# Mini loses connection repeatedly



## notting

Recently, our Mini started repeatedly losing connection to our Roamio. Usually when watching live TV, (but sometimes during streaming a recording), it will fail with 'Lost Connection - V87'. This sometimes corresponds to a 'C133 - Temporary Service Connection failure' error on the main menu. When this happens, simply hitting 'OK' and going back to Live TV works. 

This happens as often as every 30 seconds or so, which makes it pretty unusable. But streaming Netflix, etc. works fine.

Both Mini and Roamio are on wired ethernet. There are some switches in between, but they're all dumb unmanaged switches. I've plugged other things into the same port & cable, and the link isn't bouncing.
(MoCA is not currently an option without rewiring some parts of the house, so haven't tried that.)


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## JBDragon

Have you locked the IP address for each device using the MAC address with your Router? For example My Tivo Roamio is always 10.0.0.200, and my 2 Mini's are 10.0.0.205 and 10.0.0.210 and my Tivo Stream is 10.0.0.215. They never change!!! You might be on 192.168.0.* or 192.168.1.*, but same thing. Most of my hardware plugged in I have locked to a IP address that it will always use and never change. You get a more reliable network this way. If you do any port forwarding and you hardware changes IP address, the port may be forwarded to the wrong device. UPnP is flaky.

My Tivo Roamio OTA is in my Family room. It's plugged into the wall which ends up at my 24 port Managed Switch. I needed Managed so that I could bond 2 ports together for my ReadyNAS 516 which as 2 Ethernet ports on it. I have a Tivo Mini in one bedroom, plugged into a wall that also goes to that 24 port switch, and in my bedroom, I have to many devices, and so the 4 ports in my room were not enough, so I have the Tivo Mini plugged into a 5 port unmanaged switch that is then plugged into the wall which is connected to the 24 port switch. I'm problem free. It stream great. I never have any issues. I very rarely have to touch anything on my network or Reboot anything. It just works reliably. When I got my house I ran Cat6 all over. I did it all myself.

So if you haven't done this, that's what I would try first. a MAC address will look something like 43:34:54:E2:34:34. No 2 devices are the same. Even Wifi has a MAC address and that will be different from the WIRED connection!!! If you want you could have your Smartphone use the same IP address every time it connects to your Network. I normally don't worry about things like that.

You can find the MAC address in the Network settings on your TIVO. My ASUS router will show the MAC address of everything connected. If you have a lot of devices like I do, that may not help. On my iphone I can go in general, About and it show's Wi-fi Address and then a 6 digit number similar to above.

Sometimes it's shown next to the Ethernet port. It all depends on the device.

So for me and my ASUS Router, I would go to Advance Settings/LAN, then click on DHCP Server. This is where the router would normally auto assign IP numbers, so for me it starts at 10.0.0.2, because the Router is at 10.0.0.1, The ending IP address pool is 10.0.0.256. So the router will start at 10.0.0.2, and then 10.0.0.3, and 10.0.0.4 and so on and so on. Now say you turn on your PC, it gets 10.0.0.2, then you Xbox, so it gets 10.0.0.3, then your iPad connects and gets 10.0.0.4. When you're done, you power down. The next day, you start using the Xbox first, so it connects to the network and now it gets 10.0.0.2 and then your PC turns on and it's 10.0.0.3. So it's switched around from what it was the day before. If you port forward something for your PC, something some programs require to work correctly, it's now trying to forward traffic on that port to the wrong device.

Anyway, Down below on my ASUS Router, you can Manually assign IP addresses. So the first spot is MAC address, I can manually enter it, or scroll though the drop down menu listing of all that are connected. Enter the MAC either way. Then the next spot you want to pick a IP address. So it needs to be something in your own range. So for me it's anything in between 10.0.0.2 and 10.0.0.256. So basically I have 255 options. On the 3rd row, you click ADD, it will then add it to the list and on the bottom of it all, there's Apply. You want to make sure you hit Apply or anything you did won't be saved. Then the Router will reboot. It really is pretty simple. You can do this with ANY router. It'll vary depending on the Router you have.

Give it a try! In general you should have a more reliable Network! Your TIVO and Mini's will always know where it needs to go as it never changes. It won't hurt anything. That's my suggestion.

The other thing you can do is plug something into that Ethernet port your Tivo is using that you can run a speedtest on. I generally go to Speedtest.net by Ookla - The Global Broadband Speed Test. So you should be seeing similar speeds at all the ports on your Network. If it's bogged down really slow on that port your Tivo or Tivo mini is using, there's something wrong with your Network. Then you'll have to figure out what's going on. I've had switches go bad, they would kind of work but not very good. Install a new one and all would be good once again. With your issues, it may be something like this. You could try running a long Ethernet cable from the Tivo mini and plug directly into your router, same with the Tivo and see if that clear things up. That's one way to get around a switch you may be using someplace failing. So these are all things you can easily try and do yourself. Narrow down the list of things it might be. As a last resort, you can then call TIVO and when they start asking if you did this and that,you can tell them you already tried that.


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## fcfc2

notting said:


> Recently, our Mini started repeatedly losing connection to our Roamio. Usually when watching live TV, (but sometimes during streaming a recording), it will fail with 'Lost Connection - V87'. This sometimes corresponds to a 'C133 - Temporary Service Connection failure' error on the main menu. When this happens, simply hitting 'OK' and going back to Live TV works.
> 
> This happens as often as every 30 seconds or so, which makes it pretty unusable. But streaming Netflix, etc. works fine.
> 
> Both Mini and Roamio are on wired ethernet. There are some switches in between, but they're all dumb unmanaged switches. I've plugged other things into the same port & cable, and the link isn't bouncing.
> (MoCA is not currently an option without rewiring some parts of the house, so haven't tried that.)


Hi,
If the problem was a failure to connect especially after not being used for some time, the router / IP address might be the issue. However, the problem description is really an intermittent drop/re-establish only the Tivo mini and only when viewing live TV or a recording. Although using fixed/static/reserved IP's for the Tivos on the router is often a good recommendation.
The question I have is are you using only one mini? If you had a second mini, I would simply try switching the location to see if the problem follows the mini or remains at the location. 
If that step is not an option, and you have a few spare Ethernet cables, I would try swapping them at both the mini and Roamio location and if using a switch try using different ports for the Tivo devices. 
Have you noticed any issues watching recordings on the Roamio?


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## notting

So, after debugging:
1. switching to MoCA did *not* fix it
2. changing out cables, ports, etc on the Mini side did *not* fix it
3. switching out a switch on the Roamio side did fix it, even though the Roamio has never shown any network isses (with Netfix, etc).

I'm a little baffled (especially why the Mini couldn't connect reliably over MoCA if the Roamio's ethernet was the issue), but it's been working for about 12 hours now.


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## Chris Blount

Me too! Having the exact same problem. I will be watching something on my mini and the connection would suddenly drop for no reason. Backing out and restarting the recording brings it back. As the OP said, this suddenly started happening. For me it was a few weeks ago. I haven't made any changes to anything in my house, Tivo or router configuration.


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## Jrr6415sun

unfortunately I am having the same problems. I've been using mini's for a few years without any problems, the last week or so it keeps going out and giving me that connection error.

I wonder if this is a problem on Tivo's end as that error does sometimes come up when it the mini can't connect to the tivo authorization service.


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## Twentworth12

This happens to me on one of my minis. Hitting Live TV fixes the problem immediately, but it's super annoying. It happens a few times an hour, sometimes more. 

It's not the internet connection, which is 150mb Ethernet, and reliable for every other device. When I ping the Mini, I often see it drop packets which doesn't happen with any other devices connected to the same switch.


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## PaulFromMD

Having similar v87 issue's with both Minis on my network. After spending a lot of time troubleshooting I think it may be the tplink switch I am using. Tomorrow, I am going to bypass the switch to see if that fixes the problem. I will follow up with the results.
Update:
I bypassed the tplink switch but continue to get intermittent v87 lost connection errors on both minis. At this point, I am not sure what the cause is.
Update 2:
I finally found and solved the problem. When the fios ONT was changed from coax to Ethernet, the coax cable was left connected. This was causing interference on the MOCA network. Disconnected it and everything works fine.


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## cpgar11

Sorry I'm late to the conversation, but thought I would respond in case this may help someone else. I use minis on ethernet and it ended up being a bad patch cable between my router and the switch that hosts all the minis on my network. My point is that it may not be the obvious network cable, but one within the network!

Here is a link to a previous post:
Mini on ethernet and develop a stuttering problem? Try this


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## midnightmarauder

I'm wondering if this is my issue. Made a patch cable (I think that's the right term, the cable with keystone jacks at the ends). I do not have a punch down tool so I used the cheap punch down that came with the keystone jack. I couldn't get a connection. None of the wires were punctured when I pulled it apart. I used a different keystone jack and punchdown tool . I got a connection but it does lose connection here and there.
Unplugging the power to the router gets it working again .. or unplugging the power to TiVo mini gets it working again also.

What does that sound like to you guys?

The cable I u sed for the patch cable is UTP Cat6 23 AWG . It was $12 for 150 ft. 
Maybe it's a cheap cable


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## midnightmarauder

I think I'll run a long cat6 cable to the TiVo mini directly and test that for a bit.


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## krkaufman

midnightmarauder said:


> I think I'll run a long cat6 cable to the TiVo mini directly and test that for a bit.


Good call, if it's an option -- assuming you've tested the cable to ensure it's working properly.


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## midnightmarauder

krkaufman said:


> Good call, if it's an option -- assuming you've tested the cable to ensure it's working properly.


yea it works. 
I'm hoping it's my fault in the cable I made. I bought a punch down tool anyway incase it is so I can do it properly.


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## krkaufman

midnightmarauder said:


> yea it works.
> I'm hoping it's my fault in the cable I made. I bought a punch down tool anyway incase it is so I can do it properly.


Good luck...!


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## midnightmarauder

Well.. so far it is working with no hiccups. 
So how can a patch cable sometimes work and sometimes not? Of course it could also be the Ethernet cable coming from wall outlet to mini as well. 
Ahhh joys of troubleshooting


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## midnightmarauder

So the issue is still happening. So at this point it's either the router or the mini?
Any ideas?


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## RJR44

I'm seeing the same thing. It's been working fine for over a year and all of the sudden a couple of weeks ago this started happening. Wondering if there was a recent software update that could be causing this?


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## frankmcpartland

Hello: My Tivo Minis worked perfectly for the last 2 years. However, during the last two weeks, they will go "offline" every hour or so...This feels like a "Tivo issue" to me...


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## timbracken

I've been having connection issues since I bought my mini in September, but for the last 2 weeks it's been rock solid FWIW. I haven't changed a thing. I assumed it was server issues at TiVo causing the problem which they've resolved...who knows. I hope the rock solidness continues.


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## frankmcpartland

I believe I figured it out: I removed a new device from the network switch that the Tivo Mini was connected to and the Tivo Mini disconnect problem has stopped for now (perhaps it was packet collision?)


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## fcfc2

frankmcpartland said:


> I believe I figured it out: I removed a new device from the network switch that the Tivo Mini was connected to and the Tivo Mini disconnect problem has stopped for now (perhaps it was packet collision?)


If you aren't already doing it, set a fixed/static/reserved IP on the ROUTER for all of your Tivos. Might also want to do this with the problem device.


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## frankmcpartland

Thanks, would I need to do it for all the Tivo devices?


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## lillevig

Ok, just bought a new Mini instead of a used Premiere for the basement exercise area. BIG MISTAKE. It's bad enough that the Mini goes to the "Lost connection" screen about once an hour but it is unconscionable that it can't recover on it's own. Instead, I have to manually go back to TiVo Central, then manually select live TV, or manually resume the recording that was playing. My wife is really irritated that her exercise videos that ran flawlessly on an old S2 box now get interrupted when streaming from another TiVo over Ethernet. I suppose I could waste another $90 on the off chance that a MoCa setup might fix the problem but why should I when this is clearly a TiVo issue?


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## DatCFC

frankmcpartland said:


> I believe I figured it out: I removed a new device from the network switch that the Tivo Mini was connected to and the Tivo Mini disconnect problem has stopped for now (perhaps it was packet collision?)


This has also seemingly helped me as well.
I'll setup DHCP reservation next as recommended by some.

CFC


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## tvmaster2

DatCFC said:


> This has also seemingly helped me as well.
> I'll setup DHCP reservation next as recommended by some.
> 
> CFC


I have tried everything possible to alleviate this ongoing problem of having to unplug the Mini twice a day to make it work.
I finally troubleshot by moving it to a different room, and now, the ONLY thing that makes sense is the TV it's plugged into (changed the HDMI cable as well), a Vizio smart t.v.
Any chance it's a handshaking error that's doing this when the Vizio gets turned on, freezing the Tivo Mini?
I ran the identical cables and switch to both a Sony Bravia and a second, older Vizio, and didn't get the problem once.
How could a particular TV cause this?


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## JoeKustra

tvmaster2 said:


> I have tried everything possible to alleviate this ongoing problem of having to unplug the Mini twice a day to make it work.
> I finally troubleshot by moving it to a different room, and now, the ONLY thing that makes sense is the TV it's plugged into (changed the HDMI cable as well), a Vizio smart t.v.
> Any chance it's a handshaking error that's doing this when the Vizio gets turned on, freezing the Tivo Mini?
> I ran the identical cables and switch to both a Sony Bravia and a second, older Vizio, and didn't get the problem once.
> How could a particular TV cause this?


My modem was disconnecting (rebooting) twice a day. I had the tech out and he used a signal detector to look for noise since my signal was fine. Turns out it was noise generated by my TV. Guess what TV? Yes, Vizio. TV now at sister's house (she has dish). No more disconnects. I could have moved the modem, but I didn't like the TV anyhow.


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## tvmaster2

JoeKustra said:


> My modem was disconnecting (rebooting) twice a day. I had the tech out and he used a signal detector to look for noise since my signal was fine. Turns out it was noise generated by my TV. Guess what TV? Yes, Vizio. TV now at sister's house (she has dish). No more disconnects. I could have moved the modem, but I didn't like the TV anyhow.


Well isn't that interesting. OK, I'll make the final test: moving the Bravia to replace the Vizio and hold my breath... thanks


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## jwcollins

Hi all. Just thought I'd post to the group since I was able to debug my problem with V87 errors between a new-ish Tivo mini and our Roamio.

Both devices are on Cat5e ethernet connections, running back to a gigabit Ethernet switch in our wiring closet. I have both setup with DHCP reservation addresses on our local network, so that their local IP addresses never change. But the mini had been useless. When watching live TV, it would throw a V87 about every 3 minutes.

I wondered if the ethernet switch was trying to negotiate for gigabit connections despite having only Cat5e cabling. So I substituted patch cables that only run 2 pairs (and thus cannot possibly support gigabit ethernet). That didn't help.

Then on a lark, I moved both devices to the built-in 4-port switch on my TP-Link router. And that worked! So my conclusion is that my Linksys LGS116P gigabit ethernet switch is at fault. I don't know if it's a bad unit, or if it's buggy firmware, or just plain doesn't play nice with Tivo streaming. But if you're having this V87 problem with your Tivo mini on ethernet, try plugging your Tivos into a different ethernet switch and see if that fixes it.

Regards,
Jeff


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## Mike Merusi

This is super annoying. My 2 TiVo minis have been losing connection multiple times a day for the past few weeks and they are less than a year old. Bolt works fine. It's saying I lost internet connection which makes no sense since every other device in my house works just fine. Of course their customer service is never open when I'm home at night and actually have time to call. I'm debating whether or not to even renew my service. Not very happy with them right now....


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## krkaufman

Mike Merusi said:


> This is super annoying. My 2 TiVo minis have been losing connection multiple times a day for the past few weeks and they are less than a year old. Bolt works fine. It's saying I lost internet connection which makes no sense since every other device in my house works just fine. Of course their customer service is never open when I'm home at night and actually have time to call. I'm debating whether or not to even renew my service. Not very happy with them right now....


Are the Minis connected via MoCA or Ethernet? Any details on your setup would be useful if you're looking for any troubleshooting help.


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## tvmaster2

Mike Merusi said:


> This is super annoying. My 2 TiVo minis have been losing connection multiple times a day for the past few weeks and they are less than a year old. Bolt works fine. It's saying I lost internet connection which makes no sense since every other device in my house works just fine. Of course their customer service is never open when I'm home at night and actually have time to call. I'm debating whether or not to even renew my service. Not very happy with them right now....


how do you get control of them? Do you have to physically unplug/replug them in?


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## tvmaster2

JoeKustra said:


> My modem was disconnecting (rebooting) twice a day. I had the tech out and he used a signal detector to look for noise since my signal was fine. Turns out it was noise generated by my TV. Guess what TV? Yes, Vizio. TV now at sister's house (she has dish). No more disconnects. I could have moved the modem, but I didn't like the TV anyhow.


Well, believe it or not, the Vizio TV seems to be the problem. After troubleshooting everything possible, every scenario works EXCEPT plugging into the Vizio's HDMI inputs. It doesn't seem to matter if CEC or ARC features are disabled, but the combination of TiVo Mini and this one, Vizio locks up the TiVo every time.
Who would have thought.
And, this just reminded me that one of my satellite receivers died connected via HDMI to this TV, the first of seven satellite receivers that's gone bad in 15 years.
What on earth could be the problem with this TV?


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## JoeKustra

tvmaster2 said:


> What on earth could be the problem with this TV?


Evil Spirits.


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## timbracken

jwcollins said:


> Hi all. Just thought I'd post to the group since I was able to debug my problem with V87 errors between a new-ish Tivo mini and our Roamio.
> 
> Both devices are on Cat5e ethernet connections, running back to a gigabit Ethernet switch in our wiring closet. I have both setup with DHCP reservation addresses on our local network, so that their local IP addresses never change. But the mini had been useless. When watching live TV, it would throw a V87 about every 3 minutes.
> 
> I wondered if the ethernet switch was trying to negotiate for gigabit connections despite having only Cat5e cabling. So I substituted patch cables that only run 2 pairs (and thus cannot possibly support gigabit ethernet). That didn't help.
> 
> Then on a lark, I moved both devices to the built-in 4-port switch on my TP-Link router. And that worked! So my conclusion is that my Linksys LGS116P gigabit ethernet switch is at fault. I don't know if it's a bad unit, or if it's buggy firmware, or just plain doesn't play nice with Tivo streaming. But if you're having this V87 problem with your Tivo mini on ethernet, try plugging your Tivos into a different ethernet switch and see if that fixes it.
> 
> Regards,
> Jeff


I think you may be on to something there. I plugged my moca adaptor from my switch by my router into my router directly, and I think that might have been the "fix" to avoid the constant v87 errors on my mini. Hard to say though...and I don't want to reverse it back again to test since I haven't had those errors in weeks!


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## homersby

Same here. 2 minis just started doing this after the last update that seems to have fixed the not releasing tuner problem has created a new problem. Whenever I turn either one on to TV, at some point I get a message about losing signal or MOCA connection. I can get it back right away, but something is definitely wrong and changed just recently. I have not made any changes in my home that would cause this.



Jrr6415sun said:


> unfortunately I am having the same problems. I've been using mini's for a few years without any problems, the last week or so it keeps going out and giving me that connection error.
> 
> I wonder if this is a problem on Tivo's end as that error does sometimes come up when it the mini can't connect to the tivo authorization service.


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## timbracken

Well I bricked my 3 months old mini by watching YouTube. It just froze all of a sudden, and could never get my mini back. Unplug/plug back in and all I get is static TiVo image on screen. Tried multiple times to no avail. Tech support said I did all I can do and have to exchange. Of course I'm just past my 90 day warranty so I have to pay $30. Unbelievable. How common of a problem is this? And 90 days warranty is ridiculous.


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## CybrFyre

Just had to power cycle everything.. couldn't watch live tv or a recording.. all seems well, now.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## pbakers

In the same boat. I have a Roamio Plus and 4 minis. Since sometime in December all minis occasionally drop the connection with the V87 error. Usually only during live TV but I have seen a few during playback. All are hardwired via Ethernet through a TP-Link router and a few switches. Been working fine for 2 years until December and nothing has changed in my network. Sometimes I can go several days without it happening, then it will happen every few minutes for a while. Anyone found a definite fix? Was there an update sometime around Dec 2016 that could have introduced this? Thanks 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## njweb

Same boat here!
Never had issues with TiVo disconnects in the past. Now I am getting "TiVo device has lost connection" (V87) errors every day or two at most. The issue is usually quickly resolved each time, but these disconnects are still annoying (had me thinking my router had an issue).

Hopefully TiVo is reading these posts and will fix it. Forced software updates give us no choice in this matter (users can't even revert to the previous versions).


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## scottchez

I get the same V87 error. I have Two minis, it is worse when using both at the same time or taking one out of sleep mode. Almost like there is a spike in traffic when a new mini is on or is changing channels. I am using MOCA. it says 270 mbps speeds both ways.
TX is -24 if that helps.
Everyone should post an issue on the main Tivo web site, if enough people do they will fix this.


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## krkaufman

scottchez said:


> Everyone should post an issue on the main Tivo web site, if enough people do they will fix this.


Actually, anyone with this problem should be calling TiVo's phone support to log an actual problem ticket. Which is what the TiVo reps on the official forum will likely advise, as well.


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## scottchez

You can also log a case on the official Tivo site here
Contact Us


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## tvmaster2

tvmaster2 said:


> Well, believe it or not, the Vizio TV seems to be the problem. After troubleshooting everything possible, every scenario works EXCEPT plugging into the Vizio's HDMI inputs. It doesn't seem to matter if CEC or ARC features are disabled, but the combination of TiVo Mini and this one, Vizio locks up the TiVo every time.
> Who would have thought.
> And, this just reminded me that one of my satellite receivers died connected via HDMI to this TV, the first of seven satellite receivers that's gone bad in 15 years.
> What on earth could be the problem with this TV?


OK, this gets even weirder. After still more investigation, it would appear that the Vizio is NOT the problem, but instead, the remote with either came with the mini or my Roamio (can't be sure which one came with which, as they look the same). As a lark, I started using a five-year-old Premiere remote with the Mini: no more lock-ups. None. Ziltch. Nada. I sooooo cannot explain this, but if someone else has a logical reason as to why the remote would get locked out, then have at it.


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## JoeKustra

See my post in your other thread.


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## sthomp1390

I just moved half way across the country. I have a Bolt and one Mini. The Bolt is on an Ethernet connection to a Time Warner provided cable modem/router. The recommended splitter sits between the connects the modem and a Terminal Adapter (which connects to the Bolt) to the incoming cable. The mini is on a Cat 5 cable in another room. I had the same setup with the same equipment and most of the same cable at my old house and everything works fine. Here the Mini is dropping connection with a V87 error every five minutes which makes it unusable. The only difference is that the Time Warner tech would not install the POE filter because he couldn't unscramble the cable mess in the garage and find the incoming line! All suggestions welcome.


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## krkaufman

You WILL need to get a "PoE" MoCA filter in place on your incoming cable provider line; however, re: the tuning adapter setup ...


sthomp1390 said:


> The recommended splitter sits between the connects the modem and a Terminal Adapter (which connects to the Bolt) to the incoming cable.


... the first thing to do is get another splitter so that you're not connecting the BOLT via the tuning adapter's "RF/TV Out" port, since that port doesn't support MoCA frequencies.

See >this post< for more info, including an example connection diagram.


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## krkaufman

sthomp1390 said:


> The only difference is that the Time Warner tech would not install the POE filter because he couldn't unscramble the cable mess in the garage and find the incoming line!


I wouldn't think this is an acceptable result from the TWC tech, so you should be able to get them to send another tech gratis, to get the "PoE" MoCA filter in place.


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## fcfc2

sthomp1390 said:


> I just moved half way across the country. I have a Bolt and one Mini. The Bolt is on an Ethernet connection to a Time Warner provided cable modem/router. The recommended splitter sits between the connects the modem and a Terminal Adapter (which connects to the Bolt) to the incoming cable. The mini is on a Cat 5 cable in another room. I had the same setup with the same equipment and most of the same cable at my old house and everything works fine. Here the Mini is dropping connection with a V87 error every five minutes which makes it unusable. The only difference is that the Time Warner tech would not install the POE filter because he couldn't unscramble the cable mess in the garage and find the incoming line! All suggestions welcome.


I don't know how many splitters are located in that "cable mess", but the incoming line is going to be on the input to one of those splitters.
It sounds like it might be a good investment in time to do a little line tracing to figure out which lines feeds which outlets. You might then be able to simplify the incoming wiring to one properly sized splitter for your home, which will also help both reception and MoCA, especially if a proper MoCA optimized splitter is used, like from here. Cable and Satellite Tools - Distributor of Tools for CATV, Satellite, Home Theater, Security, Telecom 
The same folks also sell MoCA filters for a fair price.


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## Mikeguy

fcfc2 said:


> The same folks also sell MoCA filters for a fair price.


_Great_ pricing from TechToolSupply.com: Cable and Satellite Tools - Distributor of Tools for CATV, Satellite, Home Theater, Security, Telecom.


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## sthomp1390

krkaufman said:


> I wouldn't think this is an acceptable result from the TWC tech, so you should be able to get them to send another tech gratis, to get the "PoE" MoCA filter in place.


I collected all the parts to add the second splitter and separate the Tivo from the Terminal Adaptor and it seems to have fixed the problem. Thanks for the help!


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## krkaufman

sthomp1390 said:


> I collected all the parts to add the second splitter and separate the Tivo from the Terminal Adaptor and it seems to have fixed the problem. Thanks for the help!


Great to hear, and thanks for the feedback; good to know when things work out.

That said, I still recommend, when you have the time to trace the cables, gettng a "PoE" MoCA filter in place.


fcfc2 said:


> I don't know how many splitters are located in that "cable mess", but the incoming line is going to be on the input to one of those splitters.
> 
> It sounds like it might be a good investment in time to do a little line tracing to figure out which lines feeds which outlets. You might then be able to simplify the incoming wiring to one properly sized splitter for your home, which will also help both reception and MoCA


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## wmhjr

This just started happening on one of my minis. It has been in service for several years, connected to the same Roamio Pro, on the same CAT6, home runs to a single switch. Nothing whatsoever in any possible definition has changed. I have been running static IPs for years. IP range excluded from DHCP scope on the router. This is clearly and without any shadow of a doubt a Tivo software issue. It seems as though recent SW versions pushed by Tivo has made their devices somehow more sensitive. 

Description of issue: Playing LIVE TV. Then, the audio/video locks, and then get the V87 screen. If I just hit the live TV button, it usually finds a tuner right away and goes back to live TV. Again, clearly IMHO can't be anything other than another Tivo bug. I'm not bothering to call Tivo support. All I'll get is the same "we don't support switches" crap and no possible support. I'll watch it a bit more, but will likely just result in pushing the Tivos out the door a bit faster.


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## zubinh

Frequently when I turn on a TV (its a 39" Insignia TV) that is connected to my mini I get a "No Signal" message from the TV. The Mini does not respond to any commands. The only option is to unplug the Mini and then it starts up normally. This happens about twice a week.

I've heard this is either a HDMI Handshake issue or something needs to be configured in the router. Is there any consensus on whats causing these problems? 

I think what I will try and do is set up the Mini using Component output instead of HDMI and see what happens


----------



## krkaufman

zubinh said:


> I think what I will try and do is set up the Mini using Component output instead of HDMI and see what happens


Good call.


----------



## el-such-n-such

See my update in another forum thread.

20.6.3.RC7 system update: mini disconnects only on liveTV


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## WestCoastD

Hello:

After solid operation for two years-plus my "Living-Room" TiVo Mini unit seems to be non-functional:
With TV powered-ON I'm seeing the "TiVo" screen icon, but no messages or menu, just blank. This screen will drop-out every 1 or 2 minutes, then re-appear- still no message(s) or menu, blank (see attatched image). I get no response when pressing either the "TiVo" or "Live TV" button(s), zero- no audible sound or screen affect.

Upon performing a power-reset on the TiVo Mini unit I experience the same behavior. I've issued 4 or 5 power-reset(s), no change.

My system is set-up:
(a) I have a Roamio DVR in my "Media Room"
(b) One TiVo Mini installed in "Bedroom" system
(c) One TiVo Mini installed in "Living-Room" system
(d) Using MoCA connection-
1. Roamio DVR has, both, coax & etherNET connections. Also using Tuner adapter unit (supplied by Time Warner, now "Spectrum")
2. Using coax cable connection only for each TiVo Mini

I'm getting "normal" TV operation in, both, Bedroom & Media-Room systems.

Seems to me there must be some sort of component-level failure within the Living-Room TiVo unit? Everything was working just fine just the night before.

Appreciate all your constructive input.


Regards,
Dave


----------



## ljiminez

notting said:


> So, after debugging:
> .....
> .....
> 3. switching out a switch on the Roamio side did fix it, even though the Roamio has never shown any network isses (with Netfix, etc).
> .....


I recently had Mini disconnect issues. The funny thing is that Amazon Prime video streaming worked but I still could not connect to the host Roamio to view live TV. I would think that means that my 'networking' is good. Anyway, my issue was solved when I disconnected the Mini from a switch and reconnected it directly to the router.

I got the idea to try that from information I read here. Thanks all.


----------



## Scyth3

Looks like my Netgear GS116Ev2 switch impacts my TiVO Mini's connection based on some basic research. It has IGMP Snooping Status turned on, which apparently conflicts with how TiVO works (since it floods all the ports on the router) causing things to be blocked temporarily creating an outage on my Mini. Here's some info on how to disable that from Netgear: Default IGMP settings may affect multicast streams on NETGEAR Web Managed Plus Switches | Answer | NETGEAR Support

We'll see how this impacts my Mini for the next couple of days. If it fails to fix it, my hunch is the power saving features of the router needs to be disable.


----------



## ej42137

Scyth3 said:


> Looks like my Netgear GS116Ev2 switch impacts my TiVO Mini's connection based on some basic research. It has IGMP Snooping Status turned on, which apparently conflicts with how TiVO works (since it floods all the ports on the router) causing things to be blocked temporarily creating an outage on my Mini. Here's some info on how to disable that from Netgear: Default IGMP settings may affect multicast streams on NETGEAR Web Managed Plus Switches | Answer | NETGEAR Support
> 
> We'll see how this impacts my Mini for the next couple of days. If it fails to fix it, my hunch is the power saving features of the router needs to be disable.


I had exactly the same problem, disabling IGMP snooping on all Netgear switches fixed it for me and some others who reported the same issue here in TCF.


----------



## dcborn61

So what's more likely:


After 6 months of no issues, interference within the coax in my house that disrupts the Moca signal from my Bolt to my Mini
Mini went bad
My setup is a TiVo Bolt in the living room, Mini upstairs, networked via Moca. I hadn't installed a PoE when I got the mini because everything worked perfectly...and my cable box locked access outside to where the cable gets split. Two nights ago, I'd lose live tv or recorded programs every 2 minutes or so with a V78 error. I could back out and usually get video again, but a couple minutes later, it would drop again.

I called TiVo support last night. I got a rep with only very basic networking knowledge. After lots of restarts, testing the Bolt's Internet access, trying to watch live TV, recorded TV or YouTube on the Mini, kept getting the V78 error. Finally, the rep suggested PoE. When I told him I couldn't get access to the outside box, he suggested placing the PoE inside, where the cable comes into my Bolt and cable modem. I tried that, and it did not work, blocking all access to video for the Mini.

So I have Comcast coming tomorrow to install the PoE outside. But back to my question, is it more likely new interference requiring the PoE or that the Mini itself has gone bad?


----------



## Scyth3

dcborn61 said:


> So what's more likely:
> 
> 
> After 6 months of no issues, interference within the coax in my house that disrupts the Moca signal to my Bolt
> Mini went bad
> My setup is a TiVo Bolt in the living room, Mini upstairs, networked via Moca. I hadn't installed a PoE when I got the mini because everything worked perfectly...and my cable box locked access outside to where the cable gets split. Two nights ago, I'd lose live tv or recorded programs every 2 minutes or so with a V78 error. I could back out and usually get video again, but a couple minutes later, it would drop again.
> 
> I called TiVo support last night. I got a rep with only very basic networking knowledge. After lots of restarts, testing the Bolt's Internet access, trying to watch live TV, recorded TV or YouTube on the Bolt, kept getting the V78 error. Finally, the rep suggested PoE. When I told him I couldn't get access to the outside box, he suggested placing the PoE inside, where the cable comes into my Bolt and cable modem. I tried that, and it did not work, blocking all access to video for the Bolt.
> 
> So I have Comcast coming tomorrow to install the PoE outside. But back to my question, is it more likely new interference requiring the PoE or that the Mini itself has gone bad?


What are all the network appliances involved? Switches, router, MoCA adapter, etc...


----------



## krkaufman

dcborn61 said:


> So I have Comcast coming tomorrow to install the PoE outside. But back to my question, is it more likely new interference requiring the PoE or that the Mini itself has gone bad?


Not knowing anything else about your setup, my money would be on the need for a "PoE" MoCA filter.

Aside from gradual degradation of components, your MoCA setup may have been borderline and some small tweak pushed it over the edge. A "PoE" MoCA filter doesn't just block MoCA signals from exiting the home; it also efficiently reflects MoCA signals back onto the coax plant, strengthening the MoCA signals.

Also, if some other home in the neighborhood has MoCA active and also failed to install a "PoE" MoCA filter, the MoCA networks could be conflicting.


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## dcborn61

Scyth3 said:


> What are all the network appliances involved? Switches, router, MoCA adapter, etc...


Arris Tm722g Cable Modem connected to Apple Time Capsule for WiFi, MoCa adapter is the Bolt. Pretty simple setup.


----------



## krkaufman

Oh, before the Comcast tech arrives, you may want to see if you can check/report your MoCA stats -- assuming you're in the window when MoCA is working -- from a connected Mini (not sure if the BOLT has had its Network Status screen fixed).

See here for how to check MoCA stats.

The pre-"PoE" MoCA filter stats might provide insight on being on the edge of the performance cliff, and would, at a minimum, provide for an interesting comparison for after the "PoE" MoCA filter has been installed.


----------



## dcborn61

krkaufman said:


> Oh, before the Comcast tech arrives, you may want to see if you can check/report your MoCA stats -- assuming you're in the window when MoCA is working -- from a connected Mini (not sure if the BOLT has had its Network Status screen fixed).
> 
> See here for how to check MoCA stats.
> 
> The pre-"PoE" MoCA filter stats might provide insight on being on the edge of the performance cliff, and would, at a minimum, provide for an interesting comparison for after the "PoE" MoCA filter has been installed.


Thanks so much for this. I'll document the stats tonight. I was expecting that calling Tivo support would have them look at something like this (I didn't know these stats existed), but it was never suggested by the rep to look at these to see the MoCa quality.


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## dcborn61

So the pre numbers. First off, I have numbers for two different nodes, is that normal? One PHY rate is 120M, the other was 273M.


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## dcborn61

Installation of the PoE fixed my issues. Thanks to @krkaufman, a check of my MoCa numbers showed that there was also a weaker network showing up, probably causing interference. Now with the filter, my Mini only sees one network and its PHY rate increased from 273M to 282M.


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## krkaufman

woot, good to hear! 

And good catch re: the additional MoCA node. My first read of that was, yes, you would always have at least 2 nodes total in a MoCA network, but I see now that you may have been seeing 2 "peer nodes" in your MoCA network stats, meaning the "number of nodes" would have been reported as 3 -- when you only had 2 TiVo devices.

Looks like we can add your tale to the list of examples where a "PoE" MoCA filter was critical.


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## dcborn61

krkaufman said:


> you would always have at least 2 nodes total in a MoCA network, but I see now that you may have been seeing 2 "peer nodes" in your MoCA network stats


Sorry I wasn't clearer. Yes, my Mini reported 3 nodes and 2 peer nodes. Now with PoE, it is 2 nodes and 1 peer node.


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## krkaufman

dcborn61 said:


> Sorry I wasn't clearer. Yes, my Mini reported 3 nodes and 2 peer nodes. Now with PoE, it is 2 nodes and 1 peer node.


Going back to your earlier comment, yeah, TiVo Support should be aware of the Network Status info and using it to diagnose MoCA issues, both by reviewing the MoCA signal values and, as you've demonstrated, verifying a one-to-one relationship between a customer's devices and MoCA nodes.


----------



## rswc90

Did anyone ever reply? I am having similar issues. OR, did you fix it?!


----------



## ramseydad

I just started getting the V87 error a few days ago. I have FIOS and use a MoCA network with one Roamio and 2 Minis. One of the Minis just started having the V87 error about every 10 minutes, making the service unusable. This is a configuration that had been working for a couple of years with no problems. HOWEVER, we had moved one of the Minis to a different room. This Mini had an Xbox connected to the Ethernet port, and like I said, had been working for a couple of years. But the problem did turn out to be the Xbox. If I disconnected it, the V87 error stopped. If I connected the Xbox again (to any Mini or the Roamio), the error started again. Maybe an issue with dynamic IP addresses? Not sure, but the router did not show any duplicates.

Anyway, I was able to resolve the problem by connecting the Xbox directly to the router using an Ethernet cable instead of connecting the Xbox to a TiVo device. Now Xbox can remain connected (to the router) and no more V87 errors on TiVo units.

FYI, I don't have a POE filter on my network. I asked 2 different TiVo support reps whether I need one with FIOS and haven't received a satisfactory error. From what I've read I don't think I need a POE filter because the FIOS ONT will act like a POE filter, but just wondering if anyone knows for sure?


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## krkaufman

A "PoE" MoCA filter isn't required for FiOS to secure the MoCA network, since the MoCA signals can't travel beyond the ONT; however, a MoCA filter installed on the input of the first splitter encountered by the coax coming from the ONT would improve the performance of the MoCA network.

As for the XBOX, connecting it to a Mini's Ethernet port would serve no purpose, since a Mini can't bridge between MoCA and Ethernet; it's interesting that doing so may create network issues, though. When connected via the Mini's Ethernet port, I expect the XBOX was still communicating via wireless.


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## krkaufman

ramseydad said:


> If I connected the Xbox again (to any Mini *or the Roamio*), the error started again.


Curiously, others have also reported connecting an XBOX via the Ethernet port of a MoCA client TiVo DVR has created network issues.


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## ramseydad

Thanks for the feedback, krkaufman. The info about the PoE filter makes sense, I will pick one up to improve MoCA performance. I'm actually a little stumped by your comment about the Ethernet port on the Mini. It makes sense as well, however, we do NOT have Xbox configured with a wireless connection - if we disconnected the Xbox from the Mini and did not have it connected to anything via the Ethernet port, we had no network connection for the Xbox. I don't know why it has a network connection when connected to the Mini if Ethernet cannot be supported over MoCA, but it does (and did for a couple of years without interfering with TiVo). Regardless, connecting the Xbox directly to the router resolved the issue we just started having recently, and has been working perfectly now for the past couple of days. Thanks again for the info.


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## krkaufman

ramseydad said:


> I'm actually a little stumped by your comment about the Ethernet port on the Mini. It makes sense as well, however, we do NOT have Xbox configured with a wireless connection - if we disconnected the Xbox from the Mini and did not have it connected to anything via the Ethernet port, we had no network connection for the Xbox. I don't know why it has a network connection when connected to the Mini if Ethernet cannot be supported over MoCA, but it does (and did for a couple of years without interfering with TiVo.


Wish I'd heard you were doing this back when it worked; would have been interesting to test.


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## JBVA

I had constant issues w/ my Fios router and my Mini (losing connection), which was connected to a Roamio via ethernet. For other reasons I switched to a newer Linksys router (around $100) and was still having issues. I tinkered around w/ the settings of the Linksys and set-up a "DMZ" for the IP addresses of the Mini and the Roamio. This allows them to communicate freely around the firewall (based on my limited understanding). That was months ago and we have had no issues since. Just wanted to pass along since it drove me, and my wife, crazy for a very long time. 

For the Fios router I turned off it's wireless capabilities , but let it handle the IP address distribution (the Roamio and Mini are on static IP's). Also, the Linksys has a phone app which lets you reboot the router without having to walk upstairs. A reboot every few weeks does wonders as well.


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## WestCoastD

My TiVo system appears to be skipping during TV broadcast, going on maybe two weeks now. The broadcast begins to "studder" constantly, eventually dropping-out completely. And this behavior seems to appear usually late in the day (around 06:00pm and later). However during the early day, the broadcast exhibit's mostly "normal" behavior. Naturally, I have bounced (power re-set) router, modem, and main TiVo box on several occasions, but skipping eventually returns. Although on one occasion I bounced the NetGear PowerLine Adapter (for the living room system) and things cleared, but skipping behavior returned the next day.

On a few occasions, while troubleshooting, I get a TiVo message (paraphrasing): "Network connection too slow, v69, etc.,..". At this point I can only think it must be my router? Or possibly a network switch? (I'm using like three throughout my system)

I'm using (in Media Room):
TiVo Roamio Plus-Pro DVR
Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter
NetGear GS605v4 Network Switch
NetGear PLP1200 Powerline 1200 Adapter (passes etherNet throughout house, from Media Room)
Arris TM-1602 Modem
NetGear AC1900 Smart WiFi Router

I'm using (in living room):
TiVo Mini
NetGear GS605v4 Network Switch
NetGear PL1000 Powerline 1000 Adapter (receives etherNet from Media Room)

Also, I'm using etherNet connection for TiVo (obviously), not MoCa. I originally had MoCa set-up, but Spectrum cable technician purposely un-did the separate cable-drop for the MoCa.

As usual, everything has been working okay for quite a while. This behavior, coincidentally, appeared following record summer heat spell here in Southern California (temperatures up to 116 and 118 degrees), so I wonder? My Media Room becomes noticeably warmer later in the day, I'll have to monitor more closely.


----------



## krkaufman

WestCoastD said:


> Also, I'm using etherNet connection for TiVo (obviously), not MoCa.


You're not using Ethernet, you're using Powerline. MoCA would seem to be the better way to go.

You'd also want to look into the IGMP Snooping setting of your Netgear gear. (Though that usually exhibits as an access issue, rather than speed.)


----------



## krkaufman

WestCoastD said:


> I originally had MoCa set-up, but Spectrum cable technician purposely un-did the separate cable-drop for the MoCa.


What "separate cable drop" and what rationalization did he/she supply?


----------



## JoeKustra

WestCoastD said:


> NetGear AC1900 Smart WiFi Router


One: disable IGMP Proxying
Two: disable QoS
Three: MoCA would be better.

I use a R8000 and never have a Mini issue. I usually have one and sometimes three Mini units on-line. The "stutter" issue can be duplicated by using a slow connection. The QoS logic can slow down a connection. A reboot of the router stops the slowdown for a few hours. Also, my R7000 and R7500 had disconnect issues.


----------



## WestCoastD

krkaufman said:


> You're not using Ethernet, you're using Powerline. MoCA would seem to be the better way to go.
> You'd also want to look into the IGMP Snooping setting of your Netgear gear. (Though that usually exhibits as an access issue, rather than speed.)


thanks

As I mentioned I initially used a MoCa setup, worked great for the most part. I liked the fact that the MoCa configuration is separate from the etherNET(yes, etherNET)/Powerline adapter run's, and seemed to provide more bandwidth?

However, we eventually started experiencing unstable/erratic interNET operation, resulting in randomn drop-out's, constantly (while using PC's). And, again, this behavior seemed to worsen late into the day.

So I had Spectrum do a service call. The technician went under the house, analyzed the cable (coax) wiring configuration, he explained: the main cable line coming into the house connected to a splitter, which was then daisy-chained to maybe two other splitters. Essentially there were like 4 drops connected to this splitter array, creating impedance (behaving like an "antenna"). So he chucked the splitter array mess into the trash and started new. He used a single new splitter, then ran two new drops- one drop dedicated to my PC/etherNET infrastructure (ie. modem, router, etc.,..); the other drop dedicated directly to the TiVo set-up (Roamio Plus-Pro DVR & Cisco Tuning Adapter). So I reset my TiVo system for etherNET/Powerline Adapter operation. InterNET service has been mostly solid, not one drop-out. And TV broadcast has been pretty good for the most part, very few (if any) drop-outs, up until two weeks ago.

Furthermore, the Spectrum technician explained to me I would have to request some other 3rd-party service (Geek Squad, etc.,...), to properly set-up/configure a new home network such that I could re-adopt a MoCa operation.

So far, at this point (today, July 22, 2018), I have replaced the Living Room Netgear Switch, and Powerline Adapter with new units, and still experiencing drop-out's, constantly. Frustrated. The only other "suspect's" would be the Media Room- Netgear Switch, TiVo Roamio Plus-Pro DVR, or possibly the Netgear (R7000) Router. Hmmmm......

I have a new Netgear X10 AD7200 (R9000) router, but this change won't be that physically simply for me, it will take a lot of moving around heavy furniture.

My Arris TM-1602 Modem is brand new.


----------



## WestCoastD

JoeKustra said:


> One: disable IGMP Proxying
> Two: disable QoS
> Three: MoCA would be better.
> 
> I use a R8000 and never have a Mini issue. I usually have one and sometimes three Mini units on-line. The "stutter" issue can be duplicated by using a slow connection. The QoS logic can slow down a connection. A reboot of the router stops the slowdown for a few hours. Also, my R7000 and R7500 had disconnect issues.


Thanks for your input.

So far, at this point (today, July 22, 2018), I have replaced the Living Room Netgear Switch, and Powerline Adapter with new units, and still experiencing drop-out's, constantly. Frustrated. The only other "suspect's" would be the Media Room- Netgear Switch, TiVo Roamio Plus-Pro DVR, or possibly the Netgear R7000 Router. Hmmmm......

I have a new Netgear X10 AD7200 (R9000) router, but this change won't be that physically simply for me, it will take a lot of moving around heavy furniture. But since you mention that you experienced disconnect issues with your R7000 router, I would bet money that would be my key issue. It seems my R7000 has been "compromized" by heat and age.

My Arris TM-1602 Modem is brand new.


----------



## krkaufman

WestCoastD said:


> Furthermore, the Spectrum technician explained to me I would have to request some other 3rd-party service (Geek Squad, etc.,...), to properly set-up/configure a new home network such that I could re-adopt a MoCa operation.


This is highly suspect. I certainly agree that the Spectrum technician would/could not help you with setting up a MoCA network, but you should be able to do so solo, maybe w/ some assistance from TCF, provided the technician didn't leave you with a coax plant hostile to MoCA connectivity. (That is, depending on your DIY stance.)

Bottom line, Powerline can work but it's inconsistent. Maybe you added some new electronic device, recently, that is affecting connectivity. (complete speculation) If the drops are available, Ethernet and MoCA are the way to go. I'll leave the Powerline troubleshooting to someone who uses it; but will monitor the thread should you want to re-examine MoCA possibilities.


----------



## WestCoastD

krkaufman said:


> This is highly suspect. I certainly agree that the Spectrum technician would/could not help you with setting up a MoCA network, but you should be able to do so solo, maybe w/ some assistance from TCF, provided the technician didn't leave you with a coax plant hostile to MoCA connectivity. (That is, depending on your DIY stance.)
> 
> Bottom line, Powerline can work but it's inconsistent. Maybe you added some new electronic device, recently, that is affecting connectivity. (complete speculation) If the drops are available, Ethernet and MoCA are the way to go. I'll leave the Powerline troubleshooting to someone who uses it; but will monitor the thread should you want to re-examine MoCA possibilities.


yeah, I would prefer to go back to MoCa. However the technician disconnected the coax leg (underneath my house) that attatched to my Living Room set-up. He also monkeyed around with things behind my main Media Room system rack, re-doing coax connections (I think he removed the MoCa filter and kept it). Actually I could perform the MoCa set-up myself, but I'm in a wheelchair, can't physically manueaver the wiring and equipment.

I would have to somehow "create" a new, additional, coax run to my Living Room system (which is integrated to the main coax line)


----------



## JoeKustra

WestCoastD said:


> Thanks for your input.
> I have a new Netgear X10 AD7200 (R9000) router, but this change won't be that physically simply for me, it will take a lot of moving around heavy furniture. But since you mention that you experienced disconnect issues with your R7000 router, I would bet money that would be my key issue. It seems my R7000 has been "compromized" by heat and age.


Even if you can't do the physical work to change the router (sweet, but $$$), you can still disable QoS and IGMP Proxying on your R7000.

"Heat & Age"? Is that what you call bugs?


----------



## snerd

JoeKustra said:


> "Heat & Age"? Is that what you call bugs?


All electronic devices (especially semiconductors, but even things as basic as resistors) degrade over time, and the rate of degradation is accelerated at higher temperature.


----------



## krkaufman

WestCoastD said:


> yeah, I would prefer to go back to MoCa. However the technician disconnected the coax leg (underneath my house) that attatched to my Living Room set-up. He also monkeyed around with things behind my main Media Room system rack, re-doing coax connections (I think he removed the MoCa filter and kept it). Actually I could perform the MoCa set-up myself, but I'm in a wheelchair, can't physically manueaver the wiring and equipment.
> 
> I would have to somehow "create" a new, additional, coax run to my Living Room system (which is integrated to the main coax line)


Well, having whole coax outlets disconnected certainly fits the "MoCA-hostile" caveat. The "PoE" MoCA filter being removed is the least of your issues.

At a minimum, then, I'd look to get MoCA working where possible (between the DVR and router) to leave Powerline for the device(s)/location(s) that have no other option; and I'd then look to pester/pressure Spectrum to fix the coax plant they left in shambles.

(Honestly, the time-of-day symptoms lead me to suspect that some cable co. component outside your home has heat damage. Unless you have no AC.)


----------



## WestCoastD

JoeKustra said:


> Even if you can't do the physical work to change the router (sweet, but $$$), you can still disable QoS and IGMP Proxying on your R7000


I will check into this today (before I make any physical changes)



JoeKustra said:


> the router (sweet, but $$$)


I purchased back during 2017 holiday sale's on Amazon, pretty good price. Only thing, it's way bigger (and heavier) than I expected


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## WestCoastD

krkaufman said:


> Well, having whole coax outlets disconnected certainly fits the "MoCA-hostile" caveat. The "PoE" MoCA filter being removed is the least of your issues


yeah, if I am able to restore my MoCa set-up I will want a PoE filter



krkaufman said:


> At a minimum, then, I'd look to get MoCA working where possible (between the DVR and router) to leave Powerline for the device(s)/location(s) that have no other option; and I'd then look to pester/pressure Spectrum to fix the coax plant they left in shambles


yeah I have the TiVo Roamio DVR located in the same room with my PC/Network infrastructure (modem, router, PC's, etc.,....). So, could I actually operate in MoCa mode using coax connection between DVR and router [only]? While the two Mini's (one in the Living Room, and one in the Bedroom) connect via-etherNET/Powerline Adapter's ?

Our main TV viewing area is usually in the "Living Room" or "Bedroom" (which are only accessible via-Powerline Adapters presently). I would have to have someone make a few coax cable runs throughout house (either via-attic, or underneath the house- which Spectrum would screw with if they make a service call).

The TiVo Roamio Plus-Pro DVR and PC infrastructure (ie. modem, router, network drives, PC's) are located in my "Media Room", where I have a home theater. I built the complete system, including- custom made cable's and wiring. I only needed someone to move stuff around. Took me literally 6 months



krkaufman said:


> (Honestly, the time-of-day symptoms lead me to suspect that some cable co. component outside your home has heat damage. Unless you have no AC.)


we have AC but it's not completely efficient. The location of my network infrastructure is positioned nearly in front of a window such that the late-afternoon sun appears. It definitely gets warm during summer months. And it's no coincidence that our troubles began just after experiencing record heat two weeks ago (118 degrees, here in Los Angeles suburbs).

I've attatched an image of my PC infrastructure table: the Netgear router sits on the upper shelf/deck, along-side the Arris modem, and speakers. Below the shelf/upper-deck are three WD MyBook network (NAS) drives, along-side Netgear switch on one side, APC UPS and Alienware PC on the otherside. The MyBook drives generate heat underneath the upper-shelf making the environment warm/hot for the router above. I plan to install a fan while I'm swapping-out the Netgear router for the new model (R9000).


----------



## WestCoastD

JoeKustra said:


> Even if you can't do the physical work to change the router (sweet, but $$$), you can still disable QoS and IGMP Proxying on your R7000


I checked these settings, none were enabled (and they were never ever touched by me).

I also noticed that there are new router updates that have never been installed, not sure if this would help my situation?


----------



## JoeKustra

WestCoastD said:


> I checked these settings, none were enabled (and they were never ever touched by me).
> I also noticed that there are new router updates that have never been installed, not sure if this would help my situation?


I finally installed my update. I held off for a year. It changed my UI for connected devices. I finally figured how often I use it and just installed it to get rid of the message. I asked Netgear if they could get back the other UI, but it was like talking to TiVo's support - waste of time. I hope you get stuff working.

I have tested four simultaneous HD streams to my Mini units with the R8000. It has the power. I hope you get that R9000 on-line.


----------



## HerronScott

JoeKustra said:


> I finally installed my update. I held off for a year. It changed my UI for connected devices. I finally figured how often I use it and just installed it to get rid of the message. I asked Netgear if they could get back the other UI, but it was like talking to TiVo's support - waste of time. I hope you get stuff working.


Probably a good thing since the recent Netgear updates have been security related (including VPNfilter hack) even if yours is not one of the ones on this list (we had at least 2 on our older WNDR4000).

FBI: Protect yourself from VPNFilter malware; reboot your router now

Scott


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## Pacomartin

I have an ARRIS MG2 DVR and two mini compatible boxes running TiVo software. There is no MOCA being used, but the DVR and more often the secondary boxes needed to be hard rebooted frequently.
I bought a gigabit TPLINK switch from Home Depot for $16 and plugged the DVR and the minis into there, and then connected the switch to the router. I figured that if the internet went down I would still have a LAN and allow me to watch Live TV on the minis. It works like a charm, but it also greatly reduced the number of time I had to do a hard reboot.


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## sophosoft

Does anyone know if the 10 units per TiVo Account (full and minis, regardless of physical network location) limitation issue has ever been resolved?

My unit expansion last year put me over 10 units on my TiVo account which caused my mini client boxes to fail to find their primary server boxes in all locations where minis were present. Back then I had to move off some of my old inactive boxes to a second TiVo user account to fix the issue (after MUCH head scratching on this not well caveated issue), but fear it will rear its ugly head again now that I see TiVo has auto-added my new "Summer Breeze" units to my primary TiVo account and thus put me over 10 total units again on my original TiVo account. :grimacing:

Thanks for any insight/news.


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## JoeKustra

I thought it was 12.


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## sophosoft

For me, the relief from the issue only seemed to come when I dropped back below 10 devices per account (as I finally found on Page 10 of the original TiVo Mini User Guide under "Home network and account requirements"):

https://mediacomcc.custhelp.com/euf...eo_equip_user_guides/tivo_mini_user guide.pdf

Can't seem to find a version of the specs newer than that v1.0 one, though.


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## JoeKustra

This indicates 12: Tivo Customer Support Community

Just checking. I have 10 active and 2 inactive.


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## sophosoft

:sunglasses: They must have upped it at some point (just wish it were some larger binary number like 16 or 32 that both made sense and was unlikely to ever come into play).


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## mvpgoblue

Scyth3 said:


> Looks like my Netgear GS116Ev2 switch impacts my TiVO Mini's connection based on some basic research. It has IGMP Snooping Status turned on, which apparently conflicts with how TiVO works (since it floods all the ports on the router) causing things to be blocked temporarily creating an outage on my Mini. Here's some info on how to disable that from Netgear: Default IGMP settings may affect multicast streams on NETGEAR Web Managed Plus Switches | Answer | NETGEAR Support
> 
> We'll see how this impacts my Mini for the next couple of days. If it fails to fix it, my hunch is the power saving features of the router needs to be disable.


Well, here we are a year later. I was having problems with my Mini also. I replaced an older switch with the same GS116Ev2 switch (not knowing all of the above) and the problems got WORSE affecting both a Mini and a Mini VOX. I just turned off IGMP Snooping and so far so good! This has been plaguing me for months. I had looked through some threads but focused on the first and last pages of this thread. I started re-reading everything I could and came across this solution.

I'm not sure you guys will ever see this, but THANK YOU SO MUCH! I hope this really is my solution as I've been through a nightmare of challenges with TiVo and any other support I could find. That has included changing cables, settings, swapping out a Mini for a refurbished one, etc.


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## ej42137

JoeKustra said:


> This indicates 12: Tivo Customer Support Community
> 
> Just checking. I have 10 active and 2 inactive.


I have 14 active and 6 inactive. If I turn "Video Sharing" and "Enable Video Downloads" on for too many devices I have connection problems. I also had problems when IGMP was turned on, of course.


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## JoeKustra

ej42137 said:


> I have 14 active and 6 inactive. If I turn "Video Sharing" and "Enable Video Downloads" on for too many devices I have connection problems. I also had problems when IGMP was turned on, of course.


I disabled "Enable Video Downloads". Now I can't download my Amazon videos. I'm stuck with streaming them.


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## ej42137

JoeKustra said:


> I disabled "Enable Video Downloads". Now I can't download my Amazon videos. I'm stuck with streaming them.


Wow! You still have downloadable Amazon videos? I thought that was ended a long time ago. Are you running a Series 3?

To be clear, I only disabled video sharing and downloads for the devices no longer in service; my active devices have these enabled and the features work for those devices.

(These days if something is available on Amazon or other streaming service I watch it there in preference to a TiVo recording because the quality is so much better, and the commercials have already been removed. My smart TV and my Roku have a more responsive interface than the TiVo which is another advantage. Trick-play is problematical because every streaming service uses a different UI, but since there aren't any commercials to skip in the first place that becomes a minor issue.)


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## JoeKustra

ej42137 said:


> Wow! You still have downloadable Amazon videos? I thought that was ended a long time ago. Are you running a Series 3?
> To be clear, I only disabled video sharing and downloads for the devices no longer in service; my active devices have these enabled and the features work for those devices.
> (These days if something is available on Amazon or other streaming service I watch it there in preference to a TiVo recording because the quality is so much better, and the commercials have already been removed. My smart TV and my Roku have a more responsive interface than the TiVo which is another advantage. Trick-play is problematical because every streaming service uses a different UI, but since there aren't any commercials to skip in the first place that becomes a minor issue.)


I forget to add [joke] to posts sometimes. The funny part of the (now-dead) Amazon download ability is with TE3, the Transfer History page in Network Troubleshooting is still there.

I always use my TiVo for streaming Amazon video. It's got fewer bugs than my Roku Ultra and it's faster than my Sony Blu-ray. But once things get going, they are equal as far as PQ (1080/p24) and DD+. Roku is my first choice for Pandora. Most free streaming content is sent as PCM stereo. I prefer DD 5.1.


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## WestCoastD

WestCoastD said:


> My TiVo system appears to be skipping during TV broadcast, going on maybe two weeks now. The broadcast begins to "studder" constantly, eventually dropping-out completely. And this behavior seems to appear usually late in the day (around 06:00pm and later). However during the early day, the broadcast exhibit's mostly "normal" behavior. Naturally, I have bounced (power re-set) router, modem, and main TiVo box on several occasions, but skipping eventually returns. Although on one occasion I bounced the NetGear PowerLine Adapter (for the living room system) and things cleared, but skipping behavior returned the next day.
> 
> On a few occasions, while troubleshooting, I get a TiVo message (paraphrasing): "Network connection too slow, v69, etc.,..". At this point I can only think it must be my router? Or possibly a network switch? (I'm using like three throughout my system)
> 
> I'm using (in Media Room):
> TiVo Roamio Plus-Pro DVR
> Cisco STA1520 Tuning Adapter
> NetGear GS605v4 Network Switch
> NetGear PLP1200 Powerline 1200 Adapter (passes etherNet throughout house, from Media Room)
> Arris TM-1602 Modem
> NetGear X10 R9000 Smart WiFi Router
> 
> I'm using (in living room):
> TiVo Mini
> NetGear GS605v4 Network Switch
> NetGear PL1000 Powerline 1000 Adapter (receives etherNet from Media Room)
> 
> Also, I'm using etherNet connection for TiVo (obviously), not MoCa. I originally had MoCa set-up, but Spectrum cable technician purposely un-did the separate cable-drop for the MoCa.
> 
> As usual, everything has been working okay for quite a while. This behavior, coincidentally, appeared following record summer heat spell here in Southern California (temperatures up to 116 and 118 degrees), so I wonder? My Media Room becomes noticeably warmer later in the day, I'll have to monitor more closely.





WestCoastD said:


> well, this is a follow-up to my previous post:
> 
> After switching-out my old NetGear R7000 router to a new X10 R9000 model; swapping-out all NetGear wall-adapter unit's to new NetGear unit's; swapping-out all NetGear switches to new NetGear unit's, I'm still experiencing drop-out's from my TiVo Mini. Upon powering-up video is operational, however after maybe 3 to 5 min it freezes and drop's-out permanently. I swapped my bedroom Mini to the living room Mini, getting same behavior. Seems my power adapter-linked etherNet (network) is just not providing optimized enough signal? Frustrated as hell........(angry wife too)


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## krkaufman

WestCoastD said:


> well, this is a follow-up to my previous post:
> 
> After switching-out my old NetGear R7000 router to a new X10 R9000 model; swapping-out all NetGear wall-adapter unit's to new NetGear unit's; swapping-out all NetGear switches to new NetGear unit's, I'm still experiencing drop-out's from my TiVo Mini. Upon powering-up video is operational, however after maybe 3 to 5 min it freezes and drop's-out permanently. I swapped my bedroom Mini to the living room Mini, getting same behavior. Seems my power adapter-linked etherNet (network) is just not providing optimized enough signal? Frustrated as hell........(angry wife too)


I understand the previously stated roadblocks, but MoCA remains the obvious solution. (And I would think an escalation with your provider would be in order given your situation and that the previous technician broke your in-home setup.)

edit: p.s. It sounds like you need somebody to connect the Mini runs to a new unbalanced 3-way splitter in the crawlspace, connecting the DVR line to the low-loss output ... similar to the following _(ignoring network switch connections for simplicity)_:






​


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## WestCoastD

krkaufman said:


> I understand the previously stated roadblocks, but MoCA remains the obvious solution. (And I would think an escalation with your provider would be in order given your situation and that the previous technician broke your in-home setup.)
> 
> edit: p.s. It sounds like you need somebody to connect the Mini runs to a new unbalanced 3-way splitter in the crawlspace, connecting the DVR line to the low-loss output ... similar to the following _(ignoring network switch connections for simplicity)_:
> 
> View attachment 36945​


yes, you're correct (returning to MoCA- setting-up an independent, internal, coax-based network for Mini's, that would do it). Thanks!

I'm frustrated because the etherNET set-up functioned pretty well for a good while, then it became compromised for some reason?


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## krkaufman

WestCoastD said:


> I'm frustrated because the etherNET set-up functioned pretty well for a good while, then it became compromised for some reason?


Understandable frustration, but again ... it's not an Ethernet setup; it's Powerline. Not trying to be pedantic, even if it's the net result. Describing your Powerline setup as Ethernet could confuse those who might not thoroughly review the thread and your setup details. Powerline is far less reliable than Ethernet.

(MoCA adapters also have Ethernet ports to which devices are connected, but you wouldn't refer to several connected MoCA adapters as an Ethernet setup.)


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## WestCoastD

krkaufman said:


> but again ... it's not an Ethernet setup; it's Powerline


okay, I get it, thanks (semantics )


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## WestCoastD

okay, so I contacted TiVo Technical Support earlier today. The technician essentially directed me to "simplify" my set-up as much as possible while on the phone- ie. make direct connections where possible, avoid or remove in-line switches where possible.

Once again, just for the record, I have:
(a) *TiVo Roamio Plus DVR* w/*Cisco STA-1520 Tuning Adapter* (all mounted in my main AV system rack in my *"Media Room"*)
1. *Roamio* cable (coax) INP directly connected to the main cable (coax) line-in
2. *Roamio* etherNET port line is directly connected to the (AV rack-mounted) *NetGear switch* (along with 3 other rack-mounted AV components).
3. A separate etherNET cable is connected from the *NetGear switch* directly to the *NetGear X10 R9000* router (mounted on PC table in "Media Room").
4. A separate etherNET cable is connected from the *NetGear X10 R9000 *router port into an (AC outlet-mounted) *NetGear Powerline adapter* etherNET port.

Cable TV broadcast operation is excellent on *"Media Room"* *Pioneer Kuro plasma monitor*.

(b) TiVo Mini in my "Bedroom" (connected via-etherNET port into an AC outlet-mounted NetGear Powerline Adapter etherNET port).
1. The TiVo Mini HDMI OUT port is directly connected to a HDMI switch HDMI INP port.
2. The HDMI switch HDMI monitor OUT port is directly connected to a Samsung LED monitor

Cable TV broadcast operation is good, and consistent, on the "Bedroom" Samsung monitor.

(c) TiVo Mini in my "Living Room" (connected via-etherNET port directly to a rack-mounted NetGear switch).
1. A separate etherNET cable connect's the NetGear switch to an AC outlet-mounted NetGear Powerline Adapter etherNET port.
2. The TiVo Mini HDMI OUT port is directly connected to a Denon AV2112CI receiver HDMI INP (which has "HDMI Pass-thru" function).
3. Denon AV2112CI HDMI monitor OUT is connected directly to Samsung LED monitor.

Cable TV broadcast drop's-out completely (after 2 to 5 minutes) on "Living Room" Samsung monitor.

So I bypassed, both, Media Room and Living Room NetGear switches (running etherNET cables directly to NetGear Powerline Adapter etherNET port's). Cable broadcast still dropping-out permanently after maybe 2 to 5 minutes of operation. Frustrated again. But I have to figure this out.


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## krkaufman

Switch the Minis and see if there's any difference. Switch the Powerline adapters and see if there's any difference. Buy a different brand of Powerline adapter as a test.

Alternatively, get Spectrum or someone else to fix the coax plant.

If you're wanting to stick with Powerline, maybe start a fresh dedicated thread with Powerline in the title, so that it might catch the eye those who have had success with Powerline. (@dianebrat)


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## dianebrat

krkaufman said:


> Switch the Minis and see if there's any difference. Switch the Powerline adapters and see if there's any difference. Buy a different brand of Powerline adapter as a test.
> 
> Alternatively, get Spectrum or someone else to fix the coax plant.
> 
> If you're wanting to stick with Powerline, maybe start a fresh dedicated thread with Powerline in the title, so that it might catch the eye those who have had success with Powerline. (@dianebrat)


Thanks @krkaufman for the heads up.
@WestCoastD you keep calling it "ethernet" when you're connected to a powerline adapter, please please stop doing that, it's not an ethernet connection as far as networking is concerned, ethernet also doesn't have the NET capitalized FWIW...

The right answer to test where the issue is would be for you to start by taking the mini and a small monitor into the room with the ethernet router and plugging it in directly with RJ45 and then testing, if you pass that test you know it's something in your setup, not the mini or host.

Powerline adapters are picky when you have older wiring, bad grounds, etc, any one of those can cause issues with a mini, if possible you want them as close to possible from a wiring standpoint, on the same breaker, certainly on the same breaker box. I've seen them freak out with bad wiring. You can run powerline adapters as slow as 100m and the mini will be fine, but the key is the solid connection, I recommend no encryption or custom names on the powerline adapters while testing, I also recommend they be a matched set.

I'm assuming you only have 2 powerline adapters, so I suggest possibly moving the ingress adapter where you're bring the signal in to a different circuit.
I'll also suggest MoCA as an option.


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## krkaufman

dianebrat said:


> I'm assuming you only have 2 powerline adapters


3 total, per previous posts. 1 access point, 2 remote adapters - with one Powerline'd remote location not exhibiting the problematic behavior.

Do Powerline adapters have status pages or monitoring utilities that can assist in evaluating connection quality?


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## dianebrat

krkaufman said:


> 3 total, per previous posts. 1 access point, 2 remote adapters - with one Powerline'd remote location not exhibiting the problematic behavior.
> 
> Do Powerline adapters have status pages or monitoring utilities that can assist in evaluating connection quality?


So swapping the adapters should be easy to spot a bad one, and there are utilities that come with them or can be downloaded off the MFR website to check on them, but it's pretty much pass/fail.
Just simple things like bad grounding will flake the adapters so good wiring that has been verified is step 1, I've also had some adapters that don't play well with others and usually by tossing a mini on the slowest adapter I have resolved any hiccups. Another thing is to make sure there are no items such as air conditioners, microwaves, fridges, etc on either of the AC lines you're using for powerline adapters.


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