# It's Official, S1, 2 & 3's are a DEAD Product!



## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I just got this email after I called TiVo to ask why I was still being charged for the OTA that I cancelled back on 9/21:



> Dear David
> 
> This email is in response to your request to end service on your TiVo device with TSN: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. This service cancellation will be effective on 2015-Oct-23.
> 
> ...


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Glad I sold my S3's!

I am sure the lifetime tivos will continue to work.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I guess I should put all those old S2 and S3 units I have sitting in my closet in the trash.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> I guess I should put all those old S2 and S3 units I have sitting in my closet in the trash.


Drop them off at a BestBuy or your nearest electronics recycling center to be recycled.


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## Jrr6415sun (Mar 31, 2006)

I'm still wondering if they will allow me to transfer a friend's series 2 lifetime tivo to my account, or if the system won't let them because it's discontinued


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Jrr6415sun said:


> I'm still wondering if they will allow me to transfer a friend's series 2 lifetime tivo to my account, or if the system won't let them because it's discontinued


If it already has lifetime on it, then it will probably work.


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## zaucha (Apr 26, 2003)

Yes, Tivos with lifetime will continue to work and can be transferred. 
Found this info on the Tivo website.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Just added asking Ira in the AMA post about this. 

Scott


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

this document covers Tivo's new policies, no need for speculation: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Payment-Plans-and-Policies/p


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

atmuscarella said:


> this document covers Tivo's new policies, no need for speculation: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Payment-Plans-and-Policies/p


As usual even such legalese is subject to interpretation. In particular, consider the issue of what happens to S3's currently on monthly or annual plans. The wording is "Once the existing plan *expires*". If you reach the end of the year on an annual plan, does it *expire*? Or does your plan continue as long as you continue to make the periodic payments?

I don't understand TiVo's motivation if they actually are preventing continuation of monthly or annual plans on S3's. They're cutting off a significant revenue stream. What is their significant gain in return?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

dlfl said:


> As usual even such legalese is subject to interpretation. In particular, consider the issue of what happens to S3's currently on monthly or annual plans. The wording is "Once the existing plan *expires*". If you reach the end of the year on an annual plan, does it *expire*? Or does your plan continue as long as you continue to make the periodic payments?
> 
> I don't understand TiVo's motivation if they actually are preventing continuation of monthly or annual plans on S3's. They're cutting off a significant revenue stream. What is their significant gain in return?


Yes I agree one could have questions about on going monthly/annual plans if you isolate parts of it. Put when you read the whole thing it is pretty clear:


> ...Once the existing plan expires on these DVRs, reactivation will not be possible...


With monthly or annual subs they "continue" there is no "reactivation" involved every month/year. But the key point is clear Tivo is moving on and Series 1-3 TiVos are dead products with no future support coming from TiVo.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dlfl said:


> I don't understand TiVo's motivation if they actually are preventing continuation of monthly or annual plans on S3's. They're cutting off a significant revenue stream. What is their significant gain in return?


They aren't cutting off revenue, as any device that is actively subscribed will continue on indefinitely. TiVo just wants to push people into buying newer hardware rather than buying an old TiVo off ebay or digging it out of the closet and reactivating it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> They aren't cutting off revenue, as any device that is actively subscribed will continue on indefinitely. TiVo just wants to push people into buying newer hardware rather than buying an old TiVo off ebay or digging it out of the closet and reactivating it.


Exactly


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> They aren't cutting off revenue, as any device that is actively subscribed will continue on indefinitely. TiVo just wants to push people into buying newer hardware rather than buying an old TiVo off ebay or digging it out of the closet and reactivating it.


Yeah but there is probably a legacy support issue driving this.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Right, no real expectation of future revenue from these boxes and a ongoing reduction of support costs.

I'm surprised it took this long for the S2s and earlier (and dial up service at all). With Comcast messing with the S3s, seems the perfect opportunity.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

zaucha said:


> Yes, Tivos with lifetime will continue to work and can be transferred.


So, person A replaces his lifetimed series 3 with a newer model, calls Tivo and says "take the series 3 off my account" without getting a transfer case # from the Tivo CSR (a helpful CSR will offer the # on his own but this does not always happen).

A then puts the series 3 in the closet for awhile then gives it to person B. A & B then try to coordinate a transfer of the lifetimed series 3 to B (i.e. A calling Tivo to get a transfer case # for the deactivated series 3 and giving that # to B, who can then use that # activate the series 3 on his (B's) account). Will this process, which has always worked in the past, still work now? Or will the fact the series 3 has been taken off the account (without a transfer case # being assigned at that time) prevent it from being re-activated on B's account?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Wil said:


> So, person A replaces his lifetimed series 3 with a newer model, calls Tivo and says "take the series 3 off my account"


Why would anyone do this?


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Why would anyone do this?


They do. All the time. I've been involved in a load of Tivo transfers over the years and I'd say it happens 10-15% of the time. I don't understand it myself but they simply don't like having the old Tivos on their account lists and will even argue with the CSR to get it taken off. A smart & helpful rep will give them a transfer case #, but as I said that does not always happen.

It has never been a problem in the past getting the new owner up.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Wil said:


> They do. All the time. I've been involved in a load of Tivo transfers over the years and I'd say it happens 10-15% of the time. I don't understand it myself but they simply don't like having the old Tivos on their account lists and will even argue with the CSR to get it taken off. A smart & helpful rep will give them a transfer case #, but as I said that does not always happen.


Well if they run into problems for doing something stupid, I can't really say that I have much sympathy for them.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Wil said:


> They do. All the time. I've been involved in a load of Tivo transfers over the years and I'd say it happens 10-15% of the time. I don't understand it myself but they simply don't like having the old Tivos on their account lists and will even argue with the CSR to get it taken off. A smart & helpful rep will give them a transfer case #, but as I said that does not always happen.
> 
> It has never been a problem in the past getting the new owner up.


I have sold TiVos that the new owner does not xfer, after a few years I do call TiVo to get that unit off my active account.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

lessd said:


> I have sold TiVos that the new owner does not xfer, after a few years I do call TiVo to get that unit off my active account.


I know, I know. I am so inarticulate.

Yes I know this has never been a problem.

My question is does anybody know whether it's a problem NOW with the new "no activation" policy for s3's? The best the CSR I talked to could do was "we'll have to try it and see what happens."

I'd prefer not to pay for a lifetimed s3 and then find out the original owner took it off his account and NOW with the change in policy I can't reactivate it.

Sorry for being so unclear in my original question, way back there:



> So, person A replaces his lifetimed series 3 with a newer model, calls Tivo and says "take the series 3 off my account" without getting a transfer case # from the Tivo CSR (a helpful CSR will offer the # on his own but this does not always happen).
> 
> A then puts the series 3 in the closet for awhile then gives it to person B. A & B then try to coordinate a transfer of the lifetimed series 3 to B (i.e. A calling Tivo to get a transfer case # for the deactivated series 3 and giving that # to B, who can then use that # activate the series 3 on his (B's) account). Will this process, which has always worked in the past, still work now? Or will the fact the series 3 has been taken off the account (without a transfer case # being assigned at that time) prevent it from being re-activated on B's account?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Wil said:


> I know, I know. I am so inarticulate.
> 
> Yes I know this has never been a problem.
> 
> ...


You can't reactivate any monthly or yearly plan on any Series 1,2 or Series 3. If the unit has Lifetime already no problem as it be xfered anytime for the life of the unit.


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

Here is the post and what Ira said:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10651200#post10651200


> ...we are beginning to limit certain support functions for S1 - S3. For example, under some circumstances we will not re-activate these boxes for new subscribers. Specifically, if a box is on a monthly plan, AND the account gets cancelled, we will not re-activate it. PLS boxes are exempt of course. And yes, we will transfer account ownership on these. Just give us a call.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I'm assuming these older units have a high rate of failure and generate too many support calls.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

What I find most infuriating is the lack of notice. I don't blame them for wanting to stop supporting these old boxes, but to pick a day and not notify anybody before hand is outrageous.

The example I would use is Microsoft lists end of support dates for its products. These usually have long lead times so users can plan. I don't suggest that TiVo lists end of support dates years into the future, but I think 6 months is fair for people to plan.

I had an inactive TiVoHD in my closet that I was going to use for another purpose. Yes, I dragged my feet on getting around to activate it, but if given a little notice I would have made sure to take care of it. Now I have a brick or door stop.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

waynomo said:


> What I find most infuriating is the lack of notice. I don't blame them for wanting to stop supporting these old boxes, but to pick a day and not notify anybody before hand is outrageous.
> 
> The example I would use is Microsoft lists end of support dates for its products. These usually have long lead times so users can plan. I don't suggest that TiVo lists end of support dates years into the future, but I think 6 months is fair for people to plan.
> 
> I had an inactive TiVoHD in my closet that I was going to use for another purpose. Yes, I dragged my feet on getting around to activate it, but if given a little notice I would have made sure to take care of it. Now I have a brick or door stop.


I completely agree with you that TiVo should have given notice that this was coming.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> I'm assuming these older units have a high rate of failure and generate too many support calls.


Broken TiVos are a chance to sell a new TiVo. I'm not sure the higher failure rate of older boxes is a negative. My older boxes have been rock solid, so I'm not sure the failure rate is that much higher for the older boxes.

Also, it depends what type of support calls you are talking about. I would think newer boxes would need more general support. Once a box is up and running they probably don't need a lot of support.

My guess this is purely a tactic to generate more sales by pushing customers/users to newer boxes. I can't blame them for wanting to do this. However, I can be upset at how they went about doing it.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)




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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I completely agree with you that TiVo should have given notice that this was coming.


And what action would have taken, started monthly on a old TiVo, or purchase Lifetime on the old TiVo. TiVo will support any old box that is now active, they just will not activate any old TiVo, I can't believe that is going to much of a problem for most people.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lessd said:


> And what action would have taken, started monthly on a old TiVo, or purchase Lifetime on the old TiVo. TiVo will support any old box that is now active, they just will not activate any old TiVo, I can't believe that is going to much of a problem for most people.


Well think about it, if you had an old TiVo HD in the closet that was unactivated and you heard that they were going to do this then you could have theoretically taken it out and called TiVo before the dropdead date and said you wanted to reactivate it and they most likely would have offered you the $99 lifetime service which would then make that TiVo useful until it died.

As it stands now that TiVo is a doorstop just as waynomo is saying.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

HarperVision said:


> Well think about it, if you had an old TiVo HD in the closet that was unactivated and you heard that they were going to do this then you could have theoretically taken it out and called TiVo before the dropdead date and said you wanted to reactivate it and they most likely would have offered you the $99 lifetime service which would then make that TiVo useful until it died.
> 
> As it stands now that TiVo is a doorstop just as waynomo is saying.


Has anybody tried to activate (by calling TiVo) a old TiVo-HD for the $99 and been refused ?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lessd said:


> Has anybody tried to activate (by calling TiVo) a old TiVo-HD for the $99 and been refused ?


Yes. Today. I spoke to 3 different people. The last person I spoke to was a supervisor. She was extremely nice. She understood and was going to see if there was anything she could do. (I'm not expecting anything.) This decision was a couple of levels above her. She said she would get back to me on Monday.

I was surprised no one tried to get me to buy a bolt.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Folks are searching for rare scenarios to find a way to be offended with this ($99 lifetime was never a true program, for example). I think it is totally reasonable, even without prior notice. I'm sure very very very small amounts of these older boxes are transferred between owners that are not lifetime boxes. Unless given for free, premieres are about the same price (20-25 on CL) and are superior (now that they have haxe).


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lessd said:


> And what action would have taken, started monthly on a old TiVo, or purchase Lifetime on the old TiVo. TiVo will support any old box that is now active, they just will not activate any old TiVo, I can't believe that is going to much of a problem for most people.


The real problem I see is that some unsuspecting people who don't know about this abrupt change in policy will buy a used TiVo and then try to activate it, only to be told that they just wasted their money on a DVR that they will never be able to use. I suppose TiVo could then use that opportunity to try to sell them a new Bolt, but the person will still probably be upset they just wasted their money.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> The real problem I see is that some unsuspecting people who don't know about this abrupt change in policy will buy a used TiVo and then try to activate it, only to be told that they just wasted their money on a DVR that they will never be able to use. I suppose TiVo could then use that opportunity to try to sell them a new Bolt, but the person will still probably be upset they just wasted their money.


I don't think many people would purchase a non activated TiVo-HD and think it a good deal to then spend (under the old plan) another $400 on Lifetime, if one purchased a non activated TiVo-HD from E-Bay they could get their money back as the TiVo-HD can't be used and unless the seller said as much it would be no problem.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lessd said:


> I don't think many people would purchase a non activated TiVo-HD and think it a good deal to then spend (under the old plan) another $400 on Lifetime, if one purchased a non activated TiVo-HD from E-Bay they could get their money back as the TiVo-HD can't be used and unless the seller said as much it would be no problem.


There are still plenty of unactivated Series 1s, 2s, and 3s for sale at places like ebay, Craigslist, Amazon, thrift stores, garage sales, etc. Some people will inevitably still buy them and try to activate them, and will be very disappointed when they do.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

tarheelblue32 said:


> There are still plenty of unactivated Series 1s, 2s, and 3s for sale at places like ebay, Craigslist, Amazon, thrift stores, garage sales, etc. Some people will inevitably still buy them and try to activate them, and will be very disappointed when they do.


Are you suggesting that TiVo should be spending resources to protect these people from their own foolishness? Myself, I think that it would be a very cheap life-lesson for those people.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

ej42137 said:


> Are you suggesting that TiVo should be spending resources to protect these people from their own foolishness? Myself, I think that it would be a very cheap life-lesson for those people.


No, but as I said TiVo should have had some kind of notice before this change, when their policy since they have been in existence as a company has been that you can activate old units. How about just them putting up some kind of notice on their website saying that in 90 days, these old units will no longer be able to be activated with service. That doesn't seem too burdensome to me. They should also have notified places like Amazon about this change so that Amazon could put some kind warning about this change on the sales pages of these outdated units.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> . . . to protect these people from their own foolishness? . . .


Excuse me? How is buying one of these foolish a month ago, or 6 months ago; or the case where you bought it 7 years ago and deactivated it and then decided you want to use it again foolish?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Interesting that Amazon still has new series 3s for sale.

http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-TCD65216...e=UTF8&qid=1443932325&sr=1-1&keywords=tivo+hd


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

waynomo said:


> Interesting that Amazon still has new series 3s for sale.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-TCD65216...e=UTF8&qid=1443932325&sr=1-1&keywords=tivo+hd


They are all from 3rd-party sellers, though some are "fulfilled by Amazon". Amazon also has 3rd-party sellers still selling "new" Series 2s without service.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

waynomo said:


> Interesting that Amazon still has new series 3s for sale.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/TiVo-TCD65216...e=UTF8&qid=1443932325&sr=1-1&keywords=tivo+hd





tarheelblue32 said:


> They are all from 3rd-party sellers, though some are "fulfilled by Amazon". Amazon also has 3rd-party sellers still selling "new" Series 2s without service.


I don't see Amazon selling any new ones, but I do see some used ones listed that Amazon is selling with their "Warehouse Deals".


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I don't see Amazon selling any new ones, but I do see some used ones listed that Amazon is selling with their "Warehouse Deals".


New ones are listed here. Although I suspect they will be taken down pretty soon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000RZDBM2/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

I have a TiVo HD with Lifetime Service.
Can I transfer that service to a new TiVo, a Bolt or Roamio or even transfer it to my current Roamio Pro?

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


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## karpodiem (Mar 18, 2008)

I have seven active TiVo HD's model 652160 - four on lifetime, three on subscription. I was stockpiling, because I knew this day would eventually come. I'm hoping to get the three remaining that are on subscription over to lifetime. 

Curious if retention will play the $99 for lifetime game, or now that Series 3 aren't supported, they will be like 'go for it' if I make overtures to cancel. In any case, I'm paying $27 a month in case one of my existing boxes goes down. $600 is steep, but the Series 3 are special in ways a few of you on this forum understand


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

karpodiem said:


> the Series 3 are special in ways a few of you on this forum understand


Unless you're talking about the mythical (as far as I can discover) mpeg4 reception hack, these special ways are diminishing in utility. Turning off the cci flag and transferring lifetime easily from unit to unit (with the original series 3's) don't mean much without the ability to receive programming in the first place.


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## karpodiem (Mar 18, 2008)

Wil said:


> Unless you're talking about the mythical (as far as I can discover) mpeg4 reception hack, these special ways are diminishing in utility. Turning off the cci flag and transferring lifetime easily from unit to unit (with the original series 3's) don't mean much without the ability to receive programming in the first place.


They're all activated through TiVo's service, four on lifetime, three on monthly. The three on monthly are sitting on a shelf. Four are actively tuning in programming. If one of the four dies, one comes off the shelf to replace it, and maybe I'll switch it to lifetime.

I live in a Midwest market where Comcast was fortunately not able to divest through their failed merger, so they are stuck with us, and I doubt this market is very profitable for them because it's very price sensitive. I don't see them upgrading this market to MPEG-4 for at least 5-7 years, if not longer.


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## Fernwood (Sep 11, 2014)

Joe01880 said:


> I have a TiVo HD with Lifetime Service.
> Can I transfer that service to a new TiVo, a Bolt or Roamio or even transfer it to my current Roamio Pro?
> 
> Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


No


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> No, but as I said TiVo should have had some kind of notice before this change, when their policy since they have been in existence as a company has been that you can activate old units. How about just them putting up some kind of notice on their website saying that in 90 days, these old units will no longer be able to be activated with service. That doesn't seem too burdensome to me. They should also have notified places like Amazon about this change so that Amazon could put some kind warning about this change on the sales pages of these outdated units.


And who beside a current TiVo owner would get such a notice, and that would only happen if the TiVo account E-Mail was up to date, many are not. Such a notice would not have help the general public. All the sellers of these new dead products will have to give the money back if anybody does purchase one before the seller finds out that what he is selling can't be activated and takes the TiVo off the market.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lessd said:


> And who beside a current TiVo owner would get such a notice, and that would only happen if the TiVo account E-Mail was up to date, many are not. Such a notice would not have help the general public. All the sellers of these new dead products will have to give the money back if anybody does purchase one before the seller finds out that what he is selling can't be activated and takes the TiVo off the market.


And who besides a current Microsoft customer user gets notices that Microsoft is ending support for one of their products?

Are you arguing the point that it was acceptable for TiVo to not give any notice and terminate the usability of a product?


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lessd said:


> And who beside a current TiVo owner would get such a notice, and that would only happen if the TiVo account E-Mail was up to date, many are not. Such a notice would not have help the general public. All the sellers of these new dead products will have to give the money back if anybody does purchase one before the seller finds out that what he is selling can't be activated and takes the TiVo off the market.


I am a current TiVo user. (6 active units) My email address is active. Forget getting notice sometime before the policy was enacted. I didn't even get notice on the day or anytime there after.

And don't forget that this is a big departure for TiVo from the past policies of 15 years. I don't blame them for doing it. It is the way they did it.

It would be another thing if 4 years ago TiVo decided to no longer activate Series 1 TiVos and then 2 years ago ended support for Series 2 TiVos. Then it would be reasonable to expect TiVo to end support for Series 3 TiVos. To end support for 3 different series that represents 9 years of TiVo products in one fell swoop is mind blowing to me.


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## tvmaster2 (Sep 9, 2006)

We have two Series 2's with Lifetime. What's the best way to proceed with TiVo in hopes they'd transfer those Lifetime contracts to new hardware....any suggestions? Or will it be a waste of phone time ....


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

tvmaster2 said:


> We have two Series 2's with Lifetime. What's the best way to proceed with TiVo in hopes they'd transfer those Lifetime contracts to new hardware....any suggestions? Or will it be a waste of phone time ....


Waste of time. They won't transfer the lifetime. Your best option is to call and take advantage of the current $99 lifetime deal on a new Roamio Plus or Pro.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Waste of time. They won't transfer the lifetime. Your best option is to call and take advantage of the current $99 lifetime deal on a new Roamio Plus or Pro.


What is the the $99 lifetime deal? I currently have a Series 3 with Lifetime (that I transferred the Lifetime from my Series 1 for $199 as I recall back in late 2006/early 2007).


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

George Cifranci said:


> What is the the $99 lifetime deal? I currently have a Series 3 with Lifetime (that I transferred the Lifetime from my Series 1 for $199 as I recall back in late 2006/early 2007).


Details are here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=532395

But basically you can get a base Roamio with lifetime for $400, a Roamio Plus with lifetime for $450, or a Roamio Pro with lifetime for $600.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

waynomo said:


> And who besides a current Microsoft customer user gets notices that Microsoft is ending support for one of their products?
> 
> Are you arguing the point that it was acceptable for TiVo to not give any notice and terminate the usability of a product?


I think the TiVo should have given notice but what difference does it make if they did or did not, current activated Series 1,2, and 3 TiVos will still work as they did, you will still get guide updates. In the case of Microsoft your old software (like XP) will no longer be supported, big difference, as it gives you time to upgrade your software, if your series 3 TiVo is working just great for you, nothing happened that will change that. The value of a Series 1,2, or 3 TiVo that does not have activation is almost $0, if you had gotten notice who would have spent $399 to active an old Series 1,2, or 3 they had in a closet.


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

lessd said:


> if you had gotten notice who would have spent $399 to active an old Series 1,2, or 3 they had in a closet.


Of course for most people lifetime activation for the series 3 (or HD) would only have been $99. I have several affected ones for which I hadn't yet purchased lifetime because the lifetimed units themselves are now going for well under $99, but it is annoying I have had the option taken away without notice.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

shwru980r said:


> I'm assuming these older units have a high rate of failure and generate too many support calls.


I have not experienced that on my TiVoHD. But perhaps we should separate out easily user-fixable issues and those that involve a little more effort.

Yes, I've had a HD fail, but that's not really the box per se. I've upgraded HDDs a few times and each time checked on the capacitors, and all is swell.

Plus, we have just lifeline cable for the locals, which will not be part of the mpeg conversion.

So for us, unless I have a catastrophic total failure, we'll keep your TiVoHD going as long as possible.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

$99 lifetime for older boxes was not an "official" program. That could have been yanked at any time, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Wil said:


> Of course for most people lifetime activation for the series 3 (or HD) would only have been $99. I have several affected ones for which I hadn't yet purchased lifetime because the lifetimed units themselves are now going for well under $99, but it is annoying I have had the option taken away without notice.


I would guess your in the minority, but you could call TiVo and tell your story and with the correct CSR they may still give you lifetime on your Series 3 for the $99, you just can't do Lifetime (All-in) on-line anymore for $399, who would want to do that anyway.


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## JayBird (Jan 26, 2003)

Ok, I'm sitting on 5 older TiVos in storage that it's time to unload:

The first is my original Series 1 Sony TiVo that is currently inactive. Upgraded with the network card and dual 120 GB drives (a big deal in it's day!). Given that reactivations are no longer allowed, I'm assuming this is now nothing more than a paperweight, and should be donated to the nearest electronics recycling center. I actually think I have a couple extra spare remotes for it still in the package somewhere too.

The other 4 are various versions of 80-hour TiVo-branded Series 2 models, at least on of which has an upgraded drive. All of these have PLS, but have not connected to TiVo in at least a year. I also have a couple Wi-Fi adapters to go with them, but I might be missing a remote or two, and I know I don't have all the cables.

I've been holding onto these old series 2 units in case there was ever a PLS upgrade/transfer deal on new hardware, but it looks like in lieu of that they are simply offering the current $99 PLS deal on Roamios, and with the new pricing scheme for "All In", I just don't see a PLS upgrade/transfer deal from old Series 2 TiVos in the foreseeable future.

Given that units with PLS _*can *_still be transferred to new owners, I'm assuming that these Series 2 models still have some, albeit minimal, resale value. Anybody know what they might be worth at this point? Any interested parties in the Phoenix area that might want to make me a deal for the lot of them and come pick them up?

- Jay


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

JayBird said:


> Given that units with PLS _*can *_still be transferred to new owners, I'm assuming that these Series 2 models still have some, albeit minimal, resale value. Anybody know what they might be worth at this point?


You may be able to get around $50 for them if you're lucky. You can check ebay prices on them to see about what they go for.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

JayBird said:


> Ok, I'm sitting on 5 older TiVos in storage that it's time to unload:
> 
> The first is my original Series 1 Sony TiVo that is currently inactive. Upgraded with the network card and dual 120 GB drives (a big deal in it's day!). *Given that reactivations are no longer allowed, I'm assuming this is now nothing more than a paperweight, and should be donated to the nearest electronics recycling center.* I actually think I have a couple extra spare remotes for it still in the package somewhere too.
> 
> ...


No, they aren't "paperweights" unless they are broken? All it says is that "reactivations" aren't allowed once it's cancelled, but you haven't cancelled anything since they're still Lifetime. If they were month to month or annual when you stored them, then yes they most likely would be dead products. I guess maybe they're considered "deactivated" if it hasn't called in for awhile. You said in storage "at least a year", but not sure I remember what the time since last connect is with TiVo? Do they still show up in your online TiVo acccount?

Ira said that transfers are allowed IIRC, so you should be able to sell them. you never know, they may actually be worth MORE now since a lot of other series 1-3 TiVos will be rendered kaput soon, if not already. You know, supply and demand and all, if there IS still enough of a demand that is! If not, maybe there will be in the near future.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

HarperVision said:


> No, they aren't "paperweights" unless they are broken? All it says is that "reactivations" aren't allowed once it's cancelled, but you haven't cancelled anything since they're still Lifetime. If they were month to month or annual when you stored them, then yes they most likely would be dead products. I guess maybe they're considered "deactivated" if it hasn't called in for awhile. You said in storage "at least a year", but not sure I remember what the time since last connect is with TiVo? Do they still show up in your online TiVo acccount?
> 
> Ira said that transfers are allowed IIRC, so you should be able to sell them. you never know, they may actually be worth MORE now since a lot of other series 1-3 TiVos will be rendered kaput soon, if not already. You know, supply and demand and all, if there IS still enough of a demand that is! If not, maybe there will be in the near future.


Series 2 with PLS will have more value with the IR cable as a low cost way to record SD using a standard cable box.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

waynomo said:


> Excuse me? How is buying one of these foolish a month ago, or 6 months ago; or the case where you bought it 7 years ago and deactivated it and then decided you want to use it again foolish?


Very foolish to buy such an old product without immediately activating it to verify that it was fully functional. Very foolish to expect a box that has been sitting in your closet for seven years to still be usable. Very foolish to have kept it in your closet for seven years wasting its usable life span. The kind of foolish that buys extended warranties and multi-level marketing.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> Very foolish to buy such an old product without immediately activating it to verify that it was fully functional. Very foolish to expect a box that has been sitting in your closet for seven years to still be usable. Very foolish to have kept it in your closet for seven years wasting its usable life span. The kind of foolish that buys extended warranties and multi-level marketing.


1) I did test the unit I bought almost immediately. I verified all was working. I wasn't ready to activate it that point in time. I got a great deal on it so I'm not out that much money, but the principle still irks me.*

2) The seven year thing was hypothetical. However, I wasn't saying that it sat in a closet for 7 years. Only that it was purchased 7 years ago. Let's say it was deactivated 6 months or a year ago and know I wanted to activate it again. I suppose not buying lifetime could be considered foolish, but that isn't your point.

*Also at the time I purchased 2 units. One I did activate immediately with lifetime for $99 and is working fine. So I was foolish with one and not the other? `I should also state that I know the person who sold me the units so it wasn't like a buyer beware as is type of sale.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

waynomo said:


> Also at the time I purchased 2 units. One I did activate immediately with lifetime for $99 and is working fine. So I was foolish with one and not the other? I should also state that I know the person who sold me the units so it wasn't like a buyer beware as is type of sale.


I'd say that the answer is obviously yes to your question, based on results.

Will your friend now return your money? Would you ask him for it? Would he still be your friend after you did so?

By the way, I thought you were raising a hypothetical. I did not mean to be insulting to you if this is your actual situation. I would have said the same thing, but I would have tried to be more diplomatic about it.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> I'd say that the answer is obviously yes to your question, based on results.
> 
> Will your friend now return your money? Would you ask him for it? Would he still be your friend after you did so?
> 
> By the way, I thought you were raising a hypothetical. I did not mean to be insulting to you if this is your actual situation. I would have said the same thing, but I would have tried to be more diplomatic about it.


I'm not offended. I'm much more in the mode of:












The seven year example was hypothetical. The recent purchases were not. Yes, still my friend (really an acquaintance) but no hard feelings. He didn't know TiVo's policy was going to change. And we aren't talking a lot of money. If worse comes to worse I'll have some spare parts. Also, I feel like I've gotten more than my money's worth out of the first one of the two.

I don't like being results oriented. I think I made the best decisions at the time with the known information. It seems you are basing your opinion on information that was known after the fact. If I had known that TiVo was going to change their policy I absolutely would have activated, etc. sooner. I think if a month ago I presented all the information known at that time to you, you would not have claimed that I was foolish and that my plan made sense.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

WAYNOMO

TiVo now policy has maybe has hurt to some extent a few people like you, but have you called TiVo to see if they would do something for you ??


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

waynomo said:


> Broken TiVos are a chance to sell a new TiVo. I'm not sure the higher failure rate of older boxes is a negative. My older boxes have been rock solid, so I'm not sure the failure rate is that much higher for the older boxes.
> 
> Also, it depends what type of support calls you are talking about. I would think newer boxes would need more general support. Once a box is up and running they probably don't need a lot of support.
> 
> My guess this is purely a tactic to generate more sales by pushing customers/users to newer boxes. I can't blame them for wanting to do this. However, I can be upset at how they went about doing it.


I would think they would get a significant number of calls when Hard drives start going bad or power supplies fail with capacitor issues. Especially if the box doesn't completely fail, but starts behaving abnormally.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lessd said:


> WAYNOMO
> 
> TiVo now policy has maybe has hurt to some extent a few people like you, but have you called TiVo to see if they would do something for you ??


I think ending support for older TiVos makes a lot of sense. I don't object to that. I object to the way they did it especially because it is a big departure from the way they have done business in the past. There should have been ample notice. If 1, 2, 3 or 7 years ago they ended support for Series 1 then this is something that could have been anticipated. But to give no notice is not acceptable.

Yes, I did call TiVo. I spoke to three different people. The last was supervisor who was extremely nice and sympathetic. She said the decision to something was several levels above her. She would investigate and get back to me. She was out sick, but had someone else leave me a message saying she would get back to me when she was back. I will update the thread when I hear back.


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## Joe01880 (Feb 8, 2009)

If you don't like the way TiVo does business the answer is don't do business with TiVo.
I can't see TiVo asking anyone's permission to end older tech product service life now or in the future.

Sent from my LG G4 using Tapatalk


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

I love TiVo. No one said they should ask permission. I also said it makes sense to end support. However, it's customary to give notice before doing so. Most other businesses do that.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

The customer support supervisor called me back and said they will let me activate the TiVo. I gave her the info. She said it might take a bit as she has to give the info to someone else to take care of this. Apparently, it will take a bit of effort to get this done. She explained that they are locking out all the old not activated TiVos from the system.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

waynomo said:


> The customer support supervisor called me back and said they will let me activate the TiVo. I gave her the info. She said it might take a bit as she has to give the info to someone else to take care of this. Apparently, it will take a bit of effort to get this done. She explained that they are locking out all the old not activated TiVos from the system.


 That should good news for non activated Series 3 owners, if you don't use the online TiVo stuff, as I been told (by someone on this Forum) it will not work for the Series 3 anymore.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lessd said:


> That should good news for non activated Series 3 owners, if you don't use the online TiVo stuff, as I been told (by someone on this Forum) it will not work for the Series 3 anymore.


I did tell them that I had recently purchased the TiVo and they used that as the reason to let me activate it.

So if it has been sitting around in a closet for 2 years they may not let you activate it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

waynomo said:


> I did tell them that I had recently purchased the TiVo and they used that as the reason to let me activate it.
> 
> So if it has been sitting around in a closet for 2 years they may not let you activate it.


How would TiVo know the closet it was sitting in, the key here is that TiVo (or a good CSR) let you active it, a so call dead unit. So anybody upset that did not get any notice (and want to active a TiVo-HD) should use your example of how to active.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lessd said:


> How would TiVo know the closet it was sitting in, the key here is that TiVo (or a good CSR) let you active it, a so call dead unit. So anybody upset that did not get any notice (and want to active a TiVo-HD) should use your example of how to active.


I would not expect them to be willing to do this for very long. If there is anyone out there with an inactive Series 3 that they want activated, they had better call soon to attempt this.


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lessd said:


> How would TiVo know the closet it was sitting in


I would guess if you're trying to reactivate a TiVo you already had on your account vs adding it as a new machine.


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## dhoward (Mar 15, 2002)

Is a lifetime series 2, that has not contacted Tivo for over a year, considered deactivated by Tivo even though it still shows on the account?


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dhoward said:


> Is a lifetime series 2, that has not contacted Tivo for over a year, considered deactivated by Tivo even though it still shows on the account?


In some ways yes, but note that the unit having been a lifetime unit means thatit's not covered by the new "we don't activate older units" policy, they've stated that lifetime units are fine, it's monthly and annual units that are affected.


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## LoneWolf15 (Mar 20, 2010)

shwru980r said:


> I'm assuming these older units have a high rate of failure and generate too many support calls.


If they aren't under warranty, there is probably limited hardware support.
The bigger issue is, the processors in these units are much older, and cannot be made to do things that newer processors (Premiere, Roamio, Bolt) can. And of course, as is being shown with Comcast's changes, systems that reliably did MPEG2 previously just don't have the horsepower to do MPEG4. Tivo would like people to be on a unified software platform, so they can deliver the best experience. Right now, S2/S3 owners are kind of like people who own an iPhone 4S --it's still got some support, but it doesn't have the capabilities.

Also, think of the Series 2 --how many people are rocking a Series 2, hooked up to analog RCA video on a television these days? I would hope these people are looking at new solutions. I got a used Lifetime one for someone probably back in 2008 or 2009, and the interface was dated then, plus I had to add Wifi, because downloading guide info over a phone line took ages (no wired Ethernet). We've since replaced the box, it's outmoded.

Tivo has made clear (Ira's posts indicate it) that they would love to give Series 3 owners deals on new hardware. While I think the S3 was a great unit, and still is useful, all of this electronic gear is like a computer --it doesn't last forever. I work in IT, I'm working hard to get some of our budget-minded clients off of circa 2008-09 hardware for the same reasons. The Series 3 was unveiled for the first time in 2006. Anyone using one now got probably 7-8 years of life out of that piece of hardware, which is pretty darn good. It's actually pretty awesome that people only got your money's worth, but that Tivo wants to give them a discount on moving to a new one --Dell doesn't do that with computers, Apple doesn't do it with iPhones.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

> *It's Official, S1, 2 & 3's are a DEAD Product! *


This STILL annoys me, they are NOT "dead" they are in a more mature phase of their lifecycle.
My Lifetime OLED S3 still works, still gets guide data, still will let me transfer things off of it, and still performs the same DVR functions it did when I got it.
it's not "dead" in any significant way that matter to ME... obviously YMMV and it's damn impressive for a piece of 9 year old technology.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> This STILL annoys me, they are NOT "dead" they are in a more mature phase of their lifecycle.
> My Lifetime OLED S3 still works, still gets guide data, still will let me transfer things off of it, and still performs the same DVR functions it did when I got it.
> it's not "dead" in any significant way that matter to ME... obviously YMMV and it's damn impressive for a piece of 9 year old technology.


+1 x 2!

But I will still probably go ahead and take advantage of the loyalty deal due to Comcast's MPEG4 transition and the higher cost of the All-in plan.

Scott


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## Wil (Sep 27, 2002)

LoneWolf15 said:


> systems that reliably did MPEG2 previously just don't have the horsepower to do MPEG4.


Mpeg4 on the series3 and HD is not a horsepower issue.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dianebrat said:


> This STILL annoys me, they are NOT "dead" they are in a more mature phase of their lifecycle. My Lifetime OLED S3 still works, still gets guide data, still will let me transfer things off of it, and still performs the same DVR functions it did when I got it. it's not "dead" in any significant way that matter to ME... obviously YMMV and it's damn impressive for a piece of 9 year old technology.


Yeah you're probably right. How about they're a "Walking Dead" product?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wil said:


> Mpeg4 on the series3 and HD is not a horsepower issue.


In fact, the Series 3 can actually play h.264 video -- it's just limited to streaming, and TiVoCast/Push-type transfers of MP4s, and not cable TV. But the Australia/NZ version of the TiVo HD _does_ handle h.264 cable channels. So this looks like a software limitation.


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## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

Most of my active Tivos are lifetime except for two: a single-tuner Series 2 and an HD. The Series 2 isn't currently hooked up, and the hard drive was going last time I checked, but still has the service active - I probably should call and cancel the subscription on that one. The HD is still connected and used to a certain extent. I'm guessing TiVo probably won't give me the chance to switch it to lifetime at this point (still paying monthly/MSD), even having used their devices and service for 11 1/2 years now.

Lesson learned: Lifetime service is a good thing (although I'm not sure if it is $599 good).


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Lenonn said:


> Most of my active Tivos are lifetime except for two: a single-tuner Series 2 and an HD. The Series 2 isn't currently hooked up, and the hard drive was going last time I checked, but still has the service active - I probably should call and cancel the subscription on that one. The HD is still connected and used to a certain extent. I'm guessing TiVo probably won't give me the chance to switch it to lifetime at this point (still paying monthly/MSD), even having used their devices and service for 11 1/2 years now.
> 
> Lesson learned: Lifetime service is a good thing (although I'm not sure if it is $599 good).


It certainly will be if your Bolt lasts for 11½ years.


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## btollefson (Feb 24, 2005)

I spoke to a phone TiVo rep about 2 months ago concerning re-activating my TiVo HD XL that I had replaced with my 2nd TiVo Roamio. The TiVo HD XL was in storage about 10 months. I still have another TiVo HD that is still active.The rep told me that this would be no problem & never mentioned the upcoming change in policy concerning re-activation of the Series 1,2, and 3 boxes. Now, after waiting a month for a cable card & driving 40 miles to pick it up for use at a 2nd remote home, I find I can't re-activate that TiVo XL. After more than 10 years as a TiVo customer using 9 different TiVo boxes, I'm extremely upset TiVo gave me no notification of this policy change. If I had known, I would have re-activated before the deadline even months before I could install it. A TiVo customer service superviser said there was nothing they do to help me. With this type of customer service & insensitivity to the ramifications to current customers for this type of policy change with no advance notice, I think I've bought my last TiVo.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

FWIW, I've read reports of others getting them to reactivate under special circumstances. I would keep playing CSR roulette.


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