# Heroes 2-19-07 *Spoilers*



## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Just got done watching. Too much to talk about right now, so I'll just say Stan Lee as the bus driver was a nice touch.
I'll come back to this thread tomorrow, after I've watched this episode again.


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## smitjere (Oct 29, 2006)

Can anyone help me to know what happened at the end....the darn show ended late...Peter was beating up Isaac...and the time ended the recording. Any help would be appreciated.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Stan Lee: :up:

No more Ando: :down:

Isaac was just stupid for firing the gun blindly, and I just knew Simone was going to be the one to get hit. How will Peter and Isaac ever be able to trust each other now? Or will they realize that protecting life is so important that they'll be able to work together again?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

smitjere said:


> Can anyone help me to know what happened at the end....the darn show ended late...Peter was beating up Isaac...and the time ended the recording. Any help would be appreciated.


Isaac grabbed a gun he had hidden under a cloth on a table, and Peter went invisible, running around the room taunting Isaac. Isaac blindly fired the gun after he heard a noise behind him, fatally shooting Simone, who was caught by Peter as he became visible again. She died on the floor as Peter and Isaac hovered over her with looks of panic, shock, and fear on their faces.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I'm wondering what's going to happen to Claire now that HRG knows she has her memories and what he's been doing to her mother. 

Hiro finding his power again - very cool. Sending Ando home, not so sure on that one. There is some sense to Hiro going it alone so he doesn't have to worry about Ando getting hurt or killed, but the interplay between the two of them is one of the best parts of the show. I'll miss that.

I wonder how many people Syler is going to kill before Mohinder figures out who he is? It looks like Syler is having problems coping with his latest power.

Too many things to speculate about. What an episode! :up:


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

smitjere said:


> Can anyone help me to know what happened at the end....the darn show ended late...Peter was beating up Isaac...and the time ended the recording. Any help would be appreciated.


I won't bother replying since it's already been answered, but this was just like Lost last year. This time I was prepared, as I'd started recording the show that follows -- S60, in this case.

If anyone else is in the same boat, be careful as S60 is going away for a while (or longer) and another show will be playing after Heroes.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I saw all of the episode, and I didn't pad at all. It did cut out just as it was about to start showing the previews... but that's fine with me: whoever had the boneheaded idea to sell the previews to Microsoft so they could display them in their little "Vista windows" should be fired... then re-hired so he could be fired again.

Amazing episodep in the previews last week? I can't remember now. I guess she's en route to New York to pay a visit to Nathan. Strange how Nathan was warning Simone to not go public... and now I guess that's not a problem anymore :-/.

I'm not so sure this is the last we'll see of Ando. If it is I do agree it's a shame.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Ando isn't going home. Come on... that would be ridiculous. He's going to follow hiro on his own for a while.

I don't think sylar can kill another person... mohinder looked suspicious of him after the conversation they had before going to bed.

I enjoyed the parkman storyline quite a bit... a nice little twist. And the claire storyline has been building up really nicely.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Peter is becoming badass. No wonder he becomes the leader of the group in the future.  


BTW, I am kinda glad Simone was the one to go. She was an annoying character.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

laststarfighter said:


> Peter is becoming badass. No wonder he becomes the leader of the group in the future.


Haven't watched the episode yet.

DOES Peter become the group's leader? Don't recall future-Hiro telling him that.

Is this something just revealed in this latest one?


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Why did HRG need infra red when he had his power damping buddy with him?


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

nirisahn said:


> Hiro finding his power again - very cool.


 *We* now know Hiro still has his power, but he didn't even know he did it. And this was a new element: he *reversed * time.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I figured out how Claire can keep the Haitian's secret (that he didn't mind wipe her.) All it takes is one sentence: "Dad, I can heal. That includes brain injuries."


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

gastrof said:


> Haven't watched the episode yet.
> 
> DOES Peter become the group's leader? Don't recall future-Hiro telling him that.
> 
> Is this something just revealed in this latest one?


Meh, OK I did not remember the scene correctly. Thanks to Al Gore's invention  I was able to rewatch the scene and he says "be the one we need." Obviously not what I was recalling.

My bad, my bad. (BTW, I hate that phrase.  )


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

balboa dave said:


> *We* now know Hiro still has his power, but he didn't even know he did it. And this was a new element: he *reversed * time.


More than that. The bullet went back into the gun and the gun flew out of the woman's hand. So he can reverse time for an object while the rest of the world moves forward in time?


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

Gotta say-that was a great scene when Peter flew. Great visual effects for a TV show.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I love how cheesy easy some of the special effects are. Invisibility was represented by a door closing, and Peter's "force field" was just Claude holding the stick above his head, and the second time those two thingies attached to wire.

Great episode


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## bpurcell (Mar 16, 2005)

laststarfighter said:


> More than that. The bullet went back into the gun and the gun flew out of the woman's hand. So he can reverse time for an object while the rest of the world moves forward in time?


That's what I figured. He is now able to have "localized" time control. The gun and the female reversed in time while everything else was normal time. I'm still not sure why the gun then moved out of her hands.

Favorite scene: Stan Lee as bus driver...awesome!

Someone will fly: obvious even before the episode.

Someone will die: total surprise to me. I thought it would've been Claire's mom.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

It seemed to me by her reaction to the gun flying out of her hand that she shot the gun and the bullet flew back into the gun, sending it flying out of her hand. Let's wrap our minds around that type of time control. 

Let's start with the assumption that Hiro stopped the bullet with his power of time control. First he slowed down time all around him. With his "localized" control, he sent the bullet back in time so fast that the bullet had inertia back into the gun past the point of origin when all of time moved at regular speed again. How is this even possible with only control of time? Does Hiro have control of time _and space_?

BTW, anyone upset that Niki and her kin were not in this episode? Yeah, I didn't think so.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Hasn't Hiro always said he could bend time AND SPACE? How did he land in Times Square if he couldn't bend space, too?


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Forgot about that.


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## alansh (Jan 3, 2003)

And Hiro has reversed time before -- his very first act was to make his clock tick back one second.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

smitjere said:


> Can anyone help me to know what happened at the end....the darn show ended late...Peter was beating up Isaac...and the time ended the recording. Any help would be appreciated.


Somebody flew and somebody... dew-ed?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Aw, man. I liked looking at Simone.

This was the first episode where Hiro's plot line was the least interesting. There's no way Ando just goes home. Well, unless the actor has some other project to work on for a while. Plus, I think Ando is cooler than Hiro.


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## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Good episode. Might take a re-watch to digest. Some of the super powers are getting a bit wacky. Super-hearing? EM spectrum control? Though I guess if the EM spectrum control ranges up to gamma rays, that might be kinda cool.

Some random questions:

How did Claude turn invisible to Peter when he was leaving?

Since Peter has taken Sylar's telekinesis, does that mean he also has Sylar's other powers?

If HRG tags all of his catches, how did Claude get away?

And finally, how much did Nissan pay for all those product placement shoutouts for the Versa?


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## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

logic88 said:


> Good episode. Might take a re-watch to digest. Some of the super powers are getting a bit wacky. Super-hearing? EM spectrum control? Though I guess if the EM spectrum control ranges up to gamma rays, that might be kinda cool.
> 
> Some random questions:
> 
> ...


Well, Claude's tags looked badly scarred. I guess the intent on the writers' part was to make us think he removed the tracking device but, as we all know, it wasn't a tracking ]i]device[/i]. Then, again, perhaps 30 years earlier the tracking was done in a different way, so he actually was able to remove the tracker.

As to him turning invisible, that was just for us to show that he was planning on going back into hiding.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I was "interacting with" the nbc.com interactive content while the show was running (a bit too distracting for my taste). When the bullet went back into the gun the interactive stuff suggested it might have been caused by someone else, which would explain why the effect is different from Hiro's normal time-bending.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

pdhenry said:


> I was "interacting with" the nbc.com interactive content while the show was running (a bit too distracting for my taste). When the bullet went back into the gun the interactive stuff suggested it might have been caused by someone else, which would explain why the effect is different from Hiro's normal time-bending.


hmmm.
Is perhaps Endo required to be with Hiro for his power to work?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

If I see one more Black Donnellys commercial my head will explode. Goodbye, cruel world. I'm pretty sure there will be 63 of them during Heroes next week.

(And before someone posts the obligatory "I have TiVo, what are commercials?" comment, I watch Heroes live while TiVoing 24.)


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## amjustice (Mar 9, 2006)

Interesting new character with the wireless/internet powers (I know she has been in the graphic novels or whatever, I just watch the show though). You would think for someone with super powers she could come up with a better ScreenName then Wireless. 

Anyways...
Great episode, can't wait to see how much more of a badass Peter becomes and what happens with the HRG confrontation.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

While peter probably has all of sylar's powers, he probably needs to at least be aware of them since he said he has to remember how he was feeling when he witnessed the power.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

pretty amazing how quickly Peter is evolving. HRG almost seems afraid of Claire.


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> While peter probably has all of sylar's powers, he probably needs to at least be aware of them since he said he has to remember how he was feeling when he witnessed the power.


But if he has all of his powers then wouldn't he also have the ability to hear others powers(or whatever you call it) like Sylar does? That could be interesting.


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## waldingrl (Jan 19, 2005)

amjustice said:


> Interesting new character with the wireless/internet powers (I know she has been in the graphic novels or whatever, I just watch the show though). You would think for someone with super powers she could come up with a better ScreenName then Wireless.
> 
> Anyways...
> Great episode, can't wait to see how much more of a badass Peter becomes and what happens with the HRG confrontation.


FOr more interactive back-story go here: http://www.samantha48616e61.com/


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

drew2k said:


> No more Ando: :down:


I wouldn't bet on that...


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

so do Peter and Sylar have the same ability? to soak up other's powers? Peter's is just empathing in the way he can tap in to them?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

laststarfighter said:


> BTW, anyone upset that Niki and her kin were not in this episode? Yeah, I didn't think so.


Oh yeah, THAT'S why this episode was so good! 

Seriously, I don't miss that storyline at all. If they want to kill a high-profile character, please go ahead and off her.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> so do Peter and Sylar have the same ability? to soak up other's powers? Peter's is just empathing in the way he can tap in to them?


Not quite, Peter can absorb the power, Sylar has the ability to disassemble something (clock or human brain) and learn how it works, he can then teach himself how to do the same thing. That is why he has to open up the heads of his victims.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

Maybe I am guilible, but Simone's death came as a shock. I thought the show had wimped out on its "Someone Flies, Someone Dies" tag line and killed off a character we had never seen before (Dale). 

I feel that Simone's death will be important fact to both Issac & Peter. Somehow I don't see any kind of reconciliation at this point.


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## arcadefreaque (Aug 31, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> (And before someone posts the obligatory "I have TiVo, what are commercials?" comment, I watch Heroes live while TiVoing 24.)


What? You _only _have one DVR? Wow, I didn't think there were still people out there like that!

I do have to admit that we also typically watch Heroes live, because we can't wait for it to be recorded.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

RBlount said:


> I feel that Simone's death will be important fact to both Isaac & Peter. Somehow I don't see any kind of reconciliation at this point.


Given what was happening right before, it certainly has the potential to push Peter even further towards the Dark Side...and perhaps, by nature of his antipathy towards Peter, it will indirectly push Isaac towards the Light Side!


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> hmmm.
> Is perhaps Endo required to be with Hiro for his power to work?


No---way back in the beginning, Hiro went to NYC...and then went back to Japan by himself...


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

that's true. I had forgotten that.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Given what was happening right before, it certainly has the potential to push Peter even further towards the Dark Side...and perhaps, by nature of his antipathy towards Peter, it will indirectly push Isaac towards the Light Side!


I believe I mentioned Peter's turn in this direction last week...

I think this is definitely a pivotal moment. It hasn't happened yet. He can still let Simone go (something that Darth Anakin was unwilling to do) and forgive Isaac for this "accident". It's clear that Isaac didn't mean to shoot Simone but the mear fact that Isaac intended to kill Peter may result in irreconsilable differences between Peter and Isaac. This is also a change in behavior with HRG. He hasn't before advocated the killing of one of the "heroes". Not even Sylar.

I don't remember having the marks explained. Can someone fill me in?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

arcadefreaque said:


> I do have to admit that we also typically watch Heroes live, because we can't wait for it to be recorded.


Even the shows I watch "live", I wait about 15 minutes so I can speed thru the commercials.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Sirius Black said:


> I don't remember having the marks explained. Can someone fill me in?


They're from the gun that is used to inject the tracker stuff into the Heroes.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They're from the gun that is used to inject the tracker stuff into the Heroes.


Someone earlier in the thread speficially said they weren't a tracking mechanism.



wprager said:


> Well, Claude's tags looked badly scarred. I guess the intent on the writers' part was to make us think he removed the tracking device but, as we all know, it wasn't a tracking _device_. Then, again, perhaps 30 years earlier the tracking was done in a different way, so he actually was able to remove the tracker.


That's why I asked.

--Edit--

More thoughts.

Back when future Hiro visited Peter on the train and he asked him to be the hero we need him to be, there is no indication that Peter would in fact become that hero. Isn't it possible that Peter could save Claire and then through the natural course of events turn into an anti-hero? Of course, Hiro couldn't say too much without disrupting his own timeline so that would explain why Hiro couldn't give him a warning about other events in the future.

I am really hoping that just because Isaac can paint the future, it doesn't mean that that future will happen, despite how specific his painting becomes as time moves closer to the event in question. We know that events can be disrupted (as was the case with Claire but it seems like all the heroes are spread out across the country at this point.

Jessica/Nicki are completely detached from the plot and provide very little to the overall Hero storyline.

Nathan is unwilling to do anything to call attention to the fact that Peter is going to blow up the city because he's too busy being a typical politician.

Matt, NuclearMan, Claire, and InternetGirl busy with HRG's antics in Texas.

Sylar is detached from the New York storyline as well.

At this point, I don't see anyone capable of stopping Peter but Peter himself. We know it will be him, after all. Either him losing control or him getting angry but it will be him.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> They're from the gun that is used to inject the tracker stuff into the Heroes.


But we don't really have any confirmation that there *is* any tracking stuff.

Wireless girl told radioactive boy that it's a tracker, but why should we trust her?


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## Squeege96 (May 1, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> But we don't really have any confirmation that there *is* any tracking stuff.
> 
> Wireless girl told radioactive boy that it's a tracker, but why should we trust her?


Actually, Ted said that he had his blood tested, and that he has a "radioactive isotope" in his blood. That was the way that they were tracking him.

Great episode. I kind of wish that they separated the scenes with Peter using the full "potential" of his abilities over 2 episodes, (to give it a little more of a dramatic build up), but what a great payoff.

I am sooo glad that I gave this show a chance when it first came on. Its nice to have a show live up to the hype! It actually makes me look forward to Mondays. Tuesdays, not so much...


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## Squeege96 (May 1, 2006)

madscientist said:


> I saw all of the episode, and I didn't pad at all. It did cut out just as it was about to start showing the previews... but that's fine with me: whoever had the boneheaded idea to sell the previews to Microsoft so they could display them in their little "Vista windows" should be fired... then re-hired so he could be fired again.


Amen, Brother. I'll second that. Do you think that NBC paid MS additional money to make the "Vista Previews" as annoying as possible? Me thinks so...


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Has Isaac ever painted anything that hasn't come true? Yes, he showed a picture of a cheerleader with her head cut open, but that was Jackie, not Claire. Is there a way to avoid Isaac's visions, or are we only left with mis-interpretations of what was actually painted?


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## headroll (Jan 20, 2003)

Sirius Black said:


> Jessica/Nicki are completely detached from the plot and provide very little to the overall Hero storyline.


ok .. ok ... Am I crazy or was there a pivotal plot point thet DID NOT happen this week, but was in the next week (i.e. THIS WEEK) spoilers from LAST WEEK?



Spoiler



Jessica/Niki gets the assignment to kill Nathan Petrelli


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

The irony of the MS previews is that they demonstrate how poorly conceived the flip tabs are in Vista.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hey, if Heroes makes more money because of the previews (which are usually squeezed into a tiny box anyway), then more power to them!


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Given what was happening right before, it certainly has the potential to push Peter even further towards the Dark Side...and perhaps, by nature of his antipathy towards Peter, it will indirectly push Isaac towards the Light Side!


I agree that this episode really did show Peter going what could be perceived as a little "Vader"-ish, but I still don't like calling him a Dark Side guy. To me, Sylar is the Dark Side. Everyone else is in a hazy gray area right now. To continue the comparison, who would be the Light Side? And what makes them that?

HRG's side - wants to stop Peter, but is tagging the heroes with isotopes so they can follow them, and essentially treat them like diseases.

Mohinder's side - wants to find the truth of everything. Kind of your wide-eyed optimist.

Nikki/Sylar - Both just straight evil killers. Dark Side, in my opinion.

Parkman/Nukeman/new girl - They seem to have teamed up, but with the sole intention to figure out what the hell is going on with HRG.

Claire - Pretty innocent, wants to stop her father.

DL and son - who cares.

Hiro - Clearly wants to stop Peter like a real superhero, which tells me he doesn't plan on killing Peter.

Nathan - Unclear what the hell he's thinking.

Isaac - Seems to be working with HRG, but likely doesn't think HRG is such a bad guy.

I just don't see anyone on the list that falls into a Dark Side category other than Sylar and Nikki, and I dont think Peter is heading in that direction at all.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

headroll said:


> ok .. ok ... Am I crazy or was there a pivotal plot point thet DID NOT happen this week, but was in the next week (i.e. THIS WEEK) spoilers from LAST WEEK?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was that in the spoilers or just part of the regular show?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Peter was hardly a force of evil in the episode. He thought isaac betrayed him to dangerous people. He roughed him up a little and then toyed with him. If he were really all that evil he would have killed him pretty easily.


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## firerose818 (Jul 21, 2003)

No one has mentioned the line that was an apparent jab at LOST? At least, it felt that way to me. 

IIRC...it was something Peter said about not being sent to island in the middle of an ocean to be experimented on. 

Good episode. I really enjoyed no Nikki/Jessica.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Would it be better or worse if NBC was using the MS Vista "previews" on all their AAA shows (Studio 60, Las Vegas, ER, My Name is Earl, The Office, Scrubs, etc?)

I think it would better at least then it would be consistant. What does it say, however, about Microsoft not doing that on the other NBC shows? Is the audience that much different? They are all (for the most part) shows targeted at a similar demographic. Even if they weren't wouldn't MS benefit from all the audiences seeing the cool "new" features of Windows Vista?

For me, I'm with most people here, I don't like them.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Squeege96 said:


> Actually, Ted said that he had his blood tested, and that he has a "radioactive isotope" in his blood. That was the way that they were tracking him.


I'm with the cop---the fact that Radioactive Boy has a radioactive isotope in his blood doesn't really impress me.

It certainly doesn't make me any more likely to believe this new girl...


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## Gregor (Feb 18, 2002)

I saw Hiro's bullet incident as him developing telekinesis. Rather than reversing time, the bullet reversed back into the gun, which created the impact that knocked the gun from her hand.

I'm betting Ando stalks and rejoins Hiro at some future point.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Peter was hardly a force of evil in the episode. He thought isaac betrayed him to dangerous people. He roughed him up a little and then toyed with him. If he were really all that evil he would have killed him pretty easily.


I never said he was a force of evil. I said he was moving towards the Dark Side. I also never said that he was anywhere near getting there, or that he ever would (I think it's pretty obvious that he won't). But he is VERY CLEARLY moving in that direction, which should make for some interesting drama--what exactly will happen to make him pull back?


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

My take on Hiro/Ando...I think Ando is more important than we're giving him credit for. When Ando asked him if he used his powers and Hiro said he wasn't sure, he had his eyes closed and Ando said he did too, I thought to myself that maybe Ando was using some kind of power.

Oh, and did anyone notice Mohinder's room number. 23. Oh wait, wrong thread  (Or is it???) If anyone ends up on an Oceanic flight somewhere...beware.


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## swizzlest (Sep 13, 2003)

There was what I think was a pivotal moment in the Mohinder/Sylar storyline.....I think we're going to find out that Mohinder has some latent ability to sense Heroes (unfortunately, probably a little too akin to Xander of X-Men).

Sylar and Mohinder are talking, and Sylar is staring at him. Mohinder says something about how he can feel them out there. Sylar gets a quizzical look on his face and says something to the effect of "I can almost see them too". Maybe he's looking at Mohinder and figuring out he has this power? 

The whole scene seemed pretty "put in place" there to give us hints about something. 

But maybe I've been watching too much Lost.


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## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

balboa dave said:


> *We* now know Hiro still has his power, but he didn't even know he did it. And this was a new element: he *reversed * time.


Reversed time I am not sure is accurate..

I got the impression that he hopped forward in time a very short amount. Or possibly even stopped time in the general area until the police showed up.

n/m - it was a strange scene and I do vaguely remember the gun flying out of her hand. I guess I didn't see the bullet and didn't fully comprehend what was going on.

Other's posted the full details of scene  So ignore this post


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

since ando is a popular topic of discussion....

i saw him at the chinese new year parade in pasadena and got a pic with him. he says that things get better and better in the show... duh... nice guy.

in case you're interested...

and there's no way ando is not back soon. they've been separated before.

on another note, 

matt, ted, and wireless sure got from LA to Texas pretty fast. I know it's not realtime, but ted/wireless went from nevada to LA to Texas in one episode. seems a little off. and how do they get there? they would have to fly... do they let ted on a commercial plane? you would think he would set off SOME kind of sensor at an airport, what with him being radioactive and all, and there would be alot of sick people as a result.

just wondering.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

I'm liking the Parkman story line now. Teaming up with radioactive dude and wireless girl to confront HRG. Pretty sweet! Looks like it will really help move the story line forward.

Peter being able to control his powers is awesome. He IS turning into a bad ass. Just hope he doesn't turn *bad* like Sylar.


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## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

> Well, Claude's tags looked badly scarred. I guess the intent on the writers' part was to make us think he removed the tracking device but, as we all know, it wasn't a tracking device. Then, again, perhaps 30 years earlier the tracking was done in a different way, so he actually was able to remove the tracker.


This ties in nicely with my pet theory on HRG. We do not know everything about him, but we do know he has to track superpeople. 15 years ago, he came across somebody - an infant - whose body consistently rejects tracking devices. (For that matter, perhaps Claire's situation was what led Claude to rebel/disappear.) Her healing made her immune to HRG's normal tracking methods.

We know that HRG would not balk at assigning employees to track people when necessary, but you cannot track a child for a decade without raising serious suspicions. No devices, no goons -- how do you track an untrackable person? Simple -- you adopt them. As her father, he has a socially acceptable excuse to keep tabs on her 24/7, and, presumably, a way to obtain her trust, affection, and loyalty. We know Claire's real parents (Nathan, at least) thought she was dead, so at the very least HRG played a role in the cover-up; perhaps they even aided in setting up the "fatal" fire. Despite these origins, I have no doubts that HRG has since grown to love the girl he has raised as her daughter -- this mix of ruthlessness and emotion makes him a fascinating character.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I think the writers have done the Nikki/Jessica clan a big disservice by keeping them so disconnected from the other characters.

There's no way Peter turns Dark Side. If he does, it won't be for more than a couple of episodes and Claire will probably bring him back to the Light. Just speculation on my part.

The sequence where the agent and Ando's "girlfriend" were shooting at each other was just like a comic book.

I have a hard time believing that a man like HRG would have married such a dingbat.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> There's no way Peter turns Dark Side. If he does, it won't be for more than a couple of episodes and Claire will probably bring him back to the Light. Just speculation on my part.


That would work out pretty well, actually.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Two comments I made as the show was running. After Mohinder found Dales body I said, "well, somebody died". It didn't occur to me that somebody more central to the story would die as well. I certainly did not see Simone biting it.

When the previews were done I was wishing that I could see them full screen. Boy that was annoying.

In all this was just an amazing episode with a lot going on. I don't think it's going to take Mohinder very long to catch on to what Sylar is doing. All the flying bit with Peter and Claude needed was Claude talk-singing his way through "Can You Read My Mind?"


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I never said he was a force of evil. I said he was moving towards the Dark Side. I also never said that he was anywhere near getting there, or that he ever would (I think it's pretty obvious that he won't). But he is VERY CLEARLY moving in that direction, which should make for some interesting drama--what exactly will happen to make him pull back?


Meh... even bringing up the force / anakin analogy to me is kind of off. He's just a normal dude who is a little angry. If this show has demonstrated anything to me, it's that there is only one "bad guy", that's sylar, who is a psycopath / serial killer in a traditional sense; and everyone else is like a normal human, sometimes doing good stuff, sometimes bad. I don't think there's this big "who's good and who's bad" thing going on like most others seem to anymore. Going towards the dark side is kind of inaccurate to me, because he was just angry and/or frustrated, nothing more. Just like parkman stealing the diamonds doesn't suddenly make him "one of the bad guys"...

to quote zero effect... "there aren't good guys and bad guys... it's all just a bunch of guys"...


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## dimented (May 21, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> ...
> 
> I have a hard time believing that a man like HRG would have married such a dingbat.


I thought the same thing at first. But after thinking about it I came to the conclusion that she wasn't always a dignbat. She has had her memory wiped many, many times over the years I am betting. I would think that has what led to her current state of behavior.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jradford said:


> DL and son - who cares.


Made me LOL. It's funny because it's true. 

Someone mentioned the possible intentional reference to "Lost". But there was another show referenced too, if you will - the lady with super-hearing lived in Bozeman, Montana, where the president's brother in "Prison Break" lived, if I'm not mistaken.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> Meh... even bringing up the force / anakin analogy to me is kind of off. He's just a normal dude who is a little angry. If this show has demonstrated anything to me, it's that there is only one "bad guy", that's sylar, who is a psycopath / serial killer in a traditional sense; and everyone else is like a normal human, sometimes doing good stuff, sometimes bad. I don't think there's this big "who's good and who's bad" thing going on like most others seem to anymore. Going towards the dark side is kind of inaccurate to me, because he was just angry and/or frustrated, nothing more. Just like parkman stealing the diamonds doesn't suddenly make him "one of the bad guys"...


That doesn't explain the way he was portrayed in this episode...classic villain look.

I'll try to explain it again. All I'm saying is that he's moving towards the Dark Side. If you can't see that, given the visual look they gave him in this episode, then you must be in denial. And again, he's not going to get to the Dark Side. You're the one who's insisting on a Manichean black & white view. He's just moving into a greyer area, from which I'm sure he will pull back.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That doesn't explain the way he was portrayed in this episode...classic villain look.
> 
> I'll try to explain it again. All I'm saying is that he's moving towards the Dark Side. If you can't see that, given the visual look they gave him in this episode, then you must be in denial. And again, he's not going to get to the Dark Side. You're the one who's insisting on a Manichean black & white view. He's just moving into a greyer area, from which I'm sure he will pull back.


I agree, with all the comic book style this show has, it's too much of a coincidence that he just happened to assume classic "good guy turning bad" poses all through the episode... it could just be that they want to emphasize the emergence of a more "bad ass" side though, and not necessarily an evil side, I suppose.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Well, one thing is certain... If events continue to unfold as they are going _something_ causes Peter to go nuclear. While I like the idea of him going bad and having Claire bring him back (he is family after all), I'm more interested in exploring a more complex bad guy than Psychopath Psylar. It's what makes Magneto such a compelling character.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> That doesn't explain the way he was portrayed in this episode...classic villain look.
> 
> I'll try to explain it again. All I'm saying is that he's moving towards the Dark Side. If you can't see that, given the visual look they gave him in this episode, then you must be in denial. And again, he's not going to get to the Dark Side. You're the one who's insisting on a Manichean black & white view. He's just moving into a greyer area, from which I'm sure he will pull back.


What look? You mean the same trenchcoat he's always had, and the same basic look he's always had in the paintings? Or you mean the literal look on his face?

All I'm saying is that there's no "moving toward the dark side". There's no dark side. Classic villan look would be more like sylar with his huge shadow in the comic book portrayals or angry claw mom.

And as for the poses, they also would be "I'm angry and I'm going to do bad stuff to you" looks.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

What bugs me about the Vista previews is that they are showing the flipping windows as if it's breakthrough technology only available in Vista.


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## laststarfighter (Feb 27, 2006)

Fassade said:


> This ties in nicely with my pet theory on HRG. We do not know everything about him, but we do know he has to track superpeople. 15 years ago, he came across somebody - an infant - whose body consistently rejects tracking devices.


Stop reminding me she's underage.  Besides, it was *17* years ago. She'll be 18 in like 6 months.


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## pantherman007 (Jan 4, 2003)

I'm surprised to see everyone writing off Simone so fast. Claire cured Peter by osmosis before, and he should be able to do the same for Simone if he remembers and tries. Her death and resurrection could be the vehicle to put Peter and Isaac back to the same team.

The "someone dies" could be just the Bionic Ear lady..


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

Why does HRG even need to plant tracking devices/isotopes? All he needs to do is look at the Human Genome Map, and he'll know exactly where everybody is.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

pantherman007 said:


> Claire cured Peter by osmosis before, and he should be able to do the same for Simone if he remembers and tries.


Did Claire cure Peter, or did Claire just TRY to cure Peter, but Peter's absorption of Claire's powers cured Peter?


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> Why does HRG even need to plant tracking devices/isotopes? All he needs to do is look at the Human Genome Map, and he'll know exactly where everybody is.




They DID seem to try and explain that a bit this time though - Mohinder told the super-hearing lady something about that she had been part of a project and left blood, and that it was information from that project that he used to track her down.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Claire did not heal peter. He healed himself. There was debate at the time about whether he had residual memory of healing himself because he didn't seem to be physically close enough. Which has since been answered now that we know he retains the powers.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

pantherman007 said:


> I'm surprised to see everyone writing off Simone so fast. Claire cured Peter by osmosis before, and he should be able to do the same for Simone if he remembers and tries. Her death and resurrection could be the vehicle to put Peter and Isaac back to the same team.
> 
> The "someone dies" could be just the Bionic Ear lady..


I actually thought it was going to be Isaac. Maybe it's too soon. Didn't Hiro find Isaac frozen with his skull ripped open in the rapidly approaching "future," way back in either the pilot or episode 2? Then again, I guess I'm not sure if that was Isaac - just someone in Isaac's studio...


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## Martyp (Jan 6, 2004)

Well we missed the preview here, Can someone say what it was?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

It was isaac who had his head ripped open, by sylar it is implied, and hiro finds him shortly before someone goes nuclear.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

laststarfighter said:


> Stop reminding me she's underage.  Besides, it was *17* years ago. She'll be 18 in like 6 months.


You must be confusing her with some Hayden girl. According to her myspace profile,
http://www.myspace.com/clairebennet
Claire Bennet is 18 yrs old. Of course, people have been known to lie on their profiles...


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

alpacaboy said:



> Claire Bennet is 18 yrs old. Of course, people have been known to lie on their profiles...


I'm thinking her profile could use some updating. It lists her Dad as her hero and claims she doesn't have time for much of anything because of cheerleading.


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Sirius Black said:


> I'm thinking her profile could use some updating. It lists her Dad as her hero and claims she doesn't have time for much of anything because of cheerleading.


Yeah, I mean these days, it seems like she's more interested in manatees than cheerleading... I guess she's too wrapped up in "research" to deal with myspace...

Switching topics...
Has there been anything so far that has said Peter goes nuclear? I thought at first, we all thought it would be the nuclear guy, but then Peter had some dreams where he became worried, as an audience, we know it's a possibility. But has there been anything definite (specific message from the future, painting showing the transition, ...) that points the finger at Peter?


----------



## Squeege96 (May 1, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> I'm with the cop---the fact that Radioactive Boy has a radioactive isotope in his blood doesn't really impress me.
> 
> It certainly doesn't make me any more likely to believe this new girl...


But couldn't the cop read his mind to make sure Ted was telling the truth?

Just sayin'...


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

I will not miss Simone (will anyone?) but I WILL miss Ando. 

Everyone seems to think that he will be back, but the actor has always been listed as a guest star, not a regular, right? 

I don't see how Peter could do anything to bring Simone back. She's never exhibited any potential powers, has she? I don't remember that. He can't "push" powers onto others, he can only "pull" powers from others to himself.


----------



## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Magnolia88 said:


> I will not miss Simone (will anyone?


The character? No. The actress? Yes. She was super hot.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Squeege96 said:


> But couldn't the cop read his mind to make sure Ted was telling the truth?


Actually, he should be trying to read Wireless Girl's mind...but still, that would only indicate whether or not *she believed* in the whole tracer thing, not whether or not it's true...


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

OK, Peter has been having premonitions about going nuclear, but wasn't Simone present in all those dreams? How does this change things?


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Meh... even bringing up the force / anakin analogy to me is kind of off. He's just a normal dude who is a little angry. If this show has demonstrated anything to me, it's that there is only one "bad guy", that's sylar, who is a psycopath / serial killer in a traditional sense; and everyone else is like a normal human, sometimes doing good stuff, sometimes bad. I don't think there's this big "who's good and who's bad" thing going on like most others seem to anymore. Going towards the dark side is kind of inaccurate to me, because he was just angry and/or frustrated, nothing more. Just like parkman stealing the diamonds doesn't suddenly make him "one of the bad guys"...
> 
> to quote zero effect... "there aren't good guys and bad guys... it's all just a bunch of guys"...


I agree entirely with this post. I guess my question is, "If you think Peter will go to the dark side, even if only for a little bit or even if you think he'll just get tempted, what is the dark side you are talking about?" He just seems pissed to me that a) something that could have helped prevent the explosion is no longer available, and b) I'm sure he'll be pretty pissed that Isaac shot Simone.

I do agree that they made Peter look a lot more powerful than even he expected, but it just didn't give me the feeling that he had inclinations of "I can use this for evil..."


----------



## murrays (Oct 19, 2004)

As for Peter going to the "dark side", why did Hiro come back in time to give a message to Peter? He wouldn't do that if he was evil. ie, he wouldn't come back in time to give Sylar a message, would he?

-murray


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Isaac's premonitions also indicated that peter was going to go nuclear. At least according to isaac's interpretation.

The whole thing is a little suspect still, though. Although I'm in the camp that thinks it is indeed peter, there is some strangeness to it because ted himself, even when not able to control his power, never went totally nuclear to the point that it would have destroyed several city blocks or more. So it would seem to me that peter wouldn't just be unable to control it for no reason.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

I would say they are giving peter an "evil vibe". They are definitely making him look darker, and more aggressive. But you could say the same thing about Batman, as well. I wouldn't call it Dark Side.


TAsunder said:


> Meh... even bringing up the force / anakin analogy to me is kind of off. He's just a normal dude who is a little angry. If this show has demonstrated anything to me, it's that there is only one "bad guy", that's sylar, who is a psycopath / serial killer in a traditional sense; and everyone else is like a normal human, sometimes doing good stuff, sometimes bad. I don't think there's this big "who's good and who's bad" thing going on like most others seem to anymore. Going towards the dark side is kind of inaccurate to me, because he was just angry and/or frustrated, nothing more.


OTOH, Anakin went down the path of the Dark Side BECAUSE he was angry and frustrated... and he let his anger cloud his vision. And i don't see anything wrong with the arguement that the writers are leading him down this same path, at least the beginnings of it.



TAsunder said:


> If this show has demonstrated anything to me, it's that there is only one "bad guy", that's sylar, who is a psycopath / serial killer in a traditional sense; and everyone else is like a normal human, sometimes doing good stuff, sometimes bad.


wouldn't you consider Niki a "bad guy"?? She's done nothing remotely "good".


murrays said:


> As for Peter going to the "dark side", why did Hiro come back in time to give a message to Peter? He wouldn't do that if he was evil. ie, he wouldn't come back in time to give Sylar a message, would he?


Why not? If he knew Peter had good in him, he could reach him before the crossroads and influence him towards good. He could do that to Sylar, as well. Try to tell him to be patient when Prof Suresh seemed to be blowing him off, which set him off towards evil. If that's what Hiro was doing, that is.

And one last comment... So Then claude is Yoda


----------



## amjustice (Mar 9, 2006)

Some thoughts on Hiros whole coming back thing to speak with Peter. I am now wondering if this was because Peter had gone down a wrong path in the future and Hiro wanted to right that further back. However maybe Peter is a strong leader in the future and told Hiro that he had to go back to point him in that direction in the first place. It will be interesting if we eventually get to the point in the show where Hiro goes back to meet Peter initially and what his motivations are for that meeting.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I think Linderman is a bad guy too...even though we haven't seen him yet.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

No, Anakin went down the dark side because episode 4 was written before episode 3. Nothing in episode 3 made sense to me, and his entire transformation was utterly preposterous as far as I am concerned.

Regardless, in the world of star wars, they spent plenty of time setting up the notion that there is a "dark side" and that it is tempting like some sort of narcotic. In heroes there has been no indication of this sort of notion. Perhaps I was interpreting the notion of peter going to the dark side a little too literally. I agree he is going through a "dark time" but when someone says "toward the dark side" to me that implies that there is point A which is good guy and point B which is bad guy or similar things, which works in star wars (theoretically anyway) but has not really been shown in heroes.

I don't consider niki a bad guy no. There is still hope of redemption, attempts to reform herself, etc. She is basically a more edgy hulk. Her character is meaningless if it is just to be seen as a similarly psychotic person we all wish dead like sylar. In that peter goes nuclear sort of way, I wish she died so she'd stop hurting people. But I think that her character is a lot more interesting. So far we've seen nothing in sylar that indicates remorse or any hope of rehabilitation.

Really, only hiro and claire have been almost entirely "moral" people so far. And maybe DL. I still find it ridiculous to assume HRG is a "bad guy", or Isaac for that matter.


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## Billyh1026 (May 21, 2006)

gastrof said:


> DOES Peter become the group's leader? Don't recall future-Hiro telling him that.


Peter = Neo basically. I think it wsould be a logcal conclusion that he'll be the leader. especially since he is, and always will be, the most powerful person of them all.


laststarfighter said:


> Does Hiro have control of time _and space_?


I'd think so...remember when Hiro made a subway late once? that's not stopping and starting only time. That's actually affecting both time and space...(I think).


TAsunder said:


> While peter probably has all of sylar's powers, he probably needs to at least be aware of them since he said he has to remember how he was feeling when he witnessed the power.


He didn't need it when he stopped Claude from wailing on him with that long ole mop handle and didn't know how he got the power at first.


dimented said:


> But if he has all of his powers then wouldn't he also have the ability to hear others powers(or whatever you call it) like Sylar does? That could be interesting.


Peter only has Sylar's power's up to the point where they fell off the school. and will aquire all of Sylar's power's next time they meet. Peter will always be more powerful than anyone. Whether or not he figure's out how to use them is another question.


Gunnyman said:


> so do Peter and Sylar have the same ability? to soak up other's powers? Peter's is just empathing in the way he can tap in to them?





RBlount said:


> Not quite, Peter can absorb the power, Sylar has the ability to disassemble something (clock or human brain) and learn how it works, he can then teach himself how to do the same thing. That is why he has to open up the heads of his victims.


From what I understand, Sylar incorporates the DNA of the people he kills into his own DNA. That's how Peter has the ability to rogue all of Sylar's power's.

One of the big question's to me is what role's do the pre-Peter/Nathan Petrelli generation's play in the whole scheme of things? If you'll remember, the mother seem's like a pretty cut & dry/ruthless person if need be. And, a family that wealthy and powerful doesn't get to be by being nice and siting on their laurels.

The entire Jessica/Nicki, DL, Micah clan can't be killed off soon enough...
I think Peter's drift's to the grey-side and someone/thing pull's him back. He's Neo after all...

Of course ALL of this could be wrong...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Billyh1026 said:


> He didn't need it when he stopped Claude from wailing on him with that long ole mop handle and didn't know how he got the power at first.


What do you mean? When the guy asked he knew exactly where he got it. He didn't seem unsure at all to me, in fact he didn't seem surprised that he did it either.



Billyh1026 said:


> Peter only has Sylar's power's up to the point where they fell off the school. and will aquire all of Sylar's power's next time they meet. Peter will always be more powerful than anyone. Whether or not he figure's out how to use them is another question.


Those powers include more than telekenesis though. At the least perfect memory, and whatever else some of his prior victims had. Do we know what any other victims had? He's killed a few at least.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

This is just a question:

Do we know that Sylar's ability to acquire powers by killing and doing something to the victims brains is actually a power?

I can't remember if it was explained that Dr. Shuresh just made a mistake when he told Sylar, "Sorry, you're not special," or if Sylar's ability, and how it developed, is somehow very different from the abilities of our other heroes?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Not explained directly that he made a mistake, but there have been indications since then that sylar's ability is "the ability to figure things out" (veronicamarspathy?). I think it still is up for debate whether his power requires actually looking at a brain or if that is simply a psychotic assumption on his part (similar to how peter seemed to have to be near someone with a power to manifest itself until recently).

His power is pretty similar to peter's. Slightly different in how he manifests it, but it is entirely possible that he does not need to kill either. I think it was hinted at in his resistence to eden's power. Kind of like he "figured it out" without killing her.


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## rgr (Feb 21, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> HRG almost seems afraid of Claire.


I think he's more afraid of what he might have to do to keep her quiet. If the Haitian mind voodoo doesn't work on her (as would be obvious by now) then he might have to imprison/harm/kill her to keep whatever operation he's in quiet. And he does love his little girl.

On another, potentially obscene topic: We now know that Claire is Peter's niece. The two seemed to get along _*very*_ well in the few minutes they've spent together. With Peter's girfriend dying, what are the chance of the two, ummm, hitting it off in the near future? And what might that level of in-breeding do to the powers of any offspring?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Uh oh.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

I want Peter to start bending time and space. After all, he was in the subway with Hiro, so picked up those abilities.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

rgr said:


> On another, potentially obscene topic: We now know that Claire is Peter's niece. The two seemed to get along _*very*_ well in the few minutes they've spent together. With Peter's girfriend dying, what are the chance of the two, ummm, hitting it off in the near future? And what might that level of in-breeding do to the powers of any offspring?


dude, she's in high school...

zero chance... how many high school chicks you hit on? when you know they're in high school, i mean.

powers of offspring? down syndrome man....


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

_Ewww._ C'mon, Peter is a grown man, a registered nurse who isn't just out of school -- he has to be pushing 30 if he isn't past it.

His interaction with Claire was nothing more than big-brotherly imho. I think she will be pleased to find out that he's actually her uncle, that she has a relative she can actually count on to be on her side.


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## dabesq (Feb 9, 2007)

I thought Sylar gained the new powers by eating the brains of his victims. (Maybe I am confused with Starship Troopers.)

Speaking of Sylar, doesn't it seem pretty short-sighted to kill the first new Hero that Mohinder leads him to? And for what -- super hearing? Surely he knew it would make Mohinder suspicious at best. Why not gather intelligence now and then eat/disassemble/??? the new heros at your leisure later?

And speaking of short-sighted strategies, did Ando's "girlfriend" really think that the best way to find a couple of suckers to do her bidding was to sit in a Vegas kitchen and hope they would walk by? She was really lucky Hiro and Ando happened to be coming through. (Maybe this should be in the discussion of last week's show.)


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

He cuts open the heads, sure. I'm not aware of any evidence that he eats their brains...


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## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

> He didn't need it when he stopped Claude from wailing on him with that long ole mop handle and didn't know how he got the power at first.


He regenerated when he remembered how Claire made him feel, or something to that extent. He may not have remembered Sylar, but was certainly feeling murderous (and Sylar-like) towards Claude at that point during the beat-down. Perhaps it is not the feeling towards any particular person, but the thought/feeling itself that grants him the ability. At this point in is "training," however, he needs to think of the person first in order to access the state of mind needed to unleash that power. I actually hope that is wrong, though -- it is a nice parallel to Sylar that his powers are tied to those around him; otherwise, he would grow well-nigh omnipotent.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

He remembered sylar, because right afterward he talked about sylar using telekenesis to throw stuff.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Fassade said:


> At this point in is "training," however, he needs to think of the person first in order to access the state of mind needed to unleash that power.


Nope. He used TK to stop Inviso-Guy's stick without remembering how he was able to do it...It's only afterwards that he remembered Sylar...


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

When Hiro first traveled to the future in NY, didn't he call home and talk to Ando in Tokyo? So if we're getting close to that time it makes sense that Ando would go home to be there to receive that call. (not that he's aware of that). 

I love the look on HRG's face when somebody displays powers--whether it's stopping him from what he wants to do or whatever, he just stands back and smiles in amazement. He's a fan of Heros.


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## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

> Nope. He used TK to stop Inviso-Guy's stick without remembering how he was able to do it...It's only afterwards that he remembered Sylar...


Actually, that is my entire point...he apparently *doesn't* need to think of the person to access the power, he only thought he did when he regenerated, because that was his first trigger. The whole experience/fight with Claude (and, later, with Isaac) perhaps has taught him better of that initial assumption.

(edit to clarify last sentence a bit)


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

uh, why can't peter just reverse time to save simone?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

vertigo235 said:


> uh, why can't peter just reverse time to save simone?


He hasn't seen Hiro for months,
so it might be a lot more difficult to remember how he "felt" when Hiro was there.

phox


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Kind of like he "forgot" when he frooze time when they tried to shoot him with the tazer? 

I know what you're thinking, he stopped it with telekenisis, but I'm pretty sure he frooze time.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

vertigo235 said:


> Kind of like he "forgot" when he frooze time when they tried to shoot him with the tazer?
> 
> I know what you're thinking, he stopped it with telekenisis, but I'm pretty sure he frooze time.


No, it was telekenisis.
He'd been in contact with Sylar more recently.

HRG knows about Sylar, and knows he has telekenisis, so it didn't phase him much.
He doesn't however know about Hiro, so time stoppage would have garnered a reaction.

phox


----------



## prometheus67 (Aug 13, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I love the look on HRG's face when somebody displays powers--whether it's stopping him from what he wants to do or whatever, he just stands back and smiles in amazement. He's a fan of Heros.


I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed before. Why DID he smile as Peter escaped him? That doesn't seem like a response he would have.

By the way, why do you all refer to him as HRG?


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

prometheus67 said:


> By the way, why do you all refer to him as HRG?


Mr. Bennet takes too long to type.

Closed Captioning always has him as H.R.G., good enough for me.

HRG = Horn Rimmed Glasses.

phox


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> He cuts open the heads, sure. I'm not aware of any evidence that he eats their brains...





Spoiler



One of the producers said in an interview that Syler eats the brains.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Squeege96 said:


> Actually, Ted said that he had his blood tested, and that he has a "radioactive isotope" in his blood. That was the way that they were tracking him.


(as Matt said)
but Ted's already radioactive! 



bruinfan said:


> wouldn't you consider Niki a "bad guy"?? She's done nothing remotely "good".


I would consider Niki a "good person".
Jessica, on the other hand.......

And I wasn't aware that there was a bus terminal in Primm, NV.


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## trainman (Jan 29, 2001)

JYoung said:


> And I wasn't aware that there was a bus terminal in Primm, NV.


I wasn't aware there was _anything_ in Primm, NV besides those couple of casinos right beside I-15.

(And one of the buses in the background was bound for Miami, no less!)


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

JYoung said:


> And I wasn't aware that there was a bus terminal in Primm, NV.


Sure there is ... It's right next to the gift shop that sells pink sound-proofed duffel bags. Pick one up the next time you're in Vegas and need to steal large quantities of annoying noisy plinky-plonky casino chips.


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

drew2k said:


> Isaac grabbed a gun he had hidden under a cloth on a table, and Peter went invisible, running around the room taunting Isaac. Isaac blindly fired the gun after he heard a noise behind him, fatally shooting Simone, who was caught by Peter as he became visible again. She died on the floor as Peter and Isaac hovered over her with looks of panic, shock, and fear on their faces.


Stooopid NBC!  Sanx for the recap.

In other threads all day today people kept saying how awesome this episode was. I couldn't wait to get home and watch it. What a big disappointment. Maybe it was all the hype.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

trainman said:


> I wasn't aware there was _anything_ in Primm, NV besides those couple of casinos right beside I-15.
> 
> (And one of the buses in the background was bound for Miami, no less!)


Well, Casino Hotels.
And there's also an Outlet center and a Tourism Center.

(And yes, I've spent the night in Primm.)


----------



## Postalemaniac (Jul 30, 2006)

They are emphasizing peter's leet powers and i think somehow he will heal Simone and she wont die, lol just a thought.


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

Claude said that Peter was what they had been trying to something, it was ether make, find or stop but somehow they knew that someone with Peter's abilities would pop up and they wanted that taken care of.

Why does linderman now want Nathan dead after giving him 4 mil? That means he is no longer in his pocket.

Clair is going to be Peter's redeaming point IMO.

Also Issac painted the nuke dude while high and randomly painting. He assumes its Peter but we don't really know. It does seem the dude is flying but that picture is different from the messy bomb picture that almost seems as if there is a man in it. Prehaps they are two diffrent scenes.


----------



## 115320 (Jul 7, 2005)

stellie93 said:


> When Hiro first traveled to the future in NY, didn't he call home and talk to Ando in Tokyo? So if we're getting close to that time it makes sense that Ando would go home to be there to receive that call. (not that he's aware of that).
> 
> I love the look on HRG's face when somebody displays powers--whether it's stopping him from what he wants to do or whatever, he just stands back and smiles in amazement. He's a fan of Heros.


i keep waiting for home to say "that's cool"


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

swizzlest said:


> There was what I think was a pivotal moment in the Mohinder/Sylar storyline.....I think we're going to find out that Mohinder has some latent ability to sense Heroes (unfortunately, probably a little too akin to Xander of X-Men).
> 
> Sylar and Mohinder are talking, and Sylar is staring at him. Mohinder says something about how he can feel them out there. Sylar gets a quizzical look on his face and says something to the effect of "I can almost see them too". Maybe he's looking at Mohinder and figuring out he has this power?
> 
> ...


I think the latter .

To me, the whole point of this scene (besides showing how creepy Sylar is) is to get Mohinder starting to be a little suspicious of him. Mohinder's look, to me, said something like "geez dude, you're a bit off your nut aren'tcha?" However Sylar seemed to smooth it over at the end. But I'll bet there are more situations like this and Mohinder gets more suspicious.


----------



## MassD (Sep 19, 2002)

There is obviously a little bit of Vader/Anakin going on with Peter... from the way he tooled up Picaso to the way he was filmed. Maybe Simone's death lets him see that he needs to be careful... who knows. _We can't assume that Peter will always be a good guy_... He may not be go all Manson, but he may not be the goodie-two-shoes he once was. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


----------



## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

phox_mulder said:


> No, it was telekenisis.
> He'd been in contact with Sylar more recently.
> 
> HRG knows about Sylar, and knows he has telekenisis, so it didn't phase him much.
> He doesn't however know about Hiro, so time stoppage would have garnered a reaction.


Had to be TK since the taser prongs fell to the ground. If he stopped time that wouldnt have happened.


----------



## wmm_16 (Jul 10, 2003)

He might have stopped time then used TK to drop them. At least that's the impression I got.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

JYoung said:


> Well, Casino Hotels.
> And there's also an Outlet center and a Tourism Center.
> 
> (And yes, I've spent the night in Primm.)


and a huge rollercoaster, and 36 holes of world class golf. several restaurants as well. it's become quite the attraction... an affordable alternative to vegas proper.



wmm_16 said:


> He might have stopped time then used TK to drop them. At least that's the impression I got.


reminds me of my little brother... just has to be right. funny.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

How can there be any doubt that he stopped time. He looked at the tazer tips as they hung in mid-air and you could see Bennett and the Haitian frozen in time. Either he used telekenis to stop them, or like what happened to Hiro, his time manipulation effected their intertia.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

balboa dave said:


> *We* now know Hiro still has his power, but he didn't even know he did it. And this was a new element: he *reversed * time.


I've always assumed that needing the sword to "focus" his powers was just an excuse he was telling himself because he lacked the discipline to use his power after losing the waitress.


wprager said:


> Well, Claude's tags looked badly scarred. I guess the intent on the writers' part was to make us think he removed the tracking device but, as we all know, it wasn't a tracking ]i]device[/i]. Then, again, perhaps 30 years earlier the tracking was done in a different way, so he actually was able to remove the tracker.
> 
> As to him turning invisible, that was just for us to show that he was planning on going back into hiding.


If it's a radioactive isotope, and not strong enough to kill the person, then it wouldn't last forever.


unicorngoddess said:


> Oh, and did anyone notice Mohinder's room number. 23. Oh wait, wrong thread  (Or is it???) If anyone ends up on an Oceanic flight somewhere...beware.


This was written by one of the former writer's of Lost, Jeph Loeb, who is also a very highly regarded comic book writer (by some people.)


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

bruinfan said:


> and a huge rollercoaster, and 36 holes of world class golf. several restaurants as well. it's become quite the attraction... an affordable alternative to vegas proper.


It's an awesome coaster too. IIRC, the steepest drop in the world or something like that.

I'm with whoever it was previously that said that Sylar was stupid to kill Dale right after meeting her. Now he's made Mohinder suspicious and it won't take long for Mohinder to figure it out if the second person they go visit also ends up that way. Wouldn't it have been smarter for him to just tag along and learn the identities and locations of everyone Mohinder had located and then go back on his own and take them out?

As for what happened with Hiro at the end, I didn't see it as him using TK or anything like that. I thought he simply reversed time enough for the bullet not to have been fired, then paused her long enough for the gun to be knocked out of her hand by the cops.


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

prometheus67 said:


> By the way, why do you all refer to him as HRG?


Because my TiVo calls him HRG! I was very surprised to see him called HRG in the episode info, but there it was.

Apparently it's even in the scripts and the writers and cast call him that too, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why don't they just call him Mr. Bennet?


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Magnolia88 said:


> Because my TiVo calls him HRG! I was very surprised to see him called HRG in the episode info, but there it was.
> 
> Apparently it's even in the scripts and the writers and cast call him that too, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why don't they just call him Mr. Bennet?


Because at the beginning of the show he was portrayed as a mysterious shadow figure whose name we didn't know. He was compared to Cigarette Smoking Man (CSM) from The X-Files. We now know his last name (at least the name he uses in his daily life) but we still don't know his first name and don't know anything about why he does what he does or who he's doing it for. I think it's kind of cool to have a character with that name, and adds to the comic-book feel.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

NoThru22 said:


> How can there be any doubt that he stopped time. He looked at the tazer tips as they hung in mid-air and you could see Bennett and the Haitian frozen in time. Either he used telekenis to stop them, or like what happened to Hiro, his time manipulation effected their intertia.


Agreed. Haitian guy and HRG seemed to be frozen to me.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

According to the official recap, he froze time.

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/episodes/season1/116/unexpected_09.shtml#recap


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

rgr said:


> On another, potentially obscene topic: We now know that Claire is Peter's niece. The two seemed to get along _*very*_ well in the few minutes they've spent together. With Peter's girfriend dying, what are the chance of the two, ummm, hitting it off in the near future? And what might that level of in-breeding do to the powers of any offspring?


Please let's not open this one again.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

NoThru22 said:


> How can there be any doubt that he stopped time. He looked at the tazer tips as they hung in mid-air and you could see Bennett and the Haitian frozen in time. Either he used telekenis to stop them, or like what happened to Hiro, his time manipulation effected their intertia.


Or maybe bennett and haitian were just standing there for those 3 seconds?

hiro's time bending never affected inertia. at least up until the reversal of the bullets. but that has been argued as selective time/space bending, a new facet of his power. otherwise, he stops time, everything stops, when he starts it up again, everything resumes at normal speed.

i'm guessing the first time peter uses his Hiro power, it will be to freeze time, and it will be very obvious to us he's obtained Hiro's power.



devdogaz said:


> I'm with whoever it was previously that said that Sylar was stupid to kill Dale right after meeting her. Now he's made Mohinder suspicious and it won't take long for Mohinder to figure it out if the second person they go visit also ends up that way. Wouldn't it have been smarter for him to just tag along and learn the identities and locations of everyone Mohinder had located and then go back on his own and take them out?


He's become pathological... like those dateline predators... they know dateline is out there, but they do it anyways cuz they can't control the urge...


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

ping said:


> According to the official recap, he froze time.
> 
> http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/episodes/season1/116/unexpected_09.shtml#recap


like i said, he froze time


----------



## Mr. Soze (Nov 2, 2002)

I thought Mohinder was going to twig to Sylar when they were going into their hotel rooms. Sylar said something that was very reminiscent of, or a direct quote of Mohinder's father, about finding all the people on the list.


----------



## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

Why didn't Peter fly her to the hospital?


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I also got the impression that Peter stopped the tasers by stopping (or slowing down) time. They kind of slowed to a stop, not like when we saw him earlier stop the broom stick with his mind and you see the sudden stop as the stick gets bent back. Also, in the mean time, you don't see HRG or the Hatian do anything else or say anything. They also appear to be stopped in time. It's not until Peter dropps the tasers that HRG and The Hatian appear to restart and realize what happened.


----------



## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Not explained directly that he made a mistake, but there have been indications since then that sylar's ability is "the ability to figure things out" (veronicamarspathy?). I think it still is up for debate whether his power requires actually looking at a brain or if that is simply a psychotic assumption on his part (similar to how peter seemed to have to be near someone with a power to manifest itself until recently).
> 
> His power is pretty similar to peter's. Slightly different in how he manifests it, but it is entirely possible that he does not need to kill either. I think it was hinted at in his resistence to eden's power. Kind of like he "figured it out" without killing her.


It seems apparently to me that he doesn't have to cut there head up and remove the brain.

In the episode with Zane Taylor we see his head still on and Sylar was using his powers.

I think Sylar enjoys keeping the same M.O. so people know it's him who's killing these people. Just like he seemed to enjoy playing the game with Mohinder when he was talkinga bout himself and the murder of Mohinders Father.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

glumlord said:


> It seems apparently to me that he doesn't have to cut there head up and remove the brain.
> 
> In the episode with Zane Taylor we see his head still on and Sylar was using his powers.


Not really. We don't know what's going on under what appears to be a tarp:

http://heroeswiki.com/Image:Zane_pwned.jpg

I'm imagining the same thing we've seen happen to all of Sylar's other victims.


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

If Sylar has to use his telekinesis to remove people's heads to get at their brains, how did he get his power from that first guy?


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> If Sylar has to use his telekinesis to remove people's heads to get at their brains, how did he get his power from that first guy?


He doesn't have to use telekinesis, but I imagine it's less messy.

By the way, ask yourself why Sylar doesn't have the power of suggestion (or at least we've never seen evidence of that). It's because Eden shot herself in the head.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

On the other hand, they still haven't shown us any evidence to explain why eden's power didn't work on him in that scene where she ended up shooting herself.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> On the other hand, they still haven't shown us any evidence to explain why eden's power didn't work on him in that scene where she ended up shooting herself.


She never had the chance. She suggests to him that he's going to use her gun to kill himself, but before she can give him her gun, he uses telekinesis to pull her through the glass. He grabs her by the throat (which prevented additional attempts at suggestion).


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't think her power ever worked that way... with her saying what he would do later if he got the gun.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> I don't think her power ever worked that way... with her saying what he would do later if he got the gun.


True, that. A bit of a sloppy dramatic device to prevent killing the star villain. Sometimes a writer gets in trouble and needs the reset button. This one wasn't too bad.


----------



## arcadefreaque (Aug 31, 2006)

question about the latest email:


Spoiler



Does the latest email confirm that HRG works for Linderman? I got the "Corithian Casino & Hotel" email from the Linderman group. At the bottom of the email, it says I can opt out via the primatech paper address. It would seem like the two companies are definitely tied together somehow 

If this isn't true, then it is definitely sloppy use of their emails.


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Because at the beginning of the show he was portrayed as a mysterious shadow figure whose name we didn't know. He was compared to Cigarette Smoking Man (CSM) from The X-Files. We now know his last name (at least the name he uses in his daily life) but we still don't know his first name and don't know anything about why he does what he does or who he's doing it for. I think it's kind of cool to have a character with that name, and adds to the comic-book feel.


Ah, okay, that explanation helps.

I saw the first several episodes in a marathon, so the chronology of events is a little fuzzy to me. I only think of him as Claire's dad and I forget how shadowy he was at the beginning, with no name and all.

I really don't like the "Haitian" being called the "Haitian" though. I wish they'd come up with a better nickname for him. I'd like HRG to call him by some weird mysterious name or something, like how Sylar is just Sylar.

Why can't he be called "the Eraser" or something like that? "The Haitian" seems borderline racist, as if there is nothing else important about him except his ethnicity.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

arcadefreaque said:


> question about the latest email:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Probably just laziness on the part of the web people.


----------



## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

removed due to smeek


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## Ruth (Jul 31, 2001)

Did Claire and Parkman ever meet before? I can't remember that happening, but it sure looked like she recognized him when he burst into the house with his new buddies. Seemed like a significant little moment. I can't wait to see where that storyline goes next week.

The plotting on this show is GREAT. In particular I love how, all of a sudden, the Parkman storyline is front and center and connected with the other heroes. For a long time he seemed on the edges of the story without much of a connection and now, bam! He's in the middle of everything and poised to unlock some of the mysteries. I can only assume there will be a similar moment for Niki, although I'd be just as happy never to see her again. It was so nice to have a Niki-free episode! 

Any thoeries on how Claire's mom got her memory back all of a sudden right after the scene where she doesn't recognize Claire or the dog? Does it just come and go?


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Ruth said:


> Did Claire and Parkman ever meet before?


Yes. Matt and Audrey questioned her after the death of the other cheerleader. Actually, it may have been Audrey questioning her with Matt in another room trying to read her mind (which he couldn't). That would explain why he recognized her but not the other way around.


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Ruth said:


> Any thoeries on how Claire's mom got her memory back all of a sudden right after the scene where she doesn't recognize Claire or the dog? Does it just come and go?


I'm just guessing here, but it seems like she's been through the memory-eraser one too many times and a few neurons aren't firing quite right as a result.

Her memory was never supposed to be erased so far back that she didn't recognize her own daughter (or Mr. Muggles), but that was like a "temporary blip" or something. That memory erasing is a tricky business. I think HRG has been getting carried away b/c he's going to do serious brain damage to his wife (if he hasn't already, which it looks like he has).


----------



## RickStrobel (Jan 19, 2000)

I predict that Simone is not gone. Here's why:

- Hiro can reverse time. Peter can freeze time. He could reverse time a few moments to prevent Isaac from shooting Simone.
- Peter has an intense emotional connection with her and will certainly call on ANY power that he has to save her (also consider that women have been known to lift cars off of their children).
- Peter's a nurse.
- Simone is not necessarily dead, she may have just passed out.
- She was in his dreams of exploding in NY in the future.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

RickStrobel said:


> Hiro can reverse time. Peter can freeze time. He could reverse time a few moments to prevent Isaac from shooting Simone.


If Hiro couldn't save Charlie, what makes you think that Peter could save Simone?


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Didn't they say claire's mom had a bruise on her brain in the memory storing section? Or was it a growth? If it were a bruise she might have been really disoriented for a while and then when the swelling went down, she was able to remember again.


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

phox_mulder said:


> He hasn't seen Hiro for *months*,
> so it might be a lot more difficult to remember how he "felt" when Hiro was there.
> 
> phox


Not that this would make any difference in your point, but this whole season has so far been less than or about a month in Heroes time IIRC. Hiro went 5 weeks into the future to see the New York explosion, and that hasn't happened yet, so it has definitely been less than "months" since he's seen Hiro.

I thought it would have been a nice touch for Isaac to have grazed Peter's jaw as he shot Simone, giving Peter the scar that Hiro mentioned in that scene where they met.

I think Simone is dead. It would be a bad cop-out for them to make the "someone dies" be the chick that Syler killed. He's killed plenty of people before and it hasn't made an NBC promo.

And I agree with what someone else said: it would have been smarter for Syler to wait to kill the mechanic lady, but at this point he has a compulsion that he can't control, no matter how smart it might be to wait.

Claire could tell her dad that the mind wipe didn't take because of her healing ability, but we don't know that she hasn't been mind wiped before. As clumsy as she is, she could have fallen in a wood chopper at some point, healed, and HRG had her mind wiped so she wouldn't remember. Just because the Haitian didn't do it this time doesn't mean he hasn't done it before. If that were the case, HRG would know she was lying.


----------



## logic88 (Jun 7, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> If Hiro couldn't save Charlie, what makes you think that Peter could save Simone?


Didn't Charlie die of a tumor? Saving someone from a bullet seems easier than saving someone from a tumor.


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

Charlie died of a tumor? Why do I remember her being found in the diner, covered with blood? Was I dreaming?


----------



## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

RickStrobel said:


> I predict that Simone is not gone. Here's why:
> 
> - Hiro can reverse time. Peter can freeze time. He could reverse time a few moments to prevent Isaac from shooting Simone.
> - Peter has an intense emotional connection with her and will certainly call on ANY power that he has to save her (also consider that women have been known to lift cars off of their children).
> ...


All that is great, but Simone is still dead.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:



> Charlie died of a tumor? Why do I remember her being found in the diner, covered with blood? Was I dreaming?


She was killed by Sylar (what you remember). Hiro went back in time to prevent that, which he did, but then found out she was terminally ill.

Interesting, though, is that we appear to be in the original timeline, at least with the companion Graphic Novels, since Sylar has Charlie's learning ability.


----------



## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

ping said:


> Interesting, though, is that we appear to be in the original timeline, at least with the companion Graphic Novels, since Sylar has Charlie's learning ability.


Where do we see signs of Charlie's "learning" ability? I know he has to have it, but his ability to figure out peoples powers by chopping up their brains is a different ability than Charlies comprehension power, right?


----------



## jking (Mar 23, 2005)

ping said:


> She was killed by Sylar (what you remember). Hiro went back in time to prevent that, which he did, but then found out she was terminally ill.
> 
> Interesting, though, is that we appear to be in the original timeline, at least with the companion Graphic Novels, since Sylar has Charlie's learning ability.


I didn't think he managed to change the fact that she was killed by Syler. He found out she was terminally ill, but that didn't change anything. I always assumed she was still killed by Syler.


----------



## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

ping said:


> She was killed by Sylar (what you remember). Hiro went back in time to prevent that, which he did, but then found out she was terminally ill.


Ah, I forgot about that. I think I missed an episode somewhere around there, so I may be forgetting a few key plot points here and there.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

After rewatching it occured to me that the doctor caring for Claire's mom has some of the worst worth ethics EVER. First she tells Claire that she can tell her anything and that anything she does say will be held in the strictist of confidence. Then she runs off and tells Claire's dad what she said. If this was really a case of some form of abuse, that's not the way to go about it. Great work there, Doc.


----------



## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

RickStrobel said:


> - She was in his dreams of exploding in NY in the future.


So was Isaac. According to the original timeline, at the instant the explosion occurs he's lying dead on the floor of his studio, with the top of his head cut off ... and with Hiro hovering over him.

Although, with Hiro's powers, being in two places at the same time is not a stretch.


----------



## ping (Oct 3, 2005)

jradford said:


> Where do we see signs of Charlie's "learning" ability? I know he has to have it, but his ability to figure out peoples powers by chopping up their brains is a different ability than Charlies comprehension power, right?


Well that's why I qualified the statement with "companion graphic novels". It's in one of those where it is explicitly stated that he has it. But I believe it's fairly well accepted that the graphic novels belong in the same Heroes universe as the TV show. At least I haven't seen anything yet that contradicts.


----------



## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

jradford said:


> Where do we see signs of Charlie's "learning" ability? I know he has to have it, but his ability to figure out peoples powers by chopping up their brains is a different ability than Charlies comprehension power, right?


I think you could reasonably assume "learning ability" from Sylar driving the 18 wheeler. There's been no indication that the former watch repairman knew how to drive a big rig, but after a few hours watching someone else that other power could kick in unconsciously.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Obviously Peter doesn't love Simone.


He was standing close enough to catch her body, he was obviously paying attention to Isaac. Yet he doesn't stop the bullets, or get in the way, or put something else in the way.

Hmm... able to stop them when it's you being shot, eh tough guy? 








I too think Ando has a power. Hiro's power is still lost to him. While having a gun aimed at you would be enough to shock the power back, other dramatic events (getting punched, getting chased, seeing pops, etc.) didn't do it.




Ando is on the list. They're a dynamic duo.


----------



## Fassade (Apr 8, 2004)

> Where do we see signs of Charlie's "learning" ability? I know he has to have it, but his ability to figure out peoples powers by chopping up their brains is a different ability than Charlies comprehension power, right?


I do not think we have seen it in the show, but, in the online comics, Sylar uses Charlie's ability to learn how to operate an 18-wheeler after one look through the truck's manual.

(Spoilered in case comics details are supposed to be spoilerized)



Spoiler



The page where Sylar talks about adding Charlie's abilities begins with a picture of the truck manual, and ends with Sylar in the driver's seat, tossing the book casually away and thinking "soon after I killed her, I don't know, I just seem to be remembering things lately."


----------



## Billyh1026 (May 21, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> What do you mean? When the guy asked he knew exactly where he got it. He didn't seem unsure at all to me, in fact he didn't seem surprised that he did it either.
> 
> Those powers include more than telekenesis though. At the least perfect memory, and whatever else some of his prior victims had. Do we know what any other victims had? He's killed a few at least.


All I meant was that Peter hesitated for a second before saying that. As for the power's he got from Sylar, if I remember right, the only one's we know he had at the school were his ability to understand how things work, telekinesis, cryonics of some sort, and eidetic memory.



Fassade said:


> He regenerated when he remembered how Claire made him feel, or something to that extent. He may not have remembered Sylar, but was certainly feeling murderous (and Sylar-like) towards Claude at that point during the beat-down. Perhaps it is not the feeling towards any particular person, but the thought/feeling itself that grants him the ability. At this point in is "training," however, he needs to think of the person first in order to access the state of mind needed to unleash that power. I actually hope that is wrong, though -- it is a nice parallel to Sylar that his powers are tied to those around him; otherwise, he would grow well-nigh omnipotent.


My thinking is what you've just said. That Peter doesn't need to think of a person to invoke an ability. He just needs to think "stop beating me with that friggin stick" or whatever and it'll happen. I don't think he need's as much training as he thinks he does and will discover that REAL soon. Especially after he reflects back on stopping that pole by himself without thinking of anyone. And yep, he's well on his way to omnipotence.

I just hope they stop with the whole Neo-like stuff/look/etc they're doing with Peter. Then again, it seems almost unavoidable to some extent.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Billyh1026 said:


> My thinking is what you've just said. That Peter doesn't need to think of a person to invoke an ability. He just needs to think "stop beating me with that friggin stick" or whatever and it'll happen. I don't think he need's as much training as he thinks he does and will discover that REAL soon. Especially after he reflects back on stopping that pole by himself without thinking of anyone. And yep, he's well on his way to omnipotence.


I think he's a lot like Hiro...the more he thinks about it, the harder he tries, the less he can accomplish. But when he just goes on instinct, he can do it easily.

(And I think Hiro doesn't need the sword--he needs to "just do it".)


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

ping said:


> According to the official recap, he froze time.
> 
> http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/episodes/season1/116/unexpected_09.shtml#recap


ahem


----------



## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Magnolia88 said:


> Ah, okay, that explanation helps.
> 
> I saw the first several episodes in a marathon, so the chronology of events is a little fuzzy to me. I only think of him as Claire's dad and I forget how shadowy he was at the beginning, with no name and all.
> 
> ...


Wouldn't that be refering to the fact that he's from Haiti. Should I be offended when someone calls me an American?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> "The Haitian" seems borderline racist, as if there is nothing else important about him except his ethnicity.


He's not being called "the black guy"...


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

vertigo235 said:


> Wouldn't that be refering to the fact that he's from Haiti. Should I be offended when someone calls me an American?


What has this character said that has anything to do with Haiti? I'm just confused why that is his nickname. Does he ever speak?

All I know about him is that he appears to be mute and has the power to erase memories. Why isn't he called "The Mute"? Or "The Eraser"? I don't understand why his (supposed) ethnicity is the basis of his nickname. It elevates his ethnicity above every other quality he possesses.

And I _would_ be offended if someone referred to me as "The American," depending on the context, because I have a name and that isn't it. He's not referred to as being "Haitian," he's called The Haitian as if it were his name.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

ping said:


> Well that's why I qualified the statement with "companion graphic novels". It's in one of those where it is explicitly stated that he has it. But I believe it's fairly well accepted that the graphic novels belong in the same Heroes universe as the TV show. At least I haven't seen anything yet that contradicts.


For some reason, I totally glossed over the qualification. That makes sense.


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

Magnolia88 said:


> What has this character said that has anything to do with Haiti? I'm just confused why that is his nickname. Does he ever speak?
> 
> All I know about him is that he appears to be mute and has the power to erase memories. Why isn't he called "The Mute"? Or "The Eraser"? I don't understand why his (supposed) ethnicity is the basis of his nickname. It elevates his ethnicity above every other quality he possesses.
> 
> And I _would_ be offended if someone referred to me as "The American," depending on the context, because I have a name and that isn't it. He's not referred to as being "Haitian," he's called The Haitian as if it were his name.


Well, we know he's not mute.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> And I _would_ be offended if someone referred to me as "The American," depending on the context, because I have a name and that isn't it. He's not referred to as being "Haitian," he's called The Haitian as if it were his name.


We don't *know* his name.

What about HRG? Do you find that name offensive as well.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Didn't they say his name in this episode?


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

HRG doesn't refer to race or ethnicity, it refers to his choice of eyewear. (Unless I'm wrong and it really means Hulky Romanian Guy or something.)

I know that the Haitan guy doesn't have a name yet on the show, but HRG is descriptive without referring to race or ethnicity. And it's not only that The Haitian is the only one referred to by his ethnicity, but he has never said anything about being from Haiti, has he? Where did it come from? I'm wondering if this was explained in an episode I missed, but I find it baffling.

People call the radioactive guy Radioactive Guy and the girl who has some kind of computer in her brain Wireless Girl (or some other similar appellation), but this dude is called The Haitian and nobody finds it strange that he isn't referenced by his powers? I've seen many people bothered by this on other boards (and many claims that it's racist, so apparently a lot of people are put off by it), but I can't find any explanation. Apparently the writers even call him The Haitan. But why can't he be Mr. Clean or The Eraser or something like that? 

Geez, give him a name already. Everybody else gets a name, even HRG gets to be Mr. Bennet on the show.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Just like HRG, Closed Captioning had him named The Haitian the one and only time we've heard him speak,
when he spoke to Claire regarding the mind wipes and why he didn't wipe her.

Now that we know HRG as Mr. Bennet, CC still has him as H.R.G.


phox


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

Magnolia88 said:


> Geez, give him a name already. Everybody else gets a name, even HRG gets to be Mr. Bennet on the show.


No one remembers his name.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> I've seen many people bothered by this on other boards (and many claims that it's racist, so apparently a lot of people are put off by it),


That's because many people are crazy.

Why "racist"? What in the world makes anyone think this has anything to do with race?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

alpacaboy said:


> No one remembers his name.


  :up:


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

NoThru22 said:


> If Sylar has to use his telekinesis to remove people's heads to get at their brains, how did he get his power from that first guy?


I wonder if Syler's absorption of a someone's traits after removing that person's skull only works with people having enhanced DNA. For example, did his opening up the head of that cheerleader by mistake wind up making him more vapid and shallow?


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> And it's not only that The Haitian is the only one referred to by his ethnicity, but he has never said anything about being from Haiti, has he? Where did it come from? I'm wondering if this was explained in an episode I missed, but I find it baffling.


Eden referred to him as a Haitian.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Magnolia88 said:


> Geez, give him a name already. Everybody else gets a name, even HRG gets to be Mr. Bennet on the show.


Carribean-American?


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Magnolia88 said:


> People call the radioactive guy Radioactive Guy


This is offensive to people with cancer.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

bruinfan said:


> Carribean-American?


Who said he's American?


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## alpacaboy (Oct 29, 2004)

I think it might be too late to give him another nickname. If I started calling him "Wipe," or "The Cleaner," or something, I don't think people would know who/what I was talking about. And calling him something like oh... say... "Jimmy" just doesn't seem like it has the same impact.

Though now, I kind of like that. I may just start referring to him as "Jimmy."


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Mr Clean?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> Mr Clean?


Aren't you afraid of being called hair-ist?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

For some reason, that reminds me of the joke (which probably dates me): What's the hardest thing about having AIDS? Convincing your parents that you're Haitian.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

pdhenry said:


> Mr Clean?


That's what I've been calling him. But then my friend told me that the writers actually call him The Haitian, which makes no sense because he has never said word one about being from Haiti, afaik. I only remember Eden saying it, and I thought it was odd then, like why would she call him that? If she spent anytime with him at all, wouldn't she have come up with something better than that?

Anyway, since nobody has an answer for my question other than "that's what the CC calls him," I am voting to let this drop. But I stand by my sentiment that it's a dumb nickname when there are so many better options. _Mr. Clean! Eraserhead!_ Anything is better than The Haitian.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

If no one (other than Claire) has heard him speak how would they know he was Haitian?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

pdhenry said:


> If no one (other than Claire) has heard him speak how would they know he was Haitian?


The same way they knew HRG had horn-rimmed glasses.

They wrote him that way.


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## Billyh1026 (May 21, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> (And I think Hiro doesn't need the sword--he needs to "just do it".)


I agree Rob. I think the sword is going to end up being an audience fake-out cool looking prop.



TIVOSciolist said:


> I wonder if Syler's absorption of a someone's traits after removing that person's skull only works with people having enhanced DNA. For example, did his opening up the head of that cheerleader by mistake wind up making him more vapid and shallow?


That's actually a VERY good question! I would tend to think no. If that were the case he'd have those type trait's from all of his victim's. We don't know if he has those or not, but if he did I think his behavior would be seriously eratic. Beside that, I'm pretty sure he didn't incorporate her DNA into his.


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## Fraser+Dief (Nov 18, 2005)

Billyh1026 said:


> My thinking is what you've just said. That Peter doesn't need to think of a person to invoke an ability. He just needs to think "stop beating me with that friggin stick" or whatever and it'll happen.


Hasn't anyone learned anything in their life? This isn't complicated. 

At first, it takes conscious thought. "Ok, first I put the left shoelace over here, then I move this one over here..." Eventually, you stop thinking about it, and it's just instinct.


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## Hound (Sep 11, 2003)

Sylar gets excited to kill people. He fits the profile of an opertunistic serial killer quite well. They researched him. He kills people because its become part of what he is. Even with someone finding him out his need to kill them is greater then his self preservation. 

In the end, he will help bring his own downfall. He is spiraling out of control. Notice how his telekenisis is barely under control when he is excited. He is murdering them because he wants to at this point.


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## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

Is there a way for me to download old episodes and burn them on to a DVD?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

bittorrent
is the best way.


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## twm01 (May 30, 2002)

> "The Haitian" seems borderline racist, as if there is nothing else important about him except his ethnicity.


Why does this seem racist? I don't see it as referring to his race, but referring to his nationality - he is from Haiti. Is it racist to call someone an American (assuming they are from the US)???


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## twm01 (May 30, 2002)

Yay! My first smeek.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

ping said:


> According to the official recap, he froze time.
> 
> http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/episodes/season1/116/unexpected_09.shtml#recap





vertigo235 said:


> ahem


Are you ahem-ing because the recap is wrong? They weren't darts, they were from a tazer?

How did Parkman know he was Haitian? In an earlier episode, he called him Haitian. I thought that was a big plot flaw (but this show is loaded with those.)


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

jradford said:


> I agree that this episode really did show Peter going what could be perceived as a little "Vader"-ish, but I still don't like calling him a Dark Side guy.
> ... and I dont think Peter is heading in that direction at all.


What I said after watching Peter change this week was "he finally grew a pair." I think that's all it really is. He's changing from being a victim all the time to more proactive, thanks to his lessons from the invisible guy.

Cheryl


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

no my ahem was refering to the fact that I said he frooze time first and evreyone disagreed with me!


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

> Why does this seem racist? I don't see it as referring to his race, but referring to his nationality - he is from Haiti. Is it racist to call someone an American (assuming they are from the US)???


That's almost exactly what I said


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

phox_mulder said:


> Just like HRG, Closed Captioning had him named The Haitian the one and only time we've heard him speak,
> when he spoke to Claire regarding the mind wipes and why he didn't wipe her.
> 
> Now that we know HRG as Mr. Bennet, CC still has him as H.R.G.
> ...


I think you must've missed an episode. He's been quite chatty with Claire since then. Remember, he's the one that led her to her birth mother.

As far as how they know he's Hatian, maybe it's just an openly known fact to them thats just not important enough yet to see on the show. Maybe one day we'll get a Haitian backstory that will settle this for us.


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## dsb411 (Sep 29, 2004)

JETarpon said:


> I want Peter to start bending time and space. After all, he was in the subway with Hiro, so picked up those abilities.


Didn't he stop time when the Tazer probes were coming at him?


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

dsb411 said:


> Didn't he stop time when the Tazer probes were coming at him?


  
come on, now... read the thread


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## ERooker (Jan 16, 2002)

When the taser darts stopped, I thought he had stopped time, but when they fell to the ground, I thought he had used telekinesis.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

vertigo235 said:


> no my ahem was refering to the fact that I said he frooze time first and evreyone disagreed with me!


Oh! I thought you were ahem-ing because sources outside the episode were referenced, and spoiler tags weren't used!


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

This video is pretty funny. A Heroes spoof: Zeroes


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## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Magnolia88 said:


> What has this character said that has anything to do with Haiti? I'm just confused why that is his nickname. Does he ever speak?
> 
> All I know about him is that he appears to be mute and has the power to erase memories. Why isn't he called "The Mute"? Or "The Eraser"? I don't understand why his (supposed) ethnicity is the basis of his nickname. It elevates his ethnicity above every other quality he possesses.
> 
> And I _would_ be offended if someone referred to me as "The American," depending on the context, because I have a name and that isn't it. He's not referred to as being "Haitian," he's called The Haitian as if it were his name.


OK, you're being very, very oversensitive.
The Haitian's backstory will OBVIOUSLY include Haiti, or they wouldn't have named him "The Haitian."
Identifying him by his national origin is not racist, just as identifying you as "The American" would not be racist. It might be something you don't enjoy (I have an easy time imagining that!) but it's not racist.
They're doing it to be mysterious. Same reason they're not telling us what HRG's first name is (and newsflash, he's a tall white dude, so I'm pretty darned sure the term "HRG" isn't a racist one"

Your feeling "The Haitian" is a racist term would be akin to my asserting the ridiculous notion that "HRG" is somehow cruel to the near sighted.


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## Magnolia88 (Jul 1, 2005)

I never said it was racist. It is borderline racist, because he is singled out for his ethnicity and nationality in a way that no other character is.

Can we just let this drop now? MANY PEOPLE ARE BOTHERED BY THIS NICKNAME and from what I've read, NBC is apparently aware of this. I was merely asking where it came from because the character has never said anything about being Haitian. But my question has been answered. A dozen times now. Thanks.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Magnolia88 said:


> Many people are bothered by this nickname


Those people are imagining things and need to relax.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Interesting article about Jack Coleman (HRG). It contains some very minor spoilers about the next episode.

A line I found interesting:



> Catching "lightning in a bottle" twice is how Coleman describes it - an ironic choice of words for the direct descendant of Benjamin Franklin.


 Now I can only picture him with Franklin's hair.


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

Sirius Black said:


> ...This is also a change in behavior with HRG. He hasn't before advocated the killing of one of the "heroes". Not even Sylar.


I remember when HRG first had captured Sylar that he was pushing to kill him. He was on the phone trying to convince his bosses that Sylar was too dangerous to be kept alive and was clearly disgusted by the order to not kill him...

I suspect that what happened at the Bus with Hiro and Ando was partially Hiro's time-bending, and partially some unknown power of Ando's that he isn't even aware of. Maybe some sort of force-field? That would explain why the Versa came through the shoot-out unscathed anyway.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Apparently none of you who defend HRG but dislike haitian wore glasses as a kid. It's hardly acceptable to single out the fact that someone wears glasses anymore than it is to single someone out for being haitian.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> Apparently none of you who defend HRG but dislike haitian wore glasses as a kid. It's hardly acceptable to single out the fact that someone wears glasses anymore than it is to single someone out for being haitian.


Oh, please ... let it rest!


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Why? Not like there's anything else going on in this thread. It's a lot more interesting to me to discuss why someone would find haitian offensive than it is to discuss whether tazer fires darts, prongs, or probes, and whether peter stopped time, used telekenesis, or both.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Well, OK. Good luck with that. I thought there was only one person here who had an issue with the word Haitian as a character's name, with everyone else not having a problem with it. Since that one person publicly announced s/he is done with the argument, maybe you'll be lucky and find someone else to debate you ...


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## Hunter Green (Feb 22, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I figured out how Claire can keep the Haitian's secret (that he didn't mind wipe her.) All it takes is one sentence: "Dad, I can heal. That includes brain injuries."


This is the same Claire that can't keep a secret for a half episode and whose crowning achievement in the field of cunning deception is printing a fake ticket to the aquarium and then forgetting to get rid of it after the trip. You think she's really going to think of that?



MickeS said:


> Mohinder told the super-hearing lady something about that she had been part of a project and left blood, and that it was information from that project that he used to track her down.


I gave some blood for that too. But Mohinder hasn't called me. I guess I don't have any powers. 



devdogaz said:


> We now know his last name (at least the name he uses in his daily life) but we still don't know his first name


More than that, the show has teased us with his lack of a first name, very intentionally.



uncdrew said:


> He was standing close enough to catch her body, he was obviously paying attention to Isaac. Yet he doesn't stop the bullets, or get in the way, or put something else in the way.
> 
> Hmm... able to stop them when it's you being shot, eh tough guy?


Did he stop bullets? I don't remember that. I know this isn't a show to make a big deal about physics, but stopping taser darts is a whole different thing, they travel far far slower than bullets.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

I'm surprised no one mentioned, either here or on the show, that by Ando doing what he did they actually contributed to catching 2 crooks. Accidentally, but still.

I caught the Lost reference "island in the middle of the ocean", but is Inviso Man's name really Claude? Or was HRG pulling a Sawyer nickname gag on us?

Time and space are linked together, folks. It's a physics thing, I think Einstein mentioned it once. At some level, Hiro has the ability to affect both but in what exact way is probably up to the writers. So he focused on the gun and wound up reversing time on the bullet itself, I can live with that. It'll give you Sylar-like headaches if you think about it too much ... so I don't. 

Future Hiro (from the subway) does *not* know about current Peter. In future Hiro's timeline, Peter never went to Texas to save the cheerleader and so never ran into Sylar. I read where Hiro tiptoed around what to tell Peter to keep his timeline intact, but that's clearly not true. His goal was to destroy his timeline. By having Peter do what he did, he clearly changed the timeline _significantly_.

(and now I have a headache ...)


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Delta13 said:


> is Inviso Man's name really Claude? Or was HRG pulling a Sawyer nickname gag on us?


He called himself Claude. It's unclear whether that's his real name or he just assumed the name when he became invisible...


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> He called himself Claude. It's unclear whether that's his real name or he just assumed the name when he became invisible...


He called himself "Claude Rains", which was the name of the star of the classic "The Invisible Man":
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001647/ So I think it's safe to say it's a psuedonym


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Thanks. I didn't remember him saying his name was Claude, but I already deleted the episode so I couldn't check. I got the reference right away, just wondered if HRG was being a little tongue-in-cheek.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Delta13 said:


> Thanks. I didn't remember him saying his name was Claude, but I already deleted the episode so I couldn't check. I got the reference right away, just wondered if HRG was being a little tongue-in-cheek.


He said it when Peter first met him.

phox


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## fergiej (Oct 9, 2002)

I have a theory about Claire's and now Peter's healing ability. I think we are going to find out that the power can be "projected". I think Peter will accidentally find out by healing Simone. I don't have any real evidence of this, but it would give both Peter and Claire a big out. Peter can heal Simone and Claire would be able to heal her mom. Also, in all of the flashforwards of when Peter explodes, Simone is in those visions. 

Maybe because of Hiro's screwing around with the timeline, there is another explanation, but I find my theory easier to swallow. And, who knows, I could waaay off base. I hope we find out tonight...


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

fergiej said:


> I have a theory about Claire's and now Peter's healing ability. I think we are going to find out that the power can be "projected". I think Peter will accidentally find out by healing Simone. I don't have any real evidence of this, but it would give both Peter and Claire a big out. Peter can heal Simone and Claire would be able to heal her mom. Also, in all of the flashforwards of when Peter explodes, Simone is in those visions.
> 
> Maybe because of Hiro's screwing around with the timeline, there is another explanation, but I find my theory easier to swallow. And, who knows, I could waaay off base. I hope we find out tonight...


I think someone just really, really likes Simone and would miss her on-screen ...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

drew2k said:


> Well, OK. Good luck with that. I thought there was only one person here who had an issue with the word Haitian as a character's name, with everyone else not having a problem with it. Since that one person publicly announced s/he is done with the argument, maybe you'll be lucky and find someone else to debate you ...


The new debate is about whether it's ok to make fun of people who wear glasses. Try to keep up. By new, i mean several days old.



fergiej said:


> I have a theory about Claire's and now Peter's healing ability. I think we are going to find out that the power can be "projected". I think Peter will accidentally find out by healing Simone.


I hope not. That would be a seriously weak plot device. Not really sure how they would explain it in the context of the show, either. That would involve reverse-petering, meaning projecting DNA changes onto others instead of absorbing them into himself. No explanation for how claire would do it.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> The new debate is about whether it's ok to make fun of people who wear glasses. Try to keep up. By new, i mean several days old.


Oh! You mean the amusing attempts to debate while substituting "glasses" for "Haitians"? Nope, that's not transparent at all. I'm sorry that the "new" debate about glasses has been so one sided and quiet, but if you find a mirror, maybe you can argue both sides and have someone to play with. 

Again, I can only say, "Good luck with that!"


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## fergiej (Oct 9, 2002)

drew2k said:


> I think someone just really, really likes Simone and would miss her on-screen ...


Busted...


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