# Is there any rumblings of an MPEG4 DirecTivo?



## MrBigglesworth (Dec 25, 2002)

Hey all, been a while since Ive been around here.

My HR10-250 is still trucking along just fine, but has that age old limitation of MPEG2 decoding, thus being incompatible with the new Sat that is coming online later this month with a lot more HD goodness.

I want more High Def channels, but I realllllly love my Tivo.

The wife is absolutely LIVID that the current HR10-250 is not compatible with the new signals, so the WAF of the DTV rolled units is in negative territory.

I heard that another company that seems to be amicable with Tivo has purchased DirecTV and is no longer owned by News Corp.

So what is the scoop if any?


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

DirecTv has moved in their own direction. You'll hear a bunch of fantasy dreams that they are about to reconcile any day now. They are baseless, but even if theyr were true, it would be a long time before they could get a product to market.

For now your choices are: 

DTV+TiVo+Fewer HD Channels
DTV+HR20+All Channels-TiVo
Cable/Fios+Tivo+Most or all HD Channels.


----------



## MrBigglesworth (Dec 25, 2002)

For me, the third option isnt an option. I live out where there is no such thing as a cable company.

If they just took a generational approach, I would be happy. Basically, the current Tivo, a bigger HDD and MPEG4 capability and I would be super happy. Why they gotta screw things up like this and make importation of high def stuff difficult (wife wise).

UGH.


----------



## blhirsch (Mar 1, 2003)

If I already had an HDDirecTivo, I'd likely have stayed with DirecTV and tolerated their DVR offering for the other HD channels.

But as it was I only had the SD directivos and thus went to FIOS and HDtivo.

Good luck--at least you've got some HD tivo capability. Some is better than none.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

Check out dbstalk.com, there are posts there about getting the upgraded equipment at very little or no cost. Good luck.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

There is no word as of yet whether or not TiVo and D* will get back into bed. D* has made some comments recently that sound like the door is still open.

My guess is that TiVo would not develop a new unit, but instead take the same route as ComcasTiVo and port their software onto the HR-250 or whatever other hardware that D* has.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

How long would that take BlackBetty? It's been a couple of years they've been trying to make that work with Comcast.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Billy66 said:


> How long would that take BlackBetty? It's been a couple of years they've been trying to make that work with Comcast.


Well the work has now been done. Rogers words.



> It was real rocket science to crack the code on how to take everything that makes TiVo code simple and elegant and port it to somebody elses hardware.
> 
> What we have to do by way of Scientific Atlanta development work is nowhere near as much rocket science, having cracked the code on the essence of how to do that.


The key here is that it has been done now. Which will make it a lot easier and faster to do on other boxes.

D* is not going to allow itself to not have some kind of current TiVo offering while Comcast, the biggest cable operator, is offering TiVo.

Cable and Satelite are like giant elephants. They move slowly, but once one moves, they all tend to move in the same direction in packs.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> Well the work has now been done. Rogers said in the last quarterly press conference that it was like rocket science to crack the code to port onto another box.
> 
> The key here is that it has been done now. Which will make it a lot easier and faster to do on other boxes.


That's optimistic seeing as we're about 2 years in and there are zero released to the market.



> D* is not going to allow itself to not have some kind of current TiVo offering while Comcast, the biggest cable operator, is offering TiVo.
> 
> Cable and Satelite are like giant elephants. They move slowly, but once one moves, they all tend to move in the same direction in packs.


Huh? DTV has a DVR that many believe to be better than TiVo. DirecTv just had TiVo and allowed that relationship to end. Why would they not allow themselves to serve their customers better without getting into bed with a lesser company that they already moved away from.

That's a leap in logic that I'm having trouble making.


----------



## milominderbinder (Dec 18, 2006)

Billy66 said:


> DirecTv has moved in their own direction. You'll hear a bunch of fantasy dreams that they are about to reconcile any day now. They are baseless, but even if theyr were true, it would be a long time before they could get a product to market.
> 
> For now your choices are:
> 
> ...


I think that you have one more option that is a very viable one.

I don't think that you have to decide whether to dump TiVo or dump DIRECTV. I kept my TiVo and added the new HD box. 4 tuners, twice the storage.

Here is the thread where that is being discussed:

*HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer*

- Craig

_By the way, the first group of 21 new HD channels launched today._


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Last week while talking to investment bankers the head of Tivo said he had not gotten any phone calls, flowers, or text messages from Directv recently. That was pretty conclusive proof to me that nothing is in the works today.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> Last week while talking to investment bankers the head of Tivo said he had not gotten any phone calls, flowers, or text messages from Directv recently. That was pretty conclusive proof to me that nothing is in the works today.


Key word "Today". What about tomorrow?

Once the sale of D* becomes final, thats when I think things might start brewing.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

BlackBetty said:


> D* is not going to allow itself to not have some kind of current TiVo offering while Comcast, the biggest cable operator, is offering TiVo.


I think you might be overestimating the importance of Tivo in the world.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> I think you might be overestimating the importance of Tivo in the world.


maybe so, but if D* starts losing subs to comcast, you can bet your bottom dollar that D* will have a TiVo offering.


----------



## Matt9876 (Sep 1, 2001)

I did the upgrade to the H-20 and 5lnb dish for $99 and put my old Tivo unit on the new dish.

Not a perfect solution but I can view all the new HD and still use my beloved TiVo .

Some say you can now upgrade for $20 .


----------



## badmonkey (Apr 8, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> maybe so, but if D* starts losing subs to comcast, you can bet your bottom dollar that D* will have a TiVo offering.


Why would they lose subscribers when they have significantly more HD content and a DVR that works just as well (arguably better) than TiVo?

While there is definitely a sizable contingent of TiVo loyalists, I'm fairly certain that the content is what will drive most people. And, right now, D* has the upper hand.

On top of that, most people take whatever hardware they get from their provider and don't ask any questions. The people who read and contribute to these online forums tend to believe that we (myself included) represent the norm. That's just not true. Most people don't pay any attention to the hardware on which they are watching their favorite TV shows...

Just my two cents...


----------



## MrBigglesworth (Dec 25, 2002)

Matt9876 said:


> I did the upgrade to the H-20 and 5lnb dish for $99 and put my old Tivo unit on the new dish.
> 
> Not a perfect solution but I can view all the new HD and still use my beloved TiVo .
> 
> Some say you can now upgrade for $20 .


This would be great. I moved into my current home 11 months ago and they installed a 5LNB Dish already. My understanding is that I just need to BBCs and the receiver itself. I may try giving them a call and see what I can work out. New receiver for the living room, move the Tivo to the bedroom, and if it can be done for $20, hell yeah, Im all over that. Not counting on it though.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

badmonkey said:


> Why would they lose subscribers when they have significantly more HD content and a DVR that works just as well (arguably better) than TiVo?
> 
> While there is definitely a sizable contingent of TiVo loyalists, I'm fairly certain that the content is what will drive most people. And, right now, D* has the upper hand.
> 
> ...


you got to take into account if D* is infriging on TiVo patents. I believe TiVo and D* extended their relationship through 2008 or 2009? which prohibits TiVo from Suing D*. But if TiVo wins the appeal against E* soon, every cable or sat provider that has a generic DVR better watch out, D* included.


----------



## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

BlackBetty said:


> you got to take into account if D* is infriging on TiVo patents. I believe TiVo and D* extended their relationship through 2008 or 2009? which prohibits TiVo from Suing D*. But if TiVo wins the appeal against E* soon, every cable or sat provider that has a generic DVR better watch out, D* included.


Yep. Could get real interesting...



> Quickly touching on our pending EchoStar litigation, the appeal has been fully briefed and all arguments have been scheduled for October 4th of this year, with a decision to follow sometime thereafter. We remain confident in our position on appeal.
> 
> There has been some discussion in the press regarding a recent communication from the U.S. patent and trademark office concerning certain claims of our time-warp patent, and I want to set the record straight on that.
> 
> ...


Taken from the earnings call in August.


----------



## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

BlackBetty said:


> you got to take into account if D* is infriging on TiVo patents. I believe TiVo and D* extended their relationship through 2008 or 2009? which prohibits TiVo from Suing D*. But if TiVo wins the appeal against E* soon, every cable or sat provider that has a generic DVR better watch out, D* included.


Which means Tivo would be suing every Sat and Cable Company.....

Including the same Company that they are currently in partnership with.

Which means you turn your back on every Company you need in order to do business with.

If Tivo did sue every Sat and Cable Company, then Tivo would die! The Companies only way to survive would be to broadcast their very own Programming.

Do you really think Tivo would be that stupid? Sue everyone and kill off their own Company?

Get real now


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

wolflord11 said:


> Which means Tivo would be suing every Sat and Cable Company.....
> 
> Including the same Company that they are currently in partnership with.
> 
> ...


When did I ever say that TiVo would sue every cable and sat provider? Validation of TiVo's patents with a win over E* gives TiVo the upper hand in creating future deals with cable and sat providers. You know what happens when you ASSuME?

Get real now


----------



## skyboysea (Dec 13, 2003)

BlackBetty said:


> maybe so, but if D* starts losing subs to comcast, you can bet your bottom dollar that D* will have a TiVo offering.


As things are now, it is Tivo that is losing subscribers.
I have just switched from a DTivo to an HR20 and after a couple of days to adjust to the new system, I have no regret. At this point the HR20 is a better DVR than Tivo is.


----------



## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > DIRECTV Receiver with TiVo > Tivo is dead > Time for another HR20 commercial

*LMAO*


----------



## MrBigglesworth (Dec 25, 2002)

Doh, I just realized I posted this to the wrong forum, it should have gone in the HD Powered Tivo for DirecTV forum. Sorry guys.


----------



## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

MrBigglesworth said:


> Doh, I just realized I posted this to the wrong forum, it should have gone in the HD Powered Tivo for DirecTV forum. Sorry guys.


Makes no difference. They've all been hijacked.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

As I understand it, DirecTV has an open ended patent licensing agreement with TiVo and is at no risk of being sued by TiVo over patents, now or in the future. What is a limited is the co-development agreement which provides TiVo some ongoing revenue while they make software changes for the TiVo-based DirecTV boxes.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Thanks Steve,
So are you saying that if the co-development agreement ends, then D* is fair game like everyone else?


----------



## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

stevel said:


> As I understand it, DirecTV has an open ended patent licensing agreement with TiVo and is at no risk of being sued by TiVo over patents, now or in the future. What is a limited is the co-development agreement which provides TiVo some ongoing revenue while they make software changes for the TiVo-based DirecTV boxes.


I interpreted the last minute agreement between TiVo and DTV (it came just days before the ruling againt E* in April) meant that DTV had a 3 year "waiver". Yeah, there was the talk about software changes, and management of those co-branded devices, but there was also talk about neither filing a lawsuit against each other during this time. My understanding would be that after this 3 years, DTV is just as vulnerable as anyone else.


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Well, as they say, I Am Not a Lawyer. My interpretation has been that DirecTV is in the clear now and forever, at least regarding any TiVo patents that have already been issued. This is very common for patent licensing agreements and many companies cross license their patent portfolios.


----------



## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

stevel said:


> Well, as they say, I Am Not a Lawyer. My interpretation has been that DirecTV is in the clear now and forever, at least regarding any TiVo patents that have already been issued. This is very common for patent licensing agreements and many companies cross license their patent portfolios.


I agree with stevel.

Directv and Tivo have an open-ended patent licensing agreement meaning Directv can never be sued by Tivo.

The co-development agreement does have an ending date assigned to it. But basically all this is for is the upgrading etc of Software. Once this agreement is over, Tivo no longer gets any revenue, and Directv fully takes over the Software side of things.


----------



## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

"Directv fully takes over the Software side of things."

I'm still unclear if the "non-lawsuit" deal is forever, or for just the three years. But you mentioned the above. DTV will fully take over updating and supporting the TiVo software on the DirecTV/TiVo units? How could they do that?


----------



## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Do not confuse the software development agreement with patent licensing. What DirecTV extended was the amount of time for which it subcontracts to TiVo for software development and pays TiVo a portion of the DVR fee. My recollection is that the patent agreement does not have an expiration.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

20TIL6 said:


> DTV will fully take over updating and supporting the TiVo software on the DirecTV/TiVo units? How could they do that?


Simple, just provide phone support for the existing legacy equipment and then manage the chain through attrition. My DTiVo's don't *need* anything new to function, so DirecTv doesn't need to write any code for them.


----------



## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Billy66 said:


> Simple, just provide phone support for the existing legacy equipment and then manage the chain through attrition. My DTiVo's don't *need* anything new to function, so DirecTv doesn't need to write any code for them.


On the contrary, were you around when DTV modified the satellite stream information and caused DTivos to begin rebooting randomly and missing recordings? DTivos can need software to be updated.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I was bengelfreak. You make a great point.


----------



## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> DirecTv has moved in their own direction. You'll hear a bunch of fantasy dreams that they are about to reconcile any day now. They are baseless, but even if theyr were true, it would be a long time before they could get a product to market....


How do you know they are baseless? Do you have statements from DirecTV stating they are not working with Tivo on a follow-on product? In fact, the recent DirecTV statements are quite the opposite giving those of us who want a follow-on Tivo something renewed hope. Do you have knowledge of the engineering and programming required to develop a new product?  I doubt it. For all we know, it could be developed in a matter of months instead of years.

Our fantasies may one day become reality.


----------



## MoparAngel (Nov 4, 2006)

RS4 said:


> How do you know they are baseless? Do you have statements from DirecTV stating they are not working with Tivo on a follow-on product? In fact, the recent DirecTV statements are quite the opposite giving those of us who want a follow-on Tivo something renewed hope. Do you have knowledge of the engineering and programming required to develop a new product?  I doubt it. For all we know, it could be developed in a matter of months instead of years.
> 
> Our fantasies may one day become reality.


Quick History about my Tivo situation....I had a Phillips Tivo Unit from Directv, it died. (hit by lightning)  I cried for days. I have gone through 3 of their "replacement" DVRs in a YEAR AND A HALF!!! (they won't admit that they are junk?)

Anywho, going through the guide today, and on Channel 582 it says, "TiVo Basic Ad Feature Test Video" Not to keep this going, but does anyone know what that is about?

Maybe there is hope?


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

MoparAngel said:


> Quick History about my Tivo situation....I had a Phillips Tivo Unit from Directv, it died. (hit by lightning)  I cried for days. I have gone through 3 of their "replacement" DVRs in a YEAR AND A HALF!!! (they won't admit that they are junk?)
> 
> Anywho, going through the guide today, and on Channel 582 it says, "TiVo Basic Ad Feature Test Video" Not to keep this going, but does anyone know what that is about?
> 
> Maybe there is hope?


Why not just buy a used DirecTivo if it means that much to you?


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> How do you know they are baseless? Do you have statements from DirecTV stating they are not working with Tivo on a follow-on product? In fact, the recent DirecTV statements are quite the opposite giving those of us who want a follow-on Tivo something renewed hope. Do you have knowledge of the engineering and programming required to develop a new product?  I doubt it. For all we know, it could be developed in a matter of months instead of years.
> 
> Our fantasies may one day become reality.


How do I know it's baseless? Because there is no basis in fact for this conjecture. I don't have to show there is no basis for it, you have to show that there is one.

I do have knowledge of the programming and engineering required to bring a product to market as new product development was my job for over 10 years. I understand the cycle completely. Do you? Your posts don't seem to indicate that.

Don't put me into your "for all we know' statement. Even without my real life experience, anyone who has watched TiVo bring ANY product to market knows that they are not swift. I believe the Comcast TiVo, which was announced before the split of DTV and TiVo, is now almost 2 years late and it's almost 3 years from the announcement in March or 2005.

Sorry RS4, maybe I'm wrong about collaboration between the 2 companies, but you are not dealing in reality if you think it's months away.

I'd love it to happen, I'd buy(lease I guess) a box and work it over.


----------



## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

Billy66 said:


> How do I know it's baseless? Because there is no basis in fact for this conjecture. I don't have to show there is no basis for it, you have to show that there is one.
> 
> I do have knowledge of the programming and engineering required to bring a product to market as new product development was my job for over 10 years. I understand the cycle completely. Do you? Your posts don't seem to indicate that.
> 
> ...


Billy, there is a basis for it. Both DirecTV and Tivo have publicly stated they are exploring the opportunities.

There are a couple of points about the development time - 1. it could be possible that they have signed non-disclosures and are developing the product as we speak. 2. Tivo came out with the Tivo HD several months earlier then they originally announced. We don't really know what the platform would be for a DTivo upgrade product, so it could just as easily be several months instead of years.


----------



## Billy66 (Dec 15, 2003)

I like your optimism RS4, I just don't share it. 

If it happens, I'll get one of the first ones to be sure.


----------



## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> Billy, there is a basis for it. Both DirecTV and Tivo have publicly stated they are exploring the opportunities.
> 
> There are a couple of points about the development time - 1. it could be possible that they have signed non-disclosures and are developing the product as we speak. 2. Tivo came out with the Tivo HD several months earlier then they originally announced. We don't really know what the platform would be for a DTivo upgrade product, so it could just as easily be several months instead of years.


RS4 I wish you were a D* insider.


----------



## John T Smith (Jun 17, 2004)

As said in a computer forum I read...

"Anyone who talks about new products... doesn't know"

"Anyone who knows... isn't allowed to talk"

Anyone may speculate here... but that is all it is, speculation

When an official news release comes out from either DirecTV or Tivo, announcing a SPECIFIC product, not just a "we're looking at things" type of message, is when I will start looking at the Visa balance to see if I can buy one... not before


----------



## juliana541 (Oct 19, 2005)

Billy66 said:


> I like your optimism RS4, I just don't share it.
> 
> If it happens, I'll get one of the first ones to be sure.


I will given you $500 for your place in line. I have 15,000 and am going to buy 100 of them 

Edit: OOPPS I forgot the


----------



## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

BlackBetty said:


> RS4 I wish you were a D* insider.


Yeah, I do too. Maybe then I could get them to listen to me.


----------



## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

RS4 said:


> Billy, there is a basis for it. Both DirecTV and Tivo have publicly stated they are exploring the opportunities.


Actually only Directv has said they were looking forward to future opportunites to work with Tivo. The CEO of Tivo said he didn't know what they were talking about because there were no active discussions taking place.


----------



## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> Actually only Directv has said they were looking forward to future opportunites to work with Tivo. The CEO of Tivo said he didn't know what they were talking about because there were no active discussions taking place.


In the last quarterly financial talk (I can't find the link right now) Rodgers seemed to be neutral to me. He said that DirecTV had made statements. He didn't say they were not talking and he didn't say they were talking to DirecTV.


----------

