# Revert to "Classic" TiVo interface



## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

We just set up a Roamio OTA and the new interface is TERRIBLE. I've been looking through the menus (who thought a dedicated "back" button was needed, when back on the navigation wheel always worked great?) but I can't find any option to change the interface. Is there a way to change it back, or am I stuck with this cable-box-looking monstrosity of an interface?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


Thanks for the link. I was able to do the rollback. The new interface is SO BAD.


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## tkrotchko (Jun 7, 2007)

curiousgeorge said:


> Thanks for the link. I was able to do the rollback. The new interface is SO BAD.


I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks so. The people who designed it never actually tried to use it. There's just no way.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

tkrotchko said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks so. The people who designed it never actually tried to use it. There's just no way.


I would suggest that everyone who hates it tweet @tivo. They need to forget about this direction for the interface and go back to improving the classic interface with small tweaks like being able to thumbs up and down items on show listings instead of having to go into each show to rate them. Stuff like that.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

curiousgeorge said:


> I would suggest that everyone who hates it tweet.... They need to forget about this direction for the interface and go back to improving the classic interface with small tweaks...


Classic interface is TERRIBLE and a HORROR. It's a monstrosity of a homage to Adobe Flash. How can anyone use this thing? They need to go back to the original Blue Moon interface from '99.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

curiousgeorge said:


> I would suggest that everyone who hates it tweet @tivo. They need to forget about this direction for the interface and go back to improving the classic interface with small tweaks like being able to thumbs up and down items on show listings instead of having to go into each show to rate them. Stuff like that.


It's been over a year, almost a year and a half now. They've heard the feedback. There are no signs it will be acted upon, and signs that it won't.


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

stile99 said:


> It's been over a year, almost a year and a half now. They've heard the feedback. There are no signs it will be acted upon, and signs that it won't.


I had no idea they've been working on this really terrible-looking, resource hog interface for 12-18 months. When our local charter/spectrum changed to tuning adapters and the awful video and problems that come with it, we ditched all our TiVos (we've been TiVo since the start in 1999!) and went to streaming 100%. But the local streams aren't as nice as the OTA ones, so I brought in a Roamio OTA just for the local channels. That plus AppleTV/Plex covers all the bases for us with better quality video and less cost per month. I just hope Tivo doesn't force us into that new terrible interface.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

curiousgeorge said:


> I would suggest that everyone who hates it tweet @tivo. They need to forget about this direction for the interface


NOT going to happen. Cable providers are rolling out the new UI.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

stile99 said:


> It's been over a year, almost a year and a half now. They've heard the feedback. There are no signs it will be acted upon, and signs that it won't.


And with every indication that this is what the cablecos want--and they control. I guess, it looks cool and flashy?


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## curiousgeorge (Nov 28, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> And with every indication that this is what the cablecos want--and they control. I guess, it looks cool and flashy?


But it has terrible performance and is MUCH crappier to navigate. I guess if you've never used better, you'll never know.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

curiousgeorge said:


> But it has terrible performance and is MUCH crappier to navigate. I guess if you've never used better, you'll never know.


I wouldn't even presume to understand the cablecos.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

curiousgeorge said:


> I had no idea they've been working on this really terrible-looking, resource hog interface for 12-18 months


Actually it's probably been over 3 years in terms of working on it (although not released until I think late 2017).

Margret's first presentation on it was in February 2017 and there were also press releases in September 2016.

Press Release | TiVo

Scott


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> Actually it's probably been over 3 years in terms of working on it (although not released until I think late 2017).


First hit Vodafone Spain in Feb 2017: https://www.multichannel.com/news/v...ovider-roll-tivo-s-new-user-experience-411118


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

A lot of folks seem to forget that when Tivo was first releasing the new Tivo interface that Tivo acknowledged that the current retail Tivo base was NOT the target audience, the ISP's were. I suspect that some of the new interface issues with off loading/uploading videos is related to fact that no ISP wants that feature anyway and neither is the hobbyist penchant for upgrading the Tivo hard drive but this is pure speculation. 
Current use with the new interface for retail users seems to be roughly 50/50 (guestimate) but I would not be surprised, assuming Tivo remains in the retail business, that they eventually move everyone to the new interface, just to streamline for support purposes.


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## tkrotchko (Jun 7, 2007)

curiousgeorge said:


> But it has terrible performance and is MUCH crappier to navigate. I guess if you've never used better, you'll never know.


The main problem with it is that if you have multiple Tivos and you want to stream a program from another Tivo, I dare you to find the other Tivos. It's like a game of _Find Waldo_.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

If I rollback, I know I will lose all of my recordings, but will I also lose cablecard pairing with my Roamio Plus Tivo?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

sliderbob said:


> If I rollback, I know I will lose all of my recordings, but will I also lose cablecard pairing with my Roamio Plus Tivo?


I think this was very recently answered in the Rollback thread.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> I think this was very recently answered in the Rollback thread.


Do you know where that thread is, because I cannot find it?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


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## bobfrank (Mar 17, 2005)

sliderbob said:


> If I rollback, I know I will lose all of my recordings, but will I also lose cablecard pairing with my Roamio Plus Tivo?


I tried Hydra when I got my new Bolt a while back. That experiment didn't last long. I did not lose pairing on my cable card.

You can copy your recordings to your PC, or another Tivo if you have it, and then copy them back to the Roamio when you finished *upgrading *back to the classic Tivo interface.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

Well, I just did the rollback and guess what? It lost pairing...getting 89% acquiring channel information...now I am SOL.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sliderbob said:


> Well, I just did the rollback and guess what? It lost pairing...getting 89% acquiring channel information...now I am SOL.


Cable card pairing, as shown in the Conditional Access screen is usually either "V", "?", or just blank. It sounds as if you are running Guided Setup on the TE3 interface and that is failing during the channel list download. That happens after picking your zipcode. I would try a close but different zipcode. If that fails I would select Antenna and see guided setup finishes. Then rerun GS for a cable feed.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> Cable card pairing, as shown in the Conditional Access screen is usually either "V", "?", or just blank. It sounds as if you are running Guided Setup on the TE3 interface and that is failing during the channel list download. That happens after picking your zipcode. I would try a close but different zipcode. If that fails I would select Antenna and see guided setup finishes. Then rerun GS for a cable feed.


Unfortunately my Roamio Plus is Cable only, does not have an antenna input like the regular Roamio.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sliderbob said:


> Unfortunately my Roamio Plus is Cable only, does not have an antenna input like the regular Roamio.


So, it doesn't even ask you to choose? I know it won't work, but it may get you far enough to download the current TE3 software. Then you can switch back.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> So, it doesn't even ask you to choose? I know it won't work, but it may get you far enough to download the current TE3 software. Then you can switch back.


No, the Roamio Plus is cable only...no option for antenna period. The Plus and the Pro were designed differently than the regular Roamio.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sliderbob said:


> No, the Roamio Plus is cable only...no option for antenna period. The Plus and the Pro were designed differently than the regular Roamio.


First, I want to verify the error is that you get an error when the channel list is downloading. That has nothing to do with the cable card. If this is true, try a different (any) zipcode.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> First, I want to verify the error is that you get an error when the channel list is downloading. That has nothing to do with the cable card. If this is true, try a different (any) zipcode.


I get 72% acquiring channel information. I cannot get any channels or the program guide-unless I take the cable card out, then I get a guide, but when I put it back in, I get the acquiring channel info.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

sliderbob said:


> I get 72% acquiring channel information. I cannot get any channels or the program guide-unless I take the cable card out, then I get a guide, but when I put it back in, I get the acquiring channel info.


For what zipcode?


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

JoeKustra said:


> For what zipcode?


84404


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I can't find anything wrong looking at the various guides or Online. Sorry, but you may have to try TiVo.


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## sliderbob (Mar 18, 2008)

I guess rolling back to the original OS wiped EVERYTHING, including the pairing, and needs to be re-paired with Xfinity. Well, dropping cable and just going to OTA with my 8tb Tivo Roamio(finally have it working, just had to be reactivated)-the only Roamio that has OTA and Cable. Oh well, OTA has channels that Cable doesn't...like Comet TV, Court TV, Light Tv, Quest..and others. I only had basic cable, so no big loss.


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## marcv (Dec 1, 2015)

I despise the new interface. Updated my bedroom tivo not realizing how horrific Hydra was going to be. They took everything great about Tivo simple GUI and tossed it into a disaster. I'm actually considering just switching over to Xfinity X1 boxes now. 

I got the promo email from Tivo with their new boxes on sale with lifetime and had they shipped with the classic interface I would have bought 3 of them to replace some older ones in my house (I have 8 full tivo's total here and 5 tivo mini's). I only use 3 tivo's now and slave the mini's off it since comcast charges 8 bucks a cablecard. $8 x 8 tivo's would be $64 per MONTH for cars that cost Comcast $2 each. So that is $768 per year to comcast if I wanted to run all 8 tivo's. Over 10 years that is $7,680. Invest that same money in the market index each month and at 10 years it is worth $11,000! All for 8 cable cars that cost comcast $16. 

So Tivo was and has always been my way out of that conundrum but now I'm kinda blocked in as Tivo moves in the wrong direction.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

marcv said:


> I got the promo email from Tivo with their new boxes on sale with lifetime and had they shipped with the classic interface I would have bought 3 of them to replace some older ones in my house


So just rollback to the prior software/UI.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

[general frustration, including with TiVo] Unless it's a Bolt OTA, which we recently learned cannot sidegrade to TE3, dang it. [/general frustration, including with TiVo]


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

marcv said:


> I got the promo email from Tivo with their new boxes on sale with lifetime and had they shipped with the classic interface I would have bought 3 of them to replace some older ones in my house (I have 8 full tivo's total here and 5 tivo mini's). I only use 3 tivo's now and slave the mini's off it since comcast charges 8 bucks a cablecard


You are referring to an ADO (Additional Digital Outlet) charge and not a CableCARD charge and it's the same if you had a Comcast STB. It should be $9.95 though with a $2.50 COE (Customer Owned Equipment) credit since you are using TiVo versus their STB.

Do you still really need 3 TiVo's versus more Mini's at this time to reduce cost (one of the benefits of TiVo over the Comcast solution with multiple rooms)?

Scott


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## marcv (Dec 1, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> So just rollback to the prior software/UI.


Read my earlier post. Most of my content is copyrighted movies that will NOT transfer to another tivo so all that will be lost. It was NOT lost in the upgrade which is why Tivo should provide a downgrade path or "alternate UI" (just like OS's have themes).

Also I can't even transfer the non-copyright content on the upgraded tivo over as it times out and errors even though I'm on a very fast network. Transfer just isn't stable.

So if I could downgrade and keep all my content would have been done already.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

marcv said:


> Read my earlier post. Most of my content is copyrighted movies that will NOT transfer to another tivo so all that will be lost. It was NOT lost in the upgrade which is why Tivo should provide a downgrade path or "alternate UI" (just like OS's have themes).
> 
> Also I can't even transfer the non-copyright content on the upgraded tivo over as it times out and errors even though I'm on a very fast network. Transfer just isn't stable.


If you are serious about wanting to downgrade, I'd be looking at trying to rerecord those copy-protected movies if possible on one of the other TiVo's and work on resolving the non-copy-protected show issue that you are having. While TE4 has been reported to have transfer issues through TiVo Online, I don't believe that I've seen any general issues transferring to TE3 when performing the transfer from the TiVo running TE3. Is it reporting issues streaming those shows too on the TE3 TiVo or just transferring them?

Scott


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## marcv (Dec 1, 2015)

HerronScott said:


> You are referring to an ADO (Additional Digital Outlet) charge and not a CableCARD charge and it's the same if you had a Comcast STB. It should be $9.95 though with a $2.50 COE (Customer Owned Equipment) credit since you are using TiVo versus their STB.
> 
> Do you still really need 3 TiVo's versus more Mini's at this time to reduce cost (one of the benefits of TiVo over the Comcast solution with multiple rooms)?
> 
> Scott


Fair question and the answer is yes I do need the 3 Tivo's minimum if not one more and the rest I have are mini's to save the Comcast cost. I actually have almost 10 Tivo's here with lifetime service but have the offline ones in storage that I replaced with the mini's to avoid the comcast gouge fee. They used to charge $0 for my cablecards and then if you do the math on 8 cablecards a month times 12 months times 10 years well it's a bit rough. Those cards cost Comcast $2 each one time. I can buy them on ebay for that price but comcast won't let me use my own card. Additionally, I have 2 of the 3 setup in home theaters with Savant and some remote wiring. Swapping a mini in for the full tivo would require programming and new wiring probably well over $1,000 to get theater company to change that. That is equivalent to 100 months of the ADO fee!

So why do I need 3 or even 4 tivos? One is a 4 tuner. One a 6 tuner. One a 2 tuner. There are times where some of the mini's cannot grab a live channel due to all tuners recording or somebody watching one of the unused tuners. We record a lot of shows and things get fairly crowded. I could possibly buy another 6 tuner and kill off the 2 tuner but the reason I didn't was because I hate the new interface and the latest tivo's ship with that so that is why I'm kinda feeling stuck. Plus it is salt in the wound when I have 10 tivo's all with lifetime here of which most I can't use without paying a fortune to comcast now. I know this is not Tivo's fault and do not hold them responsible for the Comcast fees

My hope is in a year or two 5G starts coming online and putting the hurt on comcast so they can no longer charge for extra outlets/cards.


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## marcv (Dec 1, 2015)

HerronScott said:


> If you are serious about wanting to downgrade, I'd be looking at trying to rerecord those copy-protected movies if possible on one of the other TiVo's and work on resolving the non-copy-protected show issue that you are having. While TE4 has been reported to have transfer issues through TiVo Online, I don't believe that I've seen any general issues transferring to TE3 when performing the transfer from the TiVo running TE3. Is it reporting issues streaming those shows too on the TE3 TiVo or just transferring them?
> 
> Scott


Scott,

No problems streaming these to the other 2 tivos of the mini's. Only errors out (like a timeout) when trying to transfer online. I have not tried to transfer one by one each show from the TE4 to TE3. Is there a way to do these in bulk? If I have 150 non-copyright shows I wanna transfer do I have to do each one individually? Again another unnecessary time suck by tivo if so.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

tkrotchko said:


> The main problem with it is that if you have multiple Tivos and you want to stream a program from another Tivo, I dare you to find the other Tivos. It's like a game of _Find Waldo_.


Huh? It's on the "My shows" menu...it is called "Devices." All you have to do is give them meaningful names. We have two Roamio Pros and they are simple to locate and view from any TV.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Diana Collins said:


> Huh? It's on the "My shows" menu...it is called "Devices." All you have to do is give them meaningful names. We have two Roamio Pros and they are simple to locate and view from any TV.


I use numbers. TiVo keeps changing the name on my Premiere. I think it's funny.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

marcv said:


> Read my earlier post.


There is no earlier post than the one to which I replied, which makes no mention of transfer/copyright hurdles:


marcv said:


> I despise the new interface. Updated my bedroom tivo not realizing how horrific Hydra was going to be. They took everything great about Tivo simple GUI and tossed it into a disaster. I'm actually considering just switching over to Xfinity X1 boxes now.
> 
> I got the promo email from Tivo with their new boxes on sale with lifetime and had they shipped with the classic interface I would have bought 3 of them to replace some older ones in my house (I have 8 full tivo's total here and 5 tivo mini's). I only use 3 tivo's now and slave the mini's off it since comcast charges 8 bucks a cablecard. $8 x 8 tivo's would be $64 per MONTH for cars that cost Comcast $2 each. So that is $768 per year to comcast if I wanted to run all 8 tivo's. Over 10 years that is $7,680. Invest that same money in the market index each month and at 10 years it is worth $11,000! All for 8 cable cars that cost comcast $16.
> 
> So Tivo was and has always been my way out of that conundrum but now I'm kinda blocked in as Tivo moves in the wrong direction.



And my post was mainly aimed at the extreme position that you'd upgraded a single DVR and that dissatisfaction with TE4 was preventing upgrade of older boxes ... which isn't an issue since the new boxes can be rolled-back to TE3.

Yeah, protected recordings will be lost when the upgraded box is rolled-back to TE3, but wasn't that a known risk prior to the upgrade?


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## marcv (Dec 1, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> There is no earlier post than the one to which I replied, which makes no mention of transfer/copyright hurdles:
> ​
> And my post was mainly aimed at the extreme position that you'd upgraded a single DVR and that dissatisfaction with TE4 was preventing upgrade of older boxes ... which isn't an issue since the new boxes can be rolled-back to TE3.
> 
> Yeah, protected recordings will be lost when the upgraded box is rolled-back to TE3, but wasn't that a known risk prior to the upgrade?


What I was not aware of was how the entire UI was redesigned. That was the problem. There was no preview. I don't watch these forums. I didn't get the memo. For a decade plus I got tivo upgrades and it was the same interface but with new features or improvements. Then I got "hey update" notice and went ahead with it not knowing it was not like any upgrade since Tivo One. This was a complete overhaul.

As a designer, programmer, software developer, project manager I've been on the other side and I know it takes users some time to adapt which is why I gave it 6 months to see if I could simply enjoy it as it became more familiar. For me it did not. For half the Tivo user base it did not. That is a pretty significant fail.

In my past software rollouts I've been on the developer side of this and with such a sizable negative feedback we simply added alternate user interfaces for those who desired them. Sure it took time and money but users loved us for it and it gave them a choice. Tivo could do the same if they so desired but as many noted this is unlikely.

Ultimately people will vote with their wallets over time. As I showed in the Tivo stock price things are pretty dire with the stock moving from 25 to 7 since 2016. $349 million loss in net income last year. Revenue 2017 $826M and dropped to $695M in 2018. Hmmmm...what changed in 2018? There is some real world feedback.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

marcv said:


> For half the Tivo user base it did not.


Citation?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

marcv said:


> Sure it took time and money but users loved us for it and it gave them a choice. Tivo could do the same if they so desired


That it takes time and money shifts the choice away from "desire."


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## marcv (Dec 1, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> That it takes time and money shifts the choice away from "desire."


True but might also shift users desire to purchase Tivo's products and services. Therein lie the dilemma and gamble...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

marcv said:


> Ultimately people will vote with their wallets over time. As I showed in the Tivo stock price things are pretty dire with the stock moving from 25 to 7 since 2016. $349 million loss in net income last year. Revenue 2017 $826M and dropped to $695M in 2018. Hmmmm...what changed in 2018? There is some real world feedback.


No correlation has been shown between the stock price and the new interface. If anything, that the downward trend began well before the release of Hydra is evidence to the contrary ... that other factors are the more likely cause of the slide. (e.g. DVRs becoming a commodity that most people just get through their provider, DVRs becoming less relevant as streaming becomes the norm, etc)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

marcv said:


> True but might also shift users desire to purchase Tivo's products and services. Therein lie the dilemma and gamble...


A different point than you tried to make above.


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## marcv (Dec 1, 2015)

krkaufman said:


> No correlation has been shown between the stock price and the new interface. If anything, that the downward trend began well before the release of Hydra is evidence to the contrary ... that other factors are the more likely cause of the slide. (e.g. DVRs becoming a commodity that most people just get through their provider, DVRs becoming less relevant as streaming becomes the norm, etc)


I won't disagree. That is also plausible sir.


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