# Help with MoCA Network Design (with Roamio OTA, TiVo Mini and AT&T)



## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

So, I am looking for some help designing a MoCA network for my house.

*Current Setup*
I am using AT&T DSL and an ASUS Router. 
I have 2 x Roamio OTA with an Antenna on the roof. Both are currently using WiFi.
Every room is hooked up for Coax (to connect to the Antenna), but no ethernet.
There are 6 rooms split between two splitters. One spitter is hooked up to two rooms and the other is hooked up to 4. The signal strength is about 65-70% on the TiVos, so I do not want to lose any signal.
I also have a Logitech Harmony Elite hub in Bedroom 1 that is controlling the Roamio plus many other devices (not sure if this is relevant, but it might be).

*Future Setup*
Attached is what I am thinking, and I am looking for some feedback. I added some diplexers after reading some threads and it seems like a good idea to keep my signal strong. Keep in mind currently bedroom 2, 3 and the basement do not have any TV or TiVo but in the future they probably will. So, I am trying to make sure this is somewhat future proof. I also have a TV in the office and would like to setup a TiVo mini in that room and I am not sure how to accomplish this.

Thanks! Pardon my Visio skills!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Last question first... *Re: the Office Mini* ... you can simply connect the Office Mini to a LAN port on the router and configure the Mini for an Ethernet connection (a whole home setup can be a mix of Ethernet and MoCA); or use a 2-way splitter to connect both the Mini and the MoCA adapter to the coax cable coming from the wall outlet and configure the Mini as a MoCA client.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

As for the planned setup, it looks good/workable to me as diagrammed. I'll toss some thoughts your way, but the suggestions aren't critical.

*OTA signal strength ::* Short term, to get the best possible OTA signal to the DVRs, I'd think you'd want the rooms with your Roamio OTA units connected to the primary splitter outputs, and then connect the current Mini-only locations and the bridging MoCA adapter at the router location to the secondary splitter outputs.

*Standalone diplexer vs built-in :: *Depending on whether you've already purchased your MoCA adapters, you may want to consider the new-ish Motorola MM1000 MoCA adapters, as their built-in diplexer would simplify each Roamio OTA location setup, eliminating the separate diplexer and one coax cable. And the MM1000 is $20 cheaper, retail, than a TiVo Bridge.

NOTE: If using a MoCA adapter with a RF/STB Out pass-through port, keep in mind that the adapter is using a built-in diplexer to allow only sub-1 GHz signals through the pass-through port, so you could not connect a second MoCA device to the pass-through port with any expectation of successful MoCA connectivity for this device. It would be no different than trying to MoCA-connect a Mini via a diplexer's ANT port.​
*Live TV Mini-bypass via diplexer :: *If you already have the diplexers and are looking for something to do with them after opting for the MM1000 MoCA adapters, you could use a diplexer at a Mini location where you'd like the ability (for whatever reason or none at all) to bypass the TiVo setup for live TV viewing. The Mini would connect to the diplexer SAT port and the ATSC-capable TV would connect to the diplexer's ANT (UHF/VHF) port.


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks for the response!



krkaufman said:


> As for the planned setup, it looks good/workable to me as diagrammed. I'll toss some thoughts your way, but the suggestions aren't critical.
> 
> *OTA signal strength ::* Short term, to get the best possible OTA signal to the DVRs, I'd think you'd want the rooms with your Roamio OTA units connected to the primary splitter outputs, and then connect the current Mini-only locations and the bridging MoCA adapter at the router location to the secondary splitter outputs.


This is a great idea, but wont be possible because of where everything is positioned in the house. The antenna goes down to the basement to get an outlet where the booster is hooked up. It goes outside to the first splitter which is closest to the Den and Bedroom 2. Then goes around to the other side of the house to the 2nd splitter and connects to the Basement and other rooms.



krkaufman said:


> *Standalone diplexer vs built-in :: *Depending on whether you've already purchased your MoCA adapters, you may want to consider the new-ish Motorola MM1000 MoCA adapters, as their built-in diplexer would simplify each Roamio OTA location setup, eliminating the separate diplexer and one coax cable. And the MM1000 is $20 cheaper, retail, than a TiVo Bridge.
> 
> NOTE: If using a MoCA adapter with a RF/STB Out pass-through port, keep in mind that the adapter is using a built-in diplexer to allow only sub-1 GHz signals through the pass-through port, so you could not connect a second MoCA device to the pass-through port with any expectation of successful MoCA connectivity for this device. It would be no different than trying to MoCA-connect a Mini via a diplexer's ANT port.​


I have not purchased anything yet and removing a whole device seems like a great idea to simplify the setup. I will probably go with this. In terms of your note, which MoCA adapters work that way?



krkaufman said:


> *Live TV Mini-bypass via diplexer :: *If you already have the diplexers and are looking for something to do with them after opting for the MM1000 MoCA adapters, you could use a diplexer at a Mini location where you'd like the ability (for whatever reason or none at all) to bypass the TiVo setup for live TV viewing. The Mini would connect to the diplexer SAT port and the ATSC-capable TV would connect to the diplexer's ANT (UHF/VHF) port.


This is a great idea and will probably go with it.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> This is a great idea, but wont be possible *because of where everything is positioned* in the house. The antenna goes down to the basement to get an outlet where the booster is hooked up. It goes outside to the first splitter which is closest to the Den and Bedroom 2. Then goes around to the other side of the house to the 2nd splitter and connects to the Basement and other rooms.


Ah, I was wondering if those 2 splitters weren't as near each other as I inferred from the diagram; given the quality of the setup/diagram, I suspected that you'd have already made the Roamio connection if it were possible, but didn't want to leave it unsaid.



Kennyr35 said:


> In terms of your note, *which MoCA adapters work that way?*


Any with a RF pass-through port... Motorola MM1000, Actiontec ECB2500C or ECB6200, to name a few. _(edit: The TiVo Bridge and Actiontec ECB6000 lack the pass-through port -- noting that a TiVo Bridge is just a rebranded ECB6000.)_



Kennyr35 said:


> krkaufman said:
> 
> 
> > *Live TV Mini-bypass via diplexer :: ...*
> ...


Makes sense to take advantage of the OTA signal if you're sending it everywhere.


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Based on the question and answer on the amazon page, it looks like the MM1000 won’t work with AT&T DSL. I assume this is correct?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> Based on the question and answer on the amazon page, it looks like the *MM1000 won't work with AT&T DSL*. I assume this is correct?


*Incorrect.* Someone really needs to go through those Q&A's to provide clarification.

If ALL you had was a DSL connection to a modem/router, and you had *no coax lines* within the house, yeah, you'd be out of luck. But, fortunately, *you have coax runs to every room*, ideally suited for an OTA/MoCA setup, and for which the MM1000 is currently the best retail MoCA adapter option.


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Thank you so much for your help so far. It is greatly appreciated. Another question, is there any reason to go with the TiVo bridge by the router instead of the MM1000? What would be the use case to use the bridge vs the MM1000?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> Thank you so much for your help so far. It is greatly appreciated.


Happy to be of perceived help, if not yet actual.



Kennyr35 said:


> Another question, is there any reason to go with the TiVo bridge by the router instead of the MM1000? *What would be the use case to use the bridge vs the MM1000?*


Because you want to spend more money or have slower effective throughput between your MoCA adapters.

Unless you can buy a TiVo Bridge for less than the MM1000, I can't think of a reason to do so, especially since the MoCA adapter at the router location is the most critical adapter in terms of determining your effective throughput from the remote MoCA adapters to the router and Internet. The TiVo Bridge (i.e. Actiontec ECB6000) is just standard MoCA 2.0, and so limited to 400 Mbps; while the MM1000 and ECB6200 are bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 and can reach up to 800 Mbps.

But here's the kicker, MoCA is peer-to-peer and the effective throughput between two nodes is determined by the highest spec supported by BOTH nodes. So, a standard MoCA 2.0 adapter as your main bridge (e.g. a TiVo Bridge) would throttle traffic from any remote bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 adapters (e.g. MM1000) to the router to standard MoCA 2.0, 400 Mbps -- as opposed to using a bonded/extended MoCA adapter as the bridge, enabling up to the full 800 Mbps throughput between two bonded MoCA 2.0 nodes.

All that said, these speed maximums are irrelevant if all you're looking to do is provide networking for a Roamio OTA and Minis, since a Roamio OTA will be limited by its Fast Ethernet port (100 Mbps), no matter how fast the MoCA segment may be. Also, v1 & v2 Minis are Fast Ethernet (100 Mbps) and MoCA 1.1 (up to 170 Mbps), and the new Mini VOX has Gigabit Ethernet and standard MoCA 2.0 (<400Mbps) -- which, again, is somewhat moot in terms of TiVo-to-TiVo networking since the Roamio OTA's Fast Ethernet port will remain the limiting factor.

The primary reason to go with the MM1000's for your setup is cost and the RF pass-through port; however, you may find you can benefit from the greater bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 throughput offered between a pair of these adapters if you have other Ethernet-capable devices co-located with either of your Roamio OTAs. One additional tweak to your planned setup that I could/should have mentioned earlier would be using a Gigabit network switch at either Roamio OTA location to allow for connecting more than just the Roamio OTA to the wired network. For example (though not visualizing a Roamio OTA setup):








The example demonstrates one of the common selling points for MoCA beyond our TiVo world, using coax to provide wired connectivity to additional wireless access points throughout the home to eliminate wireless dead zones. Of course, the value of this last suggestion does depend on your actual throughput needs, now and in the near future.


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks for the help! I recently changed my internet to RCN 1GbE cable. The only difference in my setup is that now the connection coming from the ISP is coax vs RJ45. Would the MM1000 connecting to the router/antenna change at all? Check below screenshot.











krkaufman said:


> Happy to be of perceived help, if not yet actual.
> 
> Because you want to spend more money or have slower effective throughput between your MoCA adapters.
> 
> ...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> Thanks for the help! I recently changed my internet to RCN 1GbE cable. The only difference in my setup is that now the connection coming from the ISP is coax vs RJ45. Would the MM1000 connecting to the router/antenna change at all? Check below screenshot.
> 
> View attachment 34347


If the RCN Internet coax connection to the modem is via a coax run isolated from the rest of your coax (which connects back to your antenna signal), then everything can remain the same. The OTA antenna and cable Internet signals can't share coax.


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Heya, thanks for the help so far. I am pretty close to putting this all together, but I am interested in your mention of a adding a switch to the network. Will this only work with the WAP or can I do something like the attached? Where I just have the MOCA adapter connected to the switch and the switch connected to my various devices.



krkaufman said:


> The primary reason to go with the MM1000's for your setup is cost and the RF pass-through port; however, you may find you can benefit from the greater bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 throughput offered between a pair of these adapters if you have other Ethernet-capable devices co-located with either of your Roamio OTAs. One additional tweak to your planned setup that I could/should have mentioned earlier would be using a Gigabit network switch at either Roamio OTA location to allow for connecting more than just the Roamio OTA to the wired network. For example (though not visualizing a Roamio OTA setup):
> 
> View attachment 34131​
> The example demonstrates one of the common selling points for MoCA beyond our TiVo world, using coax to provide wired connectivity to additional wireless access points throughout the home to eliminate wireless dead zones. Of course, the value of this last suggestion does depend on your actual throughput needs, now and in the near future.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> I am pretty close to putting this all together, but I am interested in your mention of a adding a switch to the network. Will this only work with the WAP or can I do something like the attached?


Yes, you can network multiple devices via a MoCA adapter by using a switch as you've depicted in Bedroom 1.

That said, I expect it's just an oversight, but you've neglected to show the coax connections to the Roamio OTA boxes in Bedroom 1 and the Den; I'm assuming you'd planned on connecting each box to its associated MM1000 MoCA adapter's RF pass-through port.

The only other mysteries are why 2 splitters are being used on the roof; and why Bedroom 2 is being connected to the initial splitter rather than Bedroom 1, since you'd want to get a stronger signal to the DVR in Bedroom 1. Answered previously:


Kennyr35 said:


> This is a great idea, but wont be possible because of where everything is positioned in the house. The antenna goes down to the basement to get an outlet where the booster is hooked up. It goes outside to the first splitter which is closest to the Den and Bedroom 2. Then goes around to the other side of the house to the 2nd splitter and connects to the Basement and other rooms.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> Thanks for the help! I recently changed my internet to RCN 1GbE cable. The only difference in my setup is that now the connection coming from the ISP is coax vs RJ45. Would the MM1000 connecting to the router/antenna change at all? Check below screenshot.
> 
> View attachment 34347


The diagram could still use a tweak to make clear that the "Coax Internet" cable run is distinct from the antenna coax runs; and it might be worthwhile to segment the two roof location and their associated rooms to make the physical separation (and reason for multiple splitters) more clear.

edit: bored ... and procrastinating ... so:






​


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks for the help! Attached is my latest diagram.
I assume the OTA's are going to connect to the device port via coax on each MM1000, what is the benefit of this again vs just connecting via ethernet? Or is it a requirement in order for the MOCA network to work with the Tivo?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> I assume the OTA's are going to connect to the device port via coax on each MM1000, what is the benefit of this again vs just connecting via ethernet? Or is it a requirement in order for the MOCA network to work with the Tivo?


MoCA is just providing a network connection. The Roamio OTA DVR's kinda need the raw antenna signal to tune your TV content, right? 

(And, yes, the Roamio OTA's would connect to the MM1000's "Device" port.)


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Doh, of course they would need the Coax!



krkaufman said:


> MoCA is just providing a network connection. The Roamio OTA DVR's kinda need the raw antenna signal to tune your TV content, right?
> 
> (And, yes, the Roamio OTA's would connect to the MM1000's "Device" port.)


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

So, I have everything hooked up right now and it all seems to be working. I purchased the MM1000 for each of the rooms plus the switch and cables. I did not purchase any TiVo Mini's. My question is that everything seems to be working but I never changed any of the TiVO OTA's to MOCA. I don't even see this as an option within the settings. I am using the latest software so maybe they removed it from the options?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> My question is that everything seems to be working but I never changed any of the TiVO OTA's to MOCA. I don't even see this as an option within the settings. I am using the latest software so maybe they removed it from the options?


The 4-tuner Roamio's have no built-in MoCA functionality, and so no MoCA options within its network configuration page. A 4-tuner Roamio would either be connected directly to the Ethernet LAN or via Ethernet to a MoCA adapter (or its connected switch); either way, the Roamio is connected via Ethernet (as far as it knows) and would be configured for an Ethernet connection.


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

So, I am thinking about buying one Mini for my Office which already contains the MM1000 connected to my router. In my diagram I have the mini connected to the router. Can I connect the mini to the MM1000 device port instead or does it need to connect to the router directly? The router and MM1000 are about 5 feet from one another, but they are also across the room from one another. To avoid cables going into the middle of the room, I have a long 50 foot ethernet cable to go around the outside of the room. The mini would be by the TV and MM1000 which is why I ask.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> Can I connect the mini to the MM1000 device port


No, because the "Device" port doesn't pass MoCA signals.

Your options would include:

use a 2-way splitter at the MM1000 & Mini location to connect both directly to the coax plant (to network the Mini as a MoCA client);
string *another* Cat6 cable from the router to connect the Mini to the router LAN (configuring the Mini as an Ethernet client);
install a network switch at the MM1000 & Mini location, connecting both the Mini & MM1000 (and TV?) to the switch and linking the switch back to the router LAN via the existing Cat6 cable (configuring the Mini as an Ethernet client).


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks for the help! I am not sure if you can help with this, but perhaps you can give me some hints. 
My Roku (Premeire+) that is located in the master bedroom is only getting about 25Mbps. This speed is the same whether I have it directly connected or through WiFi (I am using the Netflix "test my connection".) 
This room is located right next to the office (where the router is located). The Roku supports 802.11ac and I am using a Cat6 cable and this switch for direct connection to the MM1000. I understand that the Roku only has a 10/100M network port, but I feel that the connection should be closer to 50-60Mbps. I also have a FireTV connected with the same cable and it gets closer to the 60Mbps speed.

Downstairs (but directly below the office with the router) I have a Roku TCL 4K TV and when I test this, it also gets the same 25-27Mbps speed whether directly connected or through WiFi (this TV also only has a 10/100M network port). Here is the kicker, I also have a Roku Streaming stick in another room that is much further away from the router (and this Roku device supports 802.11n only) and when this is connected to WiFi, it gets 60-70Mbps despite being much further away from the router. The whole thing boggles my mind as I would expect to be getting a better speed with the devices that are much closer or even with the ethernet cables.


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but with Amazon coming out with Recast, I have a few questions that perhaps someone can answer. If I wanted to use my MOCA setup but add a recast into the master bedroom, how would it work with connecting the recast via coax to the MM1000? Can I use a splitter to connect both the Roamio OTA and recast to the adapter or does that not work? Would the splitter be before the MM1000? I ask because I want to connect the recast via ethernet to the switch in the bedroom so it can take advantage of the 1GB connection.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> how would it work with connecting the recast via coax to the MM1000? Can I use a splitter to connect both the Roamio OTA and recast to the adapter ...?


Yes. And the best location for the splitter would be between the MoCA adapter's STB/TV Out (Device) port and the devices, keeping losses in the MoCA frequencies at a minimum for the MM1000 and allowing use of a non-MoCA splitter.

p.s. (... whether the OTA signal can support the additional 3.5+ dB loss enroute to the Roamio OTA and Recast remains to be seen)


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Thanks for the response. If I wanted to add the HD HomeRun to the Office TV, would the same thing work of adding a splitter after the MM1000? Also, do you have a recommendation of which splitter would be best?


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

Sorry to bring up an old thread, but I am looking to add two additional rooms via coax from the Antenna. One is a living room where I have Tivo Mini currently setup with a WiFi adapter. The other is the kitchen where I have nothing but a TV.

The TiVo room would be connected to the TiVo and the kitchen would be just connected to the antenna directly (no need for a TiVo there.) Is it safe to assume I would just need an adapter for the TiVo room and not for the kitchen since I don't need an ethernet connection there?

Also, it looks like the MM1000 are out of stock everywhere. Can I add additional adapters from other manufacturers or am I stuck waiting for the MM1000 to come back in stock? If I don't need to wait for the MM1000, what are some good MOCA adapters that I can add with the same functionality?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Kennyr35 said:


> Also, it looks like the MM1000 are out of stock everywhere. Can I add additional adapters from other manufacturers or am I stuck waiting for the MM1000 to come back in stock? If I don't need to wait for the MM1000, what are some good MOCA adapters that I can add with the same functionality?


Any MoCA adapter should do. I would just recommend sticking with a MoCA 2.0 (or 2.5) adapter. The MoCA 1.1 adapters are pretty outdated at this point. TiVo sells their own branded MoCA adapters, but I think theirs are a little overpriced. I just bought a pair of these: https://www.amazon.com/MoCA-2-5-Gig...1&keywords=moca+adapter&qid=1595686591&sr=8-6

They have been working well, but as far as I have seen they're only sold in pairs. There are other MoCA adapters available. Just search on Amazon for "moca adapter".


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> Is it safe to assume I would just need an adapter for the TiVo room and not for the kitchen since I don't need an ethernet connection there?


Correct, you could connect the TV directly to the OTA-connected coax, assuming a semi-recent TV capable of tuning ATSC. (i.e. not an old tube TV) No MoCA adapter would be needed; the TV should just ignore the MoCA signals.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Kennyr35 said:


> I am looking to add two additional rooms via coax from the Antenna. One is a living room where I have Tivo Mini currently setup with a WiFi adapter. The other is the kitchen where I have nothing but a TV.
> 
> The TiVo room would be connected to the TiVo and the kitchen would be just connected to the antenna directly (no need for a TiVo there.) Is it safe to assume I would just need an adapter for the TiVo room ...?


Do you need the MoCA adapter in the Living Room solely for the Mini or were you looking to supply wired connectivity to other, additional devices? (The Mini could connect via coax/MoCA absent a separate MoCA adapter, of course - though MoCA 1.1 for older Minis and just standard MoCA 2.0 for the Mini VOX/LUX.)


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## Kennyr35 (Apr 29, 2018)

I got it all hooked up yesterday. I have a TV in the same room as the TiVo. Both are connected to a switch for wired Ethernet vs. wireless now.


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