# Survivor - 5/13/2007 - spoilers



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I'm at my mom's house and I have to watch live TV. Crap! At least I can watch the first broadcast and don't have to wait for the west coast feed.

Yay Yao! I really hope he wins. Yao should keep Cassandra around as long as he can.


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## cditty (Jun 8, 2003)

Hope Yao gets it, but I doubt it.

I am betting that Dreamz goes against his word with Yao.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

First hour over. Dreamz wins Immunity. The way I see, you want to take Cassandra no matter what. She is pretty worthless playing the game. So A) Dreamz gives Yao Immunity, then has to face Yao in the final. or B) Dreamz doesn't give Yao Immunity, and looks like a scumbag to the jury.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

B

How could he not know that by going back on his word he pretty much forfeits and chance at winning anyway? And why didn't someone point that out at some point?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"My name is Dreamz because I believe in Dreams and that every person is special and can make a difference and I want my son to look up to me and blah blah blah......."

"Dreamz, do you want to give Yao Immunity or do you want to keep it?"
"I'm gonna keep it."

SCUMBAG


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Omg!


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## cditty (Jun 8, 2003)

Yup. Wonder how this will play out in the jury.


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

double whammy...

He went back on his word and voted for Yao.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Prediction - Earl wins unanimously.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Earl voted Yao out, which is kind of bad. But he did it because he thinks he has a better chance at winning against a lump of wood and a liar than against a lump of wood and Yao.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

You have to wonder what Dreamz' thought process was. Either way, he's got no chance to win the million. Maybe he figured that the 50K for third place was worth looking like a scumbag to millions of people?


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

mcb08 said:


> Prediction - Earl wins unanimously.


Hoping for the following from the Jurors:

Casandra - You are a useless contestant. You have won no challenges and did not scheme any more than "Who are voting out?"

Dreamz - You just commited the ulitmate betrayel. The is no way I could ever vote for someone like you.

Earl - Enjoy your Million Dollars


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

So was the vote 3-1 for Yau-Man? Earl voted for him too.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Dreamz just demonstrated exactly what he's made of: he's a despicable person with no heart. Not only has he destroyed ANY chance he had at winning a million (none of the "4 horseman" will vote for him, and probably nobody else either), he's lost all goodwill from America in general. And he's keeping a truck he DOESN'T DESERVE. If he did keep his word, he could have had a lot of opportunities in his life/career after the game.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

scottykempf said:


> Earl voted Yao out, which is kind of bad. But he did it because he thinks he has a better chance at winning against a lump of wood and a liar than against a lump of wood and Yao.


Plus Yao is a guarenteed vote for Earl. Dreamz and Cassandra was not.


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## TivoSlinger (Oct 28, 2005)

Earl should have voted for Cassandra. Then we would have a tie-breaker. He would have kept his word to Yau and let fate decide the final 3.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I'm also hoping Earl wins the million. Cassandra didn't do anything. Dreamz didn't keep his word and that shows everything I needed to see about his character.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Dreamz speech to the jury: "I played this game with integrity.......oh sh#t!"


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

If Earl doesn't win it will be the shock of the century.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Agreed with all of the bad thoughts about Dreamz. He screwed himself as he had to know that the Jury was going to look at his move as completely classless, especially since they *knew* of the deal he had made.

The difference between 3rd and 4th place isn't that much, but hopefully he'll choke on every dime of it and lose 99% of it to the tax man to pay for taxes on the truck.

I can't figure out why Dreamz couldn't flip the situation with Yau by telling him that he'd make good on his word *if* Yau would promise not to vote for him. Yes, he'd have been changing his deal, but I'd have to think that change would have been more understandable than just completely going back on your word.

Earl played a good game, I expect he'll win it, but I almost hope he doesn't just because he did screw over Yau (which he hinted at doing in the prior vote when Yau was talking with him about possibly needing the hidden idol that Earl had found with Yau's help).


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Dreamz biggest problem is that he has presented himself through the whole game as someone who has had a hard life, but he has stayed positive through bad times and that he has character. By crossing Yao, he took a huge steaming dump on that image.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Whos worse, Dreamz or Earl? The lesser evil gets a million dollars.



> The difference between 3rd and 4th place isn't that much, but hopefully he'll choke on every dime of it and lose 99% of it to the tax man to pay for taxes on the truck.


I hope Dreamz has $15000-$20000 to pay the taxman IMMEDIATELY.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Ooooh, nice the Edguardo and Mookie nailed Dreamz on his betrayal. Excellent chance to catch Dreamz by asking Earl the question on who told him that Mookie had that idol.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

Alex is freaking out! I didn't have much respect for him before, wow....... piece of work!


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Lisi is a loony! Alex should be telling Lisi to shut up.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

TomK said:


> Lisi is a loony! Alex should be telling Lisi to shut up.


I can get behind that!


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

TomK said:


> Lisi is a loony! Alex should be telling Lisi to shut up.


Typical Jury "How dare you play the game" self rightousness. Get over it, you lost.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

How many zeros in a million?
She's quite the nutball. I wonder if she shows at the reveal show.


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## cditty (Jun 8, 2003)

I still predict Earl.

Nice to see a mean vindictive jury again.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Suddenly Dreamz was "playing the game the whole time"  

Bull $#!+


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

What a freaky girls he is!

I'm not a religious person at all, but Boo's turn at Dreamz was spot on and between him and Yau I think it was very clear that Dreamz made that deal with Yau knowing he wouldn't follow through on it.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Too bad they have all the footage of him saying how he needed to stay to his word so he didn't look like a bad role model for his son. This just proves that greed and money corrupts over fundamental values.


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Plus Dreamz HAD to know when he did that, that he was sealing his fate. I would be surprised if he gets a single vote on the jury.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

"THIS CHRISTIAN IS NOT FOR SALE!"

(appearing tomorrow on Christian t-shirts everywhere.)


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

woohoo Earl!!


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Unanimous!


Lisi, how many o's in looney?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Earl received ALL 9 votes, the first time in Survivor history.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Well deserved, Earl!


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## TivoSlinger (Oct 28, 2005)

A clean sweep!


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## aus1ander (Sep 17, 2004)

Just as I suspected. Dreamz didn't have any chance, and he compromised his values for NOTHING. I hope he enjoys paying taxes on that truck.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I wonder if Dreamz will offer the truck back to Yao.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Ok, so we all pretty much knew that Earl was gonna get all of the votes (as he did), but the question is what do we expect would have happened if it had been Earl and Yau together there with Cassandra?

Would the vote have split at all, would Yau have won it just as easily as Earl did against Cassandra and Dreamz?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Heres hoping no one says "I understand what Dreamz did. He was only playing the game." Forgive, maybe. But don't rationalize what he did.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Kablemodem said:


> Unanimous!
> 
> Lisi, how many o's in looney?


L.....M.......A.......O


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

I think after the jury got their chance to talk, Cassandra seemed surprised to me.


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

People sure do clean up well.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Whoa! Probst actually asked the question I asked and we got the 'what if?' answer. Yau would have won. It comes down to that.


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## cditty (Jun 8, 2003)

It's amazing what a little soap and water can do.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

Earl looks pretty different to me. He looks much younger without the beard.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

I love when Earl said he knew he won when Dreamz renegged and Jeff saved Earl from having to say that Cassanda had no chance because she was a waste of a spot on the show.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

mcb08 said:


> Prediction - Earl wins unanimously.


That's a no brainer. All Dreamz did was give the money to earl instead of Yao. Cassandra never had a chance and after betraying Yao, Dreamz has no chance either. There isn't a decision to make after that.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

I was impressed as heck with Yau asking Earl "why did you vote me out?" and Earl's honest answer of "because I couldn't win against you"

That's yet another reason Earl was able to win with a sweep.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

I don't think that Jeff likes Dreamz very much.

So where does Dreamz rate in the worst Survivors ever?


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## RobertE (Aug 24, 2004)

TomK said:


> Lisi is a loony! Alex should be telling Lisi to shut up.


OMG, did Lisi get whacked in the head with a coconut or did she find some local "herb" out there on the island.

Asking Cassandra about shoes? 

The looks on Alex & Jeffs faces when she was rambling. - Priceless


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## RobertE (Aug 24, 2004)

RBlount said:


> I don't think that Jeff likes Dreamz very much.
> 
> So where does Dreamz rate in the worst Survivors ever?


Either dead last or first depending on how you want to rate it.


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## Cragmyre (Mar 8, 2004)

I loved, during the reunion show, when they showed the truck deal again, and everyone was boo'ing Dreamz, and Boo takes a little bow


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Dreamz: " I swear to God."

Dreamz, what are you going to say to your son now? It's okay, if you're in a game, you can lie, even swear on God's name. Just as long as you win." Dreamz wasn't totally wrong, in a game you can do a lot of things. But to say that you swear to God, and then go back on that, God isn't going to say, "Hey, it was just a game."


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

DANG.... who is that sitting behind Alex?????? That's very distracting, even to me as a woman!


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## TomK (May 22, 2001)

Sadara said:


> DANG.... who is that sitting behind Alex?????? That's very distracting, even to me as a woman!


The Letterman studio is notoriously cold.


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Jeff: "Aw, nice comment. I got it." What was the coment??????


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

TomK said:


> The Letterman studio is notoriously cold.


lol, I can see that!


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

scottykempf said:


> Earl voted Yao out, which is kind of bad. But he did it because he thinks he has a better chance at winning against a lump of wood and a liar than against a lump of wood and Yao.


By not voting Yau out, you have a tie, and stand a chance of not making it to the final three.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

scottykempf said:


> Jeff: "Aw, nice comment. I got it." What was the coment??????


I wondered that too.

I am glad that Earl won, but sorry that Yau man didn't make it further and could have won or at least gotten more money (how much does he get as #4 and how much does dreamz get as a final 3?). Sorry that Cassandra got as far as she did.

I really laughed at Jeff's comment to the cameras after listening to Dreamz ramble and slide around really answering the question, Jeff said "this is why tribal council's took so long...."

Dreamz -you suck! Yau man- You should have won!


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Dreamz didn't improve his image at all when answering those questions. He seemed like he was making it all up, fumbling for an answer that made him look good.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> How many zeros in a million?
> She's quite the nutball. I wonder if she shows at the reveal show.


I am firmly convinced Lisi didn't know the answer herself, and had to look to the jury to see if Dreamz was right!


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Kablemodem said:


> Earl looks pretty different to me. He looks much younger without the beard.


He looks like he put on some weight, too. I alway thought he had a prominent chin, but that beard makes him look completely different.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Cragmyre said:


> I loved, during the reunion show, when they showed the truck deal again, and everyone was boo'ing Dreamz, and Boo takes a little bow


 

How sad - I just got that . I didn't have a clue earlier why Boo was waving to the audience!


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I love Survivor, but I hate hate hate HATE final Tribal Councils when the jury gets all self-righteous (and loony). I seriously almost want to FF through it all because it irritates me so much. These have all been mentioned, but seriously--what was up with all Boo's Christian talk? And Lisi and the shoes? And Alex wigging out? I can't stand all that crap. And Cassandra is just so useless. She had the same stupid look on her face the whole time and you could tell she had nothing to say.

And I'm also tired of the 3-person finale. Bring back the two person finale where someone has to decide who to kick out. Much better. And has there ever been three good finalists?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jenhudson said:


> And I'm also tired of the 3-person finale. Bring back the two person finale where someone has to decide who to kick out. Much better. And has there ever been three good finalists?


Yes, I agree! I found the three person finale interesting....once.


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> I was impressed as heck with Yau asking Earl "why did you vote me out?" and Earl's honest answer of "because I couldn't win against you"
> 
> That's yet another reason Earl was able to win with a sweep.


Same here.

Like it was said before, Dreamz renegged on his promise with Yau Man for nothing......zilch!!!!!! In that situation, how could any one think they could win a million dollars for going back on your word?? Stupid.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Yau played cleanest game but Dreamz "outwitted him" (debate on if it was his plan all along) and that was the only time Yau misplayed,which is unfortunate because he is one of the top players in my book.

Also it seemed that the jury questioning was so unorganized as compared to when I watched long ago. Granted I have not watched for seasons, but has it been this bad the past few years? Not the loonyness of the questions, but just the whole let me ask a question, follow up, then ask another play a totally different question. I thought years past was you get one question and it can be to both players or only the one and that is all.

Last thing is this is my first time seeing it with 3 finalists and I like it as before with two you could easily choose the worst player out of the remaining that would seal the deal for you (unless you are Colby choosing Tina) with the final 3, even though it didn't play out this season, there is the chance that you have the one player there that you don't want. Example would be if it was Earl, Yau and say Cassandra for final three. If it went to finals it would have been Casandra vs. Earl or Yau as both those players know they could beat Cassandra with jury, but with jury voting on final 3 it could have been a coin toss on who won between Yau and Earl (at the point before the reunion show that is)


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## DLL66 (Oct 21, 2002)

TomK said:


> The Letterman studio is notoriously cold.


 :up: Not distracting to me at all!!!!


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

My only complaint about the show going to a final 3 instead of a 2 is that if that is the way they want to play it out they really, really should keep the hidden idol in play until the vote to go to 3. I know that it could play out to the same way that things used to play out, but then again with 2 idols and 4 people, there are still 2 people to vote against, and there's absolutely no guarantee that the hidden idol is found and could even be played.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

bdowell said:


> My only complaint about the show going to a final 3 instead of a 2 is that ...


Also it seems that most survivors were under the impression it was going to jury voting on final 2. It needs to said before hand to have strategies certain ways.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Einselen said:


> Also it seems that most survivors were under the impression it was going to jury voting on final 2. It needs to said before hand to have strategies certain ways.


I have mixed feelings on that part. I agree it changes the strategies that might get used, and would be good to know from that point of view, but I actually prefer a little more unpredictability (outside of the hidden idol and the regular idol).

I suppose they could do some sort of absolute random luck challenge, dice throw, spin, etc., that would determine if they take 3 or 2 just to keep it a mystery up to the end, but if things are too predictable than it gets very boring to watch.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

No one was asked to say why they should win and the others shouldn't. Maybe it just wasn't necessary.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

bdowell said:


> I have mixed feelings on that part. I agree it changes the strategies that might get used, and would be good to know from that point of view, but I actually prefer a little more unpredictability (outside of the hidden idol and the regular idol).
> 
> I suppose they could do some sort of absolute random luck challenge, dice throw, spin, etc., that would determine if they take 3 or 2 just to keep it a mystery up to the end, but if things are too predictable than it gets very boring to watch.


That is a valid point, but in all fairness to get that far in the game I think this is one of the things that need to be said upfront. The twist and turns in the middle are part of the game, but to have a "twist" near the end in the last few days I think isn't too fair, but you know what, MB is calling the shots and he knows how to do it seeing how survivor is going on the 15th season.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Sadara said:


> DANG.... who is that sitting behind Alex?????? That's very distracting, even to me as a woman!


For those wondering it was Rita and she is single, however she does have a couple of rugrats, but those looked nice, here is hoping for Playboy, but I think we have seen as much of the twins tonight as what we would see in the mag.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Random thoughts; I still haven't seen the Reunion show, needed to watch Sopranos :up: 

We've had two seasons with three finalists. Both times there was one person who was a lump of coal. I think this is skewing the effect the producers are looking for. OTOH, I think you will almost always have one of the three (or possibly two, like this year) be a non-factor, because the stronger players who make it to the end will intentionally drag along a Cassandra, knowing how good it makes them look. I think we need one more season with three finalists to determine if it is truly a failure.

Who is 2nd/3rd? Since both Dreamz & Cassandra rec'd zero votes, how will they decide?

The difference between 3rd & 4th is $15,000. Dreamz sold his soul, and showed ten million people what kind of character he has, for a lousy 15K.

Prize money:
1st -- $1,000,000
2nd -- $100,000
3rd -- $85,000
4th -- $70,000
5th -- $60,000
6th -- $50,000

Yao will be known as the greatest player to not win. Not much consolation for losing a million bucks though  

And I don't see it as Yao being outplayed. He had nothing to lose by trying the truck flip. He didn't need it, and it was a heck of a ploy. I think the money he would get from selling the truck was not even on his mind.

Great season. Started slow, then became the first season I actively complained about. Did a 180 flip when the mixed the tribes, and became one of the best seasons.

What's next . . .?


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

Usually 2nd and 3rd place get fairly large prizes too, and of course the second place prize is larger than the third place prize. So I wonder how they'll handle that? It would have been easy enough if the losers had gotten some votes too, but they didn't. Maybe they'll lump the prizes together and split it equally. 

Regardless, I'm not real happy about Cassandra or Dreamz getting any kind of prize at all. 

Edit: Oops, reference Astrohip's post above regarding the different prizes. Funny how we were both thinking of this at the same time!


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## lodica1967 (Aug 5, 2003)

Dreamz is going to get so much hate mail! I was surprised he changed his mind. His promise seemed genuine to me. I don't believe for one minute that he planned all along to go back on the deal. 

I wonder what would have really happened in Yao and Earl had gone up against each other and had a chance to answer the jury questions? Would Yao still have won? Probably.

I hate that Dreamz gets to keep the 60k truck and that Yao forgives him!!


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

My guess on the 2nd and 3rd place issue is that the combine the money for 2nd and 3rd and then evenly split it between both of the runner up players since there was no clear cut runner up otherwise.

Either way Dreamz got more than he should have and should have difficulty sleeping every nite.


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Who is 2nd/3rd? Since both Dreamz & Cassandra rec'd zero votes, how will they decide?
> 
> The difference between 3rd & 4th is $15,000. Dreamz sold his soul, and showed ten million people what kind of character he has, for a lousy 15K.
> 
> ...


My guess is they'll split the 2nd & 3rd prize money between Dreamz and Cassandra. So they'll each get $92,500.

4th isn't too bad though, money-wise... I don't feel as bad for Yau now. The ONLY way he could possibly have won is if he won the last immunity challenge, deal or no deal with Dreamz. That was the most important thing he had to do for the million and he couldn't quite come through. I was puling for him as most people were, though.

Earl did play the game brilliantly, so I'm glad he won.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I was howling at Lisi's zero question, and laughed even more when Dreamz got it wrong, and cmplained that he was smart. And what was with Cassandra? Is she really that arrogant that she thought she played a good enough game to get the million?


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

astrohip said:


> And I don't see it as Yao being outplayed.


This is true. I forgot that at the point I.I. were no longer valid/in play and it is not like when Earl fell off the platform he gave up thinking Dreamz would give him immunity, Yau kept going as immunity in hand is better then relying on someone's word.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

astrohip said:


> The difference between 3rd & 4th is $15,000. Dreamz sold his soul, and showed ten million people what kind of character he has, for a lousy 15K.


I don't blame Dreamz for his move (in a mathematical sense, ethics, man of words, promises may be different).

If Dreamz gave up immunity he would have 100% chance of getting $70,000. No doubt in anyone's mind that he would be voted out. If he kept immunity he had 1/3 chance at $1,000,000, 1/3 chance at $100,000 and 1/3 chance at $85,000 (not taking in account of prediction of votes, just straight odds) making his expected value $395,000. That right there is a difference of $325,000. However to use this math in a one time situation is not as effective as a repeated game.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

lodica1967 said:


> I hate that Dreamz gets to keep the 60k truck and that Yao forgives him!!


Yau is a bigger man. Yau has had more life experiences (with age) and I think Yau felt good to give the truck anyway. He tried to play strategy with the donation and unfortunately it did not work out for him, but Yau is one of the best players of the game.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

What I find amazing is Earl watched maybe the first season of Survivor and that is it and still won. Besides Yau, Earl is one of the top players in terms of the entire game and he didn't have the years of previous seasons to go off of (which maybe is what helped him so much, clean slate and setting up your own strategy rather then trying to copy someone else's). Also what is amazing is Earl was notified two days prior to arriving. Does anyone know why the short notice for Earl? I know we had one player drop out last second and thus having 19 rather then 20 to being with, but why was Earl in so late?


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

Philosofy said:


> I was howling at Lisi's zero question, and laughed even more when Dreamz got it wrong, and cmplained that he was smart.


What did Dreamz say? I thought he said six, but I might have missed something.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

Marc said:


> What did Dreamz say? I thought he said six, but I might have missed something.


I heard six the first time as well.

A fitting finale to one of the best seasons in years. I was literally shocked when Dreamz didn't give it to Yao. But you have to admire Yao: he didn't need the truck, so he took a calculated risk. It didn't pay off, but he's still the best to ever play the game, and he's sure to earn a spot in the next all-star edition (if there is one).

Now, the only thing that would make this more perfect would be if Dreamz were to total the truck immediately after driving off the lot.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> I was howling at Lisi's zero question, and laughed even more when Dreamz got it wrong, and cmplained that he was smart.


Uh...Dreamz got it right. There are six zeros in 1,000,000 dollars.

Maybe we should be howling at you.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Einselen said:


> I don't blame Dreamz for his move (in a mathematical sense, ethics, man of words, promises may be different).
> 
> If Dreamz gave up immunity he would have 100% chance of getting $70,000. No doubt in anyone's mind that he would be voted out. If he kept immunity he had 1/3 chance at $1,000,000, 1/3 chance at $100,000 and 1/3 chance at $85,000 (not taking in account of prediction of votes, just straight odds)...


Those numbers are only meaningful if the decision is made by random chance. There is no way to compute odds without figuring on the likelihood of votes.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

lodica1967 said:


> I hate that Dreamz gets to keep the 60k truck and that Yao forgives him!!


Good for Yau. I'm sure even Boo was proud of such a Christian move.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

hefe said:


> Those numbers are only meaningful if the decision is made by random chance. There is no way to compute odds without figuring on the likelihood of votes.


Agreed that is it fudged math, but to even do simpler terms EV w/immunity>EV w/o immunity. Now selling the fact that you are dishonest is a whole other variable.

I actually am glad Dreamz did keep immunity though cause it added one last little twist into the show. However, it may have been more interesting it it was Earl, Yau, Cassandra in the final 3 because once Dreamz kept immunity I knew whoever survived between Earl and Yau had the million wrapped up in a nice little package for them.


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

I agree with everything that's been said. 

But also thought that if Dreamz had given up the II, he would have lost the respect of the jury as well (just the looks on their faces at the idea that he might gave that away). I figured that his only chance to earn any "respect" for game play would be to keep the idol. 

But then you've got the other side...he didn't stand a chance at $1,000,000 either way, and he couldn't possibly have thought that he did! I don't buy for a second that he planned to deceive Yau with the truck deal. I thought he made himself look worse by saying that he did.

I was mad at Earl for voting Yau instead of Cassandra, but it was a good move on his part. I just thought that Dreamz, Earl and Yau should have come to an agreement to vote Cassandra either way that the II was played, then let the jury decide. 

I'm really tired of the self-righteous crap at the final TC too. I can't imagine that these people have been stewing all the time that they've been off as the jury and not seeing the game for what it is. I wonder if the producers rile them up beforehand, or if they're offered extra incentive to "make TC interesting".

Last thought/question: During the reunion show, Jeff told Dreamz that he'd affected 3 people's lives...that he'd taken 1mil from himself, and from Yau, and given it to Earl. I get the Yau/Earl part, but how on Earth does Jeff think that Dreamz was ever close to having a million to give up?!?


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

bdowell said:


> Whoa! Probst actually asked the question I asked and we got the 'what if?' answer. Yau would have won. It comes down to that.


I'm thinking that it's possible Yau-Man could have won if he only didn't try to go for the almost sure thing.

If Yau-Man had tried to get everyone to vote Cassandra out, Earl might have been convinced to do that. Instead, Yau-Man told everyone to vote out Dreamz. Dreamz was then faced with knowing that he would have been voted out had he given up the Individual Immunity.

If Cassandra had been the suggested target, Dreamz might have voted for her as a way to honor Yau-Man's request that Dreamz not vote for him should Dreamz renege on the deal. Earl might have voted for Cassandra out of loyalty to Yau Man.

If the final three had been Earl, Dreamz, and Yau-Mau; I think that Yau-Man would have won.


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

spikedavis said:


> Uh...Dreamz got it right. There are six zeros in 1,000,000 dollars.
> 
> Maybe we should be howling at you.


No there are eight zeroes in $1,000,000.00 - Plus there's a dollar sign, two commas, and a decimal point.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I knew that Dreamz wasn't going to give up immunity as soon as he won it. If he had really wanted Yao to have immunity, he would have dropped out of the challenge as soon as Earl did so he wouldn't have time to talk himself out of it, but when he held out until Yao fell, I knew that he wouldn't give it up.

His rewriting of history to say that he was planning on keeping it all along is just bull. If that were the case, he wouldn't have said the things he did in confessional.


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## Knives of Ice (Nov 8, 2006)

i loved what Dreamz did, at least it made for a good tv show. who cares about any of the ethics involved he was smart to do what he did anyone who thinks otherwise is an insane as the jury members who get all self righteous yelling at the finalists. dreamz did whatever he had to do to stay in the game as long as he could and thats exactly what you should do in survivor. 

bring back johnny fairplay !!!


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

I still think Dreamz is an idiot, and that Yao-Man blew it by not promising to NOT vote for him. By not getting Yao-Man's vote Dreamz was guaranteed at least a tie. Then he'd have a chance at the final 3 AND a chance at winning. By being a jackoff on TV he lost all chance. He didn't play smart if he thought that move would help him win. I got worried he wouldn't hand it over when he held on to the end in the final challenge. If he planned to give it away, when it was just him and Yao-Man he could have let go, giving Yao-Man the immunity. 

Yao-Man blew it by not sweetening the deal at the end. Especially when Dreamz said over and over he knew he was out if he gave up immunity. Yao-Man could have told him he would not vote for him, giving Dreamz a way out.

I usually FFWD through most of the jury badgering, but I had to watch the Dreamz bashing.

All that said, I don't have a problem with Earl winning. Compared to the other 2 he was the one to vote for. I'd have been much happier with Yao-Man though.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Let me join the chorus saying that Dreamz sucks. I was not all that surprised he kept the immunity, but for him to say he had a plan all along is tough for me to beleive. He consistently waffled on just about every strategy with little apparent thought. He had all teh confessionals where he talked about struggling with the decision, why lie to teh cameraman?

I was rooting for Yau. Too bad he did not win, but I am OK with Earl winning too.


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## mitchb2 (Sep 30, 2000)

Dreamz will be too stupid to pay taxes on the truck, and end up sharing a cell with Richard Hatch.

Besides, he can't even put gas in that thing.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I was howling at Lisi's zero question, and laughed even more when Dreamz got it wrong, and cmplained that he was smart. And what was with Cassandra? Is she really that arrogant that she thought she played a good enough game to get the million?


*HOWL!!!!*

Hey Phil... you realize that there are in fact 6 zeros in 1 million, right?

I thought it was the best when Lisi thought that he got it wrong and then turned to the jury and saw them nodding and realized that he actually was correct.

Lisi = nutjob.  
Alex = in need of some therapy.  
Boo = I was unaware that it was Survivor "Christian"  
Michelle = What a cutie - great attitude the whole way through
Stacy = good for figuring out how big of a ***** you were that people just flat out hated you
Dreamz = Dude... keep proclaiming that it was all 100% strategy and that you weren't making it up as you went along. The only person you'll be able to convice is yourself anyways.
Cassandra = this is what happens when your biggest strategy is "I talk to people and open up to them". Play that game you moron
Rocky = Best questions of the final Tribal - great job on realizing the "game" :up: 
Earl = for someone who rarely ever watched Survivor, fantastic job


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

It didn't even hit me until the three came over the hill to get the tree mail (I think) and the message about gifts from above, but it was an all African-American final. I maybe wouldn't have guessed that at the beginning, but then again, it should have been Yau-man instead of Dreamz anyway.

And by show of hands, how many were a little concerned during Lisi's 'eeny-meeny-miney-mo' bit about what type of toe was going to be caught??? (I'm sitting there thinking, "Don't do it! Don't do it!". I thought she just may be enough of a nut case to go there.)

And I'm sorry, but I have to do this: Y-a-u!!! Not Y-a-o.

Turned out to be a pretty good season after all!

And a  too to Yau-man for feeling bad about not recognizing people when they call out "Yau-man" on the streets - too funny!

And at the risk of bringing down the wrath of the spoiler gods, I wonder how much different the next season will actually be with it being in China and all. For some reason that just didn't raise my excitement level at all.


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

It's funny that during the first hour, I was thinking how I liked this survivor because everyone was playing the game, but not taking everything as personally as people in the past have. Prior to being voted out, nearly everyone on the jury was recognizing strategy and being pretty nice to each other. One thing that made this Survivor fun to watch the last few weeks was that there was some good game play going on, rather than just a clash of personalities. 

I had forgotten about Lisi, but I was completely surprised by Alex's tirade. If all of his scheming had worked for him, I'm thinking his tune would have been different! Kudos to Rocky for not getting loony. He was the one I was expecting fireworks from. 

I do wonder if Dreamz was "playing the game" when he agreed to Yao-man's deal. Before that, he had been pretty erratic and after every bad decision he had rationalization for it. But after the deal with Yao-man, he seemed very philosophical. The one question I guess is, would he bother to lie to the "confessional" camera about it, or would he brag about how he was playing the game, like he did with the back-stabbing of his fellow "horsemen."

Mookie continued to show his amazing intelligence by pretty much repeating Edgardo's question. (anyone think he ever realized that he was voted out by Alex?)


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

dreamz = the perfect politician

now just to find enough signatures!

is it this show or big brother that used to show who got voted out and went to loser island? I think BB and would love to see that on survivor too


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

over 100 posts and I guess I'll be the first: I don't see the problem with what Dreamz did...

yes, he intended to give the idol to Yau...I don't believe his lie that it was strategy all along not to give it to him...but there is no way that his move was the wrong one...he increased his expected value (by how much is debatable)...and in a game that you're playing for MONEY, that's the correct move to make...

and yes, Lisi clearly did not know how many zeros in a million...


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Caught a few seconds of the 'Early Show' and Dreamz actually admitted that he had *zero* chance of winning the million over Earl but still went back on his word and kept the idol.

Just goes to show how stupid he really is. He danced all around whether he was planning to be a snake all along, and certainly was a rat and snake in the end, but he really could have come out of it all looking like fairly much like a man that had some honor and sense of duty.


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## dbranco (Nov 20, 2003)

Anubys said:


> over 100 posts and I guess I'll be the first: I don't see the problem with what Dreamz did...
> 
> yes, he intended to give the idol to Yau...I don't believe his lie that it was strategy all along not to give it to him...but there is no way that his move was the wrong one...he increased his expected value (by how much is debatable)...and in a game that you're playing for MONEY, that's the correct move to make...


I agree with you. I think that Yau shot himself in the foot when he made it clear that Dreamz was on the chopping block. We've seen that Dreamz is very impulsive. He saw the situation as "give up immunity and be on the jury". If they had targeted Cassandra in that Tribal Council, then I think he would've seen it as "give up immunity and be in the final 3 anyway". I also think his tears were very real and that he truly struggled with the choice at the end.

Deb


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## chs4 (Sep 25, 2002)

> And by show of hands, how many were a little concerned during Lisi's 'eeny-meeny-miney-mo' bit about what type of toe was going to be caught??? (I'm sitting there thinking, "Don't do it! Don't do it!". I thought she just may be enough of a nut case to go there.)












She will definitely go down as one of the oddest Survivors ever, IMO.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

The final episode was a great comeback for CBS after a pretty bad "Survivor" season. The final vote amongst 3 in this "Survivor" was a good choice, but probably wouldn't be so good in many of their seasons.

In the final challenge, when it was down to Dreamz and Yao, it was painfully obvious Dreamz was going after it for himself. He just isn't intelligent enough to figure out all the cards.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Hey, it was a late night for me. Yes, there are six zeros in one million.


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## Joules1111 (Jul 21, 2005)

TomK said:


> Lisi is a loony! Alex should be telling Lisi to shut up.


I went to high school with her. She has ALWAYS been a loony.


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## tmg (Mar 8, 2003)

Einselen said:


> I don't blame Dreamz for his move (in a mathematical sense, ethics, man of words, promises may be different).
> 
> If Dreamz gave up immunity he would have 100% chance of getting $70,000. No doubt in anyone's mind that he would be voted out. If he kept immunity he had 1/3 chance at $1,000,000, 1/3 chance at $100,000 and 1/3 chance at $85,000 (not taking in account of prediction of votes, just straight odds) making his expected value $395,000. That right there is a difference of $325,000. However to use this math in a one time situation is not as effective as a repeated game.


Since it was a vote, not a randam drawing, the math (as Dreamz must have seen it) was: $70,000 (and no chance at $1M, and give the win to Yau-Man) versus $85,000 (and no chance at $1M, and give the win to Earl).

Either an additional $15,000 outweighed all other considerations, or Dreamz had a hidden reason for wanting to hurt Yau-man or help Earl. Either Dreamz hid deep resentment even hatred towards Yau-man for making the gift offer, or helping/hurting Yau-man simply didn't enter into the equation.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

why can't be as simple as Dreamz thought he had a decent chance at the million? he might have thought he had 20% chance to win...which is better than zero


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## Joules1111 (Jul 21, 2005)

Where were the food/luxury auction and the family visit challenge? I really missed both of those.

I also still don't get why people hated Boo so much. He seemed quite charming to me. And he was a quiet Christian - didn't preach to everyone - kinda shocked by his Final Tribal comments, since they seemed to come out of nowhere. And I mean this in a nice way. :up:


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

tmg said:


> Either an additional $15,000 outweighed all other considerations, or Dreamz had a hidden reason for wanting to hurt Yau-man or help Earl. Either Dreamz hid deep resentment even hatred towards Yau-man for making the gift offer, or helping/hurting Yau-man simply didn't enter into the equation.


I thought about that too, and wondered if it wasn't a race thing? Maybe Dreamz simply wanted to help out another black man than an Asian?

I don't fault Dreamz for his choice, but I do fault him for how he handled it (both in interviews and at TC). He showed a lack of class in that regard.

I'm happy for Earl. I cannot say that he didn't deserve it as much as Yau Man.


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## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

I agree with Anubys, if there was a reasonable chance at winning the million. However, Dreamz had to know that by going against his word, not just for a normal game promise, but after being given an expensive truck for the promise, that he'd lose many votes. 

As someone else already said in this thread, I'm really surprised one of the other players didn't point this out to him. Furthermore, he spent a fair amount of camera time, proclaiming that this was a point of honor for him, that he'd be proud his son could look up to him as a man of his word. That made it personal beyond game promises. I'm sure that if Yau-man or Earl or Casandra spent 5 minutes with him pointing these things out, then he would have kept his word.

However! Earl and Casandra had a clear conflict of interest, and even though they'd feel bad for Yau-man, and be surprised if Dreamz went back on his word, they would still benefit hugely if he went back on his word. So it all comes down to Yau-man - why didn't he talk to Dreamz? In tribal council, when he said it was his mistake, was he saying that making the deal was a mistake, or it was his mistake for not putting some pressure on Dreamz? I think Yau-man was looking at it very philosophically at that point, feeling that he'd made his move with the truck, and now he had to accept the risks. (I haven't watched the reunion show yet, did Jeff ask him about that comment in Tribal?)


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## loubob57 (Mar 19, 2001)

I really thought Dreamz was going to honor his deal.

The thing he should have done as touched on a bit already, talk Yau-man into voting for Cassandra in exchange for the necklace. Then the worst he can do is end up in a tie. The tie breaker gives him a chance of making it to the final 3 with some integrity and getting some votes. Breaking his word = no votes.

Also Yau-man should have suggested the same strategy to Dreamz. He admitted it was a mistake that he didn't work on Dreamz before the last TC.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

jradosh said:


> I thought about that too, and wondered if it wasn't a race thing? Maybe Dreamz simply wanted to help out another black man than an Asian?
> 
> I don't fault Dreamz for his choice, but I do fault him for how he handled it (both in interviews and at TC). He showed a lack of class in that regard.
> 
> I'm happy for Earl. I cannot say that he didn't deserve it as much as Yau Man.


I was thinking about the race particulars also. I also thought of Johnny Fairchild and then said, 'well, there has got to be one in every game that gets the fans riled up - good or bad.' So maybe Dreamz was that one. And Yau was the 'good' guy this season.

I did like that Yau mentioned at the reunion about him being a mature older man and Dreamz a youngster not yet developed in his thinking. Yau gets many points for his good naturedness and able to handle set backs and think things out.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Joules1111 said:


> I went to high school with her. She has ALWAYS been a loony.


does she know how many zeros there are in 1 million?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Gunnyman said:


> does she know how many zeros there are in 1 million?


let's see if Joules knows...maybe it's the school that's at fault


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## Joules1111 (Jul 21, 2005)

Anubys said:


> let's see if Joules knows...maybe it's the school that's at fault


Dade county public schools aren't that great. My math skills aren't that sharp, however, I do know how many zeros are in a million (6 if it's a straight million, 8 if you are talking currency). :up:

The weird thing is I didn't even realize it was her until last night. I thinks since I've always thought of her as "lisette linares", not "lisi" it didn't click until I saw her full name last night. I suspected, but only in a nagging, back of my mind kind of way.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I was so disappointed that Yau didn't win  I think because Dreamz was so impulsive, Yau should have yelled to him at the immunity challenge when Earl fell off to give him the immunity idol right then and there by falling off. Dreamz might have just fell for that since it was so tough, and if he didn't then Yau would have had enough time to form an alternate strategy. ie. tell Earl to at least vote Cassandra so he would have a chance at the tiebreaker. You know Earl could have been convinced to let his buddy tempt fate with a tie instead of voting him outright.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

Idearat said:


> I still think Dreamz is an idiot, and that Yao-Man blew it by not promising to NOT vote for him.


Exactly correct, and this was a tremendous mistake on Yau Man's part by not telling Dreamz "if you give me immunity I promise I will not vote for you."

All Yau had to do was have a one-on-one talk with Dreamz before the final TC, and say "you give me immunity and then let's both vote Cassandra."

I think Dreamz would've gone for that. Then work on Earl to vote Cassandra ....if he doesn't, worst case for Dreamz is a tie....and he at least still has a chance at the million and doesn't come off looking like a total scoundrel to 10 million people.

Yau Man blew it unfortunately, because he didn't tie up this loose end (and he knew Dreamz was a wild card).


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Yau was incredibly stupid for not making sure that Dreamz (even if not true) thinks he will stay after the vote...

changing topics a little to something that annoys the heck out of me: the producers going to great length to make us think that the vote is between Boo and Dreamz...then giving Boo a ton of screen time...when they concentrate on one person for an extended period of time, you KNOW that's the person voted out...it's so stupid...


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

Dreamz seems like a 7 year-old child in a man's body.

He's given so many contradictory answers to the "Did you intend to keep your word" question that I don't think even HE knows what he was going to do. I understand the "outwitting" part may involve deception, but Dreamz threw away his honor when he said he wanted to show his son that he was a man of his word. Instead, he showed his son that lying to others is OK if it gets you something.

Here's hoping his son can find a better role model than dear old dad.


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## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

I agree with those who said that Yau should have promised not to vote for Dreamz in order to encourage Dreamz to keep his promise. 

In addition, Yau should have done more to bring some realities to Dreamz's attention. While it is unlikely that Dreamz could beat Yau head-to-head, it was also unlikely that he could beat Earl head-to-head (particularly after reneging on his deal for the truck). Dreamz's ONLY shot at winning the $1M was to honor his deal (after getting assurances that Cassandra would be voted off), go against both Yau & Earl at final tribal, hope to get some sympathy votes, and pray that Yau & Earl split the vote.


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## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

durl said:


> Dreamz seems like a 7 year-old child in a man's body.
> 
> He's given so many contradictory answers to the "Did you intend to keep your word" question that I don't think even HE knows what he was going to do. I understand the "outwitting" part may involve deception, but Dreamz threw away his honor when he said he wanted to show his son that he was a man of his word. Instead, he showed his son that lying to others is OK if it gets you something* and you can act like you didn't know any better later*.
> 
> Here's hoping his son can find a better role model than dear old dad.


FYP. 

Dreamz was a flat out liar. Yau was kind of stupid for trusting a inmature idiot. So I guess the right guy won.

All-in-all, I was mostly happy with the season for Rocky getting the boot when he did. That idiot isn't deserving of the nickname "Rocky" as he was the opposite of everything the name stands for. He is a wussy momma's boy, trying to act like a tough guy.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Remember...

Surivor is a game.

A game with the stated purpose of outwitting, outlasting, and outplaying.

A game with only two hard-fast rules.

#1 - Contestants may not conspire to share the end money.
#2 - Contestants may not use physical force against another contestant unless during the challenges where force is a required part of the game.


Did Dreamz make an error, sure - and I don't think anyone will ever believe that it was all "strategy" and "planned-out" from the beginning. - but damn - it's a friggin GAME.

I figured Rocky would be the nutso one on the jury... he and Michelle were pretty much the only ones with their heads on straight and ended up "getting" the fact that it is a game.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

who would have thought that Alex would be more nuts than Lisi and Rocky combined?!

I sure hope Alex is not a litigating attorney


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

tmg said:


> Since it was a vote, not a randam drawing, the math (as Dreamz must have seen it) was: $70,000 (and no chance at $1M, and give the win to Yau-Man) versus $85,000 (and no chance at $1M, and give the win to Earl).
> 
> Either an additional $15,000 outweighed all other considerations, or Dreamz had a hidden reason for wanting to hurt Yau-man or help Earl.


I wonder, do the contestants even know what the prize money is for each place? They seem to talk about the difference between first and second place every time, so surely everyone knows that, but are they aware of the prize amounts beyond that?


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> who would have thought that Alex would be more nuts than Lisi and Rocky combined?!
> 
> I sure hope Alex is not a litigating attorney


Alex seemed like a "TV attorney" instead of a real attorney.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

More random thoughts...

I don't believe for a minute that Dre planned anything. He is a reactive person, and almost every time he did something, it was in response to a situation, as versus a planned move. That still doesn't excuse his actions though.

I'm in the camp that what he did is inexcusable. A deal is a deal. It's one thing to make & break alliances, and shift votes. It's another to make a one-on-one deal with someone, that includes an exchange of value, and renege on it. When you add his admittance that he knew he couldn't win, one has to wonder why? We'll never know.

Assuming Boo is a Christian, he hid it well. And played it well. Usually they (the producers) attempt to show how wacky the religious can be. And often they are the first ones voted off, as they make others uncomfortable. It is a testament to Boo that (1) this was never an issue with the rest of the players, and (2) he made it as far as he did without a strong alliance.

Sorry about the Yao/Yau spelling. I'm guilty. We have a Yao in Houston, so my fingers just kept typing it.

I turned to my wife towards the end and commented on the fact that all three finalists were black. This show gets so intense among the competitors that people & personalities are the issues, not race. Most viewers never gave that a second thought. Although as someone mentioned above, I wondered for just a second if Dreamz had any racial motivation in making his decision. I think not, but who knows . . .

Cassandra--Yes, she is worthless. Yes, she contributed about as much as that wart on my butt. But in fairness, what else could she do? Contestants that have no physical skills, and minimal game-playing cunning, are pretty much reduced to playing the "under the radar" game. It works every season. I still don't like it or her, but it works, and they just don't have much choice. At least she didn't make much effort to sway voters at the final TC; even she knew she was doomed.

Great season. I haven't watched the Reunion Show yet--China next year?


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## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

I sure did enjoy the pink dress (with cleavage) that the girl on the end was wearing through the whole reunion show last night. I don't seem to remember her being that healthy in the show. maybe she was wearing one of those push-up thingies from Victoria Secrets.


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## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Remember...
> 
> Surivor is a game.
> 
> ...


What's your point?


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Cassandra--Yes, she is worthless. Yes, she contributed about as much as that wart on my butt. But in fairness, what else could she do? Contestants that have no physical skills, and minimal game-playing cunning, are pretty much reduced to playing the "under the radar" game. It works every season. I still don't like it or her, but it works, and they just don't have much choice. At least she didn't make much effort to sway voters at the final TC; even she knew she was doomed.


This is the one major reason I like the 3 person finally, it really makes it hard for an "under the radar" player like Casandra to win. These type of players usually win by having the other person be the "hated" person with a vengeful jury (see Sandra & Vecepia). With a three person final, it is more likely you will have a worthy candidate (along with the tag along player).


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## Chapper1 (Jan 2, 2004)

Joules1111 said:


> Where were the food/luxury auction and the family visit challenge? I really missed both of those.


Not sure about the food auction, but I am assuming that the family visit challenge was scrapped when they were having major political upheavals and such in Fiji during the taping. My guess is that they didn't want to bring more people in to the country unless absolutely necessary.


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## waldingrl (Jan 19, 2005)

Yay Earl! :up:

I thought Earl did a great job at the final tribal council, as well. He had a great "game face", and answered the questions nicely. Sometimes I think the contestants try to talk way too much to get a ppint across. Earl appeared straightforward and gave short informative answers.

Also, kudos to Yau. He really was the all around best player, IMHO. He also gained a ton of points in my book when he said that Dreamz could go far, he just needs discipline.


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## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

A comment on the three finalists... they should have known there would be three from the moment the jury started to form. Two finalists would mean 10 jurists, and a possible tie. They wouldn't create that situation.

(Granted, you can't prevent a tie with 3 finalists... but you certainly can with 2.)


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

waldingrl said:


> Yay Earl! :up:
> 
> I thought Earl did a great job at the final tribal council, as well. He had a great "game face", and answered the questions nicely. Sometimes I think the contestants try to talk way too much to get a ppint across. Earl appeared straightforward and gave short informative answers.
> 
> Also, kudos to Yau. He really was the all around best player, IMHO. He also gained a ton of points in my book when he said that Dreamz could go far, he just needs discipline.


And an education.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

retrodog said:


> What's your point?


uh...

Seriously?

Uh...

It's a game.


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## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

Boot said:


> A comment on the three finalists... they should have known there would be three from the moment the jury started to form. Two finalists would mean 10 jurists, and a possible tie. They wouldn't create that situation.
> 
> (Granted, you can't prevent a tie with 3 finalists... but you certainly can with 2.)


I do believe filming started on Fiji prior to Cook Islands' airing, so I can go with why/how they were floored when it was said to be a 3-person final.

As for math - it would be easy for them to figure out that the jury wasn't going to be 7, but 9. (still no ties)


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

astrohip said:


> I don't believe for a minute that Dre planned anything.


I agree with that. I think that when he took the deal he was just taking the "bird in the hand," and didn't really think he had a big chance of making it to the 4 anyway.

I think saying that he planned it all along was a way to change people's (including his own) way of thinking about what he did. To make it understandable and excusable in the context of the game.

Funny thing is, I'm a bit torn on it myself. I mean, it IS a game, and deceit and betrayal ARE part of the game. Dreamz is right when he says that it's not the same as when you do something in "real life." If a quarterback fakes a pass, or a baseball player steals a base, these things are understood in the context of the game. Fooling your opponent is something you want to do. I know this isn't the same kind of game, it is a social game, but it is a game after all. I suppose there is a line somewhere that you don't cross, but that line is in a different place for everyone. Mookie and Alex were ok with going through Yau's personal possessions. Boo was ok with creating a secret spot from which to spy and eavesdrop. Still, I don't think I could have ever done what Dreamz did, but I would never accepted the deal in the first place.


----------



## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> uh...
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> ...


.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I also suspect that Dreamz didn't have a clue what he was getting himself into AFTER the show. Perhaps he's not that teid into popular culture, but I suspect if he realized that millions of people were going to watch what he did, and that he was going to be meeting those people in person for the rest of his life, he would have thought a little differently about his actions.

On a more positive note, he will now have to pay the price for his lack of thought. For the rest of his life.


----------



## JPA2825 (May 15, 2000)

Boot said:


> A comment on the three finalists... they should have known there would be three from the moment the jury started to form. Two finalists would mean 10 jurists, and a possible tie. They wouldn't create that situation.
> 
> (Granted, you can't prevent a tie with 3 finalists... but you certainly can with 2.)


Strong suspicion = YES

"should have known" = NO

As often as they change things, they could easily have planned a twist or just decided to implement a "contingent twist" at the end (e.g., last person voted out gets "super vote" that breaks any ties.)

I wouldn't be surprised if this is something Burnett has as contingency now that he's done it 2x. In both instances, the "lump of coal" would likely have gone to the final 2 making it a complete non-event. As such, Burnett stops at 3 and there is some potential excitement.


----------



## MrCouchPotato (Dec 12, 2005)

When Alex was doing his questioning during the final TC, I was wondering what it would like to see a courtroom with him on one side arguing against Shmirna from The Amazing Race All stars. That would be good for an hour comedy special.

You just have to wonder how differently things may have been for Dreamz if he did actually stick to his word. He would have earned so much respect that may have openned a lot of doors for him and he would have then gotten a real sympathy reward. Would have been worth more then the $10 or $20K extra he won. But the more he talked at the reunion the more he proved he was not up to that level of respect. 

Don't know if I like the 3rd preson tag along in the final 3 nowadays. But at least Cassandara didn't win it in a tie breaker like what's her name from last season who could barely get a fire started in the challenge with flint and a nice big box of matches.

I thought Yauman had a good chance on the final immunity challenge between his weight and mental powers, a younger YM would have definitely gotten it. I was suprised Earl hung on as long as he did but he was smart to get himself away from the water as much as he did.

I bet Jeff would have loved to ragged on some of those Jurors as they were speaking, you could see it in his face. So glad they switched from that Bryant Gumball/Rosie O'Wacko hosting the reunions. Jeff Probst is the obvious best choice with his insight to these people.


----------



## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

MrCouchPotato said:


> You just have to wonder how differently things may have been for Dreamz if he did actually stick to his word. He would have earned so much respect that may have openned a lot of doors for him and he would have then gotten a real sympathy reward. Would have been worth more then the $10 or $20K extra he won. But the more he talked at the reunion the more he proved he was not up to that level of respect.


My husband said almost the exact thing. We were talking about the chance of Dreamz getting a job just took a nosedive.


----------



## MrCouchPotato (Dec 12, 2005)

Martha said:


> My husband said almost the exact thing. We were talking about the chance of Dreamz getting a job just took a nosedive.


I would have real trouble lending him some cash.... or my car...

Too bad they didn't have another car to give away during the reunion. You know Earl would have picked YM to get it.


----------



## NinerK (Oct 10, 2002)

hefe said:


> Good for Yau. I'm sure even Boo was proud of such a Christian move.


LOL,LMAO,ROTFLMAO etc,.....


----------



## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

RBlount said:


> This is the one major reason I like the 3 person finally, it really makes it hard for an "under the radar" player like Casandra to win. These type of players usually win by having the other person be the "hated" person with a vengeful jury (see Sandra & Vecepia). With a three person final, it is more likely you will have a worthy candidate (along with the tag along player).


A Dreams/Casandra final two would have forced me to turn off the TV.

A Mirna and Alex spinoff would be great. She can talk to him in a fake accent and he can tell her to shut up (something Charla should have done long ago). Lisi can be the judge.

Jeff


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

jeffo13 said:


> A Dreams/Casandra final two would have forced me to turn off the TV.
> 
> Jeff


I'm afraid I have to disagree here.

I wouldn't be able to turn it off, because the remote would have already left my hand (and bounced off the TV).


----------



## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> Remember...
> 
> Surivor is a game.
> 
> ...


We're all familiar with this argument, and there's always debate between whether or not you should be "faithful" to friends within the game. This situation is unique I think because,

#1 - Dreamz made a huge point during *private *talks to the camera about how he could show his son that he is a man of his word.
#2 - There wasn't just an in-game deal trading votes or alliances. Yau-man gave him a freakin' car. This is akin to the "Let's make a deal." game, where he's obviously choosing the sure thing over the long shot. He chose to take the car to give up his chance at $1 Million.


----------



## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

No matter how you look at it, the car jinx lives on.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

TreborPugly said:


> #2 - There wasn't just an in-game deal trading votes or alliances. Yau-man gave him a freakin' car. This is akin to the "Let's make a deal." game, where he's obviously choosing the sure thing over the long shot. He chose to take the car to give up his chance at $1 Million.


Even more than that, it was in front of the entire tribe and Jeff. That, in my mind, is what made any deception regarding the agreement totally inexcusable.


----------



## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

TreborPugly said:


> We're all familiar with this argument, and there's always debate between whether or not you should be "faithful" to friends within the game. This situation is unique I think because,
> 
> #1 - Dreamz made a huge point during *private *talks to the camera about how he could show his son that he is a man of his word.
> #2 - There wasn't just an in-game deal trading votes or alliances. Yau-man gave him a freakin' car. This is akin to the "Let's make a deal." game, where he's obviously choosing the sure thing over the long shot. He chose to take the car to give up his chance at $1 Million.


That was my take on it as well. He baiscally lied to the watchers, which was *not* part of the game. But actually, he changed his mind and then lied about it later. Jeff did everything but call him out on the reunion recap. Well he actually did indeed call him out but then backed off at the last minute.



janry said:


> No matter how you look at it, the car jinx lives on.


Agreed.

But I will continue to believe that Dreamz is a lying bastard, even to himself. I'd be truly surprised if anyone has any thing to do with him in the future.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

how much do you think they had to pay china to let us in? I guess no chance of paparazzi there though!

I always wondered, is there a tight leash / fence around all these camps so that no one can sneak in?


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

ping said:


> Even more than that, it was in front of the entire tribe and Jeff. That, in my mind, is what made any deception regarding the agreement totally inexcusable.


Definately agree here.

How many other times has this happened in Survivor history? Johnny Fairwhatever and his dying grandmother? Anyone else?

Not a way to gain any admiration. Heck even the looney guy from a couple seasons ago that made a blackberry from a piece of wood, he did that all for his son and his sons respect. He was better than Dreamz.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

When Dreamz went back on his deal I was hoping for the following conversation: "You guys are a bunch of suckers! I don't have a son, I didn't grow up on the streets and you all got played!. Now give me my money!"


----------



## Joeg180 (Jun 1, 2003)

pmyers said:


> When Dreamz went back on his deal I was hoping for the following conversation: "You guys are a bunch of suckers! I don't have a son, I didn't grow up on the streets and you all got played!. Now give me my money!"


Just like the Johnny Fairplay grandmother died scam.

I would love for the show to force the final three to spend more time on the island, especially after they burned all the items in camp.


----------



## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

newsposter said:


> I always wondered, is there a tight leash / fence around all these camps so that no one can sneak in?


I call BS that Jeff said last night that everything on survivor was real. The lack of food, water, everything.


----------



## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

I can't believe no one has said anything about how great it was the Earl gave his Mom half the money!

:up:


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Havana Brown said:


> I call BS that Jeff said last night that everything on survivor was real. The lack of food, water, everything.


Would have loved a fan to shout out "What about the electric tree stump?!"


----------



## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

newsposter said:


> how much do you think they had to pay china to let us in?


We gave them Jack Bauer.


----------



## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

newsposter said:


> I always wondered, is there a tight leash / fence around all these camps so that no one can sneak in?


I think it is just kept such a good secret and by the time the public finds out the general location of the next season it would be impossible to find even with all the crew, cameras, and equipment.


----------



## lonwolf615 (May 19, 2004)

My wife brought up the year when they gave away another million dollars to the guy whose name escapes me.("The Hurly looking guy" is how she put it). That made me think it would have been cool if Jeff had said: Due to the unique situation of the truck deal, we had decided to give Dreamz a million if he kept his word. Since he didn't it goes to Yau." Would have been worth it just to see Dreamz lose his cool... 
The best moment for me: Earl explaining he couldn't beat Yao, and Yao grinning from ear to ear as he nodded in understanding. At that moment their friendship trumped even the million, and both showed themselves to be class acts. One of tv's greatest moments, imo.


----------



## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

lonwolf615 said:


> My wife brought up the year when they gave away another million dollars to the guy whose name escapes me.("The Hurly looking guy" is how she put it).


IIRC, that was Rupert on Survivov All-Stars. He got $1mil as the fan favorite (or something like that).



lonwolf615 said:


> That made me think it would have been cool if Jeff had said: Due to the unique situation of the truck deal, we had decided to give Dreamz a million if he kept his word. Since he didn't it goes to Yau." Would have been worth it just to see Dreamz lose his cool...


I would have been satisfied if they simply made Dreamz give back the truck, or if the IRS had shown up demanding the tax money on the spot.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Einselen said:


> I don't blame Dreamz for his move (in a mathematical sense, ethics, man of words, promises may be different).
> 
> If Dreamz gave up immunity he would have 100% chance of getting $70,000. No doubt in anyone's mind that he would be voted out. If he kept immunity he had 1/3 chance at $1,000,000, 1/3 chance at $100,000 and 1/3 chance at $85,000 (not taking in account of prediction of votes, just straight odds) making his expected value $395,000. That right there is a difference of $325,000. However to use this math in a one time situation is not as effective as a repeated game.


So, he sold his soul for $15,000? He never had any chance to win or even come in second one he deep sixed YauMan. In the process, he screwed over the man who should have won and who had done the best plotting and playing and was still a big treat in the immunity challenges.

I give YauMan huge credit for his kindness at the reunion show. He got plain and simply screwed over and took it like a man.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Anubys said:


> over 100 posts and I guess I'll be the first: I don't see the problem with what Dreamz did...
> 
> yes, he intended to give the idol to Yau...I don't believe his lie that it was strategy all along not to give it to him...but there is no way that his move was the wrong one...he increased his expected value (by how much is debatable)...and in a game that you're playing for MONEY, that's the correct move to make...


I'd argue the opposite. In a game where you can't win, the change to do appearances and other ancillary activities that can make you money, screwing the most popular guy is stupid. At best he moved from 4th to 3rd which gained him $15K. He'll lose much more than that in appearance money from here on out. He never had a chance at 1st or 2nd after he did that. And frankly, if he really wants to be honest, he knew that going in.


----------



## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

RBlount said:


> This is the one major reason I like the 3 person finally, it really makes it hard for an "under the radar" player like Casandra to win. These type of players usually win by having the other person be the "hated" person with a vengeful jury (see Sandra & Vecepia). With a three person final, it is more likely you will have a worthy candidate (along with the tag along player).


Good point. I too was very happy to see Cassandra get nothing.


----------



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> I'd argue the opposite. In a game where you can't win, the change to do appearances and other ancillary activities that can make you money, screwing the most popular guy is stupid. At best he moved from 4th to 3rd which gained him $15K. He'll lose much more than that in appearance money from here on out. He never had a chance at 1st or 2nd after he did that. And frankly, if he really wants to be honest, he knew that going in.


And that is the point I would most definitely make.

If Dreamz had been true to his original word he would have stood to make a small fortune in speaking fees, book writing, and other things that would have played up his role as a man of his word, a man that officially traded away his chance at a million even though everyone *knew* that he stood no chance at winning the money any way.

The amount of money he loses now because he will forever be seen as a villian pales in comparison to what little real money he got by going from 4th place to 3rd place (or tied for second even).

Pay to see him speak? No way.

Pay to buy a book on why being a snake and rat is a good thing? No way.

I hope that no matter where he goes there's always someone that recognizes him as 'that snake from survivor' and winds up finding himself perpetually underemployed.


----------



## SuperZippy (Feb 12, 2002)

i was surprised they did not do some sort of "rupert" deal...

giving yau some cash, or at least a vehicle...


----------



## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

Wonder If they will ask Yao to go to China on the next show, I'm sure he will make the AllStars.
I bet he sold the truck to pay the taxes, Thats why he didn't offer it back. and that was a few months ago they got back from the Island so I'm sure the IRS got him.


----------



## Dssturbo1 (Feb 23, 2005)

Mikkel_Knight said:


> I do believe filming started on Fiji prior to Cook Islands' airing, so I can go with why/how they were floored when it was said to be a 3-person final.
> 
> As for math - it would be easy for them to figure out that the jury wasn't going to be 7, but 9. (still no ties)


discussed when they went to 3 finalists in Survivor/Cook Islands, there could still be a tie with odd number of jurors since there are 3 finalists to vote for. 4/4/1 or 3/3/3

they should switch back to 7 jurors and 2 finalist for Survivor/China.


----------



## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Joeg180 said:


> I would love for the show to force the final three to spend more time on the island, especially after they burned all the items in camp.


OMG, lol, I actually thought they might this year (even paused to say it during the show). They were making such a big deal about filming the bonfire that it made me think maybe they were going to throw in the final twist: "Now you must live on the island for another week. Good luck!". I SO wish it would have happened! :up: :up:


----------



## quaz_the_panther (Aug 18, 2005)

bdowell said:


> And that is the point I would most definitely make.
> 
> If Dreamz had been true to his original word he would have stood to make a small fortune in speaking fees, book writing, and other things that would have played up his role as a man of his word, a man that officially traded away his chance at a million even though everyone *knew* that he stood no chance at winning the money any way.
> 
> ...


Yup, yup, yup!!

Honestly, I don't think dreamz even thought about the delta in money between 3rd and 4th place, and simply saw this as a way he might win a million. He had no grand strategy, b/c he showed time and again he had no strategy in the game. I don't think he realized he was in a no win situation and that either Yao or Earl was going to win, b/c he didn't think that far ahead.

Tammy


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

katbug said:


> OMG, lol, I actually thought they might this year (even paused to say it during the show). They were making such a big deal about filming the bonfire that it made me think maybe they were going to throw in the final twist: "Now you must live on the island for another week. Good luck!". I SO wish it would have happened! :up: :up:


I thought that as well! I hate how they burn everything every season!! I would LOVE for them to have to live there another three days - then have them have to vote someone else off and only have a final two!


----------



## retrodog (Feb 7, 2002)

HIHZia said:


> I can't believe no one has said anything about how great it was the Earl gave his Mom half the money!
> 
> :up:


That's cause we just figured he was pulling a dreamz at that point. He doesn't even have a mother.


----------



## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

In the last immunity challenge, I think Dreamz needed to prove something to himself. He had not won individual immunity yet, so I don't blame him for hanging on there.

If Dreamz had seriously been playing Yau all that time, he would have said so in his confessionals. Even Fairplay let us in on his joke as soon as he and his buddy were alone. Poor idiot Dreamz... lying about lying about lying... 

I LOVE the three-player finales. So far, it's two-for-two: a good player has won the million both times. Yul or Ozzy would have been a deserving winner, and Earl was a good candidate (only Yau was better). A Cassandra-Dreamz final two would have seen the money go to the Queen of Mmmmmm-hmmmmmm. A three-player finale has a MUCH better chance that a good player will make it to the end and win it all.

I won the "closest-to-the-pin" picking the next Survivor location... I guessed Japan. China looks interesting. Filming starts in July.


----------



## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

JLucPicard said:


> It didn't even hit me until the three came over the hill to get the tree mail and the message about gifts from above,


I thought it would be an empty Coke bottle thrown from the plane.


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

jenhudson said:


> I thought that as well! I hate how they burn everything every season!! I would LOVE for them to have to live there another three days - then have them have to vote someone else off and only have a final two!


It bothers me that the torches are always torched somehow...

With the charity auction they have, those torches would fetch several thousand dollars a piece...

It just doesn't make sense


----------



## jhausmann (Aug 21, 2002)

The Flush said:


> I thought it would be an empty Coke bottle thrown from the plane.


The gods, and Lisi, must be crazy....


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

did we ever get an answer as to who is 2nd/3rd


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Havana Brown said:


> I call BS that Jeff said last night that everything on survivor was real. The lack of food, water, everything.


i think here or on some other board i read they do have certain 'essential' items...though i forget what those are. Like i cant imagine you dont brush ur teeth over a month.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fl_Gulfer said:


> Wonder If they will ask Yao to go to China on the next show, I'm sure he will make the AllStars.
> I bet he sold the truck to pay the taxes, Thats why he didn't offer it back. and that was a few months ago they got back from the Island so I'm sure the IRS got him.


I'd be surprised if the truck wasn't held back and not officially awarded until the show is over. You can't have a contestant on the show driving something that they won when they get back home before it airs.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Kablemodem said:


> We gave them Jack Bauer.


and did they give us (oops cant say)...you know who i mean



Einselen said:


> I think it is just kept such a good secret and by the time the public finds out the general location of the next season it would be impossible to find even with all the crew, cameras, and equipment.


I guess with chloe and hawkins I always assumed we had satellite technology at our disposal.


----------



## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

There was no way Dreamz would give Yau immunity, even if Yau agreed not to vote for Dreamz. Earl, Cassandra and Dreamz all realized they had no chance against Yau. With Yau out of the picture Earl was the only one who stood a chance of winning. Dreamz and Cassandra are lengends in their own minds.


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## Barryrod (Mar 17, 2006)

How much is Dreamz gonna have to pay on Federal Taxes on the Truck and Cash he won, anyone know??

He will probably blow the money and end up in jail for tax evasion like the Rich Hatch.


----------



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Barryrod said:


> How much is Dreamz gonna have to pay on Federal Taxes on the Truck and Cash he won, anyone know??
> 
> He will probably blow the money and end up in jail for tax evasion like the Rich Hatch.


Not just federal taxes, but potentially personal property taxes (if he's a resident of a place like Virginia as an example) that might have to be paid every year.

Personally I hope it is the gift that keeps on giving and keeps costing him money. :up:


----------



## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

How about the fact that he's not a licensed driver? I do believe he said that during the truck episode. I wonder what the insurance on that truck would be for a newly licensed driver (assuming he can pass both the written and road test).


----------



## Mikkel_Knight (Aug 6, 2002)

newsposter said:


> Like i cant imagine you dont brush ur teeth over a month.


Reward item or luxury item.

I'll see if I can't find the sheet that detailed what contestants are supposed to (only allowed to) bring...


----------



## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

bdowell said:


> Not just federal taxes, but potentially personal property taxes (if he's a resident of a place like Virginia as an example) that might have to be paid every year.
> 
> Personally I hope it is the gift that keeps on giving and keeps costing him money. :up:


He's from Wilmington, NC (an hour away from me).


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

newsposter said:


> how much do you think they had to pay china to let us in? I guess no chance of paparazzi there though!
> 
> I always wondered, is there a tight leash / fence around all these camps so that no one can sneak in?


During filming, they have a security crew on land and on boats to keep people away. After filming is over, they are often more available as they do not strike them all that quickly, at least they did not in past years when people have been able to walk all over the TC set and take pictures to post at spoiler boards.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

MScottC said:


> How about the fact that he's not a licensed driver? I do believe he said that during the truck episode. I wonder what the insurance on that truck would be for a newly licensed driver (assuming he can pass both the written and road test).


i didnt know it mattered how many years you drove that affected ur insurance. Interesting. I thought it was purely age.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

A good chunk of your rates are based on your driving record. No driving record and you are automatically in a high risk group to begin with, no matter what your age.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

JLucPicard said:


> A good chunk of your rates are based on your driving record. No driving record and you are automatically in a high risk group to begin with, no matter what your age.


What? No driving record means you don't have any accidents or citations, not that you haven't been driving. I would like to see some evidence that my insurance company knows how long I've been licensed to drive.


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## Kablemodem (May 26, 2001)

They ask you when you were first licensed. Years of driving experience is a significant factor in determining auto insurance premiums.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

macquariumguy said:


> What? No driving record means you don't have any accidents or citations, not that you haven't been driving. I would like to see some evidence that my insurance company knows how long I've been licensed to drive.


I'm probably going to regret making this comparison, but I think it's very similar to having no credit history putting you in a larger credit risk bracket.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

newsposter said:


> i didnt know it mattered how many years you drove that affected ur insurance. Interesting. I thought it was purely age.


I have gotten many discounts for x # of years without insurance claims.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

macquariumguy said:


> What? No driving record means you don't have any accidents or citations, not that you haven't been driving. I would like to see some evidence that my insurance company knows how long I've been licensed to drive.


Except in New Jersey, where every driver moving into the state is put in assigned risk no matter how many years you have driven.


----------



## smallwonder (Jun 13, 2001)

TreborPugly said:


> We're all familiar with this argument, and there's always debate between whether or not you should be "faithful" to friends within the game. This situation is unique I think because,
> 
> #1 - Dreamz made a huge point during *private *talks to the camera about how he could show his son that he is a man of his word.


? Huh? That's merely a trick of camera editing; he may very well have also been lamenting the fact that he was going back on his word and CBS just never aired it. But who cares? It wasn't the key to the game.

Put me in the minority of folks here who thinks that Yau blew it by not talking to Dreamz. As has been said before, Dre was as logical a thinker as a 4 year old in a candy store being asked "What do you want?" When he promised Yau, he didn't have a thought in his head of what he would do IF he won final immunity. And then, when he did win, Yau as much as tells him: "Give me immunity; don't let the door hit you in the a** on your way out". And you expected Dreamz to hand it over quietly and honorably? As soon as CBS kept showing so much footage of him telling us he'd keep his word, all I could think of was Clinton:"I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" Riiiiggghht.

And for those who recognize that Dreamz wasn't smart enough to calculate his odds or plan his strategy but still expected him to think strategically as to his future proceeds (re: speaking engagement), you're kidding, right?

And here's another vote for going back to the 2 person format...


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

smallwonder said:


> Put me in the minority of folks here who thinks that Yau blew it by not talking to Dreamz.


No, you would be in the minority if you felt there was nothing wrong with what Dreamz did. But I'm not sure how most feel about Yau not speaking up. The great majority feel Dreamz is a liar & a cheat for reneging, but I would venture a guess most people also think (hindsight!) that Yau should have spoken up.

When they interviewed Yau on the CBS Morning Show (where they gave Earl the check), Yau said he knew he should have spoken up, even at the time, but his pride & stubbornness kept him quiet. More than once he said he was too stubborn to speak up, and now realizes what a mistake that was.

BTW, Dreams was just as full of sh*t the next morning as he was the last few months. Talking in circles, never answering a direct question, excusing every action with "just a game...". I'd hate to be his employment counselor


----------



## TreborPugly (May 2, 2002)

smallwonder said:


> ? Huh? That's merely a trick of camera editing; he may very well have also been lamenting the fact that he was going back on his word and CBS just never aired it. But who cares? It wasn't the key to the game.


No, They have private moments with the camera, where they are just speaking to the camera and no other survivor is around. It's a trick of editing WHEN those comments are made, and when they are shown. But they had multiple sessions with him talking the camera, over two episodes, saying that he considered it an opportunity to show his son what an honorable man he was. And then also some times when he said similar things to his tribemates.


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## WO312 (Jan 24, 2003)

Interesting article this morning in the Wilmington Star-News. It was by a staff writer so I doubt it went national.

Basically, it says that the warm-up comedian who has worked every Survivor live show has "never heard an audience so mad, ever" at what Dreamz did. Good to hear.

I've never linked an article before, so I don't know if this will work. I just did a copy and paste.

http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/...0070515/NEWS/705150315/1050&template=currents

Edit: And perhaps the comment by Dreamz' mother mentioned at the end of the article is what Jeff was referring to off camera that we all wondered about.


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

I didn't see this question asked: Would Yau-Man have fared any better if he hadn't made the deal with Dreamz (other than owning a more truck than 99% of us would ever need)? I think the outcome would have been exactly the same and frankly, I'd rather not have the pickup that I'd sell used to try to get enough money to pay the taxes on MSRP.

OTOH, I think both Dreamz and Yau should have played it differently so they both would have ended up in the final 3.

-murray


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## smallwonder (Jun 13, 2001)

astrohip said:


> No, you would be in the minority if you felt there was nothing wrong with what Dreamz did.


I never said I thought Dreamz was a saint; I'm just curious why so many people believed him when he said he'd give up immunity in the first place and kept promising to do it. He was never a beacon of truth and honesty during the show. His decisionmaking drove viewers nuts. Frankly, he reminded me of one of my cousins, who convinces himself he's telling you the truth at that moment in time to the point where you want to believe him but the thinking part of your brain says "where's my wallet?"

My point is that Yau is the smarter of the two and him hedging his bets on crazy Dreamz was like going "all in" on the river with bottom pair.

But I'm also not willing to write Dreamz off. I think if Yau holds out hope for him (and he spent more time with him than any of us), I'd like to think he might turn out to be a better person than this show portrayed.


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## MasterOfPuppets (Jul 12, 2005)

I didn't watch much of this season, but I'm always up for a Survivor finale.
If I was put in Dreamz' spot, with my only and probably only shot at winning $1M, I absolutely would have done the same thing. The choice was either stop being a Survivor and quit playing the game...or keep playing the game and surviving to play another day.
I don't see him as a bad guy, he was just playing the game.
I swear, it's like this is the very first time that people have ever seen the game.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Just to keep beating the dead horse.

Keeping the immunity necklace was NOT Dreamz one and only shot at a million dollars. It was just one step that may have bettered his odds, not a guarantee ( obviously ). Had he been brighter he could have not been and jerk AND improved his odds by giving it to Yau as promised, while attempting to negotiate not to get voted off. Yau had no problem voting for Cassandra. Heck, if Dreamz hadn't made it worse by going back on the deal AND voting for Yau then at least Yau would have had a chance with the tie.

I also wonder if Yau's confidence in Dreamz didn't hurt him in the final challenge. He won the one where he stood on the tiny ledge, and he's a tough little guy. If he knew Dreamz wasn't going to to honor the deal he might have held out a little longer.


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## Rob64 (Aug 27, 2005)

Can anyone tell me how much the other two got for being in the final three. I assume they each got 100,000. Did Yau get anything for being in the final 4?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Rob64 said:


> Can anyone tell me how much the other two got for being in the final three. I assume they each got 100,000. Did Yau get anything for being in the final 4?


Yau gets $70,000...see post #79 of this thread for the list...there's a debate at what numbers 2 & 3 will now get given that it's a tie (probably the average)...

I wonder if people are pissed at Dreamz because of who he did it to as opposed to what he did...just a thought...


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Anubys said:


> I wonder if people are pissed at Dreamz because of who he did it to as opposed to what he did...just a thought...


Certainly there is some aspect of that involved. Like Rupert in Panama, Yau was enormously popular with the TV audience. For me, though, this is just a lack of integrity and very shortsighted. Dreamz was kidding himself if he thought the immunity was going to get him a million dollars. As we saw, with three of them he had no chance. He backstabbed the most well liked contestent and had already done similar thing to the four horsemen on the jury.

Had he given Yau the immunity and made a deal not to be voted for ( he probably could have gotten Yau and Earl to agree to that ) he might have gotten a few votes and maybe gotten second based on sympathy. Effectively, by doing this, he gave the big Money to Earl instead of Yau and all dreams did was move from a 3rd or 2nd place to a tie for the money. At best, he gained half the difference between the two prices and at worst he lost that much. Not much return for selling your word.

All of that ignores the post airing costs to Dreamz. He lost any chance at doing appearances and like it or not it will effect his future employment since he be negatively remembered for that act for some time to come.

Add to that the fact that he clearly lied about what he did on the reunion show ( he had no idea when he took the truck that he would shaft Yau, he just wanted the truck ). That lie and the betrayal will follow him for some time to come.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

WO312 said:


> Interesting article this morning in the Wilmington Star-News. It was by a staff writer so I doubt it went national.
> ...
> http://www.starnewsonline.com/apps/...0070515/NEWS/705150315/1050&template=currents





Wilmington Star-News said:


> And as Dreamz wrestled with whether to keep his word to Yau-Man - if Dreamz kept the necklace he was guaranteed a $100,000 second-place prize and a shot at a million dollars


Err... no.  It only guaranteed him a top-three finish.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

smallwonder said:


> ...Put me in the minority of folks here who thinks that Yau blew it by not talking to Dreamz. As has been said before, Dre was as logical a thinker as a 4 year old in a candy store being asked "What do you want?" When he promised Yau, he didn't have a thought in his head of what he would do IF he won final immunity. And then, when he did win, Yau as much as tells him: "Give me immunity; don't let the door hit you in the a** on your way out". And you expected Dreamz to hand it over quietly and honorably? As soon as CBS kept showing so much footage of him telling us he'd keep his word, all I could think of was Clinton:"I did not have sexual relations with that woman!" Riiiiggghht...


I agree. Yao's biggest mistake (as well as Dreamz) was not making a deal that Dreamz would honor his deal IF Yau agreed to vote out Cassandra. Yao left Dreamz no other choice but to go back on his word, if Dreamz was to have any chance at the million dollars.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Rob64 said:


> Can anyone tell me how much the other two got for being in the final three. I assume they each got 100,000. Did Yau get anything for being in the final 4?


I don't know that any of the numbers we've been throwing around are accurate. As far as I know, it's never been publicized beyond 2nd place. However, I'd say they are probably reasonably close, if not precise.


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

An interesting twist would have been if Earl had won immunity. Yau would think everyone was voting Dreamz, but I'll bet that Yau would have still been blindsided.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

katbug said:


> An interesting twist would have been if Earl had won immunity. Yau would think everyone was voting Dreamz, but I'll bet that Yau would have still been blindsided.


No, because if Earl was going to betray Yau under those circumstances, it would be obvious when he didn't give Yau the hidden immunity idol. And then he'd know he was doomed, since that would be the only reason for Earl not to give it to him.


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Oooh, good point! I'd forgotten all about that last hidden II! Ok, substitute the woman in that scenario...never mind, just the fact that I can't even think of her name at the moment says enough about her chances of ever winning that II, lol.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, because if Earl was going to betray Yau under those circumstances, it would be obvious when he didn't give Yau the hidden immunity idol. And then he'd know he was doomed, since that would be the only reason for Earl not to give it to him.


The hidden immunity idol was already used when Yau won the immunity challenge when there were five people left.


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## The Flush (Aug 3, 2005)

Earl found the rehidden II based on the clue from Yau's last trip to Exile Island.


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## katbug (Oct 3, 2003)

Oh, that's right...the idol had to be used before that last II challenge! So, go back to my original thought. What if Earl had won the last II challenge. ?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

katbug said:


> Oh, that's right...the idol had to be used before that last II challenge! So, go back to my original thought. What if Earl had won the last II challenge. ?


he would have tried to convince Dreamz to go back on his word and then tried to get Yau voted out...I see no other choice...


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Anubys said:


> he would have tried to convince Dreamz to go back on his word and then tried to get Yau voted out...I see no other choice...


Dreamz wouldn't have had to 'go back on his word' since his promise was only based on him (Dreamz) winning the II. Once Earl (in theory) won the idol then Dreamz's obligation to Yau was wiped away.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jradosh said:


> Dreamz wouldn't have had to 'go back on his word' since his promise was only based on him (Dreamz) winning the II. Once Earl (in theory) won the idol then Dreamz's obligation to Yau was wiped away.


well, I feel silly now!


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Yau and Earl were my favorites, so I'm glad one of them won. 

Did anyone see Earl's appearance on Regis? I think this is where I heard this....forgive me if I am not remembering the whole story correctly.

Earl said that he was spotted in a restaurant by a casting agent and they recruited him at the last minute to go onto the show. Earl didn't apply to be on the show, they just found him and convinced him to go on the show. They originally wanted him to compete on TAR too. 

I don't for a second believe that there was any foul play involved, but I could see a problem with the fact that there are tons of people who apply for, and would love to be on the show, but a hand-picked contestant who wasn't even interested ends up winning? That can't look good.


Or have I been living in a cave and that's how these reality TV shows work these days??


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## goblue97 (May 12, 2005)

INteresting that they are recruiting cast members now rather than taking applicants. I wonder if all the applicant's are like Lisi.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

goblue97 said:


> INteresting that they are recruiting cast members now rather than taking applicants. I wonder if all the applicant's are like Lisi.


I know they did a lot of recruiting last year (when they did the racial thing, and didn't get enough decent minority applicants)...maybe they just got better contestants that way.


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## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

By now, they probably get the same applications for every season so there probably isn't that much new. They may find recruiting takes less time and has better results.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

but, other than winning, what did Earl add to the show?

he was a nice guy...no drama, no problems...is that what they want?


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## charlesml3 (Oct 13, 2005)

I guess it's time for me to beat on this horse some more.

When Dreamz said "I'm gonna keep it" I threw my dinner plate at the television. I'm sorry, but that crossed way over the line. All these promises of voting alliances and all are one thing. To accept a $60,000 truck, swear to God and then talk about how good it'll look to your kid is another. It was a despicable, reprehensible act to then welch on that promise.

Yau-man will go down as one of the top two Survivors not to win. Ozzie from last season being the other one. I was torn last year between Ozzie and Yul. Both played very, very well. But this time it was robbery. Yau deserved to win. 

I wish there were a million of us reading this thread. I'd be more than happy to organize a "Let's all one million of us send Yau $1". Heck, I'm in for $100.

-Charles


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

charlesml3 said:


> ...Yau-man will go down as one of the top two Survivors not to win. Ozzie from last season being the other one. I was torn last year between Ozzie and Yul. Both played very, very well. But this time it was robbery. Yau deserved to win...-Charles


Again, Yau's biggest mistake in the game was not offering to vote out Cassandra when he heard Dreamz say "if I give him immunity I'm going to be voted out". That was a huge game mistake for Yau and therefore he doesn't go down as a top Survivor (in my book)....


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## ced6 (Jul 30, 2003)

Yeah - in my book you can't go down as someone who "deserved" to win unless you at least make the finals. Yau did make a huge tactical mistake - unfortunately, after a very well-played game. I'm also not that mad at Dreamz. It was a stupid move - but then again, we all knew he wasn't the brightest bulb in the bunch and was prone to not keeping his word. That makes it an even bigger mistake that Yau did not talk to him before TC and offer a way out. 

As for Earl, I'm surprised that everyone thinks he was that much less deserving of a win compared to Yau. I think Earl played an incredible game, especially given that he managed to never win an individual immunity challenge, never had to use the II, and as far as I know, never really even got votes against him. This all while managing not to really tick people off (as seen by the lack of venom against him at final TC - except for a few people who wanted to just rant at everyone) even though everyone knew that he was one of the select few that were basically running the game. I, for one, was rooting for Earl all along and am very glad that he won.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I agree with Yau about Dreamz...he is a very smart person, he's just not trained to use his intelligence correctly...he needs discipline...

I've always looked at him as a classic case of someone who might have been very successful were it not for bad luck (the environment he grew up in)...


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

kettledrum said:


> I don't for a second believe that there was any foul play involved, but I could see a problem with the fact that there are tons of people who apply for, and would love to be on the show, but a hand-picked contestant who wasn't even interested ends up winning? That can't look good.
> 
> Or have I been living in a cave and that's how these reality TV shows work these days??


That's how they got Johnny Fairplay and I'm sure a number of others. Their production people are always keeping their eyes open (I think JF was found while shopping or something of that sort) for people that would "work" in the show. I think that's just how it is. It would be interesting to see the numbers mix of those who got there via the application route, and those that were "discovered".


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

It is kind of nice to have people who aren't Survivor fans on the show....it brings in new thoughts/ideas/stratagies.


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## David Platt (Dec 13, 2001)

kettledrum said:


> Earl said that he was spotted in a restaurant by a casting agent and they recruited him at the last minute to go onto the show. Earl didn't apply to be on the show, they just found him and convinced him to go on the show. They originally wanted him to compete on TAR too.
> 
> I don't for a second believe that there was any foul play involved, but I could see a problem with the fact that there are tons of people who apply for, and would love to be on the show, but a hand-picked contestant who wasn't even interested ends up winning? That can't look good.
> 
> Or have I been living in a cave and that's how these reality TV shows work these days??


That's where they get the majority of their contestants. While they still accept applications, I saw an interview with either Burnett or Probst who said that the majority of the applicants are either looking to further show business careers or just want to be on TV. He said they get much better casting by actively recruiting people to be on the show, and that 80% of people on the last few seasons of Survivor were recruited.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

David Platt said:


> That's where they get the majority of their contestants. While they still accept applications, I saw an interview with either Burnett or Probst who said that the majority of the applicants are either looking to further show business careers or just want to be on TV. He said they get much better casting by actively recruiting people to be on the show, and that 80% of people on the last few seasons of Survivor were recruited.


In general , I have no problem with this. Game is game, regardless of where the players come from.

My one nit would be when they have someone who was recruited, but has no idea of how to play, and isn't sharp enough to figure it out. There was a female from one of the last 2 or 3 seasons who was just clueless. She even admitted she was not a fan, and didn't know how to play. She was the first one voted off that season. It was a wasted position.

I realize there is prolly no way to tell this in advance, but don't make me waste 45 minutes of eyeball time with fillers.


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## JTAnderson (Jun 6, 2000)

I'm curious as to who will be responsible for the taxes on the truck, Dreamz or Yau. Yau won the truck, so I suspect he may be liable for the taxes. As far as I know, gifts to Dreamz are not tax-deductable.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

JTAnderson said:


> I'm curious as to who will be responsible for the taxes on the truck, Dreamz or Yau. Yau won the truck, so I suspect he may be liable for the taxes. As far as I know, gifts to Dreamz are not tax-deductable.


This has been beaten to death in the thread on the episode where the deal was made.

The final conclusion was, "it's up to the network". CBS will make out the paperwork and when they do they'll write down either Yau or Dreamz as the recipient, and that person will be the one liable for the taxes. The IRS doesn't care about reward challenges, Survivor deals, etc. All they care about is the paperwork that gets filed.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

anyone planning on checking out the pirates reality show they've been hyping on Survivor?


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

madscientist said:


> This has been beaten to death in the thread on the episode where the deal was made.
> 
> The final conclusion was, "it's up to the network". CBS will make out the paperwork and when they do they'll write down either Yau or Dreamz as the recipient, and that person will be the one liable for the taxes. The IRS doesn't care about reward challenges, Survivor deals, etc. All they care about is the paperwork that gets filed.


Anyone know if they covered this in post-finale interviews with either of the two?

EDIT: After some Googling, it appears he's not the one who pays the taxes:



> So, does he have to pay taxes on the truck anyway?
> 
> "I didn't touch it. The title never touched me," Chan says. "I'm in the clear."


http://www.insidebayarea.com/bayarealiving/ci_5899608


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