# it's deleting all my old shows!



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

this is nuts...

i thought i was imagining things but now i'm 100% sure this machine is deleting things when it shouldnt.... i dont normally use the HD menu but i did and see it's at 63% and in the past few days no way has it been full...yet stuff i know was on from winter/spring has deleted

has nothing to do with eps as i always have it set to save all of them...i guess i need to go thru all the SP and mark KUID to be safe from now on and do that to all the shows on there now...wont be fun

ill keep HD menu on for the foreseeable future but it's extraordinarily slow..taking up to 30 seconds to go from one selection to another


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

What does your history say? KUID can cause other problems that causes future episodes to fail. Better to understand why before radically changing things.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

history only goes back to 11/4..no way to tell why any show recorded before that was deleted

i dont see how KUID would hurt anything if i have it set to save all eps? what did you mean


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

Check folders the old program may be hidden in one by a new recording.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

newsposter said:


> i dont see how KUID would hurt anything if i have it set to save all eps? what did you mean


If you are clearly having space issues, using KUID can cause your Tivo to stop recording new shows.
It's an either/or situation. Either you allow your Tivo to delete older shows or the Tivo stops recording new ones.

I don't trust the disk usage meter. It was only added to alleviate all the users that complained about the Tivo not having one in the first place.

Look at your My Shows list. Do you have suggestions enabled? Is your recently deleted folder empty?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

on the old HDTivo i put suggestions on as a way to tell space..but not here..maybe i should do that because it will be more reliable..esp in the SD menu

deleted folder has the shows that have been watched the past few days and none of my missing ones

last night i KUID a bunch of stuff so i guess ill see what happens and try to look at history at least once a week...

i'm assuming even if a show says wont record 2 weeks from now due to space but then i watch a ton of stuff all along that by that date it WILL record as long as space is available?


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

newsposter said:


> i'm assuming even if a show says wont record 2 weeks from now due to space but then i watch a ton of stuff all along that by that date it WILL record as long as space is available?


Yes, although the recalculation of what gets recorded isn't immediate so don't cut it too close.

I use KUID since if I record it, I want to watch it and will arrange my time to make sure I do.

But there was something else going on with you. If you were only at 63% and never close to full, there is some other reason that you think recordings have disappeared.


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## TZR916 (Mar 18, 2012)

On my Elite I am seeing some movies that I recorded a while ago that I haven't gotten around to watching, one by one the blue dot icon has been turning yellow and when I investigate it says "this show will be deleted within 24 hours" (or something similar). My Elite has never shown more than 40% space used.

How do I stop Tivo from deleting these shows that are marked yellow dot for deletion?
How do I keep Tivo from marking any/all my recorded shows for deletion? (I know how to set this for season passes, but not for a single recording like a movie)
If there is no way to set this for single event recordings, how long does Tivo keep it for?


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

TZR916 said:


> when I investigate it says "this show will be deleted within 24 hours" (or something similar). My Elite has never shown more than 40% space used.
> 
> How do I stop Tivo from deleting these shows that are marked yellow dot for deletion?


They aren't going to get deleted in 24 hours if you have 60% free space.

The message should be worded "could be deleted if space is needed".


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There are only two things that can automatically delete a show... Lack of space or the Keep At Most setting. If space is low then the oldest shows will be deleted to make room for new ones. Keep At Most is a limit on a specific series. If you hit that limit then the oldest episode of that series will be deleted to make room for the new one.

Other things to consider... Shows can be deleted via the iOS/Android apps. Shows can be deleted by other TiVos in the house. If you have multiple TiVos in the same room and have your remote or the remote code on the TiVo set incorrectly then you might be controlling both at the same time and accidentally deleting stuff from the one you're not watching without realizing it. (did this once)

Dan


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## TZR916 (Mar 18, 2012)

beejay said:


> They aren't going to get deleted in 24 hours if you have 60% free space.
> 
> The message should be worded "could be deleted if space is needed".


I just got one right now. It's a movie that was recorded on 7/9/2012. It has a yellow dot and says "WILL be deleted within 3 days".

I have 35% used space.


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## Tivogre (Jul 12, 2002)

As others have said, it won't be deleted unless the space is needed for a new recording. 

I have things with yellow dots on my Elite that have been there for MONTHS!


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## TZR916 (Mar 18, 2012)

I'll take your word for it, and check back in 3 days. But why is it turning yellow if I set the recording with option "until space needed" and my hard drive never gets beyond 40% used?


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

The dot is turning yellow because the recording has reached its "expiration date". All shows automatically "expire" after 48 hours.
That does not mean the recordings will be automatically deleted at that time, just that they become eligible for deletion.
If you have plenty of space, you need not worry as long as you keep up with your shows. If you record more than you can watch, you will eventually run into problems. You might consider upgrading your hard drive if you think this will be a problem.

Also if you are concerned, you can manually change the "Keep Until" date for any recording. That basically resets the expiration date.
If you are really concerned you can set a recording to "Keep Until I Delete", but that can lead to a whole 'nuther set of problems, so use it sparingly.


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## TZR916 (Mar 18, 2012)

> The dot is turning yellow because the recording has reached its "expiration date". All shows automatically "expire" after 48 hours....


48 hours? This movie has been blue dot for over three months. It just turned yellow today?


> ...Also if you are concerned, you can manually change the "Keep Until" date for any recording. That basically resets the expiration date...


Exactly how do I reset it after it's turned yellow?


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

steve614 said:


> The dot is turning yellow because the recording has reached its "expiration date". All shows automatically "expire" after 48 hours.
> That does not mean the recordings will be automatically deleted at that time, just that they become eligible for deletion.


This appears to be a difference between the SD and HD interface.
In the SD interface it works like you said, 48 hours after recording you've gone to yellow dot with the exclamation point.

But the HD interface leaves stuff with the blue dot for ages. I just checked my Elite and despite having stuff recorded months ago (and some transfers from a previous TiVo that are far older than that) it's all blue dots. Well a couple of greens from recordings I marked KUID; but not a yellow in sight.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Makes sense, I don't use the HD interface.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

steve614 said:


> Makes sense, I don't use the HD interface.


who could on a regular basis...unless you want naps between button presses it's useless...they really need to fix it


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## Leon WIlkinson (Feb 13, 2000)

newsposter said:


> who could on a regular basis...unless you want naps between button presses it's useless...they really need to fix it


I don't see the long delays like a yr ago, it does seem to go slower(with in My Shows) as the Hard drive fills up.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

newsposter said:


> who could on a regular basis...unless you want naps between button presses it's useless...they really need to fix it


C'mon it's not that bad, and I use it on an Elite (supposedly the slowest).

Yes it can be slow at times, but the functionality is so much better now than on SD it was worth it to switch back to HD.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Faster is better, but it now times out at the same speed as my HD unit that can only run the SD menus.

I hoping our benchmarking member is finished with his results soon. They take a long time, but are always a great read.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

slowbiscuit said:


> C'mon it's not that bad, and I use it on an Elite (supposedly the slowest).
> 
> Yes it can be slow at times, but the functionality is so much better now than on SD it was worth it to switch back to HD.


yeh that is nuts. My wife is very picky about those things and has never once said anything about the speed of the HDUI


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> C'mon it's not that bad, and I use it on an Elite (supposedly the slowest).
> 
> Yes it can be slow at times, but the functionality is so much better now than on SD it was worth it to switch back to HD.


maybe my machine is defective but for the 2 days i had HD turned on id press the button then wonder what happened...press again and confirmed the light flashed..nothing happened

SD is instant 100% of the time and ill take that over whatever additional functionality i'm not using/or missing from the HD

except for the space meter i need nothign on that HD screen


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Are you running the latest update? The newest software release adds a lot of cool functionality that finally got me to switch to the HDUI. It's a little slow at times, but not as bad as it use to be and the added functionality make it worth it. Never had an issue with pushing a button and it not responding at all.

Dan


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## bcamp (Dec 26, 2004)

newsposter said:


> this is nuts...
> 
> i thought i was imagining things but now i'm 100% sure this machine is deleting things when it shouldnt.


Absolutely correct. One of two Premier's has, in the last 24 hours, deleted _everything_ that wasn't KUID. Before the deletions I had 54% space. Now I have 17% space AND new shows are being deleted within minutes after they have finished recording -- with only 17% of space consumed. WTH is going on? I finally found history in this new update and it shows these shows were deleted for space, even the ones that had just recorded. Deleted programs is empty. Have rebooted a number of times and it still continues with this bizarre behavior.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

You must have season passes set with kuid with a bunch of upcoming episodes.


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## MeInDallas (Jul 31, 2011)

I just had this happen to me as well. I had recorded an episode of something last night, and deleted it after, and I had 45 deleted shows in the folder, and now I went back to find it again to look at something, and everything was gone out of the folder. Only 3 shows set to record tomorrow on this one.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Yes you need to be careful about setting Season Passes to KUID. The scheduler will preemptively delete non KUID recording in My Shows to make room for up coming KUID shows. There is another thread here discussing the dangers of setting SPs to KUID, you should read it and reconsider your options. 

Dan


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Yes you need to be careful about setting Season Passes to KUID. The scheduler will preemptively delete non KUID recording in My Shows to make room for up coming KUID shows. There is another thread here discussing the dangers of setting SPs to KUID, you should read it and reconsider your options.
> 
> Dan


That's just not true. Non-KUID don't get deleted until the space is needed. It doesn't make any difference if there are future KUIDs that will require the space.

Any exception to this is an error in the TiVo software, not the normal operation.


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## bcamp (Dec 26, 2004)

innocentfreak said:


> You must have season passes set with kuid with a bunch of upcoming episodes.


Nope. Not true. I never set up season passes as KUID, nor do I have any now.

Furthermore, as a test, I just scheduled a one-off half-hour recording as KUID. I watched the show record. Less than five minutes after the recording stopped it was deleted. Reason: space. (with 15% used.) So you can say what you want about the only things that causes a deletion, and I will tell you that you are wrong. There is something else going on.


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

bcamp said:


> as a test, I just scheduled a one-off half-hour recording as KUID. I watched the show record. Less than five minutes after the recording stopped it was deleted. Reason: space. (with 15% used.) So you can say what you want about the only things that causes a deletion, and I will tell you that you are wrong. There is something else going on.


The "something" that is going on is clearly not normal. What does the system information show about total and available space?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

No way should it delete anything until it actually needs the room.

One minute before it records the new thing, the old thing should still be there.

UNLESS

the cable company has set the whatchamacallit (CCI bit?) to expire the shows after a certain time.

When you give a cable company the ability to screw you over, sooner or later they're going to use it whether it makes sense to do so or not.

It's like the scorpion riding on the frog's back across the river and stinging it halfway there, it's just their nature.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

beejay said:


> The "something" that is going on is clearly not normal. What does the system information show about total and available space?


Also what does KMTTG report? I have had the FSI get stuck before and report the wrong usage.


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## DTG (Jan 17, 2001)

I had the unexpected deletion problem about six months ago. My TiVo recorded a three-hour Formula One race, and then immediately deleted it. The usage meter was showing about 50%, which is what I would've expected it to be.

On investigation, I found that the recently deleted folder had about eight shows in it, including my Formula One race. After watching the race, I decided to empty the recently deleted folder. Turns out that the oldest show in the folder *COULD NOT BE DELETED*. After spending a little more time on this problem, I reported it to TiVo, and six months later, I'm still having the same problem occasionally, and have an unresolved issue with level two tech support.

I have found that the only way to delete an *UN-DELETABLE * show from the recently deleted folder is to reboot the TiVo. A soft reboot does fine. Reading this thread, it appears to me that other people are having the same problem. If so, please report it to TiVo tech support. It's obviously very hard to replicate, and even harder to debug.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

beejay said:


> That's just not true. Non-KUID don't get deleted until the space is needed. It doesn't make any difference if there are future KUIDs that will require the space.
> 
> Any exception to this is an error in the TiVo software, not the normal operation.


You're right I was misremembering. However I believe that it does delete as many shows as it needs to as soon as the recording starts. So if you schedule a 4 hour football game it will delete 4 hours of shows to make room as soon as the game starts recording.

Dan


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## bcamp (Dec 26, 2004)

beejay said:


> The "something" that is going on is clearly not normal. What does the system information show about total and available space?


It says I have 40 HD hours free (out of a possible 48)

Have called support and am told I will have to reformat the HD (Clear and reset everything). He is pretty sure that will be a cure. If not, then I'll have to do an exchange. I have to move all my season passes to the other Premier and then move them back when it's done. Time to do the reformat is about 3 hours, plus the time it takes to do guided setup.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

bcamp said:


> It says I have 40 HD hours free (out of a possible 48)
> 
> Have called support and am told I will have to reformat the HD (Clear and reset everything). He is pretty sure that will be a cure. If not, then I'll have to do an exchange. I have to move all my season passes to the other Premier and then move them back when it's done. Time to do the reformat is about 3 hours, plus the time it takes to do guided setup.


On S3s and lower, there's an option that's one step less drastic than clear and delete everything; it's what many recommend for S03 errors and it leaves your recordings intact.

Does the S4 have something similar you could try first?


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## bcamp (Dec 26, 2004)

unitron said:


> On S3s and lower, there's an option that's one step less drastic than clear and delete everything; it's what many recommend for S03 errors and it leaves your recordings intact.
> 
> Does the S4 have something similar you could try first?


Too late. But even if it were so, my tech said that what was needed was a reformat of the HD, and only clear and delete would accomplish that.

So far so good. Now I'm moving my passes back from the other Premier.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

bcamp said:


> Too late. But even if it were so, my tech said that what was needed was a reformat of the HD, and only clear and delete would accomplish that.
> 
> So far so good. Now I'm moving my passes back from the other Premier.


"The only way for your TiVo to fix what's wrong with it is to erase everything you've recorded."

"Then you'll be refunding my subscription paymentst for the months during which those shows were recorded, since it's your fault I'm losing them and therefore not getting the functionality for which I paid?"

Crickets, I'm guessing.


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## drummer12 (Aug 1, 2008)

Coincidentally, I'm having a similiar issue as well. Last night it deleted a bunch of shows that were blue. Space was at 35%, and when I looked at the history there was no record of them being deleted by me or the TiVo. They were not in the recently deleted items either. Very weird and frustrating.

It also deleted a couple items b/c of space reasons, which makes no sense considering there's 65% available (sys info confirmed 235 hours available to record).


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

At what point do all these problems add up to TiVo, Inc., not providing the service for which one is paying them, and one should therefore be due a refund from them?


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## msiemsen (Apr 23, 2010)

I'm having a similar issue. Shows are being deleted and showing up in History as "deleted - space needed". I have no shows in My Shows and Recently Deleted, the free space indicator is now 0%. I've done both Clear Thumb Ratings and Clear Program Information. I've rebooted multiple times. I have 22 Season Passes. All are set to "new and repeats", "keep 10 episodes", "keep until space needed".

I noticed this starting December 19th or 20th. I've seen shows being recorded. I assume they are recorded and then deleted. I watched SNL yesterday while it was recording and Jimmy Fallon on Friday and deleted them manually. I watched Meet the Press and Chris Matthews shows this morning. They stayed around long enough to watch and delete manually. They show up in History as "deleted - user deleted". Everything else that should have been sitting in My Shows is listed as "deleted - space needed".

Only thing I did today is delete HDUI videos from Download Manager. Don't need those.

I'm interested in bcamps result of Clear and Delete Everything. I guess I should start thinking about backing up my Season Passes somehow.

Tivo Premiere - OTA - 20.2.2-01-2-746 software


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

Hey, who stole HomeUser's post?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

unitron said:


> Hey, who stole HomeUser's post?


Wow, you are quick. The message was posted for less then 30 seconds before I deleted it knowing that you were about to replay that I had no clue what I was talking about and to re-read msiemsen post because I had missed "I have no shows in My Shows".

IAC a "Kickstart 57" could help alto at this point the CADE is probably best.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

HomeUser said:


> Wow, you are quick. The message was posted for less then 30 seconds before I deleted it knowing that you were about to replay that I had no clue what I was talking about and to re-read msiemsen post because I had missed "I have no shows in My Shows".
> 
> IAC a "Kickstart 57" could help alto at this point the CADE is probably best.


I never saw the post, I saw the notification email I got that it had been posted, which included the content of the post, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have replied in the manner in which you think I would have.

You seemed to be confirming that this wasn't an isolated one user situation.

On the general topic of the TiVo thinking it's out of space, could it be connected with Garbage Collection not occuring?


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## HomeUser (Jan 12, 2003)

unitron said:


> I never saw the post, I saw the notification email I got that it had been posted, which included the content of the post, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have replied in the manner in which you think I would have.
> 
> You seemed to be confirming that this wasn't an isolated one user situation.
> 
> On the general topic of the TiVo thinking it's out of space, could it be connected with Garbage Collection not occuring?


I forgot about the subscriptions e-mails. Ugh then you see all my ugly changes also.

Fortunately I have not yet experienced the deleting recordings too early problem. I have run into recordings that won't permanently delete from the deleted folder requiring a reboot to "unlock" them. I have experenced it enough that I modified TNPL Now Playing (more PHP code) - Part II  to track the unused space vs suggestions so I can monitor when unused space does not decrease and suggestions are being deleted.

I think the GC is forced to run on a reboot so if the space is not getting freed on a reboot there must be some kind of data corruption.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

HomeUser said:


> I forgot about the subscriptions e-mails. Ugh then you see all my ugly changes also.
> 
> Fortunately I have not yet experienced the deleting recordings too early problem. I have run into recordings that won't permanently delete from the deleted folder requiring a reboot to "unlock" them. I have experenced it enough that I modified TNPL Now Playing (more PHP code) - Part II  to track the unused space vs suggestions so I can monitor when unused space does not decrease and suggestions are being deleted.
> 
> I think the GC is forced to run on a reboot so if the space is not getting freed on a reboot there must be some kind of data corruption.


We are by no means in my area of expertise here, but it seems part of the TiVo is getting up to date info about what's been deleted (or your NPL would be full of phantoms), and part of it is still dealing with outdated info, so since GC seems to be an ongoing problem in regards to a different problem with something else (guide data) not getting updated, I thought maybe it could be the culprit here as well.


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## bcamp (Dec 26, 2004)

msiemsen said:


> ...I'm interested in bcamps result of Clear and Delete Everything. I guess I should start thinking about backing up my Season Passes somehow.


Ok, getting back. The process completed and, as a test, I loaded up on shows. So far, so good. At this point it looks as if the problem is solved. :up:

I'll know for sure when new programming on my SP list begins later this week.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

now that i UN KUID all my weekly shows, i have an observation: for the past week i ran under 70% and now and down under 60 today. however, the recently deleted shows shows virtually nothing in it while suggestions has over 15 shows in it ( i had suggestions on for space monitoring in SD)

so i assume it will delete your recyling bin before deleting suggestions? which makes sense, i just never knew it. 

and i still have some of my higher numbered SP KUID because i just havent gotten around to changing them and i still get the warning messages about things deleting early when i'm using pytivo to upload shows. of course everything i upload is for immediate viewing so it's really not a warning i worry about. 

the new software has made the HD screen pretty usable at last and the new todo listing is superfantastic! integrating history in the todo really makes my weekly sunday housekeeping unnecessary anymore


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## eriley99 (Oct 4, 2011)

I'm having the same problem with shows being randomly deleted. I know at least 6 mos ago we were running close to 100% and had a couple pages of shows in our to do list. Then in late Nov/early Dec I noticed a bunch of stuff had been deleted when we were only at about 30%. I called and was told it was because it was making room for items on our to do list. This makes no sense to me- if a show is imminent and needs space then go ahead and make room, but why would Tivo make room for shows scheduled 2 weeks out?

Last night we were 39% full (14 hrs of HD and 7 hrs of SD) and about 17.5 hours of HD programming on our to-do list. A one hour show in disneyhd taped for my son last night and at some point btwn 9PM and 9AM it was deleted. The history shows it was deleted to make space. There was nothing else set to record for the next 24 hours and the current to-do list wouldn't bring us over 100% so I don't understand why shows are being deleted.

Is this part of a recent service upgrade? We have been able to get close to 100% capacity in the past. What is the point of having the percent indicator if things start being deleted at 39%?


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

You are correct- it deletes due to future recording requirements once they hit the guide data. (note- it records, there is no tape)

The space indicator is at best an approximate. It sounds like you could really use a hard drive upgrade. Cheap and easy- no more headaches.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

jrtroo said:


> You are correct- it deletes due to future recording requirements once they hit the guide data. (note- it records, there is no tape)
> 
> The space indicator is at best an approximate. It sounds like you could really use a hard drive upgrade. Cheap and easy- no more headaches.


are you saying if i have a small % of my drive used and then when the 15th day in the guide becomes the 14th day - and lets say i have 50 shows set to record that day - that because those 50 shows 2 weeks out will need space, that the space will be deleted 'today' instead of in 2 weeks?


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## DTG (Jan 17, 2001)

eriley99 said:


> Last night we were 39% full (14 hrs of HD and 7 hrs of SD) and about 17.5 hours of HD programming on our to-do list. A one hour show in disneyhd taped for my son last night and at some point btwn 9PM and 9AM it was deleted. The history shows it was deleted to make space. There was nothing else set to record for the next 24 hours and the current to-do list wouldn't bring us over 100% so I don't understand why shows are being deleted.


Please have a look in your recently deleted folder. If you have any shows in there, older than the show that was recorded and deleted, try to delete them. If you find they cannot be deleted, please see my post earlier in this thread and let us know. It sounds like the problem I reported!


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## eriley99 (Oct 4, 2011)

DTG said:


> Please have a look in your recently deleted folder. If you have any shows in there, older than the show that was recorded and deleted, try to delete them. If you find they cannot be deleted, please see my post earlier in this thread and let us know. It sounds like the problem I reported!


Nope- the only thing in the recently deleted folder is something that was watched and deleted this afternoon.

I don't understand why a few months ago we could be near 100% with a bunch of stuff on the to do list and now in the 30-40%, it's deleting stuff.

Can someone explain what is involved with a hard drive upgrade? Would I need to replace the current HD or would buying an expander be sufficient? Although I don't understand why this is necessary as the premiere touts "up to 75 hours of HD programming" when I only have about 15 recorded.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

What is in the to do list? Is there a marathon of a show(s) that could fill up your drive.

See the upgrade center forums. If you can install a drive in a pc, this is pretty simple. An expander can work too, but I prefer to have a single drive solution and to put the installed drive on the shelf. Just in case.


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

jrtroo said:


> You are correct- it deletes due to future recording requirements once they hit the guide data.


That is not true. I have (during the Olympics) frequently had items in the guide data that it said it could not record (based on current disk use) because of my many KUIDs.

At the same time, I had non-KUIDs that were not deleted.

It doesn't delete until it needs the space.


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## bobster954 (Aug 15, 2011)

I find deletions happen on mine for two reasons, aside from running out of space

1) I use the clear button to try to get out of where I am at different points in the menu and it deletes/trashes the selected item or the one I am trying to modify.

2) the show itself, due to cable company stupidity or licensing agreements is to be erased automatically within a certain time frame.. This happens more than you know, and often with live events.


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## bcamp (Dec 26, 2004)

bcamp said:


> Ok, getting back. The process completed and, as a test, I loaded up on shows. So far, so good. At this point it looks as if the problem is solved. :up:
> 
> I'll know for sure when new programming on my SP list begins later this week.


Ok. I'm back. Now that my Premiere has programming to record, after the holiday dearth, the deletion problem has been completely resolved. To refresh, TiVo support felt that the problem would likely require a reformatting of the drive, which can only be accomplished with a _Clear and Delete Everything_. Here is what I did:

Moved my SP's to my other Premiere using the TiVo web app,
Made note of my wishlist,
Performed Clear and Delete Everything,
Guided setup,
Moved my SP's back from the 2nd Premiere,
Manually re-entered my wishlist
The TiVo has now recorded to 50+ percent full with no spurious deletions.

This should be my last post here, assuming the problem doesn't come back.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bobster954 said:


> I find deletions happen on mine for two reasons, aside from running out of space
> 
> 1) I use the clear button to try to get out of where I am at different points in the menu and it deletes/trashes the selected item or the one I am trying to modify.
> .


The clear button is meant to do a quick delete and not a way to exit from a menu. You want to use the left arrow key to go back.

Scott


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## Ready4TiVo (Sep 16, 2004)

My new Premiere XL, purchased during the recent sale, just last night deleted three one-hour shows - specifically, they were in the "My Shows" folder during the last couple of days; this morning they were not but were instead in the Recently Deleted folder. The storage meter shows 6%. TiVo Suggestions is off. Season Passes are set only for new shows. No one else in the household did the deletes. 

Any ideas?


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

Ready4TiVo said:


> Season Passes are set only for new shows. No one else in the household did the deletes.
> 
> Any ideas?


What does the history show as the reason for deletion?


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## Ready4TiVo (Sep 16, 2004)

beejay said:


> What does the history show as the reason for deletion?


"Someone in the household deleted it."

The box is a week old. The only person in the house is my better half. Neither she nor I deleted the shows. I was able to recover them out of the deleted folder, but still.


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

Ready4TiVo said:


> "Someone in the household deleted it."
> 
> The box is a week old. The only person in the house is my better half. Neither she nor I deleted the shows. I was able to recover them out of the deleted folder, but still.


Does it give date and time of the deletion? I'd say the most likely explanation is that someone in your household deleted it. Possibly not knowing they did it. Do you have another TiVo that could have a remote that is controlling both TiVos?


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## Ready4TiVo (Sep 16, 2004)

beejay said:


> Does it give date and time of the deletion? I'd say the most likely explanation is that someone in your household deleted it. Possibly not knowing they did it. Do you have another TiVo that could have a remote that is controlling both TiVos?


Interesting idea - possible but not likely it was a slip of the iPad app. But I don't see that happening with three shows not next to each other in the My Shows list. Maybe one show, but not three.

Anyway, I'll keep an eye over the next few days, see if it happens "randomly" again.

Thanks for the responses.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Did someone sit on the remote? Did the dog play with the remote?

Do you have another Tivo remote for the "other" Tivo in another room that's on the same Tivo remote channel?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Ready4TiVo said:


> Interesting idea - possible but not likely it was a slip of the iPad app. But I don't see that happening with three shows not next to each other in the My Shows list. Maybe one show, but not three.
> 
> Anyway, I'll keep an eye over the next few days, see if it happens "randomly" again.
> 
> Thanks for the responses.


I will be interested in your findings. I have been looking at this issue for a few weeks since even though I normally record from a season pass, I see a delete date even though I have selected keep until space needed. There is also some confusion on the color icons. Everyone agrees solid green is KUID, but blue and yellow don't make sense to me. Earlier there was speculation that the TiVo is trying too much to estimate when a deletion will be needed based on the To Do List and Season Pass information. I find that may be a factor, since I have a long list of Season Pass shows. I'm beginning to think that this could be a problem (bug) that needs further testing.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> I will be interested in your findings. I have been looking at this issue for a few weeks since even though I normally record from a season pass, I see a delete date even though I have selected keep until space needed. There is also some confusion on the color icons. Everyone agrees solid green is KUID, but blue and yellow don't make sense to me.


Simple explanation:
Blue dot = Recent recording
Yellow dot = Expiring soon
Yellow dot w/ exclamation point = Expired

TiVo Margret's explanation:



TiVoMargret said:


> Green dot = "Keep Until I Delete"
> Blue dot = normal recording, not expected to be deleted within the next three days
> Yellow dot = we believe it will be deleted within the next three days
> Yellow dot with ! = we believe it will be deleted within the next 24 hours
> ...


The delete date is mostly irrevelant, and can be ignored as long as you don't record more than you can watch.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

steve614 said:


> Simple explanation:
> Blue dot = Recent recording
> Yellow dot = Expiring soon
> Yellow dot w/ exclamation point = Expired
> ...


Thanks. I offload anything I want to save anyhow. I appreciate the feedback.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

steve614 said:


> Simple explanation:
> Blue dot = Recent recording
> Yellow dot = Expiring soon
> Yellow dot w/ exclamation point = Expired


Note for clarification - this is the dot logic for the HD interface.

The SD interface still seems to use the old logic, which is quite different (in practice at least). The SD interface treats the show as expired at no more than 48 hours after recording; and less if low disk space forces sooner. (so yellow dot at 24 hours; yellow dot w/ exclamation point at 48 hours)

Oh and the SD interface doesn't use the blue dot; instead recent recordings don't have any dot. (Unless they're set to KUID, in which case like the HD interface they've got a green dot)


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

S2s and S3s, when copying a show from a PC running Desktop or from another TiVo, have a blue dot, or a dot with a smaller blue dot inside, and I think it turns to the usual yellow once all of it's copied.


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## eriley99 (Oct 4, 2011)

We had 3 shows recorded and then deleted last night for space issues. Two were season pass recordings marked keep until I delete. 

We were at about 50% capacity on our premiere and nothing new added to the to do list. 

So far tivo has been unable to solve this- one of their suggestions was to toggle groups on and off in our HD menu and change the sort order from alpha to date recorded. No idea how that would have helped but we did it (and clearly, after last night it didn't work).


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Jonathan_S said:


> Note for clarification - this is the dot logic for the HD interface.
> 
> The SD interface still seems to use the old logic, which is quite different (in practice at least). The SD interface treats the show as expired at no more than 48 hours after recording; and less if low disk space forces sooner. (so yellow dot at 24 hours; yellow dot w/ exclamation point at 48 hours)
> 
> Oh and the SD interface doesn't use the blue dot; instead recent recordings don't have any dot. (Unless they're set to KUID, in which case like the HD interface they've got a green dot)


I am new to the TiVo, hence my posts about the colors. If there were release notes about how the HDUI changed/added features (like the blue dot) those could be printed and saved with the book. Just a thought for future releases.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

Shortly after purchasing my Premier XL in December I "Thought" a show disappeared. It was Homeland on Showtime and I knew I saw it in my Now playing list. 

I checked the recently deleted folder and it wasn't in there. I only had it for a few days and figured someone must have deleted it then deleted it out of my recently deleted folder. I quizzed my kids and wife and they swore they didn't do it.

Odd behavior for any machine. So I recorded it again and let the whole disappearing show thing go. I figured that the update must have deleted my show and all was good in the world. 

Then I read this post. I waited and watched. Then another one happened. I noticed that SciFi Continuum was missing from last Monday. I researched the recently deleted and couldn't find it. I checked the "To Do List" and saw that everyone after the one that should have recorded popped up that it wouldn't record because it was recorded within the last 28 days.

So, the TiVo thinks it recorded it. I'm pretty sure it was in my "Now Playing List" but can't swear to it. No one in my household is secretly deleting my stuff. I'm figuring it must be the TiVo.

I really like my 4 tuner TiVo and the amount of storage I have. Currently my storage is at 18% and I know that it didn't delete the shows because of a limitation on storage. So, now what?


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

rdrrepair said:


> Currently my storage is at 18% and I know that it didn't delete the shows because of a limitation on storage. So, now what?


I'd look in the history to see what reason is listed for the deletion and then post that information here.


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## rdrrepair (Nov 24, 2006)

It never showed that it was recorded. It never showed it was deleted. It just shows that the ones that could have recorded afterwards wouldn't because it "thinks" it was already recorded.

Both shows that went missing exhibited the same behavior. 

On the off chance that it wound up in another folder... I turned off folders and then put the list in alphabetical order to try and find the show.

I searched in the HD folder. I searched everywhere I could think of. 

I've been TiVo'ing since purchasing a new SVR2000 from Sears back in December of 2000. I have 9 TiVo's active now. 2 of them are S3 648 units. I'm pretty familiar with the interfaces and this is outside of anything I've seen before.


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## lotusbobnow (Apr 4, 2013)

I am experiencing this exact thing. We had the Tivo Premier for a couple years and just in Dec 12 it began deleteing shows. I got the unit replaced. Worked ok for a week or two and is doing it again!
I have spoken to Tivo support countless times. The best thing they have said is that they will credit me my Tivo monthly charge. They say wait until the next software update. They do not know when it will be coming out. They do not know that the update will absolutely fix the problem.
Box is basically useless now, only for TV buffering.
I spoke to a supervisor yesterday who is checking into letting me be a beta tester on the new software version. How can they know if it is fixed if they do not run the tests on a box that is broken?
I have 5 Tivo units, various ages. The Premier is the only one that has this phenomenon.


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## lotusbobnow (Apr 4, 2013)

Interesting thing on the deleted files. BTW it may record a show and 5 minutes after it is over, delete. Not in the deleted files. There is only 1 show currently recorded. Yet the HD menu history section says the show was deleted for space needed. Huh? Space needed?
Under the SD menu it says that the show expired. Expired? What does that mean? I have had shows on other Tivo units for months and months. There WERE shows prior to Dec 12 on this Premier that stayed for months and months.
But it seems to me that there are not enough people with this problem or they would be more interested in fixing it.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

lotusbobnow said:


> ...But it seems to me that there are not enough people with this problem or they would be more interested in fixing it.


Well, I'd certainly call even one person with it two too many.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lotusbobnow said:


> Box is basically useless now, only for TV buffering.


Umm, how is it *useless*?

It isn't deleting KUID shows, is it?

if so, then that's definitely a *workaround*.


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

lotusbobnow said:


> Box is basically useless now, only for TV buffering.


I believe in other threads people have reported the clear&delete everything got them back to a usable TiVo.

I know it's drastic, but if you have a basically useless TiVo, I'd try it.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

beejay said:


> I believe in other threads people have reported the clear&delete everything got them back to a usable TiVo.
> 
> I know it's drastic, but if you have a basically useless TiVo, I'd try it.


Imagine if you took your VCR in to be fixed and they said "The only way to get it working again is to erase all of the tapes you've made up until now".

Or if getting your CD player fixed meant tossing your entire CD collection on a bonfire.


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## bcamp (Dec 26, 2004)

I have two Premieres and this behavior began with the fall update. I'm one of the ones told by TiVo support to clear and delete everything. This has worked in a limited fashion: while I only had to do this one time with one of the Premieres, the other needs it about every 6-8 weeks. It is a royal PITA but they have offered me no other option but to replace the box. I'm holding out for the spring update, but I'm not happy about it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

You still haven't said why MAKING EVERYTHING KEEP UNTIL I DELETE isn't at least a *partial* workaround.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

unitron said:


> Imagine if you took your VCR in to be fixed and they said "The only way to get it working again is to erase all of the tapes you've made up until now".
> 
> Or if getting your CD player fixed meant tossing your entire CD collection on a bonfire.


Apples and oranges...in neither of your examples is the problem inherent in the actual device.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i dont know if i said this before here but when i switched to everything KUID it really fouled up the machine. i had to turn off the KUID, wasnt worth it


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

newsposter said:


> i dont know if i said this before here but when i switched to everything KUID it really fouled up the machine. i had to turn off the KUID, wasnt worth it


That's interesting. All my SPs are KUID; I have about 30, and I've had no problem at all...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> That's interesting. All my SPs are KUID; I have about 30, and I've had no problem at all...


have you looked at your todo list more than a few days out? i forget exactly what was happening but i think when i went to record things it said it couldnt due to lack of space. of course by then i would have watched stuff but it didnt know that. i 'think' that the todo list didnt go out more than a few days and that freaked me out so i turned off KUID

i know in theory once the space was cleared it should record but if you do anything like add a new SP or manual recording it simply wouldnt let me if i recall correctly


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## shaa (Jan 26, 2011)

I had this happen to me a couple weeks ago 4 shows in one night while I slept. Claimed deleted for space but only at 60%. Also they were not in my deleted folder and it was empty. So somehow everything in there was deleted along with the shows that should easily have fit the space. This is a Tivo error and no I won't be reformatting as that's plain stupid when I pay a subscription they should get off their asses and fix it. I almost always run at 60-70% due to the volume of shows being recorded on my single machine. Thus why I won't reformat it. And for those thinking it, a bigger drive ain't gonna fix this issue since it's not really about space used.

I use KUID now for everything and it has not happened again. I also keep an eye on my deleted folder to see if it gets cleared out again like last time. So far no anomalies other than this one day.


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## drummer12 (Aug 1, 2008)

I'm having this issue also. I wiped the TiVo a couple months ago when I had the issue and it seemed to fix it, but I marked a bunch of stuff as KUID since I was away and wanted to watch upon my return. Sure enough, it deleted a bunch of stuff marked as KUID, and kept on recording. The reason for deleting was "space needed." Sorry TiVo, you can't say keep it until I delete and delete it anyway.

Very frustrating as I have to keep track of all the shows that were deleted and go online to watch them now. TiVo needs to fix basic functionality instead of adding crap like Launchpad.

Oh, and the audio sync bug still hasn't been fixed. This fall update has been nothing but trouble...I wish I could roll it back.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Well, I definitely think you should call Tivo and tell them this. I definitely have seen shows deleted from Recently Deleted when I was in the low ~60% range, and I *think* I have had some of my own shows deleted.. but I have NEVER seen a KUID show be deleted by the Tivo.


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## infoXczar (Apr 18, 2003)

I can confirm that shows I've marked as KUID have definitely been getting automatically deleted from my Premiere XL, when I'm only at 55% capacity. The TiVo tech I chatted with yesterday didn't seem to be surprised by this and has added me to the list of customers to get the patch first when it's ready "this month."


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## tivosupport_taylor (Jun 19, 2012)

Hello TiVo Community,

It appears that some of you are experiencing an issue where shows that seemingly should not be deleted, are inexplicably deleted. Keep in mind that your TiVo will delete things as necessary to make room for upcoming recordings. Recently however, it appears that TiVo Premiere users are reporting instances where recordings are being deleted for no reason. If you are experiencing an issue on any Premiere Series TiVo where recordings that are set to Keep Until I Delete are being deleted prematurely please send me a private message with the following information so that we can track instances of this issue and work to resolve it.

-TiVo Service Number (found on the back of the unit or in SYSTEM INFORMATION):

-The reason RECORDING HISTORY reports for deletion:

-The percentage usage reported by the disk space meter at the top of MY SHOWS:

-The recording was deleted as part of a season pass (Y/N):

If the recording that was deleted was part of a season pass please record the following:

-Keep at most:

-Show Type:

-Keep Until:

Thank you for your assistance,

Taylor


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## infoXczar (Apr 18, 2003)

The fact that TiVo is just now soliciting bug data doesn't fill me with confidence that the problem will be fixed by the end of the month like I was told.  I'll PM data soon, but my post count isn't high enough yet to send one.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

newsposter said:


> have you looked at your todo list more than a few days out? i forget exactly what was happening but i think when i went to record things it said it couldnt due to lack of space. of course by then i would have watched stuff but it didnt know that. i 'think' that the todo list didnt go out more than a few days and that freaked me out so i turned off KUID
> 
> i know in theory once the space was cleared it should record but if you do anything like add a new SP or manual recording it simply wouldnt let me if i recall correctly


I check my TDL every day....no problems.

I am happy to see TiVo finally acknowledging the problem and asking for input...


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## infoXczar (Apr 18, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> I check my TDL every day....no problems.


Same here. I've pared my season passes down to just seven, and only two or three even have any active shows coming up. A show recorded via a season pass on Sunday from 9:30-10:00 was deleted for "space needed" less than 90 minutes later allegedly because space was needed to record another show at 11:38 (?!) PM, yet there was nothing in the To Do List until four days later. And my disk usage was at 55%.

Nasty bug!


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> I check my TDL every day....no problems.
> 
> I am happy to see TiVo finally acknowledging the problem and asking for input...


well ur lucky then. mine didnt go out more than the near future, much less next week. thats when i knew i had a big problem


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

infoXczar said:


> Nasty bug!


Does anyone have any insight as to what might "enable" this bug?

Many (most?) of us do not have this problem. Have those who have this bug done something or used some function the rest of us haven't?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I don't for sure know that I have the bug exactly, but I *do* know that my Recently Deleted items are going away, *sometimes* all of them have gone away. I haven't yet proven that any of my recordings have gone away (at least very recently).. but I have been in the high 60s or low 70s of percent "full", so it shouldn't even be deleting Recently Deleted until it get very very close to 100% full.

I use my Stream to download shows to my iPad every day&#8230; probably not related, but that ALSO sometimes ends up with items stuck in Recently Deleted (until you reboot).


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## BrooklynBlueEyes (Mar 9, 2012)

I've read a couple of posts about using the TiVo iPhone app (which I do regularly), potentially enabling this bug. Mine has gotten so bad that shows are being deleted immediately after they're recorded, whether they're coded KUID or space needed, with it only 62% full. The good news is that this post will get me over 10, so I can send my report to Taylor. I'll let the group know what I hear back.


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## beejay (Feb 3, 2001)

BrooklynBlueEyes said:


> I've read a couple of posts about using the TiVo iPhone app (which I do regularly), potentially enabling this bug.


Is anybody having this problem NOT using the iPhone app?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

BrooklynBlueEyes said:


> I've read a couple of posts about using the TiVo iPhone app (which I do regularly), potentially enabling this bug...


I use the iPhone app a lot, too, and no problems...


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## jenz (Sep 19, 2009)

Having related but worse issue - SP shows are recording but then they disappear and are not in deleted items.

I physically can see the shows being recorded, TV has signal, etc but if I go back to the Tivo [unsure of the minimum time required be it 30min or 2hrs after the recording is finished], the show is gone.


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## infoXczar (Apr 18, 2003)

Here's a new one on me: I actually had a recording disappear WHILE I WAS WATCHING IT (sort of).

I set a two-hour movie to record, then started watching it perhaps about twenty minutes after it had started recording. I had to pause it for a while to take a phone call. When I unpaused, all seemed fine, but when got to about the 90-minute mark, the recording just ended. It was still in Now Playing, but the info said that it was a partial recording. I see no reason why the recording was truncated; Live TV was still tuned to that same channel and nothing else had been recorded.

Meanwhile, literally EVERYTHING I record disappears within hours. Most recently, a movie I recorded from 11:05 PM to 1:05 AM (it's currently 2:45 AM) is already gone. Reason? "The show was deleted because space was needed to record other shows on 4/25 at 2:47 AM." Which is literally right now. Nothing's being recorded on either tuner. And My Shows is reporting usage at 53%.


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## rsvp_nj (Oct 19, 2010)

I've had this same problem for months. I use the iPhone and iPad apps but do not stream content to them. My DVR never gets to 75% full anymore and it deletes like mad. I had an instance where it was recording a suggestion, then stopped and deleted itself midway. (The movie "Airplane!", bummer) I have some season passes set to keep 10 shows that rarely fill beyond 4.

I've called for tech support because I first thought it was incorrectly gauging it's capacity and deleting as it normally would except that I had more content on there than I thought. The Tivo CSR said this is not the case, that it is deleting shows too quickly and that they are aware of it and are working on a fix to the problem but do not have one yet. Great.

So, we have a product that is vastly inferior to what we paid for. In my case, this has been going on since December. I hope they do the right thing when they do resolve this with a rebate or something, and if they can not fix it they need to replace our Premieres. This is unacceptable.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

ALL of you who are having this problem should call Tivo. (I have only seen the &#8220;stuck in Recently Deleted&#8221; problem for sure, and RELATIVELY rarely. I haven&#8217;t seen proof of my shows being deleted, though as I mentioned before, Recently Deleted does seem to empty out way before it needs to.)


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

hmm i thought my problem was gone but then i was thinking some shows appeared missing. now i'm positive this is still happening. an ep of undercover boss that i knew was a repeat but was on the machine was there a few days ago but today it's not there! it was over 2 weeks ago so i cant view history though

now i wonder what other shows i've been missing


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## splintersam (May 1, 2013)

Does anyone know why when season pass is set to record all episodes at KUID it will sometimes not only delete things, but also record new ones saved in the folder without the KUID?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

No.. Call Tivo..


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## RedMan8 (Sep 30, 2005)

TiVo now acknowledges this issue (and you are not alone):

http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=11092401#e11092401


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

premature deletion really bites. now i wonder what was deleted that i dont even remember


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