# Game of Thrones S5E03 "High Sparrow" 04/26/2015



## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Wow. Fantastic episode. I have a ton to say but short on time.

I will say this: Stannis saying that Stark was too honorable and that is what got him killed displayed a depth of character and nuance to his thinking that is completely out of character for him.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I agree - it finally felt like something was happening and we were moving forward.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Ah...I remember it like it was yesterday...

"This is all I want to do. All Day. Every Day. For the rest of my life"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Poor Tommen, he's so doomed.

I mean, he'd be doomed even if this weren't Game of Thrones. But this is Game of Thrones, so he's extra-doomed!


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

So the question:

Was Jorah hanging around in a brothel with Hooker Queen waiting on his turn, or did he just land in a brothel for a drink and Hooker Queen just happened to be there?

Hey Sansa, go marry this psychopath whose dad murdered your mother and brother. Because, you know, you've suffered enough.

Tommen is a lucky young man.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Poor Tommen, he's so doomed.


Disagree entirely.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Another out of character moment is when Littlefinger told Ramsey that he doesn't know much about him. 

First, it's not like Baelish not to know everything. Second, it's pretty hard not to hear about the sadistic prick that goes around peeling the skin of everyone, including a Lord, his wife, and his son.

Also, I understand that Sansa wouldn't give a second glance to a man cleaning poop off the ground. But how do the people if Winterfell not notice Reek/Theon? how is HE still alive?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

A question to all the ladies: who would you rather marry (and you must pick one!): Joffrey or Ramsey?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Anubys said:


> A question to all the ladies: who would you rather marry (and you must pick one!): Joffrey or Ramsey?


I'm no lady, but since they are the same sadistic type of bastard, I would choose the one with the better title and home. So Joffrey.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Second, it's pretty hard not to hear about the sadistic prick that goes around peeling the skin of everyone, including a Lord, his wife, and his son.


Just to clarify, he made the son watch, after which the son (now Lord) promptly paid his taxes.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I'm loving the new Sansa storyline. The Bolton's don't know who they're messing with when it comes to Littlefinger. Hopefully Sansa does get her vengeance.

Had to laugh when Stannis told Jon it wasn't a compliment meant when he said he is just like his father.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

So the question is, which queen is Jorah taking Tyrion to?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

gossamer88 said:


> I'm loving the new Sansa storyline. The Bolton's don't know who they're messing with when it comes to Littlefinger. Hopefully Sansa does get her vengeance.
> 
> Had to laugh when Stannis told Jon it wasn't a compliment meant when he said he is just like his father.


I think it's mainly about Baelish's vengeance. Remember, they killed the only woman he loved, etc.
This will not end well for the Boltons.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Another out of character moment is when Littlefinger told Ramsey that he doesn't know much about him.
> 
> First, it's not like Baelish not to know everything. Second, it's pretty hard not to hear about the sadistic prick that goes around peeling the skin of everyone, including a Lord, his wife, and his son.
> 
> Also, I understand that Sansa wouldn't give a second glance to a man cleaning poop off the ground. But how do the people if Winterfell not notice Reek/Theon? how is HE still alive?


I doubt Littlefinger was telling the truth. I would assume this marriage will last as long as his did to Caitlyn's sister. The idea is that Littlefinger gets Winterfell by proxy through Sansa or at least get that influence. Sure it's revenge, but it's also part of Littlefinger's quest for power and influence.

On your other point, I was thinking the same thing, but perhaps his current state they feel is punishment enough?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> So the question is, which queen is Jorah taking Tyrion to?


I don't think he will ever go back to King's Landing. He pretty much betrayed them when he saved Dany from that wine merchant.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

DUDE_NJX said:


> So the question is, which queen is Jorah taking Tyrion to?


Exactly, I think the queen he's referring to is Denerys. In his mind, she is the only true queen right?


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> So the question is, which queen is Jorah taking Tyrion to?


Not even a question. He wants Dany back. Or at least, he wants to be back in her presence. Being drunk, I wonder what he thinks Tyrion will be worth to her.


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## allan (Oct 14, 2002)

Shaunnick said:


> Not even a question. He wants Dany back. Or at least, he wants to be back in her presence. Being drunk, I wonder what he thinks Tyrion will be worth to her.


He might come up a little short.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I laughed at Tyrion being taken to "the Queen". Tyrion thinks it's Ceresi and he's dead. Little does he know it's exactly where he was headed anyway! Wacky hijinks ensure.

I can't remember: had Dany already expressed interest in Tyrion?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Robin said:


> I laughed at Tyrion being taken to "the Queen". Tyrion thinks it's Ceresi and he's dead. Little does he know it's exactly where he was headed anyway! Wacky hijinks ensure.
> 
> I can't remember: had Dany already expressed interest in Tyrion?


Yeah, I don't know what value Tyrion has to Dany other than what they were going to "sell" to her when they arrived. Is it possible Jorah's going to buy his forgiveness by returning to Kings Landing with Tyrion? Or do you think news of the reward for him hasn't reached there yet?


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Anubys said:


> Another out of character moment is when Littlefinger told Ramsey that he doesn't know much about him.
> 
> First, it's not like Baelish not to know everything. Second, it's pretty hard not to hear about the sadistic prick that goes around peeling the skin of everyone, including a Lord, his wife, and his son.
> 
> Also, I understand that Sansa wouldn't give a second glance to a man cleaning poop off the ground. But how do the people if Winterfell not notice Reek/Theon? how is HE still alive?


I thought that was Moat Cailin... Or was it Winterfell and just really ugly looking? 

OnEdit: I see the review said it was Winterfell, but they had Moat Cailin on the intro and it looked like that, so I maybe missed some travel time between Cailin and Winterfell?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

zordude said:


> Just to clarify, he made the son watch, after which the son (now Lord) promptly paid his taxes.


Well, he killed the Lord, his wife, and one son. He made the OTHER son watch; and the other son, now the new Lord, paid his taxes.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Stormspace said:


> Yeah, I don't know what value Tyrion has to Dany other than what they were going to "sell" to her when they arrived. Is it possible Jorah's going to buy his forgiveness by returning to Kings Landing with Tyrion? Or do you think news of the reward for him hasn't reached there yet?


As others have said. There is no other Queen for Jorah. He found a Lannister and he was going to gift him to Dany in exchange for her forgiveness.

I sure hope the Wax on, Wax Off Karate Kid deal with Arya progresses a little faster soon.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Anubys said:


> Wow. Fantastic episode. I have a ton to say but short on time.


Yes! I've been sort of "meh" about the first two episodes this season, but this one really started to move things along. Very enjoyable!



Anubys said:


> Ah...I remember it like it was yesterday...
> 
> "This is all I want to do. All Day. Every Day. For the rest of my life"


Poor Tommen.  LOL



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Poor Tommen, he's so doomed.
> 
> I mean, he'd be doomed even if this weren't Game of Thrones. But this is Game of Thrones, so he's extra-doomed!


...but what a way to go. 



Shaunnick said:


> So the question:
> 
> Was Jorah hanging around in a brothel with Hooker Queen waiting on his turn, or did he just land in a brothel for a drink and Hooker Queen just happened to be there?


I was under the impression it was the latter. He looked like the sight of a hooker pretending to be Dani caused him to be sad. I had the feeling that he did not approve.



gossamer88 said:


> I'm loving the new Sansa storyline. The Bolton's don't know who they're messing with when it comes to Littlefinger. Hopefully Sansa does get her vengeance.


Yes! I think we got a glimpse that she might have some allies left around Winterfell when the woman who showed her to her room told her "The North remembers." (or something like that...)



DUDE_NJX said:


> So the question is, which queen is Jorah taking Tyrion to?


Dani. That is the only one he recognizes as a true "queen", no?



Anubys said:


> I sure hope the Wax on, Wax Off Karate Kid deal with Arya progresses a little faster soon.


Yes! Please, don't let this drag out like Dani in the desert.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Anubys said:


> Well, he killed the Lord, his wife, and one son. He made the OTHER son watch; and the other son, now the new Lord, paid his taxes.


Lord, wife, and brother were flayed alive. Only one son was mentioned.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pjenkins said:


> I thought that was Moat Cailin... Or was it Winterfell and just really ugly looking?
> 
> OnEdit: I see the review said it was Winterfell, but they had Moat Cailin on the intro and it looked like that, so I maybe missed some travel time between Cailin and Winterfell?


Brienne said they were going to Moat Cailin.

I think they use the same sets for Moat Cailin and Winterfell. I've always had trouble distinguishing them...


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> Yes! I've been sort of "meh" about the first two episodes this season, but this one really started to move things along. Very enjoyable!
> 
> Poor Tommen.  LOL
> 
> ...


Did anyone else get the impression that drinking from the fountain was the final test? Pass you live, fail you die?


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Brienne said they were going to Moat Cailin.
> 
> I think they use the same sets for Moat Cailin and Winterfell. I've always had trouble distinguishing them...


They're both pretty dumpy.


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## nickels (Jan 11, 2010)

The new Queen trying to ship Cersie off isn't going to end well for her. We know Cersie isn't going to take kindly to it. Their conversation was a little too friendly, so trouble is brewing big time. 

I hope Aria marked that spot on the wall where she hid her sword!

Isn't Stannis's army about to go take back Winterfell? Sansa doesn't get to relax for a minute.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Brienne said they were going to Moat Cailin.
> 
> I think they use the same sets for Moat Cailin and Winterfell. I've always had trouble distinguishing them...


I thought it was Sansa that recognized Moat Calin, then realized they were ultimately heading for Winterfell and then Peter gave his little "get your revenge" pep talk and she agreed to forge ahead.

Brienne was watching from above and Pod wondered how they were going to go through (Moat Cailin) without being seen and if they went around, they would lose Sansa & Co. Brienne stated it didn't matter because she had figured out where they were going....which I understood to mean Winterfell?

And I agree....they do look very much the same!


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Brienne said they were going to Moat Cailin.
> 
> I think they use the same sets for Moat Cailin and Winterfell. I've always had trouble distinguishing them...


They did a pretty poor job (imo of course) showing the transition between Cailin and Winterfell then, it's not like they are a hop skip and a jump from each other (Cailin is in the 'Neck' at the Southern end of the North so it would take considerable time to travel to Winterfell from there, and the showed the exchange between Littlefinger and Sansa outside MC then cut to the scenes with them and the Boltons). But I s'pose the "we will go around" with Brienne is the clue to the travel compression. Just seemed silly to show Moat Cailin then imo.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

pjenkins said:


> They did a pretty poor job (imo of course) showing the transition between Cailin and Winterfell then, it's not like they are a hop skip and a jump from each other (Cailin is in the 'Neck' at the Southern end of the North so it would take considerable time to travel to Winterfell from there, and the showed the exchange between Littlefinger and Sansa outside MC then cut to the scenes with them and the Boltons).


Yes, it was very awkward the way they handled that. I think the aforementioned similarities in looks between the two locations added to the confusion. It would have been more clear had the two places looked more different than they do.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

nickels said:


> I hope Aria marked that spot on the wall where she hid her sword!


I get the feeling that if a girl doesn't get rid of the sword before her test, a girl will surely fail.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Brienne said they were going to Moat Cailin.


No, they were going into Moat Cailin, Podrick asked how they get in or how they follow (something like that) and she said "we'll go around". Pod said they'd lose sight of [Sansa] and Brienne said "I know where they are going". The suggestion (at least to me) was that they were going to winterfell.

Moat Cailin was just the way there. We know that Moat Cailin is like the choke point for entering the north (the only road goes through it). Before Reek helped Ramsey take Moat Cailin, Roose Bolton even mentioned that he had to smuggle himself into his own lands (because they Greyjoy's held it at that time).


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

LordKronos said:


> No, they were going into Moat Cailin, Podrick asked how they get in or how they follow (something like that) and she said "we'll go around". Pod said they'd lose sight of [Sansa] and Brienne said "I know where they are going". The suggestion (at least to me) was that they were going to winterfell.


If only someone had said that earlier in the thread.  

j/k  Maybe you have me on ignore.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> If only someone had said that earlier in the thread.
> 
> j/k  Maybe you have me on ignore.


To be fair, you only posted it 5 minutes before me. At the time I loaded the page, your reply wasn't there


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

True! I was just kidding around. I'm just glad to know I'm not on ignore.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

LordKronos said:


> No, they were going into Moat Cailin, Podrick asked how they get in or how they follow (something like that) and she said "we'll go around". Pod said they'd lose sight of [Sansa] and Brienne said "I know where they are going". The suggestion (at least to me) was that they were going to winterfell.
> 
> Moat Cailin was just the way there. We know that Moat Cailin is like the choke point for entering the north (the only road goes through it). Before Reek helped Ramsey take Moat Cailin, Roose Bolton even mentioned that he had to smuggle himself into his own lands (because they Greyjoy's held it at that time).


I agree upon reflection that is what happened, but it was just done poorly, and really there was no need to show Cailin if they were going to compress the timeline that much.

Overall an excellent episode, the departure from the books with Sansa is going to be interesting, given Ramsey's treatment of women and others.

I did like Tommen's enthusiasm as others have pointed out!


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Jstkiddn said:


> True! I was just kidding around. I'm just glad to know I'm not on ignore.


If I didn't ignore a certain someone in the discussion of the poor design of the gate at The Wall, I think you are safe.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

pjenkins said:


> I agree upon reflection that is what happened, but it was just done poorly, and really there was no need to show Cailin if they were going to compress the timeline that much.


I totally understand the confusion. I do think Cailin was at least a little necessary. First, it shows that Sansa (who has traditionally been pretty dumb) is at least aware of what's going on . Second, it preemptively answers any questions from observant watchers who may have wondered how Brienne followed them through Moat Cailin to get to Winterfell.

But I think it still should have been fairly obvious, if you at least remember what's been going on. We already saw Roose and Ramsey arriving at Winterfell, so we knew they were already there.

So they gave a bunch of hints to let you know where they were. Guess some people just didn't connect the dots. It is unfortunate for those people, but for those that can connect them I think it makes the show feel a little more rewarding.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

LordKronos said:


> I totally understand the confusion. I do think Cailin was at least a little necessary. First, it shows that Sansa (who has traditionally been pretty dumb) is at least aware of what's going on . Second, it preemptively answers any questions from observant watchers who may have wondered how Brienne followed them through Moat Cailin to get to Winterfell.
> 
> But I think it still should have been fairly obvious, if you at least remember what's been going on. We already saw Roose and Ramsey arriving at Winterfell, so we knew they were already there.
> 
> So they gave a bunch of hints to let you know where they were. Guess some people just didn't connect the dots. It is unfortunate for those people, but for those that can connect them I think it makes the show feel a little more rewarding.


I will do my traditional second viewing tonight and perhaps connect the dots better  I did watch last night after a dinner party with some drinking, so I'll blame my lack of dot connecting skills on that!


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Another out of character moment is when Littlefinger told Ramsey that he doesn't know much about him.
> 
> First, it's not like Baelish not to know everything. Second, it's pretty hard not to hear about the sadistic prick that goes around peeling the skin of everyone, including a Lord, his wife, and his son.


What makes you think he told the truth? Do you trust anything Littlefinger says?


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

pjenkins said:


> I will do my traditional second viewing tonight and perhaps connect the dots better  I did watch last night after a dinner party with some drinking, so I'll blame my lack of dot connecting skills on that!


The second viewing (this morning) was better for me.

Through my own stupidity, my TiVo missed the first airing last night and I had to wait for the 10:30 airing. By then I was already struggling to stay awake, so I missed some of the finer details that I picked up on the second time around.

I apparently fell asleep toward the end, because I had no memory at ALL of the Tyrion scenes at the end. I had missed the entire brothel portion!


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Ereth said:


> What makes you think he told the truth? Do you trust anything Littlefinger says?


Agreed, I think he has more up his sleeve than just delivering Sansa to the Boltons  He's one of the most 'thorough' people in the game.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Ereth said:


> What makes you think he told the truth? Do you trust anything Littlefinger says?


Good point. I did not think of that.

I wasn't confused at all about Moat Cailin versus Winterfell. The marshes around the Moat made it easy to recognize. What did confuse me was why Brienne had to go around the Moat. Yes, it is a choke point, but I assume there are a ton of people going through it every day as they go about their business.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

teknikel said:


> I get the feeling that if a girl doesn't get rid of the sword before her test, a girl will surely fail.


And hey, those faceless dudes are pretty slow. I'm sure they have no clue she didn't pitch it!

Re: little finger

It's well known he loved Cat. If he admitted to knowing much about Ramsey it would seem odd he was willing to hand over his beloved's daughter to him.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I wasn't confused at all about Moat Cailin versus Winterfell. The marshes around the Moat made it easy to recognize. What did confuse me was why Brienne had to go around the Moat. Yes, it is a choke point, but I assume there are a ton of people going through it every day as they go about their business.


But they have to have a reason to be traveling through there and likely would need the permission of the Boltons to enter the North. Brienne didn't want Sansa and Littlefinger to know she was following them.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> But they have to have a reason to be traveling through there and likely would need the permission of the Boltons to enter the North. Brienne didn't want Sansa and Littlefinger to know she was following them.


This is strange. It's a country with millions of people. People travel for any and many reasons. Why would a couple be stopped for passing through?

Now, if you're trying to get through with an army...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> This is strange. It's a country with millions of people. People travel for any and many reasons. Why would a couple be stopped for passing through
> 
> Now, if you're trying to get through with an army...


Isn't that the whole point of Moat Caillin? Forcing travelers to go through the choke point so that whoever controls the Moat also controls all travel to/from the North? If they're just going to let random groups of 2-3 through without issue, then it would be easy for an army to just disguise itself and go through little by little.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Surprised nobody has mentioned the age difference between Maergery and Tommen. In real life, she's 33 and he's 17. In the story I think he's supposed to be even younger.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned the age difference between Maergery and Tommen. In real life, she's 33 and he's 17. In the story I think he's supposed to be even younger.


How old is Maergery in the book? I know she is older than Tommen, but i don't think she is anywhere near 33. That said, a lot of them are older in the tv show. Wasn't Dani only like 13 or so in the first book?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Isn't that the whole point of Moat Caillin? Forcing travelers to go through the choke point so that whoever controls the Moat also controls all travel to/from the North? If they're just going to let random groups of 2-3 through without issue, then it would be easy for an army to just disguise itself and go through little by little.


Many people in the south say that is what the "Mexicans" are doing now...an invasion!

In reality, it's a border crossing of sorts. You show your ID, you state your business, and they let 99% through. Especially a woman and guy.

OK...I won't beat it to death. Let's just say I don't get it and move on


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned the age difference between Maergery and Tommen. In real life, she's 33 and he's 17. In the story I think he's supposed to be even younger.


He is 17 in real life? I would have put him on 14 myself.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

I believe he's 12 in the books.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

And she's 15


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Anubys said:


> He is 17 in real life? I would have put him on 14 myself.


He is quite young looking! I would have guessed 15.



DUDE_NJX said:


> I believe he's 12 in the books.





MonsterJoe said:


> And she's 15


So, is the character as cunning and savvy in the books as she is on the show? It's hard to picture a 15 year old girl being as wise to the ways of the world as the character is depicted on tv.

EDIT TO ADD: On second thought, this was probably an inappropriate question for this thread. I should not have asked about book things. Sorry!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I'm at the point where I'm filled with revulsion whenever I see Ramsey or Theon on screen.

Tyrion might as well have painted a "Hey! I'm Tyrion Lannister!" sign on his back. What an idiot.

I want the Arya plot to progress more quickly but what I'd really like is for the faceless people to give her a frickin' straight answer for once.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

DevdogAZ said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned the age difference between Maergery and Tommen. In real life, she's 33 and he's 17. In the story I think he's supposed to be even younger.


the age differences are obvious between tommen and margaery (between joffrey and margaery, too), but didn't think it was unusually strange for an arranged marriage in a fictional kingodm.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Steveknj said:


> I doubt Littlefinger was telling the truth. I would assume this marriage will last as long as his did to Caitlyn's sister. The idea is that Littlefinger gets Winterfell by proxy through Sansa or at least get that influence. Sure it's revenge, but it's also part of Littlefinger's quest for power and influence.


I hadn't really thought of this. So is Littlefinger staying there after the wedding? I wouldn't think he would be particularly welcome. And they read all his ravens.... But he surely doesn't want to expose Sansa to much of Ramsey--still even one night with Ramsey would be hell. 



Robin said:


> I laughed at Tyrion being taken to "the Queen". Tyrion thinks it's Ceresi and he's dead. Little does he know it's exactly where he was headed anyway! Wacky hijinks ensure.
> 
> I can't remember: had Dany already expressed interest in Tyrion?


I can't think how Tyrion would be worth much to Dany. Does he know Jorah by sight? I'm sure he's heard the name, but I doubt if he's ever seen him.



Stormspace said:


> Did anyone else get the impression that drinking from the fountain was the final test? Pass you live, fail you die?


I thought drinking from the fountain was a form of suicide. Maybe.

Do the people at Winterfel know that Stannis and his army are at the wall?
I wonder what Stannis would do with Sansa if he did conquer Winterfel and the Boltons. Maybe marry her off to one of his men? I guess Littlefinger is right to take her to the north. At least no one there will turn her over to Cercei.

Is Brienne going to try to avenge Renley by killing Stannis?


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

I was surprised by the turn Sansa's storyline has taken, because it's very different from the books. I knew the show would start going it's own way this season, but that was a rather major departure.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> Is Brienne going to try to avenge Renley by killing Stannis?


It sure sounds like that's her ultimate plan. I wonder if Mellisandra will have anything to say about that.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

NorthAlabama said:


> the age differences are obvious between tommen and margaery (between joffrey and margaery, too), but didn't think it was unusually strange for an arranged marriage in a fictional kingodm.


There's an age difference between Cereci and Margarey's brother, too.

Unrelated: I loved Margarey's digs about Cereci's age. "Queen Mother? Dowager Queen?"

Cereci has met someone who plays the game as well as she does.



stellie93 said:


> Is Brienne going to try to avenge Renley by killing Stannis?


Yes, she was pretty clear about that.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

I didn't note as much scheming as I did desperation in cereci's interaction with margerie


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MonsterJoe said:


> I didn't note as much scheming as I did desperation in cereci's interaction with margerie


Desperation by who? Cercei? Of course, because she's lost her title, and now she also no longer has control of her son.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

I liked the grandmother dig too


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Desperation by who? Cercei? Of course, because she's lost her title, and now she also no longer has control of her son.


Yes...the comment was a reply to the comments that she's scheming or has something up her sleeve


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

zordude said:


> I liked the grandmother dig too


And the one about being too early _for them_ to be drinking wine :up:


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Anubys said:


> And the one about being too early _for them_ to be drinking wine :up:


That one made me:


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Shakhari said:


> <snip> because it's very different from the books.<snip>


Just a note... the general agreement is that we won't compare books to the TV series in the threads about each episode.

There is a thread specifically for comments like this...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=526634


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Another few HUGE giveaways that they are in Winterfell: you see them doing all of the repairs (remember that last we saw it, it was burning), and also when Reek sees the 2 flayed men hanging to either side of the gate, and he pauses because that's exactly how he had the 2 farmers boys hanging at the same gate.

Edit: and then when standing looking at Most Cailin Sansa asks "where are you taking me" (OK...forget my previous comment about her figuring it out), little finger says "home" and then she says "the Bolton's have Winter fell"

I think we also got a little glimpse of Qyburn's experiments under that blanket...it would appear The Mountain isn't entirely dead


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

The scene with Margaery and Cersei was so interesting to me, because they said so many pleasant things to one another, and yet neither one of them meant one word of it, and they both knew exactly what the other meant the whole time.

It was like High School! But fascinating.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

And Margaery still would've been in middle school at that age!


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

LordKronos said:


> Another few HUGE giveaways that they are in Winterfell: you see them doing all of the repairs (remember that last we saw it, it was burning), and also when Reek sees the 2 flayed men hanging to either side of the gate, and he pauses because that's exactly how he had the 2 farmers boys hanging at the same gate.
> 
> Edit: and then when standing looking at Most Cailin Sansa asks "where are you taking me" (OK...forget my previous comment about her figuring it out), little finger says "home" and then she says "the Bolton's have Winter fell"
> 
> I think we also got a little glimpse of Qyburn's experiments under that blanket...it would appear The Mountain isn't entirely dead


Yep, upon 2nd viewing it's very clear that's where they are going and are at. I'm going to plead alcohol inhibitors


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> Lord, wife, and brother were flayed alive. Only one son was mentioned.


You are correct. I had thought the brother was that of the son but it was clear that it's the Lord's brother.

There are very few shows worthy of a second viewing. GoT DEMANDS a second and third viewing to savor every moment. The subtle facial expressions and movement in this show are amazing.

I saw all the facial reactions that led to Slynt's head getting chopped off. But only a second and third viewing allowed me to savor them. The best was the expression on Slynt's face when Thorne (did I spell that right?) steps to the side to allow Slynt to be taken away (when it looked for a moment that he would stand in their way). It all happens so fast and is masterfully done.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

And the way Jon handled the situation was pretty masterful as well...allowing his nemeses the opportunity to play important roles in the New Regime, and making an example of Slynt when Slynt refused to play along (following his father's advice of always doing the dirty work yourself). It will be interesting to see how Thorne handles things from here.

Speaking of great expressions, how about the very complicated reaction Thorne had to the announcement of his new post? I think it's safe to say he did not see that one coming, and is not sure what to make of it...


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And the way Jon handled the situation was pretty masterful as well...allowing his nemeses the opportunity to play important roles in the New Regime, and making an example of Slynt when Slynt refused to play along (following his father's advice of always doing the dirty work yourself). It will be interesting to see how Thorne handles things from here.
> 
> Speaking of great expressions, how about the very complicated reaction Thorne had to the announcement of his new post? I think it's safe to say he did not see that one coming, and is not sure what to make of it...


Well he didn't stand in Jon's way when he went after Slynt. So I guess he appreciated being made "vice president"...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> Well he didn't stand in Jon's way when he went after Slynt. So I guess he appreciated being made "vice president"...


Although he hesitated. I think on the one hand, he's relieved that Jon isn't treating him like, well, he treated Jon; and on the other, he's still not sure where he stands and whether he likes it.


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Cersei would be quite pleased with the offering as well.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Cersei would be quite pleased with the offering as well.


She offered a Lordship to the one who brings her the head. Which begs a couple of questions:

1. She seems to offer a Lordship to anyone, probably the one who brings her wine in the morning. How many of these are available anyway?

2. Two hunters brought her that head. Who was going to get it? would they have had to fight for it?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> 1. She seems to offer a Lordship to anyone, probably the one who brings her wine in the morning. How many of these are available anyway?


Assuming Westeros is similar to Medieval Europe, there's no theoretical limit. Lordships are cheap; it's what comes with the lordship that matters. If you're given an existing duchy, you become one of the greatest and most powerful lords in England. If a barony is created especially for you, you might have the title and not much else.

What stops one from creating lords left and right is that if you make too many, it stops meaning anything. So you want to save it for people who you really need to make happy. (And of course the great and powerful dukes will always sneer at those nouveau barons without massive estates...)


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The greatest part of that entire scene was Jon giving latrine digging... to someone else! He was staring at Thorne the entire time and surely Thorne thought Jon would try to embarrass him with that as revenge. But instead, Jon praises him and then gives him the rank of First Ranger... then he makes his move to break up Slynt and Thorne by sending one away (or as it ended up, sending just his head away). Since he already showed the stick and the carrot to Thorne, and Slynt was so clearly in the wrong, it was an easy decision for Thorne.

Really nice.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Was anyone surprised we had no Dany/Meereen in this episode? Especially after last episode ended with the city about to descend into riots?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Poor Tommen, he's so doomed.
> 
> I mean, he'd be doomed even if this weren't Game of Thrones. But this is Game of Thrones, so he's extra-doomed!


"Mom, don't you want to go back to Castle Rock? You're _sure_?"

What muscle does Cersei have without Tywin and Jamie? There can easily come a point when the King's Guard is ordered to ignore her.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

MikeAndrews said:


> "Mom, don't you want to go back to Castle Rock? You're _sure_?"
> 
> What muscle does Cersei have without Tywin and Jamie? There can easily come a point when the King's Guard is ordered to ignore her.


Is that why there isn't a Hand yet? Cersei is basically acting in that capacity so far right?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Was anyone surprised we had no Dany/Meereen in this episode? Especially after last episode ended with the city about to descend into riots?


Not really...they do that when there's a really big storyline unfolding. If they have it every week, then there's no room for everything else, so they skip weeks.

I wonder how fully the individual episodes are planned out when they're filming? Which is to say, I wonder if there isn't a lot of juggling of scenes from one episode to another as they edit...


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

pjenkins said:


> Is that why there isn't a Hand yet? Cersei is basically acting in that capacity so far right?


Marjorie needs to convince Tommen to name a Hand. Then there would be nothing Cersei could do. Marjorie's dad seems to be a moron. Too bad Grandma can't come back and be Hand.


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## markp99 (Mar 21, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Marjorie needs to convince Tommen to name a Hand.


Looks like Tommen doesn't need a hand for the time being


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

markp99 said:


> Looks like Tommen doesn't need a hand for the time being


Man, being Hand of the King must SUCK!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Not really...they do that when there's a really big storyline unfolding. If they have it every week, then there's no room for everything else, so they skip weeks.
> 
> I wonder how fully the individual episodes are planned out when they're filming? Which is to say, I wonder if there isn't a lot of juggling of scenes from one episode to another as they edit...


I think they are planned pretty intricately. They are usually filming multiple episodes simultaneously, with Director A working on scenes for Episodes 1 & 4 filming in Location X, Director B filming scenes for Episodes 3 & 9 in Location Y, etc. So I don't think they can just cut a scene from one episode and move it to another, because typically that previous/next episode is directed by someone else with a different style.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> I think they are planned pretty intricately. They are usually filming multiple episodes simultaneously, with Director A working on scenes for Episodes 1 & 4 filming in Location X, Director B filming scenes for Episodes 3 & 9 in Location Y, etc. So I don't think they can just cut a scene from one episode and move it to another, because typically that previous/next episode is directed by someone else with a different style.


I'm not sure how different the styles are...GoT seems to use more of a "house style."

You're probably right, but I do wonder what goes on in the editing room after the season is shot...I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least _some _movement of scenes. And it certainly gives them more freedom if they have the option of moving a scene instead of having to outright cut it for time.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Anubys said:


> He is 17 in real life? I would have put him on 14 myself.


OOOOOO, isn't that a problem for the production? If he's not 18 they would have had to have a stunt husband in the semi-nudie scenes.

I didn't notice if they had that "documents are on file" disclaimer.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Man, being Hand of the King must SUCK!


There is a saying in Westoros:

The King ****s, and the Hand wipes.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I'm not sure how different the styles are...GoT seems to use more of a "house style."
> 
> You're probably right, but I do wonder what goes on in the editing room after the season is shot...I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least _some _movement of scenes. And it certainly gives them more freedom if they have the option of moving a scene instead of having to outright cut it for time.


But it's HBO, so they wouldn't have a need to cut for time. They've had episodes less than 50 minutes and episodes longer than an hour.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> If he's not 18 they would have had to have a stunt husband in the semi-nudie scenes.


Why?


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Man, being Hand of the King must SUCK!


Dude, that's his MOM.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Anubys said:


> He is 17 in real life? I would have put him on 14 myself.
> 
> 
> MikeAndrews said:
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_film_industry_regulations


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> What muscle does Cersei have without Tywin and Jamie? There can easily come a point when the King's Guard is ordered to ignore her.


 It looks to me like Cersei is trying to move to a new power base, by aligning with the Sparrows and the religious.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Man, being Hand of the King must SUCK!


 I would think the whole point of the Hand is it doesn't suck...?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_film_industry_regulations


That does not answer my question. That link is about the adult film industry, and it is also primarily about the US. The scene you were referring to showed little nudity and no actual or simulated sex, and both actors are British.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

madscientist said:


> It looks to me like Cersei is trying to move to a new power base, by aligning with the Sparrows and the religious.


I think she also wants Littlefinger to do her bidding, not yet realizing that Littlefinger has gone off the reservation.

When does Sansa (and Arya) find out that Baelish is the one that got Ned killed?


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

If the Starks are looking for someone who hasn't killed a family member, they'll be looking awhile.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Robin said:


> Dude, that's his MOM.


Poor sweet Robin. She thinks she found a line Cersei would not cross!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Poor sweet Robin. She thinks she found a line Cersei would not cross!


I guess extra mean sauce will only take you so far...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Tommen was nervous. Natalie was necked: http://www.mtv.com/news/2144126/game-of-thrones-dean-charles-chapman-natalie-dormer-sex-scene/

She has freckles on her back, too.


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## Fixer (Mar 29, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ...(following his father's advice of always doing the dirty work yourself)...


It would have been cool if they had shown that S1E1 scene in the "previously on" segment. The context was perfect with what went down at Castle Black during this ep.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

MikeAndrews said:


> She has freckles on her back, too.


I can accept that


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

It's up...

If Game of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook S5E3

http://valarbloghulis.someecards.co...lace-entirely-on-facebook-season-5-episode-3/


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

astrohip said:


> It's up...
> 
> If Game of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook S5E3
> 
> http://valarbloghulis.someecards.co...lace-entirely-on-facebook-season-5-episode-3/


I love that the link is called Valarbloghulis :up:


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

astrohip said:


> It's up...
> 
> If Game of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook S5E3
> 
> http://valarbloghulis.someecards.co...lace-entirely-on-facebook-season-5-episode-3/


:up:

Ser Janos Slynt has played the word "mercy" in Last Words With Friends.

Score: 0 points.

LOL!!


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

astrohip said:


> It's up...
> 
> If Game of Thrones took place entirely on Facebook S5E3
> 
> http://valarbloghulis.someecards.co...lace-entirely-on-facebook-season-5-episode-3/


so so good! 
on marrying Bolton

"Relax your marrying his son"?

"That no-talent ass-clown Michael"?

LOL love the Office Space reference.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

MikeAndrews said:


> Tommen was nervous. Natalie was necked: http://www.mtv.com/news/2144126/game-of-thrones-dean-charles-chapman-natalie-dormer-sex-scene/
> 
> She has freckles on her back, too.


Given the context, I did trip over the one quote from Chapman "Natalie is a lovely person. She made it all completely smooth." 

Oh, made the day of shooting go smoothly... That makes more sense.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

Ironic given the episode title that not one comment has talked about the High Sparrow.

(I don't find that plot line very interesting, either)


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

MacThor said:


> Ironic given the episode title that not one comment has talked about the High Sparrow.
> 
> (I don't find that plot line very interesting, either)


Well, not much going on there yet, just the introduction and


Spoiler



another huge departure from the book regarding how the high sparrow looked


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

So if Cercei threw the High Septon in jail and is now forging an alliance with the High Sparrow, does that mean she's going to try and appoint the High Sparrow as the head of the church and then use that alliance to maintain some level of power and influence? Seems that since she's losing influence in the Small Council and now Tommen is being influenced by Margaery, this might be Cercei's only way to stay relevant in King's Landing.


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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

church, meet state.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

This is interesting. Did not remember this:


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Which part in particular did you not remember?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Probably about Slynt betraying Ned Stark...


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Probably about Slynt betraying Ned Stark...


Yes. Shoulda been more specific...


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