# Currently available harddisk options



## romanpj (Dec 23, 2003)

The 120gb hard disk in my Tivo is failing and I've got it hooked up to a motherboard on the bench trying to transfer everything to a 160gb (will have to check its overnight progress after this post  ). What are the currently available options for large hard disks (around 400gb)? I've looked at blindlemons site and several others but the Samsungs seem to be in short supply.

As a follow-on from this issue a split with my partner means that I need to get another Tivo operational. (A testament to how good Tivo is as its one of the few bits of technology she can't live without.) I picked up an unmodded Tivo from Ebay for just under £50 which after a daily call I found had a lifetime subscription!  Providing I can retrieve everything off my existing Tivo is there any issues with copying the same setup (recordings, SP's, etc) to 2 new larger HD's? How selective can I be? The one going to her won't have a network card and the only hack required is the bufferhack but will require the SP's and recordings.

Thanks

Paul


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

romanpj said:


> I picked up an unmodded Tivo from Ebay for just under £50 which after a daily call I found had a lifetime subscription!  Providing I can retrieve everything off my existing Tivo is there any issues with copying the same setup (recordings, SP's, etc) to 2 new larger HD's?


You lucky bar-steward*. The subscription info is tied to a chip on the motherboard and confirmed by the TiVo HQ database. If you put your old disk in the LT TiVo and perform a daily call, all will be well. I tranfsered recordings, season passes, hacks etc from a monthly TiVo to an LT without issue.

Make sure that you just put a regular (dial-up) image on the one without the network card, though.

T
*Not about breaking up, obviously.


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## romanpj (Dec 23, 2003)

> What are the currently available options for large hard disks (around 400gb)? I've looked at blindlemons site and several others but the Samsungs seem to be in short supply.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

A search of the forum would have been a good thing to
However here is one result http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365001&highlight=best+hard+drives

And if you do decide to spend some money http://www.ultratec.co.uk/stocklists/SearchResults.asp?model=HA250JC

I have no info for >250gb


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I can concur that a) large IDE drives (esp. Samsung) are getting scarce and b) the HA250JC is ideal for TiVo use


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

blindlemon said:


> I can concur that a) large IDE drives (esp. Samsung) are getting scarce and b) the HA250JC is ideal for TiVo use


novatech have nice selection of large IDE drives. I couldn't comment on quietness or performance since I haven't needed to buy one yet, but if it's specifically large samsungs people seem to like then they have 160 and 400GB models. http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/products/a504x1y0z1p0s0n0m89
They have other makes too so have a look around.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

320GB Samsung HDLD for £44.72 delivered from:-

www.pricerunner.co.uk/pl/36-703003/...inPoint-T133-320GB-IDE-7200rpm-Compare-Prices

or

750Gb Seagate Barracuda from the BT Shop at £119.50 delivered

See www.shop.bt.com/productview.aspx?quicklinx=42L3

This 750Gb Seagate drive needs to be your only Tivo drive though as the power consumption level means Tivo can't handle two of them. There is also a 5 year warranty on these drives.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> This 750Gb Seagate drive needs to be your only Tivo drive though as the power consumption level means Tivo can't handle two of them.


In addition to this, the newer Seagate drives do seem to aggravate the 'helium sound' bug in some TiVos. They are not as quiet and/or cool as equivalent sized Samsungs either and I have stopped stocking them for all these reasons.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> In addition to this, the newer Seagate drives do seem to aggravate the 'helium sound' bug in some TiVos. They are not as quiet and/or cool as equivalent sized Samsungs either and I have stopped stocking them for all these reasons.


Have you tried any of the Western Digital 500Gb IDE drives as these are now quite cheap.

Or does either noise or reliability issues completely rule them out?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I don't particularly like WD drives either. The ones I've handled always seem to run hot.

However, if anybody has been using one or two large (>=300gb) WD drives in a TiVo for more than a couple of months then I'd be interested to hear about it...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> I don't particularly like WD drives either. The ones I've handled always seem to run hot.
> 
> However, if anybody has been using one or two large (>=300gb) WD drives in a TiVo for more than a couple of months then I'd be interested to hear about it...


The recently fitted 160Gb WD Scorpio 2.5" IDE I am now running here seems to run much cooler in this HP Notebook drivebay (right under the left hand side of the palm wrest where you can feel the temp while typing) than its 80Gb Samsung predecessor that died after 30 months use.

Its also pretty quiet, although it makes more of a neeeooowww sort of turbo sound when the drive is started up from cold.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> The recently fitted 160Gb WD Scorpio 2.5" IDE


What on earth has that got to do with Tivo or are you just again drifting off


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> What on earth has that got to do with Tivo or are you just again drifting off


There was a comment in the previous post about the reliability and noise of different makes of hard drives. That's not exactly as irrelevant as starting to discuss the price of pineapples is it.

To my mind your own rude comment has been far more disruptive to the smooth reading of the thread.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

How on earth you can reach the conclusion that my comment was rude only you will know that.

I also read the previous post hence my comment



> However, if anybody has been using one or two large (>=300gb) WD drives in a *TiVo*


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

You may be the first person in this forum I end up using the Ignore button with if you aren't careful. You always have that option with me rather than just enjoying complaining about my posts (as I suspect is more likely to be your real motivation).

"are you just drifting off again" - sounds pretty rude to me. Probably more so if we added in the Hanworth accent.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

In case you failed to realize the drifting off related to the topic rather than you personally. So sorry if I upset you.

Now as to accent that could be considered rude because you have no idea of where I am from and you may possibly upset my local natives


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> In case you failed to realize the drifting off related to the topic rather than you personally. So sorry if I upset you.
> 
> Now as to accent that could be considered rude because you have no idea of where I am from and you may possibly upset my local natives


Natives? Do many of them may use those long haul planes that fly over your neighbourhood to reach another subcontinent somewhere?

I see Hanworth is right at the end of the M3 betwen Hampton, Feltham and Spelthorne. If memory serves me right driving off the M3 Hanworth is rather depressing suburbia but Hampton of course is posh (a bit like Slough and Eton only a mile apart)

Yes I do presume too much about accent. Clearly there needs to be a Tivo pub get together so that all of us longstanding Tivo sparring partners could get to know one another rather better. Oops off top again. Definitely a subject for UK General Chit Chat if it is to be continued.


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

hey, love birds, can you stop bickering please and get this thread back on topic. I for one would be interested to know if WD's 3.5 inch drives are any good as I'm going to be wanting a new drive for my tivo before too long.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I personally still suspect Samsung are the best make (the HA250JC undoubtedly *is* the best drive, ever) for TiVos, but as I said, I'd be interested to hear from anybody with experience of using a large (let's say 250gb+) WD drive of recent vintage (2007) in a TiVo for a few months.

If I hear enough good things about big new WD drives then I may buy a couple and test them myself, but my experiences with older WD drives are currently preventing this.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikeyp said:


> hey, love birds, can you stop bickering please and get this thread back on topic. I for one would be interested to know if WD's 3.5 inch drives are any good as I'm going to be wanting a new drive for my tivo before too long.


And WD's 500Gb IDE drive currently seems to be one of the cheapest and most plentifully available..........

Another active thread today about the actual process of replacing hard drives in a Tivo appears to suggest that not only Seagate but also Maxtor hard drives may now draw too much current to fit two of them together in a Tivo. The two 300Gb Maxtor drives fitted won't start up.

See www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=375655

As Seagate now own Maxtor are all Maxtor's new drives effectively coming off the same production lines and/or being built to effectively the same specs as Seagate drives? This leaves us with only Hitachi and Western Digital as possible 3.5" alternatives to Samsung as neither Fujitsu or Toshiba make any 3.5" drives and stick exclusively to 2.5" devices.

Hitachi 3.5" drives we know are far too hot and have too many platters per Gb and are therefore reknowned for short Tivo lives. WD 3.5" drives are probably not as bad as Hitachi but also appear to run hotter and are shorter lived than Samsung drives.

Nobody yet seems to have established whether SATA drives can be used in a Tivo with an adapter. Unfortunately the very largest (1TB) drives now only seem to come out in SATA as the assumption of manufacturers seems to be that they will always be used in brand new equipment (virtually all of which is now SATA compatible).


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

I have been using Seagate ST3250823A Barracuda 250GB 7200RPM hard drives in both my Tivos for past 2 years. I opted for them as a recommended 2nd choice to the Samsung which at the time wasn't readily available, also the Seagates had a 5 year warranty.
Very quiet running and no temperature problems.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

RichardJH said:


> Very quiet running and no temperature problems.


I suspect blindlemon has gone off Seagate drives since the Maxtor merger when possibly many of Maxtor's cheapskating drive production techniques were then introduced.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Hard drives are like cars. You have favoured brands based on your own personal preference, and your own experience of them - but your experience is very limited in statistical terms. Even blindlemon has only seen a relatively small number, and differences he sees in reliability are more likely to be model specific than brand specific.

In general its nonsense to say Maxtor is more reliable than Western Digital or whatever, as each model of drive will have its own reliability. In car terms, its the equivalent of saying that Fords are faster than Vauxhalls.

The very fact that you can Google as hard as you like and you won't find any concrete data to show brand A is more reliable than brand B should tell you something. You'll find loads of opnions, nut no facts.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

This is just to point out the great deal currently available on 400GB Samsung HDLD IDE drives from Novatech as these are only £57.58 including delivery. They currently have 13 in stock.

See http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAM-S400P


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> In general its nonsense to say Maxtor is more reliable than Western Digital or whatever, as each model of drive will have its own reliability. In car terms, its the equivalent of saying that Fords are faster than Vauxhalls.


Sorry but you are talking out of your hat here TCM.

Almost any motoring journalist or any reliability survey will tell you that nearly all Rovers and all TVR will spend a high percentage of their useful working life in their local garage while a Toyota will spend nearly all its working life out on the open road.

Try getting a service on a Toyota. Only one to two days wait. Try the same on a Rover - about a month's wait due to the dealership being snowed under with an endless volume of emergency repairs. Why do you think the RAC (via a deal with Club Toyota) offers Toyota owners annual breakdown cover including home start relay and European wide cover for only £55 per annum. The same RAC cover to drive any car on the road is over £150 per annum.

Ditto with washing machines virtually all Hotpoints without exception are useless heaps of junk that break down regularly while Zanussis at much the same price are virtually all very reliable. Mieles are even more reliable but at a high additional cost, although they bring other features such as remarkable quietness (across all their models) to the party.



> The very fact that you can Google as hard as you like and you won't find any concrete data to show brand A is more reliable than brand B should tell you something. You'll find loads of opnions, nut no facts.


Ever come across the Reliability Survey at www.storagereview.com/map/lm.cgi/survey_login TCM?

You need to Register but you can see detailed reliability stats on all the different individual drive models supplied by hundreds of end users.


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> This is just to point out the great deal currently available on 400GB Samsung HDLD IDE drives from Novatech as these are only £57.58 including delivery. They currently have 13 in stock.
> 
> See http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?SAM-S400P


^ hehe yay for my link!
I love novatech. I've bought masses of stuff from them over the years and their cust service has been second to none in my opinion.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikeyp said:


> ^ hehe yay for my link!


It was actually a Google search for 400GB Samsung IDE that brought this out near the top of the list.

Your previous mention of Novatech was just a coincidence.


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> It was actually a Google search for 400GB Samsung IDE that brought this out near the top of the list.
> 
> Your previous mention of Novatech was just a coincidence.


heh fair enough, that's funny, still, novatech is a good company.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikeyp said:


> heh fair enough, that's funny, still, novatech is a good company.


They certainly seem to do interesting things with drive prices from time to time as they seem to deal in large numbers of them.

I have always been a bit worried though about buying any of their second user or returned drives that they offer from time to time.

Also on their budget 2.5" drive range they won't guarantee to supply any particular drive but only one of that size and type that takes their fancy. A bit like Sky with their Digiboxes really.............


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

blindlemon said:


> I don't particularly like WD drives either. The ones I've handled always seem to run hot.
> 
> However, if anybody has been using one or two large (>=300gb) WD drives in a TiVo for more than a couple of months then I'd be interested to hear about it...


I'd have thought that possibly WD's new range of drives may be of possible interest - the GP series, that are lower powered & slower to make them more energy efficient and run cooler.


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> They certainly seem to do interesting things with drive prices from time to time as they seem to deal in large numbers of them.
> 
> I have always been a bit worried though about buying any of their second user or returned drives that they offer from time to time.
> 
> Also on their budget 2.5" drive range they won't guarantee to supply any particular drive but only one of that size and type that takes their fancy. A bit like Sky with their Digiboxes really.............


lol, I've only ever bought new stuff though. I guess it's the placebo effect of having the warranty for a year and peace of mind.
I wouldn't buy used items with mechanical parts. Electronics you can get away with because they either work or they don't but as soon as you're talking things like hard drives that can physically wear out...


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## mikeyp (Dec 22, 2005)

edit: sorry it double posted for some reason...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikeyp said:


> edit: sorry it double posted for some reason...


There's a Delete Post option under "Go Advanced" edit


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Almost any motoring journalist or any reliability survey will tell you that nearly all Rovers and all TVR will spend a high percentage of their useful working life in their local garage while a Toyota will spend nearly all its working life out on the open road.


Re-read my post Pete. I said it's like saying a Ford is *faster *than Vauxhall.



> Ever come across the Reliability Survey at www.storagereview.com/map/lm.cgi/survey_login TCM?
> 
> You need to Register but you can see detailed reliability stats on all the different individual drive models supplied by hundreds of end users.


No I haven't. Just had a look and it appears to confirm what I said, that variation within brands by model is way more than variation between brands. They don't seem to even attempt to make a brand assessment.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Re-read my post Pete. I said it's like saying a Ford is *faster *than Vauxhall.


This was your post TCM:-



> In general its nonsense to say Maxtor is more reliable than Western Digital or whatever, as each model of drive will have its own reliability. In car terms, its the equivalent of saying that Fords are faster than Vauxhalls.


You chose to compare hard drive reliability with cars but then chose to make the car comparison by speed by brand and not by reliability by brand. This is blatantly nonsense as a production car's top speed has nothing at all to do with how reliable it is.

The relevant comparison is whether all cars of a particular make are inherently more unreliable than all cars of another make.

Presumably you instead choose to compare the speed of cars knowing that there are vast variations in every brand from their HGVs through to their sports cars.

Have you ever once in your life admitted to being wrong about something TCM? Somehow I suspect not.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> You chose to compare hard drive reliability with cars but then chose to make the car comparison by speed by brand and not by reliability by brand. This is blatantly nonsense as a production car's top speed has nothing at all to do with how reliable it is..


Who said anything about car reliability? I was making an analogy. I will try to explain more simply so you can understand my point.

The reason its a nonsense to say that Fords are faster than Vauxhalls is because the speed of each model within the brand is different, and there is as much or more variation in speeds within a brand as there is between brands.

You can say a GT40 is faster than an Astra, but not that Ford's are faster than Vauxhaulls.

My contention is that with hard disks it's the same. You can say that one individual model is more reliable than another, but not that one brand is than another.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> My contention is that with hard disks it's the same. You can say that one individual model is more reliable than another, but not that one brand is than another.


And my contention Mr Harry Houdini of the arguments world is that you can actually say that all Mercedes models are far more relibale than all Rover models and that all Toyota models are for more reliable than all Renault models and be near 100% accurate in such an assertion.

Since the above analogies are about car reliability and are directly analagous to hard drive brand comparisons by reliability they are a relevant comparison whereas your comparison about speeds of different car models in different brands is completely irrelevant and nothing at all to do with hard drive reliability and is totally contrived in order to get the answer you wanted rather than to get at the truth of the matter.

Is this how you might manage to argue with your staff that an increase in the number of hours you are expecting them to work each week is actually a reduction?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Since the above analogies are about car reliability and are directly analagous to hard drive brand comparisons by reliability they are a relevant comparison whereas your comparison about speeds of different car models in different brands is completely irrelevant and nothing at all to do with hard drive reliability and is totally contrived in order to get the answer you wanted rather than to get at the truth of the matter.


Are you familiar with the concept of an analogy Pete? It seems not.

An analogy is indeed totally contrived in order to make the point. This is what they are for.

The fact that you've come up with a different analogy which makes a different point doesn't magically render mine invalid.

You misread the post Pete, just admit it!

Ps:

In the world of cars, it possible to say that brand x is more reliable than brand y, and survey after survey says that Alfas and TVRs are less reliable than Hondas and Toyotas.

It is the very absence of any such clarity in the hard drive world which suggest to me that, in hard drives, brand is not the main factor, model is.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Are you familiar with the concept of an analogy Pete? It seems not.
> 
> An analogy is indeed totally contrived in order to make the point. This is what they are for.


No they aren't their purpose is to in some way describe a relationship in one group of items by comparing them with a similar relationship in an otherwise wholly different class of objects.

But you are comparing speeds of different models of cars of the same make and hard drive reliability of different makes and maintaining there is an obvious correlation in patterns of observed data between the two things when most members of this group would argue the opposite.

But don't waste your time arguing with me. Why not instead debate it with blindlemon who will, I'm sure, be quick to correct your misapprehension that hard drive reliability is in no way correlated with the brand of hard drive disk manufacturer.

Also all TVRs and Ferraris seem to be fast and all Trabants and Ladas are slow so I would suggest your allegation that car speed and car manufacturer are always unrelated is also faulty


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Why not instead debate it with blindlemon who will, I'm sure, be [...]


Thanks Pete - it makes my life so much easier when you do my talking for me


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> But you are comparing speeds of different models of cars of the same make and hard drive reliability of different makes and maintaining there is an obvious correlation in patterns of observed data between the two things when most members of this group would argue the opposite.


You just misunderstand my point Pete.

Just find me somewhere on the web which ranks Seagate, Samsung, Hitachi and the rest in order of reliability based on non-anecdotal data. The site you pointed out earlier does not do that, it compares individual models, probably because variation *within *manufacturer of reliability between models is so vast that comparison of some notional "average reliability" is meaningless (which was my point).


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