# Accurated/intuitive recording



## Lenonn (May 31, 2004)

Accurate/intuitive recording is


> Rather than forcing TV watchers to pad their recordings manually, broadcasters could send a signal to cable and satellite providers when a program begins and another when it ends. Your DVR would grab these signals, ensuring that it starts each recording when it should start and ends it when should endnot at some (often-wrong) scheduled time, but at the real time.


 (according to an article at Slate). The link was posted by a friend on Facebook. I think the author is correct - people would demand it if people knew that it existed or was an actual possibility. Now that I know that it exists, I'd love to have this available.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

That's pretty cool, and would eliminate some problems. On a TiVo (unless clipping is also enabled) I can see it causing unexpected last second conflicts.

Imagine a show holds a tuner a couple minutes longer than scheduled, leaving the TiVo without a free tuner to grab the recording scheduled in the next timeslot. And a signal for start of program doesn't help if you aren't already tuned to that channel to 'listen' for it.

(You could also get unexpected conflict resolution, where an unexpected early end allows the TiVo to record something it thought was a conflict. But that's less of a problem )


As useful as this might be, especially for live events, I'd normally prefer that the guide just accurately reflect the real start and end points so I can (in necessary) make adjustments ahead of time. It's unlikely to be a last minute surprise that your prerecorded program actually runs 30.75 minutes


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

My God, I wish we could do this.

Actually I remember a brief period a few years back when people thought that TiVos _were_ doing this, using XDS. But apparently, that was either a misidentified coincidence, or a now-abandoned experiment. (?)


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## mlippert (Apr 3, 2010)

Actually this could be particularly good when you have shows scheduled that are back to back on the same channel.

I've found that if I want to be sure of catching the end of a show I must in almost all cases record an extra minute or sometimes two. If I don't, I miss the final scene and that is incredibly annoying.

Of course when I do this, it means that the TiVo requires a different tuner to get the show that is scheduled to start after that 1st one. With accurate recording, the TiVo wouldn't have to allocate the 2nd tuner, because it wouldn't be needed until the 1st show ended, and the accurate recording signal would provide the point at which the 1st show could be ended and the next one started.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This would never work. The tuners in the TiVo couldn't monitor other channels waiting for the signal for a show to start, so it would still need to switch at a specified time. And what happens if it changes to the channel and the show has already started and it missed the signal? Or what happens if the networks decide to screw with the signal and a show runs long? Does it change the channel for another recording or does it have to wait for the signal so it knows the current record was done?

If TiVo could somehow monitor and record all channels at the same time then this would be great, but with a limited number of tuners it's still bound by a timed scheduler so this wouldn't really do any good.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

It seems to me there's a space in between "it would solve all problems", and "it wouldn't really do any good". It _could_ do _some_ good, even if that were confined to not cutting programs off at the end prematurely (at least in the absence of conflicting, higher-priority scheduled recordings).


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

But that same effect could be accomplished through smarter padding on the TiVo. In absence if a conflict they could just automatically add a minute or two of padding. And smart scheduling, and sharing of data, from back to back recordings on the same channel would also help. And both of those could be accomplished via software without the need for networks to embed a magic signal in their broadcasts. Because you know if devices were at all dependent on such a signal the networks would try to manipulate it to their advantage.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> But that same effect could be accomplished through smarter padding on the TiVo.


No, it couldn't. I'm guessing that, like me, you're not a sports fan.  Perhaps, unlike me, you also don't share a household with sports fans. Or maybe you just try to watch all sports live?

But even if you just want to record a show that comes on _after_ a sports event...



> _Because you know if devices were at all dependent on such a signal the networks would try to manipulate it to their advantage._


I think a key element of this scenario is imagining a world where the networks weren't quite so hostile to DVRs, or at least, were required to provide accurate data.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wmcbrine said:


> No, it couldn't. I'm guessing that, like me, you're not a sports fan.  Perhaps, unlike me, you also don't share a household with sports fans. Or maybe you just try to watch all sports live?
> 
> But even if you just want to record a show that comes on _after_ a sports event...


You're right I'm not a sports fan. However unless the tuner is already on that channel, or they use some sort of OOB signal, this still wouldn't help. They can't detect a signal for the start/end of a program unless they were actively tuned to the data stream broadcasting that signal. I guess they could do it via IP, but I seriously doubt the networks would get on board with a system like that.



wmcbrine said:


> I think a key element of this scenario is imagining a world where the networks weren't quite so hostile to DVRs, or at least, were required to provide accurate data.


I don't see that ever happening. The networks sole source of profit is adverting. DVRs are a threat to their entire business model. Unless they completely change over to a pay TV system I just don't see them ever getting on board with a system that makes it easier for consumers to record their programs and skip their commercials.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

But of course it's already tuned to that channel. It's recording the late-running game.

And again, there's no reason it has to be voluntary.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> But of course it's already tuned to that channel. It's recording the late-running game.
> 
> And again, there's no reason it has to be voluntary.


That's be useful for CBS sunday night shows, which run anywhere from on-time to 45 minutes late; depending on football.

Now if you've got a later conflict where the show needed to end on time then nothing will help. But for me that's hasn't been the case on Sundays, and I had those shows record with a 1 hour post-pad. This tech would let it use less space on the drive, which would be nice, even though it's potentially tying the tuner up for almost as long.

Thinking about it, I'd be a little concerned about this allowing for delayed starts since if the signal got corrupted or omitted the TiVo might miss the entire recording waiting for the 'start of show' signal... Hmm.

But even for normal shows that might start early the TiVo could (conflicts permitting) flip over to that tuner 5 or even 10 minutes ahead of time to wait for the start signal.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Too much room for error, a clock is much more reliable. And with more automated padding options this whole concept would be mostly unnecessary.

The football thing doesn't happen to us much out here in the West, so not much of an issue for me. The only time it's a problem is when they put those special episodes immediately following the superbowl and the time is completely unknown.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jonathan_S said:


> Thinking about it, I'd be a little concerned about this allowing for delayed starts since if the signal got corrupted or omitted the TiVo might miss the entire recording waiting for the 'start of show' signal... Hmm.


I know the article describes a system with discrete start/stop signals, but I'm not sure that's accurate, and it's certainly not how I'd implement it. Rather, I'd have the system continuously transmitting the ID of the current show (e.g. once per frame, or perhaps a little less often). That may sound like a lot of data, but it isn't really. Consider PSIP data on an ATSC channel -- you can tune in at any time, and get the description; you don't have to have been watching from the start.


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