# Setting up MoCA



## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

I have what seems like a pretty straightforward situation: Bolt with tuning adapter, Mini, and ethernet in a third room. But I haven't been able to get it to work yet.

So far, the TiVo mini connected to MoCA and updated itself, but the Bolt did not connect properly to MoCA. Several reboots and retries later, the Bolt had MoCA, but the Mini did not. (Now, neither connects.)

There doesn't seem to be much troubleshooting help available, but I ran across this: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Installation_Setup_Configuration/MoCA-Networking-Help#useadapter
In "Use a TiVo Bridge to create a MoCA network", it shows a connection from the modem to the router's ethernet out, and from the bridge to the router's internet in. That's totally backwards, right?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yes, that's definitely backwards! Which way do you have it setup?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Yes, this is an awful drawing. But only one of several erroneous diagrams on that woeful page. So, correct, the modem should obviously be connected to the WAN port on the router, and the MoCA adapter to any open LAN port on the router.
*BAD DIAGRAM !!!*


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Can you describe how your tuning adapter and BOLT are connected to each other, and to your coax lines? And how your various rooms connect to each other?

Do you have a MoCA filter at your cable provider's point-of-entry (PoE) -- usually placed on the input of the first splitter or distribution amp in an outside junction box?

Do you have any amplifiers? And are your splitters all MoCA-compliant?

Oh, and what option did you select when configuring your BOLT for MoCA, "Connect using MoCA" or "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network"?


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> Yes, that's definitely backwards! Which way do you have it setup?


The right way (modem to router in, router out to Bridge).  I tried doing it backwards for the heck of it last night.


krkaufman said:


> Can you describe how your tuning adapter and BOLT are connected to each other, and to your coax lines? And how your various rooms connect to each other?


The coax comes into the house into a powered 9-way splitter, which then goes to each of the rooms.

For the Bolt, the coax goes from the wall to the tuning adapter to the Bolt. And then there is a USB that goes from the Bolt to the adapter.

I saw the picture for the Roamio with tuning adapter doesn't have the coax go through the tuning adapter. Instead it is split and then goes separately to the adapter and the Roamio, with no coax between the two devices. Is that the right way to wire it? I'll have to get another splitter then.



> Do you have a MoCA filter at your cable provider's point-of-entry (PoE) -- usually placed on the input of the first splitter or distribution amp in an outside junction box?


No MoCA filter at this point. In my reading before buying the Bridge, I had only seen things about it being required if you had an OTA antenna. Yesterday when I read the linked page above was the first I had seen a recommendation for all installations. Do most people do this?


> Do you have any amplifiers? And are your splitters all MoCA-compliant?


I only have two splitters AFAIK - a powered 9-way where coax enters the house, and the 2-way that I put in at the Bridge. I'll have to see if I can find specs for them.


> Oh, and what option did you select when configuring your BOLT for MoCA, "Connect using MoCA" or "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network"?


Connect using MoCA. "Create a MoCA" doesn't go anywhere because the bolt doesn't have internet.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

> For the Bolt, the coax goes from the wall to the tuning adapter to the Bolt. And then there is a USB that goes from the Bolt to the adapter.


Direct USB connection between the BOLT and its tuning adapter is correct; however, your MoCA problem with the BOLT likely lies with your connecting the BOLT off the tuning adapter's TV/RF Out port -- as the tuning adapter doesn't pass MoCA signals through that port.

You'll want to connect your tuning adapter and BOLT separately to your coax line, using a MoCA-compatible 2-way splitter -- and you'll also want to install a MoCA filter on the input to the tuning adapter to protect if from signal interference. (See here for more on the interference issue, and note that this MoCA filter is distinct from the MoCA filter required at your cable PoE.)

See Step #5 in the *Cox Tuning Adapter Self-Install Instructions*, here, for a good diagram showing how to connect a TiVo and tuning adapter in a MoCA environment. And, yes, this connection setup applies to non-Cox tuning adapter installs, as well.









> I saw the picture for the Roamio with tuning adapter doesn't have the coax go through the tuning adapter. Instead it is split and then goes separately to the adapter and the Roamio, with no coax between the two devices. Is that the right way to wire it? I'll have to get another splitter then.


Heh, yes, right. You appear to be on the right track. Get the TA & BOLT rewired with a MoCA-compatible splitter and you may be OK. (The next roadblock/speed-bump might be your amp, depending on whether or not it's MoCA-friendly.)



> No MoCA filter at this point. In my reading before buying the Bridge, I had only seen things about it being required if you had an OTA antenna.


You might have seen special warnings that the PoE MoCA filter needed to be rated at 70+dB for OTA antenna installs? But you'll still want a MoCA filter installed at your cable provider's point-of-entry(PoE) to your home. (see here for more information on the PoE MoCA filter)

The PoE MoCA filter isn't typically required to establish a MoCA network; however, it should be installed to keep neighbors' MoCA signals outside your coax lines, your MoCA signals inside your home, and to strengthen your MoCA signals, overall.



> Yesterday when I read the linked page above was the first I had seen a recommendation for all installations. Do most people do this?


Yes.



> I only have two splitters AFAIK - a powered 9-way where coax enters the house, and the 2-way that I put in at the Bridge. I'll have to see if I can find specs for them.


Rewiring the BOLT & TA are the priority, but you will want to review these components, as, even if MoCA begins working, you may be able to improve your MoCA connection quality and speed by updating them to MoCA-compatible versions.



SleepyBob said:


> The coax comes into the house into a powered 9-way splitter, which then goes to each of the rooms.


If/when you can, could you provide the brand & model number of that amp (or a pic of it)?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

SleepyBob said:


> ......The coax comes into the house into a powered 9-way splitter, which then goes to each of the rooms. For the Bolt, the coax goes from the wall to the tuning adapter to the Bolt. And then there is a USB that goes from the Bolt to the adapter. I saw the picture for the Roamio with tuning adapter doesn't have the coax go through the tuning adapter. Instead it is split and then goes separately to the adapter and the Roamio, with no coax between the two devices. Is that the right way to wire it? .........





krkaufman said:


> ........ If/when you can, could you provide the brand & model number of that amp (or a pic of it)?


Yes that was my thought too. That the powered splitter/amp wasn't able to pass moca. I agree krk, separate coax to bolt and TA first then check amp's capabilities.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

Okay, thanks. Are there particular specs I need in the POE filters (assuming no OTA)? These ones from Amazon are 4 times cheaper than the official TiVo ones.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

SleepyBob said:


> Okay, thanks. Are there particular specs I need in the POE filters (assuming no OTA)? These ones from Amazon are 4 times cheaper than the official TiVo ones.


Those should be fine.

edit: yikes


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

SleepyBob said:


> Okay, thanks. Are there particular specs I need in the POE filters (assuming no OTA)? These ones from Amazon are 4 times cheaper than the official TiVo ones.


Note that you can often get them much cheaper from your cable provider, as in free.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

Okay, so the splitter going to the Bridge is 5mhz-1675mhz. Is that high enough, or does it need to go over 2000mhz?

The 8-way splitter (this one) says 52-1002mhz forward gain 0.0db, 5-42mhz reverse gain 0.0db.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

SleepyBob said:


> Okay, so the splitter going to the Bridge is 5mhz-1675mhz. Is that high enough, or does it need to go over 2000mhz?


That should suffice, as it covers all the way through the MoCA 2.0 range (1675 MHz).



SleepyBob said:


> The 8-way splitter (this one) says 52-1002mhz forward gain 0.0db, 5-42mhz reverse gain 0.0db.


The amp shouldn't be your problem, as the same amp is working fine for another TCFer (see here).

Have you tried MoCA on the BOLT again, yet, with the tuning adapter rewired?


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

I have POE filters coming today and then hopefully I can spend some time messing around with this more over the weekend.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

Okay, maybe a little progress in troubleshooting, but not there yet.

I added a POE filter where the coax enters the house, before the 8-way splitter. I also removed the tuning adapter completely, to have one less thing to deal with.

Scenario 1:
Location A: cable modem, TiVo Bridge
Location B: TiVo Mini
Location C: TiVo Bolt
Result: Bolt cannot connect to network. Mini connects to MoCA, but can't find the Bolt to connect with, so can't do anything.

Scenario 2:
Move TiVo Bolt to Location D.
Result: Same

Scenario 3:
Location B: TiVo Mini
Location D: TiVo Bolt, cable modem, TiVo Bridge, connecting through Bridge, not Ethernet.
Result: Bolt connects to network, but now Mini cannot find network.

Next steps? I'm thinking maybe dropping from the powered splitter to a 4-way splitter with a wider range? I'm also going to see if the Mini will respond in Location B. Not sure what else it could be at this point.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dropping down to a splitter may help, but, first, you may want to review the following post, and especially the linked PDF, capturing a dialog w/ Extreme Broadband regarding the IPA1008D and MoCA...

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10939741

(Sorry for not posting this sooner. Totally forgot about it.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Dropping down to a splitter may help, but, first, you may want to review the following post, and especially the linked PDF, capturing a dialog w/ Extreme Broadband regarding the IPA1008D and MoCA...
> 
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10939741
> 
> (Sorry for not posting this sooner. Totally forgot about it.)


Reviewing that PDF, I'd try hanging your modem and TiVo Bridge off Output 1 of the amp, and your BOLT and Mini off Outputs 2 and 3 -- and see if that makes any difference.

Note that the VoIP/modem port would remain unused for MoCA installs, unless a dedicated telephone modem were to be connected.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

Success! Close enough, anyway.

I dropped down to a 4-way unpowered splitter with a wider mhz range at the entry. That didn't seem to help, though. The Bolt could connect to MoCA, but the Mini wouldn't. Then I would reboot the router, and the Mini would connect, but not the Bolt.

Last night, I was about at my wit's end and was going to test a straight ethernet connection from Bolt to Mini, thinking about having some custom wiring and be done with it. But before I even tested ethernet, I saw my Mini had a connection to the Bolt, and everything appeared to work!

In all my previous testing, I had been trying to get both boxes to connect via MoCA. This time, the Bolt was still getting its internet connection through wifi, but the Mini was communicating with the Bolt via MoCA, even though I didn't specify MoCA on the Bolt.

Is that how it is supposed to work? Because this scenario of operation never even occurred to me.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

You specify Moca on the Bolt only for the Bolt's own connection. It has no effect on the Mini. Who know why you could never get the Bolt's Moca connection to work. Could be the bridge was/is connected incorrectly or the Bolt connected/configured incorrectly. I don't remember if you also had a TA or POE filters, but those also have an effect on connectivity.

Wifi to the Bolt is still not the best long term plan. You should eventually get some sort of wired internet connection working for the best performance and reliability.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

mdavej said:


> You specify Moca on the Bolt only for the Bolt's own connection. It has no effect on the Mini. Who know why you could never get the Bolt's Moca connection to work. Could be the bridge was/is connected incorrectly or the Bolt connected/configured incorrectly. I don't remember if you also had a TA or POE filters, but those also have an effect on connectivity.
> 
> Wifi to the Bolt is still not the best long term plan. You should eventually get some sort of wired internet connection working for the best performance and reliability.


Thanks. I have POE filters, what is TA?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Tuning Adapter, which according to some of your earlier posts, is still connected wrong (no split before, no POE). You've left the TA out of your later posts for some reason.


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## SleepyBob (Sep 28, 2000)

mdavej said:


> Tuning Adapter, which according to some of your earlier posts, is still connected wrong (no split before, no POE). You've left the TA out of your later posts for some reason.


Okay, yes. I had removed it while troubleshooting so I had one less variable to deal with. It isn't actually working properly, either, but that's another story.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

SleepyBob said:


> Okay, yes. I had removed it while troubleshooting so I had one less variable to deal with. It isn't actually working properly, either, but that's another story.


Bob, 
Before reconnecting that TA, invest in another 2 way, and a MoCA filter. Put the filter on the leg of the 2 way feeding the TA and the other leg goes to feed your DVR. Hopefully that will keep the MoCA frequencies from messing with your TA and allow them to travel to and from your Tivos.


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## altuser (Aug 12, 2016)

You may already have this completely sorted out, but I noticed that you said you are trying to use a tivo bridge and a tivo bolt. When you have a tivo bolt, you do not need a bridge. The bolt is the bridge. you configure a moca bridge on the bolt and then the mini communicates to the bolt via moca and to the internet through the bolt via the built-in bridge.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

altuser said:


> You may already have this completely sorted out, but I noticed that you said you are trying to use a tivo bridge and a tivo bolt. When you have a tivo bolt, you do not need a bridge. The bolt is the bridge. you configure a moca bridge on the bolt and then the mini communicates to the bolt via moca and to the internet through the bolt via the built-in bridge.


While that's true, if your Bolt isn't located near your router you can use a TiVo Bridge to create the moca network and then just connect to the network created by the Bridge with the Bolt and Minis.


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