# Lifetime Sub and Freeview BBC4 Channels



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Thought I would mix two issues I have with my Tivo into one thread 

I've really not had any problems with my Tivo in the 4 years I've had it, but there are a couple of things that irk me so this is the place to air!

First of all, is it worth at this stage, buying the Lifetime sub? I've been paying the monthly for over 4 years, but is there some other alternative for getting program data? I'm a little loathe to shell out £200 to pay for the Lifetime sub when there's so much else I could spend it on  And if the box goes **** up (god forbid!) I've got a big silver paperweight!

Secondly I can't seem to add the Freeview Channel BBC4 to my Tivo. The channel is actually numbered 808 on my Goodmans FV box, but Tivo only lists up to 700. Is there a way to fix this?

Sorry if these questions have been covered in previous threads, haven't got time to trawl. 

Cheers :up:


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> First of all, is it worth at this stage, buying the Lifetime sub? I've been paying the monthly for over 4 years, but is there some other alternative for getting program data? I'm a little loathe to shell out £200 to pay for the Lifetime sub when there's so much else I could spend it on  And if the box goes **** up (god forbid!) I've got a big silver paperweight!
> 
> Secondly I can't seem to add the Freeview Channel BBC4 to my Tivo. The channel is actually numbered 808 on my Goodmans FV box, but Tivo only lists up to 700. Is there a way to fix this?


As long as you think Tivo will provide their EPG service for another 20 months in the UK then you win. I would personally reckon they will provide the service for another 20 months as they still have a lot of income from monthly subscribers like you and also any fresh £200 payments coming in will make their financial position on running the EPG for another year look better.

Of course you can buy very upgraded Tivo S1 Thomson boxes with a Lifetime Sub, a Cachechard (for PC and internet connection to your Tivo) and memory and TivoWeb already installed secondhand on Ebay for only just over £300. And you could probably get near £100 fo your unsubbed box on Ebay. So you could argue that buying one of those very upgraded boxes being sold by someone rashly moving to Sky HD and selling your own Tivo box on Ebay is a better bet than Lifetime subbing your current box. Also if Tivo are anywhere near pulling the plug on their UK EPG service I honestly believe they will stop selling new Lifetime subs during the last year or so.

As to your BBC Four problem that comes from the fact that your Goodmans box has allocated BBC Four to the wrong channel number due to some kind of glitch in its tuning process. If you do a couple more forced full rescans on the Goodmans box it should allocate BBC Four to the right channel number and change BBC Parliament on channel 81 over to full screen instead of quarter screen as well. It might even add Film Four or Five Life and Five US to your box if you don't already have those. Possibly you might need to do a full factory reset on the Goodmans box if that option exists and the simple full rescans don't work out.

Let us know how you get on.


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Thanks for the comprehensive reply!

I will try the rescan on the Goodmans box 

I think eBay is a good solution - then I am getting an upgraded box included in the price of subscriptions. 

Is there anything I should be wary of or avoid in that capacity?


----------



## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Make sure you call TiVo CS before bidding to check that the box really does have a lifetime sub - the seller will need to tell you the TiVo Service Number first. 

Also, beware of machines with blown modems and/or other motherboard problems. Dodgy drives or PSUs are easy to fix, but a motherboard problem will require a hardware repair that could cost more than the TiVo


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Thanks for all your help. Guess eBay it is then


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> I think eBay is a good solution - then I am getting an upgraded box included in the price of subscriptions.
> 
> Is there anything I should be wary of or avoid in that capacity?


You really want a box with a Cachecard, 512 MB of SDRAM installed on the Cachecard and an upgraded hard drive of at least 160GB and ideally at least 250Gb and TivoWeb installed. Buying all of those components and fitting them to your own Tivo would cost at least £200 on top of which you would then have to pay £200 for a Lifetime sub. So if for £300 you can get a box with all this and a Lifetime sub and sell your own Tivo for around £100 you are quids in.

However I would beware to only buy from an Ebay seller who is clearly the real long term owner of the box and writes a very descriptive ad about the upgrades done and makes clear the box is still in fully running order. You could ask them a few questions to confirm this. I would avoid buying a box where the ad description is very short and shows little personal knowledge of the benefits of a Tivo. These boxes are being sold on by Ebay Traders who have picked them up from car boot sales or wherever else and the condition and working status of the boxes cannot be trusted.

Also make sure that the status of the box in System Information is 5 Lifetime and not something else as there are a few press and shop demonstrator boxes that had some other sub status and that were getting free guide data but where Tivo recently closed this down as they had never actually paid for a Lifetime Sub. And/or these non paid for subs to press people etc are not transferable so if you ever let on to Tivo customer services the box had changed ownership they would stop the guide data immediately. By contrast paid for Lifetime subscriptions with Status 5 Lifetime in System Information are fully and legitimately transferable if the box is sold on.


----------



## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> These boxes are being sold on by Ebay Traders who have picked them up from car boot sales


Why do I never find anything like a Tivo at car boot sales. They always seem to be selling stuff that is only fit for the tip. The only decent find I have ever made was a Freeview box for £5 about 2 years ago!!

Have seen several people selling analogue satellite systems with the bits in the box that their SKY digital system arrived in. Obviously hoping to catch out those who dont understand the difference


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

katman said:


> Why do I never find anything like a Tivo at car boot sales.(


Car boot sales was a figure of speech on my part referring to Tivos being sold cheap to inexpert buyers.

I was I suppose really thinking of things like House Contents Sales when people are going abroad or the house owner dies or even company message boards and other places outside the main market where Tivo owners have sold off their units to trader types at unrealistically low prices. In either case the Tivos hard drives might long ago have failed and the seller might also be unaware of what a Lifetime Sub really is.


----------



## mikefgrant (Jan 3, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> You really want a box with a Cachecard, 512 MB of SDRAM installed on the Cachecard and an upgraded hard drive of at least 160GB and ideally at least 250Gb and TivoWeb installed. Buying all of those components and fitting them to your own Tivo would cost at least £200 on top of which you would then have to pay £200 for a Lifetime sub. So if for £300 you can get a box with all this and a Lifetime sub and sell your own Tivo for around £100 you are quids in.
> 
> However I would beware to only buy from an Ebay seller who is clearly the real long term owner of the box and writes a very descriptive ad about the upgrades done and makes clear the box is still in fully running order. You could ask them a few questions to confirm this. I would avoid buying a box where the ad description is very short and shows little personal knowledge of the benefits of a Tivo. These boxes are being sold on by Ebay Traders who have picked them up from car boot sales or wherever else and the condition and working status of the boxes cannot be trusted.
> 
> Also make sure that the status of the box in System Information is 5 Lifetime and not something else as there are a few press and shop demonstrator boxes that had some other sub status and that were getting free guide data but where Tivo recently closed this down as they had never actually paid for a Lifetime Sub. And/or these non paid for subs to press people etc are not transferable so if you ever let on to Tivo customer services the box had changed ownership they would stop the guide data immediately. By contrast paid for Lifetime subscriptions with Status 5 Lifetime in System Information are fully and legitimately transferable if the box is sold on.


I have had my TIVO since January 2002, but was thinking of moving on to something with an HDMI output. I bought my TIVO as an ex-demo from Powerhouse with the subscription active, and its current status is 11 - Evaluation.

I was planning to sell it on Ebay with lifetime subscription, which I understood it had when I purchased it. I have certainly not had to pay anything after the initial purchase, and I am continuing to receive guide data. I am concerned now from reading the above that the subscription may stop when a new user starts using it!

I understood that the subscription went with the unit, and that CS did not need to be involved. Would a new user who simply changed the preference to match their postcode/service package find any change to the subscription status?


----------



## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

There won't be any problems with changing postcodes as you, yourself, could move house at any time - just don't describe it on eBay as "Lifetime" as, technically, it's not. 

If the new owner calls TiVo CS then he/she will have to pay for a new sub.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikefgrant said:


> I understood that the subscription went with the unit, and that CS did not need to be involved. Would a new user who simply changed the preference to match their postcode/service package find any change to the subscription status?


If the new owner ever calls Tivo and admits they are not you Tivo will cancel the subscription.

If you sell it you will have to be honest that the sub is Evaluation and will only continue to work if the owner does not contact Tivo customer service or if they do contact them claim that they are you.

Inevitably this means you will get less for the box than if you had a true Lifetime sub. where this subterfuge would not be necessary.

Really you would be better off keeping the box given the problems in a legitimate sale including the sub and the fact that Tivo is still a far superior system for recording programs even if it does not have HDMI output.


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> As to your BBC Four problem that comes from the fact that your Goodmans box has allocated BBC Four to the wrong channel number due to some kind of glitch in its tuning process. If you do a couple more forced full rescans on the Goodmans box it should allocate BBC Four to the right channel number and change BBC Parliament on channel 81 over to full screen instead of quarter screen as well. It might even add Film Four or Five Life and Five US to your box if you don't already have those. Possibly you might need to do a full factory reset on the Goodmans box if that option exists and the simple full rescans don't work out.
> 
> Let us know how you get on.


Thanks Pete - the Freeview rescan worked out fine :up:

Missed out on a couple of eBay auctions though, but will keep at it


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> Missed out on a couple of eBay auctions though, but will keep at it


A lot of them go up to silly money at the last moment. People get carried away with winning the auction at all costs.

Try to look out for auctions that close during working hours or late at night to avoid the most fevered bidding. With so many of those "upgrading" (if you can call it that) to Sky HD selling their Tivo boxes on Ebay at the moment there ought to be some bargains around.


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Yeah thanks - I just missed out yesterday on a 250gb model with lifetime subscription for £245. I wanted to bid £250 but the page crashed while I was at work at the last minute :down: 

It was the perfect time for a bargain though: 10am on a Monday morning!


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> Yeah thanks - I just missed out yesterday on a 250gb model with lifetime subscription for £245. I wanted to bid £250 but the page crashed while I was at work at the last minute :down:
> 
> It was the perfect time for a bargain though: 10am on a Monday morning!


I imagine this didn't also have a Cachecard and 512MB of RAM. These ultra high spec boxes tend to be the best value of all as predictably those who don't really know Tivo that well think all they need is a Tivo and a Lifetime Sub and realise that the Lifetime Sub will cost £200. So unmodified boxes with a Lifetime Sub go for stupid money to the uninformed.

Because those new to Tivo don't appreciate the extra cost and benefits of a Cachecard and 512MB of RAM (at least another £105 to buy the parts) and/or even a hard drive upgrade (£50 and upwards DIY or more from the professional suppliers) these high spec machines often seem to go for quite a lot less than the cost of constructing them at today's prices compared to just a basic machine with Lifetime Sub.

Viz a viz Ebay auctions its always tricky. I suppose about a minute before the end you need to bid the maximum you are prepared to pay rather than just what appears to be the next £10 increment in the bidding. But winning Ebay auctions is always a hellishly tricky business.

A couple of interesting machines with Lifetime Sub, large hard drive and Cachecards closing on Ebay this coming Saturday/Sunday. Note though that one only has 64MB of RAM on the Cahchecard (not enough) while the other has the full 512MB of RAM. You can buy the 512MB of RAM from Ebuyer for £29.99 + P&P though.


----------



## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

I find HammerSnipe very good for ensuring that you get the item you wanted. Assuming other bidders don't take the price over your max bid.


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Thanks again Pete, have added those to my watchlist. Will post if I've splurged!

_EDIT:_ Is the cachecard a necessity with a 250gb drive installed?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

CoinYounger said:


> I find HammerSnipe very good for ensuring that you get the item you wanted. Assuming other bidders don't take the price over your max bid.


That does sound a handy utility as I'm often not around or forget about placing bids on Ebay at the actual time the auction closes.

Leaving a high bid directly on Ebay is no good as due to the way the Bid incrementing system works another bidder can always force you up to your maximum without being at any risk of winning the item themselves.


----------



## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Just to clarify - the service is free, but you have to jump a couple of hoops to get the freebie.

First, register. You have to go through the 'confirmation email to activate' hoop.
Log into site using your email address (after confirming registration)
Left hand side of the screen - select 'Auctions' under Member menu.
Follow nose.
Works brilliantly for me. Just bought a Christmas present using it.


----------



## thechachman (Nov 28, 2004)

I'll leave you all to ponder the wisdom in giving your eBay id and password to 'another site' ...


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

thechachman said:


> I'll leave you all to ponder the wisdom in giving your eBay id and password to 'another site' ...


Is that how it works? 

Of course so long as you don't have a registered credit card on file at Ebay then it ought to be relatively safe.


----------



## thechachman (Nov 28, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Is that how it works?


 Yep their mechanisms bid on your behalf seconds before the ending time.


Pete77 said:


> Of course so long as you don't have a registered credit card on file at Ebay then it ought to be relatively safe.


 Well, eBay bids are binding, if it were to bid/buy you a car for £20k you might have issues with the seller ...

Back on topic ...



beebul said:


> Is the cachecard a necessity with a 250gb drive installed?


 I would say so, but it is dependent somewhat upon usage.

Are you planning on having many recordings kept on the unit longterm, or only really planning on having tons of recorded shows on there while on hols or similar (and thus only occasionally using the full storage abilities of a large HD tivo) ?

Also, if you're planning on mode0 720x576 resolution and high bitrate recordings, a 250gb drive shouldnt get end up getting too cluttered up, but in general a cachecard w/512mb lightens the overall load on the box and perks it up a bit irregardless.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> Thanks again Pete, have added those to my watchlist. Will post if I've splurged!


This one has just appeared with a 9 days listing and a Buy It Now price but the price is say £40 more than one ideally might want to pay.

MOD EDIT: Ebay links not allowed

With this Tivo and the other two on offer with a large hard drive, lifetime sub and a Cachecard but without a Buy It Now option it might be worth sending the ebay sellers a private message to see whether they would close the auction out now early for cash. Try say £300 perhaps.

Looking at the economics I think your own basic Tivo would probably sell for £100 but I haven't been tracking those on Ebay right until the auction closes so would need someone else to confirm this. But for you to buy a Lifetime Sub and add a Cachecard and 512MB RAM and a 250GB hard drive to your Tivo preconfigured by one of the professional third party firms would cost around £400. So if you could buy one of these high specced machines with Lifetime Sub for £300 and sell your own non subbed Tivo for £100 you would obviously be quids in.

I would say that for a Tivo with 160Gb drive or more the Cachecard is fairly essential if you plan to have 150 recordings or more in Now Playing and speaking as one who has 500+ recordings I can assure you that really 150 isn't a lot if you hang on to all those interesting programs you hope to find time to watch one day. Imagine never seeing the words again "Insufficent Disk Space" or whatever it was. I wouldn't know as I haven't seen those horrible words for nearly 18 months now. Also a Cachecard lets you access the Tivo on your PC with TivoWeb and do stuff like block deleting a whole lot of recordings at one go with a few simple key strokes or undelete recordings you have accidentally recorded. Or a fantasic third party module called Highlights that lets you directly set recordings from this week's Highlighted and recommended programs in the Radio Times. You can even access your Tivo remotely over the internet from work or when you are away from holiday to set or delete recordings.


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Hi Pete - thanks _again_ for all the information.

I can't seem to see a Buy It Now price on that auction you linked to... its disappeared as there has been a bid.

What was the BIN just out of interest?


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> What was the BIN just out of interest?


It was £340. Strange its vanished as a tiny bid like that being made shouldn't have got it to disappear.

The seller must have withdrawn the facility perhaps as he would have been allowed to do that.


----------



## PPJ (Jun 26, 2002)

beebul said:


> What was the BIN just out of interest?


It was £340, if I remember correctly.

Wonder if it's the same one the seller bought at MOD EDIT: Ebay links not allowed! a short while ago.


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

My eBay access is blocked from work, but is that £150 for the full system with Lifetime sub? If so he got a good deal there!!!


----------



## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> Wonder if it's the same one the seller bought at £150 a short while ago.


Unless he has upgraded the other one that he bought for £92. MOD EDIT: Ebay links not allowed!

Perhaps an Ebay profiteer


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> My eBay access is blocked from work, but is that £150 for the full system with Lifetime sub? If so he got a good deal there!!!


He managed to buy it for £150 as a Buy It Now which explains why it didn't reach its full market value as it would have done had the seller run a normal 9 day auction. Clearly the seller didn't realise the value of what they were selling when they set the Buy It Now price.

It only goes to show there are Tivo bargains to be had on Ebay if you keep your eyes peeled.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> Unless he has upgraded the other one that he bought for £92.


Quite possibly as the Cachecard and hard drive would have only cost him about £120 or so or less if he got the hard drive second hand. Is that the one that only has a 64MB RAM stick in it.


----------



## mikefgrant (Jan 3, 2002)

What price do you estimate my 40G+80G Tivo with a demo-type "lifetime" subscription could fetch on Ebay? I have not quite convinced myself to sell, but a good price could go a long way towards a Panasonic DVD recorder with HDD, Freeview, HDMI output etc - would substantially reduce the complexity of my AV stack!


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikefgrant said:


> What price do you estimate my 40G+80G Tivo with a demo-type "lifetime" subscription could fetch on Ebay? I have not quite convinced myself to sell, but a good price could go a long way towards a Panasonic DVD recorder with HDD, Freeview, HDMI output etc - would substantially reduce the complexity of my AV stack!


But what are you going to record your tv programs on? A basic Freeview HDD recorder with no season pass or wishlist facility is no way to be able to painlessly record and re record a hundred or more hours of programs.

If you only have a "demo" (Status 11) subscription and no Cachecard then I doubt you would get more than £150 at best even with the 40Gb and 80Gb Hard Drive. If you are honest about the dodgy Lifetime status on Ebay then you might put people off altogether and if you just sell it as unsubbed then it would probably only fetch just over £100. If you claim it has a full Lifetime Sub then you are just asking for trouble. My Tivo was an ex shop demonstrator at Currys but it didn't have Status 11. I even waited to see if the EPG data would run out and sure enough it did.

Surely it would be much better if you spent the £103 or so to get a Cachecard and 512MB of RAM and then installed that along with TivoWeb. Then later as HDD prices fall further you could replace the hard drives with say 2 x 400Gb Samsung drives and have access to 270 hours of Mode 0 top quality recordings.

Unless you also now have Sky HD and haven't mentioned that then I really can't think why this Panasonic DVD thingamie with Freeview is a replacement for your Tivo. A Tivo with TivoWeb and internet access would really seem like a whole new machine.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> My eBay access is blocked from work, but is that £150 for the full system with Lifetime sub? If so he got a good deal there!!!


This one on Ebay looks particularly worth tracking with Hammer Snipe or even manually over the next few days:-

MOD EDIT: Ebay links not allowed

Lifetime sub, cachecard 512Mb Ram, enlarged hard drive and even a proper RJ45 network cable socket for the Cachecard on the back of the machine. So it was clearly a highly professional upgrade.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Just spotted that this unsubbed non upgraded but still working Tivo just sold for only £57.

MOD EDIT: Bay links not allowed

Perhaps not entirely surprising given that many of us bought them for between £99 and £129 as clearance items in mid/late 2002. I think this one would have gone for an especially low price as there was very little effort made with the presentation of the Ebay ad or extolling the Tivo's merits.

However on the basis that selling an unsubbed unmodified Tivo might only gain you £60-£90 and that buying a subbed Tivo with a Cachecard and decent hard drive upgrade will probably cost about £340 (unless you are lucky) that's a net cost of around £270 or so to upgrade compared to I suppose a £200 lifetime sub, a £130 Cachecard and RAM upgrade (if you buy from one of the professional suppliers rather than sourcing it the cheapest way) and a hard drive upgrade probably costing around £100 from one of the professional hard drive upgrade suppliers.

So on my maths a cost of about £270 to upgrade and gain the Lifetime sub via an Ebay purchase compared to about £430 keeping your current Tivo and buying all the bits and bobs and the Lifetime Sub for it. On the other hand if you buy from TivoHeaven or Tivoland you obviously have more comeback that it will all work properly.

Its a shame really that you didn't buy the Lifetime Sub at the outset as that's obviously what turns a reasonably modest upgrade cost into a big upgrade cost.


----------



## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Ebay links are not allowed - no direct links to auctions or sales.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Ebay links are not allowed - no direct links to auctions or sales.


Sorry. Didn't realise. I suppose the reason is to try to stop people advertising products all over the forum.

In this case we were only really trying to have a discussion though about typical values that Tivos of various kinds seem to currently be changing hands for. In future I will only refer in loose terms to the kind of prices for which Tivos of various specs seem to be changing hands and will avoid any links to specific auction items or sites.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> Thanks for all your help. Guess eBay it is then


Did you have any luck with either of the auctions for the two Tivos with Cachecards 512MB of RAM, large hard drives and TivoWeb that closed this evening? They both went for very fair prices considering that to have such machines put together for you with Lifetime Subs by TivoHeaven or TivoLand would have cost at least £200 more than the units with these facilities sold for on Ebay. In fact they sold for only £50 or £60 more than many basic non upgraded units with just a Lifetime sub have sold for so a total bargain really.

Having said that I still can't bring myself to lash out around £300 on one as an xmas present for my dear old mum as although she loves her favourite television shows there's still a chance she might not be able to be trained to work a Tivo even though despite her 72 years she does still use a computer and email and the internet with few problems. Also if Tivo ever pulled the EPG service in the next year or two it would be much harder to keep a Tivo for a non hacker minded person running.


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul, beebul, wherefore are though beebul?


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Sorry Pete - I bid on a couple of auctions but was just pipped at the post  

Not too bothered at the moment, I'm still paying the £10 a month sub, but an outlay of £320-£350 is gonna hurt the old wallet at this time of year. Still trawling eBay every day to see if I can pick up a bargain, hopefully the other bidders won't be so flush after Xmas


----------



## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

beebul said:


> ot too bothered at the moment, I'm still paying the £10 a month sub, but an outlay of £320-£350 is gonna hurt the old wallet at this time of year. Still trawling eBay every day to see if I can pick up a bargain, hopefully the other bidders won't be so flush after Xmas


With time secondhand Tivos can only get cheaper in theory although I think there is a glut of Sky HD early adopters with high spec Tivos trying to sell at the moment. There may be a further rush of sales after xmas though as some people get Sky HD and HDTVs as xmas presents and/or to keep the family busy over xmas.

But given the very small differential between the price of a non upgraded subbed Tivo of around £200 and a heavily upgraded subbed Tivo of around £300 (the second one on Saturday sold for £280 although poatage was an expensive £28) I know which one is the better buy. And don't forget you can then get about £70 for selling your old Tivo so the net cost is only about £230 - little more than you would pay to sub your current non upgraded box.

If you were capable of doing your own Cachecard, Cachecard memory and HD upgrade using the instruction at www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo then you could probably do a full upgrade for about £170 with a reasonable hard drive size but then you still have a Lifetime sub on top to pay - so £370 extra cost. If you go to TivoHeaven or TivoLand for the Cachecard and HD it'll cost another £90 or so and of course these upgraded machines have the install done for you. So I reckon that by buying one of these upgraded machines and selling your current one you save about £150 to £230 depending on whether you could upgrade your own Tivo yourself or not. So the best route price wise is definitely buying an upgraded Tivo on Ebay unless you are very attached to your current Tivo in sentimental terms.

For people who already have a subbed Tivo and can do their own upgrade there is probably still a case for upgrading their own box so long as they can do the upgrade themselves.


----------



## beebul (Oct 23, 2002)

Yes I still think buying an upgraded machine with a lifetime sub is the way to go 

I'll probably still bid on the next decent auction that I see...


----------

