# Holy Crap, Batman, that's a lot of space!



## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

I've had my new XL4 for about a week (replacing my original S3).

The 4-tuner goodness is pretty amazing, with 3 or 4 of them churning most of the time. I am only at "12% full" but have a mountain of programming to watch, with over 100 suggestions among the MANY scheduled recordings.

The suggestions engine is matching my preference pretty closely, after a couple rounds of adding thumbs-down to stuff I did not like.

I cannot imagine this TiVo getting to >50%, let alone 100%! Yikes.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The suggestion recordings will not increase the usage meter. You could have 300 hour long HD suggestions and it would not increase the percentage of the usage meter.

I recently enabled suggestions on my both of my Elites. They have been recording suggestions like crazy. Using all four tuners alot. I enabled it only five days ago and I already have over 130 HD suggestions on each box.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> The suggestion recordings will not increase the usage meter.


Ahh, good to know, Thanks!!


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## TerpBE (Jan 23, 2003)

I remember having an internship in college, and one day the IT guy came in with a 1 GB hard drive. I remember thinking, "Wow...how will anybody ever fill that up?"

Your perspective will change in a few months.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

TerpBE said:


> I remember having an internship in college, and one day the IT guy came in with a 1 GB hard drive. I remember thinking, "Wow...how will anybody ever fill that up?"


Similar story, only in an earlier year. A co-worker was considering buy a 20MB (yes "MB") drive. I told him he'd never hope to fill that thing. D'oh, was I ever wrong! 

He is happy to remind me of that statement to this day!


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

My first PC was an original IBM 8088 with a 20MB HD. I upgraded it to 40MB for a whopping $250. How things change


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## aaronkn (Nov 8, 2002)

mchief said:


> My first PC was an original IBM 8088 with a 20MB HD. I upgraded it to 40MB for a whopping $250. How things change


I'll go one better. First computer was a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3. 2Mhz processor, NO hard drive, two 5.25" floppys, and a cassette interface for saving data to tapes.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

aaronkn said:


> I'll go one better. First computer was a Radio Shack TRS-80 Model 3. 2Mhz processor, NO hard drive, two 5.25" floppys, and a cassette interface for saving data to tapes.


My first real computer was a TRS-80 CoCo 1 with 4k of RAM, and NO floppy. ONLY cassette interface. No networking. No Internet. TV monitor with 32 columns of text. Software was something you keyed in manually, in BASIC, from magazines, or bought on a ROM cartridge. Slow-ass printer and 300 baud modem came quite a while later. But I used even older stuff before that- Timex Sinclair, Heathkit, Model 1, etc.

When you look back at all the change, it is truly mind bending. And no matter what I currently have, it is never fast enough, never enough storage, and never has all the features I want


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

There was no "Internet" as we know it now back when I had my Commodore 64, but there were forums (dial up bulletin boards). 

I was so jealous of my friends that were able to upgrade to the Commodore 128.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Mine is almost full. I don't have suggestions turned on, but the other day I had 8 programs in recently deleted. It's mainly because I have 4-5 shows that I have not watched at all this season, so I have 22-24 hours of each just sitting there. I'll either watch them this summer or I'll delete them and the SP before next season starts.

Dan


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## Ed_Hunt (Jan 2, 2004)

steve614 said:


> There was no "Internet" as we know it now back when I had my Commodore 64, but there were forums (dial up bulletin boards).
> 
> I was so jealous of my friends that were able to upgrade to the Commodore 128.


Yup, Commodore 64 was my first then the 128 and then off to the races.


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## 241705 (Mar 9, 2010)

Oh, yeah. Commodore 64 with the cassette drive. I remember buying a book of programs including Lunar Lander. Awesome!


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## Ziggy86 (Jun 23, 2004)

My concern is when the hard drive stops working. I am not a computer expert so I am not comfortable buying a hard drive and following the steps to get it to work with Tivo so to buy one ready from weaknees will be expensive


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

Weaknees is a great option, and not really too much more expensive that DIY. Really is plug and play from them...


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Hard drives all have limited read/write capabilities. Eventually they will fail. I don't like to needlessly use that capacity up by allowing TiVo to record shows that I may not like or care to watch so I don't leave the suggestions feature enabled. I am quite capable of shortening the life of my equipment without help from TiVo!


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## MC Hammer (Jul 29, 2011)

Bighouse said:


> Hard drives all have limited read/write capabilities. Eventually they will fail. I don't like to needlessly use that capacity up by allowing TiVo to record shows that I may not like or care to watch so I don't leave the suggestions feature enabled. I am quite capable of shortening the life of my equipment without help from TiVo!


Too bad that doesn't matter as Tivo is writing to the hard drive 24/7 for your Live TV cache. Recordings put no extra stress on the drive.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

MC Hammer said:


> Too bad that doesn't matter as Tivo is writing to the hard drive 24/7 for your Live TV cache. Recordings put no extra stress on the drive.


So, you're saying that if I have my Tivo in standby mode and I don't have any recordings scheduled of my own design, that Tivo is constantly recording to the HD??? I can't believe that's true.

However, if I have it in standby mode my hunch is that it WILL kick in the suggestions feature and start recording all on its own. Or, am I wrong on this one too???


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

All standby does is disable the outputs. The Tivo still records the live TV buffers.

If you have automatic recording of suggestions turned off, standby will not cause them to start recording.
If you have suggestions turned on, standby allows the Tivo to record suggestions without any input from the user (It doesn't need to ask if it can change a channel to record a suggestion).


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## MC Hammer (Jul 29, 2011)

Bighouse said:


> So, you're saying that if I have my Tivo in standby mode and I don't have any recordings scheduled of my own design, that Tivo is constantly recording to the HD??? I can't believe that's true.
> 
> However, if I have it in standby mode my hunch is that it WILL kick in the suggestions feature and start recording all on its own. Or, am I wrong on this one too???


Your Live TV is constantly buffered (I.E. written to the hard drive) so long as the Tivo is connected to power.

And no, as long as suggestions are disabled, under no circumstances will your box record them.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

Wow...four tuners constantly buffering no matter the mode the unit is set to?!?!? I'm guessing Tivo couldn't qualify for an "Energy Star" rating????

Personally, I think that's a true waste of energy and can't help but wonder if there wasn't a better way for Tivo to implement this- both to conserve energy and prolong hard drive life. I'm not so addicted to television that, when turning it on, I feel I MUST backup to the start of the buffering session for a show that's being buffered by my four tuners.

Thanks for the education.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't think they bothered to certify the new version, the the initial press release shows that the Premiere is Energy Star certified.

Try search- tons and tons of threads on this. I'll not start the discussion on hard drive life here, but the consensus is that its irrelevant. So, turn those suggestions back on!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Bighouse said:


> Wow...four tuners constantly buffering no matter the mode the unit is set to?!?!? I'm guessing Tivo couldn't qualify for an "Energy Star" rating????
> 
> Personally, I think that's a true waste of energy and can't help but wonder if there wasn't a better way for Tivo to implement this- both to conserve energy and prolong hard drive life. I'm not so addicted to television that, when turning it on, I feel I MUST backup to the start of the buffering session for a show that's being buffered by my four tuners.
> 
> Thanks for the education.


The four tuner TiVo uses around 21/23 watts. The two tuner TiVo uses around 24/25 watts. Even when the Elite is recording four things, it is still using less power than the two tuner Premieres.
when not doing much else except filling the four buffers the Elite can dip just under 21 watts.

I have noticed a savings of a few dollars on my electric bill by replacing four, two tuner Premieres, with two Elites/XL4s.


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

Do you know why the 2 tuner uses more power? Seems odd.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

steve614 said:


> All standby does is disable the outputs. The Tivo still records the live TV buffers.


Nitpick, that isn't true of the DirecTV TiVos (at least up through the series 2 units; I've got no experience with any of their HD TiVo offerings)

If you woke one of those up from an hour of standby there'd be a 60 minute seemless gap missing in the live buffer. (It wasn't indicated in the progress bar, but 1 second you're watching the buffer content from 8:15 the next second from 9:15)


swerver said:


> Do you know why the 2 tuner uses more power? Seems odd.


Just a guess but possibly the ATCS tuners (which the elite doesn't have) take more power than the QAM tuners. (under the hood the premiere actually does have 4 tuners, 2 dedicated to QAM (cable) and 2 dedicated to ATSC (over the air antenna))


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

markp99 said:


> Weaknees is a great option, and not really too much more expensive that DIY. Really is plug and play from them...


Agreed! My current Tivo is a Weaknees DirecTivo with a supersized drive. It should be big enough. However, I have a habit of keeping a bunch of KUID shows, and I recently got a warning that if I KUID'd a show, that other stuff would get deleted early. There's no such thing as enough HD space.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Bighouse said:


> Hard drives all have limited read/write capabilities. Eventually they will fail. I don't like to needlessly use that capacity up by allowing TiVo to record shows that I may not like or care to watch so I don't leave the suggestions feature enabled. I am quite capable of shortening the life of my equipment without help from TiVo!


As others said, your TiVo is "always" recording (live buffer), whether you have suggestions on or not. Plus the drive is always spinning. I don't think turning off suggestions is going to make much difference in drive life. And it will make no difference in power.

And if the TiVo DID support spinning down the drive and back up again between stuff, that would certainly lower the life of the drive. Sometimes you can't win


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

markp99 said:


> I've had my new XL4 for about a week (replacing my original S3).
> 
> The 4-tuner goodness is pretty amazing, with 3 or 4 of them churning most of the time. I am only at "12% full" but have a mountain of programming to watch, with over 100 suggestions among the MANY scheduled recordings.
> 
> ...


I've had a 2TB drive in my Premiere (original 2 tuner) for almost a year and I consistently sit at 17-21% capacity. I like not ever feeling rushed to watch anything.


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## swerver (May 18, 2012)

Jonathan_S said:


> Just a guess but possibly the ATCS tuners (which the elite doesn't have) take more power than the QAM tuners. (under the hood the premiere actually does have 4 tuners, 2 dedicated to QAM (cable) and 2 dedicated to ATSC (over the air antenna))


That makes sense. Does that mean I can record 4 at a time if I hook up the antenna?


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

swerver said:


> That makes sense. Does that mean I can record 4 at a time if I hook up the antenna?


No. Each "tuner" can tune to either cable OR over the air... can't do both at the same time.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

swerver said:


> That makes sense. Does that mean I can record 4 at a time if I hook up the antenna?


Think of it as two virtual tuners. Each virtual tuner can record either QAM, ATSC, or NTSC. You can only record two things concurrently.


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

Ziggy86 said:


> My concern is when the hard drive stops working. I am not a computer expert so I am not comfortable buying a hard drive and following the steps to get it to work with Tivo so to buy one ready from weaknees will be expensive


It's really easy, if you can learn ahead about anything you *might* have to do so your computer will be able use the copying program.

Yes, you can pay a $60 to $100 premium for true plug & play.

Maybe I should let you buy a hard drive and ship it to me , I could do it for $45... 

This was a joke but sound kind of cool.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Leon WIlkinson said:


> It's really easy, if you can learn ahead about anything you *might* have to do so your computer will be able use the copying program.
> 
> Yes, you can pay a $60 to $100 premium for true plug & play.
> 
> ...


Well, that is essentially what the people selling the drives are doing. They have an image of a drive and restore it to a new drive:  They unbox the drive, connect it to a computer, click on a button, it copies for a few minutes, they disconnect and repack the drive.


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## agredon (Jul 26, 2011)

TerpBE said:


> I remember having an internship in college, and one day the IT guy came in with a 1 GB hard drive. I remember thinking, "Wow...how will anybody ever fill that up?"
> 
> Your perspective will change in a few months.


I'm already at 13 Terabytes [on my PC] and counting !!! That's not a typo: (3 x 2 TB) + (2 x 3 TB) + Assorted Old HDDs (60 GB - 500 GB in Size). Only ~ 3 TB of that is Movies. The rest is mostly TV Shows.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

agredon said:


> I'm already at 13 Terabytes [on my PC] and counting !!! That's not a typo: (3 x 2 TB) + (2 x 3 TB) + Assorted Old HDDs (60 GB - 500 GB in Size). Only ~ 3 TB of that is Movies. The rest is mostly TV Shows.


Jeez. And here I thought my 5 TB (a 1 TB + 2TB in the PC and 2 TB in the Tivo) was excessive.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I guess the 100+TB I have in storage is excessive then?

I've got 56TB in my WHS, 32TB in my first unRAID, 7TB in my second unRAID, and around 10TB in my other NAS devices and desktop PCs.

I guess if you add the TiVos that is even more storage.


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## agredon (Jul 26, 2011)

aaronwt said:


> I guess the 100+TB I have in storage is excessive then?
> 
> I've got 56TB in my WHS, 32TB in my first unRAID, 7TB in my second unRAID, and around 10TB in my other NAS devices and desktop PCs.
> 
> I guess if you add the TiVos that is even more storage.


If I had the money, I'd build myself at least one of these.

http://blog.backblaze.com/2009/09/01/petabytes-on-a-budget-how-to-build-cheap-cloud-storage/

If I used 3 TB HDDs, each server would have a capacity of 135 TB.


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