# TiVo HD picture freezes



## andyw715

Sometimes while switching channels on one tune while another is recording. The buffer will only record about 2 seconds of video then stop, freeze frame. The audio is still playing.

When this happens, any video (stuff in NPL and live video) does the same.

The only recourse is to reset the system.

Is this indication of a pending failure somewhere? (The TivoHD is about 3 months old)

Note: this is a TiVo HD connected via analog cable service.

Thanks


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## richwiss

I just got the same thing -- did you ever figure out the problem?


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## MungoJerrie

You probably want to check out this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365824

It appears to be a bug.


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## Interactive

MungoJerrie said:


> You probably want to check out this thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365824
> 
> It appears to be a bug.


I believe this is a different problem than the one in your linked thread. I found this thread while trying to research a recent problem with a 28 day-old Tivo HD where the video just freezes. It's now happened 3 times within 1 week with the exact same circumstances. Video just stops playing but the audio typically keeps on going. Even if I return to Now Playing and select a recorded show, we get the same result: freeze frame video and the audio keeps going. A couple of times tonight the audio stopped as well, however.

In every case, when I go through the menu initiated reset, it clears the problem for now.

With the unit being 28 days old and having been purchased at BB, I'm temped to bring it back tomorrow for a replacement.

Before I do, I sure wish someone could confirm this is a hardware issue vs. a known issue on the software side.


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## bdlucas

I've been seeing the same problem in the past few weeks. Any channel you switch to will show video for a couple of seconds and then freeze, with the audio still going. Switch to another channel and it does the same thing.

Have to believe this is a software glitch.


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## Interactive

bdlucas said:


> Have to believe this is a software glitch.


I tend to agree, but it seems that if it were software, more people would be posting since we're all running the same stuff.

Is it possible there's a hardware issue beginning to pop up?

I haven't checked but isn't my S3 using the same software version? I've had that unit for several months and never saw anything like this.


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## tivoROCKSme

I have the exact same symptoms here. It's happened twice to me in the past 5 days. I hope it doesn't get worse. Video freezes, audio usually continues. Doesn't matter if it's a previously recorded program or live tv. You can sometimes fast forward, but as soon as you resume normal play, video freeze. Anyone else? Software bug?


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## Interactive

It hasn't happened to me since my last post. I spoke with TiVo tech support who told me to try power cycling the unit rather than just a soft reset from the UI. Of course, that's a basic, lame response from a tech support line.


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## dnapier

I've had the same problem with my TivoHD. The unit is less than a month old and started this within the first week. I was hoping it was just a handshaking issue with HDMI, but the same thing happens with component cables. This appears to be the same bug that causes some users to get the "gray screen". Problem is temporarily solved with a reboot of the Tivo, but re-occurs about every 4 days.
Anyone found a cure, yet?


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## gmark

When this problem "goes away", does it still affect the recorded material? That is, is the problem only in playback, or is it in the recording? 

Also, is it limited to HD material? I've noticed that there are some recordings that are affected and some that aren't, and they remain so -- an affected recording is just damaged, and a non-affected recording isn't, so it doesn't seem to be related to the playing, but rather how the material was recorded.

Sound like what others are seeing?

Mark


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## cleadeb

I am having the same issue and it is only when I am recording or viewing HD content. The video freezes and the audio continues to play and if I switch to the other tuner and then come back, it clears up. Sometimes, I can even just rewind and it fixes the issue. Additionally, I am having problems where the audio goes out and then if I switch tuners or channels, it comes back. The other day, it recorded a program where the audio was completely gone. I've had the unit for about 3 months now and just started having these issues. Can anyone tell me if there is a fix for this? Thanks so much.


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## MustHaveTivo

Yep. Frozen video with continuing audio on all channels, and on saved recordings.

This just happened with it recording SD on one channel and HD on another (HBO). After rebooting, the partial SD recording is available in Now Playing, but the HD recording is not. In To-Do list, it reports "this program was not recorded because the power was lost or the TiVo HD DVR was unplugged." There's no sign of power loss in nearby components. I notice a couple separate reports of this message, without report of video freeze:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=384731

Spouse reports the TiVo was paused, and asked to change channels on the other tuner when this happened. Also says it was about 10 min past the top of the hour, when it would have been appropriate to change the channel for the scheduled HD recording.

This is a 2.5 month old THD ordered from tivo.com and upgraded to 1TB drive. No appreciable problems with it up until this.


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## moldymac

I have the same problem, probably once a week. It seems to work after a restart, but does keep coming back


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## ciucca

Just happened to me last night. I don't have my HD hooked up to HDMI or watch the HD stations. It was tuned to local FOX station SD version and SD HBO. This morning my kids turned on the TV and the picture was frozen with the audio still going. A reboot fixed it for now.

Let's see pixelation and now this  I hope the new software tivoPony is promising fixes bugs without any new features. Where is that software update anyway?!


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## gmark

Who's "tivoPony"? The Tivo corporate guy? Where can I find information about this upgrade? 

As a related issue, how many time has the SW been updated on these new HD Tivos? Have there been any updates? Are the software images common to all Tivos?

thx.

Mark


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## substance12

this problem just happened to me as well. My THD is about a month old. The only thing I can think of that has changed is the use of pytivo, though I don't see how that causes this issue. I have not upgraded my hdd either. when I switch tuners, it works... but when I go back, it's still frozen. when I play recorded shows, the audio plays but the picture is frozen.


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## wackymann

substance12 said:


> this problem just happened to me as well. My THD is about a month old. The only thing I can think of that has changed is the use of pytivo, though I don't see how that causes this issue. I have not upgraded my hdd either. when I switch tuners, it works... but when I go back, it's still frozen. when I play recorded shows, the audio plays but the picture is frozen.


This happened to my Tivo-HD as well. I thought it was dead. A restart fixed it.


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## dkahs23

Add my name to the list. But mine isn't fixed. A restart didn't do anything. I even did a delete and clear everything. And still nothing.


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## rickeyjay

I have been having this problem for a few weeks. Both live and recorded. Thought it was a Time Warner problem. Guess not.


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## bmel

I had the same thing happen again. Of interest it was only frozen on one tuner. The other tuner was recording a worked fine. Soft reset cleared the problem.


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## KraziJoe

This has happened to me, but it does not freeze, it just shutters like it's missing a frame or two and only happens when I am recording something.


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## bhotchki

It happens to me as well with TiVoHD. The recordings seem to be fine but I have only been able to check SD not HD programs. Resetting it seems to fix it for a week or two.


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## CharlesH

gmark said:


> Who's "tivoPony"? The Tivo corporate guy?


TiVoPony is a TiVo Product Marketing person who regularly participates in the TiVoCommunity forums.


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## hkancyr

I just got up and mine was frozen too. As I changed channels each channel was frozen too. I went to the menu and the frozen picture was in the background. Audio was not playing. This is on HD and SD. I was experiencing a lot of judder last night, I wonder if that was related. After a restart it was OK.


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## mdlong

Add me to the list of people having this problem.


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## ohwhathappened

add me

what the hell are they doing about this?
I am sick of restarting the damn thing over and over. My sound freezes sometimes too. I love tivo but paying and having this happen is irritating


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## lunen

Add me too, same symptoms as everyone else, 3 week old TiVoHD, the video freezes, when I switch channels the new channel freezes, when I play back recorded programs they freeze, audio keeps playing, rebooting the TiVo clears up the problem, for awhile.


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## rick4523

Add me to the list as well - 
Some times I am watching shows, then it freezes. I can't do anything, but reset the system. I can fast forward, and rewind, but when I go to hit play, it just freezes...

Weird...


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## jamesweber

TiVo HD been running less than 3 weeks... Picture Froze up and left me hanging. It was recording when it froze and seems to have continued recording even though the screen was frozen and audio was still going. Only thing I could do was restart the unit to correct this.

Will certainly be calling TiVo about this in the morning. Restarting the unit to correct this is not my idea of a fix, I have had my TiVo series 3 running for nearly a year and have never had any problems with it. Hopefully it's a software bug and this update some have reported corrects it. I would think it's more hardware related considering so few people seem to be having this problem.


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## Greg_R

I'm having the same problem (Fios, 2 S-cards) on my Tivo HD but no problems with my series 3 HD. It has happened 3 times and each time a reboot has alleviated the issue. Both units are stock.


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## HazelW

Just happened to me too. I could watch recorded HD OK, but the SD had the freezing problem with sound continuing. I did not try live TV since it was recording two things in HD at the time. A reboot fixed it.


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## wackymann

Is this still happening with the new software?


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## Fedhead

Got a 2 week old THD and just happened for the first time. I will follow this thread.


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## JimRI

HazelW said:


> Just happened to me too. I could watch recorded HD OK, but the SD had the freezing problem with sound continuing. I did not try live TV since it was recording two things in HD at the time. A reboot fixed it.


This has happened to me 2 or 3 times on both of my TiVo HDs (not simultaneously) in the 2 months that I've owned them.


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## *hoosierdaddy*

I have issue since December.

It is *worse* with 9.3 software.


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## HazelW

A few days before it happened I noticed that many HD shows seemed to be dropping frames and had a jerky motion. Not really unwatchable, but noticable. Perhaps the systems gets bogged down somehow and finally can't display video. but funny that it happened only on SD programs for me.


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## genehoman

Happening here too.

NBC Must See Thursday night new episodes and I'm frozen.

Weird thing though... I can rewind and fastfoward through the recording and see that the recording is happening (so I am just leaving it for the next two hours before I reset in hopes that it is actually still recording the shows but won't play them back for now)

Both tuners, HD and SD channels and all Now Playing content plays for a few seconds. The auto continues for a few seconds longer and then everything is frozen.

Moving over to my old Series 2 on the small TV just get to my Thursday night fix.


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## GadgetGav

This has been happening to me too recently.
I get the freeze frame when switching channels but the audio continues but FF and REW shows the whole thing there.
I also get the flick-book, stuttering effect too...

I'm wondering if it's over heating related or something going bad on the hard disk...

Anyone got any ideas?


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## kenrippy

happened to me on a 2month old tivoHD, first time last night.

i _think_ it was right after turning on HD picture viewing 2.0 & installing the lastest java in tivo desktop 2.6.1. i could be wrong on which order it happened though.


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## bloftus

Yup. another one here. a hard reboot seemed to fix it for now. what a bummer.


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## madferret

Count me in! This issue just started occurring on my Tivo HD.

I restarted the machine, and it seems to have fixed the issue for now.

For me, it was NOT on a HD recording... just a regular SD.

I hope they fix this! Seems to be a software bug.


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## BenW

Add me to the list. Seems to happen on recorded HD content. video pauses. no audio. For a second or so, then both pick back up.
Seems to have started happening since 9.3.


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## steve614

I experienced a similar occurence on my TivoHD yesterday.
I was using MRV to watch some stuff from my S2.
At one point, I went to Live TV and all of my analog channels would come up frozen. The audio would play for ~ 3 secs and then stop.
Everything else (digital channels, recorded stuff) still played fine.

Fixed with a reboot, of course.


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## ZildjianB

Add me to the list. We never experienced this before this weekend and have now seen it two times and counting...


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## larrymc

Add another one. After several months I just had this happen for the first time on my HD Tivo. SD show was recorded, but on playback I get still frames and couple of seconds of sound. It's all recorded because FF and REW shows it, but it won't play at normal speed. Software is 9.3a-01-2-652. Haven't called Tivo support yet. Anybody have any idea what's going on?


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## larrymc

Very interesting - I saw some comments that resetting the Tivo might fix this, so I did a poweroff reset. The recorded show that froze before now plays fine. Hopefully the problem won't return for a while, but that doesn't seem to be others' experience. I want 9.2 back!!!


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## steinercat

Another member of the THD picture freezes club.

Curiously, as I am moving out of state tomorrow, I cancelled by Cox subscription, and unplugged my DVR Expander. With nothing better to do, I decided to watch some of the recorded HD shows still left in the THD....no freezing at all. So maybe not HDMI handshake after all.

9.3a as well.


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## deaklet

Sign me up. It's one list I wish I wasn't on. 

Finally got 2 M-cards installed in my 2 THDs last week. All worked just fine, though I don't know what SW version I had last week. 

I've had a couple of incidences of video freeze, but a quick channel change or something would fix it. 

Tonight, we had live video freeze on all our premium channels (HBO only). Network TV and basic cable was fine, but all 6 HBO channels gave audio with still frame video. Soft reboot seems to have resolved the issue for now, but it ain't cool.


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## Breadfan

I think this happened to me for the first time tonight on my TiVo HD. I had just finished watching a recorded HD program and I switched it to the news and the picture played for about a second then froze. The audio continued for a bit. So I switched it to another channel and the same thing happened. It happened on SD and HD channels. Every one.
Recorded shows played fine.
I restarted the TiVo and it fixed it for now.


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## Mordred

This happened on a SD show my wife and I were watching. This morning it played fine, we stopped it and resumed after work and it would instantly freeze but the audio kept going. Interestingly, we can fast forward and see the pictures update.

Got the TiVo HD in November, this is the first time we've seen this. 9.3 got DL'd sometime in the past 7 days.


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## TiVoter123

saw it for the first time after getting 9.3...


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## PSXBatou

Mine doesn't freeze but the video stuttering has become worse since 9.3a was installed on my TiVoHD. When I called TiVo they basically pointed the finger at everything but themselves. I have a WD official tivo drive, and comcast, I had some video stutter before 9.3a but a quick switch of the tuner or channel would solve it. Now its worse and harder to fix when it shows its ugly mug. 

Yay for updates that fix things and break things even more. Very Microsoft'esq.


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## bigpatky

same problems as already described. i got the refurbished tivo hd in february. it started not long after we got it. it hasn't been too often, though. 9.3 didn't cause it to happen any more often. it's only happened once since we got 9.3 a week or two ago.


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## mbalgeman

We've had the same problem a couple times now. A couple time, we noticed it seem to get a little worse over a day or so. Little shutter here or there until at some point, the video stops on all recordings, HD and SD, but it continues to record just fine.

1 time, it seemed to crash and burn almost instantly. This particular time, we had extended an HD recording for a half hour while the other tuner was recording the same HD channel for that half hour. (Cold Case padded for a half hour (7 to 8:30) Dexter padded as well (8 to 9:30)) That seemed to take it down hard, but it could just be an unrelated event...


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## crunch3k

Just received the 9.3a(etc) update on my THD Monday night and the results...

-video stutter (resolves when you change the channel)
-frozen video on all channels/saved recordings (cold boot to get it working again)

...never saw any of this in the 4 months on 9.2 :/


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## Breadfan

Oh, I am also having the video stutter problem when changing channels.
These problems started with the 9.3a update. I never saw them before the update (which happened sometime last week).
I have only had my TiVo HD since January 2008 and I don't have any external drives or anything like that connected to it.


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## tootal2

crunch3k said:


> Just received the 9.3a(etc) update on my THD Monday night and the results...
> 
> -video stutter (resolves when you change the channel)
> -frozen video on all channels/saved recordings (cold boot to get it working again)
> 
> ...never saw any of this in the 4 months on 9.2 :/


Im having the same problem. it just started today. i got 9.3 on friday.


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## Langree

A reboot seems to clear the video freezing issue.


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## MANOWAR©

Langree said:


> A reboot seems to clear the video freezing issue.


I just had it happen to me. Does it clear it permanently or just until the cause occurs again? Mine is only a month and a half old but if this continues I will take it back and go back to the Comcast box with my old S2.


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## Langree

MANOWAR©;6213144 said:


> I just had it happen to me. Does it clear it permanently or just until the cause occurs again? Mine is only a month and a half old but if this continues I will take it back and go back to the Comcast box with my old S2.


Mine hasn't reoccured since I reboot about 10 days ago.


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## MANOWAR©

Langree said:


> Mine hasn't reoccured since I reboot about 10 days ago.


Cool, I guess I'll wait it out. Thanks for the quick reply.


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## adx

My box just started to do this last night. It only happens to me on SD channels though. I never have a problem with HD. I have FiOS with 2 Cable Cards installed.


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## steinercat

man...I wish TiVo would at least throw us a bone and confirm reported bugs. So we know they're working on a fix.


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## bern43

Same issue with mine. Never did it until the 9.3 update. A cold re-boot seemd to fix it but that was only last night. We'll see.


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## um1990

- We got the 9.3a update last week, and I thought things were fine, although we still get the stuttering video occasionally (pause or rewind a little usually fixes it)...
- Today though, we had our first occurrence of Frozen Video, both recorded & live... Had to reboot to resolve (resolved so far)...
- Have not seen the GSOD we occasionally saw on 9.2a ; I did hook our OTA antenna back up recently - I could take it off, but my guess it's not an issue since others are reporting the frozen video
-TiVo HD, WD10EACS, TW Basic, SA M-card (seems fine so far)


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## ROB27

This morning I had the frozen video as well. I noticed that the 480i channels were frozen but the 1080i continued ok. Twice I rebooted the unit and It happend again. same 480i frozen and 1080i ok. Seem to be if I switched channels quickly Using multi something- single cable card.


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## esb1981

Add me to the list. This has never happened in the 4 months since I got the Tivo HD, but this morning the video has frozen up on live TV, regardless of channel and tuner. I got 9.3a about a week ago. Seems like this is quite an epidemic. Hopefully a reboot will permanently fix this, but I'm not hopeful. I did upgrade my hard drive about a month ago, so hopefully it's not a bad drive. Sounds like that isn't the case based on all the people that are having this.


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## larrymc

Rebooting only fixed it for a day or so, then it came back again. I believe it may have only happened on SD, not HD, but I'm not positive. Tivo support suggested I change Component (RGB) cables (?!). I humored them and switched to HDMI and rebooted. Same problem occurred later.

Has anybody received any acknowledgement about this obvious 9.3a bug from Tivo?


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## TiVoter123

rebooted few days ago to fix it, got it again few nights later. interestingly seems like it still records everything ok. problem with this is i don't want to reboot until nothing (important) is recordings -- so renders tivo unusable most nights it happens!


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## doconeill

I've seen both issues on one of my THDs, and as far as I can tell only on HD content so far. Prior to 9.3, I've only had the "film effect" HD issue when viewing 720p content that was always cleared by a reboot.

The stuttering issue is different that before. IT's almost as if the frames aren't being played in the right order - it seems like the video is jumping back and forth. That's happened twice, and recovered with a simple pause-play. The buffer seemed to be OK - it was only on the live playback until I paused it. Rewinding and playing the same segment was fine. Audio also seemed affected.

In both cases, it was with the inactive tuner being on an HD channel that I switched to. The other tuner was fine (don't recall in either case whether it was on HD or SD content).

Once so far I've had the video freeze issue. The active tuner seemed to be having some issue similar to the video stutter, but pause-play wasn't helping. I switched to the other tuner, and the video was mostly frozen, moving somewhat in slow motion with serious artifacting. A reboot cleared it. IT was very similar to the problems a lot of people had with the second tuner on the HDVR2s. Next time I'll try and get some diagnostic info, but it has not reoccurred since.

The unit is THD with a Seagate DB35 installed.

My stock THD unit, which is not hooked up to an HD set and thus does not have the HD stations in the CIR list, has had no problems at all.


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## gregly

larrymc said:


> Rebooting only fixed it for a day or so, then it came back again. I believe it may have only happened on SD, not HD, but I'm not positive. Tivo support suggested I change Component (RGB) cables (?!). I humored them and switched to HDMI and rebooted. Same problem occurred later.
> 
> Has anybody received any acknowledgement about this obvious 9.3a bug from Tivo?


It existed before 9.3a -- the only time I had the freeze occur was running 9.2a. The most plausible explanation I've seen is that it has something to do with CableCARD pairing, but a few folks have said it occurred on their systems that aren't using CableCARDs.

It can't possibly be HDMI-related, as I've used component cables the whole time (we still have an SD television for now). Somebody suggested it's a hard drive problem; if that's the case Tivo has a _huge_ manufacturing problem on its hands as it seems an awful lot of people are running into this problem (and in my case our HD Tivo was literally two weeks old when it occurred).

I haven't called tech support because I fully expect them to say the same thing I've read over and over in these threads: either "it's the HDMI cable's fault," "try rebooting" (because, you know, I fully expect to have to reboot a consumer appliance periodically), or "it's a known problem and we have no ETA for a fix."


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## Langree

gregly said:


> "try rebooting" (because, you know, I fully expect to have to reboot a consumer appliance periodically),


Maybe it's just my tech background, but this is the first thing I do, and not just with my THD. It is a legitimate step in troubleshooting devices like these.

In my case since doing so, the video freeze has not returned.

The stuttering is more problematic to figure out but a tuner switch or channel change will clear it up for me.


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## gregly

Langree said:


> Maybe it's just my tech background, but this is the first thing I do, and not just with my THD. It is a legitimate step in troubleshooting devices like these.
> 
> In my case since doing so, the video freeze has not returned.
> 
> The stuttering is more problematic to figure out but a tuner switch or channel change will clear it up for me.


Oh, for troubleshooting, certainly. I rebooted and it resolved the problem as well. (Switching tuners or channels, however, did not.) But rebooting every time something screws up isn't a long-term solution -- that's what I was trying to get at. Too often we get tech support folks telling us to reboot our Tivos, cable modems, routers, et cetera, to fix issues, and then the issues go away, and they mark a little "closed" on a trouble ticket and forget about the issue. I think this is the main problem.

I work in embedded software development, and as far as I am concerned, I don't care whether the software is meant for the consumer market or the industrial market -- a showstopper bug of this magnitude should have _hordes_ of resources thrown at it, isolated, and repaired as soon as possible. My DVD player does not crash, the software in my A/V receiver does not crash, my microwave does not crash, and neither should a Tivo. If there are truly bad sectors on the hard drive to blame, the Tivo should be reading SMART data and presenting the user with a "Hey, this unit's hard drive seems to be generating errors, you should contact Tecnical Support." If there's a problem with the codec chip or SmartCARD reader, there should be _some_ sort of status registers on either peripheral that can be polled to indicate incorrect operation.

Bottom line is: if hardware is failing catastrophically, the Tivo should handle failure modes more gracefully. If software is failing catastrophically, Tivo should be apologizing like hell and working their butts off to fix it, whether the bug happens to somebody once or a hundred times.


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## MANOWAR©

Reboot seems to be holding on mine. I called my brother and he said there have been bad sun spots lately which may be affecting the feed from the satellites to the service providers. That would be consistent with it happening on some channels and not others, on OTA and catv but not why a reboots fixes it for some people. I think it may be seeing a crappy signal and the system locks that setting in as true. Kind of like how a web page that is down won't always come back even if the page is back until you clear your cache. I'm just guessing here. Funny thing is my worst channel was SciFi HD but the non HD came in fine. (2 different feeds I know) but my brother was having it on his OTA SD channel without a TiVo on his TV. There may be more than one thing causing more than one problem for all of us. It sure is frustrating.


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## PHeadland

We saw this a couple of days ago. Rebooted and the problem has not returned so far.


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## MANOWAR©

Happened again today. This time it froze up, rebooted and said I had disconnected my WD external HDD.  Followed the instructions and it rebooted to normal. Is everyone who is experiencing this using an external HDD as well?


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## Hokeysmoke

This has been happening about once per week ever since we got our TiVo HD 6 weeks ago. You can see a precursor to the hard freeze when video starts dropping frames. A reboot seems to clear it up. The Series 2 it replaced has never had a single problem, and was running without rebooting for at least 6 months at a time.


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## chadism

Same here. Freezing 2-3 times a week on average. Getting frustrated with this unreliability.


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## knownzero

Another thread dedicated to this issue since the 9.3 update.

Same problems as everyone else, having to reboot at least once a day, had to reboot 3x today.


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## Mase

Anyone know if what, if anything TiVo is doing to solve this problem? Like most, this began only after the 9.3 'upgrade'.


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## crazybox

UGGGHH.... it seemed to just start today. The audio seems to be ok but the video definitely freezes.


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## esb1981

This happened to me again last night, for the second time in two days. The picture freezes on both tuners after changing the channel - the audio might play for another couple seconds, then it stops too, or sometimes the audio is fine.

So I called Tivo and reported the problem and the CSR had me do a hard reboot and pop out the cablecards before powering up. It's been okay since, but this is not even 24 hours later. The CSR was kind of cryptic, but when I asked him if other people have been reporting this he said something to the effect of "I am starting to see a pattern."

My recommendation is everyone having this get on the line with Tivo so they know for sure how rampant the problem is and get a fix in the works. This is definitely a show-stopper in my mind - if I'm in the middle of recording a bunch of shows, I don't want to have to restart and lose the recordings or have the Tivo useless for hours at a time!


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## mamalenf

I'm having this problem also. Mostly on recorded HD programs, but sometimes during "real time" watching:

Software version: 9.3a
HD DVR serial number: -8035-

An HD program recorded on a Season Pass Sunday night would freeze (audio and video) seconds into it. Fast Forwarding and jumping to the end would result in it playing, but not from the beginning. 

When I check the "To Do" list, it reported that my program for Sunday night had not been recorded because someone changed the Season Pass blah blah blah. However, the program did actually record and the Season Pass had not been changed.

Rebooting will usually fix the problem. This HD DVR is three weeks old and this is the second time I've seen video and audio freezing on recorded programs.

My cable provider is Cox Communications. We have two cable cards installed, and am using component output to my HD TV through a Home Theater amp.


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## ajny

My new Tivo (less than a week old) started showing the same problem today. Reboot did not help. It worked for half a minue after reboot, then again started to freeze and would not pay any video (recorderded or live). BTW- got comcast to install cablecard today. The cablecard got installed, but they are not able to add the complete channels to my account, so I can only watch the basic HD channels (CBS/NBC/ABC/Fox/WB/PBS etc) which I could watch without the cablecard anyway...Comcast says they have opened a ticket and will resove this in 24 hrs. I think the CSR was 'politely' telling me wait till tomorrow, then I will be some other CSR's problem...


----------



## GlobalOpps

Just started a week ago- not sure when we got 9.3a but probably about that time. Video and audio both freeze, on live and recorded both, SD and HD. If something is being recorded, the recording continues and is fine after reboot. Everything is normal after reboot.

Have also noted an increase in pixelization on certain channels and stuttering on all. Stuttering is fixed by pausing and backing up a frame.


----------



## DUSlider

My TivoHD has been doing something like this.... Though a little different.

The picture freezes alltogether and there is no audio. If I hit play the buffer still works. I can hit rewind and fastforward to get it working again, but then it freezes again with no audio after a few seconds. If I wait I can skip to the end of the buffer (Live tv) and it will work for a while and then freeze the video again with no audio. It is almost like I am pausing it, but I'm not.

Also, if I change tuners, and change back it fixes it for awhile it seems, but will happen again eventually. I tried a hard reset, but it comes back after awhile...

Software version is 9.3a-01-2-652.

I will say my TivoHD seems more responsive after one of these software updates... But this freezing is getting nutz...

I have upgraded the internal drive to one of the WD 1TB green drives... It was working great until this apparent "software update."

Wish they would fix this...


----------



## OvrrDrive

My 2 cents...

I got this for the first time last night too. It seems if I fast forwarded or rewound for a few seconds it would wake up and play normally. I did a software reboot as I went to bed. Hopefully this is an isolated incident but I doubt it. I'll update ths thread if it happens again.


----------



## rspad53

Hey,
DUSlider symptoms sound like mine.

I have had my tivohd since jan. 1. after an initial cable card issue it has worked fine until about the past 2 weeks. Yes no problems for almost 3 months.

My picture will totally freeze and then sound goes out. i also get some picture jitter sometimes when it is working.
A power off/on will *usually but not always* correct the problem or sometimes i come back later and it is working. Changing channels does not help as they freeze right away also. The tivo is not recording at the time of the freeze ups or jitters.

I removed and reinstalled the cablevision cablecards many times (but never re ran guided setup). but still get the freeze ups.
Now i noticed, based on the amount of stuff i have recorded, hd and sd. it adds up to close the maximum.
Could an almost full drive cause this?

Tivo told me to replace my cablecards. i made an appointment for 5/10.

i just added a wd dvr expansion drive, so i have plenty of room for now.
It has been ok since yesterday, oh wow.


----------



## lastdeadcat

My TiVo HD just did this also. Turned on the TV this morning to watch the news I had started recording. It was all pixels, freezing, audio problems and partial recordings. I went to watch live TV and it was the same on most all channels. I went to straight TV thinking it might be the cable acting up, but everything was fine.

I rebooted the TiVo HD and it started working fine, except for everything I had recorded yesterday and this morning. They were all partial recordings of what I saw this morning.

I've had this box since Dec. 1. Recently the software was updated to 9.3a. This was the first reboot since the update. It never did this with the old software.

I have basic analog cable with no CableCARDs yet. Cable is going all digital in August so I think I will wait until then to get them. HDMI to the TV and optical to the AV receiver.


----------



## DUSlider

rspad53 said:


> Now i noticed, based on the amount of stuff i have recorded, hd and sd. it adds up to close the maximum.
> Could an almost full drive cause this?


Hmm. Interesting. I cleared out a lot of old stuff that was just sitting there and after a power cycle I haven't had any issues. There were MANY eps just sitting in the recently deleted folder. I think Tivo needs to change some settings to delete these faster...

I'll have to keep tabs on this and note how much space is left if I start having issues again.

p.s. Is there an easy way to see free space without adding all of the eps up?


----------



## hmm52

TiVoPlayList


----------



## dbgordon

rspad53 said:


> I removed and reinstalled the cablevision cablecards many times (but never re ran guided setup). but still get the freeze ups.
> Now i noticed, based on the amount of stuff i have recorded, hd and sd. it adds up to close the maximum.
> Could an almost full drive cause this?


Hmm. Mine started freezing the day after I added a new external 1TB drive, so I'm pretty sure that it isn't about a full drive. Coincidentally, I got the 9.3 upgrade the day after I added the new drive as well.

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet so I'll throw my theory out there for consideration:

It seems that most of the freezing has "output" as the common theme. I haven't heard too many people say that recordings are getting messed up (unless I'm just subconsciously ignoring those since it's not what mine's doing). I have my HD Tivo set to "fixed 1080i" for output so that it is upscaling SD, 720, etc. That's got to be adding more processing to the output and is a "new" ability (ie. code) since the non Series 3's.

I'd be interested to hear what others who are seeing this have their output set to along with what content resolutions they are watching when it triggers, to see if there are any trends.

I've only seen this once so far and I rebooted to clear it. No time to troubleshoot. Had a 2 year old who needed to get her Elmo fix. Next time it shows I'll try switching to a Hybrid output mode, or something that might require less processing to show the pic, and start trying to feel it out.


----------



## OvrrDrive

Fixed 1080i here as well...

Unfortunately I don't have any other info as to the shows. I have only had the problem one time and a rebootfixed it since then. 

I have a My DVD Expander too and it's probably full, and its running on the cable that came with it. It's been smooth sailing since the reboot.


----------



## Primate

This happened to me last night. 
Video froze after like a second; sound continued for 5 or 6 seconds. 
I could fast forward and rewind. I could go to live TV and select other shows but they all responded the same way.
It was recording something at the time so I waited until the recording was almost done and rebooted because I wanted to watch TV and I knew it was going to record something the next hour. 
My result was a couple minutes off the end of that recording and a couple minutes off the beginning of the next. 
This shouldn't need to happen in the first place but since it does and it requires a restart; Tivo's take entirely too long to come up

This all happened a couple weeks ago as well.


----------



## DUSlider

Ok, it started freezing again. Video would freeze, then audio would stop 5-6 seconds later. FFD'ing, RWD'ing, changing tuners would not help. I went through and manually deleted all stuff that was sitting in the recently deleted folder. I also changed the video conversion to native so that my TV would handle all of the conversion.

None of this helped. I restarted the Tivo (Ugh, this takes forever) and things are back to normal, so we'll see what happens from here...


----------



## rickmeoff

has ANYBODY gotten a confirmation from tivo that this is being worked on?

anybody at all............?


----------



## rainwater

DUSlider said:


> Hmm. Interesting. I cleared out a lot of old stuff that was just sitting there and after a power cycle I haven't had any issues. There were MANY eps just sitting in the recently deleted folder. I think Tivo needs to change some settings to delete these faster...
> 
> I'll have to keep tabs on this and note how much space is left if I start having issues again.
> 
> p.s. Is there an easy way to see free space without adding all of the eps up?


I doubt it is as simple as a "full drive". Seeing as most people have suggestions turned on, the drive will be full about 99% of the time anyways.


----------



## dshinnick

I'm having the same problems. Video freezes, audio continues for a few seconds, then it stops. System remains functional but no shows play. After reboot system is normal. Software 9.3a-01-2-652.


Now I gotta show my wife how to reboot the Tivo in case it happens when I'm not home.

Tivo, you listening?

dave


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## Dancar

Just started seeing this the other day... Picture freezes, audio continues. The 8-second back button clears it. 

Last night we turned the TV back on after having it off for 20 minutes or so and found it frozen on an images about 15 minutes back, but the audio was still playing. I hit the 8-seconds back, then advance to bring it live, which worked.

I haven't rebooted it yet, but I will give it a try.

I don't think it's a "drive full" issue. We have more than a dozen shows in the "deleted" folder that the Tivo can deletes at will when more space is needed.


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## rickmeoff

after a while, the '8 second' button wont do it anymore.


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## raney

I called Tivo and opened a case Friday night (5/2/2008) because we have been fighting this problem for about 2 weeks. The Tech Support person offered to swap my unit for $49 because this was not a known issue.

Is anyone else calling and opening cases? How do we get someone to look at this problem?

My Tivo Series 3 is completely stock - no mods. I am using a Motorola M-Stream card and Comcast is my cable company. I thought the unit was getting too hot (43C) so I added some cooling but it did not really help.

Glad to hear this is just a software bug. I hope they can fix it soon.

Paul


----------



## actorguy1

The problem just started for me. Yesterday and today, very intermitent. Called Tivo opened a case #. So far the freezing has'nt affected recorded shows, only live tv. Oh and this is my first post on here. Sorry it has to be a complaint.


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## raney

What was the suggestion from Tivo when you opened your case?

We tried removing the cable card and using SD signal, same problem.

I have my Tivo set to 1080i and that appears to be a common setting with this problem.

Paul


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## jeffmikers

I've been running Tivos since the series 1 back in 2001. I've hardly had ANY problems through the life of my 3 previous Tivos... Until I bought this Tivo HD.

I agree with the other forum poster, that this is completely UNACCEPTABLE as a product manufacturer. My microwave doesn't require a periodic reboot to function, why should my Tivo?

I am calling to report the problem, even though I know in my heart that they are aware of it. How about some acknowledgement guys?!?!


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## DUSlider

Can we get everyone to call about this, maybe then they'll look into it...


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## rickmeoff

perhaps someone could send a link of this (and the other 'freeze' thread') to tivopony, so that they might appreciate the magnitude of the problem rather than simply thinking it has only happened to a few units?

i too have a case number opened. they suggested the cc be pulled for a few minutes, and the unit be rebooted. been-there-done-that........the problem returns after a couple days.


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## steinercat

rickmeoff said:


> perhaps someone could send a link of this (and the other 'freeze' thread') to tivopony, so that they might appreciate the magnitude of the problem rather than simply thinking it has only happened to a few units?
> 
> i too have a case number opened. they suggested the cc be pulled for a few minutes, and the unit be rebooted. been-there-done-that........the problem returns after a couple days.


 after a few days of no freezing. (after disconnecting and removing cable card & restarting) - the freeze is back!

TiVo needs to throw us a bone and acknoledge the problem. I'm assuming they are already working on a solution if as some posters have reported - that TiVO has suggested a replacement as a fix for this issue.


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## steve614

actorguy1 said:


> The problem just started for me. Yesterday and today, very intermitent. Called Tivo opened a case #. So far the freezing has'nt affected recorded shows, only live tv. Oh and this is my first post on here. Sorry it has to be a complaint.


Welcome to the forum! 


rickmeoff said:


> perhaps someone could send a link of this (and the other 'freeze' thread') to tivopony, so that they might appreciate the magnitude of the problem rather than simply thinking it has only happened to a few units?


Yeah, if we _ALL_ pm TiVoPony and TiVoStephen, that'll get their attention.
Let's fill up their inboxes!


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## wyld

add me to the list of freezers. i've had it happen about once a week since i got my TiVo HD three weeks ago. sometimes i can just hit the skip button and it will start to resume again, but after awhile it requires a full restart. i wish they'd fix this issue.

remember when woot had the refurbed TiVo HDs for 179.99? i bet the majority of their stock were from units returned for this very issue, and they had a good amount to sell.


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## rainwater

wyld said:


> remember when woot had the refurbed TiVo HDs for 179.99? i bet the majority of their stock were from units returned for this very issue, and they had a good amount to sell.


For most people this issue started with the release of 9.3 which is very new so that is very doubtful.


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## ITGuy72

Add me and my TiVo HD to the list. Been following this thread and hoping somebody from TiVo at least acknowledges the problem. Started happening when the new code was pushed down.


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## wyld

rainwater said:


> For most people this issue started with the release of 9.3 which is very new so that is very doubtful.


oh cool. if it's really just the firmware, then a little patience for a new upgrade should be ok. but if it's really just 9.3, why isn't everyone who upgraded having the same problem?


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## knownzero

wyld said:


> oh cool. if it's really just the firmware, then a little patience for a new upgrade should be ok. but if it's really just 9.3, why isn't everyone who upgraded having the same problem?


There's a number of variables that could be causing it and sometimes it's not terribly obvious which one (or ones) is/are the culprit. It could be the cable cards, output type, external drives, system storage, season passes, secondary program useage (like Wordsmith), transfers, channels on at the time it happens, the HDCP implementation...any number of things or it could be something completely obscure inside the box that were not seeing or they flipped a bit somewhere that only affects certain units with some combination of hardware and software that the software didn't like. Heck it could be a chip on the boards that are common to only a handful of units that the software didn't like.

The point is, I haven't seen anything so far that links all of us together that are having these problems, which is going to make this an interesting (and probably frustrating) problem for Tivo to solve.


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## johngaltil

I have two Tivo HD (yes we watch way too much tv) on the same tv both with the WD external 500 gig drives. One works perfectly, one has developed the freeze problem. Both are HDMI, connected to the same power center and both about 3 weeks old. BOth are runnng 9.3.

I called TIVO -- they "knew nothing about it" said to unplug the cable card (which did nothing) and offered to replace the machine. Not sure if its worth replacing since it took 4 TIVO HD boxes to get two that actually worked (at least for the first 2 1/2 weeks) and going through setup and the software update to get to the same place does not thrill me.


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## TiVoStephen

[EDIT: Please disregard the below request to send e-mails -- we already have sufficient examples. See later in this thread for updates, such as page 7.]

Folks,

We're sorry to hear about this issue, and we've been researching it. We need your help in understanding and solving the problem, however. If you regularly experience this issue, can you please follow these steps on the next freeze:

1. Press 7 7 7 Clear on your remote. (EDIT to clarify: Please do this as soon as possible after the problem first starts happening.)
2. Force two connections to the TiVo Service at your next opportunity.
3. Email me ([email protected]) with your TiVo Service Number from System Information.

Sorry again for the problem, and thanks in advance for your help in solving it.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## CallieBrady

Thanks Stephen!

I will do this tomorrow.


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## windracer

I just found my TiVoHD (two SA S-Cards, WD Expander attached, connected via HDMI to Sony LCD) in this state. Both tuners were "frozen." I could get a few seconds of audio and then it would freeze. Both tuners were marked as recording (two red lights on). 

I did the 777-Clear and am forcing two calls now. PM to TiVoStephen sent.

The instant replay trick doesn't work for me either.


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## JustAllie

windracer said:


> I just found my TiVoHD (two SA S-Cards, WD Expander attached, connected via HDMI to Sony LCD) in this state. Both tuners were "frozen." I could get a few seconds of audio and then it would freeze. Both tuners were marked as recording (two red lights on).
> 
> I did the 777-Clear and am forcing two calls now. PM to TiVoStephen sent.
> 
> The instant replay trick doesn't work for me either.


He asked for e-mails, not PMs.


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## windracer

Ooops, thanks! E-mail sent.


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## TiVoStephen

Thanks. (I hate the PM interface; e-mails are much easier for me to track and work with.)


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## jkbrowne

Awesome. It's a relief to hear that the issue is being worked on.  Just curious, what does the 7 7 7 clear code do? Does it trigger some logs to be transmitted back to the Tivo servers?

I certainly will do this next time I have the issue on either of my TivoHDs. They had been exhibiting the freeze/pause issue every 1-2 days but for the last 5 days have been working fine.


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## steinercat

email sent.

just to clarify.

_2. Force two connections to the TiVo Service at your next opportunity._

I'm assuming this means start 1 connection, finsih and then sart another connection right?

Or is there a way to establish 2 connections simultaneously.

Thanks!


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## CallieBrady

I just sent my info. My TV was frozen when I turned it on this morning so perfect timing.


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## imacericg

Just noticed this thread. I have to reboot everyday because of this problem.

My friend thinks its because of a software role-out that TWC did here in Charlotte that is making Tivo boxes freeze.

I will be sending emails everytime it happens!


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## windracer

steinercat said:


> I'm assuming this means start 1 connection, finsih and then sart another connection right?


Yep.


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## TiVoStephen

jkbrowne said:


> Just curious, what does the 7 7 7 clear code do? Does it trigger some logs to be transmitted back to the Tivo servers?


Ah, I probably should have talked about that. All it does is put an easy-to-find marker in the logs saying "the user pressed 7 7 7 Clear" and record some information about the state of your DVR at the time in the logs. It doesn't contact our servers (that's what the two connections are for).

And yes, force one connection, wait for it to succeed, then force another.

Why two connections? Because of how our logging works, not all logs are transmitted during a connection. Two connections makes sure all logs are received.

Thanks again for your help and sorry again for this issue.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## greg_burns

How is it different than the 9 1 1 Clear? Just curious...


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## TiVoStephen

It puts a different marker in the logs. (This one is marked 777, not 911  ... ) Plus it adds information about the state of video.

Folks, by the way: You can ignore any error sounds you hear when pressing 7 7 7 Clear.


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## raney

What screen do you need to be in when you press 7 7 7 clear? I did it while watching normal TV just to see what I should expect and all I get is the banner with 777 as the channel and then when I press clear, the banner goes away. Do I need to be in a special screen?

Sorry to be so dense.


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## knownzero

raney said:


> What screen do you need to be in when you press 7 7 7 clear? I did it while watching normal TV just to see what I should expect and all I get is the banner with 777 as the channel and then when I press clear, the banner goes away. Do I need to be in a special screen?
> 
> Sorry to be so dense.


You can be in any screen and do the 777 clear and it will work (there's no confirmation sound when you do this so don't fret, it does work).


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## crusin_x1

I guess I'll add my name to the list of ppl having issues with the freezing video, I've had my series 3 HD Tivo for about a week now and it's happened twice already. I'm glad to see I'm not alone, but hate to see it happening at all.


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## GuysInCT

Happens to us constantly. Really annoying. Sent logs to TiVo, as requested.


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## ilh

I just sent emailed in my report after 7-7-7-Clear and forcing connections. This never happened to me with 9.2a, and now with 9.3a it has happened three times.


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## johngaltil

I decided the common thread was that it started after some period of 
use for most people. I then asked what is different after a long time and came up with a large deleted recordings list (mine was about 100 items).
I hand deleted it down to 50 and have been doing that everyday since then and have not frozen since. This may be coincidence but this is the loingest I have gone since the problem started.

I would suggest you try it -- its not hard to do (open deleted folder -- hit clear then select - repeat many times)

This is only happenning on one of two tivo HD -- both with extender drives.

Will post if it locks again and do the 777 thing.


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## DrBunsen

I was getting freezes every one to two days until I cleared out my deleted items folder. I went about a week without a freeze, and it's been 3 days since that last one (so one freeze in the past 10 days or so). So clearing that folder did seem to do some good, but it wasn't a perfect fix for me.

Weird... part of me is hoping that the next freeze happens sooner than later so that I can do the "777 clear" thingie and possibly be part of the solution.


Bunsen


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## bitbanger

Same symptoms here--daily freezes since latest software update. Did have over 100 deleted items. Cleared out the folder and will see if this clears up or reduces the frequency of the freezes. Will send an logs and email when it happens again.


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## TiVoStephen

Folks, thanks to those of you who have sent me your TiVo Service Numbers. We have enough examples for our engineers to study, so I don't need any more e-mails for the moment. If we do need more, I'll post.

Sorry again to those of you who are experiencing this issue. We're studying it and we will keep you updated as to what we find.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## steinercat

TiVoStephen said:


> Folks, thanks to those of you who have sent me your TiVo Service Numbers. We have enough examples for our engineers to study, so I don't need any more e-mails for the moment. If we do need more, I'll post.
> 
> Sorry again to those of you who are experiencing this issue. We're studying it and we will keep you updated as to what we find.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephen


Thanks Stephen!...I'm sure many of us are relieved that the problems have been acknoledged and it is being worked on.

Appreciate your effort!


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## sfhub

DrBunsen said:


> I was getting freezes every one to two days until I cleared out my deleted items folder. I went about a week without a freeze, and it's been 3 days since that last one (so one freeze in the past 10 days or so). So clearing that folder did seem to do some good, but it wasn't a perfect fix for me.


I wonder if it is a free space allocation/recovery issue that gets worked around when you recover the free space manually? Even then there would probably be some other factor going on or more people would hit the problem.


----------



## billyjoebob99

sfhub said:


> I wonder if it is a free space allocation/recovery issue that gets worked around when you recover the free space manually? Even then there would probably be some other factor going on or more people would hit the problem.


The TiVo most likely is trying to write to completely free space (trying to save deleted items). By freeing up more completely free space you would be less likely to write to areas on the disk that are having issues.


----------



## morac

billyjoebob99 said:


> The TiVo most likely is trying to write to completely free space (trying to save deleted items). By freeing up more completely free space you would be less likely to write to areas on the disk that are having issues.


That would only really "fix" the problem if writing to the drive was the problem. If it was a "write" problem, then some recordings would be corrupted, but since recordings appear to be fine this isn't the case (*). If it was a "read" problem then rebooting wouldn't fix the problem so that's most likely not the case either. I'm just speculating, but the problem appears to be an issue with decoding/displaying video. Since, from what I've read it appears to mainly (solely?) affect TiVo HD models, it would appear to point to some kind of driver issue (or at least some kind of incompatibility between the HD and the 9.3a software).

(*) Note, it is likely that a number of people are experiencing drive problems (which normally manifest as macroblocking, freezing and/or rebooting), but drive issues occur any time a new software rolls out.


----------



## moyekj

morac said:


> (*) Note, it is likely that a number of people are experiencing drive problems (which normally manifest as macroblocking, freezing and/or rebooting), but drive issues occur any time a new software rolls out.


 There is a high correlation between new software releases and hard drive problems (not only this latest update which seems worses than normal, but previous updates as well). Anyone have any clue what software updates are doing to exacerbate hard drive problems? Could it be somehow related to low level driver (maybe even kernel level) software for the hard drive that may be getting updated as part of the software update?


----------



## chewy2314

I posted this in another thread on 05-07-2008:

Well, add me to the list. It has been about 2 months since I got the refurbed TivoHD (new 750Gb Samsung F1 drive installed) and about 1 1/2 weeks since Multistream card installed. First time experienced the locked video issue in SD recorded programs. HD recorded programs played fine. I had to reboot the box. Now I did have ANT as a source, but no antennae was installed, so I reran the guided setup for only cable source. I'll post if we get the problem again. Video setting: 1080i Hybrid. OS: 9.3a.

PS. I didn't have any issues running without CC's. (okay, issue with GSOD when I messed with output resolution)
---------------
Now yesterday (05/12/08), our THD box experienced the same issue. Freezing picture during SD playback and live TV. No issues with HD content (recorded or live).

Wished I'd seen this post before I rebooted it... so next time I'll do so (i'm guessing in around 6 days) and oh.. i've set my output to Native to see what happens.

One more thing... I also removed any video downloads to see if that helps. (DL.TV caused the endless blue light problem).


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## sfhub

morac said:


> I'm just speculating, but the problem appears to be an issue with decoding/displaying video.


I got the impression the issue was actually on the LiveTV side and just appeared to manifest itself on playback because that was the foreground task.

The reason I got this impression is because someone said the problem went away if you removed the coax cable, which disables LiveTV recording, However people have talked about different freezing problems and I might have gotten confused.


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## CallieBrady

I tried clearing deleted items, made no difference. the problem re-occurs consistently, whether we record more or not, always withing 24 hours or so.


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## JDNick

This just started for me a few days ago as well. I noticed that when I turned on my TV the current channel was completely buffered. It was almost like it hit pause on its own and then just kept buffering the whole time. Hitting FF gets me back to live TV after running through the whole buffer.


----------



## morac

moyekj said:


> There is a high correlation between new software releases and hard drive problems (not only this latest update which seems worses than normal, but previous updates as well). Anyone have any clue what software updates are doing to exacerbate hard drive problems? Could it be somehow related to low level driver (maybe even kernel level) software for the hard drive that may be getting updated as part of the software update?


Barring any software problems, normally when people have problems with software updates, their hard drive is already going bad. The update just pushes it over the edge.

Drives can fail in a number of ways. It can totally fail (usually the result of physical damage or a damaged boot sector - drive crash) or it can fail slowly. If it fails slowly, it usually doesn't do so uniformly so certain areas of the drive will fail before others.

If the data portion of the TiVo's drive (the area where the video is stored) starts to fail, it will manifest itself as macroblocking or other video/audio artifacts. If the area of the drive containing the software (or swap file space) starts to fail, all manner of problems can occur (usually the TiVo starts spontaneously rebooting).

The TiVo has two software partitions, but only one is active at a time. When a software release is pushed out, the new software is written to the inactive partition and then that partition is made active. If the drive has no problems reading/writing the current software partition, but has problems reading/writing the new software partition then then when the new software is written it could become corrupted, resulting in problems.

That's why software upgrades appear to "break" many TiVos, but in reality they were already broken before the software was released (they just didn't know it). The same thing can happen to an PC. That's one of the reasons why Microsoft recommends backing up all your data before installing the latest service packs for XP and Vista.

For the 9.3a software version, TiVoStephen (in another thread) has acknowledged that there is an issue, but since hardware problems and software problems can result in the same symptoms (in this case freezing) one can't really be sure which problem one is experiencing short of having the TiVo replaced and seeing if the problem still occurs. Since a number of people have reported having their TiVo replaced and having no problems with the new unit until it upgraded to 9.3a, that strongly suggests a software issue.

It obviously isn't affecting everyone (my S3 runs fine) so just because someone is having a problem, doesn't automatically mean it's a problem with the 9.3a software. It could be or the person simply might be having a drive failure. The main problem that I can see is that TiVo's phone support should have the user run tests (or look at logs) before either telling that person it's a problem with the software (telling them to wait) or a problem with the hardware (initiating a RMA).

On a somewhat related note, I have infrequently seen cases on my S3 where the liveTV buffer isn't where it should be. Once or twice playback was at the beginning of the buffer when it should have been at the end (I've seen this in older software as well) and one time it was paused midway through a suggestion recorded a few hours early. In the later case the ff and rewind buttons didn't work, but the skip to end did work so I wouldn't call that a "freeze".
it appears to have paused on it's own, but I can correct this by pressing the skip to end button


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## Go Bears

Add me to the list. My HD TiVo is little less than 3 months old and I bought an WD external drive. I thought it was the drive, but I guess not. Also thought it was the HDMI connection to my Onkyo 705, but tried it without the receiver and still experienced the problem.


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## Roderigo

morac said:


> For the 9.3a software version, TiVoStephen (in another thread) has acknowledged that there is an issue, but since hardware problems and software problems can result in the same symptoms (in this case freezing) one can't really be sure which problem one is experiencing short of having the TiVo replaced and seeing if the problem still occurs. Since a number of people have reported having their TiVo replaced and having no problems with the new unit until it upgraded to 9.3a, that strongly suggests a software issue.


While people are using the same word "freeze" to describe the problems I think it's fairly easy to tell the difference between the hardware issues and the software issue.

For the hardware issue, the box as a whole becomes unresponsive (freeze), and will frequently reboot. If you can see video, it will be choppy, or macroblocking. Some people report that removing the cable will bring the box back to regular speed (probably because without a video signal, it doesn't have to write as much to disk). I think most people are reporting this on the Series3 boxes.

For the software issue (the one I thought this thread was about, and what TiVoStephen was asking for feedback), TV video isn't playing properly (video freeze), but the box otherwise seems to be running just fine.. I don't think connecting/disconnecting the cable has any impact on this problem. I think most people are reporting this on the TiVoHD boxes.


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## Dssturbo1

my Tivo HD got the freezes too. stock Tivo HD, no cc, no ota, keep the deleted folders empty. Been using it to receive programs MRV from my S3 since the tv in that room went out. Both S3 and Tivo HD are 9.3a. Started the freezes last week on several recorded programs I was watching, constant freezing up easily every 2-3 minutes. could hit rewind or ff and it would play again for a short time, if using the rewind it would freeze again in the same spots. Since they were tranferred from the S3 I could check it and had no freezing. Then I was in the menu and the Tivo HD completely froze up no response at all and had to unplug/reboot. Since then no freezes for the past week thank goodness. hopefully tivo can use the forum members bug reports and get it fixed for good.


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## diskus

An update, since I have emptied my deleted programs folder and restarted I have not had any further freeze issues (about a week). I see that some have tried this and have not seen the same effect. It is an interesting problem, Im sure it will be identified and corrected by engineers.

for a further detail the freeze in picture i experienced could be resolved by simply pressing the 30 second advance, though when it was at its worst it would quickly return. I never required a restart though i did try it several times to alleviate the issue which didn't help. Only when I emptied my deleted programs which only had less than 20 programs did I see improvement which was total.

Interestingly I could also initiate a freeze by changing the input on my television (direct cable, second tivo, dvd etc back to tivo hd) or at least it seemed so. This made no sense initially to me. Though I now see it could have to do with hdmi, though Im no expert there fer sure. This only ocurred prior to emptying deleted programs, now this has no effect


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## hmm52

Roderigo said:


> While people are using the same word "freeze" to describe the problems I think it's fairly easy to tell the difference between the hardware issues and the software issue.
> 
> For the hardware issue, the box as a whole becomes unresponsive (freeze), and will frequently reboot. If you can see video, it will be choppy, or macroblocking. Some people report that removing the cable will bring the box back to regular speed (probably because without a video signal, it doesn't have to write as much to disk). I think most people are reporting this on the Series3 boxes.
> 
> For the software issue (the one I thought this thread was about, and what TiVoStephen was asking for feedback), TV video isn't playing properly (video freeze), but the box otherwise seems to be running just fine.. I don't think connecting/disconnecting the cable has any impact on this problem. I think most people are reporting this on the TiVoHD boxes.


Perhaps it's worth doing a poll to gauge what symptoms people are seeing with what setups. The issues are still not clear to me. What I've seen on S3 is closer to your description in 3rd paragraph, frozen video. I noticed it up to several times a week when the Tv was first turned on in evening; except that unit seemed to be in lockup - any command caused reboot, then all was well. Never tried disconnecting any cable. My wife and I have seen this happen just once or twice since 9.3 update. I have never seen the symptoms you described in 2nd paragraph.


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## griff55

I also am having problems. (live tv pausing (picture, not unit freezing, and not being able to hit the play button to respond)  They started when I was using the live tv button to hop between the 2 cablecards. Restarting did temporarily fix the problem. I have nothing in my deleted its folder and only a couple of recordings. 

I will try to recreate it tonight and send over the info to Tivo. 

I still have my Cable DVR on the sidelines waiting to jump back in. I will give it a week or so, then the unit goes back.


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## ilh

When my video freezes, 30-second skip or any forward/backward/pause does NOT fix it. Only a reboot fixes it.


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## MOINME

Have a 1 month old TiVo HD, using COMCAST in Northern New England and 2 single stream Cable Cards. Having the same picture freeze problem ever since about three days after hookup. Updated SW to V9.3 and now a soft reset seems to be the only fix. COMCAST has sent at least 2 "refresh" signals to no avail. After the last reset, I noticed an error message for Cable Card 2 and error code 161-10. So when the COMCAST tech showed up and started attaching his signal meter to every connection, the end result was an "upgrade" (i.e. replacement) of the 10+ yr old delivery cable. Guess I was having some major signal loss between the line outside and where it entered the home to the tune of about 7dB. We will be watching to see if "The Freeze" happens again. If so, they WILL be coming back and replacing one if not both Cable Cards with 2 new single stream or 1 new multistream. Figure I'm paying enough for it, I ought to be able to have it configured the way I want. 
Update: found the "freeze" to happen mostly during channel changes on live TV, also have noticed in previous threads that some folks asked about possible problems with connections...my TiVo HD is connected via HDMI direct to a 50" Panasonic Plasma on HDMI1, this has worked like a dream up until "The Freeze" started happening.


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## BobB

Ditto here, 9.3a with the MyDVR Expander and it's been doing this for about two weeks - which from reading this and related strings probably means since it upgraded to 9.3. It seems pretty clear that the presence or absence of the expansion drive is irrelevant.

I guess there's nothing we can do but sit tight and wait for a fix. At least they acknowledge the problem and are working on it.


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## steve614

ilh said:


> When my video freezes, 30-second skip or any forward/backward/pause does NOT fix it. Only a reboot fixes it.


Same here. 
I've been affected only 3 times (so far) and it was after I had been doing a bunch of MRV transfers from an S2 and PC.

My TivoHD is stock, OTA only, using composite output with digital audio to a reciever.


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## KraziJoe

johngaltil said:


> I decided the common thread was that it started after some period of
> use for most people. I then asked what is different after a long time and came up with a large deleted recordings list (mine was about 100 items).
> I hand deleted it down to 50 and have been doing that everyday since then and have not frozen since. This may be coincidence but this is the loingest I have gone since the problem started.
> 
> I would suggest you try it -- its not hard to do (open deleted folder -- hit clear then select - repeat many times)
> 
> This is only happenning on one of two tivo HD -- both with extender drives.
> 
> Will post if it locks again and do the 777 thing.


The last 2 times it happened to me, I just turned it on. One time It was 6AM and today after I got back from dinner, so it's not just from prolonged use.

Nevermind, I read your post wrong...


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## KraziJoe

One other thing to point out. While I was updating, it kicked out back to the LIVETV and it was playing live TV, then I changed the channel and it froze up again.


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## greg_burns

KraziJoe said:


> The last 2 times it happened to me, I just turned it on. One time It was 6AM and today after I got back from dinner, so it's not just from prolonged use.


Turned it on? 

It's a Tivo, it's always on.


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## KraziJoe

greg_burns said:


> Turned it on?
> 
> It's a Tivo, it's always on.


Ok, I started to use it. Unless downloading data was taxing it, it was not doing anything pressing, though it was on an HD channel.


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## greg_burns

KraziJoe said:


> Ok, I started to use it. Unless downloading data was taxing it, it was not doing anything pressing, though it was on an HD channel.


Don't forget, it is *always *recordings buffers for two channels all the time.


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## skiajl6297

Add me to the list. Started just after software update. Video freezes frequently requiring reboot. Super duper annoying to have to unplug the thing and wait for a 5 minute reboot. Stock tivoHD, HDMI out, native video, no DVR expander. Please fix this asap!


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## hmm52

But it definitely wasn't doing laundry, the dishes, or paying bills.

Sorry...Edit control function is disabled here. Probably the 9.3 update.


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## mamalenf

I've posted earlier that I am experiencing the freeze problem. Tonight, we were recording Boston Legal and Law and Order at 10:00 MST. At 10:15 when I attempted to rewind back to the beginning of Boston Legal, I got the video shakes and stutters for about 3 minutes into the show. When I switched to Law and Order and rewound back to the beginning, no shakes and stutters.

I rebooted Mr. Tivo, and the recorded Boston Legal still had the shakes and stutters for three minutes into the show.

My wife said why are we paying a monthly service for this crappy (my words, not hers) performance. I had to agree with her.

We own four TiVo's - two HD DVR and two dual channel. Tomorrow I will be cancelling our monthly service on two of them until they get this problem corrected.

Sign me a TiVo customer since 2002, but not very satisfied with the quality of their software programmers today.


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## KraziJoe

mamalenf said:


> I've posted earlier that I am experiencing the freeze problem. Tonight, we were recording Boston Legal and Law and Order at 10:00 MST. At 10:15 when I attempted to rewind back to the beginning of Boston Legal, I got the video shakes and stutters for about 3 minutes into the show. When I switched to Law and Order and rewound back to the beginning, no shakes and stutters.
> 
> *I rebooted Mr. Tivo, and the recorded Boston Legal still had the shakes and stutters for three minutes into the show.
> *
> My wife said why are we paying a monthly service for this crappy (my words, not hers) performance. I had to agree with her.
> 
> We own four TiVo's - two HD DVR and two dual channel. Tomorrow I will be cancelling our monthly service on two of them until they get this problem corrected.
> 
> Sign me a TiVo customer since 2002, but not very satisfied with the quality of their software programmers today.


Any chance this may have been a problem from the Network? You do realize that this "problem" you are describing has NOTHING to do with this thread and the problem that is going on here. Yours may have just been a network issue.


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## tvb6171

I'm having picture freeze problems too, but more annoying is the sound cuts in and out for about a sec every 10 minutes or so, maybe I'll return this back under my 30 day try out.


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## BobB

skiajl6297 said:


> Add me to the list. Started just after software update. Video freezes frequently requiring reboot. Super duper annoying to have to unplug the thing and wait for a 5 minute reboot. Stock tivoHD, HDMI out, native video, no DVR expander. Please fix this asap!


Don't unplug it, do a soft reboot (i.e., go to the menu and select Restart). That will put less start/stop wear on your hard drive.


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## skiajl6297

BobB said:


> Don't unplug it, do a soft reboot (i.e., go to the menu and select Restart). That will put less start/stop wear on your hard drive.


Never thought of that - thanks! Are there ever benefits to doing a hard reboot vs. a soft one? (I feel like I've read that sometimes a hard reboot is necessary for certain purposes.) And regardless, if they are going to write software that causes live and recorded programs to become unwatchable, at least have the decency to figure out a way to speed up the reboot process. My wife and I struggled to watch a taped episode while it was finishing taping other shows on the two tuners - so we had to stick out the freezing every 30 seconds for 40 minutes before restarting it when the taping ended. After the 5 minute restart no more problems. My workaround when stuck watching a show that is freezing is to hit the fast forward button and the play button consecutively pretty quickly to avoid losing much info. But thanks to the time it takes my reciever to pick the audio back up you drop a few seconds of dialogue. Just extremely frustrating. When I see video start to stutter even a bit or look sort of grainy, I immediately get ready for a reboot. Speedier menu navigation wasn't worth crippling basic functionality!


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## loganizzi

Okay, I hesitate to post this due to Murphy's Law, Occam's Razor or some other universe governing principle that will cause me to jinx myself, but perhaps if it helps someone then karma will cancel both sides out.

Shortly after the 9.3 update I started seeing the video freeze issue on my TiVoHD w/ MyDVR Expander. The issue occurred at least 3 times within 72 hrs and was only corrected by rebooting the TiVo. 

My unit is receiving both Cable (2 cards) and OTA inputs. I checked the signal strength in the diagnostics screen and saw that both Tuners had a signal strength in the 80 - 85 range. I should also note that I do have an video amp in line as well, and a splitter just before going into the TiVo. 

Just after the 3rd occurance of the TiVo freeze, I removed the splitter from my configuration bringing the signal strength up to the low 90's. I also checked the SATA connection to the MyDVR drive and noticed that it was loose (it seems to be a generally poor connection overall, bad cable?) so I reseated that as well. 

Since I performed these actions I have noticed a few things.

- I have not had a freeze since (about 1.5 - 2 weeks)
- Previously I had seen a lot of digital dropouts (row(s) of pixels missing) on various channels that now appear to be gone.
- had some audio quality issues on my NBC station (always during L&O Special Victims) where the sound would get "tinny" and digitized like it was being over compressed, also gone.

I know I run the risk of having to post again tomorrow saying that the problems are back but such is life. 

Hopefully some information in this post will help someone else.

Good Luck.


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## mamalenf

KraziJoe said:


> Any chance this may have been a problem from the Network? You do realize that this "problem" you are describing has NOTHING to do with this thread and the problem that is going on here. Yours may have just been a network issue.


Boston Legal was also recorded on another TiVo of mine without the shakes and stutters.


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## johngaltil

I had a vast improvement in freezes (none in several days ) keeping the deleted folder empty - Following is just posted if it gives the engineers an idea to chase. There appears to be some interaction between signal loss and setting off the freeze.

I had a freeze apparently triggered by my cable company losing the channel I was recording. I got about 1/2 the show with lots of noise then
the Tivo cancelled the recording when it lost the signal but it also did the freeze. I know it was the cable company because I could not play that channel (CBS) directly around the Tivos.


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## VB_nut

BobB said:


> Don't unplug it, do a soft reboot (i.e., go to the menu and select Restart). That will put less start/stop wear on your hard drive.


If you are using cablecards, this will reset the pairing information between the cablecards and you're cable co.

May be best to "Standby" and then drop power.

Tom


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## greg_burns

VB_nut said:


> If you are using cablecards, this will reset the pairing information between the cablecards and you're cable co.
> 
> May be best to "Standby" and then drop power.
> 
> Tom


A simple restart won't do that. You must be thinking of "Clear & delete everything" from the Restart or Reset System menu.


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## nicky612000

This started happening to me a few weeks ago. I am getting the same problems everyone describes. Change to channel, 2 seconds, freezes, but I can rewind and fast forward and the contents is there. Hard reset seems to fix it for a while. I called Tivo and opened a case number.

I am also getting sound cut out once every 10-15 seconds on certain channels. Last night watching the NBA game on ESPN it was doing it.

These are show stopper problems that Tivo needs to address.


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## criswell50

Add me to the list as well. I just started having the problem early this week. Rebooted, everything was fine for four days, then started again last night. Did another reboot, and everything looks fine right now. I'm hopeful that Tivo is figuring this one out quickly. It sure sounds like a software issue given the fact that so many of us started having the problem around the same time.


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## BobB

No freezeups in the past 48 hours, but I did get a new problem - the video started jittering, kind of like strobe action, while the audio played fine. Skipping back a few seconds cleared it up.

I really wish they'd test their software upgrades better. I never had these types of problems in six years of S2 ownership.


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## Phantom Gremlin

BobB said:


> I did get a new problem - the video started jittering, kind of like strobe action, while the audio played fine. Skipping back a few seconds cleared it up.


I had that problem, but only once. It was actually a lot of fun to watch. I was hoping that it was the program, so I recorded it. But unfortunately the recorded program was fine.


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## Breadfan

I had this happen to me a few weeks ago but a restart cleared it up. Tonight it happened again, after I had decided to set my output resolution to 1080i. Before that I was on Hybrid.
I'm in the process of the 777Clear, 2 connections bit now.

EDIT: I guess they don't need any more e-mails so I won't do that after all.


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## zvadim

I've been having this problem for at least a month now. Recorded & live video freezing up, both HD & SD. Rewinds sometimes prods it on, but eventually have to soft reset. That clears it up, but the problem comes back eventually. Using a 500gb Samsung drive internally.


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## CallieBrady

Interesting, we just started having the sound issues. It only happens through the home ent system though. If we use the audio on the TV only - no cut outs.


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## Hot Karl

I began experiencing the problem about two weeks ago, using two cable cards with Time Warner.

For me, Standard Def seems be much more likely to trigger the freeze.


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## TiVoStephen

Hi folks,

Thanks for your patience. Our engineers are still investigating, and have asked me to post for more information.

One important update: Please don't use the 7-7-7-Clear for anything other than a video freeze that fits the pattern described in this thread. Only TiVo HD units are experiencing this issue. If you have random freezes and jitters, or you have a Series3 unit, then you have a different issue and those should be posted in other threads.

Please do not use that 7-7-7-Clear sequence if your unit is entirely locked up -- only if the problem is frozen video but an otherwise responsive unit with normal working menus.

Below are some questions. Please post here in this thread in reply; don't e-mail individually since it just creates an extra step for me to then pass on the information to the engineers -- so it's faster for them to read it here. They are monitoring this thread.

1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?

2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?

3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?

Thanks again for your patience as we research this issue.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## cwise

TiVoStephen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?


I have never had it freeze while I am watching it. My TV usually stays on the HD channels (which do not freeze unless I am coming from a frozen channel). I only get the freeze when I switch to a SD channel or I try to play a recording from a SD channel.



> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?


I guess you are talking about the guide and the progress bar at the bottom. No they do not freeze. Only the actual picture is frozen. I can actually hit rewind and the video looks fine while rewinding, but when I stop to play I get audio for a little but picture freezes at exactly where I stop. So I wouldn't call it an actually freeze. Everything seems to work fine accept for the picture moving forward.



> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


I tried this from a channel that was frozen (my local news channel 9 on Comcast in Knoxville). I went to watch a recording of Lost (record from a HD channel) and Lost worked fine. Went back to live TV and it was still frozen. Pulled up other recordings and they worked fine. I had one recording that was recorded on a frozen channel today (it was in SD of course) and it was recorded frozen and unusable.

So I guess I will say if it is recorded on a channel that is not frozen it will work fine no matter what live TV is doing.

One thing I will add is this. Lets say I am watching ESPN HD and I go to a SD channel that is frozen, if I jump back to ESPN HD it will now be frozen. To fix it I have to move along the HD channels until I find one that is not frozen (it only takes 1 or 3 channels). Once I do all the HD channels work fine. Note this only happens if I come from a frozen SD channel.

So I think this is a SD problem for me since my HD works fine as long as I do not go to the SD channels. I don't think it is a cable company issue (with me) since it looks perfect when I rewind on the frozen channel.

Hope this helps. I am just glad most of main shows are off for 2 weeks and they are mostly in HD.

Edit: & yes if I restart the system everything seems to work find for a little bit.


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## thoku

TiVoStephen said:


> Below are some questions. Please post here in this thread in reply


1. I never actually see the freeze happening. It always seems to occur when the Tivo is not being used.

2. It varies. When the freeze is in effect, sometimes the background animation is fine, sometimes it is sluggish. It never fully freezes though.

3. (Per #1) I've never been watching live TV when the freeze kicks in. But in my case, both live TV and recorded shows are always affected at the same time. I've never seen a case where live TV is frozen yet recorded shows still play back fine.


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## windracer

thoku said:


> 1. I never actually see the freeze happening. It always seems to occur when the Tivo is not being used.


+1

I've only seen the freeze problem after turning on the TV ... I've never seen it actually _start_. Also, I want to say that both times it's occurred recently, both tuners were recording (red LEDs on). It doesn't seem to affect recordings in progress (but trying to play back previous recordings from the NPL shows the same problem). Background loopsets seem to be fine.

As another data point, I have the WD Expander attached.


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## jon01

my tivo doesnt freeze, just the video on the screen freezes. rebooting the tivo fixes this problem for me but it seems like it happens once a day. 

- Jon

EDIT* i have a tivoHD unit btw.


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## skiajl6297

I have witnessed the screen freeze while watching 20 minutes behind an hour long live show - using the recording not the live buffer. Every other time the freeze has happened while I was away from TiVo. 

The problem started with what appeared to be a stuttery quality to the video. I was in the midst of recording two programs (watching one of the two time shifted) and the first freeze occured. However, I was able to fast forward a second and hit play, and the video worked. It would then repeat, and I would hit fast forward and play, and again it worked. This must have happened 20 times during a 45 minute span, with each instance of the freeze happening closer to the last. Finally the shows finished recording and I restarted - and no more video problems that evening. 

During the usual freeze where it is frozen when I turn the tv on, I can fast forward and rewind, but when hitting play audio goes for a few seconds, and the picture freezes completely. Menus worked normally throughout, but all video is completely frozen. I didnt try playing other shows when the freeze occured.


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## desiboy

Had freeze issues over last 4-5 weeks. Reset always helps. Mean Time Between failure seems to be contracting unfortunately. Freezes on both occasions, when running prerecorded or time shifted. Have a MyDVR attached since Jan.

However, another issue that may be connected with 9.3a upgrade...

On a need to add a broadcast station to the list, I found just a single line entry 'Channel 0'. No scrolling would help. Intrigued, I forced a channel number (say 48), and there it was - the entire list. Adding the channel there didn't help the actual channel lineup. Forced new channel scan - unit went through the motions of a scan but sorry, same end result - single line Channel 0). Tuning for strength for channels on the list got me a message such as no channels available (strange just about when my channels on the list are recording....) To sum up...I cant add a channel ... a ticking issue since it can end up as no channels if the unit loses the 'original' list wherever it resides.

Methinks, the problem is with the software where some data tables are left destitute after upgrade. I suspect the channel data is stored and mirrored in three or more locations - first is actual channel scan data download, another where this is ported to populate the list we see, another where this is passed on to the unit main program to identify valid channels for record/guide. I think the link is broken between second and the rest - new scan does not port to what we see or check, and that output does not update the internal table. On second thoughts, perhaps I should be thankful, because my unit atleast works with current lineup!

Come on TiVo guys ... YOU are clever and can get this fixed...


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## sfhub

I know you guys are interested in TiVo HD feedback so I didn't send any logs, but my S3 just had some strange behavior.

It was paused at the end of a show for about 5 minutes and all of a sudden it started macroblocking, dividing the screen into roughly 3 vertical panels, each doing their own macroblocking.

The unit was otherwise functional and I could get to NPL, TiVo Menu, etc. (with no macroblocking)

I used LiveTV to tune see what the 2 tuners were buffering and discovered that one channel, TNTHD (encrypted channel so CC is involved) looked like it was frozen with some macroblocking, and the other tuner was on some SD channel that was fine.

I went back to NPL and played the same show and put in on pause in the same location. Video looked fine.

I then went to my second S3 to see if it could receive TNTHD. All I got was a black screen when I tried to tune TNTHD (otherwise TiVo was functional). I could tune other channels, just not TNTHD.

Still on my second S3, I then went to Menu->SystemInfo->Diagnostics and my S3 is hung on Please Wait. Background mpg is still running but the TiVo otherwise will not respond. I've seen this behavior before on S3s where they get hung on the diagnostic menu. I think it showed up in 9.1 and I thought it was fixed in 9.3 but it seems to be back. I'm wondering if that freeze (or attempts to fix that freeze) have anything to do with the TiVo HD frozen video problem.

Anyway, as I pull the plug to reboot my second S3, I switch back to my first S3, and notice the macroblocking has started again, again, while I was paused at the end of a show.

I tried entering the channel diagnostic screen (now on my first S3) and it worked. I notice TNTHD has 184299 RS uncorrected and 115419 RS corrected errors so that probably accounts for why I can't see it.

I post all these symptoms in case any of them might be related or might trigger some other problem. Maybe there was some change in how error conditions (mpg, cablecard, etc.) were handled and that is causing some freeze. People who don't see any errors on their system don't invoke the problem code, but people who do get the freezing. Just random theories. Maybe my problem is totally unrelated.

UPDATE: TNT-HD is now back and I'm not receiving any RS errors any more. Since TNT-HD has come back, I've also been unable to reproduce the macroblocking on paused playback of existing recording.


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## wilfried

I had this happened twice this week.

1. Never happened while watching live TV. Only pre-recorded show are frozen, while they are frozen Live TV still plays fine.
2. Did not notice the loopset, but will look next time.
3. I have it the other way, Live TV plays, Recorded shows won't.


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## jigsawhc

1 - I don't watch live tv so I don't know. When it happens for me it is when I try to watch a show I've recorded or that is in the process of being recorded. A few seconds in it will freeze. I can fast forward and rewind and those look ok, but when I hit play it freezes again. 

2. I've never noticed if the loopsets are frozen or not. When it happens again I'll try to remember to check. 

3. Once it happens for me on one show it happens for anything I try to watch in my Now Playing list.


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## windracer

Found my THD again in this state this evening so I did the 777-Clear. This was different though: switching tuners back and forth unfroze it. A little later (I had it playing in the background) it froze again, but swapping tuners unfroze it again.

That tuner swap trick hadn't worked before.


----------



## jkbrowne

Well, for me it's back, after almost two weeks of perfect TivoHD enjoyment. Came home today to a frozen TivoHD. <sigh>


----------



## RichB

I am experiencing freezes as well with a TiVoHD with FIOS.

After a reboot, they freeze in the same place. Interesting, it does not happen during the commercial. I am wondering if it has something to do with Dolby Digital.

Once it crashes the TiVo and rebooting. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Rich


----------



## diskus

Recent freezes,

can happen while watching live tv

switching to "now playing" or main screen reveals animations are working as normal

switching back to live tv gives a normal picture ( though several times it quicky froze again)

I have not been able to isolate a live recording freeze as of yet to check the exact point on the recording

in general any switch of screens or pressing forward reverse buttons alleviates the issue atleast temporarily


----------



## raney

Is everyone with the problem using HDMI? Does anyone have the problem with component inputs?


----------



## windracer

I'm using HDMI ... haven't tried switching to component.


----------



## johngaltil

It has never frozen while I was watching a recording -- I never watch live tv.

Since emptying the deleted folder to below 50 items (tivo with extender) I have had only 1 freeze and that was during a cable provider problem. May only be mine but the folder empty seems to really improve things.

The strange thing is my other Tivo never freezes and I just ignore it - they are exactly identical using the same cable cards etc.


----------



## rainwater

raney said:


> Is everyone with the problem using HDMI? Does anyone have the problem with component inputs?


It happens with component and HDMI.


----------



## RichB

Verizon came to fix it here in Tampa. They said he had seen a problem with the locals in HD that have too strong a signal.

He attenuated the signal down to max at 33DB and it appears to be working much better!!

You can check your signal strength using the cable-card setup menus.

- Rich


----------



## Chris8204

RichB said:


> Verizon came to fix it here in Tampa. They said he had seen a problem with the locals in HD that have too strong a signal.
> 
> He attenuated the signal down to max at 33DB and it appears to be working much better!!
> 
> You can check your signal strength using the cable-card setup menus.
> 
> - Rich


I doubt it's a signal strength issue. Too many people are having the problem. It's a software bug in version 9.3a and apparently a very hard bug to find.


----------



## thomb

raney said:


> Is everyone with the problem using HDMI? Does anyone have the problem with component inputs?


I've had my Tivo HD for 3 weeks. Originally was connected to the TV with an HDMI>DVI cable.

I had one picture freezing incident on day two that was corrected with a Tivo reboot. I also had ~10 HDMI errors in the first four days - fixed with a reboot of the TV. Then I got fed up and switched to component and have been error free for the last 2+ weeks.


----------



## DaveSt

HD TiVo, 9.3a, Comcast with 1 Moto mstream card, HDMI>DVI out, stock internal drive, WD 500GB DVR Expander.

Add me to the list of people having this problem. My unit has worked perfectly since new until now. I had on American Idol last night and the TiVo video froze (just the video). Changing channel got it going again for a few seconds, then it too froze. Happened on both SD and HD. I could rewind and play and I could navigate the menus, but I could not watch live TV at all. It was late and last thing I did was reboot it, haven't checked post-reboot yet. When I retired for the night it was recording 2 shows. Will be interesting to see what I got.


----------



## BobB

RichB said:


> Verizon came to fix it here in Tampa. They said he had seen a problem with the locals in HD that have too strong a signal.
> 
> He attenuated the signal down to max at 33DB and it appears to be working much better!!
> 
> You can check your signal strength using the cable-card setup menus.
> 
> - Rich


That doesn't quite make sense. I could understand signal strength affecting playout of live material, but the general problem here seems to be freezing up during playout of already recorded material, and it's fixable by restarting the TiVo. If it was a signal strength issue wouldn't the recorded program stay frozen regardless of the reboot?


----------



## steve614

rainwater said:


> It happens with component and HDMI.


And composite.


----------



## RichB

BobB said:


> That doesn't quite make sense. I could understand signal strength affecting playout of live material, but the general problem here seems to be freezing up during playout of already recorded material, and it's fixable by restarting the TiVo. If it was a signal strength issue wouldn't the recorded program stay frozen regardless of the reboot?


I have problems with both live and record. Once recorded, it had the problems at the same point. It is possible that the signal is improperly decoded when it is saved.

- Rich


----------



## RichB

Chris8204 said:


> I doubt it's a signal strength issue. Too many people are having the problem. It's a software bug in version 9.3a and apparently a very hard bug to find.


That's fine. So far so good. This has worked on two verizon sites so far.

- Rich


----------



## jkbrowne

RichB said:


> That's fine. So far so good. This has worked on two verizon sites so far.


This problem is so intermittent, I think it will be difficult for anyone to say it's been solved by anything yet. Some people have the issue every day, some every few days, and some every couple of weeks. I've gone a week and a-half myself between freezes.


----------



## RichB

jkbrowne said:


> This problem is so intermittent, I think it will be difficult for anyone to say it's been solved by anything yet. Some people have the issue every day, some every few days, and some every couple of weeks. I've gone a week and a-half myself between freezes.


It was not very intermittent for me.
It happened consistently.

- Rich


----------



## raney

1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?

A. Yes - the Video Freeze often happens while recording. If I wait until the show is recorded and reboot the Tivo, the show will play fine.

2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?

A. I will have to verify this. On my Tivo, all of the menus continue to function normally.

3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?

A. In almost all cases, once the freeze problem starts, it causes all viewing to freeze. We thought play back was going to work (because it worked for a while) but within 10 min., the play back was also frozen.


----------



## TheCowGod

TiVoStephen said:


> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?


I think it has always happened in the middle of recording a show, and it seems like it was usually an HD show. I'd turn on the TV and find it frozen in the middle of an HD show that it was recording for a season pass. After rebooting, the entire show plays back fine from Now Playing. The recorded show doesn't seem to be affected.



TiVoStephen said:


> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?


Once I noticed that the loopsets were frozen. Actually, I think by the time I had navigated through enough menus to reach the Reset option, the menu background had just gone entirely black. But that was just once. Usually the menu backgrounds seem to work fine when it's exhibiting the freezing problem.



TiVoStephen said:


> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


Every time I turn on the TV and find it frozen, it was displaying live TV (though as I said above, it seems that it's usually a show I was recording -- but maybe it's just that the only time it's on HD channels is when it's recording a show, because I never watch live TV myself). Anyway, when I turn on the TV and find it frozen in the Live TV buffer, then going into Now Playing and trying to play back previously recorded shows also results in the freezing issue. Nothing can be watched until a reboot is performed. I've never seen a case where I was able to play back recorded shows while live TV was frozen. Of course, after the first few times, I learned that it didn't work and stopped trying, so it's been a while since I did anything other than an immediate reboot.

Hope that helps.

Dan


----------



## tipk99

Add me to the list of folks with the freezing issue.

It happens to me both watching live TV or recorded programs, depending on the day. Just a minute ago we were watching a recorded show and we got the freezing issue but were able to get around it by fast forwarding or rewinding a few times. Then when the recorded show ended we switched to live TV and it was frozen. Tried 3 different channels and they were all frozen. Could fast forward or rewind, but every time we played again, it was frozen. Tried going back to play a recorded show and it played fine. Switched back to Live TV and it was still frozen. Did a soft reboot and live tv was fine.

I have been experiencing the freezing issue for a week or two and have only had the Tivo HD box for 3 or so weeks. I just thought it was annoying so wasn't really paying attention to when it was happening. But after reading this thread I'm paying more attention to when it happens. 

I've had Tivo for years and never had an issue... now the HD is driving me nuts.

Really looking forward to having a solution... both as a subscriber and stock owner!

Do you still want 777clears?

Thanks

Tom


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## jkbrowne

RichB said:


> It was not very intermittent for me. It happened consistently.


It happened consistently for me as well for many days, then all of a sudden it was fine for a-week and a half. If I had attenuated my signal a-week and a half ago, I would have thought I had fixed it after a-few days. But I didn't do anything at all and it just went away on its own. It's a difficult problem to pinpoint. Granted, with FIOS, there have been many reports of hot signals causing issues and I hope it did fix it for you.  However, most of the people having this issue do not have FIOS and some are not even using cablecards at all. Plus, if it was a signal strength issue, it would have also been an issue before the 9.3a update. I haven't read of anyone who was having this specific freezing problem before the 9.3a update. In fact, many people have received replacement TivoHD units that worked fine when they received them with 9.2, but immediately after they updated to 9.3a the issue was back. Same signal, same hardware, different software. Something with the 9.3a update is broken.


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## Mars Rocket

My TiVoHD has been freezing at least once per day for the past week or so, necessitating a reboot each time. I haven't read the entire thread so I don't know if this was mentioned or not, but it only seems to freeze on HD shows. I've never seen it freeze on SD content. It also doesn't freeze on *all* HD content, but on most it does.


----------



## hmm52

I'm also going to post experience with my S3 here as it's close to that of some HD owners and very close to what sfhub posted yesterday, but also different in a significant way. For background: The tag indicates production date 12/27/07. It was put into service at the same time as a 750gb Seagate eSATA drive in the beginning of February. Component video interconnects; output fixed at 1080i. TiVoPlayList has total recordings at 650gb; near nothing in recently deleted. Not located in enclosure. Though I have witnessed much tiling/pixelation throughout ownership, I make a point of not leaving either tuner on a channel prone to tiling when done with TV in evening. I haven't seen tiling on any local HDs in many weeks now. (Thanks Verizon)

Once or twice a week since the beginning, I've seen frozen video when first turning on the TV after long inactivity. I had the habit of then switching tuners which quickly caused a reboot, sometimes with GSOD. It seemed to happen less often after 9.3 update was received, until last weekend. Once I went to recordings instead of other tuner; all worked fine with that including the recording's playback.

I think I caught the process _in flagrante_ yesterday. I turned on the TV shortly before 5:00 pm. The SD channel was fine. I then switched tuners to a local HD which was frozen. Switching back and forth between tuners, changing channels on free tuner, going into normal menus and guide didn't affect the status. The initial time at the end of the progress bar for frozen channel was very close to, if not exactly the correct time - 4:57pm; with a 30 minute green buffer trailing it.

For much of the following 30 minutes, I played with advance and rewind speeds and observed the results matched to the progress bar and time. Throughout, the behavior remained exactly the same until 5:27pm when the channel unlocked from the 4:27-4:57 buffer:

The 30 minute buffer remained fixed at the 4:57 endpoint while the indicated time advanced correctly in actual time. The last 3 minutes of the buffer was the problem area; the first 27 minutes rewound and played back normally at any speed. It stayed this way until unlocking at 5:27pm. The 3 minute interval was very similar to what sfhub described, except there was no macroblocking of any kind; thus I doubt I would have seen any RS uncorrected errors had I checked diagnostics. It might have been too late anyway.

The 3 minute interval at the end of the buffer had equal height vertical bands that displayed content from different time points of those 3 minutes. One instant from top to bottom - a burger commercial, one for dogfood, a political ad - then switching places very rapid fire in A Clockwork Orange manner until end of buffer was reached wiith a frozen screen, 4:57pm. The interval displayed like this in all forward and reverse speeds except for one - normal play, where the audio and video were fine throughout. Since 5:27pm yesterday all has been OK and a reboot hasn't occurred or been initiated. And no freezes observed. I regret that I didn't check diagnostics.

All speculation from hardware and software proponents is welcome.

My guess is a panic attack.


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## spolebitski

I called last night about this. TiVo CSR said "Haven't heard of this issue". The resolution was to remove the cable cards, reinstall and restart the TiVo. I did mention that simply restarting the TiVo corrects the problem, however it keeps happening.


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## rickmeoff

the freezing happens on SD for our THD.....specifically CNN.

since its my mothers unit, and she lives 5 minutes away ive been doing a reboot every 3rd day and the problem hasnt surfaced again.


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## remotecontrolled

My TivoHD (9.3) started to freeze up about two weeks ago. It would freeze on any channel I turned to for a couple of seconds and I had to reboot to unfreeze it. It has gotten ever worse since then, I could watch for about forty minutes, then the Tivo would freeze and reboot by itself. I only use it for OTA. Now my Tivo is stuck on the Powering Up screen, it's bricked, IMO. I'm so bummed.


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## RichB

jkbrowne said:


> It happened consistently for me as well for many days, then all of a sudden it was fine for a-week and a half. If I had attenuated my signal a-week and a half ago, I would have thought I had fixed it after a-few days. But I didn't do anything at all and it just went away on its own. It's a difficult problem to pinpoint. Granted, with FIOS, there have been many reports of hot signals causing issues and I hope it did fix it for you.  However, most of the people having this issue do not have FIOS and some are not even using cablecards at all. Plus, if it was a signal strength issue, it would have also been an issue before the 9.3a update. I haven't read of anyone who was having this specific freezing problem before the 9.3a update. In fact, many people have received replacement TivoHD units that worked fine when they received them with 9.2, but immediately after they updated to 9.3a the issue was back. Same signal, same hardware, different software. Something with the 9.3a update is broken.


Yes. You are right. It happens less but it is still happening. I am hoping they broke something in 9.3a so that it can be easily 'Un-broken".

- Rich


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## morac

I wonder if it's the MPEG-2 encoding that's causing problems?

I have a S3 so I've never seen a freeze, but I have noticed that when fast forwarding sometimes the video will fast forward fluidly and sometimes it will skip freeze (basically show the same frame for a second, then jump to a new frame and repeat) while fast forwarding. The later only appear on commercials which are sometimes broadcast at a different resolution/ration than the main program (verified using VideoRedo on ToGo transfers) .

It would probably be useful to report what is shown on the screen when you first notice the freeze. Noting the cable company probably wouldn't hurt either.


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## knownzero

_1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?_

Yes, they happen to me in the middle of recording (as well as live tv). But, I don't think I've ever seen a freeze happen in real time, it's only when the tv is turned off and then on again that the Tivo will show signs of a freezing problem. When I play back the content recorded during the freeze the content works just fine.

_2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?_

No, the loopsets are just fine (I'm currently in the middle of a freeze right now and I'm in the network screen and the animated backrounds are moving along just fine).

_3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?_

When I play back a recorded show while in the middle of a freeze, that video also exhibits the freezing behavior but once rebooted, the video plays back just fine. I have not been able to play back video during a freeze without it exhibiting the freezing behavior.

A note: The TivoHD rarely, if ever, will freeze while the TV is on. I've mentioned it before but I can watch TV for hours at a time with no problems but once the TV turns off and back on again, that's when the freezing will occur. That's *really* odd.


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## steve614

I can pretty much echo knownzero above.

Only difference is my freezes happened shortly after using MRV with an S2 and it doesn't always happen.

So far, I've only suffered 3 freezes. I'm probably due for another this weekend so I might do a pre-emptive reboot just before the Indy race.


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## esb1981

This happened to me for the first time in a month. With the 777-clear function, should I perform that after I reboot the Tivo or before rebooting?


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## esb1981

TiVoStephen said:


> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?


It has only happened to me when watching live TV. After the reboot (including taking out cable cards and putting them back in, since this had solved this for a month for me), all recordings and live TV work fine.



TiVoStephen said:


> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?


I have had no problems with the background animation.



TiVoStephen said:


> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


When this happened to me in Live TV, I was able to play back a recorded program with no problems.


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## BradVA

TiVoStephen said:


> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?


Yes, my TiVo HD has frozen during the middle of a recording. If I let the recording finish before rebooting, the recording is fully watchable afterwards.



TiVoStephen said:


> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?


The loopsets are not frozen when live TV and video playback are frozen.



TiVoStephen said:


> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


Previously recorded shows will exhibit the same freezing behavior. However, a downloaded TiVo cast will play back just fine (tested today with the Onion TiVo cast).

A little extra background info, in case it helps. I'm connected to the TV via HDMI, have a stock TiVo HD with no external drive, and am using the TiVo wireless adapter. I had 2 CableCARDs installed last Friday, and recordings that were made before the CableCARDs were installed also exhibit the freezing problem.

My box has frozen 3 times so far this week, and I've taken to preemptively restarting it before any planned live TV watching.

Hope this information helps track the exact problem down.


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## jkbrowne

Anyone up for doing a youtube video to demonstrate the symptoms? I would do it myself, but I've been blessed with only one freeze over the last two weeks.  It would be a good way to visually communicate the exact symptoms of this issue to the "powers that be" and *hopefully* decrease our wait time for a solution.


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## chart

Add me to the list of folks with the freezing issue also.

Once a week on TivoHD in bedroom. Never on my Series 3 in Living room.
Reboot is only fix.


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## Chris8204

Why can't TiVo offer a way to roll back updates?

If we could do that, none of us would care right now while they fixed the issue. Any operating system lets you uninstall an update if something bad happens. There has to be a way that if a user has an issue with an update they can get it rolled back until the problem is fixed. My 9.2 ran stable for like 6 months and I never had ANY problems whatsoever.


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## greg_burns

Presumably any update modifies the database of shows on your Tivo. Undoing those changes is not possible without writing even more code.

Rolling back might mean loosing your shows/settings. Should that be an option? Probably.

Have you ever tried to unistall IE 7? Notice the big dialog box about all the programs installed since then which will probably break? Rolling back is not always easy.


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## dmarkow

TiVoStephen said:


> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?


Yes. Specifically, if I'm recording Channel A (HD) which watching Channel B (also HD) live, and then press the "Live TV" button to switch between tuners, and then back to Channel B, the stream locks up.


TiVoStephen said:


> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?


No, they play fine


TiVoStephen said:


> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


Freezes the exact same way (plays about 1 second and then stops).

As with everyone else, rebooting is the only fix. One odd thing I noticed too is that sometimes if there's a working HD stream, and I turn off my audio receiver, that locks up the video. However, the HDMI goes straight from my Tivo HD to my TV and uses a separate optical connection from the Tivo to the receiver.


----------



## johngaltil

Since i have been emptying the deleted folder I have not had a freeze (except when cable company had a problem) -- I keep it below 50 items with the 500 gig extender drive and at least for me, that solves the problem.

The way it occurs after people own the machine for 3 or so weeks sugests it has something to do with total storage.


----------



## DrBunsen

DrBunsen said:


> I was getting freezes every one to two days until I cleared out my deleted items folder. I went about a week without a freeze, and it's been 3 days since that last one (so one freeze in the past 10 days or so). So clearing that folder did seem to do some good, but it wasn't a perfect fix for me.


Just to give an update, after clearing out my deleted items (80+ entries) a little over 3 weeks ago, as well as making a concerted effort to watch and clear out a number of other shows, I've only had 2 total instances of freezeups. So, for me at least, having fewer recordings available (or possibly less disk space in use) seems to have helped my situation out.

YMMV. Just putting it out there as a clue for the TiVoTechies to mull over.

Bunsen...


----------



## sdaccord01

I have comcast and planning to get a Tivo HD unit. Should I hold off on upgrading to 9.3? Thanks.


----------



## greg_burns

sdaccord01 said:


> I have comcast and planning to get a Tivo HD unit. Should I hold off on upgrading to 9.3? Thanks.


You can't really hold off. It will upgrade on it own if it is connected. It has to be connected to get guide data to be useful.


----------



## kviri

johngaltil said:


> Since i have been emptying the deleted folder I have not had a freeze (except when cable company had a problem) -- I keep it below 50 items with the 500 gig extender drive and at least for me, that solves the problem.
> 
> The way it occurs after people own the machine for 3 or so weeks sugests it has something to do with total storage.


I doubt it. I just got the "freeze" while watching the tail end of the Indy 500 (as a recording in progress, not as Live TV -- though I'd caught up to "real time" at the point where I froze"). This TiVo HD was acquired a month or so ago in preparation for use in a new house I moved into on May 22. It had only ever been used for Live TV watching, and even that for only a handful of days. The Indy 500 was, in fact, the very first recording it had ever made -- so the Recently Deleted folder has never had anything in it, and there are no Suggestions (because it had no previous recordings to base preferences on).

If it matters... this is a completely "stock" TiVo HD, no upgraded or external hard drive.


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## jkbrowne

As a test, I have been trying to keep the recently deleted folder cleared on one of my TivoHD boxes, and let the other one be cleared automatically as needed. The first TivoHD box, the box that I have been clearing manually has had more freeze ups than the second box. In fact, I've had two freeze ups this weekend on the first box and none on the second. I also was experiencing issues on both these units as soon as I got them, because I got them right when 9.3a was released. They upgraded to 9.3a as soon as I installed them. At that time, I did not have any recordings on either, and they were freezing up on me almost every day.

So based on my experience, I don't think hard drive space has anything to do with this particular freezing issue.


----------



## RichB

TiVoStephen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks for your patience. Our engineers are still investigating, and have asked me to post for more information.
> 
> One important update: Please don't use the 7-7-7-Clear for anything other than a video freeze that fits the pattern described in this thread. Only TiVo HD units are experiencing this issue. If you have random freezes and jitters, or you have a Series3 unit, then you have a different issue and those should be posted in other threads.
> 
> Please do not use that 7-7-7-Clear sequence if your unit is entirely locked up -- only if the problem is frozen video but an otherwise responsive unit with normal working menus.
> 
> Below are some questions. Please post here in this thread in reply; don't e-mail individually since it just creates an extra step for me to then pass on the information to the engineers -- so it's faster for them to read it here. They are monitoring this thread.
> 
> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?


I happens while watching a show or playing a recorded show. The recorded show fails in the same location. Other record shows, play fine.l



> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?


Yes. The menus and TiVo do not respond. The lights acknowledge the IR command but do some respond. Sometimes it catches up and does the command after a few seconds, other times it does not. Sometimes it crashes.



> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


It is never able top play a show that was bad. TiVo sometimes rebooted. I even tried removing the cablecards and rebooting and the recording still failed at the same point. I had about 8 freezes that I barely got through with 3 crashes trying to play the 2 hour NCIS finale.

I went to Florida (from MA) to setup my Mother-In-Laws TiVo and failed miserably. I need some kind of statement from TiVo or I am going to have to pull the unit and replace it with Verizons DVR.

- Rich


----------



## tlc

TiVoStephen said:


> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?
> 
> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?
> 
> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


1. We have found it in the morning frozen in the middle of a show recorded late the night before. The show plays fine after a reboot.

2. The loopsets have always been fine.

3. It varies. I have seen it with both tuners hosed and a recorded HD show wouldn't play, but a record SD show would -- initially. After going back and forth and trying a lot of things, eventually the SD show wouldn't play either.
After reboot -- all was well.

It seems to be something that grows worse until a reboot is necessary. I have seen it hang in a commercial on a recorded show such that if I FF'd past the commercial I could watch the rest. I kept jumping back, trying to catch the first few seconds after the commercial, but if I landed in the commercial it would freeze. I had to give up on those seconds. I didn't need to reboot -- everything else was fine. But my wife had to reboot the next morning (frozen in recorded show).

Another time it consistently froze *exactly* on the transition between commercials. Both of these cases were very repeatable. This makes me wonder if it's _triggered_ by the way some channels are splicing in commercials (invalid MPEG?).

tlc


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## CallieBrady

Hi Sephen

> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?

Yes, it does this, but we are watching live TV. so recording one channel, other channel freezes. But it really only happens when we switch from tivo to live or change channels. Never just out of the blue - for example we are watching and everything is fine, and it suddenly freezes it. Rebooting solves everything. Nothing freezes, playback or live.

2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?

No they are fine.

3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?

Will test this next time it happens. I just rebooted this morning so no freezing today.


----------



## wtb

I had this happen where when playing a video back, the picture would freeze, but I would still hear the audio. I could fast forward and see the video, but when playing the video would be frozen. I have a TiVoHD with external drive.

After making sure the external drive had nothing next to it on any sides and nothing on top of it, it seems to be working fine. This may be a case of the external drive overheating.


----------



## tlc

Ok. Scary. Just had to restart because of freezes. Went through the 
Welcome. Powering up.
Almost there. Just a few minutes more...​cycle _twice_. I was holding my breath the second time, but it came up.

Is this ever normal?

First time we had to restart twice in one day


----------



## morac

tlc said:


> Another time it consistently froze *exactly* on the transition between commercials. Both of these cases were very repeatable. This makes me wonder if it's _triggered_ by the way some channels are splicing in commercials (invalid MPEG?).


See my post earlier in the thread about this. I forgot to mention that some cable system insert commercials. Those are the ones that are usually at a different resolution than the broadcast channel. BTW this used to cause a problem with closed captioning but that was fixed back in version 8.1 (I believe).


----------



## chewy2314

Okay, 3rd freeze. 14 days from the last time THD froze. I did the 777clear and 2 connections.

1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what 
happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?
Yes. Rebooting always fixes the problem.

2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?
No. Loopsets look fine as all my Live and Pre-recorded HD content.

3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?
Once SD material playback is frozen, all SD content is frozen. Live TV and Pre-recorded.

NOTE: HD material is fine during this problem. Both Live TV and Pre-recorded HD content is fine.


----------



## Jimbo713

Stuttering - that's what I'm seeing from time to time - totally at random. It fixes when tuning away and re-tuing the channel.


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## rickmeoff

im unclear on something here....maybe someone can clarify for me. if you get the freeze-up, will hitting '777 clear' unfreeze it? 

we've not tried the '777 clear'.......i was under the impression that was to 'tag it' for the folks at tivo (which they no longer need); the only thing that works for us is a reboot.

thanks.


----------



## discokill

Adding myself to the list of people experiencing this issue. I've been having it for a couple of weeks now, only noticed it on recorded shows and a restart solved the problem. Last night while watching live TV it started up on every channel, restarted the system and went to sleep while it booted up. Woke up this morning turned on the TV and it happened again. All channels SD and HD freeze after 1-3 seconds. No change to the menu screen. I don't have an external drive.

Is there any eta to when this will be fixed? Quite honestly it's starting to get incredibly annoying. I just ordered a second Tivo HD but I'm beginning to wonder if I should return it.


----------



## greg_burns

That is correct, 777 clear just marks a spot in the logs.

Stephen mentioned earlier he didn't want any more emails with the TSNs because they had enough volunteers.

But then later said this..


TiVoStephen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks for your patience. Our engineers are still investigating, and have asked me to post for more information.
> 
> One important update: Please don't use the 7-7-7-Clear for anything other than a video freeze that fits the pattern described in this thread. Only TiVo HD units are experiencing this issue. If you have random freezes and jitters, or you have a Series3 unit, then you have a different issue and those should be posted in other threads.
> 
> Please do not use that 7-7-7-Clear sequence if your unit is entirely locked up -- only if the problem is frozen video but an otherwise responsive unit with normal working menus.


I am not sure if 7-7-7 mention was just for those whose TSN they already had, or just anybody. Can't see it doing any good entering the code if nobody is looking at your Tivo's logs...


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## JustAllie

Did they send out a fix? My TiVoHD hasn't had a video freeze in several days. :up: 

I moved it to a different room (swapped it with my Series3, which is suffering from worse problems), so I suppose it's possible that the move somehow caused the problem to go away by itself. (Different video signal quality, perhaps?)


----------



## scsiguy72

My Tivo HD had the stutter problem a few months ago, it went away for the most part and now it is back worst than ever and much more often.

Before when it would stutter, I could do an (8 second) back and it would go away. Now it has done it 3 times over the weekend and only a reboot clears it.

Tivo HD, Running in Native, 9.3A OTA only, no cable or cable cards, HDMI Cables to the TV set.

Just a quick note: When I do a soft boot, I don't lose my 30 Skip Is that new? I have been restarting Tivo with the 3 thumbs down and enter method. I think in the past I always cycled power and would lose my 30 skip.


----------



## greg_burns

scsiguy72 said:


> Just a quick note: When I do a soft boot, I don't lose my 30 Skip Is that new? I have been restarting Tivo with the 3 thumbs down and enter method. I think in the past I always cycled power and would lose my 30 skip.


That began sticking back with 9.1 or something.


----------



## TiVoStephen

greg_burns said:


> That is correct, 777 clear just marks a spot in the logs.
> 
> Stephen mentioned earlier he didn't want any more emails with the TSNs because they had enough volunteers.
> 
> But then later said this..
> 
> I am not sure if 7-7-7 mention was just for those whose TSN they already had, or just anybody. Can't see it doing any good entering the code if nobody is looking at your Tivo's logs...


It's for anybody IF the type of freeze matches the symptoms -- TiVo HD, unit otherwise responsive other than frozen video.

We apologize again for the issue and our engineers continue to research the source of the problem.

Thanks for your patience.

Best regards,
Stephen


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## sneagle

/subscribe

Add me to the list with the problem


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## nhtevo

I just bought my tivo hd series 3 a week ago, and a few days into it it started this video freezing problem that everyone else has posted about. Tech from tivo said it is definitely the cable company's issue - after reading many posts here it appears that is not accurate.

I may have missed other posts, but has anyone had a video freezing problem with a non Tivo DVR from their cable provider? I have tivo hd in one room and standard comcast dvr in the other, and not experiencing video freeze so far on the comcast dvr.

Does anyone feel confident they have up to date and accurate acknowledgment from tivo as to the root cause? I bought the tivo hd and lifetime subscription, and want to return it in the 30 day window if it doesn't appear this problem is near resolution.


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## Swbfriar

I've been experiencing the same problem as everyone else. It first started about 2 months ago, and seems to be happening more frequently. 3 times last night alone!

I'll begin to flag with 777 Clear as well...


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## Effinay

Add me to the list. It's happened twice in as many days. But, I didn't have to reboot to get it working again. I flip-flopped between tuners a couple of times, and changed channels about 15-20 times (all HD channels) and it finally started working again. I figured it was TimeWarner doing something, but after reading this thread, I guess that's not the case.


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## willirl

I'm not sure if this problem is the same as above. But it is similar. If it is not the same can you please direct me to the correct thread?

My Tivo Series3 HD is about 2-3 months old and began to have this problem within the past month - I don't remember it doing this before.

The problem sounds similar to the freeze described above however the freeze will also occur on recorded programs. I go to a program that has finished recording and start it playing, the video will show a frozen picture and the audio will play normaily for about 15 seconds then it too will freeze. On this recorded program I could not get it to play normally by any means such as going to live and back, fast forward a bit then play etc.. NOTHING worked. This does not happen on every recording only rarely (twice that I remember).

I also get the same type of problem while watching live TV. I will change channels and the channel will play for a few seconds then freeze. At times I can change tuners and this will clear up the problem or I can stop/play/rewind in some random order and it will start working. This happens fairly frequently - several times a day.


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## scsiguy72

willirl said:


> I'm not sure if this problem is the same as above. But it is similar. If it is not the same can you please direct me to the correct thread?
> <Snip>


Sounds like the same problem to me. Does it clear if you reboot? Can you play a recording that was skipping but after reboot is OK?


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## steinercat

willirl said:


> I'm not sure if this problem is the same as above. But it is similar. If it is not the same can you please direct me to the correct thread?
> 
> My Tivo Series3 HD is about 2-3 months old and began to have this problem within the past month - I don't remember it doing this before.
> 
> The problem sounds similar to the freeze described above however the freeze will also occur on recorded programs. I go to a program that has finished recording and start it playing, the video will show a frozen picture and the audio will play normaily for about 15 seconds then it too will freeze. On this recorded program I could not get it to play normally by any means such as going to live and back, fast forward a bit then play etc.. NOTHING worked. This does not happen on every recording only rarely (twice that I remember).
> 
> I also get the same type of problem while watching live TV. I will change channels and the channel will play for a few seconds then freeze. At times I can change tuners and this will clear up the problem or I can stop/play/rewind in some random order and it will start working. This happens fairly frequently - several times a day.


Same exact symptoms as my problems.

42" Panasonic plasma/HDMI
Comcast (Cali.)
THD/9.3a
WD Expander


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## willirl

scsiguy72 said:


> Sounds like the same problem to me. Does it clear if you reboot? Can you play a recording that was skipping but after reboot is OK?


No, after the reboot it is NOT ok. The recorded program still will not play. You can ff etc. all you want. When you play you get a frozen screen and audio that will stop in 10-15 seconds (or less). You can go from there and do normal Tivo stuff ok (without a reboot).


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## jaredm

I've had my Tivo 3 HD since last October, and I didn't have this problem until May 1. One reboot fixes it for me. Now that I know about it, I will start logging with 777-Clear.


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## jacooley42

Same thing happens to me. It's been occurring for the last 3 to 5 days.

I've only noticed it on HD shows - not on SD.

For a recorded show, I can get it to restart by pressing the TiVo button twice and pressing the Play button to restart the show.

For a live HD show, I can usually get it to restart using the 8 second backup button or the forward/backup buttons. If this doesn't work, often switching tuners seems to work.

Jim


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## ManOfSteele

I'm also experiencing this problem, but for me, it only seems to be happening on Comedy Central (specifically, The Daily Show and the Cobert Report). How weird is that? The audio plays fine but the video is frozen. When I FF I can see the video zipping along but it freezes as soon as I go back to normal speed. A reboot always fixes the problem. I don't believe I have seen it on any of my HD stations, although I may have seen it once or twice on a station other than Comedy Central. But right now it appears Comedy Central is the main channel affected by this problem. I have two TiVo HD boxes and I have never seen the problem occur on that box, but I currently don't have any Comedy Central shows recording on that TiVo. I should switch where I record CC to see if the problem happens there as well.

They are both new TiVo HD boxes, just a few weeks old. Is there any point in calling TiVo Support on this matter?


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## willirl

Well, I just talked to TIVO tech support and we went through a couple of reboots with and without the cable card inserted. It did the freeze thing even without the cable card in (on the lower non-digital channels which don't require the card to work).

So she is sending me a new unit. I will post again when I get the new unit.


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## jmbissell

I just started experiencing the same problem. Have had the THD since December and never had a problem. Started freezing on live TV while watching hockey last night (NBC HD OTA) but would clear if I changed away to another channel. However, several recordings that were being made at the same time (SD) would not play back properly. Frozen video, audio that would keep playing. All other TiVo functions normal. After seeing this thread, I reset the box and the problem has cleared. The recorded programs play back OK.
BTW, I had a couple of TiVoCast programs that downloaded and they seemed to be playing OK while the programs recorded via the tuners would freeze.
I have both TW cable (analog) and OTA feeding the THD. No cable cards. I did upgrade to a 500 GB WD drive several months ago.


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## Arduinna

I've been having problems with my Tivo HD since I bought it about a week or so ago. Today it was working fine until I told it to connect to the network because I am lacking guide info for quite a few of my HD channels for unknown reason. When I went to live tv all my channels are frozen. I'm currently doing a reboot and hopefully that will fix it.

I've had problems with SD recordings with frozen video but the audio is fine. Haven't noticed the problem in HD recordings but I've only had this unit a short time and it had frozen up 2-3 times.


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## Jimbo713

I've been offered the replacement unit option as a solution to the "freeze" issue. Two types of replacement.

1) Send the unit to TiVo and they'll send you back a replacement. Some time with no TiVo at all.

2) Authorize your credit card for the purchase of the replacement and they'll send one right out, then credit your card when they receive yours. Net $0 charge.


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## Arduinna

If it's a software issue how is that going to solve anything though?


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## Babybull

I have a somewhat different problem. Live TV is fine, both SD & HD. When I try to watch anything on the Now Playing list. The picture plays for a few seconds, stops and starts continuously. The box then will not respond to any remote commands. The only way to get it to stop is a reset, and then it happens again every time I try to watch a recorded show. Tech support told me it they are working on a software fix, but can't tell me when that might happen. I call every day and get the same story from the tech and the managers. In the mean time, I can't watch any recorded shows. They won't offer any service credit either. Very frustrating.


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## SoonerOrLater

I've been experiencing similar (?) problems since the past few days. 
Software has updated to V9.3a.
First,
- Watching HD on first tuner. OK
- Switch to second tuner. Some channels work Ok and some channels video freezes while audio plays OK. It seems inconsistent whether HD or SD channels.
If channel freezes, rewind/forward through buffer works, but video freezes again as soon as going back to Play. (audio OK)
In this case, Record is possible, but play recording from playlist has same problem.
- Restart TiVo: Fixed the problem for a while. 
Play the same recording from playlist: OK!!!


But since yesterday, some channels completely black out, while other channels work fine. If channels black out, cannot record.
One HD channel (414: MHD), video plays for 20 seconds without audio, then picture freezes.
- Reboot -> no change. 

I called TiVo and TWC, and they both seem to think it's a problem with the MCard. (when taking out the CableCard, all analog channels work OK)
Appointment set for Monday...

Arghhh!!!


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## jacooley42

Exact same problem as SoonerOrLater.

I initially thought the problem was limited to HD, but that turned out not to be the case.

I get picture freezes with no audio, freezes with audio continuing, nothing on screen; i.e., what everyone else has reported.

I don't see how it could be the MCard when everyone all of a sudden seems to be having this problem. Doesn't this have to be a software problem?

Jim


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## MikeLeonard

Me too... 

Just got a TiVo HD, multi-stream card (from Comcast), using native HDMI output, and a MyDVR Expander -- and I'm experiencing frequent freezes watching HD content live or recorded.

I was about to start returning hardware [to BestBuy], but found some troubleshooting tips, which I'll try this evening after watching tonight's shows (found details for running tests here).

Now I have to wonder if this is a hardware issue or software problem, and if it is a known issue, who is doing what to remedy it. I've never had these issues on my 240- or 540-series TiVo's, so I'm wondering if this truly an HD thing.

I'll keep my eye on this thread...


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## SoonerOrLater

OK. Back to normal 

TWC now has a special service that deals with CableCard issues (they said this started in December 2007 due to the many complains, especially related to TiVo).
When I called TiVo service, they actually made a 3-way call with this TWC service, and asked my to check the "Auth" field in the Settings/CableCard/Conditional Access menu.
My "Auth" field showed "CAD" and that was not normal. TWC sent a reset signal to my card and a few hours later, everything was back to normal (no freeze). Now the "Auth" field shows "S", whatever that means.

So, it seems there was some kind of issue with the M-Card when the software was updated to 9.3a, but a rest from the cable company seems enough to fix things.
I'll report if the problem comes back.

Note: I don't have a DVR Expander.


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## msteele

My HD TiVo has been freezing up occasionally for the past few weeks, too. It happens on live shows and in recorded shows. It happens on a variety of channels. Like other people have mentioned, the video freezes but the audio keeps playing.

I don't have a cable card or HD cable... I've just got plain old analog cable plugged in and plain old S-Video going out to my TV. 

To unfreeze, all I have to do is hit the "jump back a few seconds" button... this works every time, and I can go on watching the show, but it's still annoying.


----------



## zerogee00

Hello,

Add me to the list - all new TiVo HD via HDMI to ONKYO 705, hdmi, to PANNY 46" PLASMA. TWC with one M-Card.

First freeze was Monday 26th, a recorded program in SD would not play, audio was fine, also picture moves when FF/REW.

During this week have noticed stuttering and slight freezes where a instant-replay or FF/REW will fix. Until today - May 30th - some SD frozen again - not all. Premium channels are frozen. Networks are not. HD Channels are fine.

7-7-7 Clear and 2 connections.

What now?

1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?

I've never seen it actually freeze, but a reboot fixed it the 1st time. Previously frozen recording were playable after reboot.

2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?

Loopsets are still playing fine.

3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?

No, all recordings that are SD while live TV is frozen are also frozen. HD recordings playback fine.

Please FIX!!!!!

David


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## jjp007

I am on comcast and I have been having problems over the past few days too. The Tivo will freeze randomly while watching TV, the next problem was I couldn't playback as that too would freeze (audio would go on but not the picture) and now today I am missing random channels. I am on perpertual hold to get someone with Comcast to reset my MCard or reauthorize it, whatever it's called to see if that helps.

So far I've been on hold for 20 mins. I'm having dejavu of trying to get this installed when I spent days on hold, literally all the time I spent on hold equeled up to days!! I guess they still haven't fixed the problem. Sheeeesh. Oh well, I plan on getting more taken off of my bill for the trouble.


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## jonhoffm

Tivo HD + DVR Expander on Comcast w/ M-Card approx 3 weeks old.

Freezes approx 1/2 the time when changing channels live. Skip back will fix the problem. Past few days, frequent freezes when viewing recorded shows. Skip back usually restarts the program but may still freeze. My audio stops with the freeze.

I truthfully cannot believe it. I had a Phillips DirecTivo for almost 5 years and never had a single problem.

This is very frustrating.


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## jjp007

They sent a refresh to my mcard and nope did not work so they told me to come get a new mcard.........uggggggggggggggggggggg i don't want to go through setting this up again. This sucks!


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## rick123

Discovered this issue the second day we had our new HD tivo and it happens occasionally ever since. As most here describe, we get picture freeze with sound continuing, complete freeze, normal play for 4-5 sec then freeze, etc...

Swiching back and forth usually resolves the issue, however several tivo suggestion programs have been unable to be watched regardless of our attempts.

I certainly hope this is a software issue that tivo is working on. We bought our HD tivo (with lifetime, maybe THAT was a mistake) as a substitute for the cable box. Would like to think that the HD tivo could work at least _as well _as a cable box, although of course the expectation was that it would work _better_.


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## willettg

In an attempt to resolve the freezing problem on my S3, I decided to unplug my cable cards, and go into guided setup as an "antenna only" DVR.

My S3 makes it OK thru most of guided setup, but gets hung every time on "Getting Program Info" screen, and the first step - "Preparing". The little ying/yang wheel spins and never proceeds.

I've tried unplugging the S3 for several hours, but still can't get past this point.

I tried plugging the cable cards back in, and configuring as cable only, or cable and antenna - same thing. Tried using zip code "00000" - same thing.

I'm at my wit's end here. Is there any "secret code" or pressing of certain buttons on the remote or S3 that will allow me to get past this?

At this point I'm willing to sacrifice my shows on disk just to get past this.

My S3 is about a year old, and has an external WD 500GB drive (Tivo approved version).

Help!


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## jonhoffm

jjp007 said:


> They sent a refresh to my mcard and nope did not work so they told me to come get a new mcard.........uggggggggggggggggggggg i don't want to go through setting this up again. This sucks!


Let me first say that I am no expert (by any measure), but at least in my case, recorded programs freeze at random times as well and can be restarted by skipping back. Therefore, it does not seem to me like it is a cablecard issue, but rather a buffering and retrieval issue from the HDD.

My concern is that as much as we would like to believe that TiVo's customer service and dedication is as well developed and friendly as their interface, it isn't.


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## greg_burns

willettg said:


> In an attempt to resolve the freezing problem on my S3, I decided to unplug my cable cards, and go into guided setup as an *"antenna only"* DVR.
> 
> My S3 makes it OK thru most of *guided setup*, but gets hung every time on "Getting Program Info" screen, and the first step - "Preparing". The little ying/yang wheel spins and never proceeds.


This for S2, but maybe it is related?

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...sunabletofinishachannelscaninGuidedSetup.html

Nah, on second thought I don't think that will help or is related.


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## willettg

jonhoffm:

I'm able to get thru all the O-T-A and cable channel setup fine. It's hanging at the point where it's going to get the online program guide update.

Thanks for your response though.


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## jonhoffm

willettg said:


> jonhoffm:
> 
> I'm able to get thru all the O-T-A and cable channel setup fine. It's hanging at the point where it's going to get the online program guide update.
> 
> Thanks for your response though.


Is your "freezing problem" an issue with not getting through the setup to receive the online guide? I presumed that the freeze you were referring to was the sudden halt of video playback (and possibly audio) on live and recorded shows. My comment related to my belief that the cablecard is not the culprit for that problem. For a setup issue, everything is in play and most problems do seem cablecard-related.


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## scurby2

I have had the hd tivo for 2 weeks and experienced the freeze last night also.............


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## rswmkw

I was on today with Tivo Tech and they said I am in need of a hard drive replacement and for $149 they would take in my unit and replace it. I am wondering how a unit working perfectly for just over one year goes bad. They said it had nothing too do with software up date to 9.3a? Any thought do the exchange or wait for them to do a software fix maybe 9.3b? I am having hangs and freezing issue similar to other post any thoughts?
Thx
RSW


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## RobKFL

Tivo is a few months old. Just in the last week or 2 both live and recorded shows will randomly freeze, audio will continue another few seconds then freezes also.

Skipping back a few seconds will resolve it but for example last night this happened 4 times in a 30 minute playback.

All our hard drives can't be failing at the same time. This is clearly a buffering issue. When watching live TV and it freezes I will roll back about 5 seconds and hit play and then it's fine.

Gotta be software.


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## rick123

I agree that this cannot be a hard drive issue with Soooo many of us having this experience. I can't speek for the software before the current version because my tivo is new as of last month and has always had this version. But if this problem has become prevelant since the latest revision it must be software related. Seems obvious. 

I can't believe Tivo would blame this on hard drive problems. I have a brand new 500gb one, there's nothing wrong with mine or anybody elses... Tivo is possibly getting to corporate for their own good. They used to really care for the subscribers "back in the day".

I hope this can be resolved soon; my Comcast DVR doesn't have problems, the interface just sucks, but it records and plays the programs the way it is supposed to!


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## morac

rick123 said:


> I agree that this cannot be a hard drive issue with Soooo many of us having this experience. I can't speek for the software before the current version because my tivo is new as of last month and has always had this version. But if this problem has become prevelant since the latest revision it must be software related. Seems obvious.


You have to be careful with this statement since while many people are experiencing problems, most are experiencing a very specific problem. There is a "known issue" (not necessarily known by TiVo phone support) affecting TiVo HD (652) models where the video/audio freezes attempting to play back recordings and Live TV. A reboot temporarily fixes this problem. This is the issue that TiVoStephen has requested users to supply logging data for.

If you are experiencing problems on a Series 2 or S3 (648) model TiVo or you are experiencing random reboots, stuttering or any other kind of problem not exactly as described above, then the problem is not known and could be a pending drive failure.


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## jjp007

Ok so my 'freezing problem after the upgrade that turned into channels disappearing" was resolved today. I finally got someone from Comcast to reset the whole cable card from scratch. I gave the rep all the numbers like when I activated and she put everything in there and so far everything is working. Just a thought but maybe try calling the cable company and get your card reauthorized again, just like you did to set it up. Not just a 'refresh' which is what the rep said he did last night and didn't work.


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## rick123

_There is a "known issue" (not necessarily known by TiVo phone support) affecting TiVo HD (652) models where the video/audio freezes attempting to play back recordings and Live TV. A reboot temporarily fixes this problem._

That is the problem I'm having in a nutshell. And I have rebooted twice which has seemed to make it go away for awhile.

What exactly is the logging info tivostephen is looking for and how do you get it and send it to him?


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## swilcox

morac said:


> You have to be careful with this statement since while many people are experiencing problems, most are experiencing a very specific problem. There is a "known issue" (not necessarily known by TiVo phone support) affecting TiVo HD (652) models where the video/audio freezes attempting to play back recordings and Live TV. A reboot temporarily fixes this problem. This is the issue that TiVoStephen has requested users to supply logging data for.
> 
> If you are experiencing problems on a Series 2 or S3 (648) model TiVo or you are experiencing random reboots, stuttering or any other kind of problem not exactly as described above, then the problem is not known and could be a pending drive failure.


This is EXACTLY the problem I'm having too. TiVo HD (652). Random freezes of both live and/or recorded TV, both SD and HD. Restart fixes it (typically for a week or more).

This morning's problem: I recorded several hours of news yesterday. Watched much of it while it was being recorded. Watched TiVo (live and recorded) all night last night with no problems. Then, late last night, my wife tried to watch the recorded news programs -- it was ALL frozen. But not live TV and not a program recorded at 10 pm either.

This morning, I also found all the programs frozen, but live TV was fine. A restart fixed everything. Now those news programs recorded yesterday are viewable. (They were all SD.)

One more note: this happened on the TiVo stock hard drive. But last week I replaced/upgraded the drive with a 500GB. It's still happening. So I seriously doubt that this is a hard drive issue.

I'm FAR from an expert on this, but if this were my computer I'd stop suspecting the hard drive, or buffering too (isn't the buffer typically memory in the drive itself? Since I've experienced this across two drives, it's certainly not the hard drive's onboard buffer). It seems like a software issue.

I'm happy to help TiVo tech support troubleshoot this in any way. Please contact me if needed.

Sherman Wilcox
Albuquerque NM


----------



## swilcox

TiVoStephen said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks for your patience. Our engineers are still investigating, and have asked me to post for more information.
> 
> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?
> 
> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?
> 
> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?
> 
> Thanks again for your patience as we research this issue.
> 
> Best regards,
> Stephen


I posted (6-1-08) about this issue too. Answers (to the best of my ability) to your questions:

1. I watched a program I was also recording yesterday. But then later when we went back to view it, it was frozen. A restart fixed it -- it is now viewable again.

2. The loopsets are NEVER frozen for me.

3. I have never seen a case where previously recorded video played back fine while live TV was frozen.

As I reported in my other post, this morning the problem was this: several hours of previously recorded (yesterday) video (much of which I was watching while it was being recorded) was frozen this morning. But live TV was fine (both SD and HD). A restart 'fixed' the recorded video: it is now playable.

This is a TiVo HD (652).

Sherman Wilcox


----------



## scola77

I am seriously considering purchasing a TiVo HD - which one (the series 3 or the HD) is more prone to this freeze up problem? Am I correct in saying that this issue is more with the TiVo HD and not the Series 3 HD?

Thanks


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## swilcox

morac said:


> For the 9.3a software version, TiVoStephen (in another thread) has acknowledged that there is an issue, but since hardware problems and software problems can result in the same symptoms (in this case freezing) one can't really be sure which problem one is experiencing short of having the TiVo replaced and seeing if the problem still occurs. Since a number of people have reported having their TiVo replaced and having no problems with the new unit until it upgraded to 9.3a, that strongly suggests a software issue.


So my case seems especially pertinent here: Thinking that my case was a hard drive problem (and my TiVo is out of warranty), I did a replacement/upgrade from WeaKnees. [Replaced original 160 GB Western Digital with 500 GB Seagate.]

Freezing CONTINUES to occur. So in my case it is EXTREMELY unlikely to be a hard drive issue.

Sherman Wilcox


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## jbowden

I have this issue as well and it started when the last update was downloaded. The issue is very bad and makes watching TV almost worthless as you loose interest when you focus on what the heck is going on....


----------



## Ruby

I also have been having the freezing problem. (Tivo HD with My Tivo Expander and OTA only.) I called Tivo support and they had me run the disk diagnostic. It would not run and froze the entire machine. I disconnected the My Expander and successfully ran the disk diagnostic (started running it anyway). They said to replace the My Tivo Expander which I did.

After I connected the new Expander disk I tried to run the disk diagnostic again. It froze as before. So two different Expanders acted the same way. No freezes BTW but then they didn't start happening right away before.

I called Tivo support again and they said it might be the Tivo eSata connector and they are sending me a new Tivo.

I'll let you know if this fixes anything.


----------



## Nake

I've had my Tivo Series 3 HD DVR with a multi-stream CableCard since December 2007. Running stock, no external disk expanders or upgraded internal hard drives. After a few months I started getting this video freeze issue just as you have described above, though to my memory I have never seen it when trying to watch SD programming, only live HD and previously recorded HD programming. 

I did notice that the first time it happened the menu looping background animation was also frozen but since then I've never gone back to check if it was frozen every time the HD won't play, I will do so next time. A reboot solved it (temporarily) and since then I find that I have to reboot it about every 1 to 2 weeks. 

Just last night trying to watch a pre-recorded HD show the familiar symptoms returned: I started playing the show, got about 1 second into it, and the HD video froze, no audio. I could fast forward into the show and see the scenes but as soon as I started playing again it started not from the point I forwarded to but from the 1st frame (what was stuck in the buffer?). After a reboot, the HD show played fine. 

I'm very frustrated with Tivo for introducing this new 'feature' in what appears to be a recent software upate. I hope they're getting an earful from this forum and that they're working on a fix! Like someone else pointed out before, the Comcast DVR does have a horrible interface but it does play back HD properly! 

As a side note, it would be nice if Tivo designed an option to 'Reboot Tivo at hh:mm am/pm on daily/weekly schedule' in the menu to automatically give it a fresh start every once in a while to clear up issues like this if they're going to be so delayed in issuing a fix.


----------



## willettg

jonhoffm, et al:

My S3 problems started on May 25th with the "freeze" for both live programs (cable and OTA), as well as for recorded shows.

While talking to Tivo Support, in an effort to isolate whether the issue was cable card related or not, it was decided to go into "Guided Setup" to configure my S3 as an "antenna only" system.

As I stated above, my S3 makes it OK thru most of guided setup, but gets hung every time on "Getting Program Info" screen, and the first step - "Preparing". The little ying/yang wheel spins and never proceeds.

I need help getting beyond this point. Are there any "secret" power up options (remote control buttons, or front panel buttons) that will allow me to force a clean cold boot in order to get my Tivo functions restored?



jonhoffm said:


> Is your "freezing problem" an issue with not getting through the setup to receive the online guide? I presumed that the freeze you were referring to was the sudden halt of video playback (and possibly audio) on live and recorded shows. My comment related to my belief that the cablecard is not the culprit for that problem. For a setup issue, everything is in play and most problems do seem cablecard-related.


----------



## moyekj

willettg said:


> I need help getting beyond this point. Are there any "secret" power up options (remote control buttons, or front panel buttons) that will allow me to force a clean cold boot in order to get my Tivo functions restored?


 Try booting up without ethernet/wireless networking enabled. Then if you manage to get to Tivo Central then re-connect and do a network connection.


----------



## morac

swilcox said:


> Freezing CONTINUES to occur. So in my case it is EXTREMELY unlikely to be a hard drive issue.


In your case I would agree.

The case I was trying to make is that there are people posting here claiming that they started getting lockups, reboots, stuttering, etc after 9.3a installed and since a lot of people are having the video freeze problem with the 9.3a software, their problem *must* also be caused by the 9.3a software (which may or may not be true).


----------



## RoundBoy

I'll chime in since i have a 9.3a box with NO issues.. but the two friends I recommended Tivo too are now getting the freeze bug after upgrading to 9.3a.

They were both on 8.x previously .. One refurb, one new out of the box.


----------



## greg_burns

RoundBoy said:


> I'll chime in since i have a 9.3a box with NO issues.. but the two friends I recommended Tivo too are now getting the freeze bug after upgrading to 9.3a.
> 
> They were both on 8.x previously .. One refurb, one new out of the box.


Your 9.3a box, is it a TivoHD or an S3?

Are you and your friends all on the same cable provider? Same vicinity?


----------



## dig_duggler

morac said:


> In your case I would agree.
> 
> The case I was trying to make is that there are people posting here claiming that they started getting lockups, reboots, stuttering, etc after 9.3a installed and since a lot of people are having the video freeze problem with the 9.3a software, their problem *must* also be caused by the 9.3a software (which may or may not be true).


Surely you'd agree that given the reports here (and the discrepancy between the reports now and pre 9.3a, as well an acknowledgement by TiVoStephen) that it is _very likely_ that 9.3a is the cause?


----------



## tlc

Happening to me again. Again specifically triggered by and ad FOR MY CABLE COMPANY. (So probably inserted BY my cable company.) If I FF past this ad, it works. If I RW back to the add -- freeze up.

I am convinced this is related to how commercials are spliced in.

Cablevision ads on CNN-HD, btw.


----------



## greg_burns

dig_duggler said:


> Surely you'd agree that given the reports here (and the discrepancy between the reports now and pre 9.3a, as well an acknowledgement by TiVoStephen) that it is _very likely_ that 9.3a is the cause?


These kinda of symptons (maybe not exact) have been around long before 9.3a.

It is a diservice to tell everyone to wait for a software update, if their problem (which possibly is not the same as the others) could be fixed another way.

my .02


----------



## scola77

Which box are you using: S3 or HD?



greg_burns said:


> These kinda of symptons (maybe not exact) have been around long before 9.3a.
> 
> It is a diservice to tell everyone to wait for a software update, if their problem (which possibly is not the same as the others) could be fixed another way.
> 
> my .02


----------



## jy3

Anyone here using a TivoHD box in Alexandria, VA on Comcast cable with an M-Card and not experiencing issues?

I've been through 3 boxes all from Bailey's Crossroads BestBuy.

The first one never powered up, the second worked flawlessly for a week, then started stuttering and ultimately locking up when changing channels.

The third, I got yesterday. This one stuttered out of the box, and this morning started to do random reboots.

I talked to a Tivo tech this morning and he suggested I return this box for another, and get Comcast to replace my M-Card for 2 single stream cards.

Does anyone really know what the deal is with these HD boxes and cable cards? Even the tech admitted that the stuttering seemed to be hardware related, so why wouldn't the rebooting?

I'm at a loss. I'd hate to give up on Tivo, but damn!

At the very least, I'm returning this one for a refund, and trying out Circuit City's stock from around the corner. Hopefully they received the good ones


----------



## RoundBoy

greg_burns said:


> Your 9.3a box, is it a TivoHD or an S3?
> 
> Are you and your friends all on the same cable provider? Same vicinity?


All TivoHD... all with comcast.. but different comcast systems. One southern suburb (delaware county), one northern (bucks), one philly.

In the case of the bucks county box.. he was even asking me on how to get the latest sw version, as he was trying to get it updated before comcast came to install the cable card. That said, I don't have enough data to say its pre vs post cable card install issues vs pre vs post 9.3a sw.


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## tlc

tlc said:


> Happening to me again. Again specifically triggered by and ad FOR MY CABLE COMPANY. (So probably inserted BY my cable company.) If I FF past this ad, it works. If I RW back to the add -- freeze up.
> 
> I am convinced this is related to how commercials are spliced in.
> 
> Cablevision ads on CNN-HD, btw.


Bingo. 45 minutes later it froze on a different commercial for my cable company on the same channel. This time, the freezing behavior carried over into the next commercial, but became watchable when the show returned.


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## swilcox

FWIW: I don't know when the 9.3a software hit, but my problems started around April 25. I was out of town, and my wife emailed me to say that the Tivo had 'frozen'.

We bought this HD Christmas 2007 and never had this problem before that. [And again, it's on Comcast, single multistream Cablecard.]

Just had the freeze again this morning. A restart fixed it, as it always does for me.

Another FWIW: I have weird sound effects problems. Sometimes I get the beep when popping up the guide, sometimes not; sometimes I get it when I navigate through the guide, sometimes not. I always get it when navigating in Tivo Central; sometimes entering a channel number while in the guide is accompanied by beeps for each number entered, sometimes not. Fiddling with the sound effects volume does nothing to fix this.

FWIW #3: I totally lost video once. I was changing the aspect panel color from grey to black, and ALL video (even the loopsets) disappeared. A restart fixed it.


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## Bryanw20

Mine just started doing this. Got 2 new TivoHD"s about a month or 2 ago. Pretty flawless (had one replaced for a slightly noisy fan). 
So no freezeup issues, I only have OTA, no cable, or cable cards. I had broadband connection until a week ago. Then DSL has been down for about a week now, so I switched over to dial-in connection. That's the first I noticed the freeze ups. 1 box is connected via HDMI, the other via componet. So the only thing I can think of that changed is network connection changed from broadband to dial-in.
Both have version 9.3a (not sure if this is a recent change)
I rebooted 1 yesterday, and it's all ready frozen again.

I apologize in advance if this may have been answered in the 11 pages prior, but I have a slow dial up connection, takes about 5 mins for each page to load.


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## swilcox

tlc said:


> Bingo. 45 minutes later it froze on a different commercial for my cable company on the same channel. This time, the freezing behavior carried over into the next commercial, but became watchable when the show returned.


Yeah, but my freezing has NO correlation with commercials.


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## jmbissell

swilcox said:


> Another FWIW: I have weird sound effects problems. Sometimes I get the beep when popping up the guide, sometimes not; sometimes I get it when I navigate through the guide, sometimes not. I always get it when navigating in Tivo Central; sometimes entering a channel number while in the guide is accompanied by beeps for each number entered, sometimes not. Fiddling with the sound effects volume does nothing to fix this.


That behavior is normal. I believe if you are watching an HD channel then the sounds don't happen. The TiVo cannot inject its sounds into a Dolby stream. See the thread 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=384062


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## swilcox

jmbissell said:


> That behavior is normal. I believe if you are watching an HD channel then the sounds don't happen. The TiVo cannot inject its sounds into a Dolby stream. See the thread
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=384062


Ahh... thanks! I hadn't noticed the correlation with HD. Makes sense -- I went through all sorts of craziness trying to understand closed captions on HD/HDMI.


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## tlc

tlc said:


> Bingo. 45 minutes later it froze on a different commercial for my cable company on the same channel. This time, the freezing behavior carried over into the next commercial, but became watchable when the show returned.


And a third time. A third commercial for Cablevision on CNN-HD that caused the freeze. Behaves badly during the immediately following commercials, better when the show returns.

A scheduled recording moved that tuner off CNN-HD. Now it's progressed to the point that changing tuners causes a video-only freeze which one jump-back will cure, but the recorded shows are OK.

This will get progressively worse until I have to restart.


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## wmhjr

greg_burns said:


> Presumably any update modifies the database of shows on your Tivo. Undoing those changes is not possible without writing even more code.
> 
> Rolling back might mean loosing your shows/settings. Should that be an option? Probably.
> 
> Have you ever tried to unistall IE 7? Notice the big dialog box about all the programs installed since then which will probably break? Rolling back is not always easy.


The difference (and it is a very large difference) is that Tivo controls 100% of all software in the THD, where nobody controls 100% of the software on your PC. The Tivo is a completely closed system and as a result such changes "should" be childs play for any reasonably competent commercial application development team. It's all in how they are branching code and documenting - or not.


----------



## morac

dig_duggler said:


> Surely you'd agree that given the reports here (and the discrepancy between the reports now and pre 9.3a, as well an acknowledgement by TiVoStephen) that it is _very likely_ that 9.3a is the cause?


I agree that the problem (as TiVoStephen describes it) is very likely caused by a bug in 9.3a. 
What I disagree with is that _all problems_ are likely caused by bugs in 9.3a.


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## tjm74

Been enjoying HD TiVo (stock) with Comcast moto M-Card trouble-free from Xmas 2007 until late April 2008. TiVo wireless adapter.

I assume that's around when my TiVo self-upgraded to 9.3a?

The first time this happened, I was in TiVo HD heaven, recording a red sox game in HD on one tuner and a Celtics playoff game on the other. Lots of flipping back and forth. Video decoding started freezing on the sox game, ff or skip ahead would get it going again for a few minutes, then another freeze, ff to fix, then it started happening on both channels, and soon the ff workaround became ineffective.

I think the menu loops were okay, and I could play back previously recorded stuff with mixed success. Rebooted, problem went away for a week or two.

Rebooted again recently (with tivo cs on the phone, trying to figure out why my TiVo thinks that my Yahoo accounts are not valid -- FYI punctuation in your yahoo account pw still appears to be problematic) and the problem started happening again within minutes of rebooting. Coincided with my router being down, probably irrelevant. Second reboot seems to have fixed it.

Next time it happens I will 777-clear. I really hope TiVo fixes this asap, I didn't spend this much money (lifetime) for beta sw. Had a long love affair with my DirecTivo Series 1, that baby was solid. Have been with TiVo since day one, with the 14-hour model. This is my 3rd TiVo (not counting the ones I bought for my parents and my sister).

Can't afford a new TV yet since I spent all my $$ on the TiVo so I output to 480i -- (don't laugh!) but the HD signal downsampled to 480 still kicks SD's butt on my old Sharp 27" - PQ rocks!

-tom


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## dig_duggler

morac said:


> I agree that the problem (as TiVoStephen describes it) is very likely caused by a bug in 9.3a.
> What I disagree with is that _all problems_ are likely caused by bugs in 9.3a.


Fair enough


----------



## hmm52

willettg said:


> jonhoffm, et al:......As I stated above, my S3 makes it OK thru most of guided setup, but gets hung every time on "Getting Program Info" screen, and the first step - "Preparing". The little ying/yang wheel spins and never proceeds.
> 
> I need help getting beyond this point. Are there any "secret" power up options (remote control buttons, or front panel buttons) that will allow me to force a clean cold boot in order to get my Tivo functions restored?


I'm not certain this will work for you but it's worth a try. I pulled both cards from the S3 about a week ago to test some things for posting in a different thread. As part of this, guided setup was done each for no cards, one card and finally 2 cards. I hadn't seen it before but setup hung at the point you mentioned - 45 minutes or so total time. Pushing left, possibly right, arrow on remote caused setup to advance immediately.


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## deaklet

TiVoStephen said:


> 1. Does your video freeze ever happen in the middle of recording a show? If so, what happens after a reboot and you go back to play that recording and reach the point where the freeze occurred?


I don't know. We haven't lost anything important during a reboot.



> 2. When there is a video freeze, are the loopsets (the background animation in the menu screens) frozen also?


Loopsets work normally.



> 3. If you are in live TV when the video freezes, what happens when you go into Now Playing and play back a previously recorded show? Have you ever seen a case where a previously recorded show played back normally despite live TV video being frozen at that time?


Some shows will play normally, others won't. I saw a live video feed freeze this evening, and tried to watch an episode of "Wasted" on Planet Green or somesuch, and it froze, giving me gray screen or frozen screen, with audio dropouts. I tried to watch BBC news, and it played fine. I then tried to play Wasted again, and still had video freeze--at one brief point, a BBC screenshot appeared over the Wasted audio, but that was brief and went away.


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## jman23

Can someone please review this problem and tell me if this is the issue we're all talking about or if it's different? I have very infrequently experienced the main video freezing issue being discussed. Reboots fix that issue. The issues I'm about to list are not fixed by rebooting. I am asking this question because I am being told by a Tivo CSR that all my problems are conveniently associated with this video freezing problem (although it is by far the most infrequent of my issues). I had two CSRs ready to exchange my box today (I had to end the call with one of them to see if removing my splitter fixed the problem), but I got transferred to a Level II tech and they said they are not doing exchanges for the video freezing issue because it could be a software issue. I want to make sure I'm not being dismissed just because they have one major identified issue and ignoring everything else I'm saying. I have not heard of many others with the video freezing issue also having my numerous issues. I could be wrong, but this is why I'm asking. He also said there was no one higher than him I could talk to, does that even make sense??

I have a stock TivoHD, local cable company, HDMI out, optical audio out, multi-stream Scientific Atlanta CableCARD in slot 1, native video, no DVR expander. These have been experienced with both live and recorded shows. It happens on HD and non-HD channels. However, when I watch video on the TivoHD that I transfer from my Series 2 Tivo there are zero issues. This is clearly a recording/buffering issue and not a playback issue. It does not happen all the time, but at least one issue per recorded show or full show watched at live.

For some shows, the video starts playing faster than it should while the audio continues at the same rate. Eventually the video slows down and the audio speeds up and catches the video. Then it proceeds like everything is normal. If I pause it when it's doing the weird fast video, it will work fine once I hit play. However, it will always do it if I rewind and replay this point.

The audio periodically just drops from the show. There is no audio through the HDMI cable to the tv and my surround sound (connected via optical audio cable) goes from Dolby Digital or PCM to literally acting as if there is no input at all. The video proceeds at normal speed and eventually the audio comes back (about 5-10 seconds or so later).

The picture sometimes gets garbled with a sort of boxy pixelation. Sometimes this is just a quick thing. Sometimes it messes up the whole playing of that portion of the show (lasts a minute or less, but the video is horrific). It does not appear to be channel-specific nor dependent on signal strength.

The video also sometimes stutters showing every third frame or so. If I change the channel and then go back to that channel, all is fine.

The cable guy came out twice and has determined it's not a cable issue.

I have been a diehard Tivo supporter and have never experienced frustration like this. What is the purpose of the warranty if they can choose what problems they want that to apply to or not??


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## lavajunk

I've been getting the frozen video and audio, also temporarily fixed with a reboot. I tried removing the cable card (M-card from time warner - Rochester NY) and I didn't experience the freeze while the cable card is out, but I also can't watch anything HD! My live and recorded shows both freeze - even though I've watched the recorded show before (and after the reboot) without issue.

I called support today, when it froze and I removed the cable card (but didn't reboot) and I still could not watch live TV or recordings. I thought I was going to hear that its a bad hard drive and I need to send my TIVO back in (still within the first year -so still under warranty). I was told there will be a software upgrade soon and that there are a lot of others with the same freeze issue. They (Tivo support) now believe its a software issue. I was told today if I continue to recieve this issue in two weeks to call back in. The expectation was that the upgrade will be in place before the end of two weeks - I hope so - the random freezing is a pain.

This is my second Tivo and love the service - between my two Tivos (when I got my HD TV) I switched to Time Warners (Cable) DVR and could not stand it compared to my old (Series 2) Tivo. So for those of you new to Tivo - it really is a much better product - and I'm optimistic that the folks at Tivo will have this fixed soon. (OK maybe I'm an optimist)

Lets hope there is a resolution soon to be released.


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## RoundBoy

for the first time last night... I got a video freeze issue on my TivoHD... on some channels, I could watch 1-10 min before a freeze.... on others, it would freeze the picture as soon as I changed the channel. Audio would still play in varying amounts.

Even shows recorded already recorded froze when i would play them, but the audio would stop. RW / FF would fix it for a bit.. then then it would do it again. Didn't reboot, but i;ll see what happens tonight.


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## Juano11

Mine started freezing/stuttering a month or two ago. Mostly it is worse on SD channels and recordings, but also sometimes happens with HD programming.

At times the video and audio are completely frozen, but the TiVo itself is still responsive. Other times the audio plays fine, but the video stutters or is "choppy".

It happens with both live and recorded programs. Sometimes simply navigating back to the Now Playing list resolves the problem, other times a soft reset resolves the problem temporarily. At times, the video will be playing fine, but will start to have problems if you FF or REW and then start playing again.

Programs sent from pyTivo consistently play without problems...weird. Even if all of my recorded programs are having the problem, programs from pyTivo play seamlessly. 

Software Version 9.3a-01-2-652

I hope this problem is fixable and is able to be resolved soon. It's happening everyday now and is making the TiVo virtually unusable due to its unreliability.


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## fdeezle

Add me to the list of frozen Tivos. Rebooted and afterwords everything was fine. One curiosity though - when I did the reboot, I did not get the "Powering Up" screen etc. Everything was black until the short intro video. Anyone else experience this?


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## Langree

fdeezle said:


> Add me to the list of frozen Tivos. Rebooted and afterwords everything was fine. One curiosity though - when I did the reboot, I did not get the "Powering Up" screen etc. *Everything was black until the short intro video. Anyone else experience this?*


HDMI connection?

mine does that, I just figure the initial signal check doesn't set right, mine usually shows up at "Just a few more minutes".


----------



## fdeezle

Langree said:


> HDMI connection?
> 
> mine does that, I just figure the initial signal check doesn't set right, mine usually shows up at "Just a few more minutes".


Yes I am using hdmi. But I've had that since day one and have seen the welcome screens before the video. I hope my Tivo isn't experiencing an unrelated issue.


----------



## Langree

fdeezle said:


> Yes I am using hdmi. But I've had that since day one and have seen the welcome screens before the video. I hope my Tivo isn't experiencing an unrelated issue.


Don't think so, sometimes I see the screens, sometimes not. I honestly just think it's an initial resolution handshake issue that is no big deal. I even think at one point I power cycled my receiver and the screen was fine.


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## fdeezle

fdeezle said:


> Yes I am using hdmi. But I've had that since day one and have seen the welcome screens before the video. I hope my Tivo isn't experiencing an unrelated issue.


But then again I've only had it for about a week and don't think it's had a restart since guided setup.


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## fdeezle

Langree said:


> Don't think so, sometimes I see the screens, sometimes not. I honestly just think it's an initial resolution handshake issue that is no big deal. I even think at one point I power cycled my receiver and the screen was fine.


Thanks for the info. I'm not as worried about the Tivo now. Love the gamertag btw.


----------



## morac

jman23 said:


> For some shows, the video starts playing faster than it should while the audio continues at the same rate. Eventually the video slows down and the audio speeds up and catches the video. Then it proceeds like everything is normal. If I pause it when it's doing the weird fast video, it will work fine once I hit play. However, it will always do it if I rewind and replay this point.
> 
> The audio periodically just drops from the show. There is no audio through the HDMI cable to the tv and my surround sound (connected via optical audio cable) goes from Dolby Digital or PCM to literally acting as if there is no input at all. The video proceeds at normal speed and eventually the audio comes back (about 5-10 seconds or so later).
> 
> The picture sometimes gets garbled with a sort of boxy pixelation. Sometimes this is just a quick thing. Sometimes it messes up the whole playing of that portion of the show (lasts a minute or less, but the video is horrific). It does not appear to be channel-specific nor dependent on signal strength.


All of the above could be a problem with the video/audio stream (ie: program source issue). This is especially true if replaying the same area of the recording results in the same issues. That said the TiVo should be able to handle bad data in the stream and shouldn't "freak out" (pixelation is okay, but getting stuck is "speedy playback mode" is not).

I've very infrequently seen something similar to your first issue on my S3 where the video starts playing back really fast until I do an instant replay which fixes it.


----------



## jman23

morac said:


> All of the above could be a problem with the video/audio stream (ie: program source issue). This is especially true if replaying the same area of the recording results in the same issues. That said the TiVo should be able to handle bad data in the stream and shouldn't "freak out" (pixelation is okay, but getting stuck is "speedy playback mode" is not).


I somewhat disagree about it being a source issue, but either way we agree that the Tivo should not handle the bad data (if that's the case) in this manner. Tonight in one half an hour show I had "freak out" issues and the audio dropped out for 5 seconds or so.

Do you agree with me that all my symptoms are not part of this video freeze issue? I just find it way too much a coincidence and have the feeling the CSR is just lumping me in with a known (but not yet fixed) issue rather than considering it is part of a different issue.

I'm feeling even more confident after reading TiVoStephen's post a while ago:


TiVoStephen said:


> One important update: Please don't use the 7-7-7-Clear for anything other than a video freeze that fits the pattern described in this thread. Only TiVo HD units are experiencing this issue. If you have random freezes and jitters, or you have a Series3 unit, then you have a different issue and those should be posted in other threads.


As I said earlier I am very infrequently having the video freeze issue, but it is mostly the random issues described in my earlier post. TiVoStephen flat out says it is a different issue.

At this point I'd be glad to have a video freeze issue. At least that has the temporary fix of a hard or soft reboot...

I'm just very frustrated with customer support and am looking to see if outside unbiased people see it in the same way I do.


----------



## morac

jman23 said:


> Do you agree with me that all my symptoms are not part of this video freeze issue? I just find it way too much a coincidence and have the feeling the CSR is just lumping me in with a known (but not yet fixed) issue rather than considering it is part of a different issue.


Based on the description that most people (and TiVoStephen) are using, I would say your problem is not the same issue.

The problem as has been described by the majority of people here appears to be:
1. Once problem occurs, attempting to playback any video (live or previously recorded) results in the video freezing with no audio (rew/ff works in 2x and 3x mode).
2. All other functionality works (ie: TiVo does not lock up, tivo records and scheduled times, etc)
3. Rebooting results in normal TiVo operation (including playback of previously frozen video) until problem occurs again.


----------



## Crazydiamond

Add me to the list - uggghhhh ! Had my new HD unit since december. This (freeze with audio) started a few weeks ago and is getting worse.

Will try hard reset and deleting empty folder and other stored programs.


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## bruce335

Crazydiamond said:


> Add me to the list - uggghhhh ! Had my new HD unit since december. This (freeze with audio) started a few weeks ago and is getting worse.
> 
> Will try hard reset and deleting empty folder and other stored programs.


Add me to the list as well. My freezing with audio for a couple of seconds started about 2 weeks ago as well and is also getting worse. Right now I have to reboot the system every other day. This is very frustrating.

Has anyone heard an update from TiVO on this issue and when it will be resolved? Thanks!


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## jim_h

Yeah me too. I've had the HD for about a month and the freezing began yesterday - video and audio. Rebooted and it's working again. I see this thread going boack months and no word from Tivo. Let's get the torches and pitchforks. 

I haven't read this whole thread - it's too long. But my first guess is that this starts happening once the hard drive gets significantly full, and if so a reformat might prevent it. Of course if you had to keep dumping everything on the hard drive, the Tivo wouldn't be worth much.


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## scola77

Add me to the list. I just purchased 2 HD TiVos and both are freezing up. I also rented a Cox DVR - works fine. I have only had these boxes for 4 days and started having the problems on day 2 (after the 9.3a update). 

If this issue is not fixed within the next 25 days or so (30 day return window), I will have to return both and canceling my service. I hate to do it, but the wife is already complaining and I don't want to be out 600 bucks or so on something that does not work as advertised.


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## filberttt

TivoHD freeze up in live or replay. In replay, going back to menu and then back to program gives 1-2 seconds more of audio and video before both freeze again.
In some cases of live play the audio continues while video freezes.
All other functions seem to work.


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## jim_h

Tivo is a funny company. You would think this would be a top priority problem, but apparently it just goes on a list. Now imagine that iPhones started "freezing" - Apple would be fighting a firestorm. But Tivo just sails on, untroubled. Of course, Tivo isn't making money so their situation is simpler ;-)


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## rocko

jim_h said:


> Tivo is a funny company. You would think this would be a top priority problem, but apparently it just goes on a list. Now imagine that iPhones started "freezing" - Apple would be fighting a firestorm. But Tivo just sails on, untroubled. Of course, Tivo isn't making money so their situation is simpler ;-)


This is a "funny" problem. By reading these threads you'd think that everyone had the problem when, in reality, most folks don't. The nature of these fora brings people with problems - you don't hear from happy, problem-free users.

TiVo takes the problem seriously - I have no doubt of that. This one happens to be a tough one to nail down, unfortunately.

I _would _tell you that I have no problem with either of my HD boxes but then I'd put the whammy on myself so I won't make that statement 

Call them and let them know you have the problem. It can't hurt to let them know.


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## jim_h

Rocco, I'm happy for you and thanks for sharing.

Ok then - let's pretend that just 10&#37; of iPhones started freezing. And Apple issues a statement saying, sorry nobody here reads user forums, and we don't take any action on a problem until enough customers sit in the phone queue for 20 minutes and report it to a support person who can't do anything to help them.


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## CallieBrady

The problem stopped for me. Do you think they have done some upgrading already?


----------



## beartrash

Okay, I had this happen with an original out of warranty TivoHD. I paid $49 to replace that unit.

My replacement unit was fine until it upgraded from 8.1 to 9.3a, now it's started to also become sluggish, then non-responsive, freeze then reboot when either cablecard is tuned to an HD channel.

This is incredibly annoying and I will probably not buy any new Tivo products in the future. Note, I've owned an original Phillips Tivo, a Humax DVD-R Tivo, a Series 2, a Series 3 and an HD Tivo.


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## steve614

jim_h said:


> Rocco, I'm happy for you and thanks for sharing.
> 
> Ok then - let's pretend that just 10% of iPhones started freezing. And Apple issues a statement saying, sorry nobody here reads user forums, and we don't take any action on a problem until enough customers sit in the phone queue for 20 minutes and report it to a support person who can't do anything to help them.


Yeah, IMHO I don't think calling support will help much, but you can add your name to "the list".
Tivo already knows of the problem, and have even asked in this thread for data.
Calling support will only get you the "reboot yada yada" spiel, most likely.


CallieBrady said:


> The problem stopped for me. Do you think they have done some upgrading already?


I wondered that myself as it has been a month since I've experienced a freeze...until today (edit...er, yesterday).


----------



## rocko

jim_h said:


> Rocco, I'm happy for you and thanks for sharing.
> 
> Ok then - let's pretend that just 10% of iPhones started freezing. And Apple issues a statement saying, sorry nobody here reads user forums, and we don't take any action on a problem until enough customers sit in the phone queue for 20 minutes and report it to a support person who can't do anything to help them.


Congratulations on totally missing the point. Sorry you're having problems.


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## jim_h

rocko, maybe I did misunderstand your point. One of the aggravating things about online forums is that when you post a problem, there are always people jumping in with "gee that doesn't happen for me, you must be doing something weird", which is not helpful. I mistakenly put you in that category.

But I can't believe this problem would be hard for Tivo to duplicate. Today I was at the home of a friend who also owns an HD. I asked him if it had started freezing yet (it's a couple months old) and he said "oh yeah". So my random sample of 2 HDs indicates that 100% of units will eventually exhibit this problem. Tivo should have no problem getting ahold of one.

I'm guessing that Tivo engineers already have a fix, but Tivo doesn't want to bother with frequent updates as problems are solved.


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## MrStoby

Well dang....add me to the list as well. I thought I might find a solution here, but there doesn't seem to be one. I have to reboot my TIVO series 3 at least once a week. It gets old. Do you think it's a cable card issue?
If there is a solution-- would someone let me know?


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## steve614

jim_h said:


> I'm guessing that Tivo engineers already have a fix, but Tivo doesn't want to bother with frequent updates as problems are solved.


Hopefully with the data they've gotten, Tivo knows what to address.
I'll bet that since a reboot fixes the problem, Tivo will just incorporate the fix into the next regular software update.
What is that -- 4 to 5 months away? 

ETA: and I would be OK with that. I would rather Tivo extensively test the fix to make sure it doesn't screw something else up.


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## jim_h

This thread is now 6 months old and Tivo engineers no doubt figured this out long ago. But Tivo's tightly controlled, "closed" system means every single customer has to be updated at once and if that update is broken, all he11 breaks lose. So their update cycle is incredibly long and even critical problems like this one fester for months on end.

Contrast this with Windows updates which are streamed out virtually every week. Individual users can decline updates or roll them back if they cause problems. 

Tivo has no way for an individual user to download, install or roll back patches. So it never gets patched.


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## bmgoodman

OK, add me to the list of users. Actually, it's a Tivo HD I set up for my mother on Saturday. This morning she calls to say it had frozen with blocks of colors all over the screen. (She had been out of town, so today was her first time turning it on! What a rude initiation!)

Anyway, I'm afraid the Tivo code base has grown beyond their ability to control. Funny how things have changed. I always used to like to be the first to get the new software version, now I'm afraid of it.

My S3 freezes up about once a week and finally restarts itself and is good again. This is *NOT* how Tivo used to be. Sadly, I used to justify the extra expense of Tivo by telling stories of how the "other" DVRs would lock up, reboot, fail to record, etc. My old units could go a year or so without a reboot. It seems that Tivo, in their rush to add new features, is moving backwards while the "others" may be catching up.

Let's hope the next update is focused solely on returning stability to the software.


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## Sheils

TiVo HD 10 days past the warranty! I not only had the freezing and rebooting issue, but the screen would go green (no error msg, just VERY green) and then some really ear-bleeding scratching / digital noise would start up. After speaking to a rep, and going through a few tests they agreed to do an exchange at no charge. So on Saturday, I shipped the old one back (sniff sniff). Saturday night, I started watching tv with the HD cable box from Time Warner. All of the HD channels keep cutting out and I have bright blue and green lines flashing in and out. And I saw a bit of the dreaded green as well. Re-booted the box several times, and even replaced the HDMI cable. No change! I'm wondering if a bad cable signal fried my TiVo? Have the cable company coming on Thursday. 

Hopefully, they won't have to come again to re-install the cable card. All that needs to be changed is the host code - supposedly can be done over the phone. Has anyone had any experience with that?


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## scsiguy72

MrStoby said:


> Well dang....add me to the list as well. I thought I might find a solution here, but there doesn't seem to be one. I have to reboot my TIVO series 3 at least once a week. It gets old. Do you think it's a cable card issue?
> If there is a solution-- would someone let me know?


Mine does the same thing and I am about a plain vanilla as you can get.

Stock Tivo HD No Cable Cards, No cable, OTA only. I have to reboot about once every other week, but have to switch channels to clear the problem about every 2-3 days


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## Sheils

When I spoke to the TiVo tech, he had never heard of it...that and the crazy noise...


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## BankZ

You can add me too...


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## jim_h

I see that one key to a successful tech support operation is turnover, so the new people know nothing about the old problems


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## bmgoodman

jim_h said:


> I see that one key to a successful tech support operation is turnover, so the new people know nothing about the old problems


LOL. Either that, or high people with poor memories.


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## dwit

bmgoodman said:


> LOL. Either that, or high people with poor memories.


"High" or *hire*?

I guess either one works. :up:


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## glinda58

I have had the hd about 2 weeks (had the old number 1 dial up kind, no problem for years). This reboots itself - for no reason, freezes, shows frames of motion that shouldn't do that kind of motion. Has endless problems with the two cable cards (it keeps showing no channel on certain channels - at times only half the channels will show up - only a reboot gets them back. (Comcast cable in NJ). We are getting two new cable cards installed tonight in case it is that. Tivo said, yes they heard of this complaint and are working on a software update, but have no idea when it will be ready. I bought from Tivo at the same time a 500 g external hard drive that I had to return to them (they told me they didn't do exchanges) because it wouldn't work (the woman at Tivo said they heard of that also). I bought from Amazon another hard drive (same kind) and it works, but of course, it really doesn't because the whole thing doesn't work. I have 2 weeks to decide whether or not to return it, which I am very tempted to do and to just use a Comcast DVR, which of course isn't Tivo, but it works (I have one in another room).


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## anonymous22

Add me to the list...

I have a very basic setup, basically out of the box:
Series 3 w/ Lifetime plan
Coax coming in
2 M-cards (Motorolla) from Comcast
Component Video
Digital Audio to Receiver
TiVo wireless adapter
No external devices, storage, etc.

I have a series 3, that I bought in Early February. I have had difficulties with Time Warner/Comcast of Houston on getting CableCards, but that was finally resolved and all had been working fine, until...

About 2 weeks ago (I believe), it started acting sluggish, slow to respond to the remote... in the last 4-5 days it has become unwatchable... reboots every 30 minutes and hardly ever makes it to the TiVo Central screen. If it does, it is sluggish, and will freeze if I try to go thru menus. I can watch about 4-5 minutes of LiveTv before it freezes... HD channels are worse than Standard. I was getting ready to replace the CableCards when I came on to the TiVo Community to see that it is a common issue. Unplugging the coax does prevent the unit from freezing, so I can watch saved shows, but I cannot record new ones or watch live tv (obviously) with the coax unplugged.

I called last night... waited 45 minutes to get a technician. Explained the problem. He was courteous and easy to work with, but explained that this is a "known issue" and that there are two different problems, one is a software problem that they are working on their end to solve, and the other is a hardware issue. He told me that my options were to take a refurbished unit, or I could buy a new one - but my lifetime would not be transferable. I told him that neither option was acceptable so he put me thru to a supervisor.

Supervisor was again very courteous. I was told that 1 out every 15 or 20 units seems to be experiencing difficulties. Everyone who calls in gets put on a list and it helps the technicians diagnose the problems and understand how rampant the problem is. He suggested to wait it out, because they are working on a new software update. He understood my position that I did not want a used/refurbished unit. I was told that I could not be supplied with a new one, because they were out of stock and would be for possibly another 4 months. He also said that my account would be noted and that TiVo was discussing internally what/how they would go about refunding/rebating/crediting people while service is down. I told him that I had 2 requests: 1) put a public statement out there stating that this is a known issue and that they are working on the problem, and 2) notify people what the status is on getting the issue fixed. He stated that had been discussed, but since they did not have a definitive answer as to what the problem was they did not want to issue a statement. I told him that at least stating that they are AWARE of a known issue would have saved me from being on the phone for 1.5 hours plus the time spent wasted researching online what was going on.

He told me to keep checking the TiVo Community and calling back to check status.


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## anonymous22

^ That's my post....

In reading thru the message board again it looks like there are multiple issues going on:

1) Video freezes (but audio, menus, everything else work) [I think this is the 777 - clear issue]
2) Unit freezes (no video, no audio, no menus... no functions at all) [I think this is the unplugged coax issue]
3) Unit restarts continuously

I fall into more of the #2 and #3 category... when my unit goes down (freezes) it is basically unusable and will go into a vicious rebooting cycle.

Does anyone else agree? can anyone confirm that these are the "known issues"? are they related?


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## MameMaster!

Add me to the list.

I set up my 750 gig Weaknees TivoHD using an 1 RCN M card in NYC.

Within my first 20 minutes I had these freezing issues. I had set up the Tivo the week prior and it was running 9.2. When I checked, yep-- the Tivo had already updated to 9.3a.

I have disconnected the HDMI cord for now and switched to component as I originally assumed it was some sort of HDMI handshake issue. So far it's working, but reading through this thread it appears as if that won't help.

Stephen has personally helped me in the past with a Pioneer Elite Tivo-- that had spontaneous reboots that issue was resolved after a few months.....yes, it took a few months.

Stephen...here's to hoping we see 9.4 in the next couple of weeks!!!!--- please.

Thanks.


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## moyekj

anonymous22 said:


> ^ That's my post....
> 
> In reading thru the message board again it looks like there are multiple issues going on:
> 
> 1) Video freezes (but audio, menus, everything else work) [I think this is the 777 - clear issue]
> 2) Unit freezes (no video, no audio, no menus... no functions at all) [I think this is the unplugged coax issue]
> 3) Unit restarts continuously
> 
> I fall into more of the #2 and #3 category... when my unit goes down (freezes) it is basically unusable and will go into a vicious rebooting cycle.
> 
> Does anyone else agree? can anyone confirm that these are the "known issues"? are they related?


 Symptoms are similar for all 3 which is why many of the problems are getting lumped together. I think #2, #3 are related to either a failing hard drive or corrupted software - which can be solved by replacing internal drive. #1 is the more mysterious one that Tivo apparently cannot easily reproduce and seems to be decoder related and specific to certain headends (not everyone has the problem). If I were having issues such as #2, #3 I would try replacing internal drive. For #1 unfortunately I don't think there's anything you can do yourself to solve the problem and you have to wait on Tivo for a fix.


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## anonymous22

moyekj said:


> Symptoms are similar for all 3 which is why many of the problems are getting lumped together. I think #2, #3 are related to either a failing hard drive or corrupted software - which can be solved by replacing internal drive. #1 is the more mysterious one that Tivo apparently cannot easily reproduce and seems to be decoder related and specific to certain headends (not everyone has the problem). If I were having issues such as #2, #3 I would try replacing internal drive. For #1 unfortunately I don't think there's anything you can do yourself to solve the problem and you have to wait on Tivo for a fix.


Thanks, Moyekj...

I guess I keep holding out hope that probs #2 and #3 are software related and/or somewhat related to problem #1 since the unit seems to perform fine with the Coax unplugged.


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## cleverdevil

This freezing issue has been happening to me for a few weeks now, and its getting progressively worse. Its quite irritating, and I simply cannot see how it can possibly be a purely hardware-related issue, given that it is happening to so many people.

It's likely a software issue, and I really hope that they can track it down and fix it *soon* because its bothering me pretty heavily at this point.


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## dalesd

Add me to the list too. 
TiVoHD, 9.3a, 750GB internal drive, HDMI output.
My THD mysteriously switched from Native to 1080i fixed, but that looks a lot better for 480i programming, so I'm keeping it like that for the time being. (Oh how I wish there was a setting that would do everything at 1080i except leave 720p at 720p, but I digress.)

This started shortly after getting two S-cards from Verizon FiOS. It never happened in several months of OTA only with 9.3a.

It has only happened a few times in the last few weeks. I have never seen it with live tv, but I hardly ever watch live tv. It has only happened when playing back recorded programs. It happens just a few seconds in to playback. I haven't checked if the menu animations still work. (I suspect they do.)

The first and second times it happened it was on programs recorded from FiOS. Programs recorded OTA and transferred with PyTiVo still played back. I was starting to form a hypothesis that the cable cards were somehow to blame, but the most recent time it happened (on a FiOS program) my OTA and PyTivo programs wouldn't play either.

A reboot has always fixed things for at least several days to a week or more.


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## reefboy

we have a series 3 HD, an early one (yes, I spent $900 or whatever) - comcast cable via two cable cards. two or three weeks ago playback starting "sticking". a week or so ago, menus started to get slow. yesterday it started resetting, and it's now completely hosed - on reset gets to Tivo Central and just freezes, then resets, sometimes Tivo Central comes up in funny colors etc.

a sad call with tech support last night. I waited 45 mins to get a tech, who took 10 minutes to ask around (put me on hold again), and then came back and said:

1. yes, it's a known issue.

2. no, they couldnt send a replacement unit coz the replacement unit will likely show the same problems eventually.

3. they are working on it, but dont have any date for a fix. nothing.

4. if I wanted to, I could be transferred to customer support (this after over an hour on the phone) so I could suspend my service.

I pointed out, as kindly as I could, that this is their company going bye-bye. So maybe they could have a sense of urgency about it, perhaps he could relay the information up the chain of command at their next tech support meeting... he rather mournfully said that, yes, he will try that.

meanwhile, this morning I'm off to the comcast store to get a DVR which will cost less (nothing to buy or install, $13.95 a mo to run) and probably work. much as I dislike their interface and the fact that it only takes one cable signal.

I've had Tivos since they first came out. I loved their design - still do. but, you know, it's just TV in the end - and a TV just has to work when you switch it on...

oh well.

Joe


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## jkalnin

I haven't read this entire thread, but my TivoHD just started freezing recently. Not like this is my first issue, it also has audio glitches now and then, restarts itself occasionally, and it seems like I need to restart it every month to fix some issue.

Tivo is lucky I remember all the good times we had together back in the S2 days. If my only experience with Tivo was based on my TivoHD, well let's just say so far I am less then impressed.


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## woodburger

It was okay for about two weeks - I was hoping they had updated the programming of the box - but just today again the picture froze again (live TV.) In the past this also meant nothing would play if recorded... (but all seems to work after a reboot.)

This sure takes the trust out of watching TiVo. I agree with someone above - they should post the problem as known and keep a progress report alive.

Do you think it could be some wild codes from another remote confusing the box?


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## dubluv

i've had occasional, as in once a week more or less, system freezing, but it does NOT reboot on it own. if left alone, i can usually come back and it will be ok after 20 or 30 minutes. i can usually get the rewind bar to appear by pressing the button on the remote, but it will freeze again at the most recent frame. repeatedly backing up a minute to two, will often get the thing back to normal. i do have a dvr expander connected to this tivoHD.


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## DUSlider

Just like to add....

Where initially I just had the problem with live TV. Now I am having it with recorded shows as well... Restart fixes it for awhile.


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## datasound

Tonight my S3 has been the worst I have seen it as this problem has been getting worse and worse over the las 4 weeks. It isn't even responding to remote commands (yes, the batteries are fine!). It has rebooted 3 times on me in the last 2 hours and when it comes back it freezes almost right away. If I disconnect the coax cable it works perfectly (Except I get no channels of course).

I have been reading these treads and TIVO's response is very unacceptable to their user community. Why can't we roll back the software one release rather than waiting some mystery amount of time (now in weeks) for them to figure out a fix?

Thank you for listing, I'm extremely frustrated.


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## MameMaster!

So far I've had a few days straight of a working HD Tivo....I had rebooted about 5 days ago and since switched to component.

Does anyone experience this freeze issue with component?

....me thinks it will be only a matter of time before I have to reboot though based on the tone of this thread.

I too love my Tivo...but totally agree...their "customer service" really sucks when it comes to us hardcore/"power" users of their products.

I find it really insulting when cust services acts like they're unaware of the situation. If that's the case--- MAKE SURE YOU BLAST EMAIL THE ISSUE TO EVERYONE THAT TAKE CALLS!!!....seems obvious to me.


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## BobB

Dang! I hadn't had a freezeup for almost two weeks so I was starting to think maybe it was cured - no such luck. Froze again last night. I can't believe they would let this drag on so long. 

Has there been any word from our friendly TiVo rep on this board since he asked people to punch in the 777 code a few weeks ago?


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## leibniz

add me to the list - my symptoms were exactly like everyone else's: once the problem started, playback of any program (live or prerecorded) would freeze, while audio would continue for a bit. while frozen, any shows recording would record fine, and after reboot the system would operate normally.

I called tech support after this started happening regularly and they were very kind and courteous - they immediately offered to replace the unit (it was there the next day). Hopefully the new unit won't suffer the same fate. ;-) 

Last night, though, it spontaneously rebooted in the middle of recording a program; on restart it said it was installing a service update (which took about 15 minutes), after which it again restarted. I was disappointed because I was recording two shows when it restarted. 

oh well, i'm hoping things will improve. it's a great product otherwise.


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## Langree

BobB said:


> Dang! I hadn't had a freezeup for almost two weeks so I was starting to think maybe it was cured - no such luck. Froze again last night. I can't believe they would let this drag on so long.


Ya, because you know they aren't actually working on it, they just like to watch us suffer.



An error you cannot repeat on demand is hard to track, we all have different setups too, and finding the commonality is a major thing.


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## jim_h

It's astounding that months after this was first reported, Tivo still has no fix, no promise of a fix, no workaround to offer users, and their phone pit doesn't even have a statement to read to us. Would it be so risky, or so difficult, to have someone at Tivo simply post a candid explanation on this forum? 

I hope I'm wrong, but this sounds like a company on life support.


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## imacericg

I am surprised this hasn't been fixed either. We are averaging 2 reboots a day. Last night I thought to myself "Maybe we should get cable's DVR". I have been with tivo for 5 years and I can't believe that thought popped in my head over this freezing bug.


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## TiVoJerry

Hello all,

I know it seems we've been quiet but we've been watching this thread intensely and trying to gather as much information as we can. Keep in mind that while this thread was first opened in November, the second post was made in February, and the second page didn't start until April. Engineering started investigating but, as luck would have it, we have been unable to reproduce the issue in the lab. We have increased our pool of testers to capture more details and log information as a result, but it takes time to correlate data from multiple units and try to find a pattern or cause.

TiVoStephen has been collecting data for me while I was travelling. The responses sent to him were helpful to the investigation, but we still need more.

I visited a customer's house on Monday of this week with an engineer and some equipment. The customer said the problem was not resolved with a reboot for more than a few minutes. I had high hopes we'd gotten a strong candidate for hands-on testing. Sure enough, when we restarted the unit the problem did not happen again&#8230;.and has not returned this entire week. I am posting now in the hopes of collecting more information.

*What had I done differently than the customer?*
1> I'd pulled the power cord to restart. He'd only restarted from the menu.
2> I'd disconnected all cables (power, RF, HDMI, Ethernet) from the back because I thought I was going to take the unit back to the office.
3> I'd left the RF cable disconnected during restart (It was still connected to our equipment.) and reconnected it after startup was complete.
I can't be certain why any of these steps might've helped, but am hoping several of you will try them and report your results.

In order to collect more data, let me summarize the symptoms we are looking at *in this thread*:
We're looking for information specifically on HD units which appear to be stuck displaying a still frame of video - but the banner, guide, and all menus are accessible. 
If it's not possible to display the guide, channel banner, etc then this is most likely a different issue; and a reboot may resolve the problem.
Fast Forward will appear to work normally but pressing Play will display a single frame of video.
Some people report that the image updates on occasion.
Audio may or may not be playing.
A reboot seems to resolve the issue temporarily.

Does this sum it up about right? Please correct me if not.

*If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

We recognize that this is a problem for a number of you and are focused on finding a solution. The more information we can get from the field, the better.

Thank you for your continued patience. I have been travelling a great deal in recent weeks as we bring additional call centers online, and appreciate the assist from Stephen during this time.


----------



## steve614

TiVoJerry said:


> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)


652


> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?


I'm using composite (yes, R/W/Y) output to a 4:3 TV with optical audio to a receiver.


> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?


480i fixed, 4:3, full panel.


> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?


I think this has happened to me only 4 times since the software update.
Between 1st and 2nd occurrence was 2 weeks. Before last weekends occurrence, no problems for 4 to 5 weeks.


> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?


Restarting from menu.


> 6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


Last occurrence started with a video I had initially transferred to computer, edited with VideoReDo TVS, and transferred back to Tivo using pyTivo.
Starting that video from the beginning would result in the freeze, but I could use 30 sec skip, and have no problems from the rest of the video.
The problem eventually migrated to Live TV first affecting 1 digital channel, then two. The freeze did not happen to all of the digital channels and none of the analog channels seemed to be affected.
That's about as far as I got before I couldn't stand it anymore and rebooted.
Just in case it would help, I did do the 777 clear and two manual calls to the mothership before I rebooted.
On a prior occasion, all channels (digital and analog) and saved videos have been affected.


----------



## mostman

TiVoJerry said:


> Hello all,
> 
> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
> 6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


Sums up my experience exactly. Here are my answers:

1) 652
2) HDMI
3) Aspect is full - ratio is 16:9 - output is native
4) 12-18 hours - like clockwork
5) menu
6) only been present once - it starts off with severe stuttering - then freezes the video - then a couple seconds later - the audio goes

One more nugget of information. I am using a single M card - dual tuner. On the second tuner - I get a TON of RS corrections. I mean a TON - probably 200 a second. My signal is pure and is 100 percent - so I've never understood this. I've observed that the issue happens much faster when something is recording on this tuner. Perhaps related?

-Mike


----------



## Tom White

TiVoJerry said:


> ...we have been unable to reproduce the issue in the lab.
> 
> I visited a customers house on Monday of this week with an engineer and some equipment.
> 
> I had high hopes wed gotten a strong candidate for hands-on testing.


Based on some parts of your post, I have some questions for you.

I see you have not been able to "reproduce the issue in the lab".

Have any of your tech or support people simply taken home a Tivo that was returned to you due to having these problems?

It would seem taking a returned/defective unit home and living with it for a week...or two weeks....would be appropriate.

Why go to a customer's home for "hands on testing"?

Again, you should have enough returned units by now to test until who knows when.

Why in the world can Tivo simply not just roll-back the software version to a known working version?

Yeah, it would take some time, but you might stand a better chance of keeping your customers. By doing this Tivo might also be relieved of issuing numerous credits that are eating into the income stream.

Has nobody at Tivo had these problems with their own machines?


----------



## moyekj

Tom White said:


> Have any of your tech or support people simply taken home a Tivo that was returned to you due to having these problems?
> 
> It would seem taking a returned/defective unit home and living with it for a week...or two weeks....would be appropriate.


 It's pretty apparent that the problem is very headend or perhaps even household specific, otherwise everybody would be having this issue (and yes there are many that do not have this issue). i.e. A returned "defective" unit may work perfectly fine in another headend/household.
So Tivo engineers taking units to their homes wouldn't help in that scenario and also may explain why it can't be reproduced at their lab.


----------



## RichB

TiVoJerry said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I know it seems weve been quiet but weve been watching this thread intensely and trying to gather as much information as we can. Keep in mind that while this thread was first opened in November, the second post was made in February, and the second page didnt start until April. Engineering started investigating but, as luck would have it, we have been unable to reproduce the issue in the lab. We have increased our pool of testers to capture more details and log information as a result, but it takes time to correlate data from multiple units and try to find a pattern or cause.
> 
> TiVoStephen has been collecting data for me while I was travelling. The responses sent to him were helpful to the investigation, but we still need more.
> 
> I visited a customers house on Monday of this week with an engineer and some equipment. The customer said the problem was not resolved with a reboot for more than a few minutes. I had high hopes wed gotten a strong candidate for hands-on testing. Sure enough, when we restarted the unit the problem did not happen again.and has not returned this entire week. I am posting now in the hopes of collecting more information.
> 
> *What had I done differently than the customer?*
> 1> Id pulled the power cord to restart. Hed only restarted from the menu.
> 2> Id disconnected all cables (power, RF, HDMI, Ethernet) from the back because I thought I was going to take the unit back to the office.
> 3> Id left the RF cable disconnected during restart (It was still connected to our equipment.) and reconnected it after startup was complete.
> I cant be certain why any of these steps mightve helped, but am hoping several of you will try them and report your results.
> 
> In order to collect more data, let me summarize the symptoms we are looking at *in this thread*:
> Were looking for information specifically on HD units which appear to be stuck displaying a still frame of video - but the banner, guide, and all menus are accessible.
> If its not possible to display the guide, channel banner, etc then this is most likely a different issue; and a reboot may resolve the problem.
> Fast Forward will appear to work normally but pressing Play will display a single frame of video.
> Some people report that the image updates on occasion.
> Audio may or may not be playing.
> A reboot seems to resolve the issue temporarily.
> 
> Does this sum it up about right? Please correct me if not.


My TiVo HD is freezing with menu, ff, rw, all locked up. It sometime reboots. Rebooting with COAX not connected makes no difference.

Rebooting makes no difference.

It happend on specific channels. Once recorded, the recoding fail at the same places.

Any suggestions?

- Rich


----------



## steve614

Tom White said:


> Based on some parts of your post, I have some questions for you.
> 
> I see you have not been able to "reproduce the issue in the lab".
> 
> Have any of your tech or support people simply taken home a Tivo that was returned to you due to having these problems?
> 
> It would seem taking a returned/defective unit home and living with it for a week...or two weeks....would be appropriate.
> 
> Why go to a customer's home for "hands on testing"?
> 
> Again, you should have enough returned units by now to test until who knows when.
> 
> Why in the world can Tivo simply not just roll-back the software version to a known working version?
> 
> Yeah, it would take some time, but you might stand a better chance of keeping your customers. By doing this Tivo might also be relieved of issuing numerous credits that are eating into the income stream.


I would add: Are the *lab* Tivos being used to their full potential (i.e. downloading TivoCasts, Transferring stuff to/from a computer, using 3rd party apps like pyTivo, etc.)?


> Has nobody at Tivo had these problems with their own machines?


Don't you know?
They build their own Tivos using only the finest/fastest parts available.


----------



## Fkchgo

same problem.. wife went thru a run around a few times. TIVO tried to throw Comcast under the bus, when they knew it was not their problem.

Bet we wont get any results until someone organizes us to sue TIVO. Anyone know an aggressive lawyer willling to take this on?


----------



## crusin_x1

> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)


: 652


> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?


: HDMI


> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?


:FULL; 16:9; NATIVE


> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?


: For me, very random, maybe once a day, maybe once a week.


> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?


: menu


> 6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


: Yes, every time it's happened to me I have been using it. Most of the time the video will freeze right when I start the recored show, but not always, sometimes I have seen it in the middle of the show too. As disribed, I can FF and RW, but not play. All menues work. When it happens I usauly can't watch live TV eather untill after the resrart.

I'm using one MS cable card with Bright House cable in FL. In the last few of weeks it seems to be happening less...???

I too had been doing the 777 Clear thing until TiVoStephen said that he had enough info.


----------



## Langree

Fkchgo said:


> same problem.. wife went thru a run around a few times. TIVO tried to throw Comcast under the bus, when they knew it was not their problem.
> 
> Bet we wont get any results until someone organizes us to sue TIVO. Anyone know an aggressive lawyer willling to take this on?


----------



## telandra

1> 652
2> HDMI
3> Panel, 16:9, 1080i fixed, smoothing off
4> Seems to pop up more often when the HD starts to get fuller. Full drive -- a day. Near empty drive -- weeks. My drive says as empty as I can keep it.
5> Menu, but it has had some power restarts while the issue exists.
6> Watching live HD or SD channel. Watching HD or SD playback. The free drive space mentioned above is the only semi-consistant thing I've noticed -- having things in the delete directory still counts as non-free space. I've been halfway through a program when it froze, I've watched something and gone back to re-watch it and its freezes. I've watched live TV, watched a recording, then gone back to live TV and the live freezes. I've watched recordings when the live TV is frozen. Most freezes play for a few seconds (it may stutter a bit), then the video stops, then the audio. Skip/rewind works, plays a few seconds as described. Menus work fine. Also, I am an OTA user -- so I knows its not a cable card issue .


----------



## jim_h

1. 652
2. HDMI
3. Panel, 16:9, 1080i fixed
4. After a reboot, it hasn't happened again for about a week.
5. Rebooted from menu

I'd just switched to live TV. Got a few seconds of picture, then froze. Tried another channel, got another few seconds of video, froze again. Repeated on several channels, then rebooted. 

We have no cable, just OTA.

If there's any other useful information I could gather, feel free to PM or email. I'm a software developer, unfortunately not a Linux guy, but I'm happy to help if there's some test or experiment I could perform.


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## datasound

firstly, thank you TIVO for getting involved in this thread. Until now it has felt like screaming for help in the middle of the desert.

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
answer 649

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
answer component

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Panel, 4:3 Classic Screen, 1080i Hybrid
By the way, it is interesting that you ask about this one because it seems like I was experimenting with these options about 5 weeks ago and then my problems started.

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
immediate EVERY TIME!

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
have tried BOTH numerous times.

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

I am experiencing MAJOR symptoms of everything described in these threads. Freezing for 10 to 60 seconds on ANY and EVERY menu. Clicking pause and it won't pause for many minutes,,,, but it final pauses. Hit GUIDE and it is 50/50 as to whether I ever see it. Also, now problem in the last few days. The orange LED that flashes when you hit a button on the remote has started to often not even show that it gets a signal (yes, the batteries are OK in the remote). Also, if my coax is connect and either of the tuners is on an HD channel then it's all over The TIVO is virtually completely HUNG and not responsive in anyway. Walk over and unplug the coax and TIVO springs to life. Change the channels to (2) non-HD channels, reconnect the coax and and TIVO is somewhat usable, but still not normal.

By the way, I own (3) TIVOs The problem S3 is an early box from November 2006. It has (2) cables cards in it. My other S3 uses just basic cable (no cable cards) and it works fine. My other S2-Toshiba works fine.


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## datasound

Hi All, I have been avoiding trying this because it is a big undertaking, but has anyone tried the CLEAR and DELETE EVERYTHING command and started from scratch to see if the problems go away? I think I might try it but if other people have found that it does not help then I really don't want to spend a whole day doing this. Reloading from scratch and re-entering my wishlists and season passes and everything else will take the better part of a day. 

Thanks


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## bengalfreak

Fkchgo said:


> same problem.. wife went thru a run around a few times. TIVO tried to throw Comcast under the bus, when they knew it was not their problem.
> 
> Bet we wont get any results until someone organizes us to sue TIVO. Anyone know an aggressive lawyer willling to take this on?


Wow, now there is a quality first post. Thanks for helping the situation not one bit. Sheesh.


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## jonhoffm

TiVoJerry said:


> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


1> 652
2> Was using HDMI to AV Receiver, switched to component - see below
3> ACM - Full, TV Aspect - 16:9, Output format - Native
4> Problem has not yet returned after restart 2 weeks ago - see below
5> Unplugging
6> Yes. Video would freeze [seemingly] randomly while watching live broadcasts or previously recorded material. Initially, only at first when changing channels or initiating playback; however, it quickly became more pervasive at up to 4 to 5 times per 1/2 hour. Audio would not continue after video freeze. Generally, skip back would resolve the issue except immediately prior to reset.

Additional info -
- Using WD DVR Extender
- My initial setup was HDMI out to a Vizio LCD. Output format set to Native resulted in no problems. Subsequently changed setup (within 2 weeks) to HDMI out to a Yamaha RX-V863 AV Receiver. Something in this setup would cause the TivoHD to change the output format from Native to 720p fixed even though the Yamaha and TV are compatible with all output formats. I could change the output format back to Native and that would stay for awhile before changing back to 720p fixed. I could not diagnose the cause of the change. I addressed the HDMI problem at the same time I reset the TivoHD due to the video freeze issue by switching to component video.

It has been about 2 weeks since the reset and I have not yet experienced additional video problems.


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## Roderigo

datasound said:


> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> answer 649


I assume this is a typo, and it's really 648.



datasound said:


> I am experiencing MAJOR symptoms of everything described in these threads. Freezing for 10 to 60 seconds on ANY and EVERY menu. Clicking pause and it won't pause for many minutes,,,, but it final pauses. Hit GUIDE and it is 50/50 as to whether I ever see it. Also, now problem in the last few days. The orange LED that flashes when you hit a button on the remote has started to often not even show that it gets a signal (yes, the batteries are OK in the remote). Also, if my coax is connect and either of the tuners is on an HD channel then it's all over The TIVO is virtually completely HUNG and not responsive in anyway. Walk over and unplug the coax and TIVO springs to life. Change the channels to (2) non-HD channels, reconnect the coax and and TIVO is somewhat usable, but still not normal.


I know you're frustrated, I certainly would be in this case, but these symptoms are *NOT* what TivoJerry said he's looking for in this thread:



TiVoJerry said:


> Were looking for information specifically on HD units which appear to be stuck displaying a still frame of video - *but the banner, guide, and all menus are accessible. *


Since you whole box is unusable, something else must be going on. From your description, certainly sounds like a case of hard drive failure to me, and nothing a tivo software update will be able to fix.


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## Phantom Gremlin

moyekj said:


> It's pretty apparent that the problem is very headend or perhaps even household specific, otherwise everybody would be having this issue (and yes there are many that do not have this issue). i.e. A returned "defective" unit may work perfectly fine in another headend/household.


I urge everyone to put their city and state into their profile. That way we can at least get an idea of whether the problem is widely scattered or whether it clusters in certain geographic areas or cable systems.

My gut feel is that the problem is very widespread, but the frequency of occurrence varies a lot. For example, I've only had this particular problem twice.


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## zerogee00

Hope these answers help:



TiVoJerry said:


> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)


652


TiVoJerry said:


> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?


HDMI


TiVoJerry said:


> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?


Correction Mode: Full; Aspect: 16:9 Widescreen; Mode: Native


TiVoJerry said:


> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?


From my own log:
May 26th tivo freezing.... 
Reboot cleared.

May 30 tivo freezing...
Reboot cleared. (Also did 777 clear - two connections)

June 5th freezing...
HD Also
Reboot Cleared.

June 13rd freezing... HD & SD
reboot fixed


TiVoJerry said:


> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?


By Menu


TiVoJerry said:


> 6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


I've never actually seen it freeze.

Thanks

David


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## cleverdevil

So, I am one of the people experiencing this problem. My menus are always completely funcitonal, its only an issue when actually watching programs, live or recorded. A reboot does temporarily solves the problem, but it always comes back, and then gets worse and worse until its unbearable. Here are my answers to the questions asked by TiVo (thanks for getting involved, I really appreciate it!):

1. 652
2. HDMI
3. "Full" aspect correction mode, "16:9 Widescreen" aspect ratio, and "Native" video output format. I have also used "1080i Fixed" output format and experienced the problem.
4. Honestly, I don't remember how long it takes after I reboot. I've only been experiencing this problem for a few weeks now, to varying degrees. I'll try and keep a journal and follow up on this later!
5. I always restart from the menu.
6. When I experience the problem, it usually happens just like this:
* I will be watching a program (live or recorded, doesn't matter), and suddenly the image will freeze, sometimes the audio will continue for a few seconds before also freezing.
* Many times the freeze will happen immediately when I switch to a channel, and in my experience, when this happens, its almost impossible to watch that channel without freezes happening constantly. If I switch to a channel when watching Live TV and it *doesn't* freeze right away, I usually seem to be able to watch the program without freezes. The same is true when I "start" watching a recorded program: if it freezes immediately when starting to play the program, its going to have the freezing problem throughout. If not, I might be able to watch it.
* When the "freezing" issue occurs before it gets really bad, I can usually continue watching the program by rewinding or fast forwarding a little bit and then resuming, but this doesn't work very well as it continues to freeze in increasing frequency until its difficult to watch at all.

Thanks for taking an interest in the problem. I'd be delighted to answer any further questions you have, even on the phone. Feel free to PM me and I will spend an hour on the phone with you doing whatever you like to get the data you need to solve the problem. I write software, so I understand that its nearly impossible to resolve a problem until you can reproduce it, or at the very least collect enough data to understand the problem!

As a company, TiVo has been a pleasure for me to interact with for many years, and while this issue is very frustrating, and makes it difficult to enjoy my TiVo HD, I have full faith in your excellent engineers that they will identify and resolve the problem as quickly as is humanly possible.


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## jim_h

I second cleverdevil's comments. Tivo is a big part of our life. I'm also a software guy and willing to do whatever it takes to solve this. If Tivo wants to SSH into my system while it's failing, or install a patch, or FTP some log files, I can open my firewall, set up port forwarding or whatever is necessary.

It isn't exhibiting the problem right now, though. A reboot fixed it for now. But I sure don't want to end up like other users that are now rebooting twice a day.


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## tbb1226

TiVoJerry said:


> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)


652



> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?


component



> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?


Panel, 16:9 WS, 1080i Fixed



> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?


see answer to #5



> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?


Originally was using the menu reboot, and the problem would return within a day or two. The most recent time, I unplugged the unit for a few minutes and the issue has been absent for over two weeks.



> 6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


The only other seemingly significant detail I can add is that, for me, even when the problem was in full evidence, it would not apply to all channels of live TV. All of the SD digital channels and many of the HD channels would experience freeze as described above, but a select few HD channels would actually be viewable without issue.

When tuning to one of the affected channels, each time I'd see a few frames of video before the freeze would happen, and audio would continue for a few minutes or so before going silent.

Sources: Comcast, South Oakland County, MI and OTA
CableCard: M-Type


----------



## KariInWonderland

I have also been experiencing this problem randomly for months now on my Tivo HD. I cannot find any pattern to when it happens...every once in a while while either switching channels or switching from live to recorded show or from a recorded show to live, it freezes. I always still have audio playing, the menus seem fine, trying to switch to a recorded show doesn't stop the freezing, but a reset seems to do a temporary fix.

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Aspect Correction: panel
TV aspect ratio: 16:9 widescreen
Video Output Format: Hybrid

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
Have not yet figured out a pattern...usually weeks or months

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Have tried both

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
When switching channels or switching from recorded to live tv, it appears normal for a second or 2, then the video freezes while the audio continues.


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## DUSlider

*1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)*

652

*2> Are you using HDMI or component video?*

HDMI

*3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?*

Full, 16:9, native

*4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?*

Varies, sometimes a couple of days, sometimes a couple of weeks.

*5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?*

Menu

*6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.*

Seems to usually happen after changing a channel. Sometimes Video stutters while audio continues without issue. I can fix this by pausing and playing, then going back to live tv. This progresses eventually to full video freeze with audio following it. For me it mostly happens on live tv, rarely recorded. Seems to happen with all HD content, haven't tried switching to an analog channel. Sometimes if I change tuners it will go away. (I have one M card, Comcast in southeast PA. Sometimes it will freeze on some channels and not others, but will freeze completely eventually. Menu's work fine throughout.

I have upgraded my internal hard drive to 1TB. However I did this long before the software update and had no issues prior.


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## cleverdevil

I restarted via the menu yesterday around noon, and when I woke up this morning, the freezing had started again. I just unplugged the unit, and will leave it unplugged for a few minutes before starting it back up again in the hopes that this will resolve my problem...

This is starting to get really frustrating :/


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## jesseg

1. 652
2. HDMI
3. Panel, 16:9, native
4. usually a few days or even a week. it may be coincidental, but it seems to be happening more frequently since i got a WD expander a couple weeks ago.
5. restarting from menu
6. i can't recall ever seeing it when it began freezing. when it is happening, it affects both live and recorded shows. they'll play for a couple seconds, then video will freeze and audio will continue for a couple more seconds before stopping.


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## NigelTufnel

1) 648
2) HDMI
3) Panel/16:9/Native
4) not sure how soon after restart the problems occur since i have a new unit and so far i have not had to restart often. when it happens, i usually just put some other recorded show on. (I at first assumed it was a glitchy recording rather than a pervasive software bug and approached the problem accordingly)
6) video goes from motion to freeze frame without any intervention on my part, not correllated with a keypress. I find I am generally able to ff or rw beyond the point at which it sticks. But, if I try to go back and re-watch the glitched portion, it happens again at exactly the same point in the program. Also, while I am ff or rewinding, I notice that it will "seek" directly past the glitchy portion, skipping 1 or 2 entire minutes. Menus are still accessible.

In my case, this freeze-frame stuff is associated with particular recordings. I just restored a deleted recording of the BBC World News in which I am able to reproduce the freeze-frame every single time at the same point.

As others have mentioned, the audio continues playing just fine.

Also: In NYC-11201, Time Warner Cable with 2 CableCards.


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## arosenbe

Interstingly, I have two Tivos, purchased at the same time (directly from Tivo), set up exactly the same way (on the same day), and I am having the problem only with one of them. That said, here are the answers to the questions

*1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)*
652

*2> Are you using HDMI or component video?*
HDMI

*3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?*
Aspect correction: Zoom, mostly
TV aspect ratio 16:9 Widescreen
Video Output Forman: 1080i Fixed

*4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?*
Varies from less than an hour to 2-3 days

*5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?*
I have done both, although more frequently via the menu

*6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on. *
More often than not it happens at the beginning when we're watching a show, although not always.


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## moyekj

arosenbe said:


> Interstingly, I have two Tivos, purchased at the same time (directly from Tivo), set up exactly the same way (on the same day), and I am having the problem only with one of them. That said, here are the answers to the questions


 A valuable experiment would be to see if you can swap locations of both your Tivos to see if the problem follows the Tivo or if the problem stays with location. If it stays with location then this would imply that the particular cable signal feed is the culprit. That could be a gem of information for Tivo.


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## mzdesigns

I had the same problem for a couple of months. Video freezing and audio continuing for 3 seconds and then stopping. Tried soft and hard rebooting a million times. Would fix the problem for a few days and then do the same thing again. Then all of a sudden it stopped messing up and now all is well. Don't get it.

In Virginia using Comcast with HDMI and Aspect Correction Mode. TCD is 652.


----------



## kwolfe

First, thanks for following up, this problem has been happening to me for the last 2 months or so and is also happening to my parents. They live is Los Angeles, and I leave near Seattle.



TiVoJerry said:


> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)


652



TiVoJerry said:


> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?


Component



TiVoJerry said:


> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?


Full, 16:9 Widescreen, Native



TiVoJerry said:


> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?


Seems like between 1-2 weeks.



TiVoJerry said:


> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?


From the menu, always.



TiVoJerry said:


> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


Here is what I recall from the second time that it happened. We were getting some skipping, so the video would jump from spot to spot. Almost like it is jumping from "I" frame to "I" frame. Fast forwarding would restart the show, at least for a short period of time, then it would freeze again. It also seemed like it would first happen to the Live TV and then later to recorded shows. All of our recorded shows would record fine and playback (after reboot) fine. I think it may have affected 1 tuner and not the other (at first), although this may be a red herring.


----------



## CallieBrady

Thanks for following up.

The problem suddenly stopped. I actually came back here to see if some code had been downloaded. So after a month or more of the issue and having to restart regularly, after a common restart (unplug power cord) it just stopped. It's been more than 3 weeks now with no issues at all.

We did nothing different. It made me wonder if this is related to the cable companies at all?


----------



## RavenFan

1> 652
2> HDMI
3> Panel, 16:9, 1080i Fixed
4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
Sometimes days, sometimes hours. I had to restart today at 11AM, returned home and it was frozen again by 8:50PM. No amount of FF or Skip-back helped. This has been happening on and off for me for months with seemingly increasing frequency. I restart at least twice per week now.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Mostly from menu. Today I restarted by unplugging. Same results.

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


----------



## swilcox

TiVoJerry said:


> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)


652



> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?


HDMI



> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?


ACM: Panel
Aspect ratio: 16:9
video output: Native



> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?


Seems variable. Usually more than a week.



> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?


I've only ever restarted from the menu.



> 6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


I believe I saw the video go from fluid to frozen once. I was watching and noticed that the audio/video sync got pretty bad. I tried pausing/playing a few times, going to the TiVo Central menu, etc., thinking this might fix it. It didn't. Soon after the video just froze.

I was recording something that I really wanted (I was watching it at the same time). It was about 10 minutes before the end of the program, so instead of restarting I just let it go -- the red record light was on, so I figured what the heck, it might still be recording. Once the program ended, I did a restart (menu).

After the Tivo restarted, I checked my recordings and sure enough, it had recorded the entire program, with no problems. I was able to view the entire program, through the part that was frozen while I was watching it. So this seems to be a playback problem, no?

FWIW.


----------



## joea789

TiVoJerry said:


> *What had I done differently than the customer?*
> 1> Id pulled the power cord to restart. Hed only restarted from the menu.
> 2> Id disconnected all cables (power, RF, HDMI, Ethernet) from the back because I thought I was going to take the unit back to the office.
> 3> Id left the RF cable disconnected during restart (It was still connected to our equipment.) and reconnected it after startup was complete.
> I cant be certain why any of these steps mightve helped, but am hoping several of you will try them and report your results.
> 
> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


1-652
2-HDMI
3-Panel 16:9 Native
4-Currently within 5-30 minutes
5-Pull power plug and let system sit for 45-300 or more seconds
6-Long story: About 3 weeks or so ago, TivoHD would freeze while watching recorded TV, possibly live too. Sometimes I would switch the TV on to find a frozen screen, which should be live TV since no one was watching. The first indication I noticed is that the yellow IR activity light would be stuck on, that's how I knew I'd need to pull the power cable. 
Over time, this problem grew to a self-rebooting Tivo. Possibly around the same time that this problem developed, I noticed that I'd switch to live TV and would notice a stuttering problem that I'd fix by hitting instant reply, or by pausing for a couple seconds.
Currently the problem makes the Tivo unusable. It has started rebooting as if overly sensitive to remote commands. Meaning that hitting the Tivo button will sometimes cause a reboot (I've grown to hate that damn dog). Currently I've been watching recorded shows with the coax cable unplugged and it will still reboot sometimes while scrolling through the Now Playing list. Actually, this seems to happen the most when I scroll down to the bottom of the screen to browse my PC using the newest version of Desktop plus. I have unloaded Tivo desktop on that PC to see if having Tivo desktop in the mix causes problems, but I only did that 10 minutes ago.
I have also turned on the TV a few times to find a screen full of static with a loud noise.
I'm in Boston MA with RCN cable (multistream).
I have the tivo plugged into a 3 month old APC Back-UPS 350, which never beeps with power problems.
Let's see, what else.
Oh ya, I not only did the Clear program & todo list, I also went through the complete clear & delete option
So, recapping, at first the box started freezing, sometimes when I used the remote, sometimes when watching a recorded Simpsons show.
It grew into a rebooting problem, at first rebooting every day or three, now it needs rebooting a few times a day.
Leaving the coax unplugged does not help (or at least doesn't solve the issue)
Before doing the complete wipe & reload, I tried transferring my Boston Legal episodes, but found Tivo Desktop reported network problems which was probably the box freezing or rebooting during the copy.
After doing the wipe, I tried transferring shows to the tivo, but not all of them showed up.
I've called tech support twice, but the first level scripts read to me were of no use.

I've had the box unplugged for a couple days at a time and it doesn't delay the issue from coming back.

Just before posting this, I forced a connection a couple times, and it still reports version 9.3a-01-2-652

At first I suspected the HD, then when the problem would occur when pressing the Tivo button, I suspected a failing power supply, but with all the same reports, I do suspect the current version.

I'm going to leave the Tivo desktop offline, but I do notice that the "Enable home net apps" option is there, I'm not going to hit the 3 thumbs up for that yet. I wonder if the Desktop software in the mix is freaking out the new rev of the software.

Does everyone have a PC with Tivo desktop running that is having this issue?

I will also add that I've had issues getting the newest rev of desktop to Link to my Tivo account. I've had Bad Password error messages, but stopped working on that when the freezing started.

That's about all I can remember. I hope this info helps.


----------



## dalesd

joea789 said:


> 1-652
> Does everyone have a PC with Tivo desktop running that is having this issue?


No TiVo Desktop here.


----------



## joea789

Update:
After hooking up the coax cable, I stated editing my channel list. I only made it as far as about channel 25 when the tivo rebooted. After it came back up, I was able to go and set up my channel list as desired.

It was very late at night and the tivo wasn't looking to record anything also, none of my home PCs were running Tivo Desktop during this reboot.


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## rickmeoff

1. 652
2. HDMI
3. Full, 16:9, 1080i fixed.
4. After a reboot, sometimes it happens in a few days, sometimes it takes a week.
5. Rebooted from unplugging initially, now rebooting from menu.


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## scola77

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI Den, Component Bedroom (freezing on both receivers)

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Full, 16:9 Widescreen, Native, Smoothing Off

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
About a 3-4 days following a restart

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Tried both - same result

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
Yes - it froze on ESPN HD and Disney Channel (standard definition) recently. Tried switching channels and each channel was frozen. Audio would continue for a few seconds and then stop (I think).


----------



## BobB

> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)


652



> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?


HDMI



> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?


Full, 16:9 Widescreen, Hybrid



> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?


Anywhere from a day to almost two weeks.



> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?


From the menu.



> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


Sometimes it starts to get jittery and jerky for a minute or two before freezing completely. Sometimes (not always) I've been able to jump ahead or back using FF/REW but it's still frozen when I go back to Play mode.


----------



## outpost

Had my second occurrence this morning.

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)? aspect: full. video: Native

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
I bought the unit in April. A freeze occurred about a month later, I'm guessing. The second time was this morning (June 16).

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Menu. However, yesterday, I had unplugged to switch to a different UPS.

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
Haven't seen the exact moment.

I use the clock -- Select Play select 9 select.

I have no cable -- off air only.


----------



## bpljr

TiVoJerry said:


> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


I've had my Tivo HD since 8/07 and began noticing this problem around 5/08. Any software upates around that time?

Information you requested.
1. TSN 652
2. HDMI
3. Video Settings:
Aspect Correction: FULL
TV Aspect: 16:9
Output: NATIVE
4. 7-10 days on average
5. unplugging to restart
6. Video freezes as if pause was pressed. Sometimes you can get it to continue playing by pressing ff, play, pause. Sometimes when it continues playing it will stutter then freeze again. Same problem with Live or Recorded shows.


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## joea789

datasound said:


> Hi All, I have been avoiding trying this because it is a big undertaking, but has anyone tried the CLEAR and DELETE EVERYTHING command and started from scratch to see if the problems go away? I think I might try it but if other people have found that it does not help then I really don't want to spend a whole day doing this. Reloading from scratch and re-entering my wishlists and season passes and everything else will take the better part of a day.
> 
> Thanks


I've done this and it doesn't help.

BTW, it seems to take more than a day to rebuild your lists... 
:-/


----------



## jconcaugh

So, prior to finding this thread today, I called into Tivo Support's 800 number and waited for 15 minutes for the tech to conclude my cable cards are faulty. I am having the exact symptoms described herein.

I am using (2) S Motorola cards on Comcast in Rockville MD. My answers to the questions are:

1) TSN 652
2) HDMI
3) Aspect Correction: Full, TV Aspect: 16:9, Output: Native
4) Every other day as of late
5) Menu reboot
6) this morning I was recording two shows. Switching between tuners I found one was frozen, with the occassional frame advance, the other was working normally. After toggling back and forth using the live TV button, both were frozen. I then selected watch live TV from the menus and the one that had been working started working again. When selecting saved video to playback it also stuttered. After reboot, both live TV and the saved recordings played fine. Even the recordings that were just being made while the unit displayed stuttering and freeze.

I also have a WD expansion book.


----------



## morac

joea789 said:


> Over time, this problem grew to a self-rebooting Tivo.


This doesn't sound like the same problem that TiVoJerry is requesting data on, especially if the TiVo is rebooting on its own. If the TiVo is rebooting on its own, that would seem to indicate a hard drive problem.


----------



## reeseg

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Full, 16:9, Native

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
4-6 Hours - Now Every day.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
have tried BOTH.

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

Stutters are usually a symptom of lockup. I've seen both video only (where audio continues to run and video freezes) and video and sound lock ups.

Hitting the TiVo button usually clears the stutter but not the freeze. A reboot is always required.


----------



## imacericg

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Full, 16:9, Native

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
Happens 2x a day

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Menu, never tried unplugging it

6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
Never been present, I also turn on the TV and notice its froze


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## imacericg

It froze for the third time today and it did it right infront of my eyes:

- We were watching a HD channel and selected a SD channel from the guide: FROZE
- We tried switching to another SD channel, by hitting channel up/down: STILL FROZE
- We typed in the number of a HD channel: STILL FROZE
- We tried switching to another HD channel, by hitting channel up/down: UN-FROZE
- Selected a SD channel from the guide: FROZE AGAIN

Seems to be freezing when switching from HD to SD

5min later everything is froze and we are restarting from the menu. This might be a record breaking day and have to restart it 4 times!!! 

TIVO, would you like me to take a video of how it freezes/unfreezes? Would that help at all?


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## britdiver

Well just got my second GSOD right in front of my eyes and it was at the exact second it started to record something. That recording (and channel) were OK but others went gray. Even the channel I was watching froze.


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## TiVoJerry

britdiver said:


> Well just got my second GSOD right in front of my eyes and it was at the exact second it started to record something. That recording (and channel) were OK but others went gray. Even the channel I was watching froze.


Britdiver, the issue we are discussing in this thread is completely different. We are discussing an issue where the video is present but stuck on a still frame. The screen does not go gray. There are other threads in the TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs section that you should join.

Sorry if I don't seem helpful but I don't want this thread diluted and cause confusion to later readers. Thanks for understanding.


----------



## TiVoJerry

imacericg said:


> It froze for the third time today and it did it right infront of my eyes:
> 
> - We were watching a HD channel and selected a SD channel from the guide: FROZE
> - We tried switching to another SD channel, by hitting channel up/down: STILL FROZE
> - We typed in the number of a HD channel: STILL FROZE
> - We tried switching to another HD channel, by hitting channel up/down: UN-FROZE
> - Selected a SD channel from the guide: FROZE AGAIN
> 
> Seems to be freezing when switching from HD to SD
> 
> 5min later everything is froze and we are restarting from the menu. This might be a record breaking day and have to restart it 4 times!!!
> 
> TIVO, would you like me to take a video of how it freezes/unfreezes? Would that help at all?


Since you are able to reproduce it so easily, I'd like to see what happens if you unplug the DVR instead of restart from the menus.


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## swilcox

I just had a freeze.

I was watching an HD channel. Then I pulled up the guide, used it to switch to a new channel. I then used the remote Channel button to (rather rapidly) change the channel (two or three up clicks in rapid succession). FREEZE.

And in fact, I am quite certain I've had the freeze occur previously while doing this same thing: changing channels with the Channel button on the remote.

But I've also seen it happen at other times, when I am NOT changing channels.


----------



## swilcox

Is anyone seeing a pattern here?

I just quickly scanned some posts, but two things *seemed* to suggest patterns:

(1) I and others have reported the freeze happening while switching channels
(2) I think I see people reporting that jittery video or out of sync audio might predict a freeze.

Following up on my post (above), a minute or so before my latest freeze, the video was jittery. I paused it, unpaused it, and that seemed to fix the jitters. But soon thereafter I got the freeze.


----------



## junesen

Got a stutter today. I had a problem when I first received my unit with the video freezing when I going through the Setup. But that was with whatever version my Tivo HD shipped with (8.x?). This is the first time it stuttered for me.

One thing I noticed that when I am switching channels is that the menus were different when I was in the "stuttering mode". Normally, I get the "info" that overlays the top 2/3 of the screen. When the Tivo was stuttering, changing channels will only show the time and channel information in an oval on the top right of the screen.

After I reset my box, the stuttering went away, as well as the oval channel information (it went back to the "info" overlay).


----------



## macmaml

We've been seeing this issue with increasing frequency. It started in about April with a video freeze as described commonly in this thread about every three weeks. In the last three weeks they've become much more common and we've performed soft resets on the Tivo HD three times in the last week. I hope Tivo can get this fixed ASAP. It's becoming very annoying, and my wife is growing increasingly frustrated.

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
*652*

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
*HDMI*

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
*ACM -> Full, TV Aspect Ratio -> 16:9, Video Output -> 1080i Fixed*

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
*Used to be about two weeks. Lately, the problem reappears within a day or two.*

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
*Mostly soft resets, but I have also unplugged the power cable once or twice.*

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on. 
*I believe the times we've seen this occur it's followed a pixelation/distorted image/video glitch (corrupt video signal/recording?) either on live TV or a recorded show. In each case, the program with the glitch was HD.*

FWIW, we have Comcast, two cablecards, stock Tivo HD (purchased last fall), and live in the East Bay (SF Bay). Although it's unlikely to be related, the problems grew after we started downloading Unbox shows. Could be pure coincidence.


----------



## ksanders999

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)

652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?

hdmi

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?

Full
16:9 widescreen
hybrid

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?

1-2 days typically

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?

restarted from menu usually, unplugged once or twice.

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

The problem seems to happen more frequently when I first go to watch TV after work (after it's been on the same channel for 10 hours) and go to switch to a different channel.

When I experience the problem, I can often FF or Rew a few times and get it to play for a while. It will freeze up again at a random time (typically within a few minutes). Repeating the process makes it work for a few more minutes.

Also, if a channel freezes, if I change to the other (SD or HD) version of the channel, that channel is frequently frozen as well, whereas the other channels around it are working ok. This could just be a coincidence - it's not always the case.

It has happened on live tv, recorded programs, and programs watched while being recorded.


----------



## joea789

morac said:


> This doesn't sound like the same problem that TiVoJerry is requesting data on, especially if the TiVo is rebooting on its own. If the TiVo is rebooting on its own, that would seem to indicate a hard drive problem.


Correct, while my issue started with a freezing Tivo, the rebooting issue has caused Tivo to swap the box. It may be here Friday.

One interesting thing, the last time it rebooted, it was when I switched to NESN-HD on RCN cable. This channel, and its' SD twin, are the only channels with louder volume than all others. Since my reboot happened right when I tuned to NESN-HD, it acted almost like a surge hit it. Is the new software more sensitive to signal strength? Does the Tivo keep a log of signal quality they can access?

Lastly, there is a very good reason to pull the power from any device these days, and leave it unplugged long enough for it to completely discharge. Just to get people to leave computers unplugged long enough, I have to ask them to pull the power cord from the back of the machine for 45-70 seconds. Those odd numbers seem to get the machine unplugged for 20-30 seconds!


----------



## yroca

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
Component

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Aspect Correction = Full, TV Aspect Ratio = 16:9, Video Output Format = 1080i Fixed

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
Varies, sometimes very quickly, sometimes a few days later

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Restarting from menu

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

Video playing just fine and all of the sudden 'pauses'. The picture and audio freeze, however, the bar at the bottom still indicate the TiVo is in play mode.


----------



## TiVoJerry

Thanks all for the detailed replies. Keep 'em comin'. I have no doubt your feedback is going to be very helpful in figuring this out. 


joea789, glad to hear you got an exchange. I continue to remind agents that if the box locks up or reboots that they are working on a different issue than a simple freeze on a still frame of video.


----------



## jkalnin

1. What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2. Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI

3. What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Aspect Correction = Full, TV Aspect Ratio = 16:9, Video Output Format = 1080i Fixed

4. How soon does the problem return after a restart?
Only happened once so far. Restart fixed it and it hasn't happened again... yet.

5. Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
From the menu

6. If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

I wasn't watching when it froze. I could rewind a bit and it would work for a moment or two then it would freeze again. Same thing with changing channels. Any attempt to unfreeze the video was temporary until I restarted the Tivo.


----------



## seedysailor

TiVoJerry said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I know it seems weve been quiet but weve been watching this thread intensely and trying to gather as much information as we can. Keep in mind that while this thread was first opened in November, the second post was made in February, and the second page didnt start until April. Engineering started investigating but, as luck would have it, we have been unable to reproduce the issue in the lab. We have increased our pool of testers to capture more details and log information as a result, but it takes time to correlate data from multiple units and try to find a pattern or cause.
> 
> TiVoStephen has been collecting data for me while I was travelling. The responses sent to him were helpful to the investigation, but we still need more.
> 
> I visited a customers house on Monday of this week with an engineer and some equipment. The customer said the problem was not resolved with a reboot for more than a few minutes. I had high hopes wed gotten a strong candidate for hands-on testing. Sure enough, when we restarted the unit the problem did not happen again.and has not returned this entire week. I am posting now in the hopes of collecting more information.
> 
> *What had I done differently than the customer?*
> 1> Id pulled the power cord to restart. Hed only restarted from the menu.
> 2> Id disconnected all cables (power, RF, HDMI, Ethernet) from the back because I thought I was going to take the unit back to the office.
> 3> Id left the RF cable disconnected during restart (It was still connected to our equipment.) and reconnected it after startup was complete.
> I cant be certain why any of these steps mightve helped, but am hoping several of you will try them and report your results.
> 
> In order to collect more data, let me summarize the symptoms we are looking at *in this thread*:
> Were looking for information specifically on HD units which appear to be stuck displaying a still frame of video - but the banner, guide, and all menus are accessible.
> If its not possible to display the guide, channel banner, etc then this is most likely a different issue; and a reboot may resolve the problem.
> Fast Forward will appear to work normally but pressing Play will display a single frame of video.
> Some people report that the image updates on occasion.
> Audio may or may not be playing.
> A reboot seems to resolve the issue temporarily.
> 
> Does this sum it up about right? Please correct me if not.
> 
> [
> 
> We recognize that this is a problem for a number of you and are focused on finding a solution. The more information we can get from the field, the better.
> 
> Thank you for your continued patience. I have been travelling a great deal in recent weeks as we bring additional call centers online, and appreciate the assist from Stephen during this time.


B]If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:[/B]
1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

1. 652
2. Component video
3. Full panel, 16:9,480i fixed
4. Within a day.
5. Restarting from menu - have also done a clear and delete everything - 
have not done a complete disconnect, cooldown, hookup yet.
6. I first noticed the freeze up (audio and video) on recordings(May). I have 
never had a livetv freeze. I did have a problem with displaying menus,
etc. until the last reboot. If I tried to get something to happen with the 
remote, I got a shutdown and reboot a couple times. I purchased the 
unit in February, 2008 and have software version 9.3a.


----------



## seedysailor

B]If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:[/B]
1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

1. 652
2. Component video
3. Full panel, 16:9,480i fixed
4. Within a day.
5. Restarting from menu - have also done a clear and delete everything - 
have not done a complete disconnect, cooldown, hookup yet.
6. I first noticed the freeze up (audio and video) on recordings(May). I have 
never had a livetv freeze. I did have a problem with displaying menus,
etc. until the last reboot. If I tried to get something to happen with the 
remote, I got a shutdown and reboot a couple times. I purchased the 
unit in February, 2008 and have software version 9.3a.


----------



## steve614

TiVoJerry said:


> Thanks all for the detailed replies. Keep 'em comin'. I have no doubt your feedback is going to be very helpful in figuring this out.


Do you still want us doing the 777 clear and the 2 calls to the 'mothership'?


----------



## TiVoJerry

steve614 said:


> Do you still want us doing the 777 clear and the 2 calls to the 'mothership'?


Not at this time. I think we have as much info as we can get from that particular procedure for the moment. I'll let you know if that changes.


----------



## imacericg

Here is a 5 1/2 min video if it freezing right before your eyes:


----------



## prcampbell

Thanks for posting that, imacericg. I found this thread looking for info on this very problem. My experience is just about the same with the TiVo HD. 

It seems that using the guide to change channels has a high risk of causing a freeze for me. Often I will get about ten seconds of audio with the freeze and then it will stop as well.

This only started happening to me about a month ago at most (unit purchased in October, I believe). Now I'm afraid to change channels.

Very frustrating.


----------



## carguy84

Good news. The ads in my Now Playing List still play fine, no stuttering, no freezing, no audio-only problems.

pheeeew.


----------



## timmsc

TiVoJerry said:


> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*


1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652
2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI
3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
16:9, native, full
4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
As short as a few days, as long as a couple of weeks.
5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
From the menu.
6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
I've had it freeze on SD only or HD only, or even digital SD only channels (Fios above 49). Usually though all channels freeze at the same time. With HD I'm more likely to get a couple frames of video before the picture freezes. The sound continues for a few more seconds. Sometimes with HD, a forward or backwards skip can unfreeze it temporarily. With SD a skip only gives me a new frame and a new window of a couple of seconds of audio.


----------



## johnhab

Can I ask a really stupid question: why can't TiVo just roll us back to a previous version of the software that didn't have this problem? Before 9.3a...648 (I have an S3)? This started with my box 3 weeks ago but it worked perfectly before that for months. I'm in software myself and if we had a customer that was experiencing a critical production problem like this, we would come up with a workaround IMMEDIATELY, not say, "we're still collecting data to fix the problem". Roll us back to a functioning version of software NOW.


----------



## Langree

johnhab said:


> Can I ask a really stupid question: why can't TiVo just roll us back to a previous version of the software that didn't have this problem? Before 9.3a...648 (I have an S3)? This started with my box 3 weeks ago but it worked perfectly before that for months. I'm in software myself and if we had a customer that was experiencing a critical production problem like this, we would come up with a workaround IMMEDIATELY, not say, "we're still collecting data to fix the problem". Roll us back to a functioning version of software NOW.


Because there were known issues with the previous version, it was far from in perfect working order.


----------



## greg_burns

johnhab said:


> Can I ask a really stupid question: why can't TiVo just roll us back to a previous version of the software that didn't have this problem? Before 9.3a...648 (I have an S3)? This started with my box 3 weeks ago but it worked perfectly before that for months. I'm in software myself and if we had a customer that was experiencing a critical production problem like this, we would come up with a workaround IMMEDIATELY, not say, "we're still collecting data to fix the problem". Roll us back to a functioning version of software NOW.


Pure speculation on my part...

Presumbably it makes one way schema/data changes to the database that contains your SPs, channel lists, settings, etc. A rollback would have to include a complete Clear & Delete Everything (ie format). Not sure the bootstrap portition of the software allows for that. (I highly doubt it includes code to undo database changes, since those would be version specific). But it seems that is should allow a C&DE to deal with a critcal problem in the field.


----------



## Ruby

FWIW.
The problem has started to re-occur. Here is what I have changed at Tivo's direction: new My DVR Expander including a new esata cable and a new TivoHD (from Tivo). At first, the only problem was that the disk diagnostic Tivo had me run still hangs the Tivo requiring a restart. Now that we have been recording for a while, the pictures freezes when we switch to a recorded program or to liveTV. It is unfrozen by using the back skip and the program continues without a hitch.

Nothing really new here. Just more evidence it is most likely not a hardware issue.


----------



## MameMaster!

That video is at least proof of this in action. Kudos to the guy who posted that and took out time for it.

Tivo-- give that guy a free remote or something...he managed to "reproduce" this despite your inability to do the same.


----------



## dig_duggler

MameMaster! said:


> That video is at least proof of this in action. Kudos to the guy who posted that and took out time for it.


Surely it is the Wiimote causing the issue


----------



## Mars Rocket

1: 652
2: HDMI
3: 16:9, 1080i fixed, panel
4: Anywhere from a few days to a few weeks
5: Menu
6: Going into a recording from Now Playing, it plays a few seconds and then freezes. Once this happens it seems to freeze on most (but not all) recorded shows.


----------



## rickmeoff

MameMaster! said:


> That video is at least proof of this in action. Kudos to the guy who posted that and took out time for it.
> 
> Tivo-- give that guy a free remote or something...he managed to "reproduce" this despite your inability to do the same.


That video was of a Series 3.........the problem being discussed here is in the TiVoHD unit.


----------



## imacericg

rickmeoff said:


> That video was of a Series 3.........the problem being discussed here is in the TiVoHD unit.


Sorry, I labeled the video wrong. Its a Tivo HD, not a series 3


----------



## MameMaster!

imacericg....did you get your free remote yet?


----------



## moyekj

imacericg said:


> Sorry, I labeled the video wrong. Its a Tivo HD, not a series 3


 Since you seem to be able to reproduce this fairly easily it may be useful to go to the *Diagnostics* page when one or more of the Tuners is in "frozen" state. See if there are any signal issues reported in that state, for example if there are many RS corrected/uncorrected error counts, low or high signal strength, or other information displayed under Diagnostics.


----------



## RFDuncan

Ruby said:


> FWIW.
> The problem has started to re-occur. Here is what I have changed at Tivo's direction: new My DVR Expander including a new esata cable and a new TivoHD (from Tivo). At first, the only problem was that the disk diagnostic Tivo had me run still hangs the Tivo requiring a restart. Now that we have been recording for a while, the pictures freezes when we switch to a recorded program or to liveTV. It is unfrozen by using the back skip and the program continues without a hitch.
> 
> Nothing really new here. Just more evidence it is most likely not a hardware issue.


This exact same thing has been happening to me with my TiVo HD except sometimes I just get a gray screen (could be the antenna was not set right when the recording started). All the live channels will freeze too. I have been rebooting the unit and then it works fine for a while. Did they release a new update recently for these units? This didn't start happening to me until Thursday of last week...

Kinda glad to see that I'm not the only one. I will try the back skip hint to see if that helps. Thanks in advance!


----------



## namzaps

Last night I called TiVo Technical Support about this issue. The rep seemed quite certain this problem was caused by having cable cards - and he "proved it to me" by having me look at the stats on my cards. Here are is his questions and my answers. Below that are the other answers you wanted to know.

A) Who is your cable provider.
COX - Pensacola, FL

B) Signal Strength on Cable Card 1
75

C) Current Tuning Status
Tuned: Success

D) Test Channels - is there any lag tuning the channel
1 or 2 seconds

E) Change the channel up or down - does it break up in the first few seconds after tuning to the channel?
just a little

F) Signal Strength on Cable Card 2
75

G) Current Tuning Status
Tuned: Success

H) Test Channels - is there any lag tuning the channel
yes

I) Change the channel up or down - does it break up in the first few seconds after tuning to the channel?
some freeze completely

At this point he told me it was not a TiVo problem - it was my cable company. I need to call them and have the cards replace.

I'm not sure if I buy this or if it would be a good idea to swap cards. When we are watching a show or live tv and it freezes - it will not play anything else until we restart the unit. Furthermore, on at least 1 occasion the unit was recording 2 shows in high def at the same time, so I left it alone. The next day I restarted the unit and both shows played fine in their entirety. This tells me that even though the unit froze whil playing both cards were working just fine tuning to and recording their respective stations.

Is anyone else seeing these results from their cablecards?

Here are the other answers....

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
component

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
full, 4:3 classic, hybrid

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
variable - several days usually

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
menu

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
playing back my wife's soap opera - which is convenient because I can say don't touch that dial!

Cheers and help!


----------



## TiVoJerry

NigelTufnel said:


> 1) 648
> 2) HDMI
> 3) Panel/16:9/Native
> 4) not sure how soon after restart the problems occur since i have a new unit and so far i have not had to restart often. when it happens, i usually just put some other recorded show on. (I at first assumed it was a glitchy recording rather than a pervasive software bug and approached the problem accordingly)
> 6) video goes from motion to freeze frame without any intervention on my part, not correllated with a keypress. I find I am generally able to ff or rw beyond the point at which it sticks. But, if I try to go back and re-watch the glitched portion, it happens again at exactly the same point in the program. Also, while I am ff or rewinding, I notice that it will "seek" directly past the glitchy portion, skipping 1 or 2 entire minutes. Menus are still accessible.
> 
> In my case, this freeze-frame stuff is associated with particular recordings. I just restored a deleted recording of the BBC World News in which I am able to reproduce the freeze-frame every single time at the same point.
> 
> As others have mentioned, the audio continues playing just fine.
> 
> Also: In NYC-11201, Time Warner Cable with 2 CableCards.


NigelTufnel
If you watch an affected program and encounter the issue, is LiveTV affected at that point as well? The issue we're following seems to take down all video, with a few reported channel exceptions, at that point.


----------



## NigelTufnel

TiVoJerry said:


> NigelTufnel
> If you watch an affected program and encounter the issue, is LiveTV affected at that point as well? The issue we're following seems to take down all video, with a few reported channel exceptions, at that point.


Don't know the answer to this since I generally avoid watching anything live. If I narrow it down further I will post to this thread.


----------



## carguy84

> The rep seemed quite certain this problem was caused by having cable cards


You got lied to.


----------



## TiVoJerry

Quick thing to get some feedback on: next time you experience a freeze, try disconnecting just the RF cable for 30 seconds rather than restart. Does the issue resolve? Does it come back shortly thereafter (faster than a restart)?


----------



## namzaps

carguy84 said:


> You got lied to.


That was my gut feeling. Why on earth would TiVo abdicate responsibility and dump it on the cable company to replace perfectly good CableCARDS?

Is anyone else experiencing that when the playback freezes the unit continues recording just fine in the background?


----------



## bmgoodman

namzaps said:


> That was my gut feeling. Why on earth would TiVo abdicate responsibility and dump it on the cable company to replace perfectly good CableCARDS?


Don't you know the new motto of business:

A problem deflected is a problem resolved!

My parents have had two visits from Comcast to install a CableCard in their new Tivo HD, and having failed both times, Comcast is SURE the problem lies with the Tivo.

Comcast blames Tivo. Tivo blames Comcast. Customer gets frustrated and goes away. Problem solved.


----------



## dalesd

TiVoJerry said:


> Quick thing to get some feedback on: next time you experience a freeze, try disconnecting just the RF cable for 30 seconds rather than restart. Does the issue resolve? Does it come back shortly thereafter (faster than a restart)?


Just the cable RF? What about the Antenna In? Leave that connected or disconnect that too?


----------



## RoyK

namzaps said:


> That was my gut feeling. Why on earth would TiVo abdicate responsibility and dump it on the cable company to replace perfectly good CableCARDS?...


1. The CS guy was an idiot.
2. The CS guy was having a bad day.
3. The CS guy was late for coffee break.

I'd vote for #1.


----------



## hmm52

dalesd said:


> Just the cable RF? What about the Antenna In? Leave that connected or disconnect that too?


Question wasn't addressed to me but I would remove that too, particularly if there is amplification anywhere in antenna setup.


----------



## pkeedy

how the hell do you do a soft reset!


----------



## greg_burns

pkeedy said:


> how the hell do you do a soft reset!


Do a restart from the menu as opposed to yanking the plug I suppose.

Settings->Restart or Reset System->Restart the TIvo.


----------



## craiz

namzaps said:


> Is anyone else experiencing that when the playback freezes the unit continues recording just fine in the background?


This has been my experience with the problem. The only thing that seems to not work is video playback for either live tv or recorded shows. I didn't try all channels or all shows, but I did try both HD and SD and they all stop after about 1-2 seconds. When this problem has occurred while recording something I've waited until it was done and then restarted the Tivo. After booting, the show that was being recorded plays just fine, as do all other shows and channels.


----------



## Ruby

namzaps,

I have this problem and I have NO cablecards just OTA! BTW, I have tried 2 TivoHDs and 2 external DVR extender disks so don't let them tell you it's the hardware.


----------



## filberttt

I have the same freeze symptoms with TivoHD. 
Not to muddy the inquiry, but just in case others see this also: the only other symptom is occasional loss of sound on playback of recorded program after fast-forwarding past a commercial. This is remedied by back-skipping 1, 2, or 3 times.
No apparent (to me) connection with freeze error.


----------



## leibniz

I initially discovered this very issue on my TivoHD and didn't check the forums - just called Tivo. They replaced my unit immediately (great service, by the way).

Now the new replacement unit is here and doing the same thing - exact same behavior. I don't have any cable cards (antenna only). 

I'd be happy to try and help debug the issue if someone has tests they need me to try.


----------



## leibniz

ah, just saw the questions on page 13.

1) 652
2) HDMI
3) 720p fixed, panel, 16x9
4) usually within a week
5) restart from menu
6) i typically notice it after it's frozen (i turn on television and discover it)

for what it's worth, i don't have any cable cards and only use ATSC/NTSC tuners.


----------



## mzdesigns

namzaps said:


> That was my gut feeling. Why on earth would TiVo abdicate responsibility and dump it on the cable company to replace perfectly good CableCARDS?
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing that when the playback freezes the unit continues recording just fine in the background?


Hey Namzaps,

My Tivo HD video was pausing every few days with the audio continuing for about 10 seconds and then it would also stop. I would have to reboot by unplugging the power. Yesterday now the video and audio are pausing simultaneously. Yet, the DVR continues to record programs. It is weird. The only way to get it to unpause is to fastforward or rewind or change the channel.


----------



## namzaps

leibniz said:


> I initially discovered this very issue on my TivoHD and didn't check the forums - just called Tivo. They replaced my unit immediately (great service, by the way).
> 
> Now the new replacement unit is here and doing the same thing - exact same behavior. I don't have any cable cards (antenna only).


Based on the responses this sure sounds like a software issue! I'm going to hold off on calling my cable provider to replace the cable cards since that is a reasonably painful process anyway and I think the cards are fine.

Does anybody know if they are beta testing software for the HD unit?


----------



## arosenbe

Yes, they are beta testing new software for the Series 3 and HD. I got an e-mail yesterday suggesting that if I'm experiencing the freezing problem (I am), that I join.


----------



## massimj

I am pissed to have gotten a new Tivo HD, and found it frozen in hjust the way you all describe, and to see how long this has been going on and see that Tivo is not doing anything to help. thank god it is new, I am going to send it back to Amazon, and tell them that it is defective and show them this thread to prove it. I will hold off until I see that you all have gotten satisfaction from Tivo. Tivo has a hard time getting people to try Tivo over the PVR that Dish, Comcast, and most any other company wants to give them for far less money. Having a bug like this is going to get me into a pickle with freinds that I swayed to buy Tivo HD. I really love the new HD unit, and I have been a loyal Tivo user since the early Series 1 years. I still have a lifetime contract that is going on 7 years, 5 of which were on the Series 1 box, and two more since htye let me trasfer my lifetime to a series-2 box. 
I feel that the problem is only with people who use a cable card. I doubt the problem is caused by the cable card, but is in the way Tivo handles the cable card streams. I have a new duel stream card, one card does both tuners. We can prove it by having someone who has repeated freeszing, remove the cbale cards and see if the freezing stops. I rebooted my HD after the first time it happened, and I was waiting for it to happen again before calling Tivo. Now I now to save my time, and my breath. I will have to handle this in a way that Tivo will notice. Return the product to Amazon. If enough people do the same, the distributors will put pressure on Tivo that they will feel, unlike the pressure users put on them.


----------



## namzaps

I feel your pain, but I am not ready to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Even a 10 minute reboot twice a week is far better than the other PVR's we've tried - not to mention the *gasp* alternative of watching ads.

Several people have mentioned the experience this same problem without having any cablecards.

Even more importantly - I think TiVo is aware of it and is trying to get a software fix out for beta testing. It might be only a few weeks from getting a fix fully deployed as this is clearly an urgent issue.

You might want to check with Amazon on when the last day is that you can return your unit and wait until right before that date to see what develops. That said, I do agree with you that if they cannot fix this problem and they continue to unduly place blame on the cable companies it is probably better to return the unit until the issue is resolved.


----------



## jy3

Is the consensus that this is all software related?

I'm on my 4th box. This last one has been running flawlessly since I hooked it up on the 5th of June (08), really thought this was 'the one'.

Yesterday it decided to freeze on several SD Showtime channels, so I rebooted, and presto no SD Showtime freeze, but now random freezes on other channels both SD and HD.

Not sure what to do, but I recognize the pattern.

I have some time left to return this one as well, but that 
routine is getting old.

It would be nice to know for certain if a software fix will do the trick, or if it's something else hardware related.

-Jim


----------



## MameMaster!

It really is a shame that Tivo Cust service has not been updated on this situation. I find it really offensive as a loyal customer to Tivo, that they give such BS answers like -- "it's the cable card".

Considering this thread is a few months old--- and it's now on page 17(!)....AND you have two Tivo Engineers "watching this thread closely" ......why haven't others at Tivo been made aware of this issue?

TivoStephen?
TivoJerry?

....any thoughts on the inner workings of Tivo?


----------



## jim_h

It's not the cable card - I don't have one. It has the feel of a software problem, and many people say it showed up after the latest update. but there's no guarantee. Dealers have probably been exchanging boxes just to placate customers.


----------



## runamonk

I had the same issue but stopping the communication between my PC with tivo desktop and the unit itself stopped all the issues I was having. Maybe it was one hell of a coincidence but I haven't had a single locked up in two months since I got rid of that crappy software.


----------



## MameMaster!

I agree, this has all the markings of a software problem.

I had a Pioneer Elite Tivo that kept rebooting over and over (it was unwatchable). Tivo blamed Pioneer, Pioneer blamed Tivo.

I had the box replaced...same issues.

It turned out to 100&#37; be a Tivo software issue. After 2 software updates later over the course of a couple of months the problem disappeared. If that was a hardware issue that would not have happened.


----------



## jy3

runamonk said:


> I had the same issue but stopping the communication between my PC with tivo desktop and the unit itself stopped all the issues I was having. Maybe it was one hell of a coincidence but I haven't had a single locked up in two months since I got rid of that crappy software.


:up:I'm going to give this a shot and report back in a few days.

-Jim


----------



## rcr2

Richadams gave a good opinion somewhere about this issue. I had the stuttering/freezing problem on two subsequent Series 3 boxes and replacing the hard drive "fixed" the problem as far as I can tell.

I suspected it had something to do with the drive space maxing out, as it happened after a few months and slowdown of the unit showed up sporadically when I used HD more often. Also, for my second unit, it degraded significantly after I tied it to Unbox, so it may have had something to do with software there.

richadams' view, which I think would make sense, is that it has to do with the buffer of the OEM hard drive coupled with how the TiVo software manages space and I/O.

While there probably isn't anything specifically *wrong* with the TiVo software, the combination of the OEM specs and the software cause the problem.

again, this is all just speculation, but it seems that when a 'higher-end' drive is used as a replacement, people haven't seen any kind of freezing, stuttering or slowdown of the system.


----------



## wyld

i'm probably going to curse myself for saying this, but i haven't any freezing problems for a few weeks now. before it was happening once a week. not sure what happened, but i'm happy it's gone (knock on wood).


----------



## mostman

A hard reboot caused me to enjoy about 3 straight days without a freeze.

A clearing of some old, no longer needed recordings, seems to have really fixed the problem.

I suggest, as others have, to those experiencing this issue - try and clear out some space - see if things get better.


----------



## Qwijib0

TiVoJerry said:


> *If this is what you are experiencing, please post answers to the following in your response:*
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


1) 652

2) Component

3) Full, 16:9, 1080i fixed

4) About 2 weeks

5) Menu

6) After first starting to play a recorded program or tuning to the channel, video will start to stutter almost as if its running out of data to play. Hitting instant replay will jump back and playback will be smooth, but any further use of trick play features to move forward in the video (jump to live, ff) will cause a freeze.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

runamonk said:


> I had the same issue but stopping the communication between my PC with tivo desktop and the unit itself stopped all the issues I was having. Maybe it was one hell of a coincidence but I haven't had a single locked up in two months since I got rid of that crappy software.


I've occasionally had the problem, and I don't run the TiVo desktop software.

Perhaps the problem is related to *networking* in general? The TiVo constantly accesses various servers on "the internets".


----------



## runamonk

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I've occasionally had the problem, and I don't run the TiVo desktop software.
> 
> Perhaps the problem is related to *networking* in general? The TiVo constantly accesses various servers on "the internets".


Could be, its hard to say. I have mine hooked up to the same router I use for my xbox360 as well.

It could be a fluke but I also replaced the hard drive with a 500GB drive, so its possible its related to maxing out the space or a defect in the original drive.

It could be any number of things, its so random.


----------



## filberttt

Is anyone at Tivo beyond the two engineers aware of this problem?
It often pays to go to the top.


----------



## Langree

filberttt said:


> Is anyone at Tivo beyond the two engineers aware of this problem?
> It often pays to go to the top.


No, Jerry and Pony are keeping it hush hush for now.


----------



## drcomp

I have just started experiencing the same problem this month. It only seems to happen when I don't use the unit for several days, then when I try and play anything or go to live TV the video is locked up, but audio is on for awhile. Reboot from menu clears it up.


----------



## Jon545

Well, my S3 has just started doing the stutter, slow menu and then freeze thing too. I've had it going for a exactly one year now and the last 6 months with a 1 TB external. Happened while I was traveling and my wife and daughter told me about it. Several reboots, cleaning out some of the 350 "deleted" shows, unplugging the cable and antenna, reseating the esata cables, all have had no success. Boots up fine, and anywhere from instantly to a few 10's of minutes later it starts to act slow and I see frames dropping and a few minutes later it's freeze up city.

I believe it's SW related (9.3a-01-2-648). If there weren't so many people having the same problem, I'd buy into a failing disk, but it's happening with too many units. Though maybe the SW used to be more forgiving of disk errors, or self-correcting, and something has changed in that area. I'm waiting to see if the supposed fix comes soon. I've got too many programs I haven't watched to try a full clear and delete or unmarrying the external drive. Good thing we've got two non-S3's that have been working well for well over 4 years. I may try replacing the internal drive with another 250 GB with a full transfer of all the recordings to see if that helps soon. Has anybody tried that without loosing the merger with their external drive?

*Come on TIVO support! * Let us know what's happening! When word of this hits the mainstream media, if the company doesn't say they are aggressively working a fix and expect it by xx/xx/08, it isn't going to help your new sales or customer retention.


----------



## morac

Jon545 said:


> Well, my S3 has just started doing the stutter, slow menu and then freeze thing too. I've had it going for a exactly one year now and the last 6 months with a 1 TB external. Happened while I was traveling and my wife and daughter told me about it. Several reboots, cleaning out some of the 350 "deleted" shows, unplugging the cable and antenna, reseating the esata cables, all have had no success. Boots up fine, and anywhere from instantly to a few 10's of minutes later it starts to act slow and I see frames dropping and a few minutes later it's freeze up city.
> 
> I believe it's SW related (9.3a-01-2-648). If there weren't so many people having the same problem, I'd buy into a failing disk, but it's happening with too many units.


If it just started happening recently that would tend to rule out a SW issue since the 9.3a software was released months ago and your TiVo was working fine running 9.3a during that period. There have been problems in the past that trigger if the TiVo hasn't been rebooted for a long period of time, but that doesn't appear to apply in your case. Also the fact that there haven't been any reports of S3's having the problem mentioned in this thread and that your problems don't exactly match the problems listed would seem to point towards a non-SW cause.


----------



## chart

TiVoJerry said:


> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


1) 648

2) HDMI

3) full, 16:9

4) About 2 weeks

5) unplug(soft reboot seems to only last 3 days. hard reboot 2 weeks)

6) Yes, happened as I was watching live TV. I was watching 704 (nbc high def). about one hour on that channel.(1 hour buffer). Watching weather forecast. hadn't changed channels or anything for a least an hour. remote wasn't even in my hand.
Picture had slight pixulation(or maybe just a stutter) was good for 3 seconds and then picture totally frozen. both video and sound. I thought it was just normal pixulation dropout so waited....and waited.. had to do reboot.
Good luck seems you have a mystery to solve.
My Tivo S3 in living room..Solid never had to reboot..
Seems to have started 30 days after software push.
Kevin


----------



## take5

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)

652, with a Comcast M-card

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?

HDMI

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?

Panel, 16:9 TV, 1080l fixed

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?

about 3 days. Getting more frequent over time: never, ... once, one month later, a few weeks later, a couple of weeks later, a week later, now twice a week or more.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?

from the menu

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

Usually, it's when I sit down to play saved programming, and the problem is immediately evident. Video runs for a second, then a few stop frames, then freezes. Video failure is very similar to a bad DVD. Audio continues for a short while, then often freezes as well.

Restart the DVR, and the same recorded material plays fine.

Theorizing here, the short-term symptoms seem like "core cancer", as it's fixed by a re-boot. However, since the problem didn't happen for the first several months, that sounds more like a fragmented hard drive or database.


----------



## dolcevita

namzaps said:


> Last night I called TiVo Technical Support about this issue. The rep seemed quite certain this problem was caused by having cable cards - and he "proved it to me" by having me look at the stats on my cards.


Well, I just started having this issue and I don't have cable cards! OTA only for HD and "regular" cable for SD.



runamonk said:


> I had the same issue but stopping the communication between my PC with tivo desktop and the unit itself stopped all the issues I was having. Maybe it was one hell of a coincidence but I haven't had a single locked up in two months since I got rid of that crappy software.


Now that's interesting because I had not used Tivo Desktop in quite a while but recently set it up again...right before this problem started. Gonna try stopping the communication and see what that does.


----------



## prcampbell

I'm having the problem but I do NOT have TiVo Desktop installed nor do I have any network connection to the TiVo HD box. I'm using the telephone for all communication on the box. So in my case at least, it has nothing to do with network connectivity.


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## DUSlider

Just happened, here are the details...

We were watching Spiderman on TNTHD. Video and Audio froze simultaneously. I channeled up to Discovery HD. Worked fine, waited several minutes and it didn't freeze. Channeled down to TNTHD and the screen was gray and did not display any picture.

I changed the channel to 236 WPSG HD by punching in the numbers to watch the phillies game and the video stuttered for about 30 seconds, then the video froze along with the Audio. I used the guide to change the channel back to Discovery HD and it worked fine. Used the guide to change back to TNTHD and still got a gray screen.

I went to the Tivo main screen, and tried to watch a recorded show, non-HD and it played fine for 5 minutes, didn't wait for it to freeze. Went back to live TV and TNTHD was still a gray screen. Tried discovery HD and the video/audio froze. Tried a few other channels and it froze on every one.

One thing stayed the same though, the original channel I was on when it froze always stayed gray and never displayed a picture frozen or not.

I did a hard reset this time by pulling the power plug, all other times I restarted from the menu. This is the first freeze in a couple weeks from my recollection. I'm going to start keeping track now.


----------



## doconeill

I just had something new happen with my main unit, which has not happened before.

Within the span of an hour, it locked up three times.

The first time, we were watching a recorded HD program.

The second and third times, we were watching a live HD program.

In all three, an SD recording was in progress.

The symptoms were the same. The video and audio will drop momentarily. It will flash back on the screen, but frozen (no macroblocking). The video might then go away after a few seconds. The TiVo does not respond to the remote at all other than the yellow light comes on and you get a "bong".

The only recovery is a power cycle.

I have not yet tried a kickstart. For the moment, I'm staying off the HD channels.

Is there any way to call up the logs on an unhacked system? I'd like to see if there are drive errors reported.

This system does have a DB35 drive internally, nothing externally.

Connections are FIOS (attentuated), two S-cards, HDMI to Phillips LCD 1080p (native mode). 

Of course, I'm leaving in a couple hours for 5 days on a business trip, and if I leave the wife and kids with a broken TiVo there'll be hell to pay...

Edit: It's on a relatively (few months old) UPS as well.


----------



## yroca

TiVoJerry said:


> Quick thing to get some feedback on: next time you experience a freeze, try disconnecting just the RF cable for 30 seconds rather than restart. Does the issue resolve? Does it come back shortly thereafter (faster than a restart)?


I came back from vacation to a frozen picture. I immediately disconnected the RF cable for 30 seconds and go the blue TiVo banner about signal, then reconnected. Picture came back up to the same frozen image. I changed the channel and then, 30 - 60 seconds later received this screen (attached).


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## mike3775

> Originally Posted by TiVoJerry View Post
> 1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
> 2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
> 3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
> 4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
> 5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
> 6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.


1. 652

2. HDMI

3. full, 16:9, 1080i fixed

4. usually within a few hours

5. first two times by menu, last time by unplugging

6. watching ESPN HD, and both video and audio just stopped(like I hit the pause button), and then I hit rewind and it worked then froze up again 30 seconds later. I then tried playing a show I recorded on History Channel HD and same thing occured, then it told me that there was an issue with my cable card, when there isn't(I had Comcast do a check)


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## swilcox

runamonk said:


> I had the same issue but stopping the communication between my PC with tivo desktop and the unit itself stopped all the issues I was having. Maybe it was one hell of a coincidence but I haven't had a single locked up in two months since I got rid of that crappy software.


I'm on a Mac, don't have the crappy PC software, and I still have the problem. It's not the PC Tivo Desktop software.


----------



## swilcox

runamonk said:


> Could be, its hard to say. I have mine hooked up to the same router I use for my xbox360 as well.
> 
> It could be a fluke but I also replaced the hard drive with a 500GB drive, so its possible its related to maxing out the space or a defect in the original drive.
> 
> It could be any number of things, its so random.


I also don't think it's a space issue. I have a 500 GB drive (WeaKnees) and very little recorded on it. I still get freezes.


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## jy3

jy3 said:


> :up:I'm going to give this a shot and report back in a few days.
> 
> -Jim


Disabled home networking from the HD box and access to Tivo Desktop. Thinned out some recordings.
Then did a Menu reboot.

Trouble free for about a day. Then turned on yesterday to a frozen screen
Changed the channel, and all was well. Switched back to frozen channel,
and it was fine. Experienced some random stuttering as well, but nothing major.
We'll see.

stock TivoHD w/SA m-card

1. 652

2. HDMI

3. panel, 16:9, Native

4. random

5. menu

6. random occurrences


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## jim_h

About 2 weeks after I rebooted, my HD started freezing again as I watched live TV. I'd switch to a channel and the video would be frozen; a few seconds of sound, then sound stops. Menus, playback of recorded programs still worked. Switched to other channels, some worked, some would freeze. In every case I was able to use fast-forward to un-stick the channel. After repeating thsi several times I rebooted from the menu and operation became normal.

Next time I'm going to try a few more things. I want to see if the 'frozen' channels are actually being recorded. It seemed like they were, and if I used FF to move to the end of the buffer and back into real-time, normal operation resumed.


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## tv_is_fun

+1 on this problem. Some additional data points that may or may not be influencing the issue:

- Never had the problem for the past two months since I bought the TivoHD, running with Comcast and a Motorola M-Card. 

- "Upgraded" to Verizon FIOS today. They replaced the single M-Card with two of the older Motorola single-stream cards. And that's when the problem started.

So I have a new service provider, older model cable cards, and two single-stream cards rather than one multi-stream card. How to further diagnose the problem and/or eliminate things?


----------



## Megosteve

1> 652
2> HDMI
3> Full, 16:9, Hybrid
4> A few days. I've only had my Tivo up and running about two weeks now, and one previous freeze that was fixed with a software reset.
5> First time it happened I restarted from the menu.
6> I watched one HD channel for about an hour, then switched to ESPN to watch the Red Sox and that's when it froze. Tried switching channels, but they all froze as well... I'd get a few seconds of audio, and maybe a few frames of video, then all live TV and any attempt at any previously recorded playback through the main menu does the same. I can navigate all menus and the guide just fine. 

Further datapoints: I'm using an M-card that was installed about a week ago Saturday.

As someone who is totally brand new to Tivo, I'm pretty disappointed. I was excited about it and bought lifetime service on it, so it's not like I can just cancel my monthly fee, nor will a service credit help. Unless a chargeback works, I'm stuck with a $700 investment on something that does not function as advertised.

It's not the end of the world, but it really bugs me that the Red Sox are on regular cable maybe five times a month, and my choices tonight are to reset and screw up the recording on the game that I couldn't watch or to totally go without seeing any of it until after the game is over.

I guess I should have believed the Comcast store guy when he told me that TivoHD has a lot of problems.


----------



## mike3775

If its the cable cards, then its Tivo's fault, because my cable cards worked fine until the 9.3 update.

It refroze on me again today while watching a recorded Deadliest Catch(from a month ago). Did a hard reboot this time. Hopefully I will go longer than 1 day before the next freeze.


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## drWatson23

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652
2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI
3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Full, 16:9, 1080i Fixed
4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
Totally random, 1-2x / wk
5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Hard reset a few times, sometimes I let it be for a couple hours and the issue goes away on it's own.
6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
I only experienced it during playback, all of the sudden picture freezes audio continues, FF shows picture, hit play again it image freezes again.

I have 1 MCard in slot 1 from Time Warner.
I also use pyTivo, I suspect it has something to do with the issue since tivo was working fine for days then it started freezes 30 min-hour after I transferred a show.


----------



## DUSlider

Froze again today, less than 36 hours after a hard reboot. I wasn't here when it happened. I did a soft reboot this time. I'm also using an M card from Comcast.

I had 2 shows recording when this happened. I waited until they were done and soft rebooted it. The recorded shows appear to play fine... So I highly doubt that this is a hardware issue with a hard drive or cable card...


----------



## Lazlo123

First post was on 11/29/07? And after a brief reading of this thread it seems like just about every single post of this 500+ thread is one person chiming in saying they are having the same problem.

*Why has this not been fixed Tivo? * I just bought a Tivo HD and thinking about returning it before even booting it up... I bought Tivo to not have to worry about what is on tv at a certain time, now I'm going to have to worry if it is going to even be watchable?? How can Tivo let this go for so long without some official acknowledgement? Or did I miss that communication?


Then again, I try to remind myself that the people who are happy don't typcically post that they're happy... I wonder how many TivoHD users have NOT experienced this... will I be one? Hmm...


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## moyekj

Lazlo123 said:


> How can Tivo let this go for so long without some official acknowledgement? Or did I miss that communication?


 All the numbered responses are all directed at questions posed by TivoJerry (a Tivo employee) who posted in this thread and is trying as best he can to collect information on this problem. So yes, there has been acknowledgment of the problem and Tivo is working on trying to reproduce and fix it.


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## dankruse

Just happened to me today - had the Tivo HD for 3 weeks, first time I have seen it, nothing has changed on my system.

Video freezes and sound continues for a couple seconds before also stopping. Change channels, video freezes after a second and sound continues for a couple seconds before also stopping. Happened on every unencrypted station - strangely, if I tuned to HBOHD, it worked just fine.

Restarting the Tivo cleared the problem.

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652) *652*
2> Are you using HDMI or component video? *HDMI*
3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)? *16x9 1080 fixed*


----------



## Lazlo123

moyekj said:


> All the numbered responses are all directed at questions posed by TivoJerry (a Tivo employee) who posted in this thread and is trying as best he can to collect information on this problem. So yes, there has been acknowledgment of the problem and Tivo is working on trying to reproduce and fix it.


Ok, good to know! I was under the impression that anything on Tivocommunity.com was not _*official*_ Tivo business.


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## tv_is_fun

dankruse said:


> Video freezes and sound continues for a couple seconds before also stopping. Change channels, video freezes after a second and sound continues for a couple seconds before also stopping. Happened on every unencrypted station - strangely, if I tuned to HBOHD, it worked just fine.


This is exactly the same problem I'm having. Scanning through the rest of the thread, I'm not 100% certain that these are the same symptoms everyone else here is having. A lot of people seem to report that they've only seen the freeze when not watching live TV, whereas you and I are both seeing this on channel changes. For me the problem only occurred on non-HD channels. Flipping around the HD channels everything was fine, but if I went to the lower channels the majority of them (but not every one) would freeze up. For example, channel 5 would freeze consistently, but I could never get channel 4 to freeze, even after flipping back and forth numerous times.

I also notice, when I change channels and the TiVo is behaving, that there is a slight jump in the video a moment after the new channel comes on... Almost as though the TiVo is considering whether to freeze the video, and decides not to do it _this time..._ Another odd and possibly related thing I've seen is with the music channels: the music starts playing, and the screen is black for a moment. Then there is a brief "blip" in the music, the video kicks in, and the music kicks back in.

Last night I also had two occurrences of stuttering live TV, with no effect on the audio. Both times I hit the quick replay button, then fast forwarded to catch back up with the live signal, and it fixed the problem.


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## mike3775

Mine occurs whether or not I change the channel or not.

At first i thought it was a problem with ESPN, because I would turn ESPNHD on and it would freeze right after, then I would turn to ESPN2HD and same thing would happen. Then it started occuring on Discovery HD and History HD.

quite a few times I would come home from work and turn on the TV and Fox HD would be frozen, and the timer would show me 1 1/2 hours behind real time, and if I hit FF, I would be on real time and then the screen would freeze again.

And sorry, but I think Tivo has had enough time to look into this already and find out what is causing the issue, or at least have a suspicion, and they should be letting us know what it is.


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## jim_h

I conclude that Tivo, at this point, is a company with very limited resources. 

Imagine that iPhones started locking up - Apple would have a fix rolled out within a week. Our problem is now over 6 months old and it seems like there's only a token effort going on at Tivo.

My fear now is that Tivo gets sold, or folded. Sure someone else would pick up the subscription service but if they lose the original software engineers, it will be a long time if ever before something like this is solved. I can live with a reboot every week but some people are saying they have to do it several times a day.


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## tv_is_fun

jim_h said:


> Our problem is now over 6 months old and it seems like there's only a token effort going on at Tivo.


I suggest that everyone put in a call to TiVo support on this issue, if you haven't already. Only by increasing the number of support hours spent on these incidents will it be worth TiVo's time to get a fix out quickly. Support hours cost the company measurable amounts of money, and I assume that the company has internal metrics around top reported issues, etc. Enough support calls and this issue will show up at the top and therefore will become a priority.


----------



## Lazlo123

jim_h said:


> I conclude that Tivo, at this point, is a company with very limited resources.
> 
> Imagine that iPhones started locking up - Apple would have a fix rolled out within a week. Our problem is now over 6 months old and it seems like there's only a token effort going on at Tivo.
> 
> My fear now is that Tivo gets sold, or folded. Sure someone else would pick up the subscription service but if they lose the original software engineers, it will be a long time if ever before something like this is solved. I can live with a reboot every week but some people are saying they have to do it several times a day.


Gonna have to agree... I don't think I know of any other company (that I've dealt with anyway) that would take so long to fix a problem that apparently impacts so many of their customers...


----------



## carguy84

> So yes, there has been acknowledgment of the problem and Tivo is working on trying to reproduce and fix it.


Call up their customer service, explain your problem, and listen to their solution. Then come back and say they have "acknowledgment of the problem". Tivo's solution: blame the cable company - official stance.

I'm not holding my breath for a solution from Tivo, but what choice do we have? I suspect refunds are processing right now?


----------



## CharlesH

Lazlo123 said:


> Ok, good to know! I was under the impression that anything on Tivocommunity.com was not _*official*_ Tivo business.


When TiVoJerry, et.al., post on this forum, they are posting in their capacity as TiVo employees. As I understand it (from the outside), employees are allowed to post here only with management approval, as part of their job responsibilities, and their responses are crafted with the same care that would apply to any other public communication from the company, such as press releases.


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## mjpaci

Just want to add my data points.

Have had Tivo HD since December and didn't see this problem until about 6 weeks ago. It doesn't happen on every channel. Sometimes HD, sometime not. Changing channels may or may not fix it. Soft and Hard reboots will clear the problem for a week or so.

FIOS.

--Mike


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## bmgoodman

jim_h said:


> I conclude that Tivo, at this point, is a company with very limited resources.


That's not really fair. Their resources seem to be focused on getting to market in Canada and Australia. Isn't that more important than a small percentage of folks with freezes, pauses, reboots, etc.? (Where "small percentage" is certainly below 100 and possibly below 10.)


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## Lazlo123

Good plan, get the product to other countries before getting it right in one, so more people will be mad about the problems with Tivo.


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## MameMaster!

Ok...I had 2 solid freeze weeks until last night--- Here's my info as requested--

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
Component

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?
Aspect Correction-- Full
TV Aspect-- 16:9
Video Output-- Native

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
2 weeks

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Menu

6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
The TV was recording on both tuners and then live TV locked up. I had sound but no moving video. The sound eventually cut out after a few seconds. All video & live TV then fully locked up.

The animated menus were all active.

Upon reboot-- it cleared the problem and all of the recordings that had been in progress seemed OK.


----------



## buddy4344

I am RCN usining two cable cards. Answers to questions asked

1. 652
2, HDMI
3. Flat panel 16:9, full (standard setting)
4. every few days now. only note this when change of channel or when I turn on the TV. normally can hear sound and get sporadic refresh of individial frozen images or just frozen images.
5. unplug method. Should I be using the 777 clear thing noted in this thread?
6. sometimes i can switch channels several time a clear problem for very short period, but ... unreliable method of help.

Once problem is resolved, will a message on solution be sent to the TIVO or must I follow this thread?

I haven't seen reply on suggestion of just disconnecting cable input then reconnecting noted. I will try that next time.

ALSO: I have an eSATA western digital external 500MB drive plugged into my unit.

Buddy


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## TiVoJerry

buddy4344 said:


> 1. 652
> 2, HDMI
> 3. Flat panel, full
> 4. every few days now.
> 5. unplug method. Should I be using the 777 thing noted in this thread?
> 6. sometimes i can switch channels several time a clear problem for very short period, but ... unreliable method of help.
> 
> Once problem is resolved, will a message on solution be sent to the TIVO or must I follow this thread?
> 
> Buddy


Don't worry about using 77-clear.

Historically we don't message a large group of customers for a specific issue that only affects a percentage of our customers. _(please don't take this as an invalidation, or detraction in any way, of this thread and those affected). _Following this thread is going to be the best way for you to receive the most accurate status of the issue.


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## wtb

I had the problem a while back and thought it related to the external hard drive getting too warm. It went away for a while, but now is back and the hard drive doesn't have any vents blocked or anything warm next to it. It's usually video play back, but I have seen live TV showing the problem.


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## wtb

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
component video

3> What are your video settings
(aspect correction mode,
Panel

TV aspect ratio [there are three choices],
4:3 classic screen

video output format)?
480i Fixed

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
sometimes a few hours, but usually a day or two lately.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
unplugging

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on. 
NA


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## ohwillyb

Add Me to the list I have a tivo series 2 sent it in for freezing up they sent me a new one and it lasted 3 weeks before frezing up..


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## cleverdevil

Another data point: a hard reset kept me free and clear of freezes since my last post, but it came back yesterday... I will do another hard reset tomorrow morning :/


----------



## Ezzie00

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI

3> What are your video settings
(aspect correction mode,
Panel

TV aspect ratio [there are three choices],
Wide Screen

video output format)?
1080i

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
Typically two days.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
From menu, will hard restart with plug today.

6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

My symptom may be slightly different from some. My live TV does freeze, but I rarely see it happen. What does happen is watching recorded shows will freeze every couple seconds or so. Hitting rewind then play immediately continues the video, but it does not seem to last. Shows are still recording properly, even in frozen states but it seems to be getting worse and worse. Today I tried watching Ice Truckers in HD, but never got more then 10 seconds of video before it froze. At that point it is unwatchable.

I have tried disconnecting wireless ethernet, tried deleting shows and emptying the deleted items folder with no effect. I will probably call TiVo tomorrow to see if they can offer any additional suggestions.

Added note: Playing normal definition recordings seems to work fine, but all HD shows seem to freeze up. After hard reboot performance returns to normal and I could watch my HD shows.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

jim_h said:


> Imagine that iPhones started locking up - Apple would have a fix rolled out within a week.


You're correct that Apple would fix an iPhone problem pretty quickly. There's too much recurring revenue involved for them not to.

However, you haven't been paying careful attention to Apple if you think this is always the way they behave. There have been *many* problems over the years that Apple has mostly ignored, pretending that there's nothing wrong, hoping that people will get tired of complaining.


----------



## jrp77nj

1> 652
2> HDMI
3> Aspect Correction-- Full
TV Aspect-- 16:9
Video Output-- Native
4> A couple of days, 2-3
5> Menu and Unplugging - Tried Both
6> The animated menus were all active.

I've had the Tivo Since last September (07) and I'd say this issue started about 4 weeks ago.

Looking forward to a resolution.


----------



## reefboy

The number for the HQ is: (408) 519-9100

the VP who appears to be in charge or products is Mark Roberts - you can find his extension in the company directory. I spoke to his assistant and explained that I'm a fan, I've had tivo boxes since the company started, bought a series 3 early for a lot of money, and right now I'm dead in the water, and unfortunately am having to use a Comcast DVR. and that tech and customer support appear to be barely aware of the problem, and have no useful answers to give.

she was v. nice and is going to pass on the message. if Mark gets maybe fifty or a hundred of these, he may raise the priority, ya think?

Joe


----------



## jim_h

Less than 2 days since my last reset and it's freezing again, so the frequency of the problem seems to be increasing. Some more observations:

For me it happens on live TV only. I switch to a channel and the video freezes immediately, followed by sound a few seconds later. Both HD and normal digital channels were affected (I've removed the analog channels). Switching to another channel, and back. often cleared it but not always. It appears that while frozen, the signal is being recorded, and I was always able to un-freeze the channel by simply fast-forwarding to the end of the buffer.

The system was not recording or downloading during this time. As previously posted, I'm OTA only, no cable cards. The menu system continued to work.


----------



## jeffinaz

I have the same problem. Have had it every couple weeks since I bought the Tivo HD in March. Restarting the Tivo fixes it. Nothing else will work. This happens when watching live and also recording. Once it freezes, it shows about 2 seconds of video and audio, then stops. This situation is the same on live TV and also recorded programs. Have also had the dropped channels problem twice since then. The firmware on my Mcard was updated last night. Now, the freezing has happened twice in 12 hours. Nice work guys. :down::down::down:

Cox- Scottsdale, AZ


----------



## jeffinaz

I have now had the freezing issue 4 times in under 24 hours. What is the deal?


----------



## dmarkow

I've also seen an increase the last couple days. Today I've literally had to reboot every hour or two. (And in between every reboot, I have to hear "And why did we pay for this thing again?" from my wife!)


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## joea789

I got my replacement Tivo HD last Friday, it came with version 8.1.7c2-01-2-652
I let it upgrade on it's own, which happened in a few days or so. It's at 9.3a-01-2-652.
I enabled 30 second skip
tonight, about an hour ago, I started seeing my first freezes when switching to live tv.
it was not recording or downloading anything during this whole log.
No amazon unbox link has been setup on this box yet.
everything below is just a logging of everything I did 'cause I had the laptop open. I have not done a reboot so far. I'm currently able to watch live tv unfrozen after going throgh the whole thing below, so I don't feel a need to pull power yet.

Here's what happened:
I experienced a frozen pic on 5StarMax.
pressed live tv and switched to comedy central SD #54 and it started playing
pressed live tv to switch back to the 5starMax SD, pic was frozen, sound played for a few seconds.
manually dialed a HD chan(#156), it started frozen with a second of audio.
Pressed live tv and it switched to 5starMax frozen, couple secs audio.
Pressed live tv, and it switched back to #156 and played fine til i switched 20 seconds later.
Manually dialed HBO2, #301, it was frozen with a few seconds of audio
Pressed Live tv, back to 5max, was frozen, couple seconds audio.
pressed live tv back to HBO2, it was frozen, and rewinding or instant replaying would go back to a previous scene, but it would be frozen.
dialed an SD channel, 56, it was frozen.
redialed channel # 54, comcentral, and it played just fine.
pressed live tv, it went back to 5max froze, few secs audio
manually dialed 54, all's fine.
manually dialed a HD channel, 156, played just fine
pressed enter to switch back to comcentral, played fine, I could rewind a few minutes back in time.
pressend enter back to 156, could rewind back a few minutes
pressed live tv, it switched back to comcentral, #54, frozen, played a bit of audio. Pressing instant reply skipped back and started playing normally
Pressed live tv, it switched back to 156, played fine.
pressed live tv, it went to 54 and played fine for the 20 seconds I gave it.
pressed live tv, it went to 156 played fine, rewind works.
pressed live tv, back to 54, froze screen, some sound.
pressed instant reply, started playing normally for the 60 seconds I gave it.
pressed live tv back to 156, played fine, plenty of buffer there.
pressed enter button, back to 54, froze, little audio.
instant reply fixed it.
pressed enter back to 156, played fine
pressed live tv, froze, some audio. Rewind, play fixed it.
went and played a 720p version of Thesimpsons, played fine
pressed live tv back to 54, played fine
pressed live tv to 156, fine
pressed live tv back to 54, froze, some audio, instant replay fixed it.
pressed enter back to 156, played fine
tuned to 325, 5star max via grid, was frozen, some audio
pressed enter back to 156, played fine, lots of buffer.
pressed tivo button, started playing the simpsons again.
tuned to HD channel 193 via grid.
dialed 156, this time it was frozen, with plenty of buffer.
pressed enter, played fine
pressed enter back to 156, played fine.
tuned to 178 Cinemax HD
kept pressing live tv button, each channel played, til I watched a couple minutes of 178, then went back to 156, whic was frozen.
went to diags, everthing seemed ok, 
said tuner 0, channel 156, signal strength around the mid 70s to low 80s, SNR was 33
tuner 1 looked good too signal strength hig 60s to mid 70s snr was 33 

HTH...


----------



## danterner

I've had my TivoHD about three months or so and just got my first batch of freezes last night. It's definitely the 777clear symptoms. A restart brought things back into line for now. I had only 5 items in the deleted folder at the time. I do have the WD external expander drive; other than that, the Tivo is completely stock, running 9.3a. Here's hoping for a fix one of these days, because restarting the Tivo always scares the hell out of me (I've have a few Tivos die on me in the past few years, with the infinite "just a few minutes more..." loop startup screen, so I avoid restarting whenever possible now).


----------



## Ezzie00

I am down to restarting the TiVo every day in order to watch HD shows. Thinking of doing a hard drive swap myself in hopes that will help at least temporarily. Anyone seen any positive results after an HD swap or should I be sticking with TiVo support to try to get things rolling right?


----------



## wdpower

I had my TiVo a few months before the freezing started. Now I have had a freeze once a week for the past few weeks. Atleast it seems to restart pretty quick lately. My daughter doesn't understand why she can't watch Curious George right away. I'm sure there will be a fix someday.

BTW, I just purchased a DVR expander from Buy.com, should be here Monday. (great price!)

-Bill


----------



## jeffinaz

Aside from a restart, does anyone know of any other way to work around this issue? I'm not familiar with 777clear, but please let me know if I should be doing something different. My Tivo HD is also stock. Tivo wireless adapter on WiFi.

I can't see replacing the hard drive as this unit is 3 months old. Also, when I first bought this, I had the freezing issue. I called Tivo and they told me to take it back for an exchange at Circuit City as I likely had a hard drive issue. I did that, and I still have the same problem. This is not a hard drive issue, it is a bug.


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## jim_h

jeffinaz, so far I've always been able to un-freeze a live TV channel by fast-forwarding to the end of the recording buffer.


----------



## danterner

7-7-7 Clear isn't a fix; it is just something that the Tivo folks asked us to press on the remote when the problem is evident. Apparently, it places a marker on a log that the tivo keeps internally, so that when the tivo next calls in they will more easily be able to search for the part of the log covering the time period where the error occurred. At least that's my understanding.


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## filberttt

Froze last night after 2 solid weeks error-free.
Switched from live to playback of SD program.
About 2 seconds of playback then froze.
Other SD playbacks also froze, but HD programs played okay.
Tivo was recording a SD program and a HD program at the time.
Stopped both recordings and deleted their programs: no dice.
Soft reboot fixed it.


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## Mars Rocket

Is there any conclusive link between the freeze and the use of TiVoDesktop software? I was freeze-free for weeks and then once I started using TiVoDesktop again I started having daily freezes.


----------



## TechDreamer

7 months of this. I have been checking every month or so for updates and nothing. Tivo is a joke. Tivo has now joined all the other companies that cannot build an HDTV dvr. I know it took a lot of work Tivo, but you have now caught up with everyone else. I hope you are proud of the incompetence.


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## mccauley

The post from filberttt is exactly what I have been seeing for several weeks now. In particular, HD programs do not seem to suffer from the freeze, only SD programs. Stopping other recordings does not make a difference. Very annoying, if not intolerable (which it is if I have to interrupt recordings in order to do a reboot to unfreeze and watch what I want to watch).



filberttt said:


> Froze last night after 2 solid weeks error-free.
> Switched from live to playback of SD program.
> About 2 seconds of playback then froze.
> Other SD playbacks also froze, but HD programs played okay.
> Tivo was recording a SD program and a HD program at the time.
> Stopped both recordings and deleted their programs: no dice.
> Soft reboot fixed it.


----------



## mike3775

mccauley said:


> The post from filberttt is exactly what I have been seeing for several weeks now. In particular, HD programs do not seem to suffer from the freeze, only SD programs. Stopping other recordings does not make a difference. Very annoying, if not intolerable (which it is if I have to interrupt recordings in order to do a reboot to unfreeze and watch what I want to watch).


That is not true. My freezes occur with both HD and SD programs


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## MustHaveTivo

We had the freezing symptom occur on both our HDs beginning when 9.3 arrived. I do believe our symptoms matched the problem at hand rather than any other problem. Frozen video and a few seconds of audio when switching channels or starting a recorded program; menus functional; after rebooting, all recordings that were in progress play fine. We never saw it occurring; it always appeared when we first turned on the TV after a time. The disk has been upgraded in each. We do not have TiVo Desktop. CableCards are our only signals. 2 S-cards from TW Hacienda Heights in each.

I thought I would jump in because we noticed it seemed to be correlated with one of us having left live TV paused earlier. We started making an effort to make sure live TV was not paused if we were walking away for a significant time, and I don't believe we have seen a single freeze since. Anyone else able to corroborate that? 

1. 652
2. Interesting question. TiVo A: HDMI. TiVo B: HDMI to one room and component to another. Occurrence of freezing was much less frequent on Tivo B. Can't correlate it with when it had been on HDMI or not at this point.
3. TiVo A: Aspect=Panel, 4:3 smart screen, output= 1080ifixed
TiVo B: Panel, 16:9 widescreen, 1080i fixed
4. Highly variable. One day to many, many days. 
5. Menu
6. Never seen it in progress.


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## jim_h

We never pause live TV. And, I've seen HD channels freeze as well as SD.


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## Mars Rocket

Yeah, I never pause Live TV either. With our TiVo today it was freezing on HD and not SD, but I didn't do a really thorough test - I just waited until it wasn't recording anything and rebooted it.


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## BankZ

I was having this problem and it seems that it was caused by watching a "web video" that I sent to the tivo via Pytivo


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## jkalnin

Well, its been a while since I had an issues, but once again this morning the Tivo welcomed me to a blank screen. Changing the channels worked temporarily, but the video continued to freeze. We did nothing different last night, just watched a few recorded HD shows and some live TV. 

Since this thread will no doubt be active for awhile, I'll see how long till this issue occurs again.

$700 for this crap, so very frustrating. The S2 was never this buggy.


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## macmaml

TiVoJerry said:


> Quick thing to get some feedback on: next time you experience a freeze, try disconnecting just the RF cable for 30 seconds rather than restart. Does the issue resolve? Does it come back shortly thereafter (faster than a restart)?


We just returned from vacation and our Tivo HD continues to freeze. We had our first opportunity to try disconnecting the RF cable per TivoJerry's request. No luck. When we reconnected the RF cable, the video was still still frozen and had to do a soft reset.

One thing I've noticed on two recent freezes is that the Tivo HD is recording two programs at the same time and both tuners are recording the same program (but not necessarily on the same channel).


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## carguy84

How about Tivo gives us a daily update on this problem and what they are doing to solve the issue? Surely the development team can't be working on much else other than this problem by now, so the daily updates should be pretty substantial.

Thanks.


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## hiddentrout

FWIW, here's just another "me too."

I jumped off the Tivo bandwagon (sadly) when the S3 was so expensive (particularly given that D* was offering me a HR21 for free), and limited to cable.

My father, however, likes to dance with the woman he brought, so he splurged for TWO S3 Tivos, and has been enjoying it - until recently. A couple (three?) weeks ago, he began telling me how his tivo kept acting sluggishly, freezing and randomly rebooting, to the point it was no longer usable.

It had gotten so bad, he called Comcast and had a 6412 installed.

I stopped by today and was able to see a number of such freezes and at least two reboots, so I hopped back over here and - HOLY POO - I can't believe what a problem this is, and that tivo hasn't fixed this yet!

My father will probably ride this wave for awhile, and hope it gets better, but this is _exactly_ why I wouldn't pay so much for an HD DVR, nor would I become particularly attached to any provider (I happily move betwen D*, E* and Comcast, every two years or so to pickup new HW and the latest promotional deal).

All that said, although I'm no longer a Tivo owner (well, I still have two S1s collecting dust in the garage), I'm still a fan, and here's to hoping this gets sorted.


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## wdpower

Here's a new twist on mine.

The number is 652.

SW 9.3a

I'm recording on one HD channel, no prob. Switch to the other, frozen, back and still OK. Try to play a previously recorded show, frozen. Live TV one still froze and the other OK. Figured I'd try jumping back and forth, no luck. Maybe switching channels, nothing till I hit a few channels away and it started working again. Go back to a frozen channel still frozen, other tuner OK, recorded still frozen. It appears that a few are frozen and a few are not.

Don't know if this helps. BTW I have one multi-stream Scientific Atlanta Cable card on Comcast.

Thanks,
Bill


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## jim_h

carguy84, I may be a cynic but you are an optimist. I speak with 20 years of experience in the software business: when a problem like this drags on for 6 months, that means the right people - the ones who could actually solve it - aren't working on it. They're tied up doing other things of higher priority.


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## moyekj

jim_h said:


> carguy84, I may be a cynic but you are an optimist. I speak with 20 years of experience in the software business: when a problem like this drags on for 6 months, that means the right people - the ones who could actually solve it - aren't working on it. They're tied up doing other things of higher priority.


 I think it's more a case of not being able to reproduce the problem in their environment. As with any software problem, once you can reliably reproduce the problem the fix is much easier.


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## slowbiscuit

Seems like it would be easy to recreate the prob just by swapping out a unit that's exhibiting the behavior for another one at Tivo's expense. For the ones that have the problem, it's a constant problem that reoccurs on a regular basis.


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## jkalnin

They can't reproduce it? Then they have magic TivoHD's at their offices. All they need to do is have any of the people here complaining send in their Tivos. Mine freezes less frequently then others so I wouldn't be a good candidate, but some people here experience freezes constantly. I don't believe that they can't reproduce it in house for a second, it occurs to too many people here too frequently for me to believe they haven't seen it in person.

My guess is they've seen it, they can't figure out how to reproduce it, and they have no idea what is causing it. That is just a guess, but they are being awfully quiet about what appears to be a fairly widespread problem.


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## steve614

I think the hardest thing is trying to reproduce the freezing.
From what I can tell, there's not any one thing specific that causes the problem, it 'just happens'.


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## tlc

Mars Rocket said:


> Is there any conclusive link between the freeze and the use of TiVoDesktop software? I was freeze-free for weeks and then once I started using TiVoDesktop again I started having daily freezes.


I've had the freezes and I don't use the TiVoDesktop software.


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## Lazlo123

carguy84 said:


> How about Tivo gives us a daily update on this problem and what they are doing to solve the issue? Surely the development team can't be working on much else other than this problem by now, so the daily updates should be pretty substantial.
> 
> Thanks.


I'll second that motion!


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## mike3775

Well I'm up to 3 times just today alone. 

First was on ESPN2 SD and it froze up at 7:32am
Second was on Fox HD and it froze up at 8:26 am
And third time just occurred at 9:25am on HBO SD

this is getting to be ridicoulous now.


----------



## jkalnin

mike3775 said:


> Well I'm up to 3 times just today alone.
> 
> First was on ESPN2 SD and it froze up at 7:32am
> Second was on Fox HD and it froze up at 8:26 am
> And third time just occurred at 9:25am on HBO SD
> 
> this is getting to be ridicoulous now.


See, now if Tivo was serious about fixing this they'd have this guy send in his Tivo so they can take a look at what is going on.


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## jim_h

Too hard for Tivo to reproduce? Give me a break Tivo has these 'failing' units coming in all the time as retailers swap them in response to complaints. They could pay someone minimum wage to sit in front of one, watching shows and flipping channels until it freezes, right there in the lab, after a few days at most.


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## mike1273

I bought my TiVo HD in early May. The TiVo software updated the first day. I had four freezes in three days and had to reboot. I had some HD channels drop off on my M cablecard. Then, my internet (via SuddenLink also) started to get flakey. A tech came out and found low cable signal and upped the signal. After this was done in the third week in May, I have had no problems of any kind.

TiVo sent me a request to be on their freeze testing program but, since everything works, I have decided not to participate and possibly have more problems.

Could signal strength be the issue?

mike1273


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## Langree

jim_h said:


> Too haard for Tivo to reproduce? Give me a break Tivo has these 'failing' units coming in all the time as retailers swap them in response to complaints. They could pay someone minimum wage to sit in front of it, watching shows and flipping channels until it freezes, right there in the lab, after a few days at most.


Can you produce it at will?

I've had this particular lock up twice in 6 months, I've had different lockups a couple times as well, one a few weeks ago.

Given that it happens for me so seldom, and others seemingly so often, it is very feasible that they haven't been able to get the data they need.

The causation of these particular lockups could be third party in nature, signal corruption from the cableco, power spikes/drops in the signal.

Until it can be reproduced at will it's going to be a ***** to find.


----------



## morac

steve614 said:


> I think the hardest thing is trying to reproduce the freezing.
> From what I can tell, there's not any one thing specific that causes the problem, it 'just happens'.


I think one of the issues is that it appears to be location dependent. It seems people who experience this specific problem, experience them on all HDs in their house. Sending one of them back to TiVo might not help since apparently the problem doesn't happen in TiVo's area. Maybe TiVo needs to set up satellite testing offices?

The "easiest" method of fixing this is for TiVo to build a special software load with tons of logging and debuging statements in it. Then to push this out to people experiencing the problem to try and find out what's happening. Hopefully this is what they are doing now. The only other choice is to embed their engineers in customers' homes and somehow I don't think that will fly. 

If TiVo can't figure out what's causing the problem, maybe they should add a remote code to "re-initialize" the part of the system (drivers?) that controls video playback. That way at least people could work around the problem without having to reboot.


----------



## slowdeath

MustHaveTivo said:


> we noticed it seemed to be correlated with one of us having left live TV paused earlier. We started making an effort to make sure live TV was not paused if we were walking away for a significant time, and I don't believe we have seen a single freeze since.


I think you may be on to something at least for what happens to us. We typically see the problem in the evenings on weekends after one of us has watched live TV and paused it for whatever reason and not during the week when we typically only watch recorded shows.

Since there appears to be no other solution, I think this is something we'll keep an eye on.


----------



## mike3775

I thought it may be an issue with Comcast originally, and after I posted that this morning and after the 3rd reboot(unplugging it), I have been freeze free so far. There have been a couple times where it appeared it was going to freeze though, but then worked through itself real quick

I did call Comcast and again they say its not an issue with the CC's either.


----------



## jmpage2

I used to have this problem once or twice a week, but weirdly it would only happen when my wife was using the remote. I could never figure out what she was doing differently but over the past few months and last FW update (spring 2008 update) I haven't seen the problem occur again.

It is possible that Comcast recently swapping out some of their backbone here and possibly increasing signal strength has had some impact on the problem.


----------



## IGWTAOPC

I noticed something that hasn't been mentioned before. On Saturday night I checked the system info screens and a number of the fields were not filled in. It did not list my lifetime service, the internal temperature or either indexing times. I believe there were other fields missing, but I didn't take careful note of them. Anyway, this didn't look good to me so I did a soft reboot. Watched one show after that, then went to sleep. On Sunday morning I see jittery video that is fixable by the back up and play response. I start a program from Now Playing that is still being recorded and maybe a minute into it the unit freezes. I was called away, so left it like that for a couple of minutes and when I came back to it, it was rebooting of it's own will. The second tuner was also recording at the time of the freeze. After the reboot both recordings started on there own, but the first part of the recording from the second tuner had been placed in the recently deleted folder which seemed odd. It was recoverable as it should be. Also after the reboot I saw the jittery video a couple more times early on, but later in the day all seemed well and I watched quite a bit of TV that day.

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)
652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?
HDMI

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)? aspect: full. video: Native

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
I bought the unit in mid May. A freeze occurred about two and half weeks later-soft reboot, and then the next day and another soft reboot. I sent 777clear key sequences with these before rebooting. About two good weeks follow then we have a series of power failures over a three day period so a number of hard reboots occur with that. Another two and half or so good weeks then what I described above happened. If there is anything of note today I'll report back.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?
Menu.

6> If you've ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.
As described above.

Other info. OTA only, WD extender, wired Ethernet, no TivoDesktop.

One other incident happened about six days ago. While I pretty much exclusively tune or record from the digital channels, I did try to tune to a weak analog channel (quite snowy) that isn't yet available to me in digital form and the unit did freeze. On switching away to a digital channel all seemed well until the problem this weekend.


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## wkm001

My TivoHD will stop displaying live tv after just 5-10 minutes of watching tv. I haven't had the chance to record anything yet. I'm sending it back for an exchange this week. Does anyone think this will solve anything?

Casey


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## wdpower

My two cents...

After I installed the TiVo desktop on my pc I have trouble with playing videos. Something about the wrong codecs, I'm assuming the TiVo uses codecs and maybe something there is messed up.


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## jmpage2

wdpower said:


> My two cents...
> 
> After I installed the TiVo desktop on my pc I have trouble with playing videos. Something about the wrong codecs, I'm assuming the TiVo uses codecs and maybe something there is messed up.


This issue has been going on for a long time, please see this thread for some info about the problem and a few potential solutions. This issue has nothing to do with the Tivo freeze issue being discussed in this thread.


----------



## BobB

wdpower said:


> After I installed the TiVo desktop on my pc I have trouble with playing videos. Something about the wrong codecs, I'm assuming the TiVo uses codecs and maybe something there is messed up.


Almost certainly just coincidence. Read through this thread and you'll find that people have been getting basically the same symptoms regardless of whether they use Desktop or not, have a My DVR Expander or not, or any other variables. The only thing they have in common is they own a TiVoHD.

Lots of people out here have speculated as to what may have caused it in their particular case, typically blaming it on whatever random event occurred (or they happened to be doing) just before the first freeze occurred.

It reminds me of a story from Psychology 101: A rat is put into a cage where all he has to do is press a lever to get a food pellet. But the rat is more interested in getting out, so he jumps up and grabs the rim of the cage with his claws, manages to scrabble around the perimeter of the cage, then finally slips and falls on the lever. Voila! Food! So he jumps back up where he started before, scrabbles around the perimeter, drops on the lever again - more food! Works like a charm! Moral: don't confuse sequentiality with causality.

(This phenomenon, by the way, is also the origin of religion and most other forms of superstition).


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## BobB

carguy84 said:


> How about Tivo gives us a daily update on this problem and what they are doing to solve the issue? Surely the development team can't be working on much else other than this problem by now, so the daily updates should be pretty substantial.
> 
> Thanks.


Another vote for daily updates. It would go a long way toward shoring up the goodwill of us long-time TiVo supporters who are getting increasingly frustrated by how long it's taking you to find a fix.


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## Langree

BobB said:


> Another vote for daily updates. It would go a long way toward shoring up the goodwill of us long-time TiVo supporters who are getting increasingly frustrated by how long it's taking you to find a fix.


You do realize most days that update would be "we're still working on it."

You expect them to go into detail of what was done that day?


----------



## Lazlo123

Langree said:


> You do realize most days that update would be "we're still working on it."
> 
> You expect them to go into detail of what was done that day?


Yup, it'd be good to know. At this point, we don't even have "we're still working on it". For all we know, they're not. They've given up and said we can't fix it, we don't want to, lets move on and not tell anyone.

edit: just an observation... There have been over 34,000 views of this post. I wonder how many of those views were from people typing "Tivo HD" in google to research before purchasing, and have decided to not purchase based on this thread.


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## jmpage2

Lazlo123 said:


> Yup, it'd be good to know. At this point, we don't even have "we're still working on it". For all we know, they're not. They've given up and said we can't fix it, we don't want to, lets move on and not tell anyone.


I think it's rather unlikely that Tivo will want their developers spending valuable time updating a changelog, blog, etc, with daily notes about their work, which might not include work on the freeze bug on a day to day basis.

The alternative, in which a manager reads developer notes and then tries to relay a progress report would be even worse.


----------



## Langree

Lazlo123 said:


> Yup, it'd be good to know. At this point, we don't even have "we're still working on it". For all we know, they're not. They've given up and said we can't fix it, we don't want to, lets move on and not tell anyone.


Jerry posting in this thread should tell you otherwise, at this point even this thread is becoming just more of the same.

Until and unless this bug can be repeated in a controlled situation it's going to be a pain to find and fix.


----------



## dubluv

my hd just freezes up, nothing responds. is that another issue altogether, or part of this one? it sometimes will become responsive again a while later, as i've just gone to bed, and the next day it will be fine.


----------



## Langree

dubluv said:


> my hd just freezes up, nothing responds. is that another issue altogether, or part of this one? it sometimes will become responsive again a while later, as i've just gone to bed, and the next day it will be fine.


Different issue then the one this thread addresses.


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## hiddentrout

moyekj said:


> I think it's more a case of not being able to reproduce the problem in their environment. As with any software problem, once you can reliably reproduce the problem the fix is much easier.


...I'm with the "are you kidding me?" crowd.

On my father's TWO Tivos, this happens any number of times PER DAY.

Reading through here, he's far from alone, so I can't imagine this should be particularly difficult to reproduce.

As others pointed out, heck, send an engineer into the field if they really wanted to sort this and are actually unable to reproduce it in the lab, because there's no shortage of folks having problems in real life.

My $.o2...


----------



## Frank78

Thank you to all who have posted to this site. It has been helpful.

My Tivo Series 3 has been freezing and restarting for the past two months. Sometimes it will work for about 2 hours, sometimes it won't make it past the home menu.

I have been in contact with customer support for the past 6-7 weeks. Here is the timeline of responses:
- Call 1: Do a hard reboot (unplug and plug it back in): did not work, call back in three days
- Call 2 (three days later): We now know there is an issue with the 9.3a software release, it should be fixed in a few weeks
- Call 3 (a few weeks later): The Tivo tech group continues to address the issue, it should be fixed by the end of June. They passed me to the finance department and they gave me a three month service credit.
- Call 4 (end of June): The box you have needs to be exchanged. You can either go to a retail store, or purchase a refurbished box from Tivo for $149. Otherwise, I can wait 6-7 more weeks to see if it fixes itself.​
I told them I did not want to purchase another Tivo. Considering they gave me service credit until November, I will wait it out. (Just called the cable company and got one of their DVRs)

Just as an FYI - if you ever have any trouble call and ask for a service credit.


----------



## hiddentrout

Frank78 said:


> Thank you to all who have posted to this site. It has been helpful.
> 
> My Tivo Series 3 has been freezing and restarting for the past two months. Sometimes it will work for about 2 hours, sometimes it won't make it past the home menu.
> 
> I have been in contact with customer support for the past 6-7 weeks. Here is the timeline of responses:
> - Call 1: Do a hard reboot (unplug and plug it back in): did not work, call back in three days
> - Call 2 (three days later): We now know there is an issue with the 9.3a software release, it should be fixed in a few weeks
> - Call 3 (a few weeks later): The Tivo tech group continues to address the issue, it should be fixed by the end of June. They passed me to the finance department and they gave me a three month service credit.
> - Call 4 (end of June): The box you have needs to be exchanged. You can either go to a retail store, or purchase a refurbished box from Tivo for $149. Otherwise, I can wait 6-7 more weeks to see if it fixes itself.​
> I told them I did not want to purchase another Tivo. Considering they gave me service credit until November, I will wait it out. (Just called the cable company and got one of their DVRs)
> 
> Just as an FYI - if you ever have any trouble call and ask for a service credit.


I confess I've not read all 600 posts in this thread, but aren't the responses in calls three and four contradictory?

I mean, unless they're no longer rolling out the new software update to newly-purchased S3s, then the receiving a new unit wouldn't be helpful...

But that's what many folks seem to have heard, "Purchase a refurb and you'll be fixed."

Am I missing something..?


----------



## Frank78

Yeah, I have the least amount of confidence in the last person I spoke to. I am hoping that the software will fix my box.

I just wanted everyone to know they are handing out service credits.


----------



## Langree

Frank78 said:


> My Tivo Series 3 has been freezing and restarting for the past two months. Sometimes it will work for about 2 hours, sometimes it won't make it past the home menu.


Yours may be a different issue.


----------



## insane42

Figured I'd chime in on this one.

Just started happening to me recently (last two weeks or so?). Random in nature, nothing specific that seems to cause it.

Video will freeze, while audio continues for about 3 or 4 seconds. Then no audio. If I rewind for a second then hit play, it goes on just fine.


----------



## jeffinaz

The freezing is now multiple times every day. This started when I got the upgrade on the SA card. Anyone else in Phoenix area experiencing this problem?


----------



## morac

Frank78 said:


> Yeah, I have the least amount of confidence in the last person I spoke to. I am hoping that the software will fix my box.


Actually the last person seems the most credible. If the entire box is locking up (including the menus) that's a different problem and most likely something is wrong with the drive.


----------



## carguy84

> The alternative, in which a manager reads developer notes and then tries to relay a progress report would be even worse.


Isn't that their job, though? Some sort of project manager or product manager is the go between for developers and corp, they could easily provide us the daily update, although I think it would read like this:

July 1: Played COD4
July 2: Beat COD4
July 3: LONG WEEKEND w00t!
July 7: Played COD4 online
July 8: Researched a new game, only h4ck3rz playing COD4 online
July 9: Worked on a stronger DRM for TiVo files
July 10: Ate bad chicken curry, don't use lower bathroom today
July 11: Turned my TiVo on, it didn't freeze, reported to PM: "Cannot reproduce".


----------



## danmcd

Sigh! We're noticing these freezes too as of yesterday. We thought it might be power-flicker related, but the symptoms are too similar to what we've seen here, and we've seen very occasional freezes (recoverable) prior to the power-flicker.

On to the questions:

1> What are the first three digits of your TSN? (648 or 652)

652

2> Are you using HDMI or component video?

Component

3> What are your video settings (aspect correction mode, TV aspect ratio [there are three choices], video output format)?

Full video, 16x9, full video.

4> How soon does the problem return after a restart?
< 24 hours after the power-flicker. I wonder if a recent software upgrade kicked in with a bug?

I just rebooted menu-style, and am anxiously waiting another failure.

5> Are you restarting from the menu or by unplugging?

First time, power-flicker (t-storm here in Mass), now with the menu.

6> If youve ever been present to see the video switch from fluid to static, please include as many details as possible about what was going on.

Have not been present for any failures.

Other info: Wired Ethernet, multi-stream Cable card from Comcast (installed by the installer quite well -- I think he was schooled by someone who hangs out here), I think it's a Motorola.

I'll be hanging out here.


----------



## wdpower

jmpage2 said:


> This issue has been going on for a long time, please see this thread for some info about the problem and a few potential solutions. This issue has nothing to do with the Tivo freeze issue being discussed in this thread.


This problem is different than that. My videos will turn green or freeze, sometimes just jitter. Not get truncated. I had someone tell me the fix before and I had to turn down TiVo's codec and use the windows one, never had a problem till I upgrade TD.



BobB said:


> Almost certainly just coincidence. Read through this thread and you'll find that people have been getting basically the same symptoms regardless of whether they use Desktop or not, have a My DVR Expander or not, or any other variables. The only thing they have in common is they own a TiVoHD.


I'm not saying this caused it. I don't think a program on my PC that has never been used to download from this TiVo could have had anything to do with it. I was referring to any codecs used by the software inside TiVo. It is acting similar to the issues I had on my PC with wrong/bad codec from TD.


----------



## petermauro

Me too


----------



## JohnDopp

Hi guys,
I spoke with a Tivo rep today (Shauna), who told me that a fix is being tested and is planned for distribution in mid-July.

Woot! Fingers crossed... I've missed channel-surfing!


----------



## TiVoJerry

We've been working on this issue for awhile and have reached a point where we want to bring more of you into an early access program to extend the reach of the investigation. 

Since this is a long thread, I'll reiterate the qualifications:
1> You have a TiVo HD (652 prefix only)
2> You are experiencing frozen (still frame) video but are still able to access menus and the guide normally. In other words, your DVR is not locked up.
3> You can resolve the issue by either changing channels, using trickplay (FF, RWD, etc), or by restarting the DVR. 

Keep in mind that if you join the early access program, you will be running pre-release software which is not in its final form. There is the possibility that it may introduce issues that you are currently not experiencing. 

If you are interested in joining, please contact our customer support line at 1-877-367-8486 and let our Support Representative know the issue you are experiencing and that you heard about early access program through the forums. This should reduce any confusion around the purpose and handling of your call. The Technical Support Representative may perform some general troubleshooting steps to make sure you're not experiencing a different issue, after which you'll receive an email inviting you to join the program. Each invitation is for the specific individual and TSN, so we ask that it not be passed around. If you want to join up, we want you to call us first.

Joining the early access program requires that you sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and you will have to report your technical issues (unrelated to lineup or accounting issues) to the EA team even if you have an existing case with Customer Support.


----------



## steve614

Woo Hoo! Beta Testing!


----------



## jy3

steve614 said:


> Woo Hoo! Beta Testing!


Is Tivo owned by Bill Gates?????


----------



## steve614

jy3 said:


> Is Tivo owned by Bill Gates


What? Is "beta test" a Microsoft copyrighted term?  

Edit: caught your 'ninja edit'.


----------



## hiddentrout

TiVoJerry said:


> We've been working on this issue for awhile and have reached a point where we want to bring more of you into an early access program to extend the reach of the investigation.
> 
> Since this is a long thread, I'll reiterate the qualifications:
> 1> You have a TiVo HD (652 prefix only)...


TJ - should we take this to mean that Tivo believes this specific issue is only affecting 652s, and that those of us affected with 648s are suffering from some separate issue (which just coincidentally happens too have occurred at nearly exactly the same time as the 652s)..?

...or, alternatively, that the current efforts are simply focused on resolving issues with the 652s only?

Thanks.


----------



## drWatson23

TJ,

Thank you for giving us an update! There is now hope 

Even though my Tivo HD suffers these symptoms, I personally will not join due to the fact that wife/family would hang me if the test version of the sofware would somehow corrupt any of the shows.

Please continue posting results to keep us informed.


----------



## TiVoJerry

hiddentrout said:


> TJ - should we take this to mean that Tivo believes this specific issue is only affecting 652s, and that those of us affected with 648s are suffering from some separate issue (which just coincidentally happens too have occurred at nearly exactly the same time as the 652s)..?
> 
> ...or, alternatively, that the current efforts are simply focused on resolving issues with the 652s only?
> 
> Thanks.


To date, all reports that I know of for the 648 prefix unit have also been accompanied by more severe symptoms such as system slowdown/lockup, inability to access menus, or reboots. We performed analysis of these units and found them to have bad drives.

As such, it's been a bit difficult to separate the reports coming into the call centers because the symptom has been reported as "freezing". We had to clarify to the agents the difference between "freezing video only" and "freezing" as it related to units that are totally locked up.


----------



## carguy84

How much do beta testers get paid?


----------



## Langree

carguy84 said:


> How much do beta testers get paid?


HAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Mars Rocket

TiVoJerry - the e-mail invite basically says "if you've unofficially upgraded your TiVo, don't join the beta test". Can you expand on that? I sent a reply e-mail asking about it but I wasn't sure if anybody would actually be allowed to say anything. Maybe you're not either, but it can't hurt to ask.

Is the wording in the invite just for liability purposes, or do you really not want people like me to join in? I'd think I was a prime candidate for testing otherwise...I'm getting daily freezes now.


----------



## jakerock

I am glad I checked this today. I have been having locks up since we went from two single stream cards to an M card a few weeks back. We haven't been watching that much TV on the unit that locks up (we have 2 HD units) so it seems to be locked up EVERY time I go to use it.

I am on hold now. Is that TiVoShanon talking to me?


----------



## JustAllie

jakerock said:


> I am on hold now. Is that TiVoShanon talking to me?


I recognized the voice too!!


----------



## jakerock

OK I have been on hold for about 30 minutes. The rep didn't know what I was talking about then told me how to sign up for beta testing (nothing specific about the HD problem or a beta test for it).

I am already a beta tester and have not heard anything in beta testing about the HD problem. I thought the present testing was related to Series 2 units. Since I am in the program (and my HD unit is freezing) I don't know what to do.

Either she is confused (which certainly is the case even if her information is correct) or I am.


----------



## greg_burns

jakerock said:


> OK I have been on hold for about 30 minutes. The rep didn't know what I was talking about then told me how to sign up for beta testing (nothing specific about the HD problem or a beta test for it).
> 
> I am already a beta tester and have not heard anything in beta testing about the HD problem. I thought the present testing was related to Series 2 units. Since I am in the program (and my HD unit is freezing) I don't know what to do.
> 
> Either she is confused (which certain is the case even if her information is correct) or I am.


You may want to read a couple posts above yours...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6439403#post6439403


----------



## jakerock

OK she has told me that there is no such software available to be beta tested. In effect that TiVoJerry is a lying stinking rotten person. OK now she is looking at this thread. Which is really weird since I am typing about her reading this thread.


----------



## jakerock

greg_burns said:


> You may want to read a couple posts above yours...
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6439403#post6439403


Unless I am mistaken you are pointing me to TiVoJerry's post that said to call CS and get signed up for beta testing. Not sure what I am missing since I am on the phone with CS. This is all becoming very weird for me. 

OK I have now moved up to level 2 support. Hopefully when you are level 2 you get the power of providing beta software to HD owners. Anyone know how long I have to wait at level 2 before getting enough experience points to move to level 3?

WTF? I have been disconnected and am now getting quizzed on my experience. Well this isn't going to be a good rating. ARGGG!


----------



## JustAllie

jakerock said:


> OK she has told me that there is no such software available to be beta tested. In effect that TiVoJerry is a lying stinking rotten person. OK now she is looking at this thread. Which is really weird since I am typing about her reading this thread.


If you keep this up, you're going to cause a rift in the space-time continuum.


----------



## greg_burns

jakerock said:


> Unless I am mistaken you are pointing me to TiVoJerry's post that said to call CS and get signed up for beta testing. Now sure what I am missing since I am on the phone with CS. This is all becoming very weird for me.


If you are already signed up, why do you need to get signed up?


----------



## jakerock

greg_burns said:


> If you are already signed up, why do you need to get signed up?


If the beta software that I am testing now is the stuff that is supposed to fix the freezing problem then we have a problem. 

OK I am back on hold again starting at level 1. Now reporting a 10 minute wait to talk to the first person who will probably not know what I am talking about and may very well disconnect me again.

It goes with out saying (but I am saying it) I am not a happy customer at this point.


----------



## Langree

Mars Rocket said:


> TiVoJerry - the e-mail invite basically says "if you've unofficially upgraded your TiVo, don't join the beta test". Can you expand on that? I sent a reply e-mail asking about it but I wasn't sure if anybody would actually be allowed to say anything. Maybe you're not either, but it can't hurt to ask.
> 
> Is the wording in the invite just for liability purposes, or do you really not want people like me to join in? I'd think I was a prime candidate for testing otherwise...I'm getting daily freezes now.


If you've upgraded your THD in any way that's not supported by TiVo (The MyDVR Expander is the only official upgrade I know of). They can't rule out your upgrades as a cause of some of your issues. So from a testing standpoint hacked/unoficially upgraded units are no good to them.


----------



## greg_burns

You may want to ask these questions in your beta's specific forum. Not sure how many betas are currently running, but probably get a more informed answer there. (Unless Jerry can explain.)


----------



## jakerock

After another very long hold time, Rusty the level 1 guy was happy and quick to tell me that there were no level 2 support people available. He has taken my phone number and indicates that he will pass it on to a level 2 person who will call me as soon as they can.

Anyone want to put money on that call ever arriving? It is 10:30AM here now IF I ever get a phone call I will post it here. Until then I have to say that TiVo CS isn't winning any awards this morning. 

*TiVoJerry (I think) called me and left a voice mail and I am set up with the beta. THANKS!*

Note: I don't know what I can or can't say about the beta that I am in but it isn't related to the HD issue.


----------



## jkalnin

You lost me at step 1: Calling Tivo and talking to a service rep.

Next time why don't you make joining easier: I could walk across hot coals, pierce myself with hundred of needles, or even cut off one of my body parts.

Any of these options are better then calling up Tivo customer support.


----------



## jakerock

jkalnin said:


> I could walk across hot coals, pierce myself with hundred of needles, or even cut off one of my body parts.


What? I didn't know those were options. How do I do this because that would be easier than dealing with TiVo CS. For the record I have not heard from TiVo they haven't called me back from my earlier 1.5 hour on-hold then hang up on me wait. :down: Not surprised, just reporting the situation.

For what it is worth the survey that they asked me to complete for my customer service experience didn't have an option for CS rep was not able to resolve your issue, nor CS rep disconnected you. None of the options related to that level of bad service, so I don't think their survey is properly providing information that might be helpful to them.

Sort of like asking a ship wreck survivor to rate the food service.


----------



## yroca

I got through yesterday after 20 minutes or so, but then had to hold for level 2 for another 20. He took my TSN and other info and said I should receive an email. How long did it take you guys to receive the email?


----------



## Mars Rocket

Langree said:


> If you've upgraded your THD in any way that's not supported by TiVo (The MyDVR Expander is the only official upgrade I know of). They can't rule out your upgrades as a cause of some of your issues. So from a testing standpoint hacked/unoficially upgraded units are no good to them.


My point is that there are a *lot* of user-upgraded TiVos out there, and they need to make sure their software works on it as well so at some point they need people with user-upgraded systems to run the beta software.

My TiVo ran fine until the 9.3 update came along, so I'm pretty sure it's not happening because of my bigger hard drive.


----------



## Langree

Mars Rocket said:


> My point is that there are a *lot* of user-upgraded TiVos out there, and they need to make sure their software works on it as well so at some point they need people with user-upgraded systems to run the beta software.
> 
> My TiVo ran fine until the 9.3 update came along, so I'm pretty sure it's not happening because of my bigger hard drive.


Thing is, from a tech standpoint they need to get it functioning on a "factory unit", then they can more better deal with issues on user upgraded systems.

If they throw user upgraded systems in from the start "where to look" gets convoluted.


----------



## jim_h

I've made some negative posts in this thread, but to be fair, I have to say that considering all that a Tivo does, this extremely complex system is highly reliable. My Series 2 had frequent problems with the wifi link - other than that, it was 100&#37; for years. I have to remind myself that the 'freezing' bug is in fact the ONLY bug I've encountered. What comparable software product could I name, that has exactly 1 significant bug? 

Tivo's real weakness is that it's a closed black box system, so for example I had no way to actually diagnose the wifi problems with the Series 2. Any update is a massive "push" by Tivo to all users, requiring big bandwidth, and entailing a lot of risk.


----------



## tiassa

jkalnin said:


> You lost me at step 1: Calling Tivo and talking to a service rep.
> 
> Next time why don't you make joining easier: I could walk across hot coals, pierce myself with hundred of needles, or even cut off one of my body parts.
> 
> Any of these options are better then calling up Tivo customer support.


I agree, TivoJerry, can you set up a ticket number or "Magic Phrase" to get entered into this aspect of the beta program? That way when we get to 1st level support all we need to do is say "I'd like to be in the TivoJerry Freeze beta" then the support person could verify the details and move things along.


----------



## jakerock

I just got an email to enter the beta. I think this was probably due help from TiVoJerry (as opposed to my ill fated dealings with CS). When I followed the email link, I signed the NDA and got to a page that said "Register these TSNs with the program" or something like that. There were no TSNs listed and I could do nothing but check "Submit" so I don't know if I am registered correctly or not.

Since my TSNs were already in the beta system from the ongoing beta test (not related to the HD freeze) my only hope is that the TSNs are automatically registered.

Did anyone else have a different experience (or the same)?


----------



## Langree

jakerock said:


> Since my TSNs were already in the beta system from the ongoing beta test (not related to the HD freeze) my only hope is that the TSNs are automatically registered.


You do know what an NDA is right?


----------



## jcthorne

If your only upgrade is a larger drive and you are having the lockup problem, I would sign up for the beta test.....


----------



## Langree

jcthorne said:


> If your only upgrade is a larger drive and you are having the lockup problem, I would sign up for the beta test.....


If it's not the MyDVR Expander they don't want you to, it states it explicitly.


----------



## BobB

jakerock said:


> I just got an email to enter the beta. I think this was probably due help from TiVoJerry (as opposed to my ill fated dealings with CS). When I followed the email link, I signed the NDA and got to a page that said "Register these TSNs with the program" or something like that. There were no TSNs listed and I could do nothing but check "Submit" so I don't know if I am registered correctly or not.
> 
> Since my TSNs were already in the beta system from the ongoing beta test (not related to the HD freeze) my only hope is that the TSNs are automatically registered.
> 
> Did anyone else have a different experience (or the same)?


Not quite the same, but then this is my first time in a TiVo beta program so I was not surprised I had to register my machine. I was a bit surprised to find that my existing TiVo Central user account did not carry over to this one and I had to create a new login from scratch, but so be it.

I had a much easier time of it with CS than you though. About ten minutes waiting on hold for someone to pick up the call, and the guy who answered knew what I was talking about and immediately went off to find a Level 2 CSR, which took another ten minutes. Now I'm all logged in and waiting for my HD box to receive the beta software upgrade. Fingers crossed!


----------



## jakerock

Langree said:


> You do know what an NDA is right?


Yes but since TiVoJerry mentioned a beta in a public forum I am implying that knowledge that a beta program exists is not protected. Thus saying another beta exists probably isn't protected information either. I was very careful to say information I thought was relevant that shouldn't have been an issue and was public.

Unless part of the test is how the web interface for beta works in which case...ARG what have I done?


----------



## BobB

jakerock said:


> Since my TSNs were already in the beta system from the ongoing beta test (not related to the HD freeze) my only hope is that the TSNs are automatically registered.


If you go to your beta site home page and click Manage Platforms on the left you can see which of your machines are registered.


----------



## TiVoJerry

Mars Rocket said:


> TiVoJerry - the e-mail invite basically says "if you've unofficially upgraded your TiVo, don't join the beta test". Can you expand on that? I sent a reply e-mail asking about it but I wasn't sure if anybody would actually be allowed to say anything. Maybe you're not either, but it can't hurt to ask.
> 
> Is the wording in the invite just for liability purposes, or do you really not want people like me to join in? I'd think I was a prime candidate for testing otherwise...I'm getting daily freezes now.


That's standard language for us that has not been modified for this invitation. We don't want to spend time troubleshooting issues on those models. We recently found out that Series3 models with a particular Seagate 750gb esata drive were stuck starting up because those drives don't power up quickly enough.

You can have a drive that works wonderfully for however long but we cannot guarante future performance on drives we never supported in the first place. Caveat emptor.



jakerock said:


> When I followed the email link, I signed the NDA and got to a page that said "Register these TSNs with the program" or something like that. There were no TSNs listed and I could do nothing but check "Submit" so I don't know if I am registered correctly or not.
> 
> Since my TSNs were already in the beta system from the ongoing beta test (not related to the HD freeze) my only hope is that the TSNs are automatically registered.


You should be able to enter your TSN(s). They are not entered automatically for you.

Let's not talk about who is being sent invitations from this point on, please. Just because the fact that there is an invitation was made public doesn't mean it's open season to discuss your participation. The NDA still applies.

Thank you.


----------



## mark03110

TivoJerry,

I have a 652 unit that has exhibited the symptoms you mentioned qualifies for the invite but I have also encountered most of the other problems you associate with the 648 units (lockups, reboots, etc).

So what camp do I fall into? Should I call and get on the list or is there going to be more work done for those of us with more serious issues?

Thanks,
Mark

p.s. I have an unmodified TivoHD with the WD My-DVR expander with a single M-Card. I've been having the reboots and lockups and freezes since I bought it a couple months ago.


----------



## TiVoJerry

mark03110 said:


> TivoJerry,
> 
> I have a 652 unit that has exhibited the symptoms you mentioned qualifies for the invite but I have also encountered most of the other problems you associate with the 648 units (lockups, reboots, etc).
> 
> So what camp do I fall into? Should I call and get on the list or is there going to be more work done for those of us with more serious issues?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> p.s. I have an unmodified TivoHD with the WD My-DVR expander with a single M-Card. I've been having the reboots and lockups and freezes since I bought it a couple months ago.


Are the video freeze incidents accompanied by lockups and/or reboots, or do they happen separately? If they happen together, I'd consider your issue to be different than in this thread and advise you call in for troubleshooting and a possible exchange.

Even if they are happening separately, you may still want to call in for TS & possible exchange, but you can also join in the EA program if you like.


----------



## mark03110

TiVoJerry said:


> Are the video freeze incidents accompanied by lockups and/or reboots, or do they happen separately? If they happen together, I'd consider your issue to be different than in this thread and advise you call in for troubleshooting and a possible exchange.
> 
> Even if they are happening separately, you may still want to call in for TS & possible exchange, but you can also join in the EA program if you like.


The most common issue I have is random reboots when everything else seems fine. I also encounter lockups where the screen is black and no input works, need to pull the power to recover. Then I also run into the issue where a channel will freeze and if I change channels the video plays for 1-2 seconds, freezes and then the audio stops shortly after that. But I can usually recover from that by changing to a non-digital channel and going back.

I've spoken to TS before and they told me to remove my cable card for a few days and see if that fixes it. While that did stop the problems, I was never tuned to a HD or digital channel during that time so I think it just masked the problem instead of being the problem. As for it being a hard drive issue, I would have expected to see some sort of issues without the cable card installed.

Is there a way when I call TS to skip the first level support and speak directly to an engineer who may be able to help me more? I'm a H/W test engineer for Sun Microsystems and sometimes speaking to the 1st level support it can feel like I know more about the box then they do. Not to knock them as they have always been very helpful in wanting to solve the problem and I've never had an unpleasant encounter with a TS rep.


----------



## TiVoJerry

mark03110 said:


> The most common issue I have is random reboots when everything else seems fine. I also encounter lockups where the screen is black and no input works, need to pull the power to recover. Then I also run into the issue where a channel will freeze and if I change channels the video plays for 1-2 seconds, freezes and then the audio stops shortly after that. But I can usually recover from that by changing to a non-digital channel and going back.
> 
> I've spoken to TS before and they told me to remove my cable card for a few days and see if that fixes it. While that did stop the problems, I was never tuned to a HD or digital channel during that time so I think it just masked the problem instead of being the problem. As for it being a hard drive issue, I would have expected to see some sort of issues without the cable card installed.
> 
> Is there a way when I call TS to skip the first level support and speak directly to an engineer who may be able to help me more? I'm a H/W test engineer for Sun Microsystems and sometimes speaking to the 1st level support it can feel like I know more about the box then they do. Not to knock them as they have always been very helpful in wanting to solve the problem and I've never had an unpleasant encounter with a TS rep.


If you send me a PM with your TSN I will attempt to get the ball rolling before I go out of the office for the next few days.


----------



## ogre73

I just got my HD Tivo 2 weeks ago, and yes, I had read this thread before buying. I decided to try it anyway, as this is a refurbished unit and I was hoping that if it was a hardware or firmware issue they would have resolved it in this box. Guess not. I am currently on hold with tech support. The first rep I got kept giving me a boxed, vanilla response of "The beta software is being worked on, the issue is known..." I said Don, I understand you are to read me a pre-written response, but if you can't or won't help me become a beta tester, I need to speak with a Level 2 technician.

I was on the phone for 45 minutes with CS, but I did finally get to speak with a Tier 2 rep, who set me up for the beta.


----------



## JohnDopp

I had the same experience as Ogre73. You'll probably need to escalate before you find someone who knows about the beta -- there's nothing in the preprinted three-ring binder of official Tivo CS Answers about it.


----------



## TiVoJerry

Folks, I'd like to remind you that you need to call in to be put in the Early Access Program. I've had a number of people decide to PM me directly rather than call in.

Private Messaging takes a bit of back and forth to make sure you've self-diagnosed properly. There have been too many times where someone will assume they have the same issue as other people. We need to have our agents filter these reports out so as not to dilute the investigation.

Aside from the fact that I am on vacation for the next few days, I really don't want to handle this type of volume personally. I'm sorry, but it's in our best interest and yours. If you don't want to deal with the inconvenience of calling in, you might want to hold off on joining Early Access.


----------



## hiddentrout

TiVoJerry said:


> ...We recently found out that Series3 models with a particular Seagate 750gb esata drive were stuck starting up because those drives don't power up quickly enough.
> 
> You can have a drive that works wonderfully for however long but we cannot guarante future performance on drives we never supported in the first place. Caveat emptor...


Hrmmmm...

If I translate that correctly, it sounds like "Some S3 owners who had a (particular model) of a Seagate 750gb esata drive, will no longer be able to use those (previously fully-functional) drives with the latest software update."

Is that right?

The 648 I'm suddenly having problems with, indeed, uses a particular 750gb Seagate esata drive (though without model number I'm unable to confirm a match).

If my quasi-translation is correct, it would be disappointing to find software updates rendered previously functional HW incompatible.

Would one be aware of this particular incompatibility outside this forum..?


----------



## greg_burns

hiddentrout said:


> Would one be aware of this particular incompatibility outside this forum..?


Any eSata drive solution other than the WD My DVR Expander is *unsupported*.

/devil's advocate


----------



## hiddentrout

greg_burns said:


> Any eSata drive solution other than the WD My DVR Expander is *unsupported*.
> 
> /devil's advocate


...unsupported is a bit different for the Tivo HD vs the S3 (652 vs 648).

Many (I'd guess *most*) of us here were using esata on the S3s *before* the port was "officially" enabled, or before there was any such thing as a "supported or "unsupported" list.

So, while I appreciate your eagerness to act as an apologist, I'm rather more interested in understanding if I heard TJ correctly and, if so, how one might determine which _specific_ Seagate model he was talking about.

(...and again, if correct, it would be disappointing for those folks affected to find out that HW that was worked *perfectly* with their S3s, since inception, has been rendered incompatible)


----------



## Langree

hiddentrout said:


> Hrmmmm...
> 
> If I translate that correctly, it sounds like "Some S3 owners who had a (particular model) of a Seagate 750gb esata drive, will no longer be able to use those (previously fully-functional) drives with the latest software update."
> 
> Is that right?
> 
> The 648 I'm suddenly having problems with, indeed, uses a particular 750gb Seagate esata drive (though without model number I'm unable to confirm a match).
> 
> If my quasi-translation is correct, it would be disappointing to find software updates rendered previously functional HW incompatible.
> 
> Would one be aware of this particular incompatibility outside this forum..?


Actually he said it was an issue of the esata drive booting to slow. that's the caveat of using an unsupported drive. It's no conspiracy on TiVo's part or they'd simply have issues with all non supported drives, not just the one.


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## greg_burns

Just stating the obvious for those who missed it.


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## hiddentrout

Langree said:


> Actually he said it was an issue of the esata drive booting to slow. that's the caveat of using an unsupported drive. It's no conspiracy on TiVo's part or they'd simply have issues with all non supported drives, not just the one.


I'm not claiming retail partner conspiracy.

I'm simply asking if I understood that correctly, that folks with particular esata drives which *had been 100% functional since the S3 port was able to be activated* (which was well before "official" activation) were now rendered unusable.

The boot time for the mysterious model in question hasn't changed, it's the software that changed and (apparently) rendered the drive incompatible.


----------



## Langree

hiddentrout said:


> I'm not claiming retail partner conspiracy.
> 
> I'm simply asking if I understood that correctly, that folks with particular esata drives which *had been 100% functional since the S3 port was able to be activated* (which was well before "official" activation) were now rendered unusable.
> 
> The boot time for the mysterious model in question hasn't changed, it's the software that changed and (apparently) rendered the drive incompatible.


Thing is, even if changes to their software has rendered the drive incompatable, which is possible, since they wouldn't do any QA against non supported drives. It really is a risk any of us takes when we hack a box.


----------



## TiVoJerry

hiddentrout said:


> I'm not claiming retail partner conspiracy.
> 
> I'm simply asking if I understood that correctly, that folks with particular esata drives which *had been 100% functional since the S3 port was able to be activated* (which was well before "official" activation) were now rendered unusable.
> 
> The boot time for the mysterious model in question hasn't changed, it's the software that changed and (apparently) rendered the drive incompatible.


Then let me be less than cryptic. In very recent testing, multiple Seagate FreeAgent Pro 750gb drives were determined to write to disk slowly enough to cause performance problems. The drive also appears to have some type of basic incompatability with the SATA controller (throws out a lot of drive status CRC errors). This could be caused by a bad or flaky cable, or even electromagnetic noise on one or two drives, but we saw it across the board. Those problems have been there since day one but may not have been particularly noticeable to the customer.

If a problem arises during startup, the external drive might be detected as unsupported or not be recognized at all. Multiple restarts would likely get around the incompatability, but YMMV.

If you want to discuss this new issue further, please do so in a new thread. This one is contentious enough with it being hijacked, too. Thank you.


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## hiddentrout

TiVoJerry said:


> If you want to discuss this new issue further, please do so in a new thread. This one is contentious enough with it being hijacked, too. Thank you.


Fair enough Jerry.

Thanks for answering my question, and I'll start a new thread if need be.


----------



## bengalfreak

Mars Rocket said:


> My point is that there are a *lot* of user-upgraded TiVos out there, and they need to make sure their software works on it as well.


No, they don't. If you upgraded your Tivo using a stated non-supported method, tivo is under no obligation whatsoever to make sure their software works with your hardware.


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## Mars Rocket

bengalfreak said:


> No, they don't. If you upgraded your Tivo using a stated non-supported method, tivo is under no obligation whatsoever to make sure their software works with your hardware.


They're under an implicit obligation for having stood by and not said *anything* contrary about people doing upgrades (that they clearly knew about) for the past 8 years or so, and for even supporting warranty repairs on upgraded systems when the problem was not the drive.

If nothing else TiVo owes the hacker community a great deal of gratitude for supporting the platform and evangelizing it for them for all those years. There's even some businesses built on the concept of upgrading TiVos. It would cause them a tremendous amount of bad publicity if they suddenly threw that all away and released an update that didn't work properly on upgraded TiVos, hence my belief that they really should want to make sure updates work on upgraded systems.

I asked because I've been part of beta testing their software in the past and I don't recall them ever saying anything about not including upgraded systems, so I was surprised to see it now. My guess is that this Seagate issue is the first one that's cropped up that's directly related to an upgraded HD and now they're worried there may be more issues.


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## csh17

I agree as of the past two days or so the "freezing" has gotten progressively worse.

I rarely join these types of forums, I usually only "check in" to find comfort that I am not the only one experienceing these issues. And unfortunately as of late I have been very disappointed of the performance of the HD TiVo.

I have been a long lifetime subscriber to the TiVo service back to my first Series 2 quite a number of years ago and have been slowly transitioning to the HD TiVo. Up until this unit I have never had ANY issues with my TiVo service, WiFi and all. 

There was a brief incident when I was experiencing the frozen video on my HD TiVo a number of months ago, when I had first checked into this forum but lasted a couple of days at most, and it occured only rarely enough not to be much of a hinderance.

As of today, the picture freezing has become unbearable on "live" tv. At first, a couple of days ago it would only happen, say......when you changed the channel, you got the video moving and you were good to go. Yesterday, I was watching a live baseball game and it was doing it in the middle of the program, I was actually sitting in the other room eating dinner when I had noticed this, so there was obviously nothing done on the users' end to cause this. 

As of today, I actually got to sit in front of the TV to watch a good chunk for an hour or so, and I have found that the freezins was happening at every commercial break, especially when one of the "cheap local" commercials were on, the actual Tv program I was watching was fine. But it was extremely annonying that at every commercial break I had to trick play the video back into motion, not to mention "guess" when these commercials were over so that the video wouldn't freeze again.

Now like all of us here, I love my TiVo, and I am sure that the TiVo engineers will fix this. But it really is a bit disappointing when I get into those DVR debates with my friends that TiVo really isn't as bulletproof as I really believed it to be.

BTW--I have never modified any of my TiVo boxes, I always found them to be perfect the way they are.


----------



## outpost

I've only noticed the freeze a couple of times since getting my TiVo HD in April, both cured by restarting.

Last night I noticed this bizarre condition: of the several analog channels I tried, all are frozen, but none of the digital channels are frozen. I don't know how long it's been in that state, as I usually don't look at the analog channels.

Anything you guys would like me to experiment with as long as it's in this unusual state, before I reset?

Off air only, no cable.


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## cmeinck

Count me among those with the freeze. My wife was getting incredibly annoyed, that I finally checked back here at TC. Comforting to hear that TiVo is aware of the issue and that a fix is in the works. Too bad we won't hear feedback from the beta testers due to the NDA. Maybe the TiVo rep can weigh in occasionally.


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## swilcox

Caveat: I have no knowledge whatsoever about how TiVo works. And therefore this is probably a really stupid question. [But I do have a lot of experience with computer hardware and software problems. And it's taught me something: always look for the simplest answer first -- like, is the keyboard plugged in?].

Could this be as simple as something in software causing the TiVo to go into Pause and then being unresponsive to the Pause button?


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## morac

swilcox said:


> Could this be as simple as something in software causing the TiVo to go into Pause and then being unresponsive to the Pause button?


There's no chance of that since if it was paused, the playback bar would show up and pressing the ff/rew buttons would move frames forward/back instead of ff/rew.


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## skppr1

Having similar problems as others in this thread, especially on HBO HD channels (on Time Warner in McKinney Texas)--video freezes when changing channels but the audio keep going. 

If TivoJerry is monitoring this forum, would really like to hear from him about this ubiquitous problem.

Also, was playing Wordsmith and it repeatedly would end the game and act like the "watch live TV" button had been pushed. Whole game was cancelled and lost 3 times--similar action that leaving Tivo on "now showing" or at end of a recording causes...sort of like a sceen saving action. Really annoying!


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## HDRyder9

I'm in too. My Tivo HD would recover from the picture freeze for a day or two after a reboot but now it only lasts for a few minutes. It's totally unwatchable and unacceptable. When can we expect a fix?


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## wackymann

I'm so sick of hearing "Dad - my TV is messed up again!"


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## Deanq4

well add me to the list. I have a tivoHD that is doing the same thing (and seems to be getting worse as time goes by) It happens more on SD channels then on HD channels. It freezes after a few seconds then I get audio, but frozen picture. If I turn to an HD channel then it seems to work ok. On occasion it will freeze on an HD pic, but I can hit the instant replay and it is fine for a while.

I find that re-booting seems to work fine and have had no issues with playback (other than the FIOS pixilation issue) other than this. 

Thanks TivoJerry for actually reading these and doing something. If possible can you post what the changes are (when they are final) that caused the issue. Just curious what it was.


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## muerte33

I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that the 9.3a version of the software changed the way TIVO records the 30 minute buffer to the Hard drive. Some have theorized that they are recording these to static files on the drive. They are not randomly writing this to different parts of the drive.

Would be nice if they would come clean about this problem. It is a REAL aggravation. Wish there was a way to auto-reboot it once a night so it does not happen while I am trying to watch one of my shows. It is getting to where it happens every other day. I have NO external device, and I am running a straight stock drive (never cracked open) TIVO HD.

I am willing to be a beta tester at this point too.
What have I got to lose?


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## swilcox

morac said:


> There's no chance of that since if it was paused, the playback bar would show up and pressing the ff/rew buttons would move frames forward/back instead of ff/rew.


You're right.

My freezing has gotten MUCH worse over the past two days. I don't know if this is just a coincidence or what. I've had several freezes, sometimes 2-3 a day.

This is getting darned frustrating! I love my TiVo, would never look back, but...


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## davidwestcott

I hope this doesn't jinx me but - i have been problem free for the past month. It was a daily thing sometimes twice with the freezing and rebooting but something has definately changed and I have been trouble free (knock on wood!) I have fios with 2 hd tivos running in the house and live in the philly area. I still have occasional pixalation problems but not nearly as bad as before i started playing with the inline coax reducers...


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## hmm52

When did you start attenuating ( "coax reducing") the FiOS signals?


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## Chris8204

My issue has been pretty much consistent for the past couple of months. Every 2-3 days I have to reboot. However recently I was trying to watch TV when it was frozen (and I was recording something and didn't want to restart) so I started playing around with the TiVo. I'm not sure what I did but a combination of fast forwarding/changing tuners was some how able to get my TiVo unfrozen again. Of course it was frozen again a couple hours later, but I found it interesting that I was able to unfreeze it for the first time (although only temporarily) without a reboot.


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## telandra

I saw a new behavior today where a single channel was unfrozen and it swapped which channel was unfrozen:

Turn on TV, find it frozen. Start flipping channels.
1 - 2 second play, video freezes, 1 second more, audio freezes.
Channel up -- all stations freezing like above until PBS HD 4.
Channel down, then up again -- PBS HD 4 is frozen now.
Channel up a few, then down. PBS HD 4 frozen but now PBS HD 3 is unfrozen. ('Create' OTA channel, This Old House.)
Watching PBS HD 3 for a good 5 minutes now, still unfrozen.
Channel up. All other stations still frozen. PBS HD 3 remains unfrozen.
After a another 5 minutes return to PBS HD 4. This time it played 20 or so seconds of audio (frozen video the entire time) then froze.
Start flipping channels again with up/down. PBS HD 3 video is now frozen. Audio played for about 7 seconds before locking.
Channel down. Now PBS HD 4 is now frozen and the formerly playing HD 3 is frozen. All other channels remain frozen.
Monkey around with the Menus (all work fine.)
Go back to live TV. PBS HD 4 is unfrozen. Channel down PBS HD 3 is unfrozen. Channel up. PBS HD 4 is frozen again.
All 'now playing list' recordings are frozen.
Turn off the TV, turn it back on.
CBS is now unfrozen. Channeling up ... PBS 3 audio plays for several seconds (frozen picture) then freezes. PBS 4 unfrozen. Continue channel up back around to CBS -- frozen. Continue channel up, PBS 4 is now the channel to remain unfrozen (The History Project.)
And so on. Rebooting now .

Its also been only a few days since my last freeze and I can usually go 2 weeks +. The drive was pretty full yesterday, less full today. Restarted by unplugging the last time. OTA only, no Tivo desktop, wireless, sharing enabled with series 2.

Telandra


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## rcr2

I don't know why everyone blames 9.3. I had my first problem before 9.3 came out. As I've stated before, as has a few others, it's probably related to the buffer, and how full the disk is. typically, it doesn't happen until 4-6 months down the line after being in used, and on the shorter time scale when in heavy HD use. So there is a natural time lag until the problem shows itself.

I keep forgetting to sign up my non-upgraded box for the beta. I should go do that.


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## Langree

rcr2 said:


> I don't know why everyone blames 9.3. I had my first problem before 9.3 came out. As I've stated before, as has a few others, it's probably related to the buffer, and how full the disk is. typically, it doesn't happen until 4-6 months down the line after being in used, and on the shorter time scale when in heavy HD use. So there is a natural time lag until the problem shows itself.
> 
> I keep forgetting to sign up my non-upgraded box for the beta. I should go do that.


My Tivo+expander is full and has been, yet I don't see these lockups, I have had 2 or 3 total since December. So I don't think the buffer has as much to do with it as you might think.


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## slowbiscuit

rcr2 said:


> I don't know why everyone blames 9.3. I had my first problem before 9.3 came out. As I've stated before, as has a few others, it's probably related to the buffer, and how full the disk is. typically, it doesn't happen until 4-6 months down the line after being in used, and on the shorter time scale when in heavy HD use. So there is a natural time lag until the problem shows itself.
> 
> I keep forgetting to sign up my non-upgraded box for the beta. I should go do that.


It happened once to me on a 1-week old box with very little recorded. A reboot fixed it that time and I haven't seen it since, but that was less than two weeks ago.


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## MameMaster!

I currently have a 750 gig seagate upgrade from Weaknees, are those on your watch list too? I wonder if that's our common link ?

Weaknees description--- http://www.weaknees.com/seagate-db35-dvr-hard-drive.php

WeaKnees has been using high-end drives made specifically for DVRs. We are currently using Seagate's DB35 line - developed specifically for use in DVRs - in most of our TiVos and upgrade kits. This line of drives is currently used in many production DVRs.

Seagate's DB35 drives have never been available in retail stores, and can only be purchased through authorized resellers, such as WeaKnees.com.

Seagate DB35 drives have a few key differences from normal desktop drives that make them far superior to desktop drives for PVR usage:

* Thermal Control: On board sensors monitor temperature and adjust characteristics as necessary to keep the temperature optimal.
* Durability: These drives run at 7200 RPM - more than fast enough for every PVR (providing about three times the necessary peak throughput) but not fast enough to wear out sooner.
* Acoustic Management: DVR-specific drives are specially tuned to run as quietly as possible.
* A/V Streaming: DVR-specific drives have been optimized and tuned to provide consistent data to the PVR processor. Standard desktop drives can hang while retrying drive reads - DB35 drives know to move ahead and provide more data to keep video smooth.
* Error Recovery: Desktop drives retry on errors to make sure that your Excel spreadsheet is exactly right - it's imperative. But when watching video, if one block of data is bad, you may not even notice a dark spot on one frame for 1/30th of a second. So these drives are tuned to move past errors faster, putting the stream of data as top priority. Where desktop drives often cause stutters, these drives run smooth.


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## mike3775

I've been freeze free since my post where I had 3 in a short period of time, but there have been times where it appeared it was going to freeze up though, but somehow pushed through it.

By that, I mean the picture would freeze momentarily, but the sound would contimue, and then suddenly the picture unfreezes.


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## Langree

mike3775 said:


> I've been freeze free since my post where I had 3 in a short period of time, but there have been times where it appeared it was going to freeze up though, but somehow pushed through it.
> 
> By that, I mean the picture would freeze momentarily, but the sound would contimue, and then suddenly the picture unfreezes.


That could just be signal related, small hiccup in the transmission data.


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## GadgetGav

Add me to the seemingly large list...

Got a second TivoHD through the woot offer a while back and have it hooked up to a Visio LCD TV. When changing channels on this set up, we would see a blue screen for a second or two. I thought it was just something to do with the way the TV handled HDMI.
Then it started locking up with the video freeze issue... Again I put it down to that set up as changing channels seemed to fix it.
Now the first TivoHD is freezing too. This one is hooked up to a Pioneer plasma and has been working without problems since day 1.
For me, it seems to affect SD channels. I'm currently watching an HD channel without problem, but I can't watch an SD channel.
It also affects an recording in progress, but when you hit FFWD twice, the recording seems to be there.
Both TivoHDs are running 9.3a... so that could be the problem, but radio silence from TivoStephen about it since 5/27 is not encouraging...


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## willirl

willirl said:


> Well, I just talked to TIVO tech support and we went through a couple of reboots with and without the cable card inserted. It did the freeze thing even without the cable card in (on the lower non-digital channels which don't require the card to work).
> 
> So she is sending me a new unit. I will post again when I get the new unit.


Got the replacement unit around the first of June (37 days or so ago) and have not had the problem again. I don't think this is a software problem. I believe is either a firmware or hardware problem. Otherwise it would not have been fixed by simply replacing the Tivo.

(Just for the record. This problem was where the video freezes but the audio continues to play. Did not matter if it was playing back SD or HD - same thing.)


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## jmc321

I too experienced this picture freezing issue on a brand new Tivo HD within about 3 weeks of buying it. (I bought it about 6 weeks ago) It seems to have been as described--picture freezes, audio might continue for a second or two, but trick-play will unfreeze it, and menus still work. Trick-play unfreeze is short lived, as it will freeze-up again momentarily. A reboot (hard or soft, I tried both) would fix it for a while, but it would come back, usually within one day. Also seemed to happen more often on some channels than others, but occurred on SD and HD signals.

Anyway, this didn't happen at all for about 3 weeks after buying the unit, and then it happened once or twice, and soon enough it seemed to be happening multiple times a day. It became essentially unwatchable. But then I realized something--shortly after setting up the tivo I had set "video output format" to "Fixed 720p" because, though I had initially had output set to "Native", coming from a series 2 on an old TV I had been annoyed by the momentary flicker that my TV picture made if I changed channels or hit the tivo button that would cause the output resolution sent to the TV to change. Obviously "Fixed 720p" eliminated this flicker. 

But then, after a few weeks, I thought I would switch it to "Native" to see if the picture quality was better on certain channels. I ended up leaving it there, getting used to the flicker. But I think shortly after that was when the freezing problem started. I didn't make the connection at first, but then I realized it might be related, and I decided to try going back to "Fixed 720p" and I haven't had it freeze since then.

So, just from my experience: Set on "Fixed 720p" for 3 weeks, no freezing at all. Switched to "Native" for a couple weeks, freezing started, and got so bad it was freezing multiple times a day and starting to freeze again within a day after restart. Then switched back to "Fixed 720p" and since then (knock on wood) no freezes.

Obviously this isn't a permanent solution (I would think you would want to use "native" to get the best possible picture out of your TV), but until Tivo gets this new software out, maybe this might work for other people too?


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## outpost

Has anyone tried the diagnostic tests on this Tivo page:

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/howto/DVR_Expander_Troubleshooting.html

--under "test the integrity," or some such, about 1/3 down the page. Apparently for internal as well as external drive.


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## greg_burns

outpost said:


> Has anyone tried the diagnostic tests on this Tivo page:
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/howto/DVR_Expander_Troubleshooting.html
> 
> --under "test the integrity," or some such, about 1/3 down the page. Apparently for internal as well as external drive.


That is referred to as a "KickStart".

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2


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## Gavroche

jmc321 said:


> Obviously this isn't a permanent solution (I would think you would want to use "native" to get the best possible picture out of your TV), but until Tivo gets this new software out, maybe this might work for other people too?


tried it.

No luck.

The ONLY thing that has worked for me is simply preventing the S3 from EVER tuning an HD channel.


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## HDRyder9

My freeze problem is starting to feel like some sort of "disk full" issue. My freeze was coming back after only an hour or so after a reboot. So, I turned off Suggestions and deleted EVERYTHING I haven't already watched. My disk should be pretty empty and the freeze has gone away for the last few days. YMMV I wish I knew how to defrag a Tivo HD.


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## dallastx

I realize that this will probably jinx me, but I haven't experienced a freeze for two days now. 
I've got a TiVoHD with 9.3a and a 500GB Seagate DB35 drive. 
I've had freezes several times a day since the end of June. It would mainly occur after changing channels. Channel Up/Down/Review would square it away but it would it would usually take several times to do it. It seemed that changing to an analog channel (Verizon will be changing 1-49 in the Dallas area to digital in August.) would work as well although if I changed back to the original channel that froze, it would probably freeze again. If I wait a minute or two, I could switch to the original channel and it would be okay.


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## scola77

dallastx said:


> I realize that this will probably jinx me, but I haven't experienced a freeze for two days now.
> I've got a TiVoHD with 9.3a and a 500GB Seagate DB35 drive.
> I've had freezes several times a day since the end of June. It would mainly occur after changing channels. Channel Up/Down/Review would square it away but it would it would usually take several times to do it. It seemed that changing to an analog channel (Verizon will be changing 1-49 in the Dallas area to digital in August.) would work as well although if I changed back to the original channel that froze, it would probably freeze again. If I wait a minute or two, I could switch to the original channel and it would be okay.


I am kind of in the same boat. My freezes still happen, but are less frequent. They happen about once per week now. I know all I have to do is reboot and the problem will go away for a while, but the issue for me is WHEN it happens. They seem to happen during the day (or overnight) when I am not at home and my wife (technically challenged) does not know what to do. She is getting increasingly frustrated even though I keep telling her a fix is on the way (crossing my fingers this is true). I have invested alot of money in my 2 tivo hd's + cable card installs so I am hoping this little nuisance will go away soon.

Regardless of the freeze ups, I love my TiVo and would NOT under any circumstances switch to the Cox DVR (it is horrible). The only possible thing I would consider if the problem cannot be resolved is switching back to DirecTV's HR21.

To sum up - Love my TiVo, but wife is mad and something has to give. I hope TiVo is close to solving this issue before I am forced to make a change.


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## tiassa

I see it when I frequently switch between channels (when I was flipping back and forth between the Red Sox and Celtics earlier this month for example) on the same tuner, when I set up the 2 channels to be on the different tuners and use the "live TV" button to switch it doesn't happen as often. However when I was watching the Sox and the C's while recording something on the other tuner it became problematic. So I think it is some kind of buffer thing between the cable card or the tuner and the disk.


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## dallastx

Yesterday morning I wrote that I hadn't had a freeze in two days. I was afraid that statement would jinx me.

Well, last night about 7 I had my worst freezing. I couldn't find a channel or recorded program that wouldn't freeze immediately. Neither Chan Up/Down or Review would clear it. I finally did a warm boot (from the menu as opposed to unplugging) and everything was fine.


----------



## lessd

I have upgraded more TiVos than most people on this form and never had the freeze problem or my friends would call me, one friend just called. I took the TiVo back to my home and re-did the guided setup, then let the TiVo run, looked at it two hours later and the TiVo was frozen with a still picture on the screen, the TiVo would not react to the remote, I had to do a hard boot. Changed out the drive and the same thing happened, put in the original 160Gb drive and the same thing happened so the problem with this TiVo-HD is something in the MB not the hard drive. I have a warranty replacement coming.
The TiVo was a 652 running on Comcast cable but no cable cards, I was recording one HD channel and watching another when the freeze happened. (I had done a channel scan to find the network HD clear channels).

I posted this just as another data point in this ongoing TiVo-HD freeze problem.


----------



## Ziggy86

lessd said:


> I have upgraded more TiVos than most people on this form and never had the freeze problem or my friends would call me, one friend just called. I took the TiVo back to my home and re-did the guided setup, then let the TiVo run, looked at it two hours later and the TiVo was frozen with a still picture on the screen, the TiVo would not react to the remote, I had to do a hard boot. Changed out the drive and the same thing happened, put in the original 160Gb drive and the same thing happened so the problem with this TiVo-HD is something in the MB not the hard drive. I have a warranty replacement coming.
> The TiVo was a 652 running on Comcast cable but no cable cards, I was recording one HD channel and watching another when the freeze happened. (I had done a channel scan to find the network HD clear channels).
> 
> I posted this just as another data point in this ongoing TiVo-HD freeze problem.


I hope you reported it directly to Tivo.

The more people who do the better chance we have of a fix happening.


----------



## jeffinaz

lessd said:


> I have upgraded more TiVos than most people on this form and never had the freeze problem or my friends would call me, one friend just called. I took the TiVo back to my home and re-did the guided setup, then let the TiVo run, looked at it two hours later and the TiVo was frozen with a still picture on the screen, the TiVo would not react to the remote, I had to do a hard boot. Changed out the drive and the same thing happened, put in the original 160Gb drive and the same thing happened so the problem with this TiVo-HD is something in the MB not the hard drive. I have a warranty replacement coming.
> The TiVo was a 652 running on Comcast cable but no cable cards, I was recording one HD channel and watching another when the freeze happened. (I had done a channel scan to find the network HD clear channels).
> 
> I posted this just as another data point in this ongoing TiVo-HD freeze problem.


I doubt it is the MB since the problem comes and goes with varied degrees of severity.


----------



## lessd

Ziggy86 said:


> I hope you reported it directly to Tivo.
> 
> The more people who do the better chance we have of a fix happening.


TiVo reads this form so i did not call TiVo about this as I know more than most of the CSR that answer the phone and TiVo gets cranky if the hard drive is changed out. The CSR can tell this when you call and most of the time will not talk to you if you have another drive in your not working TiVo.

TiVo knows about this problem and has an ongoing beta to try to fix this problem. (I am not in the beta myself) so that's another reason i don't think my phone time with TiVo would help with this problem.


----------



## cwbaker

Has anyone got the email invite to get the early access software yet?


----------



## TiVoJerry

cwbaker said:


> Has anyone got the email invite to get the early access software yet?


Yes they have. I've personally sent a few myself and my coworker has sent more. As part of the NDA, anyone who has asked to join would not be able to post a reply to your question.

If, for some reason, someone has not received an email after waiting 2 business days (M-F) since contacting our call center, please PM me directly rather than reply in this thread.

Thank you.


----------



## TiVoJerry

Ziggy86 said:


> I hope you reported it directly to Tivo.
> 
> The more people who do the better chance we have of a fix happening.


For new issues that we're not necessarily aware of, this would be a wise recommendation. However, it does not apply in this situation because we are keenly aware that this is happening to our customers and the investigation is already a high priority that we are diligently working on.

I'd personally prefer you not add to our call volume so as not to inconvenience other customers by adding to hold times, but you are, of course, always welcome to call in if you wish to have yourself counted or to request being added to the early access program.


----------



## cxpistol

very frustrating........constant reboots or lockups for over a month..........9.3a has to go, the wife wants results, and we are damn lucky it's the off-season for real tv and football, but you are running out of time!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## moonscape

i've scanned several threads and not sure if my issue fits a profile or not. i didn't get a picture freeze but a black screen. remote worked. was watching a recorded show when it happened. tried another show - still black. sound okay. it's a (1-month old) series 3, not modified. soft reboot fixed it.

is this something others are seeing as well?


----------



## TechDreamer

The Tivo Beta program does not work. This whole NDA thing is stupid. Tivo obviously does not have the resources to fix these software problems. Why not involve the community in a more open and LARGER way? Tivo handles these problems the same way over and over again. Big FAIL.


----------



## Langree

TechDreamer said:


> The Tivo Beta program does not work. This whole NDA thing is stupid. Tivo obviously does not have the resources to fix these software problems. Why not involve the community in a more open and LARGER way? Tivo handles these problems the same way over and over again. Big FAIL.


----------



## Ziggy86

TiVoJerry said:


> For new issues that we're not necessarily aware of, this would be a wise recommendation. However, it does not apply in this situation because we are keenly aware that this is happening to our customers and the investigation is already a high priority that we are diligently working on.
> 
> I'd personally prefer you not add to our call volume so as not to inconvenience other customers by adding to hold times, but you are, of course, always welcome to call in if you wish to have yourself counted or to request being added to the early access program.


Thanks, I will not call and will not suggest that others call either. *But are the CSR just telling us information that is not correct when they say a fix is about to be released in the next two weeks when I see posts here that go back months with the same "two weeks" and a fix will be available?*


----------



## dallastx

I knew that I shouldn't have written that I hadn't had a freeze in two days. 
Last night a 6pm exactly, my TiVo HD froze, but for the first time, it wouldn't respond to the remote. I had to do a cold boot (unplug it). It came up running like a top, but this is really getting annoying.


----------



## rrhardy

Hi, guess I've joined the club - switching over from DirecTV-TiVo and set up a new TiVo HD (652... serial) - guided setup went fine and all seemed well at 11pm. This AM found the TiVo with a very distinctive buzzing sound coming from the left interior - the TV was switched off so this was not from the TV audio. Turned the TV on and there was a frozen display - not responsive at all, had to pull the plug to do a reboot. Happened again within 1 hour. Happened again about 2 hours after that. I called TiVo support and they said this is a known issue and "we're working on a fix" - I specifically asked whether the "buzz" was part of the known problem and he said "yes, some of the units buzz when they freeze" - any recommendations on what to do? I'm concerned that this is really a hardware issue, not the software issue so many others are having.


----------



## RoyK

I'd demand a case number so that the time and date are logged at TiVo - then if it does turn out to be a hardware issue you have documentation as to when you reported the problem and what you were told.

Sorry you're having a problem. If they ever get the TiVoHD hardware and software out of alpha test I might consider buying one.....


----------



## Wetsprocket625

MY TivoHD is 6 months old, has not been modified and has 1 multistream cable card. I experienced freezing(for the first time) on recorded shows a few days ago. It would play a minute or so and then freeze. It would let me go back but the few shows I tried would always freeze. Soft reboot has so far eliminated the issue, hopefully it will stay that way for a while.


----------



## tootal2

TechDreamer said:


> The Tivo Beta program does not work. This whole NDA thing is stupid. Tivo obviously does not have the resources to fix these software problems. Why not involve the community in a more open and LARGER way? Tivo handles these problems the same way over and over again. Big FAIL.


I have not seen any freezing.


----------



## TiVoJerry

cxpistol said:


> very frustrating........constant reboots or lockups for over a month..........9.3a has to go, the wife wants results, and we are damn lucky it's the off-season for real tv and football, but you are running out of time!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you are saying that the DVR reboots on its own, or becomes totally unresponsive to the remote, you are NOT experiencing what this thread is about. This thread is discussing the display of a single frame of video (unmoving, frozen image) BUT all other menus and behaviors are normal. In this case, only playback is affected. A reboot resolves the issue.

Again, if your unit is completely locked up or rebooting on its own, you are having a different problem and need to stop associating it with this thread. It only adds to the confusion of others who don't have time to dive through every post in this thread.


----------



## wyld

i just ordered another tivo hd for my parents from executive relations and i brought up the issue of freezing to the rep. he was aware of this issue and gave me four possible reasons for its occurrence which i wanted to pass along to the forum:

1) make sure the tivo is plugged directly into a wall socket. supposedly surge protectors can cause a fluctuation in power to the unit, which will cause the tivo to slightly reset, causing a freeze.

2) the current software has some issues, which are being addressed by the staff and should be fixed with the next firmware release.

3) using a tivo network adapter might contribute to the freezing (i don't have one, but have seen the freeze)

4) if using cable card(s), make sure you run the guided setup before inserting and installing the cable card(s)

i'm not sure if this will help any of you, but i thought i'd just pass the info along.


----------



## Mars Rocket

moonscape said:


> i've scanned several threads and not sure if my issue fits a profile or not. i didn't get a picture freeze but a black screen. remote worked. was watching a recorded show when it happened. tried another show - still black. sound okay. it's a (1-month old) series 3, not modified. soft reboot fixed it.
> 
> is this something others are seeing as well?


Yes, that's a known issue and was discussed at length in a different thread. I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: see if this thread covers what you're talking about.


----------



## TiVoJerry

wyld said:


> i just ordered another tivo hd for my parents from executive relations and i brought up the issue of freezing to the rep. he was aware of this issue and gave me four possible reasons for its occurrence which i wanted to pass along to the forum:
> 
> 1) make sure the tivo is plugged directly into a wall socket. supposedly surge protectors can cause a fluctuation in power to the unit, which will cause the tivo to slightly reset, causing a freeze.
> 
> 2) the current software has some issues, which are being addressed by the staff and should be fixed with the next firmware release.
> 
> 3) using a tivo network adapter might contribute to the freezing (i don't have one, but have seen the freeze)
> 
> 4) if using cable card(s), make sure you run the guided setup before inserting and installing the cable card(s)
> 
> i'm not sure if this will help any of you, but i thought i'd just pass the info along.


Would you mind sending me a PM with your case information? I'd like to find out which person you spoke with.

#1 is speculation on the agent's part and is not our official stance. I have no idea where this recommendation came from.

#2, we are investigating the issue but *the agent is NOT authorized to provide an ETA* for resolution, as we have not made any statement to that effect. Stating that it should be fixed in the next upgrade is pure speculation on the agent's part. We try to train them to use language to avoid speculation but it still happens. It's also possible the agent was relying heavily on the qualifier in that statement ("should") rather than use more direct language.

#3, more speculation. We have not provided any guidance about the adapter in regards to the video freeze issue

#4, also unrelated.


----------



## Langree

I keep mine on a UPS along with my router and DSL modem. The place I live gets unexplained power drops, I hear my UPS kick on for a split second almost daily but my equipment doesn't miss a tick. It used to, drove me nuts.


----------



## bdooner

The freeze has been happening more to me -- 3 time in the past week.
Maybe we need to start posting to potential buyers on CNET and PCWORLD and PCMAG.
if TiVo doesn't get with it and fix this problem.

TIVO ARE YOU LISTENING?


----------



## tootal2

bdooner said:


> The freeze has been happening more to me -- 3 time in the past week.
> Maybe we need to start posting to potential buyers on CNET and PCWORLD and PCMAG.
> if TiVo doesn't get with it and fix this problem.
> 
> TIVO ARE YOU LISTENING?


I think if you unplug for 30 sec and plug it back in. Instead of rebooting it. the freeze problem will go way for 2 weeks.


----------



## Deanq4

tootal2 said:


> I think if you unplug it instead of rebooting it. the freeze problem will go way for 2 weeks.


I think if you unplug it, it will go away all together.... at least till you plug it back in 

Hey, at least tivo is trying to do something, it seems that they are a lot more involved than a lot of other companies.


----------



## SamD

TiVoJerry said:


> This thread is discussing the display of a single frame of video (unmoving, frozen image) BUT all other menus and behaviors are normal. In this case, only playback is affected. A reboot resolves the issue.


Exactly this happens to my one week old TiVo HD.
Two freezes in three days. No evident reason, one time during playing recorded show, second time on live TV viewing. Reboot restores normal operation.


----------



## Mars Rocket

bdooner said:


> The freeze has been happening more to me -- 3 time in the past week.
> Maybe we need to start posting to potential buyers on CNET and PCWORLD and PCMAG.
> if TiVo doesn't get with it and fix this problem.
> 
> TIVO ARE YOU LISTENING?


Didn't somebody in this thread already confirm that they're working on a fix right now and that it will be out "soon"? Hasn't TiVoJerry all but confirmed this?

How much more "LISTENING" do you want?


----------



## TechDreamer

Oh I'm sure Tivo has been "listening". The problem is the doing. I think we are on month 7 or 8 now? This on a totally closed hardware and software system. I'm not saying this stuff is easy, but that apparently Tivo thinks it's easy or they would put more resources on R & D.


----------



## moonscape

Mars Rocket said:


> Yes, that's a known issue and was discussed at length in a different thread. I'll see if I can find it.
> 
> Edit: see if this thread covers what you're talking about.


thanks much - that would be it.


----------



## SamD

TiVoJerry said:


> Quick thing to get some feedback on: next time you experience a freeze, try disconnecting just the RF cable for 30 seconds rather than restart. Does the issue resolve? Does it come back shortly thereafter (faster than a restart)?


Reporting: today at 9 pm I got third freeze in three days.
Disconnected RF for about 3-4 min, connected back. Playback restored with no problems. Installed AB switch, sitting in stakeout for next freeze .


----------



## joea789

After posting my Novella on what I was doing during the freeze a bunch of pages back, I thought it might help to provide an update.

I do understand a software update is coming (maybe came?) but I'm sure that I didn't have the update at least a week ago, and my freezes haven't come back after that one episode. (My original Tivo HD had a power supply issue, and the machine I got back from them is the one I'm speaking of)

Briefly, at the end of my story, I said I wasn't going to reboot the box, and I didn't. I'm think the power has gone out once though.

Granted I haven't had much time to watch much TV, but I have watched quite a lot of baseball live, and haven't seen it come back. Nor have I seen a freeze playing a recorded show.

So, I do hope the next software rev help everyone. To my eye, it looked to be an issue involving one of the tuners.


----------



## filberttt

> Disconnected RF for about 3-4 min, connected back. Playback restored with no problems

If this is right, congratulations on successful investigation. Here's hoping for a rapid final fix!


----------



## rrhardy

TiVoJerry said:


> If you are saying that the DVR reboots on its own, or becomes totally unresponsive to the remote, you are NOT experiencing what this thread is about. This thread is discussing the display of a single frame of video (unmoving, frozen image) BUT all other menus and behaviors are normal. In this case, only playback is affected. A reboot resolves the issue.
> 
> Again, if your unit is completely locked up or rebooting on its own, you are having a different problem and need to stop associating it with this thread. It only adds to the confusion of others who don't have time to dive through every post in this thread.


Update - my TiVo HD (new unit, activated on 7/10/08) continued to experience freezes of the whole interface, unresponsive to the remote, and I reported this to TiVo support and was more adamant that it did NOT appear to be the "well known software problem" - the support tech agreed and is shipping a replacement. Later this same day (Saturday) the TiVo froze again and since then has not completed a successful boot. Sorry that I posted this to the wrong thread - did not know what the right thread was, particularly as the 1st TiVo support person I spoke to identified my problem as the well known one that they were working on - I even told him about the buzz and that it was unresponsive to the remote and he still said, "yes sometimes that happens" - so I was misled and sorry if I've misled others in the process. 
I hope my replacement TiVo works more reliably.


----------



## lessd

rrhardy said:


> Update - my TiVo HD (new unit, activated on 7/10/08) continued to experience freezes of the whole interface, unresponsive to the remote, and I reported this to TiVo support and was more adamant that it did NOT appear to be the "well known software problem" - the support tech agreed and is shipping a replacement. Later this same day (Saturday) the TiVo froze again and since then has not completed a successful boot. Sorry that I posted this to the wrong thread - did not know what the right thread was, particularly as the 1st TiVo support person I spoke to identified my problem as the well known one that they were working on - I even told him about the buzz and that it was unresponsive to the remote and he still said, "yes sometimes that happens" - so I was misled and sorry if I've misled others in the process.
> I hope my replacement TiVo works more reliably.


To me there are three main problems with the TiVo-HD (652)

1) The screen goes grey with no background color and you can't watch any TV but the remote works and by doing a soft re-boot the problem is fixed, (at least temporary) there is another thread that covers this problem.

2) Picture freezes but the remote works, as soft re-boot gives temporary relief or disconnecting the Rf may also give temporary relief from this problem. This Thread covers this problem

3) Picture freezes and the TiVo locks up and will not respond to the remote or anything short of a hard reboot, I don't know if any thread has been set up to cover this problem.

For many people it may be hard to figure out which thread to respond to when they do have a problem as there are other problems in addition to the 3 I just listed. I think we can cut people some slack if they post the incorrect problem to the incorrect thread as TiVo is threatening to fix problem #2 soon and may address 1 and 3 also..we will just have to wait and see what "soon" means.


----------



## orimk

Yeah, after a few days of running in HD mode, I find it frozen (or it freezes as I'm watching), and switching channels or playing recorded content of any quality does the same.

Now the interesting bit is that I just got an HD-capable TV last week; and this only happened after I switched my Tivo to play on a screen like that (16:9, etc, etc). It previously recorded a show or two in HD and downmixed it to just SD, and the Tivo never froze before?!

The whole freezing issue reminds me of trying to stream Windows media file over an unreliable or just slow network connection. If your WM player isn't fed the information fast enough, it just freezes like that. You can use the scroll bar to get to a point in the video, and it just shows the one frame there, then freezes again. 
Tivo does very much the same thing. I can also fast forward through frozen pre-recorded content, but TiVo won't play it.

Tivo, seriously, how about a speculation by one or all of your engineers publicly on the forum as to what's going on? I would feel so much better knowing even that you hit 15 roadblocks rather than just vague "we're working on it" promises.


----------



## halcion1

Regarding video freezes - Here is what I have noticed that is a little bit of a twist to your issues...
My Tivo has the video freeze problem just like everyone here. Rather than rebooting f/the settings screen, I decided to call Cox Cable (I am on a first name basis with them now, thx Tivo) - Here's what I learned that you all may want to try as I am curious and have a theory as to why this happens, but no cure yet...First, if I call Cox & tell them to "un-pair, & re-pair" my signal, the Tivo recovers much faster than a soft reboot (which doesn't always fix the problem) Calling Cox almost always clears my signal up in seconds...

Next, I have noticed the following & would like to know if I'm close, so I'm open to ideas here - The "cable lineup change" is displayed on occasion and I have seen more than once that the shows in the guide are also displayed incorrectly. Once the reboot or pairing process is complete, the Tivo is back to its old self for a while at least. 

Another thing I notice is that Cox throws out an "Emergency Test Message" that I see from time to time...usually right before my Tivo freaks out w/video frezzes...sometimes only HD affected, sometimes not.

I may be off the mark, but I have read A LOT of posts here, and I'm thinking that this problem is possibly linked to the way the units update the guide/cable channel lineups from the Cable company. I would love to hear if somebody gets the pairing process to work on a different provider like Comcast...

I'm not saying this is the cause for sure, nor am I saying that this is not a bigtime bug in the Tivo software, but maybe we're all looking in the wrong place for an answer?? - Seems to me it is something in the way the cable cards get the info from the provider that screws up Tivo's ability to process the signals correctly...

Side note - I do get a blatent "Cable Card Error" 161-38 (just got one while typing this LOL) but I do not always get it.

I will post my versions, etc so you guys can compare, but need to look it all up...mine is "out-of-box" still. (Multistream card)


----------



## lessd

halcion1 said:


> Regarding video freezes - Here is what I have noticed that is a little bit of a twist to your issues...
> My Tivo has the video freeze problem just like everyone here. Rather than rebooting f/the settings screen, I decided to call Cox Cable (I am on a first name basis with them now, thx Tivo) - Here's what I learned that you all may want to try as I am curious and have a theory as to why this happens, but no cure yet...First, if I call Cox & tell them to "un-pair, & re-pair" my signal, the Tivo recovers much faster than a soft reboot (which doesn't always fix the problem) Calling Cox almost always clears my signal up in seconds...
> 
> Next, I have noticed the following & would like to know if I'm close, so I'm open to ideas here - The "cable lineup change" is displayed on occasion and I have seen more than once that the shows in the guide are also displayed incorrectly. Once the reboot or pairing process is complete, the Tivo is back to its old self for a while at least.
> 
> Another thing I notice is that Cox throws out an "Emergency Test Message" that I see from time to time...usually right before my Tivo freaks out w/video frezzes...sometimes only HD affected, sometimes not.
> 
> I may be off the mark, but I have read A LOT of posts here, and I'm thinking that this problem is possibly linked to the way the units update the guide/cable channel lineups from the Cable company. I would love to hear if somebody gets the pairing process to work on a different provider like Comcast...
> 
> I'm not saying this is the cause for sure, nor am I saying that this is not a bigtime bug in the Tivo software, but maybe we're all looking in the wrong place for an answer?? - Seems to me it is something in the way the cable cards get the info from the provider that screws up Tivo's ability to process the signals correctly...
> 
> Side note - I do get a blatent "Cable Card Error" 161-38 (just got one while typing this LOL) but I do not always get it.
> 
> I will post my versions, etc so you guys can compare, but need to look it all up...mine is "out-of-box" still. (Multistream card)


But some people have had this problem without cable cards, but it could be a corrupted signal that puts the TiVo in this mode and your cable card reset may also reset the TiVo signal processor.


----------



## Beachbum55

Same issue. Freezes, menus are slow, re-boots.

Just spoke to TIVO (after being on hold for 15 minutes). They told me that this is a know issue and it will likely be a week or two before it's fixed. Once they have the fix in place, if you're box can't connect for the update, you'll need to exchange the box.

Sucks big time!! My old tried and true Pioneer box is still working like champ.


----------



## wdpower

I just found a tread that an S3 got 9.4, maybe they have come up with something? He said there were a few new features too.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=399394

Bill


----------



## Ziggy86

Beachbum55 said:


> if you're box can't connect for the update, you'll need to exchange the box.QUOTE]
> 
> What does this mean?


----------



## Beachbum55

Ziggy 86,

The support rep mentioned that IF my TIVO box was locked-up (i.e. to the point that I couldn't force an update), I would need to swap it out. 

I was able to get to the update screen last night and force an update, so I think it'll be fine once the fix is in place.

As of 6:00 am PDT, my Series 3 was going through yet another re-boot cycle and then a grey screen. I decided to just uplug it for the day.


----------



## Ziggy86

Are people having issues with lock up or freezing when they are viewing or recording HD programing


----------



## Abouna

Well add me to the line of complainers! Let me qualify that by saying I'm an owner of 2 S2s for 5 years. Our family are dedicated Tivo fans. 

That said, I ordered 2 HD Tivos last week and took delivery on Thursday. I wasn't slated to get my M cards until Monday. Before the cards came I had zero issues, both units worked just fine. Yesterday the cable guy showed up, installed the cards, paired them and left. About an hour later )after they were activated) one was working just fine the other was not. After spending a couple hours between Mediacom and Tivo, the Tivo techs (who I'm afraid to say weren't very friendly or knowledgeable) decided it was the cable cards fault. I called out another Mediacom guy who showed up this morning, he checked the card, sent in the numbers again (which I double checked he got right), still no dice, I can get 5-6 HD channels but no Extended Basic 2-70+. Tivo again, talked with the cable guy present, explained the situation several times, with the Tivo person asking multiple times the same questions (did you restart, have you done guided set-up, did you do it right, is the card paired, etc). The cable guy was practically on the floor because he kept answering yes to all this but they kept asking. In the end Tivo is still clinging to it being the fault of the card, the cable guy was skeptical (as am I since I was getting some channels) but conceded that we could try a new card. So here I am waiting another week to find out where the problem lies. 

Now the Tivo HD that was working is freezing 2-3 times per DAY, frozen image but with sound. What is going on? We've had to set our channel line-up 3-4 times per day because the Tivo keeps adding back all the channels we don't want. 

As I said, we're staunch Tivo fans but the service is not doing well by us so far with the new units and the CS reps aren't very supportive.


----------



## Ziggy86

Sorry to hear about your troubles Abouna. I too have not been happy with the customer service people at Tivo. I can't believe how many people are having issues with the Picture freezing.

Has this freezing issue only poped up since the 9.3 update?


----------



## Abouna

Ziggy86 said:


> Sorry to hear about your troubles Abouna. I too have not been happy with the customer service people at Tivo. I can't believe how many people are having issues with the Picture freezing.
> 
> Has this freezing issue only poped up since the 9.3 update?


EDIT: Still on 9.3 as of Wed. morning.

I'm not at home so I'm not sure what version I'm runnning. I assume that since these just shipped last week it must on 9.3. Not sure if 9.4 is on there yet or not.

I hate to say it but the cable guy was really pushing (obviously he's biased) for me to try the Mediacom DVR. I don't want any part of it but these problems are major and not to be overlooked.


----------



## nemein

Abouna said:


> I can get 5-6 HD channels but no Extended Basic 2-70+.


This sounds like the same problem I was having when I first got my TivoHD a couple of weeks ago. I had Cox switch me from Mcards to Scards, the problem went away and all of the expected SD and most of the HD channels showed up (there's the whole SDV thing that prevented all of the HD channels from showing up).


----------



## Abouna

nemein said:


> This sounds like the same problem I was having when I first got my TivoHD a couple of weeks ago. I had Cox switch me from Mcards to Scards, the problem went away and all of the expected SD and most of the HD channels showed up (there's the whole SDV thing that prevented all of the HD channels from showing up).


Thats what Tivo wanted me to do. I don't think I should have to do that though, this is one of the reasons I went with the HD instead of the S3. Plus, I'd then have to get 4 cards, upping my monthly cost for the cards to $8.


----------



## nemein

I know it sucks but if it's what works though...


----------



## Tom White

Ziggy86 said:


> Has this freezing issue only poped up since the 9.3 update?


I can't say for certain, but it appears that way.

Don't bother asking Tivo reps monitoring these threads why a rollback can't be done, you won't get an answer. Guess how I know that.

My wondering is this. It seems that members of this board who have had a chance to view these threads and see the problems, will go ahead and buy one of these units. I can't figure out why anyone would buy one until the problems are resolved.


----------



## RoyK

Tom White said:


> I can't say for certain, but it appears that way.
> 
> Don't bother asking Tivo reps monitoring these threads why a rollback can't be done, you won't get an answer. Guess how I know that.
> 
> My wondering is this. It seems that members of this board who have had a chance to view these threads and see the problems, will go ahead and buy one of these units. I can't figure out why anyone would buy one until the problems are resolved.


That makes two of us.


----------



## Langree

Tom White said:


> I can't say for certain, but it appears that way.
> 
> Don't bother asking Tivo reps monitoring these threads why a rollback can't be done, you won't get an answer. Guess how I know that.
> 
> My wondering is this. It seems that members of this board who have had a chance to view these threads and see the problems, will go ahead and buy one of these units. I can't figure out why anyone would buy one until the problems are resolved.


Some people have held off, if what a few have posted here is true.

I personally would still go out and buy another one today.

I've seen the lockups discussed here about 4 times in 6 months, nothing near what others claim to be seeing.


----------



## outpost

I had a freeze this morning, and you could see from the buffer that it occurred at exactly the moment I turned the tv on. Coincidence?

Connected to Samsung LN37A550P3F via HDMI. Off air only -- no cable.

I also noticed that during the freeze, the "Tivo video tours" played, and the Music Choice music videos also played.

Hope that adds a bit of useful info.


----------



## dallastx

I've been doing preemptive reboots for the last five days. This warm reboot each day seems to have stopped the freezing.

I've got a TiVo HD with 9.3a. I started getting freezes the last week in June. These freezes occurred about once a day, usually after just changing channels. They were easily cleared by changing channels or hitting the review button.

Last Wednesday, the 9th, I had a freeze and any channel that I changed to froze instantly. A warm reboot cleared the problem. The next day I had another freeze that I couldn't clear by changing channels. Since them, I've done a warm reboot once a day, at my convenience, and seem to be running okay.

I never saw a screen froze when I turned on the TV. Most often, if not every time, the picture freeze is immediately after changing channels.


----------



## Beachbum55

I got home last night and plugged my Series 3 back in and all was well in the world again. No freezing, quick response on the menus, all functions seem to be working.

My Series 3 was dead in the water (not useable at all) on Monday and Tivo support indicated that it would be a week or more before a fix was in place, so I'm a happy camper!

I'm still on 9.3 as of last night (don't have the exact version on hand), so I'm wondering if they pushed out a different version or fix on Monday night.


----------



## seedysailor

I turned on my TV and I now have a new software download. Its 9.4L6-01-652. I sure hope this works, but no more than the rest of you I am sure.


----------



## Ziggy86

seedysailor said:


> I turned on my TV and I now have a new software download. Its 9.4L6-01-652. I sure hope this works, but no more than the rest of you I am sure.


Let us know if you have any more freezing issues.


----------



## seedysailor

I certainly will. It was not advertised as a "freeze" fix, so I hope it is?


----------



## andyw715

I really hope this post doesn't jinx me.

Two weeks after posting the first post in this thread (back in Nov 07) my Tivo HD stopped its freezing up. And hasn't since  

The only difference was changing the settings on my season passes. All were set to KUID. And I also turned off recording suggestions.


Man I really hope it doesn't start freezing up.


----------



## Ziggy86

What is KUID?


----------



## andyw715

Ziggy86 said:


> What is KUID?


Keep Until I Delete.

Back then as a TiVo newbie, I didn't really know what I was doing and had all the SP's set for KUID. This could screw up the scheduling as TiVo might not know to record future episodes of SP's due to it thinking there won't be enough space.

Maybe there is some bug between buffer recording and programming storage.


----------



## Langree

Ziggy86 said:


> What is KUID?


Keep Until You Delete


----------



## jkbrowne

I sure hope this new 9.4 update fixes the freezing/stuttering issues. I'm ready for my THD boxes to be stable....tired of rebooting.


----------



## morac

seedysailor said:


> I certainly will. It was not advertised as a "freeze" fix, so I hope it is?


I don't know if it's one way or the other, but I'll point out that TiVo never lists bug fixes in their update messages. They only list new features.


----------



## erick0305

The freezing is annoying. At least I now know I am not alone.


----------



## vader1918

Add Me....


----------



## 171176

I have a 652 box which is having this problem now. I got this system from an exchange of my other box, which I think was a 648 box having the harddrive failure problem. I'm not having great luck so far. I'm still expecting TiVo will save the day sometime soon.


----------



## Abouna

I should add, I have 2 HD units, one at my house and one next door at my parents. Theirs (with a working M card) is having freeze problems, while mine (no M card, just straight cable) hasn't had a glitch yet.

Not sure if that means anything but I'm willing to bet it does.


----------



## 171176

Abouna said:


> I should add, I have 2 HD units, one at my house and one next door at my parents. Theirs (with a working M card) is having freeze problems, while mine (no M card, just straight cable) hasn't had a glitch yet.
> 
> Not sure if that means anything but I'm willing to bet it does.


I don't think the M-card has anything to do with it. I just use OTA HD on my super-cheap rabbet ear antenna. I'm having the screen freeze/audio continues/menus ARE responsive problem just like everybody else.

I have my system set to Native picture and "Panel" aspect. I've noticed that the freezes seem to happen a lot when the display mode (480i, 720p, 1080i) switches from one to another when I switch channels or go from a 480i broadcast to the menus (which appear in 720p for me, I think).


----------



## Abouna

jhawkstew said:


> I don't think the M-card has anything to do with it. I just use OTA HD on my super-cheap rabbet ear antenna. I'm having the screen freeze/audio continues/menus ARE responsive problem just like everybody else.
> 
> I have my system set to Native picture and "Panel" aspect. I've noticed that the freezes seem to happen a lot when the display mode (480i, 720p, 1080i) switches from one to another when I switch channels or go from a 480i broadcast to the menus (which appear in 720p for me, I think).


So much for my theory!


----------



## dsb411

Yup same problem. 2 HD TIVOS freeze 2-3x per week.


----------



## Ziggy86

Have you received the 9.4 update yet?


----------



## 171176

Ziggy86 said:


> Have you received the 9.4 update yet?


I don't think I have the 9.4 update yet. I'll double check tonight, and try to force a connection to TiVo if I don't have it yet.

Has the 9.4 update fixed this problem for most people?


----------



## Beachbum55

As of last night I'm back to square one. My Series 3 is dead in the water. Constant re-boots and it took forever for the menu to come up. Even when the menu did appear, I couldn't navigate.

I have an old Pioneer TIVO that has operated flawlessly for years and I haven't had one problem with the S3 in the 1+ year that I've owned it.

THIS SUCKS!!!


----------



## jy3

Beachbum55 said:


> As of last night I'm back to square one. My Series 3 is dead in the water. Constant re-boots and it took forever for the menu to come up. Even when the menu did appear, I couldn't navigate.
> 
> I have an old Pioneer TIVO that has operated flawlessly for years and I haven't had one problem with the S3 in the 1+ year that I've owned it.
> 
> THIS SUCKS!!!


Just for the record are you referring to a THX or THD?


----------



## Beachbum55

Series 3 THX.


----------



## 171176

Beachbum55 said:


> Series 3 THX.


That's a different issue than what is being covered on this thread. I agree, it sucks when our TiVos don't work. We all have come to depend on them. However, please use a different thread that is specific to the S3 THX issue. This thread is for a very specific issue with TiVo HD units experiencing frozen video but not menu lockups.


----------



## SeRv0

My TiVo HD has received the 9.4 update but still freezes. The only way to resume operation is to reboot with the power cord. I guess this might be a hardware issue.


----------



## 171176

SeRv0 said:


> My TiVo HD has received the 9.4 update but still freezes. The only way to resume operation is to reboot with the power cord. I guess this might be a hardware issue.


The issue with units freezing completely (unresponsive menus, requires reboot to do anything, etc) is a different issue. I think TiVo folks have narrowed this thread's issue down to units with a serial number that starts with 652. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Ziggy86

jhawkstew said:


> I think TiVo folks have narrowed this thread's issue down to units with a serial number that starts with 652.


Please tell me more about this, my unit starts with 652


----------



## SeRv0

jhawkstew said:


> The issue with units freezing completely (unresponsive menus, requires reboot to do anything, etc) is a different issue. I think TiVo folks have narrowed this thread's issue down to units with a serial number that starts with 652. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong.


My TiVo Service Number begins with 652. I have experienced the following:
- Menu lock-ups requiring reboot
- Spontaneous reboots while watching "live" or recorded programs
- Lock-ups during playback requiring hard boots
- Reboots while recording resulting in multiple Now Playing listings for the same recording (with missed content)
- Video freezing while watching "live" tv (I can back-up in the buffer but the video freezes again at the same point -- Switching to a different channel and back again will resolve)

Thanks for the clarification on this thread. I'll see if 9.4 helps with the video freezing problem.


----------



## 171176

Ziggy86 said:


> Please tell me more about this, my unit starts with 652


The best thing to do is simply read this whole thread. To save you some time, just look for all posts from a TiVo employee. TiVoJerry has provided some good information around page 24 or 25 of this thread.


----------



## slowbiscuit

SeRv0 said:


> My TiVo Service Number begins with 652. I have experienced the following:
> - Menu lock-ups requiring reboot
> - Spontaneous reboots while watching "live" or recorded programs
> - Lock-ups during playback requiring hard boots
> - Reboots while recording resulting in multiple Now Playing listings for the same recording (with missed content)
> - Video freezing while watching "live" tv (I can back-up in the buffer but the video freezes again at the same point -- Switching to a different channel and back again will resolve)
> 
> Thanks for the clarification on this thread. I'll see if 9.4 helps with the video freezing problem.


Sure sounds like you have a hard drive problem with that many issues.


----------



## maryyugo

My TiVo HD Service Number begins with 652. I purchased a TiVo branded Western Digital extender. I suffered freezes which got worse gradually-- initially they could be resolved by using fast forward. Then the whole system, both playback from recordings and on the air, froze completely except for a few seconds of sound with a frozen picture. I re-deleted all the deleted programs which in reality are saved under "recently deleted" and that process which took about 15 minutes (248 items had been saved) did fix the freeze. I expect that I will set all season passes to "Keep Until I Delete" (KUID) which, while inconvenient, will keep my "deleted" folder from clutter. Why I should have to do any of these things, I have no idea. Didn't TiVo test their software before they issued it?

And I have another problem. The extender (TiVo branded external hard drive) intermittently and unpredictably gets unrecognized by the main TiVo device. I suspect the E-SATA wire and connectors which are extremely flimsy. After all these years, we can't be provided with decent cables and connectors? I can fix the problem (until the next time) by yanking all the cords and reconnecting them in the correct sequence (HD first, then TiVo) and then waiting the long wait for the usual startup sequence dance. More wasted time. Frankly, while the convenience and ad-free viewing of TiVo and similar machines is hard to beat, it is almost cancelled by all the hassles and infelicities.

I have one final gripe. TiVo has no email support which means that you have to be on telephone hold, sometimes interminably, to talk to a live person who, usually doesn't have a clue and goes through a lengthy script/spiel which most often doesn't help. That's unacceptable. These forums are a HUGE help but the company should assist also.

In summary, there is no really satisfactory way to perform the functions that TiVo does. I've tried Microsoft's Media Center PC and it creates many problems and has many faults-- I am still playing with it to avoid jerky playback and intermittent desynch'd sound. I've heard terrible things about the DVR's supplied from cable and satellite companies and anyway, who wants to buy a DVR by the month? My TiVo's have been generally unreliable -- software AND hardware problems abounded. True, I'm "responsible" for four units so I get more than a single owner's share but it's way too much, way too often, and way too lengthy and time consuming to fix. I hope someday there will be a satisfactory DVR. I am reconsidering the cable or satellite provider's services. Some of my friends with those get decent service and adequate phone support. Or so they say!

(sorry if typos, no time to proofread-- TiVo's rebooted, hopefully without a fresh disaster)


----------



## TiVoJerry

maryyugo said:


> My TiVo HD Service Number begins with 652. I purchased a TiVo branded Western Digital extender. I suffered freezes which got worse gradually-- initially they could be resolved by using fast forward. Then the whole system, both playback from recordings and on the air, froze completely except for a few seconds of sound with a frozen picture. I re-deleted all the deleted programs which in reality are saved under "recently deleted" and that process which took about 15 minutes (248 items had been saved) did fix the freeze. I expect that I will set all season passes to "Keep Until I Delete" (KUID) which, while inconvenient, will keep my "deleted" folder from clutter. Why I should have to do any of these things, I have no idea. Didn't TiVo test their software before they issued it?
> 
> And I have another problem. The extender (TiVo branded external hard drive) intermittently and unpredictably gets unrecognized by the main TiVo device. I suspect the E-SATA wire and connectors which are extremely flimsy. After all these years, we can't be provided with decent cables and connectors? I can fix the problem (until the next time) by yanking all the cords and reconnecting them in the correct sequence (HD first, then TiVo) and then waiting the long wait for the usual startup sequence dance.


Western Digital is the manufacturer of the My DVR Expander. We tested the cabling that was originally included in the packaging but we've heard reports that they may have changed to a different cable for a short while without notifying us. The incorrect cable is not tight on both ends and can come out of the socket, particularly if the expander stands upright. A weak or intermittent connection can be the cause of all of the symptoms listed above.

If contacting WD to ask them for a new cable is not something you wish to tackle, you may want to try placing the expander on its side to relieve the weight from the connector. This _*should *_relieve the symptoms you are reporting.

**Make sure that the esata cable is not running by a source of magnetism, such as a speaker or amplifier, as that could also introduce problems.

BTW, we used to provide email support in the past but found that it was impractical and ineffecient due to the time it took going back and forth. Many customers would not include enough information for us to troubleshoot effectively, and we could not be certain that all of our troubleshooting steps had been followed when the reply only contained, "Yup, I did all that. What's next?". In the end it was determined that phone support was a much better use of our resources and provided the best customer experience we could offer.

That said, we continue to evaluate other alternatives in an effort to best support our customers and reduce the number of calls that need to be made to receive assistance.

If you have further comments or concerns, please address them to me in a private message so we do not dilute the purpose of this particular thread.

Thank you.


----------



## louisb

I have the same problem. It has gotten worse. The tivo reboots and locks up. It is totally useless no. I contacted support and they told me it is a software bug. I asked for a free months of service which they gave me.


----------



## unit101

I will keep this short... feel free to email me direct for more questions or help. [email protected] 
I have exact same problems with Tivo 3 HD since early May... remove coax input works ok - insert - freezes, lockup, pixelation.... basically Tivo won't work.

Finally just oredered new HDD from weaknees... Tivo is now on same software 9.3a and working great. I suspect soon I will get 9.4.

All that I have read (many hours) is that the new software changes a bit how they buffer the video stream... so if your HDD was a bit flacky it is NOW dead...

I don't imagine my solution is a fix for EVERYONE... but every single post I have read where they replaced the HDD it FIXED and Stayed Fixed


----------



## dallastx

My TiVo HD w/SN 652, SW 9.3a, 2 Motorola &#8216;S&#8217; cable cards on Verizon FiOS, started picture freezes the last week in June. Originally I could correct the problem with a couple of channel changes or using the review button. After a week I found that I had to do a warm reboot (from the menu) to cure the freeze. The freezes usually occurred following a channel change.

I discovered that if I did a warm reboot once a day at my convenience, I wouldn't experience any freezes (or any other problem). I've been doing a warm reboot once a day for a week now. I'm not happy about having to do the reboots, but I am able to use my TiVo without worrying about freezes.

I would think that all a warm reboot does is re-initialize the software like the stack, heap, buffers, etc. It appears that the longer TiVo runs after rebooting, the more likely it is to freeze. Perhaps the loss and re-establishment of signal (pulling the RF connector) also causes one of these areas to be reinitialized. Rebooting seems to allow the TiVo to run for at least 24 hours.

To maryyugo, I've had two Series I Tivo's since 1999. Both have expansion drives and both have been running continuously. I've had my TiVo HD for a year. Up until the end of June it has been trouble free. My point is that TiVo has an incredible reliability record and hopefully they'll fix this problem soon. Maybe this experience will get them to test future software on employee units for a month or two before uploading it to all applicable TiVo's.


----------



## MrStoby

I'm tired of all of us having the same freezing video problem on HD cable card TIVO. I have to reboot my TIVO about once a week.
You would think they would have a fix for it by now.


----------



## 171176

MrStoby said:


> I'm tired of all of us having the same freezing video problem on HD cable card TIVO. I have to reboot my TIVO about once a week.
> You would think they would have a fix for it by now.


To be clear for those who read this thread... the current issue being discussed in this thread is not related to the use of cable cards in a TiVo HD. The same issue is present for people using just an antenna.


----------



## pmokover

Does the freezing problem being discussed in this thread affect just the TiVO HD, just the Series 3 or both models?


----------



## greg_burns

pmokover said:


> Does the freezing problem being discussed in this thread affect just the TiVO HD, just the Series 3 or both models?


TivoHD only.



TiVoJerry said:


> Since this is a long thread, I'll reiterate the qualifications:
> 1> You have a TiVo HD (652 prefix only)
> 2> You are experiencing frozen (still frame) video but are still able to access menus and the guide normally. In other words, your DVR is not locked up.
> 3> You can resolve the issue by either changing channels, using trickplay (FF, RWD, etc), or by restarting the DVR.


----------



## Tkilmer

greg_burns said:


> Originally Posted by TiVoJerry
> 
> Since this is a long thread, I'll reiterate the qualifications:
> 1> You have a TiVo HD (652 prefix only)
> 2> You are experiencing frozen (still frame) video but are still able to access menus and the guide normally. In other words, your DVR is not locked up.
> 3> You can resolve the issue by either changing channels, using trickplay (FF, RWD, etc), or by restarting the DVR.


Yep. I qualify, I am hoping the 9.4 software fixes this. If not and they want more Beta Testers with the issue I might call to join.


----------



## cmeinck

I just got off the phone with TiVo customer support. Despite following this thread, I thought it best if I let them know I was among those experiencing the problem. 

To my surprise, they answered the phone quickly and knew exactly what I was talking about. They expect to push a release in 1-2 weeks. If not, then at least I have a case # and can ask for some type of credit.

I have two TiVo HD's -- both with cable cards. Happens on both, but one more often than the other and that's every 2 days or so.


----------



## Ziggy86

cmeinck said:


> They expect to push a release in 1-2 weeks.


I wonder if they are refering to the release of 9.4 which some people have been getting.


----------



## seedysailor

I received the new software on 7/16/08 9.4L6-01-652. I continued with some problems but do some work on computers and thought it not fair with a new software load to keep some of the old (before new software load) recordings. I had the beginning TIVO recording stopping and starting and noticed it always acted up in the same areas no matter how many times I rebooted (soft or completely unhooking the unit and reinstalling). About last weekend I did a complete hard drive wipe and hard reboot. 

The TIVO start info completely changed (no stops or stuttering). I got complete control of all the menu's which I did not have previously. I have left the TIVO suggestions unactivated and have only recorded on demand. I also have left the season pass unactivated. I am trying to keep things simple and so far their have been absolutely no glitches. I know 5 days is not great, but this is looking good. Stay tuned!

As a point of interest, when I first got the "bad" problems I had a large number of recordings and the TIVO suggestions were running through the night. I have no idea of the hard drive was full during that period, but I certainly could not watch more than a few of the shows being recorded in each evening. I suspected that when the hard drive got above say 75&#37; full the freezing started.


----------



## muerte33

TiVoJerry said:


> Western Digital is the manufacturer of the My DVR Expander. We tested the cabling that was originally included in the packaging but we've heard reports that they may have changed to a different cable for a short while without notifying us. The incorrect cable is not tight on both ends and can come out of the socket, particularly if the expander stands upright. A weak or intermittent connection can be the cause of all of the symptoms listed above.
> 
> If contacting WD to ask them for a new cable is not something you wish to tackle, you may want to try placing the expander on its side to relieve the weight from the connector. This _*should *_relieve the symptoms you are reporting.
> 
> **Make sure that the esata cable is not running by a source of magnetism, such as a speaker or amplifier, as that could also introduce problems.
> 
> BTW, we used to provide email support in the past but found that it was impractical and ineffecient due to the time it took going back and forth. Many customers would not include enough information for us to troubleshoot effectively, and we could not be certain that all of our troubleshooting steps had been followed when the reply only contained, "Yup, I did all that. What's next?". In the end it was determined that phone support was a much better use of our resources and provided the best customer experience we could offer.
> 
> That said, we continue to evaluate other alternatives in an effort to best support our customers and reduce the number of calls that need to be made to receive assistance.
> 
> If you have further comments or concerns, please address them to me in a private message so we do not dilute the purpose of this particular thread.
> 
> Thank you.


Here is the reply I got from WD on their flimsy new E-sata cable:

Thank you for contacting Western Digital Customer Service and Support.

If you turn the cable around do you still have the same issue on the TiVo side? If so you will need to contact TiVo as these connections are industry standard. If after turning the cable around, if it does not fit snugly on the drive side then the cable is bad and wil need to be replaced. Please let me know.

Sincerely,
James K.
Western Digital Service and Support


----------



## jy3

TiVoJerry said:


> If you are saying that the DVR reboots on its own, or becomes totally unresponsive to the remote, you are NOT experiencing what this thread is about. This thread is discussing the display of a single frame of video (unmoving, frozen image) BUT all other menus and behaviors are normal. In this case, only playback is affected. A reboot resolves the issue.
> 
> Again, if your unit is completely locked up or rebooting on its own, you are having a different problem and need to stop associating it with this thread. It only adds to the confusion of others who don't have time to dive through every post in this thread.


Is there a thread dedicated to these issues, and will the 9.4 update address this as well?

I have an HD box running 9.2 that is displaying all of the above symptoms.


----------



## greg_burns

jy3 said:


> Is there a thread dedicated to these issues, and will the 9.4 update address this as well?
> 
> I have an HD box running 9.2 that is displaying all of the above symptoms.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=372111


----------



## TiVo Steve

It finally happened here too! I was playing live TV (SD on SciFi HD), when my TiVo HD just froze. I wasn't recording anything at the time.

Every live channel I went to froze. Everything on my NP list I tried to play locked up (froze). I had to restart the unit. Working OK again.

I'm using a 500GB DB35 Seagate internal drive with no external drive. 
TiVo HD _new_ this Feb, hard drive _new_ this march. Single M-Card. 9.3 software.


----------



## BusDriverCharlie

I have had my TIVO HD since December and had zero freeze problems until this week. The big change was that I had cable cards added 9 days ago and BAM!! Freeze ups started a couple days later.


----------



## csrx

I've had this problem on my TivoHD ever since the 9.3 update. I've been patiently monitoring this thread hoping for a solution, which has yet to come. I've finally decided to post because it's beginning to frustrate me.

These problems haven't affected my S3, only the Tivo HD.

I have not contacted customer support because I am not interested in exchanging my box, I am 99% sure this is software related. 
The thing that bothers me is the most is that Tivo can't simply rollback to the previous version which had none of the problems. I am not interested in the new features if my box keeps choking up. Yes tivo is looking into the problem and wants to fix it. Well they can do it in their labs and give me back 9.2 while they fix 9.3 and experiment with it.

Here are my answers:

*1.* 652

*2.* HDMI

*3.* Panel =Aspect correction mode
Ratio = 16:9 widescreen
video output format = Native

*4.* Variable, could be hours and it could be days.

*5.* Both

*6.* No, I notice the problem when I turn my tv on and the video is not fluid, its stutturing or freezes.


----------



## RayZorFist

Had my Tivo HD for 4 days. Watching live TV this morning and video locked up on me, almost like it was paused but the audio kept playing. I could not get recorded shows to play more than 2 seconds before it froze.

I did a restart and so far no problems.

I had the cable guy do a signal strength check yesterday when he did the cable card install and he said the strength was excellent, near 100%.

Software version 9.3a.

Not good but nice to have a lot of company in my misery.


----------



## tivoknucklehead

just had my first noticable set of picture freezes. Tivo Series 3, 9.4. minor annoyance, but hope they fix this soon


----------



## outpost

I don't know if it's been checked before, but last night, my Tivo was frozen, so I left it overnight and scheduled a program to record, and it did successfully record it.

As I've noticed in my last few freezes, the Tivo introductory shorts and the Music Choice music videos still play during a freeze. What could account for that? Short programs are exempt?

Could this be related to something like the need to defrag on computers?

Has anyone tried a full "delete everything" from the restart list? I'm intending to do that if I can ever get through viewing all my recorded programs. Is there any point?


----------



## dallastx

New twist.

I started getting freezes the last week of June. Since a warm reboot always cured it, I started doing daily reboots about 3 weeks ago and hadn't had a freeze since. That is until now. I just did my daily reboot. After it finished I hit Live TV. The picture froze within seconds. Channel changes wouldn't cure it. I decided to try removing the cable. I got the loss of signal message and plugged the cable back in. Within seconds the picture froze again. I did another warm reboot and everything seems okay, but this has really got we worried.

This a a TiVo HD with 9.3a.


----------



## Ziggy86

Are you using HDMI cables?


----------



## blm

My TiVo HD started doing this a few weeks ago. I got it new at the end of May, and am using it with one M card, no HDMI cables, and an external WD hard drive. I don't record HD (so why did I get an HD? My cable company switched to all digital around the first of July, so I would have had to use a cable box with my Series 2. I (foolishly) thought upgrading to an HD would be easier), and I've seen the freezing when not recording, recording on one channel, and recording on two channels. Restarting when not recording fixed it for a while, but if I'm recording I don't want to restart and interrupt the recording.

With the ridiculously loose eSATA connector, the slow menu transitions, the lack of autorepeat half the time, the random jumps after fast-forward and rewind, and now the freezing, I'm regretting ever buying the HD. My Series 2 worked great, I basically loathe my HD.


----------



## TiVoJerry

For those experiencing frozen video on their TiVo HD, I finally have some good news to report. We are throwing the big switch today to roll out 9.4. We incorporated changes aimed at addressing the video freeze issue. 

All testing up to this point indicates the situation to be resolved, but we remain cautiously optimistic with our predictions because the issue for some may be caused by multiple factors. As such, we want to hear from the people in this thread once you've received 9.4 so we can be sure of the situation. 

With the release of the new software, we've stopped taking new Early Access requests for the moment. The software will roll out quickly enough that there is no need for a priority list either.


----------



## Ziggy86

Great news!!!!!!!

Thanks for the heads up.

Steven


----------



## Millionaire2K

I cant get it.


----------



## BradVA

TiVoJerry said:


> For those experiencing frozen video on their TiVo HD, I finally have some good news to report. We are throwing the big switch today to roll out 9.4. We incorporated changes aimed at addressing the video freeze issue.
> 
> All testing up to this point indicates the situation to be resolved, but we remain cautiously optimistic with our predictions because the issue for some may be caused by multiple factors. As such, we want to hear from the people in this thread once you've received 9.4 so we can be sure of the situation.
> 
> With the release of the new software, we've stopped taking new Early Access requests for the moment. The software will roll out quickly enough that there is no need for a priority list either.


I've had 9.4 since it initially started rolling out and I haven't experienced a freeze since the update. I was previously seeing video freezes on an almost daily basis. Hopefully this is a permanent solution for most of us.


----------



## morac

Millionaire2K said:


> I cant get it.


You don't get it, it comes to you.


----------



## TiVoJerry

The rollout goes to a random set of units at the fastest rate we can roll out to the entire population. If you force a connection that does not end in Pending Restart, you aren't auth'd for an upgrade at that moment. In this case, forcing a connection will not get you the software any sooner (a "watched pot" and all that). You have to wait until the next daily push before trying again....or just waiting until SW downloads on its own so you can be surprised.


----------



## Ziggy86

TiVoJerry said:


> The rollout goes to a random set of units at the fastest rate we can roll out to the entire population. If you force a connection that does not end in Pending Restart, you aren't auth'd for an upgrade at that moment. In this case, forcing a connection will not get you the software any sooner (a "watched pot" and all that). You have to wait until the next daily push before trying again....or just waiting until SW downloads on its own so you can be surprised.


Tivo Jerry,

I have seen a few post online where people say after downloading the update the Tivo unit hangs and must be re-booted manually. Is this the case or should it happen on it's own. I just wanted to know so I can tell my parents who just started using TIVO and are not really used to it yet.

Steven


----------



## Chris8204

I downloaded 9.4 last night, took about an hour for everything to finish up. (Download time, plus reboot+install time). It went without any problems, now I will just sit back and wait and see if the freeze returns. I'll post any updates if I find any problems.


----------



## morac

Ziggy86 said:


> I have seen a few post online where people say after downloading the update the Tivo unit hangs and must be re-booted manually. Is this the case or should it happen on it's own. I just wanted to know so I can tell my parents who just started using TIVO and are not really used to it yet.


The TiVo is supposed to restart on it's own. It has been known to get stuck at the powering up screen in the past and require a manual intervention, but this is (was?) an extremely rare condition and most TiVo users never have this issue.

Since the TiVo normally installs new software at 2 AM in the morning, unless your parents are night owls, it should be up and running the new software well before they wake up. If it's stuck at the power up screen, simply unplugging it, waiting 30 seconds and plugging it back in should get it working again.


----------



## tteton

My 10 month old workhorse broke down just before July 4th. Freezing on HD antenna stations first and slowly migrated to the menus with the antenna connected. I could not even navigate to the antenna signal menu unless the antenna was disconnected. Support advised the update would not "fix" my issue and the only option was the refurbished $49 exchange. OK... I received my refurbished unit 2 days later and connected it. The unit was set to the original roll out software etc. and after about 5 days started doing the same thing... First, HD only... I could still watch digital stations but just not 720 and above... Then, the digital stations and menus started messing up 2 days later and now... The system is down again.. I can only use it with the antenna disconnected... I can listen to music over my network and even when I try and download a show from amazon unbox, antenna disconnected, the system starts to freeze during download... Playback of previously recorded and newly downloaded shows still work fine.. I am still waiting for the download which support admits may fix some machines... I am hoping it will mine.. TIVO offered 2 months free. I told support that I would hope they I am in the que to get the update sooner than later.. Well, it is 7/30 and still no update. I check the system info daily and if each days connect has been done but still no update. I am at the end of my TIVO rope. I feel like a beta tester but of course I am not. I had to go out and purchase a rabbit ear antenna to hook up my tv tuner to in order to get tv... I am missing my shows and have been using the network internet playbacks to see some but I am totally unsatisfied with this. I had a 7 year old tivo that never gave problems and thought this purchase would be the same... I lost my original tivo to a divorce and am still without tivo and the big bucks I spent to purchase it...

I was told everything in support from it is my tivo box, antenna, the update won't help to we are doing everything we can... I even spoke to a level 2 person that said that they tested the update and didn't have any problems, when customers started calling about problems they thought it was cable card issue only to oooops... We have a problem... I am sure there are many issues that will cause freezing but something and I mean something had to have happened on their end to cause such a mess.. I wish a phone call could have resolved this. I have called more times than I can count. Completed more surveys when the call is over than I can remember and talked to more folks than I care to remember... Held on for a support person for as much as an hour or more at a time and sometimes have gotten someone almost instantly. Most of the support people have been very empathetic but still, no resolution...

What should I do next?


----------



## tteton

Watched pot... LOL.... Well, my TIVO connected at 5:30pm and no update. Immediately after I wrote the above rant, I went and "forced the connection"... My tivo ran for a while and when done, I checked the status and it was in pending restart... Well, I forced the restart and it is doing its thing... I will update this thread once it is back online... The screen said it was installing a service update, after 10 minutes, it rebooted and now states that it is preparing the service update and may take over an hour. Again, I will provide an update here.


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## tteton

Well, the 9.4 update is installed. I even cleared and deleted everything. I guess the damage is done. The machine still won't allow the antenna to be hooked up as it freezes the machine. I can't even navigate over to the signal strength to set up the antenna. This is ridiculous. I may be done with TIVO. I will call in the am and decide if I just want to return the system and receive a credit back on the price of the system. Good luck to you guys.


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## resthome

TiVoJerry said:


> For those experiencing frozen video on their TiVo HD, I finally have some good news to report. We are throwing the big switch today to roll out 9.4. We incorporated changes aimed at addressing the video freeze issue.
> 
> All testing up to this point indicates the situation to be resolved, but we remain cautiously optimistic with our predictions because the issue for some may be caused by multiple factors. As such, we want to hear from the people in this thread once you've received 9.4 so we can be sure of the situation.
> 
> With the release of the new software, we've stopped taking new Early Access requests for the moment. The software will roll out quickly enough that there is no need for a priority list either.


Well I got 9.4 yesterday and tonight the HD box totally froze while watching a previous 9.3 recorded show. Had to remove power to get it to reboot. Had a few random freezes and then it started to play after that reboot. Under 9.3 I would also see random reboots. So time will tell but it's not looking good for 9.4 for me. 

The unit was new in March 08 and had the freezing and studder problem before I add the WD 500G expander.


----------



## dallastx

I just got 9.4 about two hours ago. I force a reboot when the download completed. It came up running okay which was a relief after some of the comments. 

I had been having freezes almost daily since the last week of June. For the last three weeks I've been rebooting daily to ward off the freezes. It worked pretty good, with one exception I've been problem free since I started the daily reboots.

I guess we'll see if 9.4 is the fix.


----------



## ekeron

I've followed this thread quite closely for 3 weeks (when my freezes started), so I'm fairly confident the problem I was having are the same as the freezes described above. 

I had freezes about once or twice a week with 9.3. Since downloading 9.4 on Friday I've had 5 freezes requiring the obligatory power cycle. I worry that my Tivo will be completely unusable if it freezes this often. 

No one else has posted with problems since 9.4. Am I alone?


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## mike3775

I quit having freezes prior to the release, but if the release stops them for good, I'm happy


----------



## dallastx

I had a freeze last night. My THD wouldn't respond to remote commands. After about a minute, it rebooted by itself.

We'll see if this reoccurs.


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## Chris8204

Well 9.4 seems to have fixed my issue. With 9.3 I was having freezes usually about once a day, sometimes more, sometimes less. Since I got 9.4 a few days ago, my TiVo has been rock solid. I'll continue to watch it, but so far if it hasn't fixed it, it has at least made it better because this is the longest it's gone without a freeze in months.


----------



## uksausage

I got 9.4 on my series 3 system last week (July 31st I think).
Previously I didn't have any freeze problems. 
I now get it on every playback I try to do - from recorded show or from the 30 minute buffer.
will try to forward - plays 2 seconds then waits minute or so and ultimately reboots.
disk is pretty full as I have the AFI top 100 movies guru guide.

Is it disk fragmentation?
can I revert back to previous release - but I do like You Tube!


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## Welshdog

So I have an S3 and a Tivo HD both on analog cable, no cable cards. Both get antenna inputs as well. I'm on TWC Austin and I have QAM channels. All HDMI devices go through a Monoprice HDX-401E switch on their way to a Toshiba 52xf550u TV through a 75ft Blue Jeans bonded pair cable. The S3 had been exhibiting freezing issues and they have disappeared with 9.4, but the Tivo HD has a new problem. It seems to have developed a HDCP handshake issue and now displays HDCP snow any time you change format. I have worked around this issue by setting the Tivo to 1080i fixed output. Inconvenient, but it works.

Personally think the Monoprice switch is not up to the task and plan to replace it with a Zektor. However, this behavior seemed to begin when the 9.4 update hit the Tivo HD. So . . . . not sure. Any thoughts?

Otherwise 9.4 is great. Like the new features and even use the Youtube app.


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## moyekj

uksausage said:


> I got 9.4 on my series 3 system last week (July 31st I think).
> Previously I didn't have any freeze problems.
> I now get it on every playback I try to do - from recorded show or from the 30 minute buffer.
> will try to forward - plays 2 seconds then waits minute or so and ultimately reboots.
> disk is pretty full as I have the AFI top 100 movies guru guide.
> 
> Is it disk fragmentation?
> can I revert back to previous release - but I do like You Tube!


 The 9.4 release is supposed to solve the video freeze problem where the background loopset still works fine as do other DVR functions other than video playback. Your symptoms are different and suggest a hard drive problem.


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## pmokover

I've been holding off on buying a TiVo HD until this freezing problem is resolved. There have been no messages posted in this thread for four days. Is that because the 9.4 software fixed the problem and everyone is now happy or is the problem still happening?

Peter


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## cmeinck

pmokover said:


> I've been holding off on buying a TiVo HD until this freezing problem is resolved. There have been no messages posted in this thread for four days. Is that because the 9.4 software fixed the problem and everyone is now happy or is the problem still happening?
> 
> Peter


I had it happen last night. Software 9.4 didn't fix the problem for me.


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## TiVoJerry

cmeinck said:


> I had it happen last night. Software 9.4 didn't fix the problem for me.


I, too, have been waiting for people to say what is going on. We made changes that were pointed at several key areas but weren't ready to claim victory.

Just to be clear, you have a TiVo HD (652 prefix) and the video got stuck (stayed that way until restart) on a still frame but the box was responsive and menu items worked? And this was only resolved with a reboot? If so, send me a PM with your TSN so I can turn on logging.

If you are reporting that the unit became totally unresponsive (i.e. locked up), we consider that unrelated.


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## RichB

TiVoJerry said:


> If you are reporting that the unit became totally unresponsive (i.e. locked up), we consider that unrelated.


I had this problem. Can you suggest some causes for this problem?

- Rich


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## TiVoJerry

TiVoJerry said:


> If you are reporting that the unit became totally unresponsive (i.e. locked up), we consider that unrelated.





RichB said:


> I had this problem. Can you suggest some causes for this problem?
> - Rich


Without knowing all of the details of your setup, here are a few things to check (*if applicable*):
-check connection of esata and HDMI cables on both ends.
-if using HDMI, try connecting to different port on A/V and TV. Disconnect HDMI and see if issue recurs using different cables.
-disconnect Ethernet or USB
-if using DVR Expander, following troubleshooting in our online article.
**SMART diags may not catch all drive problems. If you don't get a failure, I'd suggest divorcing the external drive and seeing if the issue returns. This is the last thing to suggest before processing an exchange.

Keep in mind that these steps can take awhile to confirm depending on how frequent your problem occurs.


----------



## RichB

TiVoJerry said:


> Without knowing all of the details of your setup, here are a few things to check (*if applicable*):
> -check connection of esata and HDMI cables on both ends.
> -if using HDMI, try connecting to different port on A/V and TV. Disconnect HDMI and see if issue recurs using different cables.
> -disconnect Ethernet or USB
> -if using DVR Expander, following troubleshooting in our online article.
> **SMART diags may not catch all drive problems. If you don't get a failure, I'd suggest divorcing the external drive and seeing if the issue returns. This is the last thing to suggest before processing an exchange.
> 
> Keep in mind that these steps can take awhile to confirm depending on how frequent your problem occurs.


It was a single expanded drive using FIOS and two cards.
It freezes hard. I had it at my Mother-in-Laws and we gave up on it.
I wonder how to make sure it is an OK unit, should I just replace the drive as a precaution before deploying it at my Fathers house?

- Rich


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## mccauley

TiVoJerry said:


> I, too, have been waiting for people to say what is going on. We made changes that were pointed at several key areas but weren't ready to claim victory.
> 
> Just to be clear, you have a TiVo HD (652 prefix) and the video got stuck (stayed that way until restart) on a still frame but the box was responsive and menu items worked? And this was only resolved with a reboot? If so, send me a PM with your TSN so I can turn on logging.
> 
> If you are reporting that the unit became totally unresponsive (i.e. locked up), we consider that unrelated.


The new software (9.4-01-2-652) seems to have cured the problem I was having with frequent (every couple of days) video freezes on two TiVo HDs (652 prefix). To be clear, my freezes did not require a "hard" reboot (i.e., by powering down the system). Menus still worked for me but video would freeze. I routinely worked around the problem with soft reboots via the menu system. I have not needed to reboot and have not experienced freezes since the new software downloaded on 7/31 (upstairs) and 8/1 (downstairs). I waited to post until now because I wanted a week's time to evaluate the upgrade.

Thanks to TiVo for being responsive on this issue. I notice in reading other posts, that it seems to me that many of the users who are still having problems have symptoms different from what I understand the new software was meant to fix (e.g., freezes that require a hard reboot to fix).


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## dallastx

Like McCauley, I wanted to wait a week. Also I was afraid that saying that my problem seems to be resolved would jinx me.

My 652 THD had been having freezing almost daily since I received 9.3a the end of June. Sometimes a channel change would resolve the freeze, but most often it would require a warm boot. I would occassionaly also get a hard lockup requiring a hard reboot. I had absolutely no problems for the previous year before receiving 9.3a so I discount the idea that the hard lockup is do to a hardware or disk failure. I do not have an external drive. I have Verizon FiOS with two Motorola cable cards.

The day after I received 9.4, I had a hard lockup while watching a recorded show. In the week since then, I've had no problems what so ever.


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## drWatson23

I had all the symptoms that are covered in this thread with 9.3. My THD (652) would freeze ~1/wk. Disconnecting the antenna for couple seconds would fix it.
Since I got 9.4 upgrade, I have freezes several times a week. Very strange ones too.

Just now, I was recording Dirty Jobs on Discovery Ch 130. It stopped recording about 18 minutes into the show. Only way I noticed was that I was watching a recorded show that froze at the very same time. I got out of the recorded show restarted it and it was working fine. Ch 130 stayed frozen, when I rewounded and watch the last 60 seconds or so, it looks like the commercials are recorded out of order. One commercial starts cuts over to another commercial when that's done goes back to the original commercial (?!?)

I went to Tivo diagnostics and selected test channels, that cancelled recordings, and oddly enough, I have video just fine on Channel 130.

I never experienced freezes like this with 9.3 over last 6 months, so this is definately something new. I also saw this happen within 24 hours of 9.4 installing so I am pretty sure they are related.

Has 9.4 change the way programs are buffered?

FYI, I have a 1TB internal HD so I am not running with stock Tivo HD.


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## spike010700

I have a TivoHD with a DVR Expander and started to see 'freezing' about 2 weeks ago. I have the 9.4 update. The freeze ususally happens when we are watching a recorded HD program. We attempt to fast forward. When we hit play, the screen freezes. Any remote control actions are not performed by the TivoHD. After about 1-2 minutes, TivoHD reboots itself.


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## MameMaster!

I now have 9.4 and I haven't experienced a freeze since the update! :up:


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## TiVoJerry

I've gotten a few reports of issues that seemed to be the video freeze, but were determined to be unrelated once looked into a little further. So far, so good.


----------



## wmhjr

I have two THDs. One is upstairs and is used for SD only. Other than the incredible pain of getting it working with Verizon Fios, it has been pretty much reliable since November. However, the first unit I got has been a problem from day one. It at random gets the grey screen, where it responds to the remote however no TV can be viewed. Only a reboot corrected it. Also, over the course of the past several months, the unit "slows down" and gets very sluggish, requiring a reboot. It also has a WD DVR Expander attached to it.

Yesterday afternoon, I checked and it was again "sluggish". I opted to reboot it proactively so that it would be more usable later in the evening. Unfortunately, after the reboot I cannot view live TV whatsoever. I have rebooted it multiple times as well as actually unplugging it, waiting for a while, and then plugging it back in. No matter what, the unit is effectively now a brick.

Calling Tivo resulted in no results and no resolution. I'm supposed to be called back "in 24-48 hours" with next steps. It is running the 9.4 upgrade. I have no idea what may happen, but what I do know is that a unit that has been somewhat unreliable since purchased is now totally useless and that it doesn't look as though Tivo has a process to address this in a timely manner. No disrespect to TivoJerrry (appreciate his participation) but considering all the issues and the problems that I haven't even mentioned, I'm obviously not optimistic that anything positive will occur. I also believe that I've just lost all content on the DVR Expander as a result of this.


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## dalesd

*wmhjr*, 
Your symptoms don't match the symptoms described in this thread.
Sorry you're having problems, but this thread isn't the place.


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## pmokover

TiVoJerry said:


> I've gotten a few reports of issues that seemed to be the video freeze, but were determined to be unrelated once looked into a little further. So far, so good.


Jerry - I'm trying to determine whether it's "OK" for me to buy a THD now or if it is still not ready for prime time. I currently have a Series 2 which has worked flawlessly 100% of the time since day one. Can I expect the same from a new THD or does it still have some issues?

What are these other (non freeze) issues and have they been resolved?

Peter


----------



## wmhjr

dalesd said:


> *wmhjr*,
> Your symptoms don't match the symptoms described in this thread.
> Sorry you're having problems, but this thread isn't the place.


OK, I'm just trying to find "the place". Haven't been successful so far


----------



## greg_burns

wmhjr said:


> OK, I'm just trying to find "the place". Haven't been successful so far


This thread is where ever one else goes lately.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361087

Most likely hard drive problem.


----------



## TiVoJerry

pmokover said:


> Jerry - I'm trying to determine whether it's "OK" for me to buy a THD now or if it is still not ready for prime time. I currently have a Series 2 which has worked flawlessly 100% of the time since day one. Can I expect the same from a new THD or does it still have some issues?
> 
> What are these other (non freeze) issues and have they been resolved?
> 
> Peter


The "other issues" I'm referring to are not indicative of a software problem. I've previously used the statement "hardware failure" only to find that people drew the assumption that there was an overall defect, which is not what I was trying to convey. Rather, I meant that an individual DVR was experiencing a problem with its hard drive.

As for overall performance of the THD, I'm biased in that I do think it's ready. However, there are customers in Arizona (Cox) that would currently disagree due to an issue specific to that region, although there has been progress towards resolving that issue. I'm sure there are others who may also disagree with me based on their personal experiences.


----------



## RTPGiants

Question for those of you who had freezes.

On my TivoHD, the symptom would be that playback would freeze, but you could still fastforward through the program ok. Menus, etc. worked fine, and a soft reboot would fix. This happened once or twice a week prior to 9.4.

Since 9.4 I haven't seen this yet (knock on wood), but I did see a bizarre issue where it was transferring a desktop TivoToGo transfer. I went out while it was transferring and when I came back a few hours later, it was still transferring, which was odd. During the time I left, Tivo apparently rebooted twice (another program that was recording was split into parts) and the transfer wasn't actually proceeding. Very odd, but I canceled the transfer, restarted it later and all was fine.


----------



## spike010700

spike010700 said:


> I have a TivoHD with a DVR Expander and started to see 'freezing' about 2 weeks ago. I have the 9.4 update. The freeze ususally happens when we are watching a recorded HD program. We attempt to fast forward. When we hit play, the screen freezes. Any remote control actions are not performed by the TivoHD. After about 1-2 minutes, TivoHD reboots itself.


Updating my earlier post, I believe my issue is a drive problem with the DVR expander. My TivoHD with 9.4 is working properly after disconnecting the DVR expander. I'll be sending it back for a replacement.


----------



## charms

Add another 3-generation TiVo owner to the pissed off list. My S2 ran -- literally -- for _years_ without a reboot.

652 THD with WD DVR Expander. Worked perfectly fine until 9.4 came rolling down the pipe. Now I get full-stop freezes, bizarre purple screens, and failed reboots. Only way to get a successful reboot is to power cycle both the DVR-E and the THD. If you cycle only the THD, the reboot doesn't get past the Powering Up screen.

Maybe it's the software, maybe it's the internal hard drive, maybe it's the expander...I really don't care. TiVo roped us all into buying a "TiVo Verified" eSATA drive and we're know all learning how completely meaningless that verification obviously is. Either the software update is killing the hardware or the "verified" hardware is sub-par.

Fix it.


----------



## dallastx

Running like a top for two weeks. My 652 THD ran without a hitch for a year before I got 9.3a the end of June. I then had freezes once every day or two. 9.4 seems to have corrected the problem.


----------



## charms

I've heard the A/B partition argument here, but could someone explain to me how this affects the DVR-E? As I understand the current thesis, the internal drive has two partitions and the new software loads on to the other partition. That partition has some kind of pre-existing defect (bad sectors, etc) causing the TiVo to become unstable running off the damaged partition. Am I understanding that correctly?

Now, how does this extend to the, err, Extender? The TiVo records across both drives simultaneously, right? I would think that the "software" or OS would reside on the internal drive and that the data files (i.e. TV shows) would write to both. That would seem to make sense.

So how does divorcing the DVR-E fix the problem? Are the TiVo freezes being caused because the THD is trying to write to bad sectors on the Extender, essentially causing an I/O traffic jam and causing the TiVo to freeze up? Or is it being cause by bad sectors on the internal, creating flaws in the software?

My TiVo will only reboot when I cycle the DVR-E first and then the THD. That would seem to indicate a problem with the extender. I'm hesitant to divorce it and lose all my saved programs (half of which can't be backed up to my PC because of DRM).

Has anyone tried divorcing the extender and then remarrying the same extender?


----------



## dclack

spike010700 said:


> I have a TivoHD with a DVR Expander and started to see 'freezing' about 2 weeks ago. I have the 9.4 update. The freeze ususally happens when we are watching a recorded HD program. We attempt to fast forward. When we hit play, the screen freezes. Any remote control actions are not performed by the TivoHD. After about 1-2 minutes, TivoHD reboots itself.


This has been happening to me ever since I received the 9.4 upgrade. I just got of the phone with Tivo and they are telling me to return the unit. This sucks, I had no problem until 9.4, now I have to incur the cost of returning the unit, hours and hours setting up the unit again and all because of a new software upgrade from Tivo. I am having serious doubts about sticking with these guys, may have to revert back to the crappy Comcast PVR, but at least that does not freeze and reboot.


----------



## greg_burns

dclack said:


> This has been happening to me ever since I received the 9.4 upgrade. I just got of the phone with Tivo and they are telling me to return the unit. This sucks, I had no problem until 9.4, now I have to incur the cost of returning the unit, hours and hours setting up the unit again and all because of a new software upgrade from Tivo. I am having serious doubts about sticking with these guys, may have to revert back to the crappy Comcast PVR, but at least that does not freeze and reboot.


Do you also have a DVR Expander? Perhaps try divorcing it first to see if the problem is only with it.


----------



## spike010700

charms said:


> Has anyone tried divorcing the extender and then remarrying the same extender?


After divorcing the extender and losing my recorded programs (at least i watched almost all of them), I re-connected the extender. Tivo would not get past the 'powering up' screen. It never saw the extender.


----------



## spike010700

dclack said:


> This has been happening to me ever since I received the 9.4 upgrade. I just got of the phone with Tivo and they are telling me to return the unit. This sucks, I had no problem until 9.4, now I have to incur the cost of returning the unit, hours and hours setting up the unit again and all because of a new software upgrade from Tivo. I am having serious doubts about sticking with these guys, may have to revert back to the crappy Comcast PVR, but at least that does not freeze and reboot.


I had Comcast's Scientific Atlanta DVR and IMHO it was worse than Tivo HD. I switched over to Verizon and got their Motorola DVR and two cable cards for Tivo HD. The Motorola has some freezing issues as well, but not as bad as the Scientific Atlanta, which would miss scheduled recordings.


----------



## timmsc

All is well. With 9.3a I would likely have had a freeze or two by now.


----------



## dankruse

I have two Tivo-HD. First one is a refurb with two cable cards and the WD expander and works flawlessly. The second is brand new from Amazon with no cable cards and no expander. After some period of time, it will stop responding to the remote and freeze. I returned this box and got a replacement and have exactly the same results.

I am thinking of sending this box back too thinking maybe I just got another bad box. However, it only seems to lock up when left tuned to a clear QAM HD station, not when it is tuned to an SD station.

Is it possible that some software issue is causing this? or should I just return this one too and keep my fingers crossed?

All boxes have/had 9.4 software.

Not angry yet ;-) but I will be if I replace this box with a third and still have the same problem.


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## jy3

One of my HD boxes running 9.4 started the freezing thing again as well. I've had 3 or 4 freezes in as many days. I guess the new software didn't 'fix' everything.
Could this be just a bunch of faulty drives? Or maybe these systems just can't handle the taxing HD video imposes. My series 2 really got me hooked on Tivo, it's really too bad the HD experience is wearing me thin.
I thought this BS was over


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## pmokover

TiVoJerry said:


> The "other issues" I'm referring to are not indicative of a software problem. I've previously used the statement "hardware failure" only to find that people drew the assumption that there was an overall defect, which is not what I was trying to convey. Rather, I meant that an individual DVR was experiencing a problem with its hard drive.
> 
> As for overall performance of the THD, I'm biased in that I do think it's ready. However, there are customers in Arizona (Cox) that would currently disagree due to an issue specific to that region, although there has been progress towards resolving that issue. I'm sure there are others who may also disagree with me based on their personal experiences.


Jerry - Thanks for the reply. Let me ask the same basic question this way: I've had a Series 2 for 2-3 years and it works flawlessly. I've had no issues with it since the day I got it. I want to get a THD (Comcast, New Jersey). If I get a new THD today will it likely work as well as my Series 2, not as well, even better? (Note: I'm not asking for a guarantee - just what is likely.)

If the THD currently works as well as a Series 2 I will order one now. If it is currently not up to that level (as a typical user would judge) I can wait.

Thanks.

Peter


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## seedysailor

I was having daily problems with my HD TIVO using 9.3 software previously.
I got 9.4 on 7/16/08. I do not have any cable cards or extenders or antenna's. The unit has been working great. I am so happy since I really like the Olympics and cannot stay up late. Even my wife is happy - thank goodness!! Anyway so far so good.:up:


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## Ziggy86

seedysailor said:


> I was having daily problems with my HD TIVO using 9.3 software previously.
> I got 9.4 on 7/16/08. I do not have any cable cards or extenders or antenna's. The unit has been working great. I am so happy since I really like the Olympics and cannot stay up late. Even my wife is happy - thank goodness!! Anyway so far so good.:up:


I thought the Tivo HD needed cable cards to work. I can not use a set top cable box with mine.


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## dankruse

If you do a 'channel scan', a Tivo HD will pick up any clear QAM stations that are out there. However, you don't get guide data for them, so you have to do manual recordings.


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## jkalnin

I haven't had a freeze issue in quite some time. I am sure that I just jinx it though. Zero problems since 9.4 got installed.


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## dbenrosen

I'm new to the freezing problem, and I don't like it.

It happened THREE times last night in the span of about 3 hours. This was the first instance of it happening. I've had 9.4 for weeks. I have an M-card, no extender. I've had the unit for about 8 months. One time was during playback of a recording, the other times while on Live TV. The unit totally stops responding and needs to be unplugged to come back to life.

My Series 3 is not experiencing any of these problems.


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## jmpage2

pmokover said:


> Jerry - Thanks for the reply. Let me ask the same basic question this way: I've had a Series 2 for 2-3 years and it works flawlessly. I've had no issues with it since the day I got it. I want to get a THD (Comcast, New Jersey). If I get a new THD today will it likely work as well as my Series 2, not as well, even better? (Note: I'm not asking for a guarantee - just what is likely.)
> 
> If the THD currently works as well as a Series 2 I will order one now. If it is currently not up to that level (as a typical user would judge) I can wait.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Peter


The Tivo HD is slower than your series 2 in the menus, slower channel changes, etc. Additionally there are many limitations on the Tivo HD due to the fact that cable cards must be procured from the cable company to make things work. Future use of SDV could render your Tivo HD unable to get all channels.

Personally I'm thrilled with the Tivo HD despite the trade offs of a slower menu and having to rely on cable card.

I would advise you to move forward with a Tivo HD but purchase it from a retailer with a strong return policy in the event that you are in fact disappointed with it.


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## bicker

pmokover said:


> Jerry - Thanks for the reply. Let me ask the same basic question this way: I've had a Series 2 for 2-3 years and it works flawlessly. I've had no issues with it since the day I got it. I want to get a THD (Comcast, New Jersey). If I get a new THD today will it likely work as well as my Series 2, not as well, even better? (Note: I'm not asking for a guarantee - just what is likely.)


"Flawless" is a measurement of reliability (rather than performance or feature functionality). So with regard to reliability, I was trying to think of a good analogy, and the most obvious one is the best: Many of us had tube televisions for many many years, which worked "flawlessly". Now we have HDTVs. I had a light tunnel collapse in my HDTV earlier this year. Stuff happens. The HDTV displays _high definition _television better than the tube television did (because the tube television _didn't_ display _high definition _television ) but that's an element of feature functionality -- it isn't a matter of reliability. There is no escaping the fact that even a middle-grade legacy product will be more reliable than even a top-grade piece of new technology.

The key differences are in the tuner and display technologies. NTSC tuners go back over 50 years, while ATSC and QAM tuners are still comparatively young. Similarly, we've had 480 line displays for over 50 years, while 1080 line display are still comparatively young. (Yes there are other differences. I'm just keeping this simple.)

So the short answer is -- no -- new technology will not be more reliable than old technology. It may be decades before this new technology has the same level of reliability as the old technology.


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## V7Goose

dankruse said:


> If you do a 'channel scan', a Tivo HD will pick up any clear QAM stations that are out there. However, you don't get guide data for them, so you have to do manual recordings.


If you do guided setup and correctly tell the S3 or THD that you are using cable without a box, you will get the correct guide data for the channels you leave selected in the channel list. I don't actually remember if the "without a box" option is in the S3 and THD machines like it was in the S2, but the key is to correctly flag the channels you receive in the channel list after the scan is done. I ran my new THD like this while waiting on Verizon to get out here with my CCs. Of course, the actual results you get are PROBABLY going to be different with each cable company, so what I saw with FiOS may not be what you see. Good luck.


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## V7Goose

Just one more thought for those of you still fighting picture freezes - don't ignore the possibility of signal errors being the cause instead of just software or HDD problems. I know for a fact that signal errors can cause short freezes since I was experiencing that, but I don't know if they can be bad enough for extended lockups and reboots. But they are easy to see in the TiVo diagnostics screen, so there is no reason not to check!


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## steve614

jkalnin said:


> I haven't had a freeze issue in quite some time. I am sure that I just jinx it though. Zero problems since 9.4 got installed.


Yup. No freezes since the update for me, too.


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## Duke

Ditto - 9.4 is working fine for my S3 THX.

Duke


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## wood252ota

Sorry to spoil the party, but I got a freeze with 9.4. I was watching Olympics and the picture pixilated real bad and hung, I went to tivo central and back to the station again and it played for a while then pixilated again. I reboot the tivo and all was fixed. Now before you say it was a bad signal, the next day I tried to bring up the DVR diags (to see the error counters). I had the tivo on 28-1 (my nbc station). But when I went to the diags, they said 30-1. So I left, went out to the other tuner and tuned that to 28-1. Went back in to diags still showed 30-1. Left diags and saw that my station was now re-tuned to 30-1 again. Set one tuner to 28 (analog) other to 28-1 (digital) was watching 28-1 and went into diags. They showed only the 28 station. I could never get it to show the 28-1 station. Restart tivo again. Now it worked as expected and showed the 28-1 station (no errors by the way) I'm not sure what the problem is, but restarting the tivo seems to fix it for a while. My setup is strictly over the air. No cable cards, no ethernet connection. The only thing connected to it is a phone line and an antenna. It is also less than a year old, so I wouldn't be expecting hardware problem this soon in the game. I love my tivo, but just wish it was a little more stable. Sorry forgot to add it is a Tivo HD


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## V7Goose

wood252ota said:


> Sorry to spoil the party, but I got a freeze with 9.4. I was watching Olympics and the picture pixilated real bad and hung, I went to tivo central and back to the station again and it played for a while then pixilated again. I reboot the tivo and all was fixed. Now before you say it was a bad signal, the next day I tried to bring up the DVR diags (to see the error counters). I had the tivo on 28-1 (my nbc station). But when I went to the diags, they said 30-1. So I left, went out to the other tuner and tuned that to 28-1. Went back in to diags still showed 30-1. Left diags and saw that my station was now re-tuned to 30-1 again. Set one tuner to 28 (analog) other to 28-1 (digital) was watching 28-1 and went into diags. They showed only the 28 station. I could never get it to show the 28-1 station. Restart tivo again. Now it worked as expected and showed the 28-1 station (no errors by the way) I'm not sure what the problem is, but restarting the tivo seems to fix it for a while. My setup is strictly over the air. No cable cards, no ethernet connection. The only thing connected to it is a phone line and an antenna. It is also less than a year old, so I wouldn't be expecting hardware problem this soon in the game. I love my tivo, but just wish it was a little more stable. Sorry forgot to add it is a Tivo HD


I have no idea if your problem was or was not the TiVo, but I just thought I would add this - a couple of days ago I happened to be watching NBC Olympic coverage in the morning on live TV - not TiVo live TV, but real live - TiVo was recording on both tuners, so I had switched to the straight cable input to the TV - and it froze. It was hung up for at least a minute; I finally switched to a different channel, which worked fine, then back to NBC, which was still frozen for another 10 seconds or so. But it soon went back to normal. My point here is that if I had not just happened to be watching the straight cable input instead of the TiVo, I probably would have assumed it was a TiVo problem too.


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## wood252ota

V7Goose,
It sounds like your TV lost sync with the cable picture. Were you watching a HD signal or a SD signal ? If you were changing formats (1080i vs 720p etc) I can see the TV getting confused. The only thing that bugs me is that a restart of the tivo always fixes the problem. I don't think that drops power to the components so the hardware shouldn't know anything happened. But it will restart the software which is where I think the problem is. I don't remember having these problems when I first got the Tivo and had the 9.2 load on it. 9.3 and 9.4 have not been improvements. I would rather have fewer features that are stable, than more features that are not.


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## Ziggy86

wood252ota said:


> V7Goose,
> I would rather have fewer features that are stable, than more features that are not.


+1 :up:


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## bicker

wood252ota said:


> I would rather have fewer features that are stable, than more features that are not.


I think that model would work if a greater percentage of subscribers paid a much heftier monthly fee. Lifetime service, itself, and a model with a higher up-front cost and lower monthly fees, drive TiVo to focus far more on attracting new customers and opening new revenue streams from existing customers (both of which prompt the introduction of new features) than they would if there was no lifetime subscription and the monthly service fee was much higher.


----------



## V7Goose

wood252ota said:


> V7Goose,
> It sounds like your TV lost sync with the cable picture. Were you watching a HD signal or a SD signal ? If you were changing formats (1080i vs 720p etc) I can see the TV getting confused. The only thing that bugs me is that a restart of the tivo always fixes the problem. I don't think that drops power to the components so the hardware shouldn't know anything happened. But it will restart the software which is where I think the problem is. I don't remember having these problems when I first got the Tivo and had the 9.2 load on it. 9.3 and 9.4 have not been improvements. I would rather have fewer features that are stable, than more features that are not.


My point here was that the video freeze I saw on NBC was NOT the TiVo since I wasn't even watching a signal coming through the TiVo. I had been watching the channel for about 30 minutes or so and it just froze in mid sentence. The TV was working fine, as it changed channels OK and the other channels were not frozen, just the NBC broadcast, and it stayed frozen for a minute or so after I changed back to it. Had I been watching it through TiVo, I would have assumed it was probably a TiVo problem, just like most of us here do, but that is not always the case!


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## jrs1968

Is the freeze any more common with certain configurations? 

I have had my HD TiVo for a few days, and hadn't had any problems. Until today. Both tuners were freezing. It started shortly after I had added an OTA antenna, and re-running guided setup to swtich from Cable Only to Cable + OTA.

Is OTA the problem? should I stick with cable and get the cards?

Thanks

I will add that I also have a DVR Expander, which I have had since day one


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## morac

jrs1968 said:


> Is OTA the problem? should I stick with cable and get the cards?


I'm not sure about the HD since I think it has a better tuner, but on the S3 a strong OTA signal can overpower the cable signals and cause problems (pixelation, channel loss, etc) on your cable channels. This can also happen if the cable signals get too low when compared with the OTA signals.

The simplest way to check is to just disconnect the antenna cable and see if your problems go away.


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## jrs1968

morac said:


> I'm not sure about the HD since I think it has a better tuner, but on the S3 a strong OTA signal can overpower the cable signals and cause problems (pixelation, channel loss, etc) on your cable channels. This can also happen if the cable signals get too low when compared with the OTA signals.
> 
> The simplest way to check is to just disconnect the antenna cable and see if your problems go away.


They did go away, at least for now. This isn't cool, I bought this to try to save money rather than spend more on a cable card.

I did a restart, and after it went through the boot cycle it went to a solid gray screen, rather than the intro video (and the remote didn't do anything). I had to power-cycle to get it back to usable with the antenna disconnected. I will try reconnecting it to see what happens.

Thanks,

-jamie


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## danothemano

jrs1968 said:


> They did go away, at least for now. This isn't cool, I bought this to try to save money rather than spend more on a cable card.
> 
> I did a restart, and after it went through the boot cycle it went to a solid gray screen, rather than the intro video (and the remote didn't do anything). I had to power-cycle to get it back to usable with the antenna disconnected. I will try reconnecting it to see what happens.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -jamie


Sorry, I didn't read entire thread (30 pages) and I don't have High Def. (anything) But I know three people who are having freezing problems with TV's that are hooked up to Tivo. My Tivo is an old model, my wifes is a series 2 and my daughter (does not live with us) has an older model (not sure what model it is) but starting about a month or so ago we all three are getting periods where our pictures would freeze. Start up again and then freeze again. If we change channel it will stop. turn back to problem channel and it will start again. Some day's we have no problem at all, some days it last off and on all day.

We all have TimeWarner digital cable southern ca. (no plug in cards).

From reading different posts here it seems we are not alone with this problem but so far I'm not sure where the blame lies, TV, cable, Tivo are what.

Any ideas of what and how to fix this would really be a big help.

Thank you


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## jmpage2

Well, you are in the series 3 forum, where there was an actual software cause with cablecards for the issue, which does appear to be corrected now.

If you are all on the same cable network then a simple thing to check would be to ask neighbors, etc, with regular cable boxes if their picture has been freezing up lately.

If the answer is "yes" then the issue has absolutely nothing to do with Tivo.


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## E94Allen

I have been getting this freezing on my TiVoHD with cablecard lately and it is with the latest update 11.0. Seem it has come back with this update. I am not happy I had to reboot several times since already.


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## sayaaah

I have also been getting video+audio freezes since the 11.0 update.

I currently have 2 identical HD S3s, one several months old and one a little over a year old. Both HDs are configured the same and exhibit the same problem. No cable cards. Analog SD cable connection only. Every few days one of the 2 boxes fails. Freeze can occur when not actively viewing. Will corrupt recordings. Soft reboot will fix, sometimes changing tuners will break it free. 

The 30 minute viewing buffer appears to be frozen in time and locked to a tuner. You can backup in the buffer and replay, but it will freeze when it reaches the end. It's as if no new frames are added to the buffer. If you change tuners, you will get black screens. Flip back and you get the same old buffer. One time, I turned on the TV to find a frozen buffer that contained 30 minutes of a program that aired 5 hours earlier in the day.

I have contacted TiVo many times since early Dec and get the same answer each time - it has been escalated and will get a call back - still waiting.

I don't believe this is the previous freeze problem that was fixed with 9.3a. I had that problem a year ago and TiVo had me swap boxes 2 times until the new software came out and the problem went away.

I am surprised that I have not seen many more posts with this problem. I have been a TiVO customer for 8 years and am now getting concerned that I made a mistake upgrading my old Phillips box.


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## LI-SVT

sayaaah said:


> I have also been getting video+audio freezes since the 11.0 update.
> 
> I currently have 2 identical HD S3s, one several months old and one a little over a year old. Both HDs are configured the same and exhibit the same problem. No cable cards. Analog SD cable connection only. Every few days one of the 2 boxes fails. Freeze can occur when not actively viewing. Will corrupt recordings. Soft reboot will fix, sometimes changing tuners will break it free.
> 
> The 30 minute viewing buffer appears to be frozen in time and locked to a tuner. You can backup in the buffer and replay, but it will freeze when it reaches the end. It's as if no new frames are added to the buffer. If you change tuners, you will get black screens. Flip back and you get the same old buffer. One time, I turned on the TV to find a frozen buffer that contained 30 minutes of a program that aired 5 hours earlier in the day.
> 
> I have contacted TiVo many times since early Dec and get the same answer each time - it has been escalated and will get a call back - still waiting.
> 
> I don't believe this is the previous freeze problem that was fixed with 9.3a. I had that problem a year ago and TiVo had me swap boxes 2 times until the new software came out and the problem went away.
> 
> I am surprised that I have not seen many more posts with this problem. I have been a TiVO customer for 8 years and am now getting concerned that I made a mistake upgrading my old Phillips box.


I have two TiVo HDs configured the same with M cards. One of them is experiencing the freeze issue.


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## lessd

LI-SVT said:


> I have two TiVo HDs configured the same with M cards. One of them is experiencing the freeze issue.


If you have not already tried this reduce the cable signal strength using a two way splitter into the TiVo and see if the freeze problem continues.


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## PanamaPaul

sayaaah said:


> I have also been getting video+audio freezes since the 11.0 update.
> 
> I currently have 2 identical HD S3s, one several months old and one a little over a year old. Both HDs are configured the same and exhibit the same problem. No cable cards. Analog SD cable connection only. Every few days one of the 2 boxes fails. Freeze can occur when not actively viewing. Will corrupt recordings. Soft reboot will fix, sometimes changing tuners will break it free.
> 
> The 30 minute viewing buffer appears to be frozen in time and locked to a tuner. You can backup in the buffer and replay, but it will freeze when it reaches the end. It's as if no new frames are added to the buffer. If you change tuners, you will get black screens. Flip back and you get the same old buffer. One time, I turned on the TV to find a frozen buffer that contained 30 minutes of a program that aired 5 hours earlier in the day.
> 
> I have contacted TiVo many times since early Dec and get the same answer each time - it has been escalated and will get a call back - still waiting.
> 
> I don't believe this is the previous freeze problem that was fixed with 9.3a. I had that problem a year ago and TiVo had me swap boxes 2 times until the new software came out and the problem went away.
> 
> I am surprised that I have not seen many more posts with this problem. I have been a TiVO customer for 8 years and am now getting concerned that I made a mistake upgrading my old Phillips box.


I have a TIVO-HD and am having EXACTLY the same problem you described since the v11 update.

I wish they would hurry up and fix this....it is getting pretty aggravating.


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## Wammer

PanamaPaul said:


> I have a TIVO-HD and am having EXACTLY the same problem you described since the v11 update.
> 
> I wish they would hurry up and fix this....it is getting pretty aggravating.


Add me to the list. Exactly the same thing here. It's been hapening for a few weeks.


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## myblubu

I'm experiencing the same thing with my TivoHD - very annoying!


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## giffer

My TiVo HD has this problem since the v11 update. HD channels have video and audio stutter every few seconds, then video and audio completely freeze up. At this point the TiVo becomes unresponsive to remote commands. SD channels do not exhibit the problem.


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## PanamaPaul

I dont know if anyone else exhibiting these problems has an Expander external drive connected but I went ahead and bit the bullet and backed up all the programs from it over the network to another Tivo and disconnected my WD DVR Expander and have not had the problem since.

If the other guys having this problem have external expanders maybe we can make the assumption that it is a combo of V11 update and an external expander that is causing the problem.

anyone else have Expanders connected? Giffer, myblublu, wammer?


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## giffer

PanamaPaul,
Yes, I have the supported WD expander connected. No problems with this configuration until v11 update. I hesitate to disconnect it and lose my recordings. Hoping for a TiVo fix.


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## PanamaPaul

Well...it appears the issue is DEFINITELY a combination of Expander and ver 11 update....I couldnt bare it anymore so I had to try it and I am having no more freeze ups or issues without expander connected. I was able to back up MOST of what I wanted to another TIVO on the network or my computer so Im good...

Hope they come out with a fix soon then I will connect the expander again and get the capacity back....till then at least watching HD is trouble free again...


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## sayaaah

Maybe there are 2 different video freeze problems. I have never had an expander.


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## PanamaPaul

I think it is more likey an HDD problem and the ver11 update exacerbated it...

For some removing the expander fixes it....for others it is the internal with the problem and you obviously cant disconnect it in the same fashion...

Although I am about to upgrade my internal to 1TB and eliminate the need for the expander altogther...


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## dbthornton

Where are we on this problem? Is Tivo aware it's happening again?
It seems the earlier problem was fixed with a sofware update. Now the ver. 11 update seems to be starting it all over again!

I have all the original symptoms- frozen picture, but all the Tivo functions seem to work. I can usually break the freeze by switching channels, but last night it was completely frozen and would not respond to the remote. I had to pull the plug. This is a THD, no expander, Tivo wireless connector, no cablecards, just OTA and cable.

It seems so far the fewer people are affected this time. I hope it gets fixed soon.


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## sozler

I have been having the same issue for 1-2 weeks now. I have the v11, Motorola M-card, and an expander. In my case, only one tuner freezes, the other is working fine. If it's recording two programs at the same time, one always ends up partial. When I switch channels, it just starts working.

This is pretty annoying


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## HowBoutNowLA

I sounded off in the other thread, but I'm having these freeze problems too. Never ONCE had a problem until the day v11 rolled out last month, now they're saying my drive is fried? Ridiculous. Yes I have an expander, but who cares? This problem is being reported by everyone with every kind of configuration you can imagine. I'm not pulling a trial and error and losing all my programming because CS is trying to give me the runaround and avoid taking responsibility. Sorry, but between the original S3, expander, monthly service I'm out $1500 when I should have just gone with the cable company's DVR in the first place!

Called CS a few times, but there is NO WAY I'm paying them $150 to replace the drive and lose all of my content because this is a bogus tactic by them to avoid a real solution. All you have to do is read up on the 9.4 freezes from last year to realize that a number of people sent the damn thing back to them numerous times and had it replaced numerous times and it STILL didn't fix the issue!!

Incidently - Kickstart 54 and 57 did NOTHING. Don't bother.

Next stop Better Business Bureau and Consumer Affairs. And I feel the need to report to Netflix and cancel my membership with them just for getting in bed with Tivo on this v11 in the first place. But I'll be damned if I'm going to allow Tivo to suggest I shell out ONE DIME for a replacement that I obviously don't need that would severely inconvenience me.

My suggestion? FLOOD CS WITH PHONE CALLS until they stop with the BS and push out a software upgrade to fix the problem. If you're having ANY freeze issues since the v11 upgrade, CALL THEM and make sure they know about it!

Nice to know that people with this problem last year eventually got the new software upgrade and that magically solved the problem immediately (without them having to replace units, drives, spend money, lose programming etc.). Obviously, Tivo needs to push out a software fix to repair the situation. Until then, it would be at the very LEAST a decent move on their part to waive monthly subscription fees for anyone who is having these issues!


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## sozler

Noticed something else: I unfroze the tuner by changing to a different channel and switching back, then it did not respond to remote control commands for a while. Then when I pressed Menu, the background was invisible, still showing the video. I went to the list, I was able to see the cursor, but no item names. After some time, it was back normal though.


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## barrysvee

I've had my HD XL for about two weeks. At first it only froze when tuning a HD channel that was not part of my cable package. Last night I started watching a show from the now playing list that was still being recorded. I paused and after about a minute hit play and it froze. The TiVo would not respond to any remote commands for about two minutes.

Also, I had dumped the terrible Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8300 for the TiVo HD XL. It's interface sucked but it never pixilated HD recordings like this HD XL does. Did I make a mistake in buying this thing?


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## dittocat

I have no technical knowledge about tv or tivo. Have only roof antenna lead to tivo. New Tivo 3 HD worked fine for about 8 months. Now on playback, after about 12 to 15 minutes of playback, the system freezes up. Have let tivo reset itself and the reset is very slow. Have turned off and unplugged and it reset. All this jamming up has happened too many times to count. This is awful. I have a tivo 2 in another room and have no problems. I have had a tivo since its startup. And the first one lasted years with no problems.


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## mmol

HowBoutNowLA and others - I'm having the exact same problems you describe. Started for me right when update 11 was pushed out as well. SD channels work fine and have no problems. HD start to chop up anywhere from 15 seconds to an hour after I start watching them (most times closer to 15 seconds). Have to switch the channel quickly to stop the problem, but sometimes it delays for 30 seconds or more before it does (and everything else with the box - menus and such slow down). Once or twice it has hard frozen if I didn't turn the channel fast enough and I had to reboot.


TIVO Support has been no help. On first call they told me to switch out the cable card and test signal strength. I had Time Warner come out, swap the cable card out, and test the line (it's perfect - not too strong either). I also ran the kickstart 54 diag and everything passed. They hooked up a HD box and it had no problems.

Called TIVO back and waited for 30 minutes after explaining the follow-up. Guy finally said it is a known issue and they are working on it. When I pressed for more details of what the issue was, he backtracked and said "well, it's a little different than yours - and it probably won't fix your problem. You should pay $150 and swap out the out-of-warranty-by-2-months box". I complained and he said they could swap it out for $75.

Am at a loss at what to do. I have the extender drive as well. I haven't tried to boot without it since I don't want to lose all of my stuff. Should I? Is everyone convinced that fixes the problem? Have also tried kickstart 57 but that didn't appear to do anything either. I'm convinced it is not a drive problem.

Anyone? Can we expect a software update soon that will fix this? Do I have no choice but to pay the fee and swap out my box?


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## myblubu

PanamaPaul said:


> I dont know if anyone else exhibiting these problems has an Expander external drive connected but I went ahead and bit the bullet and backed up all the programs from it over the network to another Tivo and disconnected my WD DVR Expander and have not had the problem since.
> 
> If the other guys having this problem have external expanders maybe we can make the assumption that it is a combo of V11 update and an external expander that is causing the problem.
> 
> anyone else have Expanders connected? Giffer, myblublu, wammer?


No expanders on my TivoHD. I don't have any cable cards installed either.


----------



## Luckyp79

I just purchased my Tivo HD on Friday. I was told by two different Charter techs on the phone that I could get my cards at the local office. I walked in and had to fight to get the cards. I now have a tech coming Monday to install the tuner. What a pain.

I was hoping that the freezing was due to not having the tuner installed. But it sounds like it will continue to freeze after the install.

Its Sunday so I have had this since Friday. I have had to reset this unit about ten times. Annoyed with my purchase. I am hoping that the tuner helps my problem. If not I am not sure if I want to return it and forget about it. Then label Tivo as a wast of money.


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## hank12345

Luckyp79 said:


> I just purchased my Tivo HD on Friday. I was told by two different Charter techs on the phone that I could get my cards at the local office. I walked in and had to fight to get the cards. I now have a tech coming Monday to install the tuner. What a pain.
> 
> I was hoping that the freezing was due to not having the tuner installed. But it sounds like it will continue to freeze after the install.
> 
> Its Sunday so I have had this since Friday. I have had to reset this unit about ten times.  Annoyed with my purchase. I am hoping that the tuner helps my problem. If not I am not sure if I want to return it and forget about it. Then label Tivo as a wast of money.


Well, hate to break it to you, but I was fine UNTIL I got a tuning adapter, then I started to get freezes and random reboots, and clear menus, etc...

Unplugging the tuning adapter seems to help fix the problem....

My setup:
Charter Cable, 2 s-cards, 1 expander


----------



## Luckyp79

I was told that the update that came out on the 16th was the one to fix the freezing and that I should try to plug the Tivo into the wall. I also don't have the cable card installed properly so that could be causing the freezing. we will see tomorrow when Charter comes out once again.


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## ejd65

Same story - S3 freezes, usually during playback. Never had a problem with this two year old unit until the Netflix update. CS not particularly helpful, suggested it was the expander. Finally breaking down and disconnecting the expander tonight, can't take any more freeze ups and willing to try. I don't want to think about all the shows I am losing...


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## tomw2

Just to throw my hat in the ring: I have an vanilla HD (no add-ons) and analog cable only. Prior to V11, I experienced no problems..at all. After the V11 update, I've had several freezes -- no audio and sometimes no video (sometimes frozen on a frame), but the menus are always usable. The diagnostics screen shows nothing unusual; re-starting "fixes" the problem. The last time, I did a Channel-Up/-Down and that also restored normal operation.


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## StuartLarkin

"Me too"
That is to say - Mine has started freezing - no channel change or other button press will recover it. It simply reboots after 20 seconds or so. I have 2 cable cards and no idea the software level - I am hoping it simply starts acting right on its own. It has done this the last 3 nights in a row always around 8pm. Last night, was recording 2 shows and watching another. 
If there is a more appropriate thread for me to post this, please let me know.

Thanks
Stuart


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## DFles

My 2 cents worth. I replaced a Series 2 with the Series 3 HD. Series 2 worked flawlessly for a year. Have standard analog cable. Upgraded in November 2008 to Series 3 and started experiencing freezing on live TV even when the TV wasn't on. Tivo menus would work but only grey background. Soft reboot would fix. Called Tivo CS they sent me a new one. This second one has just started doing the same thing. Seems like I have to reboot the tivo about once a week. Frustrating to say the least. Has anyone had this problem fixed yet?!?


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## mmol

Luckyp79 said:


> I was told that the update that came out on the 16th was the one to fix the freezing and that I should try to plug the Tivo into the wall. I also don't have the cable card installed properly so that could be causing the freezing. we will see tomorrow when Charter comes out once again.


There was an update pushed out on the 16th? I haven't gotten it yet. Is there any way to "speed" it up?


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## mmol

mmol said:


> There was an update pushed out on the 16th? I haven't gotten it yet. Is there any way to "speed" it up?


I'm guessing this is an update for some other model than the HD Tivo, right?


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## sozler

Now it's all just an empty blue screen. No remote control, no menus, no video, no audio, just blue... This happened once more last week, then after few hours, it said it is acquiring channel info on top of this blue background, and then I was able to restart it as remote started working at that time.


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## Heghmoh Qib

Can add me to the list (is there a list? there should be a list). I've had a Series 2 for years. Never had a problem. I just got a THD last week. Prior to having cablecards installed, the channel froze twice. Both times I had turned the TV on and it was either black or a still image with the progress bar at the bottom with little to nothing buffered or recorded. I had to restart the THD in order to fix it. The day after I had my cablecards installed (SDV adapter also) and working proper like, I turned the TV on and had the same thing. This time I switched tuners. The other tuner was working fine. I switched back to the frozen one and it started working again. I haven't recorded enough to know if it is affecting them but I'm sure it will.

Oh and that was at least 1 time prior to firmware update (v.9 I believe) and twice following firmware update (v11).


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## scsiguy72

I joined this thread about a year ago when I first got my Tivo HD. Like others my my old series 2 worked perfectly, but my new HD studdered and locked up.

When Tivo came out with the first software fix, it stopped and never happened again

I have been 6 months Plus without a problem


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## passmaster16

I'm having this problem with Comcast analog. I've not even had my HD a month and it's locked up twice on me. Usually I'll notice it when I get home from work and turn the TV on, it's stuck on whatever was on the channel at the time of the freeze. The box is not hard locked though as I can still get to the menus. I tried hitting the live TV button to see if switching to the other tuner would help but all I see is a grey screen. Rebooting the box fixes the problem but the issue is obvious -- having a hung Tivo defeats its purpose as it will not be able to record any scheduled content in this state. Very annoying problem. I am running V11 on my Tivo HD.


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## Luckyp79

I have had my THD for a week now. My CC has only been paired for a day or so. I am freezing only on the analog channels. I can't stress enough that Tivo know about it but they also need everyone with this problem to call in. There might be something that yours is doing that has not been reported yet and that could get fixed as well. 

The fix should be coming soon enough.


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## passmaster16

It just did it to me again. Locked up on Live TV on an analog channel. Could not get any analog cable channels to come up. Digital Clear QAM channels worked fine. Reboot was the only way to clear it. Seems to be something is causing the analog tuner to spaz out.


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## energizerfellow

Just to add a datapoint, I am experiencing the same freeze on a Series3 w/ external drive and Cisco tuning adapter (and HDMI/DVI w/ analog audio due to old HDTV, if that matters). Random channels, both SD and HD, will randomly freeze the video, but the sound chugs along and the Tivo otherwise functioning normally. This seems to happen once every couple of days. I've gotten the 90-second freeze once so far in the 'now playing' list.

I was fine with v11 until I plugged in the Cisco TA.


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## treefq

Just joined the group to add my post. Ever since the fall update my Tivo has been locking up every 2 - 3 days. I just picked up my TA.


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## Hawkeye22

My analog tuners have been freezing video a couple times a week since the last update. Usually switching to a digital channel then back to an analog channel fixes it, otherwise it requires a reboot. Hope they get it fixed soon.


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## myblubu

treefq said:


> Just joined the group to add my post. Ever since the fall update my Tivo has been locking up every 2 - 3 days. I just picked up my TA.


Just curious, whats "TA"???


----------



## windracer

myblubu said:


> Just curious, whats "TA"???


Tuning Adapter.


----------



## myblubu

windracer said:


> Tuning Adapter.


Ok - Thanks!


----------



## dittocat

Took the external storage drive off. Reset everything. Now working 100&#37;. I do miss the extra storage.


----------



## StuartLarkin

dittocat said:


> Took the external storage drive off. Reset everything. Now working 100%. I do miss the extra storage.


I did the same as Dittocat - (but I didn't reset anything) divorced the external WD 500GB drive and no more freezing / reboots so far. I ran the kickstart SMART tests and both the internal and external drives showed good. Someone in another thread reccommended checking the drives on a PC for possibly different result... I would trust the PC test more, have not done it yet. Hopefully the external drive is indeed bad and life can go on!
Yesterday the Tivo kept locking up at the exact same place on the same show and that was the last straw - Possibly the same "bad" spot on the hard drive - or - something really weird about the video content at that point? Anyhow I'm rambling - hope the drive tests bad...

YA!
The External WD500 showed good on SMART test via PC - However - the drive keeps spinning down and back up - over and over during attempts to test it with a HD test utility... Now to see if I can RMA it.


----------



## BenW

Well, I am now sending back my second TivoHD for replacement. Now, after a few weeks of picture freezes and random reboots, it wont get past the "Welcome: Powering Up" screen.

Started getting bad right about the time Netflix came out. And Tivo refuses to accept that it might be a software issue.


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## russ_

I've chimed in on a few similar threads but figured I'd add a "me too" to this one. It seems to have started around 1/13 and resulted in over 65&#37; partial recordings while I was out of town  Since then, I've seen quite a bit of slowness at times, live tv turn to a gray screen and partial recordings (as a result of the gray screen). Thus far, it has only affected HD channels. I called CS and they recommended swapping the cablecard which I'm trying today. 

I have a THD + WD Expander.

Update: The new cablecard did not fix the problem. I also pulled the cable card and observed the same problem on digital channels without it.


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## andyw715

I'm back....

TiVo HD seemed all well with the 9.3 update but since a few (3 or 4) weeks ago. I have been experiencing lock up on live tv (analog). No expander installed, no cable cards)

Very similar to the problem I stated when starting this thread. UGH!!!


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## mzdesigns

My Tivo HD started freezing again about a week ago. Same symptoms others are getting. Partial recordings and turning on TV to a blank screen. Live TV freezing. This is crazy. I have two Tivo HD's, one is working fine and the other is screwing up royally.


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## myblubu

Mine did it again yesterday so I called customer support. (I have no cable cards installed in my Tivo) After a bunch of pointing fingers at other things it might be (cable cards, antenna, etc - of which I have none installed), they suggested to switch out the box or wait for the update, but couldn't give a timeframe on the update. I asked about what if I switch the box and the new one does the same thing? He assured me that it wouldn't (if that's true, and they KNOW that the new box will not have the problem, wouldn't that mean that they know what's causing this????) I was set to do that, until he told me that it was going to cost me $49 to exchange the box. He said my tivo was activated on 12/30/07 so it was out of the 1 year warranty. I asked about an exception being made since the problem started when the machine was within warranty (but my first call was on 1/9/09). He wouldn't budge saying they don't make exceptions even if 1 day past the warranty. Anyone have any success getting the $49 waived???


----------



## cochrasc

This is now the 2nd THD that has started having this issue. The first time it was replaced free because it was within the one year warranty. I'm guessing I'll be charged the $49 since I'm now past the one year on my original, but within one year of the replacement.

Oddly enough, everything was working just fine until last week when I decided to try hooking an antennae up to see what kind of reception I would get. I ran the guided setup to install it, found out it was crappy, then ran the guided setup again to remove it. After that, nothing but constant lockups. Is it just coincidence that it happened right when I did this? Did the update I got during the guided setup just happen to be a new update that is causing this issue?

So frustrating. I've been a tivo customer since the very first model back in...uh...'98 I think, but I'm about to put them on my list of businesses to never purchase from again.


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## bicker

I suspect that the company hasn't changed, but rather the nature of the technology has changed from one for which the necessary components are generally robust to one where the necessary components are generally not as robust. That will bear out over time if we start seeing the same types of problems with other ATSC- and QAM-compatible, CableCARD-capable HD DVRs.


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## r'dog

My Tivo Series 3 has been stalling in the middle of recording, leaving some shows partially recorded. 
i ran kickstart 54, and got a Conveyance Test Failure 7, ran Kickstart 57, and now running 58. after 57 i also re-ran 54 and got the failure 7 again.

we'll see how 58 goes, but based on history, should i continue to diagnose, or you think just get a new hard drive? or something else?

thanks


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## morac

It sounds like the drive is probably going bad. A failure 7, is a seek error, unless you have a Seagate drive which is known to throw up that error erroneously.


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## Heghmoh Qib

Found something interesting about Tivo freezing, needing a reset. I had TW cable guys over last night to check out my problem with random channels going dark at random times. While checking, if the tivo was left on a blank channel, the tivo would "lock up". The Tivo basically needs a kick in the pants to start responding again. You can unplug something (SDV, Coax, External HD). This will get the tivo's attention and will give you control again. You can also leave the guide up to keep it from freezing. Worth trying for this threads issue.


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## dbthornton

dbthornton said:


> Where are we on this problem? Is Tivo aware it's happening again?
> It seems the earlier problem was fixed with a sofware update. Now the ver. 11 update seems to be starting it all over again!
> 
> I have all the original symptoms- frozen picture, but all the Tivo functions seem to work. I can usually break the freeze by switching channels, but last night it was completely frozen and would not respond to the remote. I had to pull the plug. This is a THD, no expander, Tivo wireless connector, no cablecards, just OTA and cable.
> 
> It seems so far the fewer people are affected this time. I hope it gets fixed soon.


So about a week ago, the THD is gray screened. It shows the Welcome screen for a moment then goes to gray.
I pulled the hard drive and it failed the WD quick test. I put a new drive in and it has been working fine ever since. (Knock wood)

Maybe the THD is more sensitive to drive issues?


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## russ_

dbthornton said:


> So about a week ago, the THD is gray screened. It shows the Welcome screen for a moment then goes to gray.
> I pulled the hard drive and it failed the WD quick test. I put a new drive in and it has been working fine ever since. (Knock wood)
> 
> Maybe the THD is more sensitive to drive issues?


That may be, but my calls to Tivo thus far indicate that they know of the problem and are "working on a fix." Of course, I get the typical line stating they don't know when they'll have a solution and it could be a month away.

At the very least, it sure seems unlikely that so many people are having sudden drive failures all around the same time....

I'm curious, when you put your new drive in, did you install the OS by copying the (then) existing drive or did you take some other path? If the latter, perhaps it was that vs. the new drive that eliminated your problems?


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## av8or

I'm writing this as my TiVoHD is rebooting for the sixth time tonight. Same thing every time. I'll be watching a recorded show, the picture will freeze (no audio), and it reboots after a few seconds.

I've owned three TiVos, dating back to 2002, and always been an advocate. The two series 2's never gave me anywhere near the problems I've had with the HD. After months of dealing with Cox cable card problems, I thought all was well. Now this, starting about two weeks ago. Most of my recorded shows are partials.

After spending several hundred dollars on the TiVoHD, lifetime subscription, DVR expander and wireless adapter, I expected better than this.

I couldn't be more disappointed with TiVo right now. This thing is a piece of junk.


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## V7Goose

av8or said:


> I'm writing this as my TiVoHD is rebooting for the sixth time tonight. Same thing every time. I'll be watching a recorded show, the picture will freeze (no audio), and it reboots after a few seconds.
> 
> I've owned three TiVos, dating back to 2002, and always been an advocate. The two series 2's never gave me anywhere near the problems I've had with the HD. After months of dealing with Cox cable card problems, I thought all was well. Now this, starting about two weeks ago. Most of my recorded shows are partials.
> 
> After spending several hundred dollars on the TiVoHD, lifetime subscription, DVR expander and wireless adapter, I expected better than this.
> 
> I couldn't be more disappointed with TiVo right now. This thing is a piece of junk.


I'm sure you have already checked the most common items for these problems, but you might want to re-check a couple. Certainly run Kickstart 57 HDD diagnostics to verify both drives seem good. And re-seat your eSATA cable. We all know those cables have been a weak point for TiVo.

In my case, I have a Series3 with a 1TB external drive that had been working fine for long time. In the past few months I began experiencing an occasional spontaneous reboot (nothing had changed or been moved, or even touched). I ran the drive diagnostics without effect. Finally it went into almost a continuous reboot, so I shut everything off and re-seated both ends the eSATA cable. After that, it started right up and has run fine for about a month.

You might want to just give that a try. I'd even suggest you unplug/plug the cable several times just to make sure no oxidation film has built up on the contacts. Good luck!


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## av8or

V7Goose said:


> I'm sure you have already checked the most common items for these problems, but you might want to re-check a couple. Certainly run Kickstart 57 HDD diagnostics to verify both drives seem good. And re-seat your eSATA cable. We all know those cables have been a weak point for TiVo.
> 
> In my case, I have a Series3 with a 1TB external drive that had been working fine for long time. In the past few months I began experiencing an occasional spontaneous reboot (nothing had changed or been moved, or even touched). I ran the drive diagnostics without effect. Finally it went into almost a continuous reboot, so I shut everything off and re-seated both ends the eSATA cable. After that, it started right up and has run fine for about a month.
> 
> You might want to just give that a try. I'd even suggest you unplug/plug the cable several times just to make sure no oxidation film has built up on the contacts. Good luck!


What's the difference between Kickstart 57 and 54? I tried running Kickstart 54 according to the directions here: http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...elp/DVR_Expander_Troubleshooting_Generic.html. It just locked up when I selected S.M.A.R.T. test. Apparently this is a known problem with TiVoHD (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413445).

I've tried rebooting and reseating the eSATA cable several times. My next step is to divorce the DVR expander, and then replace the hard drive. Have either of these been successful for anybody?


----------



## V7Goose

av8or said:


> What's the difference between Kickstart 57 and 54? I tried running Kickstart 54 according to the directions here: http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...elp/DVR_Expander_Troubleshooting_Generic.html. It just locked up when I selected S.M.A.R.T. test. Apparently this is a known problem with TiVoHD (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413445).
> 
> I've tried rebooting and reseating the eSATA cable several times. My next step is to divorce the DVR expander, and then replace the hard drive. Have either of these been successful for anybody?


AFAIK, 54 gets you the physical testing of the hard drives, where 57 actually has TiVo check it's disk content for errors. I run the 54 tests first, then 57. I don't think I have ever tried to run the S.M.A.R.T tests on my THD, but they work fine on my S3.

I don't really know what 58 does - I used to think it was some type of deeper diagnostics on the disk content, but last couple of times I tried to run it on my S3 I just got a message saying I was receiving a service update, then it would reboot normally.

A bad hard drive is the most common cause of these problems, but bad connections on the eSATA cable simply mimic a bad external drive. Unfortunately, the bad cable can cause errors in the content of programs while they are being recorded on the external drive, so it is possible the problems originally started with a bad cable and now are being caused by the TiVo trying to access corrupt data instead of a failed drive.

If all other efforts to fix the problem have failed, I would first pull both drives and test them with Spinrite - that has a slight chance of finding and fixing physical disk errors and still saving all the content.

If Spinrite reports both drives as good but the problems continue, I would then delete all recordings (you will loose them when you divorce the external drive anyway).

If deleting all recordings doesn't solve the problem, then divorce the external drive and see if it works. Finally, if the problems are still there, I would clear and delete everything as the last step before drop-kicking the infernal thing!


----------



## morac

av8or said:


> What's the difference between Kickstart 57 and 54? I tried running Kickstart 54 according to the directions here: http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport...elp/DVR_Expander_Troubleshooting_Generic.html. It just locked up when I selected S.M.A.R.T. test. Apparently this is a known problem with TiVoHD (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413445).
> 
> I've tried rebooting and reseating the eSATA cable several times. My next step is to divorce the DVR expander, and then replace the hard drive. Have either of these been successful for anybody?


You would want to use Kickstart 54, not 57. The later just verifies that indexes aren't corrupt, but doesn't actually test the drive. You'll have to select the specific drive to test since, as that thread mentions, selecting "Run SMART tests" currently will result in the HD freezing.

The internal drive is "Test /dev/hda". The extender should be "Test /dev/hdb" (though if you get "no drive attached" error, try "Test /dev/hdc").

You might want to test the internal drive first since it's smaller and will finish testing faster. I forgot what the sub-menus under "Test /dev/hdx" look like, but I think the top item will run all tests. If not you'll need to run each test manually one after the other. The "extended test" is the one that takes the longest.


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## sozler

Tests passed for both drives on my THD. Still having freezes and lots of partial recordings (most of them either 0:00 or 0:01).

I simply can't believe this.


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## josiahs dad

I'm a tivo & computer retard so bare with me and thanks in advance for any help. I've got the same lockups as are being reported on this string. I've tried to run the kickstart several times but I can't even get to that diagnostics screen to start it! The dirrections on the TIVO site lack a little for me. Here's what's happening. THe instructions say to hold the pause button until the 4 lights light up... well, that's a problem right off. I only have 3 Green all the way to the left, then yellow and red a few spaces over from that. Also, if I hold the pause button for as long as it takes to see all 3 lights light up, the red light on the remote goes out. Past that, it says to wait until the yellow light comes back on before releasing the pause. It will never some back on holding it for that long. (not to mention that who ever programmed that screen that say's "it will be a few more minutes", used a very liberal use of the term "few". So I started trying to hold the pause button for about 30sec at a time, quickly releasing it and pushing it again so my remote doesn't time out... but that didn't work either. When I've eventually gotten a yellow light, it's only like during normal use (after the "it will be a few more minutes" msg is going away) and then pushing 54 doesn't work. On that note, it just says press 54, so that's all I'm doing... not pushing enter or anything else. Any way you slice it, I'm not getting into the kickstart 54 menu. Any tips? And better yet, tips with aproximate timing & what the screens look like? 
Here's some additional info, I'm using a S3 w/ a WD extender. The settings say its running s/w rev 11.0.01-2-652 and the operating temp seems to be around 45deg. I've also tried a new Sata cable and tried cleaning up the contacts on both units for that cable. Thanx again for any help


----------



## sozler

josiahs dad said:


> THe instructions say to hold the pause button until the 4 lights light up... well, that's a problem right off. I only have 3 Green all the way to the left, then yellow and red a few spaces over from that.


Right after you see 2 lights in addition to the green you have had since TiVo restarted, release pause, press 5 and 4, and never press pause again. Just wait, wait, and wait for a "few" minutes..


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## morac

I find the easiest way to pull off a kickstart 54 is to don't do anything until all the lights on the front panel go out. At that point start holding down pause. After that, when you see the red light light up release pause and quickly press 5 and 4.

I find it easier to use two hands, that way my fingers can already be on the 5 and 4 so I can press it faster.


----------



## dbthornton

russ_ said:


> That may be, but my calls to Tivo thus far indicate that they know of the problem and are "working on a fix." Of course, I get the typical line stating they don't know when they'll have a solution and it could be a month away.
> 
> At the very least, it sure seems unlikely that so many people are having sudden drive failures all around the same time....
> 
> I'm curious, when you put your new drive in, did you install the OS by copying the (then) existing drive or did you take some other path? If the latter, perhaps it was that vs. the new drive that eliminated your problems?


I tried to copy the old drive but it just hung after a short while. I used my backup of the original Tivo drive to copy to the new drive. (Thanks WinMFS!)


----------



## Ralph Wiggum

Add me to the list.

TivoHD has been working perfectly for over a year. I have a WD Extender. About a week ago it started freezing up when watching some recorded programs. Video freezes with no audio and then about 20 seconds later it reboots.


If their support still reads this board from time to time, please fix this ASAP Tivo. I'd expect this out of my old Motorola box, not yours.


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## lob

i've not long visited this site (due to running smooth for 14 months without a single problem.. see other posts in s3 lockup topic)

yup i'm in the same boat..freezing and reboots even still after all KS codes/new drive/new cards/new cables.... etc... after a year of not even a glitch.. boom ... this thing is now a doorstop...

i'm note sure what the usual volume of these complaints is? but based on the volume i'm seeing here...is this common?? is it _possible_ the lastest software 11.x.x ... is buggy?? or is it normal for these amounts of complaints per day on the *same* subject?

if so i think thats absoultely disgraceful... sorry to sound bitter like some others..but i'm sure we all work in some kind of industry... i cant do my job without getting repremanded for a *single* customer complaint... tivo support just blows me off like they dont give a damn... because i've had it 14 months...too bad..get a new one! (i'm guessing based on volume it really doesnt matter) ... but i'm getting really curious as what the ratio of S3 owners vs unhappy owners is?! is the reason this thing is now discontinued because they just got tired of dealing with replacing them? Is the average lifespan of a S3 12-16 months?? like everyone else i've been spreading tivo to my friends like their #1 sales guy (3 friends have purchases in last 4 months)... now i'm really worried i'm about to become the bad guy as their hard earned money is about to go up in smoke..needless to say i'm holding off recommending tivo to one more single person until i hear some better PR ... or get a speck of sympathy from tivo at least..


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## morac

lob said:


> yup i'm in the same boat..freezing and reboots even still after all KS codes/new drive/new cards/new cables.... etc... after a year of not even a glitch.. boom ... this thing is now a doorstop...


That's unusual as normally replacing the drive will get things working (unless the power supply is bad). As for the level of complaints, I'd say it's about normal for a new release, maybe a tiny bit higher.


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## lob

morac said:


> That's unusual as normally replacing the drive will get things working (unless the power supply is bad). As for the level of complaints, I'd say it's about normal for a new release, maybe a tiny bit higher.


No kidding. Talk about your bad luck.. you can imagine how pumped i was to get up and running again with a new HD from weaknees..then how distraught i was 24 hours later when it kept rebooting and freezing. (Note -in defense of weaknees-ive ran diags on their disk and its fine).

However, as ive just reported over on the tivo forums-i am now possibly looking at netflix watch instantly as the culprit. Just a theory of course.. but it didnt even occur to me until today - that my problems began a few days after i had watched my first couple of netflix instantly movies on my S3 (and also attempted a few others but gave up after they froze or got glitchy).

I am now also reallllly kicking myself this didnt occur to me before i streamed a few others from netflix the first night i had the new drive. (Altho apparently no damage was done because the diags come up clean)

Again, it may be a total coincidence the timelines coincide-but i'm now definatley curious as to how many people experiencing problems with their S3 are/have used netflix watch instantly?

The alternative is that i had a bad HD AND a bad power supply literally occur at the same time OR my power supply went bad right after i got a new HD - possible of course but i mean come on- odds wise?


----------



## sozler

lob said:


> Again, it may be a total coincidence the timelines coincide-but i'm now definatley curious as to how many people experiencing problems with their S3 are/have used netflix watch instantly?


I have never watched Netflix on my TiVo, but I'm not able to record any HD shows at all  So, it might really be just a coincidence.


----------



## russ_

lob said:


> Again, it may be a total coincidence the timelines coincide-but i'm now definatley curious as to how many people experiencing problems with their S3 are/have used netflix watch instantly?


I don't know if they are related but the CSR I spoke with asked me if I'd ever used the Netflix feature and confirmed that they have had freezing issues related to it and said they are working on a fix for it that is supposed to roll out with the fix for the other freezing issue.


----------



## serial_port_me05

So - Just got it set up with M card on Friday. Brandy new.

Everything was awesome - Loved playing with it.

Using Netflix - love it.

Then...Last night, in guide it froze. Then watching TV. Froze. All reboots, I hard cycled. 

The question. I got an extra HD Tivo shipped that I was going to return. Is it worth hooking that one up and just returning this one that is freezing? Or is this a larger problem that most people are experiencing that will require a software fix?

Any chance this problem I am having is with the M card, and I should swap that before I go through the trouble of setting up the Tivo?

Does this occur with all HD Tivo's, or has it not been established how or why this happens? Yes, I read the past 30 pages of threads...


----------



## russ_

serial_port_me05 said:


> Then...Last night, in guide it froze. Then watching TV. Froze. All reboots, I hard cycled.
> 
> Or is this a larger problem that most people are experiencing that will require a software fix?


From talking to various CSRs about my problem, it sounds like this is a known issue with the netflix feature that they are working on. I'd suggest calling Tivo just to confirm you're seeing the same problem but it sure sounds like it.



serial_port_me05 said:


> Any chance this problem I am having is with the M card, and I should swap that before I go through the trouble of setting up the Tivo?


I've heard that certain M cards can be problematic but given you were using the netflix functionality and there's a known issue there, I suspect that's more likely. Hopefully a call to Tivo can confirm this.



serial_port_me05 said:


> Does this occur with all HD Tivo's, or has it not been established how or why this happens? Yes, I read the past 30 pages of threads...


As far as I know, that depends on which problem you have. It seems there are any number of reasons this can happen. Personally, mine is doing something similar and I've never used netflix but, according to Tivo, my problem is also part of another known issue. A bad hard drive can also cause your problem as can a bad M card or simply faulty hardware. Though as I mentioned, I'd be suspicious of the netflix bug.


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## routerspecialist

I, too have a Tivo HD that was just fine for months, and of late, loves to reboot. I have tested the hard drive, done the kickstart stuff, and it still freezes, sometimes recording 15 minutes of a show, or 45 minutes of a show.
No dvr expander crap, just a Tivo HD with a tested, good hard disk.

And, It also likes to reboot, restart almost anytime. This started to happen just after the new code upgrade.

This is a bug! that Tivo needs to fix! 

Those who like to point fingers and micromanage an individual Tivo (as in oh, it must be the disk, or maybe it's your cables, etc, etc, etc) need to look at the enormous numbers of people who are having the same problem!

This is a TIVO problem!


----------



## morac

Is it just rebooting randomly? I've found a series of remote presses (the last being left arrow while in the NPL) that will cause my S3 to reboot in 11.0, but it doesn't just do it on it's own.


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## lob

there is no rhyme or reason to my reboots. - like other poster said sometimes 5 mins into a recording - sometimes 45 mins in.. sometimes recording nothing and not even touching the remote and pooof... sometimes it freezes first...then reboots- sometimes just reboots.

personally i am still staying away from netflix instantly just incase thats where the problem lays (since last doing a clear and delete everything/disk diags/ks codes/full guided setup ive been up and running for about 24 hours...longest run without a reboot in awhile) - i'll be keeping away from NWI until i hear otherwise.. 

i'll keep reposting back - if i was brave enough id begin doing things to purposely make it begin rebooting again-but hey--im just too selfish to have my tivo back 

like other poster also said--i am also beginning to think this may have been a s/w issue - based on there seems to be no consitency with setups vs using netflix/sata exapnders etc... altho it doesnt explain why ppl with same version in s/w werent affected at all.. perhaps its an exact combo of things.

yes i agree tivo should be all over this - i got absoultely nowhere with their techs- i'm not sure who these other posters talked to that got communications saying theres "known issues they are working on"- i got nothing like that - or nothing to even make me believe that- they were just convinced my cable cards were bad (even tho theyd been fine for 14 months - and then even after i got new ones AND a new HD)

anyway.. without dissing tivo any further - i'll keep checking back - note this issue is currently spanning 3 or 4 topics but i'm tending to think most of them are related to the same issue.. i'm willing to bet someone onthe forum figures it out before tivo - thats why such forums as these are priceless... i am currently keeping notes of what i'm doing setup and recording wise to see if i can isolate the last thing i did incase it begins again. i havent checked but when was the last s/w update? its also possible i guess a fix gets sneaked in.. does tivo post release notes anywhere?


----------



## lob

routerspecialist said:


> This is a bug! that Tivo needs to fix!
> 
> Those who like to point fingers and micromanage an individual Tivo (as in oh, it must be the disk, or maybe it's your cables, etc, etc, etc) need to look at the enormous numbers of people who are having the same problem!
> 
> This is a TIVO problem!


Amen! :up: PS is anybody else swimming in parts and cables? between my tivos and my pcs - my living room looks like a bomb went off in radio shack right now! (everytime i nicely seal everything back up-im seemingly opening cases all over and switching things out again)


----------



## serial_port_me05

lob said:


> i'll keep reposting back - if i was brave enough id begin doing things to purposely make it begin rebooting again-but hey--im just too selfish to have my tivo back


BE BRAVE! I would be interesting in knowing what happens. I actually got (2) BRAND NEW Tivo HD's set up on Friday. Didn't know about the netflix issue, and used netflix on both. One still works fine, the other is glitchy and freezes and reboots. Interesting - seeing as they both should be doing it. Really weird.

Since I just got cablevision, they are coming to replace the card in the bad unit, lets see what that does.

I certainly would be willing to do a complete erase and do over of this tivo if it worked for you - would like to know what happend.


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## Heghmoh Qib

Just froze or the first time a few weeks. Just happened to be when I was trying to record something. Cablecard 1 went totally blank. Had to pull it out and put it back in.


on a side note. Time Warner Cable is trying to charge me for 2 cablecards even though the tech that installed them said I would only be charged for 1 because the m-cards weren't working very well in Tivo's.


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## Scott Atkinson

My s3 ran fine in my office for a while, and then began freezing up.

Usually it happened on weekends, and I'd find the freeze Monday morning.

Sometimes I could unfreeze by switching channels, but more normally I'd have to reboot.

As a long time Tivo user, I figured I was dealing with a failing hard drive. (I hadn't been on the boards here for quite some time, so didn't know about this thread.)

A call to Tivo "confirmed" that was the problem.

As of today, the unit has been running flawlessly for three weeks, with no change of drives.

I have no idea what, if anything, to do. I can't tell you if I've had an OS update that's cured the problem.

Scott Atkinson
Watertown NY


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## wb182

I have 2 Tivo HD's, both hooked up to dvr expanders, both connected to LCD's, and both using a motorolla m-stream cablecard.

The newer one in the office is working flawlessly.

The older one in the living room (maybe 2 months older), has had constant annoying issues. I've replaced the cable card, despite that being an act of congress through Mediacom due to major freezing issues while recording. Shows literally ground to a halting skipping crawl while watching. Trying to transfer them to the other TiVo gave me an error about the shows being corrupted or something.

Anyhow, new cablecard and the issues were mostly gone, until recently the other day when my LCD told me that it had no signal from the TiVo. I unplugged the HDMI cable, re-plugged it back in, changed it to a newer nicer HDMI cable, changed it to all 3 of the different HDMI ports on the TV, nothing. Verified that my DVD player worked via HDMI for all 3 TV ports and concluded it was definitely the TiVo's fault. A hard reset solved the problem for the night.

Then this morning, more hassles. Lately, in the morning the picture is almost always frozen when I turn the TV on. Changing the channel usually fixes it, but today I hit the TiVo button instead of changing the channel first and it brought the menu up, but not fully loaded. It took like 30s for the Tivo menu and everything continued to move very slow. It ultimately took about 3-4 minutes to actually select a recorded program and start it. But the stagger and freezing continued in the recorded program as well (especially when Fast Forwarding), and I gave up. Now, I *was* transferring shows from the Living Room (the one acting up) to the Office overnight and into the morning, so maybe that was the cause of the freeze/stagger/hiccups, but it shouldn't have been.

Going to give TiVo a call after work and see what their thoughts are on my headaches.


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## Clemenza

Same problems as most: Routine pixelation then freezing on both recording and playback; most followed by an automatic reboot. Loads of partial recordings in the NP list as a result. TivoHD purchased in 2007 with internal drive upgrade to 500GB Seagate DB35 at the time. Comcast Moto M card. Freezing/reboot problems only started after the v11 update. Ran Kickstart 54, 57, 58, with no improvement.

I decided to replace the hard drive since the WD10EVCS is so cheap and I could get it easily from Amazon. It would also double the buffer size to 16MB, which could only help things, and for me, spending $120 on a fix that seems to have helped so many with this problem was well worth it. Yes, I have convinced myself that it's a SW problem, and yes, the previous HD tested fine. But $120 is a small price to pay for removing a very significant variable from the equation (and upgrading to 1TB capacity), especially given all the aggravation this problem has been causing. 

I first used WinMFS to image the 500GB drive and wrote that to the new WD drive. Reboots continued with the new drive. I then deleted the boot file from the drive then re-imaged with the stock Tivo drive image I had saved from the original drive. It booted fine with the stock image, phoned home, and updated to v11 with no problems. Not a single freeze-up or reboot since.

Could it be that when v11 was initially rolled out it could have written to the system or otherwise integrated itself improperly for some people? If so, perhaps re-imaging my 500G drive with the stock pre-v11 image would have solved the problem, too. Or perhaps the new 16MB buffer size in the new WD drive was also a mitigating factor.

To be honest, now that it's fixed, I don't really care. I know that many people have replaced their internal drives yet still suffer from the problem--but that might be because they imaged their current drive rather than a pre-v11 image. Doing the latter is the only thing that solved my problem. If you decide to try this yourself and experiment with imaging your current v11 drive first and it doesn't work, be sure to use WinMFS to delete the boot file before re-imaging with the pre-v11 stock image. I don't know why, but it didn't work for me without that step. I would have thought that re-imaging would simply overwrite the existing bootfile, but for some reason, deleting the bootfile first was key.


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## sozler

By the way, I realized my signal strength was a little bit high (~93) and got it down (~81). No change at all, partials and freezes all over the place.

I now am back to my live TV days, waiting for a show to start and trying to do other stuff during commercials


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## tough joe

This thread has been going for 1 year and now Im the next lucky one to get this problem. TivoHD is 5 months old. It started to freeze on both channels. Yes, restarting the tivo solves the problem, but a faster way for me to fix this has been to change the channel on both tuners. By doing this, the cache on both tuners are cleared and video on both tuners start to play. Im not sure why this is happening, and I cant read 32 pages of this thread to see if the problem has a fix. Can anyone reply to this and let me know? 

Thanks, Joe.


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## HerronScott

tough joe said:


> This thread has been going for 1 year and now Im the next lucky one to get this problem. TivoHD is 5 months old. It started to freeze on both channels. Yes, restarting the tivo solves the problem, but a faster way for me to fix this has been to change the channel on both tuners. By doing this, the cache on both tuners are cleared and video on both tuners start to play. Im not sure why this is happening, and I cant read 32 pages of this thread to see if the problem has a fix. Can anyone reply to this and let me know?
> 
> Thanks, Joe.


My brother just had this happen on his 1 month old THD. Video was frozen on both tuners but changing channels "fixed" it. The ToDo list reported that it did not record a scheduled recording during this time due to video signal being unavailable although there's no evidence that it wasn't since it started recording once he unfroze the video by changing channels on 1 of the tuners. Note this is analog with Comcast as he has not scheduled cableCARD installs yet.

I've had 2 S3 units for 2 years, 1 with cableCARDs and 1 analog only and have not seen this problem at all (also with Comcast).

Scott


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## paully65

This was my situation: 

I bought an external My DVR Expander 500GB drive and had so many problems with the picture freezing and sound going out that I divorced the external drive and the problems went away. 

I never lost audio after that, but the picture would freeze sometimes. Well, I wanted more space and weaknees had a holiday special for their 750GB drive for $50 off so I bought it and replaced the internal drive and have had it in for 2 months and no issues at all! The drive is quiet and the response time on the software is really fast. Love the drive!

I think it really depends on the brand of drive and weakness sells the Seagate DB35 drive. This is the BEST drive I have ever used in a Tivo.


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## Andy D

Add me to the list of folks who have a TiVoHD freezing once or twice per week.

My configuration:

Connected to Analog cable input, no cable cards.
Connected out to composite video. (Video and L/R audio)
Connected to Internet for updates using TiVo Wirelss adapter.

Nothing special, no external drive, just plain vanilla TiVo.

It has been freezing once or twice per week for the last month. I can be just watching a program and all of a sudden the picture just freezes, no audio, no nothing. Usually when I change channels they are just grey, not picture, no sound.

At first I tried a power cycle, and it worked, then I tried a reset from the TiVo menu and that works as well.

The other thread appears to be related to HDMI connection, which mine is not.

Looks like problems like this have been going on since 2007. I&#8217;ve only had my TiVo since early 2008. So far I have not lost any recordings (that I know of). But this is irritating, wish TiVo would just fix it already.

Thanks,

Andy


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## greeneye

I've been having the same problem also. Here are my observations:

First, I have analog cable only, no cablecard(s).

TV will be playing, leave room for a bit, come back and video is frozen.

I change to the other TUNER which is also frozen.

I try changing CHANNELS, get black screen (no signal).

I change to a HD channel (yes without cable card) and bam perfect picture.

I change back to a standard def channel on either tuner and it's still frozen.

I can play recorded shows no problem, but switching back to tuner it's still frozen.

Several times shows haven't been recorded and recording history says "no signal".

Restarting is the only way I've found to get it back.

This has been going on for several months and my Tivo is less than a year old.


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## sozler

I finally decided to give removing external drive a try. And it worked, even though I lost all my recordings. The next reboot without external drive, it was working perfectly. I gave it a day, no partial recordings. Then I added the drive back, and it couldn't even boot properly. The TiVo menu after the boot was pretty slow. Then I removed the drive again and it started working again 

Then I connected the drive to one of my PCs and ran Western Digital diagnostics. No failures at all!!

I don't really know whether I should buy a replacement drive or not. Any similar experiences?


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## morac

sozler said:


> Then I connected the drive to one of my PCs and ran Western Digital diagnostics. No failures at all!!
> 
> I don't really know whether I should buy a replacement drive or not. Any similar experiences?


I've found that TiVos are very temperamental when it comes to external drives. A minor glitch in the drive that doesn't bother a PC can throw the TiVo out of whack until it's restarted.

For example I was having problems with a TiVo that started behaving oddly after hooking up an external drive. Restarting the TiVo would "fix" things for a while, but not for long. The only permanent fix was to remove the drive. The WD diagnostic test indicated the drive was fine (same as with you). The TiVo problems went away after replacing the eSATA cable and power adapter and moving the drive to a slightly different location. I don't know which of those three things "fixed" the problem.


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## lstorey

tough joe said:


> This thread has been going for 1 year and now Im the next lucky one to get this problem. TivoHD is 5 months old. It started to freeze on both channels. Yes, restarting the tivo solves the problem, but a faster way for me to fix this has been to change the channel on both tuners. By doing this, the cache on both tuners are cleared and video on both tuners start to play. Im not sure why this is happening, and I cant read 32 pages of this thread to see if the problem has a fix. Can anyone reply to this and let me know?
> 
> Thanks, Joe.


if it is working for you that is great because it isn't working for me! plus if it freezes when you aren't home and trying to record something it doesn't help with what you have missed


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## shannon94188

Andy D said:


> Add me to the list of folks who have a TiVoHD freezing once or twice per week.
> 
> My configuration:
> 
> Connected to Analog cable input, no cable cards.
> Connected out to composite video. (Video and L/R audio)
> Connected to Internet for updates using TiVo Wirelss adapter.
> 
> Nothing special, no external drive, just plain vanilla TiVo.
> 
> It has been freezing once or twice per week for the last month. I can be just watching a program and all of a sudden the picture just freezes, no audio, no nothing. Usually when I change channels they are just grey, not picture, no sound.
> 
> At first I tried a power cycle, and it worked, then I tried a reset from the TiVo menu and that works as well.


I'm in almost the identical situation as Andy - analog cable, changing channels once the picture gets stuck only results in a grey screen, etc. Using the TiVo wireless adapter. Restarting the box is the only way to get the video signal back.

This is now my *third* TiVo HD box that's doing this. I just returned the last one and received this new one as an exchange a week ago. I missed a recording tonight because of it - recording history says "This program was not recorded because the video signal was unavailable."


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## barbeedoll

shannon94188 said:


> I'm in almost the identical situation as Andy - analog cable, changing channels once the picture gets stuck only results in a grey screen, etc. Using the TiVo wireless adapter. Restarting the box is the only way to get the video signal back.
> 
> This is now my *third* TiVo HD box that's doing this. I just returned the last one and received this new one as an exchange a week ago. I missed a recording tonight because of it - recording history says "This program was not recorded because the video signal was unavailable."


Me, too. This house has 7 TiVos. Six work fine. Have rebooted modum and router.

A six month old System 3 (a refurbished replacement from TiVo) will work fine for awhile, then randomly will show a frozen, bright green screen when I turn it on.

A second System 3 on the shelf above hooked to the same network, electricity, etc., works fine. No external devices.

So, I guess a new hard drive is the only option. Right?

Barbeedoll


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## Hawkeye22

It may be coincidental, but my anaolg tuners only seem to get stuck within 2-3 days after using netflix. I can usually get the tuners working again by switching to a QAM channel or bouncing back and forth between live tv and tivo central or a combination of both, but occasionally I do have to reboot. Once rebooted, it will work almost indefinately until I try watching a netflix movie again.

I should mention that I have no problems with netflix other than the occasional voice out of synch problem, but like I said, it seems highly coincidental that the analog tuners freeze within days of using netflix.


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## Rosso

I finally had to join in this discussion thread. I have also experienced the same problems as many of you with my TiVo HD - 14 months old. The problems showed up about three weeks or so ago. I also have a M-Card CableCard, a 500Gb My DVR Expander, a 1KVA UPS and only experienced the lock-ups on HD channels. I performed every diagnostic procedure I have read on as many threads as possible on this forum. I tried every kickstart, and I attenuated my signal strength from 100&#37; to approx. 80%. No help. I finally divorced the My DVR Expander - this was my last resort because I didn't want to lose my recordings.

That's when it became useless to not give in to TiVo Support. The drive was removed (properly per their procedure), but it said it was removing the drive, and then would reset and end back up at the screen that said "No External Drive Connected". I had to AGAIN tell the TiVo that I wanted to remove it by pressing Clear, thumbs-down three times, and Enter. It did this in an endless loop forever. I finally powered down and reconnected the drive, and it eventually came up with the GSOD and then rebooted constantly. I removed the drive again, and it kept asking me to remove it.

I called TiVo support yesterday, and they said I had done everything right (except they had me remove my CableCard and wireless adapter, too). No luck. I have a replacement unit on the way. I certainly hope this solves the problem - I am at my wit's end.

Rosso


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## buckc

This lock-up issue started before Netflix was ever added, but I think it was a result of one of the software upgrades, as the problem *never* occurred when I bought the Tivo HD back in 1/2008. However, my parents also have the same issue with an HD unit bought in 8/2008. My problem started before that (guess I should have warned them).

My findings:

1) External drives don't seem to be the cause. I have the extender, but my parents do not. Also, neither have Cable Cards.

2) If I keep at least one tuner on a QAM HD channel, it never locks up.

3) If I have both tuners on an SD channel, it will lock up within a day.

4) After a lock-up, tuning BOTH tuners to QAM HD channels unfreezes the Tivo and it works just fine on both SD and HD.

I feel TiVo broke something along the way (shocking, I know) with one of their updates. I keep hoping for a fix, but after all this time, I don't expect it.


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## jwebby

Just for the record, mine does the same thing except video and sound freezes. Just now I changed the channel and it came back but usually you have to reset.

I don't have cable cards or external drives.


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## DeWitt

After being good for a week or so mine locked up twice yesterday.

Really hoping the next software update provides some relief......

I would gladly opt for a software version with less functionality and more stability.


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## mike geier

Ok guys, I had freezing and pixilization problems for months. Had Comcast out to change all splitters, had Tivo on the phone dozens of times, changed cable cards, nothing helped. ran the tests on both main and expansion drives both passed. Then the system started rebooting every 10-15 minutes driving me crazy. Finally in a process of elinination I unplugged the expansion drive and rebooted, (lost all my programs of course), but that solved the problem. Now TIVO runs with no hiccups, does not freeze or break up and does not automatically reboot. I did not have to unplug the tivo and wait for a replacement, thank god for logic, which no one at TIVo, Western Digital or Comcast apparently uses. The solution was to elininate everything one at a time and voila, no more problens


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## bicker

So you're saying that you're happy with your expansion drive sitting idle instead of putting it toward its intended use? Okay. :shrug: I think TiVo and WD (Comcast has nothing to do with this) would be reluctant to suggest this, since it would tend to highlight the fact that there is a distinct lack of robustness in their offering.


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## RoyK

bicker said:


> So you're saying that you're happy with your expansion drive sitting idle instead of putting it toward its intended use? Okay. :shrug: I think TiVo and WD (Comcast has nothing to do with this) would be reluctant to suggest this, since it would tend to highlight the fact that there is a distinct lack of robustness in their offering.


I never thought I'd agree with you about anything much less feel that you've understated.


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## Phantom Gremlin

bicker said:


> it would tend to highlight the fact that there is a distinct lack of robustness in their offering.


This is what p*ss*s me off about TiVo the most. There was probably some high level management edict that said something like: "NO ERROR MESSAGES".

Hard drives have error detection. They *know* when they have uncorrectable errors. SATA interfaces have error detection. They *know* when data didn't transfer correctly.

And yet TiVo thinks it's more appropriate to just crash than to display something like "uncorrectable data error on internal drive" or "uncorrectable error on eSATA interface". There is no excuse for simply crashing and rebooting when encountering a data error.

A-holes!


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## howgil

I also solved my problem by eliminating my WD Tivo expander HD. I returned the drive to WD, and they sent a new one, which I hooked up, and the problems returned. I unhooked the second drive, and again, no problems. It appears that there is a problem with the Tivo software which causes the Tivo to malfunction when connected to the WD Tivo extender.


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## Langree

howgil said:


> I also solved my problem by eliminating my WD Tivo expander HD. I returned the drive to WD, and they sent a new one, which I hooked up, and the problems returned. I unhooked the second drive, and again, no problems. It appears that there is a problem with the Tivo software which causes the Tivo to malfunction when connected to the WD Tivo extender.


Ya, that must be it.


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## djlstewart

External hard drives, cable cards, HD, all have NOTHING to do with this issue. I have the same problem - TiVo HD freezes every couple days. Change the channels on each tuner and it's okay - for a while. If it's recording at the time, nothing is saved, it starts recording from the time that I changed the channel and the picture/sound came back.

I have no cable cards, no external drive, no cable box, just direct connected, analog SD cable. It must be a software issue, and they can't roll it back to a version prior to the problem because they will lose newer features (like YouTube and Netflix) and anger the people who aren't experiencing the problem (if there are any). It is very frustrating though and I would hope at the top priority of TiVo engineering.

My current software version is 11.0b-01-2-652. If anyone's system seems to have stabilized, please let us know what version you have.


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## Langree

djlstewart said:


> and anger the people who aren't experiencing the problem (if there are any).


/Raise

Oh and you left out, it could be an internal drive issue. Also could be a signal strength issue.


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## bkdtv

_I posted the following in another thread, but it's applicable here too..._

The 11.0 software introduced a serious bug that affects those with basic / analog cable. This bug causes the analog tuners to "go out" periodically, resulting in a black (or gray) screen on analog channels. The user must switch to a digital channel (or reboot the TiVo) to regain the picture on analog channels.

Note this issue does *not* affect the digital tuners, so it does *not* affect digital channels from an off-air antenna or cable. When you install a CableCard on most cable systems, you get digital versions the analog channels, thus eliminating potential issues with lost analog tuners.

According to customer service, TiVo is working on an update to eliminate this issue for customers with basic / analog cable, but it's unclear when that will become available.



BWA said:


> So wait, will getting a CableCard help resolve the Analog cable channel problem?
> 
> I just got my TivoHD yesterday, got the service update, and have had grey screen four times already.
> 
> I didn't bother getting a CableCard since I only have "basic" (analog) cable.


On most (not all) cable systems, you get digital versions of the analog channels whenever you install a CableCard. Cable companies refer to this as Analog Digital Simulcast (ADS). Most TivoHD users with CableCards do not have any analog channels, hence do not have a problem with the loss of analog tuners. There's an easy way for a CableCard user to check whether their system has ADS -- tune to a low-numbered channel and check the System Information -> DVR Diagnostics screen. It will tell you whether the channel is analog or digital.

People who experience this problem (loss of analog tuners) on a regular basis tend to be basic cable subscribers, without CableCards, that do the majority of their recording from analog channels, with relatively infrequent recording from QAM and ATSC (OTA) channels.

People with basic cable (without a CableCard) who do a lot of recording from ATSC or QAM channels tend not to see this issue much. That's because tuning to a digital channel restores the analog tuners. If your analog tuners went out mid-day, but your box was scheduled to record a digital channel at 8pm, then that would restore the analog tuners for a [analog] channel at 9pm.

*For existing TivoHD users with basic cable, there is a trick to greatly minimize the loss of analog tuners*. First, disable Suggestions under Settings -> Recording -> TiVo Suggestions. Then create two repeating (daily), one-minute manual recordings on different ATSC or QAM channels (i.e. one on each tuner) at some point before scheduled recordings on analog channels. This is done to put the TiVo's tuners on digital channels, because (a) the analog tuners will never "go out" when the TiVo is tuned to digital channels, and (b) if the analog tuners are out, tuning to a digital channel will restore them. The analog tuners appear to "go out" after they are tuned to an analog channel for 8-12 hours, but if your TiVo is tuned to digital channels most of the time, this rarely happens.

As indicated above, TiVo is still working to eliminate this problem. Once TiVo addresses this issue in a software update -- hopefully in the near future -- such "tricks" will be unnecessary.


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## djlstewart

bkdtv said:


> *For existing TivoHD users with basic cable, there is a trick to greatly minimize the loss of analog tuners*. First, disable Suggestions under Settings -> Recording -> TiVo Suggestions. Then create two repeating (daily), one-minute manual recordings on different ATSC or QAM channels (i.e. one on each tuner) at some point before scheduled recordings on analog channels.


Good suggestion, but if you have analog cable (no digital cable, no cable cards, no cable box), how do you tune to a digital channel?


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## bkdtv

djlstewart said:


> Good suggestion, but if you have analog cable (no digital cable, no cable cards, no cable box), how do you tune to a digital channel?


Virtually every cable provider offers HD locals "in the clear" (unencrypted).

Perform a Channel Scan under Settings -> Channels -> Channel Scan. After you do that, take a look at the channel list under Settings -> Channels -> Channel List. With some providers, the unencrypted local HD channels may appear on numbers like 2-1, 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, etc after a channel scan. With other providers, the local HD channels will be on numbers like 98-2, 104-3, 110-4, etc. It may take some trial and error to find what numbers are used for the HD locals on your cable system. These channels won't have guide data, but you can still add them to your lineup and create manual recordings on them.

Once you've added (checked) two or more of these channels to your lineup, you can create a manual recording on them under Find Programs -> Record by Time or Channel -> Set Up Manual Recording. As a shortcut, simply press '7' from the TiVo menu.


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## DLR

Rosso said:


> I finally had to join in this discussion thread. I have also experienced the same problems as many of you with my TiVo HD - 14 months old. The problems showed up about three weeks or so ago. I also have a M-Card CableCard, a 500Gb My DVR Expander, a 1KVA UPS and only experienced the lock-ups on HD channels. I performed every diagnostic procedure I have read on as many threads as possible on this forum. I tried every kickstart, and I attenuated my signal strength from 100% to approx. 80%. No help. I finally divorced the My DVR Expander - this was my last resort because I didn't want to lose my recordings.
> 
> That's when it became useless to not give in to TiVo Support. The drive was removed (properly per their procedure), but it said it was removing the drive, and then would reset and end back up at the screen that said "No External Drive Connected". I had to AGAIN tell the TiVo that I wanted to remove it by pressing Clear, thumbs-down three times, and Enter. It did this in an endless loop forever. I finally powered down and reconnected the drive, and it eventually came up with the GSOD and then rebooted constantly. I removed the drive again, and it kept asking me to remove it.
> 
> I called TiVo support yesterday, and they said I had done everything right (except they had me remove my CableCard and wireless adapter, too). No luck. I have a replacement unit on the way. I certainly hope this solves the problem - I am at my wit's end.
> 
> Rosso


Have you received the replacement yet? I am in the exact same boat as you and getting ready to make the call. The stupid box is fine as long as it is displaying an SD program (live or recorded) but as soon as I have HD programs on both tuners it starts to stutter and freeze. It doesn't go 10 minutes before it finally freezes up.

BTW, has anyone with a weaknees upgraded internal HD reported this issue???


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## Rosso

> Have you received the replacement yet? I am in the exact same boat as you and getting ready to make the call. The stupid box is fine as long as it is displaying an SD program (live or recorded) but as soon as I have HD programs on both tuners it starts to stutter and freeze. It doesn't go 10 minutes before it finally freezes up.


Yes, I received the replacement, and then IT also had an "issue"- this time with receiving infrared remote signals. I read threads that had to do with that exact same problem. The remote(s) would not work about 95% of the time. I have two TiVo remotes, as well as two all-in-ones. I replaced all batteries in them to eliminate that issue, looked for other infrared sources (remotes, repeaters, etc)., and had the problem with the TV off as well (the amber "received infrared signal LED on the front of the TiVo did not light either). It would work for 5 minutes then quit for hours. It did NOT have the video and lockup problems, however! I could control it 100% reliably with my iPhone using the network remote app. Before anyone asks if I turned off network remote capability to see if THAT was an issue, YES, that made no difference!

Back on the phone with TiVo support - who have all been excellent listeners and very helpful, by the way. They have seen the issue a few times, and the replacement box is now returned and another received. I am away on business now for another week, so the third box is waiting for me to return and try it, while my wife stares at the box it's sitting in, unhappily waiting for me.

DLR  I would call TiVo support and replace the box right away if I were you. I would have tried WeaKnees, but I had to try to replace the unit before I left on business, but that backfired after all with the bad replacement box.
Since I have lifetime (on my HD, as well as a Series 2), next time Ill replace the hard drive myself and make it much bigger as well. Im afraid to reconnect my external drive after what Ive read on this thread.


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## parkds

Add me to the list of people with a freezing TiVoHD. About a month or two ago, my TivoHD began freezing about once a day. The unit will completely lock up, the screen will go black, and the only option is to pull the plug and do a hard restart. I thought maybe the HD was dying so I forked over the money and bought a new Hard Drive from Weaknees. This solved the problem for about 4 days, now it is happening again. I was using 2 single stream cards and now 1 multi and the issue has been occurring in both situations. I apologize for not going through the 20-some pages of posts on this topic, but does this seem inline with other people's issues or is this unique?
Thanks!


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## tomw2

So Weaknees quickly replaced my 6 month old THD with a new unit to address the several-times-a-week picture freezing (only using analog cable). It updated to 11.0b right away....and worked fine for 21 days. Then today it froze....after pixelating a bit. Arg.....

WK recommended I call Tivo....who now want me to call Charter and having them check the signal strength. [Edit to remove comments about signal strength from the "DVR Diagnostics" screen. The CSR had me check, both tuners shows "0"....but he didn't realize that these were both analog. Tuning to a digital channel, shows 100%.]

I will definitely set up a brief, manual recording on a couple of those "digital channels"....and keep my fingers crossed....


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## djlstewart

I set up two one minute manual recordings on digital channels as suggested by bkdtv and have gone five days without a freeze up (which is longer than I was going). I did a channel scan to find some non-encrypted digital channels and set up the two recordings at 7pm, since I typically never have any recordings scheduled before 8pm. Hopefully this kludge will stave off any problems until TiVo issues an update that fixes this problem once and for all. Along those lines, is there a way to tell when the software on the box was last updated other than keeping track of the version numbers?


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## CUfuzzy

I just hooked up my first TiVo last night. HDMI, no external drive, no cable cards (yet), just basic cable.
After running guided setup I watched TV for a bit, then noticed in Video Output Format menu that it was set to 480i fixed. I tried all the various HD output modes and every one had slightly garbled text on the menu. I chose Native anyway, and it caused the TiVo to reboot. Then, every time it got back to the menu, a reboot within a few presses of the arrow keys. I had to quickly switch to live TV and hit Format on the front of the TiVo to get it out of the reboot cycle.

It seems the only formats that work are 480i/p. Any HD formats cause garbled text and the tivo to reboot. I'm using the same 720p TV and HDMI cable that I used with my Comcast DVR without any issues. What gives? Do I need to use component?

I've also noticed certain menus such as the Netflix Instant queue list show some garbled text even when in 480p. Is this normal??

Please help, I'm not impressed with my first "HD" tivo.


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## bicker

Sounds like you got a lemon. Get it replaced.


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## CUfuzzy

Sure enough, same problem over component. Simply won't work in any HD format without rebooting.

I knew there was a reason not to buy this thing online. Ugh, now I have to wait for Amazon refund...


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## CUfuzzy

Hmm, so I called tech support. The person I talked to claimed because I'm currently using analog cable that is what's causing my reboots in any output mode other than 480p/i. Does that make sense to anybody else?

I suppose I'll wait for my cablecards to arrive on monday, but I doubt that will fix anything.


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## desertsilver

CUfuzzy said:


> Hmm, so I called tech support. The person I talked to claimed because I'm currently using analog cable that is what's causing my reboots in any output mode other than 480p/i. Does that make sense to anybody else?
> 
> I suppose I'll wait for my cablecards to arrive on monday, but I doubt that will fix anything.


I don't know about reboots, but I was experiencing freezing before I got my cable cards installed. After I got my cable cards installed, I haven't experiencing any freezing. Hope that gives you some additional comfort.

Before cable cards: froze about 3 times in 4 days
After cable cards: has not froze in 1 week


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## CUfuzzy

Thanks. If it's true that it's rebooting because I'm hooked up to analog cable, that sounds like a pretty big bug to me. CSR wouldn't admit that though. I don't understand why even the Hybrid video modes don't work... only 480p/i.

Even then I get some garbled text in the netflix menu. Yeah, I think I've got a lemon...


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## morac

CUfuzzy said:


> Thanks. If it's true that it's rebooting because I'm hooked up to analog cable, that sounds like a pretty big bug to me. CSR wouldn't admit that though. I don't understand why even the Hybrid video modes don't work... only 480p/i


The TiVo HD is designed to work with analog cable so if it's rebooting it's broken. If the support person told you it's rebooting because you are using analog cable that person is wrong.

Other than trying to display the same resolution as the source when in "native" mode, the source input has nothing to do with the output resolution. You can display analog cable at any resolution.


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## CUfuzzy

Update on my problem:
I bought a new Tivo HD at Bestbuy and it works fine. Returning the lemon to Amazon.

So now that I have a functional Tivo, what's the best video output format to use? Native? 720p fixed? I have a 720p TV, and it seems to handle 1080i just fine.


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## aindik

CUfuzzy said:


> Update on my problem:
> I bought a new Tivo HD at Bestbuy and it works fine. Returning the lemon to Amazon.
> 
> So now that I have a functional Tivo, what's the best video output format to use? Native? 720p fixed? I have a 720p TV, and it seems to handle 1080i just fine.


Recommendations vary.

I prefer to tell the TiVo that I have a 4:3 smart screen TV and then use Native. When you tell the TiVo that you have a 16:9 TV and use Native, it doesn't actually send the raw signal it receives for 480i content. It modifies it and makes it look much worse.

My experience is that the TiVo doesn't do a great job converting one HD resolution to another, so 1080i stuff on 720p Fixed loses a lot of sharpness. It does a fine job converting SD stuff to HD, so 480i stuff on 720p Fixed will look pretty good.


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## morac

aindik said:


> I prefer to tell the TiVo that I have a 4:3 smart screen TV and then use Native. When you tell the TiVo that you have a 16:9 TV and use Native, it doesn't actually send the raw signal it receives for 480i content. It modifies it and makes it look much worse.


This is actually a bug in the 11.0 software and it only happens when you use HDMI with the aspect ratio set to 16x9.

Prior to 11.0, when set to Native the TiVo would send 480i as 480i with an aspect ratio of 4x3. Post 11.0 it still send 480i as 480i, but at a 16x9 aspect ratio. This is the bug part.


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## aindik

morac said:


> Prior to 11.0, when set to Native the TiVo would send 480i as 480i with an aspect ratio of 4x3. Post 11.0 it still send 480i as 480i, but at a 16x9 aspect ratio. This is the bug part.


I've had my TiVoHD since November of 2007, and I don't think you're right about this.

When I first got the TiVoHD was when I realized that it was sending something that, while 480i, was expected by the TiVo to be stretched by the TV into a 16:9 format. If you put it on "panel," you'd get TiVo-inserted black bars on the side, which, if your TV was also set to 4:3 mode, would be there in addition to the TV's black bars.

I used 1080i Fixed for a while, until I decided to check out 4:3 smart screen mode, which gave me the actual 480i signal.

You also get the full 480i signal in 16:9 mode if you use "fill" instead of "panel" on the TiVo, but set your TV to 4:3.


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## morac

aindik said:


> When I first got the TiVoHD was when I realized that it was sending something that, while 480i, was expected by the TiVo to be stretched by the TV into a 16:9 format. If you put it on "panel," you'd get TiVo-inserted black bars on the side, which, if your TV was also set to 4:3 mode, would be there in addition to the TV's black bars.


I can only tell you how my S3 worked since I got it in December 2006 up until it upgraded to the 11.0 software, 480i 4x3 would always display at 480i 4x3. I use the "full" aspect on the TiVo and I got my TV's black bars on the side, not the TiVo's. Also my Sony Bravia TV reported the signal as being 480i 4x3.

After 11.0, now 480i always displays at 16x9 resolution and my TV reports it as 480i 16x9. I "fixed" this by disabling the "auto-wide" feature on my TV and manually setting it to 4x3. My TV still thinks it's a 16x9 signal, I just force it to display at 4x3. This works as long as I don't use the PiP feature of my TV to display the TiVo's input. If I do, the input displays as 16x9.


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## aindik

morac said:


> I can only tell you how my S3 worked since I got it in December 2006 up until it upgraded to the 11.0 software, 480i 4x3 would always display at 480i 4x3. I use the "full" aspect on the TiVo and I got my TV's black bars on the side, not the TiVo's. Also my Sony Bravia TV reported the signal as being 480i 4x3.


If you read the manual, the "full" aspect ratio isn't supposed to be 4:3. It's supposed to be a 16:9 stretch. That's what "full" means. That's why it didn't have the black bars on the side. If you had switched it to panel (which is supposed to be the 4:3 option), you'd have seen two sets of black bars.



morac said:


> After 11.0, now 480i always displays at 16x9 resolution and my TV reports it as 480i 16x9. I "fixed" this by disabling the "auto-wide" feature on my TV and manually setting it to 4x3. My TV still thinks it's a 16x9 signal, I just force it to display at 4x3. This works as long as I don't use the PiP feature of my TV to display the TiVo's input. If I do, the input displays as 16x9.


That's not a bug. It's a fix.

It's sending the same thing it always sent - a picture that it expects the TV to stretch out to 16:9 (which is the same thing a DVD player sends when it plays an anamorphic widescreen DVD). It's just now telling modern TVs to stretch out the signal, which is what it has always wanted the TVs to do. That's not a bug, that's a fix according to how they always implemented native mode for 480i content on 16:9 TVs. If you want the picture unstretched, you're supposed to change the aspect ratio to "panel."

I don't like how they implemented it, because setting the ratio to "panel" means I lose horizontal resolution from the source. So I'm going with 4:3 Smart Screen Native, and I get my 480i stuff in 4:3. I also get the menus in 4:3, which I prefer because the menus at 16:9 have stretched out fonts and icons.


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## goodguy92234

Time for me to join the party and toss out another TiVo quirk. In addition to freezing/rebooting my TiVo is acting strangely on fast forward.

I have a TiVo HD with two cable cards and the expander. A while back (some months?) I noticed that the fast forward started working differently. At the slowest fast forward speed the picture seemed to be at regular speed for a second or two and would then speed up for a second and go back to normal speed, then a short burst of speed and back to regular speed again. Prior to this it used to be a continuous fast forward.

Also, after speeding through commercials at the fastest fast forward speed it jumps back way farther than it used to, and it is difficult to land on the point where I want to start watching. Has anyone else noticed this?

Withing the past two weeks I have started experiencing the dreaded freeze/reboot while watching a recording. I am reluctant to pull the expander after reading that so many others are having the same problem. I powered everything down, disconnected, reconnected and powered up on Saturday night. On Sunday morning TiVo recorded several talk shows, and I played them without touching the fast forward button, and there was no freezing. Then I watched another program that I had recorded Saturday night (after the disconnect/connect) and did a fast forward. Shortly after it froze and rebooted.

I decided to check out a program that I had recorded a long time ago and found that the fast forward on that program looked like it did way back when, and there was no freezing. Evidently, my problem lies in the recording, not the playback. It is curious, though, that I have experienced the weird fast forward for quite a while, and only now started experiencing the freeze/reboot issue.


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## morac

aindik said:


> It's sending the same thing it always sent - a picture that it expects the TV to stretch out to 16:9 (which is the same thing a DVD player sends when it plays an anamorphic widescreen DVD). It's just now telling modern TVs to stretch out the signal, which is what it has always wanted the TVs to do. That's not a bug, that's a fix according to how they always implemented native mode for 480i content on 16:9 TVs. If you want the picture unstretched, you're supposed to change the aspect ratio to "panel."


It is a bug because there's no cable programming recorded in anamorphic wide screen, so when the TiVo tells my TV to stretch the 4x3 to 16x9, it's basically doing the same thing that annoying HD channels that stretch 4x3 programming to fill a 16x9 screen do.

The panel, full, zoom aspect ratio buttons on the TiVo only really work when the TiVo is outputting at 16x9. You can see an example of this by setting the TiVo to 480i/p fixed with the TV aspect ratio set to 16x9. If you do that and then set the TiVo's aspect to panel, you'll end up with a horizontally squashed picture. That's why I use "full" for 4x3 video. 
If I wanted to use the TiVo's aspect button to control the horizontal size, I would set the TiVo's output mode to 720p or 1080i fixed. Native should never display 480i/p at 16x9.

Native mode is supposed to output the same resolution and aspect ratio as the video stream. So if the video stream is a 480i 4x3 program, that's what the TiVo is supposed to output.

As for how I know it's a bug. Well for one thing, it never worked that way and for another thing this only happens when using HDMI. When using component, it works the way it always did back before 11.0.

Basically the 11.0 software caused the TiVo to enable stretch-o-vision on 480i/p channels on wide screen TV's connected via HDMI when set to native output. It's basically same thing as if a DVD player always played DVDs in wide screen whether or not they were actually anamorphic wide screen DVDs.

In any case this has nothing to do with the topic. You can find my original post about this here.


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## aindik

morac said:


> It is a bug because there's no cable programming recorded in anamorphic wide screen, so when the TiVo tells my TV to stretch the 4x3 to 16x9, it's basically doing the same thing that annoying HD channels that stretch 4x3 programming to fill a 16x9 screen do.
> 
> The panel, full, zoom aspect ratio buttons on the TiVo only really work when the TiVo is outputting at 16x9. You can see an example of this by setting the TiVo to 480i/p fixed with the TV aspect ratio set to 16x9. If you do that and then set the TiVo's aspect to panel, you'll end up with a horizontally squashed picture. That's why I use "full" for 4x3 video.
> If I wanted to use the TiVo's aspect button to control the horizontal size, I would set the TiVo's output mode to 720p or 1080i fixed. Native should never display 480i/p at 16x9.
> 
> Native mode is supposed to output the same resolution and aspect ratio as the video stream. So if the video stream is a 480i 4x3 program, that's what the TiVo is supposed to output.
> 
> As for how I know it's a bug. Well for one thing, it never worked that way and for another thing this only happens when using HDMI. When using component, it works the way it always did back before 11.0.
> 
> Basically the 11.0 software caused the TiVo to enable stretch-o-vision on 480i/p channels on wide screen TV's connected via HDMI when set to native output. It's basically same thing as if a DVD player always played DVDs in wide screen whether or not they were actually anamorphic wide screen DVDs.
> 
> In any case this has nothing to do with the topic. You can find my original post about this here.


TiVo made a design choice to send 480i signals in a 16:9 anamorphic format instead of their native 4:3 format for two reasons, a) to enable the user to use TiVo's aspect ratio controls in the way they're designed to be used and b) so that the user sees graphic overlays (the on-screen guide, the progress bar, etc.) in 16:9. Only if you show the signal stretched out in 16:9 does the Aspect button do what it's supposed to do, panel, zoom or stretch as selected. Sending the signal in a 4:3 format would have rendered the Aspect button useless. They didn't want to do that, so they sent it anamorphic.

This has been the format of the signal since at least the 9.x software. I complained about it here when I first got my TiVoHD.

Maybe it only works in HDMI for you because there are two "this is anamorphic" signals, one in the video and one in a digital data stream, and your TV only recognizes a digital "this is anamorphic" signal, which they just added, and doesn't recognize the one in the video, where (I've been told) it has always been. That's just me speculating.

My old TV, the one I was using when I got the TiVo, didn't recognize the signal over either input but people here told me that theirs did.


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## morac

aindik said:


> TiVo made a design choice to send 480i signals in a 16:9 anamorphic format instead of their native 4:3 format for two reasons, a) to enable the user to use TiVo's aspect ratio controls in the way they're designed to be used and b) so that the user sees graphic overlays (the on-screen guide, the progress bar, etc.) in 16:9. Only if you show the signal stretched out in 16:9 does the Aspect button do what it's supposed to do, panel, zoom or stretch as selected. Sending the signal in a 4:3 format would have rendered the Aspect button useless. They didn't want to do that, so they sent it anamorphic.


I've never used the TiVo's aspect button, I've always used my TVs, mainly because the TiVo's aspect button doesn't work correctly when I disable overscan on my TV. If I wanted to use the TiVo's aspect button, I would use 1080i or 720p fixed, which are wide screen formats.

Based on my discussions with TiVo, I'm fairly certain this was not a design decision, but an unintended change. Native is not supposed to be enabling the "this is anamorphic" signal. Who told you this was a "design decision"?

Note, I'm not the only person who noticed this post-11.0. There were a few posts about this. I'm fairly certain my TV can detect the "anamorphic" signal over component as well as HDMI.

In any case I worked around it by disabling the anamorphic signal detection on my TV. The only remaining issue I have is that when I use PiP, my TV displays the TiVo's picture as 16x9, which results in the picture being smaller than it would be if it was displayed correctly at 4x3.


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## tomw2

Update: As directed by Tivo CSR, I called Charter to come out and install attenuators. After some fiddling, and $25, we got the signal meter on the THD to read between 80-93 for all the digital channels I could find. Back to my normal mode of watching (analog....), the THD frozen 3 days later. And then again the next day.

Called Tivo again. This time the CSR said they were not getting lots of calls about this (Thanks, everyone!!!) and were working on fixing it. Let's hope....at least he didn't say, "send in your box for replacement", or "try this......"....

Now I'll be patient (and set up 1 minute recordings on two "digital" channels everyday and hope.....).


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## mmol

I'm still having the issues I listed earlier in this thread. TIVO Support keeps telling me 11.c will fix my issues. Has anyone with a HD Tivo gotten this update yet? I heard they started to push it out but Tivo Support is sketchy on details... although CNet and others have reported the rollout has started.


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## myblubu

buckc said:


> This lock-up issue started before Netflix was ever added, but I think it was a result of one of the software upgrades, as the problem *never* occurred when I bought the Tivo HD back in 1/2008. However, my parents also have the same issue with an HD unit bought in 8/2008. My problem started before that (guess I should have warned them).
> 
> My findings:
> 
> 1) External drives don't seem to be the cause. I have the extender, but my parents do not. Also, neither have Cable Cards.
> 
> 2) If I keep at least one tuner on a QAM HD channel, it never locks up.
> 
> 3) If I have both tuners on an SD channel, it will lock up within a day.
> 
> 4) After a lock-up, tuning BOTH tuners to QAM HD channels unfreezes the Tivo and it works just fine on both SD and HD.
> 
> I feel TiVo broke something along the way (shocking, I know) with one of their updates. I keep hoping for a fix, but after all this time, I don't expect it.


This worked!

My Tivo HD was frozen and I tried this (tuned to 2 different over the air digital chanels) and when I then tuned to a regular cable channel, it worked!

I just have regular basic cable, no cable cards, no external drive, etc.

I called Tech Support and mentioned this to them, they said they are still working on the problem.

Also, I don't know if it is a coincidence or not, but it seems that whenever I get a message stating that there has been a chanel lineup change, it seems that the box will freeze within the next day.


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## mmol

mmol said:


> I'm still having the issues I listed earlier in this thread. TIVO Support keeps telling me 11.c will fix my issues. Has anyone with a HD Tivo gotten this update yet? I heard they started to push it out but Tivo Support is sketchy on details... although CNet and others have reported the rollout has started.


OK, I got the 11.c update and it didn't fix any of my issues. DAMMIT TIVO!
I guess I have no choice to send this stupid thing back, but they want $75 along with it. I started having the problem RIGHT after it went out or warranty.

Sigh.


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## buckc

myblubu said:


> This worked!
> 
> My Tivo HD was frozen and I tried this (tuned to 2 different over the air digital chanels) and when I then tuned to a regular cable channel, it worked!
> 
> I just have regular basic cable, no cable cards, no external drive, etc.
> 
> I called Tech Support and mentioned this to them, they said they are still working on the problem.
> 
> Also, I don't know if it is a coincidence or not, but it seems that whenever I get a message stating that there has been a chanel lineup change, it seems that the box will freeze within the next day.


It's sad that it works, because it's an obvious flaw. I just checked and I have the 11.0c update and I just recovered from a lock-up, so the problem is not solved.

Although unacceptable, the best solution for now is to schedule the short, repeating recordings on an HD channel, insuring that the tuners will not lock up. We should not be forced to do this, but the experienced TiVo owners are used to creating their own work arounds.


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## tough joe

9 moths later and I still have this problem. The problem is not because of an external drive connection since I have no external drive. Its the internal drive as when the freeze occurrs, the drive inside stops spinning (no noise, no spinning sound). I plan on upgrading my drive to a larger one - that should resolve the problem. Though i'll be p*ssed if the upgrade does NOT fix it.


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## blm

My problem turned out to be the hard drive. It gradually got worse and worse until it died completely. The TiVo was still under warranty so I got a replacement (when it was still free!) and it's been fine since then.


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## lysdexia

This freeze problem started happening on our HD tivos starting in December of 2008 with some software upgrade. We purchased two HD tivos with lifetime based on our original series 2 tivo's seven years of flawless performance. It does seem to happen on both HD tivos after getting the message about a channel lineup change. I can tell you this much, if the HD tivo was my first tivo, I would never ever ever have purchased another one they are totally unreliable.


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## BobNYC

My TiVo HD also intermittently completely freezes on me, and I'm unable to do anything other than unplug momentarily and reboot. Sometimes freezes several times in a day, then fine for up to a week; I've had three restarts today. Sometimes restarts on its own, most of the time I have to unplug. Sometimes simply freezes the picture and sound, sometimes the screen goes solid green and the tv starts emitting a loud screeching sound. It all seems very random.

I believe the problem started in Jan 09, but I moved to NYC in November 08 so its hard to tell exactly what started the problem. I have Time Warner in northern Manhattan. Previously I had this TiVoHD (purchased from Weaknees with 500 GB drive) with Cox in Orange County California for about a year and never had any serious problems. But I believe I had trouble free operation in NYC for two months before the problems started, and I believe this coincided with the software update which added Netflix but I'm not completely sure of this.

I say serious because the one problem I did have while in California which continues now to a lesser extent was with the 1x fast forward problems that others have reported - sometimes playing at only regular speed with no sound.

TiVo support has indicated that it is likely a bad drive, but I've run several kickstart tests and have passed them all. I don't want to go through the expense of upgrading the drive only to find I still have the freezing problem.

I had TWC replace my multistream cablecard which made no improvement.

Very frustrating. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


----------



## Traal

I don't know if this is the same problem, but there's one particular recording where I can't play or fast-forward or rewind over the video from 1:02 to 1:05. This occurs right after a bit of video corruption. The video is 1080i.

This is with a brand new 20-hour TivoHD and 11.0d-01-2-652. The software needs to be able to handle corruption of the digital video signal.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Traal said:


> The software needs to be able to handle corruption of the digital video signal.


I've posted plenty of rants about the minor bugs and annoyances in TiVo's software. Overall, I think the fundamental problem may be because TiVo has outsourced a lot of engineering to 3rd world countries where the contractors don't care about quality and where, even if they cared, they can't test the products in real world situations because TiVo doesn't work in that country.

But in this case, perhaps the problem is in the Broadcom SOC that TiVo is using. It's possible that the responsibility for recovering from corruption lies mostly with Broadcom, and TiVo doesn't have much control.


----------



## Traal

Phantom Gremlin said:


> But in this case, perhaps the problem is in the Broadcom SOC that TiVo is using. It's possible that the responsibility for recovering from corruption lies mostly with Broadcom, and TiVo doesn't have much control.


I neglected to mention that when I can't fast forward or rewind, the indicator doesn't move. The TiVo software which controls the indicator should be able to detect that it isn't moving, and do something about it.

TiVo (TiVoPony?), if you're reading this, I can help you test your fix for this issue if you'll push out a test version of the software to my TiVo unit. I still have the recording, but it's taking up 10% of my disk space so contact me soon!


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Traal said:


> TiVo (TiVoPony?), if you're reading this, I can help you test your fix for this issue if you'll push out a test version of the software to my TiVo unit. I still have the recording, but it's taking up 10% of my disk space so contact me soon!


I wouldn't count on anyone from TiVo noticing your problem merely by your posts on this thread. You should PM him or try going through more formal support channels.

Also, depending on exactly what channel you recorded, you may be able to digitally copy from your TiVo to your computer and save those precious bits forever. 

You should also check your signal strength etc. I had similar problems to yours until I added a high quality distribution amp to my cable.


----------



## mrbeefhead

This thread has quieted down quite a bit as of late. Have people stopped experiencing the problem or have they just relegated themselves to consistently rebooting their TiVos? 

I had to reboot mine 5 times yesterday!


----------



## QuasEye

Just thought I'd add another data point here. 

I'm also seeing a variant on the video freeze issue. I have a Tivo HD, but I'm using it in a slightly unorthodox manner. I only have standard (analog / 480i) cable, and am only using the analog S-Video output. (I'm behind the times, I know.) There are a few clear HD channels in the cable feed (just retransmits from over-the-air I believe), but I don't record anything from them. (They are in my channel list, so it could be possible that the unit is trying to record a suggestion from them.) There's also digital cable on the same line that I'm not using - there are no Cable Cards installed. 

Here's what I see. Intermittently, maybe about once a week, I'll turn the TV on and find the picture frozen, no audio. I can switch between tuners, but both have a frozen picture. All other functions are responsive: I can go to the main menu and view the now-playing list. 

If there is any live TV buffered, I can back it up and watch it with no problems. As it approaches the end of the buffer (maybe about 30 seconds before), the picture garbles and pixelates, stutters a few times, then finally freezes. Audio is clear up until the point of freezing. Any programs that were recorded during the locked-up period are just black screens. A reboot clears the problem up until the next time. 

I've never had this happen while actually watching TV, but I may go several days without using it. It may happen more often after I've used it the night before. Sometimes I'll leave a recorded show playing after turning off the TV, but I don't know if that makes a difference.

Here's a list of things that I don't remember offhand, but will check next time I see this and post again:
- Can videos from the Now Playing list be played? (I think they can.)
- Did the freeze happen when there was a change in state of the recorder? I.e., did something just start or stop recording? (I don't think so, the buffer tends to stop in the middle of programs.)
- Can I switch to one of the digital channels and get it to unlock?
- How long was it since I last used it? Did I leave a recording playing the night before?
- Does it keep happening if I take the digital channels off the list? 

Let me know if there's anything else I should check, any logs I should pull or whatever. If there's a TiVo rep around, I can also PM you my service number.

EDIT: I just went to the FAQ and noticed that there was a known issue with all-analog setups. (Sorry, it's been a while since I cruised this forum regularly.) I'll try using the workaround there, and add a couple of short manual recordings off the ATSC channels sometime when I'm not usually recording anything.

EDIT: Ok, adding the ATSC recordings seems to be a viable workaround. I just added two five-minute manual recordings on two different ATSC channels at 5:30AM, and I haven't had a lockup for almost a month.


----------



## mm3ss690

mrbeefhead said:


> This thread has quieted down quite a bit as of late. Have people stopped experiencing the problem or have they just relegated themselves to consistently rebooting their TiVos?
> 
> I had to reboot mine 5 times yesterday!


I still have the problem. Mine is hooked up to analog cable. Live TV freezes up every few days. Sometimes I can switch to the other tuner and that fixes it. But most times I have to reboot it.

I just bought another HD unit for another room a couple of weeks ago. I thought maybe the problem was isolated to my older unit. But today, the new one froze up too and I had to restart it.

I wish Tivo would monitor this thread. If this is just a bug in the software, it needs to be fixed ASAP. This crap has been happening for over a year!


----------



## mrbeefhead

bump for an update?


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## HowBoutNowLA

I didn't want to believe it at first, but it was a dying external hard drive for me. I think it's sketchy that the external started having problems immediately following a software update, and I don't think that's just paranoia and coincidence, but it is what it is.

I had a SeagateFAP750. One thing that's good to know and remember, you CAN try to salvage your saved content before you divorce the drive. Unfortunately I found this out after the fact and lost everything, but it's good to note. The problem with my Seagate was not the drive itself, it was the bridge connector in the base of the unit. The Seagate is not rated to stay on 24/7 and eventually that enclosure will burn out. After I divorced the drive, I took a claw hammer and ripped open the unit (this took forever!). But the drive itself is in a very sturdy and solid enclosure inside so don't be timid, just rip the sucker out of there. Then I took the drive and put it into an Antec enclsure I got at Best Buy that has a built in fan and keeps the drive cooler. Turns out the actual Seagate drive was fine and when I put it into the new enclosure it's been working great with no glitches. So if you have an external drive hooked up and it's freezing and rebooting or the Tivo stops recognizing it, maybe first try to put it into a decent enclosure and see if that works. Then you can keep all your saved content and avoid divorcing the drive.


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## sayaaah

I have same configuration as Quaseye - analog cable only. There are some year or more old threads on this issue. I have 2 series 3 HD units - exactly the same symptoms on both. While working with tivo support for a year, they did admit that about 5% of units seemed to exhibit this problem. I did have one the the units swapped out for a disk problem, but the replacement unit still had the freeze issue. What are the odds? Still sounds like software to me. 

Like many other problems, this one also seems to be tied to strong signal levels.After suffering for a year with the problem, it has gone away after adding attenuators to the cable.

I did find a work-around to avoid re-booting: Switch between tuners, then up-down channel. Switch back. Continue several times. Will usually "break free" of the freeze.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

HowBoutNowLA said:


> Turns out the actual Seagate drive was fine and when I put it into the new enclosure it's been working great with no glitches. So if you have an external drive hooked up and it's freezing and rebooting or the Tivo stops recognizing it, maybe first try to put it into a decent enclosure and see if that works. Then you can keep all your saved content and avoid divorcing the drive.


Very interesting information. It's all anecdotal, but the "official" WD expander may have the same issue: the drive itself is OK, it's the enclosure that goes bad.

I had 2 WD expanders go bad, but they were smaller (500 GB), so I just opted for new internal 1000 GB drives instead of moving the old drives to new enclosures.


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## Hawkeye22

My channel freezing seems to have disappeared since the 11.0g update arrived. Maybe it's a coincidence, but normally I couldn't make it more than 2-3 days before getting an analog tuner stuck.


----------



## TiVoJerry

EDIT: Fortunately I found testers through other means. This recruitment is now closed. Thank you all for your consideration.

**************************
Now that Im in Field Trials I would like to recruit a few people from this thread to help with testing for grey screens on analog channels. We believe weve made progress on this issue but need additional testers to soak and evaluate the potential fixes.

To be clear, Im looking for testers who have seen persistent grey screens (or black, depending on your letterbox color setting) on analog channels of their TiVo HD or TiVo HD XL DVR. The program will involve repetitive testing & close evaluation of video quality, with a strong emphasis on details when it comes to reporting issues. Reading through this thread, I know many of you already have the skills and patience for this kind of activity. 

I am *not looking* for you if;

you are only seeing grey/black screens momentarily (e.g. during channel changes or menu transitions)
you are seeing the looking for signal onscreen messaging (if the majority of you indeed see this messaging, please correct me)
you are using any platform other than the TiVo HD or TiVo HD XL (652 & 658 prefixes respectively)
you are using an unsupported external expander or modified internal hard drive (sorry, but unsupported configurations hamper investigations)
you are seeing grey screens on digital channels
* just because a channel is below 100 does not mean its analog. The quickest way to tell is to tune to the channel and press the Record button. If the screen says Record this showing in Best Quality, its analog. *If it does not mention Best Quality, its a digital channel.*
So, if you fit the criteria above and would like to be considered for testing, please go to <<URL removed>> and create an account. If you already have an account, make sure all data (especially your TSN) are up to date.

*DISCLAIMER:*

There will only be a small window of opportunity to send this info.
Once I have enough testers, I will remove/edit this posting so I dont get more requests in the future. 
I do have a limit on the number of testers I will bring in, so I do not guarantee anyone a place in the testing program.
I do not guarantee anyone a place in the testing program. 
Once youre in the program, you are under NDA and cant post about your participation or experience in the program, even when its over.


----------



## Resist

I would love to be part of this, but the freezing I am experiencing does not bring up a grey screen. My issue just freezes the picture.


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## indiblue73

@TivoJerry - I am having the exact grey screen/freezing issues you described. I signed up on the field testing site but am unable to PM you since I have not posted on this site till now. Would love to participate in your testing if you are still in need of volunteers. Username is indiblue73.

Thanks!


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## TiVoJerry

indiblue73, welcome to TiVoCommunity. I will take your post in lieu of a private message since you are brand new. I'm actually surprised to say that you're my first volunteer. I thought a 35-page thread would have a lot of subscribers, but I guess I should find other threads to post in.

Thank you.


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## Phantom Gremlin

TiVoJerry said:


> I'm actually surprised to say that you're my first volunteer. I thought a 35-page thread would have a lot of subscribers, but I guess I should find other threads to post in.


Arghhh!!!!

Apparently, more people are willing to complain about their TiVo than to help fix the problems.


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## wood252ota

Jerry,
You are talking about analog channels on cable correct ? I had this problem where the screen would be black (I have black background), but the tivo would still be alive. I could change the channel and the tivo would think it did it and show the new program info, but the display would be black. Changing the channel up and down sometimes fixed it. One time when I got in this mode, I could get the HD channels (unscrambled HD versions of our local channels), but all the analogs were black. I put an attenuator on it and it still did it, but not a much. I also thought that it was related to me using TTG to copy a program to my PC. When would the trial be ? I'm busy next week :-(, but would like to be part of it if I have the correct symptoms and right time frame. 
Thanks, Woody


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## TiVoJerry

wood252ota, yes I'm referring to analog channels on cable. There are very few analog antenna stations left, but they would likely be affected as well.

Your symptoms match what I'm looking for, as long as you're using the TiVo HD platform and not the older Series3. Your time frame won't cause any conflicts either. Please sign up now so we can get you on file. I'm looking to enable logs right away to establish a baseline even before I begin.


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## wood252ota

Jerry,
I'm an HD user and I just signed up. Get this, my Tivo was just in that state. The front panel said it was recording two programs. One tuner was ok and recording the program. The other tuner thought it was recording something, but the screen was black. Sorry I had to reboot the Tivo (Idol was on and people wanted to watch it )
One more thing, I did a kmttg yesterday to see how much storage was on the disk. I didn't transfer anything, just got the used size.
Today it hung up, but it doesn't hang right away.


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## innocentfreak

You would think RoyK would have been the first to sign up, but maybe he likes his sig too much.


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## GapGrin

Thought I'd add to the misery loves company. 

As of Sunday, my otherwise reliable TivoHD 652 just started locking up while watching streaming Netflix, and strangely coincodes with an upgrade to 11g as far as I can tell.

The other symptoms are the same general lethargy after rebooting, and delayed or locked attempts to connect through the network. I missed any recordings this week since Sunday as it has not been able to reconnect, although after a reboot last night I got the last 5 minutes automatically of the 2 programs regularly scheduled to be recorded.

More specifically, the wall paper will fail to refresh, so when going to the menu I have a hybrid of a live TV background with the menu text in front. Or, the background isn't all the way filled in (it looks like I'm loading from a 300 baud modem) when advancing through pages on the menus.... 

Unfortunately I'm not eligible for the testing trial as I neither have cable (I'm OTA), nor do I have a clean machine, as I upgraded it to 2 1TB drives, including moving the external one inside, which pretty much DQs me as a major hardware hacker. (However, lest that be rationale for a likely culprit, the programs play back fine when it's not retarding through the menus, and I've been running that configuration without issue for the last several months, so the drives appear fine, it's just the software version that has changed.)

I'm not expecting a magic resolution (but a guy can hope), or here to ***** about it, just sharing my experience to add to the collective brain trust that may help TiVoJerry and others in making things better.

Cheers,
--GG


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## RoyK

innocentfreak said:


> You would think RoyK would have been the first to sign up, but maybe he likes his sig too much.


RoyK almost did. I even went to the website and started to.

But then I decided I'd better discuss it with the principal user -- who is pretty much home bound with TV watching as her main form of entertainment -- and who is the one who has been most impacted by the gray screen issue. She let me know in no uncertain terms what she thought of letting TiVo put experimental software on "HER TIVO!" and risking even more problems than it currently has.

"If TiVo wants to play with *MY* HD to fix *THEIR *problem then they can send me another one to use while they are playing." were more or less her words.

She has a point.

I'd be happy to contribute my 40+ years of engineering experience to beta testing TiVo's software provided they furnish me a box and pay any expenses incurred in getting the box connected/configured, provide service during the beta test, and pay return shipping at the end of the beta program.

Not unreasonable IMO.

=================
Edit: Re my signature - it is simply a statement of fact. And it might just be one of the factors that prompted TiVo to finally address the issue after seventeen months. Nobody will be more pleased to see it changed than I.


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## c_franklin

TiVoJerry said:


> indiblue73, welcome to TiVoCommunity. I will take your post in lieu of a private message since you are brand new. I'm actually surprised to say that you're my first volunteer. I thought a 35-page thread would have a lot of subscribers, but I guess I should find other threads to post in.
> 
> Thank you.


I would participate, but I returned mine to the retailer in April of 09. I wouldn't be surprised if others did the same thing. About the only thing I can do is provide info about that box, but without any clue where it is today that probably isn't much help to you.


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## BigJimOutlaw

I would have gladly participated since I was having the analog issue once or twice a week, until I switched to Fios 3 weeks ago when it became available. It's a frustrating and real problem, but in my case it doesn't apply anymore with the service switch.

This thread would be a pertinent location to seek testers too:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=444679

edit: fixed for clarity


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## morac

BigJimOutlaw said:


> I would gladly participate since I was having the analog issue once or twice a week until I switched to Fios 3 weeks ago when it became available. It's a frustrating and real problem, but in my case the situation just happened to solve itself with the service switch.


Since FIOS doesn't have any analog channels, the problem doesn't affect FIOS users.


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## Alcatraz

innocentfreak said:


> You would think RoyK would have been the first to sign up, but maybe he likes his sig too much.


If you happen to subscribe to threads to follow discussions, you'll get email updates when someone posts. RoyK's nobly-motivated  post today follows one that he posted yesterday at 8:30pm Eastern and then immediately deleted. I believe it comes as no surprise that he loves nothing more than posting (the "sound" of his own voice):

***************
RoyK has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - TiVo HD picture freezes - in the TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs forum of TiVo Community.
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
*I'd be happy to sign up - without the NDA.*
***************

I thought maybe he'd removed the post quickly because he'd realized what it made him sound like, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't say anything. Then he goes and posts a response that makes him sound like he was going to be a part of the solution, but that someone else was to blame for his lack of participation.

RoyK, you should be ashamed. You talk a big talk but then when the opportunity comes, you don't walk the walk. You're full of yourself if you feel that *your *signature had anything to do with prompting Tivo to address the issue. They probably _could _benefit from your experienced participation (no rolling eyes here), but I'm guessing that you'd still push their buttons and be very demanding and obnoxious, if everything you've ever written up til now has been any indication. There are plenty of reasonable people in this thread who are willing to test a fix, myself included, without being so bullheaded. Yes, we all have a problem here....but the rest of us aren't pushing up a tally into everyone's face just for our own amusement.



Phantom Gremlin said:


> Arghhh!!!!
> 
> Apparently, more people are willing to complain about their TiVo than to help fix the problems.


See above.


----------



## RoyK

Alcatraz said:


> If you happen to subscribe to threads to follow discussions, you'll get email updates when someone posts. RoyK's nobly-motivated  post today follows one that he posted yesterday at 8:30pm Eastern and then immediately deleted. I believe it comes as no surprise that he loves nothing more than posting (the "sound" of his own voice):
> 
> ***************
> RoyK has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - TiVo HD picture freezes - in the TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs forum of TiVo Community.
> Here is the message that has just been posted:
> ***************
> *I'd be happy to sign up - without the NDA.*
> ***************
> 
> I thought maybe he'd removed the post quickly because he'd realized what it made him sound like, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn't say anything. Then he goes and posts a response that makes him sound like he was going to be a part of the solution, but that someone else was to blame for his lack of participation.
> 
> RoyK, you should be ashamed. You talk a big talk but then when the opportunity comes, you don't walk the walk. You're full of yourself if you feel that *your *signature had anything to do with prompting Tivo to address the issue. They probably _could _benefit from your experienced participation (no rolling eyes here), but I'm guessing that you'd still push their buttons and be very demanding and obnoxious, if everything you've ever written up til now has been any indication. There are plenty of reasonable people in this thread who are willing to test a fix, myself included, without being so bullheaded. Yes, we all have a problem here....but the rest of us aren't pushing up a tally into everyone's face just for our own amusement.
> 
> See above.


I immediately deleted the post for a simple reason. I changed my mind. That was just before I went to the web site to sign up and before I discussed the issue with my wife.

One of the reasons our marriage has lasted almost 47 years now is that we discuss things that impact each other.

You can make what you wish of the rest of my comment. However I am a customer of TiVo, not an employee. I stated that I'd be willing to volunteer if TiVo is willing to minimize the impact of my doing so.


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## BigJimOutlaw

morac said:


> Since FIOS doesn't have any analog channels, the problem doesn't affect FIOS users.


Correct, which is why I'm not signing up. I was just saying that I was having the issue and would have gladly helped, but switching to fios made me ineligible.


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## Phantom Gremlin

Alcatraz said:


> ***************
> RoyK has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - TiVo HD picture freezes - in the TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs forum of TiVo Community.
> Here is the message that has just been posted:
> ***************
> *I'd be happy to sign up - without the NDA.*
> ***************


I'm kinda with RoyK on this one. The NDA terms seem onerous. You can't *ever* post about your participation or experience. Fortunately I'm now on FiOS, but if I still had the problem, the NDA would make me think twice about participating. Plus I'm so obnoxious in my anti-TiVo rants that I don't want to risk what could happen when TiVo learned my "secret identity".


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## BigJimOutlaw

The rules are pretty standard for beta testing, which is what it essentially is. Everyone can judge their own risk vs. reward. No arm twisting. People can just wait for the final result if they prefer.


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## TiVoJerry

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The rules are pretty standard for beta testing, which is what it essentially is. Everyone can judge their own risk vs. reward. No arm twisting. People can just wait for the final result if they prefer.


To be fair, since I am trying to drum up some help my request could be interpreted as arm twisting







even though that's not the intent.

I am a bit surprised at the low number of responses that I've received so far. I had thought more people would jump at the opportunity to have the problem fixed sooner than everyone else. Hopefully the wait for results won't be delayed by the lack of testers. No pressure.

DISCLAIMER:
I'm hoping the inclusion of an image and icons helps to convey a sense of lightheartedness without detracting from the serious nature of the analog grey screen issue.


----------



## bicker

Evidently the problem isn't as widespread as feared.


----------



## innocentfreak

Of course one of the big issues is not accepting people with upgraded drives. It has become so common especially with only 20 hours of HD recording on the HD model. I completely understand TiVo's position on this and why they have to, but I have a feeling that may be one of the big reasons also.

Then again it could just be a minor problem with a very vocal minority.


----------



## TiVoJerry

innocentfreak said:


> Of course one of the big issues is not accepting people with upgraded drives. It has become so common especially with only 20 hours of HD recording on the HD model. I completely understand TiVo's position on this and why they have to, but I have a feeling that may be one of the big reasons also.
> 
> Then again it could just be a minor problem with a very vocal minority.


Fair enough. How many people here would qualify to test but can't because the DVR is modified or using an unsupported expander?


----------



## sbourgeo

TiVoJerry said:


> Fair enough. How many people here would qualify to test but can't because the DVR is modified or using an unsupported expander?


I would. This problem has been a major thorn in my side for more than a year now.


----------



## orangeboy

TiVoJerry said:


> Fair enough. How many people here would qualify to test but can't because the DVR is modified or using an unsupported expander?


I'm sorry your efforts to fix this problem are being met by unresponsiveness.

RoyK: It seems you've mentioned a neighbor in the past that suffers the same issue that you have with your TiVo HD. Have you informed your neighbor that TiVo is looking for volunteers and that you are unwilling/unable to participate? If you can encourage the neighbor to participate, you could have a much greater chance of a fix being successful for you, since the circumstances (location, provider, etc.) would closely match your own.


----------



## RoyK

orangeboy said:


> I'm sorry your efforts to fix this problem are being met by unresponsiveness.
> 
> RoyK: It seems you've mentioned a neighbor in the past that suffers the same issue that you have with your TiVo HD. Have you informed your neighbor that TiVo is looking for volunteers and that you are unwilling/unable to participate? If you can encourage the neighbor to participate, you could have a much greater chance of a fix being successful for you, since the circumstances (location, provider, etc.) would closely match your own.


I will speak to him but he is "technically challenged" to say the least. He grows a great garden every year though.


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## juliekaye

TiVoJerry said:


> Once done, send me a Private Message on this forum with your username and TSN for consideration.


Can't PM either. I signed up (juliekaye is my username). I'm not sure what is involved in this or how much time will need to be devoted but if you still need volunteers, I'll be glad to try. This problem has been infuriating to say the least.


----------



## RoyK

orangeboy said:


> RoyK: It seems you've mentioned a neighbor in the past that suffers the same issue that you have with your TiVo HD. Have you informed your neighbor that TiVo is looking for volunteers and that you are unwilling/unable to participate? If you can encourage the neighbor to participate, you could have a much greater chance of a fix being successful for you, since the circumstances (location, provider, etc.) would closely match your own.


I caught up with my neighbor last evening. He no longer has his TiVoHD. When his commitment was up he took it to the local e-cycle site and got a DVR from our cable company. He says he's happy with it.

Pity. I'd have given him a few $$ for it and replaced one of my SDH400s (that would have still left me two S2 boxes for recording analog channels).


----------



## TiVoJerry

Fortunately I found testers through other means. This recruitment is now closed. Thank you all for your consideration.


----------



## sbourgeo

Thanks Jerry. Any updates you are able to share would be greatly appreciated. :up:


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## Phantom Gremlin

TiVoJerry said:


> Fortunately I found testers through other means. This recruitment is now closed. Thank you all for your consideration.


As Ross Perot would say: "That's just sad!".

Plenty of *****ing on TiVo Community (and I do more than my fair share), but when it comes to beta testing of bug fixes, TiVo has to find testers "through other means".


----------



## bicker

Yup, we've effectively poisoned the pool. Sad.


----------



## BobCamp1

Phantom Gremlin said:


> As Ross Perot would say: "That's just sad!".
> 
> Plenty of *****ing on TiVo Community (and I do more than my fair share), but when it comes to beta testing of bug fixes, TiVo has to find testers "through other means".


Most of us have modified systems, which (rightfully so) excludes us from beta testing. I wouldn't read more into it than that.


----------



## Langree

BobCamp1 said:


> Most of us have modified systems, which (rightfully so) excludes us from beta testing. I wouldn't read more into it than that.


seriously? That's all you read into it?

Jerry comes in here looking for people to help and he gets called names and jumped on by people who don't understand the whole "there's a time and a place" axiom.

Those that did it are at fault whether they want to admit it or not and owe Jerry an apology.

This community had an oppurtunity to help and a few bad apples messed that up.

Congratulations.


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## innocentfreak

BobCamp1 said:


> Most of us have modified systems, which (rightfully so) excludes us from beta testing. I wouldn't read more into it than that.


You may want to look above where Jerry asked how many people would test but couldnt due to modified systems. Only one person replied.

It definitely makes the forum look more like a bunch of children who only want to complain imho. It also would make me question if I was Tivo if I should really take the complaints seriously when the people affected by the issue pass on a chance to help.


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## sbourgeo

This issue has been a PITA for me for a long time now and I would have participated except for the fact that I have upgraded the drive in my TiVo.

I don't care where the testers come from, I just want a fix.


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## pallor

I've been checking back here every once in a while to see if there was any news on the HD+Analog=GrayScreen problem. I was so happy when I saw TiVoJerry's call for help (on another thread.) 

I went and signed up for field trials, didn't lie on any of my personal info, added all 3 TiVos, and my laptop. Came back here and signed up so that I can post on a forum... only to find I'm too late!

My HD is less than a year old. We got it mostly for the NetFlix. But now that the Wii can do that, and the TiVo really angers the wife when it goes gray while she's watching it... It's not even connected to the TV anymore. 

Having a brand new TiVo with lifetime service collecting dust on a shelf really sucks. 


Pretty please, TiVoJerry? I know I'm late, but, can I test?

If not... any words on how testing is going?


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## TiVoJerry

We are currently rolling out a new version of software to customers but it does not carry the fix as we still want more time to evaluate. So, don't get too excited if you get 11.0h as it only carries support for a new expander (adds screens warning you if you use the USB connection).

I don't want to jinx things, but testing is going well.


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## ManOfSnow

TiVoJerry said:


> We are currently rolling out a new version of software to customers but it does not carry the fix as we still want more time to evaluate. So, don't get too excited if you get 11.0h as it only carries support for a new expander (adds screens warning you if you use the USB connection).
> 
> I don't want to jinx things, but testing is going well.


Quite the shame I ignored my grey screen issues for the past few months and just started looking for a solution today (I guess I was hoping the channels would come back). My analog channels disappeared in April before you looked for testers and to today, I can't watch a single analog channel (everyone is grey) on my TivoHD. Unfortunately, Comcast doesn't simulcast the channels in digital. No Jersey Shore for me!


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## morac

TiVoJerry said:


> So, don't get too excited if you get 11.0h as it only carries support for a new expander (adds screens warning you if you use the USB connection).


Is this the new expander and are you saying it _will_ work with either USB or eSATA or that it will give you a warning that it won't work via USB? If it does work with USB, can you hook up two expanders?


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## duffym

I, for one, would like to thank TivoJerry for his latest post...at least it seems someone at Tivo is working on the problem and maybe a fix _at last_ is near!


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## TiVoJerry

ManOfSnow, if channel changes don't resolve your issue please restart your DVR. If channels don't come back, you may have a different issue.

morac, yes that is the expander. No, it won't work with USB ... the support is just to warn people they can only use eSata. As such, you can still only connect one expander.

duffym, I'm crossing my fingers....but for the first time am feeling optimistic.


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## morac

Thanks for the info.


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## ManOfSnow

TiVoJerry said:


> ManOfSnow, if channel changes don't resolve your issue please restart your DVR. If channels don't come back, you may have a different issue.


Channel changes do nothing. I can put both tuners on digital channels, put both tuners on analog or have one on either. Still grey screen. I can restart the tivo and they don't come back. I called TiVo tech and they said my signal strength of 100 and SNR of 38 (on the digital channels) was too high and I needed an attenuator. The signal strengh of the analog channels is 0.


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## TiVoJerry

ManOfSnow, it seems like you've got something different going on. The issue I am chasing is a persistent grey screen on analog channels only (TiVo HD model only). A signal strength of a constant 100 with SNR above 35 certainly qualifies as being a bit too hot. You might try throwing in a splitter quickly just to see if you can lower the signal a bit.

For consistency sake, I'd like to keep this thread about the one issue I'm working on. It may work better for you to start your own thread for assistance from other members. It would help if you posted your TiVo model, cable provider, and whether or not you have a CableCARD and Tuning Adapter attached.


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## ManOfSnow

TiVoJerry said:


> ManOfSnow, it seems like you've got something different going on. The issue I am chasing is a persistent grey screen on analog channels only (TiVo HD model only). A signal strength of a constant 100 with SNR above 35 certainly qualifies as being a bit too hot. You might try throwing in a splitter quickly just to see if you can lower the signal a bit.
> 
> For consistency sake, I'd like to keep this thread about the one issue I'm working on. It may work better for you to start your own thread for assistance from other members. It would help if you posted your TiVo model, cable provider, and whether or not you have a CableCARD and Tuning Adapter attached.


Not a problem, however I guess I was confused on what issue you were chasing. My issue is a persitent grey screen on analog channels only and I have a TivoHD. I read your post (#1029) and I thought my symptoms lined up almost exactly. When I refered to the digital channels above, I read on the forum that switching both tuners to digital channels would bring back the analog ones. It does not for me. I do have a splitter in the mix.


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## HerronScott

TiVoJerry said:


> ManOfSnow, it seems like you've got something different going on. The issue I am chasing is a persistent grey screen on analog channels only (TiVo HD model only). A signal strength of a constant 100 with SNR above 35 certainly qualifies as being a bit too hot. You might try throwing in a splitter quickly just to see if you can lower the signal a bit.
> 
> For consistency sake, I'd like to keep this thread about the one issue I'm working on. It may work better for you to start your own thread for assistance from other members. It would help if you posted your TiVo model, cable provider, and whether or not you have a CableCARD and Tuning Adapter attached.


TivoJerry,

Thanks for the updates on this. My brother would love to have a fix for this since it has caused him a number of problems. I have 2 original S3's so have never seen the issue.

Scott


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## sbourgeo

TiVoJerry said:


> We are currently rolling out a new version of software to customers but it does not carry the fix as we still want more time to evaluate. So, don't get too excited if you get 11.0h as it only carries support for a new expander (adds screens warning you if you use the USB connection).
> 
> I don't want to jinx things, but testing is going well.


Thanks Jerry.


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## TiVoJerry

Our confidence is now high enough to allow customers early access to beta software that should resolve this particular issue!

If you are still seeing a
(1) persistent grey screen on
(2) ANALOG channels that
(3) can be temporarily (but consistently) fixed with either a channel change or restart, *please call customer support for further troubleshooting.*

You will be escalated to the 2nd level of support for triaging where you'll be given instructions on how to sign up for testing.

* If you do not have this symptom, the new software does not contain anything exciting for you.
* If you have poor signal strength in your home, software will not help you at all.
* This is still considered a "beta" program, so there is still the chance that improvements will need to be made.

We are offering this option in order to provide some relief for you at the earliest opportunity we've had, which will in turn help us confirm our confidence in the resolution. Until now, this problem has proven to be very difficult to resolve but we've finally made the progress that we'd been hoping for. If you are uncomfortable joining an open beta program (we won't be giving you homework ), the software will eventually be rolled out to everyone but we are not close to our currently-scheduled release date.

We know this has been a difficult situation for many of you and hope this opportunity provides some sort of relief.

Thank you,
TiVoJerry


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## sbourgeo

Very happy to hear this Jerry. :up: Is there some sort of keyword or code that we need to give the CSR so the call will be productive and lead to a result other than them recommending that we return our TiVo for RMA? Also, do we need to call in while a gray screen is currently happening (for similar reasons)?


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## TiVoJerry

The agents have been advised to troubleshoot normally and escalate. We need them to do their part to filter out anyone who has a different issue so as not to set false expectations and "pollute" the beta population, so there is no shortcut. The issue does not need to be happening at the time of the call.


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## ManOfSnow

TiVoJerry said:


> If you are still seeing a
> (1) persistent grey screen on
> (2) ANALOG channels that
> (3) can be temporarily (but consistently) fixed with either a channel change or restart, *please call customer support for further troubleshooting.*


Well, I have a persitent grey screen on analog channels, but nothing brings them back. I haven't had these channels since about April. I couldn't get an attenuator but I did get the signal strength down to about 85-90 and SNR around 34 with a few additional splitters. Still nothing. TivoJerry, should I start that new thread now?


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## TiVoJerry

11.0J is now rolling out and should resolve this problem.


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## Andy D

My TiVo HD froze this morning (I know is was this morning not last night as it is a morning news picture that is frozen). I have observed (maybe coincidental) that when I have quite a few recordings I got freezes, don't know for sure, but I deleted quite a bit of content with no change in conditions.

I have been doing quite a bit of troubleshooting..

Reset TiVo HD 3 or 4 times to try to clear.
Completely removed power for 10 seconds or so.
Checked cable signal strength, it seems to be in the high 80 percent range.
Connected directly to cable (via a splitter) with no cable cards.

Here's what's happening

Channel 2 and 3 OK

Channel 4 and 5 frozen

Channel 7, 8 and 9 slow video, no audio

Channel 10 frozen

Channel 11 - 75 OK

Channel 76 Frozen

Thanks,

Andy


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## Andy D

Hate to reply to my own post, but...

About 4 hours after I posted the above My TiVo suddenly started to fire on all cylinders. It appears that everything now works.

The only thing I dislike more than when things break is when they fix themselves.

Thanks,

Andy D


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## NJRonbo

Hello Everyone!

I have a Series 3 HD unit.

Programs started freezing up on 
a regular basis. Thought it was my
hard drive failing after two years and
I just ordered the Tivo Premiere.

Now I am reading that this is a widespread
problem and perhaps it was not the hard
drive failing.

Has Tivo come out with a fix? I have been 
downloading all the updates and as of last
week TV programs still freeze and sometimes
it is impossible to scan over the freeze.

Hope I did not waste money going with the
Premiere model.


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## SandDune

My Series 3 HD also started acting up this week. Thought it was also a failing HD. Switched out the eSATA cable, restarted everything, and unfortunately the problem continues. Hard Drive issue or something else? I'll try running the diagnostics tonight.

Andrew


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## SandDune

Turns out my external drive is failing again. Replaced the Western Digital drive with a Seagate Pipeline drive in an Antec enclosure after the Wester Digital failed. Don't suppose either the eSATA cable or enclosure could be causing the SMART failures? The reason I ask is most of my Wester Digital external drive failures have been the enclosure gone bad, not the drive.

Andrew


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## LI-SVT

SandDune said:


> Turns out my external drive is failing again. Replaced the Western Digital drive with a Seagate Pipeline drive in an Antec enclosure after the Wester Digital failed. Don't suppose either the eSATA cable or enclosure could be causing the SMART failures? The reason I ask is most of my Wester Digital external drive failures have been the enclosure gone bad, not the drive.
> 
> Andrew


I believe those all-in-one external drives often suffer from poor heat management leading to failure. I have had good luck with the Antec MX-1 which is actively cooled.


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## NJRonbo

So, I may be wrong about this and I 
apologize in advance if I am...

These reports of picture freezes have been
going on for 2 years now, at least.

Tivo hasn't issued a fix or recall for these issues.

Meanwhile, customers are being forced to
buy external drives or in my case, a brand
new Tivo.

....and Tivo is not issuing any kind of credit
to customers knowing that a widespread 
problem like this has existed?

I only got 2 years out of my Tivo that I bought
with lifetime subscription service.


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## Phantom Gremlin

LI-SVT said:


> I believe those all-in-one external drives often suffer from poor heat management leading to failure. I have had good luck with the Antec MX-1 which is actively cooled.


Yes, active cooling is much better. *However,* I think the bigger problem is that consumer-grade hard drives are just built like crap nowadays.



NJRonbo said:


> These reports of picture freezes have been
> going on for 2 years now, at least.
> 
> Tivo hasn't issued a fix or recall for these issues.


Tivo sold you a consumer-grade product at a consumer grade price. That's why TiVo's warranty is so short, they're selling you "crap".

Manufacturers simply can't afford to build a quality hard drive and then sell it for under $100. At that price level there just isn't enough money for the myriad of companies in the supply chain to earn decent profits. Every supplier shaves costs wherever they can, at the expense of quality, *"and that's the way it is".*

The bigger problem is there's a sort of Gresham's Law for consumer electronics. It's simply not possible to pay 2x the price and get 2x the quality. Only 0.1% of US consumers would be willing do that. Wal-Mart didn't get to be the largest retailer in the USA by selling quality products, they did it by selling low quality crap at "always low prices".


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## IAMMICK

Yeah mine (tivo Hd) started to freeze on live recordings and playback.

Woke up thursday and my tivo was frozen with no interaction possible on live tv. Had to pull the plug out and then was stuck on "JUST A FEW MINUTES MORE

Looked on this forum and a few others and people were saying that it may have something to to with the usb wifi receiver. So unplugged that and left it off for 15 to 30 secs to apperantly let the hard drive stop spinning. Then Tivo central came on. then plugged wifi in. Sweet all fixed. 

no
After about 30 mins of it trying to record and with me watching live tv it froze again so I repeated the process. and trying to get the Kick starts to do the disk check also by this time and have to say had a little trouble with that as was not catching the timing but would always go back to the tivo central, normal. Left the wifi adapter out for this time. 30 min later froze again.

Thinking now the tivo's hard drive was playing up, each time I restarted I tried to get the Kick start program to start but still little trouble and wouldn't but would go to tivo central. I had upgraded Hdd to 1.5 terabyte, so already had the other one out to swap back in if this **** kept up. 

Still no dice, after a while it would freeze. and again restart and freeze.

Restarted, still trying to catch the kick start. no dice.
When it was up again I did a tivo reconnect thing which took me through setting up the tivo from scratch to do a re-scan and pretty much took an hour to get channels and program list over wifi and said your tivo is ready for use enjoy.

Seemed to be running ok for over an hour with no recording and so went out and recorded olympics. Came home to find it frozen so I checked the recording and pretty much was running ok for about 3.5 hours. But still this freezing and restarting. 

When I restarted this time I finally caught the Kick start Program!!! Yeah finally came up. When to smart scan and it started scanning for errors on the hard drive as it does on Kick start 54. passed first couple of scans then went to the extensive scan which was going to to take over 400 minutes so i thought I could do that before bed bed as I was not watching live tv for the rest of the night.

lasted a 30 mins and froze again

when i restarted again I was an expert at catching the kick start so this time i tried numbers 53 BER test (tivo HD). the one where it checks for errors and cleans up something. after POWERING UP it didn't say A FeW minutes more it said Tivo is performing a software update and waited 10 minutes for the few minutes more then tivo central came on. Maybe NOw all sweet. If not trying the 57 and 58 codes. On weaKnees website. 

Anyway has been running fine with all the recordings and live tv for three days now and fingers crossed it has fixed itself.

Maybe it was all the olympics it has been recording pretty much all the time. My tivo only is compatible with free to air tv in Australia so no cable cards or anything either.

I signed on to this forum to tell my story and thank everyone who has contributed to helping tivo users aroung the world.

I LUV MY TIVO!!!!!!


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## unitron

IAMMICK said:


> Yeah mine (tivo Hd) started to freeze on live recordings and playback.
> 
> Woke up thursday and my tivo was frozen with no interaction possible on live tv. Had to pull the plug out and then was stuck on "JUST A FEW MINUTES MORE
> 
> Looked on this forum and a few others and people were saying that it may have something to to with the usb wifi receiver. So unplugged that and left it off for 15 to 30 secs to apperantly let the hard drive stop spinning. Then Tivo central came on. then plugged wifi in. Sweet all fixed.
> 
> no
> After about 30 mins of it trying to record and with me watching live tv it froze again so I repeated the process. and trying to get the Kick starts to do the disk check also by this time and have to say had a little trouble with that as was not catching the timing but would always go back to the tivo central, normal. Left the wifi adapter out for this time. 30 min later froze again.
> 
> Thinking now the tivo's hard drive was playing up, each time I restarted I tried to get the Kick start program to start but still little trouble and wouldn't but would go to tivo central. I had upgraded Hdd to 1.5 terabyte, so already had the other one out to swap back in if this **** kept up.
> 
> Still no dice, after a while it would freeze. and again restart and freeze.
> 
> Restarted, still trying to catch the kick start. no dice.
> When it was up again I did a tivo reconnect thing which took me through setting up the tivo from scratch to do a re-scan and pretty much took an hour to get channels and program list over wifi and said your tivo is ready for use enjoy.
> 
> Seemed to be running ok for over an hour with no recording and so went out and recorded olympics. Came home to find it frozen so I checked the recording and pretty much was running ok for about 3.5 hours. But still this freezing and restarting.
> 
> When I restarted this time I finally caught the Kick start Program!!! Yeah finally came up. When to smart scan and it started scanning for errors on the hard drive as it does on Kick start 54. passed first couple of scans then went to the extensive scan which was going to to take over 400 minutes so i thought I could do that before bed bed as I was not watching live tv for the rest of the night.
> 
> lasted a 30 mins and froze again
> 
> when i restarted again I was an expert at catching the kick start so this time i tried numbers 53 BER test (tivo HD). the one where it checks for errors and cleans up something. after POWERING UP it didn't say A FeW minutes more it said Tivo is performing a software update and waited 10 minutes for the few minutes more then tivo central came on. Maybe NOw all sweet. If not trying the 57 and 58 codes. On weaKnees website.
> 
> Anyway has been running fine with all the recordings and live tv for three days now and fingers crossed it has fixed itself.
> 
> Maybe it was all the olympics it has been recording pretty much all the time. My tivo only is compatible with free to air tv in Australia so no cable cards or anything either.
> 
> I signed on to this forum to tell my story and thank everyone who has contributed to helping tivo users aroung the world.
> 
> I LUV MY TIVO!!!!!!


Allow me to suggest that you start reading up around here about S3 power supply problems and "capacitor plague", because if it's not part of your problem, it probably soon will be, and it only takes about $10 in parts or less to fix it.


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