# TiVo and 2012 cable changes



## DPJohnson (Jan 12, 2011)

I understand that a little over a year from now, in February 2012, cable companies will be required to dump all their analog signals and carry only digital stations and networks. I wonder if this means that instead of seeing, say TBS HD on Ch. 755, we'll see it moved to Ch. 27, or the CBS affiliate leave Ch. 705 and go to Ch. 5 (where my present analog signal for CBS is)? If this is to be the case--and especially if it isn't--what does this mean for TiVo users? Anyone have a clue?


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

To my knowledge there is no requirement to do away with analog. I think however they may be required to keep it until then for the local stations as a part of the transition, but don't quote me on that. I doubt there will be a mass migration of numbers like that (maybe slowly over time though). There is nothing that prevents them from doing this now. They already do it with the digital SD versions of the channels for the STBs and CableCards. The analog channel still exists, but the boxes don't tune to that version and opt for the digital version instead.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

DPJohnson said:


> I understand that a little over a year from now, in February 2012, cable companies will be required to dump all their analog signals and carry only digital stations and networks.


Please cite your (current) sources on this. I skimmed http://www.dtv.gov/ and saw nothing about this being mandatory.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

DPJohnson said:


> I understand that a little over a year from now, in February 2012, cable companies will be required to dump all their analog signals and carry only digital stations and networks. I wonder if this means that instead of seeing, say TBS HD on Ch. 755, we'll see it moved to Ch. 27, or the CBS affiliate leave Ch. 705 and go to Ch. 5 (where my present analog signal for CBS is)? If this is to be the case--and especially if it isn't--what does this mean for TiVo users? Anyone have a clue?


As other posters have pointed out, there is no required digital transition.

What you are thinking of was a rule (07-170) that the FCC imposed on cable providers that required them to do one of the following:
1) carry the digital over-the-air signals in analog for analog subscribers, or
2) provide only the digital signals, as long as all subscribers are provided equipment to allow them to view the digital signals.
This requirement lapses in February 2012, but the commission can review and extend this requirement if it seems necessary, and I have a feeling it will be.

When this requirement lapses, it frees cable providers to finally discontinue retransmitting the OTA signals in analog, without having to provide a tuner to all customers for free.

To be clear: this was strictly a requirement to retransmit the over-the-air signals in analog format for analog subscribers. This has absolutely nothing to do with analog or digital cable channels, although cable providers typically only discontinue transmitting analog OTA channels at the same time that they discontinue analog cable as well.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Another oft-overlooked part of FCC-07-170: this only pertains to "must carry" channels. As you might be aware, many OTA broadcasters have opted out of "must carry," in favor of "retransmission consent," in which cable providers pay to carry the channel. Therefore, these rules do not pertain to them (however, the retransmission consent contract will likely detail whether or not the cable provider has to retransmit the digital signal in analog).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Regardless of whether or not it's a requirement if your cable company does suddenly go all digital there is really no effect on TiVo users other then Series 2 DT users. S1 & S2 users can simply use a box to tune the digital channels and S3/HD/Premiere users will be unaffected as the CableCARD will seamlessly make the transition. The only people it will hurt are S2DT users because they will be forced to use a box which basically turns the DT into a single tuner TiVo.

Dan


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> and S3/HD/Premiere users will be unaffected as the CableCARD will seamlessly make the transition.


That's only if you're using a cablecard in a HD Tivo. Because of the amount of space used up by HD recordings and my need for more capacity, I record very little OTA and everything else is from analog cable. When analog cable goes away, it won't be a seamless transition.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> That's only if you're using a cablecard in a HD Tivo. Because of the amount of space used up by HD recordings and my need for more capacity, I record very little OTA and everything else is from analog cable. When analog cable goes away, it won't be a seamless transition.


YMMV but with Comcast in San Jose they broadcast both SD (480i) and HD Digital versions of the Basic Tier channels. For example in San Joe KTVU (Fox) is currently broadcast on channel 2 in NTSC (Analog) on 89.1 QAM (480i, 4:3) and 78.2 QAM (720p 16:9). If you choose to record the SD channel the recording size is similar to High quality Analog and much better quality IMHO.

Though for complete disclosure since I bought my HD projector and a 1Tb disk I've gone HD for everything.


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## [email protected] (Jan 8, 2008)

Why bother worrying? The world's suppose to end in 2012 anyway.


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## DPJohnson (Jan 12, 2011)

Sorry if I jumped to any conclusions--these regulations and the way they are often written out are so confusing.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

DPJohnson said:


> Sorry if I jumped to any conclusions--these regulations and the way they are often written out are so confusing.


No worries - you posted, then actually read the replies and we all got something from the thread.

Welcome to the forum


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> That's only if you're using a cablecard in a HD Tivo. Because of the amount of space used up by HD recordings and my need for more capacity, I record very little OTA and everything else is from analog cable. When analog cable goes away, it won't be a seamless transition.


As petew pointed out when cable companies do this they typically continue to broadcast the SD version of the channel but as a digital stream. Plus even if your cable company did dump the SD channels the process would still be seamless, you'd just end up with higher quality recordings. Whether that's acceptable to you or not is a different story.

Dan


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> As petew pointed out when cable companies do this they typically continue to broadcast the SD version of the channel but as a digital stream. Plus even if your cable company did dump the SD channels the process would still be seamless, you'd just end up with higher quality recordings. Whether that's acceptable to you or not is a different story.
> 
> Dan


For us if analog goes away we have two TV's that will become non functional. Of the other three, only one has an HD TiVo and it's without CC's. The last two have S2's on them, one a DT and one a Single. I won't rent any boxes and am loathe to use IR blasters in those rooms. I think I only have one set anyway. I think I'd draw the line and cancel service if four of my five sets stopped working without a cable box.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

You should prepare yourself. In a lot of bigger cities the cable companies have already converted all channels except 2-13 to all digital and will likely switch to all digital once the transition period expires. It's only a matter of time before all cable companies fallow suit. (they like you having to use a box because it means you have the option of renting via VOD and looking at their ads in the on screen guide)

Dan


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> It's only a matter of time before all cable companies fallow suit. (they like you having to use a box because it means you have the option of renting via VOD and looking at their ads in the on screen guide)
> 
> Dan


plus they like being able to know the number of drops in the house and the ability to charge fees around these "digital outlets"


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Regardless of whether or not it's a requirement if your cable company does suddenly go all digital there is really no effect on TiVo users other then Series 2 DT users. S1 & S2 users can simply use a box to tune the digital channels


While you're technically correct, I refuse to use a box on my S1, and still record some analog channels with it and my other non-Tivo recorder. I do the majority of recording on my S3 & TivoHD, but still like the analog as 'backup' once in a while.


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Why bother worrying? The world's suppose to end in 2012 anyway.


That's not until December. What will we do for the rest of the year!?


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> For us if analog goes away we have two TV's that will become non functional. Of the other three, only one has an HD TiVo and it's without CC's. The last two have S2's on them, one a DT and one a Single. I won't rent any boxes and am loathe to use IR blasters in those rooms. I think I only have one set anyway. I think I'd draw the line and cancel service if four of my five sets stopped working without a cable box.


Upgrading to HD is not an option for you? The Premiere deals now are very good, and they could easily get even cheaper.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Upgrading to HD is not an option for you? The Premiere deals now are very good, and they could easily get even cheaper.


Even if I replaced my two S2's with HD TiVo's I'd still have two TV's in the house that are useless. In addition, I'd lose MRV when adding cable cards to the HD's. No, I'd likely give it a go with rabbit ears and streaming services and drop cable altogether.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> As petew pointed out when cable companies do this they typically continue to broadcast the SD version of the channel but as a digital stream. Plus even if your cable company did dump the SD channels the process would still be seamless, you'd just end up with higher quality recordings. Whether that's acceptable to you or not is a different story.
> 
> Dan


I'd have to make changes on my Tivo or with my cable, it's not a seemless process.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

Stormspace said:


> No, I'd likely give it a go with rabbit ears.


You'd still have two useless TV's unless you get some sort of box. Analog OTA is long gone.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Stormspace said:


> Even if I replaced my two S2's with HD TiVo's I'd still have two TV's in the house that are useless. In addition, I'd lose MRV when adding cable cards to the HD's. No, I'd likely give it a go with rabbit ears and streaming services and drop cable altogether.


What I mean when I say upgrade is to upgrade to HD, overall, to include your TVs.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

ThreeSoFar said:


> What I mean when I say upgrade is to upgrade to HD, overall, to include your TVs.


I understand, but that's an expensive proposition when a Roku or other internet appliance will keep that screen working as opposed to replacing four TV's in the house.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

It's what I did.

If you can, get a good outdoor antenna (and pre-amp if you are splitting the signal), even if you use it indoors like I did.

My 2-bay UHF antenna hangs off the side of my entertainment center, pointed out the window, and I get not only locals, but 2 Charlotte stations that are over 60 miles away.



Stormspace said:


> Even if I replaced my two S2's with HD TiVo's I'd still have two TV's in the house that are useless. In addition, I'd lose MRV when adding cable cards to the HD's. No, I'd likely give it a go with rabbit ears and streaming services and drop cable altogether.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> I'd have to make changes on my Tivo or with my cable, it's not a seemless process.


It's only seamless on a S3/HD unit. The CableCARDs automatically keep track of which channels are digital and which are analog and map the channel number TiVo uses to the proper QAM sub-channel. SO with a S3/HD you'd probably never even realize if a channel switched to digital.

With a S1/S2 obviously you'd have to switch over to using a cable box which would require recabling everything and rerunning Guided Setup.

Dan


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> It's only seamless on a S3/HD unit. The CableCARDs automatically keep track of which channels are digital and which are analog and map the channel number TiVo uses to the proper QAM sub-channel. SO with a S3/HD you'd probably never even realize if a channel switched to digital.
> 
> With a S1/S2 obviously you'd have to switch over to using a cable box which would require recabling everything and rerunning Guided Setup.
> 
> Dan


Even with an S3 or HD Tivo, it still would not be seamless in my case. You seem to be completely missing the part about not using a cablecard.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If you're not using a CableCARD why do you have a TiVo HD? Do you use a combination of OTA and analog? Or do you just use the HD as a glorified S2?

Dan


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> If you're not using a CableCARD why do you have a TiVo HD? Do you use a combination of OTA and analog? Or do you just use the HD as a glorified S2?
> 
> Dan


What difference does it make?

My initial response in this thread


scandia101 said:


> That's only if you're using a cablecard in a HD Tivo. Because of the amount of space used up by HD recordings and my need for more capacity, *I record very little OTA *and everything else is from analog cable. When analog cable goes away, it won't be a seamless transition.


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## petew (Jul 31, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> What difference does it make?
> 
> My initial response in this thread


I can only speak for Comcast Bay Area and Comcast in Spokane, WA but all three cable cards I have installed were painless. I just drove to the local office picked up a CC, drove home installed it, called the 800 number and read off the numbers, agent activated the card, reran guided setup.

It may not be seemless but I'd rate it as easier than renewing my driving license.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> What difference does it make?
> 
> My initial response in this thread


Apparently I didn't read your first post at all.  Sorry about the smeek.

Dan


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> If you're not using a CableCARD why do you have a TiVo HD? Do you use a combination of OTA and analog? Or do you just use the HD as a glorified S2?


Up until expanded basic switched to digital, I was using my S3 & TivoHD without cable cards.. I got them because of the lifetime transfer offers at the time. (The S3 was waaaaay too expensive in retrospect... But what I paid for the TivoHD including lifetime was reasonable.. I still prefer having the screen on front of the S3 though.)


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> If you're not using a CableCARD why do you have a TiVo HD? Do you use a combination of OTA and analog? Or do you just use the HD as a glorified S2?
> 
> Dan


Not certain if you are aware of it, but the HD upconverts an analog signal enough to eliminate artifacts and banding that occur on S2's when viewed with an HD set. We had to get an HD TiVo when I upgraded the set since the S2 TiVo looked so bad on it.

Also, at this point we value MRV and the ability to pool our tuners for scheduling more than digital or HD.


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