# Bolt with HDMI splitter?



## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

Potential Bolt buyer here (long-time TiVo user, though). I just purchased a new 4K TV and will be using my existing Roamio for the time being to feed the cable signal via HDMI to my Onkyo A/V receiver, which will be upscaling everything to 4K. 

My question about the Bolt is: can I use an HDMI splitter to send one HDMI feed to the TV and another to the A/V receiver so I can still receive the highest quality DTS and Dolby audio signals?

Thanks for your help. . .


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Why? Splitting does not improve the audio.


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## ratinthekitchen (May 19, 2016)

FWIW I have an HDMI splitter which has the Bolt output going to a TV and to an HDMI to composite converter which connects to a Squeezebox which passes the signal to a DVD recorder. No impact on the TV. The only shortcoming, which I haven't figured out, is that the Squeezebox/DVD Recorder do not receive a signal unless the TV is on.

As to audio, I use the optical audio out to feed my receiver.


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

mdavej:

I am not attempting to improve the audio; my current A/V receiver does NOT do 4K passthrough (which I should have mentioned), so to receive 4K content from the Bolt, I have to connect it directly to the TV via HDMI, which would leave me without the advanced Dolby and DTS audio feeds going to the receiver - hence my question about a splitter.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

geodon005 said:


> mdavej:
> 
> I am not attempting to improve the audio; my current A/V receiver does NOT do 4K passthrough (which I should have mentioned), so to receive 4K content from the Bolt, I have to connect it directly to the TV via HDMI, which would leave me without the advanced Dolby and DTS audio feeds going to the receiver - hence my question about a splitter.


The Bolt doesn't send out the highest quality Dolby and DTS. That is DOlby True HD and DTS-HD MA which both use lossless compression.

The Bolt will send out the lossy audio which is DD+ or DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio. Plus the legacy DD/DTS.


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## aspexil (Oct 16, 2015)

geodon005 said:


> mdavej:
> 
> I am not attempting to improve the audio; my current A/V receiver does NOT do 4K passthrough (which I should have mentioned), so to receive 4K content from the Bolt, I have to connect it directly to the TV via HDMI, which would leave me without the advanced Dolby and DTS audio feeds going to the receiver - hence my question about a splitter.


I run the HDMI from the Bolt to the TV and then the optical fiber from the TV digital out to the Bose Cinemate GS II system we have.


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## NJ Webel (Dec 8, 2004)

Most modern 4K tv's will have an audio output connection option, either optical, or ARC (audio return channel) through HDMI.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> The Bolt doesn't send out the highest quality Dolby and DTS. That is DOlby True HD and DTS-HD MA which both use lossless compression.
> 
> The Bolt will send out the lossy audio which is DD+ or DTS-HD High-Resolution Audio. Plus the legacy DD/DTS.


Since when does any Tivo handle DTS audio? As far as I know, the only 5.1 channel audio stream supported by Tivo is AC3 (DD).


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

To answer the OPs question, yes, you can use an HDMI splitter but I do not know of one yet the supports 4K and the DRM that comes with it. For straight HD, there are a number of splitters that spoof the handshaking and send an unprotected signal out several HDMI ports. I use one to drive my Sling.


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

Thanks for all of your help . . . it looks like ARC (which my TV does support - and which I completely forgot about) - is the way to go.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

If your receiver upscales to 4k you should just be able to go from tivo to receiver to tv. Receiver will process the audio then pass the 2160 onto your 4k tv. Bada bing bada boom


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> Since when does any Tivo handle DTS audio? As far as I know, the only 5.1 channel audio stream supported by Tivo is AC3 (DD).


My TiVos send DD+. Like from Vudu and Netflix. Although I haven't tested with DTS-HD HRA. But it is the equivalent to the DD+ audio so it should be perfectly capable of it.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> My TiVos send DD+. Like from Vudu and Netflix. Although I haven't tested with DTS-HD HRA. But it is the equivalent to the DD+ audio so it should be perfectly capable of it.


Tivo has a Dolby licence, not one from DTS. At least they never have in the past. This was why I was wondering if there was something new I had missed in a recent update.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> Tivo has a Dolby licence, not one from DTS. At least they never have in the past. This was why I was wondering if there was something new I had missed in a recent update.


I'll need to copy over an MKV to my bollt, with a dts track to test it out.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mattyro7878 said:


> If your receiver upscales to 4k you should just be able to go from tivo to receiver to tv. Receiver will process the audio then pass the 2160 onto your 4k tv. Bada bing bada boom


He already said in a previous post that his receiver "does NOT do 4K passthrough". (See below)



geodon005 said:


> mdavej: I am not attempting to improve the audio; my current A/V receiver does NOT do 4K passthrough (which I should have mentioned), so to receive 4K content from the Bolt, I have to connect it directly to the TV via HDMI, which would leave me without the advanced Dolby and DTS audio feeds going to the receiver - hence my question about a splitter.


As to the OP's question, unless he would get a 4K capable hdmi splitter, then as already mentioned no 1080i/p splitter would pass the 4K DRM'd signal anyway. Plus even if he had one I believe the Bolt would have to comply with the resolution of the lowest common denominator for the attached displays(4K TV) and/or repeaters(AV Receiver) and only send the highest resolution that the least capable device could support. In this case that's the receiver so the most he'd get out of the bolt is 1080p (or 1080i if it's an even older device).


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I'll need to copy over an MKV to my bollt, with a dts track to test it out.


Not sure how I can do this. I tried a couple of weeks ago but I fogot that PyTiVo transcodes it while transferring. So the couple of MKV files I transferred with DTS tracks also used H.264 for the video. But I think PyTiVo transcoded it to MPEG2 and it definitely changed the audio to Dolby Digital.


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## SolomonJ (Dec 5, 2015)

geodon005 said:


> mdavej:
> 
> I am not attempting to improve the audio; my current A/V receiver does NOT do 4K passthrough (which I should have mentioned), so to receive 4K content from the Bolt, I have to connect it directly to the TV via HDMI, which would leave me without the advanced Dolby and DTS audio feeds going to the receiver - hence my question about a splitter.


Having been struggling with the audio aspect of this the last few days with my Bolt, I hope this helps give you your answer. My Bolt is direct HDMI into my Sony XBR-65X850B. I also have a non-4K A/V receiver that can handle up to DD TrueHD and DTS-MA. The TV, when using the Bolt for Amazon or Vudu titles that have the newer audio audio encoding beyond base DD seem to get down-converted to base DD for transmission via ARC. Only base DD or DTS are supported by ARC, based on my research, as ARC is based on the old HDMI 1.4. But, there is a lot of discussion the industry about improving ARC to support the newer standards. Perhaps another topic needed for that...

Anyway, I ultimately ended connecting my Sony Blu Ray (BDP-S6700) directly to my A/V receiver instead of the TV. That's when I really noticed what I had been missing. The downconversion for ARC was a serious audio impact that I had not realized. My Blu Ray's and DVD's with DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD are now being processed by the receiver natively, giving me rich 7.1 sound that I was not getting using the ARC.

But specific to your question on advanced formats on streaming services, I then tested playing the same Netflix and Vudu titles for comparison. First, using the Bolt through ARC. Second, using the Blu Ray's built in Amazon and Vudu apps. I verified I was getting DD5.1 only from the Bolt via ARC on my receiver's display. Same content through same service on the Blu Ray direct to the Receiver did give me DD+ with 7.1 sound. The improvement is enough, in my opinion, to abandon ARC where feasible.

Additionally, beyond your Bolt specific question, physical Blu Ray discs with DTS-MA or DD TrueHD, had overwhelming improvement in my opinion. Realized I had been missing those and had not noticed the ARC limitations and impact.

So, now, I'm researching 4K 3D capable A/V receivers and considering upgrading them so I don't use ARC for anything until the industry expands its capabilities. I use OnePasses for streaming content frequently on my Bolt. I'll be abandoning them and just manually keeping track of them as I watch them through my Blu Ray's Netflix app so that I do get the DD+ 7.1. I think the 1080p upscaled to 4K by the TV with DD+ 7.1 is preferable to having full 4K with only DD 5.1.

For clarity, I never did try my Bolt through the A/V receiver due to the lack of 4K support. So I am not certain that the Netflix or Vudu apps on the Bolt actually provide anything more than base DD 5.1. I suspect the that they don't. I'm considering this another shortcoming of the Bolt that I'm not very happy about. My first frustration, a topic for another thread as well, was the lack of 3D support. See attached photo from Bolt Vudu app. I guess TiVo didn't think about Vudu offering 3D titles, of which I own several. I have to use the TV's or Blu Ray's Vudu app to watch the 3D titles. And, of course with the ARC limitation, the Blu Ray app is preferable if the title is 3D with DD+ sound.

So, summarizing, I recommend never using ARC if possible. It may be convenient, but it is currently outdated and will not get you the audio you're looking for. Also, I believe the other posters on this thread are correct in saying that the Bolt only supports DD.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

SolomonJ said:


> Having been struggling with the audio aspect of this the last few days with my Bolt, I hope this helps give you your answer. My Bolt is direct HDMI into my Sony XBR-65X850B. I also have a non-4K A/V receiver that can handle up to DD TrueHD and DTS-MA. The TV, when using the Bolt for Amazon or Vudu titles that have the newer audio audio encoding beyond base DD seem to get down-converted to base DD for transmission via ARC. Only base DD or DTS are supported by ARC, based on my research, as ARC is based on the old HDMI 1.4. But, there is a lot of discussion the industry about improving ARC to support the newer standards. Perhaps another topic needed for that...
> 
> Anyway, I ultimately ended connecting my Sony Blu Ray (BDP-S6700) directly to my A/V receiver instead of the TV. That's when I really noticed what I had been missing. The downconversion for ARC was a serious audio impact that I had not realized. My Blu Ray's and DVD's with DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD are now being processed by the receiver natively, giving me rich 7.1 sound that I was not getting using the ARC.
> 
> ...


Some Vudu titles have 7.1 audio tracks. Of course this is with DD+.

I'm surprised you didn't realize this with the ARC. this info is nothing new. The ARC should only be used when people are expecting the legacy audio formats. the Advanced audio codecs have been around for over ten years now and have always been better than using legacy audio.


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## SolomonJ (Dec 5, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> Some Vudu titles have 7.1 audio tracks. Of course this is with DD+.
> 
> I'm surprised you didn't realize this with the ARC. this info is nothing new. The ARC should only be used when people are expecting the legacy audio formats. the Advanced audio codecs have been around for over ten years now and have always been better than using legacy audio.


Exactly! I could kick myself for missing out on it for so long! It sucks getting older and realizing it! LOL!!!

I think when I got my first 4K TV and then the Bolt I was more focused on 4K picture quality, so moved all my HDMIs from A/V receiver to TV input switching. And my ears were not focused like my eyes!!!


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

SolomonJ said:


> Having been struggling with the audio aspect of this the last few days with my Bolt, I hope this helps give you your answer. My Bolt is direct HDMI into my Sony XBR-65X850B. I also have a non-4K A/V receiver that can handle up to DD TrueHD and DTS-MA. The TV, when using the Bolt for Amazon or Vudu titles that have the newer audio audio encoding beyond base DD seem to get down-converted to base DD for transmission via ARC. Only base DD or DTS are supported by ARC, based on my research, as ARC is based on the old HDMI 1.4. But, there is a lot of discussion the industry about improving ARC to support the newer standards. Perhaps another topic needed for that...
> 
> Anyway, I ultimately ended connecting my Sony Blu Ray (BDP-S6700) directly to my A/V receiver instead of the TV. That's when I really noticed what I had been missing. The downconversion for ARC was a serious audio impact that I had not realized. My Blu Ray's and DVD's with DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD are now being processed by the receiver natively, giving me rich 7.1 sound that I was not getting using the ARC.
> 
> ...


OP here . . .and I must disagree. I am using ARC now, and I DO get DD+ from Netflix, Amazon Prime Video and HBO GO, etc. Obviously, I cannot get more advanced audio such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, but those are not available from broadcast or streaming sources anyway, to my knowledge.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

geodon005 said:


> op here . . .and i must disagree. I am using arc now, and i do get dd+ from netflix, amazon prime video and hbo go, etc. Obviously, i cannot get more advanced audio such as dolby truehd and dts-hd, but those are not available from broadcast or streaming sources anyway, to my knowledge.


tv?


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

Vizio P65-C1, Onkyo 818 AVR


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

geodon005 said:


> OP here . . .and I must disagree. I am using ARC now, and I DO get DD+ from Netflix, Amazon Prime Video and HBO GO, etc. Obviously, I cannot get more advanced audio such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, but those are not available from broadcast or streaming sources anyway, to my knowledge.


DD+ is an Advanced audio format. Whether Dolby True HD or DD+ they still have similar requirements. Not sure how you can get it over ARC. Or is this a brand new version of the ARC? I had read where there was a new version in the pipe that could do more. Maybe this is what you have? Otherwise, 99% of the TVs out there can't do DD+ over the ARC. The ARC typically carries the same audio as the optical connection.

EDIT: Yes I see a thread over at AVS that confirms that some TVs and receivers have come out recently that do support DD+ over the ARC. Apparently the Vizio R, P, and M series can do this. And some Denon and Onkyo receivers.

So are you able to get 7.1 DD+ over the ARC? Or does it truncate the two extra channels and just send 5.1 DD+?


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

geodon005 said:


> Vizio P65-C1, Onkyo 818 AVR


I am reading great things on that tv (assuming it is the 2016 model). Not just cnet but also from rtings.com. True?


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> DD+ is an Advanced audio format. Whether Dolby True HD or DD+ they still have similar requirements. Not sure how you can get it over ARC. Or is this a brand new version of the ARC? I had read where there was a new version in the pipe that could do more. Maybe this is what you have? Otherwise, 99% of the TVs out there can't do DD+ over the ARC. The ARC typically carries the same audio as the optical connection.
> 
> EDIT: Yes I see a thread over at AVS that confirms that some TVs and receivers have come out recently that do support DD+ over the ARC. Apparently the Vizio R, P, and M series can do this. And some Denon and Onkyo receivers.
> 
> So are you able to get 7.1 DD+ over the ARC? Or does it truncate the two extra channels and just send 5.1 DD+?


I only have a 5.1 setup, so I cannot confirm whether ARC gets 7.1 DD+ or not. Sorry.


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

thyname said:


> I am reading great things on that tv (assuming it is the 2016 model). Not just cnet but also from rtings.com. True?


It is the 2016 model, and everything you read is indeed true. Fabulous PQ. Seeing Pacific Rim in 4K HDR was simply mind-blowing!

And, since this is a TiVo board, I must say the the set plays very nicely with the Bolt. Excellent PQ from all HD channels (WOW! Cable)


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

geodon005 said:


> It is the 2016 model, and everything you read is indeed true. Fabulous PQ. Seeing Pacific Rim in 4K HDR was simply mind-blowing!
> 
> And, since this is a TiVo board, I must say the the set plays very nicely with the Bolt. Excellent PQ from all HD channels (WOW! Cable)


Thanks! It is out of stock in most stores (or long wait), and sold at full price of $2,000 for the 65". Maybe it will become widely available, and at a discount during end-of-year Holiday season.

The E-Series looks good too, and it is cheaper (on sale for $1,200 on 65"). Other than different HDMI ports capabilities, and some technical numbers on picture levels, I can't see a huge difference between the P and E series (they are both Dolby Vision, and HDR10 coming soon). Thoughts?


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## geodon005 (Mar 10, 2004)

thyname said:


> Thanks! It is out of stock in most stores (or long wait), and sold at full price of $2,000 for the 65". Maybe it will become widely available, and at a discount during end-of-year Holiday season.
> 
> The E-Series looks good too, and it is cheaper (on sale for $1,200 on 65"). Other than different HDMI ports capabilities, and some technical numbers on picture levels, I can't see a huge difference between the P and E series (they are both Dolby Vision, and HDR10 coming soon). Thoughts?


First of all, keep your eyes peeled on price - I actually got it for $1799 at Best Buy back around the third week of June!

The biggest difference between the E-series and P-series is the number of Active LED Zones. The E-series has 12, while the P-Series has 128, which (in theory) should make a significant difference in PQ. (I haven't actually seen an E-Series, so I cannot confirm this).


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