# Channel repack has begun, and it's not good!



## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm located in Dayton OH and two of our stations just made the switch to their new post "channel repack" frequency. There was almost no warning. So of course TiVo stopped receiving or recording those stations including sub-channels. TiVo's guide data is populating the old frequency channel. A rescan finds the new channel but without guide data. I haven't contacted TiVo yet but surely they knew this was coming? Virtually all of our local stations are moving so this problem is going to repeat itself.

If this is how the repack transition is going to go, all of us OTA TiVo folks are in for a rocky ride!

There are other weird things happening from the repack as well but I'm not going to go into that here.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

TeamPace said:


> I'm located in Dayton OH and two of our stations just made the switch to their new post "channel repack" frequency. There was almost no warning. So of course TiVo stopped receiving or recording those stations including sub-channels. TiVo's guide data is populating the old frequency channel. A rescan finds the new channel but without guide data. I haven't contacted TiVo yet but surely they knew this was coming? Virtually all of our local stations are moving so this problem is going to repeat itself.
> 
> If this is how the repack transition is going to go, all of us OTA TiVo folks are in for a rocky ride!
> 
> There are other weird things happening from the repack as well but I'm not going to go into that here.


since this is happening nationwide, i would hope tivo has a solid and tested plan in place to handle each market as it occurs...btw, are you interested in any north dakota beachfront property?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

This is disappointing to hear, but not really surprising.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

NorthAlabama said:


> since this is happening nationwide, i would hope tivo has a solid and tested plan in place to handle each market as it occurs...btw, are you interested in any north dakota beachfront property?


TiVo's solid and tested plan = waiting for customers in each affected area to file station frequency change reports via their support site


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## haleysj (Jan 10, 2003)

Boo, just ran into this accidentally, was checking signal strength for other reasons and found it odd 26 was black screen.

Had to rescan for 2 and 26. Program data "to be announced" now

Filled out their lineup issue web page, hopefully they are not all on holiday this week.





Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## JOHN R GRILLOT (Jul 3, 2018)

TeamPace said:


> I'm located in Dayton OH and two of our stations just made the switch to their new post "channel repack" frequency. There was almost no warning. So of course TiVo stopped receiving or recording those stations including sub-channels. TiVo's guide data is populating the old frequency channel. A rescan finds the new channel but without guide data. I haven't contacted TiVo yet but surely they knew this was coming? Virtually all of our local stations are moving so this problem is going to repeat itself.
> 
> If this is how the repack transition is going to go, all of us OTA TiVo folks are in for a rocky ride!


There are other weird things happening from the repack as well but I'm not going to go into that here.
I have the same problem here in Dayton. I wish I would have found and joined this forum BEFORE wasting 2 hours with tivo support where they told me my antena probably needs a booster or needs to be adjusted. I thought they were wrong so that's why I joined this forum. I'm glad I found this thread. I guess I should just keep rescanning until it's fixed?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

use this link to report, get a reference number, and call once a day until it's resolved. you can check the status under your account at tivo.com, so when they close it without resolution, you can create another ticket, and start over. if your symptoms persist for longer than one week, see your doctor your next step is to Contact the Executive Relations Team with the ticket number(s):

Report a Lineup Issue


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

JOHN R GRILLOT said:


> I guess I should just keep rescanning until it's fixed?


Usually your TiVo displays a message when your channel lineup changes. I'm not sure if there will be a message in this case.

Calling TiVo support is not healthy.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

NorthAlabama said:


> use this link to report, get a reference number, and call once a day until it's resolved. you can check the status under your account at tivo.com, so when they close it without resolution, you can create another ticket, and start over. if your symptoms persist for longer than one week, see your doctor your next step is to Contact the Executive Relations Team with the ticket number(s):
> 
> Report a Lineup Issue


Thx for this link. Unfortunately it wouldn't let me send the form because I don't have a case number yet. Tried chat support and they have me doing a guided setup which isn't going to fix it unless the guide data has been fixed. This is going to be a nationwide debacle if Rovi hasn't made any plans for dealing with the channel repack. I have a group of about a dozen families that I've helped cut the cord and go with TiVo OTA. So this is affecting all of them as well.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> Usually your TiVo displays a message when your channel lineup changes. I'm not sure if there will be a message in this case.
> 
> Calling TiVo support is not healthy.


I'll try to post an update once this is resolved


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TeamPace said:


> I have a group of about a dozen families that I've helped cut the cord and go with TiVo OTA. So this is affecting all of them as well.


May I suggest changing your phone number and email address and going into hiding until mid-2020?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

I have had two stations so far... one was working after a Repeat Guided Setup (the day it moved) and the other (luckily I don't watch) took several days after I reported it. I called support and they ran it up the chain (after verifying some details). This is one area they should really pay attention to... as the customer is helpless in getting it resolved.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

This will postpone any thoughts I had about switching from cable to OTA for a while. I'm also in the Dayton OH area -- did channel 2 drop 2-3 in their repack?


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

TeamPace said:


> I'm located in Dayton OH and two of our stations just made the switch to their new post "channel repack" frequency. There was almost no warning. So of course TiVo stopped receiving or recording those stations including sub-channels. TiVo's guide data is populating the old frequency channel. A rescan finds the new channel but without guide data. I haven't contacted TiVo yet but surely they knew this was coming? Virtually all of our local stations are moving so this problem is going to repeat itself.
> 
> If this is how the repack transition is going to go, all of us OTA TiVo folks are in for a rocky ride!
> 
> There are other weird things happening from the repack as well but I'm not going to go into that here.


It might not be Tivo's problem. The station is probably not identifying itself properly by its call letters (or whatever it uses to identify a signal), and the Tivo doesn't know what it's receiving.

I'd check with a TV tuner to see how each station in your market is actually identifying itself, to see if its using call letters in the stream and providing the proper virtual channel numbers so the Tivo can figure out what it is tuning.

If the virtual channel numbers are not changing, and everything on the broadcast TV side has been setup properly, a rescan of TV signals should clear up any issues.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dstoffa said:


> It might not be Tivo's problem.


I'm pretty sure it is. The repack has been known for a while. However, I don't expect TiVo to be watching every DMA. This is not over. We can only hope that TiVo fixes the changes quickly.

With OTA, TiVo tries to blanket an area that has no relationship to a zipcode's ability to receive a channel. The downside is that maintenance for such a large database is hard.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

NashGuy said:


> May I suggest changing your phone number and email address and going into hiding until mid-2020?


Voice emerging from the sky: "We can still track him"  Wha...Heh I'm not the voice, I swear .


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

tenthplanet said:


> Voice emerging from the sky: "We can still track him"  Wha...Heh I'm not the voice, I swear .


That's what the tin foil hat is for.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

tenthplanet said:


> Voice emerging from the sky: "We can still track him"  Wha...Heh I'm not the voice, I swear .





NashGuy said:


> That's what the tin foil hat is for.


Funny you should mention that..... 
Tin Foil Hats Actually Make it Easier for the Government to Track Your Thoughts - The Atlantic
*Tin Foil Hats Actually Make it Easier for the Government to Track Your Thoughts*


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

tenthplanet said:


> Funny you should mention that.....
> Tin Foil Hats Actually Make it Easier for the Government to Track Your Thoughts - The Atlantic


Ha! That's *EXACTLY* what the Deep State wants you to believe, sir!!!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I know it's cable, but I put it a lineup request on Friday to add two new channels. It was done today.


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## JOHN R GRILLOT (Jul 3, 2018)

NorthAlabama said:


> since this is happening nationwide, i would hope tivo has a solid and tested plan in place to handle each market as it occurs...btw, are you interested in any north dakota beachfront property?


Mine resolved itself today when I reset the device. If you still have a problem, let me know and I'll step you through what I did


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> I'm pretty sure it is. The repack has been known for a while. However, I don't expect TiVo to be watching every DMA. This is not over. We can only hope that TiVo fixes the changes quickly.
> 
> With OTA, TiVo tries to blanket an area that has no relationship to a zipcode's ability to receive a channel. The downside is that maintenance for such a large database is hard.


I don't think it is.

Again, connect your TV directly to the antenna that your Tivo is using. Scan. See how the repacked channels are identifying themselves.

Tivo knows schedules by a station's call letters or virtual channel numbers. It doesn't care about frequencies. A scan maps the frequency of a stream to a set of call letters or virtual channel numbers. The call letters or virtual channel numbers identify what programming schedule should be applied to the stream contents. If the stream is not identifying itself, the Tivo doesn't know what it's receiving, but it's receiving something.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

JOHN R GRILLOT said:


> Mine resolved itself today when I reset the device. If you still have a problem, let me know and I'll step you through what I did


thanks for the offer, but i'm cable + ota, and all is well (for the moment!).


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

dlfl said:


> This will postpone any thoughts I had about switching from cable to OTA for a while. I'm also in the Dayton OH area -- did channel 2 drop 2-3 in their repack?


Channel 2-3 is now showing up on channel 43-1


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Well I ran guided setup on my TiVo tonight and everything is mostly back to normal. I don't know if TiVo fixed the issue or if the stations had accidentally flipped the switch to begin broadcasting on the new frequency before they were supposed to and changed back. The reason I'm not sure is when checking one of the channels on the signal strength screen it shows virtual channel 2-1 as broadcasting on real channel 50, which is the old frequency. Additionally a friend of mine that uses a Roamio OTA was able to get things working today just by running a channel scan. Yesterday a channel scan had different results with two separate channel 2-1's showing up on the channel list and only one was active. Now there's just one showing.


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## JOHN R GRILLOT (Jul 3, 2018)

TeamPace said:


> Channel 2-3 is now showing up on channel 43-1


thanks for the tip on that one. I forgot to mention 2-3 wasn't fixed.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

TeamPace said:


> Channel 2-3 is now showing up on channel 43-1


Huh? 43-1 is WKOI, Richmond, IN while 2-3 was WDTN, Dayton OH (which my TV's no longer get via antenna)
This is based on info received on a two TV's with Antennas (no TiVo involved).
The WDTN website links to a Titan TV insert for "what's on" and it shows 2-3, ION TV. The 43-1 tunes also to ION TV and the program material matches what the Titan TV insert gives for 2-3

Further googling finds this in the wiki for "WDTN":


> On June 7, 2018, unrelated WKOI-TV began sharing WDTN's digital channel, with Ion Television programming appearing on virtual channel 43.1.[45] WDTN also continued to carry Ion Television on virtual channel 2.3.


However the last statement there no longer seems to apply (since 2-3 no longer can be tuned on either of two TV's connected directly to antennas).

I'm wondering what "sharing" in the wiki quote means, physically? Is the shared channel actually being transmitted from the WDTN Dayton antenna tower or from the Richmond IN WKOI tower some 30 or so miles to the west?


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

dlfl said:


> I'm wondering what "sharing" in the wiki quote means, physically? Is the shared channel actually being transmitted from the WDTN Dayton antenna tower or from the Richmond IN WKOI tower some 30 or so miles to the west?


Channel sharing means that TV Station A sold their 6 MHz block of bandwidth for a big bag of cash. They agreed to "share" Channel B's 6 MHz block and continue broadcasting, using Channel B's physical equipment.

So, if Channel A's transmitter was 30 miles from Channel B's transmitter, and you couldn't receive Channel B, you are no longer going to be able to pick up Channel A, since Channel B is really a digital subchannel to Channel A now.

If both channels broadcast from the same antenna farm, you wouldn't know the difference. However, when their plants were far apart, you bet you're going to notice a difference.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Additional info regarding WDTN Dayton, WKOI Richmond, sharing, etc.:

I found the signal info part of my TV's menu system. The WDTN channels (2-1 and 2-2) and the WKOI channel (43-1) are all on the same "physical channel" (50). And they all show the same high signal strength. Since (1) my antenna is directional and is pointed to the south side of Dayton (where all the local transmitter towers are located) and (2) I don't remember ever picking up WKOI, located west 30 miles, before now, I strongly suspect the 43-1 is being transmitted from the WDTN Dayton tower. I also doubt that two transmitters only 30 miles apart would be assigned the same physical channel.

I think my picture is consistent with @dstoffa's explanation in his previous post.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

dlfl said:


> Huh? 43-1 is WKOI, Richmond, IN while 2-3 was WDTN, Dayton OH (which my TV's no longer get via antenna)
> This is based on info received on a two TV's with Antennas (no TiVo involved).


It seems that WKOI, WDTN, and WBDT have all agreed to share one 6 MHz block of television spectrum. There is no way that all three can share one block and still carry all the digital subchannels. I assume you also may have noticed a drop in picture quality. Programs recorded off this station (and they are all now one station) probably take us less room on the Tivo, too.

Wikipedia now reads this on their WDTN page:


> Sister station WBDT began sharing WDTN's digital channel on June 29, 2018; on that date, virtual channel 2.3 was dropped.


So whatever was being shown on 2.3 is gone for good. No more room at the inn. WBDT got $27.3 million to go off the air, and is sharing WDTN's signal (from wherever their broadcast tower is). WKOI's spectrum was sold for over $20 million. They, too, are on WDTN's stick.

The broadcasts are on all UHF (RF) channel 50, and broadcasts the following streams with these virtual channel numbers from WDTN's transmitter:
2.1 NBC (WDTN-DT)
2.2 Escape (WDTN-DT2)
26.1 The CW (WBDT-DT)
26.2 bounce (WBDT-DT2)
43.1 ionTV (WKOI-DT)

All the other subchannels were dropped, because there isn't sufficient room for them all. These channels will all move to RF Channel 31 in October 2019.


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## dirtsy (Oct 29, 2017)

We went through the channel repack here in Milwaukee back in January. It took about three weeks in-all for everything straighten itself out for OTA. I did try to force things a bit with channel scans and re-running guided setup once a week (which may or may not have helped get things inline sooner). The thing to watch for is multiple entries of the same channel in the channel list. For me, one channel entry had the new frequency with no guide info, the other channel entry had the old frequency with guide info. Then a few days later, viola, the new frequency entry had guide data!

Good Luck!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

If you have cable, don’t assume the repack won’t affect you. The cable systems have to follow the dance as well. Here, we had a minor repack of Baltimore stations and Fios messed it up so a channel was missing for over a week. We also lost sub channels due to the sharing. Luckily, most are receivable from DC.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

dirtsy said:


> We went through the channel repack here in Milwaukee back in January. It took about three weeks in-all for everything straighten itself out for OTA. I did try to force things a bit with channel scans and re-running guided setup once a week (which may or may not have helped get things inline sooner). The thing to watch for is multiple entries of the same channel in the channel list. For me, one channel entry had the new frequency with no guide info, the other channel entry had the old frequency with guide info. Then a few days later, viola, the new frequency entry had guide data!
> 
> Good Luck!


The issue is really:

1. People need to be aware that the physical channel is changing during the repack. The transmitter may be moving. They may need to realign an antenna. (And might lose a channel in the process if now the antenna needs to point elsewhere.)

2. The re-packed channel needs to identify its streams properly, so the DVR knows what's what.

3. The user will need to force a rescan once the new packed channel is identifying its streams properly.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

NashGuy said:


> Ha! That's *EXACTLY* what the Deep State wants you to believe, sir!!!


More HYDRA (The real one, not the OS) propaganda at work.. :unamused::fearscream:


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

dstoffa said:


> The issue is really:
> 
> 1. People need to be aware that the physical channel is changing during the repack. The transmitter may be moving. They may need to realign an antenna. (And might lose a channel in the process if now the antenna needs to point elsewhere.)
> 
> ...


And it wouldn't hurt to have Hulu as a backup along with some network streaming apps.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dstoffa said:


> It seems that WKOI, WDTN, and WBDT have all agreed to share one 6 MHz block of television spectrum. There is no way that all three can share one block and still carry all the digital subchannels. I assume you also may have noticed a drop in picture quality. Programs recorded off this station (and they are all now one station) probably take us less room on the Tivo, too.
> 
> Wikipedia now reads this on their WDTN page:
> 
> ...


DOH! I missed the sentence in the WDTN wiki page that you quoted and it was the very next one after what I quoted! Interesting that Titan is still showing 2-3 as active. It appears that it was ionTV, so nothing is really lost program-wise due to the repack (since 43-1 is ionTV) except that people who used to get it from a tower 26 miles SE of Richmond will now have to get it from the WDTN Dayton tower 35 miles east of Richmond. It looks like no other transmitters for any channel are closer to Richmond than the Dayton ones. Thus it appears anyone in Richmond wanting to pull in OTA already needed a pretty good directional antenna before the repack. This info is from this web page:
Richmond, IN - TV Channels & Antenna Map


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## dirtsy (Oct 29, 2017)

dstoffa said:


> The issue is really:
> 
> 1. People need to be aware that the physical channel is changing during the repack. The transmitter may be moving. They may need to realign an antenna. (And might lose a channel in the process if now the antenna needs to point elsewhere.)
> 
> ...


From my experience, which may or may not have been the ideal situation, it really seems like doing nothing and being patient worked fine. I will add that in MKE we basically have a tower farm on the upper-eastside that ALL local stations use, so reorienting antennas was not necessary.

To your points: 1) The local affiliate is the one responsible to inform the public about the repack, not TiVo (my locals did this almost annoyingly for a month before the repack). 2) The fact that TiVo/Rovi does need to update it's database to reflect change in actual to virtual channel is accurate. 3) On the TiVo, forcing a rescan should not be necessary, but may be a useful step in forcing the system to update itself.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Same thing here. I did a guided setup and the issues resolved. Two local friends simply did another channel scan and their guides updated correctly. Obviously something happened yesterday that fixed he issue.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

TeamPace said:


> Same thing here. I did a guided setup and the issues resolved. Two local friends simply did another channel scan and their guides updated correctly. Obviously something happened yesterday that fixed he issue.


You would expect these updates to occur during the service connection.

Scott


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

HerronScott said:


> You would expect these updates to occur during the service connection.
> Scott


Possibly since only frequencies are changed the usual add/drop channel message from TiVo is not appropriate. I guess they don't have a method to notify a user that a rescan or GS is needed. I always get a message when my channels change.

About two months ago most of my local channels changed their QAM channels/frequencies. No message. I only noticed since my lone clear QAM channel moved.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

TeamPace said:


> Same thing here. I did a guided setup and the issues resolved. Two local friends simply did another channel scan and their guides updated correctly. Obviously something happened yesterday that fixed he issue.


It's possible that the WDTN fixed their streams (PSIP data) to identify everything that is coming off their stick. Guide data isn't mapped to actual RF frequencies, only virtual channels and call letters. Your Tivo needs to make that map by scanning the airwaves and identifying what each stream is, and mapping those streams to a program guide.

Your Tivo will continue to wait for a signal on the old frequency unless it finds a reason to rescan for channels. It might just as well think there was a power failure at the old station's transmitter and is simply waiting for the station to come back on-line.

Your tivo rescans during guided setup. It also scans when you tell it to. In 18 months time, when all these stations move to UHF 31, you'll have to rescan again. I don't think "re-scanning" is part of a nightly update.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dstoffa said:


> It's possible that the WDTN fixed their streams (PSIP data) to identify everything that is coming off their stick. Guide data isn't mapped to actual RF frequencies, only virtual channels and call letters. Your Tivo needs to make that map by scanning the airwaves and identifying what each stream is, and mapping those streams to a program guide.


Don't tell my Premiere. It has a full guide with 33 OTA stations and I never connected an antenna.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> Don't tell my Premiere. It has a full guide with 33 OTA stations and I never connected an antenna.


Having a full guide and being able to tune / record them are two different things... If you don't have an antenna connected to the Tivo, how are you receiving anything?


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

TonyD79 said:


> If you have cable, don't assume the repack won't affect you. The cable systems have to follow the dance as well. Here, we had a minor repack of Baltimore stations and Fios messed it up so a channel was missing for over a week. We also lost sub channels due to the sharing. Luckily, most are receivable from DC.


which cable operator dropped the ball in your market?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dstoffa said:


> Having a full guide and being able to tune / record them are two different things... If you don't have an antenna connected to the Tivo, how are you receiving anything?


I never said I received anything. I have a full OTA guide and stations. My Premiere has never had any contact with an antenna. The idea that call letters are needed is not correct. A channel scan is not required but may find stations missing from what TiVo provides. The PSIP does provide a Program Number (sub-channel) but TiVo doesn't care about anything else. The first time it was posted I let it slide. This time I needed to set the record straight.

BTW, my Premiere does receive two QAM channels and four vsb channels. One QAM is 480i and one is 1080i, both are DD 2.0 and also in my guide.

This is with a 50' AGL antenna: TV Fool


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> which cable operator dropped the ball in your market?


Fios.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> I never said I received anything. I have a full OTA guide and stations. My Premiere has never had any contact with an antenna. The idea that call letters are needed is not correct. A channel scan is not required but may find stations missing from what TiVo provides. The PSIP does provide a Program Number (sub-channel) but TiVo doesn't care about anything else. The first time it was posted I let it slide. This time I needed to set the record straight.
> 
> BTW, my Premiere does receive two QAM channels and four vsb channels. One QAM is 480i and one is 1080i, both are DD 2.0 and also in my guide.
> 
> This is with a 50' AGL antenna: TV Fool


So then what does your Tivo do, if it isn't receiving anything? Do you just have an electronic TV Guide for your OTA market?

The Tivo still needs to map the guide data you've downloaded to some stream that it receives. It does this with PSIP or Station Calls.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

And just imagine what it will be like when the REALLY big deadline re-pack day comes! Heaven help us all. If TiVo can't handle these mini-re-packs in a timely manner (I could NOT record some shows because it took days for TiVo to access the new frequencies), I dread the true Re-pack day. Although TiVo is speedy compared to Dish who still have the wrong EPG on an OTA for an earlier re-pack, and Dish requires a re-scan to get the new frequencies for re-pack.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Series3Sub said:


> And just imagine what it will be like when the REALLY big deadline re-pack day comes! Heaven help us all. If TiVo can't handle these mini-re-packs in a timely manner (I could NOT record some shows because it took days for TiVo to access the new frequencies), I dread the true Re-pack day. Although TiVo is speedy compared to Dish who still have the wrong EPG on an OTA for an earlier re-pack, and Dish requires a re-scan to get the new frequencies for re-pack.


I think the repack is a rolling date, not a single one. Different markets at different times.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

It took 3 days for KOCE in Los Angeles, did Not require a channel rescan.
TV Roamio can't program correct PBS channel
I had noticed Tivo had been playing with the channel list for quite a while, kept on getting messages on my Roamio about it.

There are about 1,000 stations changing. That sounds like less than a one person job at TiVo if the government has a central database of scheduled frequency change dates. Considering the budget for the repack is in the billions, it would seem the FCC could afford to be organized about it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

In the old days we'd just blame this on the data provider. Channel lineup messed up, it's Tribune's fault. Now that TiVo is the data provider this is 100% their fault and they need to get on the ball.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> I think the repack is a rolling date, not a single one. Different markets at different times.


Yes. There are something like a dozen phases of repack. It can even happen in one market at several different times. A station may elect to move to its new frequency / channel share earlier than its deadline if it doesn't harm a nearby broadcaster.

Here is what is happening in Dayton, OH. The changes occur at phase 6.

RabbitEars.Info


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dstoffa said:


> So then what does your Tivo do, if it isn't receiving anything? Do you just have an electronic TV Guide for your OTA market?
> The Tivo still needs to map the guide data you've downloaded to some stream that it receives. It does this with PSIP or Station Calls.


My Premiere holds about 400GB of programs for the summer drought. It helps me with troubleshooting problems for other TCF members.
Guided Setup:
Choose a country.
Download any updates.
Select a zipcode.
download possible providers - select provider
download initial channel list based on provider/headend.
If OTA, perform a channel scan.
download initial 48 hours of guide listings.
At this point you hit the TiVo button and GS is done.
No need to access a PSIP or any station. Lack of PSIP ability is the reason this thread (and many more) have been created. TiVo needs a service connection or its clock drifts - no PSIP. TiVo needs to fix physical frequency changes. Yes, it can find stations with a scan, but only TiVo can map those frequencies to a station (and guide data).

Just read the posts in AVSForum on the DVR+ from Channel Master.

Tivo not recording NBC show?
Anyone else having guide isuues that are NOT getting resolved?

You get the idea.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> My Premiere holds about 400GB of programs for the summer drought. It helps me with troubleshooting problems for other TCF members.
> Guided Setup:
> Choose a country.
> Download any updates.
> ...


So what you are telling me is that the Tivo actually needs real RF channels to match guide data properly? That's an utter fail on their programming. Why would someone want to add an additional layer of complexity to their software, and introduce more potential points of failure?

ATSC tuners are designed to create the map from RF to virtual channels / calls. Why have your (guide integration) software create an additional layer of complexity? (Unless this was the quick and dirty way to get the software out the door when the Series 3 premiered....)

There needs to be more to it.

I'd love to see someone with a new or lightly loaded Tivo do a factory reset / GS after a repack / channel move and see if starting from scratch results in similar problems as seen by those with existing setups, or everything is perfect.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dstoffa said:


> So what you are telling me is that the Tivo actually needs real RF channels to match guide data properly? That's an utter fail on their programming. Why would someone want to add an additional layer of complexity to their software, and introduce more potential points of failure?


It's TiVo.

Just read post 1. It says it all.


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

Dan203 said:


> In the old days we'd just blame this on the data provider. Channel lineup messed up, it's Tribune's fault. Now that TiVo is the data provider this is 100% their fault and they need to get on the ball.


I've completely stopped recommending TiVo to any of my friends or family. After the guide issues, the new UI, the cable card problems and now channel repacking it's just too much. I cant explain it all away to someone new and expecting more. TiVo used to just work but now it takes work. Checking up on recordings and schedules are more than I want to inflict on anyone. If they come out of all this turmoil with a great product again I'll be back on board but for now....


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> It's TiVo.
> 
> Just read post 1. It says it all.


Yes but that's what is puzzling. If the Tivo actually assigns guide data to physical channels / subchannels instead of calls or PSIP, that is an utter fail in their programming. The programming should have been written to mate guide data with virtual channels.... not physical frequencies. Then they wouldn't have to do anything at this point, just have users rescan after a repack to allow the ATSC tuner to rebuild the map...

Has anyone ever reverse engineered the data that comes down to a Tivo (for a lineup) during guided setup? What about how programming data is sent?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dstoffa said:


> Yes but that's what is puzzling. If the Tivo actually assigns guide data to physical channels / subchannels instead of calls or PSIP, that is an utter fail in their programming.


Let's go back to our roots. Cable. TiVo pre-dates the PSIP. All we needed was a translator (cable card) to change the QAM channels to display channels. With OTA, the DMA gives TiVo enough data to build a database of physical channels and their virtual channels. No need for local computation. The guide (lineup and listings) are 100% downloaded. We know, from recent clock issues, that a TiVo gets time from one of several servers. PSIP time is sometimes inaccurate. It was the lack of PSIP time that killed the Sony DHG. It's the ability to use the PSIP that keeps the CM DVR+ alive since TiVo (Rovi) stopped being the guide supplier.

A TiVo does use the PSIP's sub-channel data (I think) which must be maintained. When it's not, you get wrong guide data. I have received updates to my OTA Premiere almost weekly. I say weekly since I only give it power on weekends. But its OTA guide is really a stretch. I have stations from NY, Philly, Harrisburg PA, Delaware and my actual DMA: Scranton-Wilkes-Barre. That's 33 stations plus their subchannels. I've not had one issue with the repack and I know my PBS station moved. One advantage to a small responsive cable company.

When you look at the Channels/Signal Strength the physical channel frequency is displayed. You could say it's measured. I say it is hard coded. If it was measured, wouldn't the channel strength diagnostic be sequential? Since I use a Premiere I get four analog channels (just color bars). My TV is connected to my cable. If I lose my "cable", I switch to my TV for a second opinion. Just because a channel is encrypted doesn't mean it doesn't display in Diagnostics either.

Did I mention my Hydra Roamio OTA doesn't have a cable card? Please understand, I am not an expert. Most of my experience is rather old. But I read a lot. And I'm old.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> Let's go back to our roots. Cable. TiVo pre-dates the PSIP. All we needed was a translator (cable card) to change the QAM channels to display channels. With OTA, the DMA gives TiVo enough data to build a database of physical channels and their virtual channels. No need for local computation. The guide (lineup and listings) are 100% downloaded. We know, from recent clock issues, that a TiVo gets time from one of several servers. PSIP time is sometimes inaccurate. It was the lack of PSIP time that killed the Sony DHG. It's the ability to use the PSIP that keeps the CM DVR+ alive since TiVo (Rovi) stopped being the guide supplier.
> 
> A TiVo does use the PSIP's sub-channel data (I think) which must be maintained. When it's not, you get wrong guide data. I have received updates to my OTA Premiere almost weekly. I say weekly since I only give it power on weekends. But its OTA guide is really a stretch. I have stations from NY, Philly, Harrisburg PA, Delaware and my actual DMA: Scranton-Wilkes-Barre. That's 33 stations plus their subchannels. I've not had one issue with the repack and I know my PBS station moved. One advantage to a small responsive cable company.
> 
> ...


I understand how it could have gotten to this point. But it didn't have to. Tivo preceeds ATSC for Series 1 and 2 models, but I think the Series 3 programmers may have erred when they coded the system for ATSC. Maybe they decided to take a shortcut back then and mimic what was done for NTSC and marry programming to a physical channel. And that decision probably carries through to this day...

I would have thought that:
1. The DMA you select for OTA gets you a list of virtual channel numbers / subchannels, and pulls down the guide data for the market.
2. The ATSC tuner goes through its own routine, and scans for tv signals. It creates a map of physical channels to virtual channels.
3. The Tivo OS would engage the tuners to tune to the virtual channels based on programs selected by the user.

I guess this assumption is incorrect.

Does anyone remember what happend in 2009 when the analog broadcasts were shut down, and the digital channels all moved around?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

For anyone wanting to know when their market, and which particular stations within their market, will be repacked, you can go to the following FCC site to see the transition schedule:
Transition Schedule

As you'll see in the chart there, there are 10 transition phases. Phase 1 is to be completed by 11/30/18; Phase 5 by 9/6/19; and Phase 10 by 7/3/20.

The above link only shows you the phase-based timeline, it doesn't tell you which markets/stations are associated with each phase. For that, you can click the following link to download a CSV file from the FCC. You can open this file in pretty much any spreadsheet application, such as Microsoft Excel, Google Sheets (free), Apple Numbers, etc:
https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/ia-regions-stations_sortable.csv

Each individual station is listed on a separate row of the spreadsheet. You'll probably want to sort by column B, which lists the market for each station, so that you can see all of your area's stations grouped together.

In some markets, not all affected stations will be repacked in the same phase. For example, here in Nashville, 9 stations are slated for repack. Eight of them are in Phase 6 but one is in Phase 10.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> For anyone wanting to know when their market, and which particular stations within their market, will be repacked, you can go to the following FCC site to see the transition schedule:
> Transition Schedule
> 
> As you'll see in the chart there, there are 10 transition phases. Phase 1 is to be completed by 11/30/18; Phase 5 by 9/6/19; and Phase 10 by 7/3/20.
> ...


Everything you need to know is here: RabbitEars.Info


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

dstoffa said:


> Everything you need to know is here: RabbitEars.Info


 Everything you need to know is also presented, IMO, in a simpler and more straightforward manner (assuming you know how to use a spreadsheet) in the two links I posted above.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Comparing both lists with what my TiVo has as physical channels, the first 10 I checked have not moved.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

AFAIK, TiVos have never used PSIP data (they probably should, but they don't). From personal experience and other posts here, the only thing that a channel scan can accomplish is to identify an active channel that isn't in the guide data.

If a channel isn't in the guide data it's useless anyway as far as TiVos are concerned. Fixing the data is the only real option.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ggieseke said:


> AFAIK, TiVos have never used PSIP data (they probably should, but they don't).


It was pointed out to me a while back that in Diagnostics, the item "Program Number" is the sub-channel. Not saying it matters, but it is displayed. Since it is also accurate with QAM channels, I'm not sure if PSIP is where it comes from.


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## bleech2 (Mar 16, 2014)

I already went through this back in January when several channels that sold their spectrum vacated their frequencies and became sub-channels of sister-stations. It took 10 days for Tivo to get most of the information right, but one station took at least a month (not a station I watch, so I wasn't paying that close attention). Here is my thread: Guide problems after channels change RF assignment but keep PSIP


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

I noticed a few channels are moving to a higher frequency within their current UHF band. I thought the purpose of repacking was to move the stations to a lower UHF band or move to VHF to free the higher UHF frequencies for 5G.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

shwru980r said:


> I noticed a few channels are moving to a higher frequency within their current UHF band. I thought the purpose of repacking was to move the stations to a lower UHF band or move to VHF to free the higher UHF frequencies for 5G.


The auction took UHF channels 38 through 51, which were devoted to TV, and sold them off to cellular/wireless. (Channel 37 was and still is reserved for radio astronomy.) So there's all kinds of movement among the UHF and VHF frequencies up through channel 36 now. In some cases, yes, stations are moving upward within their given band, such as from UHF 14 to UHF 26. It's quite a puzzle to assign a frequency to all of the TV stations without there being any interference between them and other stations in nearby markets. That's why some stations that didn't participate in the auction are still having to shift to a different frequency within their current band.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> The auction took UHF channels 38 through 51, which were devoted to TV, and sold them off to cellular/wireless. (Channel 37 was and still is reserved for radio astronomy.) So there's all kinds of movement among the UHF and VHF frequencies up through channel 36 now. In some cases, yes, stations are moving upward within their given band, such as from UHF 14 to UHF 26. It's quite a puzzle to assign a frequency to all of the TV stations without there being any interference between them and other stations in nearby markets. That's why some stations that didn't participate in the auction are still having to shift to a different frequency within their current band.


Not sure why more stations didn't participate in the auction since there was a chance that they would have to change frequencies anyway. Might as well get paid extra.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

shwru980r said:


> Not sure why more stations didn't participate in the auction since there was a chance that they would have to change frequencies anyway. Might as well get paid extra.


I believe that the only voluntary options for high-power stations in the auction -- which would result in the station getting auction money -- were to either give up their frequency (via frequency-sharing with another station, or going completely off-air) OR to switch to a lower (less crowded) frequency band (e.g. from UHF to VHF high; from VHF high to VHF low).

There wasn't a voluntary paid option to switch frequencies within the same band. However, I think the FCC does provide some money to stations that are forced (didn't volunteer) to switch to a different frequency in their current band, to help them cover the associated repack costs.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on any of those details.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

On the bright side, since the TV channel spectrum band will become narrower, this should theoretically make it possible to design better TV antennas that can focus better on that narrower band.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> On the bright side, since the TV channel spectrum band will become narrower, this should theoretically make it possible to design better TV antennas that can focus better on that narrower band.


Ironically, larger (but not noticeably) UHF antennas will be needed. Much of the UHF antennas on the market today were designed to be wide-band from 14-69, if not 14-83. Ideally you'd want to design your UHF antenna to perform like a star from 14-36, and be a dog north of 37 (to keep out cellular signals).

Now we are nit-picking here, but the sweet spot for many UHF antennas is north of RF 30... Maybe it's time for ChannelMaster and friends to revisit their products... But I doubt they do, as there probably isn't much ROI...


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

dstoffa said:


> Ironically, larger (but not noticeably) UHF antennas will be needed. Much of the UHF antennas on the market today were designed to be wide-band from 14-69, if not 14-83. Ideally you'd want to design your UHF antenna to perform like a star from 14-36, and be a dog north of 37 (to keep out cellular signals).
> 
> Now we are nit-picking here, but the sweet spot for many UHF antennas is north of RF 30... Maybe it's time for ChannelMaster and friends to revisit their products... But I doubt they do, as there probably isn't much ROI...


I have no doubt that someone will design a better TV antenna once the switchover is complete.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I have no doubt that someone will design a better TV antenna once the switchover is complete.


Or claim to.


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## losaltos (Aug 13, 2002)

So, when an OTA channel changes frequencies, and you rescan on the Tivo to get the new mapping, it adds the new mapping but seems to leave the old dead frequency mapping in place. Any way to simply remove the no longer valid leftovers from the legacy scan ? Is this too much to ask? I know you can uncheck it in channel list, but there really shouldn't be the box around to uncheck.

Perhaps this is related to the new frequency mapping arriving at a different label for the channel. For example, since the frequency sell off in January we have KQEDDT2 and also KQED+. One mapping is current but it's not the one with the name KQED gives to the channel normally (KQED+) which is connected to the old dead frequency. Maybe if it were the exact same name, then Tivo itself would auto-delete the previous mapping.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I guess this explains why I've been getting channel changes where the channel is removed and re-added, though they are happening on my cable Tivo so the channels are removed and re-added to the same channel. That's been happening frequently the past few weeks, even though the channels in my area aren't supposed to shift until August 2nd.

RabbitEars.Info

Since this includes 3 out of 4 major stations, I guess it's a good thing they picked the middle of the summer to do it.

What's odd about that list is that the channels are swapping around. Only one was above 40. I guess this is to prevent conflicts with neighboring regions, but all the stations that are swapping frequencies are within a mile of each other.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

losaltos said:


> So, when an OTA channel changes frequencies, and you rescan on the Tivo to get the new mapping, it adds the new mapping but seems to leave the old dead frequency mapping in place. Any way to simply remove the no longer valid leftovers from the legacy scan ? Is this too much to ask? I know you can uncheck it in channel list, but there really shouldn't be the box around to uncheck.
> 
> Perhaps this is related to the new frequency mapping arriving at a different label for the channel. For example, since the frequency sell off in January we have KQEDDT2 and also KQED+. One mapping is current but it's not the one with the name KQED gives to the channel normally (KQED+) which is connected to the old dead frequency. Maybe if it were the exact same name, then Tivo itself would auto-delete the previous mapping.


I've got channels mapped to multiple frequencies now and repacking won't start here for a long time. I have to uncheck the ones that don't work.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> I've got channels mapped to multiple frequencies now and repacking won't start here for a long time. I have to uncheck the ones that don't work.


I've got several duplicate channels that appear exactly the same in all details, yet one will work and the other won't. It is quite a trick to choose the right ones to uncheck.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Or claim to.


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## RMG2459 (Aug 18, 2018)

JOHN R GRILLOT said:


> Mine resolved itself today when I reset the device. If you still have a problem, let me know and I'll step you through what I did


I just developed this issue this week. I did a channel rescan, a guided setup, and a reboot. What did you do? I use a Romeo OTA dvr.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

About 3-4 months ago our local Dallas NBC channel 5 changed RF numbers.

The TiVo could not cope with it. It no longer recorded the shows nor could you watch it live (unless you punched in the new RF number directly).

TiVo support had no solution, but were aware of the problem.

The solution, you will not like the answer, is: Do a full Tivo reset that fully reformats the hard drive, doing any thing else that will not work. I know, I tried them all first.

Apparently, that original mapping of old RF to channel 5.1 etc. would stay even though I could also map to the new RF and channel 5.1...&#8230;.it left both 5.1's in the box and the TiVo was not happy; thus the requirement to do the full potato, the full clean/reformat, and set it all up again.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TexasDVR said:


> About 3-4 months ago our local Dallas NBC channel 5 changed RF numbers.
> The TiVo could not cope with it. It no longer recorded the shows nor could you watch it live (unless you punched in the new RF number directly).
> TiVo support had no solution, but were aware of the problem.
> The solution, you will not like the answer, is: Do a full Tivo reset that fully reformats the hard drive, doing any thing else that will not work. I know, I tried them all first.
> Apparently, that original mapping of old RF to channel 5.1 etc. would stay even though I could also map to the new RF and channel 5.1...&#8230;.it left both 5.1's in the box and the TiVo was not happy; thus the requirement to do the full potato, the full clean/reformat, and set it all up again.


Too bad they didn't tell you to repeat GS for a far away zipcode. When you run GS with the same zipcode a new lineup isn't downloaded. I know two zipcodes which have my lineup. I have forced a rebuild by just choosing the other zipcode. Only problem is sometimes a channel addition only makes it to one zipcode. That's easy to fix.


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## RMG2459 (Aug 18, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> Too bad they didn't tell you to repeat GS for a far away zipcode. When you run GS with the same zipcode a new lineup isn't downloaded. I know two zipcodes which have my lineup. I have forced a rebuild by just choosing the other zipcode. Only problem is sometimes a channel addition only makes it to one zipcode. That's easy to fix.


I thought your fix had merit so I gave it a try. I tried a GS using a different zipcode and the channels I am having an issue with were gone. So, I did another GS with my zipcode and unfortunately the channels reappeared as before. Problem not resolved. I'm holding off a total reset for now. I am paid up through the end of the month. If problem isn't resolved by then, it will be time to cancel.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

RMG2459 said:


> thought your fix had merit so I gave it a try. I tried a GS using a different zipcode and the channels I am having an issue with were gone. So, I did another GS with my zipcode and unfortunately the channels reappeared as before. Problem not resolved. I'm holding off a total reset for now. I am paid up through the end of the month. If problem isn't resolved by then, it will be time to cancel.


Neither of these are going to help your issue. You just need to wait until the lineup change is completed (and I'd still recommend submitting it yourself).

Scott


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## RMG2459 (Aug 18, 2018)

Thanks for your input. I did submit a lineup change through a Tivo rep. Is there a better way? How would I do it myself?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

RMG2459 said:


> Thanks for your input. I did submit a lineup change through a Tivo rep. Is there a better way? How would I do it myself?


Report a Lineup Issue There is a comments section.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Hit Tulsa this weekend, with 2 stations changing frequencies. Now no guide info OTA for Grit, Get, H&I, Mynet or GEB. I submitted a line up change for all of them, now to see how long it takes Tivo to fix things. Its been over a year and I still can't get them to fix the info for Light TV being off 3 hrs. I finally gave up on it several months ago. This is more painful as Grit, Get and H&I are watched a lot.


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## RMG2459 (Aug 18, 2018)

osu1991 said:


> Hit Tulsa this weekend, with 2 stations changing frequencies. Now no guide info OTA for Grit, Get, H&I, Mynet or GEB. I submitted a line up change for all of them, now to see how long it takes Tivo to fix things. Its been over a year and I still can't get them to fix the info for Light TV being off 3 hrs. I finally gave up on it several months ago. This is more painful as Grit, Get and H&I are watched a lot.


It took Tivo about 6 days to fix my issue. I still have one issue, but I don't think it is a Tivo issue. When the repack happened, 3 channels were affected, NBC, CWplus, and H&I. NBC and H&I are fixed. I get the channel info for CWplus, but not audio/video. I'm sure if the station is still broadcasting CWplus. It isn't an issue for me because another local station does broadcast CW, and I seldom watch it anyway.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I just noticed on my OTA TiVo all the channels moved around. I had to resetup my channel list. PITA because it lists like 3 versions of every channel and I only get 1 well.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> I just noticed on my OTA TiVo all the channels moved around. I had to resetup my channel list. PITA because it lists like 3 versions of every channel and I only get 1 well.


Happened here overnight as well.
Changing the channel to the correct frequency works for tuning, but guide data has nothing.
Redid guided setup, and like you, got 3 versions of the major 5 networks (CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX and CW), countless little independent stations (mostly Hispanic programming) along with every translator station in the state of Utah, along with some Western Colorado translators, Southwest Wyoming translators, Southern Idaho and I think I even have some Reno/Vegas translators.
Total PIA trying to find which one is the actual correct tune-able station/frequency.

Luckily, I'm only recording a couple things for the next couple of weeks, so can set manual recordings if need be.

TiVo/Rovi needs to figure out how TV works out west in the huge states with lots of transators.
It would be so much easier if they just used PSIP like the tuners in TV's.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

I just redid guided setup again, hoping to chisel down the channel options a bit.
It is so much worse.
Only one option for CBS and FOX, and they appear to be correct, but I lost my ABC and NBC affiliates completely, like they don't even exist.
Even going into the channel list and selecting a channel on the frequency they moved to won't let me tune them.
Trying again with a different zip code, seeing if that will help.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Tried a different zip code, but still well within the Salt Lake Valley, and results were totally different.
8 KUTV 2-1s with guide data, only one will tune, 8 more 2-2s, 4 KTVX 4-1s with guide data(previously missing ABC affiliate), and one with no guide data, and it is the only one will tune, and 4 each of the -1s. -2s. -3s, 5 KSL 5-1s with guide data(the previously missing NBC affiliate, but none of them will tune, only the one 5-1 without guide data will tune), 5 13-1's (FOX) along with 5 each of the subchannels as well) and this is duplicated for each channel down the line.

This has all been with my original Roamio Basic.

Tried just rescanning channels on one of my Roamio OTA's, and it's like night and day, almost all the channels I care about have guide data, and are tuneable, only the ABC affiliate 4-1 wasn't able to tune, but going into channels and selecting the one with generic call letters that include the right frequency, and I can tune and set manual recordings.

I give up, at least for today.
Will give things a couple days to settle down and try again midweek.
Only recording one thing tomorrow, and it just happens to be on one of the 2 channels that didn't have to change frequencies.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Good luck. I didn’t have to redo GS. All my channels were there, they were just mixed in with a bunch of others I don't get or don't care about and I had to figure out where the ones I wanted were located.


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## chuvak (Jul 22, 2006)

phox_mulder said:


> Tried a different zip code, but still well within the Salt Lake Valley, and results were totally different.
> 8 KUTV 2-1s with guide data, only one will tune, 8 more 2-2s, 4 KTVX 4-1s with guide data(previously missing ABC affiliate), and one with no guide data, and it is the only one will tune, and 4 each of the -1s. -2s. -3s, 5 KSL 5-1s with guide data(the previously missing NBC affiliate, but none of them will tune, only the one 5-1 without guide data will tune), 5 13-1's (FOX) along with 5 each of the subchannels as well) and this is duplicated for each channel down the line.
> 
> This has all been with my original Roamio Basic.
> ...


I reported the lineup issues for SLC using TiVo's form yesterday. This afternoon I got an email requesting OTA frequencies, channel numbers, etc. I just sent that in. Hopefully they get the guide data back on track quickly.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

chuvak said:


> I reported the lineup issues for SLC using TiVo's form yesterday. This afternoon I got an email requesting OTA frequencies, channel numbers, etc. I just sent that in. Hopefully they get the guide data back on track quickly.


That was my next step, just didn't have time yet today.
Oddly, I haven't done anything yet on my bolt, but at least one of the the new frequencies magically showed up, with guide data.
This was as of 10pm last night, didn't have a chance to check anything today before leaving for work.


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## MMG (Dec 11, 1999)

chuvak said:


> I reported the lineup issues for SLC using TiVo's form yesterday. This afternoon I got an email requesting OTA frequencies, channel numbers, etc. I just sent that in. Hopefully they get the guide data back on track quickly.


Rabbitears.info keeps very current lists if you need a quick list to send to Rovi/TiVo. Here's Detroit's: Stations for Detroit, Michigan

To find your own market go here: RabbitEars.Info

Choose your market and the select: "print all" to get a nice formatted list to send to Rovi/TiVo...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## chuvak (Jul 22, 2006)

SLC is fixed as of today. Four business days isn't the worst I suppose. Had a lengthy loading period after connecting to TiVo and had to go adjust my channel selections afterwards, but back to normal now.


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## adavidw (Feb 23, 2000)

chuvak said:


> SLC is fixed as of today. Four business days isn't the worst I suppose. Had a lengthy loading period after connecting to TiVo and had to go adjust my channel selections afterwards, but back to normal now.


What zip code are you using (just in case TiVo hasn't applied the fixes to all zip codes in the DMA yet)?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

chuvak said:


> SLC is fixed as of today. Four business days isn't the worst I suppose. Had a lengthy loading period after connecting to TiVo and had to go adjust my channel selections afterwards, but back to normal now.


Thank you for the update.
I'll rescan all my various TiVo's when I get home from work tonight.
I actually haven't touched 2 of them yet, didn't want to mess them up since they were actually recording things this week.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Maybe I spoke too soon.
Just checked the app on my phone, and my guide only shows 5 channels.
2-1, 2-2, 4-1, 4-30 and 13-1.
Setup a backup recording for one show tonight on the "new" channel, just in case, it showed it was recording from the old channel, even though I changed it earlier this week.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Tulsa OTA is fixed now. Service connection and rescanned, now those channels are working with guide data. Light TV is still 3 hrs off but, everything else is correct again.


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## chuvak (Jul 22, 2006)

phox_mulder said:


> Maybe I spoke too soon.
> Just checked the app on my phone, and my guide only shows 5 channels.
> 2-1, 2-2, 4-1, 4-30 and 13-1.
> Setup a backup recording for one show tonight on the "new" channel, just in case, it showed it was recording from the old channel, even though I changed it earlier this week.


I had to connect to the TiVo service and let it reload the data. I had to unselect the "new" channels and go back to the "old" in Channel Settings afterwards.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

An FYI for Utah people, at least those who get their channels from the main transmitter on the Oquirrh mountains west of SLC.
The new transmitter they put in for the repack is bad.
They will be switching back to the old antenna Wednesday 9-19 while they try to figure out what is wrong with the new one.
So, all the channels that changed frequencies a couple weekends ago, will be moving back to their old frequencies, at least for a couple days.
Hoping they get it figured out before the new season starts next week.

I'm sure TiVo/Rovi has no idea this is happening, let alone how to make it work.


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## adavidw (Feb 23, 2000)

I thought there must be a problem. I remember reading they were operating at half power in prep for the work, but once the transmitters were switched for the repack we were supposed to see full strength again. Instead, I've noticed _worse_ signal strength since the repack.

Glad there's a likely explanation for what I was seeing.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

And it looks like they didn't have to switch back to the old antenna.
Don't know if they found and fixed the problem with the new one, or they are waiting for parts or a better time to fix it.

Stay tuned.


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## mmf01 (Jan 31, 2011)

Not an OTA user, but skimming through this, I though this might help everyone. Apologies if this link was already posted.
*
Want to know when you'll be dealing with this "repack" madness? Go to the NAB link, select your market (DMA) from the top left, hit search. *Each callsign for the market will appear. Some will have a transition phase number which correlates to timing of testing and actual switch over implementation.

Searchable Clearinghouse | National Association of Broadcasters

If I can find this, TiVo surely can as well. Instead of being proactive, they are simply being reactive and outsourcing product operations to their users, who must complain in order to get things corrected. Complete BS if you ask me.

All of this is scheduled to continue until July of 2020 as rollout is staggered across national markets. I can see this also screwing up cable channel mapping for guide data too.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mmf01 said:


> *Want to know when you'll be dealing with this "repack" madness? Go to the NAB link, select your market (DMA) from the top left, hit search. *Each callsign for the market will appear. Some will have a transition phase number which correlates to timing of testing and actual switch over implementation.
> 
> Searchable Clearinghouse | National Association of Broadcasters
> 
> If I can find this, TiVo surely can as well. Instead of being proactive, they are simply being reactive and outsourcing product operations to their users, who must complain in order to get things corrected. Complete BS if you ask me.


The phases show a testing start date and a phase completion date but that wouldn't tell you when in that 2 month period that a particular station would switch. To be safe, TiVo could use this information and switch on the last day of the phase completion but that wouldn't help for stations that switch earlier than that date. Ideally they would contact each station that's transferring in that phase and try and confirm an actual transition date. Looks like about 82 stations in the current phase.

*TRANSITION PHASES*
Testing Begins - Phase Completion

*Phase 1*
September 14, 2018 - November 30, 2018

Scott


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

mmf01 said:


> Not an OTA user, but skimming through this, I though this might help everyone. Apologies if this link was already posted.


I don't receive any OTA channels but I have a Premiere configured for OTA. My DMA is there. In my lineup I have Philly, NY, and some NJ and DE. TiVo is really optimistic.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Enter your zip code to see when your local stations are moving. Some stations give an exact date, others give a timeframe.

When are Stations Moving? | TVAnswers.org


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

So I see Tivo decided to change a stations RF station 6 MONTHS EARLY!!

KSTC Minneapolis is moving from RF45 to RF30 next April (phase 3) and Tivo already changed it to 30

Ticket opened.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

unclehonkey said:


> So I see Tivo decided to change a stations RF station 6 MONTHS EARLY!!
> 
> KSTC Minneapolis is moving from RF45 to RF30 next April (phase 3) and Tivo already changed it to 30
> 
> Ticket opened.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

unclehonkey said:


> So I see Tivo decided to change a stations RF station 6 MONTHS EARLY!!
> 
> KSTC Minneapolis is moving from RF45 to RF30 next April (phase 3) and Tivo already changed it to 30
> 
> Ticket opened.


You people are never happy. TiVo does it late, and you complain. TiVo does it early, and you complain again.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> You people are never happy. TiVo does it late, and you complain. TiVo does it early, and you complain again.


True dat


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> You people are never happy. TiVo does it late, and you complain. TiVo does it early, and you complain again.


TiVo gets it right and you still ... no wait. When has TiVo gotten it right again?


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> You people are never happy. TiVo does it late, and you complain. TiVo does it early, and you complain again.


I can understand if the station was to move say last week and due to the weather they had to wait a week (there have been some examples recently of that) but to move it 6 months early? What was Tivo thinking?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Anotherpyr said:


> TiVo gets it right and you still ... no wait. When has TiVo gotten it right again?


Well, OK, sometimes it takes 2 or 3 attempts.  (I'm thinking when TiVo updates its software and earlier features get broken . . . and then it takes TiVo months and 2 or sometimes 3 attempts to fix them).


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Yay Tivo fixed it on Tuesday night after a force update. Less than 2 days. Impressive


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

I'll also give Tivo some credit too as 9 days ago one of our low powered stations decided instead of moving to their new channel (they were on 43 moving supposedly to 20) they dropped all the 3ABN stations they had on 33 (which they also own) and moved everything from 43 to 33. Only took Tivo 5 days to switch the programming on 33 to the **mostly** correct lineup (They dropped QVC & QVC+ when they moved and replaced with CBN News and 3ABN. Those still show QVC & QVC+).


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## gor88 (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, looks like I am going to have to nurse the recordings for WDBD, Jackson, MS FOX 40, after they flip from actual channel 40 to 14. We also have WLOO My35 flipping from actual 41 to 36 the same morning, 11/30/2018. I am figuring that it will take up to roughly two weeks afterwards for Rovi to update the actual frequencies. Once this flip is done, though, the Jackson, MS DMA is good going forward (until another subchannel is added on one of the existing stations).


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## gor88 (Jan 3, 2008)

gor88 said:


> Wow, looks like I am going to have to nurse the recordings for WDBD, Jackson, MS FOX 40, after they flip from actual channel 40 to 14. We also have WLOO My35 flipping from actual 41 to 36 the same morning, 11/30/2018. I am figuring that it will take up to roughly two weeks afterwards for Rovi to update the actual frequencies. Once this flip is done, though, the Jackson, MS DMA is good going forward (until another subchannel is added on one of the existing stations).


The repack happened this morning in Jackson, MS. I have reported it to TiVo, will see how long it takes to get the actual channels updated in the TiVo database.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

gor88 said:


> The repack happened this morning in Jackson, MS. I have reported it to TiVo, will see how long it takes to get the actual channels updated in the TiVo database.


Yeah today is supposed to be the Phase 1 completion date.


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## gor88 (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, TiVo did update the actual frequency for WLOO from 41 to 36 and WDBD from 40 to 14 on 12/6, 6 days after the change. Not a bad turnaround. Unfortunately, WDBD (FOX40) lost signal strength from a Bolt levelized 72 down to 60 in the move. Engineer says the short version is that the new configuration is completed and this is what to expect. They enabled vertical polarization and said that the changes were supposed to provide greater coverage to the market.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

gor88 said:


> Unfortunately, WDBD (FOX40) lost signal strength from a Bolt levelized 72 down to 60 in the move. Engineer says the short version is that the new configuration is completed and this is what to expect. They enabled vertical polarization and said that the changes were supposed to provide greater coverage to the market.


From the FCC database. It shows the changes when you scroll down: TV Query Results -- Video Division (FCC) USA


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Now that phase 2 is here, has TiVo gotten their act together yet? I've got several channels moving on April 12, and I wonder if TiVo is capable of updating them promptly on schedule without my assistance?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Lurker1 said:


> Now that phase 2 is here, has TiVo gotten their act together yet?


Ha !

I had to report via the Tivo form that ION digital channel 30-1's frequency had changed in Los Angeles on December 20th 2018. Long ago Tivo added a second channel 30-1 and after the change it tuned in but did Not have listings. After I reported it, instead of adding the listings to the 2nd channel, Tivo changed the frequency of the first. Works fine now.

I had thought that only 3 of my Favorite channels which change frequencies, but there seem to be more ahead.

It should not be a big job for someone to monitor the frequency changes. Just have schedule and check it each day to make sure Tivo has made the changes necessary. Quality assurance should not take more than a few minutes a day. Heck computerize it. A simple query of their database looking for problems would take milliseconds a day.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

jth tv said:


> Ha !


I take it that means no. Why is TiVo still unable/unwilling to keep up with the FCC repack schedule and make the necessary updates at the right times? What can/should I do to help TiVo make the correct updates on the day my stations move? Does TiVo really want all of their OTA customers to swamp support on repack day?

Should I hope for the best and do nothing until after it breaks? Should I send TiVo the repack details ahead of time? What have others done, and how long were your stations broken?


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

One problem may be that just because it's on the schedule -- doesn't mean it may happen. 2 stations in my DMA (I can't receive them OTA, but my parents can about 60 miles south of me) were scheduled for Phase 1. Literally 2 days to go before the end of Phase 1, they changed their schedule to Phase 2 and Phase 3, respectively. Given the winter we've had - I would bet a Gajillion dollars that the station that moved to Phase 2 will have to change to Phase 3 before the end of Phase 2 happens. Stations are given a to-do list when they move frequency -- and two of the items on the list are to notify both your PSIP data provider as well as TV schedule providers (along with contact info of the largest providers). It may be a combination of things happening -- with either stations not doing their due diligence notifying (especially since their virtual channel remains unchanged) and/or those notifications not being handled in a timely manner once received.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I can't follow that TV Query site. I just don't know what i'm looking at. Anyone able to discern what/when/if any changes are going to be in the LA area? I know ION changed in December (as previously stated).


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## smark (Nov 20, 2002)

NJChris said:


> I can't follow that TV Query site. I just don't know what i'm looking at. Anyone able to discern what/when/if any changes are going to be in the LA area? I know ION changed in December (as previously stated).


Antennaweb.org I find easier to follow if you put in your street address. There is an indicator for which channels are part of a repack and what phase.


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## retroalli (Feb 12, 2019)

I had to notify Tivo about two stations that changed frequencies yesterday in Tulsa.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

smark said:


> Antennaweb.org I find easier to follow if you put in your street address. There is an indicator for which channels are part of a repack and what phase.


Thanks! Mine shows none scheduled.


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## retroalli (Feb 12, 2019)

NJChris said:


> Thanks! Mine shows none scheduled.


It shows none moving for me and I know that's not accurate. I've been using rabbitears.info


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

Same here -- the 2 stations I know for a fact are moving (after changing their schedule out of Phase 1) aren't listed as being repacked on Antennaweb either.

You could try TVAnswers.org (if looking up FCC documents ain't your thang). 

It's translator listings are hardly accurate (most of the ones in my area moved frequencies long ago) - but the major stations seems to be OK


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

retroalli said:


> I had to notify Tivo about two stations that changed frequencies yesterday in Tulsa.


Thanks

That was on my to do list today and not got to it yet. Maybe after high school baseball opener tonight in Owasso.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

Perhaps this is not TiVo's fault. They may be relying on each station to notify them when they move, and that doesn't always happen.

Stations Moving Frequencies: Let Your Program Guide & Data Providers Know | TV Answers Blog


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

NJChris said:


> Thanks! Mine shows none scheduled.


Los Angeles ? Try zip 90001 here:
When are Channels Moving? TVAnswers.org


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm wondering why other devices seem to be able to keep up with the changes. Did I read that TiVo uses a different method for identifying channels and that means they have to make manual guide changes when channels change frequency?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

TeamPace said:


> I'm wondering why other devices seem to be able to keep up with the changes. Did I read that TiVo uses a different method for identifying channels and that means they have to make manual guide changes when channels change frequency?


TV's, and probably a lot of other devices, use PSIP, digital info inserted by the station mapping the physical channel they broadcast on to the appropriate virtual channels and sub-channels.
I.E., station I work at is KUTV 2, they broadcast on UHF channel 36, but want viewers to know they are still Channel 2, so PSIP tells the tuners that tune to ch36 that they are watching KUTV2, or KUTV2-2, the subchannel.

TiVo tuners ignore all this and base the channel mapping on a database they provide.
And of course it takes time to update the database when channels change frequency.
And, since the database is maintained by humans, they can royally screw things up as well.

Forgot to mention, when a channel changes frequency, all the PSIP based tuners need to due is rescan the channels, quick and easy.
TiVo users can do the same, but then they just end up with tuneable channels, but no information as to what channel is broadcasting on the new frequency, not until TiVo updates their database.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

2 stations in Los Angeles have started advertising "rescan day".

KTLA is moving on March 18, 2019. KCBS is moving to KTLA's old frequency on April 12, 2019. The question still remains why doesn't KTLA keep its frequency and just KCBS move.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

jth tv said:


> 2 stations in Los Angeles have started advertising "rescan day".
> 
> KTLA is moving on March 18, 2019. KCBS is moving to KTLA's old frequency on April 12, 2019. The question still remains why doesn't KTLA keep its frequency and just KCBS move.


It usually has to do with interference. Like if 2 stations had some interference because both were on channel 36 if one moved to a new station then that other station moves too as the FCC didnt want to create new interference issues. This happened big time on the East Coast where one station as example took the money to move from UHF to VHF Hi. There is a lot of shuffling done over there

But I cant really see any reason why KTLA has to move. But the FCC did extensive testing to figure out what station can go where and if stations were being forced to move the FCC footed the bill for the equipment.

edit....it has to do with KNBC apparently. You can have adjacent RF stations be active (31,32,33,etc) as long as the towers are within close proximity and dont cause interference. Over at avs Trip (who runs rabbitears.info and works for the FCC) explained it

_The TVStudy software that I work on for the FCC is used to determine whether stations can co-exist or not. In the case of KCBS/KTLA, the issue was that KCBS (placed on 35) could not be adjacent to KNBC (on 36), while KTLA (if moved from 31 to 35) could and KCBS could fit on 31. I don't know the specific location that made it unacceptable, but that calculated interference would have been the cause._


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

phox_mulder said:


> TV's, and probably a lot of other devices, use PSIP, digital info inserted by the station mapping the physical channel they broadcast on to the appropriate virtual channels and sub-channels.
> I.E., station I work at is KUTV 2, they broadcast on UHF channel 36, but want viewers to know they are still Channel 2, so PSIP tells the tuners that tune to ch36 that they are watching KUTV2, or KUTV2-2, the subchannel.
> 
> TiVo tuners ignore all this and base the channel mapping on a database they provide.
> ...


Thanks for that explanation. So why does TiVo do it do it the way they do?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

No idea.
At some point they must have figured it was "better"?


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## Antennaguy (Dec 14, 2018)

Actually, the Tivo does pick up some PSIP information. When doing a scan for OTA channels not in the database it maps to the virtual channel as opposed to the actual broadcast frequency. In most cases it also picks up the channel's call letters and I even have a couple who correctly identify the network programming such as "Stadium" or "Justice". There is however no guide information.


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## Antennaguy (Dec 14, 2018)

I just had to report a channel in my area that has changed its broadcast frequency from 51 to 20. It would certainly help if the form to report guide issues had an option for this type of problem. The form is mostly set up for cable customers. I filled in the line with something like "channel 65-1 labeled KTFN actually shows nothing". The only way to explain that the real UHF frequency has changed is in the comments box. Most casual OTA viewers do not even understand the difference between virtual and actual broadcast channels. 
I also added that most of the channel assignments for Juarez, Mexico are wrong. About a year ago most Mexican stations changed their virtual channel assignment so that all the affiliates of the same network across the country show on the same virtual channel. It would be like every CBS station in the US showing as 2-1, all NBC on 4-1, etc. Not a bad idea actually. In addition to that Mexican stations along the border are shifting to actual frequencies below 37 to accommodate our changes. I could understand if Tivo simply did not support Mexican OTA reception but if it is going to be in the channel line-up it should not all be useless.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

One of the channels I record, KTLA is changing frequencies on March 18, 2019. Tribune Media | KTLA 5 Rescan Day is March 18

The Tivo website says all I have to do is rescan. OTA Channel Rescan

Tivo's page initially misspells tvanswers.org, strike one, (though the link works). But tvanswers doe Not have the exact day KTLA will change, strike two.

And as far as I know that rescanning with Tivo will add a channel but all the listings will say To Be Announced so nothing will be recorded, strike three.

How can they be so bad at this ?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Any downside to rescanning antenna channels ?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jth tv said:


> How can they be so bad at this ?


Practice, practice, practice.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jth tv said:


> Any downside to rescanning antenna channels ?


Just any channels you will find without guide data. They can be unchecked after it finishes.


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## Dante101 (Aug 1, 2003)

jth tv said:


> Any downside to rescanning antenna channels ?


Yes. Unless Tivo is right on top of it (which they haven't been in the past) the guide data will be missing.

As an example, KTLA is changing frequencies next week. So if you have a Season Pass for any shows on KTLA, they won't record if the guide data is missing. They won't record until Tivo makes the change on their end. Until they do, the Tivo will still recognize the old frequency for KTLA as being the official channel, and will attempt to record your programs from that defunct channel (which will likely be blank).

This has happened quite often in the past.

However, in the past, stations have changed frequencies for personal reasons. This time, it's part of a national reorganization, and it's being planned in advance.

And Tivo knows about it.

Therefore, I am cautiously hopeful that *this time* Tivo will be on top of these changes, and that the guide data will be there when I rescan.

And then when I rescan a month later for the next channel. And again. And again. And again...


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Dante101 said:


> Therefore, I am cautiously hopeful that this time Tivo will be on top of these changes


I think......all is well for tomorrow's (March 18th) repack of KTLA, shows will be recorded without user intervention.

KTLA is broadcasting on BOTH the Old RF and the New RF. Evidently, Tivo knew that and fixed things. But I didn't. I did a rescan and then checked the Roamios diagnostics.

Old RF 31 is 575000 KHz old per FCC and wiki TiVo says To Be Announced
New RF 35 is 599000 KHz new per FCC and wiki TiVo has the schedule

DTV Reception Maps
Television Broadcast Frequencies (OTA DTv)
I think a rescan should not be necessary. Check the Diagnostics. If 5-1 is showing 599000 KHz, the new frequency, then all is set.


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## Dante101 (Aug 1, 2003)

I think KDOC 56 (Los Angeles) is set to change tomorrow as well.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Dante101 said:


> I think KDOC 56 (Los Angeles) is set to change tomorrow as well.


Thanks for pointing KDOC 56-1 out. I've only been recording "The Listener", one of my all time favorite shows each Monday at 3am, though they are showing only every other episode.

KDOC is moving from RF 31 to RF 12. March 18, 2019 11am.

As of 5am, RF12 (number pad 12, select) is showing a Test Transmission. Tivo has the old station schedule, will need to complain about that, hope they can fix it by next Monday.

I wonder if RF12 will interfere with RF11 Fox. There was a station at RF12 but maybe KDOC will boost the power and cause interference.

RF11 KTTV FOX this morning is down to signal strength of 42-50. Generally reception here gets better during prime time, so it might be okay. Or Not.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

jth tv said:


> I wonder if RF12 will interfere with RF11 Fox. There was a station at RF12 but maybe KDOC will boost the power and cause interference.


doubt it. As long as the towers are within a specific milage (I forget but its like within 15 miles) you can have adjacent RF stations. Here in Minneapolis we have had RF31, 32, 33, 34, 35 for 7-8 years now


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

KDOC has changed frequencies, took about 20 minutes after the deadline to get my TV and Roamio back into shape, sort of. The Tivo's listing for the new frequency "To be announced", "Title not available" . Number pad 12, select no longer gets to a tunable channel.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

sounds like you need to send an update to tivo

tivo.com/lineup

Just explain that KDOC has moved from RF31 to RF12 and they'll change it in the channel list.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

unclehonkey said:


> doubt it. As long as the towers are within a specific milage (I forget but its like within 15 miles) you can have adjacent RF stations. Here in Minneapolis we have had RF31, 32, 33, 34, 35 for 7-8 years now


We'll see, those are UHF channels. UHF tends to be more line of sight and shorter range. VHF travels further and is more subject to atmospheric bending. We'll now have relatively high power channels on 11, 12, and 13. Since 11 and 13 are owned by the same company that gives them a little leverage into working things out.


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## Dante101 (Aug 1, 2003)

Yeah, I can't believe Tivo knew about the switch, but doesn't have their sh*t together. Meanwhile, what I've done for my season passes on ME-TV (KDOC-3) is switch them to 54-1 KAZA. I live in Fullerton, and receive both. Not sure if you guys do as well. Not sure if KAZA did the switch recently or not, but there are 2 "channels" for each KAZA channel. My Tivo has the correct guide data for the ones that are sending a signal.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Dante101 said:


> 54-1 KAZA


Thanks for the heads up. 54-1 KAZA is ME-TV, old shows, in HD, 720p. Some of the them look really good, nice picture quality though unfortunately Matlock still looks bad.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

jth tv said:


> Thanks for the heads up. 54-1 KAZA is ME-TV, old shows, in HD, 720p. Some of the them look really good, nice picture quality though unfortunately Matlock still looks bad.


There are some things that we're remastered at some point, watch Columbo anywhere it runs it, looks good. Tried to watch 'The Night Stalker' off of ME-TV once and it looked the broadcast master that was an old as the show itself. In the age of small 4x3 TVs people never realized how horrible some of these shows looked even up through the 80's.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

eherberg said:


> One problem may be that just because it's on the schedule -- doesn't mean it may happen. 2 stations in my DMA (I can't receive them OTA, but my parents can about 60 miles south of me) were scheduled for Phase 1. Literally 2 days to go before the end of Phase 1, they changed their schedule to Phase 2 and Phase 3, respectively. Given the winter we've had - I would bet a Gajillion dollars that the station that moved to Phase 2 will have to change to Phase 3 before the end of Phase 2 happens.


And ... I'm now a Gajillion dollars richer ... if only I would have made that bet. 

Literally 2 days before the station I mentioned was scheduled to change frequencies, they filed a petition with the FCC to now move to Phase 3. Just another example of how maddening this can be for providers. Despite what it may be scheduled for ... until a station actually does it and notifies providers it has done so, there is no way to assume it actually happened.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

eherberg said:


> And ... I'm now a Gajillion dollars richer ... if only I would have made that bet.
> 
> Literally 2 days before the station I mentioned was scheduled to change frequencies, they filed a petition with the FCC to now move to Phase 3. Just another example of how maddening this can be for providers. Despite what it may be scheduled for ... until a station actually does it and notifies providers it has done so, there is no way to assume it actually happened.


Thanks for this. I take back all my criticism of TiVo on this matter.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

*TiVo users: Here's why you can't tune in CBS Austin and what to do to see our programming*

"the CBS Austin director of engineering recommends connecting your antenna directly to your television to receive our programming, bypassing the TiVo."


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Lurker1 said:


> *TiVo users: Here's why you can't tune in CBS Austin and what to do to see our programming*
> 
> "the CBS Austin director of engineering recommends connecting your antenna directly to your television to receive our programming, bypassing the TiVo."


already a thread on it and it has been resolved
Keye TV 42-1 weak signal?


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

unclehonkey said:


> already a thread on it and it has been resolved
> Keye TV 42-1 weak signal?


I was posting it here as another example of the bad publicity TiVo is getting due to the way they are handling the repack.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Tivo jumped the gun by a day on KCBS.

Had to channel scan to be able to watch it today, to get the old 647000 KHz RF43. 

The Guide Listings are for the April 12 10AM frequency, 575000 KHz RF 31 which does not happen until tomorrow.

Fine, I only have the Evening news scheduled for today.

For me, this is much better than the opposite. My Friday shows should record correctly.

PS. I was watching during KCBS's crossover to the new frequency. Simply the old just went blank and I was able to tune in the new one which was showing a quiz and had the full guide schedule. I had expected some kind of notice before the old one went blank but no, nothing.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Wish me luck, I have two stations changing frequency for sure on Thursday 6/20, (WBSF & WEYI) and one changing for sure on Friday 6/21 (WNEM). There's a third one (WAQP) that's also supposed to change by Friday 6/21 deadline for this phase, but they just won't give a date to anybody.

Not a single one ran any sort of crawl on the tv warning people about this! They did post a little blurb on their websites though.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

WEYI-25 has now switched frequencies 6/20 10~am. Waiting on WBSF-46 to change.

I've submitted a Lineup change to Tivo for WEYI. I have the rest ready to go when those channels change. All I'd have to do is hit submit.

WBSF-46 has now also changed frequencies/went black. Hummm, they switched back after 1/2hr. Must be having an issue changing.

UPDATE: As of 10am today, WEYI NBC25 has changed over-the-air channels. * WBSF CW46 will follow suit, changing over-the-air signals tomorrow, June 21 at 10am.*


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

MikeBear said:


> Wish me luck, I have two stations changing frequency for sure on Thursday 6/20, (WBSF & WEYI) and one changing for sure on Friday 6/21 (WNEM). There's a third one (WAQP) that's also supposed to change by Friday 6/21 deadline for this phase, but they just won't give a date to anybody.
> 
> Not a single one ran any sort of crawl on the tv warning people about this! They did post a little blurb on their websites though.


One of my stations was supposed to change by the phase 2 deadline, and also wouldn't give any date or information. The deadline came and went, and they didn't change. I couldn't find any information anywhere about what was going on, until I finally searched the actual FCC database and found that the station had requested to be rescheduled for phase 3. So, the phase 3 deadline is almost here, and once again there is no information to be had anywhere, and they still haven't changed.

Also, none of my stations gave much warning either. Those that did, mostly emphasized that cable/satellite viewers didn't need to do anything to continue enjoying the fine programming that you depend on blah blah blah, with a tiny footnote oh by the way if you use an antenna you need to rescan your tv but we can't help you with that. It's like they are doing the minimum legal requirement, but actually couldn't care less whether they have OTA viewers or not.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

We had a channel (main feed) change for a local which I noticed on Monday. Called TiVo and on Wednesday it was updated with the correct guide data.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

The channels in my market that are changing are scheduled for 9/7 - 10/18, which of course, overlaps the start of new fall programming. The smart move would be to do it sooner, rather than later, so I'm sure none will.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

WNEM - 5 has now also changed frequencies sometime during the early morning. I submitted a Lineup change to Tivo.

WBSF - 46 went dark at 8:30am, and is still dark over an hour later. Even after a rescan they are MIA. Not good...

EDIT: 12:45pm, WBSF came back up at about 1/2 power on their original RF46. It seems they can't get their move to work....


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

hapster85 said:


> The channels in my market that are changing are scheduled for 9/7 - 10/18, which of course, overlaps the start of new fall programming. The smart move would be to do it sooner, rather than later, so I'm sure none will.


Good luck. Plan for a minimum of 2 days with no guide data on any station that moves, and possibly longer. The good news (for me at least), is that I get improved reception on every single station that has moved so far.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Lurker1 said:


> Good luck. Plan for a minimum of 2 days with no guide data on any station that moves, and possibly longer. The good news (for me at least), is that I get improved reception on every single station that has moved so far.


The local CW broadcast was previously a retransmission from another city. When that station sold it's frequency and ceased operation, the local station took it over, moving it to a different channel number. TiVo handled that transition seamlessly, because there was good communication from the station.

So I'll be cynically optimistic about the transitions this fall. That way I can only be pleasantly surprised, if they get it right, while expecting that they won't.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

I sent two Lineup changes to Tivo for the two channels that were successful in moving. I just checked them up on the Tivo website, and they are now marked: *"Status: Resolution Sent"*

I didn't receive any sort of reply, and they aren't fixed. *Does anybody know what that means? *Perhaps it was submitted to another team, to actually eventually put it in effect, or should I do a repeat guide setup?


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

WAQP went dark sometime between 11pm last night 6/21, and 12am Midnight this morning. I can no longer receive them at all, though I do get a tiny hint of signal on RF36, where they were supposed to move to. So I'm not sure what's going on. They are supposed to change to RF36.


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## cummingsje (Feb 28, 2015)

WNEM still no guide information. Also sent a lineup change request. All other channels seem to be ok.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

cummingsje said:


> WNEM still no guide information. Also sent a lineup change request. All other channels seem to be ok.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Can you get WAQP-49 on RF36? Or are they dark? Not sure how close you are to them, but they are located right by Chesaning.

WEYI-25, Tivo fixed the guide data in 1 day after my lineup change submission. They acknowledged the one for WNEM and WBSF, but haven't fixed them as of yet.


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## cummingsje (Feb 28, 2015)

MikeBear said:


> Can you get WAQP-49 on RF36? Or are they dark? Not sure how close you are to them, but they are located right by Chesaning.
> 
> WEYI-25, Tivo fixed the guide data in 1 day after my lineup change submission. They acknowledged the one for WNEM and WBSF, but haven't fixed them as of yet.


They must be dark, I did a rescan just in case and no joy.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Ok, thanks!

They have fixed the guide data on WNEM as of now also, I just re-ran a service connection and got it back.

So, guide data is fixed for both WNEM-5, and WEYI-25 in ~24 hours of my submitting lineup changes for them. Still waiting for them to fix WBSF-46, but since it;s the weekend, it probably won't get fixed until at least Tuesday. It still shows as "NEW" in my problem submissions list.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

MikeBear said:


> I sent two Lineup changes to Tivo for the two channels that were successful in moving. I just checked them up on the Tivo website, and they are now marked: *"Status: Resolution Sent"*
> 
> I didn't receive any sort of reply, and they aren't fixed. *Does anybody know what that means? *Perhaps it was submitted to another team, to actually eventually put it in effect, or should I do a repeat guide setup?


I don't know what it means but I got the same response for one I submitted yesterday for Detroit market, WKBD. On a previous station, I did get a reply, but a forced connection even the next day didn't load the new guide, a restart was required.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

JohnS-MI said:


> I don't know what it means but I got the same response for one I submitted yesterday for Detroit market, WKBD. On a previous station, I did get a reply, but a forced connection even the next day didn't load the new guide, a restart was required.


In my case, it appears to mean that BOTH WNEM and WEYI's guide data was fixed in around 24~ hours from my submission of the lineup change. I had to do a forced service connection each time, but those ones are back with full guide data. 24 hours is not bad at all, IMO. I did several service connections over time, but they didn't work to bring back data until about 24 hours went by. Then the last one ran finally loaded it.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

MikeBear said:


> In my case, it appears to mean that BOTH WNEM and WEYI's guide data was fixed in around 24~ hours from my submission of the lineup change. I had to do a forced service connection each time, but those ones are back with full guide data. 24 hours is not bad at all, IMO. I did several service connections over time, but they didn't work to bring back data until about 24 hours went by. Then the last one ran finally loaded it.


Thanks. That prompted me to force a connection again. Mine is also fixed, about 32 hours.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

I see my Lineup Change for WBSF-46 now says "Resolution Sent". So I assume that means we will hopefully have guide data by tomorrow noon, if not sooner.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

I wish TiVo would give us the ability to manually input a local channel when needed or be able to change the variables of a channel when needed. That would help with repack issues because then we could just go in and change the RF frequency, display channel, and/or any other changed information to the new information where the channel would then come back in again with guide data still intact, and when TiVo updates it on their end, everything would then be finalized.

Also when there are new stations or new subchannels of existing stations, we would be able to watch them in the meantime, if we could input them manually, until TiVo updates the lineup to include the new channels with guide data. RabbitEars.info has all of the necessary information for every local channel out there to identify to the TiVo how to receive them like RF frequency, display channel, call sign, network, and a whole bunch of other technical information.

I know a lineup report would still be needed to ensure a proper update, but this would, at least, give us a way to watch the channels until guide data can be added plus we could still record using the manual recording option, if needed, by just having the date, time, and duration of the program to record.

That would really help us and TiVo get through the repack a lot easier where we could still watch all our channels even if TiVo doesn’t get every channel updated by it’s frequency change date. The worst that would happen, in that case, is we might have a few channels where guide data might take a few days to be corrected, but we’d still be able to watch and manually record from them regardless.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

suzannesstud said:


> this would, at least, give us a way to watch the channels until guide data can be added plus we could still record using the manual recording option, if needed, by just having the date, time, and duration of the program to record.


You can do this now by scanning for new channels, and then adding the channels that are found. They will have no guide data, but you can watch them and manually record them like you said. When TiVo finally updates the guide, you may have to go back in and remove the scanned channels.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Lurker1 said:


> You can do this now by scanning for new channels, and then adding the channels that are found.


It's been too long and I can't remember if it was both (WMC & DVBLink) but at least one of them allowed you to "point" the guide data from one channel to another. They had guide data for the low power and not the regular power CBS. So I simply "told" it to use the low power's guide data for the regular power channel.


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## Dschelsea82 (Nov 26, 2017)

I filed for 2 channels to be fixed using the site 
Report a Lineup Issue
The 1st fix took 4 days and the 2nd took 1hr.
Im happy with the results.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

Lurker1 said:


> You can do this now by scanning for new channels, and then adding the channels that are found. They will have no guide data, but you can watch them and manually record them like you said. When TiVo finally updates the guide, you may have to go back in and remove the scanned channels.


You can do this by rescanning, but not all of the ones that change frequencies will recognize right away after the change. It can take awhile before a rescan will actually register the station with all it's related subchannels on it's new frequency so if I was able to update the frequencies manually then I would be able to get around this issue and still get the channels to come in plus the guide data would still work because it is still tied to the same entry in the channel list. After TiVo updates the information on their side, I could then swap off the old channel entry to the new one, if a new one is created by the update, which would then have me on TiVo's official guide supported channel entry for that channel. In that instance, no guide data would be lost, and there would be an immediate fix to hold over until TiVo gets their side updated which would keep them from having channels that go into a sort of limbo state for a bit after the repack change.

There is one such station, here in Lexington, right now. 27 WKYT CBS moved from RF 36 to RF 21 on Friday, and TiVo has not updated it yet so I did several rescans up to today. It recognized 27-3 each time, which is their 24 hour doppler radar sweep, but not 27-1 CBS and 27-2 The CW Lexington. All three have full signal when hooked up to just a regular TV with a signal meter, but the rescan on TiVo isn't picking up the first two of the three. If I was able to update the RF frequency from 36 to 21 manually, I would be able to fix it in the interim until TiVo gets it updated where I can then swap channel entries if needed.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

A local station just executed a frequency change for a channel and 3 sub channels.
They've been running a crawler for about a month advising viewers of the change.

I called their engineering department three times and asked them to make sure they advised TiVo/Rovi of the impending change. The engineer said they had advised TiVo and would again.

The change day came and sure enough the channel signals disappeared from the stations listed in the guide.
Did a channel scan and the moved channels were not to be found.

After I ran "channel verification" the moved channels appeared and could be viewed live but, of course, the guide showed "to be announced" for all four of the moved channels.

Called TiVo and spoke to as "lineup specialist" who said they would put in a report.

So even when broadcasters advise TiVo/Rovi in advance that channels will be moved TiVo/Rovi chooses to wait
and correct the guide after we ***** rather that give us a seamless transition.

Thanks to TiVo/Rovi for making watching TV far more difficult than it has to be.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

just4tivo said:


> Thanks to TiVo/Rovi for making watching TV far more difficult than it has to be.


I don't blame Tivo for this as stations have a time frame of almost 2 months to move during the repack phase they are in....and even then they may not. One of my "locals" KSTC Minneapolis was suppose to move by June 21st and even had scrolls on the screen to rescan at noon on 6/21 (dated 6/5). Then on June 15th they filed a STA with the FCC asking to be bumped to phase 4 due to the tower guys having "various delays at prior projects"

How is Tivo supposed to know when stations move?


> I called their engineering department three times and asked them to make sure they advised TiVo/Rovi of the impending change. The engineer said they had advised TiVo and would again.


as someone who was in customer service for many years people will say anything to get that customer off the phone....even lying 

Its a no win situation for Tivo. They've moved stations early (KSTC they moved 7 months early incorrectly) which required a lineup change. And they've moved them after. When a station moves just submit a lineup change at tivo.com/lineup


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> I don't blame Tivo for this as stations have a time frame of almost 2 months to move during the repack phase they are in....and even then they may not. One of my "locals" KSTC Minneapolis was suppose to move by June 21st and even had scrolls on the screen to rescan at noon on 6/21 (dated 6/5). Then on June 15th they filed a STA with the FCC asking to be bumped to phase 4 due to the tower guys having "various delays at prior projects"
> 
> How is Tivo supposed to know when stations move?
> 
> ...


In this instance the glass is FULL... I know the head engineer and he has ALWAYS done EXACTLY what he said he will do in the past.

Instead of blaming an individual who does his job and seeing that his viewers can view his channels you might direct your cynicism toward TiVo/Rovi who prove constantly that their customers exist for the convenience of the company instead of the other way around.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

I had four stations move total. Two tried the day before their final phase day (last week Thursday) Only one of those was successful the first try (WEYI), the other (WBSF) failed due to whatever (bad transmission line to antenna), and then changed on the FINAL phase day, last Friday. They still don't have the proper transmission line, so are at 1/2 power and filed a STA to be allowed to replace the line with the proper one, and then jack their signal back up.

Of the last two moving, one (WNEM) successfully changed sometime early morning of the last day, last Friday apparently with no issues. The other one (WAQP) waited until almost 12 midnight, last second, of the last day, and went DARK. It's still dark, or running at such low power I can't find anybody that can still pick them up. Turns out their new RF36 antenna was constructed defective and they didn't know before they tried switching. They have now entered a STA with the FCC, and who knows when they'll actually go live again after replacement/repairs.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

just4tivo said:


> A local station just executed a frequency change for a channel and 3 sub channels.
> They've been running a crawler for about a month advising viewers of the change.
> 
> I called their engineering department three times and asked them to make sure they advised TiVo/Rovi of the impending change. The engineer said they had advised TiVo and would again.
> ...


What did you run to do "channel verification" that made them appear, if it is other than a rescan?

It sounds like something I haven't done yet.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

suzannesstud said:


> What did you run to do "channel verification" that made them appear, if it is other than a rescan?
> 
> It sounds like something I haven't done yet.


I'm NOT running Hydra...

TiVo button... settings... channel settings... antenna channel scan... verify antenna channels

Don't know why it worked but it did. Maybe because the "moved channels" had the same numbers and ID only the frequency was changed?


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

just4tivo said:


> Instead of blaming an individual who does his job and seeing that his viewers can view his channels


I bet most people had no idea (or wouldn't care) that the station changed frequencies because they are not on OTA so they turned on their TV today and saw the channel as normal. Most who use OTA just rescanned their converter box or TV. 
How many people in your market do you think use a Tivo for OTA?



> you might direct your cynicism toward TiVo/Rovi who prove constantly that their customers exist for the convenience of the company instead of the other way around.


I'm just saying there is a lot of variations in when channels move. Even when they put ads and scrolls saying "scan at ______" and it doesnt go as planned? Its just TV. Submit a lineup change and in a day or so it will be fixed.

As someone who uses both Tivo and the cable companies DVR (due to the cable company being an IPTV provider I HAVE to use their receivers) if that was the worst thing that happened (having no guide info for a couple days on a channel) I'd be happy. But its just TV and in todays day and age if I miss a program I'm sure its either repeated or on the internet somewhere for viewing 
(the reason I have cable is cable and internet is included in rent at the apartment and the market I live in has only 2 TV stations in it)


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> I bet most people had no idea (or wouldn't care) that the station changed frequencies because they are not on OTA so they turned on their TV today and saw the channel as normal. Most who use OTA just rescanned their converter box or TV.
> How many people in your market do you think use a Tivo for OTA?


One or thousands the problem is real whether it applies to you or not. We all butter our own bread.
No need to throw my bread in the trash.

I posted regarding a specific situation I monitored from beginning to end NOT a generality.

The broadcaster notified TiVo/Rovi on three occasions and executed the frequency change exactly on time. What more can the broadcaster do?

I never paid the OTA broadcaster for their services or programming but I did pay TiVo for their services and they failed to reflect the frequency change in the guide on time when notified three times in advance... and it's been two days.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

just4tivo said:


> I'm NOT running Hydra...
> 
> TiVo button... settings... channel settings... antenna channel scan... verify antenna channels
> 
> Don't know why it worked but it did. Maybe because the "moved channels" had the same numbers and ID only the frequency was changed?


I don't have the verify antenna channels option. I'm using a Premier Series4 with the HD menus UI, and I have settings... channels... channel scan... scan for channels or delete previously scanned channels. No other options exist. Maybe my model doesn't have that option. I'm also on 20.7.4 software.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

just4tivo said:


> One or thousands the problem is real whether it applies to you or not.


Its happened to me already a few times and I just submit a lineup change and usually in a couple of business days its fixed. 
-when Tivo decided to move KSTC from RF45 to RF30 7 months early even though as of today they are still on RF45
-when analog translator (yes Minnesota still has them) upgraded to digital. Before Rovi took over I was able to have a guide info on said channel on my TivoHD but when Rovi took over it was gone. When they flash cut I could get them again and on both Tivo's (Roamio and TivoHD)
-the translator farm about 30 miles west of where I live now moved stations due to the repack AND in some cases moved programming from one translator station to another due to some stations having to drop power. That one took about a week and a few lineup changes but for the most part its fixed.
-PLENTY of programming changes submitted especially at the beginning of the new syndicated seasons

Is it a hassle? yup
Does life go on? yup because its just TV



> The broadcaster notified TiVo/Rovi on three occasions and executed the frequency change exactly on time. What more can the broadcaster do?


I don't know....follow up with them? 
If they (the station) knew for sure they were moving on X date why not create a lineup change a day or two before the move?



> I never paid the OTA broadcaster for their services or programming but I did pay TiVo for their services and they failed to reflect the frequency change in the guide on time when notified three times in advance... and it's been two days.


I feel I have got my moneys worth from Tivo especially when I had cable and saved on equipment fees and with Comcast the "HD Enable Fee" of $10 a month. Just take a breath and wait a day or so and I'm sure it will be fixed. With that being the last possible day for stations in Phase 3 to move (6/21) I'm sure Tivo got alot of lineup changes.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

unclehonkey said:


> If they (the station) knew for sure they were moving on X date why not create a lineup change a day or two before the move?


The broadcaster notified TiVo/Rovi THREE TIMES over a 30 day period of the impending frequency change and the EXACT date it would happen. I spoke to the engineer that contacted TiVo/Rovi.

There is no more that the broadcaster can do. The broadcaster can not change the TiVo/Rovi guide info.

TiVo/Rovi chose to wait till users complained and resolve the guide problem as a "lineup report".

A competent company who valued their customers would have changed the guide info on the date the broadcaster specified or at least changed the guide info in a timely manner when users began to report lineup problems instead of parroting the company line... lineup problems will be resolved with 14 days.

Whether OTA only or cable TiVo owners pay for service.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

just4tivo said:


> A competent company who valued their customers would have changed the guide info on the date the broadcaster specified or at least changed the guide info in a timely manner when users began to report lineup problems instead of parroting the company line... lineup problems will be resolved with 14 days.
> 
> Whether OTA only or cable TiVo owners pay for service.


I would also like to see them be proactive and know a station is changing frequency. However, I have submitted two reports; the first was handled in 3 working days, the second in 1, so they might only promise 14 days, but it isn't that bad.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

My WBSF-46 still doesn't have guide data, and the Lineup change submitted to Tivo has changed from "Resolution Sent" to "Researching" in the last 2 hours since I checked.

Not sure what there is to "research", as the station clearly changed successfully on Friday afternoon.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

MikeBear said:


> Not sure what there is to "research", as the station clearly changed successfully on Friday afternoon.


tivo must have confirmation from the station itself that authorizes any changes, they can't make these decisions by viewer feedback alone.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

NorthAlabama said:


> tivo must have confirmation from the station itself that authorizes any changes, they can't make these decisions by viewer feedback alone.


That makes sense. So WEYI & WNEM had probably already submitted a change to Tivo, so they got done within 24 hours. WBSF & WAQP must have been slackers.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

WBSF-46 guide data now fixed.

EDIT: I just received this as a Facebook PM reply to WAQP-49:

We apologize for your loss of signal and our late response to your complaint. For the next several weeks, TCT will be making changes to the antennas, which may cause a loss of signal. However, the good news is that these changes will improve the quality and reach with the Gospel. Please be patient, and thanks for being so loyal to TCT. Have a blessed day!


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

I just received this from Tivo, though I still can't receive WAQP-49 at the moment due to their antenna issue. I have confirmed with some others closer to their tower, that they are in fact up and broadcasting, even though at a much lower power:

• Frequencies for WAQP 49.1-49.3 have been updated to 36.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

Channel Repack in Dallas June 21 2019, is a major mess. It is almost a week now; but many of the OTA stations are getting things fixed.

TiVo Bolt VOX, does not handle any of it well at all. There needs to be a clear cut way to actually delete all the scanned channels and programming information and do a complete "guided setup", while keeping the recordings in the box.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

TexasDVR said:


> Channel Repack in Dallas June 21 2019, is a major mess. It is almost a week now; but many of the OTA stations are getting things fixed.
> 
> TiVo Bolt VOX, does not handle any of it well at all. There needs to be a clear cut way to actually delete all the scanned channels and programming information and do a complete "guided setup", while keeping the recordings in the box.


That's odd, I've redone my Guided setup on my Roamio at least 10 times over the last week due to the repack, rebooted, re-ran network connection, etc and I never affected _*any*_ recordings. They are all still there.

I'm still not running Hydra, if that makes any difference. But doubt that it does.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Channels frequency change 6/21/19. broadcaster notified TiVo in advance of the change.

Sure enough 6/21/19 channel signals disappeared. Managed to get the TiVo tuners to acquire the channels at new frequency but the guide info wasn't there.

Contacted lineup specialist(?) and placed a report.

Received an email 6/26/19 that the lineup issue was resolved.

6/27/19 lineup issue still there... no program info for channels at new frequency. "To be announced"

Guess I'm on the wrong side of the international dateline and will have to wait another day?


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

just4tivo said:


> Channels frequency change 6/21/19. broadcaster notified TiVo in advance of the change.
> 
> Sure enough 6/21/19 channel signals disappeared. Managed to get the TiVo tuners to acquire the channels at new frequency but the guide info wasn't there.
> 
> ...


Here's the emails I received from Tivo for my lineup changes. try their solutions and see if you get guide data now. You may also have to RE-select the original channels in your Channel List AFTER doing the below, as the guide data would NOT be attached to the scanned in * channels you been watching before the fix:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for contacting TiVo's Channel Lineup Department.

We are glad to inform you that your channel lineup request has been completed. Your TiVo will automatically receive the updated lineup within 24 hours. If you do not see the updated lineup after this time please try the following:

Connect to the TiVo service. To perform a service connection, please see How to Force a Connection to the TiVo Service. Tivo Customer Support Community

Followed by a restart. To restart, please see How to Restart or Powercycle a TiVo Device. Tivo Customer Support Community
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try the above solutions from my Tivo Lineup changes


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

Does any one know how to keep the recordings and delete all the channels, favorites, guide data, and all data except the recordings so a "clean guided set up" can begin?


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

MikeBear said:


> Here's the emails I received from Tivo for my lineup changes. try their solutions and see if you get guide data now. You may also have to RE-select the original channels in your Channel List AFTER doing the below, as the guide data would NOT be attached to the scanned in * channels you been watching before the fix:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for contacting TiVo's Channel Lineup Department.
> 
> ...


Same email I got but the correction wasn't in the stream till 5 minutes ago. All is well... for now... I hope... maybe


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

To reiterate what MikeBear said, you pretty much have to go into the channel list and sort out the mess for yourself.

My experience was that each channel was listed 3 times by the PSIP or advertised channel number:
*The original listing the guide used to be attached to
*The listing the Tivo found by channel scanning, marked with * and no guide.
*The new listing with guide data.

As Tivo won't admit there is an RF channel number, you have to experiment and determine which listing has both video content and guide information, and eliminate two listings. Repeat for each subchannel. All this is after you wait a day or so for the third listing to be added as the Tivo "lineup correction."

However. The antenna signal strength option can help as it does include the RF channel number.

But the process sucks as it depends on Tivo supplying the correct new listing and you personally eliminating the two wrong, obsolete listings.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

TexasDVR said:


> Does any one know how to keep the recordings and delete all the channels, favorites, guide data, and all data except the recordings so a "clean guided set up" can begin?


Repeat Guided Setup. Or. With TE3, move all recordings to your computer, run a C&DE, then copy the content back. Won't work if your content is copy protected or you are running TE4. As you may have noticed, GS doesn't erase everything.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

Guess I just do not get it.

Channel Listings, Clear does not let me delete them. Only allows me to clear the ones with *

Guided Setup. I think I have done that three times now. Basically, it just produces the same incorrect or incomplete information. Any old station that has a new RF does not have any program data.

For Example: There are two sets of 7-1 channels (two different RF's), neither have been active in the Dallas area for a long time and I cannot get rid of them.

Station 58-1, I finally got TiVo recognize the new correct RF to produce both picture and sound, but cannot get the program data to appear to set up one-pass options. It has been that way for a few days.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

TexasDVR said:


> Guess I just do not get it.
> 
> Channel Listings, Clear does not let me delete them. Only allows me to clear the ones with *
> 
> For Example: There are two sets of 7-1 channels (two different RF's), neither have been active in the Dallas area for a long time and I cannot get rid of them.


I never understood it either. I'm in the NYC area and there are channels still listed that have not existed in years. The problem is these subchannels move around. Tivo eventually fixes them but never removes the old listing so there is so much garbage lying around. Also, I have always assumed that channels with a star (*) are channels that my antenna has picked up but did not match any channels in the Tivo list. However some of these star channels I can tune to and it says No Signal. I'm lost.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

TexasDVR said:


> Guess I just do not get it.


TiVo Corporation does not get it. The repack has been going on for a year now and they are still handling it very poorly. 3 phases botched and 7 more to go.

Before Rovi, the TiVo OTA guide was actually pretty good. Maybe a handful of bogus channels. Post-Rovi, my OTA channel list is at least 90% nonexistent, duplicate, or erroneous channels. Figuring out which channels to enable or disable took several painful hours.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

TexasDVR said:


> Guess I just do not get it.
> 
> Channel Listings, Clear does not let me delete them. Only allows me to clear the ones with *
> 
> ...


You can deselect them from the "My Channel" list. Then they don't appear in channel up/down sequence.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

JohnS-MI said:


> You can deselect them from the "My Channel" list. Then they don't appear in channel up/down sequence.


If your guide is set to "All" (not the default), then the channel list checked channels are ignored. The default guide setting of "My Channels" will follow the checked channels. I noticed that the last two updates from TiVo do not check the added channels on my cable feed. Probably feedback from users getting upset with new channels added.

My guide has only been set to "Favorites" since forever.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

So far nothing works. 

This is the same problem I had with 5-1 NBC with the Repack Phase 2 a couple of years ago with a different TiV0. The only thing that would fix it was clear and delete everything and force the format hard drive to clear it all out and start over.

I have no idea if "clear and delete everything" will format the hard drive or not on the new TiVo?

The TiVo on screen instructions provide zero information.

This is the heart of the problem: 

Old Channels like 58-1 (RF 45), still receive the TiVo programming data (but of course it is not longer there). The new channels like 58-1 (RF 21) are there (you can tune to it), BUT Tivo Does Not recognize it at all. Therefore you cannot do anything like "One Pass" etc. you can only do manual record IF you know the date, time, channel, etc.

In other words how do you stop the TiVo from using RF 45 for programming data when it is no longer there AND do you make start using RF 21 and apply the programming data to that specific channel?

If anyone knows how to fix this problem, I am all ears.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

TexasDVR said:


> In other words how do you stop the TiVo from using RF 45 for programming data when it is no longer there AND do you make start using RF 21 and apply the programming data to that specific channel?
> 
> *If anyone knows how to fix this problem, I am all ears.*


You submit a Lineup Change to Tivo. Report a Lineup Issue

Use the "Missing Channels" section, and the "Any other info that you have regarding this lineup change:" comments section.

They'll confirm with the station, and fix it.

For instance, on mine I put it this way:

Channel (Ch. #) 5.1 is missing and it should be listed as (Ch. Letters) WNEMDT
Channel (Ch. #) 5.2 is missing and it should be listed as (Ch. Letters) WNEMDT2
Channel (Ch. #) 5.3 is missing and it should be listed as (Ch. Letters) WNEMDT3

Then in the comments:

"WNEM-5 recently moved from RF22 to RF30" That means WNEMDT is 5.1, WNEMDT2 is 5.2, etc"


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks. That link is for cable users only and it will not accept my data as an OTA user. I was not able to find the Report a Lineup Issue for OTA peeps


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

TexasDVR said:


> Thanks. That link is for cable users only and it will not accept my data as an OTA user. I was not able to find the Report a Lineup Issue for OTA peeps


Say what? I'm not a cable user (OTA only), and it worked just fine for me. I told you exactly how to use it, and even gave you my EXACT example *I just used to get my 4 stations fixed.*

Check that "Missing Channels" box, and it opens up for adding info, as I showed.

No more excuses. It won't get fixed soon until you submit one. So get on it if you are serious.

In this box:
"Name of Satellite or Cable provider:"

Enter this statement:

"I am OTA only, with outside antenna"


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

I finally over rode the input screen. I don't think they want you to report problems


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes the input screen if for cable only, but I over rode it; basically every field. Anyway it is submitted.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

TexasDVR said:


> Yes the input screen if for cable only, but I over rode it; basically every field. Anyway it is submitted.


You'll get an email acknowledging it. You can later log into your Tivo account, and check on its status. Or wait a few days, and you'll get an email when it's completely resolved.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

I noticed on the Channel Settings screen there is an option that says "Clean up channel list". Has anyone ever tried this? Does it just remove all the star (*) channels?


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> I noticed on the Channel Settings screen there is an option that says "Clean up channel list". Has anyone ever tried this? Does it just remove all the star (*) channels?


I think it's to remove any channels added to the list, that have since been removed, yet are still in your list. My list has channels from my entire state, PLUS states around me.

Crazy, and only started since Rovi took over. I just know which stations are mine, keep those checked, and UNcheck any that Tivo adds from time to time, yet that I can't possibly receive OTA.

I just found this:
https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/Guide-Updates-Duplicate-OTA-Channels

And this:

https://support.tivo.com/articles/F...he-Display-Guide-Options-in-the-Program-Guide


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

My TiVo box is the Experience 4.

Unfortunately, none of those steps have any affect. Running the "Clean UP" and then rescan etc. has no change on my TiVo Also, it seems to make no difference if the "Guide" is set to "all channels", "channel lists" or "favorites"; the results are the same, no changes or correction are made. There is no option for "My Channels" as indicated in the item 1 of the instructions. At least I have not found it?

Interestingly, on the last page of the instructions it shows a picture of FOX duplicate (the same problem I am having with TBN 58-1) AND the explanation above it says it will add the frequency for to the channel list, which it will; BUT you cannot get the program information nor be able to use "one pass" because there is no program data associated to it (the new frequency for 58-1 RF 21).

So basically, Clean Up channels serve no purpose at all for me.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

TexasDVR said:


> My TiVo box is the Experience 4.
> 
> Unfortunately, none of those steps have any affect. Running the "Clean UP" and then rescan etc. has no change on my TiVo Also, it seems to make no difference if the "Guide" is set to "all channels", "channel lists" or "favorites"; the results are the same, no changes or correction are made. There is no option for "My Channels" as indicated in the item 1 of the instructions. At least I have not found it?
> 
> ...


Ok, for some reason you have some wrong ideas. Tivo allows you to scan for OTA channels (the * ones in your channel list) It allows you to watch them, BUT, they will NEVER have guide data, EVER if they are * ones, and you've checked them in your channel list, and are watching them, because they are not in Tivo's database due to whatever reason (frequency change in REpack's case).

Tivo MUST adjust their data base to say which guide data belongs to which RF frequency channel. Tivo's do NOT use the channels PSIP data for guide info.

UNTIL they do that, you will not get guide data for those channels. Why they haven't done it in the week during your DMA's move, I don't know. They don't move ahead of time, or at the exact same time.

First, the channel must move successfully to their new RF freq., and be lit up.
Second, the channel engineers MUST let Tivo know they have moved.
Third, we end users submit "Lineup Change" and let Tivo know they have moved.

Once Tivo confirms with the channel engineers, (up to 14 days), they then modify their database and attach the guide data for that moved channel.

You then follow their email instructions, and you get guide data back. In MY case, I _also_ had to go back into my Channel List, UNselect the * channels, and REselect the Tivo listed channels such as:

5.1 WNEMDT
5.2 WNEMDT2
5.2 WNEMDT3
5.4 WNEMDT4

Until Tivo fixed them, and until I did that added to their instructions, I did NOT get guide data for my 4 channels that moved.

So, be patient now that you submitted the Lineup changes, and you should see it fixed.


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

DC-area residents, FYI: WRC (NBC Channel "4", RF 48) and WPXW (ION Channel "66", RF 34) are running re-scan advisories for a change effective August 2nd. WRC is moving to RF 34 and WPXW is moving to RF 35 according to Wikipedia.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

There are at least 4 channels in the NYC area changing frequencies on August 1 and 2nd. Do we need to report these to Tivo or are they aware of when these changes occur?


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> There are at least 4 channels in the NYC area changing frequencies on August 1 and 2nd. Do we need to report these to Tivo or are they aware of when these changes occur?


Do NOT report them until they actually change. They are supposed to be aware, but I wouldn't trust that they'll do it in a timely manner all by themselves.

AFTER the station moves successfully (not all moves are successful the first time), then submit a "Lineup Change" to Tivo. They'll confirm with the station, and then they'll fix the guide.

Until then, you can do a channel scan and watch the channel on it's new RF frequency, you just won't have a guide.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

This should be a 'sticky'
Wait until the s*it *really* hits the fan. Then there is ATSC3.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

For those of you that submitted OTA channel updates, how long did it take Tivo to complete them? I submitted WNYW (Fox 5) NYC yesterday. I know their canned email says 5-7 business days. Wondering if that is really accurate.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> For those of you that submitted OTA channel updates, how long did it take Tivo to complete them? I submitted WNYW (Fox 5) NYC yesterday. I know their canned email says 5-7 business days. Wondering if that is really accurate.


I had two of them done overnight. The other two took about 5 days for some reason. They don't do it JUST based on your submission, they also double-check with the station engineer. If that's delayed, it takes a little longer.


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## BadMouth (Mar 1, 2016)

Thought I escaped the repack with only one change, but two other channels are changing tomorrow. One is changing to the frequency of the other! (which is changing to a different frequency). It doesn't make a lot of sense to me because their towers are right next to each other. I hope this goes smoothly.

Thank you for posting a process to wait, then report.


Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

Adam C. said:


> For those of you that submitted OTA channel updates, how long did it take Tivo to complete them? I submitted WNYW (Fox 5) NYC yesterday. I know their canned email says 5-7 business days. Wondering if that is really accurate.


For the Dallas market for Repack 3 took one week.

Tomorrow 8-2-2019, another weekend mess, Repack 4 will take place. I think there are only 3-4 stations basically trading RF's etc. Perhaps the local stations will have it all workout out by the end of next week. Then I will submit another change to TiVo and wait. Maybe the whole process can be completed in two weeks this time?


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

TexasDVR said:


> For the Dallas market for Repack 3 took one week.
> 
> Tomorrow 8-2-2019, another weekend mess, Repack 4 will take place. I think there are only 3-4 stations basically trading RF's etc. Perhaps the local stations will have it all workout out by the end of next week. Then I will submit another change to TiVo and wait. Maybe the whole process can be completed in two weeks this time?


I have 7 channels in NYC that just changed this afternoon. Somehow Tivo had the sense to update WNBC ahead time. Now I have to report 6 more


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> I have 7 channels in NYC that just changed this afternoon. Somehow Tivo had the sense to update WNBC ahead time. Now I have to report 6 more


Do it quickly, since the weekend is coming up. I had mine ready to go for all 4 stations. I just filled them all out ahead of time, each in their own tab. Once the station successfully moved, I sent them out in turn.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

MikeBear said:


> Do it quickly, since the weekend is coming up. I had mine ready to go for all 4 stations. I just filled them all out ahead of time, each in their own tab. Once the station successfully moved, I sent them out in turn.


Just got them all in. The one I submitted on Tuesday was completed this afternoon.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Nearly all the channels in Philly changed today. I submitted a request for most of the ones I could figure out.


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## bbb3o (Sep 15, 2011)

Just unbelievable that TiVo isn't up and on this kind of stuff well in advance.
Large, major, publicly traded company; They manage this kind of thing as if they were just some guy working in his basement.

It's New York fk'n City! Major networks (and all other responsible parties) have been telegraphing these changes for months. Tivo should be ready on day one.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Calm down, it's just tv. Tivo can't move ahead of time, or even the exact same time as the stations, as they can't confirm exactly when a station moves, until somebody tells them. That's because not all moves are successful. There's tons of things that have to happen perfectly for a station to move. It's NOT simply a case of "turning a dial to another frequency". New towers, new antennas, new transmitters, etc, etc.

I had only had 4 stations move in my DMA, and *3* were unsuccessful the first time they tried to move, which delayed things.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

After I sent their incorrect lineup info in, a week later they say I am wrong about the lineup and to prove with pictures-which I just did.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

MikeBear said:


> Calm down, it's just tv. Tivo can't move ahead of time, or even the exact same time as the stations, as they can't confirm exactly when a station moves, until somebody tells them. That's because not all moves are successful. There's tons of things that have to happen perfectly for a station to move. It's NOT simply a case of "turning a dial to another frequency". New towers, new antennas, new transmitters, etc, etc.
> 
> I had only had 4 stations move in my DMA, and *3* were unsuccessful the first time they tried to move, which delayed things.


Actually Tivo could have handled this very easily by creating duplicate guide channels with the new frequency and the same guide data. Then send a message stating to go into the channel list and select the alternate channel once the current one stops working. Yes it would require some work on the customer's part, but not any less than what people are doing now by having to scan for channels and/or file reports.

Actually if the software was smarter it would automatically match up the scanned channels with the channels in the guide. That's how many TVs handle this.


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## pj1983 (Dec 26, 2016)

morac said:


> Actually Tivo could have handled this very easily by creating duplicate guide channels with the new frequency and the same guide data. Then send a message stating to go into the channel list and select the alternate channel once the current one stops working. Yes it would require some work on the customer's part, but not any less than what people are doing now by having to scan for channels and/or file reports.
> 
> Actually if the software was smarter it would automatically match up the scanned channels with the channels in the guide. That's how many TVs handle this.


I think Verizon tried to do something like this in the DC market; about a week ago, duplicate channels for the four major networks (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC) showed up in the guide on my TiVos connected to FiOS. However, they disappeared before the repack changes happened.

I'm still fiddling with my Roamio OTA, so it should be interesting to see if the frequency (and, perhaps, transmitter antenna) change improved the signal strength on a couple of the channels here that were previously marginal.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

pj1983 said:


> it should be interesting to see if the frequency (and, perhaps, transmitter antenna) change improved the signal strength on a couple of the channels here that were previously marginal.


I am receiving an improved signal on every single channel that has moved so far. The improvement is HUGE on a couple channels, they went from marginal/unwatchable to rock solid.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

morac said:


> Actually Tivo could have handled this very easily by creating duplicate guide channels with the new frequency and the same guide data.


Wouldn't that break all the season passes? How would Tivo know which frequency to record? Can Tivo software even have the same channel point to two different frequencies? Wouldn't that guide change have to be done by hand at Tivo for every single zip code? And then done again to revert things back to normal? So people would change their season passes to the new channel, then have to change them back later? How is that better than the current solution?

What if the season pass wasn't tied to a specific channel? Would Tivo just record the lower channel number regardless if there was a signal there or not?

What if one of the channels was moving to a frequency that had previously been occupied by a different channel? Now you've got two channels with different guide data pointing to the same frequency. Can the Tivo software handle that?

I don't think that solution is nearly as easy as it first appears, and would make Tivo do twice as much work (and maybe a lot more if a software upgrade is needed) when they've shown they can't perform the work they already have. I think the only solution is to just suck it up -- it's not like this is going to happen often.


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## bbb3o (Sep 15, 2011)

MikeBear said:


> Calm down, it's just tv. Tivo can't move ahead of time, or even the exact same time as the stations, as they can't confirm exactly when a station moves, until somebody tells them. That's because not all moves are successful. There's tons of things that have to happen perfectly for a station to move. It's NOT simply a case of "turning a dial to another frequency". New towers, new antennas, new transmitters, etc, etc.
> 
> I had only had 4 stations move in my DMA, and *3* were unsuccessful the first time they tried to move, which delayed things.


They absolutely could handle this better.
"Unil somebody tells them"? LOL
They should be actively asking the question every single day. (FCC, etc)
Instead, they throw it to customers to deal with it, and then 'let them know'.
If the burden is to be upon the customer, then they should have a feature built into the OS to allow for 'correction / submission' from the channel lineup screen. Or any otrher number of ways this could all be handled by them much better. People pay them for this.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

bbb3o said:


> Just unbelievable that TiVo isn't up and on this kind of stuff well in advance.
> Large, major, publicly traded company; They manage this kind of thing as if they were just some guy working in his basement.


That's probably exactly what it is. I imagine one guy working from home, pulling these requests from a workflow queue. As far as I can tell, once the update is made in the backend there is no need to force a connection to the Tivo. It just happens.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

morac said:


> Actually Tivo could have handled this very easily by creating duplicate guide channels with the new frequency and the same guide data.


Other DVR (software) simply lets you "map" one channel's schedule to another channel. Here I used to map the low power CBS (schedule) to the high power CBS channel.


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## compuguy (Aug 18, 2014)

pj1983 said:


> I think Verizon tried to do something like this in the DC market; about a week ago, duplicate channels for the four major networks (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC) showed up in the guide on my TiVos connected to FiOS. However, they disappeared before the repack changes happened.
> 
> I'm still fiddling with my Roamio OTA, so it should be interesting to see if the frequency (and, perhaps, transmitter antenna) change improved the signal strength on a couple of the channels here that were previously marginal.


I was wondering why that happened a week or two ago. That explains it (channel repacks).


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## NiteCourt (Mar 31, 2005)

Today at 6:30 PM my local ABC and FOX OTA affiliate switched frequencies with me losing 7 channels even after re-doing guided setup. Was hoping it would be updated but sadly not. Submitted a line-up change. Did a rescan on my Amazon Recast and the program guide is working beautifully with the new frequencies. And I actually get more channels with the Recast since it will keep the Canadian stations with guide data. If I add the those stations to the TiVo I can tune them but get no guide data.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

pj1983 said:


> I think Verizon tried to do something like this in the DC market; about a week ago, duplicate channels for the four major networks (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC) showed up in the guide on my TiVos connected to FiOS. However, they disappeared before the repack changes happened.
> 
> I'm still fiddling with my Roamio OTA, so it should be interesting to see if the frequency (and, perhaps, transmitter antenna) change improved the signal strength on a couple of the channels here that were previously marginal.


What you saw should not be from the repack but someone giving TiVo wrong data. The channels were the numbers assigned to them for an adjacent market. Fios does not supply guide data for TiVo.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

NiteCourt said:


> Did a rescan on my Amazon Recast and the program guide is working beautifully with the new frequencies.


So how is it that the Recast can match the program guide data to the new frequency, yet Tivo needs manual intervention (via customer reporting) and a minimum of 2 days to do this? I submitted my reports on Thursday. So far 5 of the 7 channels have been updated.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

It appears the Dallas Repack 4 is good for most devices, but not the TiVo. Since TiVo has not really completed any of the required manual clean ups for Dallas in a couple of years it is a pretty big mess.

I will work on getting about 6 of the stations critical to me corrected at TiVo, submit the forms etc. There are about 25 or more stations that need to be fixed as well, but simply do not have the hours required to do it.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

Ok, submitted the first group of channel request changes. One thing I did notice they have changed the input form for channel lineup corrections, now it is much easier to work with for OTA peeps and not so hard wired for just cable peeps.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

morac said:


> Nearly all the channels in Philly changed today. I submitted a request for most of the ones I could figure out.


Thanks for this!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Hartford-New Haven is a mess right now. The moved channels showed up in the channel selection screen, and I selected them and de-selected the old ones, but they haven't moved the guide data over yet. I forced a connection and nothing. I guess I'll wait and see. I don't have anything terribly important in the next day or two.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

TexasDVR said:


> Ok, submitted the first group of channel request changes. One thing I did notice they have changed the input form for channel lineup corrections, now it is much easier to work with for OTA peeps and not so hard wired for just cable peeps.


Really? It appears to be the same form they have been using for years. I'm using www.tivo.com/lineup


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> So how is it that the Recast can match the program guide data to the new frequency, yet Tivo needs manual intervention (via customer reporting) and a minimum of 2 days to do this? I submitted my reports on Thursday. So far 5 of the 7 channels have been updated.


Because the Recast must use the stations broadcast PSIP data to build its guide. Tivo does NOT, as they use their own typically much more detailed and going out at least 14 days guide.

Most stations don't even broadcast more than about a 24 hour's worth of PSIP guide data and that's not very useful, even though PSIP is capable of almost two weeks data.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

MikeBear said:


> Because the Recast must use the stations broadcast PSIP data to build its guide. Tivo does NOT, as they use their own typically much more detailed and going out at least 14 days guide.
> 
> Most stations don't even broadcast more than about a 24 hour's worth of PSIP guide data and that's not very useful, even though PSIP is capable of almost two weeks data.


So for people that have a Recast, are you only getting 1 day of guide data? I find that hard to believe.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Adam C. said:


> So for people that have a Recast, are you only getting 1 day of guide data? I find that hard to believe.


It depends on what the station chooses to send. They can crank it out to 14 days IF they so choose. Most of them do NOT, unless you contact the station engineer and ask him to do so. My local stations only provide a 24hr PSIP guide. I use a Tivo, so it doesn't affect me, but directly on my tv set, it only shows 24hours out max.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

AVSForum has a thread on the device. One post indicates a non-TiVo 14 day guide:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/42-h...dvr-formerly-known-frank-18.html#post58289438


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

The TiVo process of having to manually notify TiVo to update program data for the correct display channels assigned to new RF's is just "nuts". Since the TiVo software does not handle that automatically, they should at least stay on top of major markets, like Dallas, and do this themselves as a part of their service.

"Channel Management" system is basically useless in this "repacking" process.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

TexasDVR said:


> The TiVo process of having to manually notify TiVo to update program data for the correct display channels assigned to new RF's is just "nuts". Since the TiVo software does not handle that automatically, they should at least stay on top of major markets, like Dallas, and do this themselves as a part of their service.
> 
> "Channel Management" system is basically useless in this "repacking" process.


TiVo doesn't have the uplink centers that sat and cable tv do so they can't monitor any market farther than an antenna will allow to catch frequency changes.

I've been through multiple frequency changes in my market and 1/2 the time it tales longer than the local broadcaster intended.

I can see where TiVo would wait till the hammer drops and customers make lineup/guide reports before they make the changes.

TiVo does seem to address these frequency changes a lot quicker than when they add/remove local channels that don't exist in the local market.

TiVo does enough stuff wrong but I think this policy is the best compromise.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

They could add the new frequency without removing the old and the customer could pick which one is in the channel list as a better compromise.

Or just fix their scanning software to get the PSIP data like every tv in the country does.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> They could add the new frequency without removing the old and the customer could pick which one is in the channel list as a better compromise.
> 
> Or just fix their scanning software to get the PSIP data like every tv in the country does.


There's no end to the things that TiVo could do. Some of us are thankful when they do things that aren't totally wrong.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

So Tivo fixed the channels whose frequencies changed. They also responded to my case with an email of the list of the channels they fixed which was unexpected, but welcome. Here's what they sent which I think includes channels I never reported.



> Thank you for contacting TiVo's Channel Lineup Department.
> 
> We are glad to inform you that your channel lineup request has been completed.Due to FCC repack, there were frequency updates for these channels:
> 
> ...


Neither a restart nor a rescan was needed. Things just started working.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

I will resubmit the channel request changes again for Dallas at the end of the week. As of today these are the basic changes needed, some are in place now, but many are not.


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

As of this morning all 7 of the NYC channel updates that I submitted have been completed. There are still a bunch of low power channels that are wrong, but I never watch those anyway. I guess one day someone will figure those out.


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## TexasDVR (Feb 20, 2013)

TiVo has completed about half of the Dallas Repack 4 corrections. 

Kind of funny, looks like they missed the display channels from about 40 to 51. I think those below 40 are correct now, and those above 51 appear correct.


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## HarleyRandom (Sep 17, 2015)

I asked what to do when it is necessary to rescan and didn't get an answer. Only my Series 3 needs that because I haven't had the courage to cut the cord with the Roamio.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

The local CBS affiliate, WLKY, has begun airing PSA's about the upcoming change, slated for Friday October 18th. They've also chosen that date to switch to their new higher-powered broadcast antenna.

That'll be fun.

Haven't seen any announcements airing on the other locals yet.

Edit: Looks like all but one of the locals that are changing are doing so on 10/18. There NBC affiliate, WAVE, seems to be the lone holdout, with no firm date set.


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## suzannesstud (Sep 11, 2016)

hapster85 said:


> The local CBS affiliate, WLKY, has begun airing PSA's about the upcoming change, slated for Friday October 18th. They've also chosen that date to switch to their new higher-powered broadcast antenna.
> 
> That'll be fun.
> 
> ...


Lexington appears to be doing the same thing. I just saw a PSA on WLEX 18 NBC about rescanning on 10/18. It looks like all remaining stations in Lexington and Louisville are slated to be moved on 10/18 unless otherwise stated except for WRLW-CA 17 which is showing as 05/01/2020.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

suzannesstud said:


> Lexington appears to be doing the same thing. I just saw a PSA on WLEX 18 NBC about rescanning on 10/18. It looks like all remaining stations in Lexington and Louisville are slated to be moved on 10/18 unless otherwise stated except for WRLW-CA 17 which is showing as 05/01/2020.


Too bad they couldn't all do it before the new fall season starts, but I guess they figure OTA viewers are still in the minority.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

hapster85 said:


> Too bad they couldn't all do it before the new fall season starts, but I guess they figure OTA viewers are still in the minority.


They just figure OTA DVR owners are a minority, those live watchers will just rescan and flip through the channels till what they want shows up.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

tenthplanet said:


> They just figure OTA DVR owners are a minority, those live watchers will just rescan and flip through the channels till what they want shows up.


No argument here. I'm not personally aware of anyone besides myself using an OTA DVR.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

hapster85 said:


> No argument here. I'm not personally aware of anyone besides myself using an OTA DVR.


Hi, neighbor!* 

* OTA all the way here.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

United we stand  divided..well let's not think about that part.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Here (Indianapolis) we have CBS and Fox changing frequencies on the 18th and TiVo updated their servers yesterday (16th). The channels have been running banners about the change for weeks and I never even thought TiVo would update their service early...


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Charles R said:


> Here (Indianapolis) we have CBS and Fox changing frequencies on the 18th and TiVo updated their servers yesterday (16th). The channels have been running banners about the change for weeks and I never even thought TiVo would update their service early...


Lucky you. Hopefully the stations are able to change on time with no problems. IF they fail, it might cause you issues and losing guide data.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Charles R said:


> Here (Indianapolis) we have CBS and Fox changing frequencies on the 18th and TiVo updated their servers yesterday (16th). The channels have been running banners about the change for weeks and I never even thought TiVo would update their service early...


Hmm. I wonder if that is why I lost my local Fox station last night? My repack here in TN is supposed to be tomorrow, around 10am.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Donbadabon said:


> Hmm. I wonder if that is why I lost my local Fox station last night? My repack here in TN is supposed to be tomorrow, around 10am.


Probably.  TiVo rep stated they have received a number of such complaints. Hopefully they don't undue the update at this point and I'll lose the channel after tomorrow... and have to wait until they update it once again.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

You guys could always do an OTA scan, and get back the channels that way, IF Tivo updates the frequency *before* the station successfully moves. However, you wouldn't then get guide data, though you could watch the channels.

You could then bring up TitanTv (Like TitanTV) and look up guide data manually.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

MikeBear said:


> You guys could always do an OTA scan, and get back the channels that way, IF Tivo updates the frequency *before* the station successfully moves.


I did that last night. You do have guide data for the yet to be active channel (frequency) and I presume you could set up a manual recording for the old (active) channel that doesn't have guide data. In my case I came home and went to view a couple of recordings and found out they weren't recorded...


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## bleech2 (Mar 16, 2014)

So far I'm happy with the way Tivo is handling this stage of the repack. All of my channels and guide information were switched over to the new frequencies last night. Yes, it means that recordings today are messed up, but I'll take that over how they handled the first stage of the repack a year and half ago, where it took almost two weeks for them to sync the guide data to the new frequencies.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

So I guess I didn't have my Roamio OTA the last time this happened, so pardon my ignorance, but ours happened today so I did the rescan and now all the channels come in, don't have guide data, except CBS. That's the only station not affected. So when can I expect these will be fixed and will it screw up my recordings if I remove the bad channels?

Edit: so this is bizarre. The day in Cincinnati is actually tomorrow, which is when I thought it would be as I had the 18th in my mind. But I had no signal and a rescan found the new frequencies so why did mine get screwed up a day early?


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

mtnagel said:


> So I guess I didn't have my Roamio OTA the last time this happened, so pardon my ignorance, but ours happened today so I did the rescan and now all the channels come in, don't have guide data, except CBS. That's the only station not affected. So when can I expect these will be fixed and will it screw up my recordings if I remove the bad channels?


Fill out as many of these as you need for each station move you had, and submit it. Hopefully they'll get fixed within a few days. See my previous post back a few pages that explain how to fill it out, if you need to: Report a Lineup Issue

Channel repack has begun, and it's not good!


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

MikeBear said:


> Fill out as many of these as you need for each station move you had, and submit it. Hopefully they'll get fixed within a few days. See my previous post back a few pages that explain how to fill it out, if you need to: Report a Lineup Issue


Thank you! See my edit above though. Any idea why my channels got screwed up a day early?


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

2 days early is definitely preferable to 2 weeks late, but still not ideal.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

mtnagel said:


> Thank you! See my edit above though. Any idea why my channels got screwed up a day early?


Tivo trying to be pro active, but their timing sucks, lol.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

TiVo being proactive here in the Louisville market as well. Looks like all of the channels changing freqs tomorrow have double entries today; one with the current frequency and one with the new one. Guessing nothing will record correctly tonight.

[Edit: Set two manual recordings for the only two I don't really want to miss. Fingers crossed that the transition goes smoothly tomorrow. ]


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

MikeBear said:


> Tivo trying to be pro active, but their timing sucks, lol.


So does that mean I shouldn't report the channels without guide data until after the repack date (tomorrow)?


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

mtnagel said:


> So does that mean I shouldn't report the channels without guide data until after the repack date (tomorrow)?


Correct. Wait and see what happens first. Confirm they all moved successfully before submitting. I had 4 stations move, and 3 were unsuccessful the first time...


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Most Dayton, Ohio channels are scheduled to change frequencies tomorrow. Evidently TiVo updated the guide data today, so there are duplicate channels. The one that is actually receiving the channel (on the pre-repack frequency) with "Title not available" listed in the guide data. Then the duplicate channel which shows the guide data but has no signal. 

If I'm correct then tomorrow when the stations actually start broadcasting on the new frequencies the guide data will then match the populated channel listing. Hope I'm correct as I have about 10 friends that I've set up on OTA TiVo's and I'm trying to keep them informed of what's happening. Anyone concur with me?


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## ronczap (Sep 11, 2016)

TeamPace said:


> Most Dayton, Ohio channels are scheduled to change frequencies tomorrow. Evidently TiVo updated the guide data today, so there are duplicate channels. The one that is actually receiving the channel (on the pre-repack frequency) with "Title not available" listed in the guide data. Then the duplicate channel which shows the guide data but has no signal.
> 
> If I'm correct then tomorrow when the stations actually start broadcasting on the new frequencies the guide data will then match the populated channel listing. Hope I'm correct as I have about 10 friends that I've set up on OTA TiVo's and I'm trying to keep them informed of what's happening. Anyone concur with me?


I hope you are right. I live in Louisville Ky - when I flipped on the TV most of my stations would not come in. Quickly realized TIVO jumped the gun on the new channel frequencies.
I did a manual channel scan so I could watch shows tonight. See what tomorrow brings....


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

At least TiVo appears to be trying. The first few phases were much worse.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Mixed results in the Louisville market. WLKY and WAVE transitioned as scheduled. WDRB and WBKI haven't yet. Reached out to them via Twitter, but no response as yet. I haven't checked any of the low power stations yet.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Charles R said:


> Here (Indianapolis) we have CBS and Fox changing frequencies on the 18th and TiVo updated their servers yesterday (16th). The channels have been running banners about the change for weeks and I never even thought TiVo would update their service early...


Well this morning the two channels have moved and are working. Not sure why TiVo processed the change two days early (perhaps too many nationwide to do in a day?) however for now everything is back to normal.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Here in TN Fox and CBS were in the repack. Fox is back, but with no guide data as expected. But CBS is completely off the air for me. Both old and new(*) CBS channels after a scan. Annoying.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Donbadabon said:


> Here in TN Fox and CBS were in the repack. Fox is back, but with no guide data as expected. But CBS is completely off the air for me. Both old and new(*) CBS channels after a scan. Annoying.


channel 5 is off the air? why were they even part of the repack? that's crazy.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

The Dayton, OH repack broadcast frequency change happened today at 10:00am. It allowed the channel guide info change that TiVo put live yesterday to again match up with the actual broadcast channel. So less than 24 hours of down time which was better than I expected. Only problem is they also switched the guide data for WDTN Channel 2 but the station isn't switching their broadcast signal until Nov. 8. So they jumped the gun on that one and looks like it will be messed up for a few weeks. If not for that I'd say it went quite smoothly.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

NorthAlabama said:


> channel 5 is off the air? why were they even part of the repack? that's crazy.


Yep

Nashville DTV News & More

If the information is correct, they are low power while they switch over to the new antenna. Which could be why I can't pick them up.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Did a quick check of the major network affiliates in the Louisville market, and all of the ones set to change today have done so. TiVo Guide data has the correct info. Hopefully the next Guide update removes the now defunct duplicates.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

hapster85 said:


> Did a quick check of the major network affiliates in the Louisville market, and all of the ones set to change today have done so. TiVo Guide data has the correct info. Hopefully the next Guide update removes the now defunct duplicates.


In my market, nothing ever gets removed. My guide is littered with hundreds of defunct and duplicate stations. It is a huge pain figuring out which ones are the right ones during setup.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Lurker1 said:


> In my market, nothing ever gets removed. My guide is littered with hundreds of defunct and duplicate stations. It is a huge pain figuring out which ones are the right ones during setup.


Yeah, same here. Not looking forward to it if I end up removing them manually.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

Lurker1 said:


> In my market, nothing ever gets removed. My guide is littered with hundreds of defunct and duplicate stations.


When my two stations updated (admittedly two days before they switched) the "old" frequencies were removed and I had to scan to get them temporary back.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Yeah, I caved and removed the duplicates manually this morning. Went faster than I thought it would. Only had to redo one of them. Lol.


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## Sgtmaj27 (Jan 3, 2019)

Problems with Milwaukee area repack as well. Repack occurred at 1am Friday. Re scan went well and all but one station was picked up by my OTA Bolt. WMLW channel 49 which is a Weigel Broadcast Co station is affiliated with WDJT channel 58, same company. 58 is a CBS affiliate and broadcasts their local news on 49 earlier and when CBS preempts their time slot, especially for sports overruns. Therefore I utilize 49 a lot. the first day of the repack Tivo picked up WMLW 49 as a new station (*) . Since the old station freq was still listed, we now have the guide listings for the old freq (24) but of course no signal; and the guide listing for the new freq (17) has no listings but has the signal. So of course nothing can be recorded. The simulcast of 41-1 is on 58-3 which is correct and has the listing but is only in SD so will have to do for now! I finally notified Tivo yesterday; received a case number and was directed to connect to the mother ship at least twice and restart by unplugging and re plugging the unit in. I had already done guided setup, Twice! Of course this did not fix the problem! Upon checking Tivo Support my case number was closed! I responded rather rudely and requested resolution again.. I can only hope that it will be corrected with time and patience!


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Sgtmaj27 said:


> Since the old station freq was still listed, we now have the guide listings for the old freq (24) but of course no signal; and the guide listing for the new freq (17) has no listings but has the signal. So of course nothing can be recorded.


Until resolved, you can set manual recordings on the frequency with signal but no listings. Had to do that Thursday evening for a couple of recodings.


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## Sgtmaj27 (Jan 3, 2019)

hapster85 said:


> Until resolved, you can set manual recordings on the frequency with signal but no listings. Had to do that Thursday evening for a couple of recodings.


Thanks. I didn't think that a manual recording would work with two channels of the same number. I figured that it would then record from the one that had guide info.

I guess if I remove the "dead" channel from my channel listings and leave the active channel, TiVo would have no choice than to record from that one. I shall give it a try!


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## bleech2 (Mar 16, 2014)

I am in the Milwaukee market too and was bummed about 49 being neglected. There's only one show I watch on that channel so I set up a manual recording for the time slot. This is much better than the January 2018 repack when 10/36 and 18/24 were combined onto single frequencies and guide data wasn't synchronized for over 2 weeks! Now that was a real headache!


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## babsonnexus (Jan 13, 2016)

In Providence, RI market the ABC and NBC affiliate delayed to Oct 22, so now it will be interesting to see if TiVO is proactive today with that or if I have to chase them down. The PBS affiliate was supposed to be Oct 19, but they delayed to Oct 31 because they have not finished building their new tower because of the weather. However, they went off the air at their old frequency in September, so it doesn't matter if TiVO switches early. My only concern is if I need to adjust my antenna because there are a lot of obstructions around me (I have mine on the side of the house at the back on the 2nd floor so I can lean out a window and adjust it, but am thinking about going rooftop to see if that is any better).


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## Sgtmaj27 (Jan 3, 2019)

bleech2 said:


> I am in the Milwaukee market too and was bummed about 49 being neglected. There's only one show I watch on that channel so I set up a manual recording for the time slot. This is much better than the January 2018 repack when 10/36 and 18/24 were combined onto single frequencies and guide data wasn't synchronized for over 2 weeks! Now that was a real headache!


I was actually surprised that 49 was the only problem encountered after the problems previously.! Tivo requested info from me IRT the problem (even though I had included all of the info they want in my original message) Channel number, Name, New frequency. They are problably "working" on numerous fixes and we should see resolution soon!


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## Thunderclap (Nov 28, 2005)

In Chicago several stations were showing Title Not Available in the guide as last as Sunday, even with forcing network connections. I finally ran the guided setup again to purge the old data and download everything fresh and that fixed it for me.


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## man cave (Nov 15, 2014)

I live in Portland OR. Luckily only channel 2 has no guide data. Just says Title not available. Been that way since Friday.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Had a channel move from UHF to VHF here and it breaks up intermittently. Many times shows are unwatchable.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

I'm also having break ups or pixelation. I've seen it on NBC and ABC. I watched 2 Shark Tanks back to back and one was before the repack and was totally fine and the other after and it had pixelation. Anything I can do about this?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

mtnagel said:


> I'm also having break ups or pixelation. I've seen it on NBC and ABC. I watched 2 Shark Tanks back to back and one was before the repack and was totally fine and the other after and it had pixelation. Anything I can do about this?


Check online to see if the channel moved to VHF. Ensure your antenna is capable of receiving VHF signals. Some antennas are UHF only. Try reorienting your antenna.


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## JohnS-MI (Jan 25, 2014)

shwru980r said:


> Had a channel move from UHF to VHF here and it breaks up intermittently. Many times shows are unwatchable.


VHF hi or low? VHF channels are split in two bands 2-6, 7-13 (real transmit frequencies, not the advertised channel); their frequencies are significantly different from UHF and your antenna needs different size elements to cover them effectively. A lot of "HDTV" antennas assume everyone moved to UHF and only cover that band effectively. You might also consider location and transmitter power changes, but the answer, if there is one, is "more antenna."


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

mtnagel said:


> I'm also having break ups or pixelation. I've seen it on NBC and ABC. I watched 2 Shark Tanks back to back and one was before the repack and was totally fine and the other after and it had pixelation. Anything I can do about this?


Some of the stations have to install a new antenna, so temporarily they are using side-mounted antennas that don't have the range of their full antenna. That is happening to those of us in the Nashville area with CBS. They estimated it will take up to 2 weeks to get their new antenna installed and running. This may be happening in your case too.
You may want to check the stations FaceBook page to see if they are saying anything about their antenna, or that they are running in a low power mode for now.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

JohnS-MI said:


> VHF hi or low? VHF channels are split in two bands 2-6, 7-13 (real transmit frequencies, not the advertised channel); their frequencies are significantly different from UHF and your antenna needs different size elements to cover them effectively. A lot of "HDTV" antennas assume everyone moved to UHF and only cover that band effectively. You might also consider location and transmitter power changes, but the answer, if there is one, is "more antenna."


The channel moved to VHF high. My antenna is a large outdoor antenna in the attic on a rotor so I can adjust it remotely at the TV. I already have one VHF channel for many years that moved from UHF back to it's original channel when they shut down the analog channels. Had issues with that channel for several months until they got permission to increase the strength of the frequency.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> Check online to see if the channel moved to VHF. Ensure your antenna is capable of receiving VHF signals. Some antennas are UHF only. Try reorienting your antenna.


Reorienting it how? The station's antennas haven't moved I assume and I had it directed towards them.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Not good is an understatement, for OTA around Chicago, at least with Tivo. There are many antenna only channels around here. With all the movement a rescan will find the new frequencies in most cases but Tivo is showing no program info for many. Even ABC, fortunately I don't watch much ABC. Too many for me to write to Tivo, will just hope it straightens out over time. One channel I watch is gone completely, see below.

Ok I guess there is a law that stations have to broadcast a digital signal through the air. One of my stations is gone after the repack so I looked into it (Comet and all the WRJK subchannels). Supposedly it is "back up". But I don't get it with channel scans. Why not? Further research found they moved WRJK from UHF frequency 24 to VHF frequency 11. And cut transmit power from 15000 watts to 400 watts. Hmm, might get it if you are in the same building as the transmitter? What I am wondering is this, the law says you have to broadcast a digital signal. But in "todays world" almost everything has some sort of payment required, cable/satellite, streaming etc etc. I wonder if this new low power (400 watts?) and crap*y frequency is a way to stay within the law of having to broadcast OTA but make it pretty much unusable so you have to stream or use some pay service to get it. If so I wonder if this will be happening with more stations as time goes by. Maybe I am off base but for me for now goodbye Comet/WRJK around Chicago, I really don't want to watch on the website or pay to stream.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Lower frequencies require/need lower power to get the same distance as before. They got paid more from the feds for moving all the way down to VHF. You need a high vhf antenna to receive them now. Window mud flap antennas are pretty much only UHF


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

shwru980r said:


> The channel moved to VHF high. My antenna is a large outdoor antenna in the attic on a rotor so I can adjust it remotely at the TV. I already have one VHF channel for many years that moved from UHF back to it's original channel when they shut down the analog channels. Had issues with that channel for several months until they got permission to increase the strength of the frequency.


Yeah, around Chicago CBS is on VHF high (12). And can be iffy sometimes OTA. The other major networks are UHF frequencies and very strong. The latest repack did not affect CBS, I was hoping they'd move it to a UHF frequency but no. Other major networks moved from one UHF frequency to another but signals are still good.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

MikeBear said:


> Lower frequencies require/need lower power to get the same distance as before. They got paid more from the feds for moving all the way down to VHF. You need a high vhf antenna to receive them now. Window mud flap antennas are pretty much only UHF


CBS is high VHF (12) for me. Can be iffy but is mostly ok with my current antenna. This new WRJK thing though, VHF high 11, nothing. Even though lower power required for VHF 15K watts to 400 watts, is the watt savings that much moving from UHF 24 to VHF 11? Good info by the way, always wondered why CBS was high VHF by me, getting paid by the Feds explains that I think.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Well, 400 watts seems pretty low. But I don't know the details. Are they a LP (low power) station now, or moved antenna sites? You need to do a little research and find out.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

mtnagel said:


> Reorienting it how? The station's antennas haven't moved I assume and I had it directed towards them.


I think there might be a new antenna if they switched to VHF. They could also be broadcasting at reduced power. I would try rotating the antenna a few degrees each way.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> Yeah, around Chicago CBS is on VHF high (12). And can be iffy sometimes OTA. The other major networks are UHF frequencies and very strong. The latest repack did not affect CBS, I was hoping they'd move it to a UHF frequency but no. Other major networks moved from one UHF frequency to another but signals are still good.


The FCC pays a significant amount of money to a station if they move to VHF depending on the size of the market. I'll bet the station that moved to VHF received millions of dollars because of the size of the Chicago market.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> I think there might be a new antenna if they switched to VHF. They could also be broadcasting at reduced power. I would try rotating the antenna a few degrees each way.


Found out they are both still UHF and are both back at full power now. Looks like it's only affecting ABC now. I'll try repositioning the antenna, but I'd be shocked if that has any affect since they came in perfect before the repack.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I’m on Comcast in Essex Junction VT and I’m seeing some CBS and possibly other guide data issues. Today was the day the new WCAX tower in Mt Mansfield was turned on with a slightly diff frequency. I submitted a lineup report. Is there anything else I can and should be doing as a cable customer? Should I be doing a rerun of guided setup?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I love when I can get pertinent info from people in the know that I can then get over to TiVo/Rovi.

Within an hour of my tweeting to WCAX in Burlington, VT, the VP and GM of WCAX replied to me on twitter:



> Hi Jeff - the old signal (now shut off) was UHF 22, the new signal is UHF 20. We use PSIP data to reposition the RF into channel 3. Does this help? I can get more specific if necessary. Thanks!


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

Even if your cable provider had to make a change in their equipment on their end, it shouldn't have impacted your Guide data. Assuming, of course, your provider didn't also decide to move the station in their lineup. That would be a completely separate issue from the repack, though.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

jlb said:


> I'm on Comcast in Essex Junction VT and I'm seeing some CBS and possibly other guide data issues. Today was the day the new WCAX tower in Mt Mansfield was turned on with a slightly diff frequency. I submitted a lineup report. Is there anything else I can and should be doing as a cable customer? Should I be doing a rerun of guided setup?


As a cable customer - the repack shouldn't have any impact on you. That's an OTA concern. What about your 'guide issues' lead you to believe it's a repack issue in your cable listings?


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

mtnagel said:


> Found out they are both still UHF and are both back at full power now. Looks like it's only affecting ABC now. I'll try repositioning the antenna, but I'd be shocked if that has any affect since they came in perfect before the repack.


So we have a another TV hooked up the same antenna via splitter and has no DVR. The antenna is hooked straight into the TV and I saw no pixelation so it seems like it's somehow my Roamio OTA. This is really annoying.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

hapster85 said:


> Even if your cable provider had to make a change in their equipment on their end, it shouldn't have impacted your Guide data. Assuming, of course, your provider didn't also decide to move the station in their lineup. That would be a completely separate issue from the repack, though.


 Thank you. That's what I thought, but I just couldn't get the right words out. I have submitted issues to TiVo regarding incorrect guide data. I'll just have to watch those and make sure they're adressed overtime. Meanwhile I can always do manual recordings for critical things I don't want to miss.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

mtnagel said:


> So we have a another TV hooked up the same antenna via splitter and has no DVR. The antenna is hooked straight into the TV and I saw no pixelation so it seems like it's somehow my Roamio OTA. This is really annoying.


So, it's a new situation with the station move. Perhaps the new antenna they switch to isn't aimed as well as the old one towards your direction. Hook the antenna directly up to the Roamio, and see what happens. Could be the signal level is borderline, and the splitter cuts off just a little too much for more than a single tuner.

If that works, either get a separate antenna for the Tivo, or get a preamp booster between the antenna and the splitter.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

MikeBear said:


> So, it's a new situation with the station move. Perhaps the new antenna they switch to isn't aimed as well as the old one towards your direction. Hook the antenna directly up to the Roamio, and see what happens. Could be the signal level is borderline, and the splitter cuts off just a little too much for more than a single tuner.
> 
> If that works, either get a separate antenna for the Tivo, or get a preamp booster between the antenna and the splitter.


The station is 4 miles away. Isn't it more likely that the signal is too strong if anything?

Also, the splitter is outside my house, so would removing the cable for the other tv from the splitter work for what you recommend? Running a direct cable would be way more work.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Well, at 4 miles away it's just as likely the the signal is "beaming OVER" your house as you could be too close and missing a lot of the rf power they are radiating. Yep, that can happen.

Just removing the cable for the other tv will not help. You could get a 75 ohm coax barrel connector, and connect the antenna coax directly to the cable going to your Tivo though (temp. bypassing the splitter) . Or if possible, try MOVING your Tivo to where your other tv set is (for a test) and hook it up in place of the tv set to see if that set is getting a stronger signal.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

So, I submitted a "Report a Lineup" change form on 10/12 for a new station (with 4 sub-channels) that popped up here in my local area, and it's still not completed. They did finally send me a follow-up email on 10/22 saying it would "take more time" and because "We will need additional time before we can resolve your issue as we are correcting channel logo issues. We appreciate your patience and will update you in the coming days."

Nothing since then, and I don't get why they can't add the guide data NOW, and do the channel logo's LATER, like they usually do...

I've never seen it take this long, and I'm not happy about it. Doing manual timers SUCK.


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## bleech2 (Mar 16, 2014)

Channel 49.1 - .4 in Milwaukee was corrected today. Unfortunately, the way they went about it caused me to miss a recording because the channel disappeared from my line up and I had to re-add it and create a new season pass. Hopefully this saga is over.


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## mtnagel (Nov 15, 2003)

MikeBear said:


> Well, at 4 miles away it's just as likely the the signal is "beaming OVER" your house as you could be too close and missing a lot of the rf power they are radiating. Yep, that can happen.
> 
> Just removing the cable for the other tv will not help. You could get a 75 ohm coax barrel connector, and connect the antenna coax directly to the cable going to your Tivo though (temp. bypassing the splitter) . Or if possible, try MOVING your Tivo to where your other tv set is (for a test) and hook it up in place of the tv set to see if that set is getting a stronger signal.


Just to update this. I wanted to test if it was getting too much signal or too little signal so I bought an 8 dB attenuator and an amplifier. Figured it wasn't too much signal since my other TV was fine, but it was cheap and easy. Sure enough, it didn't do anything. No difference with it in place. Then I tried the amplifier and have had zero pixelation since I've had it in place the last couple of days! I'm very happy it was seemingly that simple! Hopefully it keeps working. I may still try to mess with the antenna position but that's way more annoying to do.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

MikeBear said:


> So, I submitted a "Report a Lineup" change form on 10/12 for a new station (with 4 sub-channels) that popped up here in my local area, and it's still not completed. They did finally send me a follow-up email on 10/22 saying it would "take more time" and because "We will need additional time before we can resolve your issue as we are correcting channel logo issues. We appreciate your patience and will update you in the coming days."
> 
> Nothing since then, and I don't get why they can't add the guide data NOW, and do the channel logo's LATER, like they usually do...
> 
> I've never seen it take this long, and I'm not happy about it. Doing manual timers SUCK.


We now have proper guide data for Tivo working for WFKB-LD channel 38 & it's sub channels. However, they still need more time to get the channel logos correct.


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## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

I don't know if this is related to this channel repack thing but thought i would try here first.

3 weeks ago Comcast Ft. Lauderdale moved all the local sub-channels to new channel numbers. I have forced network connection dozens of times and did the guided setup again twice, but there is still no guide data. I then reported the channel changes in the tivo lineup change page, but it's been 2 weeks since I reported the changes and the guide still shows To be announced on all of the channels. Does it usually take 2+ weeks for these changes to be fixed in the guide?


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

wbrightfl said:


> I don't know if this is related to this channel repack thing but thought i would try here first.
> 
> 3 weeks ago Comcast Ft. Lauderdale moved all the local sub-channels to new channel numbers. I have forced network connection dozens of times and did the guided setup again twice, but there is still no guide data. I then reported the channel changes in the tivo lineup change page, but it's been 2 weeks since I reported the changes and the guide still shows To be announced on all of the channels. Does it usually take 2+ weeks for these changes to be fixed in the guide?


The channel repack only affects over air broadcasts. Nothing to do with cable.


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## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

Adam C. said:


> The channel repack only affects over air broadcasts. Nothing to do with cable.


okay thanks


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

wbrightfl said:


> 3 weeks ago Comcast Ft. Lauderdale moved all the local sub-channels to new channel numbers. I have forced network connection dozens of times and did the guided setup again twice, but there is still no guide data. I then reported the channel changes in the tivo lineup change page, but it's been 2 weeks since I reported the changes and the guide still shows To be announced on all of the channels. Does it usually take 2+ weeks for these changes to be fixed in the guide?


both times the local subs were moved in our market, they were corrected within 2-3 days after i reported to tivo - report them again.


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## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

NorthAlabama said:


> both times the local subs were moved in our market, they were corrected within 2-3 days after i reported to tivo - report them again.


yes thank you I am going to do it again right now.


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## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

NorthAlabama said:


> both times the local subs were moved in our market, they were corrected within 2-3 days after i reported to tivo - report them again.


After reporting the local subs wrong a second time this morning my ticket shows closed. I forced a network connection, reran the guided setup and all channels still show To be announced. I am going to give them a couple more weeks and see what happens. There has to be others in my area reporting a problem too.


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## Rey (Oct 6, 2015)

wbrightfl said:


> After reporting the local subs wrong a second time this morning my ticket shows closed. I forced a network connection, reran the guided setup and all channels still show To be announced. I am going to give them a couple more weeks and see what happens. There has to be others in my area reporting a problem too.


I'm having the same issue down here in Homestead. I haven't checked to see if the xfinity dvr I have is showing guide info for these local sub channels.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

wbrightfl said:


> After reporting the local subs wrong a second time this morning my ticket shows closed. I forced a network connection, reran the guided setup and all channels still show To be announced. I am going to give them a couple more weeks and see what happens. There has to be others in my area reporting a problem too.


at this point, all i can imagine is tivo is having trouble confirming the move with the local service provider, and since they can't move the channels on customer reports alone, they're stuck - tivo has to have an official response to make the move.

it's probably time to get a tech support supervisor on the line, and explain the multiple closed reports without correction, to see if it can be escalated.


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Make sure you guys are also running Guided Setup on YOUR local zip code to the Tivo, and also try a full reboot. My last channel line-up change did *not* work on the zip code I was using that's closer to the station, (zip code only 10 miles away from me) and had always worked before. However, it *did work* on my exact true zip code for my location. Which technically isn't even in the footprint of the low power station I reported...

So, I think they probably queried my Tivo remotely to see that I was receiving that station and subchannels OTA, and setup the guide based on that.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> at this point, all i can imagine is tivo is having trouble confirming the move with the local service provider, and since they can't move the channels on customer reports alone, they're stuck - tivo has to have an official response to make the move.


Since TiVo updated numerous markets (a few weeks back) two days early they certainly aren't waiting for confirmation that the change is active... in this case many were updated two days earlier (per the original schedule) and others not until later.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Charles R said:


> Since TiVo updated numerous markets (a few weeks back) two days early they certainly aren't waiting for confirmation that the change is active... in this case many were updated two days later (per the original schedule) and others not until later.


just because a station confirms the change doesn't mean technical delays don't happen, and moving early was definitely not due to customer reporting.


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## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

I've never had much luck with an OTA Tivo. 

However, I have been using and OTA HDHomerun Quatro and Channels DVR and it finds and updates all channels as needed. Channels DVR also uses Gracenote and I haven't noticed any guide errors for the 6 weeks I've been using this setup.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

This happened in NE Ohio a few months ago. It took a few days to a week to get the channel guide info update on my TiVo.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> just because a station confirms the change doesn't mean technical delays don't happen, and moving early was definitely not due to customer reporting.


Who knows since they advertised the changes in advance (endlessly for several weeks). Bottom line they choose to update the guide days before the changes were scheduled in most markets and in some markets days afterwards. Bottom line they can and have updated the guide willy-nilly regardless of any "official response"... whatever that may be.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Charles R said:


> Bottom line they can and have updated the guide willy-nilly regardless of any "official response"... whatever that may be.


official response comes from the station making the move, it's the confirmation to tivo from the station owner (not the tivo viewer) that the changes are valid and happening. with the number of changes happening across the country, a couple of mistakes in a few markets doesn't equal willy-nilly or unconfirmed.


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> with the number of changes happening across the country, a couple of mistakes in a few markets doesn't equal willy-nilly or unconfirmed.


A "couple" mistakes is much like your "official" has little or no meaning... virtually everyone of the markets were affected in one way (early) or another (late). Roughly 100% of the numerous markets were updated incorrectly which more or less defines willy-nilly.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Charles R said:


> A "couple" mistakes is much like your "official" has little or no meaning... virtually everyone of the markets were affected in one way (early) or another (late). Roughly 100% of the numerous markets were updated incorrectly which more or less defines willy-nilly.


ok, maybe i'm misunderstanding you - please explain how, exactly, were roughly 100% updated incorrectly? how is tivo not waiting for confirmation from the station itself not an official response?


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

NorthAlabama said:


> ok, maybe i'm misunderstanding you - please explain how, exactly, were roughly 100% updated incorrectly? how is tivo not waiting for confirmation from the station itself not an official response?


It's been explained in this thread over the past several weeks... no reason to repeat it all.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Well, for the Dayton OH market TiVo is kind of playing "wack-a-mole". They switched the guide data a day prior to the stations actually changing frequencies, which created a problem for less than 24nrs (not so bad). 

But one of those stations (WDTN channel 2) wasn't changing frequencies for another couple of weeks. So TiVo switched that guide data back to the old frequency. Then on the day that channel 2 finally started broadcasting on their new frequency TiVo was pretty quick to make a correction.

The only problem is there are a total of 5 networks broadcasting on that channel NBC, CW, Court Mystery, ION, & Bounce. There are different channel number ids involved. 2.1, 2.2, 26.1, 26.2, and 43.1. They all share one channel. TiVo has the guide data properly matched for 2.1 and 2.2 but not for 26.1, 26.2, and 43.1. 

Having a dozen folks I'm helping with this transition I'll certainly be happy when this is all cleared up. To add insult to injury one of our major stations (channel 7 WHIO is having tower problems and has effectively been off the air for about 5 days now!


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

Charles R said:


> It's been explained in this thread over the past several weeks... no reason to repeat it all.


that's exactly what i suspected, no misunderstanding at all - have a nice day!


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## Charles R (Nov 9, 2000)

TeamPace said:


> Well, for the Dayton OH market TiVo is kind of playing "wack-a-mole".


That's a little better than willy-nilly but not much. Here I lost several series recordings as I never dreamed they would update the channels days before they were scheduled. In the past they were always (relatively) on time or late... obviously it has become more willy-nilly.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

TiVo has the Dayton Ohio market finally straightened out. It took over 3 weeks. I have found 1 channel (Fox 45-1) has lost some signal strength so I'll probably call the station and see what's up with that. Also unrelated to the repack our CBS affiliate channel 7.1 has been off the air going on 3 weeks due to an antenna issue. Supposed to be close to having it fixed. They have been temporarily broadcasting on a PBS station sub channel for a few days or so now. That has not helped the situation at all! It's been a rough few weeks for OTA in our market!


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

A bit of a side note, since the repack channel 45 FOX Dayton OH market is broadcasting at reduced power. They are installing new equipment which will take a number of weeks to complete. According to the station engineer besides going back to full power the new equipment will be ATSC 3.0!


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

TeamPace said:


> A bit of a side note, since the repack channel 45 FOX Dayton OH market is broadcasting at reduced power. They are installing new equipment which will take a number of weeks to complete. According to the station engineer besides going back to full power the new equipment will be ATSC 3.0!


You mean ATSC 3.0 capable. NOBODY has an ATSC 3.0 tuner except station engineers. Consumers ATSC 3.0 tuners for the US don't exist as of yet.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

MikeBear said:


> You mean ATSC 3.0 capable. NOBODY has an ATSC 3.0 tuner except station engineers. Consumers ATSC 3.0 tuners for the US don't exist as of yet.


Yeah, I was just repeating what the station engineer told me, that the equipment they are installing is ATSC 3.0 capable. I was just happy to see things moving forward in that regard. I still expect it's a good ways off before we start seeing 3.0 broadcasts and consumer products with ATSC 3.0 tuners. I'm still recommending that people buy ATSC 1.0 equipment such as TiVo's and FireTV Recast DVR's if they're cutting the cord. I know they will have at an absolute minimum of 5 years before any ATSC 1.0 signals go away, since the stations are required to continue broadcasting 1.0 for 5 years after starting 3.0. PQ for 1.0 may not be so great during part of that time due to channel sharing, but at least it will still be available. Hopefully some of the current products like TiVo, Recast etc. will have a way to add a 3.0 tuner. But even if they don't, 5 years is plenty of time to warrant the cost of equipment.


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## Lurker1 (Jun 4, 2004)

TeamPace said:


> I'm still recommending that people buy ATSC 1.0 equipment such as TiVo's...


You still recommend people buy TiVos? Are these people your friends?


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Lurker1 said:


> You still recommend people buy TiVos? Are these people your friends?


Yeah, good point. Actually I'm recommending Fire TV w/Recast DVR for the most part now. While Recast isn't as feature rich as TiVo it's just a simpler system to use and set up at a lower cost (particularly for whole house system). I haven't completely given up on TiVo as I still think it's the better DVR, but it's expensive, harder to set up for a whole house system, and not much good as a streamer. Sad to see TiVo fading off into the distance but they just haven't been able to keep it relevant for the direction TV viewing is moving.


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## aciurczak (Jun 9, 2000)

Looks like the SF Bay Area just got hit today, and it's not great. KGO channel 7 (ABC) has been running a chyron for weeks now that the channel switching date was today (4/29 at 1 PM), so I went down this afternoon to survey the damage. On the TV, original channel 7 was gone, a full rescan and everything is back up and running. Normal 7-1 channel on the TV shows video just fine.

On the Tivo, not such good news. A channel scan identified a number of new channels. But going into the channel listing, there are now several 7-1. The bad news is that for the 7-1 that currently shows a signal, there is no guide data. For the 7-1 that has guide data, there is no signal. Ruh-roh. Looking at some of the other new channels that were picked up, I saw that several other channels are in the same boat. Specifically, KRON 4-1, KNTV 11-1 (NBC), and KBCW 44-1 (CW) have the same problem. The channel that now shows a signal has no guide data, and the channel with guide data, there is no signal. I repeated a full Guided Setup, then rebooted, and sadly it was in exactly the same state when everything was completed - nothing was resolved. So the main affiliates for ABC, NBC, and the CW for the SF Bay area (at least on the east bay/south bay), are hosed until Tivo sorts out the changes. Not for nothing, but Tivo HQ is 5 miles away, so if they have any OTA boxes hooked up anywhere in their facility, they are all subject to the same issue right now.

With these type of problems, what's the best answer when submitting the lineup error form (below)? Are these incorrect channels, missing channels, or program descriptions are incorrect?


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

aciurczak said:


> Not for nothing, but Tivo HQ is 5 miles away, so if they have any OTA boxes hooked up anywhere in their facility, they are all subject to the same issue right now.


It's sad, but that's kinda funny--TiVo HQ is hosed as well, as well as are its local employees.  At least, that'll grab their attention.

If easier than the form, you might try chatting TiVo up from its webpage. If using the form, I just would be basic and general--certainly, TiVo already knows of the issue, and so it's a matter of adding your own voice, now.

Of course, inexcusable for TiVo not to have planned for this and avoided service disruptions (which only are going to cost it more in dealing with customers, in the end). The only "saving grace": not much good OTA on right now.


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

aciurczak said:


> Looks like the SF Bay Area just got hit today, and it's not great. KGO channel 7 (ABC) has been running a chyron for weeks now that the channel switching date was today (4/29 at 1 PM), so I went down this afternoon to survey the damage. On the TV, original channel 7 was gone, a full rescan and everything is back up and running. Normal 7-1 channel on the TV shows video just fine.
> 
> On the Tivo, not such good news. A channel scan identified a number of new channels. But going into the channel listing, there are now several 7-1. The bad news is that for the 7-1 that currently shows a signal, there is no guide data. For the 7-1 that has guide data, there is no signal. Ruh-roh. Looking at some of the other new channels that were picked up, I saw that several other channels are in the same boat. Specifically, KRON 4-1, KNTV 11-1 (NBC), and KBCW 44-1 (CW) have the same problem. The channel that now shows a signal has no guide data, and the channel with guide data, there is no signal. I repeated a full Guided Setup, then rebooted, and sadly it was in exactly the same state when everything was completed - nothing was resolved. So the main affiliates for ABC, NBC, and the CW for the SF Bay area (at least on the east bay/south bay), are hosed until Tivo sorts out the changes. Not for nothing, but Tivo HQ is 5 miles away, so if they have any OTA boxes hooked up anywhere in their facility, they are all subject to the same issue right now.
> 
> ...


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## TeamPace (Oct 23, 2013)

Rarely does TiVo have the channel guide corrected when the channels move. But if you notify them it’s usually fixed within a few days.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TeamPace said:


> Rarely does TiVo have the channel guide corrected when the channels move. But if you notify them it's usually fixed within a few days.


How nice of them--denying significant numbers of people the full use of their TiVo DVRs, for recording and the viewing of new shows. This is how a real company acts, lol?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

TeamPace said:


> Yeah, I was just repeating what the station engineer told me, that the equipment they are installing is ATSC 3.0 capable. I was just happy to see things moving forward in that regard. I still expect it's a good ways off before we start seeing 3.0 broadcasts and consumer products with ATSC 3.0 tuners. I'm still recommending that people buy ATSC 1.0 equipment such as TiVo's and FireTV Recast DVR's if they're cutting the cord. I know they will have at an absolute minimum of 5 years before any ATSC 1.0 signals go away, since the stations are required to continue broadcasting 1.0 for 5 years after starting 3.0. PQ for 1.0 may not be so great during part of that time due to channel sharing, but at least it will still be available. Hopefully some of the current products like TiVo, Recast etc. will have a way to add a 3.0 tuner. But even if they don't, 5 years is plenty of time to warrant the cost of equipment.


That's how the channels changed for me. In my area they switched the channels a day earlier than advertised. It took a few days to get guide information. One channel that switched last year moved to VHF and is difficult to pick up now.


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## videobruce (Nov 30, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> How nice of them--denying significant numbers of people the full use of their TiVo DVRs, for recording and the viewing of new shows. This is how a real company acts, lol?


Who says they are a "real" company?? 
.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

aciurczak said:


> With these type of problems, what's the best answer when submitting the lineup error form (below)? Are these incorrect channels, missing channels, or program descriptions are incorrect?


I'd say missing channels as you provide the new broadcast frequency.

Scott


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## aciurczak (Jun 9, 2000)

As of yesterday evening, all was well with the new channel locations. So 1 day of potential downtime seems pretty quick compared to what it could have been. I wonder how seamless it would have been if I didn't rescan, didn't force a download, didn't move season passes over to accomodate. It looks like I would have missed shows Wednesday night, then could have been up and running by Thursday night without any interaction, as long as it called back in at the right time.


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## RMG2459 (Aug 18, 2018)

spiderpumpkin said:


> I've never had much luck with an OTA Tivo.
> 
> However, I have been using and OTA HDHomerun Quatro and Channels DVR and it finds and updates all channels as needed. Channels DVR also uses Gracenote and I haven't noticed any guide errors for the 6 weeks I've been using this setup.


I have a question for you that is off topic. I am in the process of setting up a HDhomerun Quatro. Right now I'm using it with Plex. For some reason I cannot purchase a Channels DVR subscription. I downloaded the DVR server to my Windows computer, but from there I click on purchase subscription. It takes me to the Channels page. When I click on purchase, I end up in a never ending loop between an info page and the purchase page. I can't make the purchase. Do you have any ideas? I have read this was developed for Apple TV, but there is a Windows server. Is this for Apple TV only?


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