# Gotta love associations



## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Our homeowner association has been acting more and more like a dictatorship the past 6 months or so. They've decided to enforce a bunch of new rules without even bringing them up to the homeowners to discuss (despite the fact that I, and a neighbor, both went to the last meeting to tell them they really should let these things be discussed; we were told that they make the rules, end of discussion.)

So yesterday we get the rules, and included is a page on Satellite Dish installs. It's hilarious because they claim that they drafted these up with their lawyer. Must've been a law school dropout:

1) The Satellite Dish must be no larger than 2 feet in diameter
2) Only one dish per townhome is allowed and it may not be shared with any other townhome
3) The dish must be attached to the roof or chimney chase at least six feet above the eve line so that it is as inconspicuous as possible
4) All wiring must be installed on the homeowner's roof only and should enter the townhome as close to the dish as possible without damaging the roof.
5) Installation and wiring must be done by a licensed, insured, and bonded professional and shall not interfere with existing roof venting.
6) These regulations apply to presently installed dishes as well as to future installations.

It's hilarious because EVERY SINGLE POINT is covered by the FCC's OTARD rules, and every single rule is unenforcable!  I even told them during the last meeting that the FCC has rules governing these things, but they blew me off.

My neighbor and I are going to try getting on the board to put some semblance of logic and reason back in the association. I guess I'll run on the dish owner platform, since at least 25% of the homes in the neighborhood have dishes. 

Just thought I'd share, as I found it extremely amusing myself. 

CW


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Good luck in your campaign.


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## Stanley Rohner (Jan 18, 2004)

This is why I don't live in a townhouse or condo.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Stanley Rohner said:


> This is why I don't live in a townhouse or condo.


Unfortunately, it's becoming more and more difficult to avoid it, as even single family homes are coming under association control. I know there's some nice houses a block from ours that are in an association, and most of my coworkers who live in houses have the same issue. 

In theory, they make sense. Stop people from doing stuff like putting their four cars up on blocks in the front yard. For some reason, a lot of people seem to power trip and become dictators. I don't get it.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Do you have a lawyer friend that could send a letter to the Association on his letterhead and explain that they are breaking the FCC rules? Include a copy of the OTARD rules.

Here's the link to those rules.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Fezmid said:


> It's hilarious because EVERY SINGLE POINT is covered by the FCC's OTARD rules, and every single rule is unenforcable!  I even told them during the last meeting that the FCC has rules governing these things, but they blew me off.


Actually, not all of the restrictions are unenforcable. I'm an officer of an HOA and have been through this drill many times.

#1 , #2, #6 - completely unenforcable. (and laughable!).

#3 - the HOA can regulate placement within limits as long as that does not impose an "unreasonable installation expense". Your HOA would be better off with "The dish should be" rather than "must be".

#4 - valid, since these are not single family homes, as long as the HOA permits self-installation the homeowner, who agrees to follow all local electrical codes and assumes liability for an improper install..

#5 - valid restriction, presumably to minimize association liability.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

jfh3 said:


> #3 - the HOA can regulate placement within limits as long as that does not impose an "unreasonable installation expense". Your HOA would be better off with "The dish should be" rather than "must be".


The dish can also be installed on someone's patio, driveway, porch, etc if they wanted. I agree that it's fine though, as long as they don't try forcing everyone to move their current dishes - it'd be a waste of assocation dollars, IMHO.



> #4 - valid, since these are not single family homes, as long as the HOA permits self-installation the homeowner, who agrees to follow all local electrical codes and assumes liability for an improper install..


I think they mean that they don't want to allow people to run coax down the side of the house, in the corner crevices and such. Maybe I'm reading too much into the "roof only" comment. If so, you're correct though.



> #5 - valid restriction, presumably to minimize association liability.


You really think they can force you to hire someone to install a dish? Couldn't that be considered "unreasonable cost?" Besides, what liability would the association have? If I fall off my roof, isn't that my fault? Let me know what I'm missing.

Thanks for the feedback!
CW


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## redondoman (Dec 1, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> You really think they can force you to hire someone to install a dish? Couldn't that be considered "unreasonable cost?" Besides, what liability would the association have? If I fall off my roof, isn't that my fault? Let me know what I'm missing.
> CW


Well if the roof is association property and they allow homeowners to complete such an extremely dangerous task (I'm being facetious here) they could be held liable for negligence. I highly doubt they will truly try and force everyone to hire a contractor. How would they even know? However, if you do fall off your roof and try to sue the HOA that clause could come in handy. The HOA's lawyers will only have to bring up that you were in violation of the rules and everyone had been warned.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

redondoman said:


> Well if the roof is association property


If the roof were association property, it wouldn't be a homeowners' association, because you wouldn't be a homeowner. That would be a condo.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

jfh3 said:


> Actually, not all of the restrictions are unenforcable. I'm an officer of an HOA and have been through this drill many times.


You do know you've been labeled for life in here now 

and while i'm anti hoa, i can't feel bad for anyone that voluntarily moves into a hoa place, no matter how nuts the rules, since the knew what they were getting into.

i'm very blessed that i live in an area where people care and dont need rules. And i never understood how anyone could move into hoa and then not want to obey the rules. afterall, thats WHY you moved there. to be governed!


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

newsposter said:


> You do know you've been labeled for life in here now
> 
> and while i'm anti hoa, i can't feel bad for anyone that voluntarily moves into a hoa place, no matter how nuts the rules, since the knew what they were getting into.


Not to get too far off topic, but I ran for my HOA to solve similar problems to those that the OP mentioned - an unaccountable board that wanted to run things like "good buddies" and not like a non-profit corporation that is run with the best interests of all its members in mind.

In some parts of the country, it's almost impossible to buy into a new development that isn't covenant controlled. Most builders do it to protect themselves, with little regard to what happens after they will no longer have control.

Though some states have started to legislate additional protection from the abuses of HOAs, the best way to fix problems is to (a) get people on the board who care and (b) revise the governing docuements so that they reflect the will of the community and not some leftover CYA boilerplate protections put in place by the developer. Revising governing docs is a long process, but ultimately the best way to go.

I'm glad my association is only single-family homes though with limited common areas - condos, townhomes, co-ops all have a host of other issues to deal with.

HOAs don't have to be bad, but too many are perceived that way because most members don't understand their function or what they do, the existing governing documents or care enough to fix the problems.


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

Actual conversation I had with the property manager in the condo I used to live in -

Manager - " About that satellite dish in your back yard"

Me - "What satellite dish?"

Mgr - " the one on the 4 ft pole"

Me - "you mean my garden sculpture?"

Mgr - "No, the satellite dish"

Me - "That's not a satellite dish, it's modern art"

Mgr - "That's not art, it's a satellite dish"

Me - "So you're qualified to judge art?"

Mgr - "But it's not art!"

Me - "It is to me, maybe not as good as dogs playing poker or Elvis on black velvet, but the HOA doesn't have any regs on artistic content, I'd be glad to follow the guidelinesm but there aren't any"

Mgr - "I'll have to get back to you."


I never heard another word.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

The reason the roof might be restricted to the individual unit only is most likely to keep someone from doing stuff to the roof over your unit and causing damage. At least their way, if you cause a leak in your roof, it only affects you. Seems like a good idea to me.

As far as not sharing a dish, why would they not want that. Heck, If you had a section of say 6 units, with the proper paperwork ahead of time, you could all band together and use one set of dish(es) and that would keep 5 of them off the roof.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

ironchef said:


> Actual conversation I had with the property manager in the condo I used to live in -...


That's a great way to make friends with the association  Try to get anything else approved by the board. I am President of my HOA. We are there to help. Why don't you go to a meeting one day.

BTW, In my units we do not encourage owners to do self installs. The reason for this is the roof is covered and paid for by the association. We must maintain it and people tend to damage the roof on self installs. We recommend our roofing company install it and they install it on a vent pipe. If you get a 3rd party installer the roof must be inspected by the roofing company and any damages will be paid by the owner. We also do not allow cables on the outside of the building even if painted to match the walls.

All that said... I have installed a dish, distribution amps, and multiswitches on each of the 4 buildings. I charge around $2/month to hook up to help pay for the multiswtiches, distribution amp, cables, and power. Once we pay off the parts I will reduce the cost to just power. The owners can still install there own dish but no new owner has opted to yet.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

rminsk said:


> That's a great way to make friends with the association  Try to get anything else approved by the board. I am President of my HOA. We are there to help. Why don't you go to a meeting one day.


In my case I'd love to -- but they keep them secret and very difficult to find out when/where they're being held. Put it this way, we couldn't even find out who was currently serving on our Board! It took my neighbor nearly a week before the management company would tell him who was on the board and where the meeting was being held. It was for "privacy issues." Uh huh...

When we did go to the meeting last month to express our concerns with the impending rules they were going to ram through (without showing any of the homeowners these rules), my neighbor and I both asked them to simply wait until the general assembly meeting in June so that we could discuss them with homeowners. A couple of weeks later, the new rules are in our mailbox and go into effect July 1st, no discussion at all. Thanks, guys.

I don't doubt that some HOAs are great; ours was ok for the first year or so (or at least non-obtrusive). But I think the power corrupts some of them for whatever reason. We now have less than 3% of the owners making rules for the other 97% of them, all without representation. The meeting minutes are a hodgepodge, and if there's are votes on things, that's not being recorded at all, so how do we know who to vote for? What a sham.


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

rminsk said:


> That's a great way to make friends with the association  Try to get anything else approved by the board. I am President of my HOA. We are there to help. Why don't you go to a meeting one day.


I've always been involved in the HOA's where I lived (4), that one included, went to every meeting they had while I lived there. Most residents don't realize how much money is floating around in these orgs. They also don't realise what a private club these boards become and how tough it can be to change things until they want something. Power can be a heady thing.

I had tried to get a system as you described approved but they weren't interested. Our pre Comcast cable system was horrible even by the abysmal standards of the cable industry. I was also went to all the local meetings for the cable franchise board and realised they were not going to spend a dime upgrading because they were squatting on the franchise until Comcast offered them enough money. Not willing to wait for marginal improvement I went my own way and was technically within the bounds of the CC&Rs.

Don't assume I don't know how the system works, I had good relations with my board, this was long before satellite was common or well understood. I actually brought a dish to show them it wasn't a BUD. Even after I put it up it took them six months to notice.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> In my case I'd love to -- but they keep them secret and very difficult to find out when/where they're being held. Put it this way, we couldn't even find out who was currently serving on our Board! It took my neighbor nearly a week before the management company would tell him who was on the board and where the meeting was being held. It was for "privacy issues." Uh huh...


Then they are breaking the law. Board meetings must but posted in a conspicuous area at least 48-hours in advance (at least in California). See http://web.naplesnews.com/03/10/realestate/d965082a.htm for a discussion of Flordia rules.



> When we did go to the meeting last month to express our concerns with the impending rules they were going to ram through (without showing any of the homeowners these rules), my neighbor and I both asked them to simply wait until the general assembly meeting in June so that we could discuss them with homeowners. A couple of weeks later, the new rules are in our mailbox and go into effect July 1st, no discussion at all. Thanks, guys.


Request a copy of the minutes and make sure that it was noted that you where there and requested to discuss the new rules. The minutes will not be approved until next months meetingso will not be able to get them until then. They must also send out a notice 2 weeks in advance before a meeting that may ammend the rules or have a special assessment (unless an emergency). Check with your local laws.


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## davidjplatt (Aug 27, 2003)

jfh3 said:


> Actually, not all of the restrictions are unenforcable. I'm an officer of an HOA and have been through this drill many times.
> 
> #1 , #2, #6 - completely unenforcable. (and laughable!).
> 
> ...


Depends on how the HOA is setup. I'm on the Board of Directors of the HOA I live in and we would not be able to regulate who installs the dish since the roof of the townhouse is owned by the property owner and is maintained by the property owner. It completely depends on how the documents of the HOA were drafted. Location within the OTARD rules can be goverened by most HOAs since most Boards are reponsible for Architectural Control. However, most of the rules that are described in the drafted regulation are point blank null and void. They also can't prevent someone from putting up two dishes if that's what they need to get signal. Period.

I'm sick and tired of most people thinking all Board of Directors are dictatorial. Not the case. Board members are volunteers - many times because everyone else in the comunity could give a rats a.. about their own community. I live in a community of 190 homes and the Board of Directors main concern is keeping up the appearance of the community to maintain or increase property values. Gee, I guess that's not in everyone's best interest...


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## dmaneyapanda (Jan 16, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> If the roof were association property, it wouldn't be a homeowners' association, because you wouldn't be a homeowner. That would be a condo.


As a condo owner, I'm afraid I must disagree. I am a homeowner. I do not, however, own my roof, the association does.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> It was for "privacy issues." Uh huh...
> 
> .


sounds like there needs to be one simple federal law enacted. HOA board information (name address) must be publicly published X times a year. You guys are already paying HOA fees so what a few cent more for a newspaper ad?

there's no privacy (that i'm aware of) as far as ownership of homes. I am pretty sure the courthouse has records of who owns what


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

davidjplatt said:


> putting up two dishes if that's what they need to get signal. Period.
> 
> I'm sick and tired of most people thinking all Board of Directors are dictatorial. Not the case. Board members are volunteers - many times because everyone else in the comunity could give a rats a.. about their own community. I live in a community of 190 homes and the Board of Directors main concern is keeping up the appearance of the community to maintain or increase property values. Gee, I guess that's not in everyone's best interest...


I too feel your pain. I have served on the board of my association of 140 homes for 5 years, in pretty much every position from president on down (we only have 5 members). The worst part is that so may people are apathetic. We have pretty much the same people on teh board every year because people just don;t want to get involved. We have to announce the annual meeting 30 days in advance in NC, we usually follow with a reminder (both by mail) about a week ahead and still 8-9 people might show up on a good one (5 of those are current board members, a couple of the others are former members).

We are pretty laid back and think long and hard before sending people a deficiency notice as we want to be fair and also good stewards of the homeowners money. However, when people use no common sense at all and allow the entire front of their house to be coated with green moss so that you can;t tell what the true color is, you have to do something. Luckily, our neighborhood is individual lots and hte homeowners are responsible so the roof and dish installs is not somethign we have to worry about.

You would be amazed at how many people do not pay their dues.

As far as regular meetings and board members go, we are not required to publicise them, but we have a newsletter sent by the management company and they list the meeting dates in there and also, we periodically put the board member names and phone numbers in as well, at the very least once a year after the annual meeting and election.


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## footballdude (Apr 16, 2004)

I'm sure the laws are different in different states, but here in Missouri any changes to the homeowners association regulations have to be approved by two thirds of the homeowners and notarized. The board doesn't have the authority to just create new rules. Having been a treasurer of a homeowners association I can tell you that the board is an administrative and enforcement body, not a legislative body.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Since a few people have asked, I'll give a few details.

I did run for the board when it was first established a couple of years ago. There was a decent turnout (roughly 60% of homeowners), and I think I lost by a vote or two.  I never received any information about a second election, and by looking at the board members, it appears that they simply renewed themselves without announcing it. So this isn't the first time I've tried to get involved in the community.

The association is located in Hudson, WI (right across the river from Minnesota).

Our hope (me and a neighbor) is to get a majority of the proxy votes from people by going door to door and talking to them about the association. If we can walk into the next meeting with a fistful of proxy votes, they'll have to start listening. None of this, "You have no right to know who's on the board or what we talk about" crap.

I blame the management compnay more than the board. We're managed by Cities Management, and they seem to be extremely inept. Twice in the past year they've assessed a late charge on my account for failure to pay my dues. The first time it turns out they deposited my check into someone elses account (had to have Citibank send them a nasty letter because they wouldn't listen to me). Just last month (only weeks after I attended the meeting, coincidence?) I get a letter saying I'm over 90 days late, even though they owed *ME* $5 as of April 30th.  I just got that straightened out today. In addition, it's the person from the management company who kept saying things like, "We don't need to talk to the homeowners, the board can make whatever rules they want with help from our lawyers" during the last meeting. I think she pushes the board members around. Maybe if we just get a new management company, things will get better.

We'll see how things play out.

CW


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> I did run for the board when it was first established a couple of years ago. There was a decent turnout (roughly 60% of homeowners), and I think I lost by a vote or two.  I never received any information about a second election, and by looking at the board members, it appears that they simply renewed themselves without announcing it. So this isn't the first time I've tried to get involved in the community.


They have to have a yearly association meeting where the residents vote for a new board and discuss other business including the new budget. Typically a two week notice has to be distributed to all residents before the association meeting. A quorum of home owners must be present or have proxy votes in order for the meeting to proceed. If a quorum is not formed a new meeting is scheduled. The next meeting quorum rules may be lowered, it varies from state to state. For example NC say shall be one-half of the quorum requirement applicable to the meeting adjourned for lack of a quorum. If the current board "re-elected" themselves without a quorum of home owners then they have no authority and you could sue the association. These rules vary from state to state so research what the laws are in your state.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> I think she pushes the board members around. Maybe if we just get a new management company, things will get better.
> 
> We'll see how things play out.
> 
> CW


i dont understand about mgmt companies. What is their function? they dont own the homes do they? What is there to manage? do they cut ur grass? please expand


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

newsposter said:


> i dont understand about mgmt companies. What is their function?


As far as I can tell, they exist to collect money and practice petty fascism. Issuing new parking policies is their favorite thing.



> _do they cut ur grass? please expand_


Well, they cut the tiny strips in the common areas, yes. But not the main part of the lawns.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Well, since there is quite a bit of administrative work involved in printing payment coupon books, accepting and tracking payments, dealing with contractors (for various things depending on the type of buildings ranging from landscaping and maintenance to major building repairs), taxes, utilities, etc and most boards are made up of volunteers with day jobs, they elect to pay an outside management company to do the day to day enforcement so that they can concentrate on poilcy making and such.

It is very possible that this management company is overstepping and should be reigned in. It is also possible that the board has instructed them to act this way (less likely in my opinion). Either way, getting on teh board will be an excellent way to effect change.


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## xr400 (Jul 12, 2005)

I would rather have a car on blocks next door than put up with all that HOA bs.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

the concept of common areas is what i didnt realize. It's a foreign notion to me. If i want a certain service here, i go to where it is and dont have to pay for things I dont want or never will use. I can see the need for it if you have tennis courts, parks etc. I wonder how many people pay into this thing and never use half the amenities?


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## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

rminsk said:


> That's a great way to make friends with the association  Try to get anything else approved by the board. I am President of my HOA. We are there to help. Why don't you go to a meeting one day.


Biggest scam ever, "I'm from the government, I'm here to help....." Why anybody would want this kind of intrusion into what they do on their own property is beyond me. My neighbor does some stuff against local zoning, but as long as it is in his yard, who cares. I do things too. Like open burning in city limits, discharging fire-arms in said limits... a little fire in the evenings is "against the law". Some neighbors suggested starting an HOA in my area, they were all "persuaded" to move to a more "yuppie type" of community.


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## Kevin L (Jan 10, 2002)

A properly run HOA is not an intrusion. It maintains the character of the neighborhood and protects the quality of life and property values of its members. 

I doubt we'd ever be neighbors, but if I had a neighbor with a car on blocks, burning trash in their yard, or discharging firearms, HOA or not, I'd pursue whatever remedy I legall could to stop these actions.


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## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

I have no cars on blocks, all 3 of mine run perfectly, I have small camp type fires in the evenings not burning trash, and if people would keep their cats out of my trash, on trash night, I wouldn't have to shoot them.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

This has been pointed out in other threads in the Happy hour, but in NC, the law says that all new developments over 100 homes are required to have an HOA. Mostly so that cities can push off some of their responsibilities onto neighborhood jurisdictions as well as for providing recreation facilities. Many other states have similar laws so if you want a relatively new house less 2 hours away from where you work, you are limited in your chaices to be in non-association areas.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

that say something about NC...not sure what though...dont wanna start controversy

sure does make old homes much 'friendlier" though


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

They need to make satelite dishes more attractive and flatter so that this problem can be avoided. If they just looked like a skylight or something there would be fewer problems, I bet


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lee L said:


> This has been pointed out in other threads in the Happy hour, but in NC, the law says that all new developments over 100 homes are required to have an HOA.


I don't believe you.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

It is going to be hard to find as it may well be a county by county rule, but here is an article from the Washington Post that says the following.



WP Article said:


> In 1970, only 1 percent of us lived in association-governed communities. Between 1980 and 2000, fully half of the new housing built in the United States was in such communities. *In fast-growing parts of the country, especially in the South and the West, essentially all new development involves private community associations.*


I will search my local paper's archives later and ask the residential development end of my company about the rules as well.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Dodge boy said:


> Biggest scam ever, "I'm from the government, I'm here to help....."


So you have never been to a HOA meeting. In the past year our assoication helped keep the local hospital from being closed by a big corporate health care company, helped keep the local park from being zoned for a high rise, kept the insurance company from forcing every condo in our area from building fences around there common areas, ... We also deal with the contractors to help fix the sewage lines, replace the siding on all of our building, painting all the building, ...


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

It's funny. A couple years ago there was an upscale neighborhood here where WalMart was planning on opening a sprawling store near the entrance of the subdivision.

The homebuyers banded together to protest WalMArt coming there. There was a big tussle over it. Finally WalMart relented and decided not to build there.

So what happened? They threw up a big ole apartment complex there instead.

I think I woulda preferred a WalMart...


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Bob_Newhart said:


> I think I woulda preferred a WalMart...


and all the traffic?


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## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

Bob_Newhart said:


> I think I woulda preferred a WalMart...


Lucky Wal-Mart didn't use the new eminate domain ruling to seize your land and open it anyway. I dunno Wal-Mart and it's white-trash, buggy leaving in the middle of the parking lot, too lazy to watch their stupid brats screaming in the store, customers would be worse. I'll never enter one of those again, once was enough for me.


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## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

rminsk said:


> So you have never been to a HOA meeting.


As I said before, no I never belonged to one and never will. I pay 1500/ month to own my land so I can do what I want, when I want, my neighbors do too. While your stuff sounds nice and all, My buddy lives in one where they have to cut there grass on Sundays between 1:00 pm and 3:00 pm. and they can't leave their boats on trailers in their driveways. I used show up on Thurs. w/ my mower around 5:30 pm and when done I'd park in his yard.... That got those uptighties.  Me and my neighbors all get along and we don't trash the neighborhood either, but we enjoy the benefits of homeownership.


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## 7thton (Mar 3, 2005)

Dodge boy said:


> Lucky Wal-Mart didn't use the new eminate domain ruling to seize your land and open it anyway. I dunno Wal-Mart and it's white-trash, buggy leaving in the middle of the parking lot, too lazy to watch their stupid brats screaming in the store, customers would be worse. I'll never enter one of those again, once was enough for me.


Stereotype much?

Wal-Mart can't use eminate domain. A state government can, however.


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## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

7thton said:


> Stereotype much?
> 
> Wal-Mart can't use eminate domain. A state government can, however.


You better check the ruling of the supreme court back in Oct. (Right before Sandra Oconner resigned). They ruled that private property can be seized and turned over to another private owner. She wrote a disertation and criticized it and a week later anounced she was resigning.

Not a stereotype, just an observation.


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## MajorTomSawyer (Apr 2, 2006)

ironchef said:


> Actual conversation I had with the property manager in the condo I used to live in -
> 
> Manager - " About that satellite dish in your back yard"
> 
> ...


Heh...

pwned.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Dodge boy said:


> Lucky Wal-Mart didn't use the new eminate domain ruling to seize your land and open it anyway.


How would Wal-Mart use eminate domain? Is Wal-Mart a government agency? Is tWal-Mart considered public-use? Do you even know what eminate domain is?


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

BTW all, the word is "eminent", not "eminate".

Dodge boy is referring to a recent Supreme Court case that got a lot of attention, wherein a town used eminent domain, and immediately turned around and sold the land in turn to a private developer. The town was sued, on the basis that eminent domain is supposed to be used for a public purpose, which in this case, appeared to amount solely to revenue for the town. However, the town's action was upheld.


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## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

Dodge boy said:


> You better check the ruling of the supreme court back in Oct. (Right before Sandra Oconner resigned). They ruled that private property can be seized and turned over to another private owner. She wrote a disertation and criticized it and a week later anounced she was resigning.


And I submit to you again......... Check it out I'm telling you that they can NOW change ownership of private property from one owner to another to generate tax revenues.... Where have you been? Pay attention to what is going on I'm only the messenger.


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## Dodge boy (Apr 7, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> BTW all, the word is "eminent", not "eminate".


Thank you.....


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

Flip side is how Hercules, CA is using Eminent Domain to try and take away the property Walmart was going to use for a new store. Seems they don't want the sort of clentele that would be attracted to the store in their town.


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## ntrprize (Jun 6, 2002)

Associations suck. Ive been in my house for 15 years. I still am trying to find out who is on the board or when meetings are held. The management company states that the board members info is private and the meetings are private to protect the board members. I have never voted on any of the numerous rule changes. I even hired an attorney but he had no luck either. The ignored a summons to court. They were held in contempt and had to pay a fine, but they STILL will not talk to any of the homeowners. After 15 years, I have all but given up.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

ntrprize said:


> Associations suck. Ive been in my house for 15 years. I still am trying to find out who is on the board or when meetings are held. The management company states that the board members info is private and the meetings are private to protect the board members. I have never voted on any of the numerous rule changes. I even hired an attorney but he had no luck either. The ignored a summons to court. They were held in contempt and had to pay a fine, but they STILL will not talk to any of the homeowners. After 15 years, I have all but given up.


That's really odd. Arizona right, as in the USA?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

ntrprize said:


> Associations suck. Ive been in my house for 15 years. I still am trying to find out who is on the board or when meetings are held. The management company states that the board members info is private and the meetings are private to protect the board members. I have never voted on any of the numerous rule changes. I even hired an attorney but he had no luck either. The ignored a summons to court. They were held in contempt and had to pay a fine, but they STILL will not talk to any of the homeowners. After 15 years, I have all but given up.


i guess the right to face your accuser isn't valid in your state, sorry (like if they wrote you up for a leaf on your driveway you'd figure you could see them at least)

sometimes the local tv stations love this stuff during sweeps month. You obviously dont mind going the extra mile and sticking your neck out so that would be my next step


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## ntrprize (Jun 6, 2002)

Yes, Arizona. Everone I have dealt with has told me that the association needs to be available to the homeowners. The managemant cmpany indicates that the board wants to be anonomous as interaction with the homeowners can be dangerous.

Here is what we havve to deal with:

The association puts out a monthly news letter. If you are the original owner, you get the newsletter. If you purchased the home since then, you are not on the mailing list. The managemant company is suposed to update the list with the new owners. This does not happen.

The association is supposed to mail welcome packets to each homeowner when they move in. This packet includes the rules, a welcome letter, and a pool key. Only the original owners have received this, everyone else cant get into the pool. I actually built a pool in my yard. Not because I could not get into the community pool, but because I like to swim "provately" with my wife.

The association switched banks, but never updated the payment coupons. We still get payment coupons with the old payment information on them, after FIVE years. We never knew until a collection agency started calling the homeowners. And the HOMEOWNERS had to pay the collection and late fees AND we had to prove we actually made the payments.

But dont fret, the association still enforces the rules. Dont get weeds or park you car in the street, the will fine you.

We do get the new rules and an outdated coupon book every year as well as results of the voting throughout the year. Of course, we dont get an voting materials, so no one knows who voted or what was voted for until we get the results. There are always more votes than there are board members, but I have not been able to find any homeowners who admit to voting, so we are not sure who is actually voting on this stuff.

Overall, our assiciation is OK, the rule are not obnoxious, and I can literally say they never really bother you unless you are out of compliance. This is more of a case of lazieness, un-organization, and paranoia.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

THat sounds more like the management company is totally incompetent. However, they are doing or not doing several things that violate many state statues (probably including Arizona). It should be no problem to get that taken care of with an attorney.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

what does an HOA do if you dont pay a ticket? I assume take you to court? If so, then hopefully you'd get to see them


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## ntrprize (Jun 6, 2002)

Dont know. I rarely get tickets. In the rules they state a lein will be placed on your home for any unpaid fines after 90 days.


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## footballdude (Apr 16, 2004)

Placing a lein on a home is the only real power an association has. It means that you won't be able to sell or refinance your home without clearing the lein first.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Well, we're having the big yearly meeting today, and I'll be running for a spot on the board. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure our property management representative will try to pull some trick to keep both me and my neighbor off the board. She's already tried -- first, the letter said that there was only one open position this year. I contacted her and told her that I thought it was supposed to be two. After two weeks of "looking into it," she corrected herself and said that it was indeed two (although no notice was given to homeowners). Maybe I'm being too cynical, but that's the way it appears, given her track record.

I'm going to "campaign" about the need to have full disclosure - no secret meetings, no new rules without discussing them with interested homeowners, no keeping board members secret -- we should be feeding information to the homeowners so that they don't feel separated from the association. We'll see what happens.

I wouldn't be surprised if the management company simply says, "We have enough proxy votes to vote in whomever we want." In order to get attendance up, they actually sent a form you can fill out to win a $25 gift certificate -- if you can't attend the meeting, simply send in your proxy and you're eligable as well.

Time will tell - wish me luck!


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Fezmid said:


> Well, we're having the big yearly meeting today, and I'll be running for a spot on the board. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure our property management representative will try to pull some trick to keep both me and my neighbor off the board. She's already tried -- first, the letter said that there was only one open position this year. I contacted her and told her that I thought it was supposed to be two. After two weeks of "looking into it," she corrected herself and said that it was indeed two (although no notice was given to homeowners). Maybe I'm being too cynical, but that's the way it appears, given her track record.
> 
> I'm going to "campaign" about the need to have full disclosure - no secret meetings, no new rules without discussing them with interested homeowners, no keeping board members secret -- we should be feeding information to the homeowners so that they don't feel separated from the association. We'll see what happens.
> 
> ...


Ask to see the proxy votes and ballots just to make her life difficult. Every time this thread pops back up to the top and I read it, the whole situation still amazes me.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

HDTVsportsfan said:


> Ask to see the proxy votes and ballots just to make her life difficult. Every time this thread pops back up to the top and I read it, the whole situation still amazes me.


Well, the meeting was pretty interesting. Our lawyer (who allegedly has 15+ years in association law) had never seen the OTARD laws before and thanked me for bringing them up.  How can you be writing by-laws and not know the federal laws surrounding them? They've been around since '99, not like they just popped up overnight. Anyway, he said that they're going to revise them, so we'll see.

Unfortunately, we didn't have a quarum, so nobody new was elected tonight. There's two openings, three people wanted to run (including myself and my neighbor), so the three remaining board members will convene in the next day or so and decide who to bring on. The laws don't actually say they have to pick someone who put in for nomination tonight though - they could come back and elect whomever they want, although I'd say that would be very bad form.

I'll keep people posted when I know more.


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## davidjplatt (Aug 27, 2003)

I am absolutely amazed by this entire thread.

In the state of Virginia where I live, there are two classifications of homes that are in associations. Condominiums and Homeowner's Associations. Condominiums are governed by the Condominium Act of Virginia - it is very descriptive and very comprehensive. HOAs are different - most single family home associations and most townhouse assocations are HOAs instead of condominiums and are governed by the Property Owner's Act. The POA is much less restrictive. HOAs are governed by Articles of Incorporation (that must be approved by the state), Declarations and Covenants, By-Laws and Rules and Regulations. The POA overrules all of them.

The POA states that meeting notices must be given for Board Meetings and Annual Meetings. The POA states that HOAs must have a Reserve Study to determine how to be funded for replacement of common elements such as private parking lots. The POA states how often the Reserve Study must be updated. The POA gives timeframes on when draft minutes of meetings have to presented. This is all STATE law in Virginia. No choice on the matter.

The vast majority of HOAs in Virginia have specific language in the Declarations and Covenants and the By-Laws as to how many Board members there are, when they are elected, their term of office, how elections are held, how vacant Board positions are filled, how quorums are calcuated, how annual meetings are held, etc. In our HOA, our documents state we have to keep scheduling annual meetings until we get a quorum. We just have to keep on trying. And then the Board can't put members onto the Board since the Board term ends at the completion of a successful election. The old Board members stay on until the election is held. If they choose to resign, the Board can fill the positions but they expire when the election is eventually held.

The POA in Virginia states that in order to amend the Articles of Incorporation and/or the Declarations and Covenants that there must be notarized signatures approving the amendments by 66 2/3% of the homeowners. Doesn't matter what the HOA documents state - POA takes precedence.

The POA in Virginia states that Board meetings must be open to any homeowner in the association and proper notice of the meetings must be given to the members of the HOA. If the Management Agent or Board doesn't provide notice of the meetings and holds them in a closed manner (except where closed Board sessions are warranted - such as deliberating and coming to a decision after a hearing has been held for a violation, etc.) they are breaking the law.

It's all based on what the state's laws and HOA's documents state. If there are HOAs where the Board acts anonymously then they are probably violating state law - in Virginia they are definitely breaking the law. I know I'd end up taking the HOA to court based on the state's laws. In Virginia the judges would hold the HOA in contempt and require the management agent to provide names and addresses of the Board and probably throw them in jail for failure to appear if they didn't show up in court.

People need to understand that in general, HOAs are a good thing - they keep up neighborhoods and property values and make sure you don't have somebody dragging down the neighborhood.

The HOAs mentioned in this thread that are meeting in secret and acting like they govern a police state are probably breaking the law - at least a little if not a whole lot.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I am pretty sure the board connot just select someone except maybe to fill out a departing meber's term. IF this is the annual election, I am pretty sure they have to allow the attendees to vote or use proxies.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Lee L said:


> I am pretty sure the board connot just select someone except maybe to fill out a departing meber's term. IF this is the annual election, I am pretty sure they have to allow the attendees to vote or use proxies.


They needed 44 homeowners to attend (or a combination of attendees and proxy votes) to have an election by the homeowners, but since they didn't meet that, they say that the board can select who they want.

I'd have to read over the rules and regs again to see if that's true.

CW


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> They needed 44 homeowners to attend (or a combination of attendees and proxy votes) to have an election by the homeowners, but since they didn't meet that, they say that the board can select who they want.
> 
> I'd have to read over the rules and regs again to see if that's true.
> 
> CW


I'm wondering if you hadn't been there would a stack of proxies have appeared to fill the quorum? Just my sneaky skepticism coming out.

I'd make a bunch of copies of the proxy form and go out and get as many as you can from your neighbors.


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## HDTVsportsfan (Nov 29, 2005)

Fezmid said:


> Well, the meeting was pretty interesting. Our lawyer (who allegedly has 15+ years in association law) had never seen the OTARD laws before and thanked me for bringing them up.  How can you be writing by-laws and not know the federal laws surrounding them? They've been around since '99, not like they just popped up overnight. Anyway, he said that they're going to revise them, so we'll see.


You/They might want to consider a new laywer.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

davidjplatt said:


> People need to understand that in general, HOAs are a good thing - they keep up neighborhoods and property values and make sure you don't have somebody dragging down the neighborhood.


Well, that presumes that keeping property values high is a good thing. How could it not be, you say? Consider property taxes -- the higher the valuation on your property, the more tax you pay. So, high property values may be desirable if you look at your house as an investment, and expect to move on; if you just want to _live_ there, not so much. Of course, HOAs are the creation of developers, for whom sale value is the only consideration.

Some people might also value their freedom more than their investment.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> . Of course, HOAs are the creation of developers, for whom sale value is the only consideration.
> 
> Some people might also value their freedom more than their investment.


well said...they sure dont care about homeowners per se. just that they make their sale. I just pity the 'uninformed' homeowners that move in not knowing they have hoa or not knowing what that really means.

now for those that move in with full knowledge...no pity on you 

and i'm sure glad i dont live in a part of the country that needs these things. I'll freely admit i live next to 2 people who aren't as aggressive on their yard work, and neither am i, yet all our values almost doubled in the past 10 years. And the homes across the street sold just fine for full value even with my 'imperfect' front yard.


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## ironchef (Dec 27, 2002)

davidjplatt said:


> People need to understand that in general, HOAs are a good thing - they keep up neighborhoods and property values and make sure you don't have somebody dragging down the neighborhood.


True in theory, it's it the implementation where it all goes pear shaped.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Well, I got the news -- I'm an official member of the Board of Directors for the next two years. Let's see if I can't shake things up and make this place better.

Havn't heard who the second new member is; I'll have to talk to my neighbor to see if he got it or not.

BTW - anyone have any references I should read about what to do on the board...? I'm assuming it's common sense, but a manual would be nice 

CW


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

For California you should get http://www.condobook.com/ but I do not know what to get in Minnesota. You still may want to get the California book anyway. Maybe look at The Homeowners Association Manual (5th Edition). I have never used that one but it sounds good.


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## SeattleCarl (Nov 11, 2005)

Most states have on-line reference to their laws and codes. A bit of research might just turn up a whole lot of good information. I would certainly start by searching your own state (and county and city) web site(s) for information, and as rminsk noted, take a look at what other states or municipalities offer.

Also, you absolutely need to obtain a copy of the ByLaws and any other governing documents for the association, and I would further request copies of all Board meeting minutes for the past year or two (they do keep minutes, don't they?).

Now, the big question is, how did they go about selecting/electing/appointing you to the Board? Get a copy of the minutes for the meeting that made that happen too.

And if you really want to have some fun, see what they use for parlimentary procedure. If they are dumb enough to say something like a vague reference to Robert's, start studying. You can shut down anything they do in no time at all with a few secondary or tertiary motions.

Carl


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

You can also check to see if the Community Associations Institute has any workshops in your area. http://www.caionline.org/

Once you get all the inside info, make sure to come on here and post about how it is a bunch more work than you thought.  OR at least how you have them shaped up and working properly. It sounds to me like you need to get a new management company or get them to work on communicating properly.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Lee L said:


> You can also check to see if the Community Associations Institute has any workshops in your area. http://www.caionline.org/
> 
> Once you get all the inside info, make sure to come on here and post about how it is a bunch more work than you thought.  OR at least how you have them shaped up and working properly. It sounds to me like you need to get a new management company or get them to work on communicating properly.


Cool site, thanks! Unfortunatley, the only thing in the Twin Cities area is a "Risk Management" course offered in October. Probably not something I'm interested in right now. 

I"ll definately keep people posted. I'm not sure if we need a new management company or simply a new management company representative. The woman we have is terrible, and I'm going to see if we can get her removed (need to talk to the other board members and see if I'm the only one who sees the problems though...)

Speaking of bad communication, they called me to offer me the spot, but never called my neighbor telling him he wasn't one of the selections. Remember when I said the board doesn't communicate at all? Terrible.

I'm in Hudson, WI (right across the border into WI) if anyone has any sites/docs related to this area. I was reading the Hudson building code yesterday about what is and isn't allowed on properties. That was entertaining (sorta...  ).

CW


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

wmcbrine said:


> I don't believe you.


http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_47F.html

I used to live in Apex, NC, about 10 minutes from Lee L. All the subdivisions have HOAs. Mine (Waterford Green) also had a community playground and a nice pool. Mine didn't say anything about dishes except banning the gigantic C-Band dishes. Many people had satellite dishes, so it was a common sight and nobody wanted to regulate them.

Other subdivisions in the area (especially in Cary, NC) aren't as tolerant. You can have the dishes, but they really enforce the "keep it obstructed as possible" part of the clause. Someone I knew had to prove that the signal was obstructed in every single spot in his backyard. He had to hire a professional installer, even though the dish was alredy installed, to reinstall it in the backyard. The installer couldn't, of course, and reinstalled it exactly where it was.

After he did this, the HOA forced him to paint the dish and the pole green to help it blend in better, and plant a tree so that you couldn't see the dish from the road. When he refused, they claimed he hadn't paid (i.e. they conveniently "lost") his HOA dues and threatened to evict him. He since agreed to do as the HOA says and now sends his HOA checks certified mail (his wife loves the house).

It just depends on your HOA....read the HOA laws BEFORE you buy the house. (of course, they will change after you buy the house, but at least you don't walk into a bad situation).


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## jgerry (Aug 29, 2001)

I find this entire thread intriguing!

First, let me say that my home is in a very mixed urban neighborhood. Some of the houses were built as early as 1920, some have popped up that are brand new. Some are moderately historic homes with real architectural style. Most of the older ones are fully renovated and well-kept. A dwindling number are still fixer-uppers. We have a very loose neighborhood organization, and have some rules, but they're more like "guidelines" than rules. I like it this way. I know there's a rule that says that privacy fences aren't supposed to be over 6 feet tall -- but me and my neighbors on both sides all have 8 foot privacy fences. No one complains. The casual attitude keeps the diversity of the neighborhood intact and, in my mind, adds a lot of local color.

The area of town due west of mine surrounds a large public park and the Atlanta zoo. The homes there are larger, older, and more historically relevant. Their association is mostly concerned with preserving the neighborhood's historic heritage. My father bought one of the most expensive houses there, right on the park. Then he spent the better part of 3 years fighting with the association over his right to build a fence. Then he spent another 2 years fighting with the city over zoning laws so he could build a garage. He finally gave up and moved back to the suburbs.

My baby sister lives in a planned suburban community where every house is brick with white trim. They have a draconian neighborhood association which controls everything with an iron fist -- from how short you can cut your lawn to what color the curtains _inside_ your house can be. You can only cut your lawn between noon and 5:00 pm on Saturday. You can't have cars parked on the street overnight. All outdoor furniture visible from the street must be approved by the board. I could never live like this!

Point is, you should live where you're comfortable with the rules. I live in a free-spirited neighborhood and would really not like having uptight suburban neighbors, while my sister and my father -- well, they like living under the rules to make sure the people around them aren't troublemakers. Basically, they would dislike having me for a neighbor -- my odd hours, loud music, occasional all-nite parties, I sometimes don't mow my lawn every week... And I'd dislike having them for neighbors. It all works out though! You have to live where you're comfortable. Don't expect your neighborhood to change, because it probably won't.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

BobCamp1 said:


> http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByChapter/Chapter_47F.html


I read about NC's Planned Community Act after Lee L's post. It was apparently very controversial, because it was said, IIRC, to grant associations the ability to foreclose on a house for nonpayment of dues. (I also read that this was changed by a later bill.) However, nowhere did I see any commentary to suggest that the act made HOA's mandatory for new developments of over 100 units. Given the stink raised about the other provision, I feel sure that this would've been mentioned. But if you still think it's in there, I'll attempt to parse it from the dense legalese. Or can you point out a section?



> _I used to live in Apex, NC, about 10 minutes from Lee L. All the subdivisions have HOAs._


I don't doubt it. But that's de facto, not de jure.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Well, I found out some of the code issues. Basically, they way it was explained to me is that it comes down to stormwater control. NC (and I am sure most other states) requires various stormwater remediation facilities (open space, ponds, spillways, landscaping, etc) for control of the water to limit erosion and to allow nitrogen to be released from the water before the water makes its way to the natural waterways around a development. NC requires cities and counties to ensure that adequate stormwater controls are in place on newly permitted subdivisions. In turn, municipalities then draft their own rules regarding the subdivisions.

In Raleigh, they have chosen to put this burden on the developer of subdivisions and the ongoing maintenance of these structures falls back on Homeowners Associations. Municipal code section 10 article D deals with planned developments of various sizes. Section 10-3073. REQUIREMENTS FOR COMMON AREAS, OPEN SPACE, HOMEOWNERS DOCUMENTS, AND PHASED DEVELOPMENTS contains most of the requirements that cause associations to be formed in Raleigh proper and most other municipalities in the Triangle area and in the State have similar ordinances as they have to deal with the same State rules regarding water quality .

The Raleigh municipal code can be found here. http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=10312&sid=33


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Well, I went to my first meeting as an official board member. All I can say is that stories about the power of being on an association board getting into people's heads is true. 

This part isn't DTV related, but apparantly there's a person who has had some trees/plants in her yard for 4 years and was told she could put them there by the sales guy (these are new houses - so the sales guy was an agent of the builder). He said a lot of things just to make the sale, so it's not surprising that he lied about this too.

Anyway, the board now wants her to remove them all because they didn't get permission and they're not very tall yet. Even though they've been there for *4* years. At one point, one of the board members snapped at the homeowners and in a harsh tone said, "It says right here you can't plant without permission, so you shouldn't have planted anything!"  The two sane people in the board (myself and one other) settled things down and requested the homeowner to make a sketch of the yard and label what plants are where and how tall they're supposed to get, etc, etc. All is well, or so we thought.

The next day, one of the other members makes a call to city hall and has the city come and cut one of the trees down because it "obstructs the view."  The city workers didn't agree, but since they were told to do it, they did. GIve me a break.

DTV related: A couple of board members want to go through and tell homeowners to take down their dishes, one of which is self-contained in a pot on the patio. I keep saying that they can ask thati t be moved, but they can't force anything. We'll see what happens.

I can't believe how power trippy some of these people are getting, it's ridiculous!


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> Anyway, the board now wants her to remove them all because they didn't get permission and they're not very tall yet. Even though they've been there for *4* years. At one point, one of the board members snapped at the homeowners and in a harsh tone said, "It says right here you can't plant without permission, so you shouldn't have planted anything!"  The two sane people in the board (myself and one other) settled things down and requested the homeowner to make a sketch of the yard and label what plants are where and how tall they're supposed to get, etc, etc. All is well, or so we thought.
> 
> The next day, one of the other members makes a call to city hall and has the city come and cut one of the trees down because it "obstructs the view."  The city workers didn't agree, but since they were told to do it, they did. GIve me a break.


At the next board meeting you will have to be very careful how you word the minutes. Always keep a legal eye out when writing the minutes. If the board voted and agreed to keep the tree and one of the board members called to have it removed the board will have to replace the tree. Since it was a board member who called the board will be responsible. Was there a vote on the trees?


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

rminsk said:


> At the next board meeting you will have to be very careful how you word the minutes. Always keep a legal eye out when writing the minutes. If the board voted and agreed to keep the tree and one of the board members called to have it removed the board will have to replace the tree. Since it was a board member who called the board will be responsible. Was there a vote on the trees?


There was no official vote, it was just stated that the homeowners should present a sketch and we would review it and give a formal written response after looking at the sketch and the property again.

The board member who placed the call claims that he just asked the city to look it over because it was blocking visibility of the street. I never actually saw the trees to know for sure. 

CW


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

If it ends up being contentious, you might have to start insisting on strict adherence to Roberts Rules of order. That way, at least 2 sane people can get soemthing voted on if only to make sure there is a record of their insanity. You need to make sure everyone understands that you want real minutes taken to record it.


As far as antennas go, check at FCC for OTARD.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

See http://www.fcc.gov/mb/shva/shviafac.html for info on antennas and dishes.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

fez i believe every word about the plants/trees and wont even repeat my bash of associations because I want to just hang my head and say how sad i feel for that lady. I can only imagine the tone that he said that in. 

I'd half laugh, half cry if i ever sat in one of these meetings. I'm way to logical a person to participate in them. I'd say they were fine for 4 years so....IBWH


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I live in a small development of single-family homes (55 units) and we've had a homeowner's association ever since I moved in almost 20 years ago. The original members of the board were comprised of a small clique of homeowners that moved into the first section of the development. I attended a few meetings when I first moved in and quickly realized they were a bunch of thick-headed power-hungry Nazis that were more interested in being in control than actually helping the community. They generated a list of guidelines for the other homeowners with regards to what they could and could not do to the exterior of the homes they owned.

I soon relized that further attendance would be a total waste of time and any attempt at making changes was completely futile because they simply weren't interested in anyone else's ideas. The joke turned out to be on the board members because everyone soon realized that they had absolutely no way to enforce any of the guidelines they had posted, mainly because they simply didn't have the funds to hire a lawyer and fight anyone that was in violation of their rules.

One of the regulations prohibited the construction of in-ground swimming pools and privacy fences. There are at least a half dozen or more homes that now have swimming pools. Privacy fences are required by the insurance companies if you own a pool. Another regulation prohibited the installation of any rooftop antennas or satellite dishes. I've had my DTV dish mounted for about 10 years and two large UHF antennas for the past year or more and I haven't heard a peep from anyone in all that time.

The original board members are long gone and I don't even know who's currently on the board. I haven't seen a notice about an association meeting for as long as I remember, not that I'd attend anyway. Our dues are paid on an annual basis and haven't changed since I moved in so I've got no complaints in that regard. The money goes to pay for maintaining the common areas in the development and paying the electric bills for the streetlights and spotlights that were installed at the main entrance to the development. We even have an annual picnic funded by the association.

On the downside, I've got one neighbor that has had junk cars in his yard and has let his house go to s**t, mainly because he's always out of town and is too cheap to pay anyone to maintain it for him. He hasn't paid a penny in association fees since the day he arrived. The worst part is that I actually like the guy and his family so I've never said anything to them just to keep the peace.

Down the road there's a community known as Columbia, MD that was built by the Rouse Corp. several decades ago. Now that is a real concentration camp when it comes to Homeowner's Associations. They do have the money and clout and extremely strict regulations to keep their community pristine. Unfortunately, they also have a high crime rate to go along with all of the rental units and townhouse developments they put in. Their monthly fees are more than my annual fee.


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## bguppies (Jun 29, 2003)

rminsk said:


> and all the traffic?


Less traffic with a Super WalMart than an apartment complex.
I have to sit in bumper to bumper traffic every day leaving our neighborhood due to the 2 apartment complexes near the entrance to the highway.
Hundreds of apartments with 1 or 2 cars per, generally all leaving and coming home from work together adds up to more than the few hundred customers at any one time at a Walmart at any time during the day.

Luckily the homeowner's association where we live now, simply tries to keep up the looks of the neighborhood (and succesfully keeps out any more apartment complexes being added) and doesn't try to nitpick the smaller issues.

Bill


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