# Lease vs. Own re Free MPEG4 Upgrade



## Waterbaby (Mar 6, 2006)

Any speculation if leasing or owning gives you a better chance at a free upgrade when the MPEG4 receiver comes out?


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Waterbaby said:


> Any speculation if leasing or owning gives you a better chance at a free upgrade when the MPEG4 receiver comes out?


I would bet that leasing would have a much greater chance of getting the free upgrade than people like myself who own our HR10-250's. But leasing does not guarantee you'll be upgraded free.


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## jcricket (Sep 11, 2002)

One might think leasing guarantees a free upgrade to whatever next-gen boxes came out (maybe with an increased lease fee). However, with DirecTV charging such a large up-front fee for the current generation of HD-DVR, I wouldn't bet on it. My guess is that DirecTV will have a $200-300 up-front fee for the HR20, in addition to the lease fee. 

And just like you don't get any down-payment "back" when you end a lease on a car, you won't get your up-front $500 back for leasing the HR10-250. The major difference being that a car down payment is 5% of the car price, not 75%. 

I'd definitely consider paying $10/month to lease the next generation HD DVR from DirecTV, but not with any up-front costs (I'm assuming some nominal charge for the new Dish). If they do proceed with their high up-front cost model for HD DVRs, and only "allow" you to lease 1, I'm moving to cable or buying my own Series 3 Tivo and moving to cable.


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## hiker (Nov 29, 2001)

There are no lease fees if you have only one receiver/DVR or if you have more than one the first is free. Additional ones have a $4.99/mo each charge like the prior mirror fee. By charging the initial $499 they are getting the lease fee upfront.


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## rcbray (Mar 31, 2004)

Sorry if I've missed recent information and am asking a dumb question.

A couple months ago the general consensus was that those of us who owned an HD Tivo would eventually be "upgraded" at no or minimal cost by D* when the new DVR was available. Which of the following applies?
1) We can get the free/low cost upgrade after our area gets MPEG4 and the new DVR is available.
2) We can't get the free/low cost upgrade until they are discontinuing MPEG2 in a few years.
3) Sorry but the word is no longer a free/low cost upgrade. We will have to pay significant upfront cost and then will be on a lease basis. Pretty much as if I hadn't spent $1000 on the Tivo and they hadn't made it obsolete for me.

Does anyone know what the current plans happen to be?

Thanks.


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## aus (Jul 30, 2005)

They'll probably "replace" our units under a lease agreement. I just hope we don't have to send the unit's in.


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## rcbray (Mar 31, 2004)

aus said:


> They'll probably "replace" our units under a lease agreement. I just hope we don't have to send the unit's in.


With or without upfront cost?


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## aus (Jul 30, 2005)

There shouldn't be any cost since we've paid for the boxes already and this change over is forced upon us. There will likely be a 2 year agreement.


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## SecureTalk (Apr 8, 2002)

aus said:


> They'll probably "replace" our units under a lease agreement. I just hope we don't have to send the unit's in.


What I think may happen is this:

The upgrade will be free (by using the return of the old unit as a substitute for a upfront fee)

The upgrade will require the old unit to be returned if the upgrade fee is to be waved

Before the announcement of the lease program, I thought there would be a upgrade path (even allowing us to keep the old equipment) from the HR10 to the HR20 that would between $0 and $100 for the unit itself.

With the current business model I think there will be upfront charges for all high-end DVR equipment (with the possible exception of specials for new customers). There may very well be free [sic] upgrades for those of us with HR10s, but I think that free is a bad term in this case. They will use the return of the HR10 as a substitute for the cold hard cash.

Just my opinion --- until the HR20-### units are rolled out [or DirecTV makes a announcement in writing] I don't think anyone can say for certain what will happen. I don't think by DirecTV keeping it's customers in the dark is helping DirecTV or it's customers. If they publish their plans and they lose customers, they were customers they would have lost anyway. By publishing their intentions now they may actually help by making the customers feel more at ease about the future path of equipment billing. Customers would be more willing to make a decision to get more equipment now. The longer DirecTV puts off their plans the more chance they have for customers to jump ship due to uncertainty then they would have otherwise. A customer may leave for some other provider who can spell out costs rather then sitting on a fence waiting for an answer that may or may not be in their favor.


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## JohnDG (Oct 28, 2004)

SecureTalk said:


> The upgrade will be free (by using the return of the old unit as a substitute for a upfront fee)
> 
> The upgrade will require the old unit to be returned if the upgrade fee is to be waved


Question is: what will be the net cost including returning the owned unit?

If one owns an HD TiVo, then they also have a 200 hour SD unit that will be good for a number of years to come. It may make more sense to pay the fee for a new lease box and retain the HD TiVo for general recording purposes.

jdg


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

It will probably have marginal effect (at least this time around)

As you have a vast majority of HR10-250 owners who paid $1,000 2 years ago for the unit...

Vs those getting it for $399 (post rebates) on leases right now.


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## i_be_broke (Feb 16, 2006)

As far as the 'free' MPEG4 upgrade goes, I think all of us are in for a rude awakening. Given the current climate of DirecTV (post-Murdoch), I suspect that there will be an upgrade charge AND you will no longer own the unit. 

I came across this disclaimer in reading this Sunday's flier advertising the HR10-250. The caps were on page 6 of the Circuit City Sunday mailer. RECEIVERS ARE AT ALL TIMES PROPERTY OF DIRECTV AND MUST BE RETURNED UPON CANCELLATION OF SERVICE, OR ADDITIONAL FEES APPLY. 

I'm confident the same principle will apply for the HR20-xxx.


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## paulstefano (Jan 12, 2006)

i_be_broke said:


> As far as the 'free' MPEG4 upgrade goes, I think all of us are in for a rude awakening. Given the current climate of DirecTV (post-Murdoch), I suspect that there will be an upgrade charge AND you will no longer own the unit.
> 
> I came across this disclaimer in reading this Sunday's flier advertising the HR10-250. The caps were on page 6 of the Circuit City Sunday mailer. RECEIVERS ARE AT ALL TIMES PROPERTY OF DIRECTV AND MUST BE RETURNED UPON CANCELLATION OF SERVICE, OR ADDITIONAL FEES APPLY.
> 
> I'm confident the same principle will apply for the HR20-xxx.


Unless you're in a rural environment without cable, what's the lure of Directv anymore?


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

i_be_broke said:


> As far as the 'free' MPEG4 upgrade goes, I think all of us are in for a rude awakening. Given the current climate of DirecTV (post-Murdoch), I suspect that there will be an upgrade charge AND you will no longer own the unit.
> 
> I came across this disclaimer in reading this Sunday's flier advertising the HR10-250. The caps were on page 6 of the Circuit City Sunday mailer. RECEIVERS ARE AT ALL TIMES PROPERTY OF DIRECTV AND MUST BE RETURNED UPON CANCELLATION OF SERVICE, OR ADDITIONAL FEES APPLY.
> 
> I'm confident the same principle will apply for the HR20-xxx.


DirecTV does not own my equipment. Not after I paid $1000 for my first HR10-250 and $400 for the second one


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

paulstefano said:


> Unless you're in a rural environment without cable, what's the lure of Directv anymore?


I agree. I am finding it harder and harder to stay with DirecTV myself. After the series 3 TiVo comes out I might jump back to cable. I want to wait a bit and at lease see what the HR20 has to offer before I do that though.

I am really thinking of just going to cable now and buying a series 2 TiVo and not worrying about HD right now and just hook up my OTA antenna to my TV's HD tuner. I only have DirecTV for TiVo and the HR10-250. I love being able to record in HD, but I don't really NEED to. Once TiVo and DirecTV's relationship is done with, I don't see any reason to stay with DirecTV.

IMO, but I could be wrong.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

But those pruchased via an authorized DirecTV vendor... (unless you pay the true FULL price for the box)... that stipulation that they own it... does apply.

It is not retro active.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

I was never told this by the Authorized Resellers that I bought mine from.


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## i_be_broke (Feb 16, 2006)

In my post, I was speaking to the upgrade. 

When I choose to upgrade (which my be corrected to 'if'), in all likelihood I will not 'own' the upgraded unit (HR20 - whatever). I'm a little hesitant to give up my 'owned' HR10-250 for a 'leased' HR20-250. There's a lot of speculation right now, but, given the current business model...I suspect that's how it'll all play out.

Also, as ebonovic stated, if you 'bought' the second HDTivo (the $400 one) AFTER March 1st, you're probably leasing it...sorry to say


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

I am not so "hesitant" to lease the units...

Why... I haven't left DirecTV in 10 years....

I am not going to Dish anytime soon... and if I did... what the heck am I going to do with the DirecTV units? The resale value isn't all that magnificant any more.

There is next to no chance I am going to Comcrap anytime soon...
And the same would apply...

Not that I don't enjoy hacking them... simply don't have the time to do it... And even then if you do it right... you could hack your "leased" unit anyway... just have to be sure to revert it back to OEM state before returning it.


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## hyimted (Apr 13, 2003)

fwiw, i just got off the phone with the d* tech support. while i had the guy i asked him about the new hd-dvr box. he states availability will be mid-2006. he said he believes it will be a *swap-out * as that's d*'s policy when doing an upgrade. he also thinks there will be some sort of charge ... but he wasn't sure what it would be.

since he didn't know about how much it would cost to do the upgrade, i didn't push him. while that has me concerned, considering i only paid a couple hundred bucks for my hr10-250, i guess i wouldn't mind paying a nominal fee ... but if it's a lot i'm gonna be irritated.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

i_be_broke said:


> In my post, I was speaking to the upgrade.
> 
> When I choose to upgrade (which my be corrected to 'if'), in all likelihood I will not 'own' the upgraded unit (HR20 - whatever). I'm a little hesitant to give up my 'owned' HR10-250 for a 'leased' HR20-250. There's a lot of speculation right now, but, given the current business model...I suspect that's how it'll all play out.
> 
> Also, as ebonovic stated, if you 'bought' the second HDTivo (the $400 one) AFTER March 1st, you're probably leasing it...sorry to say


No sir, I bought it 4 or 5 months ago. No leases here.


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

hyimted said:


> fwiw, i just got off the phone with the d* tech support. while i had the guy i asked him about the new hd-dvr box. he states availability will be mid-2006. he said he believes it will be a *swap-out * as that's d*'s policy when doing an upgrade. he also thinks there will be some sort of charge ... but he wasn't sure what it would be.
> 
> since he didn't know about how much it would cost to do the upgrade, i didn't push him. while that has me concerned, considering i only paid a couple hundred bucks for my hr10-250, i guess i wouldn't mind paying a nominal fee ... but if it's a lot i'm gonna be irritated.


If I have to pay anything at all, I will be leaving DirecTV for sure then.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

tazzmission said:


> If I have to pay anything at all, I will be leaving DirecTV for sure then.


Why? because you will have to pay something for a new piece of equipment?

You won't be forced to do it... you will be able to keep your HR10-250 as long as you want.... It will just reach somepoint that some of the services won't be available to the unit (the MPEG-2 HD networks)... but that is multiple years down the road.

No different then when users want to access to features on a Cell Phone system... they have to pay an upgrade fee. (Or TiVo INC... when they introduced all the new series 2 features... you had to get a new box... some people go them free... other had to pay)

So long as the rate is reasonable (which each person has their own determination of) it is far from not being the normal thing now adays.

I know it is frustrating... since you just got your unit and all....


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## aus (Jul 30, 2005)

I think a working H10-250 would be worth some money now, since I will still OWN the uniit since the seller actually owns the unit.


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## Jeproks (May 2, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Why? because you will have to pay something for a new piece of equipment?
> 
> You won't be forced to do it... you will be able to keep your HR10-250 as long as you want.... It will just reach somepoint that some of the services won't be available to the unit (the MPEG-2 HD networks)... but that is multiple years down the road.
> 
> ...


When I subscribed to international programming last year. DTV called me and said that 2 of my Series 1 TiVos dont have the APG and they need to swap them out. They sent out 2 new ones and installed them for free so I think if they want to upgrade our equipment to MPEG 4, they will do it without agitating their customers by charging us with "upgrade" fees.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

IMHO... there are going to be mutliple upgrade paths... Some will be free, some will be "cheap", some may cost full price....

Untill it is announced... we really don't know.

There is a difference between charging $14.95 for shipping an handling of a new box
$100 for the upgrade box, or $500 for a new box.. (note, numbers are just to make a point... they don't reflect any information provide by DirecTV on any upgrade plans)


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> Why? because you will have to pay something for a new piece of equipment?
> 
> You won't be forced to do it... you will be able to keep your HR10-250 as long as you want.... It will just reach somepoint that some of the services won't be available to the unit (the MPEG-2 HD networks)... but that is multiple years down the road.
> 
> ...


Because I can go to cable and get an HD DVR for free and pay the monthly charge for the service. I have to buy the box from DirecTV and pay for the service and a DVR fee.

I know the cable company's don't have TiVo (HD) "yet". That is really the only reason I have DirecTV is the TiVo interface and the ability to record HD.


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## BillyBob_jcv (Feb 21, 2006)

If I am leasing a unit, and I want an upgrade to the current shipping unit, I predict my existing unit would suddenly have a severe failure that required a box replacement...

I also suspect that if they charge ANYTHING to existing lease customers to receive the latest shipping hw, that the failure rate of the older boxes would suddenly increase *dramatically*.


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## Syzygy (Aug 17, 2000)

> _*tazzmission* said:_
> Because I can go to cable and get an HD DVR for free and pay the monthly charge for the service. I have to buy the box from DirecTV and pay for the service and a DVR fee.
> 
> I know the cable company's don't have TiVo (HD) "yet". That is really the only reason I have DirecTV is the TiVo interface and the ability to record HD.


I'm with you, tazz. Unfortunately for us TiVoholics, the cable-card TiVo will actually cost something above and beyond the monthly charge. I've heard it's going to be at least $300 up front. Even so, for me it'll probably be worth it.

The only way I'm staying with D* (a year or two from now) is if the HR20 has auto-correction (snapback) after FF  which the R15 does *not *have  _and _a desirable channel like SciFi is available in HD on D* but not on Comcast.


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## hyimted (Apr 13, 2003)

another lease question.

i was told that this confusing-as-hell lease policy includes the following:

1. free upgrade to new equipment if needed
2. free replacement on defective goods

is that correct?


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