# Hooking up Stream without hardwired TiVo



## ort

http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-stream/?WT.z_links=stream_vanity#networking

The instructions clearly state that you must have a real ethernet connection to both your TiVo Premiere and your TiVo Stream. That they both have to be hardwired into your router to work...

BUT...

I have been told that this isn't actually the case.

I'm specifically interested in wiring the Stream up to my router, but having a TiVo Premiere in another room stream shows.

Has anyone in the real world actually tried this? How was your experience?


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## Dan203

I've done this with a HomePlug network and it works OK for streaming but side loading is really slow. I tried transferring a 1 hour HD program this morning and after 30 minutes it was only about 40% done and said it still had 22 minutes to go. Now this is with the stream connected directly to the wireless router, but the TiVo connected via 200mbs HomePlug. Also the wifi is only g so that might have slowed it down as well. 

I think I'm going to look at converting the HomePlug leg to MOCA and the wifi to n and see if that improves things at all. 

Dan


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## ort

Mine is hooked up via the standard TiVo N adaptor. Hopefully that's what it is. My premiere transfers HD shows from my other TiVo in almost real time. I'd say a 1 hour show takes about 45 minutes or so.

Honestly, it's the streaming I really want. The copying of shows is more like a bonus. I don't plan on using it much.

My other option would be to put another router (an extender) behind my upstairs TV and hook both my premiere and the stream into it.

But that would also require me to put enough space back there for a router, a stream and a Ethernet hub. It starts to get silly after a while.


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## Dan203

Yeah I'm in a mode where I really want to simplify my setup. I have this elaborate multi-room setup with matrix switches and wireless HDMI transmitters. But I only ever use them for TiVos anyway and with all these new streaming capabilities and devices I think I might be able to pare it down to my Premiere, my Elite and one of those Mini things when it's released. Should help with the massive rats nest of cables I have behind my TV right now.

Dan


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## pcbrew

Dan,

Is your HomePlug network the standard or "AV" (200 Mbps) flavor?

In my current setup, I have a Premier and (other things) connected to a gigiabit switch and from there to a HomePlug AV adapter thru powerline to my Gigabit Wireless N router.

Will the heavy HD stream from the Premiere to the Stream go all hardwaired just thru the switch and only the transcoded stream will go over powerline to the WiFi router?


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## Dan203

Yes mine is the older 200Mbps one. Do to the way I have my network setup I had to do it opposite from you. I connected the Stream directly to the router. So for me the bigger MPEG-2 stream is coming across the powerline network and then being recoded and set directly to the wifi router. You setup should work a little better since the bigger MPEG-2 stream will be going over Ethernet and only the smaller recoded stream will be going across the powerline network.

Dan


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## pcbrew

I guess my powerline network speed is pretty crappy.
My streams constantly pause & buffer. The best I can get is ~10s of play, followed by 3-5 sec pauses.

I just ordered the Actiontec Moca kit from Amazon.....


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## Dan203

I ended up ordering one of those too. My powerline was working OK, but I was seeing an occasional pause too. Plus the side loading was really slow.

Dan


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## jfh3

ort said:


> http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-stream/?WT.z_links=stream_vanity#networking
> 
> The instructions clearly state that you must have a real ethernet connection to both your TiVo Premiere and your TiVo Stream. That they both have to be hardwired into your router to work...
> 
> BUT...
> 
> I have been told that this isn't actually the case.
> 
> I'm specifically interested in wiring the Stream up to my router, but having a TiVo Premiere in another room stream shows.
> 
> Has anyone in the real world actually tried this? How was your experience?


One of my Premieres is connected to my network via a TiVo wireless G adapter. Doesn't set any speed records downloading, but it works. However, I did not set up the Stream with only that Premiere on the network.


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## Dan203

Basically if your network has enough bandwidth it'll work regardless of the protocol. TiVo is limiting support to Ethernet and MOCA because both of those are guaranteed to have enough bandwidth for it to work. Wifi has so many different flavors and other limitations that it would be a nightmare to support. But if you have a really good wifi connection it should work fine.

Dan


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## jfh3

I forgot to mention that I have a really good wireless N network that the iPad uses. Even with that, I wouldn't be happy with a wireless TiVo unless it was using a wireless N adapter or on a wireless N bridge.


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## pcbrew

Well, I got my MoCa kit today and decided to do some benchmarking before/after install so I would know quantitatively what kind of speed improvements I would see.

First, let me explain that I have a lot of wired equipment in the office so I have a 4-port gigiabit switch (D-Link DGS-2205) hanging off my Wireless-N gigabit router (WRT320N).

The first thing I did was run internet speedtest
- Wired desktop (router): 10 Mbps/ 0.9 Mbps Down/Up (Time Waner Cable)
- Wireless N laptop: 10 Mbps/ 0.9 Mbps Down/Up
- Wired laptop to switch: 2 Mbps 0.2 Mbps Down/Up *<-- what's going on here*
- Wired laptop to router: 10 Mbps/ 0.9 Mbps Down/Up *<-- Interesting*

Transfer a ~150MB video file from Home server 
- Wired desktop: ~300 Mbps
- Wireless N laptptop: 21 Mbps
*- Wired laptop to switch: glacial - initial estimate was < 0.5 Mbps*
- Wired laptop to router: ~300 Mbps

Obviously something was wrong and after power-cycling the switch, the performance matched the direct router connection.
Since my powerline adapter was fed from the switch so I thought this could have been why my streams were always crappy and unusable and, sure enough, with the switch operating as expected, my streams played without any issues! Great, but ticks me off I bought the MoCa kit for a non-issue.

Since I have it, I will install the MoCa adapter tomorrow and see what kind of performance I get. I will probably leave the powerline setup installed and just move the adapter up to the small media room I have and replace the Wireless-N access point/bridge that's in there as it's a little challenged due t the long distances and number of walls between it and the access point.


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## Dan203

I ran tests on my network before, using 200 AV powerline, and after using MOCA and the difference was substantial. Transferring via TTG from Elite on one end to PC on the other I went from 2.6MBs to 5.8MBs. I also tried side loading to the iPad and that was a little fater, but not significantly so I also bought an 802.11n access point to replace my 802.11g to see if that helps. I just set that up and haven't had a chance to run a speed test yet. 

Dan


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## Ryan Nelson

I've been using the Stream for a couple of days with two Tivo's (neither hardwired) and it works perfectly. 

My network consists of two Tivo Premiere's (both on Tivo wireless N adapters), Tivo Stream, iPad 2, two iPhone 4S phones, generic cable modem, wireless g laptop, PC server running Tivo desktop over wired cat5 to router, and an Asus RT-N56U dual band wireless N gigabit router.

I highly recommend the Asus router. Previously I had all sorts of issues streaming using a linksys g router. I set up the dual band Asus router to use the 5Ghz frequency for just the two Tivo Premieres and the 2.4Ghz frequency for everything else (ipad, iphones, laptop, thermostat, etc). The tivos stream tivo to tivo instantaneously as well as using Tivo Stream to ipad. No glitches and its super fast. Using TV Desktop to my PC server I get 50mbit/s easily from each Tivo. I can even download a show from each of the Tivo Premieres at the same time via Tivo Desktop to the PC and I get real world speed of 100mbit/s. With dualband you get two SSID's - one for each band. 

I can't recommend a dual band wireless router enough. The Asus RT-N56U is expensive at $105 but has worked flawlessly since March 2011 with my Premieres. I see Asus makes other dual band models now also.


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## aaronwt

You should try the custom firmware for the RT-N56U. It makes it even better. I recently returned my EA-N66 AP to get a second RT-N56U to use as an AP. Because of how much better the custom firmware is over the Asus official firmware.

http://code.google.com/p/rt-n56u/

Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner


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## jfh3

I use the Asus RT-N66U. A bit more than some, but fantastic wireless range and performance, especially on 5ghz


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## DaveMachin

Just to add to the information - I've got one Premiere on a G wireless adapter and an Apple airport router. Got the Stream from Best Buy yesterday, and connected it to the router directly - the TiVo is still wireless. Streaming to the iPad works perfectly. A second simultaneous stream to a second iPad pauses often. So, looks like one stream on G is OK, but two is too much.

Also, I had the Stream delivered to BB for pick up. I got the email saying it was ready to pick up; when I got there, someone had brought the wrong product up to the front (a TiVo N adapter) - so they had to call to the back and get the Stream. It took about 5 minutes and they gave me 10% off for waiting


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## ort

Good to know!

I think I'll pick up a Stream next month.

Too many expenses and too much going on this month.


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## xraytech

The initial set-up needs to be hardwired. After that, just reestablish the WiFi connection between your TiVo Premier via TiVo Wireless N Adaptor and WiFi Router and you're golden.

Steaming works just fine.

Side loading an hours worth of programing @ the highest resolution, takes about 20 mins

Beware Jailbroken iOS devices!!!

The TiVo App will not work on a Jailbroken iPad, iPhone or iPod Touch


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## ort

Wait, the initial setup needs to be hardwired? That's a pain in the butt.

I would have to drag my TiVo downstairs?


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## Dan203

That's not true. The setup is done through the iPad app, which itself is wireless. That poster doesn't know what they're talking about.

Just put it wherever you plan to use it. It's all just networking, it'll work no matter where it is.

Dan


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## ThomasAlexHD

Dan203 said:


> Basically if your network has enough bandwidth it'll work regardless of the protocol. TiVo is limiting support to Ethernet and MOCA because both of those are guaranteed to have enough bandwidth for it to work. Wifi has so many different flavors and other limitations that it would be a nightmare to support. But if you have a really good wifi connection it should work fine.
> 
> Dan


I have FIOS with an Actiontec N router and two Tivo Premieres using Tivo wireless N adapters. It took a while to get them configured properly to stream between themselves without issues, but that happened about a month ago. So I decided to go with your advice and other similar comments, and installed a Stream last night. It is hooked directly into the router via Ethernet, and the Tivos are still using the Wireless N. At no point did I have to create even a temporary wired connection for either Tivo. Basically, I just plugged the Stream into the router and a power strip.

Then I updated the Apple OS on an Ipod Touch, brought the Tivo app down to it, and started the Stream setup from the iTouch. I needed to sign in to my Tivo account to activate the Stream. That took maybe 15 minutes to happen on the Tivo servers. Then I had to run Network Diagnostics once on each Tivo box to get them updated to know about the Stream. Then I selected each Tivo box in turn in the app, entered the Media Key for the Tivo DVR, and waited through the app's last step (testing streaming). Pretty painless except I didn't realize I had to select each box after running ND to complete the process for each box.

So far, I watched about 10 minutes of recorded TV right away on the iPod Touch to check things out, then downloaded a two hour movie and checked a few minutes of it to see that it looked OK. Then I watched about 40 minutes of a prerecorded soccer game. It glitched at one point but recovered when I shut the app down and restarted. So all in all, this was a highly successful install cycle.

I agree that there's a difference between what Tivo will support and spend time on with you vs what may work. In this case, it's the wired vs wireless boundary. If you have wireless Tivos now and can't stream between them successfully, I would think streaming to the Stream is likely to fail as well. If you have two wireless Tivos using N, a good router, plenty of bandwidth and you can stream between the Tivos now, a Stream may work for you despite being not supported. It could go either way...

Update a day later: watched 40 minutes of a recorded show without a glitch. Used the 30 second skip forward and 8 second skip back for the first time since the show contained commercials (ugh). All worked as expected. These are shows recorded in HD and the iPod Touch is a gen 4 with the first Retina display. Picture quality is excellent.


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## FiddyownzX1

ort said:


> http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-stream/?WT.z_links=stream_vanity#networking
> 
> The instructions clearly state that you must have a real ethernet connection to both your TiVo Premiere and your TiVo Stream. That they both have to be hardwired into your router to work...
> 
> BUT...
> 
> I have been told that this isn't actually the case.
> 
> I'm specifically interested in wiring the Stream up to my router, but having a TiVo Premiere in another room stream shows.
> 
> Has anyone in the real world actually tried this? How was your experience?


I will tell you exactly what TiVo will tell you.

Not Supported.

Bottom line (Despite the uninformed comments on some of these forums) Wireless is not fast enough for the TiVo Stream to operate correctly.

It's designed for a wired network, use on a wireless network even with an N Adapter will probably lend bad results.


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## Dan203

FiddyownzX1 said:


> Bottom line (Despite the uninformed comments on some of these forums) Wireless is not fast enough for the TiVo Stream to operate correctly.


That's not true. You'll never see a cable or OTA recording exceed 20Mbps, and the Stream recodes at a bitrate of 2.24Mbps. So even if you throw in some overhead you'd never exceed 25Mbps. In the real world a 802.11g connection operates at about 30Mbps, so if you're still using a G network you may be pushing it. However 802.11n runs at around 150Mbps in the real world and should be able to handle the Stream no problem. You probably wont be able to do the maximum 4 streams at once, but one should work OK.

Now obviously signal quality, interference and other network traffic can effect it. But for most situations an N network should work fine, and a G network might work under optimal conditions.

Dan


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## jay_man2

FiddyownzX1 said:


> I will tell you exactly what TiVo will tell you.
> 
> Not Supported.
> 
> Bottom line (Despite the uninformed comments on some of these forums) Wireless is not fast enough for the TiVo Stream to operate correctly.
> 
> It's designed for a wired network, use on a wireless network even with an N Adapter will probably lend bad results.


Could have fooled me. I saw no difference in performance recently when streaming the same show from a wired TiVo to an iPad and my wireless N-adapter TiVo to an iPhone at the same time.


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## ThomasAlexHD

Dan203 said:


> ...
> Now obviously signal quality, interference and other network traffic can effect it. But for most situations an N network should work fine, and a G network might work under optimal conditions.
> ...
> Dan


One side note on signal quality for Tivo to Tivo streaming using the Tivo N adapters - it's apparently important that you have a top-notch signal to get reliable glitchless streaming. You can have a weaker signal that is perfectly adequate for hitting the Internet, getting the Guide data, etc, but not good enough to do streaming.

While trying to get my streaming working reliably, the power went out a few times. Getting streaming back was very problematic. I learned two things from online posts that helped:

1. Sometimes after a short power outage or Tivo restart, something remains set in that box that can prevent the box from being found via the network. It can still dial out, get the Guide data, etc - it just can't be accessed for streaming by the network. The solution that seemed to work: unplug the box, leave it off for at least 30 minutes (apparently clearing some kind of persistent buffer memory), then turn it back on.

2. Back to signal quality: I have one Tivo in the room with the router, and a second one downstairs with some intervening walls. After reading advice to get the best possible signal, I extended the N adapter's cable as far as I could towards the router, with great success. That difference of five feet or so was the difference between very glitchy streaming and streaming so smooth you couldn't tell which box you were watching.


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## scottfehr

Wanted to share my experience for others looking into the wireless only option. I have only one Premier, and have it using the wifi adapter. I hooked up my Stream last night and the setup went fine.

Net result is similar to a couple of others in this thread, I can download shows (slowly, but that's ok) but when I try and stream, I get about 10 seconds worth and then it stops. Rinse, repeat, not watchable.

So I broke down and ordered the Actiontec Verizon Coaxial Network Adapter MOCA thingy. Got it for $74 free shipped on ebay. More expensive than I think it should be, but for me the ROI is still good because it means we can use our two Ipads as second TV's, which was the main goal for me.

I'll report back with the (hopefully positive) results once it's here.

edit: My biggest complaint so far has nothing to do with the Stream, but rather the copyright issues that prevent me from downloading most of my favorite shows, e.g. anything HBO.


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## wrecklass

I tried with the TiVO connected over Wireless N and found that I could not stream HD programs without a lot of buffering every few minutes. I switched the TiVo to a 200mbps Home plug power adapter and the Stream connected directly to a wired port on the Wireless AP/router. That has worked fine for me without any issues watching full HD video on the iPad.

Again, I wish they had the horsepower in the TiVo to do the transcoding directly and we didn't need all of this extra hardware and networking bother.


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## scottfehr

Got the Actiontec MOCA piece yesterday. Took about 5 minutes to connect and works exactly as advertised - now streams in real time flawlessly.


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## ducker

scottfehr said:


> Got the Actiontec MOCA piece yesterday. Took about 5 minutes to connect and works exactly as advertised - now streams in real time flawlessly.


Don't you need 2? One at your router/cable modem, and one at your Tivo box?

I'm in your boat too... When I'm on my PC late at night, I can easily transfer over a show or two - but it's slow, and sometimes lose the connection (the wifi to the premier box)

I'd love to go the MoCA route, but I figured I needed to get two of those.


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## Dan203

Depends. The Premiere 4, XL4 and Elite units have MoCa built in so if you have one of those then you only need a MoCa adapter on the router side. FIOS, and a few other cable companies, also supply routers with MoCa built inso on that case you only need an adapter on the TiVo side. Or maybe not at all if you have FIOS and an Elite/XL4/4 unit. 

If you have a standard Premiere and a standard router, then yes you will need one at each end. They sell a combo pack with 2 for about $120 so it's a little cheaper then buying them individually. 

Dan


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## ducker

So yea, bummer. I have a standard premiere. And when I looked at my Fios cable modem I don't see any type of second coax connection. So it looks like I'd have to get a double kit that you mentioned. Thanks.


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## wkearney99

You'd use a splitter on the coax. Then you'd have to use a Moca adapter (coax-to-ethernet) for anything else needing a wired network connection. 

But, truth be told, it's a lot less hassle to just run the CAT5 wire needed. No screwing around with adapters, just a simple bit of wire. If you have coax going there then just run the CAT5 along with it. It will be a lot less trouble in the long run.


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## Dan203

ducker said:


> So yea, bummer. I have a standard premiere. And when I looked at my Fios cable modem I don't see any type of second coax connection. So it looks like I'd have to get a double kit that you mentioned. Thanks.


It doesn't need an "extra" coax connector, MoCa runs on the same coax cable that caries your video signal. I'm pretty sure all FIOS routers have MoCa built in, but you might want to search your specific model number just in case. If not you may be able to just get a different one from Verizon and save your self the $ for two adapters.

Also ignore the previous post about needing a splitter, you don't. The MoCa adapters have a pass through port built in. You just connect the cable from the wall to the adapter and then a short cable from the adapter to the TiVo. Also I disagree that it's easier to run Cat-5. I live in a two story house and there is simply no easy way to run Cat-5 from upstairs to down stairs. However coax is already run to both locations on the outside of the house so using a MoCa network was as simple as just plugging into the adapter.

Dan


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## wkearney99

Well, it would depend on where the cabling is run and where he wants to place the MOCA bridge. Yes, if you're going to daisy-chain the stuff and the cabling is right there then of course you'd use the in/out connections. 

I seem to recall having a Motorola MOCA device that was single-ended, without a pass-through. But I could be wrong and since it's buried in ton of boxes until we move back to the new house I can't confirm otherwise.

As for the routers, any of the Actiontec ones I've had for FIOS supported it. The trick is whether you're using the standard ONT-to-router connection over coax or over ethernet. If you're using an ethernet connection to the ONT then there's some configuration hurdles to leap. But either you'd still only need one MOCA bridge at the Tivo end.

I still come back to the notion that says that in the long run it's a lot less trouble to use an actual wired ethernet link. That will 'just work' and stay that way regardless of any reconfiguration or updates they might push to the router.


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## Dan203

If running cables is an option then of course Ethernet is the best option. However the whole reason technologies like MoCa or Homeplug even exist is because in a lot of cases running wires is not an option.

Dan


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## wkearney99

Dan203 said:


> If running cables is an option then of course Ethernet is the best option. However the whole reason technologies like MoCa or Homeplug even exist is because in a lot of cases running wires is not an option.


Or one naively/ignorantly assumed not to be worth pursuing.

Honestly, the ease with which the wire can be pulled is a lot more trivial than people often assume. And the on-going headaches with the alternatives are worse. If there's a coax line pulled then adding the twisted pair for ethernet is certainly not going to be any more difficult. Yes, there a certainly situations where it could be problematic, but those are FAR outnumbered by cases where it'd be trivially simple.

My point is that: keep is simple. Pull the wire once and it will just stay working. I say this having tried various the kludges over the years and the time/money wasted on the powerline, moca, wifi and other hacks always ends up being worse than if a wire was pulled.


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## Dan203

As I said above in my house pulling a wire was not an option. The coax is run on the outside of the house to traverse the 1st and 2nd floors. There is no way to get a cable from upstairs to downstairs other then maybe using the ducting which requires special, expensive, flume rated cat-5 cables or going outside which also requires special, expensive, outdoor rated cables. Hooking up a MoCa adapter took 3 minutes and has worked flawlesssly ever since. (running for about a month now without a single issue) It might have been better to run cat-5, but it would have been significantly more difficult and expensive for me to do so. 

Dan


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## scottfehr

ducker said:


> So yea, bummer. I have a standard premiere. And when I looked at my Fios cable modem I don't see any type of second coax connection. So it looks like I'd have to get a double kit that you mentioned. Thanks.


Your FIOS router acts as the second MOCA unit by default, so you don't need to do anything with it. All you do is take the existing coax cable going into your Premier, split it with the 1:2 splitter included in the box with the Actiontec adapter.

The Actiontec also includes a pair of 1 meter coax cables in the box. One goes from the splitter to the Tivo Premier, the other goes from the splitter into the MOCA adapter. Done.

This is the one I bought (I got mine on ebay for a few bucks less)

http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ver...810566&sr=1-3&keywords=actiontec+moca+adapter


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## ducker

scottfehr said:


> Your FIOS router acts as the second MOCA unit by default, so you don't need to do anything with it. All you do is take the existing coax cable going into your Premier, split it with the 1:2 splitter included in the box with the Actiontec adapter.
> 
> The Actiontec also includes a pair of 1 meter coax cables in the box. One goes from the splitter to the Tivo Premier, the other goes from the splitter into the MOCA adapter. Done.
> 
> This is the one I bought (I got mine on ebay for a few bucks less)
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ver...810566&sr=1-3&keywords=actiontec+moca+adapter


*wince* after getting the wife to approve the purchase of the Stream, I doubt I'd be able to convince her to spring for another $80 or so at least not right now 

Check that - it looks like they are around $90


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## BigJimOutlaw

The Tivo site sells moca adapters for $50. Still not cheap but it's cheaper than most other locations.


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## wkearney99

Dan203 said:


> As I said above in my house pulling a wire was not an option. The coax is run on the outside of the house to traverse the 1st and 2nd floors. There is no way to get a cable from upstairs to downstairs other then maybe using the ducting which requires special, expensive, flume rated cat-5 cables or going outside which also requires special, expensive, outdoor rated cables. Hooking up a MoCa adapter took 3 minutes and has worked flawlesssly ever since. (running for about a month now without a single issue) It might have been better to run cat-5, but it would have been significantly more difficult and expensive for me to do so.
> 
> Dan


First, inside a duct is called 'plenum' rated, a flume is something you'd ride at the amusement part.

Second, it's a common argument tactic to just label things expensive as a quick way to dismiss the idea. I purposefully didn't mention the high cost of MOCA adapters. Not just because they're expensive but because they're a LOT more expensive than wire. And still bring along the long-term hassle. More money and on-going adventures vs simple wire.

I wouldn't think that logic is hard to understand. Combine their expense with network performance and compatibility issues and it really makes these look like they're more trouble than they're worth. Compared to just simple wire, that is.

There's another thing to consider, what else might be at that location that could use network connectivity. Like another streaming device (apple tv, roku, etc), an additional wireless access point or perhaps a home theater PC.

Just think seriously and honestly about what will work reliably long term before spending the money either way.


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## Dan203

wkearney99 said:


> First, inside a duct is called 'plenum' rated, a flume is something you'd ride at the amusement part.
> 
> Second, it's a common argument tactic to just label things expensive as a quick way to dismiss the idea.


1000' of plenum rated cat5e is $175 from Monoprice. A MoCa adapter is $50 from TiVo. (See here) Outdoor cat5e is a little cheaper at $122 for 1000' but it's still cheaper, and easier, to buy two Moca adapters.

As for speed... You're right there are compromises with speed. But when it comes to TiVo it doesn't really matter. TiVo's are limited by other factors. When you transfer something between two TiVos, or TiVo to PC, there is an encryption process involved that is CPU bound and will never saturate even a MoCa network. For the Stream they're using MRS which is a little different, but the stream itself can still only recode at about 1/3-1/2 realtime. For a full HD stream that's still only about 40Mbps. If you're transferring large files between two PCs then MoCa may not be sufficient, but for TiVo use it's fine.

Dan


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## supasta

I am using an Apple Airport Extreme based wireless network. The TiVo Stream is connected via ethernet to the Extreme. 
I then have a AirPort Express set as a wireless bridge hardwired to a 5-port Netgear switch. This is all housed in the media center in an adjacent room and connects to all of my devices with ethernet. 

The TiVo Stream works flawlessly. No stuttering and excellent response. Transfer times are comparable to times suggested by TiVo. 
This may be another option, although cost may still be a sticking point ($99). I was also in a position that running wiring was not an option. 

Of note, the same setup did work well with both the TiVo and the Stream connected to the switch and then to the Express, but space was at a premium in the cabinet, so I moved the Stream.


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## PROxac

Dan203 said:


> 1000' of plenum rated cat5e is $175 from Monoprice. A MoCa adapter is $50 from TiVo. (See here) Outdoor cat5e is a little cheaper at $122 for 1000' but it's still cheaper, and easier, to buy two Moca adapters.
> 
> As for speed... You're right there are compromises with speed. But when it comes to TiVo it doesn't really matter. TiVo's are limited by other factors. When you transfer something between two TiVos, or TiVo to PC, there is an encryption process involved that is CPU bound and will never saturate even a MoCa network. For the Stream they're using MRS which is a little different, but the stream itself can still only recode at about 1/3-1/2 realtime. For a full HD stream that's still only about 40Mbps. If you're transferring large files between two PCs then MoCa may not be sufficient, but for TiVo use it's fine.
> 
> Dan


what kind of house do you live in that would need 1000' between the router and your TiVo?? I live in a large 2 story house and I ran cat6 to each room from our "office" where I have my main switch and modem/router located, and I was no where close to 1000'. Also you can buy pre-made cables in 3', 6', 10', 25', 50', 100', and even 150+ lengths - fine for most people. You can simply run them along with the coax (like what was already said) with not much effort. You then have the expansion on your network to run anything you will ever need, have no potential software/hardware issues, no power on/off issues, and it is a guaranteed connection between the 2 ends of the cat6. 
And there is no other (MoCa / power line) hardware required  :up:
I am gigabit to every room in my house, we have 3 TiVos with Blu-Ray, Xbox, Wii, etc at each TV - MoCa / power line adapters would "work" and be slow and aggravating, what I have is always on and never the issue when something is not working.

Now all that said, 
I am looking to put a stream in at my mother-in-laws which is on the other side of the country. I am not sure what the attic / crawl space / roof options are for running a wire at her location, and I will not be there to do it, so we are looking at either MoCa or power line. I have used mega Plug AV (200mbps) in the past but it was not for the stream. I see mixed reviews about it working for the stream so ...
... I am looking at these 2 possibilities to send to my mother-in-law:
ZyXEL Powerline AV 500 Mbps 4 Port Gigabit Switch (would give the option of more ports down the road)
or
Actiontec Ethernet to Coax Adapter Kit

Has anyone tested the 500 mbps power line options with the stream? 
It is rated for more speed than the MoCa - is it real? 
MoCa is supported and _tested _even though it only offers 175mbps. 
*Feedback please*?


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## PROxac

PROxac said:


> I am looking to put a stream in at my mother-in-laws which is on the other side of the country. I am not sure what the attic / crawl space / roof options are for running a wire at her location, and I will not be there to do it, so we are looking at either MoCa or power line. I have used mega Plug AV (200mbps) in the past but it was not for the stream. I see mixed reviews about it working for the stream so ...
> ... I am looking at these 2 possibilities to send to my mother-in-law:
> ZyXEL Powerline AV 500 Mbps 4 Port Gigabit Switch (would give the option of more ports down the road)
> or
> Actiontec Ethernet to Coax Adapter Kit
> 
> Has anyone tested the 500 mbps power line options with the stream?
> It is rated for more speed than the MoCa - is it real?
> MoCa is supported and _tested _even though it only offers 175mbps.
> *Feedback please*?


Anyone?


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## jrtroo

The stream is not a radio- it can be anywhere hardwired in the network. Put it in a closet next to the router.


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## PROxac

jrtroo said:


> The stream is not a radio- it can be anywhere hardwired in the network. Put it in a closet next to the router.


?

Her current Tivo is using WiFi, I need to get either of the options in my post to use in place of WiFi so she can use the stream. The stream will go right with the router in another room, I got that covered heh.


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## Dan203

If the wifi is N and has a good connection then it mig work OK. This is all just networking. The TiVo is streaming a program to the Stream box just like it would if you had two TiVos and where trying to watch the program in another room. The Stream then recodes to H.264 and sends that over to your iPad.

So if there is a dedicated wifi N bridge between the TiVo and the leg of the network the Stream is connected to it'll likely work just fine. If the iPad and the TiVo share the same wifi network then it might still work, but you'll be pushing it.

I had an AV200 powerline networking bridge when I first bought my Stream. It worked fine. Downloads were slow, but streaming worked fine. At least for one iPad anyway. 

I switched to the Actiontech MoCa adapter and streaming still works fine and downloads are now twice as fast. 

Dan


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## PROxac

Dan203 said:


> If the wifi is N and has a good connection then it mig work OK. This is all just networking. The TiVo is streaming a program to the Stream box just like it would if you had two TiVos and where trying to watch the program in another room. The Stream then recodes to H.264 and sends that over to your iPad.
> 
> So if there is a dedicated wifi N bridge between the TiVo and the leg of the network the Stream is connected to it'll likely work just fine. If the iPad and the TiVo share the same wifi network then it might still work, but you'll be pushing it.
> 
> I had an AV200 powerline networking bridge when I first bought my Stream. It worked fine. Downloads were slow, but streaming worked fine. At least for one iPad anyway.
> 
> I switched to the Actiontech MoCa adapter and streaming still works fine and downloads are now twice as fast.
> 
> Dan


currently 802.11g so its going to get replaced with one of the 2 options I have in my earlier post:


PROxac said:


> ... I am looking at these 2 possibilities to send to my mother-in-law:
> ZyXEL Powerline AV 500 Mbps 4 Port Gigabit Switch (would give the option of more ports down the road)
> or
> Actiontec Ethernet to Coax Adapter Kit
> 
> Has anyone tested the 500 mbps power line options with the stream?
> It is rated for more speed than the MoCa - is it real?
> MoCa is supported and _tested _even though it only offers 175mbps.
> *Feedback please*?


the AV 500 specs show it faster than the Actiontec, but TiVo likes the Actiontec so I suppose that is what I should use in spite of speed.


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## Dan203

I've never used the AV500, but from what I understand it's highly dependent on the quality of the electrical wiring and the noise introduced by the electrical devices connected to the house. The coax lines tend to only have a couple things connected so interference is a lot less likely so in most cases MoCa works better even though it has a lower theoretical speed.

Remember to get a POE filter if you're going to get MoCa. Most cable companies require them to prevent interference with neighbors signals, and they will actually boost the MoCa signal a little by reflecting it back into the line. Plus they're only a few dollars.

Dan


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## PROxac

Ordered. thanks!


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## spock

supasta said:


> I am using an Apple Airport Extreme based wireless network. The TiVo Stream is connected via ethernet to the Extreme.
> I then have a AirPort Express set as a wireless bridge hardwired to a 5-port Netgear switch. This is all housed in the media center in an adjacent room and connects to all of my devices with ethernet.
> 
> The TiVo Stream works flawlessly. No stuttering and excellent response. Transfer times are comparable to times suggested by TiVo.
> This may be another option, although cost may still be a sticking point ($99). I was also in a position that running wiring was not an option.
> 
> Of note, the same setup did work well with both the TiVo and the Stream connected to the switch and then to the Express, but space was at a premium in the cabinet, so I moved the Stream.


Do you know what generation your Airport Extreme is? I have a 1st generation and wondered if the antenna enhancements were a factor in your setup.


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## TivoInNY

Just thought I'd add my experiences with a new Tivo Stream.

My setup:
- Hardwired Ethernet Tivo Premiere Elite (XL4)
- Hardwired Ethernet S3
- Tivo Premiere XL ethernet to 802.11n bridge (old Asus router in bridge mode thanks to DD-WRT)
- Apple Time Machine (latest generation) as my wireless router (802.11n), which is equivalent to an Airport Extreme.
- Tivo Stream connected to a Trendnet 8-port Gb switch that's connected to the Time Machine.

I figured that I'd either have to run wire to the Premiere XL or get a MoCA adapter (and enable the bridge on the Elite), but so far, it doesn't look like I'm going to need to.

Setup of the Stream went smoothly and I'm able to watch programming on an iPad 4th gen from any of the three Tivos, including the one connected via wireless bridge. No stuttering, high-quality video. I haven't done much benchmarking on transfers, so I'm not sure how much faster downloads run from the hardwired Tivos, but it works for all three, in any case.

So, in summary, it looks like a quality 802.11n router along with a good 802.11n bridge for the Tivo (which I think is what the Tivo-branded "n" adapter actually is) might be a workable Stream solution, as long as a strong signal is available for the bridge. I get why Tivo doesn't technically support it, but wanted to provide another data point showing it can work.


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## bananagrabbers

I have always had my TiVo connected to the web via an Airport Express. I simply tell it to serve ethernet service, rather than extending the network, and the TiVo treats it like a router connection. I am sure this set-up is well-known, as I think I learned about it here!

Obviously, the problem I encountered with the Stream was not being able to hook it up to the Express, which only has one ethernet jack. So I took a shot at simply plugging it into my router (located on the other side of the house, almost as far as it could possibly be from my TiVo) and hoping for the best.

It worked! I am pretty happy, as I wanted to use the Stream, but didn't think it was worth fundamentally altering my network and home entertainment set-up.


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## jrtroo

The stream does not have a radio, so its location is irrelevant.


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## ort

I finally got a Stream and got this set up.

I have my router and stream down in my basement and my TiVo Premiere upstairs connected via the Wireless N Dongle.

It works pretty well most of the time, but there are some rooms where it has trouble getting and maintaining a connection.

I think I either need to move everything upstairs, or setup a wifi repeater.

Either way, it can wait.

I was annoyed though, because for the first hour or so, it wouldn't work at all. Nothing would stream. Then something just happened and everything worked great. I have not idea what changed.


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## compnurd

Probably the software update. Mine took a little bit to get going also


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