# Slow



## alek (May 22, 2008)

Some times when in now playing, I select a program to watch and tivo switches to the screen with clouds passing and just sits there sometimes for minutes and then goes on as normal.

Is this a sign of impending doom ?

Alek


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Depends a bit on your Tivo set up. 

If you've upgraded your Tivo to a larger disk then it will probably have more entries in Now Playing than it is designed to cope with. The best solution to this is to install a cachecard with RAM in it. That allows the main database in fast memory and speeds up response. It is reasonably expensive and you may find it more economic to buy a lifetime subbed second hand Tivo with one fitted already.

I recently lost my cachecard drivers for a couple of days and was very surprised by how slow the interface was without it - I have a 400GB drive (10x the original capacity).

"Minutes" would worry me though.

If you have an unexpanded Tivo then I would be expecting a disk failure at some point based purely on age and this might be an indication.

If you search for 'backdoors' on here you will find a way to access the logs on a non networked Tivo. That might give you a clue if your Tivo doesn't have an additional network card installed.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

This happens on my expanded (200Gb) unit, too sometimes. I don't have a chachecard though; only a TurboNet card. You just have to live with it


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

Its a totally standard one with lifetime sub.


alek


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

If you are still using a 10 year old hard disk, I would order a nice new 250GB one ASAP!


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

cwaring said:


> This happens on my expanded (200Gb) unit, too sometimes. I don't have a chachecard though; only a TurboNet card. You just have to live with it


This occasionally happens with my 205GB Tivo, and I DO have a cachecard


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

alek said:


> Some times when in now playing, I select a program to watch and tivo switches to the screen with clouds passing and just sits there sometimes for minutes and then goes on as normal.
> 
> Is this a sign of impending doom ?


If your Tivo hasn't been switched off in a very long time then this can sometimes happen.

I reboot mine once a day on a Timer that switches it off for three minutes at 5am. As a result I no longer see these kind of unexpectedly lengthy Tivo menu delays

If your hard drive is failing you would be more likely to see some kind of occasional picture break up or stuttering while watching some of your recordings that are on the faulty part of the hard drive(s).


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

It hasn't been switched off for months maybe a year.



alek


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

alek said:


> It hasn't been switched off for months maybe a year.


Then try turning it off for five minutes at least once a month and most of these problems will probably go away.


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## alek (May 22, 2008)

OK thanks, that's quite an inexpensive solution, I hope it works.




alek


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Be warned that most hard drives die on power up - that's not the same as powering them off and necessarily kills them, but there is a risk that one day you'll turn it off and it won't come back.
I would try a soft restart (from the recorder setup menus) in preference to pulling the plug.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

AMc said:


> Be warned that most hard drives die on power up - that's not the same as powering them off and necessarily kills them, but there is a risk that one day you'll turn it off and it won't come back.
> I would try a soft restart (from the recorder setup menus) in preference to pulling the plug.


My two Samsung HA250JC 250Gb Tivo drives have been rebooted every day for over three years by a timer that turns the Tivo off at 5am for five minutes and are still going strong. The drives themselves are now just over four and a half years old.

In my experience hard drives are mainly killed by being dropped or bashed while powered up. All my short lived hard drives have been inside notebook PCs rather than in a fixed Tivo or desktop PC that is not subject to these hazardous movements while the hard drive is in operation.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

And when those Samsungs eventually die, I bet you a fiver it will be when that power cycle happens, not during the day.

I'm not sure power cycling reduces drive lifespan (though it would seem likely that it would), but it's undoubtedly when most stress is on the system and so when it's most likely to fail


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> I'm not sure power cycling reduces drive lifespan (though it would seem likely that it would), but it's undoubtedly when most stress is on the system and so when it's most likely to fail


On the other hand I believe the in built smart error checking and marking of blocks as bad on modern hard drives only takes place when they are power cycled. Hence if they are never powered down the drive may continue to keep attempting to write to its failing sectors.

I find myself in the mikerr camp on this question but others may well prefer to side with the blindlemon faction.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Lol - camps and factions? 

PC drives are designed to spin up and spin down many times over their lifespan.
Any idea how often a PC drive is turned on and off per month?

Leave it on, or turn if off every night, makes no real odds.

Its not uncommon for many settop boxes to freeze up, and the only way of fixing is to pull the plug. Without a timeswitch, that means you will come home from a holiday to see 2 weeks of recordings of a frozen screen ...

I don't advocate continuously switching on and off at the plug though!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> I don't advocate continuously switching on and off at the plug though!


What is your definition of continuously though Mike?

I assume that once per day on a timer for five minutes does not count as being "continuously" and that you are referring to power cycling the unit once every few minutes? Offhand I can't think why anyone would do that though and usually only an unreliable mains supply would cause such frequent rebooting.

Before both my Sky box and Tivo box were powered down once per day I did indeed sometimes come back from several days away to find a number of failed recordings. I have also found that transmission of channel change requests through the IR wands remains far more reliable and less inclined to do odd things if the Tivo unit and Sky box are fully power cycled once per day. Obviously I advocate using a timer to do this and carrying it out in the early hours of the morning (especially 3am to 6am) where it is rare for anything worth recording to be on air.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

There are three types of stress involved in switching a drive on and off ...

*Mechanical Stress*


Head movement is unlikely to be a much of a problem nowadays, even with the 'emergency head park' when the power is cut, although (years ago) I think some IBM drives used to jam their heads in the parked position.

I suppose that related changes in spindle lubrication might induce drive vibration and wear over a period.
*Power-Surge*


Potentially, switching on the power could cause a power-surge, but modern electronics shouldn't be an issue with this. However, rapid switching on and off might just induce a problem, and I never switch equipment back on in less than 10 seconds.
*Heat Stress*


This is the most likely stress, due to the large difference between the normal drive operating temperature and room temperature. However, switching a drive on and off within a few minutes will not involve a temperature change, and so won't be an issue.

Larger heat changes may affect the lubrication, and so contribute to mechanical wear.
Although I always recommended keeping drives switched on, I'm not sure that makes any difference nowadays. With longer switch-offs, the greater risk of heat-induced wear is more than likely to be countered by reduced running-time.

Personally, I now favour the 5400rpm Western-Digital 'green' drives, since they run much cooler and quieter, and so are less prone to heat or mechanical stress. They are certainly more than enough to handle simultaneous recording of two SD streams, one HD stream, and independent playback of three different recordings on my Media Center, so why would I want to use 7200rpm drives.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I am pleased to hear that you do not therefore seem to believe that my policy of turning my Tivo drives off once a day is likely to be causing significant additional stress since they are off for long enough to avoid any mains surge or other hard drive shock from a rapid re-start but not off for long enough for the drives to cool down significantly.

I do not ever turn off my domestic fridge or freezer because there is no possible benefit in doing so, although their compressors do nonetheless go through their own on/off cycles every 20 minutes or so and have been doing so for all of the last 19 years without any incidence of mechanical failure (they are both built in products in the Neff range).


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> I do not ever turn off my domestic fridge or freezer because there is no possible benefit in doing so, although their compressors do nonetheless go through their own on/off cycles every 20 minutes or so and have been doing so for all of the last 19 years without any incidence of mechanical failure (they are both built in products in the Neff range).


Compressors are very different, all the moving parts are immersed in oil, thus no chance of ever running dry or gumming up.

This is why you must never run a fridge/freezer if it has been off and left on its side for a while. You must wait a couple of hours for all the oil to run back to the bottom.


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