# DVRupgrade HD DIRECTV TiVo Updates Thread



## tivoupgrade

DVRupgrade has succumbed.

I was never happy with the original split between DIRECTV and TiVo, and the DIRECTV decision to develop their own DVR systems instead of using TiVo technology as part of their offering. And it was with that in mind that we never pursed an official DIRECTV dealer status for fear it would seem that we were less loyal to TiVo.

Now that TiVo and DIRECTV have had some time to consummate their _remarriage_, and that it's clear that a new DIRECTV / TiVo platform is off somewhere in the not-to-distant future, I feel it is time to reconsider my stance on that.

So, to make a long story short, we are now an authorized DIRECTV dealer, and with that in mind, I'm setting up this thread as a placeholder for ongoing discussions about the much anticipated _HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo Service_.

I'm actually very excited to have DIRECTV dealer status, and in retrospect, I wish it was something I'd considered sooner. Not because I think the DIRECTV HD DVR is even close to being as good as TiVo's comparable HD offering on a cable system, but because the opportunity to serve those customers most loyal to DIRECTV is also an opportunity to give them access to the new DIRECTV TIVO products when they finally become available.

Although little is known about the specifics of this emerging product, what I do know is that it was originally slated for release in 2009, and earlier this year, it was announced that it would be delayed in 2010.

I've created this thread as a repository for what is known, rumored, hoped for and generally discussed about the product. I've also created a separate mailing list for those who want to receive updates as they are formally announced. One thing I can say for sure is that this thread is likely to be the place I post more often on the topic, vs the mailing list or our sparsely posted to blog.

I've also set up new contact form for those with DIRECTV related questions, tips, rumors, etc. Please note that I don't trade in inside information or futures, nor am I under NDA, so anything I know, that is allowable, will be posted here!

Thanks,

Lou


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## Kablemodem

Dear Sir,

Please send me two (2) HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo Service units immediately.

Thank you,
Kablemodem


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## litzdog911

Good news, Lou!


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## samo

tivoupgrade said:


> I'm still not following. Are you talking about our existing products, or something we might consider doing in the future? Again, how does this relate to the topic at hand? I am not trying to be elusive by any means, I genuinely don't understand the question!
> Lou


I'm not sure what Tyrone was asking, but my interpretation and my question is - what do you bring to the table as DirecTV dealer that wasn't on a table already to justify yet another thread on a topic that has been discussed here in a multiple threads for a long time?
Unless you are after free advertising in disguise, what use is it to the rest of us to know that you are selling DirecTv products?


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## lrhorer

TyroneShoes said:


> Here is a *softball* question to set you up for an unpaid advertisement:





tivoupgrade said:


> I'm not sure I fully understand the question, especially as it relates to the topic at hand. If you can clarify, I can probably give you a better answer.


He was joking, and in turn offering you an opportunity to shamelessly promote your other products in the guise of answering ersatz criticisms.



tivoupgrade said:


> I'm still not following. Are you talking about our existing products, or something we might consider doing in the future? Again, how does this relate to the topic at hand? I am not trying to be elusive by any means, I genuinely don't understand the question!


Again, it was a deliberately clumsy lob into your court, intentionally setting you up for a sizzling return shot.


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## Wil

samo said:


> what do you bring to the table as DirecTV dealer that wasn't on a table already


Great customer service? That wonderful attitude that customer satisfaction is the key to business succcess?


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## tivoupgrade

samo said:


> I'm not sure what Tyrone was asking, but my interpretation and my question is - what do you bring to the table as DirecTV dealer that wasn't on a table already to justify yet another thread on a topic that has been discussed here in a multiple threads for a long time?
> Unless you are after free advertising in disguise, what use is it to the rest of us to know that you are selling DirecTv products?


I want to consolidate the information and discussion. There will be plenty of people coming into this area of the forum that will not see, or be able to find the fragments of information (which are mostly speculation) that are already in existence.

For those in the know, I'd encourage you to post what you know and as you find out about it. And for those who are not, I'd encourage you to ask questions here.

Lou


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## tivoupgrade

lrhorer said:


> He was joking, and in turn offering you an opportunity to shamelessly promote your other products in the guise of answering ersatz criticisms.
> 
> Again, it was a deliberately clumsy lob into your court, intentionally setting you up for a sizzling return shot.


I'm still thinking about the _taint_ comment. That completely made my night.


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## lrhorer

I think maybe you need to get out more often, Lou.


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## awesomeusername

Wil said:


> Great customer service? That wonderful attitude that customer satisfaction is the key to business succcess?


I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read that...

thanks


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## Adam1115

Is there any possibility that the new DirecTiVo boxes WON'T be leased?

My understanding is that it's a complete violation of your directv contract to open up and tinker with the box (that the customer doesn't own), how will DVRUpgrade get around that?

And will it be worth it to people who could just plug in an eSATA drive?


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## tivoupgrade

Adam1115 said:


> Is there any possibility that the new DirecTiVo boxes WON'T be leased?


At this stage of the game, anything is possible. Right now, DIRECTV DVR boxes can be leased, or purchased. I suppose its entirely possible that one of those two options will be taken off the table, but I can't imagine why they would not continue to offer things in a way similar to how they've been offering them. Anything is possible, I suppose.



> My understanding is that it's a complete violation of your directv contract to open up and tinker with the box (that the customer doesn't own), how will DVRUpgrade get around that?
> 
> And will it be worth it to people who could just plug in an eSATA drive?


It's really all speculation right now. For all we know, these units may not be upgradable at all...

Lou


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## tivoupgrade

awesomeusername said:


> I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read that...
> 
> thanks


Many folks prefer to deal with a reseller vs the 1-800-DIRECTV number. We just dealt with a customer that spent hours on the phone with DIRECTV on an issue and was given the wrong information and advice. We were able to solve the problem in 15 minutes. Granted, the 1-800 number is available 24x7, but depending on who picks up the phone, and the type of problem you have, the quality of service can make a difference.

Lou


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## Adam1115

tivoupgrade said:


> At this stage of the game, anything is possible. Right now, DIRECTV DVR boxes can be leased, or purchased. I suppose its entirely possible that one of those two options will be taken off the table, but I can't imagine why they would not continue to offer things in a way similar to how they've been offering them. Anything is possible, I suppose.


I was not aware that new HD-DVR's could be purchased. I thought everything with DirecTV was lease only.

If that's the case, that makes sense.


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## tivoupgrade

Adam1115 said:


> I was not aware that new HD-DVR's could be purchased. I thought everything with DirecTV was lease only.
> 
> If that's the case, that makes sense.


They've always had the option - but it is rarely taken (because it is so expensive). Not sure that there is much benefit to doing that, and then replacing a drive when it is so easy to add a drive using the eSATA connection.


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## moab747

As the satisfied owner of an HR10-250 and the annoyed owner of an HR21-100 I have a few questions. Do the series 3 units use the sps codes like the HR10 and do you think the new Dtv Tivos will use them? Part of my problems with the HR21 would be solved with sps codes. 

Also anyone who has used both these units can tell a big difference in the display quality when using FF & RW. The Tivo is nice and smooth while the Dtv is choppy and laughable. Would you all think this is due to bad coding on the Dtv unit or just a function of the difference in decoding mpeg 2 vs mpeg 4? Would you expect the Tivo mpeg 4 to be as bad as the HR21?


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## stevel

The difference you are seeing is MPEG2 vs MPEG4.


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## shibby191

stevel said:


> The difference you are seeing is MPEG2 vs MPEG4.


Correct. I highly doubt the new MPEG4 Tivo unit to be any/much better. Could be, but doubt it. Besides, I've always found this complaint funny anyway, who cares what the "quality" of a FFW3 is anyway? Just need to see when the program starts again after the commercial and it's more then fine for that.


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## moab747

shibby191 said:


> Correct. I highly doubt the new MPEG4 Tivo unit to be any/much better. Could be, but doubt it. Besides, I've always found this complaint funny anyway, who cares what the "quality" of a FFW3 is anyway? Just need to see when the program starts again after the commercial and it's more then fine for that.


That would be unfortunate if the FF & RW were as bad as the Dtv along with all the other problems. The HR21 works fine for my wife and daughter. They press play, lay the remote down and pick it up when the show is over. For those of us who watch sports and use the remote its a pita. With the chunky replay, hitting play at the right moment is hit or miss. Those of us with the HR21 also know the unit responds to the remote when it feels like it not when you press a button. Except for the missing slo-mo button. Some of the other forums think that the Dtv units are the greatest and people like me who like the old Tivos are just fanatics. I am not a fanatic and I know my Tivo is not the latest or greatest but it WORKS. If as some suggest the Dtv unit cant be improved upon what would be the advantage in going to the new Tivo unit? If DVRupgrade ever came out with a way to add an mpeg4 decoder to my unit I would be the first to send it in.


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## awesomeusername

moab747 said:


> If DVRupgrade ever came out with a way to add an mpeg4 decoder to my unit I would be the first to send it in.


that'll happen


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## moab747

If I'm lucky that's all the new DTivo will be.


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## tivoupgrade

moab747 said:


> If DVRupgrade ever came out with a way to add an mpeg4 decoder to my unit I would be the first to send it in.


Believe me, if it were that simple, somebody would have done it by now. We are not THAT smart, and we are not THAT well funded...


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## shibby191

moab747 said:


> That would be unfortunate if the FF & RW were as bad as the Dtv along with all the other problems. The HR21 works fine for my wife and daughter. They press play, lay the remote down and pick it up when the show is over. For those of us who watch sports and use the remote its a pita. With the chunky replay, hitting play at the right moment is hit or miss. Those of us with the HR21 also know the unit responds to the remote when it feels like it not when you press a button. Except for the missing slo-mo button.


Just depends how you use the unit. I watch a lot of sports on my HR20 and HR21 and don't have any trick play problems. But then I've always found replay and slo-mo useless as I could care less to do such things when watching a game or multiple games. I don't see the need. But that's just the way I use it. I never watch commercials and don't have an issue with the FFW. Again, just how you use it I guess.



> If as some suggest the Dtv unit cant be improved upon what would be the advantage in going to the new Tivo unit?


Because to a few it must be "Tivo" with the Tivo UI and nothing else.  Not saying that is wrong. But Tivo is banking on people switching but there just aren't that many Tivoites out there to make it a huge success. Their ever shrinking market share shows that. But that doesn't mean they can't make money. If they get even half a million units in service that would be a huge boost to their bottom line. DirecTV themselves would barely notice it since nearly half their 19 million subs have the non Tivo DVR already and over 60% of all new subs get one of their DVRs. Not many are going to pay extra when what they have now is "good enough" for them. But if DirecTV can make some money on it as well, it's all good to them, at least that appears to be what they think right now.

This article pretty much says it all on what Tivo needs to do: http://www.multichannel.com/article/439948-Can_TiVo_Reinvent_Itself_.php

Tivo cannot afford years and years of delays as they have had with Comcast and Cox. But they've already delayed it once and it's pretty much been pushed back again later into 2010 ("spring" now they are saying). If they don't have a working demo unit at CES in a couple weeks I'd be very worried about them getting it out by late 2010. Longer they wait the worse it will be.


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## bobbob20

shibby191 said:


> This article pretty much says it all on what Tivo needs to do: http://www.multichannel.com/article/439948-Can_TiVo_Reinvent_Itself_.php


I get a kick out of the part "_TiVo, which popularized the DVR, has watched its core business die off as cable, satellite and telco providers *successfully* introduced their own digital video recorders._"

They're not talking about DirecTV, as their HD DVRs suck. I have an HDTV, but have a series 1 DirecTivo with a 100GB HD I had upgraded myself. So I still have standard def, and want HD recording ability with DirecTV HD service. But I totally don't want DirecTV's HD DVR offering after reading all the horror stories and reviews of their units. All the lockups and reboots I can do without. I'm still waiting for Tivo's DirecTV HD unit in hopes it'd be more stable than DirecTV's OS. I have more trust in Tivo to do the right thing and fix any mistakes resulting in lockups unlike DirecTVs cure which is just send you another unit with the same problem.  

b


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## litzdog911

bobbob20 said:


> I get a kick out of the part "_TiVo, which popularized the DVR, has watched its core business die off as cable, satellite and telco providers *successfully* introduced their own digital video recorders._"
> 
> They're not talking about DirecTV, as their HD DVRs suck. I have an HDTV, but have a series 1 DirecTivo with a 100GB HD I had upgraded myself. So I still have standard def, and want HD recording ability with DirecTV HD service. But I totally don't want DirecTV's HD DVR offering after reading all the horror stories and reviews of their units. All the lockups and reboots I can do without. I'm still waiting for Tivo's DirecTV HD unit in hopes it'd be more stable than DirecTV's OS. I have more trust in Tivo to do the right thing and fix any mistakes resulting in lockups unlike DirecTVs cure which is just send you another unit with the same problem.
> 
> b


I have both Tivo DVRs and DirecTV HD DVRs, and have had zero problems with either brand. Yes, the user interface is different, but not really that much. You're missing out on lots of great HiDef channels. And it could be another year before we're able to get the promised new HD DirecTivo DVRs.


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## shibby191

bobbob20 said:


> I get a kick out of the part "_TiVo, which popularized the DVR, has watched its core business die off as cable, satellite and telco providers *successfully* introduced their own digital video recorders._"
> 
> They're not talking about DirecTV, as their HD DVRs suck.


LOL. Well, 10 million DirecTV customers that have the DirecTV DVR would seem to indicate it was a success. That's 2.5 times more then Tivo had *in total* in it's hayday way back when.

Not sure where you're getting "all the lockups and reboots" reports from. The HR2x's are very stable. They had those problems 3+ years ago. Not anymore. Most complaints now stem from features that people feel are missing or different from Tivo. Not really the stability. Get up to date on your reading.  Sure, some people have unstable units. But a quick look at the Tivo HD forums here reveal the same thing about Tivo products so I'm not really sure what that says. 

FYI that the Tivo CEO said today that it was due out "late in 2010". I'd probably read that as 2011 at this point.


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## fasTLane

shibby191 said:


> LOL. Well, 10 million DirecTV customers that have the DirecTV DVR would seem to indicate it was a success. That's 2.5 times more then Tivo had *in total* in it's hayday way back when.


True. But do you know anyone who willingly forked over 900 bucks for the in house box?


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## shibby191

fasTLane said:


> True. But do you know anyone who willingly forked over 900 bucks for the in house box?


What does that matter? If the DirecTV DVR was so terrible there wouldn't be 10 million people using it. Uptake would have slowed down and people would have been leaving in droves over the past year+.

I guess think of it as Windows. Many people think Windows and Microsoft is crap and Apple is where it is at. But you certainly can't claim that Windows isn't a "success" being that 90%+ of the population use it willingly.


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## stevel

I know people who willingly forked over $800 or so for the HR21-Pro. Otherwise, I have never seen HR2X DVRs selling for $900. Theoretically, it's possible, I suppose. I don't see what this proves, though.

I have both an HR10 and an HR21, and like them both. In no way could I describe the HR21 as "sucks".


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## jhblifestyles

Hi. A bit of help and explanation. I have an original TIVO with Lifetime subscription ($200.) We recently switched to HDDirecTV - However we don't actually have HD on the tv where TIVO is connected. When DirectTV was installed I asked the technician about On Demand and he said I need to have internet connected to the DirectTV which he did for me. I am paying for the HD service as we have a TV upstairs that is HD - This ones on the list  

Anyway, I see nothing in the menu of DirectTV about ondemand. What am I missing?


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## litzdog911

jhblifestyles said:


> Hi. A bit of help and explanation. I have an original TIVO with Lifetime subscription ($200.) We recently switched to HDDirecTV - However we don't actually have HD on the tv where TIVO is connected. When DirectTV was installed I asked the technician about On Demand and he said I need to have internet connected to the DirectTV which he did for me. I am paying for the HD service as we have a TV upstairs that is HD - This ones on the list
> 
> Anyway, I see nothing in the menu of DirectTV about ondemand. What am I missing?


Best to start your own new thread. Provide more information ....
* What model DirecTV HD DVR do you have? Only the newer HD DVRs provide internet connectivity for On Demand downloads. 
* How is your HD DVR connected to your home network and internet?


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## shibby191

I'd also suggestion going over to DBSTalk where the DirecTV DVR experts are. They can walk you thru what you need to check/fix.


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## stevel

You may need to run the network setup from the setup menu to confirm that the network is working. If you have more questions on the HR2x series, I suggest asking them at dbstalk.com.


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## danialpit

The TiVo Series2 DT DVR is a standalone box that can record shows from two basic cable channels, or from one basic cable and one digital cable channel, at once. It has built-in Ethernet to support a wired broadband connection to the TiVo service.


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