# Is TiVo a dead or dying company?



## daevid (Aug 4, 2003)

First post. Finally just frustrated and annoyed enough to vent...

I had an original TiVo since basically day one. Then upgraded to Premiere. I've paid literally thousands in TiVo subscription fees over the past two decades. And recently a few months back, got a killer deal on a Roamio (and two mini's) with lifetime subs. I updated to the "new" UI but it hasn't been updated in the entire time I've had it installed. I have $1 apps in my Android phone that get updated almost every week and yet this company doesn't seem to do anything. Like you have one job. Make the best DVR possible. But it's just a sad dated pathetic version with so much lost potential. It's even reverted in features compared to the old version...

Why don't the thumbs up/down work anymore -- my "suggestions" are absolute garbage and worthless. I used to be able to "like" shows and get useful suggestions. I read that TiVo thinks their algorithm deprecates this need. They're wrong.

Why can't I sort the guide by channel name, so that all THREE of the same channels are grouped together and I'm not hunting through a numbered list? It's ridiculous.
Why are there commercials? We PAY YOU for what amounts to a bloated TV guide. Why do you get to add these interstitials before a show now?
The UI locks up sometimes or is unresponsive. Or it is a black screen. Or glitchy. 
And now the final nail in the coffin is being notified by IFTTT that _"On December 25, 2020, the TiVo service will be removed from IFTTT because the TiVo team no longer supports the service."_

Merry Xmas to us... Thanks TiVo for ruining one more useful feature. I love this IFTTT because I have it hooked up to tell me when one of my Ring camera's detects motion and it shows it on screen of my TiVo with a little popup message in the lower corner. I also use it to notify me when my August door lock on my Airbnb is opened/closed to know if guests have come/gone (and therefore if I need to be quiet or can turn up my TV volume).

I work as a Sr. Software Engineer for a major company and if I or my team put out the garbage that this TiVo UI is, I would be probably looking for a new job...


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

roll back to the te3 guide, and lost functionality you miss will be restored (there are dozens of threads) - you'll lose your recordings, but it will be what you're used to.


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## daevid (Aug 4, 2003)

I guess that's my point though... Why should I have to roll back? Shouldn't TiVo be progressing forward and fixing these regressions and adding amazing new features? Or, as my title suggests/asks, "is TiVo a dead or dying company" at this point and they G.N.Fs?

Rolling back, while restoring a few of those missing features, puts me on a revision that presumably is not going to be updated (either). And if I'm not mistaken, the reason I had to go forward to the new UI was b/c of the Mini's? Maybe the Mini work with the old version... dunno. Either way, a little orthogonal to the point of my "rant". 

And also the whole IFTTT thing is disturbing. Why take away features, especially if TiVo as a company are too lazy or whatever to make them natively, IFTTT fills a void with free labor that costs TiVo nothing to maintain... or in fact literally just "do nothing" as they seem to be great at, and leave it alone.

Why isn't there forward progress and updates to the one thing this company is supposed to do?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

If not dying, TiVo is definitely evolving — and will have to be to keep up with the rapidly evolving tv marketplace. Digital TV forced a major evolution and complications with CableCARD and Tuning Adapters put a big dent in TiVo’s market penetration. Now the rapid growth of streaming and cloud DVR’s are the evolution drivers. A device that provides an integration of numerous streaming services with good DVR features is needed to be competitive. Whether the Stream is, or will soon become, that device remains to be seen.

After 20+ years TiVo has to be a different company than it once was. I wonder how many of its employees have been there more than 10 years?


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## driverseven (Oct 11, 2007)

One big problem Tivo is facing is that most cable companies no longer support cable cards and that makes it very difficult for Tivo to attract new customers. I have also been a very longtime customer (well over 10 years) but it is a nightmare these days to replace the Tivo box. The cable company put me through absolute hell recently to pair the Tivo with their system. I couldn't possibly recommend Tivo to anyone after that experience. It is sad but Tivo is losing its main business in supporting cable TV and it is way behind the field in streaming.


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## daevid (Aug 4, 2003)

I would argue that the plethora of streaming little sticks from FireTV, Roku, GoogleTV, etc. is exactly the reason TiVo should focus on their core business. I have literally all of those devices and 90% of the time I watch TiVo DVR recorded shows from Comcast cable... The streaming services do not have the latest TV shows. I have Hulu, Netflix, etc. and truth be told, I have all the "3rd party streaming" things whereby I could technically get my TV shows too, but it's a hassle. And then we have people like my g.f. who is probably the real reason I keep this damn TiVo all these years, b/c she's not technical and just knows how to use this remote and all that. Trying to explain how some things are in some services and you have to switch TV inputs and amplifier buttons and use this remote for that thing is a nightmare... When Microsoft killed off (arguably the best thing they ever made) Windows Media Center (which I still use on my main TV as it works amazing with my Ceton InfiniTV 4 HD PCIe card in Windows7) it left a void that only TiVo fills to this day AFAIK. Plex is great but the lack of TV DVR sans OTR garbage is a serious deficiency. TiVo has the brand and the hardware and the connections to cable companies to do what they do best. They need to get their head out of their proverbial a** and stop trying to make a streaming box that is a commodity at this point -- anything running android can do that now. Infuriating. Disappointing.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

daevid said:


> got a killer deal on a Roamio (and two mini's) with lifetime subs.





NorthAlabama said:


> roll back to the te3 guide, and lost functionality you miss will be restored (there are dozens of threads) - you'll lose your recordings, but it will be what you're used to.


Just be aware that rollback to TE3 for A92/A93 version Mini's may be problematic: Trying to Move Mini from TE4 host to a TE3 Host; A95 (VOX/LUX) Mini's haven't been reported as having the problem.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

daevid said:


> Why isn't there forward progress and updates to the one thing this company is supposed to do?


Because cablecard is dying and they were never able to work deals to replace it, plus streamers with DVR functionality mean you don't need anything but cheap sticks or built-in TV apps to use them. Yes, none of them work as well as a Tivo+Minis setup but they are way cheaper and the younger gen of folks don't want to pay for cable or mess with OTA.

More importantly, Tivo as a company has always been a one step forward two steps back org, and they have been too slow to market for everything.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

I agree... not the TiVo we used to know. I personally don’t think that I would invest in any new hardware. I have a Roamio and a Bolt and 3 minis. Hopefully they will last for a while. By the way... you can call and opt out of those annoying pre roll adds.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

dlfl said:


> If not dying, TiVo is definitely evolving - and will have to be to keep up with the rapidly evolving tv marketplace.


The entire concept of "time-shifting" has changed. I'm not saying DVRs are obsolete, but they're no longer considered essential since streaming and VOD have become so widely available and accessible.

I think it's too late- you have an entire generation of consumers that grew up without cable and VCRs, but stream to their heart's content. TiVo's challenge isn't attracting new customers- it's keeping the ones they've got from leaving the platform.

Still own two Roamios. But have been using less and less for years.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Saturn_V said:


> Still own two Roamios. But have been using less and less for years.


I've got three Bolts and two Roamios. The only thing I watch on TiVo these days is "Jeopardy".


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> I've got three Bolts and two Roamios. The only thing I watch on TiVo these days is "Jeopardy".


The FireTV Recast caps my daily Jeopardy shows.

The last thing I seriously recorded on TiVo was the Ken Burns Vietnam War series. That was three years ago. The Roamios still have "standing orders" to record PBS staples. (ATK, Nova, Frontline, Independent Lens) but so does the Recast. And I have fewer and fewer reasons to change inputs.


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## daevid (Aug 4, 2003)

And now these idiots are ending Alexa integration too... Instead of progressing into the IOT and smarthome space like everyone else, they're going backwards FFS.
https://zatznotfunny.com/2020-12/tivo-ends-ifttt/


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

daevid said:


> And also the whole IFTTT thing is disturbing. Why take away features, especially if TiVo as a company are too lazy or whatever to make them natively, IFTTT fills a void with free labor that costs TiVo nothing to maintain... or in fact literally just "do nothing" as they seem to be great at, and leave it alone.


Because IFTTT is no longer free for companies to participate in.

I'd wager that the percentage of TiVo user who even know what IFTTT is so low it doesn't make any sense for TiVo to pay to support a minuscule amount of their users.

IFTTT shot itself in its foot by changing its free model by starting to charge users and companies.

IFTTT itself will be gone soon enough. Likely sooner than TiVo.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

daevid said:


> When Microsoft killed off (arguably the best thing they ever made) Windows Media Center (which I still use on my main TV as it works amazing with my Ceton InfiniTV 4 HD PCIe card in Windows7) it left a void that only TiVo fills to this day AFAIK. Plex is great but the lack of TV DVR sans OTR garbage is a serious deficiency.


Many of us have moved on to Channels DVR at this point. I find it much better than Plex, because the developers are focused on making a good DVR while Plex tries to cover too many bases.

It relies on HDHR tuners instead of Ceton, but also offers a beta feature for recording TVE streams. Here are a couple posts about the setup I've been running all year (where I also mention that my last remaining TiVo and Minis are still on TE3, also highly recommended): https://www.tivocommunity.com/community/i...


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## Aaron Malloy (Oct 30, 2019)

Saturn_V said:


> The entire concept of "time-shifting" has changed. I'm not saying DVRs are obsolete, but they're no longer considered essential since streaming and VOD have become so widely available and accessible.


I agree. I stopped paying for my Tivo OTA service for good about 9 months ago. I figured I would miss the way I watched TV with it. But I found that I really don't. Since I stream nearly 100% of what I watch, I can still time shift, rewind and fast-forward like a DVR. And everything that's on the air these days will be streamed shortly after. I'm not really missing anything.

'Stream' and 'Netflix' have replaced 'Tivo' as the verb of choice with most people these days. Tivo doesn't even have the name recognition anymore, so it's not like they're going to be a factor outside of their core business.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

To summarize: 
*Is TiVo a dead or dying company?*
Yes.


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## Finalrinse (Jan 13, 2005)

I love my TiVo's (2) and Mini's (5), all with Lifetime service. I'm paying Comcast around $160. a month (includes cable, phone, internet). If I had to go all Comcast equipment/service and duplicate what I have it would easily add $100 per month more. I'm cloning a new hard drive for my Roamio Pro as I type this, just for maintenance purposes (cheap at $73 for 3TB), my Roamio's are 6 years old and love them. I want to keep them going as long as I can.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> ........ and the younger gen of folks don't want to pay for cable or mess with OTA.
> ..................


Two corrections:
1. It isn't _paying_ for cable that's the rub; it's the hassle of _dealing with_ cable.
2. It isn't just the younger generation; I'm many decades past "younger" and cut cable a year ago.

Cable TV has built a scab for most of their customers, at least those who cared about what they watched, how much it cost, and the effort required to deal with them in response to frequent automatic huge rate increases.


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## Aaron Malloy (Oct 30, 2019)

dlfl said:


> Two corrections:
> Cable TV has built a scab for most of their customers, at least those who cared about what they watched, how much it cost, and the effort required to deal with them in response to frequent automatic huge rate increases.


Whether cable or satellite, I think most people got tired of paying for channels we weren't going to be watching that much anyway. I like sports, but I'm not rabid about them. But a big chuck of what cable/sat companies were getting from me was going straight to ESPN and others, and then much of that money was going to sports teams who have been getting obscenely rich via insane TV contracts. _We_ the TV viewers were/are a big reason they've gotten so rich.


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

Not so sure about the paying part for cable. My Altice bill is $210/month. Of that around $40 is for sports I don't watch. There is no OTA here.

The cable card stuff is a direct and immediate threat to Tivo, but I think the longer term threat is that cable tv is itself dying by its own hand, and they are tied to cable.


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## radtechy (Aug 16, 2008)

dlfl said:


> If not dying, TiVo is definitely evolving - and will have to be to keep up with the rapidly evolving tv marketplace. Digital TV forced a major evolution and complications with CableCARD and Tuning Adapters put a big dent in TiVo's market penetration. Now the rapid growth of streaming and cloud DVR's are the evolution drivers. A device that provides an integration of numerous streaming services with good DVR features is needed to be competitive. Whether the Stream is, or will soon become, that device remains to be seen.


If you're referring to the TiVo stream they're way behind. TiVo wasn't a big name over the past 5-10 years. With fire sticks, Apple TV, Roku that are more well known already own those customers. They're way behind. And once customers can't get the cable companies to service cable cards then it's more loss of business too.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

radtechy said:


> If you're referring to the TiVo stream they're way behind. TiVo wasn't a big name over the past 5-10 years. With fire sticks, Apple TV, Roku that are more well known already own those customers. They're way behind. And once customers can't get the cable companies to service cable cards then it's more loss of business too.


(Yes, I was referring to the TiVo Stream product *EDIT:* Actually the TiVo Stream 4k - the one that's a dongle.)
Agreed, and I doubt TiVo has the technical team to compete in the streamer arena, and since they're so far behind I would assume it's very difficult to attract such a team. But I'm just speculating here.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

elorimer said:


> ........
> The cable card stuff is a direct and immediate threat to Tivo ..........


Has been for more than a decade and just getting worse as cable cos are getting more recalcitrant to support them.

However I don't think a lot of TiVo owners realize what a hassle a Tuning Adapter (TA) can be. I never had trouble with my CableCARD during the ten years I used a digital TiVo (2009 - 2019), but the required TA was a continual PITA, and was never properly supported by TWC/Spectrum. The TA box (Cisco) is as big as a TiVo Roamio and uses more power, but the real problem was its poor reliability, which never was improved. At best, it needed to be power-cycled about once a month when all channels were lost. At worst, other users have reported having to put it on a timer to be automatically power-cycled once every day!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

radtechy said:


> f you're referring to the TiVo stream





dlfl said:


> (Yes, I was referring to the TiVo Stream product)


TiVo Stream
TiVo Stream 4K


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> TiVo Stream
> TiVo Stream 4K


I meant the 4K dongle deal.


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## clueless88 (Dec 31, 2019)

I started using my Tivo Roamio OTA with lifetime service shortly after we cut the cable cord. Can't believe that we didn't part ways with cable TV YEARS ago. Only programs we recorded with the cable dvr were network or PBS programs--really don't watch sports nor do I find cable news networks relevant or informative--I think my anxiety level throughout the past 4 years as well as the pandemic is pretty minimal since I do not partake CNN, MSNBC, PBS news, or even OTA news.

I put an amplified antenna in the attic (around $30 on Amazon) and we get a bunch of OTA channels (we live on very flat terrain and are within 30 miles of most of the transmitters). Have it set to record some TV series as well as the occasional PBS programs. I find the Roamio OTA perfect for my needs--it's not as intuitive or slick as the cable company's DVR, but considering that there is no monthly fee and there really isn't any other real alternative that works as well for OTA I am satisfied.

Have been watching a lot of streaming shows this year on Amazon and Netflix as well as free stuff on Roku channel and others. May need to sign up for something like Philo once the Fixer upper folks launch their Magnolia channel (that was a condition of my cutting the cord).

It isn't completely true that we have cut the cable, our internet (just bare internet) is provisioned by a cable company--but we are paying about 1/3 as much for internet and streaming than when we had bundled TV and cable (and the monthly dvr/extra receiver fees). Penciling it out, just the savings that we get by cutting out cable TV more than pays for a new TIVO OTA system with lifetime service in a very short time.

I am hoping that TIVO continues to provide products for OTA recording enthusiasts--I think there isn't as much competition in the OTA recording market as opposed to the streaming market--our older BluRay players as well as both of our TVs have built in streamers which have made our Amazon fire stick and Roku boxes redundant.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

clueless88 said:


> Have been watching a lot of streaming shows this year on Amazon and Netflix as well as free stuff on Roku channel and others. May need to sign up for something like Philo once the Fixer upper folks launch their Magnolia channel (that was a condition of my cutting the cord).


At the beginning of the year Discovery+ will be launching a new streaming service that will include Food, History, HGTV, DYI,Magnolia, and a few other channels for @ $7.00 month commercial free and $5.00 month with commercials. Sounds like a good selection if you enjoy these.


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## clueless88 (Dec 31, 2019)

MrDell said:


> At the beginning of the year Discovery+ will be launching a new streaming service that will include Food, History, HGTV, DYI,Magnolia, and a few other channels for @ $7.00 month commercial free and $5.00 month with commercials. Sounds like a good selection if you enjoy these.


Thank you for the tip! Great find! Looks like cutting the cord has become even less expensive! Glad you let me know before I signed up for Philo.The website says it will launch January 4th--will see when they start the signups.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

clueless88 said:


> Thank you for the tip! Great find! Looks like cutting the cord has become even less expensive! Glad you let me know before I signed up for Philo.The website says it will launch January 4th--will see when they start the signups.


You're very welcome! I am very seriously thinking of cutting the cord also. My wife and I watch mostly over the air and streaming services and are tired of paying for all of the channels that we never watch. We are lucky to be in a great area for reception except for PBS out of Boston which just went on a low VHF band. I can update my antenna to one of the giant channel master series to pull it in, or just donate $5.00 per month to access all of their programs and the PBS library. Once my contract is done with Verizon I am pretty sure I am going to make the move.... Happy holidays!!


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## DougJohnson (Dec 12, 2006)

MrDell said:


> You're very welcome! I am very seriously thinking of cutting the cord also.


We fired Spectrum in September. No regrets. Their bill for TV and Internet was $187 a month.

Replacement was a lifetime OTA for $249, Philo at $20 a month because we like BBC news, and AT&T gigabit fiber Internet for $71 a month. The OTA picture is much better than compressed cable, gigabit fiber is *fantastic*, and we have no shortage of stuff to watch.

Our favorite local channel broadcasts on channel 9 VHF and was kind of tricky to pick up, but a Winegard 7550 ($49) mounted outside does the job. 
-- Doug


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

DougJohnson said:


> We fired Spectrum in September. No regrets. Their bill for TV and Internet was $187 a month.
> 
> Replacement was a lifetime OTA for $249, Philo at $20 a month because we like BBC news, and AT&T gigabit fiber Internet for $71 a month. The OTA picture is much better than compressed cable, gigabit fiber is *fantastic*, and we have no shortage of stuff to watch.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your feedback.... I am in pretty good shape for cord cutting also. We have a Bolt and Roamio 4 tuners with cable and over the air capability and minis also. Unfortunately our PBS station out of Boston is on low VHF 5 (channel 2 but broadcasting on 5) and could be a little challenging to pick up but by no means impossible with a decent antenna. Verizon in our area is offering 200 up and down with no caps for $39.00/month which is more than enough for us. We really like our TiVo and want to keep using them as long as possible.


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## MannyE (Dec 7, 2001)

clueless88 said:


> I started using my Tivo Roamio OTA with lifetime service shortly after we cut the cable cord. Can't believe that we didn't part ways with cable TV YEARS ago. Only programs we recorded with the cable dvr were network or PBS programs--really don't watch sports nor do I find cable news networks relevant or informative--I think my anxiety level throughout the past 4 years as well as the pandemic is pretty minimal since I do not partake CNN, MSNBC, PBS news, or even OTA news.
> 
> I put an amplified antenna in the attic (around $30 on Amazon) and we get a bunch of OTA channels (we live on very flat terrain and are within 30 miles of most of the transmitters). Have it set to record some TV series as well as the occasional PBS programs. I find the Roamio OTA perfect for my needs--it's not as intuitive or slick as the cable company's DVR, but considering that there is no monthly fee and there really isn't any other real alternative that works as well for OTA I am satisfied.
> 
> ...


I was fed up with the high cost and monopolistic behavior of pay TV in general and cut the cord as soon as I found the Roamio. I'm sad that TiVo seems to be on the way out as the new Edge seems to be some kind of capitulation to the market. They want to kill OTA TV (they being the entertainment oligarchies) and make all TV pay Tv in some way. I love streaming, because it allows for the best value for my entertainment dollar, but I'm ready to ****can all TV watching if I'm forced to pay for it by lobbyists.

I'll be happy reading books and spinning records.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

MannyE said:


> They want to kill OTA TV (they being the entertainment oligarchies) and make all TV pay TV in some way.


The way ATSC 3.0 is developing, some OTA channels will have pay TV and user tracking too. Those features will work when the OTA tuner is connected to the Internet.


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## daevid (Aug 4, 2003)

The problem with all the streaming services is they don't have the latest shows. They have different shows. Or last season's shows. I get Hulu (free from Sprint), I pay $20/mo for Netflix. I pay another $12/mo for Amazon Prime. I pay Comcast $108/mo for basic cable -- to get 80% of the shows I actually watch (Gold Rush, First 48, Catfish, Oak Island, Rediculousness to name a few) None of them I can get "streamed". And that's the core problem. Eventually we'll have all these "streaming apps" and I'll have to buy subscriptions to each one (Disney+, Discovery+, etc.) just to get what I have now in Comcast. Don't get me wrong, they're a **** company and I 100% agree about the bull**** that I HAVE to pay for sportsball channels that I promptly remove from my guide (and all the spanish and other foreign ones too!). But all things considered, they got us by the balls.

Oh, and here's another bull**** thing about Comcast. When I moved into this new house 2 years ago (12/19 to be exact), I was ELATED that I could get CenturyLink FIBER (1GB up and down) for $96/mo/life ... Compared the the absolute garbage Comcast charged me for a "business line" that was -- and I'm not kidding 768kbs up and 6 mpbs down... for $135/mo!!! Why? Oh because I run my own Linux mail server (I don't trust "the man" with my private email). So comcast will purposely block port 25 unless you get rat-****ed into a business account. But I digress.... So it's like day 2 and we've been unpacking and my g.f. is just #overit, and **** if I know which box had the TiVo in it and all the wires and stuff. I think, I'll go to the Comcast store down the way and get that fancy new X1 Infinity DVR talky thing my friend showed me at his house. Cutting the TiVo cord (at that time I was a sucker paying $15/mo for the Tivo "service" on a Premiere). I get there and the guy tells me, "oh no, sorry YOU can't get that because you need OUR internet." Wait wut? WTF does it matter what "internet" I have. It literally doesn't work that way buddy. And he gives me some speal about how they use their own coax to get the firmware updates or some bull****. He says, "but we have this other DVR box you can use". I tell him, I tried their "dvr" (and that's a generous term for the dumpsterfire they try to sell). He assures me "this is almost like the X1, just the previous generation". I agree. Take it home. Plug it in. It is literally the same slow, infurating advert-laden GUI that I had a decade or two ago. We watched maybe two movies on it that night and I promptly packed it up and returned it to the store. The next day I was on a mission to find my TiVo -- which I did. I go to hook it up, and of course the zipcode has changed so I have to re-run setup. I call Comcast to get the new details the TiVo requests and re-pair it or WTF they do. During this call, dude on the chat tries to upsell me the X1. I explain how I'm not eleigible. He tells me, "no my friend, the man was mistaken. I can send you. trust me my friend...." (you feeling where this is headed?) Fine. I agree. A few days later, I get the comcast "x1" (not really) box, open it up, and it's the same mo-fo box I *JUST* had and returned. Didn't even crack the plastic. There aren't words to describe the frustration. In fact I'm pretty sure I made up a few new ones in the string of profanity. So, back to the Comcast store I go to return this POS... So yeah... TiVo.... Sad. Like watching a friend who drinks themself to death. You see the writing on the wall, you try to tell them and reason with them, but they're determined "they can stop whenever they want" and keep going till one day you attend their funeral... but I digress.


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## Aaron Malloy (Oct 30, 2019)

daevid said:


> *I pay Comcast $108/mo for basic cable*...all things considered, they got us by the balls.


Oh man, that is awful. It used to be that the competing providers would keep our costs lower by having us switch from one to the other. But that would usually only last for awhile, then they didn't care about giving any more deals. Now they don't even do that. They all have those expensive sports contracts that the viewers have to pay for.


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## driverseven (Oct 11, 2007)

Old Roamio 0 said:


> The sale after Thanksgiving - I got a new tivo! Hope they last for a little longer.
> 
> As devoted as we all are to our old tivos which are/were great... I think people think nothing about buying a new cellphone every 2 or 3 years. The problem is old equipment lasts a long time. Their (the company that owns them now 's) income stream comes from patents and selling stuff and services. Old tivos don't pay bills for them.


Actually TiVo's customer base pays $150/year per device. Their business model was all about building a base of loyal customers. It's just that they can't control an essential part of the delivery: cable TV access.


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## Old Roamio 0 (Jul 19, 2020)

That's true. I guess folks are less dependent on hardware these days though then they were in the past.. Tivo is going to have it tough.
For example Channels DVR 's software that you download on computer has in its system section a TV-everywhere beta option. That (along with a HDhoerun tuner box) lets a person record some live channels off SlingTV, Philo, and YTTV onto a hard drive on the computer or some NAS brands.. It has a list of local cable-TV systems that have tv Everywhere access to their individual channels over-the-air included in their cable-tv package. I dropped cable-tv because of expense, but can't beat cable-tv for ease of enjoyment. thanks.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

A good Comcast story: Comcast just tried to raise my rate from $115 to $160/mo on the expiration of the 2 year promo I had. I called and told them no deal - do better. I explained that CenturyLink just put fiber in the street and is offering lifetime gig internet for $65. He asked me what channels are important to us so I gave him a list and also said I do NOT want to pay the $8.25++ 'sports fee' as we watch NO sports whatsoever and they're welcome to block them. It took a few minutes on hold but he came back with all the channels we want, NO sports fee and the same 200MB 'Blast' internet for $94/mo including taxes and fees. In my 20 years with Comcast this is the first time they offered me a package with all the channels I watch and agreed to eliminate the ripoff sports fee. Maybe they're finally getting the message and feeling the burn from having competition. We have Peacock Premium (free from Comcast on Roku), Amazon Prime (which we'd have anyway), Netflix for $15 and a Roku so we have more than we'd ever have time to watch. I have my own modem and router so there's no rental fees. The only thing from them is the free Cablecard for the Roamio Plus.


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## Finalrinse (Jan 13, 2005)

brobin said:


> A good Comcast story: Comcast just tried to raise my rate from $115 to $160/mo on the expiration of the 2 year promo I had. I called and told them no deal - do better. I explained that CenturyLink just put fiber in the street and is offering lifetime gig internet for $65. He asked me what channels are important to us so I gave him a list and also said I do NOT want to pay the $8.25++ 'sports fee' as we watch NO sports whatsoever and they're welcome to block them. It took a few minutes on hold but he came back with all the channels we want, NO sports fee and the same 200MB 'Blast' internet for $94/mo including taxes and fees. In my 20 years with Comcast this is the first time they offered me a package with all the channels I watch and agreed to eliminate the ripoff sports fee. Maybe they're finally getting the message and feeling the burn from having competition. We have Peacock Premium (free from Comcast on Roku), Amazon Prime (which we'd have anyway), Netflix for $15 and a Roku so we have more than we'd ever have time to watch. I have my own modem and router so there's no rental fees. The only thing from them is the free Cablecard for the Roamio Plus.


Good job! I have to call Comcast every two years myself. Always like to hear how everyone else is bargaining.


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## MrDell (Jul 8, 2012)

brobin said:


> A good Comcast story: Comcast just tried to raise my rate from $115 to $160/mo on the expiration of the 2 year promo I had. I called and told them no deal - do better. I explained that CenturyLink just put fiber in the street and is offering lifetime gig internet for $65. He asked me what channels are important to us so I gave him a list and also said I do NOT want to pay the $8.25++ 'sports fee' as we watch NO sports whatsoever and they're welcome to block them. It took a few minutes on hold but he came back with all the channels we want, NO sports fee and the same 200MB 'Blast' internet for $94/mo including taxes and fees. In my 20 years with Comcast this is the first time they offered me a package with all the channels I watch and agreed to eliminate the ripoff sports fee. Maybe they're finally getting the message and feeling the burn from having competition. We have Peacock Premium (free from Comcast on Roku), Amazon Prime (which we'd have anyway), Netflix for $15 and a Roku so we have more than we'd ever have time to watch. I have my own modem and router so there's no rental fees. The only thing from them is the free Cablecard for the Roamio Plus.


 Good for you!! My contract with Verizon is coming due in the Spring and I am tired of paying for channels that we don't watch at all... especially sports and the fees associated with it. If they won't work with me with some sort of compromise I am perfectly happy to go OTA and streaming.....purchase internet only and call it a day. There are way too many options out there to get comparable service for less money.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

brobin said:


> A good Comcast story: Comcast just tried to raise my rate from $115 to $160/mo on the expiration of the 2 year promo I had. I called and told them no deal - do better. I explained that CenturyLink just put fiber in the street and is offering lifetime gig internet for $65. He asked me what channels are important to us so I gave him a list and also said I do NOT want to pay the $8.25++ 'sports fee' as we watch NO sports whatsoever and they're welcome to block them. It took a few minutes on hold but he came back with all the channels we want, NO sports fee and the same 200MB 'Blast' internet for $94/mo including taxes and fees. In my 20 years with Comcast this is the first time they offered me a package with all the channels I watch and agreed to eliminate the ripoff sports fee. Maybe they're finally getting the message and feeling the burn from having competition. We have Peacock Premium (free from Comcast on Roku), Amazon Prime (which we'd have anyway), Netflix for $15 and a Roku so we have more than we'd ever have time to watch. I have my own modem and router so there's no rental fees. The only thing from them is the free Cablecard for the Roamio Plus.


If you have any Digital tier above Basic you're going to get the RSN fees. They may credit you back for them for a while but they're going to be on the bill.

I would be very curious to see a copy of your new bill because you got a great deal.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

brobin said:


> A good Comcast story: Comcast just tried to raise my rate from $115 to $160/mo on the expiration of the 2 year promo I had. I called and told them no deal - do better. I explained that CenturyLink just put fiber in the street and is offering lifetime gig internet for $65. He asked me what channels are important to us so I gave him a list and also said I do NOT want to pay the $8.25++ 'sports fee' as we watch NO sports whatsoever and they're welcome to block them. It took a few minutes on hold but he came back with all the channels we want, NO sports fee and the same 200MB 'Blast' internet for $94/mo including taxes and fees. In my 20 years with Comcast this is the first time they offered me a package with all the channels I watch and agreed to eliminate the ripoff sports fee. Maybe they're finally getting the message and feeling the burn from having competition. We have Peacock Premium (free from Comcast on Roku), Amazon Prime (which we'd have anyway), Netflix for $15 and a Roku so we have more than we'd ever have time to watch. I have my own modem and router so there's no rental fees. The only thing from them is the free Cablecard for the Roamio Plus.


Thanks for sharing your experience.

It would be even more helpful if you could provide your geographic location and zip code as well as more specifics on the Comcast subscription package (e.g., which CATV service tier or specific channels/packs are included). Without those details it is very difficult to accurately assess the value or its applicability to other users.

Also, watch your billing statements for the next couple of months in order to verify the accuracy of what the CSR told you regarding fees and terms. At the least, you should have received an email from Comcast with a summary of what you were signing up for.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

slowbiscuit said:


> If you have any Digital tier above Basic you're going to get the RSN fees. They may credit you back for them for a while but they're going to be on the bill.
> 
> I would be very curious to see a copy of your new bill because you got a great deal.


I did review the charges online to activate the new deal and I'll be happy to post a copy of the new bill when it's available. 
It's the Basic package w/HD but has more channels than it used to. The internet is their Blast 200 tier and is $83 as a standalone so the TV only adds $11. This is still cheaper than the CenturyLink internet plus the non-OTA channels that we get with Basic.
The $94 rate is actually $104 less a $10 monthly credit for online billing and auto-pay. It's a 1 year deal then I'll have to do the dance again! I'm in Naples FL. 
I went through the channels in our favorites list to see if anything went missing and we did lose SCI and CNBC neither of which is important to us and both can be streamed.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

brobin said:


> I did review the charges online to activate the new deal and I'll be happy to post a copy of the new bill when it's available.
> It's the Basic package w/HD but has more channels than it used to. The internet is their Blast 200 tier and is $83 as a standalone so the TV only adds $11. This is still cheaper than the CenturyLink internet plus the non-OTA channels that we get with Basic.
> The $94 rate is actually $104 less a $10 monthly credit for online billing and auto-pay. It's a 1 year deal then I'll have to do the dance again! I'm in Naples FL.
> I went through the channels in our favorites list to see if anything went missing and we did lose SCI and CNBC neither of which is important to us and both can be streamed.


The going rate for that plan (Basic CATV + Blast! HSI) is $55 after discounts with a 12-month agreement ($65 w/o agreement). Taxes and fees (Basic CATV should NOT incur the RSN fee) will add approx. $25 for a total of around $80 (this is w/o rental equipment or other add-ons). You *might* get a $7.50 COE credit (depending on the vagaries of your billing structure) to further reduce the monthly total to around $73 ($83 w/o agreement). This is just a rough estimate, but I don't see how the CSR could quote you as much as $94 unless you are not signing an agreement and he did not include the COE credit.

You could reduce the MRC by another $10 for the first 12 months if you maintain an Xfinity Mobile cell phone line. If you are activating XM service for the first time, you could also qualify for a $250 Visa Prepaid Card with your new bundle.

And since you previously mentioned Peacock Premium, note that your new bundle does qualify you for free access to Peacock Premium. If you were to drop the HSI service, then Premium would become a $5 p.m. upgrade since Basic alone does not qualify you for this bennie.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks for that info! I've found that the pricing varies by market but I'll look into what you found once I see my actual new bill. Some of the promo rates are only for new customers. What's interesting is that I have a lot more channels than what Basic offers so I'm not sure just what I have till the next bill drops. When I check the account online it doesn't look like it's updated yet.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I've always been able to get the new customer rate promos with a contract renewal, YMMV.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

brobin said:


> Thanks for that info! I've found that the pricing varies by market but I'll look into what you found once I see my actual new bill. Some of the promo rates are only for new customers. What's interesting is that I have a lot more channels than what Basic offers so I'm not sure just what I have till the next bill drops. When I check the account online it doesn't look like it's updated yet.


The pricing does indeed vary from region to region, but the prices I quoted you are from your geographic market (Naples, FL). The only items I can not accurately predict are the local taxes and pass-on governmental fees that apply in your jurisdiction.

Furthermore, as slowbiscuit just posted, you can take that "for new customers only" proviso with a grain of salt. In my experience, anyone can get most (if not all) of those promos if you ask for them--with a bit of occasional persistence.

On-line account information (whether at the web site or on the mobile app) does lag, and most of the detailed billing information only pertains to the most recent monthly statement. For up-to-date status your best bet is to talk to a CSR on the phone or by chat. If I were you I would call up right away and clear up any confusion rather than wait to be (possibly unpleasantly) surprised. But then, I am anal about such things.


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## brobin (Feb 14, 2014)

Thanks, I'll give them a call in a few days when the new bill is available.


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