# TiVo Fast Forward Banner Ads Return



## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

http://techdirt.com/articles/20070116/095723.shtml



> TiVo has long been trying to derail Hollywood efforts to have DVR fast-forwarding banned by reaching some kind of middle ground. A few years back, "lucky" TiVo customers were automatically selected by the company (whether they liked it or not) to take part in a new trial of technology that bombarded them with additional ads if they tried to fast forward through commercials. Only viewable by test participants, the ads were usually random banner ads for TiVo partners. After a brief hiatus the fast forward banner ads have apparently returned, this time designed so you'll see an ad for the company whose commercial you were trying to avoid in the first place. Since many TiVo users pay monthly subscriptions on top of pricey hardware costs largely to avoid ads, it's akin to having to watch a Coke TV commercial in a movie theater after shelling out ten bucks for a feature film. If that annoys you, these ads probably will too. As previously mentioned, broadcasters complain over ample "lost" revenue from ad skipping -- revenue they'd regain if advertisers and DVR manufacturers were more innovative and less annoying. While TiVo has tinkered with some user interactive advertising -- having users press a "thumbs up" button for more product info barely qualifies as a creative solution. A better solution is offering interesting advertising users don't want to skip in the first place.


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 12, 2006)

I read that article too. I would be very upset if I start to see Tivo ads when I try to fast forward through commercials.


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## chrishicks (Dec 31, 2003)

they should just move to using the products in the shows that everyone watches and just get rid of commercials. I mean really, would anyone really care if some actor is drinking a can of Pepsi instead of a can of "soda"?


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

I don't know if it's that bad. 

If I still get back to the show in the same amount of time, what difference does it make if there's a still-frame version of the ad overlaid over the one that's racing by in the background? It's still gone in less time.

I still end up watching more show in less time.

I aggree that having less commercials to begin with would be better, but I also don't want to have to pay for the TV I watch... It's all a balancign act.

-Kyle


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

This is why we have TSS...


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

But will the ads interfere from knowing when the show starts again?


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## kjmcdonald (Sep 8, 2003)

JimSpence said:


> But will the ads interfere from knowing when the show starts again?


I haven't seen it, but I doubt it. 'Banner' kind of implies something across the top of the screen.

If displaying these banner ads would actually allow Tivo to automatically stop FF'ing at the end of the commercials, Then I'd trade looking at the banners for that feature in a heartbeat!

Or instead of re-enabling the 30second skip button, give us a commercial skip function, where I press it once and skip over *all the commecials* and for every 30second of commercial, instead we see 2 or 3sec of a banner?

The key is that we always end up back in the show without missing anything or having to FF more.

-Kyle


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## indyrobb (Feb 9, 2005)

Link with pictures of what to expect
http://surmise.blogspot.com/2007/01/tivos-fast-forward-ads-are-back_15.html

Original Link
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/15/already-sexy-tivo-brings-fast-forward-ads-back/

Edit: updated the links


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

I really cannot understand why this feature induces such intense indignation and rage from some people.  Instead of seeing something silently zipping along at the fast-forward rate, one instead sees a silent static image for the same product for the same interval, with the option to click if one actually wants to see an extended ad for that product. Or if not fast-forwarding, you see a small "banner" that says you can click for the extended ad. Or one just 30-second-skips past the whole thing. It doesn't effect how fast you get past the ad, and doesn't require any action to ignore it. The extended ad is recorded late at night from an "infomercial" and stored in a reserved area, so you are not "paying" for downloading it or using up space that otherwise you can use for your recordings. 

So why go ballistic over it?


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

people seem to just freak out when they hear "Ads"

I'm OK with ads - they pay for stuff so I don't have to. 

TiVo can do whatever they want with ads as long as they're not "in the way" of any functionality or features. If I'm fastforwarding, and an ad or something is there, as long as it goes away in time - just like the commercials I'm skipping - and I dont' miss any of my show, I'm OK

and if TiVo gets some revenue, then awesome


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Although I oppose ads within TiVo menus (such as showcases) or in guides (not yet for TiVo (if ever), but DirecTV is coming out with them for their in-house DVRs) because they would change how I interact with the interface, fast-forward ads wouldn't bug me in the least. I would simply ignore the on-screen ad just like the commercials whizzing by underneath it, and resume playing when the commercial block ends.

In fact, having banner ads on screen for an entire commercial block could be a good thing, for it could be even easier to know when to hit play again - as soon as the banner disappears (the end of the commercial block!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

chrishicks said:


> they should just move to using the products in the shows that everyone watches and just get rid of commercials. I mean really, would anyone really care if some actor is drinking a can of Pepsi instead of a can of "soda"?


Have you watched Late Show with Letterman recently? He usually does one "live" commercial endorsement per show, and sometimes I find them funny as hell. The funnier ones are usually for food products, as he'll hold up the item, take a bite, make a face like he just tasted poop, and then recover, point to the box, and proclaim the product's glories. If I was an advertiser I might be pissed, but as a viewer who skips ads, I don't mind endorsements such as this because I can laugh with the host...


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Although I oppose ads within TiVo menus (such as showcases) or in guides (not yet for TiVo (if ever), but DirecTV is coming out with them for their in-house DVRs)


Well, I don't know if a screenshot for a yet to be released feature counts as "coming out" with ads on the guide. I think you're referring to the line in the guide for VOD service. Other than being relevant to the DTV product, we couldn't learn anything more about it.

Just a small point. It's funny that people (I don't mean you specifically Drew), will see a CES screenshot and say that it's "coming out", yet at the same show hear that there will be 100 new HD channels and call that vaporware. Seems it's one way or the other.

About these ads, even *I* wouldn't be bothered by that (assuming it didn't affect my FFing). Replaces a blur with a non blur.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

drew2k said:


> Have you watched Late Show with Letterman recently? He usually does one "live" commercial endorsement per show, and sometimes I find them funny as hell. The funnier ones are usually for food products, as he'll hold up the item, take a bite, make a face like he just tasted poop, and then recover, point to the box, and proclaim the product's glories. If I was an advertiser I might be pissed, but as a viewer who skips ads, I don't mind endorsements such as this because I can laugh with the host...


As long as it's done in moderation and doesn't take over the show -- or can be worked into the show effectively. I saw an episode of 30 Rock, where they were talking about putting ads in the show, and then used that to lead into an ad in the show for Sprite or something....

As long as TV doesn't turn into the "Mattel and Mars Bar Quick-Energy Choc-o-bot Hour" we'll be fine


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

TydalForce said:


> As long as TV doesn't turn into the "Mattel and Mars Bar Quick-Energy Choc-o-bot Hour" we'll be fine


You mean like they were in the 50s?


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

LOL

I don't think that can compare... TV was way more novelty in the 50s. Today, we can't live without it!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

this debate is old around here. many distinct viewpoints on it but it always becomes clear that you do not chnage how you use the DVR in any way and all that happens is instead of a fast scrolling montage of images you will see a static image instead and only while the actual commercial is on the screen and only for advertisers that paid TiVo to store the static image on the TiVo partition of the hard drive adn then added the signals to the broadcast stream to trigger the static image to appear while the commercial is up and you FFed it.

so to recap
no loss of recording space
no change at all in remote buttons pressed (unless you choose to hit Thumbs up)
the static image will help you better know the commercial is over as it goes away

the commercial was there anyway - just in a FFed state.


please proceed to have fun making a big deal out of a small thing


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Billy66 said:


> Well, I don't know if a screenshot for a yet to be released feature counts as "coming out" with ads on the guide. I think you're referring to the line in the guide for VOD service. Other than being relevant to the DTV product, we couldn't learn anything more about it.
> 
> Just a small point. It's funny that people (I don't mean you specifically Drew), will see a CES screenshot and say that it's "coming out", yet at the same show hear that there will be 100 new HD channels and call that vaporware. Seems it's one way or the other.


Yeah, well I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I have full faith in DirecTV to deliver on their promotional material at CES regarding ads in the guide listings.... Ads bring money, and DirecTV built a demo with ads in the guide. If you build it, they will come. I firmly believe ads are on the way to DirecTV's Plus DVRs.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but just for the record, I have never called an item vaporware, whether it be products or services. I'm much more of a pollyanna when it comes to wanting to believe in marketing hype, etc., so I always leave that door open a crack in the hopes anything resembling the initial offering is delivered.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> this debate is old around here. many distinct viewpoints on it but it always becomes clear that you do not chnage how you use the DVR in any way and all that happens is instead of a fast scrolling montage of images you will see a static image instead and only while the actual commercial is on the screen and only for advertisers that paid TiVo to store the static image on the TiVo partition of the hard drive adn then added the signals to the broadcast stream to trigger the static image to appear while the commercial is up and you FFed it.
> 
> so to recap
> no loss of recording space
> ...


I'm not sure where you've seen a big fuss being made! 

In fact, out of the first 17 posts, I count only one complaining about the banner ads, one questioning if it would change keystrokes, and everyone else commenting that these ads wouldn't be an issue, and in a few posts that they could even be considered "chapter marks" where commercial blocks start and end.

But I will say I really enjoyed your second sentence. I was out of breath by the end!


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Yeah, well I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I have full faith in DirecTV to deliver on their promotional material at CES regarding ads in the guide listings.... Ads bring money, and DirecTV built a demo with ads in the guide. If you build it, they will come. I firmly believe ads are on the way to DirecTV's Plus DVRs.
> 
> I know this wasn't directed at me, but just for the record, I have never called an item vaporware, whether it be products or services. I'm much more of a pollyanna when it comes to wanting to believe in marketing hype, etc., so I always leave that door open a crack in the hopes anything resembling the initial offering is delivered.


I hear ya, and I agree with you drew. But that ad was for part of their service and not a third party product. If they do one, *I* would always bet they would eventually do the other. We'll have to see.

Back to topic everyone!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

drew2k said:


> But I will say I really enjoyed your second sentence. I was out of breath by the end!


guess we need a FF button for reading the forum. 

and the "please proceed" was just in prep for those who would make a big deal.


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

drew2k said:


> I'm not sure where you've seen a big fuss being made!


Maybe not here (yet). I was thinking of the thread I saw on broadbandreports.com


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

CharlesH said:


> I really cannot understand why this feature induces such intense indignation and rage from some people.  Instead of seeing something silently zipping along at the fast-forward rate, one instead sees a silent static image for the same product for the same interval, with the option to click if one actually wants to see an extended ad for that product. Or if not fast-forwarding, you see a small "banner" that says you can click for the extended ad. Or one just 30-second-skips past the whole thing. It doesn't effect how fast you get past the ad, and doesn't require any action to ignore it. The extended ad is recorded late at night from an "infomercial" and stored in a reserved area, so you are not "paying" for downloading it or using up space that otherwise you can use for your recordings.
> 
> So why go ballistic over it?


I must be in the wrong forum... 

Can all of the people who:

1) Have intense indignation and rage
2) Are going ballistic over it

please raise your hands??

The ads won't bother me any as long as I can still fast forward and use 30 second second skip.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> I must be in the wrong forum...
> 
> Can all of the people who:
> 
> ...


this is actually a repeat of an old feature - the first time this was news the threads were long and indignant. maybe they all actually did what they kept threatening and ditched the TiVo and thus no longer post here


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

drew2k said:


> Have you watched Late Show with Letterman recently? He usually does one "live" commercial endorsement per show, and sometimes I find them funny as hell. The funnier ones are usually for food products, as he'll hold up the item, take a bite, make a face like he just tasted poop, and then recover, point to the box, and proclaim the product's glories. If I was an advertiser I might be pissed, but as a viewer who skips ads, I don't mind endorsements such as this because I can laugh with the host...


I admit I'm a few months behind in my Letterman episodes.. but if it's still what he was doing then..

Are you absolutely sure those are paid ads? A lot of them are making fun of the products/slogans. Like they just randomly say "We Do Chicken Right" at a completely irrelevant point.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

mattack said:


> I admit I'm a few months behind in my Letterman episodes.. but if it's still what he was doing then..
> 
> Are you absolutely sure those are paid ads? A lot of them are making fun of the products/slogans. Like they just randomly say "We Do Chicken Right" at a completely irrelevant point.


You know, I really have no idea if they are paid ads or jokes... The most recent one that I recall had Dave's assistants dress him in a yellow rain slicker and hat and hand him a box of fish sticks. He then said the slogan, bit the fish stick, said something about the fish sticks, and said the slogan again. (Sadly, I can't remember the company name!)

I know Dave often has the "President of 7-11" on (an obvious actor) making odd offers (such as, come in to 7-11 and say this phrase, and get a free hot dog).

What is interesting to me is that these bits are 2-to-4 minutes long sometimes, so I can't see them giving up that much show-time if they weren't paid for it ... It would be great to know for sure though!


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

WOW! I just had one!

It was a little logo in the center of the screen... maybe the size of 2 business cards side-by-side... and I could see the video behind it...

NO BIG DEAL! Whoo!

http://www.tydalforce.net/TiVo/ff_ad.jpg


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 12, 2006)

Wow, that's really interesting. Was it there only for the duration of that particular commercial or for the entire duration of the commercial break?


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

That was just for that commercial itself

In fact, I'm trying to remember how it worked... I think the commercial was the first in the set, so at first, it just had the normal "Press Thumbs Up for More" in the upper right-hand corner -- with that little logo "attached" beneath it. When I started fast-forwarding, the Thumbs-Up disappeared, and the logo centered itself. 

As soon as the Puerto Rico commercial ended, the logo went away and it was normal the rest of the way through.

If anyone cares, this was during The Daily Show tonight


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## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Honestly, to me, the best ad implementation by TiVo yet. I hope they can get some revenue from it.


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## SMWinnie (Aug 17, 2002)

IIRC, there was a bug the last time TiVo rolled an inserted-ad system out. The bug intermittently caused the inserted static ad banner to spill over beyond the end of the commercial. (Am I remembering this right? I vaguely remember the problem being that the old system had a discrete turn-on-picture flag and a discrete turn-off-picture flag and the turn-off would sometimes be missing.)

Do I correctly recall the earlier rollout having such a bug? If so, has it been squashed, scraped off and tossed in the dust bin?


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

When we had "fast forward ads" before, they (for me at least) always were displayed into the program itself. Also, on several occasions, they caused my Tivo to lock up, and forced me to unplug the unit to get it back to normal. 
Personally, I find it more difficult to skip the commercials when I cannot actually watch them. I often overshot the end of the commercial break because I couldn't see the "rhythm" of the ads being skipped. It was VERY distracting, and without question caused major disruption to the way I used my Tivo.

People who say otherwise are either very, very forgiving, or didn't use their Tivos the way I do - or perhaps are paid Tivo shills. Regardless, this move would be a major step backwards for Tivo. I would not pay one dime per month for a box that forced me to watch commercials and disrupted my fast forwarding experience.

Tivo - try treating existing customers right, and new customers will follow. Fire your incomptent CEO now. 
In the past there were Tivo evanglists. Now there are both Tivo evangelists, and Tivo haters who talk very negatively about the company. I predict the former will decrease, and the latter will increase. It's no way to run a businesss.


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> this debate is old around here.


Yeah the debate is old and so are the post that point this fact out. The fact that it's an old topic doesn't stop you from posting with the same "it's an old topic, move along" post.


ZeoTiVo said:


> so to recap
> no loss of recording space
> no change at all in remote buttons pressed (unless you choose to hit Thumbs up)
> the static image will help you better know the commercial is over as it goes away


As was stated the last time this came out, if the ad display covers too much of the screen and the commerical that is showing the ad is the last one before the show comes back on (or stays on too long) you may not be able to stop in time to utilize the 3 second FF skip back. Your Tivo-Remote-TV interface has now been modified and you are left to guess when to stop your FF. A lot of what if's to consider... But it's an old topic and if you're new to the forum please don't bore the kool-aid drinkers. 

Y-ASK

Here's me rasing my :down: !


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Atomike said:


> ...People who say otherwise are either very, very forgiving, or didn't use their Tivos the way I do - or perhaps are paid Tivo shills...


..or use TSS.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so to recap
> no loss of recording space
> no change at all in remote buttons pressed (unless you choose to hit Thumbs up)
> the static image will help you better know the commercial is over as it goes away


In the spirit of recapping....

Paying 12.95/month for a premium service
added commercials
added committments
added monthly rates
higher hardware costs
fewer features
no price breaks

Did I miss anything?


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

Adding unwanted "star" ads to menus...
Removing lifetime service option...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> In the spirit of recapping....
> 
> Paying 12.95/month for a premium service
> added commercials
> ...





ZeoTiVo said:


> this is actually a repeat of an old feature - the first time this was news the threads were long and indignant. maybe they all actually did what they kept threatening and ditched the TiVo and thus no longer post here


I guess not


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> I guess not


I guess my post was that the list of concessions the user has been forced to endure outnumber the benefits at this time. If TiVo wants to have an ad supported model they should start passing the savings along to the user. My wife who doesn't complain about much complained again when she saw the ad at the end of AI last night.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

TydalForce said:


> That was just for that commercial itself
> 
> In fact, I'm trying to remember how it worked... I think the commercial was the first in the set, so at first, it just had the normal "Press Thumbs Up for More" in the upper right-hand corner -- with that little logo "attached" beneath it. When I started fast-forwarding, the Thumbs-Up disappeared, and the logo centered itself.
> 
> ...


How did the commercial look at normal playback speed? Just the thumbs-up and no other "overlay" with the Puerto Rico logo in the center?

I see nothing wrong with commercials/banners like this ... I could envision each commercial having the name of the "sponsor" pop-up in a banner during FF, so the viewer at least will see which companies are paying for ad time on the program they're watching, and the company paying for the ad is getting some name recognition.

(My only concern would be that the 30-sec-skip hack is a way to avoid even the FF-banner ads ... and hopefully TiVo conveniently forgets the hack exists. If they disable the hack, they focus more eyeballs on the FF-banner ads, but they piss-off a lot of loyal TiVo customers.)

Edit: I just took another look at your screen capture. It looks like you're in PLAY MODE and not in FF mode, so I don't think that's a pop-up FF banner ad at all - it's part of the commercial!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Atomike said:


> Regardless, this move would be a major step backwards for Tivo. I would not pay one dime per month for a box that forced me to watch commercials and disrupted my fast forwarding experience.


so have you listed it on ebay then. can you point us to the listing so we can follow it


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

drew2k said:


> (My only concern would be that the 30-sec-skip hack is a way to avoid even the FF-banner ads ... and hopefully TiVo conveniently forgets the hack exists. If they disable the hack, they focus more eyeballs on the FF-banner ads, but they piss-off a lot of loyal TiVo customers.)
> 
> Edit: I just took another look at your screen capture. It looks like you're in PLAY MODE and not in FF mode, so I don't think that's a pop-up FF banner ad at all - it's part of the commercial!


I think it is 1xFF and not play mode he did the screen capture of.

and yes the 30 sec skip is a danger point and surprised more people are not posting to tell TiVo to keep it. As a matter of personal preference I do not use 30 sec skip but loosing this unofficial feature would clearly make people use the remote in a different way while watching shows and could well *actually* cost TiVo a lot of subscriptions. It would be a really bad move on TiVo's part if they disabled it.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> so have you listed it on ebay then. can you point us to the listing so we can follow it


You know TiVo's on monthly don't have any value anymore. TiVo saw to that with the new commmitment structure. It's more economical to get a TiVo on a bundled deal for a year than to buy one from a third party and get a separate contract.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> In the spirit of recapping....
> Did I miss anything?


Paying 12.95/month for a premium service
added commercials -- just at the end of the show on the "delete"screen.
added committments - that and loss of lifetime does suck.
added monthly rates -- but you say you pay 12.95 a month - that is the same - not fair to double dip a complaint. see above.
higher hardware costs - the S2 boxes are cheaper and the S3 is new. what higher hardware costs ?
fewer features - they have added features, how can that make fewer features?
no price breaks -- well a sale would be really cool. I did get a 540 140 hour for free and I did get a DT for 155.40 total including 1 year of service though I did not belong to MOPS


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> You know TiVo's on monthly don't have any value anymore. TiVo saw to that with the new commmitment structure. It's more economical to get a TiVo on a bundled deal for a year than to buy one from a third party and get a separate contract.


well true enough. Guess then we will just have to wait for his post talking about how he called TiVo, let them know he hates the billboard ads and then cancelled his service outright


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Y-ASK said:


> As was stated the last time this came out, if the ad display covers too much of the screen and the commerical that is showing the ad is the last one before the show comes back on (or stays on too long) you may not be able to stop in time to utilize the 3 second FF skip back. Your Tivo-Remote-TV interface has now been modified and you are left to guess when to stop your FF. A lot of what if's to consider... But it's an old topic and if you're new to the forum please don't bore the kool-aid drinkers.


and as shown last time and again this time with the actual photos of actual instances - none of your ifs actually happen. Why are the "kool-aid drinkers" the ones seeing clearly


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I think it is 1xFF and not play mode he did the screen capture of.


I don't know if it's a version-specific thing, but on my DirecTV-TiVo boxes, the indicator turns to three right-pointing diamonds the moment I hit FF.

At 1x speed, the leftmost diamond is filled in, with the other two hollow, so that's why I thought the pic was posted in play mode, not any of the FF modes.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> added monthly rates -- but you say you pay 12.95 a month - that is the same - not fair to double dip a complaint.


The additional rates are tied to the committment period. Shorter committment equals higher price so for a service that started at 12.95 you no longer get that rate unless you committ for a longer period. For new users this pretty much equates to a higher rate and TiVo's *rumored* recent price drop on the one year commit says it all.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

drew2k said:


> I don't know if it's a version-specific thing, but on my DirecTV-TiVo boxes, the indicator turns to three right-pointing diamonds the moment I hit FF.
> 
> At 1x speed, the leftmost diamond is filled in, with the other two hollow, so that's why I thought the pic was posted in play mode, not any of the FF modes.


It's possible the bar disappeared if he hit clear or waited too long before snapping the picture.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

When I was in PLAY, the "Press Thumbs Up for more info" was in the upper right-hand corner of the screen. "attached" to that was the same card -- still in the upper right corner

My photo was taken in 1xFF, and that little image appeared dead-center until the commercial was over

Man, I wish I'd actually hit RECORD on this show so I could go back and make some more photos for you guys... I was actually watching Live TV at the time


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> It's possible the bar disappeared if he hit clear or waited too long before snapping the picture.


If that's the case, maybe the centered "PR banner" is a minor bug like one that was talked about earlier, where the FF-banner doesn't close at the proper time, such as at the end of the commercial or when normal play resumes ...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

TydalForce said:


> When I was in PLAY, the "Press Thumbs Up for more info" was in the upper right-hand corner of the screen. "attached" to that was the same card -- still in the upper right corner
> 
> My photo was taken in 1xFF, and that little image appeared dead-center until the commercial was over
> 
> Man, I wish I'd actually hit RECORD on this show so I could go back and make some more photos for you guys... I was actually watching Live TV at the time


Hey, no worries. It's not always easy being a pioneer or trailblazer!


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

LOL I was sitting there, with a migraine no less, watching The Daily Show

I saw the "Press Thumbs Up", which was no big surprise, but the image beneath it I thought was neat. I hit FF and saw the static image in the center and remembered this thread

"I've got to rewind and get my camera!" and grabbed that first snapshot... oh, if only I'd been thinking clear... 

if I see it again, I'll grab some more photos


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## Atomike (Jun 12, 2005)

> well true enough. Guess then we will just have to wait for his post talking about how he called TiVo, let them know he hates the billboard ads and then cancelled his service outright


Good grief. If I paid monthly, I would call Tivo, and tell them to cancel. However, I have one lifetime box. Just one - and it will be my last Tivo. If your post implies that I was bluffing, or being dishonest, all I can say is that you don't seem to clearly understand my post, and many other posts to which you respond. Perhaps English is not your primary language - which in which case I completely understand your confusion. If English IS your primary language, then I don't know what to say. Maybe a slight snicker would be appropriate.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Atomike said:


> Good grief. If I paid monthly, I would call Tivo, and tell them to cancel. However, I have one lifetime box. Just one - and it will be my last Tivo. If your post implies that I was bluffing, or being dishonest, all I can say is that you don't seem to clearly understand my post, and many other posts to which you respond. Perhaps English is not your primary language - which in which case I completely understand your confusion. If English IS your primary language, then I don't know what to say. Maybe a slight snicker would be appropriate.


What? Why?

Do you cancel your cable because your pay cable channels have ads? 

It doesn't affect the operation of your TiVo, who cares?


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

ZeoTiVo said:


> and as shown last time and again this time with the actual photos of actual instances - none of your ifs actually happen. Why are the "kool-aid drinkers" the ones seeing clearly


It wasn't shown last time. Once it was figured out that there was a problem you never saw another one again. At least I never saw another one. Why are you trying to re-write history? And if the current pictures are any indication, the banner is still very large in the center of the screen. And you think you are "seeing clearly"? I would differ with you, as usual, with that. You're walking around with blinders on.

My biggest complaint from the last time this happened was that Tivo gave the banner size control over to the advertisers and broadcasters. Tivo let them decide how large the ad was going to be and how long it would run... How's that for TV your way?

Y-ASk


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> It doesn't affect the operation of your TiVo, who cares?


That is still TBD whether it affects the operation of your Tivo or not. There's not enough of them out there to get a feel of what the effect might be. And if HBO were to run a commerical for "Stay Free" mini pads I would cancel my HBO subscription. I'm paying for content not commericals...

Y-ASK


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> What? Why?
> 
> Do you cancel your cable because your pay cable channels have ads?
> 
> It doesn't affect the operation of your TiVo, who cares?


To begin with, no other video recorder in history has inserted ads into the interface before TiVo. How's that for innovation.  It's not something that people are accustomed to seeing and dealing with as typically a video recorder gives you freedom from ads, not freedom to the advertisers.

Basically we are really on new ground here. For me I keep waiting for the ad subsidies to reduce my overall cost but so far I haven't seen it. I do see this gradual encroachment of advertising to be a slippery slope with incremental changes to the box that eventually turns it into a full fledged advertising vehicle. You can look at the history of the box so far and see the difference, unfortuanately some people will be happy until the menu items are crowded with flashing icons proclaiming the next greatest product is available at your local store for just 19.95.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Atomike said:


> Good grief. If I paid monthly, I would call Tivo, and tell them to cancel. However, I have one lifetime box. Just one - and it will be my last Tivo. If your post implies that I was bluffing, or being dishonest, all I can say is that you don't seem to clearly understand my post, and many other posts to which you respond. Perhaps English is not your primary language - which in which case I completely understand your confusion. If English IS your primary language, then I don't know what to say. Maybe a slight snicker would be appropriate.


well your personal insults say a lot about you. 
I am sure you honestly feel you do not like the ads and I also maintain that the only way TiVo will stop them is for subscribers to make their viewpoint clear in the form of lost subscriptions. Barring that TiVo will continue to follow this revenue stream. So you have the special case of just one lifetimed TiVo. I would write them a letter and let TiVo know specifically how you feel and that it is costing them a customer. That is the kind of action needed to make an impression. Looking forward to a post on the body of your letter.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Y-ASK said:


> It wasn't shown last time. Once it was figured out that there was a problem you never saw another one again. At least I never saw another one. Why are you trying to re-write history?


 How is the fact that TiVo clearly made sure, quickly and effeciently, that a glitch would not effect how the TiVo DVR was used not backing up my contention? There was no rewrite by me but now you are trying to rewrite things.



> And if the current pictures are any indication, the banner is still very large in the center of the screen. And you think you are "seeing clearly"? I would differ with you, as usual, with that. You're walking around with blinders on.


Again the guy supposedly with blinders can easily see the underlying commercial and would have no trouble knowing when the show is back on since under prescribed behaivior the graphic in the middle of the screen would go away. 


> My biggest complaint from the last time this happened was that Tivo gave the banner size control over to the advertisers and broadcasters. Tivo let them decide how large the ad was going to be and how long it would run... How's that for TV your way?
> 
> Y-ASk


 umm - the billboard can never be displayed longer than the actual commercial for the same product or company. TiVo will not throw some graphic up over top of some other ad or the show. 
As for the size, do you an actual memory or link to one that was larger than the ones shown here? I can not recall any large billboard ad myself. Also note they show the graphic in the upper right of the screen at normal play speed. The advertiser would do themselves a disservice to make it too big.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> To begin with, no other video recorder in history has inserted ads into the interface before TiVo. How's that for innovation.  It's not something that people are accustomed to seeing and dealing with as typically a video recorder gives you freedom from ads, not freedom to the advertisers.


 umm, it is not in the DVR itself but Comcast recently took 1 of only 5 lines of actual guide display off their guide channel and replaced it with Ads. DirectTV will start using ads. TiVo is far from alone in using advertsing as a revenue source and the only way to avoid ads will be to migrate to an open source DVR solution.

and TiVo pretty much inovated in the DVR space with replayTV as the only notable competitor. ReplayTV is not making DVR boxes any more so perhaps they made some wrong choices in the business plans along the way.

I am confident TiVo will always take the user experience into account as that is its core asset and main competitive strength. The fact that they spend the time they do on trying to make advertsing work while being unobtrusive is just an extension of the very UI design features that made them such a stroing DVR choice in the first place.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> umm, it is not in the DVR itself but Comcast recently took 1 of only 5 lines of actual guide display off their guide channel and replaced it with Ads. DirectTV will start using ads. TiVo is far from alone in using advertsing as a revenue source and the only way to avoid ads will be to migrate to an open source DVR solution.
> 
> and TiVo pretty much inovated in the DVR space with replayTV as the only notable competitor. ReplayTV is not making DVR boxes any more so perhaps they made some wrong choices in the business plans along the way.
> 
> I am confident TiVo will always take the user experience into account as that is its core asset and main competitive strength. The fact that they spend the time they do on trying to make advertsing work while being unobtrusive is just an extension of the very UI design features that made them such a stroing DVR choice in the first place.


I specifically kept it to DVR's since cable has been using advertising on the guide channel for ages while stand alone DVR's and STB's have only recently started this trend. (Recent being last 10 years.)

Like TiVo, ReplayTV's mistakes have been in pricing and a failure to communicate exactly what benefit a DVR gives you. Both devices were overpriced at their introduction and while ReplayTV was sued by big media, TiVo chose to get into bed with them. TiVo also had a subscription model to help them manage operating expenses while the product was being introduced to the average buyer. If it was available today I think I would prefer the ReplayTV and it's consumer oriented features, rather than the advertiser oriented ones TiVo offers.

Fortunately/unfortunately TiVo does make a good product in spite of the advertising and I'm hooked, but I won't go down that advertising road without yelling a little until it starts helping me.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Huh.

Welll, at least we found the people who have intense indignation and rage
and are going ballistic over it...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> Both devices were overpriced at their introduction and while ReplayTV was sued by big media, TiVo chose to get into bed with them. TiVo also had a subscription model to help them manage operating expenses while the product was being introduced to the average buyer. If it was available today I think I would prefer the ReplayTV and it's consumer oriented features, rather than the advertiser oriented ones TiVo offers.


and that is a big difference. ReplayTV with its consumer only focus was dog piled by the industries in its business environment and did not have the size nor money to fight back and survive. Now advertising or lack thereof was not specifically what did replayTV in but the example is all too clear that to be a recorder of TV shows you are better off to work with the providers of those shows.
TiVo has taken the path of playing nice with the industires in its business environment and is still hanging in there and getting stronger over time. By walking that fine line between advertisers and consumers TiVo will only furtehr strengthen itself.

If you do not want advertising then either go open source or let TiVo know its bottom line will be effected by losing a customer


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> and that is a big difference. ReplayTV with its consumer only focus was dog piled by the industries in its business environment and did not have the size nor money to fight back and survive. Now advertising or lack thereof was not specifically what did replayTV in but the example is all too clear that to be a recorder of TV shows you are better off to work with the providers of those shows.
> TiVo has taken the path of playing nice with the industires in its business environment and is still hanging in there and getting stronger over time. By walking that fine line between advertisers and consumers TiVo will only furtehr strengthen itself.
> 
> If you do not want advertising then either go open source or let TiVo know its bottom line will be effected by losing a customer


I haven't reached that level yet. Maybe later, maybe never.


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## Y-ASK (Aug 17, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Huh.
> 
> Welll, at least we found the people who have intense indignation and rage
> and are going ballistic over it...


As Zeo likes to point out, how did you miss the last ten times we went over this subject matter of advertising on a Tivo? We go through it at least once every three to six months and sometimes it does get heated. Quit drinking the kool-aid and come on over to the dark side of indignation and rage. Can't you just fffeeeeell the POWER! The dark side is where it's at my friend. It's the only way to save the life of the Tivo we all love... 

Y-ASK


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Y-ASK said:


> As Zeo likes to point out, how did you miss the last ten times we went over this subject matter of advertising on a Tivo? We go through it at least once every three to six months and sometimes it does get heated. Quit drinking the kool-aid and come on over to the dark side of indignation and rage. Can't you just fffeeeeell the POWER! The dark side is where it's at my friend. It's the only way to save the life of the Tivo we all love...
> 
> Y-ASK


 someday you will be thrown over a railing while the audience cheers


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Y-ASK said:


> As Zeo likes to point out, how did you miss the last ten times we went over this subject matter of advertising on a Tivo? We go through it at least once every three to six months and sometimes it does get heated. Quit drinking the kool-aid and come on over to the dark side of indignation and rage. Can't you just fffeeeeell the POWER! The dark side is where it's at my friend. It's the only way to save the life of the Tivo we all love...
> 
> Y-ASK


Oh, well, I had DirecTiVo's then, so these kind of things didn't affect me..


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## supersportsfan (Sep 15, 2005)

Now I can't say that I have encountered one of these new ads yet, (though I did catch a "thumbs up" ad the other night, but without a static image) but if they work the same way that previous ads have, a quick press of the clear button will make these "pesky to some" ads disappear...many of you are probably aware of this, but for those who aren't, I hope this calms your anger...


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

The only reported ad I have heard of from this forum is the Puerto Rico ad. Looking in my showcase the other day I noticed Puerto Rico is in there. What it seems to me is that as your are zipping by an ad with Tivo the advertsied paid even more money on top of paying for the ad spot in order to have Tivo pop-up a banner over their own commercial, if this is truly the case then I think it is an ingenious plan and benefits all involved as the advertiser still gets their add out there even though we are zipping past them, Tivo earns extra income which helps keep cost low and if the ad is something that we are interested in we will be able to get more information instanly by pressing the thumbs button.

If the ads are overlayed on top of the commercial black and the advertisers are different I could see how say Mazda could be upset because MasterCard is taking over their commercial space on NBC because Master Card bypassed NBC and paid Tivo.


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## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

Stormspace said:


> For me I keep waiting for the ad subsidies to reduce my overall cost but so far I haven't seen it.


No kidding. The big lie, ads reduce your costs.  Hey, maybe if folks repeat it more it will suddenly become true.



> I do see this gradual encroachment of advertising to be a slippery slope with incremental changes to the box that eventually turns it into a full fledged advertising vehicle. You can look at the history of the box so far and see the difference, unfortuanately some people will be happy until the menu items are crowded with flashing icons proclaiming the next greatest product is available at your local store for just 19.95.


Bang on.

I love all the blind fanboys here. Tivo could introduce a bug that caused it to explode and kill your grandmother, and half the folks here would be saying it was a great feature, and how it saved you money by not needing a rest homes for her.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Fraser+Dief said:


> I love all the blind fanboys here. Tivo could introduce a bug that caused it to explode and kill your grandmother, and half the folks here would be saying it was a great feature, and how it saved you money by not needing a rest homes for her.


Small ads while fast forwarding is the same as a bug that kills your grandmother....


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## PotentiallyCoherent (Jul 25, 2002)

indyrobb said:


> Link with pictures of what to expect
> http://surmise.blogspot.com/2007/01/tivos-fast-forward-ads-are-back_15.html
> 
> Original Link
> ...


It's amusing that the site you reference is supported by ads.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

BarryBarlow said:


> It's amusing that the site you reference is supported by ads.


Don't see any with my Firefox....


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

indyrobb said:


> Link with pictures of what to expect
> http://surmise.blogspot.com/2007/01/tivos-fast-forward-ads-are-back_15.html


That's the one I saw yesterday. At 3xFF, it's gone so fast you hardly notice it.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I don't see FF ads when I 30 second skip...


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Fraser+Dief said:


> ...Tivo could introduce a bug that caused it to explode and kill your grandmother, and half the folks here would be saying it was a great feature, and how it saved you money by not needing a rest homes for her.


WTF?!?!?!?


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> That's the one I saw yesterday. At 3xFF, it's gone so fast you hardly notice it.


Yeah I saw one as well when i accidently 1xFF'ed. I never see them with 30 sec skip or anything greater than 1x.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

I typically 2xFF, and that's when I originally saw the one I photographed


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Y-ASK said:


> That is still TBD whether it affects the operation of your Tivo or not. There's not enough of them out there to get a feel of what the effect might be. And if HBO were to run a commerical for "Stay Free" mini pads I would cancel my HBO subscription. I'm paying for content not commericals...
> 
> Y-ASK


How is it TBD?  Many of us have witnessed them, they do NOT impact the operation of your tivo! 30 Second skip still works, everything works normally.


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