# 20.4.6 Release Notes



## TiVoMargret

We have just authorized the first 2,000 TiVo Roamio and TiVo Mini customers from the priority list (http://tivo.com/priority) to receive the 20.4.6 software update. Additional groups of customers (including TiVo Premiere signups) will be updated AFTER the Superbowl. (So, if you dont get it today, you will get it next week.)

The big news this release is that OnePass replaces Season Pass, and puts links to streaming videos into My Shows so you can watch every episode -- recorded or not. I previously posted detailed information about OnePass functionality here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10363391#post10363391

I know some people are worried about the change that prohibits getting more than one OnePass for a show. Continuing to allow this added a lot of complication as we made the changes to support streaming video options. OnePass will let you record on all channels or one specific channel. If you were using two Season Passes so that you could have different recording options on different channels, here are some things you might consider:

1. Get the OnePass for All Channels, and either mark the important episodes Keep Until I Delete after they record, or delete the ones you dont care about.

2. Get the OnePass for the channel you really care about. Turn Suggestions On, and give the show 3 thumbs up. Any episodes that record on other channels (as Suggestions) will show up in your OnePass folder. You can watch the episodes, mark them keep longer, or let them come and go as disk space is needed.

Here are some other changes in the release:

- Ability to add a link to a streaming movie and have it appear in the Streaming Movies folder in My Shows

- Updated Amazon Instant Video app (with Amazon Prime) will be available on TiVo Premiere boxes

- If you are running the 3.5 version of the TiVo app for iOS, you will be able to move shows that were recorded on your DVR from copy-protected channels. (Once the download has been completed, the original recording will be deleted from your DVR. Downloads must be initiated while on your home network.)

- New Power Saving options for TiVo Roamio boxes (Settings > Devices). There are multiple options available. For the biggest power savings the box will wake up for user-scheduled recordings, and will only record suggestions during the awake period. For somewhat less power savings the box will wake up to record suggestions.

- Three additional screens are now available in HD Menus style: Set Up a Manual Recording, Find by Time, and Find by Channel. They are located under TiVo Central > Manage Recordings & OnePass.

- Amazon Instant Video now appears alongside other apps in My Shows

- Fixed the issue where some Mini customers would see a V87 error when they tried to watch an episode that was still recording on the DVR

- Fixed an issue where some customers would see a blue spinning circle when trying to create or update a Season Pass (now OnePass)

- Fixed an issue where duplicate recordings were happening when a user deleted a single episode from a Season Pass (now OnePass) and created a manual recording instead

- Fixed a problem where modifying a Season Pass in SD menus would set it to record on all channels"

For those not on the priority list, I expect the full rollout to be complete by the end of February.

Up Next: Our 2015 Spring release will make VUDU available on Premiere boxes.

--Margret


----------



## JoeKustra

Power Savings! I could kiss you.


----------



## dalabera

JoeKustra said:


> Power Savings! I could kiss you.


Hold that thought! She is taken!! jajaja Anyway Keep the good work!!!


----------



## kbmb

Pending Restart......YEAH! 
(working from home is great on Tivo release days!!)

Thanks for the detailed info Margret!!

-Kevin


----------



## obeythelaw2004

This is awesome. Thanks so much for the updates!


----------



## tatergator1

Well, this should leave only Settings screens in SD. Nice to see the manual recording pages finally updated to HD. 

Some other good fixes and adds besides the headline OnePass upgrade.


----------



## kbmb

Both boxes updated quickly. Nice job on OnePass and the iOS app!

-Kevin


----------



## Joe Siegler

OK, I got updated about an hour ago (welcome msg here). I'm playing around with OnePass, and it will take some getting used to. I've had a TiVo now for 15 years, and the concept of being able to see more than what I have recorded in "My Shows" will take some rearranging of the brain process.

First off, for those concerned it will change existing Season Passes, it won't. Everything I had there is still as it was. OnePass is a name change only, to reflect the fact that it can bundle in streaming options in addition to what you've recorded. All existing functionality (as far as I can tell) is still there.

I have found a few oddities though.

1) You can scroll through shows in Explore, and add entire series or specific seasons to "My Shows". This then "groups" the show, and even if you just a single episode recorded, it continues to "group". There appears to be no way to "undo" this "add to my shows" thing that I can find. If anyone can find out how, let me know. Pic of it here:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/560540113101287424









*UPDATE #1:* I found a way around that. If you tell it to just use recordings, and then delete your only recorded episode, go to deleted folder and recover it... It will then "undo" the "add to my shows grouping" thing from OnePass. That's a really strange way to undo that feature though.

2) When you are looking at the combination of recorded shows and streaming shows, it doesn't appear to pick up shows in your deleted folder anymore. Whether this is by design or a bug/problem, I don't know. See the linked picture. S4E3 (Major Star) is indeed in my deleted folder, but doesn't show here, nor does there appear to be any indication that I can recover it as you've been able to in the past.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/560540457080340480









Overall, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about having shows in there that I haven't explicitly recorded.


----------



## HenryFarpolo

Thanks for the release notes and the early view of the update. My boxes all updated without issue.


----------



## Joe Siegler

Yay for HD version of manual recording/by channel/time area. 

Now onto settings!


----------



## Joe Siegler

Default settings for a OnePass.


----------



## JoeKustra

Joe Siegler said:


> OK, I got updated about an hour ago (welcome msg here). I'm playing around with OnePass, and it will take some getting used to. I've had a TiVo now for 15 years, and the concept of being able to see more than what I have recorded in "My Shows" will take some rearranging of the brain process.
> 
> First off, for those concerned it will change existing Season Passes, it won't. Everything I had there is still as it was. OnePass is a name change only, to reflect the fact that it can bundle in streaming options in addition to what you've recorded. All existing functionality (as far as I can tell) is still there.


It says "Power Savings when you put the Roamio into Standby". Is that true since I never use Standby. I guess I should have figured that out.


----------



## tatergator1

Joe Siegler said:


> Overall, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about having shows in there that I haven't explicitly recorded.


Why not just hit the "C" button in folder view and filter to only your recordings in that view? It would presumably save the filter, at least I would think so.


----------



## Dan203

tatergator1 said:


> Well, this should leave only Settings screens in SD. Nice to see the manual recording pages finally updated to HD.


The Manual Recordings section was updated to HD like two years ago. (around the time the Mini was released) Not sure why it's listed as being new. The other two are new though and will complete the transition to HD for all but the settings screens, which I assume people don't really frequent often.


----------



## joewom

Well I was hoping my XL4 was in the first batch as I would love Amazon on it. But that connected quick and nothing. My plus took about 5 min to download a d showing pending restart. Nice. Weird since I signed all 9 tivos up at same time. Mini taking a bit to download to so might have a few minis updated too.

Update: so far two minis and my roamio plus have it.


----------



## TiVoMargret

joewom said:


> Well I was hoping my XL4 was in the first batch as I would love Amazon on it. But that connected quick and nothing. My plus took about 5 min to download a d showing pending restart. Nice. Weird since I signed all 9 tivos up at same time. Mini taking a bit to download to so might have a few minis updated too.
> 
> Update: so far two minis and my roamio plus have it.


Premiere boxes won't start updating until next week. (There is more coordination/timing needed with the transition to the new Amazon app.)


----------



## joewom

TiVoMargret said:


> Premiere boxes won't start updating until next week. (There is more coordination/timing needed with the transition to the new Amazon app.)


Oh ok that answered why all but that one got the update. Thank you for the reply!!!


----------



## kbmb

Couple of things I've noticed:

- If you select the option for Rent or Buy to not include.....it won't list the shows that don't have a free option.....but for shows that do have the free option, it will also list paid sources when you go into the show.

- The new progress meter seems to only work on shows in a group.

- Once you have both the Tivo and iOS app updated, the iOS app will finally let you change the channel for the pass from All Channels to a particular channel or the other way.

-Kevin


----------



## RoyK

TiVoMargret said:


> ...
> I know some people are worried about the change that prohibits getting more than one OnePass for a show. Continuing to allow this added a lot of complication as we made the changes to support streaming video options.
> --Margret


It's a pity that was beyond the skill set of your programmers. Adding the capacity of jamming static URLs into a list already being generated by a thoroughly debugged scheduling algorithm must indeed be extremely difficult.


----------



## TiVoMargret

RoyK said:


> It's a pity that was beyond the skill set of your programmers. Adding the capacity of jamming static URLs into a list already being generated by a thoroughly debugged scheduling algorithm must indeed be extremely difficult.


We also consider the level of complication it adds to the user's experience, and how many people use the feature.


----------



## Am_I_Evil

no update for me...but that's my fault for not signing up on the priority request until last night...


----------



## andyf

Only "Groups" in My Shows? Guess I'm going to have to alter my "watch the oldest first" habit.


----------



## Dan203

The date of the sort in My Shows gets messed up if you alter a OnePass. For example I had one for Royal Pains which last recorded back in September. I had previously been watching the episodes via Netflix so I set the OnePass to both recordings and streaming, now that folder shows at the top of My Shows when sorted by date with today's date listed for the group. I did the same thing for Helix and now it's listed first.


----------



## kbmb

Dan203 said:


> The date of the sort in My Shows gets messed up if you alter a OnePass. For example I had one for Royal Pains which last recorded back in September. I had previously been watching the episodes via Netflix so I set the OnePass to both recordings and streaming, now that folder shows at the top of My Shows when sorted by date with today's date listed for the group. I did the same thing for Helix and now it's listed first.


I'm seeing the same. Guessing if no recorded show is in the folder, then it goes to the top?

-Kevin


----------



## Dan203

Mine has recordings. From September of last year. And those are the newest episodes for the whole series, so it shouldn't be putting them at the top when sorted by date.


----------



## kbmb

Dan203 said:


> Mine has recordings. From September of last year. And those are the newest episodes for the whole series, so it shouldn't be putting them at the top when sorted by date.


Ah gotcha. I was adding some with no recordings in them.

-Kevin


----------



## kbmb

RoyK said:


> You underrate your user's intelligence, I think.


You haven't met my mother 

-Kevin


----------



## RoyK

T


TiVoMargret said:


> We also consider the level of complication it adds to the user's experience, and how many people use the feature.


You underrate your users' intelligence, I think.


----------



## takeagabu

RoyK said:


> T
> 
> You underrate your users' intelligence, I think.


You are underestimating how many people bought tivos for their grandparents.


----------



## RoyK

takeagabu said:


> You are underestimating how many people bought tivos for their grandparents.


You underestimate the capability of grandparents! (I have 6 grandchildren - - five of them adults )


----------



## takeagabu

RoyK said:


> You underestimate the capability of grandparents! (I have 6 grandchildren)


touché


----------



## JWhites

This is all amazing news Margret, but why is there still no way to signup the Stream for the priority list? Many of us really are looking forward to being able to stream MPEG4 content and download premium content, and when will TiVo get rid of the proxy server for out of home streaming so we can get in home streaming quality?
I also don't know why TiVo didn't give the power savings settings to the Premiere units as well. Here's a screenshot of a menu glitch noticed on the Premiere units back in July, which shows a hidden Power Saving setting.


----------



## Dan203

The proxy is still there. My cable company doesn't do MPEG4 so I can't test that.


----------



## Sixto

Downloaded. I like the progress bar within a group.


----------



## rainwater

Sorting in My Shows is definitely messed up after making a OnePass change. If you resort it seems to go back to normal at least temporarily. This is going to be quite a mess for me as I rely on the sort order.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Is it a placebo effect, a bi-product of rebooting the first time in months, or is the Roamio a pinch faster for anybody else?


----------



## Ashton

Thanks for the release notes.


----------



## 59er

Margret, you so often thrill me.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

TiVoMargret said:


> I know some people are worried about the change that prohibits getting more than one OnePass for a show.


This is a significant feature regression in my usage of TiVo.

The workarounds suggested have already been a reduction in usability for me. The show I want to record is shown on four separate networks on my cable system, with multiple showings each day on two of the networks. I'm now going to be spending too much time recording and deleting episodes that I do not want to see. Additionally, I had one of the Season Passes at a lower priority because it was reruns. I won't be able to have different priorities for first-time showings on one network and reruns on another network

Instead of the TiVo scheduling "just working" as it used to do, now it requires too much hand holding and intervention to get it to do what it had been doing.

With OnePass, TiVo is becoming more of a tedium and less of a convenience.

:down: :down: :down:


----------



## generaltso

After watching a OnePass show from Netflix, how do you go back to the folder you played it from? With Amazon, the replay button backs out of the app, but that doesn't work with Netflix. I know I can hit the TiVo button twice, but is that the only way if I'm using an original Slide remote?


----------



## innocentfreak

I was playing with the update.

I am guessing the start from option under onepass options actually only filters out streamed content? I have a show with episodes recorded from three seasons. I tried changing to start from season 2 but nothing changed in the folder except it excluded the streaming options for the first season. The recordings from season 1 still show in the folder.

I was hoping the start from option would also tell TiVo to only record from that season on for repeats but I am guessingg not.

I did notice if you change the number of episodes for a pass it no longer deletes any episodes over that number. This used to delete any episodes above that number.


----------



## rainwater

innocentfreak said:


> I
> I am guessing the start from option under onepass options actually only filters out streamed content?


I don't think it is clear at all what that option actually does. It really seems like that should be an option under the folder in My Shows. I can't imagine a normal user knowing what that option actually does.


----------



## n2lovell

innocentfreak said:


> I was hoping the start from option would also tell TiVo to only record from that season on for repeats but I am guessingg not.


Changing the startFrom option changes both what streaming videos you see, and what shows you will record in the future. It does not hide recordings that you already have.


----------



## n2lovell

generaltso said:


> After watching a OnePass show from Netflix, how do you go back to the folder you played it from? With Amazon, the replay button backs out of the app, but that doesn't work with Netflix.


Press Clear.


----------



## rainwater

n2lovell said:


> Changing the startFrom option changes both what streaming videos you see, and what shows you will record in the future. It does not hide recordings that you already have.


If that is true then that is extremely confusing given there is now 2 options that define recording new episodes and they are under different options. So there are now:

Start From: New Episodes Only
Record: New Only

This seems extremely ambiguous to me.


----------



## wmcbrine

Dan203 said:


> The other two are new though and will complete the transition to HD for all but the settings screens, which I assume people don't really frequent often.


Not only the Settings screens. There are also the HMO Music, Photo and Video menus. (The video menus used when connecting to pre-Premiere TiVos, TiVo Desktop, pyTivo, etc.)


----------



## generaltso

n2lovell said:


> Press Clear.


Thanks! That works for both Netflix and Amazon.


----------



## generaltso

kbmb said:


> If you select the option for Rent or Buy to not include.....it won't list the shows that don't have a free option.....but for shows that do have the free option, it will also list paid sources when you go into the show.


This is very annoying. If I tell it not to include options that cost money, they shouldn't be included right next to the free option. I may know that the Vudu or XOD options aren't free, but not everyone in the house is going to know the difference.


----------



## aforkosh

The update was installed on my Roamio Pro. Here are a few nits:

The URL http://tivo.com/onepass currently returns aa 'not found' error page.

The Power Savings Settings page claims to be found at
TiVo Central>Settings & Messages>Settings>DVR & Accessories
But it is actually found at 
TiVo Central>Settings & Messages>Settings>Remote, [CableCARD,]& Devices.

(CableCARD is in the name on the Settings menu, but it is not in the menu title.


----------



## CoxInPHX

What did the update do if you already had more than one Season Pass?

Did it delete the others or combine them?


----------



## grimmace92

I downloaded a copy protected show to my iphone and the watch on iphone box is greyed out. Can't watch it and its been deleted from the tivo hard drive


----------



## Bytez

Why is the proxy server still being used for streaming?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## TiVoMargret

JWhites said:


> This is all amazing news Margret, but why is there still no way to signup the Stream for the priority list? Many of us really are looking forward to being able to stream MPEG4 content and download premium content, and when will TiVo get rid of the proxy server for out of home streaming so we can get in home streaming quality?
> I also don't know why TiVo didn't give the power savings settings to the Premiere units as well. Here's a screenshot of a menu glitch noticed on the Premiere units back in July, which shows a hidden Power Saving setting.


Streams will be updated next month.

Series4 doesn't have the hardware required for power savings -- it was a glitch that the setting showed up on that platform.


----------



## TiVoMargret

grimmace92 said:


> I downloaded a copy protected show to my iphone and the watch on iphone box is greyed out.  Can't watch it and its been deleted from the tivo hard drive


Did you delete it, or was it automatically deleted after the transfer?

Is it in the "Recently Deleted" folder?

Please email me your TSN and any other details you have: [email protected]

--Margret


----------



## JWhites

grimmace92 said:


> I downloaded a copy protected show to my iphone and the watch on iphone box is greyed out. Can't watch it and its been deleted from the tivo hard drive


I don't think that feature was ready yet since they said the Stream, whether built in or stand alone, would have to be updated as well and I don't think that update is out yet.


----------



## JWhites

Thank you for the response Margret. What about the concern about the proxy sever? Will it finally go away and use port forwarding or some other method that will give OOH streamers better picture quality? By next month you mean February or do you mean March? Will there be release notes in the Stream section of the forum like you do here? When after the Super Bowl will Premiere units on the priority list start getting the update! Monday? Tuesday?


----------



## JNEggie

All 4 of my Romio Pros received the update today!

So far I really like the update!

Some of the complaints that people have can be answered by using the "A", "B", and "C" buttons! 

I really wish some people would take the time to read before they just go out and ***** about the update!


----------



## JWhites

JNEggie said:


> All 4 of my Romio Pros received the update today!
> 
> So far I really like the update!
> 
> Some of the complaints that people have can be answered by using the "A", "B", and "C" buttons!
> 
> I really wish some people would take the time to read before they just go out and ***** about the update!


+:up: I wonder if there is any use for the D button yet.


----------



## JNEggie

For me, the streaming options I have are Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, and Xfinity On Demand. With those options, I have no need for VUDU (rent/buy). As a result, I went in to My Video Providers and de-selected VUDU. This now completely prevents The VUDU rent/buy from showing up in my OnePasses. Additionally, if people set up a Purchase Control PIN, then this adds an additional safe guard to prevent accidental rent/buy!


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Arcady

nooneuknow said:


> What if I have "Supernatural" set to:
> 
> 1006 New Only (HD) <--- top of list
> 6 All (SD) <--- bottom of list
> 18 All (SD) <--- middle-low of list ???


Rethink what you are doing? Why do you need new episodes in HD, then random repeats in SD? How does that even make sense?

I have repeats of Supernatural. They are in boxes on my DVD shelf, collecting dust.


----------



## realityboy

Arcady said:


> Rethink what you are doing? Why do you need new episodes in HD, then random repeats in SD? How does that even make sense?
> 
> I have repeats of Supernatural. They are in boxes on my DVD shelf, collecting dust.


What other people watch/do never makes sense. Why do you need DVDs that you'll never watch?

Personally, I'm not as complicated as him, but I do have 2 season passes for The Simpsons. Both HD. 1 for the new episodes on Fox & 1 for the repeats on FXX. They are at different priorities. So now, either new episodes are at the lowest priority with the repeats or repeats are at a higher priority causing conflicts.


----------



## southerndoc

Sixto said:


> Downloaded. I like the progress bar within a group.


Absolutely love this. Let's me know which shows I've watched when I have a list of shows that I haven't watched.

Margret, there is a bug in the OnePass: I have the option selected to not include videos that need to be rented or purchased. However, I'm still seeing a list of episodes (primarily kid shows like Bubble Guppies, etc.) that send me to Amazon Prime to purchase (it doesn't allow me to stream for free even though I'm an Amazon Prime member).


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## CoxInPHX

Did this update Fix the Upcoming Episodes listing non-existent wrong channels?

I can't seem to find any at the moment.

I assume it is/was a TiVo backend issue, so I am just curious.


----------



## ajwees41

TiVoMargret said:


> Premiere boxes won't start updating until next week. (There is more coordination/timing needed with the transition to the new Amazon app.)


Is there anything besides linking the tivo premieres to Amazon for streaming to be enabled once the premieres get the new app?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DeltaOne

My Roamio updated last evening. 

I forced a connection then did a restart. The restart worried me, because as the TiVo came back on the top half of the picture on my TV was normal (I could see the TiVo graphics), then it was black from the mid-point on down. I didn't know if the TiVo was crashed/hung or was installing the update.

I played it safe, decided to wait ten or fifteen minutes before doing anything (like power cycling the TiVo off/on). About six or eight minutes later I reentered the room and the on-screen display was normal, the TiVo was installing the update. A few minutes later the TiVo was updated and ready to go.

I forced a connection and restarted one of my two Minis, but it didn't get the update. Got up this morning and it now has the update -- I guess it updated over night. Haven't checked the other Mini yet.

ps...before updating the Roamio last night I discovered my SeasonPass for The Americans was not scheduled to record. After the update process the show was scheduled to record (as a OnePass). I don't know if the forced connection, update or just the restart fixed the issue.


----------



## DeltaOne

nooneuknow said:


> No matter how I explain it, I'm sure it won't make sense, or will draw more questioning of the sanity of doing so.


We record all our shows. Everything. I don't see any reason not to record everything, and a quick check of the To Do list reminds me what is on each evening.

When talking about DVRs with family and friends, and I mention my record everything strategy -- they often look at me like I'm crazy. Responses vary from "that makes it so complicated" to "I don't have time to set that up" to "why would anyone want to record every show they watch."

Everyone uses their DVR differently.


----------



## pautler

rainwater said:


> If that is true then that is extremely confusing given there is now 2 options that define recording new episodes and they are under different options. So there are now:
> 
> Start From: New Episodes Only
> Record: New Only
> 
> This seems extremely ambiguous to me.


I believe the first one only controls the behavior of the streaming options that are displayed (for example, will it show all past seasons, or will it start with season X and newer, or will it show only new episodes) and the second one controls the behavior of what the DVD records from cable/antenna.

-Joe


----------



## reneg

Is there a way to turn on and off forced grouping in My Shows? If I have only one show in a series recorded, it is not grouped, so no folder. If I have two or more shows recorded, they are grouped and if I navigate into the series folder, I have access to Onepass features. If I only have one show recorded, I have no access to Onepass for that series in My Shows. Seems inconsistent to me.

I see in the picture posted by Joe Siegler (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10386667#post10386667 ) that he has folders for series with only one show, I don't see that. All my series with single shows appear like "Saturday Night Live" in Joe's picture.

There is no C button function in My Shows to group or not group. Seems like My Shows should have the C button to force grouping or not, but for one or more shows, and not two or more shows like the older Tivos, so you can get access to Onepass features from My Shows in a consistent manner.


----------



## Sixto

We only have one situation of a show with two Season Passes. The Big Bang Theory on my wife's Roamio. It's setup on CBS to only record NEW, so that we always have the last 5 NEW episodes from the current season. We then also have a 2nd Season Pass on TBS to always have a collection of 10 older episodes which continually get refreshed with the many re-runs each day. There's many times when there's nothing on that we watch some of the older episodes just to pass the time.

I also record the NEW CBS episodes on my Roamio, so thinking that we'll just do the old stuff on her's, and the new episodes on mine.

I guess the other option would be to let it record both on her's and just remember to mark KUID after each week's NEW episode, and delete it after we watch.


----------



## kbmb

reneg said:


> Is there a way to turn on and off forced grouping in My Shows? If I have only one show in a series recorded, it is not grouped, so no folder. If I have two or more shows recorded, they are grouped and if I navigate into the series folder, I have access to Onepass features. If I only have one show recorded, I have no access to Onepass for that series in My Shows. Seems inconsistent to me.
> 
> I see in the picture posted by Joe Siegler (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10386667#post10386667 ) that he has folders for series with only one show, I don't see that. All my series with single shows appear like "Saturday Night Live" in Joe's picture.
> 
> There is no C button function in My Shows to group or not group. Seems like My Shows should have the C button to force grouping or not, but for one or more shows, and not two or more shows like the older Tivos, so you can get access to Onepass features from My Shows in a consistent manner.


The only time you see a group with 1 show in it is when you set the OnePass to include streaming as well. Then it's a group (even with no shows recorded) so you can see all the streaming options.

You can access OnePass on a single show (not in a group) by clicking into the show details (not pressing play, press select).

-Kevin


----------



## bradleys

Sixto said:


> We only have one situation of a show with two Season Passes. The Big Bang Theory on my wife's Roamio. It's setup on CBS to only record NEW, so that we always have the last 5 NEW episodes from the current season. We then also have a 2nd Season Pass on TBS to always have a collection of 10 older episodes which continually get refreshed with the many re-runs each day. There's many times when there's nothing on that we watch some of the older episodes just to pass the time.
> 
> I also record the NEW CBS episodes on my Roamio, so thinking that we'll just do the old stuff on her's, and the new episodes on mine.
> 
> I guess the other option would be to let it record both on her's and just remember to mark KUID after each week's NEW episode, and delete it after we watch.


Wouldn't you get exactly what you have today, just in a single folder arranged in season order?

I guess you loose the ability to set distinct KUID / KUSN for each SP - but that is really the biggest change.

And you can still creat a WishList.


----------



## reneg

kbmb said:


> The only time you see a group with 1 show in it is when you set the OnePass to include streaming as well. Then it's a group (even with no shows recorded) so you can see all the streaming options.
> 
> You can access OnePass on a single show (not in a group) by clicking into the show details (not pressing play, press select).
> 
> -Kevin


So all I have to do is change ~200 season passes to include streaming. Ugh.

I saw that you can drill down into Onepass from the show details, my comments were directed towards UI navigation inconsistency.


----------



## kbmb

reneg said:


> So all I have to do is change ~200 season passes to include streaming. Ugh.
> 
> I saw that you can drill down into Onepass from the show details, my comments were directed towards UI navigation inconsistency.


I wouldn't call it an inconsistency.....in both cases you have to go into the folder or show to get access to the OnePass info. Neither let's you access the OnePass details from the root level of the menu (although that would be nice).

-Kevin


----------



## jcthorne

I do not understand what is supposed be happening when pressing the B button for sort order in groups. The Options are DATE, SEASON, NEWEST. What is the difference supposed to be between DATE and NEWEST? They seem to display the same order. There is no option for Name order. SEASON just seems to reverse the date order, placing the newest at the bottom rather than the top that has been Tivo SAP since the begining of time. Now some groups are newest up top, some are oldest up top and no way to sort by name. Makes finding things diffecult.

Also, recordings pushed to the tivo with proper metadata do not group with other episodes of the same series.

I can report that the mind server metatdata issue that prevented use of push to transfer videos has reverted back to earlier behavior. IE no wrong metadata and thus misnamed recordings but also not grouping with others and not applying meta data.


----------



## bradleys

reneg said:


> So all I have to do is change ~200 season passes to include streaming. Ugh.
> 
> I saw that you can drill down into Onepass from the show details, my comments were directed towards UI navigation inconsistency.


Why would you do that? Obviously the bulk of your 200 SP's will not have streaming content (at least that you are interested in)

Aside - I always wonder about people who have that many SP's... Are they all still relevant? I have 53 SP/WL and while I try to keep on top of it, I am sure a dozen or more are from dead content.


----------



## jrtroo

I could see things growing that large with a lot of users or a lot of repeated lists for various channels.


----------



## Sixto

bradleys said:


> Wouldn't you get exactly what you have today, just in a single folder arranged in season order?
> 
> I guess you loose the ability to set distinct KUID / KUSN for each SP - but that is really the biggest change.
> 
> And you can still creat a WishList.


Thinking not if I limit the number of shows, which we do today. If there are many re-runs on TBS, it would wipe out the NEW on CBS.


----------



## reneg

kbmb said:


> I wouldn't call it an inconsistency.....in both cases you have to go into the folder or show to get access to the OnePass info. Neither let's you access the OnePass details from the root level of the menu (although that would be nice).
> 
> -Kevin


I guess we have different interpretations.

I tried including streaming for one of my season passes where I have one recording already in My shows, and a folder did not appear for that show when I backed out and went into My Shows again. I also setup a Onepass for a show that I have no recordings, and it did create a folder with all the seasons and episodes, so that's cool.


----------



## joewom

jcthorne said:


> I do not understand what is supposed be happening when pressing the B button for sort order in groups. The Options are DATE, SEASON, NEWEST. What is the difference supposed to be between DATE and NEWEST? They seem to display the same order. There is no option for Name order. SEASON just seems to reverse the date order, placing the newest at the bottom rather than the top that has been Tivo SAP since the begining of time. Now some groups are newest up top, some are oldest up top and no way to sort by name. Makes finding things diffecult.
> 
> Also, recordings pushed to the tivo with proper metadata do not group with other episodes of the same series.
> 
> I can report that the mind server metatdata issue that prevented use of push to transfer videos has reverted back to earlier behavior. IE no wrong metadata and thus misnamed recordings but also not grouping with others and not applying meta data.


Newest is probably when the show aired originally and date is when recorded. Well that makes sense to me.


----------



## generaltso

jcthorne said:


> I do not understand what is supposed be happening when pressing the B button for sort order in groups. The Options are DATE, SEASON, NEWEST. What is the difference supposed to be between DATE and NEWEST?


DATE will list them in the order they were recorded with the most recent recording on the top. NEWEST will list them in sequential season and episode order with the most current episode at the top. SEASON is the same as NEWEST except that it reverses the order (most current episode at the bottom).


----------



## reneg

bradleys said:


> Why would you do that? Obviously the bulk of your 200 SP's will not have streaming content (at least that you are interested in)
> 
> Aside - I always wonder about people who have that many SP's... Are they all still relevant? I have 53 SP/WL and while I try to keep on top of it, I am sure a dozen or more are from dead content.


The simple answer is that there are multiple users on my Tivo that use the Tivo in different ways.

All of my SP's are still relevant, I cull the list frequently. Again with multiple users using the same Tivo (and Minis), 200 active, current SP's is 'normal'.


----------



## generaltso

Sixto said:


> Thinking not if I limit the number of shows, which we do today. If there are many re-runs on TBS, it would wipe out the NEW on CBS.


This is why we simply need two "Keep Until" settings per OnePass. I want to set new episodes to Keep Until I Delete and repeats to Keep 5 Episodes. To be fair, this functionality didn't exist before OnePass either, but I've been requesting it for years.

My kids watch a lot of repeats of their shows. Some of those shows are on a dozen times a day (or more). I don't want a million of those shows on the TiVo, so I set the Season Pass (now OnePass) to only keep 5. Those 5 get refreshed every day. Every once in a while, there's a new episode, which usually airs at 8pm. Without separate Keep Until settings, the new episode is already gone by the time the kids get home from school the next day. If I change the OnePass to Keep Until I Delete, I will quickly end up with hundreds of repeats that need to manually be deleted.

Since theses shows are typically on the same channel, multiple season passes has never been a solution for me. The only solution would be to allow different "Keep Until" settings based on whether an episode is new or not.


----------



## jcthorne

joewom said:


> Newest is probably when the show aired originally and date is when recorded. Well that makes sense to me.


If that is what it's supposed to be doing, its not.


----------



## jcthorne

I had high hopes that this update with 1P and the new MyShows list would bring all episodes together. It does not.

Episodes recorded by the tivo and episodes transferred from Tivo Desktop (or pytivo) do not group together. So you end up with two groups in the MyShows list with the same series name and some episodes in each. Pretty useless.

Yeah its great that they can pull in episodes from streaming sources but Tivo cannot even handle recordings on its own drive? or sourced from its own software?

At least the transfers work again even if they do not sort and group correctly.


----------



## jrtroo

did you test this with newly transferred shows? I wonder if there are new codes so that pre/post transfers group differently.


----------



## jcthorne

Yes, tested with shows transferred today. Its broken.

Perhaps they need to update Tivo Desktop to send the required information. 

Naa, they will never update Tivo Desktop again.....


----------



## bradleys

jcthorne said:


> I had high hopes that this update with 1P and the new MyShows list would bring all episodes together. It does not.
> 
> Episodes recorded by the tivo and episodes transferred from Tivo Desktop (or pytivo) do not group together. So you end up with two groups in the MyShows list with the same series name and some episodes in each. Pretty useless.
> 
> Yeah its great that they can pull in episodes from streaming sources but Tivo cannot even handle recordings on its own drive? or sourced from its own software?
> 
> At least the transfers work again even if they do not sort and group correctly.


I am pretty convinced that they have all but abandoned the remote storage solution, so it doesn't suprise me that they didn't code for that situation. If they ever implement an MRS desktop solution I expect it would be integrated into the hierarchy.

Are you moving .tivo content or is this converted content.

With the bigger drives I don't archive content any longer - I still use the repository for my personal movie library.


----------



## jcthorne

bradleys said:


> I am pretty convinced that they have all but abandoned the remote storage solution, so it doesn't suprise me that they didn't code for that situation. If they ever implement an MRS desktop solution I expect it would be integrated into the hierarchy.
> 
> Are you moving .tivo content or is this converted content.
> 
> With the bigger drives I don't archive content any longer - I still use the repository for my personal movie library.


I have now tried both .tivo and .mp4 files. Same behavior.


----------



## rainwater

So, after a little bit of playing with it this is what I have seen:

- Making any change to a OnePass screws up the sort order in My Shows. Shows will randomly be shown in My Shows but if you hit B twice it will go back to sorting by date even though it was already set to that option.
- Changing a show to include streaming options sets the date for the folder in My Shows to the current date. This means it goes to the top of the list in My Shows. This pretty much keeps me from even using the new option because every single show will show the current date and sorting will be impossible. I rely on the order of My Shows to know what I need to watch. I have way too many shows to wait another 6 - 12 months for the dates to get set right after the next airing of all of my shows.
- "Start from" makes no sense to me. What does "New Episodes only" mean? How does that affect the Record option if I have that set to "New only".
- I appreciate all of the OnePass options but I think for most people it will be completely overwhelming just to add a series recording. TiVo should of found a way to hide most of the new options by default.


----------



## generaltso

jcthorne said:


> I have now tried both .tivo and .mp4 files. Same behavior.


I haven't tried it with TiVo Desktop, but when I transfer shows using pyTiVo they seem to be grouping properly.


----------



## moyekj

rainwater said:


> - Making any change to a OnePass screws up the sort order in My Shows.


 That is a HUGE bug IMO and can't believe it made it out of beta that way. I also rely heavily on Sort By Date in MyShows and would be really upset if that got broken. I really hope that is fixed before the new software makes it to any of my boxes (I stayed away from priority list this time). Please email Margret about this to be sure she's aware of it.


----------



## rainwater

moyekj said:


> That is a HUGE bug IMO and can't believe it made it out of beta that way. I also rely heavily on Sort By Date in MyShows and would be really upset if that got broken. I really hope that is fixed before the new software makes it to any of my boxes (I stayed away from priority list this time). Please email Margret about this to be sure she's aware of it.


Yes, it seems like that should of easily been caught in testing. However, at least there is a work around for now. For me, the biggest issue is adding streaming content to a OnePass sets the last recorded date to today's date. This breaks every single one of my shows from sorting correctly forever (or at least until it records a new episode). When you have 30 season passes sorted in My Shows with the last recorded date of today, then it is useless. There is no workaround for that. I think for now, I will just not use the new streaming options in OnePass. Maybe they will fix the sorting for the Summer/Fall update but it seems OnePass is pretty poorly implemented in the current state.


----------



## jcthorne

generaltso said:


> I haven't tried it with TiVo Desktop, but when I transfer shows using pyTiVo they seem to be grouping properly.


Push or Pull?

Pull always has grouped and still does but has to be initiated from the tivo. Hard to do from the PC end.

Push has been broken since the last tivo update. They tried to apply metadata to the incoming file and it broke push completely. Rather than fix it, they went back to the previous where it does not apply any logic to the incoming file and just stores it separately from other recordings of the same series.

As I said, the new MyShows functionality is broken for recordings stored on the tivo itself.


----------



## generaltso

jcthorne said:


> Push or Pull?
> 
> Pull always has grouped and still does but has to be initiated from the tivo. Hard to do from the PC end.


Pull. Sorry, I misunderstood.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

CoxInPHX said:


> What did the update do if you already had more than one Season Pass?
> 
> Did it delete the others or combine them?


For me it turned the show's highest priority season pass into an "all channel" pass, causing the recording of many unwanted episodes and possible tuner conflicts because my priorities for recording were messed with.

I noticed another issue with this new paradigm... I was setting up a OnePass last night for a show that has new episodes on CBS, and reruns on a few other channels. One of the other channels is a broadcast TV subchannel in SD. Unfortunately, that SD channel broadcasts a SD version of an episode one hour before the HD channel airs the same episode. Since it was already recorded (albeit in SD), the HD version is not recorded. 

I never had that problem when I could specify the channel for each season pass or, conversely, a season pass for each channel.

imo, having OnePass as only being able to record one channel or all channels is a significant regression in functionality. I now have to do manually what the software used to do, i.e., rummage through the guide and select the shows that I want to record, dealing with lack-of-tuner conflicts and scheduling changes by the channel.

I like the new ability to work with streaming in the OnePass, but not nearly as much as I dislike the loss of very significant functionality from the way SeasonPass had worked.


----------



## NYHeel

DeltaOne said:


> We record all our shows. Everything. I don't see any reason not to record everything, and a quick check of the To Do list reminds me what is on each evening.
> 
> When talking about DVRs with family and friends, and I mention my record everything strategy -- they often look at me like I'm crazy. Responses vary from "that makes it so complicated" to "I don't have time to set that up" to "why would anyone want to record every show they watch."
> 
> Everyone uses their DVR differently.


Really? I don't know anyone who uses their DVR any differently than what you describe. Sure people will still watch non-sports live occasionally, but everyone I know records everything (non-sports) they watch.


----------



## generaltso

NYHeel said:


> Really? I don't know anyone who uses their DVR any differently than what you describe. Sure people will still watch non-sports live occasionally, but everyone I know records everything (non-sports) they watch.


Agreed. Isn't that the whole point of a DVR? How else would people use it? Record some shows and make a point of remembering when the other shows are on so they can be watched live? I don't know anyone who does that. Even if there was a desire to watch a show live, it would still be recorded (and probably start watching with a 15 minute delay to be able to FF through the commercials).


----------



## DeltaOne

generaltso said:


> Agreed. Isn't that the whole point of a DVR? How else would people use it?


I agree! I thought that attitude was bizarre, but I've heard it from more than one family/friend. Probably the same people that always had 12:00 flashing on their VCR!


----------



## RoyK

NYHeel said:


> Really? I don't know anyone who uses their DVR any differently than what you describe. Sure people will still watch non-sports live occasionally, but everyone I know records everything (non-sports) they watch.


I record sports also and start watching 1/2 to 1 hour after the game starts. Can skip over commercials and half time crap.


----------



## NYHeel

Sixto said:


> We only have one situation of a show with two Season Passes. The Big Bang Theory on my wife's Roamio. It's setup on CBS to only record NEW, so that we always have the last 5 NEW episodes from the current season. We then also have a 2nd Season Pass on TBS to always have a collection of 10 older episodes which continually get refreshed with the many re-runs each day. There's many times when there's nothing on that we watch some of the older episodes just to pass the time.
> 
> I also record the NEW CBS episodes on my Roamio, so thinking that we'll just do the old stuff on her's, and the new episodes on mine.
> 
> I guess the other option would be to let it record both on her's and just remember to mark KUID after each week's NEW episode, and delete it after we watch.


Why not just record more shows so you actually have stuff to watch. That's what I do. I never have time to watch reruns because I always have more new stuff to watch.


----------



## NYHeel

RoyK said:


> I record sports also and start watching 1/2 to 1 hour after the game starts. Can skip over commercials and half time crap.


I do as well. But I at least understand those that always want to be live in sports.


----------



## NYHeel

generaltso said:


> This is why we simply need two "Keep Until" settings per OnePass. I want to set new episodes to Keep Until I Delete and repeats to Keep 5 Episodes. To be fair, this functionality didn't exist before OnePass either, but I've been requesting it for years.
> 
> My kids watch a lot of repeats of their shows. Some of those shows are on a dozen times a day (or more). I don't want a million of those shows on the TiVo, so I set the Season Pass (now OnePass) to only keep 5. Those 5 get refreshed every day. Every once in a while, there's a new episode, which usually airs at 8pm. Without separate Keep Until settings, the new episode is already gone by the time the kids get home from school the next day. If I change the OnePass to Keep Until I Delete, I will quickly end up with hundreds of repeats that need to manually be deleted.
> 
> Since theses shows are typically on the same channel, multiple season passes has never been a solution for me. The only solution would be to allow different "Keep Until" settings based on whether an episode is new or not.


This would be a really nice solution. Plus it would quiet all those yelling and screaming about losing all of their rerun season passes.


----------



## NYHeel

WorldBandRadio said:


> For me it turned the show's highest priority season pass into an "all channel" pass, causing the recording of many unwanted episodes and possible tuner conflicts because my priorities for recording were messed with.
> 
> I noticed another issue with this new paradigm... I was setting up a OnePass last night for a show that has new episodes on CBS, and reruns on a few other channels. One of the other channels is a broadcast TV subchannel in SD. Unfortunately, that SD channel broadcasts a SD version of an episode one hour before the HD channel airs the same episode. Since it was already recorded (albeit in SD), the HD version is not recorded.
> 
> I never had that problem when I could specify the channel for each season pass or, conversely, a season pass for each channel.
> 
> imo, having OnePass as only being able to record one channel or all channels is a significant regression in functionality. I now have to do manually what the software used to do, i.e., rummage through the guide and select the shows that I want to record, dealing with lack-of-tuner conflicts and scheduling changes by the channel.
> 
> I like the new ability to work with streaming in the OnePass, but not nearly as much as I dislike the loss of very significant functionality from the way SeasonPass had worked.


Take the SD channel out of your channels I receive list. Then it won't record from that channel.


----------



## NYHeel

Quick question. Let's assume I'm trying to catch up on a show so I've set the OnePass to record new and repeats. I assume there's a way to tell the Onepass that you watched an episode (either from streaming or because it recorded and you watched and deleted it). If that's the case would the OnePass still record those episodes you told it you watched already? I hope not.


----------



## moonscape

I'm unhappy about losing the C option to ungroup in My Shows. I have a lot of wish lists, and when I want to find a particular movie or see what was recorded long ago, I would disable groups and sort by name or date to find. Now I can't see what my oldest recordings are - or search for a particular movie by name.

Dang!


----------



## bradleys

NYHeel said:


> Quick question. Let's assume I'm trying to catch up on a show so I've set the OnePass to record new and repeats. I assume there's a way to tell the Onepass that you watched an episode (either from streaming or because it recorded and you watched and deleted it). If that's the case would the OnePass still record those episodes you told it you watched already? I hope not.


Hmm ... You want to set OP to record new and repeats. Then once e you watch a show and delete it you are hoping that at anytime in the future tivo should ignore that episode as from being captured again - ever...

I think it is safe to say it doesn't work that way and I also think with that type of functionality users would want to edit this permanent do not record list.


----------



## NYHeel

bradleys said:


> Hmm ... You want to set OP to record new and repeats. Then once e you watch a show and delete it you are hoping that at anytime in the future tivo should ignore that episode as from being captured again - ever...
> 
> I think it is safe to say it doesn't work that way and I also think with that type of functionality users would want to edit this permanent do not record list.


Then how else do you catch up on a show? Isn't that one of the main points of OP? You tell it to record old shows but have some control over its recordings.

I'm pretty sure you can at least do this by season in the OP settings. If you tell the OP to start at Season 2, hopefully it won't record any Season 1 episodes even if you have it set to record repeats. I'm only adding the ability to tell the OP that I already watched Season 2 Episode 1 so don't record it. Based on what I've read I thought this was possible.


----------



## JWhites

TiVoMargret said:


> Premiere boxes won't start updating until next week. (There is more coordination/timing needed with the transition to the new Amazon app.)


What time next week? It's definitely next week though right?


----------



## Diana Collins

NYHeel said:


> Then how else do you catch up on a show? Isn't that one of the main points of OP? You tell it to record old shows but have some control over its recordings.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can at least do this by season in the OP settings. If you tell the OP to start at Season 2, hopefully it won't record any Season 1 episodes even if you have it set to record repeats. I'm only adding the ability to tell the OP that I already watched Season 2 Episode 1 so don't record it. Based on what I've read I thought this was possible.


If you RECORD the episode (i.e. it was on a cable or broadcast channel) then I would expect the normal "don't record again" behavior to apply. But if you watch an episode from, say, Hulu and that episode then appears on a cable channel, then I would expect that it WOULD record it since the TiVo didn't record the episode before.


----------



## FitzAusTex

I'm probably really going to like the OnePass ability to add streaming shows to My Shows.

That being said, I can tell that I already dislike the loss of multiple season passes for the same title. It is wreaking havoc on my former sports season passes. One example is "PGA Tour Golf" that I had SPs for on nbc and cbs. The two SPs are now one OP, and my To Do list is picking up many, many unwanted episodes from Golf Channel. I know this is going to be a problem with just about any sports I watch, and make it way more difficult. Just wait till we're in baseball and football season... 

I'm now going to have to babysit my Guide and To Do list way more than I want to. 

So, yeah, the streaming stuff is wanted, but the most important part of my tivo is recording from cable TV. One step forward, two steps back...


----------



## bradleys

NYHeel said:


> Then how else do you catch up on a show? Isn't that one of the main points of OP? You tell it to record old shows but have some control over its recordings.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can at least do this by season in the OP settings. If you tell the OP to start at Season 2, hopefully it won't record any Season 1 episodes even if you have it set to record repeats. I'm only adding the ability to tell the OP that I already watched Season 2 Episode 1 so don't record it. Based on what I've read I thought this was possible.


Absolutely, if you start at season 2, I would expect that you would only get season 2 and forward. If you then delete a show from season 2 and it pops up again as a repeat 8 months later - I would expect that yes, it will be recorded again. (Set to new and reruns)

As I said, the functionality you recommend is interesting - but if you are placing individual episodes on a permanently do not record again list, then you would need to be able to remove things from that list... Don't you think?


----------



## RoyK

FitzAusTex said:


> I'm probably really going to like the OnePass ability to add streaming shows to My Shows.
> 
> That being said, I can tell that I already dislike the loss of multiple season passes for the same title. It is wreaking havoc on my former sports season passes. One example is "PGA Tour Golf" that I had SPs for on nbc and cbs. The two SPs are now one OP, and my To Do list is picking up many, many unwanted episodes from Golf Channel. I know this is going to be a problem with just about any sports I watch, and make it way more difficult. Just wait till we're in baseball and football season...
> 
> I'm now going to have to babysit my Guide and To Do list way more than I want to.
> 
> So, yeah, the streaming stuff is wanted, but the most important part of my tivo is recording from cable TV. One step forward, two steps back...


Yep. The DVR functionality has been seriously corrupted. I for one do not share TiVo's view that the users are too stupid, eh I mean that it would be '' too complicated '' for users to handle multiple SPs which we have been doing for years along with the added functionality of streaming video. What I bought is a digital video recorder not a souped up Rocu. Removing functionality and then suggesting manual work arounds that at best poorly replaces the removed functionality really stinks.


----------



## reneg

I tried pulling two shows from different series that already had some shows on the Tivo already. The newer show grouped with the other shows in the folder and showed up in the correct position in the season/episode list in My Shows. The older show grouped with the other shows in the folder, however it did not show up in the correct position in the season/episode list. It was listed at the bottom.

I didn't have a lot of time to play with it, but I suspect that programId in the metadata allowed it to position correctly because the older show did not have a programId in the metadata. I'll play with it more tonight.


----------



## NYHeel

bradleys said:


> Absolutely, if you start at season 2, I would expect that you would only get season 2 and forward. If you then delete a show from season 2 and it pops up again as a repeat 8 months later - I would expect that yes, it will be recorded again. (Set to new and reruns)
> 
> As I said, the functionality you recommend is interesting - but if you are placing individual episodes on a permanently do not record again list, then you would need to be able to remove things from that list... Don't you think?


The permanently do not record list is based on the episodes I've told the OP that I watched. The same way I tell it that I watched it, I could remove that status by saying mark it as unwatched. Of course, once I finish the season, I just change the start from season setting in the OP and I don't need to worry about that past season anymore.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Yep. The DVR functionality has been seriously corrupted.


Just a tad apocalyptic, think?


----------



## Dan203

While it doesn't really effect me I'm really surprised that they eliminated the ability to set up multiple SPs for the same show. There are several use cases for that ability, as mentioned above, and it's surprising they would eliminate it in favor of some new capabilites which people may not even find useful.

The other nits about the dates, sort, etc... are bugs they can fix, but this is a fundamental change to how the system works, and I'm surprised that they went this route. 

On the plus side this gets us one step closer to having user profiles. With the ability to only set a single 1P for each show it eliminates a lot of the complexity of dealing with multiple users. I'm still hoping their ultimate goal is to add this ability.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> Just a tad apocalyptic, think?


No. Completely corrupted would be.


----------



## Teeps

rainwater said:


> So, after a little bit of playing with it this is what I have seen:
> - Making any change to a OnePass screws up the sort order in My Shows. Shows will randomly be shown in My Shows but if you hit B twice it will go back to sorting by date even though it was already set to that option.
> - Changing a show to include streaming options sets the date for the folder in My Shows to the current date. This means it goes to the top of the list in My Shows. This pretty much keeps me from even using the new option because every single show will show the current date and sorting will be impossible. I rely on the order of My Shows to know what I need to watch. I have way too many shows to wait another 6 - 12 months for the dates to get set right after the next airing of all of my shows.
> - "Start from" makes no sense to me. What does "New Episodes only" mean? How does that affect the Record option if I have that set to "New only".
> - I appreciate all of the OnePass options but I think for most people it will be completely overwhelming just to add a series recording. TiVo should of found a way to hide most of the new options by default.


From what I've read in this thread, I am and don't even have the update yet.


NYHeel said:


> Really? I don't know anyone who uses their DVR any differently than what you describe. Sure people will still watch non-sports live occasionally, but everyone I know records everything (non-sports) they watch.


I don't watch anything live anymore; haven't since my first TiVo S1.



DeltaOne said:


> We record all our shows. Everything. I don't see any reason not to record everything, and a quick check of the To Do list reminds me what is on each evening.
> 
> When talking about DVRs with family and friends, and I mention my record everything strategy -- they often look at me like I'm crazy. Responses vary from "that makes it so complicated" to "I don't have time to set that up" to "why would anyone want to record every show they watch."
> 
> Everyone uses their DVR differently.


Agree.



RoyK said:


> I record sports also and start watching 1/2 to 1 hour after the game starts. Can skip over commercials and half time crap.


I do that too, but rarely. 


RoyK said:


> Yep. The DVR functionality has been seriously corrupted. I for one do not share TiVo's view that the users are too stupid, eh I mean that it would be '' too complicated '' for users to handle multiple SPs which we have been doing for years along with the added functionality of streaming video. What I bought is a digital video recorder not a souped up Rocu. Removing functionality and then suggesting manual work arounds that at best poorly replaces the removed functionality really stinks.


You may be right.


bradleys said:


> Just a tad apocalyptic, think?


Maybe.
From the tone of this thread, maybe not.
With any major change in program or service, the ability to "go back" should be included, or the ability to turn off.

I'm not looking forward to this update... but hey! I still have computers running XP; if it aint broke, I don't want it fixed.


----------



## L David Matheny

WorldBandRadio said:


> For me it turned the show's highest priority season pass into an "all channel" pass, causing the recording of many unwanted episodes and possible tuner conflicts because my priorities for recording were messed with.
> 
> I noticed another issue with this new paradigm... I was setting up a OnePass last night for a show that has new episodes on CBS, and reruns on a few other channels. One of the other channels is a broadcast TV subchannel in SD. Unfortunately, that SD channel broadcasts a SD version of an episode one hour before the HD channel airs the same episode. Since it was already recorded (albeit in SD), the HD version is not recorded.
> 
> I never had that problem when I could specify the channel for each season pass or, conversely, a season pass for each channel.
> 
> imo, having OnePass as only being able to record one channel or all channels is a significant regression in functionality. I now have to do manually what the software used to do, i.e., rummage through the guide and select the shows that I want to record, dealing with lack-of-tuner conflicts and scheduling changes by the channel.
> 
> I like the new ability to work with streaming in the OnePass, but not nearly as much as I dislike the loss of very significant functionality from the way SeasonPass had worked.


It sounds like my worst fears may be realized when this update is finally forced upon me. And I don't think "apocalyptic" is too strong a word for the mess this update is threatening to create. I hope TiVo can still fix things somehow before the general release.


----------



## PeterLAX

My TiVo updated this morning. Let me just add my name to the growing chorus of people who are disappointed that we can no longer have multiple season passes for one show.

Just like a previous poster, we watch Big Bang Theory at my house. Right now I have a Season Pass for "New Only" on CBS and another season pass for all of the repeats on TBS.

It's hard to fathom why TiVo would not recognize that there are users out there that would want to keep recording re-runs on TBS (and having them auto-delete), while also recording new episodes on CBS (and never having those new episodes delete until we watch them). This seems like a _basic_ TiVo functionality to me. The fact that this is now no longer possible is really disappointing. Why would TiVo introduce a feature that now risks you losing a new episode of a show you love before you have a chance to watch it?

The workaround of using "Suggestions" to record re-runs is lame. That's not what "Suggestions" means or was designed for. And, it flies in the face of the simple usability that you say you are striving for in your release notes.

If TiVo is aware that people love having multiple Season Passes for the same show (enough so that they post a workaround in their release notes), then why on earth would they alienate us by removing that functionality?

I love the suggestion that was made above that this could be solved with a simple new Season/OnePass menu item of:

-- When Recording New Episodes, Keep Until Either: (a) I Delete, or (b) Space is Needed
-- When Recording Repeat Episodes, Keep Until Either: (a) I Delete, or (b) Space is Needed

For me, introducing OnePass, while at the same time crippling a basic Season Pass functionality, gets a big :down::down::down:.


----------



## PeterLAX

RoyK said:


> What I bought is a digital video recorder not a souped up Rocu. Removing functionality and then suggesting manual work arounds that at best poorly replaces the removed functionality really stinks.


This. I agree wholeheartedly. If I wanted a streaming device, there are numerous other options out there. I own a TiVo for it's DVR capabilities. Why all this emphasis on pushing streaming into your "My Shows" list anyway? Has this been a hotly requested feature in the past?


----------



## Dan203

There does seem like they could add settings to the 1P to work around your specific use case. But that does not fix the priority issue others have listed. Having the First Run SP at high priority and the Reruns SP set to low priority is no longer possible.

Although with a 6 tuner DVR I never adjust the priority any more. I don't think I've ever even had all 6 tuners recording at the same time before. But I'm sure families, especially those that use Minis for live TV, run into tuner conflicts more frequently.


----------



## Dan203

PeterLAX said:


> Why all this emphasis on pushing streaming into your "My Shows" list anyway? Has this been a hotly requested feature in the past?


Actually it has. Can't please all of the people all of the time I guess.


----------



## rainwater

Dan203 said:


> Actually it has. Can't please all of the people all of the time I guess.


The problem is I don't think it is completely implemented in a way to be useful. For instance, being able to have a show you are going to binge watch in your My Shows seems logical and useful. But the way it is implemented, there is no way to track your progress when using streaming shows. It seems TiVo added this extremely powerful system for power users but they have seemingly made it much more complicated for the casual user (just look at the new sorting options that are used by default). I think they should of slowly implemented OnePass instead of throwing it all out there at once. Then they could of seen how users would actually use it before forcing these massive changes on users at once.


----------



## generaltso

rainwater said:


> there is no way to track your progress when using streaming shows.


I'm not sure I follow. You can track your progress by deleting an episode after you watch it.....the same way you would if it was a local recording. Am I missing something?


----------



## generaltso

Dan203 said:


> But I'm sure families, especially those that use Minis for live TV, run into tuner conflicts more frequently.


You are correct. Conflicts are definitely much less frequent than they used to be in my house, but they still happen a lot, mostly because of the multitude of kid shows that are recorded. That being said, I've never had a need to have multiple priorities for a single show. Separate Keep Until options based on whether an episode is new, however, has been my most requested feature for years.


----------



## rainwater

generaltso said:


> I'm not sure I follow. You can track your progress by deleting an episode after you watch it.....the same way you would if it was a local recording. Am I missing something?


Are you saying you have to delete a show to track progress? In the last year I can probably count on one hand how many times I have deleted a show. That is the whole point of having a TiVo. I let TiVo handle deleting shows. If you have to delete shows to track progress, then I guess I will not be able to do it any longer since I am not the only one using my TiVo.


----------



## takeagabu

generaltso said:


> I'm not sure I follow. You can track your progress by deleting an episode after you watch it.....the same way you would if it was a local recording. Am I missing something?


You can delete streaming episodes from the tivo. First thing I did was add onepasses for the netflix and amazon shows I watch. I was 2/3 of the way through Transparent, so I deleted all the episodes until that point.

I am assuming they disappear on their own once they are watched...


----------



## Dan203

rainwater said:


> Are you saying you have to delete a show to track progress? In the last year I can probably count on one hand how many times I have deleted a show. That is the whole point of having a TiVo. I let TiVo handle deleting shows. If you have to delete shows to track progress, then I guess I will not be able to do it any longer since I am not the only one using my TiVo.


You don't delete shows after you've watched them? Not sure that's an intended use case. TiVo deletes shows based on date so it seems this would cause older shows you may not have watched to get deleted in favor of newer shows you've already watched.


----------



## generaltso

rainwater said:


> Are you saying you have to delete a show to track progress?


I don't know if you HAVE to, but you said there's no way to track progress with shows that you stream, which I don't believe is true. I will track the progress with streamed shows the same way I've always tracked progress with recorded shows.....I'll delete them when I'm done watching them. How do you currently know which local recordings you've already watched if you don't delete them when you're done?


----------



## generaltso

takeagabu said:


> I am assuming they disappear on their own once they are watched...


I wouldn't assume that (though, admittedly, I haven't actually streamed a whole show through 1P yet). Local recordings don't disappear on their own once they're watched, so I'd assume that streamed shows won't either. In either case, you can just delete a show after you've watched it. This isn't new behavior.


----------



## DarcyM

I think TiVo is going to find out once this update hits general release that the loss of multiple season passes is a bigger issue to thier subscribers then they think. I think what we are seeing is some result of someone in marketing saying it has to be that way as the name implies. I suggest everyone call and complain if you used multiple season passes. Just don't let it slide and say it is we hat it is. Subscribers should have a say in it aince they are paying.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


----------



## takeagabu

generaltso said:


> I don't know if you HAVE to, but you said there's no way to track progress with shows that you stream, which I don't believe is true. I will track the progress with streamed shows the same way I've always tracked progress with recorded shows.....I'll delete them when I'm done watching them. How do you currently know which local recordings you've already watched if you don't delete them when you're done?


But it works so differently. Right after you finish something on your DVR, it prompts you to delete it, making it easy and intutive. Butif you have to manually delete it after you exit the app, it will not work as well, especially if you watch multiple episodes.

I am really hoping it is automatic. Otherwise it's a problem.


----------



## generaltso

takeagabu said:


> But it works so differently. Right after you finish something on your DVR, it prompts you to delete it, making it easy and intutive. Butif you have to manually delete it after you exit the app, it will not work as well, especially if you watch multiple episodes.
> 
> I am really hoping it is automatic. Otherwise it's a problem.


Okay, so it's not the fact that you have to delete an episode after watching that's irking people, it's that it doesn't pop up a prompt to delete it when you finish a streamed episode? I understand now, and agree that it would be much better to pop up the same prompt to delete a streamed episode that it does with a locally recorded episode. Since I haven't actually streamed a whole episode of anything yet, I can't actually say if it does or not. But judging by people's reaction here, I'm guessing it doesn't.


----------



## tatergator1

takeagabu said:


> I am really hoping it is automatic. Otherwise it's a problem.





generaltso said:


> But judging by people's reaction here, I'm guessing it doesn't.


I finished one streaming episode over my lunch break. It is not automatic, at least not with Amazon Prime.


----------



## atmuscarella

DarcyM said:


> I think TiVo is going to find out once this update hits general release that the loss of multiple season passes is a bigger issue to thier subscribers then they think. I think what we are seeing is some result of someone in marketing saying it has to be that way as the name implies. I suggest everyone call and complain if you used multiple season passes. Just don't let it slide and say it is we hat it is. Subscribers should have a say in it aince they are paying.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


I would think TiVo already knows how many people had multiple season passes for the same show or at least could have known.


----------



## bradleys

NYHeel said:


> The permanently do not record list is based on the episodes I've told the OP that I watched. The same way I tell it that I watched it, I could remove that status by saying mark it as unwatched. Of course, once I finish the season, I just change the start from season setting in the OP and I don't need to worry about that past season anymore.


Okay, so the do not record list would be keyed to the specific OP. If you deleted the OP it would clear any effected DNR settings.

Interesting...

Do you think this would be confusing, people wondering why a specific show didnt record when it was obviously captured in the OP? Say my wife deleted it and I am expecting to see it come back "next week"?


----------



## generaltso

tatergator1 said:


> I finished one streaming episode over my lunch break. It is not automatic, at least not with Amazon Prime.


Just to be clear, deleting a show after watching it was never automatic. But it's made easier for recorded shows by popping up a prompt asking the user if the show should be deleted. Automatic deleting is not what's missing from streaming. It's that prompt that's missing.


----------



## tatergator1

DarcyM said:


> I think TiVo is going to find out once this update hits general release that the loss of multiple season passes is a bigger issue to thier subscribers then they think.


You can be sure Tivo knows exactly how many multi-SP for one show households there are. They had to design the database transition during the software update to absorb multiple SP's into a single OP. There are what, about 20 people complaining about it on this forum, which is a very small subset of Tivo users, power-users at that. I would say that's not a safe assumption.


----------



## tatergator1

generaltso said:


> Just to be clear, deleting a show after watching it was never automatic. But it's made easier for recorded shows by popping up a prompt asking the user if the show should be deleted. Automatic deleting is not what's missing from streaming. It's that prompt that's missing.


Fair enough, but implementing a prompt is not as straight-forward with the streaming services. With Amazon Prime, it launches you to the episode page, where you hit "Watch Now". After it completes, it dumps you back into the Amazon App in the episode list, highlighting the next episode to start watching. If you're binging, you're just going to hit Watch Now, not exit the Amazon App back to Tivo, to be prompted to delete, then pick the next episode and reload the Amazon app.

The OnePass change requires that users take initiative to delete what they've watched from the OnePass list if they want to use the list as a method for tracking what they watched. It is what it is.


----------



## NYHeel

bradleys said:


> Okay, so the do not record list would be keyed to the specific OP. If you deleted the OP it would clear any effected DNR settings.
> 
> Interesting...
> 
> Do you think this would be confusing, people wondering why a specific show didnt record when it was obviously captured in the OP? Say my wife deleted it and I am expecting to see it come back "next week"?


I don't think so. Of course multiple users complicates all of these features and that's why TiVo should implement profiles but I don't think that's enough of a reason to not bother. Think of how a TV show tracker app might work. The OP combines that feature with the recording feature. It only records shows that you haven't watched yet. It seems to be able to do that already based on the season start point. I'm just looking for the ability to add individual episode direction.

I did find this from TiVoMargret's comments on OnePass:


TivoMargret said:


> - If you don't want the entire series but only a few episodes or a season you missed, you can search for a show, view the episode list, and then from screen about a specific episode, either "Add to My Shows > Add this streaming video" or "Add to My Shows > Add Season 2 streaming videos". (Note: there is no way to record only Season 2 episodes. For recording, you can *start* from a specific season, but you can't exclude later seasons.)


----------



## JWhites

Dan203 said:


> Actually it has. Can't please all of the people all of the time I guess.


:up:


----------



## generaltso

tatergator1 said:


> Fair enough, but implementing a prompt is not as straight-forward with the streaming services.


Agreed, which I'm sure is why they didn't do it.



tatergator1 said:


> With Amazon Prime, it launches you to the episode page, where you hit "Watch Now". After it completes, it dumps you back into the Amazon App in the episode list, highlighting the next episode to start watching. If you're binging, you're just going to hit Watch Now, not exit the Amazon App back to Tivo, to be prompted to delete, then pick the next episode and reload the Amazon app.


I think the best we can hope for is that they'll add a delete prompt when you go back to your My Shows list after exiting the Amazon app. But that prompt would only apply to the episode you used to launch the Amazon app. It wouldn't know if you watched additional episodes while you were in the app.



tatergator1 said:


> The OnePass change requires that users take initiative to delete what they've watched from the OnePass list if they want to use the list as a method for tracking what they watched. It is what it is.


Agreed. It's not perfect, but it's not the end of the world. The original post I was responding to said that there is no way to track progress. I think we've established that is certainly not true.


----------



## andyf

moonscape said:


> I'm unhappy about losing the C option to ungroup in My Shows. I have a lot of wish lists, and when I want to find a particular movie or see what was recorded long ago, I would disable groups and sort by name or date to find. Now I can't see what my oldest recordings are - or search for a particular movie by name.
> 
> Dang!


+1

I always watch my shows oldest to newest. Now that's really not possible.


----------



## rainwater

generaltso said:


> Agreed. It's not perfect, but it's not the end of the world. The original post I was responding to said that there is no way to track progress. I think we've established that is certainly not true.


Sure it is true. Watch half of an episode on Netflix and tell me how that shows my progress in My Shows. The progress meter only shows for recorded shows. This means it is only partially implemented. The absence of the episode in My Shows is not a way to track shows. TiVo actually implemented a way in this release to track shows but they failed to make it actually work for all sources but 1.


----------



## generaltso

rainwater said:


> Sure it is true. Watch half of an episode on Netflix and tell me how that shows my progress in My Shows. The progress meter only shows for recorded shows. This means it is only partially implemented. The absence of the episode in My Shows is not a way to track shows. TiVo actually implemented a way in this release to track shows but they failed to make it actually work for all sources but 1.


I guess we should differentiate between tracking progress in a season versus tracking progress in a single episode. You're right about tracking progress of a single partially watched episode of a streaming show in My Shows. I guess if that's important to you, you should continue to track them in the Netflix app instead of My Shows. I don't see that changing unless the streaming providers' APIs specifically include a "partially watched" indicator that TiVo can use.


----------



## kbmb

rainwater said:


> Sure it is true. Watch half of an episode on Netflix and tell me how that shows my progress in My Shows. The progress meter only shows for recorded shows. This means it is only partially implemented. The absence of the episode in My Shows is not a way to track shows. *TiVo actually implemented a way in this release to track shows but they failed to make it actually work for all sources but 1.*


And that way only works for shows in groups. If you have a single show not in a group, you don't get the progress bar.

-Kevin


----------



## NorthAlabama

i'm hoping tivo will hear the disappointment of some users and implement changes in future releases - give 'em a chance. that said, i doubt the changes would have been made at all if there had been a logical way for tivo to keep the existing functionality. tivo knows as well as any company what happens when stuff is taken away.


----------



## Dan203

moonscape said:


> I'm unhappy about losing the C option to ungroup in My Shows. I have a lot of wish lists, and when I want to find a particular movie or see what was recorded long ago, I would disable groups and sort by name or date to find. Now I can't see what my oldest recordings are - or search for a particular movie by name.


You can still sort alphabetically, which would allow you to find a movie by name. You can also turn on the left hand column and add a movie filter to the list so that it only shows movies and then sort by date if you want.


----------



## Dan203

rainwater said:


> Sure it is true. Watch half of an episode on Netflix and tell me how that shows my progress in My Shows. The progress meter only shows for recorded shows. This means it is only partially implemented. The absence of the episode in My Shows is not a way to track shows. TiVo actually implemented a way in this release to track shows but they failed to make it actually work for all sources but 1.


The APIs for these other services may not offer up a progress for individual episodes. Also I wonder how they could handle this if the same episode was available from multiple sources? Where does it get the progress from in that case? Or what if you're not actively logged in to a specific service but you still have it checked on your list?


----------



## mrizzo80

I think OnePass functionality is terrific. Major enhancement to the product. :up:

A few requests:
*why does initiating an Amazon app recording take you to the landing page for the episode and not just start playing the episode (like Netflix). Maybe the Amazon API doesn't allow this? Or maybe Amazon needs to update the app to allow auto playing?

*I think having a setting for "preferred OTT provider" would be a good idea. If you have multiple providers for a given episode, clicking "Play" will arbitrarily choose the first provider (I assume based on alphabetical order). I prefer Netflix to Amazon Prime, so being able to set a global preference to use Netflix would be nice. This would be an "opt-in" setting - if you don't set it, it would just continue to do what it currently does. I'm aware of the fly-out if you drill into the Episode Detail screen.

*would like if they would implement Page Down/Page Up remote buttons to cycle through episodes if you are on the Episode Detail screen for a show within a group. We had this with the legacy software (pre-Premiere generation boxes). Pg Dn/Pg Up buttons currently do nothing on the Episode Detail screen. I think 1P makes episode scrolling capability a no-brainer.


----------



## Dan203

mrizzo80 said:


> *I think having a setting for "preferred OTT provider" would be a good idea. If you have multiple providers for a given episode, clicking "Play" will arbitrarily choose the first provider (I assume based on alphabetical order). I prefer Netflix to Amazon Prime, so being able to set a global preference to use Netflix would be nice. This would be an "opt-in" setting - if you don't set it, it would just continue to do what it currently does. I'm aware of the fly-out if you drill into the Episode Detail screen.


+1

The fact that Netflix has auto play and Amazon doesn't make this a must have.


----------



## mrizzo80

I think 20.4.6 finally corrected the bug that caused the following issue in certain shows when scrolling through the show's episode history. I think the issue was from Amazon data. Some shows had duplicates for nearly every episode.

Some Episode Title
Some Episode Title [HD]

You can see it illustrated here in the CES demo of OnePass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjqpW9P3viw#t=117


----------



## ajwees41

JWhites said:


> What time next week? It's definitely next week though right?


 I'm guessing if it's a week away from the roamios and mini it will be wednesday unless the kill it completely


----------



## Sixto

I've never used Wishlists before but thinking that will solve my wife's Big Bang Theory issue, which is the only show with more then one season pass. We'll setup a OnePass for new keep 5 on CBS, and a wishlist with the title for everything else to keep 10.


----------



## morac

I updated my Roamio Pro and I noticed during startup that the TiVo startup video stopped after 2 seconds. I thought that was odd so I played it again using the 0 shortcut and the same thing happened. 

Did anyone else lose their TiVo startup video or have it cut out after a few seconds after the update?


----------



## moonscape

Dan203 said:


> You can still sort alphabetically, which would allow you to find a movie by name. You can also turn on the left hand column and add a movie filter to the list so that it only shows movies and then sort by date if you want.


Thanks! I turned off the categories after that update and had totally forgotten about it! It works! A lot of my movies are in wish list categories (actors, directors, etc) so the the alpha didn't work once I couldn't switch out of groups. But - that left movie category is an even cleaner option. Wonderful.

Any workaround for the issue of finding oldest recordings? Besides kmttg ... ?


----------



## supasta

- Sorting by season and episode is amazing, and something I've yearned for since my S1 TiVo. 
- OnePass is great, so far. The mixing of shows available from both recordings and other sources is excellent. This will make Doctor Who marathons much more enjoyable. 
- Progress bars!
Me likey. Well done, TiVo.


----------



## tatergator1

morac said:


> I updated my Roamio Pro and I noticed during startup that the TiVo startup video stopped after 2 seconds. I thought that was odd so I played it again using the 0 shortcut and the same thing happened.
> 
> Did anyone else lose their TiVo startup video or have it cut out after a few seconds after the update?


I've not checked it again, but my intro video behaved the same way after update.


----------



## steinbch

morac said:


> I updated my Roamio Pro and I noticed during startup that the TiVo startup video stopped after 2 seconds. I thought that was odd so I played it again using the 0 shortcut and the same thing happened.
> 
> Did anyone else lose their TiVo startup video or have it cut out after a few seconds after the update?


Same for me.


----------



## Arcady

morac said:


> I updated my Roamio Pro and I noticed during startup that the TiVo startup video stopped after 2 seconds. I thought that was odd so I played it again using the 0 shortcut and the same thing happened.
> 
> Did anyone else lose their TiVo startup video or have it cut out after a few seconds after the update?


Intro video cut off after a few seconds on two Minis that I watched reboot after the update. I wasn't watching my Roamio when it rebooted.


----------



## heifer624

morac said:


> I updated my Roamio Pro and I noticed during startup that the TiVo startup video stopped after 2 seconds. I thought that was odd so I played it again using the 0 shortcut and the same thing happened.
> 
> Did anyone else lose their TiVo startup video or have it cut out after a few seconds after the update?


Oh, if only there were a way to delete that stupid looking startup video forever!


----------



## reneg

reneg said:


> I tried pulling two shows from different series that already had some shows on the Tivo already. The newer show grouped with the other shows in the folder and showed up in the correct position in the season/episode list in My Shows. The older show grouped with the other shows in the folder, however it did not show up in the correct position in the season/episode list. It was listed at the bottom.
> 
> I didn't have a lot of time to play with it, but I suspect that programId in the metadata allowed it to position correctly because the older show did not have a programId in the metadata. I'll play with it more tonight.


When I added programIds to metadata files for older shows, they showed up in the correct positions in the season/episode list when I pulled them from the Tivo.


----------



## RoyK

Sixto said:


> I've never used Wishlists before but thinking that will solve my wife's Big Bang Theory issue, which is the only show with more then one season pass. We'll setup a OnePass for new keep 5 on CBS, and a wishlist with the title for everything else to keep 10.


That will work but your Big Bang recordings will show up in two folders --- one for the SP and another for the SP with your CBS recordings in both of them. Just a small kluge when you are only doing it with one program. A gigantic mess if you do it with several.


----------



## morac

steinbch said:


> Same for me.


Okay so it sounds like it's not just me. That's "good" in that's it's not my box.

I tried contacting TiVo support chat at they told me to force a connection. When I mentioned others are seeing the same thing he replied that "TiVo is just beginning to track the update". He then said the connection should fix it and disconnected chat. Needless to say the connection didn't fix it.

It's a minor issue, disconcerting, but minor (unless you have kids who love the video). I hope that's the extent of the issues.

I did see a video "freeze" in that when I paused a video went into the settings menu and then zoomed and tried to play it wouldn't, but I managed to get it going by skipping ahead to the next mark. Not a great first few minutes of use, but nothing horrendous.


----------



## Arcady

The video file must be incomplete in the image they pushed down.

I would be totally fine if they removed it completely.


----------



## innocentfreak

bradleys said:


> Hmm ... You want to set OP to record new and repeats. Then once e you watch a show and delete it you are hoping that at anytime in the future tivo should ignore that episode as from being captured again - ever...
> 
> I think it is safe to say it doesn't work that way and I also think with that type of functionality users would want to edit this permanent do not record list.


This is what I keep hoping for also. I have season passes for various concert series like Unplugged and Storytellers and some for various standup. There are some episodes they reair a ton so every thirty days or so the same acts pop up.

The easiest way to let the user edit the list is to implement it in the episode guide screen. Similar to sites like Trakt.TV or even Pandora let me go in and mark which episodes or seasons I have seen on individual shows. You could add a shortcut called Series Guide Management which would let you easily jump in and out of shows you have episodes marked. You could even add advanced functionality like Pandora has where you can say you are sick of a song. The song is temporarily removed from the playlist for a set amount of time before it shows up again.

Also you could add a third option on the delete prompt at the end of the episode to mark watched, which would default to never record again, and delete. You could also have keep which doesn't flag the episode or delete and don't flag the episode watched.


----------



## HeadsUp7Up

@Tivo Margaret
Not sure if this is a bug or not but if power save mode is turned on and a tuner is in use by a mini the Roamio will still turn off. Can this be changed to allow a mini to keep the box in an "in use" state?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Philmatic

New screens! Bless the heavens!


----------



## uw69

sometimes I wish there was a do not update list!


----------



## Arcady

I'm loving the new OnePass options so far. Being able to group older shows by season is awesome. I had a folder with 150 episodes of "King of the Hill" in it, which was a complete mess because they were completely out of order, recorded over the years from at least 8 different channels on 3 different cable systems. Now I can see exactly what is in there, view them in order, and know which ones are missing at a glance. Excellent!

There are some odd things, like a show which only has one recorded episode having a folder after setting it back to recorded only. And no progress meter in the main "my shows" list for single copies of an episode (which otherwise looks to be a great way to see what shows my wife has already watched.)

One weird thing I found was that some shows that got recorded on another TiVo, and then were copied to the Roamio last year when I got it, do not appear to have season and episode numbers, so OnePass can't sort them. Maybe they never did, or maybe the info was lost when they got transferred. In any case, the problem made me notice they were old analog recordings that took about 3-4 times as much space as a recording of the same show from a digital channel, so they will just get re-recorded freshly.


----------



## morac

Arcady said:


> The video file must be incomplete in the image they pushed down.
> 
> I would be totally fine if they removed it completely.


I'm pretty sure the startup video isn't included in the software download. Since it never changes, there would be no reason to do so.

In older models it was actually stored on an unwritable part of the drive so it couldn't be updated. I'm not sure how it works now though.


----------



## morac

Any one know what would happen if the TiVo.com season pass manager is used to copy or move OnePasses? Somehow I doubt it would work.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

moonscape said:


> I'm unhappy about losing the C option to ungroup in My Shows. I have a lot of wish lists, and when I want to find a particular movie or see what was recorded long ago, I would disable groups and sort by name or date to find. Now I can't see what my oldest recordings are - or search for a particular movie by name.


How do you record movies and get Tivo to put them into a Group? Wouldn't recorded movies be listed individually and be able to be sorted alphabetically?



Dan203 said:


> You can still sort alphabetically, which would allow you to find a movie by name. You can also turn on the left hand column and add a movie filter to the list so that it only shows movies and then sort by date if you want.


Not a Tivo design problem per se and I'll live with it, but yesterday I could pull home movies/videos/ripped movies into a group by using the same seriesId in the metadata txt files. I could then turn off groups and sort them alphabetically. Now that we can no longer turn groups on/off, there's no longer any way to sort them alphabetically. I know the pull process wasn't specifically designed to work this way and I understand not wanting to turn groups off with all the new streaming episode data in them, but it worked yesterday and doesn't work today. It's just too bad there isn't a Name sort option in groups.


----------



## bantar

innocentfreak said:


> This is what I keep hoping for also. I have season passes for various concert series like Unplugged and Storytellers and some for various standup. There are some episodes they reair a ton so every thirty days or so the same acts pop up.
> 
> The easiest way to let the user edit the list is to implement it in the episode guide screen. Similar to sites like Trakt.TV or even Pandora let me go in and mark which episodes or seasons I have seen on individual shows. You could add a shortcut called Series Guide Management which would let you easily jump in and out of shows you have episodes marked. You could even add advanced functionality like Pandora has where you can say you are sick of a song. The song is temporarily removed from the playlist for a set amount of time before it shows up again.
> 
> Also you could add a third option on the delete prompt at the end of the episode to mark watched, which would default to never record again, and delete. You could also have keep which doesn't flag the episode or delete and don't flag the episode watched.


OnePass only helps when all of the content can be streamed, but if you're slowly collecting episodes, it completely misses the mark. I've described a possible solution for this here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10369230#post10369230 Wonder if it's similar to the trackt.tv model?


----------



## realityboy

Sixto said:


> I've never used Wishlists before but thinking that will solve my wife's Big Bang Theory issue, which is the only show with more then one season pass. We'll setup a OnePass for new keep 5 on CBS, and a wishlist with the title for everything else to keep 10.


I plan on doing similar for my Simpsons SPs, but thinking about it, I'm better off using the OnePass for the repeats since the wishlist isn't channel specific. A wishlist set for new only will record only from the channel that has new episodes, and then I can pick a channel for repeats with the OnePass.


----------



## n2lovell

DoubleDAZ said:


> It's just too bad there isn't a Name sort option in groups.


There is now actually for folders that aren't series. Trying pressing B in a wishlist folder for example.


----------



## n2lovell

innocentfreak said:


> Also you could add a third option on the delete prompt at the end of the episode to mark watched, which would default to never record again, and delete.


What you describe here is happening now.

For recordings: If you have *watched* and manually deleted a show (through the keep dialog, clear, or the delete dialog), then its extremely unlikely to ever get recorded again.

Recovering the show if you accidentally deleted it will undo it. If you delete it without watching it then, then it falls under the previous behavior.

If its just a streaming icon: Then if you delete it, then it should never get recorded again.

If you ever want to reset that globally for a series, then you can cancel and get the OnePass again.

You can also do it a season at a time by using "Add this Season".

This is behaviour is true for all *newly* deleted content, its not true for any previously deleted content.


----------



## trip1eX

How about let us prioritize Suggestions so that it records shows with 3 thumbs up before any tivo-suggested shows?

That would be a more reliable automatic work around to the elimination of 2 season passes for 1 show debacle.

This thing just seems like it is going to be annoying. 

I never had a problem just going to Netflix if I wanted to binge watch a series that I didn't record. Netflix already organizes all the shows in nice order and keeps track of your place and what episode you are on etc. 

I can see that say having House of Cards in my Now PLaying list might be cool. But ...I wasn't clamoring for it at all.

I'm back to not looking forward to this update.


----------



## moonscape

DoubleDAZ said:


> How do you record movies and get Tivo to put them into a Group? Wouldn't recorded movies be listed individually and be able to be sorted alphabetically?


I have a lot of wish lists for actors, directors, etc - not just by movie name.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

If you like sports, you'll love the new Tivo OnePass (tm).

OnePass -- Every freaking football, basketball, baseball, golf, hockey, auto racing, UFC, boxing, and rugby competition on television crammed down your throat just the way you want it. Shut up, we said you want it.


But seriously I like what OnePass itself does, but the single SP compromise is a bit much. The suggested work-arounds are kinda bad. They should have developed proper work-arounds if they had to be firm on the single 1P.


----------



## JWhites

morac said:


> I'm pretty sure the startup video isn't included in the software download. Since it never changes, there would be no reason to do so.
> 
> In older models it was actually stored on an unwritable part of the drive so it couldn't be updated. I'm not sure how it works now though.


Since the mini has it too and has no hard drive I'm thinking its stored on a chip or NVM. I personally love the video and wish there was a way to update it. The Roamio version is pretty cool.


----------



## RoyK

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If you like sports, you'll love the new Tivo OnePass (tm).
> 
> OnePass -- Every freaking football, basketball, baseball, golf, hockey, auto racing, UFC, boxing, and rugby competition on television crammed down your throat just the way you want it. Shut up, we said you want it.
> 
> But seriously I like what OnePass itself does, but the single SP compromise is a bit much. The suggested work-arounds are kinda bad. They should have developed proper work-arounds if they had to be firm on the single 1P.


Kinda bad? You mean the absurdly ridiculous suggestion of 'be sure not to be away when your shows record so that you can mark them not to be deleted before they are written over? Or the even more stupid one of giving shows thumbs up and gambling that suggestions will get them? 
This is how we now are expected to use the world leading DVR ? I suppose the next piece of brilliant advice will be to use manual recordings like the vcr days.


----------



## HeadsUp7Up

As a follow up to my experience earlier I had the Power Save set to "High" when I could not access a tuner for my mini. With it set to "Low" I was able to use the mini with the Roamio in standby mode. It actually makes sense as the "High" setting basically tells you tuners are turned off. They may want to add some language about mini use on the settings page. I'm going to assume "Medium" might work as well for allowing a mini to access a tuner but I haven't had time to test that out yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## jrtroo

So, is all of this doom and gloom working out in reality? Or are some of the work around panning out? Or, is it simply too soon to tell? 

This is a clever group of users, so are folks actually missing tons of content?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

n2lovell said:


> There is now actually for folders that aren't series. Trying pressing B in a wishlist folder for example.


Yes, but how do you pull or push files, like movies, into a non-series group. I can get them into a "series" group by using the same seriesId in the metadata txt file, but if you pull a movie with just the metadata file created by MetaGenerator, doesn't it upload as an individual item in My Shows? I'd like to put a bunch of my favorite movies into a group so I don't have to see them in the My Shows list unless I'm actually looking for one. I had it working until they took the Groups On/Off option away.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

moonscape said:


> I have a lot of wish lists for actors, directors, etc - not just by movie name.


I don't use Wish Lists, so are you saying you also want to be able to sort My Shows by actor, director, etc.?

EDIT: I set up a Wish List for an actor and see the recordings are grouped by the actor and can then be sorted by Name. Now I just need to figure out how to set up the metadata txt files to pull movies into a non-series group.


----------



## MarkRSmith

andyf said:


> +1
> 
> I always watch my shows oldest to newest. Now that's really not possible.


Agreed. I keep my Roamio pretty full and rely on sorting oldest to newest to watch shows in order. In groups once a new show records it is at the top of the list when sorted by date. With 100+ groups there is no practical way to watch old items first.


----------



## reneg

jrtroo said:


> So, is all of this doom and gloom working out in reality? Or are some of the work around panning out? Or, is it simply too soon to tell?
> 
> This is a clever group of users, so are folks actually missing tons of content?


I'm sure for some folks it's not working out at all.

For me, everything is still recording, everyone in the family can still find and watch what they want. There are some things in the UI that I think can be improved in the areas of grouping, sorting, and adding user profiles.

I'm curious what further improvements Tivo will make based on our feedback.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

Wishlists might be useful (if inelegant) for some scenarios. For example, set reruns for a specific channel and set WL's to New Only.


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> I never had a problem just going to Netflix if I wanted to binge watch a series that I didn't record. Netflix already organizes all the shows in nice order and keeps track of your place and what episode you are on etc.
> 
> I can see that say having House of Cards in my Now PLaying list might be cool. But ...I wasn't clamoring for it at all.
> 
> I'm back to not looking forward to this update.


For me I see this as a significant differentiator for tivo. I have lamented time and time again how disjointed all the OTT apps are. It is really annoying and exists accross all platforms:

- Discovery is handled differently in each environment
- User interaction and presentation is brand specific
- you have to drive into that app before you can stumble upon content.

Tivo is trying to create a unified hub for the OTT content. This is new and not something anyone is really doing... Yes there are some apps - but even then you have to go into another branded app.

I applaud the attempt. Are there growing pains? Yes... Is it perfect? Did tivo get it right with the first swing - probably not. Tivo needs feedback and will most likely need to tweak the functionality a little.

But as with anything - it is change that is hardest for the "mob" to accept.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

NYHeel said:


> Take the SD channel out of your channels I receive list. Then it won't record from that channel.


Can't do that, as I do record other shows on that SD channel, shows that are available only on that SD channel.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

bradleys said:


> Just a tad apocalyptic, think?


Possibly, but it also depends upon how one uses the TiVo, or more correctly, how one used to use the TiVo.

Now TiVo thinks its users are too stupid, and we have started to see the dumbing down of the TiVo interface to the lowest common denominator of user intelligence.

What's going to be deemed to be "too complicated for TiVo users" and removed in the next software release?

Is TiVo really striving to reach mediocrity here?


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> While it doesn't really effect me I'm really surprised that they eliminated the ability to set up multiple SPs for the same show. There are several use cases for that ability, as mentioned above, and it's surprising they would eliminate it in favor of some new capabilites which people may not even find useful.
> 
> The other nits about the dates, sort, etc... are bugs they can fix, but *this is a fundamental change to how the system works, and I'm surprised that they went this route.* ...


Emphasis mine.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

PeterLAX said:


> It's hard to fathom why TiVo would not recognize that there are users out there that would want to keep recording re-runs on TBS (and having them auto-delete), while also recording new episodes on CBS (and never having those new episodes delete until we watch them). This seems like a _basic_ TiVo functionality to me.....


Yup. It was one of the reasons why I had been giving TiVo high recommendations when I spoke about it to my friends (and sometimes at parties, anyone who would listen).

The [now lost] intelligent flexibility of a TiVo to record shows the way I want them to be recorded (and retained) was unsurpassed.

Now it's gone, because Tivo thinks its users are too stupid to understand it.


----------



## bradleys

WorldBandRadio said:


> Now TiVo thinks its users are too stupid, and we have started to see the dumbing down of the TiVo interface to the lowest common denominator of user intelligence.


Kind of represents my point... No conversation at all about TiVo's attempt to do something significantly different accross disparate OTT content offerings... Something really unique and interesting.

We could be discussing how this could feed in the future and tivo can really separate itself from the app silo'ed environments like Roku and Fire TV - that would be an interesting conversation.

Instead we will spend pages and pages complaining that I can't get a random sample of reruns In additional to all new content. I get it - I think it is an odd behavior myslef but I get it.

It is frustrating for us that are interested in what this looks like and how it works.

Maybe you guys need to stop living in the past (watching reruns all the time). 

Real first world issues for some of you guys, the passion would be more appropriate if the government put you out of your house and confiscated all your property.


----------



## tatergator1

I didn't use SP's like many of the most vocal opponents to OnePass did, but I can understand the frustration. The multiple SP setup was a powerful method of prioritizing recordings and it's unfortunate it's been scrapped. OnePass is also very promising. 

Ultimately, I hope Tivo will acknowledge the opposition and consider providing an additional power-user setting that is enabled only via a Settings option to allow something like a "SubPass", which would be like the old SP. From a back-end perspective, I don't see why it couldn't be done. Hide it from general users, but allow power users access. From a scheduling and priority perspective in the software, it's really no different from the half-baked WishList workaround that I, among others, have suggested. You just add in a channel specific option and negate the extra folder you get with a Wishlist. We can hope, but Tivo has always seemed averse to providing power-user options in the software.


----------



## julieknits

In reading the earlier posts here, it sounds as if streaming needs to be part of the OnePass for a folder to show up with zero items on Now Playing. I'm a bit leery of editing any of my other existing passes, because the one I've deleted and added has a folder with [0] shown even though it's set to Recordings Only. The only way to get rid of the folder is to delete the OnePass. I only want the folder to display if there are recordings in it. Any way to do that?

Also, the date is odd on that folder. I have my Now Playing sorted by date and that folder displays first with a date of 1/18. Then I see my other folders and recordings showing 1/29 and earlier. Why would 1/18 be listed first?


----------



## bradleys

I think there are things tivo can do, and I hope they will. Just being honest, I do t use tivo that way - I don't think I have ever created two distinct SP's for a single show... But this explains how some of you have 100's of SP's and I only have 53...

I suspect I am more the normal user, but that is becide the point.

Tivo has a very defined and I might say transparent design strategy. They attempt to develop a user experience that provides broad level of user functionality with minimal amount of user interaction.

I cannot scream loud enough that tivo will never deliver custom user folders. It goes so far against their design strategies that you have more chance of seeing the current congress voting to allow Obama a third term! 

That is what happened in this case - a fringe use case was abandoned for what tivo considers a significant enhancement and modernization in user experience.

Agree or don't agree, but that is where we are!


----------



## moyekj

julieknits said:


> In reading the earlier posts here, it sounds as if streaming needs to be part of the OnePass for a folder to show up with zero items on Now Playing. I'm a bit leery of editing any of my other existing passes, because the one I've deleted and added has a folder with [0] shown even though it's set to Recordings Only. The only way to get rid of the folder is to delete the OnePass. I only want the folder to display if there are recordings in it. Any way to do that?
> 
> Also, the date is odd on that folder. I have my Now Playing sorted by date and that folder displays first with a date of 1/18. Then I see my other folders and recordings showing 1/29 and earlier. Why would 1/18 be listed first?


 It's a glaring bug that somehow made it past beta release. Apparently if you make any changes to a 1P it pushes associated MyShows entries to the top in "sort by date" order. This is a ridiculous bug that needs to be fixed before full release rolls out. I can't confirm the behavior myself as I intentionally stayed away from priority list, but its been reported several times already and really hope it has TiVo's attention.

As others have posted, I rely heavily on date sort in MyShows to distinguish new recordings from old, so having that broken is a major step backwards.


----------



## humbb

tatergator1 said:


> I didn't use SP's like many of the most vocal opponents to OnePass did, but I can understand the frustration. The multiple SP setup was a powerful method of prioritizing recordings and it's unfortunate it's been scrapped. OnePass is also very promising.


I too do not use multiple SP's for programs and am enjoying the new OnePass features. However I definitely sympathize with the complaints.

I had a similar situation running MLB.TV on the PS3. Two years ago, I thought the MLB app was perfect, allowing me to see other game scores and situations (including batter/pitcher) while streaming the main game and allowing me to switch immediately to another game if something appeared interesting.

Then in the middle of 2013, MLB released a complete new and improved redesign of the PS3 app with a more "modern" look to it (and obnoxious loud and repeating commercials between innings). One of the "improvements" was the elimination of in-game switching - you now had to terminate the current stream and go to a new page listing the games (and they removed the pitcher/batter info on that page) before you could switch.

I complained over and over on the MLBTV forum about this takeaway but never got anywhere. And apparently few other users on the forum had a problem with this change (or they did and were not willing to complain).

I felt violated as many do on this forum. I now mainly use the Tivo MLB app, although I cannot get the radio audio overlay like on the PS3, but I can view and switch to other games instantly while still viewing my main game. I hope you affected users have better luck with Tivo than I did with MLB.


----------



## bradleys

moyekj said:


> It's a glaring bug that somehow made it past beta release. Apparently if you make any changes to a 1P it pushes associated MyShows entries to the top in "sort by date" order. This is a ridiculous bug that needs to be fixed before full release rolls out. I can't confirm the behavior myself as I intentionally stayed away from priority list, but its been reported several times already and really hope it has TiVo's attention.
> 
> As others have posted, I rely heavily on date sort in MyShows to distinguish new recordings from old, so having that broken is a major step backwards.


I am trying to understand this bug, but I am just not following. I am out of town this week and won't be home to play around until later this evening.

Can somebody simplify the issue for me?


----------



## RoyK

tatergator1 said:


> I didn't use SP's like many of the most vocal opponents to OnePass did, but I can understand the frustration. The multiple SP setup was a powerful method of prioritizing recordings and it's unfortunate it's been scrapped. OnePass is also very promising.
> 
> Ultimately, I hope Tivo will acknowledge the opposition and consider providing an additional power-user setting that is enabled only via a Settings option to allow something like a "SubPass", which would be like the old SP. From a back-end perspective, I don't see why it couldn't be done. Hide it from general users, but allow power users access. From a scheduling and priority perspective in the software, it's really no different from the half-baked WishList workaround that I, among others, have suggested. You just add in a channel specific option and negate the extra folder you get with a Wishlist. We can hope, but Tivo has always seemed averse to providing power-user options in the software.


Really unnecessary in my opinion. I don't recall ever reading a post from a user confused by multiple SPs. On the contrary it appears many don't realize it's possible. Its simple really. If you don't need them then don't use them. I always thought that TiVo users were in the main above average. That's why we don't settle for cable company equipment.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> ....
> Maybe you guys need to stop living in the past (watching reruns all the time).


Yep Right. Instead we should all embrace the new software which, at the expense of being able to record what we want the way we want allows us to easily go OTT and watch ..... wait for it ...... seasons of reruns,


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Yep Right. Instead we should all embrace the new software which, at the expense of being able to record what we want the way we want allows us to easily go OTT and watch ..... wait for it ...... seasons of reruns,












My only point is the change is a lot more that a loss of functionality.


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> Maybe you guys need to stop living in the past (watching reruns all the time).


The whole unified UI and organizing by season/episode is 99% about repeats.


----------



## L David Matheny

NYHeel said:


> Take the SD channel out of your channels I receive list. Then it won't record from that channel.





WorldBandRadio said:


> Can't do that, as I do record other shows on that SD channel, shows that are available only on that SD channel.


Can you try deselecting the SD channel(s) in the channel list as a test? I thought (current, old-style) channel-specific season passes would continue to record even if a channel was deselected, but suggestions (and hopefully all-channel OnePasses) would record only from a selected channel. So to setup a recording from an SD channel, you would select it, setup the OnePass, then deselect the channel again. Has anyone tried this as a workaround?


----------



## alleybj

In My Shows, when I ask it to add streaming shows to my recorded ones, the default is for it to show everything starting with the oldest first; I'd rather see my newest, recently recorded shows first. If I hit B, that sorts it the way I want it, but it doesn't seem to be a permanent change, in that I've noticed I have to keep doing it periodically. Any way to make that newest first option a permanent change? Thanks


----------



## tatergator1

RoyK said:


> I always thought that TiVo users were in the main above average. That's why we don't settle for cable company equipment.


In the past, yes, most Tivo users were above average. That's not the case anymore. Retail Tivo owners have been the minority for some time now. Tivo's future is not retail, it's as a software provider to MSO's. From the standpoint of MSO's, OnePass is very appealing. It allows them to integrate the On Demand system directly into the My Shows list. An average user is watching a series live or withing 7 days of airing. If a recording is bumped due to breaking news, live sports overruns, etc. the OnePass solution is very powerful for the end user to simply switch from the recording into the MSO's On Demand offering of the missed recording. It's nearly seamless. Comcast's Xfinity integration to retail Tivo users is a perfect example. Furthermore, you can bet the smaller MSO's like RCN are very excited to advertise the benefits of OnePass when it comes time for RCN to update their leased Tivo units.

It would be shocking for Tivo to back-track on OnePass. The only hope for individuals in your situation is for Tivo to all a power user setting to re-enable the equivalent of multiple SP's.


----------



## rainwater

alleybj said:


> In My Shows, when I ask it to add streaming shows to my recorded ones, the default is for it to show everything starting with the oldest first; I'd rather see my newest, recently recorded shows first. If I hit B, that sorts it the way I want it, but it doesn't seem to be a permanent change, in that I've noticed I have to keep doing it periodically. Any way to make that newest first option a permanent change? Thanks


There doesn't seem to be a way to set that as the standard sort option when using streaming for a OnePass. It is one of the many reasons I disabled streaming for all of my OnePasses. Because sorting in general is broken, I have no clue when new shows are recorded using this new sorting technique. It seems TiVo made it great for binge watchers but terrible for the rest of us.


----------



## Dan203

bradleys said:


> I am trying to understand this bug, but I am just not following. I am out of town this week and won't be home to play around until later this evening.
> 
> Can somebody simplify the issue for me?


Normally, even with groups enabled, you can sort by date and it will put the folders with the newest episodes at the top of the list. This is handy for looking at what recorded most recently. If you edit the settings of a 1P it changes the date for the folder to the current date, which puts it at the top of the list when sorted by date, even if the most recent episode in the group is very old.


----------



## moyekj

Dan203 said:


> Normally, even with groups enabled, you can sort by date and it will put the folders with the newest episodes at the top of the list. This is handy for looking at what recorded most recently. If you edit the settings of a 1P it changes the date for the folder to the current date, which puts it at the top of the list when sorted by date, even if the most recent episode in the group is very old.


 If you set the 1P to NOT include streaming sources does the problem go away? (rainwater's post above seems to indicate as such).


----------



## Arcady

moyekj said:


> If you set the 1P to NOT include streaming sources does the problem go away? (rainwater's post above seems to indicate as such).


If you set it back to recordings only, the folder is still at the top of the list. At least temporarily.

I just noticed today that single recordings in a folder that got moved to the top of the list when switching from recording/streaming to recording are now back in the my shows list where they should be. Some sort of housekeeping must have reconciled it in the last 12 hours.


----------



## dslunceford

bradleys said:


> Wouldn't you get exactly what you have today, just in a single folder arranged in season order?
> 
> I guess you loose the ability to set distinct KUID / KUSN for each SP - but that is really the biggest change.
> 
> And you can still creat a WishList.


Still need to read through, but I have a couple of these situations...Simpsons and Big Bang. 1 SP records new only, on Fox and CBS. The other records reruns only, and from a specific channel. IIRC they were already being grouped in same folder, just the "save/keep as" was different. Managing that could be a pain if I start to run out of space.


----------



## Arcady

They could solve all of this if they just added an option to "keep this season until:" and "keep previous seasons until:"


----------



## bantar

n2lovell said:


> innocentfreak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also you could add a third option on the delete prompt at the end of the episode to mark watched, which would default to never record again, and delete. You could also have keep which doesn't flag the episode or delete and don't flag the episode watched.
> 
> 
> 
> What you describe here is happening now.
> 
> For recordings: If you have *watched* and manually deleted a show (through the keep dialog, clear, or the delete dialog), then its extremely unlikely to ever get recorded again.
> 
> Recovering the show if you accidentally deleted it will undo it. If you delete it without watching it then, then it falls under the previous behavior.
> 
> If its just a streaming icon: Then if you delete it, then it should never get recorded again.
> 
> If you ever want to reset that globally for a series, then you can cancel and get the OnePass again.
> 
> You can also do it a season at a time by using "Add this Season".
> 
> This is behaviour is true for all *newly* deleted content, its not true for any previously deleted content.
Click to expand...

I'd have to strongly disagree with this (the quote above in red). The problem with trying to "catch up" on a series thru reruns is the incessant problem of RERECORDING shows that you've already watched. Let's say I want to watch "Every Episode of the Simpsons Ever". There's no programatic (or Tivo-assisted) way for me to remember what I've seen. Secondly after I watch it and the 28 day record window passes, this very episode is likely to get recorded again. This is a problem for any series that can be watched in out-of-order sequence (vs. a serial, like Breaking Bad where you want to watch it in series order).

The biggest problem is that I end up watching the episode again to about the 90% mark and THEN remember that I've seen it recently. How do you cycle thru old content "in a fresh manner"? It's a rerun, but since I've not seen it in a year, I'd like to watch it again. Murphy's law works against freshness! 

Most of the gripes I see on here about loss of the 2nd SP are really dealing with their attempts to gather batches of fresh "old content", while not losing truly fresh (new) episodes do to Keep At Most space restrictions.


----------



## jrtroo

If you get 90% through and are enjoying the show without recollection, isn't it essentially "new to you", using an old summer rerun term from the 1990s?


----------



## Dan203

There are two basic issues with the current 1P compared to the old SP. KAM and priority. With multiple SPs you could adjust both the KAM setting for a 2nd SP and the priority to prevent conflicts with higher priority shows. So for example you may want the new episodes of The Big Bang Theory to be your top priority with KAM set to all. But you may also want a SP set to pickup repeats, from another channel, to be below your first run SPs and set to KAM 5 to prevent it from overrunning your space. 

As mentioned above I don't really use that ability, but my Sister does and she's going to complain to me when she gets this update and it breaks that feature. I'm not sure how I'm going to fix it for her. I might have to use very specific Wish Lists for her. (She's not technical at all and only has a TiVo because I gave it to her)


----------



## bantar

jrtroo said:


> If you get 90% through and are enjoying the show without recollection, isn't it essentially "new to you", using an old summer rerun term from the 1990s?


NO, it's annoying as hell. Take for example: Wheeler Dealer's. Did I watch the episode about the BMW? Well, they've probably done a dozen different BMW episodes. I'd rather watch one of the ones I've not seen. Same is true for the Simpsons. Did you see the one where Bart pranked someone? If your goal is to "slowly binge watch" the series, then repeated recordings aren't helping. If your goal is to just have 5 rerun episodes as filler, still, wouldn't it be nice if you had not recently seen these?

And I agree that NEW content must have a higher recording priority than old content, when there are conflicts for tuners.


----------



## bradleys

So the streaming content does not show up in the OnePass folders on the IOS app? That isn't terribly consistent.

If I setup a OnePass with no "recorded" content, on the tv I see all the online content availble, on the iPad app I simply have an empty folder.

For people who ipuse the iPad as the primary navigation tool for the tivo, it kind of defeats the purpose.


----------



## Dan203

bradleys said:


> So the streaming content does not show up in the OnePass folders on the IOS app? That isn't terribly consistent.
> 
> If I setup a OnePass with no "recorded" content, on the tv I see all the online content availble, on the iPad app I simply have an empty folder.
> 
> For people who ipuse the iPad as the primary navigation tool for the tivo, it kind of defeats the purpose.


You have to change the option to My Episodes or All to see the streaming stuff. The default is Recordings.


----------



## dslunceford

TiVoMargret said:


> I know some people are worried about the change that prohibits getting more than one OnePass for a show. Continuing to allow this added a lot of complication as we made the changes to support streaming video options. OnePass will let you record on "all channels" or one specific channel. If you were using two Season Passes so that you could have different recording options on different channels, here are some things you might consider:
> 
> 1. Get the OnePass for All Channels, and either mark the important episodes "Keep Until I Delete" after they record, or delete the ones you don't care about.
> 
> 2. Get the OnePass for the channel you really care about. Turn Suggestions On, and give the show 3 thumbs up. Any episodes that record on other channels (as Suggestions) will show up in your OnePass folder. You can watch the episodes, mark them "keep longer", or let them come and go as disk space is needed.


I think Option 1 is fraught with risk, as it requires manual intervention. Have it set to 10 episodes to catch both new/old and something like "the Simpsons" could turn those 10 episodes over in a couple of days due to volume of airings. This means a "new" episode could be deleted in as few as 2 days...unless you want to babysit, you'll lose something you want.

I'm going to use #2 and just catch whatever reruns I might with Suggestions. Though less than ideal, the new episode is the priority for me.

I *did* use OnePass to free up some space on the drive, however. The last season of 24 was just sitting on the Roamio, and I didn't want to delete even though it's available on Amazon Prime (thought I would forget about it). Created a new OnePass, that has all episodes listed as streaming, and freed up about 10% of drive space + I've got the show listed in My Shows...


----------



## cherry ghost

dslunceford said:


> I think Option 1 is fraught with risk, as it requires manual intervention. Have it set to 10 episodes to catch both new/old and something like "the Simpsons" could turn those 10 episodes over in a couple of days due to volume of airings. This means a "new" episode could be deleted in as few as 2 days...unless you want to babysit, you'll lose something you want.


She should have suggested marking important episodes KUID _before_ they record. Still manual intervention, but probably a better idea.


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> You have to change the option to My Episodes or All to see the streaming stuff. The default is Recordings.


I see it now...

My episodes, above the content section...


----------



## dslunceford

cherry ghost said:


> She should have suggested marking important episodes KUID _before_ they record. Still manual intervention, but probably a better idea.


Yeah, the point is there was a function that worked well without such intervention, and now it doesn't. While the effect will be minimal for me, for others it might be a huge hassle.


----------



## bradleys

Some of my observations:

*The sort order is distracting. I create a new OnePass And it shows up at the top of the list.*

I get what they were doing, with no physical recording, the OnePass folder would always be at the bottom of the list - but I think that is better than this.

*Play on iPad via Netflix, Amazon, et al apps*

They are showing streaming content via your OnePass, but you can only select and watch them on the OTT apps installed on the TiVo. You should be able to watch on iPad via the apps installed on the device.

Funny, it works for HBOGo, FOXNow and other streaming providers, but not for the OTA apps installed on the TiVo.

If they want to be a consolidator, the app designed for remote devices should facilitate watching on remote devices!


----------



## kdmorse

Dan203 said:


> There are two basic issues with the current 1P compared to the old SP. KAM and priority. With multiple SPs you could adjust both the KAM setting for a 2nd SP and the priority to prevent conflicts with higher priority shows. So for example you may want the new episodes of The Big Bang Theory to be your top priority with KAM set to all. But you may also want a SP set to pickup repeats, from another channel, to be below your first run SPs and set to KAM 5 to prevent it from overrunning your space.


Yup, I need to play with 1P some more, but I have several season passes where this has broken my normal recoding options badly. Some for KAM reasons, some for Priority reasons. Amplified by the fact that between the two I have wide ARWLS for Movies by year (2013/2014/etc..), or category between the two. (ie, New Shows -> ARWLS -> Reruns)

I'm having a very hard time reproducing my preferences with OnePasses.

I think I'm going to have to designate one Tivo as the Rerun Tivo, and move reruns off my main Tivo. And that's not an option available to everyone...


----------



## n2lovell

bradleys said:


> *The sort order is distracting. I create a new OnePass And it shows up at the top of the list.*
> 
> I get what they were doing, with no physical recording, the OnePass folder would always be at the bottom of the list - but I think that is better than this.


Actually the reason it bumps is because for the first time new streaming content is available for your OnePass. Everytime that new streaming content is available, your OnePass folder will bump up (as long as you enabled streaming).

Think House of Cards season 3 becoming available (You'd want it to move to the top of your list).


----------



## morac

n2lovell said:


> Actually the reason it bumps is because for the first time new streaming content is available for your OnePass. Everytime that new streaming content is available, your OnePass folder will bump up (as long as you enabled streaming).
> 
> Think House of Cards season 3 becoming available (You'd want it to move to the top of your list).


I think that would be okay, but from what I've seen reported, if you change the OnePass back to a recording only pass, it move the group back to where the most recent recording is.


----------



## innocentfreak

n2lovell said:


> What you describe here is happening now.
> 
> For recordings: If you have *watched* and manually deleted a show (through the keep dialog, clear, or the delete dialog), then its extremely unlikely to ever get recorded again.
> 
> Recovering the show if you accidentally deleted it will undo it. If you delete it without watching it then, then it falls under the previous behavior.
> 
> If its just a streaming icon: Then if you delete it, then it should never get recorded again.
> 
> If you ever want to reset that globally for a series, then you can cancel and get the OnePass again.
> 
> You can also do it a season at a time by using "Add this Season".
> 
> This is behaviour is true for all *newly* deleted content, its not true for any previously deleted content.


The problem,if this is true, beyond just being an undocumented change to how TiVo works is the lack of viewer input. There are definitely episode I want to record again and ones I don't. Not being able to mark which ones I would rather TiVo record them all past the 28 day rule of course.

Times like this are why I wish I had a virgin TiVo Roamio just to test on.


----------



## moyekj

I think TiVo should seriously consider not releasing this to general public at least for another quarter or so to flush out all the issues. From these discussions its pretty clear this is not ready for general distribution yet. I sure as heck don't want this update in current state.


----------



## CoxInPHX

moyekj said:


> I think TiVo should seriously consider not releasing this to general public at least for another quarter or so to flush out all the issues. From these discussions its pretty clear this is not ready for general distribution yet. I sure as heck don't want this update in current state.


Margret are you listening? , please take this advice seriously.

Has anyone attempted to load back a pre-update SP list from KMTTG? What happens? I would imagine all hell breaks loose.


----------



## uw69

moyekj said:


> I think TiVo should seriously consider not releasing this to general public at least for another quarter or so to flush out all the issues. From these discussions its pretty clear this is not ready for general distribution yet. I sure as heck don't want this update in current state.


+1 I agree. I don't want this update as it stands


----------



## DoubleDAZ

moyekj said:


> I think TiVo should seriously consider not releasing this to general public at least for another quarter or so to flush out all the issues. From these discussions its pretty clear this is not ready for general distribution yet. I sure as heck don't want this update in current state.


I'm okay with that as long as they let me keep it.


----------



## bradleys

moyekj said:


> I think TiVo should seriously consider not releasing this to general public at least for another quarter or so to flush out all the issues. From these discussions its pretty clear this is not ready for general distribution yet. I sure as heck don't want this update in current state.


I suppose that depends on what tivo considers a bug vs. simply a transition. This is a pretty significant change to a core process and it is bound to draw a lot of confusion, misunderstanding and resistance to change.

I have only been playing with it for a few hours and it seems pretty solid with definite improvments to streaming and sideloading.

I know it will have a negative impact on people who use multiple SP's - but we have no idea if tivo has any interest in addressing that! Actually, rolling it out broadly may actually create enough noise to persuade tivo.

"Most" of the concerns I have read about so far seem more like design decisions versus software bugs.


----------



## wmcbrine

moyekj said:


> I think TiVo should seriously consider not releasing this to general public at least for another quarter or so to flush out all the issues. From these discussions its pretty clear this is not ready for general distribution yet. I sure as heck don't want this update in current state.


I really doubt that this discussion is representative. It's surely a tiny fraction of TiVo users that make multiple season passes for the same show.


----------



## Johncv

tatergator1 said:


> In the past, yes, most Tivo users were above average. That's not the case anymore. Retail Tivo owners have been the minority for some time now. Tivo's future is not retail, it's as a software provider to MSO's. From the standpoint of MSO's, OnePass is very appealing. It allows them to integrate the On Demand system directly into the My Shows list. An average user is watching a series live or withing 7 days of airing. If a recording is bumped due to breaking news, live sports overruns, etc. the OnePass solution is very powerful for the end user to simply switch from the recording into the MSO's On Demand offering of the missed recording. It's nearly seamless. Comcast's Xfinity integration to retail Tivo users is a perfect example. Furthermore, you can bet the smaller MSO's like RCN are very excited to advertise the benefits of OnePass when it comes time for RCN to update their leased Tivo units.
> 
> It would be shocking for Tivo to back-track on OnePass. The only hope for individuals in your situation is for Tivo to all a power user setting to re-enable the equivalent of multiple SP's.


That the best example for using One Pass, next to using with Netflix or Amazon. Please write a presentation letter to Cox. We already know that Directv will steal it and call it Genie Pass.


----------



## justen_m

Another feature gone with 20.4.6... but still in the menus as available...

In the My Shows Options -> Left column [categories]
Going Away Soon still appears and can be checked. It does NOTHING anymore. I suspect this is related to the fact you can no longer turn Groups (aka folders) off when viewing show lists. The developers failed to remove this option from the categories list.

Is there ANY WAY to find the oldest show on my Tivo? The problem is there are some ancient things in folders that also have recent recordings. As far as I can tell, I have to go into every single folder and check to manually find the oldest episode.

I want to find what is in danger of disappearing, as my drive is nearly full.

Thanks for removing this feature too!!!

FWIW, all my recordings and season passes have the OnePass options...
Include: Recordings only
Rent or Buy: Don't Include

At least I don't have to deal with streaming things screwing up my sorting. I really wish this "upgrade" didn't exist, except it also includes bugfixes. For my use model, this release ONLY removes features. It adds nothing useful.

[edit] I found a solution. kmttg still lets me download the NP list and uncheck folder view, and sort by date.


----------



## RoyK

wmcbrine said:


> I really doubt that this discussion is representative. It's surely a tiny fraction of TiVo users that make multiple season passes for the same show.


I disagree but let's assume that you are right. Only a small percentage of users create wish lists. Let's eliminate them. And how many use manual recordings. Heck, they can go....


----------



## lessd

I understand the 1P problems you people are having, we don't use the 2nd SP so this will have no effect on me BUT it does to many people on this Forum that recommends TiVo to their family and friends, I myself have converted over 25 families to TiVo over the years, I will only do it (for the last few years) for family and a few high tech friends now, as I don't want to be a CSR for TiVo, and that what I am to the people that I get to use the newer TiVos, others on this Forum must run into the same thing I would guess.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> I disagree but let's assume that you are right. Only a small percentage of users create wish lists. Let's eliminate them. And how many use manual recordings. Heck, they can go....


Not sure I understand your argument...

Tivo isn't getting rid of manual recordings or wish lists, they didn't even get rid of season passes. They just moved from a process where you would define a channel to a process to create a one list from "all channels"

The "design" should be a mechanism where you no longer need multiple SP's to accomplish the the goal of collected the entirety of a show.

You guys use it to provide an extended level of definition - but I agree that is still going to be a rather fringe use case.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> Not sure I understand your argument...
> 
> Tivo isn't getting rid of manual recordings or wish lists, they didn't even get rid of season passes. They just moved from a process where you would define a channel to a process to create a one list from "all channels"
> 
> The "design" should be a mechanism where you no longer need multiple SP's to accomplish the the goal of collected the entirety of a show.
> 
> You guys use it to provide an extended level of definition - but I agree that is still going to be a rather fringe use case.


You obviously haven't been paying attention.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> You obviously haven't been paying attention.


Maybe not, I just got back in town a couple of hours ago, so I haven't had a lot of time to play with the new software. What I have seen, I generally like - but it will certainly take some getting used too.

I have some suggestions that I have posted and will continue to review and discuss pros and cons to some of the design decisions. I see the use case for mutilple SP, but truthfully, I never considered it an option - with that I expect it is pretty fringe habit.

What functionality have they removed other than the ability to define multiple distinct SP's for a single program?


----------



## astrohip

DoubleDAZ said:


> How do you record movies and get Tivo to put them into a Group? Wouldn't recorded movies be listed individually and be able to be sorted alphabetically?


Create an ARWL, and put the title of the movie in the Keyword field. It will record it and put it in a WL. Rename the WL "Movies", and voila, you have a folder with movies in it.

Now do it for as many movies as you like, and make sure and set the Boolean to (or). I have single display folders with all kinds of content: movies, Oscar Movies, Concert Movies, etc yada. I even have one that only contains the Pilot episodes of a few series I like.

Caveats: NEVER turn off AR, or it will dump the contents into the Now Playing folder all willy-nilly, outside the folder. And once you've recorded a show that meets a specific criteria, you CAN delete the criteria and the show will remain recorded.

Aside: We get that this OnePass change is upsetting to many of you. And I sympathize. But there's really no purpose served by beating it to death. Offering up alternatives and suggestions is great, but just general "this is the end of TiVo" and all that kinda jazz gets repetitious after a while. For no purpose.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> What functionality have they removed other than the ability to define multiple distinct SP's for a single program?


The ability to turn off Groups and sort everything in Name sequence. It broke my ability to upload ripped movies into a group and view them in Name sequence. And while I know others trying to do the same thing, I accept that it's a fringe desire and I'll survive.


----------



## Arcady

DoubleDAZ said:


> It broke my ability to upload ripped movies into a group and view them in Name sequence.


That is an unsupported hack anyway. The people that wrote the hack need to find a solution.

Or TiVo needs to integrate Plex or a similar solution.


----------



## bradleys

DoubleDAZ said:


> The ability to turn off Groups and sort everything in Name sequence. It broke my ability to upload ripped movies into a group and view them in Name sequence. And while I know others trying to do the same thing, I accept that it's a fringe desire and I'll survive.


Yeah, I noticed the changes to the sorting options - not really all that excited with that change. I can tell they struggled with with how to handle streaming content without the grouping. A better compromise would have been to simply hide all of the steaming content when groups were turned off.

That would have given you exactly what you had befor the change.

Question - how did you rip/ MRV separate movies into one group? What behavior do you see now using that same procedure?


----------



## morac

justen_m said:


> Another feature gone with 20.4.6... but still in the menus as available...
> 
> In the My Shows Options -> Left column [categories]
> Going Away Soon still appears and can be checked. It does NOTHING anymore. I suspect this is related to the fact you can no longer turn Groups (aka folders) off when viewing show lists. The developers failed to remove this option from the categories.


Going away soon works for me. There's currently 3 items in it. All three are shows that will be deleted because of the keep at most option.

Going away soon only shows programs that will be deleted soon.


----------



## moyekj

wmcbrine said:


> I really doubt that this discussion is representative. It's surely a tiny fraction of TiVo users that make multiple season passes for the same show.


 The multiple SP issue is only 1 of several other issues that have surfaced here. I'm most concerned about the date sort order being messed up when you update a 1P and some other My Shows related problems.


----------



## Bytez

Got the update today. I'm diisappointed that they still cannot fix the audio dropout when switching to the menu and back to live tv. What is so hard?


----------



## justen_m

morac said:


> Going away soon works for me. There's currently 3 items in it. All three are shows that will be deleted because of the keep at most option.
> 
> Going away soon only shows programs that will be deleted soon.


Interesting. Thanks. I'm going to test this. I just set up a season pass for Simpsons, all channels, new&repeats, keep at most 2 episodes. My Tivo is now scheduled to record 12 straight episodes starting right now on FXX. Maybe the Going Away Soon will appear? I'd like to be wrong. Maybe I just have too much free disk space and not enough things scheduled to record in my todo list.

I wonder what the time frame for "deleted soon" is. I had hoped the time frame was pretty much infinite, so it would show my oldest shows. Perhaps it is available disk space plus estimated disk space required for scheduled recordings? I think I actually may have read this is the case here on this forum.


----------



## wmcbrine

moyekj said:


> I'm most concerned about the date sort order being messed up when you update a 1P


Sorry, but I don't even get what the issue is supposed to be there.

Generally, I create a season pass, and then just leave it alone, until it's no longer needed.


----------



## bradleys

wmcbrine said:


> Sorry, but I don't even get what the issue is supposed to be there.
> 
> Generally, I create a season pass, and then just leave it alone, until it's no longer needed.


If the concern is what I have noticed... If you create (not sure about modify) a OnePass it places it at the top of the My Shows list without regard to content. N

It is really obvious as you are modifying a bunch of SP's into 1P's and the viewable area on my shows are a bunch of mostly empty folders.

Over time it should be less obtrusive than it is now,neither us making changes en mas.


----------



## justen_m

morac said:


> Going away soon works for me. There's currently 3 items in it. All three are shows that will be deleted because of the keep at most option.
> 
> Going away soon only shows programs that will be deleted soon.





justen_m said:


> Interesting. Thanks. I'm going to test this. I just set up a season pass for Simpsons, all channels, new&repeats, keep at most 2 episodes. My Tivo is now scheduled to record 12 straight episodes starting right now on FXX. Maybe the Going Away Soon will appear?


Yup, it did. Going Away Soon appeared and is showing the Simpsons episodes. (I sped up the process by changing a suggestion to a KUID). It would be nice if when I checked the box to show it, it appeared, even if the list was empty, perhaps with a note saying nothing is Going Away in the next 12 days or something.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> Question - how did you rip/ MRV separate movies into one group? What behavior do you see now using that same procedure?


You can read the specifics in this thread. Basically, I ripped a DVD to an mp4 file. I then used a small "base" video and metadata txt file to create a group on the Tivo. Once that's done, I created metadata txt files with the same seriesId in them for all the movies I wanted to upload to the group and used pyTivo to have the Tivo "pull" the movies from my laptop into the group. I also came up with a scheme using the "time :" entry in the metadata txt file to force a quasi Name sequence.

The One Pass update stopped sorting based on the metadata date/time and started sequencing on the actual date/time of the upload. That broke my "forced" sequencing scheme. Taking away the Groups On/Off option then broke the ability to turn groups off and sort all items in Name sequence. I'm left with the ability to still pull movies into a group, but no way to sort them in Name sequence. I can still watch them and keep them separate from other recordings, I just have to manually scroll through them in the group to find the one I'm looking for.

It's not a big deal and I fully understand it wasn't/isn't a supported process, so I'm not complaining. I'm currently looking for a way to pull the movies into a "non-series" group, like a Wish List does. Unlike series groups, Wish List groups have Name and Date sort options.


----------



## bradleys

Where do I find the Going Away Soon? Is it a status set at the content level?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

Arcady said:


> That is an unsupported hack anyway. The people that wrote the hack need to find a solution.
> 
> Or TiVo needs to integrate Plex or a similar solution.


I know it's an unsupported process, I just modify metadata txt files to make it work, and I'm not complaining about it. I'm just mentioning it to maybe get some ideas on what I can try to do differently.

All Tivo needs to do is add Name to the sort options, but I can see why they don't see a need to do that based on how they think the Tivo should be used.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> Where do I find the Going Away Soon? Is it a status set at the content level?


I believe it only shows up in the left column of My Shows when a recording meets the criteria, assuming you have it enable in the Show Categories setting.


----------



## bradleys

DoubleDAZ said:


> I know it's an unsupported process, I just modify metadata txt files to make it work, and I'm not complaining about it. I'm just mentioning it to maybe get some ideas on what I can try to do differently.
> 
> All Tivo needs to do is add Name to the sort options, but I can see why they don't see a need to do that based on how they think the Tivo should be used.


Cool on the foldering - never tried it, but is seem to recall hearing something about it in the past.

As for sorting - before the update, we could turn off grouping and apply sorting to the total list (Name / Date). You get the same sorting options, but you can no longer turn the grouping off.

I don't see any other major differences.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## TonyBlunt

RoyK said:


> Yep. The DVR functionality has been seriously corrupted. I for one do not share TiVo's view that the users are too stupid, eh I mean that it would be '' too complicated '' for users to handle multiple SPs which we have been doing for years along with the added functionality of streaming video. What I bought is a digital video recorder not a souped up Rocu. Removing functionality and then suggesting manual work arounds that at best poorly replaces the removed functionality really stinks.


I agree, this will not work for me. I need to have multiple SPs setup for different channels, especially for sports such as PGA Golf which often starts on one channel and finishes on another. If I use the "All Channel" option it does not catch the second part of the game.

Can I skip this upgrade, and hopefully they will fix this next time around?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## justen_m

nooneuknow said:


> As somebody who loves KMTTG, and knows OnePass will break a utility that made me love my TiVos.


What's broken? For example, as I posted above, while 20.4.6 removed the capability to disable Groups, I can still download my Now Playing list to my computer and disable folders. Like I can still do on my TivoHD but no longer on my Roamio. My Now Playing List and Season Passes download fine from my 24.0.6 Roamio to my computer fine. I haven't tried using kmttg to modify season passes (now OnePasses) or actually download programs yet. I suppose I could try both and see what happens. I assume somebody has already. Fine, I'll do both now.


----------



## justen_m

justen_m said:


> What's broken? For example, as I posted above, while 20.4.6 removed the capability to disable Groups, I can still download my Now Playing list to my computer and disable folders. Like I can still do on my TivoHD but no longer on my Roamio. My Now Playing List and Season Passes download fine from my 24.0.6 Roamio to my computer fine. I haven't tried using kmttg to modify season passes (now OnePasses) or actually download programs yet. I suppose I could try both and see what happens. I assume somebody has already. Fine, I'll do both now.


Ok, well I just did. I used kmttg to successfully modify a season pass (OnePass) on my Roamio, and to download/decrypt a show on my Roamio. The mpg played fine. So what's broken? I'm using kmttg v1.1h I have no idea if that is recent or ancient, but it works.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> Remember "The One Box"?


We're finally getting there, it's just taken 4-5 years longer then expected. 

I think that if they added some way to at least set a different KAM for new vs repeats most people's concerns would be addressed. With 6 tuners and most stuff repeating constantly through the week I'm not sure priorites really matter much any more.

The sorting stuff people will get use to. (Plus a few bugs to fix) A lot of the complaints here are just resistance to change. We'll eventually get use to it and forget how it use to work.

As for kmttg.... we don't know yet how that will work. Perhaps there were some simple API changes that will be easy for moyekj to adapt to. You're being a bit of a chicken little on this one. moyekj Himself doesn't even have the update yet, so we're not sure how kmttg is going to flush out.


----------



## justen_m

nooneuknow said:


> The reports of "spinning blue circles",
> 
> KMTTG has repeatedly failed to pick up new seasons and new shows, since the blue circles started, for me
> 
> It's far too soon to claim that KMTTG will keep on working fine. You can feel free to gloat if the rollout completes, TiVo wraps up their backend changes, and it still works without any loss of any functions. Until then, I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering what functions will cease to work.


I experienced spinning blue circles when trying to add season passes. I haven't had the problem with OnePass. I have no idea if it is fixed. Just i haven't seen it again.

I've never used kmttg to add a season pass. I've only used my Roamio, and experienced failures, which led me to use tivo.com. Never thought about using kmttg.

Why do you think I am gloating? Do you have me confused with another poster? I am just reporting what I am seeing right now, with 24.0.6 and kmttg 1.1h. No more or less. It is working now. I hope it keeps working. On both sides. Why would I possibly gloat? I am keeping my fingers crossed.

Do you have some indication or inside info that there will be another roll-out after the 24.0.6 I got that will break things? I don't, so I was reporting what I have experienced, first hand, being one of the prio list and one of the first 1000 to get 24.0.6.

I do understand your last, as to wondering what will cease to work. Tivo removed to features that I use. multiple season passes for a show, and the ability to turn off groups in show lists. The latter wasn't documented anywhere and pisses me off. I hate 26.0.4 and would prefer an option to have never upgraded, and to disable all future "upgrades."


----------



## kdmorse

Dan203 said:


> We're finally getting there, it's just taken 4-5 years longer then expected.
> 
> I think that if they added some way to at least set a different KAM for new vs repeats most people's concerns would be addressed. With 6 tuners and most stuff repeating constantly through the week I'm not sure priorites really matter much any more.


Automatically (optionally) prioritize New shows over Reruns for both scheduling, and deletion, and all my OnePass gripes go away. Honestly, it's a feature I've been asking for since the Series 2. And it's essentially the behavior I've been duplicating with multiple season passes, or rerun wishlists up until now.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## wmcbrine

TonyBlunt said:


> I need to have multiple SPs setup for different channels, especially for sports such as PGA Golf which often starts on one channel and finishes on another. If I use the "All Channel" option it does not catch the second part of the game.


That sounds like it would work if you just set it to record "All with duplicates".


----------



## RoyK

wmcbrine said:


> That sounds like it would work if you just set it to record "All with duplicates".


Worked just exactly perfectly the way it was before TiVo screwed it.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> Cool on the foldering - never tried it, but is seem to recall hearing something about it in the past.
> 
> As for sorting - before the update, we could turn off grouping and apply sorting to the total list (Name / Date). You get the same sorting options, but you can no longer turn the grouping off.
> 
> I don't see any other major differences.


Unfortunately, I don't get the same sorting options because the movies go into a "series" group where the only sort options are Date, Newest and Season. I used a seriesId beginning with "SH" to get things to semi-work and movies use "MV", but pulling with a seriesId of MV still puts them in a group without Name as a sort option. In both cases, they don't display using the "TV Show" or "Movies" filters in My Shows, so I'm missing something there too. If I can figure out what I need to edit in the metadata txt file to get them into a non-series group (like Wish List recordings) or get the Tivo to see them as "Movies", then the sort options will be Date and Name.


----------



## jcthorne

moyekj said:


> I think TiVo should seriously consider not releasing this to general public at least for another quarter or so to flush out all the issues. From these discussions its pretty clear this is not ready for general distribution yet. I sure as heck don't want this update in current state.


I don't think what are being perceived as 'issues' are at all. They are as intended. The elimination of dual season passes, the sort order etc.

As has been explained, the sort order of a folder with streaming content is the date the newest streaming content was added to the folder. Or the newest recording. This makes perfect sense. If you want it sorted by date for recordings only, set that folder to recordings only.

Yes there needs to be some additional help files or instruction published with the update on how things have changed but I think as we learn them, they are making more sense.

The multiple 1P difficulty has already been asked and answered by tivomargaret as too difficult from a programming and support standpoint. It seems that a combination of a 1P and a WL can do most of what is wanted.

All this said, I do think there are a few desires they could easily add that would be of great benefit to many.

Group pushed recordings with others of the same series or at least leak to the community how to send the needed information with a push to accomplish this.

Add the ability to sort a folder by name in addition to the options available now.

Add the ability of a wishlist to record programs from single channels only. Or better, from specific channels. Or update 1P to add the option of multiple channels in addition to single and all.


----------



## jcthorne

Arcady said:


> That is an unsupported hack anyway. The people that wrote the hack need to find a solution.
> 
> Or TiVo needs to integrate Plex or a similar solution.


No, its a very supported feature accomplished by Tivo Desktop software that Tivo SELLS as and extra cost option. It just so happens that other developer software uses the same protocols to also transfer shows to the tivo.

Do not call it a hack. Its a supported feature advertised by tivo.


----------



## jcthorne

bradleys said:


> Question - how did you rip/ MRV separate movies into one group? What behavior do you see now using that same procedure?


Tivo Desktop or pytivo. The videos sort by date uploaded now. ONLY. No way to sort by original air date or by name as was previously available. Myshows is ignoring OAD.


----------



## aaronwt

Wow this thread got long quick. I only got a chance to just mess around with One Pass. With the few Season Passes I checked, I don't see an issue with the change to One Pass with them. Hopefully the rest of my SPs are fine too. I still have over 170 SPs so I have no desire to check all of them.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

aaronwt said:


> Wow this thread got long quick. I only got a chance to just mess around with One Pass. With the few Season Passes I checked, I don't see an issue with the change to One Pass with them. Hopefully the rest of my SPs are fine too. I still have over 170 SPs so I have no desire to check all of them.


Most Season Passes transitioned just fine. If you have multiple SPs for a give program, one for new episodes on one channel and another for reruns on another channel at a lower priority, you'll want to check those. If you have a SP for a program that also has streaming episodes, like House of Cards, you'll want to check those also because the default settings for items to be displayed in the group is "recordings" and you will not see the streaming links.


----------



## sheshechic

nooneuknow said:


> In your own words, you pretty much just said "We are in for lots of growing pains", with the acknowledgement that it took years for TiVo to get close to "The One Box", they sold as the TiVo Premiere. Let's hope not...
> 
> The difference, for me, is that I liked the Roamio, pretty much at launch, right out of the box. It had a few issues, but TiVo was fast to deal with them, making it easy to forgive a few oversights. The years of waiting for the Premiere to be anything resembling what it was sold as, I still don't forgive TiVo for that. I was mad as hell at the Roamio launch, that it got all the support and attention, while the Premiere stayed stagnated (until after I sold mine).
> 
> I had to go with the base Roamio, as my future is in flux. I may not have cable in the future. Selling off 4 Premieres and 2 TiVo HDs w/LTS pretty much paid for 3 Roamios, and LTS on them. Of course, those same Premieres, which seemed maxed-out in potential, got a new lease on life, and had I kept what I had, more boxes means less impact from OnePass, when it comes to scheduling and priority. More TiVos means ability to divide and conquer what limitations OnePass imposes, as it doesn't manage all the TiVos as a whole (thankfully). But, with the Mini, TiVo has moved many from having a TiVo in every room (or more than one per room), to a single, central, TiVo, and Minis where full TiVos once would be. That's another negative from my POV, making me thankful I didn't go that route.
> 
> I'd rather be "chicken little", and be wrong, than silently hope for the best, and get whammied, without saying anything.
> 
> As I said before, OnePass sounded great in press-release form. The footnote-style mention, in TiVoMargret's release notes, about losing multi-passes, and the explanation given for why, just couldn't be worse of a "180" in my perception of it.
> 
> I invite you to scour the last few release threads, looking for much of anything said by me. There were bugs that went unfixed, new bugs that crept-in/came back, and TiVo never brought back the ability to cleave recordings to conserve tuners (they must be low on good programmers).
> 
> I went a good long time chillaxin on software releases, and such, spending most of my time doing my own R&D on some things, and tried to help out in the support threads. I'm not saying all was chill and I was a beloved member. I just quit raving over software updates that I couldn't change, or hope maybe TiVoMargret might see enough negative reception over, to relay it to those who might be able to do something about it. If I was rampaging about an issue, it would be in a thread on that issue, and not in the release notes thread.
> 
> Tell me that the way the loss of having multiple passes doesn't sound like TiVo just doesn't have enough programming talent to make work.
> 
> Some of the most respected members of the forum have come out and quietly said that OnePass shouldn't be rolling yet, and/or as-is. Some of them have expressed a desire to be the last to get it.
> 
> I sincerely feel that TiVo rushed OnePass out now, so that (hopefully) most of the issues with it can be fixed by the important Fall TV season. There will be issues and bugs. Some have already been found, zero-day speed.
> 
> I will eat my words, if this rollout completes, and the sentiment isn't highly biased towards "this shouldn't have even left initial testing".
> 
> There's plenty of things that TiVo still needs to fix, or could improve upon, keeping its existing customers happy and loyal, while still attracting new TiVo acolytes. Why have they been working on this, when there are so many things we all have been patiently waiting for them to fix?
> 
> Some will say TiVo needed to make a bold move, to attract more subscribers. But, this update applies to Premieres, too. Why not come up with something that only the Roamio platform can do, if that was the case? At the same time, TiVo's backend services (cloud services) have been barely adequate in performance.
> 
> IMO, TiVo would have been better-off focusing on the pre-existing issues, bugs, and new features they already had to remove (like same-tuner cleaving, for eliminating conflicts), than forcing all of retail to alpha-test something barely past conceptual stage.
> 
> I hadn't much bought into the idea that TiVo getting into bed with MSOs was going to be as bad as some other "chicken littles" predicted, and have been drumming on about. But, the more I think about this, the more it seems that TiVo's future is now in the hands of the MSOs, and retail TiVo owners are to that, what beta testers used to be to retail TiVo, back in those retail-centric days. We exist as a test bed before something new gets sent to the MSO boxes.
> 
> I hope all those in love with OnePass enjoy helping TiVo work out the bugs, so that the people leasing TiVos through MSO partners can have a pleasant, and near seamless transition.
> 
> If we all just bend over and take that as our purpose to TiVo, we deserve what we get. I'm not ready to get out the vaseline and just accept it.
> 
> I am sincerely a great many things on this matter, none of them good, positive, or accepting. I am dropping every project I have been working on, every research vector, and all the non-TiVo things I've been delving into (like learning linux, mastering the art of rooted android devices, flashing them back to life after killing them, hard drive research and testing, etc.), and will be focused on making sure everybody realizes they LOSE something with this update, and making sure TiVo directly knows how fast I'd drop them for my DVR needs, if only there was another player that fit the bill. The only thing that is keeping me from acting on leaving, is hope TiVo will give back what they are taking away (be it by a revision, or by delaying until they can release OnePass without taking it away).
> 
> For me, the loss of the core DVR function, even though not used by all, is just unacceptable. I know that many out there are unaware of the loss, and will also find it unacceptable. I'm not the only one making noise. I want to make sure that the noise is heard, and hope to bring more to realize if they don't object now, and loudly, they will be stuck with OnePass, and a loss of something they might not notice, until the right conditions reveal it.
> 
> I'm seeing members that haven't said anything in years come in on this, new members come in on this, and bet this matter will bring new members to TCF to speak on this.
> 
> If it winds up all for nothing, that's my queue to realize that TiVo is no longer a fit for me, and that the power of TCF member thoughts and opinions have no power/influence, and it is a waste of time to try and use TCF as a means to influence TiVo's actions and paths.
> 
> Time to get back to the convoluted way TiVo's legal dept requires complaints be submitted (snail mail), and figure out the arbitration method, since CAL rights were given up with one of the past TOS/UA revisions...


Too bad TCF doesn't have something similar to a "like" button. I stand with you, but most likely for different reasons. If I don't like One Pass I'll be leaving TIVO. I decided to cut the cord this year and that means other options become available for a dvr and guide, meaning that with cable there was little competition for TIVO, but with OTA there's more. One Pass and TIVO cost options could very well just knock them out of the running.


----------



## Arcady

jcthorne said:


> No, its a very supported feature accomplished by Tivo Desktop software that Tivo SELLS as and extra cost option. It just so happens that other developer software uses the same protocols to also transfer shows to the tivo.
> 
> Do not call it a hack. Its a supported feature advertised by tivo.


No. Editing movie files so they show up as a TV series and wind up in a folder is definitely a hack.

I never said moving video to the TiVo was a hack. Of course that's supported.


----------



## slowbiscuit

BigJimOutlaw said:


> If you like sports, you'll love the new Tivo OnePass (tm).
> 
> OnePass -- Every freaking football, basketball, baseball, golf, hockey, auto racing, UFC, boxing, and rugby competition on television crammed down your throat just the way you want it. Shut up, we said you want it.
> 
> But seriously I like what OnePass itself does, but the single SP compromise is a bit much. The suggested work-arounds are kinda bad. They should have developed proper work-arounds if they had to be firm on the single 1P.


I use ARWLs on all my sports except for NFL Football, and I only get what I want because I can include/exclude specific keywords. It's really the only way to go for sports IMO.

For example I have a NASCAR ARWL that only records new Sprint Cup or Xfinity (formerly Nationwide) races. No qualifying, no practice, no truck series etc. Doesn't matter what channel it's on. Same for all other racing series (F1, IndyCar, MotoGP etc.).

NFL Football is easy if you want all the games, just set a 1P for all channels, new only.


----------



## slowbiscuit

HeadsUp7Up said:


> As a follow up to my experience earlier I had the Power Save set to "High" when I could not access a tuner for my mini. With it set to "Low" I was able to use the mini with the Roamio in standby mode. It actually makes sense as the "High" setting basically tells you tuners are turned off. They may want to add some language about mini use on the settings page. I'm going to assume "Medium" might work as well for allowing a mini to access a tuner but I haven't had time to test that out yet.


Medium power save works fine with the Mini and doesn't wake up the Tivo. Tuner is available right away after powering up the TV.


----------



## aaronwt

slowbiscuit said:


> Medium power save works fine with the Mini and doesn't wake up the Tivo. Tuner is available right away after powering up the TV.


Where is the power setting located?


----------



## grimmace92

Be careful downloading copy protected shows using the TiVo app. The problem is the app will download anything and delete it from your Roamio but then you go and try to watch it on your phone and the watch on iPhone button is greyed out. You can't watch it at all when this happens. The app doesn't seem to care if the show is copy protected in a certain way. It needs to know this somehow otherwise your screwed.


----------



## cherry ghost

TonyBlunt said:


> I agree, this will not work for me. I need to have multiple SPs setup for different channels, especially for sports such as PGA Golf which often starts on one channel and finishes on another. If I use the "All Channel" option it does not catch the second part of the game.
> 
> Can I skip this upgrade, and hopefully they will fix this next time around?


Yea, a "PGA Tour Golf" One Pass will be a complete mess. You're either going to miss a bunch of recordings or get way too many repeats.


----------



## bradleys

sheshechic said:


> Too bad TCF doesn't have something similar to a "like" button. I stand with you, but most likely for different reasons. If I don't like One Pass I'll be leaving TIVO. I decided to cut the cord this year and that means other options become available for a dvr and guide, meaning that with cable there was little competition for TIVO, but with OTA there's more. One Pass and TIVO cost options could very well just knock them out of the running.


Actually from a cord cutters perspective - OnePass should be awesome! Most of the guys are complaining that they can't create multiple season passes for a single show (allowing one season pass to handle all new episodes and another season pass to hand a smattering reruns)

OnePass is designed to work accross all channels and give you all episodes categorized by season in a single folder. The episodes can be recorded or from streaming services.

With multiple season passes, one can be set to KUID for new only and the reruns to something more temporary - such as keep 10 episodes. Easy to maintain without any intervention.

OTA - you won't have nearly as much overlap and competition for tuners AND you get the benefit of consolidating streaming services into your MY SHOWS listing.

Do you have a specific concern or just like jumping on bandwagons?


----------



## Arcady

cherry ghost said:


> Yea, a "PGA Tour Golf" One Pass will be a complete mess. You're either going to miss a bunch of recordings or get way too many repeats.


Lots of stuff to help one sleep...


----------



## bradleys

grimmace92 said:


> Be careful downloading copy protected shows using the TiVo app. The problem is the app will download anything and delete it from your Roamio but then you go and try to watch it on your phone and the watch on iPhone button is greyed out. You can't watch it at all when this happens. The app doesn't seem to care if the show is copy protected in a certain way. It needs to know this somehow otherwise your screwed.


You fully downloaded a protected show, it finalized and deleted from your Roamio and then was unable to play on your phone?

This is a major bug that needs to be reported to tivo immediately! Have you siumitted an issue to them? Miss this something that you were able to repeat more than once?

Seriously - if this is consistant more than a passing post in a thread of whiners needs to be communicated, a full new post directing people not to use the transfer for protected content needs to be created and tivo needs to be notified.


----------



## slowbiscuit

wmcbrine said:


> That sounds like it would work if you just set it to record "All with duplicates".


Yeah except you get multiple copies of rounds then, because Golf Channel likes to rerun them. There's really no good solution to PGA Tour Golf that will only get the new copies of each round you want on all channels (Golf then followed by either CBS or NBC, usually), either with 1P or an ARWL.

I have an ARWL for PGA Tour that only gets the main tour events and only third/final rounds (no Champions, no web.com etc.) and I have to babysit what it records every week because it only schedules the first Golf Channel showing of the early parts of rounds 3 and 4, not the later CBS/NBC broadcasts the same day for the rest of the rounds. I just manually schedule those from the guide.


----------



## slowbiscuit

jcthorne said:


> Add the ability of a wishlist to record programs from single channels only. Or better, from specific channels. Or update 1P to add the option of multiple channels in addition to single and all.


This is the fix, in a nutshell, and I don't see how it could be a big deal to implement.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> ...
> Seriously - if this is consistant more than a passing post in a thread of whiners ...


I've been wondering who would be the first to throw out that word to refer to posters who have concerns that they do not share.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## RoyK

slowbiscuit said:


> This is the fix, in a nutshell, and I don't see how it could be a big deal to implement.


:up::up::up:

Nor does it conflict with the name OnePass which I fully expect is the major reason that multiple SPs were removed in the first place having worked with marketing folks for many years and having some understanding of their mind sets.


----------



## slowbiscuit

You can already create all the dupe ARWLs you want, so adding the single channel option to them would seem to be an easy fix to me for the loss of multiple SPs. It's not perfect but way better than taking away the option of having multiples.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> I've been wondering who would be the first to throw out that word to refer to posters who have concerns that they do not share.


I would love to discuss actual functionality in at least one thread - but we can't always get what we want - can we?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

Arcady said:


> No. Editing movie files so they show up as a TV series and wind up in a folder is definitely a hack.


That may be technically true, but since Wish List movies for actors, directors, etc., are placed in a group/folder "by Tivo", the idea of editing metadata txt files to do something similar with uploaded movies should at least be considered an unsupported/undocumented "feature".  I fully understand that, as such, Tivo may break it in the future just like they did the use of multiple SPs. I don't know if Tivo documents the use of multiple SPs the way some use them. If they don't, then it's also an undocumented feature and subject to being broken.

I set up a Wish List for John Barrymore movies on the SD version of TCM today. Hopefully, Cox doesn't copy-protect them and I'll be able to download the metadata txt files to see what might be going on. Maybe I'll never figure it out, but I'm enjoying the exercise trying.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

nooneuknow said:


> It's still discussing "functionality", even if it's not the type you wish to focus on. Even un-functionality talk is still discussing functionality.
> 
> You want a thread of nothing but "what works"? Start one, title it accordingly, and state that is the thread's purpose. Unless you post something works, that doesn't work for others, you can have what you want: A thread full of love for TiVo OnePass. I'd honor the spirit of such a thread, should you create one.


I have brought up several features both good an those that may need a little education / explanation...

As far as a few of you are concerned, this release did only one thing - took away your ability to create more than one sp for a single show.

And now that's it, we can't discuss anything else - done, you four guys will make sure of that. We have what, 3 threads on this? Any productive conversation on any of them? Nope

So enjoy, it appears to be your soapbox - stand on it...

Personally, I would get more value discussing why Arkasas gas to tell their teachers to wear underwear - and it is such a controversial thing that it had to be suspended until next year for them to get used to the idea!

http://news.yahoo.com/state-takes-over-arkansas-school-district-had-teachers-143143692.html

(Humorous attempt to move on)


----------



## dianebrat

RoyK said:


> I've been wondering who would be the first to throw out that word to refer to posters who have concerns that they do not share.


Agreed, this would go a long way in helping resolve the issue



slowbiscuit said:


> This is the fix, in a nutshell, and I don't see how it could be a big deal to implement.





nooneuknow said:


> It sure took longer than I was expecting...


I don't think most those of us here a long time considering it whining, but we do know the posters that are most likely to speak up repeatedly and it's gotten to the point that the discussion in "Release Notes" is being derailed by one (albeit significant) removed feature and not the release notes themselves, it only takes one round of "hey this is broken for us" not a constant hammering into the ground about it.

I think a lot of this comes from the change in direction for Tivo where they no longer are targeting the top of the market as far as more tech savvy and forward thinking individuals and have now moved to lowest common denominator to get themselves profitably embedded with the MSOs (eventually)

This change in who their target market is was a huge change, we just reap the occasional benefits of what they're planning for the future and they occasionally throw us a bone.

I don't like it, but I understand from a business model where they have moved. Yeah, it bites to no longer be the preferred child, but it's not like our parents have completely abandoned us.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

slowbiscuit said:


> You can already create all the dupe ARWLs you want, so adding the single channel option to them would seem to be an easy fix to me for the loss of multiple SPs. It's not perfect but way better than taking away the option of having multiples.


I'd love to be able to limit Wish Lists to a single channel like TCM or Westerns because they don't add commercials like AMC and others do.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

dianebrat said:


> I think a lot of this comes from the change in direction for Tivo where they no longer are targeting the top of the market as far as more tech savvy and forward thinking individuals and have now moved to lowest common denominator to get themselves profitably embedded with the MSOs (eventually).


You say this because they "broke" the use of multiple SPs? Those of us who like the added features One Pass brings to the table are now the "lowest common denominator" simply because some don't want change unless it benefits them? They broke one of my uses too, but you don't see me saying One Pass sucks because of it. It's only TV for crying out loud and they haven't even had a chance to consider possible fixes.

Granted, maybe they should have asked some questions before things were set in stone, but that's often not how things work. Obviously, no one in beta testing used multiple SPs, so it didn't get caught. My guess is that if the use of multiple SPs were a big deal for more users, Tivo might have done things differently. As it is, I never considered using multiple SPs and I'm sure most users have no need to record new/rerun episodes of the Simpsons in such a specific manner. However, all episodes of the Simpsons can still be recorded, so nothing is lost, it just takes more manual intervention to manage things. My take is constantly saying Tivo or One Pass sucks is not going to garner much sympathy whereas a well-reason problem report might get somewhere, like a channel feature added to Wish List options.

As for whining, I don't see it. All I've seen so far (other than the silly signature line ) have been responses to questions or other comments explaining how multiple SPs were used. Yes, it may get repetitive, but that isn't whining in my book.


----------



## jcthorne

Arcady said:


> No. Editing movie files so they show up as a TV series and wind up in a folder is definitely a hack.
> 
> I never said moving video to the TiVo was a hack. Of course that's supported.


They do not show up as a tv series. The metadata item isEpisode is set to false, yet it caries a seriesId. They show up as a series of movies. Tivo baked this functionality in to handle such series. A non episodic series of related videos.

Again, not a hack, not representing something to be something its not. Using the functionality Tivo built.

Just because a video is not part of a series of episodes does not mean it is not part of a series.

Please do not try to push the transfer of video on or off the tivo out as a fringe function never supported. It is core functionality used by the tivo and a major differentiation to other DVRs


----------



## Arcady

jcthorne said:


> Please do not try to push the transfer of video on or off the tivo out as a fringe function never supported. It is core functionality used by the tivo and a major differentiation to other DVRs


Again, I never said moving video on or off the TiVo is a hack or unsupported.

Monkeying around with metadata and forcing movies into a folder is not something I would expect any support for. It could be broken at any time. It is not in any way normal end-user activity. Therefore it is a hack.


----------



## Tivogre

Ok... So, TiVo can build OnePass that shows STREAMING shows in a single list with recordings, but they still can't / won't integrate recordings from multiple to is in the same house into that list?!? C'mon Tivo!


----------



## keenanSR

How about a screen saver function? Why doesn't TiVo have that ability?


----------



## L David Matheny

nooneuknow said:


> TiVo can add all the new things they think everybody will like, just so long as they don't disable advanced user features (and/or those that have always been a part of TiVo, even if only used by those like me).
> 
> I can see how OTA-only users, and those with very few SPs (or very limited ones), will love the new way.
> 
> At the same time, now padding and so many other things that could be adjusted per channel, for the same program, are now one setting for all. That's going to be a problem for many of those who love OnePass, at the moment, once the time comes that any recordings are leaving them with clipped recordings, or lost recordings, due to tuner allocation issues.
> 
> I'm sure many TiVo users can be fine with a Fisher Price model TiVo, and love the simplicity. I'm not one of them. I am a power user, who wants the few TiVo power user options left available, even if mostly hidden behind a simpleton interface.


Absolutely. There are power users out here. I'm OTA-only, and my 4-tuner Roamio has a total of 192 season passes. 84 are duplicates that will disappear when converted to OnePasses. 68 of those can be handled by moving them to another TiVo, but 16 would require the use of a third or fourth TiVo unless I can work around some OnePass limitations by judicious deselecting of different channels on the two TiVos and use of all-channel OnePasses with HD priority.



nooneuknow said:


> I could add more TiVos to "fix" the problem. But, I already have two more of them than most do, and shouldn't have to do so.


Yes, we should not be forced to use multiple TiVos. At least I may be able to get most of the flexibility that I have now (with one TiVo Roamio) by using one Roamio plus one Premiere, but if I didn't already have both units I would be even more irritated.



nooneuknow said:


> I laughed at a post in some thread a while back, where a user thought maybe their 32 SPs were too many for their Roamio Plus to handle, and the reason for their issues. Then, I wondered just how many people use their TiVos in such a limited manner...


And as you said elsewhere, TiVo still needs to bring back (working correctly) the single-tuner overlap that any high-end DVR should have, and many of the 20.4.6 limitations may be due to lack of talented programmers.

I have spent many years developing workarounds for limitations in computer hardware, software and programming languages, and I don't like it when someone pulls the rug out from under me by changing everything to thwart my efforts.


----------



## jcthorne

Arcady said:


> Again, I never said moving video on or off the TiVo is a hack or unsupported.
> 
> Monkeying around with metadata and forcing movies into a folder is not something I would expect any support for. It could be broken at any time. It is not in any way normal end-user activity. Therefore it is a hack.


I disagree. There are instances of movies going into folders as recorded from OTA tv. The series Elvira's Movie Macabre where she hosted and commented on a series of grade b horror flics on late night tv was an example. There were no episodes and they did indeed group in a folder. I recorded that series for years. Saving them and pushing them back to the tivo they returned to a folder.

Using this same functionality is not a hack. Its intended functionality.

If you still disagree, we will have to agree to disagree on this point and move on. You use your tivo your way and I'll use mine my way. Just dont tell me my way is a hack that should not be discussed or supported. Its no less standard functionality than nested multiple SPs that have been made ineffective by the current update.


----------



## bradleys

Tivogre said:


> Ok... So, TiVo can build OnePass that shows STREAMING shows in a single list with recordings, but they still can't / won't integrate recordings from multiple to is in the same house into that list?!? C'mon Tivo!


Once tivo implemented and deployed the Roamio / mini combination, I think the idea of a consolidated NPL went away. And frankly probably isn't nearly as intriguing an idea as it was just a few years ago.

I would like to see tivo modernize the tivo desktop and allow MRS from a network drive.


----------



## bradleys

keenanSR said:


> How about a screen saver function? Why doesn't TiVo have that ability?


The tivo mini does have a screen saver, tivo uses live TV as a screen saver for the base tivo units.


----------



## bradleys

jcthorne said:


> I disagree. There are instances of movies going into folders as recorded from OTA tv. The series Elvira's Movie Macabre where she hosted and commented on a series of grade b horror flics on late night tv was an example. There were no episodes and they did indeed group in a folder. I recorded that series for years. Saving them and pushing them back to the tivo they returned to a folder.
> 
> Using this same functionality is not a hack. Its intended functionality.
> 
> If you still disagree, we will have to agree to disagree on this point and move on. You use your tivo your way and I'll use mine my way. Just dont tell me my way is a hack that should not be discussed or supported. Its no less standard functionality than nested multiple SPs that have been made ineffective by the current update.


To know if it is a broken hack versus some unintended change we would have to look at the data level to see how tivo is now using the data.

I think Arcady is just saying it is a hack because it is a manual manipulation of the metadata. I suspect once we look at the changes implemented, the feature can be recreated with a slightly different aproach.


----------



## keenanSR

bradleys said:


> The tivo mini does have a screen saver, tivo uses live TV as a screen saver for the base tivo units.


Right, live TV, I'm talking about when in a paused state.


----------



## grimmace92

I sent Margret the details and chatted with TiVo this morning about it. I have to wait until a particular show is recording to see if it happens again. Each show can have a different copy protection code on it apparently.


----------



## L David Matheny

RoyK said:


> Nor does it conflict with the name OnePass which I fully expect is the major reason that multiple SPs were removed in the first place having worked with marketing folks for many years and having some understanding of their mind sets.


I don't think TiVo would be silly enough to eliminate multiple SPs just because "OnePass" contains the word "One". The "One" should refer to one type of pass to draw content from many different sources, which is a nice feature. But I suspect (like nooneuknow and others) that TiVoMargret's comment about something being "too complicated" was more a reflection of their available programming talent than an assumption of abject stupidity on the part of their users. I think TiVo has always aspired to be like Apple in making complex devices simple to use, but this OnePass concept has overtaxed their programming staff. I hope they'll fix some of the limitations eventually.


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> I don't think TiVo would be silly enough to eliminate multiple SPs just because "OnePass" contains the word "One". The "One" should refer to one type of pass to draw content from many different sources, which is a nice feature. But I suspect (like nooneuknow and others) that TiVoMargret's comment about something being "too complicated" was more a reflection of their available programming talent than an assumption of abject stupidity on the part of their users. I think TiVo has always aspired to be like Apple in making complex devices simple to use, but this OnePass concept has overtaxed their programming staff. I hope they'll fix some of the limitations eventually.


I believe her comment was suggesting that this was a design decision. OnePass is designed to find and present entire seasons of content no matter what the source. Under that scenerio, there is no need for multiple season passes...

It is this competing concept of assigning lower priority to one class of content than another class of content for the same show that didn't get addressed.

And to try to address this limited use case in a way that meets the design standards does start to get difficult.

Difficult to design in a way that doesn't exaserbate the inconsistencies of the two approaches for capturing content and that doesn't create more issues than it solves for unsuspecting users.

The best solution I have seen is the suggestion of enhancing wish-lists to allow a user to select an individual channel.

But if you guys are suggesting the solution is simple, you are not seeing the forest for the trees.


----------



## RoyK

keenanSR said:


> How about a screen saver function? Why doesn't TiVo have that ability?


A screen saver had a function ( to 'save' screens from burn-in of a static image) back in the ancient days of stone tools and CRT displays. Today's screen aren't subject to that damage so screen savers aren't necessary even though they may be kind of neat as peasant amazers


----------



## bradleys

keenanSR said:


> Right, live TV, I'm talking about when in a paused state.


Pause the TV and wait... Once the buffer runs out it drops back down to live TV. Leave it on a menu too long and it drops back to live TV.

Leave the Mini on a menu too long and it drops to a screen saver.


----------



## L David Matheny

RoyK said:


> A screen saver had a function ( to 'save' screens from burn-in of a static image) back in the ancient days of stone tools and CRT displays. Today's screen aren't subject to that damage so screen savers aren't necessary even though they may be kind of neat as peasant amazers


I suppose a screen saver could be helpful to people with plasma TVs, and it might even be helpful to those with new OLED TVs if those are also subject to burn-in. But maybe that could be a job for the TV, not the TiVo.


----------



## Arcady

bradleys said:


> Pause the TV and wait... Once the buffer runs out it drops back down to live TV. .


If you play a recording and hit pause, the TiVo will remain paused as long as power is connected. One time when I used to have a Series 2 in the garage (when I had a garage) I left to do something and hit pause, but I shut off the TV. I forgot all about it. It stayed paused for nearly two weeks.


----------



## lessd

aaronwt said:


> Where is the power setting located?


Under settings - devices -then you will see a menu the last item is the power settings, when using it look at the right of the screen that tells you what will happen at each level.
At high power saving setting I am saving about 8 to 9 watts, the Mini will work and all xfers will work, the TiVo itself will take about 10 seconds to wake up when you want to watch something on that TiVo, also if you don't use the remote for 2 hours the TiVo goes into standby, I have not tested this out for a 2+ hour Netflix movie as you may not use the remote in that time period.


----------



## keenanSR

L David Matheny said:


> I suppose a screen saver could be helpful to people with plasma TVs, and it might even be helpful to those with new OLED TVs if those are also subject to burn-in. But maybe that could be a job for the TV, not the TiVo.


Exactly, and why I was asking about it. I know it will eventually drop to live TV but as I recall it takes quite some time to do that, much too long for a plasma display.


----------



## keenanSR

bradleys said:


> Pause the TV and wait... Once the buffer runs out it drops back down to live TV. Leave it on a menu too long and it drops back to live TV.
> 
> Leave the Mini on a menu too long and it drops to a screen saver.


It would be far more useful if it was an actual screen saver and had a variable timer. Even just dropping into live TV with a user timer setting would be great.


----------



## keenanSR

RoyK said:


> A screen saver had a function ( to 'save' screens from burn-in of a static image) back in the ancient days of stone tools and CRT displays. Today's screen aren't subject to that damage so screen savers aren't necessary even though they may be kind of neat as peasant amazers


Leap-frogged over LED displays, went from CRT to plasma, never saw an LED display that had good enough picture quality.


----------



## Arcady

keenanSR said:


> Leap-frogged over LED displays, went from CRT to plasma, never saw an LED display that had good enough picture quality.


There's no such thing as an LED display. There are LCD displays that have LED backlighting. I wish the people that market TV sets would understand what they are actually selling.

Plasma is heavy, power-hungry, and susceptible to burn-in. No thanks.


----------



## keenanSR

Arcady said:


> There's no such thing as an LED display. There are LCD displays that have LED backlighting. I wish the people that market TV sets would understand what they are actually selling.
> 
> Plasma is heavy, power-hungry, and susceptible to burn-in. No thanks.


But has far better picture quality than an LED/LCD.


----------



## justen_m

I want to say, "I apologize." For things I've said, slandering the tivo development team or margret.

This isn't in the face of a threat of lawsuit or anything. I said things out of anger that were not appropriate. Including a bug report. I am sorry. Especially to yo Maggie, who spends lots of time on time forum answering us newbies*.


----------



## lessd

keenanSR said:


> But has far better picture quality than an LED/LCD.


Todays high end LCD HDTV have a picture as good a any Plasma I have seen, maybe the black is a little better on the Plasma, but not enough to matter, at least to me.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> I think Arcady is just saying it is a hack because it is a manual manipulation of the metadata. I suspect once we look at the changes implemented, the feature can be recreated with a slightly different aproach.


I get your point, but using metadata to upload something to Tivo is not a hack in the traditional use of the term. With Arcady's definition, simply adding a director, writer or actor to the metadata txt file would be a "hack" and I doubt you'd agree that's the case.

Your second point is exactly where we are at this point, trying to figure out how Tivo deals with specific metadata, so we can come up with something that is supported and does what we want. I don't know if multiple SPs was a conscious design feature. If it was, it shouldn't have been changed without considering what it would do to those who use the feature. I doubt the programmers consciously designed them in, they just happened to work. Similarly, the way I was editing metadata to upload movies to a group was probably not a design feature ether and it's broken too.


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> ......... The other nits about the dates, sort, etc... are bugs they can fix, but this is a fundamental change to how the system works, and I'm surprised that they went this route. ..........





PeterLAX said:


> This. I agree wholeheartedly. If I wanted a streaming device, there are numerous other options out there. I own a TiVo for it's DVR capabilities. Why all this emphasis on pushing streaming into your "My Shows" list anyway? Has this been a hotly requested feature in the past?


It's because they've seen the future and the writing on the wall and are steering towards being a major player in the OTA DVR/Streaming box solution for cord cutters.

(Sorry for reviving an old post, I'm just catching up on this thread)


----------



## Arcady

keenanSR said:


> But has far better picture quality than an LED/LCD.


Perhaps. My main TV, where I connected my Roamio Pro, is still a CCFL-backlit LCD running at 60hz. And I quite like it. I have an LCD/LED at 120hz in the bedroom, and I think it looks too "real" somehow. The only plasma I ever owned had image blur, was slow to turn on/off, and was only 720p. That was like 10 years ago, so I assume they have improved.

Anyway, I don't get the need for a screensaver. If you are going to walk away for more than 10 minutes, turn off the TV.


----------



## jcthorne

bradleys said:


> I suspect once we look at the changes implemented, the feature can be recreated with a slightly different aproach.


This is my fervent hope for this and several of the new 'features'.


----------



## bradleys

jcthorne said:


> This is my fervent hope for this and several of the new 'features'.


We have to accept that anything "we" create is subseptable to breaking during an update,


----------



## aaronwt

lessd said:


> Under settings - devices -then you will see a menu the last item is the power settings, when using it look at the right of the screen that tells you what will happen at each level.
> At high power saving setting I am saving about 8 to 9 watts, the Mini will work and all xfers will work, the TiVo itself will take about 10 seconds to wake up when you want to watch something on that TiVo, also if you don't use the remote for 2 hours the TiVo goes into standby, I have not tested this out for a 2+ hour Netflix movie as you may not use the remote in that time period.


That sounds like a decent amount of savings. Where are the power savings supposed to be coming from?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> We have to accept that anything "we" create is subseptable to breaking during an update,


That's true to a degree, but it seems like some of the problem has been that we were just using what worked rather that digging deep enough to understand how the data was really being process so we could have done it the "right" way. I simply can't believe it's not possible to do things so they follow a standard and won't get broken in the future. Any programmer knows that if documented conventions are followed, things won't intentionally get broken.


----------



## bradleys

DoubleDAZ said:


> That's true to a degree, but it seems like some of the problem has been that we were just using what worked rather that digging deep enough to understand how the data was really being process so we could have done it the "right" way. I simply can't believe it's not possible to do things so they follow a standard and won't get broken in the future. Any programmer knows that if documented conventions are followed, things won't intentionally get broken.


This is probably the biggest single change in how our TiVo's operate I can ever remember. A lot of UI changes, hardware changes, speed changes, new functionality - but never a direct specific change to a core function of the DVR.

It may take a little time to determine if tivo got it right or made an error, and it may take some tweaking.

In the end, it doesn't suprise me that it broke some a custom tool, and I supose it really doesn't suprise me that a number of long time users are upset.

Change is hard.


----------



## reneg

slowbiscuit said:


> For example I have a NASCAR ARWL that only records new Sprint Cup or Xfinity (formerly Nationwide) races. No qualifying, no practice, no truck series etc. Doesn't matter what channel it's on. Same for all other racing series (F1, IndyCar, MotoGP etc.).


Off topic but thanks, I need to change my NASCAR ARWL to pick up Xfinity instead of Nationwide

.


----------



## lgnad

I haven't seen any discussion of the cleanup of the "Watch now/See all options" screen (Which is then titled "Get from...")

It used to be an ugly list, with rents and buys from all the different sources seemingly almost randomly listed. Its MUCH improved, with the smaller font and columns, you can see all your choices, clear and easy to pick from. (See attached Image)

The xfinity option is erroring at the moment, of course lol


----------



## rgr

Looking at a group in "My Shows"

Option C: what is the difference between "All Episodes" "My Episodes" "Recordings?"

I know it has something to do with streaming content, but for some reason I'm just blanking on the difference.

SeasonPass wasn't broken for me, and I don't have much use for adding the streaming content. So the extra options just add complexity for me - wish I could just have option to exclude the streaming stuff and get back to basic SeasonPass.


----------



## joewom

rgr said:


> Looking at a group in "My Shows"
> 
> Option C: what is the difference between "All Episodes" "My Episodes" "Recordings?"
> 
> I know it has something to do with streaming content, but for some reason I'm just blanking on the difference.
> 
> SeasonPass wasn't broken for me, and I don't have much use for adding the streaming content. So the extra options just add complexity for me - wish I could just have option to exclude the streaming stuff and get back to basic SeasonPass.


You can exclude streaming option. I have none on my one passes and it shows no streaming episodes.


----------



## RoyK

L David Matheny said:


> I don't think TiVo would be silly enough to eliminate multiple SPs just because "OnePass" contains the word "One"....


So you feel it's merely coincidence that with the current system you can have multiple passes but with the new "OnePass" system you can only have one pass? Can't agree there. Unfortunately if I'm correct we'll probably never know. I sure wouldn't own up to it if I represented TiVo.


----------



## bradleys

All Episodes - all episodes available (season 1 through season n)

My Episodes - episodes I have indicated I want (season 4 through season n)

Recordings - just those episodes I have physically recorded.


----------



## dianebrat

lessd said:


> Todays high end LCD HDTV have a picture as good a any Plasma I have seen, maybe the black is a little better on the Plasma, but not enough to matter, at least to me.


I beg to differ, in my experience they don't, I had a Pioneer Kuro, and now a Panasonic VT60, both considerably outclass any current LCD unit I can find.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> So you feel it's merely coincidence that with the current system you can have multiple passes but with the new "OnePass" system you can only have one pass? Can't agree there. Unfortunately if I'm correct we'll probably never know. I sure wouldn't own up to it if I represented TiVo.


From an earlier post:



bradleys said:


> I believe her comment was suggesting that this was a design decision. OnePass is designed to find and present entire seasons of content no matter what the source. Under that scenerio, there is no need for multiple season passes...
> 
> It is this competing concept of assigning lower priority to one class of content than another class of content for the same show that didn't get addressed.
> 
> And to try to address this limited use case in a way that meets the design standards does start to get difficult.
> 
> Difficult to design in a way that doesn't exaserbate the inconsistencies of the two approaches for capturing content and that doesn't create more issues than it solves for unsuspecting users.
> 
> The best solution I have seen is the suggestion of enhancing wish-lists to allow a user to select an individual channel.
> 
> But if you guys are suggesting the solution is simple, you are not seeing the forest for the trees.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rgr said:


> Looking at a group in "My Shows"
> 
> Option C: what is the difference between "All Episodes" "My Episodes" "Recordings?"
> 
> I know it has something to do with streaming content, but for some reason I'm just blanking on the difference.
> 
> SeasonPass wasn't broken for me, and I don't have much use for adding the streaming content. So the extra options just add complexity for me - wish I could just have option to exclude the streaming stuff and get back to basic SeasonPass.


Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I'm seeing:

- "recordings" shows just the episodes that have been recorded in your Tivo.
- - display for The Americans has 1 episode that has been recorded.

- "my episodes" shows those recordings plus streaming episodes that are available. I can't confirm, but I believe the streams are limited to the season you elected to start with in the One Pass options.
- - display adds 13 episodes from each of seasons 1 and 2 that are available to stream.

- "all episodes" shows the episodes that have been recorded plus the streaming episodes PLUS future episodes that are in Tivo's database.
- - display adds episodes 2, 3, 4 , 5, 6 & 9 from season 3. Since only 2 and 3 are in the guide, I assume the others are already in their database.

As for not adding streaming, the default One Pass option is for recordings only.


----------



## RoyK

> OnePass is designed to find and present entire seasons of content no matter what the source. Under that scenerio, there is no need for multiple season passes...


Under that scenario there is no need for season passes at all except maybe for new only...


----------



## bradleys

@DoubleDAZ - hmm, I am not seeing future episodes, but I do see "extra content"


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Under that scenario there is no need for season passes at all except maybe for new only...


Sorry not following...

OnePass presents all available content no matter the source and presents it in season order - new included.

I am betting much (not all) of the content people have second, lower priority, SP's for are also available via streaming and would be presented anyway.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> Under that scenario there is no need for season passes at all except maybe for new only...


Not true. You still need the options to limit what you record and what gets displayed, more than just New Only. The capability is there to get all content, but that doesn't mean it should all get displayed. Can you imagine the uproar if everything was displayed with no option to limit thing to just recordings?

That said, if they actually thought about multiple One Passes and decided that was too difficult to program/manage, then they should have considered adding more options to Wish Lists, especially channel. My guess is they simply didn't think about it and any rationale they give now is just CYA. 

But let's be honest, not being able to record new episodes while limiting reruns to a single channel is not going to stop the earth from rotating and neither it my inability to group uploaded movies and sort them in name sequence. It's just frustrating that they didn't bother to do a survey to see what some power users are up to and try not to break those things. Even if they don't see a need for something like Name sorting, why have Name in My Shows as an option and then not provide it in series groups?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> @DoubleDAZ - hmm, I am not seeing future episodes, but I do see "extra content"


I'm looking at my group for The Americans on FX. I just started recording with S3:E1 and it shows me S1-S2 for streaming and upcoming S3:E2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 9. Scrolling through, I get descriptions for 2, 3, 4 and 5, but blanks for 6 and 9. If I select S3:E2, it gives me the description, but since it's not recorded yet, the option is to delete. If I Explore it and choose Upcoming, it shows the reruns for S3:E1 and new broadcasts for S3:E2.


----------



## lpwcomp

aaronwt said:


> That sounds like a decent amount of savings. Where are the power savings supposed to be coming from?


I presume that it is spinning down the disk since it ceases recording and there is a delay when coming out of it.

In addition to the automatic setting, putting the TiVo in standby also does whatever it is doing, which is annoying to me. I use standby to avoid recording the EAS messages but I also like the live buffers. Now I have to choose. Probably just not put it in standby anymore, especially since I have no idea if it still avoids recording the EAS messages.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> I am betting much (not all) of the content people have second, lower priority, SP's for are also available via streaming and would be presented anyway.


Probably true, but my guess is someone might be "archiving" a series on their PC via the reruns on the channel that is broadcasting them in order.  They can still do that, it just takes a lot more work to manage the recordings.


----------



## bradleys

Dave

I am trying hard to keep an open mind but for most people what the OnePass offers is going to be fantastic.


Start from a season... 1, 2, 3, etc...
Get from steaming, channels, free, pay...
Get new, repeats
So if want to physically have the last couple seasons of Dr. Who I can say start at season 6 and record new and repeats. Include streaming services.

Tivo will record the everything from season 6 forward that it finds, new and repeats.

From My Shows I can select Dr. Who and filter by:


my episodes - season 6 and forward
All episodes - seson 1 and forward
Recordings -'those episodes I have recorded

This works very well - this scenerio works really well because all back episodes are on Netflix, but it is a scenerio that will be pretty common for long running, popular series.

The only thing that doesn't work is this fringe lower priority random past episode / SD episode that some users are using. I get it - but _*OnePass offers a whole lot of functionality compare to that single use case that most people would never consider.*_


----------



## bradleys

DoubleDAZ said:


> Probably true, but my guess is someone might be "archiving" a series on their PC via the reruns on the channel that is broadcasting them in order.  They can still do that, it just takes a lot more work to manage the recordings.


Archiving old series content? Like the Simpsons or Friends?

They play so often on regular tv what is the purpose of archiving them? Never mind, purpose isn't the important point, just that people want to do it.

I do not really see how the OnePass makes that any less of an option than Season Passes...


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> Archiving old series content? Like the Simpsons or Friends?
> 
> They play so often on regular tv what is the purpose of archiving them? Never mind, purpose isn't the important point, just that people want to do it.
> 
> I do not really see how the OnePass makes that any less of an option than Season Passes...


The problem is in the area of priorities and conflict resolution.


----------



## bradleys

lpwcomp said:


> The problem is in the area of priorities and conflict resolution.


With 4+ tuners, conflicts are a lot less common - has anyone actually missed a recording since the update?

Also, I need to run a test, because I believe tivo gives a higher priority to a first run OnePass episode with a priority 10 than a random repeat for a OnePass with a priority 1. (With six tuners, that is a hard test to setup)

I will tell you what, if I start missing all my new episodes because 5 year old repeats are using up all my tuners - I will agree with you, but so far that is not the behavior I am seeing.

And for a long running show on Netflix or Amazon Prime, there isn't any reason to get anything other than present season content. And OnePass is great for that!

All past seasons of Big Bang theory are on Netflix, but I just started watching it and want to get all of this season too.

Start with season 8, new and repeats, all channels and streaming. That is awesome, I can pick up older content but record for only the newest repeats!

Try that with a Season Pass!


----------



## lpwcomp

Padding uses up tuners very quickly, especially in a muti-user household.


----------



## bradleys

Have you missed any primary content because you weren't able to set a repeat only second season pass to a lower priority?

I have two older girls and a wife - I have been heavily testing and recording a lot more repeats than I normally would, and I haven't...

Funny thing is, most of the guys who are complaining the loudest have more than one tivo... They can still separate, but that isn't really the point, is it?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> Dave
> 
> I am trying hard to keep an open mind but for most people what the OnePass offers is going to be fantastic.


I love One Pass and said so the first day. It broke my movies group, but that is no big deal and just gives me something to do looking for a new way to upload them to a group and sort them in Name sequence. I can't get that excited over my problem or not being able to set multiple passes to record The Simpsons, of all things (sorry, couldn't resist ).


----------



## bradleys

DoubleDAZ said:


> I love One Pass and said so the first day. It broke my movies group, but that is no big deal and just gives me something to do looking for a new way to upload them to a group and sort them in Name sequence. I can't get that excited over my problem or not being able to set multiple passes to record The Simpsons, of all things (sorry, couldn't resist ).


I bet your issue will be fixed pretty quickly - reach out to the PyTiVo guys.

I just noticed they are going to start another Simpsons marathon - dedicate a tuner and fill up your drive!


----------



## L David Matheny

DoubleDAZ said:


> But let's be honest, not being able to record new episodes while limiting reruns to a single channel is not going to stop the earth from rotating and neither it my inability to group uploaded movies and sort them in name sequence. It's just frustrating that they didn't bother to do a survey to see what some power users are up to and try not to break those things. Even if they don't see a need for something like Name sorting, why have Name in My Shows as an option and then not provide it in series groups?


No, of course this isn't the end of the world. But it does eliminate a scheduling system that was carefully honed over many years to do the job we expect it to do. If TiVo can't make the new OnePass system work as well as the old (multiple) season pass system for basic DVR functions, that may create a large competitive opportunity for other DVR makers to take advantage of, regardless of what new tricks the OnePass system can perform. I still hope TiVo can fix it.


----------



## morac

dianebrat said:


> I beg to differ, in my experience they don't, I had a Pioneer Kuro, and now a Panasonic VT60, both considerably outclass any current LCD unit I can find.


Quantum dot display LCD TVs are supposed to rival OLED for picture quality, so they should be more than a match for Plasma.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/08/why-the-quantum-dot-is-the-hottest-tv-tech-going/


----------



## Bytez

I still don't get why each program in OnePass doesn't list them start/end time and doesn't allow you to modify it. Also if you go go Upcoming, it shows the time 2 hours behind the start time.


----------



## ej42137

L David Matheny said:


> No, of course this isn't the end of the world. But it does eliminate a scheduling system that was carefully honed over many years to do the job we expect it to do. If TiVo can't make the new OnePass system work as well as the old (multiple) season pass system for basic DVR functions, that may create a large competitive opportunity for other DVR makers to take advantage of, regardless of what new tricks the OnePass system can perform. I still hope TiVo can fix it.


A viable competitor for TiVo? How great would that be!


----------



## realityboy

bradleys said:


> With 4+ tuners, conflicts are a lot less common - has anyone actually missed a recording since the update?
> 
> Also, I need to run a test, because I believe tivo gives a higher priority to a first run OnePass episode with a priority 10 than a random repeat for a OnePass with a priority 1. (With six tuners, that is a hard test to setup)
> 
> I will tell you what, if I start missing all my new episodes because 5 year old repeats are using up all my tuners - I will agree with you, but so far that is not the behavior I am seeing.
> 
> And for a long running show on Netflix or Amazon Prime, there isn't any reason to get anything other than present season content. And OnePass is great for that!
> 
> All past seasons of Big Bang theory are on Netflix, but I just started watching it and want to get all of this season too.
> 
> Start with season 8, new and repeats, all channels and streaming. That is awesome, I can pick up older content but record for only the newest repeats!
> 
> Try that with a Season Pass!


So did you run that test? That's the opposite of how I would expect the conflict resolution to work. I'm honestly happy for you that you don't have conflicts with your six tuners. I have 4 tuners on my only current Tivo and conflicts happen. You can't just waive them away by saying that they don't.

I've been trying to find ways to remedy the situation in a seperate thread over in the premiere forum. I'm pretty sure that what the workaround is, but I have to wait for my update.

Your dismissive tone to the issue is honestly what brought me back to this thread. It's not a problem for everyone, but to dismiss legitimate complaints only serves to heighten people's frustration. The people complaining are likely not the anti-change luddites that you might believe them to be. These are people that are fans of TiVo and are reading update notes for a new feature that they most likely were looking forward to.


----------



## realityboy

ggieseke said:


> This is off topic, but OnePass has a nice benefit that I stumbled on yesterday. You can set the starting season for British or Canadian series with an OAD that doesn't pass the New Only test here, change it to New & Reruns, and it will pick up new episodes without flooding you with X years of ancient reruns.


Also, this feature sounds fantastic.


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> Also, I need to run a test, because I believe tivo gives a higher priority to a first run OnePass episode with a priority 10 than a random repeat for a OnePass with a priority 1. (With six tuners, that is a hard test to setup)


Feel free to test it yourself, but _*I*_ assumed that it would be nearly impossible for the scheduler to work that way.. I tested it and was correct. It works purely on 1P priority, just as it did with SPs.

Personally, I ain't got no dog in this hunt. I don't have multiple SPs for the same show on the same TiVo nor do I have much use for the new capabilities of One Pass. I can however understand the problems that are created by the changes.


----------



## rgr

DoubleDAZ said:


> Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I'm seeing:
> 
> - "recordings" shows just the episodes that have been recorded in your Tivo.
> - - display for The Americans has 1 episode that has been recorded.
> 
> - "my episodes" shows those recordings plus streaming episodes that are available. I can't confirm, but I believe the streams are limited to the season you elected to start with in the One Pass options.
> - - display adds 13 episodes from each of seasons 1 and 2 that are available to stream.
> 
> - "all episodes" shows the episodes that have been recorded plus the streaming episodes PLUS future episodes that are in Tivo's database.
> - - display adds episodes 2, 3, 4 , 5, 6 & 9 from season 3. Since only 2 and 3 are in the guide, I assume the others are already in their database.
> 
> As for not adding streaming, the default One Pass option is for recordings only.


Thanks, that's very clear. (And thanks to bradleys for hus succinct response as well).

Oddly enough, when I went to create a test OnePass the default was recording & streaming - I had to go into setting to change the default to be streaming only. All my converted OnePasses had recordings only, which makes sense.


----------



## Johncv

grimmace92 said:


> I sent Margret the details and chatted with TiVo this morning about it. I have to wait until a particular show is recording to see if it happens again. Each show can have a different copy protection code on it apparently.


Different copy protection code, please explain??


----------



## jcthorne

bradleys said:


> We have to accept that anything "we" create is subseptable to breaking during an update,


Tivo is quite capable of breaking their own features too. Happens every update it seems. None are exempt.....


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> I bet your issue will be fixed pretty quickly - reach out to the PyTiVo guys.
> 
> I just noticed they are going to start another Simpsons marathon - dedicate a tuner and fill up your drive!


It's not me with The Simpsons, it's someone else wanting to do that. And there's already a thread in the pyTivo area where some of us are working on grouping movies, etc. I just mention it here as something that was changed as a result of the One Pass update.


----------



## realityboy

DoubleDAZ said:


> It's not me with The Simpsons, it's someone else wanting to do that. And there's already a thread in the pyTivo area where some of us are working on grouping movies, etc. I just mention it here as something that was changed as a result of the One Pass update.


Lol. That's specifically what I do not want to do. I have a low priority sp so it only records when there's no conflict. It gives me something to watch in the morning when I'm cleaning or just generally not dedicating myself to what's on tv. The constant marathons would cause so many conflicts if it was a high priority, but I've explained that multiple times.

Honestly, is it such a fringe use that I record repeats occasionally? I'm not streaming, transferring, or archiving anything. I'm literally just recording shows on my Tivo and watching them.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

L David Matheny said:


> No, of course this isn't the end of the world. But it does eliminate a scheduling system that was carefully honed over many years to do the job we expect it to do. If TiVo can't make the new OnePass system work as well as the old (multiple) season pass system for basic DVR functions, that may create a large competitive opportunity for other DVR makers to take advantage of, regardless of what new tricks the OnePass system can perform. I still hope TiVo can fix it.


And I do as well, even though I've never set multiples. "Carefully honed" is debatable though. That assumes the multiple SP feature was specifically "designed in" and not just something they didn't specifically disallow. My guess is that until they added streaming to the mix, they didn't even think about multiple SPs and they simply worked, just like my uploading movies to a group did. I see the programming dilemma they'd face trying to program around the various combinations of options for multiple 1Ps, though I don't believe the programmers are not capable of doing so (as some have suggested). Tivo made a decision that doesn't sit well with some and now they have to decide if they're going to "fix" it or just ignore it.

One option I just thought of for the Simpsons problem is to (temporarily) set up a manual recording for the new episodes on the local Fox channel and set up a 1P for the reruns on FX. The manual recording will obviously record some things not wanted, but that might be easier to manage than a 1P for the new episodes and a WL that would get reruns on all channels.


----------



## aaronwt

morac said:


> Quantum dot display LCD TVs are supposed to rival OLED for picture quality, so they should be more than a match for Plasma.
> 
> http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/08/why-the-quantum-dot-is-the-hottest-tv-tech-going/


Plasma is basically a dead tech now, or will be soon anyway.


----------



## aaronwt

Bytez said:


> I still don't get why each program in OnePass doesn't list them start/end time and doesn't allow you to modify it. Also if you go go Upcoming, it shows the time 2 hours behind the start time.


I just checked a few of my Season Passes One Passes and they show the proper times for upcoming episodes.


----------



## realityboy

DoubleDAZ said:


> And I do as well, even though I've never set multiples. "Carefully honed" is debatable though. That assumes the multiple SP feature was specifically "designed in" and not just something they didn't specifically disallow. My guess is that until they added streaming to the mix, they didn't even think about multiple SPs and they simply worked, just like my uploading movies to a group did. I see the programming dilemma they'd face trying to program around the various combinations of options for multiple 1Ps, though I don't believe the programmers are not capable of doing so (as some have suggested). Tivo made a decision that doesn't sit well with some and now they have to decide if they're going to "fix" it or just ignore it.
> 
> One option I just thought of for the Simpsons problem is to (temporarily) set up a manual recording for the new episodes on the local Fox channel and set up a 1P for the reruns on FX. The manual recording will obviously record some things not wanted, but that might be easier to manage than a 1P for the new episodes and a WL that would get reruns on all channels.


Wishlist for the new episodes confines the wishlist to one channel since that's the only place with new episodes. OnePass for the repeats. Should work pretty much the same as now. :up:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10390527#post10390527


----------



## DigitalDawn

morac said:


> Quantum dot display LCD TVs are supposed to rival OLED for picture quality, so they should be more than a match for Plasma.
> 
> http://venturebeat.com/2015/01/08/why-the-quantum-dot-is-the-hottest-tv-tech-going/


Not really.

Quantum Dot is just another way to light LCD pixels. This technology will still have most of the same inherent flaws found in current LCD panels.


----------



## grimmace92

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/243


----------



## DigitalDawn

dianebrat said:


> I beg to differ, in my experience they don't, I had a Pioneer Kuro, and now a Panasonic VT60, both considerably outclass any current LCD unit I can find.


Agreed. Plasma has several advantages over any type of LCD panel:

better contrast ratio
better black levels
better shadow detail
better motion
better off-axis viewing

IMO there's really no contest. It's a shame that economies of scale have put plasma out of business.

The only light on the horizon is that OLED is coming down in price, and hopefully will have faster pixel response in the future.


----------



## dianebrat

aaronwt said:


> Plasma is basically a dead tech now, or will be soon anyway.


Unfortunately.. cost efficiency and 4K killed it, but it doesn't detract from it being the king of picture quality for many years.

I'll believe something can replace it in quality when the reviews start saying an LCD or OLED based set is a "kuro killer" and as far as I've seen that's not happened.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## mlsnyc

realityboy said:


> Your dismissive tone to the issue is honestly what brought me back to this thread. It's not a problem for everyone, but to dismiss legitimate complaints only serves to heighten people's frustration. The people complaining are likely not the anti-change luddites that you might believe them to be. These are people that are fans of TiVo and are reading update notes for a new feature that they most likely were looking forward to.


Agree very much with this. There are a vocal few who have taken to belittling and dismissing those who are simply looking for solutions to losing a feature that has proven useful, even if we have not directly or indirectly criticized OnePass as a whole. To say we're stuck in the past (really?!?! liking to watch reruns of our favorite shows is the same as being against change??) or to say it won't be a problem because 4+ tuners means there'll never be any conflicts is not constructive.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

realityboy said:


> Honestly, is it such a fringe use that I record repeats occasionally? I'm not streaming, transferring, or archiving anything. I'm literally just recording shows on my Tivo and watching them.


It's not fringe at all to want to record reruns. What is fringe is wanting to record new episodes at a high priority and reruns of the same show at a lower priority, though I can certainly see the merit in doing so. With only a single 1P, they all have the same priority. As a result, some reruns could very well get recorded at the expense of a new episode of something else, not a good situation at all. I rarely record reruns, but the solution might be as simple as always favoring a new episode over a rerun when there is a conflict.

I did set up a 1P for the Simpsons, mostly because I'm curious now to see how seasons are sorted. Anyway, there was 1 conflict with a new episode of another show. It told me it would clip the Simpsons, but because new 1Ps go to the bottom on the list, the Simpsons had the lower priority. I moved it up the list, but that didn't appear to change which show would be clipped and I can't tell what will happen the following week when the same conflict occurs. So, I'm going to leave it and see what happens.

I admit I missed the priority aspect when this issue was first raised. I still think it's a fringe problem, but I see it more clearly now. I'm a pretty simple guy. All my 1Ps are for "New only" and when I switched to a Tivo I put them all in name sequence. However, I need to rethink that even though I have 6 tuners. Network shows don't have reruns, but cable shows do, so I always want the network shows to record when there are conflicts. If there is a conflict, then I simply record the cable rerun.


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> ..... That assumes the multiple SP feature was specifically "designed in" and not just something they didn't specifically disallow...


And your explanation for the menu item to create another season pass for this program is???


----------



## reneg

bradleys said:


> Archiving old series content? Like the Simpsons or Friends?
> 
> They play so often on regular tv what is the purpose of archiving them? ...


There are three reasons I archive tv shows:
1) Portability to other devices on my terms.
2) Edit out commercials.
3) Full show - reruns are frequently edited so that even more commercials can be shown.


----------



## slowbiscuit

ggieseke said:


> This is off topic, but OnePass has a nice benefit that I stumbled on yesterday. You can set the starting season for British or Canadian series with an OAD that doesn't pass the New Only test here, change it to New & Reruns, and it will pick up new episodes without flooding you with X years of ancient reruns.





realityboy said:


> Also, this feature sounds fantastic.


I just tried this with Wheeler Dealers (a well-known show with OAD issues, causing missed eps due to never knowing when a new season is aired) and it didn't work - changed my 1P to start at Season 11 w/new and repeats and it scheduled a bunch of shows that didn't have season/ep numbers in them (old stuff from years ago). Looks like the usual conservative approach to record anyway if stuff is missing, like it's always done with generic show descriptions.

So this approach might work if all eps have season/ep numbers, but you'd also have to update the 1P every year to bump the season up to current in order to not record the prior year's stuff when the season changes.

In other words, there's still no good answer for OAD issues.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## JoeKustra

nooneuknow said:


> Doesn't anybody think past "Oh, cool, this is new!" ????


Not usually. If I want to stream I use a streaming device. If I want to record (and/or save) I use a recording device. Seems logical.


----------



## bradleys

I get that you guys are using a specific feature - the downside is that you are so focused on the one item that even in your own worlds isn't a significant usage, that you aren't even looking at the product as a whole.

Isn't being able to start a OnePass at a specific season at least a little intriguing? Don't you find the ability to mix streaming and recorded content into a single menu to be groundbreaking?

Yeah, I know... "But tivo took something away and I am going to stomp my feet and not let anyone talk good about the product until they give it back"

*I am simply trying to break through the noise and explain / discuss the features that exist. Most people do not use multiple SP's for a single show so hopefully somebody will appreciate the effort.*

@nooneuknow - I wanted to mention for some time, your posts are too long, it takes a dedicated person to actually make it through them, even if you are on target... There is a reason for the term TL : DR

Streaming services are huge with major market share improvments year over year. I think it is very smart for tivo to try to do something unique by consolidating linear TV. And straming content.

I think that answers you response - frankly I didn't read the whole thing.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

JoeKustra said:


> Not usually. If I want to stream I use a streaming device. If I want to record (and/or save) I use a recording device. Seems logical.


We having been beating tivo up for years for not innovating and not pushing forward. Streaming content is a huge part of the future and nobody has even attmpted to integrat linear and streaming content.

This is ground breaking stuff and we are going to quibble, threaten arbitration (good luck with that), threaten mob assassinations because they have taken away a feature that the great majority of tivo users have never even considered?

Think about that for just a minute?


----------



## L David Matheny

DoubleDAZ said:


> "Carefully honed" is debatable though. That assumes the multiple SP feature was specifically "designed in" and not just something they didn't specifically disallow. My guess is that until they added streaming to the mix, they didn't even think about multiple SPs and they simply worked, just like my uploading movies to a group did. I see the programming dilemma they'd face trying to program around the various combinations of options for multiple 1Ps, though I don't believe the programmers are not capable of doing so (as some have suggested). Tivo made a decision that doesn't sit well with some and now they have to decide if they're going to "fix" it or just ignore it.


So you really think the current sophisticated scheduling logic (using multiple prioritized season passes) just happened by accident? Seriously? You can believe whatever you want (which is what most people usually do), but that kind of complex program code doesn't write itself. Programmers who knew exactly what they were doing have polished it into the smooth-working scheduler that is now being discarded. And if TiVo's current programming staff is capable of dealing with such complexity, why dumb it down?


----------



## DeltaOne

slowbiscuit said:


> I just tried this with Wheeler Dealers (a well-known show with OAD issues...


I've been wondering about the show Wheeler Dealers. Just last night saw a commercial for a new show later this week. But a recording isn't on my To Do list and the guide shows repeats that night.

Isn't there any way we can get the guide data fixed?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> So you really think the current sophisticated scheduling logic (using multiple prioritized season passes) just happened by accident? Seriously? You can believe whatever you want (which is what most people usually do), but that kind of complex program code doesn't write itself. Programmers who knew exactly what they were doing have polished it into the smooth-working scheduler that is now being discarded. And if TiVo's current programming staff is capable of dealing with such complexity, why dumb it down?


OnePass is designed to find and present entire seasons of content no matter what the source. Under that scenerio, there is no need for multiple season passes...

It is this competing concept of assigning lower priority to one class of content than another class of content for the same show that didn't get addressed.

And to try to address this limited use case in a way that meets the design standards does start to get difficult.

Difficult to design in a way that doesn't exaserbate the inconsistencies of the two approaches for capturing content and that doesn't create more issues than it solves for unsuspecting users.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> We having been beating tivo up for years for not innovating and not pushing forward. Streaming content is a huge part of the future and nobody has even attmpted to integrat linear and streaming content.
> 
> This is ground breaking stuff and we are going to quibble, threaten arbitration (good luck with that), threaten mob assassinations because they have taken away a feature that the great majority of tivo users have never even considered?
> 
> Think about that for just a minute?


Room temperature superconductivity would be ground breaking. Sticking some links into folders is slick but hardly groundbreaking.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Room temperature superconductivity would be ground breaking. Sticking some links into folders is slick but hardly groundbreaking.


In this space it is... And while I understand you a simply trying to make a point, the functionality goes far beyond simple links.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## wmcbrine

realityboy said:


> I have a low priority sp so it only records when there's no conflict. It gives me something to watch in the morning when I'm cleaning or just generally not dedicating myself to what's on tv.


Give the show three thumbs up and turn on Suggestions?


----------



## bradleys

wmcbrine said:


> Give the show three thumbs up and turn on Suggestions?


That is how I have always done it...
:up::up::up:


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## chiguy50

bradleys said:


> @nooneuknow - I wanted to mention for some time, your posts are too long, it takes a dedicated person to actually make it through them, even if you are on target... There is a reason for the term TL : DR


Well put--I'll second that. @nooneuknow: More concise and to-the-point writing would actually help you to make your case. I usually just skim over your posts because they are too verbose.

And, conversely, @bradleys: Your posts are atypically informative and well thought out. I enjoy reading them even when the topic is only of marginal interest to me. Thank you for contributing!


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

nooneuknow said:


> How on earth did I miss that???!!!??? All this bickering about it being some accidental, unintended, function, and you just came up with the answer to that debate! :up:
> 
> There is, indeed, a specific menu item (before OnePass), to *Get another Season Pass* (for the same program)!


Sure it existed, there was no reason for it not to exist - it had no competing / controdictory processing and it was a simple menu item.

In a database I can create the exact same record as long as it has a unique primary key - so why not?

The difficulty with OnePass it is designed from a different perspective. It is trying to consolidate from all sources a single view of your show.

The primary key now is the Show, thus creating conflict.

Could tivo develop a solution - sure anything can be developed. Would this solution be more trouble than it is worth? Tivo claims that it would be.

And tivo often takes a very narrow line on development strategy trying to develop an obvious user path for a CE device.

Here is your OnePass and here is your other OnePass... Huh?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

Sigh... Read the whole post please, it wasn't very long. This isn't conjecture, it is pretty obvious. I am not speaking for you in any way, I am commenting on the design decisions around OnePass and the removal of this feature you can't seem to be able to live without.

OnePass is designed to find and present entire seasons of content no matter what the source. Under that scenerio, there is no need for multiple season passes...

*It is this competing concept of assigning lower priority to one class of content than another class of content for the same show that didn't get addressed.*

And to try to address this limited use case in a way that meets the design standards does start to get difficult.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> ....
> Here is your OnePass and here is your other OnePass... Huh?


Precisely the kind of statement I've said I'd expect from a marketing weenie and the thinking that I'm convinced is ultimately behind the removal of multiple SPs..

I believe I've used two or three adjectives to describe my impression of OnePass all of them along the lines of "neat" or "Slick". I think OnePass is a great way to integrate streaming video. But as implemented has the unfortunate and unnecessary side effects that some of us who lean towards video recording are protesting.

Many programs are not available for streaming. In fact I'd assert that MOST programs are not available for streaming. Those that are are added cost and mostly highly compressed versions of the originals.


----------



## bradleys

@royk

Respectfully, then you don't understand the intent or design of OnePass. This has nothing to do with marketing. OnePass is designed to identify and present all episodes (configurable) against all sources (configurable) for a single show.

Season Passes were designed to find a record episodes of a show. See the difference? See why multiple season passes make sense and multiple onepass's start to enter a gray zone?

Thus what is the purpose of multiple OnePass's for a single show? Technically, if they were to have delivered an option for multiple onepass's they would have had to answer that question.

Also, how would the handle the output, same folder? Separate folder? How would they handle overlap of the logic or content?

It starts to get very confusing, and you have to answer those questions before you can deliver it to a customer.

Sorry, nothing simple about it once they changed the perspective of a season pass to a OnePass.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> And your explanation for the menu item to create another season pass for this program is???


I can no longer see the SP options. However, I don't recall there being a menu item to "create another" SP. If the process to create an SP noted the current SP and asked if you wanted to create another one, then I stand corrected and it was a design feature. If it simply created a 2nd SP and didn't note the 1st one, then IMO, it wasn't specifically designed in, it just happened to work.

And my comments are not meant to convey the idea that I'm not sympathetic to the problem, I am. I just don't think it's appropriate to basically call programmers idiots as some have done or call those who don't do things the same way "the lowest common denominator". Of course, that's the nature of the internet. 

And saying it's not the end of the world is not dismissing the problem either, it's just attempting to put things in perspective. There have been "workarounds" suggested, but that doesn't mean those who suggested them think they permanently solve the problem. Personally, being relatively new to Tivo, I never thought about multiple SPs because "Season Pass" means "A" season pass to me. However, I can see the priority issue and think something needs to be done to fix it. I need to realign all my 1Ps because I forgot why I used to have them separated by network and cable.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## ggieseke

slowbiscuit said:


> I just tried this with Wheeler Dealers (a well-known show with OAD issues, causing missed eps due to never knowing when a new season is aired) and it didn't work - changed my 1P to start at Season 11 w/new and repeats and it scheduled a bunch of shows that didn't have season/ep numbers in them (old stuff from years ago). Looks like the usual conservative approach to record anyway if stuff is missing, like it's always done with generic show descriptions.
> 
> So this approach might work if all eps have season/ep numbers, but you'd also have to update the 1P every year to bump the season up to current in order to not record the prior year's stuff when the season changes.
> 
> In other words, there's still no good answer for OAD issues.


Crap guide data will always be crap.

So far, changing the "start with season X" and changing New to New & Reruns has cleaned up a few long-time BBCA issues for me. YMMV depending on the quality of the data.

Updating the 1P yearly is something I can live with. I have several shows that I had given up on and just scheduled recordings manually by checking zap2it daily that any improvement is an improvement.

I'm hoping that the classic 28 day rule has been extended, but only time will tell. Every byte was precious on a 30GB Series 1, but keeping a longer history of what I've already recorded in the SQLite database shouldn't pose a problem on Premieres and Roamios.


----------



## slowbiscuit

bradleys said:


> Sigh... Read the whole post please, it wasn't very long. This isn't conjecture, it is pretty obvious. I am not speaking for you in any way, I am commenting on the design decisions around OnePass and the removal of this feature you can't seem to be able to live without.
> 
> OnePass is designed to find and present entire seasons of content no matter what the source. Under that scenerio, there is no need for multiple season passes...
> 
> *It is this competing concept of assigning lower priority to one class of content than another class of content for the same show that didn't get addressed.*
> 
> And to try to address this limited use case in a way that meets the design standards does start to get difficult.


Might be true for 1Ps the way they have them code now, but I'm not seeing the difficulty in adding a specific channel option to ARWLs (which would solve this case for almost every use). As mentioned before you can already create all the dupe ARWLs you want.


----------



## slowbiscuit

ggieseke said:


> I'm hoping that the classic 28 day rule has been extended, but only time will tell. Every byte was precious on a 30GB Series 1, but keeping a longer history of what I've already recorded in the SQLite database shouldn't pose a problem on Premieres and Roamios.


This is yet another Tivo design decision that's always bugged me - WMC, Myth etc. all keep track of everything you've recorded (forever) so it won't record anything again unless you tell it to. There's plenty of storage now, both local and online, to enable this.

This would solve a ton of the OAD issues, because New would always mean new to you and not bound by crappy guide data.


----------



## bradleys

nooneuknow said:


> 20.4.5 (pre OnePass) How to "Get another Season Pass"
> 
> My Shows (pick a series episode with an existing SP)
> Explore this show
> Get this show
> Season Pass options
> Get another Season Pass
> 
> This gets you the same "Season Pass Recording Options" screen as when the first SP was set up, and any other channels available with that program in the guide will be an option, as well as "all channels".
> 
> Is that proof enough for those who can't look (already updated)?
> 
> I walked through it just now.


It existed, I can look at my Premiere and see it, it doesn't change the fact that Season Pass =/ OnePass.

OnePass - Designed to present all seasons (configurable) from all sources (configurable)

Season Pass - Designed to capture specific episodes from specific channels for a show.

Very easy to see why someone would use multiple Season Passes for a show, much harder under the OnePass design.

The only relevant reason is conflict resolution, not missing a first run show in favor of a re-run for a higher priority 1P.

I have been trying to setup a test scenerio on this, but it is pretty hard to setup.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## RoyK

slowbiscuit said:


> Might be true for 1Ps the way they have them code now, but I'm not seeing the difficulty in adding a specific channel option to ARWLs (which would solve this case for almost every use). As mentioned before you can already create all the dupe ARWLs you want.


Actually you could almost exactly duplicate the function of a second SP except the recorded programs would present in separate folders from the OP recorded shows. I could live with that but it sure isn't pretty.


----------



## bradleys

nooneuknow said:


> What is the issue you are having? What's hard to set up to test? I zip through the old way in the dark, half-asleep...


Setting up a test where 5 of my six tuners are being used and a higher priority 1P re-run does not allow a lower priority First showing to record.

First I have to setup the scenerio where a OnePass with a rerun has a higher priority than a OnePass with new episode.

Then I need to allocate all of the remaining tuners.

If it is easy, go ahead and run the test.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## dcline414

nooneuknow said:


> Some of the MSOs are getting dangerously close to meeting the core needs of the average TiVo user. The more TiVo tries to be The One Box, the less attention to detail they can give to the core of what being a TiVo used to mean.


If I had cable, I would prefer the provider's box to any Tivo. In my experience the latest equipment from DirecTV, Comcast, and Charter is every bit as good as Tivo. The OnePass update integrating streaming and DVR content is actually the only feature I know of unique to TiVo.

The ONLY reason I don't have a cable box (or cable) is the fees:


> BASIC SERVICE: $26.99
> EXPANDED SERVICE: $38.00
> BROADCAST TV SURCHARGE (applies to Basic Service and all additional TV service packages): $5.00
> 
> Standard Digital or HD or DVR or DVR/HD Receiver, Remote & Interactive Guide Services (per outlet): $6.99
> CableCARDTM: $2.00
> DVR Service Fee for 1 DVR receiver: $11.99
> DVR Service Fee Package includes up to 4 DVR receivers (additional $19.99 for 5-8 DVR receivers): $19.99
> Digital Interface Device: $6.99


Vs. OTA:


> Advanced 4-Tuner HD DVR (Roamio OTA) with guide data: $15
> Additional HD receiver (Mini): $0.00


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## davidg716

dcline414 said:


> If I had cable, I would prefer the provider's box to any Tivo. In my experience the latest equipment from DirecTV, Comcast, and Charter is every bit as good as Tivo. The OnePass update integrating streaming and DVR content is actually the only feature I know of unique to TiVo.
> 
> The ONLY reason I don't have a cable box (or cable) is the fees:
> 
> Vs. OTA:


I use Tivo for 3 reasons,

*1*. Saves me $5 a month over what I would be paying for a single cable company DVR
On top of that...
*2.* FREE whole house. (this would be an additional $10 for the WH box +$8 a month for every TV I wanted it on) Tivo is a one time $130 charge for a mini.
*3.* The software is so superious to Time warner / brighthouse. Their drvices are extremely slow and the interfaces clunky. Not to mention the TiVo smart phone app is 100x better than Bright house's.


----------



## bradleys

dcline414 said:


> The OnePass update integrating streaming and DVR content is actually the only feature I know of unique to TiVo.


It is unique and I aplaud tivo just for that fact. I need to use it a little longer before I will start developing specific opinions about what tivo did well and where it needs some work.

Sorting in the top level "My Shows" is one item that I am still on the fence with.


----------



## bradleys

nooneuknow said:


> Interesting, you are running a 6-tuner box...
> 
> Those with 6 tuners never seem to be able to be objective, when it comes to those who had to keep OTA ability, and only have 4 tuners to work with...
> 
> The only reason I'm lucky enough to have a 3rd box is my choices were 2x6-tuner (cable only) or 3x4-tuner (OTA or cable). I didn't want to be TiVo-less, should I find myself without cable...


I still have a Premiere in my mix. I have no desire to ever go ota, and if something changed dramatically in my life, I could simply sell the Pro and purchase a base.

No reason to base decisions like that on very unlikely scenerios.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

L David Matheny said:


> So you really think the current sophisticated scheduling logic (using multiple prioritized season passes) just happened by accident? Seriously? You can believe whatever you want (which is what most people usually do), but that kind of complex program code doesn't write itself. Programmers who knew exactly what they were doing have polished it into the smooth-working scheduler that is now being discarded. And if TiVo's current programming staff is capable of dealing with such complexity, why dumb it down?


Look, I don't know why this is such a big deal. I was simply making the distinction between "breaking" something from a "programmers" perspective because some people were calling the programmers idiots. As I said in another reply, I could be wrong, but I seem to recall seeing unintended duplicate SPs in my list. I can't go back and check, but if I did have dupes, that tells me the program logic was not very sophisticated and didn't check to see if there was already an SP. If I'm wrong, fine. If they did check for SPs though and asked if you wanted to create another one, then it was a supported feature and they "broke" it. If the Tivo simply offered the option to "Create a Season Pass" and that's what it did, then it just happened to work for those who wanted multiple SPs for different options. I will grant that they apparently did think about allowing multiple 1Ps and nixed the idea. If that's true, then I think they made the wrong decision.

I don't agree with those who want to continue using multiple devices to accomplish something that can be done with a single device. Users want access to Netflix, Amazon and other services. I don't want to have to flip back and forth between the Tivo, it's apps, a Roku or even another input on my "smart" TV to see if what I'm searching for is available for one of them. I want my Tivo DVR to be the single catalog for all content. It's unfortunate they messed up the multiple 1Ps to get there and I hope they provide an alternative option.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

nooneuknow said:


> How on earth did I miss that???!!!??? All this bickering about it being some accidental, unintended, function, and you just came up with the answer to that debate! :up:
> 
> There is, indeed, a specific menu item (before OnePass), to *Get another Season Pass* (for the same program)!


If that's the case, then I stand corrected. I was just trying to distinguish between breaking a feature vs messing up how some were using a feature for unintended purposes. I should have picked a better example, like my editing metadata to get movies uploaded to groups. I can't believe someone didn't point this out earlier.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

I own a Chromecast, but only really use it for travel... If tivo actually delivers a client app for one of these streaming devices - I will pick one up in a heartbeat!

The big thing I am waiting for is the new implementation of HBOgo, and I hope tivo is able to get that included as a streaming provider!


----------



## HarperVision

bradleys said:


> I own a Chromecast, but only really use it for travel... If tivo actually delivers a client app for one of these streaming devices - I will pick one up in a heartbeat! The big thing I am waiting for is the new implementation of HBOgo, and I hope tivo is able to get that included as a streaming provider!


You can sideload the TiVo app on a FireTV unit already.


----------



## bradleys

nooneuknow said:


> TiVo needs to provide some sort of workaround, like the ability to be channel-specific on a WishList entry (and maybe add some more of the old SP functions into the WLs).
> 
> Member slowbuscuit seems to be the first to come up with this idea, and it's not pretty, as I hear 1P groups WLs separately. But, it sounds like "good enough for me, for now, maybe for good, if they push it through quickly".
> 
> Perhaps all the expenditure of this thread should be repurposed into officially asking/begging TiVo to make it be so?


I am sure tivo is reading the feedback and a leadership team has been sitting around a table trying to decifer valuable feedback from passionate noise.

Changing OnePass specifically isn't likely - it is just not aligned with the base ideology of OnePass. Coming up with enhancements to either wish lists or even suggestions, might be possible. Ensuring that reruns don't get a higher priority than first runs is another option.

I have been around that same kind of table, and it isn't an easy conversation. A lot of disappointment from a team perspective based on the reaction from something you are really proud of. Making a decision to react or wait for the current functionality to absorb into the user base.

Not a fun time at tivo this week, I am sure.


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> .....
> 
> I don't agree with those who want to continue using multiple devices to accomplish something that can be done with a single device. Users want access to Netflix, Amazon and other services. I don't want to have to flip back and forth between the Tivo, it's apps, a Roku or even another input on my "smart" TV to see if what I'm searching for is available for one of them. I want my Tivo DVR to be the single catalog for all content. It's unfortunate they messed up the multiple 1Ps to get there and I hope they provide an alternative option.


Oh? Well I currently have family visiting and a granddaughter expressed interest in seeing the very first episode of Dr. Who.
It took approximately 15 seconds to find it on Netflix (and AMazon Prime) and start it playing for her ON THE PRE OnePass Roamio. No flipping back and forth involved. No Passes (one or otherwise) required either.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

nooneuknow said:


> I guess I really am getting old, if DVRs are the new VHS...


That may be the problem. With On Demand, streaming, etc., there is not near as much need for a DVR beyond time-shifting new content. The youth of today probably don't even now what a TV is anymore, they watch on tablets and phones.  I'm relatively new to Tivo and I remember being angry with them because they were satellite and OTA only back in the beginning. Then, when DirecTV started making their own, they "lowered" themselves to compete for cable subscribers. Now that Roku, AppleTV, smart TVs, etc., are out there, they see the retail market declining even further, so they begin catering to the MSOs. MSOs know that people are no longer content with just what's on now or On Demand, they want streaming. MSOs also know that internet delivery is probably the future for all content and in order for MSOs to survive, they need to offer a single solution for TV, internet, phone, security and whatever else comes along. It's only natural for Tivo to want a piece of that, especially since their patents are expiring and the competition is only going to increase.


----------



## bradleys

HarperVision said:


> You can sideload the TiVo app on a FireTV unit already.


I know, and I have considered playing with that - just haven't gotten around to it. I am hoping tivo delivers a supported product.

I am really looking forward to seeing reaction to the new android app! The one you guys have is basically a reported IOS app by design. The new one uses android design queues and is distinctly different that the IOS app.

(Hopefully, this was in preparation for a fire TV app)


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Oh? Well I currently have family visiting and a granddaughter expressed interest in seeing the very first episode of Dr. Who.
> It took approximately 15 seconds to find it on Netflix (and AMazon Prime) and start it playing for her ON THE PRE OnePass Roamio. No flipping back and forth involved. No Passes (one or otherwise) required either.


Especially with Netflix, they almost completely eliminate branding differences - that is very cool. Select a streaming show and it goes directly too it... No stopping at profiles, no episode splash page, tivo My Shows to streaming content!

Now that is cool!!!

Saying what tivo has provided doesn't bring value, I think is a little disingenuous.

The move to several distinct and unrelated streaming services has done more to complicate the viewing experience than anything in recent memory. Tivo at least attempting to bring continuity across platforms has to be appreciated.


----------



## HarperVision

nooneuknow said:


> I would guess this is your way of saying "...or we could abruptly change the subject to something so far away from 1P, maybe balance will be restored."?........


Last I checked this was the Release notes thread, not the OnePass thread 



nooneuknow said:


> I have 2 chromecasts, which only get used during the brief times that my Chinese android tablet isn't bricked (reflash, root, play, brick, repeat), not really my thing.......


Maybe try not using cheap Chinese rip offs?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> Oh? Well I currently have family visiting and a granddaughter expressed interest in seeing the very first episode of Dr. Who.
> It took approximately 15 seconds to find it on Netflix (and AMazon Prime) and start it playing for her ON THE PRE OnePass Roamio. No flipping back and forth involved. No Passes (one or otherwise) required either.


I didn't say it was hard or took a long time, just that I didn't want to have to switch between devices. Some have suggested that Tivo should ONLY record, nothing else. That is backward thinking and there is no way a record-only DVR survives today.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## randrake

My mini didn't get the update but my Roamio did. Will the OnePass on the mini work the same way about the streaming from places like Amazon Prime when it gets the update?


----------



## bradleys

randrake said:


> My mini didn't get the update but my Roamio did. Will the OnePass on the mini work the same way about the streaming from places like Amazon Prime when it gets the update?


Yes


----------



## HarperVision

nooneuknow said:


> 95% of the Release notes were about 1P, or related to it......


And 95% of this thread is also about OnePass, so balance is kept! 



nooneuknow said:


> I wasn't saying the tablet was at fault. I brick it because I keep learning the limits of what can be messed with, and what should be left alone, the only way I know: Trial and error. As it turns out Allwinner tablets are impossible to permanently brick. Unless you physically damage them, or OC/OV them to self-destruct by overheating. $30 tablet that I can flash back in less than 5 minutes, beats $300 high-end tablet that can become a brick, and end of story. Just be sure to read up on the hidden spyware that comes factory installed on every one of them (all originating from China, with Allwinner CPUs), no matter who made it, or who sold it. Take that out before it can activate, save that image, and you are golden. The detection and removal tool only came out a short while back, courtesy of http://www.techknow.me/forum/index.php?topic=8572.30


Wow that's cool. (until China actually uses and exploits all these things they've secretly planted in the devices they've sold us naive Americans and we're all speaking Chinese that is!  )


----------



## cherry ghost

bradleys said:


> The only relevant reason is conflict resolution, not missing a first run show in favor of a re-run for a higher priority 1P.
> 
> I have been trying to setup a test scenerio on this, but it is pretty hard to setup.


It'll be easy once this gets pushed to two-tuner Premieres.

While I like the idea of 1P, it's going to be a small problem for me with certain sports recordings.


----------



## FitzAusTex

So, a few more days in with OnePass, and I have to say that I definitely like the integration of Netflix and Amazon into My Shows. I haven't found any of the sorting order issues that some are reporting, but I've mainly just been watching the shows. If/when those present themselves, I'll probably be miffed. 

Now on to the elimination of multiple Season Passes. I hate it. I'm disgusted. I hate it. That being said, I've always wanted the ability to select the channel for Wish Lists, so allowing us to select the channel number would be an excellent alternate solution. Only downside is the separate WL folders, but those annoyed me prior to OnePass. From my perspective, the separate WL folders should be done away with. Does anyone like those?


----------



## aaronwt

dcline414 said:


> If I had cable, I would prefer the provider's box to any Tivo. In my experience the latest equipment from DirecTV, Comcast, and Charter is every bit as good as Tivo. The OnePass update integrating streaming and DVR content is actually the only feature I know of unique to TiVo.
> 
> The ONLY reason I don't have a cable box (or cable) is the fees:
> 
> Vs. OTA:


I was looking at the X1 box again while I was visiting my parents today. It doesn't even have a buffer with the remote clients. While it was a big improvement from what Comcast used to have in this area, it is still nowhere near as good or reliable as TiVo has been.

Going from the old Comcast Boxes in this area I would think the X1 was great. But if I had to go from using a TiVo Roamio to using an X1 it would be a big downgrade and a huge disappointment.


----------



## innocentfreak

Tried to turn on OnePass for my Parks and Recreation season pass. I turned on Recording and Streaming from season 6. I then cycled the options since it was still only showing my recordings. Then it left me with all streaming and recording options starting from season 1. I tried clearing the seasons out but you have to go by episode. Upon clearing the first 6 episodes I was greeted with the C501 error which now pops up every time I go to My Shows. On top of that my TiVo won't display live TV and only shows a black screen with no UI so changing stations does nothing. I hit the TiVo button to get back to the menus but only hear the sound and nothing changes. I let it sit for a few minutes at which point it rebooted on its own.

I am waiting for the reboot now to see if I can access My Shows again.


----------



## bradleys

innocentfreak said:


> Tried to turn on OnePass for my Parks and Recreation season pass. I turned on Recording and Streaming from season 6. I then cycled the options since it was still only showing my recordings. Then it left me with all streaming and recording options starting from season 1. I tried clearing the seasons out but you have to go by episode. Upon clearing the first 6 episodes I was greeted with the C501 error which now pops up every time I go to My Shows. On top of that my TiVo won't display live TV and only shows a black screen with no UI so changing stations does nothing. I hit the TiVo button to get back to the menus but only hear the sound and nothing changes. I let it sit for a few minutes at which point it rebooted on its own.
> 
> I am waiting for the reboot now to see if I can access My Shows again.


We're you just seeing the different filtering options?

My episodes will give you episodes starting with the season you selected
All episodes will give you episodes stating from season 1


----------



## innocentfreak

bradleys said:


> We're you just seeing the different filtering options?
> 
> My episodes will give you episodes starting with the season you selected
> All episodes will give you episodes stating from season 1


I was seeing the options but also looking to show only streaming and recording from season 6. My Episodes still only showed recorded shows and no streaming. All episodes showed me both.

The reboot seems to have fixed the c501 error.

I think the non streaming options might be because P&R isn't on Prime and only on Amazon Instant so I probably had don't include rent or buy. All episodes obviously bypassed this.


----------



## bradleys

innocentfreak said:


> I was seeing the options but also looking to show only streaming and recording from season 6. My Episodes still only showed recorded shows and no streaming. All episodes showed me both.
> 
> The reboot seems to have fixed the c501 error.
> 
> I think the non streaming options might be because P&R isn't on Prime and only on Amazon Instant so I probably had don't include rent or buy. All episodes obviously bypassed this.


Yes, it appears that it does


----------



## HerronScott

DoubleDAZ said:


> I'm relatively new to Tivo and I remember being angry with them because they were satellite and OTA only back in the beginning. Then, when DirecTV started making their own, they "lowered" themselves to compete for cable subscribers..


TiVo has supported cable providers since the beginning. We bought our first one in June 2000 (Sony S1 with lifetime) and used it with Adelphia. Or am I misunderstanding what you are referring to?

Scott


----------



## DoubleDAZ

HerronScott said:


> TiVo has supported cable providers since the beginning. We bought our first one in June 2000 (Sony S1 with lifetime) and used it with Adelphia. Or am I misunderstanding what you are referring to?


No, you understood, but now I'm confused. I thought the only Tivo back then was the one for DirecTV. It sounds like there was a version for cable too that I never knew about because everyone I knew at the time with a Tivo had DirecTV. That was one of the main reasons I never looked further because I didn't want DirecTV, though I didn't really want to pay for a Tivo either back then. So, the only time I considered getting a Tivo was when they introduced the version with a Cablecard and I finally succumbed when I saw the 6-tuner Pro. Thanks for the education.


----------



## astrohip

nooneuknow said:


> TiVo is lowering the bar, not raising it, if you are what I guess is called a "power user" of TiVo.


Speak for yourself. I would be considered a power user, with four active TiVos, plus a Mini. My primary TiVo, a Roamio Pro, has well over 100 SPs, and another 75 very tricky and intricate wishlists. They continue to improve the product, your diatribe notwithstanding.

Look, we get that this update killed a really cool feature that some of you used. I've lost features that I loved too. Remember when you could read captions at FF1X? I used that every day, and when it was lost, I brought it up a few times, until Margret said the new code base killed it, and it wasn't coming back. So I moved on. Life has a way of making you do that.

So you know what, y'all have brought it up, more than several times. Can we either discuss solutions, or move on? You're killing several threads with your non-stop whining.



nooneuknow said:


> TiVo needs to provide some sort of workaround...


TiVo doesn't need to do anything. You would like them to do it, and you should organize your request, in some meaningful way. But I promise you, inundating a thread like this works against you, not for you.


----------



## RoyK

astrohip said:


> ....
> 
> So you know what, y'all have brought it up, more than several times. Can we either discuss solutions, or move on? You're killing several threads with your non-stop whining.


There is an ignore option. Childish comments about whining are really unnecessary.


----------



## CinciDVR

bradleys said:


> @nooneuknow - I wanted to mention for some time, your posts are too long, it takes a dedicated person to actually make it through them, even if you are on target... There is a reason for the term TL : DR


I, for one, appreciate comments from @nooneuknow. Quite a bit of what I know beyond basic Tivo knowledge has come from his posts.



bradleys said:


> I think that answers you response - frankly I didn't read the whole thing.


And this is why you keep posting the same thing over and over again about 1P being designed to "blah, blah, blah" without actually providing any useful commentary or solutions to his issues.


----------



## NorthAlabama

astrohip said:


> So you know what, y'all have brought it up, more than several times. Can we either discuss solutions, or move on? You're killing several threads with your non-stop whining.


300 posts in 2 days is almost overwhelming, but i'm not so sure i agree with classifying it as whining - it's valuable feedback for tivo, and the discussion is helping those affected work through the change to find alternatives and possible solutions.

i've avoided any comment (won't receive the update until this week), and updating my multiple season passes to "all channels" has worked out well for my uses, but that doesn't mean i don't sympathize with the comments in this thread - i could be next.

i miss the 1xffwd captions, too.


----------



## bradleys

CinciDVR said:


> And this is why you keep posting the same thing over and over again about 1P being designed to "blah, blah, blah" without actually providing any useful commentary or solutions to his issues.


I did provide a solution - three tumbs up and turn on recommendations. Other then that I don't think we need any other solutions. If tivo wants to expand wislists to include channels that would work as well.

Most of the problem here is a lot of people are not taking the time to consider what OnePass is designed to do and how, for the most part, it removes the need for multiple SP's (all channels, all providers, all seasons all configurable)

But change is hard...

And frankly if I wasn't arguing a different point of view this entire thread would be one big pity party with no differing point of view.


----------



## realityboy

bradleys said:


> I did provide a solution - three tumbs up and turn on recommendations. Other then that I don't think we need any other solutions. If tivo wants to expand wislists to include channels that would work as well.
> 
> Most of the problem here is a lot of people are not taking the time to consider what OnePass is designed to do and how, for the most part, it removes the need for multiple SP's
> 
> But change is hard...


I appreciate the attempt at a solution. TivoMargret proposed the same solution. Do you do any management of your thumb ratings to only get shows that you want to watch? My suggestions have always been varied.

Currently in my suggestions recorded, I have a few movies that I wouldn't mind watching, but the series are hit & miss:

Meet the Press
Mad Men
My Little Pony??
Suits (never seen the show)
Cleveland Show
I Love Lucy

Also, the last line of your post is antagonistic for no reason.

Edit: it would be great if a future update could add Netflix suggestions to this folder.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

Until the moderators tell someone to cease and desist, they have every right to post as often as they like. I too have learned a few things I didn't know from the discussion and most dupe comments are to further clarify or respond to someone who didn't understand something, including me.

The one thing I've gotten out of most of the discussion though is that the change has affected only a very few number of users here and that generally means far fewer overall when all users are considered. Of course, that is only among early adopters and could grow when the release hits everyone. However, I'm still not holding out much hope for a return of multiple passes, though I don't know about adding a channel option to Wish Lists.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## astrohip

RoyK said:


> There is an ignore option. Childish comments about whining are really unnecessary.
> 
> 
> CinciDVR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I, for one, appreciate comments from @nooneuknow. Quite a bit of what I know beyond basic Tivo knowledge has come from his posts.
Click to expand...

I prefer to not ignore him (or many others) for the reason CinciDVR said, I do find use in most posts, from NOUK and others.

BUT...


NorthAlabama said:


> 300 posts in 2 days is almost overwhelming <snip>


Nothing almost about it.



DoubleDAZ said:


> Until the moderators tell someone to cease and desist, they have every right to post as often as they like.


That's being pedantic. Sure he and others can post the same thing over & over & over, but what it does is drive those of us who actually enjoy (and learn) from these threads away.

I would hazard a guess half the usual crowd has left this thread simply due to the non-stop bombardment.


----------



## realityboy

astrohip said:


> I prefer to not ignore him (or many others) for the reason CinciDVR said, I do find use in most posts, from NOUK and others.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> Nothing almost about it.
> 
> That's being pedantic. Sure he and others can post the same thing over & over & over, but what it does is drive those of us who actually enjoy (and learn) from these threads away.
> 
> I would hazard a guess half the usual crowd has left this thread simply due to the non-stop bombardment.


I fully admit that some of us may have lastworditis, but each comment has been a response to the one before it. Back and forth only works with two sides so you can't solely blame one side.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

astrohip said:


> That's being pedantic. Sure he and others can post the same thing over & over & over, but what it does is drive those of us who actually enjoy (and learn) from these threads away.


I did repeat a similar post two or three times, but only to be clear about the differences between onepass and season pass - and I still think it is an important point as it makes the reason multiple Season Passes no longer exist obvious.

I often find that people don't like an answer, get upset when you present it logically.

So, as people continue to rant about how mean, short sighted, and money grubbing tivo is for taking away their multiple season passes, I will continue to try to educate and present a balanced picture.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

astrohip said:


> That's being pedantic. Sure he and others can post the same thing over & over & over, but what it does is drive those of us who actually enjoy (and learn) from these threads away.
> 
> I would hazard a guess half the usual crowd has left this thread simply due to the non-stop bombardment.


I'm sorry, but it's easy enough to simply skip over any post or discussion you're not interested in. If that's all it takes for you and others to avoid the thread, then I suggest you aren't that interested in the first place.

Look, I have no dog in this hunt. I couldn't care less about being able to record reruns at a lower priority, but I see you and others beating up one member when another member continues to ridicule(?) him or dismiss his problem while making comments that seem to indicate he doesn't fully understand. That only invites the added discussion and is actually more irritating to me.

And now you might respond to this comment, so then I'll have to respond back and here we go again. As far as I'm concerned, my initial comment required no response. What I said was true, pedantic or not.


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> It existed, I can look at my Premiere and see it, it doesn't change the fact that Season Pass =/ OnePass.
> 
> OnePass - Designed to present all seasons (configurable) from all sources (configurable)
> 
> Season Pass - Designed to capture specific episodes from specific channels for a show.
> 
> Very easy to see why someone would use multiple Season Passes for a show, much harder under the OnePass design.
> 
> The only relevant reason is conflict resolution, not missing a first run show in favor of a re-run for a higher priority 1P.
> 
> I have been trying to setup a test scenerio on this, but it is pretty hard to setup.





nooneuknow said:


> What is the issue you are having? What's hard to set up to test? I zip through the old way in the dark, half-asleep...


Did you both miss the post wherein I stated that I tested it and it works the same as it always has - conflict resolution is purely on the basis of 1P priority. If you have a 1P setup for "New & Reruns", a rerun of an episode of that series will have a higher priority than a new episode of a series with a lower priority 1P.


----------



## RoyK

U


bradleys said:


> I did repeat a similar post two or three times, but only to be clear about the differences between onepass and season pass - and I still think it is an important point as it makes the reason multiple Season Passes no longer exist obvious.
> 
> I often find that people don't like an answer, get upset when you present it logically.
> 
> So, as people continue to rant about how mean, short sighted, and money grubbing tivo is for taking away their multiple season passes, I will continue to try to educate and present a balanced picture.


What is obvious is that you have your opinion and you're sticking to it. Others feel that you just don't grasp the problem. That's OK. Educate us? Give me a break.


----------



## bradleys

lpwcomp said:


> Did you both miss the post wherein I stated that I tested it and it works the same as it always has - conflict resolution is purely on the basis of 1P priority. If you have a 1P setup for "New & Reruns", a rerun of an episode of that series will have a higher priority than a new episode of a series with a lower priority 1P.


So it records the Rerun and the New fails - yes, apparently we both missed your post.


----------



## realityboy

lpwcomp said:


> Did you both miss the post wherein I stated that I tested it and it works the same as it always has - conflict resolution is purely on the basis of 1P priority. If you have a 1P setup for "New & Reruns", a rerun of an episode of that series will have a higher priority than a new episode of a series with a lower priority 1P.


I saw it. Thanks again for the test.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DoubleDAZ

nooneuknow said:


> Good thing I read this part more than once.................I don't even like being caught off-guard, even if it is over something good...


Honestly, I have no idea how many new members might sign up because of the loss of multiple SPs. So far, that is the only real problem I see with the update, but then I'm not what you'd consider a power-user. I record and watch what I record. I have too much to watch as it is to record reruns of The Simpsons.  I still think using a Wish List at a high priority to record "New only" episodes will only get those on Fox and a 1P at a low priority to record the "New & reruns" on FX will only get the reruns on FX and accomplish the same thing as 2 SPs did. I'd really like to know why that won't work. Admittedly, it may not solve all the problems, but I'm not sure what others are using multiple SPs for.

I completely agree that the deletion of the multiple SPs should have been or should be a major point in the release notes. Until this thread, I didn't know you could set multiples, but now that I do, that seems like a major change that needs to be mentioned.

And don't worry about putting me on the spot or hazing me, I get where you're coming from and I support your right to hammer it home. However, I'm also realistic about the chances of it being changed, at least before the release goes out to everyone.


----------



## CinciDVR

bradleys said:


> I did repeat a similar post two or three times, but only to be clear about the differences between onepass and season pass - and I still think it is an important point as it makes the reason multiple Season Passes no longer exist obvious.


I haven't read a single thing in any of your posts that explains why Season Passes no longer exist. Onepass could exist side-by-side with Season Passes just as Season Passes have existed side-by-side with Wishlists.

The closest you have come to explaining why Season Passes no longer exist is to say that they are no longer needed. But many TCF members have presented valid reasons why they are needed. Things like being able to set different priorities and "keep" settings for new vs repeats. Or things like streaming options being transient as they are added & dropped from streaming catalogs. Or things like not wanting to pay for streaming options.

On the other hand, you have been very clear about the benefits you see in the Onepass implementation. I agree with you on most of those. If you'd simply stop there, and not try to tell people they don't need the functionality that is taken away, I'd find your posts very useful and a lot less frustrating to read.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DoubleDAZ

nooneuknow said:


> Don't forget that any padding set for beginning/end will apply to any/all channels for the OnePass entry. That's sure to creep up on even the most vocal proponents, at some point.


I'll vouch for that. Recording reruns and padding them can really muck things up. I added a 1P for The Simpsons and moving it up in the priority list caused several conflicts with my 6 tuners.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## morac

So I'm trying to extend "The Blacklist" recording and a number of times I got a spinning blue circles, including one time it timed out. Doesn't look like blue circles are fixed completely.


----------



## Keen

RoyK said:


> There is an ignore option. Childish comments about whining are really unnecessary.


It really doesn't help. The non-stop posts make this thread _real_ tedious to read. There's virtually no new information, but there's no way to know that except to go through each. and. every. page. Ugh.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> U
> 
> What is obvious is that you have your opinion and you're sticking to it. Others feel that you just don't grasp the problem. That's OK. Educate us? Give me a break.


I really do feel that if you thought about it for more then a reactionary moment you would see the value in what the one pass brings - yes.

I also think you are WAY over exaggerating the problem - absolutely, yes

I also think, it is a fear of change that is driving most of the hysteria - yes

At this point it isn't going to change back, so you better take the time to either work with it or look for other options.

I will let you guys just continue with your pissing and moaning while I play with Onepass and try to enjoy the benefits in peace!


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## morac

nooneuknow said:


> Too bad there are only something like 30 threads about the blue circles. Maybe they should start reporting in here, if they have been updated, and are still seeing them?
> 
> I never know what "belongs" in the official release notes threads. Some frown on bug reports, and only want to discuss the update. Some only want to talk bugs, and try to chase away discussing the update. It's always an "adventure".


My post about the spinning blue circle was posted here because Margret's release notes mention blue circles were fixed., so I'm responding to the first post.

Actually I've been seeing more blue circles since the update, not less.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## L David Matheny

bradleys said:


> I really do feel that if you thought about it for more then a reactionary moment you would see the value in what the one pass brings - yes.
> 
> I also think you are WAY over exaggerating the problem - absolutely, yes
> 
> I also think, it is a fear of change that is driving most of the hysteria - yes


We do see value in OnePass. But if you think about it for more then a defensive moment, you should see the value of what the OnePass takes away. I don't believe we are exaggerating. And it isn't fear of change that is driving this but rather the certain knowledge that valuable features we use every day are being eliminated from the scheduling logic.


----------



## CoxInPHX

morac said:


> So I'm trying to extend "The Blacklist" recording and a number of times I got a spinning blue circles, including one time it timed out. Doesn't look like blue circles are fixed completely.





morac said:


> My post about the spinning blue circle was posted here because Margret's release notes mention blue circles were fixed., so I'm responding to the first post.
> 
> Actually I've been seeing more blue circles since the update, not less.


I do not have the update, but the same thing happened to me w/ the Blacklist tonight.


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> We do see value in OnePass. But if you think about it for more then a defensive moment, you should see the value of what the OnePass takes away. I don't believe we are exaggerating. And it isn't fear of change that is driving this but rather the certain knowledge that valuable features we use every day are being eliminated from the scheduling logic.


I predict that after a few months, the new features will be in place accross the board. The complaining will have subsided and TiVo's will continue to schedule and manage recordings.

Do I see the value of what you are doing? Sure, but OnePass eliminated most of that value with the all channels option and streaming content access.

Lower priority, random repeats? Sure - I use suggestions for most of that, but I find it an exaggerated complaint.

Tivo "may" decide to develop another option, but the will never give you back multiple season passes - so at this point the conversation is mute.

Unfortunately, the complaints are so loud, I am not sure if the casual user will understand just how fringe the complaints are.

Enjoy stirring the pot...


----------



## realityboy

bradleys said:


> Enjoy stirring the pot...


You make reasonable posts, but even then you can't resist adding snipes that you know people will respond to. The majority of the people in this thread agree with your posts about the benefits of OnePass. They also agree Tivo isn't going to change it. Also most have discussed various workarounds. I even started a thread about it. Yet, you continue to maintain that anyone not 100% happy is just afraid of change. If you kept your posts to only mentioning positive things about OnePass (or even negative), I don't think there would be half as many posts in this thread.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## gamo62

Trying to acquaint myself with OnePass. On the Mini, I don't have a streaming option when setting up a OnePass. The only choice I have is channel and then the choices are one channel or all. Suggestions?


----------



## CoxInPHX

I thought of a very good use for OnePass, I certainly hope it works this way.

If you had a conflict or missed a recording due to No Signal, does it automatically put the link to the HuluPlus episode in the My Shows list, if available? They are usually available within 24 hours, would it show up that soon?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## dslunceford

Is there anyway to search for content by type (such as movies) and source ("free streaming" vs rent or buy)?

I know I can search for specific movies/shows, but would like to browse Amazon Prime options natively within TiVo vs popping out to the app (or even better, combine Prime and Netflix browsing in one place).


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> Good thing I read this part more than once. It initially sounded like you were declaring that only very few users here are affected by, or have concerns about the change.
> 
> I wasn't even aware of it coming until this thread, and I was late to find it and join it.
> 
> I still have not yet been updated (thankfully).
> 
> Don't you think that TCF just might see a huge jump in new members when this change hits, and nobody (except us, here in the thread now) see it coming?
> 
> Don't you think there might be some members who have yet to even take notice of this thread, or might only log in when they have a problem, or just don't try to keep up?
> 
> Even if OnePass winds up being accepted and popular, the change alone is going to throw people, especially those who don't see it coming, and by the time it is on their boxes, it has taken away the ability to do something like use KMTTG to move the old-style SPs around, pre-conversion, in order to lessen the blow. Speaking of that, anybody not yet updated might want to consider backing up their SPs with KMTTG, as they sit right now.
> 
> I'm not trying to put you on the spot, or haze you with this post. I'm just pointing out that not everybody knows the change is even coming, nor does everybody follow TCF, and it would have been nice for TiVo to have sent everybody an email, or something, letting them know this was coming. Perhaps TiVo should have had the introduction, instructions, and FAQ ready to go, say a month in advance... I don't even like being caught off-guard, even if it is over something good...


Wait? What? This borks KMTTG with Season One Passes

So does this mean KMTTG can't back up the Season One Passes anymore?

It's not something I do very often, the last time I backed them up was in September.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> I can't say, with certainty, what it does/doesn't with KMTTG.
> 
> Obviously, if you let OnePass rework all your SPs into 1Ps, before using KMTTG to back them up as-is, and move them around to different TiVos, in the old format, you'd lose that ability, TTBOMK. At best, you might still be able to move 1Ps around, post conversion, which doesn't help me one bit, with what is eating me about the change.


I just tried backing them up and it seemed to work fine. But I also didn't have a bunch of multiple channel SPs. The one I do know was consolidated with One Pass just showed up as an SP for all channels in the KMTTG backup. And the One I created after One Pass was implemented also seemed to show up properly as All channels.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## aaronwt

I just initiated a transfer of the Superbowl from my Roamio Pro to my KMTTG machine. I think one advantage of the lower power state might be faster transfers. I am getting a transfer rate between 200Mb/s and 205Mb/s right now as reported by KMTTG. I don't recall ever seeing transfers that fast. So I guess since it isn't recording the buffers from the tuners not in use it is able to have a faster transfer rate than previously? Right now seems to be one of the few times that I have no recordings taking place. Or maybe not. I guess the front lights are off in the power saving mode?

EDIT: I just checked with my Mini and there are no recordings scheduled for another twenty minutes. So with no tuners in use I'm getting 200Mb/s to 205Mb/s transfer rates to my KMTTG PC. This is a nice 15% increase in transfer speeds.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> That sounds logical, based on the old standby mode still giving a boost, too. I could boost it more, by pulling the coax feed, even with the mighty Roamio.
> 
> What is the current network infrastructure you are moving the data through? I can't keep track of your network, and what you are using for your TiVos, at any given time.


My Roamio Pro is using the GigE port. And my Minis are using MoCA with an Actiontec GigE MoCA adapter supplying them access to the GigE network.
I had been seeing consistent speeds between 200Mb/s and 205Mb/s but I noticed speeds as high as 209 Mb/s a few times.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

nooneuknow said:


> Perhaps I missed it, or did you wait until now to post this condition manifested, in real life TiVo use?
> 
> Posts just like this are what Margret needs to see - actual reports of conflicts that did not exist the old way, now existing the new way.


That's not new, it happened with SPs too. Since I never noticed I could have another SP for the same program, I simply recorded a later repeat for the cable programs that conflicted. Had I noticed I could have created a 2nd season pass for the reruns, I probably would have done it that way. However, moving to 6 tuners essentially solved my problem until I did the test yesterday. I didn't really test that per se, I simply added The Simpsons 1P and noticed the conflicts pop up.



> I've been too much ahead of things, like "What if somebody is away on vacation, and comes home weeks after a change they had no idea was coming?" type scenarios. I was away for 2 weeks once, didn't think to preemptively check for any marathons in the TDL, and lost a lot of stuff when a marathon of something blew through. I needed repeats before I could watch the next season, which had already started, and the prior one was not available to stream. What a mess that made...
> 
> But, those with the TiVo app on their smartphones can check their TiVo, if away. Would be nice if they had advance notice that it might actually be important that they check in with their TiVo, from wherever they are...


Your vacation scenario is also "real". We travel 3 times a year for 1-3 month periods each time. After a 2-month trip last Aug, I came home to over 200 recordings the end of Sep. However, I had used the app on my phone/tablet and tivo.com on my laptop to manage things while I was away so I didn't miss recording anything during that time. Even with 6 tuners, conflicts did come up as the fall season started part way through our vacation. I guess my thought is that no matter how they program things, some manual intervention will be needed under many real-world scenarios.

FWIW, I just looked at My Shows for The Simpsons. I started recording a 1P yesterday and now have 10 recordings. When I sort "recordings" by season, I see some for S2, S11, S12 and so on. When I view "my episodes, I see the same list and when I view "all episodes", the streaming episodes are added in and the ones I've recorded are easy to pick out (though with 26 seasons, the list is quite long ). It also shows the next 2 new episodes that are in the guide to be recorded on 2/8 and 2/15. If I watch all or part of one of the recordings, it displays the status indicator making it pretty easy to see where I am in the series. FXX does not appear to be showing them all in series/episode sequence though, I thought someone said they were.

Anyway, I changed the 1P to record "New and repeats" on FX only and made it the lowest priority. I added a Wish List for "The Simpsons" for "New only" and made it a high priority. I then added recordings for 2/8 until I had a conflict. It asked me if I wanted to cancel/clip the low priority 1P scheduled recording of a rerun, not the higher priority Wish List scheduled recording of the new episode. The Wish List recording is also limited to Fox since that is the only new episode and the 1P recordings are limited to the reruns on FXX.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

morac said:


> So I'm trying to extend "The Blacklist" recording and a number of times I got a spinning blue circles, including one time it timed out. Doesn't look like blue circles are fixed completely.


I get a lot of blue circles when I'm doing various things. I just assumed that was because I made too many changes that are taking a bit of time to update. I got them before the update too and I don't think much has changed, but it's not something I keep track of.


----------



## Arcady

gamo62 said:


> Trying to acquaint myself with OnePass. On the Mini, I don't have a streaming option when setting up a OnePass. The only choice I have is channel and then the choices are one channel or all. Suggestions?


Make sure both the host TiVo and the Mini are on 20.4.6. Reboot the Mini.

(If the Mini updated to 20.4.6 before the host TiVo, it will not show all of the OnePass options until a reboot, so it can see that the host has also updated.)


----------



## telemark

aaronwt said:


> So I guess since it isn't recording the buffers from the tuners not in use it is able to have a faster transfer rate than previously?


If it's not recording live buffers, it removes alot of the seeking that the Hard Drive would normally be doing. Seeking is detrimental to maximal Hard Drive throughput.

This is why the benchmarks do both sequential and random IO tests.

This is predicated on the CPU, or whatever does the data format translation not being the bottleneck before. aka, you might not see the same level of boost on Premiere which has a slower processor than Roamio.

Edit: if Standby mode also kills live buffers and seeking, there's something more complicated at work.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## aaronwt

nooneuknow said:


> @aaronwt: Impressive. I'm still deliberating on if I want my drives spinning down at all, though. Can you get those results, without the countdown to spin-down and parking of the heads commencing?
> 
> It's been my experience that drives running 24x7 for ~2 years, or longer, seem to have trouble if they are suddenly spinning down (many have never spun back up, in my experience).
> 
> I can't help but wonder about those with Premieres and stock drives, or any drives, with 2-3+ years of almost always spinning operation. The head stack actuator can get a sticky spot in the area it hasn't been seeing action, or if you have my luck, the spindle motor locks in place...


I thought the power saving features were just for the Roamio line? Is it also applied to the Premiere? I have not checked my Premiere yet to see if it got the update. I'll need to look at it tonight.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Arcady

TiVo_Margret already stated that the Premiere hardware is not able to use the new power saving modes.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## lessd

nooneuknow said:


> There is a (member created) thread on the power saving (with a version typo), that has been running parallel to this one: V20.4.5 power saving mode
> 
> ...just in case some are not aware of it.


I am that member and I can't see how to correct my heading to *20.4.6
* from 20.4.5 that was a typo. I tried.

*Now corrected by a nice member*


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## kbmb

lessd said:


> I am that member and I can't see how to correct my heading to *20.4.6
> * from 20.4.5 that was a typo. I tried.


Ask Dan203 to change it for you.

-Kevin


----------



## cherry ghost

nooneuknow said:


> I just checked post #1 and you are right, no mention of Premieres, only specifically stated for Roamios (even though Premiere users would sometimes get a glimpse of a hidden/secret new power saving menu, and one posted a screenshot of it). I suppose they were seeing a menu meant to be both inactive and hidden, on Premieres, only there due to the unified codebase.


Do you remember which post had the screenshot?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> Do I see the value of what you are doing? Sure, but OnePass eliminated most of that value with the all channels option and streaming content access.
> 
> Lower priority, random repeats? Sure - I use suggestions for most of that, but I find it an exaggerated complaint.
> 
> Tivo "may" decide to develop another option, but the will never give you back multiple season passes - so at this point the conversation is mute.
> 
> Unfortunately, the complaints are so loud, I am not sure if the casual user will understand just how fringe the complaints are.


I don't want to belabor the point. I like One Pass and have no problem with you or anyone else posting their opinions. However, once again you're making generalizations that seem to trivialize the complains and just result in further comments, like this one. 

Unless you run the development team at Tivo, you have absolutely no way of knowing what Tivo will do with multiple 1Ps. They could take another look at it and put the capability back in somehow. Obviously, it won't happen before the release goes out to everyone, but at the very least, they might add to the release notes mentioning that multiple SPs are being done away with so users aren't caught unaware as NOUK was.

I suggested a solution to NOUKs problem too, but the fact that my suggestion or others might work for some, doesn't mean the problem has gone away or shouldn't get given further consideration by us or Tivo. Who knows who might read this thread starting with today's posts and have a better solution? The too, if suggestions are that random, then that is a problem and potentially affects more users than the priority issue.


----------



## FitzAusTex

I noticed a "bug" yesterday where some streaming shows are missing episodes after adding to My Shows. For example, I added U.K. version of "Being Human", all seasons, but S1 E1 is missing ontmy My Shows folder. This episode IS available on both Amazon and Netflix. This is not the only show I've seen this for, but haven't confirmed the others. And I live alone, and don't share my tivo nor my Amazon or Netflix account.

Also, had the blue spinning circles before this firmware, and still am getting them.

And finally, multiple season passes... I realize that not everyone uses a tivo in the same way. I sure wish everyone realized that, too. Some like that the tivo records all sorts of stuff that they might want to watch, others like/need very tight control. I'm the second type. The fact that that my tivo used to let me be very specific about what channels I recorded a specific event on was critical. Yes, now I can be very specific on ONE channel, but that doesn't cut it. Without multiple SPs, I've lost a critical "weeding out" tool that I hope tivo considers restoring.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

dslunceford said:


> Is there anyway to search for content by type (such as movies) and source ("free streaming" vs rent or buy)?
> 
> I know I can search for specific movies/shows, but would like to browse Amazon Prime options natively within TiVo vs popping out to the app (or even better, combine Prime and Netflix browsing in one place).


Not that I can see.


----------



## ajwees41

Arcady said:


> TiVo_Margret already stated that the Premiere hardware is not able to use the new power saving modes.


where did she post here or twitter? you would think power saving hould work on premiere


----------



## DoubleDAZ

lessd said:


> I am that member and I can't see how to correct my heading to *20.4.6
> * from 20.4.5 that was a typo. I tried.


Edit the first post and go into Advanced mode, that will let you edit the title.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

DoubleDAZ said:


> Unless you run the development team at Tivo, you have absolutely no way of knowing what Tivo will do with multiple 1Ps. They could take another look at it and put the capability back in somehow. Obviously, it won't happen before the release goes out to everyone, but at the very least, they might add to the release notes mentioning that multiple SPs are being done away with so users aren't caught unaware as NOUK was..


Nope, not on the TiVo development team, however, I have been in IT development, architecture and Sr. Management for more than a few years - and based on that experience I would agree with TiVo that multiple OnePass's create too many overlaps, and would be difficult to design properly and very confusing at the consumer level.

As I said before, the TiVo leadership team will have a few difficult round table meetings in the next couple of days trying to determine next steps... Most likely they will decide to wait it out and see how it fairs once the full deployment is in place.

Understand that this is a pretty major change, so TiVo cannot simply throw together a quick patch to make you whole again. If they do decide to provide some relief, it will take a full design review, development cycle, beta testing and deployment before you see it.

And since they had the big CES announcement and huge media push, they cannot just roll it back.

It is what it is my friends and it is not going away.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

nooneuknow said:


> Only the title of a post within a thread works that way, not the thread title itself (post #1's title can be changed, but the title of the thread will remain as-is).


I see you are right. Thanks.


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> ... I would agree with TiVo that multiple OnePass's create too many overlaps, and would be difficult to design properly


Sounds like bs. You really don't think they wiped out their old code do you?



bradleys said:


> and very confusing at the consumer level.


OnePass isn't any less confusing than a Season pass just because you can only do one.

The only reason they don't let you do 2 OnePasses is because of the name and Tivo thinking this would be fine for all customers.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

I think that was pretty succinct and to the point. If I seem to be repeating myself it is only because the conversation continues to go around in circles.

Will tivo consider your request to add channel filtering to wish lists? Maybe they will, or maybe they will feel like the wish list functionality is a time tested, well designed process and adding channel filtering doesn't meet the specific design approach for that product.

We don't know - I have a feeling, but we don't know.


----------



## L David Matheny

realityboy said:


> You make reasonable posts, but even then you can't resist adding snipes that you know people will respond to. The majority of the people in this thread agree with your posts about the benefits of OnePass. They also agree Tivo isn't going to change it. Also most have discussed various workarounds. I even started a thread about it. Yet, you continue to maintain that anyone not 100% happy is just afraid of change. If you kept your posts to only mentioning positive things about OnePass (or even negative), I don't think there would be half as many posts in this thread.


Oh, don't be too hard on bradleys. He may be right about most users being oblivious and TiVo not listening to power users. But it's possible that TiVo's development team just didn't think eliminating multiple season passes would be an issue, and they might try harder now that it is. I hope TiVoMargret isn't the only person there who reads these forums. They should be required reading for at least some members of the hardware and software development teams, assuming that TiVo hopes to remain the high-end DVR solution.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

bradleys said:


> My only point is the change is a lot more that a loss of functionality.


If that was your only point, you really did not need to take such a condescending approach to make it.

Consider that the functionality that was sacrificed was an important part of the manner in which the TiVo had been used. It was not a minor feature that was jettisoned, it was something fundamental to the manner in which TiVo worked.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## WorldBandRadio

L David Matheny said:


> Can you try deselecting the SD channel(s) in the channel list as a test?


If I do that, then I lose the guide info for that channel and the auto records of the shows on that channel that I want.

Been there, done that.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

bradleys said:


> With 4+ tuners, conflicts are a lot less common...


With cable shows running a half minute or so past the last scheduled minute, the number of tuners is effectively halved when one tries to record multiple episodes that follow each other.

And yes, because of the above I've had to re-arrange a recording to avoid a conflict on my 6 tuner Roamio because I wanted to record a fourth show.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## WorldBandRadio

bradleys said:


> We having been beating tivo up for years for not innovating and not pushing forward. ...


Innovation does not require that past innovation be destroyed, as TiVo has done in this instance.


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> Sounds like bs. You really don't think they wiped out their old code do you?
> 
> OnePass isn't any less confusing than a Season pass just because you can only do one.
> 
> The only reason they don't let you do 2 OnePasses is because of the name and Tivo thinking this would be fine for all customers.


I never said that they wiped out the code for Season Pass, or the code to use multiple Season Passes. I said the base functionality of the OnePass is different that the Season Pass.

It has nothing to do with a name, it has to do with the fact that Season Pass was channel specific and OnePass is designed to work across all sources.

I also said, it is something that could be developed - if it were done correctly it would take work to make sure the user didn't create an identical OnePass, but it could be done.

Will they do it? I am just guessing, but I suspect not. And if they did decide to do it, it would take some effort to develop it, test it and deploy it - you cannot just re-release the Season Pass Code.


----------



## L David Matheny

nooneuknow said:


> So, now you understand why I suggested people make KMTTG backups as-is, before getting the update. I imagine people (with many multi-SPs, who want to divide them up between other TiVos) must get them relocated before the update, but don't know that part yet, for certain, either.
> 
> If the update doesn't affect you, or only absorbs a couple SPs into 1Ps, it still can't hurt to have a backup to compare before and after with. It should help most avoid overlooking something important that got changed, that way.


That's good advice, on which I need to act. And being paranoid from years of working with computers, I may also pull my Roamio's drive and clone it to another 3TB as an additional backup, although I'm not sure how much good that could do now that (at least a copy of) the software is kept in flash memory. What will happen if a drive with older software is reinstalled in a Roamio that has downloaded later software? Will the later (or even the latest available) software be (re)installed immediately during the boot process?


----------



## bradleys

WorldBandRadio said:


> If that was your only point, you really did not need to take such a condescending approach to make it.
> 
> Consider that the functionality that was sacrificed was an important part of the manner in which the TiVo had been used. It was not a minor feature that was jettisoned, it was something fundamental to the manner in which TiVo worked.


This is a point that I must disagree with. You have not lost some major component of functionality. It made sense for Multiple Season Passes because SP was limited to a single channel. 1P allows you to collect content from multiple channels and sources, categorized by season with multiple management and filtering options.

The functionality you had is now better.

The element you loose is the ability the define a higher priority to one class of content than to another class of content for the same show.

Useful, but not fundamental...

TiVo knows very well how many people use Season Passes in exactly that way, and believe me a report is sitting on Tom Rogers' desk this morning documenting exactly that!

If I were TiVo, that is what I would be working on... *A simple classification option within the OnePass model: Inherit Priority vs. low Priority for re-run content.* Easy to implement, easy to explain, stays within the current model.










The only use case this does not allow for is specifying SD vs. HD for the reruns...


----------



## Arcady

L David Matheny said:


> What will happen if a drive with older software is reinstalled in a Roamio that has downloaded later software? Will the later (or even the latest available) software be (re)installed immediately during the boot process?


If it doesn't update at boot, it will update as soon as it checks in.


----------



## L David Matheny

Arcady said:


> If it doesn't update at boot, it will update as soon as it checks in.


Updating when it checks in would be no problem, since I could delay that by disconnecting it from the Internet, allowing me to run KMTTG or whatever. But if a Roamio would force a re-update of its software during the boot process, that would be a showstopper.


----------



## Arcady

L David Matheny said:


> Updating when it checks in would be no problem, since I could delay that by disconnecting it from the Internet, allowing me to run KMTTG or whatever. But if a Roamio would force a re-update of its software during the boot process, that would be a showstopper.


The only time I have seen an update at boot is on a new box that hasn't done guided setup yet.

You can always install the drive and boot without a network connection at all. Then it can't update, even at boot.


----------



## Am_I_Evil

as i have never used more than one season pass per show i am looking forward to this update...i signed up on the priority list but like the day before the first group got it...here's to hoping i get it soon...


----------



## L David Matheny

bradleys said:


> This is a point that I must disagree with. You have not lost some major component of functionality. It made sense for Multiple Season Passes because SP was limited to a single channel. 1P allows you to collect content from multiple channels and sources, categorized by season with multiple management and filtering options.
> 
> The functionality you had is now better.
> 
> The element you loose is the ability the define a higher priority to one class of content than to another class of content for the same show.
> 
> Useful, but not fundamental...


It's prioritizing by channel that we've lost, and many of us consider that to be a significant function. As a "class of content", current showings on TV channels should have highest priority, since they're being fed to the TiVo anyway. Downloadable content should be next in priority, since it isn't subject to Internet congestion. And streaming-only content should be lowest in priority since it is connection-sensitive and may also be polluted with non-skippable commercial messages.



bradleys said:


> TiVo knows very well how many people use Season Passes in exactly that way, and believe me a report is sitting on Tom Rogers' desk this morning documenting exactly that!


I certainly hope you're right about that. TiVoMargret should also have a copy.


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> It's prioritizing by channel that we've lost, and many of us consider that to be a significant function. As a "class of content", current showings on TV channels should have highest priority, since they're being fed to the TiVo anyway. Downloadable content should be next in priority, since it isn't subject to Internet congestion. And streaming-only content should be lowest in priority since it is connection-sensitive and may also be polluted with non-skippable commercial messages.


So it isn't that you're worried that Re-Runs are going to take a higher priority to first runs and create conflict and lost recordings?

The concern is that you will loose the ability to specify the channel the content comes from within this lower class? As in SD content only for Reruns and HD content only for new episodes? And that this is fundamental to the function of the TiVo.


----------



## kbmb

Sad that Tivo's desire to be the next Roku is taking away from core functionality of being a good DVR. 

I'm still not convinced why they needed to change it? We had All Channels in the last version and that worked fine. So what, adding Streaming caused this to suddenly need to have a SP be tied to the show? Why? So what if I had streaming turned on for two SP entries for the same show......what's that hurting? 


-Kevin


----------



## L David Matheny

bradleys said:


> So it isn't that you're worried that Re-Runs are going to take a higher priority to first runs and create conflict and lost recordings?
> 
> The concern is that you will loose the ability to specify the channel the content comes from within this lower class? As in SD content only for Reruns and HD content only for new episodes? And that this is fundamental to the function of the TiVo.


I don't know what you mean by "within this lower class". Nearly all my season passes are set up to record "new and repeats", so the reruns I see are just programs repeated at least 28 days after the previous showing. I'm concerned with recording each program from the best OTA showing available, based on HD vs SD and quality of reception, which unfortunately varies by broadcast station.


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> I don't know what you mean by "within this lower class". Nearly all my season passes are set up to record "new and repeats", so the reruns I see are just programs repeated at least 28 days after the previous showing. I'm concerned with recording each program from the best OTA showing available, based on HD vs SD and quality of reception, which unfortunately varies by broadcast station.


Okay,

One Pass does allow you to either select a specific channel or All Channels as your source. It also allows you to determine HD vs SD (Always, Never, If Possible) I think those are the options.

When I talk about Classes, I am talking about setting different priorities for New vs Re-runs, that seems to be the biggest sticking point for most.

But I am trying to understand as an OTA only (I assume streaming as well) customer where this breaks for you. For a single show, you want to choose a channel - that is fine. That is why I asked about New vs Re-Runs, are you trying to choose a different channel for each "class" of show?

It doesn't sound like it from your post - sorry, just a little confused.


----------



## RoyK

kbmb said:


> Sad that Tivo's desire to be the next Roku is taking away from core functionality of being a good DVR.
> 
> I'm still not convinced why they needed to change it? We had All Channels in the last version and that worked fine. So what, adding Streaming caused this to suddenly need to have a SP be tied to the show? Why? So what if I had streaming turned on for two SP entries for the same show......what's that hurting?
> 
> -Kevin


Even if for some reason having more than one SP with streaming set is a problem it would seem to me that if 'streaming' is treated as just another channel for configuration purposes the problem solves itself. In the same way that the pre onepass software won't let you set 2 passes for the same show on the same channel one would not be able to select streaming for 2 passes for the same show.


----------



## lpwcomp

Having first run episodes of a lower priority 1P to take precedence over "real" reruns of a higher priority 1P would require a _*major*_ modification of the scheduler.


----------



## Dan203

I think this was a design decision, not a technical limitation. I mean the name is *One*Pass so they obviously had the idea to make it one per show from the beginning.

Unfortunately I just don't see them fixing this. The setup screen for a 1P already has quite a few more options then an old SP and as such looks more complex. I just can't imagine them adding even more options to change the settings for new vs reruns, etc... Unless maybe they add some sort of "Advanced" section that normal users don't have to click. But they don't seem to be too keen on that sort of thing, so I doubt it.

I know it sucks for some of you, but I think this is just how it is now. Unless they get a lot of backlash (this forum isn't enough) I think this is just going to be how it is from now on.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## aaronwt

It sounds like people are saying that with the One Pass when content is available to stream that it won't record from the cable/OTA channel? Is this really the case?

For me i have the shows available to recod on certain channels, and when I look at the folder it shows all the episodes avialble to stream as well as what I have recorded. Which I think is an excellent change.

So am I just not understanding how the One Pass works?


----------



## bradleys

aaronwt said:


> It sounds like people are saying that with the One Pass when content is available to stream that it won't record from the cable/OTA channel? Is this really the case?
> 
> For me i have the shows available to record on certain channels, and when I look at the folder it shows all the episodes avialble to stream as well as what I have recorded. Which I think is an excellent change.
> 
> So am I just not understanding how the One Pass works?


No, that is not true...

You can choose to record new and repeats, and you choose choose which season to start from. Streaming availability does not impact recording at all...


----------



## L David Matheny

nooneuknow said:


> TiVos tend to lose the ability to speak with each other or to PCs, if they can't sense a working internet connection. TiVo has loosened this from being as tight as it used to be, but don't count on partitioning the TiVos off the internet, and being able to communicate between them (at least not for long, or at all, if certain circumstances make the Tivo panic)


FWIW, I disconnected my DSL Internet gateway from my LAN and was still able to transfer a recording from my Premiere to my Roamio while watching a couple of other shows on the Roamio. Everything I tried seemed to work fine without an Internet connection, but I didn't take the time to use KMTTG.



nooneuknow said:


> Once the new code has been downloaded, checked for corruption, and committed to the flash, there is no "going back", unless it involves a TiVo backend error sending old code to your updated box, which is not supposed to happen (but has, and made a mess of things, even bricking some boxes).
> 
> The only time the software is on the hard drive is an intermediate step in the update process.
> 
> Installing a drive with recordings written by older software, will cause mass database corruption to the old drive, but not harm the TiVo flash, which is in read-only mode, much like a cell-phone or tablet's "ROM" is protected NAND, when in normal operational modes.


I thought it might be possible that the flash memory copy would used only to initialize a blank hard drive when necessary and that the working copy of the software might be kept on the hard drive. It sounds like I'll have to rely on KMTTG backups.



nooneuknow said:


> Given that I've delved-into rooting android devices, and started mucking about in "ROMs", mounted as R/W, I've found myself wondering why nobody has managed to root a TiVo, and have their way with it. Is TiVo's protection that good, or is no 10yr old interested in cracking one open? That's about all I can say without breaking rules, and/or upsetting certain types of members.


I'm probably too old to get psyched up for that sort of thing, but just out of curiosity, are functional characteristics manuals describing the instruction sets of their processors available from Broadcom? Are any disassemblers available for modern microprocessors?


----------



## L David Matheny

bradleys said:


> When I talk about Classes, I am talking about setting different priorities for New vs Re-runs, that seems to be the biggest sticking point for most.
> 
> But I am trying to understand as an OTA only (I assume streaming as well) customer where this breaks for you. For a single show, you want to choose a channel - that is fine. That is why I asked about New vs Re-Runs, are you trying to choose a different channel for each "class" of show?
> 
> It doesn't sound like it from your post - sorry, just a little confused.


New vs reruns isn't much of an issue for me. And my DSL is too slow for streaming, although I could do limited downloading if available. OTA reception quality varies from channel to channel. I need to be able to give the TiVo a list of channel priorities so that it can record each program from the best-received channel on which it is being shown. If I could sort the channel list into a priority order which would then be used by the scheduling logic, that should be sufficient for my purposes.


----------



## bradleys

Yes - For each OnePass you can define the specific channel to record from. You do not have to use the "All Channels" option - frankly, I do not think I have anything set to "All Channels".

At setup OnePass will give present you with the optional channels for the specific program as well as an "All Channels" option - this is useful if you want to record New Recordings from the primary source and reruns from a third tier channel.

Am I understanding your correctly?


----------



## HarperVision

I'm thinking the 20.4.6 release got rid of the 4 hour timeout period on the mini. Can someone else test and confirm?

Reason I'm saying is that yesterday I turned on my mini attached to my Slingbox to watch the SB pregame show on my iPad while I was getting ready to go party. This Slingbox is attached to my bedroom TV, but I can confirm that it hasn't been used since then and the soonest it could've been used would've been no later than 7:30am this morning when my wife left for work (but I was there too and she didn't use the TV and never usually does anyway) and it's now 11:56am here and I just logged onto my slingbox again and it is still on live TV.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bantar

bradleys said:


> The element you loose is the ability the define a higher priority to one class of content than to another class of content for the same show.
> 
> If I were TiVo, that is what I would be working on... *A simple classification option within the OnePass model: Inherit Priority vs. low Priority for re-run content.* Easy to implement, easy to explain, stays within the current model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only use case this does not allow for is specifying SD vs. HD for the reruns...


You are on the right track, but your use case is incomplete based on what others have been saying. (While it doesn't really matter, I have no dog in this hunt). I see the following needs:

1) Scheduling Priority - new vs reruns
2) KAM Priority - keep ALL new up to KAM limit - DO NOT delete new content to record a rerun. Note: This does not necessarily mean that new are set to keep-until-delete.
3) And, if you use the word "Inheritance" in a publicly accessible UI, no one will understand it's meaning!

Bottom line is the desire for reruns to be "2nd class citizens" in all respects.

In my mind, the easiest to comprehend model is to allow a OnePass to pull from Recordings, Streaming and ALSO from a "special" source of recordings. That special source of recordings is the plain-old SP that we all know and love. A SP is one channel only and it would have its own entry in the priority list. Easiest for the masses to grasp and setup. Identical in the way add a 2nd SP works today.

While the technology can be adapted, let's not forget that Marketing named the new pass: "OnePass". Lest their feelings get hurt, the new 2nd SP would need a new name too as to not defy the almightyness of the OnePass. For instance, they could call it a "Rerun Pass". 

Assuming that the OnePass shows all recordings in the same Folder, then it remains my OnePass for said show. The tentacle for Reruns is just a scheduling detail. I still have one go-to spot for one show.

Talk about reusing already established paradigms and fitting in with the new!

(Even this isn't as trivial as explained. There are other use cases and caveats that I'm purposely ignoring to convey a point).


----------



## bradleys

bantar said:


> In my mind, the easiest to comprehend model is to allow a OnePass to pull from Recordings, Streaming and ALSO from a "special" source of recordings. That special source of recordings is the plain-old SP that we all know and love. A SP is one channel only and it would have its own entry in the priority list. Easiest for the masses to grasp and setup. Identical in the way add a 2nd SP works today.


Interesting,

So, if you already have a OnePass for a show you would be presented with an option to create a "special source pass"? Interesting idea, but what about overlap?

The Special Source Pass can only allow you to make selections outside of the pre-defined OnePass. Say you created an _all channels, new and repeat_ OnePass and then you try to create a special source pass - would all the options be grayed out with a "No Options Available" warning?

It is interesting concept, but programming would need to ensure that the two "Passes" do not overlap each other.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Dan203

HarperVision said:


> I'm thinking the 20.4.6 release got rid of the 4 hour timeout period on the mini. Can someone else test and confirm?
> 
> Reason I'm saying is that yesterday I turned on my mini attached to my Slingbox to watch the SB pregame show on my iPad while I was getting ready to go party. This Slingbox is attached to my bedroom TV, but I can confirm that it hasn't been used since then and the soonest it could've been used would've been no later than 7:30am this morning when my wife left for work (but I was there too and she didn't use the TV and never usually does anyway) and it's now 11:56am here and I just logged onto my slingbox again and it is still on live TV.


I've found mine on live TV a few times, even before the update, and I *never* use it for live TV. I think what happens is an EAS will kick it out to live TV even if you're not actively watching it. It you try to use it within 4 hours of that then it can still be on live TV even if it hasn't been used for much longer.


----------



## L David Matheny

bantar said:


> While the technology can be adapted, let's not forget that Marketing named the new pass: "OnePass". Lest their feelings get hurt, the new 2nd SP would need a new name too as to not defy the almightyness of the OnePass. For instance, they could call it a "Rerun Pass".


And I still say that's just silly absolutism. The "One" in "OnePass" should refer to the fact that only one type of pass is needed to draw on programming from many sources, not that only one instance of it is allowed per program. TiVo must have some better reason for the limitation, like allowing multiple OnePasses would be too challenging for their programmers. To be the Devil's advocate, it is indeed true that anything that makes program code more complicated increases the chance of bugs. But as Einstein said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> I've found mine on live TV a few times, even before the update, and I never use it for live TV. I think what happens is an EAS will kick it out to live TV even if you're not actively watching it. It you try to use it within 4 hours of that then it can still be on live TV even if it hasn't been used for much longer.


Yeah, could be. Will that happen even if it's in the screen saver mode?

I do kind of doubt that we got an EAS message sometime after 7:30 am this morning though.

I'll keep an eye out for it though and see if it's a pattern.

Maybe someone else can chime in with their experience.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> And I still say that's just silly absolutism. The "One" in "OnePass" should refer to the fact that only one type of pass is needed to draw on programming from many sources, not that only one instance of it is allowed per program. TiVo must have some better reason for the limitation, like allowing multiple OnePasses would be too challenging for their programmers. To be the Devil's advocate, it is indeed true that anything that makes program code more complicated increases the chance of bugs. But as Einstein said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."


I agree with you Dave, it has nothing to do with the name, it is about the design and OnePass was named based on the design... So right reason wrong order.

Managing the overlap across channels and services - a feature built into OnePass and that gives it it's name is what makes it hard. You would have to create a mechanism that prohibits any overlap in your multiple passes...

Difficult? I don't now.


----------



## Dan203

L David Matheny said:


> And I still say that's just silly absolutism. The "One" in "OnePass" should refer to the fact that only one type of pass is needed to draw on programming from many sources, not that only one instance of it is allowed per program. TiVo must have some better reason for the limitation, like allowing multiple OnePasses would be too challenging for their programmers. To be the Devil's advocate, it is indeed true that anything that makes program code more complicated increases the chance of bugs. But as Einstein said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."


I'm fairly certain this was not a developer limitation. I mean there is really no difference between a SP and a 1P, and you were allowed to have multiple SPs for the same show. I'm almost certain this was a design decision. They're trying to create a correlation between the list in My Shows and the 1P. (this is why grouping is always on now) This wouldn't really work, from a design standpoint, if they allowed multiple 1Ps.


----------



## bantar

bradleys said:


> Interesting,
> 
> So, if you already have a OnePass for a show you would be presented with an option to create a "special source pass"? Interesting idea, but what about overlap?
> 
> The Special Source Pass can only allow you to make selections outside of the pre-defined OnePass. Say you created an _all channels, new and repeat_ OnePass and then you try to create a special source pass - would all the options be grayed out with a "No Options Available" warning?
> 
> It is interesting concept, but programming would need to ensure that the two "Passes" do not overlap each other.


You bring up one of those caveats that I mentioned.... I would think of it in this manner. You can have a basic OnePass that gets new and reruns, or apply special treatment to your reruns. Maybe along the lines of "Customize Rerun Handling". In a sense, it's an advanced feature option. Basic gets you mixed handling of new and repeats and advanced gets you separate handling (priority, KAM).

HOWEVER, I think everyone that's recording NEW and REPEATS agrees that NEW, by the very laws of nature, MUST be higher priority and more important than reruns. OnePass allows you to set a start from season and go until today. New show handling being lost amongst reruns is just wrong, wrong, wrong!


----------



## bantar

L David Matheny said:


> And I still say that's just silly absolutism. The "One" in "OnePass" should refer to the fact that only one type of pass is needed to draw on programming from many sources, not that only one instance of it is allowed per program. "


Agreed. But, you can't discount the pressure that marketing would apply if your mess with their messaging. I'll bet that they had dozens of meetings to just to choose this new SP name. It is imperative that the Marketing folks are happy too. The model that I represented keeps this in check. Don't fight it, but find a way to fit in.


----------



## Dan203

Everything you're suggesting is WAY too complex for TiVo. There is no way they would do that. They'd go back to multiple SPs before they did anything like that. 

One thing they might be able to do to fix this easily would be add a way for Wish Lists to be channel specific. If they added a channel field to a WL then advanced users could use WLs to revive the functionality they're use to with the old SPs.


----------



## L David Matheny

bradleys said:


> Yes - For each OnePass you can define the specific channel to record from. You do not have to use the "All Channels" option - frankly, I do not think I have anything set to "All Channels".
> 
> At setup OnePass will give present you with the optional channels for the specific program as well as an "All Channels" option - this is useful if you want to record New Recordings from the primary source and reruns from a third tier channel.


Let's say I receive OTA channels 20.1HD, 20.2SD, 33.1HD and 33.2SD, and reception is better for channel 33 than for channel 20. Some programs may be available on any or all of those four. For each of those programs, the TiVo needs to record from 33.1 (if the program is available there), else 20.1 (if available), else 33.2 (if available), else 20.1 (if available). As I've said before, just sorting the channel list into priority order should suffice (for my needs), if the scheduling logic would follow that priority. Surely we've beat this to death by now.


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> I'm fairly certain this was not a developer limitation. I mean there is really no difference between a SP and a 1P, and you were allowed to have multiple SPs for the same show. I'm almost certain this was a design decision. They're trying to create a correlation between the list in My Shows and the 1P. (this is why grouping is always on now) This wouldn't really work, from a design standpoint, if they allowed multiple 1Ps.


Correct - but how does the Season Pass solution deal with overlaps in today's world?

If I have a Season Pass for Big Bang Theory new and Repeats, for channel 850, Keep only 10.

And I try to create a second Season Pass for Big Bang Theory new only, for channel 850, KUID, how does the Season Pass deal with this conflict in today's world.

I "think" the issue is multiple OnePass would need to be managed in a way to eliminate conflicts with a tool that is now designed to work across channels and services and time.

This would take a pretty robust conflict management protocol and a mechanism to help the user understand why it won't let you do what you want to do.

That - and it is name ONE for god sake!  (Just kidding, relax)


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> Let's say I receive OTA channels 20.1HD, 20.2SD, 33.1HD and 33.2SD, and reception is better for channel 33 than for channel 20. Some programs may be available on any or all of those four. For each of those programs, the TiVo needs to record from 33.1 (if the program is available there), else 20.1 (if available), else 33.2 (if available), else 20.1 (if available). As I've said before, just sorting the channel list into priority order should suffice (for my needs), if the scheduling logic would follow that priority. Surely we've beat this to death by now.


I hope I am following you, because I think you are in good shape.

For each program you create a OnePass for (Say Big Bang Theory) you can define a specific channel. (Say 33.1HD). You do not have to select All Channels.

That really is the same way Season Pass worked, and nothing has changed. The issue is if you also want to then get reruns from 20.2SD, it might cause you problems.

You can select New and Repeat, HD when available, all channels and it "should" work for you - but with your channel setup, I don't know.


----------



## L David Matheny

Dan203 said:


> I'm fairly certain this was not a developer limitation. I mean there is really no difference between a SP and a 1P, and you were allowed to have multiple SPs for the same show. I'm almost certain this was a design decision. They're trying to create a correlation between the list in My Shows and the 1P. (this is why grouping is always on now) This wouldn't really work, from a design standpoint, if they allowed multiple 1Ps.


I haven't thought it through, but I think I see what you're referring to. Still, I think TiVo's systems analysts and programmers need to try their hardest to come up with some workable solution that doesn't involve taking away significant functionality, even if most people weren't using the advanced functions.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

aaronwt said:


> It sounds like people are saying that with the One Pass when content is available to stream that it won't record from the cable/OTA channel? Is this really the case?
> 
> For me i have the shows available to recod on certain channels, and when I look at the folder it shows all the episodes avialble to stream as well as what I have recorded. Which I think is an excellent change.
> 
> So am I just not understanding how the One Pass works?


Streaming availability does not keep anything from recording. The entries are simply links to that episode on the corresponding source. What people are saying is that if you set a 1P for a program, like The Simpsons, to record new and reruns, the reruns are given the same priority as the new. So, let's say 7 programs end up trying to record at the same time, 6 of which are new episodes and one is a Simpsons rerun. Let's also say, The Simpsons is higher on your priority list than 1 or more of the others. Since one of the others has a lower priority than The Simpsons, it will not record because The Simpsons rerun has the higher priority. With SPs, you can set the new Simpsons to a high priority and the rerun Simpsons to a lower priority, you can no longer do that with 1P.


----------



## RoyK

Dan203 said:


> I'm fairly certain this was not a developer limitation. I mean there is really no difference between a SP and a 1P, and you were allowed to have multiple SPs for the same show. I'm almost certain this was a design decision. They're trying to create a correlation between the list in My Shows and the 1P. (this is why grouping is always on now) This wouldn't really work, from a design standpoint, if they allowed multiple 1Ps.


Precisely.. The now obsolete SP was a setup function for scheduling recordings. Period. This new paradigm attempts to be that plus configure the display of the my programs list which now optionally also contains a bunch of search results having nothing whatever to do with recording scheduling. So to cram this new stuff where it really doesn't belong the old functionality has been crippled.


----------



## L David Matheny

bantar said:


> Agreed. But, you can't discount the pressure that marketing would apply if your mess with their messaging. I'll bet that they had dozens of meetings to just to choose this new SP name. It is imperative that the Marketing folks are happy too. The model that I represented keeps this in check. Don't fight it, but find a way to fit in.


The only thing worse than the marketing department taking over is when the legal department takes over. I think TiVo was started by engineers; let's hope they're still in charge.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Arcady

I have a solution to the whole problem.

Buy a Series 3 with Lifetime, a big bag of capacitors, and a soldering iron. You get to keep old fashioned season passes, you get to learn soldering when the power supply fails, and you never have to worry about TiVo updating the software.


----------



## RoyK

L David Matheny said:


> The only thing worse than the marketing department taking over is when the legal department takes over. I think TiVo was started by engineers; let's hope they're still in charge.


Now don't be so hard on marketing folk. I've worked with lots of them over my 45 year career. One of them even had an IQ over 80 but I think she retired several years ago.


----------



## bantar

L David Matheny said:


> The only thing worse than the marketing department taking over is when the legal department takes over. I think TiVo was started by engineers; let's hope they're still in charge.


How silly of you. I'll bet the engineers weren't even invited to the Christmas party with the suits. Engineers are paid to foresee such problems and provide design solutions that work. I'm sure many good and useful ideas were flushed to arrive at this solution. Like any batch of engineers, you keep them well-fed and locked away in the basement.

Did GM management listen to the engineer who recommended an ignition lock redesign? No. They probably used the legal team to silence him!


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> Everything you're suggesting is WAY too complex for TiVo. There is no way they would do that. They'd go back to multiple SPs before they did anything like that.
> 
> One thing they might be able to do to fix this easily would be add a way for Wish Lists to be channel specific. If they added a channel field to a WL then advanced users could use WLs to revive the functionality they're use to with the old SPs.


Exactly...


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> It is interesting concept, but programming would need to ensure that the two "Passes" do not overlap each other.


Not really, Wish Lists and 1Ps already overlap. I have a Wish List set for "New only" for The Simpsons. I also have a 1P set for "New and repeats" for the Simpsons for FXX. The Wish List catches the new episodes on Fox and the 1P catches the reruns on FXX. If there were a New episode on FXX, both would record it.

FWIW, I know at least one program that has New episodes on 2 different channels, "Fast 'N Loud" on Velocity and Discovery, though they may have fixed that. I had an SP set to record "New only" and couldn't figure out why I got duplicates. Both Velocity and Discovery chose to set their episodes to New if it was the first time being broadcast on their channel. PBS also had a habit of setting the first rerun to New if it's broadcast that same day, I used to get duplicates of Downton Abbey too.

Those are probably unintended errors, but the point is the Tivo handled them just fine and when the new season starts, I'll try the same Wish List/1P setup to see what happens if Discovery and Velocity both set the New indicator.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DoubleDAZ

Dan203 said:


> One thing they might be able to do to fix this easily would be add a way for Wish Lists to be channel specific. If they added a channel field to a WL then advanced users could use WLs to revive the functionality they're use to with the old SPs.


I already have a Wish List set for "New only" for The Simpsons. I also have a 1P set for "New and repeats" for the Simpsons for FXX. The Wish List catches the new episodes on Fox and the 1P catches the reruns on FXX, at least that's the plan. One caveat though is that the 1P set up after the WL still says it's updating, since last night, so I'm not sure what's going to happen on Sunday when both new and repeats are on the schedule. The To Do List shows all scheduled recordings appear to be correct.


----------



## RacShade

OnePass is an incredible, groundbreaking feature. Everyone who I've told about it or shown it has been blown away. It actually works great. This isn't going to be a disaster. This is a reason people will either get their first TiVo or upgrade to a Roamio, including me. (I know Premieres will support it, but IMO they lack the horsepower to offer a great user experience in the streaming apps.) I can sympathize with the notion that functionality is being removed, but to act like this is some apocalyptic blunder on TiVo's part is insanity. This is a huge net gain for almost every current and potential TiVo user. 

Please let me know where I can mail some Simpsons DVD box sets so I don't have to wade through 100 posts a day whining (and don't kid yourselves, that really is the only word at this point) about some ridiculous niche use case in order to find more pertinent information here.

And no, the Ignore feature in the forums doesn't work if people are quoting and responding to it anyway.


----------



## bradleys

nooneuknow said:


> It has been interesting to watch you evolve from completely dismissing the CH specific WLs, to unlikely, to maybe, to "exactly".
> 
> It's still not going to be pretty, if the grouping separates them away from the rest. But, baby steps, I guess...


I am not really coming around to anyone's way of thinking I am afraid to say. First, I have never used multiple Season Passes. Second, the complexity is pretty high to bring in all the use cases requested.

I have tried to create a data flow diagram to show the overlap complexity differences between a OnePass and a Season Pass - and it isn't easy by any stretch.

I plan on testng some of my Season Pass assumptions when I have time tonight - if my assumptions are true, implementing conflict resolution against the new structure is going to be a difficult job. And doing it in a way that works at the user level would be an interesting assignment.

Impossible? No...

So, I really am not changing my mind. I do think tivo needs to allow you to set a lower priority on reruns to avoid conflicts though...


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> Precisely.. The now obsolete SP was a setup function for scheduling recordings. Period. This new paradigm attempts to be that plus configure the display of the my programs list which now optionally also contains a bunch of search results having nothing whatever to do with recording scheduling. So to cram this new stuff where it really doesn't belong the old functionality has been crippled.


I still don't get why they say they can't allow multiple 1Ps. The display of streaming episodes are just a list of links. What difference would it make if they were displayed for multiple 1Ps? Unless they already have other enhancements in the works that we aren't privy to. I get that it'd be kind of convoluted to have the same display in multiple 1Ps, but that would be the users problem to manage, not arbitrarily limit the user in other areas.


----------



## HarperVision

RacShade said:


> OnePass is an incredible, groundbreaking feature. Everyone who I've told about it or shown it has been blown away. It actually works great. This isn't going to be a disaster. This is a reason people will either get their first TiVo or upgrade to a Roamio, including me. (I know Premieres will support it, but IMO they lack the horsepower to offer a great user experience in the streaming apps.) I can sympathize with the notion that functionality is being removed, but to act like this is some apocalyptic blunder on TiVo's part is insanity. This is a huge net gain for almost every current and potential TiVo user. Please let me know where I can mail some Simpsons DVD box sets so I don't have to wade through 100 posts a day whining (and don't kid yourselves, that really is the only word at this point) about some ridiculous niche use case in order to find more pertinent information here. And no, the Ignore feature in the forums doesn't work if people are quoting and responding to it anyway.


I think I have to agree with this. Not that you guys don't have valid arguments about losing functionality, but in the end I think this will benefit TiVo exponentially.


----------



## Dan203

bradleys said:


> Correct - but how does the Season Pass solution deal with overlaps in today's world?
> 
> If I have a Season Pass for Big Bang Theory new and Repeats, for channel 850, Keep only 10.
> 
> And I try to create a second Season Pass for Big Bang Theory new only, for channel 850, KUID, how does the Season Pass deal with this conflict in today's world.


You weren't allowed to have multiple SPs for the same channel. You could have had one for "All channels" and one for a specific channel that might have caused a conflict like this, but in that case the higher priority one would have simply won out and the resulting recording would have inherited the settings from it.


----------



## Dan203

DoubleDAZ said:


> I already have a Wish List set for "New only" for The Simpsons. I also have a 1P set for "New and repeats" for the Simpsons for FXX. The Wish List catches the new episodes on Fox and the 1P catches the reruns on FXX, at least that's the plan. One caveat though is that the 1P set up after the WL still says it's updating, since last night, so I'm not sure what's going to happen on Sunday when both new and repeats are on the schedule. The To Do List shows all scheduled recordings appear to be correct.


Yeah, but with a more generic show name (i.e Elementary, Forever, etc..) it might not be as easy. Although I guess if you use the right combination of settings (i.e. actors, genre, etc...) you might be able to ensure it only gets the show you want. But allowing it to be channel specific would ensure that even more.


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> You weren't allowed to have multiple SPs for the same channel. You could have had one for "All channels" and one for a specific channel that might have caused a conflict like this, but in that case the higher priority one would have simply won out and the resulting recording would have inherited the settings from it.


So if TiVo were to allow a person to create child records to a OnePass, any overlap of the child to the parent could be ignored. Some validation could be done during child creation to ensure overlap was minimized.

Everything would stay in the same folder...

That is how I would aproach it.

Sounds completely unTiVo...


----------



## RoyK

HarperVision said:


> I think I have to agree with this. Not that you guys don't have valid arguments about losing functionality, but in the end I think this will benefit TiVo exponentially.


While some of us think the term groundbreaking is marketing hype I only know of one who doesn't think it's a great idea. And he has backed down I think. Some of us just feel that it can and should be implemented without sacrificing extremely useful functionality.


----------



## HarperVision

RoyK said:


> While some of us think the term groundbreaking is marketing hype I only know of one who doesn't think it's a great idea. And he has backed down I think. Some of us just feel that it can and should be implemented without sacrificing extremely useful functionality.


Agreed.


----------



## Dan203

bradleys said:


> So if TiVo were to allow a person to create child records to a OnePass, any overlap of the child to the parent could be ignored. Some validation could be done during child creation to ensure overlap was minimized.
> 
> Everything would stay in the same folder...
> 
> That is how I would aproach it.
> 
> Sounds completely unTiVo...


This is how WL work. If you record an episode of a show via a WL it will still show in the 1P group in My Shows. (I think it also creates a second group for the WL itself though)


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> This is how WL work. If you record an episode of a show via a WL it will still show in the 1P group in My Shows. (I think it also creates a second group for the WL itself though)


Yeah, folder with a star...

My fear is tivo will look at modifying the WL as an unnecessary change to a product with a proven core use. Hard to say, it could potentially fix some issues.


----------



## slopes

Hi,

Does anyone know if the update was released to premieres yet?

Thanks


----------



## bradleys

Late February I think is what we heard...


----------



## Dan203

Premiere units on the Priority list I think will start getting it tomorrow.


----------



## innocentfreak

RoyK said:


> While some of us think the term groundbreaking is marketing hype I only know of one who doesn't think it's a great idea. And he has backed down I think. Some of us just feel that it can and should be implemented without sacrificing extremely useful functionality.


Yeah I wouldn't say it is groundbreaking. I would say it is interesting, but for me too limited for how I would want to be able to use it. Then again all my content is stored locally and I don't stream anything from Netflix or Amazon since I can't stand how trickplay works on streamed content excluding MRS.

I just don't see me ever using the feature unless they incorporate local content which would more than likely require a new TiVo Desktop.


----------



## tatergator1

HarperVision said:


> Yeah, could be. Will that happen even if it's in the screen saver mode?
> 
> I do kind of doubt that we got an EAS message sometime after 7:30 am this morning though.
> 
> I'll keep an eye out for it though and see if it's a pattern.
> 
> Maybe someone else can chime in with their experience.


We've discussed this some in the past and Dan suggested EAS back then and it's always what's made the most sense. My Mini has a tuner allocated 3-4 days a week in the early morning when I first turn the TV with my Roamio Plus on. It's always released later in the morning with zero interaction with the Mini.


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> IIRC, if you link your Hulu Plus account to your Cox account, you can get episodes without even having to wait a day. I only found that out by visiting the Hulu website recently, and have no idea how long it's been that way.
> 
> Your "good use" scenario sounds nice. Hopefully, it will work like that.


Thanks I had not seen that before.
Does this only work on the computer, or will it work for TiVo also?


----------



## bradleys

innocentfreak said:


> Yeah I wouldn't say it is groundbreaking. I would say it is interesting, but for me too limited for how I would want to be able to use it. Then again all my content is stored locally and I don't stream anything from Netflix or Amazon since I can't stand how trickplay works on streamed content excluding MRS.
> 
> I just don't see me ever using the feature unless they incorporate local content which would more than likely require a new TiVo Desktop.


Locally stored content is still a huge piece of functionality that tivo has all but let die.

I would really love to see some effort toward this!


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## RoyK

nooneuknow said:


> Yes, I have backed down from discarding all the positive, just over the negative, effectively backing down on my absurd initial "Death to OnePass" and "OnePass sucks" mentality/mindset/madness, when I was also even reviewing the proper way to file an official complaint with TiVo legal (also swept of the table).
> 
> Unfortunately, I can't fix things to make it so those newly coming into this thread, and the parallel ones, starting from post #1, don't see all the ugliness, which will cause some to lash out, racking up those replies at the end of the thread, as they reply to old posts, before they get to the point of seeing I have revised my positions, and have backed down.


As they say in these parts "It's all good.".


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DeltaOne

DeltaOne said:


> I've been wondering about the show Wheeler Dealers. Just last night saw a commercial for a new show later this week. But a recording isn't on my To Do list and the guide shows repeats that night.
> 
> Isn't there any way we can get the guide data fixed?


I reported the guide problem regarding Wheeler Dealers to TiVo. Just got a reply saying they're working with the vendor to resolve the issue. Here's the reply:

------
_A TiVo Channel Lineup Specialist will work to resolve the issue as quickly as possible with our Program Guide Data provider. This typically takes five to seven business days. Most lineup changes are downloaded to your TiVo box automatically during a daily connection, so you won't need to change your Season Passes or other scheduled recordings. _
------


----------



## shoek

There's so many posts on this thread that the OP (TiVoMargaret) will likely never add a response to it. I like the release note threads that have good back and forth between TiVo and its users.


----------



## Bierboy

keenanSR said:


> Leap-frogged over LED displays, went from CRT to plasma, never saw an LED display that had good enough picture quality.


This.


----------



## Bierboy

astrohip said:


> ...Remember when you could read captions at FF1X? I used that every day, and when it was lost, I brought it up a few times, until Margret said the new code base killed it, and it wasn't coming back. So I moved on. Life has a way of making you do that....


This is a feature I used to enjoy having also. I, too, have moved on. Doesn't mean I don't still wish it were there, but you get over it....


----------



## L David Matheny

shoek said:


> There's so many posts on this thread that the OP (TiVoMargaret) will likely never add a response to it. I like the release note threads that have good back and forth between TiVo and its users.


The fact that there are so many posts is all the more reason that TiVoMargret or somebody at TiVo should be reading this thread (and other related threads).


----------



## TiVoMargret

Dan203 said:


> Premiere units on the Priority list I think will start getting it tomorrow.


There will be a delay in moving TiVo Premiere households to 20.4.6. I will post an update when I have more information.

--Margret


----------



## lpwcomp

I just ran into some extremely disturbing in the behavior of my updated Roamio Basic. Yesterday, I did a CPI&TDL (for other reasons), so it scheduled all 4 episodes "Face Off" showing today. So I went into the To Do List to remove the earlier episodes. What I saw in the To Do List was what was disturbing. It indicated that neither "Jeopardy" nor the manual repeating recording I have for the channel to which it is occasionally moved at the last minute were being recorded due to conflicts. That makes absolutely no sense as the 1P for "Jeopardy" is #1 in my 1P list and the repeating manual recording is #2.


----------



## ajwees41

TiVoMargret said:


> There will be a delay in moving TiVo Premiere households to 20.4.6. I will post an update when I have more information.
> 
> --Margret


will having the premiere with an updated ios app still allow the app to see the tivo or users no longer be able to view season passes via the new app? why not release one pass and move the amazon streaming to the next update with vudu?

what's the issue? aren't the premieres and roamios on the same software now?


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> I just ran into some extremely disturbing in the behavior of my updated Roamio Basic. Yesterday, I did a CPI&TDL (for other reasons), so it scheduled all 4 episodes "Face Off" showing today. So I went into the To Do List to remove the earlier episodes. What I saw in the To Do List was what was disturbing. It indicated that neither "Jeopardy" nor the manual repeating recording I have for the channel to which it is occasionally moved at the last minute were being recorded due to conflicts. That makes absolutely no sense as the 1P for "Jeopardy" is #1 in my 1P list and the repeating manual recording is #2.


Yikes! That's a show stopper.


----------



## Dan203

lpwcomp said:


> I just ran into some extremely disturbing in the behavior of my updated Roamio Basic. Yesterday, I did a CPI&TDL (for other reasons), so it scheduled all 4 episodes "Face Off" showing today. So I went into the To Do List to remove the earlier episodes. What I saw in the To Do List was what was disturbing. It indicated that neither "Jeopardy" nor the manual repeating recording I have for the channel to which it is occasionally moved at the last minute were being recorded due to conflicts. That makes absolutely no sense as the 1P for "Jeopardy" is #1 in my 1P list and the repeating manual recording is #2.


After a clear like that it can take several hours for all the data to get indexed and the To Do List to get completely updated. Did you check it later to see if it corrected itself?


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Yikes! That's a show stopper.


I agree. I wish I hadn't panicked and fixed it so I could find out if it was just a reporting error. Both recordings are backups. The primary recording is on my Pro.


----------



## elwaylite

Dan203 said:


> You can still sort alphabetically, which would allow you to find a movie by name. You can also turn on the left hand column and add a movie filter to the list so that it only shows movies and then sort by date if you want.


Im sorry, but not simply being able to have all your shows ungrouped in order from old to new, or new to old, is galactically stupid. Directv just broke the same thing recently on a Genie update...

We stay an average of 6-8 weeks behind on recordings, and I like to sit down and watch the oldest stuff first. I mean why do I have to hunt out episodes to watch in the ORDER THEY WERE RECORDED?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

elwaylite said:


> Im sorry, but not simply being able to have all your shows ungrouped in order from old to new, or new to old, is galactically stupid. Directv just broke the same thing recently on a Genie update...
> 
> We stay an average of 6-8 weeks behind on recordings, and I like to sit down and watch the oldest stuff first. I mean why do I have to hunt out episodes to watch in the ORDER THEY WERE RECORDED?


I assume they don't want to turn off groups because the list with recordings and streaming could be untenable. Obviously, there are ways to deal with this, but I don't know the code or how much programming space there is to add too many features/options. I think it should be as simple as automatically switching to "recordings" whenever groups are turned off.


----------



## JWhites

ajwees41 said:


> will having the premiere with an updated ios app still allow the app to see the tivo or users no longer be able to view season passes via the new app? why not release one pass and move the amazon streaming to the next update with vudu?
> 
> what's the issue? aren't the premieres and roamios on the same software now?


Using the new app on a Premiere that hasn't gotten the 20.4.6 update will simply act like it did before the app was updated with it showing Season Pass settings.

Currently the only models updated for 20.4.6 are Roamios and Mini's on the priority update list. Premieres that are on the priority update list should be getting the update starting sometime this week. The premium content download and hopefully H.264 operability should be out sometime between now and March, fingers crossed.

Here is the webpage and FAQ about this stuff. http://www.tivo.com/onepass


----------



## lpwcomp

DoubleDAZ said:


> I assume they don't want to turn off groups because the list with recordings and streaming could be untenable. Obviously, there are ways to deal with this, but I don't know the code or how much programming space there is to add too many features/options. I think it should be as simple as automatically switching to "recordings" whenever groups are turned off.


Turning off groups is no longer an option.


----------



## elwaylite

DoubleDAZ said:


> I assume they don't want to turn off groups because the list with recordings and streaming could be untenable. Obviously, there are ways to deal with this, but I don't know the code or how much programming space there is to add too many features/options. I think it should be as simple as automatically switching to "recordings" whenever groups are turned off.


Thats what kills me. These companies keep wanting to turn a DVR into more and more and more, which is fine, but keep the simple stuff simple.

For someone with over 100 hours recorded, over say 20 different series, trying to watch them in order now is a cluster screw. Before I kept them ungrouped and started at the bottom and just watched them in order.

Now, I have a single episode of How to Get Away with Murder (dated 1/29) showing as older than a Elementart Folder (2 episodes). When you go into the Elementary folder it has one episode from 1/29, and then one from 1/22!!!

I have a Justified Folder that is 6 days higher than a single episode American Horror Story Episode, and the Justified Folder has an episode recorded right around that same episode of AHS.

That ordering by "date" makes no damn sense.


----------



## elwaylite

lpwcomp said:


> Turning off groups is no longer an option.


Just blows my mind. I have been busy and and hadn't messed with the Tivo until tonight.

It's amazing the DVR has become something unable to sort episodes easily in order of date recorded... I mean that is tough stuff right there!

But hey, I got Netflix on 12 different devices...


----------



## lpwcomp

elwaylite said:


> Thats what kills me. These companies keep wanting to turn a DVR into more and more and more, which is fine, but keep the simple stuff simple.
> 
> For someone with over 100 hours recorded, over say 20 different series, trying to watch them in order now is a cluster screw. Before I kept them ungrouped and started at the bottom and just watched them in order.
> 
> Now, I have a single episode of How to Get Away with Murder (dated 1/29) showing as older than a Elementart Folder (2 episodes). When you go into the Elementary folder it has one episode from 1/29, and then one from 1/22!!!
> 
> I have a Justified Folder that is 6 days higher than a single episode American Horror Story Episode, and the Justified Folder has an episode recorded right around that same episode of AHS.
> 
> That ordering by "date" makes no damn sense.


I'm a bit confused by your complaint being in this thread, unless you're complaining about the inability to turn off groups. Sorting of groups by date has always been based on the most recent recording in the group.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

lpwcomp said:


> I'm a bit confused by your complaint being in this thread, unless you're complaining about the inability to turn off groups. Sorting of groups by date has always been based on the most recent recording in the group.


He is and I know we can no longer turn off groups.  I was giving my opinion as to why they took that option away and how easy I think it would have been to keep it in.

I admit I don't get the rationale behind watching the oldest episode out of "everything" before you watch the oldest episode from a different series that may happen to be newer. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with doing it that way, I just don't get it. I watch what I'm in the mood for no matter how old it is. All I care is that I watch the oldest episode of a given series before newer episode and I can still do that.

I must admit though that I also don't understand why a group would move up in the list based on a new recording. It seems to me that date sequence would dictate that the group with the oldest recording should be at the bottom. After all, those recordings are the first deleted when space is needed, are they not?


----------



## Arcady

The oldest folder would have the oldest recording in it. What's the problem? Go to the bottom of the My Shows list and there is your oldest recording.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here.


----------



## lpwcomp

Arcady said:


> The oldest folder would have the oldest recording in it. What's the problem? Go to the bottom of the My Shows list and there is your oldest recording.
> 
> I'm not sure what I'm missing here.


What you're missing is the fact that the sort is based on the *newest* recording in the group.


----------



## CoxInPHX

nooneuknow said:


> IIRC, if you link your Hulu Plus account to your Cox account, you can get episodes without even having to wait a day. I only found that out by visiting the Hulu website recently, and have no idea how long it's been that way.
> 
> Your "good use" scenario sounds nice. Hopefully, it will work like that.





CoxInPHX said:


> Thanks I had not seen that before.
> Does this only work on the computer, or will it work for TiVo also?


Unfortunately, Connecting Hulu with your Pay-TV Provider only works on the PC with Hulu and not HuluPlus via devices. :down::down::down:

Even if this did work for HuluPlus, the linking to Cox, does not stay linked, I linked yesterday and today I had to relink to Cox again.
http://www.hulu.com/help/articles/24194057


----------



## lpwcomp

DoubleDAZ said:


> I admit I don't get the rationale behind watching the oldest episode out of "everything" before you watch the oldest episode from a different series that may happen to be newer. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with doing it that way, I just don't get it. I watch what I'm in the mood for no matter how old it is. All I care is that I watch the oldest episode of a given series before newer episode and I can still do that.


I actually understand his desire. There is a reason and is also the reason that I miss the "HD Recordings" group.



DoubleDAZ said:


> I must admit though that I also don't understand why a group would move up in the list based on a new recording. It seems to me that date sequence would dictate that the group with the oldest recording should be at the bottom. After all, those recordings are the first deleted when space is needed, are they not?


Yes, but then it would look weird since the order would have no relation to the displayed date.


----------



## Arcady

lpwcomp said:


> What you're missing is the fact that the sort is based on the *newest* recording in the group.


Thanks. I didn't think of it that way.

I have never looked at my list of shows and thought to myself "I must watch the oldest thing!" I usually just look at the list and pick a show I want to actually watch.


----------



## ajwees41

JWhites said:


> Using the new app on a Premiere that hasn't gotten the 20.4.6 update will simply act like it did before the app was updated with it showing Season Pass settings.
> 
> Currently the only models updated for 20.4.6 are Roamios and Mini's on the priority update list. Premieres that are on the priority update list should be getting the update starting sometime this week. The premium content download and hopefully H.264 operability should be out sometime between now and March, fingers crossed.
> 
> Here is the webpage and FAQ about this stuff. http://www.tivo.com/onepass


The premiere can already do H.264 just not Amazon prime and onepass which has been postponed via a post by Tivo Margret.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Arcady

nooneuknow said:


> Some people just want to use such a view, sorted by date actually recorded, and start from the oldest, and move forward from there. This especially makes sense when hard drive space is near capacity, and this is the EXACT ORDER that TiVo will AUTOMATICALLY delete programs to make room for the newest recordings.


I still don't get it. If your TiVo has 300 recordings on it, and you watch 5 of them, now you have 295 recordings. The next 5 shows can record without causing anything more to delete. It doesn't matter how new or old the 5 shows were, only that they got deleted and opened up room.

So you can keep the TiVo full, as long as you watch at least as many shows each day as you have scheduled for the next day. If you watch less per day than you record, you will run out of room or shows will be deleted.

If you only watch the oldest recordings, but don't watch as many shows as you have set to record, you are still going to lose shows. They will just be the _next oldest shows_.

There are three ways to fix this. Transfer to another box (TiVo or PC), get a bigger hard drive, or record less stuff.


----------



## L David Matheny

Arcady said:


> Thanks. I didn't think of it that way.
> 
> I have never looked at my list of shows and thought to myself "I must watch the oldest thing!" I usually just look at the list and pick a show I want to actually watch.


Different strokes for different folks. As the high-end DVR solution, TiVo should aspire to accommodate all (or at least most of) our viewing habits.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Arcady

nooneuknow said:


> I'd rather let the thread go on, and see how many others bring the same things up, which I have already expressed my POV on, and see how similar they are (or aren't).


Except that's not what you just did. I said what I thought, and you piled all over me for it.


----------



## HarperVision

nooneuknow said:


> What I see as a repeat complaint/critique, that many read the wrong way (or seem to, from what I can tell) is two fold: 1. You can't just turn off all the grouping (anymore), and get a list of nothing but individual recordings, with no folders (grouping) whatsoever, which is yet another function that TiVo has had for over 8 years, probably longer, now gone. 2. Some people just want to use such a view, sorted by date actually recorded, and start from the oldest, and move forward from there. This especially makes sense when hard drive space is near capacity, and this is the EXACT ORDER that TiVo will AUTOMATICALLY delete programs to make room for the newest recordings. Not everybody bought the TiVo with the largest drive, self-upgraded, or bought some 8TB FrankenTiVo from WK. Some might only have 320GB or 500GB total drive size, and on TCF most everybody seems to think everybody should be recording EVERYTHING in HD if available in HD, which doesn't really store that much programming at all. Even with 3TB drives, I had my (second SP) low-priority repeats set to SD, to not have to set a limit on how many to keep, based on presets that don't keep enough for me (too constrictive, and no way to just set a number of my choice). There are a lot of "little things" that can add up (old and new way), frustration-wise, as well, when it comes to preset pick lists for things, like: I can set a program to record 1, 1-1/2, or 3 hours longer, but not 2 hours? I could compile a list of these "little things", some of which OnePass exacerbated (made worse). But, I think I'll just stick with trying to help a few folk understand that some want to ungroup everything (no folders), and sort their recordings (no streaming stuff in the view), by date recorded, and watch the first show in line to get deleted, first. Keep Until I Delete (KUID) is an option that should be used SPARINGLY, if anybody feels they need to use it. Overuse can cause all sorts of strange and unusual operational issues. If way-overused, I've found (as have many others) that it can cause some sort of corruption, that only a Clear & Delete Everything will fully resolve, as not even clearing KUID from all recordings fixes whatever it corrupts, unless you are just so lucky, that it does. This is meant as a helpful post, not a criticize TiVo and/or TCF member(s) post.


Before I post what I'm posting next, I want to caveat this with...."I agree with the above" ( OMG, did I just say that?!  )

Next, I'm going to post this one more time. I think I posted it in another thread and got no response, so either I am now on his ignore list, or he just chose to ignore the posts after seeing them, but............

Why are you not using something like WMC so you can customize it all to "nooneuknow's" specs??? Forgive me, but you seem the perfect candidate for it, as am I (were I single of course).

***If he doesn't reply, please someone quote this so he sees it, thanks!


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## moonscape

Arcady said:


> I still don't get it. If your TiVo has 300 recordings on it, and you watch 5 of them, now you have 295 recordings. The next 5 shows can record without causing anything more to delete. It doesn't matter how new or old the 5 shows were, only that they got deleted and opened up room.


Not being able to sort by record date bothers me because I used that often. I don't watch shows in reverse order, but when my drive was getting full, I'd ungroup and look at my oldest recordings to make sure there's nothing I'd be devastated to lose, and then be motivated to watch those asap.

The issue will become more important in time as I increasingly lose touch with what are indeed my oldest recordings - the longer away I get from having been able to see that view. I'm hoping ungrouping will still be possible with kmttg, though would far prefer it at the box.


----------



## Arcady

Oh I get what you guys are doing. I just don't run my equipment the same way. If I have a 2TB drive in my computer, I don't fill it more than halfway. When the TiVo is at 60% full, I start to get worried. There's always at least 12 gigs free on my 32gb phone. I always want lots of extra room on my devices just in case.

My wife, on the other hand, has to delete or offload stuff from her devices all the time, because they are always almost full. I don't know how she can stand it, but I just keep buying more backup drives...


----------



## Dan203

I use to do this back in the old days when my TiVos only held 15-30 hours of programming, but when they got to the point where they could hold hundreds, or even thousands, of hours of shows ungrouping them became unwieldy. I suspect that most people left groups on all the time which is why TiVo decide it was OK to remove the option to accommodate the new way OnePass is tied to My Shows.


----------



## 59er

Isn't there a Going Away Soon category in the now playing list? It doesn't necessarily list the oldest shows, but it does provide a way to view the most endangered shows in the NPL.


----------



## aaronwt

L David Matheny said:


> Different strokes for different folks. As the high-end DVR solution, TiVo should aspire to accommodate all (or at least most of) our viewing habits.


Isn't that what they've done?


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> I use to do this back in the old days when my TiVos only held 15-30 hours of programming, but when they got to the point where they could hold hundreds, or even thousands, of hours of shows ungrouping them became unwieldy. I suspect that most people left groups on all the time which is why TiVo decide it was OK to remove the option to accommodate the new way OnePass is tied to My Shows.


Yes I could not imagine not using groups with these large hard drives. It's already kind of a pain with so many groups. To have everything listed with no groups would seem impossible to manage. I know I certainly would not want to try and mess with 500 shows that aren't in any groups.


----------



## RoyK

aaronwt said:


> Yes I could not imagine not using groups with these large hard drives. It's already kind of a pain with so many groups. To have everything listed with no groups would seem impossible to manage. I know I certainly would not want to try and mess with 500 shows that aren't in any groups.


While groups are my choice I have no difficulty believing others differ. My late wife was one of them.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

Arcady said:


> The oldest folder would have the oldest recording in it. What's the problem? Go to the bottom of the My Shows list and there is your oldest recording.
> 
> I'm not sure what I'm missing here.


But that's not what happens. At the moment I have 4 folders:

12 Monkeys with 3 recordings; 1/16, 1/23, 1/30. Folder date is 1/30.
The Americans with a recording from 1/28 and streaming links from 1/30/2013-5/21/2014. Displayed folder date is 1/30.
The Simpsons with 30 recordings from 2/2-2/4. Folder date is 2/4.
Strange Inheritance with 3 recordings; 2/2, 2/2, 2/3. Folder date is 2/3.

They are currently sorted as follows (oldest episode in parens):
The Simpsons (2/2)
Strange Inheritance (2/2)
12 Monkeys (1/16)
The Americans (1/28)

If they sorted by date of the oldest episodes in the folders, they would be:

The Simpsons (2/2)
Strange Inheritance (2/2)
The Americans (1/28)
12 Monkeys (1/16)

If they sorted by date for the folder, they would be (folder date in parens):

The Simpsons (2/4)
Strange Inheritance (2/3)
12 Monkeys (1/30)
The Americans (1/30)

As you can see, they appear to be sorted based on the date assigned to the folder and that gets updated when a new recording is added. The poster who complained, would like them sorted like the second example, so that he knows which folder has the oldest recording overall.


----------



## elwaylite

lpwcomp said:


> What you're missing is the fact that the sort is based on the *newest* recording in the group.


Exactly. Id have no issue with folders if the ordering was based off the oldest recording in the folder. Directv did the same thing.. Folders, even with oldest first set, are ordered by the most recent episode. Episodes of just about every series are meant to be watched in order, so why would the emphasis on sorting be for the newest episodes. If I am 6 weeks behind on Sleepy Hollow, why do I want folders sorted by episode 6 instead of episode 1?

It is hard for me to understand people that watch series out of order, but to each their own. The big issue is why did Directv and TiVo jack up something so simple.

If Blacklist was recorded on Monday, NCIS on Tues and Flash on Thursday, that is the order I want to watch them. Not Flash, Blacklist and then NCIS.


----------



## lessd

HarperVision said:


> I'm thinking the 20.4.6 release got rid of the 4 hour timeout period on the mini. Can someone else test and confirm?
> 
> Reason I'm saying is that yesterday I turned on my mini attached to my Slingbox to watch the SB pregame show on my iPad while I was getting ready to go party. This Slingbox is attached to my bedroom TV, but I can confirm that it hasn't been used since then and the soonest it could've been used would've been no later than 7:30am this morning when my wife left for work (but I was there too and she didn't use the TV and never usually does anyway) and it's now 11:56am here and I just logged onto my slingbox again and it is still on live TV.


The 4 hour time out is still on the Mini with 20.4.6, I tested it from last night to this morning, they could have moved the time out to 6 hours, that when I checked.


----------



## aaronwt

elwaylite said:


> Exactly. Id have no issue with folders if the ordering was based off the oldest recording in the folder. Directv did the same thing.. Folders, even with oldest first set, are ordered by the most recent episode. Episodes of just about every series are meant to be watched in order, so why would the emphasis on sorting be for the newest episodes. If I am 6 weeks behind on Sleepy Hollow, why do I want folders sorted by episode 6 instead of episode 1?
> 
> It is hard for me to understand people that watch series out of order, but to each their own. The big issue is why did Directv and TiVo jack up something so simple.
> 
> If Blacklist was recorded on Monday, NCIS on Tues and Flash on Thursday, that is the order I want to watch them. Not Flash, Blacklist and then NCIS.


Really? You actually watch each show based on what day they were broadcast? That seems surprising in this day and age.

I watch the shows based on what I'm in the mood to watch. I watched the Flash last night. I haven't watched Gotham yet even though it aired Monday. I watched the Blacklist on Sunday night. But it really depends on how much time I have and what I am in the mood to watch. Not what day the show airs.

Even decades ago I only watched the tape of the show based on what I felt like watching. Not based on the day it aired. And with a DVR things are just easier. I watch Tv on my own time, not based on what some network executive wants.


----------



## JoeKustra

lessd said:


> The 4 hour time out is still on the Mini with 20.4.6, I tested it from last night to this morning, they could have moved the time out to 6 hours, that when I checked.


Have you been subjected to an EMS alert? They enable my Mini and the assigned tuner sometimes shows "unknown box", not the Roamio name. It does release, but it takes the normal four hours.


----------



## RoyK

aaronwt said:


> Really? You actually watch each show based on what day they were broadcast? That seems surprising in this day and age.
> 
> I watch the shows based on what I'm in the mood to watch. I watched the Flash last night. I haven't watched Gotham yet even though it aired Monday. I watched the Blacklist on Sunday night. But it really depends on how much time I have and what I am in the mood to watch. Not what day the show airs.
> 
> Even decades ago I only watched the tape of the show based on what I felt like watching. Not based on the day it aired. And with a DVR things are just easier. I watch Tv on my own time, not based on what some network executive wants.


So?


----------



## aaronwt

RoyK said:


> So?


The point is that it seems unusual to watch different shows only in the order they aired. I don't think I even know anyone that does that except someone that watches content live. Even my parents around eighty years old don't watch different shows in the order they were broadcast. That seems like an archaic way of watching tv.


----------



## trip1eX

I got the update.

I had about 5 dual season passes. So those are gone. 

I'll live of course because we're talking tv. But definitely have to modify how I record stuff and keep on top of some shows so I can delete stuff if too many repeats are recorded and threaten to overwrite new shows. 

I confirmed that the OnePass feature is basically useless to an adult if you have young kids who watch cartoons on Netflix. You can't play House of Cards if your kid last used Netflix without going into the app and switching profiles which defeats the whole purpose of OnePass.


btw, off the top of my head, it would be nice if there was a Keep At Most (KAM) setting between 10 and 25 to help with the lack of dual season passes. 10 is too low to account for the amount of repeats some shows have in a week. 10 means the new episode is probably going to be erased. 25 is too high a number of episodes to keep for very many shows. 

Of course all the shows I had dual season passes for are network shows that aren't on Netflix or Amazon Prime.  I'd have to get HuluPlus which may or may not really help. But at some point paying for cable and a lot of streaming services gets ridiculous. I'm already at the point where I'm close to getting rid of Netflix 11 months of the year. ...That would solve the "profile" bug tho. 


I'm not sure how this will affect my recording of sports. But I definitely have done some things in the past where I had dual season passes for sports on different channels. Currently it isn't a problem for me that I can see. 

I'm kind of bugged by the wifi icon next to every streaming show in My Shows. They need to create a new icon to represent streaming that isn't a wifi icon. 


Power savings? I'll wait for the guinea pigs to use this for months before I try it. The savings seems very minimal from what I'm reading. 

Overall this update just doesn't do anything for me.


----------



## TonyBlunt

nooneuknow said:


> Keep Until I Delete (KUID) is an option that should be used SPARINGLY, if anybody feels they need to use it. Overuse can cause all sorts of strange and unusual operational issues. If way-overused, I've found (as have many others) that it can cause some sort of corruption, that only a Clear & Delete Everything will fully resolve, as not even clearing KUID from all recordings fixes whatever it corrupts, unless you are just so lucky, that it does.


I have had the opposite, losing recordings that were not KUID even though I had plenty of space. ALL my recordings are KUID, it is the only logical way to go. If there was a bug it must have been fixed.


----------



## lessd

JoeKustra said:


> Have you been subjected to an EMS alert? They enable my Mini and the assigned tuner sometimes shows "unknown box", not the Roamio name. It does release, but it takes the normal four hours.


Never had a EMS alert recorded, if I watching a recording and the EMS alert comes on I get taken out of the recording until the alert is done, then I have to pick up the recording where I left off. Oh and up to now I never used the standby mode.


----------



## JoeKustra

lessd said:


> Never had a EMS alert recorded, if I watching a recording and the EMS alert comes on I get taken out of the recording until the alert is done, then I have to pick up the recording where I left off. Oh and up to now I never used the standby mode.


Sorry, I thought you were speaking to the Mini timeouts, not recordings.


----------



## lessd

JoeKustra said:


> Sorry, I thought you were speaking to the Mini timeouts, not recordings.


I was talking about the Mini timeouts, you brought up the EMS


----------



## RoyK

aaronwt said:


> The point is that it seems unusual to watch different shows only in the order they aired. I don't think I even know anyone that does that except someone that watches content live. Even my parents around eighty years old don't watch different shows in the order they were broadcast. That seems like an archaic way of watching tv.


Not having taken a survey I can't say whether it is usual or not. I'd guess it probably is not. However posts here make it evident that some users prefer that way of watching. Now it has suddenly been made much more difficult for them. Arguing that "this is the way I do it and doing it any other way makes no sense" merely points out an inability to accept that people think in different ways.


----------



## JWhites

JoeKustra said:


> Have you been subjected to an EMS alert? They enable my Mini and the assigned tuner sometimes shows "unknown box", not the Roamio name. It does release, but it takes the normal four hours.


If you are referring to an *E*mergency *A*lert *S*ystem message, when the host DVR receives one as required by the FCC rules and CableLabs compliance, it is also passed to the child unit (Mini) since the Mini is acting as a set top box in the room it's located in. This is supposed to override any "sleep mode".


----------



## JoeKustra

JWhites said:


> If you are referring to an *E*mergency *A*lert *S*ystem message, when the host DVR receives one as required by the FCC rules and CableLabs compliance, it is also passed to the child unit (Mini) since the Mini is acting as a set top box in the room it's located in. This is supposed to override any "sleep mode".


You're right. I meant EAS. Been too much snow. Brain getting smaller.


----------



## L David Matheny

L David Matheny said:


> Different strokes for different folks. As the high-end DVR solution, TiVo should aspire to accommodate all (or at least most of) our viewing habits.





aaronwt said:


> Isn't that what they've done?


I don't have 20.4.6 yet (thankfully), but from what I've read here I got the impression that groups have been forced "on" all the time. I currently turn them on if I'm seriously behind in my viewing and trying to catch up on a particular series or two, but most of the time I leave them off so that I can watch in broadcast sequence the many news shows I record. Your viewing habits may differ. As someone mentioned, it probably would help if we could specify that the groups should be sorted by oldest recording rather than latest.


----------



## Bierboy

Dan203 said:


> Premiere units on the Priority list I think will start getting it tomorrow.


Negative. I'm on the priority list and still haven't received it...

EDIT: Just caught up to where Margret said it would be delayed with Premieres...


----------



## Bytez

Any improvements in streaming with this?


----------



## bradleys

Bytez said:


> Any improvements in streaming with this?


Streaming to the IOS app? from my perspective in home streaming is really very good. I haven't had a chance to test the away from home streaming since the update - so I cannot comment.

I did do a download and it is still dog slow! I am sure that is a function of the trans-coding, but dang, it would be nice to make it a little faster!


----------



## rainwater

I appreciate all the comments on the new features...

But the issues for me are more basic. Things like sorting are broken when setting up OnePasses. Also, losing the latest record date when adding streaming options keeps me from even using the feature (I'm not losing my sort order just to add old episodes from Netflix). 

I guess we can all argue about the features, but the basic usability is broken in this release. I do wonder why TiVo rushed this out and didn't even get the basic things done correctly.


----------



## waynomo

Is there a thread for keeping track of bugs introduced with 20.4.6? There seem to be a bunch of small ones.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## The Merg

kbmb said:


> I'm seeing the same. Guessing if no recorded show is in the folder, then it goes to the top?
> 
> -Kevin


No. It sees the date that you added Streaming Episodes to the folder and that becomes the date it uses. It's similar to how it picks the date for Streaming Movies that are added to My Shows.

- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HazelW

I have always had groups on, and they always sorted by newest recording in the group. I don't know why this is all of a sudden an issue--it has always been that way.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

HazelW said:


> I have always had groups on, and they always sorted by newest recording in the group. I don't know why this is all of a sudden an issue--it has always been that way.


I was wondering if that was the case.  But, with Groups Off, one could sort by date and see the oldest recording, they can do long do that.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## L David Matheny

HazelW said:


> I have always had groups on, and they always sorted by newest recording in the group. I don't know why this is all of a sudden an issue--it has always been that way.


I believe that has always been the case, _when groups are turned on_. But if TiVo takes away the option of turning groups off (which leaves all recordings in one list sorted by date), it would be helpful to have one of the colored buttons cycle through a setting that sorts the groups by oldest recording instead of newest.

EDIT: After thinking about it, I've decided that sorting the groups by oldest content would not be helpful in most cases. We still need an ungrouped listing in date order as one of the options.


----------



## HarperVision

lessd said:


> The 4 hour time out is still on the Mini with 20.4.6, I tested it from last night to this morning, they could have moved the time out to 6 hours, that when I checked.


Yeah, it has since timed out on me as well in subsequent testing. I'm sure Dan was correct that there was something like an EAS msg that kicked it on last time.


----------



## moyekj

rainwater said:


> I appreciate all the comments on the new features...
> 
> But the issues for me are more basic. Things like sorting are broken when setting up OnePasses. Also, losing the latest record date when adding streaming options keeps me from even using the feature (I'm not losing my sort order just to add old episodes from Netflix).
> 
> I guess we can all argue about the features, but the basic usability is broken in this release. I do wonder why TiVo rushed this out and didn't even get the basic things done correctly.


 Totally agree. I will not add streaming option to any 1P if this bug persists, and anything that breaks sorting in MyShows is a huge negative. It's ridiculous that you can't even turn off grouping in MyShows anymore as well. The price we are paying in broken functionality is far exceeding any value that adding streaming options may bring IMO. TiVo got rid of functionality when transitioning wishlists from SDUI to HDUI that still have not been recovered and probably never will, so I'm not hopeful any of these new issues will get resolved either unfortunately. That left a bad taste in my mind that makes me cringe whenever any additional screens are migrated to HDUI or changed in any way.


----------



## HarperVision

nooneuknow said:


> One truly intriguing thing I see about this update: Members whom I rarely, to never, agree with (or they never seem to agree with me) seem to have found something to agree about... Strange days... It's like as if a "civil war" is about to break out in TiVo country...


Hey, I represent that remark!


----------



## TiVoMargret

The Merg said:


> It sees the date that you added Streaming Episodes to the folder and that becomes the date it uses. It's similar to how it picks the date for Streaming Movies that are added to My Shows.


This is by design. A folder "pops to the top" any time new content is available to you (either recorded or streaming). This means when Netflix releases the next season of 'House of Cards' your OnePass folder for it will appear at the top of a date-sorted My Shows.


----------



## RoyK

TiVoMargret said:


> This is by design. A folder "pops to the top" any time new content is available to you (either recorded or streaming). This means when Netflix releases the next season of 'House of Cards' your OnePass folder for it will appear at the top of a date-sorted My Shows.


So an episode of 'House of Cards' that recorded last year is deemed newer than an episode of 'NCIS' that first aired last night simply because Netflix chose to add it this morning? Brilliant!

Edit 
My bad. I'd forgotten HOC is not a broadcast program. However it is my understanding that sorting works this way for any episode newly added to a streaming source.


----------



## lessd

TiVoMargret said:


> This is by design. A folder "pops to the top" any time new content is available to you (either recorded or streaming). This means when Netflix releases the next season of 'House of Cards' your OnePass folder for it will appear at the top of a date-sorted My Shows.


'House of Cards' is different as that is only on Netflix, I would guess that the complaint is about programs that are on both a TV channel and on a streaming source.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DoubleDAZ

L David Matheny said:


> I don't have 20.4.6 yet (thankfully), but from what I've read here I got the impression that groups have been forced "on" all the time. I currently turn them on if I'm seriously behind in my viewing and trying to catch up on a particular series or two, but most of the time I leave them off so that I can watch in broadcast sequence the many news shows I record. Your viewing habits may differ. As someone mentioned, it probably would help if we could specify that the groups should be sorted by oldest recording rather than latest.


Now that's the first reason for sorting by date that I can understand the rationale behind. It's kind of like turning ESPN on and seeing the results of a game before you were able to watch the recording.  I'd suggest that you might be able to get something similar using a Wish List for "news" and some other keywords to put those shows in the same group.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> Also, losing the latest record date when adding streaming options keeps me from even using the feature (I'm not losing my sort order just to add old episodes from Netflix).


I'm not following. I set up a 1P as a test for The Simpsons on 2/2 and the group now shows 2/4, the date of the latest recording, just like I believe it did before the update. It's true that if you have a group and you change it to "recordings and streaming", it will change the date to the current date. But, that will get reset when the next new episode gets recorded.


----------



## moyekj

nooneuknow said:


> As the author of KMTTG, which has been my preferred method for managing my personal TiVos, and almost all scheduling, can you tell me what will happen if I attempt to copy an old-style SP list backup onto a OnePass'd box, under two conditions?:


See discussion starting here in kmttg thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10390558#post10390558
Apparently as things stand right now any 1P created using kmttg will be like a traditional SP with anything "streaming" related stripped out. Thus, for example if you have turned on streaming options in a 1P and then you backup and restore via kmttg it will lose any of the streaming related options and revert back to a "recordings only" type 1P/SP.

There is likely a new RPC command that contains the additional 1P options in it, but I won't know until I get the now dreaded 20.4.6 software update to see if there's a way to reverse engineer it.

NOTE: This information is based on testing by others as I don't have the new software update yet and have (intentionally) not signed up for priority list to get it.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> So an episode of 'House of Cards' that recorded last year is deemed newer than an episode of 'NCIS' that first aired last night simply because Netflix chose to add it this morning? Brilliant!
> 
> Edit
> My bad. I'd forgotten HOC is not a broadcast program. However it is my understanding that sorting works this way for any episode newly added to a streaming source.


Yes, but that date only lasts until the next recording of NCIS is added to the group. It's simply going to look strange for awhile if you add streaming to your 1PS. It's not added by default, so nothing changes unless you modify your 1P. If you add steaming to NCIS today, it will show 2/4 until next Tuesday when it records the next episode, then it will show 2/10 and it will be just like it was before 1P. The date problem is only temporary until the next new recording is added to any group.


----------



## SugarBowl

moyekj said:


> See discussion starting here in kmttg thread:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10390558#post10390558
> Apparently as things stand right now any 1P created using kmttg will be like a traditional SP with anything "streaming" related stripped out. Thus, for example if you have turned on streaming options in a 1P and then you backup and restore via kmttg it will lose any of the streaming related options and revert back to a "recordings only" type 1P/SP.
> 
> There is likely a new RPC command that contains the additional 1P options in it, but I won't know until I get the now dreaded 20.4.6 software update to see if there's a way to reverse engineer it.
> 
> NOTE: This information is based on testing by others as I don't have the new software update yet and have (intentionally) not signed up for priority list to get it.


will kmttg be able to transfer a copy-protected show now, and delete it from the tivo ?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

lessd said:


> 'House of Cards' is different as that is only on Netflix, I would guess that the complaint is about programs that are on both a TV channel and on a streaming source.


I set a "new only" 1P for HOC on 1/29 and it doesn't even show in the My Shows list yet. When it does, it will have a date for when the new season is added to Netflix and it will go to the top of the My Shows list to let me know the new season is available.

When I set a "recordings and streaming" 1P for The Simpsons on 2/1, it showed in My Shows as 2/1 and all that was in there was streaming links. When a new episode recorded on 2/2, the date changed to 2/2, again on 2/3 and now says 2/4. I assume if a new episode gets added to Netflix, the date will get updated until a new recording is added.


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> Yes, but that date only lasts until the next recording of NCIS is added to the group. It's simply going to look strange for awhile if you add streaming to your 1PS. It's not added by default, so nothing changes unless you modify your 1P. If you add steaming to NCIS today, it will show 2/4 until next Tuesday when it records the next episode, then it will show 2/10 and it will be just like it was before 1P. The date problem is only temporary until the next new recording is added to any group.


I see. It doesn't matter if the sort makes no sense because it will straighten itself out sooner or later until Netflix mucks it up again by adding or deleting something. Got ya.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> I see. It doesn't matter if the sort makes no sense because it will straighten itself out sooner or later until Netflix mucks it up again by adding or deleting something. Got ya.


That's ONLY if you have your 1P set to "recordings and streaming". If you don't, what Netflix does doesn't affect it.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> That's ONLY if you have your 1P set to "recordings and streaming". If you don't, what Netflix does doesn't affect it.


As I said sort order makes no sense with 1P because the order is based on apples in the case of recordings and oranges in the case of streaming.


----------



## Dan203

SugarBowl said:


> will kmttg be able to transfer a copy-protected show now, and delete it from the tivo ?


No. TiVo has not exposed the premium side loading capabilities to TiVoToGo. Probably because TTG is completely insecure and can easily be stripped of it's encryption. CableLabs would never approve it as an acceptable scheme.

The only way we're going to see premium side loading on a PC is if they completely change how TTG works. Which personally I hope they don't because it would likely break VideoReDo, kmttg, and many other useful utilities we love.


----------



## aaronwt

TiVoMargret said:


> This is by design. A folder "pops to the top" any time new content is available to you (either recorded or streaming). This means when Netflix releases the next season of 'House of Cards' your OnePass folder for it will appear at the top of a date-sorted My Shows.


Which sounds great. This sounds like the way it has always worked with recorded shows.


----------



## joewom

TiVoMargret said:


> Premiere boxes won't start updating until next week. (There is more coordination/timing needed with the transition to the new Amazon app.)


I wonder if this is on track. Its been awful silent and its middle of the week and nothing yet.


----------



## L David Matheny

DoubleDAZ said:


> Now that's the first reason for sorting by date that I can understand the rationale behind. It's kind of like turning ESPN on and seeing the results of a game before you were able to watch the recording.  I'd suggest that you might be able to get something similar using a Wish List for "news" and some other keywords to put those shows in the same group.


I probably watch too many news shows, but it is better to watch them in order. I said earlier that maybe one of the colored buttons could allow sorting the groups by oldest recording instead of newest, but (after thinking about it) I've decided that wouldn't really be helpful. It would still be necessary to manually search through some groups to try to watch things in order. There's really no substitute for having an ungrouped listing in date order as one of the options. That way you can start at the time when you last caught up on date-sensitive programs and work your way forward from there, which is what I do now.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## NorthAlabama

TiVoMargret said:


> Premiere boxes won't start updating until next week. (There is more coordination/timing needed with the transition to the new Amazon app.)




joewom said:


> I wonder if this is on track. Its been awful silent and its middle of the week and nothing yet.


you missed her update, not difficult to do at the rate this thread is growing: 


TiVoMargret said:


> There will be a delay in moving TiVo Premiere households to 20.4.6. I will post an update when I have more information.


----------



## joewom

nooneuknow said:


> For those who missed it, and keep missing every mention I make for those who missed it:


Sorry I do have other things to do then check every sec and then when I am able to check I usually don't have time to go thru every single post when there are so many pages. What happens when questions get lost in a huge post. Sorry it seemed to frustrate you. But thanks for the info.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## joewom

NorthAlabama said:


> you missed her update, not difficult to do at the rate this thread is growing:
> ​


Exactly thanks.


----------



## skid71

joewom said:


> Sorry I do have other things to do then check every sec and then when I am able to check I usually don't have time to go thru every single post when there are so many pages. What happens when questions get lost in a huge post. Sorry it seemed to frustrate you. But thanks for the info.


There are very few worth reading anyway. 
Much like this one.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Dan203

Weird. Have you forced a call? Does that succeed? You haven't done anything with your network to prevent the update have you?


----------



## NorthAlabama

nooneuknow said:


> Anybody else, not yet updated, locked-out of all scheduling operations?


have you tried the bsc workaround (clear gd&tdl)?


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## L David Matheny

nooneuknow said:


> Anybody else, not yet updated, locked-out of all scheduling operations?
> 
> Two days now, no means will allow me to schedule anything, or even just record what is on right now.
> 
> Endless spinning blue circle that can only be cleared by using KMTTG to launch Netflix, or by power-pull reboot.
> 
> I've tried the usual voodoo, reboots, pulling the network cable, but my goose is cooked on three base Roamios, should I want to add/change anything from what existed three days ago.
> 
> *ETA:* If I hammer too hard with the remote or via KMTTG, the TiVo quits responding to the remote (no amber acknowledgement light, and the ONLY KMTTG function that doesn't bounce is to launch Netflix).


It sounds like the code must be chasing its tail trying to do something that just isn't working. Have you tried disconnecting the coaxial cable? I hope you've reported this to TiVo. It's obviously a major malfunction.


----------



## NorthAlabama

nooneuknow said:


> You might recall that I am intimately familiar with that workaround, right? It has been temporary, and did work, but never for long, and not attempted in a time where who knows what is going on with the backend of things...


the failure to mention it as being tried is why i asked, is there anything specific that leads you to believe using this menu option would brick the tivo?


----------



## ohboy710

moonscape said:


> I'm unhappy about losing the C option to ungroup in My Shows. I have a lot of wish lists, and when I want to find a particular movie or see what was recorded long ago, I would disable groups and sort by name or date to find. Now I can't see what my oldest recordings are - or search for a particular movie by name.
> 
> Dang!


I don't have the update yet but I'm very unhappy that everybody keeps saying you can't "ungroup" your shows. I hate the groupings and always have them turned off.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> That's ONLY if you have your 1P set to "recordings and streaming". If you don't, what Netflix does doesn't affect it.


As I said sort order makes no sense with 1P because the order is based on apples in the case of recordings and oranges in the case of streaming.


----------



## Dan203

Yeah sorting the list by date doesn't really work with streaming. Since the "date" they use is the date the show was added to the service, not the air date. 

Honestly I also use date sorting a lot to see what's been recorded most recently, so I don't miss my favorite shows in the sea of other crap I record. This will come in hand for that since it will move the folders for things like House Of Cards and Orange Is The New Black to the top of the list when they add new episodes. But for shows that are both recorded and streaming it could be a PITA when they add an old season to the streaming service.


----------



## aaronwt

L David Matheny said:


> I probably watch too many news shows, but it is better to watch them in order. I said earlier that maybe one of the colored buttons could allow sorting the groups by oldest recording instead of newest, but (after thinking about it) I've decided that wouldn't really be helpful. It would still be necessary to manually search through some groups to try to watch things in order. There's really no substitute for having an ungrouped listing in date order as one of the options. That way you can start at the time when you last caught up on date-sensitive programs and work your way forward from there, which is what I do now.


I record around thirty five news programs each day. With the current sorting by date, I have no problem seeing which program is recorded later or earlier. Since it puts them in order with the newest recording on top of the list when sorted by date.

But for me I see no difference now than I had before the recent update. Since I have uses groups to sort since they were available. I have too many programs in the "My Shows" list not to use grouping. The list is already unwieldy with the number of groups I have. Without grouping it would truly be a royal PITA for me since shows would be all over the place.


----------



## Arcady

aaronwt said:


> I record around thirty five news programs each day.


Sorry, but why? Even if they are all 30 minute programs, you would need to watch TV for 18 hours to see them all.

I recorded a news program last night at 9pm. By the time I got around to watching it at midnight, everything they were speculating about had already changed, and it was all wrong. I knew this because I had looked at a news website around 11pm.

News is called news because it is new.

(Yeah I know, go ahead and attack me because I don't use my TiVo the same crazy way you do. Yes, crazy. 35 news shows a day? WTF.)


----------



## aaronwt

Arcady said:


> Sorry, but why? Even if they are all 30 minute programs, you would need to watch TV for 18 hours to see them all.
> 
> I recorded a news program last night at 9pm. By the time I got around to watching it at midnight, everything they were speculating about had already changed, and it was all wrong. I knew this because I had looked at a news website around 11pm.
> 
> News is called news because it is new.
> 
> (Yeah I know, go ahead and attack me because I don't use my TiVo the same crazy way you do. Yes, crazy. 35 news shows a day? WTF.)


 Why would I attack you? Are you confusing me with someone else?

I only watch a fraction of what I record. Even in the era of VCRs I never watched everything I recorded. When I sit down to watch TV I want a wide variety of content to choose from.

I have Season One Passes for a bunch of news programs. Some of them come on many times during the course of a day. So they get recorded. I have them set to only keep a few of the most recent episodes. I might watch it once a day, twice a day, three times a day, or go several days without watching them at all. With a DVR it is so much easier than how it was done in the 20th century. Since all the recordings are digital and they can easily be deleted. And one of the best things about the TiVo is that it can take care of all of that automatically. So they get recorded and deleted without any intervention by me.


----------



## Dan203

I don't have the mentality for that. I feel obligated to watch everything I record so I try not to record things unless I know I want to watch them.


----------



## aaronwt

Dan203 said:


> I don't have the mentality for that. I feel obligated to watch everything I record so I try not to record things unless I know I want to watch them.


I would be in trouble if I tried to watch everything I record. I record over five hundred programs every two week period. Although most of those are news programs.

I've got 533 programs in my To Do list on my Roamio Pro right now. Only 25 on my OTA Roamio Basic though.


----------



## RoyK

While I don't record as many news programs as aaronwt I record quite a few so that whenever I want to see the news I have one or two that are recent.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Dan203

I have a couple of news programs I record daily with KAM set to 1. I don't always watch them, but if I do I only care about the most recent episode. But those are mainly political "news" shows, not actual news. I get actual news from the internet.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## rainwater

TiVoMargret said:


> This is by design. A folder "pops to the top" any time new content is available to you (either recorded or streaming). This means when Netflix releases the next season of 'House of Cards' your OnePass folder for it will appear at the top of a date-sorted My Shows.


Unfortunately, it "pops to the top" just by setting an existing OnePass to include streaming. So the current date when adding streaming is used for the latest record date. This means every single existing season pass I had would lose the sort order just by enabling this new feature. If this is by design, I don't understand why anyone would ever enable streaming that already uses sort by date. It seems you are forcing us to binge watch and not watch recordings in the order they were recorded. At the very least don't "pop" items to the top when nothing has changed. I prefer not to lose the sort order of years of season passes I have set up.


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> It's true that if you have a group and you change it to "recordings and streaming", it will change the date to the current date. But, that will get reset when the next new episode gets recorded.


So you are saying I have to lose my sort order until a new episode records? In what world does this make sense? It is either a bug or terrible design. To me it matters very little which it is because either way I can't enable streaming because of the way it currently works.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> So you are saying I have to lose my sort order until a new episode records? In what world does this make sense? It is either a bug or terrible design. To me it matters very little which it is because either way I can't enable streaming because of the way it currently works.


I'd tend to agree, but like I said, it'll straighten out eventually. There isn't another way to do it for those who want to know where streaming episodes are added to a service. If you add streaming to your 1P, and you don't have to, it's going to change the date for the group whenever one of your services adds new episodes. If you add streaming, it is assumed you'd want to know when new services are added. If you don't, then don't add streaming and keep checking your favorites in the applicable service app. the 1P only takes you to the add anyway and you still have to navigate that. For those of us who want to know when new streaming episode are available, 1P works great. For example, I just started recording The Americans, but I want to watch the old episodes first. 1P lets me see them all, but I don't know yet if it keeps track as I watch them. I use it more for original programs, like HOC, where there are no broadcast episodes. I no longer have to check the service, the 1P will let me know when new episodes are available.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> So you are saying I have to lose my sort order until a new episode records? In what world does this make sense? It is either a bug or terrible design. To me it matters very little which it is because either way I can't enable streaming because of the way it currently works.


I'm not sure what difference it makes if group C goes to the top until a new recording is added. I get that it's different, but if Group A has 3 recordings, Group B has 10 and Group C has 5, how do you decide which group to watch now? They're in a sequence based on the one with the "newest" recording in it? So would you watch something in Group C when Group B might contain the oldest recording? Not criticizing, just don't understand. 

BTW, you can probably add streaming to the bottom group and it will rise to the top, then add it to the next group and it will go to the top and so on until it's been added to all groups and my guess is they'll effectively be in the same sequence they are now, they'll just all show the same date until one of them gets a new recording.


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> I'm not sure what difference it makes if group C goes to the top until a new recording is added. I get that it's different, but if Group A has 3 recordings, Group B has 10 and Group C has 5, how do you decide which group to watch now? They're in a sequence based on the one with the "newest" recording in it? So would you watch something in Group C when Group B might contain the oldest recording? Not criticizing, just don't understand.
> 
> BTW, you can probably add streaming to the bottom group and it will rise to the top, then add it to the next group and it will go to the top and so on until it's been added to all groups and my guess is they'll effectively be in the same sequence they are now, they'll just all show the same date until one of them gets a new recording.


Simple. Turn off groups and sort by date. Except now you can't do the first and the second is meaningless.


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> I'm not sure what difference it makes if group C goes to the top until a new recording is added. I get that it's different, but if Group A has 3 recordings, Group B has 10 and Group C has 5, how do you decide which group to watch now? They're in a sequence based on the one with the "newest" recording in it? So would you watch something in Group C when Group B might contain the oldest recording? Not criticizing, just don't understand.


I tend to watch shows based on when they were recorded. Otherwise, I would lose recordings that get deleted based on keeping only a certain number per season pass. For instance, I may not watch any shows that are recorded this week. But I will "binge" watch my latest recordings on days that I have time. By losing the most recent recorded date, this is impossible. And before you say, "look at the watch progress", that is not a solution. For one, that is only visible by going into the folder. And two, we have multiple people in my house so it does not show my watched status.



DoubleDAZ said:


> BTW, you can probably add streaming to the bottom group and it will rise to the top, then add it to the next group and it will go to the top and so on until it's been added to all groups and my guess is they'll effectively be in the same sequence they are now, they'll just all show the same date until one of them gets a new recording.


The order is not the only important part. The date is just as important. What you suggest does not fix the problem of TiVo displaying a random date. Instead of "workarounds" shouldn't TiVo actually fix the problem to make it usable?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> I tend to watch shows based on when they were recorded. Otherwise, I would lose recordings that get deleted based on keeping only a certain number per season pass. For instance, I may not watch any shows that are recorded this week. But I will "binge" watch my latest recordings on days that I have time. By losing the most recent recorded date, this is impossible. And before you say, "look at the watch progress", that is not a solution. For one, that is only visible by going into the folder. And two, we have multiple people in my house so it does not show my watched status.
> 
> The order is not the only important part. The date is just as important. What you suggest does not fix the problem of TiVo displaying a random date. Instead of "workarounds" shouldn't TiVo actually fix the problem to make it usable?


I'm only attempting to offer an interim workaround because Tivo is not going to "fix" this for some time, if ever.

However, your complaint seems to be more about the fact that you can no longer turn groups Off. Before the release, you had to turn them off (or not use them at all) to see what the oldest recording was. Now you can no longer do that, but the date of the group didn't make a difference then and doesn't make a difference now, that was my point. If you were watching the group with the oldest date, then you were watching the series with the least newest recording, not the series with the oldest recording. I get that the distinction doesn't really matter because no matter what, you can't watch with 1P the way you were watching with SP.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

My suggestion to use a WL for New episodes and a 1P for reruns on a specific channel for The Simpsons problem didn't work very well.

1. The 2nd pass continued to display "updating" in the One Pass manager.
2. Both passes were assigned a date of the newest recording.
3. Both passes included duplicate recordings. I thought this was because of the 28-day rule, but now I believe it was simply because of the 2 passes were trying to do different things they weren't designed to do at the same time. Might explain a little why Tivo chose not to allow multiple 1Ps.
4. When I deleted to WL, the 1P date reverted to 2/1, the date I created it and based on the fact that I included streaming.
5. It fell lower in the My Shows list based on the 2/1 date.


----------



## aaronwt

DoubleDAZ said:


> I'm only attempting to offer an interim workaround because Tivo is not going to "fix" this for some time, if ever.
> 
> However, your complaint seems to be more about the fact that you can no longer turn groups Off. Before the release, you had to turn them off (or not use them at all) to see what the oldest recording was. Now you can no longer do that, but the date of the group didn't make a difference then and doesn't make a difference now, that was my point. If you were watching the group with the oldest date, then you were watching the series with the least newest recording, not the series with the oldest recording. I get that the distinction doesn't really matter because no matter what, you can't watch with 1P the way you were watching with SP.


A work around might be to use KMTTG from a PC. I just looked at my Roamio Pro list using KMTTG and I am still able to view the My Show list in KMTTG without folders. This is not a view I would normally use, but I just unchecked the option and all my shows are now being listed without folders in KMTTG.










When viewing from the Roamio Pro or a Mini all these old Futurama episodes are in a folder. Which I do prefer. But for someone that doesn't want to look at folders, at least KMTTG still provides an option to view without folders.


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> I'm only attempting to offer an interim workaround because Tivo is not going to "fix" this for some time, if ever.
> 
> However, your complaint seems to be more about the fact that you can no longer turn groups Off.


Nope, I never use any of my TiVos with grouping off. I just wish TiVo to use the correct date on folders. Making up random dates is not a solution.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

aaronwt said:


> A work around might be to use KMTTG from a PC. I just looked at my Roamio Pro list using KMTTG and I am still able to view the My Show list in KMTTG without folders. This is not a view I would normally use, but I just unchecked the option and all my shows are now being listed without folders in KMTTG.
> 
> When viewing from the Roamio Pro or a Mini all these old Futurama episodes are in a folder. Which I do prefer. But for someone that doesn't want to look at folders, at least KMTTG provides an option to view without folders.


Thumbs up! Assuming KMTTG keeps working. I'm going to give up my attempt to upload movies in name sequence until we know for sure.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> Nope, I never use any of my TiVos with grouping off. I just wish TiVo to use the correct date on folders. Making up random dates is not a solution.


I'm sorry, but with SP and groups On, the date of the group was still not the oldest recording in the group, it was the newest, and that has only changed for groups with streaming. I still don't know what happens with groups that have recordings and an older episode gets added to the streaming options. I assume it will get the date of the change, but I don't have a group to see that yet.

I guess you want streaming to be included, but the group should still use the newest recording date, not the date something is added to a streaming service. If they did that, then those who use streaming wouldn't have any way to tell there has been something added. Some folks using streaming rather than record reruns that aren't broadcast in sequence.


----------



## Jed1

TiVoMargret said:


> There will be a delay in moving TiVo Premiere households to 20.4.6. I will post an update when I have more information.
> 
> --Margret


Why?


----------



## alleybj

I added all three seasons of Batman yesterday, and the folder has now disappeared. What's up with that?


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> I'm sorry, but with SP and groups On, the date of the group was still not the oldest recording in the group, it was the newest, and that has only changed for groups with streaming..


Yes, this is the problem. It is no longer showing the newest recorded date.



DoubleDAZ said:


> I guess you want streaming to be included, but the group should still use the newest recording date, not the date something is added to a streaming service. If they did that, then those who use streaming wouldn't have any way to tell there has been something added. Some folks using streaming rather than record reruns that aren't broadcast in sequence.


How does setting the date to a random date help someone who uses streaming on a OnePass? If the folder has recordings, it should not get the last recorded date reset. TiVo has the complete guide data for all of the episodes. Setting the wrong date is not useful to anyone.


----------



## astrohip

nooneuknow said:


> Acknowledged, and appreciated. Good luck in these troubled times and dark days.


Dramatic much? 



nooneuknow said:


> Anybody else, not yet updated, locked-out of all scheduling operations?


Nope, no problems at all. All four of my TiVos, and I venture a guess, thousands of others, are working just fine. My only problem: the hundreds of posts to multiple threads by one poster who is driving us regular joes away.:down:

Look, we get you're unhappy. But your passive-aggressive sarcastic posts are filling up far too many threads here at TCF. It's impossible to actually have a conversation about bugs and/or solutions without dozens & dozens of your posts hiding any potentially valuable replies.

As a friendly request, could you not post unless you actually have something useful to contribute, and not just more self-aggrandizing BS? Please?


----------



## cherry ghost

astrohip said:


> Dramatic much?
> 
> Nope, no problems at all. All four of my TiVos, and I venture a guess, thousands of others, are working just fine. My only problem: the hundreds of posts to multiple threads by one poster who is driving us regular joes away.:down:
> 
> Look, we get you're unhappy. But your passive-aggressive sarcastic posts are filling up far too many threads here at TCF. It's impossible to actually have a conversation about bugs and/or solutions without dozens & dozens of your posts hiding any potentially valuable replies.
> 
> As a friendly request, could you not post unless you actually have something useful to contribute, and not just more self-aggrandizing BS? Please?


All this


----------



## ajwees41

Jed1 said:


> Why?


that's a good question thought having premiere and roamio on same software meant the amazon zpp would just need added to premiere. sounds like it's still going to be launched or why wait for it and launch onepass at the same time?


----------



## JWhites

ajwees41 said:


> The premiere can already do H.264 just not Amazon prime and onepass which has been postponed via a post by Tivo Margret.


Not what I was talking about, I'm referring to the ability to stream H.264 content from the TiVo through the Stream. The Stream still needs the software update.


----------



## JWhites

ajwees41 said:


> where did she post here or twitter? you would think power saving hould work on premiere


Here on this thread, when I asked her about it coming to the Premiere.


----------



## JWhites

JoeKustra said:


> You're right. I meant EAS. Been too much snow. Brain getting smaller.


:up: I'd take the ice and snow over heat and humidity any day.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## JWhites

bradleys said:


> Streaming to the IOS app? from my perspective in home streaming is really very good. I haven't had a chance to test the away from home streaming since the update - so I cannot comment.
> 
> I did do a download and it is still dog slow! I am sure that is a function of the trans-coding, but dang, it would be nice to make it a little faster!


The app seems more responsive and I've found both streaming in house and away is really very good, I mean if I'm on a really good wifi signal while away the picture quality was shockingly good. :up:


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> Yes, this is the problem. It is no longer showing the newest recorded date.
> 
> How does setting the date to a random date help someone who uses streaming on a OnePass? If the folder has recordings, it should not get the last recorded date reset. TiVo has the complete guide data for all of the episodes. Setting the wrong date is not useful to anyone.


I get that you think it's random and that's fine, but to Tivo it's simply the latest date something in the group changed. For people who use streaming, I would think that's a good thing and nothing changes for people who don't care about streaming. I suppose they could have done something different for the "first" time streaming was turned on, but since it changes as soon as a new recording hits, I guess they didn't think it would be that big a deal.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm trying to figure out why you'd want to turn streaming on for a group if you don't care when something gets added. I get that you don't like that they assign the current date when you initially turn it on, but it changes back as soon as a new recording hits, within a week for current programs. I turned it on for The Simpsons on 2/1 and it changed to 2/2 that night when the next episode was recorded. I also turned it on for The Americans on 2/1 and it changed to 2/4 when it's latest episode was recorded. I just turned it on for Bones, but made it for new episodes, so nothing will happen until a new episode is recorded or gets added to a streaming service. If I had wanted to start streaming Bones from the beginning, I'd have turned it on for season 1 and it would have been assigned today's date. Granted, that date is sort of random, but it tells me that there are indeed episodes available for streaming and I don't have to go through the app to search.

I agree that things would look weird if I turned it on for every 1P I have. Since many are not broadcasting new episodes at the moment, they'd show up with today's date for quite awhile, but I don't know why I'd do that. I assume you know it's not all or nothing, it has to be turned on for each 1P and you can turn it on for just new episodes, not past seasons, like I did for Bones.

At any rate, like I said, it's not going to change any time soon, so I'm trying to show how I'm making the best of it. I don't know how I'd have done it. I want to know when new episodes of HOC are available, so having it pop up with the current date when Netflix adds the next season works for me. If I turn it on for a current season, the date will appear random until the next episode gets recorded, usually within the week, so that's okay with me too. If I turn it on for Bones, it won't be coming back until Fall, so the date will be the current date until then. But I don't know why I'd do that if I didn't want to start watching streaming episodes.

Oh well, we'll just have to disagree on how much of a problem this is. If it were all or nothing like not being able to turn groups off, I'd completely agree with the extent of the problem. As it is though, I just don't see it. If you don't want to start watching streaming episodes, don't turn it on for all seasons, seems simple as that to me.


----------



## jcthorne

rainwater said:


> The order is not the only important part. The date is just as important. What you suggest does not fix the problem of TiVo displaying a random date. Instead of "workarounds" shouldn't TiVo actually fix the problem to make it usable?


Trouble is, its not broken. The folder rises to the top when you add streaming to it because you just added a bunch of episodes that were not there prior to adding them. The current date is the date they were added to the folder. IE the date of the newest item in the folder just became the current date when you added the streaming episodes. If you dont want the streaming episodes included in the folder, turn them off. The date will go back to the newest date item in the folder (eventually, the re indexing is not immediate).

The folders are either sorted by date or they are not. Its very simple, it cannot sort by the date of SOME items in folders.


----------



## jcthorne

nooneuknow said:


> While KMTTG is proving to be quite valuable (always was), I have some concerns about if it will continue to work, once the rollout has finished, and TiVo tidies up the backend servers, pruning out that which they no longer need to support, on nodes for boxes capable of 1P.
> 
> The author doesn't want the update, thus will only get it when general rollout forces it on him. He often relies on others to test, as he only own the hardware he owns, limiting his direct testing.
> 
> He has expressed that he believes a secondary set of RPC commands might be involved in all of this. If TiVo is using two sets, and takes one out post-rollout, that could break KMTTG, and/or force him to reverse-engineer the other set, to regain functions, or support new ones.
> 
> I'm simply saying that until the rollout finishes, TiVo's backend might be supporting two "standards", and it's unlikely TiVo will continue to support both, once all TSNs have been flagged to run under 20.4.6, and backend maintenance/cleanup occurs.
> 
> I'm not 100% sure this is a valid concern. But, it's based on some pretty sound foundations.


I would not be too concerned about it. The protocols came from reverse engineering the commands used by the mobile apps. New commands and settings will need to be discovered but the old ones are not likely to change. If they did, it would not happen until they update the mobile apps too.


----------



## 59er

DoubleDAZ said:


> My suggestion to use a WL for New episodes and a 1P for reruns on a specific channel for The Simpsons problem didn't work very well.
> 
> 1. The 2nd pass continued to display "updating" in the One Pass manager.
> 2. Both passes were assigned a date of the newest recording.
> 3. Both passes included duplicate recordings. I thought this was because of the 28-day rule, but now I believe it was simply because of the 2 passes were trying to do different things they weren't designed to do at the same time. Might explain a little why Tivo chose not to allow multiple 1Ps.
> 4. When I deleted to WL, the 1P date reverted to 2/1, the date I created it and based on the fact that I included streaming.
> 5. It fell lower in the My Shows list based on the 2/1 date.


I don't think your workaround didn't work, just because the eps showed in both folders; that's how WLs work -- they show the WL recordings in a starred folder, but the TV show also gets its own folder showing everything.

What the workaround is supposed to accomplish is making sure that the new episodes don't get deleted because of the old episodes. So unless the WL new eps are being deleted in the wrong priority order, then it is working properly (even if not quite how you expected).


----------



## DoubleDAZ

59er said:


> I don't think your workaround didn't work, just because the eps showed in both folders; that's how WLs work -- they show the WL recordings in a starred folder, but the TV show also gets its own folder showing everything.
> 
> What the workaround is supposed to accomplish is making sure that the new episodes don't get deleted because of the old episodes. So unless the WL new eps are being deleted in the wrong priority order, then it is working properly (even if not quite how you expected).


My point about not working was two-fold:
- the WL recorded reruns even though it was set for "New only". The goal was to limit the WL to New episodes and let the 1P pick up the reruns on FXX.
- The WL pass never finished "updating", so there was obviously something conflicting.


----------



## Keen

astrohip said:


> Dramatic much?
> 
> Nope, no problems at all. All four of my TiVos, and I venture a guess, thousands of others, are working just fine. My only problem: the hundreds of posts to multiple threads by one poster who is driving us regular joes away.:down:
> 
> Look, we get you're unhappy. But your passive-aggressive sarcastic posts are filling up far too many threads here at TCF. It's impossible to actually have a conversation about bugs and/or solutions without dozens & dozens of your posts hiding any potentially valuable replies.
> 
> As a friendly request, could you not post unless you actually have something useful to contribute, and not just more self-aggrandizing BS? Please?


:up:


----------



## slowbiscuit

DeltaOne said:


> I reported the guide problem regarding Wheeler Dealers to TiVo. Just got a reply saying they're working with the vendor to resolve the issue. Here's the reply:
> 
> ------
> _A TiVo Channel Lineup Specialist will work to resolve the issue as quickly as possible with our Program Guide Data provider. This typically takes five to seven business days. Most lineup changes are downloaded to your TiVo box automatically during a daily connection, so you won't need to change your Season Passes or other scheduled recordings. _
> ------


The problem with Wheeler Dealers (and most of the other Brit shows) is the well-known issue with the OAD being when it was run in the UK, not here. It's not something they're going to fix even though in my view the OAD should be per country/per channel and therefore fixed by Velocity, BBCA etc. It's really not a Tivo issue.


----------



## JoeKustra

slowbiscuit said:


> The problem with Wheeler Dealers (and most of the other Brit shows) is the well-known issue with the OAD being when it was run in the UK, not here. It's not something they're going to fix even though in my view the OAD should be per country/per channel and therefore fixed by Velocity, BBCA etc. It's really not a Tivo issue.


I disagree. It's a TiVo issue when Zap2It shows a Canadian show as "new" but TiVo doesn't because the OAD is too old or too new. Guide _rules_ seem to override common sense.


----------



## DeltaOne

slowbiscuit said:


> The problem with Wheeler Dealers (and most of the other Brit shows) is the well-known issue with the OAD being when it was run in the UK, not here. It's not something they're going to fix even though in my view the OAD should be per country/per channel and therefore fixed by Velocity, BBCA etc. It's really not a Tivo issue.


Interesting. I didn't really think it was a TiVo issue, I know the guide data comes from somewhere else -- so I used TiVo's web site to report the issue.

Thanks for the info though -- I'll either use a Wish List or simply set a manual recording. I'm guessing most of the new Wheeler Dealer shows will be Wednesday at 9 pm.

Maybe a Wish List with the three thumbs up trick? I just read about the three thumbs up thing, I've never done that.


----------



## slowbiscuit

There's no good way to record a show with a crap OAD (for us). You can try anything you want but you'll end up with a bunch of repeats if you want to try and catch new only.

What I do is set a new only Wheeler Dealers 1P and then check it once a month or so to see if anything's new (to us), then do manual scheduling every week. Since they only run 6-8 eps in a 'season' it's not that big a deal, but it's easy to miss new stuff that way.


----------



## wmcbrine

moyekj said:


> TiVo got rid of functionality when transitioning wishlists from SDUI to HDUI that still have not been recovered and probably never will


What happened there? I missed that.


----------



## bradleys

@moyekj was pretty ticked when this was released. And he is right, the more time that goes by, the less noise changes like this generate.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=507804



moyekj said:


> Surprised nobody has mentioned this yet. I know a lot of people here are clamoring for HDUI screens for everything, but I say leave good enough alone. HDUI Wishlists screens are an example of how perfectly functioning SDUI screens are being replaced by buggy and less featured HDUI screens.
> 
> I use wishlists a lot as search bookmarks. So, for example I'll have a title only wishlist called "NFL Football" and use the "upcoming" menu entry to see upcoming games that I may want to record.
> 
> The new HDUI Wishlist implementation is just terrible now for that functionality. At least 3 things that are annoying:
> 
> 1. All wishlists are now set to auto-record automatically by default up front without up front option to not do so. So when I setup a generic wishlist with 100s of matches now the scheduler gets bogged down scheduling all of them only to all be cancelled a few minutes later when I get the chance to go and turn off auto-record option.
> 
> 2. When using the "All Upcoming" feature when you press select on a specific show to get full details and then left arrow out to get back to the list of upcoming you are thrown to the top of the list every single time. Extremely annoying if you are going through a big list and trying to pick out individual recordings to schedule.
> NOTE: If you go to a specific wishlist and use the "Upcoming" feature then it works as expected. i.e. This issue is broken for the "All Upcoming" feature only.
> 
> 3. Channel up/down to move between show details in upcoming doesn't work, just as is the case for all the other HDUI screens.
> 
> 4. HDUI Wishlists virtual keyboard doesn't honor uppercase letters when using virtual remotes using full keyboards (telnet and/or RPC protocols). i.e. To get uppercase 'H' I can't use shift+h with the virtual remote.
> 
> 5. The Roamio Upcoming list wastes tons of vertical space showing you WLs with no matching shows. That means you have to scroll through lots of useless non-matching WLs to get to see the ones that have matches.
> 
> i.e. Functionality that worked fine for years has now been crippled. So for anyone asking for everything to be ported over to HDUI, be careful what you wish for. I personally would like to have the old SDUI implementation back for a lot of things, especially Wishlists.


----------



## rainwater

jcthorne said:


> Trouble is, its not broken. The folder rises to the top when you add streaming to it because you just added a bunch of episodes that were not there prior to adding them.


So they should just rename the date sort option then and not use the word "date". TiVo has the guide data and knows the original air date. Adding streaming shouldn't just make up dates because TiVo is too lazy to fix the sorting.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> So they should just rename the date sort option then and not use the word "date". TiVo has the guide data and knows the original air date. Adding streaming shouldn't just make up dates because TiVo is too lazy to fix the sorting.


I could be wrong, but the date has nothing to do with the "original air date", it's the date of the latest change to the group or individual recording. If it were OAD, it'd be the OAD for reruns and it's not, it's the current date. It's the date of the group, not the date of the recordings in the group and never has been. It's just a coincidence that the dates agree when a "new" episode gets recorded. If I record an episode of MASH that was originally aired 10 years ago or last year, is it supposed to use that date, even if it knows it? Of course not, it uses the "current" date. As far as I can tell, the only time it uses OAD is when you push/pull a file to the Tivo from a PC and add OAD to the metadata txt file.


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> I could be wrong, but the date has nothing to do with the "original air date", it's the date of the latest change to the group or individual recording. If it were OAD, it'd be the OAD for reruns and it's not, it's the current date. It's the date of the group, not the date of the recordings in the group and never has been. It's just a coincidence that the dates agree when a "new" episode gets recorded. If I record an episode of MASH that was originally aired 10 years ago or last year, is it supposed to use that date, even if it knows it? Of course not, it uses the "current" date. As far as I can tell, the only time it uses OAD is when you push/pull a file to the Tivo from a PC and add OAD to the metadata txt file.


Yes, I know how the date option works. I have been using TiVos for 10 years. However, it seems TiVo is adding "streaming" options and not even considering the fact that people still want to record tv. The experience of adding streaming options is terrible. Why should I have to wait for every single one of my OnePasses to record a new episode to get the last date for the folder fixed? How about TiVo not resetting the last used date for the folder when adding streaming options? Why can't they just update it when new streaming episodes are available? Like you said, it does that for recordings. When I add a new OnePass for recordings only, it doesn't add a new folder set to the current date. It shouldn't do it for streaming either. It is inconsistent and a bad experience for current users.


----------



## aaronwt

rainwater said:


> Yes, I know how the date option works. I have been using TiVos for 10 years. However, it seems TiVo is adding "streaming" options and not even considering the fact that people still want to record tv. The experience of adding streaming options is terrible. Why should I have to wait for every single one of my OnePasses to record a new episode to get the last date for the folder fixed? How about TiVo not resetting the last used date for the folder when adding streaming options? Why can't they just update it when new streaming episodes are available? Like you said, it does that for recordings. When I add a new OnePass for recordings only, it doesn't add a new folder set to the current date. It shouldn't do it for streaming either. It is inconsistent and a bad experience for current users.


I don't see how this is a major deal. Sure it goes to the top of the list when you add it, but as soon as a new epsiode is recorded it will have the correct recent date. In the mean time other new content that is recorded will push the folder down.

Yesterday I added a bunch of Streaming Only One Passes and updated some of the recording only ones to include streaming. It put those folders at the top of the My Shows list. But by this morning all those folders weren't even on the first page anymore. And by the time I get home tonight I doubt they will even be on the second page of the My Shows list.


----------



## RoyK

aaronwt said:


> I don't see how this is a major deal. Sure it goes to the top of the list when you add it, but as soon as a new epsiode is recorded it will have the correct recent date. In the mean time other new content that is recorded will push the folder down.
> 
> Yesterday I added a bunch of Streaming Only One Passes and updated some of the recording only ones to include streaming. It put those folders at the top of the My Shows list. But by this morning all those folders weren't even on the first page anymore. And by the time I get home tonight I doubt they will even be on the second page of the My Shows list.


Kinda like the broken analog watch - - - the time is right twice a day. It's OK for the folder date to be screwed up because some day it will be right until the next time it isn't. Right?


----------



## aaronwt

RoyK said:


> Kinda like the broken analog watch - - - the time is right twice a day. It's OK for the folder date to be screwed up because some day it will be right until the next time it isn't. Right?


 I stopped wearing watches last century because of my cell phone clock. Now I always have one to three clocks on me at any time between my cell phones and FitBit. So wearing a watch for me many times is doubly redundant.

I just don't think the date thing is a major issue. I put it in the minor category. The issue people have with multiple SPs being consolidated into one seems like more of a major issue to me. But the question really is what issues TiVo fixes and how long it will take. Some issues might never be fixed. And some might take weeks or months to fix(or even years).


----------



## lpwcomp

If this has been mentioned already, I missed it.

You need to be careful when deleting an entire folder. The second option is now "Delete everything & *cancel this OnePass*"


----------



## rainwater

aaronwt said:


> I just don't think the date thing is a major issue. I put it in the minor category. The issue people have with multiple SPs being consolidated into one seems like more of a major issue to me. But the question really is what issues TiVo fixes and how long it will take. Some issues might never be fixed. And some might take weeks or months to fix.


The severity of issues is always in the eyes of the beholder. But TiVo has always prided itself on the UI. But with OnePass it is a complete mess.

Things like making a change to a OnePass causes a glitch that puts groups into the wrong order until you re-sort them are the type of bugs that should never make it into production.

And then little things like streaming only folders not showing how many episodes are in it just looks wrong. I just don't see what UI designer thought having groups that sometimes show a count and sometimes don't was a good idea. If you are going to allow us to delete streaming episodes just like regular records and tell us that OnePass makes everything the same regardless of source, then why aren't you treating them the same in the My Shows list?

It just seems to me there are so many issues with OnePass (sorting issues, UI issues, no multiple OnePasses) and TiVo hasn't even made time to address them before pushing it out to users.


----------



## TiVoMargret

rainwater said:


> And then little things like streaming only folders not showing how many episodes are in it just looks wrong. I just don't see what UI designer thought having groups that sometimes show a count and sometimes don't was a good idea. If you are going to allow us to delete streaming episodes just like regular records and tell us that OnePass makes everything the same regardless of source, then why aren't you treating them the same in the My Shows list?


This is so you can see which folders have recordings in them, taking up disk space. Streaming links don't use any disk space. The count on My Shows is so that you can easily tell where your disk space is being used, in case you need to free up some space.

--Margret


----------



## rainwater

TiVoMargret said:


> This is so you can see which folders have recordings in them, taking up disk space. Streaming links don't use any disk space. The count on My Shows is so that you can easily tell where your disk space is being used, in case you need to free up some space.
> 
> --Margret


I'm not sure how the count helps in real life. I would rather know how many episodes are there to know how many I need to watch. The My Shows list is there to help the user actually watch shows. I mean, not showing it for disk space estimation seems rather geeky and very unlike TiVo.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> Yes, I know how the date option works. I have been using TiVos for 10 years. However, it seems TiVo is adding "streaming" options and not even considering the fact that people still want to record tv. The experience of adding streaming options is terrible. Why should I have to wait for every single one of my OnePasses to record a new episode to get the last date for the folder fixed? How about TiVo not resetting the last used date for the folder when adding streaming options? Why can't they just update it when new streaming episodes are available? Like you said, it does that for recordings. When I add a new OnePass for recordings only, it doesn't add a new folder set to the current date. It shouldn't do it for streaming either. It is inconsistent and a bad experience for current users.


If you had read what I posted earlier, they do exactly that if you select "New episodes only" from the streaming options. That option is separate from the "New only" option for recordings. As I said, I set a current group to that and the date of the group didn't change, it still shows 2/4 with 3 recordings in it and today is 2/5. It won't change until the streaming service adds "new" episodes or "I" decide I want to check out previous episodes to stream or a new "recording" is added to the group. IMHO, it works exactly the way it should and the way it always has. The only difference is that users now have options to add streaming to the contents, but you still have control.


----------



## aaronwt

rainwater said:


> I'm not sure how the count helps in real life. I would rather know how many episodes are there to know how many I need to watch. The My Shows list is there to help the user actually watch shows. I mean, not showing it for disk space estimation seems rather geeky and very unlike TiVo.


I guess as you mentioned it depends on the eye of the beholder. For me, with streaming, I don't need to know how many episodes there are. Only that I am actually able to stream the epsiodes. I can see what is available when I look in the folder. While I do like to know the number of epsiodes that have actually been recorded without having to open the folder.

Although all of this is still new. I really need to use everything for awhile to see how I really like it with actual use. I could change my mind after a few months of use.


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> If you had read what I posted earlier, they do exactly that if you select "New episodes only" from the streaming options. That option is separate from the "New only" option for recordings. As I said, I set a current group to that and the date of the group didn't change, it still shows 2/4 with 3 recordings in it and today is 2/5. It won't change until the streaming service adds "new" episodes or "I" decide I want to check out previous episodes to stream or a new "recording" is added to the group. IMHO, it works exactly the way it should and the way it always has. The only difference is that users now have options to add streaming to the contents, but you still have control.


If that is the way it is suppose to work then I would really question why it should work that way. While I appreciate you trying to explain it, nothing you are saying really justifies resetting the date to the current date when you choose all episodes. If TiVo doesn't have the data when the episode was added to the streaming service, setting it to today makes it more complicated for users with existing season passes that were previously set to record. While all of this is fine for people setting up new OnePasses, it is a step down for people with already existing season passes.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> Kinda like the broken analog watch - - - the time is right twice a day. It's OK for the folder date to be screwed up because some day it will be right until the next time it isn't. Right?


It's NOT screwed up! If you want links to older streaming episodes, YOU pick the season to begin with and the date of the group is set to the current date because that's when YOU added them. If you only want links to NEW streaming episodes, YOU select "new episodes" in the streaming option and the date of the group DOESN'T change. If you don't want links to any streaming episodes, YOU select "recordings only" and the date of the group DOESN'T change. The date a streaming link or a recording is added to the group is ALWAYS right.


----------



## RoyK

We've been discussing what happens when the Netflixs of the world add new streaming content to our 1P. What happens when they delete some of it? All of it? Do we have empty folders cluttering up our My Programs list?


----------



## rainwater

aaronwt said:


> I guess as you mentioned it depends on the eye of the beholder. For me, with streaming, I don't need to know how many episodes there are. Only that I am actually able to stream the epsiodes. I can see what is available when I look in the folder. While I do like to know the number of epsiodes that have actually been recorded without having to open the folder.


But with streaming, TiVo is touting it as being the same as recordings. They even let you manage the streaming episodes in folder by deleting ones you have watched. Just looking at My Shows with some folders missing a count and some folders out of order, I just wonder how TiVo thinks that is good design. If I were to guess, most people at first glance would think the streaming folders are empty. Based on what Margret said, it seems their priority is now on managing My Shows and not watching shows. This seems to be a 180 from years ago.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

TiVoMargret said:


> This is so you can see which folders have recordings in them, taking up disk space. Streaming links don't use any disk space. The count on My Shows is so that you can easily tell where your disk space is being used, in case you need to free up some space.
> 
> --Margret


Amen!


----------



## DoubleDAZ

aaronwt said:


> I guess as you mentioned it depends on the eye of the beholder. For me, with streaming, I don't need to know how many episodes there are. Only that I am actually able to stream the epsiodes. I can see what is available when I look in the folder. While I do like to know the number of epsiodes that have actually been recorded without having to open the folder.
> 
> Although all of this is still new. I really need to use everything for awhile to see how I really like it with actual use. I could change my mind after a few months of use.


I agree. If I'm watching a current show and also watching past seasons, I'd much rather know I've got 5 new recordings to watch than 3 past seasons of 22 episodes to stream. I sure don't want to see the number 71. Conversely, if I'm trying to "catch up" before I watch any recordings from the current season, knowing I'm got 66 to go could be helpful, but I think I'd rather know how many new recordings are piling up and may be in danger of getting deleted. I'm pretty sure if I'm doing this, I'll know how many I need to stream in order to catch up. Like you, I think this is one of those I need to experience for a time to really know for sure.


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> It's NOT screwed up! If you want links to older streaming episodes, YOU pick the season to begin with and the date of the group is set to the current date because that's when YOU added them. If you only want links to NEW streaming episodes, YOU select "new episodes" in the streaming option and the date of the group DOESN'T change. If you don't want links to any streaming episodes, YOU select "recordings only" and the date of the group DOESN'T change. The date a streaming link or a recording is added to the group is ALWAYS right.


Got ya. If I set it up for several year old streaming stuff the date is set to the latest possible date (now) but if I set it for new stuff the date is left at the old date. In neither case does the date reflect the dates associated with the contents. Makes sense to me...


----------



## RoyK

DoubleDAZ said:


> I agree. If I'm watching a current show and also watching past seasons, I'd much rather know I've got 5 new recordings to watch than 3 past seasons of 22 episodes to stream. I sure don't want to see the number 71. Conversely, if I'm trying to "catch up" before I watch any recordings from the current season, knowing I'm got 66 to go could be helpful, but I think I'd rather know how many new recordings are piling up and may be in danger of getting deleted. I'm pretty sure if I'm doing this, I'll know how many I need to stream in order to catch up. Like you, I think this is one of those I need to experience for a time to really know for sure.


I'd like to see it display something like 5/66 for the example you give.


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> I agree. If I'm watching a current show and also watching past seasons, I'd much rather know I've got 5 new recordings to watch than 3 past seasons of 22 episodes to stream. I sure don't want to see the number 71.


My original comment stated for streaming only OnePasses. In that case nothing is shown at all which is not helpful at all.


----------



## rainwater

DoubleDAZ said:


> It's NOT screwed up! If you want links to older streaming episodes, YOU pick the season to begin with and the date of the group is set to the current date because that's when YOU added them.


I fail to see how that is correct. If I choose to include older episodes, I would expect it would not overwrite the latest episode recording date. I see you are trying to justify why it is happening but it just doesn't make actual sense.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> If that is the way it is suppose to work then I would really question why it should work that way. While I appreciate you trying to explain it, nothing you are saying really justifies resetting the date to the current date when you choose all episodes. If TiVo doesn't have the data when the episode was added to the streaming service, setting it to today makes it more complicated for users with existing season passes that were previously set to record. While all of this is fine for people setting up new OnePasses, it is a step down for people with already existing season passes.


One LAST time, the date has nothing to do with the air date. It's the date the last change was made to the group, be it a new recording being added, you changing the group to add past streaming episodes or the services adding new streaming episodes. You keep trying to tie the date to the broadcast date and it's apples to oranges. Do you REALLY want a date set for the MASH group to be from 1972 when it originally aired? Or how about I Love Lucy or Leave It To Beaver or any number of older shows that people record/watch? Do you really want the date set to the date a rerun first aired? This has never been the case, so why is it a problem now just because streaming options have been added?


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> We've been discussing what happens when the Netflixs of the world add new streaming content to our 1P. What happens when they delete some of it? All of it? Do we have empty folders cluttering up our My Programs list?


That's a good question and I doubt we know for sure yet. The assumption would be it will be just like when the last recording is deleted from a group, the group goes away. However, I assume the 1P will still be active unless you delete it just like my 1P for HOC is active waiting for them to add new episodes.


----------



## bradleys

DoubleDAZ said:


> That's a good question and I doubt we know for sure yet. The assumption would be it will be just like when the last recording is deleted from a group, the group goes away. However, I assume the 1P will still be active unless you delete it just like my 1P for HOC is active waiting for them to add new episodes.


I suspect you are correct... With no content from streaming providers, you would have no folder. As long as the 1P stays active, and at sometime in the future a streaming provider adds that content, it would show back up.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> Got ya. If I set it up for several year old streaming stuff the date is set to the latest possible date (now) but if I set it for new stuff the date is left at the old date. In neither case does the date reflect the dates associated with the contents. Makes sense to me...


That's exactly the way it should be because nothing has been added to the group. The date of the group only changes when something is added to it. Think of it as an "as of" date. As of MM/DD, here is what's in the group.

And I didn't know we were in some kind of contest.  I couldn't care less about any of this, it works just fine for me. I'm just trying to explain how I think it works and I can see how older Tivo users could tie the date to the recording date and even the air date for new episodes. Unfortunately, that has never been the link. It's always been the date something was added to the group, not the original air date.


----------



## realityboy

bradleys said:


> I suspect you are correct... With no content from streaming providers, you would have no folder. As long as the 1P stays active, and at sometime in the future a streaming provider adds that content, it would show back up.


What would be really nice in a future update, but probably impossible, would be if it could show the date that the streaming show was going away the same way it shows the keep until date on a recording.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> I'd like to see it display something like 5/66 for the example you give.


I'd have absolutely no problem with that and that's exactly what I would have done if I had designed One Pass. I'm not arguing for or against, I'm just trying to explain how it works and some possible reasons why. If I had my way, groups would display the date of the oldest recording in the group, so I'd know right off I need to watch "this" before it gets deleted.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> My original comment stated for streaming only OnePasses. In that case nothing is shown at all which is not helpful at all.


And I'd tend to agree. I think RoyK had the right idea and I said so in my reply to his post. Like I told him, I would have designed this differently, but they didn't ask me.  I'm just trying to explain how things work based on the misconceptions of how things worked before One Pass, like the date having something to do with original air date. The reason for the date has not changed, it's when something it added to a group, be it a streaming link, a new recording or a rerun recording.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

rainwater said:


> I fail to see how that is correct. If I choose to include older episodes, I would expect it would not overwrite the latest episode recording date. I see you are trying to justify why it is happening but it just doesn't make actual sense.


Why not? You added streaming episodes to the group, didn't you?

Look, I'm not trying to "justify" anything, I'm trying to explain what the date means and how it works. That doesn't mean I agree with it or that you have to agree with it, but its working correctly to do what it was designed to do. It was never the original air date, so that misconception is simply wrong. It's always been the date something was added to the group, like it or not.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

bradleys said:


> I suspect you are correct... With no content from streaming providers, you would have no folder. As long as the 1P stays active, and at sometime in the future a streaming provider adds that content, it would show back up.


I would certainly hope it would work that way, but I can already see people complaining that the group disappeared.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

realityboy said:


> What would be really nice in a future update, but probably impossible, would be if it could show the date that the streaming show was going away the same way it shows the keep until date on a recording.


That would be nice, but I'm not sure the service even knows that unless there is a contract for X amount of time.


----------



## jcthorne

rainwater said:


> So they should just rename the date sort option then and not use the word "date". TiVo has the guide data and knows the original air date. Adding streaming shouldn't just make up dates because TiVo is too lazy to fix the sorting.


It did not make up the date and it does not sort by OAD. Sorts by newest item added to the folder. I get that it does not work the way you would like. I also think a sort by OAD and a sort by name should be available. Perhaps they will add this soon.


----------



## rainwater

jcthorne said:


> It did not make up the date and it does not sort by OAD. Sorts by newest item added to the folder. I get that it does not work the way you would like. I also think a sort by OAD and a sort by name should be available. Perhaps they will add this soon.


Sort by date should sort streaming episodes by date they were added to the service. The issue does not come up with new OnePasses that are setup from scratch. The issue is converting existing season passes to include streaming options just sets the date to today. My only issue is what this does to existing users trying to use the new OnePass options. I have no issue with the way it will work when setting up from scratch.


----------



## RoyK

rainwater said:


> Sort by date should sort streaming episodes by date they were added to the service. The issue does not come up with new OnePasses that are setup from scratch. The issue is converting existing season passes to include streaming options just sets the date to today. My only issue is what this does to existing users trying to use the new OnePass options. I have no issue with the way it will work when setting up from scratch.


My issue is simple. Today it is trivial to list the recordings by recording date and to find the newest or oldest recording. As far as I can see to do that with 1P requires a pencil and paper and digging into each folder. Might not be at all important to many but for more than a few of us it's quite a step back.


----------



## Keen

lpwcomp said:


> If this has been mentioned already, I missed it.
> 
> You need to be careful when deleting an entire folder. The second option is now "Delete everything & *cancel this OnePass*"


Yikes, that's good to know.


----------



## atmuscarella

RoyK said:


> My issue is simple. Today it is trivial to list the recordings by recording date and to find the newest or oldest recording. As far as I can see to do that with 1P requires a pencil and paper and digging into each folder. Might not be at all important to many but for more than a few of us it's quite a step back.


I don't have a work around for you on your TiVo but if you install TiVo Desktop on a computer under the "Pick Recordings to Transfer" link you will get a listing you can sort by date recorded.


----------



## RoyK

atmuscarella said:


> I don't have a work around for you on your TiVo but if you install TiVo Desktop on a computer under the "Pick Recordings to Transfer" link you will get a listing you can sort by date recorded.


I appreciate the suggestion and do have desktop. But having to fire up another computer and a program so I can watch programs in order of recording seems ridiculous for the number one DVR out there.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> I appreciate the suggestion and do have desktop. But having to fire up another computer and a program so I can watch programs in order of recording seems ridiculous for the number one DVR out there.


It seems to me that you want it both ways. You like having the episodes that are available OTT displayed in the group. You just don't like the effect it has on group sorting.


----------



## Jed1

I was just wondering has anybody else besides the first group of Roamio owners received the Priority Update.
Us Premiere owners were supposed to get the update this week but Margret torpedoed that two days ago for an unknown reason.
I am wondering if they stopped the update from rolling out to everybody or just to the Premiere owners. 
I just hope us Premiere owners are not.....DOOMED!


----------



## bradleys

Jed1 said:


> I was just wondering has anybody else besides the first group of Roamio owners received the Priority Update.
> Us Premiere owners were supposed to get the update this week but Margret torpedoed that two days ago for an unknown reason.
> I am wondering if they stopped the update from rolling out to everybody or just to the Premiere owners.
> I just hope us Premiere owners are not.....DOOMED!


Not sure if it is still rolling out or not.

They may have found some real issues with the preferred group and are addressing those before final release.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> It seems to me that you want it both ways. You like having the episodes that are available OTT displayed in the group. You just don't like the effect it has on group sorting.


Actually, no. I'm perfectly happy with the way it is now. I have absolutely no problem quickly finding and watching OTT content right now. But I see the gee whiz appeal of the new features.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Actually, no. I'm perfectly happy with the way it is now. I have absolutely no problem quickly finding and watching OTT content right now. But I see the gee whiz appeal of the new features.


The the solution for both you and rainwater is simple - don't add streaming to any of your 1Ps and it will be just as it was before, except for the additional sorting options within a group.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> The the solution for both you and rainwater is simple - don't add streaming to any of your 1Ps and it will be just as it was before, except for the additional sorting options within a group.


I will have few if any 1Ps with streaming content. However that won't restore the ability to turn off groups and sort by date recorded or the ability to set up multiple SPs. Those things are probably gone for good. All of the workarounds so far suggested are poor substitutes at best. Guess that's progress but the price is awfully high.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

RoyK said:


> My issue is simple. Today it is trivial to list the recordings by recording date and to find the newest or oldest recording. As far as I can see to do that with 1P requires a pencil and paper and digging into each folder. Might not be at all important to many but for more than a few of us it's quite a step back.


That's very true, but that's because the option to turn groups off was taken away, many of us are grumbling about that.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

lpwcomp said:


> The the solution for both you and rainwater is simple - don't add streaming to any of your 1Ps and it will be just as it was before, except for the additional sorting options within a group.


The date will be, but they still can't turn groups off to find the oldest recording to watch. At this point, I'm not sure that's a real problem or just a complaint because it was changed. I don't watch recordings by turning off groups and selecting the oldest recording, but apparently some do and that should have been considered.


----------



## moonscape

RoyK said:


> My issue is simple. Today it is trivial to list the recordings by recording date and to find the newest or oldest recording. As far as I can see to do that with 1P requires a pencil and paper and digging into each folder. Might not be at all important to many but for more than a few of us it's quite a step back.


Yes. To me it would help at least somewhat if groups are forced on, to at least be given an option of folder sort by newest recording or oldest within the folder.

So many of my folders are non-series like Nova, Frontline, Met Performances, Global Voices - and it's impossible to remember which have oldest recordings. It's easier with series where I know where I am in a season, what I've watched. Someone suggested I could go to the 'Going Away Soon' to manage this, but it's a long and unwieldy enough list to make it functionally useless and isn't a workaround for not being able to find oldest recordings.

As much as I value kmttg and have said I'm grateful to still be able to see groups off there, I'm concerned about its future availability and for my uses, having the option at the box has been extremely important.


----------



## jcthorne

rainwater said:


> And then little things like streaming only folders not showing how many episodes are in it just looks wrong. I just don't see what UI designer thought having groups that sometimes show a count and sometimes don't was a good idea.


For those groups that have no local recordings, would it be better to show a '0' count? At least to me it would have been more consistent.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> I will have few if any 1Ps with streaming content. However that won't restore the ability to turn off groups and sort by date recorded or the ability to set up multiple SPs. Those things are probably gone for good. All of the workarounds so far suggested are poor substitutes at best. Guess that's progress but the price is awfully high.


Yes, turning off groups is gone. Should still be an option. "Sort by date" is still the same as it was with groups on. IMHO, there should always have been an option to sort groups by the _*oldest*_ recording.

Being able to set up multiple SPs for the same program is a different issue, although I agree that it should still be an option.

As you say, these things are probably gone for good, particularly multiple SPs for a series since a 1P appears to be tightly coupled to its series group.


----------



## ajwees41

Jed1 said:


> I was just wondering has anybody else besides the first group of Roamio owners received the Priority Update.
> Us Premiere owners were supposed to get the update this week but Margret torpedoed that two days ago for an unknown reason.
> I am wondering if they stopped the update from rolling out to everybody or just to the Premiere owners.
> I just hope us Premiere owners are not.....DOOMED!


She gave a reason the Amazon app was not finished/working like it should.


----------



## Jed1

ajwees41 said:


> She gave a reason the Amazon app was not finished/working like it should.


Actually she did not give any reason at all. This is what she said:


> There will be a delay in moving TiVo Premiere households to 20.4.6. I will post an update when I have more information.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10394678#post10394678
She never updated with a reason nor she never said how long the delay will be.

Unfortunately, TiVo support just said this on Twitter concerning the Premieres and the 1P update:


> It will be available for Premieres using the HD menus once they get the update later this year!




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/563153317657067521
This is what TiVo supported tweeted about 1P and the Roamio's:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/562761245687033857

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/563145330947264514


> It started yesterday and will continue in order of submission. All boxes will have it by the end of the month.


Now I have to find a different method to view Amazon Prime as I signed up using the discount deal the other week. I ****ing somehow knew this would happen.


----------



## Arcady

Jed1 said:


> Now I have to find a different method to view Amazon Prime as I signed up using the discount deal the other week. I ****ing somehow knew this would happen.


You can watch Prime content on a computer. I used to plug a laptop into a TV to watch it before my TiVo could do it.


----------



## Jed1

Arcady said:


> You can watch Prime content on a computer. I used to plug a laptop into a TV to watch it before my TiVo could do it.


If I wanted to watch Prime on my computers I would have signed up long ago. I wanted to do this with my TiVos and watch Prime on my Kuros.


----------



## Arcady

You said you wanted another method. I gave you one. 

Whatever.


----------



## ajwees41

Arcady said:


> You can watch Prime content on a computer. I used to plug a laptop into a TV to watch it before my TiVo could do it.


it was said this would include the new amazon app that roamios had along with onepass. if they couldn't get it working why not just give premiere users a huge discount on roamios since it was promised and it is now a year or more away. They should have just left premieres on the old software and not move to the roamio sofware.


----------



## Arcady

Nobody said it was a year away. It was supposed to start coming out this week. Obviously they found something wrong and need to fix it before rollout. A bug that needs to be patched doesn't add 11 months to delivery.

As for buying Prime when your hardware can't use it yet, the only one to blame there is the one buying Prime.


----------



## ajwees41

Arcady said:


> Nobody said it was a year away. It was supposed to start coming out this week. Obviously they found something wrong and need to fix it before rollout. A bug that needs to be patched doesn't add 11 months to delivery.
> 
> As for buying Prime when your hardware can't use it yet, the only one to blame there is the one buying Prime.


it might not be a year away but it sure feels that way when tivo says it's coming and at the last minute postpones it yet again. why not just say if it's really being worked on or vaporware(not going to work on premieres) eventhough same codebase. and no new timeframes doesn't sound good.


----------



## pfiagra

Jed1 said:


> I was just wondering has anybody else besides the first group of Roamio owners received the Priority Update.


Can't speak to the current status of the rollout, but I recieved the update earlier this week, which would have been after the pre-Super Bowl first group.


----------



## Jed1

pfiagra said:


> Can't speak to the current status of the rollout, but I recieved the update earlier this week, which would have been after the pre-Super Bowl first group.


Thanks for the update. I wasn't sure if TiVo stopped the update for everybody or just us Premiere owners. It is obviously apparent TiVo stopped the update for the Premieres only.


----------



## Jed1

Arcady said:


> You said you wanted another method. I gave you one.
> 
> Whatever.


I am sorry but I am very hot under the collar right now. I actually do not have a laptop as I have two desktop PCs.
The reason I wanted to use the TiVos is they support 1080p24 output for Amazon Prime which my Kuros can accept.


----------



## Jed1

bradleys said:


> Not sure if it is still rolling out or not.
> 
> They may have found some real issues with the preferred group and are addressing those before final release.


It is rolling out for Roamio owners but not for the Premiere owners. TiVo support claims it will be available sometime later this year but they do not have an ETA on its roll out.


----------



## Bytez

Why is channel 26 taking 2 tuners? Never seen this happen on previous versions.


----------



## Arcady

Bytez said:


> Why is channel 26 taking 2 tuners? Never seen this happen on previous versions.


When the TiVo first boots, all the tuners will be on the same channel, usually whatever the lowest channel number is. Until it has actually needed to change all of the tuners to a new channel, they will stay on the first channel.

This is not new.


----------



## lpwcomp

Bytez said:


> Why is channel 26 taking 2 tuners? Never seen this happen on previous versions.
> 
> View attachment 22409


There are at least two ways that can happen.

1.Overlapping recordings on that channel.

2. It was the channel to which the foreground tuner was set when the TiVo re-booted and only 4 of the tuners have been changed to other channels.


----------



## Arcady

lpwcomp said:


> 1.Overlapping recordings on that channel.


Overlapping recordings on the same channel no longer require two tuners.


----------



## lpwcomp

Arcady said:


> Overlapping recordings on the same channel no longer require two tuners.


That is false. There was a prior release that did implement that feature but it had to be removed as it caused problems and has not been re-implemented.


----------



## Arcady

Sorry, I didn't know they removed the feature where overlapping shows could share a tuner. I only noticed when the pixelization went away after an update, and I assumed they fixed it rather than scrapped it.


----------



## Dan203

It's too bad they couldn't get it to work. They should call us, we have some experience cutting/splicing compressed streams.


----------



## realityboy

DoubleDAZ said:


> That would be nice, but I'm not sure the service even knows that unless there is a contract for X amount of time.


Netflix usually has a list online of what's leaving each month. Obviously it couldn't be any further in advance than that, and even then, there are cases like Dr. Who where it gets renewed last minute. It won't bother me, but I could see user complaints if they're watching a series only to have it disappear from Now Playing with no notice. Maybe the Spring 2016 update.


----------



## CinciDVR

Jed1 said:


> Unfortunately, TiVo support just said this on Twitter concerning the Premieres and the 1P update:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It will be available for Premieres using the HD menus once they get the update later this year!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/563153317657067521
Click to expand...

I'm relatively new to the Tivo (May 2014), and have never used a Premier, but I find the Tivo Support tweet very interesting for it's implication that Premier users must use HD menus to get 1P, and by implication that they won't get 1P if they use SD menus. If this is the case, it implies that Tivo has to keep the back end code to handle SP on Premiers using SD menus which should be good news for KMTTG.

It also makes me wonder what will actually happen on Premiers when users switch between HD and SD menus. The first time they switch from SD to HD menus, won't all the SP have to be converted to 1P? What happens if they then switch back to SD menus? Will the 1P be converted to SP?


----------



## SugarBowl

Dates for recorded shows in the iPad app aren't correct. I record Fox and friends every morning and the date for every recorded episode says 10/6/1996. 



David letterman show doesn't give the recorded date, it shows the season and episode number.


----------



## JoeKustra

CinciDVR said:


> I'm relatively new to the Tivo (May 2014), and have never used a Premier, but I find the Tivo Support tweet very interesting for it's implication that Premier users must use HD menus to get 1P, and by implication that they won't get 1P if they use SD menus. If this is the case, it implies that Tivo has to keep the back end code to handle SP on Premiers using SD menus which should be good news for KMTTG.
> 
> It also makes me wonder what will actually happen on Premiers when users switch between HD and SD menus. The first time they switch from SD to HD menus, won't all the SP have to be converted to 1P? What happens if they then switch back to SD menus? Will the 1P be converted to SP?


There you go, getting all logical and analytical. This is where I'm supposed to get emotional and attack your city or state. 

That's a really good question. I wonder when we will have an answer.


----------



## tatergator1

lpwcomp said:


> There are at least two ways that can happen.
> 
> 1.Overlapping recordings on that channel.
> 
> 2. It was the channel to which the foreground tuner was set when the TiVo re-booted and only 4 of the tuners have been changed to other channels.


There is a 3rd case, which I've never figured out. It's not uncommon for me to find 3-5 tuners on the same channel when I first turn the TV on in the morning. It has not rebooted overnight, I can check the MoCA network stats and find uptime of 40+ days. It could be related to EAS broadcasts, since my Mini almost always has a tuner in the morning too. Perhaps the EAS logic defaults all idle tuners back to a certain channel after the alert finishes.

As already stated, this is not new, been this way for the 14 months I've owned my Roamio.


----------



## joewom

ajwees41 said:


> it might not be a year away but it sure feels that way when tivo says it's coming and at the last minute postpones it yet again. why not just say if it's really being worked on or vaporware(not going to work on premieres) eventhough same codebase. and no new timeframes doesn't sound good.


I am sure you would be the first to complain if they rolled it out and it didn't work right. Then it would be why did tivo roll out something not ready. Why are people so me me me and not understand software has delays. Apple, Microsoft, Google all have delayed software for bugs they found or not working as it should.


----------



## dave13077

I ran into an issue with Onepass last night. We just discovered The Blacklist on Netflix. When I turned on the bedroom Mini last night I noticed that a current episode of the show was airing. So I set up a Onepass for it. When I went into my shows it just showed the current episode recording and didn't have the streaming (Netflix episodes). I tried to modify the Onepass on the Mini to include the streaming but didn't find an option for that. I do have the Onepass defaults set to "record and streaming". The only way I could fix it was to go to my Roamio Pro and edit the Onepass to add streaming. 

So I guess my question is if you set up a Onepass from a Mini shouldn't it follow the Onepass recording defaults? I mean the situation I had was the exact situation that the Onepass was designed for and it didn't work , unless of course I was doing something wrong.


----------



## JoeKustra

tatergator1 said:


> There is a 3rd case, which I've never figured out. It's not uncommon for me to find 3-5 tuners on the same channel when I first turn the TV on in the morning. It has not rebooted overnight, I can check the MoCA network stats and find uptime of 40+ days. It could be related to EAS broadcasts, since my Mini almost always has a tuner in the morning too. Perhaps the EAS logic defaults all idle tuners back to a certain channel after the alert finishes.
> 
> As already stated, this is not new, been this way for the 14 months I've owned my Roamio.


The EAS (for me) is weekly and monthly and during the day. It does change the channel to my Info channel but changes it back. It does leave the Mini enabled showing the proper named host for a few minutes then going to a message stating "In Use by Unknown box" before the timeout. I agree that it's unlikely you have a reboot so frequently but I'm at a loss why you have so many tuners on the same channel.


----------



## aaronwt

Arcady said:


> When the TiVo first boots, all the tuners will be on the same channel, usually whatever the lowest channel number is. Until it has actually needed to change all of the tuners to a new channel, they will stay on the first channel.
> 
> This is not new.


Mine seem to come back tuned to the channel that was being watched, not the lower number channel.


----------



## Arcady

SugarBowl said:


> Dates for recorded shows in the iPad app aren't correct. I record Fox and friends every morning and the date for every recorded episode says 10/6/1996.


Maybe it is trying to date it based on the date that their facts were verified. Since they just make up most of what they say, it defaults to when the show started?


----------



## Diana Collins

aaronwt said:


> Mine seem to come back tuned to the channel that was being watched, not the lower number channel.


At a minimum, that is how 20.4.6 works. I rebooted one of our Roamios yesterday and all tuners came up tuned to the channel that been on the foreground tuner before the reboot (in this case, HBO).


----------



## Diana Collins

CinciDVR said:


> I'm relatively new to the Tivo (May 2014), and have never used a Premier, but I find the Tivo Support tweet very interesting for it's implication that Premier users must use HD menus to get 1P, and by implication that they won't get 1P if they use SD menus. If this is the case, it implies that Tivo has to keep the back end code to handle SP on Premiers using SD menus which should be good news for KMTTG.
> 
> It also makes me wonder what will actually happen on Premiers when users switch between HD and SD menus. The first time they switch from SD to HD menus, won't all the SP have to be converted to 1P? What happens if they then switch back to SD menus? Will the 1P be converted to SP?


I think the thing they will only have access to with the HD menus is the new Amazon app. Once you get updated to 20.4.6 I have to believe that all the SPs will be converted to 1Ps and both the SD and HD UIs will reflect that.


----------



## Diana Collins

SugarBowl said:


> Dates for recorded shows in the iPad app aren't correct. I record Fox and friends every morning and the date for every recorded episode says 10/6/1996.
> 
> David letterman show doesn't give the recorded date, it shows the season and episode number.


I have seen that before the update as well. When there is no episode specific OAD in the data it seems to default to a very early date (perhaps the date the show premiered?). The sort by season and episode is a new feature of One Pass. I think if you set the folder to show "recordings only" it goes back to the recording date.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

dave13077 said:


> I ran into an issue with Onepass last night. We just discovered The Blacklist on Netflix. When I turned on the bedroom Mini last night I noticed that a current episode of the show was airing. So I set up a Onepass for it. When I went into my shows it just showed the current episode recording and didn't have the streaming (Netflix episodes). I tried to modify the Onepass on the Mini to include the streaming but didn't find an option for that. I do have the Onepass defaults set to "record and streaming". The only way I could fix it was to go to my Roamio Pro and edit the Onepass to add streaming.
> 
> So I guess my question is if you set up a Onepass from a Mini shouldn't it follow the Onepass recording defaults? I mean the situation I had was the exact situation that the Onepass was designed for and it didn't work , unless of course I was doing something wrong.


I found an episode of House airing in WGN. So I hit record on the Mini and the options came up. I selected One Pass and the default options (recordings & streaming) came up. I created the 1P and checked to make sure it was there and recording with the streaming episodes listed. It was and they were, on both the Mini and Pro.

I had tried 2 other programs, Blue Bloods and Law & Order, before I found House. I noted that if there was already a 1p (Blue Bloods), it simply displayed the options for that 1P and allowed me to change them on the Mini. I also noted that if the streaming episodes were not available for free (Law & Order) on a service, the One Pass I created didn't show up unless I set the options to include rent or buy.


----------



## rainwater

dave13077 said:


> I ran into an issue with Onepass last night. We just discovered The Blacklist on Netflix. When I turned on the bedroom Mini last night I noticed that a current episode of the show was airing. So I set up a Onepass for it. When I went into my shows it just showed the current episode recording and didn't have the streaming (Netflix episodes). I tried to modify the Onepass on the Mini to include the streaming but didn't find an option for that. I do have the Onepass defaults set to "record and streaming". The only way I could fix it was to go to my Roamio Pro and edit the Onepass to add streaming.
> 
> So I guess my question is if you set up a Onepass from a Mini shouldn't it follow the Onepass recording defaults? I mean the situation I had was the exact situation that the Onepass was designed for and it didn't work , unless of course I was doing something wrong.


Are you sure your Mini has been updated to the new software as well?


----------



## Arcady

Diana Collins said:


> The sort by season and episode is a new feature of One Pass. I think if you set the folder to show "recordings only" it goes back to the recording date.


You can have it on "recordings only" and still sort by season/episode numbers when you hit the B button.


----------



## dave13077

rainwater said:


> Are you sure your Mini has been updated to the new software as well?


I will have to check when I get home but I am almost positive it updated when my Pro and other Mini was updated. When I hit record I had an option for Onepass and I am assuming if it wasn't running the updated software it would have said Season Pass instead. Just a guess of course.


----------



## Diana Collins

dave13077 said:


> I will have to check when I get home but I am almost positive it updated when my Pro and other Mini was updated. When I hit record I had an option for Onepass and I am assuming if it wasn't running the updated software it would have said Season Pass instead. Just a guess of course.


Someone else reported that if the Mini updates before the DVR, you have to reboot the Mini to get all the One Pass options to appear. Worth a try, if you haven't tried rebooting the Mini yet.


----------



## Diana Collins

Arcady said:


> You can have it on "recordings only" and still sort by season/episode numbers when you hit the B button.


Thanks...was going from memory (I have a mind like a steel sieve).


----------



## dave13077

Diana Collins said:


> Someone else reported that if the Mini updates before the DVR, you have to reboot the Mini to get all the One Pass options to appear. Worth a try, if you haven't tried rebooting the Mini yet.


Thanks for the suggestion. I will give it a try.


----------



## Arcady

Yes, if the Mini updates first, it will still use the name OnePass everywhere, even if the host doesn't have OnePass yet. It will just work like it did before the change from Season Passes. After the host updates, you have to reboot the Mini for it to realize that it can use the new options.


----------



## tatergator1

JoeKustra said:


> The EAS (for me) is weekly and monthly and during the day. It does change the channel to my Info channel but changes it back. It does leave the Mini enabled showing the proper named host for a few minutes then going to a message stating "In Use by Unknown box" before the timeout. I agree that it's unlikely you have a reboot so frequently but I'm at a loss why you have so many tuners on the same channel.


After I posted, that, it occurred to me that blaming EAS made no sense when I remembered some of the investigating I did several months ago. For a few instances where I had multiple tuners on the same channel, I went into DVR diagnostics and reviewed the info for all tuners. As I remember, the last tuned time for tuners all on the same channel was different for each one, but was always within seconds of the hour or half-hour. It's like a weird software bug where after a recording/suggestion completes, something makes a tuner default back to a specific channel.


----------



## Jed1

CinciDVR said:


> I'm relatively new to the Tivo (May 2014), and have never used a Premier, but I find the Tivo Support tweet very interesting for it's implication that Premier users must use HD menus to get 1P, and by implication that they won't get 1P if they use SD menus. If this is the case, it implies that Tivo has to keep the back end code to handle SP on Premiers using SD menus which should be good news for KMTTG.
> 
> It also makes me wonder what will actually happen on Premiers when users switch between HD and SD menus. The first time they switch from SD to HD menus, won't all the SP have to be converted to 1P? What happens if they then switch back to SD menus? Will the 1P be converted to SP?


I don't know why people still use the SD menus. There is now no benefit to using them since the Haxe rewrite. None of the new apps will be added to the SD menus. I think this would be a great time for TiVo to finally do away with them as the SD menu does not exist on the Roamios.

Nobody really knows why TiVo delayed the update to Premiere owners as TiVo has said nothing about it. It could be something as stupid as letting all the Roamios get the update first.


----------



## Jed1

ajwees41 said:


> it might not be a year away but it sure feels that way when tivo says it's coming and at the last minute postpones it yet again. why not just say if it's really being worked on or vaporware(not going to work on premieres) eventhough same codebase. and no new timeframes doesn't sound good.


As you may already know from my outburst last fall, I am no fan of people who use ambiguous language.
If we do not received the update by next week then signing up for the Priority Update was a worthless proposition as they will be getting into the general rollout of the new update.
I found it quite stupid that TiVo change the language on the Priority Update page to say the update will be delayed for the Premiere owners. Since most owners that wanted the update first have already signed up, what sense would it make to change the language. 
Also since I signed up the day the Priority update went live, I would have no way of knowing that there was a delay.



> *Ambiguous*: equivocal, cryptic, enigmatic describe conditions or statements not clear in meaning.


----------



## pfiagra

Jed1 said:


> I don't know why people still use the SD menus. There is now no benefit to using them since the Haxe rewrite.


The HD menus are regularly downloading content (i.e., photos of shows as you navigate) separately from the guide data.

Some people don't have unlimited internet even at home (e.g., my parents). When I set them up with a Premiere, their internet usage shot up and they were close to going past their free limit. It is possible that there is another explanation, but this was the only change in internet usage that we could identify.

Switching to the SD menus took care of this since they only access the internet during guide updates. Needless to say, my parents don't do the streaming thing.


----------



## Jed1

pfiagra said:


> The HD menus are regularly downloading content (i.e., photos of shows as you navigate) separately from the guide data.
> 
> Some people don't have unlimited internet even at home (e.g., my parents). When I set them up with a Premiere, their internet usage shot up and they were close to going past their free limit. It is possible that there is another explanation, but this was the only change in internet usage that we could identify.
> 
> Switching to the SD menus took care of this since they only access the internet during guide updates. Needless to say, my parents don't do the streaming thing.


The reason the SD menus were on the Premiere is TiVo got caught with their pants down around their ankles as Digeo released the 3 tuner Moxi and the Moxi Mates before TiVo could get the Premiere finished.
The Moxi had a complete HD menu and also could stream live TV to a client box. It took TiVo 4 years to catch up with the streaming of live TV to a client box and TiVo still doesn't have a complete HD menu yet.

If TiVo would have been more vigilant in the past then the SD menus would have never existed on the Premieres at all. Most people used the SD menu because TiVos attempt at the HD menus stunk and did not work well with the Premiere hardware.
TiVo got lucky as Digeo did not sell many Moxis, so Digeo ended being bought up by Arris. This left TiVo as the only company making consumer DVRs.


----------



## JoeKustra

pfiagra said:


> The HD menus are regularly downloading content (i.e., photos of shows as you navigate) separately from the guide data.
> [..]


Interesting. I didn't know that. My ISP has some problems with equipment, but they do a good job with information:

Total Upstream: 0.593 GB (636214087 bytes). This is total data you sent to the Internet.
Total Downstream: 3.123 GB (3353251132 bytes). This is total data you downloaded from the Internet.
Total: 3.715 GB (3989465219 bytes). This is total data you sent to and downloaded from the Internet

That's my usage month to now. Last month I only used 5% of my data cap. I have a Roamio, Mini and Premiere and do a little streaming and a lot of watching but little channel surfing. I am retired so TV is something I use a lot, especially this winter. It's understandable that the thumbnails must be downloaded, but I'm amazed they would need so much data. BTW, the above use has an hourly graph too.

I need to disconnect my internet from the Roamio and see if it cares.


----------



## moyekj

Question for those that have the update. Are you forced to use the 3 pane view of My Shows with this software update? I don't like or use the extra categories in My Shows so I currently use the 2 pane view. From the demo videos I saw about the new Streaming options they were all using 3 pane view, so just wondering if 2 pane view is still an option?


----------



## pfiagra

moyekj said:


> Question for those that have the update. Are you forced to use the 3 pane view of My Shows with this software update? I don't like or use the extra categories in My Shows so I currently use the 2 pane view. From the demo videos I saw about the new Streaming options they were all using 3 pane view, so just wondering if 2 pane view is still an option?


Yes, you can still use the 2 pane view.


----------



## moyekj

pfiagra said:


> Yes, you can still use the 2 pane view.


 OK, great, thanks.


----------



## generaltso

I added streaming to a couple of my Recordings Only OnePasses, which made folders appear for them in My Shows as expected. I later set them back to Recording Only, but the folders are still there (with nothing in them). How do I get rid of the folders? Do I have to cancel the OnePasses and create them again?


----------



## lpwcomp

generaltso said:


> I added streaming to a couple of my Recordings Only OnePasses, which made folders appear for them in My Shows as expected. I later set them back to Recording Only, but the folders are still there (with nothing in them). How do I get rid of the folders? Do I have to cancel the OnePasses and create them again?


Delete the folder then reboot the TiVo.


----------



## Diana Collins

generaltso said:


> I added streaming to a couple of my Recordings Only OnePasses, which made folders appear for them in My Shows as expected. I later set them back to Recording Only, but the folders are still there (with nothing in them). How do I get rid of the folders? Do I have to cancel the OnePasses and create them again?


I think you would have to either delete each episode from the folder, or delete the folder itself (press 'Clear' with the folder highlighted in the Now Playing list).

ETA: What lpwcomp said.


----------



## generaltso

lpwcomp said:


> Delete the folder then reboot the TiVo.





Diana Collins said:


> I think you would have to either delete each episode from the folder, or delete the folder itself (press 'Clear' with the folder highlighted in the Now Playing list).
> 
> ETA: What lpwcomp said.


The episodes have already been deleted from the folder (it's empty). Deleting the folder doesn't work. But you're saying if I reboot the TiVo the folder will disappear?


----------



## lpwcomp

generaltso said:


> The episodes have already been deleted from the folder (it's empty). Deleting the folder doesn't work. But you're saying if I reboot the TiVo the folder will disappear?


Did for me.


----------



## generaltso

lpwcomp said:


> Did for me.


Thanks, I'll give it a try. If a reboot is really required to delete a folder, that must be a bug.


----------



## Diana Collins

I did a similar thing yesterday (added streaming episodes for which I had no recordings), and the folder disappeared on its own once I deleted the episodes.


----------



## generaltso

Diana Collins said:


> I did a similar thing yesterday (added streaming episodes for which I had no recordings), and the folder disappeared on its own once I deleted the episodes.


Weird. Did you still have the OnePass set?


----------



## lpwcomp

generaltso said:


> Thanks, I'll give it a try. If a reboot is really required to delete a folder, that must be a bug.


I agree that it's a bug, and it is a very odd one.


----------



## burdellgp

tatergator1 said:


> It's like a weird software bug where after a recording/suggestion completes, something makes a tuner default back to a specific channel.


I don't think it is a "bug" so much as maybe "unexpected behavior". I think that when TiVo changes the channel to record a suggestion, under some conditions it will change to the last manually tuned channel at the end of the recording. This kind of made sense back in the single-tuner days, as it made suggestions more "hidden" (in that if you left a TiVo on channel 62 before going to bed, it would probably still be on channel 62 when you got up in the morning, even if it recorded suggestions from other channels in between). With multiple tuners, it probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but it doesn't hurt anything (except for confusing people that look at what all their live TV tuners are doing  ).


----------



## generaltso

lpwcomp said:


> I agree that it's a bug, and it is a very odd one.


I haven't had a chance to reboot yet, but I tried deleting the OnePass entirely, and the folder still won't go away. I'll try to find a time to reboot it today.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Looks like the bug with the list always jumping back to the first show when looking at eps from either Upcoming or Wishlist has been fixed. When you back out of a show description it now returns back to the show you were looking at in the list. They also fixed the bug for pyTivo etc. where looking at shows in a share would always be ungrouped every time you went into it even if you had them set to group by folder.


----------



## lessd

Diana Collins said:


> At a minimum, that is how 20.4.6 works. I rebooted one of our Roamios yesterday and all tuners came up tuned to the channel that been on the foreground tuner before the reboot (in this case, HBO).


But if you come out of high power saving mode all ch will be on the lowest ch in your lineup.


----------



## JoeKustra

lessd said:


> But if you come out of high power saving mode all ch will be on the lowest ch in your lineup.


I'm still on 20.4.5c and after power cycle I come up to TiVo Central with the last channel in the window and all tuners on that channel. Interesting that it changed.


----------



## miker408

andyf said:


> +1
> 
> I always watch my shows oldest to newest. Now that's really not possible.


I have always used the GROUP On & OFF to navigate MY SHOWS to select which show to watch (usually oldest). At least my Minis have not been updated, Group on/off still works.


----------



## rgr

lessd said:


> But if you come out of high power saving mode all ch will be on the lowest ch in your lineup.


Odd. That's not how mine comes out of high power savings. After the Waking Up screen the channels are where they left off, but just with no buffer.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## The Merg

TiVoMargret said:


> This is by design. A folder "pops to the top" any time new content is available to you (either recorded or streaming). This means when Netflix releases the next season of 'House of Cards' your OnePass folder for it will appear at the top of a date-sorted My Shows.


Right. I was trying to answer someone as to why that happens. I wasn't complaining about it. 

- Merg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## epstewart

TiVoMargret said:


> We also consider the level of complication it adds to the user's experience, and how many people use the feature.


Looks like quite a few people have complained about not being able to set up multiple OnePasses for a given show, as was formerly possible with Season Pass. I can't believe there's no way to bring this capability back, simply because integrated support for streaming video has now been introduced ... I love OnePass, and I don't personally have a need for dual OnePasses, but I think those who do are right to complain ...


----------



## moonscape

I have a handful of OP to include streaming, but they're not all showing in order in 'my episodes' view, and some duplicating. Is there a reason for this or is it a bug? Example, Big Bang Theory in this order w/ S=streaming and R=recorded:

S ... S8 E1
S ... S8 E5
S ... S8 E6
S ... S8 E7
S ... S8 E12
S ... S8 E13
S ... S8 E14
R ... S8 E8
R ... S8 E14 (showing S and R of same episode in folder)

Also, there are two S7 episodes that show both streaming and recorded.

In 'all episodes' view they're correct.


----------



## bradleys

moonscape said:


> I have a handful of OP to include streaming, but they're not all showing in order in 'my episodes' view, and some duplicating. Is there a reason for this or is it a bug? Example, Big Bang Theory in this order w/ S=streaming and R=recorded:
> 
> S ... S8 E1
> S ... S8 E5
> S ... S8 E6
> S ... S8 E7
> S ... S8 E12
> S ... S8 E13
> S ... S8 E14
> R ... S8 E8
> R ... S8 E14 (showing S and R of same episode in folder)
> 
> Also, there are two S7 episodes that show both streaming and recorded.
> 
> In 'all episodes' view they're correct.


What is your sort order? (B button)

Date
Newest
Season


----------



## 59er

moyekj said:


> Question for those that have the update. Are you forced to use the 3 pane view of My Shows with this software update? I don't like or use the extra categories in My Shows so I currently use the 2 pane view. From the demo videos I saw about the new Streaming options they were all using 3 pane view, so just wondering if 2 pane view is still an option?


Although you CAN use the 2-pane view, the more crowded NPL may give you more reason to want the categories there. I use the TV Series category far more with the new software than ever before.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## moonscape

bradleys said:


> What is your sort order?


Season. I would expect that to mean by season first, episode second ... and for recording and streaming not to have any duplicating entries.


----------



## epstewart

nooneuknow said:


> ... thank you for thinking of those who use their TiVos differently than you do ...


You're welcome. I like to further the discussion, in hopes that TiVoMargaret and her people will find a way to fix things.


----------



## moyekj

59er said:


> Although you CAN use the 2-pane view, the more crowded NPL may give you more reason to want the categories there. I use the TV Series category far more with the new software than ever before.


I only record series from TV (no movies), so the categories are useless to me.


----------



## Leon WIlkinson

moonscape said:


> I have a handful of OP to include streaming, but they're not all showing in order in 'my episodes' view, and some duplicating. Is there a reason for this or is it a bug? Example, Big Bang Theory in this order w/ S=streaming and R=recorded:
> 
> S ... S8 E1
> S ... S8 E5
> S ... S8 E6
> S ... S8 E7
> S ... S8 E12
> S ... S8 E13
> S ... S8 E14
> R ... S8 E8
> R ... S8 E14 (showing S and R of same episode in folder)
> 
> Also, there are two S7 episodes that show both streaming and recorded.
> 
> In 'all episodes' view they're correct.


Most duplicating I see is caused by ratings in prime v netflix, other data differences will do the same.


----------



## elwaylite

It's funny that the website orders folders and shows fine by date under "My Shows" in your account, when you view what is on your Roamio. At least it is a somewhat simple working around for those of us with a lot of programs recorded.

Hopefully they leave the website alone...


----------



## Diana Collins

lessd said:


> But if you come out of high power saving mode all ch will be on the lowest ch in your lineup.


Nope...just woke up our Pro that has the high power saving mode enabled and the 6 tuners where all tuned to different channels. They look like the channels that were in use when it went into standby last night, and one tuner was set to MSNBC, which was used by the Mini in the bedroom early this morning.

Perhaps this behavior is dependent on the cablecard? We have Motorola cards from Verizon.


----------



## aaronwt

Diana Collins said:


> Nope...just woke up our Pro that has the high power saving mode enabled and the 6 tuners where all tuned to different channels. They look like the channels that were in use when it went into standby last night, and one tuner was set to MSNBC, which was used by the Mini in the bedroom early this morning.
> 
> Perhaps this behavior is dependent on the cablecard? We have Motorola cards from Verizon.


I'm on FiOS too with a Motorola Cable Card. I have seen the same behavior as you. Which is the expected behavior.


----------



## lpwcomp

According to the text on the "Power Saving Settings" screen, all the different levels control is the amount of idle time the TiVo waits before automatically going into standby.


----------



## Arcady

lpwcomp said:


> According to the text on the "Power Saving Settings" screen, all the different levels control is the amount of idle time the TiVo waits before automatically going into standby.


Not really. They also control if the TiVo will wake up the record suggestions or not. Did you read them?


----------



## lpwcomp

Arcady said:


> Not really. They also control if the TiVo will wake up the record suggestions or not. Did you read them?


Actually, I didn't read the text for the individual settings, just the global one. I turn off suggestions anyway. For those that do want suggestions recorded, it doesn't say is what it does if you put the TiVo in standby manually.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Jed1

If you reset your TiVo this will do a soft reset of the CableCard and when the box restarts all the tuners will be on the channel it was tuned to before the reset.
If all the tuners is on the lowest channel in the CableCard line up then the box lost power for more than a minute which in turn does a hard reset on the CableCard. The reason it does this is once the power is removed the card will become unpaired from the host as the OOB (Out of Band) messages has stopped. Once the power is restored then the card will receive the OOB messages from the head end and will repair the card and it will start to function.

There is two ways to see the uptime of the card.
1. Go to the DVR diagnostics and go past all the data for the tuners and in the look for the "time from OOB tune start". It will show the time in seconds.
2. Go to the CableCard diagnostics and select the Status menu. On the top line you will see "uptime". This will tell the days, hours, minutes that the card has been up and running since the last soft or hard reset.
If you go to the Network section of the CableCard menu you can see the OOB message counter. You can make the counter update by continuously hitting the select button. If you loss the OOB messages then the card will no longer function.

I am wondering if this problem is only happening on the base Roamio model as it has an external power supply. Those that say they have no issue are using the Plus/Pro Roamios which has an internal power supply.
If it is only the base model then TiVo will have to disable this feature or have a new unit made with an internal power supply.

Power loss is the only explanation that I can think of that will cause the card to do a hard reset, so I would safely speculate that the issue is related to a power supply problem caused by the new power saving software.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Jed1

nooneuknow said:


> Uh, huh, what? Where did this all come from?
> 
> The Plus and Pro merely have an internal supply, putting out the same 12V, at a higher amp rating. The leads to the board are 12V, then are downregulated right on the mainboard, just as the base and OTA Roamios do with the 12V that comes in via wall-wart, with a lesser amperage rating.


The only thing that will cause all the tuners to be tuned to the lowest channel is a power loss that is long enough to cause the CableCard to do a hard reset.
Other than that it will be somebody doing the hard reset at the cable company.
Since people are reporting this with the new software then it has to be related to the box losing power long enough to have the hard reset occur.
Of the people that say they do not have this issue when using the power saving features, they all have the Plus/Pro models.
This makes me wonder if this is related to the base model since it has an external power supply. 
I am not saying this is the problem but suggesting that this maybe the issue.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Arcady

nooneuknow said:


> All of my Roamios always resume to the channels last on each tuner, and always default to all tuners on the last foreground channel, in the event of a reboot, or even extended loss of power.


I do not plan to use any of the low power modes, but as a test I decided to see what happens after standby. My Roamio Pro goes back to all of the same channels it was on before standby. When there is a reboot, all tuners are on the same channel, which is usually a low numbered channel. (I haven't determined if this was the last viewed channel or not.) I do not have power loss, because I use a UPS, like everyone with a TiVo should do.

I have a Motorola M card and no tuning adapter in both of my TiVos. By the way, my Elite/XL4 does the same thing with the channels for standby and reboot.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Arcady

nooneuknow said:


> By "low channel", do you mean the lowest number in your lineup, or just happened to not be a high number?


Lowest in "channels you receive." Not actual lowest.


----------



## HazelW

nooneuknow said:


> Ok, that's better.
> 
> I will try to see if I can spot the same pattern you are seeing. If I can, and the sample size is large enough, I'll have something to say on it. I've been following the subject closely, and haven't seen enough to draw any substantial conclusions, or many educated guesses.
> 
> The power supplies are not being switched-off, or even placed into another state. By design, if 120VAC is coming in, 12VDC is coming out, no matter the model. The only difference, is that the 12V line on the base/OTA models can be manually unplugged, without opening the cover.
> 
> TiVos use the most simple design for their power supplies as they can. If anything is being done with the power, it would be on the mainboard. Unless TiVo thought way ahead, when designing the circuitry, I doubt even the lower voltages are being changed in any way.
> 
> For the record, I have three base Roamios, and have swapped in 2.5A bricks from Cisco TAs, in place of the 2.0A wall-warts (now running my TAs). I don't just do things like that without attempting to verify that I'm not pushing any safety margins, should something like a hard drive fault (or accidental short circuit) create a large increase in current draw. So, I know quite a bit on the matter, as I also repair power supplies regularly, in a variety of things.
> 
> All of my Roamios always resume to the channels last on each tuner, and always default to all tuners on the last foreground channel, in the event of a reboot, or even extended loss of power.
> 
> The behavior people see is just as much, likely more, going to vary based on the cablecard brand, firmware, cable provider, regional market, and how the cablecard is programmed to handle cold/warm reboots, change of operational states, loss of power, etc.


So what difference does it make what channels it comes back on? Does it affect anything important?


----------



## randrake

I didn't see this but since the Roamio and Mini got the update, I can now switch tuners on the Mini and see what the Roamio has able to be rewound.

Since I DVR Gotham and Sleepy Hollow, one of my tuners was on Fox. This morning I turn on the tv with the Mini and it's on another station. I switch to the local Fox to watch the morning news and it actually just switched to that tuner and I could rewind it back about an hour or so. Prior to the update it would just switch whatever random tuner it had to the channel.

I was kind of shocked by this because I didn't notice anything saying this welcomed change happened.


----------



## HarperVision

randrake said:


> I didn't see this but since the Roamio and Mini got the update, I can now switch tuners on the Mini and see what the Roamio has able to be rewound. Since I DVR Gotham and Sleepy Hollow, one of my tuners was on Fox. This morning I turn on the tv with the Mini and it's on another station. I switch to the local Fox to watch the morning news and it actually just switched to that tuner and I could rewind it back about an hour or so. Prior to the update it would just switch whatever random tuner it had to the channel. I was kind of shocked by this because I didn't notice anything saying this welcomed change happened.


Wow good find if true! I'll have to mess with it too. So you just use the right arrow and go down to the circles to see what's on the host Roamio?


----------



## heifer624

Not working on my Mini.


----------



## lessd

heifer624 said:


> Not working on my Mini.


I would guess the connected Roamio can't be in standby mode.


----------



## heifer624

Not working


----------



## joewom

HarperVision said:


> Wow good find if true! I'll have to mess with it too. So you just use the right arrow and go down to the circles to see what's on the host Roamio?


I have seen this happen before the update. If the Roamio is tuned to a channel but not being actively watched or recorded it will use the tuner that is already on a channel you want. It doesn't happen often though. Could just be a pure luck if you are tuned to that channel allot.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## randrake

HarperVision said:


> Wow good find if true! I'll have to mess with it too. So you just use the right arrow and go down to the circles to see what's on the host Roamio?


I just changed the channel to the local Fox from the channel it was on when I hit the Live TV button. Then noticed it was able to rewind. I did find the channel I was on and the local Fox were not the active ones on the Roamio when I turned it on. So they were both channels not actively being watched if that TV with the Roamio was on.

I just checked it again. And got the same results.

So to pause in one room and watch in another is now possible for live tv without having to hit record.

If watching a show on tuner 1 (active tuner) and you want to continue watching in other room on Mini do the following:

Change to a different tuner by doing the right arrow and down arrow so the show you want to continue in another room is on a different tuner than the Roamio TV is on.

Go to the other room and hit the live TV button on the Mini.

Then just change to the channel number of the show you were watching on the Roamio.

Mini will have whatever amount of time you can rewind to. It will act like that is the tuner you picked from the Roamio to watch on the Mini. No more random and if you change the channel not have full rewind capacity from the Roamio.

Oh and I have a Roamio Plus but don't see why this won't work with the Basic. But this only worked since I got the new update on both the Roamio and Mini.


----------



## randrake

joewom said:


> I have seen this happen before the update. If the Roamio is tuned to a channel but not being actively watched or recorded it will use the tuner that is already on a channel you want. It doesn't happen often though. Could just be a pure luck if you are tuned to that channel allot.


I've tried before both were updated and it would basically lock the tuner and change the channel. Then when I released it back to the Roamio by not watching and go to the TiVo Central, I'd then have two tuners on the same channel on the Roamio.

Now when I do it and it uses that unused tuner then I still only have one tuner on that channel as well. But again the only time it doesn't work for me now is if the channel being changed to is the same channel the active viewing tuner on the Roamio is that same channel.


----------



## Bytez

Is there a shortcut to resume viewing a recorded video after going to the menu while it's in progress? Right now, I have to through multiple menus to "Resume" from "My Shows" list.


----------



## HarperVision

randrake said:


> I just changed the channel to the local Fox from the channel it was on when I hit the Live TV button. Then noticed it was able to rewind. I did find the channel I was on and the local Fox were not the active ones on the Roamio when I turned it on. So they were both channels not actively being watched if that TV with the Roamio was on. I just checked it again. And got the same results. So to pause in one room and watch in another is now possible for live tv without having to hit record. If watching a show on tuner 1 (active tuner) and you want to continue watching in other room on Mini do the following: Change to a different tuner by doing the right arrow and down arrow so the show you want to continue in another room is on a different tuner than the Roamio TV is on. Go to the other room and hit the live TV button on the Mini. Then just change to the channel number of the show you were watching on the Roamio. Mini will have whatever amount of time you can rewind to. It will act like that is the tuner you picked from the Roamio to watch on the Mini. No more random and if you change the channel not have full rewind capacity from the Roamio. Oh and I have a Roamio Plus but don't see why this won't work with the Basic. But this only worked since I got the new update on both the Roamio and Mini.


Sweet! I'll have to go try it after the family is off the minis tonight.


----------



## CinciDVR

randrake said:


> If watching a show on tuner 1 (active tuner) and you want to continue watching in other room on Mini do the following:
> 
> Change to a different tuner by doing the right arrow and down arrow so the show you want to continue in another room is on a different tuner than the Roamio TV is on.
> 
> Go to the other room and hit the live TV button on the Mini.
> 
> Then just change to the channel number of the show you were watching on the Roamio.
> 
> Mini will have whatever amount of time you can rewind to. It will act like that is the tuner you picked from the Roamio to watch on the Mini. No more random and if you change the channel not have full rewind capacity from the Roamio.


This worked before your update. At least it works for me and I haven't received the update yet.


----------



## HarperVision

CinciDVR said:


> This worked before your update. At least it works for me and I haven't received the update yet.


Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure I recall trying to do this exact thing on my minis not long ago. I hit right arrow then arrow down but no circles showing other tuners. Are you sure?


----------



## tatergator1

Bytez said:


> Is there a shortcut to resume viewing a recorded video after going to the menu while it's in progress? Right now, I have to through multiple menus to "Resume" from "My Shows" list.


If the show is still in the preview window, just hit the "Zoom" button. Shows on the local box should stay in the window as you browse the menus.

However, if you have more than one Tivo and you are streaming a show from a different box, you'll typically lose it in the preview window when you enter enter the menus and have to re-navigate back to it to continue watching it.


----------



## aaronwt

tatergator1 said:


> If the show is still in the preview window, just hit the "Zoom" button. Shows on the local box should stay in the window as you browse the menus.
> 
> However, if you have more than one Tivo and you are streaming a show from a different box, you'll typically lose it in the preview window when you enter enter the menus and have to re-navigate back to it to continue watching it.


If I go to other menus, when I come back out the program will continue playing or will still be paused. This is even if I go into the old menus that are still SD that have no preview window.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

HarperVision said:


> Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure I recall trying to do this exact thing on my minis not long ago. I hit right arrow then arrow down but no circles showing other tuners. Are you sure?


Not a big deal for me because I never watch live TV in the mini, but I tried this just now on my updated Mini and I also don't see the other tuners.


----------



## lessd

HarperVision said:


> Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure I recall trying to do this exact thing on my minis not long ago. I hit right arrow then arrow down but no circles showing other tuners. Are you sure?


I never saw this on the Mini, before or after the update, just tested this last night, I can't see any other channels as I can on the Roamio itself.


----------



## randrake

CinciDVR said:


> This worked before your update. At least it works for me and I haven't received the update yet.


It didn't for me. I did it before both got the update and the Mini would just change whatever tuner it was first using to the channel. Then when I release it back to the Roamio, it would have two tuners on the same channel.


----------



## randrake

HarperVision said:


> Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure I recall trying to do this exact thing on my minis not long ago. I hit right arrow then arrow down but no circles showing other tuners. Are you sure?


It doesn't show the other tuners on the Mini itself. What I am speaking of is knowing what channel you want to watch on the Mini in the other room that you started watching on the Roamio.

Example:

You are watching USA Network on the Roamio in the living room. You want to finish watching the show in the bedroom with the Mini. You change the Roamio to another tuner showing HBO. You go to the Mini and it autopicks a tuner currently set to Showtime. You change the channel to USA Network and it just starts using that tuner instead.

Before I did that and it would change the tuner on Showtime thus no rewind because it would be a new selection on that tuner. Then releasing the tuner back to the Roamio and it would have two tuners on USA Network. One would be the tuner originally on USA Network and now a second that was formerly on Showtime.

EDIT: And I did this switching back and forth between tuners not currently used by Roamio as "currently viewing". My local Fox is 804 and GSN is 742. Roamio had those as two tuners not as "currently using tuner". I was switching on the Mini back and forth watching two shows but rewinding back through commercials on the Mini on both channels. I did type in the numbers and not use the channel guide to navigate and pressing select. I don't know if it makes a difference as I just knew what the channel numbers I needed.


----------



## philt56

randrake said:


> It doesn't show the other tuners on the Mini itself. What I am speaking of is knowing what channel you want to watch on the Mini in the other room that you started watching on the Roamio.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You are watching USA Network on the Roamio in the living room. You want to finish watching the show in the bedroom with the Mini. You change the Roamio to another tuner showing HBO. You go to the Mini and it autopicks a tuner currently set to Showtime. You change the channel to USA Network and it just starts using that tuner instead.
> 
> Before I did that and it would change the tuner on Showtime thus no rewind because it would be a new selection on that tuner. Then releasing the tuner back to the Roamio and it would have two tuners on USA Network. One would be the tuner originally on USA Network and now a second that was formerly on Showtime.
> 
> EDIT: And I did this switching back and forth between tuners not currently used by Roamio as "currently viewing". My local Fox is 804 and GSN is 742. Roamio had those as two tuners not as "currently using tuner". I was switching on the Mini back and forth watching two shows but rewinding back through commercials on the Mini on both channels. I did type in the numbers and not use the channel guide to navigate and pressing select. I don't know if it makes a difference as I just knew what the channel numbers I needed.


That's interesting. You would think the better way to do this would have the mini show all tuners and if you selected one in use, it would give a warning. So there's no way for two rooms to watch the same show/tuner?

I also think it's kind of clunky to have to hit tivo button on the mini so I can resume watching on the roamio. I guess they want to make sure people in different rooms don't affect each other.


----------



## DoubleDAZ

randrake said:


> It doesn't show the other tuners on the Mini itself. What I am speaking of is knowing what channel you want to watch on the Mini in the other room that you started watching on the Roamio.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You are watching USA Network on the Roamio in the living room. You want to finish watching the show in the bedroom with the Mini. You change the Roamio to another tuner showing HBO. You go to the Mini and it autopicks a tuner currently set to Showtime. You change the channel to USA Network and it just starts using that tuner instead.


Thanks for the clarification, I get it now.


----------



## HarperVision

DoubleDAZ said:


> Thanks for the clarification, I get it now.


Ditto :up:


----------



## moonscape

I had two SNLs recorded from some time ago: one in a Kevin Spacey folder, and another not sure where it was. Last night I marked 6 to record out of a current marathon, and this morning there was a Saturday Night Live folder with 8 recordings in it but the folder number indicated 2.

First time I've ever had a wrong episode count for a folder - is this a bug in 20.4.6 ?


----------



## moonscape

moonscape said:


> I had two SNLs recorded from some time ago: one in a Kevin Spacey folder, and another not sure where it was. Last night I marked 6 to record out of a current marathon, and this morning there was a Saturday Night Live folder with 8 recordings in it but the folder number indicated 2.
> 
> First time I've ever had a wrong episode count for a folder - is this a bug in 20.4.6 ?


Okay, this afternoon I watched an episode from the folder. After deleting that episode, the folder showed a correct count of 7 episodes. Now, it's recording another episode, and the folder has fallen back to a count of 3 episodes.


----------



## 59er

Bytez said:


> Is there a shortcut to resume viewing a recorded video after going to the menu while it's in progress? Right now, I have to through multiple menus to "Resume" from "My Shows" list.





tatergator1 said:


> If the show is still in the preview window, just hit the "Zoom" button. Shows on the local box should stay in the window as you browse the menus.
> 
> However, if you have more than one Tivo and you are streaming a show from a different box, you'll typically lose it in the preview window when you enter enter the menus and have to re-navigate back to it to continue watching it.





aaronwt said:


> If I go to other menus, when I come back out the program will continue playing or will still be paused. This is even if I go into the old menus that are still SD that have no preview window.


I use the HDUI, but don't use the preview window. As long as you've just left the recording and not used a streaming service or jumped to a new video source, the Zoom button should take you back to whatever recording or live TV you were last watching. This is the best fix for an accidental TiVo button press.


----------



## aaronwt

randrake said:


> It doesn't show the other tuners on the Mini itself. What I am speaking of is knowing what channel you want to watch on the Mini in the other room that you started watching on the Roamio.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You are watching USA Network on the Roamio in the living room. You want to finish watching the show in the bedroom with the Mini. You change the Roamio to another tuner showing HBO. You go to the Mini and it autopicks a tuner currently set to Showtime. You change the channel to USA Network and it just starts using that tuner instead.
> 
> Before I did that and it would change the tuner on Showtime thus no rewind because it would be a new selection on that tuner. Then releasing the tuner back to the Roamio and it would have two tuners on USA Network. One would be the tuner originally on USA Network and now a second that was formerly on Showtime.
> 
> EDIT: And I did this switching back and forth between tuners not currently used by Roamio as "currently viewing". My local Fox is 804 and GSN is 742. Roamio had those as two tuners not as "currently using tuner". I was switching on the Mini back and forth watching two shows but rewinding back through commercials on the Mini on both channels. I did type in the numbers and not use the channel guide to navigate and pressing select. I don't know if it makes a difference as I just knew what the channel numbers I needed.


It's easier to hit record. When you go to watch the program from another TiVo or Mini then you will continue watching from where where you left off. No need to mess around with what tuner is on what channel.


----------



## randrake

aaronwt said:


> It's easier to hit record. When you go to watch the program from another TiVo or Mini then you will continue watching from where where you left off. No need to mess around with what tuner is on what channel.


And what do you do if you wanted to watch two or three or up to 5 different ones on the Mini? You'd have to hit record on each one. This way doesn't take up drive space btw.

Plus seen where people had posted they wanted to have more control over what tuner the Mini would be using so posted that. If you don't care about that, it's fine but it was said to help those who wanted more control over what tuner the Mini would be using when they hit "Live TV".


----------



## aaronwt

randrake said:


> And what do you do if you wanted to watch two or three or up to 5 different ones on the Mini? You'd have to hit record on each one. This way doesn't take up drive space btw.
> 
> Plus seen where people had posted they wanted to have more control over what tuner the Mini would be using so posted that. If you don't care about that, it's fine but it was said to help those who wanted more control over what tuner the Mini would be using when they hit "Live TV".


Drive space? The TiVo will delete the content automatically. Or you can manually delete it you really want to. By recording the content it doesn't matter what tuner is in use. And you don't have to worry about an errant button press. One wrong button press with Live TV and you can go to another channel and lose any buffer you had on the old channel. By recording anything you might watch it avoids all of those issues and makes things many,many times simpler.


----------



## randrake

aaronwt said:


> Drive space? The TiVo will delete the content automatically. Or you can manually delete it you really want to. By recording the content it doesn't matter what tuner is in use. And you don't have to worry about an errant button press. One wrong button press with Live TV and you can go to another channel and lose any buffer you had on the old channel. By recording anything you might watch it avoids all of those issues and makes things many,many times simpler.


Yes, taking up space like if you are near capacity already and you are talking more than just 2 tuners you want to go between. But to each their own. It's rather silly to even continue down this path. You continue doing it your way and I'll continue mine.
Plus there is this to avoid the accidental.



worachj said:


> Once you have the two tuners setup correctly, you can just hit the Enter/Last button and toggle between the two tuners. You have to first manually select the two tuners using methods explained above.


But let everyone decide for themselves on which of the pros vs cons they rather do. This is rather a silly debate since it's giving alternative and also information. If you don't want to do it, nobody is forcing you. Is that fine?


----------



## leiff

RoyK said:


> A screen saver had a function ( to 'save' screens from burn-in of a static image) back in the ancient days of stone tools and CRT displays. Today's screen aren't subject to that damage so screen savers aren't necessary even though they may be kind of neat as peasant amazers


the screen saver would be nice for my plasma TVs, but having the new power saving feature in HI mode is almost as good or better since the screen blacks out entirely


----------



## china73

Does this update fix the TIVO mini hang issue when using IP control ? at the end of watching a recording if you try to select up/down tivo will hang for 2 minutes ; this happens when using 3rd party ip control


----------



## wmcbrine

china73 said:


> Does this update fix the TIVO mini hang issue when using IP control ? at the end of watching a recording if you try to select up/down tivo will hang for 2 minutes ; this happens when using 3rd party ip control


I think you'll find that this only happens on a certain type of recording: webcasts, or files transferred to the TiVo via pyTivo or TD. Also, it's not limited to the Mini.


----------



## Keen

Got an email from Tivo explaining OnePass and that it'll be on my Roamio soon. Sounds like the last of the rollout is upon us.


----------



## zaphodbeeblebrox

Keen said:


> Got an email from Tivo explaining OnePass and that it'll be on my Roamio soon. Sounds like the last of the rollout is upon us.


Got the same email early this morning (here's the web view of it): http://messaging.tivo.com/Portal/co...6664570302549221435&siteNodeId=13456&b=351388


----------



## ajwees41

Keen said:


> Got an email from Tivo explaining OnePass and that it'll be on my Roamio soon. Sounds like the last of the rollout is upon us.


so hopefully premiers will be next


----------



## uw69

crap, pending restart on my Roamio. Not looking fwd to onepass.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Bug or As Intended?

When Sorting My Shows between Date and Name, The list highlighted show reverts to the top and does not stay on the Show or Show folder you were on.


----------



## Bytez

I wish they made it easier to put the Tivo on Standby with the remote. Maybe long press the Tivo icon or make it on the first menu in Tivo Central.


----------



## Arcady

Standby is worthless. 

And you can turn on power saving modes in 20.4.6 if you really want to kill your hard disk faster with a bunch of unnecessary starts/stops of an AV drive that was built to run 24/7.


----------



## randian

Arcady said:


> Standby is worthless.
> 
> And you can turn on power saving modes in 20.4.6 if you really want to kill your hard disk faster with a bunch of unnecessary starts/stops of an AV drive that was built to run 24/7.


Low isn't worthless. Automatic standby is great plus it shouldn't spin down the disk.


----------



## epstewart

randian said:


> Low isn't worthless. Automatic standby is great plus it shouldn't spin down the disk.


Where is there a guide to what the various power saving settings do?


----------



## dianebrat

epstewart said:


> Where is there a guide to what the various power saving settings do?


The settings screen for them gives you summaries of each mode, and there's a thread dedicated just to the power saving modes at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=525223


----------



## lpwcomp

Arcady said:


> Standby is worthless.


Standby didn't used to be "worthless". A TiVo in standby did not record the EAS messages.


----------



## earlgray

Any word on premiere updates? I should be on the priority list, but haven't seen anything come my way.

Thank You


----------



## bradleys

Tweet from Margret says they should know more next week:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/567891692814086144


----------



## NorthAlabama

earlgray said:


> Any word on premiere updates? I should be on the priority list, but haven't seen anything come my way.


still tbd until further notice per tivo...


----------



## epstewart

dianebrat said:


> The settings screen for them gives you summaries of each mode, and there's a thread dedicated just to the power saving modes at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=525223


Thanks, but I already looked at the Settings screen, and it says nothing about which choices do and do not spin down the disk drive, or how soon, or how often.

I already looked at the thread you mentioned  and thanks for providing the link  but it seems like just a lot of speculation. Nothing official. I'm hoping to locate some official information from TiVo Central.


----------



## epstewart

bradleys said:


> Tweet from Margret says they should know more next week:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/567891692814086144


I have the same question regarding the Mini. While my Roamio Plus got the update weeks ago, my Mini hasn't received it (nor has my Premiere). I believe my Media Access Key is registered for priority updates, which should cover all three of my TiVo units, no?


----------



## Arcady

lpwcomp said:


> Standby didn't used to be "worthless". A TiVo in standby did not record the EAS messages.


I've seen exactly two of these in 10 years.


----------



## sathead

Arcady said:


> ...you can turn on power saving modes in 20.4.6 if you really want to kill your hard disk faster with a bunch of unnecessary starts/stops of an AV drive that was built to run 24/7.


We only record three one hour shows per week currently.
So 3-6 hrs of spinning the HD vs 168 hrs without spindown sounds pretty good to me.

To light users like us- we may actually be at the point where SSD's could actually work since 24/7 buffering is no longer employed by choice.


----------



## NorthAlabama

Arcady said:


> I've seen exactly two of these in 10 years.


with comcast we have weekly tests, sometimes more. at least now most come between 2am & 6am, but they used to air them throughout the day, multiple times each week, sometimes multiple times each afternoon.

i eventually wrote complaint emails to the fcc and comcast when actual alerts had become so bad during a few months time span a a year or so ago. one night there were 5 rain warnings in about an hour, almost every ten minutes...during primetime...for thunderstorms - no floods, no tornados, just lightening and rain.


----------



## JoeKustra

epstewart said:


> I have the same question regarding the Mini. While my Roamio Plus got the update weeks ago, my Mini hasn't received it (nor has my Premiere). I believe my Media Access Key is registered for priority updates, which should cover all three of my TiVo units, no?


I thought it used the TSN. Anyhow, my Roamio and Mini received the update on Monday. Only my Premiere is on the hot list and that has been delayed.


----------



## JoeKustra

Arcady said:


> I've seen exactly two of these in 10 years.


I get one monthly and one weekly. It's by county, so says the message. Philly, being the home of Comcast, probably doesn't have any emergencies anyhow.


----------



## tatergator1

Arcady said:


> I've seen exactly two of these in 10 years.


Consider yourself lucky. My system runs EAS tests at least 2 times per week in the early morning hours.


----------



## HarperVision

JoeKustra said:


> I get one monthly and one weekly. It's by county, so says the message. Philly, being the home of Comcast, probably doesn't have any emergencies anyhow.


Yes they do! Every once in awhile Pat's and/or Gino's runs out of cheese whiz for their cheesesteaks!!!


----------



## L David Matheny

FWIW, my OTA-only 4-tuner Roamio got hit with 20.4.6 this afternoon. I wasn't on the priority list, so this must be the general rollout. Most of my season passes (multiple per show) were converted to single all-channel OnePasses. Season passes that weren't multiple are still single-channel. We'll see how much trouble is caused by poor choice of recording channels with no prioritizing. The most obvious pie in the face so far is having no option to ungroup My Shows. That will probably make watching shows in broadcast order somewhat more cumbersome.


----------



## ajwees41

epstewart said:


> I have the same question regarding the Mini. While my Roamio Plus got the update weeks ago, my Mini hasn't received it (nor has my Premiere). I believe my Media Access Key is registered for priority updates, which should cover all three of my TiVo units, no?


It's the TiVo service number each on is different the media access key is not used.


----------



## epstewart

ajwees41 said:


> It's the TiVo service number each on is different the media access key is not used.


That explains it, then. Thanks. I'll register my Mini's TSN for priority updating now.


----------



## Keen

Just got the update on my Roamio that was not on the priority list. I look forward to playing with it this weekend.


----------



## CG_Allred

L David Matheny said:


> The most obvious pie in the face so far is having no option to ungroup My Shows. That will probably make watching shows in broadcast order somewhat more cumbersome.


Instead of "somewhat more cumbersome" try "an exercise in nightly frustration". I've seen other folks on this thread express surprise at those of us who watch shows in broadcast order, labelling it an "archaic" way of watching TV. But it is still a valid way of doing things, even with up to 154 hours of HD programming (as my Roamio Plus is reporting).

When my wife gets back from her business trip and I have to explain to her why the way we've been watching TV for years is no longer going to work I'm going to get the "technology problems are somehow your fault" look, I just know it.


----------



## dianebrat

CG_Allred said:


> Instead of "somewhat more cumbersome" try "an exercise in nightly frustration". *I've seen other folks on this thread express surprise at those of us who watch shows in broadcast order, labelling it an "archaic" way of watching TV. *But it is still a valid way of doing things, even with up to 154 hours of HD programming (as my Roamio Plus is reporting).


I think you're misinterpreting, they're not saying that watching episodes in broadcast order is "archaic" it was in response to saying they watch multiple series in order of recording like "Mondays shows first, Tuesdays shows second, Wednesdays shows third, etc. I also find that a bit different,

I watch my favorites first and then the shows lower in the pecking order. I do watch shows that I follow recaps online closer to recording dates so I can participate in social discussions about them.


----------



## RoyK

dianebrat said:


> I think you're misinterpreting, they're not saying that watching episodes in broadcast order is "archaic" it was in response to saying they watch multiple series in order of recording like "Mondays shows first, Tuesdays shows second, Wednesdays shows third, etc. I also find that a bit different,
> 
> I watch my favorites first and then the shows lower in the pecking order. I do watch shows that I follow recaps online closer to recording dates so I can participate in social discussions about them.


I watch in order of how the mood strikes also but one in my family belongs to the Monday then Tuesday club. The day before yesterday she was perfectly happy. Now quite frustrated.


----------



## JoeKustra

This may sound stupid, but I watch them in network order. That doesn't apply to a season of saved episodes, but I find that network shows usually fit a mold that their shows fall into and that let's my mind get used to them. CBS is usually serious, ABC not so much. BTW, I record prime time during the week and watch the recordings on weekends. And it's just me doing the watching so I only have make myself happy. Call me a slightly "insane" binge watcher. But in my defense I don't use Netflix or Amazon.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Arcady said:


> I've seen exactly two of these in 10 years.


And we see one at least monthly, for the so-called 'monthly' tests. More importantly, they completely trash the recording when it happens. And that's not even counting the regular Amber alerts.


----------



## gregbennett

Add me to the group that misses being able to ungroup shows. I basically record everything and then transfer a lot of it off the TiVo for later editing and watching. After I transfer the shows I turn groups off and go down the My Shows list and hit delete in a matter of seconds. Now I have to go into each shows folder to delete them.

Luckily my Premiere has not been updated yet so I can still get the Roamio's ungrouped list there.


----------



## L David Matheny

gregbennett said:


> Luckily my Premiere has not been updated yet so I can still get the Roamio's ungrouped list there.


Interestingly, when I view my Premiere's My Shows list from within my Roamio's My Shows list, I can still ungroup those shows, but the setting doesn't seem to stick, since backing out to the Roamio's shows and then reentering turns grouping back on. And I assume this ungrouping ability will go away when the Premiere finally receives the 20.4.6 update.

It almost looks like TiVo just arbitrarily disabled the deselection of grouping. I don't know what would happen if groups were enabled together with streaming options, but I'm guessing that the Roamio wouldn't catch fire or anything. As others have suggested, I wish TiVo could allow the "C" button to ungroup shows and simply not display streaming items in that view. It sounds pretty simple anyway.


----------



## GmanTiVo

Roamio Pro + 3Minis

After reading this whole thread I do not wish to upgrade to 20.4.6 at the present time.

I have a simple question: can I block the update / upgrade?

Gman


----------



## RoyK

GmanTiVo said:


> Roamio Pro + 3Minis
> 
> After reading this whole thread I do not wish to upgrade to 20.4.6 at the present time.
> 
> I have a simple question: can I block the update / upgrade?
> 
> Gman


I'm with you. I have it and would go back in a heartbeat were it possible. Unfortunately the answer is no


----------



## JoeKustra

GmanTiVo said:


> Roamio Pro + 3Minis
> 
> After reading this whole thread I do not wish to upgrade to 20.4.6 at the present time.
> 
> I have a simple question: can I block the update / upgrade?
> 
> Gman


I wish too. I see a slowdown on the Mini when the Roamio is in standby due to power saver. It is probably just the standby, but I won't be using it anymore.


----------



## dianebrat

RoyK said:


> I watch in order of how the mood strikes also but one in my family belongs to the Monday then Tuesday club. The day before yesterday she was perfectly happy. Now quite frustrated.


It stumps me to even think someone would do that, but then that's why there's chocolate and vanilla, I LOVE..* LOVE* the fact that I can watch higher value items like Peggy Carter same day sans commercials, then get to Castle later in the week, it'd never make sense to me to watch Castle first just because it was broadcast a day earlier.

Wasn't "TV your way" a onetime Tivo tag line?


----------



## RoyK

dianebrat said:


> It stumps me to even think someone would do that, but then that's why there's chocolate and vanilla, I LOVE..* LOVE* the fact that I can watch higher value items like Peggy Carter same day sans commercials, then get to Castle later in the week, it'd never make sense to me to watch Castle first just because it was broadcast a day earlier.
> 
> Wasn't "TV your way" a onetime Tivo tag line?


Yep where I'd go straight for Castle and Agent Carter would have a couple of thumbs down.

Seems to me that they did. Or maybe it was Burger King with something similar.


----------



## wmcbrine

Arcady said:


> Standby is worthless.


Standby has never been worthless, and is less so now than ever. Here's another benefit, with 20.4.6: Reduced noise level. My Roamio is in my bedroom, so I value this.

What I don't get is why the new Power Savings Settings screen says you can enter Standby manually by going to "Settings & Messages > Settings > DVR & Accessories > Power Saving Settings" -- which isn't even right -- when really it's just "Settings & Messages > Standby". (Which is still one level too many, but anyway.)


----------



## Arcady

wmcbrine said:


> Standby has never been worthless, and is less so now than ever.


To me it is more worthless these days. If I want to watch XOD on a Mini, and the Roamio is sleeping, I can't. That's just dumb.

I don't remember the last time I looked at the Roamio and the record light was not on. It is almost always recording something.

I don't really get the point anyway. All this fuss to save $10 a year in power bills? Who cares?


----------



## DeltaOne

I've been okay with the 20.4.6 changes but now have two empty folders I can't delete. They were new OnePass entries that I inadvertently created with "recordings and streaming" when I meant only "recordings." 

I've re-read most of this thread but don't see how to delete these empty folders. I've changed the OnePass entries to recordings only. Do I need to force a connection to TiVo HQ? Reboot the Roamio? Sacrifice a chicken?


----------



## bradleys

DeltaOne said:


> I've been okay with the 20.4.6 changes but now have two empty folders I can't delete. They were new OnePass entries that I inadvertently created with "recordings and streaming" when I meant only "recordings."
> 
> I've re-read most of this thread but don't see how to delete these empty folders. I've changed the OnePass entries to recordings only. Do I need to force a connection to TiVo HQ? Reboot the Roamio? Sacrifice a chicken?


It should just drop away... That is weird, I have change and changed back several. You could go into manage OnePass and delete it all together and recreate it, but if you don't have streaming selected it should drop on its own.

Do you have the IOS app? Can you take a screen shot of the 1P settings?


----------



## wmcbrine

Arcady said:


> If I want to watch XOD on a Mini, and the Roamio is sleeping, I can't. That's just dumb.


I had to look up "XOD" -- Xfinity on Demand? That sounds like a bug, and a real reason to avoid Standby, yes. But, it doesn't apply to me.



> _I don't really get the point anyway. All this fuss to save $10 a year in power bills? Who cares?_


And I don't get the point of people taking more time to post about how worthless Standby supposedly is, than it would to put their TiVos in Standby. It's no fuss at all. I do it automatically, every time I leave my TiVo, and I have done for years. I've even trained my mother to do it. It only takes a few seconds. I mean, I know people are lazy, but come on.


----------



## DeltaOne

bradleys said:


> It should just drop away... That is weird, I have change and changed back several. You could go into manage OnePass and delete it all together and recreate it, but if you don't have streaming selected it should drop on its own.
> 
> Do you have the IOS app? Can you take a screen shot of the 1P settings?


I deleted one of the OnePass entries. Here's the other one, for the Durst show on HBO.


----------



## Arcady

wmcbrine said:


> And I don't get the point of people taking more time to post about how worthless Standby supposedly is, than it would to put their TiVos in Standby. It's no fuss at all. I do it automatically, every time I leave my TiVo, and I have done for years. I've even trained my mother to do it. It only takes a few seconds. I mean, I know people are lazy, but come on.


Nope.
I want the buffer there when I turn on the TV.
I want the TiVo alive when I connect to it from a network app.
I want guests to be able to use it without asking questions.
I want the Mini to work without waiting for the host to wake up.
I want my hard drive to not be ruined by unnecessary parking.


----------



## bradleys

DeltaOne said:


> I deleted one of the OnePass entries. Here's the other one, for the Durst show on HBO.


Is the folder just on your phone or on your main TiVo box as well. I noticed it took a few moments for the folder to delete when I tried it right now on my iPad.

I assume the folder went away for the 1P you deleted all together?

That is a weird bug. It looks like you are doing everything correctly.


----------



## DeltaOne

bradleys said:


> Is the folder just on your phone or on your main TiVo box as well. I noticed it took a few moments for the folder to delete when I tried it right now on my iPad.
> 
> I assume the folder went away for the 1P you deleted all together?
> 
> That is a weird bug. It looks like you are doing everything correctly.


Both folders are on the main TiVo box.

I originally deleted the one show that was in each folder, thinking the folder would drop off. It didn't. Then I deleted one of the passes thinking the folder would go away. No joy. Then I selected the folder and pressed the Clear key...X shows up but the folder doesn't go away.

I'll force a network connection tonight when I get home. Can't hurt...and maybe it'll make the folders drop off.


----------



## pig_man

Just got 2.4.6 last night and I discovered that now you can also wake up a Roamio from Standby mode by pressing any of the number keys (0-9) or channel up/down. This affects me because I'm using a cheap silver Comcast remote programmed with lots of macros for ease of use. Now I can't use it on my Premiere without it waking up my Roamio if I press a number key or channel up/down. D'oh!


----------



## Arcady

pig_man said:


> Just got 2.4.6 last night and I discovered that now you can also wake up a Roamio from Standby mode by pressing any of the number keys (0-9) or channel up/down. This affects me because I'm using a cheap silver Comcast remote programmed with lots of macros for ease of use. Now I can't use it on my Premiere without it waking up my Roamio if I press a number key or channel up/down. D'oh!


Do you have both TiVo boxes set to the same remote code?


----------



## pig_man

Arcady said:


> Do you have both TiVo boxes set to the same remote code?


No, one is set to 2, the other to 3. The problem is that the Comcast remote only outputs the "all TiVo" code (0). Maybe there's a way to change codes on the Comcast remote, but I haven't found any info on how to do that.


----------



## lpwcomp

I have found what I consider to be a major bug with this release. When viewing the Episode list, the Show(All) option simply doesn't work properly. What it displays varies but the only time only it actually displays all episodes is if they are available.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Arcady said:


> If I want to watch XOD on a Mini, and the Roamio is sleeping, I can't. That's just dumb.





wmcbrine said:


> I had to look up "XOD" -- Xfinity on Demand? That sounds like a bug, and a real reason to avoid Standby, yes. But, it doesn't apply to me.


Xfinity OnDemand delivery is via a QAM tuner not IP Video, that is why the DVR must be awake.

The request is sent over IP, but the actual video stream is sent over a QAM tuner. If you do not have a tuner available due to recordings XOD would not work either.
http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2261#requirements


----------



## randian

Found an annoying bug in OnePasses. You can't set a OnePass to record a specific channel on the latest day's shows nor can you set an existing All OP to the specific channel whose latest show has just appeared. The OP will say that 1 show is scheduled to record while the show entry itself says "not available". This just happened with The Following and Once Upon a Time, for example. You can set an All Channels OP and wait until a new day's guide info appears, then set the specific channel or update an existing All Channel OP.


----------



## lpwcomp

randian said:


> Found an annoying bug in OnePasses. You can't set a OnePass to record a specific channel on the latest day's shows nor can you set an existing All OP to the specific channel whose latest show has just appeared. The OP will say that 1 show is scheduled to record while the show entry itself says "not available". This just happened with The Following and Once Upon a Time, for example. You can set an All Channels OP and wait until a new day's guide info appears, then set the specific channel or update an existing All Channel OP.


If by "latest day's shows" you mean the furthest out day, this is not a new problem.


----------



## ertyu

Just got the update and I'm missing the ability to ungroup my shows


----------



## RoyK

ertyu said:


> Just got the update and I'm missing the ability to ungroup my shows


Welcome to OnePass


----------



## MHunter1

ertyu said:


> Just got the update and I'm missing the ability to ungroup my shows


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=525757


----------



## mattack

BUGS:

1) You can thumbs up/down in the top bar thing (the annoying ad bar), which IIRC you couldn't previously.. BUT it doesn't actually remember your thumbs up/down.. Or at least it doesn't in the top bar. I think it is like this.
a) go to an item in the top bar
b) thumbs up
-> it show thumbs up
c) move to another item and back
-> your thumbs up isn't there anymore.. But IIRC (I could be misremembering) if you hit SELECT to actually go into the show, it *IS* showing your thumbs up..

2) The "bounce" when moving between different items in the top bar IS ANNOYING. Just time wasting/annoying/attention grabbing animation.

I think I hit at least one more, but can't remember what it was at the moment.. Yeah, I'll try to put these on forum.tivo.com too.


----------



## ThAbtO

I got my Roamio updated on the 18th and I have noticed there was something new added.... Progress Bars!


----------



## Keen

Yeah, I love the progress bars!


----------



## Arcady

Yeah they are cool. Don't count on them being accurate for anything you watched before the TiVo upgraded to 20.4.6. Also, they don't work with any streaming content from Netflix, Amazon, etc.


----------



## dswallow

DeltaOne said:


> I've been okay with the 20.4.6 changes but now have two empty folders I can't delete. They were new OnePass entries that I inadvertently created with "recordings and streaming" when I meant only "recordings."
> 
> I've re-read most of this thread but don't see how to delete these empty folders. I've changed the OnePass entries to recordings only. Do I need to force a connection to TiVo HQ? Reboot the Roamio? Sacrifice a chicken?


Thanks for mentioning your post here in the thread I created about this problem I'm having with a OnePass for 'Allegiance' at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=525788.

The issue is repeatable for me with this show; but some shows appear to function fine and as expected when adjusting settings, which is what leads me to suspect somehow there's bad time data involved in the bug showing up for a OnePass for a given show.


----------



## pshivers

Just got all five of my boxes updated, Roamio Pro, Roamio Basic and three Mini's. Nothing to report other than all are working as advertised!


----------



## DeltaOne

DeltaOne said:


> I'll force a network connection tonight when I get home. Can't hurt...and maybe it'll make the folders drop off.


Finally got the phantom groups (folders) to disappear from my Roamio. All it took was a reboot.


----------



## DeltaOne

TiVo must at least be considering making changes to the new OnePass. I received an invitation to a survey this morning. About 25 questions maybe? Half of the questions were about OnePass, asking what I liked, disliked or would change.


----------



## RoyK

DeltaOne said:


> TiVo must at least be considering making changes to the new OnePass. I received an invitation to a survey this morning. About 25 questions maybe? Half of the questions were about OnePass, asking what I liked, disliked or would change.


I thought that is what the beta test was for....


----------



## slowbiscuit

lpwcomp said:


> I have found what I consider to be a major bug with this release. When viewing the Episode list, the Show(All) option simply doesn't work properly. What it displays varies but the only time only it actually displays all episodes is if they are available.


Yep, I've seen this too. I wouldn't call this a major bug just an annoyance since I only use it infrequently, but it is odd given the new emphasis on season/ep ordering with 1Ps. Maybe the DB change for 1Ps broke this.


----------



## bradleys

DeltaOne said:


> TiVo must at least be considering making changes to the new OnePass. I received an invitation to a survey this morning. About 25 questions maybe? Half of the questions were about OnePass, asking what I liked, disliked or would change.


I did the survey as well.. I think it was just trying to measure acceptance.


----------



## passname22

Why don't they update the entire interface with HD????? It's 2015 and still some part of menu and settings looks crap.


----------



## jrtroo

You are preaching to the choir. 

However, they work just fine and in managing a limited resource like programmers, I would prefer to eliminate bugs and enhance features before worrying about screens that are rarely used. 

The only real reason to switch them over is to stop the griping and press.


----------



## bradleys

passname22 said:


> Why don't they update the entire interface with HD????? It's 2015 and still some part of menu and settings looks crap.


So few settings screens are SD anymore.

I think it has become pretty evident that tivo doesn't simply convert any of the screens, they redesign them adding functionality.

Careful, they might change something you like in the redesign!


----------



## morac

I found a few problems when playing Netflix TV episodes from My Shows as opposed to launching the Netflix application and playing them from there. I saw the following when trying to watch the pilot episode from "Once Upon a Time" by selecting it in My Shows and pressing play.

1. When playing from My Shows group, the closed captions are huge and the settings set on the Netflix subtitle appearance page are ignored. _Edit: this seems to have cleared up after launching the app manually. _

2. If I back out of playing the video or get kicked out because it says there's an error, the pilot episode doesn't appear in the episode list in Netflix. Instead a blank square appears.

If I launch Netflix from Find TV, I don't see either problem.


----------



## dmaneyapanda

In case anyone is tabulating results, I am entirely pleased with the OnePass functionality. It adds a lot of extra value to me to be able to add OPs for netflix and amazon original series, and to get streaming versions of shows I'm coming to late to the party in a single folder.

I feel bad for the people who lost some functionality that they considered important, but I understand (for the most part) why tivo would remove them to balance back to a simpler UI. Hopefully some might be addressed eventually.

But in the interim, I am wholeheartedly in support of this release. Awesome improvement.


----------



## pdicamillo

dmaneyapanda said:


> I feel bad for the people who lost some functionality that they considered important, but I understand (for the most part) why tivo would remove them to balance back to a simpler UI. Hopefully some might be addressed eventually.


As a software developer, I wouldn't consider it necessary to remove features in order to have a simpler UI. The features which complicate the UI could be hidden by default, but enabled by an "advanced user mode" setting. Backdoors would be a solution too, although it's much better if all the features can be discovered using the UI.


----------



## aaronwt

bradleys said:


> So few settings screens are SD anymore.
> 
> I think it has become pretty evident that tivo doesn't simply convert any of the screens, they redesign them adding functionality.
> 
> Careful, they might change something you like in the redesign!


I still see some of these screens every week. I would love to always have a window playing the current program, no matter what I'm doing on the TiVo. Instead, every week I hit these old SD screens which is jarring and completely different since the show being watched does not continue to play.


----------



## Arcady

Why are you in the settings every week?


----------



## aaronwt

Arcady said:


> Why are you in the settings every week?


Messages, DVR Diagnostics, Channels, Network, Cablecard, Sys Info, etc. They all take me to an SD menu and I am accessing one or more of them each week.

For instance this weekend I could not remember which channels were H.264 on FiOS. So I needed to look at the DVR diagnostics to double check.


----------



## Arcady

aaronwt said:


> Messages, DVR Diagnostics, Channels, Network, Cablecard, Sys Info, etc. They all take me to an SD menu and I am accessing one or more of them each week.



 TiVo doesn't send out a message every week.
 DVR diagnostics should be used if the DVR acts broken. Happens once every 3 years?
 Once you set channels, why would you ever go in there again, unless there was a lineup change? This happens once every year, maybe.
After you set up the network, you don't need to ever go in there again unless you are expecting an update, or the box won't connect. Every 3 months max?
 After you get your CableCARD paired, what reason would there ever be to go in this menu?
 System Info is great when you need to set the remote address, so maybe once a year at most?


----------



## aaronwt

Arcady said:


> TiVo doesn't send out a message every week.
> DVR diagnostics should be used if the DVR acts broken. Happens once every 3 years?
> Once you set channels, why would you ever go in there again, unless there was a lineup change? This happens once every year, maybe.
> After you set up the network, you don't need to ever go in there again unless you are expecting an update, or the box won't connect. Every 3 months max?
> After you get your CableCARD paired, what reason would there ever be to go in this menu?
> System Info is great when you need to set the remote address, so maybe once a year at most?


-I get messages all the time. Sometimes several days a week. It seems like channels are constantly being added and removed around here on FiOS.

-DVR Diagnostics tell me whether a channel is MPEG2 or H.264. It also shows me the signal strength etc.

-And again since channels are being constantly added and removed, every time one is added I need to go into the channel list to remove it so it doesn't show up in the guide. Because TiVo defaults to having the new channels added to the list.

-Network.. I will go in periodically to see what transfer rates I am getting between TiVos and between my KMTTG/TiVo Desktop PC.

-Cablecard Menu-- is another way to access DVR Diagnostics. Sometime I revert back to the old ways and access DVR Diagnostics through this menu

-System info- remote code? I use Slide Pro remotes so I'm not worried about the IR remote code since I use RF. Plus The Sys info screen will show me the temperature as well as how long the guide data is good for etc.,

Just yesterday I accessed the Sys info screen.I was curious how high the temp would go while I was concurrently streaming to three tablets, four Minis, a Roamio Basic, and a Premiere. The temp rose 5 degrees.


----------



## Arcady

I guess I'm glad I don't have FiOS then. I get two or three channel lineup changes a year, at most.


----------



## aaronwt

I have no idea why I get so many. FOr instance it will have a message that says channel 466 is being removed. Then it has another message that channel 466 has been added. Sometimes the call letters are changed and sometimes they stay the same. For a while it was getting crazy with all the messages I was getting.

Initially, if a message pops up, it seems to be in the HD menu. But if I never access it there then when I go to messages it shows up on an SD menu.


----------



## PedjaR

Arcady said:


> TiVo doesn't send out a message every week.
> DVR diagnostics should be used if the DVR acts broken. Happens once every 3 years?
> Once you set channels, why would you ever go in there again, unless there was a lineup change? This happens once every year, maybe.
> After you set up the network, you don't need to ever go in there again unless you are expecting an update, or the box won't connect. Every 3 months max?
> After you get your CableCARD paired, what reason would there ever be to go in this menu?
> System Info is great when you need to set the remote address, so maybe once a year at most?


For me, the one SD setting screen I use most frequently is Closed Captioning options, as for some channels (SyFy, for example), I must turn off digital captions or else they are worthless, while for BBC America, for some shows, I must turn them on and turn off the analog ones.


----------



## Arcady

The CC options should definitely be HD.


----------



## aaronwt

On the rare occasion I've used closed captions I've turned it on/off while watching a program. I think it's just three button presses. Info, Down, and select and I think that turns it on/off while watching a program. If I remember correctly.


----------



## chiguy50

aaronwt said:


> I still see some of these screens every week. I would love to always have a window playing the current program, no matter what I'm doing on the TiVo. Instead, every week I hit these old SD screens which is jarring and completely different since the show being watched does not continue to play.


+1 (i.e., you are not alone!)


----------



## jrtroo

I get tons of messages from Comcast changing local sub-channels. Also, you get messages when you schedule something online, which I use often.


----------



## epstewart

Count me among those who want no more SD screens!

Why is it so hard for TiVo to convert SD screens to HD? Doing so need not imply needing to add features to the HD screens ...


----------



## moyekj

Every time TiVo converts SD screens to HD, functionality gets lost in the mix. So I say please leave them as is...


----------



## epstewart

moyekj said:


> Every time TiVo converts SD screens to HD, functionality gets lost in the mix. So I say please leave them as is...


I'll add that there's no apparent need to discard functionality when converting SD screens to HD, just as there's no inherent need to add functionality. All that's required is to increase resolution, no?


----------



## L David Matheny

epstewart said:


> I'll add that there's no apparent need to discard functionality when converting SD screens to HD, just as there's no inherent need to add functionality. All that's required is to increase resolution, no?


I suppose just increasing the resolution would make the transition between screens less jarring. But the way things work now, people expect all HD screens to have the preview window in the upper right corner for live TV or whatever. Don't you think there would still be complaints if it's not there for some settings screens?


----------



## moyekj

L David Matheny said:


> I suppose just increasing the resolution would make the transition between screens less jarring. But the way things work now, people expect all HD screens to have the preview window in the upper right corner for live TV or whatever. Don't you think there would still be complaints if it's not there for some settings screens?


 I guess I'm in the minority. I prefer NOT to have the preview screen anywhere - spoiler central. Too bad in guide mode there's no option to disable it.


----------



## RoyK

moyekj said:


> I guess I'm in the minority. I prefer NOT to have the preview screen anywhere - spoiler central. Too bad in guide mode there's no option to disable it.


Absolutely agree. It seems ridiculous not to have the option to turn it off everywhere.


----------



## blacknoi

moyekj said:


> I guess I'm in the minority. I prefer NOT to have the preview screen anywhere - spoiler central. Too bad in guide mode there's no option to disable it.


I'll hit mute on the TV and strategically avert my eyes. That's the best I could come up with.


----------



## lpwcomp

blacknoi said:


> I'll hit mute on the TV and strategically avert my eyes. That's the best I could come up with.


Or hit pause.


----------



## epstewart

lpwcomp said:


> Or hit pause.


Or hit "slow" to temporarily hide the video window.

Edit: Oops! In guide mode that doesn't work. Go figure!


----------



## epstewart

I want to know why the Settings & Messages screen for turning the video window on and off is HD and itself optionally uses the video window, but some of the screens en route to that screen are stuck in SD mode and lack video window capability.


----------



## lpwcomp

epstewart said:


> I want to know why the Settings & Messages screen for turning the video window on and off is HD and itself optionally uses the video window, but some of the screens en route to that screen are stuck in SD mode and lack video window capability.


That particular feature is only available when using the HD menus so there was never an SD version of that screen.


----------



## RoyK

epstewart said:


> Or hit "slow" to temporarily hide the video window.
> 
> Edit: Oops! In guide mode that doesn't work. Go figure!


Yeah but that's an old inconsistency. The 'upgrade' adds more. Like you can select a program, press Clear and the program deletes. Or when a program ends a window offering a delete option pops up. Select it and the program is deleted. But click on the program scroll down to the delete option and you are presented with a request for confirmation which is both inconsistent and unnecessary since accidently deleted programs are easily recovered.

Then there's the find by Channel menu that let's you select from favorite channels while the find by time menu doesn't.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Yeah but that's an old inconsistency. The 'upgrade' adds more. Like you can select a program, press Clear and the program deletes. Or when a program ends a window offering a delete option pops up. Select it and the program is deleted. But click on the program scroll down to the delete option and you are presented with a request for confirmation which is both inconsistent and unnecessary since accidently deleted programs are easily recovered.


None of those is new with this release.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> None of those is new with this release.


20.4.5c did not require a delete confirmation.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> 20.4.5c did not require a delete confirmation.


Ok. My mistake. I rarely delete programs via the menu option. Much easier to hit clear.

And I'm sorry, this is an example of the kind of nit-picking that obscures the larger issues.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> Ok. My mistake. I rarely delete programs via the menu option. Much easier to hit clear.
> 
> And I'm sorry, this is an example of the kind of nit-picking that obscures the larger issues.


This is the kind of inattention to details and lack of forethought that creates the larger issues.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> This is the kind of inattention to details and lack of forethought that creates the larger issues.


Nonsense. They may in fact had valid reasons for adding the confirmation dialog when deleting via the menu option as opposed to using the clear button.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> Nonsense. They may in fact had valid reasons for adding the confirmation dialog when deleting via the menu option as opposed to using the clear button.


Must have just come to light. Deletw confirmation hasn't been rrequired for years and years/ Using the clear button in the same menu doess not require confirmation.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Must have just come to light. Deletw confirmation hasn't been rrequired for years and years/ Using the clear button in the same menu doess not require confirmation.


So? It's still a minor and _*explicit*_ change that has absolutely nothing to do with "attention to detail".


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> So? It's still a minor and _*explicit*_ change that has absolutely nothing to do with "attention to detail".


Naah. No different from here you see them there you don't progress bars, And folders in My Shows that have no shows.


----------



## ajwees41

RoyK said:


> Must have just come to light. Deletw confirmation hasn't been rrequired for years and years/ Using the clear button in the same menu doess not require confirmation.


yes pressing clear on the remote when in the myshows folder brings up a confirmation box on a premiere on 20.4.5c


----------



## RoyK

ajwees41 said:


> yes pressing clear on the remote when in the myshows folder brings up a confirmation box on a premiere on 20.4.5c


Only if you have highlighted a folder and are deleting multiple programs


----------



## lpwcomp

ajwees41 said:


> yes pressing clear on the remote when in the myshows folder brings up a confirmation box on a premiere on 20.4.5c


I have to go the other way on this one because it doesn't on my Premiere. The only time I get the confirmation menu with clear is when _*permanently*_ deleting items from "Recently deleted".

As far as deletion goes, the change that is far more concerning is the addition of "Delete everything & cancel this OnePass" to the group deletion menu.

Something I just noticed. It appears that TiVo has at least partially given up. When you "Clear" a group, the first menu option is "Delete everything in this _*folder*_". It is still referred to as a _*group*_ elsewhere.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Only if you have highlighted a folder and are deleting multiple programs


Oops. Yes, there too.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> Oops. Yes, there too.


Confirmation makes sense when permanently deleting from recently deleted -- no going back from that. Also when deleting a folder. Recovering 20 or 30 files is a pain


----------



## astrohip

PedjaR said:


> For me, the one SD setting screen I use most frequently is Closed Captioning options, as for some channels (SyFy, for example), I must turn off digital captions or else they are worthless, while for BBC America, for some shows, I must turn them on and turn off the analog ones.
> 
> 
> 
> aaronwt said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the rare occasion I've used closed captions I've turned it on/off while watching a program. I think it's just three button presses. Info, Down, and select and I think that turns it on/off while watching a program. If I remember correctly.
Click to expand...

aarontwt--while most of us toggle captions the way you do, PedjaR said he needs to change analog<>digital, not just toggle on/off. That requires a trip to the CC Settings Screen.


----------



## questors

I guess I'm in the minority. I prefer NOT to have the preview screen anywhere - spoiler central. Too bad in guide mode there's no option to disable it.



RoyK said:


> Absolutely agree. It seems ridiculous not to have the option to turn it off everywhere.


Ah... Go to: Settings - Display - Video Window and click "Off." You'll never see the live video window.


----------



## Arcady

questors said:


> Ah... Go to: Settings - Display - Video Window and click "Off." You'll never see the live video window.


That doesn't work for the guide.


----------



## RoyK

questors said:


> I guess I'm in the minority. I prefer NOT to have the preview screen anywhere - spoiler central. Too bad in guide mode there's no option to disable it.
> 
> Ah... Go to: Settings - Display - Video Window and click "Off." You'll never see the live video window.


Been there. Done that. Press the Guide button on the remote --- Voila Preview window that the Slow button won't turn off.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Been there. Done that. Press the Guide button on the remote --- Voila Preview window that the Slow button won't turn off.


That's because the HDUI guide view with with the preview window is the equivalent of the SDUI guide that was an overlay of live TV. At least you are no longer forced to live TV when you bring up the guide.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> That's because the HDUI guide view with with the preview window is the equivalent of the SDUI guide that was an overlay of live TV. At least you are no longer forced to live TV when you bring up the guide.


So turn preview window off means turn preview window off except when it doesn't.....


----------



## questors

Arcady said:


> That doesn't work for the guide.


I just checked, that's correct. I've never used the guide, so I never saw the live window.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> So turn preview window off means turn preview window off except when it doesn't.....


It means turn it off for every menu/display where you weren't seeing live TV in the SDUI.


----------



## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> It means turn it off for every menu/display where you weren't seeing live TV in the SDUI.


In other words turn it off means turn it off except where it doesn't.


----------



## moonscape

moyekj said:


> I guess I'm in the minority. I prefer NOT to have the preview screen anywhere - spoiler central. Too bad in guide mode there's no option to disable it.


Agree completely. If they go to HD in all views and don't do this it will be beyond annoying.


----------



## mattack

One other bug (when I figure out how to describe it better I'll write it up at forums.tivo.com) that SEEMS new or at least much more prevalent in the new release is this:

When you exit out of a currently playing program via "unusual means" (e.g. thumbs up to record, or going into OnePass options for a show while viewing the guide while still watching in the PIP window), when you go BACK to the show, it's not starting back at the right place (where you exited). For one show, I was almost back at the beginning..

I think I've seen various cases of this in the past, but it seemed more prevalent nowadays. Basically, it should be saving your current play point (analog of pause point) any time you exit playback...


----------



## slowbiscuit

Losing track of playback point has always been a stupid Tivo niggle that indicates a lack of attention to details, IMO, especially since it's been going on for years. 

As you said there's more than one way to get this to happen (chase-watching closely behind live is the most common way).

Another long-standing niggle for me is not returning to the recording when pulling up the guide while watching a recording and then making changes to it or another recording (from the guide, thereby pausing playback) - it always dumps you back to live TV afterwards when you exit out normally with left arrow. Using Zoom sort of works but I'm not conditioned to use that (it's non-intuitive from the menus when you have the video preview window turned off), and it doesn't return you to exactly where you left off anyway, it's some minutes (?) prior to your playback point in the recording.


----------



## aaronwt

slowbiscuit said:


> Losing track of playback point has always been a stupid Tivo niggle that indicates a lack of attention to details, IMO, especially since it's been going on for years.
> 
> As you said there's more than one way to get this to happen (chase-watching closely behind live is the most common way).
> 
> Another long-standing niggle for me is not returning to the recording when pulling up the guide while watching a recording and then making changes to it or another recording (from the guide, thereby pausing playback) - it always dumps you back to live TV afterwards when you exit out.


If you have the preview window then it isn't an issue. I set something up to record last night while watching a show and it worked as it always has for me since I use the preview window. It either keeps playing or I pause it and it is still in the paused position. This is another reason I wish all menus were HD. Then the window could always be in the upper right.


----------



## epstewart

Food for discussion:

Will OnePass, with its tight integration of streaming services with TiVo recording capability, spur greater sales of TiVo units?

If so, will that allow TiVo Inc. to hire a larger programming staff?

If so, will TiVo Inc. then be better able to address the design and usage complaints strewn throughout this thread?


----------



## bradleys

epstewart said:


> Food for discussion:
> 
> Will OnePass, with its tight integration of streaming services with TiVo recording capability, spur greater sales of TiVo units?
> 
> If so, will that allow TiVo Inc. to hire a larger programming staff?
> 
> If so, will TiVo Inc. then be better able to address the design and usage complaints strewn throughout this thread?


First: I don't think TiVo needs or wants a "larger" development staff then they currently have... It is a balance of resources against mission that any company struggles with - not strictly a current financial limitation.

Second: You make an assumption that TiVo is unhappy with the current level of functionality. I suggest they are not... It was delivered as designed and while we should see some refinement, and bug fixes, I suggest that you will not see a significant change in the approach to OnePass functionality.

I realize this group is concerned that some "beloved" features are missing, but I do not expect TiVo will make any effort to re-engineer the product to reintroduce them. I also see several requests for "Highly customizable user experience settings", something that also seems to be outside of TiVo's design strategy (not because they are resource bound).

So, to answer your question? I do not believe any amount of money or sales will address the lions share of niggle requests in this thread.


----------



## epstewart

bradleys said:


> First: I don't think TiVo needs or wants a "larger" development staff then they currently have... It is a balance of resources against mission that any company struggles with - not strictly a current financial limitation.
> 
> Second: You make an assumption that TiVo is unhappy with the current level of functionality. I suggest they are not... It was delivered as designed and while we should see some refinement, and bug fixes, you will not a significant change in functionality.
> 
> I realize this group is concerned that some "beloved" features are missing, but I do not expect TiVo will make any effort to re-engineer the product to reintroduce them. Quietly waiting out the discomfort of change won't take any additional investment in staff...


I was thinking of complaints like the loss of playback-resumption point and the continued use of SD screens. These are legitimate complaints, however minor in the grand scheme of things. I have to assume the TiVo folks would address them if they had the resources. Possibly they would get addressed if there were a larger qualified staff.

To assume the opposite  that TiVo would never fix or upgrade them, even if they sold more units and could afford to hire more staff  strikes me as hard to believe.


----------



## bradleys

epstewart said:


> I was thinking of complaints like the loss of playback-resumption point and the continued use of SD screens.


Loss of playback-resumption sounds like a bug - I haven't specifically noticed it, but I assume it is real... TiVo does a _*pretty*_ good job addressing bugs within their quarterly releases based on some internal prioritization they set. The more critical to the user experience the quicker they move on it.

SD screens - TiVo has been hammered on SD screens for years by both users and media. Most of them are gone, today just a few settings screens remain.

What I have noticed is that TiVo never simply converts an SD screen to HD, it always follows a redesign of the functionality involved in that screen. And if TiVo has been willing to suffer the complaints when they had some obvious and every day SD screens - I think they are pretty comfortable with the minimal existing settings screens changing within their design calendar.

TiVo has bugs, TiVo has a design strategy and TiVo has some usability issues especially within some of these new features. My point is, most of the complaints about lost features in this thread are by design and resource availability is not going to change that.

Only a change in their design philosophy will address most of the concerns expressed in this thread - and that is a significant lift...


----------



## Arcady

I saw the resume-playback bug last night. I backed out of playback to check something in the menus. I was about 45 minutes into the hour-long show at that point. Then I went back into My Shows and hit play on the same program and it started at the beginning. I'm pretty sure the show was recording when I first started playing it, and was already done recording when I backed out of it.


----------



## bradleys

Arcady said:


> I saw the resume-playback bug last night. I backed out of playback to check something in the menus. I was about 45 minutes into the hour-long show at that point. Then I went back into My Shows and hit play on the same program and it started at the beginning. I'm pretty sure the show was recording when I first started playing it, and was already done recording when I backed out of it.


So you think the bug occurs while the episode is actively recording?


----------



## Arcady

bradleys said:


> So you think the bug occurs while the episode is actively recording?


Maybe. I'd have to do some more testing to be sure.


----------



## aaronwt

epstewart said:


> Food for discussion:
> 
> Will OnePass, with its tight integration of streaming services with TiVo recording capability, spur greater sales of TiVo units?
> 
> If so, will that allow TiVo Inc. to hire a larger programming staff?
> 
> If so, will TiVo Inc. then be better able to address the design and usage complaints strewn throughout this thread?


No, no, and no.


----------



## HarperVision

aaronwt said:


> No, no, and no.


I'm pretty sure your first "no" still remains to be seen, unless you're clairvoyant?


----------



## aaronwt

HarperVision said:


> I'm pretty sure your first "no" still remains to be seen, unless you're clairvoyant?


Of course it's my opinion. But retail sales have been waning for awhile now. I would be surprised to see that trend reversed. But you never know. Their growth has been from cable company supplied TiVos.


----------



## HarperVision

aaronwt said:


> Of course it's my opinion. But retail sales have been waning for awhile now. I would be surprised to see that trend reversed. But you never know. Their growth has been from cable company supplied TiVos.


I'd say this is a good step in the right direction for TiVo:



cherry ghost said:


> Frontier Communications Announces Strategic Relationship With TiVo
> 
> http://pr.tivo.com/press-releases/frontier-communications-announces-strategic-relationship-with-tivo-nasdaq-tivo-1177479


I'm sure Frontier's decision was influenced by the addition of OnePass.


----------



## bradleys

I just added a new thread on the Frontier deal - sorry, I didn't see Cherry Ghosts post.

I do see the two as being related. OnePass could be a huge benefit to OTA DVR's and really help differentiate TiVo in a market.

To take advantage of the functionality, TiVo needs to add more streaming partners - like the new HBO streaming app, et al.


----------



## tatergator1

HarperVision said:


> I'd say this is a good step in the right direction for TiVo:
> 
> I'm sure Frontier's decision was influenced by the addition of OnePass.


+1. I've made the point previously that the OnePass concept is very valuable for marketing and should be a growth driver, especially for the Tivo OTA and MSO Tivos.


----------



## tatergator1

bradleys said:


> So you think the bug occurs while the episode is actively recording?





Arcady said:


> Maybe. I'd have to do some more testing to be sure.


Loss of pause point on a show that was still recording when you paused and then resumed after recording was finished has been a bug for years, at least for the 3.5 years I've owned my Premiere. It's been too long to remember, but I think this happened on my Series 2 DT as well.


----------



## epstewart

Interesting discussion ... It would seem that OnePass might help TiVo Inc. reposition itself into more of an MSO- and OTA-oriented market. I'm hoping they make oodles of money at that, and devote some of it to fixing those nagging bugs that have been around for years. Am I just being a cockeyed optimist?


----------



## lpwcomp

epstewart said:


> Am I just being a cockeyed optimist?


Yes.


----------



## ajwees41

bradleys said:


> I just added a new thread on the Frontier deal - sorry, I didn't see Cherry Ghosts post.
> 
> I do see the two as being related. OnePass could be a huge benefit to OTA DVR's and really help differentiate TiVo in a market.
> 
> To take advantage of the functionality, TiVo needs to add more streaming partners - like the new HBO streaming app, et al.


If they are smart they would add all streaming apps that are available then users would hard drive space for channels that don't do streaming.


----------



## bradleys

ajwees41 said:


> If they are smart they would add all streaming apps that are available then users would hard drive space for channels that don't do streaming.


Adding streaming apps still takes negotiation with the streaming app owners and (I assume) slight modifications and testing to get it up and running. TiVo has to make the case to the streaming app providers that they have the numbers to drive eyeballs.

Hopefully, we see more in the near future. I would be a big fan of HBO Go


----------



## lpwcomp

ajwees41 said:


> If they are smart they would add all streaming apps that are available then users would hard drive space for channels that don't do streaming.


You assume that all ( or at least most) TiVo users subscribe to multiple streaming services. There are still a lot of people like me who subscribe to none.

It is up to the streaming service to provide an app that will run on a TiVo. TiVo has already provided "all streaming apps that are available".

TiVo seems to have two conflicting goals. Encouraging MSOs to make TiVos available through them and encouraging people to use alternate sources for programming are not compatible.


----------



## ajwees41

lpwcomp said:


> You assume that all ( or at least most) TiVo users subscribe to multiple streaming services. There are still a lot of people like me who subscribe to none.
> 
> It is up to the streaming service to provide an app that will run on a TiVo. TiVo has already provided "all streaming apps that are available".
> 
> TiVo seems to have two conflicting goals. Encouraging MSOs to make TiVos available through them and encouraging people to use alternate sources for programming are not compatible.


No I am talking about the channel apps like ABC,NBC,CBS not the streaming services like Amazon or Hulu.


----------



## lpwcomp

ajwees41 said:


> No I am talking about the channel apps like ABC,NBC,CBS not the streaming services like Amazon or Hulu.


Even those are not free and somebody has to provide an app that will run on a TiVo.


----------



## bradleys

lpwcomp said:


> You assume that all ( or at least most) TiVo users subscribe to multiple streaming services. There are still a lot of people like me who subscribe to none.


Surely you must see that you are not the growth market - right?

Just based on the premium product that TiVo is, I would disagree with you and say that a significant number, if not most TiVo users, subscribe to at least one streaming service.









http://www.reelseo.com/rise-online-video-break-internet/(This is old, but relevant)
http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/4/5781104/netflix-and-peers-will-make-more-money-than-box-office-by-2017


----------



## epstewart

lpwcomp said:


> Even those are not free and somebody has to provide an app that will run on a TiVo.


Who takes the initiative when it comes to adding new streaming apps  TiVo itself, or the likes of HBO Go or NBC SportsNet?


----------



## ajwees41

lpwcomp said:


> Even those are not free and somebody has to provide an app that will run on a TiVo.


Never said they were free just said if they were on TiVo that it would free up recording space for stuff that aren't on network tv like old shows that air on sub channels.


----------



## epstewart

bradleys said:


> Surely you must see that you are not the growth market - right?
> 
> Just based on the premium product that TiVo is, I would disagree with you and say that a significant number, if not most TiVo users, subscribe to at least one streaming service.


I've had several Tivo units over the years that have been cable-TV connected (including Verizon FiOS today). I subscribe to Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Hulu Plus. As I've become more reliant on online streaming, I've been able to move to a cheaper tier on FiOS. I see streaming as the wave of the future ... especially if it can eventually deliver unbundled live sports channels to everyone' satisfaction.


----------



## atmuscarella

bradleys said:


> Surely you must see that you are not the growth market - right?
> 
> Just based on the premium product that TiVo is, I would disagree with you and say that a significant number, if not most TiVo users, subscribe to at least one streaming service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.reelseo.com/rise-online-video-break-internet/(This is old, but relevant)
> http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/4/5781104/netflix-and-peers-will-make-more-money-than-box-office-by-2017


Well I just finished a week for Nelson TV and they treat recorded TV differently than live TV so I am guess very few of us actually watch "Live" TV


----------



## aaronwt

atmuscarella said:


> Well I just finished a week for Nelson TV and they treat recorded TV differently than live TV so I am guess very few of us actually watch "Live" TV


Being poked in the eye would be less painful than watching live TV because of all the commercials. And I think sports are the worst thing live since they typically go way overboard with commercials.


----------



## RoyK

HarperVision said:


> I'd say this is a good step in the right direction for TiVo:
> 
> I'm sure Frontier's decision was influenced by the addition of OnePass.


http://www.dealerscope.com/article/radioshack-carries-tivo-32964/1

Oh --- wait ----


----------



## Bierboy

uw69 said:


> crap, pending restart on my Roamio. Not looking fwd to onepass.


Unless you have the issue with multiple SPs for a single show, it's really a seamless transition. Just go into Settings and make sure you have it set the way you want...


----------



## lessd

epstewart said:


> Food for discussion:
> 
> Will OnePass, with its tight integration of streaming services with TiVo recording capability, spur greater sales of TiVo units?
> 
> If so, will that allow TiVo Inc. to hire a larger programming staff?
> 
> If so, will TiVo Inc. then be better able to address the design and usage complaints strewn throughout this thread?


I going with *spur greater sales of TiVo units*, outside of MSOs I don't think 1 in 10mill people would now say *boy NOW I will purchase a TiVo Roamio* because of the new features, as not one in 10 mill people would even know unless their active on this or other Forums, and few would care or understand the new features if they never owned a TiVo. unfortunately to most people a DVR is well a DVR, and they get their DVR from their cable co.


----------



## Johncv

moyekj said:


> I guess I'm in the minority. I prefer NOT to have the preview screen anywhere - spoiler central. Too bad in guide mode there's no option to disable it.


We are lucky we HAVE the option to tune it off. Cable/Sat boxes do not provide the option.


----------



## RoyK

Johncv said:


> We are lucky we HAVE the option to tune it off. Cable/Sat boxes do not provide the option.


You HAVE the opportunity to turn it off except where you DON'T -- in the guide.


----------



## astrohip

Arcady said:


> I saw the resume-playback bug last night. I backed out of playback to check something in the menus. I was about 45 minutes into the hour-long show at that point. Then I went back into My Shows and hit play on the same program and it started at the beginning. I'm pretty sure the show was recording when I first started playing it, and was already done recording when I backed out of it.


It sounds like you were watching live, then later went in to watch it as a recording. It has always treated those as separate actions, which means no restore point. Been that way since day one. Doesn't mean it's right, just that it's always been that way.



Bierboy said:


> Unless you have the issue with multiple SPs for a single show, it's really a seamless transition. Just go into Settings and make sure you have it set the way you want...


This. Since I stream almost nothing, and have no multiple SPs, all I had to do was make the master settings, then continue to treat OP as SP. No biggie to me.

I may miss "Everything", but right now I have no SPs using that.


----------



## randian

The All Channel OP is great for moving. You don't need to delete a Season Pass and replace it with an ARWL like you did before. Just switch the OP to All and switch it back when the show reappears in the guide.


----------



## trip1eX

aaronwt said:


> Being poked in the eye would be less painful than watching live TV because of all the commercials. And I think sports are the worst thing live since they typically go way overboard with commercials.


Yeah if I want to watch the end of a game live then I start about an hour late so I can skip all the commercials. Or evne later if I'm skipping downtime and parts of the event.


----------



## mchief

I was watching commercials Sunday and the Daytona Nascar Race broke out.


----------



## gespears

My wife kept getting mad because I kept skipping commercials during the Superbowl without even thinking about it. Even when I tried to stop. After this many years it's really a habit.


----------



## HarperVision

RoyK said:


> http://www.dealerscope.com/article/radioshack-carries-tivo-32964/1 Oh --- wait ----


----------



## slowbiscuit

aaronwt said:


> If you have the preview window then it isn't an issue. I set something up to record last night while watching a show and it worked as it always has for me since I use the preview window. It either keeps playing or I pause it and it is still in the paused position. This is another reason I wish all menus were HD. Then the window could always be in the upper right.


Well that's just it, I hate the preview window in menus and turn it off. But that breaks the playback point resume if you try to do anything from the menus when watching a recording. Just another dumb Tivo lack of attention to details.


----------



## slowbiscuit

bradleys said:


> Loss of playback-resumption sounds like a bug - I haven't specifically noticed it, but I assume it is real... TiVo does a _*pretty*_ good job addressing bugs within their quarterly releases based on some internal prioritization they set. The more critical to the user experience the quicker they move on it.


Must be VERY low priority if that's the case, because there are multiple ways that playback point gets lost that have been going on for years.


----------



## slowbiscuit

bradleys said:


> So you think the bug occurs while the episode is actively recording?


That's the most common way you'll see it (losing playback/resume point), and as mentioned it's pretty easy to make it happen when chase-watching the recording right behind live.


----------



## 59er

If you don't use the preview window and want to jump back to your recording from the menus, hitting Zoom is the best option. It should bring you back to where you were (although sometimes it bring you back but paused).

If you hate the preview window and don't want to see it in the guide, don't use the guide! Can't you just use Record by Time or Record by Channel to do the comparable review of what's on, without the preview window?


----------



## RoyK

59er said:


> If you don't use the preview window and want to jump back to your recording from the menus, hitting Zoom is the best option. It should bring you back to where you were (although sometimes it bring you back but paused).
> 
> If you hate the preview window and don't want to see it in the guide, don't use the guide! Can't you just use Record by Time or Record by Channel to do the comparable review of what's on, without the preview window?


Are you referring to the record by time that they removed the Favorite Channels option from?

Yet one more case of blatant inattention to detail.


----------



## Keen

Had an irritating issue last night while watching shows. I'd open a group in My Shows for a show that had aired earlier that night. When the group opened, it wasn't highlighting the top entry (i.e. the new episode), it was highlighting the 2nd entry.

Under previous versions, it would highlight the top entry, so my workflow is to press Select, Play in quick succession from My Shows to get into the latest episode.


----------



## RoyK

Keen said:


> Had an irritating issue last night while watching shows. I'd open a group in My Shows for a show that had aired earlier that night. When the group opened, it wasn't highlighting the top entry (i.e. the new episode), it was highlighting the 2nd entry.
> 
> Under previous versions, it would highlight the top entry, so my workflow is to press Select, Play in quick succession from My Shows to get into the latest episode.


I've noticed that show highlighting seems quite arbitrary. Exiting a group and reentering sometimes changes the highlighted show even if there is no change to the group. More inattention to detail.


----------



## moyekj

Keen said:


> Had an irritating issue last night while watching shows. I'd open a group in My Shows for a show that had aired earlier that night. When the group opened, it wasn't highlighting the top entry (i.e. the new episode), it was highlighting the 2nd entry.
> 
> Under previous versions, it would highlight the top entry, so my workflow is to press Select, Play in quick succession from My Shows to get into the latest episode.


 I'm seeing a bug where if there is a wishlist folder with only 1 entry in it, the 1st time I enter the folder the one and only entry is not even highlighted. I have to exit the folder and enter again to highlight the show. This is new behavior that came with 20.4.6 software.


----------



## lpwcomp

slowbiscuit said:


> Well that's just it, I hate the preview window in menus and turn it off. But that breaks the playback point resume if you try to do anything from the menus when watching a recording. Just another dumb Tivo lack of attention to details.


Not seeing that. Can you document exactly what you are doing where you are losing the pause point?


----------



## trip1eX

mchief said:


> I was watching commercials Sunday and the Daytona Nascar Race broke out.


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> Surely you must see that you are not the growth market - right?
> 
> Just based on the premium product that TiVo is, I would disagree with you and say that a significant number, if not most TiVo users, subscribe to at least one streaming service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.reelseo.com/rise-online-video-break-internet/(This is old, but relevant)
> http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/4/5781104/netflix-and-peers-will-make-more-money-than-box-office-by-2017


You do know your chart is made up right? Just want to make sure.

Massive assumption to extrapolate the next 7 years.

And while yes a large number of Tivo customers have Netflix. That's where it ends. The customer base of the other streaming services available pale in comparison.


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> You do know your chart is made up right? Just want to make sure.
> 
> Massive assumption to extrapolate the next 7 years.
> 
> And while yes a large number of Tivo customers have Netflix. That's where it ends. The customer base of the other streaming services available pale in comparison.


It is old and it is making some assumptions that I do not necessarily agree with. A lot of disruptors can happen between now and 2022 - so any graph with that long of a view is going to be nothing more that a swag based on current data.

That said, this type of disruption is pretty well acknowledged by most in the industry - and that was really my point.

Linear TV such as Cable will continue to loose ground to streaming services and the purpose of OnePass is to address this disruption head on.


----------



## RoyK

trip1eX said:


> You do know your chart is made up right? Just want to make sure.
> 
> Massive assumption to extrapolate the next 7 years.
> 
> And while yes a large number of Tivo customers have Netflix. That's where it ends. The customer base of the other streaming services available pale in comparison.


You mean everything I see on the Internet isn't true?


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> It is old and it is making some assumptions that I do not necessarily agree with. A lot of disruptors can happen between now and 2022 - so any graph with that long of a view is going to be nothing more that a swag based on current data.
> 
> That said, this type of disruption is pretty well acknowledged by most in the industry - and that was really my point.
> 
> Linear TV such as Cable will continue to loose ground to streaming services and the purpose of OnePass is to address this disruption head on.


I would be willing to bet that the chart doesn't factor in the new FCC "net neutrality" regs.


----------



## bradleys

lpwcomp said:


> I would be willing to bet that the chart doesn't factor in the new FCC "net neutrality" regs.


the Net Neutrality regulations should provide a level playing field for these types of services and some downward pressure on ISP costs / choices to the consumer.

Once everyone has access to the last mile, anyone can come into a community. This is real good news for the expansion of Google Fiber...


----------



## JoeKustra

The SCTA statement that it was in the interest of "free enterprise" was irritating. As if I have a choice of internet providers. Maybe they do, but I don't and my speed drops by 1/3 at night. I hope my ISP is really scared.


----------



## bradleys

JoeKustra said:


> The SCTA statement that it was in the interest of "free enterprise" was irritating. As if I have a choice of internet providers. Maybe they do, but I don't and my speed drops by 1/3 at night. I hope my ISP is really scared.


They should be... The biggest problem with cable / internet providers is they actively avoid any competition that would put pressure on price. The biggest cost - from their perspective is the last mile costs. Well, now that last mile is a common utility and anyone can use it.

I never expected title II protections - what I didn't want was the ISP's increasing the costs for internet / streaming services with their "share the revenue" schemes.

Share the Revenue: Internet content providers like Apple, Netflix, Google and Amazon are multi-billion dollar companies. ISP's wanted a piece of that profit for providing the connection to the home. Something the consumer already pays for.


----------



## dianebrat

RoyK said:


> You mean everything I see on the Internet isn't true?


Perfect place to put this, 


> "The problem with quotes found on the internet is that they're not always accurate." - Abraham Lincoln.


----------



## h2oskierc

Lincoln was immensely wise for his time.


----------



## RoyK

Did you find that quote on Abe's Facebook page?


----------



## lessd

Keen said:


> Had an irritating issue last night while watching shows. I'd open a group in My Shows for a show that had aired earlier that night. When the group opened, it wasn't highlighting the top entry (i.e. the new episode), it was highlighting the 2nd entry.
> 
> Under previous versions, it would highlight the top entry, so my workflow is to press Select, Play in quick succession from My Shows to get into the latest episode.


I noticed this also, though it was something I was doing incorrectly.


----------



## astrohip

RoyK said:


> Did you find that quote on Abe's Facebook page?


I'm pretty sure it was a tweet.


----------



## h2oskierc

astrohip said:


> I'm pretty sure it was a tweet.


No, it was on MySpace. Facebook and Twitter weren't on his radar.


----------



## aaronwt

RoyK said:


> I've noticed that show highlighting seems quite arbitrary. Exiting a group and reentering sometimes changes the highlighted show even if there is no change to the group. More inattention to detail.


Every time I go back to a group it is on the last episode I watched. Which will usually be the second one in the list since that would be the the show I watched the previous week. I have not seen any deviation from this.


----------



## David Platt

RoyK said:


> Did you find that quote on Abe's Facebook page?





astrohip said:


> I'm pretty sure it was a tweet.


I hope he kept it to under seven score characters.


----------



## ThAbtO

One thing I have found and hate is losing the ability to set passes for shows of the *same *title on different channels with different options, ie: start earlier, end later.

So now, I have a OnePass that is set to start 5 minutes early and ends 5 minutes later, on EVERY recording.  I used to have season pass set for a specific channel to start and end regularly and another pass on another channel to start/end 5 minutes early/later. But NOW, I cannot.


----------



## aaronwt

aaronwt said:


> Every time I go back to a group it is on the last episode I watched. Which will usually be the second one in the list since that would be the the show I watched the previous week. I have not seen any deviation from this.


I double checked this last night. Every folder I opened had the last show watched highlighted. Whether it was first in the list, second, or last. It was consistent. Which seems to be the proper bevior.


----------



## moyekj

aaronwt said:


> I double checked this last night. Every folder I opened had the last show watched highlighted. Whether it was first in the list, second, or last. It was consistent. Which seems to be the proper bevior.


 I've had several occasions when entering a folder with only 1 entry (wishlist) where 1 and only show is not highlighted. Seems to happen only the 1st time I enter the folder with a new recording. Subsequent tries are OK.


----------



## lpwcomp

Anyone else having problems with TS downloads since the update? Glitches and/or totally unusable recordings that are fine if transferred as PS?


----------



## aaronwt

lpwcomp said:


> Anyone else having problems with TS downloads since the update? Glitches and/or totally unusable recordings that are fine if transferred as PS?


Is TS the faster transfer method? If so then I have not had any issues with it.


----------



## moyekj

moyekj said:


> I've had several occasions when entering a folder with only 1 entry (wishlist) where 1 and only show is not highlighted. Seems to happen only the 1st time I enter the folder with a new recording. Subsequent tries are OK.


Grr. Looks like this is 100% repeatable with a wishlist folder with 1 new entry in it. Definitely a 20.4.6 bug.


----------



## TonyBlunt

With the introduction of OnePass I was under the impression that where I was using multiple SPs I would be restricted to one OnePass, and that for events like PGA Golf, which is broadcast on two different channels (Golf Channel and NBC), I would only get the first occurrence. In fact I am getting both showing in the list of shows to be recorded - so some of the concerns about OnePass seems to be unfounded. I am however restricted to one set of parameters for both channels, where I used to add an hour to the NBC recording but not the Golf Channel one, so there is some loss of function.


----------



## slowbiscuit

59er said:


> If you don't use the preview window and want to jump back to your recording from the menus, hitting Zoom is the best option. It should bring you back to where you were (although sometimes it bring you back but paused).
> 
> If you hate the preview window and don't want to see it in the guide, don't use the guide! Can't you just use Record by Time or Record by Channel to do the comparable review of what's on, without the preview window?


It does not bring you back to where you left off, it often jumps you back a few minutes.

And please don't start with the 'don't use the guide' crap, I use it all the time because I like it. Different strokes.


----------



## slowbiscuit

lpwcomp said:


> Not seeing that. Can you document exactly what you are doing where you are losing the pause point?


Turn off video preview, start a recording playback, bring up the guide and select a show then do something that gets you into the menus (e.g. explore this show).

There's a better than even chance that when you zoom back you won't be at the point you were watching, it's usually some time prior.


----------



## slowbiscuit

TonyBlunt said:


> With the introduction of OnePass I was under the impression that where I was using multiple SPs I would be restricted to one OnePass, and that for events like PGA Golf, which is broadcast on two different channels (Golf Channel and NBC), I would only get the first occurrence. In fact I am getting both showing in the list of shows to be recorded - so some of the concerns about OnePass seems to be unfounded. I am however restricted to one set of parameters for both channels, where I used to add an hour to the NBC recording but not the Golf Channel one, so there is some loss of function.


This was broken before NBC took over golf this week (i.e. when CBS was doing the main broadcast you only got the Golf Channel one), so it seems to be guide data related. It may be broken again after the Masters.


----------



## PedjaR

moyekj said:


> Grr. Looks like this is 100% repeatable with a wishlist folder with 1 new entry in it. Definitely a 20.4.6 bug.


Seen this too.


----------



## cherry ghost

TonyBlunt said:


> With the introduction of OnePass I was under the impression that where I was using multiple SPs I would be restricted to one OnePass, and that for events like PGA Golf, which is broadcast on two different channels (Golf Channel and NBC), I would only get the first occurrence. In fact I am getting both showing in the list of shows to be recorded - so some of the concerns about OnePass seems to be unfounded. I am however restricted to one set of parameters for both channels, where I used to add an hour to the NBC recording but not the Golf Channel one, so there is some loss of function.





slowbiscuit said:


> This was broken before NBC took over golf this week (i.e. when CBS was doing the main broadcast you only got the Golf Channel one), so it seems to be guide data related. It may be broken again after the Masters.


I recorded all three "Pga Tour Golf" today; early Golf Channel, afternoon NBC, and Golf Channel spotlight coverage. All have the same seriesID, but each have a unique programId. I'm assuming that when CBS has the coverage, the programId is the same as that for Golf Channel and is therefore seen as a repeat by One Pass.

In order to get all three to record on a 2-tuner Premiere, I had to remove padding on the One Pass. Before removing it, it was the NBC airing that was set to not record because of conflict. I'm curious as to how the the TiVo decides that.


----------



## wwu123

generaltso said:


> This is very annoying. If I tell it not to include options that cost money, they shouldn't be included right next to the free option. I may know that the Vudu or XOD options aren't free, but not everyone in the house is going to know the difference.


I agree, I'm trying to add a bunch of owned VUDU movies to the Streaming Movies folder to make it easy for my wife to watch. However, not only does paid XOD option show up, but also it's added the wrong version of the VUDU movie, so when clicking through to the VUDU app it's not the one I own (e.g. 3D vs 2D).

Does anyone know where the PIN purchase screens are? Are they BEFORE you jump into the streaming app? I've turned on the "require PIN for purchase/rent" option, but the Streaming Movies folder seems to take one right into XOD or VUDU without any PIN, and at one point I was afraid I'd directly started streaming a XOD movie that appeared to be a rent-only option.

Also the "See all options" selection is really misleading. For example I own Grand Budapest Hotel on VUDU, but this selection will never show that I own anything, just the VUDU own price. Yet for XOD, it shows a rent price, but also an apparently incorrect "included with subscription" XOD option. I was too afraid to click on it in case the PIN screens are not properly gating things.


----------



## sinanju

I'm looking at a folder chock full of Rugby... unwatched 6 Nations, Premiership, Pro 12, and USA Sevens matches. The cursor has been sitting on a 6 Nations match for a full minute, at least.

In the promo bar I have the movie PCU, Jessica Walter, and The Outer Limits becase for some reason my TiVo thinks Jessica Walter and Joanna Gleason play rugby. This is new to the release... that bar used to be filled with sports in this situation in prior releases.

Crashes, glitches, unusable digital optical audio, all but worthless new features, and Heisenberg's promo bar... Gosh, this release really is a crapfest.


----------



## JWhites

It's now March, still waiting for 20.4.6 on the Premiere units. Maybe TiVo should start outsourcing in order to get updates rolled out on a timely manner.


----------



## Mikeguy

sinanju said:


> In the promo bar I have the movie PCU, Jessica Walter, and The Outer Limits becase for some reason my TiVo thinks Jessica Walter and Joanna Gleason play rugby.


Now, Jessica Walter and Joanna Gleason playing rugby against each other--that would be quite a match!


----------



## HerronScott

JWhites said:


> It's now March, still waiting for 20.4.6 on the Premiere units. Maybe TiVo should start outsourcing in order to get updates rolled out on a timely manner.


You have seen that it's started rolling out to the people that signed up for the priority list on the 23rd? I would expect it to start rolling out to the rest of the Premiere's shortly.

Scott


----------



## ThAbtO

JWhites said:


> It's now March, still waiting for 20.4.6 on the Premiere units. Maybe TiVo should start outsourcing in order to get updates rolled out on a timely manner.


Email [email protected] with your Tivo Service number and issue.


----------



## sinanju

And now it no longer responds to my 1st gen slide remote.

Damnit TiVo.... Seriously?!
*
EDIT
*
17 minutes later, all the button presses caught up. Fer fark's sake


----------



## innocentfreak

moyekj said:


> I've had several occasions when entering a folder with only 1 entry (wishlist) where 1 and only show is not highlighted. Seems to happen only the 1st time I enter the folder with a new recording. Subsequent tries are OK.


I had this happen to me today. Not only did the episode not highlight but no options were listed below the episode.

The other issue I have had is when I play something sometimes I only get audio and a black screen. IF I back out and resume it then plays fine.


----------



## moyekj

innocentfreak said:


> I had this happen to me today. Not only did the episode not highlight but no options were listed below the episode.
> 
> The other issue I have had is when I play something sometimes I only get audio and a black screen. IF I back out and resume it then plays fine.


 The 2nd issue you mention has been around for quite a while (before 20.4.6). I experience that all the time and I've seen a few posts from others with the same issue as well.


----------



## astrohip

innocentfreak said:


> I had this happen to me today. Not only did the episode not highlight but no options were listed below the episode.


Consistently does it first time I enter a group. But not thereafter.

Bug. They'll fix it, next go round...


----------



## CinciDVR

moyekj said:


> I've had several occasions when entering a folder with only 1 entry (wishlist) where 1 and only show is not highlighted. Seems to happen only the 1st time I enter the folder with a new recording. Subsequent tries are OK.


I've seen this too. It always seems to be "The Daily Show", but I'm sure that's just a coincidence.


----------



## slowbiscuit

innocentfreak said:


> I had this happen to me today. Not only did the episode not highlight but no options were listed below the episode.
> 
> The other issue I have had is when I play something sometimes I only get audio and a black screen. IF I back out and resume it then plays fine.


Yep, saw the first issue yesterday - nothing was highlighted.

As mentioned the second issue has been going on for a while now and predates 20.4.6.

It does look like they've finally fixed the issue where you sometimes get mono sound when playing or skipping around in a recording though. I used to see it all the time but haven't seen it at all since 20.4.6 showed up.


----------



## elborak

I see the "nothing is highlighted" issue rather frequently after the latest update.

I did mention this when I took the 20.4.6 survey.


----------



## HeadsUp7Up

Has anyone seen the iHeartRadio app on their box yet?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mrizzo80

I thought I read somewhere that 20.4.6 would enable streaming MPEG4 video to iPads. Is that not true? I tried to stream a video podcast (which I assume is MPEG4 but maybe not) from my Roamio to my iPad recently and it doesn't work.


----------



## lpwcomp

mrizzo80 said:


> I thought I read somewhere that 20.4.6 would enable streaming MPEG4 video to iPads. Is that not true? I tried to stream a video podcast (which I assume is MPEG4 but maybe not) from my Roamio to my iPad recently and it doesn't work.


There was speculation that an update to the Stream would be part of this release, but nothing official from TiVo. TiVo only said "early 2015".


----------



## JWhites

lpwcomp said:


> There was speculation that an update to the Stream would be part of this release, but nothing official from TiVo. TiVo only said "early 2015".


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=526071 I spotted it the other day.


----------



## lpwcomp

JWhites said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=526071 I spotted it the other day.


Does it include h.264 support?


----------



## wmcbrine

lpwcomp said:


> Does it include h.264 support?


Testing... nope.


----------



## ThreeSoFar'sBro

Did a brief search and didn't see anything for this...my Picasa no longer works on my TiVo...anyone else?


----------



## NorthAlabama

ThreeSoFar'sBro said:


> Did a brief search and didn't see anything for this...my Picasa no longer works on my TiVo...anyone else?


same with my pxl for several weeks, called tech support today, it's a known issue, and they said they could download a repair when you report it.

i should have started a thread or called TiVo sooner, but it wasn't a big inconvenience, and i was waiting to see if 20.4.6 fixed it.

eta: tech support fixed the issue, picasa is back up and running as of yesterday.


----------

