# Homeland Season 4



## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

No thread yet? I'll start a season 4 thread...

Enjoyed the first episode more than the second back at home with the baby. Looks like Carrie has had enough motherhood


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I watched. 

Curious to see where they are going.

Not sure I bought the car scene with Cory Stall's character.

I always found Quinn's character to be rock solid so I am not really liking this new portrayal of him with PTS. I did like the entire storyline with the landlord especially his going to breakfast with her.

The med student with the video of his family at the wedding. I'm not sure yet who he is afraid of.

Lastly the baby... Leaving the baby with her sister so she can go to other countries to work and then having this conflict with the sister over it seemed odd.
The bathtub scene was pretty grueling.


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

Boston Globe review: "Homeland Back on Solid Ground". I trust Matthew's reviews, so I look forward to this season and liked last night's episode.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/201...olid-ground/RRqNehYU6khQG4gL9U9thM/story.html


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> The med student with the video of his family at the wedding. I'm not sure yet who he is afraid of.


Probably the CIA, no?

What were the drugs/medications he snuck out of of the apartment and gave to the girl?


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## NatasNJ (Jan 7, 2002)

I think they are clearly setting up the med student as the new double agent "brody". 
He seems logical and wants nothing to do with the terrorist people yet he has a bunch of vials of something and hides it at that chicks place. So is he a good guy or bad guy?
Being related to the target at the wedding I assume he was involved somehow and they will keep us guessing all season with it.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> The med student with the video of his family at the wedding. I'm not sure yet who he is afraid of.


Everybody, I think. He's afraid of getting drawn into the war, presumably at least in part because of...


markymark_ctown said:


> What were the drugs/medications he snuck out of of the apartment and gave to the girl?


It said on the vials, but the label meant nothing to me. I'm guessing it's some kind of drug he's stealing/dealing from the medical school? Hence not wanting any attention...

Carrie's mental illness seems to be drifting. She used to be a pretty straight bipolar, but this year she seems more autistic/sociopathic...


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

It's going to be a lousy season. They have no Brody mystery.
I don't need 13 episodes about That Awful Lockhart and the CIA politics.

Why would Lockhart appoint Carrie to anything, much less station chief?
I kinda doubt that the CIA station chief has the last go/no go over the Air Force on drone strikes.
If they couldn't fly a drone, exactly how did they get live video over the attack site before and after? They just rocket a satellite into place overhead and hope for clear skies?

That LT would have been grounded so fast his ass would burn.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> It's going to be a lousy season. They have no Brody mystery.


 It's going to be a great season. Brody is dead. Episode one was great. This show does terrorism/homeland security/espionage and the human effects of those things really well. Anything involving Carrie and a personal relationship, I don't want to see. Having the baby was a horrible idea (for the show and the character). Though it's funny how much the baby looks like Brody.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Saul and F. Murray Abraham are great. Brody ran his course and there was nowhere else for his story to go. Yeah, the baby is a mini Brody.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> It's going to be a great season. Brody is dead. Episode one was great. This show does terrorism/homeland security/espionage and the human effects of those things really well. Anything involving Carrie and a personal relationship, I don't want to see. Having the baby was a horrible idea (for the show and the character). Though it's funny how much the baby looks like Brody.


My wife and I cracked up over mini Brody too!

While I'm looking forward to the season, especially without milking the Brody line some more, I do think this 2 hours of setup could have been done in an hour. It's almost like they felt they had to use the Brody lookalike because it was too funny. But if Carrie had aborted or miscarried, we could have just skipped all the crazy.

I will miss Morena Baccarin.

I wonder of the med student is helping to develop a bio weapon?


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I was hoping she was going to dump the baby on the Brody doorstep and then make a run for it.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

mooseAndSquirrel said:


> ...But if Carrie had aborted or miscarried, we could have just skipped all the crazy.


 With Carrie, I'm pretty sure there is no such thing as skipping all the crazy.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

My wife and I enjoyed this two-parter, but they definitely needed some revisions on portions of the script. The scene in the diner was completely cliched and right out of a high school melodrama. 

Maybe this was intentional, but my wife and I couldn't stop cringing at the baby in the front seat thing. Her bathing technique (aside from the momentary murder thoughts) was also weird. 

I also think it didn't ring true when her sister got mad at her for not being there in the afternoon. Like... she just got back from afghanistan and works for the CIA and is jetlagged and such. Perhaps confirm with her before you assume things, eh?

But, like I said, I am looking forward to this season and enjoyed it a lot so far despite those parts.

As for the vials... I assume it won't matter since he's going to be stranded on a boat with wild animals soon anyway.


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Oh yeah, that's who he is!


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

really....that's him?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I also think it didn't ring true when her sister got mad at her for not being there in the afternoon. Like... she just got back from afghanistan and works for the CIA and is jetlagged and such. Perhaps confirm with her before you assume things, eh?


She said she was going to be back, and the sister planned her day around it. I can see why she got pissed...


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

And the actor who played the father died between seasons. Wonder if they'll address his absence besides "being at the park"


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

I very much liked the season premier of Homeland, though the first part was better then the second. And yes, the previous seasons used up all of the Brody plot and I'm glad that part is done.

One thing I'd like some clarification on. Ok, so it seems the head of the CIA, Lockhart, was allowing the Islamabad section chief (the bald guy who is later killed by the mob) to trade secrets with some bad guys in return for locations of other bad guys who are hunted down and killed usually with a drone strike. This was done mainly for Lockhart to show how great he is. But the last piece of info while still locating a bad guy to kill was flawed in that it did not disclose that there would be many innocents who would also be killed. This info was presented in a very short time frame such that it could not be verified but was still acted upon and all the innocents die along with the bad guy.

I think I have all of the above correct. But did they imply that Lockhart was aware of the last piece of info and for some reason actually wanted to use it? Was this the case?

Also, if Carrie had all this evidence on Lockhart and actually could accuse him of treason why didn't she pursue that? Instead she used that info to get herself the posting that she wanted and doesn't that make her almost as bad as Lockhart since she was using that info to advance her career instead of for the national benefit?

Gerry


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

markymark_ctown said:


> And the actor who played the father died between seasons. Wonder if they'll address his absence besides "being at the park"


Who are you talking about? "Played the father" of whom?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She said she was going to be back, and the sister planned her day around it. I can see why she got pissed...


But she didn't tell Carrie any of her plans or assumptions. If you expect someone to do something or be somewhere, you should generally tell them that instead of assuming they will do it without knowing. Especially in this case given all of the other factors I mentioned.


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

getreal said:


> Who are you talking about? "Played the father" of whom?


the actor who played Carrie's dad died between seasons.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2014/03/23/james-rebhorn-homeland-actor-dies/6795147/


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> But she didn't tell Carrie any of her plans or assumptions. If you expect someone to do something or be somewhere, you should generally tell them that instead of assuming they will do it without knowing. Especially in this case given all of the other factors I mentioned.


???
From the conversation they had, it was clear that Carrie knew damn well that she had to be back, and that she didn't come anyway, forcing Sis to cancel a couple of patients.

At least that's what Sis accused her of, and she certainly didn't deny it...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ???
> From the conversation they had, it was clear that Carrie knew damn well that she had to be back, and that she didn't come anyway, forcing Sis to cancel a couple of patients.
> 
> At least that's what Sis accused her of, and she certainly didn't deny it...


I think that's how they meant it to come off, but the conversation didn't directly indicate that. The way it was written led both my wife and I to interpret it as I wrote it, with her only saying that Carrie said she'd be back without any indication that Carrie know about or had actually agreed to take care of things in the afternoon.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

markymark_ctown said:


> What were the drugs/medications he snuck out of of the apartment and gave to the girl?


Only one type had completely legible labels.

A-xeron

It seems to be an Eli Lilly drug containing testosterone. But the reference I found with google said it was a 2% topical solution, whereas this was clearly labeled (and packaged) for injection. So I don't know what to make of that.

One other drug had the last part of the label legible: "-non XT".


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Only one type had completely legible labels.
> 
> A-xeron
> 
> It seems to be an Eli Lilly drug containing testosterone. But the reference I found with google said it was a 2% topical solution, whereas this was clearly labeled (and packaged) for injection. So I don't know what to make of that.


So instead of being a bio-terrorist, maybe he makes a few extra bucks by selling the vials to middle-aged guys with low T. Med school is expensive, you know.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Gerryex said:


> Also, if Carrie had all this evidence on Lockhart and actually could accuse him of treason why didn't she pursue that? Instead she used that info to get herself the posting that she wanted and doesn't that make her almost as bad as Lockhart since she was using that info to advance her career instead of for the national benefit?
> 
> Gerry


If the guy in the basement actually had proof that could convict Lockhart of treason, he'd probably be in the ground instead of the basement. Maybe Carrie's blackmail worked because he knows she's crazy and you can't tell what she'd do.

Saul needs to dump his wife. Her turn? She wasn't there for him when it was his turn.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Maybe this was intentional, but my wife and I couldn't stop cringing at the baby in the front seat thing. Her bathing technique (aside from the momentary murder thoughts) was also weird.


I assume that was completely intentional. If nothing else, Claire Danes has children, so I assume she would know infants don't go in the front seat and how to bath a baby.


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## Jesda (Feb 12, 2005)

That is one ugly baby.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Let us not forget that the head of intelligence in Iran is the murderer that Saul sprung and traded Brody to put in place. Did we ever see Carrie coming to grips that Saul betrayed her and Brody?


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## tiassa (Jul 2, 2008)

tivoboyjr said:


> So instead of being a bio-terrorist, maybe he makes a few extra bucks by selling the vials to middle-aged guys with low T. Med school is expensive, you know.


Or he is starting the Pakistani version of BALCO or Biogenesis. Maybe he's selling PED's to cricket players


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I assume the rest of the season will be about finding out who was the Islamabad chief's asset, and exposing him as the guy that told the Americans to bomb a wedding; IOW as the guy really responsible for killing those people.

The idea that video of a wedding might exist escaping the brightest intelligence minds in the United States is kind of far fetched. 

The Pakistani med student reminds me of Beyrooz Araz from 24. 

That bathtub scene was like, whoa, they couldn't really go there, could they? I mean, Carrie's not even supposed to be a villain, and that might have been the worst thing any TV character has ever done had they gone through with it.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

This "the US denies we bombed a wedding" thing really happened. 

Course, we in the US only heard the accusation then off the latest on KimYe.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

aindik said:


> That bathtub scene was like, whoa, they couldn't really go there, could they? I mean, Carrie's not even supposed to be a villain, and that might have been the worst thing any TV character has ever done had they gone through with it.


Since becoming a parent I cannot stand to watch children get hurt in TV or movies. I think if they would have followed through with that scene I would have shut the TV off and never watched Homeland again.


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## erk48188 (Aug 16, 2002)

pendragn said:


> Since becoming a parent I cannot stand to watch children get hurt in TV or movies. I think if they would have followed through with that scene I would have shut the TV off and never watched Homeland again.


i have the same sentiments. i fast forwarded thru all scenes with the baby, because you knew she would hurt the baby at some point. even if it is an ugly baby.


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## izmack (Feb 3, 2002)

aindik said:


> The Pakistani med student reminds me of Beyrooz Araz from 24.


That is an impressive memory. "Bayrooooooze."


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

izmack said:


> That is an impressive memory. "Bayrooooooze."


Yes, the way his mother would say his name is what makes me remember it. That, and the way a radio show I listened to at the time would make fun of her voice.

Behrooooooz. Bring me a carton of Marlboro Reds and a cinnamon stick.

I remember almost nothing else about any single year storyline on that show.

I thought it might be the same actor. It's not.


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

I'm liking this season so far. It's not, and probably can never be, as intense as Season 1, but it's now become a well done espionage, spy drama. I'm assuming there will be some good twists and turns and Carrie's character (as long as she doesn't become a caricature of herself) makes the show even more edgy. There's lots more worse stuff on TV.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> It's going to be a lousy season. They have no Brody mystery.
> 
> I kinda doubt that the CIA station chief has the last go/no go over the Air Force on drone strikes.


After one week, you can predict the season? You're a better prognosticator than Carrie! And Brody should have died at the end of season one, as originally planned.

It was a CIA drone mission, so the CIA CoS has the final word. I have no idea if the Air Force is involved in CIA missions (and if I did, I couldn't tell you), but we can assume the CIA controls their own ops.



aindik said:


> That bathtub scene was like, whoa, they couldn't really go there, could they? I mean, Carrie's not even supposed to be a villain, and that might have been the worst thing any TV character has ever done had they gone through with it.


I knew they weren't gonna go there, and you knew they weren't gonna go there, but still... it *was* spooky watching her even contemplate it. If they were trying to show us how far she would go to get back in the field, it worked.

Nothing may ever match the intensity of the first season, but it's still one of the best written, best acted shows on TV.


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

brebeans said:


> Boston Globe review: "Homeland Back on Solid Ground". I trust Matthew's reviews, so I look forward to this season and liked last night's episode.
> 
> http://www.bostonglobe.com/arts/201...olid-ground/RRqNehYU6khQG4gL9U9thM/story.html


Great to read a positive review! Alan Sepinwall, who I follow and really enjoy, couldn't get over the bathtub scene and won't be reviewing the show this season.  I thought the double episode was a terrific start to what I hope is a great season. Carrie is back on her game. Definitely not mother of the year, but innately realistic to the character. Quinn and his ptsd are fascinating. Loved the storyline with the apartment manager (though I'm really wondering which Homeland creative has a thing about readheads...)

tta


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

aindik said:


> <snip>
> 
> The Pakistani med student reminds me of Beyrooz Araz from 24.


yes!! I said the same thing the moment I saw him.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

astrohip said:


> It was a CIA drone mission, so the CIA CoS has the final word. I have no idea if the Air Force is involved in CIA missions (and if I did, I couldn't tell you), but we can assume the CIA controls their own ops.


They didn't have an available drone that could get there quickly enough for them, so they scrambled a pair of AF fighter jets. It was a manned bombing run, not a drone strike.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Good episode last night. Nice to see Quinn back in the fold. Hope Saul stick around in Pakistan too.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Quinn is in love, Carrie, so don't say "I love you."

I think the plot at this point is predictable, but it's playing out nicely.

Hey, Carrie & Quinn there's at least one contact in Pakistan IS?? that was giving the chief the intel and set up him up for killing to silence him. Look for there to be some reason somebody else at the wedding had to be killed.

Don' cha think that Carrie should have died her hair black again? Blondes are going to be noticed no matter if they wear a scarf.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Yeah, Carrie so totally friendzoned Quinn. No amount of CIA black-ops training can prepare a guy for that.


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

aindik said:


> The Pakistani med student reminds me of Beyrooz Araz from 24.





tivotvaddict said:


> Yes!! I said the same thing the moment I saw him.


Me too. I turned to my wife moments after he appeared on the screen and said, "Hey, Beyrooz is back!". 



aindik said:


> I thought it might be the same actor. It's not.


It's been a long time since I watched that season, but I'm pretty sure Beyrooz was played by Kal Penn.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

My recording just stopped right after Quinn hung up after talking to Carrie where he agreed to come to Pakistan. Was that the end of the episode?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Don' cha think that Carrie should have died her hair black again? Blondes are going to be noticed no matter if they wear a scarf.


It's a standard recommendation that western women should wear a simple headscarf when traveling in the middle east. If they have to interact with anybody on the street, they'll often treat you better, and men will often harass women not wearing a scarf.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

gweempose said:


> It's been a long time since I watched that season, but I'm pretty sure Beyrooz was played by Kal Penn.


Kumar was not Behroooooooz.

It was Jonathan Ahdout. www.imdb.com/name/nm1332975


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

busyba said:


> Kumar was not Behroooooooz.
> 
> It was Jonathan Ahdout. www.imdb.com/name/nm1332975


Oops! As I said, it's been a long time since I watched that season.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Jeeters said:


> It's a standard recommendation that western women should wear a simple headscarf when traveling in the middle east. If they have to interact with anybody on the street, they'll often treat you better, and men will often harass women not wearing a scarf.


Right, but with a head scarf and black hair she'd stick out a whole lot less than with a head scarf and blonde hair. And you'd think she'd be into sticking out less, what with being a CIA Station Chief and all...


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

busyba said:


> They didn't have an available drone that could get there quickly enough for them, so they scrambled a pair of AF fighter jets. It was a manned bombing run, not a drone strike.


You're right, I totally forgot that.

I always wonder why she doesn't go black too. Or why some people (on TV, not real life) make no effort to not stand out. I understand why, TV needs them to be visible as the actor, not as a hat and beard, but it always looks funny when a hunted character walks around with no hat, no disguise at all. Couldn't the (now dead) former CoS have worn _something _to disguise his easily recognized shiny head.


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## erk48188 (Aug 16, 2002)

i enjoyed the scene in the car with the security team when carrie got back. carrie: "how could you guys let dippity-do go run around without security? now drop me off here at the hotel while i skip thru and pick up a cab on the other side".

/rolleyes


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

erk48188 said:


> i enjoyed the scene in the car with the security team when carrie got back. carrie: "how could you guys let dippity-do go run around without security? now drop me off here at the hotel while i skip thru and pick up a cab on the other side".
> /rolleyes


I was also confused when she walked up to the car with the security guys sitting in it.

Carrie: "I need you to take me to so-and-so hotel, yada yada".

Driver: "But there's a lockdown; we can't leave."

If there was a lockdown and they couldn't leave, why were they all sitting in the car?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Speaking of that scene... is that barrel they're supposed to point their weapon into when loading/unloading it really a thing?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> It's a standard recommendation that western women should wear a simple headscarf when traveling in the middle east. If they have to interact with anybody on the street, they'll often treat you better, and men will often harass women not wearing a scarf.


I noted that women like Carrie know that they're safe going bareheaded in more western venues.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> I was also confused when she walked up to the car with the security guys sitting in it.
> 
> Carrie: "I need you to take me to so-and-so hotel, yada yada".
> 
> ...


That first scene was when they picked up Carrie at the airport, but later she said something like "we have a loophole," and the ambassador asked why she violated her lockdown order.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

busyba said:


> Speaking of that scene... is that barrel they're supposed to point their weapon into when loading/unloading it really a thing?


Indeed it is, many cop shops use them. We've seen it used on TV in "Rookie Blue" in season one. The only time it's useful dramatically is to show a screw-up nubie making yet another mistake by firing a live round into it unintentionally and getting severely chastised. Unless it's to show (as here) that the protagonist is taking appropriate professional care with their tools.


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Right, but with a head scarf and black hair she'd stick out a whole lot less than with a head scarf and blonde hair. And you'd think she'd be into sticking out less, what with being a CIA Station Chief and all...


Or even if she just pulled her hair back into a ponytail before wrapping the scarf around her head .... 

tta


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

busyba said:


> Speaking of that scene... is that barrel they're supposed to point their weapon into when loading/unloading it really a thing?


Can someone explain to me what that does, exactly? It just didn't make sense to me, but I don't use guns.

tta


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## dmaneyapanda (Jan 16, 2000)

Catches ejected bullets and stops accidental discharges.

http://www.pacsafety.com/Unloading.html


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## izmack (Feb 3, 2002)

gweempose said:


> Oops! As I said, it's been a long time since I watched that season.


You did make me look, though!


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

tivotvaddict said:


> Can someone explain to me what that does, exactly? It just didn't make sense to me, but I don't use guns.
> 
> tta


When you load or unload a semiauto pistol you have to work the action; in some situations you will pull the trigger to drop the hammer on an empty chamber. Things can go wrong; your thumb might slip off the hammer while you're de-cocking, your finger may be misplaced onto the trigger and accidentally discharge the weapon, you may think you have unloaded it but made a mistake, or a mechanical failure may cause the weapon to discharge. If the weapon is not pointed in a safe direction when that happens it will be a disaster for you and whatever is in front of your pistol.

In a office building there may be no safe direction; bullets may ricochet from brick walls or girders and are quite likely to penetrate interior walls and threaten whatever is behind them. So these unloading stations provide a safe place to contain the bad effects of any misadventure in the loading or unloading process.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Right, but with a head scarf and black hair she'd stick out a whole lot less than with a head scarf and blonde hair. And you'd think she'd be into sticking out less, what with being a CIA Station Chief and all...


All Annie Walker has to do to hide from the bad guys is turn her head and look away from them. She must have taken more camouflage credits in spy college.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Dawghows said:


> All Annie Walker has to do to hide from the bad guys is turn her head and look away from them. She must have taken more camouflage credits in spy college.


Of course, then she'd have to know where the bad guys are, in a city where she's been told that people leaving the US Embassy are routinely followed...

So much simpler to simply blend in more to begin with! But I guess she's too crazy for that...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Don't know if anyone else noticed, but the guy banished to the basement is the same guy who played Elliot Schwartz (from Greymatter) in Breaking Bad. 

There are some holes in this season, but it's a huge step up from S2 and S3. 

My g/f said "And at least there's no more Dana!". :up:


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She said she was going to be back, and the sister planned her day around it. I can see why she got pissed...


So can I.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Elliot...I knew he looked familiar. Thanks...

Edit...you mean Gail?


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

aindik said:


> I assume the rest of the season will be about finding out who was the Islamabad chief's asset, and exposing him as the guy that told the Americans to bomb a wedding; IOW as the guy really responsible for killing those people.
> 
> *The idea that video of a wedding might exist escaping the brightest intelligence minds in the United States is kind of far fetched. *
> 
> ...


The video was not available to anyone besides the owner of the phone on which it was shot before he showed it to his roommate. Until then, no one else living knew of its existence.


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## tivotvaddict (Aug 11, 2005)

Thanks for the explanations dmaneyapanda and ej42137! Always thought i might take a gun safety class at some point in my life but haven't made it a priority ...

tta


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

busyba said:


> Yeah, Carrie so totally friendzoned Quinn. No amount of CIA black-ops training can prepare a guy for that.


LOL! :up:


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

markymark_ctown said:


> Elliot...I knew he looked familiar. Thanks...
> 
> Edit...you mean Gail?


No, Elliott the billionaire.. Not Gale Beotticher the meth cook. They look totally different!


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Hank said:


> No, Elliott the billionaire.. Not Gale Beotticher the meth cook. They look totally different!


Got it. I thought the guy looked like Gale


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

markymark_ctown said:


> Got it. I thought the guy looked like Gale


hmm...


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Hank said:


> hmm...


The guy on the right will always be the British guy from Suits to me. Though the guy on the left was on Suits too, I saw him first as Gail on Breaking Bad, so that's how I think of him.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

How can you confuse the actor that has Dumbo ears like a taxi with the back doors open?


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Thread drift warning: I just read that Gale Boetticher character was created especially for Phillip Seymour Hoffman..


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Maybe he was confusing the actor who played Gale with Miles O'Keefe?


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

I seriously do not remember Quinn and Carrie having a sexual relationship at any time, so this whole You have feelings for her questioning is confusing.

Did they?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> I seriously do not remember Quinn and Carrie having a sexual relationship at any time, so this whole You have feelings for her questioning is confusing.
> 
> Did they?


Nope. Carrie was smitten with Brody, ...and remember that Quinn was supposed to be ready to kill Brody twice - spying on them at the cabin and as Brody's limo driver.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

frombhto323 said:


> The video was not available to anyone besides the owner of the phone on which it was shot before he showed it to his roommate. Until then, no one else living knew of its existence.


But it's a wedding. "Maybe there's a video" is something someone in the intelligence community might think of, no? Every wedding has a video.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

They should have set up a perimeter and confiscated all the phones from anyone in the area.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> I seriously do not remember Quinn and Carrie having a sexual relationship at any time, so this whole You have feelings for her questioning is confusing.
> 
> Did they?


I don't think they did either, but towards the end of last season, I think it was clear that he was stalking/pining for Carrie.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

stellie93 said:


> They should have set up a perimeter and confiscated all the phones from anyone in the area.


I know you're joking, but let me pretend to take your suggestion seriously.

Supposing the CIA had ground assets sufficient to accomplish this, they could have done that _instead_ of bombing the hell out of the wedding! Possibly resulting in live capture and interrogation of the subject, which would be much more profitable than killing him and with less collateral damage.

But a more important consideration is that the wedding location was Pakistan. Dropping troops into a sovereign country to manhandle citizens of said country is universally regarded as an act of war; and Pakistan is a titular ally.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

ej42137 said:


> But a more important consideration is that the wedding location was Pakistan. Dropping troops into a sovereign country to manhandle citizens of said country is universally regarded as an act of war; and Pakistan is a titular ally.


But dropping bombs on a wedding and killing all but one person, isn't?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

ej42137 said:


> and Pakistan is a titular ally.


heh heh heh... titular....


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Kristen Schaal is going to be joining the cast?

They need comic relief?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Was this ever posted in a Homeland thread before?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

OMG


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

busyba said:


> OMG


Is that a yes or a no?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

aindik said:


> Is that a yes or a no?


That was my face while watching it. 

I never saw it before, but I missed a lot of threads, so I couldn't tell you.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

busyba said:


> That was my face while watching it.
> 
> I never saw it before, but I missed a lot of threads, so I couldn't tell you.


Me too, that's why I asked.

I couldn't tell if the  was a reaction to the video or to my having posted it.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

Hank said:


> But dropping bombs on a wedding and killing all but one person, isn't?


Not if you don't get caught. And a bomb is far easier to brush under the carpet than boots. Remember when we were bombing Laos and Cambodia during the Vietnam war? Like that.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

So, Corey Stoll's character (Sandy I think) was the station chief in Islamabad? Wow, I totally missed that. I thought he was just an agent.

I've never understood all these men falling all over themselves for crazy Carrie, especially with the widow Jess around.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Enjoyed the episode, but horrified to see Carrie seduce the "asset". 

Good work to find out that the terrorist thought killed in the bombing is really alive and well.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

I'm not sure on the terminology, but I think in this episode he's gone from being an asset to being a target. At least in Carrie's mind.

Not being familiar with CIA procedures, I'm thinking Carrie crossed a line doing that, but I'm not sure. In any event it's the same line she crossed with Brody.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Yeah, but she really cared about Brody. And Brody wasn't innocent. As far as we know, or she knows, this kid has done nothing but be related to a terrorist. If your uncle was wanted by a foreign government, would you tell them he's alive? I thought Carrie was a better person than this.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> Yeah, but she really cared about Brody. And Brody wasn't innocent. As far as we know, or she knows, this kid has done nothing but be related to a terrorist. If your uncle was wanted by a foreign government, would you tell them he's alive? I thought Carrie was a better person than this.


She ended up really caring about Brody. I think in the beginning it was a play, just like this is.

Also, the kid isn't just related to the terrorist. Didn't he deliver the drugs there?

OTOH, he doesn't know Carrie is a "foreign government." She's an editor of a magazine.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

That whole seduction scene was a disaster to watch. I know she has to develop the asset, but really?


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Crossing the line? That's absurd. Since when is using sex not acceptable for CIA agents?

And it seems like a smart move on Carrie's part. The student is very skittish and unlikely to go ahead with what she needs from him without some major persuasion. She could try threatening him or blackmailing him, but I think seducing him is both better for her (more likely to get him to do what she needs), and better for him. What young man would rather be threatened and blackmailed than to have sex with Carrie?

I cannot understand any argument that she is mistreating him. He is associating with a known terrorist and lying about it. I think persuasion by seduction is letting him off easy considering what he is involved in and how he has not been at all forthcoming from his side of the bargain.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

What do you all think about the drugs?

I can't tell if he is selling drugs to make money for himself and he needed to get them back because he owed a drug dealer for them 

- or -

He is doing it for his terrorist uncle for some reason or another.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Isn't that one of the ways they tracked down bin Laden? Through his meds?


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Isn't that one of the ways they tracked down bin Laden? Through his meds?


Yes, that's probably it. The uncle has some sort of illness that the nephew is treating. That's how they maintain the moral wishy-washiness of what he's doing. Is that "supporting a known terrorist" or not? We're not supposed to be sure.


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## frombhto323 (Jan 24, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Crossing the line? That's absurd. Since when is using sex not acceptable for CIA agents?
> 
> And it seems like a smart move on Carrie's part. The student is very skittish and unlikely to go ahead with what she needs from him without some major persuasion. She could try threatening him or blackmailing him, but I think seducing him is both better for her (more likely to get him to do what she needs), and better for him. What young man would rather be threatened and blackmailed than to have sex with Carrie?
> 
> I cannot understand any argument that she is mistreating him.* He is associating with a known terrorist and lying about it.* I think persuasion by seduction is letting him off easy considering what he is involved in and how he has not been at all forthcoming from his side of the bargain.


Aside from Carrie's handling of the student, which I find a bit creepy but not necessarily out of bounds, look at this from the student's perspective: He doesn't know he is lying to government officials, he thinks he's lying to journalists. Even if he knew they were CIA, he would be lying to foreign government officials that for all he knows have no business questioning him. Aside from lying (by omission) about his uncle being alive and giving him a bag full of drugs, we don't know what the association consists of. From the CIA's perspective, they would be prudent to not treat him as a suspect just yet.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I won't argue that it doesn't make sense, but I will argue that I didn't and don't want the show to be going this route. The more this season goes on, the less I am liking it. Just the same tropes from past seasons repackaged and shuffled around.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

TAsunder said:


> I won't argue that it doesn't make sense, but I will argue that I didn't and don't want the show to be going this route. The more this season goes on, the less I am liking it. Just the same tropes from past seasons repackaged and shuffled around.


+1000

The first two eps were great.. now, it feels like we've been here already.

So it's OK for a CIA Station Chief to use the safe house to seduce a suspect/asset? Again? If that gets out, wouldn't she be bounced out of the CIA? Again?


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

I don't understand the hate for her seduction of the person of Interest. Calms him down, probably makes him happy, and harms no one. Just a little wear and tear on government sheets.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

efilippi said:


> I don't understand the hate for her seduction of the person of Interest. Calms him down, probably makes him happy, and harms no one. Just a little wear and tear on government sheets.


Maybe in this country, but in a country where women have to wear head coverings I think it's really twisting him around to be consorting with Carrie like that. I think it's cruel and unusual social manipulation beyond the sexual part. Besides, doesn't he have a girlfriend?


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

efilippi said:


> I don't understand the hate for her seduction of the person of Interest. Calms him down, probably makes him happy, and harms no one. Just a little wear and tear on government sheets.


If that were the only way it is rehashing plots, then it might not be too bad. But the entire direction of this season seems to just be same thing, same character behaviors, different country. We've got some of the creative forces behind 24 here and it's starting to show.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> What do you all think about the drugs?
> 
> I can't tell if he is selling drugs to make money for himself and he needed to get them back because he owed a drug dealer for them
> 
> ...


Prediction: #2 is correct. It's gonna turn out the kid he got antibiotics and such for suffering civilians for humanitarian reasons.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

efilippi said:


> I don't understand the hate for her seduction of the person of Interest. Calms him down, probably makes him happy, and harms no one. Just a little wear and tear on government sheets.


Consider that a major factor in how the youth become martyrs is allegedly because they aren't allowed any sexual gratification.


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## tivoboyjr (Apr 28, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> If that were the only way it is rehashing plots, then it might not be too bad. But the entire direction of this season seems to just be same thing, same character behaviors, different country. We've got some of the creative forces behind 24 here and it's starting to show.


This. Please do not let this become another torrid love affair that dominates the show. Make it a one-time thing. Please.



MikeAndrews said:


> Prediction: #2 is correct. It's gonna turn out the kid he got antibiotics and such for suffering civilians for humanitarian reasons.


I think it's something like that or maybe some sort of medicine needed by uncle Osama (whatever his name is) or another family member. Seems clear (at this point) that the kid's not a drug dealer.


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## mooseAndSquirrel (Aug 31, 2001)

tivoboyjr said:


> This. Please do not let this become another torrid love affair that dominates the show. Make it a one-time thing. Please.


I can't imagine anything featuring Ayan as torrid!


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

I wonder how true to life it is for spy agencies to develop assets through sexual manipulation. On "The Americans" it seems like just about every asset is developed that way.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Hank said:


> ... Besides, doesn't he have a girlfriend?


But not a lover! Plus, his girlfriend's dad hates him and kicked him out.



MikeAndrews said:


> Consider that a major factor in how the youth become martyrs is allegedly because they aren't allowed any sexual gratification.


Wouldn't that be as tempting as luring a non-smoker by promising him 72 packs of cigarettes in paradise, or a non-beer-drinker with 72 cases of beer in paradise?

_PS ... Episode threads for Homeland, PLEASE!!_


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## brebeans (Sep 5, 2003)

efilippi said:


> I don't understand the hate for her seduction of the person of Interest. Calms him down, probably makes him happy, and harms no one. Just a little wear and tear on government sheets.


Agree...if this were a guy trying to seduce a college student to get information, there would be all sort of "titillation" along with it and not very many people thinking it was "creepy" (probably the opposite!) at all.

And, if Carrie (and/or the CIA) did NOT do what was necessary to get relevant information, how many people would be screaming about us being inept and irresponsible and 'letting 'them' get away'!! I know I'm mixing up fiction and reality, a bit, here, but come on.....if it Bin Laden had gotten away because a CIA agent didn't at least try to get information (in whatever way) people would crucify the CIA. We can't get creeped out and all moralistic about how we treat suspects or possible assets and then get angry and outraged when/if we don't accomplish our 'mission'.

Carrie is doing what she has to do.....of course, being Carrie as only she can! It's fiction and drama and we have to take it all with a grain of salt, while keeping it totally entertaining, of course!!


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

getreal said:


> Wouldn't that be as tempting as luring a non-smoker by promising him 72 packs of cigarettes in paradise, or a non-beer-drinker with 72 cases of beer in paradise?


Only if a straight young male's hormones made him crave cigarettes or beer as much as females.*

* Which I guess may be the case in some parts of America.


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## aindik (Jan 23, 2002)

brebeans said:


> Agree...if this were a guy trying to seduce a college student to get information, there would be all sort of "titillation" along with it and not very many people thinking it was "creepy" (probably the opposite!) at all.
> 
> And, if Carrie (and/or the CIA) did NOT do what was necessary to get relevant information, how many people would be screaming about us being inept and irresponsible and 'letting 'them' get away'!! I know I'm mixing up fiction and reality, a bit, here, but come on.....if it Bin Laden had gotten away because a CIA agent didn't at least try to get information (in whatever way) people would crucify the CIA. We can't get creeped out and all moralistic about how we treat suspects or possible assets and then get angry and outraged when/if we don't accomplish our 'mission'.
> 
> Carrie is doing what she has to do.....of course, being Carrie as only she can! It's fiction and drama and we have to take it all with a grain of salt, while keeping it totally entertaining, of course!!


I think it's the opposite. Reasonably hot older lady trying to seduce young man? Awesome, what a lucky dude.

Older dude seducing younger woman? Creepy old man.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

brebeans said:


> Agree...if this were a guy trying to seduce a college student to get information, there would be all sort of "titillation" along with it and not very many people thinking it was "creepy" (probably the opposite!) at all.


 It would be the same or worse to me, not titillating and acceptable. But I may be in the minority, since I find it off-putting when guys spend pages of a thread commenting on a nude scene here.


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## efilippi (Jul 24, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> It would be the same or worse to me, not titillating and acceptable. But I may be in the minority, since I find it off-putting when guys spend pages of a thread commenting on a nude scene here.


I think I missed that thread, link please?


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

efilippi said:


> I think I missed that thread, link please?


I also didn't know what TAsunder was referring to.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

getreal said:


> I also didn't know what TAsunder was referring to.


TAsunder vividly remember every nude scene in every show she has ever watched. And every post regarding them. But she will not speak of any of them.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

efilippi said:


> I think I missed that thread, link please?


It's happened in several show discussions here, but it was particularly irritating in True Detective [whole season] discussion thread [around episodes 1-3].


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