# TiVo Bolt is out!



## consumedsoul

http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/29/9419725/tivo-bolt-review-walt-mossberg


----------



## jfalkingham

Just hit WSJ:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/tivo-bo...-not-to-cut-cable-1443585301?mod=djemonwine_t

of course nothing on tivo.com


----------



## wazzupg

"Also, the user interface is now almost entirely HD, except for two subsections of the settings menu."
from theverge.com article on the bolt.

Still can't believe they can't get all the menus in HD. Is this not a priority for Tivo or what? This is probably the thing that bugs me the most about Tivo. Wonder if the additional HD menus will come to roamio?


----------



## wazzupg

SkipMode looks like an awesome feature! I hope this feature makes it way to roamio! I don't have high hopes for this, since I saw a screen shot showing roamio without this feature and the bolt with-it.


----------



## TazExprez

It's on the TiVo site right now.


----------



## skypros

I like the BOLT.... Love the white remote and like the odd shape of the DVR.... I think I could even love the White (vs black) DVR housing.

Congrats TIVO, you made a statement...... And I think you will get allot of attention!!


----------



## aaronwt

skypros said:


> I like the BOLT.... Love the white remote and like the odd shape of the DVR.... I think I could even love the White (vs black) DVR housing.
> 
> Congrats TIVO, you made a statement...... And I think you will get allot of attention!!


But is it worth the $900(500GB) or $1000(1TB) total cost to get it with lifetime service?


----------



## SicEm08

Is it just me or is the option of lifetime service gone from the website for both the Roamio and the new Bolt?


----------



## TazExprez

aaronwt said:


> But is it worth the $900(500GB) or $1000(1TB) total cost to get it with lifetime service?


Refurbished Roamio boxes with PLs probably just increased in price now.


----------



## aaronwt

SicEm08 said:


> Is it just me or is the option of lifetime service gone from the website for both the Roamio and the new Bolt?


It's called "All In" service now. The Bolt includes a year of service and after that year you can get "All In" aka Lifetime for $599.99 or pay yearly at $149.99.

The Terms of service does say that if you get it directly from TiVo that you can get the "All In" service upfront. But I didn't notice where there was any change in the price. There might have been and I didn't notice it. But definitely if you get it from retail you don't have the option to get "All In" service until the first year is up.

EDIT: Based on the other thread I may have misread that. It sounds like they force you to decide to get the Lifetime/All In service upon activation. If so then you would never really have a year of service included. Which is even worse.


----------



## toughcrowd

Pay a grand for two less tuners and 2 tb less storage. Ooph. Most people will have 4K Netflix and other streaming services built in on their 4K TVs. This thing is a disaster.


----------



## toughcrowd

It's interesting, before today anyone who didn't get lifetime was a moron. Now anyone who gets a lifetime is a moron. Depressing.


----------



## HeatherA

TiVo always seems to price their new boxes ridiculously. I'll wait a few months and get in when they have a deal on lifetime.


----------



## LSpera

toughcrowd said:


> Pay a grand for two less tuners and 2 tb less storage. Ooph. Most people will have 4K Netflix and other streaming services built in on their 4K TVs. This thing is a disaster.


I agree.. why would I want to give up my 3TB and 6 tuners? Makes no sense. I have 4k Netflix, Amazon and Ultraflix built into my TV. I was really looking forward to this box and I'm terribly disappointed.


----------



## gfgray

They seem to have given the OTA box everything the Roamio Pro / Plus already had plus more features and speed. Someone please report back if it finally has HDMI-CEC.


----------



## andyw715

toughcrowd said:


> Pay a grand for two less tuners and 2 tb less storage. Ooph. Most people will have 4K Netflix and other streaming services built in on their 4K TVs. This thing is a disaster.


Also IIRC (from the 4K TV thread in Happy Hour) many of the 4K TVs require the use of the internal apps (ie Netflix) to get that 4K content. Of course that will change once 4K gains market share, but by that time it would be time for a new TiVo.


----------



## bmgoodman

aaronwt said:


> It's called "All In" service now. The Bolt includes a year of service and after that year you can get "All In" aka Lifetime for $599.99 or pay yearly at $149.99.


At $600, no wonder they're calling it "All In"! Just push your wallet to the center of the table, please.


----------



## kaufmg123

1. As stated it is ugly. Who puts a white appliance in their entertainment system? Has anyone ever seen a white TV?
2. 4 tuners? I mean really! Should have improved it to 8.
3. More than a little upset that when I purchased the Roamio last year phone support assured me the Roamio would be upgraded to 4k.
4. Mini does not support 4k so you can only watch it on one TV.

I'll pass. Maybe they will get it right with the next one.


----------



## aaronwt

LSpera said:


> I agree.. why would I want to give up my 3TB and 6 tuners? Makes no sense. I have 4k Netflix, Amazon and Ultraflix built into my TV. I was really looking forward to this box and I'm terribly disappointed.


And you can get also access to the 4K streams with the new FireTV for only $99. Coming out next week.


----------



## aaronwt

kaufmg123 said:


> 1. As stated it is ugly. Who puts a white appliance in their entertainment system? Has anyone ever seen a white TV?
> 2. 4 tuners? I mean really! Should have improved it to 8.
> 3. More than a little upset that when I purchased the Roamio last year phone support assured me the Roamio would be upgraded to 4k.
> 4. Mini does not support 4k so you can only watch it on one TV.
> 
> I'll pass. Maybe they will get it right with the next one.


Upgrading the Roamio to 4K would only be possible if the chipset supported it. The Bolt can decode VP9 and HEVC which is used for 4K streaming. The Roamio cannot decode those formats.


----------



## andyw715

kaufmg123 said:


> 1. As stated it is ugly. Who puts a white appliance in their entertainment system? Has anyone ever seen a white TV?


You just wait for Apple's Silver, Gold, and Rose Gold TV's next year


----------



## Thunderclap

wazzupg said:


> SkipMode looks like an awesome feature! I hope this feature makes it way to roamio! I don't have high hopes for this, since I saw a screen shot showing roamio without this feature and the bolt with-it.


According to the Engadget review it won't be coming to older models. It's a Bolt exclusive.


----------



## trip1eX

HeatherA said:


> TiVo always seems to price their new boxes ridiculously. I'll wait a few months and get in when they have a deal on lifetime.


Yep so true. This could be hundreds cheaper with lifetime in 6 months. I would not be surprised.


----------



## trip1eX

andyw715 said:


> You just wait for Apple's Silver, Gold, and Rose Gold TV's next year


I don't know. Even Apple's new ATV is black.

This despite the colors of the phones and the gold macbook and the white router etc.


----------



## trip1eX

I did read Netflix has a bug that causes it to freeze. Tivo says a fix will be coming. Deja Vu.


----------



## trip1eX

bmgoodman said:


> At $600, no wonder they're calling it "All In"! Just push your wallet to the center of the table, please.


Yeah they want to make lifetime sound risky so they change the name.

Much better for the customer to pay monthly from Tivo's point of view.


----------



## jacbec

...agree, although I guess I could spray paint it black, but still might not fit in my entertainment center. Only thing I like is the commercial skip button &#8212; and I assume it doesn't work with DirectTV.


----------



## tomhorsley

I'll wait till TiVo survives the storm of lawsuits that skip mode will bring before I buy one to get that feature .


----------



## Thunderclap

tomhorsley said:


> I'll wait till TiVo survives the storm of lawsuits that skip mode will bring before I buy one to get that feature .


The way it sounded to me is that select broadcasters (20 or so) are allowing it. If they are then I doubt there will be lawsuits.


----------



## wmcbrine

Thunderclap said:


> The way it sounded to me is that select broadcasters (20 or so) are allowing it.


That's not it. The limitation is just due to needing human manpower behind the feature. The channels are the top 20 most watched (that have commercials).


----------



## Dan203

kaufmg123 said:


> 1. As stated it is ugly. Who puts a white appliance in their entertainment system? Has anyone ever seen a white TV?
> 2. 4 tuners? I mean really! Should have improved it to 8.
> 3. More than a little upset that when I purchased the Roamio last year phone support assured me the Roamio would be upgraded to 4k.
> 4. Mini does not support 4k so you can only watch it on one TV.
> 
> I'll pass. Maybe they will get it right with the next one.


1) Agreed
2) Agreed. Although 6 tuners is the max for CableCARDs so 8 tuners wouldn't have been practical as it would have required 2 cards
3) Impossible. The Roamio doesn't have the hardware to support 4K. Not only does it not have the decoders it doesn't have HDMI 2.0.
4) There is no 4K content to record anyway, so this is a nonissue. 4K is limited to the streaming apps (Netflix and Amazon) right now.


----------



## tarheelblue32

wmcbrine said:


> That's not it. The limitation is just due to needing human manpower behind the feature. The channels are the top 20 most watched (that have commercials).


It's no wonder that lifetime "all-in" service got more expensive. It just got a lot more labor intensive.



Dan203 said:


> 2) Agreed. Although 6 tuners is the max for CableCARDs so 8 tuners wouldn't have been practical as it would have required 2 cards.


There are CableCards that support 8 tuners.


----------



## krkaufman

wmcbrine said:


> That's not it. The limitation is just due to needing human manpower behind the feature. The channels are the top 20 most watched (that have commercials).


I have to wonder how much of the bump in hardware/service cost is attributable to the labor costs associated w/ the Skip Mode feature. TiVo service is starting to feel more like cable TV, where everyone is paying a higher price to subsidize the costs of programming, regardless of whether you ever watch a given channel (or set of channels).


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> kaufmg123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Mini does not support 4k so you can only watch it on one TV.
> 
> 
> 
> 4) There is no 4K content to record anyway, so this is a nonissue. 4K is limited to the streaming apps (Netflix and Amazon) right now.
Click to expand...

Well, it's an issue if you have more than one 4K television and would like to employ TiVo's whole home DVR solution and enjoy their "Unified Entertainment System" experience. As things stand currently, you'll be looking at having to buy both a TiVo Mini and potentially some other 4K streamer for the additional sets (or rely on the 4K TV's built-in streaming apps), short of the promoted unified experience outside the Bolt-connected 4K TV.

edit: p.s. This marketing blurb from the Amazon Bolt page would lead most novices to believe that they could expect 4K streaming via their Mini paired with a 4K-capable Bolt...


> Watch on every TV without added service fees.
> 
> *TiVo Mini is the all-purpose companion to your TiVo BOLT.* Delivering Tru Multi Room control, *TiVo Mini gives you the exact same TiVo experience on additional TVs in your home*(7), including access to streaming content from Amazon Prime, Netflix and more.(1) Plus, you get all your favorite TiVo controls, like SkipMode, QuickMode, pause and rewind. Best of all, each TiVo Mini you add in your house requires no additional service feepotentially saving you hundreds a year compared to other solutions.


----------



## Scarpad

I bought a roamio Ota a few months ago, I went for monthly primarily because time shifting is becoming lass and lass necessary as streaming apps and services become available. At this point I would not invest the money in the bolt as the Roamio will prob be the last dvr I'll use


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

tarheelblue32 said:


> There are CableCards that support 8 tuners.


Not deployed in the field.


----------



## Dan203

tarheelblue32 said:


> It's no wonder that lifetime "all-in" service got more expensive. It just got a lot more labor intensive.


While I'm sure it costs something I doubt it's that labor intensive. I could use VideoReDo to mark the commercials in an hour long program in about a minute. In fact with some data you could make that even faster. Specific networks have distinct patterns to the timing of their commercial blocks. In fact we were recently discussing adding profiles to the ad detective feature in VideoReDo that would allow it to only look for commercials in specific places based on the network the show came from as a way to speed it up. It's really quite predictable for most shows.


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> While I'm sure it costs something I doubt it's that labor intensive. I could use VideoReDo to mark the commercials in an hour long program in about a minute. In fact with some data you could make that even faster. Specific networks have distinct patterns to the timing of their commercial blocks. In fact we were recently discussing adding profiles to the ad detective feature in VideoReDo that would allow it to only look for commercials in specific places based on the network the show came from as a way to speed it up. It's really quite predictable for most shows.


It'd be interesting if VRD could learn from feedback provided following any manual adjustments to the automated commercial markings, further improving accuracy over time.


----------



## Dan203

krkaufman said:


> It'd be interesting if VRD could learn from feedback provided following any manual adjustments to the automated commercial markings, further improving accuracy over time.


One thing you can do now is in recent betas there is a feature to apply a project file to the open video. If the commercials are as predictable as I think they are you could find them once in a given show, save the project, and then simply apply that project to subsequent episodes. Although if the network timing is shifted slightly it might not be exact, but it should give you a really good starting point.


----------



## thefisch

Dan203 said:


> While I'm sure it costs something I doubt it's that labor intensive. I could use VideoReDo to mark the commercials in an hour long program in about a minute. In fact with some data you could make that even faster. Specific networks have distinct patterns to the timing of their commercial blocks. In fact we were recently discussing adding profiles to the ad detective feature in VideoReDo that would allow it to only look for commercials in specific places based on the network the show came from as a way to speed it up. It's really quite predictable for most shows.


If they were doing it with software it would be cheap, but they are supposedly doing it with people. Since they raised the PLS fee for the roamio line by $100, they really should deliver on these additional services like skip mode so you get an equivalent level of service.


----------



## Dan203

thefisch said:


> If they were doing it with software it would be cheap, but they are supposedly doing it with people. Since they raised the PLS fee for the roamio line by $100, they really should deliver on these additional services like skip mode so you get an equivalent level of service.


Software is not accurate enough to produce the final markers, but it's accurate enough to provide a place for the people to look. I'm betting they use some sort of pre-processing to mark the in/outs automatically and then just use a human to verify/adjust them.


----------



## rick123

I've been with TiVo since 2004. I will still say it is the best interface out there for those of us willing to stay with the Cable MSOs. The interface is worth paying for.

That said, REALLY TiVo? This almost seems like a seems like a joke, except TiVO is well known for it's disappointing, not-really-ready-for-prime-time hardware and software releases.

I have held onto my 2 Premiere units without upgrading to Roamio. I was happy with the slower (although I don't really notice if it is actually slower as I have nothing to compare to) response time. My main upgrade goal was to wait for the next upgrade model to get a 6 tuner model so that we would not have to "manage" the to-do list of our 2 tuner model. That obviously is not an option. 

Our 2 TB hard drives are both consistently about 50-60% full. Even the 1 TB option is useless to me. I would guess you can probably upgrade the hard drives, but at $1000 for "all-in" (Holy Sh-t!!!) shouldn't I get more than 1TB? (I love the push-your-wallet-into-the-center-of-the-table analogy LOL). 

I don't need 4K (and won't care for many years) and the "skip all" commercials is nice but not a must have (seems "stupid" that they would have actual employees watching tv just to time the commercial breaks LOL!!!). And REALLY TiVo, STILL don't have all HD menus?!!! 

I don't come to the TiVo community often anymore vs the early years, but I just had to stop by and comment on this JOKE of an upgrade. A huge downgrade of # of tuners and storage and a lack of meaningful improvements (not to mention the unstackable design, maybe it will fit in a game console upright stand?) make this a huge miss for TiVo IMO. 

I'll be hitting the used Roamio with lifetime section of ebay for a 6 tuner model while I wait for the next version in 2017-18. 

When TiVo loyal customers can be so greatly disappointed can there be any other conclusion than TiVo totally F'ed up? Maybe I'll be proved wrong, but I know and love TiVo and have followed the company along with using their products for over a decade. This is a FAIL, and all you have to do is look at the TiVo company stock today to see it is still down in an up market; nobody cares about this... 

I see no reason for the average TiVo customer to consider an upgrade of a Premiere or Roamio unit, and as a long time TiVo user I would not even recommend a new Bolt to someone considering TiVo for the first time. Better to recommend a used 4 tuner Premiere or 6 tuner Roamio and lifetime than this new Bolt model.


----------



## aristoBrat

rick123 said:


> When TiVo loyal customers can be so greatly disappointed can there be any other conclusion than TiVo totally F'ed up?


I swear, TiVo is second only to Apple when it comes to "loyal customers" that assume that _their_ personal preferences represent the market that the company should be designing to, and that anything other than that is a mistake.


----------



## magnox

Does it do hbo go now? im confused by the market for this device? its got a tiny harddrive and doesn't even cover all the online content providers? makes no sense.


----------



## bradleys

@rick123

We have gathered from Dave that TiVo pushed the 4 tuner unit out initially to get on the shelves before the holiday season. So higher capacity / more tuners with likely different designs will be coming soon.

As for the pricing, TiVo continues to try new pricing mechanisms... This one is meh, for us long term users but I suspect will be well received by "new" customers.

Be patient and I suspect the old model will be revised in short order.

Also, this might be the time to by a used or refurbished Roamio. Simple Hardrive upgrades and most of the intriguing software updates will be migrated down.


----------



## jth tv

Per TiVo.com "Now skip over entire commercial breaks at the press of a button". 

Since the user initiates the skip, it is the length of the commercial break that would need to be measured/predicted.

How well does Dish AutoHop work ? 100% 50% ?


----------



## Dan203

jth tv said:


> Per TiVo.com "Now skip over entire commercial breaks at the press of a button".
> 
> Since the user initiates the skip, it is the length of the commercial break that would need to be measured/predicted.
> 
> How well does Dish AutoHop work ? 100% 50% ?


They both use humans to determine the in/out points of the commercials so they are 100% accurate. However the data isn't available immediately so it doesn't work if you watch live, semi-live or even immediately after the show ends.


----------



## tomhorsley

Dan203 said:


> They both use humans to determine the in/out points of the commercials so they are 100% accurate. However the data isn't available immediately so it doesn't work if you watch live, semi-live or even immediately after the show ends.


But it could . I've always thought this could be one thing a "social media" app would be good at: Folks watching live could "tweet" the beginning and end of commercials and the data could be combined to see if lots of folks agree and also to take into account historical accuracy of different users.

Now you don't have to pay anyone to provide the data, the TiVo users provide it for each other in return for the sheer joy of sticking it to the advertisers .


----------



## zerdian1

BOLT is orderable today and will ship around Oct 4t from AMAZON.

Product Details
TiVo BOLT 500GB Unified Entertainment System - DVR and Streaming Media Player Oct 4, 2015
by TiVo
$299.00Prime
Product Features
Includes first year of TiVo Service ($149 per year thereafter)
Electronics:See all 2 items

Product Details
TiVo BOLT 1TB Unified Entertainment System - DVR and Streaming Media Player Oct 4, 2015
by TiVo
$399.00Prime
Product Features
Includes first year of TiVo Service ($149 per year thereafter)
Electronics:See all 2 items


----------



## gigaguy

This initial Bolt is aimed squarely at getting newbies (and money) streaming in. Including the fee in the price shows that. Most current Tivoites, esp Roamio owners are not the target for this Bolt...


----------



## randian

How much extra cpu power does the Bolt have? I haven't seen any real specs yet.


----------



## tarheelblue32

gigaguy said:


> This initial Bolt is aimed squarely at getting newbies (and money) streaming in. Including the fee in the price shows that. Most current Tivoites, esp Roamio owners are not the target for this Bolt...


Including the first year of service in the purchase price is probably a good strategy for TiVo. It also makes sense that they would want to eliminate or at least hide the monthly and lifetime options as they have done in order to try to simplify things for average consumers. I do expect that eventually the lifetime service at a more reasonable price will return.


----------



## jcthorne

randian said:


> How much extra cpu power does the Bolt have? I haven't seen any real specs yet.


Dave Zatz reported Bolt at 11000 mips with Roamio at 3000 for comparison. Also 3GB of memory.


----------



## Dan203

So roughly 4x the CPU and 3x the memory compared to Roamio, which was already pretty fast.


----------



## tarheelblue32

Dan203 said:


> So roughly 4x the CPU and 3x the memory compared to Roamio, which was already pretty fast.


And 1/3 the storage, and 2/3 the tuners. It feels like 2 steps forward and 1 step back on the hardware side.


----------



## atmuscarella

Details on specs are listed in this article: http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt/?ftag=CAD1acfa04&bhid=21384817434472324605983066965727


----------



## krkaufman

tarheelblue32 said:


> And 1/3 the storage, and 2/3 the tuners. It feels like 2 steps forward and 1 step back on the hardware side.


Not compared to the 4-tuner model it is replacing.


----------



## krkaufman

tomhorsley said:


> But it could . I've always thought this could be one thing a "social media" app would be good at: Folks watching live could "tweet" the beginning and end of commercials and the data could be combined to see if lots of folks agree and also to take into account historical accuracy of different users.
> 
> Now you don't have to pay anyone to provide the data, the TiVo users provide it for each other in return for the sheer joy of sticking it to the advertisers .


This *could* be useful, even if you had to manage your own set of "trusted" users from whom you'd accept such bookmarks. Such just-in-time bookmarking could also prove useful for altering recording start/stop times when life gets in the way of a scheduled recording (e.g. sports games running long).


----------



## krkaufman

atmuscarella said:


> Details on specs are listed in this article: http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt/?ftag=CAD1acfa04&bhid=21384817434472324605983066965727


Oh, I hadn't seen this highlighted previously...

_For instance, to go along with the new design, TiVo has added station graphics, freshening the look of the program guide. _​
edit: p.s. Screenshot, from CNET video... (It looks like they need some help beefing up their graphics library, but it's a start.)


----------



## tarheelblue32

krkaufman said:


> Not compared to the 4-tuner model it is replacing.


It is replacing both the 4-tuner and 6-tuner models, so it is a fair comparison.


----------



## Dan203

tarheelblue32 said:


> And 1/3 the storage, and 2/3 the tuners. It feels like 2 steps forward and 1 step back on the hardware side.


Yeah they really need a "Pro" version. Although it feels like maybe they're focusing more on the Streaming part so maybe they don't think we need as many tuners and as much HDD space. I hope not.


----------



## SteveGraham

Total fricken newb here. Feel free to deride/correct/demean if appropriate for paying my dues here.

I almost took Tivo up on the special that ended yesterday (Roamio HD/Basic for Cable + lifetime for ~$400). The only thing that held me back was that the Basic Roamio only has 100Mb ethernet ports. I also didn't want to buy lifetime service when I am a new user. I would like to decide if I like Tivo first.

I saw the new Bolt today. It has 1Gb ethernet now. It also has upgraded WiFi and can use AC now in addition to a/b/g/n. That was huge. The 4k is nice, but won't be super useful until the cable channels are supporting it.

I could live without the cosmetics, but that is a personal note.

At $399 for 1G storage + 1 year of service it now looks right with the bandwidth upgrades. I am going to need two separate devices + 3 Minis (me, my wife, and her parents who live with us). I think that just sold me on the whole system.


----------



## gigaguy

Great! Tivo and Tivo fans love new Tivo buyers and maybe you can bang out the Bolt's kinky bend. My Premiere has 2TB and my Roamio has 3TB so I don't think I could go to 1TB but I'm glad Tivo is still updating...


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> Yeah they really need a "Pro" version. Although it feels like maybe they're focusing more on the Streaming part so maybe they don't think we need as many tuners and as much HDD space. I hope not.


I expect a Bolt "Pro" is in the works, along w/ an OTA-only model, and a 4K-capable Mini. (Though I have to wonder if the OTA-only model is needed. How much can they save cost-wise, stripping out the CableCARD slot? Or is there some CableLabs licensing fee TiVo saves on when the CableCARD slot isn't physically present, kind of like MS dropping MPEG2 support in Win8?)


----------



## tarheelblue32

krkaufman said:


> I expect a Bolt "Pro" is in the works, along w/ an OTA-only model, and a 4K-capable Mini. (Though I have to wonder if the OTA-only model is needed. How much can they save cost-wise, stripping out the CableCARD slot? Or is there some CableLabs licensing fee TiVo saves on when the CableCARD slot isn't physically present, kind of like MS dropping MPEG2 support in Win8?)


There is a licensing fee they pay to CableLabs for having a CableCard slot in a device. Not sure how much it is, but it's probably significant enough to justify an OTA-only model.


----------



## Dan203

krkaufman said:


> I expect a Bolt "Pro" is in the works, along w/ an OTA-only model, and a 4K-capable Mini. (Though I have to wonder if the OTA-only model is needed. How much can they save cost-wise, stripping out the CableCARD slot? Or is there some CableLabs licensing fee TiVo saves on when the CableCARD slot isn't physically present, kind of like MS dropping MPEG2 support in Win8?)


There is definitely an OTA model. We already know it's model number and that it will be called the "Aereo edition".

There have been no confirmed reports about a "pro" or a new Mini.


----------



## tarheelblue32

Dan203 said:


> There is definitely an OTA model. We already know it's model number and that it will be called the "Aereo edition".
> 
> There have been no confirmed reports about a "pro" or a new Mini.


If they ever make a Bolt Pro, it better have 8 tuners.


----------



## Dan203

tarheelblue32 said:


> If they ever make a Bolt Pro, it better have 8 tuners.


Why? There are no 8 tuner CableCARDs actually deployed in the field so two of them would just sit unused anyway.


----------



## krkaufman

Dan203 said:


> Why? There are no 8 tuner CableCARDs actually deployed in the field so two of them would just sit unused anyway.


Mostly, I doubt TiVo would want to take on 8-tuner M-Cards as a technical hurdle, given the hassle experienced getting 6-tuner cards operational.


----------



## Anotherpyr

So I wasn't seeing things when I couldn't find a price for lifetime service on it.


----------



## aaronwt

Anotherpyr said:


> So I wasn't seeing things when I couldn't find a price for lifetime service on it.


Yes it's called "All In" now and costs $599.99.


----------



## tarheelblue32

aaronwt said:


> Yes it's called "All In" now and costs $599.99.


I wonder if the "PLSR" code would still work to get you $100 off that price.


----------



## krkaufman

aaronwt said:


> Yes it's called "All In" now and costs $599.99.


Only, curiously, *the "All In" plan isn't really "all in"* -- per the footnote fine print on the Amazon Bolt page:
_(3) ... If you elect to upgrade your service subscription to an All-In Plan, then such All-In Plan (a) will last for the lifetime of your TiVo BOLT unit (not your lifetime), (b) is not transferrable to another TiVo device (except in certain warranty replacement/repair cases), and *(c) may exclude certain TiVo offerings (e.g., for third-party content, particular applications, cloud-based services, etc.)* for which TiVo subsequently may elect (in its sole discretion) to charge separately and which are not made generally available to all customers who have activated TiVo service on a TiVo BOLT._​


----------



## blips

So they make you pay the first year of service in the price of the unit AND if you want all in it is another $600? So that is really $750 for the All In.


----------



## krkaufman

blips said:


> So they make you pay the first year of service in the price of the unit AND if you want all in it is another $600? So that is really $750 for the All In.


Yes, correct.


----------



## tarheelblue32

blips said:


> So they make you pay the first year of service in the price of the unit AND if you want all in it is another $600? So that is really $750 for the All In.


Exactly my point in another thread. Lifetime went from $400 (with MSD) to $750. That's a 94% increase.


----------



## aaronwt

tarheelblue32 said:


> Exactly my point in another thread. Lifetime went from $400 (with MSD) to $750. That's a 94% increase.


But where is the $150 coming from? If you go to the Roamio page. There is a $100 difference between the Roamio with a year of service included and a Roamio with $15 monthly service. $599 with one year of service or $499 plus a year of service at $14.99 a month.

Do we know for sure that TiVo is not reducing the price for the Bolt if you select the All In service? You have to contact TiVo to get that option.


----------



## tarheelblue32

aaronwt said:


> But where is the $150 coming from? If you go to the Roamio page. There is a $100 difference between the Roamio with a year of service included and a Roamio with $15 monthly service. $599 with one year of service or $499 plus a year of service at $14.99 a month.
> 
> Do we know for sure that TiVo is not reducing the price for the Bolt if you select the All In service? You have to contact TiVo to get that option.


I guess we don't know it for sure, but there is no indication anywhere that I can find on their redesigned website that makes me think that would happen.


----------



## thopper46

That's basically what it is with some interface updates as mention in its site; recently bought the Roamio OTA with lifetime service for $299.99, same price they are currently asking for the Bolt with 1 years service, if you look at the Roamio, it was $49.99(Roamio OTA), with $249.99 life time service total price($299.99), same price as the Bolt except you'll now pay $149.99 each year for service, so I'll pass until they come up with a reasonable lifetime service price. Be glad to pay $99.99 for Bolt with $249.99 life time service. Roku 4 is suppose to come out tomorrow(10/01/2015), if price is right I'll probably go with Roku 4. I don't believe a lot of customers are going to be happy with the current yearly service price as is proposed..


----------



## tarheelblue32

thopper46 said:


> That's basically what it is with some interface updates as mention in its site; recently bought the Roamio OTA with lifetime service for $299.99, same price they are currently asking for the Bolt with 1 years service, if you look at the Roamio, it was $49.99(Roamio OTA), with $249.99 life time service total price($299.99), same price as the Bolt except you'll now pay $149.99 each year for service, so I'll pass until they come up with a reasonable lifetime service price. Be glad to pay $99.99 for Bolt with $249.99 life time service. Roku 4 is suppose to come out tomorrow(10/01/2015), if price is right I'll probably go with Roku 4. I don't believe a lot of customers are going to be happy with the current yearly service price as is proposed..


If TiVo could survive as a company selling retail DVRs at that price, then I'm sure they would....but they can't.


----------



## ort

I really love this new update.

I love it because it doesn't make me want to upgrade my Roamio at all.


----------



## zerdian1

wazzupg said:


> SkipMode looks like an awesome feature! I hope this feature makes it way to roamio! I don't have high hopes for this, since I saw a screen shot showing roamio without this feature and the bolt with-it.


I think all TiVo Series 5 Roamio updates will now be few and far between, if not stopped altogether.

TiVo will be concentrating on TiVo Series 6 BOLT.
So far they have only introduced the low end BOLT machines and it drastic increase in Lifetime support and no discount for all their millions of current customers. 
For me that raises the cost of Lifetime service from $399 to $599.


----------



## wmcbrine

zerdian1 said:


> I think all TiVo Series 5 Roamio updates will now be few and far between, if not stopped altogether.


They've been updating the Series 4 (Premiere) the whole time the Series 5 has been out, and keeping it on par to the extent possible.


----------



## wtherrell

skypros said:


> I like the BOLT.... Love the white remote and like the odd shape of the DVR.... I think I could even love the White (vs black) DVR housing.
> 
> Congrats TIVO, you made a statement...... And I think you will get allot of attention!!


What he said, except the opposite of everything.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Dang, how'd that "sent from" sig get back on there?


----------



## magnox

Dan203 said:


> Why? There are no 8 tuner CableCARDs actually deployed in the field so two of them would just sit unused anyway.


I would doubt the pro would be cablecard based - dumped in favor of ip based security - probably why they rushed a basic bolt out as cablecard is close to done.


----------



## tarheelblue32

magnox said:


> I would doubt the pro would be cablecard based - dumped in favor of ip based security - probably why they rushed a basic bolt out as cablecard is close to done.


An IP-based security standard is years away at best, and at worst may never come.


----------



## magnox

tarheelblue32 said:


> An IP-based security standard is years away at best, and at worst may never come.


Its not years away - especially with the cablecard rule ending December 31st.


----------



## krkaufman

tarheelblue32 said:


> An IP-based security standard is years away at best, and at worst may never come.


Check the Q&A w/ Ira Bahr... here.


----------



## DevdogAZ

Dan203 said:


> Why? There are no 8 tuner CableCARDs actually deployed in the field so two of them would just sit unused anyway.


Maybe they could put in OTA compatibility like the older TiVos had, where you could feed the box two different types of signals and the tuners could be used interchangeably for any of the recorded programs. Add that along with 6+ tuners and 3 TB of storage and then they'd have a true "Pro" model to market.


----------



## Dan203

magnox said:


> Its not years away - especially with the cablecard rule ending December 31st.


The CableCARD rule isn't ending December 31st! The law that changed is the integration ban. Which means that cable companies are no longer required to include CableCARDs in their own boxes. (every box you rent from the cable company now has a CableCARD inside it somewhere) They are still required to support CableCARDs for 3rd party devices until a suitable replacement is agreed to and deployed, which is likely years away.


----------



## Dan203

DevdogAZ said:


> Maybe they could put in OTA compatibility like the older TiVos had, where you could feed the box two different types of signals and the tuners could be used interchangeably for any of the recorded programs. Add that along with 6+ tuners and 3 TB of storage and then they'd have a true "Pro" model to market.


While that would be cool, I think it might be too expensive. As much as I like new toys I'm not going to buy a Bolt Pro if it costs $1,000 + service.


----------



## magnox

Dan203 said:


> The CableCARD rule isn't ending December 31st! The law that changed is the integration ban. Which means that cable companies are no longer required to include CableCARDs in their own boxes. (every box you rent from the cable company now has a CableCARD inside it somewhere) They are still required to support CableCARDs for 3rd party devices until a suitable replacement is agreed to and deployed, which is likely years away.


Yes i know; thats the rule im talking about but it means they can use alternatives in their own devices. We dont even have a release date for a bolt pro but thats likely and ip based authentication isnt? who knows. And there may be no pro for sometime if they are still keeping the roamio pro.


----------



## Dan203

There was a committee convened by the FCC recently that just submitted their proposals last month. They're currently taking public comment on them now. However the committee that came up with CableCARD submitted their proposal to the FCC in 1998 with an original deadline of July 2001. The MSOs drug their feet and kept applying for extensions until the final deadline was imposed in July 2007. So that's 9 years between proposal and implementation. While I don't think this one will take as long, it's still probably going to take a few years.


----------



## krkaufman

magnox said:


> Yes i know; thats the rule im talking about but it means they can use alternatives in their own devices. We dont even have a release date for a bolt pro but thats likely and ip based authentication isnt? who knows. And there may be no pro for sometime if they are still keeping the roamio pro.


See the Ira Bahr Q&A, here.


----------



## dugbug

My OCD makes me want to push the bolt flat


----------



## HarperVision

dugbug said:


> My OCD makes me want to push the bolt flat


Hahahaha! Then you could just call it the "Blot"!


----------



## krkaufman

dugbug said:


> My OCD makes me want to push the bolt flat


I was thinking that it needed a couple footies, to bring the main length of the body parallel to the table surface. (At the risk of messing w/ the cooling flow.)


----------



## tarheelblue32

krkaufman said:


> I was thinking that it needed a couple footies, to bring the main length of the body parallel to the table surface. (At the risk of messing w/ the cooling flow.)


I'd be more worried about keeping the hard drive level.

I think I would have liked the Bolt better if they had made it in the shape of a lightning bolt.


----------



## HarperVision

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'd be more worried about keeping the hard drive level. I think I would have liked the Bolt better if they had made it in the shape of a lightning bolt.


Put two side by side and it might look like that.


----------



## Andrew_S

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'd be more worried about keeping the hard drive level.


Why? Hard disks don't need to be level, they need to be stable.


----------



## jonw747

Andrew_S said:


> Why? Hard disks don't need to be level, they need to be stable.


Perhaps, but most hard drives that aren't level are vertical. Is the hard drive in the bolt actually slanted?


----------



## bearcat2000

True, but it is easier on them if they are horizontal. Just a fact of gravity.


----------

