I'll look it up later if no one here responds.


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## greg_burns

Laserfan said:


> It's there, you have to look harder. My VRD machine isn't on atm--I think this setting might be in Thumbnail options? I'll look it up later if no one here responds.


I meant I didn't see the I, P, or B in the upper left corner of every frame. 

I will look for the option to turn it on. Sorry for wasting bandwith. 

Edit: it was right under my nose...

View->Display On Screen Information.

Did discover it still has the Tools->Shift+Options to change manual parameter settings.


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## wgw

greg_burns said:


> I meant I didn't see the I, P, or B in the upper left corner of every frame.
> 
> I will look for the option to turn it on. Sorry for wasting bandwith.


Not at all. I've been scouring options and hidden options for 30 minutes and could not find it. Never thought to look under "View"-->"Display On Screen Information". Doh!


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## HDTiVo

You had me looking for it too for a long time and not finding it. 

But I found out how to get rid of those thumbnails which have driven me nuts since I started using VRTVS. :up:

(its a right click on the preview...  )


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## Laserfan

greg_burns said:


> ...it was right under my nose...


Indeed many of VRD's fine features "hide in plain sight"! I've used it for a few years and still have to hunt.


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## steve614

HDTiVo said:


> But I found out how to get rid of those thumbnails which have driven me nuts since I started using VRTVS. :up:
> 
> (its a right click on the preview...  )


Heh, I used VRD for a year without knowing about the filmstrip thumbnail.
I kinda like it.


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## Dan203

montivette said:


> I get failed transfers almost every time on one of my PC's.
> 
> My solution seems to be turning off Kaspersky Security (firewall/anti virus) prior to the start of the transfers. Every time Kaspersky is on the transfer will fail to download competely.
> 
> Every time I shut off Kaspersky the files transfer completely.
> 
> Not sure why. But something about it is stopping the transfer from being received fully.
> 
> A solution possibly for others is to turn off their firewall/antivirus prior to transferring. Maybe it will help you too. Or maybe not.


This is a problem with Kaspersky Security, and not TiVo Desktop. They appear to have a 2GB limit on all files downloaded via HTTP and TiVo Desktop uses HTTP to transfer TTG files and almost all TTG files are bigger then 2GB. If you do a search you will find other users who had this same problem long before the TiVoHD even got TTG.

Dan


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## Laserfan

Dan203 said:


> This is a problem with Kaspersky Security...


I have never had a transfer problem and suspect others' firewall and antivirus/security software. I have none, and have turned-off Windows XP firewall as well. I know that stuff is intended to prevent problems, but IMO does in fact nothing but CAUSE problems. :down:


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## Dan203

If you have a hardware firewall built into your router, and you never download anything with spyware/adware, then you're probably safe turning off your firewall. However if you don't have a hardware firewall and you go onto the internet without any protection you will have a worm on your computer in a matter of minutes. You don't even have to do anything. They will just find you and burro themselves into your PC and you'll never even know until all your friends start getting spam from your email address.

Dan


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## Laserfan

Dan203 said:


> If you have a hardware firewall built into your router...


I agree that everyone should have a hardware firewall (as I do) but all that junk that purports to filter viruses & whatnot causes IMO way more problems than it's worth. Ironically, those less-literate computer users that may need such software are the least well-equipped to deal with the problems that arise from their use. 

In general though the first thing I do when asked to help with a PC problem is DISABLE THE BLANKETY-BLANK NORTON/MCAFEE!!!


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## greg_burns

Laserfan said:


> In general though the first thing I do when asked to help with a PC problem is DISABLE THE BLANKETY-BLANK NORTON/MCAFEE!!!


+1


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## HDTiVo

So no one has looked at their failed transfers to see if they get the repeated P frames or any other unusual factors common in the failures?


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## greg_burns

HDTiVo said:


> So no one has looked at their failed transfers to see if they get the repeated P frames or any other unusual factors common in the failures?


I can't get anything to fail. Can you edit a failing video down small enough that we could swap one? I would like to try one on my S3.


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## ah30k

Sorry, don't have the tool to check.

Has anyone called in to the TiVo helpdesk with a trouble ticket? I assume there are some TiVo people who check in here but maybe that is a bad assumption.


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## wgw

HDTiVo said:


> So no one has looked at their failed transfers to see if they get the repeated P frames or any other unusual factors common in the failures?


I checked a couple failed downloads the other day and did not notice repeated P frames but I only checked the last 20 frames or so. Disabling Windows Firewall did not matter but I have not tried to disable McAfee yet.


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## wgw

Uninstalling McAfee had no effect. Blips/Glitches in the original recording seems to be the cause of my failed transfers. I have playback blips on the Tivo about 5 seconds before each of the 3 failed transfers I just checked.


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## Dan203

ah30k said:


> Sorry, don't have the tool to check.


You can download a free trial of VideoReDO and use it to check.

Dan


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## HDTiVo

greg_burns said:


> I can't get anything to fail. Can you edit a failing video down small enough that we could swap one? I would like to try one on my S3.


I guess I have to mrv a small segment just prior to the failure frame, then TTG and use DSD to create an mpg for you, because if I use VRD it will change the mpg in some way.


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## VideoGrabber

HDTiVo asked:
> _So no one has looked at their failed transfers to see if they get the repeated P frames or any other unusual factors common in the failures?_ <

Not yet, though I think I could. Would I need to use the MRV trick to get the whole thing off my S3, or can I just examine the fragment that does make it across via TTG, and look at the frames just before the end point?

I was assuming that whatever caused the problem aborted the sequence at that point, and thus what I'd need to see would be AFTER the point it stopped at... not before. In any case, I have some very repeatable examples, including one ep. of Life from NBC (all my TTG failures have been limited to NBC-HD) I flagged as DoNotDelete that I'd still like to eventually be able to get off the TiVo.

- Tim


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## Lensman

About half my transfers fail.

Of the four failures I've checked out tonight after reading your post, 3 have the long string of P frames. The last one did not have this pattern, though I haven't checked it out fully. That one exception is a little funny in that VideoRedo seems to have trouble navigating and freeze-framing at least one of the frames close to the end of the part that got transferred.

I'll continue checking out my additional failures.

Oh yes, and these are recorded from Cablevision in Hoboken.


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## jlb

Don't know if it is the same issue or not, but my recording of the Patriots/Ravens game keeps failing at the same point ~416mb through the transfer (from a S2DT recording at Med).

My last frame is P, preceded by the following (go backwards): B B P B B P B B P B B

No idea what it means, but maybe it will help.


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## Dan203

That sequence is pretty typical, so I doubt it has anything to do with your failure. In that game is there any sort of audio or video glitch near the point where it starts transferring? Because that also seems to cause issues.

Dan


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## jlb

The game was an ESPN game that the local ABC affilliate picks up. There was a "pop" in both audio/video every 10 minutes. I think the broadcast was screwed up to the point that neither TTG or the browser method can get past it.


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## HDTiVo

jlb said:


> The game was an ESPN game that the local ABC affilliate picks up. There was a "pop" in both audio/video every 10 minutes. I think the broadcast was screwed up to the point that neither TTG or the browser method can get past it.


Your situation is typical of programs with glitches. Also it is an analog recording on an analog TiVo, so quite different, but nevertheless a legit problem.


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## HDTiVo

Lensman said:


> That one exception is a little funny in that VideoRedo seems to have trouble navigating and freeze-framing at least one of the frames close to the end of the part that got transferred.


I've had a few .tivo files that VR literally couldn't handle. It would crash on _open _or _save as _I think. That may be an additional issue with regard either to the transmission or the TTG of the program.

Recently I had one failure not on a P string. But that is one out of dozens. A couple failures were on *B*IPPP... instead of *P*IPPP... but that is also rare ~10%.

Still no 720p failures for me (ABC & ESPN)

Also, I have not seen any failures due to the audio/video glitch problem in recent months, even on HD recordings that do have some glitches.This has been exclusively the P string problem for me.


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## Lensman

Here are a couple of examples:
1. MOJOHD, Speed: ...xIPPPPPpPPPPpPPPPpPPPP
2. NGCGD, Secret Yosemite: ...BPBBIPPPPPPPPPPPP
3. NGCHD, Anatomy of an Earthquake: ....PPPPIPPPPPP(missing frame)(followed by 32 P frames)
4. HDT, National Parks, "Lodges & Inns": ...BBpBB

The big P's are where I can actually navigate to that frame and it shows a P in the upper left. The little P is where the thumbnail view (in single-frame mode) shows a P next to the frame number but where when I navigate to it seems to show that frame but automatically navigates to the next frame. The x's are where I couldn't get any frame type information from VideoReDo.

I've watched the segments and haven't found any dropouts or glitches at the drop point. This happens at the same point for both TDT 2.5.1 transfers and https transfers. My S3 is running 9.2a-01-2-648. Oh, and is it relevant that I'm very happy with the bitrates that Cablevision is providing?


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## ah30k

Evidently everybody really does hate Chris including TiVo. It seems as though there is something about the way my S2DT records Everybody Hates Chris because that show seems to have the most problems. Just tonight I was sitting at my S3 and MRV'ed an episode from my DT. It failed at 18 minutes into the show. I thought it was only TTG that failed but I never really checked MRV. I now have a bum copy on my S3 and the original on my S2DT, it would be nice if TiVo could pull the two files and figure out what is going on here.


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## Lensman

I recorded Speed on MOJOHD again and this time it worked. I've moved a couple of different variables so it's not a perfect test. This time it was off of my TivoHD on Comcast. I'll check the offending section where the transfer failed off of the first transfer when I get back to my editing machine. Gotta see if the encoding was different the second time around.


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## HDTiVo

Lensman said:


> I recorded Speed on MOJOHD again and this time it worked. I've moved a couple of different variables so it's not a perfect test. This time it was off of my TivoHD on Comcast. I'll check the offending section where the transfer failed off of the first transfer when I get back to my editing machine. Gotta see if the encoding was different the second time around.


The interesting thing will be the change of cable provider and what that shows when you look at the same section that failed with the other cable provider.

It would be really interesting if you could make a recording at the same time on the two different cable providers to see what happens.

S3/HD probably does not matter; I get failures at the same point on both the S3 and HD from the same program source.


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## VideoGrabber

Do we know if TiVo is doing anything to address this issue, which IMO is a pretty serious problem? Since the defect obviously lies in the TTG wrap & ship code, which they're the only ones who can fix.

My S3 is starting to fill up with recordings that are problem-free, except they can't make it out the TTG door. It would be nice to have this fixed before I have to start nuking them, but at this point I'm not sure TiVo has even admitted there is a problem on their end.

Some other things that would be really nice would be:

a) to fix their memory leak in TiVoTransfer that sucks up all of VM and takes thing down eventually, and

b) add the ability to resume a transfer that was interrupted for any reason
(so you don't have to sit there for another hour or two downloading the same portion all over again)

- Tim


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## richsadams

EDIT: Like some others here I was having all sorts of issues transferring some HD programming from our Series3 which is connected by Ethernet to a D-Link 802.11n router and then by Ethernet to our PC...receiving several errors, pictured here:

http://i1.tinypic.com/71wirmf.jpg

http://i16.tinypic.com/6teq9w7.jpg

http://i13.tinypic.com/8brufsh.jpg

It turns out as others have suggested to be the security software causing the problems. I use BitDefender's Security Suite which has all of the bells and whistles including virus protection, firewall, etc. I had previously turned the various security programs off such as the firewall, etc. individually but things didn't improve.

Out of frustration I disconnected my router from the broadband connection and then turned BitDefender's programs off completely. That allowed me to use my home network without "outside interference". I gave the transfers another shot...and no problems. Turns out BitDefender does _not _play nice with TiVo Desktop. 

I'll try to track down what elements are causing the trouble and report back. Any suggestions of where to start would be most welcome. :up:


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## Laserfan

Gosh Rich, a lot of us transfer huge HD shows w/free Tivo Desktop 2.5.1 all the time--indeed I have never seen an error in doing so, not once. I would try first another PC, then I'd connect my S3 directly to my PC, bypassing the router (probably would need a crossover cable).

I'd suspect ANY firewall or AV software first (hate that stuff, just hate it!!! :down, then the PC NIC card, and finally the Tivo itself.

BTW the other way a direct PC to Tivo connection would help is it would eliminate all the cables in-between as suspects.


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## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> Gosh Rich, a lot of us transfer huge HD shows w/free Tivo Desktop 2.5.1 all the time--indeed I have never seen an error in doing so, not once. I would try first another PC, then I'd connect my S3 directly to my PC, bypassing the router (probably would need a crossover cable).
> 
> I'd suspect ANY firewall or AV software first (hate that stuff, just hate it!!! :down, then the PC NIC card, and finally the Tivo itself.
> 
> BTW the other way a direct PC to Tivo connection would help is it would eliminate all the cables in-between as suspects.


Thanks very much for the wise suggestions. I was actually doing (more or less) what you suggested just about the same time as you were posting your advice...and it worked! :up:

I updated my post above to note that my security software was the culprit. Now I have to investigate what part exactly is causing problems because I don't want to have to turn it all off (and disconnect from the Internet to avoid nasty things happening) every time I want to transfer a program.

I was going to resort to running some CAT5 from upstairs to the TiVo downstairs for a direct connection, but thought Id keep the router in the loop first to see if that was the issue. (Next I was going to try transfers on my laptop to eliminate the PC) However it turns out the router is fine, its the #%#$#! security software. 

What I can't figure out is why I can transfer SD programming without any errors, but HD transfers seem to go completely south almost every time. 

Thanks again for the good advice! :up:


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## Laserfan

richsadams said:


> ...my security software was the culprit.


Glad you found it!

I have always thought, and I get ornerier about it every time I uncover a new example, that AV & firewall software are the worst thing ever to be foisted on an (unsuspecting) public! Can't begin to tell you how many ordinary folks I've helped-out whose problems were due to Norton or some other blankety-blank.

Clearly you are not an "ordinary" PC user... Does BitDefender have an easy "Turn me off" feature? At least Norton seems to, now.

I think it's a lot easier simply to practice "safe computing"!!!


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> Glad you found it!
> 
> I have always thought, and I get ornerier about it every time I uncover a new example, that AV & firewall software are the worst thing ever to be foisted on an (unsuspecting) public! Can't begin to tell you how many ordinary folks I've helped-out whose problems were due to Norton or some other blankety-blank.
> 
> Clearly you are not an "ordinary" PC user... Does BitDefender have an easy "Turn me off" feature? At least Norton seems to, now.
> 
> I think it's a lot easier simply to practice "safe computing"!!!


Agreed, the secuity issues are getting out of hand and much too complicated.

I used Norton for years and last used Norton 360 but was very disappointed with it (although it didn't mess with TiVo Desktop). Norton became a real resource hog particularly with updates, sometimes using at much as 90% of the CPU. BitDefender is much better at doing what it's supposed to do, but again, TiVo Desktop is an issue now. Sigh. You can turn BitDefender's individual programs off but not all at once.

It's all a PIA to deal with. Just wish we could find the bad guys that require the folks that live in the real world to use security measures and send a bazillion volts down their little Ethernet loving lines to blow them out of their dark little corners in their mother's basements.


----------



## cwoody222

Has TiVo officially acknowledged this issue? Pretty much ******** that they are silent on what is a pretty serious issue.

I still am unable to transfer ANY HD content... it always fails 10secs or so into it.


----------



## richsadams

cwoody222 said:


> Has TiVo officially acknowledged this issue? Pretty much ******** that they are silent on what is a pretty serious issue.
> 
> I still am unable to transfer ANY HD content... it always fails 10secs or so into it.


I had/have the same problem. It's frustrating, but I don't think there's much that TiVo can do about the multitude of security software programs out there. All of them handle things in different ways. When I had Norton things were pretty much okay with TiVo files, but the BitDefender program is much more robust and seems to catch every little thing. I guess that's good when it comes to making sure my computer is safe, but really annoying when it messes with things I want to do.

Have you tried eliminating your security program from the loop to see if you can transfer HD programming? As soon as I did that TiVo Desktop worked fine.

I wonder what it is about HD that causes all of the problems.


----------



## cwoody222

Well, I just tried hardwiring the TiVo and the computer. Still no luck. It stops at 26mb downloaded of a 21gb file.

I've tried on my Mac with no firewall or anti-virus installed.

I've tried on a PC with the firewall turned off and no anti-virus program ever installed.

So that's not my problem.


----------



## greg_burns

Amazon Unbox work for you?


----------



## cwoody222

Yep, I use Unbox all the time.

GoBack also works.


----------



## HDTiVo

richsadams said:


> I had/have the same problem. It's frustrating, but I don't think there's much that TiVo can do about the multitude of security software programs out there.


This problem has nothing to do with the security software. That issue has been mentioned elsewhere and is known about (amongst TCFers.)

TiVo has said nothing about this problem (or _that _problem AFAIK.)


----------



## Laserfan

HDTiVo said:


> This problem has nothing to do with the security software.


Well, richadams' problem was with security software. IMO it has to do with SOMETHING other than the Tivo--I have never experienced a failed HD transfer, ever. Not once. If you & others have, my money is on a non-Tivo problem, with either networks or PCs and/or software.


----------



## greg_burns

cwoody222 said:


> GoBack also works.


I'm assuming you are transferring back non Tivo HD files since you can't get them to your computer in the first place.

That make me think it is something about your cable service's bitrate or _something _ that your S3 doesn't like. 

Can you transfer SD or OTA material?

Seems some people's 30 sec skip is really messed up for some channels and others it is OK. Kinda thinking along those lines. Pure conjecture on my part.

Edit: nevermind, just read your other post in that other thread.


----------



## HDTiVo

greg_burns said:


> Seems some people's 30 sec skip is really messed up for some channels and others it is OK. Kinda thinking along those lines. Pure conjecture on my part.


It is interesting that you mention that because 1FF does not work properly on the 1080i channels either.

But you are right that it seems to be some bad interaction between the program as transmitted by certain cable co facilities and TiVo's TTG operation.

It is interesting that cwoody mentions the OTA HD program was the only one he's been able to TTG; but also that he thinks he has had trouble with OTA SD programs. I'd like to know if he's tried a number of instances to verify it isn't just random bad luck.


----------



## cwoody222

HDTiVo said:


> It is interesting that cwoody mentions the OTA HD program was the only one he's been able to TTG; but also that he thinks he has had trouble with OTA SD programs. I'd like to know if he's tried a number of instances to verify it isn't just random bad luck.


I tried probably about half a dozen SD analog cable transfers. Every one worked.

I know I've tried at least 1 QAM HD program (failed at 10sec), 1 OTA HD (failed half way thru the full hour) and 1 OTA SD (failed at 10sec).

I've tried a few other OTA HD programs that I don't recall the details of but none have worked.

All of the transfers were from early Nov or after... the computer I had previous to that didn't have enough room to even hold the transfers so I never tried.

I do transfers from my ReplayTV (analog cable) all the time and they work every time, no problem.


----------



## cwoody222

I'm trying 3 OTA HD transfers again tonight. 1 was recorded before the service update, in Aug. 1 was recorded tonight. 1 was the one I tried earlier today; recorded in October, after the service update.

Reason I need this to work (with OTA HD) is for this, next week:

http://www.nhl.com/winterclassic/index.html


----------



## cwoody222

My results:

OTA HD, recorded in August - transferred 100&#37;. Auto transcoded to mp4 with Popcorn but with the audio out of sync.

OTA HD, recorded in October, same channel as above - transferred about 50%.

OTA HD, recorded last night, different channel - transferred 100%.


----------



## HDTiVo

cwoody222 said:


> My results:
> 
> OTA HD, recorded in August - transferred 100%. Auto transcoded to mp4 with Popcorn but with the audio out of sync.
> 
> OTA HD, recorded in October, same channel as above - transferred about 50%.
> 
> OTA HD, recorded last night, different channel - transferred 100%.


So the OTA that did not work, does it have the P frame anomoly at the end of the transfered portion as described for this problem, or is there anything else you can detect that is unusual?

Also, are the channels 1080i or 720p?


----------



## steve614

On a more serious note I tried transferring an HD show and it quit at 4092 Mb.
Then I realized I hadn't converted my file system to NTFS yet.

Will try again after the conversion later.


----------



## cwoody222

The transfer from Aug that worked was from ABC so that was 720p. The one from the other night that also worked was from NBC so that was 1080i.


----------



## mux1

cwoody222 said:


> The transfer from Aug that worked was from ABC so that was 720p. The one from the other night that also worked was from NBC so that was 1080i.


I use my TivoHD with OTA only, and seem to have most of my problems with 1080i content (I don't think I've had a 720P transfer fail?). Transfer stops at various points, and is frustrating me because I've got stuff I would really like to put on the PC, but there it sits...on my Tivo.... using up a lot of space.


----------



## steve614

So far, I've transferred 3 HD shows from 2 different channels (OTA) successfully.

Last night during one of the transfers, I got an error message in TivoDesktop (2.2) stating "Some transfers have been interrupted because the device is actively blocking attempts to retrieve data".
I wondered what function the Tivo would be doing that it would have to actively block outside interference. It did start recording a show while I was transferring, but I don't believe that to be the cause.

Just for grins this morning, I restarted my TivoHD and the transfer went through fine.


----------



## cwoody222

cwoody222 said:


> Reason I need this to work (with OTA HD) is for this, next week:
> 
> http://www.nhl.com/winterclassic/index.html


Well, luckily, my OTA (1080i) recording of this worked and transferred fine. It was 4 hours in HD - around 25GBs! Took about 5 hours + to transfer but at least it worked.


----------



## adambpsu

cwoody222 said:


> Well, luckily, my OTA (1080i) recording of this worked and transferred fine. It was 4 hours in HD - around 25GBs! Took about 5 hours + to transfer but at least it worked.


Go figure. The Winter Classic was the first (and one of the only) programs I wanted in HD for TTG. Unfortunately, because of the nagging TTG and HD transfer issues that everyone (myself included) are experiencing, I can't get it transfered to my Mac. I wish there was a solution to this...

Edit: I have attempted to transfer my HD recording of the Winter Classic ten or more times now and every one of them fails at or around 1.5 GB.


----------



## HDTiVo

adambpsu said:


> Edit: I have attempted to transfer my HD recording of the Winter Classic ten or more times now and every one of them fails at or around 1.5 GB.


You should expect that. Take a look at the files with VideoRedo and you'll probably see they fail at the same frame each time. Take a look at the last couple seconds of the video and see what types of frames there are (I,P,B).

What is your source for these recordings: OTA or Cable? 1080i or 720p?


----------



## adambpsu

HDTiVo said:


> You should expect that. Take a look at the files with VideoRedo and you'll probably see they fail at the same frame each time. Take a look at the last couple seconds of the video and see what types of frames there are (I,P,B).
> 
> What is your source for these recordings: OTA or Cable? 1080i or 720p?


Thanks for the reply. Since I'm on a Mac I can't use VideoRedo to look at the frames, sorry (I'm not sure if there is anything similar for the Mac). As for the source, it was cable and 1080i.


----------



## cwoody222

adambpsu said:


> Go figure. The Winter Classic was the first (and one of the only) programs I wanted in HD for TTG. Unfortunately, because of the nagging TTG and HD transfer issues that everyone (myself included) are experiencing, I can't get it transfered to my Mac. I wish there was a solution to this...
> 
> Edit: I have attempted to transfer my HD recording of the Winter Classic ten or more times now and every one of them fails at or around 1.5 GB.


When I transferred it via the official program the .tivo file worked the first time. But I wanted a plain .mpeg too. That one probably took 5 times or so. I have no idea why sometimes it fails and other times it works.

Sucks with a file this big too because every attempt takes hours.


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## ccrider2

I've read the previous posts and I seem to be having the same problem that no one has found a solution. 

Trying to transfer shows from my TiVo S3 to a PC, using TiVo Desktop 2.5.1, so I can edit with VideoRedo and burn to DVD. The shows that fail to transfer always quit at the same spot (Byte Count), with no errors. 

Example: White Christmas recorded from WNDYTV 23.1 (modified show from B&W 4:3 to color 16:9)
program guide listed it as HD the channel resolution is 1280x720p.

The shows play fine on the TiVo, with no noticeable glitches.

Are there any other methods to get these shows transfered?
I have a stock TiVo, and not interested in any mods at this time.

Any Ideas?

Thanks Much!
Chris


----------



## VideoGrabber

steve614 commented:
> _I wondered what function the Tivo would be doing that it would have to actively block outside interference. _ <

Steve, I've seen this happen when my S3 has downloaded Guide update information, and is busy merging it into the database. Usually this is a fairly short process (unless you plug your TiVo into the outside network once a week, like I do), so if you try again after a short wait, it may go fine.

- Tim


----------



## Laserfan

ccrider2 said:


> Trying to transfer shows from my TiVo S3 to a PC...transfer always quit at the same spot (Byte Count), with no errors.


Chris is there any chance you are trying to transfer to a hard drive on the PC that is formatted FAT32? Such drives can't deal with files >4Gb, and surely "White Christmas" is bigger than that. You need NTFS formatted drive(s) for HD.

Our affiliate didn't broadcast an HD White Christmas...! I'm mad/jealous!


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## sathead

New TiVoHD owner here- very informative and friendly forum you have here!

New to TiVo, but not new to AV hobby. FWIW: Have had ReplayTV's since 2004 which I download from weekly using the ultra reliable DVArchive (the Replay equivalent of TiVo Desktop), home built HTPC with QAM capture card with 100% reliable/fast file transfer for two years, and last and most certainly least the cable company's SA8300HD DVR with very glitchy firewire transfer.

Activated my TiVoHD (lifetime $399 act deal) on Jan 7th 2008, got my cable cards installed yesterday. I receive all the analog SD/unencrypted QAM/encrypted QAM cable channels I pay for, no issues there.

My sole reason for buying the TiVoHD is to *record the encrypted HD cable channels I pay for and be able to download them to my computer for archiving.* I have a HTPC for recording/saving unencrypted cable HD channels.

Last night I recorded Battlestar Galactica and Vanilla Sky both off Universal HD. No problems recording from the encrypted channel.

Upon downloading from my hardwired TiVoHD to my hardwired PC (tried two different PC's- no firewall or AV sw on either) first using TiVo Desktop and then directly via Firefox and IE... both 1080i transfers fail at the same point repeatably using any of the above programs. 
The BSG transfer fails at frame 16,959 which is about 2min 45sec into the recording. I loaded that short 641 MB segment into VideoRedo and found a long string of "P " frames without "i" or "b" frames preceding the failure point. 
I loaded Vanilla Sky segment into VideoRedo and found the same pattern of a long string of "P " frames without "i" or "b" frames preceding the failure point. I this case the failure results in a 1.5GB file (out of a total 9GB reported by TiVo desktop).

After searching this forum and finding this thread and reading several other posts regarding "failed transfers" dating back to 2006, it seems this is not a new issue that just popped up with hi def transfers. 
Looks like when transferring files to the PC TiVo's decoder/decrypter can't handle "video glitches" induced by a bad data stream, commercial insertion by the network, loss of data, etc.. and simply abandons the transfer mid file. The network I recorded both 1080i programs from UHD- is known to have a glitchy data stream to begin with. Even the cable company SA8300HD has playback problems with this particular channel.

So, here's my dilemma:
Spent $750 (TiVoHD/Lifetime act/tax) to get a DVR to *record then download the encrypted HD cable channels*.
I have a HTPC that I'm perfectly happy with to record/save the unencrypted HD QAM channels. 
Now, once I finally get the TiVioHD, have the cablecards installed, do the guided setup, do the recordings- upon trying to download the recordings, I find that if there's a big enough glitch in the recording- the transfer simply stops with no way to restart the transfer after the glitch point (and maybe rejoin the segments with VideoRedo, etc..). unfortunately, glitches in 1080i transmissions are a fact of life, some channels have more of them some have less- but they're not going away!

The big ?????...
Tivo needs to fix their software to "ignore" glitches when transferring files. The TiVo doesn't stop playing when it plays that same file back that has glitches- it just ignores the glitch and keeps playing.
So, is there any reason to believe that the folks at TiVo will fix this problem?
New TiVo owners have a 30 day full refund option, and I'm seriously considering taking advantage of it. 
Before I spent the $750 on the TiVoHD, I was able to record and watch the encrypted HD cable channels on the $12.95/month cable company DVR- I couldn't transfer the recorded HD files because of unsupported firewire to PC issues. After I spent $750 on the TiVoHD, I'm able to record and watch the encrypted HD cable channels on the TiVoHD- I still can't transfer the recorded HD files because of problems with TiVo's software when it encounters glitches in the data stream. I'm in the same position as before laying out $750 on the TiVoHD.
So, in the end... do I keep the TiVoHD and put my faith in the TiVo software guys- knowing they will fix the problem?
Or... do I return the TiVoHD before the 30 return policy expires- telling myself that TiVo has been aware of this "transfer fails with video glitches" problem for several years now and it's still happening without a solution?

I have about two weeks to decide if the TiVoHD stays or goes back.... right now I'm so disappointed I'm leaning towards returning it.

Update- Just recorded another 1080i encrypted program. Again the TTG transfer to my PC failed. This time it transferred 198MB of the 4.3GB file then failed. This is ridiculous! 
My wife is doing her Sunday cleaning and just asked me if I'm keeping the TiVo box... told her to save it! Using the same network and same PC- I've successfully transferred 100's of programs to PC from two different ReplayTV's. 
I'm 0 for 3 with the TiVoHD so far.


----------



## Lensman

Well, I don't feel comfortable advising you on your situation, but I am hopeful that this will get worked out in a future S3/HD software release.

In my case, it's about 1/4 - 1/3 of my HD content that is troublesome.

I've since upgraded my S3 to 2 TB (1TB internal + 1TB external) so I'm actually using my Tivo as an archiver for most of my content right now since it's got about the same capacity as my PC. This might be a decent stopgap measure for you while you're waiting for Tivo to fix the software glitch.

Downside is that it'll cost you about $250 each for the 1 TB drives. Upside is that that cost is recoverable if you decide to move outside of the Tivo family. I personally love having the extra space Tivo-side.

Oh, and you can use the 2 TB to archive untransferrable material as well as transferrable material. I guess that's another upside.

Good luck in your decision!


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## richsadams

I don't know if this will help but I was having the same issues with HD transfers both with our Series3 and our TiVo HD. (SD transfers were fine for the most part except when there was a glitch in the original recording as mentioned.) Some HD transfers would work, but with multiple errors and disconnects throughout and most of the time they failed, usually in the very same place. It turned out that my security software (Bit Defender) was to blame.

I had almost given up because I had tried just about everything...turning the firewall off, then anti virus, etc. but nothing seemed to work. As a last ditch effort I disconnected from the Internet so all I had to work with was my home network and eliminated all of my security programs from the loop. I unplugged my broadband connection from my router to ensure nothing evil would infiltrate my system and then shut down all of my PC's security software; firewall, anti virus, everything. Once I did that I tried the HD transfers again and all of them were successful and without a single error.

I haven't taken the time to isolate which part of the security program is interfering, but thought you might want to give that a try to see if it works. I used to have Norton and although I had some HD transfer problems, they usually worked. When I switched to Bit Defenders 2008 Security Suite (which is much more robust) the HD transfer problem arose.

Worst case you might want to run an Ethernet cable directly between TiVo and your PC to see if it's a network issue as well. (Possibly a crossover cable?)

The good news is that it does work and it works well when it does. Hope that helps and let us know what you end up doing...and if it works! :up:


----------



## sathead

Lensman & richsadams- Thanks for the input!

I did some more experimentation with the TiVoHD last night. I recorded some 720p content instead of 1080i content. I recorded two one hour shows from Fox-HD and one one hour show from ABC-HD. In all three cases, the 720p shows successfully downloaded to my PC via TiVo desktop. I even re-downloaded the two Fox 720p programs to my PC using Firefox and the other program with IE... without any transfer failures.
So, here's the breakdown as of today....

Two different PC's tried, both WinXp Pro SP2, NTFS hard drives, both hardwired Gigabit NIC's to 24 port Gigabit switch via cat5e , no antivirus sw, Windows firewall turned off on both PC's, no Zone alarm on either PC, no anti-spyware sw running on either.
TiVoHD- Hardwired to 24 port Gigabit switch via cat5e.

Three attempts to download 1080i content to PC using Tivo Desktop/Firefox/IE- all attempts failed during transfer

Three attempts to download 720p content to PC using Tivo Desktop/Firefox/IE- all attempts completed 100&#37;


----------



## richsadams

Well there's an "ah-ha" moment! I don't think I ran into any issues either way, but I can't be sure that everything I tried wasn't 720p only. I'll have to run some experiments of my own.

Thanks for the head's up. IIRC others on the forum have discussed transferring 1080i Vs 720p content issues...will have to do a search. I'm not sure what the cure is, but that's very good info and hopefully can be resolved. :up:


----------



## sathead

Well I'm not letting TiVo off the hook with this issue because to me it may be a dealbreaker for me. 
Even my lousy cable company rental box- SA8300HD DVR doesn't punt the firewire transfer if there's a glitch in the data- it's unacceptable that the TiVo does.
I started a thread over at the TiVo Help Forum and I don't mind being blunt with them. They advertise content downloads- so give it to me!
Here's the thread so far....
http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaysinglethread?rootPostID=10362851


----------



## richsadams

Good stuff. I'm not sure if it was you or someone else that mentioned having problems with editing HD files with VideoReDo. I had all sorts of problems, both video and audio as well, until I upgraded to VideoReDo TV Suite. After that everything worked perfectly when editing both HD and SD TiVo files. Just an FYI.

Keep us posted. :up:


----------



## moyekj

sathead said:


> Well I'm not letting TiVo off the hook with this issue because to me it may be a dealbreaker for me.
> Even my lousy cable company rental box- SA8300HD DVR doesn't punt the firewire transfer if there's a glitch in the data- it's unacceptable that the TiVo does.
> I started a thread over at the TiVo Help Forum and I don't mind being blunt with them. They advertise content downloads- so give it to me!
> Here's the thread so far....
> http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaysinglethread?rootPostID=10362851


FYI, I've transferred a few 1 hour 1080i as well as 720p recordings (from both OTA & cable channels) in the past using TTG without issue, so it's certainly not a general 1080i problem. Have you tried transfers from other 1080i channels? Do all 1080i transfers from various channels fail for you? If so perhaps there is some issue with Tivo and the local headend format of 1080i channels. Do you have the opportunity to record from a 1080i OTA (ATSC) channel? If so that would be interesting to see if the problem still happens there as well. If the 1080i OTA version works but the version from your local headend doesn't then that clearly points to something being done at headend incompatible with Tivo assumptions.


----------



## sathead

moyekj said:


> FYI, I've transferred a few 1 hour 1080i as well as 720p recordings (from both OTA & cable channels) in the past using TTG without issue, so it's certainly not a general 1080i problem. Have you tried transfers from other 1080i channels? Do all 1080i transfers from various channels fail for you? If so perhaps there is some issue with Tivo and the local headend format of 1080i channels. Do you have the opportunity to record from a 1080i OTA (ATSC) channel?


Hi moyekj,
I live too far from NYC to pull in OTA digital channels. 
I'm pretty much stuck with Brookhaven Cablevision- glitchy data stream and all...
So far I've recorded and attempted three transfers from two different cable 1080i HD channels- all three recorded successfully and three transfers failed. Tonight I'm recording "Medium" in 1080i on NBC-HD. Once the recording ends at 11PM, I will attempt to transfer it from the TiVoHD to both of my PC's.

I have an ongoing dialog with a TiVo support guy at the official TiVo Help Forum (http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaysinglethread?rootPostID=10362851&returnExpertiseCode=), and he is at least being honest. He says it's a software issue that will probably be addressed in a future update- but has no way to know when it will be addressed. It could be soon, or six months or more in the future.
So honestly, I'm on the keep it/return it fence right now.


----------



## richsadams

Did the TiVo CSR say if it was a TiVo software issue or a TiVo Desktop issue by chance? I know they are scheduled to release TiVo Desktop v2.6 in March. It's supposed to address a number of HD issues and have some new features.


----------



## CuriousMark

sathead said:


> I have an ongoing dialog with a TiVo support guy at the official TiVo Help Forum (http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaysinglethread?rootPostID=10362851&returnExpertiseCode=), and he is at least being honest. He says it's a software issue that will probably be addressed in a future update- but has no way to know when it will be addressed.


That forum is a peer support forum and we are all customers there. I do not work for TiVo, I just like to spend time there.

CuriousMark


----------



## CuriousMark

richsadams said:


> Did the TiVo CSR say if it was a TiVo software issue or a TiVo Desktop issue by chance? I know they are scheduled to release TiVo Desktop v2.6 in March. It's supposed to address a number of HD issues and have some new features.


I ain't no CSR, please take what I say with a grain of salt, it is as accurate as what you already know yourself.

Mainly I take what I learn here and try to help folks over there out. That is why I referred the poster to this thread, it is the best information on the issue that is available.

Personally, I think it is TiVo software that is failing. Remember when there was a rash of S2 transfer failures on video glitches a year or so ago? An update seemed to resolve or at least make it much less common. Also, people are reporting this problem even occurs on browser download, so I think that pretty much rules a Desktop problem out as the source.

CuriousMark


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## sathead

"CuriousMark" was the support person who was helping me over at the TiVo Help Forum. 
In my 2nd to last post there I asked him if the issues he and the other Allstars on the TiVo Help Forum get escalated to "official support" his reply was: *"TiVo employees read these forums and occasionally respond. But I was told that the statistics that govern what gets attention are based on the number of calls to the support line. Therefore I urge you to call it in!"*

Again I commend Mark for being honest, and in a PM to Mark I apologized for coming on a bit strong- I was under the impression that the AllStars were paid official TiVo support personnel... which they are not. They're unpaid volunteers with no "official" inside track to TiVo support who don't need to take crap from unhappy TiVo users (like me) on TiVo's behalf.

So, I'm going to call TiVo as Mark suggested and *****-N-moan about this problem. 
I'm either going to get a promise that it will be fixed with an extension on my return privilege window, or I will wait till the 29th day then return the TiVoHD for a full refund and TiVo will be out a customer.
I urge all others with the same issues call them too. If this is the only way to show up on TiVo's radar with an important issue... so be it!


----------



## TiVoJerry

As an employee, I am encouraged to read through these forums as time permits on a voluntary basis. I have not been able to do so recently (vacation, CES, holiday peak) but CuriousMark brought it to my attention. I have taken the detailed information reported here and on the TiVo Help Forum and reported it to engineering.

Hopefully they will be able to work with the information here. If not, I may contact people like HDTiVo or sathead for more information, possibly enabling diagnostic logging if engineering deems it necessary.

We understand issues like this can be very frustrating. Having just filed this, I don't know yet if this particular symptom is a known issue that has been worked on for some time or not. I know we had a similar issue in the past that was resolved. As such, I won't make any promises as to how quickly this particular issue might be resolved. 

sathead, I'd love to tell you we can make this right immediately, but that isn't something I can do at this moment. I will try to keep you updated as the investigation proceeds but these things can take time. I will not be able to extend your return window, so the decision to return is entirely yours to make. I can only state that we will do what we can as our resources & schedules allow.


----------



## sathead

TiVoJerry said:


> I have taken the detailed information reported here and on the TiVo Help Forum and reported it to engineering.
> 
> Hopefully they will be able to work with the information here. If not, I may contact people like HDTiVo or sathead for more information, possibly enabling diagnostic logging if engineering deems it necessary.
> 
> We understand issues like this can be very frustrating. Having just filed this, I don't know yet if this particular symptom is a known issue that has been worked on for some time or not. I know we had a similar issue in the past that was resolved. As such, I won't make any promises as to how quickly this particular issue might be resolved.


TiVoJerry...
I'll give you props for getting involved! Thank you very much.
If there's anything I can do, ie.. send a file, go over my settings, sniff packets, etc... please feel free to contact my via PM here or I'll give you my email info if you want to take off forum. I'm willing to put in time and effort as needed to help in any way I can to solve this issue.

Thanks again for getting involved, I feel we made a big step forward today!


----------



## ccrider2

sathead said:


> TiVoJerry...
> I'll give you props for getting involved! Thank you very much.
> If there's anything I can do, ie.. send a file, go over my settings, sniff packets, etc... please feel free to contact my via PM here or I'll give you my email info if you want to take off forum. I'm willing to put in time and effort as needed to help in any way I can to solve this issue.
> 
> Thanks again for getting involved, I feel we made a big step forward today!


TiVoJerry...
Same here, anything I can do on this end, let me know. A user of ReplayTV for years....the TiVo is waaay better. 
Even though I watch too much without it, now even more, I love it!

I am past my 30 day return, and the 90 day warranty is almost up (Jan 20th).
I have the HDMI lock-up, and partial transfer issues. 
Currently using Component input.... had to remove a DVD player to do that.
I've tried the HTTP transfer method, without success.

Thank's for reading our problems,

Chris


----------



## Dan203

Jerry I just want to be clear that there are actually two separate issues outlined in this thread...

1) A problem where TTG transfers fail partway.

2) A problem where HD material transferred back to a TiVo via TTCB display audio/video glitches.

#2 is of particular interest to me as I am one of the engineers behind VideoReDo and files edited with our product seem to have a greater chance of displaying these glitches. We've done a bit of research into the problem and found that certain multiplexer settings can help alleviate the problem, but we've yet to find anything that can eliminate it completely. Heck I've even run tests where I took a .tivo file, ran it through DirectShow Dump and then transferred that back to my S3 and it displayed glitches even though the original .tivo file does not. So perhaps something in the encryption/decryption phase of TTG is causing the issue.

Dan


----------



## sathead

Dan203 said:


> Jerry I just want to be clear that there are actually two separate issues outlined in this thread...
> 
> 1) A problem where TTG transfers fail partway.
> 
> 2) A problem where HD material transferred back to a TiVo via TTCB display audio/video glitches.
> 
> #2 is of particular interest to me as I am one of the engineers behind VideoReDo
> 
> Dan


Hi Dan,
VideoRedo is one flat-out excellent program.
I started out using Womble Mpeg2VCR for my ReplayTV files a few years back, but once I started doing hi-def captures with my HTPC I found it had issues with hi-def files. On the advice of others I tried VideoRedo... and haven't looked back since! I went for the TVSuite offer a few months back, really great product you guys put out.
Keep up the good work!


----------



## richsadams

Agreed, VideoReDo TV Suite is...sweet! No more issues with editing HD material. :up::up:

(Much nice GUI as well.)


----------



## TiVoJerry

Dan203 said:


> Jerry I just want to be clear that there are actually two separate issues outlined in this thread...
> 
> 1) A problem where TTG transfers fail partway.
> 
> 2) A problem where HD material transferred back to a TiVo via TTCB display audio/video glitches.
> 
> #2 is of particular interest to me as I am one of the engineers behind VideoReDo and files edited with our product seem to have a greater chance of displaying these glitches. We've done a bit of research into the problem and found that certain multiplexer settings can help alleviate the problem, but we've yet to find anything that can eliminate it completely. Heck I've even run tests where I took a .tivo file, ran it through DirectShow Dump and then transferred that back to my S3 and it displayed glitches even though the original .tivo file does not. So perhaps something in the encryption/decryption phase of TTG is causing the issue.
> 
> Dan


I am told that there are changes already in place for issue #1 in the next release of software that should address the problem.

From what I've been told today, we have someone in direct contact with you & the folks at VideoReDo. I know nothing more than that, so I can't speak any further to that particular issue. It is my understanding, and hope, that #2 will be addressed via comms on that path.


----------



## sathead

TiVoJerry said:


> I am told that there are changes already in place for issue #1 in the next release of software that should address the problem.


Thanks Jerry... thats welcome news!

Made some more recordings last night and here's my (surprising) observations:
- Recorded two hours of 1080i programming from CBS-HD (unencrypted channel).
Using TivoDesktop with one file and Firefox with the other- both recordings transferred 100% complete to my PC without interruption on the first try.

- Recorded one hour of 1080i programming from Family-HD (encrypted VOOM network channel).
Using TivoDesktop first and Firefox later- transfer failed to complete to my PC. Downloaded one second of the broadcast then failed- tried multiple times with always the same exact result- the first one second transfers then the transfer fails. Loaded that one second clip into VideoRedo- found 25 consecutive "P" frames at the end of the file.

- Recorded one hour of 1080i programming from Monster-HD (encrypted VOOM network channel).
Using TivoDesktop first and Firefox later- transfer failed to complete to my PC. Downloaded 11 minutes of the broadcast then failed- tried multiple times with always the same exact result- the first 11 minutes transfers then the transfer fails. Loaded that 11 min. clip into VideoRedo- found 23 consecutive "P" frames at the end of the file.

So, here's my results (which include my results form eariler recordings made since last Sunday) to date with transfers to PC:
- All recordings (720p & 1080i) from any *unencrypted HD channel* transferred successfully 100% of the time. Have tried at least 4 different recordings from CBS-HD, Fox-HD, and ABC-HD all transferred successfully.
- All recordings from any *encrypted HD channel* failed to completely transfer 100% of the time. I've tried 5 different recordings from 4 different encrypted HD channels now, and all 5 transfers have failed to complete.

In my case, it's clear that transfers from *unencrypted HD channels* transfer successfully to my PC 100% of the time. Any transfers from an *encrypted HD channel *fails to transfer to my PC 100% of the time.

Hope these observations are heplfull... Rob


----------



## gamo62

richsadams said:


> Good stuff. I'm not sure if it was you or someone else that mentioned having problems with editing HD files with VideoReDo. I had all sorts of problems, both video and audio as well, until I upgraded to VideoReDo TV Suite. After that everything worked perfectly when editing both HD and SD TiVo files. Just an FYI.
> 
> Keep us posted. :up:


I tried to use VideoReDo to edit out the commericals on the Sarah Connor Chronicles. The audio is choppy and doesn't even play right, even before I start to edit. Maybe it's because it was recorded at 1080? Nero Showtime play it fine. I'm at a loss as to why VideoReDo doesn't work on HD content. Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

gamo62 said:


> I tried to use VideoReDo to edit out the commericals on the Sarah Connor Chronicles. The audio is choppy and doesn't even play right, even before I start to edit. Maybe it's because it was recorded at 1080? Nero Showtime play it fine. I'm at a loss as to why VideoReDo doesn't work on HD content. Thanks.


That sounds frustrating. Are you using VideoReDo or VideoReDo TV Suite? I had the same problem with HD recordings using VideoReDo, but after I upgraded to VideoReDo TV Suite everything was fine.


----------



## gamo62

richsadams said:


> That sounds frustrating. Are you using VideoReDo or VideoReDo TV Suite? I had the same problem with HD recordings using VideoReDo, but after I upgraded to VideoReDo TV Suite everything was fine.


I tried using VRD Suite as well. Same issue. And you're right. It is frustrating. I do not know what else to try.


----------



## Dan203

gamo62 can you please shoot us an email at [email protected] so we can help you through this issue. This is just way off topic for this thread.

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## letsgomets

Add me to the list. With my new TiVo HD, some recordings transfer to the Tivo Desktop without a problem and some only transfer partially (the same portions over and over if I re-try). Haven't figured out why some worked and some didn't -- Jeopardy on ABC was fine, Boston Legal on the same channel was clipped and a movie on HBO was clipped. For the clipped programs Windows Media Player 11 showed even a shorter portion but it continued to play a little more even when it looked like it was at the end on the media player (but still clipped) -- for example, WMP11 showed that Boston Legal was only 7 minutes but there was really 22 minutes (I could only ff or rewind through the first 7).


----------



## gatisimo

I'm also a Cablevision subscriber (in NJ), and most of my HD recordings fail to transfer completely. I basically can't transfer anything from NatGeo HD or Discovery HD. I was able to complete HD transfers recorded on local networks, and even an oldish movie on TMC-HD.

Even on the transfers that complete, Media Player Classic reports a shorter video. The movie I mentioned above was 1:55:00, but in MPC it shows up as a 26-minute video.

Like satahead I'm a ReplayTV convert that got sick of the SA8300HD as well.

I'm excited to hear TivoJerry's news regarding an upcoming fix!


----------



## adambpsu

Just an FYI update...

As I posted before my NBC-HD transfers were failing to my Mac. I tried recording a show last night on PBS-HD and it fails to transfer too. I was hoping my problem (and other's) was limited to specific channels and/or a Cable distribution issue. Just wanted to let anyone out there reading this thread know any additional info. Hopefully a fix comes soon, I need to make room on my TiVo.

I also wanted to say thanks to TiVo Jerry for his help with this issue, as well as everyone else.


----------



## adambpsu

Here is something interesting...

I've been trying to transfer the show that I recorded on PBS-HD last night. Well it consistently fails around the 8.7 out of 9.1 GB mark. Frustrated, I tried to see if it would resume from where it failed. Well it did, and it kept on going. For some reason, TiVo Transfer has let the transfer continue past the reported file size of the program. I am now at a 10 GB of a file that was only reported to be 9.1 GB. Something with this entire process isn't right.


----------



## Burdy

sathead said:


> - Recorded two hours of 1080i programming from CBS-HD (unencrypted channel).
> Using TivoDesktop with one file and Firefox with the other- both recordings transferred 100% complete to my PC without interruption on the first try.
> 
> - Recorded one hour of 1080i programming from Family-HD (encrypted VOOM network channel).
> Using TivoDesktop first and Firefox later- transfer failed to complete to my PC. Downloaded one second of the broadcast then failed- tried multiple times with always the same exact result- the first one second transfers then the transfer fails. Loaded that one second clip into VideoRedo- found 25 consecutive "P" frames at the end of the file.
> 
> - Recorded one hour of 1080i programming from Monster-HD (encrypted VOOM network channel).
> Using TivoDesktop first and Firefox later- transfer failed to complete to my PC. Downloaded 11 minutes of the broadcast then failed- tried multiple times with always the same exact result- the first 11 minutes transfers then the transfer fails. Loaded that 11 min. clip into VideoRedo- found 23 consecutive "P" frames at the end of the file.
> 
> So, here's my results (which include my results form eariler recordings made since last Sunday) to date with transfers to PC:
> - All recordings (720p & 1080i) from any *unencrypted HD channel* transferred successfully 100% of the time. Have tried at least 4 different recordings from CBS-HD, Fox-HD, and ABC-HD all transferred successfully.
> - All recordings from any *encrypted HD channel* failed to completely transfer 100% of the time. I've tried 5 different recordings from 4 different encrypted HD channels now, and all 5 transfers have failed to complete.
> 
> In my case, it's clear that transfers from *unencrypted HD channels* transfer successfully to my PC 100% of the time. Any transfers from an *encrypted HD channel *fails to transfer to my PC 100% of the time.
> 
> Hope these observations are heplfull... Rob


I see you're on Cablevision-- they seem to cause more than their fair share of problems in this thread. While I can't say my feed has more than an occaisional obvious visual glitch (and I haven't analyzed the frame sequences), you can count me as another Cablevision subscriber (Mid Hudson Valley) with the same success rate- or lack thereof; i.e. successful transfer of unencrypted HD content (720P & 1080i), and 100% failure to completely transfer any recordings of encrypted HD channels (all that I have tried have been 1080i). Transfers quit prematurely at the same point every time.

I wonder if ANY Cablevision subscribers on NY/NJ systems can report successfully transferring a complete Voom HD recording, or any encrypted HD channel for that matter?


----------



## HDTiVo

Dan203 said:


> Jerry I just want to be clear that there are actually two separate issues outlined in this thread...
> 
> 1) A problem where TTG transfers fail partway.
> 
> 2) A problem where HD material transferred back to a TiVo via TTCB display audio/video glitches.
> 
> #2 is of particular interest to me as I am one of the engineers behind VideoReDo and files edited with our product seem to have a greater chance of displaying these glitches. We've done a bit of research into the problem and found that certain multiplexer settings can help alleviate the problem, but we've yet to find anything that can eliminate it completely. Heck I've even run tests where I took a .tivo file, ran it through DirectShow Dump and then transferred that back to my S3 and it displayed glitches even though the original .tivo file does not. So perhaps something in the encryption/decryption phase of TTG is causing the issue.
> 
> Dan


I believe #2 is limited to the S3. I haven't seen reports of THD or even SD material on S2s having the problem. This would be fortunate in that the number who suffer is limited.

It looks like a good body of evidence is forming that #1 is limited to 1080i content.


----------



## moyekj

HDTiVo said:


> It looks like a good body of evidence is forming that #1 is limited to 1080i content.


 I think the most significant finding thus far (posted by sathead) is that failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels. So far all my TTG transfers have been from unencrypted channels (both cable & OTA and both 720p and 1080i) and I haven't had any issues, which seems to further corroborate that finding.


----------



## greg_burns

moyekj said:


> I think the most significant finding thus far (posted by sathead) is that failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels. So far all my TTG transfers have been from unencrypted channels (both cable & OTA and both 720p and 1080i) and I haven't had any issues, which seems to further corroborate that finding.


Ditto. No encrypted channels to try and no failures yet, knock on wood.

You would think once an encrypted channel was allowed to be viewed by the cablecard and recorded to disk, there wouldn't be any difference from it and a non encrypted one.


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## HDTiVo

moyekj said:


> I think the most significant finding thus far (posted by sathead) is that failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels. So far all my TTG transfers have been from unencrypted channels (both cable & OTA and both 720p and 1080i) and I haven't had any issues, which seems to further corroborate that finding.


That's anecdotal and individual, and does not seem to be the case across the broad population.


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## VideoGrabber

HDTiVo commented:
> _It looks like a good body of evidence is forming that #1 is limited to 1080i content._ <

That's been my experience, across ~700 programs transferred.

moyekj noted:
> _...failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels_ <

That's not what I have observed. The vast majority (by far) has been NBC-HD programming, with a 90+% failure rate, and always stopping transfer within 60-90 seconds, at exactly the same byte (though they play back flawlessly on my S3). There have been a handful of failures on the cable encrypted channels, but they're the exception by far, and I record a lot more of those.

Luckily, in those cases I can usually just schedule capture of another airing, with no permanent loss. But I get only one-shot at Chuck, Bionic Woman, Las Vegas, the Office, Life, etc. And I've had at least 2 failures on each of those, before giving up and switching over to recording them via firewire to tape. Which is what I bought the TiVo to avoid.

- Tim


----------



## sathead

VideoGrabber said:


> HDTiVo commented:
> > _It looks like a good body of evidence is forming that #1 is limited to 1080i content._ <
> 
> That's been my experience, across ~700 programs transferred.
> 
> moyekj noted:
> > _...failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels_ <
> 
> That's not what I have observed. The vast majority (by far) has been NBC-HD programming, with a 90+% failure rate... I get only one-shot at Chuck, Bionic Woman, Las Vegas, the Office, Life, etc. And I've had at least 2 failures on each of those, before giving up and switching over to recording them via firewire to tape. Which is what I bought the TiVo to avoid.
> 
> - Tim


I agree, it's very frustrating and stressful to rely on the TiVo to properly record and successfully transfer "one time showing" programs to your PC.

In my case, I've gone back to recording hi-def programs from the unencrypted networks (CBS-HD,NBC-HD,FOX-HD and ABC-HD) using my HTPC rather than the TiVoHD. 
In the 18 months I've capturing HD with my HTPC it's never missed, dumped or simply fraked-up a recording so badly that it cant be saved. The most frustrating issue by far (other than the occasional BSOD issue: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365824&highlight=bsod) is that we can record these programs and watch them using the TiVo... we just can't transfer them to our PC's.


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## HDTiVo

VideoGrabber said:


> Luckily, in those cases I can usually just schedule capture of another airing, with no permanent loss.


I think you are the first to test different showings of the same program. Have you specifically checked to see if you in fact are having the P frame anomoly?


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## richsadams

sathead said:


> In my case, I've gone back to recording hi-def programs from the unencrypted networks (CBS-HD,NBC-HD,FOX-HD and ABC-HD) using my HTPC rather than the TiVoHD. In the 18 months I've capturing HD with my HTPC it's never missed, dumped or simply fraked-up a recording so badly that it cant be saved.


A bit off topic, but what A/V program(s) are you using for your HTPC? I'm getting frustrated by the periodic problems transferring recordings using TiVo Desktop too. I've used other PC A/V programs and all of them had serious shortcomings of some nature. Just wondering if you've found one that is worthwhile (which it sounds like you have). TIA.


----------



## sathead

Just tried to download last night's recording of the movie "Stealth" from the encrypted station TNT-HD. 
TiVoDesktop shows the file to be 10GB which is about right because it was 2.5hrs long including commercials. Started transferring from my TiVoHD to my PC then the transfer stopped after only 160MB had transferred. Loaded that 2min35sec clip into VideoRedo- found 59 "P" frames preceded the end of the file.
Successfully transferred two episodes of "How it's Made" from the SD analog discovery channel immediately after failed transfer of "Stealth". 

I have never 100% successfully completed the transfer of any recording from any encrypted channel to my PC since I've owned the TiVoHD. 

No transfer of a recording from a SD analog or unencrypted digital/hi-def channel has ever failed to transfer 100% complete.


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## sathead

richsadams said:


> A bit off topic, but what A/V program(s) are you using for your HTPC? I'm getting frustrated by the periodic problems transferring recordings using TiVo Desktop too. I've used other PC A/V programs and all of them had serious shortcomings of some nature. Just wondering if you've found one that is worthwhile (which it sounds like you have). TIA.


I use the AutumnWave OnAir-GT USB Capture device: http://www.autumnwave.com/ to capture SD analog and unencrypted hi-def QAM programming from cable, it also does OTA analog and digital/hi-def too.
It comes with the capture program and the Nvidia PureVideo codecs. You edit your hi-def and analog recordings with VideoRedo. There's a very long & informative thread at AVS Forum which includes day to day posts/replies from Ryan, a tech support rep from AutumnWave: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695589
I'm 100% happy with the OnAir-GT as it just does it's job 100% of the time.
Here's a detailed review: http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/onairgtdetailreview.html

PS.. you schedule your OnAir-GT recordings with one mouse click using TitanTV on the web. Your computer wakes from sleep or hibernation, records, then goes back to sleep/hibernation till next recording. It also has 180min timeshift/live pause with full navigation for digital stations with 15 & 30 second skip fwd and rew on the included remote (or use your Harmony remote- the OnAir-GT ir codes are in the Harmony database) 

PPS: If you're interested- look at the bottom of the page of the review site I listed- there's a $20 off coupon code there, which gives you free shipping too.


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## richsadams

sathead said:


> I use the AutumnWave OnAir-GT USB Capture device: http://www.autumnwave.com/ to capture SD analog and unencrypted hi-def QAM programming from cable, it also does OTA analog and digital/hi-def too.
> <snip>


Excellent! I'll look into that. Thanks for the terrific advice! :up:


----------



## mux1

moyekj said:


> I think the most significant finding thus far (posted by sathead) is that failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels. So far all my TTG transfers have been from unencrypted channels (both cable & OTA and both 720p and 1080i) and I haven't had any issues, which seems to further corroborate that finding.


I am OTA only, no encrypted channels. I too have transfers that fail to complete at what seems to be random places in random recordings. *This problem is not limited to encrypted channels only, and I can confirm it DOES happen on OTA recordings.*


----------



## Burdy

moyekj said:


> I think the most significant finding thus far (posted by sathead) is that failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels. So far all my TTG transfers have been from unencrypted channels (both cable & OTA and both 720p and 1080i) and I haven't had any issues, which seems to further corroborate that finding.


For what it's worth, I don't seem to have a problem transferring encrypted 480i recordings. Cablevision here encrypts History International, TCM, and other SD channels and I've transferred many of those without problems. However, the combo of 1080i and encryption is thus far (for me anyway) a reliable predictor of transfer failure.


----------



## ccrider2

moyekj said:


> I think the most significant finding thus far (posted by sathead) is that failures seem to happen for cable encrypted channels, not unencrypted channels. So far all my TTG transfers have been from unencrypted channels (both cable & OTA and both 720p and 1080i) and I haven't had any issues, which seems to further corroborate that finding.


I am also OTA only, no encrypted channels. I have transfers that fail to complete at the same spots in a few recordings. When I get around to it, I'm planning to direct connect the PC and TiVo, to see if that works.

Chris


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## VideoGrabber

Chris,

I have my S3 directly connected to my PC, and it makes no difference.

Burdy commented:
> _the combo of 1080i and encryption is thus far (for me anyway) a reliable predictor of transfer failure._ <

I've transferred hundreds of 1080i programs from encrypted channels without any problems.

- Tim


----------



## greg_burns

VideoGrabber said:


> Chris,
> 
> I have my S3 directly connected to my PC, and it makes no difference.
> 
> Burdy commented:
> > _the combo of 1080i and encryption is thus far (for me anyway) a reliable predictor of transfer failure._ <
> 
> I've transferred hundreds of 1080i programs from encrypted channels without any problems.
> 
> - Tim


So what are you saying? It makes no difference because you are still seeing failures or not? 

I also have my S3 directly connected (hard wired) as well and never had a failure, but I've only done a handful.


----------



## threeeyedtoad

Hello, TCF members. I just yesterday encountered what appears to be the same problem you've been discussing here for several weeks. I have a three-week old Tivo HD, using a pair of Cable Cards along with Verizon FiOS service in the Boston metro area (therefore tentatively verifying this issue beyond Cablevision subscribers).

About a week ago, I successfully transferred 100% of a 1080i recording ("Jericho" off Universal HD).

Last night, I made several attempts (both through TiVo Desktop and through the web interface) to pull two episodes of "Nova" (from WGBH HD) off my TiVo HD. Both episodes failed after only a minute or so, resulting in a ~5 Mb file (about 10 seconds long) and a ~30 Mb file (about a minute). Looking at each of these files in VideoRedo, there was a long string of about 10-20 "P" frames prior to the file end.

I believe the "Nova" episodes were 1080i, same as the episode of "Jericho" that successfully transferred without issue.

One question: how can I determine if a particular channel I'm watching/recording is encrypted or not? Having only recently entered the DTV/HD era, I'm not familiar with how this can be determined.

Anything else I can offer that might help the Powers That Be in narrowing down the issue?

Thanks!


----------



## sathead

threeeyedtoad said:


> One question: how can I determine if a particular channel I'm watching/recording is encrypted or not? Having only recently entered the DTV/HD era, I'm not familiar with how this can be determined.
> 
> Anything else I can offer that might help the Powers That Be in narrowing down the issue?
> 
> Thanks!


Generally speaking- and we are referring to the digital stations- not analog, only the major networks are not encrypted- CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, and your other local broadcast OTA (Over The Air) channels that your cable provider gives you the digital feed for. All the other national HD channels- TNT-HD, UHD, TBS-HD, all the VOOM HD channels, Discovery-HD, MOJO, NGC-HD, etc ... are all encrypted. 
There is probably a way to see the encryption status via the cable card diagnostic menu while tuned to that particular channel, but I haven't had the Tivo long enough to be that familiar with all the diagnostic screens.


----------



## threeeyedtoad

sathead said:


> Generally speaking- and we are referring to the digital stations- not analog, only the major networks are not encrypted- CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, and your other local broadcast OTA (Over The Air) channels that your cable provider gives you the digital feed for. All the other national HD channels- TNT-HD, UHD, TBS-HD, all the VOOM HD channels, Discovery-HD, MOJO, NGC-HD, etc ... are all encrypted.
> There is probably a way to see the encryption status via the cable card diagnostic menu while tuned to that particular channel, but I haven't had the Tivo long enough to be that familiar with all the diagnostic screens.


Hmmm... since I don't have any VOOM HD channels (not a satellite or Cablevision subscriber), I can't test TTG features with content recorded from those channels. I have no idea if the PBS station I was recording from was encrypted or not (though I might guess it wasn't, since it is locally broadcast OTA in HD). Since my previous (successful) experience with TTG was with content from Universal HD, which you mentioned is likely encrypted, I would hazard a guess that my failure to get Nova off my TiVo HD this weekend was unrelated to the encryption status of the program source. (Besides, as others have noted, I would expect the encryption status of a program is fairly moot, since any content that makes it to TiVo's tuner should already be "in the clear".)

So, data points are:

- 1 1080i program 100% complete TTG transfer from encrypted channel
- 2 1080i programs 100% failure TTG transfer, which appeared to have funky "P" frame encodings

I can start futzing around with security/firewall issues this evening.


----------



## sathead

threeeyedtoad said:


> Hello, TCF members. I just yesterday encountered what appears to be the same problem you've been discussing here for several weeks.
> Anything else I can offer that might help the Powers That Be in narrowing down the issue?
> 
> Thanks!


Just be sure to call TiVo and ***** about the problem- that's the only way to "officially" log your complaint. What we say here isn't officially noted.


----------



## VideoGrabber

Greg inquired:
> _So what are you saying? It makes no difference because you are still seeing failures or not?_ <

My apologies for any confusion, if I was unclear.

My first reply was to Chris, who was going to try a direct connection to see if that eliminated any of the problems he was having. I was just letting him know that I still was seeing the same problems, even with the direct connection.

My second response to Burdy was to contradict his "_reliable predictor of transfer failure_". His "_combo of 1080i and encryption_" has presented no problems to me on hundreds of successful transfers. OTOH, unencrypted 1080i sources with the P-frame anomalies (NBC-HD) consistently result in non-TTGable programs.

- Tim


----------



## Burdy

VideoGrabber said:


> My second response to Burdy was to contradict his "_reliable predictor of transfer failure_". His "_combo of 1080i and encryption_" has presented no problems to me on hundreds of successful transfers. OTOH, unencrypted 1080i sources with the P-frame anomalies (NBC-HD) consistently result in non-TTGable programs.
> 
> - Tim


My intent in that post was to supply another data point regarding TTG success/failure with the feed on my cable system, and not to imply that encrypted 1080i feeds are the root cause of the problems being discussed in this thread.

Based on what I've read here so far, I'd be inclined to expect the same P-frame anomalies in my failed downloads as well (as I said before I haven't analyzed the frames). Since I haven't yet had failures transferring content on clear QAM channels, I do wonder if there is some processing of the HD content that Cablevision chooses to encrypt which makes it more likely to include these frame anomalies. I don't claim to have done hundreds of transfers, but based on the dozens I've tried, if the cause was a random glitch in the feed I'd expect to see a few failures on the clear HD (or encrypted 480i) transfers as well.


----------



## SeanC

I recorded the Pats/Chargers game this past weekend. I've tried downloading it with TD, FF and IE; everytime it gets to 2295 MB the transfer ends.

Am I SOL as far as getting this recording off my Tivo goes?


----------



## threeeyedtoad

I've followed the guidance offered by others experiencing TTG difficulties using their HD boxes, and called TiVo tech support today to log my problem. I encourage others to do the same, in an effort to raise the priority within TiVo's engineering group:

http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/contactus/phonesupport.html

They will ask about the standard set of resolutions before escalating the issue to a customer service investigator. You should try the transfers after power-cycling the TiVo, the TTG destination computer, and any routers in use. Also, try the transfers without firewall/anti-virus, and without any other apps open on the TTG destination computer.


----------



## sathead

SeanC said:


> I recorded the Pats/Chargers game this past weekend. I've tried downloading it with TD, FF and IE; every time it gets to 2295 MB the transfer ends.
> 
> Am I SOL as far as getting this recording off my Tivo goes?


Pretty much SOL unless you keep the recording till TiVo fixes the problem, or you record it to std def to your PC via capture card, etc.
AFAIK I haven't seen any posts here where someone kept retrying the same transfer and it somehow worked after many attempts... if it was only that easy


----------



## SeanC

Wow that's a real bummer. I've done a lot of transfers and this is the first time I've had a problem, and it really sucks because I was going to use that game as a test run on making a DVD. I've made DVDs before from my old S1 but never out of HD from my S3....

Crap


----------



## sathead

SeanC said:


> Wow that's a real bummer. I've done a lot of transfers and this is the first time I've had a problem, and it really sucks because I was going to use that game as a test run on making a DVD. I've made DVDs before from my old S1 but never out of HD from my S3....
> 
> Crap


Have you successfully transferred hi-def recordings to your PC with this TiVo/PC combination before?


----------



## SeanC

Yep, many times. I've done lots of Modern Marvels HD one of them was 2 hours and was more than 30GB.


----------



## threeeyedtoad

SeanC said:


> Wow that's a real bummer. I've done a lot of transfers and this is the first time I've had a problem, and it really sucks because I was going to use that game as a test run on making a DVD. I've made DVDs before from my old S1 but never out of HD from my S3....
> 
> Crap


Something else to consider, which I haven't attempted myself:

Since you're planning on going to standard definition (DVD) anyway, you may want to attempt a MRV transfer from your HD TiVo to the S1. If all goes well, it should do the "right" thing, and allow the game to be converted down to standard def MPG on the S1. You should then be able to extract the program using TTG from the S1.

Has anyone else tried such a process with a program that was failing using TTG directly from HD?


----------



## sathead

As a new TiVo user- I figured I'd do my part, so I called TiVo telephone support and reported the "failed transfers" issue and the "BSOD" issue. 
The CSR was really excellent and she seemed aware of, and knowledgeable on both issues. 
I was told the BSOD issue is being addressed as we speak and will be fixed in a future (hopefully in the next) update. 
The "failed transfer" issue seems to be at the "still collecting data" point and I was asked several questions regarding my failed TiVo Desktop and http transfer attempts. I offered as much info directly relating to my attempts as I had. My case is being escalated and I was told to expect a callback.

PS- When I mentioned that I have till Feb 7th 2008 to return the TiVoHD + Lifetime service and I'm intending to just that unless I get a promise in writing that the failed transfers issue will be fixed- the CSR offered to extend my return period another 30 days after the original Feb 7th 2008 deadline. I told her I'll call back tonight to verify that my account has been noted with that important info regarding the 30 day full refund/return extension.
So, all in all- I'm pretty happy with the results of that phone call to TiVo tech support.

*EVERYONE WHO'S EXPERIENCING FAILED TRANSFERS- PLEASE CALL 877-367-8486 AND GIVE THEM YOUR INFO. 
IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET THIS PROBLEM ADDRESSED. IT ONLY TOOK ME 15 MIN TO OFFICIALLY LOG IN MY COMPLAINT WITH TIVO.*


----------



## greg_burns

threeeyedtoad said:


> Something else to consider, which I haven't attempted myself:
> 
> Since you're planning on going to standard definition (DVD) anyway, you may want to attempt a MRV transfer from your HD TiVo to the S1. If all goes well, it should do the "right" thing, and allow the game to be converted down to standard def MPG on the S1. You should then be able to extract the program using TTG from the S1.
> 
> Has anyone else tried such a process with a program that was failing using TTG directly from HD?


Won't work. You can't transfer HD programs to an S1 or S2.


----------



## SeanC

Oh the S1 is long gone. My only option is to dump it to my HTPC via "Save to VCR."


----------



## steve614

greg_burns said:


> Won't work. You can't transfer HD programs to an S1 or S2.


_Some_ programs will transfer*, they just won't be playable.

* While browsing my TivoHD from my S2, I noticed one of the HD videos that I had transferred from the computer was available for MRV.
Just for grins, I transferred it.
The file played and had audio, but no video.


----------



## Langree

I guess I've been lucky, I"ve transferred all 3 nights of Comanche Moon in HD to my comp and successfully burned them to SD DVD>


----------



## threeeyedtoad

Spoke to a TiVo CSR today (I was following up on the case I logged earlier this week). After asking the CSR to check for me, they put me on hold while they checked, and finally returned to the line to assure me that I am not the only one reporting this issue (big surprise!), and that they hoped to address the issue with a software update "soon" (they wouldn't commit to a date).

Keep calling TiVo, folks! Let them hear your pain!


----------



## TiVo Steve

threeeyedtoad said:


> Spoke to a TiVo CSR today (I was following up on the case I logged earlier this week). After asking the CSR to check for me, they put me on hold while they checked, and finally returned to the line to assure me that I am not the only one reporting this issue (big surprise!), and that they hoped to address the issue with a software update "soon" (they wouldn't commit to a date).
> 
> Keep calling TiVo, folks! Let them hear your pain!


What issue?


----------



## VideoGrabber

TiVo Steve asked:
> _What issue?_ <

The Truncated Transfer issue.

I.e., the issue of 9.2a being unable to TTG video streams with improperly formatted GOPs to a PC (multiple consecutive P-frames). They get truncated and terminated by the code handling the wrapping and transmission, and appear to be limited to 1080i-HD programming.

This can happen almost immediately (virtually all of my NBC-HD recordings), or anywhere from 10-90% of a file transmission, depending on where these glitches are located. Either my NBC affiliate, or the statmux it passes through at my cableco must do this constantly, because I never get more than about 60 seconds transferred, no matter where I start a recording within a program from NBC.

- Tim


----------



## sathead

This is such a frustrating issue because it's completely stream glitch related.
This weekend I was able to transfer one recording of Battlestar Galactica from my TiVoHD to my PC, yet another episode of Battlestar Galactica recorded from the same channel fails about 1/3 through the transfer. I was also able to transfer recordings from various premium HD channels- 8MM, Aeon Flux, The Prestige (11GB long!) and last night's showing of The Empire Strikes Back (10GB long!) from HBO-HD. 
But.... several shows from the same premium HD channels failed- Eragon, Mission to Mars, and one episode of Battlestar Galactica all recorded but fail during the transfer. 

This is a major pain in the butt!


----------



## TiVoJerry

I just wanted to let you all know that it looks like we have a handle on the problem for the majority of transfer failures. Testing is looking real good for this issue. We're still a short while away from the release that carries it but I will try to remember to post here when the priority page goes up so you can see for yourself.

Thank you all for your patience.


----------



## adambpsu

Thanks for the update TiVoJerry. I am glad to hear that TiVo is working on a solution, as this problem has been driving me crazy.


----------



## sathead

TiVoJerry said:


> I just wanted to let you all know that it looks like we have a handle on the problem for the majority of transfer failures. Testing is looking real good for this issue. We're still a short while away from the release that carries it but I will try to remember to post here when the priority page goes up so you can see for yourself.
> 
> Thank you all for your patience.


Thank you Jerry! That's very encouraging news. 
If you want a beta tester... let me know, there's nothing on my TiVo that's important to lose in case of a wipe-out.

If the upgrade works as planned and transfers are fixed- will the content that has repeatedly failed to transfer that's on the hard drive now transfer after the software update. Guess what I'm asking is it worth while hanging on to failed transfer recordings to try them again after the software update?


----------



## TiVoJerry

sathead said:


> If the upgrade works as planned and transfers are fixed- will the content that has repeatedly failed to transfer that's on the hard drive now transfer after the software update. Guess what I'm asking is it worth while hanging on to failed transfer recordings to try them again after the software update?


Yes, previously affected programs should be transferrable after the update.


----------



## sathead

TiVoJerry said:


> Yes, previously affected programs should be transferrable after the update.


Even better news!
Thanks again Jerry


----------



## richsadams

Thanks Jerry. Knowing that your folks are working on this means a lot. :up:


----------



## Lensman

This is great news. I can't wait to help test this. I have several known nontransferable shows that I can test with!


----------



## mux1

What a great thing for me to read this evening, thanks for the info TiVoJerry! The one issue I have with my TiVo HD will finally be fixed and all those Christmas shows I've recorded for my son will make it to the PC....yay!


----------



## denngir

Hey everyone,

I have been trying to transfer a program from my TiVo S3 to my PC but it fails every time. The program that I am trying to transfer is the 10:00 news, i am trying to get a clip for work. When the transfer begins it will only download about 1 to 2MB of the file. I am fairly new to the TiVo scene, so I am trying to figure out what is going on....The channels that I am trying to transfer from are CBS and NBC, my local channels. I have tried on several other channels, and the transfer completes just fine. I have tried using the desktop program, and logging directly into my TiVo, all with the same results.

Please assist me with getting this program to transfer.

Thanks,
DennGir


----------



## richsadams

denngir said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I have been trying to transfer a program from my TiVo S3 to my PC but it fails every time.
> Please assist me with getting this program to transfer.
> 
> Thanks,
> DennGir


Sometimes when I can't get a recording to transfer w/TiVo Desktop I use a little software program called TiVoPlayList. Once you've installed the program you can access your TiVo via your PC. This is different from accessing TiVo by just using the IP address as it has some more features.

You'll need your TiVo's I.P. address. It sounds like you already have it but if not just open TiVo Desktop and click on Server > TiVo Server Properties > Access Control or go to TiVo Central > Messages & Settings > Settings > Phone & Network to get your TiVo's IP number. To set the program up you'll also be asked for a user name and password. Use tivo as the user name, and your MAK (Media Access Key) as the password. To get your MAK go to TiVo Central > Messages & Settings > Account & System Information > Media Access Key or you can get it by logging into your TiVo account on line.

Once you set up TiVoPlayList with your TiVo's info click on "Save" next to the recording. The destination should be the "My TiVo Recordings" folder on your PC's hard drive.










Now and then I have to close and open the program and hit save a couple of times to get it to work without an error message. Other times it works right away.

If you want to just save a particular news story I can highly recommend VideoReDo TVSuite to edit .tivo files and save them as mpeg's.

BTW, is it possible the news story you're after is in the first part of the recording that _is _transferring? You should still be able to view the part of the file that is being transferred.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.


----------



## moyekj

denngir said:


> The channels that I am trying to transfer from are CBS and NBC, my local channels. I have tried on several other channels, and the transfer completes just fine. I have tried using the desktop program, and logging directly into my TiVo, all with the same results.
> 
> Please assist me with getting this program to transfer.
> 
> Thanks,
> DennGir


 That's been the thrust of this whole thread - the fact that for some people some TTG transfers just fail at different points. If you read just a couple of posts up TivoPony has indicated Tivo knows what the problem is and a fix is forthcoming.

If you need a shorter term means to obtain recordings you should consider recording the snippet(s) you need from the Tivo SD analog outputs (S-video or composite) either using a VCR or a DVD recorder if you have one, or a series 2 Tivo or some other DVR that accepts analog inputs. For example 1 possibility is to feed a VCR from your S3 via S-video or composite and then connect the VCR RF output to the cable input of your S3 and do a manual recording from cable channel 3 (or whatever channel you set your VCR modulator to output). You shouldn't have any trouble then transferring the manual recordings from your S3 to your PC.


----------



## threeeyedtoad

richsadams said:


> Sometimes when I can't get a recording to transfer w/TiVo Desktop I use a little software program called TiVoPlayList.


I hadn't seen this application mentioned anywhere else in this thread, and didn't know if others had tried it and succeeded in pulling HD files that were previously truncated. (I would have tried it myself, but am currently unable to connect to the FTP site where the download is hosted.)

So -- has anyone tried this with the previously un-downloadable HD content from their HD TiVos? Any successes/failures to report back?


----------



## ah30k

Jerry,
Can you say whether or not this problem is just for HD content. I am seeing failed transfers of SD digital shows and am not sure if I can expect this fix to apply to me as well.

Thanks


----------



## moyekj

threeeyedtoad said:


> I hadn't seen this application mentioned anywhere else in this thread, and didn't know if others had tried it and succeeded in pulling HD files that were previously truncated. (I would have tried it myself, but am currently unable to connect to the FTP site where the download is hosted.)
> 
> So -- has anyone tried this with the previously un-downloadable HD content from their HD TiVos? Any successes/failures to report back?


 All these applications ultimately use the same http method for downloading content so I highly doubt it makes any difference. I have this application for Free Space viewing but don't use it for downloading content, but I also don't have any transfer issues.


----------



## richsadams

threeeyedtoad said:


> I hadn't seen this application mentioned anywhere else in this thread, and didn't know if others had tried it and succeeded in pulling HD files that were previously truncated. (I would have tried it myself, but am currently unable to connect to the FTP site where the download is hosted.)
> 
> So -- has anyone tried this with the previously un-downloadable HD content from their HD TiVos? Any successes/failures to report back?


As mentioned, yes, I've been able to get both HD and SD downloads to work with TiVoPlayList that refused to complete with TiVo Desktop. I've no idea why, but in my case I'm pretty sure it has something to do with my BitDefender Security Suite. It seems to "ignore" things downloading via TiVoPlayList, but loves to interfere with TiVo Desktop (particularly with HD recordings)...often throwing various errors or causing the transfer to temporarily stop or quit all together. In any case, when one doesn't work the other has.

I think I mentioned it before; if both methods fail I disconnect from the Internet, shut down my security software completely and then the transfers go through without a hitch w/TiVo Desktop. YMMV of course.


----------



## denngir

richsadams said:


> Sometimes when I can't get a recording to transfer w/TiVo Desktop I use a little software program called TiVoPlayList. Once you've installed the program you can access your TiVo via your PC. This is different from accessing TiVo by just using the IP address as it has some more features.
> 
> You'll need your TiVo's I.P. address. It sounds like you already have it but if not just open TiVo Desktop and click on Server > TiVo Server Properties > Access Control or go to TiVo Central > Messages & Settings > Settings > Phone & Network to get your TiVo's IP number. To set the program up you'll also be asked for a user name and password. Use tivo as the user name, and your MAK (Media Access Key) as the password. To get your MAK go to TiVo Central > Messages & Settings > Account & System Information > Media Access Key or you can get it by logging into your TiVo account on line.
> 
> Once you set up TiVoPlayList with your TiVo's info click on "Save" next to the recording. The destination should be the "My TiVo Recordings" folder on your PC's hard drive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now and then I have to close and open the program and hit save a couple of times to get it to work without an error message. Other times it works right away.
> 
> If you want to just save a particular news story I can highly recommend VideoReDo TVSuite to edit .tivo files and save them as mpeg's.
> 
> BTW, is it possible the news story you're after is in the first part of the recording that _is _transferring? You should still be able to view the part of the file that is being transferred.
> 
> Good luck and let us know how it goes.


Complete life saver.....Thanks Rich....My boss is ecstatic that I was able to get this to work!!!!!


----------



## threeeyedtoad

moyekj said:


> All these applications ultimately use the same http method for downloading content so I highly doubt it makes any difference. I have this application for Free Space viewing but don't use it for downloading content, but I also don't have any transfer issues.


I confirmed this tonight... The transfers fail just the same, at exactly the same frame, using TiVoPlayList.

At least the graphic representation of disk usage is kinda neet...


----------



## richsadams

denngir said:


> Complete life saver.....Thanks Rich....My boss is ecstatic that I was able to get this to work!!!!!


Great...now's hit him up for that raise!


----------



## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Sometimes when I can't get a recording to transfer w/TiVo Desktop I use a little software program called TiVoPlayList. Once you've installed the program you can access your TiVo via your PC. This is different from accessing TiVo by just using the IP address as it has some more features...............


Good to hear some have had success with TiVoPlayList. I'm still stopping on the same byte count with TiVoPlayList.

Sure hope TiVo Jerry's info, on an upcomming fix, works out. Maby they will fix the HDMI lock-up problem also. Then I could use the DVD player again.

I'd be one happy camper! 

Chris


----------



## sathead

ccrider2 said:


> Good to hear some have had success with TiVoPlayList. I'm still stopping on the same byte count with TiVoPlayList.


Same results here, the file transfer stops on the same exact frame using TiVoPlayList as it did using IE, Firefox and TiVo Desktop.

If TiVo fixes the transfer issue, I may continue to use TiVoPlayList because it shows disk usage and it's a very small app.


----------



## Laserfan

I hope TivoJerry will come-back here and give us all a HINT as to what they've found that's problematic i.e. what they've fixed.

I have followed this thread with interest because while I've had problems w/TTCB I have NEVER, EVER had a failed transfer from my S3 to my PC of any kind, 1080i, 720p, short program, long program, you name it. I've noted richadams problem with security software interference, and another member here has stated his belief that the Tivo can't deal with 100baseT transfer speeds, and of course the thrust of this thread has had to do with the belief there is something in the programs themselves at issue.

Such a mystery invites a complete accounting. My money's on Miss Scarlet in the Ballroom with the Candlestick!


----------



## moyekj

Laserfan said:


> I hope TivoJerry will come-back here and give us all a HINT as to what they've found that's problematic i.e. what they've fixed.


 I highly doubt Tivo will divulge what was going wrong. We do know that for TTG there is some demuxing of the mpeg2 transport stream and then muxing to an encrypted mpeg2 program stream (which is why TTG process is CPU limited and never gets close to 100Mbps), so my guess would be some kind of failure in these demuxing/muxing steps. If it was something else then MRV transfers (which don't need to do any muxing/demuxing) of these troublesome programs would also fail (which they don't).

I remember for a program called HDTV2MPEG2 which takes mpeg2 transport streams and converts to mpeg2 program streams there used to be issues doing the conversion to program stream in the early days of the program due to glitches in the transport stream. Eventually revisions of the program were written to workaround those problems.


----------



## Laserfan

Yes; I'm surprised still that I haven't seen any of these transfer issues myself--my recordings can't always be perfect, and others can't ever get a transfer completed PERIOD.

Hey anyone here have a good link to TivoPlayList? The author's ftp site appears down and Community member greg_burns' copy shows here as corrupt...


----------



## moyekj

Laserfan said:


> Yes; I'm surprised still that I haven't seen any of these transfer issues myself--my recordings can't always be perfect, and others can't ever get a transfer completed PERIOD.
> 
> Hey anyone here have a good link to TivoPlayList? The author's ftp site appears down and Community member greg_burns' copy shows here as corrupt...


 This Greg Burns copy unzips fine for me:
http://home.comcast.net/~greg_burns/TivoPlayList/Setup_TiVoPlayList_v060.zip


----------



## greg_burns

Laserfan said:


> Hey anyone here have a good link to TivoPlayList? The author's ftp site appears down and Community member greg_burns' copy shows here as corrupt...


David must have that hosted on a server in his bedroom.


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> I hope TivoJerry will come-back here and give us all a HINT as to what they've found that's problematic i.e. what they've fixed.
> 
> I have followed this thread with interest because while I've had problems w/TTCB I have NEVER, EVER had a failed transfer from my S3 to my PC of any kind, 1080i, 720p, short program, long program, you name it. I've noted richadams problem with security software interference, and another member here has stated his belief that the Tivo can't deal with 100baseT transfer speeds, and of course the thrust of this thread has had to do with the belief there is something in the programs themselves at issue.
> 
> Such a mystery invites a complete accounting. My money's on Miss Scarlet in the Ballroom with the Candlestick!


Agreed, it would be nice to have a peek under the tent. Since some people's transfers are stopping at the same place whether they use TiVo Desktop or an I.P. method, my WAG would be that it's in the recordings themselves and not the TiVo program. Since you've not had any issues, that causes me to think even more that it's something more localized...similar to what people are dealing with regarding macroblocking and such. To address it I'd wager that they're either working on an overall change in how TiVo deals with incoming signals OR on a smaller scale, just getting the Desktop program to "overlook" certain issues when it runs into them...which wouldn't do anything to help the I.P. transfer method.

I'm going with them working on something more global...plus I never trusted Colonel Mustard. 

Signed,
Professor Plum


----------



## Laserfan

richsadams said:


> ...I never trusted Colonel Mustard.


I *liked* Colonel Mustard! 

My Tivo S3 is fed by a "silver sensor" (powered Terk actually) indoor antenna from 40 miles out, yet I've never had a TTG glitch; therein lies my skepticism that this is somehow a signal quality issue.

@moyekj I just DL'ed greg_burns .zip of TivoPlayList and again it shows-up as corrupt, this time on an entirely different PC. I love the idea of ditching TivoDesktop and all of its Services (I only ever dl from Tivo to PC anyway) but I guess it's not meant to be. Free Download Manager does seem to work OK using the https://<my Tivo's ip> method though. Guess I'm stuck with that.


----------



## moyekj

Laserfan said:


> @moyekj I just DL'ed greg_burns .zip of TivoPlayList and again it shows-up as corrupt, this time on an entirely different PC. I love the idea of ditching TivoDesktop and all of its Services (I only ever dl from Tivo to PC anyway) but I guess it's not meant to be. Free Download Manager does seem to work OK using the https://<my Tivo's ip> method though. Guess I'm stuck with that.


 If you really want this I can re-generate a new zip file on my PC and email it to you - just send me a PM with your email address (or post it here if you don't mind sharing publicly).


----------



## greg_burns

Laserfan said:


> @moyekj I just DL'ed greg_burns .zip of TivoPlayList and again it shows-up as corrupt, this time on an entirely different PC.


Weird. I've can download it from my comcast page myself no problem.


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> I *liked* Colonel Mustard!
> 
> My Tivo S3 is fed by a "silver sensor" (powered Terk actually) indoor antenna from 40 miles out, yet I've never had a TTG glitch; therein lies my skepticism that this is somehow a signal quality issue.


I don't think it's a signal "quality" issue so much as what's being delivered. There are reports of the same recording transferring just fine for some people yet having identical problems for other people in another part of the country. It would seem likely that if it were solely a TiVo issue everyone would see the same problem, yet that doesn't seem to be the case. Really the only variance is the locale; where the program is being broadcast and/or by whom. 

Colonel Mustard wasn't so bad...just misguided.


----------



## Laserfan

greg_burns said:


> Weird. I've can download it from my comcast page myself no problem.


Maybe has something to do with my satellite service--it's happened before!


----------



## greg_burns

Laserfan said:


> Maybe has something to do with my satellite service--it's happened before!


Yeah, PM us an email address and we'll email it. It is under 3MB.


----------



## Laserfan

greg_burns said:


> Yeah, PM us an email address and we'll email it. It is under 3MB.


Another member has kindly sent it already! 

His file unpacks just fine. Oddly, the "corrupt" file I DL'ed from you greg shows in Windows Properties as 2,605,972 bytes, vs 2,855,739 for the OK one. Dunno what might be happening but I stopped trying your website after 3 unsuccessful downloads--didn't want to hammer your bandwidth meter.

Thanks guys--the "kindness of strangers" here is gratifying...


----------



## Laserfan

Back on-topic: I have yet to try TivoPlayList but last night I transferred another 5.6Gb Tivo HD file and once again the transfer went without a hitch (this time I used https instead of TivoDesktop) but the file itself has a glitch about 80% in, such that neither VRD+ nor DirectShowDump can make an mpg file out of it.

Just saying that while my transfers appear always to complete, the files themselves aren't always perfect. I hope the TivoJerry fix resolves this issue as well as all y'all's transfer problems.


----------



## greg_burns

Back off-topic one last time. 

I tried emailing myself the zip file this morning (using hotmail) and when I unzip it the .exe is MIA! Sneeky bastards.


----------



## Laserfan

greg_burns said:


> I tried emailing myself the zip file this morning (using hotmail) and when I unzip it the .exe is MIA!


Wow, I had no idea some email systems might actually extract the exes from a zipped file!!!???!! 

Doesn't explain my download problems but is interesting nonetheless!


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> Back on-topic: I have yet to try TivoPlayList but last night I transferred another 5.6Gb Tivo HD file and once again the transfer went without a hitch (this time I used https instead of TivoDesktop) but the file itself has a glitch about 80% in, such that neither VRD+ nor DirectShowDump can make an mpg file out of it.


Perhaps you've already tried it, but if not, VideoReDo TVSuite has some correction/repair options and filters (incl. Quick Stream Fix under "Tools") that might take care of the glitch.


----------



## sathead

Laserfan said:


> Back on-topic: I have yet to try TivoPlayList but last night I transferred another 5.6Gb Tivo HD file and once again the transfer went without a hitch (this time I used https instead of TivoDesktop) but the file itself has a glitch about 80% in, such that neither VRD+ nor DirectShowDump can make an mpg file out of it.
> 
> Just saying that while my transfers appear always to complete, the files themselves aren't always perfect. I hope the TivoJerry fix resolves this issue as well as all y'all's transfer problems.


You can cut the file right before the glitch point in VideoRedo and save that segment. Then jump past the glitch point and save that second segment. Close the original file and use VideoRedo's "joiner" feature to join the two saved segments together as one good mpeg file. I've done that before when I used to dump recordings from my SA8300HD to my PC via firewire... there were lots of glitches that used to make VRD choke. Of course you lose that glitched segment, but usually it's only like one second or so.


----------



## richsadams

sathead said:


> You can cut the file right before the glitch point in VideoRedo and save that segment. Then jump past the glitch point and save that second segment. Close the original file and use VideoRedo's "joiner" feature to join the two saved segments together as one good mpeg file. I've done that before when I used to dump recordings from my SA8300HD to my PC via firewire... there were lots of glitches that used to make VRD choke. Of course you lose that glitched segment, but usually it's only like one second or so.


I thought about that, but when I tried it on a problematic recording a while back I couldn't get VRD to get past the glitch to be able to eliminate it and save what came after. That was when I was using VRD and not VRDTS, so maybe it will work now. Good advice and something to try certainly. :up:


----------



## steve614

richsadams said:


> I thought about that, but when I tried it on a problematic recording a while back I couldn't get VRD to get past the glitch to be able to eliminate it and save what came after.


I've run into that problem with VRD and the trick (in most cases) was to load the video directly into QSF and have it spit out a clean copy before attempting to open and edit.


----------



## richsadams

steve614 said:


> I've run into that problem with VRD and the trick (in most cases) was to load the video directly into QSF and have it spit out a clean copy before attempting to open and edit.


Ahhh...that's a great solution. I don't have a buggy video right now, but when I do I'll give it a shot. Cheers for that. :up:


----------



## sathead

richsadams said:


> I thought about that, but when I tried it on a problematic recording a while back I couldn't get VRD to get past the glitch to be able to eliminate it and save what came after. That was when I was using VRD and not VRDTS, so maybe it will work now. Good advice and something to try certainly. :up:


Here's what's worked for me with funky files that give VRD a hard time.... 
Once you save the first good section up to just before the glitch point , do a "reset"- close the full file then reopen it. Once reopened- quickly pull the pointer all the way to the right end of the file without stopping- then drag it to the left to just after the right end of the glitch point and mark that as your end point. Now quickly (without stopping) drag the pointer to the beginning of the file- mark that as your start point. Hit "cut selection" and save the resulting section as part 2. close the open file and use the "joiner" tool to merge saved section 1 and 2. 
The trick to getting the pointer past the glitch point is quickly dragging it way past the bad section. Kind of like skipping a bad track on a damaged audio CD, just skip over the track it rather than trying to FF through it.


----------



## richsadams

sathead said:


> Here's what's worked for me with funky files that give VRD a hard time....
> Once you save the first good section up to just before the glitch point , do a "reset"- close the full file then reopen it. Once reopened- quickly pull the pointer all the way to the right end of the file without stopping- then drag it to the left to just after the right end of the glitch point and mark that as your end point. Now quickly (without stopping) drag the pointer to the beginning of the file- mark that as your start point. Hit "cut selection" and save the resulting section as part 2. close the open file and use the "joiner" tool to merge saved section 1 and 2.
> The trick to getting the pointer past the glitch point is quickly dragging it way past the bad section. Kind of like skipping a bad track on a damaged audio CD, just skip over the track it rather than trying to FF through it.


Also good advice, thanks for that. :up: I think I tried doing that before, but I must have been too slow. Speed is the key apparently.


----------



## Laserfan

richsadams said:


> I think I tried doing that before, but I must have been too slow. Speed is the key apparently.


I have done this in the past, and I think you just have to keep trying and "get lucky" that VRD does not attempt to read any "glitch point" as it scans the file i.e. moving the slider bar does not scan each/every GOP, it skips along somehow.

I am transferring my glitchy program even as I type, using this time TivoPlayList, and if that doesn't work will try QSF on it.


----------



## Laserfan

TivoPlayList transferred the entire file, but VRD+ won't open it!!!??! Something like "...please check your media access key"! Feels like I still need TivoDesktop, which I un-installed, as if one of its DLLs is still needed? A benefit I'd imagined with TivoPlayList was that I didn't have to have all the TD junk on my PC, especially as I only wanna transfer files from Tivo to PC, and not back, nor any other networking features.


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> TivoPlayList transferred the entire file, but VRD+ won't open it!!!??! Something like "...please check your media access key"! Feels like I still need TivoDesktop, which I un-installed, as if one of its DLLs is still needed? A benefit I'd imagined with TivoPlayList was that I didn't have to have all the TD junk on my PC, especially as I only wanna transfer files from Tivo to PC, and not back, nor any other networking features.


I think you're right about needing TiVo Desktop installed. When you set up VideoReDo it probably asked you if you were going to edit .tivo files. If you answered "yes" I think it looks for/links to the Desktop program and the associated MAK.


----------



## Laserfan

Well, I found tivodecode and WinTivoDecode and together these converted my problematic .tivo file without issue. Now opens and edits w/VRD+ just perfectly.

Suggests to me that the dll used w/TivoDesktop to decrypt .tivo files has problems. Either that or TivoPlayList transferred the file better than TivoDesktop did. Unfortunately I can't test this because I stupidly deleted the problematic .tivo file before re-downloading w/TPL.

In any case I'm gonna use tivodecode, and TivoPlayList, from now on, since I never argue with success!


----------



## VideoGrabber

I like the small footprint of TiVoPlayList, but not the limited transfer speed. Best I can get is 9 MBit/sec, vs. 22 MBit/sec with TiVoDesktop (2.5.1)... connectivity identical. Way too much of a loss for me.

- Tim


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> Well, I found tivodecode and WinTivoDecode and together these converted my problematic .tivo file without issue. Now opens and edits w/VRD+ just perfectly.
> 
> Suggests to me that the dll used w/TivoDesktop to decrypt .tivo files has problems. Either that or TivoPlayList transferred the file better than TivoDesktop did. Unfortunately I can't test this because I stupidly deleted the problematic .tivo file before re-downloading w/TPL.
> 
> In any case I'm gonna use tivodecode, and TivoPlayList, from now on, since I never argue with success!


I've used TiVoDecode with good success previously...but IIRC there was some degradation in the transcoding of HD source files when using it instead of VideoReDo (and then some more with VRD). But if that's what it takes to get the job done when nothing else will work...that's a very good solution.


----------



## Laserfan

richsadams said:


> I've used TiVoDecode with good success previously...but IIRC there was some degradation in the transcoding of HD source files


If there is ANY actual transcoding being done on the part of tivodecode it is very little indeed--the process of going from .tivo to .mpg using it is virtually as fast as a straight copy AFAICT.

With VRD, each time it hits an edit point, around which a new GOP might need to be built, it slows noticeably. I just didn't see any of that w/tivodecode but on the strength of your comment I will keep an eye out both on conversion times and (of course) on playback quality.


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> If there is ANY actual transcoding being done on the part of tivodecode it is very little indeed--the process of going from .tivo to .mpg using it is virtually as fast as a straight copy AFAICT.
> 
> With VRD, each time it hits an edit point, around which a new GOP might need to be built, it slows noticeably. I just didn't see any of that w/tivodecode but on the strength of your comment I will keep an eye out both on conversion times and (of course) on playback quality.


PQ is always my concern. I'll have to check it out too...when I have lots of time on my hands.


----------



## Laserfan

richsadams said:


> PQ is always my concern. I'll have to check it out too...when I have lots of time on my hands.


Working with these large files IS time-consuming, isn't it. I'll always know if quality isn't there because there are at least a few shows where the only way I watch them is to edit w/VRD and PB on my media player & not the Tivo.

But what I do need now is something worth recording!

Without writers, the actors have nothing to say and the producers have nothing to sell. Wake up Hollywood!!!!


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> But what I do need now is something worth recording! Without writers, the actors have nothing to say and the producers have nothing to sell. Wake up Hollywood!!!!


Amen brother!! :up:


----------



## Laserfan

FWIW I just did a 17Gb HD (1080i) transfer out of my Tivo S3 using TivoPlayList no problems, then made a .mpg of it using TivoDecode, and edited/saved that w/VRDTVS to 12Gb and again, perfection, no errors anywhere, not even the usual minor complaints out of VRD.

Obviously can't conclude anything from it, but I continue to think TivoDesktop's de-encryption DLL is glitchy somewhere.


VideoGrabber said:


> I like the small footprint of TiVoPlayList, but not the limited transfer speed. Best I can get is 9 MBit/sec...


You ain't kidding Tim--I got less than 2Mbps out of it, took almost 3 hours to transfer. I'll stick with it though so long as I achieve perfection as I've done (twice!) now. 

I've never paid a lot of attention to TivoDesktop in the past but it does seem that TPL is slow indeed.


----------



## moyekj

Laserfan said:


> Obviously can't conclude anything from it, but I continue to think TivoDesktop's de-encryption DLL is glitchy somewhere.


 FYI, TivoDesktop doesn't do any decryption when downloading files from a Tivo - what you get on the PC are encrypted .TiVo files. The Tivo is the one doing the encryption work which is why the process is CPU limited rather than network speed limited. The only time the decryption takes place via TivoDesktop is if you play the .TiVo file, and that uses a Direct Show filter utility to decrypt which is the same mechanism used by Direct Show Dump Utility to convert .TiVo files to .mpg.
The download mechanism is the same for all of these tools - in fact you can use a web browser to download, so I'm not sure why it would work with TivoPlayList & not Tivo Desktop as some are reporting here...


----------



## greg_burns

Laserfan said:


> I've never paid a lot of attention to TivoDesktop in the past but it does seem that TPL is slow indeed.


I just did my own tests and TivoPlayList did indeed come in last. 

My app's, Tivo Desktop Lite, download time seemed identical to TivoDesktop's. Of course, mine isn't giving any display progress at all  , unlike TPL's nifty progress indicators.

BTW, I can't image mine would work any better on a file that TivoDesktop can't handle. I have yet to have one of these failures using TivoDesktop, so I have nothing to test with myself.

FYI, to download with my app right-click on a show in the list and choose Download from the context menu. It isn't smart enough yet to know which are blocked from transfers, so those will just thow an exception. The UI will appear to lock-up during the transfer, but it actually still progressing. You can monitor the file grow by refreshing the contents of the destination folder in Windows Explorer.

Please be kind, this is a work in progress.


----------



## Laserfan

moyekj said:


> The download mechanism is the same for all of these tools - in fact you can use a web browser to download, so I'm not sure why it would work with TivoPlayList & not Tivo Desktop as some are reporting here...


Yes, I understood all of that (tho I didn't until very recently!). Apparently I didn't make myself clear: my comment about the DLL was wrt the on-PC conversion of the transferred .tivo file to .mpg, whether that be by DSD or e.g. by VRD+. I always get perfect transfers, it's only in the conversion once ON the PC that *I* have trouble, though not now w/tivodecode.

Sorry. I'd somehow managed to take this thread OT from the "fails in transfer" discussion.  Gonna try greg_burns app (except that his link doesn't work?). All I need is something to transfer the files; TD is way more than I need-or-want.


----------



## Laserfan

greg_burns said:


> My app's, Tivo Desktop Lite, download time seemed identical to TivoDesktop's....Please be kind, this is a work in progress.


Don't apologize--TivoDekstopLite (sic) worked just fine! Tried it today, and xsfer time was a little better than TPL's i.e. about 2.1Mbps vs. TPL's 1.8Mbps but these both still kinda suck so I'm thinking I've gotta swap-out my switch. I have two switches between my Tivo and my PC and I think one of them might be at issue here.

Still no errors in data file transfer or (w/tivodecode) conversion to mpg though.


----------



## wgw

TPL uses 100% CPU which limits the transfer rate. Probably a result of the progress indicator.


----------



## netsurfer

wgw said:


> You are very fortunate if you have never had a transfer to PC fail. The rest of us experience failed transfers all the time whether using the latest TD 2.5.1 or doing the transfer with a browser. And HDTivo is right, repeated transfer attempts fail at the same spot.


I just did two transfers of the same program recorded from over the air antenna.

They both stoped at 4,517,952 KB.

I verified that number in Windows explorer.


----------



## netsurfer

moyekj said:


> Even if Tivo fixes this issue it would still be nice to MRV to pc so as to get faster MRV transfer rates...


How does one MRV to PC? Newbie here.


----------



## netsurfer

ah30k said:


> I am seeing these failures pretty regularly on SD transfers from the S2DT as well. Always at the same exact spot on repeated attempts.


Chime in - for me, so far, it is SD from a series 3. Have not tried HD yet.


----------



## greg_burns

netsurfer said:


> How does one MRV to PC? Newbie here.


You can't. You can only MRV between Tivos.

We suspect it is the muxing that takes places during the Tivo2Go transfer that is causing the problems (and speed issues).

We were thinking it would be nice if we could bypass that step by doing the same sort of transfer that MRV does between Tivos (no muxing), but do it to a PC instead. You wouldn't be able to play it on the PC in that form (without muxing it with some sort of software), but it would allow you to offload from the Tivo. To play it back, in theory, you would "MRV" it back to your Tivo.

All just wishful thinking.


----------



## netsurfer

cwoody222 said:


> Well, I just tried hardwiring the TiVo and the computer. Still no luck. It stops at 26mb downloaded of a 21gb file


I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that requires the use of a crossover cable that is wired differently than a standard Ethernet cable. You might want to check into that.


----------



## greg_burns

netsurfer said:


> I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that requires the use of a crossover cable that is wired differently than a standard Ethernet cable. You might want to check into that.


I bet he meant he had a hub or router in between the Tivo and Computer (no need for crossover cable). He was just saying he tried a non wireless connection w/o success.


----------



## netsurfer

steve614 said:


> I tried transferring an HD show and it quit at 4092 Mb. Then I realized I hadn't converted my file system to NTFS yet


How can I check if I am using NTFS?


----------



## greg_burns

netsurfer said:


> How can I check if I am using NTFS?


My Computer icon->Right click on C: drive.


----------



## netsurfer

Ok, lets add this to what we know. I just tried to download the same program to my PC using TivoPlayList from link on this forum. The download stopped exactly where the first two downloads stopped when using Tivo Desktop.

That is at 4,517,952 KB

Thanks to Greg Burns I now know that all of my PC hard drives are formatted in NTFS.


----------



## greg_burns

netsurfer said:


> Ok, lets add this to what we know. I just tried to download the same program to my PC using TivoPlayList from link on this forum. The download stopped exactly where the first two downloads stopped when using Tivo Desktop.
> 
> That is at 4,517,952 KB


They all use the same method to transfer. If you playback what you transferred so far on your PC and notice where it ends. When you get to the same point playing it back on your Tivo you may notice a pixelation glitch. That is probably why it stops there. Tivo2Go seems overly sensitive to those type of glitches.


----------



## netsurfer

netsurfer said:


> Ok, lets add this to what we know. I just tried to download the same program to my PC using TivoPlayList from link on this forum. The download stopped exactly where the first two downloads stopped when using Tivo Desktop.
> 
> That is at 4,517,952 KB
> 
> Thanks to Greg Burns I now know that all of my PC hard drives are formatted in NTFS.


I just viewed the 60 seconds before and after on the Tivo. No audio or video glitches at all.


----------



## ah30k

I've heard of suggestions on clearing the cache but have not had a chance to try it myself. Also, I'm not sure of exactly which cache since I've heard there were two caches.


----------



## greg_burns

ah30k said:


> I've heard of suggestions on clearing the cache but have not had a chance to try it myself. Also, I'm not sure of exactly which cache since I've heard there were two caches.


That would be the TivoDesktop cache in your profile directory. But people are having problems when not even using TivoDesktop...


----------



## greg_burns

netsurfer said:


> I just viewed the 60 seconds before and after on the Tivo. No audio or video glitches at all.


It is just the current theory. YMMV


----------



## steve614

greg_burns said:


> It is just the current theory. YMMV


I think it's a good theory.
My first and only HD transfer failure so far occured with a show riddled with dropouts and pixilation.


----------



## sathead

steve614 said:


> I think it's a good theory.
> My first and only HD transfer failure so far occured with a show riddled with dropouts and pixilation.


My failed transfers mostly fail on "bad" re- glitchy channels too. 
So far I've recorded 4 episodes of Battlestar Galactica in Hi-Def from the UHD (Universal HD) channel. I've only been able to successfully transfer one episode, the other three fail to transfer every time I try. UHD is one of the channels with the most glitches in the data.
Hopefully the fix will be out soon


----------



## splat1

This seems to be the closest thread to my problem so I hope that I am in the right place.

I do not have an incomplete transfer but I have a failure to produce a usable file after the transfer. 
I have a Tivo HD with a wired network. I am transferring over the air HD broadcast to the pc.
I can transfer the HD show to the pc and then convert to mpeg and play it in vlc media player. Some shows work fine on the computer and other shows stop playing at the same point in the show each time I try the show and although I can see that the mpeg goes further (with an mpeg cutter) the video and sound stop when playing. If I download the same show again it will stop at the same place. If I cut the mpeg to use a later part of the file it still wont work. The show plays fine on the tivo and there is no noise or pixilation. Anyone else having this problem ?


----------



## moyekj

splat1 said:


> This seems to be the closest thread to my problem so I hope that I am in the right place.
> 
> I do not have an incomplete transfer but I have a failure to produce a usable file after the transfer.
> I have a Tivo HD with a wired network. I am transferring over the air HD broadcast to the pc.
> I can transfer the HD show to the pc and then convert to mpeg and play it in vlc media player. Some shows work fine on the computer and other shows stop playing at the same point in the show each time I try the show and although I can see that the mpeg goes further (with an mpeg cutter) the video and sound stop when playing. If I download the same show again it will stop at the same place. If I cut the mpeg to use a later part of the file it still wont work. The show plays fine on the tivo and there is no noise or pixilation. Anyone else having this problem ?


 I just had a similar problem. Last episode of Lost transfers fine off my S3 to my PC and back again without issue. However, after decrypting with Tivo Decoder and trying to edit or playback there is a glitch around 25 min point which confuses my editor and also causes playback audio/video sync issues with many different players. I gave up trying to edit the 720p version. I ran it through ffmpeg to convert to DVD compatible mpeg and that version I was then able to edit out commercials past the glitch point and the resulting mpeg is now fine (though of course it's only 480i).

These kinds of issues I have run into long before I had Tivo. I was capturing transport streams from a digital set top box via firewire and occasionally I would get "glitched" recordings that had similar problems as I described above. So I don't really think it's a Tivo issue, just a transmission issue. Just glad to see Tivo seems to deal with certain glitches OK during playback (though I do get a fair amount of the mini-FF effects during playback on occasion).


----------



## steve614

If you download and register Video ReDo, you can try it free for 15 days (I think).

That program has a great tool called Quickstream Fix that might solve your problem.


----------



## guava

I'm having problems with Toast, Tivo desktop for mac installed and Tivo decoder transfers. my first transfer worked fine, but many failures. after that.

When it worked, I only had one tuner card from cablevission but now I have 2 cards. One M-Card in each slot.


----------



## sathead

TiVo support actually called me at work yesterday to see if I was still experiencing transfer failures I had complained about. Told them I was, and was told "we're working on that issue- it should be addressed in the next update". That was followed by "unfortunately, I can't say when that next update might be".

Well, at least we're on the radar!


----------



## splat1

It may be a transmission error rather than a tivo error but I have not had any issues with computer card captured .ts shows. ffmpeg in SVCD2DVD did not correct the error and put the video and audio out of synch after the problem point.

Videoredo failed to edit or play past the problem point.
I will try cutting out the problem point and then reimporting the clip but of course I dont know if there are other problem points later in the file. I may try making several files after clipping out the known problem point and then seeing if they all convert to DVD or if I need to look for another problem point to cut out.

I was hoping someone else was experiencing the issue and had a solution.


----------



## Qwertinsky

I have always had about a 50% failure rate from the beginning. But could get trasnfers to complete after a couple trys.

I was using a Linksys Wireless-G Game Adapter WGA54G  on the Tivo to connect to my network.

Just this weekend I changed that out for a Linksys wrt54G that had it's firmware replaced with DD-WRT, as my main router is and placed it in client bridge mode.

Not only have transfer speeds increased from about 1-2Mbit average to 4-6Mbit and so far no transfer errors or incomplete transfers.


----------



## steve614

splat1 said:


> Videoredo failed to edit or play past the problem point.
> I will try cutting out the problem point and then reimporting the clip but of course I dont know if there are other problem points later in the file. I may try making several files after clipping out the known problem point and then seeing if they all convert to DVD or if I need to look for another problem point to cut out.
> 
> I was hoping someone else was experiencing the issue and had a solution.


I have this problem on occasion.
What works (most of the time) for me is this.
Open VideoReDo.
Without loading a video, go to 'Tools' and select 'Quickstream Fix'.
Select the input source (the video you want to fix).
Next, select the destination for the output and start.
The output file will (again, most of the time) be a clean copy ready for editing.

Good luck.


----------



## Laserfan

VRD uses Tivo's dll for conversion of the .tivo file as it imports. Often this fails, though occasionally I've found that DirectShowDump (which uses the same dll) will eventually convert the program to .mpg for VRD editing.

The most foolproof way to do this is to avoid Tivo's dll altogether. Since I ditched TivoDesktop and use instead TivoPlayList and TivoDecode I haven't had any glitches of any kind in conversion. TPL transfers to the PC as .tivo, and TivoDecode converts from .tivo to .mpg (needs you MAK is all).


----------



## imtiedup

Qwertinsky said:


> Not only have transfer speeds increased from about 1-2Mbit average to 4-6Mbit and so far no transfer errors or incomplete transfers.


Kinda new when it comes to transfer speeds etc. Mine says 1MB transfer on my monitor and never goes any higher than that using tivo transfer. When I transfer files from one computer to the next it goes much higher than that.

I have tried both the linksys you have and also the netgear gigabit router, both hardwired of course.

Right now I am transfering the superbowl, 4 hrs long, and tivotogo says it is going to take about 8 hours.... wow 2-1 seems kinda slow. Is it supposed to be that bad?

After having the transfer fail a number of times I finally realized I had not yet reformated the hitachi 1tb drive to ntfs, so plugged in a new one, formatted and trying it yet again.

My tivohd is promed, so I'm curious... is there a faster way to transfer this stuff off the stupid tivohd than the normal supported routes? Is my speed 1MB what it is supposed to be?

thanks


----------



## rmassey

All my CBS OTA HD seem to fail now. I'll try to xfer Letterman (1 Hr ~ 7-8GB). I always end up with a small 62 MB file. 

Luckily I can xfer PBS OTA HD fine. Austin City Limits, Soundstage, etc all xfer just fine.


----------



## sathead

I have ten hi-def recordings that fail on transfer- I'm holding on to them in hopes that the 9.3 software update will allow me to finally transfer them off-
UFO- 4 episodes
Battlestar Galactica- 3 episodes
Eragon
Fast Times at Ridgemont High 
Mission to Mars

Come on 9.3!


----------



## splat1

I think the issue in my transfers that get from TIVOHD to the pc but have sound problems is the tivo HD transfer. The whole show transfers to the pc.
In my small sample of shows transferred with tivo to go in HD from TivoHD 4 shows were easily converted to DVD on the pc. 2 have issues.

1 show had 4 places where there was a sound glitch...ie the sound got out of synch with video. This happened at the same place in the file when retransferred from the computer and happened using directshow or tivodecoder to change the .tivo file to .mpeg. The issue was present with videoredo and streamfix did not fix the issue. I cut the file at the problem points and then could make a dvd. The sound was in synch after the cuts IF I made the cuts but would be out of synch after these points if I did not make a cut. 

The 6th show lost audio in the final 10 minutes. videoredo shows no audio track. vlc, and media player play no sound at this point in the file but the video continues. 
Both of the programs where there are sound issues play the sound perfectly on the tivoHD so sound is present and it is in synch. The issue must be in the tivo to go or translation from .tivo to .mpeg.
Anyone have any ideas ?


----------



## moyekj

steve614 said:


> If you download and register Video ReDo, you can try it free for 15 days (I think).
> 
> That program has a great tool called Quickstream Fix that might solve your problem.


 After a lot of analysis for my glitched Lost recording I finally demuxed audio and video and found that the audio stream is about 2 minutes shorter than the video stream, so no matter what tool I used I couldn't get synced up audio/video after the glitch. NOTE: On the Tivo there is no obvious problem when playing back the recording beyond the glitch point, so it looks like the TTG transfer is what screwed things up. I tried TTG transfer again and same problem.

Just gave VRD free trial a go with Quickstream Fix. The way that it dealt with the glitch was to throw away ~2 minutes of video so that video and audio remain in sync from the glitch onwards. So that way I lose about 2 minutes of program, but at least I have an in sync audio/video output. So this is probably the best I can do for now. Thanks for the tip on VRD Quickstream fix - certainly easier than me trying to sync up audio/video manually after the glitch.


----------



## Laserfan

moyekj said:


> Just gave VRD free trial a go with Quickstream Fix. The way that it dealt with the glitch was to throw away ~2 minutes of video so that video and audio remain in sync from the glitch onwards. So that way I lose about 2 minutes of program, but at least I have an in sync audio/video output.


Hey I wonder if you change the Options/Stream Parameters to Resync--Insert Extra Video Frames if QSF will give you instead two minutes of video w/no audio?

That's what mine is set to (I think it defaults to your setting instead) but I've never seen a program as bad as yours to see what VRD does with it.


----------



## dcahoe

Hi everyone, although I'm sorry people are having problems transferring files, I'm glad to see you have been having some success with TiVoPlayList.

I just released a new version v0.61 which adds HD content and should improve download speeds by lessening the load on the PC.

Thanks and Good Luck All.


----------



## tv444

TiVoJerry said:


> I just wanted to let you all know that it looks like we have a handle on the problem for the majority of transfer failures. Testing is looking real good for this issue. We're still a short while away from the release that carries it but I will try to remember to post here when the priority page goes up so you can see for yourself.
> 
> Thank you all for your patience.


Any updates on we we can expect this?


----------



## richsadams

dcahoe said:


> Hi everyone, although I'm sorry people are having problems transferring files, I'm glad to see you have been having some success with TiVoPlayList.
> 
> I just released a new version v0.61 which adds HD content and should improve download speeds by lessening the load on the PC.
> 
> Thanks and Good Luck All.


Thanks for your continued hard work. :up:


----------



## moyekj

Laserfan said:


> Hey I wonder if you change the Options/Stream Parameters to Resync--Insert Extra Video Frames if QSF will give you instead two minutes of video w/no audio?
> 
> That's what mine is set to (I think it defaults to your setting instead) but I've never seen a program as bad as yours to see what VRD does with it.


 I uninstalled VRD now so can't try it. I have used Womble mpeg Video Wizard for years and still find it much easier and more intuitive than VRD for quick mpeg editing so I didn't think about keeping VRD around for very long.


----------



## guava

Interesting note. using Roxio's app I was able to transfer full copies of CSI from CBS-HD but my transfers of Angel from TNT-HD repeatedly dailed after 10 minn. into show.

Maybe CBS isn't glitching their broadcasts?


----------



## Laserfan

moyekj said:


> I uninstalled VRD now so can't try it. I have used Womble mpeg Video Wizard for years


Fine, assuming you're OK with having lost 2 minutes of "Lost". I'm quite certain you could've gotten VRD free trial to fix it.


----------



## SnakeEyes

I guess this is the right place to post this. I am unable to transfer a show on USA HD. Each attempt, whether through TiVoDesktop or using the web interface via IP, the transfer stops at the same 723.6MB filesize. This is fraction of the 8+ GB size the file should be. This occurs whether the TiVo is connected via wireless or ethernet. Transfers will resume but then the transfer seems to never end. The transfer will go past the filesize. I should note I am using the Mac version. Very frustrating


----------



## VanGoghLikesTivo

I was in the middle of a transfer when the computer shut down. When I re-connected, it said the transfer was interrupted and it would continue. But, it never restarted the transfer. Eventually, I was able to start a new transfer of the same program and delete the incomplete copy. I don't know why it never finished the transfer. It was an HD program recorded OTA transferring from my Series 3 to my computer.


----------



## tv444

dcahoe said:


> Hi everyone, although I'm sorry people are having problems transferring files, I'm glad to see you have been having some success with TiVoPlayList.
> 
> I just released a new version v0.61 which adds HD content and should improve download speeds by lessening the load on the PC.
> 
> Thanks and Good Luck All.


I tried the new version but I still cannot download 12 recordings, all in 1920 x 1080, to my PC. They all fail at the same point they did previously with Tivo desktop.


----------



## tv444

Laserfan said:


> VRD uses Tivo's dll for conversion of the .tivo file as it imports. Often this fails, though occasionally I've found that DirectShowDump (which uses the same dll) will eventually convert the program to .mpg for VRD editing.
> 
> The most foolproof way to do this is to avoid Tivo's dll altogether. Since I ditched TivoDesktop and use instead TivoPlayList and TivoDecode I haven't had any glitches of any kind in conversion. TPL transfers to the PC as .tivo, and TivoDecode converts from .tivo to .mpg (needs you MAK is all).


Do you have any problems getting full downloads to the PC?


----------



## Laserfan

No problem here at all. I have never, ever had my S3 fail to transfer an HD program to my PC in its entirety. I'm baffled as to why some people have trouble, but as at least richadams had trouble with an antivirus program I do suspect Norton & clones & Windows firewall as at least one major cause. I have none of these on any PC in my 20-odd gizmo home network.

Beyond this I dunno--my network ain't nuthin' special; altho my S3 is wired it does goe thru a couple/three 10-100 router/switches on its way to my editing PC.

No idea why others have trouble, but I'm sure glad I don't!!!


----------



## threeeyedtoad

Laserfan said:


> No problem here at all. I have never, ever had my S3 fail to transfer an HD program to my PC in its entirety. I'm baffled as to why some people have trouble, but as at least richadams had trouble with an antivirus program I do suspect Norton & clones & Windows firewall as at least one major cause. I have none of these on any PC in my 20-odd gizmo home network.


I also have no special network setup. I've no internal firewall, nor do I employ anti-virus software when trying to TTG. Yet I encounter errors on certain programs, which so far seem to have many sequential "P" frames in the portion of the show which actually transfers from my S3 TiVo.

Based on absolutely no actual insight into the problem being investigated by the TiVo engineers, I'm inclined to think the problems are due to MPEGs on the TiVo that have been created from odd transmission issues from the cable providers (that is, odd MPEG transport stream cadences). I would like to hypothesize (again, based on no actual data points) that this problem should only occur for users who are using CableCards in their S3 TiVos. AFAIK, the CableCards basically allow the incoming digital stream from the cable service to be written directly to HD (no digital-to-analog-to-digital conversion, as when TiVos are used with cable boxes), so the TiVo is not responsible for transcoding the MPEG, and therefore has nothing to say about how the MPEG stream is written to disk.

Further, since this hypothesized error in the MPEG stream would likely be caused by and dependent on the cable provider, and the source channel, it would potentially vary from cable carrier to cable carrier. I know I've seen reports in this thread from some Cablevision subscribers encountering problems. As a Verizon FiOS subscriber, I can offer my own experience up as potential evidence of transmission errors from that provider as well.

So... by means of a straw poll -- are there any S3 TiVo users out there using a cable box that have experienced the inability to transfer programs? I'm gonna guess "no". Conversely, are there any S3 TiVo users out there having problems that are NOT using CableCards? I'm gonna guess "no"...


----------



## tv444

Laserfan said:


> as at least richadams had trouble with an antivirus program I do suspect Norton & clones & Windows firewall as at least one major cause.


I am not running any anti virus software. Plus, Fox network programs seem to be the only ones I can download wityhout problems. I have done about 15 from FOX with zero proplems.


----------



## tv444

threeeyedtoad said:


> I'm inclined to think the problems are due to MPEGs on the TiVo that have been created from odd transmission issues from the cable providers (that is, odd MPEG transport stream cadences). I would like to hypothesize (again, based on no actual data points) that this problem should only occur for users who are using CableCards in their S3 TiVos.


My programs come from an over the air antenna. CBS, NBC and ABC seem to be problematic but FOX downloads without a single problem so far, during 15 or so downloads. On those other networks I have been unable to get a single program to completely download.


----------



## dcahoe

This problem is not new and is certainly not limited to the S3 or HD TiVos. It has been around as long as TiVo has allowed TiVoToGo going back to software version 7.x on the Series 2 machines.

I only have Series 2 machines and have no cable boxes, just straight coax cable (analog). I have had only 2 shows in the past 2 years that I could not transfer. They played fine on my TiVo's and would even MRV between them, but would fail at a certain point when transferring to a PC. All the various methods failed at the same point, and I could see some slight noise at that point in the show if watching it, but the TiVo would play through it.

I believe TiVoJerry has said that TiVo is working on a fix, and that's great. It seems to be that when the TiVo is transcoding a show for transfer to a PC as a .tivo (mpg) file, if it encounters certain anomolies it just quits the transfer. It seems that all of the new people with HD TiVo's are having more problems than ever, but maybe this is just because the files are larger and have more data to process per frame (resolution, etc) and the TiVo seems to abort easier.


----------



## tv444

dcahoe said:


> All the various methods failed at the same point, and I could see some slight noise at that point in the show if watching it, but the TiVo would play through it.


I am OTA. Recently, I got done downloading 15 shows from Fox. Three of them were recorded during a period when my antenna was laying flat on the roof. It got knocked down in high wind. Those three shows had about 20-30 instances of macro blocking in them but yet they downloaded in their entirety.

In the month since I have been using Tivo To Go I have only been able to download from Fox.

ABC, NBC, CBS, and two other independent local stations are not down loadable for me. The transfer stops anywhere from 40 to 95 percent.


----------



## Laserfan

dcahoe said:


> It seems to be that when the TiVo is transcoding a show fo transfer to a PC as a .tivo (mpg) file, if it encounters certain anomolies it just quits the transfer. It seems that all of the new people with HD TiVo's are having more problems than ever, but maybe this is just because the files are larger and have more data to process per frame (resolution, etc) and the TiVo seems to abort easier.


This makes sense, though I have had some pretty ugly glitches in my OTA programs yet they've still transferred OK. Guess I'd rather be lucky than smart! 

Just to clarify, since you're the author of the (terrific, thanks!) TivoPlayList application: it's your understanding then that the Tivo box(es) do always, when they transfer a show out-of the Tivo hdd and across the network, first embed the MAK somehow into the program which is what we later have to know in order to convert from .TiVo to .mpg. And further, that they do this on-the-fly and abort at the Tivo, i.e. it's the Tivo that's aborting transmission (so TPL won't help over TD or any other tool).

I do believe that cable boxes are a whole 'nuther can-of-worms i.e. I don't have cable but used to have digital cable and it was unpredictable as heck.


----------



## dcahoe

Laserfan said:


> (terrific, thanks!) TivoPlayList application


Thanks for the positive feedback.



Laserfan said:


> And further, that they do this on-the-fly and abort at the Tivo, i.e. it's the Tivo that's aborting transmission (so TPL won't help over TD or any other tool).


Yes, that is exactly my opinion. So a fix will need to be made in a TiVo software update, not in any PC software.


----------



## Laserfan

Thanks for confirming!


----------



## tv444

TiVoJerry said:


> I just wanted to let you all know that it looks like we have a handle on the problem for the majority of transfer failures. Testing is looking real good for this issue. We're still a short while away from the release that carries it but I will try to remember to post here when the priority page goes up so you can see for yourself.
> 
> Thank you all for your patience.


How much longer of a short while?


----------



## kas25

I just started downloading on my Mac and here is my observation. HD network show worked flawlessly. HD movie (over 13 Gig) stopped at about 12.8 Gig twice. SD movie worked fine. I originally thought maybe it was the size of the file but reading this forum, I'll assume its the movie and try another? I am getting the files from Fios.


----------



## sathead

kas25 said:


> I originally thought maybe it was the size of the file but reading this forum, I'll assume its the movie and try another? I am getting the files from Fios.


If the same movie is showing again, re-record it and try downloading the new recording. It's worked for me in the past...


----------



## tspofford

sathead said:


> If the same movie is showing again, re-record it and try downloading the new recording. It's worked for me in the past...


I've downloaded re-broadcasts of the same program and then transferred with TTG. They fail at precisely the same point as the previous copy, generally right at the beginning. I believe it's code in the original file on the broadcaster's end, possibly some kind of start-of-program code. There's no option to start a program late so I'm going to try to catch one of the ones I've had repeated problems with and start it a couple of minutes into the program and see what happens. FWIW, I've experienced this with a couple of different HD Austin City Limits and a couple of Crossroads, as well as 1 or 2 other programs. Carrier is Comcast. If Development/Tech Support is reading this I'll be happy to provide some files for examination although I assume they've got all they need.

Tim Spofford


----------



## kas25

tspofford said:


> I've downloaded re-broadcasts of the same program and then transferred with TTG. They fail at precisely the same point as the previous copy, generally right at the beginning. I believe it's code in the original file on the broadcaster's end, possibly some kind of start-of-program code. There's no option to start a program late so I'm going to try to catch one of the ones I've had repeated problems with and start it a couple of minutes into the program and see what happens. FWIW, I've experienced this with a couple of different HD Austin City Limits and a couple of Crossroads, as well as 1 or 2 other programs. Carrier is Comcast. If Development/Tech Support is reading this I'll be happy to provide some files for examination although I assume they've got all they need.
> 
> Tim Spofford


I just tried a movie twice and made it about 2/3 of the way through when it restarts. Others just stop at about 90%. Very frustrating.


----------



## steve614

tspofford said:


> There's no option to start a program late ...
> Tim Spofford


Unless you know the next time the show airs and set it up with manual recording.


----------



## tspofford

steve614 said:


> Unless you know the next time the show airs and set it up with manual recording.


How (please)? That's what I was trying to find but only found Start on Time, Start 1 Minute Early, 5 minutes early, etc. (I do realize I can make a point of being there, waiting for it to start, and then hitting Record, but since I alluded to that in my original post, I assume you're talking about something else.)


----------



## steve614

If you know when and on what channel the show airs...

Go to Tivo Central -> Find Programs -> Record by Time or Channel -> Set up Manual Recording.

You'll only be able to set the start and stop times in 5 min. increments.


----------



## tspofford

steve614 said:


> Go to Tivo Central -> Find Programs -> Record by Time or Channel -> Set up Manual Recording.


Thanks, Steve. I've never used that function, didn't know it was there. I've set up Clapton's 2007 Crossroads Festival, one of the programs that has repeatedly failed (and one that I most want) to start 5 minutes late, on Sunday. Will see what happens -- possibly not much because there aren't currently any more HD showings scheduled on my local PBS so this one will be the LD version.


----------



## kas25

Can someone please explain the "I.P. transfer method" in layman's terms? I use Tivo Dedode Mgr on my Mac and with varied success and I would love to try this method. Thanks.


----------



## richsadams

kas25 said:


> Can someone please explain the "I.P. transfer method" in layman's terms? I use Tivo Dedode Mgr on my Mac and with varied success and I would love to try this method. Thanks.


I haven't used the I.P. transfer method with a Mac, but I don't know of any reason it would be different than that of a PC. If it doesn't work, let us know and I'm sure an Apple expert can help.

To perform I.P. transfers (in lieu of using TiVo Desktop) you'll need two things: your TiVo Media Access Key (MAK) and your TiVo's I.P. address.

*MAK*: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > Media Access Key. It can also be obtained by logging into your TiVo account at http://www.tivo.com > Manage My Account > Related Links (RH column).

*I.P. address*: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Settings > Phone and Network. Or you can get it by opening TiVo Desktop > Server > TiVo Server Properties > Access Control.​
Once you have that information open your Internet browser. Type in:

*https://<tivo ip>/* (or if you want to be technical, https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html)​
NOTE: The "s" for a secure connection in http*s*:// is important otherwise you'll just get a standard TiVo information screen.

You may get a certificate warning; accept the certificate.

A login screen will appear. Type in:

Username: "*tivo*" (w/o the parenthesis) 
Password: your *MAK *number.​
The "Now Playing" screen will appear. To the right you'll see download links for each program. If you click on one the login screen will appear again. Enter the same login information as above and your normal download program should take over. You'll need to save the program to disk, indicating where you want to save it (usually your "My TiVo Recordings" folder.)

To avoid the repeated login screen, I have my computer save the info for the next time so I don't have to keep filling it out.

For going the other way, iTunes-to-TiVo, there's a program called Playlist Exporter. I've never used it, but hear that it works well.

FYI, for PC users there is a very easy to use program called TivoPlayList that has basically automated this process and also has some nice added features such as disk space tool, etc.

Hope that helps!


----------



## kas25

richsadams said:


> I havent used the I.P. transfer method with a Mac, but I dont know of any reason it would be different than that of a PC. If it doesnt work, let us know and Im sure an Apple expert can help.
> 
> To perform I.P. transfers (in lieu of using TiVo Desktop) youll need two things: your TiVo Media Access Key (MAK) and your TiVos I.P. address.
> 
> *MAK*: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > Media Access Key. It can also be obtained by logging into your TiVo account at http://www.tivo.com > Manage My Account > Related Links (RH column).
> 
> *I.P. address*: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Settings > Phone and Network. Or you can get it by opening TiVo Desktop > Server > TiVo Server Properties > Access Control.​
> Once you have that information open your Internet browser. Type in:
> 
> *https://<tivo ip>/* (or if you want to be technical, https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html)​
> NOTE: The "s" for a secure connection in http*s*:// is important otherwise youll just get a standard TiVo information screen.
> 
> You may get a certificate warning; accept the certificate.
> 
> A login screen will appear. Type in:
> 
> Username: *tivo* (w/o the parenthesis)
> Password: your *MAK *number.​
> The Now Playing screen will appear. To the right youll see download links for each program. If you click on one the login screen will appear again. Enter the same login information as above and your normal download program should take over. Youll need to save the program to disk, indicating where you want to save it (usually your My TiVo Recordings folder.)
> 
> To avoid the repeated login screen, I have my computer save the info for the next time so I dont have to keep filling it out.
> 
> For going the other way, iTunes-to-TiVo, theres a program called Playlist Exporter. Ive never used it, but hear that it works well.
> 
> FYI, for PC users there is a very easy to use program called TivoPlayList that has basically automated this process and also has some nice added features such as disk space tool, etc.
> 
> Hope that helps!


Thank you very much. Before I try this, is there a better chance of the download succeeding or is it the consenus that its an issue that needs to be fixed by Tivo? Thanks again.


----------



## richsadams

kas25 said:


> Thank you very much. Before I try this, is there a better chance of the download succeeding or is it the consenus that its an issue that needs to be fixed by Tivo? Thanks again.


When I've had problems w/TiVo Desktop, I've been able to use TiVoPlayList (which is essentially the I.P. method) with some success for unknown reasons. In my case I think it has to do with my security suite (Bit Defender). Although more recently I've haven't had any issues w/TiVo Desktop transfers.  TiVo Desktop seems to be the fastest method when it comes to transfer speed, but YMMV. Network issues are sooo much fun.


----------



## HPD

kas25 said:


> Thank you very much. Before I try this, is there a better chance of the download succeeding or is it the consenus that its an issue that needs to be fixed by Tivo? Thanks again.


For me, when I tried the IP method, the results were the same. No better than Tivo Desktop in my opinion. On the next software release to the Tivo machines, a Tivo employee who writes on this board says they were having great success solving this issue and that it should be available soon. He said that about four weeks ago. Should not be too much longer.


----------



## steve614

kas25 said:


> Thank you very much. Before I try this, is there a better chance of the download succeeding or is it the consenus that its an issue that needs to be fixed by Tivo? Thanks again.


In my experience, if a transfer failed using TivoDesktop, it also failed when using https, and TivoPlayList.


----------



## Laserfan

kas25 said:


> ...an issue that needs to be fixed by Tivo?


Look at the previous page in this very thread where dcahoe opines that it's the Tivo that stops feeding the program. I believe him.

That doesn't mean people can't have all manner of other issues/problems with their network setups, but in the end there appears to be a Tivo problem also, relating to glitchy recordings IMO.


----------



## richsadams

Laserfan said:


> Look at the previous page in this very thread where dcahoe opines that it's the Tivo that stops feeding the program. I believe him.
> 
> That doesn't mean people can't have all manner of other issues/problems with their network setups, but in the end there appears to be a Tivo problem also, relating to glitchy recordings IMO.


Yep, I'd agree on both points. :up: I'm not sure what the TiVo "fix" will be in the upcoming TiVo Desktop release, but it sounds as if they are onto the issue and hopefully will have it resolved.


----------



## greg_burns

richsadams said:


> Yep, I'd agree on both points. :up: I'm not sure what the TiVo "fix" will be in the upcoming TiVo Desktop release, but it sounds as if they are onto the issue and hopefully will have it resolved.


I would imagine the fix will have to be in the Tivo OS, not TivoDesktop... but we shall see.


----------



## richsadams

greg_burns said:


> I would imagine the fix will have to be in the Tivo OS, not TivoDesktop... but we shall see.


Good point. Maybe both?


----------



## HPD

greg_burns said:


> I would imagine the fix will have to be in the Tivo OS, not TivoDesktop... but we shall see.


I tried the IP method, bypassing Tivo Desktop. It still did not work. That leads me to believe that it is the software on the Tivo.


----------



## Fortynine

Any word on the timing of Tivo fix?


----------



## leiff

my TTG shows are failing midtransfer almost everyday. Called tivo. They had me reinstall tivo desktop. Useless of coarse. I am highly vexed with no solution being offered.


----------



## Fortynine

I suspect that re-installing the Tivo Desktop made no difference. The up-loads still failed......right?

At this point I doubt the "Tivo people" have any solution in the works. When my service is up I'll probably dump TIVO for a DVR from my cable service. From what I understand, their up-loads WORK!


----------



## HPD

Fortynine said:


> I suspect that re-installing the Tivo Desktop made no difference. The up-loads still failed......right?
> 
> At this point I doubt the "Tivo people" have any solution in the works. When my service is up I'll probably dump TIVO for a DVR from my cable service. From what I understand, their up-loads WORK!


A Tivo employee posts on this board under the name TivoJerry. He said they were having great success with fixing this problem and it will roll out with the next update sometime this month.


----------



## Mikef5

I recently started having this problem of transferring programs from the Tivo to my PC about a week ago. I've done a lot of testing and it seems that this affects only one channel and that's NBC. I can't fully transfer anything from NBC be it HD, digital or even analog and it's not copy protected and it affects all of their programing, even the locally produced programs. Every other channel works ( unless copy protected ) , it's just NBC that doesn't work properly.

Has anyone seen this problem as being only on one channel or are you seeing it on multiple channels and in that case my problem is unique ??

Laters,
Mikef5


----------



## VideoGrabber

Yes, Mike. I've seen the same behavior myself. Almost 100&#37; failure rate on NBC-HD, and almost 0% on most other channels.

I'd recommend if you have the space to spare, you might want to hang onto the important programs until the next version is released. You may be able to recover them at that point. It would be worth trying, based on the optimism TivoJerry has expressed.

- Tim


----------



## ghken

Same observation here - NBC seems to be the problem for me.

The first TTG attempt I made after getting some HD recordings on my S3 a few months back was NBC's Chuck. Stopped after only a few seconds and I thought uh oh, this HD transfer thing doesn't work so well.

Of course I immediately searched TCF for answers and found this thread. Downloaded the trial version of Videoredo and checked the frame sequence preceeding the fail point and sure enough, I saw a string of several consecutive P frames. 

I saw TivoJerry's post saying they believe a lot of these transfer problems will be resolved, so I left it at that and just held off on doing much TTG.

I did a few tests of other network shows and they all transferred successfully, including CBS/PBS 1080i shows. All of the NBC shows - SNL, Conan - have all failed within seconds.


----------



## Mikef5

VideoGrabber said:


> Yes, Mike. I've seen the same behavior myself. Almost 100% failure rate on NBC-HD, and almost 0% on most other channels.
> 
> I'd recommend if you have the space to spare, you might want to hang onto the important programs until the next version is released. You may be able to recover them at that point. It would be worth trying, based on the optimism TivoJerry has expressed.
> 
> - Tim


Thanks for the response, I had thought that it just might be my TivoHD that was screwed up but it looks like it's something that NBC is doing. On a side note, NBC is now working correctly ( knock on wood ) but the older saved programs still fail at the same spot as before. Hopefully, they will issue a fix soon before it fails to transfer stuff again.

Laters,
Mikef5


----------



## leiff

So I finally was able to figure out I can reduce my midtransfer failure rate by abandoning the cue feature and just scheduling one recording at a time. Noone else has noted this but it seems clear to me. The worst part is ofcoarse once a recording stops midtransfer, no matter how many times you reschedule recording, it won't go past stopped point, even if on your tivo you replace recording with the next upcoming showing of the event. Grrr..


----------



## adambpsu

Regarding the NBC HD transfers - I just successfully transfered my first NBC recording yesterday. Every other one has failed, most notably the Winter Classic that I have been trying to transfer for months. Initially I was thinking that NBC had nearly a 100% failure rate, but I was proven wrong.


----------



## Fortynine

Does Desktop 2.6 address any of our download problems? Apparently it was released today but I have yet to download and try it out.


----------



## HPD

Fortynine said:


> Does Desktop 2.6 address any of our download problems? Apparently it was released today but I have yet to download and try it out.


The software on board the Tivo needs updating to fix that problem. It is supposed to be in March from what I have read here.


----------



## Fortynine

Your right! I guess we'll have to wait for the Tivo update to fix the upload problem. I downloaded the new 2.6 version of Tivo Desktop and the same programs that failed previously failed again, and at the same place in the file.


----------



## richsadams

Fortynine said:


> Does Desktop 2.6 address any of our download problems? Apparently it was released today but I have yet to download and try it out.


As TiVoJerry previously promised back in January...



TiVoJerry said:


> I just wanted to let you all know that it looks like we have a handle on the problem for the majority of transfer failures. Testing is looking real good for this issue. We're still a short while away from the release that carries it but I will try to remember to post here when the priority page goes up so you can see for yourself.
> 
> Thank you all for your patience.





TiVoJerry said:


> Yes, previously affected programs should be transferrable after the update.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5920176#post5920176

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5920533#post5920533


----------



## greg_burns

HPD said:


> The software on board the Tivo needs updating to fix that problem. It is supposed to be in March from what I have read here.


I heard it was going to be *after* the superbowl.  A specific month wasn't given was it? TD 2.6 was promised and delivered in March.


----------



## Fortynine

Release 2.6 does not fix the problem. Programs that failed previously to upload from Tivo continue to fail at the same point of failure as with release 2.5


----------



## SnakeEyes

Because the problem is not with TD.


----------



## kas25

richsadams said:


> I havent used the I.P. transfer method with a Mac, but I dont know of any reason it would be different than that of a PC. If it doesnt work, let us know and Im sure an Apple expert can help.
> 
> To perform I.P. transfers (in lieu of using TiVo Desktop) youll need two things: your TiVo Media Access Key (MAK) and your TiVos I.P. address.
> 
> *MAK*: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Account and System Information > Media Access Key. It can also be obtained by logging into your TiVo account at http://www.tivo.com > Manage My Account > Related Links (RH column).
> 
> *I.P. address*: Go to TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Settings > Phone and Network. Or you can get it by opening TiVo Desktop > Server > TiVo Server Properties > Access Control.​
> Once you have that information open your Internet browser. Type in:
> 
> *https://<tivo ip>/* (or if you want to be technical, https://<tivo ip>/nowplaying/index.html)​
> NOTE: The "s" for a secure connection in http*s*:// is important otherwise youll just get a standard TiVo information screen.
> 
> You may get a certificate warning; accept the certificate.
> 
> A login screen will appear. Type in:
> 
> Username: *tivo* (w/o the parenthesis)
> Password: your *MAK *number.​
> The Now Playing screen will appear. To the right youll see download links for each program. If you click on one the login screen will appear again. Enter the same login information as above and your normal download program should take over. Youll need to save the program to disk, indicating where you want to save it (usually your My TiVo Recordings folder.)
> 
> To avoid the repeated login screen, I have my computer save the info for the next time so I dont have to keep filling it out.
> 
> For going the other way, iTunes-to-TiVo, theres a program called Playlist Exporter. Ive never used it, but hear that it works well.
> 
> FYI, for PC users there is a very easy to use program called TivoPlayList that has basically automated this process and also has some nice added features such as disk space tool, etc.
> 
> Hope that helps!


I was able to get this to work last night. Thanks for the advice. My only issue now is that I have .tivo files which I want to get to Mpeg4 format (high quality). Any advice as Visual Hub doesn't seem to handle these.


----------



## HPD

greg_burns said:


> I heard it was going to be *after* the superbowl.  A specific month wasn't given was it? TD 2.6 was promised and delivered in March.


In recent days, some people have reported that they have been upgraded to 9.3.


----------



## pmrowley

I was directed to this thread by another poster, so I'll reiterate my issues here.

Unlike a lot (all?) of the posts in this thread, I'm having issues sending large files TO my S3. I have a lot of PAL-encoded content that I am transcoding to 1080i NTSC MPEG2 format with a professional transcoding software package, then transferring to my S3 for viewing on my big screen.

The uploads go fine when the show is about an hour long, and is about 6GB or so of content. 

However, if the file is larger, say 17GB or so (2 hours,) the transfer never gets past about a seconds' worth of data down to the S3. I have verified that this is not a firewall issue (disabled,) a network issue (hardwired through a gigabit switch, and if it was a network issue, the 6GB transfer wouldn't have gone,) and have rebooted the S3 multiple times. If I select the "view while downloading" option when the download has started, Tivo comes back with a "transfer interrupted" message almost immediately. This is a S3 with about 1TB of free space, so it couldn't possibly be a space issue.

Do we have some kind of hard limit on the file size that can be uploaded?

TIA,
-P


----------



## CuriousMark

pmrowley,
Sorry I misunderstood your post, I thought your problem was TiVo to PC, and that is why I directed you here. I guess I didn't read closely enough and I apologize.

All the right people to help you out, do participate in this thread, so you will get the best help available, even if they choose to answer in your original thread.


----------



## MikeLaw

I haven't posted here in a thousand years, but I am having similar issues. I haven't done exhaustive testing, but for me every show recorded on NBC-HD fails in the first minute or two, transferring 15 meg of a multi-gig show. The exact byte counts differ by recording, but it stops at the exact same point for a particular show no matter what method I use to transfer the show.

As best I follow this thread, the conclusion is that we are waiting for some future TiVo release and there is no workaround. Sound about right?


----------



## pkeegan

I'll add my experience with this problem which is that I'm unable to download most of the HD PBS series 'Nature' and 'Nova'. I've had success transferring HD content on other stations.


----------



## bigbopper

jcthorne said:


> Transfers of HD material from a PC to Tivo have taken some work to find combos that work but not for Tivo to PC.


What's your secret?
I can successfully transfer and play SD home movies in .wmv. I've been trying to make some HD home movies and transfer them to Tivo. They play but the images are too large and are chopped off at left right and bottom. I encoded them in .wmv @ 1280x720. I tried scaling them down but they looked exactly the same. I tried all the aspect ratio controls I could find on my TV and Tivo. I also tried .mov. I was going to try .avi but the file is WAAYYYY too big. I should add that these are screen captures from Camtasia and use the TSCC codec.

S3 and Tivo 2.6


----------



## tspofford

tspofford said:


> I've set up Clapton's 2007 Crossroads Festival, one of the programs that has repeatedly failed (and one that I most want) to start 5 minutes late, on Sunday.


Well, I finally have some data, not much, to supplement the above. Using various HD and LoDef broadcasts of this show, I've found that:


except as noted below, transferring the HD versions from Tivo to PC have all failed at the same point, right at the beginning of the show. (5 different HD broadcasts of the same program)

transferring LoDef versions of the same show (2 broadcasts) from Tivo to PC have been error free

transferring one HD version that I set up to record manually, +5 minutes after the show's scheduled start, proceeded without incident, to completion.

I continue to think that, at least in my case, the failures are the result of some embedded start of program (or end of program) code in the file, and that the one iteration I was able to transfer successfully did so because I started it 5 minutes late and so bypassed the problem code. Although I used the Clapton Crossroads show for my testing, I have had other programs from different HD channels that have behaved the same way, e.g., Etta James on Austin City Limits. The transfers fail without error messages, 1-2 minutes into the recording. Tivo Desktop seems to think they've completed but in actuality, the files are very small and only iinclude the first minute or two of the program.


----------



## richsadams

So when you set up an HD program to start five minutes early the resulting recording transfers to your PC without a problem (assuming you're using TiVo Desktop)? Have you been able to replicate that? If so, that's very good information and would certainly support your theory of problematic data being located at the beginning of a program. 

I haven't been having any failures of late, but I'd be interested to hear the results from anyone else that has with trying the +5 min. work-around.


----------



## VideoGrabber

> _when you set up an HD program to start five minutes early_ <

Rich, no, I think he meant 5 minutes *late*, not early. Thus skipping over some problematical marker embedded in the stream at the front.

To do so, you have to set things up manually, because the padding feature only works in one direction (unfortunately).

- Tim


----------



## richsadams

Ohhhhh. Got it, thanks for that. (I have to stop reading these things so late at night.  ) That makes more sense. I was having a hard time figuring out what data might be generated at the start of a program which wouldn't be there if you started recording earlier (unless TiVo was injecting something at the beginning of each recording.)

So could you start it one minute late and get the same results? Or what if you did start it five minutes early? Is it data generated at the end of a _previous _program as the OP suggests? Or is the issue one to two minutes into the new recording because the OP's files fail at that point? 

Whatever the case, this is good info and might narrow down the cause of at least some failed transfers. I wonder then why some are seeing this and some are not being that we're all on the same software version. Something that the local cableco's are generating?


----------



## tspofford

VideoGrabber said:


> > _when you set up an HD program to start five minutes early_ <
> 
> Rich, no, I think he meant 5 minutes *late*, not early. Thus skipping over some problematical marker embedded in the stream at the front.
> 
> - Tim


That's right, 5 minutes late. I'd try 1 minute or, better, 2 if I could but the manual start that I was referred to here is in 5 minute increments.

It looks, basically, like it's at the top of the hour, at the point at which program 1 transitions to program 2. It seems to catch a snippet, less than a minute, of the upcoming program, the one I want to record. End of program, stop code, seems more likely given the symptoms. I virtually always set my recordings to start on time, never (or very rarely) early.

I'm going to try to replicate it with a couple of the other programs for which transfers have persistently failed and see if the same thing happens.

Tim S


----------



## richsadams

tspofford said:


> That's right, 5 minutes late. I'd try 1 minute or, better, 2 if I could but the manual start that I was referred to here is in 5 minute increments.
> 
> It looks, basically, like it's at the top of the hour, at the point at which program 1 transitions to program 2. It seems to catch a snippet, less than a minute, of the upcoming program, the one I want to record. End of program, stop code, seems more likely given the symptoms. I virtually always set my recordings to start on time, never (or very rarely) early.
> 
> I'm going to try to replicate it with a couple of the other programs for which transfers have persistently failed and see if the same thing happens.
> 
> Tim S


Thanks for following up on this and giving it a few more tests. :up:

Is it possible it has anything to do with switching tuners? I know when we record two programs back to back on the same channel, TiVo's current software causes it to switch tuners each time rather than staying on the same tuner. IIRC TiVoJerry said that the next upgrade would remedy that situation. Just wondering if it has anything to do with that?


----------



## VideoGrabber

Tim,
> _That's right, 5 minutes late. I'd try 1 minute or, better, 2 if I could but the manual start that I was referred to here is in 5 minute increments._ <

The base values are in 5-min increments, but you can use Options to then start 1,2,3, or 4 minutes early, from that 5-min delayed base. Thus obtaining a net 4,3,2,1 minute delay from the real start.

Rich,
nope.

- Tim


----------



## leiff

okay, since I've upgraded desktop 2.6 no more partial recording problems so far. However, Now around the 20 minute mark into my programs the progress bar on wmp11 reaches the end and I loose all navigation ability even though the show will keep playing. Anyone seen this?


----------



## tspofford

richsadams said:


> Thanks for following up on this and giving it a few more tests. :up:
> 
> Is it possible it has anything to do with switching tuners?


I'm pretty sure that's not the issue. In none of the cases that I can think of did the circumstances for that apply.

I managed to record another program that I'd been having the issue with, on a different network that the previous one. Again, started it manually 5 minutes late, thereby skipping the hypothetical code, and again it recorded through to the end.

Is there a Tivo programmer - or if not, a knowledgable consumer (as opposed to WAGers) - here that can tell us for sure whether the machine uses (a) the system time or (b) code in the feed or (c) both to start recording? As I mentioned earlier, it starts recording on the hour but often catches a little bit (10-30 seconds) of between program promotions. Normally this wouldn't be an issue to end users but if it's enough to catch some problem code (again, hypothetical), it might be key.

tim


----------



## HDTiVo

I guess 9.3 isn&#180;t out that long to too many people, so there&#180;s no word on whether the P-frame anomoly transfer failures are fixed?

Reading the last two months worth of comments, I want to mention that the p-frame anomoly transfer failures are not associated with playback glitches.

This thread has now incorporated quite a large variety of transfer failures of different types, and it is important to recognize that we may be responding to a failure of a different type than the one we think we are.

I do think the p-frame anomoly one chokes the TiVo at the TiVo (not at TD) and the recent evidence is all supporting that. I think the "bad" recordings come from combination(s) of broadcaster equipment and cable equipment, and thus it is observed or not observed depending on which system/source you are using. It is also why it is sometimes channel dependent for some people. I still don&#180;t think anyone has reported a true 720p p-frame anomoly. 

With the manual recording skip n minutes idea, is it just working on shows which transfer fail in the first <n minutes? Surely it does not help for a failure well into the program? It might be interesting to use both tuners to manually record the same broadcast of the same program, starting at different times, and compare transfer results.

One of the most interesting comments has been that sometimes re-broadcasts of the same program fail at the same point.(?) I can remember one instance where I had two different programs (same channel, same night) fail to transfer on the same frame of the same commercial: ie. the commercial was broadcast during both programs and the p-frame failure occured at the same frame of both instances of that commercial. Only one data point though.


----------



## tspofford

HDTiVo said:


> I do think the p-frame anomoly one chokes the TiVo at the TiVo (not at TD) and the recent evidence is all supporting that.


What the hell is a "p-frame anomoly"? What's a p-frame?



HDTiVo said:


> With the manual recording skip n minutes idea, is it just working on shows which transfer fail in the first <n minutes? Surely it does not help for a failure well into the program?


All of my failures have been in the first <n minutes>. Absent more information than we have now, I'm guessing other failures reported by others at, say, 20 minutes in are caused by something else.



HDTiVo said:


> One of the most interesting comments has been that sometimes re-broadcasts of the same program fail at the same point.(?)


Yes, that is correct or, to be as accurate as I can, at what SEEMS to be the same point. There may be a difference of seconds or fractions of a second but if so, I cannot discern it. Sometimes the re-broadcasts are weeks later. They still fail to transfer at the same point.

I just upgraded yesterday to 2.6. I don't know yet whether it will make any difference. I haven't seen a failed transfer yet, but in the past they have been sufficiently unpredictable that it could take a couple of weeks of regular use to get a good sense. I'll do that; just don't expect a report right away - unless I get another failure right away.



HDTiVo said:


> I can remember one instance where I had two different programs (same channel, same night) fail to transfer on the same frame of the same commercial: ie. the commercial was broadcast during both programs and the p-frame failure occured at the same frame of both instances of that commercial. Only one data point though.


That may be consistent with what I'm seeing, as described in this and earlier messages. Superficially it is.

Tim S


----------



## greg_burns

tspofford said:


> What the hell is a "p-frame anomoly"? What's a p-frame?


See post #1. 

If you install VideoReDo, you can see the different frame types.

View->Display On Screen Information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2


> MPEG-2 specifies that the raw frames be compressed into three kinds of frames: intra-coded frames (I-frames), predictive-coded frames (P-frames), and bidirectionally-predictive-coded frames (B-frames).


----------



## tspofford

greg_burns said:


> If you install VideoReDo, you can see the different frame types.


I tried VideoReDo a few weeks ago. It told me nothin' that I understood. I'll try again.



greg_burns said:


> bidirectionally-predictive-coded frames


Ahhhh, THAT helps enormously! You could have written it in English and I still probably wouldn't understand. 

Tim S


----------



## greg_burns

tspofford said:


> Ahhhh, THAT helps enormously! You could have written it in English and I still probably wouldn't understand.


Doesn't mean much to me either. But I do know, if you load a .tivo file in VR and step frame by frame it will show you whether it is I, B, or P. From what I've read that controls things like when you fast fwd with your Tivo. It can only skip fwd to certain frames types. That is why ffwd with an S3 is different than with an S2. S2s had control over where these frame were (and how many) because it created the digital stream. The S3/TivoHD just has to work with what comes from the cable co. That is why it trickplay features sometimes feels sloppy w/ an S3. compared to an S2.

That is my layman understanding. Probably not right, but helps me to understand these types of conversations.


----------



## HDTiVo

pmrowley said:


> I was directed to this thread by another poster, so I'll reiterate my issues here.
> 
> Unlike a lot (all?) of the posts in this thread, I'm having issues sending large files TO my S3. I have a lot of PAL-encoded content that I am transcoding to 1080i NTSC MPEG2 format with a professional transcoding software package, then transferring to my S3 for viewing on my big screen.
> 
> The uploads go fine when the show is about an hour long, and is about 6GB or so of content.
> 
> However, if the file is larger, say 17GB or so (2 hours,) the transfer never gets past about a seconds' worth of data down to the S3. I have verified that this is not a firewall issue (disabled,) a network issue (hardwired through a gigabit switch, and if it was a network issue, the 6GB transfer wouldn't have gone,) and have rebooted the S3 multiple times. If I select the "view while downloading" option when the download has started, Tivo comes back with a "transfer interrupted" message almost immediately. This is a S3 with about 1TB of free space, so it couldn't possibly be a space issue.
> 
> Do we have some kind of hard limit on the file size that can be uploaded?
> 
> TIA,
> -P


As a general comment to those who have brought up PC to S3 problems, TiVo did say that HD content (other than .tivo) ´would be troublesome in this initial release.

One little specific observation is your successful transfers seem to be encoded at 6GB/hr and the unsuccessful ones at 8.5GB/hr. Chances are you need to search for parameters that happen to work well, at least for now.


----------



## HDTiVo

tspofford said:


> All of my failures have been in the first <n minutes>. Absent more information than we have now, I'm guessing other failures reported by others at, say, 20 minutes in are caused by something else.


I have had p-frame failures occur near the end of programs, ie. 57 min.

Chances are that later failures aren´t often observed because some earlier failure point already occured. It might be interesting to use partial MRVs to start a TTC transfer after a failure point to see if another one gets hit later in the program.

Another idea about manual recording... how about recording a program simultaneously OTA and from cable source to compare?


----------



## HDTiVo

greg_burns said:


> Doesn't mean much to me either. But I do know, if you load a .tivo file in VR and step frame by frame it will show you whether it is I, B, or P. From what I've read that controls things like when you fast fwd with your Tivo. It can only skip fwd to certain frames types. That is why ffwd with an S3 is different than with an S2. S2s had control over where these frame were (and how many) because it created the digital stream. The S3/TivoHD just has to work with what comes from the cable co. That is why it trickplay features sometimes feels sloppy w/ an S3. compared to an S2.
> 
> That is my layman understanding. Probably not right, but helps me to understand these types of conversations.


It is the backing up (rewind, etc.) that is a problem. Of course, TiVo FF involves some backing up. 

-----

VR has a setting somewhere that turns on/off the I/P/B frame indicator. If it isn´t accessible via a right click in the video window, its buried somewhere in the settings. So if you don´t see the little letter in the upper right corner, that´s why.


----------



## greg_burns

HDTiVo said:


> VR has a setting somewhere that turns on/off the I/P/B frame indicator.


View->Display On Screen Information.


----------



## kas25

leiff said:


> okay, since I've upgraded desktop 2.6 no more partial recording problems so far.


I have not had failed recording using Tivo Decoder in awhile as well.


----------



## leiff

since 2.6 desktop upgrade, many of my programs transferred from my s3 onto my pc are misbehaving using wmp11. progress bar maxes out around the 20 minute mark disabling all navigation ability after that. Trying to re-record same program results in duplication of said problem. Called Tivo phone support. They suggested a network problem but did not offer a solution. Also suggested using a different media player but could not recommend one.-phone support=Waste of time. One more problem I've noticed that doesn't bother me but may be symptomatic of something else- when transferring program from s3 to pc, the size of said file will not update and will not show past 12 MB on main tivo desktop screen untill transfer is completely finished. I mention this because 5.1 desktop did not have this problem. I've tried reinstalling tivo desktop. Should I try reinstalling wmp11 ? How about using a player besides wmp11 that works good with HD content? Is anyone else having these problems?


----------



## moyekj

leiff said:


> How about using a player besides wmp11 that works good with HD content? Is anyone else having these problems?


 VideoLAN VLC is a good start. The main advantage is it has all it's own built in codecs and doesn't rely on codecs and the codec weighting system in Windows and plays just about everything you throw at it, and it works on multiple platforms besides Windows as well. Down side is the interface is a little clunky. But if nothing else it's good for testing purposes to help determine if you have a WIndows codec issue or not.


----------



## leiff

Can you confirm VLC will play tivo recordings? I thought I tried that already. Or if it needs codecs what are they. I know media player classic wouldn't play tivo files even after I installed k-lite codec pac.


----------



## moyekj

leiff said:


> Can you confirm VLC will play tivo recordings? I thought I tried that already. Or if it needs codecs what are they. I know media player classic wouldn't play tivo files even after I installed k-lite codec pac.


 You have to decrypt .TiVo files to unencrypted .mpg files 1st but that's a quick step. Many tools available to do that, for example Tivo Decoder UI. If you prefer command line you can use tivodecode. If you want 1 step downloads + decrypts you can use kmttg


----------



## greg_burns

moyekj said:


> for example Tivo Decoder UI.


That link takes you only to the first version (v1.0.0.0).

This one allow you to pick the later one (v1.1.0.0)...

http://www.gmonweb.com/portal/CodingFun/Downloads/tabid/54/Default.aspx


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## moyekj

greg_burns said:


> That link takes you only to the first version (v1.0.0.0).
> 
> This one allow you to pick the later one (v1.1.0.0)...
> 
> http://www.gmonweb.com/portal/CodingFun/Downloads/tabid/54/Default.aspx


 No biggie, but check again... 1st link under "Latest Uploads" has v1.1.0.0.


----------



## ghken

HDTiVo said:


> I guess 9.3 isn´t out that long to too many people, so there´s no word on whether the P-frame anomoly transfer failures are fixed?


Maybe I can be the first to chime in with some positive results. A few minutes ago I discovered that I'd been updated to 9.3, so I started a transfer of one of my problem NBC shows that previously failed within the first few seconds because of the consecutive P frames.

So far the transfer has gone far beyond the previous fail point and is still going. I'm currently at 10% and the full download should be done in a little more than an hour. Very encouraging.

The only thing that seems a bit strange is the displayed file size is not incrementing on the main Tivo Desktop screen as the transfer progresses. It stopped at 8MB, which I'm pretty sure was the point that the transfer used to fail. But the transfer status window is still showing progress being made with the Status and Time Estimate readings incrementing appropriately.

Fingers are crossed until it completes, but it looks like the P frame problem may be resolved.


----------



## richsadams

ghken said:


> Maybe I can be the first to chime in with some positive results. A few minutes ago I discovered that I'd been updated to 9.3, so I started a transfer of one of my problem NBC shows that previously failed within the first few seconds because of the consecutive P frames.
> 
> So far the transfer has gone far beyond the previous fail point and is still going. I'm currently at 10% and the full download should be done in a little more than an hour. Very encouraging.
> 
> The only thing that seems a bit strange is the displayed file size is not incrementing on the main Tivo Desktop screen as the transfer progresses. It stopped at 8MB, which I'm pretty sure was the point that the transfer used to fail. But the transfer status window is still showing progress being made with the Status and Time Estimate readings incrementing appropriately.
> 
> Fingers are crossed until it completes, but it looks like the P frame problem may be resolved.


Thanks for the info. :up:

Still on v9.2a, but I noticed that after upgrading to TiVo Desktop (Plus) v2.6 that the displayed file size transfer also stops at an initial figure (5MB, 8MB, etc.) and never updates until the transfer is finished.

Let us know if your transfer was successful!


----------



## kas25

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the info. :up:
> 
> Still on v9.2a, but I noticed that after upgrading to TiVo Desktop (Plus) v2.6 that the displayed file size transfer also stops at an initial figure (5MB, 8MB, etc.) and never updates until the transfer is finished.
> 
> Let us know if your transfer was successful!


I sometimes see the same so I just keeping clicking on the actual file to make sure its getting bigger.


----------



## ghken

richsadams said:


> Thanks for the info. :up:
> 
> Still on v9.2a, but I noticed that after upgrading to TiVo Desktop (Plus) v2.6 that the displayed file size transfer also stops at an initial figure (5MB, 8MB, etc.) and never updates until the transfer is finished.
> 
> Let us know if your transfer was successful!


I also just upgraded Tivo Desktop to 2.6. Good to know that that is the likely cause of the file size not refreshing and that it's not related to any problems in the file.

As far as the test transfer goes, I'm afraid I have to report back with an Incomplete. After about 30% of the download was done, I thought I would try to start watching the partial transfer in WMP to see how it looked. But my CPU was too taxed to watch without stuttering, so I shutdown WMP. At that point Tivo Desktop hung, showing 'Not Responding' in task manager. I closed it, reopened it, and the transfer picked up where it left off.

At the time I began this transfer, my S3 was recording Letterman and Leno in HD and I had Leno playing back live on my television. After a few minutes of the transfer restart, I noticed the Leno playback started to freeze. The time remaining estimate for my transfer shot up to 20/30 hours.

I shutdown Tivo Desktop and the S3 slowly but surely came back to normal. I was afraid a lockup/reboot was going to happen, but it didn't. At that point it was time for bed, and I won't have another chance to test until this evening.

Will report back tonight with hopefully a succesful and complete transfer.


----------



## greg_burns

kas25 said:


> I sometimes see the same so I just keeping clicking on the actual file to make sure its getting bigger.


F5 in Windows Explorer is your friend.


----------



## leiff

Does decoding tivo file to mpeg loose quality on HD content? To install tivo decoder I am prompted to install 22.4 MB size NET Framework Version 2.0 Redistributable Package. Is this okay? Or would I be better off with kmttg.


----------



## greg_burns

leiff said:


> Does decoding tivo file to mpeg loose quality on HD content? To install tivo decoder I am prompted to install 22.4 MB size NET Framework Version 2.0 Redistributable Package. Is this okay? Or would I be better off with kmttg.


.tivo files are already MPEG-2 format. They just have some sort of encryption layer added to them. Running through DirectShow Dump nor TivoDecode will not change any quality levels AFAIK.

I am surprised you do not already have .NET 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, or 3.5 installed already.  It (shouldn't) hurt anything to install either (or all) of these versions of the .NET framework on your machine.


----------



## moyekj

leiff said:


> Does decoding tivo file to mpeg loose quality on HD content? To install tivo decoder I am prompted to install 22.4 MB size NET Framework Version 2.0 Redistributable Package. Is this okay? Or would I be better off with kmttg.


 DirectShow Dump is another tool that can decode .TiVo files and I believe doesn't require .NET framework. tivodecode doesn't have a GUI and therefore has no other prerequisites and is what Tivo Decoder UI is calling to do the decryption. kmttg gives you ability to easily download and decrypt multiple shows at once (among other things) all within one GUI but you have to have Perl installed to run it. If you want to do any kind of scripting of your own Perl is a very good option to have anyway.


----------



## greg_burns

moyekj said:


> DirectShow Dump is another tool that can decode .TiVo files and I believe doesn't require .NET framework.


Actually, it does. In fact the installer was created in such a way that it requires .NET 1.1 when it shouldn't. Another reason to abandon it for TivoDecode solutions.

BTW, DSD will run just find on a machine w/o .NET 1.1 (but a newer version of .NET) if can get the .exe out of the .msi file.


----------



## HDTiVo

ghken said:


> Fingers are crossed until it completes, but it looks like the P frame problem may be resolved.


For god sake! Don´t declare the p-frame problem fixed (or any other) after downloading 10% of one program!!!!!!!


----------



## sathead

ghken said:


> Maybe I can be the first to chime in with some positive results. A few minutes ago I discovered that I'd been updated to 9.3, so I started a transfer of one of my problem NBC shows that previously failed within the first few seconds because of the consecutive P frames.
> 
> So far the transfer has gone far beyond the previous fail point and is still going. I'm currently at 10% and the full download should be done in a little more than an hour. Very encouraging.


My TiVoHD also on 9.3 now, and all my "failed to transfer" recordings that I have saved since I got the TiVoHD (Jan 7th, 2008) have now successfully transferred to my computer... except for one "problem" recording. All the back episodes of BSG from UHD that failed have now been transferred, as well as the six movies I was sitting on have been transferred too! So, I'm only stuck with one show that won't transfer now- as soon as the Hauppauge HD-PVR device comes out- that particular movie will be the first thing I test the HD-PVR device with.
In my case, the 9.3 update has pretty much solved the "failed transfers" issue.


----------



## richsadams

sathead said:


> My TiVoHD also on 9.3 now, and all my "failed to transfer" recordings that I have saved since I got the TiVoHD (Jan 7th, 2008) have now successfully transferred to my computer... except for one "problem" recording. All the back episodes of BSG from UHD that failed have now been transferred, as well as the six movies I was sitting on have been transferred too! So, I'm only stuck with one show that won't transfer now- as soon as the Hauppauge HD-PVR device comes out- that particular movie will be the first thing I test the HD-PVR device with.
> In my case, the 9.3 update has pretty much solved the "failed transfers" issue.


Excellent to know! Thanks for the post! :up:


----------



## sathead

richsadams said:


> Excellent to know! Thanks for the post! :up:


Kudos to the smart boys.... they did a good job this time!
My transfer speeds are faster too, up to 1950Kb/sec now- so even Hi-Def transfers download faster than real time to my PC


----------



## ghken

Since the 9.3 update I have successfully transferred 3 different programs that used to always fail at the same frame. These all had the consecutive p-frame sequences prior to the transfer stopping point. All NBC shows and failed within the first 5-10 seconds. Now they are all on my PC.


----------



## guava

I have had no problems using Roxio's Xfer app with 9.3. I was having problems with eps of Angel but it is better. But Tivo Decode Manager is still very bad so I use Roxio and then TiVo Decoder.

Running on Leopard latest patch.

BTW anyone else have trouble with Decode Manager? It would be nice to get an update.


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## captainDlp

Has anybody had problems with .tivo files in videoRedo? TivoDesktop wasn't working due to the usual failed downloads so I started using the web interface and everything went fine. Just recently though my transferred .tivo files wont even come up in videoRedo. I tried tivo decryptor and it still works fine. I just need to strip commercials. Any ideas?


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## greg_burns

captainDlp said:


> Has anybody had problems with .tivo files in videoRedo? TivoDesktop wasn't working due to the usual failed downloads so I started using the web interface and everything went fine. Just recently though my transferred .tivo files wont even come up in videoRedo. I tried tivo decryptor and it still works fine. I just need to strip commercials. Any ideas?


You have to have TivoDesktop installed to see .tivo files listed in VideoReDo.


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## richsadams

captainDlp said:


> Has anybody had problems with .tivo files in videoRedo? TivoDesktop wasn't working due to the usual failed downloads so I started using the web interface and everything went fine. Just recently though my transferred .tivo files wont even come up in videoRedo. I tried tivo decryptor and it still works fine. I just need to strip commercials. Any ideas?


Welcome to the forum. :up: Greg is right, you need to have TiVo Desktop installed for .tivo files to show up in VideoReDo.

TiVo Desktop v2.6 is out now and based on numerous posts, the failed transfer issue seems to have been resolved.


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## moyekj

richsadams said:


> TiVo Desktop v2.6 is out now and based on numerous posts, the failed transfer issue seems to have been resolved.


 Resolved by new 9.3 software on the Tivos (which not everyone has yet), not by Tivo Desktop v2.6.


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## richsadams

moyekj said:


> Resolved by new 9.3 software on the Tivos (which not everyone has yet), not by Tivo Desktop v2.6.


Okay, but my failed transfers (and IIRC other's) started working properly after installing TiVo Desktop v2.6. I still have v9.2a on both our Series3 and TiVo HD.


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## moyekj

richsadams said:


> Okay, but my failed transfers (and IIRC other's) started working properly after installing TiVo Desktop v2.6. I still have v9.2a on both our Series3 and TiVo HD.


 Yes I guess there are multiple different problems with failing transfers. The infamous multiple P-frame problem which originated this thread was the one I was thinking of that seems to have been cured only by 9.3, not Tivo Desktop.


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## ccrider2

Laserfan said:


> Chris is there any chance you are trying to transfer to a hard drive on the PC that is formatted FAT32? Such drives can't deal with files >4Gb, and surely "White Christmas" is bigger than that. You need NTFS formatted drive(s) for HD.
> 
> Our affiliate didn't broadcast an HD White Christmas...! I'm mad/jealous!


Sorry it took so long to get back. I guess I quit getting notices of activity on this thread for some reason. When I finally checked the thread, I was 10 pages behind. I haven't read them all yet, so please forgive me if the answer to my transfer problem is in a future post. Been working on an OTA Zenith/WiRNS/ReplayTV setup.

PS: The drive is NTFS.

Thanks Much,
Chris


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## captainDlp

richsadams said:


> Welcome to the forum. :up: Greg is right, you need to have TiVo Desktop installed for .tivo files to show up in VideoReDo.
> 
> TiVo Desktop v2.6 is out now and based on numerous posts, the failed transfer issue seems to have been resolved.


Thanks for the welcome and quick response! I'm a little confused though. I probably should have mentioned that I have a TivoHD unit. Some of the .tivo files still come up fine while the latest transfers do not. Are you saying that when the file downloads from the tivo that TivoDesktop has to be installed for videoRedo to recognize a valid .mpg stream within the .tivo file? I can understand a necessary plugin (for lack of a better word) to be installed at the same time videoRedo is trying to decode the .tivo files but that doesn't seem to be necessary on all my transfers. I'll give it a shot. 
...didn't work. "unable to open"

AND heres the answer!
I transferred ownership in between the transfers so the MAK changed. VideoRedo gets the MAK from a registry key (or something) so it can only playback files with the right MAK. I changed the MAK in Tivo Desktop and some work but now I can't play back the old files. I'll have to see if re-transferring them makes a difference or if I just have to juggle MAKs.


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## ccrider2

richsadams said:


> Okay, but my failed transfers (and IIRC other's) started working properly after installing TiVo Desktop v2.6. I still have v9.2a on both our Series3 and TiVo HD.


Congrats Rich! .....Didn't help me.  Hopefully the up-in-coming 9.3a will.

Chris


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## HDTiVo

captainDlp said:


> AND heres the answer!
> I transferred ownership in between the transfers so the MAK changed. VideoRedo gets the MAK from a registry key (or something) so it can only playback files with the right MAK. I changed the MAK in Tivo Desktop and some work but now I can't play back the old files. I'll have to see if re-transferring them makes a difference or if I just have to juggle MAKs.


Re-transfering ought to solve your MAK problem. Or you could use the old MAK to output mpegs of the old .tivoes and then just go with the new MAK for everything else.

I struggle with the wisdom of keeping .tivoes around in case someday I can´t access them for some reason. Keep the metadata or keep the show?


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## richsadams

captainDlp said:


> Thanks for the welcome and quick response! I'm a little confused though. I probably should have mentioned that I have a TivoHD unit. Some of the .tivo files still come up fine while the latest transfers do not. Are you saying that when the file downloads from the tivo that TivoDesktop has to be installed for videoRedo to recognize a valid .mpg stream within the .tivo file? I can understand a necessary plugin (for lack of a better word) to be installed at the same time videoRedo is trying to decode the .tivo files but that doesn't seem to be necessary on all my transfers. I'll give it a shot.
> ...didn't work. "unable to open"
> 
> AND heres the answer!
> I transferred ownership in between the transfers so the MAK changed. VideoRedo gets the MAK from a registry key (or something) so it can only playback files with the right MAK. I changed the MAK in Tivo Desktop and some work but now I can't play back the old files. I'll have to see if re-transferring them makes a difference or if I just have to juggle MAKs.


Sounds like you have it under control. You should be using VideoReDo TVSuite. That should cover all of the bases particularly if you're having trouble with Hi Def transfers.


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## VideoGrabber

Say, Rich, is there some particular advantage to the TVSuite version for HD?

Since the regular version has been working fine for me, I've never bothered to install the TVS, though I did buy it when offered, just on general principle. It looked like it was more focused on SD DVD stuff, so I haven't even looked at it.

- Tim


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## richsadams

VideoGrabber said:


> Say, Rich, is there some particular advantage to the TVSuite version for HD?


Yes, and I have no idea why. When we were first able to start transferring HD content to our PC's I and a number of others were having a lot of issues when we tried to edit them; video running in FF to the audio being garbled to recordings that just would not load in VideoReDo.

Dan from VideoReDo frequents this forum and said back then that they were aware of the problem and were working on it. The result was VideoReDo TVSuite. Since I installed it I haven't had a speck of trouble editing HD content.

Dan (and possibly others) can probably give you some techno speak as to what improvements were made. All I know is that it works. :up:


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## VideoGrabber

Thanks, Rich. I appreciate it.

- Tim


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## leeherman

I was having a lot of problems with failed transfer from my S3 to either of my PCs, and I also had issues with stuttering playback when transferring HD content back to my S3 from a PC.

I received 9.3a a few days ago. Early testing seems to indicate that the problem of failed transfers FROM the S3 is resolved. Oddly enough, even though I had recorded "Walk The Line" months ago and transferred it successfully to my PC while keeping it on my S3, I attempted a re-transfer to my PC after the upgrade. NOW it fails after 3+ gbytes. Other transfers which were failing prior to the 9.3a install transferred without incident.

I also re-transferred ONE program back to the S3 so far. 

I used VideoReDo to compile a few TIVO files of my favorite "American Idol" performances of this season. I transferred the compilation to my S3 prior to the software update and had numerous stutters through the approximately 2hr video. I deleted the file from the S3 and re-transferred following the update and now I'm stutter free!

I'll do a little more testing over the weekend, but it looks like 9.3a solved the problems that bothered me most about my S3.

Good job Tivo!

LH


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## PrincetonTech

My series 3 just got software update 9.3a. So far I have tried one transfer to PC and it worked for the whole transfer. Previous to this, that particular program would always fail at about 69 percent. It looks like they solved the problem. I will continue to report on my progress.


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## ccrider2

I received the 9.3a update 2 days ago. I was able to transfer 6 programs that always failed. Hopefully all transfer problems are no more.

:up: TiVo...took ya a year.....but thanks!

Chris


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