# Mad Men "The Milk and Honey Route" S7E13 5/10/15



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Just Don, Betty and Pete. And as powerful an episode as ever.

Matt Weiner continues to surprise us. And move us.

I'll give this an A+, and can't wait for the finale.


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## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

So Don owns next to nothing...no job, no house or apartment, no car, no wife...just a bank account. 

Perfect time for him to assume an identity and start off as someone else.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Didn't he buy an apartment in NYC? Merideth was helping him decorate it in the previous episode. 

So Betty is going to die. I never liked the character, but that still makes me sad, especially for Sally. 

Very happy for Pete and Trudy. I'm surprised she said yes. I didn't realize she still had feelings for him. He's going to be very surprised when he gets to Wichita.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Good episode, but I thought all of that stuff in Kansas dragged on a little too long for the payoff. I am wondering if the last episode will be some sort of jump forward a few months/years, since this episode seemed to be the theatrical exit for Betty.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I really disliked this episode; the whole Don thing in hillbilly heaven was ridiculous, especially his beat down. The all too obvious analogy of his time in Korea stealing Don Draper's identity and the punk thief was just awful. And Betty diagnosed with cancer? Good grief, couldn't they come up with something better to close out the series? Trudy agreeing to get back with Pete was the height of absurdity. Unfortunately, I doubt anything next week can rescue what USED TO BE a great series from the tailspin it's become...it's like the writers were given a sledgehammer named obvious to assault all the viewers who have stuck by this show to the bitter end.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Bierboy said:


> I really disliked this episode; the whole Don thing in hillbilly heaven was ridiculous, especially his beat down. The all too obvious analogy of his time in Korea stealing Don Draper's identity and the punk thief was just awful. And Betty diagnosed with cancer? Good grief, couldn't they come up with something better to close out the series? Trudy agreeing to get back with Pete was the height of absurdity. Unfortunately, I doubt anything next week can rescue what USED TO BE a great series from the tailspin it's become...it's like the writers were given a sledgehammer named obvious to assault all the viewers who have stuck by this show to the bitter end.


Cool post bro.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Poor Betty. I actually do feel bad for her. And of course, Sally too. I assume Don will find out next time he calls Sally.

Surprised Pete took the job in Kansas. I guess Lear must have tossed a lot of money his way to make up for leaving McCaan early.

Will Don even get back to New York? It certainly seems like he doesn't work at McCaan anymore. I'm OK with that. What will happen to Peggy? That's what I am most interested in at this point,.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

While it was a decent general episode, the Don and Betty story lines seemed terrible for a penultimate episode.


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## Bob Coxner (Dec 1, 2004)

I'm with the A+ crowd. Great character development.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

I sorta hate/loved it. It was a jarring episode I'd say. I think I loved it as a first ep to a new series but not so crazy about it being next to last. I also think it was darn near *suicidal* to visit a VFW knowing you could run in to someone that might know you or who you're pretending to be.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> Poor Betty. I actually do feel bad for her. And of course, Sally too. I assume Don will find out next time he calls Sally.
> 
> Surprised Pete took the job in Kansas. I guess Lear must have tossed a lot of money his way to make up for leaving McCann early.
> 
> Will Don even get back to New York? It certainly seems like he doesn't work at McCann anymore. I'm OK with that. What will happen to Peggy? That's what I am most interested in at this point,.


1. I guess there's no point in telling us Betty has cancer if she's not going to die in the finale. But then again, I've been wrong about everything else ...

2. Like Pete leaving McCann. I thought he was in his element and he'd do just fine.

3. Since I enjoy being wrong, I'll go on predicting. I think Don will get back to NYC next week and will be seen drinking with Peggy, Joan, and Roger.



rahnbo said:


> I also think it was darn near *suicidal* to visit a VFW knowing you could run in to someone that might know you or who you're pretending to be.


4. I agree and I figured he'd say too much and/or be recognized. And I was wrong again. Matthew Weiner just doesn't go where you think he's headed.


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## mm2margaret (Dec 7, 2010)

It seems like these last episodes are a bit stilted. I love Mad Men, but in each episode a character appears to end up being dispatched. It's a bit too routine - next week, we'll have more characters dispatched. 

Betty's ending is finished. Pete's ending is apparently wrapped up, and I guess next week, it'll be Peggy and Don. A little too predictable for me.

I also didn't care at all for the scene in which Don is accused of stealing the money. Didn't buy it, and it didn't work at all for me. Nor did him giving away the car (hope he signed over the pink slip, or the kid could be accused of grand theft auto).

Maybe Weiner's got some surprise ending that will tie it up all together, but until now, it just doesn't have the driving theme it needs. I guess endings are hard.

C-


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

mm2margaret said:


> Maybe Weiner's got some surprise ending that will tie it up all together, but until now, it just doesn't have the driving theme it needs. I guess endings are hard.


You may want a grand theme, and that's fine, but Matt Weiner isn't going to give it to you.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

mm2margaret said:


> Nor did him giving away the car (hope he signed over the pink slip, or the kid could be accused of grand theft auto).


I tried not to focus on the little details like I did with the SS card in the last ep but my wife also brought this up. It makes me wonder what the laws were in that area concerning transfer of vehicles. I know for a brief period of time in two states I lived in there was very little you had to do in order to transfer a title. In both FL and SC it was just a matter of signing a document swearing you were the owner. But perhaps that's too logical and either it means nothing, something, or something symbolic. The show, after all, has the pink slip.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

The kid who got the Cadillac has pretty casual ethics to begin with. I doubt he's too worried about having proper legal title.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Did Don say he *used* to be in advertising? He introduced himself at the motel as just Don and not Don Draper.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Marco said:


> The kid who got the Cadillac has pretty casual ethics to begin with. I doubt he's too worried about having proper legal title.


No doubt about his ethics. I would hope they didn't show Don basically lecturing a younger version of himself with that end result for nothing. Where the heck is that bus Don now waiting for going to, anyway? Or is Don/Dick just shedding mortal junk?


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

vman41 said:


> Did Don say he *used* to be in advertising? He introduced himself at the motel as just Don and not Don Draper.


He said it to the kid for sure as they were talking about his ads being in commercials and such but also the implication that he had enough money to do whatever.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

vman41 said:


> _*Did Don say he used to be in advertising?*_ He introduced himself at the motel as just Don and not Don Draper.


That's why you have rewind on your TiVo....


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Marco said:


> The kid who got the Cadillac has pretty casual ethics to begin with. I doubt he's too worried about having proper legal title.


Did they have titles back then? I can't remember going back to the 1960ies having to have a title on the clunkers I owned.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

brianric said:


> Did they have titles back then? I can't remember going back to the 1960ies having to have a title on the clunkers I owned.


Cars definitely had titles then. It wasn't typical to carry them in the glove box though.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

See e.g. The Beach Boys, "Little Deuce Coupe" (1963).



Brian Wilson said:


> One more thing, I got the pink slip, Daddy.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Didn't he buy an apartment in NYC? Merideth was helping him decorate it in the previous episode.
> 
> So Betty is going to die. I never liked the character, but that still makes me sad, especially for Sally.
> 
> Very happy for Pete and Trudy. I'm surprised she said yes. I didn't realize she still had feelings for him. He's going to be very surprised when he gets to Wichita.


Wasn't that new apartment a rental?


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

midas said:


> Cars definitely had titles then. It wasn't typical to carry them in the glove box though.


Just did some checking. Older cars (1999 or older) don't require titles in New Hampshire. And if a particular forum is to believed, titles started in 1973 in New York.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-general/2947163-what-year-did-titles-for-cars-start.html


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## SteveD (Oct 22, 2002)

From what I remember from living in New York, before 1973 you received a transferable registration instead of a title. I don't ever remember the registrations, or titles for that matter, being called "pink slips" in New York. I think that was just a California thing.


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## megory (Jan 23, 2003)

Titles in PA and NJ in 60s and 70s. Signature required for sale. That caddy wasn't old--no fins. Probably mid 60s. I'm sure someone here is more expert in old cars than I am.

I didn't like this show at all. It was a major WTF?

Character building is most useful to me in the beginning of a show In the last chapter,/episode I don't want new problems and new character development. I want the loose ends tied up.

For me, this episode was a waste of my time. It seemed to be a way to make me not miss it when it's gone.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

I guess its more of a generational nomenclature. My grandparents always called titles "pink slips." There is also the possibility that whatever was in the glove box was already signed. Or it could have been a rubber chicken since we didn't actually see it.


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

I have to agree with Bierboy. Trudy and Pete was just ridiculous. Don getting beat up made no sense...why did she let those drunks into his room?! Betty with cancer, I would've rather just never seen the character again. This is not the kind of writing that made me a fan of the show.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

ElJay said:


> Don getting beat up made no sense...why did she let those drunks into his room?!


I could not figure out where her husband was. I guess he told her to let them in, but if so, where was he while Don got assaulted?


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

megory said:


> Character building is most useful to me in the beginning of a show In the last chapter,/episode I don't want new problems and new character development. I want the loose ends tied up.


But Mad Men is a character show! It's had bursts of plot, but it's never been about putting neat bows on stories and having "arcs" and all that. What "loose ends" are you concerned with? And have you stopped developing as a person? Why should Don or anyone else?

The show has always been about character. In fact, one of the biggest complaints I saw during the show's run is that Don never changes, never learns from his mistakes, always follows the same pattern. Here at the end, we see that's not true. Don isn't taking the same fork in the road back to the same result. (At least not yet.) We're seeing a new Don emerge, at long last. And people are still complaining! What better "loose end" to resolve than this one?

I loved this episode.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

megory said:


> Character building is most useful to me in the beginning of a show In the last chapter,/episode I don't want new problems and new character development. I want the loose ends tied up.


Tim Goodman said it better than I could. And perhaps will give you a different perspective of this episode. Full article at the link, a couple of key points quoted below: _(the bold is mine)_

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bastard-machine/mad-men-don-draper-finale-794748


> When you get to this point in a series that matters the way that Mad Men matters in the stratosphere of television, the penultimate episode often lets you know that whatever you might guess, whatever you might want, what your predictions are for the future  they're all pointless compared to the vision of the creator. He or she will end it like they want to end it, and if, in that penultimate episode, you're unhappy or confused about the direction, it's as good a point as any to realize it doesn't matter what you think or want. It only matters  in this case specifically  what Matt Weiner wants.
> 
> As it should be.
> 
> See, this is where viewers often get caught being selfish  there's only an hour (or an hour and 11 minutes) left in one of their favorite shows that they've invested in since 2007, and they are no doubt put off by what could be considered meandering or an emphasis on something that doesn't provide maximum disclosure.* But that's where everyone needs to step back and remember that if you trust someone  in this case Weiner  to tell you a story so magnetic that you can't get enough of it, then you need to let him end it with the same creative flourish that started it. *What he gives you may not be what you wanted, but it's his story.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Let's face it. It doesn't matter what endings the creator gave these characters, some people would be in this thread and elsewhere complaining that the writing was bad or their fates inappropriate. I enjoyed this show over its run, and I'm enjoying watching it end.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

But what's sad is how many of us enjoyed this show through its entire run, but drawing to a close, the writing has fallen off precipitously...


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Jim_TV said:


> Let's face it. It doesn't matter what endings the creator gave these characters, some people would be in this thread and elsewhere complaining that the writing was bad or their fates inappropriate. I enjoyed this show over its run, and I'm enjoying watching it end.


Yeah. I agree with that and yeah, I am enjoying it.
HOWEVER. It does feel rather formulaic at this point and there are a lot of things happening that to me are out of character with the characters.
The moment Betty fell on the stairs I thought ok here we go she's dead.

Given Betty and Sally's relationship - I do not believe she would have given the funeral instructions to her. I think Betty would have given those to her husband. It was touching but I didn't believe it.

Likewise, I don't think Joan would have given up so easily last week - the spirit of the Joan character is that she has typically won in the end.

As others have said, I doubt we will see either Joan or Betty in the final episode. The big question for me right now is it seems Don is going in one direction which makes me wonder what is going to happen to his children.

If Betty dies I would think in the real world he would have custody.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> But what's sad is how many of us enjoyed this show through its entire run, but drawing to a close, the writing has fallen off precipitously...


That's your opinion.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

brianric said:


> That's your opinion.


Damn straight it is.... And isn't that pretty much what these fora are about?


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

I think Don Draper is on his way to re-claiming Dick Whitman, and for the better.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Cainebj said:


> Yeah. I agree with that and yeah, I am enjoying it.
> HOWEVER. It does feel rather formulaic at this point and there are a lot of things happening that to me are out of character with the characters.
> The moment Betty fell on the stairs I thought ok here we go she's dead.
> 
> ...


This is kind of how I saw it. I still like the writing, but some things don't feel right to me (I know it doesn't matter, it's what Weiner thinks that matters). I also didn't buy Betty and her hubby pandering to their very independent teenage girl, him asking her to come home and trusting her with the knowledge, and Betty giving her the instructions after her death. But, I think the payoff was pretty good, with her crying and I think she really realized how much of her mother was in herself (and I think that's the point Weiner was trying to make.

I also didn't buy or understand really, why Trudy took back Pete (btw, I hardly recognized the actress as the same one throughout the series). Especially with hardly a thought about what it would mean to pick up her roots and move to Wichita.

I'll give Don's storyline a pass for now as I think it's going to wind up leading to something bigger.

One other thing on how the only thing that matters is what Wiener things. I think about Lost and how the writers did such a great job for all those seasons, then they took us down such a different road that it "lost" so many of us at the end. The writers supposedly knew what they had planned, but in the end, there has to be SOME pleasing of the fans otherwise, it's going to turn some folks off from your next project.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

frombhto323 said:


> I think Don Draper is on his way to re-claiming Dick Whitman, and for the better.


That's where I think this is going too. I'd almost bet that the last line of the show, he's introducing himself to someone (in Don Draper fashion) as Dick Whitman. I think a lot of the show was him running away from his past life, and in the end, he will finally feel comfortable in who he really is.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> This is kind of how I saw it. I still like the writing, but some things don't feel right to me (I know it doesn't matter, it's what Weiner thinks that matters). I also didn't buy Betty and her hubby pandering to their very independent teenage girl, him asking her to come home and trusting her with the knowledge, and Betty giving her the instructions after her death. But, I think the payoff was pretty good, with her crying and I think she really realized how much of her mother was in herself (and I think that's the point Weiner was trying to make.
> 
> I also didn't buy or understand really, why Trudy took back Pete (btw, I hardly recognized the actress as the same one throughout the series). Especially with hardly a thought about what it would mean to pick up her roots and move to Wichita.
> 
> ...


Maybe you haven't been in his situation. I am a stepfather and watched my wife suffer kidney failure. I dont consider him pandering. He is at a loss. All his political skills cannot solve her medical problem. He hoped that maybe she would listen to her own blood.

Second - I think its perfectly in Betty's character to give the funeral instructions to Sally. Betty is old school so to speak and the women take care of the party preparations so to speak. She may have also felt that Henry would be a mess and that Sally is just as cold as her and would handle things.

I have also found that cancer comes to those that bury stress and that is Betty.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Maybe you haven't been in his situation. I am a stepfather and watched my wife suffer kidney failure. I dont consider him pandering. He is at a loss. All his political skills cannot solve her medical problem. He hoped that maybe she would listen to her own blood.


Point taken, I guess it was a desperation move that maybe she'd fight if her daughter asked her to.



> Second - I think its perfectly in Betty's character to give the funeral instructions to Sally. Betty is old school so to speak and the women take care of the party preparations so to speak. She may have also felt that Henry would be a mess and that Sally is just as cold as her and would handle things.
> 
> I have also found that cancer comes to those that bury stress and that is Betty.


Is/was that a thing? In my experience it's always been the husband who would normally take care of things like this. Never heard of this being a "woman's job".


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## Satchel (Dec 8, 2001)

Steveknj said:


> I also didn't buy or understand really, why Trudy took back Pete (btw, I hardly recognized the actress as the same one throughout the series). Especially with hardly a thought about what it would mean to pick up her roots and move to Wichita.


I think Trudy was seeing she was stuck in life. She commented last week about men treating her poorly as a divorcee...I think she's not in good with her Dad any longer after Pete outed his visits to prostitutes...she felt trapped.

A fresh start in a new, smaller town with a man she's still in love with might seem pretty good...


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

I continue to enjoy the writing and the creativity in the character/plot developments of this show in general and in this episode in particular.

I am biting my tongue by not responding to everyone here who thinks otherwise, as I am not going to convince them and they are not going to convince me.

I agree that this show is Matt Weiner's vision and his career will not be negatively impacted by the finale. I look forward to seeing how he decided to wrap it up. :up:


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> Point taken, I guess it was a desperation move that maybe she'd fight if her daughter asked her to.
> 
> Is/was that a thing? In my experience it's always been the husband who would normally take care of things like this. Never heard of this being a "woman's job".


I think I did not communicate my thought very clearly.

What I meant by old school is that Betty appears to come from a place where you do not show any public emotion. They keep it to themselves behind close doors. The closest she could come to writing a last letter to her daughter was to give her some funeral costuming instructions. Of course the whole affair(ceremony, wake, ...) would be handled by an adult but this is a little thing that was aimed directly at Sally. She did not have it in her to say how proud she was or warm motherly advice. It is very consistent with Betty and old school southern women. I don't remember Bettys particular background at this moment.


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I've been disappointed so far with the episodes as we've been winding down, but this one I really enjoyed.


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## KenDC (Jun 18, 2001)

I'm not sure it was deliberate but I found it interesting that the Men of the era were looked at as strong, silent types and women emotional and in the Betty story line, the women take on the emotional male role and vice versa. In private, of course.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

To me, it made perfect sense that Betty would write to Sally. Betty's always been very vain, so rather than letting Henry screw up her casket viewing, she wants Sally to make sure the right dress, hair, makeup, and lipstick are used.

The only drawback I see to Don returning to the Dick Whitman persona is the whole desertion issue. Don Draper doesn't face desertion charges. Dick Whitman does if he's ever discovered.



> Desertion carries a maximum punishment of dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay, and confinement of five years. For desertion during a time of war, however, the death penalty may be applied (at the discretion of the court-martial). - See more at: http://military.findlaw.com/criminal-law/failure-to-report-for-duty-awol-and-other-charges.html


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I mostly enjoyed the episode but the hillbilly hoedown parts might have gone on a little long. Did anybody else notice that it said, on the side of the tow truck 'Alva, Oakla.'? Did they used to spell Oklahoma like that?

Anyway, I could see the Trudy deal. I think she was trying hard to keep a distance because she DOES still love him. The rest has already been said.

The Betty deal - I think that played out pretty well. She stayed as Betty would be, toward the cancer and toward her daughter. I think Sally gets it.

I don't know if Don is only done with the agency, or done with Don AND the agency. It's looking like the latter, so the final ep should be interesting.

I'd like to see more about Peggy and (separately, of course) Roger but I guess that played out already. Roger will still be Roger and Peggy is going to be large and in charge.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

TiVo'Brien said:


> The only drawback I see to Don returning to the Dick Whitman persona is the whole desertion issue. Don Draper doesn't face desertion charges. Dick Whitman does if he's ever discovered.


Plus there's no statute of limitations on desertion.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Cainebj said:


> If Betty dies I would think in the real world he would have custody.


I was surprised they didn't mention trying to get in touch with Don, since I assume he will have to take the kids. I guess everyone is supposed to know he's on the road. 



Steveknj said:


> One other thing on how the only thing that matters is what Wiener things. I think about Lost and how the writers did such a great job for all those seasons, then they took us down such a different road that it "lost" so many of us at the end.


I think we've had this discussion before. It must be really hard to meet the huge expectations to end a super series like this. Most of them disappoint a lot of us.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Yeah, but even if he goes back to Dick Whitman, who's going to know at this point? As far as they know, DW is dead so it would have to take somebody dropping a dime on him and spilling the whole story to cause any repercussions. 

He won't be able to collect social security I guess, as his SS# is dead along with 'him'. But I have a feeling that nothing he will do will (continue to) have any long-term plan. As long as he stays away from DW's SS# he can probably live his life out.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

TiVo'Brien said:


> To me, it made perfect sense that Betty would write to Sally. Betty's always been very vain, so rather than letting Henry screw up her casket viewing, she wants Sally to make sure the right dress, hair, makeup, and lipstick are used.


Betty doesn't want Sally to have the same issues she went through with the loss of her mother. It's kind of a call back to the first season.

What's the fasion blog going to be like with so much of the episode in OK.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

stellie93 said:


> I think we've had this discussion before. It must be really hard to meet the huge expectations to end a super series like this. Most of them disappoint a lot of us.


I couldn't imagine even trying. It seems nailing an ending to any show is really difficult. As long as its not something as dumb as Dexter I think whatever they give us will be OK.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

sharkster said:


> I mostly enjoyed the episode but the hillbilly hoedown parts might have gone on a little long. Did anybody else notice that it said, on the side of the tow truck 'Alva, Oakla.'? Did they used to spell Oklahoma like that?
> 
> .


Possibly.

The current two letter US state postal codes haven't been around forever. My Mom used to always write "Penna." when addressing stuff to her parents and others living in Pennsylvania. Heck, I bet she would still do it that way today.

Edit: A link to a list of state abbreviations from Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_abbreviations


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> Possibly.
> 
> The current two letter US state postal codes haven't been around forever. My Mom used to always write "Penna." when addressing stuff to her parents and others living in Pennsylvania. Heck, I bet she would still do it that way today.
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, I get that and do actually know all the official state abbreviations. I also get the 'Penn' thing and 'Calif', etc. But I would have thought that the shorter version for Oklahoma would be 'Okla', not 'O*a*kla'. I'd never seen that before and, since my mother is from that state, I thought I was pretty familiar with the different versions of the name of the state.

It's nothing that matters. It just struck me as odd.


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

Is it possible the last episode will be set decades into their future? There is nothing more to learn about their near present. People will change or not. How they change will change very little. More interesting to see where it all led and what might have been.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

sharkster said:


> Oh yeah, I get that and do actually know all the official state abbreviations. I also get the 'Penn' thing and 'Calif', etc. But I would have thought that the shorter version for Oklahoma would be 'Okla', not 'O*a*kla'. I'd never seen that before and, since my mother is from that state, I thought I was pretty familiar with the different versions of the name of the state.
> 
> It's nothing that matters. It just struck me as odd.


Gotcha.

It seems you are right. Oakla wasn't an accepted abbreviation. It was, as you say, Okla


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

zalusky said:


> What I meant by old school is that Betty appears to come from a place where you do not show any public emotion. They keep it to themselves behind close doors. The closest she could come to writing a last letter to her daughter was to give her some funeral costuming instructions. Of course the whole affair(ceremony, wake, ...) would be handled by an adult but this is a little thing that was aimed directly at Sally. She did not have it in her to say how proud she was or warm motherly advice. It is very consistent with Betty and old school southern women. I don't remember Bettys particular background at this moment.


That is a very interesting take on it and you might have changed my opinion. :up:


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

The Korean conflict was not a declared war. It was a "police action", so maybe it would not be desertion during time of war.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> Y It does feel rather formulaic at this point and there are a lot of things happening that to me are out of character with the characters.
> The moment Betty fell on the stairs I thought ok here we go she's dead.


I would call that thematic, actually, not formulaic. Betty has a history with this, after all, having had a cancer scare earlier in the show. And the most important women in Don's life tend to be taken from him by cancer. Anna Draper most significantly, but also Rachel Menken this season and now, it seems, Betty.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Numb And Number2 said:


> Is it possible the last episode will be set decades into their future? There is nothing more to learn about their near present. People will change or not. How they change will change very little. More interesting to see where it all led and what might have been.


That's what I am thinking. Well that at least part of the episode will be set in several decades in the future.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

DeDondeEs said:


> That's what I am thinking. Well that at least part of the episode will be set in several decades in the future.


I think there's a negligible chance of that happening. That would be a huge risk and be unlikely to go well. What are they going to do get an older actor to play an old Don Draper or put special effects makeup on John Hamm and all the other characters playing themselves decades into the future?


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

ElJay said:


> Don getting beat up made no sense...why did she let those drunks into his room?!


I got the impression she thought he was guilty, too. 


Steveknj said:


> Point taken, I guess it was a desperation move that maybe she'd fight if her daughter asked her to.


Exactly.

As a parent I would do absolutely anything to keep my kids from losing a parent, even if it made things much harder for me. That's what Henry was trying to tap into.

I would have liked it if they'd picked up the cancer storyline earlier. It would be interesting to see 70s treatment as opposed to what we're used to seeing today.



vman41 said:


> What's the fasion blog going to be like with so much of the episode in OK.


Rocking and crying in a corner?


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> I think there's a negligible chance of that happening. That would be a huge risk and be unlikely to go well. What are they going to do get an older actor to play an old Don Draper or put special effects makeup on John Hamm and all the other characters playing themselves decades into the future?


I'd like to see an "Animal House" kind of ending which tells us what happened to all the characters after the last episode, but I kind of doubt it will happen.

And I'd love to see them spin off Peggy 10 years later.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I'd love to see a 'Six Feet Under' style ending.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

sharkster said:


> I'd love to see a 'Six Feet Under' style ending.


Best

Ending

Ever!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Well one possible ending clue is


Spoiler



the little round table conversations between the main players during the commercial breaks. John Hamm is looking disheveled with a beard. They tend to do all this stuff right after the very last taping while its fresh in their minds and they are available. John looks very much the hobo or at least somebody who is in deep depression or living in a hut. In other words he doesn't look like Don Draper anymore.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I thought this episode was very good, with a few nitpicks. But generally I thought Don on his road trip, Pete getting a fresh start, and Betty accepting the end with dignity were all pretty good. I don't expect we'll see Pete or Betty again, that seemed like the close of their stories. But will we see Sally again? I'm not sure about that. I'd like to see Sally and Don have another scene together. I also enjoyed having Duck again and found his subterfuge to get Pete to a job interview funny, and also found him a bit sad - still a drunk and still incredulous that Pete was the golden boy.

I'm fine with Trudy going back to Pete. They've been setting that up for the last few episodes. And she never threw him out because he cheated - she threw him out because he embarrassed her in the neighborhood. If they move and start fresh, she leaves that behind.

Nitpicks - the scene at the VA went on too long, and accusing Don of stealing the money was a bit out of left field after they'd been so nice and twisted his arm to stay. It feels kind of mean to kill off Betty, considering she's been unliked as a character.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Well one possible ending clue is
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Might be coincidence because he had that look in another show that might have been filmed around the same time.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

Agree with much of what has been said and I enjoyed the episode for the most part. 

In terms of getting in touch with Don about Betty, it would be impossible. When you were on the road you off the grid back then. No one knew he was at that motel. 

He told Sally he would call next week. I expect he will hear about it then and perhaps curtail his apparent track towards becoming Dick Whitman (or whatever he's doing). I think he cares for his kids somewhere deep down and won't desert them. I also think he's going to take the news about Betty pretty hard. The last episode showed that he still cared for her.

The Peter/Trudy thing, as mentioned, was set up in the previous weeks so makes sense to me. She never stopped loving him, he has seemingly become more mature and she complained about not having friends where she was. 

I did think the VFW scene was way too long just to set up the donation theft.

Will be interesting to see how it ends. Perhaps all the major characters will have one last scene at Betty's funeral, a literal and metaphoric goodbye.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't think the "only" purpose of the VFW scene was to set up the theft.


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## jr461 (Jul 9, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I don't think the "only" purpose of the VFW scene was to set up the theft.


I agree - it did continue to tie Don and Dick's lives together, but still carried on too long.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

zalusky said:


> Well one possible ending clue is * SPOILER *


The show finished filming over a year ago. I suspect those "The Cast of Mad Men" discussions were filmed much more recently. Jon Hamm seemed to grow a beard nearly every season during their hiatus.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

Plus, the actor who plays Pete looked very different hair wise... Modern styled beard, and Pete's receding hairline is gone.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> Plus, the actor who plays Pete looked very different hair wise... Modern styled beard, and Pete's receding hairline is gone.


Good points all!


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## lpamelaa (May 3, 2004)

Mad Style by Tom & Lorenzo:

http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/05/mad-style-the-milk-and-honey-route/


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

jr461 said:


> In terms of getting in touch with Don about Betty, it would be impossible. When you were on the road you off the grid back then. No one knew he was at that motel.


It's not that they should have gotten in touch, it's that they didn't try. Only Sally knows he's traveling and AFAWK she hasn't told anyone.


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## rifleman69 (Jan 6, 2005)

Liked the episode, wife hated it...I think it may have worked better in the middle of the series rather than at the end to give more backstory for the characters (Betty's cancer excluded of course), but we'll see how it all wraps up very very soon!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Robin said:


> It's not that they should have gotten in touch, it's that they didn't try. Only Sally knows he's traveling and AFAWK she hasn't told anyone.


Don's been on the road for many weeks. Based on his call to Sally, it sounds like he's been checking in regularly with her as well as with Bobby and Gene. It's also been a couple months since he sold his apartment and Betty and Henry surely know about that as well. So I suspect that Betty and Henry know he's on the road and know that it would do no good to try and reach him by calling McCann or his former landline number.

Although maybe he's still employing that answering service and he checks in with them on a regular basis. Although I doubt it, since all that would be is a bunch of angry messages from Jim Hobart.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

My mistake, I didn't realize he'd been gone so long. Thanks!


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

Sepinwall and Fienberg's top 20 MM episodes.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Marco said:


> Sepinwall and Fienberg's top 20 MM episodes.


just caught the last few minutes of the pilot. Marathon is underway. Good to see some of the characters that are no longer on the show. Like Sal. Always liked him. And there is Midge, too.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Speaking of Sal, I know it's too much to hope for, but I'd really love it if Sal could somehow be worked into the finale. :up:


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

I liked it. I'll agree with those who say we may have seen the last of Betty and Pete. I suspect next week will focus on Don and will include some kind of sendoff for Peggy, Roger and Joan. 

I've been thinking for a long time that the show will end with Don faking his death, resuming his life as Dick Whitman and turning himself into the Army. I don't know if that will happen now. I don't seem him leaving the kids with Henry once Betty is gone so he'll have to continue as Don I guess.


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## cmontyburns (Nov 14, 2001)

I don't really think that Don has any interest in literally becoming Dick Whitman again. Anna Draper absolved him of taking the real Don's identity and I think for him, that closed the issue. He's Don Draper and will remain so (in my view). The question he's facing now, finally for real: who is Don Draper?


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

DougF said:


> I suspect next week will focus on Don and will include some kind of sendoff for Peggy..


Peggy has already been sent off in the most perfect way. Think they have a better scene for her farewell? I don't.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Numb And Number2 said:


> Peggy has already been sent off in the most perfect way. Think they have a better scene for her farewell? I don't.


I don't think Peggy at the new agency is resolved. She has always been the secondary main character to Don. I would be really surprised if she's not a major part of the final show.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Right. She is the second most important character in the whole show. No way would her story be considered done.


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

Cainebj said:


> I don't think Peggy at the new agency is resolved.


What is left to resolve? She knows the trade. She's gonna work hard while encountering opportunities and setbacks. Our expectation is she'll be successful.


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

jsmeeker said:


> Right. She is the second most important character in the whole show. No way would her story be considered done.


After her confident strut into the new agency what do you think would be a better goodbye scene for her? Hugging Don?


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Numb And Number2 said:


> After her confident strut into the new agency what do you think would be a better goodbye scene for her? Hugging Don?


No..

She has higher ambitions and places to climb to than the job at McCann.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> No..
> 
> She has higher ambitions and places to climb to than the job at McCann.


But we've already seen this addressed. She hired a headhunter who advised her that the best course of action would be to work at McCann for 3-4 years and then she'll be able to write her own ticket to do whatever she wants. So unless the finale jumps ahead several years rather than the typical 1-2 months, how is her ambition going to be addressed?


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

jsmeeker said:


> She has higher ambitions and places to climb to than the job at McCann.


Which they will certainly not explore in the last episode. We already know where she's headed and we've seen how she'll get there. Clients and office politics are secondary to who Peggy is, right now. We know Peggy, the industry knows Peggy and Peggy knows Peggy.

Of course, we shall see.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

I think we'll get a 9-12 month jump and find Peggy doing very well at McCann. There'll be no reason to explain why she's doing well, when Joan couldn't, because of that last scene.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> But we've already seen this addressed. She hired a headhunter who advised her that the best course of action would be to work at McCann for 3-4 years and then she'll be able to write her own ticket to do whatever she wants. So unless the finale jumps ahead several years rather than the typical 1-2 months, how is her ambition going to be addressed?


she might not last 3-4 years. Get bounced out. You saw how they treated Joan. And they thought Peggy was a secretary. She had to wait for a place to work.

It would not surprise me greatly if they did jump a good bit. At least a year. Maybe 2 or 3.


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## bsnelson (Oct 30, 1999)

cherry ghost said:


> I think we'll get a 9-12 month jump and find Peggy doing very well at McCann. There'll be no reason to explain why she's doing well, when Joan couldn't, because of that last scene.


I'm thinking something like this. A little time passes so that we can see where things are headed, but not enough that they have to do crazy aging stuff or try to portray something crazy like the '80s.

Brad


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

whatever happens, I doubt we have already seen the last scene with Peggy Olson


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## DougF (Mar 18, 2003)

jsmeeker said:


> whatever happens, I doubt we have already seen the last scene with Peggy Olson


Yup. She's nearly as big a part of the show as Draper is. I can't imagine she wouldn't be in the finale.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

bsnelson said:


> I'm thinking something like this. A little time passes so that we can see where things are headed, but not enough that they have to do crazy aging stuff or try to portray something crazy like the '80s.


So we jump far enough ahead to see Peggy at her NEXT job AFTER McCann, because we already saw everything we need to see about her near-term at McCann.

Don will have some reason to travel back to New York from California, like Sally's college graduation.

Tearful Alcoholic reunion with Peggy, Roger, Joan at a Manhattan watering-hole.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'm still not convinced that we saw Peggy being successful at McCann. Sure, she strutted a good strut on her FIRST DAY. But that is all we saw.

I agree Don has some motivation to come back. I was thinking funeral. Like for Roger.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> I'm still not convinced that we saw Peggy being successful at McCann. Sure, she strutted a good strut on her FIRST DAY. But that is all we saw.


You're right, but Matt Weiner avoids doing things "on the nose." I'm not sure he feels the need to explicitly show Peggy's McCann work now.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I feel like we've had an ending for every character in their current state. I think we're going to get a substantial (more than 6 month up to several years) time jump for the final episode. I would be totally happy with that.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Watching some of the marathon reminds me how much disliked Duck


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

To me the show has always been about the women and how they changed in the 60s.


Betty stays the same.
Megan goes from Secretary to wife to professional woman via Dons money
Peggy goes from Secretary to assistant creative to copy editor essentially on her own merits
Joan goes from Secretary to partner (via sex) to retired because the world is still sexist
Sally is the TBD - If we jump forward it will be interesting to see what happens to her.

The guys really aren't as interesting. They just sort of tread water character wise.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

jsmeeker said:


> Watching some of the marathon reminds me how much disliked Duck


Spoiler about one of Duck's actions in a previous season, nothing about the finale:


Spoiler



The man deliberately put a dog out on the street and walked away. That's an unpardonable sin in our house.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Dawghows said:


> Spoiler about one of Duck's actions in a previous season, nothing about the finale:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


that episode is on right now.


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## Numb And Number2 (Jan 13, 2009)

jsmeeker said:


> I'm still not convinced that we saw Peggy being successful at McCann. Sure, she strutted a good strut on her FIRST DAY. But that is all we saw.


What more do you need to see? If she is not successful at McCann then so what? She's still Peggy.

The series is not as much about the success of the characters as it is about their strut.

Might be you are in love with Peggy (kissing noises) and can't say good bye.

Peggy and Ashley Broad (Hard Core Pawn) are voice twins.

Ron Goldman and Jon Hamm resemble one another:


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> I agree Don has some motivation to come back. I was thinking funeral. Like for Roger.


Mad Men isn't really a bait-and-switch type of show, but I was thinking that one possibility for the finale would be seeing Don returning to New York for a funeral, leading the viewer to think it's Betty's, but it turns out to be Roger's.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

getbak said:


> Mad Men isn't really a bait-and-switch type of show, but I was thinking that one possibility for the finale would be seeing Don returning to New York for a funeral, leading the viewer to think it's Betty's, but it turns out to be Roger's.


I don't think it will be a bait and switch. It would be well after Betty had died. We would know Don knew about that before we knew he was going to Roger's funeral.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

getbak said:


> Mad Men isn't really a bait-and-switch type of show.


 With the exception of the series premiere!

And actually, Weiner does a lot of misdirection, up to and including last week. He led us down the path thinking Don would be recognized at the VFW ... But no.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Numb And Number2 said:


> What more do you need to see? If she is not successful at McCann then so what? She's still Peggy.
> 
> The series is not as much about the success of the characters as it is about their strut.
> 
> ...


lol

I'm afraid to click that link

I like Peggy. Though not quite in the "she's hot" way. (though I think Elisabeth Moss is rather attractive). I just think that Peggy is important. And so is her relationship with Don. And really, I don't think we've seen all we have ever seen to that relationship.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

jsmeeker said:


> lol I'm afraid to click that link I like Peggy. Though not quite in the "she's hot" way. (though I think Elisabeth Moss is rather attractive).


Have you seen her with a New Zealand accent?

[Top Of The Lake.]


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Marco said:


> Have you seen her with a New Zealand accent?
> 
> [Top Of The Lake.]


I have seen that and am still not sure if I have seen her with a New Zealand accent.


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I have seen that and am still not sure if I have seen her with a New Zealand accent.


Heh. Point taken.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I did a Google image search for that. Didn't find anything... uhh.... "interesting". Am I missing something? Or is accent really accent?


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## Marco (Sep 19, 2000)

I'm not sure what you mean. It's a real miniseries directed by Jane Campion (NZ), and Ms. Moss is a lead. Her NZ accent is passable, or not, depending on who you ask.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Marco said:


> I'm not sure what you mean. It's a real miniseries directed by Jane Campion (NZ), and Ms. Moss is a lead. Her NZ accent is passable, or not, depending on who you ask.


I thought you were asking me if I have seen certain images of Ms. Moss. Images that would get you into trouble if you posted them here.

But really, you were actually asking if I have actually watched this. (I thought it was a movie)

Obviously, I have not.  I think the only other thing I have seen Ms. Moss in was "The West Wing". I liked me some Zoe Bartlett.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Numb And Number2 said:


> After her confident strut into the new agency what do you think would be a better goodbye scene for her? Hugging Don?


I don't know that it would be better BUT all the other characters have been shown dealing with being at the new agency. 
All Peggy did was walk in triumphantly after being somewhat overlooked.
Based on what happened to Joan and that one scene where the other female employees were talking to Joan about her accounts? I think there is something more there. I could be wrong.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> I like Peggy. Though not quite in the "she's hot" way.


I'm about as far away from thinking "she's hot" as you can get.


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## mrdbdigital (Feb 3, 2004)

Interesting read about how the series ending is revealed in the pilot episode:

http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/mad-men-pilot-predicts-the-final-episodes.html?mid=facebook_vulture


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

frombhto323 said:


> I think Don Draper is on his way to re-claiming Dick Whitman, and for the better.





Steveknj said:


> That's where I think this is going too. I'd almost bet that the last line of the show, he's introducing himself to someone (in Don Draper fashion) as Dick Whitman. I think a lot of the show was him running away from his past life, and in the end, he will finally feel comfortable in who he really is.


Don's Cadillac is involved in a wreck and the driver is burned beyond recognition. Children inherit whatever Don has left. Dick moves on.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

Jon J said:


> Don's Cadillac is involved in a wreck and the driver is burned beyond recognition. Children inherit whatever Don has left. Dick moves on.


:up:


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