# Lost 3/22/06 - "The Whole Truth" *SPOILERS*



## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

A pregnant Sun? Is it Jin's? 

Seems like kind of a slow episode.


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

ya pretty slow so far


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## TSuellentrop (Jan 16, 2006)

doesnt look like its jin's though


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

Nit picking: During the conversation with the doctor and Sun, the caption said "You're husband... he works for your father" Come on, this is a major network show and you can't find someone to spell "Your" correctly? (Pet peeve of mine)

So either Sun is lying, is an immaculate conception (got her baby like Locke got his legs?), was somehow inseminated, Jin was made fertile again (again, like Locke's legs) or the Doc was wrong.


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## njtaz (Feb 22, 2003)

so there wasn't much to this episode until the final minutes and i think my recording cut off about 2 minutes to go. Did I miss anything? Last thing i heard was the captured guy saying if he was one of them he would draw a map to a secluded area....


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Spiff said:


> Nit picking: During the conversation with the doctor and Sun, the caption said "You're husband... he works for your father" Come on, this is a major network show and you can't find someone to spell "Your" correctly? (Pet peeve of mine)
> 
> So either Sun is lying, is an immaculate conception (got her baby like Locke got his legs?), was somehow inseminated, Jin was made fertile again (again, like Locke's legs) or the Doc was wrong.


I noticed that too, actually. I was very surprised that managed to appear on a show like Lost.


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## Todd (Oct 7, 1999)

Yeh, a slower episode tonight. A little dissapointing since it's been 3 weeks. Next week looks very very interesting though...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Just gotta say, going to be cool when the other trade the 3 for henry gale


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I jumped out of my chair when Sun showed up at the Hotel with the bald dude she had met before. I was immediately thinking "oooh Sun is committing adultery, so everyone on the Island does have some strange twist to their past"....then it was just to learn English. Then we learn No baby from the Jin and Sun duo. But then she is pregnant. So....maybe the English lessons were more then what they seemed. 
Then heck, Sun looks in Jin's eyes and tells him there has been no one else. 
So, BINGO, the Island Miracle has happened again. Boy the Island really wants a baby doesn't it!!! I wonder if they tell Locke about it being a Miracle baby that he will mention HIS miracle to them.....

I think the last ten minutes were the best. Henry pitting Locke and Jack against each other again. Weaving the doubts of who he is and where he is from.


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## Maxkare (Aug 7, 2002)

Ok I haven't followed this show , but why do only a few get to go into the hatch with the food and shower,beds etc? It would seem everyone would want their turns?


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

njtaz said:


> so there wasn't much to this episode until the final minutes and i think my recording cut off about 2 minutes to go. Did I miss anything? Last thing i heard was the captured guy saying if he was one of them he would draw a map to a secluded area....


And have his friends capture them. Then they would trade them for him. Then he said it was a good thing he wasn't one of the others and asked if they had some milk.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Easter Egg:

The package for the pregnancy test said "Widmore Labs."

In the episode "Fire + Water," there was a sign on the famous background building that read "Widmore Construction."


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Maxkare said:


> Ok I haven't followed this show , but why do only a few get to go into the hatch with the food and shower,beds etc? It would seem everyone would want their turns?


Good question and one I have asked. I am thinking its because the Hatch has not been revealed to the 'general public' but just to a few. The few top notch members of the 'we are important' club. 
For that matter, even of them, it seems less and less are using the Hatch. We know that Libby has used it for laundry, but that Rose likes doing her wash outside. As for Sawyer, Eko, Kate, Charlie and others that know about the Hatch, why would you not want a real shower rather then a rinse in a pool or ocean? Maybe they come down at other times, but it seems its been off limits for a few days...since Henry showed up. Or maybe since Sawyer cleaned the guns out.


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## SoBelle0 (Jun 25, 2002)

I totally think Sun slept with the English teacher. She's just as scared of Jin as everyone else is... so, she'd never tell him she slept with anyone else. The same thoughts do make me wonder why she told him what the doctor had told her.  So, who knows. 

The look on her face when talking with the teacher at the hotel and then when she talked to the Doc on the street - just made me think she'd slept with him. We shall see...


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Maxkare said:


> Ok I haven't followed this show , but why do only a few get to go into the hatch with the food and shower,beds etc? It would seem everyone would want their turns?


Well, when Claire asked to sleep there, having a young baby, Locke pointed out that the alarm would be waking the baby every ~108 minutes. Makes sense that that might be a reason that anyone would rather not sleep there. Although it seems like it would be worth it sometimes, hard to say.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I immediately noticed the "you're" as well. MAJOR pet peeve.

Okay, so why would you have Henry draw a map? Why wouldn't you make him take you? That way you get a definitive answer and none of this Sayid "you look as long as you want because I've already determined he's an Other" BS. You have a gun, I wouldn't worry about anything he could do to you on the way...and if he is walking you into an ambush, what would it matter if he was there or not?


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## yostmatt (Apr 6, 2005)

Todd said:


> Yeh, a slower episode tonight. A little dissapointing since it's been 3 weeks. Next week looks very very interesting though...


yea, Kinda boring, I figured I was bored with it cuz I was flipping between that and Idol. The previews for next week look awesome. We are finally getting some new episodes


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

SoBelle0 said:


> I totally think Sun slept with the English teacher. She's just as scared of Jin as everyone else is... so, she'd never tell him she slept with anyone else. The same thoughts do make me wonder why she told him what the doctor had told her.  So, who knows.
> 
> The look on her face when talking with the teacher at the hotel and then when she talked to the Doc on the street - just made me think she'd slept with him. We shall see...


That is the first thing I thought when he answered the door, mainly because it could have meant that she was secretly taking birth control. But to reach that conclusion after watching the whole episode would mean that you think that not only was Sun lying to Jin, but that Sun and the bald guy were basically lying to each other, in private. We really have no way of knowing exactly why Jin was infertile, but compared to Locke walking again, overcoming almost any diagnosis seems plausible. I didn't see any indication that they intended for us to think that she was lying to Jin at the end, nor, aside from a slight hint at the beginning, that she and the bald guy were having an affair. A mutual attraction, sure, but I just don't see how they'd have shown us what they did, then cut away right before they jumped each other's bones. For that to make any sense at all, they'd have to reveal to us later that the two of them were aware of someone secretly having them under surveillance, and they were trying to act normal. Of course, she was trying to keep her learning English a secret, too, which blows that theory.


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## JLWINE (Jun 18, 2002)

Anyone else catch Locke saying to Ana-Lucia early in the episode, "looks like you're running from the devil" the same line that Desmond said to Jack when they first met while running stairs?


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

Skittles said:


> I noticed that too, actually. I was very surprised that managed to appear on a show like Lost.


I noticed it too, and captured it:










I'm not surprised at the level of illiteracy on television, though if I were in charge and that happened, the person responsible would be sacked.

It would be outrageous if it made it onto the DVD.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

"You're" caught my eye too.

I couldn't see the point of Sun telling Jin that he was the problem, not her. Not one possible good outcome from that.

Also liked how "Henry Gale" raised the point that we have been bringing up for two years. Why don't they ask more questions? He said something about how he would be asking all sorts of questions about what is going on, and how they (the Losties) just float along, no questions, nothing.

I also thought his speech at the end was too pat, almost goading. Why would an innocent say that? It seemed out of place, unless he *is* an other, in which case it was still out of place.


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## ckelly33 (Oct 30, 2004)

Just a thought: Maybe it wasn't a typo after all. Maybe the doctor, after examining her (*testicles*) is actually acknowledging to Sun that "You are husband..." Brokeback mountain anyone? Which, indeed, would be a miracle of conception.

Or maybe as Henry Gale would have you believe,...it was a typo [one eyebrow raised]

......sorry, couldn't resist


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## rlc1 (Sep 15, 2003)

It seems to me that almost all of the episodes are slow. It's just the nature of the show. But I still love it. I cackled when Henry Gale was telling his little "what if I were one of the others" story at the end. Great stuff.

I am wondering, though...are they ever going to get back to what's going on with Michael?

Oh, and a little off-topic....but did anyone catch the actor who played Desmond on the most recent episode of 24? He played a German intelligence agent.


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## toddvj (Apr 22, 2004)

Guess I'm not the only one. I came here just to comment on the "You're" thing. 

Ok episode otherwise.


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

I actually loved this episode and so did my wife and friends who were over to watch Lost.

It was fun because I was pausing the show and explaining to them things I learn here. I too caught the Widmore Labs box and explained to them the whole thing with the sign on the building. Then I explained to them about the whispers during the rain, etc. and how it seemed that every time something big was going to happen (i.e. they discover something) it starts raining.

I can't wait until next week!

Bryan


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

Has anyone messed with the audio between Sawyer and Bernard? Anything good in there?


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

Come on people, lay off the Youre thing. Obviously they were going for a foreign accent effect.  

As for room full of food, didn't they eat it all up when Hurley realized that it wasn't going to last them long anyway?


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

TR7spyder said:


> Come on people, lay off the Youre thing. Obviously they were going for a foreign accent effect.


I was going to say the same thing... it's Konglish... 



Cboath said:


> Has anyone messed with the audio between Sawyer and Bernard? Anything good in there?


I'm guessing it was just to point out Jin was clueless with what they were saying. The classic Charlie Brown "wahwahwahwah" teacher talk, if you will. He confirmed it later when talking to Sun and saying he couldn't understand anything.

I'm in the Sun didn't cheat camp. And I'm in the "island wants a baby" camp. They've been on the island for about 8-10 weeks? 48 days plus about another 15 or so??? And we can assume Jin and Sun didn't have sex in the days before she was about to leave him. And we can assume if they did have sex on the island, it would have to have been after the reunion, which would be too early for morning sickness. Conception on or around the day of the crash would make morning sickness timing perfect. (Edit: of course, assuming Sun did not cheat and have sex with the other dude right before she was about to leave Jin)

TOO MANY HATERS!!! Loved this ep.

Favorite line, Ana Lucia: "Jack and Locke are too busy worried about Locke and Jack"
2nd favorite line: Hurley: (paraphrasing)"Look what I found in the jungle, just laying there, not even melted or anything."


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

About the "you're" thing:

It's the sad nature of television (and to a lesser extent, film) production that things only get finished just before the broadcast/release deadline. Titling like that is placed on the video at the very end of post-production. This is especially true in the case of shows like Lost - which are color timed very heavily - where titling is placed on the video immediately before putting to tape, after which point the tape is sent to broadcast.

Since I'm sure someone is going to argue all this - or ask for J. Michael Straczynski's opinion  - Damon Lindelof actually speaks on this in the most recent podcast. At about the 14th minute, he mentions how (Post-Production Supervisor) Tamara Isaac often gets the master to the broadcast center only about an hour before the east coast broadcast.

Anyways, I thought it was an excellent episode. But I tend to like the character-centric ones.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

astrohip said:


> Also liked how "Henry Gale" raised the point that we have been bringing up for two years. Why don't they ask more questions? He said something about how he would be asking all sorts of questions about what is going on, and how they (the Losties) just float along, no questions, nothing.
> 
> I also thought his speech at the end was too pat, almost goading. Why would an innocent say that? It seemed out of place, unless he *is* an other, in which case it was still out of place.


If Jack and Locke don't realize with that speech that "Henry" is one of them, they're doomed.
The only reason he would say it is if he is one of them.
They also made a big mistake in giving away the "what map?" business.
And if Henry is correct, it's kind of dumb of Ana Lucia to fall for it.

Now, does Ana Lucia suspect that Charlie is using?
I know she spotted his gun but could there be more to her observing him.

I'm surprised that no one has commented on the fact that Ana Lucia said she was sorry to Sayid.

I also thought that this was a good character episode.


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## tivogurl (Dec 16, 2004)

Why does Jack et al assume that if there's a balloon where he says it is, it isn't planted evidence? Finding his alleged wife's body (who he said he buried) is stronger evidence, assuming the Others aren't willing to execute one of their own just to corroborate Gale's story.


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## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

JLWINE said:


> Anyone else catch Locke saying to Ana-Lucia early in the episode, "looks like you're running from the devil" the same line that Desmond said to Jack when they first met while running stairs?


I caught that right away. I remember when Desmond said it, thinking it was kind of an odd expression, not the kind of thing you hear people say every day. To hear it again from Locke was very noticeable.

Interesting how Locke considers the hatch to be his..."there's someone in MY hatch, and I want him out"...

As for Charlie and the gun...when he pointed out the Ana Lucia that the last time she had a gun she murdered someone...well, gee, Charlie, you did the same thing!

Loved Henry's comment about "trust issues"...that one made me laugh out loud!


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Did anyone notice the street sign in the scene where the Doctor stops Sun on the street? It has a horn (an instrument) in a universal "No" symbol (circle with line through). So essentially "No Horns" sign. What the heck is that? Is that a real sign in Korea or does it mean anything?


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## twincaminferno (Mar 6, 2006)

Im sorry but I thought the whole Sun and Hurley thing where they both thought they were busted was pretty funny.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

yostmatt said:


> yea, Kinda boring, I figured I was bored with it cuz I was flipping between that and Idol. The previews for next week look awesome. We are finally getting some new episodes


Aren't there new episodes of Idol 2-3 times a week?


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I found Kate's comment interesting about why anyone would fly with a home pregnancy test. It was like a pre-emptive response to the obvious nitpick.

Or, it was a response to a pre-emptive obvious nitpick.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Man, my HR10-250 decided last nigth was lockup time so I missed a few key places in Lost las night, including where the doctor told Jin he was infertile? I was wondering about that since endometriosis of the fallopian tubes is Sun so I could not figure why there would be any question on Jin;s part about parentage. Also, did they find the balloon? Man is Lost on iTunes? I might have to actually try it if so.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Lee L said:


> Man, my HR10-250 decided last nigth was lockup time so I missed a few key places in Lost las night, including where the doctor told Jin he was infertile? I was wondering about that since endometriosis of the fallopian tubes is Sun so I could not figure why there would be any question on Jin;s part about parentage. Also, did they find the balloon? Man is Lost on iTunes? I might have to actually try it if so.


Man, you really did miss some key scenes. The doctor told them that Sun had scarring in her fallopian tubes, then later pulled up next to Sun in his car while she was walking the dog, and told her that it was really Jin who was infertile - he didn't specify exactly what was wrong, although not too many options for guys I guess. He said that he couldn't tell Jin the truth, he feared that a man like him who works for Sun's father would burn his office to the ground.

That being said, there was nothing else to suggest that Sun might have been unfaithful to Jin or that he's not the father, despite some of the conjecture here. No facial expressions, music, etc, to suggest that anyone was lying.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

After hearing Henry's tale about an ambush, I was psyched something cool would happen.



Spoiler



But in the preview for next week, they show Anna Lucia finding the balloon.


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## vickerto (May 3, 2004)

Cboath said:


> Has anyone messed with the audio between Sawyer and Bernard? Anything good in there?


I wanted to do that last night, but didn't have time. It seemed like actual words, just played backwards. I know that it was meant to prove a point that Jin couldn't understand them, but I'm curious if there are real words in there.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

I am getting tired of this show. It is still good but not nearly as good as last season. It seems, to me, that it is isn't leading anywhere. Last season, we had the mystery of black smoke, of others, of whether they would be rescued, of the hatch. Now we have whether or not Dorothy's uncle is "an other" and several interrogation scenes. (/yawn). Where is the big suspense? What are we building up to? Did they even bother to tell folks about the make-up accessories they found in the "hospital"? What about Michael? What about his son? Fallout for using the computer for something other than entering the numbers? It's annoying that they save all of that stuff for sweeps. Part of TV these days? Yes. But still annoying.

As for this specific episode, why did Charlie go with Ana-Lucia and Sayid? I thought Charlie was kind of an outcast for his attempt to "save" the baby. It seems like most folks in the camp have forgotten this slight loss of sanity on his part.


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

Count me in the "If they do find a balloon, it STILL doesn't validate Henry's story" camp. It makes sense that Sayid wants to believe there's no balloon (vengeance) and Ana Lucia wants to believe there is (and the story, redemption) .. but is Jack and Locke's bickering really enough to make them realize this? I guess they do find out about the map too late.

Jin saying "Daddy-o" was hysterical.


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I found Kate's comment interesting about why anyone would fly with a home pregnancy test. It was like a pre-emptive response to the obvious nitpick.
> 
> Or, it was a response to a pre-emptive obvious nitpick.


Let's put the obvious option out there? Could the pregnency test be Kate's? Sun asked Kate if she (Kate) ever needed to use a pregnency test and Kate said (sheepishly) "Yes".

I am kind of suprised that Sun & Jin talked about Jin's "work" for Sun's father. From the previous episodes, I was under the impression that Sun had a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" view of the work that Jin did.

I am going with the Sun did not sleep with her friend. My wife kept saying that she was going to have the affair throughout the whole episode. My philosphy with Lost is "If the telegraph the ending throughout an episode, then that is NOT what happened."

Someone mention that we can throw out that Jin & Sun didn't have sex right before they left on the plane, but I don't think we can as right up until they left, Sun had to play the role of the happy wife. With that, the timing is probably about right.

If we assume Sun is between 1-2 months pregnant, at the rate the time is passing on the island, Sun will have her baby around season 5  .


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

A couple of things:

I really liked the evil Charlie. OK, not "evil", but not the happy-go-lucky Charlie of yore...though the old Charlie came out a bit when he was bringing back the fruit for breakfast.

I also wondered what the bald guy was getting out of the English lessons. He is rich, he didn't need money. He didn't know that he was helping her escape. He gives her lessons and she give him...?


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

He did say that he shouldn't be giving relationship advice ... I assume that he, too, was in a marraige he wasn't thrilled with and was enjoying Sun's companionship, even if it was purely platonic.


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## speedcouch (Oct 23, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I didn't see any indication that they intended for us to think that she was lying to Jin at the end, nor, aside from a slight hint at the beginning, that she and the bald guy were having an affair.


After she swore she hadn't be unfaithful and they hugged, she had a painful expression on her face. To me, that was intended to make you doubt the truth of what she said. Also, the fact she and the teacher had a "longing look" and then they cut away from the flashback also leaves it open for speculation. But I tend to believe the "miracle baby" is a product of the island just like Locke's recovery for paralisis.

Charlie sure was acting odd on the trip with Ana Lucia and Sayid. Made me finally agree with most folks here; that he is using again. But, what I really want to know is why on earth would Ana Lucia feel comfortable enlisting Sayid's help in tracking down the balloon. I mean, I can't believe he'd even tolerate being around her after the shooting. Then, we have the big forgiveness scene on the hike. Guess I just think it would've made more sense to have to happen before they teamed on on the search.

Quite humorous when Sawyer was talking "daddyo" to Bernard and Jin didn't understand, so we heard them talking in gibberish (from his point of view). I didn't get this at first, but my husband figured it out right away.

Decent episode, but why must we have to wait so long between them??? OB whine. 

Cheryl


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

speedcouch said:


> Quite humorous when Sawyer was talking "daddyo" to Bernard and Jin didn't understand, so we heard them talking in gibberish (from his point of view). I didn't get this at first, but my husband figured it out right away.
> 
> Decent episode, but why must we have to wait so long between them??? OB whine.
> 
> Cheryl


Actually, the local radio station reversed the audio and they are saying something. They haven't played it yet. I will let you know what it says when they do the segment.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

I have to agree, Finding the balloon dosen't prove anything. The Others could have captured the balloonist and he just told them about the balloon.


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## Tivortex (Feb 29, 2004)

smickola said:


> Interesting how Locke considers the hatch to be his..."there's someone in MY hatch, and I want him out"...


Interesting how they CONTINUE to refer to a bunker by the name of it's DOOR!


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

from the preview for next week :



Spoiler



it sure did sound like Desmond's voice in the last part as you see Locke diving for the closing door


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Kind of a so-so episode.

One comment I have at this point is that I find Sun 100% credible. She's slept with no one but Jin. Her pregnancy is another "island miracle".

Another comment I have is that Henry Gale is an other. He's simply too creepy, and give me a break about his name, eh? Jeeze! 

Even if they find a balloon, he's still an other. The balloon could easily be planted to corroborate his story.

Also: I noticed "You're" too. Nothing like procrastinating on the subtitles until there's no time for proofreading.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Spiff said:


> Nit picking: During the conversation with the doctor and Sun, the caption said "You're husband... he works for your father" Come on, this is a major network show and you can't find someone to spell "Your" correctly? (Pet peeve of mine)


Yeah I noticed that too. Actually it kind of leapt out at me. Not the first time there have been spelling errors in captions on this show. Tsk tsk.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

I am also not buying the existence of the balloon (if it is found) as proof of anything:

A)	The balloon could have been there from some other air travelers and Henry is using it as an alibi.
B)	The balloon could have been Henrys and his real wife might be berried near by, but that does not mean that didnt become one of the others after crash-landing and loosing his wife.

Basically Henry is crewed, unless they go soft on him.

As for humorous scenes, there were plenty. I cant believe no-one brought the one that I thought was the best: 

Charlie to Anna-Lucia (paraphrasing): Humor is not his (Sayids) strong point (after a look at Anna-Lucia) and I am telling this to YOU?


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> After she swore she hadn't be unfaithful and they hugged, she had a painful expression on her face. To me, that was intended to make you doubt the truth of what she said.


absolutely. the look on sun's face as they hugged after jin professed the 'miracle' said it all. she cheated. whether the baby is a result of that cheating, who knows?

the writers were really spinning wheels with this ep.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

TR7spyder said:


> I am also not buying the existence of the balloon (if it is found) as proof of anything:
> 
> A)	The balloon could have been there from some other air travelers and Henry is using it as an alibi.
> B)	The balloon could have been Henrys and his real wife might be berried near by, but that does not mean that didnt become one of the others after crash-landing and loosing his wife.
> ...


He's not screwed if the others capture the 3 and use them to trade, then he is fine.

If they don't capture them at all and they go back having found the balloon or not he is then screwed.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Other than showing every minute of Sun's life from the time she first met the bald guy, I don't know how much more clear they could have been that Sun never slept with him. And it would be totally out of character to think she would have ever cheated on him. Think back to the way she slapped Michael for challenging Jin, even when he was sorta coming to her defense. Obviously things aren't always as they seem on this show, but when they aren't, they usually give us at least some hint that they aren't, by making it obvious that they're leaving something out of the story. 

She said she was going to go tell him "the whole truth," and she revealed a significant secret she had been keeping from him. I think people are trying too hard to see something that's just not there. Why would she lie to him? If the father is anyone but Jin, it's going to be pretty obvious since there are no other Asian men on the island.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> Other than showing every minute of Sun's life from the time she first met the bald guy, I don't know how much more clear they could have been that Sun never slept with him.


The bald guy said 'What are you doing here? You're fluent in English.' or something to that effect. Close up of Sun looking at him. She steps closer. Cut away. Take from it what you will but it sure ain't showing "every minute of Sun's life". I think they hooked up.



> She said she was going to go tell him "the whole truth," and she revealed a significant secret she had been keeping from him.


and after the one significant secret she tried to tell him something else but she didn't get it out. then he declared it a miracle.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> She said she was going to go tell him "the whole truth," and she revealed a significant secret she had been keeping from him. I think people are trying too hard to see something that's just not there. Why would she lie to him? If the father is anyone but Jin, it's going to be pretty obvious since there are no other Asian men on the island.


DING, DING, DING, DING!

We have a winner.

If she had cheated on him, *there's no way in hell she'd have told him that it was him, not her, who was sterile!* She'd have simply allowed him to believe that it was _her_ that was barren and that her pregnancy was an "island miracle."

By revealing to him that _he was the one who was sterile_ she is opening him up to be hugely suspicious of her cheating on him!

This is why we know she is telling the truth. She is extremely brave to have told him the whole truth. She took a huge risk that he would be infuriated, accuse her of cheating, and leave her forever.

It is this boldness that most strongly demonstrates she has been faithful.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> He's not screwed if the others capture the 3 and use them to trade, then he is fine.
> 
> If they don't capture them at all and they go back having found the balloon or not he is then screwed.


But that little speech he gave was an example of writing to the audience, not to the characters. Yes, it suggested to us that he really is an Other, but it also suggested it to Jack and Locke, and that's something he'd not logically do (unless he enjoys being tortured).


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

I thought this was a great character-development episode.

Sun and Jin - nice bit of storytelling there.

Sun's pregnancy - could she have been impregnated while she was being held by the others, as part of their sociology experiement? Or just because they need more kids for their medical experiments? And maybe Sun suspects that, and is worried about Jin's reaction when the baby is only half Korean, hence the worried look on her face at the end?

Anna-Lucia and Charlie - loved AL's line "Jack and Locke are too worried about Locke and Jack", and Charlie's reaction. Nicely acted, nicely directed.

AL and Sayid - AL saying to Sayid "I asked nicely" (about Henry Gale) and Sayid's slightly stung reaction was great.

Henry Gale and Locke and Jack - the ending scene alone was worth the whole hour. Henry's smug performance was off the scale on the creep-o-meter. Seems like his trickery has netted him and the other others more information about the lostaways then their beatings have gotten them about the others. And surely the "why haven't you asked more questions" line was a nod to the online chatter about the show, no?


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

chavez said:


> absolutely. the look on sun's face as they hugged after jin professed the 'miracle' said it all. she cheated. whether the baby is a result of that cheating, who knows?
> 
> the writers were really spinning wheels with this ep.


With whom? When? How you could get that from nothing more than a look on her face is incomprehensible to me. There's been no other suggestion of her cheating, the scenes with the bald guy made it clear that there was nothing sexual going on between them, so who was it? What else has happened on this show that would make you think that they are going to have some flashback with her and some new character we've never met before, or with an existing character with whom there's been no hint that there's been something going on, or with the bald guy that would render the scenes we saw last night utterly meaningless?

When they've wanted us to think something, they typically give us some hints that it might be true, or get us wondering. They don't do everything possible to convince us that it isn't. She's pregnant on a desert island where people steal babies. That could certainly explain her "pained expression," if that's how one would describe it.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> from the preview for next week :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The promo they show in Canada is always different than the one shown on ABC (and they're often so different that you'd think they were previewing a completely different episode). The Canadian promo only showed two characters and one event:



Spoiler



We see Locke and Gail in the hatch talking when a woman's voice starts a countdown over the loudspeaker.

Locke and Gail start freaking out and running around trying to figure out what's happening.

When the countdown reaches zero, the blast doors start dropping and Locke and Gail look at each other helplessly.

The promo ends with a shot of Gail in the dark, lit with a faint red light, and he says, "What happened?", the same line heard at the end of the ABC promo.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

bdlucas said:


> Sun's pregnancy - could she have been impregnated while she was being held by the others, as part of their sociology experiement?


Sun was never "held by the others".

Her attack was a ruse, pulled off by Charlie.

We can be pretty sure at this point that Sun has never been around the "others" at all.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> It is this boldness that proves she has been faithful.


you can write that it's proven, and even italicize the word 'proves'... but her boldness proves nothing.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

If you think that Jin got cranky in season one when Michael had his fathers watch, what would happen if Walt suddenly had a new brother on the island. I know it's not going to happen, but it sure would be funny and create some good tension


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

There's no way Sun cheated on her husband. The Island "cured" her the same way it fixed Locke's legs. I don't think Sun wants to be pregnant, though. Jin can be an a-hole. I wouldn't want his children either.

I'm sick of the whole "Everybody has to ask Jack's permission" stuff.

Why haven't the 40-odd survivors beaten the crap out of Sawyer and "liberated" his cache of supplies? There's no way he could horde everything like that in real life with no challenges.

Where did Charlie get a gun? Why didn't Ana Lucia knock the snot out of him?

Henry Gale is creepy. Even if he's not an Other, he's too skeevy to let stay in the camp. Instead of worrying about his balloon, why don't they investigate his camp?

This ep was about as interesting as the second Sopranos episode.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> How you could get that from nothing more than a look on her face is incomprehensible to me.


can't help you there.



> When they've wanted us to think something, they typically give us some hints that it might be true, or get us wondering.


i took a hint from the last encounter with sun and baldy, which i've written earlier.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> But that little speech he gave was an example of writing to the audience, not to the characters. Yes, it suggested to us that he really is an Other, but it also suggested to Jack and Locke, and that's something he'd not logically do (unless he enjoys being tortured).


That cat's nearly out of the bag already because AL, Sayid and Charlie are about to be kidnapped. Henry knows he's safe for now because Jack and Locke won't do anything that would jeopardize the trio. So he's getting a little psychological revenge for the beatings. His personality has made him a lifelong victim and scheming and gloating is all he knows.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

getbak said:


> The promo they show in Canada is always different than the one shown on ABC (and they're often so different that you'd think they were previewing a completely different episode). The Canadian promo only showed two characters and one event:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That last voice you elude to sounded more to me like the person I cited, not the person you cited. I guess we'll find out in 6 days and about 11 hours....


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

chavez said:


> you can write that it's proven, and even italicize the word 'proves'... but her boldness proves nothing.


Sheesh, man. It's only a TV show, calm down.

I used the word "proves" as in, "In my mind, beyond a reasonable doubt" (as though, I the viewer, were a "jury" of one).

It's "really strong evidence", in my opinion.

If your opinion is different, I totally respect it. No need to get hostile.

It's a TV show, for heaven's sake!


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Sun was never "held by the others".
> 
> Her attack was a ruse, pulled off by Charlie.
> 
> We can be pretty sure at this point that Sun has never been around the "others" at all.


Oh yeah. Must pay more attention


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Stop, stop, stop, STOP it!

This episode was quite obviously trying to play us with Sun & Jin.

* They establish Sun can't get pregnant because of whatever
* Sun gets pregnant
* We think MIRACLE!
* They establish it's Jin who's sterile, not Sun
* Half of us think INFIDELITY!
* The other half still think MIRACLE!
* We fight it out and argue over it for the next 6 months

I don't know. I just don't know.

Hey, why is Charlie being all buddy-buddy with people at this stage?

Greg


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> There's no way Sun cheated on her husband. The Island "cured" her the same way it fixed Locke's legs.


Be carefull, them's fightin' words to chavez (for some crazy reason).


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> Sheesh, man. It's only a TV show, calm down.


i'm calm. but when you write that it's proven it's like taking the issue off the table. i can totally see how you would believe that she didn't cheat. i believe she did. no biggie.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Why would the Others need Henry Gale to kidnap any of the survivors? Unless Mr. Eko has scared them off or something, they've proven that they can pretty much do whatever they want, whenever they want.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

gchance said:


> * We fight it out and argue over it for the next 6 months


My goodness, you're right! WE"RE the sociology experiment! I'm off to find the hatch.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Why would the Others need Henry Gale to kidnap any of the survivors? Unless Mr. Eko has scared them off or something, they've proven that they can pretty much do whatever they want, whenever they want.


I think they sent him to spy. He sent the survivors off to be kidnapped as his exit strategy.


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## reggers (Jul 27, 2002)

TR7spyder said:


> Come on people, lay off the Youre thing. Obviously they were going for a foreign accent effect.
> 
> As for room full of food, didn't they eat it all up when Hurley realized that it wasn't going to last them long anyway?


I think the whole food thing is to give a reason for Hurley not losing any weight. C'mon - they've been on this island for almost 2 months with limited food and Hurley hasn't lost any weight...the only reason they can give is that he's been hording food and chocolate....


----------



## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> That last voice you elude to sounded more to me like the person I cited, not the person you cited. I guess we'll find out in 6 days and about 11 hours....


I didn't allude to anyone. As I said, the Canadian promo shows him saying it on camera.

What were Sayid and Charlie building (or were they taking it apart?) when Ana Lucia came up to them?


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I think the pained expression on Sun's face when she was hugging Jin after telling him she had not cheated was due to one thing: _How the heck am I going to explain a black baby in ~9 months?_ 

And where did Jack and Locke get the box of Dharma cereal? I thought they had eaten everything from the storeroom (save for the things Hurley stashed somewhere).

That was a great scene when Charlie psyched A-L out before handing the gun to Sayid. Did Sawyer, keeper of the guns, give it to Charlie, or did he steal it from the hiding place?

As for Charlie using - remember, it's heroin, not speed, coke, or pot. Charlie would be on his ass vacantly staring into space, not giddily cracking jokes or acting loopy.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

So nobody thinks Sun and Michael could have slept together?


----------



## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> Other than showing every minute of Sun's life from the time she first met the bald guy, I don't know how much more clear they could have been that Sun never slept with him. And it would be totally out of character to think she would have ever cheated on him. Think back to the way she slapped Michael for challenging Jin, even when he was sorta coming to her defense. Obviously things aren't always as they seem on this show, but when they aren't, they usually give us at least some hint that they aren't, by making it obvious that they're leaving something out of the story.


I think that Sun cheated. The bald guy asked her to stay in Korea for him. We all know she didn't, but she was on the outs with Jin at the time over the whole sterility thing. The pained looked on her face said as much. 


jeff125va said:


> If the father is anyone but Jin, it's going to be pretty obvious since there are no other Asian men on the island.


The bald guy was Asian. They've only been on the Island for 50 days. Maybe she missed her period once and attributed it to stress.

If Sayid and Ana-Lucia don't get ambushed and return to the camp unharmed, maybe Henry's story will actually get them to trust him more. The fact that it didn't happen. Still, there'd have to be a baloon planted there.


----------



## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

getbak said:


> The promo they show in Canada is always different than the one shown on ABC (and they're often so different that you'd think they were previewing a completely different episode). The Canadian promo only showed two characters and one event:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, they sure do give away alot more in the Canadian previews than here! That is one huge honking spoiler IMO.


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

astrohip said:


> Also liked how "Henry Gale" raised the point that we have been bringing up for two years. Why don't they ask more questions? He said something about how he would be asking all sorts of questions about what is going on, and how they (the Losties) just float along, no questions, nothing.


That comment didn't really make any sense to me.

Who are they going to ask? Henry? It's not like there is an "Other" hotline they can call and ask questions anytime they want. I think they have tried to figure out as much as they can since they've been there - opening the hatch, watching the film, etc.

In fact, the only opportunity they have had to ask any questions with a someone they knew for sure was an "Other" was the Mr. Friendly hostage situation, which wasn't exactly the right time to talk about cereal expiration dates.


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

BeanMeScot said:


> Actually, the local radio station reversed the audio and they are saying something. They haven't played it yet. I will let you know what it says when they do the segment.


Darn! I missed it. Someone needs to reverse that audio. The radio station guy is a big Lost fan and he says they really are saying something.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Why hasn't Locke told anyone he was wheelchair-bound before landing on the island? To me, that's something other people might be interested in, just a little.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

pmyers said:


> So nobody thinks Sun and Michael could have slept together?


I do (post above yours)! I think outside of a Locke style miracle, Michael is the most likely candidate.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Chibbie said:


> That comment didn't really make any sense to me.
> 
> Who are they going to ask?


That's why I think it was purely a nod to the audience, i.e. the online chatter. As if to say "it's just a TV show". Even Shakespeare occasionally had his actors step out of character and speak to the audience.


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

C'mon, the father is obvious. You only need two lines from Sun (paraphrased):

* (to Jin): I have been with no other man.
* (to Kate): Thank you for not asking why you are here with me, not Jin.

She's sleeping with Kate, and the island has worked its magic. 


On another note, I'm curious about the use of foreign languages on this show. Why is it that when Koreans speak to each other we need subtitles, but when Iraqis speak to each other they speak in accented English? In the first Sayid flashback episode, they started with subtitles, then faded to English, and in the most recent episode, they didn't even bother. It seems like a weird inconsistency.


----------



## twincaminferno (Mar 6, 2006)

Let me ask you this....why hasnt Kate told anyone about what she found in the medical area that they found?? Its like the Lost people keep each other in the dark about everything. Unless she told certain people and we werent notified. Gotta check my email from her...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bdlucas said:


> My goodness, you're right! WE"RE the sociology experiment! I'm off to find the hatch.


You sad, deluded man.

Don't you know you've been living down the hatch for the past year and a half?!?


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> Sun was never "held by the others".
> 
> Her attack was a ruse, pulled off by Charlie.
> 
> We can be pretty sure at this point that Sun has never been around the "others" at all.


But Sun and Jin don't know that. Jin may end up suspecting the others. But probably not.


----------



## mightyb (Dec 5, 2003)

Any signifigance in Sawyer reading "Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret ". My wife burst out laughing when she saw that...
I had no clue, but aparently the book is about Margaret discovering her body and transition into womanhood.

Also:


> Where did Charlie get a gun? Why didn't Ana Lucia knock the snot out of him?


I think from the deal he worked out from Sawyer when he had to kidnapp Sun.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Where did Charlie get a gun?


Remember, Charlie is the one who actually stole the guns and hid them for Sawyer.

edit: Doh! Beat to the punch.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

chavez said:


> can't help you there.
> 
> i took a hint from the last encounter with sun and baldy, which i've written earlier.


There was no hint. You might speculate something, but they didn't hint at it. I might speculate that she killed him after they cut the scene, that doesn't mean they hinted at it.


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> Why would she lie to him? If the father is anyone but Jin, it's going to be pretty obvious since there are no other Asian men on the island.


Sayid is Asian. (Iraq is in Asia.)


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

astrohip said:


> I couldn't see the point of Sun telling Jin that he was the problem, not her. Not one possible good outcome from that.


The point was even spelled out in the title of the show: "The whole truth".

Someone wrote earlier in the thread an obvious point: if she had been cheating on him, it made NO sense at all to say that HE was the infertile one. That, along with all the other scenes of her NOT having an affair, and telling Jin that she didn't makes it pretty clear that she told the truth.

Of course, it doesn't matter. This show makes everyone speculate wildly about all kinds of stuff that is spelled out clearly.


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## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

thenightfly42 said:


> C'mon, the father is obvious. You only need two lines from Sun (paraphrased):
> 
> * (to Jin): I have been with no other man.
> * (to Kate): Thank you for not asking why you are here with me, not Jin.
> ...


Ok, that's funny!  :up:


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Speaking of Kate. The way she said the stuff about "why would anyone have birth control with them on a plane?" made it seem like she was the one who brought it with her. Otherwise it was just really awkward delivery of the line.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

mask2343 said:


> Did anyone notice the street sign in the scene where the Doctor stops Sun on the street? It has a horn (an instrument) in a universal "No" symbol (circle with line through). So essentially "No Horns" sign. What the heck is that? Is that a real sign in Korea or does it mean anything?


It's an internationaly used street sign that means you can't use your car horn in that area. Very common in many countries and really nothing unusual.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

DUDE_NJX said:


> It's an internationaly used street sign that means you can't use your car horn in that area.


Why wouldn't you be able to use your horn?


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> There's no way Sun cheated on her husband. The Island "cured" her the same way it fixed Locke's legs.


It cured Jin.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Amnesia said:


> Why wouldn't you be able to use your horn?


Noise pollution.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> Why hasn't Locke told anyone he was wheelchair-bound before landing on the island? To me, that's something other people might be interested in, just a little.


He told Boone, and look what happened to him. Information is death.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I'm in the Henry Gale is an "other" camp. Even if they find a balloon, I think the others probably captured the real Henry, and this guy is using their story. That speech makes no sense if he's who he says he is.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

MickeS said:


> Speaking of Kate. The way she said the stuff about "why would anyone have birth control with them on a plane?" made it seem like she was the one who brought it with her. Otherwise it was just really awkward delivery of the line.


I think it would be _more _ likely to find birth control rather than a pregnancy test, which is what they found...from Widmore Labs, no less.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> The point was even spelled out in the title of the show: "The whole truth".
> 
> Someone wrote earlier in the thread an obvious point: if she had been cheating on him, it made NO sense at all to say that HE was the infertile one. That, along with all the other scenes of her NOT having an affair, and telling Jin that she didn't makes it pretty clear that she told the truth.


Telling Jin he was infertile if she had an affair doesn't make sense unless she believes that when the baby comes it will be difficult to tell who the father is if the affair is with another Korean.

If she had the affair with Baldy. She can still get away with what she has said until appropriate DNA tests are performed.

Having said that, I believe she told "The Whole Truth". But I'm prone to gullibility.

kel


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

hefe said:


> I think it would be _more _ likely to find birth control rather than a pregnancy test, which is what they found...from Widmore Labs, no less.


D'oh! That's what I meant of course.


----------



## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Speaking of Kate. The way she said the stuff about "why would anyone have birth control with them on a plane?" made it seem like she was the one who brought it with her. Otherwise it was just really awkward delivery of the line.


I think that this is the first time I have been smeeked 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3884881&&#post3884881


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> Sayid is Asian. (Iraq is in Asia.)


Nitpick. Clearly in the context of the discussion he meant there are no other east Asian men on the island. If Sayid were the father that would be as obvious as if any of the European or African men were the father.


----------



## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

hefe said:


> I'm in the Henry Gale is an "other" camp. Even if they find a balloon, I think the others probably captured the real Henry, and this guy is using their story. That speech makes no sense if he's who he says he is.


This statement also means that finding buried wife is not proof of "Henry Gale's" veracity.

kel


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Henry say at the end, something like "maybe its a trap, and they'll trade your 3 for me." If that's what he said, how would he have known that 3 people went. He just gave the map to AL. He would not have any knowledge that she took Sayid and Charlie.


Also, regarding Locke, don't you think at least one of the 40 or so people on the island would remember him being wheelchair bound from the airport/airplane? Didn't they have to carry him onto the plane? No one remembered that and questioned it?

And I agree, why wouldn't Locke tell anyone about that. Given everything that's happened, you'd think he'd tell Jack or someone...


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

It's impossible to prove Henry Gale's affiliation one way or the other, IMO. But you could probably argue that if his story corroborates, he's likely telling the truth.

By the way, how would the others know when AL and company would get to the place?


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

pmyers said:


> So nobody thinks Sun and Michael could have slept together?


No way...

Think about it, for the first 10 days or so, Jin pretty much had Sun in isolation. Jin was handcuffed somewhere in that time. Sun was still very supportive of Jin at that time. She even spoke to Michael to try and get Jin released. Then Michael was gone on the raft at about day 44 or so. For 10 days before that, Jin and Michael became good friends working on the raft.

So that leaves a 3 week window for Sun and Michael to get it on. IMO, Native Korean girl, very traditional, who, despite all the bs she had to put up with from Jin, is not going to cheat on her husband, not in that time frame, not in that new situation where plane crash will tend to strengthen your bond with your loved one, and, like it or not, not with a black man, where all they know in Korea is "how bad gangsters treat Koreans in South Central".

edit: looking at your post again, maybe you were kidding.  But, still, good arguement against the black/korean baby.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Sayid is Asian. (Iraq is in Asia.)


I stand corrected.


----------



## kdelande (Dec 17, 2001)

goMO said:


> Also, regarding Locke, don't you think at least one of the 40 or so people on the island would remember him being wheelchair bound from the airport/airplane? Didn't they have to carry him onto the plane? No one remembered that and questioned it?


I believe he was one of the first on the plane, due to his need for assistance.

KD


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

goMO said:


> And I agree, why wouldn't Locke tell anyone about that. Given everything that's happened, you'd think he'd tell Jack or someone...


See post #104.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bdlucas said:


> Nitpick. Clearly in the context of the discussion he meant there are no other east Asian men on the island. If Sayid were the father that would be as obvious as if any of the European or African men were the father.


Thanks for having my back, dude.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Since it has all been said already.......I'll just say: :up::up:


----------



## Haxx (Feb 25, 2003)

Here's a thought. If this has been mentioned somewhere else, don't flame me. ;-)

What if Henry is not an other.

Maybe he (or at least his wife) was captured by the others. And the others told him to get some of the Lost crew to walk into a trap and they would let his wife go.

This would mean, he is telling partially the truth (except his wife's death).

Her return and safety would be his utmost goal.

Just a guess.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

To REALLY nitpick, Europe and Asia are on the same landmass, and the border between them is not set in stone (so to speak). Usually, it's divided into East Asia, Southeast Asia (Viet Nam etc.), Central Asia (Tibet, Mongolia, etc.), South Asia (India etc.), the Middle East (Iraq, Israel, etc.), and Europe (with its own little subdivisions).

I've never heard Iraqis called Asian.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

kdelande said:


> I believe he was one of the first on the plane, due to his need for assistance.
> 
> KD


Yeah, this was discussed a number of times last season, it was prompted by events in several episodes. Including when they showed him being carried onto the plane before anyone else had boarded.


----------



## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> There was no hint. You might speculate something, but they didn't hint at it. I might speculate that she killed him after they cut the scene, that doesn't mean they hinted at it.


that moment between the two in the hotel room was a hint that they had romantic feelings for eachother. the fact that sun was going to tell jin something else before jin interrupted her and told her it was a miralce was a hint that she had something else to say.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Haxx said:


> Here's a thought. If this has been mentioned somewhere else, don't flame me. ;-)
> 
> What if Henry is not an other.
> 
> ...


Interesting speculation, and at least possible if not plausible. At least it doesn't run completely contrary to everything we've seen, like some theories in this thread. Still, I think he might be more likely to enlist their help. I mean, if he's not _with_ the others, and he leads the flight 815 people into a trap, that would pretty much leave him and his wife hanging, wouldn't it? Perhaps literally.


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

goMO said:


> please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Henry say at the end, something like "maybe its a trap, and they'll trade your 3 for me." If that's what he said, how would he have known that 3 people went. He just gave the map to AL. He would not have any knowledge that she took Sayid and Charlie.


Wow, nice catch.  I can't imagine that's an error by the scriptwriters. I had been assuming that the "draw a map, trap some Losties" was in the Other's standard operating procedures for escaping from imprisonment. However, if he _knows _that there are three Losties following the map, then he must be in communication with the other Others, and it is possible that they developed the plan while he was imprisoned.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

chavez said:


> that moment between the two in the hotel room was a hint that they had romantic feelings for eachother. the fact that sun was going to tell jin something else before jin interrupted her and told her it was a miralce was a hint that she had something else to say.


Yes, for that moment it was a hint that they had a mutual attraction. But in its totality, it was obvious that they didn't act on that.

So if he hadn't interrupted her, she would have said, "I have never been with another man. But I have been with another man."


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> I've never heard Iraqis called Asian.


Iraq is definitely in Asia. There are only seven continents and Iraq is not in North America, South America, Australia, Antartica, Africa or Europe. That leaves only Asia.

And yes, people generally use "Asian" as meaning only South-East Asians. It's just a stupid PC thing to do instead of using "Oriental". They take a general word ("Asian") and use it to replace a specific word ("Oriental"). But then people are confused when the word is used in its original context. For example, most people wouldn't refer to Lenny from _The Apprentice_ as "Asian", but he definitely is.

People did the same thing with "homicide bomber". Most bombings are homicides, but instead of using the precise term "suicide bomber", they use the general phrase "homicide bomber" to mean a bombing where the bomber commits suicide. Stupid.

OK, sorry for my rant. Back on topic.


----------



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To REALLY nitpick, Europe and Asia are on the same landmass, and the border between them is not set in stone (so to speak). Usually, it's divided into East Asia, Southeast Asia (Viet Nam etc.), Central Asia (Tibet, Mongolia, etc.), South Asia (India etc.), the Middle East (Iraq, Israel, etc.), and Europe (with its own little subdivisions).
> 
> I've never heard Iraqis called Asian.


Its Southwest Asia. One of my military ribbons is Southwest Asia ribbon for time ive spent in the gulf. So technically it is Asia.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

goMO said:


> please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Henry say at the end, something like "maybe its a trap, and they'll trade your 3 for me." If that's what he said, how would he have known that 3 people went. He just gave the map to AL. He would not have any knowledge that she took Sayid and Charlie.


I agree - great catch. Other or not, how the heck would he know that A-L enlisted two more for the trek. Especially since Charlie sort of tagged along. It's not like Locke or Jack could have revealed anything since they were even more in the dark.

Very interesting. I can't imagine it was an error by the writers, but then again I can't imagine how he could have found out....


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Hope I'm not smeeking with this because I only skimmed the last couple of pages but:

Regarding Sun's pregnancy:

Whether she cheated or not, or with who could be left unresolved until the series is canceled.

Let's see....

We're 75% through the second season of the show, and from dialog on this show they've been on the island about 50 days.

At that rate, the show could run 10 seasons and Sun would still be in her first trimester! 

We may never meet Sun's baby!


----------



## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

KRS said:


> I can't imagine how he could have found out....


Man this is why i love this show. There are so many things that if you dont watch closely you are screwed. How did he know there were 3 that went if he was locked up the whole time.... HMMMM


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> Iraq is definitely in Asia. There are only seven continents and Iraq is not in North America, South America, Australia, Antartica, Africa or Europe. That leaves only Asia.
> 
> And yes, people generally use "Asian" as meaning only South-East Asians. It's just a stupid PC thing to do instead of using "Oriental". They take a general word ("Asian") and use it to replace a specific word ("Oriental"). But then people are confused when the word is used in its original context. For example, most people wouldn't refer to Lenny from _The Apprentice_ as "Asian", but he definitely is.


I served on the board of the PTO at my son's school for a couple of years.

A frequent topic, and something that was rigorously tracked, was the ethnic percentages of the school

His school had a fairly large number of people with ancestry from the Orient, as well as from the Middle East (Arab countries) and India. In the demographic documents, all these were called "Asian".


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## Sir_Q (Jun 27, 2002)

I predict this seasons cliff hanger will have Maury Povich land on the island in a yellow smiley face parachute with envelope in hand just to reveal to Jin, "You are NOT the father of Suns baby!"


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> But in its totality, it was obvious that they didn't act on that.


based on what?



> So if he hadn't interrupted her, she would have said, "I have never been with another man. But I have been with another man."


not sure what you mean here.


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## Jolt (Jan 9, 2006)

Sir_Q said:


> I predict this seasons cliff hanger will have Maury Povich land on the island in a yellow smiley face parachute with envelope in hand just to reveal to Jin, "You are NOT the father of Suns baby!"


LMAO


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## reggers (Jul 27, 2002)

MickeS said:


> It's impossible to prove Henry Gale's affiliation one way or the other, IMO. But you could probably argue that if his story corroborates, he's likely telling the truth.
> 
> By the way, how would the others know when AL and company would get to the place?


So what if his story corrobroates?...it doesn't mean that the parachute had anything to do with him and being stranded on the island.

I think they are walking right into a trap or an ambush - I'm sure the others patrol and stake out parts of the island in the event that some unsuspecting person wanders into their territory.

It seems obvious that Henry is devious - he's obviously working Locke and Jack and did you see that look he gave Sayid after the beating...this guy is evil and needs to be dealt with!!!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> I served on the board of the PTO at my son's school for a couple of years.
> 
> A frequent topic, and something that was rigorously tracked, was the ethnic percentages of the school
> 
> His school had a fairly large number of people with ancestry from the Orient, as well as from the Middle East (Arab countries) and India. In the demographic documents, all these were called "Asian".


Egypt (and probably a few other surrounding Arab countries) is usually referred to as a "Middle-East" country. It's in Africa.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

goMO said:


> please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Henry say at the end, something like "maybe its a trap, and they'll trade your 3 for me." If that's what he said, how would he have known that 3 people went. He just gave the map to AL. He would not have any knowledge that she took Sayid and Charlie.


Excellent catch! :up:

Not only does it not make sense that Henry Other Gale would know there are three out looking, but Jack & Locke didn't question it either. How do *they* know three went out? They didn't even know about the map in the first place?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Chibbie said:


> That comment didn't really make any sense to me.
> 
> Who are they going to ask? Henry? It's not like there is an "Other" hotline they can call and ask questions anytime they want. I think they have tried to figure out as much as they can since they've been there - opening the hatch, watching the film, etc.
> 
> In fact, the only opportunity they have had to ask any questions with a someone they knew for sure was an "Other" was the Mr. Friendly hostage situation, which wasn't exactly the right time to talk about cereal expiration dates.


I was referring to them talking to each other, not the Others. Maybe they just don't show us, but it seems there is little cross-informational dialog between the Losties. Everyone keeps each other in the dark.



twincaminferno said:


> Let me ask you this....why hasnt Kate told anyone about what she found in the medical area that they found?? Its like the Lost people keep each other in the dark about everything. Unless she told certain people and we werent notified. Gotta check my email from her...


My point exactly.


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## crowfan (Dec 27, 2003)

The book Sawyer was reading was "Are you there, God, it's Me, Margaret," by Judy Blume, about (among other things) a girl getting her period for the first time. Linked very nicely with the topic at hand.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

chavez said:


> based on what?
> 
> not sure what you mean here.


The entire span of the scenes with the two of them all alone in a hotel room NOT acting like lovers. Even if they were fooling around during the time period we didn't see, they certainly wouldn't have been pretending that they weren't lovers when NOBODY else was around. For whose sake would they have acted like they were just there for her English lessons?

You said that she was going to say something else, and implied that it would have revealed that she had cheated on him. So you seem to be suggesting that she would have said something to the effect of, "I have never been with another man, but I have been with another man." That ludicrous notion is on top of the fact that she had just told him, with no other apparent or even suggested motive than to be honest with him, that their doctor believed that he was incapable of fathering children. If she were lying, there'd be no possible reason for her to tell him that while trying to convince him that she had not been unfaithful.

I really can't believe I'm having this conversation. Much more interesting stuff about Henry Gale, esp how he knew there were 3 people.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> The entire span of the scenes with the two of them all alone in a hotel room NOT acting like lovers. _(...)_ For whose sake would they have acted like they were just there for her English lessons?


Maybe they weren't lovers _per se_, but she could have been paying for the lessons with sexual favors...their behavior wouldn't be out of line for that scenario.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

astrohip said:


> Excellent catch! :up:
> 
> Not only does it not make sense that Henry Other Gale would know there are three out looking, but Jack & Locke didn't question it either. How do *they* know three went out? They didn't even know about the map in the first place?


Well, this thread was over 100 posts before someone pointed that out, so it's plausible that Jack and Locke wouldn't have made that catch right away, either.

I'm not convinced one way or the other about his otherhood. Even if his balloon story is true, he probably realizes he's going to have a very difficult time proving a negative. As a few people have pointed out, even if they find his wife and/or the balloon, it doesn't prove his story. We already know he's playing divide-and-conquer with Jack and Locke, but given his situation, he could very well feel like he's not going to be able to convince them (if he's telling the truth) and needs to make a move so that they don't decide that they just can't take a chance.

Whether he's lying or not, I also think that he senses something in Jack and Locke that if he can tilt either one of them in either direction (believing him or doubting him), that the other one will, for no other reason than to oppose the other, choose to believe his story. The more one doubts him, the more the other one will believe him and vice versa, until they're on polar opposite sides. And he figures his chances are good that they won't kill him or keep him locked up or torture him if they're in such disagreement over it. Guy's probably a hell of a poker player.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Maybe they weren't lovers _per se_, but she could have been paying for the lessons with sexual favors...their behavior wouldn't be out of line for that scenario.


Right, cause they were so poor.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Amnesia said:


> Maybe they weren't lovers _per se_, but she could have been paying for the lessons with sexual favors...their behavior wouldn't be out of line for that scenario.


And even if they weren't at the point we saw them, we don't know what may have happened at some later time.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> Right, cause they were so poor.


"Poor"? What do you mean? Neither was poor.

Sun couldn't take the risk of her husband finding out she was taking English lessons. Perhaps baldie had his own reasons for not wanting to pay for sex. They each ahd something to hide and so neither would inform on the other.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hefe said:


> And even if they weren't at the point we saw them, we don't know what may have happened at some later time.


I can't recall any other story line where they made us think that they'd come full circle, but left something out that would change it altogether, without making it absolutely clear that there's something we'll have to wait to be revealed, and give us some clues to foster speculation.


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## fregienj (Feb 1, 2005)

There's an older Diary entry where the writer says that Locke made a work list for people to go in and push the button. So this makes it sound like everyone has been to the hatch and has been on button duty. I agree that it is just plain weird that they don't show more people in there.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Egypt (and probably a few other surrounding Arab countries) is usually referred to as a "Middle-East" country. It's in Africa.


Maybe this is why the rest of the World hates Americans....we've been referring to them all as the wrong ethnicity this whole time!

Almost like a global group of 'Others' that we all don't trust....


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> "Poor"? What do you mean? Neither was poor.
> 
> Sun couldn't take the risk of her husband finding out she was taking English lessons. Perhaps baldie had his own reasons for not wanting to pay for sex. They each ahd something to hide and so neither would inform on the other.


Then I guess you're right, Sun was whoring herself out. We never saw it not happen, so it must be true.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

So what was Sayid and Charlie disassembling? Or were they building something? Was that suppose to be the torn up raft they set sail on?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

For some reason, and this makes no sense, I believe they said something about a dining room table or something like that??!


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

Hefe - do you have the transcript where Henry mentioned that the others would trade the "3" for him? Did he say "3"??


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## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

astrohip said:


> Excellent catch! :up:
> 
> Not only does it not make sense that Henry Other Gale would know there are three out looking, but Jack & Locke didn't question it either. How do *they* know three went out? They didn't even know about the map in the first place?


Actually, the number of people out looking for his balloon isn't mentioned, I just checked the dialog. It would have been a big plot point if he had, though.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Then I guess you're right, Sun was whoring herself out. We never saw it not happen, so it must be true.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Paperboy2003 said:


> For some reason, and this makes no sense, I believe they said something about a dining room table or something like that??!


I assumed either Sayid was building himself a house, or maybe more likely they were building a common house.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Egypt (and probably a few other surrounding Arab countries) is usually referred to as a "Middle-East" country. It's in Africa.


People from Egypt would have been classified as "African" on the documentation to which I was referring.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

twincaminferno said:


> Let me ask you this....why hasnt Kate told anyone about what she found in the medical area that they found?? Its like the Lost people keep each other in the dark about everything. Unless she told certain people and we werent notified.


She could have told them off-camera, and it will not be brought up until a later episode. Even if they were told, what would they have done with that knowledge that would have been of consequence in the episodes after she found it?

I think the writers have treated other things like this in this manner (mentioning later how people on the island know about something another character hasn't brought up onscreen).


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bdlucas said:


> I assumed either Sayid was building himself a house, or maybe more likely they were building a common house.


Charlie said something to the effect of "These are too long!" and Sayid answered something like "We'll take two and cut them in half and they'll be perfect for a dining table".

I just figured they're trying to get some furniture built... no big deal.

Speaking (sort of) of this, and I might've brought this up before, I think it's interesting to think how a show like "Lost" would have been treated pre-Survivor. We all have a fairly good idea of how people transform and what their chores are in a situation like this (although artificial) thanks to seeing it so much on Survivor. 

The best example, Hurley's lack of weight loss bothers me greatly. Three weeks into "Survivor" he would've lost a lot more than he has on this show... and the lame explanation of a few bites of junk food doesn't do much.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

MickeS said:


> She could have told them off-camera, and it will not be brought up until a later episode. Even if they were told, what would they have done with that knowledge that would have been of consequence in the episodes after she found it?
> 
> I think the writers have treated other things like this in this manner (mentioning later how people on the island know about something another character hasn't brought up onscreen).


Well obviously she's taken possession of everything and is having sex with people in exchange for the medical items.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To REALLY nitpick, Europe and Asia are on the same landmass, and the border between them is not set in stone (so to speak). Usually, it's divided into East Asia, Southeast Asia (Viet Nam etc.), Central Asia (Tibet, Mongolia, etc.), South Asia (India etc.), the Middle East (Iraq, Israel, etc.), and Europe (with its own little subdivisions).
> 
> I've never heard Iraqis called Asian.


I thought Iraqis were more likely to be Aryan.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> That ludicrous notion is on top of the fact that she had just told him, with no other apparent or even suggested motive than to be honest with him, that their doctor believed that he was incapable of fathering children. If she were lying, there'd be no possible reason for her to tell him that while trying to convince him that she had not been unfaithful.


As I mentioned in a previous post, Sun's revealing to Jin that it was *HIM* and not her who was sterile is the strongest evidence, IMHO, that she has been 100% faithful to him.

If she cheated, telling Jin that he cannot father children dramatically puts her under suspicion of cheating. She wouldn't say something to fuel his suspicion that she cheated on him if she had cheated. On the contrary, she would aggressively hide anything that might even be construed as evidence of her cheating.

It is this that cinches it for me, she *did not* cheat on Jin.

(In other words, I agree with you totally on this point.  )

Now if the "others" somehow managed to seripticiously(sp?) inseminate her, that could be something else altogether...


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

And of course, Jin may not have been truly infertile.
He simply could have had a low (but not nonexistant) sperm count.
He also could have been stressed out at the time of the test.
Certainly he's more relaxed now then before.
Or the lab could have made a mistake.
Or the doctor's a quack.

Oooooorrrrrrrr, he could have lied twice to Sun. Possibly on the orders of Sun's father hoping that Sun would leave Jin.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

MickeS said:


> The best example, Hurley's lack of weight loss bothers me greatly. Three weeks into "Survivor" he would've lost a lot more than he has on this show... and the lame explanation of a few bites of junk food doesn't do much.


If a guy started at ~400 lbs, would you even _see a difference_ in 50 days, even if he almost totally fasted during that time?

I don't think so.

To me, this is a non-issue, and his hoarding of food is more comic relief than anything.

Furthermore, IIRC, Jorge Garcia has said that he has in fact lost about 30 lbs since the pilot episode. I about 50 days, that would be about right (and again, hardly noticeable on a ~400 lb dude).


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> People from Egypt would have been classified as "African" on the documentation to which I was referring.


Makes sense, sounds like whoever set that up got their geography right. What I was pointing out was that "Middle-east" seems to be the term that really mucks things up. It overlaps parts of Asia and Africa, but not really the part of Asia that people usually think of when they say "Asian" people when they're thinking of people referred to as "Oriental."

I really didn't mean to take this thread off on this tangent. Could have been worse I guess, someone could have referred to Mr. Eko as "African-American."


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## JamesB (Nov 19, 2004)

thenightfly42 said:


> C'mon, the father is obvious. You only need two lines from Sun (paraphrased):
> 
> * (to Jin): I have been with no other man.
> * (to Kate): Thank you for not asking why you are here with me, not Jin.
> ...


 The reason Sayid and the other Iraqis do not speak Arabic is because Sayid does not speak Arabic. My wife is Lebanese, and fluent in Arabic. The one time Syaid spoke Arabic she said his Arabic is pitiful. FYI.

On a different note, here is another vote for Sun cheating.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

JamesB said:


> The reason Sayid and the other Iraqis do not speak Arabic is because Sayid does not speak Arabic. My wife is Lebanese, and fluent in Arabic. The one time Syaid spoke Arabic she said his Arabic is pitiful. FYI.


Makes sense. Naveen Andrews was born in London, and is of Indian origin. Which makes him clearly Asian, of course.


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## bro1ncos (Aug 2, 2004)

Isn't it obvious that the father of Sun's baby is Ethan Rom. She hasn't been with another man, she was with "Other Man."


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bdlucas said:


> Makes sense. Naveen Andrews was born in London, and is of Indian origin. Which makes him clearly Asian, of course.


Indian Indian or American Indian?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> We never saw it not happen, so it must be true.


Did you even read my original post on this topic (#142)? See how I use "maybe" and "could have"? That should be an indication to you that it's a possible scenario and not one that I necessarily believe to be the truth. Try to read more carefully in the future.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

JamesB said:


> The reason Sayid and the other Iraqis do not speak Arabic is because Sayid does not speak Arabic. My wife is Lebanese, and fluent in Arabic. The one time Syaid spoke Arabic she said his Arabic is pitiful. FYI.


I think the point is why didn't they speak their native language, while the Koreans are allowed to speak Korean... Which is a very legitimate question.

Arabic, Persian, Farsi, Chinese, Korean..... All Asians look the same and speak the same language  (That's a big J/K)

Edit: never mind, again.. I'm am slow on the uptake this am... I get it, Naveen Andrews can't speak Arabic... not the character Sayid... 
Edit: which brings to mind another point, Daniel Dae Kim is not fluent in Korean, and he said he has to work really hard to memorize his lines in Korean. His accent is pretty good, but when you compare him to all the other Koreans, there is a big difference. Far from pitiful, though. He pulls it off. I'm Korean, btw.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

goMO said:


> Hefe - do you have the transcript where Henry mentioned that the others would trade the "3" for him? Did he say "3"??


I wanted to make sure that I didn't smeek. I was wondering this too. I am at work so I can't check, but I thought he said "trade your PEOPLE for me."


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> Indian Indian or American Indian?


From India. Of course if he were American Indian he'd still be Asian, but I digress


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> As I mentioned in a previous post, Sun's revealing to Jin that it was *HIM* and not her who was sterile is the strongest evidence, IMHO, that she has been 100% faithful to him.
> 
> If she cheated, telling Jin that he cannot father children dramatically puts her under suspicion of cheating. She wouldn't say something to fuel his suspicion that she cheated on him if she had cheated. On the contrary, she would aggressively hide anything that might even be construed as evidence of her cheating.
> 
> ...


She did cheat on him and it is JACK'S baby!!! When he told her to tell the whole truth, he said it very knowingly.... 

(Honestly, I am in the camp that she hasn't cheated.)


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## vickerto (May 3, 2004)

Cboath said:



> I wanted to make sure that I didn't smeek. I was wondering this too. I am at work so I can't check, but I thought he said "trade your PEOPLE for me."


He doesn't say 3. He says 'your friends':
http://abc.go.com/fsp/index.html?channel=Lost

For anyone interested in the backwards audio when Jin is trying to understand Sawyer and Bernard, here's the transcript:

sawyer - I've got my sources
bernard - why don't you tell him?
sawyer - not my place
bernard - well you should tell him
sawyer - hell no. Let sunshine tell him.

From here:
http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11690


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Did you even read my original post on this topic (#142)? See how I use "maybe" and "could have"? That should be an indication to you that it's a possible scenario and not one that I necessarily believe to be the truth. Try to read more carefully in the future.


Oh I read it that way, but even with those qualifiers, the suggestion makes no sense whatsoever (in my admittedly not-so-humble opinion on this topic). Like I said, she _could have_ killed him after the last scene in which we saw them together, but it makes absolutely no sense to think that either, given everything else we know.

When they want us to speculate about things, they don't paint a complete picture that makes perfect sense and then expect us to come up with things that "could have" happened for no other reason than the fact that they didn't show us every minute of every day of the person's life. They leave things out that we notice (sometimes not immediately obvious, but eventually), and plant clues suggesting that things are very likely not what they seem. Then they leave open various possibilities, but they don't limit those possibilities to things that are so completely out of character for whoever it is we're talking about, Sun in this case.


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## El Gabito (Mar 11, 2004)

in regards to preview (US and CAN):



Spoiler



It almost seems logical to me that this is a delivery. Some lady comes on the loudspeaker counting down, you go to your designated room, blast doors shut, people enter, drop off supplies, leave, blast doors open.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bdlucas said:


> From India. Of course if he were American Indian he'd still be Asian, *but I digress*


That was the plan


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

jeff125va said:


> There was no hint. You might speculate something, but they didn't hint at it. I might speculate that she killed him after they cut the scene, that doesn't mean they hinted at it.


Speculate? No hint? Baldy asked Sun to stay in Korea for him. You're right. That's not hinting, that's _telegraphing._


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## fregienj (Feb 1, 2005)

I was surprised that AL went off into the jungle without big, bad Mr. Eko to protect her. Sure she had Syaid along, but she had really relied on Mr. Eko in the past to protect them in the jungle. He could always "sense" when the others were nearby.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Someone mentioned what the bald guy was getting out of teaching Sun English. If you forgot their backstory, they were set up for a possible arranged marriage. They really hit it off and Sun liked him a lot. He revealed he was running away to America to be with a girl he loved. She accepted this and they became friends. I just assumed their friendship continued after he got back from America. I'm in the Sun was faithful camp.


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## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

bdlucas said:


> That's why I think it was purely a nod to the audience, i.e. the online chatter. As if to say "it's just a TV show". Even Shakespeare occasionally had his actors step out of character and speak to the audience.


I disagree. The laundry scene was a throw away comment between two "Losties", which seemed to be just for the audience.

However, I think because Henry is a suspected "Other", an out-of-character conversation would be out of place, especially in front of John and Jack. I think Henry's comment makes it seem like he knows the answer. It's like he saying "If I wasn't a Dharma employee, but a castaway like you guys, I would be asking questions..."


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

El Gabito said:


> in regards to preview (US and CAN):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Intriguing theory, seriously.

Also: Hey two new Lost's in as many weeks! Has that even happened yet in 2006?


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

My wife had an interesting theory about Henry's balloon story.

She was thinking that ALL of the others had that same story, so if they were caught, they used that story. Then, the others monitor this balloon area and when they see people looking for it, they know that one of their own was caught (not that they wouldn't already know, seeing as how they seem to be monitoring things). This would then tell them they need to catch these people and and trade for one of theirs back. I found it quite interesting and thought that I would throw it out there.

As for the inconsistencies in the use of sub-titles I would assume it has to do with what languages the character speaks. In the case of Sun and Jin, Jin doesn't speak any english and he can't come out of character for that, so they sub-title. Even in last night's episode, Sun and baldy spoke in english for part of their flashback - because their characters could. When Sayid has a flashback we know his character speaks english and so do most of the people he is interacting with. When he speaks to other characters that can't speak english, he speaks in their language with sub titles.

Bryan


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> Also: Hey two new Lost's in as many weeks! Has that even happened yet in 2006?


[sarcasm hat on]
Dude - you obviously don't understand how TV seasons work and the limited amount of available episodes to show.

It's been like this for years - you just need to accept that fact and quit complaining.
[/sarcasm hat off]

Sorry - I had to do that before devdogaz comes in here and posts his explanation for the millionth time. Yes we know it's been like this forever, but it doesn't mean we have to like it and that it still makes sense. Cable companies have been bundling channels for years, now that people are complaining and it's getting more exposure, look what's happening! 

Bryan


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

bacevedo said:


> As for the inconsistencies in the use of sub-titles I would assume it has to do with what languages the character speaks. In the case of Sun and Jin, Jin doesn't speak any english and he can't come out of character for that, so they sub-title. Even in last night's episode, Sun and baldy spoke in english for part of their flashback - because their characters could. When Sayid has a flashback we know his character speaks english and so do most of the people he is interacting with. When he speaks to other characters that can't speak english, he speaks in their language with sub titles.
> 
> Bryan


In one of the early Sayid episodes last season, I believe the first one where he has to torture/kill his girlfriend, it was set in Iraq, and they started out speaking Arabic/Persian/Farsi/whatever, then they smoothly transitioned to English, as if the show was tired of doing subtitles and turned on our SAP on the TV. This is a drastic difference from how they handle the Korea scenes. This was explained by someone that the fact that Naveen Andrews doesn't speak Arabic/Persian/Farsi/whatever very well made it easier to do it in English.


----------



## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Ah yes - I forgot about that episode where they switched languages in the middle. But, that was also a flashback, so it's not like it will greatly impact the feeling of Sayid on the island. For Jin and Sun, the writers purposely leave out sub-titles when Jin and Sun are speaking around other people that don't speak Korean to make the viewers feel as confused and lost as everyone else.

I think Jin and Sun are always speaking in Korean because of the feeling that they want on the island for Jin's character. If they kept switching him in and out of Korean it would be very distracting. For Sayid it was like a one time deal.

Bryan


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

bacevedo said:


> For Jin and Sun, the writers purposely leave out sub-titles when Jin and Sun are speaking around other people that don't speak Korean to make the viewers feel as confused and lost as everyone else.
> 
> I think Jin and Sun are always speaking in Korean because of the feeling that they want on the island for Jin's character. If they kept switching him in and out of Korean it would be very distracting. For Sayid it was like a one time deal.
> 
> Bryan


Very nice point... I buy that totally...

Of course, if you understand Korean, I guess you lose out on the confusion effect.


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## Granny (Mar 29, 2005)

I'm in the no infidelity camp. I think the pained look on Sun's face was because she never really wanted to have kids, and certainly not now, lost on an island. I don't even think it has to be all that mysterious/miraculous that Jin's infertility was "cured". There is a sliding scale on that issue for men, involving not only sperm count, but also motility. And since it was never really discussed in detail by the cowardly doctor, even Sun does not have specific information.

As far as Gale being an Other, based on his little "what if" scenario, I am always dubious when something seems so obvious. It could just as easily be that he is tweaking Jack and John to get them going at each other - since AL dropped that information in his lap that they were preoccupied with one-up-manship. He is one cagey dude though.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

We need a standard catchphrase for devdogaz's posts. Something like "Same as it ever was."

Greg


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Eh, he means well, and he's right. The continual complaining that preciptates the explanation are more annoying.


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## RedSpike (Mar 23, 2006)

chavez said:


> absolutely. the look on sun's face as they hugged after jin professed the 'miracle' said it all. she cheated. whether the baby is a result of that cheating, who knows?
> 
> the writers were really spinning wheels with this ep.


 I think Sun was going to tell him WHY she learned english and that she was planning on leaving him (at the airport in australia).

That would be part of "The Whole Truth".

I'm in the Sun was faithful camp.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

hefe said:


> Eh, he means well, and he's right. The continual complaining that preciptates the explanation are more annoying.


Sheesh! Look what I started! 

I agree with devdogaz on the rerun issue too.

I was making a joke.

Can't even make a joke around here!


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Regarding whether Sun was faithful, the writers were dropping hints left and right that there was sexual tension between her and baldie, but that they hadn't acted on it. Then there was the developing story on the island where Sun thought she was pregnant. Then you find out she is pregnant, then you find out Jin was infertile. The viewers at this point are mostly thinking the same thing: baldie got her pregnant. I was thinking that very early in the show and as the show progressed there was more and more evidence that supported it.

Then the twist: she never slept with baldie. Woah! The baby is Jin's, happy ending. That was a twist, people. If you still believe she slept with him then I think what the writers were going for went right over *you're* head.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

bacevedo said:


> My wife had an interesting theory about Henry's balloon story.
> 
> She was thinking that ALL of the others had that same story, so if they were caught, they used that story. Then, the others monitor this balloon area and when they see people looking for it, they know that one of their own was caught (not that they wouldn't already know, seeing as how they seem to be monitoring things). This would then tell them they need to catch these people and and trade for one of theirs back. I found it quite interesting and thought that I would throw it out there.


Heh. She cribbed that idea from


Spoiler



The Davinci Code


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DLiquid said:


> Then the twist: she never slept with baldie. Woah! The baby is Jin's, happy ending. That was a twist, people. If you still believe she slept with him then I think what the writers were going for went right over *you're* head.


Well, if YOU believe that the look she gave at the end wasn't intended to cast doubt on your interpretation, than you just haven't watched enough television!


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, if YOU believe that the look she gave at the end wasn't intended to cast doubt on your interpretation, than you just haven't watched enough television!


I'll have to re-watch that part. I don't even remember the look *your* talking about so I may have looked away from the screen for a second.


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

bdlucas said:


> I think they sent him to spy. He sent the survivors off to be kidnapped as his exit strategy.


I was thinking the same thing. Specifically, he seemed interested in whether or not they knew what the stuff in the hatch was. My guess is maybe the others captured Desmond, Desmond blabbered on about the hatch, they decided they needed to look into this hatch and find out whats its all about, so they send out Gale to get captured and find out exactly what's in it and what they know about it.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

My take on the whole Sun thing is that in her culture even THINKING about committing adultery would make her feel guilty.

She could just as easily have given that look for thinking about baldy the wrong way, not necessarily having done anything wrong.

As for the balloon thing, since Henry Gale has all the Wizard of Oz connotations, I'm wondering if they find the balloon, they might give Gale a reprieve until somebody might find a Wizard Of Oz book down in the hatch somewhere and notice the name, and put 2+2 together.

-smak-


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## bottomsup (Mar 3, 2006)

smak said:


> they might give Gale a reprieve until somebody might find a Wizard Of Oz book down in the hatch somewhere and notice the name, and put 2+2 together.
> 
> -smak-


Amen to that.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> though the old Charlie came out a bit when he was bringing back the fruit for breakfast.


After that line my wife and I looked at each other and said "but... what about _second_ breakfast?!?"


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

RBlount said:


> Let's put the obvious option out there? Could the pregnency test be Kate's? Sun asked Kate if she (Kate) ever needed to use a pregnency test and Kate said (sheepishly) "Yes".


I dunno... remember Kate was on the plane as a prisoner of a marshal, after having been captured 'way out in the outback. Seems unlikely that she'd be carrying a pregnancy test--where could she have gotten it? Plus, how could she have gotten pregnant? Wasn't she staying with a much older man?

Not impossible, I suppose, but I don't buy it.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

smak said:


> As for the balloon thing, since Henry Gale has all the Wizard of Oz connotations, I'm wondering if they find the balloon, they might give Gale a reprieve until somebody might find a Wizard Of Oz book down in the hatch somewhere and notice the name, and put 2+2 together.


But then they would also notice the book by Mark Twain, you know the one about Tom SAWYER and his scams, or even the book about LOCKE the philospher or CHARLIE and the chocolate factory (yes, I think Charlie is a Loompa umpa in disguise!) or even the story of Katherine the Great and her horse!!! 

Gosh I love this show!!!


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

DLiquid said:


> Regarding whether Sun was faithful, the writers were dropping hints left and right that there was sexual tension between her and baldie, but that they hadn't acted on it. Then there was the developing story on the island where Sun thought she was pregnant. Then you find out she is pregnant, then you find out Jin was infertile. The viewers at this point are mostly thinking the same thing: baldie got her pregnant. I was thinking that very early in the show and as the show progressed there was more and more evidence that supported it.
> 
> Then the twist: she never slept with baldie. Woah! The baby is Jin's, happy ending. That was a twist, people. If you still believe she slept with him then I think what the writers were going for went right over *you're* head.





DLiquid said:


> I'll have to re-watch that part. I don't even remember the look *your* talking about so I may have looked away from the screen for a second.


Why are you *bolding* your spelling errors?


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

betts4 said:


> the story of Katherine the Great and her horse!!!


  That gives a whole new meaning to Sawyer asking Kate if she "knew" the horse on the island.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

balboa dave said:


> Why are you *bolding* your spelling errors?


A play on the show's misuse of you're vs your in a Corean subtitle.


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

philw1776 said:


> A play on the show's misuse of you're vs your in a Corean subtitle.


of course <slaps head>


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

NoThru22 said:


> Speculate? No hint? Baldy asked Sun to stay in Korea for him. You're right. That's not hinting, that's _telegraphing._


Well, he didn't really ask, but close enough I guess. So to summarize your theory: Baldy suggests that running away to America won't solve all of her problems and makes a veiled implication that he has feelings for her, and secretly hopes that if she leaves Jin, that it be for him. She nearly goes through with her plan to run away to America, but changes her mind at the last minute because she realizes how much she truly loves her husband. And you conclude from all that that they obviously want us to believe that they had an affair some time in between, she got pregnant with his kid, then decided to run away to America anyway but then at the last minute she changes her mind and decides to stay with Jin after all.

Yeah, that must be it.


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## spartanstew (Feb 24, 2002)

Granny said:


> I'm in the no infidelity camp. I think the pained look on Sun's face was because she never really wanted to have kids, and certainly not now, lost on an island.


I'm also in the no infidelity camp, but I thought Sun's look said "thank god he's reacting this way and didn't get mad and beat the crap out of me". We saw his temper in the doctors office and even the doctor was afraid to tell him he was sterile. That conversation could have went in one of many different directions.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

philw1776 said:


> A play on the show's misuse of you're vs your in a Corean subtitle.


Don't you mean a *Corean* subtitle?


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

philw1776 said:


> A play on the show's misuse of you're vs your


Yes, it was my not so subtle protest of the spelling error on the show.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DLiquid said:


> Yes, it was my not so subtle protest of the spelling error on the show.


Well, I think your just covering up you're bad spelling.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

spartanstew said:


> I'm also in the no infidelity camp, but I thought Sun's look said "thank god he's reacting this way and didn't get mad and beat the crap out of me". We saw his temper in the doctors office and even the doctor was afraid to tell him he was sterile. That conversation could have went in one of many different directions.


Yeah, I saw relief in her expression too. Maybe "pained" at first, but her mouth was obscured by Jin's shoulder, then she tilted her head back and was smiling. Then she closed her eyes and lay her head on his shoulder, that's the part I very much interpreted as relief. Not only that he reacted the way he did, but that she had gotten something off her chest she'd been keeping secret for so long, i.e., "the whole truth."

And whoever was saying earlier that Jin interrupted her and she was about to say something else needs to watch the scene again. There was about a 10-15 second pause between her saying that she'd never been with another man, and him saying that it must be a miracle then. He did nothing that could possibly be considered an interruption.

Speaking of misremembering scenes, I also re-watched the end scene with Henry, Jack and Locke. He definitely never said anything about "three" people, but when someone here suggested that he had, I was thinking, "oh yeah, how _did_ he know that?" Funny how the mind works.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

madscientist said:


> After that line my wife and I looked at each other and said "but... what about _second_ breakfast?!?"


"I don't think he knows about second breakfast, Pip."

Sorry, I couldn't help it.


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## Juaru5 (Dec 12, 2002)

Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will!). In his interview with Sayid, didn't balloon boy say that he didn't know where he buried his wife, then make a big deal out of knowing where his wife is buried while speaking to Anna?

Just wondering.

John (not Jon) Arthur

www.JonRocket.com


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, I think your just covering up you're bad spelling.


LOL :up:


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Juaru5 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will!). In his interview with Sayid, didn't balloon boy say that he didn't know where he buried his wife, then make a big deal out of knowing where his wife is buried while speaking to Anna?


I thought he didn't know how many shovel-fulls of dirt he had to use to bury her. And Sayid said if he had actually buried someone he loved, he would remember every single shovel.

But I may be only remembering half of it.


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## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> I thought he didn't know how many shovel-fulls of dirt he had to use to bury her. And Sayid said if he had actually buried someone he loved, he would remember every single shovel.
> 
> But I may be only remembering half of it.


The transcripts are easy to find, you don't have to wait for Hefe:


> SAYID: Where is she buried?
> 
> GALE: What?
> 
> ...


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## bigrig (Jul 1, 2004)

I liked Charlie holding the gun out to Ana Lucia, and then <psyche!> giving it to Sayid. 

Matt


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

thenightfly42 said:


> The transcripts are easy to find, you don't have to wait for Hefe:


Thanks. I can't be in the Lost thread all day. There's a lot of threads, and only one me.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I rewatched the show last night. The scene where Sun comes clean to Jin... obviously her facial expressions are what's really up for debate. I saw relief mixed with fear, but I think the fear comes from the prospect of having a baby on the island. It's pretty much common knowledge that the island is not the safest place for a baby... just ask Claire and Danielle. I still believe she was telling Jin the truth. As others have said, why would she bother telling him that the doctor lied about who was unable to have children and open up the debate about who the father might be?


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## Juaru5 (Dec 12, 2002)

Donbadabon said:


> I thought he didn't know how many shovel-fulls of dirt he had to use to bury her. And Sayid said if he had actually buried someone he loved, he would remember every single shovel.
> 
> But I may be only remembering half of it.


You are correct. Thanks for helping me remember.

A co-worker and I were discussing it and we couldn't remember what was said. I told him I knew the people to ask. You didn't disappoint.

Thanks!

John (not Jon) Arthur

www.JonRocket.com


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

For those who believe everything on LOST has a logical or scientific explanation, what do you think about Jin becoming fertile once on the island? How do you think this happened? Do you think there is a possibility the baby could be different than a normal baby?

It's also possible that Sun was impregnated by the Others. We know they want babies.

I think it's very interesting they would introduce a pregnancy when the birth would presumably be several seasons away. Do you think she will lose the baby? Will the fetus' growth be accelerated and lead to an early birth? I'm curious as to what the plan is there.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Maybe it was a change in diet. Maybe something he was eating or exposed to in his previous life isn't present now. Maybe it's a stress thing. Or a different kind of stress.

Maybe it's magic. 

(BTW, Sun was never with the Others)


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Or maybe the doctor was wrong... or maybe Jin stopped wearing briefs and switched to boxers... he also hasn't been in any jacuzzi's lately....


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

Maybe he was knocking out a few too many on his own and hasn't had the time or privacy (or access to crazy Korean porn) on the island to partake.


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

hefe said:


> (BTW, Sun was never with the Others)


Right, not that we've seen. When Charlie abducted her there was a time she was probably lying alone in the jungle, but that seems too recent for the conception. I realize the Others impregnating her is a long shot, since the viewers would cry foul if we were later shown that some spy-thers snuck into camp with a turkey baster during the early weeks on the island.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

We don't really know exactly what his diagnosis was. When the doctor told them it would be "impossible" for them to have children, we can't really rely on what he was saying. With the diagnosis he had made up about Sun, it may have in fact been impossible. But the reality for Jin may have been a _low_ sperm count and it was just highly unlikely, but not impossible, for him to impregnate her.

Just like with Locke's legs, we don't know that it wasn't something psychosomatic that was reversed by the trauma of the crash.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

nataylor said:


> Maybe he was knocking out a few too many on his own and hasn't had the time or privacy (or access to crazy Korean porn) on the island to partake.


I do realize you're joking, but I think the premise that is based on - that overindulgence reduces sperm count (at least to levels that would make him sterile) - is a myth.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

jeff125va said:


> I do realize you're joking, but I think the premise that is based on - that overindulgence reduces sperm count (at least to levels that would make him sterile) - is a myth.


Probably... I was just looking for a way to fit in the term "crazy Korean porn."


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Just like with Locke's legs, we don't know that it wasn't something psychosomatic that was reversed by the trauma of the crash.


Damon Lindelof has stated repeatedly in podcasts that Lost is a fantasy show (with a key inspiration being The Twilight Zone). So, while medically valid science may explain a few things (ie. why Claire could not remember escaping from the Others), for most of the 'big' puzzles - ie. How did _anyone_ survive that kind of plane crash? How is Locke able to use his legs? How is Jin able to father a child? - I'd argue that the island (which Lindelof describes as a character) is indeed the 'answer' to those questions.


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

nataylor said:


> Probably... I was just looking for a way to fit in the term "crazy Korean porn."


Hey, there's nothing crazy about it!


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Sorry to bring up the "possible affair" again. 

While I don't think Sun and Baldy did have an affair, I think it's silly of some people to claim that there were no hints given to point us in that direction. They clearly had feelings for one another. Sun told him she was running away to America. When he realized she was planning to leave Jin, the look on his face was one of "oh my gosh, are you telling me I've got a shot with you?" Again, while I don't believe that they did, I don't think it's nearly as "impossible" as some of you are claiming it to be.

Oh, and the reason there are occasional repeats and not new episodes every week is because the TV season is . . .


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> Oh, and the reason there are occasional repeats and not new episodes every week is because the TV season is . . .


Devdogaz - I have to take back my little shot at you in my post earlier. Most of the time I saw your diatribe it seemed like you were telling people to stop whining and just deal with it. But I saw in some of your other posts that you actually think the whole system is stupid, too, but you were just trying to fill people in. I just wanted to apologize for my un-called for remarks.

By the way - I like your avatar! Is that a picture of a real mouse?

Bryan


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

bacevedo said:


> Devdogaz - I have to take back my little shot at you in my post earlier. Most of the time I saw your diatribe it seemed like you were telling people to stop whining and just deal with it. But I saw in some of your other posts that you actually think the whole system is stupid, too, but you were just trying to fill people in. I just wanted to apologize for my un-called for remarks.
> 
> By the way - I like your avatar! Is that a picture of a real mouse?
> 
> Bryan


Thanks for saying that. I personally love the way 24 has decided to air their show and wish more networks would do the same, but I understand why they don't.

And yes, it is a real mouse: http://www.redelephants.com/~elephants/acatalog/Collegiate_University_Mouse.html


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## bacevedo (Oct 31, 2003)

Thanks for the link! Those are sweet!

I wish they had them in a wireless version!

I also think it's kind of funny that they use the ASU Baseball Cap logo as opposed to Sparky or the "official" asu logo.

When most people think of ASU, they think of Sparky (I know I do).

By they way - looking forward to the upcoming football season - Koetter has made some good hires with the new coaches. One of those coaches (defensive line coach) is moving into my neighborhood and will be my new neighbor (I gotta try and get the hook up for some tickets). My other neighbor was the guy who did fundraising for ASU athletics, but he is moving on to another job. (And in another bit of irony, another neighbor of mine is Joe Germaine - the quarterback for Ohio State that beat ASU in the Rose Bowl in '97 - our neighborhood has A LOT of ASU fans.)

Now back to your regurlaly scheduled Lost repeat, er episode.

Bryan


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## beldar (Feb 27, 2001)

jeff125va said:


> If the father is anyone but Jin, it's going to be pretty obvious since there are no other Asian men on the island.


There's at least one (East) Asian-appearing male survivor in the background of some scenes. I don't think he's ever had a line, but who knows what happens at night?

There's lots of biracial kids out there who don't look biracial, especially when they're infants.

As for where "Asia" is, the Asian Football Confederation includes these regions:

West Asia: Bahrain, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

Central & South Asia: Afghanistan*, Bangladesh*, Bhutan*, India*, IR Iran, Kyrgyzstan, Nepal*, Pakistan*, Sri Lanka*, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

East Asia: China PR, Chinese Taipei, DPR Korea, Guam, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea Republic, Macau and Mongolia.

Asean: Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Maldives Republic*, Myanmar, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Timor Leste and Vietnam.

More info here.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

nataylor said:


> Probably... I was just looking for a way to fit in the term "crazy Korean porn."


Easy now... The Japanese are the ones with the crazy porn...

Us Koreans like regular porn...


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> Sorry to bring up the "possible affair" again.
> 
> While I don't think Sun and Baldy did have an affair, I think it's silly of some people to claim that there were no hints given to point us in that direction. They clearly had feelings for one another. Sun told him she was running away to America. When he realized she was planning to leave Jin, the look on his face was one of "oh my gosh, are you telling me I've got a shot with you?" Again, while I don't believe that they did, I don't think it's nearly as "impossible" as some of you are claiming it to be.
> 
> Oh, and the reason there are occasional repeats and not new episodes every week is because the TV season is . . .


Yeah, I'd love to let it die too, but...

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I think the point some of the people you're referring to isn't that _during the episode_ they weren't hinting that it might go that way, but that after having seen the whole episode, those hints have to be taken in that full context. I, for one, never meant to suggest that they weren't trying to lead us to believe that something might happen between them, just that by the end of the episode, they had made it perfectly clear that nothing did.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

beldar said:


> There's at least one (East) Asian-appearing male survivor in the background of some scenes. I don't think he's ever had a line, but who knows what happens at night?


Please, don't encourage them.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hanumang said:


> Damon Lindelof has stated repeatedly in podcasts that Lost is a fantasy show (with a key inspiration being The Twilight Zone). So, while medically valid science may explain a few things (ie. why Claire could not remember escaping from the Others), for most of the 'big' puzzles - ie. How did _anyone_ survive that kind of plane crash? How is Locke able to use his legs? How is Jin able to father a child? - I'd argue that the island (which Lindelof describes as a character) is indeed the 'answer' to those questions.


Yeah, that's possible. I was responding to the question posed to "those who believe everything on LOST has a logical or scientific explanation," so wasn't trying to debate it per se. To me, the one truly inexplicable thing was in the episode with Locke's vision of Boone saying Theresa falls up the stairs, Teresa falls down the stairs. Seeing him all bloody could be written off as coincidence, but the Theresa stuff I have no idea. And of course the Walt apparitions, no clue about those either. So strictly speaking, I'm not 100% in the "everything" camp, but I'm definitely a skeptic, and I think it makes the show more interesting. If things are just supernatural, I don't think it's as provocative. It's sorta just "magic" or whatever. I think looking for a logical explanation is much more intriguing. Just MHO.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> Yeah, that's possible. I was responding to the question posed to "those who believe everything on LOST has a logical or scientific explanation," so wasn't trying to debate it per se. To me, the one truly inexplicable thing was in the episode with Locke's vision of Boone saying Theresa falls up the stairs, Teresa falls down the stairs. Seeing him all bloody could be written off as coincidence, but the Theresa stuff I have no idea. And of course the Walt apparitions, no clue about those either. So strictly speaking, I'm not 100% in the "everything" camp, but I'm definitely a skeptic, and I think it makes the show more interesting. If things are just supernatural, I don't think it's as provocative. It's sorta just "magic" or whatever. I think looking for a logical explanation is much more intriguing. Just MHO.


I've said this before.

Damon Lindelof has said that there is a _logical_ explanation for everything that it happening. I do not believe he used the word "scientific". (I'm sure someone will come up with a transcript if I'm mistaken.) He did state categorically that the explanation is not "religious" (they're not in purgatory). This still leaves room for certian explanations beyond traditional science.

Not so sure about Lindelof, but I'm convinced, based on his other work, that J. J. Abrams would be inclined to lump certain "paranormal" or "superscientific" explanations into the "logical" category.

Note that according to the "orientation" film, as well as some items on the Hanso Foundation website, Darhma is involved is studies such as "Parapsychology" and "Life Extension". Not exactly bedrock science concepts.

I'm now pretty solidly in the camp that believes that the activities of Darhma, past or present, are somehow the explanation to all the unexplainable and mysterious things going on on the island. Some of these activities might delve into the "paranormal".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Damon Lindelof has said that there is a _logical_ explanation for everything that it happening.


I believe he was a bit ambiguous, though--he never said that the "logical" explanation was necessarily the correct one.


----------



## Crrink (Sep 3, 2002)

Funny reading those of you who are getting a real attitude about the whole Sun cheating thing. It would be one thing if the episode had given us any concrete evidence either way, but since it didn't, I think the ... um... level of intensity is misplaced. 

The bald guy was getting *something* in return from Sun. He mentioned their "arrangement." Maybe the writers know what this is, maybe they haven't decided yet, maybe they left that part out intentionally, but they did leave that part out. Since nobody knows what he was getting out of the deal speculating that it was something sexual in nature is not only reasonable, but a big TV cliche anyway. 

Add to that his comment about not asking Sun to stay in Korea for Jin (implying she stay for someone/something else, which reasonable people might assume was a reference to himself) and you certainly have plenty of reason to doubt Sun's "I haven't been steppin' out on you" statement. 

It would be just like this show to have Jin find out about baldy, assume that he'd been lied to, do something crazy, and then find out that Sun was telling the truth and that she wasn't sleeping with Baldy, she was giving him cooking lessons or something like that. 

Anyway, the evidence is far from conclusive, so have fun with the spirited debate, but if I were you guys, I'd check the "I'm obviously right" attitude. It could end up being very embarrassing later on


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

[attitude]She wasn't cheating.[/attitude]

[big attitude]It was obvious.[/big attitude]



At least not during the time of the flashbacks that we saw. Their dialogue and body language makes little sense if read with that belief.

She wasn't trading sex for english lessons. If anyone thinks that, then all they need to do is rewatch season one to be reminded the kind of character Sun is (and especially WAS) to see that that's just not possible.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

Chibbie said:


> That comment didn't really make any sense to me.
> 
> Who are they going to ask? Henry? It's not like there is an "Other" hotline they can call and ask questions anytime they want. I think they have tried to figure out as much as they can since they've been there - opening the hatch, watching the film, etc.
> 
> In fact, the only opportunity they have had to ask any questions with a someone they knew for sure was an "Other" was the Mr. Friendly hostage situation, which wasn't exactly the right time to talk about cereal expiration dates.


Can someone please tell me why they don't ask any current event questions? This bugged me in "The Other 48 Days" and it bugged me in this episode. It wouldn't prove innocence, by any stretch, but it might prove guilt.

Let's say Henry says he crash landed in 2000. How about they ask him who the President of the US was? How about they ask him about Minneapolis a little more. There are 40+ people on that island, I bet someone knows a little something about the area. Sure, maybe he really is from MN and maybe he's able to keep apprised of current events despite being on the island for a long time. But it's worth asking, no??


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

The diarist  writes:


> I Confronted Locke Today And Demanded To Be
> Let Into The Armory To See My Brother. But
> All Locke Continues To Do Is Deny His Very
> Existence. I Can Tell By The Way He Looks
> ...


.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

Not much evidence to support this but......Sun could have been trying to get pregnant with medical intervention (without the fun of having an affair) before she left Jin. Why? Maybe at some point she thought it would patch things up between them? Perhaps part of the "arrangement" with Baldy was a sperm donation...In which case Sun told the truth, but not the whole truth.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

DVDerek said:


> Can someone please tell me why they don't ask any current event questions?


 The Others have access to the outside world. The lostaways don't have a reason to believe otherwise.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

teknikel said:


> Telling Jin he was infertile if she had an affair doesn't make sense unless she believes that when the baby comes it will be difficult to tell who the father is if the affair is with another Korean.
> 
> If she had the affair with Baldy. She can still get away with what she has said until appropriate DNA tests are performed.
> 
> ...


What if the baby is born bald? Then we'd know she was cheating with her English teacher.


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## yostmatt (Apr 6, 2005)

Gunnyman said:


> Aren't there new episodes of Idol 2-3 times a week?


I was talking about Lost. Seems like we are going to finally be getting some new eps.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

I wonder how why the diarist believes it's his/her brother in the hatch, especially


Spoiler



after this week's episode.


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## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

Skittles said:


> I noticed that too, actually. I was very surprised that managed to appear on a show like Lost.


 Reminded me of when Lockes mother told him he was immactually conceived and that big and good things were to come.
Whatever its worth I also recall seeing Lockes mother in 2 quick flashes when Boone was saying, "Thersa falls up the stairs, Thersa falls doon the stairs".


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