# Streaming services



## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

I am a longtime Tivo user, I have a Premier and Roamio.
I just dumped TWC/Charter over price increases, went through guided setup for my OTA antenna with which I get about 89 channels in LA. Not the end of the world. Any shows I actually watched I can get. One way or another.

I have DirectvNow on a FireTV, and that is working well for me.
I tried SlingTV but it lacked a couple of channels I wanted.
But as the October thread discussed, we have all these apps on Tivo!

There is a HULU app right now, and you might know that HULU showed a live tv service at CES in January. It will have a cloud DVR. This brings the question, will the HULU app support the live streaming service from HULU? We don't know.
I did request Tivo support for live streams from HULU, and they responded.
Amazon is also working on a live streaming service, and we do have an Amazon app.
Comcast supports ROKU now, for your full Comcast subscription. How long before Comcast tries to sell us all TV in non-Comcast areas? If the streaming is working that's where their growth is. Millions of new customers for them. And no cable card to try to get to work.
I am pretty sure Netflix is looking into live streaming too. We have a Netflix app.

I sent Tivo a request for an app for DirectvNow, especially with the ability to record from live.
That would be all I need.
I also requested it from DirectvNow. I don't know who writes those apps, Tivo can and maybe the other company can, but I don't know for sure.
I also requested a SlingTV app from Tivo.

So here we are, with a radical Tivo DVR, 10+ streaming apps, but the ones we need are just not there yet.

Clearly the Tivo company acknowledges the necessity for streaming on Tivo, with all the apps we already have. I do think the HULU app would have to be supported to work with what HULU sells, which if a month or so is live streaming. If that were recordable I would be in!

Tivo would be an excellent cord cutting solution, the Tivo company would have no problem selling boxes if the DirectvNow, SlingTV or HULU apps would replace cable completely and work in the guide. And be recordable.

With the way the market is changing if the Tivo company does not support about everything I mentioned they will have no customers at all in a couple of years. Their survival depends on it.
Maybe it doesn't matter anymore.​


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

TiVo's only control over apps is they can reject them. They can not force a company to develop an app for their platform. I guess TiVo could try to bribe them with money but I am guessing they can not afford to do that. 

Regarding recording the streams again that is 100% up to the company providing the streaming service. 

If TiVo had a user base in the millions they would have some leverage via user demand, but with a user base well under a million they are almost irrelevant in the eyes of streaming services. Heck an off brand smart TV has more leverage as they will sell more TVs in the next year than Total TiVos in existence.


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

Yeah, unless the Tivo company can create the App, and their survival may well depend on it.
They ought to scrupulously support everything they can, like ROKU does. Roku makes a great effort to support every darned thing, no matter how obscure.
It would take an effort, but clearly, making their product more rather than less valuable is important, unless the Tivo company is planning on going out of business soon.
I would say it will likely come to that unless they find a way to remain relevant.
If they do a good job they might find they have 5 million boxes in use in a few years. They might have to lower the monthly nut to get that to work for them.
I have friends who cut the cord and are using only antenna, and they balk at a $49 Tivo OTA with a $15 monthly fee. It's a lot for what it is.​


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> Regarding recording the streams again that is 100% up to the company providing the streaming service.


The great advantage of streaming is the content owners control, if they can prevent the recording of streaming they will. I can record any TiVo stream by using a Mini connected to an old Series 2 Humax with a DVD player that can take in a composite input from the Mini and record it, can be played back on any TiVo in the home, in SD only. I only use this system when one of my programs get interrupted so I miss the end, I then use VOD to record the program, and now can skip the ads.


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

lessd said:


> The great advantage of streaming is the content owners control, if they can prevent the recording of streaming they will. I can record any TiVo stream by using a Mini connected to an old Series 2 Humax with a DVD player that can take in a composite input from the Mini and record it, can be played back on any TiVo in the home, in SD only. I only use this system when one of my programs get interrupted so I miss the end, I then use VOD to record the program, and now can skip the ads.


Uh, yeah. The phobia continues. That's so stupid. 
Before there were video tape rentals, there was a story in the local paper, about a man who had gotten approval from the movie companies to sell some movies on video tape. He was local to me. I went over there, he had 5 or 6 titles and he was not allowed to rent them, only sell. They were on the order of $59. VHS tapes. I had a nice chat with him, spent no money and left.
Admittedly this was years ago but it shows the phobia those movie companies had and still have about people being able to control their media.
They finally got over it and they never made as much money as when there were video stores on every corner! They completely lost control of those movies, finally selling new movies on VHS for what, $5.99 at Target? Yep. And that was highly profitable to them. They made lots more than the box office. Lots more.

Ultimately this will not matter. This will all pass.

They are now preventing us from fast forwarding. That is a pita, I watched part of a show online, tried to watch the rest a day later, and had to watch the whole thing again. It's NEVER a good idea to inconvenience customers. Never.

What will work is letting the users take control of what they want to watch and how, and people really will pay! Much more than if they try to trip us up. Restrict us. That never works. That silly copy prevention in Tivo and Tivo desktop, that makes that whole thing worthless to me. Ridiculous.

Those movie companies and streaming services need to get their head out of their a$$ and realize there is nothing they can do, that preventing us from timeshifting is just gonna piss us off and cause us to get the shows off torrents and they will get *nothing.*


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

The new YouTube TV will not eliminate the usefulness of the Tivo, since the Tivo can record and fast forward live tv whether recorded or just delayed, which I doubt the YourTube TV streaming service will allow. They are gonna make you watch the ads.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Steevow said:


> cause us to get the shows off torrents and they will get *nothing.*


They are just another TV show. Missing it is no big deal, there is plenty of similar available via OTA TiVo or Netflix or commercial free Hulu, all which are pretty cheap.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Steevow said:


> I am a longtime Tivo user, I have a Premier and Roamio.
> I just dumped TWC/Charter over price increases, went through guided setup for my OTA antenna with which I get about 89 channels in LA. Not the end of the world. Any shows I actually watched I can get. One way or another.
> 
> I have DirectvNow on a FireTV, and that is working well for me.
> ...


When you state "LA" in relation to the number of OTA channels you receive, do you mean Los Angeles because if you do, you should be getting about _nearly_ 180 channels, or were you just counting the English language channels? I've found some of the foreign content to be OK.


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

Series3Sub said:


> When you state "LA" in relation to the number of OTA channels you receive, do you mean Los Angeles because if you do, you should be getting about _nearly_ 180 channels, or were you just counting the English language channels? I've found some of the foreign content to be OK.


what in the world are all those channels?

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

Series3Sub said:


> When you state "LA" in relation to the number of OTA channels you receive, do you mean Los Angeles because if you do, you should be getting about _nearly_ 180 channels, or were you just counting the English language channels? I've found some of the foreign content to be OK.


I just rescanned, I got 123 channels.
Lots of them are spanish, korean, and others. Some of the broadcast stations have really leveraged their subchannels. I am in Orange County, a suburban area of LA. 
With an old VHF/UHF antenna.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

CybrFyre said:


> what in the world are all those channels?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


Just about EVERY English OTA sub-channel service from Cozi to Justice to Decades to The Works (Huffington Post TV during the day) to, I mean all of it (even bizzare arcane niche channles) including NHK World (in English or English subtitled and great programming), First Nation's People (Amerincan Indian themed programming) and a lot more.

However, the majority are just about every foreign language you can think of with Armenian, Indian, Middle Eastern (LA has largest Iranian population outside Iran) etc., but the vast majority of foreign language services are either Spanish or in an Asian language from Chinese (different dialects), Vietnamese, Korean, etc. I think the Asian channels outnumber the Spanish language ones. And there are quite a few religious channels, usually some church preaching, etc. Some of the foreign channels do have some good content here and there. Still quite a lot of English language content to watch including the 4 public TV stations educational, creative or PBS provided sub-channels like 3 or 4 sub channels each.

Some services are mapped as having over 10 sub-channels. Now, while one can access channel 18.12--just as an example; I can't recall precisely which channels have more than 10 subs--clearly they are using more than one MAIN channel to host those services and then they are mapped as virtual channels anyway they want so that thsoe 14 services appear as part of one channel's offerings be it XX.14 or whatever.

Also, some audio only--radio services--are a few of the sub-channels, with various generes, but all foreign as per my last count. Yeah, as Steevow said, it seems LA locals are really leveraging and making money no the sub-channel biz, and there seems on shortage of programmers and services to fill them.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

Steevow said:


> I just rescanned, I got 123 channels.
> Lots of them are spanish, korean, and others. Some of the broadcast stations have really leveraged their subchannels. I am in Orange County, a suburban area of LA.
> With an old VHF/UHF antenna.


You are missing out on at least 50 channels or so, and you might be missing out on some English channels/programming out of the 50 or so. You might want to invest in a new antenna--a yagi, none of those new form square, etc. antennas; they do an awful job--or see if you can't get your antenna HIGHER. Most of OC, especially outside of the far south OC due to hills and canyons (Laguna Beach, Mission Viejo, San Juan Capistrano area can present challenges to getting a signal at all), is capable of getting good line of sight (as long as you are not up against or too close to any of our ubiquitos hills) and sufficient signal strength as you aren't really that far from Mt. Wilson and the power from most of the stations is strong enough for OC, but I've found a decent antenna to make a difference and especially HEIGHT. Your count should be at or near 180 channels. But I can tell you that when I am forced to re-scan, I lose a few, but then I re-scan again, and get them back. It seems the channle count always INCREASES. I've never seen LA get FEWER channels over time, just MORE.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

until they repack. 

I get 150+ here 10 miles from Mt Wilson. I watch 9 of them. I don't watch subchannels, the picture quality is way way too bad for almost all of them. I'd rather pay for Netflix and occasionally Hulu or Amazon Prime, they are cheap enough.


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

Series3Sub said:


> You are missing out on at least 50 channels or so, and you might be missing out on some English channels/programming out of the 50 or so. You might want to invest in a new antenna--a yagi, none of those new form square, etc. antennas; they do an awful job--or see if you can't get your antenna HIGHER.


I have an old Yagi, as I said. An aluminum antenna, about 10' long on the roof. I can almost see Mt. Wilson when the smog lifts. I doubt any other antenna would change anything. My terrestrial signal strength is about 89. 
I did notice when I scanned the Tivo found channels 6 -1 and up, but they are not coming in for me even though the Tivo found them. I called Tivo and asked them how a scan could find channels and they don't work, at all. They said "you won't get those where you are."


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

I turned off TWC. I sure wish DirectvNow integrated with my guide.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Series3Sub said:


> Just about EVERY English OTA sub-channel service from Cozi to Justice to Decades to The Works (Huffington Post TV during the day) to, I mean all of it (even bizzare arcane niche channles) including NHK World (in English or English subtitled and great programming), First Nation's People (Amerincan Indian themed programming) and a lot more.
> 
> However, the majority are just about every foreign language you can think of with Armenian, Indian, Middle Eastern (LA has largest Iranian population outside Iran) etc., but the vast majority of foreign language services are either Spanish or in an Asian language from Chinese (different dialects), Vietnamese, Korean, etc. I think the Asian channels outnumber the Spanish language ones. And there are quite a few religious channels, usually some church preaching, etc. Some of the foreign channels do have some good content here and there. Still quite a lot of English language content to watch including the 4 public TV stations educational, creative or PBS provided sub-channels like 3 or 4 sub channels each.
> 
> ...


All of them have guild data?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I have Tivo and the above streaming services. While it would be nice if the apps were on Tivo, I don't really care. All services are one button press away on my universal remote. Doesn't matter one bit to me if every app is on one device or 10 devices. Same ease of use. Rather than wait around possibly forever for Tivo to add every streaming service that comes along, spend $10 and get a universal remote. Then you won't care anymore and can subscribe to and watch whatever streaming service you like.

I also balk at paying Tivo $15/month for OTA, so I don't do it. I always get lifetime units.


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

Johncv said:


> All of them have guild data?


Yes, they do.


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I have Tivo and the above streaming services. While it would be nice if the apps were on Tivo, I don't really care. All services are one button press away on my universal remote. Doesn't matter one bit to me if every app is on one device or 10 devices. Same ease of use. Rather than wait around possibly forever for Tivo to add every streaming service that comes along, spend $10 and get a universal remote. Then you won't care anymore and can subscribe to and watch whatever streaming service you like.
> 
> I also balk at paying Tivo $15/month for OTA, so I don't do it. I always get lifetime units.


It does matter, actually. Clearly you barely use the capabilities of your Tivo in this scenario.
I have DirectvNow, and some channels are live only. That means if I want to see a show that airs at 9 PM that's when I have to watch it, and if the phone rings I miss part of the show. That happened last night.
Even if the phone does not ring I still pause live tv to go to the kitchen.
With the Tivo I can record from live TV and from cable, and I can schedule that recording, so when I watch it I can ff the commercials.
None of that works with any app.
That's why we need the streaming service to integrate with the Tivo. So we can use the capabilities we have. Apps are a workaround and do not at all replace the Tivo, except for things that are on demand only like Netflix and Hulu. But Hulu showed a live TV service in January. That needs to integrate with the Tivo guide too, so it can be used.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Steevow said:


> It does matter, actually. Clearly you barely use the capabilities of your Tivo in this scenario.
> I have DirectvNow, and some channels are live only. That means if I want to see a show that airs at 9 PM that's when I have to watch it, and if the phone rings I miss part of the show. That happened last night.
> Even if the phone does not ring I still pause live tv to go to the kitchen.
> With the Tivo I can record from live TV and from cable, and I can schedule that recording, so when I watch it I can ff the commercials.
> ...


I agree that integrated streaming would be great. Something like that for Tivo and Sling TV is in beta right now. It will be wonderful when it gets released.

I use my Tivo to its fullest potential, recording many hours of OTA, pausing live TV, skipping commercials. Most streaming apps completely suck at that, if they even have such capabilities at all, as you said.

My point is, the shortest path to a functional somewhat integrated solution today is an $8 universal remote. I don't think anybody wouldn't welcome the integration you're talking about. You can buy a universal remote today and get the next best thing.

However, I have to disagree with some of your points. PS Vue is pretty darn close to Tivo right now. You can pause live TV, schedule recordings, even skip some commercials.

As far as the poll goes, NO, I would not buy a Tivo even if it had integrated streaming since I can stream already with the $20 device I already have and get most of Tivo's functionality out of it (see the PS Vue features above). I would, however, love to see integrated streaming get added to the Tivo I already have. I could unplug my Fire stick and sell it on ebay.


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

mdavej said:


> I agree that integrated streaming would be great. Something like that for Tivo and Sling TV is in beta right now. It will be wonderful when it gets released.
> 
> I use my Tivo to its fullest potential, recording many hours of OTA, pausing live TV, skipping commercials. Most streaming apps completely suck at that, if they even have such capabilities at all, as you said.
> 
> ...


Clearly, the whole purpose of DirectvNow and any other streaming service is to replace your cable TV. I don't understand what a universal remote of any kind would change, and I have a big box of them right here, from RCA and Philips to Logitech Harmony.
It would not allow me to do anything I can't do at the moment. Maybe I'm missing something, please explain how a universal remote of any kind will allow me to replace my cable with any streaming service and ff the commercials.

I am not for minimizing the importance of DirectvNow replacing my cable subscription on my Tivo. That's what I wanted it for and that's still what I want it for. And that's what they made it for, and that's how they are selling it.

I find myself daily sitting here watching commercials for maxipads on live TV, and I sure don't want any more of that.

PSVue would not at all work for me since I need to be able to use my monthly service at two locations, and for some reason that is locked to my home network. Useless to me. They really ought to stop doing that.


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## Steevow (Nov 18, 2015)

mdavej said:


> As far as the poll goes, NO, I would not buy a Tivo even if it had integrated streaming since I can stream already with the $20 device I already have and get most of Tivo's functionality out of it (see the PS Vue features above). I would, however, love to see integrated streaming get added to the Tivo I already have. I could unplug my Fire stick and sell it on ebay.


I think you misunderstood the poll. 
The poll on Tivocommunity is not about whether you would buy a Tivo. Most people here already have a Tivo, maybe like me more than one. 
It's about whether a streaming service that replaced your cable tv sub on your Tivo would be worth subscribing too.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Steevow said:


> I think you misunderstood the poll.
> The poll on Tivocommunity is not about whether you would buy a Tivo. Most people here already have a Tivo, maybe like me more than one.
> It's about whether a streaming service that replaced your cable tv sub on your Tivo would be worth subscribing too.


Ahh, yes I did misread it.

Tivo integration would heavily influence my streaming service choice. Given what we know about the beta, it will likely be something along the lines of Sling TV.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

They all use 720P video and stereo audio(although some On demand content is supposedly in 5.1). For only a little more I can get access to many more channels with cable. With better quality video and audio. Which is why I keep my FiOS Ultimate HD tier. Tv cost me less now than it did when first got FiOS in 2007. And much less than it cost me when I got DirecTV in 2001. Only I have many more HD channels than I had in 2001 or 2007. And with the TiVos it makes it so easy to record everything for time shifted viewing. I have over 200 One Passes. And I have no desire to go back to the way I watched TV in the 70's. Which some of the streaming services seem to emulate.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

mdavej said:


> I agree that integrated streaming would be great. Something like that for Tivo and Sling TV is in beta right now. It will be wonderful when it gets released.


Wow can you tell me about that? Is there a link to read? I would love this on my new Roamio OTA!


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

BillyClyde said:


> Wow can you tell me about that? Is there a link to read? I would love this on my new Roamio OTA!


TiVo Roamio OTA DVR - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

mdavej said:


> TiVo Roamio OTA DVR - Page 52 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


That links me to a post on AVS by member Dave Harper. Is that the one? Interesting reading but it seems like speculation and not facts that SlingTV will be there. I don't see anything about it being in beta?

I hope it does because I would dump Spectrum again and use my antenna with SlingTV. I bought an old Roamio for $50 just so I could take the cablecard bracket out and use in my lifetime Roamio OTA.

Is there a more detailed link talking specifically about the beta with SlingTV integration?


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I said something like Sling. Whatever it is, it's in beta. That's all I've got.


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## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

mdavej said:


> I said something like Sling. Whatever it is, it's in beta. That's all I've got.


OK thank you!


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