# What should TiVo do this year generate consumer interest?



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

DVR unit shipments are projected to surpass 22.6 million units in 2008, up 15% from 19.6 million units in 2007 (In-Stat). Despite that, TiVo added less than 250,000 net customers in 2007.

Why can TiVo do this year to generate more interest in their product?

I will consolidate suggestions made in this thread into two categories, *1st Quarter 2008* and *2nd Half 2008*. Below are a few of my own to get the thread started.

*1st Quarter 2008*


 *Offer TivoHD and Western Digital 500Gb drive in a bundle on Tivo.com.* [ZeoTivo]

 *Phase out 160GB version of TivoHD with mail-in rebate.* [bkdtv]

Drop the price of the TivoHD to $249 at Tivo.com. If necessary, offer a $50-mail in rebate for retail customers.

A standalone DVR with 160GB capacity has no future in a market where satellite DVRs have 320GB or 500GB and free cable company DVRs come standard with 250GB.

Dish Network and DirecTV now use 320GB as standard in their low-end HDTV DVRs, and satellite customers aren't likely to switch to TiVo if it means giving up half (or more) of their recorded space. Dish Network and DirecTV now have 500GB models in the ViP722 and HR21 Pro.

Scientific Atlanta and Motorola both announced new cable company DVRs with 250GB capacity for shipment in 2H 2008, and Echostar said their upcoming [subscription-free] Sling TR-50 dual-tuner OTA HDTV DVR would have at least 250GB.

 *Introduce 320GB TivoHD to replace 160GB TivoHD.* [gcw07, bkdtv, classicsat]

"Now with twice the recording capacity of cable DVRs."

The most common complaint people have about their cable company DVR is the lack of capacity. Most people without past TiVo experience aren't going to spend hundreds of dollars to buy their own DVR for a trivial increase in capacity, but two or three times the capacity is something more can justify.

DVR capacity is very easy to market, so why not take advantage of that? On the box and in advertisements, emphasize 2x capacity of cable company DVR with support for external storage. This should be far more effective than campaigns such as "Tivo gets me" which makes little sense to those that have never used a TiVo.

The TivoHD320 product would be based on the TivoHD design, but with a 320GB internal hard drive. It would be sold at TiVo.com initially, and replace the TivoHD (160) at retail as inventory is exhausted.

 *Availability of premium TiVo model with 500GB* [netsurfer]

*Introduce new TivoHD PRO series with no monthly fees.* [bkdtv]

The PRO series would be sold _exclusively_ at Tivo.com.

All DVRs in the TivoHD PRO series would feature a bundled lifetime subscription, although TiVo should drop all references to "lifetime" and "subscription." The TivoHD PRO would be marketed as a high-definition DVR with no monthly fees. The target price for products in this series would be $599-$699 with cost-savings from direct sale.

The first TivoHD PRO would be based on the TivoHD design, but include a 500GB internal hard drive, TiVo Glo remote, and an *all black* enclosure. Price would be $699, sold _exclusively_ at Tivo.com.

 *Release 9.x maintenance update.* [bkdtv]

This update would address outstanding issues with the current TiVo software, including the (1) "stutter glitch," (2) blackout bug, and (2) sequential recording bug, where two sequential recordings temporarily requires the use of both tuners. If possible, this update should also improve HD MRV performance on the TivoHD.

 *Release Tivo Desktop 2.6.*

TiVo has already announced that TiVo Desktop Plus 2.6, with improved support for web streaming and HDTV->PC Transfers, will be released in March.

More information on TiVo Desktop 2.6 can be found here.

*2nd Half 2008*


 *500GB standard on retail DVR, with availability of 1TB DVR Expander* [ZeoTivo]

 *Improved support for Clear QAM*

Cable companies make it very difficult to obtain a CableCard without $60+ digital service. Many people just want the HD locals -- not the full digital package -- and they can't or won't mount an antenna.

Since Tribune Media Service has no immediate plans to offer program information for QAM channels, TiVo needs provide customers with a simple interface to remap channels on their own.

 *Functional MPEG-4 AVC* (and Amazon Unbox or Netflix HD)

Although this is supported by the TivoHD and Series3 hardware, it is not yet supported by the TiVo software.

 *Eliminate need for a PC to transcode + add streaming playback* [SGR215]

New CE video devices from other manufacturers include direct support for other formats such as DIVX, XVID, and H264. TiVo should do the same, if the hardware allows.

TiVo will never be a true media center until it can support streaming playback of multiple formats from a PC, Mac, and networked attached storage (NAS).

 *Personalization* [SGR215]

TiVo markets their product with the slogan, "TiVo gets me," yet they do not provide any means to personalize or customize the look of the product. Add the ability to choose one's own background -- such as a family photo -- for Now Playing and TiVo menu. Might also add multiple sound themes.

 *Phase out TivoHD320 with mail-in rebate.* [bkdtv]

Drop the price of the TivoHD320 to $299 at Tivo.com. If necessary, offer a mail in rebate for retail customers.

*Introduce TivoHD 2WAY500 @ $399* [bkdtv]

Could release 320Gb version @ $249-$299 once inventories of TivoHD are exhausted.

This product would feature:

 Bidirectional OpenCable receiver that supports SDV, PPV, and VOD using OCAP.

 Faster CPU

The BCM7401 CPU in the TivoHD runs at 300MHz with a claimed 450 DMIPS.

TiVo should incorporate a significantly faster CPU, such as Broadcom BCM7400B or a cable version of the newly announced BCM7335. The Broadcom BCM7400B runs at 350MHz with a claimed 1000 DMIPS while the newly announced BCM7335 runs at 450MHz with a claimed 950 DMIPS. A VIXS XCode-3290 @ 400MHz might be another alternative.

These Broadcom solutions also feature improved memory controllers and SATA controllers.

 500Gb hard drive -- twice the capacity of the 250Gb cable company DVRs

 Robust tuners with 1GHz

Several cable companies, including Cox, are upgrading their systems to support 1GHz and intend to use QAM channels >135 in 2009. All new Motorola and SA STBS and DVRs are announced to have 1GHz support. This is obviously a requirement for any next-generation TiVo product.

 MoCA

MoCA provides 100+Mbps usable throughput over the existing coax in a customer's home, eliminating the need to use wireless adapters and ethernet connections.

For Internet connectivity, TiVo could offer a small MoCA adapter / bridge that users would connect to a LAN port on their router (ex: Motorola NIM100). Alternatively, customers could use the standard 100Mbps ethernet port or the existing Tivo USB wireless adapter for Internet and PC connectivity.

 Streamed MRV

Implement buffered, streamed MRV between TivoHD PRO DVRs to allow remote viewing of copy-protected recordings. MoCA would ensure a reliable, high performance connection between TivoHD PRO DVRs.

The "old" method of MRV could still be supported for backward compatibility with Series3 and TivoHD DVRs.

 New TiVo program guide with inline video window

For wider appeal, TiVo *must* have a better guide. Dish Network, DirecTV, Verizon FiOS, and Comcast (with TiVo) are putting a lot of effort into improving the look of their guide. To appeal to customers with those DVRs, TiVo must have a guide with an equal or better aesthetic.

TiVo should leverage its work on the Comcast software, if contractually permitted.


Click image for more Comcast TiVo screens taken by Steve Garfield.

Customers upgrading to a TivoHD 2WAY from a Motorola DVR with the Comcast TiVo software will expect to have a comparable or better guide. The failure to meet that standard will result in returns.

_If a video window is added to the menus, I want the option to disable it for liveTV on recordings in progress. Just display a black window that says "This program is currently recording. Select it from Now Playing."_

 16:9 program guide

The TiVo Series3 uses a 4:3 guide. For its menus, the Series3 stretches a 4:3 SD UI across a 16:9 HD background image.

The Dish Network HDTV DVRs already have a 16:9 program guide with more program information and DirecTV plans to add that feature in 2008. The upcoming Sling (Echostar) TR-50 dual-tuner OTA HDTV DVR is also expected to feature the 16:9 guide shown below:










TiVo should create a separate 16:9 version of the guide to provide more guide information on the screen. For the menus, TiVo should stick to the center 4:3 portion of the screen for backward compatibility with older TVs, but it should use high-resolution graphics and text in that 4:3 portion.

 ViXS XCode 3122/3111 (or a variant)

In addition to the OpenCable receiver and dual encoders, this would provide downconversion of copy-protected HD channels for TiVoToGo. If streaming cannot be implemented for MRV, then it would also downconvert copy-protected HD transfers to 960x540 for MRV, as required by the CableLabs DFAST licensing agreement.

In the future, TiVo could implement remote viewing via the web / network in H.264 SD.

 All black exterior

The top selling displays and receivers at retail are all 100% black. Black versions of receivers now outsell silver versions at a ratio of more than 4:1 at retail.

The latest Dish Network, DirecTV, and Motorola DVRs are all 100% black.

 *Introduce TivoHD 2WAY500 PRO @ $699.*

The PRO series would be sold _exclusively_ at Tivo.com. Same as the TivoHD 2WAY500, except with no subscription needed.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

I really wonder if the future of TiVo isn't the ComcasTiVo/PseudOcap software - even for the SA devices, especially once they're two-way.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

My list is much simpler

*1st quarter 2008*
bundle Tivo HD and 500Gig DVR expander for 400$

Desktop 2.6 for better archiving by folder on PC

*second half 2008*
500Gig internal drive standard
1 TB DVR expander

release update that allows for mpeg4

relase streaming from NetFlix feature using just TiVo

HD from UNBOX, close captioning

CES 2009
show off Series 4 TiVo with tru2way that can do PPV/VOD
this will be ready for standalone release in early 2009 and also start being released as software to companies that have licensed with TiVo

profit


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## usnret (Nov 25, 2003)

How about a Tivo HD with basic service, like the Toshiba SD-400 had. JMTCW


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## netsurfer (Jan 16, 2008)

I get the feeling that for many people, the hard drive sizes that Tivo ships with are just not big enough. If people could get a box that they can be happy with without having to worry about upgrading to more storage, I think that would go a long way towards helping sales. 

The price point for a retail drive at 250 GB is about $60.
But for just about $90 they could up that to 500 GB.

Those are retail prices. Tivo could get wholesale prices.

That is the biggest improvement I can think of right now.


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## gcw07 (Oct 30, 2007)

For me, the biggest improvements would be to increase the hard drive space and to release the SDV dongle. Really I can't see why they couldn't increase the HD space to 320GB and keep the price at $299 or less.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Right now a three year pre-pay subscription costs $299. So if you add that onto the 320GB/$399 version you propose that's $699. So why would you think that a 500GB version with with lifetime built in would be feasible at $699? I would agree that a version that defuses the monthly fee concerns would be helpful but the price point would probably have to come in higher.

I don't care about the grid guide much since I don't use it, but if they start doing PIG they need to have the option of turning it off.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

nrc said:


> Right now a three year pre-pay subscription costs $299. So if you add that onto the 320GB/$399 version you propose that's $699. So why would you think that a 500GB version with with lifetime built in would be feasible at $699? I would agree that a version that defuses the monthly fee concerns would be helpful but the price point would probably have to come in higher.


You may be right. I originally had the "PRO" version at 320GB for $699, but then I figured, what makes it a "PRO" ? They've got to maintain the sub-$700 price because market research shows that demand falls off significantly once you exceed that amount.

You' do need to remember that TiVo takes a significant hit at retail. When the TivoHD was introduced last July, retailers like Best Buy and Circuit City were only paying less than $220 per unit. They may be paying even less now. I'm assuming the retail cut would be even higher on a $399 product. That is money out of TiVo's pocket.

I've factored the savings from direct sales into the price. That's why I emphasized the "PRO" was for direct sales only, because the price would need to be considerably higher if sold at retail.

I also think it is in Tivo's best interest to make as much money off the old design as they can, because it will be essentially obsolete when the bidirectional version is released with direct support for VOD. Many with a TivoHD will use it for a year and then replace it with the new model to get VOD. TiVo doesn't make money with that kind of turnover, unless they get more money upfront.



gcw07 said:


> For me, the biggest improvements would be to increase the hard drive space and to release the SDV dongle. Really I can't see why they couldn't increase the HD space to 320GB and keep the price at $299 or less.


The only problem with that is the existing inventory. If you release a TivoHD product at 320Gb for $299, what happens to the inventory of the older 160Gb product?

Once inventory of the 160Gb version is exhausted, I agree they should lower the price. Of course, price drops can frustrate retailers and prior purchasers. A variation on what I suggested might be a drop in price of the current TivoHD to $249 with the 320Gb version at $349. To offer the 320Gb at $299, I think they would have to drop the 160Gb version down to $199, and that may be too much of a hit for them to take.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

I'd like to see TiVo offer a greater variety of models than the current 2 1/2 (due to the uncertainty of future S3 availability) that they currently have.

A bargain basement TiVo for $99-149. It will be basically a tunerless S2 meant for those who cannot take advantage of CableCards or who prefer their cableco's STB for VOD/PPV services.

A base model TiVoHD for $199 or less. Drop in a smaller HD, perhaps 120 GB, to help get the price down. Perhaps single tuner only if that will lower the price even more, and to further differentiate it from its more expensive cousins. You won't be able to store a lot of HD video on it, but it should be on par with the SA8300HD I used to have. 

A midrange model in the $249-299 range, perhaps with a 250 GB HD instead of the current 160GB.

A top of the line, DEE-luxe model with all the bells and whistles for $499, including a gigantic built-in hard drive and/or perhaps the ability to have more than one eSATA connected to it.

I'd also like to see a TiVo model with built-in high definition disc burning support, whether HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Perhaps this could be a top of the line model for $999.


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## gcw07 (Oct 30, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> The only problem with that is the existing inventory. If you release a TivoHD product at 320Gb for $299, what happens to the inventory of the older 160Gb product?
> 
> Once inventory of the 160Gb version is exhausted, I agree they should lower the price. Of course, price drops can frustrate retailers and prior purchasers. A variation on what I suggested might be a drop in price of the current TivoHD to $249 with the 320Gb version at $349. To offer the 320Gb at $299, I think they would have to drop the 160Gb version down to $199, and that may be too much of a hit for them to take.


I really can't see how anybody would pay an extra $100 for only 160GB upgrade. You could just buy the $249 model and put in a 500GB drive for around the same cost. I think the only thing they could do with the old one, would be to reduce the cost down to $199. It actually might get more people to jump in.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Personally, I would like to see a TiVo that you can customize yourself. Hard drive wise.

I saying that you can go get any size hard drive you want and put it in there. When you turn on your TiVo, it will detect a new hard drive and configure it correctly. If necessary, it can download a software patch or program directly from TiVo via broadband connection.

You could also install a special ROM chip on board that has all the necessary information to install new drives automatically.

I say this simply because the number one thing that fails and fails often is the hard drives. Replacing a hard drive shouldn't have to be a science project when they go bad. Any DVR made should be able to have the consumer be able to replace parts like that.


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## gcw07 (Oct 30, 2007)

RonDawg said:


> I'd also like to see a TiVo model with built-in high definition disc burning support, whether HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Perhaps this could be a top of the line model for $999.


I really don't imagine seeing a Tivo with burning support for several years. I mean one of the cheapest Blu-Ray players at the moment is the PS3 for $399. The cheapest Blu-Ray burner is around $450. Some of the cheapest HD-DVD burners are around $300. I just don't see how they could get a built in burner anytime soon for less than $1000. Especially with the format war still going on (though that may not be for much longer with the Warner Bros. switch to Blu-Ray). I agree it would be a really nice feature, I just don't see it happening for now


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

gcw07 said:


> I really don't imagine seeing a Tivo with burning support for several years. I mean one of the cheapest Blu-Ray players at the moment is the PS3 for $399. The cheapest Blu-Ray burner is around $450. Some of the cheapest HD-DVD burners are around $300. I just don't see how they could get a built in burner anytime soon for less than $1000. Especially with the format war still going on (though that may not be for much longer with the Warner Bros. switch to Blu-Ray). I agree it would be a really nice feature, I just don't see it happening for now


I don't see it happening within the next 1 or even 2 years, but prices for HiDef burners should start coming down by then. At your quoted price it's already possible to make a true HD-DVD disc for about $750 + price of the discs: $300 or less for the THD, another $300 for the burner, and about $150 in software (VideoReDo for editing+ Ulead or Nero for burning). Those are consumer retail prices, OEM prices should be much less. So I don't think my $999 price is that far out of line.

Perhaps the HD-DVD supporters can convince TiVo to use HD-DVD burners instead of Blu-Ray, since with currently available software it's faster to make an HD-DVD disc than a Blu-Ray one. It would also help prevent (or at least delay further) HD-DVD going the way of the Betamax.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Scott D said:


> I saying that you can go get any size hard drive you want and put it in there. When you turn on your TiVo, it will detect a new hard drive and configure it correctly. If necessary, it can download a software patch or program directly from TiVo via broadband connection.


TiVo would have to change things internally some there is an unshielded power supply right now) to avoid any liability of opening the case or go somewhat more expensive and allow the drive to be swapped from a bay.
Your idea would make the TiVo cheaper though in the sense of selling a driveless option and you use your own drive.

of course the downside for TiVo inc. is that the TiVo with lifetime would still be going 30 years from now


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

usnret said:


> How about a Tivo HD with basic service, like the Toshiba SD-400 had. JMTCW


Basic is merely a truncated version of Plus. Both levels of service cost TiVo exactly the same to produce.

Cheap Basic Service @ $6 monthly or $200 Lifetime (with prorated credit toward an upgrade to Plus) might possibly make sense but free Basic would lose money for TiVo no matter how popular it became.

Unanswered question is would increased sales from cheap Basic increase overall revenue? I suspect that, appealing as the idea is, TiVo won't want to go there.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

fallingwater said:


> Basic is merely a truncated version of Plus. Both levels of service cost TiVo exactly the same to produce.
> 
> Cheap Basic Service @ $6 monthly or $200 Lifetime (with prorated credit toward an upgrade to Plus) might possibly make sense but free Basic would lose money for TiVo no matter how popular it became.


I don't think "Basic" service has any place in the market. Back when TiVo offered "Basic," many cable company DVRs were little more than digital VCRs. That is not the case anymore. Most customers aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars to get functionality that is inferior to what they've already got.

The upcoming Sling TR-50 is subscription-free, dual-tuner OTA DVR with a 250GB drive has has 7-days of guide data, season passes, and auto-record by keyword or title search. We don't know what it will cost, but Echostar did say it would be "aggressively priced." This is the sort of product TiVo will have to compete with going forward.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> Basic is merely a truncated version of Plus. Both levels of service cost TiVo exactly the same to produce.
> 
> Cheap Basic Service @ $6 monthly or $200 Lifetime (with prorated credit toward an upgrade to Plus) might possibly make sense but free Basic would lose money for TiVo no matter how popular it became.
> 
> Unanswered question is would increased sales from cheap Basic increase overall revenue? I suspect that, appealing as the idea is, TiVo won't want to go there.


I'm not so sure about that. Free Basic can be considered a "foot in the door". If TiVo can show consistently excellent quality of product (and I DON'T mean upgrades that screw things up and go unfixed) it could very likely persuade a fair percentage of basic users to upgrade to get extra features like MRV, extended listings, season passes, & etc. OK, it would cost a bit to support the guide for three days but it would almost certainly net quite a number of customers that they don't stand much chance of getting now.

I'm a case in point. I bought a Toshiba with free basic and before long bought two more and signed them all up for "plus".


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Make an offer to Directv when Malone takes over that at least gives Directv customers a choice, even if the cost limits its broad apeal. Something is better than nothing.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

E*'s version of HDD expandibility may not be instantaneous but offers flexibility far beyond just BIG. TiVo would do well to offer both types of external expandibility.

The current 'dongled' eSata HDD expansion is ridiculously simple but technically awkward as it doubles the odds of HDD failure. A much more sophisticated approach which offers both the reliability of a single internal HDD and simplicity of installation would be to provide a slot for a single, user replacable HDD. Such HDD's could be available preprogrammed by TiVo for the average user or hacked cheaply by tech savvy users!


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

RoyK said:


> Free Basic can be considered a "foot in the door". If TiVo can show consistently excellent quality of product (and I DON'T mean upgrades that screw things up and go unfixed) it could very likely persuade a fair percentage of basic users to upgrade to get extra features like MRV, extended listings, season passes, & etc. OK, it would cost a bit to support the guide for three days but it would almost certainly net quite a number of customers that they don't stand much chance of getting now.


Free Basic was designed as "a foot in the door", true. Undoubtedly TiVo has stats which either support or reject the soundness of the concept. (I find it significant that no current TiVo product offers TiVo Basic.)

The cost of providing TiVo Basic is identical to TiVo Plus. (Don't TiVo's with TiVo Basic actually contain all the Plus data which is then blocked by Basic s/w?)

As far as ugrading, it depends:

I've got a couple of DVD recorders with full editing capabilities which work great but require a user to consume way too much time to produce a professional looking DVD. Just not worth it most of the time! So I recently bought a couple of Toshiba RS-TX20's.

Each Toshiba TiVo is connected to the output of an S3 or HD hi-def TiVo and uses the Basic EPG for digital cable. Whenever there's a program worth recording it's ridiculously easy to get all the recording info from Basic data. The resulting DVD is both anamorphic and of excellent quality.


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## Globular (Jun 9, 2004)

HD Amazon Unbox downloads, soon. All the AppleTV thunder (rumble?) could be stolen with this announcement; "You get all the functionality of AppleTV, and oh, by the way, it comes with the best DVR on the planet!"

-Matt


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> I'm not so sure about that. Free Basic can be considered a "foot in the door". If TiVo can show consistently excellent quality of product".


I don't think it would generate a lot more PLUS sales. Recall that TiVo has data on the DVD models that had TiVo Basic. If TiVo had seen it as a good dsales tool for generating subs then they most likely would have tried something like it by now. heck I have a RS TX20 under month to month sub that I will move to my DT as soon as it goes off the one year bundle. I watch DVDs and record 3 or 4th conflicts on the ToshiVo but really do not need a sub on it so soon it will cost them money again.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

bkdtv said:


> I don't think "Basic" service has any place in the market. Back when TiVo offered "Basic," many cable company DVRs were little more than digital VCRs. That is not the case anymore. Most customers aren't going to pay hundreds of dollars to get functionality that is inferior to what they've already got.
> 
> The upcoming Sling TR-50 is subscription-free, dual-tuner OTA DVR with a 250GB drive has has 7-days of guide data, season passes, and auto-record by keyword or title search. We don't know what it will cost, but Echostar did say it would be "aggressively priced." This is the sort of product TiVo will have to compete with going forward.


Has E*'s TR-50 actually been branded as 'Sling'?

While costs may make Basic Service an untenable option, I'm not convinced that advanced features appeal to much of the mass audience. Even the simplest DVR offers many more features, much higher quality recordings, and is much easier to use than any VCR. A single click-to-record from EPG may be all that many DVR users really want. Priced cheap such a product would cut into TiVo sales.

The main reason the TR-50 needs to be cheap is that it's limited to OTA only, no matter what else it offers.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> Has E*'s TR-50 actually been branded as 'Sling'?.


yes. E* /DISh has been moving things around and renaming who does what but they seem settled on branding the DVRs under Sling which is great idea as they would not be confused then as just Sat products plus Sling has a great rep already in its short brand name life.

the Thing TiVo has to deal with is that the TR-50 is not going to cost E* anymore money after it goes out the door. No monthly expense for guide data, etc.. TiVo would have to redo its guide data setup to avoid the daily call in and not supply guide data from zap2it in order to put out a "Tivo basic model"* with no sub.

*and yes, TiVo would have to include season passes and wishlists in "TiVo Basic" to compete nowadays


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

fallingwater said:


> Has E*'s TR-50 actually been branded as 'Sling'?


Echostar said later that it would carry the Sling brand.

Echostar showed a Sling-branded version of the TR-40 ($39 STB) at CES.



fallingwater said:


> the Thing TiVo has to deal with is that the TR-50 is not going to cost E* anymore money after it goes out the door. No monthly expense for guide data, etc.. TiVo would have to redo its guide data setup to avoid the daily call in and not supply guide data from zap2it in order to put out a "Tivo basic model"* with no sub.


TiVo could do what Echostar is doing -- license the TVGoS guide data from Gemstar.

Echostar got Gemstar's help in adding direct support for the TVGuide data format in their software, and presumably TiVo could do the same.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

What I'd do:

Sunset the "Analog" Series 2 platform, and launch the Series 2 Digital, based on the TiVoHD platform. Offer upgrade deals for existing Series 1/2 users that use OTA. Issue them in 120GB drives standard. Don't release 160GB or larger models until the 160GB TiVoHDs are eliminated. If not, add digital OTA tuner support on the Series 2 platform.

For now, upgrade the TiVoHD to the most reasonable 250-350GB HDD deal that can be obtained.

Launch the next gen two-way digital platform next year.

Get direct IPTV support on the Digital/HD platforms.

Get the tuning resolver resolved.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes. E* /DISh has been moving things around and renaming who does what but they seem settled on branding the DVRs under Sling which is great idea as they would not be confused then as just Sat products plus Sling has a great rep already in its short brand name life.
> 
> the Thing TiVo has to deal with is that the TR-50 is not going to cost E* anymore money after it goes out the door. No monthly expense for guide data, etc.. TiVo would have to redo its guide data setup to avoid the daily call in and not supply guide data from zap2it in order to put out a "Tivo basic model"* with no sub.
> 
> *and yes, TiVo would have to include season passes and wishlists in "TiVo Basic" to compete nowadays


(As indicated the above is Zeo's, not mine.)

Season Passes and Wishlists aren't Basic type features though.

TiVo currently gets guide data from TMS not zap2it, no?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12825526#post12825526


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

fallingwater said:


> (As indicated the above is Zeo's, not mine.)
> 
> Season Passes and Wishlists aren't Basic type features though.
> 
> ...


Zap2It is the online version of the TMS. TiVo gets their information from Tribune, which is [essentially] the same thing you see on Zap2It.com.

Their competition is Gemstar's TVGuide; you can compare their guide data at TVGuide.com.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12825526#post12825526[/url]


I understand Season passes and wishlists are not Basic type service but if TiVo was going to make TiVo Basic sell it would need to include them nowadays, given things like the Dish/Sling OTA DVR with no sub coming out etc..

and sure TMS is more accurate.


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## Solver (Feb 17, 2005)

Mac World 2009
Apple anounces the new Apple TV/R (with TiVo software)


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

classicsat said:


> What I'd do:
> 
> Sunset the "Analog" Series 2 platform, and launch the Series 2 Digital, based on the TiVoHD platform. Offer upgrade deals for existing Series 1/2 users that use OTA. Issue them in 120GB drives standard. Don't release 160GB or larger models until the 160GB TiVoHDs are eliminated. If not, add digital OTA tuner support on the Series 2 platform.
> 
> For now, upgrade the TiVoHD to the most reasonable 250-350GB HDD deal that can be obtained.


Should the Tivo Digital keep the analog tuners and add digital? Or should it do away with the analog tuners and NTSC encoders entirely?

I think better clear QAM support would be essential to a Tivo Digital without CableCards.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> TiVo added less than 250,000 net customers in 2008.


I would think this was pretty good for 17 days.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

classicX said:


> I would think this was pretty good for 17 days.


In Tivo's dreams. Fixed that typo.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

TiVo Basic Product Lifetime:

$199, applicable to all "Digital Tuner" TiVo DVRs which have fulfilled their commitments, or are new with no rebates (full price retail).

Offers you setup choice of either:

A. DVR with 7 day guide and recording features competitive with other free-to-use DVRs (Standalones only). 

Oh, and add IR or USB keyboard support.

B. Home media client. Will play media from other fully subbed TiVos or your PC (including new Desktop 2.6 RSS features), Tuner features only include LiveTV and Series 1 like manual recording.

In either case, Networking features include outside content and features from Unbox, TiVocast, and other partners (if networked).
The tuners will fully work, and tune channels the same way a fully subbed TiVo will, including interactive and passive two-way, on such capable units.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> Should the Tivo Digital keep the analog tuners and add digital? Or should it do away with the analog tuners and NTSC encoders entirely?
> 
> I think better clear QAM support would be essential to a Tivo Digital without CableCards.


It will have at least one SD analog A/V input (and therefore encoder) for STB support. Being it is a Series 2 replacement, and a lot of Series 1/2 users have to use a them because of an STB, STB support is retained.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

Slap an Apple, Google, Sony, M$FT logo on Tivo, Maybe a Tivo Air, gTivo, TivStation, Tivo360? 

Seriously, I doubt Tivo has any huge secret up their sleeves. Anything that they announce that are completely new will take a year to come out anyway. Based on that assumption, my reasons to get excited about 08 are:

1) Tivo Desktop 2.6
2) Unbox HD rental
3) HW price drop on Tivo S3 or Tivo HD

and a long shot

4) Tivo sub fee drop because their ad-based revenue is kicking so much a$$


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> I understand Season passes and wishlists are not Basic type service but if TiVo was going to make TiVo Basic sell it would need to include them nowadays, given things like the Dish/Sling OTA DVR with no sub coming out etc..
> 
> and sure TMS is more accurate.


TiVo and ReplayTV have different descriptions in their respective EPG's. Are they from different sources or just different levels of detail from TMS?

Although TiVo's program descriptions are generally longer, depending on how a program is listed, there are occasions when ReplayTV finds it but TiVo doesn't, as when a program's name has 2 parts such as _*NOVA: Finding the Lost Chord*_.

IMHO, a TiVo BasicPlus level of service makes as much sense to sell as TiVo Basic makes sense to give away. Basically (chuckle) I mean that neither is likely.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

What should TiVo do this year generate consumer interest ?

Solve the writers strike..fast or all DVRs will not have much use.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

classicsat said:


> What I'd do:
> 
> Sunset the "Analog" Series 2 platform, and launch the Series 2 Digital, based on the TiVoHD platform. Offer upgrade deals for existing Series 1/2 users that use OTA. Issue them in 120GB drives standard. Don't release 160GB or larger models until the 160GB TiVoHDs are eliminated. If not, add digital OTA tuner support on the Series 2 platform.


What would be the differences between S2 Digital and HDTiVo in features and pricing?

IMHO;
(1) S2 requires OTA STB ('converter') support to continue to be sold in the digital era. TiVo will lose part of its revenue base if existing S2 users have to consider switching before they're ready. 
And,
(2) HDTiVo needs at least some (via existing PSIP data) digital channel mapping w/o CableCARDS to maintain its competitive position.


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## drumdude (Dec 25, 2007)

Make Tivo HD work with DirecTV so I can go back to them and get rid of this lousy Time Warner Cable!


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## Cooper (Oct 10, 2002)

How about build a time machine so they can take their collective heads out of their a**es regarding partnerships with cable companies before it was too late?

I'm as much a Tivo fan as the next guy, but its getting harder and harder to convince people to go out and buy a box and pay a monthly subscription fee for something their cable company will give them for free (or close to free.)

Sorry guys.


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## RonDawg (Jan 12, 2006)

Cooper said:


> I'm as much a Tivo fan as the next guy, but its getting harder and harder to convince people to go out and buy a box and pay a monthly subscription fee for something their cable company will give them for free (or close to free.)


Charter just raised its prices for its HD-DVR to $15/month. Hardly what I call "free or close to free." when a CableCard is $2/month and I'm only paying $9.95/month for MSD subscription. I'm actually saving money now that I've switched to the TiVoHD.

And even if I wasn't saving money, TiVo's superior interface and greater capacity is well worth the price.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

lessd said:


> What should TiVo do this year generate consumer interest ?
> 
> Solve the writers strike..fast or all DVRs will not have much use.


I've been recording an awful lot of stuff during the strike. *Some* different stuff, but new (to me) shows.. and I don't mean network reruns. reality shows, some PBS shows, etc.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> [*] *Improved support for Clear QAM*
> 
> Cable companies make it very difficult to obtain a CableCard without $60+ digital service. Many people just want the HD locals -- not the full digital package -- and they can't or won't mount an antenna.
> 
> ...


While I want this, and I would pay a one-time fee for it (even as a lifetime subscriber I will pay more for specific features), Moxi basically just imploded, so I don't think using them as a counterexample is really good.


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## SGR215 (Jan 20, 2004)

2008

Continue to make the Tivo a complete media center. Features would consist of:


Support for various video codecs (Such as DivX)
Allow streaming of videos (Rather than downloading)
Ability to store, organize, and play videos/mp3's
FTP support to upload music/video collections
MP3 support with full screen visuals and ability to organize by folders, tags, etc
Customization (Custom backgrounds, custom sounds, ability to edit menu's, etc)
 Interactive rating system (Think Web 2.0. For example, give users the ability to rate shows/movies and even access to reviews written by fellow Tivo customers)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> TiVo and ReplayTV have different descriptions in their respective EPG's. Are they from different sources or just different levels of detail from TMS?


actually yes, TiVo does pay specifically for guide data that will work well with their season passes, so they would very likely be different from Replay.

however if you followed the conversation of the posts I was "Saying Tivo gets its guide data from TMS is more accurate than saying it gets its guide data from zap2it.com"


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

Grandfather all TiVo lifetime series one units activated after 1/20/2000 for a one time transfer with payment of a $100 transfer fee to any other TiVo. Lifetime units activated before this date are already grandfathered for a one time no fee transfer.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

I'd like to see all S1's and S2's with Lifetime Service (activated after 1/20/2000) get such a one-time transfer opportunity. But to make sense for TiVo the xfr. fee has got to be higher; at least $199 or more!


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> What would be the differences between S2 Digital and HDTiVo in features and pricing?


In a nutshell, a Series 2 Digital=TiVoHD-HD out-80GB+SD STB input and IR/Serial control. The TiVoHD platform as it stands has the capability, it would just require a build order.


> IMHO;
> (1) S2 requires OTA STB ('converter') support to continue to be sold in the digital era. TiVo will lose part of its revenue base if existing S2 users have to consider switching before they're ready.
> And,


No they don't, legally anyways. From a marketplace perspective,though, perhaps.


> (2) HDTiVo needs at least some (via existing PSIP data) digital channel mapping w/o CableCARDS to maintain its competitive position.


Yes they do. But can they, and is it worth it to implement it.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> I'd like to see all S1's and S2's with Lifetime Service (activated after 1/20/2000) get such a one-time transfer opportunity. But to make sense for TiVo the xfr. fee has got to be higher; at least $199 or more!


They did that, back when the Series 3 was launched.
They have to narrow the window though with lower cost DVRs though.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

classicsat said:


> They did that, back when the Series 3 was launched.


Yes. But that was yesterday.



> They have to narrow the window though with lower cost DVRs though.


With digital broadcasting only a year and a month away, TiVo has a decision to make regarding S2; support OTA digital converters, or basically write the OTA subs off.

Why not consider offering a deal which would result in a net cash inflow?

TiVo has the savvy to price hi-def capable TiVos at the most effective price point for maximizing revenue which takes into account the cost of sub aquisition and retention.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

classicsat said:


> In a nutshell, a Series 2 Digital=TiVoHD-HD out-80GB+SD STB input and IR/Serial control. The TiVoHD platform as it stands has the capability, it would just require a build order.


IMHO the cost of development and changing the hardware wouldn't result in a cheaper product than HDTiVo.



> No they don't, legally anyways.


Yes, of course



> From a marketplace perspective,though, perhaps.


Ah, yes!



> ...is it worth it to implement it.


That's the question!


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## funtoupgrade (Mar 15, 2005)

fallingwater said:


> I'd like to see all S1's and S2's with Lifetime Service (activated after 1/20/2000) get such a one-time transfer opportunity. But to make sense for TiVo the xfr. fee has got to be higher; at least $199 or more!


As the OP I propose this basically to reward many of the very long term TiVo owners who are still using a lifetime series one. I know some newer folks are using these, but that is also true for the current grandfathered units. I suggest the fixed $100 transfer fee only because the original grandfathered units have no transfer fee. I guess only TiVo would be able to estimate how many active series ones are out there with lifetime to determine if this is feasible. I would think such a policy would generate enough new hardware sales for a nice influx of cash.

While I would like to see the Series2's included for my benefit, I think that would be a problem for TiVo unless they made the transfer fee very steep.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

funtoupgrade said:


> I suggest the fixed $100 transfer fee only because the original grandfathered units have no transfer fee.


most of the series 1 got lifetime at $199. Those subs already got the $100 discount you ask for


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

fallingwater said:


> IMHO the cost of development and changing the hardware wouldn't result in a cheaper product than HDTiVo.


But cutting parts out will reduce cost, especially those that have licensing fees attached, or those that the customers may perceive as having value (and as such are keeping the TiVo HD artificially high, or could if they introduce a 250GB or two-way model).


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

What parts would result in significant cost savings if left out?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

I don't know exactly, that is something the engineers/bean counters will have to figure out, but I am guessing:

Cut HDD size (until 160GB TiVo HDs are gone).
omit HD and digital audio outputs (and any licenses required for that).
Perhaps use a drop-in replacement Broadcom system chip with less features.
Omit the eSATA port and support chip.
Make it M-card only.
Have it cable _or_ antenna, instead of cable _and_ antenna, the TiVo HD and Series 3 are.


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## fallingwater (Dec 29, 2007)

I really don't know either. But, IMHO, it's likely that such cuts would cost more to implement than the savings would be worth, or that cutting back on features would reduce demand enough that ROI wouldn't improve!


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## TiVoEvan74 (Sep 11, 2004)

What a great thread! Hope the folks at TiVo take a look see at it.

I like the Apple TV + TiVo software notion! I assume that TiVo makes its money from the subs and not the hardware... what model would work with the Apple TV?

Perhaps it could come with TiVo Basic and then there'd be an easy upgrade with a monthly sub. Don't know... 

Of course, it would be a challenge to Apple's model which is rental and buys from iTunes, not OTA/cable recording. So, perhaps the question should be, what would Apple's model be if they licensed or bought Tivo?


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## MighTiVo (Oct 26, 2000)

1. Offer a subscription free ATSC tuner box with MRV playback capability.
2. Offer a USB controlled ATSC tuner box for S2
3. Offer a BluRay recorder combo box (or HDDVD if the price is right and Toshiba gets back on track)
4. Support full standby - green initiative. Shut down hard drive and don't buffer when not actively recording.
5. Get MRV working on DTV TiVo boxes.
6. More IPTV - Beyond Unbox, Blockbuster, netflix, NBC, Fox, ITunes, anyone!
Be sure to include quality free content, competitive subscription service, and reasonable rental or purchase prices. Also support HD IPTV with HD and S3 box.


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## slyone (Jul 22, 2005)

Here's whats wrong with Tivo in my opinion....and it has nothing to do with hardware! The ridiculously high priced Lifetime sub..period! Consumers as myself have no real objection to paying "whatever" for upgrades. The problem is coming up with that additional "huge" hunk of cash immediately after initial purchase of said hardware..Period! It is a very difficult task for most. They(Tivo) should make their current holiday pricing permanent and make the Lifetime sub available for the 1st year and/or a payment schedule for it as well. This would increase customer base greatly...plus it wouldn't hurt to run a few Tivo ads on television too!


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

MighTiVo said:


> 1. Offer a subscription free ATSC tuner box with MRV playback capability.


I kind of said that. IMO, to some degree, transfers have to be part of the paid service. That said, TiVo's business is the subscription, and I doubt they would be into selling "free-to-use" hardware.


> 2. Offer a USB controlled ATSC tuner box for S2


I don't think they want to do that, although might be technically simpler than a Series 2 digital. Easier would be to work with an OEM/ODM to make one serially compatible with TiVo, or just make the Series 2 fully compatible with DTV tuners on, and to be on the market (as they arrive).


> 3. Offer a BluRay recorder combo box (or HDDVD if the price is right and Toshiba gets back on track)


Not on Digital cable models, which will be the future of their hardware. This is because of copyright issues.


> 4. Support full standby - green initiative. Shut down hard drive and don't buffer when not actively recording.


Doable. It would tkae a hardware re-design to realize it.


> 5. Get MRV working on DTV TiVo boxes.


Not TiVos call. DirecTV has to choose that.


> 6. More IPTV - Beyond Unbox, Blockbuster, netflix, NBC, Fox, ITunes, anyone!


That is web content, not IPTV in the technical sense.
Mostly contractual, partly technical (at least for existing Series 2 users).


> Be sure to include quality free content, competitive subscription service, and reasonable rental or purchase prices.


That would be up to the content creators/rights holders/services to decide.


> Also support HD IPTV with HD and S3 box.


Real IPTV, as in Uverse and other similar services.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Product Lifetime is a burden for them, so they have to limit the availability of that Subscription, and/or make it harder to get.


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