# Person of Interest Jan 6 2015 If-Then-Else



## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

are you freaking kidding me !


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

She's not dead. Since they didn't show her actually die, and the last shot at the end was off-camera, I'll activate the std trope and say she's not dead. She better not be dead.

This was one of the best hours of broadcast TV in a long while. They managed to take an overused cliche (same scene, different POVs), and turn it into a fresh version, using the Machine's multiple scenario analysis. And outright acknowledgement of the interplay between Shaw and Root. Also the Machine using generic dialog during the scenarios. "_Overly affectionate greeting_."

Really great hour of TV.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Sarah Shahi is pregnant with twins. Here's a link to an interview with her about it and what it means for the show.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/07/person-of-interest-shaw-dead-sarah-shahi-pregnant/


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

I was aware of that but I think that I would have posted that in spoiler tags.

I'm still putting my thoughts down and will post them later.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Thoughts on Sarah Shahi...



Spoiler



She's pregnant with twins, and is talking in that interview about being off a couple years to have them. Hard to imagine how the producers can keep her character around, without her actually being around, for that two years. Sounds like goodbye to me.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

I agree with you all. What a great episode. Looking forward to the next episode.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

If you watch the next-episode promo scenes at the end, you get an answer as to whether Shaw is alive or dead.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

Thom said:


> If you watch the next-episode promo scenes at the end, you get an answer as to whether Shaw is alive or dead.


Thank you for not saying what the preview said. I don't like to see the next episode promos.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

This is an interesting side to Person of Interest and an intriguing second part of the current trilogy.

Usually the writers tend to avoid using gimmicks and instead tell their (good) stories in a straightforward fashion.

So I didn&#8217;t realize that we were watching the &#8220;What If&#8221; scenario until Harold took a bullet in the server room.

Then I realized that another layer was being peeled back, this time on the Machine.

While the Machine was running through the hundreds of thousands of scenarios to help our team complete their mission to stabilize the stock market and escape the trap set for them, we also saw flashbacks back to when Harold is teaching the Machine Chess.

And while Harold does teach it about strategy and sacrifice, he also reiterates his philosophy/morality that all human lives are worth something.

So we see from the pressed for time Machine&#8217;s point of view, how it tries to come up with the best scenario in which the team is successful and isn&#8217;t outrightly killed.

BTW, who knew the Machine had a sense of humor? Fusco kissing Root because it&#8217;s a simulation.

Also, I like when it &#8220;simplified&#8221; the simulation and our characters were saying things like &#8220;Cooly delivered sadistic warning&#8221;.
(It makes you wonder if some writers meetings have gone like that.)

In the end, the story was about human sacrifice though.

The Machine was trying to save all of the team but in the end it was Shaw (who had spent most of the episode tied up dealing with a potential suicide bomber while trying to get the code the other team members needed) who, in a very human decision, decided to sacrifice herself to allow the other to escape.

It goes to show how far the character of Sameen/Samantha Shaw has come.
When we first met her, she didn&#8217;t give a rat&#8217;s behind about the team and wasn&#8217;t sure that she was actually capable of caring.

Here we see her willing to sacrifice herself to save her friends without any hesitation.

So, is Shaw dead?
Probably not since we didn&#8217;t see a body.


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## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Also, I like when it simplified the simulation and our characters were saying things like Cooly delivered sadistic warning.
> (It makes you wonder if some writers meetings have gone like that.)


That scene cracked me up.

I also liked how each character showed its stengths. Fusco was the only one who had time to help Shaw *and* gave her good advice.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Actually this was the first time in a while I was kind of bored by the episode. I thought the flashbacks etc. went on too long--I guess there wasn't enough plot to fill the hour. I did like a few things (generic dialog was hilarious) but mainly I was fiddling with my phone waiting for the next "new" scene.

Don't know about Shaw: I'll definitely be bummed if Sarah Shahi leaves the show for whatever reason. I've enjoyed everything she's done, especially Life, The L Word, and of course PoI.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

Has Shaw been used in the lesson that Harry taught the Machine about the Queen - not just as a sacrifice, but as a trick.

Martine has improved her rampage mode acting - previously I thought it was a tad too cyborg/Terminator.

The soundtrack was even better than usual.

John mentioned the Machine in front of Fuscoe and Martine now knows that he is working with John and co. - so far it is his ignorance of the Machine that has protected Fuscoe from Samiritan.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Gotta say, that kiss was pretty meh. It looked a lot more like they were cheek-to-cheek than mouth-to-mouth. 

I'm not saying it had to be all slobbery like a Skinemax movie, but at least try to make an effort to make it look convincing.


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

JYoung said:


> ...
> 
> While the Machine was running through the hundreds of thousands of scenarios to help our team complete their mission to stabilize the stock market and escape the trap set for them...
> 
> ...


did I see something wrong ?

during the simulations didn't it show the machine had 2 objectives ?
1) primary objective : stop the financial crisis 
2) secondary objective : protect the assets

but then during the real scenario, after we see the final chess lesson, the objectives got reversed 
1) primary objective : protect the assets 
2) secondary objective : stop the financial crisis

that's what it looked like to me and I thought that was really interesting 
or was I just seeing things ?


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

jamesl said:


> did I see something wrong ?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


I thought I saw the same thing.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I really liked the episode. A Lot!

Being the techie geek that I am, it's good that Root's life wasn't in peril. If it was, and she died, the machine would have to SuDo Admin/Finch to be the new root!

Ok, just couldn't help myself on that one. Yeah, kinda bad, I know.....


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Azlen said:


> Sarah Shahi is pregnant with twins. Here's a link to an interview with her about it and what it means for the show.
> 
> http://insidetv.ew.com/2015/01/07/person-of-interest-shaw-dead-sarah-shahi-pregnant/


Let's assume she's not dead, and she is off the show for a while to raise her twins....they could easily have her be "broken" or something like struggling to cope with she's not as infallible as she thought she was, all while recuperating from some warm island place. And as long as she has internet wherever that were to occur, she could help research numbers.

The question is if that really adds to the show. Prob not. But who knows.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

jlb said:


> Being the techie geek that I am, it's good that Root's life wasn't in peril. If it was, and she died, the machine would have to SuDo Admin/Finch to be the new root!


Uh oh. If I ever see an episode titled "SuDo Admin/Finch," I'll know what it means now. (and I would be tremendously disappointed.)


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

There's something about Root that I don't like and have never liked. I was mentally shouting "Why couldn't it be Root?" when Shaw sacrificed herself.

How did Fusco know he was in a simulation when he kissed Root?" Was that just an inside joke?

How did Shaw know what ducts to crawl through to rescue the team?


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> There's something about Root that I don't like and have never liked. I was mentally shouting "Why couldn't it be Root?" when Shaw sacrificed herself.


I love Amy Acker on this show!
I loved Sarah Shahi on this show!

I did not want it to be either of them.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

It was an interesting twist to the "it's a dream sequence" trope.

I wonder if the next episode title has any meaning?



Spoiler



"Control-Alt-Delete"


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Maui said:


> I love Amy Acker on this show!
> I loved Sarah Shahi on this show!
> 
> I did not want it to be either of them.


Shoot the dog?


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> How did Fusco know he was in a simulation when he kissed Root?" Was that just an inside joke?


In a frightening evolutionary leap the Machine has developed a sense of humor and tells itself jokes.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> Shoot the dog?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

pgogborn said:


> In a frightening evolutionary leap the Machine has developed a sense of humor and tells itself jokes.


I found that behavior by The Machine quite amazing along with the dialog in the "cooly delivered sadistic warning" simulation.

These writers never cease to amaze & entertain.

Could the series denouement be The Machine creating a "Springtime for Hitler" comedy world for mankind?

Or a scenario where The Machine and Samaritan go from conflict to a Root & Shaw kissyface with them "merging" in some perverse cybersex fashion, done appropriately for a TV audience (not HBO style).


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

logic88 said:


> It was an interesting twist to the "it's a dream sequence" trope.
> 
> I wonder if the next episode title has any meaning?
> 
> ...


Interesting......Here's a wacky theory.....what if the whole season is actually the machine simulating stuff? Last episode would have been a simulation within a simulation.

Would that be a cheat/sharky moment....not totally sure.

anyways, this has been a lot of fun this season either way....


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

I would be happy if the Machine figured out a way to destroy Samaritan. I liked the show better pre-Samaritan.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

One thing I really like about this show is all the names Fusco calls Root.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

eddyj said:


> I would be happy if the Machine figured out a way to destroy Samaritan. I liked the show better pre-Samaritan.


I'm with you. This was a fun "big bad" arc but it's gone on too long for my tastes. I much preferred it the old way, especially with interesting villains like Elias. Samaritan is too... machine-like . You can't really generate too much emotion about an evil machine (well, I can't anyway). There's no real opportunity for character growth in a machine, and this one isn't even being controlled by bad humans (anymore). I've been hoping they'd wrap it up for quite a while now.

I wonder if there's some sort of psychological profile possible of people who prefer the good guys to be the ones with the overwhelming technology behind them vs. people who prefer the good guys to be scrappy underdogs with everything against them


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> I found that behavior by The Machine quite amazing along with the dialog in the "cooly delivered sadistic warning" simulation.
> 
> These writers never cease to amaze & entertain.


One of the main reasons why I like the show is all the shades of gray and all the thought the writers put in it.

The Machine made its primary objective saving the "Assets", preventing a financial crisis was only the secondary objective. But according to Root the financial crisis could lead to revolts, starvation, war and Harry seemed to be in agreement.

An interesting choice - is the Machine playing a logical long game or is the if then else choice being decided by emotion?


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

cheesesteak said:


> One thing I really like about this show is all the names Fusco calls Root.


HA ! 
I was dying 
he had some good ones that episode

and I like the Samaritan arc, mostly for what John Nolan (Greer) did to bring Samaritan into existence. 
I don't really see this as a Samaritan arc, but a Greer arc (an arc that was going on LONG before we even heard about Samaritan). 
I'm really interested to see where they go with it.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

pgogborn said:


> One of the main reasons why I like the show is all the shades of gray and all the thought the writers put in it.
> 
> The Machine made its primary objective saving the "Assets", preventing a financial crisis was only the secondary objective. But according to Root the financial crisis could lead to revolts, starvation, war and Harry seemed to be in agreement.
> 
> An interesting choice - is the Machine playing a logical long game or is the if then else choice being decided by emotion?


Or placing self preservation (needs the assets to survive) at the top of the list.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I'd almost forgiven them for killing Carter. If they kill Shaw I'll be very sad for a long time.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

jamesl said:


> I don't really see this as a Samaritan arc, but a Greer arc (an arc that was going on LONG before we even heard about Samaritan).
> I'm really interested to see where they go with it.


When it comes to shades of grey an interesting point to remember is Greer is a life long anti-fascist (whose moment of disillusionment took him into a different direction than the Soviet sympathising Cambridge Five).


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

eddyj said:


> I would be happy if the Machine figured out a way to destroy Samaritan. I liked the show better pre-Samaritan.


There are not enough :up: icons in the world to accurately express my agreement with this.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Love the Samaritan vs The Machine story arc.
It's a logical extension of the existence of The Machine and goes to the heart of what POI has been about since inception. If one person can create an AI, why can't some other equally bright person or persons? How will, how should AIs be used? Can they evolve their behavior & thinking? Can they have "morality" or would they be amoral? How would they relate to organic sometimes thinking machines? There are dozens of "procedural" TV shows. Only one show POI pushing the boundaries.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> One thing I really like about this show is all the names Fusco calls Root.


 Someone should make a list of all of them. Wait...this is the internet - someone probably already has.



JYoung said:


> BTW, who knew the Machine had a sense of humor? Fusco kissing Root because its a simulation.


That was hilarious.



JYoung said:


> Also, I like when it simplified the simulation and our characters were saying things like Cooly delivered sadistic warning.


I loved that too. It also reminded me of some skinemax short I saw years ago with lines like "Call to Supreme Being"

It would have been nice if they showed us a simulation where the assets were saved successfully, but the stock market objective was not met. I did not notice that the primary objective flipped when we went to real time.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

JYoung said:


> Also, I like when it simplified the simulation and our characters were saying things like Cooly delivered sadistic warning.


Yeah, it turned the simulation into a game of Mad Libs. 

It also reminded me of this song:


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> One thing I really like about this show is all the names Fusco calls Root.


And that she responds without thinking twice.


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

To me this was one of the worst eps in a long time. The ending had some impact, but the simulation part was too long and overdone. I was mainly bored through the middle of the episode. I usually really like the show, but this one was a miss for me.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

jlb said:


> Let's assume she's not dead, and she is off the show for a while to raise her twins....they could easily have her be "broken" or something like struggling to cope with she's not as infallible as she thought she was, all while recuperating from some warm island place. And as long as she has internet wherever that were to occur, she could help research numbers.
> 
> The question is if that really adds to the show. Prob not. But who knows.


Shaw being broken would be if she wakes up with no memory and no longer being a sociopath. She marries, has a family and then on day John Reese comes by and reactivates her.



cheesesteak said:


> There's something about Root that I don't like and have never liked. I was mentally shouting "Why couldn't it be Root?" when Shaw sacrificed herself.
> 
> How did Fusco know he was in a simulation when he kissed Root?" Was that just an inside joke?
> 
> How did Shaw know what ducts to crawl through to rescue the team?


Fusco was just a chess piece in The Machine's simulation.

Better, is why couldn't Root load the "virus" (That was a shell command  ) Remember that when when we met her she hacked Harold so thoroughly he pulled the plug on the library.

One thing about The Machine running the options: it depends on the Samaritan goons acting according to the script, much less The Machine's team.

Save the Degas - _that's hanging in the sub basement._


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

This show has the best writers by far. Although I am also in the camp that playing the complete lead in to each simulation got old fast. After the first rewind, each additional one should have begun with root taking off her head phones and everyone heading for the door. My wife hates the blonde samaritan agent, I think she is hot hot hot.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

eddyj said:


> I would be happy if the Machine figured out a way to destroy Samaritan. I liked the show better pre-Samaritan.


+1

This is an entirely different show from the one I enjoyed when it first began. I recognize I'm in the minority, but I think this show has now gone WAY over the top. The story lines belong in comic books, the shootouts are inane, and the characters have become caricatures of themselves. Again, clearly just my opinion.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I was kinda expecting the chess guy that Harold rebuffed to finally play the machine and win.

The server room door had a "Server Room" sign on it. Not the most secure building in the world.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Interview with showrunner Jonathon Nolan. No future spoilers, but it does discuss the true fate of Shaw.

http://tvline.com/2015/01/09/person-of-interest-shaw-dead-returns-root-reaction/

And one interesting quote about the captions. Not really a spoiler, more along the lines of poking fun at how people get caught up in every little clue...



> Was the episode-ending, cut-to-black bang a gunshot or, as a few have suggested, merely the elevator door slamming shut? Nolan plays coy: I dont know  what did you think? Informed that closed captioning denoted [Gunshot], they react with a roar of laughter. Is that right?? marvels Plageman. Grumbles Nolan, We spent half an hour at the sound mix making that [indeterminate] sound! You cant read the closed captions, those people are renegades! Theyre writing their own damn show.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

That was the gunshottiest sounding elevator door closing I've ever heard.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Wouldn't killing Shaw off because Sarah Shahi got pregnant be an FMLA violation?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> That was the gunshottiest sounding elevator door closing I've ever heard.


Yeah but, it'll turn out that the shot was Shaw shooting Melinda or whatever.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

DouglasPHill said:


> This show has the best writers by far. Although I am also in the camp that playing the complete lead in to each simulation got old fast. After the first rewind, each additional one should have begun with root taking off her head phones and everyone heading for the door. My wife hates the blonde samaritan agent, I think she is hot hot hot.


Yes, she's smoking hot.

Agree that the lead in replay to each sim got old fast. Needed tighter editing. I don't fault those here who found that aspect tedious although I liked the episode. Needed tighter editing. The various sims with the Degas artwork were a hoot.



ADG said:


> +1
> 
> This is an entirely different show from the one I enjoyed when it first began. I recognize I'm in the minority, but I think this show has now gone WAY over the top. The story lines belong in comic books, *the shootouts are inane*, and the characters have become caricatures of themselves. Again, clearly just my opinion.


From Day One the shootouts have been inane. Also the fight scenes have always been more comic book than on other "adventure/cop/spy shows. Nothing new.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

The fight scenes are the least of the comic book fantasy. This world has logical failings in every show and the technical stuff is laughable.

This is not one of the sillier worlds though, and the creative writing and great job by the cast make POI enjoyable.


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## ADG (Aug 20, 2003)

I agree, but it's not just the fighting and shootouts. The story lines and technical details are ridiculous. NYSE servers in the basement of a building with limited security? And you can manipulate the market by cutting some wires in that basement? Competing computers with 100% AI? People who can become whomever and whatever they want in the blink of an eye (a detective, a secret service agent, etc.) with little or no explanation to the audience as to how that's accomplished? And - well, never mind. You get the point


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

ADG said:


> ...
> And you can manipulate the market by cutting some wires in that basement?
> ...


My recollection is the cut wires were part of the lift [elevator] circuit.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Darn cliffhangers. And just as it was starting to look promising for some hot makeout action.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

jlb said:


> Let's assume she's not dead, and she is off the show for a while to raise her twins....they could easily have her be "broken" or something like struggling to cope with she's not as infallible as she thought she was, all while recuperating from some warm island place. And as long as she has internet wherever that were to occur, she could help research numbers.
> 
> The question is if that really adds to the show. Prob not. But who knows.


Tahiti is a wonderful place. (Don't know if I smeaked)


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> There's something about Root that I don't like and have never liked. I was mentally shouting "Why couldn't it be Root?" when Shaw sacrificed herself.
> 
> How did Fusco know he was in a simulation when he kissed Root?" Was that just an inside joke?
> 
> How did Shaw know what ducts to crawl through to rescue the team?


You do know what a computer simulation is right? "Fusco" was not there, that as just the machine's representation of him, his "avatar"


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Fahtrim said:


> You do know what a computer simulation is right? "Shaw" was not there, that as just the machine's representation of him, his "avatar"


You do know that "Shaw" is a her, right?


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

busyba said:


> You do know that "Shaw" is a her, right?


oops typo, mean Fusco, fixing


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

ADG said:


> I agree, but it's not just the fighting and shootouts. The story lines and technical details are ridiculous. NYSE servers in the basement of a building with limited security? And you can manipulate the market by cutting some wires in that basement? Competing computers with 100% AI? People who can become whomever and whatever they want in the blink of an eye (a detective, a secret service agent, etc.) with little or no explanation to the audience as to how that's accomplished? And - well, never mind. You get the point


so you don't like fictional tv?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Apparently, not everyone liked the Shaw/Root kiss. Here's a letter to the editor printed in Saturday's NY Daily News from some brain surgeon:

Scarsdale, N.Y.: I don't make a habit of criticizing television shows. One of my favorite shows since its beginning has been "Person of Interest." However, after watching the show this week, it is doubtful I will do so again, because two women were kissing - which added nothing to the plot and was totally unnecessary. You may call me homophobic, and that is not so. However, I think it is not necessary to interject that into my shows. I know it is completely OK on cable, but not on network TV. I know I have the option of not watching, and unfortunately that is what I will do. --Helen Centorrino​


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## AeneaGames (May 2, 2009)

busyba said:


> Apparently, not everyone liked the Shaw/Root kiss. Here's a letter to the editor printed in Saturday's NY Daily News from some brain surgeon:
> 
> Scarsdale, N.Y.: I dont make a habit of criticizing television shows. One of my favorite shows since its beginning has been Person of Interest. However, after watching the show this week, it is doubtful I will do so again, because two women were kissing  which added nothing to the plot and was totally unnecessary. You may call me homophobic, and that is not so. However, I think it is not necessary to interject that into my shows. I know it is completely OK on cable, but not on network TV. I know I have the option of not watching, and unfortunately that is what I will do. --Helen Centorrino​


Wow, that is silly! Wonder if she would have the same reaction when a man and a woman kiss on a tv show, probably not...


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## jamesl (Jul 12, 2012)

AeneaGames said:


> Wow, that is silly! Wonder if she would have the same reaction when a man and a woman kiss on a tv show, probably not...


well if it had been Fusco kissing Reese goodbye I'd probably have the same reaction


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

AeneaGames said:


> Wow, that is silly! Wonder if she would have the same reaction when a man and a woman kiss on a tv show, probably not...


It always annoys me when people are in a life and death situation, pressed for time, running for their lives, and they stop to kiss or have a personal conversation. Literary license, I guess. If she died, then that last kiss is nice--if not then it's just out of place. As far as the relationship between her and Root, they've been hinting at that for a while, so ok. Not out of the blue.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

AeneaGames said:


> Wow, that is silly! Wonder if she would have the same reaction when a man and a woman kiss on a tv show, probably not...


Hey! One is a woman who has a clear bloodline to the former Shah of Iran, HRRRRMPH! "Shaw," indeed.

How about THE Machine somehow staying active and connected to everything in whatever secret underground location, without any on site system administrators, etc. I suppose it embezzles to pay get the power and telecom bill paid. What happens when the hardware get to end of service life? When a failed disk needs to be swapped?

THEN when the two all knowing, all connected, AI machines want to talk to each other they arrange a clandestine meet of avatars in a secret location. _Ever heard of email, Twitter, Facebook? We know that THE Machine can do SMS texting._ That's only for them to monitor other people on?


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

busyba said:


> Apparently, not everyone liked the Shaw/Root kiss. Here's a letter to the editor printed in Saturday's NY Daily News from some brain surgeon:
> 
> Scarsdale, N.Y.: I dont make a habit of criticizing television shows. One of my favorite shows since its beginning has been Person of Interest. However, after watching the show this week, it is doubtful I will do so again, because two women were kissing  which added nothing to the plot and was totally unnecessary. You may call me homophobic, and that is not so. However, I think it is not necessary to interject that into my shows. I know it is completely OK on cable, but not on network TV. I know I have the option of not watching, and unfortunately that is what I will do. --Helen Centorrino​


Fusco/Shaw kiss: nothing said

Root/Shaw kiss: not OK, should only be on cable, blah, blah

*You may call me homophobic, and that is not so*:


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

I know root had a thing for Shaw but I was never sold on Shaw feeling the same way. I think Shaw kissed root to prevent her from stopping her from hitting the button.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

In this episode every scenario: They're all hiding in a lunch room with fresh brewing coffee and a untouched stack of muffins _but no employees anywhere_. _That_ is more unbelievable than anything else BUT they're hiding from the hail of gunfire throught the dorr that is hitting all around them, and the machine tells Root, "All of you, go out that door and turn left AND THEY DO and they don't get hit..."


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

MikeAndrews said:


> In this episode every scenario: They're all hiding in alunch room with fresh brewing coffee and a untouched stack of muffins but no employees anywhere. _That_ is more unbelievable than anything else BUT they're hiding from the hail of gunfire throught the dorr that is hitting all around them, and the machine tells Root, "All of you, go out that door and turn left AND THEY DO and they don't get hit..."


I think the gunmen on the other side of the door paused to reload or something. It's TV. Something has to happen to save our heros.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> It always annoys me when people are in a life and death situation, pressed for time, running for their lives, and they stop to kiss or have a personal conversation. Literary license, I guess. If she died, then that last kiss is nice--if not then it's just out of place. As far as the relationship between her and Root, they've been hinting at that for a while, so ok. Not out of the blue.


Count me in with robojerk.

Shaw used the kiss as a way of pushing Root back and locking the elevator door (thus ensuring Shaw not Root pushed the button).

It is not yet fully resolved if Shaw feels for Root what Root feels for Shaw.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I just don't know what to think about people who watch a TV show where every episode someone is shot, beaten up, and/or otherwise hurt badly and many episodes show people murdered in cold blood, and they're fine with it. Yeah, bring it on! It's all just TV, whatevs.

But show two women or two men kissing and OH MY GOD! Gratuitous filth!! I'll never watch this show again!!!

Some people have some seriously f'd up perspective.



pgogborn said:


> It is not yet fully resolved if Shaw feels for Root what Root feels for Shaw.


 Shaw labels herself a psychopath which implies she doesn't have much if any empathy, and is unlikely to develop feelings for anyone else. But of course, anything is possible .


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> THEN when the two all knowing, all connected, AI machines want to talk to each other they arrange a clandestine meet of avatars in a secret location. _Ever heard of email, Twitter, Facebook? We know that THE Machine can do SMS texting._ That's only for them to monitor other people on?


The Machine was refusing to listen/respond to Samaritan's messages (which is why Samaritan created chaos on the streets).

Samaritan wanted to 'eyeball' the Machine's human agents and make sure they heard the message.

Just how far the Machine will go to protect its human agents is what Samaritan wants to know and is one of the big story lines.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

madscientist said:


> Shaw labels herself a psychopath which implies she doesn't have much if any empathy, and is unlikely to develop feelings for anyone else. But of course, anything is possible .


Sociopath, actually, but yeah. I don't think she has any more feelings for Root than she does for any other member of the team. The kiss was just to meant to distract Root for a moment. And maybe to serve her as something of "a lovely parting gift," as they used to say on the game shows.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

pgogborn said:


> Just how far the Machine will go to protect its human agents is what Samaritan wants to know and is one of the big story lines.


And this will probably be the cause of Samaritans ultimate downfall - when its operatives realize they have NO value and NOTHING would be done to protect them. The Machine won't defeat Samaritan - an internal uprising will. IMO


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I only watched fragments of a couple of episodes when this show first came on. Tuesday, I was flipping through inputs on the TV and this ep was spooling in the buffer. It looked interesting so I hit record.

Of course, I only recognized the two main guys, so now I guess I'll have to go back and catch up on several seasons to find out who all these characters are.


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## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

madscientist said:


> I just don't know what to think about people who watch a TV show where every episode someone is shot, beaten up, and/or otherwise hurt badly and many episodes show people murdered in cold blood, and they're fine with it. Yeah, bring it on! It's all just TV, whatevs.
> 
> But show two women or two men kissing and OH MY GOD! Gratuitous filth!! I'll never watch this show again!!!


So this.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

So it was OK when it was guys?















Go to 1:04






I kinda remember that Starsky and Hutch had more than a little innuendo even if they were drolling at stripeprs at the beginning.

AND I just realized that they had the character Huggy Bear.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Go to 1:04
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Arrrgh.

I can tell just by listening that's from a unadjusted PAL source.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

JYoung said:


> So I didn't realize that we were watching the "What If" scenario until Harold took a bullet in the server room.


Was that the first iteration? I don't remember, but it seems like it wasn't.

What is the earliest "It was just a simulation" that people remember? The beginning of Star Trek II is the earliest I can think of.

Also, a more recent appearance of the *opposite case* is something I'll spoiler..



Spoiler



Does anybody know of other and/or earlier cases of "you think it's a simulation but it's not" other than "Ender's Game"?


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

I'm pretty sure it was the first.

Putting something behind spoiler warnings with no clue as to what it is spoiling doesn't do any good unless someone has seen every piece of television and movie ever made.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

OK, I fixed my leadin to the spoiler.

I remembered one other thing. One of the extras when they get into the shootout every time is *really* bad. He's in the middle/upper right of the screen.. They come out of a door, and shoot him.. You see him *stick his arms out in front of himself* and catch himself when he falls.

I think they used the same footage a few times, but I don't think every single time (I think you saw people shoot different people a few times). Unless I'm wrong, you see him catch himself after being shot several times.

If I were shot, would I try to catch myself? Yes, of course, but I sure don't think it would be that blatantly obvious.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

mattack said:


> Was that the first iteration? I don't remember, but it seems like it wasn't.
> 
> What is the earliest "It was just a simulation" that people remember? The beginning of Star Trek II is the earliest I can think of.
> 
> ...


Total Recall.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

mattack said:


> Was that the first iteration? I don't remember, but it seems like it wasn't.


Yes, it most certainly was the first.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

DouglasPHill said:


> This show has the best writers by far.


The stories are decent, but the writing itself isn't that great. This show has the most absolutely ridiculous exposition scenes by far.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

MikeAndrews said:


> Better, is why couldn't Root load the "virus"


Because the machine chose the best of over 830,000 simulations and in that scenario, Root didn't do it, Harold did.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

kettledrum said:


> I did not notice that the primary objective flipped when we went to real time.


That's because there was no flip of the objectives. The primary objective in all of the simulations and real time was "Evacuate Assets" while the secondary objective was "Prevent Financial Crisis"


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

mattack said:


> Was that the first iteration? I don't remember, but it seems like it wasn't.


Yes, it was.

First Scenario: Finch and Root go to the server room while Reese and Fusco go to the elevator room.
Finch and Root get shot in the server room.

Second Scenario: Reese and Fusco go to the server room while Root and Finch go to the elevator room.
Reese gets shot and kamikazes with the standard issue Decima grenade.

Third Scenario: All four go to the server room.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

Not a Spoiler but indication that the producers have no thoughts of "finishing" the Samaritan AI vs AI theme and returning to a weekly "rescue this week's number" procedural like 90% of the adventure shows on TV.

Nolan: I think we've been steadily lifting the stakes on this conflict between two artificial intelligences. A lot of [real-life scientists focus on] the emergence of one A.I.; for us, we're on the next level, saying no, there'd be an ecosystem here. It felt natural to us that one begets another, there'd be an ecosystem of artificial intelligence, and their conflict with each other might have disastrous consequences for us. [Our two A.I.s'] cold war with one another is about to get a little hotter.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/person-interest-eps-shaws-death-763408


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Shouldn't the above post belong to a new thread titled
Person of Interest Jan 12 2014 "Control-Alt-Delete"
My Bad


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

AeneaGames said:


> Wow, that is silly! Wonder if she would have the same reaction when a man and a woman kiss on a tv show, probably not...


Now who's the brain surgeon?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

robojerk said:


> Shouldn't the above post belong to a new thread titled
> Person of Interest Jan 12 2014 "Control-Alt-Delete"


Nope. Why would you even think that?
The article only discusses this episode "If-Then-Else" and was written pre "Control-Alt-Delete" and has nothing to do with that episode.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

philw1776 said:


> Not a Spoiler but indication that the producers have no thoughts of "finishing" the Samaritan AI vs AI theme and returning to a weekly "rescue this week's number" procedural like 90% of the adventure shows on TV.
> 
> Nolan: I think we've been steadily lifting the stakes on this conflict between two artificial intelligences. A lot of [real-life scientists focus on] the emergence of one A.I.; for us, we're on the next level, saying no, there'd be an ecosystem here. It felt natural to us that one begets another, there'd be an ecosystem of artificial intelligence, and their conflict with each other might have disastrous consequences for us. [Our two A.I.s'] cold war with one another is about to get a little hotter.
> 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/person-interest-eps-shaws-death-763408


"Yeah, we were going to have to have a very difficult conversation with Jim Caviezel [who stars as John Reese] this year, and Sarah saved us."

So they were planning on killing Reese?!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

busyba said:


> "Yeah, we were going to have to have a very difficult conversation with Jim Caviezel [who stars as John Reese] this year, and Sarah saved us."
> 
> So they were planning on killing Reese?!


Can you imagine? Going with Root and Shaw. Cagney and Lacey?

I still say that Shaw can come back in a season or two after being undercover, amnesia, in rehab whatever.


Spoiler



Don't expect we'll see them burying Shaw tonight - based on the "WHERE IS SHE?" in the previews.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

busyba said:


> "Yeah, we were going to have to have a very difficult conversation with Jim Caviezel [who stars as John Reese] this year, and Sarah saved us."
> 
> So they were planning on killing Reese?!


I'm pretty sure that was a joke.


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## AeneaGames (May 2, 2009)

crazywater said:


> Now who's the brain surgeon?


I wouldn't want her touching my brain, that's for sure!


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## oscarfish (Mar 2, 2009)

I think I got this right. The Machine used the following labels/names for the four that were trapped.

Harold is Admin
Root is Analog Interface
John is Primary Asset
Fusco is Secondary Asset

I have been really confused lately about what relationship Harold has with the Machine vs what relationship Root has. Root seemed to lose comm a few episodes ago but now it's back.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

What happened to Samaritan sending its Avatar, the kid, to the White House to talk to POTUS?


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