# UPS vs. Surge Protector



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

I currently have a Monster Power Center surge protector for all my AV equipment (DLP TV, Tivo S3, AV Receiver and DVD). It has worked quite well and I have not had any problems even though we have had several power outages recently during storms.

I even have connected the cable coax thru it (even though many people say that degrades the signal) and I found that doing so improved the sound quality on my analog stations.

After reading several other posts I am considering adding a UPS system to the setup. My questions:

1. Is a UPS really needed and will it provide additional protection (other than the obvious of preventing a tivo restart after failures).

2. If so, what should I look for in a UPS. I have read posts of some fairly expensive systems ($100 to $500), but would think that I could get something a little cheaper. (I do get an employee discount from major CE retailer, so I'd be paying 60-70% of list).

3. Most of the systems I see appear to be designed for computer systems, even providing the software linkage. Would one of these work?

4. What size would I need (KVA rating?) if I just wanted to use it for the tivo and tv?

5. Should it be placed in line with the surge protector, or as a separate feed?

Thanks for any guidance you can provide.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

1. The main (only) advantage you'll get is the battery backup. The value of that is up to you.

2. See answer 4. You don't need anything too complicated.

3. Yes. Obviously the software connection won't come into play...

4. Go to APC.com or equivalent site. They have tools to determine the size you need based upon the draw and how long you want the battery backup to last.

5. Most modern UPS also have built-in surge protectors, so you won't need your surge protector at all.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

A UPS is important for a TiVo because it allows it to continue running through small outages. Otherwise, you will miss whatever is recording while it reboots. For a TV it is not so important. I use a UPS on all of my TiVos but not on any of my TVs or audio equipment (they just go into the surge ports).


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Thanks for the info. I guess I've narrowed it down to getting a UPS just for the tivo (let everything else remain on the surge protector).

I'm still not sure of size though. The APC site seems geared to businesses and computer systems, couldn't find info on PVRs, etc. My Google turns up a lot of "What Brown can do for you", but not any calculator sites for sizing.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Go to APC.com and choose "selectors" from the top. Pick the middle choice below. Determine the draw for your TiVo from the back of it or the manual. Continue.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

a 1000VA unit will do fine for 2 Tivos, the higher VA rating will just mean a longer run time.
(if anything a sizing calculator will say this is too much)

My system is as described by the others above, TV, and all other units except the 2 Tivo's are on surge only, the Tivos and upstairs network switch are on the UPS.

In the basement the cable modem, router, house switch, and Terastation are all on a UPS, also make sure that if you use any video amps, that they are also on the UPS.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> Go to APC.com and choose "selectors" from the top. Pick the middle choice below. Determine the draw for your TiVo from the back of it or the manual. Continue.


Thanks for being my GPS system for the APC site.

Looks like 420 VA system will provide 1/2 hour for 80 watt S3 load.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> Thanks for the info. I guess I've narrowed it down to getting a UPS just for the tivo (let everything else remain on the surge protector).
> 
> I'm still not sure of size though. The APC site seems geared to businesses and computer systems, couldn't find info on PVRs, etc. My Google turns up a lot of "What Brown can do for you", but not any calculator sites for sizing.


It's very important that the TiVo also be on a surge protector. If the UPS you choose doesn't have a good one then I'd put one in line between the UPS and the TiVo.

The size of the UPS required really is up to you. In my area the vast majority of power failures are very short - from a few seconds to a minute or two. A small UPS can handle that with no problem.

Roy


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

RoyK said:


> It's very important that the TiVo also be on a surge protector. If the UPS you choose doesn't have a good one then I'd put one in line between the UPS and the TiVo.
> 
> The size of the UPS required really is up to you. In my area the vast majority of power failures are very short - from a few seconds to a minute or two. A small UPS can handle that with no problem.
> 
> Roy


Thanks.

Would you put it wall > SP > UPS > Tivo

or wall > UPS > SP > Tivo?

Any concern with "transformer generated interference" with the connection?


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

You should really consider putting the TV on the UPS also - when you turn your TV off, a fan continues to run for a few minutes to cool off the bulb. Obviously, this can't happen when your power goes out unless you have a UPS on there. Running the TV off the battery would kill it pretty fast, but by turning the TV off manually when the power goes out and having the battery there for an orderly shutdown/cooldown is important (to me at least).


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Most name brand UPSs (like the APC ones) have surge protectors built in. Check the feature list and don't try to skimp by getting a no-name UPS. Cheap name-brand UPSs are only like $50...


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jrm01 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Would you put it wall > SP > UPS > Tivo
> 
> ...


Its usually recommended to go wall > SP > UPS > TiVo.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I use the APC 350 for my TiVos. Usual price most retail stores is ~$40. Often there may be deals to be had. The battery in a UPS is quite heavy, so buying from a web-site tends to be more expensive than retail.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Consider your DLP. It needs to cool off, or else the bulb will have its life shortened dramatically.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> Its usually recommended to go wall > SP > UPS > TiVo.


Interesting ... I didn't think you were supposed to chain power strips like that (too much drain on a single outlet or something like that)?


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> Its usually recommended to go wall > SP > UPS > TiVo.


Yup... You want your surge protection as close to the wall plate as possible to provide the best ground (to shunt the spike current into). Everything in the system should be attached to this 'first' protection device so all see the same ground reference.


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## moxie1617 (Jan 5, 2004)

RoyK said:


> It's very important that the TiVo also be on a surge protector. If the UPS you choose doesn't have a good one then I'd put one in line between the UPS and the TiVo.
> 
> The size of the UPS required really is up to you. In my area the vast majority of power failures are very short - from a few seconds to a minute or two. A small UPS can handle that with no problem.
> 
> Roy


 Read the UPS warranty very carefully. Belkin will not honor any warranty if the UPS is plugged into a surge protector or a surge protector is plugged into the UPS. I can't remember the APC warranty but their restriction was only on one side of the UPS.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Here is a good read on surge protection.

http://www.panamax.com/PDF/IEEE_Guide.pdf


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

moxie1617 said:


> Read the UPS warranty very carefully. Belkin will not honor any warranty if the UPS is plugged into a surge protector or a surge protector is plugged into the UPS. I can't remember the APC warranty but their restriction was only on one side of the UPS.


APC doesn't want you using surge protectors in conjunction with their UPS models either:

Using surge strips with APC's Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products.
Question

This document will explain why APC recommends against the use of any surge protector, power strip or extension cord being plugged into the output of any APC Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products
Answer

APC recommends against the use of any surge protector, power strip or extension cord being plugged into the output of any APC Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products. This document will explain why.

Plugging a surge protector into your UPS: Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently distribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly  causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot. If you need to supply additional receptacles on the output of your UPS, we recommend using Power Distribution Units (PDU's). PDUs evenly distribute the amperage among the outlets, while the UPS will filter the power and provide surge protection. PDUs use and distribute the available amperage more efficiently, allowing your equipment to receive the best available power to maintain operation.

However, please note that the UPS is designed to handle a limited amount of equipment. Please be cautious about plugging too much equipment into the UPS to avoid an overload condition. To understand the load limit of your particular model UPS please consult the User's Manual, or visit APC's Product Page at www.apcc.com/products.

Plugging your UPS into a surge protector: In order for your UPS to get the best power available, you should plug your UPS directly into the wall receptacle. Plugging your UPS into a surge protector may cause the UPS to go to battery often when it normally should remain online. This is because other, more powerful equipment may draw necessary voltage away from the UPS which it requires to remain online.

Maintaining EPP and Warranty: Plugging any non-APC surge protector, power strip, or extension cord into the output of an APC brand UPS could void your Equipment Protection Policy (EPP). However, the standard 2 year product warranty is maintained. If, after taking into consideration this knowledge base document, you choose to use an APC brand surge protector in conjunction with your APC brand UPS, your warranty and Equipment Protection Policy will be maintained.

If you have any additional questions regarding your set-up, please call APC technical support at 800-800-4272 (Mon-Fr 8am-8pm EST).


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

windracer said:


> Interesting ... I didn't think you were supposed to chain power strips like that (too much drain on a single outlet or something like that)?





> Plugging your UPS into a surge protector: In order for your UPS to get the best power available, you should plug your UPS directly into the wall receptacle. Plugging your UPS into a surge protector may cause the UPS to go to battery often when it normally should remain online. This is because other, more powerful equipment may draw necessary voltage away from the UPS which it requires to remain online.


Ok, so that's probably what I was thinking about.


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

Ok, so maybe someone could explain this to me.

I was under the impression that MOV type surge protectors wear out pretty quickly, that is, they are rated to a specific accumulated surge. That could be one large one and many small ones. I was told by an engineer that in Dallas, that the typical MOV is past its surge protection capacity within a few months because of the microsurges in this area.

Is that total BS or is there some truth in that?

Al


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

rainwater said:


> A UPS is important for a TiVo because it allows it to continue running through small outages. Otherwise, you will miss whatever is recording while it reboots. For a TV it is not so important. I use a UPS on all of my TiVos but not on any of my TVs or audio equipment (they just go into the surge ports).


If your TV is a MicroDisplay (i.e. LCD Rear Projection, DLP, or LCoS (DILA, SXRD)) then you have a UHP lamp in the TV and it needs to go through a cooling cycle with the Fan after the bulb is turned off. If you do not go through this cycle it can significantly reduce the life of the lamp. At a cost of $200-$300 per lamp, that's very much worth protecting as well.

I don't get frequent power outages but the do occur, and I turn my TV off to preserve the battery life on my UPS and my DVR's keep on churning. But the fan will run for ~1 min after I shut of my DLP TV and that's worth keeping it on there.

CCourtney


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## Rosenkavalier (Nov 9, 2001)

bmgoodman said:


> Plugging your UPS into a surge protector: In order for your UPS to get the best power available, you should plug your UPS directly into the wall receptacle. Plugging your UPS into a surge protector may cause the UPS to go to battery often when it normally should remain online. This is because other, more powerful equipment may draw necessary voltage away from the UPS which it requires to remain online.
> 
> Maintaining EPP and Warranty: Plugging any non-APC surge protector, power strip, or extension cord into the output of an APC brand UPS could void your Equipment Protection Policy (EPP). However, the standard 2 year product warranty is maintained. If, after taking into consideration this knowledge base document, you choose to use an APC brand surge protector in conjunction with your APC brand UPS, your warranty and Equipment Protection Policy will be maintained.


Reading between the lines, this reinforces what an electrical engineer friend once told me about surge protectors combined with UPS's: it has nothing to do with anything technical. instead, it has to do with the manufacturer's need to factor out the "human nature" element.

It goes something like this: if you have a four-outlet surge protector on one side of the room, and a ten-outlet surge protector on the other, how many devices can you safely plug in? 98% of the people you will ask will say, "14". This is wrong. The correct answer is, "Until you tell me _what_ those devices are, it may be anywhere from one to 14."

Human nature sems to be that if there's an available outlet, that means you can plug something - meaning, _anything_ - into that outlet. If you're talking about a set of low current-draw items, then you might get away with it. But if you try to plug in an A/V Receiver, a large Microdisplay, a powered Subwoofer, etc., all feeding from a small, underpowered UPS, you'll kill that thing in no time.

Safely running multple outlets downsteam of the UPS (surge protectors plugged in after the UPS) requires vigilance on the part of the user, in confirming that everything that is connected does not in total represent a load that exceeds the design ratings for the upstream UPS, or the battery backup capacity. Safely running multiple outlets downstream of the UPS (plugging the UPS into a surge protector) means making sure that the power load going into the shared surge protector does not produce current/voltage drops that cause the UPS protection schemes to kick in repeatedly. (And since the TiVo does not [currently] 'talk' to the UPS to monitor the real-time data, you are effectively blind to the status of the UPS as it is running - unless it is one with a front status panel, or you run a cable to a PC for monitoring.)

As noted above, since 98% of the population either can't or won't do these things, it's just simpler to tell folks "Don't do it!!!" and walk away. But if you are in that 2% who are capable and willing to watch what you do, there's no technical reason this won't work. If you are concerned about other folks coming along and plugging things in that would put the system out of balance, you can always get those child-protection outlet plugs to cover the outlets that are not in use, to discourage anyone who doesn't really know what they're doing from plugging excess items in.


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## Steve_Martin (Jul 18, 2004)

acvthree said:


> Ok, so maybe someone could explain this to me.
> 
> I was under the impression that MOV type surge protectors wear out pretty quickly, that is, they are rated to a specific accumulated surge. That could be one large one and many small ones. I was told by an engineer that in Dallas, that the typical MOV is past its surge protection capacity within a few months because of the microsurges in this area.
> 
> ...


It's all true. Just this week I had a 400 Hz inverter pass a transient to my PDU boxes - these boxes also had MOVs and the line to neutral MOV failed spectacularly on two PDUs.

The manual for the inverter claims to have MOVs on its front end - I suspect they are used up, but there's no easy way to know for sure (other than getting hit downstream).


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## Steve_Martin (Jul 18, 2004)

Rosenkavalier said:


> Safely running multple outlets downsteam of the UPS (surge protectors plugged in after the UPS) requires vigilance on the part of the user, in confirming that everything that is connected does not in total represent a load that exceeds the design ratings for the upstream UPS, or the battery backup capacity. Safely running multiple outlets downstream of the UPS (plugging the UPS into a surge protector) means making sure that the power load going into the shared surge protector does not produce current/voltage drops that cause the UPS protection schemes to kick in repeatedly. (And since the TiVo does not [currently] 'talk' to the UPS to monitor the real-time data, you are effectively blind to the status of the UPS as it is running - unless it is one with a front status panel, or you run a cable to a PC for monitoring.)


Good stuff.

Don't forget to stay within the current limits of the wall outlet oo.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

What's a MOV?

I'm currently running the regular APC UPS(the strip ones, not the rack or tower kind).


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## Steve_Martin (Jul 18, 2004)

Bai Shen said:


> What's a MOV?
> 
> I'm currently running the regular APC UPS(the strip ones, not the rack or tower kind).


Metal Oxide Varistor.

Used for clamping input voltages to a preset level - they look like a disc capacitor.

Here ya go: linky


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Steve_Martin said:


> Metal Oxide Varistor.
> 
> Used for clamping input voltages to a preset level - they look like a disc capacitor.
> 
> Here ya go: linky


So that's what's used in a UPS?


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## Steve_Martin (Jul 18, 2004)

Bai Shen said:


> So that's what's used in a UPS?


Probably, it's a commonly used device for transient suppression. It's not an energy storage device.

Usually, you'll find them across line to ground, neutral to ground, and line to neutral. The devices are dirt-cheap.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

Steve_Martin said:


> It's a commonly used device for transient suppression. It's not an energy storage device.
> 
> Usually, you'll find them across line to ground, neutral to ground, and line to neutral. The devices are dirt-cheap.


So I should about them going bad in my UPS?


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## Steve_Martin (Jul 18, 2004)

Bai Shen said:


> So I should about them going bad in my UPS?


I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but they could be used up and you would never know until you get hit with a transient spike (like I did this week).


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## acvthree (Jan 17, 2004)

MOVs are pretty much used across the board on inexpensive surge protectors from what I can see.

Back to my friend, he recomended one of two things.

1. Write the use date on the UPS or surge protector strip and replace them once a year.

2. Use a more expensive, non-MOV, surge protector.

He recomended a Brick Wall and that's what I have been using. I'm sure there are others of the same type.

To complete this discussion, I put a brick wall ahead of a UPS. I'm not sure if that is recomended or not, but it seems to have worked in a relatively high surge area like Dallas.

http://www.brickwall.com/


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I would strongly recommend against going with a cheap UPS, ideally go with a UPS that has an inline power conditioner and actually regulates your output voltage to 120V.

These are typically much more robust than what surge protectors use for power protection and have the added benefit of controlling load on the electronics due to brownout conditions, etc.

UPS prices have dropped dramatically. I recently picked up a really nice Tripp-Lite Home Theater 1KV UPS with a voltage regulator, digital display, etc, for $99. This can power my Tivo HD for ~ 1 hour.

As others have indicated it's also important to make sure you don't exceed the total current draw that the UPS can handle with the devices you plug in. I've seen people put 1000 watts worth of electronics on a low grade UPS and it will simply shut off when power is interrupted.


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## Bai Shen (Dec 17, 2004)

So do the APC UPS's use MOV's? I don't recall seeing any mention on their site.


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

I have a CRT RPTV so don't have to worry about the lamp fan, very good point- so would be worth putting on the UPS. Agree w/ the above statements about surge before UPS being unnecessary/not recommended, per my Belkin docs as well.

I would recommend as well a UPS with AVR (voltage regulation), which will give "cleaner" power (outside of full brownouts/surges/spikes/outages) which should extend the life of delicate electronics/harddrives.
Normally the Tivo wouldn't need a very large UPS (35-80w), but if you're plugging in your DLP etc, they can be like 250-300W, plasmas more...(IF you are actually watching, I'd turn it off.)
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6475_7-6400401-1.html?tag=txt

Most of the UPS units with AVR tend to be bigger ones anway.. I've liked my Belkins, my Tivo HDD seems to have been lasting longer since I put on UPS, but Panamax has one of the best surge/UPS reputations.
You can get decent sized AVR-equipped UPS for around $100ish.

If you don't put the TV on battery-backup (for the fan), you can still plug it into the surge-protected (and AVR'd) outlets, w/o needing a separate surge protector.

As noted, besides protection of your electronics, the cool side effect is that you can actually record (if not watch) your precious TV shows during an extended power outage!  Just make sure any cable amps/distribution blocks are on UPS also!


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Bai Shen said:


> So do the APC UPS's use MOV's? I don't recall seeing any mention on their site.


I took apart a BACK-UPS 1500 and it looks like it. Around the terminal on the circuit board labeled surge neut. are several big blue disks marked on the board as MVn.


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## hearncl (Oct 16, 2006)

Several years ago I researched surge suppression for my computer equipment. ZeroSurge surge suppressors were highly recommended by numerous sources. These do not use MOVs. The ZeroSurge site has a lot of technical information on the subject. This MacInTouch forum also has excellent information on surge suppression, lightning protection and UPS; based on these posts I purchased ZeroSurge suppressors for both my audio and computer equipment. I have two TiVos plugged into a small Belkin UPS, which itself is plugged into the ZeroSurge, and have had no problems.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

cgould said:


> Most of the UPS units with AVR tend to be bigger ones anway.. I've liked my Belkins, my Tivo HDD seems to have been lasting longer since I put on UPS, but Panamax has one of the best surge/UPS reputations.
> You can get decent sized AVR-equipped UPS for around $100ish.


I stopped using my Belkin UPS, which touts AVR, because it really bugged me that it ran so warm in operation.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Make sure you check your UPS every now and then. The batteries only last about 3 years on average after that they won't hold a charge (based on 2 UPS I had).


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

A note on MOVs.

The presence of MOvs in a surge suppressor or UPS does not mean it's bad. MOVs are normal components in these devices and in a quality surge suppressor or UPS the MOVs should tolerate hundreds if not thousands of surges before the MOV components fail. A properly designed surge protector will also give an indicator that the MOVs have failed and will no longer indicate that it is providing surge protection.

Panamax is one of the world's leading manufacturers of high quality surge protectors, here's what they have to say about MOV use in surge protectors;

http://www.panamax.com/pdf/mov.pdf


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

I always though there was a big difference between products labeled surge protectors and those labeled surge suppressors. The latter being the preferred unit but in this thread it seems not to be the case?

Also in regards to UPS you need a fairly large unit to handle a CRT since the degauss cycle draws so much power on startup.


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## jlib (Nov 22, 2002)

Rosenkavalier said:


> Reading between the lines, this reinforces what an electrical engineer friend once told me about surge protectors combined with UPS's: it has nothing to do with anything technical. instead, it has to do with the manufacturer's need to factor out the "human nature" element...


Excellent analysis! So, basically it is the power strip format of most surge protectors companies like APC are warning about not the surge protectors _per se_. There are single outlet surge protectors, too, which should help in eliminating the "human nature element"...


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

> I recently picked up a really nice Tripp-Lite Home Theater 1KV UPS with a voltage regulator, digital display, etc, for $99.


I recently compared a similar Tripp-Lite model and two APC units: BX1300LCD and BX1500LCD.

Tripp-Lite: 1000VA, 15 lbs, 11 minutes @250W, $100 from Costco
APC: 1300VA, 30 lbs, 26 minutes @300W, $130 from Circuit City
APC: 1500VA, 31 lbs, 26 minutes @300W, $170 from Circuit City

This is where the weight really counts. The most visible VA/W rating is just a measure of how much current the UPS can supply, not how long it would last. Make sure to check the spec details when you shop for one.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

c3 said:


> I recently compared a similar Tripp-Lite model and two APC units: BX1300LCD and BX1500LCD.
> 
> Tripp-Lite: 1000VA, 15 lbs, 11 minutes @250W, $100 from Costco
> APC: 1300VA, 30 lbs, 26 minutes @300W, $130 from Circuit City
> ...


Rather than having to use weight to try to guestimate which has more battery life, I wish UPS makers routinely posted the amp-hours right next to the volt-amps.

It wouldn't be prefect, since UPSs might vary in efficiency, but it would at least tell you how much battery capacity it had to begin with.

Half the time it seems the only way to find that amp-hour value is to do a web search for replacement batteries for a given model of UPS. The replacement battery packs seem much better about listing amp-hours.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Our pastor had disconnected his PC from the UPS.. (That's another story) Then we had one of those events where power comes and goes rapidly. No damage, but it scrambled the hard disks a little (it had a raid mirror). Relatively easy recovery, but the lesson was that there is also a strong concern for fluctuating power, not just loss of power.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

c3 said:


> I recently compared a similar Tripp-Lite model and two APC units: BX1300LCD and BX1500LCD.
> 
> Tripp-Lite: 1000VA, 15 lbs, 11 minutes @250W, $100 from Costco
> APC: 1300VA, 30 lbs, 26 minutes @300W, $130 from Circuit City
> ...


Not sure where those specs came from. Run times are always estimates but Tripp says that at 50% load the Smart Pro 1000 can run for more like 15 minutes drawing 250 watts.

Also not sure if those APC units provide AVR, which I consider a requirement on a UPS that will be hooked up to anything with a hard drive.

In any event, a 1KVA should hold up a Tivo for at least an hour, and that's what I was after, the ability to finish a recording in the event of a power outtage and reduce the number of power downs/restarts that the Tivo will go through during its lifetime.


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## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

jmpage2 said:


> Panamax is one of the world's leading manufacturers of high quality surge protectors, here's what they have to say about MOV use in surge protectors...


Thanks JM I've seen that statement before and it always surprises me cuz I have seen lots of "surge strips" that have failed; A LOT of them! Apparently the key is "properly designed" and especially that good-quality MOVs are used. I have almost all Panamax equipment here, fully 5 of their whole-house protectors, and then individual ones on every electronic gizmo I own, and that includes Telephone and Ethernet connections since I have a CAT5 underground connecting two houses. Have only had this stuff installed for 1.5yrs now but no probs yet.

As for my new (2 mos) S3, I am VERY happy with my Belkin AV30800-10 which is a UPS as well as surge protector and automatic voltage regulator. Given the Tivo's spinning drive(s) I think a UPS is an absolute necessity. The Belkin also includes both telephone and ethernet protectors so my S3 is fully protected! Highly recommended and you just can't beat $150 shipped (and triple boxed!!!).  

PS someone complained about the heat this unit throws-off but I don't see it (feel it). In fact my Tivo sits on top of it and it seems happy enough.

PPS if you look at the "customer pics" on the Amazon link the back panel shown is NOT correct--it is of an older model that doesn't have the telco or CAT5 protection. This unit does indeed have those much-needed enhancements.


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## 1283 (Sep 8, 2000)

jmpage2 said:


> Not sure where those specs came from. Run times are always estimates but Tripp says that at 50% load the Smart Pro 1000 can run for more like 15 minutes drawing 250 watts.


http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3071



jmpage2 said:


> Also not sure if those APC units provide AVR


yes http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1300LCD


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

c3 said:


> http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=3071
> 
> yes http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BR1300LCD


If someone needs more than 1KV then the APC units at Circuit City seem like a pretty good buy then.


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## captain_video (Mar 1, 2002)

> 1. Is a UPS really needed and will it provide additional protection (other than the obvious of preventing a tivo restart after failures).


Most UPSes only provide power in the event of a power outage that will keep your equipment running for a short duration. If your area is subject to momentary brownouts then a UPS will do what you want. If your power goes out for extended periods then it's really of no importance because it will die anyway once the battery is drained.



> 2. If so, what should I look for in a UPS. I have read posts of some fairly expensive systems ($100 to $500), but would think that I could get something a little cheaper. (I do get an employee discount from major CE retailer, so I'd be paying 60-70% of list).


That all depends on what you want it to do. A couple of things you might want to consider is voltage regulation and line filtering. Voltage regulation keeps everything at a fairly fixed level so your components will operate within the range it was designed for, thereby putting less stress on them and most likely prolonging their lifespan. Filtering keeps extraneous noise out of the supply voltage and therefore makes your audio and video sound and look better (i.e., garbage in, garbage out). Power line conditioners are available for such purposes but don't necessarily include a battery backup. They can be somewhat pricey so you'll have to decide if they're worth it. They can easily run $1000 or more but there are also some lower priced models that will fit most budgets. This is one area where Monster Cable actually builds something useful at a fairly reasonable price.



> 3. Most of the systems I see appear to be designed for computer systems, even providing the software linkage. Would one of these work?


They'll work fine as a battery backup but few of them have the extra features I mentioned above. Some UPSes do include some form of voltage regulation and filtering but mostly they're pretty basic in these areas.



> 4. What size would I need (KVA rating?) if I just wanted to use it for the tivo and tv?


All depends on how long you want to keep your equipment running. I wouldn't worry about a UPS for the TV because it will kill the battery in no time. If you have a cable box or sat receiver connected to your Tivo then I'd have them both connected to the UPS for uninterrupted recording. Calculate the amperage used by each device (wattage divided by 115-volts) and then figure out how long you'd like them to keep operating. UPSes are generally rated in amp-hours or kilovolt-amps (volts x amps = watts) or something along those lines. Based on the wattage or current required by each component and the capacity of the UPS, you should be able to estimate how long they will continue to operate. The actual time will probably be less because the UPS will cease to operate once the output drops below a certain voltage level.



> 5. Should it be placed in line with the surge protector, or as a separate feed?


I'd look for a UPS with built-in surge suppression so you won't have to deal with separate components.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

CCourtney said:


> If your TV is a MicroDisplay (i.e. LCD Rear Projection, DLP, or LCoS (DILA, SXRD)) then you have a UHP lamp in the TV and it needs to go through a cooling cycle with the Fan after the bulb is turned off.


This is not necessarily true. Some newer models such as this one from Samsung utilize an LED backlight instead of a traditional mercury (UHP) lamp.


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## Warhawks (Apr 9, 2007)

gweempose said:


> This is not necessarily true. Some newer models such as this one from Samsung utilize an LED backlight instead of a traditional mercury (UHP) lamp.


True, I am going to be purchasing the HL-T5087s in the coming months, and it is one from the same line. 50" 1080p LED DLP model...instant on, instant off...and the LED lasts MUCH longer than a blub...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

c3 said:


> I recently compared a similar Tripp-Lite model and two APC units: BX1300LCD and BX1500LCD.
> 
> Tripp-Lite: 1000VA, 15 lbs, 11 minutes @250W, $100 from Costco
> APC: 1300VA, 30 lbs, 26 minutes @300W, $130 from Circuit City
> ...


I have the 9 of the older BX1500 models and I also have the extra external battery pack for extended runtime. I'm good for several hours during a power outage with the extended battery. CompUSA used to have excellent sales that gave you the BX1500 plus the extra external battery with penny shipping for around $240. So I have all my electronics on these. I'm good for at least 2 hours of TV watching, 2 to 3 hours on the PC, over 6 hours with my modem and router and 4 to 6 hours with my TiVos. They have worked very well for the last few years. And with the APC software I can set the upper and lower limits when it will go on battery usage and also set it so the alarm never goes off during an outage. That extra battery makes a huge difference in runtime. The only bad thing is it's the same size as the main unit but is sealed so the battery isn't user replaceable like the main unit. Although the whole thing is the battery unlike the main unit.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

Has anyone tried this combo unit?

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/APC-...sem/rpsm/oid/177693/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do


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## RossoNeri (Nov 26, 2005)

One thing I didn't see noted is that one of the worst things for a hard drive is a quick power loss. I have quick power losses/brown outs here in Northern Virginia quite frequently. One has already killed a DirecTiVo hard drive. After that, I run all my DVR's on UPS's, mostly to protect against the spikes that essentially power cycle the drive while the heads haven't had a chance to park.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dr_Diablo said:


> Has anyone tried this combo unit?
> 
> http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/APC-...sem/rpsm/oid/177693/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do


Those work fine with the TiVo. I got a couple of the small versions( less than half the size)(APCBE325) for my girlfriends TiVos. It was mainly to handle spikes and short outages and it works well. I used one of those larger ones temporarily and they worked fine with the TiVos. They are just large for where my girlfriend uses them plus it took me 5 years to get her to the point where she wanted a TiVo, I knew I couldn't convince her to keep the larger UPS.


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