# Are new apps being developed? (Specifically PlayStation Vue)



## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

After switching away from TiVo long ago when DirecTV released their HD DVRs (and there was no TiVo HD model available for DirecTV), I'm jumping back to TiVo. 

I'm going with the OTA only Roamio, and we are going to subscribe to PlayStation Vue (assuming the 7 day free trial we will start in the near future worked out well).

It would be awesome if a PlayStation Vue apl was released for the Roamio. Any hints that such an app is in the works?


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Nothing specific. In a recent Q&A here, Ira Bahr, Tivo's CMO, made some generalized comments about a desire to expand apps available, but nothing of much specificity.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

You're never going to see a TV multichannel app on Tivo, IMO, because it would piss off their MSO partners. That includes Vue and Sling.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> You're never going to see a TV multichannel app on Tivo, IMO, because it would piss off their MSO partners. That includes Vue and Sling.


I really don't understand this logic.

Why doesn't OTA piss off their MSO partners. What about the fact that you can take your Tivo to a different cable provider if one is in your area? What about Netflix, Amazon Prime, Vudu, MLB.... Why don't those piss off the MSO partners.

Maybe, just maybe, it is a difficult technical challenge. For example, how do you do 1P for PS Vue without a full integration? Right now, it wouldn't work and PS Vue on Tivo would be nothing more than not having to have another box. Does not align with Tivo's search and manage vision for an "entertainment unit."

Maybe that is what is coming? Integration to those kind of services. Something is coming and it is more than just a bigger Bolt if the signs are right.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

BrettStah said:


> After switching away from TiVo long ago when DirecTV released their HD DVRs (and there was no TiVo HD model available for DirecTV), I'm jumping back to TiVo.
> 
> I'm going with the OTA only Roamio, and we are going to subscribe to PlayStation Vue (assuming the 7 day free trial we will start in the near future worked out well).
> 
> It would be awesome if a PlayStation Vue apl was released for the Roamio. Any hints that such an app is in the works?


Note that PS Vue is not as readily available as Sling. Notable absentees are AppleTv and Xbox (I don't think it is available on Android TV either). I don't have it, but many people who do, say that Vue app on Roku is terrible, and actually just the Fire TV works well.

I would personally not "hold my breath" for TiVo to include. For Vue, TiVo is probably the least of the priorities.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

thyname said:


> I would personally not "hold my breath" for TiVo to include. For Vue, TiVo is probably the least of the priorities.


Now that makes sense. And for Tivo as well. Unless both think that adding Vue to Tivo will increase customers, then it won't happen.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Now that makes sense. And for Tivo as well. Unless both think that adding Vue to Tivo will increase customers, then it won't happen.


I think the OTA Roamio plus the Vue service could be a solid combination and could make both more attractive.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> I think the OTA Roamio plus the Vue service could be a solid combination and could make both more attractive.


I think only if they differentiate themselves. They could do that by integrating Vue into the guide, searches and One Pass. If they don't do that, then Tivo is actually a very expensive system for just a Vue app.

Why when Fire TV or Roku are so much cheaper and don't carry an extra service fee?

Right now, Tivo's strength is the single cockpit. Adding Vue as just another app without hooks into it breaks that cockpit paradigm.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> I think only if they differentiate themselves. They could do that by integrating Vue into the guide, searches and One Pass. If they don't do that, then Tivo is actually a very expensive system for just a Vue app.
> 
> Why when Fire TV or Roku are so much cheaper and don't carry an extra service fee?
> 
> Right now, Tivo's strength is the single cockpit. Adding Vue as just another app without hooks into it breaks that cockpit paradigm.


FireTV and Roku don't do OTA recording.

So the pitch is, buy this Roamio and with the addition of an antenna and a Vue subscription, you basically replace a more expensive monthly fee for cable/satellite.

I do agree it would be more beneficial if TiVo and Sony worked out a deal to integrate Vue more.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Anyone know if Vue possibly uses Rovi guide data? If it does, it may make that integration a little easier.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BrettStah said:


> FireTV and Roku don't do OTA recording. So the pitch is, buy this Roamio and with the addition of an antenna and a Vue subscription, you basically replace a more expensive monthly fee for cable/satellite. I do agree it would be more beneficial if TiVo and Sony worked out a deal to integrate Vue more.


But you can get network programming via apps. TiVo doesn't bring anything to the Vue table if they just tack it on.

If they integrate, yes.

It doesn't make tivo a killer box to just add what other boxes already have. Boxes that cord cutters probably have for other reasons anyway and have no extra fees.

ETA: in my market, Vue has one local channel and in demand for all other networks. With a cloud Dvr who needs TiVo? No subs and you may need OTA for local sports but those don't tend to get recorded anyway.

It is a nice thing if they have it but it is not going to bring a stampede of customers to either.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> ...
> 
> It is a nice thing if they have it but it is not going to bring a stampede of customers to either.


I find it highly unlikely anything could bring a stampede of customers beyond giving away their DVRs.

That said the more streaming options TiVo has on their DVRs the more likely they are to pick up a few more customers here and there or at least keep the ones they have now.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> I find it highly unlikely anything could bring a stampede of customers beyond giving away their DVRs. That said the more streaming options TiVo has on their DVRs the more likely they are to pick up a few more customers here and there or at least keep the ones they have now.


But this is not just an app to pick up a few customers. We are talking a replacement for an entire cable system in an app. That is a lot of work to integrate it with TiVo search, etc.

The return on investment pretty much demands a lot of customers.

I'm not saying it won't happen but it has to be a full blown partnership to develop all the hooks and processes.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> But this is not just an app to pick up a few customers. We are talking a replacement for an entire cable system in an app. That is a lot of work to integrate it with TiVo search, etc.
> 
> The return on investment pretty much demands a lot of customers.
> 
> I'm not saying it won't happen but it has to be a full blown partnership to develop all the hooks and processes.


I don't think anyone without familiarity with the Vue codebase and API would really be able to know how much of a challenge it would be to allow an external application to consume its data.

If it was programmed from the beginning with a logically designed API, then integration efforts may not be nearly as challenging as you're guessing, in other words. I'm not saying an app would be created overnight, but the Vue team has written front-end clients for multiple systems already, so I think it's a better assumption to make that such functions exist already, so if they did partner with TiVo on this, it should not be a HUGE undertaking to create another front-end.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> But this is not just an app to pick up a few customers. We are talking a replacement for an entire cable system in an app. That is a lot of work to integrate it with TiVo search, etc.
> 
> The return on investment pretty much demands a lot of customers.
> 
> I'm not saying it won't happen but it has to be a full blown partnership to develop all the hooks and processes.





BrettStah said:


> I don't think anyone without familiarity with the Vue codebase and API would really be able to know how much of a challenge it would be to allow an external application to consume its data.
> 
> If it was programmed from the beginning with a logically designed API, then integration efforts may not be nearly as challenging as you're guessing, in other words. I'm not saying an app would be created overnight, but the Vue team has written front-end clients for multiple systems already, so I think it's a better assumption to make that such functions exist already, so if they did partner with TiVo on this, it should not be a HUGE undertaking to create another front-end.


Search is an interesting question. But I don't think TiVo would actually be searching Vue like they search Netflix or Amazon. They would be searching the guide data for the channels just like they do with any cable system.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> Search is an interesting question. But I don't think TiVo would actually be searching Vue like they search Netflix or Amazon. They would be searching the guide data for the channels just like they do with any cable system.


Yes, this was why I asked the question below actually.



HarperVision said:


> Anyone know if Vue possibly uses Rovi guide data? If it does, it may make that integration a little easier.


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## eherberg (Feb 17, 2011)

TonyD79 said:


> But this is not just an app to pick up a few customers. We are talking a replacement for an entire cable system in an app.


That alone is reason why I doubt it will ever happen. The majority of TiVo's customers are cable systems. Having a replacement in an app for retail customers probably wouldn't go over well in the board room.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

eherberg said:


> That alone is reason why I doubt it will ever happen. The majority of TiVo's customers are cable systems. Having a replacement in an app for retail customers probably wouldn't go over well in the board room.


Why the heck should TiVo care? The MSOs are screwing them over by crying about the FCC's "Unlock the Box" and also their plans to convert to IPTV instead of QAM, effectively killing off the cablecard and access to their protected content.


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## tampa8 (Jan 26, 2016)

I see no substantial reason to have a VUE app. At this time they are a blimp on the TV landscape. How many of the 100,000 VUE customers have a TIVO - how many that don't are going to shell out the kind of money a TIVO costs just to have an app to do what they already have? If the thinking is it would be integrated into the DVR functions not a chance unless the cost of VUE was to rise for that use. Online makes different deals than traditional TV partly based on there is no DVR - no skipping past commercials etc.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

The Vue service does have DVR functions, albeit not as sophisticated and as polished as TiVo's DVRs.


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

BrettStah said:


> The Vue service does have DVR functions, albeit not as sophisticated and as polished as TiVo's DVRs.


Yes, you can already skip commercials on Vue for content you've DVR'd. At least what I've DVR'd so far, anyway.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

hapster85 said:


> Yes, you can already skip commercials on Vue for content you've DVR'd. At least what I've DVR'd so far, anyway.


Skip (the entire block of commercials with ONE press of a button) or fast forward? There is a difference...


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

thyname said:


> Skip (the entire block of commercials with ONE press of a button) or fast forward? There is a difference...


Skip forward, 10 seconds per press, but you can hit it multiple times to jump farther at once. Would be better if it were 30 at a time.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

hapster85 said:


> Skip forward, 10 seconds per press, but you can hit it multiple times to jump farther at once. Would be better if it were 30 at a time.


That's completely different than the SkipMode on TiVo. Do you have TiVo ? What you describe is available with pretty much all DVRs. TiVo always had the 30 sec. Skip, even before SkipMode (which lets you skip the entire block of commercials with one press of D button).


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## hapster85 (Sep 7, 2016)

thyname said:


> That's completely different than the SkipMode on TiVo. Do you have TiVo ? What you describe is available with pretty much all DVRs. TiVo always had the 30 sec. Skip, even before SkipMode (which lets you skip the entire block of commercials with one press of D button).


PlayStation Vue isn't a DVR, it's an app. Do you use apps? Vue employs a virtual DVR, storing content on remote servers, rather than a local hard-drive. I was pointing out that Vue's DVR functionality does indeed allow skipping commercials. There was certainly no guarantee that would be the case, just as it is often not the case with on-demand content. Yes, it requires one to press the skip button not than once. No, that's not the same as skip mode on the TiVo.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

hapster85 said:


> PlayStation Vue isn't a DVR, it's an app. Do you use apps? Vue employs a virtual DVR, storing content on remote servers, rather than a local hard-drive. I was pointing out that Vue's DVR functionality does indeed allow skipping commercials. There was certainly no guarantee that would be the case, just as it is often not the case with on-demand content. Yes, it requires one to press the skip button not than once. No, that's not the same as skip mode on the TiVo.


Yes. I know what apps are, and use them quite often. In addition to my TiVos, I have apps on my 4K Android Tv, Amazon Fire TV, last gen Apple TV, Xbox, Roku.

I also know what the Vue "virtual / cloud" DVR is.

I wanted to point out the difference between the usual 30 sec (or else) skip mode on "regular" DVRs (be it from cable co. providers, or with the cloud DVR on Vue for the commercials), and the TiVo SkipMode. Big difference.

It sounds like you know the difference, so it is all good.


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## Canoe5710 (Nov 29, 2016)

I think Tivo can increase their market for sure by including apps for things like Playstation Vue, Sling, and even DirecTV Now. Even DirecTV can see the writing on the wall that broadband is a fantastic delivery system and for a lot of people, the satellite infrastructure isn't needed.
Playstation Vue is the first streaming service(with Netflix) that can actually replace DirecTV for my family. Like a lot of people, my locals aren't provided over PS Vue, so I need an OTA recording solution for my locals. I'm sitting here deciding whether purchasing a Tivo to record only the major networks is overkill. However, if it makes it easier on my wife and kids to have the OTA channels and recordings in the same spot as Netflix and PS Vue, then it is a very easy decision.


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## BrettStah (Nov 12, 2000)

I'm not sure of the technical hurdles that would be involved, but if the TiVo app platform could support Android TV apps, that would make it super easy for TiVo to add apps for popular services.


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## SteveMR (Nov 29, 2016)

I'm with you Canoe5710. Sure would be nice to not have to add a Roku into the mix. OTA for locals with Vue (or Sling) app would be just right for me. Only two pieces of equipment and two remotes, not three. I think lots of people who buy the OTA will end up looking for more than Netflix or Hulu, and Vue rounds out the package nicely. Integration into the guide would be nice, but I would be happy just to be able to launch into Vue.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Looks like TiVo is moving in a whole different direction with the Mavrik. Rather then having a box with apps on it, the Mavrik looks to be a headless DVR that you access using an app that run on one of the popular streaming platforms. So rather then trying to be the "one box" TiVo will be relinquish that duty to your Roku/FireTV/AppleTV and it will itself run as an app on that device.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

And so totally not following why I need a separate piece of Tivo hardware (Mavrik) to do cloud DVR. It's all software.

The end of DVRs will be the end of Tivo, methinks.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> And so totally not following why I need a separate piece of Tivo hardware (Mavrik) to do cloud DVR. It's all software.
> 
> The end of DVRs will be the end of Tivo, methinks.


Not sure how you tied the upcoming Mavrik to a cloud DVR. My understanding is that the Mavrik is just a headless network attached OTA DVR.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

TiVo's leaked Mavrik is a cloud-based DVR


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> TiVo's leaked Mavrik is a cloud-based DVR


If that is true and there is no local storage option guess I will not be getting one. My upload speeds are less than 1Mbps. No idea why TiVo would force this to be cloud storage seems pretty dumb to me, for an OTA only product not designed around cable cards they could easily use USB storage. Sure hope they don't think this replaces a real stand alone OTA DVR.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

atmuscarella said:


> If that is true and there is no local storage option guess I will not be getting one. My upload speeds are less than 1Mbps. No idea why TiVo would force this to be cloud storage seems pretty dumb to me, for an OTA only product not designed around cable cards they could easily use USB storage. Sure hope they don't think this replaces a real stand alone OTA DVR.


Agreed. Most American ISPs have pretty lousy upload speeds. But I do like the idea of USB 3 for storage. Especially if they support adding multiple drives over time to increase storage.


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