# Xfinity Stream Beta App is Not Free for Some People and Poll



## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

Many people have a TiVo or other cablecard device and are able to watch and record HD channels using Comcast's traditional cable television service without paying extra to enable the HD channels. This is not always the case, and some people with just one cablecard and no other equipment from Comcast are charged extra for the HD channels. Some people that do not pay an additional HD fee and want to use the Xfinity Stream Beta app will not have access to the HD channels using the app. The additional fee to add the HD channels if it is not already included in the package is currently $10. This has been discussed on the Xfinity VOD app thread in a cursory manner, and as indicated in that thread and many others in this forum, many people are able to access HD channels on Comcast with a TiVo without paying an additional fee.

For the people as described above with traditional cable that do not have the HD fee included in their package and want to use a Roku with the app to access HD channels will need to pay extra.



Comcast employee on ‎09-03-2019 at https://forums.xfinity.com/t5/XFINITY-Stream-Website/Xfinity-Stream-Beta-App-has-no-HD-channels/td-p/3254653 said:


> There was an issue previously where customers were receiving HD programming on their Roku devices that did not have HD services included with their package. We have since corrected this and anyone not paying for HD service in their Comcast television package will no longer receive HD service on their Roku devices.


Comcast has indicated there may be additional charges in the future when the beta phase is completed. According to a recent rate card, Digital Starter includes a cable box for the primary outlet only and requires the additional HD fee for HD programming. There currently is no additional outlet fee for using the app, but Comcast has indicated there may be a charge for this in the future. No one except maybe Comcast knows for sure if there will be additional charges, but it is something to keep in mind. Also, Comcast has not indicated how long the beta phase will last.



















Some people feel that cablecard technology is antiquated, and it is time to move to newer technology. Cablecard technology will eventally not be supported, but would you recommend to someone who pays for their cable service as part of their home owners association or condo fee and wants to save money that the time to move away from cablecard technology is now? For this poll, please assume that a person is considering a TiVo with multiple minis or other cablecard compatible devices versus a Roku, and the person does not currently pay Comcast directly for Digital Starter cable service but would pay Comcast directly for any additional applicable charges. Please assume that Digital Starter is the preferred service, and the person has the cheapest Comcast internet service that is paid directly. Also, please assume the person wants to be able record content and view content on multiple TVs. [Edit: Please also assume the person has no interest in and will not use video on demand. Please also assume the person is considering Comcast's cloud DVR service to use with multiple Roku devices.]


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I'm trying to figure out what the point of this thread is, because the title is wrong - the Xfinity Roku app IS currently free for all customers. You just don't get HD channels unless you're paying the HD tech fee.

And there's no way to get VOD on Tivo now so there's no way to answer that other than Roku. And there's no way to record HD other than Tivo, so...


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks slowbiscuit. I have edited the post [with brackets] to add some clarifications. The app is indirectly not currently free with regard to those who want to access HD who can otherwise use a cablecard device to access HD channels as described in the OP.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

You want to complain about the HD tech fee, I get that. Everything else is irrelevant and at best misleading, since the only way to record is with a Tivo. You never mention that you'd also have to have Comcast equipment to record because you can't do it on Roku.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

heyted said:


> Thanks slowbiscuit. I have edited the post [with brackets] to add some clarifications. The app is indirectly not currently free with regard to those who want to access HD who can otherwise use a cablecard device to access HD channels as described in the OP.


Why not just pay the fee and get HD then?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Why not just pay the fee and get HD then?


Or subscribe to a package that doesn't require the fee. I'm in a double play package that specifically includes HD sans fee. This also applies to the Roku app.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

It looks like TiVo is the clear winner on the poll so far. Thanks for voting. The goal for the user is to be able to watch and record the HD channels that are included in the Digital Starter package at the lowest possible price. Since Comcast equipment cannot be eliminated completely for the Roku option as is the case for TiVo, it appears that the TiVo option would be cheaper. Also, for some people, the $10 HD fee does not need to be paid even if not included in the package.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

slowbiscuit said:


> You want to complain about the HD tech fee, I get that. Everything else is irrelevant and at best misleading....


Not complaining. Just pointing out something that people should be aware of.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Why not just pay the fee and get HD then?


Since the goal of the person is to save money, consideration needs to be given to the following:

Option 1 - Potentially use a TiVo and be able to view and record HD channels without paying the HD fee with a package that does not include HD by default. Even though the package does not include access to the HD channels without adding the additional $10 fee, many TiVo users are able to view and record the HD channels.

Option 2 - Use Roku devices instead of TiVo. For this case, the $10 HD fee would need to be added.

This is in no way misleading as slowbiscut indicated above. For this usage case, the app is clearly not free.


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

You don't get the record ability from Roku app unless you have one of the new packages that include HD (only 10 hours free) or an X1 DVR. You can't get the X1 DVR without HD. So it's all a mute point.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I don't understand why the word Roku and record are in the same sentence. There is no streamer that records including Roku. Correct?


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mattyro7878 said:


> I don't understand why the word Roku and record are in the same sentence. There is no streamer that records including Roku. Correct?


Newer Xfinity plans have a cloud DVR which the Roku can access.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

OP, your argument is moot, or of only very limited applicability at best, since Comcast has eliminated the HD Technology Fee entirely in the new "Simple and Easy" pricing structure.

Digital Starter is a legacy programming tier that will no longer be offered anywhere in the nation once the new system is completely phased in by next year. Whether you subscribe as a retail or bulk-services customer, when you go to renew your service you will be switch to the new plans.

The new programming tiers (Basic, Extra, and Preferred) all include HD at no additional charge as illustrated in the screen shot below. (For your reference, Extra is the equivalent of the old Digital Starter.)

BTW, that HD exclusion on the Roku app only applies to the linear channels. Anyone who subscribes to a premium channel via Comcast can access the HD version of premium content through the pertinent OTT app on the Roku (e.g., HBO GO or Showtime Anytime) using their Comcast account credentials. (N.B.: Starz is currently the exception.)


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Xfinity diminished the resolution of their HD channels. The $10 fee isn't justified anymore. Can a customer use the Xfinity Stream app from another location away from home?


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

mattyro7878 said:


> I don't understand why the word Roku and record are in the same sentence. There is no streamer that records including Roku. Correct?


Cloud recording within apps. Comcast gives you 10 hours free.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

schatham said:


> You don't get the record ability from Roku app unless you have one of the new packages that include HD (only 10 hours free) or an X1 DVR. You can't get the X1 DVR without HD. So it's all a mute point.


The new pricing structure described by chiguy50 apparently makes the HD fee issue a mute point after it is adopted. The choice of Roku or TiVo, however, is still relevant. The additional price for any added equipment or required upgrade would tend to make the TiVo option the better choice since the goal is to save money.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> OP, your argument is moot, or of only very limited applicability at best, since Comcast has eliminated the HD Technology Fee entirely in the new "Simple and Easy" pricing structure.
> 
> Digital Starter is a legacy programming tier that will no longer be offered anywhere in the nation once the new system is completely phased in by next year. Whether you subscribe as a retail or bulk-services customer, when you go to renew your service you will be switch to the new plans.
> 
> ...


Thank you. i did not know that. Agreed, it appears the HD fee issue may be irrelevant when the new price structure is adopted if it is as you say. Users of the app can hope that by that time, if the beta phase is over, competition will force Comcast to not add other fees. I have a feeling they will find a way to charge something.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

shwru980r said:


> Can a customer use the Xfinity Stream app from another location away from home?





Comcast at https://www.xfinity.com/support/articles/xfinity-stream-beta-app-faqs said:


> Can I take my Partner Device to my friend's house, hotel or vacation home and access the Xfinity Stream app?
> 
> No. The Xfinity Stream app will only work if the device is connected to your Xfinity Internet in-home network through Ethernet or WiFi. If you'd like to access your favorite content when you're not connected to your Xfinity in-home network, you can use the Xfinity Stream portal online or the Xfinity Stream app on your smartphone, tablet, or computer and watch your recordings and available content over the Internet.


I sometimes use the Xfinity Stream app on my phone at work to watch live TV.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

heyted said:


> I sometimes use the Xfinity Stream app on my phone at work to watch live TV.


Though that is limited to "TV Go" channels. Some channels will allow watching outside the home and others won't. Normally if a channel offers its own app with live TV it will support out of home viewing.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks to all for the comments. I have a similar post asking the same question on the DSLReports forum, and I will post it on one or two additional forums. I will tally up the votes and report back.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

The results are in:

TiVo Community Forum: 11 votes for CableCARD devices, 2 votes for Xfinity Stream App devices
DSLReports Forum: 3 votes for CableCARD devices, 1 vote for Xfinity Stream App devices
Reddit: 1 vote for CableCARD devices, 1 vote for Xfinity Stream App devices

Blog post: Roku as a DVR vs. TiVo and Other CableCARD Compatible Devices with a Comcast Bulk Account


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## brimorga (Oct 22, 2016)

I bought 2 Rokus for 2 reasons a couple of months ago. 1) as an additional outlet using the app 2) for the slingbox app on Roku.

Now I don't get channels in HD anymore with the app and the slingbox app has stopped working. Total fail for me going with Roku!!

(forgive my whining)


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

brimorga said:


> I bought 2 Rokus for 2 reasons a couple of months ago. 1) as an additional outlet using the app 2) for the slingbox app on Roku.
> 
> Now I don't get channels in HD anymore with the app and the slingbox app has stopped working. Total fail for me going with Roku!!
> 
> (forgive my whining)


whining? i appreciate the honesty - and some still wonder why so many of us prefer our tivo over streaming only services.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

slowbiscuit said:


> I'm trying to figure out what the point of this thread is, because the title is wrong - the Xfinity Roku app IS currently free for all customers. You just don't get HD channels unless you're paying the HD tech fee.
> 
> And there's no way to get VOD on Tivo now so there's no way to answer that other than Roku. And there's no way to record HD other than Tivo, so...


I don't pay an HD fee and get HD on both Tivo's


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

mattyro7878 said:


> I don't pay an HD fee and get HD on both Tivo's


same here (as mentioned before), plus i have access to all hd channels on the xfinity stream app on my tablet and through my pc browser(s), too, including premium channels - i've never paid the fee.

i'm thinking they've set the billing codes differently for the xfinity stream app on roku than they have them set for cable cards.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

mattyro7878 said:


> I don't pay an HD fee and get HD on both Tivo's





NorthAlabama said:


> same here (as mentioned before), plus i have access to all hd channels on the xfinity stream app on my tablet and through my pc browser(s), too, including premium channels - i've never paid the fee.
> 
> i'm thinking they've set the billing codes differently for the xfinity stream app on roku than they have them set for cable cards.


The issue regarding HD reception on the Xfinity Stream (XS) app boils down to the nature of the Comcast video service plan to which you are subscribed. Most, if not all, of the current "Simple and Easy" plans include HD (see highlighted graphic below) whereas most of the older legacy plans did not. This was not an issue for CableCARD reception and so did not affect most TiVo users (although there were sporadic inconsistencies throughout Comcast's nationwide billing system). As it is now, according to Comcast CS, some platforms look to see that you have a certain level of service assuming HD is included, while other platforms (viz., XS) look for the HD service code specifically.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I would not let them hammer me for that fee. On principal alone and the fact that no one else charges for HD AND...their HD stinks..I would use it as a way to get out and go elsewhere.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

chiguy50 said:


> The issue regarding HD reception on the Xfinity Stream (XS) app boils down to the nature of the Comcast video service plan to which you are subscribed. Most, if not all, of the current "Simple and Easy" plans include HD (see highlighted graphic below) whereas most of the older legacy plans did not. This was not an issue for CableCARD reception and so did not affect most TiVo users (although there were sporadic inconsistencies throughout Comcast's nationwide billing system). As it is now, according to Comcast CS, some platforms look to see that you have a certain level of service assuming HD is included, while other platforms (viz., XS) look for the HD service code specifically.


i've been a comcast hd customer for 11 years, with no hd fee, ever - our market does not offer the "simple and easy" plans as far as i'm aware, it's never been mentioned in person, in literature, or online. our plans and lineups have typically mirrored the atlanta market since the late 80's.

i'm 3 years into my current triple play, and i'm sure the hd fee is included, but it wasn't when i was comcast tv only with u-verse internet and voipo home phone 2008-2016 - didn't pay the hd fee then, either, but i've always had hd channels since i left directv with hd for comcast in 2008.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Where is the fee for the Xfinity Stream Beta App? I can download it for free even though I'm not an Xfinity customer.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

schatham said:


> Cloud recording within apps. Comcast gives you 10 hours free.


Comcast includes 20 hours of free cloud DVR service with their new Extra and Preferred base channel packages. (At least that's always been the case in my market since those packages were introduced back in the spring. I think it's true everywhere that Comcast has rolled them out.) If you want to upgrade that to 60 hours, you must pay a $10 DVR service fee. The new Basic package doesn't include any cloud DVR but the 60 hours can also be added to it for the same $10/mo. Any and all X1 boxes (regardless of model, doesn't matter whether or not they have a physical DVR hard drive and/or QAM tuners) now rent for $5/mo each.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

heyted said:


> The new pricing structure described by chiguy50 apparently makes the HD fee issue a mute point after it is adopted. The choice of Roku or TiVo, however, is still relevant. The additional price for any added equipment or required upgrade would tend to make the TiVo option the better choice since the goal is to save money.


Here's the most straightforward comparison based on Comcast's new pricing and policies. Let's say you subscribe to Comcast's new midlevel channel package, Extra. Its regular price is $70/mo (not including broadcast and RSN fees), although you get a $20 discount if combining it with another service, like broadband. If you have Comcast broadband, it also comes with 20 hours of free cloud DVR service, although that is only accessible via a rented X1 box or your own retail device (e.g. Roku) running the Xfinity Stream app. A TiVo cannot access the cloud DVR. These new channel packages, like Extra, do not include any set-top box rentals; even your first box costs $5/mo extra, should you choose to take it. (You can instead just use the free Xfinity Stream app or a free CableCARD if you want to use your own viewing device.)

Now, if you wanted more DVR storage space than just 20 hours, you could either pay Comcast or TiVo for that.

If you went the Comcast route, you'd pay $10/mo to get a total of 60 hours of cloud DVR storage. You could access that via their app at no additional charge (for now anyway) or through an X1 box you rent for $5/mo. At least for now, Comcast is still renting out physical X1 DVRs which can often hold more than 60 hours of HD recordings (and way more than 60 hours of SD recordings), even though Comcast officially rates them as having a 60-hour capacity. And regardless of whether you took an X1 DVR or a smaller X1 box, you'd pay the same $5 box rental fee and get the same 60 hours of cloud DVR storage. (Note that if you have a physical X1 DVR, the cloud storage simply mirrors the most recent 60 hours of recordings on your box.)

If you went the TiVo route, you'd pay $15/mo or $150/yr (averages out to $12.50/mo) or an up-front lifetime charge of $550 for their DVR service. You'd also have to purchase the TiVo hardware in the first place; new TiVo DVRs for cable currently range from $200-$400. But you'd get a lot more than 60 hours of storage. The $200 Bolt Vox can store 150 hours while the $400 Edge can store 300 hours.

Both models can record up to 6 different channels at the same time, the same as a physical X1 DVR. (I don't know if there's any limit on the number of simultaneous recordings with Comcast's cloud DVR.) Beyond that, there are certain benefits that the TiVo has over an X1 box or the Xfinity Stream app but then there also advantages that they have over TiVo (mainly the integration of on-demand content).

At any rate, the only way you can possibly come out cheaper to go with a TiVo versus getting DVR service from Comcast is if you pay for lifetime TiVo service and then continue using your TiVo DVR for a long time. If you bought a TiVo Bolt Vox with lifetime service, that would come to an up-front investment of $750.

If you purchased a Roku Streaming Stick+ for $50 and then paid the $10 monthly fee for 60 hours of Comcast cloud DVR service, it would take you 70 months (5 years and 10 months) before you would have spent a total of $750 on hardware and service.

Of if you chose to rent an X1 box/DVR and also pay for Comcast DVR service, that would come to $15/mo with no up-front hardware cost. In that case, it would take you only 50 months (4 years and 2 months) to spend a total of $750 on DVR service.

That's how long it would take you to break even on your up-front TiVo investment. Only after either 70 months or 50 months would you be saving money by going with TiVo vs. Comcast for DVR service. Either way, that's a long time to think about sticking with any pay TV provider these days, given the rate at which the entertainment landscape is changing.

It's true, though, that used TiVos with lifetime service have typically sold for a decent amount on eBay. If you can get back half of your up-front costs, then that would obviously shorten your break-even period by half too. But at this point, it's an open question how valuable used TiVos might be even 2-3 years from now. Will Comcast still offer their full line-up of cable channels via QAM, accessible via CableCARD devices like TiVo? (Also keep in mind that a growing percentage of content will shift off of cable channels over to on-demand streaming services like Disney+, HBO Max, CBS All Access, etc., which TiVos cannot access.)


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NorthAlabama said:


> i've been a comcast hd customer for 11 years, with no hd fee, ever - our market does not offer the "simple and easy" plans as far as i'm aware, it's never been mentioned in person, in literature, or online. our plans and lineups have typically mirrored the atlanta market since the late 80's.
> 
> i'm 3 years into my current triple play, and i'm sure the hd fee is included, but it wasn't when i was comcast tv only with u-verse internet and voipo home phone 2008-2016 - didn't pay the hd fee then, either, but i've always had hd channels since i left directv with hd for comcast in 2008.


I have also never paid the HD Technology Fee, but then I have always used TiVo w/CableCARD for digital reception.

Atlanta (and the entire Central Division AFAIK) has already transitioned to Simple and Easy. IDK whether your location falls within the Heartland or the Big South Region, but either way you can be sure that by next year at the latest you will be under Simple and Easy if you are not there already.

If you give us your zip code we can verify this for you.

BTW, here is an internal Comcast corporate slide illustrating the Simple and Easy basic parameters:


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Comcast includes 20 hours of free cloud DVR service with their new Extra and Preferred base channel packages. (At least that's always been the case in my market since those packages were introduced back in the spring. I think it's true everywhere that Comcast has rolled them out.) If you want to upgrade that to 60 hours, you must pay a $10 DVR service fee. The new Basic package doesn't include any cloud DVR but the 60 hours can also be added to it for the same $10/mo. Any and all X1 boxes (regardless of model, doesn't matter whether or not they have a physical DVR hard drive and/or QAM tuners) now rent for $5/mo each.


10 for me.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

mdavej said:


> Where is the fee for the Xfinity Stream Beta App? I can download it for free even though I'm not an Xfinity customer.





Comcast employee on ‎09-03-2019 at https://forums.xfinity.com/t5/XFINITY-Stream-Website/Xfinity-Stream-Beta-App-has-no-HD-channels/td-p/3254653 said:


> There was an issue previously where customers were receiving HD programming on their Roku devices that did not have HD services included with their package. We have since corrected this and anyone not paying for HD service in their Comcast television package will no longer receive HD service on their Roku devices.


Some people have Digital Starter which does not include HD access with non-cablecard compatible devices unless an additional fee is paid. There are some exceptions, but this is the case for many people with Digital Starter -- especially people that pay their Comcast bill as part of their home owners association fee or rent. For these people that want HD access, they can choose cablecard compatible devices and not pay the HD fee, or they can use the app on Roku devices and pay an additional fee on their monthly Comcast bill.


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## heyted (Mar 4, 2012)

Regarding Digital Starter going away nationwide, I asked this question on Reddit here which is moderated by Comcast, and some questions are answered by a Comcast employee. I did not receive an official response. Does anyone have a reference showing when this will happen? For areas that currently have a choice of either Digital Starter or Extra as shown in the OP, does anyone have a reference indicating if this will this affect the elimination timing of Digital Starter?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Your thread title says the app isn’t free for some, which is false. Your linking an HD fee to it makes no sense.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

schatham said:


> 10 for me.
> 
> View attachment 44311


Ah. Where do you live? I'm in the Central Division (same as chiguy50), where the new Simple and Easy plans have been rolled out for awhile. Pretty sure this is the new structure that will eventually cover all of Comcast's footprint nationwide. Nothing called "Choice TV" exists here. See the slide pic that chiguy50 posted above (post #32). Basic includes no cloud DVR but Extra and Preferred include 20 hours.

Attached is my rate card from just under a month ago in case it's of interest.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

heyted said:


> Regarding Digital Starter going away nationwide, I asked this question on Reddit here which is moderated by Comcast, and some questions are answered by a Comcast employee. I did not receive an official response. Does anyone have a reference showing when this will happen? For areas that currently have a choice of either Digital Starter or Extra as shown in the OP, does anyone have a reference indicating if this will this affect the elimination timing of Digital Starter?


It's not clear that Digital Starter is going away, at least right away. If you look at my local (Nashville) rate card I posted just above, you'll see that the Digital Starter package carries the following footnote:

_Digital Starter does not qualify for Multi Product discount or Autopay and Paperless Billing discount. Cannot be combined with other Xfinity TV services, Xfinity Internet, Xfinity Voice or Xfinity Home service. HD Technology Fee required for HD programming. _​
So it appears that Digital Starter is still being sold but ONLY to standalone TV customers. If you currently have or are signing up for any other Comcast service (e.g. internet), then you cannot place Digital Starter on your account.

Of course, there are a lot of Comcast customers who already have Digital Starter along with other services, like internet or home phone. I presume all of those folks will be able to stick with their current package as long as they like, as Comcast doesn't typically ever force customers to switch packages. But, a literal reading of the footnote above indicates that those customers' overall bills will increase if they're not under some kind of contract with a set price. Because the footnote states that Digital Starter isn't eligible for any kind of discounts. No discounts for bundling, autopay or paperless billing. Those discounts combined add up to at least $30/mo. Although maybe the thing about not qualifying for discounts only applies to new customers signing up for Digital Starter, not existing customers who already have it?

At any rate, it would certainly seem like existing Comcast customers who have internet or other services besides TV are not able to switch to Digital Starter, much less any of the other "Digital" TV packages like Digital Economy, Digital Preferred, or Digital Premier, which apparently aren't sold at all to anyone any more. (They no longer even appear on the rate card.)

Going forward, Comcast is focused on Basic, Extra and Preferred, with premium services sold a la carte (although 3 or more premiums together qualify for a discount).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

That strikes me as an accurate summary of the state of play for Comcast CATV.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> Going forward, Comcast is focused on Basic, Extra and Preferred, with premium services sold a la carte (although 3 or more premiums together qualify for a discount).


It'll be interesting to see how Comcast's line-up of premium services changes in 2020. Currently, they offer:

HBO
Showtime
Starz
Cinemax
The Movie Channel
Epix
Hitz

HBO costs $15, Epix costs $6, and the others each cost $12.

They're saying that come Dec. 31, they're going to completely stop selling Starz.

Then there's the question of what will happen when HBO Max launches. Will Comcast sell that instead of regular HBO? Will HBO Max subsume Cinemax, meaning that it no longer gets sold by Comcast, or even continues to exist at all?

And why does Comcast continue to sell The Movie Channel (TMC)? Surely the only folks who have it are ones who got it as part of a now-deprecated channel package, e.g. Digital Premier. Because it makes zero sense to pay $12 a month for TMC given that it airs all the same movies as its sibling Showtime but has zero original content. Some MVPDs just include TMC's linear channels in as part of the Showtime service, which is what Comcast should do too.

Also, what's the point of Comcast's own Hitz service, a lame on-demand movie package? Seems like it was created just to give Digital Premier customers *something* in exchange for Cinemax when that got yanked from the package this summer. Like TMC, I can't imagine *anyone* is paying $12/mo for Hitz a la carte. And given Comcast's desire to make Peacock a compelling offering (supposedly it'll launch with 10,000 hours of content), isn't there a good chance that the Hitz library (along with the Streampix library) just gets absorbed into Peacock?

So maybe by next summer, Comcast's menu of premium services will simply be:

Showtime
Epix
And those will be sold alongside a menu of on-demand streaming services:

Peacock (free for Comcast TV customers)
Netflix
HBO Max (which would still include at least some live linear HBO channels)
Disney+ (?)
smaller services like Curiosity Stream, Acorn TV and Hallmark Movies Now


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## schatham (Mar 17, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> Ah. Where do you live? I'm in the Central Division (same as chiguy50), where the new Simple and Easy plans have been rolled out for awhile. Pretty sure this is the new structure that will eventually cover all of Comcast's footprint nationwide. Nothing called "Choice TV" exists here. See the slide pic that chiguy50 posted above (post #32). Basic includes no cloud DVR but Extra and Preferred include 20 hours.
> 
> Attached is my rate card from just under a month ago in case it's of interest.


Boston market. These are new as of this year or so. When I did a 2 year deal this June, this was new from the old Preferred. Same channels, they just call it something different and includes cloud DVR.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

schatham said:


> Boston market. These are new as of this year or so. When I did a 2 year deal this June, this was new from the old Preferred. Same channels, they just call it something different and includes cloud DVR.


I got the same thing when I did a 2 year deal last December in NJ.

For the longest time the 10 free cloud hours were a waste as you needed an X1 box to use them. I found later that recordings could be managed and scheduled using the Roku app and later using the iOS app (where they can also be watched).


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Then there's the question of what will happen when HBO Max launches. Will Comcast sell that instead of regular HBO? Will HBO Max subsume Cinemax, meaning that it no longer gets sold by Comcast, or even continues to exist at all?


I have submitted this question for research and am currently awaiting a reply from my bulk sales rep with the understanding that it may be difficult to get clarification at this early stage.



NashGuy said:


> And why does Comcast continue to sell The Movie Channel (TMC)? Surely the only folks who have it are ones who got it as part of *a now-deprecated channel package, e.g. Digital Premier*. Because it makes zero sense to pay $12 a month for TMC given that it airs all the same movies as its sibling Showtime but has zero original content. Some MVPDs just include TMC's linear channels in as part of the Showtime service, which is what Comcast should do too.


Not quite deprecated as yet--at least not in the sense of obsolete. As it happens, my sister is getting her Comcast service activated today (the techs are installing it even as I type this post), and I assisted her in choosing a *Digital Premier* Triple Play bundle with a 24-month agreement. She is in the California region.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> Not quite deprecated as yet--at least not in the sense of obsolete. As it happens, my sister is getting her Comcast service activated today (the techs are installing it even as I type this post), and I assisted her in choosing a *Digital Premier* Triple Play bundle with a 24-month agreement. She is in the California region.


Digital Premier is -- best I can tell, anyhow -- deprecated/obsolete in the Central Division and anywhere else that the new Simple & Easy plan has been rolled out. And, as you posted before, it will probably finish rolling out nationwide in 2020.

Pretty sure where you and I live, new customers can't sign up with Digital Premier and I doubt even existing customers can switch over to it.


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Digital Premier is -- best I can tell, anyhow -- deprecated/obsolete in the Central Division and anywhere else that the new Simple & Easy plan has been rolled out. And, as you posted before, it will probably finish rolling out nationwide in 2020.
> 
> Pretty sure where you and I live, new customers can't sign up with Digital Premier and I doubt even existing customers can switch over to it.


Yes, but . . . since the Simple and Easy system is not yet in force in all regions, the older plans are still not entirely obsolete.

You are entirely correct concerning the Central Division (if there are any regional exceptions, I am unaware of them). My HOA, for example, is on the Digital Starter plan and it will remain thus until the end of our contract in May 2021 unless we amend or replace it with a new agreement, at which time we can only choose among the Simple and Easy tiers of service.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NashGuy said:


> So maybe by next summer, Comcast's menu of premium services will simply be:
> 
> Showtime
> Epix
> ...


Over on DSLReport, dishrich posted the attached photo of a new direct mail advertisement from Comcast. Notice that the only premium services it shows are HBO, Epix, Showtime and The Movie Channel. No Starz, no Cinemax. Make of that what you will...


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

I just got advance word that Comcast will be raising the Broadcast TV Fee in our market from the current $10.00 to $14.95 as of January 1, 2020. I assume that this is a harbinger of similar increases across the rest of their U.S. network.

The other rate hikes that were brought to my attention seem more modest by comparison (e.g., gateway rental goes from $13.00 to $14.00 plus tax).


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> I just got advance word that Comcast will be raising the Broadcast TV Fee in our market from the current $10.00 to $14.95 as of January 1, 2020. I assume that this is a harbinger of similar increases across the rest of their U.S. network.
> 
> The other rate hikes that were brought to my attention seem more modest by comparison (e.g., gateway rental goes from $13.00 to $14.00 plus tax).


Wow. At their current $10/mo fee for local broadcast channels, I think Comcast is less than the national average among MVPDs -- seems like I read it's $12 or $14. But I figured that was because Comcast is so large, they can negotiate lower retrans fees to carry those local stations owned by Sinclair, Nexstar, etc. I'm surprised to see the fee jump 50% all the way up to nearly $15.

In some places, governments are pushing for "truth in advertising" rules that would force MVPDs to include non-optional programming fees, like the broadcast fee and RSN fee, in the advertised package prices, which I fully support. I think it's nuts that Comcast can advertise that their Limited Basic package here costs $22.39 when in actuality it costs $33.39 -- soon to be $38.34 -- due to the broadcast fee. All that package consists of are the locals!


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> Then there's the question of what will happen when HBO Max launches. Will Comcast sell that instead of regular HBO? Will HBO Max subsume Cinemax, meaning that it no longer gets sold by Comcast, or even continues to exist at all?





chiguy50 said:


> I have submitted this question for research and am currently awaiting a reply from my bulk sales rep with the understanding that it may be difficult to get clarification at this early stage.


I heard back from my rep today on this question. The VERY preliminary thinking is that Comcast will provide the expanded HBO Max to any subscriber who has already signed up for HBO.

That makes sense to me given the presumed identical retail pricing for the two subscription services, but that does not necessarily equate to the relative wholesale costs borne by Comcast. Nonetheless, I don't expect that we will know definitively how it will be handled by Comcast until next spring given the uncertainties still in play.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> I heard back from my rep today on this question. The VERY preliminary thinking is that Comcast will provide the expanded HBO Max to any subscriber who has already signed up for HBO.
> 
> That makes sense to me given the presumed identical retail pricing for the two subscription services, but that does not necessarily equate to the relative wholesale costs borne by Comcast. Nonetheless, I don't expect that we will know definitively how it will be handled by Comcast until next spring given the uncertainties still in play.


Yeah, if I had to place a bet on what will happen, it's that Comcast gets on board with replacing HBO with HBO Max. Given their size, I'm sure AT&T really wants to make a deal. And given the popularity of HBO, and the fact that HBO Max will sell direct from AT&T for the same $15 price that Comcast charges for HBO Max, I'm sure Comcast realizes that a decent chunk of their HBO subs would cancel and switch over to HBO Max and stream it through their Apple TV, Roku, etc., completely leaving Comcast out of the loop on that $15 subscription while pulling viewing time away from their X1 platform.

I'd be really surprised if AT&T isn't asking for a higher wholesale price from MVPDs like Comcast for HBO Max than they've been getting for HBO. If not, then why not let them just continue selling regular HBO and then try to lure those folks over to buying HBO Max directly from AT&T, with over twice the content for the same $15 retail price, in which case AT&T doesn't have the split the revenue with anyone?


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## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

NashGuy said:


> I'd be really surprised if AT&T isn't asking for a higher wholesale price from MVPDs like Comcast for HBO Max than they've been getting for HBO.


That is also my assumption (as I intimated in my post) unless AT&T is planning to have HBO Max replace HBO altogether in the near term.



NashGuy said:


> If not, then why not let them just continue selling regular HBO and then try to lure those folks over to buying HBO Max directly from AT&T, with over twice the content for the same $15 retail price, in which case AT&T doesn't have the split the revenue with anyone?


I still wonder whether there won't be some distinction in the content or accessibility of HBO that is not provided by HBO Max. I have not followed the industry news closely, but do we know for certain that the latter will offer the complete palette of programming on HBO? And will the MVPD's be able to provide it as a linear channel or only as a streaming app?

If there is no distinction whatsoever and the retail pricing is identical (not just as a promotional come-on), then what reason could there be to maintain HBO separate from HBO Max given the latter's broader content?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

chiguy50 said:


> I still wonder whether there won't be some distinction in the content or accessibility of HBO that is not provided by HBO Max. I have not followed the industry news closely, but do we know for certain that the latter will offer the complete palette of programming on HBO? And will the MVPD's be able to provide it as a linear channel or only as a streaming app?
> 
> If there is no distinction whatsoever and the retail pricing is identical (not just as a promotional come-on), then what reason could there be to maintain HBO separate from HBO Max given the latter's broader content?


AT&T has made clear that HBO Max will offer *all the content* that regular HBO (i.e. the HBO Now and HBO Go apps) offers. The only thing that we don't know is whether the HBO Max app will offer any of the live linear HBO channels (the way, for instance, that the Showtime app has always offered the live east and west coast feeds of the original Showtime channel). My hunch is that HBO Max will include a live stream of at least the original HBO linear channel, and probably HBO Family and HBO Latino too, but none of the others. (Note that those are the only three linear HBO channels that are carried on AT&T's own OTT cable service AT&T TV Now.) We'll see. But if it ends up not offering any of the live linear channels, then that would be the only feature that traditional HBO via an MVPD would offer that standalone streaming HBO Max would not.

But over half of the number of hours of content in the HBO Max library will be non-HBO stuff, i.e. content that's not available in HBO Go or HBO Now. Some percentage of that stuff may be available via other Warner cable channels' apps and the on-demand libraries they provide to MVPDs, e.g. recently aired stuff from CNN, TCM, TBS, TNT, Cartoon Network, etc. But there will definitely be a lot of past content (e.g. entire seasons/series like Friends, Big Bang Theory, West Wing, South Park, Dr. Who, Top Gear, etc.) that will be exclusive to HBO Max. And then there will also be a whole new line of "Max Originals" series and movies that are also exclusive to the service. Those Max Originals won't appear on any linear cable channel. There will be 38 Max Originals available in 2020, increasing to 50 in 2021, at which point they will outnumber HBO Originals.

I'm sure if an MVPD agrees to distribute HBO Max instead of traditional HBO, they'll still be able to offer some or all linear HBO channels to those subscribers in the MVPD's native channel guide but I don't think any other linear channels (e.g. TBS, TruTV, etc.) would be included in the contract; they would remain covered under other distribution contracts.

But the core of HBO Max is its on-demand library. It remains to be seen whether an MVPD would be able to integrate that entire library in their native on-demand system (the way they can already do with most or all HBO content, largely obviating the need for the customer to use the HBO Go app on their TV). Maybe instead AT&T would insist on the HBO Max library remaining inside its own app but they'll agree to create versions of the app to run on Comcast & Cox's X1, Charter's WorldBox, Verizon's FiOS, etc.


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