# New Series3 Update



## TiVoPony

It's time to throw the switch. 

Well, the little switch to start.

The Winter 2006 Service Update for the Series3 platform started going out to boxes this morning.

This first week of the process is our typical "let's give it to some of the people and see if everything is smooth, then we can throw the really big switch". So if you don't have it this week...you'll likely have it soon thereafter. Given the relative size of the Series3 population, it won't take us weeks and weeks to get it out to everyone. As a result, there is no priority list. But you'll be getting it. Soon. 

This update brings many new features to the Series3. But to get it out of the way up front: No, it does not include TiVoToGo or external storage. Work continues in both of those areas, but they're not available with this update.

So what is included? Lots of good stuff:

* TiVoCast - Broadband video delivered directly to your tv set. No PC required.

* Extend Live - When scheduling live recordings, the TiVo service will automatically prompt you to add additional time. 

* TiVo KidZone - Personalize your TiVo menus to display just the shows you pre-approve for your kids - live or recorded.

* Wireless Networking Security - You may choose to use either WEP or WPA security with the TiVo Wireless Network Adapter.

* Product Watch - Have the TiVo service find and deliver relevant product video clips straight to your Now Playing List. 

* Recently Deleted Folder - Accidentally deleted a show? You can go to the Recently Deleted Folder in Now Playing and recover it.

And, I think you'll find a number of bugs and issues resolved as well. 

So, rush home tonight and see if you've received it. If not today, perhaps tomorrow. If you're not one of the lucky ones this week, there's always next week's planned throw of the 'big switch'. 

Remember, I said there is no priority list. Please don't call up customer support asking for the update early. There is no priority list for them to add you to.

And congratulations to the team here at TiVo that put this update together for your viewing pleasure! 

Enjoy!
Pony


ps - Yes, we know it's technically 2007...but it's still 'winter'...and if I say 'Winter 2007' some here would worry it's not coming until next Christmas.


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## hookbill

Thank You Tivo Pony! This is great news!


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## nlowhor

Thanks for letting us know TiVoPony. Nice to have a man on the inside.


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## rdrrepair

TiVoPony said:


> The Winter 2006 Service Update for the Series3 platform started going out to boxes this morning.


Recently deleted folder is back! Yes!!

This will be know as what version TiVoPony?


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## GoHokies!

Woooohoooo!!!! 

Thanks, Pony!


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## hookbill

rdrrepair said:


> Recently deleted folder is back! Yes!!
> 
> This will be know as what version TiVoPony?


It's 8.1.

I just tried to force a call. No luck.  Patience, hook, be patient.


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## CharlesH

When Pony says there is no TiVoToGo in this release, I assume that that also applies to MRV? Or does the term "TiVoToGo" refer to both PC <-> Tivo transfers and TiVo <-> TiVo transfers?

I suspect the TiVo server is going to get hit a lot with manual update connections...


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## ThreeSoFar

I hear one of mine seeking like crazy, and I usually don't....

*crosses fingers*


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## George Cifranci

I am running with it now. *8.1.1.S1-01-2-648*

TiVoJerry mentioned that should cure the reboot loop problem some were having.

Don't be alarmed when it says it could take up to an hour to install the service update. It took around 5-10 min tops for mine.

However, I noticed on the "Search by Title" page when you page down through the list of shows it is still slow. My Series 2 TiVo allows me to page down through the list pretty fast.

However, if this cures some of the bugs I will be happy.


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## vstone

For those that have used the Recently Deleted Folder, how does it interact with suggestions?


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## ScottUrman

vstone said:


> For those that have used the Recently Deleted Folder, how does it interact with suggestions?


Based on my S2 experience, I wouldn't expect them to interact at all. I.e. suggestions live in their own folder, and recently deleted in theirs. But the shows in recently deleted will get reused before suggestions will.


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## ThreeSoFar

Forced calls, and two of our three are downloading a big chunk of something....77%.

The wife will be glad to have the deleted folder back.

Thanks for the update, Pony.


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## George Cifranci

vstone said:


> For those that have used the Recently Deleted Folder, how does it interact with suggestions?


How do you mean?


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## GoHokies!

vstone said:


> For those that have used the Recently Deleted Folder, how does it interact with suggestions?


I think that recently deleted shows are deleted before suggestions, but I'm not positive (both are empty right now, I guess I need to watch more TV to clear out some space!)

Based on how I think I remember my S2 acting... I would assume that this will be the same...


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## yunlin12

George Cifranci said:


> I am running with it now. *8.1.1S1-01-2-648*
> 
> TiVoJerry mentioned that should cure the reboot loop problem some were having.
> 
> Don't be alarmed when it says it could take up to an hour to install the service update. It took around 5-10 min tops for mine.
> 
> However, I noticed on the "Search by Title" page when you page down through the list of shows it is still slow. My Series 2 TiVo allows me to page down through the list pretty fast.
> 
> However, if this cures some of the bugs I will be happy.


How long ago did yours update? I wonder how the speed of search is impacted by Tivo indexing after a reboot.

Can't wait to get this update, Thanks Pony!


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## TiVoPony

CharlesH said:


> When Pony says there is no TiVoToGo in this release, I assume that that also applies to MRV? Or does the term "TiVoToGo" refer to both PC <-> Tivo transfers and TiVo <-> TiVo transfers?
> 
> I suspect the TiVo server is going to get hit a lot with manual update connections...


Sorry about that, I should have included MRV in my note. No video via ethernet or eSata in this update.

Pony


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## daveafree

does this update include the mpeg2 update to combat the ac3 track poblems?


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## GoHokies!

TiVoPony said:


> Sorry about that, I should have included MRV in my note. No video via ethernet or eSata in this update.
> 
> Pony




Any hints on a timeline?

/me ducks and covers before the inevitable s#@tstorm


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## George Cifranci

Pony> It appears the Photo viewer is still showing photos in Standard Definition? Correct?


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## George Cifranci

yunlin12 said:


> How long ago did yours update? I wonder how the speed of search is impacted by Tivo indexing after a reboot.
> 
> Can't wait to get this update, Thanks Pony!


I got mine around 5:30PM EST. So about an hour and 15 min ago. I will try later and see if it is improved any.


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## ThreeSoFar

ThreeSoFar said:


> Forced calls, and two of our three are downloading a big chunk of something....77%.
> 
> The wife will be glad to have the deleted folder back.
> 
> Thanks for the update, Pony.


<marge> Hrrrmmmmm </marge>

Nada. Maybe tomorrow. (Haven't we previously determined that multiple dials in the same day have no chance of getting an update if the first one doesn't?)


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## hookbill

Well I think George was lucky to get his. As TiVoPony said this is a small release. Next week we should see a larger amount of us get it.

I tried a second force call to the server (via wireless connector) and it went through everything in about 5 seconds. So when it gets here it gets here.


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## hookbill

daveafree said:


> does this update include the mpeg2 update to combat the ac3 track poblems?


Are you refering to AC3 tracks via wireless/ethernet or are you talking about digital channels? If your referring to music I think you'll still need to get the plug in for that.

On the channels I had problems with sound TW simply removed the digital tracks that were causing me problems.


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## George Cifranci

A few observations...

When I rebooting the S3 remembered the channels I had selected and unselected. That seems to be fixed. It seems that the graphic icons for the checkmarks next to the channels has been updated maybe? They seem different anyway.

Paging through the Grid Guide seems fast (I can't remember how fast it was before). The only issue is that the HD logo that shows what shows are in HD take some time to appear.

The Digital Photo viewer is not in HD. 

My TiVo didn't go into the dreaded reboot loop like it has been. In fact my CableCards seem happier (but considering I don't know what ECM and EMM counts mean I am not certain of this).

The HD folder has a new icon.

I am not seeing PRODUCT WATCH feature.


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## daveafree

hookbill said:


> Are you refering to AC3 tracks via wireless/ethernet or are you talking about digital channels? If your referring to music I think you'll still need to get the plug in for that.
> 
> On the channels I had problems with sound TW simply removed the digital tracks that were causing me problems.


I am refering to digital channels with audio PID


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## hookbill

George Cifranci said:


> A few observations...
> 
> The Digital Photo viewer is not in HD.


I don't know much about photography but wouldn't the picture itself have to be in HD? And this wasn't on the list of things TiVoPony said would come with this release.


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## hookbill

daveafree said:


> I am refering to digital channels with audio PID


I believe they said that was suppose to be fixed with this release. I guess you won't know until you get it though.


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## CrispyCritter

*MRV works*(a bit, I think). I'm currently transferring a show from an S2. No problems with setting up the transfer. But I press play and I'm just getting a blank TiVo menu screen.

Will update you after the transfer.

Edit: sigh. Not quite there, it looks like. I lost patience and interrupted the transfer, hoping I'd be able to play it then. I have a partial recording of 27 minutes on the S3, but when I play it says it was not able to detect a signal on the channel. I'm currently trying to transfer a complete show.

Edit2: Nope. got the same thing on a complete 30 minute show. It's listed in full on the S3. It has a disk usage of .61 GBytes on the S3. But the S3 is reporting it can't detect a signal.

All the intermediate signs were good: the S3 was reporting the transfer; it was appearing with a blue dot on the S3 now playing list during the transfer... But it looks like something else needs to get done.

Edit3 (the day after): It's clear that MRV is NOT supported in this release. TiVo is still trying to figure out why I can do the very partial MRV that I can; I'm not going to make any more comments until they get back to me.


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## TiVoJerry

daveafree said:


> does this update include the mpeg2 update to combat the ac3 track poblems?


Yes it does.


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## moyekj

Thanks for the update Pony and Jerry. Was wondering if there are plans to add HD only tags to wishlists anytime soon? I didn't see that as one of the new features and I know it's been very frequently asked about in this forum and is something the DirecTivo units had. Thanks again.


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## slimoli

TiVoJerry said:


> Yes it does.


GREAT!! That's my only problem. Thank you very much TIVO and Jerry.


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## Maeglin

Thanks!


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## mbernste

So does, or does not this update fix the reboot loop problem? I never heard anything definitively, only 3rd party. I still have the old version, but I haven't had a reboot loop since Saturday when I did the "antenna"/gs/cc/gs fix.


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## George Cifranci

hookbill said:


> I don't know much about photography but wouldn't the picture itself have to be in HD? And this wasn't on the list of things TiVoPony said would come with this release.


Well digital photos are typically much higher res than even HD (My photos from my Nikon D80 for example are 3872x2592). My XBOX 360 for example will show my digital photos in HD resolutions. I thought at CES someone had said the S3 was running the new 8.1 software and that the photos were in HD resolution. Not a big deal (the bugs were far more important), but I assumed this version would have that feature.


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## George Cifranci

mbernste said:


> So does, or does not this update fix the reboot loop problem? I never heard anything definitively, only 3rd party. I still have the old version, but I haven't had a reboot loop since Saturday when I did the "antenna"/gs/cc/gs fix.


Before the update when I had rebooted my S3 it would usually go into the reboot loop. After installing 8.1.1.S1, my S3 did not go into the reboot loop like it usually did after it rebooted. TiVoJerry told me this version fixes that issue. So far so good! :up:


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## Mike Farrington

CrispyCritter said:


> *MRV works*(a bit, I think). I'm currently transferring a show from an S2. No problems with setting up the transfer. But I press play and I'm just getting a blank TiVo menu screen.
> 
> Will update you after the transfer.
> 
> Edit: sigh. Not quite there, it looks like. I lost patience and interrupted the transfer, hoping I'd be able to play it then. I have a partial recording of 27 minutes on the S3, but when I play it says it was not able to detect a signal on the channel. I'm currently trying to transfer a complete show.
> 
> Edit2: Nope. got the same thing on a complete 30 minute show. It's listed in full on the S3. It has a disk usage of .61 GBytes on the S3. But the S3 is reporting it can't detect a signal.
> 
> All the intermediate signs were good: the S3 was reporting the transfer; it was appearing with a blue dot on the S3 now playing list during the transfer... But it looks like something else needs to get done.


I've seen in the past where you have to force a second call-in to get MRV working properly. Initiate another call on your S3 (and perhaps even the S2). Then try again and let us know.


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## Mike Farrington

TiVoPony said:


> * Wireless Networking Security - You may choose to use either WEP or WPA security with the TiVo Wireless Network Adapter.


I presume this includes WPA2 as well?


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## Adam1115

hookbill said:


> I don't know much about photography but wouldn't the picture itself have to be in HD? And this wasn't on the list of things TiVoPony said would come with this release.


Unless you are using a < 1 megapixel camera, your pictures are MUCH higher resolution than the 480i that the S3 outputs it at.


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## ThreeSoFar

Mike Farrington said:


> I presume this includes WPA2 as well?


I don't. That'd be nice, sure, but he'd have said that if it was the case.


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## Mike Farrington

ThreeSoFar said:


> I don't. That'd be nice, sure, but he'd have said that if it was the case.


Doesn't the S2 have WPA2? If so, I'd expect this release to bring the S3 up to WPA2 as well.


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## BillL

Does anyone know if 8.1 fixes the sporatic pixilation on HD channels? I believe this is a frequency issue.


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## ThreeSoFar

MRV? Really? Pony didn't mention anything about that at all....


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## TydalForce

Hmmmm... check this out:

http://customersupport.tivo.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=bc9ef1b7-1778-469c-b57d-a269f3f6f2b0

TSNs starting with 648 go up to version 8.0.1 where TSNs starting with 649 go up to 8.1
Mine starts with 648 and I have not gotten 8.1. Anybody else?

I wonder if that's simply an oops, or if there's some TSN-related filtering going on?


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## dig_duggler

TydalForce said:


> Hmmmm... check this out:
> 
> http://customersupport.tivo.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=bc9ef1b7-1778-469c-b57d-a269f3f6f2b0
> 
> TSNs starting with 648 go up to version 8.0.1 where TSNs starting with 649 go up to 8.1
> Mine starts with 648 and I have not gotten 8.1. Anybody else?
> 
> I wonder if that's simply an oops, or if there's some TSN-related filtering going on?


648 - no 8.1 (yet).


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## Narf54321

TydalForce said:


> Hmmmm... check this out:
> 
> http://customersupport.tivo.com/LaunchContent.aspx?CID=bc9ef1b7-1778-469c-b57d-a269f3f6f2b0
> 
> TSNs starting with 648 go up to version 8.0.1 where TSNs starting with 649 go up to 8.1
> Mine starts with 648 and I have not gotten 8.1. Anybody else?
> 
> I wonder if that's simply an oops, or if there's some TSN-related filtering going on?


That's just an older list. Your 648 is the S3 model, the 649 is the standard-definition dual-tuner "black grille" Series-2 nightlite model. The series-2 units have been at 8.1 for awhile now.


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## TydalForce

oh I didn't stop to think the S2 would have that number

They're so gosh-darned close and all


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## tazzmission

TiVoJerry said:


> Yes it does.


Yeah, thank you. Now I just need to get the update.


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## Poochie

TiVoJerry said:


> Yes it does [include the mpeg2 update].


Cool. Now I'll finally find out if my problem channel/program was a victim of this, or something else - I saved a program that had no audio via my S3 but others with Comcast hardware heard audio so that I could test it once 8.1 makes it my way.

On an unrelated note, now that WPA is enabled, am I correct in assuming that any TiVo Wireless G Network Adaptor should support WPA on my S3 once 8.1 arrives, even though most online stores have the - probably outdated - warning of "TiVo Series2 DVR only" ?


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## Deacon West

Poochie said:


> On an unrelated note, now that WPA is enabled, am I correct in assuming that any TiVo Wireless G Network Adaptor should support WPA on my S3 once 8.1 arrives, even though most online stores have the - probably outdated - warning of "TiVo Series2 DVR only" ?


Yes, but the packaging is only outdated by a few hours right now.


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## michaeltw

Can FIOS users expect a fix for the oddly paced FF/RW issues?


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## Fofer

Wow, just set up my Series 3 last month, so this new update extends my excitement. Thanks to the TiVo gang. 

Very much looking forward to getting it.


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## Roderigo

Poochie said:


> Cool. Now I'll finally find out if my problem channel/program was a victim of this, or something else - I saved a program that had no audio via my S3 but others with Comcast hardware heard audio so that I could test it once 8.1 makes it my way.


I'm guessing this release won't fix a recording that didn't have audio, as the S3 probably didn't record the mpeg track in the first place. This release would only fix new recordings from those channels.


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## Cainebj

My hope is this fixes the partial recording problem. 
Fingers crossed.


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## Toeside

This is excellent news. :up: :up:


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## SC0TLANDF0REVER

TiVoPony said:


> * Extend Live - When scheduling live recordings, the TiVo service will automatically prompt you to add additional time.


Yay! I'm sure the sports fans will *love* this.


> * Wireless Networking Security - You may choose to use either WEP or WPA security with the TiVo Wireless Network Adapter.


WooHoo - Hopefully things will be smooth as silk when I get around to getting ahold of the new Apple AirPort Extreme Base Station. 802.11N here I come!
Of course .11g will be fine w/ me for the TiVos.


> * Recently Deleted Folder - Accidentally deleted a show? You can go to the Recently Deleted Folder in Now Playing and recover it.


Yes! I like having the backup in case I totally get all thumby on the remote when trying to 'not delete' a show.

Thanks Pony, Jerry, and all of the hard working ppl @ TiVo. We love you guys!


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## Monty2_2001

Thanks Tivo! I really do appreciate you guys, despite my complaining about SDV. Are the pick recording searches faster?


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## mattack

TiVoPony said:


> * Extend Live - When scheduling live recordings, the TiVo service will automatically prompt you to add additional time.


Someone else referred to sports.. Is that the only thing that this is relevant for?

For example, Saturday Night Live is live (err, not for our time zone).. but doesn't need to be padded. (Err, it actually needs to be padded about a minute EARLY, but not later).


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## hookbill

BillL said:


> Does anyone know if 8.1 fixes the sporatic pixilation on HD channels? I believe this is a frequency issue.


Has anybody decided that this is a bug? I still think this is a broadcast issue.


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## rainwater

mattack said:


> Someone else referred to sports.. Is that the only thing that this is relevant for?
> 
> For example, Saturday Night Live is live (err, not for our time zone).. but doesn't need to be padded. (Err, it actually needs to be padded about a minute EARLY, but not later).


I believe it has to be an "event" (like live sports event). I don't know how SNL is tagged but I doubt it is considered an event.


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## Corran Horn

nice, WPA! (WPA2 as well, I hope...)


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## Fofer

mattack said:


> Someone else referred to sports.. Is that the only thing that this is relevant for?


Awards shows too, like the upcoming Oscars...


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## aaronwt

One of my three boxes got the update. I just rebooted it. This S3 was the first one I activated in early December.


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## btwyx

Great, no TiVoToGo, and I've just bought Toast 8 to get the Mac client.


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## SC0TLANDF0REVER

mattack said:


> Someone else referred to sports.. Is that the only thing that this is relevant for?
> 
> For example, Saturday Night Live is live (err, not for our time zone).. but doesn't need to be padded. (Err, it actually needs to be padded about a minute EARLY, but not later).


Sports games are really the only Live Event that I can think of that would require enabling this feature.

I thought of The Grammys/Emmys/Oscars but they all usually have a set time frame and are over by 11PM in time for the news.

I suppose the Presidential speeches could fall under this - that is *if* anyone TiVos the speech. More than likely it would effect shows that come on after the speech, if the networks let them run their entire allotted time.

It certainly would have helped me for the episode of 'Criminal Minds' that I missed the last 20 mins of due to the Super Bowl.

However, I *very rarely* watch Live TV to take advantage of this, and usually only watch the really big sports events (SB, World Series, etc).


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## aaronwt

Grammys/Emmys/Oscars are live. They have run over the alotted time many times over the years. Sometimes as much as an hour over the scheduled end time.


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## Fofer

Call me crazy but I think this new "Extend Live" feature might also be applicable for _live award shows,_ too.


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## Phantom Gremlin

aaronwt said:


> Grammys/Emmys/Oscars are live. They have run over the alotted time many times over the years. Sometimes as much as an hour over the scheduled end time.


But the Oscars are only live on the East coast. And yet they run over on the West coast as well. So I wonder how the padding works in a case like that?


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## George Cifranci

aaronwt said:


> One of my three boxes got the update. I just rebooted it. This S3 was the first one I activated in early December.


 Is it version *8.1.1.S1-01-2-648* ?

My S3 with this update has been running for 11 hours and so far so good. I just forced a reboot to see if I got the dreaded reboot loop problem and also to test if the S3 remembered all the channels I selected and deselected in the channel list and it is working fine. :up:


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## kucharsk

S3 activated in November, nothing yet, so it's not based on activation date.


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## BillL

hookbill said:


> Has anybody decided that this is a bug? I still think this is a broadcast issue.


If its a broadcast issue, then I am the only one with Cox in Connecticut that has a "bad broadcast". Also it only happens on tuner 2. Tuner 1 is fine.


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## rdrrepair

rainwater said:


> I believe it has to be an "event" (like live sports event).


I recorded a show on FOX News Live and my local CBS network News Show and in both cases it asked for a padding prompt - I thought that was odd and then just turned padding off - who wants another step to set up a simple recording?

You know if it's a "live event" - I just record the next program and then delete if not needed.

It's like watching *Cold Case* & *Without A Trace* on Sunday - If I didn't record the Local CBS News afterwards then chances were good that I would mis the end of a program because of Sunday Night Football several hours earlier.

Now if the TiVo could remind you to add padding to shows like that it would be really cool! :up: :up: :up:

Attention: Several hours earlier TiVo detected a "Live Event: Sunday Night Football" Please check to see if you would like to add padding to this show as "Live Events" sometimes run over there allotted times :up: :up: :up:


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## Fofer

I'd love it if TiVo were smart enough to "soft pad" everything it could. In other words, if there are no conflicts anyway, why not just start recording one minute early, and stop recording a few minutes late? That would help for shows like _The Office_ where there's often the funniest bit at the tail end. (Which sometimes gets cut off in the typical "one hour" recording.)


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## hookbill

George Cifranci said:


> A few observations...
> I am not seeing PRODUCT WATCH feature.


Just wondering George. Has this been found/shown up yet?


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## IDSmoker

Fofer said:


> I'd love it if TiVo were smart enough to "*soft pad*" everything it could. In other words, if there are no conflicts anyway, why not just start recording one minute early, and stop recording a few minutes late? That would help for shows like _The Office_ where there's often the funniest bit at the tail end. (Which sometimes gets cut off in the typical "one hour" recording.)


Strange.... I've had that ability on my Series 1 for a looonnnngg time!


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## George Cifranci

hookbill said:


> Just wondering George. Has this been found/shown up yet?


I am at work now, but when I checked this morning I still didn't see it.


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## aaronwt

George Cifranci said:


> Is it version *8.1.1.S1-01-2-648* ?
> 
> My S3 with this update has been running for 11 hours and so far so good. I just forced a reboot to see if I got the dreaded reboot loop problem and also to test if the S3 remembered all the channels I selected and deselected in the channel list and it is working fine. :up:


That's what shows up on my unit that upgraded. It works the same for me as the other versions. None of my boxes had any problems before. The only new things I see is the padding prompt for Live recordings and a Deleted folder. I don't see anything else that is different. I thought it was going to enable downloads or something but I don't see any options for that.


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## cwoody222

My TiVo rebooted last night during 24 / Heroes while I was not home. Even though I know TiVo reboots at 2am for software installs I still thought "Oh! Maybe I got 8.1" (before I even saw this thread)

I didn't.

No idea why my TiVo rebooted... it hadn't in months... Oh well.

Maybe 8.1 for me today... I really want the Recently Deleted Folder back!


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## George Cifranci

cwoody222 said:


> My TiVo rebooted last night during 24 / Heroes while I was not home. Even though I know TiVo reboots at 2am for software installs I still thought "Oh! Maybe I got 8.1" (before I even saw this thread)
> 
> I didn't.
> 
> No idea why my TiVo rebooted... it hadn't in months... Oh well.
> 
> Maybe 8.1 for me today... I really want the Recently Deleted Folder back!


Have you tried to force a few network connections?


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## hookbillswife

dig_duggler said:


> 648 - no 8.1 (yet).


Same here. Though I doubt that list is truly accurate. Anyway the rest of the download should occurre next week.

My husband asked me to post this. He is having a "problem" with his account.


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## randywalters

> TiVo Software is Currently Rolling out to all Series 3 and Broadband connected Series 2 DVRs.
> 
> We are currently rolling out new software to all Series 3 and broadband connected Series 2 TiVo DVRs......


So what about those of us who's Tivo is connected to a phone line instead of broadband? Will we eventually get the update when Tivo dials in during the night? Or do we have to somehow manually get the update? I'm new to Tivo so i don't know how the update thing works. Thanks !


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## hookbillswife

randywalters said:


> So what about those of us who's Tivo is connected to a phone line instead of broadband? Will we eventually get the update when Tivo dials in during the night? Or do we have to somehow manually get the update? I'm new to Tivo so i don't know how the update thing works. Thanks !


You will get it just like the rest of us. You can try and force a call if you like. My husband did but he was unsuccessful.


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## Greeble

michaeltw said:


> Can FIOS users expect a fix for the oddly paced FF/RW issues?


I would love a fix for this, every thing else I can wait patiently for.


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## dbenrosen

My TiVo had called and rebooted all by itself by the time I had gotten home from work yesterday, and it had the update. Rebooted to make sure it wouldn't get in the loop, and it didn't. Though it hadn't been in the loop over the weekend when I rebooted either.


----------



## Rucker

I haven't seen any mention of TivoToComeBack. Is it MIA?


----------



## dig_duggler

So there is MRV? What all is available? Digital channels? HD?


----------



## cheerdude

Rucker said:


> I haven't seen any mention of TivoToComeBack. Is it MIA?


I think that since TiVoToGo is still being worked on, TiVoToComeBack is as well.

Not at home, so I don't know if I have the update or not. If MRV works (as it seems like it is), this would be really great to get back (as well as the Recently Deleted Folder).


----------



## kucharsk

Fofer said:


> I'd love it if TiVo were smart enough to "soft pad" everything it could. In other words, if there are no conflicts anyway, why not just start recording one minute early, and stop recording a few minutes late? That would help for shows like _The Office_ where there's often the funniest bit at the tail end. (Which sometimes gets cut off in the typical "one hour" recording.)


I've mentioned before, an adjustable version of this would be especially useful in locales like Denver, where despite having a start time of 7:00 PM in the listings, the local affiliates actually start all programming at 6:58 PM (even a one minute "start early" isn't enough.) I need to add a "start two minutes early" and "end two minutes late" to *every* Season Pass for a network show in my list. 



randywalters said:


> So what about those of us who's Tivo is connected to a phone line instead of broadband? Will we eventually get the update when Tivo dials in during the night? Or do we have to somehow manually get the update? I'm new to Tivo so i don't know how the update thing works. Thanks !


Yes, it will download it over the phone; you'll notice your TiVo's phone call taking about twentry minutes as opposed to the usual two or three.

Some of us need the 8.1 update to _have_ a network connection.


----------



## ReidWings

No update for me...despite forcing calls about 10 times.


----------



## Cheap Flyer

ReidWings said:


> No update for me...despite forcing calls about 10 times.


I've heard only the people that force an update 11 times in a row get the update...


----------



## swampass2

cheerdude said:


> I think that since TiVoToGo is still being worked on, TiVoToComeBack is as well.
> 
> Not at home, so I don't know if I have the update or not. If MRV works (as it seems like it is), this would be really great to get back (as well as the Recently Deleted Folder).


Can anyone else comment on MRV? So far we've got one account of a partially successful transfer, so I'd hesitate to say that it "works" until someone definitively says that it does.


----------



## aaronwt

So I guess if MRV is activated I can't use it until my other S3 boxes get the update. I guess i could reconnected one of my DirecTV SD boxes to try it out since those have MRV enabled. But MRV only concerns me for HD anyway. Once that is enabled I'm one step closer to dropping DirecTV. I won't need to have two boxes in my main viewing area since I need at least four tuners to be able to record everything I want. Once MRV is enabled i can just use one of the S3 boxes in another room to compliment the S3 in my main viewing area. Although if I could get an S3 for only $400 I would use that in my main viewing area just for OTA but I don't think I'll find an S3 that inexpensive until 2008.


----------



## hiker

Will this update contain changes necessary for the DST change on 3/11?


----------



## bkdtv

swampass2 said:


> Can anyone else comment on MRV? So far we've got one account of a partially successful transfer, so I'd hesitate to say that it "works" until someone definitively says that it does.


TivoPony already said in a post above that TivoToGo and MRV were not in this update.


----------



## CrispyCritter

swampass2 said:


> Can anyone else comment on MRV? So far we've got one account of a partially successful transfer, so I'd hesitate to say that it "works" until someone definitively says that it does.


Yes, it's clear that MRV is NOT supported in this release. TiVo is still trying to figure out why I can do the very partial MRV that I can; I'm not going to make any more comments until they get back to me.


----------



## swampass2

bkdtv said:


> TivoPony already said in a post above that TivoToGo and MRV were not in this update.


True enough. But CrispyCritter did mention that he was able to initiate a transfer. It could be possible that the Tivo team left part of the code for MRV in the software update. Could have been in there for testing/development purposes and not fully deactivated in the released update.


----------



## Cpen

I got the update on one of my S3's this morning - I had to head out to work while the update was installing (screen message said something about taking up to an hour to install).

I just called my wife and she confirmed that there is no MRV. The only addition to the Now Playing screen is the the recently deleted folder.

I had hopes that maybe my Series 2 would show up - but no such luck (my rational being that you can only get SD shows off of the series2 and the series2 can't play HD shows....). 

I have a series 3 and a series 2 on the same network (the series2 had previously been able to trasfer between another series 2 that I owned so it's setup and ready for MRV).

I'll play around with things more when I get home tonight.


----------



## txsteve

Does this mean we will be able to schedule recordings online now? I would have sworn I was able to do it when I first got my S3 but now it's not an option.


----------



## SeanC

Online scheduling has always worked for me.


----------



## dig_duggler

txsteve said:


> Does this mean we will be able to schedule recordings online now? I would have sworn I was able to do it when I first got my S3 but now it's not an option.


You can currently do online scheduling.


----------



## Fofer

IDSmoker said:


> Strange.... I've had that ability on my Series 1 for a looonnnngg time!


Yeah, and I've had it on my pair of hacked S2 DirecTiVos as well, thanks to endpadplus. It also was a feature in Microsoft's UltimateTV product.

"Soft padding" is a basic (yet inherently smart) feature that TiVo has yet to adopt, and I really can't understand why not. It also bums me out a bit that that in "upgrading" from my old DTiVos to the newest, latest and greatest S3, that I'm actually losing one of the most useful features I came to enjoy.

I do hope TiVo watches the hacker community closely, and aims to integrate their best ideas.


----------



## ewilts

txsteve said:


> Does this mean we will be able to schedule recordings online now? I would have sworn I was able to do it when I first got my S3 but now it's not an option.


It's always worked but if you did a lifetime transfer, check your TiVo configurations in your TiVo online account - the TiVo names seem to swap when the transfer finally goes through.

.../Ed


----------



## hookbillswife

Fofer said:


> I do hope TiVo watches the hacker community closely, and aims to integrate their best ideas.


So your saying TiVo gets it's best development ideas from hackers?


----------



## Bierboy

SeanC said:


> Online scheduling has always worked for me.


ditto...that is, on TCO. Not on Yahoo, though.


----------



## Fofer

CrispyCritter said:


> Yes, it's clear that MRV is NOT supported in this release. TiVo is still trying to figure out why I can do the very partial MRV that I can; I'm not going to make any more comments until they get back to me.


So the reason I haven't gotten 8.1 on my S3 yet is because of _you,_ huh? Thanks _a lot,_ CrispyCritter.


----------



## Dajad

Phantom Gremlin said:


> But the Oscars are only live on the East coast. And yet they run over on the West coast as well. So I wonder how the padding works in a case like that?


What you talking about Willis? When I lived in California for 4 years the Oscars were just as live as they are here on the East coast. They just started 3 hours earlier.

...Dale


----------



## Adam1115

Fofer said:


> I'd love it if TiVo were smart enough to "soft pad" everything it could. In other words, if there are no conflicts anyway, why not just start recording one minute early, and stop recording a few minutes late? That would help for shows like _The Office_ where there's often the funniest bit at the tail end. (Which sometimes gets cut off in the typical "one hour" recording.)


You are describing endpad plus. This is the biggest thing I miss from the DirecTiVo's. I'd love to hack the S3 just for this reason..


----------



## bkdtv

Adam1115 said:


> You are describing endpad plus. This is the biggest thing I miss from the DirecTiVo's. I'd love to hack the S3 just for this reason..


I also wish Tivo would add this option. It's the only feature I miss from the FiOS DVR.

With the FiOS DVR, all recordings are padded automatically (2 minutes) when doing so doesn't create a conflict with another program. I don't understand why Tivo hasn't added this capability.


----------



## Fofer

Adam1115 said:


> You are describing endpad plus. This is the biggest thing I miss from the DirecTiVo's. I'd love to hack the S3 just for this reason..


It's best to keep reading in a thread before replying... a later post of mine clarified I was "inspired" by endpadplus, and I expressed the same disappointment that I lost that enhancement when "upgrading" to the Series 3.


----------



## frantishak

Any idea if the guide date may show up with 8.1 and in-the-clear QAM? I am talking about the local rebroadcast HD channels via cable. Right now Tivo can tune them, but no guide data.


----------



## ReidWings

Cheap Flyer said:


> I've heard only the people that force an update 11 times in a row get the update...


LoL...tried an 11th time and got the update! It's installing now.


----------



## ewilts

ReidWings said:


> LoL...tried an 11th time and got the update! It's installing now.


Which means that for the next person, it will take 12 attempts 

.../Ed


----------



## mattn2

Any word on QAM remapping? This is really all I am waiting for.

# Matt


----------



## Revolutionary

bkdtv said:


> I also wish Tivo would add this option. It's the only feature I miss from the FiOS DVR.
> 
> With the FiOS DVR, all recordings are padded automatically (2 minutes) when doing so doesn't create a conflict with another program. I don't understand why Tivo hasn't added this capability.


BeyondTV does the same thing, with infinite +/- on either end of the recording. With three tuners, my BTV box never had to cut anything.


----------



## chedlin

ewilts said:


> It's always worked but if you did a lifetime transfer, check your TiVo configurations in your TiVo online account - the TiVo names seem to swap when the transfer finally goes through.
> 
> .../Ed


And this had me very confused the other day, when it kept prompting me to schedule recordings on my series 1....


----------



## mportuesi

hookbill said:


> Has anybody decided that this (the sporatic pixilation on HD channels) is a bug? I still think this is a broadcast issue.


I always thought this was a broadcast issue. I see it from time to time on my Series 3. But I also saw the exact same thing on the over-the-air HDTV tuner I used previously, whenever there was a weak signal.


----------



## HORUS

Bierboy said:


> ditto...that is, on TCO. Not on Yahoo, though.


I've had a succesful schedule from yahoo before.

Is there anywhere that lists all the upgrades with 8.1? The only thing I've seen implemented for 8.1 is a delete folder? What other features or improvements are there?


----------



## ScottUrman

Check the very first post in this thread.


----------



## Saxion

mattn2 said:


> Any word on QAM remapping? This is really all I am waiting for.
> 
> # Matt


I'll "third" this. Has anyone been able to check for this? A lot of people are waiting for this feature.


----------



## Bierboy

HORUS said:


> I've had a succesful schedule from yahoo before....


I should have clarified -- Yahoo won't integrate digital and cable listings, and, when I select OTA only, the digital channel listings are screwed up. So, yes, it does work, but not as well at TCO.


----------



## TerpBE

This update is really cool! I like the free space indicator and the integrated bittorrent client that downloads movies directly to the Tivo!  :up: :up: :up:










...by the way, this is a joke.


----------



## TydalForce

Oh man, some people shouldn't be allowed to use Photoshop ;-}


----------



## rdrrepair

txsteve said:


> Does this mean we will be able to schedule recordings online now? I would have sworn I was able to do it when I first got my S3 but now it's not an option.


I just scheduled a recording with my Series3 and it works for me.


----------



## rdrrepair

Highlight to read spoiler

...by the way, this is a joke.

Nice joke!~


----------



## TydalForce

Awww.... I logged into SlingBox to force another update, and it took a really long time to apply, but it isn't "Pending Restart"

Grr... Must have just been a big chunk of Guide info... 

(TiVo's IT folks must hate how many forced connections are being sent their way right now...)


----------



## paul01463

I noticed that the IP referred to this release containing "bug fixes". Has anyone seen improvement in HDMI-DHCP session stability?


----------



## ewilts

TerpBE said:


> This update is really cool! I like the free space indicator and the integrated bittorrent client that downloads movies directly to the Tivo!  :up: :up: :up:


There were many clues that this was a joke. Writing Tivo instead of TiVo was just one of many...

.../Ed


----------



## rdrrepair

*


TydalForce said:



(TiVo's IT folks must hate how many forced connections are being sent their way right now...)

Click to expand...

*I have been having an issue with one tuner - I keep loosing the signal - it doesn't happen on the same tuner - I was told to force two connections one before changing the channel and the other afterwards - this I was told would allow TiVo to capture the problem if both calls are made right away.

I wonder how many of these will get flagged as a possible problem or how many with real problems will get dumped?


----------



## tedler

TerpBE said:


> This update is really cool! I like the free space indicator and the integrated bittorrent client that downloads movies directly to the Tivo!...by the way, this is a joke.


You forgot to mention the newly activated eSATA port feature which allows you to archive HD shows off to an external USB drive as well as play DivX files off it.

I guess if all of these options were added for 8.1, I really wouldn't need anything else.


----------



## txsteve

ewilts said:


> It's always worked but if you did a lifetime transfer, check your TiVo configurations in your TiVo online account - the TiVo names seem to swap when the transfer finally goes through.
> 
> .../Ed


Thanks Ed... that's exactly what the problem was! Much obliged.


----------



## bsd

With the exception of Crispy Critter, is anyone else seeing partial MRV functionality? It would be at least marginally helpful to be able to see what is on the other Tivos through MRV even if I can't transfer the shows *yet*.

-Brett


----------



## Mike Farrington

Though it doesn't affect me now because I don't yet have a HDTV....

Are the menus being displayed in a higher definition now?


----------



## rdrrepair

bsd said:


> With the exception of Crispy Critter, is anyone else seeing partial MRV functionality?


If I did have it I wouldn't tell  - I would jut unplug from the network and use it quietly for 13 days before the guide data runs out and then allow it to reconnect - I would rather get 13 days out of MRV and see if it's still there when guide data gets too low for comfort -

BTW: I would then post again in 13 days (Only if I lost the function) to let all know about my experience of setting up the pass-key to get it to work. - not that I have it, mind you!


----------



## bsd

rdrrepair said:


> If I did have it I wouldn't tell  - I would jut unplug from the network and use it quietly for 13 days before the guide data runs out and then allow it to reconnect - I would rather get 13 days out of MRV and see if it's still there when guide data gets too low for comfort -
> 
> BTW: I would then post again in 13 days (Only if I lost the function) to let all know about my experience of setting up the pass-key to get it to work. - not that I have it, mind you!


So, we'll talk again in 2 weeks?!


----------



## Leo_N

bsd said:


> With the exception of Crispy Critter, is anyone else seeing partial MRV functionality? It would be at least marginally helpful to be able to see what is on the other Tivos through MRV even if I can't transfer the shows *yet*.
> 
> -Brett


I believe there were a lot of us seeing partial about 1-1/2 months ago or so. It was something where TiVo had accidentally set one of the settings on the Tivo to a,a,a instead of i,i,i (not sure about the letters exactly, it's been a while) If you go to Messages and settings and then look at system information about a page or two down right at the bottom you will see 3 characters all in a row, that is what had been accidentally changed a while back and maybe it is that way on Crispycritter's now.

What this gave back then was access to Now Playing Lists on S2's, you could start a transfer (wouldn't work however) and I think you could also see the NowPlayingList on TivoDesktopServer if that was running. This is all from memory, if you do a search on some of this stuff with my user name you'll find the older thread when this first happened.

Of course this could always be something new, if so, I'd love to hear more about it.


----------



## rdrrepair

bsd said:


> So, we'll talk again in 2 weeks?!


You might Rabbit - you might. Let's see what day 12 brings.  For my sake I hope you don't get a status report. :up:


----------



## loonyboi

paul01463 said:


> I noticed that the IP referred to this release containing "bug fixes". Has anyone seen improvement in HDMI-DHCP session stability?


I too would like to know about this. I've gotten used to switching to component whenever I watch any non-local channels because otherwise it won't display anything (despite working fine on all channels for a month over HDMI). It's a real pain and definitely a TiVo issue, not one with my cable service or television.


----------



## Leo_N

loonyboi said:


> I too would like to know about this. I've gotten used to switching to component whenever I watch any non-local channels because otherwise it won't display anything (despite working fine on all channels for a month over HDMI). It's a real pain and definitely a TiVo issue, not one with my cable service or television.


I've had both of mine hooked up through HDMI since September with no issues. That being said if yours worked for a month, that does sound fishy. Did you try a new HDMI cable?


----------



## cwoody222

George Cifranci said:


> Have you tried to force a few network connections?


I've been at work since I knew an update was pending so I haven't tried yet.


----------



## TiVoJerry

loonyboi said:


> I too would like to know about this. I've gotten used to switching to component whenever I watch any non-local channels because otherwise it won't display anything (despite working fine on all channels for a month over HDMI). It's a real pain and definitely a TiVo issue, not one with my cable service or television.


If you're seeing a message "Viewing is not permitted using the TiVo Digital Media Recorder's HDMI output. Try another TV input.", it is not a bug but rather how HDMI is designed. This would be the case if your TV is not generating HDCP (High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) or the A/V receiver is not repeating it properly. Unfortunately, all outputs will display the same video, so it can be a little confusing. It will only happen on digital channels that a copy protection bit enabled by your provider, so it's possible they may have made a change recently.

If you have an A/V, bypass directly to the TV during this message and see if it goes away. If it is still present when connected directly to the TV via HDMI, your TV is not generating HDCP.


----------



## Ilene

TerpBE said:


> This update is really cool! I like the free space indicator and the integrated bittorrent client that downloads movies directly to the Tivo!  :up: :up: :up:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...by the way, this is a joke.


I haven't gotten my update yet, but my heart stopped when I saw this screen! I was thinking OMG! This is exactly how I envisioned the perfect TiVo Central to be. 
TiVo Pony or TiVo Jerry - thoughts, comments?????


----------



## MJedi

I got the update!

Except TiVoCast does not appear in the Find Programs... section. And when I go to tivo.com to schedule a TiVoCast on my S3, it says TiVoCast is not enabled on the Series3 yet.

Did someone forget to include this module in the update?


----------



## George Cifranci

MJedi said:


> I got the update!
> 
> Except TiVoCast does not appear in the Find Programs... section. And when I go to tivo.com to schedule a TiVoCast on my S3, it says TiVoCast is not enabled on the Series3 yet.
> 
> Did someone forget to include this module in the update?


I also don't see "Product Watch".


----------



## TomStapes

TiVoPony said:


> It's time to throw the switch.
> 
> Well, the little switch to start.
> 
> ...
> So, rush home tonight and see if you've received it. If not today, perhaps tomorrow. If you're not one of the lucky ones this week, there's always next week's planned throw of the 'big switch'.


Did I miss something? What did TiVoPony mean when he said that next week they would be throwing the 'big switch'???!!???

Could this mean that TTG and MRV is right around the corner, or is it Unbox? Or, be still my heart, both?

Right now I'll just be glad to get my Recently Deleted folder back before my daughter deletes another ep of CSI:


----------



## SeanC

TomStapes said:


> Did I miss something? What did TiVoPony mean when he said that next week they would be throwing the 'big switch'???!!???


He means that currently only a limited number of S3s are getting the update and next week they all will.


----------



## Leo_N

TomStapes said:


> Did I miss something? What did TiVoPony mean when he said that next week they would be throwing the 'big switch'???!!???
> 
> Could this mean that TTG and MRV is right around the corner, or is it Unbox? Or, be still my heart, both?
> 
> Right now I'll just be glad to get my Recently Deleted folder back before my daughter deletes another ep of CSI:


No, he meant that this week they are throwing the little switch (small quantity of S3s being upgraded) the big switch will be the full S3 customer base. They are doing it just in case a problem arises, not every S3 will be affected. Basically a last second larger beta test.


----------



## TomStapes

Yeah, you are right. In my enthusiasm for the 8.1 update, I guess I was being greedy for more.

Nevermind.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

TerpBE said:


> This update is really cool! I like the free space indicator and the integrated bittorrent client that downloads movies directly to the Tivo!  :up: :up: :up:
> ...by the way, this is a joke.


dear sir, you will be hearing from the alphabet soup of organizations that are currently having a fit over content being slung around in such a loose fashion.

with any luck you do not have a license for Photoshop and they can put an end to such horrifying jokes


----------



## JohnBrowning

bsd said:


> With the exception of Crispy Critter, is anyone else seeing partial MRV functionality? It would be at least marginally helpful to be able to see what is on the other Tivos through MRV even if I can't transfer the shows *yet*.
> 
> -Brett


I saw the apparent availability of MRV when my S3 flipped over to Lifetime and the TiVo names were crossed up on the web site. I associated it with the crossed up names and never saw it again after I fixed the names on the web site. Or it all could have been a coincidence...


----------



## wmcbrine

Mike Farrington said:


> Though it doesn't affect me now because I don't yet have a HDTV....
> 
> Are the menus being displayed in a higher definition now?


Sadly, as you can see from TerpBE's screenshot, they've actually lowered the menu resolution.

j/k, I don't have the update yet. But, I have to say, after looking at the HME screens (said to be 720x480) vs. the regular menus, the text on the regular menus looks distinctly cleaner. Text and icons also look noticeably better than on my HR10-250. It could just be better anti-aliasing and increased color depth, but I'm not sure.


----------



## CrispyCritter

Leo_N said:


> I believe there were a lot of us seeing partial about 1-1/2 months ago or so. It was something where TiVo had accidentally set one of the settings on the Tivo to a,a,a instead of i,i,i (not sure about the letters exactly, it's been a while) If you go to Messages and settings and then look at system information about a page or two down right at the bottom you will see 3 characters all in a row, that is what had been accidentally changed a while back and maybe it is that way on Crispycritter's now.
> 
> What this gave back then was access to Now Playing Lists on S2's, you could start a transfer (wouldn't work however) and I think you could also see the NowPlayingList on TivoDesktopServer if that was running. This is all from memory, if you do a search on some of this stuff with my user name you'll find the older thread when this first happened.
> 
> Of course this could always be something new, if so, I'd love to hear more about it.


At this point I'm sure that this is the explanation. TiVo has gotten back to me and said that they found the problem and fixed it at their end. My access has changed from a,a,a to i,i,i when I just now forced a call.

So, same thing as a month and half ago, just with a bit more capability than I got when I tried things back then!


----------



## andyf

Saxion said:


> I'll "third" this. Has anyone been able to check for this? A lot of people are waiting for this feature.


No manual QAM mapping.


----------



## Fofer

Has anyone who's actually received the 8.1 update been able to use TiVoCast or Product Watch yet? So far all I've read is reports from folks who aren't seeing those options.

I understand that TiVoCast is supposed to be under "Find Programs."


----------



## TiVoPony

Fofer said:


> Has anyone who's actually received the 8.1 update been able to use TiVoCast or Product Watch yet? So far all I've read is reports from folks who aren't seeing those options.
> 
> I understand that TiVoCast is supposed to be under "Find Programs."


Product Watch and TiVoCast aren't available just yet for Series3. Very very soon...quite likely next week. Sorry about that. 

More details as they become available.

Pony


----------



## squirrellyman

TiVoPony -- was the issue with audio intermittently getting out of sync with video fixed in 8.1? Or is there a list of bug fixes you can point us to?

Thanks!


----------



## TiVoPony

CrispyCritter said:


> At this point I'm sure that this is the explanation. TiVo has gotten back to me and said that they found the problem and fixed it at their end. My access has changed from a,a,a to i,i,i when I just now forced a call.
> 
> So, same thing as a month and half ago, just with a bit more capability than I got when I tried things back then!


Yep. I said that we continue to work on it. Now maybe you guys will believe me! 

A little slip up on our part, you shouldn't have seen any of that at all.

These are not the droids you are looking for.

You can go about your business...Move along. 

Pony


----------



## terramar

Any word of whether the FIOS FF/Rewind problems are fixed????


----------



## mattn2

TiVoPony,

Since you are here, any update at all on the QAM remaping?

# Matt


----------



## TiVoPony

squirrellyman said:


> TiVoPony -- was the issue with audio intermittently getting out of sync with video fixed in 8.1? Or is there a list of bug fixes you can point us to?
> 
> Thanks!


There is no errata list for any release...it's not a computer. 

I know that a lot of attention was paid to the audio issues that had been reported. Given that audio issues could be a box, or signal, or broadcaster problem...I can't say in your specific case whether it's been fixed (or if what you've seen is a box issue).

You'll have the software soon. Appreciate your patience!

Pony


----------



## TiVoPony

mattn2 said:


> TiVoPony,
> 
> Since you are here, any update at all on the QAM remaping?
> 
> # Matt


No QAM Remapping.

Pony


----------



## TiVoPony

terramar said:


> Any word of whether the FIOS FF/Rewind problems are fixed????


No idea. FIOS is not officially supported for the product. FIOS uses CableCard technology, but doesn't submit their systems to CableLabs for certification. So if there's funky stuff with a FIOS system...it's typically something weird that's been done in their implementation of CableCard.

We've had other FIOS issues here and there, but we cannot create special versions of code for each non-standard implementation. Sorry, but I'm going to guess that it's not. Maybe we'll be happily surprised though...let us know.

Thanks,
Pony


----------



## TiVoPony

moyekj said:


> Thanks for the update Pony and Jerry. Was wondering if there are plans to add HD only tags to wishlists anytime soon? I didn't see that as one of the new features and I know it's been very frequently asked about in this forum and is something the DirecTivo units had. Thanks again.


It's something that we want too, but it's not in this release.

Pony


----------



## terramar

TiVoPony said:


> No idea. FIOS is not officially supported for the product. FIOS uses CableCard technology, but doesn't submit their systems to CableLabs for certification. So if there's funky stuff with a FIOS system...it's typically something weird that's been done in their implementation of CableCard.
> 
> We've had other FIOS issues here and there, but we cannot create special versions of code for each non-standard implementation. Sorry, but I'm going to guess that it's not. Maybe we'll be happily surprised though...let us know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Pony


Strange, my understanding is that any device that uses CableCards must be certified by Cable Labs - so how could Verizon be using cable cards without certification???

Tivo's stand on htis is very distressing. I purchase of 2 S3s the week they're released, lifetime service on one, a 3-year prepay on the other, and now, 5 months after purchasing them, after numerous go-arounds with Tivo tech support where they promise a fix, now I find out I'm out of luck?

If this is the case, I'm afraid I'll have to dump the tivos, and recommend avoiding them to every FIOS user I know. It's sad - I've been a tivo customer since the very first DirecTV model. FIOS is getting terrific market penetration here in Manhattan Beach - I have to expect that will be the case in other cities as it's rolled out nationwide.

As much as I like the Tivo, I'm not going back to DirecTV or cable. The FIOS picture, the phone line quality, and 15Mbit internet feeds for $45/month won't offset the Tivo advantages.


----------



## acvthree

TiVoPony said:


> No idea. FIOS is not officially supported for the product. FIOS uses CableCard technology, but doesn't submit their systems to CableLabs for certification. So if there's funky stuff with a FIOS system...it's typically something weird that's been done in their implementation of CableCard.


Well, this is more than a bit of a shock.

Verizon Fios is fibre to the house instead of fibre to the head-end, but my understanding is that once it leaves the ONT it is considered cable and is covered by all the FCC rules that apply to cable.

Considering that Verizon Fios seems to be the only cable company not going to SDV, I thought Tivo would be thrilled to support Verison Fios.

I guess I was wrong.

Al


----------



## George Cifranci

Mike Farrington said:


> Though it doesn't affect me now because I don't yet have a HDTV....
> 
> Are the menus being displayed in a higher definition now?


I am using my S3 with a 60" Sony SXRD HDTV connected via HDMI using 1080i fixed. I don't see any visual difference between 8.1.1 and the previous version.

That is something I hope they address though.


----------



## mkinzie

TiVoPony said:


> No idea. FIOS is not officially supported for the product. FIOS uses CableCard technology, but doesn't submit their systems to CableLabs for certification. So if there's funky stuff with a FIOS system...it's typically something weird that's been done in their implementation of CableCard.


It's funny - I had Comcast before, and had a lot of problems with channels going blank, pixelization and audio drop-outs. I've since switched to FIOS and all of those problems went away.


----------



## Fofer

acvthree said:


> Considering that Verizon Fios seems to be the only cable company not going to SDV, I thought Tivo would be thrilled to support Verison Fios.


And they very well might be; but from the sound of TiVoPony's post, it's not up to TiVo... if Verizon doesn't submit their systems to CableLabs for certification.

So perhaps you might consider revising that statement:

"Considering that CableLab certification is required for any of these next-gen cable box DVR's to work properly, I thought Verizon would be thrilled to submit their systems for certification."

In fact, considering that they haven't, I'd color myself happy and surprised that the S3 works with it _at all._

(Phew. I finally found a reason to _not be jealous_ of folks with FIOS.  )


----------



## Stevesreed

TiVoPony said:


> No QAM Remapping.
> 
> Pony


That's really too bad. I'd rather have clear QAM mapping than any of the "features" added to this release.

I don't care about MRV, and external Drive. I just want basic functionality. QAM mapping without a cable card is a basic feature, Tivo should get those right before adding all the bells and whistles...


----------



## Fofer

terramar said:


> As much as I like the Tivo, I'm not going back to DirecTV or cable. The FIOS picture, the phone line quality, and 15Mbit internet feeds for $45/month won't offset the Tivo advantages.


Is there an HD DVR out there currently that _does_ work perfectly and officially with FIOS? I'm not familiar with Verizon's offerrings... do they offer a set-top box with time-shifting capabilities?


----------



## jbowden

8.1 bug fix news: The issues with Audio dropouts during program menu scrolling appears to be fixed - I have not experienced any audio dropouts!!!


----------



## sneagle

terramar said:


> ...Tivo's stand on this is very distressing. I purchase of 2 S3s the week they're released, lifetime service on one, a 3-year prepay on the other, and now, 5 months after purchasing them, after numerous go-arounds with Tivo tech support where they promise a fix, now I find out I'm out of luck?
> 
> If this is the case, I'm afraid I'll have to dump the tivos, and recommend avoiding them to every FIOS user I know....


I have FIOS and I am likely to get TiVo's in the future. Your anger is misdirected, I believe. Standards exist for a reason. If Verizon chooses to ignore them, you should be angry with them NOT Tivo.

I am using the Tivo Multi-room DVR and look forward to the day I can spend the money to go back to Tivo. (I had DirecTivo's until I switched to FIOS)


----------



## Saxion

Stevesreed said:


> QAM mapping without a cable card is a basic feature, Tivo should get those right before adding all the bells and whistles...


I totally agree. At the risk of repeating myself , here is what I posted in a different thread:

Seems to me TiVo is missing a significant market segment: Existing HDTV owners who have built-in QAM tuners in their set, and who have decided that the network majors comprise enough HD for them and who aren't willing to pay more to their cable companies for any sort of digital cable. Such a consumer almost certainly won't have any HD DVR solution today, so there isn't any incumbent to replace. They simply want to be able to record the HD that they are watching right now, today, by tuning into unencrypted QAM channels. There is no option today for such a consumer: they can't get an HD DVR from their cable company without upgrading to digital cable, and the S3 is seriously broken for them because of the lack of guide data/Season Pass/Wishlist/etc.

TiVo could serve a very large market of consumers who would be a captive audience (no other options), if only they would fix this.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

TiVoPony said:


> No idea. FIOS is not officially supported for the product. FIOS uses CableCard technology, but doesn't submit their systems to CableLabs for certification. So if there's funky stuff with a FIOS system...it's typically something weird that's been done in their implementation of CableCard.
> 
> We've had other FIOS issues here and there, but we cannot create special versions of code for each non-standard implementation. Sorry, but I'm going to guess that it's not. Maybe we'll be happily surprised though...let us know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Pony


      

My town is very close to getting FIOS TV. I've been holding off upgrading my S2's to S3's until it was in place, and I could say goodbye to Charter. I just managed to get buy-in to spending the money from my wife.

Now I find out Tivo doesn't support FIOS. This really sucks.


----------



## monkeydust

jbowden said:


> 8.1 bug fix news: The issues with Audio dropouts during program menu scrolling appears to be fixed - I have not experienced any audio dropouts!!!


Well, that would be good news. That's my number one issue!


----------



## George Cifranci

Saxion said:


> I totally agree. At the risk of repeating myself , here is what I posted in a different thread:
> 
> Seems to me TiVo is missing a significant market segment: Existing HDTV owners who have built-in QAM tuners in their set, and who have decided that the network majors compromise enough HD for them and aren't willing to pay more to their cable companies for any sort of digital cable. Such a consumer almost certainly won't have any HD DVR solution today, so there isn't any incumbent to replace. They simply want to be able to record the HD that they are watching right now, today, by tuning into unencrypted QAM channels. There is no option today for such a consumer: they can't get an HD DVR from their cable company without upgrading to digital cable, and the S3 is seriously broken for them because of the lack of guide data/Season Pass/Wishlist/etc.
> 
> TiVo could serve a very large market of consumers who would be a captive audience (no other options), if only they would fix this.


TiVo would also have to drop the price of the Series 3 substantially as well. I can't imagine the people who don't want to pay for cable would be willing to shell out $650 plus a subscription fee for a Series 3.


----------



## tomryan

NotVeryWitty said:


> My town is very close to getting FIOS TV. I've been holding off upgrading my S2's to S3's until it was in place, and I could say goodbye to Charter. I just managed to get buy-in to spending the money from my wife.
> 
> Now I find out Tivo doesn't support FIOS. This really sucks.


in the general forum (EDIT, this forum), there's another fios thread where tivojerry is working with fios users to resolve their issues.. so.. perhaps there is some confusion as to how much tivo supports fios..


----------



## SCSIRAID

monkeydust said:


> Well, that would be good news. That's my number one issue!


My number 1 issue is the audio dropout and pixelation problem supposedly caused by mpeg decoding issues. Hopefully its fixed in 8.1. However.... I dont have 8.1 yet... Ive forced connections several times but to no avail....


----------



## ChuckyBox

terramar said:


> Strange, my understanding is that any device that uses CableCards must be certified by Cable Labs - so how could Verizon be using cable cards without certification???


They call up Motorola and ask them to send over a big ol' box full of cable cards. Then they do whatever the hell they want with them.

Cable Labs certification is for derailing or otherwise stalling products that want to use cable-supplied cablecards to access digital cable content on member cable systems.

The MSOs have, as we have seen over and over again, no obligation to implement them properly or with anything but the most grudging, negligent support.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

Fofer said:


> And they very well might be; but from the sound of TiVoPony's post, it's not up to TiVo... if Verizon doesn't submit their systems to CableLabs for certification.


This is just silly. Tivo doesn't need CableLab's permission to support FIOS. Whether they support it or not is totally up to them. Too bad they've chosen not to.



Fofer said:


> So perhaps you might consider revising that statement:
> 
> "Considering that CableLab certification is required for any of these next-gen cable box DVR's to work properly, I thought Verizon would be thrilled to submit their systems for certification."


Perhaps Verizon doesn't have a choice in the matter:



CableLabs Web Site said:


> Member Companies
> 
> CableLabs' members are exclusively cable system operators. They *do not include* competitive network platforms such as direct broadcast satellite (DBS), *telephone companies delivering video services*, electrical utilities delivering broadband services, multi-channel multipoint distribution systems (MMDS) or the like.


----------



## ZildjianKX

TiVoPony said:


> No QAM Remapping.
> 
> Pony


Ever, or just in this release?


----------



## TiVoJerry

Please keep in mind that there are a number of S3 users who already have FIOS and that the original question was around an issue where Fast Forward acts a little oddly on just a few channels. It wasn't a statement of complete incompatability.

TiVoPony's quote is an "if/then" statement:


TiVoPony said:


> So if there's funky stuff with a FIOS system...it's typically something weird that's been done in their implementation of CableCard.


And as tomryan points out, I am working to get an understanding of the issue from those who reported it. terramar and acvthree are just two of the posters I am working with.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

tomryan said:


> in the general forum (EDIT, this forum), there's another fios thread where tivojerry is working with fios users to resolve their issues.. so.. perhaps there is some confusion as to how much tivo supports fios..


Well, I hope Jerry and Pony can talk and get their stories straight. 

Unfortunately, with their official non-support of FIOS policy, I could be left with a $700 doorstop in six months. I'm not going there...


----------



## michaeltw

I saw it on every channel or at least every channel I watch, I took it for about a week and then turned on the 30-sec Skip as an alternate. Now with 8.1, it seems to be resolved on new content. I'll see what happens later tonight after everything has been recorded.

The 30-sec Skip was a good alternative, but I really preferred to just FF, and with a HD DirecTivo in the same setup, there were a few times where I went for the 30-sec skip only to realize it was the DirecTV model and skipped to the end.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

*sigh*


Again, with the wonders of TiVo, Inc. Typical.


----------



## TiVoJerry

I believe you may have been writing as I posted. Hopefully that clears things up about FIOS.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

TiVoJerry said:


> Please keep in mind that there are a number of S3 users who already have FIOS and that the original question was around an issue where Fast Forward acts a little oddly on just a few channels. It wasn't a statement of complete incompatability.
> 
> TiVoPony's quote is an "if/then" statement:


I take this to mean, "It will probably work most of the time, but if (or when) there's a problem, then we reserve the right to say we don't support FIOS and you're SOL.


----------



## ewilts

Re: HD tagging



TiVoPony said:


> It's something that we want too, but it's not in this release.
> 
> Pony


Can you at least put it into TCO? If titantv can have it online, then TCO should be able to get the same info. Surely fixing the web searching is much easier than pushing out new code to S3s. And while I'm talking about TCO, can we get a feature that allows a user to set a default TiVo for all searches? I've got 2 TiVos active and I almost always want the second one used (which has the HD channels).

Thanks,
.../Ed


----------



## squirrellyman

TiVoPony said:


> There is no errata list for any release...it's not a computer.
> 
> I know that a lot of attention was paid to the audio issues that had been reported. Given that audio issues could be a box, or signal, or broadcaster problem...I can't say in your specific case whether it's been fixed (or if what you've seen is a box issue).
> 
> You'll have the software soon. Appreciate your patience!
> 
> Pony


Thanks for the updates. We greatly appreciate it.

I'll post any news (good, hopefully!) about the audio a day or two after getting 8.1. That should be more than enough time to experience it!


----------



## ChuckyBox

NotVeryWitty said:


> This is just silly. Tivo doesn't need CableLab's permission to support FIOS. Whether they support it or not is totally up to them. Too bad they've chosen not to.
> 
> Perhaps Verizon doesn't have a choice in the matter:


So if Verizon's cards don't conform to the cable standard, how is it that you expect TiVo to compel Verizon to implement cablecards in a way that they will work with the Series 3?


----------



## jfh3

kucharsk said:


> S3 activated in November, nothing yet, so it's not based on activation date.


+1

I activated in mid September and I don't have the new S1 release yet ... 

Oh well. My mother always taught me that good things come to those who wait.


----------



## Fofer

I grew up hearing that CableCards would be the holy grail that would free us from cable box hell. They'd eliminate poverty and cure world hunger! I applauded their arrival with the giddiness of a schoolgirl.

Well, considering the new issues with TiVo and 
-awkward setup with many cableco's
-inaccessible SDV channels
-FIOS' lack of certification and "official" TiVo support
-as well as having to wait for CableLabs to (maybe, pretty please) let us have MRV and TiVoToGo again...

...I'm starting to not like these CableCards after all.


----------



## ChuckyBox

jfh3 said:


> Oh well. My mother always taught me that good things come to those who wait.


My mama taught me that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Maybe TiVo forgot about you.


----------



## jfh3

George Cifranci said:


> TiVo would also have to drop the price of the Series 3 substantially as well. I can't imagine the people who don't want to pay for cable would be willing to shell out $650 plus a subscription fee for a Series 3.


Why? If people decided that they could get along with basic cable (with QAM mapping) and/or OTA, the savings from dropping from a digital cable tier to basic could pay for a Series 3 in a matter of months.


----------



## NotVeryWitty

ChuckyBox said:


> So if Verizon's cards don't conform to the cable standard, how is it that you expect TiVo to compel Verizon to implement cablecards in a way that they will work with the Series 3?


The fact that Verizon's card don't have CableLabs' certification does not necessarily mean that they don't conform to the cable standard.

It does bring up a couple issues that I would be interested in getting authoritative answers for. Is Verizon even required to support CableCards at all? If they are required to support CableCards, are they required to be certified? Are they allowed (by CableLabs) to be certified? Are they affected by the integration ban coming this summer?


----------



## johngettler

FYI - I activated just 8 days ago, and I did get the 8.1 upgrade last night (2/12), after my first forced call, after seeing this thread. They probably just release it randomly. I like the recently deleted folder. Personally, I am waiting for external eSATA expansion and better category wishlist searches (HDTV, events, specials), and high res photos. Don't really need the other stuff yet.


----------



## ewilts

We haven't seen anything yet about the HD photo display as to whether it's here or not. Pony? Does this require a PC client change or does the TiVo not support it yet?

Thanks,
.../Ed


----------



## Greeble

michaeltw said:


> I saw it on every channel or at least every channel I watch, I took it for about a week and then turned on the 30-sec Skip as an alternate. Now with 8.1, it seems to be resolved on new content. I'll see what happens later tonight after everything has been recorded.
> 
> The 30-sec Skip was a good alternative, but I really preferred to just FF, and with a HD DirecTivo in the same setup, there were a few times where I went for the 30-sec skip only to realize it was the DirecTV model and skipped to the end.


Oh I so hope this update fixes it. I have the fastforward problem on every digital channel (which is most of them). Wife finds it extremely frustrating, if she knew how much I paid for the S3 she would flip. Unfortunetly I don't seem to be one of the lucky ones which means I'm stuck with this for at least another week, I jus hope its not forever. (Not supporting FIOS seems like a big mistake since it has no SDV plans, if you guys need me to beta test let me know.)


----------



## jfh3

ChuckyBox said:


> My mama taught me that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


I can squeak quite loudly when necessary. 



> Maybe TiVo forgot about you.


As long as they get the release out to those less patient than I am, it doesn't matter.

And every day I use my Series 3, I'm thankful I don't have to use the Comcast 6412 with iGuide to record HiDef any more, so they haven't forgotten about me.


----------



## ZildjianKX

jfh3 said:


> Why? If people decided that they could get along with basic cable (with QAM mapping) and/or OTA, the savings from dropping from a digital cable tier to basic could pay for a Series 3 in a matter of months.


I'm exactly in this boat. I can't get OTA, so I want basic cable for the clear QAM HD channels. I really don't want to have to pay for cable cards. Comcast forces customers here to pay for digital cable to get a DVR, so that's $65 + $12 just to get local channels in HD with a DVR, and that's all I want.

The 8.1 update allowing WPA helps my decision, but QAM mapping would seal the deal for me.


----------



## bkdtv

Greeble said:


> Oh I so hope this update fixes it. I have the fastforward problem on every digital channel (which is most of them). Wife finds it extremely frustrating, if she knew how much I paid for the S3 she would flip. Unfortunetly I don't seem to be one of the lucky ones which means I'm stuck with this for at least another week, I jus hope its not forever. (Not supporting FIOS seems like a big mistake since it has no SDV plans, if you guys need me to beta test let me know.)


Agreed.

The people in charge at Verizon have said they have no plans to use SDV, so Tivo's decision not to support that platform doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. FiOS supports the existing CableCard standard, they just aren't observing the FCC's "integration ban," since it isn't compatible with their IPTV VOD delivery.

Further, I am not quite sure I understand what FiOS' encoding scheme has to do with Cable Labs certification or lack thereof. Fast forward and rewind on FiOS work perfectly fine on the Motorola QIP641x DVRs, which use the same BCM7318 processor found in the Series3. Furthermore, fast forward and rewind works just fine on other CableLabs certified DVR solutions.


----------



## Roderigo

It looks like they solved the duplicate channel bug. I used to have a slew of channels that were duplicated in my guide. Since I got the update last night, they've all disappeared.


----------



## TydalForce

I think it comes down to more of a... Verizon doesn't have to follow Cable Labs' standards, and there's no guarantee that they do. Apparently they're doing so enough so their CableCARDs work, but there's no guarantee that they'll continue to work or that Verizon won't change something down the road. 

TiVo built the S3 to work with the Cable Labs design. As long as Verizon sticks to that, they should be fine. But TiVo can't guarantee it, and can't guarantee a device that isn't certified by CableLabs will work at all.

Having said that, TiVo should make a reasonable effort to keep Verizon's CableCARDs working and happy -- as long as Verizon doesn't get carried away and deviating from the spec. The added carrier support can only help TiVo sell more units (and Verizon sell service to more houses)


----------



## Darthnice

ChuckyBox said:


> My mama taught me that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


I was told, "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."


----------



## jgsx

I didn't get the update initially. I had to force it to connect a bunch (I think around 22 times) and I finally got the update. If you can't wait, just keep trying.


----------



## Toeside

jfh3 said:


> Why? If people decided that they could get along with basic cable (with QAM mapping) and/or OTA, the savings from dropping from a digital cable tier to basic could pay for a Series 3 in a matter of months.


This desicribes us pretty well. For years we've had DirecTV, and our Season Pass List has been 95% OTA. We decided that 5% is not worth $70/month. I sold our HR10-250 and bought a Series3.


----------



## bkdtv

TydalForce said:


> Having said that, TiVo should make a reasonable effort to keep Verizon's CableCARDs working and happy -- as long as Verizon doesn't get carried away and deviating from the spec. The added carrier support can only help TiVo sell more units (and Verizon sell service to more houses)


Verizon isn't deviating from the current CableCard specification. They just aren't supporting 2.0, because it's not possible with their system. That shouldn't matter, since the Series3 is a 1.0 device. I'm not sure why TivoPony would imply otherwise.

Verizon FiOS uses CableLabs' certified Motorola CC1.0 hardware. They use the same Motorola cards that Comcast uses.


----------



## Brainiac 5

Since we're listing our "favorite" problems, does the update do anything for the problem in which the CableCARDs sometimes show an error ("CP Failure" on SA cards) and stop working until the TiVo is rebooted?

Right now I have to "nursemaid" my S3s by checking them every day to see if they've gone into that state, and I still sometimes miss recordings. I'd be thrilled if that were fixed.


----------



## TerpBE

loonyboi said:


> I too would like to know about this. I've gotten used to switching to component whenever I watch any non-local channels because otherwise it won't display anything (despite working fine on all channels for a month over HDMI). It's a real pain and definitely a TiVo issue, not one with my cable service or television.


I have the same problem, but mine worked for about 3 1/2 months before crapping out on me. I've switched to component, but I can see a difference in the picture. I called Tivo about it, and the guy I talked to said it is a known issue and will be fixed sometime in the future.

I'll hang onto the Tivo until I get close to my anniversary date, and if there's not a fix by then I'm going to exchange it for being broken.


----------



## Jazhuis

George Cifranci said:


> TiVo would also have to drop the price of the Series 3 substantially as well. I can't imagine the people who don't want to pay for cable would be willing to shell out $650 plus a subscription fee for a Series 3.


*raises hand, looks at several others already raised*

My S3 is working fine with OTA and unencrypted digital channels. While I've been pondering getting a digital package, it's not a pressing issue. Here's one of my thought processes:

1. Local Fox affiliate only digitally broadcasts 720p OTA.
2. Simpsons, Family Guy are SD shows. Recording them as 720p would waste space.
3. As part of basic cable package, local channels are broadcast as unencrypted QAM (HD and SD).
4. Therefore, manual recording of QAM channel for these shows. (Analog OTA and analog cable are really poor quality vs. even the SD digital)

Unfortunately, it means I have (a) the ugly "Manual" shows in my Now Playing list, and (b) it offers no automated recording control (not recording reruns, for instance).

<return to topic>

Not lucky enough to get _either_ update (neither S2 nor S3) yet.


----------



## dswallow

Jazhuis said:


> My S3 is working fine with OTA and unencrypted digital channels. While I've been pondering getting a digital package, it's not a pressing issue. Here's one of my thought processes:
> 
> 1. Local Fox affiliate only digitally broadcasts 720p OTA.
> 2. Simpsons, Family Guy are SD shows. Recording them as 720p would waste space.
> 3. As part of basic cable package, local channels are broadcast as unencrypted QAM (HD and SD).
> 4. Therefore, manual recording of QAM channel for these shows. (Analog OTA and analog cable are really poor quality vs. even the SD digital)
> 
> Unfortunately, it means I have (a) the ugly "Manual" shows in my Now Playing list, and (b) it offers no automated recording control (not recording reruns, for instance).


Perhaps upgrading to a 750GB hard drive and just recording the SD shows OTA would be a better solution. Just a one-time cost is involved.


----------



## kido

ZildjianKX said:


> I'm exactly in this boat. I can't get OTA, so I want basic cable for the clear QAM HD channels. I really don't want to have to pay for cable cards. Comcast forces customers here to pay for digital cable to get a DVR, so that's $65 + $12 just to get local channels in HD with a DVR, and that's all I want.
> 
> The 8.1 update allowing WPA helps my decision, but QAM mapping would seal the deal for me.


talk to your cable company about getting cable cards with just basic cable. if they offer a hd set top box to tune local hd channels with basic cable then cable cards will do the exact same thing. if your cable co says they don't, that is a policy decision on their part not a technical one.


----------



## jgsx

Jazhuis said:


> *raises hand, looks at several others already raised*
> 
> My S3 is working fine with OTA and unencrypted digital channels. While I've been pondering getting a digital package, it's not a pressing issue. Here's one of my thought processes:
> 
> 1. Local Fox affiliate only digitally broadcasts 720p OTA.
> 2. Simpsons, Family Guy are SD shows. Recording them as 720p would waste space.
> 3. As part of basic cable package, local channels are broadcast as unencrypted QAM (HD and SD).
> 4. Therefore, manual recording of QAM channel for these shows. (Analog OTA and analog cable are really poor quality vs. even the SD digital)
> 
> Unfortunately, it means I have (a) the ugly "Manual" shows in my Now Playing list, and (b) it offers no automated recording control (not recording reruns, for instance).
> 
> <return to topic>
> 
> Not lucky enough to get _either_ update (neither S2 nor S3) yet.


Family Guy still looks much better in 720p then when recorded from my digital sd fox broadcast


----------



## Ivomir

I got the 8.1 update this morning and it fixed some fast-forwarding glitches I was having:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=338035

Ivo


----------



## JoN8282

still waiting here on 2 boxes to get updated - i'm hoping it resolves some very minor audio drop outs on the first box, and a cable card auth issue / reboot issue with the second box -

TIVO I KNOW YOU WILL COME THROUGH - I PROMISED MY FAMILY THIS UPDATE WOULD FIX IT - OR I GET BANISHED TO CABLE COMPANY / CABLE CARD SUPPORT # HELL!!!!


----------



## kucharsk

Still nothing; time for manual connect number eight, about once every two hours so far


----------



## albrandwood

I _really_ wish TiVo would look to see if someone is watching a show before it reboots ...

It should be really easy to detect ... is playback a live feed or recorded? if recorded, wait till it's stopped !!!

It's SO annoying that these updates occur whilst I'm watching shows...

@


----------



## JimPa

Is a manual connect any better than the regular scheduled updates when it comes to getting the download?


----------



## JimPa

albrandwood said:


> I _really_ wish TiVo would look to see if someone is watching a show before it reboots ...
> 
> It should be really easy to detect ... is playback a live feed or recorded? if recorded, wait till it's stopped !!!
> 
> It's SO annoying that these updates occur whilst I'm watching shows...
> 
> @


I wonder if there is some way that you can request Tivo to change the time of your updates? Mines at 12:58 p.m., which usually means I'm sound asleep on the sofa when it updates.


----------



## kucharsk

JimPa said:


> Is a manual connect any better than the regular scheduled updates when it comes to getting the download?


Actually, I don't think so; I think connecting manually only gives you the download if it would have downloaded at your next scheduled connection anyway.


----------



## George Cifranci

albrandwood said:


> I _really_ wish TiVo would look to see if someone is watching a show before it reboots ...
> 
> It should be really easy to detect ... is playback a live feed or recorded? if recorded, wait till it's stopped !!!
> 
> It's SO annoying that these updates occur whilst I'm watching shows...
> 
> @


Maybe they could pop up a message similar to what they do when you go to change a channel on a Series 1 or Series 2 single tuner when it is recording a show or needs to change the channel to record a show. They could pop up a message saying something like "Your TiVo would like to restart now to install a service update" and then have 2 options like "1. Don't restart now, ask me again in an hour" and "2. Go ahead and restart now". If the user doesn't respond to the message in a certain amount of time (and there are no scheduled recordings for the next 15-20 minutes) then it will restart on its own.

Although in the case of the 8.1.1 update, I couldn't download it and install it fast enough because I was hopeful it would fix some nasty bugs and add stability (and it has).


----------



## George Cifranci

This morning I went downstairs and turned on my Sony SXRD and the message on the TiVo was that HDMI message "Viewing isn't permitted using the HDMI input try using another input (or something to that effect). I NEVER saw that before (I just installed the 8.1.1 update about 36 hours ago). I was able to fix it by switching to another input on my HDTV and then switching back to the input the TIVO uses. The S3 is connected directly to my Sony SXRD (R60XBR1) HDTV via HDMI. 

I don't know if that is related to the update but I had never received that message before the update.


----------



## cwoody222

Forcing update.... no update for me yet...


----------



## minckster

albrandwood said:


> I _really_ wish TiVo would look to see if someone is watching a show before it reboots ...
> 
> It should be really easy to detect ... is playback a live feed or recorded? if recorded, wait till it's stopped !!!
> 
> It's SO annoying that these updates occur whilst I'm watching shows...
> 
> @


I would like this too, but wonder if TiVo is reluctant to provide a method with which the _really_ motivated could avoid a service update indefinitely - for example, by replying _every_ time the box asks, "I'm watching now. Install the update later."


----------



## hookbill

George last report I saw you still were not receiving TiVoCast. Did you find it, and is it working?

Just curious and if you answered already on this I apologize for the duplicate post. There have been quite a few of those on this thread.


----------



## Mike Farrington

minckster said:


> I would like this too, but wonder if TiVo is reluctant to provide a method with which the _really_ motivated could avoid a service update indefinitely - for example, by replying _every_ time the box asks, "I'm watching now. Install the update later."


If someone has the energy to babysit their TiVo 24x7, then all the power to them.


----------



## GoHokies!

hookbill said:


> George last report I saw you still were not receiving TiVoCast. Did you find it, and is it working?
> 
> Just curious and if you answered already on this I apologize for the duplicate post. There have been quite a few of those on this thread.


Somewhere in here Tivo-someone posted that TivoCast wasn't quite ready isn't included (but expected soon).

Edit: Found it:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4870338&&#post4870338


----------



## Fofer

GoHokies! said:


> Somewhere in here Tivo-someone posted that TivoCast wasn't quite ready isn't included (but expected soon).
> 
> Edit: Found it:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4870338&&#post4870338


I believe TiVoCast software actually is included in the update but Series 3 boxes won't have the ability to subscribe to anything (ie: see it in their menu) until TiVo pulls some other switch sometime soon.


----------



## hookbill

Thanks guys. I actually did read that but forgot.


----------



## Animgif

Still no update for me...I'm holding out hope for it soon!


----------



## hookbill

Animgif said:


> Still no update for me...I'm holding out hope for it soon!


I haven't got mine yet either but keep in mind that only a limited releases are going out this week. Probably you will receive it next week.

Still, I'm checking daily.   I'm not forcing anymore calls however. I figure when it gets here it gets here. I'm pretty happy with the way its working now anyway.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Animgif said:



> Still no update for me...I'm holding out hope for it soon!


Me either.... You'd think they would want folks with open service tickets to get the code and see if their issue is fixed.


----------



## hookbill

SCSIRAID said:


> Me either.... You'd think they would want folks with open service tickets to get the code and see if their issue is fixed.


No priority list per Pony.

You'd think they would want to get it to me just because, well, I'm me! 

Seriously SCISRAID you've been around a bit. You know how these things go. Think about if it was like a Series 2 update it may take months. In a sense we're lucky.


----------



## Animgif

hookbill said:


> Seriously SCISRAID you've been around a bit. You know how these things go. Think about if it was like a Series 2 update it may take months. In a sense we're lucky.


That is the benefit of there only being a few Series 3 TiVo units out there.


----------



## Adam1115

kido said:


> talk to your cable company about getting cable cards with just basic cable. if they offer a hd set top box to tune local hd channels with basic cable then cable cards will do the exact same thing. if your cable co says they don't, that is a policy decision on their part not a technical one.


No, the cablecard does not do the 'exact same thing.'

You do NOT need a cablecard to tune your local digital channels. You also don't need them to get guide data on a QAM capable TV. It really isn't they cable companies responsibility to provide cablecards as a workaround to a technical limitation of the Series3.

The ONLY reason they should be providing cablecards is if you subscribe to a encrypted digital package, which needs decrypted, which is what the cablecards are for...


----------



## bkdtv

Adam1115 said:


> You do NOT need a cablecard to tune your local digital channels. You also don't need them to get guide data on a QAM capable TV. It really isn't they cable companies responsibility to provide cablecards as a workaround to a technical limitation of the Series3.


Actually, you will need CableCards to get guide data from your cable provider.

Currently, displays are unidirectional OpenCable, which means they can't pull guide information from the cable provider regardless. The unidirectional CableCard device -- be it Tivo or the TV -- has to get guide data from somewhere else. Tivo provides its own guide information, while most TVs support the Gemstar TVGoS service broadcast over the airwaves (not available in all areas).

That will all change with OpenCable 2.0, when bidirectional CableCard devices will be able to pull guide information directly from the cable provider. QAM alone won't be able to do that.


----------



## George Cifranci

Yup. When I would reboot my S3 and then try to go into LIVE TV immediately I would see a blue screen with the spinning pinwheel that says something like "Downloading Channel information" or something like that.


----------



## JohnBrowning

terramar said:


> Strange, my understanding is that any device that uses CableCards must be certified by Cable Labs - so how could Verizon be using cable cards without certification???
> 
> Tivo's stand on htis is very distressing. I purchase of 2 S3s the week they're released, lifetime service on one, a 3-year prepay on the other, and now, 5 months after purchasing them, after numerous go-arounds with Tivo tech support where they promise a fix, now I find out I'm out of luck?
> 
> If this is the case, I'm afraid I'll have to dump the tivos, and recommend avoiding them to every FIOS user I know. It's sad - I've been a tivo customer since the very first DirecTV model. FIOS is getting terrific market penetration here in Manhattan Beach - I have to expect that will be the case in other cities as it's rolled out nationwide.
> 
> As much as I like the Tivo, I'm not going back to DirecTV or cable. The FIOS picture, the phone line quality, and 15Mbit internet feeds for $45/month won't offset the Tivo advantages.


Wow! Talk about over-reaction! The minimal issues I have with both Series3 and FiOS are not near sufficient to make me drop or diss either one.


----------



## cgould

ZildjianKX said:


> I'm exactly in this boat. I can't get OTA, so I want basic cable for the clear QAM HD channels. I really don't want to have to pay for cable cards. Comcast forces customers here to pay for digital cable to get a DVR, so that's $65 + $12 just to get local channels in HD with a DVR, and that's all I want.
> 
> The 8.1 update allowing WPA helps my decision, but QAM mapping would seal the deal for me.


Comcast forces many customers to get FULL analog cable, and digital cable, for THEIR DVR, but not for Tivo.
You should be able to get CableCards w/ just Limited Basic (~$15) cable. You might need to also get Digital Classic *tier* (not the full package on top of full analog cable, but JUST the digital tier added to Limited basic.) That would be just another $10-12, and you get all the HD/digital channels not just the local broadcast in HD.
Call the CSRs again and push.


----------



## alex_kac

tomryan said:


> in the general forum (EDIT, this forum), there's another fios thread where tivojerry is working with fios users to resolve their issues.. so.. perhaps there is some confusion as to how much tivo supports fios..


TivoPony did say "officially" support.


----------



## dnorth12

Don't have the update yet and am curious if the guide data and search feature moves any faster. Anyone have any info on that? I know the most recent update to the S2 fixed that issue with the S2.


----------



## kjmcdonald

NotVeryWitty said:


> The fact that Verizon's card don't have CableLabs' certification does not necessarily mean that they don't conform to the cable standard.


It also doesn't mean they do. Or that if they do conform today, that they will continue to conform tomorrow.

You're asking TiVo to support a platform that (theoretically) is a moving target, with no promise from Verizon to work a certain way for any period of time, or to even work the same way in all of it's locations.

For tivo to support it, they'd need to setup a whole second test environment configured the way FIOS operates and validate all there software changes on both systems. If there are variations in FIOS setups then that testing would have to be duplicated even more.

Without a promise (or certification) from Verizon on how it's CableCARDs will work now and in the future, Tivo can't make a promise (official staement of support) to any of it's customers.

Just because they don't promise to support it, is not the same as saying they promise not to support it. I hear them saying they are doing what they can, but that there are no promises.

I believe most issues will be fixable by them, and I will attempt to move my S3's to FIOS when I have the chance. I won't be upset with them though when it doesn't work. I'll be upset with Verizon for not following the standard.



> It does bring up a couple issues that I would be interested in getting authoritative answers for. Is Verizon even required to support CableCards at all? If they are required to support CableCards, are they required to be certified? Are they allowed (by CableLabs) to be certified? Are they affected by the integration ban coming this summer?


I believe someone else posted that Verizon is not allowed to join CableLabs even if they wanted to. That's a shame and I therefor transfer part of the blame to CableLabs and the MSO's that run it. At the same time, the majority of the blame falls on Verizon, since the Specs are available, and with the possible exception of ambiguities and misinterpretation, there's no excuse for not following the Standard, and verifying it internally.

-Kyle


----------



## CrispyCritter

alex_kac said:


> TivoPony did say "officially" support.


Yes. No company will "officially" support interaction with another company's products unless
1. the other company has committed to an open standard or
2. there's an agreement between the two companies.

I had thought Verizon had committed to CableCard, but it looks like I'm wrong. So TiVo can't officially support Verizon.

Edit: kjm said the same thing much better and fully while I was off doing other things!


----------



## kjmcdonald

NotVeryWitty said:


> I take this to mean, "It will probably work most of the time, but if (or when) there's a problem, then we reserve the right to say we don't support FIOS and you're SOL.


The response might be worded that way. However I'd be more inclined to expect "we can't fix that problem on FIOS without breaking somethig for Cable.", or "We can't fix that problem on FIOS with out a huge amount of time and expense", or "We can't reproduce that problem, and therefor can't debug it and can't find a fix."

Although even if those are the real reasons, do to limits on public statements by companies, you still may only hear "We don't [officially] support FIOS at this time."

-Kyle


----------



## kjmcdonald

bkdtv said:


> Verizon isn't deviating from the current CableCard specification. They just aren't supporting 2.0, because it's not possible with their system. That shouldn't matter, since the Series3 is a 1.0 device. I'm not sure why TivoPony would imply otherwise.
> 
> Verizon FiOS uses CableLabs' certified Motorola CC1.0 hardware. They use the same Motorola cards that Comcast uses.


That doesn't mean that the Verizon Network is configured 100% the same as the spec, or that the protocol meta-data transmitted is compliant with the spec.

It also doesn't mean that Verizon has made any commitment to meet the spec, or to continue to keep up even the similiarity to the spec that they have today.

ON the provider side there's more to being CableCARD certified than just using cerrtified STB's.

-Kyle


----------



## kjmcdonald

Adam1115 said:


> No, the cablecard does not do the 'exact same thing.'
> 
> You do NOT need a cablecard to tune your local digital channels. You also don't need them to get guide data on a QAM capable TV. It really isn't they cable companies responsibility to provide cablecards as a workaround to a technical limitation of the Series3.


CableCARDs don't do any tuning. They only prove to the MSO who you are (ie. what account you have.) and decrypt the encrypted channels.

Unfortunately they also recieve, (decrypt?,) and make available the channel mapping info the same way the electronics in the STB do. This is the info that the S3 is looking to have, and since it's not there can't use it's guide data to determine what's on those channels at any particular time.



> The ONLY reason they should be providing cablecards is if you subscribe to a encrypted digital package, which needs decrypted, which is what the cablecards are for...


As I understand it, that's *NOT* the only reason according to how the system was engineered. The other reason to have a CableCARD is to get the network's Channel Map, which is (as far as I know) not possible without a CableCARD.

People have theorized that the S3 could be programmed to look for an alternate source for this info (the PSIP stream) if provided. I don't know how complicated that is.

-Kyle


----------



## kjmcdonald

JohnBrowning said:


> Wow! Talk about over-reaction! The minimal issues I have with both Series3 and FiOS are not near sufficient to make me drop or diss either one.


Exactly, I'm impressed with Verizon's ability to so closely meet the standard without the aid of the certification process. I would have expected more problems.

Or maybe there are more deviations, and I should be impressed with TiVo's ability to handle and accept them gracefully, and in many cases invisibly?)

Those two are virtually indistinguishable.

-Kyle


----------



## FlippedBit

SCSIRAID said:


> My number 1 issue is the audio dropout and pixelation problem supposedly caused by mpeg decoding issues. Hopefully its fixed in 8.1. However.... I dont have 8.1 yet... Ive forced connections several times but to no avail....


SCSIRAID, do you have a saved recording with a pixelation and audio dropout in it? I am going to have to remember to note the time on a show with an audio droupout/pixilation event and save it before I get the upgrade.


----------



## Bighouse

Geez, I can't believe I read through ALL 9 pages of this thread looking for info on what users are finding are enabled on the new software update and most of it seemed to be a hijacked thread about FIOS!

C'mon people...take it to another thread maybe? And, instead, can users who have actually managed to have the 8.1 downloaded please tell me if the Home Media picture viewing has changed significantly to allow for higher res displays of images? I'd also like to hear from other users what they're seeing/finding on the update- and less complaining about what's NOT in it in this thread!

Thanks, hopefully!


----------



## Adam1115

bkdtv said:


> Actually, you will need CableCards to get guide data from your cable provider.
> 
> Currently, displays are unidirectional OpenCable, which means they can't pull guide information from the cable provider regardless. The unidirectional CableCard device -- be it Tivo or the TV -- has to get guide data from somewhere else. Tivo provides its own guide information, while most TVs support the Gemstar TVGoS service broadcast over the airwaves (not available in all areas).
> 
> That will all change with OpenCable 2.0, when bidirectional CableCard devices will be able to pull guide information directly from the cable provider. QAM alone won't be able to do that.


WHAT?? 

My understanding of QAM is that Electronic Program Guide information is stored in the PSIP data for each channel. TiVo doesn't use the PSIP EPG because they use their own guide. So while a TV would work fine, using the PSIP Guide, TiVo won't because it doesn't support guide information on these channels.



kjmcdonald said:


> As I understand it, that's *NOT* the only reason according to how the system was engineered. The other reason to have a CableCARD is to get the network's Channel Map, which is (as far as I know) not possible without a CableCARD.


If 'the system' you are referring to is the Series3, then yes, you're correct. The Series3 completely ignores the PSIP EPG that the cable company is sending in favor of it's better guide. Fine. But that isn't the cable companies fault.. if TiVo ignores the guide the cable company sends with the channel, then TiVo should engineer a workaround (such as a manual method to remap the guide data to these channels.)

Using a cablecard as a workaround isn't appropriate...

Look, I want this to work as much as anyone else. But having to get a cablecard on analog cable just to get guide data on channels that are in the clear is ridiculous!


----------



## Maeglin

FlippedBit said:


> SCSIRAID, do you have a saved recording with a pixelation and audio dropout in it? I am going to have to remember to note the time on a show with an audio droupout/pixilation event and save it before I get the upgrade.


I have a couple of them, and that's one thing I plan to test. Apparently I'm getting the update next week, though, as a couple forced connections have turned up nothing.


----------



## bkdtv

Adam1115 said:


> My understanding of QAM is that Electronic Program Guide information is stored in the PSIP data for each channel.


Nope. Some cable providers provide limited PSIP data, but most do not. Even for those that do, that is not the guide information you see in your guide with a cable box. In my market, neither Comcast nor FiOS transmits PSIP data correctly (if at all), so we don't get channel mapping, let alone labels or program information.

On the overwhelming majority of cable systems, program information is only available by query, and that isn't possible with unidirectional cable.



> So while a TV would work fine, using the PSIP Guide, TiVo won't because it doesn't support guide information on these channels.


The guide provided by Gemstar's TVGuideOnScreen is a separate broadcast system (typically using PBS), it does not use PSIP data, as far as I know.


----------



## cbm

Has anyone determined if forcing calls repeatedly ups your odds of getting the 8.1 update or not?


----------



## TiVoPony

cbm said:


> Has anyone determined if forcing calls repeatedly ups your odds of getting the 8.1 update or not?


Just the opposite in fact. 

Don't make me put you on my list! 

Pony


----------



## kjmcdonald

Adam1115 said:


> If 'the system' you are referring to is the Series3, then yes, you're correct. The Series3 completely ignores the PSIP EPG that the cable company is sending in favor of it's better guide. Fine. But that isn't the cable companies fault.. if TiVo ignores the guide the cable company sends with the channel, then TiVo should engineer a workaround (such as a manual method to remap the guide data to these channels.)


Channel Map != Guide Data.

They're not the same thing. One is a list of the digital channels the MSO is sending out (86-5 for example) and how they *map* to the Channel numbers the MSO provides in it's channel listing (813 FOX-HD for example.)

The other is data like "on 813 a 8pm on Sunday, you'll find the Simpsons."

There is also 'guide' data on the cable data stream, but that is not the Channel Map, and it also (to the best of my knowledge) uses the '813' number not the '85-6' number.

The Cable Companies use this indirection to allow them to move the real video data from 85-6 to 101-4 or anywhere else they want at any time they want, as long as they update the 'Channel Map' all the CableCARD devices will be able to find channel 813.

The Tivo has it's own Guide data, but doesn't have it's own ChannelMap info.
I suppose Channel Maps could be formed by Tivo for the MSO's localities, but even ignoring the initial work that would take, keeping them up to date would be nearly impossible because the MSO's are free to change them at any time without warning.

PSIP info is similiar to the Channel Map I beleive. I think if it's populated correctly, then it could be a replacement for it. But I think we have reports that it's not always transmitted correctly by the MSO's.

So no the 'system' I was talking about was the 'Cable Network <-> Cable Card' system.

I hope i"m wrong. I hope the Channel Map is actually available without a cable card, but if it is, I don't know why things aren't working better already.



> Using a cablecard as a workaround isn't appropriate...
> 
> Look, I want this to work as much as anyone else. But having to get a cablecard on analog cable just to get guide data on channels that are in the clear is ridiculous!


I agree. I wish it worked otherwise. Some are asking for Tivo to let you manually tell the tivo that 86-5 is 813 FOX-HD, so that it can then use the guide data it has for 813 in it's operations. It may be that this is the only way to make it work without CableCARDs.

Personally if the PSIP data has the right info, (and if the Tivo QAM Tuner HW makes it available,) I'd prefer that the TiVo try to fallback on that and not require manual intervention. If that were known to work, then we could all lean on our Cable Companies to provide/correct the PSIP info that it appears from other posts the FCC requires the MSO's to transmit.

Having the manual fallback isn't the worst thing in the world though.

-Kyle


----------



## TiVoPony

Bighouse said:


> ...can users who have actually managed to have the 8.1 downloaded please tell me if the Home Media picture viewing has changed significantly to allow for higher res displays of images?


No, there are no changes to the photo app in this release. Actually, that's not a box thing at all, but rather a TiVo Desktop thing. 

Pony


----------



## mattn2

Stevesreed said:


> That's really too bad. I'd rather have clear QAM mapping than any of the "features" added to this release.
> 
> I don't care about MRV, and external Drive. I just want basic functionality. QAM mapping without a cable card is a basic feature, Tivo should get those right before adding all the bells and whistles...


I second this!! Basic functionality is what I want!

# Matt


----------



## Animgif

TiVoPony said:


> Just the opposite in fact.
> 
> Don't make me put you on my list!
> 
> Pony


Can I make you put me on the other list


----------



## SCSIRAID

FlippedBit said:


> SCSIRAID, do you have a saved recording with a pixelation and audio dropout in it? I am going to have to remember to note the time on a show with an audio droupout/pixilation event and save it before I get the upgrade.


Yes... Quite a few...


----------



## dig_duggler

TiVoPony said:


> Just the opposite in fact.
> 
> Don't make me put you on my list!
> 
> Pony


What's the high end of this release? Two weeks ish? Three weeks ish?

Just a rough estimate?


----------



## SCSIRAID

hookbill said:


> No priority list per Pony.
> 
> You'd think they would want to get it to me just because, well, I'm me!
> 
> Seriously SCISRAID you've been around a bit. You know how these things go. Think about if it was like a Series 2 update it may take months. In a sense we're lucky.


Yes... I know how these things go... But that doesnt mean I have to like it.


----------



## hookbill

dig_duggler said:


> What's the high end of this release? Two weeks ish? Three weeks ish?
> 
> Just a rough estimate?


Pony already stated that at the beginning of this thread. Most of us should be getting it next week.


----------



## ADG

It really isn't that big of a deal guys. Mine was installed yesterday (I had to force the reboot) and I'm still using the TiVo the same way as before


----------



## mattn2

George Cifranci said:


> TiVo would also have to drop the price of the Series 3 substantially as well. I can't imagine the people who don't want to pay for cable would be willing to shell out $650 plus a subscription fee for a Series 3.


You have just met one ... I beg to differ with this. 
Why should I pay my cable co:
$56.94 (Lowest Digital Package)
$5.00 (HD package, only has ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX here) 
$1.91 (2nd CableCard Fee - could be more according to posts)
- $12.79 (my current package that include the QAM in the clear)

= $51.06 + tax per month to only get the big 4 in HiDef w/ CC????
== > $600 per year!!!!! for nothing.

Without the S3, I can't record the HD shows I watch.

(OTA is only available for FOX and CW here, for at least 18 months until the new Denver LCG Tower goes operational).

Come on TiVo, FIX THIS ASAP!

# Matt


----------



## hookbill

ADG said:


> It really isn't that big of a deal guys. Mine was installed yesterday (I had to force the reboot) and I'm still using the TiVo the same way as before


Yeah, I agree even though I haven't got it yet. I don't see myself using it much differently.

However there have been a couple of times when I've accidentally deleted something and that delete folder would have come in handy.


----------



## bmgoodman

TiVoPony said:


> No, there are no changes to the photo app in this release. Actually, that's not a box thing at all, but rather a TiVo Desktop thing.
> 
> Pony


A Tivo Desktop thing? Boy, am I glad that Tivo released 2.4 late last year as promised!  Surely this is the version that has everything we ever dared to hope for; it might even protect us from meteors.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

hookbill said:


> Yeah, I agree even though I haven't got it yet. I don't see myself using it much differently.


That's just because it's not really different.

From what TiVo has said about it, it's a very minimal release. Now granted, they haven't, and apparently won't, tell their customers everything about the release. I think that's ridiculous and short-sighted. But I also think it's par for the course for this company's business decisions. It's amazing they're in business at all.

So who really knows. Just enjoy it while it lasts.


----------



## dig_duggler

hookbill said:


> Pony already stated that at the beginning of this thread. Most of us should be getting it next week.


Pony said "So if you don't have it this week...you'll likely have it soon thereafter. Given the relative size of the Series3 population, it won't take us weeks and weeks to get it out to everyone."

soon thereafter is a vague term. and weeks and weeks in Tivo speak could mean a lot of things. Looking for something more well defined (without holding them to it - just an estimate).

And the big switch _might_ get thrown next week, but surely they have a better idea of that by now.


----------



## dig_duggler

ADG said:


> It really isn't that big of a deal guys. Mine was installed yesterday (I had to force the reboot) and I'm still using the TiVo the same way as before


It's a big deal when you have channels with shows you want to watch that have no audio and this release addresses that issue.


----------



## TexasAg

dig_duggler said:


> Pony said "So if you don't have it this week...you'll likely have it soon thereafter. Given the relative size of the Series3 population, it won't take us weeks and weeks to get it out to everyone."
> 
> soon thereafter is a vague term. and weeks and weeks in Tivo speak could mean a lot of things. Looking for something more well defined (without holding them to it - just an estimate).


But he also said "there's always next week's planned throw of the 'big switch'." That tells me they're releasing it to all of the other boxes next week.


----------



## Espo

TiVoPony - any chance this release addresses the Comcast CableCARD problems? Like it's been reported many times in the Comcast section, using Scientific Atlanta cards, one or both cards will loose their auth. for no reason. A reboot then fixes this. However, this continues to happen every few days. This tells us the S3 software has a problem with reading these particular cards, don't you think?


----------



## George Cifranci

dig_duggler said:


> It's a big deal when you have channels with shows you want to watch that have no audio and this release addresses that issue.


And for those (like me) that had the dreaded infinite reboot loop issue which this does appear to fix.


----------



## randywalters

kucharsk said:


> Yes, it will download it over the phone; you'll notice your TiVo's phone call taking about twentry minutes as opposed to the usual two or three.


Thanks ! I dialed in a few times this morning but the call did last only a few minutes and did nothing, but right before i left for work i dialed in one more time and this time it said it was downloading data (or sumthin like that) and it was still downloading 10 minutes later when i walked out the door.

Hopefully that means i got the new update waiting for me when i get home, and if so i really hope it fixes the irritating audio dropout > pixelation problem i'm getting 10 times per hour


----------



## tomryan

alex_kac said:


> TivoPony did say "officially" support.


true.. and fios users do get guide data on their tivo, so where does partial support end and official support start?

I completely understand TIVO's position on this, but it is a murky area.

I say hats off to tivo for supporting it as much as they do.


----------



## kido

mattn2 said:


> You have just met one ... I beg to differ with this.
> Why should I pay my cable co:
> $56.94 (Lowest Digital Package)
> $5.00 (HD package, only has ABC,CBS,NBC,FOX here)
> $1.91 (2nd CableCard Fee - could be more according to posts)
> - $12.79 (my current package that include the QAM in the clear)
> 
> = $51.06 + tax per month to only get the big 4 in HiDef w/ CC????
> == > $600 per year!!!!! for nothing.
> 
> Without the S3, I can't record the HD shows I watch.
> 
> (OTA is only available for FOX and CW here, for at least 18 months until the new Denver LCG Tower goes operational).
> 
> Come on TiVo, FIX THIS ASAP!
> 
> # Matt


you should double, triple, quadruple check with your cable co whether you have to have a digital package to use cable cards. there is no technical reason why cable cards cannot be used with basic cable. cable cards provide channel mapping and decryption just like a cable co's STB. if they will provide you a HD STB with the basic cable package for only local HD channels, then cable cards would work as well. if they do not allow you to use cable cards, then that is a policy decision on the cable co's part.

i think people should remember that tivo is not the cable co's best friend. they would rather you rent their equipment to go along with their service so you can buy PPV, VOD, etc. this means you may need to be stern with them to get what you want. maybe threaten to leave them for satellite or fios. if they will not give you cable cards with basic cable ask that a technical supervisor explain why not. in most cases, it seems it is only a policy decision to force people up to a digital tier of service they do not need.


----------



## ewilts

TiVoPony said:


> No, there are no changes to the photo app in this release. Actually, that's not a box thing at all, but rather a TiVo Desktop thing.


Does this mean that Galleon should be able to be updated to display HD photos?

What's the ETA (very roughly) for a TiVo Desktop update to allow it?

Thanks again,
.../Ed


----------



## ADG

hoobkill - right you are - the "Recently Deleted" folder can be handy

dig_duggler - ditto - for those with problems this release addresses it can be a big deal (and that includes me, by the way). Among the problems I've been having is the audio dropout issue. And before you ask - so far so good


----------



## ADG

Just noticed - when the Recently Deleted folder was created it added everything that was deleted for the past couple of weeks (I guess everything that space allowed).


----------



## Fofer

ADG said:


> Just noticed - when the Recently Deleted folder was created it added everything that was deleted for the past couple of weeks (I guess everything that space allowed).


Sweet! I was wondering how that'd be handled.

Like Suggestions, I suppose the "Recently Deleted" folder could be used as a gauge to see how much free space is remanning... the more items in there, the safer you are from running out of room and shows getting deleted.

So, what gets removed first... suggestions? or recent deletions?


----------



## moyekj

ADG said:


> Just noticed - when the Recently Deleted folder was created it added everything that was deleted for the past couple of weeks (I guess everything that space allowed).


 Quick question since I never had a Tivo with this feature (and don't have the 8.1 update yet) - if you have folders turned off does the Recently Deleted folder still show up? I hate the worthless HD folder so have folders turned off not to see it.


----------



## Maeglin

ewilts said:


> Does this mean that Galleon should be able to be updated to display HD photos?


Galleon uses the HME protocol, which is currently limited to 640x480. HMO/Calypso is the protocol that the built-in music and photo apps use, and it's completely different.

I can personally see it being a combination of something in TiVo Desktop and something in the box. The HMO protocol allows for the client dictating to the server what image size it wants, but the server could be set in its ways about a maximum size to send. The server may be scaling it down to a maximum anticipated size (???x480) if the client doesn't specify to make transfer over the network quicker... if the original image is large enough, that can take a bit of time compared to sending a scaled down version.


----------



## Bierboy

moyekj said:


> Quick question since I never had a Tivo with this feature (and don't have the 8.1 update yet) - if you have folders turned off does the Recently Deleted folder still show up?...


Yes.


----------



## TiVoPony

Fofer said:


> Sweet! I was wondering how that'd be handled.
> 
> Like Suggestions, I suppose the "Recently Deleted" folder could be used as a gauge to see how much free space is remanning... the more items in there, the safer you are from running out of room and shows getting deleted.
> 
> So, what gets removed first... suggestions? or recent deletions?


Recent deletions get deleted first. After all, they've been deleted. 

Suggestions go next if the Recently Deleted folder is empty.

Pony


----------



## Fofer

Cool, Pony. Exactly as I'd hoped.

although a real FSI would be even cooler.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Fofer said:


> Cool, Pony. Exactly as I'd hoped.
> 
> although a real FSI would be even cooler.


Not what you want.

The recently deleted folder will empty itself eventually, not just when space is needed.


----------



## kucharsk

ADG said:


> It really isn't that big of a deal guys. Mine was installed yesterday (I had to force the reboot) and I'm still using the TiVo the same way as before


Well I bought an S3 with TiVO wireless adapter in November, but since my home network uses WPA, the wireless adapter's been a paperweight for going on three months now (so it's been a bit frustrating.)

Doesn't change _how_ I use my TiVO, I'd just like to be able to use the hardware I paid for.


----------



## dbenrosen

Espo said:


> TiVoPony - any chance this release addresses the Comcast CableCARD problems? Like it's been reported many times in the Comcast section, using Scientific Atlanta cards, one or both cards will loose their auth. for no reason. A reboot then fixes this. However, this continues to happen every few days. This tells us the S3 software has a problem with reading these particular cards, don't you think?


This is the same problem that I have with Cablevision/SA cards. This release does NOT address that issue. I am hopeful it might fix it by accident. I have not had the problem occur in the past two days, but I have also rebooted twice during that time.

It does fix the reboot loop problem that I was getting when I would reboot to fix the auth issue.


----------



## aaronwt

Espo said:


> TiVoPony - any chance this release addresses the Comcast CableCARD problems? Like it's been reported many times in the Comcast section, using Scientific Atlanta cards, one or both cards will loose their auth. for no reason. A reboot then fixes this. However, this continues to happen every few days. This tells us the S3 software has a problem with reading these particular cards, don't you think?


If that was true then I would have a problem, but I don't. I have three Series 3 boxes, with six SA cable cards from Comcast and I don't have any problems.


----------



## JoN8282

i have 2 s3's with 4 SA cablecards from cablevision - i have this problem on one card on one box - i was hoping this release would fix this, i dont feel like getting a new card from the cable co.


----------



## cwoody222

No update for me yet. 

I also just discovered that my reboot I experienced on Monday was NOT from a power-failure which was guess. Weird. Hope it's not a sign of problems down the road. Up to now my TiVo has worked perfectly!


----------



## ADG

dbenrosen said:


> This is the same problem that I have with Cablevision/SA cards. This release does NOT address that issue. I am hopeful it might fix it by accident. I have not had the problem occur in the past two days, but I have also rebooted twice during that time.
> 
> It does fix the reboot loop problem that I was getting when I would reboot to fix the auth issue.


FYI, I believe you'll find that scrolling up or down the channels until you find one that tunes in and then switching back to the channel that first had the problem will also work.


----------



## ewilts

Maeglin said:


> Galleon uses the HME protocol, which is currently limited to 640x480. HMO/Calypso is the protocol that the built-in music and photo apps use, and it's completely different.


Thanks for the great explanation. So now we need a client app that does HMO/Calypso to display HD photos.

Pony, any guesses when we might see any updated TiVo Desktop?

Are there any planned changes to the HME protocol to allow for higher resolutions?

.../Ed


----------



## Maeglin

ewilts said:


> Thanks for the great explanation. So now we need a client app that does HMO/Calypso to display HD photos.


...which is built into the TiVo box, but unsure whether it needs updating for HD photo viewing. That's apparently not the case, according to Pony, and the fact that the photo viewer in the box is already running at HD resolutions (I'm using 1080i Hybrid, so can't tell which) seems to confirm that and implies it would be the server (TiVo Desktop) that needs updating.

The photo viewer is also what gets used when you view the Nikon photo gallery, and that doesn't seem like the photos there are at HD resolutions, but that could be the server scaling it to 480 lines as well.



> Are there any planned changes to the HME protocol to allow for higher resolutions?


I'd be interested in that one, too


----------



## TiVoPony

ewilts said:


> Are there any planned changes to the HME protocol to allow for higher resolutions?
> 
> .../Ed


None needed. HME was designed to support HD from the start. Not everything is publically documented. 

We've shown an HD HME Photos app at the last couple of trade shows we've done. How that will be delivered...that involves desktop. We're working on it.

Pony


----------



## Ivomir

hookbill said:


> Yeah, I agree even though I haven't got it yet. I don't see myself using it much differently.
> 
> However there have been a couple of times when I've accidentally deleted something and that delete folder would have come in handy.


When I got the update I got the "Recently deleted" folder, already full with 70 deleted shows. So the deleted shows are stored even before 8.1, but with 8.1 you can "undelete" them. So if you very recently deleted something accidently you should still be able to restore it when you get 8.1 in a few days.

Ivo


----------



## ewilts

TiVoPony said:


> None needed. HME was designed to support HD from the start. Not everything is publically documented.


I don't need the info, but the Galleon developers do. How do we (can we?) get the info to them? Will the information be made public? It sure would be sweet to display my home photos in a higher resolution. *Really* sweet.

Thanks,
.../Ed


----------



## Fofer

TiVoPony said:


> We've shown an HD HME Photos app at the last couple of trade shows we've done. How that will be delivered...that involves desktop. We're working on it.


Please please please don't forget us enthusiastic Mac peeps!


----------



## aaronwt

So how do I find TiVo Cast? I don't see it listed. I don't see anything new except deleted folders and the Live recording nag.


----------



## Fofer

aaronwt said:


> So how do I find TiVo Cast? I don't see it listed. I don't see anything new except deleted folders and the Live recording nag.


Earlier in the thread TiVoPony said that TiVoCast wouldn't actually show up just yet... I presume that's "big switch #2."


----------



## CharlesH

Fofer said:


> Earlier in the thread TiVoPony said that TiVoCast wouldn't actually show up just yet... I presume that's "big switch #2."


I suspect that the update includes all required software support needed on the TiVo, but Series3 support for TivoCast at the TiVo servers has not been turned on yet.


----------



## Adam1115

Ivomir said:


> When I got the update I got the "Recently deleted" folder, already full with 70 deleted shows. So the deleted shows are stored even before 8.1, but with 8.1 you can "undelete" them. So if you very recently deleted something accidently you should still be able to restore it when you get 8.1 in a few days.
> 
> Ivo


Unless you have suggestions turned on...


----------



## ADG

It's not that the programs are "stored", it's simply that when you "delete" a file from a hard disk you don't actually delete the file, only the "pointer" in the master file table. The software that is installed along with 8.1 recovers the data in the mft and allows the names of the files (programs) to be shown.


----------



## Ivomir

Adam1115 said:


> Unless you have suggestions turned on...


Yikes! True, I don't...

Ivo


----------



## Scopeman

Toeside said:


> This desicribes us pretty well. For years we've had DirecTV, and our Season Pass List has been 95% OTA. We decided that 5% is not worth $70/month. I sold our HR10-250 and bought a Series3.


Exactly the same here. I pay a FRACTION of my old DTV bill now, and have 95% or more of what I had before. All my digital locals are OTA or clear QAM. No CableCards, no satellite, no problems.


----------



## dnorth12

Is the daylight savings time change in March covered in this update or is it a non-issue?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

dnorth12 said:


> Is the daylight savings time change in March covered in this update or is it a non-issue?


Should be a non-issue. Maybe for one day---the TiVo syncs with the server daily, so as long as they have that clock right, we're good.

Maybe orce a call that morning.


----------



## GoHokies!

ThreeSoFar said:


> Should be a non-issue. Maybe for one day---the TiVo syncs with the server daily, so as long as they have that clock right, we're good.
> 
> Maybe orce a call that morning.


There is a thread over in the Coffee House that talks about this WRT to the S1's. The guide data and recording schedules are all based off of GMT, so it will be a complete non-issue from the standpoint of your Tivo getting the right recordings. The only issue that may manifest itself is that the times that are displayed to you may be an hour off. I can't remember if Stephen said if the 8.1 updates for the S2 and S3 addressed the rule changes or not.


----------



## dbenrosen

ADG said:


> FYI, I believe you'll find that scrolling up or down the channels until you find one that tunes in and then switching back to the channel that first had the problem will also work.


In my case I lose ALL of the digital channels. In many instances the tuner is on one of the channels I receive when the CableCARD fails, such as CBS HD or FOX HD. Any amount of scrolling will not reauthorize the card. I must either reboot or reseat the card (take it out and reinstall it) to get the auth back. I'd be very happy if it were just one channel, or even a handful of channels. But I lose ALL digital channels.


----------



## CharlesH

ThreeSoFar said:


> Should be a non-issue. Maybe for one day---the TiVo syncs with the server daily, so as long as they have that clock right, we're good.


It syncs with a Network Time Protocol (NTP) server somewhere on the Internet for the time, but that is GMT. Like all Unix-based systems, TiVo boxes deal internally with GMT (actually, seconds since a zero time, which I believe is midnight GMT, Jan 1, 1970), and only deal with things like time zones and Daylight Savings Time when presenting date/times to the user. The only thing that would get messed up is manually scheduled (by channel+time) recordings. They just have to update the tables which do the mapping. The DST rules have changed before, so tweaking the rules is built into the design.


----------



## BrianCT

Anyone else having problems with thier Comcast digital channels? Everything was working fine and now they are all out? Comcast sent a hit to my cable cards, but it didnt work. I called back but the nighttime CSR's are clueless....one did say they were changing the channel lineup, but no reason why I lost all the digital channels.


----------



## Bighouse

TiVoPony said:


> None needed. HME was designed to support HD from the start. Not everything is publically documented.
> 
> We've shown an HD HME Photos app at the last couple of trade shows we've done. How that will be delivered...that involves desktop. We're working on it.
> 
> Pony


Ok. I apologize for EVERY dumb thing I've ever said or publicly participated in that spoke of my disappointment in anything TiVo related...now, tell me Pony, what can you share with me that is "PRIVATELY documented"? I REALLY want to display my Nikon D80 pics on HD on my Fujitsu Plasma.

Feel free to PM me- you or anyone who knows what the unspoken hint was all about....


----------



## moyekj

dbenrosen said:


> In my case I lose ALL of the digital channels. In many instances the tuner is on one of the channels I receive when the CableCARD fails, such as CBS HD or FOX HD. Any amount of scrolling will not reauthorize the card. I must either reboot or reseat the card (take it out and reinstall it) to get the auth back. I'd be very happy if it were just one channel, or even a handful of channels. But I lose ALL digital channels.


 I've been experiencing this several times lately too. In diagnostics or system information menus one of the cable cards shows as non-functional (I forget the exact text) and I can't tune any encrypted channel with the associated tuner. Only a reboot clears it up. Hoping 8.1 will fix this problem too as it seems to necessitate a reboot every few days lately.


----------



## greg_burns

Does 8.1 add the Keep At Most (KAM) option of 25 episodes?


----------



## GoHokies!

Bighouse said:


> Ok. I apologize for EVERY dumb thing I've ever said or publicly participated in that spoke of my disappointment in anything TiVo related...now, tell me Pony, what can you share with me that is "PRIVATELY documented"? I REALLY want to display my Nikon D80 pics on HD on my Fujitsu Plasma.
> 
> Feel free to PM me- you or anyone who knows what the unspoken hint was all about....


It means they are working on it.

And if it isn't publicly documented, there isn't anything else to share with you, or any of us.

Nothing to get all bent out of shape over.


----------



## aaronwt

greg_burns said:


> Does 8.1 add the Keep At Most (KAM) option of 25 episodes?


Yes. I do see that as an option now. I had no idea until I checked it. Although I doubt I will ever use it. Most of my SPs are set for 5 episodes and a couple for all.


----------



## jbowden

I discovered a new issue with 8.1 that needs to be validated by another user. I would say this one could be very annoying. Program scrolling appears to be faster but if you hold the direction button to the point where it changes to the next page of channels the actual channel information is delayed/blank for a couple of seconds before it is displayed. You can even scrool in a blank screen then stop and wait for the display of channel information. This one will take user training to get use to.


----------



## aaronwt

I just tried it and it started doing what you said after I got a week a ahead in the schedule. Prior to that it was fine. This won't affect me anyway since I always use the page down, not scroll down. Scrolling down is too slow for me. Although I just checked and page down slows down also after I get a week ahead of the schedule also. This is rreally no big deal to me. I just hope they activate MRV soon.


----------



## Mike Farrington

I hoped they fixed the VERY annoying 8.1 bug on the S2 where if you go into a program's details while on anything but the first page of a subfolder, you would be thrown back to the first page upon exit. I imagine they must have. I still can't believe that build made it out the door for the S2 like that. TiVo is all about the glean UI, and they really goofed it up for a lot of people.


----------



## hookbill

jbowden said:


> I discovered a new issue with 8.1 that needs to be validated by another user. I would say this one could be very annoying. Program scrolling appears to be faster but if you hold the direction button to the point where it changes to the next page of channels the actual channel information is delayed/blank for a couple of seconds before it is displayed. You can even scrool in a blank screen then stop and wait for the display of channel information. This one will take user training to get use to.


It takes a couple of seconds for it to get more guide data. I'm sure TiVo will jump right on this "major" issue.


----------



## jbowden

hookbill said:


> It takes a couple of seconds for it to get more guide data. I'm sure TiVo will jump right on this "major" issue.


Hookbill - Thanks for the feedback. Did you try it or are you just commenting on the design? This is different in 8.1 and maybe some folks would like to hear what others are experiencing. I never indicated this is a major issue...only that it could be annoying and require user training to get use to.! :up:


----------



## FlippedBit

SCSIRAID said:


> Yes... Quite a few...


Good. I tried an HD movie last night and it had the issue about every 7 minutes. I only recall ever having one this bad once before so I got lucky with my bad luck  Now all I need is 8.1 and I can see if the pixilation/audio dropout issue is fixed. I've always assumed that if it is a decoding issue like TiVo told you, then a fix would correct the issue on pre fix recordings.


----------



## TexasAg

FlippedBit said:


> Good. I tried an HD movie last night and it had the issue about every 7 minutes. I only recall ever having one this bad once before so I got lucky with my bad luck  Now all I need is 8.1 and I can see if the pixilation/audio dropout issue is fixed. I've always assumed that if it is a decoding issue like TiVo told you, then a fix would correct the issue on pre fix recordings.


Hopefully you're right. I get the occassional drop-out as well (and it always seems to happen at the crucial moment in a show!).


----------



## hookbill

jbowden said:


> Hookbill - Thanks for the feedback. Did you try it or are you just commenting on the design? This is different in 8.1 and maybe some folks would like to hear what others are experiencing. I never indicated this is a major issue...only that it could be annoying and require user training to get use to.! :up:


I thought you were presenting it as a major issue. Sorry if I didn't get the text of your response correctly.

I personally wouldn't have brought it up but that's just me. No problem to each his own.


----------



## dig_duggler

hookbill said:


> It takes a couple of seconds for it to get more guide data. I'm sure TiVo will jump right on this "major" issue.


Well, their fixes broke something that wasn't broken before. I would call that less than encouraging and also annoying.


----------



## hookbill

TexasAg said:


> Hopefully you're right. I get the occassional drop-out as well (and it always seems to happen at the crucial moment in a show!).


I wish Pony would come in here and speak to as to whether this is an issue or not and if so if it was addressed. I will say since he or Jerry hasn't said anything I wouldn't get your hopes to high on this one. Still, if it is hope it gets fixed for you.


----------



## glennkawesch

Cool, thanks for the info.

Glenn Kawesch


----------



## kucharsk

Anyone get the update today or are those who will get the update updated by now (after the first scheduled call)? Just curious if I'm wasting time "trying" until next week.


----------



## BigFrank

Well, I've had 8.1 for a couple days now. 

The Audio-glitch / pixelation still happens occasionally, though its not clear whether its frequency is less than before.


----------



## dig_duggler

BigFrank said:


> Well, I've had 8.1 for a couple days now.
> 
> The Audio-glitch / pixelation still happens occasionally, though its not clear whether its frequency is less than before.


I would say if you can't tell it's probably not fixed. Wishful thinking can do powerful things to observations.


----------



## Rucker

GoHokies! said:


> And if it isn't publicly documented, there isn't anything else to share with you, or any of us.


Actually, it means there IS something to share, but Tivo has chosen not to. Possibly it hasn't been tested well. Or maybe they just don't want to make it available before their own desktop uses it.


----------



## Fofer

dig_duggler said:


> I would say if you can't tell it's probably not fixed.


I would say if he's seen it happen more than once or twice, it's probably not fixed.



dig_duggler said:


> Wishful thinking can do powerful things to observations.


...as can negative thinking!


----------



## TallyLaddie

jbowden said:


> Hookbill - Thanks for the feedback. Did you try it or are you just commenting on the design? This is different in 8.1 and maybe some folks would like to hear what others are experiencing. I never indicated this is a major issue...only that it could be annoying and require user training to get use to.! :up:


Actually, I can get my series 3 to do this. I have yet to experience 8.1 so it is not something that was introduced with 8.1.

-Ray
still waiting for 8.1 to appear on my TiVo


----------



## FlippedBit

BigFrank said:


> Well, I've had 8.1 for a couple days now.
> 
> The Audio-glitch / pixelation still happens occasionally, though its not clear whether its frequency is less than before.


Very disappointing. I wish TiVo would comment here on what they know about this issue. As far as I know, it is a problem unique to the S3 amongst HD DVRs. I haven't heard of the Comcast HD DVR having this problem. I know I never had this problem with my S2 which, since the problem is not confined to HD channels, I would have expect the S2 to demonstrate the issue if it was a cable/signal issue. SCSIRAID did get an admission from TiVo that they found issues with how they handled certain encoding idiosyncracies. Do they still believe that is the case? If it is a signal noise issue, then why does it only bother the S3? I had said, months ago now, that I would wait until the first major release before I really start pushing this issue with TiVo. I will still wait until I get 8.1 but then I'm going to try very hard to get some action on this.


----------



## aaronwt

I've never had this problem with my three S3 boxes. So why do some people have this problem and some don't?


----------



## Toeside

The only channel I have pixelation/glitch issues is on FOX, OTA. But this happens on all STB, including the DirecTV HR20 that gets the channel via the MPEG4 feed from the Satellite. 

I still have 8.0.1, BTW.


----------



## Ivomir

BigFrank said:


> Well, I've had 8.1 for a couple days now.
> 
> The Audio-glitch / pixelation still happens occasionally, though its not clear whether its frequency is less than before.


I noticed "pixelation" on Lost HD yesterday. The episode last week had the same problem. The Knights of Prosperity that aired earlier on the same channel had pixelation too. I've seen it also on other HD channels. If you pause the playback it looks like some of the mpeg blocks (ranging from a few to half the screen) have some random noise in them (sorry for the shaky picture):








The widescreen commercials during Lost had pixelation, but the fullscreen ones (which I think are in SD) had none.

If that's what you are experiencing, then no, it is not fixed.

I don't think it is a signal strength issue, because the news right after Lost were crystal-clear. Probably the there are errors in the stream or the Tivo has trouble decompressing it.

That said, I will try screwing a terminator resistor on the unused antenna input to see if this makes a difference.


----------



## FlippedBit

aaronwt said:


> I've never had this problem with my three S3 boxes. So why do some people have this problem and some don't?


It seems to me there are two possibilities.

1) Signal noise

2) Problems with the S3 handling encoding idiosyncracies.

TiVo admitted that the S3 has problems handling encoding idiosyncracies. If this is true, then I would expect that all S3's in a single service area would have this problem. I'm assuming that there is a single encoding technology employed in a single service area. I don't have any data on this though.

If it is a noise issue then why isn't it demonstrated on other DVR models or TV's with cable cards? It must either be because it is not a noise issue, or that the S3 is doing a bad job of handling noise, or that other devices are having the problem. So far though, the few posts here where a user viewed the same on an S3 and without the S3, they reported that only the S3 demonstrated the problem.

If other TV's or DVR's can handle encoding idiosyncracies or noise then, for $800, so should the S3.

If there is a flaw in my logic or if my list of causes is incomplete, please chime in so I can refine my understanding.


----------



## hookbill

FlippedBit said:


> It seems to me there are two possibilities.
> 
> TiVo admitted that the S3 has problems handling encoding idiosyncracies. If this is true, then I would expect that all S3's in a single service area would have this problem. I'm assuming that there is a single encoding technology employed in a single service area. I don't have any data on this though.


Link please.


----------



## FlippedBit

hookbill said:


> Link please.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4644865&highlight=mpeg#post4644865


----------



## hookbill

FlippedBit said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4644865&highlight=mpeg#post4644865


I'm confused. Are we discussing sound issues or pixelation? Because that link specifically talks about mpeg which to me means sound. To bring that into pixelation as well is a bit of a leap.

I'm not saying your wrong, just saying what makes sense to me.


----------



## lombard

hookbill said:


> I'm confused. Are we discussing sound issues or pixelation? Because that link specifically talks about mpeg which to me means sound. To bring that into pixelation as well is a bit of a leap.
> 
> I'm not saying your wrong, just saying what makes sense to me.


mpeg-2 is the AV encoding used on all TiVos. mpeg-4 is supposedly supported for playback on the S3. mpeg usually means video to me, but it is really both.

Disclaimer: Didn't click through and read the linked page...


----------



## donnlewis

Brainiac 5 said:


> Since we're listing our "favorite" problems, does the update do anything for the problem in which the CableCARDs sometimes show an error ("CP Failure" on SA cards) and stop working until the TiVo is rebooted?
> 
> Right now I have to "nursemaid" my S3s by checking them every day to see if they've gone into that state, and I still sometimes miss recordings. I'd be thrilled if that were fixed.


Same exact problem here CP Auth faiure with SA cards (not specific to either tuner). Happen most often when changing channels. VERY frustrating. Also located in Columbis, MD


----------



## Marduk

do you know when we will be able to get Tranfers on the Series 3 box? 

Not for nothing, but I spent over $850 for this box, and I would like it to talk to my other 2 Tivos. If I had known that many of the things I love about tivo will not be on this box, i would have thoguht twice about buying this.

Also, is there going to be an update for the Tivocasts? I subscribe to Cnet and Heavy on my Tivo 2 boxes, but I noticed they were not on this box( And I noticed I stopped getting heavy and Cnet on my series 2 boxes as well)


----------



## hookbill

OK, then here's what I don't understand. I don't see where mpeg comes in on HD transmission. I know for example that D* decodes it's signals in mpeg 4 but my understanding is they are the only ones who do that.

Again my knowledge of the actual transmission of HD signals is a bit limited but mpeg doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Maeglin

Marduk said:


> do you know when we will be able to get Tranfers on the Series 3 box?


Do a search... there are posts all over the place stating that we'll be getting that (at least in a limited sense, with nothing solid on how limited it'll be) later in the year. If it's anything like the ETA for the "fall 06" update, it'll be spring of next year, but at least it's a timeframe.



> Also, is there going to be an update for the Tivocasts? I subscribe to Cnet and Heavy on my Tivo 2 boxes, but I noticed they were not on this box( And I noticed I stopped getting heavy and Cnet on my series 2 boxes as well)


Check for that in the next couple of weeks. There's a few posts in this thread alone that state that it's being turned on likely next week, after the majority of S3 boxes should actually have the software to support it.


----------



## snathanb

hookbill said:


> OK, then here's what I don't understand. I don't see where mpeg comes in on HD transmission. I know for example that D* decodes it's signals in mpeg 4 but my understanding is they are the only ones who do that.
> 
> Again my knowledge of the actual transmission of HD signals is a bit limited but mpeg doesn't make sense to me.


HD broadcasts (ATSC) are mpeg-2 compressed. 
DVDs are mpeg-2 compressed
Tivo Series 1 and 2 store video using mpeg-2 compression.
Most of Directv and DISH channels use mpeg2 compression.

Directv and DISH are starting to encode HD using mpeg-4 compression, as it uses less bandwidth.


----------



## IzzyB68

Ivomir said:


> I noticed "pixelation" on Lost HD yesterday. The episode last week had the same problem. The Knights of Prosperity that aired earlier on the same channel had pixelation too. I've seen it also on other HD channels. If you pause the playback it looks like some of the mpeg blocks (ranging from a few to half the screen) have some random noise in them (sorry for the shaky picture):
> 
> The widescreen commercials during Lost had pixelation, but the fullscreen ones (which I think are in SD) had none.
> 
> If that's what you are experiencing, then no, it is not fixed.
> 
> I don't think it is a signal strength issue, because the news right after Lost were crystal-clear. Probably the there are errors in the stream or the Tivo has trouble decompressing it.
> 
> That said, I will try screwing a terminator resistor on the unused antenna input to see if this makes a difference.


I do have this issue, but not on a regualr basis and normally at most one a half an hour. But I also had this issue sometimes before I got my S3. So I am not sure all of this is Tivo. I would say I get it more now, but I still had it a little bit before. So could it be a combination of a bad signal and how Tivo vs your cable box interacted with this signal?


----------



## Ivomir

Mpeg is audio/video compression format:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mpeg
Just like Jpeg is a still image compression format.

Mpeg-2 and Mpeg-4 are just variations of the format. If the transmission is in mpeg-2 you need an mpeg-2-capable device to decode it. Same goes for mpeg-4.

I don't know which of the 2 are used by the cable companies, but I think Tivo is said to support both.

As with any standard, there are areas that are subject to interpretation. Maybe the cable companies (or whoever is the original content provider) have different take on those than Tivo. If that's the case I sure hope the mpeg decoder chip is upgradable via software updates to support such discrepancies.

Ivo


----------



## dbenrosen

donnlewis said:


> Same exact problem here CP Auth faiure with SA cards (not specific to either tuner). Happen most often when changing channels. VERY frustrating. Also located in Columbis, MD


No, this is not supposed to be fixed in this release.


----------



## hookbill

snathanb said:


> HD broadcasts (ATSC) are mpeg-2 compressed.
> DVDs are mpeg-2 compressed
> Tivo Series 1 and 2 store video using mpeg-2 compression.
> Most of Directv and DISH channels use mpeg2 compression.
> 
> Directv and DISH are starting to encode HD using mpeg-4 compression, as it uses less bandwidth.


Thank you for the very clear explanation. And FlippedBit I now have an understanding of how this can happen to some and not everyone.


----------



## GoHokies!

Rucker said:


> Actually, it means there IS something to share, but Tivo has chosen not to. Possibly it hasn't been tested well. Or maybe they just don't want to make it available before their own desktop uses it.


That's just a game of semantics - I'm not saying that the info doesn't exist, but if it isn't to be shared for our purposese it may as well not exist.

Doesn't change my point that if it isn't publically documented, TivoPony (or anyone else) aren't going to just go and post about it in a forum or send a PM just becuase someone asked.


----------



## andyf

aaronwt said:


> I just tried it and it started doing what you said after I got a week a ahead in the schedule. Prior to that it was fine. This won't affect me anyway since I always use the page down, not scroll down. Scrolling down is too slow for me. Although I just checked and page down slows down also after I get a week ahead of the schedule also. This is rreally no big deal to me. I just hope they activate MRV soon.


That's because a week of guide data is cached. Once you get past a week it has to retireve the data from the drive which takes longer.


----------



## IzzyB68

andyf said:


> That's because a week of guide data is cached. Once you get past a week it has to retireve the data from the drive which takes longer.


This same things happens on my S2 sometimes. I don't see this as a bug or an issue.


----------



## Marduk

Maeglin said:


> Do a search... there are posts all over the place stating that we'll be getting that (at least in a limited sense, with nothing solid on how limited it'll be) later in the year. If it's anything like the ETA for the "fall 06" update, it'll be spring of next year, but at least it's a timeframe.
> 
> _Spring of 2008? Are you serious??? This seems like a lot for the amount of bling I spent on this box. i am a Tivo fan, but I feel as if I was violated here._
> 
> Check for that in the next couple of weeks. There's a few posts in this thread alone that state that it's being turned on likely next week, after the majority of S3 boxes should actually have the software to support it.


Has anyone else had an issue with the Tivocasts changing from dl once a week to hardly ever? Is trhis due to the casts themselves not renewing content?


----------



## Rucker

GoHokies! said:


> Doesn't change my point that if it isn't publically documented, TivoPony (or anyone else) aren't going to just go and post about it in a forum or send a PM just becuase someone asked.


True. However, if Tivo receives many inquiries, you can hope they'll respond to customer demand unless there's a good reason not to.

We have no idea why it hasn't been publicly documented. Maybe they left it off because it wasn't useful at the time (no HD capable Tivo), and they could quickly revise the documentation to add it. But we have no idea. The only way to possibly make any progress is to complain about it and hope Tivo listens.


----------



## Leo_N

FlippedBit said:


> It seems to me there are two possibilities.
> 
> 1) Signal noise
> 
> 2) Problems with the S3 handling encoding idiosyncracies.
> 
> TiVo admitted that the S3 has problems handling encoding idiosyncracies. If this is true, then I would expect that all S3's in a single service area would have this problem. I'm assuming that there is a single encoding technology employed in a single service area. I don't have any data on this though.
> 
> If it is a noise issue then why isn't it demonstrated on other DVR models or TV's with cable cards? It must either be because it is not a noise issue, or that the S3 is doing a bad job of handling noise, or that other devices are having the problem. So far though, the few posts here where a user viewed the same on an S3 and without the S3, they reported that only the S3 demonstrated the problem.
> 
> If other TV's or DVR's can handle encoding idiosyncracies or noise then, for $800, so should the S3.
> 
> If there is a flaw in my logic or if my list of causes is incomplete, please chime in so I can refine my understanding.


I can tell you in my experience the Moxi DVR I had previously to my S3 the pixelation and audio dropouts happened MUCH more with the Moxi. This was at the same time I had a regular digital receiver hooked up to an S2. The pixelation was bad on that also, although not as bad as on the Moxi, or maybe I just used the Moxi more, or maybe HD channels are just more susceptible to the problem. It could also be Charter has improved their service since I had Moxi. Guess my point here is unless you have the two boxes installed side by side with each other (off the same splitter with same cable length) it is almost impossible to tell if you are having a Tivo problem, cable (in general) problem, single channel problem (from cable), or a single channel problem (satellite signal or hard line to cable company) issue.


----------



## FlippedBit

Leo_N said:


> I can tell you in my experience the Moxi DVR I had previously to my S3 the pixelation and audio dropouts happened MUCH more with the Moxi. This was at the same time I had a regular digital receiver hooked up to an S2. The pixelation was bad on that also, although not as bad as on the Moxi, or maybe I just used the Moxi more, or maybe HD channels are just more susceptible to the problem. It could also be Charter has improved their service since I had Moxi. Guess my point here is unless you have the two boxes installed side by side with each other (off the same splitter with same cable length) it is almost impossible to tell if you are having a Tivo problem, cable (in general) problem, single channel problem (from cable), or a single channel problem (satellite signal or hard line to cable company) issue.


Well that is interesting. I am thinking this problem is multi faceted and that all of the possibilities are happening to some extent. I never had the problem on my S2 in over 5 years. Another person reported seeing pixelation issues on FOX on their S3 and D* which implicates the broadcaster. If you are seeing it on the Moxi, S2, and S3 on various channels, then your issues may be unaddressable by TiVo. Those of us with issues only seen on the S3 can still conclude that our problem is addressable by TiVo.

It would help if TiVo would let us know what they fixed. The comment that TiVo doesn't have release notes because "it is not a computer" is not acceptable. I can't think af a single valid justification for not having release notes. TiVo is just being lazy and not yet operating like a mature company. My MP3 player, Audiotron, print server, and router are no more "computers" than the S3, all have release notes for their firmware updates, and none of them cost $800. It is normal and expected for a device like the S3 to have release notes.


----------



## aringhof

I really appreciate the baby steps TiVo is taking since its inception... I had the DirecTV Series 2 for many years... then I got burned by the lousy DirecTV OS, which was terrible.... then I moved to Tampa, FL and tried Brighthouse's Cable DVRs... terrible, terrible... so I broke down and bought TWO Series 3 and a Series 2 with the hopes I could share my Series 2 material on the Series 3... the TiVO advertisements werent clear that you COULDNT do this.... anyway, we love the features on the Series 3 and I cant wait to get my latest update...


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## SCSIRAID

Leo_N said:


> I can tell you in my experience the Moxi DVR I had previously to my S3 the pixelation and audio dropouts happened MUCH more with the Moxi. This was at the same time I had a regular digital receiver hooked up to an S2. The pixelation was bad on that also, although not as bad as on the Moxi, or maybe I just used the Moxi more, or maybe HD channels are just more susceptible to the problem. It could also be Charter has improved their service since I had Moxi. Guess my point here is unless you have the two boxes installed side by side with each other (off the same splitter with same cable length) it is almost impossible to tell if you are having a Tivo problem, cable (in general) problem, single channel problem (from cable), or a single channel problem (satellite signal or hard line to cable company) issue.


One thing I did while trying to isolate this was to record the same content at the same time on both the Tivo and on the 8300. Only the Tivo indicated the issue. The signal levels to both boxes were the same and coming from same output levels from the whole house amp. 8300 indicated the signal level to be +7dbm with 36db snr. I reduced the signal level to the Tivo but didnt make a difference. Further reduced it... no difference. Had several calls with tivo who told me that it was likely due to the mpeg decoding issues already known about and fixed in 8.1. I only saw the issues on QAM sourced material. Never saw it on OTA or analog. Signature of the hiccup was always the same. Audio stops.... video continues.... time elapses.... (different timeperiod for SD and HD) audio then resumes and small burst of video pixelation aparrently as the streams resynced.

I also added a 'high pass filter' to remove the 0-50Mhz return path sewer to see if it was interfereing with the QAM tuner.... no dice.

Note that I dont attribute ALL pixelation issues to this... There are going to be transmission issues either local or network that can create similar things.


----------



## Fofer

aringhof said:


> I really appreciate the baby steps TiVo is taking since its inception... I had the DirecTV Series 2 for many years... then I got burned by the lousy DirecTV OS, which was terrible....
> 
> <snip>
> 
> anyway, we love the features on the Series 3 and I cant wait to get my latest update...


 

The "OS" on the DirecTV Series 2 is the same "OS" as there is on the Series 3.

Both TiVo.

And other than now handling HD, it really hasn't changed much.


----------



## fergiej

jbowden said:


> I discovered a new issue with 8.1 that needs to be validated by another user. I would say this one could be very annoying. Program scrolling appears to be faster but if you hold the direction button to the point where it changes to the next page of channels the actual channel information is delayed/blank for a couple of seconds before it is displayed. You can even scrool in a blank screen then stop and wait for the display of channel information. This one will take user training to get use to.


Did you know that you can use the channel up and down buttons while in the guide to change by page? It will and always has taken a half second or so to populate the new page, but it still is faster than clicking down one at a time with the direction pad.


----------



## Leo_N

SCSIRAID said:


> One thing I did while trying to isolate this was to record the same content at the same time on both the Tivo and on the 8300. Only the Tivo indicated the issue. The signal levels to both boxes were the same and coming from same output levels from the whole house amp. 8300 indicated the signal level to be +7dbm with 36db snr. I reduced the signal level to the Tivo but didnt make a difference. Further reduced it... no difference. Had several calls with tivo who told me that it was likely due to the mpeg decoding issues already known about and fixed in 8.1. I only saw the issues on QAM sourced material. Never saw it on OTA or analog. Signature of the hiccup was always the same. Audio stops.... time elapses.... (different timeperiod for SD and HD) audio then resumes and small burst of video pixelation aparrently as the streams resynced.
> 
> Note that I dont attribute ALL pixelation issues to this... There are going to be transmission issues either local or network that can create similar things.


That sounds like a pretty exhaustive diagnosis. Probably correct in your case. I think a lot of times this amount of research isn't done though and Tivo just gets the crap for it.

Please note to others with the problem, I am not saying it doesn't happen, just trying to point out as SCSIRAID said it might not always be that. In my case I think i have had about 4 or 5 barely noticeable blips in the last 30 - 40 hours of programming I have watched. Not sure where my problem lies at all, with that little bit it hasn't bothered me.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Fofer said:


> The "OS" on the DirecTV Series 2 is the same "OS" as there is on the Series 3.
> 
> Both TiVo.
> 
> And other than now handling HD, it really hasn't changed much.


I think he means he went from the DirecTiVo to the regular DirecTV DVR.


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## Saxion

To those of you complaining about slow menu redraw times: Try changing your screen type to "Smart Screen" instead of "16x9 Widescreen". All HD/SD content will still be passed over component/HDMI in native resolution...the only difference will be that the TiVo menu system will now be in SD. Doesn't really change its appearance or functionality, and it draws much faster.


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## Fofer

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I think he means he went from the DirecTiVo to the regular DirecTV DVR.


Ah yes, reading it again now, that makes more sense.


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## Fofer

Saxion said:


> To those of you complaining about slow menu redraw times: Try changing your screen type to "Smart Screen" instead of "16x9 Widescreen". All HD/SD content will still be passed over component/HDMI in native resolution...the only difference will be that the TiVo menu system will now be in SD. Doesn't really change its appearance or functionality, and it draws much faster.


Now THAT'S a tip I look forward to trying when I get home! Thanks, Saxion!


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## bareyb

Saxion said:


> To those of you complaining about slow menu redraw times: Try changing your screen type to "Smart Screen" instead of "16x9 Widescreen". All HD/SD content will still be passed over component/HDMI in native resolution...the only difference will be that the TiVo menu system will now be in SD. Doesn't really change its appearance or functionality, and it draws much faster.


Why would this make the Menu System "Standard Def"? I thought native for the Menus was 720? At any rate, I tried this and not sure if it's any faster... Is there any downside to switching from 16:9 to "Smartscreen"?


----------



## jbowden

fergiej said:


> Did you know that you can use the channel up and down buttons while in the guide to change by page? It will and always has taken a half second or so to populate the new page, but it still is faster than clicking down one at a time with the direction pad.


Thanks. I am aware of that...just pointing out a change in the behaver with 8.1. Not a big concern for me, just a change to get use too.


----------



## bmorley

The only downside I found using the "Smartscreen" was that it seemed the aspect button (panel/full/zoom) no longer worked. This is with a Sharp Aquos 32" LCD. This was an issue for me since Sci-Fi broadcasts a number of their shows now in letterboxed WS, so using the zoom feature is nice. I actually prefer the menus in the 4:3 aspect, but I can live with them stretched til they fix that.


----------



## cokyq

I still have not received the 8.1 update. Patiently waiting. I just got my S3 in January, so I may be one on the very end of the list.

Has anyone had this problem, when going to photos, music and more, and choose Nikon HD, I get an error #43-501. Any ideas why?

cokyq


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## davew723

cokyq said:


> Has anyone had this problem, when going to photos, music and more, and choose Nikon HD, I get an error #43-501. Any ideas why?
> cokyq


I have seen the same. No idea why.


----------



## hookbill

cokyq said:


> I still have not received the 8.1 update. Patiently waiting. I just got my S3 in January, so I may be one on the very end of the list.


I doubt very much when you bought your S3 or when you activated your service for it has anything to do with when you will receive the update. The service number theory however is interesting. It was discussed earleir in this thread.


----------



## Fofer

davew723 said:


> I have seen the same. No idea why.


Me too.

I remember hearing that Nikon HD doesn't work for anyone... S2 or S3. I could be wrong about that, though.


----------



## ewilts

davew723 said:


> I have seen the same. No idea why.


I'm too lazy to do a site search but it could be because it's waiting for Tivocast and that's another week or two out.

.../Ed


----------



## Adam1115

Marduk said:


> do you know when we will be able to get Tranfers on the Series 3 box?
> 
> Not for nothing, but I spent over $850 for this box, and I would like it to talk to my other 2 Tivos. If I had known that many of the things I love about tivo will not be on this box, i would have thoguht twice about buying this.
> 
> Also, is there going to be an update for the Tivocasts? I subscribe to Cnet and Heavy on my Tivo 2 boxes, but I noticed they were not on this box( And I noticed I stopped getting heavy and Cnet on my series 2 boxes as well)


I hate to break it to you, but it's VERY unlikely that the Series3 will ever be able to transfer HD recordings to your Series2 boxes..


----------



## dswallow

Adam1115 said:


> VERY unlikely


You've allowed a certain amount of optimism to exist that it might happen; you shouldn't do that.


----------



## greg_burns

Marduk said:


> Has anyone else had an issue with the Tivocasts changing from dl once a week to hardly ever? Is trhis due to the casts themselves not renewing content?


If you don't delete them, they will stop downloading. Unlike a SP, it will not remove the oldest to make remove for new ones.


----------



## Fofer

Adam1115 said:


> I hate to break it to you, but it's VERY unlikely that the Series3 will ever be able to transfer HD recordings to your Series2 boxes..


What's the over-under on being able to transfer SD recordings FROM the Series2 boxes to the Series3?


----------



## Fofer

ewilts said:


> I'm too lazy to do a site search but it could be because it's waiting for Tivocast and that's another week or two out.
> 
> .../Ed


Nah, Nikon HD is an HME menu item, it's been on the S3 long before 8.1 and TiVoCast were brought up...


----------



## hookbill

dswallow said:


> You've allowed a certain amount of optimism to exist that it might happen; you shouldn't do that.


   

I'm still hopeful and I will be until the day comes and they either deliver or deny.


----------



## MichaelK

Fofer said:


> What's the over-under on being able to transfer SD recordings FROM the Series2 boxes to the Series3?


June 30th.


----------



## RichB

MichaelK said:


> June 30th.


No year. Very clever 

What is the likelihood that of MRV between 2 T3's?

- Rich


----------



## ncbagwell

While we have TivoPonys attention on this thread, heres something Ive been wondering about TivoToGo support on the S3. It seems to me that TivoToGo is sometimes used as an all-encompassing term for the following features:

1  Moving shows from the S3 to your PC. This breaks down into a couple of categories:
A  Shows recorded via Cable Cards
i SD shows
ii  HD shows
B  Shows NOT recorded via Cable Cards
i SD analog cable content
ii  OTA HD content

2  Moving shows from other Tivos to the S3 (aka MRV)

3  Moving shows from the S3 to other Tivos (aka MRV). Shows again break into these categories:
A  Shows recorded via Cable Cards
i SD shows
ii  HD shows (obviously wouldnt work on Series 2 Tivos)
B  Shows NOT recorded via Cable Cards
i SD analog cable content
ii  OTA HD content (also wouldnt work on Series 2 Tivos)

4  Moving shows/video from your PC to the S3 (aka TivoToComeBack).


When TivoPony says that they are working on it, I would like to know if it is an all or nothing proposition or will we get pieces of the above rolled out over time. For example, if I could only have #2 in my list above, I would be extremely happy. Next would be #4.


----------



## andyisc00l

Hey !!! Was thinking about getting an S3 but remembered that it might get replaced in august or something...? Anyone heard anything...? Couldn't find much with CES darn...


----------



## MichaelK

RichB said:


> No year. Very clever
> 
> What is the likelihood that of MRV between 2 T3's?
> 
> - Rich


June 30, 2007

LOL

The over under is the date that 50% it could happen before and 50% is could happen after- No? (not a big gambler so I'm thinking that's what we'de mean...)

Kidding aside- I'm thinking the mid year 2007 update will have TTG and MRV for analog and ATSC content. (without HD being able to transfer to s2's). If we hit the comeplete jackpot and tivo gets their DRM (tivogaurd?) approved by cablelabs then digital cable content will also be allowed to get moved to other S3's and vista pc's.

The only comment from tivo about timeframes was an interview at CES where one of the engineers said basically the above and that the timeframe was months.

search for Jim Denney on the boards here and you can find the link the the interview with him with the specifics.

So the question is when will the mid-year 2007 update for the s3 come out. I guess the fact that 8.1 is a couple months late should be factored in. (implied that it would be out by year end 2006 and just coming out now). So maybe July 30th is a better 50/50 date.

JMHO- no need to throw stones- LOL


----------



## MichaelK

ncbagwell said:


> While we have TivoPonys attention on this thread, heres something Ive been wondering about TivoToGo support on the S3. It seems to me that TivoToGo is sometimes used as an all-encompassing term for the following features:
> 
> 1  Moving shows from the S3 to your PC. This breaks down into a couple of categories:
> A  Shows recorded via Cable Cards
> i SD shows
> ii  HD shows
> B  Shows NOT recorded via Cable Cards
> i SD analog cable content
> ii  OTA HD content
> 
> 2  Moving shows from other Tivos to the S3 (aka MRV)
> 
> 3  Moving shows from the S3 to other Tivos (aka MRV). Shows again break into these categories:
> A  Shows recorded via Cable Cards
> i SD shows
> ii  HD shows (obviously wouldnt work on Series 2 Tivos)
> B  Shows NOT recorded via Cable Cards
> i SD analog cable content
> ii  OTA HD content (also wouldnt work on Series 2 Tivos)
> 
> 4  Moving shows/video from your PC to the S3 (aka TivoToComeBack).
> 
> When TivoPony says that they are working on it, I would like to know if it is an all or nothing proposition or will we get pieces of the above rolled out over time. For example, if I could only have #2 in my list above, I would be extremely happy. Next would be #4.


Search for the Jim Denney interview (might be spelling it incorrectly)- He specifically said that he wanted to "set the expectation" that the A content and the B content in your examples above would likely "be handled differently" - If I'm remembering his words correctly.


----------



## matt8268

SCSIRAID, I experience the exact glitch you describe, where the audio drops out, then a burst of pixelation. If you showed this doesn't happen on an 8300 being fed the same signal, that means it's something with the Tivo (my guess would be when the hard drive skips a beat because it's overloaded).

Also, I must comment on this:
"TiVo doesn't have release notes because 'it is not a computer'"

Tivo not a computer...what a joke. Also, Tivo runs software...which has releases...which usually do in fact have release notes. I'm sure Tivo has their reasons for keeping this private, but I would think it would be in their best interest to share this info.


----------



## mattack

Curious -- where in the Tivo UI would I see that it had downloaded the update and was pending restart? (Since I'm recording at 2AM, I want to do it myself.)

On my S1s, it would be in the (paraphrase) "phone information" page IIRC.

On the S3, the various information is in different places. I'm suspecting the "Phone & Network" page, which shows at the very top last call/last successful call, or the "System Information" screen.


----------



## bsd

See the system information screen where it says "status".


----------



## TydalForce

you want the Phone & Network screen.... where it shows the last call time, and usually says "Succeeded", will instead say "Pending Restart"


----------



## cwoody222

Still nothing for me


----------



## kucharsk

cwoody222 said:


> Still nothing for me


Nor here. I suspect as I theorized earlier that now that a day's scheduled connections have occurred, all S3s that will get the update this week _have_, and those of us who haven't are stuck until TiVo "flips the switch" for the balance of the S3 community.


----------



## ingenue007

ive forced update mine many times and dont have the 8.1 update. and my router just died today. i guess i won't be updating until new router comes.


----------



## Animgif

cwoody222 said:


> Still nothing for me


I keep hoping to come home to 8.1...haven't yet either


----------



## Fofer

Saxion said:


> To those of you complaining about slow menu redraw times: Try changing your screen type to "Smart Screen" instead of "16x9 Widescreen". All HD/SD content will still be passed over component/HDMI in native resolution...the only difference will be that the TiVo menu system will now be in SD. Doesn't really change its appearance or functionality, and it draws much faster.


Well I tried this, and seriously it made no difference whatsoever.

All I want is a "Now Playing" menu that draws as quickly as my Series 2 (and Series 1!) did. Right now it seems to draw 1/3 of the screen at a time... it feels like a very sluggish computer.


----------



## kucharsk

Well for those of us who've never had anything but an S3 I have no problems whatsoever with how fast the Now Playing screen draws or even with the speed of Find by Title; in fact I'm still impressed it all works at all. 

If the graphics are directly out of a frame buffer, the screen draw could be slower because it's drawing an HD screen. I haven't tried setting the output to 480i to see if that theory is at all true


----------



## Saxion

Fofer said:


> Well I tried this, and seriously it made no difference whatsoever.


Sorry it didn't help you.  It made my screen redraws (like paging through the Now Playing list) snappier. Yes, it does disable the Aspect control, which I never use anyway. YMMV.


----------



## Saxion

bareyb said:


> Why would this make the Menu System "Standard Def"? I thought native for the Menus was 720?


The menus are 720p when set to Widescreen, but 480i when set to SmartScreen. That's what makes them draw a bit faster.


----------



## ewilts

ingenue007 said:


> ive forced update mine many times and dont have the 8.1 update. and my router just died today. i guess i won't be updating until new router comes.


Use the phone, Luke, use the phone! Seriously, just connect a phone line if you can and the TiVo will get the updates through that when it's darn good and ready (mine hasn't downloaded it yet through broadband either). No reason why you shouldn't at least get guide data for now anyway.

.../Ed


----------



## hookbill

ingenue007 said:


> ive forced update mine many times and dont have the 8.1 update. and my router just died today. i guess i won't be updating until new router comes.


TiVoPony said that if you force updates you get sent to the back of the pack. Now he may have been joking and probably was, still I'm just going to wait for it to get here.

That doesn't mean of course that I'm not looking daily to see if I have "pendng restart" message.


----------



## George Cifranci

I am sure it wouldn't hurt if you forced a download a few times a day. Just don't bang on it like a lab rat hitting the feeder bar in a cage.


----------



## aaronwt

Fofer said:


> Well I tried this, and seriously it made no difference whatsoever.
> 
> All I want is a "Now Playing" menu that draws as quickly as my Series 2 (and Series 1!) did. Right now it seems to draw 1/3 of the screen at a time... it feels like a very sluggish computer.


My Now playing list shows up fast. I certainly don't have to wait for it. I just tried it with folders off. With around 60 titles. It's very fast. I have no complaints. It definitely faster then the HR10-250. I have to wait a half second for those boxes.


----------



## aaronwt

Now this is weird. With folders off or on it's very fast. But with folders on and when I go into the HD folder(which I never use since 95% of what I record is HD)the HD folder is slow when going from page to page. SLow like the HR10-250. But that is the first time I've seen it that slow. Everything else is fast.


----------



## Fofer

aaronwt said:


> My Now playing list shows up fast. I certainly don't have to wait for it. I just tried it with folders off. With around 60 titles. It's very fast. I have no complaints. It definitely faster then the HR10-250. I have to wait a half second for those boxes.


I have a lot of recordings. About 100. Folders are on. Paging down from one screen to the next... just looks and feels sluggish. The screen draw is what's slow. Playback and FF/RW are all fine though (thank goodness.)


----------



## cwoody222

hookbill said:


> TiVoPony said that if you force updates you get sent to the back of the pack. Now he may have been joking and probably was, still I'm just going to wait for it to get here.
> 
> That doesn't mean of course that I'm not looking daily to see if I have "pendng restart" message.


He was joking.

The only way to get the software is when your lucky number comes up.

Forcing a call will only get it a few hours earlier (like if you force a call at 5pm when your next scheduled is at 9pm and your number is ready to download).


----------



## hookbill

cwoody222 said:


> He was joking.
> 
> The only way to get the software is when your lucky number comes up.
> 
> Forcing a call will only get it a few hours earlier (like if you force a call at 5pm when your next scheduled is at 9pm and your number is ready to download).


OK, but remember the old saying, "a watched pot never boils."


----------



## randywalters

matt8268 said:


> SCSIRAID, I experience the exact glitch you describe, where the audio drops out, then a burst of pixelation. If you showed this doesn't happen on an 8300 being fed the same signal, that means it's something with the Tivo (my guess would be when the hard drive skips a beat because it's overloaded).


My Tivo does the exact same thing several times per hour. The SA8300HD sitting next to the Tivo, sharing the same cable feed never ever does this so it's definitely the Tivo here too. It happens on Speedchannel a lot, but not as much on the local "HD" channels. I've interchanged the cables and tried connecting the raw feed directly to the Tivo but it still does it the same no matter what. I thought i was getting the update the other day (long phone call) but i still have the old 8.0.1c-01-2-648. Man i really hope the new update fixes this - i hate it so much that i end up watching important stuff on my 8300HD which is preposterous after laying out a thousand dollars for Tivo.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

hookbill said:


> OK, but remember the old saying, "a watched pot never boils."


But that's always struck me as a stupid saying. Of COURSE a watched pot boils! It boils exactly as fast as an unwatched pot. The only difference is, if you're watching then you KNOW it has boiled sooner than if you're not watching.

Sheesh, what a stupid saying. What are these people thinking?!? Watched pot never boils, sheesh.


----------



## rcr2

Here's hoping I get the update before my CableCard install, which is scheduled for Monday afternoon.. 3 days away.

I'm hoping having the latest update will make the Comcast install go smoother.


----------



## Mike Farrington

rcr2 said:


> Here's hoping I get the update before my CableCard install, which is scheduled for Monday afternoon.. 3 days away.
> 
> I'm hoping having the latest update will make the Comcast install go smoother.


Make sure you check for a Pending Restart before your installer arrives. The last thing you want is to have to sit through the update with the installer there.


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson

George Cifranci said:


> I am sure it wouldn't hurt if you forced a download a few times a day. Just don't bang on it like a lab rat hitting the feeder bar in a cage.


Wouldn't help, either. For previous rollouts, my recollection (based on a post from Pony or TiVoOpsMgr) is that the set of machines to be updated is updated once a day, late in TiVo's business day. If you're going to force a daily call, then once a day sometime after 5pm Pacific would probably cover you.


----------



## BruceShultes

Be careful if you force any calls or network connections during a time when you normally want to watch tv. 

From the information displayed on my S3, it appears that whenever you make a connection, the time when your S3 will next try to connect by itself is re-set to about 24 hours after your last successful connection. 

If you don't receive the update now, it will start it and re-boot the S3 the next connection after it is downloaded. If this does it on it's own while you are watching or recording something, you will lose part of the show. 

Anytime I have forced a connection during prime time, I try to force another one sometime between 1AM and 2AM so my recordings do not get interrupted.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs

Actually, no matter what time the update is downloaded, it isn't installed until 2:00AM (I think) or when you manually restart the system.


----------



## hookbill

BruceShultes said:


> Be careful if you force any calls or network connections during a time when you normally want to watch tv.
> 
> From the information displayed on my S3, it appears that whenever you make a connection, the time when your S3 will next try to connect by itself is re-set to about 24 hours after your last successful connection.
> 
> If you don't receive the update now, it will start it and re-boot the S3 the next connection after it is downloaded. If this does it on it's own while you are watching or recording something, you will lose part of the show.
> 
> Anytime I have forced a connection during prime time, I try to force another one sometime between 1AM and 2AM so my recordings do not get interrupted.


I've noticed a pattern on mine. Today it won't call in until after 5 p.m. Then It will call in tomorrow at around 3:00 am. It seems to reset the cycle every Saturday and never calls later the 6:00 pm.

And Rob (I started to type Midevildude...wow) is absolutely right it only restarts like at 2 or 3 am.


----------



## cwoody222

That's weird. I thought it was on a 26 hour cycle or something? (so it's not always 'calling' in at the same time... a holdover from the dial-up days where it didn't want to always encouter a busy signal if it was trying during a time when the phone was often busy)


----------



## hookbill

cwoody222 said:


> That's weird. I thought it was on a 26 hour cycle or something? (so it's not always 'calling' in at the same time... a holdover from the dial-up days where it didn't want to always encouter a busy signal if it was trying during a time when the phone was often busy)


It does accept it seems to reset itself every Saturday. I don't know why. On Sunday it will be like at 5 am, Monday 7 etc etc.


----------



## drew00001

I bet the software has already downloaded, and TIVO is pacing its distribution of the final instructions.


----------



## Fofer

drew00001 said:


> I bet the software has already downloaded, and TIVO is pacing its distribution of the final instructions.


I'll take that bet.


----------



## George Cifranci

drew00001 said:


> I bet the software has already downloaded, and TIVO is pacing its distribution of the final instructions.


If the 8.1.1 upgrade has already been downloaded to your TiVo it will say "Pending Restart".


----------



## drew00001

George Cifranci said:


> If the 8.1.1 upgrade has already been downloaded to your TiVo it will say "Pending Restart".


Not necessarily. It is my understanding that the Tivo hardrive has several partitions, two of which are earmarked for the TIVO software. Of these two, one of which runs the current software, and the other is used for download of a "new" patch. Sometime after the new software has fully downloaded, Tivo sends an instruction to reboot from the "new" patch's partition. Until that instruction is sent, the old software runs from it's separate partition. This pattern continues over time, and the software switches which partition it is running from.

I should note that my understanding of Tivo's downloads comes from my S1 that I used until I received the S3 last fall. The S1 did not have broadband access (without hacks), so downloads took place over several days via dial-up. This may have changed some with the S2 and S3, though the Amazon/Tivo articles report that Tivo only has 1.5 million Tivos with broadband access. I expect there are still many more Tivos in operation that still use dial-up, so download of new software likely takes place over several days (at least for the dial up users).


----------



## hookbill

drew00001 said:


> Not necessarily. It is my understanding that the Tivo hardrive has several partitions, two of which are earmarked for the TIVO software. Of these two, one of which runs the current software, and the other is used for download of a "new" patch. Sometime after the new software has fully downloaded, Tivo sends an instruction to reboot from the "new" patch's partition. Until that instruction is sent, the old software runs from it's separate partition. This pattern continues over time, and the software switches which partition it is running from.
> 
> I should note that my understanding of Tivo's downloads comes from my S1 that I used until I received the S3 last fall. The S1 did not have broadband access (without hacks), so downloads took place over several days via dial-up. This may have changed some with the S2 and S3, though the Amazon/Tivo articles report that Tivo only has 1.5 million Tivos with broadband access. I expect there are still many more Tivos in operation that still use dial-up, so download of new software likely takes place over several days (at least for the dial up users).


Sorry, your wrong George is right.

When you call in either by phone or internet you can see if the call is complete. If you received a download it will say "pending restart". It's in two spots it's in the system information and also in the settings, phone area. I've done many "forced downloads" and it's easy to see when an update is taking place, 1. because it takes much longer then a regular call in and 2, the areas I mentioned above.

And when it downloads over the phone it takes a long, long time. There's no partial download, it all comes in at once.


----------



## George Cifranci

drew00001> Back in 2001 or 2002 when I just had a Series 1 using dialup, I would have a heck of a time downloading software updates. The updates would take a very long time to download and I was having phone line issues and the modem would keep dropping. When it dropped it would have to dial and start over again. It got so bad that I had to call TiVo since I was running out of guide data (it wouldn't let me download guide data until the service update was downloaded). So that leads me to believe that software updates come down during one connection not over a period of connections.


----------



## drew00001

hookbill said:


> Sorry, your wrong George is right.
> 
> When you call in either by phone or internet you can see if the call is complete. If you received a download it will say "pending restart". It's in two spots it's in the system information and also in the settings, phone area. I've done many "forced downloads" and it's easy to see when an update is taking place, 1. because it takes much longer then a regular call in and 2, the areas I mentioned above.
> 
> And when it downloads over the phone it takes a long, long time. There's no partial download, it all comes in at once.


Have you consided the difference between a minor update and new system software update? How do you know the Tivo patch does not download over several days?


----------



## CrispyCritter

drew00001 said:


> Not necessarily. It is my understanding that the Tivo hardrive has several partitions, two of which are earmarked for the TIVO software. Of these two, one of which runs the current software, and the other is used for download of a "new" patch. Sometime after the new software has fully downloaded, Tivo sends an instruction to reboot from the "new" patch's partition. Until that instruction is sent, the old software runs from it's separate partition. This pattern continues over time, and the software switches which partition it is running from.
> 
> I should note that my understanding of Tivo's downloads comes from my S1 that I used until I received the S3 last fall. The S1 did not have broadband access (without hacks), so downloads took place over several days via dial-up. This may have changed some with the S2 and S3, though the Amazon/Tivo articles report that Tivo only has 1.5 million Tivos with broadband access. I expect there are still many more Tivos in operation that still use dial-up, so download of new software likely takes place over several days (at least for the dial up users).


They certainly have the capability to do that, but I'm unaware that they actually do that on releases. I've been on a number of "priority lists" and have upgraded a good number of TiVos. It's always been the case that I've downloaded the complete release all at once, and immediately had a "pending restart".

Are you sure it wasn't just a case of your phone connection dropping, and having to restart to get the rest of the update on the next call? I believe they added that capability a couple of years ago. But I also suffered through the "crossing fingers, hoping to get through the entire call this time!" during the early days.

In any case, there's no reason for that here. They want to see if there are problems with the release before they flip the big switch. So they're going to send the whole thing and activate it now.


----------



## drew00001

CrispyCritter said:


> Are you sure it wasn't just a case of your phone connection dropping, and having to restart to get the rest of the update on the next call?


I have never used dial up with a Tivo. My S1 was given to me with a Turbonet card installed. The Turbonet card started acting funky, so I upgraded to a Cachecard and added 512mb ram. (btw, this cachecard setup provided lightning quick menu functionality . . . the only thing I miss about the S1).


----------



## drew00001

How many MBs is a new system software update? It just seems as it would have been impracticle for Tivo to try to download such in one day over dial-up.


----------



## NJChris

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Sheesh, what a stupid saying. What are these people thinking?!? Watched pot never boils, sheesh.


The saying is true. Also a not-watched pot never boils either. The water boils, not the pot. JEEEZ...


----------



## MichaelK

hookbill said:


> It does accept it seems to reset itself every Saturday. I don't know why. On Sunday it will be like at 5 am, Monday 7 etc etc.


pretty neat-

maybe on the weekend the mothership assigns times for the week to try and stagger the connections during the day. They need to have the infrasctructure to support the peak volume so if you can even it throughout the day then you are better off.


----------



## MichaelK

drew00001 said:


> Have you consided the difference between a minor update and new system software update? How do you know the Tivo patch does not download over several days?


it makes little sense to "pre-download" with non Directv units. At times they stop a rollout in mid path to correct some bug- if you already downloaded 8.1 to everyone and installed on 10% but found that you need to fix a bug with 8.2 then you wasted resources to download to 90% of the people that never used it. Also as above there's somethign to be said for keeping your peak infrastructure needs to a minimum. If you Download to everyone ove ra couple days then send a small "go signal" over weeks or months you've created a huge peak over those 2-3 days that wasn't needed. You would be better served to download it to a few percent each night.

I think you may be confusing what happens on the Directv combo units. Directv can broadcast data non-stop. They use variable encoding for their streams so they are forced to leave a pillow of slack space for peak motion video scenes. Most of the time the "pillow" would be wasted. To use it more efficiently they send down the non video/audia infor like the time and guide data AND software updates for their boxes in that pillow to use every last bit of data. Becasue of that when they roll new code for their boxes they just broadcast that update over and over for days on end in that slack pillow space. IN that case most Directv boxes get updates within a few days of release but then require a trigger to install it at some later date.


----------



## Boot

suzook said:


> but where the hell is my update? why is it taking so long to send the update out? lets go tivo, send the goddamn update already!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well, it sure was nice to get advance notice that an update is being rolled out. Too bad they'll never do that again. Thanks.


----------



## TydalForce

re: phone connections and updates...

TiVo will try to download the entire update at once. If your connection is interrupted, it'll save what it has and continue the next time it phones home. 

So you're all right (c:


----------



## gwsat

hookbill said:


> Sorry, your wrong George is right.
> 
> When you call in either by phone or internet you can see if the call is complete. If you received a download it will say "pending restart". It's in two spots it's in the system information and also in the settings, phone area. I've done many "forced downloads" and it's easy to see when an update is taking place, 1. because it takes much longer then a regular call in and 2, the areas I mentioned above.


Thanks. I noticed earlier that my System Information screens showed Pending restart, After I read the recent posts to this thread, I forced a restart and, Voila!, I had version 8.1 after the restart.


----------



## cokyq

PATIENCE is a virtue!


----------



## ADG

suzook said:


> but where the hell is my update? why is it taking so long to send the update out? lets go tivo, send the goddamn update already!!!!!!!!!!!!


EDIT: Never mind. I stated my feelings about this post but after further consideration decided to delete them. I'm sure we all feel the same way about posts like this.


----------



## mattack

drew00001 said:


> I have never used dial up with a Tivo. My S1 was given to me with a Turbonet card installed. The Turbonet card started acting funky,


How funky? do you still have it? Does it work at all?? I'd be interested in playing with the funkiness even if it works sporadically.. (trying to be able to cancel my phone line, but the list prices for the turbonets is pretty high..) I would've PMed you if you allowed it.


----------



## mattack

Fofer said:


> I have a lot of recordings. About 100. Folders are on. Paging down from one screen to the next... just looks and feels sluggish. The screen draw is what's slow.


I don't know if you've ever seen a Series 1, and I'm not positive that this is what you're describing. But on the S3, and on a friend's DirecTivo unit, I'd say that I experience the "slow screen draw". But I would actually call it a non-elegant screen draw.

They've actually made things *faster* by making it less polished from a UI perspective. It doesn't get everything done, and then splat it all to the screen all finished. You see it draw sections at a time, which makes it seem slow, but in actuality it is a lot faster than the S1..

I'm not 100% sure which one I prefer. I definitely like the speed (god, waiting ~10-20 seconds for my Now Playing list on my S1 to come up is torture), but it is un-polished to some degree. (Hey, I work at that "fruit company" that Forrest Gump mentioned, so I notice UI..)


----------



## Fofer

mattack said:


> I don't know if you've ever seen a Series 1, and I'm not positive that this is what you're describing. But on the S3, and on a friend's DirecTivo unit, I'd say that I experience the "slow screen draw". But I would actually call it a non-elegant screen draw.


I have owned a Series 1 as well as some Series 2's. And this one just feels slowest of them all when navigating through the UI, even when just looking for a show to watch.

So, here's a video, you can see what I am describing. I am purposefully clicking the remote really loudly so you can hear (and perhaps sense) some of the delay. I sometimes have to press the button on the remote a few times to "take" while the screen is drawing... it's almost as if the S3 is concentrating so hard on drawing (!) that it has to ignore the IR for a moment. It's also especially bad when I go INTO a folder. The display gets really slow then.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much from this pricey box, but I would have liked to see the displays of page 2 and 3 and 4 of recordings snap on in full, not "draw" 1/3 of the page at a time...

http://homepage.mac.com/joshr/tc/tivoseries3sluggish.MP4


----------



## synch22

great video....and yeah thats pretty slow stuff. Ding ding another knock on the series 3


----------



## hookbill

synch22 said:


> great video....and yeah thats pretty slow stuff. Ding ding another knock on the series 3


It's not a knock on the S3 from my point of view. It's just how the S3, a totally different machine handles it then the way the S2 did. And I have patience for this


----------



## hookbill

drew00001 said:


> I have never used dial up with a Tivo. My S1 was given to me with a Turbonet card installed. The Turbonet card started acting funky, so I upgraded to a Cachecard and added 512mb ram. (btw, this cachecard setup provided lightning quick menu functionality . . . the only thing I miss about the S1).


Yes I used dialup with the D-Tivo. Some downloads took a long time.


----------



## Fofer

hookbill said:


> It's just how the S3, a totally different machine handles it then the way the S2 did.


While it might be "totally different" under the hood in terms if design, implementation and capability, it's still a TiVo, with the same OS and same UI. It's still a DVR. It's still a device I sit down in front of at the end of a long day, when I want to lean back and browse through recordings, in order to pick a TV show to watch. This is not the sort of thing I should be "forgiving" about when it comes to just showing me a simple list of shows I've already recorded.

I'm not even talking about searching through a database for new things to record or wishlist. I'll excuse sluggishness there since I don't do it often and it's a huge amount of data to search through.

I'm focusing specifically on the basic task of scrolling through a list of ~100 recordings and a bunch of folders. That's just a simple listing... why should it feel like I am wading through molasses?


----------



## bareyb

Fofer said:


> it's almost as if the S3 is concentrating so hard on drawing (!) that it has to ignore the IR for a moment.
> http://homepage.mac.com/joshr/tc/tivoseries3sluggish.MP4


That's kind of how I take it too. Seems like it doesn't multi-task with the IR real well. The IR on these machines is in general more hinky than any of the other TiVo boxes I've had. I use an RF remote for an out of sight cabinet and getting the emitters to work with the S3 is an ongoing challenge. One week they work with the box really close (this week) to the emitter and the next week I have to shove the boxes back as far as they will go AWAY from the emitters. Weird. Never had so much trouble before. It seems to be working now so I'll keep my fingers crossed. I'm hoping future software updates will fix some of the problems. The IR and redraw are really the main issues for me. That and a couple of features that are still a little buggy (like "record as planned" not showing up in the live guide).


----------



## hookbill

Fofer said:


> It's still a DVR.


No, it's not. It is a Digital Media Rcorder (DMR)

Ok I know you going to say symantics but I just call it what it is.


----------



## Fofer

It's a consumer electronic, an appliance for my TV.


----------



## George Cifranci

Fofer said:


> I have owned a Series 1 as well as some Series 2's. And this one just feels slowest of them all when navigating through the UI, even when just looking for a show to watch.
> 
> So, here's a video, you can see what I am describing. I am purposefully clicking the remote really loudly so you can hear (and perhaps sense) some of the delay. I sometimes have to press the button on the remote a few times to "take" while the screen is drawing... it's almost as if the S3 is concentrating so hard on drawing (!) that it has to ignore the IR for a moment. It's also especially bad when I go INTO a folder. The display gets really slow then.
> 
> Perhaps I'm expecting too much from this pricey box, but I would have liked to see the displays of page 2 and 3 and 4 of recordings snap on in full, not "draw" 1/3 of the page at a time...
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/joshr/tc/tivoseries3sluggish.MP4


Here is a video I took of my Series 3 with the 8.1.1 software (sorry in advance for the crappy camera work)...

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/series3_nowplaying.mpg

First, I went to the "Now Playing" page and pressed the page down button and didn't press it again until the page was done drawing. When I got to the very bottom of the list, I held the "page up" button down until I got to the top. Then I held the page button down button until I reached the bottom of the list.

I used the TiVo remote to do this.

In my mind the speed is fine in regards to paging up and down the Now Playing list. The "Search by Title" page is another matter.


----------



## TerpBE

George Cifranci said:


> Here is a video I took of my Series 3 with the 8.1.1 software (sorry in advance for the crappy camera work)...


Two episodes of "Bikini Destinations"?


----------



## Fofer

That's a bit encouraging... looks faster to me, at least. :up:


----------



## cherry ghost

Fofer said:


> That's a bit encouraging... looks faster to me, at least. :up:


Are you using your S3 remote or a Harmony?


----------



## George Cifranci

TerpBE said:


> Two episodes of "Bikini Destinations"?


Yeah, 2 "Best Of" episodes.


----------



## Fofer

cherry ghost said:


> Are you using your S3 remote or a Harmony?


Currently my S3 remote - and that's what I used in the video. But I plan to switch back to my Harmony when my new A/V setup is complete. Why?


----------



## Omikron

Fofer said:


> Currently my S3 remote - and that's what I used in the video. But I plan to switch back to my Harmony when my new A/V setup is complete. Why?


Well because of the way the Harmony processes IR signals, it introduces a slight delay during usage. Even though I've spent much time and research tweaking the settings of my 880, there is still a fairly noticeable delay on the Harmony vs. the original TiVo remote.


----------



## cokyq

I have a harmony 720 and the TiVo S3 remote, there is no difference in performance, no matter which remote I use.

My S3 behaves similarly to George's video, but I still do not have 8.1 update.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Fofer said:


> I'm focusing specifically on the basic task of scrolling through a list of ~100 recordings and a bunch of folders. That's just a simple listing... why should it feel like I am wading through molasses?


I agree with what you're saying. To me a responsive GUI is 2nd only to reliable recording. Much more important than some sort of Kids Zone (whatever that is). Much more important than TTG, than MRV, than partnerships with Amazon.

Too bad TiVo is being run by a bunch of glad-handing "suits" and "dealmakers" who live for their next PR release and who just don't understand the importance of this basic functionality.

The software has been sluggish in many ways since day 1.

You could think that by now, on day 2700 (more or less) of the TiVo "revolution" that TiVo would have been able to hire a competent programmer or two who could tighten up the code a little.

You could think that, but you'd be wrong.

WordStar on a 2 MHz Z80 did a better job in its GUI in many respects. And that was nearly30 years ago.


----------



## jjd

Omikron said:


> Well because of the way the Harmony processes IR signals, it introduces a slight delay during usage. Even though I've spent much time and research tweaking the settings of my 880, there is still a fairly noticeable delay on the Harmony vs. the original TiVo remote.


The only time I ever notice the delay on the Harmony 880 is when I hold the key down for repeated key press generation.

On my Denon A/V receiver which inexplicably increments volume in 0.5db steps, holding down the volume up button on the denon remote increases volume much more quickly than holding down the volume up button on the Harmony.

I'm guessing that there might be Harmony parameters that can be updated to increase the keypress rate (possibly by limiting the length of the keypress or the inter-keypress delay) but I haven't looked into it.

--Jim--


----------



## aaronwt

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I agree with what you're saying. To me a responsive GUI is 2nd only to reliable recording. Much more important than some sort of Kids Zone (whatever that is). Much more important than TTG, than MRV, than partnerships with Amazon.
> 
> Too bad TiVo is being run by a bunch of glad-handing "suits" and "dealmakers" who live for their next PR release and who just don't understand the importance of this basic functionality.
> 
> The software has been sluggish in many ways since day 1.
> 
> You could think that by now, on day 2700 (more or less) of the TiVo "revolution" that TiVo would have been able to hire a competent programmer or two who could tighten up the code a little.
> 
> You could think that, but you'd be wrong.
> 
> WordStar on a 2 MHz Z80 did a better job in its GUI in many respects. And that was nearly30 years ago.


Are we using the same TiVos. I've used DirecTV SD TiVos, Single tune S2, HR10-250s, and the S3. The HR10-250 was the slowest until the 6.xx update. The GUI is excellent. Better than the other DVRs I've seen and the TiVo is the most reliable


----------



## cherry ghost

Fofer said:


> Currently my S3 remote - and that's what I used in the video. But I plan to switch back to my Harmony when my new A/V setup is complete. Why?


I was having problems with the S3 taking some commands one after the other from my Harmony until I made some adjustments and thought that that could partially be the problem your having, but I guess not.


----------



## Fofer

George Cifranci said:


> Here is a video I took of my Series 3 with the 8.1.1 software (sorry in advance for the crappy camera work)...
> 
> http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/series3_nowplaying.mpg


George, thanks for making this video... quick question for you. Did the menus on your S3 perform about the same with 8.0.1c, or was 8.1.1 an improvement for you?

I ask because some folks are saying their menus appear just like yours, and they are still on 8.0.1c! So now I'm thinking my unit's a slow one and 8.1.1 won't actually make it better.


----------



## George Cifranci

Fofer said:


> George, thanks for making this video... quick question for you. Did the menus on your S3 perform about the same with 8.0.1c, or was 8.1.1 an improvement for you?
> 
> I ask because some folks are saying their menus appear just like yours, and they are still on 8.0.1c! So now I'm thinking my unit's a slow one and 8.1.1 won't actually make it better.


With the other issues I was having (reboots, lockups, slow Search by Title, etc....) I am not sure I payed close attention to how fast the menu screen draws of the "Now Playing Screen" were. It is possible they are a bit faster, but to be honest, I am not sure.


----------



## Fofer

George Cifranci said:


> With the other issues I was having (reboots, lockups, slow Search by Title, etc....) I am not sure I payed close attention to how fast the menu screen draws of the "Now Playing Screen" were. It is possible they are a bit faster, but to be honest, I am not sure.


Gotcha, thanks for the reply.

Then for others reading, will you please take a look at these two videos, and tell us which your S3 display of "Now Playing" menu more closely resembles? Along with whether you're on 8.0.x or 8.1.x.

http://homepage.mac.com/joshr/tc/tivoseries3sluggish.MP4
http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/series3_nowplaying.mpg


----------



## SCSIRAID

Fofer said:


> Gotcha, thanks for the reply.
> 
> Then for others reading, will you please take a look at these two videos, and tell us which your S3 display of "Now Playing" menu more closely resembles? Along with whether you're on 8.0.x or 8.1.x.
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/joshr/tc/tivoseries3sluggish.MP4
> http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/series3_nowplaying.mpg


My 8.0 is like the first one...


----------



## Animgif

Fofer said:


> Gotcha, thanks for the reply.
> 
> Then for others reading, will you please take a look at these two videos, and tell us which your S3 display of "Now Playing" menu more closely resembles? Along with whether you're on 8.0.x or 8.1.x.
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/joshr/tc/tivoseries3sluggish.MP4
> http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/series3_nowplaying.mpg


My 8.0 (which has not been in service very long at all, just a week or so) is like the first, sluggish.


----------



## aaronwt

I see what you mean. 8.1 is faster than 8.0 in displaying the Now Playing list.
Here are two videos I made comparing the two.

Now Playing List with 8.0

Now Playing List with 8.1

I went through the list first with groups on, then I took groups off and went through the list again.

This page brings up both movies
http://tivo.aaronwt.com/tivo/


----------



## moyekj

George Cifranci said:


> Here is a video I took of my Series 3 with the 8.1.1 software (sorry in advance for the crappy camera work)...


 WOW, that's light speed fast! I've never seen anything close to that kind of speed with my S3. If I get 1/3 of the speed you are getting with 8.1 I'll be very happy. Perhaps that upgraded hard drive you have really helps too?


----------



## slimoli

I'm glad you guys are talking about the S3 menu speed and not about any serious bug anymore. Now, what about turning the big switch on?


----------



## Fofer

moyekj said:


> WOW, that's light speed fast! I've never seen anything close to that kind of speed with my S3. If I get 1/3 of the speed you are getting with 8.1 I'll be very happy. Perhaps that upgraded hard drive you have really helps too?


What upgraded hard drive, George? (Just to know if we are comparing apples with apples here.)

I was thinking that a larger hard drive (ie: 750 GB) would potentially be a cause for slowdown... hopefully not though, it shouldn't matter, right?


----------



## Fofer

slimoli said:


> I'm glad you guys are talking about the S3 menu speed and not about any serious bug anymore. Now, what about turning the big switch on?


To each his own, but I think the S3 menu speed _is_ a serious issue. Perhaps I wouldn't go so far as to classify it as a "bug," but its certainly a UI/code optimization thing.

It makes the unit somewhat unpleasant to use. And this is the operation I do 90% of the time I interface with my TiVo (that is, when I'm not actually _watching a show_.) It feels sluggish, unreliable, and... broken. I feel as though it could freeze, while is struggles to display my show listing, 1/3 of the page at a time.

That said, I eagerly await my download of 8.1 to see if it's been properly addressed.


----------



## George Cifranci

moyekj said:


> WOW, that's light speed fast! I've never seen anything close to that kind of speed with my S3. If I get 1/3 of the speed you are getting with 8.1 I'll be very happy. Perhaps that upgraded hard drive you have really helps too?


I don't know. I would think physical memory would be more important.

I know on the Series 1 it was limited to 16MB of memory and if you added a lot more disc space, which would allow you to record way more shows and have a much longer list of shows, it would slow it down because the S1 didn't have enough memory. But since we all have the same memory on the S3 I can't see that as the issue.

I think it is just a code optimization issue. I will be curious how yours is after 8.1.1.


----------



## George Cifranci

Fofer said:


> What upgraded hard drive, George? (Just to know if we are comparing apples with apples here.)
> 
> I bought a 750GB Seagate DB35 upgrade drive from Weaknees. It already had the Series 3 software on it and it was ready to go. In fact I received the Series 3 and the 750GB drive from Weaknees in the same delivery from UPS (great timing). I replaced the 250GB drive with my 750GB drive before even turning on the Series 3 for the first time. If you get a upgrade drive make sure it is a hard drive designed for DVR use like the Seagate DB35's. They are very very quiet.


http://www.weaknees.com/details2/rs750s325.php

The 750GB Seagate DB35 from Weakness is a bit expensive ($499) but it has the TiVo S3 software already on it. If you are a do-it-yourself kinda person, you can get the bare Seagate D35 a lot cheaper elsewhere and copy the contents of your old drive to the new one.

http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.j...aafd010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&reqPage=Model



> I was thinking that a larger hard drive (ie: 750 GB) would potentially be a cause for slowdown... hopefully not though, it shouldn't matter, right?


Well that was certainly an issue with the Series 1 TiVos that only had 16MB of memory. The bigger the hard drive meant the longer the list of shows recorded on your TiVo. I don't see that as the issue on the S3 though. In my case 99% of the time I record only HD programs (which limits me to 98 hours worth of shows).

I just checked something...

My Series 2 has two 120GB hard drives which gives me about 150 hours of SD in HIGH quality (which is my default quality setting). With groups turned on paging down the list isn't bad. But turn groups OFF so that I now have 26 pages (8 shows listed per page) for a total of 182 shows listed (the show listed at the very bottom of a page is also listed at the top of the next page) and it becomes a lot slower.


----------



## Fofer

George Cifranci said:


> I know on the Series 1 it was limited to 16MB of memory and if you added a lot more disc space, which would allow you to record way more shows and have a much longer list of shows, it would slow it down because the S1 didn't have enough memory. But since we all have the same memory on the S3 I can't see that as the issue.


Same memory, but we don't all have the same disk space (as you've explained in the post just above.)

I, too, have the weaknees 750 GB drive upgrade -- and in reading last night I began to fear that the unexpected sluggishness was due to that.

So your comments (and video) make me even more hopeful for 8.1. <fingers crossed>


----------



## Fofer

aaronwt said:


> I see what you mean. 8.1 is faster than 8.0 in displaying the Now Playing list.
> Here are two videos I made comparing the two.
> 
> Now Playing List with 8.0
> 
> Now Playing List with 8.1
> 
> I went through the list first with groups on, then I took groups off and went through the list again.
> 
> This page brings up both movies
> http://tivo.aaronwt.com/tivo/


Thanks so much for this aaronwt. One thing you didn't do in your videos (and the one area that seems to be MOST sluggish for me) is going INTO a folder. I was watching and hoping you'd do that to compare... 

With lots of recordings I really need to leave Folders on (even if browsing is slower.) But when I go INTO one of those folders (as shown in my video,) the slowness is most apparent.


----------



## drew00001

mattack said:


> How funky? do you still have it? Does it work at all?? I'd be interested in playing with the funkiness even if it works sporadically.. (trying to be able to cancel my phone line, but the list prices for the turbonets is pretty high..) I would've PMed you if you allowed it.


Sorry, I tossed the turbonet, but the Cachecard (with ethernet) is still in the S1. I leant the S1 to a freind (until the one year license expires), but don't think he is using it. Let me know if you're interested, and I'll reclaim the box.


----------



## George Cifranci

Fofer said:


> Thanks so much for this aaronwt. One thing you didn't do in your videos (and the one area that seems to be MOST sluggish for me) is going INTO a folder. I was watching and hoping you'd do that to compare...
> 
> With lots of recordings I really need to leave Folders on (even if browsing is slower.) But when I go INTO one of those folders (as shown in my video,) the slowness is most apparent.


I hadn't tried that before. I just went into my HD folder (filled with about 80 plus recordings) and it is very slow. It takes maybe 2.5 to seconds per page. I am running 8.1.1.


----------



## Welshdog

Omikron said:


> Well because of the way the Harmony processes IR signals, it introduces a slight delay during usage. Even though I've spent much time and research tweaking the settings of my 880, there is still a fairly noticeable delay on the Harmony vs. the original TiVo remote.


I totally agree with you. I have a 659 and I have tried many many different settings, numerous firmware updates etc etc. It clearly introduces a delay into Tivo control.

One thing I have not been able to prove is that I think the Harmony got slower after they did an update last year. At first I thought it was the Tivo because it happened around the same time as a Tivo update. Then I picked up a Tivo remote - super fast (compared to the Harmony at least).


----------



## cherry ghost

Welshdog said:


> I totally agree with you. I have a 659 and I have tried many many different settings, numerous firmware updates etc etc. It clearly introduces a delay into Tivo control.
> 
> One thing I have not been able to prove is that I think the Harmony got slower after they did an update last year. At first I thought it was the Tivo because it happened around the same time as a Tivo update. Then I picked up a Tivo remote - super fast (compared to the Harmony at least).


YMMV

Go to S3 in your device list and click "troubleshoot"-->"show me more problems"-->"S3 doesn't appear to receive every command correctly"-->"the device responds to some commands occasionally (for example, I have to press a number key several times before the device responds)"-->"2"

My S1 and S2 work best with this setting on "0" and the default for the S3 is "1", but I've found that "2" gets me the closest to the speed of the S3 remote.


----------



## rainwater

Welshdog said:


> I totally agree with you. I have a 659 and I have tried many many different settings, numerous firmware updates etc etc. It clearly introduces a delay into Tivo control.
> 
> One thing I have not been able to prove is that I think the Harmony got slower after they did an update last year. At first I thought it was the Tivo because it happened around the same time as a Tivo update. Then I picked up a Tivo remote - super fast (compared to the Harmony at least).


Have you tried setting the inter-key delay to 0 and the command repeat count to 0? The second one is a bit hard to find but its in the troubleshooting section.


----------



## HD_Dude

Hi...

Here it is 5 days later, and I still have 8.01....any idea when the 8.1 update will hit the majority of us?

Thanks


----------



## aaronwt

It's supposed to have a wider release next week assuming they didn't have any problems with the limited release.


----------



## hookbill

HD_Dude said:


> Hi...
> 
> Here it is 5 days later, and I still have 8.01....any idea when the 8.1 update will hit the majority of us?
> 
> Thanks


Come HD_Dude. It's on the first post of this thread.


----------



## MichaelK

Fofer said:


> What upgraded hard drive, George? (Just to know if we are comparing apples with apples here.)
> 
> I was thinking that a larger hard drive (ie: 750 GB) would potentially be a cause for slowdown... hopefully not though, it shouldn't matter, right?


can't say for sure with the s3 since i dropped the larger drive in on day 1. But I've had S1 standalones, s1 directivos, s2 standalones, and s2 directivos and in all cases adding a bigger drive slows the bad boy down. I guess the optimize the code for the size drives they supply and when we go bigger we're outside the sweet spot.


----------



## Fofer

MichaelK said:


> can't say for sure with the s3 since i dropped the larger drive in on day 1. But I've had S1 standalones, s1 directivos, s2 standalones, and s2 directivos and in all cases adding a bigger drive slows the bad boy down. I guess the optimize the code for the size drives they supply and when we go bigger we're outside the sweet spot.


But folks with the stock, original 250 GB drive say theirs is just as slow.


----------



## MichaelK

I supsect they would get even slower with the bigger drives. If they have just the stock drive there's no frame of reference (like I dont have a frame of reference now without the big drive in an S3)

Can anyone comment on before and after they upgraded their drive? DId it get worse or stay the same?


----------



## greg_burns

MichaelK said:


> I suspect they would get even slower with the bigger drives. If they have just the stock drive there's no frame of reference (like I dont have a frame of reference now without the big drive in an S3)
> 
> Can anyone comment on before and after they upgraded their drive? DId it get worse or stay the same?


I have two S3s. One is upgraded to 1TB, the other is stock. They are both pre 8.1.

The TB S3 is a little slower. I suspect because there is just a ton more recordings on it, but I'm not sure.


----------



## MichaelK

greg_burns said:


> ...
> The TB S3 is a little slower. I suspect because there is just a ton more recordings on it, but I'm not sure.


my experience with all the other units has been as you get more recordings it gets slower.


----------



## hookbill

greg_burns said:


> I have two S3s. One is upgraded to 1TB, the other is stock. They are both pre 8.1.
> 
> The TB S3 is a little slower. I suspect because there is just a ton more recordings on it, but I'm not sure.


hookbill>humbly bows at greg_burns in admiration. Wow. 3 S3's and one with 1TB. Just wow.

I hope to have two S3's but I'm waiting on MRV. It will happen. :up:


----------



## greg_burns

hookbill said:


> hookbill>humbly bows at greg_burns in admiration. Wow. 3 S3's and one with 1TB. Just wow.
> 
> I hope to have two S3's but I'm waiting on MRV. It will happen. :up:


Alas, I have only two S3s. I felt compelled to transfer both lifetimes from my S2s.


----------



## hookbill

greg_burns said:


> Alas, I have only two S3s. I felt compelled to transfer both lifetimes from my S2s.


Showoff!


----------



## andyisc00l

andyisc00l said:


> Hey !!! Was thinking about getting an S3 but remembered that it might get replaced in august or something...? Anyone heard anything...? Couldn't find much with CES darn...


anyone..?? no??


----------



## hookbill

andyisc00l said:


> anyone..?? no??


No, nothing to replace it by August. Perhaps your mistaking the release of the Comcast TiVo software with this.


----------



## kucharsk

Fofer said:


> To each his own, but I think the S3 menu speed _is_ a serious issue. Perhaps I wouldn't go so far as to classify it as a "bug," but its certainly a UI/code optimization thing.


This is my first TiVo ever, and frankly I just don't notice any slowness at all. Granted, I've nothing to compare it to, but it certainly doesn't bother me.


----------



## briankasper

I've been reading both this thread and the "8.1 bug fix list" thread, and so far 8.1 sounds like a great upgrade. I've been experiencing two problems with 8.0.1c that are almost making the S3 unusable, and I'm hoping that 8.1 fixes at least one of them:

1) The "brief audio dropout followed by a burst of pixellation" problem
2) Frequent, intermittent dropouts of the digital audio output from the TiVo

I'm wondering if anyone who has received 8.1 knows if any of these bugfixes (from the other 8.1 thread) resolves either of those two specific issues:

* Unable to play mpeg2 audio - TivoJerry POSTED THAT IT IS FIXED here

* Audio dropout and pixelation problem caused by mpeg decoding issues

From what I've read, my "brief audio dropout followed by a burst of pixellation" problem is *not* fixed in 8.1, but it's possible that the digital audio output issue is.

I've got the optical digital audio output on the TiVo connected to one of the optical digital audio inputs on my Denon AVR-4802 receiver. The receiver is set to "auto" mode, so it plays the digital stream if it's available and falls back to analog audio if there's no digital stream.

Frequently, while we're watching programs with digital audio, the sound will cut in and out intermittently; when the audio drops out, the "digital audio" indicator light on the receiver turns off, and when the audio comes back, the indicator lights again. This happens with both full Dolby Digital 5.1 streams and with digital 2.0 stereo streams. Usually, the dropouts don't last long enough for the receiver to fall back to the analog audio input.

The problem occurs when we're watching either live or recorded programs, and I know the problem is not with the program because if I rewind and replay the portion of the program, the audio drops out in different places. I also know it's not the optical cable, because I swapped out the cable with a spare -- and it's not my receiver, because I moved the TiVo output to a different optical input (the 4802 lets you assign an arbitrary optical or coaxial digital audio input to a given video source).

If I change the audio output option on the TiVo from "Dolby Digital" to "Dolby Digital to PCM", the dropouts stop; this makes me suspicious that the problem is with the hardware or software the S3 uses to pass the digital audio signal out the optical port.

Does this sound similar to anything other folks are experiencing, and has anyone seen whether or not it's fixed in 8.1?

-B


----------



## aaronwt

I don't consider any of my three Series 3 boxes to be slow(although obviously from my two videos http://tivo.aaronwt.com/tivo/ 
the box with 8.1 shows the Now playing list faster than the box with 8.0). I'm coming from using three HR10-250 boxes and they don't even compare to the S3. The S3 is much better in speed and functionality.


----------



## davew723

I saw pony and others post that there is a "big switch" date for 8.1 some time in the future. Does anyone know what day that will be or is it still up in the air based on the stability of last weeks roll out?  (Trying to be patient...but to excited to get some of my S2 features back.)


----------



## aaronwt

davew723 said:


> I saw pony and others post that there is a "big switch" date for 8.1 some time in the future. Does anyone know what day that will be or is it still up in the air based on the stability of last weeks roll out?  (Trying to be patient...but to excited to get some of my S2 features back.)


Look at the first post of this thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=340622&page=1&pp=40


----------



## ADG

Brian - Since getting the 8.1 update I have not noticed the audio dropouts I had previously experienced.


----------



## cokyq

Brian,

My S3 is connected to my Denon 5800, video via component, digital audio via optical, and analog audio via RCA cables . I have not experienced the audio dropouts and pixelation problem you mention. 

What I have experienced, very rarely, it may only have happened 3-4 times in the 2 months I have had my S2, is loosing the audio on a program when I use the rewind (not replay). Only happened on a program that had dolby digital output. Its like the receiver lost the sync and stopped decoding. Pausing the program and starting playback restored the audio.

Like I said, it has happened, but so rarely it has not been a nuisance for me.

cokyq


----------



## briankasper

cokyq said:


> Brian,
> 
> My S3 is connected to my Denon 5800, video via component, digital audio via optical, and analog audio via RCA cables . I have not experienced the audio dropouts and pixelation problem you mention.
> 
> What I have experienced, very rarely, it may only have happened 3-4 times in the 2 months I have had my S2, is loosing the audio on a program when I use the rewind (not replay). Only happened on a program that had dolby digital output. Its like the receiver lost the sync and stopped decoding. Pausing the program and starting playback restored the audio.
> 
> Like I said, it has happened, but so rarely it has not been a nuisance for me.
> 
> cokyq


This doesn't sound like my problem, cokyq -- I experience the dropouts multiple times, seemingly randomly, and it happens when I'm watching a program -- not while rewinding or fast-forwarding. I don't remember experiencing them until recently, and they're bad enough to make whatever I'm watching unwatchable.

I don't think the problem is with my 4802, as I've had it for a long time and it's always been rock-solid. The fact that I experience the dropouts using either of two optical cables and either of two optical inputs on the AVR-4802 strongly points at a problem with the S3.

-B


----------



## briankasper

ADG said:


> Brian - Since getting the 8.1 update I have not noticed the audio dropouts I had previously experienced.


Thanks, Allan. This gives me hope that all I need is 8.1.

Waiting, waiting, waiting ....

-B


----------



## mrmike

Has anyone with a "toxic channel" problem had it solved by 8.1?


----------



## Fofer

mrmike said:


> "toxic channel" problem




WTH is that?


----------



## moyekj

Fofer said:


> WTH is that?


 It's a channel that causes the S3 to reboot sporadically when tuning to it. The Los Angeles OTA NBC HD transmission was such a beast, but that issue was solved for me with 8.01c version and I haven't encountered another toxic channel since.


----------



## mrmike

moyekj said:


> It's a channel that causes the S3 to reboot sporadically when tuning to it. The Los Angeles OTA NBC HD transmission was such a beast, but that issue was solved for me with 8.01c version and I haven't encountered another toxic channel since.


Sadly, 8.0.1c didn't fix mine. Both the OTA and cable versions cause it (which causes me to think it's a PSIP or stream formatting issue that's part of the signal chain at point of origin). I'm hoping that 8.1 will fix it for me so I can put my LG DVR into third tuner backup mode and not use it very often since it only has 12 hours of storage and gets wonky when I get more than 9 hours on it (gets too slow to power up and misses recordings).


----------



## ChrisMc73

How do I get 8.1? I've read this thread since it first came out and I'm still on 8.01c...no updates at all...?


----------



## cokyq

8.1 started streaming to some users this week, but, from reading this post, it appears the flood gates are expected to open this week. I am also patiently waiting for the update. Hopefully the rest of us will not have to wait much longer!


----------



## hookbill

Just a reminder, I don't know if "Presidents Day" will have anything to do with the release of 8.1. I checked mine first thing this morning and no update yet.

You know it's funny. The reality of it is that I really don't need most of what this update is offering and probably will play with some things once or twice. But just the fact that I know it's out there makes me want it.

They probably noticed how I tried to force calls like 5 times on the first day that TiVoPony announced the update and moved me to the back of the pack.


----------



## SCSIRAID

hookbill said:


> Just a reminder, I don't know if "Presidents Day" will have anything to do with the release of 8.1. I checked mine first thing this morning and no update yet.
> 
> You know it's funny. The reality of it is that I really don't need most of what this update is offering and probably will play with some things once or twice. But just the fact that I know it's out there makes me want it.
> 
> They probably noticed how I tried to force calls like 5 times on the first day that TiVoPony announced the update and moved me to the back of the pack.


Im really looking forward to having the 'recenty deleted' folder as its a nice indicator of how full the box is. Of course, Im hoping my one issue is fixed. We will see.....

Ive been a 'good boy' and only forced about 1 connection per day to see if it will download. Hopefully im not on Pony's 'list'....  I want code... not coal...


----------



## TydalForce

hookbill said:


> They probably noticed how I tried to force calls like 5 times on the first day that TiVoPony announced the update and moved me to the back of the pack.


Just the first day? Try every day... even when I'm not home (i <3 slingbox)


----------



## dig_duggler

If TivoPony is still monitoring:
Any further info on when is the switch being thrown?


----------



## JimPa

If there weren't any bugs that need to be fixed, I'd expect the update to happen (drum roll please) today.


----------



## Mike Farrington

JimPa said:


> If there weren't any bugs that need to be fixed, I'd expect the update to happen (drum roll please) today.


By now the code would most certainly be locked down for release. The reason for the staggering of the release is so they don't overwhelm customer support since there are always some machines that will choke on the update (usually due to a bad hard drive).


----------



## ewilts

hookbill said:


> You know it's funny. The reality of it is that I really don't need most of what this update is offering and probably will play with some things once or twice. But just the fact that I know it's out there makes me want it.


Ditto. And for some strange that I can't explain, it's driving me batty that I can't have it. Sigh.... Hopefully the big switch gets flipped soon.

.../Ed


----------



## aaronwt

It should be this week going by the first post. I'd like to try out the TiVocast features.


----------



## ewilts

TiVoPony said:


> It's time to throw the switch.
> 
> Well, the little switch to start.
> 
> The Winter 2006 Service Update for the Series3 platform started going out to boxes this morning.
> 
> This first week of the process is our typical "let's give it to some of the people and see if everything is smooth, then we can throw the really big switch". So if you don't have it this week...you'll likely have it soon thereafter.


So has the "really big switch" been thrown? Are you still on track for this week?

Thanks,
.../Ed


----------



## randywalters

Wow, so much impatience! We'll get it when we get it :up:


----------



## MrWizzu

It cant come soon enough for me, since my Tivo went on a reboot-fest for over 50 times on the weekend.


----------



## Animgif

randywalters said:


> Wow, so much impatience! We'll get it when we get it :up:


I'm impatient by nature  I just want the 'Recently Deleted' folder.


----------



## TydalForce

Animgif said:


> I'm impatient by nature  I just want the 'Recently Deleted' folder.


That makes two of us ;-} There's a software update? Gimmie Gimmie!


----------



## Animgif

TydalForce said:


> That makes two of us ;-} There's a software update? Gimmie Gimmie!


Exactly. However, I fear that my incessant connection-forcing is going to have put me on Pony's 'list'  Is it an excuse that I do it out of devotion? I blame it on the addiction


----------



## Mike Farrington

I want the recently deleted folder because my wife deleted something by accident. I want the update so I can hopefully recover this recording. I've turned off suggestions just to be safe. I hope it's still there when I get the update.


----------



## TydalForce

Animgif said:


> Exactly. However, I fear that my incessant connection-forcing is going to have put me on Pony's 'list'  Is it an excuse that I do it out of devotion? I blame it on the addiction


Devotion, Addiction, Obsession, Techno-Lust, call it what you will

I really REALLY hope Pony was kidding about that list ;-} At the rate I'm going, I'd be at the bottom....


----------



## monkeydust

Animgif said:


> Exactly. However, I fear that my incessant connection-forcing is going to have put me on Pony's 'list'  Is it an excuse that I do it out of devotion? I blame it on the addiction


I keep my connection forcing update check to two times a day.


----------



## CharlesH

TydalForce said:


> That makes two of us ;-} There's a software update? Gimmie Gimmie!


I think we are assuming that today is not a TiVo company holiday. Many companies have today off (President's Day).


----------



## TydalForce

CharlesH said:


> I think we are assuming that today is not a TiVo company holiday. Many companies have today off (and many do not).


It's true... I have off today *hooray* 
I'd expect that TiVo's customer service and sales departments are open, but some of their executives and staff (and the folks who push out software) aren't.

The "Big Switch" would be tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## Animgif

TydalForce said:


> I really REALLY hope Pony was kidding about that list ;-} At the rate I'm going, I'd be at the bottom....


I'm pretty sure it was  Well, at least I hope it was...  The extent of my checking is pretty bad. This morning, before I even got a diet coke (the first stop of the morning, every morning), I forced a connection...(yeah, I did it right before bed last night too).


----------



## Mike Farrington

CharlesH said:


> I think we are assuming that today is not a TiVo company holiday. Many companies have today off (and others do not).


I think an overwhelmingly vast majority of companies remain open on Flag Day. It's just a government holiday.


----------



## billin

aaronwt said:


> I don't consider any of my three Series 3 boxes to be slow(although obviously from my two videos the box with 8.1 shows the Now playing list faster than the box with 8.0). I'm coming from using three HR10-250 boxes and they don't even compare to the S3. The S3 is much better in speed and functionality.


I don't know if the original poster is having the same problem as me, but... When I first plugged in my TiVo Series 3, the menu animation (where it slides out onto the screen) was jerky and the onscreen TV guide had a very slight flicker when switching between channels. It was very, very disconcerting, particularly given that I was switching from a TiVo Series 1 whose menu animation was nice and smooth. I wondered if I had gotten a bum unit and if I should return it. Fortunately, due to my laziness, I did not return it and, after something like a few days, the jerkiness went away entirely. I think that, when the Series 3 is first hooked up, there must be a lot of processing happening in the background which causes the slow performance.

So, if your TiVo S3 is relatively new, hang in there for a few days and let it get all its initial background processing done before judging whether or not it's slow...


----------



## TydalForce

Animgif said:


> I'm pretty sure it was  Well, at least I hope it was...  The extent of my checking is pretty bad. This morning, before I even got a diet coke (the first stop of the morning, every morning), I forced a connection...(yeah, I did it right before bed last night too).


In the morning, when I get home from work, before bed, *from* work via Slingbox...

I'm addicted. I swear, I'll be entirely too excited when I see "Pending Restart" :b~


----------



## CharlesH

Mike Farrington said:


> I think an overwhelmingly vast majority of companies remain open on Flag Day. It's just a government holiday.


What's Flag Day?  At least here in California, it's called President's Day, and many private companies honor it.


----------



## btwyx

CharlesH said:


> What's Flag Day?  At least here in California, it's called President's Day, and many private companies honor it.


Mine doesn't. I won't complain (too hard) though we get a reasonable number of other days off.


----------



## Mike Farrington

CharlesH said:


> What's Flag Day?  At least here in California, it's called President's Day, and many private companies honor it.


Oops. I meant to say President's Day. Here's a link for Flag Day in case you're interested.


----------



## gwsat

As noted in an earlier post, I got my upgrade to 8.1 last week. I have had my S3 for only a month, so I cant explain why I was one of the anointed who got 8.1 early. I did sign up as a beta tester, but that doesnt include testing the 8.1 software. Maybe TiVo figured I needed to have 8.1 before I started to work on the stuff they did want me to do. Who knows? Anyway, I'm grateful.


----------



## kucharsk

As I mentioned, some of us are impatient merely because we want the hardware we bought (wireless adapter) to be usable as anything more than a paperweight (WPA network.)

Tick tock...


----------



## CharlesH

gwsat said:


> As noted in an earlier post, I got my upgrade to 8.1 last week. I have had my S3 for only a month, so I cant explain why I was one of the anointed who got 8.1 early.


According to the posters from TiVo, a certain number of targets for early release are simply chosen at random, so there may not actually _be_ any particular reason you were chosen. They are trying to see if there are any problems with the release, so they want to sample _all_ users, not just the technologically sophisticated ones.


----------



## ewilts

gwsat said:


> As noted in an earlier post, I got my upgrade to 8.1 last week. I have had my S3 for only a month, so I cant explain why I was one of the anointed who got 8.1 early.


I personally wouldn't be surprised if TiVo did something as basic as a check on the last digit of the serial number. If it's "1", you get the upgrade, if not, you wait. That gets you roughly 10% of the users scattered throughout your community. So those of you/us who are checking multiple times per day will accomplish nothing - if the serial number didn't pass the check the first time you checked, it's not going to pass today. However, it would have been nice if TiVo would have said so but perhaps they're just trying to teach us a lesson on forcing updates  .

.../Ed


----------



## gwsat

CharlesH said:


> According to the posters from TiVo, a certain number of targets for early release are simply chosen at random, so there may not actually _be_ any particular reason you were chosen. They are trying to see if there are any problems with the release, so they want to sample _all_ users, not just the technologically sophisticated ones.


I failed to mention in my earlier post another reason why my being accepted as a beta tester might have been the reason why I got the 8.1 software last week. TiVo coded my S3 with an authorization that allows me access to a special server. That authorization came through as part of the same download that gave my version 8.1. Still, it could have been something as arbitrary as my service number. I would like to think that it had to do with my awesome IT skills, but I would not bet the house on that proposition.


----------



## cwoody222

You're not supposed to tell people you're a beta tester - it's a violation of the NDA


----------



## Mike Farrington

gwsat said:


> I failed to mention in my earlier post another reason why my being accepted as a beta tester might have been the reason why I got the 8.1 software last week. TiVo coded my S3 with an authorization that allows me access to a special server. That authorization came through as part of the same download that gave my version 8.1. Still, it could have been something as arbitrary as my service number. I would like to think that it had to do with my awesome IT skills, but I would not bet the house on that proposition.


Apparently your reading skills must not be as awesome as your IT skills... because right now I'm pretty sure you're violating your non-disclosure agreement.


----------



## BoyScout

gwsat said:


> I failed to mention in my earlier post another reason why my being accepted as a beta tester might have been the reason why I got the 8.1 software last week. TiVo coded my S3 with an authorization that allows me access to a special server. That authorization came through as part of the same download that gave my version 8.1. Still, it could have been something as arbitrary as my service number. I would like to think that it had to do with my awesome IT skills, but I would not bet the house on that proposition.


I would guess that you should be using a past tense of being a beta tester by now.


----------



## BoyScout

hookbill said:


> They probably noticed how I tried to force calls like 5 times on the first day that TiVoPony announced the update and moved me to the back of the pack.


Only 5? I thought the magic number was up to 13!


----------



## Fofer

Sheesh, three folks simultaneously smacking gwsat down for his mention of the beta club. 

Unclench, people...


----------



## Ivomir

I noticed another small change in 8.1 regarding CC.

With 8.0.1 when toggling CC by going to the CC menu and going back it was behaving differently for live TV and a recording. With live TV show after changing the option the Tivo goes back to live TV. With a recording it goes back to the "now playing" screen (and I have to press play once or twice to resume playback).

With 8.1 this is more consistent. After toggling CC it goes back to the current recording.

There is still looong way to go towards a usable CC functionality, but this is a step in the right direction  Thanks Tivo.

Ivo


----------



## TedEstes

Fofer said:


> Gotcha, thanks for the reply.
> 
> Then for others reading, will you please take a look at these two videos, and tell us which your S3 display of "Now Playing" menu more closely resembles? Along with whether you're on 8.0.x or 8.1.x.
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/joshr/tc/tivoseries3sluggish.MP4
> http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/series3_nowplaying.mpg


I wonder what else these boxes were doing at the time of the experiments and video recording. For example, was the first one recording one/two HD shows? I'd expect that to put some load on the system that might result in sluggishness.

My S3 looks more like the second, zippy one. I haven't checked for an 8.1 update, but mine has been like that since day one.

--Ted


----------



## TiivoDog

It appears the switch has been flicked


----------



## jwbacher

Installing the patch right now. Happy Presidents Day to me!


----------



## TydalForce

sweet! looks like mine might be coming through too (c:

or else its another fake update like the one i had last week... :b

oh well, got to watch Battlestar Galacitca first!


----------



## hiker

Yep! Get it while it's hot.


----------



## cherry ghost

Just got it on a unit activated 3 days ago. I need to restart now because the cable cards are coming in 30 minutes.


----------



## Animgif

Woo hoo! Downloading now =) Praise be to Pony, all hail his switch-flicking ability (and bonus points for doing it on a holiday  )


----------



## TiivoDog

I am currently in restart mode of my first Series3 with the other 2 shortly behind!! Finally, now if I can only keep myself together until MRV gets here!!!


----------



## jwbacher

I love how it tells me:
Preparing the service update.
This may take up to an hour, possibly longer. 

They need to create a page that tells you the percentage complete and how much time is left. Since they are not going to work on TiVoToGo or activating the external HD, maybe they can add this?


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

Has anyone with a TSN starting with 648 gotten 8.1? TiVo's site states that 8.0.1 is the latest software version for those units.


----------



## justinw

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Has anyone with a TSN starting with 648 gotten 8.1? TiVo's site states that 8.0.1 is the latest software version for those units.


All the Series 3 boxes have TSNs starting with 648.


----------



## cokyq

I have forced updates several times today and... NADA! NOTHING!

Still waiting...


----------



## rocull

I just got the update, too, and going through the restart.


----------



## MichaelK

TedEstes said:


> I wonder what else these boxes were doing at the time of the experiments and video recording. For example, was the first one recording one/two HD shows? I'd expect that to put some load on the system that might result in sluggishness.
> 
> My S3 looks more like the second, zippy one. I haven't checked for an 8.1 update, but mine has been like that since day one.
> 
> --Ted


that's a very good point.

when recording 2 HD shows it is slower then recording only SD shows.

WIth the HR10 at least one way to speed it up was to tuner to 2 channels that you couldn't get so it was recording nothing.

Also, although strange, I honestly think somehow that making specific recordings of HD channels slows down more then say being on the buffer for 2 HD channels. It makes no sense to me but it sure seems to be the case.


----------



## SCSIRAID

hiker said:


> Yep! Get it while it's hot.


Bummer... no joy for me... looks like im on Pony's 'bad doggie' list.....


----------



## TiivoDog

I was looking forward to immediately taking advantage of the TivoCast functionality, however that feature's wings have been clipped..... Hopefully, they get that working in relatively short order.


----------



## hookbill

I got it! It's restarting right now!  I forced a call, second time today. So much for my patience.


----------



## Fofer

jwbacher said:


> I love how it tells me:
> Preparing the service update.
> This may take up to an hour, possibly longer.
> 
> They need to create a page that tells you the percentage complete and how much time is left. Since they are not going to work on TiVoToGo or activating the external HD, maybe they can add this?


Dude, you're getting the update and this is what you complain about? LOL


----------



## hookbill

Fofer said:


> Dude, you're getting the update and this is what you complain about? LOL


Yep I just got that message too. I'm not complaining because I got it, I got it.

I feel like a kid at Christmas...and I know really this is no big deal but we've talked about it so darn long!


----------



## Fofer

I got mine too... rebooting now.

Before I did so, I tuned both tuners to an analog (non HD) channel... then took a video of me moving up and down the Now Playing list, going into folders and what not. Recorded for about 2 minutes, on 8.01, just to have a baseline for comparison for 8.1.

Should be interesting.


----------



## wackymann

Mine's also installing as we speak!


----------



## jfh3

jwbacher said:


> I love how it tells me:
> Preparing the service update.
> This may take up to an hour, possibly longer.
> 
> They need to create a page that tells you the percentage complete and how much time is left. Since they are not going to work on TiVoToGo or activating the external HD, maybe they can add this?


There are about 1000 things that should be higher on the priority list.

Most people get updates installed a 2:00 am and never even see that screen.


----------



## hookbill

jfh3 said:


> There are about 1000 things that should be higher on the priority list.
> 
> Most people get updates installed a 2:00 am and never even see that screen.


The whole thing from phone call to install took about a half an hour. What's the big deal?


----------



## Animgif

My menus are still slow, if anyone cares. We'll see if it's just post-update processing. OTOH, YAY! I have a 'Recently Deleted' folder and much prefer the new HD folder icon.


----------



## Fofer

Okay folks, two observations:

#1) After the download, even though it says "Preparing the service update. This may take up to an hour, possibly longer," mine didn't take anywhere near an hour. More like 10-12 minutes.

#2) As I mentioned above, right before the reboot I took time to record myself (with my digital camera) navigating the Now Playing list for two minutes. Went into folders, scrolled up and down and what not. Really paid close attention to the on-screen display and overall responsiveness. I can now report with certainty that navigating through the Now Playing list now in 8.1 (still tuned to two analog channels) is *much, much, much faster* than it was with 8.01. At first, going into a large folder was SUPER fast -- I was amazed -- but I see after a few minutes, going into those same folders has gotten a bit slower. Still, navigating the top level is much, much, much faster; there's simply no comparison. It is DEFINITELY improved on my Series 3. Certainly usable, no longer sluggish and embarrassing like it was before. (Hopefully it doesn't get sluggish "in time.") If it stayed exactly how it is right now, I'd be content.

Oh, and I have a 750 GB drive with lots and lots and lots of recordings so far, if that matters.

:up: Good job, TiVo. Keep it up! And flip the next switch on TiVoCast so we can give that whirl, please.


----------



## Maeglin

hookbill said:


> I feel like a kid at Christmas...and I know really this is no big deal but we've talked about it so darn long!


Indeed, same here! Now I just have to find a time between Monday evening recordings to reboot the bloody thing


----------



## Fofer

Oh, and next up, TTG and MRV (in some form or another, please.)


----------



## TydalForce

Anybody bother to check their Antenna Signal Strength both before and after?

I just got a DB2 hooked up, and tested them on Friday before I left for the weekend... 
I'm still away, but through my Slingbox connected and checked them out after the update...

For all I know, my antenna came loose and fell a little bit, but it looks like my signal strengths have dropped a little... Not a lot, but enough to be noticed. Of course, this could also be because of cloud coverage or something too...


----------



## Fofer

Animgif said:


> My menus are still slow, if anyone cares.


Really? Not my experience. The change is DRAMATIC. Much faster. I can upload videos if anyone's interested.


----------



## aaronwt

This is weird. The box that already has 8.1 is now showing "pending restart" after connecting with TiVo. The other two boxes with the older version didn't show anything after connecting with TiVo. I'm trying both of those again.


----------



## Animgif

Fofer said:


> Really? Not my experience. The change is DRAMATIC. Much faster. I can upload videos if anyone's interested.


It may just be background processing. I'm not passing judgment for a few hours.


----------



## aaronwt

Ok it's showing a different 8.1 version on the box that already had 8.1.
It used to be 8.1.1.S1-01-2-648
Now it is 8.1.1-01-2-648

I finally got one of my other boxes to show"pending restart" but the third box doesn't have the update yet after 5 tries.


----------



## aaronwt

Still no TiVoCast or Product Watch showing up yet.


----------



## hookbill

aaronwt said:


> Still no TiVoCast or Product Watch showing up yet.


TiVoPony says that has to be fixed at the web end. Maybe tomorrow?


----------



## TydalForce

aaronwt said:


> Ok it's showing a different 8.1 version on the box that already had 8.1.
> It used to be 8.1.1.S1-01-2-648
> Now it is 8.1.1-01-2-648
> 
> I finally got one of my other boxes to show"pending restart" but the third box doesn't have the update yet after 5 tries.


Hmmm... some rampant speculation if I may... 8.1.1.S1 was the first release, they found a hiccup or two (perhaps that TiVoToGo setting thing?) made some minor tweaks, and now pushing out -01?

Ah, that's why we have the little switch (c:


----------



## Fofer

Animgif said:


> It may just be background processing. I'm not passing judgment for a few hours.


You'd think that directly after an OS update/reboot we'd have the same "background processing?"


----------



## jwbacher

The whole "changing the starting screen" I posted about was a bit of a joke. I had nothing else to look at while I was updating the system. 

Geez...you guys are tough...sarcasm, ever heard of it?


----------



## BoyScout

hookbill said:


> I got it! It's restarting right now!  I forced a call, second time today. So much for my patience.


DAMMIT! I'll have to wait until I get home to check. I wonder if I schedule a recording if it will send the update with it?


----------



## SafariKC

BoyScout said:


> DAMMIT! I'll have to wait until I get home to check. I wonder if I schedule a recording if it will send the update with it?


Hahah... Time to get a SlingBox? 

KC


----------



## monkeydust

Either mine is installing the update now after a forced connection or my Tivo died on me. Hopefully it's the former.

It flashed a gray screen up for like a second with some text on it that I didn't have time to read and then it just went black. LED's are out but the buttons on the right are illuminated. Been this way for 10 minutes.


----------



## TiVoJerry

TydalForce said:


> Hmmm... some rampant speculation if I may... 8.1.1.S1 was the first release, they found a hiccup or two (perhaps that TiVoToGo setting thing?) made some minor tweaks, and now pushing out -01?
> 
> Ah, that's why we have the little switch (c:


Nope, it's normal for us to have a different software version during the ramp phase.

FYI - today's push has already been auth'd, so if you've made your connection this afternoon and don't have it, there's no need to keep forcing connections. BTW, if a large enough group of people were to continue forcing connections manually on a regular basis, it could actually slow down the next release process because of the extra projected bandwidth use.


----------



## chrishicks

so how long does the download usually take? mine's been going for around 20min. or so already.


----------



## Fofer

jwbacher said:


> The whole "changing the starting screen" I posted about was a bit of a joke. I had nothing else to look at while I was updating the system.
> 
> Geez...you guys are tough...sarcasm, ever heard of it?


On these forums you never know... you should see some of the bizarre complaints!

Stark "text on a web page" doesn't always communicate the subtle winks and smirks that indicate sarcasm in real life.

Next time a smilie might help get your "joke" across better...


----------



## BoyScout

TiVoJerry said:


> FYI - today's push has already been auth'd, so if you've made your connection this afternoon and don't have it, there's no need to keep forcing connections. BTW, if a large enough group of people were to continue forcing connections manually on a regular basis, it could actually slow down the next release process because of the extra projected bandwidth use.


Is there a projected finish date for this update? I guess I was ASSuming it would be done in two pushes.


----------



## Carsten

How do I use the TivoCast? Didnt find any menu or anything. I know I got the update bc I have Recently Deleted


----------



## cokyq

That's great, sounds like the gates are opened. I am forcing connects one after the other, but guess Santa has left me for the end of his journey.

Ho Ho Ho... still waiting with a smile!


----------



## monkeydust

monkeydust said:


> Either mine is installing the update now after a forced connection or my Tivo died on me. Hopefully it's the former.
> 
> It flashed a gray screen up for like a second with some text on it that I didn't have time to read and then it just went black. LED's are out but the buttons on the right are illuminated. Been this way for 10 minutes.


Weird. Hit the Tivo button and the picture was there again. Saw my status as Pending Restart so doing that now.


----------



## greg_burns

Carsten said:


> How do I use the TivoCast? Didnt find any menu or anything. I know I got the update bc I have Recently Deleted


TivoCast's switch has not been thrown yet according to Pony.

(Just got 8.1 myself, rebooting now.)

Jerry is making me feel guilty thinking about forcing a connection on my other S3.


----------



## TiVoJerry

BoyScout said:


> Is there a projected finish date for this update? I guess I was ASSuming it would be done in two pushes.


We all know what happens when you assume.   We don't like to give firm dates for when a release will finish because it's always _possible_ that we'd need to stop it, or slow it down, for a variety of reasons. Anytime we've had to do that, we've had our feet held to the fire by those who didn't receive the software by the projected date.

Keep in mind that we are also rolling out new software to broadband-enabled Series2 boxes at the same time. Even then, this will be our fastest rollout to date and your S3 will see its update *very * soon (as opposed to a regular "soon")  .


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

TiVoJerry said:


> Even then, this will be our fastest rollout to date and your S3 will see its update *very * soon (as opposed to a regular "soon")  .


Of course, this is just an estimate!!


----------



## chrishicks

chrishicks said:


> so how long does the download usually take? mine's been going for around 20min. or so already.


another question, should the little phone active light still be on with this d/l? nibe hasn't been on for quite awhile(it shut off right as the d/l started) but the phone is still active and the tivo status is still showing "downloading".


----------



## aaronwt

Onmy box that originally had 8.1, after it rebooted with the updated version of 8.1 I it now doesn't see my PC running TiVo server. The other box that just updated is fine and the box still on 8.01c is also fine. the both see my pictures and music but the first box doesn't see anything. Is there a way to force it to see it? The TiVo Server lists it as one of the boxes.


----------



## monkeydust

Update went fine. I was hoping for Skull & Bones HD though.


----------



## Adam1115

TiVoPony said:


> So what is included? Lots of good stuff:
> 
> * TiVoCast - Broadband video delivered directly to your tv set. No PC required.
> 
> * Product Watch - Have the TiVo service find and deliver relevant product video clips straight to your Now Playing List.





TiVoPony said:


> Product Watch and TiVoCast aren't available just yet for Series3. Very very soon...quite likely next week. Sorry about that.
> 
> More details as they become available.
> 
> Pony


----------



## aaronwt

aaronwt said:


> Onmy box that originally had 8.1, after it rebooted with the updated version of 8.1 I it now doesn't see my PC running TiVo server. The other box that just updated is fine and the box still on 8.01c is also fine. the both see my pictures and music but the first box doesn't see anything. Is there a way to force it to see it? The TiVo Server lists it as one of the boxes.


I rebooted the S3 the pictures and music came back up.


----------



## demon

Upon arriving home tonight, my TiVo informed me that it was pending a restart. I had it go ahead and reboot, and lo and behold, I'm now running 8.1.1-01-2-648. Video playback seems to be without the pause-and-macroblock issues which I was occasionally seeing before - thus far anyway. I'll give it a day or two and see what happens. However, it's good to see that update - thanks TiVo staff for all your hard work.


----------



## TydalForce

demon said:


> thanks TiVo staff for all your hard work.


+1

TiVo folks, you guys rock ;-} Thanks for putting up with all the b|tching on this forum and cranking out the releases


----------



## Razorbak

I haven't received the update yet. Still no joy in Mudville.


----------



## Fofer

Adam1115 said:


>


Think of it this way: the actual capability is now on 8.1 S3's for those features, but now TiVo needs to flip the switch on their servers so we can "see" the TiVoCast and ProductWatch "stuff."


----------



## Animgif

Fofer said:


> You'd think that directly after an OS update/reboot we'd have the same "background processing?"


I don't know...updating databases or something. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now. I'm not one to jump to immediate conclusions.


----------



## TydalForce

Animgif said:


> I don't know...updating databases or something. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now. I'm not one to jump to immediate conclusions.


Give it a lil time, and then force another reboot. Maybe it's just cranky :b


----------



## chrishicks

ok, I think something is wrong here. in 15min. it will have been 2hrs. downloading(connection started at 6:41pm). can someone help me out here?


----------



## TydalForce

hummm might have hiccuped... dialup or broadband?
not sure how big this download is.... you might want to try interrupting it and/or restarting ... it'll continue where it left off the next time it connects


----------



## cherry ghost

chrishicks said:


> ok, I think something is wrong here. in 15min. it will have been 2hrs. downloading(connection started at 6:41pm). can someone help me out here?


that might be about right for dial-up


----------



## Mike Farrington

chrishicks said:


> ok, I think something is wrong here. in 15min. it will have been 2hrs. downloading(connection started at 6:41pm). can someone help me out here?


It's hard to tell at what speed your modem connected. If the line was noisy or something, you could be connected at a horrible 14.4Kbps.

My program guide downloads take about 20 minutes sometimes. My download for 8.0.1c took quite a while. I can't wait for 8.1 so I can finally use my wireless adapter without downgrading my home network's security.

I live in the boonies and am not really worried about someone cracking a home WEP network. But I'll be damned if I'm going to reenter the encryption key on a dozen PCs and devices just because of the S3.


----------



## ah30k

Last thing I want going into the evening prime-time is a software update. I'll let the overnight shift worry about that.


----------



## tase2

Update done-Approx 30 minutes.


----------



## ewilts

monkeydust said:


> Update went fine. I was hoping for Skull & Bones HD though.


But did you notice that Nikon HD was gone? Rather than have it there but not working, the option is gone completely. I don't know if I should feel badly or not since I've never been able to see anything more than the menu option so I don't know what I'm missing.

.../Ed


----------



## ewilts

Mike Farrington said:


> My program guide downloads take about 20 minutes sometimes. My download for 8.0.1c took quite a while. I can't wait for 8.1 so I can finally use my wireless adapter without downgrading my home network's security.
> 
> I live in the boonies and am not really worried about someone cracking a home WEP network. But I'll be damned if I'm going to reenter the encryption key on a dozen PCs and devices just because of the S3.


Powerline Etherne - it works great! My 8.1 download only took a few minutes - the loading part took a long time but that download was fast. A guide download only takes a couple of minutes (although I haven't timed and don't watch it all that often).

The best wireless security is no wireless.

.../Ed


----------



## suzook

well, i finaly got the update. i forced a call, and it is currently rebooting.


----------



## chrishicks

geez, 2hrs. to d/l. that seems like a long time but maybe not. now I have to sit here and wait until after CSI: Miami to reboot.

I'll be glad when this is done so I can finally use my wireless adapter since its been hooked up since the day after I bought the S3(I use WPA).


----------



## Mike Farrington

It took me about 2 hours to download too. I want to reboot, but I've got shows scheduled through midnight. Damn.

In the meantime, I forced a call on my S2 and it download 8.01a in the blink of an eye (of course, its connected via a wireless adapter). Bad news for S2 owners: They didn't bother fixing the subfolder bug.


----------



## dnorth12

got it and initially guide seemed slow, but has sped up over time.
can't testify to now playing list speed as I record watch and delete, so i don't keep more than about 8 programs in there at any time.

got wpa working with the S2 mixed mode wpa/aes . couldn't get it to work with g only and tkid. and now on to the S3 settings.

question for those who know, as i am not a security guru, what are the best settings that can be used with the S2/S3 tivo. wpa2/personal or wpa etc...? or does it even matter as long as it is wpa?

i know that the best is wired, but I am wireless via a linsys access point for the TiVo's


----------



## Fofer

Mike Farrington said:


> In the meantime, I forced a call on my S2 and it download 8.01a in the blink of an eye (of course, its connected via a wireless adapter). Bad news for S2 owners: They didn't bother fixing the subfolder bug.


What exactly is the subfolder bug?


----------



## hookbill

TydalForce said:


> +1
> 
> TiVo folks, you guys rock ;-} Thanks for putting up with all the b|tching on this forum and cranking out the releases


Heh Heh...that will be short lived. I give it a day or so before we got people comeing around complaing about 8.1 doesn't do this, or 8.1 causes that.

Of course I'm a Kool Aid drinker so I'm just thrilled that it's here

An thank you TiVoPony and TiVoJerry for letting us know your still with us.


----------



## ChrisMc73

How do you "force a call" or how do I get the update? I keep checking my version and its been on 8.01 since I first read this thread...I've rebooted the machine 2 to 3 times a week.

I'm having major issues, with some of the channels and my cable cards. I didn't get Hero's recorded tonight because the cable card didn't tune in 704 (NBC HD), it was a black screen when I went to watch it a few minutes after it started, and it eventually recorded nothing...as it couldn't tune the channel.


----------



## Mike Farrington

Fofer said:


> What exactly is the subfolder bug?


If a subfolder has more than one page of programs on it, then if you go into a program's details and come back out to the program list, you are kicked back to the first page.


----------



## hookbill

ChrisMc73 said:


> How do you "force a call" or how do I get the update? I keep checking my version and its been on 8.01 since I first read this thread...I've rebooted the machine 2 to 3 times a week.


Don't tell anyone I told you. Go to Tivo Central, Messages & Settings, Settings, Phone Set up and you'll see where you can have it call in now.


----------



## ScratchFury

Bleh... I want the update. I want to be able to stick my cable cards back in. I missed seeing Heroes in HD :-(


----------



## ChrisMc73

hookbill said:


> Don't tell anyone I told you. Go to Tivo Central, Messages & Settings, Settings, Phone Set up and you'll see where you can have it call in now.


What if I don't use the Phone Line? I'm wireless...


----------



## chrishicks

reboot time!!! hope everything goes ok.

EDIT: so far so good. everything is back and running. I just noticed that I have 74 items in my recently deleted folder.


----------



## hookbill

ChrisMc73 said:


> What if I don't use the Phone Line? I'm wireless...


It's in the same area. Just go there and look.


----------



## phox_mulder

"Connect to DVR service" is how it's labeled for both broadband and phone, IIRC.


phox


----------



## nhaigh

Just tried another forced connection - still no update!!!!!


----------



## ChrisMc73

hookbill said:


> It's in the same area. Just go there and look.


I might have stumbled upon something it downloaded something and installed it and now is pending a restart, which I'm waiting on the honey to finish her show before I reboot...


----------



## tripmaster

It's lonely here waiting by the S3, hoping that your 8.1 will call.


----------



## cokyq

After watching my Monday shows, forced a connection but no luck.... still patiently waiting. Anyone in the DFW area got it already?


----------



## ReidWings

ScratchFury said:


> Bleh... I want the update. I want to be able to stick my cable cards back in. I missed seeing Heroes in HD :-(


No QAM in your area? Before I had my CC's installed, I just did manual recordings for that kinda stuff.


----------



## jaredmwright

Forced a call this evening around 8:15pm and got the 8.1 update! Thank you TiVo! 
The installation took about 20 minutes start to finish (Back watching live TV). 

Good luck to everyone still waiting to receive their update! Now, off to watch Heroes on HD!


----------



## aaronwt

ewilts said:


> But did you notice that Nikon HD was gone? Rather than have it there but not working, the option is gone completely. I don't know if I should feel badly or not since I've never been able to see anything more than the menu option so I don't know what I'm missing.
> 
> .../Ed


That was gone on mine as well as my photo and music folder from my PC. I rebooted the S3 again and Nikon and my folders came back. This only happened on my S3 that had the temporary 8.1 from last week. My other S3 that got the update this evening didn't lose the Nikon or PC folders.


----------



## ChrisMc73

I got mine! But it didn't fix my issue, now Cable Card 2 can't get any of the HD stations...from Cox.


----------



## drewpydog

No love on the switch-flipping here, even after forced connect.


----------



## mbernste

hookbill said:


> They probably noticed how I tried to force calls like 5 times on the first day that TiVoPony announced the update and moved me to the back of the pack.


Heh, I haven't gotten it yet either, but I know why I haven't gotten it yet.


----------



## Fofer

mbernste said:


> Heh, I haven't gotten it yet either, but I know why I haven't gotten it yet.


Why not, pray tell?


----------



## cwoody222

Got mine in the wee hours of Tuesday morning. Installing now.


----------



## gwsat

cwoody222 said:


> You're not supposed to tell people you're a beta tester - it's a violation of the NDA


Oops! Thanks, it won't happen again.


----------



## gwsat

Fofer said:


> Sheesh, three folks simultaneously smacking gwsat down for his mention of the beta club.
> 
> Unclench, people...


Thanks, but I had it coming. Live and learn, I guess.


----------



## Brad Smith

I got the update last night and unfortunately have to report that the audio dropout issue followed by pixelation is  while improved  definitely not fixed. It happens just a little bit less than it did before, the audio dropout is shorter, and the pixelation is quicker and not as widespread on the screen. Unfortunately it definitely still happens.


----------



## kucharsk

Got the update, but Yahoo! login doesn't work.

I enter my Yahoo! ID and password, and TiVo tells me it's an invalid ID or password.

Funny, I've logged out and back in a half dozen times to verify on my computer with no issues.


----------



## Marduk

Adam1115 said:


> I hate to break it to you, but it's VERY unlikely that the Series3 will ever be able to transfer HD recordings to your Series2 boxes..


What about non HD recordings? I have some shows that I record on Standard def, that I wouldn't mind seeing on another set in my house.

Also, am I being naive here by saying I never expected HD quality on a transfer from my S3 to my S2 boxes? Just the ability to move it from one set to the other, was all that I asked. Not trying to be a stickler, but, one of the true qualities of Tivo that made me bought this, was the ability to network my box and transfer media from one box to another. For the $$$ you paid for this, it should have been a no brainer for them.


----------



## fritolayguy

No update yet for my S3. Relly looking forward to the fixes mentioned, as well as the "recently Deleted" folder....I am the one that is usually quick with my delete trigger...


----------



## JimPa

Didn't fix my cable channel tuning for locals problem. Can't figure out if its a Tivo problem or a cable company problem. The Motorola 6412, which I still have, tunes them correctly.


----------



## ah30k

I called in twice last night around midnight and did not get any update. It was scheduled for another call around 2:15 on its own but I didn't get a chance to check this morning.


----------



## cwoody222

cwoody222 said:


> No update for me yet.
> 
> I also just discovered that my reboot I experienced on Monday was NOT from a power-failure which was guess. Weird. Hope it's not a sign of problems down the road. Up to now my TiVo has worked perfectly!


Turns out my reboot last Monday was due to a REALLY bad signal coming in on my OTA NBC-HD station which hosed my recordings of Heroes and Studio 60.

(but the reboot hosed my recording of 24)

But anyway, it was NOT a random reboot / failing harddrive or anything serious like that.


----------



## Animgif

cwoody222 said:


> Turns out my reboot last Monday was due to a REALLY bad signal coming in on my OTA NBC-HD station which hosed my recordings of Heroes and Studio 60.
> 
> (but the reboot hosed my recording of 24)
> 
> But anyway, it was NOT a random reboot / failing harddrive or anything serious like that.


That sucks...I'm sorry


----------



## Maeglin

Marduk said:


> What about non HD recordings? I have some shows that I record on Standard def, that I wouldn't mind seeing on another set in my house.


That topic accounts for probably 20% of the posts in this forum.

It's coming, at least to a degree. The only thing that CableLabs cares about protecting is content that was encrypted coming down the line, and how that gets worked into transfers depends on a few factors (including whether or not TiVo can get their encryption scheme approved as a digital output by CL as it was by the FCC), but at the very least anything unencrypted should be fair game. There will hopefully be something available before year's end (or the following spring, at this rate).

Assuming people would read it (that's a big one, I know), shouldn't this go into a FAQ or something?


----------



## Sevenfeet

8.1 update came in for me yesterday. My other S3 is still in the box waiting to be installed.

The only glitch was that the Tivo could no longer access the iPhoto and iTunes libraries on my Mac. A reboot of the Mac fixes that. But as expected, the S3 still cannot understand AAC files (any variety), which means the lion's share of my iTunes library, much of it Apple Lossless, is not available to the S3. It looks like an Apple TV will be in my future.


----------



## SugarBowl

Sevenfeet said:


> 8.1 update came in for me yesterday. My other S3 is still in the box waiting to be installed.
> 
> The only glitch was that the Tivo could no longer access the iPhoto and iTunes libraries on my Mac. A reboot of the Mac fixes that. But as expected, the S3 still cannot understand AAC files (any variety), which means the lion's share of my iTunes library, much of it Apple Lossless, is not available to the S3. It looks like an Apple TV will be in my future.


You're playing right into Apple's hands!


----------



## aringhof

all three of my Tivos received the update with no issues. I think the update is overrated... the only real difference i see if the delete wastebasket... big deal... come on Tivo, we want CONTENT!! its all about the CONTENT! lets start an XM Radio subscription on there (like Directv did)... 


my set up

Tivo Series3 (living room)
52" Sony XBR3

Tivo Series3 (theater room)
Runco-1100
106" Stewart screen

Tivo Series2 (bedroom)
42" Pioneer Plasma 


I got rid of the brighthouse Cable boxes and replaces them with Tivos and have been happy ever since! Tivo rules... but bring on the content!!!!!


----------



## nhaigh

Sevenfeet said:


> ....But as expected, the S3 still cannot understand AAC files (any variety), which means the lion's share of my iTunes library, much of it Apple Lossless, is not available to the S3......


Not really a TiVo issue though. The Apple DRM is the only reason I don't buy from iTunes. I want fair use of the music I own and that includes using it on Non-Apple branded equipment.

Oh...and still no sign of 8.1


----------



## Maeglin

aringhof said:


> all three of my Tivos received the update with no issues. I think the update is overrated... the only real difference i see if the delete wastebasket... big deal... come on Tivo, we want CONTENT!! its all about the CONTENT!


Someone get this person a Valium, quick!

If you've paid any attention at all, you'd see that the content is coming. The boxes have to support it first


----------



## cwoody222

I played with 8.1 a little bit this morning. While I'm really happy to have the Recently Deleted Folder (and my "Welcome to TiVo" videos from OCTOBER were there!) I have to report the menus were noticably slower. And I don't have any huge amounts of shows on my machine.

The ToDo List took FOREVER (even parts of the cursor selector bar thing didn't draw immediately) and Now Playing was slower than it used to be.


----------



## cwoody222

Animgif said:


> That sucks...I'm sorry


No biggie... I downloaded them on my ReplayTV  That's why I keep that box around.


----------



## Maeglin

cwoody222 said:


> I played with 8.1 a little bit this morning. While I'm really happy to have the Recently Deleted Folder (and my "Welcome to TiVo" videos from OCTOBER were there!) I have to report the menus were noticably slower. And I don't have any huge amounts of shows on my machine.
> 
> The ToDo List took FOREVER (even parts of the cursor selector bar thing didn't draw immediately) and Now Playing was slower than it used to be.


Wait a little while and try again. Unlike the last couple of updates, which started fast and slowed a bit as time went on, 8.1.1 starts slow but speeds up not long after rebooting. Search By Title's speed didn't change, nor did some of the menus, but a lot of them are in fact faster now. That was my observation, anyway...


----------



## hookbill

I have no problem accessing Yahoo.

The only issue I had was the sound bug durring guide use, it's fixed.

I have a delete folder.

I still suspect that many of you who were having pixilation problems will continue to see them. If that's the case then maybe your better off with your cable DVR if in fact it didn't give you that problem. If it wasn't fixed now, I doubt it's going to get fixed later.

My S3 however is working perfectly.


----------



## Monty2_2001

Just got mine after a force connect.. Yay.


----------



## hookbill

Maeglin said:


> Someone get this person a Valium, quick!
> 
> If you've paid any attention at all, you'd see that the content is coming. The boxes have to support it first


Most of that "content" at TiVo central is really nothng I want anyway.


----------



## Maeglin

hookbill said:


> Most of that "content" at TiVo central is really nothng I want anyway.


To each their own. I'm interested in the c|net TiVoCast, considering my hobbies and what I do for a living, but as for the rest of it... not so much. Depending on what they're offering, the Unbox video rental might be interesting as well when that happens.


----------



## TiVolunteer

Got 8.1 on one of my S3's last night.

First two reboots after install got hung up at the Acquiring Channel information screen. Eventually they timed out to a "TiVo is unable to acquire channel information" screen with an option to retry or go to TiVo Central. So it looks like the "reboot cycle" fix included more error handling.

Third reboot had no problem getting channel information and came up fine.

*A few observations about 8.1* 
Here are some observations that I've not seen posted


Updated Diagnostics screen
"Tuner" is now "RecordChannel"-- Instead of listing Tuner 0 and Tuner 1 it lists RecordChannel 0 and RecordChannel 1 -- I guess to avoid confusion about 4 (2 Cable, 2 OTA) tuners but only 2 active at any time
Better Tuner Status -- 8.0 said "Currently Tuned", 8.1 says "Tuned:Success" -- During the reboots listed above I was getting "General Tuner Error" in this field
"Channel Bits" added -- numbers reading 30746 for a QAM HD channel -- not sure what this is
CCI Byte added for each "Record Channel"
LOTS more Cable Card Diag info including "Channel List Received" (Yes/No) and "Decrypt RecordChannel"

"Acquiring Channel Information" screen updated
Now updates with a count of channels as it loads them -- during my reboots above this was counting up to 398 then recycling to 0
Background graphic updated -- "calmer" blue with nice shading instead of overwhelming electric blue


----------



## ewilts

aaronwt said:


> That was gone on mine as well as my photo and music folder from my PC. I rebooted the S3 again and Nikon and my folders came back. This only happened on my S3 that had the temporary 8.1 from last week. My other S3 that got the update this evening didn't lose the Nikon or PC folders.


Do you have both the Nikon and Nikon HD folders? Does Nikon HD now work? I've still got the original Nikon one but Nikon HD is the one that disappeared.

Thanks,
.../Ed


----------



## gwsat

cwoody222 said:


> Turns out my reboot last Monday was due to a REALLY bad signal coming in on my OTA NBC-HD station which hosed my recordings of Heroes and Studio 60.
> 
> (but the reboot hosed my recording of 24)
> 
> But anyway, it was NOT a random reboot / failing harddrive or anything serious like that.


God, I would hate that! One of the reasons I bought my S3 was to be able to record 24 in HD. Here in OKC the Fox affiliates owner has prohibited Cox OKC from retransmitting Foxs HD programs, as has the owner of the local ABC affiliate. Fortunately, my S3 keeps these disagreements from being a problem for me any more. So far my S3s hiccups have not caused me to lose any important recordings. I hope that my luck holds.


----------



## moyekj

TiVolunteer said:


> ...*A few observations about 8.1*...


 Yes, some good info indeed. The CCI byte actually updates correctly for unencrypted channels as well (previously cablecard diagnostic screens did not update for unencrypted channels). I still don't see a way to tell if a channel is encrypted or unencrypted from Diagnostics screen though - not sure what the following mean but they never seem to change for me:
cablecard #0: Decrypt RecordChannels: 1 (0)
cablecard #1: Decrypt RecordChannels: 1 (1)
The number in brackets refers to the cablecard #, not sure about the 1st number.


----------



## seattle_s3

I got 8.1 last night. I never had any problems before and I really haven't noticed any difference now. I'm sure the deleted folder will come in handy. This is my first Tivo, so I'm looking forward to TivoCast content.


----------



## Jiffylush

Got mine last night as well, took a really long time to download/load, but after the reboot it said it was going to be another hour, only took ~30 minutes though.

I think I am really going to like the Kidzone (no more random crap coming up when the tivo is idle), recently deleted is probably going to be nice also, already like that I don't have to confirm deletion.


----------



## Fofer

Sevenfeet said:


> The only glitch was that the Tivo could no longer access the iPhoto and iTunes libraries on my Mac. A reboot of the Mac fixes that. But as expected, the S3 still cannot understand AAC files (any variety), which means the lion's share of my iTunes library, much of it Apple Lossless, is not available to the S3.





nhaigh said:


> Not really a TiVo issue though. The Apple DRM is the only reason I don't buy from iTunes.


It's not as simple of an explanation as "Apple DRM" being to blame, dhaigh. Standard AAC (.m4a) files have no DRM whatsoever; it's an open and non-proprietary format. This is not to be confused with iTunes purchases which are AAC with a DRM wrapper (.m4p.)

It's just that the TiVo doesn't recognize anything other than MP3's, and doesn't have support for that codec.

Fortunately there have been ways discussed that allow TiVoDesktop to "transcode on the fly" those AACs so the TiVo can "see" them and play them back:

http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=2608116&&#post2608116

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20050217074716445

http://www.macgeekery.com/node/91

Basically, at least on a Mac, all you have to do is install the LAME library and the TiVo will be able to play standard AAC files. I recall reading of a similar transcoding "trick" for PC's as well.

This "unsupported trick" worked fine for me with my Series 2, but I haven't yet checked with my Series 3. Since the transcoding is done on the Mac, I cant help but feel that it should still work. It wouldn't work on iTunes purchases though, as those DO have DRM attached. And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work on Apple Lossless files. But it very well could (and should) work on any of Sevenfeet's standard AAC files that he created himself from ripping CD's.


----------



## BakedBeans

I have not got the soft ver 8.1.1-01-2-648 update yet... will try to force it tonight.

But I would like to know does it fix the Wifi reboot problem?

I cannot use the tivo wifi adapter because when its plugged into either USB port the system freezes or reboots spontaneously. My only cure is to disconnect teh wifi and use an ethernet cable.

Multiple calls to Tivo support have be futile in getting this issue resolved. 

So... will this update fix wifi?


----------



## btwyx

TiVolunteer said:


> [*]"Channel Bits" added -- numbers reading 30746 for a QAM HD channel -- not sure what this is


It sounds like the bandwidth (in kb/s) of the RF carrier channel its tuned to. You have about 30Mb/s on that carrier, onto which it stuffing the various subchannels it stuffs the programming onto. Its probably QAM256, which it should say somewhere in the diagnostics. That's enough for 2 good HD channels (at 15Mb/s each) or 3 crappy HD channels (at 10Mb/s) each, or 7-16 SD channels at varying degrees of crappyness.

That was my theory until I looked at an OTA channel. They all said 6170, which is not right for the RF bandwidth, it should be nearer 19400.


----------



## MichaelK

and I think QAM 256 has more then 40mbps. I was under the impression that they could fit 2 full 19.2 atsc streams and then a bit in one QAM 256.

(But i could be wrong)


----------



## hookbill

BakedBeans said:


> I have not got the soft ver 8.1.1-01-2-648 update yet... will try to force it tonight.
> 
> But I would like to know does it fix the Wifi reboot problem?
> 
> I cannot use the tivo wifi adapter because when its plugged into either USB port the system freezes or reboots spontaneously. My only cure is to disconnect teh wifi and use an ethernet cable.
> 
> Multiple calls to Tivo support have be futile in getting this issue resolved.
> 
> So... will this update fix wifi?


Probably not. I never heard of this issue. I'm not saying it's in your mind or that it hasn't been reported, but I don't recall this one. Most people have no problem with the TiVo WiFi adapter.


----------



## dswallow

MichaelK said:


> and I think QAM 256 has more then 40mbps. I was under the impression that they could fit 2 full 19.2 atsc streams and then a bit in one QAM 256.
> 
> (But i could be wrong)


QAM256 provides for 38Mbps of bandwidth in a 6MHz channel.


----------



## MichaelK

dswallow said:


> QAM256 provides for 38Mbps of bandwidth in a 6MHz channel.


basically 2 full atsc channels exactly- interesting...


----------



## wmcbrine

I got the update this morning (along with a huge lineup change -- no connection). It fixed my no-audio channels on Fios, but CNNHD (now on 81) is still blank.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the spacing between lines on _some_ of the menus has shrunk. (I presume it's to allow more options, although none have been added yet.) But other menus retain the old spacing, making for an inconsistent look. Very ugly.


----------



## moyekj

btwyx said:


> That was my theory until I looked at an OTA channel. They all said 6170, which is not right for the RF bandwidth, it should be nearer 19400.


 Maybe it doesn't work right for 8VSB modulation and is only working right for QAM. I'll have to double check tonight if my S3 reports screwy numbers for OTA channels as well...


----------



## ZikZak

Is anyone else experiencing a "floating" Recently Deleted folder? Whenever I exit from RD, the folder appears at the bottom of the first screen of now playing, instead of the bottom of the several-pages-long Now Playing _list._


----------



## cokyq

Well I think I finally got it! After several forced connections this afternoon, the last one took about 20 minutes (ethernet) and now I have a pending restart on the last status field. 

Since I am currently recording a show... I will reboot as soon as it is over!


----------



## bareyb

I got mine this morning some time. Dare I say the "Now Playing" list scrolls normally? Seems to work as expected for me now whereas it used to be slow. I haven't checked it out too much yet, but so far I like the upgrade. :up:


----------



## MichaelK

moyekj said:


> Maybe it doesn't work right for 8VSB modulation and is only working right for QAM. I'll have to double check tonight if my S3 reports screwy numbers for OTA channels as well...


i think we came to the conclusion it doesn't reperesnt QAM256 correctly either.


----------



## FlippedBit

Brad Smith said:


> I got the update last night and unfortunately have to report that the audio dropout issue followed by pixelation is  while improved  definitely not fixed. It happens just a little bit less than it did before, the audio dropout is shorter, and the pixelation is quicker and not as widespread on the screen. Unfortunately it definitely still happens.


I checked it on a show I recorded before the upgrade and the effects seemed about the same to me. Haven't recorded anything since the upgrade so I don't know if the problem is better or not for new content.


----------



## aaronwt

wmcbrine said:


> I got the update this morning (along with a huge lineup change -- no connection). It fixed my no-audio channels on Fios, but CNNHD (now on 81) is still blank.
> 
> One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the spacing between lines on _some_ of the menus has shrunk. (I presume it's to allow more options, although none have been added yet.) But other menus retain the old spacing, making for an inconsistent look. Very ugly.


So CNN started broadcasting in HD already?


----------



## TexasAg

aaronwt said:


> So CNN started broadcasting in HD already?


He meant CNNHN (CNN Headline News).


----------



## aaronwt

TexasAg said:


> He meant CNNHN (CNN Headline News).


----------



## bsd

BakedBeans said:


> I have not got the soft ver 8.1.1-01-2-648 update yet... will try to force it tonight.
> 
> But I would like to know does it fix the Wifi reboot problem?
> 
> I cannot use the tivo wifi adapter because when its plugged into either USB port the system freezes or reboots spontaneously. My only cure is to disconnect teh wifi and use an ethernet cable.
> 
> Multiple calls to Tivo support have be futile in getting this issue resolved.
> 
> So... will this update fix wifi?


Could this be because of the wireless security protocols weren't available prior to the new sofware update? Other than that, I hadn't heard of this problem either. Did you report to TiVo?

-Brett


----------



## cokyq

Don't want to upset anyone, but isn't this thread to address 8.1 update related posts? It seems to me that there are posts that would be better off in their own thread!


----------



## bdraw

MichaelK said:


> and I think QAM 256 has more then 40mbps. I was under the impression that they could fit 2 full 19.2 atsc streams and then a bit in one QAM 256.
> 
> (But i could be wrong)


You are wrong about the throughput, but not about the fitting 2+ streams on one QAM channel. The max for ATSC is 19.2 and the max for QAM is 38, but using statistical multiplexing and the fact that 90% of the time each channel isn't maxing out the 19.2 they can usually fit 3 HD streams on the same QAM Channel, lets just hope they are both showing football games at the same time and both have a play running at the same time. What is more common is to have 2 HD streams and one SD stream on the same channel.


----------



## cokyq

I got my 8.1 update this afternoon. After I rebooted the TIVO it said it could take up to one hour to install the update, I checked the time it started 2:06pm and was surpised it finished by 2:14pm! 

Love the deleted folder. Was able to undelete ER which I erased last Saturday. A friend was over Sunday and asked me if I had deleted it and I said yes! Now I can call her and say, I was able to recover it and it is ready for her to come over and watch! 

So Cool!


----------



## nhaigh

Just made my lunchtime connection via slingbox and here comes 8.1


----------



## cokyq

After receiving the 8.1 update I undeleted the original TIVO Video Tours. I noticed the TIVO screens in the video tours seem to be in HD? They seem more crisp than the ones I see when I navigate the menus. Is it me? Am I imagining things? Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## bicker

I did my best to read the entire thread, but haven't seen two issues addressed. Can anyone please confirm that the Partial Recording and Missing Channels bugs have been identified and then effectively resolved by 8.1? Thanks!


----------



## cokyq

Here is another one, when watching the second video tour, the one about watching live TV, when they do a rewind on the football game, it is awesome, I mean smooth! When I do the rewind on my TIVO S3 it is jerky, nothing like the video tour shows!

Anyone else has such smooth rewind? is this something the 8.1 update was supposed to fix?

*UPDATE*: Since this may not be related to the 8.1 update I have started a new thread for it.


----------



## Adam1115

Marduk said:


> Also, am I being naive here by saying I never expected HD quality on a transfer from my S3 to my S2 boxes? Just the ability to move it from one set to the other, was all that I asked. Not trying to be a stickler, but, one of the true qualities of Tivo that made me bought this, was the ability to network my box and transfer media from one box to another. For the $$$ you paid for this, it should have been a no brainer for them.


No, not HD quality, you won't be able to transfer HD content to an SD box AT ALL. You also won't be able to transfer SD shows recorded from a digital OTA or HD Cable channel either. The Series2 wouldn't know what to do with it...


----------



## aringhof

Does anyone else hate that a recorded HD show appears in the HD folder, AND in the general standard area??? for example, I recorded "24" in high Def... but "24" also appears in the standard area... if you delete the "24" in the standard, THAT IS THE HIGH DEF recording... its not two different recordings... that sucks


----------



## mathwhiz

I got the update yesterday, and didn't notice anything not reported here. I did have a problem when I went to watch The Tonight Show (OTA HD channel) it was very pixelated. I thought it was just that channel, so I didn't worry about it last night. This morning when I got up, I checked that channel and it was still pixelated (meaning it looked like it was getting a bad signal and would pixelate in areas at times). I rebooted my TiVo and it cleared it up on all channels except one which does have a lowish signal level.


----------



## aaronwt

aringhof said:


> Does anyone else hate that a recorded HD show appears in the HD folder, AND in the general standard area??? for example, I recorded "24" in high Def... but "24" also appears in the standard area... if you delete the "24" in the standard, THAT IS THE HIGH DEF recording... its not two different recordings... that sucks


The HD folder is useless for me. 95% of what I record is HD. I need an SD folder. They should have the option to enable/disable an HD and SD folder.


----------



## DrSandman

I know I'm going to sound really stupid, but can someone explain how to do a "restart" when it says pending restart. Thanks in advance. Cheers !!


----------



## bareyb

aringhof said:


> Does anyone else hate that a recorded HD show appears in the HD folder, AND in the general standard area??? for example, I recorded "24" in high Def... but "24" also appears in the standard area... if you delete the "24" in the standard, THAT IS THE HIGH DEF recording... its not two different recordings... that sucks


While I like the "HD Folder" I find it less useful than the "Now Playing List" sorted by date. Having ONLY an HD folder would create extra navigation "clicks" that I don't care to add. All you really have to do to solve your problem is just KNOW that shows in the HD Folder are simply "aliases" (aka "shortcuts" for our Windows folks) and are not the original. The original is always in the NPL as it's always been. I thnk they got it right the way it is... JMO of course.


----------



## wackymann

DrSandman said:


> I know I'm going to sound really stupid, but can someone explain how to do a "restart" when it says pending restart. Thanks in advance. Cheers !!


Look through the menus - it's there and not very hard to find. There is actually a list of like 5 different levels of "Restart". You want to pick the top one which simply reboots and doesn't change anything.

They go all the way up to "Clear and Delete Everything", which does just what it says - basically erases your disk and starts from scratch. You'll probably want to avoid that one!


----------



## sammick

I received my update last night--it did take a loooong time--using the phone connection--

But the installation was painless--and I also installed the Tivo wireless---also painless and intuitive.

Really slick!!!!


----------



## cokyq

No I do not hate it! Mostly I ignore the HD folder.


----------



## BoyScout

BoyScout said:


> DAMMIT! I'll have to wait until I get home to check. I wonder if I schedule a recording if it will send the update with it?


Got the update, but not able to play with it this morning.


----------



## DrSandman

Thanks for the info, wackymann ! Cheers !!


----------



## George Cifranci

DrSandman said:


> I know I'm going to sound really stupid, but can someone explain how to do a "restart" when it says pending restart. Thanks in advance. Cheers !!


From TiVO CENTRAL go into MESSAGES and SETTINGS
Then choose RESTART or RESET SYSTEM
Then pick the top option RESTART THE TIVO DIGITAL MEDIA RECORDER
To confirm it will ask you to press the THUMBS DOWN button 3 times then press the ENTER BUTTON.

The TiVO will then reboot.


----------



## Fofer

aringhof said:


> Does anyone else hate that a recorded HD show appears in the HD folder, AND in the general standard area???


Make sense to me; it's like a "Smart Playlist" in iTunes. I *would* hate it if it actually represented two separate recordings... that'd be annoying and stupid!

The way I see it now, it provides a quick way to find all the HD content across all other folders. I quite like it but I can see as HD recordings take up more and more space and percentage of my S3, it would seem a bit redundant. Since HD is still (relatively) new (at least for me!) it's a nice folder to check out for the "show off" material.

I do agree though... make a preference to "Turn off HD folder" and everyone's happy.


----------



## CraigHB

I forced a call today and my TiVo is downloading 8.1 as I write this. I'm so excited  Hurry, hurry.


----------



## acvthree

I do agree though... make a preference to "Turn off HD folder" and everyone's happy.[/QUOTE said:


> I would like it better if it didn't float around.
> 
> It seem inconsistent that it doesn't stay at the bottom like the recently deleted folder.
> 
> If that isn't an option, I'd like some way to get rid of it.
> 
> Al


----------



## hookbill

BoyScout said:


> Got the update, but not able to play with it this morning.


I'll bet it's killing ya,, huh?


----------



## dnorth12

There is an option to turn off the hd folder, if am not mistaken, but you have to turn off all folders to do it. I am not at home, but working from memory, look at the bottom of your now playing list for options and follow the directions. Shouldn't effect recently deleted.


----------



## Fofer

acvthree said:


> I would like it better if it didn't float around.
> 
> It seem inconsistent that it doesn't stay at the bottom like the recently deleted folder.


Mine doesn't float around, I think it shows up alphabetically? I did choose alphabetically for my NP sorting prefs, so that's probably why.



dnorth12 said:


> There is an option to turn off the hd folder, if am not mistaken, but you have to turn off all folders to do it. I am not at home, but working from memory, look at the bottom of your now playing list for options and follow the directions. Shouldn't effect recently deleted.


I love show folders. I'm so-so on the HD folder (as mentioned above.) I think what folks want is a way to keep folder on, but an option to turn the HD folder, specifically, off.


----------



## Dajad

FYI, the update seems to be hitting Canada now because my S3 in Toronto is updating as I type this.

I've been waiting for Recently Deleted Folder functionality for years - second only on my feature wishlist to a free space indicator!

...Dale


----------



## Jiffylush

cokyq said:


> After receiving the 8.1 update I undeleted the original TIVO Video Tours. I noticed the TIVO screens in the video tours seem to be in HD? They seem more crisp than the ones I see when I navigate the menus. Is it me? Am I imagining things? Has anyone else noticed this?


It isn't just you and you aren't imagining things, there are other threads related and for some reason people are bothered by the fact that some users want HD menus on their HD TiVos.


----------



## Fofer

cokyq said:


> After receiving the 8.1 update I undeleted the original TIVO Video Tours. I noticed the TIVO screens in the video tours seem to be in HD? They seem more crisp than the ones I see when I navigate the menus. Is it me? Am I imagining things? Has anyone else noticed this?


If that's the case, would that be an indicator that they are working on it and maybe a future update will bring HD menus to the S3? :up:


----------



## YupYup

aringhof said:


> Does anyone else hate that a recorded HD show appears in the HD folder, AND in the general standard area???


Not me! 90% of what I currently record is SD (analog cable), so I like to be able to easily find those space hogging HD recordings (OTA), so I can watch them and free up the space. Having them in the general list also lets me see them when I'm just casually scrolling through looking for something to watch or delete. But I have to agree with previous posters, that making it (and maybe a SD folder) an on/off option, would make a lot of people happier (but not me, I'm already as happy as a clam with these toys  ).


----------



## randywalters

DrSandman said:


> I know I'm going to sound really stupid, but can someone explain how to do a "restart" when it says pending restart. Thanks in advance. Cheers !!


And i'm going to sound even stupider and ask where the "Pending Restart" message will be displayed once i get the update?


----------



## drew00001

BoyScout said:


> Got the update, but not able to play with it this morning.


I'm sure you'll wait to get home before you "play with it."


----------



## Bierboy

drew00001 said:


> I'm sure you'll wait to get home before you "play with it."


Now THERE'S an image I prefer not to think about


----------



## Bierboy

randywalters said:


> And i'm going to sound even stupider and ask where the "Pending Restart" message will be displayed once i get the update?


Messages & Settings ----> Account & System Information ----> System Information


----------



## greg_burns

Bierboy said:


> System information.


Sorry, but I don't think that's right. It is in the same screen where you force the connection.


----------



## cokyq

Last Status:


----------



## Bierboy

greg_burns said:


> Sorry, but I don't think that's right. It is in the same screen where you force the connection.


I believe I am correct....Last Status under Service Connection.


----------



## greg_burns

Bierboy said:


> I believe I am correct....Last Status under Service Connection.


Wanna bet? 

Oh, maybe it is there as well.


----------



## Bierboy

greg_burns said:


> Wanna bet?


Sure  I've checked often enough with software updates that I remember where you find "pending restart".


----------



## greg_burns

Bierboy said:


> Sure  I've checked often enough with software updates that I remember where you find "pending restart".


I always see it in the Network COnnection screen where you choose "Connect to the TiVo service now."

Learn something everyday!


----------



## phox_mulder

greg_burns said:


> I always see it in the Network COnnection screen where you choose "Connect to the TiVo service now."
> 
> Learn something everyday!


That's where I've always looked.
Or the phone connection screen on the DirecTiVo's (or the S2 before I went wireless)

phox


----------



## George Cifranci

greg_burns said:


> Sorry, but I don't think that's right. It is in the same screen where you force the connection.


It can be seen in both places.


----------



## aaronwt

My third S3 just got the update. It's at the install screen now. Now hopefully they'll flip the Switch for TiVoCast and product watch soon.


----------



## snathanb

Got it around 3:30pm today... at the "this may take up to and hour, possibly longer" screen.


----------



## dswallow

cokyq said:


> After receiving the 8.1 update I undeleted the original TIVO Video Tours. I noticed the TIVO screens in the video tours seem to be in HD? They seem more crisp than the ones I see when I navigate the menus. Is it me? Am I imagining things? Has anyone else noticed this?


This should explain what's going on in those videos: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4740397&&#post4740397


----------



## George Cifranci

snathanb said:


> Got it around 3:30pm today... at the "this may take up to and hour, possibly longer" screen.


It should only take around 15 min or less so don't be alarmed.


----------



## snathanb

Thanks... wasn't alarmed, and yes, it was quick.


----------



## Norm Shelton

I finally got my 8.1 update.

Normally I shut down my router at night & TIVO updates during the day. If it trys during the night and fails it tries again during the day so I really don't care as far as programming information goes. 

I was really wanting 8.1 and I started to think maybe during the night would be a better time to get a large update based on availability from TIVO.

At any rate last night I left my router on so TIVO stayed connected and this morning I had 8.1.

My "Recently Deleted" folder is there along with 37 recently deleted programs.

Now I am waiting for TIVO To Go.


----------



## mrmike

mrmike said:


> Sadly, 8.0.1c didn't fix mine. Both the OTA and cable versions cause it (which causes me to think it's a PSIP or stream formatting issue that's part of the signal chain at point of origin). I'm hoping that 8.1 will fix it for me so I can put my LG DVR into third tuner backup mode and not use it very often since it only has 12 hours of storage and gets wonky when I get more than 9 hours on it (gets too slow to power up and misses recordings).


Even more sadly, 8.1 didn't fix this issue. I need to reopen a case with TiVo and see if I can help them fix this problem. It's cramping my TV addiction


----------



## SugarBowl

Guide navigation is a lot faster and smoother.


----------



## Forcelite

So is MRV on with this update.
What about Tivo cast?


----------



## dswallow

Forcelite said:


> So is MRV on with this update.
> What about Tivo cast?


The answers you seek are in the first post of the thread you posted in.


----------



## Fofer

Forcelite said:


> So is MRV on with this update.


No.



Forcelite said:


> What about Tivo cast?


The capability is there now, hidden and ready to be used, but TiVo needs to flip the switch on their servers (we're told "soon") so we can actually enjoy it.


----------



## BakedBeans

hookbill said:


> Probably not. I never heard of this issue. I'm not saying it's in your mind or that it hasn't been reported, but I don't recall this one. Most people have no problem with the TiVo WiFi adapter.


Surprised you have not heard of this issue. Its been reported here on the forums and was a problem with S2's as well.


----------



## Forcelite

Thanks Fofer for the quick answer. 

These postings get bogged down with so much chatter that the useful data is hidden. Sorry I dont have time to read 25 pages of posts. There should be a sticky with this type of info on the top.

Force


----------



## Fofer

dswallow said:


> The answers you seek are in the first post of the thread you posted in.


No, they're not. Pony didn't mention MRV until post #17, and his mention of TiVoCast in post #1 is currently incomplete/incorrect. I'm too lazy to search for it now, but it wasn't until much later in the thread that we learned we wouldn't be able to enjoy TiVoCast until TiVo flips some other switch.


----------



## dswallow

Fofer said:


> No, they're not. Pony didn't mention MRV until post #17, and his mention of TiVoCast in post #1 is currently incomplete/incorrect. I'm too lazy to search for it now, but it wasn't until much later in the thread that we learned we wouldn't be able to enjoy TiVoCast until TiVo flips some other switch.


The answers he sought were there, in the first post.

He didn't ask if TiVoCast could be used immediately. He asked if it was there. And MRV isn't mentioned in TiVoPony's list of things in the update. MRV also isn't in the update. Amazing coincidence, huh?! This software release also doesn't include numerous other things, like refueling your car at the press of a button, or bringing world peace. But TiVoPony didn't need to list all the things that aren't there in a post about what is added, did he?

Yeah yeah. I know. Just it still irks me people can't seem to even be bothered to look at a thread even in the smallest amount before just plopping a post with questions repeatedly answered already into it. It was just my turn to add a little encouragement to self-satisfaction around this place. NTTAWWT. 

And you know, there's also a "search this thread" feature that one could've typed "MRV" into...


----------



## hookbill

BakedBeans said:


> Surprised you have not heard of this issue. Its been reported here on the forums and was a problem with S2's as well.


I think my brain, or what's left of it is overloaded with people's "issues." I'm trying not to say that people make things up, that would be crazy but sometimes I just have to wonder.

Then there is the "issue of the weak" and the "issue that was brought up in October revived for this week" followed by the "issue that is so ridiculous who could possibly care." This issue may have been a bit obscure but I don't see anyone else responding except me.

Now that I've made an issue out of issues maybe you'll get a good response.


----------



## hookbill

dswallow said:


> And you know, there's also a "search this thread" feature that one could've typed "MRV" into...


Oh my God. Use the SEARCH. Geeze, Doug that's a hell of an idea.


----------



## dswallow

hookbill said:


> Oh my God. Use the SEARCH. Geeze, Doug that's a hell of an idea.


Imagine how useful your TiVo would be with a way to search for programs... that must be how some people experience this forum.


----------



## Fofer

dswallow said:


> Just it still irks me people can't seem to even be bothered to look at a thread even in the smallest amount


I don't let these things irk me, I suppose. Life's too short. And there are certainly bigger fish to fry. The guy asked a question, I knew the answer. It didn't take more than a few seconds to respond kindly. And the world keeps on spinnin'.

-shrug-


----------



## BoyScout

The irony is that all the filler makes it harder to find or search for a particular post. 

I know I am guilty. I do a search. I come up with 3000 hits. I scan the headers and read a few. After 30 mins, I ask a question. I know that I'll get some pot shots, but I'll usually also get the answer or a link to the answer.

Maybe my search skills aren't as developed as some. I don't spend all day on these forums though, so I guess I don't see the same questions asked over and over and over again. That would be annoying to have to break into my post count to respond to some lame-ash poster asking the same question I've seen for the zillionth time.


----------



## ScratchFury

ReidWings said:


> No QAM in your area? Before I had my CC's installed, I just did manual recordings for that kinda stuff.


D'oh! I forgot all about that. I'm so used to having my HDTV have the tuner, and it's being fixed. Anyways, I got the update a few hours ago after forcing a connection today. Reboot problem is totally gone and all my channels work.


----------



## mattman

Got the update today myself. I really haven't had any of the problems that folks are complaining about, or possibly better stated, if I did have them, they didn't bother me enough to have noticed them. Very glad to have the recently deleted folder, and moreso to have the one touch deletions back. The new look on the HD folder is OK, but I'd much rather have the ability to turn it off.

All in all, I'm happy with the new update and hoping for MRV ASAP, and praying for TTG at some point.

Matt


----------



## randywalters

Bierboy said:


> Messages & Settings ----> Account & System Information ----> System Information


You're right - it now says "*Pending restart*" next to the *Last Status:* line.

It's also shown in Phone and Network ----> Phone Connection after the line Last status:

But the S3 is currently recording a few programs so i have to wait till they're done before restarting . . . . . darn.


----------



## Diacritical

jfh3 said:


> There are about 1000 things that should be higher on the priority list.
> 
> Most people get updates installed a 2:00 am and never even see that screen.


I would *love* to see that screen. Turns out 8.1.1 does not fix the two most annoying bugs (well, the second one is probably a design feature).

First, "Browse by time" is still unendurably slow. It takes up to 90 seconds for a list of programs on "favorite channels" to appear after selecting a day and time. Page down from there takes even longer. Some have reported that this is not a problem, but as it turns out, none of them have very much program information. The problem seems to go away if I only subscribe to 15 channels or so. With my standard 220, it's a big deal.

Second, the TiVo boots in 480i no matter how you have it set and hitting the "mode" button has no effect until it has fully booted. My TV sat there with "unsupportable mode" for 40 minutes while the update installed -- I had no idea if it was working or not and no picture appeared until the message that there had been an update. *For the love of God, TiVo -- have the thing boot in high def over the component outputs.*

--


----------



## aaronwt

Whats wrong with booting in 480i? I have no problems with it. Once it's finished booting it reverts back to the resolution you had it set to before the restart.


----------



## Diacritical

aaronwt said:


> Whats wrong with booting in 480i? I have no problems with it. Once it's finished booting it reverts back to the resolution you had it set to before the restart.


That's fine if your TV supports 480i on all your component (and HDMI/DVI) connections. Many do not.... mine only supports 480i on the first component connection, and that maxes at 480p -- perfect for DVD, but not very good for HDTV. As it is, there's no way to see what is happening until it boots all the way. Any problems (like the green screen) are completely hidden.

There's no reason to lock it down at 480i over component. 480p should be the minimum.


----------



## hookbill

Diacritical said:


> I would *love* to see that screen. Turns out 8.1.1 does not fix the two most annoying bugs (well, the second one is probably a design feature).
> 
> First, "Browse by time" is still unendurably slow. It takes up to 90 seconds for a list of programs on "favorite channels" to appear after selecting a day and time. Page down from there takes even longer. Some have reported that this is not a problem, but as it turns out, none of them have very much program information. The problem seems to go away if I only subscribe to 15 channels or so. With my standard 220, it's a big deal.
> 
> Second, the TiVo boots in 480i no matter how you have it set and hitting the "mode" button has no effect until it has fully booted. My TV sat there with "unsupportable mode" for 40 minutes while the update installed -- I had no idea if it was working or not and no picture appeared until the message that there had been an update. *For the love of God, TiVo -- have the thing boot in high def over the component outputs.*--


I never gave it much thought but when it boots it has to be in HD, at least 720p or 1080i because you get the cool THX message and TiVo taking his bow. This is all in glorious Dolby 5.1, I frequently play it back just because it sounds so cool (Tivo Central, press 0). So how you guys are getting it to boot in 480i is a mystery to me.


----------



## aaronwt

Oh. I've never owned an HD set that couldn't handle 480i.
Why not just connect a secondary output with the svdieo or composite out. Then just use it for occasions when the TiVo is rebooted.


----------



## Diacritical

aaronwt said:


> Oh. I've never owned an HD set that couldn't handle 480i.
> Why not just connect a secondary output with the svdieo or composite out. Then just use it for occasions when the TiVo is rebooted.


480i is not HD -- so it might not be surprising that there are quite a few models that only handle HD on their HD component inputs. I would not mind finding a workaround for TiVo's decision not to use HD signals to display various screens on their HD DVR, but I cannot decide which of my other video sources should be disconnected (and it's not so easy getting back there as I would like it to be). I suppose I could get an A/B switch to work around TiVo's decision not to use HD signals for all of the screens on their HD DVR... and I may end up having to do that if there is a technical reason they cannot fix their HD DVR to use HD signals on their component outputs (which may be the case... it just seems odd that they would consciously decide to do things this way unless there is some sort of driver issue (i.e., they cannot fix it easily)).


----------



## cherry ghost

aaronwt said:


> Oh. I've never owned an HD set that couldn't handle 480i.
> Why not just connect a secondary output with the svdieo or composite out. Then just use it for occasions when the TiVo is rebooted.


Exactly what I do, composite to video1. Then I switch to the input my S2 is on and put the S3 in the PIP.


----------



## tinkererguy

SugarBowl said:


> Guide navigation is a lot faster and smoother.


I agree, guide faster on 8.1.

Unfortunately, my pixellation problems on both my S3s aren't behind me yet though, see:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4893013#post4893013


----------



## Buran

I got the update installed this evening. Promptly updated the home network to WPA. WEP just had to go. I still think the security part of the update should have been out ages ago.

So far the UI seems a little snappier, and there is now "HD" printed on the HDTV folder, but I haven't poked at it much otherwise. 30-sec skip still works fine. Haven't yet deleted a show, but I had the "recently deleted" folder on my Series 2 and I'm not expecting any differences.


----------



## cokyq

> This should explain what's going on in those videos: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-v...7&&#post4740397


Thanks for the link Doug!


----------



## suzook

i think the guide is much quicker, along with no audio dropouts during guide scrolling.


----------



## rjom

I have received another update. My second. Anyone else get two, and why? First one seemed complete, except some wishlist delays going back and forth to the guide.


----------



## CrispyCritter

Diacritical said:


> Second, the TiVo boots in 480i no matter how you have it set and hitting the "mode" button has no effect until it has fully booted. My TV sat there with "unsupportable mode" for 40 minutes while the update installed -- I had no idea if it was working or not and no picture appeared until the message that there had been an update. *For the love of God, TiVo -- have the thing boot in high def over the component outputs.*--


Hitting which mode button? The one on the remote won't work, but does hitting the format button on the TiVo front work? I've always assumed that's why it's there.


----------



## Diacritical

CrispyCritter said:


> Hitting which mode button? The one on the remote won't work, but does hitting the format button on the TiVo front work? I've always assumed that's why it's there.


It does not work until the system is fully booted. You get 480i no matter what until then.


----------



## kucharsk

Diacritical said:


> It does not work until the system is fully booted. You get 480i no matter what until then.


That is *not* true. My Panasonic plasma can only deal with 480p, 720p and 1080i over its DVI output, but _not_ 480i. Yet I can see the various boot screens just fine.

As far as I know, the TiVo will honor the "format" setting even while booting.


----------



## Diacritical

kucharsk said:


> That is *not* true. My Panasonic plasma can only deal with 480p, 720p and 1080i over its DVI output, but _not_ 480i. Yet I can see the various boot screens just fine.
> 
> As far as I know, the TiVo will honor the "format" setting even while booting.


Either you are mistaken or my TiVo and my father's TiVo and my neighbor's TiVo are all broken in the same unique way. That would mean that the support person who calmed me down when I first plugged it in (no video at all for a few minutes) and explained that it only outputs 480i during the boot process was misinformed as well.


----------



## minckster

Diacritical said:


> It does not work until the system is fully booted. You get 480i no matter what until then.


 That is not true. My Samsung LCD can only deal with 480p, 720p and 1080i over its HDMI input, but not 480i. Yet I can see the various boot screens just fine.


----------



## kucharsk

Diacritical said:


> Either you are mistaken or my TiVo and my father's TiVo and my neighbor's TiVo are all broken in the same unique way. That would mean that the support person who calmed me down when I first plugged it in (no video at all for a few minutes) and explained that it only outputs 480i during the boot process was misinformed as well.


I wouldn't doubt that the customer service person was uninformed. 

I _can_ guarantee that:

1) My display doesn't do 480i
2) I see what I _believe_ to be all the TiVo boot messages

My apologies in advance if the TiVo outputs screens other than the initial welcome and booting screens that I haven't seen because they're being output at 480i.

*Edit*: I just noticed you're using the _component_ outputs; perhaps the TiVo always uses the selected format for the *HDMI* output, as that's how mine is connected.


----------



## CrispyCritter

kucharsk said:


> I wouldn't doubt that the customer service person was uninformed.
> 
> I _can_ guarantee that:
> 
> 1) My display doesn't do 480i
> 2) I see what I _believe_ to be all the TiVo boot messages
> 
> My apologies in advance if the TiVo outputs screens other than the initial welcome and booting screens that I haven't seen because they're being output at 480i.
> 
> *Edit*: I just noticed you're using the _component_ outputs; perhaps the TiVo always uses the selected format for the *HDMI* output, as that's how mine is connected.


I think you may be onto something with your edit. There's a fair number of TVs out there that can't do 480i over HDMI, and I had assumed the format button helped them, and it seems it does. It sounds like you see all the screens.

I haven't heard before of a TV that can't do 480i over component; that seems much more unusual.

Diacritical, what kind of TV do you have?


----------



## tinkererguy

suzook said:


> i think the guide is much quicker, along with no audio dropouts during guide scrolling.


Noticed the same things, although guides were similarly faster when I first bought the TiVo and had no shows stored yet.

Also noticed that recently deleted shows, deleted within 24 hours PRIOR to the 8.1 update, actually showed up in the new "Recently Deleted" folder.

And the "Music, Photos, Products, & More" section of TiVo Central works fine with apps.tv Subscription Manager apps, more info here:
http://www.apps.tv/


----------



## Maeglin

tinkererguy said:


> Also noticed that recently deleted shows, deleted within 24 hours PRIOR to the 8.1 update, actually showed up in the new "Recently Deleted" folder.


The file system was apparently already tracking recently deleted shows, as in the handling of deleted ones hasn't changed between 8.0.x and 8.1.x, but the code for viewing and restoring them wasn't there until 8.1.


----------



## Fofer

rjom said:


> I have received another update. My second. Anyone else get two, and why? First one seemed complete, except some wishlist delays going back and forth to the guide.


What's your new System Version?


----------



## Fofer

tinkererguy said:


> Also noticed that recently deleted shows, deleted within 24 hours PRIOR to the 8.1 update, actually showed up in the new "Recently Deleted" folder.


Mine went even further back than that... like two weeks worth of deleted shows. (I've only had the S3 for two weeks, though. I suspect it shows as many deleted shows as hard drive space would've allowed to recover...)


----------



## ADG

Fofer said:


> Mine went even further back than that... like two weeks worth of deleted shows. (I've only had the S3 for two weeks, though. I suspect it shows as many deleted shows as hard drive space would've allowed to recover...)


Precisely


----------



## Corran Horn

I noticed mine was 'pending restart' yesterday around 10pm, and I manually rebooted it just to make sure everything came up ok. If 8.1 hosed my cablecards somehow I probably would have cried.

Thankfully, everything is all right. Good luck to everybody.


----------



## Corran Horn

kucharsk said:


> I wouldn't doubt that the customer service person was uninformed.
> 
> I _can_ guarantee that:
> 
> 1) My display doesn't do 480i
> 2) I see what I _believe_ to be all the TiVo boot messages
> 
> My apologies in advance if the TiVo outputs screens other than the initial welcome and booting screens that I haven't seen because they're being output at 480i.
> 
> *Edit*: I just noticed you're using the _component_ outputs; perhaps the TiVo always uses the selected format for the *HDMI* output, as that's how mine is connected.


Another strange thing...my Sony (KV32-HS510) 32" auto-detects 16x9 source and adjusts the screen accordingly. Unfortunately, when using the DVI input (HDMI-->DVI cable coming from Tivo) to view Tivo'd fullscreen shows the TV squishes them instead of utilizing the full screen. I had thought the S3's "Smart display" setting would resolve this, but it still squishes them. Of course, 16x9 HD shows look great.

The weird thing is, the Tivo's booting screens show up in full screen. I'd thought the TV was automatically taking *everything* from the DVI input and thinking it was 16x9, but that must not be the case.


----------



## cab2

I don't know if this is related to the upgrade or not, but I now can't see my other series 2 tivo from the S3. I just noticed that last night after I rebooted to get the upgrade. I honestly haven't paid too much attention to the listing for my other tivo since I know I can't do anything with it yet. But, I know the bedroom tivo was listed in my now playing list before the upgrade. Now, it's not. I need to do some more looking around tonight. I always used to be able to see the other tivo before, but could not do anything with transfering stuff, so kinda stoped paying attention to it. I know last night, it was not listed on either tivo. I have an s3 in the living room, and a s2 in the bedroom. They used to at least see each other. Now, they are not listed.


----------



## Fofer

My S2's aren't hooked up currently but when they were, I'm 99% sure they didn't appear in my S3.

I'd think the fact that it was listing the other TiVo on yours was a bug, and that's been fixed with 8.1. 

If/when MRV comes to the 8.1, the listing will return.

At least, that's the way I'd look at it.


----------



## cwoody222

I noticed when changing the KUID amount you can no longer hold down the Right Arrow to quickly move it. Minor annoyance.


----------



## Leo_N

Fofer said:


> My S2's aren't hooked up currently but when they were, I'm 99% sure they didn't appear in my S3.
> 
> I'd think the fact that it was listing the other TiVo on yours was a bug, and that's been fixed with 8.1.
> 
> If/when MRV comes to the 8.1, the listing will return.
> 
> At least, that's the way I'd look at it.


Not a bug at all, and nothing to do with 8.1. If you look in System Information you will see TivoToGo listed about 2/3 way down the first page. It will have i,i,i listed as its value. This is the setting for inactive, inactive, inactive. Tivo has accidentally switch some over to a,a,a (active,active,active) This setting has been in the S3s all along, back around December or so, I had the same thing happen to me where I could browse all my S2s and my TivoDesktopServer. Within a couple days Tivo had set the flags back to i,i,i and it all went away. I am pretty sure some part of TivoToGo has been included in the S3 since launch, just completely disabled except for these "oops" moments.


----------



## Fofer

Leo_N said:


> Not a bug at all, and nothing to do with 8.1. If you look in System Information you will see TivoToGo listed about 2/3 way down the first page. It will have i,i,i listed as its value. This is the setting for inactive, inactive, inactive. Tivo has accidentally switch some over to a,a,a (active,active,active) This setting has been in the S3s all along, back around December or so, I had the same thing happen to me where I could browse all my S2s and my TivoDesktopServer. Within a couple days Tivo had set the flags back to i,i,i and it all went away. I am pretty sure some part of TivoToGo has been included in the S3 since launch, just completely disabled except for these "oops" moments.


I guess it comes down to semantics, then. What I meant in my post what that I'd consider an "accidental TTG flag setting of a,a,a on an S3 today" to be a bug. There were posts earlier in this thread where someone who got 8.1 in the first batch noticed this on his box shortly thereafter-- it caused a flurry of questions about MRV's status-- and it's since been corrected on his unit.

When/if TTG and/or MRV is available to S3 users, the flag setting will be correctly set.

I do agree that the code for MRV is sitting and lying dormant on our machines and we are just waiting for TiVo/CableLabs Certification/whatever so the flip can get switched, our flags get changed from i,i,i to a,a,a, and everything works the way we hope.

But for now, if we're not supposed to have it, and it wouldn't work properly, the a,a,a flag is incorrect and a bug somewhere caused it to be flipped incorrectly.


----------



## CharlesH

CrispyCritter said:


> I think you may be onto something with your edit. There's a fair number of TVs out there that can't do 480i over HDMI, and I had assumed the format button helped them, and it seems it does. It sounds like you see all the screens.


Just another data point: I am using HDMI, I see the TiVo boot messages, and my Samsung does not do 480i on HDMI. Apparently, the HDMI output uses the specified output mode even at boot.

If your TV cannot handle the output format that TiVo is using, it would be real difficult to navigate the menus (which you cannot see) to change it. Thus the physical button. But it sure is in stealth mode. Not to mention the confusion over the word "format".


----------



## Dajad

I've had a glitch with 1.8 and the "Recently Deleted Folders" option.

When I went into the Recently Deleted folders list and then pressed the left arrow to leave it would NOT leave. So then I pressed the TiVo button and it returned me to TiVo Central. Pushing the TiVo button again or selecting the "Now Playing List" took me back to the Recently Deleted Folders. I couldn't get back to "Now Playing". So, I rebooted the system.

Later when I tried again the same thing happened. But, after a few go rounds I just pressed the left arrow (from the Recently Deleted folder) I noticed it DID take me to the "Now Playing" list but the only thing on the "Now Playing" List was the Recently Deleted Folder, and then about 30 seconds later all the other items popped out.

So, it seems that when I leave the RDF it takes about 30 seconds to populate the Now Plyaing list. Does anyone else have this as an issue?

Otherwise, I'm finding the S3 slower when scrolling menus then it was before and things (items in lists) just seem to gradually pop in or out rather than all at once as before - if this makes any sense. Or, funnily enough, when I delete a show on the "Now Playing" list by hitting the Clear button, it doesn't just disappear. It sits for a bit, then a grey X comes up beside it then it disappears. It takes about 3 seconds. I just assumed it would disappear immediately.

But I do otherwise really enjoy how easy and fast it is to delete shows - no more "are you sure" prompts after EVERY darn delete.

...Dale


----------



## CharlesH

Dajad said:


> Or, funnily enough, when I delete a show on the "Now Playing" list by hitting the Clear button, it doesn't just disappear. It sits for a bit, then a grey X comes up beside it then it disappears. It takes about 3 seconds. I just assumed it would disappear immediately.


It also does this on Series2 with 8.1. I think it is a deliberate feature: the idea is that you could delete several items in quick succession and not have to redraw the entire list every time.


----------



## ZikZak

Dajad said:


> When I went into the Recently Deleted folders list and then pressed the left arrow to leave it would NOT leave. So then I pressed the TiVo button and it returned me to TiVo Central. Pushing the TiVo button again or selecting the "Now Playing List" took me back to the Recently Deleted Folders. I couldn't get back to "Now Playing". So, I rebooted the system.


That's interesting; I'm having a different problem with left-arrow from the RD folder. When I press left arrow to get out of it, I can always get back to Now Playing, with the cursor on the RD folder, but the folder itself ends up listed in the middle of NP instead of at the end.

My menus are also now slower than before and it takes about 30 seconds to populate the To Do List.


----------



## cwoody222

ZikZak said:


> That's interesting; I'm having a different problem with left-arrow from the RD folder. When I press left arrow to get out of it, I can always get back to Now Playing, with the cursor on the RD folder, but the folder itself ends up listed in the middle of NP instead of at the end.
> 
> My menus are also now slower than before and it takes about 30 seconds to populate the To Do List.


That happened on the S2 units too.

The RD folder doesn't 'remember' it's place well. If you're on the 5th line down of the 3 page when you return you'll return to the 5th line down of the FIRST page (the top).

It always sends you back to the top most page.

Annoying.


----------



## ZikZak

cwoody222 said:


> That happened on the S2 units too.


It never happened on my S2. Do you mean the dual tuners?


----------



## myosh_tino

I got the update yesterday and I rebooted last night to install the update. First impressions were that menu scrolling and navigating the guide was much faster than before. It also seems to be handling signal issues better. I was watching the Clippers/Suns game on TNTHD last night and I would notice occasional audio drop-outs and pixellation but instead of screwing up for 5-10 seconds, the picture and sound would recover almost instantly (within a second).

I've read the recent posts about the location of the Recently Deleted folder and, in my case, that folder has always been at the bottom the Now Playing list on my S2 and S3 (from what little time I've had the update).


----------



## Fofer

cwoody222 said:


> That happened on the S2 units too.
> 
> The RD folder doesn't 'remember' it's place well. If you're on the 5th line down of the 3 page when you return you'll return to the 5th line down of the FIRST page (the top).
> 
> It always sends you back to the top most page.
> 
> Annoying.


The Recently Deleted Items folder is also INCREDIBLY slow... I mean, astonishingly slow. I am pretty sure the list also starts at the "oldest recorded item," which I thought was a poor choice.

I'd rather it sort/start at the "most recently deleted," since those are the recordings I'd most likely want to recover after an accidental delete.


----------



## cwoody222

Nope, my single tuner S2.

Maybe it was fixed in a later software I never got? (I got rid of my S2 in October)

When did you get yours?


----------



## cwoody222

myosh_tino said:


> I've read the recent posts about the location of the Recently Deleted folder and, in my case, that folder has always been at the bottom the Now Playing list on my S2 and S3 (from what little time I've had the update).


No, we're talking about the location of the cursor IN the Recently Deleted folder after you move to the Right from that page and then move back to it.

(I did some Permanent Deletes last night... those stupid Welcome videos from October)


----------



## CraigHB

Got my 8.1 update installed. I'm still on a modem (haven't got around to putting my S3 on the household network yet) and it took about 3 hours for the update to download. On reboot, it took about 15 minutes to install.

Pretty happy with it so far. However, I did have one problem right after the install. I was getting heavy pixelation on one tuner with OTA HD channels. Signal strengths are in the 90's. I cycled power and everything was fine after that. Had me concerned there for a minute, but was relieved when a cold reboot fixed it.

BTW, I think the S3 boots in 480i to support SD TV's. I don't think we'll ever see a higher resolution format there. It shouldn't matter because any modern TV should support it on all inputs. Personally, I would avoid a TV that doesn't. 480i isn't going anywhere. Even after the digital conversion in a couple years, most stations will still use a portion of their bandwidth for auxilliary 480i channels. Some may not broadcast HD at all.


----------



## drew00001

In Seattle, Comcast's recent lineup change eliminated all the non-porn PPV movie channels the same day Tivo released update 8.1. I am curious if Comcast did this anywhere else. 

I expect some non-Tivo owners will be P.O.'d.


----------



## kucharsk

CraigHB said:


> BTW, I think the S3 boots in 480i to support SD TV's. I don't think we'll ever see a higher resolution format there. It shouldn't matter because any modern TV should support it on all inputs. Personally, I would avoid a TV that doesn't. 480i isn't going anywhere. Even after the digital conversion in a couple years, most stations will still use a portion of their bandwidth for auxilliary 480i channels. Some may not broadcast HD at all.


We've figured out that the HDMI output must use the selected format, while the component output appears to boot in 480i.

Many displays out there cannot do 480i over their digital inputs as it isn't a common digital format.

Obligatory rant: Every other HD device I've owned has supported a "modified native" mode where it converts all 480 to 480p, but will pass through 720p or 1080i as-is. Alas, with the S3 I have to pick 720p Hybrid or 1080i Hybrid and convert 720p to 1080i or 1080i to 720p.


----------



## ewilts

CraigHB said:


> Got my 8.1 update installed. I'm still on a modem (haven't got around to putting my S3 on the household network yet) and it took about 3 hours for the update to download.
> 
> BTW, I think the S3 boots in 480i to support SD TV's. I don't think we'll ever see a higher resolution format there. It shouldn't matter because any modern TV should support it on all inputs. Personally, I would avoid a TV that doesn't. 480i isn't going anywhere. Even after the digital conversion in a couple years, most stations will still use a portion of their bandwidth for auxilliary 480i channels. Some may not broadcast HD at all.


To solve the modem issues, look at Powerline Ethernet - relatively inexpensive and no cabling to run. I was up in about 5 minutes.

As for modern TVs not support 480i...actually many modern TVs *don't* support it on all inputs. See the many threads and postings about this.

.../Ed


----------



## Sy-

Am I the only person who has not received 8.1?


----------



## moyekj

cwoody222 said:


> (I did some Permanent Deletes last night... those stupid Welcome videos from October)


 I got rid of them too from RD but the darn things still show up permanently at the bottom of Recording History of the ToDo List.


----------



## ZikZak

cwoody222 said:


> Nope, my single tuner S2.
> 
> Maybe it was fixed in a later software I never got? (I got rid of my S2 in October)
> 
> When did you get yours?


Mine never did it since I bought it in September '02, I think.



> (I did some Permanent Deletes last night... those stupid Welcome videos from October)


TiVoShannan? Stupid??? You take that back!!


----------



## Bierboy

Sy- said:


> Am I the only person who has not received 8.1?


Yes.


----------



## Fofer

moyekj said:


> I got rid of them too from RD but the darn things still show up permanently at the bottom of Recording History of the ToDo List.


Is that seriously bothering you or are you joking? I can't tell.


----------



## squiredogs

My S3 was operating nearly perfectly since I got it (except the audio dropots when searching the guide). I got the update, and now my signal is breaking up like CRAZY!!! WTF??? I did a restart, but it's still happening. What do I do next?


----------



## George Cifranci

Sy- said:


> Am I the only person who has not received 8.1?


Have you tried to force a connection?


----------



## hookbill

Bierboy said:


> Yes.


I so wanted to say that!


----------



## Bierboy

hookbill said:


> I so wanted to say that!


What's your excuse? You're retired and I'm goofing off at work


----------



## BoyScout

hookbill said:


> I so wanted to say that!


I almost did before checking the subsequent replies. Just call me Smeek.


----------



## hookbill

Just for the heck of it I tried to download a show from TiVo Cast. While it still is not working I believe the message has changed. It now says "we are working real hard to make TiVoCast available for the S3 real soon."

I don't recall it saying that before. It probably won't launch until Pony or Jerry tell us firstl.


----------



## Fofer

BoyScout said:


> I almost did before checking the subsequent replies. Just call me Smeek.


Actually, by checking first and not posting as a result, you're the anti-smeek. 

Thanks for BoyScouting. :up:


----------



## fchaten

I understand that the new 8.1 update was to have resolved the issue of no audio on certain channels. There is one channel in my lineup that has no audio (good video), the Fox Movie Channel. Since this update didn't fix that issue, can someone tell me what that indicates as to why I am not getting the audio and if there is something intelligent I can tell the Brighthouse people when I call them. I haven't bothered to call them before because I was hoping that the software upgrade would fix it. Thanks


----------



## hookbill

fchaten said:


> I understand that the new 8.1 update was to have resolved the issue of no audio on certain channels. There is one channel in my lineup that has no audio (good video), the Fox Movie Channel. Since this update didn't fix that issue, can someone tell me what that indicates as to why I am not getting the audio and if there is something intelligent I can tell the Brighthouse people when I call them. I haven't bothered to call them before because I was hoping that the software upgrade would fix it. Thanks


I actually had some audio problems fixed before 8.1 on a couple channels just like your describing. But I don't understand why 8.1 didn't fix your audio problem as it was suppose to enable all formats of audio to be picked up by the S3.

In my case I got in touch with someone who worked in head end and they simply removed the problem formats that were on the audio stream. But would this work for you? It's hard to say. First it's tough to find someone at head end who will actually listen to you, and second it really should be fixed.

Try sending a pm to TiVoJerry about this and see if he can't offer you some assistance.


----------



## btwyx

squiredogs said:


> I got the update, and now my signal is breaking up like CRAZY!!!


OTA or cable? How's the signal strength?

There are a few reports of bad A/V off OTA channels after the update, tuning to a cable station and back seems to fix those.


----------



## moyekj

fchaten said:


> I understand that the new 8.1 update was to have resolved the issue of no audio on certain channels. There is one channel in my lineup that has no audio (good video), the Fox Movie Channel. Since this update didn't fix that issue, can someone tell me what that indicates as to why I am not getting the audio and if there is something intelligent I can tell the Brighthouse people when I call them. I haven't bothered to call them before because I was hoping that the software upgrade would fix it. Thanks


 From my understanding the specific audio issue that was fixed was that previously if the primary audio program stream was mpeg2 instead of AC3 the S3 could not handle it. With 8.1 update the S3 can now handle mpeg2 audio streams as well. If you talk to Brighthouse and actually reach someone technical in the know you should find out what format the primary audio stream is for that channel. Note that there could be multiple audio streams so it's the primary stream that matters.


----------



## hddude55

ZikZak said:


> That's interesting; I'm having a different problem with left-arrow from the RD folder. When I press left arrow to get out of it, I can always get back to Now Playing, with the cursor on the RD folder, but the folder itself ends up listed in the middle of NP instead of at the end.
> 
> My menus are also now slower than before and it takes about 30 seconds to populate the To Do List.


Please stop complaining about these many minor whatchamacallums, none of which is a bug. (Never refer to bugs when referring to series 3. You can call them b-words, which gets your point across without be overly critical and petty.) All of these microscopic, insignificant performance issues are no big deal. After all, series 3 is not merely an upgrade to series 2. It is an entirely new hardware/software configuration that is light years ahead of the rest of the competitors' technology and we should all be willing to shut our pieholes and patiently wait a year or two for series 3 to be brought up to series 2 standards. Also, one person's b-word is a good thing to others, at least those of us who worship at the TIVO altar. For example, I have found the slow boat to China speed -- I hope that isn't racist? -- of the Search by Title in series 3 is actually a good thing, as it gives me time to go to the crapper and to cook a gourmet meal between entering each letter of each title. Now please stop criticizing TIVO...or else!!


----------



## Roderigo

fchaten said:


> I understand that the new 8.1 update was to have resolved the issue of no audio on certain channels. There is one channel in my lineup that has no audio (good video), the Fox Movie Channel. Since this update didn't fix that issue, can someone tell me what that indicates as to why I am not getting the audio and if there is something intelligent I can tell the Brighthouse people when I call them. I haven't bothered to call them before because I was hoping that the software upgrade would fix it. Thanks


What does it show when you select the Dolby icon from the banner?

TiVoJerry described what you're most likely seeing in his comment about this particular fix:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4811900&&#post4811900

So, I think moyekj is actually incorrect - if there's an AC3 track, the S3 will pick that one (even if there isn't any valid audio on it).


----------



## hookbill

hddude55 said:


> Please stop complaining about these many minor whatchamacallums, none of which is a bug. (Never refer to bugs when referring to series 3. You can call them b-words, which gets your point across without be overly critical and petty.) All of these microscopic, insignificant performance issues are no big deal. After all, series 3 is not merely an upgrade to series 2. It is an entirely new hardware/software configuration that is light years ahead of the rest of the competitors' technology and we should all be willing to shut our pieholes and patiently wait a year or two for series 3 to be brought up to series 2 standards. Also, one person's b-word is a good thing to others, at least those of us who worship at the TIVO altar. For example, I have found the slow boat to China speed -- I hope that isn't racist? -- of the Search by Title in series 3 is actually a good thing, as it gives me time to go to the crapper and to cook a gourmet meal between entering each letter of each title. Now please stop criticizing TIVO...or else!!


There's only one persons pie hole I wish would shut, and it wasn't the dude you quoted.


----------



## moyekj

Roderigo said:


> What does it show when you select the Dolby icon from the banner?
> 
> TiVoJerry described what you're most likely seeing in his comment about this particular fix:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4811900&&#post4811900
> 
> So, I think moyekj is actually incorrect - if there's an AC3 track, the S3 will pick that one (even if there isn't any valid audio on it).


 Thanks for the link. I think I'm mostly correct - previously the S3 did not support mpeg2 audio and that's now been fixed. The part I didn't know about is what TivoJerry mentions in that thread - the S3 will still look for AC3 track first if available, and if it's a blank stream then you will still have no audio. So looks like the only way to resolve those cases is via your cable company (or indirectly through Tivo).


----------



## TiVoJerry

moyekj said:


> Thanks for the link. I think I'm mostly correct - previously the S3 did not support mpeg2 audio and that's now been fixed. The part I didn't know about is what TivoJerry mentions in that thread - the S3 will still look for AC3 track first if available, and if it's a blank stream then you will still have no audio. So looks like the only way to resolve those cases is via your cable company (or indirectly through Tivo).


That is correct.


----------



## Fofer

hookbill said:


> There's only one persons pie hole I wish would shut, and it wasn't the dude you quoted.


Oh c'mon hookbill, I thought his post was rather amusing.


----------



## ingenue007

mine finally updated. i had mine using phone line for the past week+ since my router died. so it seems like the update was downloaded and not activated until tivo sent a command to activate it.


----------



## rjom

Fofer said:


> What's your new System Version?


8.1.1-01-2-648


----------



## Mike Farrington

I just wanted to report that after about 40 hours of operation with 8.1.1, the speed at which program information appears for recorded shows is great. It used to take up to a second for a program's details to pop up onto the screen. Now it comes up without delay.


----------



## Fofer

rjom said:


> 8.1.1-01-2-648


Same here, and I just got one update (that I know of.) Strange.


----------



## Fofer

Mike Farrington said:


> I just wanted to report that after about 40 hours of operation with 8.1.1, the speed at which program information appears for recorded shows is great. It used to take up to a second for a program's details to pop up onto the screen. Now it comes up without delay.


Mine as well, after many hours of testing.

When I get a chance to upload a comparison video, I'd like to... the improvement is drastic and quite interesting to see.

While I would have liked for it to be fast from the outset (and the navigation within folders in 8.1 still could be better...) my #1 complaint with the S3 has been addressed.

So, thanks TiVo!


----------



## squiredogs

btwyx said:


> OTA or cable? How's the signal strength?
> 
> There are a few reports of bad A/V off OTA channels after the update, tuning to a cable station and back seems to fix those.


Comcast digital cable. My picture and sound were 100% perfect until the update. The signal strength says 100%. Should I unplug the unit, and plug it back in? I never had a cablecard problem from day 1 either...

I've only done the system reset via the menus, nothing else yet. Thanks for answering, I know there's a lot of people talking about a lot of things -

Edit: after reading the OTA 8.1 thread, they aredescribing exactly what I'm getting on several cable channels - random rectangular pixelization, and audio dropouts that weren't present pre-8.1 I don't have any OTA to switch to to attempt their "fix"


----------



## xtoph

I haven't been following this thread and was unaware an update was pending (or else I'd have been connecting like mad as well!)

This morning most of my channels were gone on both tuners. Only low-digit locals still worked, everything else showed the wrong thing or a blank screen.

I rebooted to see if it would fix the problem and it did the system update; must have been pending restart unbeknownst to me.

After the reboot I also get the local HD channels, but nothing non-local.

Second and third reboots, same results.

Comcast, Motorola cards, no previous problems, bought my S3 during first week of availability.

It's got to be just a coincidence, right? Since the problem manifested itself before the update had installed, and none of the rest of you had a problem?

Comcast CSR "sent a signal" to no avail; service appt tomorrow morning... Blah. 

(PS: I read every post in this thread but only did a cursory scan of the rest of the board, so if there's already a thread about this I apologize.)


----------



## retired_guy

squiredogs said:


> Comcast digital cable. My picture and sound were 100% perfect until the update. The signal strength says 100%. Should I unplug the unit, and plug it back in? I never had a cablecard problem from day 1 either...
> 
> I've only done the system reset via the menus, nothing else yet. Thanks for answering, I know there's a lot of people talking about a lot of things -
> 
> Edit: after reading the OTA 8.1 thread, they aredescribing exactly what I'm getting on several cable channels - random rectangular pixelization, and audio dropouts that weren't present pre-8.1 I don't have any OTA to switch to to attempt their "fix"


I'm having the same problem with Comcast HD; I saw it on an NBC HD program I recorded last night. 8.1.1 seems to have created a problem I didn't have before.


----------



## kd_cooke

TiVoJerry said:


> Yes it does.


Are we certain that this is fixed??? I still have no audio on the National Geographic Channel. I had assumed that the culprit was due to decoding of the audio information; and that it would be addressed with this S3 update. However, no dice. It is still the one and only channel that does not get any audio...

Argghhhh!


----------



## squiredogs

I just unplugged the S3. I'm pretty disgusted right now. American Idol got worse as the show went on (the pixelization and dropouts too!) I hope this expensive box isn't effed, I already transferred my lifetime. Of all the TiVo's I've had, I've never experienced anything like this - that's why I pad the big $$$ for it. I really hope this gets fixed without me having to thry to exchange it, or involve Comcast.


----------



## hookbill

squiredogs said:


> I just unplugged the S3. I'm pretty disgusted right now. American Idol got worse as the show went on (the pixelization and dropouts too!) I hope this expensive box isn't effed, I already transferred my lifetime. Of all the TiVo's I've had, I've never experienced anything like this - that's why I pad the big $$$ for it. I really hope this gets fixed without me having to thry to exchange it, or involve Comcast.


Mine works perfectly. How did you receive your HD before?


----------



## drew00001

Bierboy said:


> What's your excuse? You're retired and I'm goofing off at work


Ahh, that explains it: Hook is retired. I knew there was an explanation. 

I am also goofing off at work. Unfortunately, I work for myself, so this is not a good thing.


----------



## PVR

My S3 did what others described today... I noticed that all my digital HD channels were blank today, so I tried a full power cycle, and saw that my system was updating itself.

Now it is back up and running and (so far) everything seems OK, but it was a rather odd co-incidence that I lost the ability to watch channels just as the TiVo update arrived.

Also, note - Comcast called me last week and said they needed more info on my cable cards. I had to read off a bunch of pairing codes from the cablecard diagnostic menus. I think they originally initialized them as "not paired" because their system wasn't ready to pair them yet. (So I probably could have moved the cable cards to another receiver and had them still work). But now, I suspect that they have updated them to be paired with the S3 for better "security".

So, I don't know if it was Comcast or TiVo's fault for the temporary loss of channels, but both have been making software updates to my system (S3 & Cable cards) this week.

(Even before the update) I have been noticing some occasional picture breakups and picture glitches that weren't there when I first got set up before Christmas. It seems to happen mostly on particular channels like UHD & INHD/Mojo. I am going to guess that this is a Comcast problem, not TiVo, but I can't be sure.


----------



## squiredogs

hookbill said:


> Mine works perfectly. How did you receive your HD before?


The S3 and cablecards are my first HD source (I upgraded to HD with the S3) Was previously flawless. No OTA.

I'm up to "Organizing" on the Getting Program Info page of the Guided Setup. My first (intentional or otherwise) reboot of my 7 week old S3


----------



## Roderigo

kd_cooke said:


> Are we certain that this is fixed??? I still have no audio on the National Geographic Channel. I had assumed that the culprit was due to decoding of the audio information; and that it would be addressed with this S3 update. However, no dice. It is still the one and only channel that does not get any audio...
> 
> Argghhhh!


Check out TiVoJerry's post about this problem.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4811900&&#post4811900

There's still one case where the S3 will fail even with this release. If you're watching live, you should be able to change the audio track, but this doesn't help recordings. Chances are your cable company is going to have to fix this.


----------



## mattack

ZikZak said:


> That's interesting; I'm having a different problem with left-arrow from the RD folder. When I press left arrow to get out of it, I can always get back to Now Playing, with the cursor on the RD folder, but the folder itself ends up listed in the middle of NP instead of at the end.


I only got the new update this morning, and rebooted it to try it out for a min or two before going to work.

This issue is really annoying. Since I suspect I'll rarely go into the recently deleted folder, it probably won't be much of an issue.. but in my case, going left out of the RD folder would put the RD folder/cursor at the bottom of the top page, rather than at the very bottom. Then I think the first thing you do after that makes it jump to the bottom, or something else very weird.

Cosmetic bug that I'm surprised was ever allowed to ship.


----------



## hookbill

Fofer said:


> Oh c'mon hookbill, I thought his post was rather amusing.


Yeah, I still can't stop laughing. Problem is this dude really believes that's the way we think.


----------



## johngettler

FYI - In addition to rjom, I have also now seen this odd situation where even though I received the 8.1.1-01-2-648 way back on the first day available (Feb 12), I turned on my s3 tonight, and got the same text message that my system software was just updated.

When I check the system info, it still reports the same 8.1.1-01-2-648. Everything else seems ok. Strange though. Does TivoPony or TiVoJerry have any idea why some of us are receiving two updates? This must be a bug somewhere. Makes me nervous.


----------



## JamieP

johngettler said:


> FYI - In addition to rjom, I have also now seen this odd situation where even though I received the 8.1.1-01-2-648 way back on the first day available (Feb 12), I turned on my s3 tonight, and got the same text message that my system software was just updated.
> 
> When I check the system info, it still reports the same 8.1.1-01-2-648. Everything else seems ok. Strange though. Does TivoPony or TiVoJerry have any idea why some of us are receiving two updates? This must be a bug somewhere. Makes me nervous.


This happens with most tivo software releases. The first people who get the release get a version that still has the "beta" string in it (e.g. 8.1.1.S1). A week or so later, they push out the true final release without the beta string (e.g. 8.1.1). TiVoPony (or was it TiVoOpsMgr?) has posted an explanation before, which you might be able to find via search.


----------



## PaulRuby

I got the update today. And now the audio over hdmi does not work with my philips 50PF7320A. Dang it. It works for 10 seconds and goes silent. If I switch the TV to something other than tivo (different input) and come back, I get audio for 10 seconds again. This worked fine yesterday. The update occurred today, and now it doesn't.

I know the other geeks out there (like me) will say it's the TV's fault because I can make the audio come back by switching away and returning. That is proof the audio is on the cable. But it's too much of a coincidence that it stopped working in perfect coincidence with the update. What changed in the hdmi protocols to do this???


----------



## kongjie

Something slightly odd happened on the way to my update.

The wife called me at work to complain that Tivo hadn't recorded her soaps. She read some kind of message about there not being a cable connection. 

When I got home I figured I was in for a night of tech support after a day of the same trying to remove trojan-download-zlob from a PC. Sure enough only a couple of network channels were showing and all other channels were black.

So I did a restart and it cycled through at least 2-3 restarts. But the update screen showed up and 8.1 loaded. By the time I was back from the grocery store it was up and running and seems fine. Moving through the guide is much faster than before.

Only glitch I can see, and I'll have to investigate this, is that the key I had set up on my Harmony for clear--to get rid of the info screen faster--is inexplicably going to live TV.

Thanks for the update, Tivo. Great to have recently deleted folder back.


----------



## PaulRuby

PaulRuby said:


> I got the update today. And now the audio over hdmi does not work with my philips 50PF7320A. Dang it. It works for 10 seconds and goes silent. If I switch the TV to something other than tivo (different input) and come back, I get audio for 10 seconds again. This worked fine yesterday. The update occurred today, and now it doesn't.
> 
> I know the other geeks out there (like me) will say it's the TV's fault because I can make the audio come back by switching away and returning. That is proof the audio is on the cable. But it's too much of a coincidence that it stopped working in perfect coincidence with the update. What changed in the hdmi protocols to do this???


I just pulled this from the Philips web site:



> "Note: Due to legal requirements, it is possible that with certain copy protected PCM audio qualities from a device connected to the HDMI input, the DIGITAL AUDIO OUTPUT signal is muted."


Has the Tivo now changed in such a way that this copy protection BS is now fouling my ability to listen to my own freaking TV???!!!


----------



## Marduk

Update went well, no big problems.

One question, though, 

I tried to find the Tivocasts, and could not find it anywhere. Do I have to go online and activate it or something?


----------



## hookbill

Marduk said:


> Update went well, no big problems.
> 
> One question, though,
> 
> I tried to find the Tivocasts, and could not find it anywhere. Do I have to go online and activate it or something?


I'm reading on anther thread that it is working. Let me check


----------



## aaronwt

I see the TiVoCast online but I don't see it on the S3 like you do with the S2 machines.


----------



## cwoody222

The answer about TiVoCast has been repeated here many times already.


I rebooted manually once with 8.1 and my menus are still slow  Not unusable slow but still noticably slower than before. Especially the ToDo List.

My OTA reception seems worse too. It could just be coincidence (my antenna's not perfect and I could be having some weather related dropouts lately) but maybe not. I'm gonna keep watching it.

Yesterday I had an hour recording from an analog channel (direct coax into TiVo, no digital cable box or anything) that was having pixelation and dropped audio (just a second here and there). This is my daily soap which I record every day and have never seen that happen before.

Since it's an analog channel I can only assume the pixelation was due to TiVo, not the signal, right?


----------



## Maeglin

hookbill said:


> I'm reading on anther thread that it is working. Let me check


It seems to be at least half working. I can schedule a TiVoCast download, but a forced connection doesn't do anything with that (no blue LED, nothing showing up on the box, etc.). Hopefully it'll be 100% by the end of the day, if it's this far right now.


----------



## hookbill

aaronwt said:


> I see the TiVoCast online but I don't see it on the S3 like you do with the S2 machines.


I don't either. I tried to download a clip and it looked successful but I don't see it on my now playing list.


----------



## Marduk

How do you tivocast then? I can see it on my S2, but not on the S3. Do you do this online?


----------



## randywalters

mattack said:


> This issue is really annoying. Since I suspect I'll rarely go into the recently deleted folder, it probably won't be much of an issue.. but in my case, going left out of the RD folder would put the RD folder/cursor at the bottom of the top page, rather than at the very bottom. Then I think the first thing you do after that makes it jump to the bottom, or something else very weird. Cosmetic bug that I'm surprised was ever allowed to ship.


I actually like how exiting the RDF drops it onto the first page - now when i'm 10 pages down on my Now Playing List i can quickly open then close the RDF to instantly shoot me up to the first page 

This is much faster than hitting the Channel Up key 10 times :up:


----------



## Maeglin

cwoody222 said:


> Since it's an analog channel I can only assume the pixelation was due to TiVo, not the signal, right?


It depends. If the content was originally digital at the source and then converted to analog before sending over the wire then, well, you know...


----------



## dswallow

randywalters said:


> I actually like how exiting the RDF drops it onto the first page - now when i'm 10 pages down on my Now Playing List i can quickly open then close the RDF to instantly shoot me up to the first page
> 
> This is much faster than hitting the Channel Up key 10 times :up:


Pressing the ADVANCE button alternates between the end of the Now Playing list and the beginning of it.


----------



## randywalters

dswallow said:


> Pressing the ADVANCE button alternates between the end of the Now Playing list and the beginning of it.


Well i'll be darned. I did not know this - thanks !!


----------



## Bierboy

dswallow said:


> Pressing the ADVANCE button alternates between the end of the Now Playing list and the beginning of it.


I didn't know that either...cool tip. Works in the deleted folder, too.


----------



## hookbill

Maeglin said:


> It seems to be at least half working. I can schedule a TiVoCast download, but a forced connection doesn't do anything with that (no blue LED, nothing showing up on the box, etc.). Hopefully it'll be 100% by the end of the day, if it's this far right now.


Ugh!!!...It says it was on it's way but now most of you are saying "not so fast." And why can't we view mpeg films with the new preview 2.4 server.

I'm so disappointed.


----------



## Marduk

hookbill said:


> Ugh!!!...It says it was on it's way but now most of you are saying "not so fast." And why can't we view mpeg films with the new preview 2.4 server.
> 
> I'm so disappointed.


So,

On my message the added feature says Tivocast is added, but now it is saying coming soon? Where are you seeing this? I can not find this on the box. Where do you look?


----------



## Fofer

hookbill said:


> And why can't we view mpeg films with the new preview 2.4 server.


What is the "new preview 2.4 server?"


----------



## Fofer

Marduk said:


> So,
> 
> On my message the added feature says Tivocast is added, but now it is saying coming soon? Where are you seeing this? I can not find this on the box. Where do you look?


I just subscribed to a few TiVoCasts via my account on www.tivo.com
C/Net, Rocketboom, and NYTimes. I'll check my S3 (on 8.1) in a few minutes and see what's up.


----------



## aaronwt

I had 5 TiVoCasts on my machine this morning that I scheduled after midnight. I know it was downloading the first CNET episode I scheduled before I went to bed. The blue LED was on while it was downloading.


----------



## ReidWings

So, I finally got the 8.1 update yesterday and today my Tivo did something odd. It was recording 2 tivo suggestions while I was watching a HD recording. All of a sudden, it flipped back to live TV (I wasn't even near the remote) and both the suggested recordings stopped recording. It was at 10:40AM, in the middle of the recordings. Also, the partial recordings stayed in the suggestion list, which I expected to be gone since if you stop a suggested recording in the middle, it deletes. 

Anyone heard of anything like that before? Hopefully it was a one time thing.


----------



## Fofer

dswallow said:


> Pressing the ADVANCE button alternates between the end of the Now Playing list and the beginning of it.





Bierboy said:


> I didn't know that either...cool tip. Works in the deleted folder, too.


Tahnks bierboy (and dswallow.) That trick in the Deleted Folder is perfect. Especially since my drive is 750 GB and my deleted list is very, very long. And scrolling it is slow-as-molasses!

And for some reason TiVo made the silly decision to sort it by "date of recording" (oldest first) and not by "date deleted" (mot recent first.)

The ADVANCE button to skip to end will save me lots and lots of time. Over the course of my lifetime, at least 10-12 minutes. So thanks for that. More time to spend with my loved ones, yet-to-be-born children and grandchildren.


----------



## Roderigo

ReidWings said:


> So, I finally got the 8.1 update yesterday and today my Tivo did something odd. It was recording 2 tivo suggestions while I was watching a HD recording. All of a sudden, it flipped back to live TV (I wasn't even near the remote) and both the suggested recordings stopped recording. It was at 10:40AM, in the middle of the recordings. Also, the partial recordings stayed in the suggestion list, which I expected to be gone since if you stop a suggested recording in the middle, it deletes.
> 
> Anyone heard of anything like that before? Hopefully it was a one time thing.


Not sure about the partial suggested recordings, but what you probably saw was an Emergency Alert. There are other threads talking about behaviour when the box gets one of these messages.


----------



## Bierboy

Fofer said:


> Tahnks bierboy (and dswallow.) That trick in the Deleted Folder is perfect. Especially since my drive is 750 GB and my deleted list is very, very long. And scrolling it is slow-as-molasses!...


I hear you...my deleted folder holds anywhere from 80-100 shows depending on what's scheduled in my To Do List. This shortcut will come in handy.


----------



## George Cifranci

Fofer said:


> What is the "new preview 2.4 server?"


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=341754


----------



## Fofer

George Cifranci said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=341754


Thanks for that, it was the word "Server" that threw me. And since the preview of the new Desktop software has no Mac version yet, color me non-plussed for now.


----------



## Fofer

aaronwt said:


> I had 5 TiVoCasts on my machine this morning that I scheduled after midnight. I know it was downloading the first CNET episode I scheduled before I went to bed. The blue LED was on while it was downloading.


Does TiVoCast selection appear anywhere on the TiVo UI, like under "Find Programs" or "Music, Photos and Extras" (or whatever it's called.)


----------



## cokyq

Two days and 8.1 working fine for me, cablecards working ok, Dolby audio is fine. No pixelation, good picture. 

Search by time is still very slow, but using the guide for searches by time works just fine. 

... now waiting for TiVotogo!

-----------------------------------
S3 connected to Denon AV Receiver via Component cables and TOSLINK.


----------



## hiker

Fofer said:


> Does TiVoCast selection appear anywhere on the TiVo UI, like under "Find Programs" or "Music, Photos and Extras" (or whatever it's called.)


If you're asking where it appears after it is downloaded, I just tried one and it appeared in the NPL.


----------



## Poochie

Hopefully just a coincidence, but I'll be keeping an eye on this...

I got 8.1 two nights ago (yay!) and overall things seem fine. However, I did notice one thing I haven't noticed in the past. I recorded a hockey game on an analog channel 40 FSNBA ("Best" quality of course - and Comcast has not switched my area over to ADS yet), and during playback I saw all sorts of blocking and picture breakup. Prior to 8.1 I never saw such problems with recordings from this channel.

I'll compare my recollection of the output to the same recording on my S1 - why didn't I think of that last night? - but hopefully this is just a coincidence and not a regression in the handling of analog content. Anyone else notice differences, either good or bad, with recording of analog cable channels since getting 8.1?


----------



## OC7

Fofer said:


> Does TiVoCast selection appear anywhere on the TiVo UI, like under "Find Programs" or "Music, Photos and Extras" (or whatever it's called.)


It appears under Find Programs on the S2, but it's not there yet on my S3.

But, the Online TivoCast request just worked on my S3.


----------



## Fofer

hiker said:


> If you're asking where it appears after it is downloaded, I just tried one and it appeared in the NPL.


Yeah, just found the C|Net download there. Super cool! I'm excited about this new feature. 

I was asking specifically about this though:


OC7 said:


> It appears under Find Programs on the S2, but it's not there yet on my S3.
> 
> But, the Online TivoCast request just worked on my S3.


Same deal here. Looking forward to seeing it "officially" arrive... and would love to see more content available to choose from, too. Would be great if TiVo opened this up so anyone could create a video podcast we could subscribe to.


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

Got 8.1 yesterday, and noticed something just now that I believe is new. On the channel banner, top right corner, under clock is the Channel Label (ESPNHD). Under that label, is the channel number. It shows 211 cbl. I assume this means a cable channel, as opposed to OTA. Is this new, or was this there before?


----------



## SugarBowl

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Got 8.1 yesterday, and noticed something just now that I believe is new. On the channel banner, top right corner, under clock is the Channel Label (ESPNHD). Under that label, is the channel number. It shows 211 cbl. I assume this means a cable channel, as opposed to OTA. Is this new, or was this there before?


It's been there.


----------



## squiredogs

squiredogs said:


> I just unplugged the S3. I'm pretty disgusted right now. American Idol got worse as the show went on (the pixelization and dropouts too!) I hope this expensive box isn't effed, I already transferred my lifetime. Of all the TiVo's I've had, I've never experienced anything like this - that's why I pad the big $$$ for it. I really hope this gets fixed without me having to thry to exchange it, or involve Comcast.


Problems with pixelization and audio stuttering still bad today. Do I send this POS to TiVo under warranty? Is it possible that the update wrecked my hard drive??? Can I get a refund for the unit and my lifetime? I'm within the 90 days, but not the 30 days (I bought from the Community Store)


----------



## ScottUrman

Fofer said:


> Same deal here. Looking forward to seeing it "officially" arrive... and would love to see more content available to choose from, too. Would be great if TiVo opened this up so anyone could create a video podcast we could subscribe to.


That's coming. See this link among others. Or this link which is the official Tivo press release about it.


----------



## bifsiff94

Poochie said:


> Hopefully just a coincidence, but I'll be keeping an eye on this...
> 
> I got 8.1 two nights ago (yay!) and overall things seem fine. However, I did notice one thing I haven't noticed in the past. I recorded a hockey game on an analog channel 40 FSNBA ("Best" quality of course - and Comcast has not switched my area over to ADS yet), and during playback I saw all sorts of blocking and picture breakup. Prior to 8.1 I never saw such problems with recordings from this channel.
> 
> I'll compare my recollection of the output to the same recording on my S1 - why didn't I think of that last night? - but hopefully this is just a coincidence and not a regression in the handling of analog content. Anyone else notice differences, either good or bad, with recording of analog cable channels since getting 8.1?


I posted this in a different thread, but I started experiencing significant pixellation on an HD channel after the 8.1 update. I don't think the problem is specific to just analog channels.


----------



## cwoody222

Houston, looks like we have a problem? *sigh*

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4897090&&#post4897090


----------



## Brainiac 5

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Under that label, is the channel number. It shows 211 cbl. I assume this means a cable channel, as opposed to OTA. Is this new, or was this there before?





SugarBowl said:


> It's been there.


Or rather, it's been there for some people. It was there before if you set the S3 up for both cable and antenna. However, if you set up for just cable, then it did not show the "cbl" after the channel number. With the update, it now shows the "cbl" regardless of whether or not you also have antenna. So it's new to people who never had their S3 configured for both cable and antenna.


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

Brainiac 5 said:


> Or rather, it's been there for some people. It was there before if you set the S3 up for both cable and antenna. However, if you set up for just cable, then it did not show the "cbl" after the channel number. With the update, it now shows the "cbl" regardless of whether or not you also have antenna. So it's new to people who never had their S3 configured for both cable and antenna.


Thanks for your post....a sign that I may actually NOT be losing my mind!


----------



## Fofer

ScottUrman said:


> That's coming. See this link among others. Or this link which is the official Tivo press release about it.


Cool! Initially when I made my post was thinking about standard video podcasts like MacBreak (recorded in beautiful HD!) Then again, that'd be better served as a "real" TiVoCast, yes?

Still, this looks cool too. I wonder if professionals with high production values will sign up for this "One True Media" service. Can't wait to see that roll out. I remember hearing about it last year, didn't think much of it because I didn't yet have an S3. I think it paves the way for us to see lots of unique new content from amateurs, though.

Heh, seeing the phrase "home movies" make me start to wonder just HOW... um... "unique" that content might be...


----------



## Poochie

cwoody222 said:


> Houston, looks like we have a problem? *sigh*
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4897090&&#post4897090


Ah, didn't see your earlier mention of the analog recording issue. I should be able to tell later tonight if this is a problem in my S3 or if it was just a transmission problem from Comcast's end - I believe I have the exact same recording on my S1 - both direct coax, no cable box there either, just a (high-bandwidth) splitter so the S1 and S3 can share the pipe.

In my case, I don't think I ever lost audio. I also never "checked back" (rewound) to see if it was a transient playback issue or a permanent issue with playback or the recording itself. Maybe I can fish it out of my "recently deleted" folder.


----------



## cokyq

Fofer,

Could you advise how you get MACBREAK down on your S3?

Thanks in advance


----------



## Fofer

cokyq said:


> Fofer,
> 
> Could you advise how you get MACBREAK down on your S3?


I could if I did... but I haven't, so I can't. 

I was _hoping_ something like TiVoCast or a new TiVoGoBack or some new TIVoDesktop, something/anything official from TiVo, or even some third-party hack would allow me to get it going on an S3. For now it's just a pipe dream, and I watch it on my laptop. I suspect in time I'll hook an AppleTV or Mac mini up to my HDTV though, to fill in these gaps that TiVo seems slow to fill.


----------



## cokyq

Thanks anyway. 

On a similar topic, I like listening to MacOSKen podcast. But when I tried to hear it with the TIVO it will not stream it.


----------



## Poochie

A follow-on to my reported analog channel problem - I'm now beginning to think it's NOT related to the 8.1 update in my case, but rather was just an unfortunately-timed coincidence.

I recorded the Sharks game on the same analog channel tonight (FSNBA, channel 40 on my lineup) on both my S1 and my S3. While watching the game tonight (timeshifted, not live), with 13:40 left in the first period, during a stoppage of play, there was pixelation on my S3. So I switched over to the S1 between periods, found the same spot. Lo and behold, there was pixelation there too. So maybe my signal is now weak, or perhaps FSNBA is having transmission problems, but at least now I'm fairly certain that the update didn't degrade the analog channels.

I did re-watch the offending section. The pixelated mess was repeatable, so it wasn't a transient playback issue. That also seems consistent with a weak signal or issue on the FSNBA side. Guess it's time to probe the SF Bay Area Comcast thread on AVS to see if anyone else saw these glitches or if I'm the only lucky one...


----------



## cokyq

Anyone knows if 8.1 release is complete? Or are there still units pending receipt of the update? Just curious...


----------



## HTRon

Hi - I have a question for everyone that has received 8.1, and had this problem before...I received 8.1 a couple of days ago, and I was hoping it would fix the black screen/mute problem, but no such luck. I get a black screen and no sound for 3 to 15 seconds or so, even on the pre-loaded "tour your tivo" videos. Has anyone else seen this after 8.1?

Thanks,
Ron


----------



## cwoody222

The pixelation of my analog (direct coax) happened again on Thursday's recording. Same show, same channel as Wed's problem.

I'll have to watch some other analog-recorded shows this weekend to see if it is more common. I have some recorded before and after 8.1.

I also set up to record the show on Friday on my ReplayTV (thru digital cable box but still an analog channel) and on the OTA channel on the S3.

I should add I watched some OTA HD last night and it was fine. (a brief pixelation during two shows but I blame my antenna)


----------



## cwoody222

On TiVoCast... it still doesn't appear anywhere ON my TiVo but I subscribed to a few via online yesterday afternoon and I had them on my unit when I got home last night.

Already got my 2nd Rocketboom this morning.

Strangely I also got the "Best Bets by EW" GuruGuide... something I had signed up for with my S2 which isn't even in my name any more.


----------



## RichB

Now that we have TiVocast, it would be great if we could download the basic THX setup patterns found on Disney DVDs to calibrate our displays. This is required to do any basic calibration of the display with TiVo.

- Rich


----------



## SCSIRAID

RichB said:


> Now that we have TiVocast, it would be great if we could download the basic THX setup patterns found on Disney DVDs to calibrate our displays. This is required to do any basic calibration of the display with TiVo.
> 
> - Rich


That is a great idea. Perhaps a PM to TivoJerry can plant that seed. A Pluge pattern and a couple grey scale fields would be perfect.


----------



## Mike Farrington

SCSIRAID said:


> That is a great idea. Perhaps a PM to TivoJerry can plant that seed. A Pluge pattern and a couple grey scale fields would be perfect.


I have to imagine that since TiVo had dealings in getting the THX certification, that this should be a simple feat. Lets cross our fingers.

On a related note: It would be nice if Amazon Unbox could provide a PPV version of that super-expensive calibration DVD (at full quality) for like $25. It would expire within 24 hours of viewing.


----------



## Fofer

Now that 8.1 is on my S3, and has improved the menu speed and given me the Recently Deleted folder, I have to say... I love the TiVoCasts too! Such a cool feature and I really hope more content providers come on board.

Great update. Thanks again, TiVo.


----------



## cwoody222

My menus are still slow 

Fofer... didn't you have an S2? They have had TiVoCasts for awhile.


----------



## Fofer

cwoody222 said:


> My menus are still slow
> 
> Fofer... didn't you have an S2? They have had TiVoCasts for awhile.


My "series 2's" were in the form of heavily modified DirecTiVo's, running 6.2. So I had the home media option (music and photos,) MRV and lots of other fun hacks... but no TiVoCast stuff.


----------



## Dimarc67

I discovered when I got home from work yesterday that I'd received the 8.1.1 update (upgrading from 8.0). Unfortunately, I also discovered that the occasional audio cut-out accompanied by momentary pixelation is not only still there, but has actually _worsened_. Before the update, the audio would drop a second or two at most, with a blip of minor pixelation. After the udpate, the audio cuts out for 2-5 seconds with major pixelation freeze and distortion before correcting.

There is no correlation to channel or time of day, and shows simultaneously recorded on my Pioneer S2 show no issues at all.

Is there no further information on this??

Dimarc67
NYC


----------



## hopefulboydy

> Anyone knows if 8.1 release is complete? Or are there still units pending receipt of the update? Just curious...


I still havent had the update as of 8am (pacific) this morning.

Although I just got my VIP lifetime transfer to show up. It only took them from December 21st to get that done.... so who knows when my update will arrive.


----------



## pl1

hopefulboydy said:


> I still havent had the update as of 8am (pacific) this morning. Although I just got my VIP lifetime transfer to show up. It only took them from December 21st to get that done.... so who knows when my update will arrive.


Sounds like it's right on the 60 day mark. TiVo says it can take up to 60 days to reflect on your account. Stupid I know. I think it should show immediately myself.


----------



## srea

pl1 said:


> Sounds like it's right on the 60 day mark. TiVo says it can take up to 60 days to reflect on your account. Stupid I know. I think it should show immediately myself.


I think they wait 60 days to do the transfer, maybe in case something goes wrong or is invalid. I know the rebate hustlers work that way. Many of my rebates get mailed almost exactly on the day the rebate specified (up to 8 weeks, or some such) that's assuming they actual send the rebate. I also have had Amazon returns do the same thing. "It may take up to x weeks", sure enough at x weeks there it is.


----------



## pl1

srea said:


> I think they wait 60 days to do the transfer, maybe in case something goes wrong or is invalid. I know the rebate hustlers work that way. Many of my rebates get mailed almost exactly on the day the rebate specified (up to 8 weeks, or some such) that's assuming they actual send the rebate. I also have had Amazon returns do the same thing. "It may take up to x weeks", sure enough at x weeks there it is.


EXCEPT THAT, if you xfr a DirecTV TiVo it shows up instantly. They claim it is because the D*TiVo is not their equipment. They also claim it is to make sure you go past the 30 day return policy window. And the 60 day period is when you are allowed to cancel your old S1 or S2 1 yr contract. Although, those who have tried to cancel their old one before the year is up have been told there is an early termination fee. So, who really knows what the real reason is.


----------



## musictoo

Me too. Exactly.



Dimarc67 said:


> I discovered when I got home from work yesterday that I'd received the 8.1.1 update (upgrading from 8.0). Unfortunately, I also discovered that the occasional audio cut-out accompanied by momentary pixelation is not only still there, but has actually _worsened_. Before the update, the audio would drop a second or two at most, with a blip of minor pixelation. After the udpate, the audio cuts out for 2-5 seconds with major pixelation freeze and distortion before correcting.
> 
> There is no correlation to channel or time of day, and shows simultaneously recorded on my Pioneer S2 show no issues at all.
> 
> Is there no further information on this??
> 
> Dimarc67
> NYC


----------



## cwoody222

Analog content is still pixelating here for me 

Seems to be limited to shows recorded AFTER the update. It even happened on Rocketboom and CNet TiVoCast downloads!!!

It never happens on HD at all, just analog.

Seems to only happen in the later half or so of a recording. Seems sometimes FF or REW (but not 30sec or 7 sec skipping) makes it a bit better but never fixed it completely.

Some shows are worse than others... it basically is a split second pixelation accompanied by an audio dropout. Can happen every 30 seconds or every few minutes... it's random.


----------



## Dimarc67

Dimarc67 said:


> I discovered when I got home from work yesterday that I'd received the 8.1.1 update (upgrading from 8.0). Unfortunately, I also discovered that the occasional audio cut-out accompanied by momentary pixelation is not only still there, but has actually _worsened_. Before the update, the audio would drop a second or two at most, with a blip of minor pixelation. After the udpate, the audio cuts out for 2-5 seconds with major pixelation freeze and distortion before correcting.


Called TiVo support. They were quick to offer to replace the unit. I asked if there was a reasonable expectation that the new unit would not suffer the same problem, since many owners have complained about this both before and after the update, but they said they feel a new unit shouldn't be troubled so.

Will report back after the swap to the new unit.

Dimarc67
NYC


----------



## wmcbrine

cwoody222 said:


> Analog content is still pixelating here for me
> 
> Seems to be limited to shows recorded AFTER the update. It even happened on Rocketboom and CNet TiVoCast downloads!!!
> 
> It never happens on HD at all, just analog.


I think you mean "SD" (standard definition), not "analog", no? Clearly TivoCasts aren't analog.


----------



## btwyx

wmcbrine said:


> I think you mean "SD" (standard definition), not "analog", no? Clearly TivoCasts aren't analog.


That would explain that. I saw the analog bit and ignored the rest of the post.


----------



## cwoody222

Yea, sorry, I guess I meant SD. Basically anything that's not coming from my OTA HD source.


----------



## cokyq

Guess i am one of the lucky ones, my S3 is running w/o any problems, before and after the update! TiVo Casts are working fine too, I like the CNet ones.

Hope those of you with problems find a solution soon!


----------



## mbernste

cokyq said:


> Guess i am one of the lucky ones, my S3 is running w/o any problems, before and after the update! TiVo Casts are working fine too, I like the CNet ones.
> 
> Hope those of you with problems find a solution soon!


When did TiVo Cast become available for the S3? I have 8.1 and no TiVo Cast yet.


----------



## cokyq

Go online and make sure you turn on download video in your account.

Then go to TiVo Online and pick the TiVo cast you want to download. It will show up on your TiVo. subscribe to a season pass TiVo cast and you will get them as they become available.


----------



## Dimarc67

cokyq said:


> Guess i am one of the lucky ones, my S3 is running w/o any problems, before and after the update! TiVo Casts are working fine too, I like the CNet ones.


That's encouraging to hear. Thanks.


----------



## aaronwt

Dimarc67 said:


> That's encouraging to hear. Thanks.


I have three S3 boxes that are fine after 8.1 and were also fine before. I've downloaded over a dozen TiVoCasts since I set them up early Thursday morning.


----------



## CharlesH

cokyq said:


> Then go to TiVo Online and pick the TiVo cast you want to download. It will show up on your TiVo. subscribe to a season pass TiVo cast and you will get them as they become available.


That works fine, but the menu item on the TiVo itself which allows you to manage TiVoCast (including deleting subscriptions) is not there yet on the S3. On the S2, it is under Find Programs.


----------



## mbernste

cokyq said:


> Go online and make sure you turn on download video in your account.
> 
> Then go to TiVo Online and pick the TiVo cast you want to download. It will show up on your TiVo. subscribe to a season pass TiVo cast and you will get them as they become available.


I did all of that days ago. Only that has TiVo Cast in the menu is the S2, and I've had that for months.


----------



## malogus

Is anyone having copy protection issues after receiving the update? My normal channels seem to be ok, as well as my local HD stations (nbc, abc, fox, etc.), but alot of the other channels I get HD (MTV, ESPN2, Discovery, INHD, etc.) are all popping up the copy protection message. 

Also, I called Cox and was told they don't enable any copy protection, as this would also disable their DVR boxes as well. Seems like Tivo is going to be getting a call from me tomorrow. Actually, maybe not. I rebooted and the issue seems to be fixed. Still a bug though...


----------



## Dr. Bear

Dimarc67 said:


> Unfortunately, I also discovered that the occasional audio cut-out accompanied by momentary pixelation is not only still there, but has actually worsened. Before the update, the audio would drop a second or two at most, with a blip of minor pixelation. After the udpate, the audio cuts out for 2-5 seconds with major pixelation freeze and distortion before correcting.
> 
> 
> 
> Called TiVo support. They were quick to offer to replace the unit. I asked if there was a reasonable expectation that the new unit would not suffer the same problem, since many owners have complained about this both before and after the update, but they said they feel a new unit shouldn't be troubled so.
> 
> Will report back after the swap to the new unit.
> 
> Dimarc67
> NYC
Click to expand...

Audio drop-outs have gotten worse, not better, for me, too. But I don't want a new TiVo; everything else if finally working beautifully, and I don't want to jeopardize that with a new unit.

Have audio drop-outs gotten worse for anybody other than those who already mentioned it?


----------



## cwoody222

What's weird is that I watched 11 hours of SD content recorded today (Oscar stuff on E! and TV Guide and Amazing Race) and not a single pixelation/dropout.


----------



## Dr. Bear

I'm currently watching the Oscars, and there have been several drop outs, several seconds long.


----------



## aaronwt

No dropouts here.


----------



## Dimarc67

Dr. Bear said:


> Audio drop-outs have gotten worse, not better, for me, too. But I don't want a new TiVo; everything else if finally working beautifully, and I don't want to jeopardize that with a new unit.


"Everything else"? What else is there? It seems to me that audio and video periodically dropping out renders the entire product rediculously flawed and unusable.

I already owned a Series2 that worked fine when I bought the Series3 and transferred the lifetime subscription. Why in the world would anyone spend $1000 to buy a flawed unit to replace a working one, when the only improvement--namely, HD--is seriously undermined by a lack of basic function--namely stable and intact video and audio?

This concept is so basic to me that I find it bizarre to have to elaborate on it. Somebody tell me I'm not insane here.

Dimarc67
NYC


----------



## Fofer

mbernste said:


> I did all of that days ago. Only that has TiVo Cast in the menu is the S2, and I've had that for months.


You're missing the point. The menu isn't there yet on the S3 boxes yet. The only TiVoCastability we have so far is via the tivo.com website. I can only speak for myself, but I've subscribed to three TiVoCasts and gotten them all. I've also gone in and manually requested 9 older episodes from the C|Net TiVoCast and gotten those, too.


----------



## SCSIRAID

Dr. Bear said:


> Audio drop-outs have gotten worse, not better, for me, too. But I don't want a new TiVo; everything else if finally working beautifully, and I don't want to jeopardize that with a new unit.
> 
> Have audio drop-outs gotten worse for anybody other than those who already mentioned it?


I believe they have gotten worse too... However.. Human nature may be making me more 'sensitive' to them given the new firmware and my hope that they would be gone. I want to do some more 8300 vs Tivo comparison before getting too definitive.

I agree on the replacement issue. I dont want to start over unless Tivo says 'its bad hardware... replace it'. I really wish they would take a position on this instead of leaving us all 'dangling'.

I spoke with another person with the issue who happens to have two S3's. His experience pretty much kills the MPEG decoding theory. If he records the same stuff on both his S3's, both have the same signature dropout problem but NOT at the same place in the recordings. That seems to take it back to signal issues (which the 8300 experience tends to say isnt the case) or to 'performance' issues in the firmware or perhaps something else. Very frustrating.

I ordered an attenuator and am going to start messing with signal levels again.


----------



## Dr. Bear

Dimarc67 said:


> "Everything else"? What else is there? It seems to me that audio and video periodically dropping out renders the entire product rediculously flawed and unusable.


I used to get gray "contact your cable company" screens when I tuned into several of my digital SD channels. And my fast forwarding used to be seriously wonky, rendering it useless. (Yes, the 30-second skip is nice. I still prefer FF.) Neither of these is a problem now with the 8.1 upgrade. In addition, getting two cable cards to work during my initial set-up was a real hassle, requiring multiple cable company service visits and hours of my time. I do *not* want to have to start from scratch with a new unit.

However, the audio drop-outs have gotten worse since the upgrade _on the same S3 I was using before_. Ergo, it's not the unit. It's the software.

*Dimarc67*, I'm not saying it isn't a serious problem. It is. But shipping me a new TiVo isn't the solution I want the company to come up with.


----------



## JimPa

Yesterday, I found that I had to reprogram the 30 second skip. Which isn't a problem, but it did made me curious.

This happened after the 8.1 update early last week. Did they do a second update late in the week also?


----------



## fergiej

My audio drop outs have gotten much better. I've noticed far fewer than I had before. I didn't have many to begin with, maybe 1 or 2 per show, if that. Now, it's different. When I do have the problem, I get the pixellation, but the audio plays straight through the glitch.


----------



## Fofer

JimPa said:


> Yesterday, I found that I had to reprogram the 30 second skip. Which isn't a problem, but it did made me curious.


Obvious question: did your unit reboot for any reason? Even a brief power outage in your area when you weren't home? Because the 30 second skip has to be reprogrammed after every reboot.


----------



## Dr. Bear

I just called customer support regarding my audio drop outs (no image pixellation, just a multi-second loss of sound). He suggested it could be a bad HDMI cable and that I should hook the TiVo to the TV with the red/blue/green audio/video cables that came with the S3. If that makes a difference, I'll certainly report back here.


----------



## driver49

So where exactly is this "TivoCast" feature to be found? 

I got the "Winter Update" about a week ago, and went through all the menus, but nowhere could I find a "TiVoCast" item that would allow me to watch web video through my TiVo S3. 

So, uh, what exactly is the secret code here? How does one actually activate/use this "TiVocast" feature? 

--PS


----------



## Dimarc67

Dr. Bear said:


> I just called customer support regarding my audio drop outs (no image pixellation, just a multi-second loss of sound). He suggested it could be a bad HDMI cable and that I should hook the TiVo to the TV with the red/blue/green audio/video cables that came with the S3. If that makes a difference, I'll certainly report back here.


 This wouldn't explain the issue that I and others here have experienced. When it's happened while I'm viewing, jumping back and reviewing the same moment in the video reveals the exact same cut-out and pixelation, so the program is being recorded with the flaw. HDMI cabling would have nothing to do with this.

That being said, I have noted that it's extremely easy to dislodge the HDMI cable from the back of the unit. This has happened to me several times when the unit was shifted even so little as a quarter inch while I was adjusting other cables in its vicinity.

Dimarc67
NYC


----------



## cwoody222

I don't think TiVoCast is ON our TiVo's yet... you have to do it via tivo.com for now.

Next time I see the pixelation I'll try using Component to see if that helps. But I doubt it.

I couldn't test my program from Friday that did it Wed and Thurs because I forgot to set up to record off the digital OTA instead. As expected, there were no breakups with that.


----------



## moscovitzd

I am experiencing multiple audio dropouts throughout new recordings post update. The audio dropouts are occasionally followed by video pixelation. I swapped out my HDMI cable as suggested by the Tivo CSR however this did not help. I rarely had audio dropouts prior to the update.


----------



## Dimarc67

moscovitzd said:


> I am experiencing multiple audio dropouts throughout new recordings post update. The audio dropouts are occasionally followed by video pixelation. I swapped out my HDMI cable as suggested by the Tivo CSR however this did not help. I rarely had audio dropouts prior to the update.


I'm stunned that TiVo would suggest this is a problem with HDMI cabling. If the audio/video flaw remains through recorded playback, then it's a physical _impossibility_ that the issue is the HDMI cabling.

Unless I'm missing something... Is it possible for an HDTV receiving audio/video via HDMI to produce audio/video pixelation from a poor HDMI cable connection with the video source??? This goes against my understanding of the technology. Somebody set me straight here, or back me up.

I'm also starting to wonder if maybe TiVo CSR's are actually confusing the term "cable", which is often used in coversation to refer to a cable-TV provider, and the HDMI cable. This might explain a CSR reporting that the pixelation issue is a "cable" problem--meaning a problem with the cable-TV provider.

Thoughts anyone?

Dimarc67
NYC


----------



## wrh30

Dimarc67 said:


> "Everything else"? What else is there? It seems to me that audio and video periodically dropping out renders the entire product rediculously flawed and unusable.
> 
> I already owned a Series2 that worked fine when I bought the Series3 and transferred the lifetime subscription. Why in the world would anyone spend $1000 to buy a flawed unit to replace a working one, when the only improvement--namely, HD--is seriously undermined by a lack of basic function--namely stable and intact video and audio?
> 
> This concept is so basic to me that I find it bizarre to have to elaborate on it. Somebody tell me I'm not insane here.
> 
> Dimarc67
> NYC


I couldnt have said it better!! Its amazing that more people are not that concerned with what I consider major. I called for a second time today to Tivo with my concerns and couldnt believe the CSR actually said this was the first time he has herd of audio drop outs? yeah right waisted my time doing a reboot to make it look like he was fixing it... As much as I like my Tivo I am still under my 30 day return and this is going back for a full refund. As far as I am concerned this is a 1000 dollar door stop.


----------



## wrh30

Dimarc67 said:


> I'm stunned that TiVo would suggest this is a problem with HDMI cabling. If the audio/video flaw remains through recorded playback, then it's a physical _impossibility_ that the issue is the HDMI cabling.
> 
> Unless I'm missing something... Is it possible for an HDTV receiving audio/video via HDMI to produce audio/video pixelation from a poor HDMI cable connection with the video source??? This goes against my understanding of the technology. Somebody set me straight here, or back me up.
> 
> I'm also starting to wonder if maybe TiVo CSR's are actually confusing the term "cable", which is often used in coversation to refer to a cable-TV provider, and the HDMI cable. This might explain a CSR reporting that the pixelation issue is a "cable" problem--meaning a problem with the cable-TV provider.
> 
> Thoughts anyone?
> 
> Dimarc67
> NYC


I have same audio video problem and I am only using a OTA antenna and yeah they are trying to suggest it could be a broadcast problem. I might believe this if there were not other reports of the same thing on cable channels, Also I am not using HDMI. I have tried s video and componet video. I dont have a HD set.


----------



## kucharsk

Dimarc67 said:


> I'm stunned that TiVo would suggest this is a problem with HDMI cabling. If the audio/video flaw remains through recorded playback, then it's a physical _impossibility_ that the issue is the HDMI cabling.


Why? HDMI transmits audio and video in digital format to the television.

Thus a bad HDMI cable could very easily result in video and audio dropouts.


----------



## moyekj

kucharsk said:


> Why? HDMI transmits audio and video in digital format to the television.
> 
> Thus a bad HDMI cable could very easily result in video and audio dropouts.


 A bad cable would exhibit pseudo-random behavior, not repeatable defects when re-playing the same segment. The repeatability implies that the defects are part of the recording itself and not the transmission medium to the TV.


----------



## Dr. Bear

wrh30 said:


> I couldnt have said it better!! Its amazing that more people are not that concerned with what I consider major. I called for a second time today to Tivo with my concerns and couldnt believe the CSR actually said this was the first time he has herd of audio drop outs? yeah right waisted my time doing a reboot to make it look like he was fixing it... As much as I like my Tivo I am still under my 30 day return and this is going back for a full refund. As far as I am concerned this is a 1000 dollar door stop.


I'm the poster to whom *Dimarc67* asked, "What else is there?" And I'll tell you: A heck of a lot.

Yes, the audio dropouts are a pain. But my first S3 wouldn't recognize the wireless adapter and had to be replaced. My second one wouldn't display several channels and had to be replaced. My third one took multiple cable cards and multiple visits from cable company techs before it started working. Getting a functioning system in place took so long that I don't want to start from scratch and risk running into any or all of those problems again.

Better to lose a few seconds of audio than to lose entire channels, to have no network connectivity or to have no functionality at all. This is especially true when my dropouts got worse after the software update, indicating to me that it's a software problem and can be fixed that way.


----------



## cwoody222

I had no breakups during my Monday recording of my soap which did it on Wed, Thurs last week. Fixed itself?!


----------



## bareyb

moscovitzd said:


> I am experiencing multiple audio dropouts throughout new recordings post update. The audio dropouts are occasionally followed by video pixelation. I rarely had audio dropouts prior to the update.


As much as I hate to say it... It SEEMS like the audio dropouts and pixelation have increased SOMEWHAT after the update. It would do it before on rare occassion, but so infrequently that I was sure it was a transmission problem. Now I'm not so sure. Still love the S3 but I have a feeling were going to see a service update soon... Seems like there's still a couple glitches. Time will tell.


----------



## squiredogs

Problems are now even worse with the pixelization and drop outs. I can't believe I have to try a cablecard replacement! The cable company is probably going to mark me as a "problem" customer... Still seems like an unlikely coincidence that the cards would fail the day of the update. Especially after they were perfect for 6 weeks beforehand.

I'm going to wait a few days to see if it gets better on it's own, but this is still aggrivating for the money I spent. If TiVo could tell me it was a software problem, I'm loyal enough to wait on a fix. I feel like I'm wasting time with calling Comcast over and over again if the problem isn't theirs.

During the many dropouts and pixelizing tonight, I looked at the signal strength on the diagnostics screen again. Level was mostly at 100, down to 94, and then turned to "-" and No Lock for a second. Then back to 94-100. HD and low # channels both affected. 

Can anyone think that this is an 8.1 problem? Is this something tthat can be fixed with an update????


----------



## moyekj

squiredogs said:


> Can anyone think that this is an 8.1 problem? Is this something tthat can be fixed with an update????


 It may be worth asking if they can target your S3 to roll back to the previous software version to see if the problem goes away. Surely they must have ability to do that just as they are able to get specific versions installed for beta testers. That would be a way to confirm for sure if 8.1 is the source of your problems or not.


----------



## squiredogs

moyekj said:


> It may be worth asking if they can target your S3 to roll back to the previous software version to see if the problem goes away. Surely they must have ability to do that just as they are able to get specific versions installed for beta testers. That would be a way to confirm for sure if 8.1 is the source of your problems or not.


That would be a great solution! I'll give it a week, I just called comcast and had them re=do the cablecards over the phone. Thanks.


----------



## Bierboy

TiVo does NOT do software "rollbacks."


----------



## mdchachi

I am also having an audio issue after the update but I don't see anybody else here with the same issue. The first time was the day after the update. I turned my tv on to find my audio had cut out completely from both live tv & recorded tv (however, the Tivo <bonk> sound effects still worked). After messing around a while, I rebooted and that solved the problem. Now again today it happened a second time. I turned on the tv in the middle of American Idol and there was no sound except for the Tivo sound effects. I rebooted and it solved the problem again. This time it had been recording and I discovered it had actually recorded the audio properly so it's only a playback issue. I'm using standard analog audio outputs, not digital audio. Anybody else experienced anything like this? s/w version: 8.1.1-01-2-648

Thanks.


----------



## cokyq

Something interested happened yesterday.

I was viewing a TiVO suggestion show and the audio was gone. Worried, I went to another show and it was fine. Only on that particular show did the audio was gone!!!

I will keep an eye open and see if it happens again.


----------



## redhat

JimPa said:


> Yesterday, I found that I had to reprogram the 30 second skip. Which isn't a problem, but it did made me curious.
> 
> This happened after the 8.1 update early last week. Did they do a second update late in the week also?


My 30 second skip stopped working after the update this weekend. I reprogrammed it again successfully. Now, today, it is gone again. I cannot restore it! Did TiVo intentionally kill off this *very* important feature or has it changed?


----------



## Fofer

redhat said:


> My 30 second skip stopped working after the update this weekend. I reprogrammed it again successfully. Now, today, it is gone again. I cannot restore it! Did TiVo intentionally kill off this *very* important feature or has it changed?


No, it's still there.

Play a recorded show, and very slowly and very deliberately, press the required keys:









It will work.


----------



## aaronwt

Or press the keys very quickly. It works either way.


----------



## pl1

aaronwt said:


> Or press the keys very quickly. It works either way.


I found I have to wait for the TiVo's remote control acknowledgement light to turn off in between each code in order for the S-P-S-3-0-S to take effect on my two S3's. I find that the TiVo's remote control light stays on especially long in between SEL and PLAY. If I continue while the light is still on, the code will not take. Not so with earlier versions, like the S1 or S2.


----------



## jeffsinsfo

This could be because some people experience this problem more frequently than others. I'm still convinced that in my case, the few brief audio dropouts/video pixelations that occur are due to a bad signal from my cable company. I don't experience them very often. I can watch many, many shows and not have any problems. When the problem occurs, however, I'll usually have a few instances within the same show.

The reason I think my problem is on Comcast's end is that when I have recorded the same shows on my Series 2 (for a while I had both my TiVos recording the same shows on basic cable) and I experienced this problem, it was evident in the same spots on both the Series 2 and Series 3. And, as I've mentioned in another thread, I've also seen this problem at a friend's house who has no TiVo and no cable box at all -- direct feed from the cable to the TV.

I'm not suggesting that everyone's experience should be the same as mine. From what some people are posting, it seems like this problem occurs multiple times in every show. If that were the case for me, I would be complaining loudly, too.



wrh30 said:


> I couldnt have said it better!! Its amazing that more people are not that concerned with what I consider major. I called for a second time today to Tivo with my concerns and couldnt believe the CSR actually said this was the first time he has herd of audio drop outs? yeah right waisted my time doing a reboot to make it look like he was fixing it... As much as I like my Tivo I am still under my 30 day return and this is going back for a full refund. As far as I am concerned this is a 1000 dollar door stop.


----------



## chsscgas

I watched a dLife Tivocast and then deleted the program. TiVo then downloaded the same program again. Every time I delete the program, TiVo will download the same video again. Is anyone else having this same issue with 8.1?


----------



## TiivoDog

I have been having the same problem, which started when the TivoCast service was made available with the recent service update. I had to delete a show numerous times in a row before it permamently ceased future downloads. I assumed it was resolved, but apparently it has not and hopefully it will be corrected, when the full suite of functionality is updated. As everyone is aware, we are not able to manage the TivoCast downloads via S3, but rather via the Tivo website.


----------



## tgibbs

I am now seeing occasional brief audio drop-outs with slight video glitches on OTA recordings (my Series 3 is set up OTA-only). These are very brief interruptions, and are not a major problem, but I cannot remember seeing this before the upgrade.


----------



## Bierboy

TiivoDog said:


> ...As everyone is aware, we are not able to manage the TivoCast downloads via S3, but rather via the Tivo website.


...and that is VERY limited. The only thing you can do is specify how many eps to keep. You can't specify how long to keep the episode (though you can do that on your TiVo after it downloads). You can't even delete a TiVoCast SP. It's ridiculous.


----------



## jimstark

I feel stupid posting this but...

How on earth do I use TiVoCast? I can't find anything on my machine that ever approaches the word, or how to access the function.

I'm running 8.1.1-01-2-648 BTW.

I just know it's going to be something simple and I'm just a big dumb idiot.


----------



## cwoody222

It's not on our Series3 boxes (yet). You have to visit tivo.com


----------



## dswallow

jimstark said:


> I feel stupid posting this but...
> 
> How on earth do I use TiVoCast? I can't find anything on my machine that ever approaches the word, or how to access the function.
> 
> I'm running 8.1.1-01-2-648 BTW.
> 
> I just know it's going to be something simple and I'm just a big dumb idiot.


The receiver-side of the interface to control subscriptions isn't functional for Series 3 units yet; there was some sort of last-minute hiccup they're in the process of fixing. However you can go online (www.tivo.com/tivocast) and start subscriptions to them and they'll make it to your system for viewing. You just won't be able to unsubscribe until they fix whatever is broken... and I gather they expect that to happen within a matter of hours, not days/many days.


----------



## jimstark

Ahh...thanks! I though I was crazy.


----------



## cwoody222

My SD recording of BSG had audio dropouts but NO pixelation. It was the first time ever I'd experienced the dropouts. Little "blips" of new sound a dozen or so times thru the episode.

Jeez, too bad for 8.1 huh?


----------



## TiVoStephen

chsscgas said:


> I watched a dLife Tivocast and then deleted the program. TiVo then downloaded the same program again. Every time I delete the program, TiVo will download the same video again. Is anyone else having this same issue with 8.1?


chsscgas, sorry to hear about this issue. We haven't seen that in a long time. Can you please e-mail me ([email protected]) with your TiVo Service Number?

Thanks,
Stephen


----------



## synch22

since I got the 8.1 update I get pixelation when I change channels, but its only when the channel is tunning in. Not that big of a deal but it kicked in with the update.


----------



## slimoli

TiVoStephen said:


> chsscgas, sorry to hear about this issue. We haven't seen that in a long time. Can you please e-mail me ([email protected]) with your TiVo Service Number?
> 
> Thanks,
> Stephen


Same problem here. Schedulled just one show of CNET, watched and deleted it and , immediately after, a download of the very same show started.

Sergio


----------



## redhat

Fofer said:


> No, it's still there.
> 
> Play a recorded show, and very slowly and very deliberately, press the required keys:
> 
> It will work.


Thanks for the reply. I have tried and tried again to restore the skip but no joy. I hear the invalid key drum boom sound when I press the 3 button or the 0 button. TiVo customer care will not help me with this unsupported feature. Is the series 3 TiVo 30 second skip programming the same as series 2? I don't understand why it doesn't work for me.


----------



## jfh3

redhat said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have tried and tried again to restore the skip but no joy. I hear the invalid key drum boom sound when I press the 3 button or the 0 button. TiVo customer care will not help me with this unsupported feature. Is the series 3 TiVo 30 second skip programming the same as series 2? I don't understand why it doesn't work for me.


Yes, the sequence is the same for a Series 3:

While playing a recorded program -

Select - Play - Select - 3 - 0 - Select

Works fine after the update - you must be missing something.


----------



## cokyq

Though not frequently, I have started to notice brief audio silences when watching a recorded show. It always has happed on a high definition channel. Today I noticed it once. I will start paying attention and see how often it reocurrs. I had thought it was the cable signal, but after reading some posts, I wonder if it is the TIVO?

Now wondering....


----------



## cokyq

Today I deleted a program from a group (total of 3 programs in the group), then got the message that the group was empty and to press the left arrow. When I do, I return to the NPL and the group is still there! I move into the group and the remaining 2 programs were still there!

Anyone else seen this?


----------



## moyekj

cwoody222 said:


> My SD recording of BSG had audio dropouts but NO pixelation. It was the first time ever I'd experienced the dropouts. Little "blips" of new sound a dozen or so times thru the episode.
> 
> Jeez, too bad for 8.1 huh?


 FYI, no problems at all with my Feb 25 (last Sunday) BSG recording on my S3 with 8.1.1. Could have been your source had issues.


----------



## Craigyg69

cokyq said:


> Today I deleted a program from a group (total of 3 programs in the group), then got the message that the group was empty and to press the left arrow. When I do, I return to the NPL and the group is still there! I move into the group and the remaining 2 programs were still there!
> 
> Anyone else seen this?


I've seen that as well. I deleted a program out of the HD Programs group, there were probably like 6 programs in there and it said the group was empty. Sure enough went back in and it wasn't.


----------



## kucharsk

tgibbs said:


> I am now seeing occasional brief audio drop-outs with slight video glitches on OTA recordings (my Series 3 is set up OTA-only). These are very brief interruptions, and are not a major problem, but I cannot remember seeing this before the upgrade.


Don't blame the S3 by default; check with a different OTA tuner if you can.

My local HD stations have dropouts in video and audio all the time, and it has *nothing* to do with the TiVo; in fact the S3 is noticeably less sensitive to dropouts than my other ATSC tuners have been.


----------



## cwoody222

moyekj said:


> FYI, no problems at all with my Feb 25 (last Sunday) BSG recording on my S3 with 8.1.1. Could have been your source had issues.


Too many similar occurrances after 8.1 to be a coincidence since I never had these issues before.


----------



## SCSIRAID

cokyq said:


> Today I deleted a program from a group (total of 3 programs in the group), then got the message that the group was empty and to press the left arrow. When I do, I return to the NPL and the group is still there! I move into the group and the remaining 2 programs were still there!
> 
> Anyone else seen this?


Ive seen that message when Im deleting stuff from the 'suggestions' group.... there were at least 50 suggestions in the group when I got it.....


----------



## minckster

SCSIRAID said:


> Ive seen that message when Im deleting stuff from the 'suggestions' group.... there were at least 50 suggestions in the group when I got it.....


 If you sit in the group with the message about it being empty, the group will update and fill in. You don't have to back out and re-enter the group. The wait seems interminable but it's probably 10-15 seconds, although I suppose the wait depends on the number of items in your Now Playing List.


----------



## SCSIRAID

minckster said:


> If you sit in the group with the message about it being empty, the group will update and fill in. You don't have to back out and re-enter the group. The wait seems interminable but it's probably 10-15 seconds, although I suppose the wait depends on the number of items in your Now Playing List.


But thats not what happens.... Im on the screen for a show in the suggestions group... I select delete.... I get the message that the group is empty and no longer needed and telling me to back up... no other option is offered... when I back up I am at the top of 'now playing'. I then have to go back into suggestions where it puts me at the next show after the one I deleted.

Are you suggesting that if I dont back up and just sit there that the message will go away and the list will come back? I will try that and see.


----------



## cwoody222

Another weird thing... twice now I've had TiVo tell me that if I did something recordings would be deleted earlier than expected. I have stuff on there from months ago... my TiVo is never close to full. And it never told me that before 8.1.

I can't remember what I was doing the first time I got the message but it wasn't even something that should have affected disk space!

Last night at 9:59pm I set "In Case of Emergency" to KUID just as the clock was rolling over and it started to record "Real World" and "Lost". It told me that if I changed the KUID for ICOE that RW and Lost wouldn't record. WHAT?

Anyway, I Left Arrowed out and went back and did it again and it worked fine.


----------



## minckster

SCSIRAID said:


> Are you suggesting that if I dont back up and just sit there that the message will go away and the list will come back? I will try that and see.


 Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've seen the same behavior in other groups too, not just the suggestions folder.


----------



## larrs

SCSIRAID said:


> But thats not what happens.... Im on the screen for a show in the suggestions group... I select delete.... I get the message that the group is empty and no longer needed and telling me to back up... no other option is offered... when I back up I am at the top of 'now playing'. I then have to go back into suggestions where it puts me at the next show after the one I deleted.
> 
> Are you suggesting that if I dont back up and just sit there that the message will go away and the list will come back? I will try that and see.


I tried that and it is exactly what happens. At first it tells you the group is empty. If you wait (10 seconds sounds right). It will start filling the programs that are actually there back in and will no longer say the group is empty.


----------



## SCSIRAID

minckster said:


> Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I've seen the same behavior in other groups too, not just the suggestions folder.


Cool... I guess Im just too 'anxious'... Thanks


----------



## Mishkin

I saw the same thing on my BSG recording this week. My signal is also SD (Charter CT) and I'd never had the audio dropout issue I've read about (I did have the missing audio on some channels problem). I haven't noticed any audio dropouts on other programs but all I've watched other than BSG was some episodes of Good Eats.



cwoody222 said:


> My SD recording of BSG had audio dropouts but NO pixelation. It was the first time ever I'd experienced the dropouts. Little "blips" of new sound a dozen or so times thru the episode.
> 
> Jeez, too bad for 8.1 huh?


----------



## jwbacher

Since the update I have noticed a lot more drop outs on Analog, but I still blame that on TWC. However, I never had issues with the OTA like I do now. That is more annoying than anything else prior to this update. In fact, I had 0 issues (aside from the cable cards which I got rid of).

Oh well, maybe the CableCard people are happy now and the rest of us are screwed?


----------



## PaulS

Mishkin said:


> I saw the same thing on my BSG recording this week. My signal is also SD (Charter CT) and I'd never had the audio dropout issue I've read about (I did have the missing audio on some channels problem). I haven't noticed any audio dropouts on other programs but all I've watched other than BSG was some episodes of Good Eats.


Same here with my SD recording of BSG this week. First occurrence of audio dropouts I've seen since getting my S3. Content problem, not an S3 problem ?


----------



## Darthnice

Interestingly enough, I have had minor audio drop outs on BSG with my S2, so I wonder if it actually came from the feed itself, since it sounds like it is across providers (I use Time Warner) and TiVo hardware.


----------



## geodon005

I will add my thoughts that it is the feed itself; I have Comcast and my recent BG recording had the first audio dropouts I can remember encountering.


----------



## Mishkin

Darthnice said:


> Interestingly enough, I have had minor audio drop outs on BSG with my S2, so I wonder if it actually came from the feed itself, since it sounds like it is across providers (I use Time Warner) and TiVo hardware.


Sounds like it was the feed, then. Now that I think about it I was watching American Idol last night which also comes in as an SD channel and there were no *TiVo-related* audio anomalies.


----------



## jeffsinsfo

Yes. In my case the error message actually said that the group was no longer needed because there were no further shows in it even though there were 21 shows remaining in the group. When I pressed the left arrow it did, in fact, look like the group and all of its programs were gone. When I scrolled down to the bottom of the now playing list and back up, however, I could see it again.

Another glitch I noticed last night was my suggestions folder disappearing after I deleted one item in it. I didn't get an error message; it was just gone. Again, scrolling up and down in the guide brought it and all of its contents back.

Looks like TiVo may have introduced some menu displaying bugs with the recent software update.



cokyq said:


> Today I deleted a program from a group (total of 3 programs in the group), then got the message that the group was empty and to press the left arrow. When I do, I return to the NPL and the group is still there! I move into the group and the remaining 2 programs were still there!
> 
> Anyone else seen this?


----------



## phox_mulder

redhat said:


> Thanks for the reply. I have tried and tried again to restore the skip but no joy. I hear the invalid key drum boom sound when I press the 3 button or the 0 button. TiVo customer care will not help me with this unsupported feature. Is the series 3 TiVo 30 second skip programming the same as series 2? I don't understand why it doesn't work for me.


Are you playing a pre recorded program when you try it?

I've found, with my 4 different models of TiVo's,
adding an extra "play" at the beginning of the sequence works every time, without fail.

Play - Select - Play - Select - 3 - 0 - Select.

I hit the keys with a rythm, just under a second apart, and don't break the rythm looking for a key, know where they are before you start.

And remember, if the pre recorded program you are watching has digital audio (I.E. an HD or Digital Cable program), you won't hear the confirmation bings (or the error bongs either).

phox


----------



## SCSIRAID

Another thing I noticed different with 8.1 is the behavior when you 'stop' an in progress suggestion recording. 8.0 would stop the recording and discard the partial. 8.1 stops the recording but keeps the partial. You have to delete it manually. I dont remember how Series 2 handled it....


----------



## bareyb

cokyq said:


> Today I deleted a program from a group (total of 3 programs in the group), then got the message that the group was empty and to press the left arrow. When I do, I return to the NPL and the group is still there! I move into the group and the remaining 2 programs were still there!
> 
> Anyone else seen this?


Yep. This seems an easy one to fix. I expect we'll see this gone in the next service update.


----------



## cwoody222

Well, I guess we can blame Sci-Fi Channel then. Fwew!


----------



## ashu

cwoody222 said:


> Well, I guess we can blame Sci-Fi Channel then. Fwew!


Why would you - you seem to prefer to blame TiVo FIRST all the time ... keep doing that


----------



## squiredogs

I've had 2 straight days with no noticeable problems. I had a new line run to the house, still had bad dropouts and pixelating. I then called comcast, and had then reauthorize the cards over the phone, one at a time, just like during my install. So far, I watched American Idol, some college basketball, and some daytime judge show junk from a low analog channel. About 10 hours. No audio dropouts when surfing the guide. 

Two days ago, I did get a first time wierd bug - I was watching The Tube, and the audio flat out stopped - the picture was still there, no stuttering or hiccups. I changed the channel out & back, and the sound came back. Hasn't happened since.

Maybe the 8.1 needs a warm-up? Maybe the cablecards crap out every update? TiVo did call my house yesterday, and spoke to my wife. Asked several questions. I'm happy that they are working on it, anyway.


----------



## TiivoDog

It looks like the switch has now been completely thrown as I have just worked the TivoCast Option through its paces on my 1 Series3 - checking the others as we speak.


----------



## TiivoDog

Yes, if you force a connection, the functionality will now be downloaded for TivoCast & Guru Guide, however there is currently some type of disconnect with the Guru Guide. I have entered my Tivo PW on 2 of my boxes and I am receiving an error as it was unable to be processed.

Hopefully, everyone else will get this update, as well


----------



## cokyq

This may be a "stupid" question... 

Do you have to force a download to get the TiVoCast option, or will it download through normal daily connects?


----------



## Maeglin

cokyq said:


> Do you have to force a download to get the TiVoCast option, or will it download through normal daily connects?


Daily connects will grab it. I've personally not forced a connection in at least a week, but I checked last night and it was there.


----------



## dbenrosen

squiredogs said:


> Two days ago, I did get a first time wierd bug - I was watching The Tube, and the audio flat out stopped - the picture was still there, no stuttering or hiccups. I changed the channel out & back, and the sound came back. Hasn't happened since.


I've had this problem as well, but I think it predates 8.1. Usually I get it watching English Premiere League Football (soccer) on Fox Soccer Channel. Just rewinding the buffer a tiny bit will fix it. The audio is actually in the buffer. Even if I then jump back to the end (live point) the audio is back. I've also seen the video be a little jumpy, as if it is advancing frame by frame in slow motion even though it is live, with no audio.


----------



## malakai

I sure hope the Series 3 will have the same features as the Apple TV. Play videos from my Mac on a Series 3? Wouldn't that be the most epic feature? Let's pray.


----------



## btwyx

malakai said:


> I sure hope the Series 3 will have the same features as the Apple TV. Play videos from my Mac on a Series 3? Wouldn't that be the most epic feature? Let's pray.


The Series 3 won't play video from anywhere, even Windoze. The Mac does have a video client now, if you have a TiVo (currently only Series 2s) that'll talk to it. You have to buy Toast to get it.


----------



## Leo_N

btwyx said:


> The Series 3 won't play video from anywhere, even Windoze. The Mac does have a video client now, if you have a TiVo (currently only Series 2s) that'll talk to it. You have to buy Toast to get it.


Or you can use pipakin's free version that does more, see this thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=337822&page=1&pp=30

Still S2 only, until (if/when) the S3 gets TTG then it is supposed to work on the S3 also.


----------



## cokyq

Should we pray?


----------



## cwoody222

malakai said:


> I sure hope the Series 3 will have the same features as the Apple TV. Play videos from my Mac on a Series 3? Wouldn't that be the most epic feature? Let's pray.


You're funny


----------



## btwyx

Leo_N said:


> Or you can use pipakin's free version that does more, see this thread:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=337822&page=1&pp=30
> 
> Still S2 only, until (if/when) the S3 gets TTG then it is supposed to work on the S3 also.


That's somewhat confusing as to whether it supports Macs. The post you link to mentions Windows only. The Sourceforge page mentions Unixen, but only seens to have a Windows installer.


----------



## Leo_N

btwyx said:


> That's somewhat confusing as to whether it supports Macs. The post you link to mentions Windows only. The Sourceforge page mentions Unixen, but only seens to have a Windows installer.


According to posts within the thread, people have gotten it running on Ubuntu, Windows, and OSX. Haven't read it in the last week or so, so possibly more have been added.


----------



## ashu

cokyq said:


> Should we pray?


I'll cue the music ...


----------



## stevenkriege

Hi all -

I recently got my Tivo S3 HD DVR setup with cablecards (from Time Warner) and such, but found a peculiar problem I was hoping someone would have a fix for. There are certain HD and SD channels that are completely missing, even though my subscription includes these channels and they are selectable in my program guide. I basically just get a black screen and no audio or video. I have my Tivo connected directly to my Sharp 720p LCD TV so there is no reciever to interefere with the signal.

Time Warner seems to think it's a Tivo issue. I didn't think so, but saw a couple of posts on this forum mentioning that the 8.1 firmware fix could potentially fix this issue.

Any idea what could be causing this and what a cure for it might be?

Thanks for your help.


----------



## BigMaxie

stevenkriege said:


> Hi all -
> 
> I recently got my Tivo S3 HD DVR setup with cablecards (from Time Warner) and such, but found a peculiar problem I was hoping someone would have a fix for. There are certain HD and SD channels that are completely missing, even though my subscription includes these channels and they are selectable in my program guide. I basically just get a black screen and no audio or video. I have my Tivo connected directly to my Sharp 720p LCD TV so there is no reciever to interefere with the signal.
> 
> Time Warner seems to think it's a Tivo issue. I didn't think so, but saw a couple of posts on this forum mentioning that the 8.1 firmware fix could potentially fix this issue.
> 
> Any idea what could be causing this and what a cure for it might be?
> 
> Thanks for your help.


Well, you won't know until you look after 8.1 is downloaded but here's what to do.

Go to the problem stations. Then go to Tivo Cental, Messages and Settings, and then Diagnostics. Scroll down until you find the tuner with the problem channel. Check to see that the PCR PIDS and Video PIDS are matching.

If they don't match then that's the problem and it will be a TW issue. Now how you go about fixing this can be difficult. I saw one member who got hold of the fax number of his local areas head honcho and he worked it out that way. Another way is to get to someone in head end and tell them about the pids you are seeing.

This must be fixed at head end. There is nothing TiVo can do about it if indeed you see the settings I described. Good luck.


----------



## CraigHB

There's a sticky post you should look at. The problem you're having is pretty common. Could be bad card(s), incorrect setup on TW's end, or a problem with communications. Browse the official TW cablecard thread for solutions. BTW, 8.1 has now been fully deployed so your box should already be updated. It might be waiting for a reboot for the service update to install. In any case, it's probably not going to fix your cablecards.


----------



## ashu

You can ALSO request TiVo to escalate/contact TWC in your area and push them to fix their boo-boo (if i IS their fault)


----------



## plmills

Just noticed Tivocast and Guru Guides have now shown up on my "Find Programs" menu on my Series 3. I can now manage Tivocast recordings from the TiVo interface.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

plmills said:


> Just noticed Tivocast and Guru Guides have now shown up on my "Find Programs" menu on my Series 3. I can now manage Tivocast recordings from the TiVo interface.


Hey, cool!

Just signed up for a few.

None coming down yet, at least none showing as "recording" now.

And I don't see any in the To-Do list either.

Seems odd....


----------



## cherry ghost

ThreeSoFar said:


> Hey, cool!
> 
> Just signed up for a few.
> 
> None coming down yet, at least none showing as "recording" now.
> 
> And I don't see any in the To-Do list either.
> 
> Seems odd....


They never show up in the To-Do List. Watch for the blue light.


----------



## Bierboy

As soon as they start recording, they show up in your NPL in a special folder. You can then access it and see how much of it has downloaded (if it's still in progress).


----------



## ewilts

eric_mcgovern said:


> Man that blue light is BRIGHT


That might be a blue light thing. My Powerline Ethernet adapters have a blue light and they're much, much brighter than the green lights on the same box. It's almost time for some duct tape over those puppies.

.../Ed


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## SCSIRAID

eric_mcgovern said:


> Man that blue light is BRIGHT


Yup.. you definitely cant miss it when its on....


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## ThreeSoFar

ewilts said:


> That might be a blue light thing. My Powerline Ethernet adapters have a blue light and they're much, much brighter than the green lights on the same box. It's almost time for some duct tape over those puppies.
> 
> .../Ed


My new MIMO Netgear router has a circle of blue lights on TOP of it. Had to put electrical tape over it. The light show on the ceiling was a bit too "disco".


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## snathanb

You can disable the LEDs. I've had mine turned off since day one... the old-school red recording LEDs looked out of place next to the sleek OLED display of the program name.


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## aaronwt

The red LED tells me that it's recording when it's in standby while th eBlue LED tells me its downloading. Without those LEDs I have no idea if the box is recording or not without taking it out of standby.


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## JimPa

Any new developments as to wireless networks that work best for S3 downloads??


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## Fofer

btwyx said:


> That's somewhat confusing as to whether it supports Macs. The post you link to mentions Windows only. The Sourceforge page mentions Unixen, but only seens to have a Windows installer.


It's a long thread, but there is some stellar Mac development going on. Check this out, with screenshots of the PrefPane:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4927745&&#post4927745

When/once/if the Series 3 gets MRV going on, in whatever shape/form (even if certain recordings are restricted from being transferred) I imagine this little homebrew will be getting the most use from me.


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## squiredogs

Over a week now, things are going great. My folders were gone in the NPL today, one quick press of "2"and it was all good. Very happy now. I just want my current functionality for 3 years, since I transferred the lifetime...



squiredogs said:


> I've had 2 straight days with no noticeable problems. I had a new line run to the house, still had bad dropouts and pixelating. I then called comcast, and had then reauthorize the cards over the phone, one at a time, just like during my install. So far, I watched American Idol, some college basketball, and some daytime judge show junk from a low analog channel. About 10 hours. No audio dropouts when surfing the guide.
> 
> Two days ago, I did get a first time wierd bug - I was watching The Tube, and the audio flat out stopped - the picture was still there, no stuttering or hiccups. I changed the channel out & back, and the sound came back. Hasn't happened since.
> 
> Maybe the 8.1 needs a warm-up? Maybe the cablecards crap out every update? TiVo did call my house yesterday, and spoke to my wife. Asked several questions. I'm happy that they are working on it, anyway.


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## donnlewis

Too bad. Still a problem.


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## donnlewis

Hope they get this fixed in a reasonable amount of time. It would make things much better.


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## MadGreek

I take it the ver. 8.1.1-01-2-648 is the latest update, correct? Is there anywhere I could look that shows it's the Winter 2006 update? The only reason I ask is because the version number is not mentioned in the original post and I hate asking what is probably a stupid question in the first place ;-)


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## Bierboy

MadGreek said:


> I take it the ver. 8.1.1-01-2-648 is the latest update, correct? Is there anywhere I could look that shows it's the Winter 2006 update? The only reason I ask is because the version number is not mentioned in the original post and I hate asking what is probably a stupid question in the first place ;-)


The only stupid question is the one not asked. You are correct, that is the latest update.


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## MadGreek

Thanks greatly!!


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## jjsdfs

snathanb said:


> You can disable the LEDs. I've had mine turned off since day one... the old-school red recording LEDs looked out of place next to the sleek OLED display of the program name.


 How did you disable the annoying blue lights on the netgear router, please?


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## minckster

jjsdfs said:


> How did you disable the annoying blue lights on the netgear router, please?


Yes, please! That would be excellent information!

On my routers, phone, and HD DVD Player (!), I use: 








If you cut carefully, it doesn't look too bad.


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## jjsdfs

minckster said:


> Yes, please! That would be excellent information!
> 
> On my routers, phone, and HD DVD Player (!), I use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you cut carefully, it doesn't look too bad.


 Hah! I built a cardboard "tent"!


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## bizzy

minckster said:


> Yes, please! That would be excellent information!
> 
> On my routers, phone, and HD DVD Player (!), I use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you cut carefully, it doesn't look too bad.


Heh. I used black photographer's masking tape on my DirecTV HR20.
That thing was flashier than the Vegas Strip


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## Zipman39

any time line on being able to transfer programs from my Series 3 to my computer over my Network? I was led to believe that this was possible when I purched the Series 3, since it was possible on the Series 2.
Thanks


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## TexasAg

Zipman39 said:


> any time line on being able to transfer programs from my Series 3 to my computer over my Network? I was led to believe that this was possible when I purched the Series 3, since it was possible on the Series 2.
> Thanks


  Not this again.

Let me guess, you were "led to believe" it because you assumed it could based on the S2...


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## Zipman39

That is corect. I know that the forem's have been over this before, I was just asking if there was any movement on it from TIVO.


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## CosmoGeek

Zipman39 said:


> That is corect. I know that the forem's have been over this before, I was just asking if there was any movement on it from TIVO.


They announced in January that it would be later this year. However, priorities change so I wouldn't consider that a promise. Try not to let the hostile posters bother you. You can try a search for TTG (TivoToGo) for more info.


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## JimPa

TTG (TivoToGo)

Sounds like a fast food chicken place.


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## MadGreek

Hell, I'd just like to be able to transfer shows from my Series 3 to my Series 2


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## aaronwt

jjsdfs said:


> How did you disable the annoying blue lights on the netgear router, please?


I have a DLink that has the same type of blue lights. I'd like to know who thought they would be a good idea to use. They should at least give you the option to dim them. My Dlink router has seven blue LEDs, all on since I'm using all the gigabit ports and also the wireless.


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## Testpattern

Someone was suggesting Tivo help organize availability for some key set up video files so we can dial in our performance from Tivo. Having gone through this with DVE and Avia via the DVD input on the old HDTV, things were greatly improved. There is notable differences from the Tivo display but no way to adjust for them other than the seat of your pants.

Have any of you ran across a solution for this? Presumably something you can download via TivoCast?


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## CosmoGeek

Testpattern said:


> Have any of you ran across a solution for this? Presumably something you can download via TivoCast?


You can record a "Tune Up" test pattern broadcast occasionally on InHD. It was called "INHD Tune Up".


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## Fofer

Testpattern said:


> Someone was suggesting Tivo help organize availability for some key set up video files so we can dial in our performance from Tivo. Having gone through this with DVE and Avia via the DVD input on the old HDTV, things were greatly improved. There is notable differences from the Tivo display but no way to adjust for them other than the seat of your pants.
> 
> Have any of you ran across a solution for this? Presumably something you can download via TivoCast?


Great question, given your username. 

I know of no such download from TiVo. The question's been asked before though.

In the meantime, these calibration image photos are supposed to work well with Desktop 2.4: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781394


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## rdrrepair

Testpattern said:


> Someone was suggesting Tivo help organize availability for some key set up video files so we can dial in our performance from Tivo. Having gone through this with DVE and Avia via the DVD input on the old HDTV, things were greatly improved. There is notable differences from the Tivo display but no way to adjust for them other than the seat of your pants.
> 
> Have any of you ran across a solution for this?


*INHD - April 22*7:00am/ 4:00am​*INHD - April 29*7:00am/ 4:00am​
http://www.inhd.com/about.jsp


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## Fofer

Awesome, thanks guys, I'm gonna record that! How long is the video, just curious?


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## mportuesi

The INHD calibration video is scheduled for 30 minutes in the program guide, but I think it only runs for around 15.


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## TydalForce

too bad you need digital cable for it 

i wish they'd broadcast that on an unencrypted channel, or OTA or something...


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## John Slider

If I Just Hooked Up My Tivo, Will It Be A Couple Of Days Before It Catches Up With The Updates? I Don't Have A Recently Deleted Folder Right Now.


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## greg_burns

John Slider said:


> If I Just Hooked Up My Tivo, Will It Be A Couple Of Days Before It Catches Up With The Updates? I Don't Have A Recently Deleted Folder Right Now.


You Can Go Into The Network Screen And Force A Connection. 

Keep doing that until it says pending 2am restart (you'll see it in the network screen and the system info screen). When it does just reboot and it will install the update.


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## John Slider

Thanks Greg, it helps so much that everyone on this forum bands together to help the ignorant like myself.  

I'll "Force" the connection now.  

Thanks Agan,
John


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## cwoody222

Fofer said:


> In the meantime, these calibration image photos are supposed to work well with Desktop 2.4: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=781394


I had no desire to view HD photos on my Series3 until now.

And I STILL can't do it with my Mac. WTF TiVo... it's high-res PHOTOS for God's sake... not rocket science!


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## rainwater

cwoody222 said:


> I had no desire to view HD photos on my Series3 until now.
> 
> And I STILL can't do it with my Mac. WTF TiVo... it's high-res PHOTOS for God's sake... not rocket science!


I thought there was a hack to run the HME app on a Mac? The app is written in Java and would run perfectly fine on a Mac. I think the only issue is the config isn't setup to work with a Mac but that is hardly a big deal for TiVo to fix.


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## cwoody222

I've run that before. I have no desire to install and run a new program just to view a few JPGs. TiVo should be able to handle that for me with the software I already have installed.


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## sinanju

jchick said:


> Hookbill - can you email me? I've got some questions about getting a TivoHD with Time Warner (old Adelphia) in Aurora Ohio. Seems like you'd be the right guy to commiserate with as you are in the same boat.


A few things:


The thread you've resurrected is nearly a year old.
Hookbill hasn't been around in quite some time.
If you had a personal message for hookbill, there is a personal message facility in this forum.
Posting your email in a public forum is an invitation for spam.


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