# Lost S03E03 "Further Instructions" 10-18-2006 *spoilers*



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Didn't see a thread yet, so..


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## firerose818 (Jul 21, 2003)

I had some awful pixellation here watching in hi-def. Parts were unwatchable, but I really enjoyed the Locke flashback scenes. He is such an interesting character and I always like his flashback episodes.

But, really - no one could find Desmond a pair of pants at the end?! 

-Rose


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

First off was the guy at the commune (the leader) one of the others? I swear I have seen him either there or in someone else's flashback.


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

I was wondering if Hurley and Locke were the only ones that saw Desmond. Interesting episode, but I still want to know how Locke lost the use of his legs.


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## firerose818 (Jul 21, 2003)

bro1ncos said:


> I was wondering if Hurley and Locke were the only ones that saw Desmond.


I hadn't thought about that...but I like that theory. :up:

-Rose


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Desmond has to be a Terminator! He showed up naked and has knowledge of the future! I bet Vincent will bark at him! Hey where is Vincent? Vincent! Vincent! Vincent!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

What first aid stuff would they have? Didn't it all get blowed up in the hatch? Or should I say blowed in?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Hmmmm...not much to say about this episode. I don't think it really added much to anything. Of course it's just my opinion, but I don't think this answered any questions, raised any new questions, or gave us much on Locke's background. About the only thing of any interest was Desmond knowing about Lockes speach (ok, so that's one question, but not a very pressing one). I think this might be the first time I was actually disappointed in an episode.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

mwhip said:


> First off was the guy at the commune (the leader) one of the others? I swear I have seen him either there or in someone else's flashback.


My wife thinks he's Mr Friendly/Zeke...I have always thought that Zeke's face hasn't looked quite right, bloated and the nose looks wrong...Maybe the commune leader is Zeke with no make up at all??


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Another Geronimo Jackson reference


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

crazywater said:


> My wife thinks he's Mr Friendly/Zeke...I have always thought that Zeke's face hasn't looked quite right, bloated and the nose looks wrong...Maybe the commune leader is Zeke with no make up at all??


No, the commune leader is that Twin Peaks guy. Chris Mulkey. Another actor altogether.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> Hmmmm...not much to say about this episode. I don't think it really added much to anything. Of course it's just my opinion, but I don't think this answered any questions, raised any new questions, or gave us much on Locke's background. About the only thing of any interest was Desmond knowing about Lockes speach (ok, so that's one question, but not a very pressing one). I think this might be the first time I was actually disappointed in an episode.


We got our first look at two of the newest Lostaways: Paulo, played by Rodrigo Santoro, and Nikki, played by Kiele Sanchez. That's something at least.

I did enjoy Boone's appearance in Locke's vision and the flashback of Locke's time growing weed, and now I'm left to wonder if Locke shot Eddie and really cleaned-up that mess. Could this be a flashback that hasn't completed yet? Could this lead to the flashback where we learn how Locke lost use of his legs?


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

I don't think Locke did shoot Eddie. He is "good". Others like Kate and Sawyer did kill people. They are "bad".


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> We got our first look at two of the newest Lostaways: Paulo, played by Rodrigo Santoro, and Nikki, played by Kiele Sanchez. That's something at least.


We also learned more about the failsafe--the fact that the anamoly has apparently been destroyed--and that the hatch is gone for good.


drew2k said:


> I did enjoy Boone's appearance in Locke's vision and the flashback of Locke's time growing weed, and now I'm left to wonder if Locke shot Eddie and really cleaned-up that mess. Could this be a flashback that hasn't completed yet? Could this lead to the flashback where we learn how Locke lost use of his legs?


I thought the flashback was complete. When Locke lowered the weapon, there was nothing more to say. It seemed clear to me that he didn't shoot Eddie, and although there will be consequences (both with Koresh and with the law), those will probably just be off-handed background in a future flashback.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

LordKronos said:


> ...I think this might be the first time I was actually disappointed in an episode.


+1....seemed like a wasted hour (or 44 minutes).


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

BeanMeScot said:


> I don't think Locke did shoot Eddie. He is "good". Others like Kate and Sawyer did kill people. They are "bad".





Rob Helmerichs said:


> I thought the flashback was complete. When Locke lowered the weapon, there was nothing more to say. It seemed clear to me that he didn't shoot Eddie, and although there will be consequences (both with Koresh and with the law), those will probably just be off-handed background in a future flashback.


At first, that's what I thought as well -that Locke backed down and didn't shoot. After all, Eddie told Locke he wouldn't shoot him, because Locke wasn't a murder, he was a farmer. Locke timidly replied that he was a hunter, but he lowered the rifle.

Back in "real time" on the Island, we see Locke having apparently another vision where Ecko tells Locke he will rescue Jack et al, because Locke is a hunter. That's where I started to wonder if maybe we didn't see the resolution of the flashback with Eddie. Maybe Locke raises the rifle a moment later and shoots Eddie? I don't know.

It is interesting though that there was also a recurring theme of Locke needing to clean up his mess. We had Mr. Ecko as his most recent mess, which Locke succeeded in cleaning up. In the flashback the mess was Lock bringing Eddie to the compound. Did Locke actually clean up that mess or not? Hopefully we'll get more than just a small reference to this incident in a future flashback.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Some interesting stuff in this episode..



mwhip said:


> First off was the guy at the commune (the leader) one of the others? I swear I have seen him either there or in someone else's flashback.


I'm fairly sure we haven't seen him yet, but I could have sworn I saw the guy who was guarding the door to the greenhouse in the others camp or somewhere.. He definitely looked familiar.

What I found interesting about the whole Locke speech thing was that when Desmond said it then realized what he said, he backtracked.. He clearly KNEW that what he was talking about was something that hadn't happened yet (or, I suppose, that it was from a dream).. He had that look on his face that said "uh oh - I shouldn't have told you that.. forget I said that.. doh".

We started on Locke's right eye (_his_ right.. on the left of his nose from our point of view). I believe this is the first time we started on someone's eye that we already did an eye-start on before.. According to: 
http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/List_of_Recurring_Themes#Eyes
the other Locke eye shot in Walkabout was his right eye also.
Why start with the eye again? Was he reborn or something? It WAS particularly cool that he woke up with the eye, face up, in the jungle, just like Jack.. It's not terribly clear how he landed there without breaking some branches above him or something in his "landing" - since the trees above him all look pristine..

Caught the Geronimo Jackson reference as soon as I saw the shirt.

The two new people drew2k mentioned stuck out like a sore thumb.. didn't know they'd added people.. and I agree, the Boone scene was kinda cool.

When they first showed Locke out in the woods at all with Eddie, I thought "Holy ****, has EVERYONE on the island commited premeditated murder??".. Very cool that they didn't show us what happened, though they DID have Locke say to Charlie "bad things happen to people that hang around me" (or something like it) right before/after that flashback......

While they were sitting down at the table to eat (in Locke's flashback), and Locke said "thanks for helping me not be so angry", I thought "ok, so he seems over Helen to a certain extent.. ..yet later he's going to be a regional collections supervisor at a box company, and be calling a prostitute Helen since he's pining for the real Helen, which he lost"... !

Gonna post now to minimize smeeking, and post more later.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

drew2k said:


> It is interesting though that there was also a recurring theme of Locke needing to clean up his mess.


Also a recurring theme of Locke getting suckered, and not just in flashbacks.

I think their ending the scene with Locke lowering the gun is intended to mean he didn't kill Eddie. But it did seem incomplete.

Right after he lowered the gun, I expected to hear a shot from another direction because of Locke saying to Charlie something like "Bad things happen to people who hang around me." I also thought Locke might get shot in that scene and end up paralyzed.

Anyway, they set it up very well so that I was on pins and needles for that scene, and also when they went back to Locke, Ekko and Charlie, and Locke said the bear wouldn't be back and then Charlie went off for water, I thought he was going to buy it.

Funny (to me anyway) that a couple weeks ago I said Connie shouldn't have said to Sun "You're not a killer" because everyone who has seen movies/tv when you say that, the person will always shoot you. Then this week, Eddie said that and Locke lowered his gun.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> I think their ending the scene with Locke lowering the gun is intended to mean he didn't kill Eddie. But it did seem incomplete.


I felt that way too. I really thought there was going to be a payoff involving Locke's paralysis.

I was also trying to figure out the timeline of this compared to finding his father and working in the box factory, but I couldn't discern any clues.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

hefe said:


> I was also trying to figure out the timeline of this compared to finding his father and working in the box factory, but I couldn't discern any clues.


I took his reference to getting over his anger to mean this was sometime after he got played by his father (twice). Of course, since he was walking, it would be pre-box company.


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

I like the theory that only Locke/Hurley saw Desmond.

In fact, only Hurley even acknowledged him. With Hurley having his whole "Dave" episode, and Hurley questioning how Desmond made it out of the hatch having lost only his clothes it may add up.

Of course, the writers have used Hurley as a mechanism for asking questions the viewers have ... as in his awfully "convenient" that he had the key this entire time remark!!!

Why was Desmond just hanging down by the ocean looking crazy?

Of course, I seem to recall one of Hanso's projects being some sort of "remote viewing" effort.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> I took his reference to getting over his anger to mean this was sometime after he got played by his father (twice). Of course, since he was walking, it would be pre-box company.


I guess I meant more like how long before, not the general order of events.


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## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

Sorry if this is a smeek I am reading on a blackberry and maybe missing some things. 
Was the airline pilot shown in the airport dream suppose to be Desmond?


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

JLWINE said:


> Sorry if this is a smeek I am reading on a blackberry and maybe missing some things.
> Was the airline pilot shown in the airport dream suppose to be Desmond?


Not a smeek and yes, it was Desmond.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> +1....seemed like a wasted hour (or 44 minutes).


Same here.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Eko's Jesus stick now says:
"Lift up your eyes and look North John 3:05"

At the bottom it also now says 4: 8: 15: 16: (presumably 23 and 42 around the side)

(It also says Gen 13:14, ROM 6:12 (upsidedown), Acts 4:12, and HAB(HAR?)1:3. Someone with more knowledge of the bible than me wanna elaborate on the contents of those sections?)

"well, amusing as the mute game invariably is, you are aware John that I detest you, aren't you?"

Where else did we hear Eureka? (That's where Eddia said he was heading, despite the fact that he wasn't).

For the record (don't see any meaning to it yet), the officer that pulled them over was named Williams. I wonder if he was deliberately pulling them over as part of a plan to get Locke and the kid closer, since he'd say "no he's my uncle"..

In the paperwork for the gun, they showed his spelling as Johnathan Locke.. I've never seen that spelling before - I think it's wrong.. People are usually either John or Jonathan, the nickname for the latter being Jon (like my brother). His address was 25164 Franklin St, San Francisco, CA 94099. Locke was born on 11/15/1946. 5'10", 175 lbs. Locke's SSN is 553-45-2651.

That whole scene apparently happened BEFORE 05-11-02, because that's when John's driver's license expires, and presumably the cop would have noticed that.

It LOOKS like his licence says DOB: 05-30-36, which is definitely different than the birthdate on the paperwork. His registration is dated 10/20/97, but who knows how long that's good for in whatever state they're in now. Lastly, his licence # starts with 100020??

I think that was an Altered States reference when he joked that he'd guard Locke's hut in case he devolved into a monkey.

I like seeing the wheelchair shoved in his face again.. a recent episode did that too (late last season when Locke hurt his legs during the lockdown and Locke said there was a wheelchair on the beach..)

Stepping through now, in the airport halucination, for the first time I see that the Oceanic logo isn't perfectly round, but rather oval shaped.. The center of it kind of looks like a human eye..... I wonder if that was deliberate, given then openings since the first episode on the eyes of all of the main characters.

The whole idea of a polar bear being there and dragging Eko into a cave seemed pretty weak.. I know, we've established polar bears (and reestablished them recently with Sawyer's cave) - but it still seemed (at this point, at least) weak.

Hurley holding a canteen with a knife in it: Duude...

Is the tonka truck one of the bear's toys?

Eddie's info:
Edward F Colburn
Officer 84023
(Humboldt County Sheriff)
S/N 2934765876

There was a skeleton in the bear's cave with a Dharma logo tee-shirt on it...?

And the ending was great.. that intense look on Desmond's face as he chucked stones into the lake..


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I wonder if Locke lost use of his legs protecting Eddie. 

The scene with Hurley looking at the knife in the canteen and going "Duuuudddee" had me laughing out loud. 

And for someone who detests Locke, Charlie was sure spending a lot of time with him. 
Was Bernard not available?


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## caslu (Jun 24, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> There was a skeleton in the bear's cave with a Dharma logo tee-shirt on it...?


I think the skeleton belonged to Desmond's hatch partner (Inman)...seems that I recall his dead body 'disappearing' from where it lay in a previous episode, but my memory may be fuzzy on that.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

I'm having too many Babylon 5 flashbacks, but we just saw a LENGTHY vision. We better watch it again. It's late, I need to go to bed, and I don't have the time to rewatch... but I will. Mark my words: that vision was not throwaway.

Off the top of my head:

Desmond - pilot, walking with 4 extremely hot stewardesses in tow
Jin/Sun - together, happy
Charlie/Claire/baby - together, happy
Hurley - printing tickets with the numbers on them
Jack - well-dressed, alone

Absent: Sawyer & Kate

Final thought... dude, the hatch blew off Desmond's underwear.

Greg


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

"Not much happened" huh... we only found out what happened to Locke, the hatch, Desmond (well, partially) and Mr Eko, they got attacked by the polar bear , we found out where the polar bear lives, Hurley came back and told the others, Desmond seems to have some kind of "future vision", Locke seems to relish the leader role when he came back and we saw 2 new survivors... and we saw the group again, not shown at all since the season premiere. Plus extensive Locke flashbacks that gave us more backstory on him.

No, not much happened... I'm not really sure what some people counts as "happening", but I enjoyed this episode immensely.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

gchance said:


> I'm having too many Babylon 5 flashbacks, but we just saw a LENGTHY vision. We better watch it again. It's late, I need to go to bed, and I don't have the time to rewatch... but I will. Mark my words: that vision was not throwaway.
> 
> Off the top of my head:
> 
> ...


Sawyer and Kate were talking to eachother while waiting in a line. She looked mighty hot, by the way.

And Jin and Sun seemed to argue, not be happy... at least to me.


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## atrac (Feb 27, 2002)

What's up with Hurley's "Deja-Vu" at the end? I don't remember anything like that scene from before.

Did someone alter the timeline? Is he Guinan?


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## BriGuy20 (Aug 4, 2005)

YAY! Hurley's back!

What exactly is Geronimo Jackson?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

BriGuy20 said:


> YAY! Hurley's back!
> 
> What exactly is Geronimo Jackson?


Hurley and someone else found an LP with that band in the hatch. It's been mentioned a few other times I think. I don't think it's got any significance other than as a way to expand the internal Lost universe between characters, events and places.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

atrac said:


> What's up with Hurley's "Deja-Vu" at the end? I don't remember anything like that scene from before.
> 
> Did someone alter the timeline? Is he Guinan?


He was refering to Desmond talking about Locke's speech before Locke made it back to camp.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

gchance said:


> I'm having too many Babylon 5 flashbacks, but we just saw a LENGTHY vision.
> ....
> Jack - well-dressed, alone
> 
> ...





MickeS said:


> Sawyer and Kate were talking to eachother while waiting in a line.


Actually, Jack, Sawyer, and Kate were all together in the same line, but Jack was further ahead of them, a bit separated. Jack was taking his watch off to get through xray; sawyer and Kate were behind him waiting their turn. Also, the operator of the xray machine was Ben. All an obvious reference to the three losties current situation with Ben.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Either I'm missing something, or there is huge hole (pun intended  ) in the imploding hatch explanation...

If the hatch *imploded* then why did the steel door fly into the sky and almost kill Claire last season?

EDIT: I mean, I could come up with something like when the hatch imploded, the air was forced out, and the pressure blew off the door, but I mean, come on...


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> In the paperwork for the gun, they showed his spelling as Johnathan Locke.. I've never seen that spelling before - I think it's wrong.. People are usually either John or Jonathan, the nickname for the latter being Jon (like my brother). His address was 25164 Franklin St, San Francisco, CA 94099. Locke was born on 11/15/1946. 5'10", 175 lbs. Locke's SSN is 553-45-2651.
> 
> That whole scene apparently happened BEFORE 05-11-02, because that's when John's driver's license expires, and presumably the cop would have noticed that.
> 
> It LOOKS like his licence says DOB: 05-30-36, which is definitely different than the birthdate on the paperwork. His registration is dated 10/20/97, but who knows how long that's good for in whatever state they're in now. Lastly, his licence # starts with 100020??


The errors on the paperwork are so glaring (for this show's fans) that it makes me think that they were intentionally placed there by the creators. Probably meant to represent fake documents. And if the cop that pulled him over was working with Eddie, then he would simply ignore the mistakes and let them go anyway.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

I had a major problem with Echo *not* being shredded (literally) if a polar bear dragged him to his cave. Echo is an awesome character though.

The whole Desmond situation tonight was weird. If he did get superpowers from the "implosion", and they kill him off, he can always switch shows, and go to _Heroes_ 

Another awesome character is Locke. I enjoy learning about his past. I thought the flashbacks were cool, but the man is just sooo pathetic. Is there anyone from his past that hasn't screwed him? Maybe the woman he was in love with, but she got fed up, and dumped him.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Yeah, I thought Eko was going to be missing a leg or two when John pulled him out, but he was entirely intact.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

DCIFRTHS said:


> Either I'm missing something, or there is huge hole (pun intended  ) in the imploding hatch explanation...
> 
> If the hatch *imploded* then why did the steel door fly into the sky and almost kill Claire last season?
> 
> EDIT: I mean, I could come up with something like when the hatch imploded, the air was forced out, and the pressure blew off the door, but I mean, come on...


Nothing amuses me more than the use of  when a poster is wrong. The hatch didn't implode, the anomaly did. Ever do a cannonball into a pool? The spray is caused by the implosion of the water rushing in to fill the hole you just made in it. So the anomaly implodes, hatch can't move, air rushes in from the tunnels, flying debris ensues.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> It WAS particularly cool that he woke up with the eye, face up, in the jungle, just like Jack..


Yeah, I noticed that too. So did this guy, who put together this jpeg.








[Found the pic in this  thread.]


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

They've opened several episodes with the closeup of an eye, but yeah, I also noticed that this was a very much copying Jack waking up in the jungle back in the pilot episode. Nice touch.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

I would have liked to seen what HAPPENED in the hatch! I guess we are supposed to assume that the 4 guys just appeared in the woods after that? Charlie isn't acting all funny anymore. 

And why the hell doesn't anybody ask questions? If I saw Hurley coming back to the beach, I'd be all over him with questions.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Locke is a poor speller.


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## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

is it just me or does it look like Hurley has lost some weight since last season? His face is stil round and all, but his gut looked smaller to me.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Season One..............................................Season Three


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

The leader guy at the commune definitely resembled Mr. Friendly in appearance and especially sound. I'm not sure if that's coincidence or not, but the resemblance is there...


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Yeah, I noticed that too. So did this guy, who put together this jpeg.
> ....
> [Found the pic in this  thread.]


Very cool. Thanks for posting that.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

balboa dave said:


> Nothing amuses me more than the use of  when a poster is wrong. The hatch didn't implode, the anomaly did. Ever do a cannonball into a pool? The spray is caused by the implosion of the water rushing in to fill the hole you just made in it. ...


I'm a huge fan of the show, I came here to have some fun, and discuss the episode, but I'm glad I amused you instead 

I will watch again, but I'm pretty sure they said that the hatch imploded. I've been wrong before, so it won't be the first time if am again 



> So the anomaly implodes, hatch can't move, air rushes in from the tunnels, flying debris ensues.


I got the impression that the anomaly was located inside the hatch: Behind the steel door that all the metal objects were attracted to. For example, when Echo threw Charlie's (?) belt at it, and it stuck.

My reasoning was this: The anomaly/hatch implodes. Air gets sucked in from the tunnels, because that is the path with the least resistance. The tunnel is covered with a "hatch cover", so the "hatch cover" gets sucked in, and the flying debris that results would be dirt, rocks and trees.

Am I totally off base/wrong? Since we are talking about a fictional hatch, and we don't have the blueprints of its construction, I'm thinking that it could go either way.

BTW, did my post amuse you because you think I'm not as bright as you, or is it just because you feel better about yourself if you can belittle someone publically?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

modnar said:


> The leader guy at the commune definitely resembled Mr. Friendly in appearance and especially sound. I'm not sure if that's coincidence or not, but the resemblance is there...


I thought it was him at first too.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

modnar said:


> The leader guy at the commune definitely resembled Mr. Friendly in appearance and especially sound. I'm not sure if that's coincidence or not, but the resemblance is there...


This guy?








Or this guy?


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> This guy?
> ...


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Count me in the "I really liked this" camp. It was a different side of Locke we got to see - I never imagined him living in a pot-growing hippie commune. The last flashback was incomplete - because the issue was unresolved, the cop left. I wonder if this is a clue on how Locke loses his ability to walk - the cop returns to his superiors, they decide to stage a raid, and in the process Locke gets shot. Then he gets off from charges as he wasn't the ringleader - the young cop even made the comment about how Locke hadn't done anything wrong (I'm paraphrasing here). So Locke's inaction ruined something he loved, and caused him to be paralyzed.

It was nice to see a return to the polar bears - essentially ignored since that season 1 episode. And the creepy tidbits in the cave, like the toy truck.

I wish Eko had done more than lie there like a lump, but I suspect we'll see more of him in the future. And I think other posters are right - Desmond is SO a Terminator!


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Not sure where the disappointment could be. This was a very typical episode of Lost. I enjoyed it. Certainly much better than half of the mid season 2 episodes. Though I would like to know how Hurley found his way back to the camp. He left from a location that he was taken to blindfolded. 

My only regret about the episode is that Charlie wasn't eaten by the bear. The longer he hangs around the greater the chances of having to suffer through another Charlie doing H flashback episode. Please give me the all Vincent flashback episode before having to suffer through another waste of flesh Charlie episode. God I hate hobbits!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Sawyer and Kate were talking to eachother while waiting in a line. She looked mighty hot, by the way.


Mighty hot.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Figaro said:


> Though I would like to know how Hurley found his way back to the camp.


They're on an island. They're on a beach. How hard could it be? 



> God I hate hobbits!


Oh, come on... You didn't like the Ent reference? "Trees are wonderful conversationalists", or something like that.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> They're on an island. They're on a beach. How hard could it be?
> 
> Oh, come on... You didn't like the Ent reference? "Trees are wonderful conversationalists", or something like that.


Well he couldn't find the romantic beach in "Two for the road." That was a simple walk up the beach. So I am guessing he is navigationally challenged. 

I like nothing about that filthy hobbit. Charlie needs to die. He is almost up there with Lana Lang on my TV character death list.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

The commune leaders weren't too bright. If you've got an illegal enterprise going on, you can feed a stray hitchhiker but you definitely bid him a fond farewell in the morning.

Didn't like anything about the polar bear scenes. Eko should have been bleeeeeeeeeeeeped up.


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## deathster (Sep 18, 2000)

AstroDad said:


> is it just me or does it look like Hurley has lost some weight since last season? His face is stil round and all, but his gut looked smaller to me.


Also, Charlie's appearance seemed different to me. I don't know if it was his hair, or if he'd gained a little weight?

Anyone else notice this?

--deathster


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Eko's Jesus stick now says:
> "Lift up your eyes and look North John 3:05"
> 
> At the bottom it also now says 4: 8: 15: 16: (presumably 23 and 42 around the side)
> ...


John 3:05:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Genesis 13:14:

And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

Romans 6:12:

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Acts 4:12:

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Habakkuk 1:3:

Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause me to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence are before me: and there are that raise up strife and contention.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I liked the episode. I will have to admit I am struggling with the timing of the whole compound stuff as well. I was wondering if any of it was even real as it is so outside of anythign we knew about Locke. As mentioned, if it is real, it had to have happened sometime between getting dissed by his dad and his tenure at the box company. I was waiting for them to have Locke get shot so we could know for sure that he did not get injured in Hurley's box factory fire, but because that is in the story, I guess we will wait a while longer to find out how Locke got hurt. 

As far as the one guy there, my wife also thought he was one of the others. I am not so sure as I think it is just a similarity with Mr Friendly, and perhaps with Desmond's hair. (maybe they are into some weird stuff at Dharma!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> No, the commune leader is that Twin Peaks guy. Chris Mulkey. Another actor altogether.


I recognized the name in the credits and later on I said to myself "Where do I know him from? He looks awful!"

Then a few minutes later - "Nadine's husband!"


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

deathster said:


> Also, Charlie's appearance seemed different to me. I don't know if it was his hair, or if he'd gained a little weight?
> 
> Anyone else notice this?
> 
> --deathster


Yeah he definitely looked different, but I am way too lazy to go find pictures for a side by side comparison.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

Warning, new theory based on tiny story detail.

Has anbody thought that maybe the island is in some sort of Groundhog Day time loop. I really hope not because that's a way overused plot device these days.

But...Desmond seems to know about Locke's speech. Could it be because he's lived it before? It follows with the fact that boats apparantly can only sail around the island in circles, like they're stuck in a loop. It's possible Desmond has witnessed that scene before, and in this incarnation has gotten so bored with it he stands off by himself.

This could also account for the Others knowlege of all the Losties. Maybe they are cutoff from the outside world, and have all their information from interrogation and questioning over the same time period, over and over again.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I don't think anyone mentioned the comment the cop made 'Everyone here is looking for a father'. That pissed off Locke.

I think Locke will now try to be the father figure to the losties on his side. I guess he will put together the rescue party.

Cool episode, even though not much happened.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Didn't care much for this episode.

The Locke flashback seemed way out of character and their greenhouse goings-on was way too obvious. I'm used to Lost surprising me but I called that almost from the moment they drove onto the crunchy-granola compound.

I didn't think the scene with Eddie in the woods was suspenseful at all; I knew Locke wouldn't shoot.

Eko's story was just silly. He would have been killed or seriously mauled.

Seeing Hurley and Desmond and the new ppl were cool, the opening shots similar to the pilot was cool, the ending was cool but the rest - eh.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cwoody222 said:


> Eko's story was just silly. He would have been killed or seriously mauled.


Well, if it was a Dharma polar bear (did any of the screen-cap fanatics look for a logo, like on the shark?), perhaps it was programmed to capture and detain until Dharma personnel could recover the prisoner...


Magister said:


> I think Locke will now try to be the father figure to the losties on his side. I guess he will put together the rescue party.


More specifically, as has been suggested above, he has become the new Jack. Not only did his awakening mirror Jack's from the pilot, but his big speech was very Jackish.

It will be interesting to see how he be's Jack differently than Jack be's Jack...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I really disliked this episode. It is a sad day when Jericho, a series I am on the verge of cancelling my SP to, has a better episode than Lost in a week.

Here are my various problems:

1. While I felt overall the Locke flashbacks were good, I also felt like it was a cheap writing trick to not show what happened after he lowered the gun.

2. What is with the supernatural powers suddenly? Previous Locke visions have all only bordered on supernatural. This was flat out supernatural. And the desmond thing too. Worse, I am finding it likely that the desmond thing will just be a throw away "ain't it cool?" thing like showing cynthia watros in the psych ward and then killing her so it is irrelevant.


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, if it was a Dharma polar bear (did any of the screen-cap fanatics look for a logo, like on the shark?), perhaps it was programmed to capture and detain until Dharma personnel could recover the prisoner...


i don't think so, cause one of the skeletons was wearing a pearl station logo tshirt.. and there were a lot of bodies in there.. i think they were all dharma people..


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I really liked this episode. Somehow, growing weed as a business just doesn't seem very Locke-esque though...

what was Locke eating when he went into the sweat tent. Looked like mud. Something to hallucinate? peyote?!!


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## robbhimself (Sep 13, 2006)

> Previous Locke visions have all only bordered on supernatural. This was flat out supernatural.


in the first season he gave boone the same stuff to help him have a vision quest about shannon.. i think he knew what to do in his mind, but needed to realize it..


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## nvaughan3 (May 11, 2006)

crazy episode. need to watch it again. More backstory than present, which seems conistent with comment's from show's creators that the show is less about island than the people on it. The airport scene seemed to give some new info. Hurley was part of the crew? 

I don't mind the polar bears, I'm glad they sort of wrapped up a season one loose end. I think it ties together with the zoology station that sawyer and kate are being held at...


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I thought it was a great episode. We got to see Hurley and Mr. Eko again. Granted Mr. Eko was unconcious most of the time. Did anyone else get the feeling he's going to die??? I hope not because I really like him, but with that last message he gave to John it seemed to fit with everyone having visions of the dead on the island. Kinda like how Ana Lucia came to Eko last season to tell him to help John.

Also, when John kept finding white fluffy stuff in the jungle I kept thinking...is he hunting a polar bear or a teddy bear. I know a polar bear is white but is their fur suppose to look like cotton?


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> Didn't care much for this episode.
> 
> The Locke flashback seemed way out of character and their greenhouse goings-on was way too obvious. I'm used to Lost surprising me but I called that almost from the moment they drove onto the crunchy-granola compound.
> 
> ...


Wow, that's basically what I was thinking!

Locke is my favorite character but this flashback was horrible. I mean, did we really need another lesson on how Locke gets attached to someone and is then cast off? I would have much preferred to 'see' Locke The Hunter (if only because I didn't think we'd learn how he got into a wheelchair this early in the season) then some out-of-left field thing about commune pot farmers.

Thankfully, the Hurley (Dude!) and Desmond stuff was tight as hell. Oh, and despite my disdain for the flashback, it _is_ good to have Locke The Hunter back on the island. The dismantling of that element of Locke's identity seriously weakened last season.

What do you think Locke's vision of the Losties at the airport is supposed to mean?


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> Eko's story was just silly. He would have been killed or seriously mauled.


 That kind of thing doesn't bother me anymore. I've just come to accept it as part of the island's mysterious healing powers. It's no sillier than:

- any of these people surviving the plane crash with minor injuries
- Locke recovering use of his legs
- Rose's cancer disappearing
- Sawyer recovering at amazing speed from his gunshot wound
- Eko, Desmond, Charlie and Locke apparently escaping the hatch mostly unscathed.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

If the show is supposed to be about the characters and not the island then why do they insist on constantly introduction MORE mysteries that relate to the island and give them prominence in the episode? That was my 3rd point I forgot to write above... I'm sick of more mystery. Enough. This isn't the path to enlightenment, every answer should not lead to 10 more questions. Or in this case, every question should not be followed by 20 more before the first one was answered.

I liked the episodes about the others because it seemed like they were at least giving us a concrete thing to ponder. Now in this episode they cheat and introduce more unnecessary mystery. It's like reading a sherlock holmes novel where sherlock interrupts his detective work that involves catching a serial killer to take a vacation in tahiti where he helps find out who stole a woman's purse.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

It just didn't seem realistic to me that people with a drug operation of that magnitude would welcome a drifter as a guest of someone who'd just been welcomed himself... and then sit around for 6 weeks before finding out that he's a cop.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

stiffi said:


> Warning, new theory based on tiny story detail.
> 
> Has anbody thought that maybe the island is in some sort of Groundhog Day time loop. I really hope not because that's a way overused plot device these days.
> 
> ...


SOmething similar crossed my mind as well.


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## thudtrain (Sep 29, 2005)

Figaro said:


> Not sure where the disappointment could be. This was a very typical episode of Lost. I enjoyed it. Certainly much better than half of the mid season 2 episodes. Though I would like to know how Hurley found his way back to the camp. He left from a location that he was taken to blindfolded.


Because, it's Lost, and he was going BACK to camp. It doesn't matter what dangers they encounter on their way to whatever remote part of the island they are going to, 'go on back to camp, now' is completely safe and is accomplished in a matter of minutes


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Didn't Charlie say that Locke was in the jungle for "days" or something like that. That would coincide with Hurley walking back.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

robbhimself said:


> i don't think so, cause one of the skeletons was wearing a pearl station logo tshirt.. and there were a lot of bodies in there.. i think they were all dharma people..


Right, but that's just because the Dharma people never showed up to take them into custody, the prisoners starved to death, and the polar bear thoguht, "Well, heck, can't let all this meat go to waste!"


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

nvaughan3 said:


> crazy episode. need to watch it again. More backstory than present, which seems conistent with comment's from show's creators that the show is less about island than the people on it. The airport scene seemed to give some new info. Hurley was part of the crew?


That entire scene was just a vision Locke had: none of that actually happened. Hurley was NOT part of the crew; in fact we saw him running to get on the plane in an episode a season or two ago.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> Didn't Charlie say that Locke was in the jungle for "days" or something like that. That would coincide with Hurley walking back.


No I think he said "after a day" or "a day after". I am sure someone will be here momentarily with a transcript to prove us both right or wrong.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Figaro said:


> No I think he said "after a day" or "a day after". I am sure someone will be here momentarily with a transcript to prove us both right or wrong.


I don't have the transcript to back it up, but I do remember that Charlie said John had been gone for a whole day.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

hanumang said:


> What do you think Locke's vision of the Losties at the airport is supposed to mean?


I don't think it's supposed to mean anything other than "dreams/hallucinations are weird" and to cement the fact that it was a dream/hallucination and not a flashback of sorts. I don't think it provided any "new information".


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## Philly Bill (Oct 6, 2004)

madscientist said:


> That entire scene was just a vision Locke had: none of that actually happened. Hurley was NOT part of the crew; in fact we saw him running to get on the plane in an episode a season or two ago.


And Kate was handcuffed in custody of the agent taking her back to The States.

(and I doubt Desmond was a pilot  )


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Philly Bill said:


> And Kate was handcuffed in custody of the agent taking her back to The States.


...and Claire was still pregnant, and Charlie was still on the H. In the vision, they were together looking at Aaron.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

At the beginning of the episode, I was concerned that Locke's legs would be paralyzed again. Something about the way his legs were laying had me a little concerned.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Yeah, I noticed that too. So did this guy, who put together this jpeg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, people on that forum jump really quickly to absolute statements, eh? The first guy _states_ "This means that Locke is the new leader".. Ohhh kay.

Great layout of screenshots though! And yeah, I'd also thought that Desmond running around confused and not talking was very much like Vincent.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I thought the airport scene was a look into the future, especially since Claire and Charlie had the baby with them.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

The Jack/Locke sequence could just be conincidence. Did those episodes have the same director?


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

goMO said:


> I thought the airport scene was a look into the future, especially since Claire and Charlie had the baby with them.


Future? I don't see Hurley with all his cash wanting to be a ticket agent at an airport. And the odds of all them in the same airport again in the future? Naa.....


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> They've opened several episodes with the closeup of an eye, but yeah, I also noticed that this was a very much copying Jack waking up in the jungle back in the pilot episode. Nice touch.


I believe that EVERY character that we've done flashbacks on has had the first of those episodes be an eye-opening episode.. (i.e. pilot opened on Jack, it was Jack's flashbacks.. then the first time we see a Locke flashback episode, we open on Locke's eye, etc). Can't remember offhand whose flashbacks we saw in the first episode of season two, but we opened on Desmond's eyes. Even with Juliette, we started with an eye, and then got to see her flashback to earlier on the island (the day of the crash). (Sometimes the eye is during the flashback, in her case, and other times it's current time.. actually, were there others that started in flashbacks? Can't remember.. maybe it's more relevant to say if the eyes were on the island or not instead of in a flashback or not, since her flashback was in the island). (yes, that sentence confuses even me.  )


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

stiffi said:


> Warning, new theory based on tiny story detail.
> 
> Has anbody thought that maybe the island is in some sort of Groundhog Day time loop. I really hope not because that's a way overused plot device these days.
> 
> ...


Well, now that you mention it........and trying to remember the time I _ tried_ to read Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of time........

In the book, Hawking talked a lot about black holes. IIRC, and the experts can please correct me, but the forces around black holes are so strong that light cannot escape. Also, IIRC, there are tremendous magnetic/gravitational forces such that any matter that is pulled into a black hole would be disintegrated very quickly. Also, IIRC, forces such as these can actually "pull" on the space/time continuum. Now, as Hawking notes, matter cannot exist within a black hole, due to the forces. But this being a TV show, what if they stretch the scientific properties to allow for the possibility of a small black hole/electro magnetic force. This could work with you theory of a time/space loop. Though I agree, it is an overused plot device (and a whole upcoming TV show on that premise is going to suck IMHO....sorry Taye Diggs).

Anyways, could Desmond actually be an Other? Ben keeps saying "we're the good guys" which implies another group of Others (which I think the producers have said was/would be the case).

Also, was this the first time we saw Ben in any airport flashback scenes?

Maybe, the whole thing is a pot-induced hallucination of Locke's.........

And, yes, Hurley's Duuuuuuuude with the knife/canteen was classic.

Oh, and very much so, Kate looked very hot in the airport.


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## hapdrastic (Mar 31, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> I don't have the transcript to back it up, but I do remember that Charlie said John had been gone for a whole day.


I was really surprised, reading through this thread, that no one asked what happened to Locke, Eko and Desmond during the rest of that day. The hatch im/exploded, and then a day later they appear, magically unharmed, some distance away from the hatch? Coupled with Desmond's new-found power of seeing the future (and losing clothes), I think there's more to it than a simple "oh, we were knocked out and now we're awake".

Also surprised to hear people disliking this episode - this was my favorite episode so far this season (except the first five minutes of the season opener). Since it was really about bringing things back to the first season, in a way, I guess it's a distinction in whether or not they liked the direction the second season was taken.

And yes, pot-guy looked like Mr. Friendly, and Charlie looks a bit off...I think it's the mullet.


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## modnar (Oct 15, 2000)

hapdrastic said:


> I was really surprised, reading through this thread, that no one asked what happened to Locke, Eko and Desmond during the rest of that day. The hatch im/exploded, and then a day later they appear, magically unharmed, some distance away from the hatch? Coupled with Desmond's new-found power of seeing the future (and losing clothes), I think there's more to it than a simple "oh, we were knocked out and now we're awake".


I'm not sure who next week's episode focuses on, but I bet we'll see the events after the implosion from someone else's perspective this season - maybe that will include the "missing" day.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

jlb said:


> Also, was this the first time we saw Ben in any airport flashback scenes?


It wasn't a flashback. It was Locke's vision/hallucination.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> 2. What is with the supernatural powers suddenly? Previous Locke visions have all only bordered on supernatural. This was flat out supernatural. And the desmond thing too. Worse, I am finding it likely that the desmond thing will just be a throw away "ain't it cool?" thing like showing cynthia watros in the psych ward and then killing her so it is irrelevant.


They've definitely been ramping up, but we already had stuff like this.. Eko had a vision to go help Locke, and to remember to bring the axe.. then while they were looking for the ?, Locke had a dream of Eko's brother (that Eko never talked about), and the dream told him to climb up to the top of that vine thing, which is the only way they saw the ?.

Plus he also had the vision that Boone identified with - someone falls up the stairs, someone falls down the stairs.. (I forget the name.. theresa? elizabeth?)


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

madscientist said:


> That entire scene was just a vision Locke had: none of that actually happened. Hurley was NOT part of the crew; in fact we saw him running to get on the plane in an episode a season or two ago.


Said the exact same thing to my wife last night.

Plus, we see Claire's baby in the airport too.. Wasn't born yet. That wasn't a vision of the past.. And I think a lot of it was too deliberately surreal to withstand any theory that it's a vision of what's to come someday.. Ben is gonna decide to become a security guard? No..

Instead, it's Locke's drug-induced way of picturing things.. Ben working as a security guard with a metal detector might represent his actual role (or Locke's thought of his actual role) of being a protector of people on the island, the same way security guards in airports are supposed to help us.

Hurley working at the terminal typing 4-8-15-16-23-42? Dream... Hurley's numbers.. Maybe Locke is just finally realizing that's significant - as he's been ignoring that Hurley knew about these numbers before they blew the top off of the hatch, screaming "STOP! The numbers are bad!"

The dream is worth analyzing the same way a dream is, and probably no more, with the exception that it's interesting to see what the writers put in there.


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## RoundBoy (Feb 10, 2005)

After reading the 'Lost Experience' wiki from the game over the summer .. i can see where much of these things are explained.... 

There seems to be a valid, gounded reason for having all the Dharma & Greg stations around the lsland .. and for the 'others' to staff them... and perhaps some of the motives involved..

But what doesn't factor in are the supernatural aspects.. such as the smoke 'seeing' images from the mind ... the whispers saying thoughts, future events .. dead voices.. the healing factors, etc.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> They've definitely been ramping up, but we already had stuff like this.. Eko had a vision to go help Locke, and to remember to bring the axe.. then while they were looking for the ?, Locke had a dream of Eko's brother (that Eko never talked about), and the dream told him to climb up to the top of that vine thing, which is the only way they saw the ?.
> 
> Plus he also had the vision that Boone identified with - someone falls up the stairs, someone falls down the stairs.. (I forget the name.. theresa? elizabeth?)


I forgot about the eko's brother thing, but otherwise everything else so far has been on the fine line between supernatural and plausible deniability. This episode crossed directly into obvious supernatural.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

modnar said:


> I don't think it's supposed to mean anything other than "dreams/hallucinations are weird" and to cement the fact that it was a dream/hallucination and not a flashback of sorts. I don't think it provided any "new information".


It does seem significant to me that in the vision, Kate was clearly with Sawyer and Jack was nearby, but not "with" Kate. That could either be a reflection of the current situation, or it could be revealing that Kate and Sawyer belong together, not Kate and Jack. Anyway, I think that aspect of the vision (and some others) mean more than "this is not a flashback."

I agree that it's not literal; e.g., Hurley wasn't a ticket agent.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

One thing I liked about the episode is that it solidified how insecure Locke is and how easily he is sucked into things. He's been sucked in by his father (twice), by Eddie the cop, by the idea that he could do a walkabout, by the allure of fulfilling his dreams once he got to the island and his legs worked, by pushing "the button," etc. He's extremely gullible, and then he's very hard on himself when he figures out he's been duped. He then needs someone else to prop him up.

In this episode, we see Locke telling Eddie he's not a farmer, he's a hunter. However, it's obvious from his actions that he doesn't believe it, and I took that to mean that following that scene (where he let Eddie go), he probably went into a pretty deep depression.

Back on the island, right after that scene, Eko wakes up from being unconscious (or Locke has another vision), where Eko reassures Locke that he's a hunter, giving Locke the confidence and courage to go back to the camp and act like a leader, which he'll need to do in order to "clean up his mess."


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

<Fish Man arrives late to the Lost thread party>

The one thing about the episode that *leaped* out at me was the similarity (nay, nearly identicalness) of Locke waking up in the jungle and the scene of Jack waking up in the jungle in the pilot episode.

Here is my interpretation:

In the pilot episode, there's a plane crash that should absolutely, positively, not have been survivable by anyone.

Yet, the first survivor we meet (Jack) was *apparently thrown (or carried) dozens of YARDS away from the crash!* The *violence* of being thrown this far should have broken every bone in his body and reduced him to a pile of mushy wet dead flesh. Yet, he's got a semi-nasty laceration on his side, a few additional minor scratches and bruises, and that's it.

Flash forward to this episode...

Something in, or very near, the hatch that Locke was in imploded with an awesome violent force. Locke was at "ground zero" of this implosion.

It's inconceivable that he could have survived.

Yet, he did, and he woke up in exactly the same manner, in an identical position even, to Jack in the pilot episode.

The meaning of this, IMHO, is that the same "mysterious force" that saved Jack (and indeed, all the losties) from being killed in the plane crash also saved Locke in the magnetic anomaly implosion.

I liked the episode.

Guesses about Locke's back story:

Locke was a pot farmer after the business with his father (and the "real Helen" etc.) and before his tenure at the box company.

He did not shoot the undercover cop. Perhaps because he didn't, a showdown with the legal authorities later ensued in which he lost the use of his legs.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Sorry guys, I was wrong about Kate & Sawyer, I didn't remember seeing them when I posted late last night. Oh well. 

I still don't see how people can watch three seasons of Lost, then try to say a lengthy (2 minutes at least) vision is nothing but drugs. It MEANS something. We may not know everything it means until Season 5, so get ready for the wait. This is not a bad thing.

Lastly, the reason Desmond knows what will happen? This may be a spoiler, but I did a few searches and found an unreleased photo from the 6th episode of this season. You're not gonna believe this one.

He's Jesus!









Greg


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> It does seem significant to me that in the vision, Kate was clearly with Sawyer and Jack was nearby, but not "with" Kate. That could either be a reflection of the current situation, or it could be revealing that Kate and Sawyer belong together, not Kate and Jack. Anyway, I think that aspect of the vision (and some others) mean more than "this is not a flashback."
> 
> I agree that it's not literal; e.g., Hurley wasn't a ticket agent.


Whoa, unrelated tangent:

It just occurred to me that Jack's previous history (his girl going off w/someone else) is not only being replayed here on the island (with her going off to choose Sawyer), but that there's another interesting bit in there: in Jack's flashbacks, when his wife had already left him, he asked "What was his name? I want to know his name!!".. The guy's name was a mystery..

..and Sawyer's name isn't really even Sawyer..


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I forgot about the eko's brother thing, but otherwise everything else so far has been on the fine line between supernatural and plausible deniability. This episode crossed directly into obvious supernatural.


I'll sit back and let someone else do the research on this one for an encyclopedic list of crossing-the-line events, but there have been a bunch of them, all involving people learning brand new info that they couldn't have possibly known. This can still be introduced by remote viewing or Walt-like-insertion-into-people's-sight/dreams/etc, but it definitely crosses over pure science a few times (unfortunately).


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Plus he also had the vision that Boone identified with - someone falls up the stairs, someone falls down the stairs.. (I forget the name.. theresa? elizabeth?)


Reading this gave me goosebumps.

The name Boone said was Theresa. I remember because it's my daughter's first name.

Goosebumps because daughter's middle name is Elizabeth.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> I'll sit back and let someone else do the research on this one for an encyclopedic list of crossing-the-line events, but there have been a bunch of them, all involving people learning brand new info that they couldn't have possibly known. This can still be introduced by remote viewing or Walt-like-insertion-into-people's-sight/dreams/etc, but it definitely crosses over pure science a few times (unfortunately).


There have been some of them but this one seemed to go far beyond those for me. Even so, I wouldn't have minded it in season 1. We are on season 3 now, though, and it's almost like they are trying to remind us of all the red herrings from season 1. Are they going to start answering them or will this show play out ad nauseam like alias until the viewership dwindles away to nothing in frustration?

If they are truly going to start telling us what's up with this supernatural crap then I'm ok with it. But so far they just introduce a lot of these things and never explain them as they do with other elements, then 5 shows later pretend like they never happened.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

What really struck me during this episode was Locke's blatant waste of paper. He would have written all of his notes to Charlie on one sheet of paper, but no, Mr. Bigshot has to use a separate sheet for each note.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

The Locke flashback episodes are usually my favorites, but this one wasn't as good as previous ones. This was still my favorite episode so far this season. It's nice to get back to more of a traditional LOST episode, and it's nice to see characters like Locke and Hurley. I was missing them in the first two episodes.

Every polar bear moment on this show has been an eye rolling moment for me, and last night was no exception. I can deal though. I'm just glad Eko is still alive. Hey, Desmond didn't even die (or did he?).

Locke's vision seemed extremely consistent with visions Locke and Eko have had before. This was not more "supernatural."

Locke did not shoot the cop (and Sun did have sexual relations with baldy, and Jack did look gaunt). I thought it was great that they let the rifle linger like that, giving the viewers time to wonder if Locke would join Kate and Sawyer as part of the murder club. I thought the "bad things happen" line was referring to the fact that Locke thought of the commune as his family, and he destroyed that family by bringing in an outsider.


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## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

tivoboyjr said:


> What really struck me during this episode was Locke's blatant waste of paper. He would have written all of his notes to Charlie on one sheet of paper, but no, Mr. Bigshot has to use a separate sheet for each note.


If he had written really small, the audience wouldn't have been able to read it.


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## miscellaneous (Oct 28, 2004)

stiffi said:


> If he had written really small, the audience wouldn't have been able to read it.


No, I'm totally with him on this one - it got to me, too. If you're on an island in the middle of nowhere, by day 60 or 70, you don't waste paper like that. He could have written two of those messages on the same page, the same size as he originally did.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

miscellaneous said:


> No, I'm totally with him on this one - it got to me, too. If you're on an island in the middle of nowhere, by day 60 or 70, you don't waste paper like that. He could have written two of those messages on the same page, the same size as he originally did.


Maybe the supply drops contain reams of paper. Such a minor thing, who cares?


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

gchance, if your picture is for real it is most certainly a spoiler. Untagged screenshots from future episodes are unambiguously off limits per the forum's spoiler rules. There is a sticky thread at the top of the forum where you can familarize yourself with those rules. Please promptly edit your post to remove or spoiler-tag this information. 

When Locke lost his voice and was gesturing around it just didn't work for me. Jeez, you're surrounded by sand! Just write your message in the sand with your finger. How is Locke not bright enough to figure that out?

For some reason I assumed that the pot-commune flashback pre-dated everything else we saw about Locke. I think it was the facial hair. Also I didn't get why they jumped straight to packing up and leaving, or confronting the guy with a gun. If he doesn't have any evidence, just tell him he can't stay at the commune anymore, they've decided he doesn't fit in, etc. and escort him off the property. Maybe they would send someone else to try again but without the evidence the cop would probably go quietly at first to consult with his superiors and regroup. 

So how did Desmond know about the speech? I don't love the time-loop explanation but I don't have much else to offer. 

I don't really like the polar bear subplot, but at least they are bringing back some of the throwaway details from Season 1. That increases my confidence that they do have an overall plan here, which is a plus for me.


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## jami (Dec 18, 2003)

Ruth said:


> For some reason I assumed that the pot-commune flashback pre-dated everything else we saw about Locke. I think it was the facial hair.


I assumed it was after the con, because of the comments he made about how awful his real family was - now he had a new family.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

jami said:


> I assumed it was after the con, because of the comments he made about how awful his real family was - now he had a new family.


Locke's reaction to the everyone looking for a father line also indicated to me that Locke's father storyline had already played out.

The Jesus thing was just a joke.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

DLiquid said:


> Locke did not shoot the cop (and Sun did have sexual relations with baldy, and Jack did look gaunt).


 You got 2 out of 3 right. 



DLiquid said:


> I thought the "bad things happen" line was referring to the fact that Locke thought of the commune as his family, and he destroyed that family by bringing in an outsider.


That makes sense, especially with the stuff about "bringing the family back together." However, I still think we're going to see Eddie buying it in an upcoming episode. I think he will get killed and Locke shot/paralyzed either in a shootout with law enforcement or when Mike and Jan realize Locke won't clean up his mess and go to take care of it themselves.


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

DLiquid said:


> The Jesus thing was just a joke.


Ooops. Sorry for the unneccessary admonishment.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stiffi said:


> If he had written really small, the audience wouldn't have been able to read it.


It's kind of like on television when two people go two steps away from a third person and have a converstion in a normal tone of voice that the third person can't hear. It's a television convention, done for practical reasons, that we just accept because that's the way it's always done.

Of course, we always have the option of not accepting it, and either never watching television or going on the internet and complaining endlessly about it...


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> I thought it was a great episode. We got to see Hurley and Mr. Eko again. Granted Mr. Eko was unconcious most of the time. Did anyone else get the feeling he's going to die??? I hope not because I really like him, but with that last message he gave to John it seemed to fit with everyone having visions of the dead on the island. Kinda like how Ana Lucia came to Eko last season to tell him to help John.


Well, he did get into some trouble over the offseason, the actor that is.. so maybe they planned to kill him off, but when the charges got dropped, they changed their mind...


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

I got prophet feelings from Desmond. Emerging from the jungle naked with the ability to know pieces of the future...the beard, long hair...

But along a different line...if Hurley really was the only person to see Desmond, then how did Hurley's subconcsious know about Locke's speech?

J


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

stiffi said:


> If he had written really small, the audience wouldn't have been able to read it.


Because the "zoom" function on the camera was broken.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Perhaps the island is right on the International Date Line, so if you head West, you're in tomorrow -- then you can head back East and be in today (or yesterday if you started on the West side) -- and you still remember speeches you heard tomorrow?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

goMO said:


> I thought the airport scene was a look into the future, especially since Claire and Charlie had the baby with them.


That was my first thought too. Not 100% real future, but a view of it. Ben being in the airport reminded me of him promising to TAKE Jack home.

Could someone explain the idea of "imploding" to a lay person? I understand it means going in instead of out, but how would that work? Where would the stuff go?

The whole pot farm thing seemed so out of character for Locke. All the praying and goody goody stuff and yet he knew they were just growing an illegal crop for piles of cash? I could see if he didn't know that, cause for a smart guy he seems really gullible about people. So maybe it'll turn out that the pot was for cancer victims or some worthy cause or the money was for a worthy cause. There has to be more to this backstory.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> The whole pot farm thing seemed so out of character for Locke. All the praying and goody goody stuff and yet he knew they were just growing an illegal crop for piles of cash? I could see if he didn't know that, cause for a smart guy he seems really gullible about people. So maybe it'll turn out that the pot was for cancer victims or some worthy cause or the money was for a worthy cause. There has to be more to this backstory.


That seemed off to me also, but if the timeline is after what happened with his father and Helen then maybe the people taking him in filled something from their loss. He was willing to look past what they were doing for the sense of belonging.

J


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> All the praying and goody goody stuff and yet he knew they were just growing an illegal crop for piles of cash?


"Farmers" such as these are not unusual in Humboldt County. Who says they were making piles of cash? Maybe they just made enough to sustain their little community. From what we've seen of Locke's backstory, this is the only time he really did fit in somewhere. It does not seem out of character for him to embrace it.


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## Squeege96 (May 1, 2006)

Ruth said:


> gchance, if your picture is for real it is most certainly a spoiler. Untagged screenshots from future episodes are unambiguously off limits per the forum's spoiler rules. There is a sticky thread at the top of the forum where you can familarize yourself with those rules. Please promptly edit your post to remove or spoiler-tag this information.


Please tell me this is a joke.

/Edit: Sorry, knee-jerk reaction post. I see that it was a mistake.


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## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

The concept that Eddie would not know what was going on in the growing hut is beyond credibility. The aroma of all that mj would have permeated the whole camp. And, do they really expect us to believe he was there for 6 weeks and no one lit up a joint?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

mqpickles said:


> Reading this gave me goosebumps.
> 
> The name Boone said was Theresa. I remember because it's my daughter's first name.
> 
> Goosebumps because daughter's middle name is Elizabeth.


Umm, err, yeah.. (Jeff throws another rock out into the ocean, and tries not to say any more that he's not supposed to know)


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Granny said:


> The concept that Eddie would not know what was going on in the growing hut is beyond credibility. The aroma of all that mj would have permeated the whole camp. And, do they really expect us to believe he was there for 6 weeks and no one lit up a joint?


well the counts he could get them on for lighting a joint (outside of the greenhouse) are not even worth exposing the fact that he's undercover. He wouldn't reveal until he could really nail them on intent to distribute.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

My wife got me into this show since the last season - she watched every episode on DVD and I saw about a third of them. So I apologize in advance for any ignorance on my part, or if what I'm about to propose has been discussed in prior threads, or is banal or merely overspeculative.

Is it possible that the island is Purgatory? That, in fact, they're all dead, and just biding time, or perhaps atoning for their sins, until Judgement Day. That would explain how they all "survived" the crash - they actually didn't. And how Locke, Eko, Hobbitboy and Irishjesus all survived the hatch implosion - they actually didn't, because in fact they were already "dead." And Locke recovered his ability to walk on the island because, well, because Purgatory people get their functioning back.

That would make the "Others" angels - i.e., the "good guys." Remember how the Others all came out of their homes and seemed to be looking up at the sky for no reason, and then they saw the plane and its breakup? Instantly, they sprang to action, getting themselves infiltrated into the group. Perhaps the Others are angels whose job it is to prepare new dead people for Purgatory, so they've been through this whole drill many times before - that's how they knew to look up for a plane crashing.

Here's an interesting question related to this idea - why have the Others separated Kate, Sawyer and Jack from the rest of the gang? Well, I learned from the thread this week that both Kate and Sawyer have killed people. Is it possible that Jack is a third member of the "have killed people club" and dead people who have killed someone on earth have to go through a bit more rigorous Purgatory process? Therefore, the Others have separated them to put them through that process. (Interestingly, Locke pulling the trigger on Eddie could have dispelled that theory because he too would be a killer but not taken in for special "processing" - but he didn't pull the trigger, so my theory is alive!)

Perhaps all the characters are there to in some way atone for their earthly sins.

Locke's vision in this episode seen from this angle also has some additional meaning. The plane all the characters are waiting to board in the vision is the plane to Heaven. "Henry" is the security guard, because, well, because that's exactly what he is - the gatekeeper on Purgatory for Heaven. That Irishjesus is the pilot of the plane is interesting - perhaps that means he actually IS Jesus! Or perhaps just a high angel. And Hurley as the ticket guy - hmmmm, not sure I can explain that one.

Anyway, thought I'd throw this out there - I don't think it needs be spoilerized because it's all just rampant speculation entirely based on episodes already shown. Let me know if I'm wrong.


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## Tweety_pbe98 (Dec 16, 2002)

Are we sure the polar bear in this episode was real? Did anyone (Charlie?) actually see it, other than Locke? It could have all been more hallucination.

I think that the Tonka truck and other cave items were a little off. Maybe someone/something else took Eko? The Child Others? The white fluff could have been stuffing from the teddy bear.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> My wife got me into this show since the last season - she watched every episode on DVD and I saw about a third of them...
> ... Let me know if I'm wrong.


I'd say you're wrong. Your speculation is along the lines of ideas we've already discussed since Season One. But I really recommend getting caught up on the other two-thirds of the episodes you haven't seen yet. :up:



Tweety_pbe98 said:


> Are we sure the polar bear in this episode was real? ...
> I think that the Tonka truck and other cave items were a little off.


Here's my little speculation on the Polar Bear and the Tonka Truck and the zoology camp where Kate & Sawyer are being kept, and from where Carl (the younger Other) escaped: Maybe they are being injected with something to turn them into animals? The polar bear might be Carl, and the Tonka truck might have been his since his younger days. And the fact that Ekko wasn't mauled as much as we might expect could be because the animal instinct is being suppressed by Carl's humanity.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> Is it possible that the island is Purgatory?


This was probably the most common and popular theory from the day the pilot aired. However, the creators have definitively said that is is NOT Purgatory.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

jwjody said:


> I got prophet feelings from Desmond. Emerging from the jungle naked with the ability to know pieces of the future...the beard, long hair...


Hi ALL,

I watched the whole episode but I don't remember where Desmond says he knows the future. Could someone post a short description of where in the episode this came about and what happened.

Thanks,
Gerry


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

atrac said:


> What's up with Hurley's "Deja-Vu" at the end? I don't remember anything like that scene from before.


I think it was product placement for the upcoming Touchtone film of the same name... 

I'm not going to hold on too much regarding the weirdness around Desmond. I figure if he ever gets too mystifying then they'll just kill him and hope that we forget about it. (See Libby, as mentioned earlier in this thread.)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Gerryex said:


> Hi ALL,
> 
> I watched the whole episode but I don't remember where Desmond says he knows the future. Could someone post a short description of where in the episode this came about and what happened.
> 
> ...


Desmond mentioned to Hurley, while they were still headed back to the beach, that Locke had said in his speech that they would all go save Jack, Kate, & Sawyer.

At the end of the episode, Locke gave that speech, and then Hurley mentioned the deja-vu, because he realized Desmond had been talking about something in the future.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

Gerryex said:


> I watched the whole episode but I don't remember where Desmond says he knows the future. Could someone post a short description of where in the episode this came about and what happened.


When Desmond is talking with Hurley in the woods, Hurley says something about not going after the missing people. Desmond replies "but Locke said we would in his speech." Hurley looks at him funny and says "Locke didn't say anything like that." Desmond gets all sheepish and says "uhh, yeah right, I guess he didn't say that."

At the end of the episode, Locke gives a speech to everyone and says "we're going after our missing comrades." (not a quote - paraphrasing). Hurley just stares at Desmond, who is off throwing rocks.

[EDIT: Dang - I'm a smeeker!]


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Gerryex said:


> Hi ALL,
> 
> I watched the whole episode but I don't remember where Desmond says he knows the future. Could someone post a short description of where in the episode this came about and what happened.
> 
> ...


Desmond mentions to Hurley something about Locke's speech at the end of the episode, where he says he will organize an effort to get the captured people back. Hurley doesn't understand the reference and is confused b/c Locke hasn't said anything about that. Desmond startles and backs off saying something like, oh of course and changes the subject. Then, at the end of the episode Locke gives the speech that Desmond apparently knew was coming, and Hurley gets a weird look and says he has "deja vu" -- but it seems that he doesn't really have deja vu, just that he remembers Desmond knew the speech was coming. So it seems Desmond can predict the future -- how else did he know what Locke would say?

Crap -- I'm a double-smeeker!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

deathster said:


> Also, Charlie's appearance seemed different to me. I don't know if it was his hair, or if he'd gained a little weight?
> 
> Anyone else notice this?


Looks like he's putting on a little bit of muscle. More broad shouldered. Since the paparazzi pics seem to show that he and Evangeline spending all their free time at the beach and surfing, maybe it has to do with that.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

You people are smeeking all over yourselves.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

Hi Ruth, Bananfish and devdogaz,

Thanks!! I remember Desmond talking to Hurley in the woods, but I don't remember enough about what he said. I do remember Hurley talking about deja-vu at the end, but for some reason I though he remembered Desmond as possibly someone from when he was institutionalized.

But what you all are saying makes more sense.

Thanks again,
Gerry


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Tweety_pbe98 said:


> The white fluff could have been stuffing from the teddy bear.


I nominate this for most bizarre theory of the thread.



getreal said:


> Maybe they are being injected with something to turn them into animals? The polar bear might be Carl


Scratch that, I nominate this for most bizarre theory.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> I nominate this for most bizarre theory of the thread.
> 
> Scratch that, I nominate this for most bizarre theory.


Second!

Quick, find out whose name is an anagram for "Dr. Moreau"


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

I just rewatched Locke's vision. Here's what we see...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------​
It starts with Locke being wheeled into the airport by Boone. No other people from the island are seen.

Boone says, "John. Someone in this airport is in serious danger. You are the only one who can save them."

Then, we see Charlie and Claire. Claire is holding Aaron and Charlie is smiling at mother and son. Locke points towards them, concerned. Boone looks and says, "Not them. They'll be fine...for a while."

Then, it cuts to Sun & Jin standing in line at the ticket counter. Sayid is in line behind them. Sun & Jin are arguing. Sayid taps Jin on the shoulder to indicate the next ticket counter is available. Locke is now pointing in their direction, but Boone dismisses him, "I think Sayid's got it."

Next, cut to Hurley working at the ticket counter. Hurley says, "Next please." Then, we see Hurley typing the numbers into his computer and we hear what sounds like the countdown resetting in the hatch. Boone says, "Not Hurley."

Then, we see Desmond coming down the escalator dressed as an airline pilot, with three flight attendants (the FA who was one of the tail survivors doesn't appear to be one of them). Boone says, "Forget it. He's helping himself."

Next, Locke is wheeled up to a glass wall looking into the security checkpoint. Kate & Sawyer are standing in the security line. Kate & Sawyer appear to be travelling together and talking to each other. Ahead in the security line, we see Jack taking off his watch, putting it through the x-ray machine, then being wanded by Ben (in a TSA uniform). Locke is waving his arms trying to get Jack's attention. Kate & Sawyer are still in line talking/flirting. Locke can't get their attention and Boone says, "There's nothing you can do for them. Not yet. First, you have to clean up your own mess." -- the last line echoes (Eko's?) a few times.

Next the camera starts moving erratically and Locke is looking at Boone confused. Then, Boone is gone and Locke is alone at the bottom of the escalator. Boone is at the top and waves for Locke to join him, "Come up here John."

Next, we see Locke riding up the escalator, no longer in his chair. At the top, he drags himself along the floor until he puts his hand into a puddle on the floor...it appears to be blood. He then sees Eko's Jesus stick with blood on the handle and we hear Boone say, "Clean it up, John."

John looks up to see Boone covered in blood, and he says, "They've got him. You don't have much time."

Then, Locke awakens inside the sweat lodge.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------​
The vision is not a flashback to actual events for reasons already mentioned in this thread. The scene was shot at the same location as the airport scenes in previous episodes (the long escalator behind the check-in counter has been seen before), the people are preparing to board an Oceanic flight, and the sign behind Jack at the security check point says "Sydney Airport" (which doesn't explain Ben's TSA uniform). It doesn't make any sense that this would be a vision of the future.

Just as our dreams tend to mash together unrelated things from our daily lives, Locke's vision put the survivors and their current situations into context within the airport concept.

Desmond being shown as a pilot could be explained by the fact that by causing the discharge that broke up Oceanic 815, he was responsible for bringing the survivors to the island, just as a pilot is responsible for bringing a plane to its intended destination.

Claire, Aaron, and Charlie are shown to be happy and safe. Sayid, Jin, and Sun are on their own, but appear to be safe -- Sayid is looking out for them.

I don't know what Hurley being the ticket agent can be interpretted to mean.

I think the most interesting aspect is that Jack, Sawyer, and Kate are separated from everyone else in the security area (which means they're further ahead of everyone else, who still don't have their boarding passes). They're in the same location as the rest of the people (airport/island) but cannot be reached (waiting at security/captives of the Others).

In both contexts Ben is the person controlling their fate at this point. It's interesting that Ben is shown in the role of security guard because it is a "good" role (Ben claims to be a good guy), but at the airport the security staff can be seen as people who are there to only frustrate you and make the experience as painful as possible. At the airport, once you get past security, you are free to continue your trip; before security, you're being pushed and prodded along a tedious path just to get your boarding pass, then to get through security. At the airport, you have no choice but to do what is asked of you because it's the only way you can get to where you want to go.

Are Jack, Kate, and Sawyer closer to their final destination than the rest of the survivors? Is Ben the person who controls whether they'll be allowed to go home or be asked to go into the side room where they're given an "advanced" examination?

It's interesting that Michael and Walt aren't in the vision at all since Locke has spent a lot of his time on the island concerned about Walt, and Michael was last seen going off with Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley to get Walt. From our point of view, we know that Michael and Walt are "safe", but Locke wouldn't know it. None of the people on the beach would know it until Hurley returns.

Another strange thing was that Boone said "They've got him", but it turned out that it was the polar bear that had Eko and Locke seemed to figure that out pretty quickly and he wasn't concerned about it being a trap by the Others or anything like that.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Tweety_pbe98 said:


> Are we sure the polar bear in this episode was real? Did anyone (Charlie?) actually see it, other than Locke? It could have all been more hallucination.


Yeah, possibly. There's been a few posts here mentioning that it's nice to see the polar bears again since it seemed like writers never went anywhere with them after season one. But I haven't seen a post reminding us of the other episode where a polar bear tried to attack and then cornered Walt. In that episode, several others saw the bear, and we were lead to believe that maybe the bear wasn't an inhabitant and that perhaps Walt had unknowingly conjured it. But, myself, I've always believed the bears are likely real... mostly because of the episode where Sayid first met Rousseau, she mentioned "the bears".


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Locke is such a wuss in personal relationships. Why did he let them put all the blame for bringing in the cop on him? Clearly they are in charge, and they let the guy stay there for 6 weeks--I'm sure that wasn't Locke's decision as the new guy. I don't get why Locke is so desperate for friends. He's a nice guy, nice looking, and yet he never seems so fit in anywhere.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> My wife got me into this show since the last season - she watched every episode on DVD and I saw about a third of them. So I apologize in advance for any ignorance on my part, or if what I'm about to propose has been discussed in prior threads, or is banal or merely overspeculative. Is it possible that the island is Purgatory?


 Maybe this theory is all three.  j/k

Actually, it has been discussed here off and on virtually since the show's inception. It's certainly not been ruled out within the show's context


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

ElJay said:


> I think it was product placement for the upcoming Touchtone film of the same name...


Also, don't forget the ABC series Day Break that they were advertising too.

Which reminds me, I found it really odd that that was the first time I saw a preview for the movie, then the tv show and then have another deja vu reference in the actual show. And then I see a post here about the whole island being like groundhog's day. That's just way too much deja vu for me to digest in a 24 hour time frame


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

hapdrastic said:


> Also surprised to hear people disliking this episode - this was my favorite episode so far this season (except the first five minutes of the season opener). Since it was really about bringing things back to the first season, in a way, I guess it's a distinction in whether or not they liked the direction the second season was taken.


I agree - this was also my favorite episode so far.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but this episode easily could have been the season opener. I'm trying to imagine how that would have changed the tenor of the season so far if the first three episode aired as 3, 1 and then 2, instead of the order we've seen them.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

getbak said:


> Another strange thing was that Boone said "They've got him", but it turned out that it was the polar bear that had Eko and Locke seemed to figure that out pretty quickly and he wasn't concerned about it being a trap by the Others or anything like that.


so how did Locke make the connection from that to bears??

nice analysis.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> Maybe this theory is all three.  j/k
> 
> Actually, it has been discussed here off and on virtually since the show's inception. It's certainly not been ruled out within the show's context


Yeah, I knew I certainly couldn't have been the first wannabe genius with that theory. And I was afraid even before I posted that I was putting myself into rolling-eyes-at-yet-another-newbie-spouting-obvious-and-banal-theories-that-were-two-seasons-ago territory, but I had to go and do it anyway!

And as you say, within the show's context it hasn't been ruled out. Although the show's creators have said "it's not purgatory", they could be being coy, or perhaps they simply mean it's not the Catholic Purgatory-with-a-capital-P Purgatory. It could still be a purgatoryish place.


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## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> so how did Locke make the connection from that to bears??


Well, he also saw the polar bear at the end of the vision - it snarled at him in the fire just as he jumped out of the mini-temple he built. Which was pretty much the same thing he saw when he rescued Eko - he saw the bear's face in the fire he made as he hairspray-fired it.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I loved Locke's hallucination, the way it was shot and edited. The shots of him riding up on the escalator and dragging himself onto the upper level were just downright creepy.


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## rhermoso (Nov 7, 2005)

I want to revisit somebody's idea that only Hurley and Locke have seen Desmond. I started watching the show last year and from what I'm told Desmond had appeared earlier, in the hatch, and then sailed away. When he returned - Was Locke the only one to see him both times? If so, it's possible that Desmond is A. either a figment of Locke's imagination; B. was real when he sailed away but was only a ghost upon return; ie. Locke thought he had returned and was interacting with a ghost after locking out Echo or C. was real throughout Season 2 but it now a ghost.

Scenario C makes the most sense, especially when you consider it would've been pretty darn hard to survive a hatch implosion when he was at the center of it, Hurley has a history of imaginery friends, we never see anyone interact with Desmond after Hurley returns to the beach and no one seems to think it's odd that he is tossing rocks into the ocean when Locke brings Echo back. It's like he's not there.

Anyone?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

rhermoso said:


> I want to revisit somebody's idea that only Hurley and Locke have seen Desmond. I started watching the show last year and from what I'm told Desmond had appeared earlier, in the hatch, and then sailed away. When he returned - Was Locke the only one to see him both times? If so, it's possible that Desmond is A. either a figment of Locke's imagination; B. was real when he sailed away but was only a ghost upon return; ie. Locke thought he had returned and was interacting with a ghost after locking out Echo or C. was real throughout Season 2 but it now a ghost.
> 
> Scenario C makes the most sense, especially when you consider it would've been pretty darn hard to survive a hatch implosion when he was at the center of it, Hurley has a history of imaginery friends, we never see anyone interact with Desmond after Hurley returns to the beach and no one seems to think it's odd that he is tossing rocks into the ocean when Locke brings Echo back. It's like he's not there.
> 
> Anyone?


Desmond returned with a physical boat that Sun, Jin, and Sayid are on now, and that Sawyer and Jack were on too. He had possession of a key that activated the failsafe. We saw his flashbacks during that episode.

If Desmond should be dead, then Locke and Eko should too - they were all in the same area (roughly). I like the theory that they were "rescued" the same way they were from the plane - but if that's to work as a story, we should be hearing that within these first 6 episodes, I'd hope.

Plus, Desmond's the tie to the most real thing we've seen so far (we think) - Penny and the guys playing chess in the snow..

As for Desmond being dead NOW though (not when he got back on the boat), it's possible - and certainly worth a rewatch. Seeing his private expression while looking at the ocean though, I think it's far more interesting if he's alive and seeing visions or reliving moments..


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

DCIFRTHS said:


> I'm a huge fan of the show, I came here to have some fun, and discuss the episode, but I'm glad I amused you instead
> 
> BTW, did my post amuse you because you think I'm not as bright as you, or is it just because you feel better about yourself if you can belittle someone publically?


I'm a hunter.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> Umm, err, yeah.. (Jeff throws another rock out into the ocean, and tries not to say any more that he's not supposed to know)


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

stiffi said:


> Warning, new theory based on tiny story detail.
> 
> Has anbody thought that maybe the island is in some sort of Groundhog Day time loop. I really hope not because that's a way overused plot device these days.
> 
> ...


Along these lines, I was talking with a coworker about Lost just the other day. He is catching up on the season 2 DVDs now. He mentioned something that, if true, i'm surprised the forums haven't picked up on. He was either reading or listening to an interview with some of the writers of the show and a certain book was mentioned in the interview. The writer(s) said that anyone who had read <insert book name here> would have much better ammunition for their Lost theorizing. My coworker was familiar with the book and said it involved some sort of Groundhog Day type plot where the end of the book wrapped back around to the beginning. Even without having seen any of season 3, he seemed convinced that this is how things will turn out.

Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book or where he heard/read about it. Is anyone familiar with this as a possible inspiration for Lost? I wish I could come up with more detail but I feel like anyone who knows at all what I'm talking about will understand it from that description.


----------



## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

[DougF] Lost "white dude saves black dude from polar bear" scenes are getting out of hand. [/DougF]


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Bananfish said:


> And as you say, within the show's context it hasn't been ruled out. Although the show's creators have said "it's not purgatory", they could be being coy, or perhaps they simply mean it's not the Catholic Purgatory-with-a-capital-P Purgatory. It could still be a purgatoryish place.


I agree that's a definite possibility, and whatever it is precisely, the characters are going through some sort of testing and purification process. I keep coming back to this show being called Lost, not Crashed or Stranded or Island of Mystery. Why? Because these people were lost long before they ever got on that plane in Sydney. And I think that's what the producers mean when they say the story is about the people more than about the island.


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## Eight47 (Feb 22, 2003)

stalemate said:


> Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book or where he heard/read about it. Is anyone familiar with this as a possible inspiration for Lost? I wish I could come up with more detail but I feel like anyone who knows at all what I'm talking about will understand it from that description.


I read an article last year about Lost and the book mentioned was _The Third Policeman_ by Flann O'Brien.

I have it but haven't gotten around to reading it.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I'm kinda mixed on the episode. It was definitely better than the first 2 this season, but I think the order should have been 1 - 3 - 2. It also seemed to drag in the second half hour. So I liked it, and I didn't like it. We're halfway through Arc #1, and February is a long time aways.

It takes 45-50 minutes of show time before Hurley gets to the camp, and he's apparently so distracted by the sight of Desmond's equipment that he forgets to tell anyone about Jack, Sawyer and Kate? Excuse me? 

Locke's flashback - seen it. I think we've all figured out that Locke has (over)trust issues, thanks for clearing that one up. As mentioned early on, where does this fit exactly on the time line? And the whole "hunter/farmer" Aesop Fable didn't work for me.

So, in the beginning, he's a farmer. Commune, collecting fruit, growing weed. But hunters apparently clean up messes, so he goes out with the cop - ironically _hunting_ for deer. But they don't find any (good hunting!), but Locke reveals the real reason for the trip, to shoot the cop. But he can't apparently.

Which would all seem to mean that he is *not* a hunter. I can't see how the flashback proves that he is one. But then Eko says "You're a hunter", and John goes into Rambo-mode again. Maybe someone can tell me what I'm not seeing here.

He confronts the cop (a hunter), but fails. Now he confronts the bear (also a hunter) and totally succeeds. The flashback didn't connect the dots for me, I guess. Are farmers not allowed to clean up messes? 

I have no problem with the anomaly imploding. I have no trouble with the station following suit and imploding. Imploding in this case would be like how we drop highrise buildings, by removing the structure foundations explosively. Not like how we use implosion to create an atomic bomb.

And it's more akin to a sinkhole than a cannonball.


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## kmcorbett (Dec 7, 2002)

Eight47 said:


> I read an article last year about Lost and the book mentioned was _The Third Policeman_ by Flann O'Brien.
> 
> I have it but haven't gotten around to reading it.


I read it but I haven't gotten around to understanding it.


----------



## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Eight47 said:


> I read an article last year about Lost and the book mentioned was _The Third Policeman_ by Flann O'Brien.
> 
> I have it but haven't gotten around to reading it.


This must be it. From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Policeman



> The circular, self-referential nature of the book is evident from the ending; the storyline gradually brings the reader to the point where the book starts, and the last few paragraphs echo the opening.
> 
> ...
> 
> The novel was featured in the October 5, 2005 episode of the hit television series Lost. At one point during the episode (entitled "Orientation"), a copy of the book can be seen. The episode concerns the main characters' discovery of a mechanism which they are told must be reset at every 108 minutes by entering the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42), or else "the world will be destroyed." The series' creators have said that anyone who has read the book "will have a lot more ammunition when dissecting plotlines" of the show. The book has seen a significant sales increase since its role in Lost.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I sure hope that ben and others aren't the descendants of the losties. That would really annoy me. Especially if jack slept with the blonde and ended up having the blonde's dad or something along those lines (terminator 1 type stuff).


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

bruinfan said:


> so how did Locke make the connection from that to bears??


Did Stephen Colbert appear in Locke's visions?


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Delta13 said:


> Locke's flashback - seen it. I think we've all figured out that Locke has (over)trust issues, thanks for clearing that one up. As mentioned early on, where does this fit exactly on the time line? And the whole "hunter/farmer" Aesop Fable didn't work for me.
> 
> So, in the beginning, he's a farmer. Commune, collecting fruit, growing weed. But hunters apparently clean up messes, so he goes out with the cop - ironically _hunting_ for deer. But they don't find any (good hunting!), but Locke reveals the real reason for the trip, to shoot the cop. But he can't apparently.
> 
> ...


I dont know if this exactly answers your question, but here goes. Locke has had this image of himself (for one thing, as a hunter), and he has never lived up to it. Hes disappointed himself (along with other people disappointing him) time after time, including he tries to be a hunter and kill this cop to clean up his mess, but he cant do it. Then he goes to this island, and tries to make things different this time. He heads down the road of having total faith in the island, then that gets dashed (Boone killed, then the psych experiment video), and he feels duped again and gives up completely. When the implosion happens, he says I was wrong, realizing that he shouldnt have completely lost faith. Then Ekko tells him You are a hunter. He has another chance, and not only that, but maybe he realizes that being a hunter is something different than what he had thought it meant all along. Lets face it, leading a guy out in the woods and executing him is not hunting, but leading a search party to rescue JK&S could be.

So, maybe the point of the whole episode is Locke getting further instructions (from Boone vision and Ekko) about what hes supposed to be doing on the island and, more importantly, with his life. He already knew he was a hunter, but he needed more guidance about what that meant. And its actually a good thing that he never lived up to the hunter image he had for himself, because that image was skewed from his true purpose anyway.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> It takes 45-50 minutes of show time before Hurley gets to the camp, and he's apparently so distracted by the sight of Desmond's equipment that he forgets to tell anyone about Jack, Sawyer and Kate? Excuse me?


Locke's speech indicated otherwise. Hurley told everyone about it offscreen. This is why Locke said they would go to get them after Eko was recovered. He knows what the others said, but doesn't care. If Hurley hadn't told him, he'd have no idea what happened to them.

Greg


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Locke has proven himself as a hunter on multiple occasions. I don't buy the not living up to it thing. The way he doesn't live up to his own expectations revolve around faith and letting others down, not around being a hunter.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

gchance said:


> Locke's speech indicated otherwise. Hurley told everyone about it offscreen. This is why Locke said they would go to get them after Eko was recovered. He knows what the others said, but doesn't care. If Hurley hadn't told him, he'd have no idea what happened to them.
> 
> Greg


I agree - the whole scene seemed off to me and I even remember when the two new Losties were pestering Hurley (I believe one of them said "Your'e just telling us NOW?!?!") I was like "WTF? He just got back?" I'll have to rewatch but it seemed like Hurley and Desmond didn't get back much sooner than Locke, Charlie & Eko.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Locke has proven himself as a hunter on multiple occasions. I don't buy the not living up to it thing. The way he doesn't live up to his own expectations revolve around faith and letting others down, not around being a hunter.


Well, most hunters I know are pretty fanatical about gun safety and right and wrong and would easily be able to draw a line between murder and hunting, so he could be a great hunter and not shoot the cop.


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

Not much to add other than I had the Jesus connection in the final shots of Desmond. No I idea where they would go with that 

-murray


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

murrays said:


> Not much to add other than I had the Jesus connection in the final shots of Desmond. No I idea where they would go with that
> 
> -murray


He's looking a bit like Jesus with the beard & long hair, I just find it hilarious that he's adopted that look here considering he played Jesus in the past (hence my pasted picture).

Greg


----------



## stiffi (Jun 14, 2006)

rhermoso said:


> I want to revisit somebody's idea that only Hurley and Locke have seen Desmond. I started watching the show last year and from what I'm told Desmond had appeared earlier, in the hatch, and then sailed away. When he returned - Was Locke the only one to see him both times? If so, it's possible that Desmond is A. either a figment of Locke's imagination; B. was real when he sailed away but was only a ghost upon return; ie. Locke thought he had returned and was interacting with a ghost after locking out Echo or C. was real throughout Season 2 but it now a ghost.
> 
> Scenario C makes the most sense, especially when you consider it would've been pretty darn hard to survive a hatch implosion when he was at the center of it, Hurley has a history of imaginery friends, we never see anyone interact with Desmond after Hurley returns to the beach and no one seems to think it's odd that he is tossing rocks into the ocean when Locke brings Echo back. It's like he's not there.
> 
> Anyone?


Jack and Kate have both had experiences with Desmond. When they first went into the hatch, Desmond held a gun to Kate's head while Jack was helpless, and Locke tried to convince him it was okay.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I just noticed: there aren't any more sudden rainshowers like in season 1.

Oh, and anyone else think Ben and his buddies might be descendants of the Black Rock ship (or whatever that was called)?


----------



## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Or how about this theory: it isn't a Groundhog day type of thing, but rather a time loop. The "others" are descendant of the Losties. Ben is probably the descendant of Kate and Sawyer: that's why he's making sure Kate ends up with Sawyer, not Jack. Mr. Friendly is Hurley's descendant, and the blonde is Claire and Charlie's daugther. The others think they are the "good guys" because they are doing what is necessary to make their own existance possible.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> Or how about this theory: it isn't a Groundhog day type of thing, but rather a time loop. The "others" are descendant of the Losties. Ben is probably the descendant of Kate and Sawyer: that's why he's making sure Kate ends up with Sawyer, not Jack. Mr. Friendly is Hurley's descendant, and the blonde is Claire and Charlie's daugther. The others think they are the "good guys" because they are doing what is necessary to make their own existance possible.


I think my brain just imploded.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> I just noticed: there aren't any more sudden rainshowers like in season 1.
> 
> Oh, and anyone else think Ben and his buddies might be descendants of the Black Rock ship (or whatever that was called)?


Black Rock descendants seems plausible.
And, just as the sudden island rainshowers haven't appeared yet this season, neither has the black smoke monster or the whispers. But it's still very early in the season ...

I was distracted by the second tuft of polar bear fur sitting gently upon a leaf, when it would make more sense for a tuft of fur to be caught on a twig.

And how would a skeleton be wearing a pristine Dharma t-shirt in a bear's den without that shirt being torn to shreds, unless the person starved to death and decomposed without being eaten by the bear? And if that's the case, where are his pants and shoes?


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Good God, no time loops please.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Oh, and Ethan seemed to be a doctor. He could be Jack's descendant.

Another question: will we see the tailie who was captured (disappeared) just before Shannon was shot?


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

stalemate said:


> I think my brain just imploded.


But is it imploded like a building or like a nuclear device?


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

eddyj said:


> But is it imploded like a building or like a nuclear device?


Don't forget a cannonball into a pool!


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

Out of everything discussed here, I would have to say the one thing that jumped out at me the most was the flagrant disregard of paper usage by Locke (already mentioned, I know).


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## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> Ben is probably the descendant of Kate and Sawyer: that's why he's making sure Kate ends up with Sawyer, not Jack.


Ben isn't good looking enough to be of Kate and Sawyer's child 

On that theory, wouldn't Ben wanted to cause the plane crash or do some to ensure it happened?

OTOH, Ben seemed pretty sure of what to do when the plane did crash.

-murray


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

Philosofy said:


> I just noticed: there aren't any more sudden rainshowers like in season 1.
> 
> Oh, and anyone else think Ben and his buddies might be descendants of the Black Rock ship (or whatever that was called)?


I think it rained when Sun was "attacked" last season. Also one the journey to find Benry's hot air ballon there was a freak rain shower.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

It's raining here right now


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

jenhudson said:


> Out of everything discussed here, I would have to say the one thing that jumped out at me the most was the flagrant disregard of paper usage by Locke (already mentioned, I know).


Wasn't there a lot of paper in the Pearl Hatch?


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

MacThor said:


> Wasn't there a lot of paper in the Pearl Hatch?


Was the Pearl hatch the one with the monitoring equipment? If so, I remember the computer printouts...but did they have spiral books? I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

But still, my point stands that it was the one thing I thought of!


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Did Stephen Colbert appear in Locke's visions?


Yes, that was when he put the bears "on notice"! And I give you a tip of the hat for mentioning it!


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Let the freaking paper thing go!


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

jenhudson said:


> Was the Pearl hatch the one with the monitoring equipment? If so, I remember the computer printouts...but did they have spiral books? I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
> 
> But still, my point stands that it was the one thing I thought of!


And what if the paper is a descendant of paper that was on the Black Rock??


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jenhudson said:


> Was the Pearl hatch the one with the monitoring equipment? If so, I remember the computer printouts...but did they have spiral books? I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
> 
> But still, my point stands that it was the one thing I thought of!


The pearl hatch had stacks and stacks and stacks of composition books. It's what the hatch occupants were supposed to use to log the activities they were observing in other hatches.


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## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Mighty hot.


It is impossible for her to look any other way.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

darthrsg said:


> It is impossible for her to look any other way.


I'll bet she doesn't waste paper, either.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

tivoboyjr said:


> I'll bet she doesn't waste paper, either.


nope, she just wastes daddies.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> The pearl hatch had stacks and stacks and stacks of composition books. It's what the hatch occupants were supposed to use to log the activities they were observing in other hatches.


Do the Losties know about the pile of tubes that the composition books were sent through the tube system in? Heck, they could us them for reading material, toilet paper, or in the campfire.


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Eight47 said:


> I read an article last year about Lost and the book mentioned was _The Third Policeman_ by Flann O'Brien.
> 
> I have it but haven't gotten around to reading it.


I read it back then and it didn't shed any light on LOST for me. I marked a couple of pages with similarities to or possible implications for LOST, but they weren't related enough to even bother posting here.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

markz said:


> Do the Losties know about the pile of tubes that the composition books were sent through the tube system in?


Hurley knows about the pile of tubes and Locke and Ecko know about the tube system. Of course, it will never be discussed.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

gchance said:


> Locke's speech indicated otherwise. Hurley told everyone about it offscreen. This is why Locke said they would go to get them after Eko was recovered. He knows what the others said, but doesn't care. If Hurley hadn't told him, he'd have no idea what happened to them.


As already mentioned by MacThor, Hurley clearly did NOT tell anyone at the camp about the others. That's why the new girl gets mad at Hurley and asks him how long it was going to be until he said something.

Yes, he told Charlie and Locke, but no one at the camp. So imagine how long it will take for him to mention the tubes!


----------



## Bananfish (May 16, 2002)

DLiquid said:


> I read it back then and it didn't shed any light on LOST for me. I marked a couple of pages with similarities to or possible implications for LOST, but they weren't related enough to even bother posting here.


I think you have to acknowledge the possibility that the creators are just messing with our heads with every word that drops from their lips about the show.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Bananfish said:


> I think you have to acknowledge the possibility that the creators are just messing with our heads with every word that drops from their lips about the show.


Heathen! Infidel! Unbeliever!

It's Purgatory for you, pal!


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

No way a government agent would waste six (6) weeks embedded in a commune, even if he did suspect a bomb making operation. (not to mention that there would be no real reason to have a greenhouse for that - it was pretty obvious to me that there was weed in there). Six weeks for a pot bust? And why would the setup hinge on Locke picking up a hitchhiker AND inviting him to live on the commune?


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

It still seems that the people on the beach are acting strangely, like we said at the end of last year. You have an "earthquake" and you know there are people and supplies and stuff in an underground hatch, and you don't go and check on it? Somebody said go to the kitchen and get bandages. What kitchen? No one seemed upset at the loss of all the food, the washing maching, the showers... Why wait for someone to come and tell you what happened? It seemed like no one went to look.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> As already mentioned by MacThor, Hurley clearly did NOT tell anyone at the camp about the others. That's why the new girl gets mad at Hurley and asks him how long it was going to be until he said something.
> 
> Yes, he told Charlie and Locke, but no one at the camp. So imagine how long it will take for him to mention the tubes!


I thought it was very clear that Hurley DID tell the people on the beach about J, K & S and that they were chastising him for not telling them sooner. There was no reason to show us the scene with him telling them, as we already know the information he's telling them, and since we don't know any of them yet, seeing their reactions would be useless.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Another question: will we see the tailie who was captured (disappeared) just before Shannon was shot?


Maybe in season 8.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

A big giant "MEH" ep for me. With Heroes completely whoopin' this show's butt in storytelling, I'm quickly losing interest in this show. 

This episode, in particular, brought nothing to the table. ooohhh they brought back the polar bears!! They solved that "mystery" with Sawyer's cage. What purpose did it serve here? 

The flashback was pointless. Nice tension buildup but no payoff. I could think of a dozen different ways they could've handled the situation better than shooting the cop. That was weak.

Locke's vision was cool. I like how it summarized where all the major characters were at right now. Loved the way it was shot, too.

And how did Locke and Eko (and presumedly Desmond) survive the implosion basically without a scratch? I don't usually nitpick but this bothered me from the first scene. We still don't know what happened and how they survived. I would've been happy to have the other losties rescue them from the rubble. Instead the writers took the easy way out.

I think this episode could've been held back until January. Let's focus on the big 3 and solve those issues before throwing more questions in the mix.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Supfreak26 said:


> A big giant "MEH" ep for me. With Heroes completely whoopin' this show's butt in storytelling, I'm quickly losing interest in this show..


Heroes rocks, but Heroes (Season 5) or whatever might get stale too.

Lost Season 1 was pretty amazing.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> Somebody said go to the kitchen and get bandages. What kitchen?


I think the kitchen is the hut near the beach where they keep all the Dharma supplies.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> And how did Locke and Eko (and presumedly Desmond) survive the implosion basically without a scratch? I don't usually nitpick but this bothered me from the first scene. We still don't know what happened and how they survived. I would've been happy to have the other losties rescue them from the rubble. Instead the writers took the easy way out.


Well, all three _lost_ something in the implosion. Locke lost his voice, Desmond lost his clothes, and Eko lost consciousness. 

I think they focused on the role differences in S3. Locke, as shown by the photo montage earlier in the thread, is now Jack. Not just leading, he even saves Eko from death. But just as Boone told him, he can't save everyone.

Desmond is now Locke. He knows a secret about himself and the island, and is kind of standoffish.

Eko might just be Eko, but we don't know enough yet. In this episode, he just played one of the wounded - like Boone, perhaps.


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Why didn't Hurley mention Walt/Michael, and why did no one ask? Kate, Jack, Sawyer *and* Michael went with Hurley to "rescue" Walt. Hurley comes back, finally mentions that KJ&S are prisoners, and no one says, "But what about Michael?"

Did I miss something?


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> A big giant "MEH" ep for me. With Heroes completely whoopin' this show's butt in storytelling, I'm quickly losing interest in this show.
> 
> This episode, in particular, brought nothing to the table. ooohhh they brought back the polar bears!! They solved that "mystery" with Sawyer's cage. What purpose did it serve here?
> 
> ...


How can you complain about nothing much happening on Lost and then trumpet Heroes? Nothing at all is happening on that show.


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Figaro said:


> How can you complain about nothing much happening on Lost and then trumpet Heroes? Nothing at all is happening on that show.


You're kidding, right?

Heroes is already doing a better job of introducing mysteries while actually solving a few here and there than Lost has done in it's entire run.

Suspense for the sake of suspense is really getting old here.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Why didn't Hurley mention Walt/Michael, and why did no one ask? Kate, Jack, Sawyer *and* Michael went with Hurley to "rescue" Walt. Hurley comes back, finally mentions that KJ&S are prisoners, and no one says, "But what about Michael?"
> 
> Did I miss something?


How much time was there to show any of that in this episode? I'm sure it will be dealt with later, since he was a big character.

However...


cherry ghost said:


> Hurley knows about the pile of tubes and Locke and Ecko know about the tube system. Of course, it will never be discussed.


...I think that's correct - they'll probably never say a word about that.  Apparently nobody on the show says anything to anyone else.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Back on the first page, I said that I didn't like this episode at all. After watching it all again, I take that back. I thought it was actually pretty decent. Maybe I just wasn't in the mood for it at the time, or I was expecting the episode to be about something else.

Now that I watch it again, realizing that it's all about Locke regaining his spirit and confidence, and reclaiming his status as a leader of the tribe, I kinda like the episode.


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> I thought it was very clear that Hurley DID tell the people on the beach about J, K & S and that they were chastising him for not telling them sooner. There was no reason to show us the scene with him telling them, as we already know the information he's telling them, and since we don't know any of them yet, seeing their reactions would be useless.


No, Hurley definitely did NOT tell anyone on the beach. When Locke and Charlie dragged Eko into camp, some girl (not sure who it was) ran up and said "we need Jack". Hurley then said Jack wasn't coming back because 'they' have him. The girl and Claire both looked at Hurley with a surprised look. Claire said "WHAT? What are you talking about?", and the girl said "when were you panning on telling us?". Then some guy (don't know his name) said "What do you mean 'they'? Who are 'they'?" Locke explained 'they' are the others, and then that guy asked "how? what happened?".

Seemed VERY clear the people on the beach knew nothing.


----------



## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Supfreak26 said:


> You're kidding, right?
> 
> Heroes is already doing a better job of introducing mysteries while actually solving a few here and there than Lost has done in it's entire run.
> 
> Suspense for the sake of suspense is really getting old here.


Not kidding at all. Lost entertains me, while Heroes is nothing but a snore fest. But let's not get too far off topic now. It's irrelevant anyway since BSG is back an neither show can hold a candle to that


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Figaro said:


> Not kidding at all. Lost entertains me, while Heroes is nothing but a snore fest. But let's not get too far off topic now. It's irrelevant anyway since BSG is back an neither show can hold a candle to that


Ah well. Too each his/her own. 

I just reread my last post and I sounded a bit harsh. Didn't mean to come across that way. I'm a big Lost fan but it's just frustrating me lately. I guess that came out in my post there. 

I haven't really gotten into this season of BSG but I'll agree with you on the last couple of seasons. Good stuff.


----------



## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I think Locke's baldness had progressed further in this flashback than it had in the flashbacks with Helen and his father. I think they showed us his progressing hairline (progressing backwards) to show us that. So (as if we didn't already know), that flashback took place in between the Helen stuff and Locke's paralysis.

Desmond can't be entirely fake. He has a backstory that involves Libby and Penny (she of the mysterious phone call) and Jack.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

LordKronos said:


> ...
> 
> Seemed VERY clear the people on the beach knew nothing.


That's because they haven't had anything to do with the losties we have come to know and love until this episode. The have kept to themselves for the last 2 seasons and just now came over to this camp. Of course they didn't know what happened!


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Nobody is saying Desmond is entirely fake. We are saying that _since the fail-safe_ nobody has acknowledged him other than Hurley.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

MacThor said:


> Nobody is saying Desmond is entirely fake. We are saying that _since the fail-safe_ nobody has acknowledged him other than Hurley.


But Locke also saw him right at the beginning of the episode and tried calling out to him when he realized that his voice was gone after the blast -- just like Des' undies. 


Delta13 said:


> Well, all three _lost_ something in the implosion. Locke lost his voice, Desmond lost his clothes, and Eko lost consciousness.


Oops! I smeeked. D'Oh!


aindik said:


> I think Locke's baldness had progressed further in this flashback than it had in the flashbacks with Helen and his father. I think they showed us his progressing hairline (progressing backwards) to show us that.


ROFL! I never would have picked up on Locke's regressing hairline as an intentional clue provided by the writers. LOL!!


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

KRS said:


> No way a government agent would waste six (6) weeks embedded in a commune, even if he did suspect a bomb making operation. (not to mention that there would be no real reason to have a greenhouse for that - it was pretty obvious to me that there was weed in there). Six weeks for a pot bust? And why would the setup hinge on Locke picking up a hitchhiker AND inviting him to live on the commune?


That greenhouse looked pretty small for a grow operation, at least by Humboldt County standards.  And they're usually out in the open, if tucked away in the far corners of the forest... So, it wouldn't have been a stretch for a cop to assume there was something else going on there.

BTW, I've been re-watching seasons 1&2 over the last couple of weeks. Seeing some of the stuff that Locke has pulled in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if we find out he was another one of the insane asylum alumni. His behavior has been downright bizarre on mo re than one occasion...


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

And if Desmond is not really there, then that means that Hurley's tie-dyed shirt is down on the beach, throwing rocks into the ocean. Empty.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Delta13 said:


> And if Desmond is not really there, then that means that Hurley's tie-dyed shirt is down on the beach, throwing rocks into the ocean. Empty.


Nah. His tiedye shirt is somewhere in the jungle with Dave's slipper.


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## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Whew! Ok, just read the entire thread in one sitting. What I'm surprised no one has mentioned on here yet is that this episode can be used as an explanation on how a wheelchair-bound Locke knew all the hunting and gathering skills that he's been using on the island for the past 70 days. 

This was one of the things that's been nagging me since Day One since he went off hunting boars. Now I'm satisfied this is where he learned his skills. Additionally, this episode obviously takes place after the whole thing with Katey Sagal's character since he thanks the commune for making him less angry about his life.


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## AJRitz (Mar 25, 2002)

Um - we already knew that Locke learned hunting skills from his father during the period in which his dad was charming him out of his kidney.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

AJRitz said:


> Um - we already knew that Locke learned hunting skills from his father during the period in which his dad was charming him out of his kidney.


And probably learned a lot of his survival stuff from his planning for his Outback experience (even though it never happened).


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

tewcewl said:


> Whew! Ok, just read the entire thread in one sitting. What I'm surprised no one has mentioned on here yet is that this episode can be used as an explanation on how a wheelchair-bound Locke knew all the hunting and gathering skills that he's been using on the island for the past 70 days.
> 
> This was one of the things that's been nagging me since Day One since he went off hunting boars. Now I'm satisfied this is where he learned his skills. Additionally, this episode obviously takes place after the whole thing with Katey Sagal's character since he thanks the commune for making him less angry about his life.


WHOA, WHOA, wait a minute!

You mean there are aspects of peoples' lives that we just don't know about? You don't say?!?!

If you were told everything at the outset, the story wouldn't be nearly as intriguing.

Greg


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gchance said:


> WHOA, WHOA, wait a minute!
> 
> You mean there are aspects of peoples' lives that we just don't know about? You don't say?!?!
> 
> ...


What drives me nuts is the people on the Heroes threads who say "THIS is the way it should be done, not like on Lost," as if there's something wrong with different shows doing different things...


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What drives me nuts is the people on the Heroes threads who say "THIS is the way it should be done, not like on Lost," as if there's something wrong with different shows doing different things...


Hey keep that Heroes stuff in the Heroes thread. I don't want to fall asleep in here.


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## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What drives me nuts is the people on the Heroes threads who say "THIS is the way it should be done, not like on Lost," as if there's something wrong with different shows doing different things...


Not to drag this thread down but I'm one of "those people" that regularly say this but there's a reason for it.

Lost is very unique in how it builds mystery and suspense. I think it's safe to say that we'd never seen anything like this on TV before. However, it seems that many are getting tired of how Lost tends to introduce more mysteries than they solve.

So far, Heroes has done a great job of introducing new mysteries and suspense while solving some in the process.

I like both shows but Lost is starting to become tedious. It's getting to the point where I don't care to find all the little details or even try to solve the majority of mysteries because I know the writers will rarely solve them anyways. So what's the point?

I'm still watching but it's fallen to 4th in my SP list behind Heroes, BSG, and The Office.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

Supfreak26 said:


> Not to drag this thread down but I'm one of "those people" that regularly say this but there's a reason for it.
> 
> Lost is very unique in how it builds mystery and suspense. I think it's safe to say that we'd never seen anything like this on TV before.


Not true. The mysteries and characters in The Pretender were handled in nearly the exact same way, only on a smaller scale.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> Not true. The mysteries and characters in The Pretender were handled in nearly the exact same way, only on a smaller scale.


Flashbacks to NBC's Saturday Night Thrillogy: Dark Skies, The Pretender, and The Profiler. Very cool!

I never thought about it, but you're right: The Pretender had many aspects of Lost as part of its core story-telling technique...


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