# FIOS "temporary" line from house to street



## Uncle_Steve (Jul 23, 2004)

It seems a very popular mode of FIOS install around here is to just lay a temporary line over the surface of the ground from the street to the house, and then some indeterminate amount of time later, replace it with a buried line. So, if you had a temporary line installed, how long did it take until the permanent replacement was in?

We've rescheduled our FIOS install once so far to avoid the temporary line. (In our case the line would be about 300' long. I can't imagine it lasting for long, either I'd mow over it, or some critter would taste it, or some neanderthal would cut it thinking my alarm system was now disabled.)


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Uncle_Steve said:


> It seems a very popular mode of FIOS install around here is to just lay a temporary line over the surface of the ground from the street to the house, and then some indeterminate amount of time later, replace it with a buried line. So, if you had a temporary line installed, how long did it take until the permanent replacement was in?
> 
> We've rescheduled our FIOS install once so far to avoid the temporary line. (In our case the line would be about 300' long. I can't imagine it lasting for long, either I'd mow over it, or some critter would taste it, or some neanderthal would cut it thinking my alarm system was now disabled.)


This isn't FIOS related, but a number of years ago at the last place I worked we had several phone line issues; Verizon finally determined a number of pairs of the trunk coming into our building from the street were shorting. The tech who finally did this tried to run the new line through the ~6" diameter pipe going from the street into the building where the utility panels were couldn't because his fish tape was too short, so he ran the new wire across the ground "temporarily."

Some 2 1/2 years and at least 10 service calls for various other problems and numerous phone calls explaining it all to supervisors, including conference calls with the various techs who came on site doing repairs who were shocked to see the line on-ground and it was STILL laying on the ground, being held up by hand by the gardeners whenever they mowed, and resulting in a couple service calls every 5 or 6 months to deal with it being cut or otherwise damaged.

Once you let them leave the line on the ground, "it works" and they're done.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

No temporary line here, but a couple of my neighbors had them. Seemed like a long time -- months, I think.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

They do it here how you mention but it isn't a temporary line. It is the permanent line. They just have a separate crew that comes out and buries the line at a later date.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

A couple of folks came out the week before our installation, laid the new line and buried it the same day. However, the local utilities came out prior to to put up flags or spray paint where all of their lines (water, electricity, etc.) were. If VZ doesn't have that info they probably won't dig.

I'd call VZ and inquire/complain and see if they won't commit to getting it right ASAP.


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

Order of Business for me:

1> Placed my order online.
2> About a week later, all the Utility Locator flags are there.
3> A few days later, a temporary line was installed through my yard from the terminal box in my median strip (directly in front of my house.)
4> A few days after that, a DIFFERENT PERMANENT drop was installed to a DIFFERENT terminal box (about 75 yards south) This permanent drop was run all the way to where the ONU would be, coiled up and "nailed" to the brick wall. Apparently, the first one couldn't be buried because of the obstacles (like a 20' storm drain).
5> Date of service install: Everything installed at the house, except fiber drop isn't working. Two hours in to install: Fiber Crews tested the drop, and had to do some re-splicing of a fiber about a 1/4 mile from my house. Voila! Everything up.
6> Date of TiVo arrival: CableCard dude shows up, and 1.5 hours later, I'm TiVo'd and happy as a clam.


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## Boot (Mar 15, 2000)

Is it common to bury it? Ours is strung from the pole to the house.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Boot said:


> Is it common to bury it? Ours is strung from the pole to the house.


Guess it might depend on your neighborhood and your CC&R's (if there are any). Everything is underground in our area.


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## Uncle_Steve (Jul 23, 2004)

Boot said:


> Is it common to bury it? Ours is strung from the pole to the house.


All the utilities in my neighborhood are buried. I imagine if our other wired services were on poles, then FIOS would be too.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

The neighbor has had a temporary line for 15 months now. I've complained to FIOS at least half a dozen times, especially since the cover can't be closed on the in ground box and every time there is a heavy rain it gets washed away. But I finally gave up and now it's been around 15 months with a "temporary line" running across the ground.
Another neighbor had a temporary Comcast line for 12 months. the only reason it was even removed was because they dropped Comcast for FIOS.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

i know that for comcast it's two different departments - one that runs the lines underground. And another that does indoor installs. The indoor install guys I think can also do aerial lines.
So I wouldn't be surprised if FIOS is the same. 

20 years ago they just stuck a spade in the gorund rocked it back and forth to make a slot and stuffed the cable in the slot 6 inches underground. Over the years i guess that's no longer "state of the art" and so they need a guy to come out with a appropriate equipment to rip it in lower.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I had my FIOS service installed in February of 2007. They came out on Friday and ran the fiber optic line above ground and said a crew would come out later to bury it. They had a crew out the very next day (on a Saturday, no less) with jackhammers to bust up the ground since it was frozen. I received a call from Verizon whereby they apologized for the inconvenience and the delay in getting the cable buried. They promptly gave me a $50 gift certificate for my troubles.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

MichaelK said:


> 20 years ago they just stuck a spade in the gorund rocked it back and forth to make a slot and stuffed the cable in the slot 6 inches underground. Over the years i guess that's no longer "state of the art" and so they need a guy to come out with a appropriate equipment to rip it in lower.


Perhaps a few sliced cables made them realize that burying 6" deep in a garden might not be the most cost-effective approach.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

We don't have FIOS here, but I do recall how when the cable company did the original cabling here, they just ran it over the ground. In 90&#37;+ of the houses with cable here, that's still how the cable is, they never did bury it. Lots of problems with bad signal in heavy snow and rain.


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

Most of the time, around here, they use a small "Cable Plow." It's just a vibrating blade on a motorized cart that threads the cable about 4-6" into the ground and leaves very little disturbance to established sod. Usually the only evidence of a cable having been buried is a few mudballs or dirt clods at the surface which disappear the next time you mow.

The "Ditchwitch" is a thing of the past for residential installs.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

oViTynoT said:


> Most of the time, around here, they use a small "Cable Plow." It's just a vibrating blade on a motorized cart that threads the cable about 4-6" into the ground and leaves very little disturbance to established sod. Usually the only evidence of a cable having been buried is a few mudballs or dirt clods at the surface which disappear the next time you mow.
> 
> The "Ditchwitch" is a thing of the past for residential installs.


It's worth nothing that the actual cable plow I have at work is a "Ditchwitch" brand one...


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

It usually takes one or two weeks.

You (or they) should have the other utilities come out and spray paint/mark where their lines are, so Verizon doesn't cut anything else. As my neighbor learned, you should also do this anytime you dig (hence the emergency visit from Verizon and a follow up to bury the new fiber-optic cable two weeks later).

It is nice, you can't even tell where the buried cable is.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> It usually takes one or two weeks.
> 
> You (or they) should have the other utilities come out and spray paint/mark where their lines are, so Verizon doesn't cut anything else. As my neighbor learned, you should also do this anytime you dig (hence the emergency visit from Verizon and a follow up to bury the new fiber-optic cable two weeks later).
> 
> It is nice, you can't even tell where the buried cable is.


Having Miss utility mark the lines has never helped here. Comcast has cut my FIOS line three times, and FIOS has cut the Comcast lines three times. Everything was clearly marked, and the one time I was there I know that Comcast cut the FIOS line on purpose. I pointed it out, and they proceeded to stick a shovel through the fiber line.

Back then I was complaining to FIOS that the fiber needed to be in conduit, but they wouldn't do it so they ended up having to bury the line three times. Of course a year later they decided to put conduit in to all the condos, but since mine is still buried, it would need to be cut again for them to run it in the conduit. And the only reason it hasn't been cut is because around 75% of the units switched to FIOS so Comcast hasn't been digging in the area.


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## oViTynoT (May 18, 2007)

> It's worth nothing that the actual cable plow I have at work is a "Ditchwitch" brand one...


Touche' ! That's funny. True, but funny! Thanks for pointing that out.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

DrewTivo said:


> Perhaps a few sliced cables made them realize that burying 6" deep in a garden might not be the most cost-effective approach.


Now you are thinking that cable thinks past tomorrow?



but yep- I suppose long term they realized they really needed to bury the things.

I live in a ~25 year old subdisvision. There's a fat orange direct burial line properly sunk on one end of my house that goes to a demark box by the phone demarc and my electric meter. But on the other corner of my house- closest to the cable box- is my wifes big old flower bed. Ever time I go in their with a spade or a rototiller or just about anything, I come out with another chunk of rg59 black cable that radio shack sells. It cracks me up that the first time they installed stuff it must have been the old wobbly spade trick.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> It usually takes one or two weeks.
> 
> You (or they) should have the other utilities come out and spray paint/mark where their lines are, so Verizon doesn't cut anything else. As my neighbor learned, you should also do this anytime you dig (hence the emergency visit from Verizon and a follow up to bury the new fiber-optic cable two weeks later).
> 
> It is nice, you can't even tell where the buried cable is.


it's pretty much the law everywhere (I'm just about certain all 50 states did it, and it now may be a Federal law) that anyone digging is REQUIRED to call the local digsafe number days before digging unless it is an emergency.

In fact the feds took 811 back just a couple years ago so you can dial 811 anywhere and get connected to the local dig safe system.

Not certain what the law is everywhere, but in NJ i beleive that property owners even are "supposed" to call themselves when they do any digging- so plant a tree and hit a line without calling and its on you. One caveat here is that they aren't required to mark lines outside the right of way once they hit the meter or demarc. So for example if your water meter is in a pit by the street then they only need to mark out to meter and the line between the meter and your house is a crapshoot what the contractor will do.

Oh- and OSHA would say that excavations near live utilities should be hand dug- no equipment should be used- since the mark outs are so frequently wrong.


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## AkWally1 (Nov 20, 2001)

Portland, OR area here. When they installed it a few years ago, they laid it across the ground but came back early the next morning to bury it. I have heard of Comcast leaving lines above ground for months though, but haven't heard about FIOS having that issue yet.

Mark


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## Uncle_Steve (Jul 23, 2004)

The crew which runs the cable from the street to the house arrived late yesterday afternoon and ran fiber from the street to the house.

The Verizon installer is scheduled to arrive today between 8 and Noon. My guess is he's off somewhere trying to hunt down a cable card.


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## Uncle_Steve (Jul 23, 2004)

The Verizon tech arrived shortly after my last post. I have to hand it
to Verizon, this guy knew his stuff! Everything is installed and
working. My recollection is he finished up around 12:30.

The cable card install in the TivoHD went beautifully. We ordered an
HD STB and a cable card. Both came online at about the same time.

Others have reported that the Verizon "tech wizard" software doesn't
understand TivoHDs and cable cards. However, the version that this
tech had did in fact allow him to activate the cable card at the same
time as the STB.

I'm very pleased.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Uncle_Steve said:


> Others have reported that the Verizon "tech wizard" software doesn't understand TivoHDs and cable cards. However, the version that this tech had did in fact allow him to activate the cable card at the same time as the STB.
> 
> I'm very pleased.


I think the issue is the software doesn't use the same terms as the Tivo does. I know I had this problem when we went to do the activation. We couldn't find the numbers Verizon needed since the software asked for a POD number which isn't what Tivo referred to it as. Also we were in another room connected when he tried to activate the cards so when he got to that screen we went back to the Tivos which no longer had the info on screen and it took us a bit to find the proper menu especially with the terms not matching.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

innocentfreak said:


> I think the issue is the software doesn't use the same terms as the Tivo does. I know I had this problem when we went to do the activation. We couldn't find the numbers Verizon needed since the software asked for a POD number which isn't what Tivo referred to it as. Also we were in another room connected when he tried to activate the cards so when he got to that screen we went back to the Tivos which no longer had the info on screen and it took us a bit to find the proper menu especially with the terms not matching.


that's interesting. POD, if i recall, is the generic FCC term for "point of deployment" decryption module- or something like that. It just happens that the vast majority of them are "cablecards" but I wonder if maybe "cablecard" isn't some term specific only to cable and cablelabs approved equipment and so technically what verizon hands out, although they look the same and act the same, are not in fact cablecards? Verizon is NOT permitted to join the cable assocation and therefor have a say at cablelabs since it is a telco.

Why the FTC, FCC, and every other 3 letter federal agency permits cablelabs to essentially dictate industry standards (which at times become mandates or telcos as with verizon and cablecards/POD's) without allowing telco's to join is beyong me. But I guess they buy off the politicians more than verizon does.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Uncle_Steve said:


> All the utilities in my neighborhood are buried. I imagine if our other wired services were on poles, then FIOS would be too.


Pretty much. Easements and right-of-ways are established by whomever first establishes service. Usually that is the power company, but sometimes it may be the phone company. If neither of those two have an established right-of-way, then whatever utility company wants the right-of-way establishes it. For most CATV companies, the rule of thumb is to follow power to the house. If power is underground, then the CATV cable will usually be underground. If power comes in overhead, then CATV usually does, as well.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> i know that for comcast it's two different departments - one that runs the lines underground. And another that does indoor installs.


It's probably even more diverse than that. Most medium to large franchises have internal installation departments plus they hire out contractors to do installs. Often there may be more than one contractor in town, and some contractors specialize in one or the other. Although all of them are of course paid by the CATV company, which company does your install may be a bit of a craps-shoot.



MichaelK said:


> 20 years ago they just stuck a spade in the gorund rocked it back and forth to make a slot and stuffed the cable in the slot 6 inches underground. Over the years i guess that's no longer "state of the art" and so they need a guy to come out with a appropriate equipment to rip it in lower.


Burial machines have been around a lot longer than 20 years, but they are expensive to purchase and maintain, can be difficult to get into tight areas, and are not suitable for all terrains. Not all contractors have or use them, and indeed even the CATV direct employees may choose not to use one of the available machines. For short runs, especially in rocky or obstructed areas, it easier just to hand dig for a thin cable.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

kaszeta said:


> It's worth nothing that the actual cable plow I have at work is a "Ditchwitch" brand one...


Yep. Ditchwitch makes everything from hand tools to giant excavating machines. They also make directional boring equipment, locators, and drilling equipment for drilling water and oil wells.


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## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> that's interesting. POD, if i recall, is the generic FCC term for "point of deployment" decryption module- or something like that. It just happens that the vast majority of them are "cablecards" but I wonder if maybe "cablecard" isn't some term specific only to cable and cablelabs approved equipment and so technically what verizon hands out, although they look the same and act the same, are not in fact cablecards?


No, they are. I'm pretty sure CableLabs holds the patent on the cards, so anything which functions as a CableCard, actually must be a CableCard. The firmware belongs to the video provider, but the hardware design must be approved by CableLabs.



MichaelK said:


> Verizon is NOT permitted to join the cable assocation and therefor have a say at cablelabs since it is a telco.


Yes, but their use of CableCard technology is voluntary - at this point anyway.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> ...
> 
> Yes, but their use of CableCard technology is voluntary - at this point anyway.


I dont beleive the FCC and verizon would agree- I could be wrong about this specific but i seem to recall that they got caught up in the whole deadline to buy all boxes with cablecards (or at at least PODS or maybe just separable security which in the real world only means cablecards- no?) but that they got a waiver becasue no one makes a qam+IP box with CC.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> No, they are. I'm pretty sure CableLabs holds the patent on the cards, so anything which functions as a CableCard, actually must be a CableCard. The firmware belongs to the video provider, but the hardware design must be approved by CableLabs.
> 
> Yes, but their use of CableCard technology is voluntary - at this point anyway.


Is it? All the new Set Top Boxes and DVRs from FIOS, Comcast etc, use cable cards now. They might not be user removable but they are there.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

lrhorer said:


> No, they are. I'm pretty sure CableLabs holds the patent on the cards, so anything which functions as a CableCard, actually must be a CableCard. The firmware belongs to the video provider, but the hardware design must be approved by CableLabs.
> 
> Yes, but their use of CableCard technology is voluntary - at this point anyway.


Maybe if you are not part of the group, you cannot use the terminology. Is the word "CableCard" trademarked?


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