# DVR Expander - WD External HD Questions



## jethrodesign (Mar 2, 2006)

Hi, I've had a 1TB 'DVR Expander' (the Western Digital external drive) for my TiVo Premier working well for a few years now. Between the Premier (350GB I think?!?) and this drive, they are about 60% full now.

Unfortunately, my Premier just died (I have a thread about what to replace with here). So just had a couple questions about this external drive.

*QUESTIONS:
1)* Can I connect this drive to a newer TiVo, like a Bolt VOX or Edge if I get one?
*1a)* As the drive has content on it currently, would the new TiVo be able to reformat it so it would be usable with it?

*2) * Since it's a few years old now, can I (and should I) replace the internal drive first so it would be new?
*2a)* Are there specific drives that have to be used with these so they continue to work with a TiVo, and would the TiVo properly format the new drive?

Thanks for any advice here! I'm thinking about getting a Bolt VOX 500GB model to replace my Premier, so the additional storage would be nice.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Most likely, the DVR Expander drive failed and the Tivo Premiere works just fine without it. Its a TCD746320 which has a 320GB drive. (see the back label for the model number.) You can replace the internal Premiere drive with another, but it needs to be a CMR type drive. WD Red plus (models end in EFRX or EFZX) would work. Most other drives are SMR, which does not work in Tivo. Premiere does not format drives and an image must be placed on it beforehand. If it can run without the external drive, then you can connect the internal drive to a PC/Windows, use DVRBars and backup the image. (If not, you need to ask for an image for the model.) Restore to a new drive. If the new drive is bigger than the original (320GB) then you need to expand it with MFSTools 3.3.

Using an external drive in conjunction with the internal drive is frowned upon here as it creates more points for failure and losing shows. (connections, drive, etc.) The way it works with Tivo is shows are stored on both drives at the same time (parts on one and other parts on the other.) Failure of one drive and all of those shows is lost.

A single large drive internally is the better way to go.

Bolts are another story where the drive fails more times than you can count. The internal drives are laptop drives (2.5 inch) and they tend to fail very often. You can use PC (3.5 inch) drives (like WD Red Plus), but you have to use an external case because they do not fit inside Bolts, and connect to the internal connector. (can't use that eSATA port.)

The software interface of Bolts use TE4/v21, which is very different than what you are used to on Premiere/TE3/v20.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

ThAbtO said:


> The software interface of Bolts use TE4/v21, which is very different than what you are used to on Premiere/TE3/v20.


All TiVo Bolts (except the OTA only version) work with TE3/v20. I am currently running my Bolt Vox with TE3/v20.


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## jethrodesign (Mar 2, 2006)

Hi, thanks for the replies. Sorry, didn't clarify, but I'm pretty sure the power supply is what went out on Premier (no lights, fan, nothing). I don't have a reason to believe that either of the drives went bad. And I'm just not sure if I want to dump more $$$ into the old Premier to 'try' to repair it, since I also unfortunately still have the monthly fee 

And I do totally understand the technical downside of using the external drive. I'm guessing it must function in some fashion similar to a 'RAID 0' type of setup and that you lose everything if 1 drive goes down. Fortunately for me, I suppose, is that they've been going fine for many years. But in the back of my mind I've always known my shows could disappear at any moment. In the current case, if I don't want to try to repair my Premier, I've lost all of the shows anyway.

- So just wonder if anyone could offer any insight into my initial questions IF I understand and accept the downsides of using the external drive.

As to the software interface, I'll look into that separately. What I've seen of the TE4 (watched a couple videos on it) actually looks appealing to me. But I'll explore that in more depth elsewhere.

I guess my main reason for wanting to know about the Extender is in case I replace my device with something that has a 500GB drive, which is most likely, even if I get an even older device like a Roamio (I do like the possibility of using the TiVo without cable if I cut the cord someday).

Thanks!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Roamio is better than a Bolt. (Unlike the Premiere, it does not require an image and can self-format.) The internal drive is easier to replace. The Roamio Basic and OTA models use a power wart adapter instead of the internal power supply, upgrading that is easier and the OEM adapter is a bit under sized. Best to have a 3amp or higher instead of the OEM 2amp.


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## jethrodesign (Mar 2, 2006)

OK, thanks for the additional insight here.

Does anyone have any experience or knowledge about the external 'DVR Extender' that my initial questions are regarding??


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

jethrodesign said:


> OK, thanks for the additional insight here.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience or knowledge about the external 'DVR Extender' that my initial questions are regarding??


Already as noted.



ThAbtO said:


> Using an external drive in conjunction with the internal drive is frowned upon here as it creates more points for failure and losing shows. (connections, drive, etc.) The way it works with Tivo is shows are stored on both drives at the same time (parts on one and other parts on the other.) Failure of one drive and all of those shows is lost.


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## Hickoryw (Dec 6, 2008)

I believe his questions 2 and 2a are asking about replacing the drive in the expander.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

jethrodesign said:


> .... So just had a couple questions about this external drive.
> 
> *QUESTIONS:
> 1)* Can I connect this drive to a newer TiVo, like a Bolt VOX or Edge if I get one?
> *1a)* As the drive has content on it currently, would the new TiVo be able to reformat it so it would be usable with it?


1) If it has an eSata connector then yes. (Not sure if Edge has one)

2) You lose all content on that drive.



jethrodesign said:


> *2) * Since it's a few years old now, can I (and should I) replace the internal drive first so it would be new?
> *2a)* Are there specific drives that have to be used with these so they continue to work with a TiVo, and would the TiVo properly format the new drive?


1) Not necessarily. However you could replace the internal drive with a larger drive (up to 4TB without too much trouble) and use MFSTools to combine your current internal and external drive onto the larger single drive. 

2) For TiVo to format an external drive, the drive has to be on the whitelist stored in the TiVo OS. Those drives are no longer manufactured. If you use MFSTools, you can marry any external drive to the internal drive of the TiVo regardless of the drive being on the whitelist or not. 


Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## jethrodesign (Mar 2, 2006)

Sorry for any confusion here. I was ONLY questioning the external hard drive, known as the '*DVR Expander*' by TiVo (as detailed here), or officially as the *Western Digital 1TB My Book AV DVR Expander*' external hard drive (as shown here). I have this drive, and it had been working fine for a few years with my TiVo Premier until the Premier died (prob bad power supply on Premier).

So my questions are to help me know if this *external drive*, which I understand is no longer sold, could still be of use to me on a new TiVo device. This would take into consideration that I fully understand the risks of having 2 points of failure, as the external and internal drives operate more like a 'RAID 0' where if one goes you lose everything.

I would imagine from reading into the first page of info above that I just found, the drive 'could' be plugged into a Roamio or Bolt where it would be reformatted and 'married' to that new device.

- Can anyone confirm this is the case?



> 2) For TiVo to format an external drive, the drive has to be on the whitelist stored in the TiVo OS. Those drives are no longer manufactured. I


So I'm just wondering if it is something about the hard drive in the external device that makes it compatible with the TiVo, or the controller board or chipset in the enclosure that does?!? That is my *Question 2a*. 

- If I put a very similar bare drive, or 'maybe' the same if still manufactured, into the WD My Book enclosure, would it be read properly by the TiVo?? 

Just thought someone might have tried that at some point over the years.

Thanks again for any insight here!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

I had one of those and they failed after about 5+ yrs. The drive inside died and after I had disconnected it, the Tivo Series 3 booted right up.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

jethrodesign said:


> ......I would imagine from reading into the first page of info above that I just found, the drive 'could' be plugged into a Roamio or Bolt where it would be reformatted and 'married' to that new device.
> 
> - Can anyone confirm this is the case?.....


Confirmed that is the case. You will lose access to any recordings on the external drive. 



jethrodesign said:


> ....So I'm just wondering if it is something about the hard drive in the external device that makes it compatible with the TiVo, or the controller board or chipset in the enclosure that does?!? That is my *Question 2a*.
> 
> - If I put a very similar bare drive, or 'maybe' the same if still manufactured, into the WD My Book enclosure, would it be read properly by the TiVo??
> 
> ...


The whitelist in the TiVo OS lists drive model numbers. 

I can take the external drive out of the TiVo enclosure and put it in a drive dock and as long as I connect it via eSata from the dock to the TiVo, it will work. 
Placing any other drive of any capacity in the external TiVo extender case, the TiVo ignores. (Unless the drive model number appears in the whitelist)

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## jethrodesign (Mar 2, 2006)

> The whitelist in the TiVo OS lists drive model numbers.
> 
> I can take the external drive out of the TiVo enclosure and put it in a drive dock and as long as I connect it via eSata from the dock to the TiVo, it will work.
> Placing any other drive of any capacity in the external TiVo extender case, the TiVo ignores. (Unless the drive model number appears in the whitelist)


Ahhh, I see. So it's the drive, not the enclosure or controller board, that is the primary issue for compatibility. Hmm. I wonder why those external drive/enclosures were the only ones 'compatible' with TiVo back when I was getting it?!? I can't imagine the WD drive inside of it was that unique, was it?!?


So is this 'whitelist' anywhere I could find and look over?
What is the model of drive originally in these WD MyBook enclosures (haven't cracked my open to look yet)?

Thx!


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

jethrodesign said:


> Ahhh, I see. So it's the drive, not the enclosure or controller board, that is the primary issue for compatibility. Hmm. I wonder why those external drive/enclosures were the only ones 'compatible' with TiVo back when I was getting it?!? I can't imagine the WD drive inside of it was that unique, was it?!?
> 
> 
> So is this 'whitelist' anywhere I could find and look over?
> ...


Who knows why. That is something only WD and TiVo know. 

The list is on the drive in your premiere. Find out the model of your TiVo extender drive and search for that on your TiVo drive to find the list. 

If you have an eSata port on your computer you can find out the model number of the drive in the extender. 

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

jethrodesign said:


> Ahhh, I see. So it's the drive, not the enclosure or controller board, that is the primary issue for compatibility. Hmm. I wonder why those external drive/enclosures were the only ones 'compatible' with TiVo back when I was getting it?!? I can't imagine the WD drive inside of it was that unique, was it?!?
> 
> 
> So is this 'whitelist' anywhere I could find and look over?
> ...


The only expanders that TiVo ever approved were variants of WD's My Book external drives specifically marketed as a "My DVR Expander". The whitelist (retrieved from a Premiere) only has a limited selection of drives listed by exact model number and firmware. None of those drives have been made in a very long time.

model=WDC WD10EURX-73C57Y0 fwrev=01.01A01
model=WDC WD5000AVJS-63TRA0 fwrev=12.01C01
model=WDC WD5000AVVS-63ZWB0 fwrev=01.01B01
model=WDC WD5000AVVS-63H0B1 fwrev=05.04C05
model=WDC WD10EVVS-63E1B1 fwrev=01.01A01
model=WDC WD10EVVS-63M5B0 fwrev=01.00A01
model=WDC WD10EVVS-73M5B0 fwrev=01.00A01
model=WDC WD10EVDS-73U8B1 fwrev=01.00A01
model=WDC WD10EURX-73FH1Y0 fwrev=01.01A01


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

When the expansion feature first became available, there was no white-list, you could use any drive. Very quickly another release of the TiVo firmware came out that implemented the white list; but any drives that were already connected remained connected. I think the white list release came out before the expansion feature was actually announced by TiVo.

There was speculation that early adopters were using a lot of junky expanders and TiVo was getting too many support calls, so the white list was an attempt to either get better drives that wouldn't have so many problems, or limit it to the customers who had actually paid TiVo for the privilege.

TiVo eventually discovered that they could reduce the cost of support calls by having the support center never actually solve anyone's problems when called.


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