# TiVo announces iPad remote App



## innocentfreak

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2010-11/tivo-announces-supercharged-ipad-remote-app/

http://www.tivo.com/ipad

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/gettivoanywhere/howto_iPad.html thanks to Orangeboy






From the press release...


> * Gesture based control - Take complete control of all recordings, even dragging forward and back through a show with a simple tap or swipe
> * Start watching what you want - Launch a recorded show, live TV or streaming video with the swipe of a finger
> * Program guide - Browse your full-screen TV program guide without interrupting TV viewing
> * Schedule - Schedule one-time recordings and Season Pass recordings from the device at home or on-the-go
> * Get more from your shows and movies - Explore cast and crew and other recommendations of your favorite shows without interrupting the big screen
> * Search - Search for all of your favorite TV shows, movies, actors or directors across both broadcast and broadband from Netflix, Amazon Video On Demand, and more


http://gigaom.com/video/tivo-ipad-app/


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## davezatz

It looks very slick (if cluttered). I'm pretty fired up.


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## innocentfreak

Almost tempted to put an iPad on my holiday buy list to play with it. Of course if only there was a way to stream content it would be even better.

I wonder if you can install PyTiVo or a form of TiVo Desktop even.


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## deandashl

davezatz said:


> It looks very slick (if cluttered). I'm pretty fired up.


I've found when there is more info on the screen, the screen has more stuff on it.

Slide Remote, iPad app -- two hits in a row; Everything but the main product.

Every time I write off TiVo (The Premiere XL and HDUI), they shock me with something great (Slide Remote and iPad App).

Half-assed and half-great. Confusing.


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## en sabur nur

innocentfreak said:


> Almost tempted to put an iPad on my holiday buy list to play with it. Of course if only there was a way to stream content it would be even better.


I am definately getting a Premiere and an iPad now! This app has won me over. It's exactly what I was wishing for, and judging by the "living room dvr" tab in the upper left-hand corner, it may be able to control more that one dvr! I hope so, because then I'd buy two Tivo Premieres! This is awesome news!


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## innocentfreak

A couple things that will be interesting to see. 

If the iPad works as shown in the video, I guess we can take this to mean the Premiere is underpowered since the UI isn't that smooth and can't scroll? If anything it may more point out the flaws of the Premiere.

i will also be curious to see what hooks are there now and what people can do with them. 

This also seems to be something that should be offered as a program for the PC. I realize the big drive to release apps for the iPad especially to compete with other companies already doing it, but it just seems like it would also make sense to release a version you can use on your desktop or laptop or netbook.


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## strejcek

innocentfreak said:


> A couple things that will be interesting to see.
> 
> If the iPad works as shown in the video, I guess we can take this to mean the Premiere is underpowered since the UI isn't that smooth and can't scroll? If anything it may more point out the flaws of the Premiere.
> 
> i will also be curious to see what hooks are there now and what people can do with them.
> 
> This also seems to be something that should be offered as a program for the PC. I realize the big drive to release apps for the iPad especially to compete with other companies already doing it, but it just seems like it would also make sense to release a version you can use on your desktop or laptop or netbook.


Or smartphone  At the very least, maybe this is a preview of things to come for the premiere....nah


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## RoyK

So, if I spend another $500 I can get a "free" app that does most of what the premier should do by itself. Gee, Thanks.


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## strejcek

RoyK said:


> So, if I spend another $500 I can get a "free" app that does most of what the premier should do by itself. Gee, Thanks.


Such a bargain isn't it?


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## Aero 1

why are those dumbasses showing a tivo HD in the video and mention only the Premiere? you know thats going to cause someone here to ***** about false advertisement.


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## aadam101

They should be focusing their efforts on making the Premiere work. Luckily I have an iPad and this app might make the Tivo experience a little better........if it works.


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## aadam101

And it better be a free app........


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## dtynd888

WTF what about the iphone!!!! & HD3 users... WAY TO FORGET YOUR BASE!!! Been with TIVO for years... Now I got to spend another 700 bucks for a new tivo and ipad. Thanks again TIVO!.


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## sbiller

dtynd888 said:


> WTF what about the iphone!!!! & HD3 users... WAY TO FORGET YOUR BASE!!! Been with TIVO for years... Now I got to spend another 700 bucks for a new tivo and ipad. Thanks again TIVO!.


Seriously?!? Do you think the TiVo HD has the horsepower to support these real-time capabilities? Kudos to TiVo for providing yet another reason to upgrade to the Premiere.


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## RichB

I-pod touch please.

- Rich


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## innocentfreak

aadam101 said:


> And it better be a free app........


Did you even read the links or watch the video? It is a free app.


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## gonzotek

sbiller said:


> Seriously?!? Do you think the TiVo HD has the horsepower to support these real-time capabilities? Kudos to TiVo for providing yet another reason to upgrade to the Premiere.


Yes. Most of what was shown in the video(all of the searching and guide features) would be coming from Tivo.com servers and not the local TiVo unit. The only thing I saw that isn't currently enabled in an HD/S3 was the timeline scrubbing. And that should be possible as well.


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## sac84371

gonzotek said:


> Yes. Most of what was shown in the video(all of the searching and guide features) would be coming from Tivo.com servers and not the local TiVo unit. The only thing I saw that isn't currently enabled in an HD/S3 was the timeline scrubbing. And that should be possible as well.


The Tivo HD is more than capable of supporting the IPAD app. The processing power is largely done on the IPAD not the Tivo. Additionally there are other apps that allow you to control your Tivo through your Iphone, Ipad or Itouch which allow you to control your Tivo and all of its functions through those I devices.

What this is a hell mary for Tivo. They are getting killed in the consumer TV appliance market right now and this is a great way for them to set themselves apart for the holidays without actually introducing any new hardware. I do think it is a bad move to exclude Tivo HD. This choice must be a conscience choice by Tivo executives because the TivoHD can handle the tech requirements. Tivo is obviously trying to get new and existing users to move into the world of premiere tivo. I don't blame them but I am sure this will leave a bad taste in the mouth of may die hard Tivo users like me who own several Tivo HD's and still don't have a need to upgrade.

Just my 2 cents.


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## dtynd888

gonzotek said:


> Yes. Most of what was shown in the video(all of the searching and guide features) would be coming from Tivo.com servers and not the local TiVo unit. The only thing I saw that isn't currently enabled in an HD/S3 was the timeline scrubbing. And that should be possible as well.


I totally agree here. The HD/S3 should be able to handle the timeline scrubbing in the background. Yeah it might be a little slow but come on its Linux. I type it again Tivo has forgotten its base... Loyal customers with the HD/S3, I have 2 and bought them only 5 weeks before they announced the Premiere so I'm stuck for a good while.


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## deandashl

dtynd888 said:


> WTF what about the iphone!!!! & HD3 users... WAY TO FORGET YOUR BASE!!! Been with TIVO for years... Now I got to spend another 700 bucks for a new tivo and ipad. Thanks again TIVO!.


No. You don't have to.

And what about the LG 5600 phone. Or the Nokia 3650? Or Motorola Razor!!
I mean COME ON!! Unbelievable!!

Same thing happened to me with Mitsubishi. I bought a 35 inch SD tube TV in 1991. Then 10 years later everything changed and the TV wasn't flat OR HD. WTF? Way to forget your base!!

I had a friend who had a desktop with a 486 intel chip and he couldn't run Windows 98 on it. WTF?

This technology moving on thing really sucks!


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## dtynd888

deandashl said:


> And what about the LG 5600 phone. Or the Nokia 3650? Or Motorola Razor!!
> I mean COME ON!! Unbelievable!!
> 
> Same thing happened to me with Mitsubishi. I bought a 35 inch SD tube TV in 1991. Then 10 years later everything changed and the TV wasn't flat OR HD. WTF? Way to forget your base!!
> 
> I had a friend who had a desktop with a 486 intel chip and he couldn't run Windows 98 on it. WTF?
> 
> Oh! Hold it. THAT's unreasonable.


dude we are not talking 10 years we are talking this year.... and you can run Win98 on a 486....


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## bigpatky

RoyK said:


> So, if I spend another $500 I can get a "free" app that does most of what the premier should do by itself. Gee, Thanks.


or....it's something cool for those who already own an ipad. i don't think tivo is trying to push ipad sales for apple.


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## deandashl

dtynd888 said:


> dude we are not talking 10 years we are talking this year.... and you can run Win98 on a 486....


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## aadam101

innocentfreak said:


> Did you even read the links or watch the video? It is a free app.


No. I didn't read it. I read lots about the Premiere when I bought it and it was much better on paper than in reality. I will judge the app once I actually get to use it.


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## Joe3

It's late in the 4th quarter and now TiVo decides to take the ball down the field?

A least the TiVo base is on its feet, again.


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## bigpatky

Joe3 said:


> It late in the 4th quarter and now TiVo decides to take the ball down the field?


i saw a commercial for the comcast ipad app just the other day. i told my wife. i am _this close_ to leaving my cable/tivo behind to either the regular comcast dvr or a satellite option because everyone else keeps coming out with better stuff. i know this isn't a big deal for many customers, but this might have saved at least one.

now if we can only get MRV as a streaming option to get around the stupid copy protection flags, i would buy a 2nd tivo and not feel pressured to go to directv.


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## jrtroo

I love all of the condemnation here for an app that nobody has used yet. This was an unexpected tool for us to use, a nice to have, but everyone seems to feel entitled to bigger and better for nothing. 

While Premiere has a few issues to work out (mine is fine, but I understand others have some problems), TiVo has offered more "new" tools for us over the last calendar year than they have made available in any 12 month period.

Do I want it for my older unit? Sure. Am I entitled, not so much. They don't need to sell series 3 units, they need to sell Premieres. Would I want this for my ITouch, sure. Am I entitled, not so much.


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## Mikef5

bigpatky said:


> i saw a commercial for the comcast ipad app just the other day. i told my wife. i am _this close_ to leaving my cable/tivo behind to either the regular comcast dvr or a satellite option because everyone else keeps coming out with better stuff. i know this isn't a big deal for many customers, but this might have saved at least one.
> 
> now if we can only get MRV as a streaming option to get around the stupid copy protection flags, i would buy a 2nd tivo and not feel pressured to go to directv.


Maybe you should look at the Comcast IPad app again, here's a link to it...http://blog.comcast.com/2010/11/comcasts-neil-smit-demos-xfinity-tv-app-for-ipad-at-web-20.html
It shows them streaming the program to the IPad but I'm pretty sure that won't come until December sometime but it does work.

I like the look of the Tivo app and some of it's functions but with the Comcast app I have access to their VOD which I don't with Tivo but the real deal killer for me is that you have to have a Premier Tivo and I have a TivoHD. Also, there will be an Android App coming in January for Comcast so you don't need an IPad.

Laters,
Mikef5


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## aindik

Mikef5 said:


> Maybe you should look at the Comcast IPad app again, here's a link to it...http://blog.comcast.com/2010/11/comcasts-neil-smit-demos-xfinity-tv-app-for-ipad-at-web-20.html
> It shows them streaming the program to the IPad but I'm pretty sure that won't come until December sometime but it does work.


You can stream their online VOD library. I don't see any current or future ability to stream recordings from your DVR.



Mikef5 said:


> I like the look of the Tivo app and some of it's functions but with the Comcast app I have access to their VOD which I don't with Tivo but the real deal killer for me is that you have to have a Premier Tivo and I have a TivoHD. Also, there will be an Android App coming in January for Comcast so you don't need an IPad.
> 
> Laters,
> Mikef5


You don't need a Comcast cable box to stream VOD stuff via the iPad app (or, at least, you don't need one for streaming via xfinitytv.com on a computer - we'll see if the iPad app is different when it comes out, but I doubt it). You just need the requisite login credentials associated with an account that pays for the appropriate level of TV programming.

So, you can have TiVo AND have Comcast's VOD on your iPad.


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## Mikef5

aindik said:


> So, you can have TiVo AND have Comcast's VOD on your iPad.


I don't have a Premier Tivo only a TivoHD, if the app worked with the TivoHD then you're right, I'd have the best of both worlds 

I have a friend that Beta tested the IPad app for Comcast and I'll see if their app will stream stored content or not.

Laters,
Mikef5


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## innocentfreak

jrtroo said:


> I love all of the condemnation here for an app that nobody has used yet. This was an unexpected tool for us to use, a nice to have, but everyone seems to feel entitled to bigger and better for nothing.
> 
> While Premiere has a few issues to work out (mine is fine, but I understand others have some problems), TiVo has offered more "new" tools for us over the last calendar year than they have made available in any 12 month period.
> 
> Do I want it for my older unit? Sure. Am I entitled, not so much. They don't need to sell series 3 units, they need to sell Premieres. Would I want this for my ITouch, sure. Am I entitled, not so much.


You must be new here. We don't like this kind of rational thinking cluttering up our forums.


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## jsmeeker

aadam101 said:


> They should be focusing their efforts on making the Premiere work.


This.

I don't have an iPad. But even if I did, it would be nice if the Premiere worked better on its own.


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## RichB

jsmeeker said:


> This.
> 
> I don't have an iPad. But even if I did, it would be nice if the Premiere worked better on its own.


What is needed is an IPad accelerator.
The TiVo remotes into the I-Pad to control duplicates the display on your TV screen. Then you place the Ipad in the closet, and voilà, no more interface performance problems 

-Rich


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## Fofer

Too little, too late. And with no support for Series 3, they've finally disenfranchised this long-time evangelist and early adopter. I'm not about to "upgrade" to the half-baked Premiere, just to use this app on my iPad.

TiVo will get no more of my money.


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## Philmatic

My criticism of this app stems from the likely redirection of engineering resources that went to develop this app instead of maintaining and updating the HD user interface on the premiere boxes. They haven't converted any new menus over that were available at launch, no new Netflix, Amazon or YouTube apps, and no Hulu+ still.

The iPad app looks FANTASTIC, but to redirect engineering resources from your flagship product to work on an app that less than 1&#37; of TiVo subscribers will use? That's not good managing.


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## innocentfreak

Who says anyone was pulled from the Premiere to develop this though? For all we know this came about due to functionality they are using on the new DirecTiVo since DirecTV has a similar app for their DVR from what I remember.

Also until people get their hans on it there is no way to know how complex the app is. For all we know one person wrote it.


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## deandashl

Why does TiVo even bother.

it's one thing to complain when TiVo does nothing; but when they do?
I give them credit for a pretty cool, advanced app. 

TiVo deserves all the criticism you like for the Premiere HDUI STILL not being finished. ANd a Premiere XL that has little "XL" to talk about. And I've given plenty.

But, I wasted 4 years of time and $$$ on an embarrassingly terrible Comcast DVR; the grass is NOT greener.

I have a HD XL (19 months) and Slide Remote(great!). I've had little urge for a Premiere (why? besides it's new) but this app is a nudge in the right direction.

D to a D+

You all are right though. This app would work just fine with S3/HD's. Te only reason I justify it, is the "subscription" concept. In other words, "you are still paying" and therefore deserve any reasonable update relative to your HW.


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## NYHeel

2 questions on this app for anyone who might know. First, can you start an MRV transfer from this app? Second, can you manage your now playing list and to do list with this app? So can I delete shows or delete future recordings? That's what's missing from all of the web based stuff. It's nice that I can see it online but I want to be able to manage as well.


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## shaown

Really ? People are actually pissed Tivo released a new future they had not promised anyone? Seriously?
So far - rather than folks being like - cool new feature, hope it hits the THD/S3s the way the Slide Remote and Pandora have in last couple months (and I guess even that crappy frame feature) , we have whine whine whine.

I'm not a fanboy, I think them releasing it for older units would be a smart and cool move, (and one I would appreciate) - but not really fair to be pissed about it. 

BTW - I don't understand why they can't release this for Series 2s Single Tuners while they are it .. kidding? or not?
-Shaown


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## bigpatky

NYHeel said:


> Second, can you manage your now playing list and to do list with this app? So can I delete shows or delete future recordings? That's what's missing from all of the web based stuff. It's nice that I can see it online but I want to be able to manage as well.


Specifically...can we manage the dvr _outside_ of the home as in not on the home network? In the video he says on the go but some would consider what we have at tivo.com as on the go management. I wouldn't. (it has to send a request and could take a couple hours to actually schedule a recording)


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## dswallow

Well, at least now we know the real necessity of Flash on the TiVo UI.

There is no reason at all that a perfectly good (and certainly better than on the Premiere) HDUI couldn't have been implemented on the TiVo HD and TiVo Series 3, without Flash.


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## trip1eX

Does it work as well as the Premiere HDUI?


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## jrtroo

innocentfreak said:


> You must be new here. We don't like this kind of rational thinking cluttering up our forums.


My apologies. My logic sometimes gets in the way of being upset over nothing.


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## innocentfreak

If you read the comments on Zatz Not Funny, you will see Dave weighed in and said one of the reasons only the iPad has been announced is due to the amount of information on the screen. Ipods and other devices would require a new layout to better suit the smaller screen where the iPad could handle a port of the current UI. 

I am just excited to see what new things are allowed over IP and to see if we the general public can access them.


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## lrhorer

deandashl said:


> I've found when there is more info on the screen, the screen has more stuff on it.


A bunch of silly pictures do not constitute information.



deandashl said:


> Half-assed and half-great. Confusing.


Hardly. If they come up with a PC based app lacking all the stupid pictures, with actual information on the screen, they might have something.


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## djwilso

That seems like a pretty nice app. Too bad I don't have an iPad, but I sure wouldn't mind having one. If they were closer to $299, I might be able to swing it.

I also only have an original Series 3, so it looks like I'm totally out of luck.

3 usable tuners or better overlap handling is mainly what I want from my TiVo. If two shows on the same channel overlap due to time padding, why can't the overlapped section only tie up a single tuner? Why?


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## trip1eX

Be nice if they also put this on OSX and Windoze.


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## RichB

dswallow said:


> Well, at least now we know the real necessity of Flash on the TiVo UI.
> 
> There is no reason at all that a perfectly good (and certainly better than on the Premiere) HDUI couldn't have been implemented on the TiVo HD and TiVo Series 3, without Flash.


I was thinking the same thing.
I am hoping that this has occurred to TiVo and the iPad port leads to a Flashless version for the Premiere.

- Rich


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## Fofer

RichB said:


> I was thinking the same thing.
> I am hoping that this has occurred to TiVo and the iPad port leads to a Flashless version for the Premiere.
> 
> - Rich


Hahaha!

If history is any indicator, TiVo will come out with a new box in 2015 with a newly revamped, Flashless HD UI, called the "Ultimate," which will completely leave Premiere owners behind.


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## aindik

Fofer said:


> Hahaha!
> 
> If history is any indicator, TiVo will come out with a new box in 2015 with a newly revamped, Flashless HD UI, called the "Ultimate," which will completely leave Premiere owners behind.


2013 is more like it.


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## dswallow

Fofer said:


> Hahaha!
> 
> If history is any indicator, TiVo will come out with a new box in 2015 with a newly revamped, Flashless HD UI, called the "Ultimate," which will completely leave Premiere owners behind.


And likely *still* will have a half-implemented HDUI.


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## Khaz

It is sad that TiVo appears to be lagging behind Comcast in terms of features. Why did such a behemoth company launch their app before a smaller more nimble company? There really is no reason for me to go back to TiVo any more. I have my VOD, my streaming to iPad, my any room DVR functionality...and I get it for a monthly price with no contract commitment. I just returned my rented DVRs to Comcast last week after a year and upgraded to the latest boxes. I could never do that with a TiVo, even with the new subscription options. 

They were once so innovative...now I don't know who they will appeal to aside from diehards and techies.


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## Dan203

I don't have an iPad so this app is useless to me, however my developer side wants to know how it's done? If it requires a live connection to the internet to talk to the TiVo.com servers then I don't really care. However if it's getting the info from the TiVo itself then this could have potential. If all that info was available via the local network then the possibility of creating a PC based server which does all the scheduling on multiple TiVos using a unified SP and To Do list would become a possibility. That's interesting.

Dan


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## gonzotek

dswallow said:


> And likely *still* will have a half-implemented HDUI.


 This. As it's a closed system anyway, if the HDUI were _fully implemented_, what difference would it have made to the user what underlying technology was used? It could have been written in COBOL for all the person holding the remote could care. If it works, it works. Since that's not the case, it's disappointing they draw attention to that fact by pointing out their choice to change technology. I'm no great fan of flash for the usual techie/quasi-programmer/open-source-enthusiast reasons, but that doesn't mean I can't see it's value in certain places.



Dan203 said:


> I don't have an iPad so this app is useless to me, however my developer side wants to know how it's done? If it requires a live connection to the internet to talk to the TiVo.com servers then I don't really care. However if it's getting the info from the TiVo itself then this could have potential. If all that info was available via the local network then the possibility of creating a PC based server which does all the scheduling on multiple TiVos using a unified SP and To Do list would become a possibility. That's interesting.
> 
> Dan


That's an interesting point. I am assuming that if it has access to the "Tivo Search" dataset, it's getting it right from the cloud, but that assumption doesn't have to be correct...or totally correct, anyway.


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## wp746911

1)Despite all the whining, this is nothing but a GOOD thing tivo has done.
2)That being said, I do agree with some questions about priorities- what about the HD interface in the premiere? Dual core? Etc? The ipad is a great product but the majority of us dont have one...


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## innocentfreak

Dan203 said:


> I don't have an iPad so this app is useless to me, however my developer side wants to know how it's done? If it requires a live connection to the internet to talk to the TiVo.com servers then I don't really care. However if it's getting the info from the TiVo itself then this could have potential. If all that info was available via the local network then the possibility of creating a PC based server which does all the scheduling on multiple TiVos using a unified SP and To Do list would become a possibility. That's interesting.
> 
> Dan


Well support is supposed to be coming via an update so I am guessing they will have to add some hooks. I am assuming the playback commands will be at least. Some of it will probably still be through TiVo.com like remote scheduling but just using the Premiere interface rather than TiVo.com layout.

The fact that it requires an update definitely points to functionality over IP. Of course what access will be available remains to be seen. It will probably be similar to what DirecTV users can do with the IP controls for their DVRs as seen over at dbstalk.


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## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> I don't have an iPad so this app is useless to me, however my developer side wants to know how it's done? If it requires a live connection to the internet to talk to the TiVo.com servers then I don't really care. However if it's getting the info from the TiVo itself then this could have potential. If all that info was available via the local network then the possibility of creating a PC based server which does all the scheduling on multiple TiVos using a unified SP and To Do list would become a possibility. That's interesting.
> 
> Dan


 +1. The how is what peaked my interest. I don't care about iPad (for << $500 there are plenty of much more capable devices than that thing). Once released I guess we will need to find someone with iPad with ability/interest to do some network sniffing to discover exactly what is happening (assuming everything happens on local network and not via tivo.com). I doubt TiVo will publish any kind of API themselves.


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## orangeboy

After finally watching the video, my guess it's a combo of both tivo.com for scheduling and local network access for controlling. I'm gonna have to watch it again though


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## innocentfreak

moyekj said:


> +1. The how is what peaked my interest. I don't care about iPad (for << $500 there are plenty of much more capable devices than that thing). Once released I guess we will need to find someone with iPad with ability/interest to do some network sniffing to discover exactly what is happening (assuming everything happens on local network and not via tivo.com). I doubt TiVo will publish any kind of API themselves.


Hmm I know Ben Drawbaugh just got an Ipad. I think he still has a Premiere, if not I may have to let him borrow one of mine.


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## orangeboy

Dunno if this link has been explored or not, but some of the interesting points I gathered from it are:

Signing in with your Media Access Key,
Signing in with your user name and password, and
You cannot manage your shows in "Remote" mode.


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## innocentfreak

Nope missed that one. Added to the first post though thanks. I really hope this stuff will be open to anyone to make tools and even for some of the functionality to hit other TiVos like...



> Tap a show to view information about it on the top half of the screen. From that screen, you can watch the show on your TV by tapping the image in the top part of the screen (or tapping "Watch now"), explore the show, get or modify a Season Pass recording, *delete the show from the My Shows list*, view upcoming episodes, or share your comments about the show on Facebook or Twitter.


Remote deletion? Even if you can only use it on the local network, this would be extremely nice.


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## orangeboy

innocentfreak said:


> Nope missed that one. Added to the first post though thanks. I really hope this stuff will be open to anyone to make tools and even for some of the functionality to hit other TiVos like...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tap a show to view information about it on the top half of the screen. From that screen, you can watch the show on your TV by tapping the image in the top part of the screen (or tapping "Watch now"), explore the show, get or modify a Season Pass recording, delete the show from the My Shows list, view upcoming episodes, or share your comments about the show on Facebook or Twitter.
> 
> 
> 
> Remote deletion? Even if you can only use it on the local network, this would be extremely nice.
Click to expand...

If all that quoted stuff could be done simultaneously (where applicable), than that would be very cool. If it's mutually exclusive, I could see the deletion being done by sending the LAN keyboard code for the "CLEAR" button. With that last "or share your comments..." statement, it sounds to be mutually exclusive.


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## moyekj

I already envision an auto-commercial skip application which will take advantage of the remote scrubbing feature. Assuming you have commercial points identified for a show (perhaps you already offloaded that show and ran commercial detection on it to identify commercial locations) the application would monitor the current play position and automatically skip past commercials (like ReplayTV used to do). Of course there are inherent assumptions that one can get information about the current play position and can jump to a specific position which I don't know will be available or not yet. Many details missing but hopefully there are enough new remote control features available to inspire 3rd party development way beyond what TiVo envisions.

Remote deletion is another feature I really miss from ReplayTV days as well which would be useful. I MRV all the time and so have to delete copies of shows all the time from multiple units.


----------



## orangeboy

moyekj said:


> I already envision an auto-commercial skip application which will take advantage of the remote scrubbing feature. Assuming you have commercial points identified for a show (perhaps you already offloaded that show and ran commercial detection on it to identify commercial locations) the application would monitor the current play position and automatically skip past commercials (like ReplayTV used to do). Of course there are inherent assumptions that one can get information about the current play position and can jump to a specific position which I don't know will be available or not yet. Many details missing but hopefully there are enough new remote control features available to inspire 3rd party development way beyond what TiVo envisions.
> 
> Remote deletion is another feature I really miss from ReplayTV days as well which would be useful. I MRV all the time and so have to delete copies of shows all the time from multiple units.


One of the pics provided by Mr. Zatz has got me rethinking what may be available. Inclusion of "collections", currently only found on the Premiere box itself:

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/browse_screen__tivo_ipad.png

Of course I'm sure the information is collected at the TiVo mothership and piped down to the boxes, but if the iPad app gets the collections from the box, who knows what else could be hidden under the covers. Like you said though, many details missing...


----------



## Beryl

bigpatky said:


> i saw a commercial for the comcast ipad app just the other day. i told my wife. i am _this close_ to leaving my cable/tivo behind to either the regular comcast dvr or a satellite option because everyone else keeps coming out with better stuff. i know this isn't a big deal for many customers, but this might have saved at least one.
> 
> now if we can only get MRV as a streaming option to get around the stupid copy protection flags, i would buy a 2nd tivo and not feel pressured to go to directv.


Agreed. I have an iPad and a couple of TiVO HDs. I don't plan to upgrade them to premiers as it would negate all of the savings I've realized by not renting Comcast equipment. Break even takes at least one year and my oldest HD is not yet 2 years old.

Making all applications backwards compatible is not expected but they should at least enable some functions of the iPad app to work with -1 level of equipment. It is not like purchasing TiVos is a one time thing -- we also need to subscribe to their service.

I am impressed with the current Xfinity iPad app and anxious to be able to watch shows onDemand. If they allow remote DVR viewing, I may very well sell off my entire TiVo/Slingbox combination and return to renting. It is just cost effective.


----------



## johnner1999

I have two S4 boxes... and to be honest most cable company DVR's are better (no not as graphical) but also more reliable then these pos ;-) Now tivo make an Android and even iPhone app so when your on the go you can schedule events much easier, using the website on the phone sort of stinks.


----------



## jwagner010

+1 for an Android App - by phone and Tablets.


----------



## SullyND

I love the posts that complain about the Premiere not having features worthy of upgrading from a S3 which then go on to complain about the S3 not having this feature. 

TiVo is damned if they do, damned if they don't.

My THD works the same today as it did yesterday and last month. What more does TiVo owe me?


----------



## zalusky

Tivo owes you innovation to make you want to upgrade. It's sad when the most interesting comments can make are that there 5 year old boxes still work sort of.
Most other companies have some innovation to their existing customer base for a couple of years before tossing them to the wind.

Now you look at their new products and are probably thinking can I trust them to stand by the new product and make it usable?

Many people bought HDs and S3's with the hope that they would fix some issues to make them more usable.

The copy flag issue has made them less usable over the years and we thought that could be fixed. We thought we would get something to deal with SDV. Now they advertise the new box as a platform with a future but can you trust that?


----------



## slowbiscuit

This would be a great app if it ran on hardware that most people owned, like gee I dunno, a Windows laptop? 

And the Tivo HDs are only 3 years old, pretty sad that they're being left behind here.


----------



## SullyND

My iPhone 3G is not allowed by Apple to do things the newer phones can.
My AppleTV is not allowed to do things the newer AppleTV can.

How is my TiVo any different?


----------



## aindik

SullyND said:


> What more does TiVo owe me?


Consumer products today come with regular software/firmware updates and post-purchase innovation. Especially consumer products that carry a monthly fee. That's baked into the way TiVo sells its box, and it's why we pay so much for the box and the service. To abandon boxes that were on sale as new 8 months ago is to make us all feel like suckers for paying as much as we did for them.


----------



## SullyND

aindik said:


> Consumer products today come with regular software/firmware updates and post-purchase innovation. Especially consumer products that carry a monthly fee.


And my Apple 3G iPhone? Monthly fee, limited post-purchase innovation. Features restricted from more current phones.


----------



## aindik

SullyND said:


> And my Apple 3G iPhone? Monthly fee, limited post-purchase innovation. Features restricted from more current phones.


Did I say TiVo was the only company that did this?

Though, in Apple's defense, the monthly fee you pay is for connectivity rather than for "service," you don't pay that fee to Apple, and the part of the product that Apple is responsible for (everything but the connectivity) would still work if you stopped paying the fee.

Still, I think especially on iDevices, Apple obsoletes its products too fast.


----------



## Fofer

zalusky said:


> The copy flag issue has made them less usable over the years and we thought that could be fixed. We thought we would get something to deal with SDV. Now they advertise the new box as a platform with a future but can you trust that?


Absolutely no trust, whatsoever. I got the Series 3 for like $800, only to see the TiVoHD come out soon thereafter. Neither ever got an HD UI, any new software is obviously a tacked-on afterthought, and the SDV "fix" is kludgy and unreliable. The Premiere is a half-baked "upgrade" / replacement with a whole slew of it's own new problems.


----------



## Riverdome

I am having a hard time understanding how non-Premiere owners can be upset with this announcement. If you don't want to spend the $$ to be on the latest release of a product then you can't expect additional features beyond what was a part of your original purchase. I don't own a Premiere or an iPad but this new feature made me consider upgrading, which was why Tivo spent the time/$$ on developing the app, right.

Maybe to make everyone happy Tivo should make a version that is compatible with the S3/HD. Then sell that software for half the cost of a new Premiere. That way Tivo gets a non-trivial source of income and those who want the latest and greatest can purchase it.

Correct me but where in technology are free product enhancements the norm for current or legacy hardware?

Android - yes but fragmentation is quickly becoming a problem
Apple - somewhat but not always free and legacy hardware rarely gets all features
Microsoft - very little unless you consider a security patch an enhancement
Other cell phones/GPS units/ etc.. - no
Computer hardware - no
Set top boxes - rarely, PS3 has had firmware enhancements but otherwise I can't think of one
Cameras - no, I have a $800 Nikon DSLR that works exactly the same as it did the day I bought it. Wish I had the features of the new D3100 but alas that would be a separate purchase.
Online storage - somewhat but additional features are often optional for an additional fee (more storage, multiple FTP accounts, map to drive access...)


----------



## zalusky

What has Tivo done in the last 5 years that makes you want to buy the latest product!

At least with Apple they have provided a whole eco system.
With TV manufacturers we have internet connections, 240HZ, 3D.
With Phone manufacturers there are myriads of new products every year.
And with all of these the prices have been falling.

I think most people would absolutely spend the bucks to upgrade and not complain one bit just like they do with Apple but we dont see anything we want to upgrade too!

If they had a server product, if they had a streaming product, if they had ....
Perhaps if they had a product with apps that could increase innovation.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Riverdome said:


> I am having a hard time understanding how non-Premiere owners can be upset with this announcement. If you don't want to spend the $$ to be on the latest release of a product then you can't expect additional features beyond what was a part of your original purchase. I don't own a Premiere or an iPad but this new feature made me consider upgrading, which was why Tivo spent the time/$$ on developing the app, right.


As aindik pointed out, it's because the Tivo HDs were the only box you could buy as little as 8 months ago, and were still widely available throughout the summer on clearance. Not to mention that people pay good money to Tivo for service.

It's pretty sad when you basically thumb your nose at recent consumers of your product, but I get that they would want to pump up sales of a new box that I'm sure has sold far below expectations.


----------



## Fofer

zalusky said:


> What has Tivo done in the last 5 years that makes you want to buy the latest product!


Zilch. This iPad app is a wee bit compelling, but it's interesting to note that much of it's interest stems from the fact that it makes up for the god-awful slow _native_ interface on the Premiere. Two steps back, one step forward. Not good enough.

TiVo's inability to skate with current tech, their inability to ever graduate the TiVo HD or Series 3 to true high def menus, their inability to continue evolving the core OS with intelligent scheduling features, and piss-poor SDV situation, that TiVo owners still deal with copyright issues preventing MRV, and the tech doesn't have an integrated Slingplayer-like capability...so much of it reeks of a struggling company, teetering on the brink of irrelevancy.

At the price points we're paying (and the monthly fees,) I don't expect these compromises. I'm happy to pay a premium for a premium product that has none of these infuriating shortcomings.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

sac84371 said:


> The Tivo HD is more than capable of supporting the IPAD app. The processing power is largely done on the IPAD not the Tivo. Additionally there are other apps that allow you to control your Tivo through your Iphone, Ipad or Itouch which allow you to control your Tivo and all of its functions through those I devices.


the hardware is capable and many of the functions like set a recording can likely be done that way.

however there are software hooks like the scroll through a show with your finger on the iPad that are not in the software for the S3 models. The premiere is all about getting things out a lot faster than before. Clearly there is a whole new set of APIs in the premiere that are not coded back into the S3 code base yet. None of us have any real idea on how much effort that would be to get the S3 code base similar.

Frankly I think TiVo is far better off just moving forward with the premiere code base for apps like these. If it is actual content (like Hulu Plus) then S3 owners should get access to that.

if they did a new Netflix interface on the Premiere only or via this iPad/premiere mashup I would not blink an eye. Moving forward while leaving your legacy behind is what TiVo will have to do to gain their old momentum back. This iPad app is a great start.

It will likely sell me an iPad when they hit the bargain bin, though new model iPad is not till next spring 

This is where they should have used the tagline, "The DVR was just the beginning" BTW.

ETA - oh and yes, TiVo needs to keep working on the UI on the premiere. Though for me God awful is not the adjective for fraction of a second delays on some screens.


----------



## Joe3

zalusky said:


> What has Tivo done in the last 5 years that makes you want to buy the latest product!


True, but I see them all big eyed trapped in their 3rd world tech crib in some undernourished CPU infested orphanage and I just want to cry and take them home~~


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

I want to watch my TiVo from anywhere in the world with my iOS device, such as iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch without slingbox.


----------



## Fofer

MediaLivingRoom said:


> I want to watch my TiVo from anywhere in the world with my iOS device, such as iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch without slingbox.


Yes!

This is the sort of thing TiVo should have been able to do... in 2008.

Instead we get half-baked UI, more restrictions and more advertising.


----------



## bigpatky

MediaLivingRoom said:


> I want to watch my TiVo from anywhere in the world with my iOS device, such as iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch without slingbox.


i'd settle for _full, real time_ remote dvr management.


----------



## bradleys

I understand why they focused on the Premier. From what I can see, the big capability that is missing to make this work on the Series 3 platform is remote by IP. They may choose to add that funtionality to the Series 3 platform later, they may not... I do not think hardware would be a limitation in this case...

What I did not see and what I hope to see in the future is Tivotogo/MRV functionality. I would love to be able to initiate a transfer from Unit A to Unit B or from Unit A to a Computer...

If they add Series 3 units and add MRV functionality in the future, this will be a big win... 

Either way, I am happy to see them deliver this product and look forward to getting my hands on it!


----------



## ZeoTiVo

bradleys said:


> What I did not see and what I hope to see in the future is Tivotogo/MRV functionality. I would love to be able to initiate a transfer from Unit A to Unit B or from Unit A to a Computer...


I wondered about that - since you can see now playing list for any Premiere - does it include browsing other TiVo DVRs and initiating a transfer?


----------



## ZeoTiVo

bradleys said:


> I understand why they focused on the Premier. From what I can see, the big capability that is missing to make this work on the Series 3 platform is remote by IP.


that has actually been in place for some time to support high end theater setups


----------



## Riverdome

zalusky said:


> What has Tivo done in the last 5 years that makes you want to buy the latest product!


That's the whole point. If you never had a reason to buy a Premier that's fine - fwiw I never bought one either. But to expect a new development to be deployed to the current generation hardware AND previous models just doesn't make business sense. If Tivo's history of slow development is enough to keep you from buying new boxes that's fine, just don't expect what little they develope to be designed to run on anything other than the latest/greatest.

I agree remote viewing and remote mgmt should be features built into Tivo. That said if they develope such a solution tomorrow and only make it available with a new S5 box I'm ok with that too. If I want the feature bad enough I'll buy it, I'm not looking for a handout.


----------



## Dan203

bradleys said:


> the big capability that is missing to make this work on the Series 3 platform is remote by IP.


Actually S3 units have had the ability to receive IP based remote commands since the beginning. There is actually an iPhone app that's been out for years that allows you to control your TiVo via wifi.

There is nothing that would prevent them from making this fully functional on S3/HD units, they're not doing it because of marketing. They need to offer exclusive features on the Premiere to get people to upgrade. I'm betting this is just the start. We'll probably see a lot more Premiere exclusive features in the future. I just hope they actually finish the UI before they start getting too app happy.

Dan


----------



## Fofer

Dan203 said:


> Actually S3 units have had the ability to receive IP based remote commands since the beginning. There is actually an iPhone app that's been out for years that allows you to control your TiVo via wifi.
> 
> There is nothing that would prevent them from making this fully functional on S3/HD units, they're not doing it because of marketing. They need to offer exclusive features on the Premiere to get people to upgrade. I'm betting this is just the start. We'll probably see a lot more Premiere exclusive features in the future. I just hope they actually finish the UI before they start getting too app happy.
> 
> Dan


There are limits to the IP control on the S3/HD units, though. No keyboarding, for example... all that iPhone app does is (intelligently) move up, down, right and left.

I think IP control must be more robust on the Premiere, which allows of things like discrete alphanumeric entry, and timeline scrubbing, and one tap to start playback of a show in the NP list. None of that works with any IP control solution for the S3/HD.


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> Actually S3 units have had the ability to receive IP based remote commands since the beginning. There is actually an iPhone app that's been out for years that allows you to control your TiVo via wifi.
> 
> There is nothing that would prevent them from making this fully functional on S3/HD units, they're not doing it because of marketing. They need to offer exclusive features on the Premiere to get people to upgrade. I'm betting this is just the start. We'll probably see a lot more Premiere exclusive features in the future. I just hope they actually finish the UI before they start getting too app happy.
> 
> Dan


OK,

That wasn't my understanding... I remember when the new Premier came out, the developers were going gaga over the ability to telnet into the Premier box and replicate all of the remote commands.

It was my understanding that this was new functionality in the Premier.

Technically, what I am wondering is what else the Premier box is doing other than accepting commands from the IPAD.

I see the ability to view and manage your season passes - but we can do that from the internet, so I doubt that is being done locally. The only service that "seems" to come directly from your local TIVO is the ability to browse your recorded shows.

There could be more but we won't know until we can get our hands on it.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

ZeoTiVo said:


> the hardware is capable and many of the functions like set a recording can likely be done that way.
> 
> however there are software hooks like the scroll through a show with your finger on the iPad that are not in the software for the S3 models. The premiere is all about getting things out a lot faster than before. Clearly there is a whole new set of APIs in the premiere that are not coded back into the S3 code base yet. None of us have any real idea on how much effort that would be to get the S3 code base similar.
> 
> Frankly I think TiVo is far better off just moving forward with the premiere code base for apps like these. If it is actual content (like Hulu Plus) then S3 owners should get access to that.
> 
> if they did a new Netflix interface on the Premiere only or via this iPad/premiere mashup I would not blink an eye. Moving forward while leaving your legacy behind is what TiVo will have to do to gain their old momentum back. This iPad app is a great start.
> 
> It will likely sell me an iPad when they hit the bargain bin, though new model iPad is not till next spring
> 
> This is where they should have used the tagline, "The DVR was just the beginning" BTW.
> 
> ETA - oh and yes, TiVo needs to keep working on the UI on the premiere. Though for me God awful is not the adjective for fraction of a second delays on some screens.


quoted to save me from retyping the above 



Fofer said:


> There are limits to the IP control on the S3/HD units, though. No keyboarding, for example... all that iPhone app does is (intelligently) move up, down, right and left.
> 
> I think IP control must be more robust on the Premiere, which allows of things like discrete alphanumeric entry, and timeline scrubbing, and one tap to start playback of a show in the NP list. None of that works with any IP control solution for the S3/HD.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

bradleys said:


> OK,
> 
> That wasn't my understanding... I remember when the new Premier came out, the developers were going gaga over the ability to telnet into the Premier box and replicate all of the remote commands.
> 
> It was my understanding that this was new functionality in the Premier.
> 
> Technically, what I am wondering is what else the Premier box is doing other than accepting commands from the IPAD.


The IP remote functions are in S3 models in a remote input 1.0 version
it is how the premiere is accepting the commands in a remote input 2.0 version that the S3 models lack - in a word, *software*.


----------



## markp99

2013 - Thanksgiving


----------



## innocentfreak

bradleys said:


> OK,
> 
> That wasn't my understanding... I remember when the new Premier came out, the developers were going gaga over the ability to telnet into the Premier box and replicate all of the remote commands.
> 
> It was my understanding that this was new functionality in the Premier.


I think you are thinking about the wireless keyboard controls people found it supported. It didn't work on the HD until they rolled out an update to support the slide.


----------



## Fofer

...but those were via Bluetooth, not IP, right?


----------



## innocentfreak

Well via USB adapter which is why you could use any wireless keyboard if you wanted. Not all keys matched up exactly though. 

Until we get the update though which enables the support we have no idea what will be via IP and what will be via the TiVo servers. It must be some new hooks though since you can't do most of this currently. I think if you could currently scroll through a recording currently like they show in the video people would have made a bigger deal about it.


----------



## bradleys

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=392385&highlight=Telnet

I was wrong, the IP control was included the series 3.

mmm, it would be interesting to know what the series 3 does not offer to include this functionality.


----------



## mattack

OK, this wasn't obvious to me at first (especially due to some wording in one of the descriptions), but it does support multiple Tivos.. looks like the top left is a popup to choose which Tivo to use.


----------



## Fofer

bradleys said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=392385&highlight=Telnet
> 
> I was wrong, the IP control was included the series 3.
> 
> mmm, it would be interesting to know what the series 3 does not offer to include this functionality.


What it does not offer? It doesn't offer that... it's old hardware already purchased, and TiVo needs to drive sales to new hardware and new subscriptions in order to stay in business, that's all. They structured their business poorly and aren't able to survive on current subscriptions alone.

There is absolutely no reason they couldn't code the same IP control into the Series 3. It's just not a priority to them and they don't have the resources to devote to it.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

mattack said:


> OK, this wasn't obvious to me at first (especially due to some wording in one of the descriptions), but it does support multiple Tivos.. looks like the top left is a popup to choose which Tivo to use.


which is why I like this. The big drawback of the Qwerty bluetooth remote is you could not control different TiVo DVRs even for just simple remote command stuff.
Add in all the guide data searchability and ease of setting up a recording - sold.


----------



## Fofer

mattack said:


> OK, this wasn't obvious to me at first (especially due to some wording in one of the descriptions), but it does support multiple Tivos.. looks like the top left is a popup to choose which Tivo to use.


That's certainly a relief. The Premiere has many less outputs to than my Series 3 does, so if (hell froze over and) I considered "upgrading" to a Premiere, I'd probably have to get a couple, so I could keep serving all of my TV's. (My current home setup has one upgraded S3 serving 4 TV's, actually. Thankfully this means no "MRV issues.") So at least I'd know I could use this one iPad app to control them all


----------



## bradleys

Fofer said:


> What it does not offer? It doesn't offer that... it's old hardware already purchased, and TiVo needs ti drive sales to new hardware in order to stay in business, that's all. They structured their business poorly and aren't able to survive on current subscriptions alone.
> 
> There is absolutely no reason they couldn't code the same IP control into the Series 3. It's just not a priority to them and they don't have the resources to devote to it.


I doubt it is that simple. TiVo generally includes new functionality to legacy models if it does not require rework of that platform. If this worked directly out of the box then they would include the series 3's.


----------



## Fofer

They should never have abandoned the S3 and TiVoHD in the first place. They should have continued to fine-tune the original OS and the original UI. The "Premiere" Flash-based reboot is a non-starter for many, a completely unusable disappointment.

What really happened there, did they lose the development team that worked on the first TiVo OS, and find themselves having to start all over? 

What a sad turn of events for a company that showed so much promise, years ago.  :down:


----------



## innocentfreak

Fofer said:


> What really happened there, did they lose the development team that worked on the first TiVo OS, and find themselves having to start all over?
> 
> What a sad turn of events for a company that showed so much promise, years ago.  :down:


Actually I believe they stated in an interview the change was due to the fact adding things was nearly impossible due to the coding and hooks of the old UI. I want to say this is why they said they hadn't added things like the free space indicator in the old UI.


----------



## yunlin12

I think the iPad app is not just targeted at the current Premiere users, but also the upcoming RCN/Virgin/etc users who will have DVR's based on the Premiere. This is a forward looking move by Tivo that helps their partners like RCN compete better with Comcast/Dish who are also pushing ipad/android apps for their DVR's.


----------



## magnus

This is cool but I really wish that I could use my iTouch and not have to buy something new to use it.


----------



## innocentfreak

magnus said:


> This is cool but I really wish that I could use my iTouch and not have to buy something new to use it.


I wouldn't write-off an app for other devices yet though TiVo is quiet on it. If anything it gives them a test bed while also potentially allowing them to see what features are used most for a slimmed down version on the other devices due to smaller screens.

To quote Dave Zatz


> Additionally, TiVo has nothing to say at this time regarding other mobile devices or platforms. Although anything destined for a smaller screen iPhone or Android handset would surely require a reworked UI given how much theyve packed in.


----------



## seattlewendell

I am so tired of Tivo and their "coming soon" nonsense. Everything with Tivo is "coming soon". This is the slowest company on the planet. Tivo ipad App coming soon means 2012. Good luck with that.


----------



## Xecuter2

Why would they design their app to the tivo platform specific?


----------



## Fofer

seattlewendell said:


> I am so tired of Tivo and their "coming soon" nonsense. Everything with Tivo is "coming soon". This is the slowest company on the planet. Tivo ipad App coming soon means 2012. Good luck with that.


LOL. So true.


----------



## magnus

I'm not sure what you are asking here but.... wouldn't it be because they are Tivo? Why would their app work for a Dish or Directv DVR?



Xecuter2 said:


> Why would they design their app to the tivo platform specific?


----------



## segaily

magnus said:


> I'm not sure what you are asking here but.... wouldn't it be because they are Tivo? Why would their app work for a Dish or Directv DVR?


Actually if they could get some level of limited functionality for other DVRs and older TiVos it could be a good marketing tool. People would use it but hit functions that pop up and say feature only available on TiVo premiere. It would let people see what they are missing out on.


----------



## Caris

This app isn't even available yet. I just searched for it on my Ipad and when I couldn't find it I went to the Tivo website and it says 'Coming soon'.


----------



## Fofer

Yeah, knowing TiVo it'll be out in 2012 and by then a newer device will be out that has made the Premiere even more obsolete.


----------



## chg

seattlewendell said:


> I am so tired of Tivo and their "coming soon" nonsense. Everything with Tivo is "coming soon". This is the slowest company on the planet. Tivo ipad App coming soon means 2012. Good luck with that.


This sounds just like what people say about Dish.

I am not sure which company is worse.


----------



## bradleys

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2010-11/tivo-announces-supercharged-ipad-remote-app/



> In talking to TiVo, Premiere DVR hardware will see a software update to support the new app. And, given what it does, they've obviously added a slew of new hooks accessible via WiFi. Although it's yet to be seen if third party developers will be able to tap into them.


It appears that the Premier will need a software update in order to support the iPAD app. I suppose it is not out of the realm of possibility that TiVo will follow with an update for the series 3/HD platform. Maybe a little pressure from owners will help 

I do find the idea of leveraging these added hooks interesting!

As for the IPad, if they want to be really cutting edge - allow the user to move a recording from the the TiVo to the iPad in proper resolution from the app! Streaming would be cool as well but I tend to think that is pie-in-the-sky.

I have been planning to replace the series 2 for a while, so this looks like a good time to pull the trigger. I will not be replacing my series 3 or HD models anytime soon.


----------



## lrhorer

wp746911 said:


> 1)Despite all the whining, this is nothing but a GOOD thing tivo has done.


First of all, "good" is a relative thing, and largely in the eye of the beholder. For this of us without iPads and Premiers, it's much more of a, "So what?" sort of thing, unless of course they port this to the PC and the S3.



wp746911 said:


> 2)That being said, I do agree with some questions about priorities- what about the HD interface in the premiere? Dual core? Etc? The ipad is a great product but the majority of us dont have one...


The majority of us don't have Premiers, either. The number of us who have both is undoubtably tiny. This may fall short of causing it to be a "bad" thing, but I question just how "good" it really is if almost no one can make use of it, when compared with the same functionality being more broadly based.


----------



## lrhorer

seattlewendell said:


> I am so tired of Tivo and their "coming soon" nonsense. Everything with Tivo is "coming soon". This is the slowest company on the planet.


Hardly, but even if it were true, I'll take a company any day and twice on Sunday whose features are slow in coming along with being stable and reliable over one which releases a new series of bugs every six weeks. 'Back in fidonet days, there was a mail tosser everyone raved about because the author released a new version every few days. It was always buggy as hell. There was a competitive tosser that had as many great features, but didn't get any press because it was released day 1 being 100% bug free and substantially complete. People pooh-poohed it because it was "old". Moronic.


----------



## Fofer

Well, when TiVo announces it has "reinvented" the DVR ... and then unleashes the unfinished pile of turd that is the Premiere ... what else are we supposed to think?


----------



## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> Well, when TiVo announces it has "reinvented" the DVR ... and then unleashes the unfinished pile of turd that is the Premiere ... what else are we supposed to think?


I'll allow you that one - at least to an extent. I don't see it's being "unfinished" as it were, a very big deal. I do think it was foolish to build up such a fart-cloud of hype no matter what the product had been. I do think they should have put much more "oomph" into the Premier than they did. Other than speed, the Premier has nothing to recommend it, and a fair amount to wreck it as a contender in the stand alone DVR arena. It's the whole S1 => S2 debacle all over again. OTOH, that very history might portend well for the S5. Probbaly about the time the S5 is announced is when I would actually consider an upgrade, in the first place. Right now, the Premier could have been made of solid gold, metaphorically speaking, and I would not consider upgrading at this time. That said, and even though I would not have been being buying one myself, at least I could in good conscience recommend one to a new buyer. I'm hard pressed to do that with the Premier.


----------



## seattlewendell

lrhorer said:


> Hardly, but even if it were true, I'll take a company any day and twice on Sunday whose features are slow in coming along with being stable and reliable over one which releases a new series of bugs every six weeks. 'Back in fidonet days, there was a mail tosser everyone raved about because the author released a new version every few days. It was always buggy as hell. There was a competitive tosser that had as many great features, but didn't get any press because it was released day 1 being 100% bug free and substantially complete. People pooh-poohed it because it was "old". Moronic.


I'm sorry I use a "Tivo". Maybe you've heard of it. Series 3. Four years later it still full of bugs that they have no intention of fixing. My favorite is; delete one show from a folder and the folder shows "0 shows", despite the fact that there are 9 shows still in the folder. Scroll out of the folder and back and and 'tadah'!!! you're shows have returned. Classic. I love this "stable and reliable" product you keep talking about.


----------



## dswallow

seattlewendell said:


> My favorite is; delete one show from a folder and the folder shows "0 shows", despite the fact that there are 9 shows still in the folder. Scroll out of the folder and back and and 'tadah'!!! you're shows have returned. Classic. I love this "stable and reliable" product you keep talking about.


While I've seen what you're referring to, I've never seen it not update itself if you stay in the folder for a few seconds.

Similarly you can get ahead of some buffered operations and then end up being moved back a step... Finish watching a show, delete it, the go immediately play another show. Sometimes you end up back at the menu as the "delete" ends up sending some sort of "I'm done and ready for another operation" message that brings the unit back to the menu, even though you've moved past that point already. Kinda annoying, I suppose... though pretty obvious what the bug is all about (and how simple it would be to fix).


----------



## slowbiscuit

I've never seen the delete bug in a folder, and I've deleted TONS of shows in them. wendell needs to expand on the 'tons of bugs' he finds in the S3s because I just don't see them in the HDs. The boxes are rock-solid reliable for me.


----------



## lrhorer

seattlewendell said:


> I'm sorry I use a "Tivo". Maybe you've heard of it. Series 3. Four years later it still full of bugs that they have no intention of fixing. My favorite is; delete one show from a folder and the folder shows "0 shows", despite the fact that there are 9 shows still in the folder. Scroll out of the folder and back and and 'tadah'!!! you're shows have returned. Classic. I love this "stable and reliable" product you keep talking about.


Yes, I've seen that bug. Whether they have any intention of fixing it, I have no idea, but I also could hardly care less. Although puzzling, it doesn't impair the functioning oft he TiVo at all, nor does it impact stability or reliability. It doesn't hinder the unit from recording or playing back videos. It doesn't interrupt any networking process. It doesn't require a reboot or even shutting down and restarting any process. If you are going to hold out for a product that is bug free, then you are going to be unable to purchase anything more sophisticated than a hammer. S3 TiVos keep chugging, months on end, with few problems. Compare that with the average PC running Windows, which has trouble making it through an entire week without a reboot.


----------



## steve614

lrhorer said:


> Compare that with the average PC running Windows, which has trouble making it through an entire week without a reboot.


People are going to have to stop using this comparison, or at least use it with the disclaimer "with the exception of Windows 7".


----------



## lrhorer

slowbiscuit said:


> I've never seen the delete bug in a folder, and I've deleted TONS of shows in them.


Oh, I've seen it now and then. In fact, it happened to me just before thanksgiving. This is anecdotal, but I think it may be more likely in a folder containing both scheduled recordings and Suggestions. It's truly no big deal. Pressing the left arrow and then the right arrow clears it. It probably happens less than once a month.



slowbiscuit said:


> wendell needs to expand on the 'tons of bugs' he finds in the S3s


Or not. If the empty folder bug is the most egregious example he has to present, then I would rather not have to address anything even more trivial. I would prefer he just got a life. I'm am curious what scale he is using that measures a ton when the TiVo's bugs are set upon it, though.



slowbiscuit said:


> because I just don't see them in the HDs. The boxes are rock-solid reliable for me.


Even rocks have flaws, but I agree. It's a highly stable platform. Compared with the widely deployed Cisco SA8300HDC, for example, running either Passport or especially SARA software, it's the Rock of Gibraltar.


----------



## lrhorer

steve614 said:


> People are going to have to stop using this comparison, or at least use it with the disclaimer "with the exception of Windows 7".


Which won't boot at all on a wide variety of hardware? Right now, I can't make a valid judgement of its stability. One of these days, I suppose, I will be forced to try it, and I'll make my call then. Meanwhile, I have never had any version of Windows remain stable for more than 6 weeks after installation. The install on the machine at which I am sitting now went unstable before the install was even complete.

Edit: Oh, and BTW, since I said " the average PC", the disclaimer is not actually necessary, in any case. The average PC runs Windows, but not Win7.


----------



## lrhorer

dswallow said:


> While I've seen what you're referring to, I've never seen it not update itself if you stay in the folder for a few seconds.


Oh, really? I've never given it enough time, I suppose. When it pops up, I always give it a quick left and then a quick right, so I've never seen it recover automatically.


----------



## Velvetme

The premiere is my first TiVo and as an iPad owner I specifically requested this feature in the recent survey. Sorry to those excluded, unhappy, uneducated but hey; it's FREE. 

And it will run (hopefully) 20x faster than the built in UI

I have the iPad in my hand almost constantly when the tv is on anyway so it is win-win for me. Go buy something that does what you want, or don't. Stay behind the curve and continue to bellyache over missing functions and the passing of an unapologetic grandfather time. I'm glad everyone has a place to bellyache in the first place but I am thankful that my money was well spent on both my TiVo and my iPad !!!!


----------



## innocentfreak

I doubt it will run 20x faster. You may want to watch the video again especially around the 20 second mark where it shows the loading screen. Make sure you watch the guys hands.


----------



## Fofer

Velvetme said:


> The premiere is my first TiVo and as an iPad owner I specifically requested this feature in the recent survey. Sorry to those excluded, unhappy, uneducated but hey; it's FREE.
> 
> And it will run (hopefully) 20x faster than the built in UI
> 
> I have the iPad in my hand almost constantly when the tv is on anyway so it is win-win for me. Go buy something that does what you want, or don't. Stay behind the curve and continue to bellyache over missing functions and the passing of an unapologetic grandfather time. I'm glad everyone has a place to bellyache in the first place but I am thankful that my money was well spent on both my TiVo and my iPad !!!!


LOL, nice response. You bought a dud unit, a complete step backwards from the promising TiVo's the company used to make, and now you're thankful that there's a free app that is supposed to provide you with some salvation? You're hoping it's 20x faster than the built-in UI... because, well, it's 15x slower than other DVRs out there, including "older" ones from the company you foolishly applaud!

Buying the newest isn't always the greatest. Smart early adopters know this. And if the Premiere is your first TiVo, I'd hardly say you're "ahead of the curve." You missed the boat on the good TiVos and are now getting a consolation prize from a dying company. Money well spent? Indeed. Enjoy your "Premiere." LOL


----------



## markp99

Hmm, I find the use model provided by the iPad app perfectly acceptable. Why not share TiVo duty/function with the iPad to maximize his user experience? 

20X? Probably not. But enhanced, for sure. Why not move access to TiVo functionality to a new, more logical interface (iPad touch screen)? The Peanut remote, even with a keypad was not really made for this sort of stuff, IMO. I too have ready access to my iPad (right next to my TiVo remote).

As a Series 3 owner; I'd like to get me "some of that", but I guess I don't feel the same disappointment as others. I am as happy with my TiVo as I have ever been. It does everything I need it to do (and everything I paid for).


----------



## markp99

Oh, and Fofer, we get it: You're not happy w/TiVo.


----------



## Fofer

Okay markp99, we get it: you're perfectly satisfied w/TiVo. 

Good thing this discussion forum allows for the airing of different opinions about such subjects. :up:


----------



## nexus99

Not supporting S3 or Tivo HD = fail.
I have to get a few more years out of S3 to finally be able to justify the expense of the box. The 700 (or was it 800?) that I paid on release day takes a long time to digest. If I get 8 years out of the box that will still be a cost of 100/year. Thats pretty damn expensive for the hardware! Hopefully it lasts till the Premier 2 (new with a real processor, 3 tuners, and streaming goodies!) is released.


----------



## innocentfreak

TiVoDesign on Twitter asks which device would you next like to see run a TiVo app similar to the iPad app?


----------



## aindik

innocentfreak said:


> TiVoDesign on Twitter asks which device would you next like to see run a TiVo app similar to the iPad app?


I think we should probably see it actually run on the iPad first.


----------



## Fofer

Which device? Let's see the iPad app control devices other than the Premiere, like the Series 3 and TiVo HD. I'd like to see that.


----------



## innocentfreak

aindik said:


> I think we should probably see it actually run on the iPad first.


My guess is that it may be releasing soon so they are looking to see what other platforms to start working on whether it be iPhones or Android, etc.

Personally I am hoping for a new version of TiVo Desktop that integrates the iPad app. I doubt we will see it though since TiVo Desktop only seems to get bugfixes.


----------



## RoyK

Umm how about fixing the TIVO first?


----------



## SullyND

innocentfreak said:


> TiVoDesign on Twitter asks which device would you next like to see run a TiVo app similar to the iPad app?


How about a web app?


----------



## dswallow

aindik said:


> I think we should probably see it actually run on the iPad first.


Really. Will Apple even approve a half-finished app?


----------



## Ruth

MediaLivingRoom said:


> I want to watch my TiVo from anywhere in the world with my iOS device, such as iPad, iPhone, iPod Touch without slingbox.


Yes indeed.

And I want to be able to manage my shows from anywhere (including deleting items from Now Playing and To Do). The online management features are basically worthless without remote deletion capacities.


----------



## magnus

dswallow said:


> Really. Will Apple even approve a half-finished app?


----------



## caddyroger

By tivo working on ipads apps instead of getting the HDUI to work as advertised I will not buy or recommend people to buy tivo. By tivo doing this I get the impression that tivo is saying the hell with the owners that bought the premiere for the HDUI. We got the money so we do not need to work it any more. 8 months after start and they still do not have the HDUI to work property but yet are able work on ipads apps and Hulu plus


----------



## Fofer

^^ preach it, brother. I'd be all over upgrading hardware if I got the sense TiVo knew how to prioritize. 

I have an iPad, I'd love this solution... if only it didn't require me to essentially downgrade my DVR to one that's decidedly half-baked, and has an incomplete, poorly designed UI.


----------



## SullyND

Fofer said:


> I have an iPad, I'd love this solution... if only it didn't require me to essentially downgrade my DVR to one that's decidedly half-baked, and has an incomplete, poorly designed UI.


You know you don't have to use the HDUI, and there are other advantages of the Premiere over the S3 right?


----------



## Fofer

Like what?


----------



## caddyroger

SullyND said:


> You know you don't have to use the HDUI, and there are other advantages of the Premiere over the S3 right?


On the tivo web site It reads this under The premiere
New HD user interface for optimized search & discovery
What good is it if I can not use it. That could be false advertising. Sure it has other features but is it worth $300 to 
$400. more for it. 
If I knew what I know now I would have bought a HD put in 1tb hard drive and have the same thing as I got with premiere but cheaper.


----------



## SullyND

Fofer said:


> Like what?


Networking is faster, for one.


----------



## Fofer

Heh.

That's like saying "Twinkies - New and improved - Now 10% less sugar"

Networking _has_ to be faster because networking on the previous boxes has been sort of a joke.

Considering TiVo's abysmal record with TiVo Desktop for Mac, and considering how the copyright flags seriously cripple the promise of it's availability/functionality, well, "faster networking" means nothing to me. I want real innovation and performance from a box that feels like it was built in 2010. Not tacked on, marginal improvements. Real seismic shifts that earn it the title of "best DVR on the planet."

When TiVo first came out, it felt like it was a product from the future. Seriously ahead of it's time. It's just sad to see the platform essentially languish all this time, what, 10 years later, each new announcement and release a sad gasp for relevance.


----------



## seattlewendell

lrhorer said:


> Oh, I've seen it now and then. In fact, it happened to me just before thanksgiving. This is anecdotal, but I think it may be more likely in a folder containing both scheduled recordings and Suggestions. It's truly no big deal. Pressing the left arrow and then the right arrow clears it. It probably happens less than once a month.
> 
> Or not. If the empty folder bug is the most egregious example he has to present, then I would rather not have to address anything even more trivial. I would prefer he just got a life. I'm am curious what scale he is using that measures a ton when the TiVo's bugs are set upon it, though.
> 
> Even rocks have flaws, but I agree. It's a highly stable platform. Compared with the widely deployed Cisco SA8300HDC, for example, running either Passport or especially SARA software, it's the Rock of Gibraltar.


oh snap. Well I guess you told me. I guess I should stop forcing you to respond to my post, and that would solve everything. You really need to get hold of your life.


----------



## orangeboy

seattlewendell said:


> oh snap. Well I guess you told me. I guess I should stop forcing you to respond to my post, and that would solve everything. You really need to get hold of your life.


Wasn't that in reply to slowbiscuit, and not you?


----------



## wkearney99

seattlewendell said:


> I'm sorry I use a "Tivo". Maybe you've heard of it. Series 3. Four years later it still full of bugs that they have no intention of fixing. My favorite is; delete one show from a folder and the folder shows "0 shows", despite the fact that there are 9 shows still in the folder. Scroll out of the folder and back and and 'tadah'!!! you're shows have returned. Classic. I love this "stable and reliable" product you keep talking about.


Stable and plenty reliable, just slow at times. I've seen the folder go empty thing once in a while. Typically it comes up when I've been slashing through and deleting a bunch of stuff beforehand. There seems to be a mismatch with whatever background thread is handling the housekeeping for them with the active UI thread (or something to that effect). Meanwhile the programs are all there, nothing lost at all.

So if you're going to make snarky comments, at least be accurate.


----------



## wkearney99

seattlewendell said:


> You really need to get hold of your life.


Pot... meet kettle.


----------



## aadam101

It seems Tivo is celebrating the "release" of the app.......

http://www.facebook.com/TiVo?v=app_103890722979364


----------



## weldon

This app actually has me thinking about buying a Premiere to replace my TiVo HD. I've been feeling like the 160GB drive isn't big enough lately, and I might as well spend the money for a drive upgrade on a Premiere....


----------



## Fofer

Exactly what TiVo's hoping for! Just be aware, the Premiere might not perform as well as the TiVo HD. The iPad app is nice, sure, but at what expense?


----------



## c.hack

Be careful about TiVo releasing anything. The app may not come out for 2 years at TiVo's glacial pace. I'm still waiting for dual processor support on the Premiere. They always over-promise and under-deliver.


----------



## TVCricket

Maybe they'll finally activate the 2nd processor once the app is out. Or maybe not.


----------



## Joe3

Abuse and neglect is a tragic tale, someone call 911.


----------



## DeWitt

Don't forget the app needs to pass apple certification before it is posted to the app store. Just got my iPad (No not just for the Tivo app...) and I am looking forward to giving it a spin.


----------



## Fofer

TVCricket said:


> Maybe they'll finally activate the 2nd processor once the app is out. Or maybe not.


The app might be their excuse why such support is no longer "needed."


----------



## aadam101

The newest Tivo News email talks about the app. Is it normal for an app to get this much attention before it's even released????? I can't think of any other company that operates this way.


----------



## SullyND

Doesn't the APP need 14.7 to work? Looks like it's starting to rollout, right?


----------



## innocentfreak

It definitely needs an update per TiVo's comments when they announced the app. I haven't seen any reports of 14.7 appearing on any boxes though.

I guess they are starting to come in though. got 14.7


----------



## Andrel

aadam101 said:


> The newest Tivo News email talks about the app. Is it normal for an app to get this much attention before it's even released????? I can't think of any other company that operates this way.


Other than Apple, Microsoft, GM, Sony, etc... No, I can't think of any


----------



## DeWitt

There are reports in the Premiere forum of 14.7 starting to arrive.


----------



## WizarDru

Looking forward to this, actually. I have a Premiere and I have an iPad.

I'd love if they activated that other processor, regardless.


----------



## aadam101

Andrel said:


> Other than Apple, Microsoft, GM, Sony, etc... No, I can't think of any


Not for iPhone apps though. Third parties often promote apps before they are released but I can't think of any company that uses an unreleased app as a selling point.


----------



## edgebert

No, I don't think so, not just yet...he might be OK
If the iPad app meets expectations, TiVo could be out in front for the 1st time since they got the scoop on commercial skipping, & I don't think that's such a big "IF"


----------



## SafariKC

edgebert said:


> No, I don't think so, not just yet...he might be OK
> If the iPad app meets expectations, TiVo could be out in front for the 1st time since they got the scoop on commercial skipping, & I don't think that's such a big "IF"


Out in front of What? Have you seen the Comcast Xfinity, Dish, and coming Verizon Fios app? They are catching up, and with no video streaming announced or in sight, they will soon be behind again.

Don't get me wrong, love my TiVo, but this company hasn't released anything truly innovative since the first unit shipped.


----------



## jayn_j

aadam101 said:


> Not for iPhone apps though. Third parties often promote apps before they are released but I can't think of any company that uses an unreleased app as a selling point.


Like GM and the Chevy Volt, or Nissan and the Leaf? I've been listening to those "We are working on these really cool energy efficient cars to be released later, so why not buy a Malibu now?" ads.


----------



## seattlewendell

wkearney99 said:


> Stable and plenty reliable, just slow at times. I've seen the folder go empty thing once in a while. Typically it comes up when I've been slashing through and deleting a bunch of stuff beforehand. There seems to be a mismatch with whatever background thread is handling the housekeeping for them with the active UI thread (or something to that effect). Meanwhile the programs are all there, nothing lost at all.
> 
> So if you're going to make snarky comments, at least be accurate.


Just because mediocrity has been excepted as the standard does not make anything I said inaccurate.


----------



## seattlewendell

edgebert said:


> No, I don't think so, not just yet...he might be OK
> If the iPad app meets expectations, TiVo could be out in front for the 1st time since they got the scoop on commercial skipping, & I don't think that's such a big "IF"


Clearly you have not seen the Xfinity app from Comcast. 
http://www.xfinity.com/help/internet/mobile-tv-app/


----------



## aadam101

jayn_j said:


> Like GM and the Chevy Volt, or Nissan and the Leaf? I've been listening to those "We are working on these really cool energy efficient cars to be released later, so why not buy a Malibu now?" ads.


I wasn't aware of this. That's kinda different than Tivo's situation but even more absurd!


----------



## Popasmurf

I wish they did an app for the Android


----------



## innocentfreak

TiVodesign sent out a tweet that 14.7 is rolling out and should hit everyone by next week. 

Also the iPad app should be out by the end of this month.


----------



## landrvr1

Wow. Just friggin amazing that they don't at least have an app for the HDs.

Utter and complete FAIL on all counts.

And the amount of apologists for Tivo in this thread has reached staggering new heights. If that was even possible.

wow.

:up:


----------



## Fofer

agreed. I'd just add that along with the HD's, the Series 3's should absolutely not have been ignored, either.


----------



## bradleys

Agreed. TiVo has said that it may support the earlier models in the future, but those platforms will not be able to support all of the available iPad app functionality. I hope they do, I still have two s3 models!

But I am going to say the same thing now as I did when I first upgraded from my series 2 to series 3 model - I do not want TiVo to limit developement (or functionality) on the new hardware I bought because the earlier models won't support it.

If you want the functionality - upgrade!


----------



## innocentfreak

EngadgetHD posted a review of the iPad app for the TiVo.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/18/tivo-premiere-app-for-ipad-review/


----------



## Test

It's in the app store

I tried it out and it's very cool so far


----------



## treaty

App available in the iPad app store now. If you don't have a Premiere, don't even bother downloading it though. The App won't even load if it only detects an older model on your network. closest you're going to get to seeing what it looks like is that Engadget review above.


----------



## DeWitt

Test said:


> It's in the app store
> 
> I tried it out and it's very cool so far


Where you able to sign on remotely? I am at work, so I can't connect to my Premeires, but it won't let me sign on to my account at Tivo.com

Works fine in a browser, but not from the app.

-=Update=-
OK I found the trick. If you clik sign in after entering your email and password it will fail. You need to click the Done key on the keyboard after entering your password.


----------



## sriggins

No support for TiVo HD leaves me at the xroads that this will be my last TiVo. I have been a TiVo user since the beginning of the company, but now they've finally gone and shoved me away. Late to the iOS game by years and when they do get here, use it as a tool to push their overbloated "Premium" box. My TiVo HD works fine, except oh yeah, I cannot decide which conflict to override when I add a one time recording, that is too hard to add also, I guess. 

Ah well, it was a good 15 years, TiVo. Once this box dies, or I switch to DirecTV, our relationship will be over. Sucks, I always liked supporting the company, too, but more ads on the box, bloated menus, no app support and now that Premium UI, ugh.


----------



## Fofer

I felt exactly the same way - and it stung even more, since I paid something like $800 for the Series 3 TiVo.  

Then Woot! was selling Premiere refurbs for $65 last week. And I bought a 2TB drive to upgrade it for $80.

Yep, I got sucked back in.


----------



## xultar

bigpatky said:


> or....it's something cool for those who already own an ipad. i don't think tivo is trying to push ipad sales for apple.


Exactly. If you already have an iPad then it is only a bonus for you. Other than that it would be a no go.

My S2 broke in December and I already had an iPad so I decided to take the leap with a Premier box. But TiVo customer service was such a pain lately I returned my premier boxes.


----------



## xultar

Can you thumbs up and down on the app?


----------



## xultar

DeWitt said:


> Where you able to sign on remotely? I am at work, so I can't connect to my Premeires, but it won't let me sign on to my account at Tivo.com
> 
> Works fine in a browser, but not from the app.
> 
> -=Update=-
> OK I found the trick. If you clik sign in after entering your email and password it will fail. You need to click the Done key on the keyboard after entering your password.


did you use the correct email? There is a difference between the account email and the one you use for recording confirmations.


----------



## xultar

I'm trying to figure out how anyone can be excited about this iPad app.

It doesn't stream. That is prolly cuz of the content providers. But o.k. you can set your tivos to record stuff...but I could do that on the website from my ipad already. 

What does it do that I couldn't do from the website?


----------



## bradleys

xultar said:


> I'm trying to figure out how anyone can be excited about this iPad app.
> 
> It doesn't stream. That is prolly cuz of the content providers. But o.k. you can set your tivos to record stuff...but I could do that on the website from my ipad already.
> 
> What does it do that I couldn't do from the website?


What I am trying to figure out is why people who no longer own a TiVo hang out on TiVo user forums and bash TiVo.... Not trying to be snarky - but it does strike me as odd.

To answer your question, The Ipad app does a lot more than TiVo.com - let me try to break it down...

*INFO* - from this screen the app shows you what you are watching and provides IMDB type information. Doesn't matter if you are watching Tuner A or B or a recording - in knows what you are watching and provides that info. You can also choose to record, get more info share - all from that screen. You can select an actor and see what other movies he has been in. Gives you recommendations of similar movies...

*Guide* - From this screen you can browse the guide information. You can select a show to watch now or you can choose the record a show. Setup a season pass... etc...

*My Shows* - Presents you a list of all recordings on that TiVo (no MRV at this time)

*Browse* - Provides a similar view of Collections as in available on the TiVo

*Manage* - View and manage all of your season pass's

*Remote* - (From any screen) A pop-up screen that provides all of the functionality of the Peanut remote (Save Volume and Power for the TV)

*Search* - (From any screen) Allows you to input a search string for content and then brings up an info page. You can see if it is on TiVo or available from one of the content partners. See it on Netflix? Select watch now and the TiVo automatically responds!

It is not only a replacement for your TiVo Remote but also a replacement for practically all of the TiVo screens... Pretty much anything you would want to do in the TiVo screens you can do on the Ipad app...

Outside your home network, you still have access to the Guide Data, My Shows and Browse. And the usability is infinitely more usable than TiVo.com


----------



## ZeoTiVo

xultar said:


> I'm trying to figure out how anyone can be excited about this iPad app.


umm, folks with an iPad and a TiVo premiere would likely be excited about a 1.0 app that lets them function together. seems pretty simple to me


----------



## xultar

bradleys said:


> What I am trying to figure out is why people who no longer own a TiVo hang out on TiVo user forums and bash TiVo.... Not trying to be snarky - but it does strike me as odd.
> 
> To answer your question, The Ipad app does a lot more than TiVo.com - let me try to break it down...
> 
> *INFO* - from this screen the app shows you what you are watching and provides IMDB type information. Doesn't matter if you are watching Tuner A or B or a recording - in knows what you are watching and provides that info. You can also choose to record, get more info share - all from that screen. You can select an actor and see what other movies he has been in. Gives you recommendations of similar movies...
> 
> *Guide* - From this screen you can browse the guide information. You can select a show to watch now or you can choose the record a show. Setup a season pass... etc...
> 
> *My Shows* - Presents you a list of all recordings on that TiVo (no MRV at this time)
> 
> *Browse* - Provides a similar view of Collections as in available on the TiVo
> 
> *Manage* - View and manage all of your season pass's
> 
> *Remote* - (From any screen) A pop-up screen that provides all of the functionality of the Peanut remote (Save Volume and Power for the TV)
> 
> *Search* - (From any screen) Allows you to input a search string for content and then brings up an info page. You can see if it is on TiVo or available from one of the content partners. See it on Netflix? Select watch now and the TiVo automatically responds!
> 
> It is not only a replacement for your TiVo Remote but also a replacement for practically all of the TiVo screens... Pretty much anything you would want to do in the TiVo screens you can do on the Ipad app...
> 
> Outside your home network, you still have access to the Guide Data, My Shows and Browse. And the usability is infinitely more usable than TiVo.com


Ah that's cool. So you can thumbs up or down from the app on a show. My friend will totally dig that functionality. I can't wait to tell him. He wasn't excited about the app because he didn't think it would have this functionality. He has one slave T.V. with a Slingbox on it. He wanted to be able to deal with that TV without using the Slingbox remote in the Slingbox app which is a total pain in the arse.

How many of you have tried to use the Slingbox ipad app to do thumbs up and down? I don't know what sling was thinking with that.

As to why people who don't own a TiVo anymore come here...speaking for myself. I LOVED TiVo. It is just that their customer service through December was so disappointing at best. I'll admit to being shocked and hurt by them after many phone calls. I feel they treated their loyal customers like crap which they can hardly afford to do. With that said, I still love the product even though they are way behind technologically. If TiVo gets their customer service act together I may just purchase a box or 5.

As an iPad app enthusiast and a past writer about apps for a blog I play with the app vs website conundrum over and over again in my head. There are many apps out there that mirror website functionality. I always wonder which is better downloading the app or going to the website. For some reason to me it is like answering which comes first the chicken or the egg. So that is why I asked the question. If you need to know Homeslice.


----------



## xultar

ZeoTiVo said:


> umm, folks with an iPad and a TiVo premiere would likely be excited about a 1.0 app that lets them function together. seems pretty simple to me


For playing jokes...by changing the channel on folks from the other room. It may be initally cool but I think without streaming interest would decrease over time. But I don't think that is TiVo's fault, I think the cable providers would have an issue with that.

Streaming would make the app extremely usable for those who want to move about in the kitchen, finish up laundry, and or tinker in their garage. I hope they can add that feature, but I wouldn't hold my breff.


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## sriggins

bradleys said:


> What I am trying to figure out is why people who no longer own a TiVo hang out on TiVo user forums and bash TiVo.... Not trying to be snarky - but it does strike me as odd.


I still own a TiVo and am hoping TiVo gets some new direction before they go belly up, but with the decisions they are making, it does not look likely.


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## ZeoTiVo

xultar said:


> For playing jokes...by changing the channel on folks from the other room. It may be initally cool but I think without streaming interest would decrease over time. But I don't think that is TiVo's fault, I think the cable providers would have an issue with that.
> 
> Streaming would make the app extremely usable for those who want to move about in the kitchen, finish up laundry, and or tinker in their garage. I hope they can add that feature, but I wouldn't hold my breff.


well of course streaming would be very cool, and the networks could say little about streaming - they are not the holdup...
but it seems you have not looked at how the guide data can be manipulated on the iPad, all while watching a show full screen on the TV


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## Fofer

xultar said:


> It doesn't stream. That is prolly cuz of the content providers.


If Sling managed to get away with it, then TiVo should have figured it out long ago, too. It's certainly a missing piece of their puzzle. Seems very inelegant to have to involve a totally separate piece of hardware to handle this task. TiVo *should* have been the leader in time-shifting _and place-shifting_ TV content, but they just couldn't keep up.


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## Fofer

bradleys said:


> *Remote* - (From any screen) A pop-up screen that provides all of the functionality of the Peanut remote (Save Volume and Power for the TV)


It's more than just that. It also allows for live scrubbing within the show's timeline. That's quite a leap forward in usability when it comes to navigating within a recording.


----------



## xultar

ZeoTiVo said:


> well of course streaming would be very cool, and the networks could say little about streaming - they are not the holdup...
> but it seems you have not looked at how the guide data can be manipulated on the iPad, all while watching a show full screen on the TV


The app looks SHARP, I'm totally impressed. I can see why it took so long to deploy. The remote interface is stunning to say the least. I think it will be an awesome addition for people who already have a Premier and an iPad.

I can't wait for my friend to show me how it works next week. As an iPad owner I'm geeked about all types of apps.

I wonder then if the content providers aren't holding TiVo back why streaming wasn't included. I guess it doesn't matter because they can always add it later with an update.

What functionality do you wish TiVo would add to their app?


----------



## Fofer

xultar said:


> I guess it doesn't matter because they can always add it later with an update.
> 
> What functionality do you wish TiVo would add to their app?


Well, it's not that trivial of a task, the box would have to transcode the recorded video to a smaller, more stream-friendly format. Starting with tremendous HD files, this can be a very processor-intensive task.

Still, if AirVideo and ZumoCast can do it on a lower-end Mac (it actually transcodes on the fly) then TiVo should be able to handle it on their latest set top box. I'm assuming the Premiere box ships with the necessary horsepower for something like that. I could be wrong. Perhaps it could so the transcoding during some downtime when it's not being used and explicitly recording anything that's been requested, just otherwise sitting idle (buffering) in the middle of the night.

That's the functionality I'd want TiVo to add, at least. And I'd want the resulting streamability to work over the internet, not just on the local home network.


----------



## xultar

Fofer said:


> If Sling managed to get away with it, then TiVo should have figured it out long ago, too. It's certainly a missing piece of their puzzle. Seems very inelegant to have to involve a totally separate piece of hardware to handle this task. TiVo *should* have been the leader in time-shifting _and place-shifting_ TV content, but they just couldn't keep up.


I think I read right here on the forums that place shifting for TiVo was different because TiVo allows the capture and save of the content as well and they didn't want TiVo to also be able to placeshift that saved content.

Where as Sling is place shifting the content and not allowing the user to save it.

Now I know someone will bring up TiVo to go but it isn't placeshifting live content. It is allowing you to save content you've already saved to an approved device.

See where I'm going with that. Do a search on the forums there were quite a few discussions about that.


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## xultar

Fofer said:


> Well, it's not that trivial of a task, the box would have to transcode the recorded video to a smaller, more stream-friendly format. Starting with tremendous HD files, this can be easier said than done.
> 
> Still, if AirVideo and ZumoCast can do it on a Mac, TiVo should be able to handle it on their latest set top box. I'm assuming the Premiere box ships with the necessary horsepower for something like that. I could be wrong.
> 
> That's the functionality I'd want TiVo to add, at least. And I'd want it to work over the internet, not just on the local home network.


I totally agree with that. If I could watch my TiVo over the web? I'd prolly run through the streets neekid to the TiVo HQ to pick up a box as soon as it was announced. I know...WHAT ABOUT THE CHILDREN...we'll cover their eyes. Crazy lady on the loose!

I think TiVo should have bought Sling. I wonder if there would have been some flack over that requiring SEC approval or some crap like that.


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## markp99

Sling is a great option for us w/TiVo, and involves no nekkidness...


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## xultar

markp99 said:


> Sling is a great option for us w/TiVo, and involves no nekkidness...


Well there you go sucking the fun out of the whole deal. I have a slingbox I love it.


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## bradleys

Home-slice  would like to to see more MRV integration...

I want to be able to initiate a TiVo to TiVo, Server to TiVo and TiVo to iPad transfer. I like the idea of streaming, but I have never really had that much luck watching on 3G away from my home network. Netflix and ABC players are pretty good - but I suspect there is a lot of horsepower behind them.

So just being able to initiate a move from withing the App would be very cool!


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## Dan203

This looks pretty cool. To bad the cheapest iPad is $500. I just can't justify it at that price. (I already have a netbook I use for couch surfing)

Dan


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## Dan203

bradleys said:


> TiVo to iPad transfer.


That's not even possible. iPad requires H.264 video. All content broadcast via cable/OTA in the US is MPEG-2. Which means it would have to transcode everything, and I don't think the Premiere has the horsepower for that. I also don't think it's possible for 3rd party apps to actually download video to an iPad. They can stream, but I don't think they can actually add a video to the main video library.

Initiating TiVo->TiVo and TiVo->PC transfers should be possible though. They might even be able to add a round about way of doing what you want by upgrading TiVo Desktop to accept commands from the iPad which would force it to download and transcode the show automatically. However you'd still have to sync the iPad with iTunes to get the program.

Dan


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## sac84371

VLC player and CineXplayer both can read files that are not the Apple standard H.264 to include .avi. Also Goodreader is just one of many that let you down video directly to your Ipad for viewing to be open by either Goodreader itself or other applications it denotes.

Just sayin.



Dan203 said:


> That's not even possible. iPad requires H.264 video. All content broadcast via cable/OTA in the US is MPEG-2. Which means it would have to transcode everything, and I don't think the Premiere has the horsepower for that. I also don't think it's possible for 3rd party apps to actually download video to an iPad. They can stream, but I don't think they can actually add a video to the main video library.
> 
> Initiating TiVo->TiVo and TiVo->PC transfers should be possible though. They might even be able to add a round about way of doing what you want by upgrading TiVo Desktop to accept commands from the iPad which would force it to download and transcode the show automatically. However you'd still have to sync the iPad with iTunes to get the program.
> 
> Dan


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## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> That's not even possible. iPad requires H.264 video. All content broadcast via cable/OTA in the US is MPEG-2. Which means it would have to transcode everything, and I don't think the Premiere has the horsepower for that. I also don't think it's possible for 3rd party apps to actually download video to an iPad. They can stream, but I don't think they can actually add a video to the main video library.
> 
> Initiating TiVo->TiVo and TiVo->PC transfers should be possible though. They might even be able to add a round about way of doing what you want by upgrading TiVo Desktop to accept commands from the iPad which would force it to download and transcode the show automatically. However you'd still have to sync the iPad with iTunes to get the program.
> 
> Dan


Frankly all the pieces are in place today, just add the connection from Tivo-to-go to the ipad.

You would use the Bonjour Server to connect to the IPAD and the horsepower of the PC to do the transcode - maybe not clean but definitely do-able using all the building blocks available today.

Tivo --> Tivo Server --> iPad! Other Ipad apps do similar gymnastics...

The biggest risk? It takes several hours to download and transcode a movie. What happens if the ipad insn't available when the server goes looking for it? Sits in a cue?


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## Dan203

I don't think there is a way to transfer a video from a PC to an iPad over wifi. I think you have to physically connect the iPad to the PC and sync it via iTunes.

Dan


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## Dan203

sac84371 said:


> VLC player and CineXplayer both can read files that are not the Apple standard H.264 to include .avi. Also Goodreader is just one of many that let you down video directly to your Ipad for viewing to be open by either Goodreader itself or other applications it denotes.


I didn't realize there were alternate players for the iPad. Using one of those might work. Although TiVo would have to send the files unencrypted since none of those apps would be able to decrypt the .tivo format.

Dan


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## Bogie 66

Dan203 said:


> I don't think there is a way to transfer a video from a PC to an iPad over wifi. I think you have to physically connect the iPad to the PC and sync it via iTunes.
> 
> Dan


Nope, you can do it, it's called airplay. As long as iTunes can play the video, you can stream it to your iPad, iPhone, iPod touch.


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## Fofer

Clarification: Apple's native implementation of AirPlay allows you to push video from an iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch to an AppleTV.

*AirView* is an app that does what you're talking about: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/airview/id412370918?mt=8

You can also "pull" content, using an app like *Air Video* or *ZumoCast*. And they even have Mac/PC "server" software you can install, that will transcode non-compliant video, on the fly, for streaming to an iDevice.

And even still, you're not "transferring" the video, as Dan203 mentions. You're simply streaming it. No copy is left behind on the iDevice.


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## gonzotek

Dan203 said:


> I don't think there is a way to transfer a video from a PC to an iPad over wifi. I think you have to physically connect the iPad to the PC and sync it via iTunes.
> 
> Dan


It wouldn't be stored in the iTunes/iPod database, but apps can set aside their own area of memory for storage. Air Sharing, for example, lets you put in any type of file via a number of transfer mechanisms, including over wifi and while docked through desktop iTunes.


Dan203 said:


> I didn't realize there were alternate players for the iPad. Using one of those might work. Although TiVo would have to send the files unencrypted since none of those apps would be able to decrypt the .tivo format.
> 
> Dan


Based on the version of VLC that was previously available for iOS, the iPhone4 and iPad should have the horsepower to playback at least sd mpeg2, although I can't say for sure (since VLC is no longer available). There's also an open-source library for decrypting .tivo files, that could probably be ported to run on iOS. I doubt that it would pass through the app store approval process however.

So the bits are all there, and a jailbroken iOS device could probably be coerced into doing this all today, but that's a far cry from a legal app TiVo could market that 'just works' for streaming to mobile devices, for the majority of people.


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## Fofer

I am unable to scrub the timeline on shows that I have transferred over via MRV. I can, however, scrub the timeline on shows that were originally recorded on this Premiere. Anyone else?


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## skelm

Sad to see nothing but premier support. I feel left out


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## Andrel

skelm said:


> Sad to see nothing but premier support. I feel left out


So am I (Tivo ONLY support series 2 in Canada).


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## WizarDru

So far I like the app, EXCEPT that while browsing my shows it tends to periodically reset the list while I'm trying to delete shows. The ability to delete folders would be nice, too.


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## jcthorne

Now if Tivo will just port the ap to Android, the other 90&#37; of the mobil market could make use of and further develop the app.

I really think Tivo missed the mark going for ipad. Its a very small market compared to the rest of the mobil device market.


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## NotVeryWitty

jcthorne said:


> Now if Tivo will just port the ap to Android, the other 90% of the mobil market could make use of and further develop the app.


Are you seriously suggesting that Android has 90% of the mobile market?!?


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## innocentfreak

jcthorne said:


> Now if Tivo will just port the ap to Android, the other 90% of the mobil market could make use of and further develop the app.
> 
> I really think Tivo missed the mark going for ipad. Its a very small market compared to the rest of the mobil device market.


They went with the iPad because it had the largest screen. Anything else they would still be working on since it would require redesigning everything for the smaller screens rather than just tweaks.

Personally if we don't see a PC version or the functionality added to TiVo Desktop I will be disappointed. Everyone I know has a computer with them when they watch TV. Some have desktops behind their couch and others just have laptops and netbooks at hand and are usually surfing anyway while watching TV.


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## dswallow

innocentfreak said:


> They went with the iPad because it had the largest screen. Anything else they would still be working on since it would require redesigning everything for the smaller screens rather than just tweaks.


I imagine what really happened is some TiVo employee, on their own time, and at their own initiative, decided to play with the Apple iPad SDK and make an app for their TiVo, and then a handful of other TiVo employees started using it on their iPads and eventually management was unable to ignore its existence and popularity and decided to claim it as their own under an employee IP agreement that basically said anything you do at all, ever, while you work for us is owned by us, and was unable to screw it up sufficiently that they actually released it to the public.

When the employee finally cools off enough to stop being pissed and quits to go work for Google, the app will languish and be mired in a series of updates made by someone who is clueless about the code and accomplishes nothing but making it buggy.


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## Grakthis

NotVeryWitty said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that Android has 90% of the mobile market?!?


Hyperbole much? He's right that iPads are a small market, which I think is the point he was making.


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## ZeoTiVo

dswallow said:


> When the employee finally cools off enough to stop being pissed and quits to go work for Google, the app will languish and be mired in a series of updates made by someone who is clueless about the code and accomplishes nothing but making it buggy.


still upset how TiVo let the Amazon HME APIs languish?


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## Fofer

TiVo let many, many things languish.


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## NotVeryWitty

Grakthis said:


> Hyperbole much? He's right that iPads are a small market, which I think is the point he was making.


According to IDC, the iPad has 87% of the tablet market. If you want to call that small, go right ahead. 

As others have stated, trying to do this app on a phone-sized device would limit it much more.


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## gonzotek

dswallow said:


> I imagine what really happened is some TiVo employee, on their own time, and at their own initiative, decided to play with the Apple iPad SDK and make an app for their TiVo, and then a handful of other TiVo employees started using it on their iPads and eventually management was unable to ignore its existence and popularity and decided to claim it as their own under an employee IP agreement that basically said anything you do at all, ever, while you work for us is owned by us, and was unable to screw it up sufficiently that they actually released it to the public.
> 
> When the employee finally cools off enough to stop being pissed and quits to go work for Google, the app will languish and be mired in a series of updates made by someone who is clueless about the code and accomplishes nothing but making it buggy.


Too many things needed to change in the tivoapp code for this to be true. They had to add hooks for things like the timeline scrubbing.

My theory is that they noticed that the iPad was the new hotness and contracted a company specializing in iOS development, and now TiVo will refuse to continue paying the development company for future updates, and the app will languish and be mired in a series of updates made by someone who is clueless about the code and accomplishes nothing but making it buggy. I'd add a winking smiley, but I don't actually find it all that funny


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## wmcbrine

Yeah, the iPad thing appears to be a major development effort, not an appropriated side project. On the other hand, it was probably inspired in part by the proliferation of third-party network remote apps for the TiVo, which in turn owe their existence primarily to this thread, after the initial design of the network remote interface was aimed solely at Crestron, and felt like it was done in a weekend (at least the TiVo end of it).


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## WizarDru

Grakthis said:


> Hyperbole much? He's right that iPads are a small market, which I think is the point he was making.


As of December, Apple had sold a total of 14.79 MILLION iPads. The Samsung Galaxy Tab has sold approximately 1 Million. IMHO, you're looking at this backwards. It's more likely that there are more iPad owners than TiVo Premiere owners and that those iPad owners might consider this an incentive to get a Premiere, rather than the other way around.

iPads are a small market compared to overall PC sales, perhaps...but the notion that it's an intrinsically small market is debatable.


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## Fofer

Even though I've grown disenfranchised with TiVo over the years (and TV, too) I upgraded to the Premiere on the basis of the iPad app alone (and a great deal off sellout.woot.com.)


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## Fofer

Fofer said:


> I am unable to scrub the timeline on shows that I have transferred over via MRV. I can, however, scrub the timeline on shows that were originally recorded on this Premiere. Anyone else?


I also notice that on the iPad app, shows that have been MRV'ed over don't display specific show info (ie: episode description.) All it shows for each show is the generic description of the series.

Annoying.


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## innocentfreak

The more I think about the app the more I am tempted to grab an iPad with my BB giftcards just for the app. Then of course I think about how this should have just been released as part of a new version of TiVo Desktop just with mouse support rather than touch, and I regain my sanity. 

I wish there was at least an emulator so I could run the app on my PC to test it out.


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## jcthorne

NotVeryWitty said:


> Are you seriously suggesting that Android has 90% of the mobile market?!?


Not exactly but I AM suggesting that iPad is less than 10% of that market and that an ap for android would reach a significantly larger audiance. Also there are android devices on the market with screens just as big and same resolution as the ipad. Its and OS not a specific device they should be coding for.


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## weldon

jcthorne said:


> Not exactly but I AM suggesting that iPad is less than 10% of that market and that an ap for android would reach a significantly larger audiance. Also there are android devices on the market with screens just as big and same resolution as the ipad. Its and OS not a specific device they should be coding for.


Sorry, but iPad is 90% of the tablet market at the moment.

Android only makes sense if you want to talk about smartphones. Unfortunately, TiVo didn't design an interface that would work on a smartphone-sized screen. Even if you go with a smaller screen, 145 million iPhone/iPod touch devices (out of 160 million total iOS devices) is still a big market, even when compared to the total Android market.


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## WizarDru

jcthorne said:


> Not exactly but I AM suggesting that iPad is less than 10% of that market and that an ap for android would reach a significantly larger audiance. Also there are android devices on the market with screens just as big and same resolution as the ipad. Its and OS not a specific device they should be coding for.


What market are you referring to, exactly? Are you seriously suggesting that there are 145 million installed tablets (android or otherwise) in the market, competing with the iPad? That Apple has sold only 10% compared to these producers? What's your source for that claim? Extraordinary claims requiring extraordinary proof, and all that.

The TiVo app for the iPad takes advantage of one feature more than any other...screen size. The Android space is not nearly as useful to code for, as their is far less standardization on the platform. If you write for an Android Tablet, how big is the screen? Is it a 7", 9", 11"? How do you standardize the app for that and maintain the UI? How do you guarantee that the tablet has Froyo versus Donut versus Eclair or Gingerbread? Do you have to certify that app against all of them or just one and hope that doesn't exclude users? What processor does it feature? Tegra, Atom, Cortex, TI? Is the touch-screen resistive or capacitive? Does it run at 800x480, 1024x600, 420x240, 1366x768? Does it have 256MB of RAM? 512? 1GB? 2GB?

Developing for the nascent Android market has it's own host of challenges. Hardly insurmountable....but developing for the iPad removes many of those questions. Further, we don't have access to TiVo's marketing data...which may suggest that their core clients are all iPad users. I don't know that, but my own anecdotal experience is that I know four people in my office with iPads AND TiVos. I don't know anyone with an Android tablet (unless you count my nook, perhaps), let alone that AND a TiVo.


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## Fofer

Yeah, well, I think they should further the app so it works on their own existing base of TiVo HD's and Series 3's first.


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## bradleys

Fofer said:


> Yeah, well, I think they should further the app so it works on their own existing base of TiVo HD's and Series 3's first.


I would not count of that. It would require them to deploy the entire Premier service architecture to the Series 3 model - inlcluding all of the internet hooks in order to do that. The S3 Box just can't support the CPU needs...

Once the devs start tracking the packet traffic, I think you are going to see a lot more of the content being driven directly by the Premier than might be obvious. They might add some level of functionality for our Series 3 boxes but I suspect you would be less than pleased.

Face it, they designed the app around the Premier box.

It is funny... I have said and others have indicated that they find no compelling reason to upgrade a working S3 model to a premier. Now as soon as TiVo delivers a product that extends the Premier architecture in a compelling way - everyone is upset that their old platform won't support it.

From TiVo's point of view either you want to them to follow through on the Premier promise or you don't...


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## lrhorer

bradleys said:


> I would not count of that. It would require them to deploy the entire Premier service architecture to the Series 3 model - inlcluding all of the internet hooks in order to do that. The S3 Box just can't support the CPU needs...


Well, it depends on exactly which aspect of the architecture one is considering. Most networking demands are not high. The biggest drain on CPU time for the TiVo platform is encryption and decryption, and those only apply to transferring program content, not to controlling the TiVo or interacting with an external box. That said, the S3 and in particular the THD are not overloaded with CPU power, and there are without question services one can imagine that are not really appropriate to the system.



bradleys said:


> Face it, they designed the app around the Premier box.


That seems evident, yes, and far from surprising.



bradleys said:


> It is funny... I have said and others have indicated that they find no compelling reason to upgrade a working S3 model to a premier.


Not only that, but there are no fewer than six very strong reasons *NOT* to upgrade. The presence of a bell or whistle or two is not a compelling argument to upgrade.



bradleys said:


> Now as soon as TiVo delivers a product that extends the Premier architecture in a compelling way


The iPad app? Compelling? Someone wake me up when there's a real story to discuss.



bradleys said:


> - everyone is upset that their old platform won't support it.


The last I checked, "everyone" includes me, and I am certainly nothing like upset that any platform I own does not support an iPad app. You've got a really major snooze fest going on, here, if you ask me.



bradleys said:


> From TiVo's point of view either you want to them to follow through on the Premier promise or you don't...


I really could hardly care any less. Call me when the S5 platform comes out - maybe, but even then only if we're talking open source applications for open source platforms.


----------



## lrhorer

WizarDru said:


> The TiVo app for the iPad takes advantage of one feature more than any other...screen size.


Which is still far too small to make them really usable in general.



bradleys said:


> The Android space is not nearly as useful to code for, as their is far less standardization on the platform.


That's a bit of an odd statement, since the iPad is not at its core standards based. It is fully proprietary.



bradleys said:


> If you write for an Android Tablet, how big is the screen? Is it a 7", 9", 11"? How do you standardize the app for that and maintain the UI? How do you guarantee that the tablet has Froyo versus Donut versus Eclair or Gingerbread? Do you have to certify that app against all of them or just one and hope that doesn't exclude users? What processor does it feature? Tegra, Atom, Cortex, TI? Is the touch-screen resistive or capacitive? Does it run at 800x480, 1024x600, 420x240, 1366x768? Does it have 256MB of RAM? 512? 1GB? 2GB?


Get a grip. By your statements above, one should be limited to only 1 device with a completely fixed architecture. I'm sure Apple would love that - after all they have done their best to swing the sector in that very direction from day 1, but it is simply an unacceptable approach. Period.



bradleys said:


> Further, we don't have access to TiVo's marketing data...which may suggest that their core clients are all iPad users.


That's utter nonsense, but I think perhaps it wasn't what you meant to say. Certainly the very large majority of users - even of households - don't have any sort of tablet at all, and aren't terribly likely to buy one.



bradleys said:


> I don't know that, but my own anecdotal experience is that I know four people in my office with iPads AND TiVos. I don't know anyone with an Android tablet (unless you count my nook, perhaps), let alone that AND a TiVo.


There is only one in my office (other than myself) with a TiVo (a DirecTiVo, as it happens), and none with an iPad. Indeed, to my knowledge, only one of my friends or colleagues anywhere has an iPad.


----------



## lrhorer

WizarDru said:


> As of December, Apple had sold a total of 14.79 MILLION iPads.


...or less than 1 person (in America) in twenty. To be sure, it's a good little chunk of change for Apple, but quite small compared to the more than 400 million computers out there.



WizarDru said:


> IMHO, you're looking at this backwards. It's more likely that there are more iPad owners than TiVo Premiere owners and that those iPad owners might consider this an incentive to get a Premiere, rather than the other way around.


Now that is much more of a fair point, but still the number is small compared to the population of 300 million or even the number of households, which is somewhere around 87 million.



WizarDru said:


> iPads are a small market compared to overall PC sales, perhaps...but the notion that it's an intrinsically small market is debatable.


'More like minuscule. That said, it is sadly true the American consumer is often won over more by glitz than substance.


----------



## Fofer

lrhorer said:


> ...or less than 1 person (in America) in twenty. To be sure, it's a good little chunk of change for Apple, but quite small compared to the more than 400 million computers out there.


Right, but the controls of the current iPad app wouldn't make much sense on a desktop (or even laptop) computer. The form factor of the iPad lends itself to do duty as a smart, universal remote control for the living room. Sure, the same could be said for other tablets, but the iPad is the popular one right now.

Maybe TiVo did some demographic research, and decided the Apple customer is the kind of customer with which they want to curry favor?


----------



## innocentfreak

Fofer said:


> Right, but the controls of the current iPad app wouldn't make much sense on a desktop (or even laptop) computer. The form factor of the iPad lends itself to do duty as a smart, universal remote control for the living room. Sure, the same could be said for other tablets, but the iPad is the popular one right now.
> 
> Maybe TiVo did some demographic research, and decided the Apple customer is the kind of customer with which they want to curry favor?


How so? From every video I have seen you could easily do the controls with a mouse or touchpad. You would lose gesture controls of course, but beyond that I haven't seen any video showing otherwise.


----------



## Fofer

Hardware form factor. A tablet can act like a big Crestron remote.

A laptop or netbook or desktop computer... not so much.


----------



## innocentfreak

I understand how some would find holding it more comfortable, but if I am sitting at my desk on my computer or sitting on the couch using my laptop while watching the TV like usual I don't see a difference. 

Everyone I know uses a computer while they watch TV. I don't see them wanting to pick up an iPad to do something they could have just done on the screen they were already using especially with something as accurate as the mouse.


----------



## Fofer

Bad comparison. Once someone has an iPad, _that's_ the device they have when they're sitting on the couch. Nothing extra to pick up, as that's what they're already holding.


----------



## innocentfreak

Fofer said:


> Bad comparison. Once someone has an iPad, _that's_ the device they have when they're sitting on the couch. Nothing extra to pick up, as that's what they're already holding.


I will admit this app has tempted me, but I would only use it for remote deletion and maybe a few other things. Nothing worth justifying the cost of the iPad since it wouldn't replace my computers so I would still use a laptop or one of my desktops at the same time.


----------



## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> Right, but the controls of the current iPad app wouldn't make much sense on a desktop (or even laptop) computer.


Well, the implication is TiVo can reach a much larger potential audience by producing something more usable with a desktop than with a tablet. Of much more importance to me, is fixing the issues the TiVo has right now. In particular, I wish they would address the rather poor conflict resolution available on the TiVo and make the channel lineup settings more convenient. Neither of these efforts would take much in the way of resources, relatively speaking.



Fofer said:


> The form factor of the iPad lends itself to do duty as a smart, universal remote control for the living room. Sure, the same could be said for other tablets, but the iPad is the popular one right now.


A $500 remote control? I'll pass, thanks. Perhaps more importantly, the last thing I want is a remote control that requires me to look away from the TV screen, no matter what the cost. There are other touch-screen remote controls out there, but I don't want one of them, either. I want a remote control I can operate entirely by feel. The S3 peanut sits near the top of the list.


----------



## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> Hardware form factor. A tablet can act like a big Crestron remote.


Yet another big disadvantage for the iPad - size. It's far too big to hold and use with one hand, making it a very poor remote, plus it is large (and frail) enough to make it a bother to set down on the couch.


----------



## Fofer

Well, I already had an iPad that I love for so many other reasons. That it can *also* now be a smart, interactive remote companion on a new TiVo was just a surprise icing on the cake.


----------



## lrhorer

innocentfreak said:


> I understand how some would find holding it more comfortable, but if I am sitting at my desk on my computer or sitting on the couch using my laptop while watching the TV like usual I don't see a difference.


For my money, a laptop is far, far too clumsy to sit with it in one's lap, the name notwithstanding, especially in a recliner.



innocentfreak said:


> Everyone I know uses a computer while they watch TV.


I don't know anyone who uses a computer while they watch TV. Even I don't, and I have more computers and use them far more universally than most.



innocentfreak said:


> I don't see them wanting to pick up an iPad to do something they could have just done on the screen they were already using especially with something as accurate as the mouse.


Well, a tablet is a little better than a keyboard and mouse when sitting in a recliner, but that's not saying much.


----------



## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> Well, I already had an iPad that I love for so many other reasons. That it can *also* now be a smart, interactive remote companion on a new TiVo was just a surprise icing on the cake.


What an appropriate metaphor. I want something nutritious and fortifying in a computing device, not a frivolous desert. As to interfacing the iPad with the TiVo, that's fine, but don't expect me to fall to my knees in awe over it, or to suffer any heartache because I don't have access to the functionality. I wouldn't be very likely take advantage of it if I did have an iPad.


----------



## DeWitt

Fofer said:


> Well, I already had an iPad that I love for so many other reasons. That it can *also* now be a smart, interactive remote companion on a new TiVo was just a surprise icing on the cake.


Exactly! I wouldn't buy an iPad for this alone, but since the Tivo app was free it is a purely unexpected bonus for those of us that already have one.

I bought the iPad mostly for a really light weight internet device when traveling/commuting , but it has quickly become the tool of choice for Internet access around the house.


----------



## aadam101

lrhorer said:


> Which is still far too small to make them really usable in general.


Huh? The iPad is MUCH bigger than the Tivo remote and it has more buttons. not sure why you think it's too small.


----------



## aadam101

lrhorer said:


> Yet another big disadvantage for the iPad - size. It's far too big to hold and use with one hand, making it a very poor remote, plus it is large (and frail) enough to make it a bother to set down on the couch.


It's not meant to use with one hand. The app is much more than a remote. It is an extension of the Tivo. I can sit with my family and browse the Tivo and not interrupt their TV viewing.

It's not frail at all. It is quite sturdy. I'm not climbing a mountain with it. I'm sitting on the couch.


----------



## aadam101

lrhorer said:


> Which is still far too small to make them really usable in general.





lrhorer said:


> Yet another big disadvantage for the iPad - size. It's far too big to hold and use with one hand, making it a very poor remote, plus it is large (and frail) enough to make it a bother to set down on the couch.


So the iPad is too big and it's too small? Wow......


----------



## dswallow

I think the remote I want for a TiVo is one that uses Microsoft Kinect to interpret my hand and arm gestures.


----------



## lrhorer

aadam101 said:


> Huh? The iPad is MUCH bigger than the Tivo remote and it has more buttons. not sure why you think it's too small.


I said "in general". That means for use as a computer. Anything smaller than 24" is too small to be viable as a general computing device.


----------



## lrhorer

aadam101 said:


> So the iPad is too big and it's too small? Wow......


Yep. Too small for use as a computer and too large for use as a remote.


----------



## lrhorer

aadam101 said:


> It's not meant to use with one hand.


Which makes it unacceptable. A one-handed remote is more than bothersome enough.



aadam101 said:


> The app is much more than a remote. It is an extension of the Tivo. I can sit with my family and browse the Tivo and not interrupt their TV viewing.


And I am supposed to think that is useful? Whether alone or with someone else, when I watch TV, I watch TV. When I work on a computer, I work on a computer. Trying to do both (indeed, trying to combine any two disparate activities) results in a mess that is neither particularly enjoyable nor efficient or effective. I learned that lesson decades ago.

Perhaps more to the point, I don't care to do anything with the TiVo except press <play>. I let the TiVo handle the rest.



aadam101 said:


> It's not frail at all. It is quite sturdy. I'm not climbing a mountain with it. I'm sitting on the couch.


And what happens when you (or your wife) sits on the couch... on top of the iPad? A TiVo peanut can stand being sat upon - I've done it a few times - as long as the couch is reasonably well padded. An iPad? Forget it, especially if you happen to weigh as much as I do. I also doubt an iPad would take well to being dropped on a hardwood floor, which happens regularly to my remotes in the living room.


----------



## dswallow

lrhorer said:


> I said "in general". That means for use as a computer. Anything smaller than 24" is too small to be viable as a general computing device.


I seem to remember functioning just fine back in the 15" CRT monitor days. Sure, I much prefer 28" LCD's, but still... your statement is a bit, well, out there. If anything a "general computing device" functions a lot more effectively with real input devices like a keyboard. The display can be pretty flexible, based on what the user is using the "general computing device" for (i.e., business apps vs. graphic design/CAD).


----------



## Fofer

lrhorer said:


> Anything smaller than 24" is too small to be viable as a general computing device.


LOL - you've just lost me there. I know plenty of folks with 15" laptops as their primary computing device who are far more creative and productive than you and I will ever be.


----------



## WizarDru

lrhorer said:


> I said "in general". That means for use as a computer. Anything smaller than 24" is too small to be viable as a general computing device.


Huh. I'm going to have to just agree to disagree with you on that one, I guess. Prior to maybe a year and a half ago, I'd never even seen 24" monitors in the enterprise (though I'd seen plenty of dual and quad setups for rare situations). And the idea that laptops less than 24" aren't viable as computing devices, let alone tablets and netbooks....well, I'd say your opinion is on the outlier.


----------



## WizarDru

lrhorer said:


> Get a grip. By your statements above, one should be limited to only 1 device with a completely fixed architecture. I'm sure Apple would love that - after all they have done their best to swing the sector in that very direction from day 1, but it is simply an unacceptable approach. Period.


I'm suggesting no such thing. I'm suggesting what might have been the appeal for TiVo to develop an application for the iPad before the Android Tablet and the inherent pitfalls therein. I'm not making any sort of judgement on either platform. I have an iPad, but only because my firm bought one for me, for support purposes. I think they're a poor value proposition for me, personally (though I enjoy having one). I purchased an Android Tablet for my wife, but she decided she didn't want one yet, so we returned it.

My greater point was that developing for the Android has additional potential pitfalls for TiVo, at least in relation to the app as developed. The android tablets currently commercially available use different versions of the OS, different screen sizes, different resolutions, memory sizes and different input technologies. All of that means that TiVo would have to account and test for all those factors when developing an app. For the iPad, there are only two versions of the OS available. That's the only difference between all the iPads (storage size not being a factor to this app).

Also, I'm not really sure why you think the iPad is fragile. It's not. I wouldn't use it to drive in a nail, but in a slip-case, it's no more or less fragile than a laptop or netbook, IME.


----------



## DeWitt

The iPod/ iPhone are awfully small for general purpose computing/Internet surfing, it works, but it is not very tasty so to speak... The iPad however is big enough that it completely changes the paradigm.

Sitting on the couch and curious about something, would I pull out my Droid or iPod touch? No way. I get up and use the computer.

Now with the iPad I find myself reaching for it first for general purpose leisure surfing. Would I want to work on it all day? no, that is what the computer on my desk is for.

I don't leave it on the couch to be sat on, but it is small enough to just drop it on an end table when not in use. With the Tivo app I don't view it as a replacement for the remote, more an extension of the user experience.


----------



## Fofer

lrhorer said:


> What an appropriate metaphor. I want something nutritious and fortifying in a computing device, not a frivolous desert.


Fortunately there is lots of variety in the tech world, and lines are blurring every day between "computer" and "appliance." Not everything needs to be so black and white.

My primary computer is "nutritious and fortifying." My tablet (which happens to be an iPad) is for more "frivolous," casual fare. Such as... reading a digital magazine comfortably on the couch, or interfacing with my TiVo Premiere. I enjoy having different devices for different needs, tasks and moods. Especially when their different form factors make such distinctions comfortable.

You seem to be so blinded by anti-Apple sentiment that you're fashioning a contradictory argument by any means necessary, even if it doesn't make much sense.


----------



## Fofer

DeWitt said:


> The iPod/ iPhone are awfully small for general purpose computing/Internet surfing, it works, but it is not very tasty so to speak... The iPad however is big enough that it completely changes the paradigm.
> 
> Sitting on the couch and curious about something, would I pull out my Droid or iPod touch? No way. I get up and use the computer.
> 
> Now with the iPad I find myself reaching for it first for general purpose leisure surfing. Would I want to work on it all day? no, that is what the computer on my desk is for.
> 
> I don't leave it on the couch to be sat on, but it is small enough to just drop it on an end table when not in use. With the Tivo app I don't view it as a replacement for the remote, more an extension of the user experience.


:up: Very, very well said.


----------



## aadam101

lrhorer said:


> Whether alone or with someone else, when I watch TV, I watch TV. When I work on a computer, I work on a computer. Trying to do both (indeed, trying to combine any two disparate activities) results in a mess that is neither particularly enjoyable nor efficient or effective. I learned that lesson decades ago.





lrhorer said:


> Well, the implication is TiVo can reach a much larger potential audience by producing something more usable with a desktop than with a tablet.


So do you want Tivo to build a PC based app or not? I am confused by all of your contradicting statements.

I can already do most of what the Tivo app can do on a PC. There is no need for Tivo to build an app.


----------



## wkearney99

WizarDru said:


> My greater point was that developing for the Android has additional potential pitfalls for TiVo, at least in relation to the app as developed.


Tivo has bigger pitfalls, like everyone else developing for tablets.

One could argue Android has considerably greater potential than the iPad precisely because of greater diversity. Sure, there's great value for a developer and some consumers in having a limited target like the iPad. But then you're stuck if the device doesn't have enough functionality or the vendor decides your needs aren't worthy of their approval. Better to have many different companies developing many different solutions. That'll do more to increase the number of solutions and drive costs down.

Personally I dislike the notion of using a tablet or even a phone as a remote. They're not cost effective nor durable enough to make a practical substitute for the peanut style remote. They have great potential as an add-on interface, but not as an exclusive alternative. I've had several touchscreen remotes over the years and eventually they fall out of favor, some faster than others. Mainly due to battery life, durability or just not being as simple to use as the peanut.

If Tivo would get around to making it possible to use a tablet totally control the programming and NPL of any Tivo in the house I'd definitely be interested in it. I wouldn't see using it all the time, but would certainly like to have a faster and more flexible way of managing my Tivo units.

Add the ability to stream to the tablet and then it might be something I'd use more often. Like being able to pull up a cooking show segment from the NPL while in the kitchen. Or DIY from the workshop. Yes, you can stream or download them now to various gadgets. Having them integrated with the Tivo, however, would eliminate a lot of the other hassles in finding and managing the content.

Bearing in mind, playback to multiple devices in the same room (or within earshot) raises a whole other set of synchronization hassles. It's very difficult to get networked devices in sync well enough to avoid your ears noticing the differences. Trying to do it with live broadcast material is virtually impossible.

Anyway, if/when Tivo develops an Android app I'll give it a try, but not until then.


----------



## Fofer

wkearney99 said:


> Personally I dislike the notion of using a tablet or even a phone as a remote. They're not cost effective nor durable enough to make a practical substitute for the peanut style remote. They have great potential as an add-on interface, but not as an exclusive alternative. I've had several touchscreen remotes over the years and eventually they fall out of favor, some faster than others. Mainly due to battery life, durability or just not being as simple to use as the peanut.


While all that's fine and good, being able to use WiFi to connect makes it far more versatile in a home where the TiVo is shared to multiple TV's. IR and even RF aren't as robust... and the IP based control means we can do more interactive things, like scrubbing the timeline.


----------



## innocentfreak

aadam101 said:


> So do you want Tivo to build a PC based app or not? I am confused by all of your contradicting statements.
> 
> I can already do most of what the Tivo app can do on a PC. There is no need for Tivo to build an app.


Are you sure about that?

You can't remote delete. You can't scrub. You can't reorder the season passes unless you one to do one at a time which takes longer for me than doing it on the actual TiVo assuming the changes actually go through. You can't use the TiVo search. You can't use the episode guide. Etc, Etc.


----------



## lrhorer

dswallow said:


> I seem to remember functioning just fine back in the 15" CRT monitor days.


We did just fine in the paper tape, card reader, and teletype days, as well. Had there been 26" and larger monitors available, we certainly would not have stuck with the teletypes, though.

I need hardly point out my eyes were also much better back in the 12" CRT and even 15" CRT days, as well. I haven't used a monitor smaller than 21" in over two decades, however, and I have no intention whatsoever of doing so.



dswallow said:


> Sure, I much prefer 28" LCD's, but still... your statement is a bit, well, out there. If anything a "general computing device" functions a lot more effectively with real input devices like a keyboard.


Agreed, and once again the tablet fails to deliver. I also avoid using any pointing device with fewer than 10 buttons. If I have to take my fingers away from the keyboard, I at least want to be able to effectively still control a modest number of functions.



dswallow said:


> The display can be pretty flexible, based on what the user is using the "general computing device" for (i.e., business apps vs. graphic design/CAD).


I handle both extensively throughout the day, and the latter frequently for personal use at home. (Actually, I work a lot from home.) A small monitor is not acceptable for either.


----------



## lrhorer

Fofer said:


> LOL - you've just lost me there. I know plenty of folks with 15" laptops as their primary computing device who are far more creative and productive than you and I will ever be.


You have no idea how productive I am. Suffice to say it is huge, however, and the two main reasons for my productivity are that I am capable of pinpoint concentration and that I accept no unnecessary compromises when it comes to my production environment. That includes making certain the display I use is large enough to prevent any unnecessary scrolling yet is filled completely with the work on which I am concentrating, and that the keyboard and pointing device are optimal for whatever I may attempt. If I have a task I need to accomplish, I focus on it and it alone. If I am somewhere not completely appropriate to the task, I wait until I can get to somewhere that is appropriate. I am not a heart surgeon. I never have any task in front of me that cannot wait for 15 minutes until I can get to my house or my office. I don't even engage in lengthy cell conversations while mobile. I certainly never do anything so phenomenally stupid as trying to text or reading text messages while driving.

Creativity, OTOH, is not a quantifiable trait, and the term itself applies to endeavors so disparate as to be completely unrelated. At some creative tasks I admit freely, if sadly, to being utterly dreadful. I've tried writing fiction, but far from being able to inspire soaring emotions like writers such as Tolkein, Longfellow, Asimov, Heinlein, or Rowling, my prose reads like a laundry list. My poetry, however, has been deemed quite good. I can't draw or paint worth a tinker's damn, but my acting has on more than one occasion garnered stellar published reviews. I'm dismal as an interior decorator, but my skills as a design engineer are exceptional. I've never been able to carve or sculpt at all, but I am extremely good at writing code. Certainly I have known people more creative than I in every area one may imagine, but I also know many people who claim to be highly creative who in fact can't create a damn thing.


----------



## lrhorer

WizarDru said:


> Huh. I'm going to have to just agree to disagree with you on that one, I guess. Prior to maybe a year and a half ago, I'd never even seen 24" monitors in the enterprise (though I'd seen plenty of dual and quad setups for rare situations).


You didn't look very well, then. Monitors larger than 24" have been available since the late 1980s. I used a 60" monitor in an engineering seminar in Denver more than a decade ago.



WizarDru said:


> And the idea that laptops less than 24" aren't viable as computing devices, let alone tablets and netbooks....well, I'd say your opinion is on the outlier.


There are cases where portability is an absolute requirement. My technicians, for example, must carry a laptop with them when the go to a customer premise. The compromises inherent in such devices, however, I find completely unacceptable for general computing. I've worked with many people in my career, and with a few striking exceptions, almost everyone with whom I spoke who claimed to "need" a mobile device in fact needed nothing of the sort, and the volume and especially quality of the work they performed was usually dismal at best.


----------



## lrhorer

aadam101 said:


> So do you want Tivo to build a PC based app or not?


I would have to look closely at the app's proposed capabilities and system impacts before I could answer that question.



aadam101 said:


> I am confused by all of your contradicting statements.


They aren't contradictory. I was merely clarifying and extrapolating from what someone else had suggested.



aadam101 said:


> I can already do most of what the Tivo app can do on a PC. There is no need for Tivo to build an app.


If it can be done on a PC, then why is it necessary for an iPad?

Hmm. That query could be interpreted a couple of ways. What I mean is, how is the app an advantage for an iPad if it would not be an advantage for a PC?


----------



## lrhorer

innocentfreak said:


> You can't remote delete.


I can. As a matter of fact, I have several utilities capable of doing this, and I use two of them regularly.



innocentfreak said:


> You can't scrub.


Scrub what?



innocentfreak said:


> You can't reorder the season passes unless you one to do one at a time which takes longer for me than doing it on the actual TiVo


I could if I chose to, but it's not a feature of which I ever take advantage. Heck, the last time I re-sorted my season passes was... I don't know... maybe 8 months ago. It's just not something I do often enough to make it a significant issue.



innocentfreak said:


> assuming the changes actually go through. You can't use the TiVo search. You can't use the episode guide. Etc, Etc.


Since I never have any desire whatsoever to use either, why would I want it on a device I don't have and don't want? Or even on one I do have?


----------



## dswallow

lrhorer said:


> You have no idea how productive I am. Suffice to say it is huge, however, and the two main reasons for my productivity are that I am capable of pinpoint concentration and that I accept no unnecessary compromises when it comes to my production environment. That includes making certain the display I use is large enough to prevent any unnecessary scrolling yet is filled completely with the work on which I am concentrating, and that the keyboard and pointing device are optimal for whatever I may attempt. If I have a task I need to accomplish, I focus on it and it alone. If I am somewhere not completely appropriate to the task, I wait until I can get to somewhere that is appropriate. I am not a heart surgeon. I never have any task in front of me that cannot wait for 15 minutes until I can get to my house or my office. I don't even engage in lengthy cell conversations while mobile. I certainly never do anything so phenomenally stupid as trying to text or reading text messages while driving.
> 
> Creativity, OTOH, is not a quantifiable trait, and the term itself applies to endeavors so disparate as to be completely unrelated. At some creative tasks I admit freely, if sadly, to being utterly dreadful. I've tried writing fiction, but far from being able to inspire soaring emotions like writers such as Tolkein, Longfellow, Asimov, Heinlein, or Rowling, my prose reads like a laundry list. My poetry, however, has been deemed quite good. I can't draw or paint worth a tinker's damn, but my acting has on more than one occasion garnered stellar published reviews. I'm dismal as an interior decorator, but my skills as a design engineer are exceptional. I've never been able to carve or sculpt at all, but I am extremely good at writing code. Certainly I have known people more creative than I in every area one may imagine, but I also know many people who claim to be highly creative who in fact can't create a damn thing.


After seeing a post like that I'd usually be looking for the spam postings that'd follow.


----------



## Fofer

I know, seriously? I got a good chuckle out of that one.



lrhorer said:


> I've tried writing fiction, but far from being able to inspire soaring emotions like writers such as Tolkein, Longfellow, Asimov, Heinlein, or Rowling, my prose reads like a laundry list. My poetry, however, has been deemed quite good. I can't draw or paint worth a tinker's damn, but my acting has on more than one occasion garnered stellar published reviews.


LOL


----------



## Fofer

lrhorer said:


> Scrub what?


The timeline.


----------



## innocentfreak

lrhorer said:


> I can. As a matter of fact, I have several utilities capable of doing this, and I use two of them regularly.


Ok so how do you do it for free on the Premiere?


----------



## fdisker2000

The only thing I don't like about the App is you can not search programs that are on at the time of the search, you can only search up coming as far as I can tell.


----------



## aadam101

lrhorer said:


> I can. As a matter of fact, I have several utilities capable of doing this, and I use two of them regularly.


So I need to drag out my giant laptop and install some complicated software instead of just installing a simple app that Tivo has provided for me?


----------



## WizarDru

lrhorer said:


> You didn't look very well, then. Monitors larger than 24" have been available since the late 1980s. I used a 60" monitor in an engineering seminar in Denver more than a decade ago.


I didn't say I hadn't seen them, I said I hadn't seen them in the _Enterprise_. Many of the labs I've been in over the past 20 years had large, specialized equipment. But just like SGI Onyx boxes weren't found on a secretary's desk, neither was a 24" monitor.

Your preferences for monitor size and laptops I would again suggest are outside the norm, as sales over the last decades would indicate.


----------



## Shanezam203

en sabur nur said:


> I am definately getting a Premiere and an iPad now! This app has won me over. It's exactly what I was wishing for, and judging by the "living room dvr" tab in the upper left-hand corner, it may be able to control more that one dvr! I hope so, because then I'd buy two Tivo Premieres! This is awesome news!


I've been looking at iPad's and want to get one here soon, this Tivo app would be real nice! But I don't have a premiere, I wish it was available on my HD.


----------



## lrhorer

innocentfreak said:


> Ok so how do you do it for free on the Premiere?


I do not own a Premier and I do not offer any recommendation that anyone else purchase one at this time.


----------



## lrhorer

aadam101 said:


> So I need to drag out my giant laptop and install some complicated software instead of just installing a simple app that Tivo has provided for me?


You truly haven't a clue. One is web based, so no installation at all is required on the client. Any web browser will do. The other requires no installation, as it is a stand-alone executable file. It may even run on the iPad. I don't know what OS emulations, if any, are available on the iPad. Certainly it can be run under Linux or OS X.


----------



## innocentfreak

lrhorer said:


> I do not own a Premier and I do not offer any recommendation that anyone else purchase one at this time.


So are you going to actually answer the question?


----------



## Fofer

Yeah, what are the names of the two utilities, and what model TiVo do you have?


----------



## czazzara

Fofer said:


> Yeah, what are the names of the two utilities, and what model TiVo do you have?


I have to second this request... Please share.

And, as an aside, this is one of the most entertaining threads I have read in a long time. Some of it reminds me a lot of the dialog on the show Big Bang Theory!

This message is brought to you from my iPad while seated in the can, don't try this with a 24" notebook of any make or model..... 

Thanks for your time.

CZ


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## moyekj

He is referring to utilities for PROM hacked units people. Once you have them hacked then you have such capabilities, but it's certainly not mainstream. Now because of this iPad utility it's a matter of time before reverse engineering reveals how to do it in a standard IP based manner on non-hacked units, at least for Premiere models. Personally I have no use for the iPad utility itself, but I'm glad to see it opened up more doors for 3rd party applications.


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## innocentfreak

Right, which is also not something you can do on the Premiere yet last I checked.


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## Fofer

Ah, I see what's happening now. This is a standard techie response; it's to be expected. Since lrhorer has a PROM hacked unit he enjoys, and the Premiere can't yet be PROM hacked, he's compelled to put it down and downplay any of it's unique features as something he doesn't care for. Same with the iPad, since he doesn't have one.

If an iPad were to fall in his lap, and/or a PROM hack were to become available for the Premier, suddenly they'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and anyone who doesn't love theirs as much as he loves his, is the new dummy...


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## aadam101

lrhorer said:


> You truly haven't a clue. One is web based, so no installation at all is required on the client. Any web browser will do. The other requires no installation, as it is a stand-alone executable file. It may even run on the iPad. I don't know what OS emulations, if any, are available on the iPad. Certainly it can be run under Linux or OS X.


So I need to hack my Tivo in order to do it your way? Seems much easier to just go with Tivo's iPad app. They have already done the work for me.

It seems you are the one without a clue. You don't own a Premiere or an iPad yet you seem very confident about giving advice on these devices.


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## aadam101

Fofer said:


> If an iPad were to fall in his lap, and/or a PROM hack were to become available for the Premier, suddenly they'd be the greatest thing since sliced bread, and anyone who doesn't love theirs as much as he loves his, is the new dummy...


Maybe we should take up a collection and buy him one....


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## Fofer

aadam101 said:


> So I need to hack my Tivo in order to do it your way? Seems much easier to just go with Tivo's iPad app. They have already done the work for me.


Something tells me the UI on the hack apps aren't anywhere near as functional and good looking, either.


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## WizarDru

czazzara said:


> And, as an aside, this is one of the most entertaining threads I have read in a long time. Some of it reminds me a lot of the dialog on the show Big Bang Theory!
> 
> This message is brought to you from my iPad while seated in the can, don't try this with a 24" notebook of any make or model..... Z


BAZINGA!


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## Fofer

Fofer said:


> Ah, I see what's happening now. This is a standard techie response; it's to be expected. Since lrhorer has a PROM hacked unit he enjoys...


Making more sense now:



lrhorer said:


> You have something seriously wrong. Old hardware doesn't come close to explaining it. My S1 TiVo...


He's holding onto his hacked _Series 1 TiVo..._ you can pry it from his cold, dead hands... and anything new and cool that makes it feel even longer in the tooth (than it already is) he's gonna put down...


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## ZeoTiVo

innocentfreak said:


> Right, which is also not something you can do on the Premiere yet last I checked.


yep. Lhorer is blowing some hot air around on this one on a thread about the iPad app and thus in the context of the Premiere boxes at the moment. No wonder his fiction falls flat. 

personally I am waiting for the iPad 2 to come out so I can pick up an original iPad for 100$


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## innocentfreak

ZeoTiVo said:


> personally I am waiting for the iPad 2 to come out so I can pick up an original iPad for 100$


While I hope you are correct, I don't see it dropping that low lol.


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## ZeoTiVo

innocentfreak said:


> While I hope you are correct, I don't see it dropping that low lol.


Might be used. I personally see functionality in the iPad but not of a nature that I would pay much for it since it is nice to have functionality.


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## innocentfreak

Oh I definitely agree. I have an IOU xmas present with the choice of a laptop or iPad. I keep leaning towards a laptop since I can't justify the cost of the iPad since other than with TiVo I wouldn't have as much of a use for it.


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## Fofer

The latest update of the app tells us something VERY INTERESTING:



> This app currently requires a TiVo Premier Series 4 DVR. Support for RCN and sudden link Premier Boxes, along with limited support for TiVo Series 3/TiVo HD DVR's, is coming soon.


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## spudnic

Fofer said:


> The latest update of the app tells us something VERY INTERESTING:


I came here to find out what the scoop on this is. The update said it was to make it easy to control multiple Tivos. The app came up and showed my TiVo name along with a list of my pyTivo shares which were grayed out.

When I tried to select a share I got the message in the previous post.

Before I get riled up, is the Tivo Premier the Tivo Premier 4? If not, I am going to be very put out as I "upgraded" to a Premier basically for the iPad app.


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## Fofer

spudnic said:


> Before I get riled up, is the Tivo Premier the Tivo Premier 4?


Yes. Do you have the latest Software version installed on your Premiere? Mine says 14.7-01-3-746 (this is under Account & System Information.) I'm pretty sure you'll also need to enable network control (Settings -> Remote, CableCARD & Device Settings -> Network Remote Control.)

Make sure your TiVo is on the network. Check Settings -> Network & Phone -> View Network Status.


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## spudnic

The app itself is working fine for me, I love it. I have just been looking forward to them allowing me to browse my pyTivo shares with it and got all excited when they showed up. 

Then I noticed they were grayed out and read that message about the Premier 4 and felt a bit deflated.

Should I be able to see these shares now? Should I force a call?


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## bradleys

If you are talking about the video library you might have on a server or local PC, I do not believe this is suggesting any support for them.

My pytivo is down at the moment (using TiVo desktop), so I am very interested in the fact that you are seeing them as a grey selection. You should only be seeing actual TiVo's... Is PyTivo representing itself as a TiVo? A photo would be VERY helpful for the devs - I am sure!

I might be wrong, but I would not get too excited about that fact. Although, It is an upgrade I would like as well!


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## CuriousMark

PyTivo like TiVo Desktop advertises itself using Bonjour or TiVo Beacon, so my guess is that the iPad is picking that up and then graying them since they are not a TiVo box it specifically knows how to deal with.


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## bradleys

But I did not see my TiVo Desktop on the list, just my TiVo's. If Spudnic is actually seeing a PyTiVo library it is at the very least, interesting and potentially might cause problems in the future.


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## spudnic

bradleys said:


> But I did not see my TiVo Desktop on the list, just my TiVo's. If Spudnic is actually seeing a PyTiVo library it is at the very least, interesting and potentially might cause problems in the future.


Here is the list and the dialog box that pops up when you select a pyTivo share.


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## orangeboy

It could very well be _how_ pytivo announces itself on the LAN. I plagiarized a bit of pyTivo's use of ZeroConf & Beacon to detect TiVo DVRs on the LAN for my TiVoToDo project, and I seem to recall the announcement of pyTivo shares using a string similar to "TiVoMediaServer". Since TiVoToDo doesn't announce anything, I didn't dig too deep into that portion of the code.


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## bradleys

Isn't that interesting!

I still wouldn't assume that we will ever get direct access to those shares - but I never expected to see that.

What I would expect and would like to to see is access to the libraries more as a folder under My Shows. It would be nice to initiate a move from any TiVo or library just like we can do from the UI.

I suspect we will see that functionality about the same time the HDUI is completed for that functionality...


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## wmcbrine

Eh, you know pyTivo has a web interface, right? No need to access it through the app.

I'm assuming the shares appear greyed out because pyTivo sends out _tivo_video share announcements, but not the new _tivo_mindrpc service that the iPad app wants to see. I dunno why TiVo Desktop doesn't show up; perhaps it's specifically excluded?

pyTivo doesn't pretend to be a TiVo, but the _tivo_video announcements for both are similar. It may even be that pyTivo looks a little bit more like a TiVo than TiVo Desktop does (e.g. in their respective beacon behaviors). But a TiVo can certainly tell the difference, as you can see by the icons used.


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## innocentfreak

I haven't messed around with the web interface of Python really and didn't know if you could use it to also delete files from the shares?


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## WizarDru

Fofer said:


> The latest update of the app tells us something VERY INTERESTING:


Engadget has a brief article about it: Tivo App to add limited support for Tivo HD/Series 3 DVRs.


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## spudnic

wmcbrine said:


> Eh, you know pyTivo has a web interface, right? No need to access it through the app.


But the app is just so perty!

Actually I use it to select shows, etc., but use the remote for ff, pause, etc. It's just far more convenient. That's not a dig at the app UI at all, I just really like tactile operations for stuff like that.


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## wps

I have 3 ipads and 4 TIVO HDs. Tivo is missing a big opportunity not supporting Tivo HDs with this app. Also, I will not buy a Tivo premiere - they made a huge mistake not having GB Ethernet - i would upgrade all 4 Tivos to premieres if they had GB Ethernet but not for this app.

Hope Tivo picks up their game before i hit my upgrade cycle.


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## bradleys

wps said:


> I have 3 ipads and 4 TIVO HDs. Tivo is missing a big opportunity not supporting Tivo HDs with this app. Also, I will not buy a Tivo premiere - they made a huge mistake not having GB Ethernet - i would upgrade all 4 Tivos to premieres if they had GB Ethernet but not for this app.
> 
> Hope Tivo picks up their game before i hit my upgrade cycle.


Do you just jump on every iPad / TiVo thread to complain about lack of S3 support or do you actually read them to see if anything might have changed?

Ok, that might have been a little snarky of me... 

With this latest update TiVo is announcing that limited S3 support is coming soon. That is what we are talking about.

The iPad app was designed around the new software service based collections of the Premier so it will be interesting to see what the functionality limitations there will be.

Funny, with all the complaining in the past, I am surprised that nobody has even hinted at even a small amount of appreciation for TiVo listening to their customers and making the attempt to provide this functionality.

Hmm...



> they made a huge mistake not having GB Ethernet


Really? The TiVo cannot process the file / transcode fast enough to utilize a gigabit connection. Heck, it doesn't even stress out the 100mbps connection it has. Why spend the money on a GB connection that it cannot possibly use?


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## Fofer

bradleys said:


> Funny, with all the complaining in the past, I am surprised that nobody has even hinted at even a small amount of appreciation for TiVo listening to their customers and making the attempt to provide this functionality.
> 
> Hmm...


You must've missed my posts, that expressed such appreciation.

Hmm...


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## bradleys

Sorry I missed it.

I tend to be a glass half full kind of guy and the Internet has become such a downer lately. Doesn't matter what forum I visit everyone is angry.


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## spudnic

bradleys said:


> Sorry I missed it.
> 
> I tend to be a glass half full kind of guy and the Internet has become such a downer lately. Doesn't matter what forum I visit everyone is angry.


Amen, brother. I've been looking at all these new sexy media boxes and each time I read about the awesome new feature it has all I can think is, "Well, yeah. I could do that with my TiVo for years."

The biggest gripe I have with Tivo is the screen wipe animations switching through menus. It is just annoying. The data is already there, yet I've got a bright background that makes it hard for me to read until the darker background slides in. It's gives me the perception that it is slower than it actually is.

I wish there was a way for them to allow us to turn that off.

If that's my biggest gripe with them then they're doing something right.


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## Fofer

sandy1110 said:


> It shows them streaming the program to the IPad but I'm pretty sure that won't come until December sometime but it does work.


Huh? _What_ "shows them streaming?" This app doesn't stream at all and no information about this app has made any such promises.


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## orangeboy

Fofer said:


> Huh? _What_ "shows them streaming?" This app doesn't stream at all and no information about this app has made any such promises.


You do know you're replying to a spammer, yes?


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## MediaLivingRoom

The iPad TiVo app locks up the Premier, TiVo as a tech company, does not check their software. FIX IT!!!!


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## orangeboy

Someone's off their meds again


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## innocentfreak

Not sure that TiVo really needed to ask, or if they did they may be worse off than we think since they don't know people want this.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/09/hulu-plus-on-tivo-apparently-being-tested-live-streaming-to-ipa/


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## orangeboy

innocentfreak said:


> Not sure that TiVo really needed to ask, or if they did they may be worse off than we think since they don't know people want this.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/09/hulu-plus-on-tivo-apparently-being-tested-live-streaming-to-ipa/


I would think it's more to gauge _how much_ people would want the feature. A vocal minority may clamor for a feature that the majority wouldn't use. I'm not necessarily say that's the case here, but it could just be due diligence on TiVo's part to find out the need/want...


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## innocentfreak

Yeah I agree. I think though that the fact it has been one of the most requested features combined with the fact nearly every other DVR iPad app supports it should be justificatation enoough. 

Of course this would point to just streaming in general also.


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## bradleys

That Engadget artical is interesting enough to quote...

I do think that streaming to the ipad would be very interesting but I am skeptical about remote streaming. I could see copy directly to the ipad for remote viewing...

Do you also think this could be the beginning to streaming to an apliance? AppleTV? Yeah, I know - that is way out in left field.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/09/hulu-plus-on-tivo-apparently-being-tested-live-streaming-to-ipa/#



> So, an update. Er, a refresher if you will. Back in September of last year, TiVo announced that ingrained Hulu Plus access would be coming to its DVRs "in the coming months," but we've heard precisely nothing on the matter ever since. Enter the present. We've got a tipster who owns a TiVo Premiere and was just invited to join a Field Trial to "test Hulu Plus on TiVo," and he's also receiving codes to receive a free month of service. It's hard to say what kind of gap we're looking at between the testing period and the go-live period, but at least we've got a little assurance that no one simply forgot about their promise. In related news, other tipsters are starting to receive some fairly interesting surveys from TiVo itself, with a few questions in particular asking consumers how they'd feel about the option to "stream live TV, DVR recordings and TV shows from a cable company's On Demand library to one's iPad." This seemingly includes in-home and remote streaming, and we have to say -- streaming to the tablet just might be the magic feature that finally gets TiVo out of the hurt locker. Probably not, but are you really going to judge us for being blindly optimistic?


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## orangeboy

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah I agree. I think though that the fact it has been one of the most requested features combined with the fact nearly every other DVR iPad app supports it should be justificatation enoough.
> 
> Of course this would point to just streaming in general also.





bradleys said:


> That Engadget artical is interesting enough to quote...
> 
> I do think that streaming to the ipad would be very interesting but I am skeptical about remote streaming. I could see copy directly to the ipad for remote viewing...
> 
> Do you also think this could be the beginning to streaming to an apliance? AppleTV? Yeah, I know - that is way out in left field.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/09/hulu-plus-on-tivo-apparently-being-tested-live-streaming-to-ipa/#


It could be a way for TiVo to get their feet wet in the streaming business. With iPad development fresh in the engineer's minds, streaming to the device may be considered "low hanging fruit" to get a proof of concept streaming solution in place. Once perfected, other devices may come into the fold.


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## bradleys

orangeboy said:


> It could be a way for TiVo to get their feet wet in the streaming business. With iPad development fresh in the engineer's minds, streaming to the device may be considered "low hanging fruit" to get a proof of concept streaming solution in place. Once perfected, other devices may come into the fold.


I think you are correct... My head just started to follow the path of least resistance. If TiVo did create a streaming app for the iPad, it would only take three clicks of a mouse to convert it into an Apple TV app. A google TV app wouldn't take much more effort then that and heck, while your at it make an xbox app!

You could then leverage the marketing power of these power house corporations and further diferentiate yourself from the cableco's...

By offering this type of service, they may loose a few 2nd or 3rd unit sales within a home - but they very well may be able to increase the number of homes with a TiVo - I just don't know.

Interesting...

******************************

This platform strategy would also set them up for the S5 platform - a centralized 6 tuner 3 TB unit meant to serve a whole home media environment!


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