# HR10-250 w/ off-air HD antenna



## marvinman (Oct 24, 2003)

If I buy a HR10-250 and keep my 101 round dish and get an off-air HD antenna will I be able to integrate the local HD channels into the HR10-250. I.E. can I recode the local HD channels?


----------



## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

Yep, the HR10-250 will integrate your OTA HD channels seamlessly into the guide for viewing and recording.

(Not sure what you mean by "recode"... but the HR10-250 doesn't do any re-encoding of digital channels, it just stores the bitstream to the hard drive and plays it back at source quality.)


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

D* told me I needed an off-air antenna to get local channels in HD. However that was not the case and did not need to add an off-air- antenna. I guess it depends on where you live but 3 different reps told me I needed it, but others around me said no and they where right.


----------



## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

tubsone said:


> D* told me I needed an off-air antenna to get local channels in HD. However that was not the case and did not need to add an off-air- antenna. I guess it depends on where you live but 3 different reps told me I needed it, but others around me said no and they where right.


are you sure you are getting HD then? Unless you are in one of the large markets where HD has been rolled out over the satellite using their new mpeg receiver which is not a DVR. Based on your comments, I dont understand how you would be getting HD then.

I saw a statistic recently that 50% of the people with a HD tv think they are receiving HD channels when in reality they are not. The new tv's make standard definition look better.

Fred


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

fjwagner said:


> are you sure you are getting HD then? Unless you are in one of the large markets where HD has been rolled out over the satellite using their new mpeg receiver which is not a DVR. Based on your comments, I dont understand how you would be getting HD then.
> 
> I saw a statistic recently that 50% of the people with a HD tv think they are receiving HD channels when in reality they are not. The new tv's make standard definition look better.
> 
> Fred


4sure I am getting HD channels in HD! Anybody that knows what's up can tell the difference between Standard and HD. The difference between my ST and my HD channels is insane. My home audio guy told me first I didnt need an off-air antenna to get locals in HD. I think it's pretty crazy 3 different reps would tell me I need an off-air antenna when I really dont!?


----------



## marvinman (Oct 24, 2003)

etsolow said:


> Yep, the HR10-250 will integrate your OTA HD channels seamlessly into the guide for viewing and recording.
> 
> (Not sure what you mean by "recode"... but the HR10-250 doesn't do any re-encoding of digital channels, it just stores the bitstream to the hard drive and plays it back at source quality.)


Cool thx.
Oops that was just a type-o. I meant "record"


----------



## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

tubsone said:


> 4sure I am getting HD channels in HD! Anybody that knows what's up can tell the difference between Standard and HD. The difference between my ST and my HD channels is insane. My home audio guy told me first I didnt need an off-air antenna to get locals in HD. I think it's pretty crazy 3 different reps would tell me I need an off-air antenna when I really dont!?


I just dont understand how you get ota HD without an antenna. You went through the set up where you put in your zip code and did a search for local digital stations? When you access those local HD stations, do you use numbers like 8.1, 11.1, 13.1. I suspect you are actually getting some national HD feeds rather than OTA. Fred


----------



## MurrayW (Aug 28, 2005)

tubsone said:


> 4sure I am getting HD channels in HD! Anybody that knows what's up can tell the difference between Standard and HD. The difference between my ST and my HD channels is insane. My home audio guy told me first I didnt need an off-air antenna to get locals in HD. I think it's pretty crazy 3 different reps would tell me I need an off-air antenna when I really dont!?


So you have no cable hooked up to the antenna in input and are still picking up local stations? Sometimes even having a length of cable hooked up to an input can act as an antenna if the signal strength is very high where you are located.

What channel numbers are your locals on? Is it in the 80's? Since you are in L.A. my guess is that you are getting the national feed for LA HD stations. Do you get your local PBS, WB, etc. in HD or is it just the major networks (CBS, ABC, FOX and NBC)?


----------



## darrinbutts (Nov 9, 2004)

tubsone is in Los Angeles.
I am guessing he is getting some of the local HD channels via satellite.
CBS, ABC, NBC and FOX are the locals for LA that directv provides.
Although you do need an OTA antenna to get the 2 PBS stations in HD and a couple independent stations in HD as well as numerous other digital TV channels and subchannels where are mostly in 480p. I'm not sure if 480p is officially considered HD or not.

And of course the OTA signals are noticably better than the HD locals in MPEG2 that
DTV is providing.


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

MurrayW said:


> So you have no cable hooked up to the antenna in input and are still picking up local stations? Sometimes even having a length of cable hooked up to an input can act as an antenna if the signal strength is very high where you are located.
> 
> What channel numbers are your locals on? Is it in the 80's? Since you are in L.A. my guess is that you are getting the national feed for LA HD stations. Do you get your local PBS, WB, etc. in HD or is it just the major networks (CBS, ABC, FOX and NBC)?


Interesting??....Now you guys have me thinking with all this PBS HD and other stuff. I didnt know PBS had an HD channel? So here's my set-up and maybe you guys will figure it out since I am new to this HD stuff, but have done alot of reading and research on it and my home audio guy is real good.I have an HR 10-250 HD BOX and 2 cables running to the dish and a 42" Panasonic Plasma T.V. I just got this stuff and some other toys 2 weeks before the Super Bowl. So in my set-up and calling D* this is when 3 different reps told me I need an off-air to get locals all of them they said because I wanted the Super Bowl in HD. MY home audio guy and others around said no? So it got hooked-up and there they where 81,83,87,89,70-79 minus 77? Is there more? PBS(not sure I would want it) and/or WB(which I would want!) Is there an UPN HD and K-cal HD? and if there is I'am not getting them because I dont have an OFF-AIR ANTENNA?


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

One more thing about the singal strength and maybe that's why? The signal stength is 99 and 100.


----------



## hoopsbwc34 (Jan 28, 2003)

etsolow said:


> Yep, the HR10-250 will integrate your OTA HD channels seamlessly into the guide for viewing and recording.


Out of curiousity, is the OTA guide data based on the zip code you enter in the setup, your locals you receive via sat, or what it can receive and decode over the air? ie... if I take my Tivo with me where the OTA's are different than my home can I tell Tivo that through the zip code so I can get the OTA's while I am there?

Edit:

Instead of hijacking this thread, I created a new one


----------



## kepper (Nov 28, 2003)

tubsone said:


> Interesting??....Now you guys have me thinking with all this PBS HD and other stuff. I didnt know PBS had an HD channel? ...


Here in Los Angeles there are seven local stations that broadcast some programming in HD, you get four of the seven from D*. Most people (myself included) feel that the HD picture quality you get from D* is not as good as the quality you get by receiving the same channels directly OTA with an antenna, and I watch and record all local stations via OTA for that reason.

Local HD channels you don't get from D* are PBS channels 28-1 and 50-1, and channel 5-1 is the WB station. The PBS HD channels sometimes have some very nice eye candy and broadcast in HD much of the time, not just in primetime like the commercial channels do. Channels 9-1 and 13-1 also broadcast on their digital OTA channels; even though all of that programming is SD, the OTA quality is significantly better than you get from D*.

Additionally, some of the OTA digital channels have "subchannels" that you can get with OTA; for example, NBC and ABC have subchannels that carry weather and traffic info.

So, you do need an OTA antenna to get all the local HD channels, and to get the best possible quality.

Kevin


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

kepper said:


> Here in Los Angeles there are seven local stations that broadcast some programming in HD, you get four of the seven from D*. Most people (myself included) feel that the HD picture quality you get from D* is not as good as the quality you get by receiving the same channels directly OTA with an antenna, and I watch and record all local stations via OTA for that reason.
> 
> Local HD channels you don't get from D* are PBS channels 28-1 and 50-1, and channel 5-1 is the WB station. The PBS HD channels sometimes have some very nice eye candy and broadcast in HD much of the time, not just in primetime like the commercial channels do. Channels 9-1 and 13-1 also broadcast on their digital OTA channels; even though all of that programming is SD, the OTA quality is significantly better than you get from D*.
> 
> ...


Thanks Kevin I think I'll be looking into getting an OTA antenna because I would like to have the WB in HD! How much better is the quality for HD channels v.s. what I'am getting now? Is it with the ONLY the locals or all the HD channels? I think the quality now on the locals is excellent!....can it be better!....I guess it can but how much more! I watch and record them at 1080i.


----------



## fjwagner (Jan 22, 2006)

tubsone said:


> Thanks Kevin I think I'll be looking into getting an OTA antenna


You might want to try an indoor antenna first which is certainly the easiest way to go. I have a Zenith Silver Sensor that works great here in Houston but I am only 13 miles away from the antenna farm. Only paid around $25 for it. Go to antennaweb.org first though to see how far away you are and what direction you are from the transmissions. Once you know that, you can make a decision if you need an outdoor antenna. You also need to know if you need UHF or UHF/VHF. UHF are numbers 14 through 60 something. The HD channels are often on UHF but will be "re-assigned" a number based upon their original analog channel number. Hence the 2.1, 6.1 etc. But they may actually transmit on 45 for example (UHF). I expect some of the LA readers can give you better advice for LA specific needs. Fred


----------



## rlj5242 (Dec 20, 2000)

tubsone said:


> I watch and record them at 1080i.


 No, you record them at whatever they are broadcast in. What's the native resolution of your plasma? If it's 720p, then you need to set your HR10-250's output to 720p. That way stations like ABC, Fox and ESPN will not be converted. If the native resolution is 1080i, then you are OK.

-Robert


----------



## kepper (Nov 28, 2003)

tubsone said:


> Thanks Kevin I think I'll be looking into getting an OTA antenna because I would like to have the WB in HD! How much better is the quality for HD channels v.s. what I'am getting now? Is it with the ONLY the locals or all the HD channels? I think the quality now on the locals is excellent!....can it be better!....I guess it can but how much more! I watch and record them at 1080i.


D* re-compresses the local HD channels to save satellite bandwidth so their picture quality is not quite as good as what you will get from OTA reception.

The quality difference between OTA HD vs D* is noticable to me, but not so much better that I would install an antenna simply for quality reasons. The quality difference is most apparent on CBS and Fox (which use the full digital bandwidth on their OTA channel for HD). NBC and ABC both have several subchannels which cause their HD channel to have less available bandwidth. Therefore they have to compress their HD more than CBS does, and to my eyes, their HD quality is not quite as good as CBS. But, as the commercial says, "your mileage may vary".

Don't expect an astonishing difference between D*'s HD and OTA HD. I installed my antenna for WB and for the PBS stations. The only thing that you will see a possible quality difference is with the local channels, the other HD programming you get from D* will be unaffected.

You can search this forum and you'll find NUMEROUS threads on D*'s HD quality and analysis that people have done, you can then decide for yourself.

In Los Angeles all of the transmitters are on top of Mt. Wilson which makes reception simpler than in some other locations that may have multiple tower locations. I suggest that you look at www.antennaweb.org That site will tell you how far away from the tower sites you are, what direction you have to point the antenna towards, and recommend what type of antenna to buy. All of the digital channels are UHF today; probably in 2009 a couple of them will go back to VHF. That may or may not dictate your antenna choice.

Kevin


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

kepper said:


> D* re-compresses the local HD channels to save satellite bandwidth so their picture quality is not quite as good as what you will get from OTA reception.
> 
> The quality difference between OTA HD vs D* is noticable to me, but not so much better that I would install an antenna simply for quality reasons. The quality difference is most apparent on CBS and Fox (which use the full digital bandwidth on their OTA channel for HD). NBC and ABC both have several subchannels which cause their HD channel to have less available bandwidth. Therefore they have to compress their HD more than CBS does, and to my eyes, their HD quality is not quite as good as CBS. But, as the commercial says, "your mileage may vary".
> 
> ...


Kevin THE MAN with all the info! THANK YOU SIR for the local SO CAL INFO  (GO DODGERS)!........and thank you to everybody else who posted. I guess I got some research to do? This TIVO community thing is a nice resourse!


----------



## tubsone (Apr 15, 2006)

rlj5242 said:


> No, you record them at whatever they are broadcast in. What's the native resolution of your plasma? If it's 720p, then you need to set your HR10-250's output to 720p. That way stations like ABC, Fox and ESPN will not be converted. If the native resolution is 1080i, then you are OK.
> 
> -Robert


Can someone tell me the difference between 1080i and 720p and which is better and why? I have a Panasonic plasma TH-42PX50U with an native resolution of 1024x768 and HDTV Compatibility of 420p,720p, and 1080i. On my HR10-250 when I have the 1080i on v.s. the 720p setting it seems to my naked eye that it 1080i looks better then 720p.


----------



## A J Ricaud (Jun 25, 2002)

tubsone said:


> Can someone tell me the difference between 1080i and 720p and which is better and why? I have a Panasonic plasma TH-42PX50U with an native resolution of 1024x768 and HDTV Compatibility of 420p,720p, and 1080i. On my HR10-250 when I have the 1080i on v.s. the 720p setting it seems to my naked eye that it 1080i looks better then 720p.


720p is supposed to look better where there is a lot of motion, as in sports progams; and, 1080i theoretically has higher resolution. That said, the only thing that matters is what you perceive.

Your eyes are not deceiving you. Many 720p TVs like DLPs and LCDs at 768p look better when fed 1080i signals than 720p signals, even though the TV has to scale it to its native resolution.

Bottom line: Set the HD Tivo's resolution at whatever looks best on your TV.


----------

