# Help!Tivo wont honour Lifetime Sub!



## Boucher (Aug 21, 2005)

My tivo has gone belly up,I bought it 14 months ago and It has lifetime sub, so bought a mint one from ebay and went to transfer the lifetime sub over and they say they wont do it as its still active?

Of course its still active!I have had it ages and was using it till a few days ago, but they say the original owner has to ring them to cancel first?WTF?

Sky+ Is looking better by the day, Tivo UK....booooo!!!!
:down:


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

I transferred my Lifetime Sub last week with no problem.

Maybe you got a poor agent who didn't know what they were doing.

I'd ring back and try again.


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## threadkiller (Dec 12, 2002)

There've been several threads on transferring subs, that range from, the sub is for the lifetime of the TiVo, so if yours dies the sub dies with it. To, as you've found, the previous owner of the TiVo you've bought has to cancel his subscription, before you can transfer yours. As ericd121 says, it can depend on the agent you get on the phone


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

If they mean the new one you've bought has an active sub on it, then why not just use the new one?


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## Boucher (Aug 21, 2005)

The old Tivo that died had a lifetime sub.
The new one does not have a sub, so i need to move the old sub to the new Tivo but he said under Data Protection act he cannot do it?If I'd have known It was such a hassle I'd have got sky+ or even virgin media box, but as i had a lifetime sub then i bought another one.

Managed to get hold of former owner so might be ok, what a kuffufle!


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Boucher, what location are you in the uk???


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## Boucher (Aug 21, 2005)

I'm In Cardiff matey


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I don't think Boucher has ever explained if the Tivo he has owned for 14 months had its Lifetime Subscription altered to his name when he bought it from the previous owner. That would have included the previous owner notifying Tivo they had sold it and were allowing it to be transferred to the new owner and the new owner then transferring it to Tivo.

If the original owner has never transferred the Lifetime Sub to you then you have a problem Boucher as Tivo will only deal with the registered owner who can give the registered owner's name, address, postcode and telephone number (and ideally account number although they don't usually seem to insist on this). If you can't provide this they won't deal with you regarding transferring the Lifetime Sub.

If the sub was never transferred to your name when you bought it then in effect it is only for the lifetime of the Tivo you bought unless you can persuade the first owner to contact Tivo now to have the sub transferred to you.

Also what is wrong with your Lifetime Subbed Tivo? if the hard drive has merely failed you can replace it with a working one such as the one in the secondhand Tivo you bought on Ebay. Or you can buy new pre-formatted drives at www.tivocentral.co.uk, www.tivoheaven.co.uk and www.tivoland.com or replace it yourself using the guide at www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo/upgrade3.html


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## Rubiconlwb (Jan 8, 2008)

It is my understanding that a lifetime subscription is for the unit itself, not the owner. The lifetime sub can be transferred with the unit if you sell it but you cannot transfer it from one unit to another unit. That's why the old, Phillips DSR6000 which is 5 years old I am still using even though I'd like to have a new, Series 2 unit.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Technically true, but in practice in the UK transfers have been allowed, possibly because there is no longer an official repair option here.

Transferring a lifetime is possible without involving customer services, but as the same technique can be used for cloning TiVos you won't find it discussed openly here.


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## Boucher (Aug 21, 2005)

Its deffo more than a hard drive failure as i have tried 3 drives in it and all stick at boot.
I have managed to get hold of the previous owner by going through my paypal history and he has replied and will hopefully ring me monday as has agreed in principal to ring tivo.

Seems I have had it since Oct 2005 lol!
If not then I will sell the new one i have just bought from ebay which is totally stunning and the chap i bought this one off says when he got it it was almost new.....every cloud and all that.

I will look in to the thing that we are not allowed to talk about here involving some kinda clone, but unless thats no more difficult than installing a new drive from a new image then Virgin or Sky wiill get my money


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Boucher said:


> Its deffo more than a hard drive failure as i have tried 3 drives in it and all stick at boot.


Probably a blown modem.

Have you tried disabling the modemtest program on any of the drives?


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## Boucher (Aug 21, 2005)

Yes I tried that with no joy


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Boucher said:


> I have managed to get hold of the previous owner by going through my paypal history and he has replied and will hopefully ring me monday as has agreed in principal to ring tivo.(


Sounds like progress then. So long as he is the original owner he should have no trouble informing Tivo he has sold the unit and is transferring the sub to you as the new owner (or whatever the process is as Tivo CS will tell you). However if he is a second owner and there was another owner before him (probably unlikely) and he doesn't know the details for them and is not the current registered owner then there would still be problems.

Once the Tivo Sub is transferred in to your name you shouldn't have too much difficulty if you ask for a Tivo CS supervisor and explain about the broken Tivo and having asked around here and it appearing to be a blown modem and hence you buying the other unit due to there being no repair service for Tivos any more.

The other process for transferring subs we cannot reveal here in any case requires network card access and if you had that you would no longer care about your blown modem as fitting a Cachecard or Turbonet card would then provide your Tivo with replcement internet access to the data and so it would work again without a modem. You would also have access to Tivoweb, remote access via your mobile phone and so and so forth.

See www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo for more information on Tivoweb and Cachecard etc. Also check out the Wikipedia entry for Tivoweb.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

TiVo used to provide a paid swap-out service after your warranty had expired. With that, they would automatically transfer the sub to the replacement TiVo. Given that they had to cancel that service when they sold off all of their spare stock, they are really obliged to transfer the sub to a replacement that you have sourced.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

iankb said:


> they are really obliged to transfer the sub to a replacement that you have sourced.


As long as they believe you are the legitimate current owner of the Lifetime Sub.............


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

I personally don't think they are obligated at all. The lifetime is for the life of the unit it was applied to.

I think the way swap out units within warrenty could be ammended on the systems the tivo/sky support use are still in place, you sometimes get a nice customer service member of staff who will do it, but as I read the lifetime T&C's people who are getting the service numbers for lifetime exchanged are very lucky.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

6022tivo said:


> you sometimes get a nice customer service member of staff who will do it.


I think its more a question of them being members of the original specialist Tivo CS team since the early days who know how to do it. Wheeras some of the people who now cover the Tivo line mainly come from a Sky, Sky+ and Sky HD support background.

As no new Tivo has been sold in ages the only thing they really need to support now in business terms is updating credit card details for the monthly subscribers (otherwise they lose money).

As they can't repair Tivos but they are willing to keep running the UK Tivo service I really can't see what they have to lose by agreeing to transfer the Lifetime Subs. I think with determination and a number of calls anyone with a Lifetime Sub who can quote the original owner, name address and phone number and is still the original owner will eventually manage to get it transferred.

However if you are not the original registered owner Tivo CS are bound to be more cautious, especially if you also want a change of owner name and address at the same time as you want the Lifetime Sub transferred between boxes. They are after all duty bound to prevent what might seems as though it could be an attempt at fraudulent Tivo subscription transfer......


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> As they can't repair Tivos but they are willing to keep running the UK Tivo service I really can't see what they have to lose by agreeing to transfer the Lifetime Subs.....


Maybe the £200 of a new lifetime sub to the 2nd unit???? Or £10PCM???

Sky get a fee for providing the CS from tivo, not a percentage of the subscriptions.

I am sure if TiVo Inc over the pond knew that Sky Customer service staff are swapping lifetime between units that are not under the manufacturers warranty they would be most upset as they are defrauding tivo inc out of revenue.

This method of transferring lifetime between units outside the manufacturers warranty is a definite NO NO in the states..


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

6022tivo said:


> Maybe the £200 of a new lifetime sub to the 2nd unit???? Or £10PCM???
> 
> Sky get a fee for providing the CS from tivo, not a percentage of the subscriptions.


In your second para you show why the comment in your first para makes no sense.



> I am sure if TiVo Inc over the pond knew that Sky Customer service staff are swapping lifetime between units that are not under the manufacturers warranty they would be most upset as they are defrauding tivo inc out of revenue.


I very much doubt it as I believe Tivo service is being continued in the UK for mainly sentimental and corporate reputations reasons and it is not expected to be profitable in it its own right.

As Tivo did not maintain official repair facilities for Thomson S1 Tivos and Tivo owners are entitled to expect their Lifetime Subbed units to be repaired then the only way to cover their embarassment at that situation is to allow subs to be swapped on to good units.

As Tivo Inc also know that the S1 units are not secure against Service Number hacking (unlike later Tivo models) I very much doubt that they worry about a Lifetime Sub being transferred between UK S1 Tivo models for entirely non fraudulent reasons.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

6022tivo said:


> I am sure if TiVo Inc over the pond knew that Sky Customer service staff are swapping lifetime between units that are not under the manufacturers warranty they would be most upset as they are defrauding tivo inc out of revenue.


Hmm, I doubt that. If anything, allowing $ky's TiVo support team to do this is harming $ky's bottom line rather than TiVo's as every TiVo unit still operating is effectively one less $ky+ user!

If TiVo were still selling new units in the UK (as they are in the US) then I could see why they would not want to do this, but with the situation as it currently is, by allowing it they are keeping a few loyal TiVo users happy (and using TiVos) which will surely be to their advantage when they re-launch with a new product in the UK.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> which will surely be to their advantage when they re-launch with a new product in the UK.


I note that for once we seem to be in agreement.

Clearly if they wish to persuade people to pay a fiver or a tenner a month for their new PC based EPG service via Nero vs nothing per month for Windows MCE they are going to need to have rather a lot of customer goodwill behind them.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> I note that for once we seem to be in agreement.
> 
> Clearly if they wish to persuade people to pay a fiver or a tenner a month for their new PC based EPG service via Nero vs nothing per month for Windows MCE they are going to need to have rather a lot of customer goodwill behind them.


I fear TiVo will have to think of something clever, I can not see anyone who has not had or used a tivo before start paying for a service via the PC that is already using MCE. MCE is pretty much perfect in the way it displays, handles conflicts, upgradeable with up to 4 tuners etc... and FREE.

Even as a massive tivo fan, and I still recommend it to anyone using a old sky box and is thinking of going to sky+, I will not be paying for nero, tivo software for PC use, when MCE is reliable, stable, works very well and free.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

6022tivo said:


> MCE is reliable, stable, works very well and free.


It's free?


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

verses said:


> It's free?


Well yes...

It is intergrated into the operating system on XP Media, or Vista Premium.

You don't pay for the indepth guide listings that it auto downloads, als othe series are like tivo, where it remembers them months and months on, unlike Sky+.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

verses said:


> It's free?


If you have a Vista PC, you have full Media Center functionality at no extra charge and with no monthly sub. So, yes, free!


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

6022tivo said:


> Well yes...
> 
> It is intergrated into the operating system on XP Media, or Vista Premium.
> 
> You don't pay for the indepth guide listings that it auto downloads, als othe series are like tivo, where it remembers them months and months on, unlike Sky+.





TCM2007 said:


> If you have a Vista PC, you have full Media Center functionality at no extra charge and with no monthly sub. So, yes, free!


Ahh, so if you've *bought* an operating system that includes it, it's free.

I thought you meant any XP user could download it or something.

Ian


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> If you have a Vista PC, you have full Media Center functionality at no extra charge and with no monthly sub. So, yes, free!


Shouldn't that be a Vista Premium PC?

Now as a standalone that's a damned expensive upgrade if you want to upgrade from Windows XP just to get MCE recording features and EPG, but on a new PC Vista Premium often scarcely costs any more than more basic versions of Windows Vista if you choose carefully and look out for a special offer or an end of line that is being cleared.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

For Vista it is only Premium and Ulitimate

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx

I recently brought a Dell for £175 with vista, (keep an eye on ukhotdeals)
http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125420&goto=newpost

Vista uses the bios for the license so no activation required, you can unofficially install any version of vista on the dell mbd I purchased.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

verses said:


> Ahh, so if you've *bought* an operating system that includes it, it's free.


Reminds me of an old joke:

Man 1: Why have you bought over 40 bicycle pumps?!!
Man 2: They were on offer - three for £5!
Man 1: But you only need one!
Man 2: Ah - but I saved over £100! I can use that to buy a bicycle!


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## Gavin (Jan 1, 2003)

6022tivo said:


> Vista uses the bios for the license so no activation required, you can unofficially install any version of vista on the dell mbd I purchased.


Not quite as simple as that

Some motherboards have the capability, some don't. Most of the big corps will have it, but at the end of the day it's no different to the widespread use or corporate or OEM Keys in XP. MS can and do turn them off, they may well do that in SP1.

As I understand it the hack lets you activate without a key code, make that required and if the sticker on the case doesn't match the OS and it drops to reduced functionality mode. MS could push that in there monthly security bundle and not many people would want to have to re-activate every month.

Course that will be hacked too but it's a game of cat and mouse anyway with patches and hacks.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Shouldn't that be a Vista Premium PC?
> 
> Now as a standalone that's a damned expensive upgrade if you want to upgrade from Windows XP just to get MCE recording features and EPG, but on a new PC Vista Premium often scarcely costs any more than more basic versions of Windows Vista if you choose carefully and look out for a special offer or an end of line that is being cleared.


No-one in their right mind should buy a PC with Vista Home Basic on it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> No-one in their right mind should buy a PC with Vista Home Basic on it.


If it is that bad then why did Microsoft allow it to exist.

What are its main deficiencies?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It doesn't have the Aero interface, no Media Center, no DVD player and probably dozens of other things.

It exists so that "Premium" is a step above something!

Home Premium is "standard" Vista.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> [Vista]
> What are its main deficiencies?


This *news article* from PCPro before the Vista launch gives a flavour of its inadequacies.


> Acer claims that the Vista Home Basic - the new entry-level Windows - is so poorly featured that consumers will simply reject it.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> It doesn't have the Aero interface, no Media Center, no DVD player and probably dozens of other things.
> 
> It exists so that "Premium" is a step above something!
> 
> Home Premium is "standard" Vista.


A simple registry change will enable the aero interface apparently

http://www.petri.co.il/activate_vista_aero_on_vista_basic_edition.htm


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Gavin said:


> Not quite as simple as that
> 
> Some motherboards have the capability, some don't. Most of the big corps will have it, but at the end of the day it's no different to the widespread use or corporate or OEM Keys in XP. MS can and do turn them off, they may well do that in SP1.
> 
> ...


I can not find the info, but it is no hack or dodgy key if you have a vista OEM motherboard that is supported.

I can reinstall any version of vista on my dell. If I use the same vista disk on my clone PC it asks for the key before installation, I can continue without it, but it is a limited version at the end that has a 60 day timer.

No requirement to enter the key on the lable on the top of the PC, it just misses the part to enter the key, after the install finishes it is activated on the system page.

I have tried a couple of flavours on the dell, but have settled for premium, which does match the little lable on the top. So if MS did decide to ask for verification of the key number, it would be ok as I have it.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> If it is that bad then why did Microsoft allow it to exist.


Still talking about Basic or Vista per se?  Seriously, they needed something for people to upgrade from and pay for Vista twice.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Vista schmista - I'm still on Windows 2000!


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

I really liked Windows 2000. It was the only Windows operating system that I had that didn't need reinstalling on a laptop after 12 months.


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## Anndra (Oct 12, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> If it is that bad then why did Microsoft allow it to exist.


Because they make money off of it. Who cares if it's good or bad if the money keeps rolling in?


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## Boucher (Aug 21, 2005)

Just to update,

Got hold of the former owner and he is going to ring tivo and say i now own the tivo unit.

Once I am up and running I will look in to geting the old one going If I can.

Many thanks to all who helped.


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