# HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer



## ebonovic

Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm

Major points:
1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels. Confirmed by DirecTV.
2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)

My comments about #3:
-) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
-) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


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## BOBCAT

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"New high-def will be available only on MPEG 4-compatible boxes (H20, HR20, HR21) and the Ka/ku band dishes," DIRECTV spokesman Robert Mercer told TVPredictions.com today."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

HR21??
Another new box comming out?


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## ebonovic

BOBCAT said:


> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "New high-def will be available only on MPEG 4-compatible boxes (H20, HR20, HR21) and the Ka/ku band dishes," DIRECTV spokesman Robert Mercer told TVPredictions.com today."
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> HR21??
> Another new box comming out?


H21 has already been announced... but the HR21 hasn't...


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## litzdog911

He probably meant "H21". No "HR21" has been announced.


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## trausch

ebonovic said:


> H21 has already been announced... but the HR21 hasn't...


What are you implying. Is your comment to be read as

H21 has already been announced... but the HR21 hasn't...

or as

H21 has already been announced... but the HR21 hasn't...*yet*


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## ebonovic




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## RonH54

ebonovic said:


> Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm
> 
> Major points:
> 1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels. Confirmed by DirecTV.
> 2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
> 3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)
> 
> My comments about #3:
> -) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
> -) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


I called today and got the upgrade with HR20 for free. I'll be moving my HR10-250 to another room and use it as Std. Receiver/recorder since I only have 1 HD TV at the moment.


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## Marino13

ebonovic said:


> Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm
> 
> Major points:
> 1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels. Confirmed by DirecTV.
> 2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
> 3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)
> 
> My comments about #3:
> -) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
> -) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


Do you think the $99 offer is for anyone? I just got a free HR20 last week and that makes two that they have given me in the last 8 months. I have three HR10-250's that I would like to keep and would love to take advantage of the $99 offer but I am wondering if I could since I just got a free one. What should I say when I call?


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## BGLeduc

This deal does reset the two year commitment clock, correct? 

We are a Tivo family, and I am loath to think of life w/o Tivo. But were it not for a new two year contract, I would like to take advantage of the offer, so I could experience the new HD DVR for myself. 

But, I would want to keep my Tivo/cable options open w/o incurring a financial penalty. 

Brian


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## ebonovic

Marino13 said:


> Do you think the $99 offer is for anyone? I just got a free HR20 last week and that makes two that they have given me in the last 8 months. I have three HR10-250's that I would like to keep and would love to take advantage of the $99 offer but I am wondering if I could since I just got a free one. What should I say when I call?


That is going to be tough to get a third... best thing you can do is call and see what they say


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## ebonovic

BGLeduc said:


> This deal does reset the two year commitment clock, correct?


Yes it would


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## trex527

99 bucks huh?I just upgraded my dish to HD recently,bought a hr10 250 off ebay around the same time and got a hr 20 in my frontroom so I wonder if I would just trade in my hr10 or what?


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## generalpatton71

I got three free, They meant to give me two but the installer said the work order said 3. That was about a month ago. So far I do wish I had a S3 that worked with D* but life with the HR20 is pretty good to. My biggest complaint is the 50 Season Pass limit. My HR10-250 had well over a hundred season passes. That said it hasn't missed a recording, it's fast, and the esats port worked great for a bigger HD.


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## Todd

I got my HR20 this week for $20. Actually, due to the upgrade installers not showing multiple times Tuesday, D* will end up paying me $100 for it plus 3 free mos of HBO and Starz. The HR20 is alright, but the TiVo interface still can't be beat. What really annoys me so far though (aside from the lack of dual live buffers...) is how poorly the skip to tick mark and skip to beg/end is implemented. Most of the time, it just flat out doesn't work right. And having to hold down the keys is a major PITA! I hope their programmers are working on that one!


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## coachO

Sounds like a good offer execept for the 2 year commitment but there must be some reason it sounds too good to be true.

The TIVO HD is down to $269 and no commitment. I just think keeping my options open until they actually produce more HD and a new receiver (HR?) might be a smart idea. Anyway, I sill like my HR10-250 that has never missed a recording.


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## Jebberwocky!

I just ordered three for free ($20 shipping) w/ new dish.

Time will tell how I like them


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## RS4

> coachO Sounds like a good offer execept for the 2 year commitment but there must be some reason it sounds too good to be true.
> 
> The TIVO HD is down to $269 and no commitment. I just think keeping my options open until they actually produce more HD and a new receiver (HR?) might be a smart idea. Anyway, I sill like my HR10-250 that has never missed a recording.


DirecTV is trying to buy up the HR10-250 market by giving the new boxes away. They want to lock you in for another 2 years and hope that you forget about the Tivo. Who knows, maybe by then the majority of the HR20 users will like the box, because surveys show they don't now.

Think about it - it makes sense for DirecTV to get us converted now before the new HD channels come out. They want to free up the mepg2 HD channels and they want to take advantage of the hoopla of the new mpeg4 HD. If we're not on board by the end of the year, they know a lot of us won't budge - waiting to see if DirecTV and Tivo make up and offer us an mepg4 Tivo or Dtivo box.


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## ebonovic

RS4 said:


> DirecTV is trying to buy up the HR10-250 market by giving the new boxes away. They want to lock you in for another 2 years and hope that you forget about the Tivo. Who knows, maybe by then the majority of the HR20 users will like the box, because surveys show they don't now.
> 
> Think about it - it makes sense for DirecTV to get us converted now before the new HD channels come out. They want to free up the mepg2 HD channels and they want to take advantage of the hoopla of the new mpeg4 HD. If we're not on board by the end of the year, they know a lot of us won't budge - waiting to see if DirecTV and Tivo make up and offer us an mepg4 Tivo or Dtivo box.


How about they are offering those people that have spent anywhere from $0 - $1299 and ability to upgrade to an HR20 to get all the HD channels they won't get.

It is not a conspiracy theory.... "You" (as in the community) said you want a low cost or free upgrade to the HR10-250... but now that it has come... you still want to throw darts. If you are that upset about the 2 year commitment....
Call and see if you can get it wavied... but then if you can't... well then you know exactly where you stand...

It doesn't matter if the free up the MPEG2 space now... the MPEG-4 content is on two completely different SATs.... If they think everyone is going to convert in less then 3 months? come on.... that is even a stretch for you.

If you honestly truely feel... there is going to be another DirecTv / TiVo box... don't do the upgrade... and wait... and wait...

But when the time comes that you come to the realization that there isn't going to be a box... and have to get the HR20 (or what ever is available, depending on how long you wait)... don't have any remorse about not enjoying the HD content for all that time you are waiting.

You are not obligated to upgrade, or swap out.
Only swap out if you want to... it is that simple.


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## mbarloewen

I just tried to upgrade my HD Tivo and the CSR would not budge from the $199 price, plus shipping and handling. When I asked for Retention, I got disconnected.

Anyone have a direct number for Retention?

Mike


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## utvnut

I forgot, is a new HR20 that replaces an OWNED HR10 owned?

Thanks


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## deezel629

I got the upgrade for $19.99 (S&H fee), but I also got HBO and Startz free for 6 months each. 

Now if only I could get them to remove the $99 upgrade fee that they mistakenly put on my bill.


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## ebonovic

utvnut said:


> I forgot, is a new HR20 that replaces an OWNED HR10 owned?
> 
> Thanks


No it is not...
They actually don't "replace" your HR10... they are just offering it to you at a lower rate... you can keep your HR10


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## Cudahy

We've all known for a long time that we could only get mpeg4 channels with Tivo when(if)a new HDTivo box came out. There is increasing hope of an improving relationship between Directv and Tivo that might make this possible. Why are so many HR20 supporters trying to make us switch now?


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## ebonovic

Cudahy said:


> We've all known for a long time that we could only get mpeg4 channels with Tivo when(if)a new HDTivo box came out. There is increasing hope of an improving relationship between Directv and Tivo that might make this possible. Why are so many HR20 supporters trying to make us switch now?


#1) We are not trying to make you switch... we honestly (well at least me, as that is all I can speak for) don't care if you switch or not.

#2) If you want the new HD channels... you have to switch.. .at least to a non-DVR H20, or the DVR HR20... it is as simple as that... No software update, can fix the limiations in the HR10-250 in that regard.

#3) If you all have been watching the announcements, and articles... you will also see that TiVo themselves have said:


> Added Klugman: "None of our product development is going to satellite."


http://ibc.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=164772

That article was July 23rd...

So either they changed their mind about that 7 days later...
The updates to the DTiVos are already done, and are just going through testing..

Or there really isn't anything "different" about what we have known for a long time now...

So unless some radically shift changes at TiVo, Inc... umm... it could be a VERY long wait for there to be a MPEG-4 compatible HD-DTiVo

If you don't want the new HD, or eventually any SAT based HD... don't switch..
You are not forced to switch, your HR10-250 will still continue to work with OTA and SD


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## mbarloewen

Is there a magic number to call?

I'm 0-3 in dealing with csrs today on this issue...


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## ebonovic

mbarloewen said:


> Is there a magic number to call?
> 
> I'm 0-3 in dealing with csrs today on this issue...


Try again tomorrow or Monday, when a different crew is in.


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## jfh3

ebonovic said:


> So unless some radically shift changes at TiVo, Inc... umm... it could be a VERY long wait for there to be a MPEG-4 compatible HD-DTiVo


You of all people should know better - TiVo isn't doing development on a sat platform because they don't want that market - they aren't doing development on a sat platform because neither E* or D* want them to.

If DirecTV bought a clue and realized what a new Tivo HD would bring to the table, especially if the E* suit is finalized in Tivo's favor, Tivo would have a new HDTivo box in about 3 months ...


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## mbarloewen

ebonovic said:


> Try again tomorrow or Monday, when a different crew is in.


Doing the old retention route worked for me in the end.

Everything free, but had to pay $19.99 shipping and handling.

Excited...


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## bigpuma

jfh3 said:


> You of all people should know better - TiVo isn't doing development on a sat platform because they don't want that market - they aren't doing development on a sat platform because neither E* or D* want them to.
> 
> If DirecTV bought a clue and realized what a new Tivo HD would bring to the table, especially if the E* suit is finalized in Tivo's favor, Tivo would have a new HDTivo box in about 3 months ...


His point was that there is nothing in development now which means if DirecTV or DISH decided they did want a TiVo based DVR it would take a long time to put it out. Look at how long it is taking to put out the Comcast TiVo. I remember hearing that it might be out by August or September of last year. There is no way they could put it out in 3 months we would be lucky to get it in 2 years.


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## newsposter

great, i may get hr20 and it be obsolete


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## RS4

bigpuma said:


> His point was that there is nothing in development now which means if DirecTV or DISH decided they did want a TiVo based DVR it would take a long time to put it out. Look at how long it is taking to put out the Comcast TiVo. I remember hearing that it might be out by August or September of last year. There is no way they could put it out in 3 months we would be lucky to get it in 2 years.


We really have no idea whether its 3 months or 2 years. My guess is that it would be closer to a year. Tivo already as 3 HD boxes they've made. It would appear the only thing they need to add is the new mpeg4 signaling.

As I've said before, I think we'll have a better idea shortly after the beginning of the year. The folks looking for the fall mpeg4 shows will be on board by then, so DirecTV will have a pretty good count of how many Tivo only users are left.

That was an interesting article that Earl linked to. However, we have statements from DirecTV saying they are adding new support to the existing boxes and that they are exploring other alternatives. So, those statements would seem to counter what Earl found. Who knows, they may be in the initial stages and have signed NDA?

I think there is hope for us Tivo users until shortly after the new year starts, assuming that the new owners have taken over by then. If they are going to consider a Tivo alternative, you can bet that decision will be high on the list.


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## HiDefGator

It would take three months of mgmt arguing before engineers were ever allowed to start looking at the problem. Haven't you guys ever read Dilbert?


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## TyroneShoes

bigpuma said:


> His point was that there is nothing in development now which means if DirecTV or DISH decided they did want a TiVo based DVR it would take a long time to put it out...


 Pure CEO spin. "Nothing in development" is code for "nothing authorized in development regarding any speculative testing at DTV based on an agreement with Tivo". He's fronting spin to jockey for position, which is rarely based in reality.

If Tivo is smart (and the answer to that is pretty obvious), they've already done that testing themselves. Making something like a M4-capable DTivo happen is very little about getting the software/hardware up to speed, and everything about hammering out the deal, which is what delayed Tivo/CumCast. Tivo and its software are both modular, and developing a M4-capable prototype is easy and cheap for them to do. Child's play, probably. The only thing signiificantly different is the decoder chip.

Tivo very likely could ask for a meeting and show up with a fully-working one-off prototype that they could demo to Malone right in his office, if he hasn't got one in his living room already. All Tivo needs for a prototype is a HR10 with a few lines of code tweaked and the DVB tuners removed and replaced by off-the-shelf DVB tuner modules that are MPEG-4 capable, which could even be the very same module inside a HR20. That's relatively easy.

If both sides like the idea, they begin to hammer out a deal. THAT is when the waiting begins.


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## charlieg

I emailed them last week and got a message to call back retention with a pin. I currently have one HR10-250, one HD Samsung and two SD receivers. I was looking for two HR20 DVR's and two HD receivers. In the end, I was able to get one HR20 and one HD receiver for only a shipping charge (includes new dish installation). The second HD receiver cost me $99. She said something like only being eligible for one HR20 "deal" every six months. I don't think it was the best deal around but it's not the worst either. Installation is set for the 18th. I'll move the HR10-250 to a bedroom for now.


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## BBREAL

I'll keep it brief. I read the forum this morning before calling to get some ideas. Upgraded to new MPEG 4 DVR for 19.95 + tax including installation and new 5 LNB dish. Keeping my HR10-250 and putting old std Tivo DVR in the closet. No 2 yr commit.

Monthly bill stays the same but I did get $10/mo for 12/mo for all the hassle. Had to wait a long time on the phone for a supervisor - Laura - but then it went smooth. First person who answered seemed to be reading a script and wanted $199 + 2 yr commit.

Good luck all.

Brian


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## RS4

BBREAL said:


> I'll keep it brief. I read the forum this morning before calling to get some ideas. Upgraded to new MPEG 4 DVR for 19.95 + tax including installation and new 5 LNB dish. Keeping my HR10-250 and putting old std Tivo DVR in the closet. No 2 yr commit.
> 
> Monthly bill stays the same but I did get $10/mo for 12/mo for all the hassle. Had to wait a long time on the phone for a supervisor - Laura - but then it went smooth. First person who answered seemed to be reading a script and wanted $199 + 2 yr commit.
> 
> Good luck all.
> 
> Brian


Brian, how did you get out of the commitment?


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## BBREAL

not sure exactly, but Laura said since she overrided the 99.995 price which was within per authority, down from previous $199.95, the commitment requirement disappeared. I would have excepted 1 yr, but not two which is what I was prepared to say.


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## RS4

BBREAL said:


> not sure exactly, but Laura said since she overrided the 99.995 price which was within per authority, down from previous $199.95, the commitment requirement disappeared. I would have excepted 1 yr, but not two which is what I was prepared to say.


Just out of curiosity I called to see what they would offer. I finally got to retention and the lady there really played dumb. She finally came back with a 19.95 offer but wouldn't budge on the 2-yr commitment.


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## Jebberwocky!

the two year comittment doesn't bother me - I'd gladly pay the penalty if something out better appealed to me.

This presumes I get the new stuff for free. I paid $700 for my first HDTivo, $300 for my second and my third one was IIRC $100/lease.

So faced with paying $$ up front or at the back end I'd rather pay in the end if applicable.


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## 94SupraTT

ebonovic said:


> Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm
> 
> Major points:
> 1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels.  Confirmed by DirecTV.
> 2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
> 3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)
> 
> My comments about #3:
> -) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
> -) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


Now only if they would eliminate the 2 year commitment, or reduce it to 1 year.


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## NYURDRMS

My HR10-250 was starting to die. It has been causing all sorts of problems lately. Losing the second feed, to just freezing.

Anyway, I decided I am tired of this thing and the terrible software, I have finally decide to go with the new HR20 for both of my HR10's. I am not sure it will be a whole lot better, but since it is DTV's I would hope they are better with trying to make it work than they seem to be with TIVO.

I called the CSR and was given the deal of $198 for both to be upgraded. When I told him that wasn't good enough since I paid over $1000 for the first and just recently leased the second, I asked for retention, he said that he couldn't transfer me to retention just to get a better price, that I had to threaten to leave. Well, you can guess what I said next. CANCEL.

When I said that he mumbled something like well you will have to pay $12/month for every month left on your contract. At this point I would have gladly paid $198 to cancel.

He finally transferred me to retention, and I spoke with one of the nicest CSR's I have ever spoken with at DTV. She said since I have been with them since 2001 and have Sunday Ticket and Nascar, she would upgrade both machines with new dish for free (not even shipping). I did get hit with a new two year agreement, but as long as I can get Sunday Ticket and the HD channels, I don't plan on going anywhere anyway. I actually think I might write a letter to DTV to let them know of the good service I got from this lady in retention.

Good luck.


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## dthreet

I called directv couple months back and since I owned my HR10-250 they gave me an HR20-100 for $99 bucks w/ no service commitment and I still own both. Not a bad deal.


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## MurrayW

I have 3 HR10-250's that I plan to keep active on my account (hoping that the rumored plan that allows as many receivers on your account as you want with no mirroring fees becomes a reality on Sep 1st). I called tonight and said "Cancel Service" when I got the automated system and got connected to a CSR who I assume was in the retention department.

I told him that I was thinking about canceling my service because I would have to pay $600 ($199 each per the DirecTV website) to "upgrade" all three of my HR10-250's to the the HR20 MPEG4 DVR's and was not too happy with paying for Superfan along with the increase in the price for Sunday Ticket. Here is what he offered:
1. Superfan for free.
2. 4 x $20 monthly credit to offset price of Sunday Ticket.
3. 3 HR20's + new dish install for $300 with $150 in credits.

I told him the first 2 sounded fine, but I would rather add the HR20's one at a time -- one now and the other two in a few months. He gave me the standard $19.95 + tax deal on the first HR20 and said I would not be required to send back any of my HR10-250's (2 owned and 1 leased). Then he added a note in my account that I could get 2 additional HR20's in the future for $200 plus a $100 credit. When I get my first HR20 and then again when I get the other 2, it will extend my contract for 2 years which isn't a big deal since I am being held hostage by the Sunday Ticket being exclusive to DirecTV anyway!

He did say that when I get the 2 additional HR20's at some point in the future, I would be required to send back 2 HR10's...I said that I didn't think I should have to send back ones that I owned, but told him I would deal with that when I get ready to get the other 2 HR20's.

All-in-all, it was relatively painless and I will end up getting 3 HR20's for less than $50 each.

Murray


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## generalpatton71

MurrayW said:


> I have 3 HR10-250's that I plan to keep active on my account (hoping that the rumored plan that allows as many receivers on your account as you want with no mirroring fees becomes a reality on Sep 1st). I called tonight and said "Cancel Service" when I got the automated system and got connected to a CSR who I assume was in the retention department.
> 
> I told him that I was thinking about canceling my service because I would have to pay $600 ($199 each per the DirecTV website) to "upgrade" all three of my HR10-250's to the the HR20 MPEG4 DVR's and was not too happy with paying for Superfan along with the increase in the price for Sunday Ticket. Here is what he offered:
> 1. Superfan for free.
> 2. 4 x $20 monthly credit to offset price of Sunday Ticket.
> 3. 3 HR20's + new dish install for $300 with $150 in credits.
> 
> I told him the first 2 sounded fine, but I would rather add the HR20's one at a time -- one now and the other two in a few months. He gave me the standard $19.95 + tax deal on the first HR20 and said I would not be required to send back any of my HR10-250's (2 owned and 1 leased). Then he added a note in my account that I could get 2 additional HR20's in the future for $200 plus a $100 credit. When I get my first HR20 and then again when I get the other 2, it will extend my contract for 2 years which isn't a big deal since I am being held hostage by the Sunday Ticket being exclusive to DirecTV anyway!
> 
> He did say that when I get the 2 additional HR20's at some point in the future, I would be required to send back 2 HR10's...I said that I didn't think I should have to send back ones that I owned, but told him I would deal with that when I get ready to get the other 2 HR20's.
> 
> All-in-all, it was relatively painless and I will end up getting 3 HR20's for less than $50 each.
> 
> Murray


I don't get this "give back" crap. You don't need to give back anything. People get confused by the word "swap" in this situation. They have no need for them besides the fact that maybe a installer might just "find" a new receiver for himself :down: . Seriously don't give up any of your HR10.


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## newsposter

i bet some confusion is from new csrs that never had to deal with owned stuff. Or dont care to.


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## dswallow

There's no excuse but greed for a 2-year commitment (or even a 1-year commitment) nowadays. You're required to return the leased equipment, so there's no upfront subsidizing of it involved anymore.


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## bundini

Rekindling the love: TiVo, DirecTV announce big update, more collaboration

By Ken Fisher | Published: August 01, 2007 - 12:46PM CT

The recently launched TiVo HD has DirecTV's leadership itching to look like anything other than a dead end for TiVo fans. Come 2008, DirecTV's TiVo users will get a major update to their DVRs. The message from DirecTV HQ appears to be "don't bail on us yet, TiVo users."
Related Stories

* TiVo, DirecTV may get back together; Comcast to launch TiVo in August
* DirecTV's HD TiVo gets updated
* Milestone: TiVo software certified for use on Comcast DVRs

In early June we reported on signs of renewed courtship between TiVo and DirecTV's new ownership, Liberty Media. TiVo CEO Tom Rogers hinted at the possibilities between the two parties when he noted that Liberty isn't in the business of making DVRs, unlike DirecTV's previous owners, News Corp. TiVo's profitable relationship with DirecTV came unraveled years ago when News Corp's influence led them to roll their own DVR solution and begin phasing out TiVo altogether.

Clearly the road map has changed, as the two companies today announced something that I thought I'd never see: a series of major updates planned for Series 2-based DVRs. This includes all TiVo units DirecTV has rolled out in recent years, including the HD TiVo HR 10-250, which is based on the Series 2 platform.

According to the announcement, early 2008 will bring three much needed updates: web-based scheduling ("Remote Booking "), the Recently Deleted Folder feature, and Overlap Protection. The announcement was not exhaustive, and also noted that additional updates are coming, as the two companies "will continue to explore ways to bring future enhancements."

"It is important to us that our customers with TiVo service also have access to the latest DVR technology and we look forward to exploring additional opportunities with TiVo," said Derek Chang, executive vice president, Content Strategy and Development for DirecTV, Inc.
DirecTV sweating cable

Today's announcement puts to rest any notion that DirecTV is still on the warpath against TiVo. What we're seeing is a steadily increasing commitment between the two which began in April when TiVo and DirecTV announced that they would support their joint offerings through 2010. Few expected that it would mean added functionality, however.

Why the change? While the switch in ownership at DirecTV has a lot to do with it, also note that as of last spring, DirecTV had 2.6 million customers using TiVo. That's 2.6 million customers who might perk up and take note of TiVo's growing strength among cable offerings. 

It's simply never looked better for a TiVo user to be on cable or Verizon FIOS TV than now. The launch of the cable-only TiVo HD brings HD-support down to a more palatable price than did the Series 3, and yet the feature set is rather robust. Also, Comcast is going to be launching their own TiVo-based DVR in the coming weeks that will be integrated into a Comcast set-top box. Translation: this fall and winter could be something of a renaissance for TiVo in the cable market. They have a reasonably-priced HD unit, CableCARD support is finally ironed out, and we're about to see how TiVo fares as a software provider to Comcast.

So why is DirecTV announcing this update 6+ months in advance of its availability? The answer should be rather obvious.

Nevertheless, a big problem still looms for HD TiVo users on DirecTV. Whenever DirecTV gets around to activating their newest satellites with local channels in HD, those channels will be broadcast in MPEG4, which is incompatible with the existing HR 10-250. So, while these upcoming updates do scratch some itches, they don't scratch one of the biggest, namely that the existing HD TiVo cannot handle the additional HD channels that DirecTV has planned.

The big question is, could we see a new TiVo unit from DirecTV around that time? A year ago I would have laughed, but now I'm not so sure.


----------



## HalfFull

I called last week to upgrade to HR20 (even spoke with retention). Been with DirectTV for several years and all they would offer was $149 and I had to give them my **OWNED** 10-250. I asked for the 19.99 deal...of course the answer was no.

So I told *retention* they would be losing me to DISH or cable. He wouldn't budge, and just started beating up on Dish networks and talking about the much better DirectTV service is. Was not impressed by his arguments or his attitude. 

Called Dish and they gave me their High Def DVR, another Standard DVR (that works with two TVs), 10 months free HD, free install (after credit), and 3 months free STARZ. Commitment is 18 months. Install is Saturday, and then I will call DirectTV back and cancel.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

HalfFull said:


> I called last week to upgrade to HR20 (even spoke with retention). Been with DirectTV for several years and all they would offer was $149 and I had to give them my **OWNED** 10-250. I asked for the 19.99 deal...of course the answer was no.
> 
> So I told *retention* they would be losing me to DISH or cable. He wouldn't budge, and just started beating up on Dish networks and talking about the much better DirectTV service is. Was not impressed by his arguments or his attitude.
> 
> Called Dish and they gave me their High Def DVR, another Standard DVR (that works with two TVs), 10 months free HD, free install (after credit), and 3 months free STARZ. Commitment is 18 months. Install is Saturday, and then I will call DirectTV back and cancel.


should have called back and tried again before you bailed - if at first you don't succeed, try and try again

That saying is never more accurate when dealing with CSR's


----------



## fasTLane

Look forward to member reviews of all the new mpeg4 channels in regard to quality, syncs, etc.


----------



## HalfFull

Jebberwocky! said:


> should have called back and tried again before you bailed - if at first you don't succeed, try and try again
> 
> That saying is never more accurate when dealing with CSR's


I hear you, but became irritated after hanging upl with retention. During the call, I stayed calm and presented a reasonable argument of why I should not have to turn in my owned equipment...never once raising my voice or threating to leave Direct TV during our discussion (although I did calmly tell him right before I hung up that I would likely leave DirectTV).


----------



## joelq

mbarloewen said:


> I just tried to upgrade my HD Tivo and the CSR would not budge from the $199 price, plus shipping and handling. When I asked for Retention, I got disconnected.
> 
> Anyone have a direct number for Retention?
> 
> Mike


Call 1-800-DIRECTV and when the recording asks you the reason for your call, say "cancel service". The recording should come back and clarify whether or not you want to cancel service, or change your service (or something to that effect), say again "cancel service". You should be transferred immediately.

That's what I did about 4 weeks ago and I got a free 5-LNB dish and HR20.


----------



## Charlutz

I paid the $20 shipping for 2 new HR20's, one new R15 (wanted my young kids and wife to see the same interface on all the tvs), free dish, multiswitch and install. One of my HR10's was leased, one owned. CSR said I could sell both. Got $175 for the first on ebay with buy it now. Second one is taking bids. My family liked the tivo interface better but they (including my 5 y.o.) are having no problems finding, recording and watching their shows. One of the HR20's stopped taking trickplay commands, but a quick reset seems to have fixed it. I bowed to the MPEG4 and possible move of NFL season ticket, SciFi HD, National Geo HD. Hope it was the right choice.


----------



## Ereth

generalpatton71 said:


> I don't get this "give back" crap. You don't need to give back anything. People get confused by the word "swap" in this situation. They have no need for them besides the fact that maybe a installer might just "find" a new receiver for himself :down: . Seriously don't give up any of your HR10.


It's not confusion. I argued with the CSR and she insisted I would have to give them my HR10-250. IF I gave them the HR10-250 they would charge me less for the HR20 than if I did not. There was no confusion on my part, she was quite clear that they were going to charge me $299 if I kept my HR10-250.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Ereth said:


> It's not confusion. I argued with the CSR and she insisted I would have to give them my HR10-250. IF I gave them the HR10-250 they would charge me less for the HR20 than if I did not. There was no confusion on my part, she was quite clear that they were going to charge me $299 if I kept my HR10-250.


you need to flirt more with the CSR!

This is playing Russian Roulette - every round you gat a different response.

When they first mentioned returning the 10-250 I said that was a deal killer and thanked them - they asked me to wait a minute and caved pretty soon after.


----------



## Charlutz

Ereth said:


> It's not confusion. I argued with the CSR and she insisted I would have to give them my HR10-250. IF I gave them the HR10-250 they would charge me less for the HR20 than if I did not. There was no confusion on my part, she was quite clear that they were going to charge me $299 if I kept my HR10-250.


If you need something plausible to say, ask them what they can do to help you transfer your recordings to the new dvr because you have things saved on there you want to keep. My CSR said as long as the installer didn't take it, it was fine for me to keep it. But I had the "saved recordings" argument ready. The tech didn't ask for it. In fact, I gave him a gatorade (95 degree day) and a $20 tip (clean install and knowledgable installer), and he gave me an extra dish so I'd have one for tailgates. I think the gatorade and a tip would allow you to keep anything you wanted, no matter what the csr says.


----------



## Ereth

In point of fact, I DO have things on there I want to keep. I haven't watched most of last years "Eureka" for instance, and it's sitting on my HR10-250.

Now that I'm in San Antonio, I'm actually in a city that gets it's locals through MPEG4 so I really should give the HR20 a try, but I do not want to give up my HR10-250, especially as I paid $1000 for it!


----------



## HalfFull

Charlutz said:


> My CSR said as long as the installer didn't take it, it was fine for me to keep it.


Mighty fine D* to let you keep your own equipment. All for the pleasure of a two year commitment, paying $149 to leasing their HD hardware, and pay the HD fee....what a deal!

Meanwhile, E* gives me their equipment, free HD for 10 months, and HBO for 3 months.

I don't get it...DirectTV spend millions to attract new customers and won't even match their competition's HD equipment price to keep their existing customer (me!). Stupid.


----------



## mooondog

My HR10-250 died a quick death yesterday. Started rebooting about every 30 minutes. Was very unresponsive and slow as well. I'd hit "Pause" and it would pause about 2 minutes later. Never had these issues before. Tried to wipe it clean and froze for hours. When I got up in the morning, it still said "Clearing and deleting everything. This will take an hour". Called this morning and said they'll send out a replacement for "free". 

Edit ---> forgot to mention they told me to dispose of the HR10-250. 

I purchased my HR10 at Best Buy about a year ago for $500. What does "free" mean in DirecTV's world? Will I basically be leasing it from them? What unit should I expect to receive?

Thanks
Eric

PS --- luckily I just finished catching up on John From Cincinnati. Looking forward to the season finale next week!!!


----------



## Ereth

Well, I called back and had to talk to Movers Connection since I just moved from Florida to Texas.

She gave me the HR20 for $99 but it's an OWN, not a lease. She said they could still do that for people who owned the old equipment. She wanted the HR10-250 back but I told her I had a bunch of stuff on it I hadn't watched and she said that I could keep it and use it as a Standard Def receiver. 

I get the new dish and multiswitch and the install for $99, and I get $10 off for six months and 3 months of Showtime for free. I ended up with a 1year commitment. That was the best I could do.

But it's good enough. I need Sunday Ticket to see my Jacksonville Jaguars.


----------



## barracuda3443

I was out of town all weekend & just saw this thread a few minutes ago. I'm moving in 2 weeks & called Movers Connection today for the 3rd time about a half hour ago. 

First call last week: HR20 for $99, I wanted it for $19, they wouldn't do it, I said I'd call back

Second call 30 mins. later: HR20 for $199 OR HR20 for $99 if I turn in the HR10. I wanted to keep the HR10, so I said I'd call back.

Third call today: HR20 for FREE ($20 shipping), I keep the HR10. New dish included. Didn't even have to fight for it. 

The CSR tried to slide in a switch from one of our older 40 Hour Tivos to I guess the R15. I stopped her immediately. I am prepared to learn a new OS, my wife however...


----------



## Jebberwocky!

HalfFull said:


> Mighty fine D* to let you keep your own equipment. All for the pleasure of a two year commitment, paying $149 to leasing their HD hardware, and pay the HD fee....what a deal!
> 
> Meanwhile, E* gives me their equipment, free HD for 10 months, and HBO for 3 months.
> 
> I don't get it...DirectTV spend millions to attract new customers and won't even match their competition's HD equipment price to keep their existing customer (me!). Stupid.


Wnyone who paid $149 for their equipment should think again before calling anything stupid


----------



## pdxguy

I just called retention and am getting my second HR20 free, no S&H, and 6 mo. free HBO. I couldn't get her to waive the 2 yr. extension, though. I got my first HR20 last November.

I'm keeping my HR10-250, and will use it as long as I can until the new channels come on board.


----------



## MurrayW

generalpatton71 said:


> I don't get this "give back" crap. You don't need to give back anything. People get confused by the word "swap" in this situation. They have no need for them besides the fact that maybe a installer might just "find" a new receiver for himself :down: . Seriously don't give up any of your HR10.


I am not planning on giving back either one of my owned HR10's and when it comes time for me to order 2 more HR20's, I will resist giving back the leased one -- I may not even go for 2 more HR20's anyway, since I think 5 HD DVR's "may" be enough! 
I just didn't want to argue with the CSR at this time since I got essentially what I wanted out of the call for now.


----------



## MurrayW

Ereth said:


> But it's good enough. I need Sunday Ticket to see my Jacksonville Jaguars.


You won't need Sunday Ticket to see 2 Jaguar games this year when they play the Texans...but if you want to see a Jaguar victory, then Sunday Ticket is defintely needed!  Seems the only team the Texans can beat is Jacksonville!


----------



## kevin80302

I have a dieing HR10-250 so it looks like I am finally going to upgrade to the HR20.

I tried calling the regular CSR's but kept getting the $199 offer so I tried the "cancel service" voice command and got an interesting offer.

They offered me a $99 HR20 $10 off my plan if I buy NFL-ST plus I get free superfan (not that big of a deal without the 2nd buffer).

The offer is good for 5 days and they gave me an 800 number and PIN number to call back directly.

Is that a good deal?


If my HR10 is really dieing... can I call customer service and get some sort of better deal under a replacement? I hate being forced to pay $$$ because the leased box is going to crap.

Thanks

Kevin


----------



## BigBearf

DTV offer, 
HR20 for $19.95 S+H leased and get to keep HR10. 
Superfan $100 no credits. D* would not budge on the price. 
Install about a month from now. Tried to get it shipped but no luck 

Fair offer but not the best. 
BigBearf


----------



## Jebberwocky!

kevin80302 said:


> IThey offered me a $99 HR20 $10 off my plan if I buy NFL-ST plus I get free superfan (not that big of a deal without the 2nd buffer).
> 
> Is that a good deal?
> 
> Kevin


I wouldn't pay a penny more than shipping. When I called I was nice but firm.

Of course I've been a customer for 5+ years, someone who has been a customer for a year may have less leverage.


----------



## Johnny1138

I called DTV the other week and they offered two free HR20s since I have been a subscriber for quite a few years, and it probably doesn't hurt that I have been renewing Sunday Ticket and Gameplan all of those years.

However, I am probably going to cancel Sunday Ticket this year -- I have alternative game day plans. Therefore, I was wondering if you folks getting free HR20s also have Sunday Ticket, and if anyone thinks that as soon as I cancel ST, they'll probably decide to not offer 2+ free HR20s. My guess is that they will still offer them after a few calls to retention, but I'm curious if anyone can confirm being offered the free HR20s without NFL/NCAA packages.


----------



## joerockt

mbarloewen said:


> I just tried to upgrade my HD Tivo and the CSR would not budge from the $199 price, plus shipping and handling. When I asked for Retention, I got disconnected.
> 
> Anyone have a direct number for Retention?
> 
> Mike


Unfreaking real. The same EXACT thing just happened to me. CSR wouldnt budge on the $199, I asked for retention, after giving my number and name and asked about the HR20, she started speaking and I got disconnected.

What's really pissing me off is that she has my number, yet I haven't received a call back 

How the heck are you people getting these free HR20 upgrades?? I've been a customer for almost 3 years and have had HD service for at least 2.


----------



## joerockt

Well, I called back, and this time I used "Cancel Service" and was immediately connected with a retention rep. I just told her I would like to be upgraded and she didnt even blink an eye and gave me the HR20 for the $19.95 shipping price. Installed this Sunday.

Crazy the reps are so inconsistent, but hey, I got what I wanted so its all good...Thanks for the info, people...


----------



## scooby_doo_53

I got a different story yesterday. I'm getting two HR20's for $199, as well as the new dish. BUT she NEVER said anything about a 2 year commitment; said I could keep all of my receivers (2 HR10's, 1 H20, and my old, old Sony); and lastly I would OWN the new HR20's! I had her repeat everything, and that's the way it shows on the order. I've been a customer since 1996 or 1997 (can't remember for sure), so I've never seen anything on my bill about 2 year commitment - so far, it's not there yet.


----------



## ebonovic

You won't see anything on your bill, until they are activated: When your units are activated, you will see them as "leased" units.


----------



## newsposter

yea now all they need to do is put the date of commitment on the bill and then we will have the full disclosure we so crave


----------



## scooby_doo_53

ebonovic said:


> You won't see anything on your bill, until they are activated: When your units are activated, you will see them as "leased" units.


I guess I'll see, but she said I would own them because I owned my other equipment. I had told her that earlier this year, when I received the H20 as a replacement through the protection plan, they tried to put a "lease" on that unit (and I had them take it off). I played dumb saying I didn't understand the whole leasing thing anyway.

I guess it's no big deal, but I was surprised to hear her say that. She was a retention CSR. I don't know if that matters or not in their knowledge base. I guess I feel that if they are in retention, they should know a little bit more about what they are talking about, rather than the "front line" CSR's.


----------



## kcmurphy88

mbarloewen said:


> I just tried to upgrade my HD Tivo and the CSR would not budge from the $199 price, plus shipping and handling. When I asked for Retention, I got disconnected.
> 
> Anyone have a direct number for Retention?
> 
> Mike


How long have you been a subscriber? They tend to give a better deal if you've been wiht them for a long time. If you are still in your sign-up period, they probably aren't inclined to give you a deal so soon again.


----------



## G-Funk

On the phone with Larissa in Idaho, and once I mentioned that I could probably get free equipment from competition, she told me that she would be happy to give me 2 HD-DVR's and 1 HD box for 19.95 plus tax. Going from HD-Tivo, and R-10 box.

Needless to say, I am pleased!!!


----------



## pdxguy

Johnny1138 said:


> I called DTV the other week and they offered two free HR20s since I have been a subscriber for quite a few years, and it probably doesn't hurt that I have been renewing Sunday Ticket and Gameplan all of those years.
> 
> However, I am probably going to cancel Sunday Ticket this year -- I have alternative game day plans. Therefore, I was wondering if you folks getting free HR20s also have Sunday Ticket, and if anyone thinks that as soon as I cancel ST, they'll probably decide to not offer 2+ free HR20s. My guess is that they will still offer them after a few calls to retention, but I'm curious if anyone can confirm being offered the free HR20s without NFL/NCAA packages.


I got my free HR20 without ever having an NFL/NCAA package. In my case, I mentioned FIOS would be available in my area soon, and I was considering whether I should change or not but I wanted to find out what kind of deal I could get on the HR20. The retention rep didn't hesitate offering a free one, and even waived the $19.95 S&H. When she wouldn't budge on the 2 yr. commitment, I asked about programming credit and she gave me free HBO for 6 mo.


----------



## EricG

I prefer to have all my boxes to have the same interface, so I'll upgrade when one of my DirecTiVos die, but only all my boxes for $0 upgrade fee. I'll re-up for 2 more years no problem. Out of pocket $$ is out of the question.


----------



## GCoop

Called today: 2nd attempt for upgrade HR10-250 to The HR20.

1st attempt = $119.98 installed with 10 credit for 12 months. The net cost, not adjusted for interest -.02. Told them I didn't necisarily want to front the $120 and I would think about it.

2nd Attempt = Initially the CSR told me it would be $299. After explaining I was told it would not cost me anything she proceeded to tell me that D* does not give anything away for free. Immediately asked to speak with some else since I have "Neighbors" with an Identical set-up that just got it for no cost. Was transferred to a "Floor Supervisor" according to the lady that I was transfered to. Explained my reason for calling and getting transfered to her and she told me the price was correct @ 299 but since I was a good customer offered me the 19.99 shipping deal. She thouroughly explained that this would be a leased unit and most likely be refurbished. She did offer me an outright purchase since all my other equipment is owned for $799. I politely declined. Not one to ever accept a first offer I asked about getting the 19.95 shipping charged waived. She looked at my account history and said that she could do it by charging me the shipping and immediately crediting it back. Checked my account online and that is exactly what she did.

Install set for Sept 10th
Chalk one more up @ the "little or no cost" level.

Hope sharing my experience can help some of you out.


----------



## bbodin

barracuda3443 said:


> I was out of town all weekend & just saw this thread a few minutes ago. I'm moving in 2 weeks & called Movers Connection today for the 3rd time about a half hour ago.
> 
> First call last week: HR20 for $99, I wanted it for $19, they wouldn't do it, I said I'd call back
> 
> Second call 30 mins. later: HR20 for $199 OR HR20 for $99 if I turn in the HR10. I wanted to keep the HR10, so I said I'd call back.
> 
> Third call today: HR20 for FREE ($20 shipping), I keep the HR10. New dish included. Didn't even have to fight for it.
> 
> The CSR tried to slide in a switch from one of our older 40 Hour Tivos to I guess the R15. I stopped her immediately. I am prepared to learn a new OS, my wife however...


I still don't understand how all of your "multiple callbacks" work. Every time I've tried to play CSR roulette they always make a note on my account with each person I talk to. Then when I call back a 2nd time (and 3rd and 4th) they say "it shows here you were offered XYZ...I'm sorry, but that's the best we can do". So they know I just keep calling hoping to get a better offer because it's documented in the notes each time I call.


----------



## HalfFull

I called to cancel my DirectTV service, and they had the audacity to say that I had a new two year commitment when I added my "owned" HR10--250 about a year ago as another receiver.

First of all, I did not add the HD service, just another DVR. There was no mention of any new two year commitment.

These people are just greedy....good luck on collecting, DirecTV.


----------



## sandpj

So, I am frustrated with "shortened" recording on my HR10. Missing the back nine of Tiger's round yesterday was the last straw. 

I just called DTV (retention) and was offered $99 for upgrade. Told them I did not want to pay anything upfront, and after a 3-5 minute "check for other offers", I received free HR20 with no shipping charge.

I'm not thrilled about losing DLB, so I'm going to keep both units running for awhile until I hopefully get comfortable with the HR20.


----------



## pendragn

Are you guys getting HR20-100s or HR20-700s? The only difference between the two is drive size, isn't it? They run the same software?

tk


----------



## Jebberwocky!

pendragn said:


> Are you guys getting HR20-100s or HR20-700s? The only difference between the two is drive size, isn't it? They run the same software?
> 
> tk


700's


----------



## Todd

pendragn said:


> Are you guys getting HR20-100s or HR20-700s? The only difference between the two is drive size, isn't it? They run the same software?
> 
> tk


I got an HR20-100S. The "S" is for silver. There are some difference, but mostly in how the box is laid out. The biggest thing is the ventilation. The 700 has openings in the top of it for ventilation. The 100 use a fan under the box. I definitely like how the 100 does it better, especially for my setup.


----------



## DolphinGirl

GCoop said:


> Called today: 2nd attempt for upgrade HR10-250 to The HR20.
> 
> She thouroughly explained that this would be a leased unit and most likely be refurbished.


What's with the refurbished HR20? Is this really true and is there any way to get a new unit?


----------



## Anubys

pendragn said:


> Are you guys getting HR20-100s or HR20-700s? The only difference between the two is drive size, isn't it? They run the same software?
> 
> tk


I thought the only diff was manufacturing date (100s are more recent), drive is same...the 700s also get software updates first, then they are rolled out to the 100s...


----------



## IOTP

With the new MPG4 hitting the street next month or so they say... I decided to call up DTV and see what I could get and jump on the bandwagon.

I started the initial phone call Friday afternoon about 2:30 PM local time 8/10/2007.

I contacted the 800-531-5000 main number. I explicitly asked about the upgrade plan. They gave me the normal $199 + 2 year committment bs.

I asked for the retension department. Talked with them for 30 seconds, explained to them about how I heard of an "upgrade" for existing customers. 

I mentioned "a friend of mine" got an upgrade, and 1 minute after that I negotiated:

- New HR20 DVR
- Upgraded MPG4 dish
- Upto 150' of additional cable pulled, if necessary
- complete installation, and removal of older dish
- free 6 months hbo & showtime
- 2 yr committment. Which is fine, I am not going anywhere.

All the above for $21.57 ($19.99+tax).

Then they starting looking for installation dates. They told me the 12th. I told them September 12th would be good. The CSR then said, no, this Sunday August 12th. Now granted, it was Friday 8/10 about 2:30 in the afternoon.

They gave me a window of 8am-noon on Sunday. Sunday afternoon about 11:00 the installer showed up. I had to relocate my dish, but that wasnt a big problem.

Installation was painless. Did have to do some extra talking to keep my OTA signal though. 

Overall the install went well, the new HR20 is in place, and "doing the job". The end result of a DVR is still the same. You tell it to record, it does. You watch a show, it plays. 

The ONLY thing really dont like is the fact the grid-like guide display. I miss the Tivo UI (user interface) when it displays the channel, then displays upto 12 hours of content on the screen. Now you have to scroll through it.

The satellite broadcast of HD locals are surprisingly good. Since I also fed in the OTA signal into the HR20 the locals look like this on the grid:

12 KPNX 
12 PN12
12-1 KPNX-DT
12-2 KPNX
12-3 KPNX

"12 KPNX" is the "HD" "DTV" digital channel.
"12 PN12" is the "SD" "DTV" channel.
"12-1, 12-2, 12-3" are my OTA signals.

Overall, I am pleased with the device. I have another HR10-250 still in service but will more then likely replace that over the next couple of months.

I am hearing about all the "possible" DTV and Tivo relationships, but the HR10-250 cannot receive the MPEG4 signal. I wonder if the HR20, cannot accept Tivo code if possible? It would be interesting if DTV would build a new Tivo or somehow upgrade all the new HR20s in the field.

I would think not, because of all the R&D invested in their own DVR product.

eBay gets my upgraded HR10-250 (with single 500GB) drive. I'll try to sell it there. 

That's my .02 worth..


----------



## GCoop

DolphinGirl said:


> What's with the refurbished HR20? Is this really true and is there any way to get a new unit?


Well, thats what she said. Since this is a leased unit, costing me nothing, I really dont care as long as it is not beat up and works.

Since my post, I have recieved the unit (HR20-100 IIRC) The unit appeared to be brand new. It was still packaged with original plastic wrap taped up as if it were new. The physical appearance had no dust, blemishes, scratches etc to indicate that it had been used or repaired. Even the rubber feet had no indication that they had been supporting the unit.

My guess is that they are sending used/refurbished ones out as well as new and they were setting the expectation that I would recieve a preowned one. So when those that are expecting used ones get a brand new one they have exceeded the original expectation that was set. An old trick that works still today.


----------



## JoeTiVo

IOTP said:


> The ONLY thing really dont like is the fact the grid-like guide display. I miss the Tivo UI (user interface) when it displays the channel, then displays upto 12 hours of content on the screen. Now you have to scroll through it.


Yup.. that's my biggest complaint. I now have 2 HR20s and it really is a pain to look ahead and see what's coming up. I really hated the grid guide before and now even more.


----------



## milominderbinder

If you are considering a move to the HR20, there are a number of resources over at the sister site, DBSTalk that can help.

Here is the thread showing the HR10 users getting $19 deals on their HR20's. Many report then selling their HR10's on eBay for ~$200.

What the Deals are, and what are you being told by CSR?

Getting a good install is everything. What you do can make all of the difference. Choose the right time of day, get the work order written the right way, etc.:

HR20 Installation Tips

Getting to know all the new terminology:

TiVo Users Survival Guide

133 of the key features in the HR20 are not documented in the manual but they are here:

Undocumented Tips & Tricks

Here are another 40 topics like these in the HR20 FAQ:

HR20 FAQ

- Craig


----------



## IOTP

JoeTiVo said:


> Yup.. that's my biggest complaint. I now have 2 HR20s and it really is a pain to look ahead and see what's coming up. I really hated the grid guide before and now even more.


It took about 3 hours of constant playing around with the HR20 where I felt comfortable using it.

By last night, about 1030 I was good to go. Just waiting to guide data to update so I can add my recordings to the "to do list".

I havent figured out a way to switch between the tuners, and one thing I found out this morning and didn't occur to me was the loss of the dual tuner buffering. Even after reading all the forums over the past few months.

That buffering worked great for those AM traffic commutes in the morning.

Other things to follow I am sure.


----------



## Anubys

Jebberwocky! said:


> links are not valid


this is the main forum for all these threads DBStalk HR20 Forum


----------



## milominderbinder

Sorry. The links should work now.


----------



## desulliv

JoeTiVo said:


> Yup.. that's my biggest complaint. I now have 2 HR20s and it really is a pain to look ahead and see what's coming up. I really hated the grid guide before and now even more.


I know this is a Tivo forum, but I just upgraded 2 HR-10s to 2 HR20s ($0.00 and shipping cost waived) on Saturday and was surprised how much I don't hate them. They're much better than my experience with the non HD recorders (R15?). If you highlight the channel number and press "info" button it will display hours of content for that channel.


----------



## JoeTiVo

desulliv said:


> If you highlight the channel number and press "info" button it will display hours of content for that channel.


Nice! See, it does pay to whine about some things.  That gives me just what I'm looking for.

I'm a LONG time TiVo user and this is my first experience with the HR20s and I have to say that I'm pleasantly surprised. Much better than I thought they were going to be.

Lots of folks complain about the 'cartoonish' look of the TiVo interface. But I have to say the HR20 interface is rather 'micky mouse' looking. I'm thinking they went with the simplistic, thin, 2D graphics to conserve on processing power. That's probably a good reason, but it does give an overall 'cheap' look and feel to the users experience.

But, if that's the most I have to complain about, I guess that's not too bad.


----------



## evilklown

Their offer to me to replace my HD tivo box(hr10-250),,,

1 year of HD free.
6 months of 3 movie channels free.
Free HD dvr box,but $19.95 shipping.
2 year commitment...can i get 1 year only?
Total choice extra for $44.95....

Can I work them more?


----------



## milominderbinder

Stop now. Call them back. Say YES. You are the grand prize winner!

- Craig


----------



## Orient Express

The HR20-100 is manufactured by Thomson Consumer Electronics (RCA), and the HR-20-700 is manufactured by Pace Electronics. Pace is one of the largest ODM and Contract manufacturers of set top boxes in the world. While you will rarely see them with their name on a box, they make millions of them for other folks like DTV.

The internal Hard drives are identical in size, as is the rest of the design, it is exactly the same. The only difference is that each manufacturer has a different shipping box size. I have one of each, and they are the same.


----------



## IOTP

Day 1, just basic programming, down to 86% free.

How large is the hard drive?


----------



## evilklown

really Milo, thats a good offer?


----------



## Squidmark

I just got my letter in the mail today about the change.

Called DirecTV to try and upgrade my HR 10-250 using all the suggestions on this forum. We have 5 receivers in our house and have been with DirecTV for 12 years.

3 different CSRs told me to pack sand. Between my wife and I we've been on the phone for over 2 hours and we're exhausted.

Cancellation is in progress as I write this.

I'm glad to see most of you are getting good deals. It sounds like they're getting worn down though so anyone who hasn't tried yet you should probably get on it quickly.

SM


----------



## evilklown

dude wake up, you need to get to the customer retention dept. ,have you not read a thing on this thread?


----------



## evilklown

btw squid, I do this every 2 years,you should too,you are missing out.


----------



## Anubys

IOTP said:


> Day 1, just basic programming, down to 86% free.
> 
> How large is the hard drive?


300 GB on the HR20...but the eSATA port is active so you're limited in size only by your budget...most people put a 750 GB drive but you can easily put 1.5 TB there...

note: the HR20 recognizes only one hard drive (or multiple drives in a RAID 0)...so once you add an external drive, the internal one is ignored...


----------



## Squidmark

One of the 4 (called again) WAS retention. They flat out said the deal is off the table. Believe me, this is not for lack of trying.

I was supposed to cancel my account this morning (got too late last night) and I wake up to find the bulb burned out on my TV. That's going to complicate matters a bit.

Must be a sign.

SM


----------



## jp1973

I've been silently reading this forum and this thread in particular. I called today, first call, and was offered the following:

* Free 5 LNB dish and install
* Free HD DVR (HR20)
* 1 yr HD programming FREE
* 1 yr DVR service FREE

Cost $19.95 shipping and 2 yr commitment.

No threats, no yelling, just politeness and a friendly attitude. I mentioned to the CSR that I would like to upgrade my system but don't want to pay so much to upgrade. I said that I keep getting offers from Comcast that would make it much more affordable but I clearly said, "I don't want to switch, I want to stay with DirecTv, can you help me out?". The CSR just flat out gave me that offer. I said "Thank you". I should have said "I love you" but it was a dude. 

Thanks for all the info!


----------



## dswallow

jp1973 said:


> I said "Thank you". I should have said "I love you" but it was a dude.


I think it'd take at least 3 free HR20's to warrant an "I love you," You did right saying "Thank you." 

(Well, actually I think I'd probably ask why he hated me so much that he wanted to give me more of that abominable device... but that's just me. )


----------



## Squidmark

I just called to cancel service after talking with Dish (didn't order, just fact finding).

I spoke with the nicest person I've ever spoken with who seemed genuinely bummed that I was leaving after 12 years.

Offered 2 HR20's, 1 Yr. free HDTV, account credits for a year and a new 5 LNB Dish. No shipping charges, no tax, no nothing. $0.

The only thing that came out of my mouth was "I wish to cancel service". The offer came out on the table without me uttering another word.

What a schizophrenic company to deal with. Yesterday I was berated by 3 CSRs and 1 Retention rep. Today, they couldn't do enough for me.

Kudos to DTV for making it right. I just refused to believe they were going to extort me for more $$ in order to continue receiving HDTV programming.

The only thing I didn't appreciate was them putting it on their customers to have to cancel service before working with them.

In the end, I'm pleased. Very pleased. But what a process.

SM


----------



## fmzip

Here's my deal through customer retention:

Free Installation
Free HD-DVR
Free 5 LNB dish
Bill reduced by $10 a month
I get to keep my HR10-250 and they will relocate it into another room.

$19.95.........I took the nice approach also with the retention department. It also helped to have the service for 11 years....


----------



## jonessdk

Just got off the phone with D*. Retention informed me that all HD channels will switch to MPEG 4 in September. The HR10 will no longer receive any HD programming. I mentioned that I had not read any press release or any thread to this affect. She assured me that this was going to happen. I traded in an HR10 for one HR20 and 2 H20's and installation for 199.00. About three weeks for installation no increase in cost of package. I will check back and let you know how the install goes.


----------



## RS4

jonessdk said:


> Just got off the phone with D*. Retention informed me that all HD channels will switch to MPEG 4 in September. The HR10 will no longer receive any HD programming. I mentioned that I had not read any press release or any thread to this affect. She assured me that this was going to happen. I traded in an HR10 for one HR20 and 2 H20's and installation for 199.00. About three weeks for installation no increase in cost of package. I will check back and let you know how the install goes.


I just don't see that happening. They wouldn't be selling the NFLST if that were true to as many people as they have been. They would be telling those people if that were the case. But, instead I've heard just the opposite - that they will carry the NFLST through this season - otherwise, they will have to refund a lot of moola!!


----------



## mpmchugh

jonessdk said:


> Just got off the phone with D*. Retention informed me that all HD channels will switch to MPEG 4 in September. The HR10 will no longer receive any HD programming. I mentioned that I had not read any press release or any thread to this affect. She assured me that this was going to happen. I traded in an HR10 for one HR20 and 2 H20's and installation for 199.00. About three weeks for installation no increase in cost of package. I will check back and let you know how the install goes.


This makes no sense. It must be BS or she did not know what she was talking about.

Why would DirecTV make a big announcement about new features coming to the HR10 in January if they were shutting off HD content 4 months before that?

She probably meant that new HD channels coming in Sept would not be available to the HR10.

-mpm


----------



## newsposter

has anyone seriously ever called back or escalated to a supervisor when you have been given such obviously poor information? I do not believe the people that run the company would be happy with all this misinformation going around.


----------



## Anubys

newsposter said:


> has anyone seriously ever called back or escalated to a supervisor when you have been given such obviously poor information? I do not believe the people that run the company would be happy with all this misinformation going around.


the big assumption here is that the supervisor knows the correct information!


----------



## pendragn

I just called and got Darrell in Retention. He said the best offer they had was $99 for the LNB, the installation and the HR20, plus I'd have to give them my HR10-250. I told him I knew other people were getting the $20 and I was going to cancel and go with Dish Network if I couldn't get the same. He said he didn't know of any $20 for DVRs, only for regular HD receivers and he was sorry to hear I was going.

I'll try a couple more times today. I can't say that I'm too excited about the prospect of spending a lot of my time trying to get them to take care of me. 

tk


----------



## HiDefGator

When I called several times 2 weeks ago the sticking point seemed to be the number of HR20's you wanted at once. I kept trying to get 2 new HR20's to replace my 2 HR10's and making no progress. When I called back and asked for one HR20 it was no problem. 

I'll wait a week and then try for the other one. One other thing I noticed was that when i mentioned deals others were getting that seemed to put a chill on the entire process. Maybe they don't like dealing with people that know what the deals are. My suggestion would be to just act stupid and keep saying, "Is that the best you can do?"


----------



## Jebberwocky!

I swapped all three of my 250's at once. First she claimed they could only do 1 every 6 months. I held firm and then she found another offer sheet where she could give me two and she said the other one was coming from the CSR who was sitting next to her.

It almost sounded like she had a clipboard with sheets and sheets of offers that she paged through to find the one that worked for me.


----------



## scooby_doo_53

HiDefGator said:


> When I called several times 2 weeks ago the sticking point seemed to be the number of HR20's you wanted at once. I kept trying to get 2 new HR20's to replace my 2 HR10's and making no progress. When I called back and asked for one HR20 it was no problem.
> 
> I'll wait a week and then try for the other one. One other thing I noticed was that when i mentioned deals others were getting that seemed to put a chill on the entire process. Maybe they don't like dealing with people that know what the deals are. My suggestion would be to just act stupid and keep saying, "Is that the best you can do?"


That's strange. I called early last week, and got 2 HR20's ordered, with a new dish, etc. The CSR saw I had two HR10's, and that I had been a customer since 1996. Not sure if that came into play or not.

Installation is this coming Saturday, so I guess I'll see what happens.


----------



## newsposter

Anubys said:


> the big assumption here is that the supervisor knows the correct information!


well even they have a boss!


----------



## pendragn

I called back an hour later and got Rhonda. She took care of me. An HR20, 5 LNB dish and installation for $19.95. I did agree to the two year committment.

tk


----------



## milominderbinder

As of today HR10's are still fetching $150 to $250 plus about $25 to cover shipping. Remote, access card, manual, great condition, and cables help bring up the price. Upgraded units are higher. Broken units sell for around $50 + $25.

eBay HR10 Listings

You should be able to factor in recouping at least $150 into your decision. Over 200 sold in the past 2 weeks so it is a solid market as of today.

- Craig


----------



## IOTP

Folks keep this in mind..

When you call them and try to deal, they are making notes on your account. Do not be fooled by this. They know what the deals are. They know what they can offer based on your time as a customer, if you have a late payment on your bill etc.

I replaced 1 HR10-250 for the $19.99, plus new MPEG4 dish, and free HBO/SHOW for 6 months. I am going to try and get my other HR10 replaced in the next week.

I'll let you know my results.


----------



## dswallow

The only way to deal with retention is to be willing to follow through and cancel your service if you don't get an acceptable offer. Know going in what you will settle for and what you won't.

The other thing to do is to call only during business hours; make sure you get the first tier of retention folks, not the night crew. It seems the business day crew, in general, is able to do more, or perhaps just has easier access to a supervisor to authorize more, etc.

And frankly I don't think the "commitment" matters one bit to negotiate. It's not an insurmountable cost to just pay the pro-rated penalty to cancel service if you don't get a decent deal. But again, just be willing to take that step before you call to negotiate.


----------



## kwstump

I was just able to get the 19.99+tax deal and have my HDTivo relocated to a secondary room. The First Call was no luck and was offered the 299 over three months. Called back in a few minutes and a nice lady offered the 99 and turn in the old receiver, after a few minutes of talking she offered me to only pay the shipping, relocate my existing receiver, and install a new dish.

Thanks for the info All!!


----------



## wallyj

mbarloewen said:


> Is there a magic number to call?
> 
> I'm 0-3 in dealing with csrs today on this issue...


After 2 frustrating calls, I sent an email outlining what i wanted. Got a call back the same day from a polite, well informed woman who gave me 2 HR20's for the $19.99 shipping. Arranged my install and dish upgrade too. Won't be installed for another week though.


----------



## Squidmark

> The only way to deal with retention is to be willing to follow through and cancel your service if you don't get an acceptable offer. Know going in what you will settle for and what you won't.


Doug's right which makes the magic number of calls ONE. If you cut to the chase and cancel service it's the fastest route to the best offer. Several calls to the CSRs don't seem to be getting anyone anywhere and your frustration level will go through the roof.

SM


----------



## pendragn

Squidmark said:


> Doug's right which makes the magic number of calls ONE. If you cut to the chase and cancel service it's the fastest route to the best offer. *Several calls to the CSRs don't seem to be getting anyone anywhere * and your frustration level will go through the roof.
> 
> SM


Have you been reading this thread? It absolutely has gotten people exactly what they want, myself included. I can't retention once, got the $99 deal and declined it. I called back in an hour and got the $20 deal I was looking for. Tell me how several calls didn't get me anywhere? It got me exactly what I wanted.

tk


----------



## HalfFull

The way Directv operates just floors me.

I had been a good customer for years with D* and wanted to upgrade to the HR20. Spoke to a couple of people, including retention, and the best they would do (week ago) was $149 plus I had to give them my owned HR10-250. Told them that many were getting the new receiver for $19.95 shipping but they would not budge. Before hanging up, told them that I would be going to E* and would be calling back shortly there after to cancel Directv. Retention didn't seem impressed.

Last Saturday, I had E* installed with HD DVR, free HD for 10 months, and free movie channel. When I called D* that night, retention rep said "I can't believe that the rep you talked to last week wouldn't give you the $19.95 deal...I will certainly be informing his supervisor!" He told me he would give me the HR20 for free and I said it was too late. He then asked, "what will it take for you to remain with D*"  

On a side note, I like the VIP622 with the external storage...not a TIVO, but not bad!


----------



## pendragn

HalfFull said:


> On a side note, I like the VIP622 with the external storage...not a TIVO, but not bad!


If the VIP622 could record two OTA programs at the same time, or if I could get the network stations in HD from DishNetwork I would have had one months ago. A couple of my friends have them and they are very nice boxes.

tk


----------



## girardina

Hi,

I'm interested in doing the upgrade but not for $299. So far, they've offered to take $100 off but that pales in comparison with the folks who're only paying for shipping and handling. Any any tips for getting a better deal?

BTW, I'm a long time customer and I also subscribe to the hi-def NFL/Superfan package so I'd like to think they can do more.

Thanks,

Anthony


----------



## Anubys

girardina said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm interested in doing the upgrade but not for $299. So far, they've offered to take $100 off but that pales in comparison with the folks who're only paying for shipping and handling. Any any tips for getting a better deal?
> 
> BTW, I'm a long time customer and I also subscribe to the hi-def NFL/Superfan package so I'd like to think they can do more.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Anthony


first post in 3 years? something doesn't add up...

short answer: yes. happy reading DBStalk


----------



## pendragn

Anubys said:


> first post in 3 years? something doesn't add up...
> 
> short answer: yes. happy reading DBS forum


He might have signed up to read the Happy Hour since it's subscriber only.

tk


----------



## ebonovic

Anubys said:


> first post in 3 years? something doesn't add up...
> 
> short answer: yes. happy reading DBS forum


It's DBSTalk, not DBS Forum... that is a different site (even though you linked the correct one)


----------



## Anubys

ebonovic said:


> It's DBSTalk, not DBS Forum... that is a different site (even though you linked the correct one)


sorry...I meant the Forum that is called DBS...honest! I'll edit my post...


----------



## ebonovic

Anubys said:


> sorry...I meant the Forum that is called DBS...honest! I'll edit my post...


 Thank you...
Just didn't want peope thinking they where going one way.... and getting sent to another.


----------



## newsposter

not dbs forum either....forumS 

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/


----------



## girardina

Haven't been active since I bought my HR10-250. Now that the HD lineup is expanding, I figured it'd be a good time to check back in. Glad to see the forum is alive and well.

Take care,

Anthony


----------



## Fripp1

Feeling resigned and defeated, I finally pulled the trigger:

- Free HR-20 HS-DVR w/ 5 LNB Dish (no mention of a $19.99 shipping charge) 
- $10 off per month programming credit for one year
- $10.99 off per month HD programming credit for one year
- $5.99 off per month DVR credit for one year
- Free HBO/Cinemax/Showtime for 6 months
- Can keep the HR-10 250 

I'm quite happy with the offer. I just hope the new box dosen't drive me nuts.


----------



## Squidmark

> Have you been reading this thread? It absolutely has gotten people exactly what they want, myself included.


I absolutely have been reading this thread. Multiple times. I guess my point is, as a customer I shouldn't HAVE to call 3-4-5-6 times. One call is what it should take. Otherwise I'm the one who's begging instead of D* to keep me as a customer.

If you like the roulette game, have at it. Personally, 2 hours of my time is better spent than on the phone pleading my case to a company who is trying to extort money from me.

SM


----------



## pendragn

Squidmark said:


> I absolutely have been reading this thread. Multiple times. I guess my point is, as a customer I shouldn't HAVE to call 3-4-5-6 times. One call is what it should take. Otherwise I'm the one who's begging instead of D* to keep me as a customer.
> 
> If you like the roulette game, have at it. Personally, 2 hours of my time is better spent than on the phone pleading my case to a company who is trying to extort money from me.
> 
> SM


Okay, gotcha. We agree it shouldn't take more than one call. The unfortunate reality is that it does. 

tk


----------



## Squidmark

tk,

I agree. I didn't mean to imply you wouldn't eventually get something but I hate to see people give up after 3-4 attempts. I almost did. When I played the cancel card it got me right where I needed to be.

I'm sitting here with the installers as we speak.

SM


----------



## pendragn

When I called I thought about going that route, but I was afraid they'd call my bluff and cancel my account.

tk


----------



## unclejon

I'm moving in a few weeks and wanted to add an HR20 to our existing HR10 as part of their movers program so we can have two DVRs (and we should be able to get good OTA for the HR10 in the new location). At first the CSR told me $299 to lease an HR20 (or $700 to buy one), I said no (and mentioned I'm not in contract and can switch to Comcast), then he came back with the $19.95 offer but wanted me to give up the HR10 (I told him no and that I paid a lot of money for it), then he came back and said I could keep my old one too with a two-year deal. 

Having read through these forums, I knew what I could reasonably expect to get from DTV, and that's really all I wanted -- but what a hassle.


----------



## HDenthusiast35

Just a comment here about my experience with trying to get the HR20 upgrade.

7 phone calls over two days has produced the same result each time, that being $299 + $19.99 S&H to upgrade each of my 2 HR10-250's. Requests that I be transferred to retention have had no effect. Indicating to each of the representatives that "I'm about to become a cable customer at these prices" (and I wasn't kidding), had no impact either. $638 to upgrade just isn't worth it to me, so unless I find a way to lower the costs on this, it's bye-bye D* in December when my 2 year commitment is up.

I'm open to any suggestions...


----------



## dswallow

HDenthusiast35 said:


> Just a comment here about my experience with trying to get the HR20 upgrade.
> 
> 7 phone calls over two days has produced the same result each time, that being $299 + $19.99 S&H to upgrade each of my 2 HR10-250's. Requests that I be transferred to retention have had no effect. Indicating to each of the representatives that "I'm about to become a cable customer at these prices" (and I wasn't kidding), had no impact either. $638 to upgrade just isn't worth it to me, so unless I find a way to lower the costs on this, it's bye-bye D* in December when my 2 year commitment is up.
> 
> I'm open to any suggestions...


Don't wait until December. Do it now. Call your cable company and schedule an installation then call and cancel your DirecTV service at the end of the current billing period.

You're only going to have to pay 3 or 4 months prorated of the 2-year-commitment penalty... $300/24 or $12.50/month of the remainder of the commitment period.

Now they'll take you seriously and if they're going to try to keep you by offering a deal, they'll do it.


----------



## Ein

pendragn said:


> When I called I thought about going that route, but I was afraid they'd call my bluff and cancel my account.
> 
> tk


If your contract is up, why cancel it for few days if they do call your bluff. It's not like your burning the bridge. Call back a few days, they will be glade to take you back.

I cancelled one of my account with them years ago and still getting the "please come back" junk mails from them all these years.


----------



## henryld

My best offer so far, after three calls to retention, is $99 + $19.99 S&H with a $50 bill credit. I recently received a $15.99 a month credit for one year (long story) so that might factor into the offers I've received. BTW, this is for an HR20 and Slimline; my current equipment is owned (HR10-250 & 3lnb) and under no commitment.


----------



## pendragn

Ein said:


> If your contract is up, why *[not] * cancel it for few days if they do call your bluff. It's not like your burning the bridge. Call back a few days, they will be glade to take you back.
> 
> I cancelled one of my account with them years ago and still getting the "please come back" junk mails from them all these years.


For one, I don't want to be without service.  It's sad, but I would miss it. And I'd have to explain it to my wife, and they may call my bluff again and not beg me to come back. I am not a risk taker at all, so that approach wouldn't have worked very well for me.

I only had to call twice, so the experience wasn't too bad for me. I had it much easier than some other folks did.

tk


----------



## dswallow

When you cancel your account, you can tell them when to do it. So you didn't need to be out of service for a period of time. You could've just canceled the account as of the last date of the billing period you've already paid for, or even picked a date some arbitrary period of time into the future to have it happen, giving you enough time to get something else installed (or to negotiate as a person who just canceled).


----------



## girardina

girardina said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm interested in doing the upgrade but not for $299. So far, they've offered to take $100 off but that pales in comparison with the folks who're only paying for shipping and handling. Any any tips for getting a better deal?
> 
> BTW, I'm a long time customer and I also subscribe to the hi-def NFL/Superfan package so I'd like to think they can do more.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Anthony


I'm happy to say that I was able to get the upgrade/installation/relocation of existing equipment for the $19 shipping-and-handling charge. It took two calls and an e-mail message but it all worked out in the end. And I'll have the new box in place two days before the new HD channels come on-line.

Thanks to all for posting your tips, advice, and experiences.

Anthony


----------



## jlmza2350

I called this morning and talked to retention. After going round and round with the agent she offered to replace both HR10's with HR20's for no charge. She billed my account $99.00 for each and then credited my account right back.

I am a very long time customer and my monthly bill is around $90.00

I will miss the TIVO interface and the DLB feature....


----------



## JoeTiVo

jlmza2350 said:


> I will miss the TIVO interface and the DLB feature....


Yes, you will. I've had my two HR20s for a week now. While I fully expect to 'get the job done' with them, they are no were near as user friendly and reliable as my trusty Tivo. You have to do what you have to do though, to get the new HD stations.

I'm still hoping the two parties get together and come up with an MPEG4 Tivo.


----------



## evilklown

Their offer to me to replace my HD tivo box(hr10-250),,,

1 year of HD free.
$10 off a month of bill for a year.
6 months of 3 movie channels free.
Free HD dvr box,but $19.95 shipping.
2 year commitment.(yuck)..


I did it,Good bye Tivo...............................................


----------



## milominderbinder

Correction to my earlier post. The average price for a non-hacked HR10's on eBay is no longer $200.

Six months ago they were $400. A month ago they averaged $250. Last week $200.

Now the average HR10 price is down to about $180.

- Craig


----------



## evilklown

yep, my buy it now is $189.00


----------



## eddieb4me

My HR10-250 was beginning to act up (I think the hard drive's about to go), so I went out to Costco and bought me an HR20 today. But after reading this thread, I decided to call DTV and try to get one for the $19.95 S & H. I'm a 9 year DTV customer and have spent over $11k with these guys in that time, so I figured if anyone deserves to get this thing for free, it was me.

Called and they wouldn't budge on the $299.99 price. Waited and called again 45 minutes later and the same story. I told they guy I was a 9 year customer and all that, so he said he'd transfer me to another department that has more latitude with upgrades. Real nice guy I got in this new department, but he gave me the same $299.99 price. Geez! I gave him the customer loyalty song and dance and, also mentioned the fact that he's trying to charge a very loyal customer more for this box than Joe Blow would have to pay walking into his local Costco. The guy didn't care.

So I asked for Retention. Told them I knew people were getting this deal and if anyone deserved it, it was me. And I asked her why I was being treated like this. She said one moment, hit a few keys on the keyboard, and about 3-4 seconds later said I could have the HR20 for the $19.95 S&H.

So I think you need to get to the Retention department and let them know that you know people who have gotten this deal, so you know they can give it to you. I think that's your best chance. Kinda ticks me off though that they play these games and try to rip you off unless you are adamant about it. They should just have a standard upgrade policy and give it to everybody instead of just the guys that find out about it.


----------



## milominderbinder

eddie,

The next step is to sell the HR10 while you can still get something for them on eBay...

- Craig


----------



## atlantadan

To all, thanks for posting up your experiences. It's time for me to pull the trigger

Last time I did this, I called retention directly and bypassed the CSR's, and got the deal everybody else was getting. 

Does anybody know the direct phone number for the Retention dept? or is this not available now and you have to go through a CSR first 

Thanks in advance for the help


----------



## tfederov

You're gonna have to call in and ask for retention. I believe some folks said "cancel" during the automated prompts to be taken there directly.


----------



## Idahoguy

tfederov said:


> You're gonna have to call in and ask for retention. I believe some folks said "cancel" during the automated prompts to be taken there directly.


That's what I did. I said "cancel my service." 
To get the $19.95 "handling" deal, I believe you need to be an HR10-250 owner. 
If you're not, expect to pay.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

when I called I asked to talk to retention - I was transfered


----------



## eddieb4me

milominderbinder said:


> eddie,
> 
> The next step is to sell the HR10 while you can still get something for them on eBay...
> 
> - Craig


That's exactly what I plan to do. Unfortunately, my HR10 is now getting a severe error and won't boot up. I'm sure it's the disk, so I'm just gonna sell it as is cuz I don't wanna mess with it. I'll probably get next to nothing, but it's better than nothing.


----------



## Idahoguy

milominderbinder said:


> eddie,
> 
> The next step is to sell the HR10 while you can still get something for them on eBay...
> 
> - Craig


I may just keep mine and use it in the bedroom for the 4:3 TV. We've been doing the "Leapfrog" to avoid paying a mirroring fee, but I may spring for it and use the HR10 there. I'll sell the Leapfrog for $15 or something. That almost pays the $19.95 to DirecTV for the upgrade.
I dunno.


----------



## cp1966

If I am able to get the same deal in order to get "more" HD channels (whenever they roll out), will I still only be charged a one time $5.00 fee for the DVR service, even if I have Daves DVR and several Tivos?


----------



## or270

cp1966 said:


> If I am able to get the same deal in order to get "more" HD channels (whenever they roll out), will I still only be charged a one time $5.00 fee for the DVR service, even if I have Daves DVR and several Tivos?


The DVR service fee of $5.99 per month is a good for any amount or brands of DVR's.


----------



## or270

Idahoguy said:


> I may just keep mine and use it in the bedroom for the 4:3 TV. We've been doing the "Leapfrog" to avoid paying a mirroring fee, but I may spring for it and use the HR10 there. I'll sell the Leapfrog for $15 or something. That almost pays the $19.95 to DirecTV for the upgrade.
> I dunno.


Ok I give what is a Leapfrog?


----------



## dswallow

or270 said:


> Ok I give what is a Leapfrog?


It's just a device to wirelessly distribute video and audio to a different room and send remote codes back to the equipment from that room as well.

http://reviews.cnet.com/specialized...erk-leapfrog-lf-30s/4505-7847_7-30469253.html


----------



## Idahoguy

or270 said:


> The DVR service fee of $5.99 per month is a good for any amount or brands of DVR's.


So let me get this straight (because I've never done this.) If I keep my HR10-250 after upgrading to the HR20, will I be charged anything additional if I use my HR10-250 in the bedroom with our little 4:3 TV? Isn't there a "mirroring fee" of $4.99? And is there any sort of Leapfrog scenario that would allow me to get use out of two DVRs and sets without paying that extra $4.99 mirroring fee?


----------



## bigpuma

Idahoguy said:


> So let me get this straight (because I've never done this.) If I keep my HR10-250 after upgrading to the HR20, will I be charged anything additional if I use my HR10-250 in the bedroom with our little 4:3 TV? Isn't there a "mirroring fee" of $4.99? And is there any sort of Leapfrog scenario that would allow me to get use out of two DVRs and sets without paying that extra $4.99 mirroring fee?


You are correct about the mirroring fee although I think they call it a lease fee now. As for using a Leapfrog it would allow you to send the signal from your HR20 to another room but you would have to tune into the same channel or watch the same recording on both TVs at the same time. If you want each TV to be able to tune into separate channels you need to get 2 DVRs and pay the mirroring fee.


----------



## newsposter

just as an aside..if you have cable running to a tv already (like house wired for cable), you can use that to pipe in the same channels to another tv thru a modulator hooked up to the HDtivo. I have this situation in my bedroom. Just even used the rg59 and it's fine for what use i have .


----------



## cp1966

or270 said:


> The DVR service fee of $5.99 per month is a good for any amount or brands of DVR's.


Thanks.

Any "official" date on when the additional HD channels will be broadcast?


----------



## ebonovic

cp1966 said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Any "official" date on when the additional HD channels will be broadcast?


There is no "official" date to be given.

Early/Mid September is as "official" as it has been.


----------



## dennya

One of my upgrade drives died on my HR10-250, so I figured that was a sign it was time to resign myself and get the HR20 on the main TV.

Called and was offered $99. Knew from a guy at work that it was possible to get the fee waived if you have an HR10-250, so I asked them to see what they could do. I got transferred to a supervisor with an extremely poor sense of customer service, who said the first rep was incorrect and that the upgrade should be $299 because I was getting a "DVR with HD" (Uh, so's the HR10, maam), but she'd do me favor of cutting $100 off so I'd only have to pay $199. Wow, thanks.

I was so annoyed I hit the web and started researching DISH deals. Then I called to cancel service. The very nice and helpful rep got me the $19.95 deal and all was good.

So in the end, I'm kind of happy. I'm not pleased that there's no Tivo option for the new HD channels. As someone who's worked in UI design, the HR20's user interface is like a bad "find 40 things wrong with this UI" question on an essay tests. I'm doubly not pleased that I have to break out used car negotiating tactics for the privilege of continuing to pay them over $1,200 a year.

But at least the technology and programming are good. And because we have an abysmal rural cable company here, it's either D* or E*.

Is there a list -- even a "best guess" list -- of the new channels anywhere?


----------



## ebonovic

dennya said:


> Is there a list -- even a "best guess" list -- of the new channels anywhere?


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=87235


----------



## maldini

Thank you for all the advice!

I called and the first CSR tried to sell me an upgrade for $99, but then I said I had heard about the 19.95 deal and she transfered me immediately to a resolution specialist and after saying the same thing to him, he took a couple of seconds and then offered me the following

1) HR20 with B converter
2) 5 LNB Dish
3) Installation

For $19.95. 

I jumped at the deal and I got an install date of next Friday.


----------



## maldini

One thing I don't yet understand is when I upgrade from the HR10-250 to the HR20 with a 5 LNB dish, will I be getting any new HD channels I don't receive today?

I am assuming that maybe I will get my HD locals and possibly my two RSN's (NESN and FSNE) but I am not sure.

Does anyone know what a Boston area resident would receive if I have HD Access programming on the HR10-250 and am switching to the HR20 with a 5 LNB dish>


----------



## litzdog911

maldini said:


> One thing I don't yet understand is when I upgrade from the HR10-250 to the HR20 with a 5 LNB dish, will I be getting any new HD channels I don't receive today?
> 
> I am assuming that maybe I will get my HD locals and possibly my two RSN's (NESN and FSNE) but I am not sure.
> 
> Does anyone know what a Boston area resident would receive if I have HD Access programming on the HR10-250 and am switching to the HR20 with a 5 LNB dish>


You will immediately receive your local Boston HDTV channels (CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox), and your regional sports HDTV broadcasts. In mid-September, you'll also receive the new HD channels from the new satellite.


----------



## maldini

litzdog911 said:


> You will immediately receive your local Boston HDTV channels (CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox), and your regional sports HDTV broadcasts. In mid-September, you'll also receive the new HD channels from the new satellite.


Thanks, a couple more questions

1) Is it safe to assume that the cost of HD Access will go up as soon as the new channels come on board?

2) When I upgraded to the HR20, do I own it, or am I leasing it (the CSR never told me). If lease, what is the cost per month difference between leasing the HR20 and owning the HR10-250?


----------



## Anubys

maldini said:


> Thanks, a couple more questions
> 
> 1) Is it safe to assume that the cost of HD Access will go up as soon as the new channels come on board?


No. DirecTV executives said so emphatically on their last call with analysts.


----------



## dswallow

Anubys said:


> No. DirecTV executives said so emphatically on their last call with analysts.


In other words, they'll wait at least a few months so nobody connects the price increase with the availability of more HD national channels.


----------



## newsposter

1. i'm betting that wont go up short term but guarantee a 'general price' increase in March next year.


----------



## Charlutz

maldini said:


> 2) When I upgraded to the HR20, do I own it, or am I leasing it (the CSR never told me). If lease, what is the cost per month difference between leasing the HR20 and owning the HR10-250?


Extremely likely a lease. Cost is same $5 per month. Only change is that your monthly "mirroring fee" is now called a "lease fee."


----------



## Ereth

FWIW, DirecTV came out and installed my new dish last weekend and I've been playing with the HR20.

I'm actually rather impressed. Compared to the piece of crap that Time Warner gave me, and the DVR that Comcast makes, this is a really good DVR. I like it even better than the Dish 622 that I played with at my friends house.

I was particularly surprised that it had "Keyword" search and Auto-record, so I still get "Wishlists", and that it would jump back when I stopped fast forwarding.

I love my TiVo and I'm not giving it up, but this is the best non-TiVo DVR I've used yet.

(Caveat: I've only had it a couple days, so maybe it will annoy me down the road, but so far I'm actually rather encouraged by it).


----------



## henryld

dswallow said:


> In other words, they'll wait at least a few months so nobody connects the price increase with the availability of more HD national channels.


I would not be surprised. What makes me think that, besides D* past history, is that earlier this month I was told that I would receive HD access free for a year for some problems I had experienced (long story). When the credit did not show up on my bill I called and was told they were not allowed to give free HD access although they could give me a $10 per month credit. HD access goes up I eat the increase.


----------



## skburke

I called last week because my Sd40 (SD-Tivo) died and was given the HR20-700 as a replacement. Two year committment off course.


----------



## jblankenship

I called yesterday to see what I could get. I was interested in upgrading my HDTivo and an SD receiver to the HR20. The CSR I talked with, while nice and seemingly competent, was not really willing to give me a real break on the 2 HDDVRs. She was stuck on $99 each. Now I know that's not bad (the last time I called, they were stuck on $299), but it's not great either. I mentioned that I could get equipment from Dish essentially for free and that got her to restructure the same offer. No real movement there. So I asked for retention.

The woman I spoke to in the retention department was EXTREMELY nice and knowledgeable. I mentioned that I did want to remain with DTV, but that I wanted to get 2 HR20's. She got me to a deal that was $19.95 each, with 6 months HBO and 3 months Starz. The only down side was a wait for the install (9/13  ). But the way she treated me was exceptional. There was a 2 year commitment, but that's no biggie since my only other option was Dish. There's no cable here. And she made a point to tell me to NOT let the installer take my Tivo, since I paid for it.

I'm happy.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

that should be 19.95 for the entire order (it is for shipping) not per receiver.


----------



## atlantadan

Folks

I'm doing my research and pulling all the details together before I called DTV.

So I called Dish and they gave me a very good deal on the programming to switch, no charge on the DVR and a 5lnb dish. They say the DVR can record up to 55hrs HD and PiP

Question, is DTV going to give have more HD channels than Dish come Sept? Am I missing something?


----------



## ebonovic

atlantadan said:


> Folks
> 
> I'm doing my research and pulling all the details together before I called DTV.
> 
> So I called Dish and they gave me a very good deal on the programming to switch, no charge on the DVR and a 5lnb dish. They say the DVR can record up to 55hrs HD and PiP
> 
> Question, is DTV going to give have more HD channels than Dish come Sept? Am I missing something?


Did Dish wave their ~$20ish HD fee too?

As for will DTV have more HD channels... 
Based on "announcements" todate.... yes... 
but those are just announcements and not definitives.

So until they are turned on and definitive with no doubts... we don't know.


----------



## atlantadan

earl

(not sure if I'm allowed to post up monthly charges )

yes, they gave me a $xx price for months 1-3 (low), $xx price for months 4-9, espn game plan, the new VIP 722 dvr, free dish and install. Asking for an 18 month commitment. No NFL Sunday ticket, However college gameplan is better for me

Their Vip722 looks like a hot box, any experience?

I've been a DTV Platinum subscriber for 9 + years now, but Dish has presented a interesting offer. I gotta really think this over


----------



## dswallow

atlantadan said:


> Question, is DTV going to give have more HD channels than Dish come Sept? Am I missing something?


Your research is missing a lot! 

Come Septemeber/October, DirecTV should have the capacity to provide over 100 channels of HD via their new Ka-band satellites, and have announced various details of what's planned, which includes the creation and carriage of many HD versions of popular SD cable channels... somewhere around 40-80 channels, total, including 20-some regional sports networks, most of which Dish (or anyone else) doesn't carry now and most of which Dish isn't going to have the capacity to carry anytime soon.


----------



## ebonovic

atlantadan said:


> earl
> 
> (not sure if I'm allowed to post up monthly charges )
> 
> yes, they gave me a $xx price for months 1-3 (low), $xx price for months 4-9, espn game plan, the new VIP 722 dvr, free dish and install. Asking for an 18 month commitment. No NFL Sunday ticket, However college gameplan is better for me
> 
> Their Vip722 looks like a hot box, any experience?
> 
> I've been a DTV Platinum subscriber for 9 + years now, but Dish has presented a interesting offer. I gotta really think this over


I don't have any personal experience with the ViP722...
We have some dedicated forums to it at www.dbstalk.com though...

Also over in HR20 forum... there is a feature comparison chart between the HR20 and the ViP722 (and the HR10-250)... which has been worked on by people who are very familar with the platforms (collective effort).


----------



## atlantadan

Doug

Thanks for the input, this is a process I just started so the help is appreciated

As far as programming, doing the math on the Dish promo offer over an 18 month comparison, the monthly charges are about the same, assuming DTV doesn't raise rates to get the new HD channels (what do you know to this issue?)

Dish is saying now they have the regionals sports. I'll check that out. 

The Dish DVR also seems better compared to the HR20/21


----------



## atlantadan

earl

Good link, I'm going to go read up on the comparison

Thanks!


----------



## dswallow

atlantadan said:


> Doug
> 
> Thanks for the input, this is a process I just started so the help is appreciated
> 
> As far as programming, doing the math on the Dish promo offer over an 18 month comparison, the monthly charges are about the same, assuming DTV doesn't raise rates to get the new HD channels (what do you know to this issue?)
> 
> Dish is saying now they have the regionals sports. I'll check that out.
> 
> The Dish DVR also seems better compared to the HR20/21


Both DirecTV and Dish Network, over the past several years, seem to have adopted the policy of training us to accept annual price increases, just like Cable. So while I doubt DirecTV will raise rates specifically because of the HD channel carriage, I would fully expect them to continue to push the envelope, much like every other provider, and eek out as much as they feel they can in annual rate increases.

There are rumors of a new rate tier available near the end of this month that would reduce costs for those with many receivers -- essentially eliminating the mirroring charges -- so, as always, it continues to be more complex an evaluation than just an across-the-board change in pricing.


----------



## charlieg

dswallow said:


> There are rumors of a new rate tier available near the end of this month that would reduce costs for those with many receivers -- essentially eliminating the mirroring charges -- so, as always, it continues to be more complex an evaluation than just an across-the-board change in pricing.


Doug,

Any pointers, links or additional info about these "rumors". Sounds interesting ...

- Charlie


----------



## dswallow

charlieg said:


> Doug,
> 
> Any pointers, links or additional info about these "rumors". Sounds interesting ...
> 
> - Charlie


I'm sure there's something over in dbstalk.com about it... look for mention of a programming package called "All Access" for $119.95.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90798


----------



## newsposter

it's been said it was just a test in their system or something...dont hold your breath


----------



## garbec

On 5th call, I got $99 - 12 months of $10 off. But it was like pulling teeth.


----------



## charlieg

dswallow said:


> I'm sure there's something over in dbstalk.com about it... look for mention of a programming package called "All Access" for $119.95.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=90798


Thanks Doug ... I'll keep an eye on that thread and we'll see if anything materializes on the 28th.


----------



## atlantadan

Earl/Doug and all:

Thanks for the help today. Was offered "the deal" when I called DTV , so I went ahead with staying with DTV. 

All this was done with the Retention Dept, who were very nice and easy to work with. Instantly offered:

- No charge HR20 (no shipping charge either)
- Get to keep my existing HR-10
- New 5 lnb dish and no charge install
- 12 month credit of HD programming
- 12 month $10 credit off of Premier
- No charge Gameplan
- 24 month commitment

I'm satisfied with DTV and they treated me very well over the years, so it was a good decision to stay with them


----------



## dizman

Thanks for the info all.

I had to fight tooth an nail, went so far as to set-up the termination date of my service. 

Here is what I got:
-no charge HR20 ($19.95 s/h)
-keep HR10-250
-new 5 lnb disk installed
-12 month credit for HD programming ($10)
- 4 monthes of Premier free
-NFL Superfan - free

Like I said it was not easy, this was the 3rd call, and I was fed up and would have canceled. I am already a Premier, NFLST, Nascar customer.


----------



## tnedator

dizman said:


> Thanks for the info all.
> 
> I had to fight tooth an nail, went so far as to set-up the termination date of my service.
> 
> Here is what I got:
> -no charge HR20 ($19.95 s/h)
> -keep HR10-250
> -new 5 lnb disk installed
> -12 month credit for HD programming ($10)
> - 4 monthes of Premier free
> -NFL gameplan - free
> 
> Like I said it was not easy, this was the 3rd call, and I was fed up and would have canceled. I am already a Premier customer, NFLST, Nascar customer.


You say NFL Gameplan, do you mean Superfan, or is there a new service I am not aware of?


----------



## dizman

tnedator your are correct - NFL Superfan. 

sorry for the confusion


----------



## tnedator

dizman said:


> tnedator your are correct - NFL Superfan.
> 
> sorry for the confusion


Ok, just checking. I know that have a game plan (NCAA or something) and of course Super Fan, but considering they also have Supercast (web broadcast of Sunday ticket) and are constantly coming up with new pakcages or twists, I just wanted to make sure I didn't need to fork over more money to them. lol


----------



## bundini

Just had my HR20 installed, and I'm diggin' it so far. It's much faster... the remote is less fragile (albeit bulkier) and once I get to know where everything is, I think I'll forget how much I loved the TIVO GUI. 

Had a very chatty and knowledgable installer, and we talked about the following.: 

- He said that in his experience, DirecTV CSR's are much more likely to give you better deals on upgrades if you're signed on to their monthly protection plan. (Even more so than if you're a long time customer). I have 2 HR-10's, and was only able to get one upgraded for free. He suggested signing onto the monthly protection play, waiting 30 days, and then reporting the 2nd one as non-operational (key to this, he said, is to say there is no light on in the machine... dead box. That way, they won't run you through those lengthy diagnostic steps.) Thinks I'll get the new machine for free that way.

He also said the installers have been told the new machines HAVE to have a phone line connected... and if they go 2 weeks without, DirecTv will turn off the DVR capability. Not sure I understand completely why, but the phone technology is different in these new boxes, and the box requires hook-up. He said boxes that go more than 2 weeks without a phone connection are in jeopardy of being turned off (the dvr function) and that they are not letting installers put these new boxes in if there is no phone line.

He also said they've been told the MPEG2 stream will be turned off in January. When I told him I was planning on selling my HR10 on eBay, he said whoever bought it would only have HD programming for a few months (so I've decided not to do that to anyone.) And that he's seen in some instances, that DirecTV wouldn't activate a used HR10.


----------



## newsposter

i'd have to check over at dbs but i thought one of the 'great things' about the new machine is no phone line if you dont care about PPV

edit: confirmed

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=805331&postcount=2


----------



## tnedator

bundini said:


> He also said they've been told the MPEG2 stream will be turned off in January. When I told him I was planning on selling my HR10 on eBay, he said whoever bought it would only have HD programming for a few months (so I've decided not to do that to anyone.) And that he's seen in some instances, that DirecTV wouldn't activate a used HR10.


Most likely shop-rumors with no basis. If DirecTV turns off the HDs that soon, they will almost certainly have to replace a great deal of equipment, in a short period of time, as they can't very well have made people sign a two year commitment when they bought the HR10-250 to get HD, only to have the HD turned off before the commitment was even up.

So, time will tell, but that is contrary to press release/news conferences on the subject, and seems unlikely due to the cost factor.


----------



## garbec

I spoke too soon on my deal. The installer showed up and told me he was only authorized to give me a HD receiver, not a DVR. $299 extra for a HR20. I logged onto my directv account and verified that the order was in fact written as a receiver. So I had negotiated a HR20 DVR, but they wrote it up as a receiver only. Even after 2 calls to DirecTV it could not be rectified with the installer, so he left. After he was gone, I called D* and said "cancel". The girl imeditaly offered a free HR20 with 19.95 shipping. Installer take-2 is scheduled for next week.


----------



## Krookut

garbec said:


> I spoke too soon on my deal. The installer showed up and told me he was only authorized to give me a HD receiver, not a DVR. $299 extra for a HR20. I logged onto my directv account and verified that the order was in fact written as a receiver. So I had negotiated a HR20 DVR, but they wrote it up as a receiver only. Even after 2 calls to DirecTV it could not be rectified with the installer, so he left. After he was gone, I called D* and said "cancel". The girl imeditaly offered a free HR20 with 19.95 shipping. Installer take-2 is scheduled for next week.


Same thing happened to me a few weeks ago. I didn't call and threaten to cancel though. I called DirecTV yesterday to try to get the HR20 for $99, all I got was an offer for $299. I wonder what criteria they use to offer some people the HR20 for $99, or for free. I've been with them since 2003, have total choice plus, usually HBO or SHO, and HD package. I don't use PPV or get ST.


----------



## bundini

I don't know if there's anything to it, but my installer told me the CSR's give deference to those with the monthly protection plan (even more so than longtime customers). Try signing on... and call back in a month see how you do with the upgrade request. Worst case, it costs you $6 for the month on the protection plan.


----------



## charlieg

garbec said:


> I spoke too soon on my deal. The installer showed up and told me he was only authorized to give me a HD receiver, not a DVR. $299 extra for a HR20. I logged onto my directv account and verified that the order was in fact written as a receiver. So I had negotiated a HR20 DVR, but they wrote it up as a receiver only. Even after 2 calls to DirecTV it could not be rectified with the installer, so he left. After he was gone, I called D* and said "cancel". The girl imeditaly offered a free HR20 with 19.95 shipping. Installer take-2 is scheduled for next week.


 You really do have to call to verify and then call again to confirm before the installer shows up. When I cut my deal with DirecTV, for one reason or another they split the installations into two separate visits. I tried but was unable to make them both the same day when I spoke with the original CSR in retention but they did give me the option of calling the installation company directly to see if I could combine the two visits. Anyway, the details were as follows ... one installation set up for Friday afternoon (8/17) to install the new dish and a single H20 HD receiver. The second visit was the following Saturday (8/18) morning to install one HR20 and one H20. I didn't want to take off Friday afternoon if I could just get the entire job done on Saturday but even the local installation company said they could only make a note that I requested combining the two installations.

A few days before the installation(s), I just so happened to log into my DirecTV account and I saw that one of the visits (the Friday afternoon appointment) was listed as canceled and that I needed to call to reschedule. I was thinking at this point that they did combine the two appointments but I figured I would call to confirm. The install rep. did indeed confirm that the two visits were combined and that they were coming with two (2) H20's and one (1) HR20. Great, I think ... until I get a call on Friday the 17th to confirm the appointment for the following day and it says that they will be installing only one H20 along with the HR20. I thought that this might simply be a limitation of the automated notification system (only notifying me about one of the two combined events) but being the paranoid sort that I am, I thought it best to follow up with a call to confirm.

After getting bounced over to DirecTV by the first installation CSR and waiting on hold for over 10 minutes, I hung up and called the installation company back figuring that this was their error/issue and DirecTV wasn't going to be able to resolve it in a manner that would get me all the equipment we originally agreed upon installed the next day. This time I actually spoke to someone who was willing to check the two job numbers I provided and was able to confirm that for one reason or another, one of the H20's got dropped from the installation list. He figured they probably thought it was a duplicate but agreed to make the change to the work order. He added that DirecTV might end up charging me again for the receiver (even though the charge was already paid) but he reassured me that if that happened I would be able to get credited because this was all in the system and documented.

Very long story short, the installer showed up on Saturday morning with all the equipment for both service calls and everything went quite smoothly. No additional charges have yet shown up on my DirecTV bill either so I think all is well (fingers crossed).


----------



## GreyGhost00

I have two HR10-250s. Just called retention and was offered the $99 deal and I balked, stating I'd paid $1000 for the HD Tivos (which I did for one) and wasn't too keen about shelling out more money.

The retention CSR then offered the first HR20 for free (no ship) and the second for $99, plus shipping. To offset the cost, he provided a credit of $20 for 6 months, making the swap essentially free. Could've probably gotten more by pushing, but was happy with that deal.

So my deal is: $124 for two HR20-700s, Slimline dish install and a $120 credit over 6 mo.

Two-year commitment which was fine since I am a NFLST and MLBEI sub as well.

The only down side? The earliest install wasn't until 9/20 (!)


----------



## guins

I called D* today and went straight to 'Retention' after saying 'Cancel service' at the first prompt. All I said was I wanted to upgrade to an HD DVR (I only have regular Hughes DTivos - non-HD). The CSR saw that I was a long time customer and immediately said the deal we have now is 'we'll send you a new HR-20 made by Directv and all you have to pay is $19.99 plus we'll install a new dish at no charge, plus we'll install the new receiver and move your old receiver to another room, no charge.' She even threw in 6 months of FREE HD service! She said also 'D* will be adding several additional HD channels next month'....'bringing their total offerings to like 35' (I think she said 35). She said I can get all of my local channels in HD too.

They are backlogged on installs in my area. The earliest they can come is Sept. 19th, but I'm happy with only paying $19.99 for a new HD DVR & dish.

<Rescheduled appt for this Monday on-line....so total time from phone call to install = one week.> :up: :up: :up: :up:


----------



## ElVee

guins said:


> I called D* today and went straight to 'Retention' after saying 'Cancel service' at the first prompt. All I said was I wanted to upgrade to an HD DVR (I only have regular Hughes DTivos - non-HD). The CSR saw that I was a long time customer and immediately said the deal we have now is 'we'll send you a new HR-20 made by Directv and all you have to pay is $19.99 plus we'll install a new dish at no charge, plus we'll install the new receiver and move your old receiver to another room, no charge.' She even threw in 6 months of FREE HD service! She said also 'D* will be adding several additional HD channels next month'....'bringing their total offerings to like 35' (I think she said 35). She said I can get all of my local channels in HD too.
> 
> They are backlogged on installs in my area. The earliest they can come is Sept. 19th, but I'm happy with only paying $19.99.


Don't worry about the backlog. That happened to me as well. When I made my call on Sunday August 19th, she gave me an install date of September 7th. I said "Thanks!".

I went to the DirecTv website to check the installation schedule and sure enough, it was full until the 7th. However, I went on again on Monday (still full), then Tuesday. Lo and behold, there were earlier openings. I rescheduled online for Friday the 24th.

Needless to say, I'm now enjoying my second HR-20, weeks before the original scheduled date.

Continue to check their site for closer installation dates.


----------



## GreyGhost00

How do you check for available dates?


----------



## newsposter

hey when's the stuff on the 119 moving? I can't get it in and if im gonna have to pay 10/month for hd, want all the stuff


----------



## ElVee

GreyGhost00 said:


> How do you check for available dates?


Sign in to DirecTv.com. Go to 'Customer Service' and 'Change Your Installation Date'


----------



## guins

ElVee said:


> Sign in to DirecTv.com. Go to 'Customer Service' and 'Change Your Installation Date'


Thanks for the tip, I will definitely do that!


----------



## guins

I took your advice about changing my installation date and today I saw on directv.com that this Saturday AM/PM or Monday AM/PM was available so I grabbed Monday AM. So glad I don't have to wait a month! Thanks for the great tip. directv.com is a very handy site. :up:


----------



## tivoboy

garbec said:


> I spoke too soon on my deal. The installer showed up and told me he was only authorized to give me a HD receiver, not a DVR. $299 extra for a HR20. I logged onto my directv account and verified that the order was in fact written as a receiver. So I had negotiated a HR20 DVR, but they wrote it up as a receiver only. Even after 2 calls to DirecTV it could not be rectified with the installer, so he left. After he was gone, I called D* and said "cancel". The girl imeditaly offered a free HR20 with 19.95 shipping. Installer take-2 is scheduled for next week.


unfortunately, this same thing happened to me during a Feb install at Location 2. Installer showed up, no DVR. I called D* and said, WTF. I had everything written down, names, etc. I told the installer, dont' start a thing till I resolve this. I asked for a supervisor and named named and gave her the detail I had and said look, either put it in or your man can go. 15 minutes later, he was starting the job at 19.99$. EVERYTHING can be done, level I will always say -sorry, we are not able to do that "technically, or the system won't allow it"

But this is just a bait and switch, or incompetent order takers. D* needs to take responsibility for it somehow.


----------



## tivoboy

GreyGhost00 said:


> The only down side? The earliest install wasn't until 9/20 (!)


call D* and get the name of the local installer and number, then call then and get on their waitlist. I had the same thing in Feb, install wasn't till MARCH 19, they came about five days later. Sometimes, there is a STOCK problem of H20's ,but I don't think that is still the case


----------



## BBHughes

garbec said:


> I spoke too soon on my deal. The installer showed up and told me he was only authorized to give me a HD receiver, not a DVR. $299 extra for a HR20. I logged onto my directv account and verified that the order was in fact written as a receiver. So I had negotiated a HR20 DVR, but they wrote it up as a receiver only. Even after 2 calls to DirecTV it could not be rectified with the installer, so he left. After he was gone, I called D* and said "cancel". The girl imeditaly offered a free HR20 with 19.95 shipping. Installer take-2 is scheduled for next week.


For those with Orders in the system for HR20's, what does it show up as when you look at the order on the DirecTV site. Mine shows up as "DIRECTV HD Rec. (Expanded HD Prog. Capable)" and now I'm a little worried that Rec. stands for receiver, not recorder.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

BBHughes said:


> For those with Orders in the system for HR20's, what does it show up as when you look at the order on the DirecTV site. Mine shows up as "DIRECTV HD Rec. (Expanded HD Prog. Capable)" and now I'm a little worried that Rec. stands for receiver, not recorder.


Swap Replace HR20 IRD


----------



## charlieg

Mine showed up in the system as:

DIRECTV HD DVR (Expanded HD Prog. Capable)

and the installer had the right stuff. I suggest you call to confirm exactly what was ordered.

- Charlie


----------



## BBHughes

Good thing I called just now because they indeed did have the incorrect receiver on the order. Of course at first they didn't want to honor the 19.95 price I got the first time and said that an HD DVR would be 99.00. Eventually I got a supervisor on the phone who honored the first price but now I've got to reschedule my install which sucks.


----------



## ElVee

BBHughes said:


> Good thing I called just now because they indeed did have the incorrect receiver on the order. Of course at first they didn't want to honor the 19.95 price I got the first time and said that an HD DVR would be 99.00. Eventually I got a supervisor on the phone who honored the first price but now I've got to reschedule my install which sucks.





tivoboy said:


> call D* and get the name of the local installer and number, then call then and get on their waitlist. I had the same thing in Feb, install wasn't till MARCH 19, they came about five days later. Sometimes, there is a STOCK problem of H20's ,but I don't think that is still the case


See the previous posts about rescheduling your installation dates online at DirecTv.com. You get a much better date


----------



## YoureToast

Success story:

Called main number.
Said Cancel Service at appropriate prompt.
Told CR I wanted to switch to cable because I was told I have to pay for a new Receiver.
He asked how much I was told, I said "I don't remember, but any amount was too much cuz I paid for 2 DVRs and an off-air antenna and I've been paying > $100 a month for many many years."
He said, "Thats strange cuz we can get you a receiver for no cost."

I said, "Well do I still have to pay for HD service".

He said "Well the service is $9.99 but let me see what I can do."

I said, "Any chance I can try out Showtime"

End result:

Installation scheduled for 2 weeks of new dish and H20. No charge.
Free HD service for 12 months.
Free Showtime for 3 months.
No mention of any 2 year commitment.

Not bad.


----------



## Billy66

Oh you got a commitment out of it. be sure of that YoureToast.


----------



## narrod

I used a different tact. I got no where with customer service. The best they would offer was $99 each for the two HR20s I wanted. I declined. I sent an email to the President os Sales and Service. I received a prompt reply saying I would be contacted by customer advocacy (whatever that is). Within an hour I received a call. They are installing a new dish and changing out the two HD DVRs (I keep them) with HR20s. All at no cost.


----------



## ddruker

Have 3 HD-Tivo's expanded to 800 Gigs each. HDMI went out on one of them, which is being replaced for free under the protection plan - the rep said they don't have any more HR10-250's, so he would be sending an HR-20 instead. He said I would need a new dish and new multiswitch but he couldn't order them until after the new HR20 arrives. 

So I called back the retention line and asked him to send out the new dish - the rep immediately offered to swap out my other two HD-Tivo's for free, and send out an installer to put in a new dish and multi-switch as well. Apparently I get to keep all three HD-Tivo's. There was no discussion of any extended commitment, or leased vs. owned, but I really don't care other than I probably need to cancel the protection plan once the new units all get here. 

His other comments - in September another 50 HD channels and 150 in December. In December no more high Def that the HR10 can receive. So now is the time to swap, which is why they are doing it for free. 

So net is all new gear including 3 new HR-20's, new dish and new multiswitch for free, without really even asking for it.


----------



## milominderbinder

YoureToast said:


> ...Installation scheduled for 2 weeks of new dish and H20. No charge....


Sorry but You are toast!

You got the wrong receiver. The whole point is that you want the *H*D DV*R*: HR20.

Call them back!

It is not too late.

Everyone, make sure you don't end up stuck with an H20.

You want an H*R*20!

- Craig


----------



## Arcady

There are not 50 cable channels that are even available or planning to offer HD versions.

DirecTV likes to lie a lot.


----------



## milominderbinder

Arcady,

You are right, there are not 50 HD Cable channels.

DISH is at 37 now and promises a total of 50 by next week. The DISH forums love their HD content.

Here are the channels confirmed by both DIRECTV and the channels along with delivery dates. The D10 sat is up and ready to go!

These contract delivery dates have been announced publicly...

There are the 14 Current National HD Channels
HBO East
Showtime East
ESPN HD
ESPN2 HD
Discovery HD Theater
HDNet
HDNet Movies
TNT in HD
Universal HD
HD PPV
ABC (75%, local, 10% national feed waivers)
CBS (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)
NBC (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)
Fox (75% local, 10% national feed waivers)

24 Contracts Require Delivery in September
A&E HD
Animal Planet 
Cinemax East
Cinemax West
Chiller HD
CNBC HD
Discovery Channel 
HBO East 
HBO2 East
HBO West
HBO2 West
HBO Family East
HBO Family West
HBO Latino
HBO Signature
MoreMax
TLC
The Science Channel
Starz East
Starz West
Starz Edge
Starz Comedy
Starz Kids & Family
The History Channel HD

That's a total of 38 HD Channels if you are keeping score contracted for availability in Sept. that have been stated publicly.

21 Contracted 2007 Deliveries not promised as September Delivery:
ABC Family
Big Ten Network
Bravo
Cartoon Network
CNBC
CNN
ESPNNEWS HD
Food Network
FX
HGTV
MTV
National Geographic
NFL Network
SciFi Channel
Showtime West
Speed
TBS
The Tennis Channel
The Weather Channel
USA Network
Versus HD

So that is 59 named HD channels promised for this year.

Add in the 10+ RSN's in HD and we found 69 of the promised 100 channels for 2007.

Also they have stated that they will offer the following channels but we have heard they may not arrive until 2008:
Disney Channel
Discovery Health
Discovery Military
Toon Disney

We are still only at 73 HD Channels. 

We know that there are at least 30 other HD channels are already being broadcast or announced but not promised by DIRECTV. Those remain to be seen. 

The next weeks and months will be painful for the cable providers stuck watching from the sidelines.

- Craig


----------



## Arcady

HD cartoons?

Most of those channels do not own HD content. What are they going to play in HD? 20 HBO's. Whatever. Where is real HD content? Every one of those HBO channels is redundant, since all of the content hits the single HD channel anyway.

CNN in HD? Huh? Who cares. Have you seen CNN HD? They stretch their SD sources and force midget-vision, like TNT does. I'd rather watch the SD version than watch squisho-vision.

As for the Sci-Fi Channel, they already killed all their shows that I care about, so I can watch the death of Atlantis in HD - great. I don't need to see B-movies about snakes and alligators in HD.

The only thing there that might be cool is USA in HD, if they can manage to not screw up Monk and Psych.


Besides, if the box doesn't reliably record, who cares what the programming is?


----------



## NatasNJ

Well which is it? Directv lying about the # of HD channels or that the channels they offer suck? I guess you just keep switching up your comments till you feel you made a valid point.

If you don't want an HR20 or Directv then fine go sign up with Cable or dish.

Hell name 50 channels that have quality programming HD or not. Your points make no point other than you *****ing and whining. Either get on the bus or not. No need to just whine about it.



Arcady said:


> HD cartoons?
> 
> Most of those channels do not own HD content. What are they going to play in HD? 20 HBO's. Whatever. Where is real HD content? Every one of those HBO channels is redundant, since all of the content hits the single HD channel anyway.
> 
> CNN in HD? Huh? Who cares. Have you seen CNN HD? They stretch their SD sources and force midget-vision, like TNT does. I'd rather watch the SD version than watch squisho-vision.
> 
> As for the Sci-Fi Channel, they already killed all their shows that I care about, so I can watch the death of Atlantis in HD - great. I don't need to see B-movies about snakes and alligators in HD.
> 
> The only thing there that might be cool is USA in HD, if they can manage to not screw up Monk and Psych.
> 
> Besides, if the box doesn't reliably record, who cares what the programming is?


----------



## NatasNJ

Well I just called Directv to inquire on what deals I could get. 

My offer was HR20, new dish, install for $19.95 + tax. 
Also got 6 months HD access thrown in for free. 
Date for install is Sept 21st. I was also told that the NEW HD channels will be available on Sept 15th. She did not hesitate when asked about this. She didn't have a full list but spewed off CartoonHD, History Channel, A&E among others. 
2 year commitment included. Which blows.

But the ONLY thing I can see wanting to switch to is some other service to get Howard TV but hope it does end up in Directv. Nothing mentioned about giving back my TivoHD. It ain't leaving my house. 

I will cancel if for some reaosn before my install date I encounter new information that makes me 2nd guess my decision. I have Verizon TV available but after all the EXTRAS I don't see it beating the NEW directv package.


----------



## milominderbinder

Arcady,

All of the old Warner and Hannah Barbara catalog were HD. You may not like cartoons, or football or tennis or whatever, but others do.

Have you tried the DIRECTV HBO package? I get all different programs.

You may not like news in HD. That's OK. For us though, it was simply amazing when our Chicago ABC affiliate went HD for their news. Everyone I know almost instantly switched to ABC. NBC and CBS Chicago just can't seem to figure out how far behind they are.

Just like with SD channels, everyone will pick and choose from the HD buffet table.

If you read the press releases from all of the channels, the channels are all frantically working to offer as much HD as possible. As Discovery said, going 100% HD is a matter of survival. 

Monk is wonderful in HD as are so many programs I never got to see in HD the first time like Boomtown and old episodes of the CSI's. So many programs have been recording in HD for a while now. It is fun to get to go back and see them.


----------



## Castaa

Is there any minimum time frame the HR10-250 with HD channels will be supported by D*?

Is there an expected time frame estimate? I want to keep my box as long as possible as long as I get some HD channels.


----------



## fasTLane

Was told by CS email that we would receive the current HD for some time to come, whatever that means.


----------



## NatasNJ

On my schedule install it says SWAP on it. I hope they think they are getting my Directivo-HD from me. Over my dead body.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

NatasNJ said:


> On my schedule install it says SWAP on it. I hope they think they are getting my Directivo-HD from me. Over my dead body.


NatasNJ,

I called yesterday to check on my Saturday morning install (6:00 - 8:00 am window) and verified in my case that they weren't looking to get my 10-250's back.

Thay ain't getting them - not to mention that I have a few recordings left to watch still.

But who know what the installer will try to do.


----------



## NatasNJ

Jebberwocky! said:


> NatasNJ,
> 
> I called yesterday to check on my Saturday morning install (6:00 - 8:00 am window) and verified in my case that they weren't looking to get my 10-250's back.
> 
> Thay ain't getting them - not to mention that I have a few recordings left to watch still.
> 
> But who know what the installer will try to do.


Yeah. I will call in a week or two and double check to make sure. I am hoping in next week or so the HD channels release happens and I can determine if the new channels warrant a new 2 year contract. Though I figure I can always just suspend service OVER AND OVER again if I really wanted to get away from Directv down the road.

I wish Verizon or Directv would get Howard TV. Annoying. And Verizon hasn't mentioned any future HD channels or when they will be coming out. So it looks like Directv may be the leader for awhile. How long is a good question though.


----------



## milominderbinder

Castaa said:


> Is there any minimum time frame the HR10-250 with HD channels will be supported by D*?
> 
> Is there an expected time frame estimate? I want to keep my box as long as possible as long as I get some HD channels.


The insiders say that they want to keep the MPG2 channels alive until football is over. Then, before baseball starts get all of the HR10s and H10s replaced.

Why don't you keep the HR10 and get the HR20 now for $19.

Why not have the best of both worlds?

They should offer you 4 to 12 months of HD programming for free if you ask and Showtime for 6 months for free as well.

You have to have the HD service even for the 10 channels the HR10 can get anyway so that is $40 to $120.

Here is what you would get:

One extra HD DVR
Two extra tuners 
50 extra hours of HD recording capacity
Access extra 60 HD channels in September, a total of 100 by year's end.

Net cost should be a *savings* of $20 to $100.

For the ones who are able to negotiate the 12 months of HD for free and the Showtime for free, that is $192 in credits. That covers the $19 shipping and 34 months of mirroring fee for the HR20.

Just out of curiosity I called today and asked if I could replace my old Sony SAT-T60 with an HR20 for $19. He said sure and was already asking about an installation date before I could stop him! That is an old _SD_ receiver.

Please help me understand:

Why wouldn't every HR10 or H10 owner call right now today and have DIRECTV pay them for adding an HR20?

I am just not understanding...

- Craig


----------



## JoeTiVo

milominderbinder said:


> ...
> 
> Just out of curiosity I called today and asked if I could replace my old Sony SAT-T60 with an HR20 for $19. He said sure and was already asking about an installation date before I could stop him! That is an old _SD_ receiver.


That's exactly what I did when I recently upgraded to 2 HR20s. I upgraded my HR10-250 and my old Sony SAT-T60. Both at the same time, with new dish for $19.95. It's a great deal for sure.


----------



## NatasNJ

milominderbinder said:


> Why wouldn't every HR10 or H10 owner call right now today and have DIRECTV pay them for adding an HR20?
> 
> I am just not understanding...
> 
> - Craig


My major hangup was giving up a TIVO interface for the Directv setup. Since I plan to use both HD receivers for awhile it is not a huge deal but I know I would and most people on here would prefer to stick with Tivo for as long as possible. Once the new channels launch it will be harder to justify sticking with Tivo since you won't be getting the new channels. Right now there is no real difference. Soon though it will change.


----------



## joelq

Arcady said:


> HD cartoons?
> 
> Most of those channels do not own HD content. What are they going to play in HD? 20 HBO's. Whatever. Where is real HD content? Every one of those HBO channels is redundant, since all of the content hits the single HD channel anyway.
> 
> CNN in HD? Huh? Who cares. Have you seen CNN HD? They stretch their SD sources and force midget-vision, like TNT does. I'd rather watch the SD version than watch squisho-vision.
> 
> As for the Sci-Fi Channel, they already killed all their shows that I care about, so I can watch the death of Atlantis in HD - great. I don't need to see B-movies about snakes and alligators in HD.
> 
> The only thing there that might be cool is USA in HD, if they can manage to not screw up Monk and Psych.
> 
> Besides, if the box doesn't reliably record, who cares what the programming is?


Dude, sounds like you're perfectly happy with the stuff you're already getting anyway. Good for you! Heck, forget HD altogether. Just watch SD! Geez....


----------



## joelq

milominderbinder said:


> Please help me understand:
> 
> Why wouldn't every HR10 or H10 owner call right now today and have DIRECTV pay them for adding an HR20?
> 
> I am just not understanding...
> 
> - Craig


I don't get it either, but here are their reasons:

- can't (or don't want to) adjust to the HR20 UI
- no DLB on the HR20
- don't want a 2-year commitment
- can't (or don't wan to) adjust to the HR20 remote
- they don't care for the additional HD channels coming up anyway, so they'd rather stick with their obsolete MPEG-2 equipment

I'm sure there will be more.


----------



## milominderbinder

Notes:
_You should be able to keep your old receiver and get an HR20 for no more than $199. Many are getting their new HR20's for just the shipping cost of $19.

The deal you will get depends on your your "Hearts" rating that factors in payment history, automatic payments, protection plan, tenure, current hardware, when your commitment renews, sports packages, etc. There is no such thing as an "A List," just 1, 3, or 5 Hearts. If you are 5 Hearts, you have the winning hand._

Upgrading to the HR20:
1. Check out the competition. Print out the offers from Comcast, DISH, etc.
2. Call DIRECTV at 800-531-5000. Ask for the "Retention Department." They have greater flexibillity.
3. Be polite. Tell them you want to stay with DIRECTV. Repeat their name & write it down. Ask them how many "Hearts" you are. 
4. Ask if you can upgrade to the HR20 for the $19 shipping? Tell the competing offers if needed.
5. See if you can get any months of free HD and Showtime. You may have to call more than once.
6. Make sure you get a morning installation for timeliness and to have extra equipment on hand.
7. Before you hang up, confirm that your work order is for: 
DIRECTV HD DVR (Expanded HD Prog. Capable)
Standard Professional Install that will include: 
- New RG6 cabling and connectors (up to 125' x 4 as needed)
- Zinwell 6x8 Multiswitch (if needed)
DIRECTV 5-LNB Multi-Satellite Dish (if dish upgrade needed)
Your date and price
8. Click here to verify your order.
9. Click here to see if you can move up your installation date.
10. Click here to verify your changes to your bill.
11. Follow the HR-20 Installation and Initial Setup Tips.

While you are waiting check out these resources:
133 Undocumented Tips & Tricks
HR20 FAQ
TiVO to HR20 Survival Guide
HR20 Official User Manual
Old HR10's are still selling for $70-170 on eBay.

Good luck!

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

NatasNJ said:


> My major hangup was giving up a TIVO interface for the Directv setup. Since I plan to use both HD receivers for awhile it is not a huge deal but I know I would and most people on here would prefer to stick with Tivo for as long as possible. Once the new channels launch it will be harder to justify sticking with Tivo since you won't be getting the new channels. Right now there is no real difference. Soon though it will change.


In two weeks when DIRECTV will have the 70 HD channels and is backed up weeks for installs...

Why would they be motivated to give you this deal?

You will make money adding the HR20 today. Why do you want to delay making money?

You have never used the HR20 interface in your home so you really don't know how you will like it.

If you end up hating the HR20 so much that don't even want the extra storage or 60 new HD channels, suspend it. You still pocket the money you made.

What do you gain by not taking a sure thing today if you can get it?

- Craig


----------



## Sir_winealot

milominderbinder said:


> In two weeks when DIRECTV will have the 70 HD channels and is backed up weeks for installs...
> 
> Why would they be motivated to give you this deal?
> 
> You will make money adding the HR20 today. Why do you want to delay making money?


How do you know for certain that installs will be "backed up weeks?"

What would D*'s motivation for _not_ giving someone the same deal (that many have to ridiculously play CSR roulette to get) in a few weeks?


----------



## LlamaLarry

milominderbinder said:


> Why wouldn't every HR10 or H10 owner call right now today and have DIRECTV pay them for adding an HR20?


The second SWM installs are confirmed I will place my call to replace my 6 boxes. My cabling closet is just a disaster right now.


----------



## milominderbinder

Sir_winealot said:


> How do you know for certain that installs will be "backed up weeks?"


I bet that you know that there are no guaratees in life except death.

In some areas, we are already reading in this thread about 3-4 week installation delays. Last year, as the HR20's were rolling out, installation times went to to 4, 5, 6, and even 8 or 10 weeks in some areas. I am guessing that the HD splash will be just a tad bigger.

What do you gain by waiting? Why not take the sure thing now? Suspend it if you don't like it.

What do you have to lose?

- Craig


----------



## Squeak

milominderbinder said:


> Please help me understand:
> 
> Why wouldn't every HR10 or H10 owner call right now today and have DIRECTV pay them for adding an HR20?


I'll tell you why, and I am having a real hard time with it right now: it will cost me more money on a monthly basis.

Right now, I have an HR10-250, but I do not pay for any HD channels. I get all of my HD OTA for local channels, and everything works great. For the odd occasions that Ohio State football gets put onto ESPN HD or ESPN2 HD, I add the HD package for that week, and then shut it back off.

If I get an HR20, I will have to pay the HD access fee of $10/month to be able to record my local OTA channels. Sure, I will get a lot more HD content -- but are the channels they are offering worth it to me?

So, I am in a dillema -- do I want to pay the $10/month for the right to have an HR20?


----------



## dagap

Squeak said:


> For the odd occasions that Ohio State football gets put onto ESPN HD or ESPN2 HD, I add the HD package for that week, and then shut it back off.


Does that still work? I thought that any change to your programming package would kill the grandfathering.


----------



## marshall88

I just called D* and they offered to replace my HR10-250 with a HR20 for no cost (including no installation or activation fees). There was also no 2 yr. commitment required. The earliest they could schedule the change was Sep. 27.

One question I have is about an owned vs. leased unit. I own my HR10-250, so the D* rep told me I could keep it when the new HR20 arrived. However, they said that the new HR20 unit would be a leased unit. Other than the ability to keep the unit after a "swap" such as this, is there any reason to own a unit versus leasing a unit? I do not plan to ever sell my unit on Ebay, and would only give back this unit when the next upgraded unit is available from D*. The D* rep said there is no monthly lease fee for the leased unit, so I can't see why I should really care about whether I own or lease the unit.


----------



## milominderbinder

Squeak said:


> ...So, I am in a dillema -- do I want to pay the $10/month for the right to have an HR20?


Why don't you call and see if they won't give you 12 months of HD for free with your HR20 upgrade? See if they will add in Showtime or HBO for 6 months as a part of it?

The only way you will know if you really want the new HD channels will be to give them a chance over the next few weeks and months.

One other thing to factor in is VOD. They are just rolling out the initial beta test with the first 1,000 programs. I was not really thinking there would be much I would be interested in, but wow are there a lot of movies that we want to see.

The HR10 will not be able to do VOD either.

A year from now you should be getting 100-150 HD channels. If in 12 months, you just don't see the value in the HD channels, suspend the HR20.

Why not call them and see what they say? The worst that could happen is that they woudl say no.

- Craig


----------



## NatasNJ

milominderbinder said:


> In two weeks when DIRECTV will have the 70 HD channels and is backed up weeks for installs...
> 
> Why would they be motivated to give you this deal?
> 
> You will make money adding the HR20 today. Why do you want to delay making money?
> 
> You have never used the HR20 interface in your home so you really don't know how you will like it.
> 
> If you end up hating the HR20 so much that don't even want the extra storage or 60 new HD channels, suspend it. You still pocket the money you made.
> 
> What do you gain by not taking a sure thing today if you can get it?
> 
> - Craig


My commitment ends at years end. So by jumping to the HR20 I startover with 2 years. So if say Verizon ups their offerings I technically could switch over to them instead of being tied up for 2 years. I just hate the commitment crap. Verizon seems to be into it now as well. Sucks.

Also I had the R15 when they were fairly new and HATED The FF speed. Other than that it was OK Iguess but the general remote/interface wasn't my favorite. Another reason I am slow to jump on this.

Is there any reason to wait for the new HR21 device? Just wondering if that will offer anything that the HR20 won't or can't?


----------



## milominderbinder

marshall88 said:


> ...Other than the ability to keep the unit after a "swap" such as this, is there any reason to own a unit versus leasing a unit?


It costs $749 up front to buy the HR20. They will not negotiate on that price.

I know that in many areas they are now at 4 to 5 weeks for installation. And the delay has been growing steadily over the past month.

See the post above about how to check back to possibly move up your installation date and to verify that you will have a great install.

- Craig


----------



## dagap

milominderbinder said:


> Why wouldn't every HR10 or H10 owner call right now today and have DIRECTV pay them for adding an HR20?


Permanent loss of grandfathered programming plan.
2 year committment.
$10/mo HD access fee.
$5/mo addl receiver fee.
Time and hassle of install (last service call was awful, requring 3 visits and two half-days away from work).
Time required to re-setup my stuff. Program the Harmonys, etc.
More holes in my roof and another abandoned mounting bracket.

Perhaps everyone's situation doesn't exactly match your own?


----------



## fasTLane

just don't answer the door.


----------



## tvl76

The CSR's keep telling me the only way I can get this receiver is to have it "professionally" installed by one of their installers. They will not agree to just mail it to me. WHY ? I already have the slimline dish, the 6x8 zinwell, an HR10 and subscribed to HD. 
I was also told that I can not connect two receivers to one TV. Is that a policy of theirs?
Has anyone gotten the HR20 without the 2 year commit ?


----------



## RS4

tvl76 said:


> The CSR's keep telling me the only way I can get this receiver is to have it "professionally" installed by one of their installers. They will not agree to just mail it to me. WHY ? I already have the slimline dish, the 6x8 zinwell, an HR10 and subscribed to HD.
> I was also told that I can not connect two receivers to one TV. Is that a policy of theirs?
> Has anyone gotten the HR20 without the 2 year commit ?


Marshall88 said he got his without a 2-year commitment. That's why I'm not sigining up. I don't think I'd like the HR20 and I'm not going to stay with DirecTV for 2 years using something I don't like. I don't understand why they don't have a 30-day trial.

I have 3 receivers hooked up in the living room and they have never said anything to me about that. They all go through my Sony home theater receiver.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

tvl76 said:


> The CSR's keep telling me the only way I can get this receiver is to have it "professionally" installed by one of their installers. They will not agree to just mail it to me. WHY ? I already have the slimline dish, the 6x8 zinwell, an HR10 and subscribed to HD.
> I was also told that I can not connect two receivers to one TV. Is that a policy of theirs?
> Has anyone gotten the HR20 without the 2 year commit ?


I've got three 10-250's attached to one TV 

If you don't need to get it installed, simply tell the tech who deliveres it to your door that his services are not needed - every time I've done that I signed the paperwork and they went on their way.


----------



## Squeak

Jebberwocky! said:


> If you don't need to get it installed, simply tell the tech who deliveres it to your door that his services are not needed - every time I've done that I signed the paperwork and they went on their way.


+1 -- I have done this 3 times. Every time I tell the installer that I am happy to do it myself, I show them my A/V rack in the basement, and explain it would just be easier for me to do it.

They are always VERY happy to get on their way -- since it means they can finish up earlier.


----------



## desulliv

marshall88 said:


> I just called D* and they offered to replace my HR10-250 with a HR20 for no cost (including no installation or activation fees). There was also no 2 yr. commitment required. The earliest they could schedule the change was Sep. 27.
> 
> One question I have is about an owned vs. leased unit. I own my HR10-250, so the D* rep told me I could keep it when the new HR20 arrived. However, they said that the new HR20 unit would be a leased unit. Other than the ability to keep the unit after a "swap" such as this, is there any reason to own a unit versus leasing a unit? I do not plan to ever sell my unit on Ebay, and would only give back this unit when the next upgraded unit is available from D*. The D* rep said there is no monthly lease fee for the leased unit, so I can't see why I should really care about whether I own or lease the unit.


I'm being charged $4.99 lease fee for each of my "leased" units--two HR20s and one H20.


----------



## tvl76

RS4 said:


> Marshall88 said he got his without a 2-year commitment. That's why I'm not sigining up. I don't think I'd like the HR20 and I'm not going to stay with DirecTV for 2 years using something I don't like. I don't understand why they don't have a 30-day trial.
> 
> I have 3 receivers hooked up in the living room and they have never said anything to me about that. They all go through my Sony home theater receiver.


I had one CSR offer the H20 to me, at no cost, except for the $4.99 / month lease fee. He did not say anything about the 2 yr commitment. I did not ask until I called back the next day to verify the order and was told then that with the free HR20, I also accepted the 2 year deal.


----------



## Squeak

Is the lease fee the same as the mirroring fee? Or is that on top of it?


----------



## eddieras99

i'm checking out dish - i've been with directv for years (started with primestar) and nhl center ice sub. i hate the fact that i'm stuck with the away team broadcast and dish provides both home/ away broadcasts. the only thing holding me back was my HR10 - but if its on the way out-- i might as well check it out...


----------



## charlieg

Squeak said:


> Is the lease fee the same as the mirroring fee? Or is that on top of it?


They are one in the same ... under the new "lease" model, there is only the receiver lease fee.


----------



## rkester

My folks are moving from a cable + DTV house to a only DTV house. My father has the HR10-250 now, and I was able to get them 2 free HR-20s (Plus 5 free SD receivers) with a call to DTV and a conversation with a retention rep. Beat the price I got for my HR20 wich was $75.


----------



## milominderbinder

tvl76 said:


> I had one CSR offer the *H20* to me, at no cost, except for the $4.99 / month lease fee. He did not say anything about the 2 yr commitment. I did not ask until I called back the next day to verify the order and was told then that with the free HR20, I also accepted the 2 year deal.


Please call and confirm that you really got the *HR20*.

You can also click here to see your order.

- Craig


----------



## desulliv

Squeak said:


> Is the lease fee the same as the mirroring fee? Or is that on top of it?


It's the same. My other receivers are listed as "additional receiver" at $4.99 each. So, I guess, it's a mirroring fee rather than a "lease fee". It's listed as "leased receiver" at $4.99.


----------



## Maik

I called retention last night and was given a free HR20 installed, with an install date of this Sunday. I verified the waiver of the $99 by checking my account.


----------



## milominderbinder

There are now 80 new HD channels in "Test Mode".

Here are screen shots of the channels.

In addition, the FCC approved moving the date from Sept 14 to Sept 1. It is expected that it will still take at least 3 days after that.

The absolute earliest for these 80 new HD channels would be Sept 4 but there is no guaranty. Also, these are test channel so not all 80 channel may be added right away.

Still, the fact that DIRECTV has asked to move up the date by two weeks is a very good thing.

Then you will be able to compare the 70-80 new channels on your HR20 side-by-side with your 10 old HD channels on the HR10. The best part is that so many will do this for $19 shipping plus free HD for 6-12 months.

DIRECTV has already announced that if you are capable, the new channels will be at the same numbers as the existing SD channels so these are test channels not the final channel numbers. The new HD channels will be listed first.

- Craig


----------



## LlamaLarry

You seem to be in the know on the current happenings regarding this switch; when will SWM be available?


----------



## fasTLane

lol


----------



## milominderbinder

LlamaLarry said:


> You seem to be in the know on the current happenings regarding this switch; when will SWM be available?


Some have already reported getting the SWM5 as a part of a normal installation. Currently you cannot buy one and cannot request one. They are still promised for later this year. We have heard they have quantities on hand.

SWM is still officially in the test phase but my SWM8 has been working great for months now.

Before someone asks, SWM is Single Wire Multiswitch. One cable can feed up to 5 or 8 tuners distributed throughout the entire house. Instead of two sat cables and an OTA cable, you have one cable going to each HR20.

The HR10 is not capable of SWM.


----------



## LlamaLarry

Just in case the LOL was for my use of SWM. Single Wire Multiswitch. 

ETA: Dang, Milo, you are fast!  I will hang on, but just barely. I already have 12 home runs of RG11 to feed each of my tuners, adding another 6 to carry the lost diplexed OTA crosses my line in the sand.


----------



## Maik

Does anyone know if there is a problem recording programing from the HR20 onto a DVD recorder? I have an HR10-250 set up to do so, but I thought I read that the HR20 could not???


----------



## Anubys

Maik said:


> Does anyone know if there is a problem recording programing from the HR20 onto a DVD recorder? I have an HR10-250 set up to do so, but I thought I read that the HR20 could not???


not only can it do it, but you don't have to set the output to 480i to do it...since the HR20 outputs to all at the same time (so you can output to HDMI, Component, and Composite at the same time)...


----------



## narrod

My HR20s were installed today....three days early. A slimilne 5 LNB dish was also installed as well as a new selfpowered multi-switch to replace my two existing powered switches.
No charge for anything. I decided to replace a standard SD receiver with my leased 10-250 and simply disconnect the old one and keep it as a backup or sell on ebay. The new interface certainly takes some getting used to but, with time, it'll be ok.


----------



## Worth

Just wanted to say thanks for the great posts and ideas, just called and got the hr20 for free, and a $10x12 ($120) credit.

Been a customer of DTV for about 5 years, and I get NFLST and Superfan and all that. 

I love my TiVO, but the deal is just too good, plus I'm moving it upstairs. 

Thanks again guys, great forum.


----------



## tmdlkwd

Last night I had a VM from DTV, probably like many others here.

The message was for the DVR Upgrade-No cost I believe
I will check the message again when I get home

I did try to call in today
On hold, then xferred to the " upgrade offer " Dept.
On hold again for a long time, had to hang up for now.

I sent an email right away too

1)Get new HD DVR offer then:
2) I am looking to swap out my existing HR10-250 and replace it on one of my R10s
3) If all goes well, I am looking to possibly get a 2nd new HD DVR as well?

AND we know have FIOS in my area. TV/Int/and phone...Wow, some really good pricing ( included this in my email to DTV)

4) I will use this for the hopefully programming credits

Right now we have the prem pack, 5 active receivers, and I get the Sunday Ticket as well


----------



## tuncer

Got a question. I upgraded two HR10-250's to HR20's with DTV. The install is on the 10th. When you guys upgraded, did the charge for the order appear on the DTV web site right away or after the install?


----------



## JohnF

I have not seen this one on the thread - if I missed it, sorry for the duplication.

Received an automated call from DirectTV today telling me that because I am special, there is a great offer for me to get the new HD channels. Press 1 to talk with a representative. I pressed 1 and the rep had no idea what I was talking about, so she transferred me to someone who did.

The offer was for a tech to come to my house and bring me two leased HR20 units and take my two owned HR10-250 units and give me a 2 year commitment. They would install a 5 LNB, but I already have one installed. I realize the owned versus leased is not a big deal, especially given the low resale values of the HR10-250 units. But I refused anyway.

With the protection plan on my two HR10-250 units, I was told that if one or both go bad, they will likely be replaced by HR20s which I will own with no commitment.


----------



## andrewket

I just switched to FIOS. I tried their DVR for all of 4 days before I went out and picked up 3 Tivo HDs and picked up some cable cards. It works pretty well. Of course this was within 1-2 days of DTV announcing new software for the HR10-250. I just can't be without Tivo, nothing else compares. And the 30mbps/5mbps Internet is just insane for at home connectivity.

Sorry DTV, you lost a 5+ year, $150/month subscriber by dropping Tivo.

Is my old gear worth anything? Two series 1, Two series 2, and an HR10-250, all upgraded. I forgot exactly to what - it was the maximum the linux kernel on there would support at the time.

Andrew


----------



## Zharin

Well, finally replacing one of my hr10-250's. The installer should be here this afternoon with the new D* dvr, hope it's decent. Figured I should bite the bullet and at least replace my owned one while I can still get a little for it on ebay.

Thank you to everyone on the board for being so helpful over the years with tips and tricks for the TiVo, posting how to get the best deals out of directv, and being very helpful in general.


----------



## rlowe

On the phone with them now. Offering to comp the $99 for two units AND waived the $19.99 Shipping.


... started thinking. Are they expecting me to give them my two HR10-250s? They are mine, I paid for them and am not leasing.


----------



## sotapoppy

rlowe said:


> On the phone with them now. Offering to comp the $99 for two units AND waived the $19.99 Shipping.
> 
> ... started thinking. Are they expecting me to give them my two HR10-250s? They are mine, I paid for them and am not leasing.


They should be yours to keep. I called retention to "swap out" 2 of my 3 HR10s. 2 are owned and 1 is leased. They said they wanted to swap out all 3 HR10s and wanted to charge me $99 for the 3rd but no charge for the 1st 2. No shipping charge on any of them. I agreed after they agreed to give me 12 months of HD for free and 6 months of showtime for free. They are also putting up the new dish and giving me 2 multiswitches since I have 3 standard Tivos in addition to the 3 HR10s. They said I can keep all 3 HR10s. I asked even the leased HR10 and they said yes. They don't want them back. The CSR also said the HR20s will be owned the way the order was written but I doubt that will happen!


----------



## xtc

I just received an Automatic Voicemail from DirecTV as well about the FREE upgrade to an HR20 (I currently own an HR10-250). They left an 888 number to call.

Am I better off calling that number or Retention? I'm guessing retention since they seem to be giving lots of extras like free HD programing and Showtime, etc.


----------



## Nuwanda

Called D* today. The CSR (Christi) was very nice. 

She initially said the normal offer was $299. Since I was a good customer for the last 6 years, I could get $99. I mentioned that some friends had got it for the $20 for shipping and handling and could I also get the same deal. She researched for a few minutes and said I could get the $19.95+tax deal. 

I then mentioned free HD or superfan. She threw in Superfan for free for this year. 

My install is due 9/29 in the AM. 

Maybe CSR Roulette is not ALWAYS required...lol.

Good luck all!


----------



## grimm

I called D* Retention today - to date, I have NOT received an upgrade offer so I was curious to see what I could get calling cold. Initial offer was for $99 to upgrade to the HR20, but after some discussion she came back with a no fee upgrade - and a 6-month credit. The only catch was she stated they (assuming she means the installer) will be picking up the old (hr10) unit. 

Is this true? Do they really take back the old box?


----------



## Anubys

grimm said:


> Is this true? Do they really take back the old box?


no...most people got to "swap" but still kept their old box...


----------



## jtcameron

(long time reader, 1st time poster...)

I just followed the instructions from post 251 of this thread. The rep was *extremely* helpful and kept giving me more and more with very little pressure applied. He even added stuff I wasn't asking for. I think my commitment was just about up, and have been paying with auto-pay for several years while subscribing to HBO, NFL/SF and MLBIE. 

Final deal was (i even verified on my account online that it was done):

-Charge $19.95 + $1.56 tax for shipping HR 20
-Install box & 5lnb dish, and re-locate my 10-250 this Friday 9/7 between 8am-12pm
-6 months free HBO
-6 months free Showtime
-6 months free Cinemax
-3 months free Stars
-12 month $10 credit
-Free NFL Superfan

bottom line is i'm being paid substantially to stay with D*, which i am *more* than happy to do. 

just be nice and try to connect with the rep about something and they will go a long way to keep you happy

:up: :up:


----------



## Jebberwocky!

had my three units installed this morning and all was well, except for one of the three overheating and shutting down but they had extras in the truck and they swapped it out Jonny on the spot.

I managed to watch my final recording (season finale of Numbers  ) about a half hour before they showed up.

Time to put the 10-250's up for sale on fleabay.


----------



## Ein

grimm said:


> I called D* Retention today - to date, I have NOT received an upgrade offer so I was curious to see what I could get calling cold. Initial offer was for $99 to upgrade to the HR20, but after some discussion she came back with a no fee upgrade - and a 6-month credit. The only catch was she stated they (assuming she means the installer) will be picking up the old (hr10) unit.
> 
> Is this true? Do they really take back the old box?


I called them today and asked for an upgrade their first response was free. I wasn't told about them getting the Tivo back. But, in my installation detail "Swap ReplaceImplied DVR IRD" was listed.


----------



## Ein

jtcameron said:


> (long time reader, 1st time poster...)
> 
> I just followed the instructions from post 251 of this thread. The rep was *extremely* helpful and kept giving me more and more with very little pressure applied. He even added stuff I wasn't asking for. I think my commitment was just about up, and have been paying with auto-pay for several years while subscribing to HBO, NFL/SF and MLBIE.
> 
> Final deal was (i even verified on my account online that it was done):
> 
> -Charge $19.95 + $1.56 tax for shipping HR 20
> -Install box & 5lnb dish, and re-locate my 10-250 this Friday 9/7 between 8am-12pm
> -6 months free HBO
> -6 months free Showtime
> -6 months free Cinemax
> -3 months free Stars
> -12 month $10 credit
> -Free NFL Superfan
> 
> bottom line is i'm being paid substantially to stay with D*, which i am *more* than happy to do.
> 
> just be nice and try to connect with the rep about something and they will go a long way to keep you happy
> 
> :up: :up:


The bigger your monthly bill, the better the deal you'll get. Don't worry they wouldn't go out business.


----------



## milominderbinder

Ein said:


> I called them today and asked for an upgrade their first response was free. I wasn't told about them getting the Tivo back. But, in my installation detail "Swap ReplaceImplied DVR IRD" was listed.


Call them back and make sure that you get to keep the HR10. Unless the HR10 was leased they should let you keep it.

Also, the HR10's that have sold so far today have averaged about $130:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=DIRECTV+HR10&category0=

That is down from an average of $200 the first week of August. Right now you can still sell at a decent price if you want. Or just keep it and have the best of both worlds.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

jtcameron said:


> ...I just followed the instructions from post 251 of this thread...
> 
> Final deal was (i even verified on my account online that it was done):
> -Charge $19.95 + $1.56 tax for shipping HR 20
> -Install box & 5lnb dish, and re-locate my 10-250 this Friday 9/7 between 8am-12pm
> -6 months free HBO
> -6 months free Showtime
> -6 months free Cinemax
> -3 months free Stars
> -12 month $10 credit
> -Free NFL Superfan...


First, that is just amazing. Quiet, calm persistance. You my friend are the king of negotiators!

EDIT:
So many of us kept our TiVos. In your case, keep your TiVo for MPEG2 HD as long as you can but always for OTA and SD. Get a new receiver for $19 for HD and $120 in programming credits. If you were going to stay with DIRECTV anyway, that covers the cost of the $4.99 mirror/lease fee for 24 months as well.

You can have the best of both worlds. Free is good.

- Craig


----------



## jtcameron

Ein said:


> I called them today and asked for an upgrade their first response was free. I wasn't told about them getting the Tivo back. But, in my installation detail "Swap ReplaceImplied DVR IRD" was listed.





milominderbinder said:


> Call them back and make sure that you get to keep the HR10. Unless the HR10 was leased they should let you keep it.
> 
> - Craig


the 1st offer i actually got was the free upgrade along with some programming credits. when i asked him specifically to verify that i would still keep my (owned) 10-250, he said no, it's a swap. when i told him that wouldn't work for me (and that i paid about $400 a couple years back) , he came back with the $19.95 for s&h offer, along with all the other credits.

seems like if they offer you the free upgrade, they expect to take the unit. just make sure you ask the question, and push for keeping it. you may pay for the s&h, but you should be able to get so much more in return.


----------



## aus

So you can use the Series 3 HD-TiVO with cable cards with FIOS? or did you switch to cable?



andrewket said:


> I just switched to FIOS. I tried their DVR for all of 4 days before I went out and picked up 3 Tivo HDs and picked up some cable cards. It works pretty well. Of course this was within 1-2 days of DTV announcing new software for the HR10-250. I just can't be without Tivo, nothing else compares. And the 30mbps/5mbps Internet is just insane for at home connectivity.
> 
> Sorry DTV, you lost a 5+ year, $150/month subscriber by dropping Tivo.
> 
> Is my old gear worth anything? Two series 1, Two series 2, and an HR10-250, all upgraded. I forgot exactly to what - it was the maximum the linux kernel on there would support at the time.
> 
> Andrew


----------



## HDTV_Duffus

grimm said:


> I called D* Retention today - to date, I have NOT received an upgrade offer so I was curious to see what I could get calling cold. Initial offer was for $99 to upgrade to the HR20, but after some discussion she came back with a no fee upgrade - and a 6-month credit. The only catch was she stated they (assuming she means the installer) will be picking up the old (hr10) unit.
> 
> Is this true? Do they really take back the old box?


I was told by one of the out-sourcers (Convergys) when I called to upgrade that I had to return my 2 owned units, no exception. I had been promised the new HR20 for $99 with NO CONTRACT some time back, but now they refuse to honor that offer even though the notes are still on my account!

After over an hour on the phone with 3 different levels of support, I asked for an upper level supervisor call back. The call back also said I had to return my 2 units. A final call to D* with "cancel my service" at the prompt got me to Retention, which said you can keep the units!

Great customer service!!!!


----------



## rlowe

Well, I just called them back to clarify that I will be keeping my current owned hardware. They said "Sure, you can keep those, but the new boxes will be leased." I will be interested in seeing if the installer has the same instructions.


----------



## joelq

rlowe said:


> Well, I just called them back to clarify that I will be keeping my current owned hardware. They said "Sure, you can keep those, but the new boxes will be leased." I will be interested in seeing if the installer has the same instructions.


That's how it was for me, as well as for a friend of mine. You should be ok.


----------



## jtcameron

rlowe said:


> Well, I just called them back to clarify that I will be keeping my current owned hardware. They said "Sure, you can keep those, but the new boxes will be leased." I will be interested in seeing if the installer has the same instructions.


check your order online. mine says "Swap Relocate DVR IRD" on the order summary, and i confirmed several times with the rep that i was keeping the box and moving it. others in the thread said their order said "Swap Replace DVR IRD", which seems to be D* taking the box back.


----------



## rlowe

jtcameron said:


> check your order online. mine says "Swap Relocate DVR IRD" on the order summary


That is what mine says as well, which is why I was concerned in the first place. I own my current boxes, so will be insistant on keeping them.


----------



## jtcameron

rlowe said:


> That is what mine says as well, which is why I was concerned in the first place. I own my current boxes, so will be insistant on keeping them.


yeah the word 'swap' is disconcerting, but the 'relocate' made me feel better than the 'replace'.


----------



## XMan__007

I would like to get some HR21's when they come out which is soon but don't want to lease. Some say leasing isn't a big deal and that would be fine if they didn't make it a rule to charge you $300 plus a two year commitment which is their standard policy for a HD PVR. If I pay anything for a box plus a lease/mirror fee it is my box not DTV's. I've been offered a free HDR20 but I don't want to lease and I certainly do not want a 2 year commitment. If I pay the $300 and have them charge me the $200 activation fee is the box mine or do they still think it's theirs?

It really sucks that DTV has monopolized their system I much preferred the old days were I could buy a RCA, Sony, or Phillips receiver and wasn't stuck with a slow crappy Hughes, I realize that Phillips and Hughes are basically the same. I understand why they are going to MPEG4 but it sure screws you for old boxes that work fine otherwise. This will be the third time I've had to upgrade my whole system since I started many years ago when the old round dish was the bomb.


----------



## mikehome

jtcameron said:


> yeah the word 'swap' is disconcerting, but the 'relocate' made me feel better than the 'replace'.


My Order as well. I confirmed with CSR that I was retaining my 10-250 and he "noted my account" and stated no problem.

I didn't fair as well on free stuff as some of your but managed to get

(2) HR 20 's for $19.99...... 1 for free and 1 for Shipping ( like they ship) and 3 months free of Cinemax. I'm sure I was limited to freebies as I'm currently getting $10 HD service credit for 6 months and 6 months of Showtime free.

AND btw..... It did take 3 CSR's before I got that deal. You can tell the expeirence level of the CSR as soon as you ask the first question.... and they do note the account. The second CSR stated that the first CSR offered you 1 free drv only but I can offer you one for $300. LOL I deserved that I suppose I told him why would I take one for 300$ when I was just offered it for free.

The 3rd gave me (2) for the 19.99.

Confirmed order on web.

Finally someone mentioned that they don't harass DT* for free stuff because thats stealing. I always just call and ask if they have any free offers for exisiting customers and they are always glad to offer monthly credits or free programming. How can that be so wrong,


----------



## barry728

andrewket said:


> I just switched to FIOS. I tried their DVR for all of 4 days before I went out and picked up 3 Tivo HDs and picked up some cable cards. It works pretty well. Of course this was within 1-2 days of DTV announcing new software for the HR10-250. I just can't be without Tivo, nothing else compares. And the 30mbps/5mbps Internet is just insane for at home connectivity.
> 
> Sorry DTV, you lost a 5+ year, $150/month subscriber by dropping Tivo.
> 
> Is my old gear worth anything? Two series 1, Two series 2, and an HR10-250, all upgraded. I forgot exactly to what - it was the maximum the linux kernel on there would support at the time.
> 
> Andrew


I don't think I will be taking directv's free upgrade. I'll keep the HR10-250 and not have the additional HD channels. They are forcing an old customer to look at alternatives.


----------



## xtc

Are they upgrading everyone to the HR20-100 or HR20-700? I hope I can get the HR20-100, whats the best way to do that?


----------



## eddieras99

barry728 said:


> I don't think I will be taking directv's free upgrade. I'll keep the HR10-250 and not have the additional HD channels. They are forcing an old customer to look at alternatives.


same here - i've been with the for 9 years, premiere package and nhl centre ice-- but Dish is not looking so great either!


----------



## pendragn

xtc said:


> Are they upgrading everyone to the HR20-100 or HR20-700? I hope I can get the HR20-100, whats the best way to do that?


I got a -700. I think it all comes down to what the installer you get has on hand. My installer didn't even know there were two models.

tk


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## Krookut

I finally got the $99 offer with $19.95 installation, keep my HR10, HR20 will be leased, after calling to cancel. But it still bugs me that I'm paying $99 to lease a piece of equipment.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Krookut said:


> I finally got the $99 offer with $19.95 installation, keep my HR10, HR20 will be leased, after calling to cancel. But it still bugs me that I'm paying $99 to lease a piece of equipment.


you should have kept trying


----------



## jbuch

I got the $99 deal plus shipping but a $10 credit for the next 6 months. The installer didn't show the first time. I got a phone call from the installers saying that two tech's were sick. I emailed DirecTV about this and they gave me an instant credit of $100.01 on my account for the trouble.


----------



## Krookut

Jebberwocky! said:


> you should have kept trying


I was afraid they would go ahead and cancel service if I pressed too hard, which I really didn't want to do.


----------



## videoi

Hi All -

I'm about to pull the trigger on the HR20 box, but have a question that I haven't seen addressed.

I've upgraded my HR10-250 (1TB of storage), and as a result have a number of programs that are sitting on the unit that haven't been watched yet. 

Is there any way (other than hooking something up to the 'video out' and capturing) to copy the programs off of the unit so they can be watched? Alternatively, if I turn off that unit, will I still be able to watch the programs? (I tried pulling the access card, and got a persistent 'please insert access card' message' across the screen). 

Finally, if I add an external eSata drive to the HR20, does that storage *augment* the internal storage, or completely replace it?

Thanks!

Ira


----------



## ayrton911

videoi said:


> Hi All -
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger on the HR20 box, but have a question that I haven't seen addressed.
> 
> I've upgraded my HR10-250 (1TB of storage), and as a result have a number of programs that are sitting on the unit that haven't been watched yet.
> 
> Is there any way (other than hooking something up to the 'video out' and capturing) to copy the programs off of the unit so they can be watched? Alternatively, if I turn off that unit, will I still be able to watch the programs? (I tried pulling the access card, and got a persistent 'please insert access card' message' across the screen).
> 
> Finally, if I add an external eSata drive to the HR20, does that storage *augment* the internal storage, or completely replace it?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ira


Yes, you can still watch them. Pull the access card again, to see what I mean. About 5 minutes into the show, the insert card goes away, until you go back to the now playing list again. So if you could just start the show, pause it for a few minutes or put up with the banner a few minutes, it will go away.

I have shows stuck on a broken HR10-250 that I do this with cause it doesn't read any access cards. Reader went out.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

videoi said:


> Finally, if I add an external eSata drive to the HR20, does that storage *augment* the internal storage, or completely replace it?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Ira


Replaces - one or the other


----------



## XMan__007

I won't bend over and take it up the back side so they better let me buy my gear out right or if I'm leasing there will be zero down for all my new boxes, I can see a shipping charge though of course. The question still is will they let me buy my equipment out right? No one seems to have the answer here. It might be time to look at a DreamBox 8000HD and go the FTA route as Dish is joke too.


----------



## ddruker

3 HR20's, a new dish, and a new multiswitch all installed today. All working. No charge, and I just checked with DTV - all listed as I own them and no new commitment. 

Only bummer is that one of my rooms only has two cables running to it, so no more OTA reception in that room since you can no longer diplex OTA and satellite over one wire.


----------



## Squeak

Just got off the phone with my one HR10 replaced for the $19.95 S/H fee. Asked for one to replace my SAT-T60 as well, and said it would be full price ($299), but they would give me $180 in credits.

Passed on the second one, and instead have the one for $20, plus $60 in credits.

So, not great, but good enough to make it worth my while.


----------



## RS4

XMan__007 said:


> I won't bend over and take it up the back side so they better let me buy my gear out right or if I'm leasing there will be zero down for all my new boxes, I can see a shipping charge though of course. The question still is will they let me buy my equipment out right? No one seems to have the answer here. It might be time to look at a DreamBox 8000HD and go the FTA route as Dish is joke too.


They will let you buy the box. They want $799 for it. I've read on the investor calls that it costs them around $400 which they think it will soon be down to $300, so this is a huge ripoff to me. They want me to pay them $300 for a box and then give it back to them in 2 years? Like you said, the only way to even consider it is to get it free and put up with the 2 year commitment. You can see that it is more important to them to lock us in.


----------



## mikehome

ddruker said:


> 3 HR20's, a new dish, and a new multiswitch all installed today. All working. No charge, and I just checked with DTV - all listed as I own them and no new commitment.
> 
> Only bummer is that one of my rooms only has two cables running to it, so no more OTA reception in that room since you can no longer diplex OTA and satellite over one wire.


No commitment.............righttttttttttttttttttttttttt.. Try to cancel b4 2 yrs and see how the commitment thing works.


----------



## XMan__007

Thanks RS4 that's exactually what I needed to know so if I stay with DTV they will have to give me what I need to upgrade at no cost or I walk.

Again thanks much...


----------



## NatasNJ

The more I think about it the more I am about to cancel my order and go to Fios. If one of these services had Howard TV it would make my choice easier. But I hear nothing but great things about FIOS and their HD lineup is better than Directv today and even with the new directv channels it will still be comparable. Factor in Verizon SHOULD add new channels as they come out I can't see it being a bad choice. Also Verizon allows me to stick with Tivo if I so wish. That last one I think pushes me over the edge. Just posting here to rant. Ugh. I hate making decisions.


----------



## RS4

NatasNJ said:


> The more I think about it the more I am about to cancel my order and go to Fios. If one of these services had Howard TV it would make my choice easier. But I hear nothing but great things about FIOS and their HD lineup is better than Directv today and even with the new directv channels it will still be comparable. Factor in Verizon SHOULD add new channels as they come out I can't see it being a bad choice. Also Verizon allows me to stick with Tivo if I so wish. That last one I think pushes me over the edge. Just posting here to rant. Ugh. I hate making decisions.


FIOS and Tivo definitely give you more options as far as getting video from other internet sources. And I would guess that FIOS would eventually offer most or all of the same things that DirecTV does. If you aren't locked into the sports programming, I think FIOS is the best alternative right now. Plus you aren't locked in with a 2-year commitment like you are with DirecTV. You could always put your DirecTV subscription on hold while you try out FIOS, and then if you didn't like it, you could resume with DirecTV.


----------



## NatasNJ

RS4 said:


> FIOS and Tivo definitely give you more options as far as getting video from other internet sources. And I would guess that FIOS would eventually offer most or all of the same things that DirecTV does. If you aren't locked into the sports programming, I think FIOS is the best alternative right now. Plus you aren't locked in with a 2-year commitment like you are with DirecTV. You could always put your DirecTV subscription on hold while you try out FIOS, and then if you didn't like it, you could resume with DirecTV.


That might be a good idea. Suspend service instead of cancelling. Gives me option to go back. Interesting. I am hoping to go "view" FIOS at a local home theater shop and if I like what I see I may pull the trigger. I just wish Verizon would announce future HD offerings. But from what I read they just DROP them on their customers with little or NO notice.


----------



## milominderbinder

Squeak said:


> Just got off the phone with my one HR10 replaced for the $19.95 S/H fee. Asked for one to replace my SAT-T60 as well, and said it would be full price ($299), but they would give me $180 in credits...


Squeak,

These steps are working for others. I was offered an HR20 for my Sony SAT-T60 on Friday. Here are the steps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5461992&&#post5461992

- Craig


----------



## utvnut

2nd and 3rd free HR20s installed today after 6 month try out on 1st free one. Kept the HR10-250's, we may watch the remaining shows and e-bay them or maybe keep them....
Ready for the new channels, both units are 700s and have no problems.


----------



## unclejon

Just moved to my new house and I had DTV come to install a new dish and bring an HR-20 (I got the $19.95 deal after a bunch of complaints, and kept my HR-10 as well). One of the installers said he wanted to upgrade to an HR-20, but DTV wanted him to pay the $299 for it -- I guess even installers get no love


----------



## LlamaLarry

Curse you guys!  This thread is making my UMF for the new boxes. I really want to wait for SWM, but you guys are making it hard.
[jedi]These are not the boxes you are looking for...[/jedi]


----------



## Maik

NatasNJ said:


> The more I think about it the more I am about to cancel my order and go to Fios. If one of these services had Howard TV it would make my choice easier. But I hear nothing but great things about FIOS and their HD lineup is better than Directv today and even with the new directv channels it will still be comparable. Factor in Verizon SHOULD add new channels as they come out I can't see it being a bad choice. Also Verizon allows me to stick with Tivo if I so wish. That last one I think pushes me over the edge. Just posting here to rant. Ugh. I hate making decisions.


Problem with FIOS is that the benefit stays outside your house unless your house is also wired with FIOS. Most houses are wired with copper, so the benefit never reaches the TV. PQ will be better than cable though, as there won't be any bandwidth issue.


----------



## annenoe

ebonovic said:


> Swanni at TVPredictions has just posted a new article:
> http://www.tvpredictions.com/tivoupgrade080307.htm
> 
> Major points:
> 1) Even with the announced software update, the HR10-250 will not be compatible with the new channels. Confirmed by DirecTV.
> 2) Existing Channels WILL BE eventually converted to MPEG-4
> 3) $99 offer for HR20, and you can keep the HR10-250 (and have it moved to a new spot in the house)
> 
> My comments about #3:
> -) It will probably also include the dish upgrade
> -) If you ask nicely, I bet you could possible do a little better on the first HR20.


Perfect timing. Our remodel is almost done which includes a new flat screen HD TV. I was hoping I'd be able to get an HR20 and keep my HR10.


----------



## newsposter

you know you are ill when you dream you have a work order in front of you that says SWM on it


----------



## wgeclipse

Do you guys think this will work getting two dishes? My wiring on my two story house prevented me from using just one dish. Currently looking to upgrade 2 HR10-250s and a HR10-80 (I think). Any problems with new dish and HR10-250s or older HDVR2?


----------



## milominderbinder

wgeclipse said:


> Do you guys think this will work getting two dishes? My wiring on my two story house prevented me from using just one dish. Currently looking to upgrade 2 HR10-250s and a HR10-80 (I think). Any problems with new dish and HR10-250s or older HDVR2?


Others do have 2 dishes but it is rarely needed. Give them a call. What do you have to lose?

Click here for the upgrade tips:

Getting a Good Deal on an HR20

I called back to ask about replacing my SAT-T60 with an HR20 at the $19. I can keep the T60 and move it to another room and they will throw in HD, Showtime, and Starz.

They were clear it was a 2 year extension but where am I going? I want the HD channels.

- Craig


----------



## alleybj

I was quite surprised at the lack of love I got from D when I called about having my three HR10-250's upgraded; they agreed to do one for 19.95, plus dish install, but refused to cut me a deal on the other two; I have the replacement plan, so I figure I'll be getting them for free soon enough anyway, but if not for that, I'd seriously be considering taking my 12 year, $150 per month income stream somewhere else; after that, I find myself actually hoping they do go under, and I used to be extremely loyal!


----------



## SpankyInChicago

I got 3x HR20s, new dish, new multiswitch, and get to keep my 3x HR10-250s (is anbody being asked to give them back?). $297 charge on my bil. $150 immediate credit on my bill. $10 monthly credit for 12 months. 6 months free HBO. That about makes it free for me. Plus they gave me 6 months free Showtime, 6 months free Cinemax, 3 months free Starz. He also "grandfathered" me in on the HD fee so I will never pay an HD monthly fee. That is the only thing that sounds fishy to me as I don't know how they can do that. And I confirmed that I still am grandfathered on my original lifetime Tivo so I pay no DVR fee.

Pretty happy. Obviously have the new two year commitment.

Plan on keeping my HR10-250s up and running until they die.


----------



## cbarker

OK, this is interesting... 

I called DTV today and asked if my $999 HR10-250 Hi-Def Series 2 Tivo DVR was going to be obsolete once the new satellite was turned up. The CSR initially said that there was a $99 upgrade but had to check on that. She put me on hold and came back and said there was actually a FREE upgrade that required an installer visit. 

I asked her if that was a swap up to the H20-700 DVR or would the upgrade result in the Tivo operating system remaining in use. I asked this question a couple of times to check... 

She assured me that the Tivo would still be in place and that no new DVR would be installed. This makes sense given that Tivo and DTV are sending messages out (got a postcard today) that they were sending an upgrade out in early 2008 to enhance the TIVO/DirecTV combination unit. Why would they push an upgrade if the units wont work with their HD system... 

Install happens Friday. I am hoping that when its done, I will have access to the new MPEG4 satellite channels when they come up this month (per the rep). 

Will let everyone know what happens!


----------



## Howie

You won't be able to get the mpg4 feeds without the HR20 (a DVR) or the H20 (receiver only). The CSR did not know what she was talking about, or you did not understand her. Sorry.


----------



## newsposter

i need to dig up my old thread about stupid stuff CSRs say...must be in archives


----------



## milominderbinder

cbarker said:


> ... actually a FREE upgrade that required an installer visit.
> 
> ...She assured me that the TiVo would still be in place...
> 
> This makes sense given that TiVo and DTV are sending messages out (got a postcard today) that they were sending an upgrade out in early 2008 to enhance the TIVO/DirecTV combination unit.
> 
> ...Will let everyone know what happens!


Chris,

No need to wait until Friday. Click here now:

https://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/mydirectv/account/myAccountViewOrders.jsp?type=view

then click your order and you will most likely find these words:

DIRECTV HD DVR (Expanded HD Prog. Capable)

That's the new HR20 you are getting. And your old TiVo will still be in place along side it just like she said.

TiVo is adding two features in 2008. I don't remember what they are but it is not HD. Real-time MPEG4 to MPG2 transcoding requires hardware that can converting just over 1MB per second. The HR10 lacks the horsepower.

Sorry. There is something we need to tell you about Easter but it can wait... 

- Craig


----------



## bootsy

I just called and got the HR20 for 19.95. I asked them if there were any free offers for programming and she came back with 6 months of free HBO and Showtime. Not being pushy i asked if there were any deals for superfan and she came back right away and said i could get that free also. I was more than happy with my call....


----------



## TreyS

bootsy said:


> I just called and got the HR20 for 19.95. I asked them if there were any free offers for programming and she came back with 6 months of free HBO and Showtime. Not being pushy i asked if there were any deals for superfan and she came back right away and said i could get that free also. I was more than happy with my call....


Doh! I should have read past post 251 before I called. I got the 19.99 deal for the HR20-700, 3 mos free HD, 3 mos free HBO, 6x8 multiswitch and new dish.

Not bad but I could have pushed for more. 

Install is tomorrow morning...w00t!


----------



## Maik

There seems to be no consistancy. I called retention and got two HR20's totally free, but was told I would have to pay $99 (no shipping) for the third. When I pushed, I was told that I could terminate my service if I wanted.


----------



## bootsy

Maik said:


> There seems to be no consistancy. I called retention and got two HR20's totally free, but was told I would have to pay $99 (no shipping) for the third. When I pushed, I was told that I could terminate my service if I wanted.


I'm just curious. Where you trying to replace one or multiple units. I'm not trying to single you out on this, but i don't think they are obligated to just give out units for free. I just wanted my unit upgraded for free b/c i paid about $500 for it not to long ago. I never pushed for anything else, i just asked if they had anything else to offer me. 
Again, no disrespect intended, i'm just curious...


----------



## Anubys

bootsy said:


> I'm just curious. Where you trying to replace one or multiple units. I'm not trying to single you out on this, but i don't think they are obligated to just give out units for free. I just wanted my unit upgraded for free b/c i paid about $500 for it not to long ago. I never pushed for anything else, i just asked if they had anything else to offer me.
> Again, no disrespect intended, i'm just curious...


given that their top management made a promise to investors and customers that we would be upgraded to mpeg4 units at little or no cost, I'd say they are obligated to keep their promise...

to make their customers go through CSR roulette just to get what they were promised is total BS and we have a right to be upset...


----------



## bootsy

Anubys said:


> given that their top management made a promise to investors and customers that we would be upgraded to mpeg4 units at little or no cost, I'd say they are obligated to keep their promise...
> 
> to make their customers go through CSR roulette just to get what they were promised is total BS and we have a right to be upset...


I agree with that, i'm not arguing that. I'm just talking about multiple units. I'm not trying to start anything here. If you paid for 3 units, you should get 3 units free. If you paid for one unit but ask for 2 extra units for free is what i'm trying to get at. That's all....


----------



## Anubys

bootsy said:


> I agree with that, i'm not arguing that. I'm just talking about multiple units. I'm not trying to start anything here. If you paid for 3 units, you should get 3 units free. If you paid for one unit but ask for 2 extra units for free is what i'm trying to get at. That's all....


no worries...I was just pointing out something you might not know...but I totally agree with you that what we are talking about is a free SWAP...not free units...

of course, D* doesn't actually swap (they leave the HR10 with you anyway)


----------



## bootsy

Anubys said:


> to make their customers go through CSR roulette just to get what they were promised is total BS and we have a right to be upset...


It's funny you say that, b/c i was just talking to another guy at work about that very same thing. I think it's a pain in the ass that you would have to go through retention just to get a better deal. I'm sure you agree with me there...


----------



## milominderbinder

In past years as NFL ST begins, DIRECTV gets swamped with orders has pulled back from some promotions so as not to make the backlog any worse.

Are they still doing the $19 deals on the HR20s?

- Craig


----------



## xtc

I had a weird call with Retention. He said that I can get the HR20 for Free + *NO NEW COMMITMENT*, but they would have to take the HR10-250 away from me. They said I would now Own the new HR20, not Lease it. He said there is no way they would let me keep the HR10-250 plus get the HR20 for Free - If I were to keep the HR10-250, the only way to get the HR20 would be to pay $299 for it. So I said that I'm not interested.

Very Weird. Should I just call Retention again and see if the person I get on the line will be able to get the HR20 to me for Free while Keeping the HR10-250? How long do you guys usually wait in between Calls to retention to see if you can get a better deal? 1 day?


----------



## Anubys

milominderbinder said:


> In past years as NFL ST begins, DIRECTV gets swamped with orders has pulled back from some promotions so as not to make the backlog any worse.
> 
> Are they still doing the $19 deals on the HR20s?
> 
> - Craig


yes they are...you just have to be persistent...


----------



## donsullivan

As part of a movers deal, they just offered me 2-HR20's for a total of $99.00. No mention at all of committment change (probably because I'm making that as part of the move anyway) or return of the HR10's.

edit: corrected model #'s


----------



## milominderbinder

donsullivan said:


> As part of a movers deal, they just offered me 2-HR10's for a total of $99.00. No mention at all of commitment change (probably because I'm making that as part of the move anyway) or return of the HR10's.


I hope that you mean HR20's?

Here are some tips compiled from other's experiences:

Getting a Good Deal on an HR20

But that is a good deal already...

- Craig


----------



## rld1015

Our main tv is on an inside wall. Only way to access is from the attic. Will they do that? Currently use just one rg6.
Can I insist on no mounts on my roof shingles? Not sure where they can mount to pick up all sats. Only use 1 sat now. Trees could pose a problem.
Thanks for any info.
Dick


----------



## dswallow

rld1015 said:


> Our main tv is on an inside wall. Only way to access is from the attic. Will they do that? Currently use just one rg6.
> Can I insist on no mounts on my roof shingles? Not sure where they can mount to pick up all sats. Only use 1 sat now. Trees could pose a problem.
> Thanks for any info.


There's a very basic install that DirecTV pays for. If you want more, you'll have to arrange it either with the installer that comes out or with one of your own choosing. Usually there'll be a charge per wall-fish, though some installers simply charge per hour. If you need the dish on your roof because there's no other suitable location, I'd suggest you look at the Commdeck product (www.commdeck.com) (and the associated clips for the extra dish supports). While they of course have to mount through your roof, once that's done, you can readily replace the dish whenever needed without damaging your roof or worrying about leaving holes where screws previously were. Again, though, this is something you'd need to work out with the isntaller; it's certainly not going to be a standard install nor is it likely the installer would have this equipment on hand without advance arrangements.

There is a new device being tested that'll allow multiple receivers to be fed over a single coax cable. It's what DirecTV calls the SWM or Single Wire Module. But I don't believe it's available through normal channels yet, but you certainly could try to ask DirecTV about it.


----------



## alwayscool

I love my TIVO, however I want to try the new HR20 because of all the new HD channels comming out, so I called retention and got the HR20 for free ($19.00 shipping) and 6 months of HD for free also. I got to keep my two HR10-250's, but the new HR20 is leased with a new 2 year commitment. I also told them I have the ability to run 16 TV's from two 8-way multiswitches, so I told him to tell the installer to bring a Zinwell WB616 and a WB68 multiswitches. Sept 20 they are comming to install the new dish and switches with the HR20. I'll let all of you know how I like it.

Also the HR20 has the ability to be connected to my network and play mp3's off my PC and display pictures too. Comming soon will be VOD (Video On Demand).


----------



## kashish

99 bucks huh?I just upgraded my dish to HD recently,bought a hr10 250 off ebay around the same time and got a hr 20 in my frontroom so I wonder if I would just trade in my hr10 or what?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Got home last night and 2 of my 3 new hd20's were toast - I had them stacked on each other and man did they get hot. THis problem was due to my error - I should not have stacked them - there is little room between the two units and they both overheated.

I called and when asked I said Cancel and was connected right through to retention.

Discovered as I kind of already knew that I had a receiver on the account that I wasn't using - prob for a year. So I've wasted x12 the add'l receiver. They ordered up two replacements to be delivered on Monday and for my trouble they are giving me $10/off for 12 months, no DVR fee for 12 months and free Movies (all premium movie channels) for 3 months.

I was pretty happy although now I'm thinking I should get a new audio/video rack to eliminate the need to stack then that led to a discussion with my wife on whether or not we should just get a new TV (60 inch plasma) and of course a new audio receiver and speakers.


----------



## Sir_winealot

Jebberwocky! said:


> They ordered up two replacements to be delivered on Monday and for my trouble they are giving me $10/off for 12 months, no DVR fee for 12 months and free Movies (all premium movie channels) for 3 months.
> 
> I was pretty happy although now I'm thinking I should get a new audio/video rack to eliminate the need to stack then that led to a discussion with my wife on whether or not we should just get a new TV (60 inch plasma) and of course a new audio receiver and speakers.


So I'm guessing you didn't tell them that the 2 units overheating were your fault?


----------



## newsposter

Jebberwocky! said:


> THis problem was due to my error - I should not have stacked them -


you stacked with no other barrier?  (shakes head). Medicine bottle lids work great. Or I've even used cedar blocks that you are supposed to put in your closet (look almost stylish lol ). I'm sure others have ideas but as you learned you really must ventilate.


----------



## charlieg

newsposter said:


> you stacked with no other barrier?  (shakes head). Medicine bottle lids work great. Or I've even used cedar blocks that you are supposed to put in your closet (look almost stylish lol ). I'm sure others have ideas but as you learned you really must ventilate.


 Yes, I use soda bottle caps. They are the perfect size but they do tend to slide about a bit (not really an issue since once it's set up, I usually don't have to fiddle much with it). Adding a laptop cooler on top also helps things out quite a bit.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Sir_winealot said:


> So I'm guessing you didn't tell them that the 2 units overheating were your fault?


I was honest and told her it was probably my fault - My wife was amazed at how I worked the call and what she gave me in return (love speakerphones)

I did have bottlecaps raising the second unit up a little but these units run hotter than the 10-250's did. I'm going to a rack where there is pleanty of space to spare.


----------



## Sir_winealot

Jebberwocky! said:


> I was honest and told her it was probably my fault - My wife was amazed at how I worked the call and what she gave me in return (love speakerphones)


 "Honest" would have been if you had told them it was _definitely_ your fault  !



> They ordered up two replacements to be delivered on Monday and for my trouble they are giving me $10/off for 12 months, no DVR fee for 12 months and free Movies (all premium movie channels) for 3 months.


Sounds like you indeed 'worked the call.' You got all these credits for a problem that you told them you "probably caused?"

Most people have to put up a stink to get _anything _ at all ....you got 3 different sets of credits _with_ your replacement units cuz you caused them to overheat?

Must've been a CSR on valium.


----------



## DarkAudit

charlieg said:


> Yes, I use soda bottle caps. They are the perfect size but they do tend to slide about a bit (not really an issue since once it's set up, I usually don't have to fiddle much with it). Adding a laptop cooler on top also helps things out quite a bit.


I couldn't dare try that since I've got three kittens that like to play and explore in and around the entertainment center.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Sir_winealot said:


> Sounds like you indeed 'worked the call.' You got all these credits for a problem that you told them you "probably caused?"
> 
> Most people have to put up a stink to get _anything _ at all ....you got 3 different sets of credits _with_ your replacement units cuz you caused them to overheat?
> 
> Must've been a CSR on valium.


When I was a little younger I always got out of tickets by working the cop - used to really anger my wife who always got ticket no matter what.

It's a gift


----------



## Maik

bootsy said:


> I'm just curious. Where you trying to replace one or multiple units. I'm not trying to single you out on this, but i don't think they are obligated to just give out units for free. I just wanted my unit upgraded for free b/c i paid about $500 for it not to long ago. I never pushed for anything else, i just asked if they had anything else to offer me.
> Again, no disrespect intended, i'm just curious...


No disrespect taken. I bought my first HR10-250 early on and paid $1,000 for it. The second one was a year later and I paid $700. The third was about 6 months ago and I paid approximately $500. No, they are certainly not obligated to give me anything, but then again I am also not obligated to use their service. I was willing to pay for the HR10-250's because there was no alternative at the time and the boxes were my property. The notion of paying a significant sum up front for a "leased" unit goes against my grain so I simply negotiated with them. In a negotiation, if you simply "ask" for something, you will usually get nothing.


----------



## larryforehand

What are you guys saying to get Free hr20's or free w/ $20 shipping/


----------



## rjnerd

larryforehand said:


> What are you guys saying to get Free hr20's or free w/ $20 shipping/


Most report the word "Cancel", followed by "Comcast" or "FIOS" to be fairly effective.


----------



## Maik

larryforehand said:


> What are you guys saying to get Free hr20's or free w/ $20 shipping/


The truth. 
That I have been paying upwards of $135 per month for more than 10 years and that there are alternatives available today.


----------



## RBA

I just got the free HR20 with free install to replace my HD Tivo. The installer will come out Wednesday. The order says replace DVR (nothing about HD Tivo). So I'm going to point to my SD DVR in the spare bedroom and tell the installer to take that one. Hope it workds.


----------



## raiderguy8

larryforehand said:


> What are you guys saying to get Free hr20's or free w/ $20 shipping/


I already have one HR-20 that I got for $50 last November. I made two calls yesterday to try and upgrade my Tivo HD to the HR-20 with the intention of keeping the Tivo and running them both on the same TV. The first time I called I forgot to go to the retention department and got through to a regular CSR. She offered me an upgrade for $299. I told her I would play CSR roulette and try again. I called back later last night and said cancel service at the voice prompt. Talked to a nice young man named Steven and asked him what deals they had for existing customers. He asked if I was interested in an equipment upgrade. I said that actually was why I had called and he said he would see what he could offer. He said that my history showed that I was an excellent customer (he confirmed later that the "A List" was no longer being used) since I have been a customer for 7 years and get NFLST, etc etc, that he could give me an upgrade for $99. Without hesitation I said, "C'mon, I think you can do better than that, I know of others getting them for free + shipping." I said this in a slightly amusing tone like you would use with your buddies. He put me on hold and came back and said that, yes, he could give it to me for shipping only. I let him know I was appreciative and was always polite and never threatened to cancel or anything. I did ask to make sure they would leave the HD Tivo and he said it was leased and they would take it away with them. I told him that I had purchased it for $500 with a $200 credit in April 2006. He did see that in my history and said that I would be keeping it. He asked if there was anything else he could do for me and I said unless he was giving away free Superfan I was done. He said he wasn't able to do that and I didn't complain since I just got the free equipment and I already have HBO for $2 a month and free Showtime. Another good transaction with DirecTV.


----------



## rld1015

The deals being received on upgrades looks pretty good to me. We recently moved but I have not changed my address with Direct. I did a temporary self install with my old round dish. I want to upgrade, but will the new address make any difference with the deal I get? What is their "movers connection" and would it help or hinder me? Need advice!
Thanks for any help.


----------



## IOTP

Keep in mind, that sometimes when the installer "activates" the new receiver, they always state, "yes, this is replacing this receiver." When they do that, you will need to contact them and reactivate it when the installer leaves.

OR

Tell them that you are going to move it to another room.

AND

Be cautious when they disconnect the receiver. If it is the "master" receiver on your account, it could has irreversible damage to your account, meaning they need to move all the programming to another receiver in the house. I had it happen where all the other receivers were sent a card kill. I had to spend 2 hours on the phone getting bullets "sent" to the cards & receivers.


----------



## tmdlkwd

Help

Offer 1
Swap out Hr10 for new hd dvr
pay 19.95 and get a $10.00 off per month for a year

Offer 2
Swap out Hr10 to new hd dvr
relocate hr10 to another room
loose the $10.00 of per month ( $120.00 value )

I received this offer via a return call tonight from DTV
I emailed them b4.

Not sure if I should pursue this.
I would still like to get the $10.00 off on the 2nd offer as well


----------



## milominderbinder

larryforehand said:


> What are you guys saying to get Free hr20's or free w/ $20 shipping/


Click here for the upgrade tips:

Getting a Good Deal on an HR20

It is a compilation of what hundreds have been able to do...

- Craig


----------



## tmdlkwd

tmdlkwd said:


> Help
> 
> Offer 1
> Swap out Hr10 for new hd dvr
> pay 19.95 and get a $10.00 off per month for a year
> 
> Offer 2
> Swap out Hr10 to new hd dvr
> relocate hr10 to another room
> loose the $10.00 of per month ( $120.00 value )
> 
> I received this offer via a return call tonight from DTV
> I emailed them b4.
> 
> Not sure if I should pursue this.
> I would still like to get the $10.00 off on the 2nd offer as well


WOW

I was able to get offer 2 offer AND get the $10.00 off per month.
I called DTV and asked to s/w retention
In addition, I do NOT have to pay the $19.95 s/h
I check my order online as well
Plus, the $10.00 off per month is already on my acct

I did request the bigger multi-switch etc as well
Retention rep notated my order twice

With my current set up:

1-HR10- soon to be NEW DH DVR
2- R10- will be now, swapped out to the HR10
3- r10
4- r10
5- r10

With the above set-up, what do I need??

Should I call to get :
Zin WB616
Multi- WB68

I do have the # to confirm my order with the local DTV installer for 9-17
Thus, I can inquire to make sure I get the above

Thanks


----------



## cbridgha

I have been reading the forums on this subject, and I am close to calling for the upgrade.

Currently I have :
1) HR10-250 (Paid $800 two years ago)
2) Old RCA SD tivo

DTV member since '95
I paid for Tivo lifetime a few years ago...
This is what I don't understand fully. If I get the HR-20 unit, do I ever need to pay for a lease fee? I'm sure this has been explained - but I haven't found it.
I apologize up-front

Thanks - Chuck


----------



## RS4

cbridgha said:


> I have been reading the forums on this subject, and I am close to calling for the upgrade.
> 
> Currently I have :
> 1) HR10-250 (Paid $800 two years ago)
> 2) Old RCA SD tivo
> 
> DTV member since '95
> I paid for Tivo lifetime a few years ago...
> This is what I don't understand fully. If I get the HR-20 unit, do I ever need to pay for a lease fee? I'm sure this has been explained - but I haven't found it.
> I apologize up-front
> 
> Thanks - Chuck


Chuck, I own my HR10-250 and was told the HR20 would be leased and that I would have to sign a 2-year commitment. (I declined because I don't want to pay for a box I don't think I will like and can't test up front.) They did offer to sell it to me for $799.


----------



## milominderbinder

tmdlkwd said:


> 1-HR10- soon to be NEW DH DVR
> 2- R10- will be now, swapped out to the HR10
> 3- r10
> 4- r10
> 5- r10
> 
> With the above set-up, what do I need??


They will bring the right switch...

But now is the time to get out from under those other receivers if you can. Simple thing to say is that: "These other receivers I have won't be able to get any of the 150 channel that you have coming!" Do it this week before the other remaining 2.4 million figure out their situation.

See if they will swap out any of the others...

Here is the link again in case anyone needs it:

Getting a Good Deal on an HR20

Make sure it is the HR20 you are getting.

Good hunting!

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

cbridgha said:


> I have been reading the forums on this subject, and I am close to calling for the upgrade.
> 
> Currently I have :
> 1) HR10-250 (Paid $800 two years ago)
> 2) Old RCA SD tivo
> 
> DTV member since '95
> I paid for Tivo lifetime a few years ago...
> This is what I don't understand fully. If I get the HR-20 unit, do I ever need to pay for a lease fee? I'm sure this has been explained - but I haven't found it.
> I apologize up-front
> 
> Thanks - Chuck


The last thing you want to do is tell them how old you are. Do not make threats or tell them how much you spend.

Be nice. If you have to, tell them about competing offers. When you are negotiating, never tell the other person how important you are. The goal is to make them feel important. They can already see your screen.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

Here is that $100 coupon for anyone who has left DIRECTV and is now returning:

http://www.getdirectv.com/welcomeback.asp.

You can keep your TiVo for MPEG2 HD as long as you can but always for OTA and SD. Get a new receiver for $19 for HD and $120 in programming credits. If you were going to stay with DIRECTV anyway, that covers the cost of the $4.99 mirror/lease fee for 24 months as well.

You can have the best of both worlds.

- Craig


----------



## videoi

I followed the tips in this thread, called DirecTV, got to "retention", and after asking a few times got the following:

- Free HR20 receiver (no shipping, etc)
- Free dish upgrade
- $10/mo credit for HD programming for a year
- Additional $10/mo credit
- Free movie channels ($30/month) for 6 months

I did need to sign up for a new 2 yr commitment, but sounded like a pretty good deal - and with the discounts

Ira


----------



## cbridgha

Thanks for all the great advice. I was able to hold out for HR20 for shipping cost with free install etc.. + 6mo HD free. Probably could have held out for more.. but I'm very happy and satisfied.

Of course install is out to early Oct 8 ugh...hopefully something opens up earlier.

- Chuck


----------



## Eben

I am close to upgrading. Currently have 3 LNB dish. When that dish was installed, the installer told me that when the new sats went operational I would need a new dish and that the current location of the dish wouldn't work (on side of garage). He seemed confident that a roof mount would allow line of sight to all the sats. Before getting my hopes up and going through all the touble to arrange the upgrade, I want to verify LOS to the new sats. What are those orbital slots (besides 101, 110, and 119)? How can I determine the elevation and azimuth to those slots from my house?
Sorry for the long story, and TIA.


----------



## RS4

Eben said:


> I am close to upgrading. Currently have 3 LNB dish. When that dish was installed, the installer told me that when the new sats went operational I would need a new dish and that the current location of the dish wouldn't work (on side of garage). He seemed confident that a roof mount would allow line of sight to all the sats. Before getting my hopes up and going through all the touble to arrange the uprage, I want to verify LOS to the new sats. What are those orbital slots (besides 101, 110, and 119)? How can I determine the elevation and azimuth to those slots from my house?
> Sorry for the long story, and TIA.


In addition to here, I would suggest asking your questions over at dbstalk.com since there are a lot more folks familiar with the HR20 then on this Tivo forum.


----------



## milominderbinder

cbridgha said:


> Thanks for all the great advice. I was able to hold out for HR20 for shipping cost with free install etc.. + 6mo HD free. Probably could have held out for more.. but I'm very happy and satisfied.
> 
> Of course install is out to early Oct 8 ugh...hopefully something opens up earlier.
> 
> - Chuck


Chuck,

You did great.

Here are the links and phone numbers from the Getting a Good Deal on the HR20. You have made it to step 8!

8. Click here to verify your order. Or call Customer Installation Support (CIS) at 1-888-355-7530.
9. Click here to see if you can move up your installation date. You may need to check several times to get a great delivery date.
10. Click here to verify your changes to your bill.
11. Follow the HR20 Installation and Initial Setup Tips.

Welcome aboard!

- Craig


----------



## rkester

Well, the first part of my 2 part order that included this upgrade pricing was installed on Friday. The installer said it appeared they did the upgrade 2x to give me the good pricing, as we got both HR20's for free along with 4 SD recievers. And we had only 1 HR10, which we got to keep. In DTV's system, they called it an upgrade from the HR10-250. Wierd... but it worked nicely and they did deliver on the free portion of it. Well, almost. They charged us $45 for the 2 wall drops they needed to do.

Still was cheaper than MY own HR20 and I got a good deal on it.

On a side unrelated note, I was told Sept 8 _was_ the new HD channels launch date they were telling the installers but that ended up not coming to fruition. He said he was expecting them to miss Sept completely now.)


----------



## Halusha

I called today to upgrade my ailing HR10 to a new HR20. After finally getting through to the Retention Dept., I talked to a nice fellow named Juan who first offered me the HR20 at $199 + $19.95 S&H. I asked if I could have it for just the $19.95 S&H charge, and after being on hold for a short period of time, Juan told me I'd been a good customer, blah blah blah, and that yes, he could do it for just the S&H charge. I made sure it included the 5LNB dish, multi-switch, and they are also relocating my HR10 to another room in the house. Score another success for this thread!


----------



## rkester

It is my opinion that DirecTV should be giving the HR20's away for FREE because they provide a service (the channels) not hardware. And, they should be doing so post haste so when the new channels launch, there are not 5 million customers all trying to get a new unit that day, and are all ready to go.

My installer said typically they are notified the day OF when new stuff launches. They should be telling the installers ahead of time so they can get the units installed in peoples homes!

I was also told that as a customer you are allowed 1 "movers connection" a year for free, and should via this mover's connection be able to also get a new dish and new lines run to make sure you are truly ready for the new HD channels.


----------



## sjaroslo

In post 325, ddrucker states that you can no longer diplex satellite with OTA. Is this true? I currently only have one RG6 running to the master bedroom, and I diplex my DirecTV and OTA signals on that wire. I know that I can get locals in HD on the new HR20 but I really want to have 2 inputs so that I can record one thing and watch another... Can anyone clear this up? Thank you.


----------



## dswallow

sjaroslo said:


> In post 325, ddrucker states that you can no longer diplex satellite with OTA. Is this true? I currently only have one RG6 running to the master bedroom, and I diplex my DirecTV and OTA signals on that wire. I know that I can get locals in HD on the new HR20 but I really want to have 2 inputs so that I can record one thing and watch another... Can anyone clear this up? Thank you.


The frequency range that's used for the OTA signals is used by the new 5-LNB dish/multiplexers. So if you diplex an OTA signal, you'll be sacrificing one range of Ka-band frequencies.

However if you use the even-newer SWM (single-wire module) then you can diplex OTA signals with it, plus it also serves multiple tuners over a single coax that can even be run through splitters.


----------



## sjaroslo

Sorry, I just thought of something.... My plan would be to move my HR10-250 to the bedroom, and replace it in the Family Room with the HR20.... In that scenario, knowing that I couldn't get MPEG4 reception on the HR10 anyway, would diplexing still be a reasonable approach to take? The Hr10 isn't going to know what to do with Ka-band info anyway, correct?

Thank you!


----------



## dswallow

sjaroslo said:


> Sorry, I just thought of something.... My plan would be to move my HR10-250 to the bedroom, and replace it in the Family Room with the HR20.... In that scenario, knowing that I couldn't get MPEG4 reception on the HR10 anyway, would diplexing still be a reasonable approach to take? The Hr10 isn't going to know what to do with Ka-band info anyway, correct?


As long as you just diplex OTA on a feed to a non-Ka-band receiver like the HR10-250, you'll be OK.


----------



## Beo

First attempt to upgrade H10 to HR20 didn't go well... I was only offered 299$. I'll call back tomorrow.

However, I also have two super old Samsung SIR-S70 receivers that I use on SD sets. I know they limit me from having the interactive features, but I don't think I'm limited in access to SD channels.

Still, I'd like to swap these out for new D12 receivers. Is this something I should expect at no cost?


----------



## milominderbinder

Beo said:


> First attempt to upgrade H10 to HR20 didn't go well... I was only offered 299$. I'll call back tomorrow.
> 
> However, I also have two super old Samsung SIR-S70 receivers that I use on SD sets. I know they limit me from having the interactive features, but I don't think I'm limited in access to SD channels.
> 
> Still, I'd like to swap these out for new D12 receivers. Is this something I should expect at no cost?


I upgraded my old Sony TiVo SAT-T60 for $19.95. Many have had great results upgrading old TiVo's and old receivers.

I got to keep the old TiVo as well!

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

There may still be time to get the HD package for 9.95 a month.

Once the new HD channels are turned on, it appears that new HD customers may have to pay an added $4.95 for the "HD Extra Pack."

When the new channels go on, current HD subscribers may be grandfathered in at $9.95 not have to pay $4.95 for the HD Extra Pack.

So if you are thinking about upgrading to an HR20, you might want to do it now... Here are the steps.

EDIT: Note that HD Extra has not been announced. This is conjecture based on alleged internal documents.

- Craig


----------



## atlantadan

Milo

I've not heard about the "HD Extra" Pack. 

D* did not mention an extra cost to me for the expanded channels, although I was expecting something like it coming. 

Any more details?


----------



## zig_ziggy

did DirecTv and Tivo come to a new understanding, arrive at a new agreement? I received a flyer in the mail from DirecTV, yesterday, that stated they are working on 'new software' for the Tivo powered unit(s) (HR10-250?). remote scheduling, undelete, recording buffers, etc. etc.

Here's hoping that they find out the HR10-250 will work with the 'new hd' channels, since it supports both the current hd offering and ota hd.

from directv's site: DirecTv HD Programming webpage

"Movies, sports, local channels, special events. DIRECTV HD programming includes something for everyone.

Local Channels in HD
See your favorite shows in HD from major broadcast networks."

In cities where local off-air HD programs are available, off-air antenna required; reception may vary based on geographic location. Programs not delivered in HD in all markets. Eligibility for local channels based on service address.

To access DIRECTV High-Definition programming, a three LNB multi-satellite dish antenna, DIRECTV® HD Receiver, high-definition television and HD Access fee ($9.99/mo.) are required.

*In some markets, a five LNB Dish and H20 model DIRECTV HD Receiver are needed to receive HD local networks delivered by DIRECTV.*"

does this imply the hr10-250 will be able to receive the 'new' hd channels.


----------



## newsposter

they are just adding stuff to our HDtivos. The new mpeg4 never will be seen on HDtivo but at least HDtivo will have some of the goodies other people already have.


----------



## milominderbinder

atlantadan said:


> Milo
> 
> I've not heard about the "HD Extra" Pack.
> 
> D* did not mention an extra cost to me for the expanded channels, although I was expecting something like it coming.
> 
> Any more details?


Here is an alleged internal flyer on the new HD channels:

New HD Channel Lineup 2007

As always, take anything you read on the internet with a really big grain of salt. If this is a fake, it is a really good one that matches up with everything we have been hearing.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

zig_ziggy said:


> did DirecTv and Tivo come to a new understanding, arrive at a new agreement?
> ... does this imply the hr10-250 will be able to receive the 'new' hd channels.


Here is the full announcement.

_...Launching in early 2008, the new software download will provide these customers with DVR enhancements offered with the TiVo service, including a *Recently Deleted Folder and Overlap Protection, as well as DIRECTV's Remote Booking feature.* In addition, DIRECTV and TiVo will continue to explore ways to bring future enhancements to DIRECTV customers with TiVo receivers. _

Software can't fix the fact that the HR10 tuners can't receive the new HD MPEG4. That would be like reprogramming an old analog SD TV to be an HDTV. It is a hardware limitation. Sorry.

Those are nice features. I do like soft buffering on the HR20 and the Remote Booking feature going out to the HR20 CE group is nice. But what is the point if you can't watch HD on your HDTV?

- Craig


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> Here is the full announcement.
> 
> ...
> 
> Those are nice features. I do like soft buffering on the HR20 and the Remote Booking feature going out to the HR20 CE group is nice. But what is the point if you can't watch HD on your HDTV?
> 
> - Craig


The obvious point you seem to miss is that it isn't a Tivo. This is a Tivo forum, not the dbstalk forum and many of us want a DTivo box, not the HR20. I hope enough of us get the message across to DirecTV that we won't settle for anything other than a Tivo-based product.


----------



## fasTLane

Have told them so many times. Tivo and Direct.


----------



## charlie_eberly

Hey Guys. Long time lurker, occasional poster here. I have been watching this thread with interest for quite some time as I have 3 HR10-250's, a 3 LNB and a Zinwell SAM-6802 (I believe it is) switch. I have been very happy with my Tivo's so thinking about spending yet more money to switch them out for HR-20's has not been something I have been looking forward to.

Now for the meat of this post. Yesterday I got the automated call saying I needed to upgrade my equipment and it would be at no cost to me. I thought there was no way they were going to upgrade all 3 receivers, install a new dish and swap out a multiswitch for free. For grins I called them today. A nice lady with a southern accent (Luann I believe) picked up the call. To make a long story short - 3 new in box HR-20's, 5 LNB and switch installed for free. No shipping and handling charge, no install charge, no tax - zero nada. So she wants to schedule it up. I ask about getting to keep my 3 HR-10's (I own all of them) and she says yes you keep them since you own them. Next I ask about a new annual committment. She says there is no new committment since this is a required upgrade. So I said what the heck and pulled the trigger. She says the installer can be here tomorrow morning. 

I am really wondering what is going on here. I live in SoCal and we have enjoyed our locals in MPEG2 HD for quite a long time here. I wonder if it is possible they are going to shut those down soon, thus making this a required upgrade? She stated several times that the upgrade is required and thus the no cost, no committment deal. 

Anyone else (especially in SoCal) getting this offer?


----------



## xtc

charlie_eberly said:


> Hey Guys. Long time lurker, occasional poster here. I have been watching this thread with interest for quite some time as I have 3 HR10-250's, a 3 LNB and a Zinwell SAM-6802 (I believe it is) switch. I have been very happy with my Tivo's so thinking about spending yet more money to switch them out for HR-20's has not been something I have been looking forward to.
> 
> Now for the meat of this post. Yesterday I got the automated call saying I needed to upgrade my equipment and it would be at no cost to me. I thought there was no way they were going to upgrade all 3 receivers, install a new dish and swap out a multiswitch for free. For grins I called them today. A nice lady with a southern accent (Luann I believe) picked up the call. To make a long story short - 3 new in box HR-20's, 5 LNB and switch installed for free. No shipping and handling charge, no install charge, no tax - zero nada. So she wants to schedule it up. I ask about getting to keep my 3 HR-10's (I own all of them) and she says yes you keep them since you own them. Next I ask about a new annual committment. She says there is no new committment since this is a required upgrade. So I said what the heck and pulled the trigger. She says the installer can be here tomorrow morning.
> 
> I am really wondering what is going on here. I live in SoCal and we have enjoyed our locals in MPEG2 HD for quite a long time here. I wonder if it is possible they are going to shut those down soon, thus making this a required upgrade? She stated several times that the upgrade is required and thus the no cost, no committment deal.
> 
> Anyone else (especially in SoCal) getting this offer?


I am in SoCal and got this upgrade yesterday. Nothing about "REQUIRED" was ever mentioned. It's an offer and if you want, you can take them up on it. I got everything you got, except I was slapped with a 2year commitment. I am surprised you were able to get away without one. The only way I could have done that was if I gave back my HR10-250.


----------



## RS4

I'm glad to see some folks getting by without having to sign up for a 2-year commitment. It bothers me that DirecTV seems to say different things to different people.


----------



## rkester

RS4 - It's long been known that if you call and can't get the deal you want, you hang up and call back. Eventually you will get someone who is willing to deal with you. I think it's just the nature of the customer/personal interaction situation as it relates to business. Especially when that business _allows_ it's reps to be flexible to accomplish the sales they need.

I think its great. Just too bad I can't call in and get the deal I want from the first person instead of having to go fishing for deals.


----------



## ebonovic

My bet... is that when it comes time to activate that receiver... you will find that you will have to agree to the 2-year commitment.

Unless you have it in specific writing, that they made a deal with you that specifically excluded it.

Did you ASK if there would be a commitment, are you just assuming it is so because it didn't come up during your specific conversation with the CSR.


----------



## charlie_eberly

ebonovic said:


> My bet... is that when it comes time to activate that receiver... you will find that you will have to agree to the 2-year commitment.
> 
> Unless you have it in specific writing, that they made a deal with you that specifically excluded it.
> 
> Did you ASK if there would be a commitment, are you just assuming it is so because it didn't come up during your specific conversation with the CSR.


Earl, I specifically asked. Actually, the way I asked was "so no cost other than I have to agree to another 2 year committment, right?". She said no but asked me to hold while she verified. She came back with there is no annual committment since this is a required upgrade. I really would not have cared as I have no intentions of leaving and this is a good deal, so no bother either way. Besides, since I get to keep my 3 HR10's I figure I can just hook them back up if I do not like the HR20's (sans new HD channels) so what the heck. But I did specifically ask and the answer was no annual committment. I am still not sure why this was a required upgrade, but the automated message I got on the phone and the CSR both said that. It's possible that after they are activated I might see a new committment (which I am currently free and clear from) but I really don't mind if that is the case. If I do see it, I might argue with them and see if I can get some free credits  But what I do know is that checking online, the order shows exactly what she told me on the phone. 3 HR20's, new dish and new switch. Cost $0.00. So at this point I am not going to doubt her. I'll check back after the install tomorrow and a quick check online to see where we stand. Like I said, I have no problem with a new committment but I thought others might want to know this is what I was promised. I know some have issues with the committment and reading through the threads this seemed to be something new so I wanted to share since I get so much valuable info here and rarely contribute.


----------



## tvl76

I was offered the FREE required upgrade at NO cost to me also. They did not tell me that the pole to mount the dish on was a hundred bucks and the free receiver also meant that I agree to a new 2 year commitment.
The CSR's will tell tell you what you want to hear and button up on what can be the deal breaker.


----------



## charlie_eberly

tvl76 said:


> I was offered the FREE required upgrade at NO cost to me also. They did not tell me that the pole to mount the dish on was a hundred bucks and the free receiver also meant that I agree to a new 2 year commitment.
> The CSR's will tell tell you what you want to hear and button up on what can be the deal breaker.


Well like in my response to Earl, the committment was not a deal breaker for me. I really don't care. If I needed to get out before 2 years was up I would just pay the ticket. But the point here is that I was not basing my acceptance on the fact that there was not a new committment. I just asked "so no cost to me just a new 2 year committment, right?", fully intending to accept the deal with the committment. She went out of her way to put me on hold and verify and she came back with "no since this is a required upgrade". Like I said, I am not sure why it is required, but I knew I would need to swap them out eventually and free for three is as good as it gets. Plus I still have my old units in case I cant deal with the HR20. Doubt this all you want, I am just sharing what I was told. Keep in mind also that I was not calling to upgrade - they called me saying I needed to upgrade. I was not asking for anything, they offered it. I'll verify tomorrow about a new committment and let you know.


----------



## milominderbinder

Arcady said:


> ...Most of those channels do not own HD content...


A lot of programming has been shot in HD but the channels were downgrading it to SD. Years ago at the black & white to color transition, many shows and movies had been in color for years but the local affiliates were not broadcasting color. TV shows that did not jump to color died. The same will happen now with SD to HD.

I just found the old series Boomtown. It was shot in HD but the local affiliate had downgraded it to SD. So now I am watching it again but for the first time in stunning HD.

Monk and Myth Busters are shot HD. Much of the Discovery Channels (TLC, etc.) and History Channel programming has been in HD for 3 years or longer. But most was downgraded to SD.

The Closer has been in real 1080i all along, but we have only seen it in HD-lite until next week.

Old movies and even old Warner Brothers cartoons had film resolution that is more than twice 1080p. There is an enormous catalog of this color content dating back to the 1950's. What was old will suddenly be new again. Have you seen the old westerns coming to Blu-ray or HD-DVD? Breathtaking.

40% of US households have HD. After this holiday season that is projected to exceed 50%. Once CD's hit that critical mass LP's were gone in less than a year. Same for DVDs and VHS.

Still, some prime time shows are not being shot in HD even this fall season.

They will change or die. It's evolution.

- Craig


----------



## jayerndl

milominderbinder said:


> The Closer has been in real 1080i all along, but we have only seen it in HD-lite until next week.
> - Craig


How do we know that we won't be seeing HD-lite next week? D* does not even acknowledge that they are currently sending HD-lite. In fact they are advertising (falsely) that their HD is better quality than cable.

Jay


----------



## charlie_eberly

charlie_eberly said:


> Well like in my response to Earl, the committment was not a deal breaker for me. I really don't care. If I needed to get out before 2 years was up I would just pay the ticket. But the point here is that I was not basing my acceptance on the fact that there was not a new committment. I just asked "so no cost to me just a new 2 year committment, right?", fully intending to accept the deal with the committment. She went out of her way to put me on hold and verify and she came back with "no since this is a required upgrade". Like I said, I am not sure why it is required, but I knew I would need to swap them out eventually and free for three is as good as it gets. Plus I still have my old units in case I cant deal with the HR20. Doubt this all you want, I am just sharing what I was told. Keep in mind also that I was not calling to upgrade - they called me saying I needed to upgrade. I was not asking for anything, they offered it. I'll verify tomorrow about a new committment and let you know.


Well, the installer showed up on time and knocked out the install in a couple hours. Not bad for a new AT9 install, swapping the switch and setting up 3 HR20's. This was the first time I was actually pleased with a visit from a DTV installer. After all the DVR's were activated and the installer left, I checked online and then called DTV to confirm. No new committment. Like I said before, I was not too worried about this anyway but I know a lot of you are so I wanted to check back and say that the so called "required" upgrades do not give you an automatic new committment.

My initial impressions of the HR20 are not bad. Yes it is different. It will take some getting used to but it seems OK with me. My 7 year old son has already learned how to watch what he wants and set up recordings so it can't be that bad. Time will tell if it does what we ask of it but I think most people that don't like it were just too used to how to do things with there HR10. Just my opinion.

So overall I am very happy. 3 New HR20's (all -700's BTW), AT9 install and a multiswitch swap all at no cost to me. Painless install. I still have my 3 HR10's just in case and I did not have to play CSR roulette. They called me and asked me to do this. I really can't ask for more.

It may be beneficial to all of you that can't wait to swap - to wait for DTV to call you. It worked for me.


----------



## videoi

Got my HR20-700 the other day (nightmare of an install, but that's another issue). Bought a Seagate Freeagent Pro 750GB external sata drive. Last night, went to connect it to the HR20.

Powered the drive up, plugged it in to the DVR, and then reset the DVR (tried using the reset button, pulled the power plug, and also tried "reset" from the menu). Couldn't get the DVR to recognize the new drive (I know this because a recording that I had previously done was still available).

Any suggestions?

Ira


----------



## MisterEd

Suggstion, yes, ask the question here: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=112 that is the HR20 support forum. Hpwever it sounds like a bad drive or eSata cable.



videoi said:


> Got my HR20-700 the other day (nightmare of an install, but that's another issue). Bought a Seagate Freeagent Pro 750GB external sata drive. Last night, went to connect it to the HR20.
> 
> Powered the drive up, plugged it in to the DVR, and then reset the DVR (tried using the reset button, pulled the power plug, and also tried "reset" from the menu). Couldn't get the DVR to recognize the new drive (I know this because a recording that I had previously done was still available).
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Ira


----------



## milominderbinder

Eben said:


> I am close to upgrading. Currently have 3 LNB dish. When that dish was installed, the installer told me that when the new sats went operational I would need a new dish and that the current location of the dish wouldn't work (on side of garage). He seemed confident that a roof mount would allow line of sight to all the sats. Before getting my hopes up and going through all the touble to arrange the upgrade, I want to verify LOS to the new sats. What are those orbital slots (besides 101, 110, and 119)? How can I determine the elevation and azimuth to those slots from my house?
> Sorry for the long story, and TIA.


If you can see 101-119 you can see 103.

Here are the steps to the upgrade:

Getting a Good Deal on an HR20

If you are going to do it, do it before the new HD channels come on line. What reason will they have to give deals when they are slammed next week?

- Craig


----------



## SpankyInChicago

SpankyInChicago said:


> I got 3x HR20s, new dish, new multiswitch, and get to keep my 3x HR10-250s (is anbody being asked to give them back?). $297 charge on my bil. $150 immediate credit on my bill. $10 monthly credit for 12 months. 6 months free HBO. That about makes it free for me. Plus they gave me 6 months free Showtime, 6 months free Cinemax, 3 months free Starz. He also "grandfathered" me in on the HD fee so I will never pay an HD monthly fee. That is the only thing that sounds fishy to me as I don't know how they can do that. And I confirmed that I still am grandfathered on my original lifetime Tivo so I pay no DVR fee.
> 
> Pretty happy. Obviously have the new two year commitment.
> 
> Plan on keeping my HR10-250s up and running until they die.


FYI - I cancelled my order.

Don't want to be stuck with this retarded company for two more years. Don't want to lose suggestions. Don't want a 50 SP limit. Don't want two boxes at each TV.


----------



## Eben

milominderbinder said:


> If you can see 101-119 you can see 103.
> 
> Here are the steps to the upgrade:
> 
> Getting a Good Deal on an HR20
> 
> If you are going to do it, do it before the new HD channels come on line. What reason will they have to give deals when they are slammed next week?
> 
> - Craig


Thanks for the link. However, the sat at 99 is the one that's borderline at the current dish location. I'm going to wait until Oct. 8/9 for the sun to verify where I can put the new dish (fingers crossed that current location will work).


----------



## Billy66

SpankyInChicago said:


> FYI - I cancelled my order.
> 
> Don't want to be stuck with this retarded company for two more years. Don't want to lose suggestions. Don't want a 50 SP limit. Don't want two boxes at each TV.


Don't want any new HD Channels....

Seriously, didn't you know any of these things on the 5th when you ordered?


----------



## dswallow

SpankyInChicago said:


> FYI - I cancelled my order.
> 
> Don't want to be stuck with this retarded company for two more years. Don't want to lose suggestions. Don't want a 50 SP limit. Don't want two boxes at each TV.


You're never stuck with them for more time. You can always cancel. You simply will be subject to a prorated cancellation fee of $300... basically $12.50/month for every month left on your commitment.

It's really not a big deal. Figure it's a no-brainer that you'd stick around for at least 5 or 6 months just deciding if you liked the equipment and new HD programming, plus time to figure out an alternative. That'd leave you with only 18 months commitment remaining, which would be a $225 penalty if you then canceled.

And maybe you'd like it or at least not totally hate it and stay longer.

It's not a lot different than investing in a piece of equipment that'd become unusable if you canceled service.

Though otherwise I do agree with you on the limitations of their equipment.


----------



## SpankyInChicago

Billy66 said:


> Don't want any new HD Channels....
> 
> Seriously, didn't you know any of these things on the 5th when you ordered?


Sorry my change of mind seems to have upset you.

WTF?

I did know those things going in, but the deal was a good one so I took it. Upon further consideration, I changed my mind. Perhaps I should have "stayed the course."

I don't "need" the HD channels right now. I am working 80 hour weeks at this point. I am going to hold off and see what ever comes of the Comcast / Tivo box and maybe even the CableCard MCEs.


----------



## Billy66

Oh it didn't upset me a bit Spanky, I was just wondering because it wasn't that long ago. Your path is completely valid IMHO. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.


----------



## RS4

dswallow said:


> You're never stuck with them for more time. You can always cancel. You simply will be subject to a prorated cancellation fee of $300... basically $12.50/month for every month left on your commitment.
> 
> It's really not a big deal. Figure it's a no-brainer that you'd stick around for at least 5 or 6 months just deciding if you liked the equipment and new HD programming, plus time to figure out an alternative. That'd leave you with only 18 months commitment remaining, which would be a $225 penalty if you then canceled.
> 
> And maybe you'd like it or at least not totally hate it and stay longer.
> 
> It's not a lot different than investing in a piece of equipment that'd become unusable if you canceled service.
> 
> Though otherwise I do agree with you on the limitations of their equipment.


You're not stuck with the company; that's for sure, however you are rewarding a company for a lousy product. To my way of thinking, DirecTV is becoming a bully - 'you don't like our products, you're SOL, you still owe us the $300 (or whatever is left)'. Why on earth would anyone sign up for a 'deal' like that is beyond me.


----------



## Knives of Ice

i got a free new hd dvr, a free hd box, hbo/showtime for 3 months and $15 per month credit to cover hd channel fees and dvr service. good deal.

if anyone is interested in buying my hr10-250 just pm me i have the original box, and all manuals.


----------



## jenfavre

I was painlessly offered a free box, free dish, free shipping, free install and NO contract extension. I asked twice if I would be forced to extend my contract and was told no. After reading these stories, I'm pretty leery. But they're coming the 27th. I'll call 10 times between now and then to confirm everything.


----------



## bsgoren

I haven't posted here in a while, but my wife and I have been thinking of making the switch from the HR10 to the HR20 DirecTV HD-DVR (not that we really want to give up our beloved HD-TiVo); we just don't know if it would be better to do it now or wait until all the new D*TV MPEG-4 HD channels are actually online, and then make the switch (probably some time early '08).

Anyone think D*TV will be making even "better" offers to current HR10 customers to switch _after_ they go live with their new MPEG-4 HD lineup? 

What are your thoughts?  Thanks.

btw -- we definitely want more HD, and it appears that the only way to get all these great HD channels from D*TV is to eventually make the switch to D*TV's MPEG-4 unit; I was just hoping we could wait until they come out with a better, improved HD DVR (rather than the HR20).


----------



## RS4

bsgoren said:


> I haven't posted here in a while, but my wife and I have been thinking of making the switch from the HR10 to the HR20 DirecTV HD-DVR (not that we really want to give up our beloved HD-TiVo); we just don't know if it would be better to do it now or wait until all the new D*TV MPEG-4 HD channels are actually online, and then make the switch (probably some time early '08).
> 
> Anyone think D*TV will be making even "better" offers to current HR10 customers to switch _after_ they go live with their new MPEG-4 HD lineup?
> 
> What are your thoughts?  Thanks.
> 
> btw -- we definitely want more HD, and it appears that the only way to get all these great HD channels from D*TV is to eventually make the switch to D*TV's MPEG-4 unit; I was just hoping we could wait until they come out with a better, improved HD DVR (rather than the HR20).


I believe that sometime in the first quarter of next year will be a key decision point for DirecTV. By then, they will have a good idea of how many Tivo households are left that have not gotten one of the non-Tivo boxes. If existing Tivo households don't convert during the next quarter, then I think it will be a sign of how many folks like me don't want to use a product (especially with a 2-year commitment) that we will not be happy with.

Tivo and DirecTV have announced that they are upgrading the existing Series 2 DTivo boxes, so we know the two companies are once again talking with each other. They have made quite a bit of fanfare announcing the changes. For a box that hasn't been made for some time, that is surprising to me. I take it as a sign that the two companies are at least talking about a new DTivo box.

So, I feel that we will know something by the end of the first quarter of next year. - either an announcement of a new DTivo or perhaps a 'no extended commitment period' (which I am starting to see more of). Then, I'll make up my mind on what I'm going to do.


----------



## bsgoren

RS4 said:


> I believe that sometime in the first quarter of next year will be a key decision point for DirecTV. By then, they will have a good idea of how many Tivo households are left that have not gotten one of the non-Tivo boxes. If existing Tivo households don't convert during the next quarter, then I think it will be a sign of how many folks like me don't want to use a product (especially with a 2-year commitment) that we will not be happy with.
> 
> Tivo and DirecTV have announced that they are upgrading the existing Series 2 DTivo boxes, so we know the two companies are once again talking with each other. They have made quite a bit of fanfare announcing the changes. For a box that hasn't been made for some time, that is surprising to me. I take it as a sign that the two companies are at least talking about a new DTivo box.
> 
> So, I feel that we will know something by the end of the first quarter of next year. - either an announcement of a new DTivo or perhaps a 'no extended commitment period' (which I am starting to see more of). Then, I'll make up my mind on what I'm going to do.


Thanks, but that doesn't address the situation of ALL the new HD channels that D*TV will be offering in the 4th Qtr., '07 on their MPEG-4 system using their own HD-DVR (HR20 box). These HD channels cannot be received on any box still on the old MPEG-2 system (including the HR10 HD DirecTiVo). 

This would mean that D*TV and TiVo would have to come out with a compatible MPEG-4 HD DirecTiVo box, which if that actually comes to fruition, would be well into the future (and those of us not switching to the D*TV HD-DVR MPEG-4 box would be missing out on all those new HD channels for a very long time).


----------



## dswallow

bsgoren said:


> This would mean that D*TV and TiVo would have to come out with a compatible MPEG-4 HD DirecTiVo box, which if that actually comes to fruition, would be well into the future (and those of us not switching to the D*TV HD-DVR MPEG-4 box would be missing out on all those new HD channels for a very long time).


Technically it could be done with the Series3 or TiVoHD products.

DirecTV previously announced a USB-connected tuner device to be available for Windows Vista Media Center use. With a driver developed for the Series3 or TiVoHD, the same device could be plugged in the TiVo receiver and the DirecTV datastream from the connected tuners could be processed by the receiver.

This would eliminate the need for hardware development, since presumably that hardware is already developed by DirecTV. It would require only a driver be developed and associated changes in the TiVo receiver software to support use of such a device/driver.


----------



## RS4

bsgoren said:


> Thanks, but that doesn't address the situation of ALL the new HD channels that D*TV will be offering in the 4th Qtr., '07 on their MPEG-4 system using their own HD-DVR (HR20 box). These HD channels cannot be received on any box still on the old MPEG-2 system (including the HR10 HD DirecTiVo).
> 
> This would mean that D*TV and TiVo would have to come out with a compatible MPEG-4 HD DirecTiVo box, which if that actually comes to fruition, would be well into the future (and those of us not switching to the D*TV HD-DVR MPEG-4 box would be missing out on all those new HD channels for a very long time).


Sorry - I read your statement *'I was just hoping we could wait until they come out with a better, improved HD DVR (rather than the HR20)'* as you would be willing to wait for a new product that is Tivo branded.

I see a lot of channels coming down the road, but there are less then a handful that I would even watch since I already get the networks OTA, so I'm in no hurry to rush into a product that I don't think I will like. In my mind, looking at an additional 5 to 8 channels with a box I don't want isn't worth the agony, especially if it requires a 2-yr commitment.


----------



## MisterEd

Agree 100% ... actually there are 3 in the announced group I MIGHT watch occasionally. 90% of my viewing is OTA networks (I just don't have the time to channel surf).


RS4 said:


> Sorry - I read your statement *'I was just hoping we could wait until they come out with a better, improved HD DVR (rather than the HR20)'* as you would be willing to wait for a new product that is Tivo branded.
> 
> I see a lot of channels coming down the road, but there are less then a handful that I would even watch since I already get the networks OTA, so I'm in no hurry to rush into a product that I don't think I will like. In my mind, looking at an additional 5 to 8 channels with a box I don't want isn't worth the agony, especially if it requires a 2-yr commitment.


----------



## milominderbinder

MisterEd said:


> Agree 100% ... actually there are 3 in the announced group I MIGHT watch occasionally. 90% of my viewing is OTA networks (I just don't have the time to channel surf).


If all you do is watch OTA why do you pay for satellite? A standalone TiVo subsription would be way cheaper...

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

I do not see it noted in this thread but the new D10 satellite is up and transmitting test signals on Transponder 11.

Once the new HD is announced, I am thinking that they will need to end the $19 deal because I can only imagine they will be swamped with new installs.

Here are the steps if you are interested.

- Craig


----------



## MisterEd

I didn't say "all I watch is OTA" I said "90% of my viewing is OTA networks," that leaves 10%. I do appreciate your concern though.


milominderbinder said:


> If all you do is watch OTA why do you pay for satellite? A standalone TiVo subsription would be way cheaper...
> 
> - Craig


----------



## fasTLane

LOL

The concern here of late has been astonishing.


----------



## MisterEd

You are thinking way wrong. With the HR21 (not the pro, the cheaper consumer model) coming out any day, barring equipment shortages, I'd bet they will actually be giving away more boxes at no cost then they are now. They have to create the same "experience" cable is providing which means leased DVR's & receivers for no or very low up front cost.


milominderbinder said:


> Once the new HD is announced, I am thinking that they will need to end the $19 deal because I can only imagine they will be swamped with new installs.
> 
> Here are the steps if you are interested.
> 
> - Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

MisterEd said:


> You are thinking way wrong. With the HR21 (not the pro, the cheaper consumer model) coming out any day, barring equipment shortages, I'd bet they will actually be giving away more boxes at no cost then they are now. They have to create the same "experience" cable is providing which means leased DVR's & receivers for no or very low up front cost.


There are only so may installers. They are already swamped as we have seen. Some areas are already at a 4 week installation time.

Maybe as soon as next week, they will have the next batch of HD channels out. Even without advertisement, everyone will be finding out about it.

The only way they can moderate the wait time will be to pull back on the $19 deals to $99 or back to $199.

We will know soon.

- Craig


----------



## chicago51

newbie.. here.. quick question... i was made offers by direct tv to send out replacment units all i had to do was pay the shipping and handleing... but these units are not tivo.. they are dvr. is the programming the same.. i have been tivo since the begining..


----------



## ebonovic

Programming in the sense of "TV Programming".... if so, then yes... everything your TiVo can receive (via SAT)... the HR20's can receive (and then some).

Programming in the sense of "computer" software... .no... they are not the same.


----------



## MisterEd

The interface (menus etc) is totally different on the new DVR (it's not TiVo it's D*'s software). The programming will be the same PLUS you will get the new HD programming which the TiVo sadly won't get.


chicago51 said:


> newbie.. here.. quick question... i was made offers by direct tv to send out replacment units all i had to do was pay the shipping and handleing... but these units are not tivo.. they are dvr. is the programming the same.. i have been tivo since the begining..


----------



## Dirk Legume

Here's my upgrade story (in case it would help anyone)

I sent an email to DTV about a week and a half ago telling them I wanted to upgrade. They replied that I would get a call back within 48 hours. They called last Friday but that was the only downside of the experience. The CSR was polite, spoke the same language I did, and was very helpful. The only thing I noticed was:

You MUST ask for the goodies. 

The CSR would not offer anything, but quickly agreed everytime I asked for something, for example, he told me there would be a 19.99 shipping charge. I asked if they could waive that and he immediately said yes.

So here's what I got:

Free box with install, free dish and new switch with install.

Free relocation of the existing box to another room.

10 dollars off the price of my programming package for a year.

Free Showtime and Cinemax for 6 months.

The install is supposed to take place tomorrow afternoon. I have hope that it goes as well as the rest of it has gone.


----------



## Krookut

That's great Dirk, I had to (politely) threaten them with cancellation in order to be offered the $99 deal.


----------



## fmowry

I just did it this weekend and got 2 new boxes, dish and multi-switch installed. Had to pay $99 for one and just shipping for the other, but they agreed to $10 off my bill for a year and free HD package for a year. Not bad.

Is my old but very good powered Spaun multiswitch (purchased from a group buy though moderator Unixadm) worth anything anymore?

Frank


----------



## RS4

chicago51 said:


> newbie.. here.. quick question... i was made offers by direct tv to send out replacment units all i had to do was pay the shipping and handleing... but these units are not tivo.. they are dvr. is the programming the same.. i have been tivo since the begining..


By the way, they may require you to sign up for a 2-year commitment.


----------



## milominderbinder

fmowry said:


> I just did it this weekend and got 2 new boxes, dish and multi-switch installed. Had to pay $99 for one and just shipping for the other, but they agreed to $10 off my bill for a year and free HD package for a year. Not bad.
> 
> Is my old but very good powered Spaun multiswitch (purchased from a group buy though moderator Unixadm) worth anything anymore?
> 
> Frank


Check eBay for pricing on the Spaun box. Since it is not compatible with the new HD Ka band it may soon not be worth much but often eBay will surprise you.

- Craig
__________________________________________________________
_Here are steps if you are considering the HD upgrade offer._


----------



## Jebberwocky!

milominderbinder said:


> Check eBay for pricing on the Spaun box. Since it is not compatible with the new HD Ka band it may soon not be worth much but often eBay will surprise you.
> 
> - Craig


Can't you return it to walmart:


----------



## milominderbinder

I am betting that tomorrow morning at 6:00 AM EDT, the phone wait time will set a record. If you are upgrading, do it soon...

- Craig


----------



## fasTLane




----------



## Billy66

Nice post fasTLane!


----------



## Dirk Legume

Today was the day for my install. The install guys were on time (actually would have been early if I had been home) I was told they would be there between one and five and they knocked at 1:30. They were fast, efficient, understood what I needed and how to get it done. I have an HR20-100, the CSR told me that the only difference between the 100 and the 700 was the manufacturer. I may have been lied to, I don't know.

In about an hour, I was up and running, everything worked out of the box and I am now trying to figure out how to put my season passes (I know they aren't called that) back in.

Oh, the first time the phone rang after it was set up, the number showed up on the screen. Freaked me out a little. If the old one had caller ID I had disabled it somehow.

The other thing I had not thought about with the upgrade until now is that I will have to figure out how to program my universal remote. It was done for me when the stuff was all installed originally. Time to hit the books.

I know DTV gets a lot of crap about customer service, much of it well deserved, and I know I sound like a shill, but this whole thing worried me and it went much more smoothly than I thought it could.

I have gotten a lot of terrific information from some very helpful people on this board and since I kept the Hr-250 and put it in another room, I am fortunate that I can stick around.

Thanks for the help everyone.


----------



## cp1966

I just tried for the $19.99 upgrade offer. I was only on hold for about 5 minutes, and the offer I received was a new HD DVR, antanae and installation for $99.99, no S&H. I said no way, too much. Others are getting them for $19.99. She denied this.

Funny, a lot of us had this runaround a year ago, including me, when I reied to get the HD Tivo for $19.99. I think it took me 5 calls to get it, but I did.

She asked me if I realized that eventually I will lose all my channels, and I said yes. 

I will try later tonight or tommorow.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

did you talk to retention?

Pretty much all the time I call when prompted I say cancel service and then I confirm I want to cancel. It's surprising how quick you get someone on the line when they think you are leaving.


----------



## milominderbinder

cp1966 said:


> Ijusttried for the $19.99 upgrade offer. I was only on hold for about 5 minutes, and the offer I received was a new HD DVR, antanae and installation for $99.99, no S&H. I said no way, too much. Others are getting them for $19.99. She denied this...


Were you following the steps:

Here is the link to getting the HR20 deal.

You can have the best of both worlds! Keep your TiVo for MPEG2 HD as long as you can but always for OTA and SD.

- Craig


----------



## cp1966

I followed it somewhat. I just picked up a free used directv tivo for regular tv from a fiend and I needed to swap receivers in my workout room. 

After that was done, she asked if there was anything else. I said I needed my HD Tivo replaced because I was not going to be getting all the HD channels. She said she would forward me to someone else to see what deals were available.

When the other person came on she said she would look at what "offers" were available. 

Next time I call I will say "cancel service" when prompted.


----------



## Anubys

cp1966 said:


> She asked me if I realized that eventually I will lose all my channels, and I said yes.


see...the retort to that remark is "I'm pretty sure Verizon/Comcast/whatever will have all these channels when I switch to them"...


----------



## cp1966

Anubys said:


> see...the retort to that remark is "I'm pretty sure Verizon/Comcast/whatever will have all these channels when I switch to them"...


Ha, you are correct!

I called tonight and said "cancel" when prompted. When the operator came on I said I wanted to replace my HD Tivo so I could get all the channels. I was then redirected to "technical support" and I was offered the $99.99 upgrade. I responded that others were getting it for $19.99 and I was told that expired a week or 2 ago. I said I would wait until my receivers did not work anymore and then cancel. He then asked me if I could hold a minute while he checked for other offers.

He came with "since you have been a long time customer in good standing with auto pay, he would allow me to replace my HD Tivo with the DirecTv HD DVR for $99.99 plus tax, and he would credit me the full amount.

The free install is scheduled for next week!


----------



## rminsk

cp1966 said:


> She asked me if I realized that eventually I will lose all my channels, and I said yes.


Again, misinformation from CSR. You will only be missing the DirecTV HD channels. Standard definition DirecTV channels and OTA HD will still work just fine.


----------



## gkettell

cp1966 said:


> Ha, you are correct!
> 
> I called tonight and said "cancel" when prompted. When the operator came on I said I wanted to replace my HD Tivo so I could get all the channels. I was then redirected to "technical support" and I was offered the $99.99 upgrade. I responded that others were getting it for $19.99 and I was told that expired a week or 2 ago. I said I would wait until my receivers did not work anymore and then cancel. He then asked me if I could hold a minute while he checked for other offers.
> 
> He came with "since you have been a long time customer in good standing with auto pay, he would allow me to replace my HD Tivo with the DirecTv HD DVR for $99.99 plus tax, and he would credit me the full amount.
> 
> The free install is scheduled for next week!


I was quoted $199 by the first CSR rep. Asked to talk to retention, they offered $99 since I have a HR10-250 already, + free HD access for a year + 2 year commitment. The only other thing I could talk them into was 3 months HBO.

My current commitment is up in 2 months. I am very reluctant to take any deal that requires me to commit to 2 more years, so I passed for now.


----------



## NatasNJ

gkettell said:


> I was quoted $199 by the first CSR rep. Asked to talk to retention, they offered $99 since I have a HR10-250 already, + free HD access for a year + 2 year commitment. The only other thing I could talk them into was 3 months HBO.
> 
> My current commitment is up in 2 months. I am very reluctant to take any deal that requires me to commit to 2 more years, so I passed for now.


I got similiar offer. 2 year commitment, shipping charge $19, free DVR and 6 months free HD. My commitment ends years end. I took deal but was scheduled for install tomorrow but just pushed it back to Oct and hopefully I can decide by then what I want to do. Very torn here.


----------



## milominderbinder

Has anyone had success in the past day or two?

- Craig


----------



## Fredzep

I got the HR20 for $19.99 today with the 5 LNB dish to be installed next Thursday.
No mention of commitment, although I am in the middle of a 1 year commitment.


----------



## milominderbinder

Late last night on Channels 9300 and 9301 they showed the new channels for the National Geographic Channel HD and the Discovery Channel HD.

Since Wednesday they have added test channels at 498, 480, and 481 from the new HD satellite.

We are hearing that as of today they were still giving the $19 deal.

Add a new receiver for $19

You could keep your TiVo for OTA and SD and the 9 MPG2 channels as long as they are broadcast. You would also have the HR20 for OTA, SD, old HD, and all the new HD.

With two receivers you could record 4 games or programs at once. If your TV is capable, you now have PIP DLB! Watch two games at once!

You can have the best of both worlds. Free is good.

- Craig


----------



## Valor55

I just got the $19 deal. Literally a couple minutes ago, I hung up and started posting here.

I followed the instructions linked above here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938

I said "Cancel service" and then confirmed "cancel" and immediately got a rep. I'm guessing that was retention.

I got a female first and confirmed I'm out of my commitment. She said the best she could do was $99. I said I'd think about it since Dish is offering free HD DVR upgrade to their free HD installation package.

I called back a while later and got a guy. He again told me what a great deal the $99 was and that would save me tons of cash. I told him I read on here and DBS about the $19 deal and he couldn't find any such deal in his system. I then told him I was aware I'm out of my commitment and that a new commitment was required and that I'd be willing to agree to that and suddenly he was able to waive all the hardware fees and give me the $19 deal.

So in the end I bargained my committment but got the better hardware deal still.

I'm going to miss the Tivo but I don't want to be stuck with a paperweight in a couple months and have nothing to bargain with anymore.


----------



## migdoc

thought I'd share my experience which was rather passive. I had 3 of the -250 hd-dvr units all getting old and creaky and starting to experience a variety of minor malfunctions cleared by restarts. also had annoying call in messages on all 3 units as I went to VOIP a while back.

anyway, got directv email adving me to call in and get upgraded. I decided to do this and just play dumb and not ask for anything and see what was offered.

given new dish, multiswitch and 3 HR20 HD DVRs and install at zero cost as the initial offer. was told installers would take my old units which I protested as I had purchased them at retail outlets myself.

anyway, installers were great, looked at old wiring and told me it was good, told me my old multiswitch was best one they'd ever seen (german brand via ebay purchase) but advised to have new multiswitch installed which I agreed to.

of course *they left all the old equipment. anyone know what I can do with them other than pulling the hard drives for general use?*

yes, I know I might have asked for programming credits etc was was suprised to get above at zero cost. wasn't told of new 2 yr committment but of course installers paperwork had that in writing for me to sign.

I am getting excellent picture quality on all 3 units which pleases me. wife is pissed at loss of dual buffer but I am pleased with faster response of units and ease of recording.

anyway, this is what you could potentially get if you wait for the email inviting you to upgrade.


----------



## milominderbinder

Valor55 said:


> I just got the $19 deal. Literally a couple minutes ago, I hung up and started posting here.
> 
> I followed the instructions linked above here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=839938#post839938
> 
> I said "Cancel service" and then confirmed "cancel" and immediately got a rep. I'm guessing that was retention.


Congratulations!

Keep your old TiVo for OTA and SD and the 9 MPG2 channels as long as they are broadcast.

You will also have the HR20 for OTA, SD, old HD, and all the new HD. You can also get up to $120 in programming credits.

If you were going to stay with DIRECTV anyway, Those credits might covers the cost of the $4.99 mirror/lease fee for 24 months as well.

With two receivers you could record 4 games or programs at once. If your TV is capable, you now have PIP DLB! Watch two games at once!

I think that the only reason people are still getting the $19 deal is that they are not yet slammed once the new HD are released.

- Craig


----------



## Anubys

migdoc said:


> of course *they left all the old equipment. anyone know what I can do with them other than pulling the hard drives for general use?*


they still have value on ebay...


----------



## gkettell

The best I was able to get was the $99 for the HR20 + 1 year free HD Access + 3 months of Starz. Already have a 5 LNB dish. Installation is on 10/6. 2 yr commitment required.

Although when I mentioned that my local channel reception was terrible with an indoor antenna and that Albany HD locals aren't even on their list yet they referred me to Winegard and offered me up to $150 credit to get an outdoor antenna installed, so I can't really complain.


----------



## milominderbinder

gkettell said:


> The best I was able to get was the $99 for the HR20 + 1 year free HD Access + 3 months of Starz. Already have a 5 LNB dish. Installation is on 10/6. 2 yr commitment required.
> 
> Although when I mentioned that my local channel reception was terrible with an indoor antenna and that Albany HD locals aren't even on their list yet they referred me to Winegard and offered me up to $150 credit to get an outdoor antenna installed, so I can't really complain.


You did great getting the deal!

Here are two links that may help you get OTA channels:

→ Dozens of Great HD Channels are Just Waiting for You
→ Adding More HD Channels

You can also call solidsignal.com to ask about your antenna needs. They have Winegard and ChannelMaster and many other brands, give great advice, and are always cheap.

Good Luck!

- Craig


----------



## mspalacios

I'm trying to replace 1 HR-250 HDTVio and 1 SIR4120 SD DTVivo. So far I've been offered 1 HD DVR receiver for $19.99 s/h plus another unit or $199, but with $100 in HD Service free for a year, making the 2nd HD DVR $99. They threw in Premium package free for 6 months.

I'm looking for upgrades to HD for both my DVRs..... is this even possible? Have folks gotten 2 HD DVRs for for S/H only?

Thanks


----------



## duckyspawn

I am trying to get them to offer me the $19.00 deal, but I cant even get them to budge on the $199.00 price. I have tried twice. Any suggestions?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

duckyspawn said:


> I am trying to get them to offer me the $19.00 deal, but I cant even get them to budge on the $199.00 price. I have tried twice. Any suggestions?


did you talk with retention?


----------



## duckyspawn

Yes, and she told me that they will not be giving any offers of $19.00 any longer. They are stuck on the $199 price. 

My commitment ends in a month, so I will have to see what happens. I am not paying $199 for the receiver. 

Any other ideas?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

call back and tell them you are leaving for Dish - and be prepared to follow thru


----------



## rkester

I'd just call back and talk to someone else. Be nice, if they don't put up a wall, you will get good deals.


----------



## duckyspawn

I was very nice when I spoke to her and she refused to budge. 

I also told her Dish was offering their HD PVR for free but that I preferred to stay with DTV. She didnt seem to care. 

I dont want to turn this into a "how does Dish compare to DTV", so is there a thread for that?

I am not going to pay $199 for the box. I spent enough on my HD Tivo.


----------



## rkester

How long have you bee with DTV? have you paid your bills mostly on time? How much is your monthly avg cost?

The retention people I get are always very helpful. Like in my case with this last deal, I got free SHO/HBO when hooking my folks new stuff up just because the retention guy was good enough to think of me as well as them.


----------



## duckyspawn

I have been with DTV for 8 years and have never had a late payment. My average bill is probably $70. 

I dont understand why they are taking such a hardline stance.


----------



## rkester

Honestly with your record, you should be able to easily get a better deal! I have 11 years and LOTS of late payments with an avg bill of $80 and I have no problems.

I say maybe it's time to cry and show them cleavage  lol.

Seriously though, I think a call to the right retention person would do the trick.


----------



## milominderbinder

duckyspawn said:


> I have been with DTV for 8 years and have never had a late payment. My average bill is probably $70.
> 
> I dont understand why they are taking such a hardline stance.


Have you made the third or fourth calls back? Many do not succeed on the first couple of calls.

How many Hearts did she say you had?

What did she say was your buyout amount?

If you mention how old you are or how long you have had DIRECTV it seems to be a deal-breaker. Did you say either?

Were you following the steps:

Here is the link to getting the HR20 deal.

Also, are you certain you got through to retention? At the main prompt the password is "CANCEL" to get retention.

Unless you have a low Hearts rating, we should be able to help you.

- Craig


----------



## norm807

Last week I called to get the $19 deal, and I followed the DBS link that others have posted. I started by saying cancel and it gets you to the right people. I was nice to the guy on the phone and just told him I heard that they are rolling out new HD content and I would need a different receiver. He looked up my account and said, "yes, your HR10-250 will need to be swapped out, and we can do that for $99." Before I had a chance to respond, he followed up with "but since your a good customer, I can wave the $99 dollar fee." So, I responded with thanks.. that is awesome, so do I have to pay shipping or anything? and his response was no. So he even waved the shipping. I then asked if there were any other programming discounts available and he checked and said, "but sir you already have the full package..." I said ya, but I was just checking.. you never know.. he responded with yeah.. let me see.. then came back with $10 off for 12 months. 

After complementing him on how great he did, I asked how they do these wavers and he said that it is decided in the first few seconds of the call.. He said that had I been threatening to leave or been rude on the phone.. that I would not have received those wavers... It sounds like the deals are at the will of the rep on the phone. 

He set this up as a swap, but can I just tell the installer to leave the HR10 so I can use it on another tv? It is leased. does that matter?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

milominderbinder said:


> Also, are you certain you got through to retention? At the main prompt the password is "CANCEL" to get retention.- Craig


that is the most important part of the advice to follow


----------



## duckyspawn

I did say cancel and I believe it brought me to retention. They would not tell me how many hearts I had. I have made 3 phone calls today to no avail. 

My contract expires at the end of October so I only have one more month basically. I didnt threaten to leave but did tell them I was aware my commitment was expiring. I said Dish was offering their HD PVR for free but I would prefer to stay with D. 

Didnt matter what I said. They wouldnt budge and insisted nobody will be getting the $19.00 deal.


----------



## rkester

Almost makes me want to get your info and call myself to prove it can be done lol!


----------



## duckyspawn

I will try again tomorrow and see what they tell me.


----------



## JEDeG

Called D* last night re an OTA guide problem on my H20 (not HR-20). CSR said it was a box issue and they would send me a replacement. I then asked about HR-10 upgrade to the HR-20. CSR said there was a promotion (totally free deal) but it had ended. Deal was back to $99. He was looking up something else for me but the call dropped. I reconnected with a different CSR, went thru all the details, and again asked about the HR-20. She said I could have it for free - no shipping cost, no contract extension, no return of my owned HR-10. I really wasn't ready to replace my TiVo yet, but she said the deal was of unknown duration, so I went for it. Not bad, eh? I've only been a customer for 3+ years, paying around $80+/month. I've always been very polite when I've called, so maybe that counts.


----------



## milominderbinder

duckyspawn said:


> I will try again tomorrow and see what they tell me.


Tomorrow the new channels will be out and the hold times may be kind of long. I have no idea if they will be giving any deals. They may be too slammed.

Still work through the steps:

You can have the best of both worlds.

Get a Great Deal on an HR20

Do each step exactly as written. All are there for a reason.

You could keep your TiVO for your old channels. You would also have the HR20 for OTA, SD, old HD, and all the new HD.

With two receivers you could record 4 games or programs at once. If your TV is capable, you now have PIP DLB! Watch two games at once!

- Craig


----------



## duckyspawn

Tried again this morning. Same offer: $199. Guess I will stick to my HDTivo and start shopping around when my commitment expires in a month. 

I was very nice on the phone and didnt get anywhere. I explained the offer wasnt good enough but he didnt seem to care.


----------



## bilbomims

I called two weeks ago on a technical issue with my access card on my hr10. Without asking CSR said I could upgrade for $99. I decided against it and just swapped out my hr10 with an older hr10 I had sitting around that had problems as well. took it a couple of weeks before the old one starting having issues with cutting my recorded shows short 5 to 10 minutes. Called 3 times yesterday and they said the 99 dollar deal was no longer available. got someone this morning who said the same thing but I was humble and nice and she said since the offer was made to me already that she would honor it for $99.


----------



## milominderbinder

Well it happened.

The 21 new channels were released this morning.

Take at look at A&E, Discovery, History channel, CNN, or even the Weather Channel to see what HD was supposed to look like. I can't wait to see what HBO, Showtime, ESPN, ESPN2, and TNT look like when they are moved to real HD.

As we guessed, the call centers are being slammed. Note that this is just from word of mouth at this point. As of now, they had not even made a press release.

Many are now reporting that the $19 deal is gone and only with real effort can you get the $99 deal but only with a supervisor over-ride. By tonight the $99 deal may be gone as well.

If this follows what happened last fall, a few days after the HR20 started to ship, the price went to $299 firm with no programming credits. Delivery times shot out. Once they hit 10 weeks they stopped taking orders and would only put you on a wait list.

If you are still thinking about doing it, call now...

- Craig



milominderbinder said:


> Tomorrow the new channels will be out and the hold times may be kind of long. I have no idea if they will be giving any deals. They may be too slammed.
> 
> Still work through the steps:
> 
> You can have the best of both worlds.
> 
> Get a Great Deal on an HR20
> 
> Do each step exactly as written. All are there for a reason.
> 
> You could keep your TiVo for your old channels. You would also have the HR20 for OTA, SD, old HD, and all the new HD.
> 
> With two receivers you could record 4 games or programs at once. If your TV is capable, you now have PIP DLB! Watch two games at once!
> 
> - Craig


----------



## fasTLane

They can raise it to $499 FAIC. The old DirecTivo is still chugging along fine at this address.


----------



## milominderbinder

fasTLane said:


> They can raise it to $499 FAIC. The old DirecTivo is still chugging along fine at this address.


No, no, no! The point of the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 is *not  * to replace the old TiVo. It is to add a second DVR so that you get 4 tuners instead of 2, double the storage, real PIP DLB, etc.

Roughly a zillion users added an HR20 for free or $19 with HD, DVR, etc. programming credit worth more than $120. That more than covered their cost of of the 24 months of a $4.99 lease.

Free is good.

As of this morning, some are still reporting getting the $99 deal and some with programming credits. But note that there is not an official press release yet and they have not run HD ads since the first of August. This is all word of mouth so far.

I have nothing to base this on but what I read but I predict this time-line:

Now through November
New channel announcements just often enough to keep the call centers and installers maxed out. Limit HD ads to limit backlogs.

December 
Christmas HD frenzy predicted to far exceed 2007. D11 Launch date.

January
Super Bowl frenzy, again predicted to far exceed the 2007 records.

February
D11 comes online and the new channel announcement cycle starts again.

Summer 2008
NFL ST holders scramble to convert to new HDs for 2008.

- Craig


----------



## MisterEd

Go away PLEASE, You're worse then a spammer. Even when I have you in my ignore list here I still see your spam because I'm subscribed to the thread.

Maybe we all should all just chip in and buy you a banner on top of the forum, that way you don't have to post the same F###$#* message 100X in every message thread.

ENOUGH ALREADY!



milominderbinder said:


> No, no, no! The point of the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 is *not  * to replace the old TiVo. It is to add a second DVR so that you get 4 tuners instead of 2, double the storage, real PIP DLB, etc.
> 
> Roughly a zillion users added an HR20 for free or $19 with HD, DVR, etc. programming credit worth more than $120. That more than covered their cost of of the 24 months of a $4.99 lease.
> 
> Free is good.
> 
> As of this morning, some are still reporting getting the $99 deal and some with programming credits. But note that there is not an official press release yet and they have not run HD ads since the first of August. This is all word of mouth so far.
> 
> I have nothing to base this on but what I read but I predict this time-line:
> 
> Now through November
> New channel announcements just often enough to keep the call centers and installers maxed out. Limit HD ads to limit backlogs.
> 
> December
> Christmas HD frenzy predicted to far exceed 2007. D11 Launch date.
> 
> January
> Super Bowl frenzy, again predicted to far exceed the 2007 records.
> 
> February
> D11 comes online and the new channel announcement cycle starts again.
> 
> Summer 2008
> NFL ST holders scramble to convert to new HDs for 2008.
> 
> - Craig


----------



## rkester

*MisterEd, please let's keep this civil.* There is no reason to bash another person who is trying to be helpful. The info he linked to is useful and might help someone with their quest for a cheap or free HR20.

The only person here who I see being offensive is you.


----------



## fasTLane

milominderbinder said:


> Point...is to add a second DVR so that you get 4 tuners instead of 2, double the storage, real PIP DLB, etc.


KISS



> Roughly a zillion users...


LOL


----------



## dslunceford

milominderbinder said:


> Many are now reporting that the $19 deal is gone and only with real effort can you get the $99 deal but only with a supervisor over-ride. By tonight the $99 deal may be gone as well.
> 
> If this follows what happened last fall, a few days after the HR20 started to ship, the price went to $299 firm with no programming credits. Delivery times shot out. Once they hit 10 weeks they stopped taking orders and would only put you on a wait list.
> 
> If you are still thinking about doing it, call now...
> 
> - Craig


$99 with free ship and 2-year was best they offered me last night at 4:30 ET, but I don't know how many hearts I am (retention agent wouldn't provide). Given the cost and the commitment, I'm strongly leaning toward no action or finally switching over to FiOS for TV in addition to current broadband...


----------



## rkester

dslunceford said:


> $99 with free ship and 2-year was best they offered me last night at 4:30 ET, but I don't know how many hearts I am (retention agent wouldn't provide). Given the cost and the commitment, I'm strongly leaning toward no action or finally switching over to FiOS for TV in addition to current broadband...


It's really too bad they don't try harder to do nice deals for everyone. They are really selling a signal/service to folks, so giving a few units away is a good thing.

If you can't get a deal and have another elsewhere, go for it. And be sure to send them a nice letter thanking them for your new TV provider. So they know what they lost.

I did this with a store who I stopped visiting. I sent their manager a copy of every reciept from things I bought at their competitor with a nice "thanks" on behalf of the company they lost my business to. I stopped doing so after a year but showed them over $20k in reciepts to remind them I was not playing around.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

rkester said:


> MisterEd the only person here who I see being offensive is you.


beat me to it!


----------



## pendragn

MisterEd said:


> Go away PLEASE, You're worse then a spammer. Even when I have you in my ignore list here I still see your spam because I'm subscribed to the thread.
> 
> Maybe we all should all just chip in and buy you a banner on top of the forum, that way you don't have to post the same F###$#* message 100X in every message thread.
> 
> ENOUGH ALREADY!


You don't speak for all of us. I would rather you go away than he does. He provides useful information. You don't. You contribute nothing.

tk


----------



## milominderbinder

MisterEd said:


> Go away PLEASE...


Mr. Ed,

This is the thread about the *HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer*. That offer changed this morning when the new channels were released.

If you feel that this thread should be deleted, please refer to a moderator. But posting an update to a current thread is how a discussion forum works.

We don't want people to feel like they have to decide between TiVO and getting the new HD channels.

We owe it to them to tell them they can have the best of both worlds.

- Craig


----------



## NatasNJ

milominderbinder said:


> Mr. Ed,
> 
> This is the thread about the *HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer*. That offer changed this morning when the new channels were released.
> 
> If you feel that this thread should be deleted, please refer to a moderator. But posting an update to a current thread is how a discussion forum works.
> 
> We don't want people to feel like they have to decide between TiVO and getting the new HD channels.
> 
> We owe it to them to tell them they can have the best of both worlds.
> 
> - Craig


You do come off as an Directv Employee or someone who benefits based on your desire to get people to switch over to the Directv DVR. I personally don't care but your consistent posting of the same post does seem odd. Meh...


----------



## LlamaLarry

Repeating the same information in new posts likely hits more eyes than hoping people know how to search.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

you're only as good as your last post 

I didn't remember seeing it and if I did I would just go to the next one.


----------



## dgomer

Just curious..for those who have multiple HD tivos, or just plain SD tivos, what has been your cost to upgrade?


----------



## bigpuma

dgomer said:


> Just curious..for those who have multiple HD tivos, or just plain SD tivos, what has been your cost to upgrade?


I currently have 1 HR20, 1 HR10, and 1 R10. I got the HR20 for free, I got the R10 for $100 - $100 rebate so also basically free after a few months. I paid $850 for the HR10 a few years ago.

I have also paid I believe $300 for a Sony SAT-T60 which was my first DVR and I think I paid $100 for an SD-DVR80 at one point as well.


----------



## Mike Lang

MisterEd will be back next week. Lets get back on topic. Thanks


----------



## Anubys

Mike Lang said:


> MisterEd will be back next week. Lets get back on topic. Thanks


now THAT is a funny post...

I feel bad for procrastinating this...my wife was adamant that I will not take her Tivo away so I only upgraded one of three units...I'm afraid now I'll have to pay to upgrade (and yes, I have kept the HR10 alongside the new HR20)...


----------



## HiDefGator

Last Saturday I had 2 HR20's installed for $200 - $120 in monthly credits. Or roughly $40 each. They didn't want my old HR10's so I'm not sure I would call it an upgrade.


----------



## Cody21

Just got off the phone today - bit the bullet so to speak now that D* released the new HD lineup. I had been on the fence about this for some time. Here's my deal:

FREE HR20 upgrade
Replace an old 2nd SD RCA receiver for an H20 (non-DVR) for $99 + tax
6 Months of free HD Pkg
FREE installation - they're scheduled to install this coming Saturday morning
2 Year Lease agreement

She also offered a reduced rate on NFL ticket (since I have PLatinum status). I didn't want it.

Oh, and my old HR10-250 is mine...


----------



## jbs01

Made my first call to Retention a few minutes ago. Their offer wasn't the best I've read of, but I was happy and went with it.

I explained that I'd heard to continue to receive HD programming, I'd need new equipment. Nora (the CSR) explained I'd need the HR20 and the new 5 LNB dish. I played dumb and went along. She checked to see what she could offer and came back with the $299 deal listed online. I explained that I was shocked that was the best they could offer. I'd paid out of pocket $400 for a SAT-60 years ago, $1000 for my HR10-250, $100 for the 3 LNB dish and $100 for a multi-switch back in 2004. So basically, I'm $1200 into HD equipment that enables me to pay them $9.99/month (for HD) and in the near future, I won't be able to receive it anymore. I played the ol' Dish Network free HD DVR deal and she said, yeah but their HD fee is an additional $20 per month.

We hassled a bit and she came back with a $250 credit knocking my cost down to $50 plus $19.95 for shipping. I said that still wasn't good enough. She then came back with free HD ($9.99/month) for a year and free HBO for 6 months. That worked for me!

I confirmed that my free Lifetime DVR service will carry over to the new equipment and that the new dish and multi-switch are included. Also included is up to 275 feet of new cable. I keep my HR10-250 and the installer will put it in another location (which I intend to keep it along side the HR20 to have 4 recorders going). She wouldn't budge off the 2 year commitment, but I'm okay with that.

Thanks for all the help from previous posts in this thread.


----------



## rkester

So has the general "hook up our customers with a deal" attitude changed now that the new channels are online? If so, has it changed for the better?


----------



## milominderbinder

Cody21 said:


> Just got off the phone today - bit the bullet so to speak now that D* released the new HD lineup. I had been on the fence about this for some time. Here's my deal:
> 
> FREE HR20 upgrade
> Replace an old 2nd SD RCA receiver for an H20 (non-DVR) for $99 + tax
> 6 Months of free HD Pkg
> FREE installation - they're scheduled to install this coming Saturday morning
> 2 Year Lease agreement
> 
> She also offered a reduced rate on NFL ticket (since I have Platinum status). I didn't want it.
> 
> Oh, and my old HR10-250 is mine...


Cody,

I guess I stand corrected. I can't prove it but based on what others are saying, I still believe that we will now be seing a deal like that as the exception rather than the rule. I think your deal had a lot to do with your "Platimum Status."

You just proved that we can still have the best of both worlds. You could keep your TiVo for your old channels and have the HR20 for OTA, SD, old HD, and all the new HD. Plus record 4 games or programs at once with twice the storage and get real PIP DLB if your TV is capable.

I updated the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 to say that $199 may be the best that most will do now.

Cody, good job! And what is "Platimum Status"?

- Craig


----------



## Jebberwocky!

dgomer said:


> Just curious..for those who have multiple HD tivos, or just plain SD tivos, what has been your cost to upgrade?


3 250's upgraded to 3 hr20's + dish + switch -> total cost = $19.95 early Sept-07


----------



## LlamaLarry

Jebberwocky! said:


> 3 250's upgraded to 3 hr20's + dish + switch -> total cost = $19.95 early Sept-07


Well dang! I would forget all about waiting for SWM if I could upgrade all 3 of my HR10's for $19.95. I have 6 DirecTiVos total, but could live with the other 3 SD boxes staying SD if they were going to ask for $99-$199 each to upgrade.


----------



## rkester

Too bad you can't direct call a particular person there who hooked others up. Would certainly make it easier for the folks here to get a good deal.

I am very happy with the deal I got for my folks to get them the HR20 to replace their older HD Tivo unit. And am happy others are getting good deals too.


----------



## Cessnadog

Took 3 calls, got the upgrade for 19.95 +Tax

First call, 299 less 100 discount
Second call 299 no discounts
third call, 19.95 + Tax... 21.35 total.


----------



## DDayDawg

I am on the phone with a nice CSR right now. She wouldn't tell me my hearts but I have the Premium package, been with DTV for like 10 years, auto-pay, have re-uped commitment several times, and overall should be sitting near 5 hearts.

At first she said it was $199 plus shipping but I gave a sad speech about how much I paid for the 10-250 and how it was almost useless. I was very nice and didn't threaten although I did mention I could go to Comcast and still use a TiVo. She immediately gave me the HR20 for free with the dish upgrade and only the $19 shipping fee. I asked if there were any programming credits and after a minute on hold I got $10 off for 1 year.

First call so I feel lucky.


----------



## Cessnadog

I should have asked for credit! 
I was feeling pretty good about my deal so I didn't push it.


----------



## Sir_winealot

milominderbinder said:


> Cody,
> 
> I guess I stand corrected. I can't prove it but based on what others are saying, I still believe that we will now be seing a deal like that as the exception rather than the rule. I think your deal had a lot to do with your "Platimum Status."
> 
> You just proved that we can still have the best of both worlds. You could keep your TiVo for your old channels and have the HR20 for OTA, SD, old HD, and all the new HD. Plus record 4 games or programs at once with twice the storage and get real PIP DLB if your TV is capable.
> 
> I updated the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 to say that $199 may be the best that most will do now.
> 
> Cody, good job! And what is "Platimum Status"?
> 
> - Craig


It would be downright stupid for D* to now start charging $199 for an HR20 swap/replacement ...I don't believe it's a precedent that they'll set. If you currently have an HR10, it's simply a matter (once again  ) of playing CSR roulette.

Really sucks that we have to go through this, but it's an unfortunate fact of being a D* customer.

IMO there will be no stopping of the $19.99/FREE HR20 deal, no matter the HD channels. In fact, I believe that the more HD channels are launched ...and the more time that goes by, the better chance someone has of getting the unit for free.

Common sense would dictate that the closer we get to the discontinuation of MPEG2 ...the more D* is going to want to seperate people from their HR10's at no cost...or they're gonna have a helluva lot of unhappy customers in their face.

They sold/leased HR10's and contractually obligated us for 2 years ...and we're paying for HD access. They cannot simply 'turn it off' while telling customers they have to shell out $199 in order to keep viewing the HD content that they are paying for.

IMO it's not going to get more difficult to get a freebie ...it's gonna get _easier._


----------



## Billy66

I agree with the good Sir. As a function of time, this, like all DTV receivers will approach free. given the issues DTV created with their own technology migration, it seems more so.

Perhaps if there's a supply problem now (either from units, dishes, or installation appointments), that could artificially prop it up for a bit.


----------



## duckyspawn

Well I tried 3 times in two days and the best they would give me was the $199 deal. I am going to wait a couple of weeks and call them back. My commitment ends in one month so in a few weeks I might have a little more leverage.


----------



## Cody21

milominderbinder said:


> Cody, good job! And what is "Platimum Status"?
> 
> - Craig


Sorry I meant "Premier" ... the top package they have to offer.


----------



## LlamaLarry

How much a month is the "top package" going to be with the full HD Access? I sub to Premier + the old HD package now and I am simply not bright enough to figure out how much all the channels (non intl/PBTV/etc) will run me when I finally upgrade. Might have to consolidate some boxes if it is too much.


----------



## Cody21

LlamaLarry said:


> How much a month is the "top package" going to be with the full HD Access? I sub to Premier + the old HD package now and I am simply not bright enough to figure out how much all the channels (non intl/PBTV/etc) will run me when I finally upgrade. Might have to consolidate some boxes if it is too much.


I've not heard/read of any Price increase for Premier customers. The HD package (I think) remains the same - $4.99/mo ... BUT Maybe this is all wishful thinking... If the price for Premier goes up by much (e.g., $10+/mo) as well as the price of the HD Pkg, I will definitely start reconsidering the various packages.


----------



## LlamaLarry

Like I said, not quite bright enough to decipher the various HD rate threads, will it be the current $4.99 + the new $9.99 HD Access fee? Also I heard rumors that Premier was going to drop the inclusion of the $4.99 DVR fee?


----------



## dswallow

duckyspawn said:


> My commitment ends in one month so in a few weeks I might have a little more leverage.


Nah, that's pretty meaningless. You could pay $12.50 and leave now, so it's hardly that you're stuck now but free in a month. It's really just CSR roulette that matters.


----------



## JohnB1000

I just got a decent deal.

Called, asked for "Cancel" Got a guy, asked him what the best deal is for a new HR20 (I already have one HR20)

*He offered $199*
I asked if that's the best he can do
*$199 with $10 per month discount for 12 months*
Is that the best ? I'd hate to hear a neighbor got better ?
*OK $99 , free S&H + $10 per month off for 12 months*

Installation is tomorrow, Thursday AM, no discussion of replacing a receiver, new two year committment.

I'm happy, he seemed happy, maybe other can do better but my net result is free (or even + $20 or so).

good enough !!


----------



## jjaw

rkester said:


> So has the general "hook up our customers with a deal" attitude changed now that the new channels are online? If so, has it changed for the better?


Called today

1st call - $299.00

2nd call - $199.00

3rd call :1st HR20 "free" + 19.95 shipping 
2nd $99.00 + $10 off bill next 12 months & Showtime free for 6 months

Good enough. I'm happy

They also said I could keep old HD Tivos (leased). Anyone else had to send theirs back or do you really get to keep them. Just curious seemed to good to be true.


----------



## MrBigglesworth

My first call was $299, flat, no other discounts.

Ugh.

I paid $899 for my HR10-250 willingly and in less than 3 years it has been obsoleted, and the wife is FURIOUS.

I would be willing to pay up to $100 for a new box, the less the better, but $299 isnt going to happen.

I will try again as time goes on.


----------



## milominderbinder

JohnB1000 said:


> I just got a decent deal.
> 
> Called, asked for "Cancel" Got a guy, asked him what the best deal is for a new HR20 (I already have one HR20)
> 
> *He offered $199*
> I asked if that's the best he can do
> *$199 with $10 per month discount for 12 months*
> Is that the best ? I'd hate to hear a neighbor got better ?
> *OK $99 , free S&H + $10 per month off for 12 months*
> 
> Installation is tomorrow, Thursday AM, no discussion of replacing a receiver, new two year commitment.
> 
> I'm happy, he seemed happy, maybe other can do better but my net result is free (or even + $20 or so).
> 
> good enough !!


John,

That's great! You came up with such good wording that I included it into Step 5. Each step came from users like you, constantly honing the steps.

Here are the updated steps: Get a Great Deal on an HR20

That was great advice. Plus it works no matter what price or credits they offer.

Thank you, John!

- Craig


----------



## eddyj

I called yesterday. Was first quoted $99 with no commitment, but it turned out that did not really exist.

Ended up with:

$19 for the box (Shipping only)
1 year free HD fee
1 yr free DVR fee. 
Keeping my old boxes.

2 year commitment. Install of new dish next week.


----------



## MrBigglesworth

Completing second call now.

$99, and I agreed.

$99 isnt a bad price for an upgrade such as this. As he was finalizing the order he said to hold on, he came back, "Sir since you have been with us for so long, Im going to waive the $99 price and just charge $19.95 handling /installation.

HELL YEAH!!!

Update, keep old box
$10 discount for 12 months monthly.


----------



## milominderbinder

eddyj said:


> I called yesterday. Was first quoted $99 with no commitment, but it turned out that did not really exist.
> 
> Ended up with:
> 
> $19 for the box (Shipping only)
> 1 year free HD fee
> 1 yr free DVR fee.
> Keeping my old boxes.
> 
> 2 year commitment. Install of new dish next week.


I so stand corrected. My apologies!

Eddy, jjaw, & MrBigglesworth, I just would not have believed that this would still be possible after the HD launch.

Good Job!

I still do not want to build up hopes that everyone can do so well. I bet you each had a very high Hearts rating.

- Craig


----------



## eddyj

milominderbinder said:


> I still do not want to build up hopes that everyone can do so well. I bet you each had a very high Hearts rating.


Yes, everyone says I have a big heart. 

But I suspect this is not what you meant.  I assume that is some kind of internal customer rating? What is it based on (or is that a deep dark secret)?


----------



## jjaw

milominderbinder said:


> I so stand corrected. My apologies!
> 
> Eddy, jjaw, & MrBigglesworth, I just would not have believed that this would still be possible after the HD launch.
> 
> Good Job!
> 
> I still do not want to build up hopes that everyone can do so well. I bet you each had a very high Hearts rating.
> 
> - Craig


Custom since 1998 - unforunately spend $100 - 120 a month. So maybe they threw me a bone


----------



## milominderbinder

eddyj said:


> Yes, everyone says I have a big heart.
> 
> But I suspect this is not what you meant.  I assume that is some kind of internal customer rating? What is it based on (or is that a deep dark secret)?


_The deal you will get depends on your "Hearts" rating that factors in payment history, automatic payments, protection plan, PPV, tenure, current hardware, commitment renewal, sports packages, etc. There is no such thing as an "A List," just 1 to 5 Hearts. If you are 5 Hearts, you have the winning hand._

From: Get a Great Deal on an HR20.

- Craig


----------



## timatraw

Long time autopay customer. I called in the morning last Wednesday. Spoke to a (female) CSR in retention and was polite. Went through the 8 point list. She played dumb on the "heart" list. While working thru the list I told her I heard better deals from "friends" than the one she offered and had better deals from Verizon FIOS. She didn't seem to care and responded with: "When do you want to cancel?". I said "right now" so she scheduled a cancel date for 9-29. I came home last night (Wed 9-26 9PM EST) and my D* was cancelled! Called back and spoke to a male "CJ" and pleaded my case. He offered me the HR20 upgrade free with free shipping. I wanted another HD receiver to replace a second one. He said "$99" and I asked for additional credits such as free HD. He said that wasn't available anymore. He also aid he was unable (not willing?) to give additional credits. I took the deal and am scheduled for install this Saturday. I'll be honest- Im not happy with the deal. Do you think I should call back or is this the final offer?
I do have some thoughts- one is I have had better results with a male CSR (call me sexist) and the other is I have had better results speaking with someone later in the evening rather than during the day.


----------



## pendragn

timatraw said:


> I do have some thoughts- one is I have had better results with a male CSR (call me sexist) and the other is I have had better results speaking with someone later in the evening rather than during the day.


Sex has nothing to do with it. The first time I called I got "Darrell" and the best he would offer me was $99. I called back two hours later and got "Rhonda" and she offered me the $19 deal. I think it's completely random.

tk


----------



## mspalacios

Just called and got 2 HD20 DVRs, 1 for $19.95 s/h+tax and the other for $99.00+$19.95 s/h+tax. Installation included, 1 year of HD package via credits and 6 mo. of the movie packages credited. 

Not bad from what I've been able to read here. Install is 1 month, though. I'll keep harassing them to move me up!!

On my order details I have:
Swap ReplaceImplied DVR IRD $0

They're not expecting me to release my HDTivo, do they?


----------



## scott.lodge

Called in this morning trying to get the upgrade and was offered $199 with a $10 credit for 6 months. Spent 45 minutes on the phone talking about how they could make a better offer, how they had messed up my bill, and about canceling and going to Dish. No Deal. Called back an hour later and the first thing that the rep did was offer it to me for the $19 shipping and handling fee. It really is all about the CSR that you get.


----------



## norm807

timatraw, I think you got a fair deal. The fact that you got the receiver and the free shipping is about average for deals. If you look back at most of the posts. I think the programming discount and free additional boxes are an exception, not the rule. I also agree with pendragn, sex has nothing to do with it. When I first go my HR10-250, I struck out with a male CRS, but got it for $19 with a female rep. Then this time around, I got my deal with a male rep. The only common thing was I called later at night both times (after 9 central time), but I doubt that has anything to do with it.


----------



## norm807

mspalacios said:


> They're not expecting me to release my HDTivo, do they?


I hope not, because that is what they said for me that it was a swap, but just before I hung up, the rep said something about talking to the installer about keeping it. It was late and I didn't ask him to clearify.


----------



## milominderbinder

pendragn said:


> Sex has nothing to do with it. The first time I called I got "Darrell" and the best he would offer me was $99. I called back two hours later and got "Rhonda" and she offered me the $19 deal. I think it's completely random.
> 
> tk


TK,

Great job. I do think that it is completely random. I amplified this point in the

Get a Great Deal on an HR20

It now also stresses not to wait for the first CSR to write up in her justification for not giving you the deal.

Thanks for the feedback. You are dialing for dollars.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

mspalacios said:


> Just called and got 2 HD20 DVRs, 1 for $19.95 s/h+tax and the other for $99.00+$19.95 s/h+tax. Installation included, 1 year of HD package via credits and 6 mo. of the movie packages credited.
> 
> Not bad from what I've been able to read here. Install is 1 month, though. I'll keep harassing them to move me up!!
> 
> On my order details I have:
> Swap ReplaceImplied DVR IRD $0
> 
> They're not expecting me to release my HDTivo, do they?


Call them back to confirm that you are keeping the HR10. The goal is to get the best of both worlds, TiVO and the new HD channels, double the tuners, double the storage.

As to moving up your delivery date... No need to harass them!

Just go to steps 9-12. Check the link to change your installation date several times a day. I guarantee they will get a cancellation at some point. Just be there to grab it.

Also please double check steps 8 and 9 to make sure what receiver you are getting. There is no HD20. Make sure you don't get stuck with an H20. You want an HR20. You can check online at that link in step 9.

- Craig


----------



## F34R

I just called and said "Cancel Service" when the automated system asked what I needed to do.

Let me throw in a little history for you first.

About a month and a half ago, I tried to pay my bill online. Not realizing the NFLST was an auto-renew type subscription (that was the first actual extra sports package I bought) from last year, I was surprised to see the charge on my bill. I looked back at my bill, and there was another charge for it the previous month. This isn't something I noticed because I knew my bill would be higher due to ordering the PPV UFCs. Anyways, I tried to cancel the charge online, it said it wouldn't. So I called the customer service, and they told me they couldn't remove the $100 worth of charges until the balance was paid in full. Then they would issue me a credit for the two charges, and cancel the NFLST. I told them that I had the $212 of with I owed them, but I would not pay for the other stuff. They again refused to take it off my bill. So I let them suspend my service. 

A month and a half went by, and I get a call from a collections agent. Within 10 minutes, she had my bill down to $148. I paid that, and my service was reinstated almost instantaneously. I asked her why she was able to help me and DTV wasn't. She said she was with DTV, just a different "department".

Anyways.... on to today.

I called and asked for the new upgrades for the new HD channels. The regular customer service lady told me it would cost me $300 up front. This is despite what I was told when I first went HD in November of last year. The CSR told me then that they would be upgrading their systems over the next year, and I'd be able to upgrade at that time for free.

So, I hang up, mostly because I was so pissed. I called back a few mins later after looking into Dish. I told the auto system "cancel service". I spoke with a seemingly nice young lady, who really seemed to want to know why I wanted to cancel. I explained all the info in the above paragraph. She apologized and told me that they couldn't discount the new HD DVR, but WOULD put a $30 credit on my bill after the new receiver had been activated. I told her I would discuss it with my wife, and call back later today.

Grrr.... I refuse to pay that much money when it seems that it IS available for free, or close to it. I've been with DTV since it was actually Primestar, and have always had more than just the basic service.


----------



## MrBigglesworth

For me they call it a swap, but I confirmed that they will let me keep mine. I paid for it outright after all. Ill be moving mine to the bedroom.

Also, whats the diff on the HR20-100 and HR20-700, any way to know which one I will get?

I also have a Harmony remote, I loaded the software up to check to see and they do have the codes for the HR20 for my uni remote! woohoo!


----------



## desulliv

mspalacios said:


> Just called and got 2 HD20 DVRs, 1 for $19.95 s/h+tax and the other for $99.00+$19.95 s/h+tax. Installation included, 1 year of HD package via credits and 6 mo. of the movie packages credited.
> 
> Not bad from what I've been able to read here. Install is 1 month, though. I'll keep harassing them to move me up!!
> 
> On my order details I have:
> Swap ReplaceImplied DVR IRD $0
> 
> They're not expecting me to release my HDTivo, do they?


I upgraded two HR10's to two HR20's (no charge, shipping waived) and the order details said "Swap" as well. The installer didn't want the HR-10's and asked if I wanted him to move them to another location, but I had already taken care of that.


----------



## sanjose_mike

Just got off the phone, I had 5 hearts (but he wasn't supposed to tell me that). Got the $19 deal with no change in my monthly bill= $199 for the HR20 and the guy had $200 "discretionary credit" to play with based on my rating. I get to put my HR10 in the bedroom and he scheduled it for tomorrow 8am. woohooo BTW he said hearts was based on time of service, monthly bill, how many times you call, and how many times you ask for discounts.


----------



## W3SYT

I tried two people last night. One this morning said no more discounts due to high demand. $299, no thanks.


----------



## rkester

The hearts rating is so loose I can't believe it's useful.

I've been with them for 11 years. But, I've also had 60%+ in late payments, and had my service shut off at least 10-15 times for non-payment. Yet I am 5 hearts.


----------



## Anubys

rkester said:


> The hearts rating is so loose I can't believe it's useful.
> 
> I've been with them for 11 years. But, I've also had 60%+ in late payments, and had my service shut off at least 10-15 times for non-payment. Yet I am 5 hearts.


they're just saying that so you'd pay up


----------



## milominderbinder

W3SYT said:


> I tried two people last night. One this morning said no more discounts due to high demand. $299, no thanks.


Robert,

Are you sayig "Cancel" at the prompt? How many Hearts are you? How many months did they say?

Are you following the script, really word-for-word?

Don't give up. Calll again.

- Craig


----------



## ebonovic

FYI: I have heard from SEVERAL sources..

That the "upgrade" specials, have been put on hold... in definently.

It might not even matter, if you DO follow the script word-for-word...
In the last 24 hours, they have changed their "upgrade" pricing...


----------



## JoeTiVo

Glad I made the move early to get my two HR20s and didn't procrastinate. I had a feeling it wouldn't last forever.


----------



## annenoe

Just finalized the $19.95 deal. Called 1-800-531-5000 and said "cancel" at prompt. When I got the CSR, I was polite and patient. Asked what it would take to get the new HD.

She started at $299, went to $199, then $100, then $19.95 - took no more than 60 seconds and all I did was ask nicely, "You know, I'm a long time customer and I spend a lot of money with you guys every month [our current bill is $123/month] and are you sure you don't have something better?"

Will also add a new multi-switch (I have 4 lines feeding 4 receivers right now) and 2 more lines to get dual tuner capacity on my HR10 and the upcoming HR20) in that $19.95 deal.

All I had to add to my bill is the $9.99 monthly HD access.

So, for around $133 a month, I have 2 SD receivers hooked to SD tivos, an HR10 with very good OTA and dual tuners, and HR20 with dual tuners (and OTA I'm assuming), Setanta Sports, HD, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax and Protection Plan. I'm on an old, no longer offered monthly plan and they let me keep it.

I had a *very* good CSR.


----------



## sbelmont

ebonovic said:


> FYI: I have heard from SEVERAL sources..
> 
> That the "upgrade" specials, have been put on hold... in definently.
> 
> It might not even matter, if you DO follow the script word-for-word...
> In the last 24 hours, they have changed their "upgrade" pricing...


Earl-

What about those of us who have put off upgrading due to OTA issues? At my house an indoor antenna doesn't work and and the only outdoor antenna I am allowed is the clip on, which works. Running additional cable throughout the house is not an easy task and I have the company that did the wiring of the audio/visual/computer network when I built the house looking into it. This company is also an authorized D* installer. I can't give up the HD locals and I am already going to have to spend dollars that I know D* wouldn't chip in for to re-wire the house.

You can tell your contacts right now that this is not good customer service. They need to treat all customers the same.


----------



## ebonovic

sbelmont said:


> Earl-
> 
> What about those of us who have put off upgrading due to OTA issues? At my house an indoor antenna doesn't work and and the only outdoor antenna I am allowed is the clip on, which works. Running additional cable throughout the house is not an easy task and I have the company that did the wiring of the audio/visual/computer network when I built the house looking into it. This company is also an authorized D* installer. I can't give up the HD locals and I am already going to have to spend dollars that I know D* wouldn't chip in for to re-wire the house.
> 
> You can tell your contacts right now that this is not good customer service. They need to treat all customers the same.


Before you do anything that is "big bucks"... wait till the SWM is released to the general public....


----------



## rgswff2

ebonovic said:


> Before you do anything that is "big bucks"... wait till the SWM is released to the general public....


Is there any indication of when this might happen?


----------



## DDayDawg

ebonovic said:


> FYI: I have heard from SEVERAL sources..
> 
> That the "upgrade" specials, have been put on hold... in definently.
> 
> It might not even matter, if you DO follow the script word-for-word...
> In the last 24 hours, they have changed their "upgrade" pricing...


This would really surprise me because the only outcome I can see from DirecTV NOT getting all of the HR10-250 owners off those boxes is a Class Action lawsuit. I would put the success of that fairly low but it would be a marketing nightmare. If they tried to move the existing HD channels to MPEG-4 then the CA would be a slam dunk.

I just don't see what DirecTV loses from taking care of us at this point.


----------



## Bob_Newhart

I just called and was only able to get the $199 offer, even with the 4 receivers I currently have and the $115 per month per month in programming. I was very polite and kept asking if there wasn't something more he could do for me, but he said no.

Should I keep trying and hope I get another CSR or am I SOL? I also made a point of saying that if I got the new DVR then I would be subscribing to more channels (Starz and Cinemax) since they'd have HD content.

No love for me.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Bob_Newhart said:


> I just called and was only able to get the $199 offer, even with the 4 receivers I currently have and the $115 per month per month in programming. I was very polite and kept asking if there wasn't something more he could do for me, but he said no.
> 
> Should I keep trying and hope I get another CSR or am I SOL? I also made a point of saying that if I got the new DVR then I would be subscribing to more channels (Starz and Cinemax) since they'd have HD content.
> 
> No love for me.


maybe your dry humor didn't work - I'd give it a few more tries


----------



## milominderbinder

Bob_Newhart said:


> I just called and was only able to get the $199 offer, even with the 4 receivers I currently have and the $115 per month per month in programming. I was very polite and kept asking if there wasn't something more he could do for me, but he said no.
> 
> Should I keep trying and hope I get another CSR or am I SOL? I also made a point of saying that if I got the new DVR then I would be subscribing to more channels (Starz and Cinemax) since they'd have HD content.
> 
> No love for me.


You are dialling for dollars. Try again right away. It sounds like you need to get the best deal you can tonight.

Follow the script. As it says, expect to call several times.

- Craig


----------



## JohnB1000

ebonovic said:


> FYI: I have heard from SEVERAL sources..
> 
> That the "upgrade" specials, have been put on hold... in definently.
> 
> It might not even matter, if you DO follow the script word-for-word...
> In the last 24 hours, they have changed their "upgrade" pricing...


I upgraded in the last 24 hours and got a good deal.


----------



## mikehome

I got 2 HR 20's for free. Took 3 calls but it was worth the 45 minutes.


----------



## sbelmont

rgswff2 said:


> Is there any indication of when this might happen?


My question exactly, Earl. And what kind of upgrade are they going to offer me if I wait until then?


----------



## adonoho

Folks, 

Count me confused. 

I have an HR10-250 and we pay for the small number of HD channels. Frankly though, we only really record HD OTA. I'm expecting that, should DTV ever remove the HD channels on the current satellites, I can still use the HR10 as a normal DTiVo with HD OTA. Does this make sense? Frankly, we are very happy with the system and see no reason to change. (Yes, I know I don't get to see all of that HD goodness but I always have the World of Warcraft... ;-) 

Of course, I have no idea what is going to happen in Feb. 2009 when all of the broadcast folks need to move to digital. Does that mean my DTiVo box is 'turned off' then? (I'm not expecting it to but it is one of those milestones...) Of course, it would also mean that DTV is also turning off every other DTV box that can't be upgraded. So I suspect that I'm safe. 

Overall, I've had this box for 2+ years and I expect it to last a good 4 more years. I see no reason to upgrade. Am I going to be forced to? 

Any thoughts? 

Andrew


----------



## dswallow

adonoho said:


> Folks,
> 
> Count me confused.
> 
> I have an HR10-250 and we pay for the small number of HD channels. Frankly though, we only really record HD OTA. I'm expecting that, should DTV ever remove the HD channels on the current satellites, I can still use the HR10 as a normal DTiVo with HD OTA. Does this make sense? Frankly, we are very happy with the system and see no reason to change. (Yes, I know I don't get to see all of that HD goodness but I always have the World of Warcraft... ;-)
> 
> Of course, I have no idea what is going to happen in Feb. 2009 when all of the broadcast folks need to move to digital. Does that mean my DTiVo box is 'turned off' then? (I'm not expecting it to but it is one of those milestones...) Of course, it would also mean that DTV is also turning off every other DTV box that can't be upgraded. So I suspect that I'm safe.
> 
> Overall, I've had this box for 2+ years and I expect it to last a good 4 more years. I see no reason to upgrade. Am I going to be forced to?
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Andrew


You will absolutely be able to continue using the HR10-250 and will not be forced to upgrade to the HR20 or any other receiver. You simply won't be able to receive any MPEG-4 or Ka-band content using the HR10-250.


----------



## rgswff2

Is anyone else worried? milominderbinder hasn't posted in this thread in over 3 hours!!! I hope he is ok.


----------



## ebonovic

sbelmont said:


> My question exactly, Earl. And what kind of upgrade are they going to offer me if I wait until then?


Zero Idea... I have not heard of what/when the next "upgrade" offereing may be.

I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't one till the new year... or till about the point the MPEG-2's are going to be turned off.


----------



## JRAllas

adonoho said:


> I see no reason to upgrade. Am I going to be forced to?
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Andrew


I'm in the same boat as you. Most of the HD content I record is from my local OTA's. Occasionally I record HD content from the MPEG2 HD channels, but those same shows are also available in SD. I have nothing to gain by getting rid of my HR10-250, unless DirecTV finally realizes what we need is a Tivo powered HD DVR/Receiver. My DirecTivos have spoilded the hell out of me and I don't want to step down to an HR20.


----------



## fasTLane

JRAllas said:


> ...My DirecTivos have spoilded the hell out of me and I don't want to step down to an HR20.


Same here. 
On another note; if the recent decline in mpeg2 picture quality does not improve in the next week or so I will drop their "HD" package and view OTA-HD thru DirecTivo. Oddly, this problem seems to have started about the same time the new mpeg4's came available.

Quite infuriating.


----------



## Rigelian

ebonovic said:


> FYI: I have heard from SEVERAL sources..
> 
> That the "upgrade" specials, have been put on hold... in definently.
> 
> It might not even matter, if you DO follow the script word-for-word...
> In the last 24 hours, they have changed their "upgrade" pricing...


I guess rather than putting people on increasingly lengthening installation schedules, D* has decided to manage demand by effectively using price. Sounds like the sudden demand for the HR20s has outstripped D* ability to deliver in the short run. I suspect that after they serve people in the current pipeline, deals may come again, but then again maybe not if they continue to get customers demanding to switch at the higher price. Of course some people might simply bail rather than pay the price, but if the number of people on the margin is small...D* might not care.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

I checked my account yesterday online and I was surprised to see I had 10 receivers listed under my equipment 

Called to see what was up and learned that I had 5 receivers listed that were not mine - apparently someone either upgraded or started new service and they (the day before) added them on my account - along with some notes that NFL season ticket wasn't coming in 

Easy enough to fix (of course the other party would come home to find their TV's not working ) I asked what I could do to limit unauthorized access to my account and I was told I could add a password - so I did just that and thinking about it, I would rather give them a password than have to go through all the verifications they ask.


----------



## milominderbinder

rgswff2 said:


> Is anyone else worried? milominderbinder hasn't posted in this thread in over 3 hours!!! I hope he is ok.


Now that's funny!

No one was in this thread was working on getting deals so I was doing some tech work in other threads.

As of today, it seems that only the HR10 owners _might _ be able to still get the HR20 for $99 or less.

It sounds like for many subscribers the CSR's computer simply will not allow a $99 or lower price on the HR20. It is more typically $199 as of yesterday.

Don't let that scare you. We are still hearing of Retention giving months of HD programming (up to $120), other credits (up to $60), free HBO, Showtime, or Starz, etc.

We are seeing in other threads that installation times are out to 3-4 weeks and even November in parts of the country. Use the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 to watch for opportunities to move your date up.

Also, you do not have to give back your TiVo. The whole point is to add to your TiVo, not replace it. You can have twice the tuners and twice the storage. Just ask to have it "moved". You can keep it in the same room or move it to another room.

Just follow the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips.

Someone also found out yesterday that the Welcome Back $100 credit program has been suspended. The referral program is still valid though.

Good Luck today!

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

JRAllas said:


> I'm in the same boat as you. Most of the HD content I record is from my local OTA's. Occasionally I record HD content from the MPEG2 HD channels, but those same shows are also available in SD. I have nothing to gain by getting rid of my HR10-250, unless DirecTV finally realizes what we need is a Tivo powered HD DVR/Receiver. My DirecTivos have spoilded the hell out of me and I don't want to step down to an HR20.


You are in Crest Hill? That is only a few miles from my office!

Is your avatar a photo of you racing at Route 66?

- Craig


----------



## JohnB1000

I got installation within 12 hours in the SF Bay Area this week


----------



## buckeye1010

If I currently have the 5 LNB dish for my HR10-250, will that work with the HR20?


----------



## fredflint

I got the deal for $19.95 this morning. I didn't even have to threaten cancellation. I just asked the CSR to explain about the equipment required to view the new channels. She started off at $299, then immediately dropped it to $99. I told her I wasn't interested.....she then "checked" to see if I qualified for a bigger discount....and came back with the $19.95 s/h offer. I accepted, but I couldn't get any decent programming discounts. I didn't want free Cinemax or Showtime. Installation is scheduled for 10/12, but I could have gotten 10/02 if I really wanted it. Anyway, the CSR kept pressing me to tell her whether I was replacing or adding equipment. When I suggested I was adding equipment, she tried to hit me with a $49.95 moving fee. I then told her I would be replacing...


----------



## bjam69

buckeye1010 said:


> If I currently have the 5 LNB dish for my HR10-250, will that work with the HR20?


THe 5 LNB is the dish you need in order to get all the new HD programming. If you have a 5LNB already, then your dish is fine. If you need a multiswitch when you change, that is the time to bargain for one though!


----------



## dleithaus

I started reading all of these comments yesterday trying to figure out what to do with my HR10-250 and the new HD channels. A couple of emails to Direct TV were uneventful... upgrade if you want the channels... go online to see the current offering. $299. Told them I would call. 

Took three different people, and finally ended up in "retention". I was nice to all of them, but sticking with the only point... when I purchased my HR10-250 I was told that when DTV went to MPEG-4 and the "Fox" receivers I would get a free update. 

When I finally got to "retention" the guy knew exactly what I was talking about... he even mentioned the fact that a Direct TV VP had said the same thing online and in public more than once. He lamented that in August he had been able to do the deal for easily and for free, especially with long term DTV customers.... and now it was more confusing. 

The bottom line for me... is that the receiver was $199. (me--who started with DTV in 1994 and have had the full line up for 8 years now, including HD!). THEN, They gave me a discount of $100, then 12 months of discounted service ($10/month). The math... $199-$100-$120.... -$20. More than free. 

Then I was floored by the date he provided for installation. Saturday (that would be tomorrow, 9-29). "Really, Saturday... this weekend?! That's great." I said. We had a great chat about all sorts of other things while he did things in the background, and I was not even tired or frustrated after spending 40 minutes on the phone. Got a call this morning confirming my appointment.

It is too bad that Direct TV does not realize that these inconsistencies in policy cost them money and time.... and probably customers. They should have sent out a letter... "we are upgrading your receiver as we agreed. Please contact us at this number for details and to set up an installation time." Instead we have this post of over 500 emails and tens of thousands of views (!)... with many different Direct TV responses to the exact same issue. Same issue issues demand the exact same response to that issue. All I want as a customer of any company is consistency. In the end, Direct TV has come through for me.. and I appreciate it.

My postscript... I can only hope that this new receiver is closer to the original Microsoft Ultimate TV than the Tivo ever was for me. Apparently, we cannot get married to any one format or interface, even if we wanted to. Ultimate TV had a great interface, and after 2 years of using Tivo, I still miss things that Ultimate got right and Tivo still doesn't have. With that, Tivo has been a solid interface, just not exactly what I prefer....


----------



## JohnB1000

dleithaus, I think you might have got the exact same guy as me


----------



## desulliv

Jebberwocky! said:


> . . . I would rather give them a password than have to go through all the verifications they ask.


You'll need to do both.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

desulliv said:


> You'll need to do both.


Bastards!

Oh well, at least I won't have to worry about strange activity on my account.

At lunch a guy was telling me how he went home last night and several premium channels were off - "I cancelled them" his wife tells he when he wondered outloud what happened.


----------



## pinballfan

I am out of contract (by many years), have a old Sony HD-100, an HR10-250, and several SD DirecTivos....

Called a couple days ago and talked to a regular CSR. Only deal available was $199 for a single HR20.

Called today, said I wanted to cancel... After going around and around for a while I ended up with a $99 upgrade fee offset partially by 2 months of free HBO & Showtime. Works out to $27 for the upgrade. She offered the $99 deal pretty fast, but it took a while to get the other discounts.

Interestingly, she had to jump through some hoops to avoid upgrading the Sony HD-100. Apparently her system insisted on upgrading both boxes ($99 each). She ended up getting a manager to "cancel" the upgrade on the Sony.

Oh yeah, and after this I'll be under a 2 year contract...


----------



## willardcpa

Jebberwocky! said:


> Bastards!....


What good is a password if you're going to tell us all what it is??


----------



## tivoreno

Finally got off my butt and called this evening thinking I waited too long, but what the heck...

Got to retention and asked to swap out my HD DVR. I was given the $199 price and said that wasn't gonna work for me. At first she wasn't offerring anything else, saying all the deals expired on the 24th. When I started to say goodby, she then offered to give me a $100 credit to "help offset the cost". I refused and asked if that was all she could do. She then came around with free HD access for 12 months. I agreed to that, but that's not the end of it. When she added the receiver to my account, it came up at no cost, not even shipping. Cool! She then apolagized that because of that she couldn't give me the $100 credit, but she would still give me free HD for a year. Installation on Oct 3rd.

Edit: I was even told to keep my HR10-250 and even keep it active if I wanted.


----------



## keith2424

hey lets play a gmae...lets see who can rip off D** the best and see how we can look our kids in the eyes and say we are honest!


----------



## keith2424

look at it this way, when you go to sears can you tell the salesperson to offset the cost of the new hd tv can you throw in the hd dvd player free and give me 10 check each month for a year? heck no they would laugh at you get real why try to screw d** just live with it. retention will not give into you just because you are threatening ti disconect your service they dont have to because they have the most hd available.just a thought


----------



## keith2424

true story the hr10-250 is inferior to the hr-20 the new dvrs are the best machine on the market today just live with it


----------



## RS4

keith2424 said:


> true story the hr10-250 is inferior to the hr-20 the new dvrs are the best machine on the market today just live with it


That may be your opinion, but it is not shared by a lot of Tivo users - in fact quite the opposite. Look at all of the threads of people stating they are using the HR20, but would go back to Tivo in a snap if it could get the mpeg4. Look at all of the suggestions for hanging on to the Tivo and let it record everything but mpeg4 - why, because a lot of these folks prefer the Tivo.


----------



## RS4

keith2424 said:


> hey lets play a gmae...lets see who can rip off D** the best and see how we can look our kids in the eyes and say we are honest!


The people being ripped off are the customers. They are being forced into 2-year commitments and using equipment that a majority of them don't like, all for the guise of getting HD channels.

DirecTV is not being forced to accept these 'deals'. Instead they are being sneaky about it. Instead of just upgrading folks who have the existing products, they hire a bunch of used card salesmen to say 'what it will it take me to do for you to take home this HR20, today? $299 - oh too high, tell ya what I'm gonna do, $199 today only - oh not good enough, hang on - ok, just had a talk with my manager, because you've been such a good customer, tell ya what I'm gonna do - 19.95 plus tax. What, still not good enough, oh ok - we'll install it tomorrow for free"


----------



## wam319

To start off: I have and HR10-250 and a DSR6000. Love my Tivo.

I got a hold of retention yesterday. Told them I was going to move to cable so that I could get the new cable-ready Tivo's after my College Game Day package expired, and told them that I was not really interested in stepping down to the HR20. They would only offer HR20 for $199 and a 2-year committment. I told them no thanks, I'd rather spend the money on the Tivo gear for cable. The rep then looked up my "good standing" with Directv and offered me the HR20 for $99 (and the 2 year committment). Once again, I declined.

I called back about a half hour later and got a different rep. I told him the same things as above. Then I also told them that I had read some things in the DBSTALK and Tivo Community forums that there were some "deals" going on, and that I would consider replacing my DSR6000 with the HR20 and do a side by side comparison to evaluate the differences first hand. The rep said right away "here's the deal: $20 shipping plus tax for an HR20, but you have to go with the 2 year commitment". I told him the 2 years would be a deal breaker. He said there's no choice, but he'd put a note in my account and give me 5 days to think about it. The rep's name was Bradley, really good guy to deal with, no BS and very friendly. I'm thinking of calling back and asking for a supervisor to tell him how good Bradley was, and them tell him that I probably won't take the offer. We'll see if I can get him to wave or reduce the 2 year commitment. Kind of a long shot, but what the heck...


----------



## tivoreno

keith2424 said:


> hey lets play a gmae...


gmae on! I just let my kid read your first 3 posts. He said "how dumb!" :up:



keith2424 said:


> ...retention will not give into you...


Do you pay sticker price for a car too?  I offered to hang up, just as I would have walked out of Sears. They came back to me on their knees with their offers!



keith2424 said:


> ...the hr10-250 is inferior...


I'll make my own opinion thank you as I use them side-by-side. Somehow I really doubt there is any clear winner. I remember telling people almost 7 years ago that my Tivo was the best gadget I've bought in 20 years. That is still true. I doubt I'll be making that assertion about anything D* produces.


----------



## JohnB1000

keith2424 said:


> hey lets play a gmae...lets see who can rip off D** the best and see how we can look our kids in the eyes and say we are honest!


Don't feed the troll.

By the way, when I bought my TV at Best Buy I got the guy down $1000 in price, he gave me the cables for free and a free 6 month subscription to Netflix.

DirecTV will not sell these units for less than they want to so it's really up to them.


----------



## eddyj

keith2424 said:


> hey lets play a gmae...lets see who can rip off D** the best and see how we can look our kids in the eyes and say we are honest!


This is the funniest thing I have read on this board in years!


----------



## flexpackman

Well after 45 minutes on hold this morning, with the first CSR in retention, and using a slightly modified version of the "Get a Good Deal" post, this was my scenario.

I was already out of contract. I currently have one HR10-250, two SD Directv Tivos, and two HD receivers.

After comparing competitors prices and further negotiations of another 20 minutes, got two HR20 HD-DVR's, 5 LNB Dish, 16 port multiswitch, Installation, and 1 years credit on HD Programming. Get to keep the HR10-250. 

Had to take the 2 year commitment however.

End cost - $21.53 (thats shipping and tax)

Decided to not push luck and took the offer..... 

Checked on-line account and it's all there. 

So their are still offers out there to be realized.

BTW- When have "P's", "Thumbs-Ups", and "Smiley Faces" codings to your account been mentioned along with the "Hearts"????


----------



## milominderbinder

keith2424 said:


> true story the hr10-250 is inferior to the hr-20 the new dvrs are the best machine on the market today just live with it


The HR10 is not inferior. The HR10 and HR20 each have their own strengths and proponents.

As to ripping off DIRECTV, it's not going to happen. As they say in their quarterly conference calls, their Hearts pricing model helps them retain the most profitable customers. Their churn is at an all-time best level.

Keith, you have every right to pay more for TV. You can also pay full price for a car. That is your right.

When your Internet, cell, local, and long distance prices rise you do not have to call.

You have every right to pay higher prices. Companies love clients who will pay extra.

Companies use pricing models. They don't give their best rates unless the client asks. And even then they are very selective.

As we keep hearing, the DIRECTV "Hearts" model can lock the CSR out from offering a discount as well. One person posted that their account had been closed for non-pay and turned over to collections with a partial account write-off. They were not offered a discount.

A service provider will not automatically give their best price. That is not a rip-off.

A customer may be able to call and negotiate a better price. That is not a rip-off either.

The Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips are just an accumulation of the successes and failures of hundreds of users.

In the words of Tony Soprano, "It's jes bidness."

- Craig


----------



## bilbomims

My install was scheduled today on the 99 dollar offer. Installer never showed or called. Turns out that someone was supposed to call and reschedule because they did not have the hr20. Called directv with lots of ammo to get a better deal. Now its free with Tuesday install and keeping my hr10.


----------



## Cody21

I had a scheduled install on Saturday -- I guess I was one of the luckier ones ... He actually SHOWED up ... but only after I waited nearly 7 hours for him to show. At the recommendation on this forum, I requested a "morning" appt. So my window was 8-noon. He didn't actually arrive until 2:30 PM . The install itself went fairly well - he was able to utilize existing RG6 cables as well as the Pole that my older 3-LNB dish was attached to. But once everything was hooked up, we had a hell of a time getting the service ACTIVATED. Seems that D* had the Receiver numbers and the Access Card numbers hosed over somehow. It took nearly an hour getting that mess all straightened out. Anyway, all hooked up and working now... So time to move over to the DBSTALK forum.. It's been a great time here. Thanks for everyone's help over the years.


----------



## milominderbinder

bilbomims said:


> My install was scheduled today on the 99 dollar offer. Installer never showed or called. Turns out that someone was supposed to call and reschedule because they did not have the hr20. Called directv with lots of ammo to get a better deal. Now its free with Tuesday install and keeping my hr10.


Way to go!

Anytime DIRECTV blows you off call back to retention and get a $100 credit to your account, just like you did!

You are on step 8 of the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips.

Please do not skip the final steps!

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

Cody21 said:


> I had a scheduled install on Saturday -- I guess I was one of the luckier ones ... He actually SHOWED up ... but only after I waited nearly 7 hours for him to show. At the recommendation on this forum, I requested a "morning" appt...So time to move over to the DBSTALK forum.. It's been a great time here. Thanks for everyone's help over the years.


Keep your TiVo!

Keep coming here for help! I have an HR20 and a TiVo as do so many who will help you at TiVoCommunity.

Keep your TiVo to have twice the tuners and twice the storage!

Keep your TiVo as backup until you are completely comfortable with your new DVR.

Second, this is one reason the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips say to ask for a morning appointment: the difference between a late install and a no-show.

- Craig


----------



## dleithaus

My HR20 upgrade was delayed, but the tech called and let me know he would be running late, and if by chance he was really late, he would come by tomorrow. It ended up being "tomorrow"... that is, today. 

The new dish was installed and everything seemed fine, cept like a couple others, it took a while for the extra HD channels to come on with DTV's help. The HD's I had were there, the extras were not. 

Then when the tech left... my "off satellite" local antenna channels spontaneously disappeared. Nothing being acquired off the local antenna. A couple resets and pulling coax wires out did nothing. I HAD my local digital broadcasts on both receivers (HR-10 and HR20) then I did not. 

Oh, and for some reason the HDMI running into my DVI port on my 3 year old Samsung DLP that worked perfectly with the HR-10, did not like my HR-20 with a blue color cast very obvious. Has to be a problem with the HDMI comms on the Samsung HDTV ... there is no HDMI port on my HDTV, only the DVI port that the previous HR-10 had no problem with... So I am using the component connections which work perfectly. Whatever.... Someone is coming back out tomorrow, I did not have the heart to get the same tech back on a Sunday... his day off... to figure out the local channel issue. It is somewhat irritating....

And, for the TIVO interface.. I can tell you just from a couple of hours of playing with searching, setting up shows... etc... I definitely prefer the TIVO interface. I suppose I will get used to the new one.


----------



## Wangatang

Called up earlier today and got an HR20 for 99 + 5LNB install. Install cheduled for the 10th :up:


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> Keep your TiVo!
> 
> Keep your TiVo to have twice the tuners and twice the storage!
> 
> Keep your TiVo as backup until you are completely comfortable with your new DVR.
> 
> - Craig


Yeah... keep your Tivo... reward DirecTV with more money for forcing you into a 2-year product with a second-rate dvr. Bend over... it won't hurt too much

It makes no sense to me that you actually encourage people to spend more money with a product that is not liked by most Tivo users.


----------



## jimb726

RS4 said:


> Yeah... keep your Tivo... reward DirecTV with more money for forcing you into a 2-year product with a second-rate dvr. Bend over... it won't hurt too much
> 
> It makes no sense to me that you actually encourage people to spend more money with a product that is not liked by most Tivo users.


Umm, is there anything he can say that doesnt draw your ire? He directs people to the other website and guys slam him, he tells them to keep their Tivo and he gets slammed, if he says something on the HR20 is working he gets it again. If he points out an issue with a Tivo he gets it yet again. Obviously the person has already made the decision to switch over all he told him to do was to hang on to the HR10. He wasnt encouraging the guy to do anything with a so called second rate product, rather he was simply telling him to keep both units active to have the best of both worlds. It just doesnt make sense.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

put him on ignore and then you don't have to wonder what his agenda is.


----------



## dswallow

Jebberwocky! said:


> put him on ignore and then you don't have to wonder what his agenda is.


Actually then he will have to wonder.


----------



## RS4

jimb726 said:


> Umm, is there anything he can say that doesnt draw your ire? He directs people to the other website and guys slam him, he tells them to keep their Tivo and he gets slammed, if he says something on the HR20 is working he gets it again. If he points out an issue with a Tivo he gets it yet again. Obviously the person has already made the decision to switch over all he told him to do was to hang on to the HR10. He wasnt encouraging the guy to do anything with a so called second rate product, rather he was simply telling him to keep both units active to have the best of both worlds. It just doesnt make sense.


A recent thread on dbstalk asked if people would recommend the HR20 as a replacement for the Tivo. Less then a third of the responders recommended the HR20 as an out-rite replacement. In fact, one-fifth of them said no, don't even get it. Another third said to keep the Tivos for various reasons from insurance to only using the HR20 to record the new HD. That is very indicative of the kinds of information that has been on there for months now. That is by no means any kind of ringing endorsement for the HR20.

What bothers me most about his posts is that he seems to be a salesman for DirecTV. He's encouraging people to sign up for a 2-year commitment and give DirecTV more money by keeping both machines. This in effect is rewarding DirecTV for a product that is not well accepted especially by Tivo users. I believe that Tivo users would get the attention of DirecTV by boycotting the product alltogether.

So in essence, he is encouraging people to tell DirecTV that they will accept and even pay more for a mediocre product. In fact, they agree to use it for at least 2 years or pay for it. That simply does not make sense to me. If people like their Tivos, they need to stand up to the bully that DirecTV has become and say 'I'll pass on it until you have something better'.


----------



## JohnB1000

You make a few good points but your comments such as "mediocre product" seem to reveal your true agenda. To me, and plenty of others, this simply isn't true. I agree there are aspects of it that are not as good as the TIVO but there are also aspects that are better. I also find that people I know who have gotten it who did not own a TIVO are very happy.

I have found milominderbinder to be very helpful and dedicated in trying to get people a good deal on a unit that they need in order to watch the new HD

The two your commitment obsession is also somewhat misleading because you are not committed to two years of your $100 per month package, simply to a $300 fee that reduces as the months progress. 

I believe that your approach to this is very misleading to the reader who is passing by. The units do a decent job that cannot be done by a TIVO and the commitment is not as much of a problem as you make it sound. A bit more balance would make your arguments sound more reasonable.


----------



## LlamaLarry

RS4 said:


> If people like their Tivos, they need to stand up to the bully that DirecTV has become and say 'I'll pass on it until you have something better'.


Sadly in the real world what DirecTV will respond with is "Hey, keep your DirecTiVo, just know that you'll be missing out on an ever increasing number of MPEG4 offerings and your already small number of subs grows more irrelevant every day."

If DirecTV is the bully, then soon DirecTiVo owners of any flavor will be the scrawny kid with glasses not even worth beating up.

FWIW, I have 6 DirecTiVos and none of the DirecTV produced units.


----------



## bonscott87

LlamaLarry said:


> Sadly in the real world what DirecTV will respond with is "Hey, keep your DirecTiVo, just know that you'll be missing out on an ever increasing number of MPEG4 offerings and your already small number of subs grows more irrelevant every day."


Wow, someone that gets it, great post.

It really doesn't matter which is "better", the Tivo unit or the DirecTV powered unit.

What does matter is that when there are 1 million HR20's in service and only 150K HR10s in service, then 150K just doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter now anyway. One just needs to watch the DirecTV presentation to Liberty Media (the new owners) to see that the entire future of the company is built around the HR20/21 and advanced services. Tivo has no role in this and momentum is too strong at this point to stop and reverse direction.

If it fails and falls flat then it will be at least a year or two before that realization takes place and another 1-2 years before another direction is chosen and given to the end users. By then anyone "holding out" for the new HD DirecTivo will have long left DirecTV for the greener pastures of cable or Fios so they can use a Tivo powered unit.


----------



## Sir_winealot

Certainly, the poot is moint  about the HR20 vs HR10 ...we no longer have the luxury of 'choice' if we want the new HD offerings. The HR20 is not a bad unit...in fact, it's really kind've grown on me.

I just want the damn thing to stop missing recordings ...it's been over a year now and with the new fall season beginning, they need to get the thing recording what I tell it to record!


----------



## RS4

bonscott87 said:


> Wow, someone that gets it, great post.
> 
> It really doesn't matter which is "better", the Tivo unit or the DirecTV powered unit.
> 
> What does matter is that when there are 1 million HR20's in service and only 150K HR10s in service, then 150K just doesn't matter anymore. It doesn't matter now anyway. One just needs to watch the DirecTV presentation to Liberty Media (the new owners) to see that the entire future of the company is built around the HR20/21 and advanced services. Tivo has no role in this and momentum is too strong at this point to stop and reverse direction.
> 
> If it fails and falls flat then it will be at least a year or two before that realization takes place and another 1-2 years before another direction is chosen and given to the end users. By then anyone "holding out" for the new HD DirecTivo will have long left DirecTV for the greener pastures of cable or Fios so they can use a Tivo powered unit.


Yes, if that presentation says they're definitely cutting out Tivo, then I will look for another Tivo friendly vendor.

Can you give me a link to this presentation? Thanks

BTW - it does matter to some of us. We prefer the beauty of the Tivo over the supplier of the video signal using a plain box.


----------



## jimb726

RS4 said:


> A recent thread on dbstalk asked if people would recommend the HR20 as a replacement for the Tivo. Less then a third of the responders recommended the HR20 as an out-rite replacement. In fact, one-fifth of them said no, don't even get it. Another third said to keep the Tivos for various reasons from insurance to only using the HR20 to record the new HD. That is very indicative of the kinds of information that has been on there for months now. That is by no means any kind of ringing endorsement for the HR20.
> 
> What bothers me most about his posts is that he seems to be a salesman for DirecTV. He's encouraging people to sign up for a 2-year commitment and give DirecTV more money by keeping both machines. This in effect is rewarding DirecTV for a product that is not well accepted especially by Tivo users. I believe that Tivo users would get the attention of DirecTV by boycotting the product alltogether.
> 
> So in essence, he is encouraging people to tell DirecTV that they will accept and even pay more for a mediocre product. In fact, they agree to use it for at least 2 years or pay for it. That simply does not make sense to me. If people like their Tivos, they need to stand up to the bully that DirecTV has become and say 'I'll pass on it until you have something better'.


I will absolutely agree with you that it isnt a Tivo, and to call it a direct replacement is a disservice to both units, no matter how a person feels about either of them. And while the poll says that 20% of the people would not get it, I wonder how many got it thinking it was a Tivo?
I cannot argue the 2 year commitment as my wife will kill me if I ever left D* because of a couple of channels that she likes so the commitment is moot for me. And I like the Tivo format, just not as passionately as some here. However I feel that perhaps you are overstating the desire of Tivo users to stand up against D*. I think that those people who Tivo has become a way of life have begun to migrate to other providers in order to continue to use that format, figuring wisely, that D* is not going to concede to their desires. 
I remember when Ford came out with the Taurus in 1986, 50% of the people who saw it absolutely hated it, the looks, the style, etc. Ford chose to focus on the 50% who liked it and went on to sell more of those Tauruses for a decade than any other comparable car. I think thats where D* might be at this point, they are going to focus on the people who want to use their service under their terms and they will let those in the minority choose what they are going to do in the future.


----------



## DDayDawg

jimb726 said:


> I will absolutely agree with you that it isnt a Tivo, and to call it a direct replacement is a disservice to both units, no matter how a person feels about either of them. And while the poll says that 20% of the people would not get it, I wonder how many got it thinking it was a Tivo?
> I cannot argue the 2 year commitment as my wife will kill me if I ever left D* because of a couple of channels that she likes so the commitment is moot for me. And I like the Tivo format, just not as passionately as some here. However I feel that perhaps you are overstating the desire of Tivo users to stand up against D*. I think that those people who Tivo has become a way of life have begun to migrate to other providers in order to continue to use that format, figuring wisely, that D* is not going to concede to their desires.
> I remember when Ford came out with the Taurus in 1986, 50% of the people who saw it absolutely hated it, the looks, the style, etc. Ford chose to focus on the 50% who liked it and went on to sell more of those Tauruses for a decade than any other comparable car. I think thats where D* might be at this point, they are going to focus on the people who want to use their service under their terms and they will let those in the minority choose what they are going to do in the future.


Sadly I have to agree with this. As much as I love TiVo (I got one of the first silver Sony TiVos in the old days and have preached the word ever since) they just aren't going to win the war here. I hope they stay in business and anytime I can choose them within my viewing needs I will but as much as I love them I'm not jumping off this DTV HD train. My HR20 should be here tomorrow and I will run both that and the HR10-250 as long as I can, but I just crave the HD.

As much as DirecTV does to piss me off some times I have to admit that their day-to-day service is excellent when compared to Comcast. I have to use Comcast for internet because my company pays for it and dealing with them on any type of support is just hellish.

I really want a real TiVo to work with DirecTV, but I would also really like to have gills because it would be neat to dive without a scuba tank. But neither of those is going to happen so I have to deal with the hand I was dealt. Still sad though, gills would rock.


----------



## bonscott87

RS4 said:


> Yes, if that presentation says they're definitely cutting out Tivo, then I will look for another Tivo friendly vendor.
> 
> Can you give me a link to this presentation? Thanks


I'm surprised you don't keep up with these things since it's these presentations where things like this are discussed and you're so hyped up on this subject.

There have been 3 or 4 finiancial investor calls and the Liberty presentation in the last few weeks. Go to DirecTV's website and click the Investor Relations link at the top for all the latest conference calls and presentations. Tivo isn't mentioned in any of the future plans and in fact all the talk is about how everything will center around the HR20/21 platform for HD and advanced services. Like I pointed out, they are fully invested in this. If it were to fail they will certainly be giving it a couple years to succeed before they bail on it. And then, if Tivo is still a viable option it would be another year or two before a new Tivo based product would emerge. You can always come back at that time should you choose to do so by why "suffer" in the meantime?

We've been trying to tell you this for I don't know how long. The DirecTivo is a great product. It really is. Certainly a leader in it's industry. But the fact remains that DirecTV has gone a different way and holding on to your HR10 for as long as you can just isn't going to change that fact. The 150K or so (if that) HR10 users that don't have at least one MPEG4 box just isn't that big of a number in terms of all the HD subs they have and the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of HR20s out there.

I also take it that you missed the latest Tivo quarterly investor presentation where he said flat out that there are no discussions with DirecTV and no indication that there will be any in the future. His talk 6 months ago where he said that maybe Liberty would talk with them again was as we suspected, just fluff at the time to try to keep the stock price up. This time he admited flatly that there is nothing going on between Tivo and DirecTV in terms of new products, no talks at all and he didn't see anything going in that direction in the future.



> BTW - it does matter to some of us. We prefer the beauty of the Tivo over the supplier of the video signal using a plain box.


Honestly I don't think there is anyone that wouldn't respect that point of view. I just have to wonder why you're still with DirecTV then as the writing has been on the wall for a *long* time. If DirecTV's content holds nothing over you then if it were me, I would have left a LONG time ago and been happy with my Tivo's.

Good luck!


----------



## JohnB1000

The problem with gills is their are two kinds, the old kind that you've got used to and the new kind that some say or not as good, but since the water is different you need those new one's. Having to choose which gills is just as much of a problem


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## fasTLane

It does not matter if Directv loses customers. They can handle it.


----------



## michad

So I want more HD channels and a decent deal to do the switch; However I'm nervous about telling an automated attendant that I want to cancel my service and poof three minutes later I'm watching my 3 local HD's and nothing else.

What's the update on their offerings?


----------



## RS4

bonscott87 said:


> I'm surprised you don't keep up with these things since it's these presentations where things like this are discussed and you're so hyped up on this subject.
> 
> There have been 3 or 4 finiancial investor calls and the Liberty presentation in the last few weeks. Go to DirecTV's website and click the Investor Relations link at the top for all the latest conference calls and presentations. Tivo isn't mentioned in any of the future plans and in fact all the talk is about how everything will center around the HR20/21 platform for HD and advanced services. Like I pointed out, they are fully invested in this. If it were to fail they will certainly be giving it a couple years to succeed before they bail on it. And then, if Tivo is still a viable option it would be another year or two before a new Tivo based product would emerge. You can always come back at that time should you choose to do so by why "suffer" in the meantime?
> 
> We've been trying to tell you this for I don't know how long. The DirecTivo is a great product. It really is. Certainly a leader in it's industry. But the fact remains that DirecTV has gone a different way and holding on to your HR10 for as long as you can just isn't going to change that fact. The 150K or so (if that) HR10 users that don't have at least one MPEG4 box just isn't that big of a number in terms of all the HD subs they have and the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of HR20s out there.
> 
> I also take it that you missed the latest Tivo quarterly investor presentation where he said flat out that there are no discussions with DirecTV and no indication that there will be any in the future. His talk 6 months ago where he said that maybe Liberty would talk with them again was as we suspected, just fluff at the time to try to keep the stock price up. This time he admited flatly that there is nothing going on between Tivo and DirecTV in terms of new products, no talks at all and he didn't see anything going in that direction in the future.
> 
> Honestly I don't think there is anyone that wouldn't respect that point of view. I just have to wonder why you're still with DirecTV then as the writing has been on the wall for a *long* time. If DirecTV's content holds nothing over you then if it were me, I would have left a LONG time ago and been happy with my Tivo's.
> 
> Good luck!


You obviously haven't paid any attention to what I've been saying about the future of the Dtivos, but then that doesn't surprise me, because you have a different agenda - i.e. promoting non-Tivo products on this Tivo forum - then I do.

I've never seen anything in writing from Tivo and/or DirecTV to say they were going to explore the possibiliities of some kind of joint project. In fact, it has been the opposite with DirecTV publicly stating that they were exploring possibilities. There has been nothing from Liberty either. I have explained several times that I would wait until the first quarter after the dust settles with the satellite launch and hopefully the new owners in control to see if they gave any indications. I think your interpretation of what Tivo is saying )quoted below) is different from mine



> *On the DIRECTV front, I think the announcement this quarter that we are working on additional features for DIRECTV and the accompanying quote of theirs in the statement from them about this, indicating potential for looking to build further relationships with TiVo, is an indication of what it is, an interest in opportunities for us to potentially work with them going forward.*


And of course, there are millions more than the 150k users you speak about. So, I think I will continue to remind folks about the half-truths and that they are rewarding a company for second-rate equipment and service. Thanks


----------



## dswallow

michad said:


> So I want more HD channels and a decent deal to do the switch; However I'm nervous about telling an automated attendant that I want to cancel my service and poof three minutes later I'm watching my 3 local HD's and nothing else.
> 
> What's the update on their offerings?


You are living in some warped mirror universe if you think saying the word "cancel" to any company, especially via an automated attendant, will result in any manner of cancellation without numerous attempts on their part to prevent your leaving. 

And even if you do go so far as to decide as a negotiating point you really want to follow through with the cancellation, you can tell them to disconnect some time in the future, like 2 or 3 weeks from the day you're calling. Then another day you can call and cancel the cancellation, if you must.


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## milominderbinder

michad said:


> So I want more HD channels and a decent deal to do the switch; However I'm nervous about telling an automated attendant that I want to cancel my service and poof three minutes later I'm watching my 3 local HD's and nothing else.
> 
> What's the update on their offerings?


That is just a password. Try calling and just asking for Retention if you prefer.

Make sure that they put you through. Ask the CSR if they are in the Retention Department.

As to the latest offerings, others are still getting $199, $99, and even $19 deals. It depends on your negotiating skills and your Hearts rating. At this point it seems the key is whether you own an HR10.

You can have it all. Keep your TiVo for your old channels and add the HR20 for the new channels (and old). You will have twice the storage and twice the tuners.

These steps should help you: Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips.

Take care,

- Craig


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## 94SupraTT

DDayDawg said:


> Sadly I have to agree with this. As much as I love TiVo (I got one of the first silver Sony TiVos in the old days and have preached the word ever since) they just aren't going to win the war here. I hope they stay in business and anytime I can choose them within my viewing needs I will but as much as I love them I'm not jumping off this DTV HD train. My HR20 should be here tomorrow and I will run both that and the HR10-250 as long as I can, but I just crave the HD.
> 
> As much as DirecTV does to piss me off some times I have to admit that their day-to-day service is excellent when compared to Comcast. I have to use Comcast for internet because my company pays for it and dealing with them on any type of support is just hellish.
> 
> I really want a real TiVo to work with DirecTV, but I would also really like to have gills because it would be neat to dive without a scuba tank. But neither of those is going to happen so I have to deal with the hand I was dealt. Still sad though, gills would rock.


D* gave me gills for $19 shipped. You were jipped.


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## milominderbinder

94SupraTT said:


> D* gave me gills for $19 shipped. You were jipped.


OK, no one is supposed to be bragging about who has the biggest gills! 

You both did a very nice job using the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips!

- Craig


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## Monkeybiz

I just got the whole enchilada for $19. Appears my contract was up and I've got a good 10yr history with them. No programming credits, just happy we are finally getting more HD crack for my system. Selling my HR10-250 locally, the fan is getting loud though.


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## milominderbinder

Monkeybiz said:


> I just got the whole enchilada for $19. Appears my contract was up and I've got a good 10yr history with them. No programming credits, just happy we are finally getting more HD crack for my system. Selling my HR10-250 locally, the fan is getting loud though.


Nice work!

In additionto the 21 new HD last week, you also just got the 11 new HD channels added today:

Comcast SportsNet Chicago HD (Channel 640) 
Comcast SportsNet Mid-Atlantic HD (Channel 629)
New England Sports Network/NESN HD(Channel 623)
SportsNet New York HD (Channel 625)
YES HD (Channel 622)
Cinemax East (Channel 512)
Cinemax West (Channel 514)
HBO West (Channel 504)
Bravo (Channel 273)
SciFi Channel (Channel 244)
USA Network (Channel 242)

- Craig


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## Marino13

I took my own approach to this since January. At that time I had three HR10-250's (that I received for $100 total) and three H-20's and a 3-LNB Dish. On my first call in January I told them I wanted another HD DVR and would like to trade in a H-20. They did it with no questions asked for no charge. I had to send back one of my H-20's which was fine with me.
My second call was unsuccessful a week later. I asked the same thing again (trade in a H-20 and get a HD DVR) and they said the best they could do was $199. My third call asking for the same thing a month later was successful. The only difference was that I received a reconditioned unit which I do not really care about.
I kept calling about every two weeks asking for another one and was unsuccessful for the next three months. I probably called them ten times in that period and received various offers from $99 up to $299 but none would do it for free.
In June I received an automated call stating that I needed to upgrade my dish for the new HD channels coming out this fall. I called them and stated that I received the message. The next week I got the 5-LNB dish (I self installed it) and another HR-20. In this instance I was charged $19.95 but was not required to return my last H-20. I shut it off anyway and they do not want it back because I bought it right before the lease thing went into effect.
Last week I called and said I wanted to be able to receive the new HD channels in my bedroom. They replaced my HR10-250 with a HR-20 for no charge but made me send back the leased HR10-250. I now have 4 HR-20's for a grand total of $19.95 and still have 2 HR10-250's that I plan on keeping until they die. I do sub to the NFL Sunday Ticket (Superfan for free of course) but nothing else and have been a customer for 7 years.
I guess what I am trying to say is keep at it. It may be a pain in the butt to keep calling but you eventually will be successful assuming you pay your bill on time.


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## milominderbinder

As of today people are still getting $99 and even $19 deals using the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips.

- Craig


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## nrc

Called to cancel today. The response was "Wow, you've been with us over ten years." The offer was free HR20 plus $10 off for a year. Sounded like he was checking to see if it would be possible to offer more, but I made it clear. No TiVo, no deal. Very happy paying less and getting more with WOW! cable and TiVo.


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## fasTLane

nrc said:


> Called to cancel today.


Can't blame you. I will be along soon as well.


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## bonscott87

Both of you are making the right move. If Tivo is your #1 thing then you should move on. Only by leaving DirecTV will they actually notice anything (assuming enough do it all at once). RS4 and others keep "hanging on" in hope of a change and all that does is "reward" DirecTV as he calls it. They could care less if he ever gets an MPEG4 receiver so long as he's paying his bill. But if he leaves and says the reason is because of no Tivo, only then might they take notice. So long as DirecTV keeps adding more customers and they grow then they will think they are doing the correct thing.


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## jfischer

I just called and was told I could get the HR20 and new dish for free, installation is scheduled for Monday. We'll see what happens....


----------



## RS4

bonscott87 said:


> Both of you are making the right move. If Tivo is your #1 thing then you should move on. Only by leaving DirecTV will they actually notice anything (assuming enough do it all at once). RS4 and others keep "hanging on" in hope of a change and all that does is "reward" DirecTV as he calls it. They could care less if he ever gets an MPEG4 receiver so long as he's paying his bill. But if he leaves and says the reason is because of no Tivo, only then might they take notice. So long as DirecTV keeps adding more customers and they grow then they will think they are doing the correct thing.


I am doing more then hanging on, Scott.  I have written emails and spoken to them 3 times this year. I explained in a nice way that I prefer Tivo and will not accept the HR20 box without some sort of trial. I explained that I will be leaving if it appears nothing is going to be announced after the new owners take over.

The last email I wrote explaining why I was leaving (because of Tivo), they wrote back saying they were sorry that I didn't like the 2-year commitment. Then, when the lady called, she acted like she didn't even know that Tivo had a stand-alone HD box.

I still think that if enough people are vocal, DirecTV will get the message.

The thing that surprises me the most is why the moderators even allow a thread like this. It's one thing to direct folks over to dbstalk, but to allow this kind of thread where folks are being told how to get a second-rate box and to subsidize DirecTV by haning on to the HR10-250 is really amazing to me. I guess the owners just want traffic to this site.


----------



## Billy66

RS4 said:


> I still think that if enough people are vocal, DirecTV will get the message.


I wonder if there are enough people. Maybe yes, maybe no.



> The thing that surprises me the most is why the moderators even allow a thread like this. It's one thing to direct folks over to dbstalk, but to allow this kind of thread where folks are being told how to get a second-rate box and to subsidize DirecTV by haning on to the HR10-250 is really amazing to me. I guess the owners just want traffic to this site.


Maybe they disagree with the numerous assumptions in that paragraph.

Aren't you still subsidizing DirecTv?


----------



## RS4

Billy66 said:


> ...
> Aren't you still subsidizing DirecTv?


Yes, I am still a customer of DirecTV...waiting on the big announcement  I have gotten rid of HBO, HD, and NFLST, so I don't spend as much as I used to. I'm going to probably wait until the end of the first quarter before my final decision, although I just looked into getting that Series 2 deal the Tivo has for $89 for Amazon Unbox.


----------



## NatasNJ

Well I went for it. New HDVR is setup and installer is having issues getting HD channels due to some programming issue. They are working it out now. Boy was the install crazy though. Been here for like 4+ hours. So far everything is looking good though. Installed properly and everything. Just need to find me a 4 coax face plate for the wall.


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## Sir_winealot

jfischer said:


> I just called and was told I could get the HR20 and new dish for free, installation is scheduled for Monday. We'll see what happens....


Wow ...Monday? I guess that 'huge backlog' and influx of HR20 orders that many here spoke of due to the inception of more HD channels hasn't materialized after all. That's good to hear that you can get an appointment so quickly. :up:


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## dswallow

NatasNJ said:


> Just need to find me a 4 coax face plate for the wall.


I suggest the Leviton faceplates and F-Connector keystone inserts that you can get at Home Depot.


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## ebonovic

Sir_winealot said:


> Wow ...Monday? I guess that 'huge backlog' and influx of HR20 orders that many here spoke of due to the inception of more HD channels hasn't materialized after all. That's good to hear that you can get an appointment so quickly. :up:


Depends on market...

Some markets have a 1 month wait.


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## Sir_winealot

ebonovic said:


> Depends on market...
> 
> Some markets have a 1 month wait.


Yeah, but some markets had a 1 month wait for _any _ type install ...before the HR20 was even around. Talk here was "better get it before the wait gets to be 6-8 weeks ...or longer even!"

In fact, I read where people were forced to wait longer for an install _6 months ago._

Nice to hear that they've smoothed things out.


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## camcollect

I called to upgrade last week and the customer service rep didnt offer me anything at all, so I just canceled my service.

Tonight I got a call from a "assistant manager" who asked what he could do to retain my business. Here is what I got:

(3) HR20 HD Recorders
(1) HD Dish + install
FREE SERVICE UNTIL 1/08
$10 off per month for 1 Year starting 1/08

Install next week.


----------



## jfischer

Sir_winealot said:


> Wow ...Monday? I guess that 'huge backlog' and influx of HR20 orders that many here spoke of due to the inception of more HD channels hasn't materialized after all. That's good to hear that you can get an appointment so quickly. :up:


That's what worries me. I was expecting a 2-week wait. I just hope the CSR got everything down right. He was yawning during the call, so we'll see what actually transpires on Monday


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## milominderbinder

camcollect said:


> I called to upgrade last week and the customer service rep didnt offer me anything at all, so I just canceled my service.
> 
> Tonight I got a call from a "assistant manager" who asked what he could do to retain my business. Here is what I got:
> 
> (3) HR20 HD Recorders
> (1) HD Dish + install
> FREE SERVICE UNTIL 1/08
> $10 off per month for 1 Year starting 1/08
> 
> Install next week.


Great job! Most still are getting $99 and even $19 deals using the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips. You are up to step 8. Please make sure that your work order is correct and that you are ready.

I bet you have a 5 Hearts rating to get 3 for free. That is excellent.

As to install dates, if you are flexible on days of the week and times of day they often have a rescheduled opening coming up soon. It also varies with market area. An even bigger factor is that as of today, they have been carefull to not let anything get out to the mainstream press and very limited HD ads.

Again, great job!

- Craig


----------



## NSDQ160th2

Would it be wise to buy the 250 hd dvr (i think it's a hughes unit??) on ebay and use it to get the new HD line up with directv? they will have 100 new channels?? will it work? can I buy my own HD DVR and not buy it from Directv? can I return dvr that i lease from directv and not pay the monthly leased fee of $5? if I have HD programming, i can have as many HD receivers as I want? (let say 4?)


----------



## tem

NSDQ160th2 said:


> Would it be wise to buy the 250 hd dvr (i think it's a hughes unit??) on ebay and use it to get the new HD line up with directv? they will have 100 new channels?? will it work? can I buy my own HD DVR and not buy it from Directv? can I return dvr that i lease from directv and not pay the monthly leased fee of $5? if I have HD programming, i can have as many HD receivers as I want? (let say 4?)


No. The HR10-250 cannot receive the new MPEG-4 channels.


----------



## camcollect

milominderbinder said:


> I bet you have a 5 Hearts rating to get 3 for free. That is excellent.
> 
> - Craig


Thanks, what exactly is "5 hearts"?


----------



## rkester

The "hearts" are an internal DirecTV rating system. 5 is good, 1 is not. People with a 5 heart rating tend to get deals more often than others.


----------



## NatasNJ

Can you ask them what your heart rating is when you call?


----------



## kjnorman

I'm moving house in about a month so I called to see what Directv would do for me. In my new location I have the choice of two cable providers WOW! and Comcast (I'm moving to the Chicagoland area). And so I told them that I am weighing up the options of cable (perhaps either suspending or canceling Directv) or moving with Directv. I explained that the house is currently wired for cable, not Directv, and that I will need to install an antenna to get locals with my current HR10 and that it would be better to get the locals though the sat in the new locations. I also mentioned that I am in a grandfathered package where I do not pay the $10 HDTV fee and I am out of contract.

Anyway this is what they offered me:

HR20 for $299 less $100 instant rebate = $199.
$10 off total choice plus for 12 months = -$120.
HD Access free for 12 months = -$120.
New dish and free installation plus 2 yr commitment.

Shipping & Handling was NOT mentioned - and I forgot to clarify.

I wanted a second HR20, as I currently have a HR10 and a DVR2, and I wanted to replace both. But they would not do a second. The comment was that they will only offer one HR20 per six months due to the current popularity. Perhaps they would not offer two because I did not have two HR10s? 

Currently I did not accept the offer but I made sure that it was noted on my account.

I will check out WOWs offering more (I will use them for internet and telephone, irrespective of TV) and perhaps try Directv later in the week.


----------



## Anubys

NatasNJ said:


> Can you ask them what your heart rating is when you call?


how can they stop you from asking?


----------



## milominderbinder

NatasNJ said:


> Can you ask them what your heart rating is when you call?


Absolutely!

It is one of the steps to getting a $99 or even $19 deal using the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips.

Finding out your Hearts Rating tells you if you will have an uphill battle. More importantly it tells the Retention rep that you know your stuff.

The whole tone of the conversation changes the minute you ask that question. Follow it up with the term commitment and buyout questions and you should have just elevated yourself to about 1 in a 100 customers.

As of yesterday many were still getting the $19 and $99 deals...

- Craig


----------



## RS4

kjnorman said:


> I'm moving house in about a month so I called to see what Directv would do for me. In my new location I have the choice of two cable providers WOW! and Comcast (I'm moving to the Chicagoland area). And so I told them that I am weighing up the options of cable (perhaps either suspending or canceling Directv) or moving with Directv. I explained that the house is currently wired for cable, not Directv, and that I will need to install an antenna to get locals with my current HR10 and that it would be better to get the locals though the sat in the new locations. I also mentioned that I am in a grandfathered package where I do not pay the $10 HDTV fee and I am out of contract.
> 
> Anyway this is what they offered me:
> 
> HR20 for $299 less $100 instant rebate = $199.
> $10 off total choice plus for 12 months = -$120.
> HD Access free for 12 months = -$120.
> New dish and free installation plus 2 yr commitment.
> 
> Shipping & Handling was NOT mentioned - and I forgot to clarify.
> 
> I wanted a second HR20, as I currently have a HR10 and a DVR2, and I wanted to replace both. But they would not do a second. The comment was that they will only offer one HR20 per six months due to the current popularity. Perhaps they would not offer two because I did not have two HR10s?
> 
> Currently I did not accept the offer but I made sure that it was noted on my account.
> 
> I will check out WOWs offering more (I will use them for internet and telephone, irrespective of TV) and perhaps try Directv later in the week.


WOW has a higher customer approval then DirecTV. Maybe they will give you a bigger discount with all 3 services and then you could get the Tivo HD.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

I would rather have a 2 yr committment to DTV than have to pay the up front fee on a 3 series TIVO. One a maybe charge and the other is not.


----------



## dswallow

Jebberwocky! said:


> I would rather have a 2 yr committment to DTV than have to pay the up front fee on a 3 series TIVO. One a maybe charge and the other is not.


Technically you get the best of both words... the 2-year commitment AND a $299 fee for each HR20. And the added bonus is that you don't have any resale value at all for the $299 you paid since you don't own the equipment!

At the moment you can get a TiVoHD for about $250; even at MSRP it'd only be $299.


----------



## Sir_winealot

Jebberwocky! said:


> One a maybe charge and the other is not.


Er....huh?

So, the other definitely is _not_ a maybe charge?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

I got three for free  of course only 1 commitment though.

I conviently left off the resale value of the Tivo - not sure what the resale market is (in terms of % off of new) but I'm sure it isn't all that bad.

I like to rebut anyone who complains about the committment fee/time frame. It's just one piece of the puzzle - of course as one posted claims, it prevents him from test driving the HR20.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Sir_winealot said:


> Er....huh?
> 
> So, the other definitely is _not_ a maybe charge?


it could be a gift or a raffle winning


----------



## newsposter

dswallow said:


> At the moment you can get a TiVoHD for about $250; even at MSRP it'd only be $299.


i have to know....any idea who is paying 1200 for a bone stock tivo? I cant imagine a single one going out the door at that price

http://www.weaknees.com/directv-hd-dvr.php


----------



## milominderbinder

To go back to the topic of the HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer...

Are people still getting the $99 and even $19 deals using the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips?

- Craig


----------



## jfischer

jfischer said:


> That's what worries me. I was expecting a 2-week wait. I just hope the CSR got everything down right. He was yawning during the call, so we'll see what actually transpires on Monday


Well, as to be expected, they're not doing the install today. They just called and said they don't have any dishes. They have the receiver, but no dishes. I guess sometime in the next week though they're supposed to get some more...


----------



## newsposter

19.95 but without ez 119 LOS unsure they will install..wonder if i'd get self install credit then?


----------



## xtopher_66

newsposter said:


> 19.95 but without ez 119 LOS unsure they will install..wonder if i'd get self install credit then?


I have LOS issues with the 119 satellite as well due to tall trees in my backyard. The installer contracted by D* refused to even try and mount the dish higher up on my roof. I ended up hiring a local antenna installer to mount the dish and I've had good reception in the three years I've had it. All D* would offer me was a $100 credit, somewhat less than what I paid for the installation. I'm anticipating similar issues when I get the 5 LNB dish with my HR20 install next week.


----------



## newsposter

well he walked my entire roofline and said no go...but i'm betting in yard i could do pole mount no problem....thing is it was 8pm when he got here so i'm sure he didnt wanna do anything


----------



## robnalex

Hello, All! It's been a while since my last post and it's nice to see some of the "regulars" are still around!

I have 2 HR10-250s and like many, am considering negotiating a deal for an HR20 and new dish for the new channels.

I'm trying to figure out when my current commitment ends (it may have already) and can't find anything under my account at the DirecTV site or on my last paper statement. Do I have to call them to find out?


----------



## RS4

robnalex said:


> Hello, All! It's been a while since my last post and it's nice to see some of the "regulars" are still around!
> 
> I have 2 HR10-250s and like many, am considering negotiating a deal for an HR20 and new dish for the new channels.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out when my current commitment ends (it may have already) and can't find anything under my account at the DirecTV site or on my last paper statement. Do I have to call them to find out?


Yes, you do need to call, because they won't put the end date on the bill.


----------



## robnalex

The last changes I made to my programming package were in December 2004 and my 2nd HR10-250 was added in January 2005, so I'm thinking I my last 2 year commitment may be over.


----------



## bonscott87

That's a good way to think about it. When was the last time you added a receiver in your house? Add 2 years if it was HD or a DVR, 1 year if it was a standard receiver.

So for me the last receiver I added was an HR20 in Sept 2006. Thus I have about 11 months left on my current commitment.


----------



## jimb726

robnalex said:


> The last changes I made to my programming package were in December 2004 and my 2nd HR10-250 was added in January 2005, so I'm thinking I my last 2 year commitment may be over.


Sounds like you are in the golden seat for negotiation. Just be prepared to have your bluff called if you are going to use cancelation as leverage. Also if you decide to switch make sure you get them to let you keep your HR10-250's. Then you can run all of the units, or if you like sell them and get some of the cash to offset any new fees you might incur.


----------



## tvl76

milominderbinder said:


> To go back to the topic of the HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer...
> 
> Are people still getting the $99 and even $19 deals using the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips?
> 
> - Craig


I called to schedule the free 5 lnb dish upgrade. I already had (2) H20's and an HR10, so I told them that I only needed the dish at this time.

But after the installers failed to show up for the first scheduled install, and then when they did show up, they broke an irrigation pipe, left behind the empty box, packing and wire clippings, did not remove the old dish, etc, etc. My subsequent conversations with retention resulted in an HR20 for $0.00, MLB race to the pennant for $0.00 and HD fee waived for 6 mo.

I was nice about it and so were they. I told them that I was aware of some people getting the HR20 for free and I would feel better if I could get similar treatment.

I don't have a problem with the 2 yr commitment, D* is the best choice anyway.


----------



## milominderbinder

robnalex said:


> The last changes I made to my programming package were in December 2004 and my 2nd HR10-250 was added in January 2005, so I'm thinking I my last 2 year commitment may be over.


Wow. You should be golden!

Here is a summary of the best ideas from people getting the deals:

Get a Great Deal on an HR20

Good hunting!

Everyone, let us know how you are doing!

- Craig


----------



## annenoe

milominderbinder said:


> To go back to the topic of the HR10-250 and MPEG4; Upgrade Offer...
> 
> Are people still getting the $99 and even $19 deals using the Get a Great Deal on an HR20 tips?
> 
> - Craig


Yes - I just got mine for $19 installed - including having to put in a new multi-switch and run two more lines into the house (to get dual tuners on both my new HR20 and my old HR10). Guy spent 3 hours here - for $19. Good deal.


----------



## Nick19711

I called earlier today and said "cancel" at the prompt. I talked to a nice guy named Edwin. I told him I was looking to cancel because I couldn't get the new high definition channels without forking out significant money (my best offer to date was $299 total to replace two HR10-250s). I was real nice; didn't threaten, just laid out my case. 

Edwin offered me two HR20's for $99 (total), plus HD service for free for the next year (saving me $120), PLUS 4 months of premier and Sunday Ticket for $50 a month (saving me $25 a month over the Plus HD DVR package I have now). I also keep the two HR10-250s. 

By my calculation i'm up about $80 over the next year, and I get Sunday Ticket for the rest of the year thrown in. 

I thought it was a very fair deal. They're coming October 20th. Thanks to all for the tips. (It took me about 4 calls over a two week period to get the deal I got.)


----------



## jfischer

Nick19711 said:


> Edwin offered me two H20's for $99 (total), plus HD service for free for the next year


I hope you meant H*R*20's, since the H20 isn't a DVR...


----------



## Nick19711

Yes; i'm getting HR20's


----------



## Pipper

I think I goofed. I should have read this forum first. Currently, I have a Hughes E86 on one TV and the HR10-250 on another. I'm out of contract. For $99, DTV will install an H20 in one room and an HR20 in the other with the new 5LNB dish. I decided that I would prefer to have two HR20s instead of the one H20 and one HR20, so DTV said they would swap the H20 for the second HR20 in a separate install for an additional $199, so I'm up to about $300 for two HR20s. Also, they said that I can't keep my 10-250 in any circumstance. I asked if they could install the two HR20s at the same time, and they said that would entail cancelling the first order which would result in the total price increasing by $100. I am quite confused.

Should I cancel this order, regroup and read through these forums, and try again later? Or is $300 for two HR20s a reasonably good deal? I'm seeing that many people on this forum are getting to keep their 10-250. If that's the case, I could keep the 10-250 where it is (of course, not getting the new HD channels on that TV), and putting the new HR20 on the other, new, HDTV.

Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## JohnB1000

Pipper, I think there's two arguments to that. Firstly, when you made the order you were happy to pay $300 so to you it's worth it. The other argument is that you could get a better price so it seems unfair.

Maybe the first place to start is to ask for programming credits. You might be able to get $200--$300 worth of money off per month etc. I would definitely call about keeping the HR10 if nothing else.

Just my opinion of course.


----------



## Anubys

Pipper said:


> I think I goofed. I should have read this forum first. Currently, I have a Hughes E86 on one TV and the HR10-250 on another. I'm out of contract. For $99, DTV will install an H20 in one room and an HR20 in the other with the new 5LNB dish. I decided that I would prefer to have two HR20s instead of the one H20 and one HR20, so DTV said they would swap the H20 for the second HR20 in a separate install for an additional $199, so I'm up to about $300 for two HR20s. Also, they said that I can't keep my 10-250 in any circumstance. I asked if they could install the two HR20s at the same time, and they said that would entail cancelling the first order which would result in the total price increasing by $100. I am quite confused.
> 
> Should I cancel this order, regroup and read through these forums, and try again later? Or is $300 for two HR20s a reasonably good deal? I'm seeing that many people on this forum are getting to keep their 10-250. If that's the case, I could keep the 10-250 where it is (of course, not getting the new HD channels on that TV), and putting the new HR20 on the other, new, HDTV.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated.


call, ask to speak to a supervisor, be very polite...tell the supervisor that you made this deal, then you came to forums (mention TCF and DBStalk) where hundreds of people have gotten theirs for free...tell him you are very upset (in a calm voice) and you need him to help you because now you're considering leaving D*...

keep escalating until someone gives you a credit...

they will insist that they don't match deals reported in forums...they will say that you shouldn't believe what you read there...but in the end, they will give you a better deal (as long as you're not a deadbeat customer!)...


----------



## Anubys

btw: got a second HR20 today for free...had to go to a supervisor, who gave me $199 credit to offset the $199 charge for the HR20...

he would not give me a third HR20 since there seems to be a limit of 2 per household every 12 months (because they are running out)...

I don't believe that last bit (about the limit) but I figured I'll try for another HR20 later and took the free one that was offered


----------



## Pipper

Thanks for the good info. My install date is a couple of weeks away, so I'll keep trying reps and supervisors to see if I can get a better deal.

Another question comes to mind. If I buy an HR20 at Costco (which they said that I could do as an existing customer without having to purchase additional programming or an installation), can I hook it up to the TV that currently has the Hughes E86 attached (i.e, swap the HR20 with the E86), and use it as a single tuner DVR with my current HD package WITHOUT putting me under contract? It makes me nervous because it seems like DTV will extend a contract even if you simply mention them in casual conversation.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

I don't think so - the price you pay at Costco is subsidized by DTV to some extent so I think you would trigger a extension of your commitment.


----------



## rkester

One thing I don't think has been mentioned here regarding this deal is that it does NOT include installer costs, such as wall drops for the 2nd tuner. My installer wanted $45 per wall drop, and this is unrelated to the costs from DirecTV.

And DTV would not budge on this or give me any form of compensation. So my "free" install ended up costing $90.


----------



## RS4

Pipper said:


> Thanks for the good info. My install date is a couple of weeks away, so I'll keep trying reps and supervisors to see if I can get a better deal.
> 
> Another question comes to mind. If I buy an HR20 at Costco (which they said that I could do as an existing customer without having to purchase additional programming or an installation), can I hook it up to the TV that currently has the Hughes E86 attached (i.e, swap the HR20 with the E86), and use it as a single tuner DVR with my current HD package WITHOUT putting me under contract? It makes me nervous because it seems like DTV will extend a contract even if you simply mention them in casual conversation.


You are not buying the box from Costco. You are leasing it and they will get ya for another 2-year hitch.


----------



## milominderbinder

Pipper said:


> I think I goofed. I should have read this forum first... I decided that I would prefer to have two HR20s instead...


First I think that you would have been unhappy with the H20 once you got the HR20.

Even if all you do is watch live TV, you still sometimes want to pause to get food or drink, answer the phone, etc. Or your spouse may be telling you something very important and you should give your full attention. 

Second, so many times now they do not give replays of key moments because they are so busy with other games and sideline interviews. You will go nuts without a REPLAY key.

Just follow the steps: Get a Great Deal on an HR20

Make sure you get to retention. Be nice and tell them what you would like.

At this point though, they are giving less programming credits and fewer of the free premium trials. The big HD announcement date is coming.

- Craig


----------



## bonscott87

Pipper said:


> Thanks for the good info. My install date is a couple of weeks away, so I'll keep trying reps and supervisors to see if I can get a better deal.
> 
> Another question comes to mind. If I buy an HR20 at Costco (which they said that I could do as an existing customer without having to purchase additional programming or an installation), can I hook it up to the TV that currently has the Hughes E86 attached (i.e, swap the HR20 with the E86), and use it as a single tuner DVR with my current HD package WITHOUT putting me under contract? It makes me nervous because it seems like DTV will extend a contract even if you simply mention them in casual conversation.


Yea, it's a lease and a 2 year commitment. Unless you pay $750-800 to buy, it's a lease with commitment.


----------



## milominderbinder

bonscott87 said:


> Yea, it's a lease and a 2 year commitment. Unless you pay $750-800 to buy, it's a lease with commitment.


True!

Also, you will extend your contract 2 years and DIRECTV will want to do the installation.

These and other notes are in the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

- Craig


----------



## newsposter

I wonder if this thread on TCF will be deleted as over on the other board they are stopping talk of these deals. I guess forums DO have an effect on profits. But i still say it's the CSR's faults for giving them out so freely if that's the issue.

http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=113&a=122

What we will no longer be discussing in this forum is "deals" on equipment, other then those from retail chains.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

newsposter said:


> I wonder if this thread on TCF will be deleted as over on the other board they are stopping talk of these deals. I guess forums DO have an effect on profits. But i still say it's the CSR's faults for giving them out so freely if that's the issue.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=113&a=122
> 
> What we will no longer be discussing in this forum is "deals" on equipment, other then those from retail chains.


aren't folks still getting deals ?? This thread could last forever and still be useful for some


----------



## dswallow

newsposter said:


> I wonder if this thread on TCF will be deleted as over on the other board they are stopping talk of these deals. I guess forums DO have an effect on profits. But i still say it's the CSR's faults for giving them out so freely if that's the issue.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=113&a=122
> 
> What we will no longer be discussing in this forum is "deals" on equipment, other then those from retail chains.


TCF is owned by a different group.


----------



## newsposter

dswallow said:


> TCF is owned by a different group.


oh ok, i dont know who owns what. thought the new owners bought the whole package. So David still owns AVS/DBS?


----------



## pbadss

jimb726 said:


> Sounds like you are in the golden seat for negotiation. Just be prepared to have your bluff called if you are going to use cancelation as leverage. Also if you decide to switch make sure you get them to let you keep your HR10-250's. Then you can run all of the units, or if you like sell them and get some of the cash to offset any new fees you might incur.


I called retention and they wouldn't budge at $99. They then called my bluff so now I have a cancellation date at the end of the month. 

I might just cancel anyway and go with another provider or I may call back and tell them to not cancel and beg for a deal on the H20. I wish FIOS was available in LA, it would make things a lot easier.


----------



## Pipper

Well, I used the tips provided, and they called my bluff (although it wasn't actually a bluff): I told them politely that I was upset at what was offered, mentioned the deals that others on these forums are getting, etc. My hearts rating is 4. The rep very nicely agreed to cancel my order.

I'll just try again another day.


----------



## Sir_winealot

newsposter said:


> I wonder if this thread on TCF will be deleted as over on the other board they are stopping talk of these deals. I guess forums DO have an effect on profits. But i still say it's the CSR's faults for giving them out so freely if that's the issue.
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/announcement.php?f=113&a=122
> 
> What we will no longer be discussing in this forum is "deals" on equipment, other then those from retail chains.


Too funny. Guess D*'s involvement on the other forum has dictated that they don't want people figuring out how to circumvent their paying full price for the HR20.

What a bunch of crap.


----------



## bonscott87

You guys need to get glasses and read better.  "Deals" threads are still allowed, just moved to a different forum and out of the Installation support forum. It's a "refocus" of forums as Earl says.


----------



## dswallow

bonscott87 said:


> You guys need to get glasses and read better.  "Deals" threads are still allowed, just moved to a different forum and out of the Installation support forum. It's a "refocus" of forums as Earl says.


It's more like Earl has learned to speak/write Bott.


----------



## Sir_winealot

bonscott87 said:


> You guys need to get glasses and read better.  "Deals" threads are still allowed, just moved to a different forum and out of the Installation support forum. It's a "refocus" of forums as Earl says.


Well, then ...I detract my "bunch of crap" statement and reapply it to the "CSR roulette" conundrum that all of us often face when trying to obtain 'said deals.'


----------



## bonscott87

dswallow said:


> It's more like Earl has learned to speak/write Bott.


LOL. I laughed out loud on that one. And brings back memories of TCF circa 2001.


----------



## Anubys

I tell you...as soon as D* made a change at the top, put a bean counter in charge of these decisions, and the launch of HD channels was successful, I could see the writing on the wall...

I had been waiting patiently for SWM to be available before I called to get a deal (I had 1 HR20 and 3 HR10s)...but hurried and got what I could NOW since I have a strong feeling that those deals are going to be gone very very soon...

even so, all I got was one more HR20...


----------



## snoots

I have been trying unsuccesfully to get a break on a single HR20 to replace one of my 2 HD-TIVOs. They won't budge, won't do better than 299 even though I have been with them since USSB !!! I am looking at Cox and Dish now since there seems to be no loyalty to long time clients.


----------



## fasTLane

They can keep their boat anchors, I daresay.


----------



## jfischer

snoots said:


> I have been trying unsuccesfully to get a break on a single HR20 to replace one of my 2 HD-TIVOs. They won't budge, won't do better than 299 even though I have been with them since USSB !!! I am looking at Cox and Dish now since there seems to be no loyalty to long time clients.


Me too (since USSB that is). They caved and gave me the HR20 for free right away, guess I just won the CSR roulette that night.

Going for a 2nd install attempt Sunday night, we'll see how that goes...


----------



## robnalex

Anyone have any thoughts on what might be the best day and/or time of day to call? I have 2 HR10-250s and am well out of my last 2 year commitment. Anyone have any luck calling over the weekend?


----------



## bonscott87

I used to have great luck calling Saturday mornings right after 11am EST. Of course talk with retention (say "cancel" at the prompt). Seems to get the first shift people in Boise or Oklahoma at the beginning of their day thus they are in a pretty good mood. Been a year or so since I've needed to call for anything though.

Sunday would be really bad this time of year with Sunday Ticket going.


----------



## pbadss

Well I called back to reinstate my account. First guy wasn't even willing to give me the $99 offered to me by the original CSR a week ago and offered $199. I was ready to agree, but we got disconnected (I think he hung up on me)

I called right back and asked for the same guy, but they weren't able to connect me. So the lady (who was much nicer) agreed to $99 and after some urging, a $6/mo DVR discount for 6 months. I jumped on that offer, and she put me on hold to check something. I was then told that they were have a special offer for my area (I live in LA) and received the HR20 for free without even having to pay shipping. I didn't even bother to see if I'd still get the $6/mo DVR discount.  

Amazingly, the next available install is next week, so hopefully everything goes smoothly. I guess I'm stuck with DTV for another 2 years. All in all I'm very pleased.


----------



## Tonedeaf

jfischer said:


> Me too (since USSB that is). They caved and gave me the HR20 for free right away, guess I just won the CSR roulette that night.
> 
> Going for a 2nd install attempt Sunday night, we'll see how that goes...


Sunday night?? I am sure that installer will be sure and take his time.


----------



## Nick19711

A cautionary tale:

I own two HR10-250s. I called earlier in the week, and got two HR20's for $99 total (plus some programming credits). Or so I was told. Even though I asked the CSR 3 times to make sure we were clear, and wrote it all down, when I called with a billing question 2 days later, i was told, no, you're not getting billed $99 one time -- you're getting billed $99 a month for 3 months. Understandably perturbed, I told them to cancel the order, and cancel my service. (meanwhile, I had already paid the $99 via credit card)

It gets better.

Yesterday, I got called by retention to ask how they could keep my business. I explained everything, and got offered two HR20's for $19.95 (shipping only) each. I was also told my $99 would be refunded. However, no programming credits. I figured it was a good deal, and took it. Again, I clarified and documented everything, and got the CSR's name.

A few hours later, I checked my account on line, and noticed that the original $99 I had been charged was still on my bill. I called back -- and was told, no, you're not getting two HR20's for $19.95 each -- you're getting two HD (NON DVR) boxes for that price.

Totally disgusted by this point. I told her I wanted to cancel. I'm paid up through the next 30 days, and I said I want my service shut down after that time. Oh, and the $99 they originally charged me (and was charged to my credit card) -- I get that back 6-8 weeks after my service is disconnected. In other words, in 3 MONTHS.

So whats the moral of the story? Don't believe what a CSR says until you can go on line and verify it, or verify it with another CSR. I'm not sure if anyone from Directv monitors this site, but i've been a customer for 7 years, have never paid my bill late, and rarely if ever call Directv (in other words, i'm not a crank). I love Directv, but right now your customer support is less than optimal (i'm being charitable.) Either that, or I've just had extraordinarily bad luck.


----------



## fasTLane

"Rupert Murdoch" residue? Could be hard to wash off.


----------



## Tivogre

I called today ~1:00 and spoke to a nice representative named Edith. I told her that I knew they were rolling out "a bunch" of new HD channels that I can't get with my HR10-250, and that "a friend" ;p had gotten an upgrade offer to swap out his HR10-250 for an HR-20 for just the cost of shipping. 

She said "looking at your account, it says you are only eligible for a $299 HD-DVR... but I can't understand why... you've been a top tier customer since 1999. I'll probably get shot for telling you this... but if I transfer you to retention, and you tell them you are upset about not getting this deal and want to cancel, I'll bet you'll get the deal you want." 

I said fine; she transferred me. 

The gentleman who answered made no reference to retention of cancellation; I didn't either. I told him I was transferred to his department because the 1st line CSR said he might be able to offer me an upgrade deal I heard about. I told him that I wanted to "swap out" my HR10-250 for an HR-20. 

He placed me on hold, came back, and said "I can indeed get you an HR20 for the cost of shipping ($19.95); we can relocate your HR10-250 if you'd like". 

I confirmed that the upgrade included a dish upgrade; he said that id did, and any other "hardware you need to get the new HD services". 

My install was set up for October 24th. 

I'll check later today to see if I can move it up on-line. 

The CSR did tell me that I will be charged $199.00 and credited $199.00 that on the same bill. 

He also told me that this will start a new 2 year commitment on the date of installation; there is a $12.50 per month early cancellation fee if I leave before the 2 years. 

Hopefully, I'll like the HR20 OK.. but if not, I haven't given much up. I already had 1 year remaining on a previous 2 year commitment. 

I had been thinking of switching to FIOS... but with the stories about Tivo HD / Series 3 issues on 9.1, I want to buy some time to let things settle. 

Worst case, in 6 months I'll have to pay $225 cancellation fee to DTV; in the mean time, I can sample / enjoy the new DTV offerings. 

Good luck all!


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## Tivogre

As of 2:45 I was able (through on-line reschedule) to move my install date up to am of 10/16!

Sweetness!


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## jfischer

Tonedeaf said:


> Sunday night?? I am sure that installer will be sure and take his time.


Yep, that's what I'm scheduled for  All he has to do is replace the existing 3-LNB dish and give me the DVR. It shouldn't be that much of a chore to do mine. But I'm sure he'll be in a hurry to get done with it...


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## snoots

Called again today cancelled service, guy says let me read your account notes. Asks me if this is about the HD-DVR replacement. I said yes, Asks to put me on hold, tells me I was misinformed, scheduled free hr-20 new dish etc etc. no charge. Oct 27 install. Tried to give me 2 but system would not allow it. Noted account so that if I was happy with hr20 they would replace my other hdtivo for no charge at a later date. So for now I stay with them.


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## milominderbinder

If you are ordering your HR20, here are the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

If you have placed your order, check out the links to confirm your order and installation. Also check out the Installation Tips to make sure you get a great install.

- Craig


----------



## robnalex

OK Folks- I have 2 HR10-250s and my last 2-year commitment expired a few months ago. Heres my lets make a deal story:

Ive been following the posts here and Craigs ordering tips since the new HD channels came online. The last time I tried to make a deal with DirecTV (for programming credits to offset the purchase of my HR10-250s) I got a really snarky woman who was downright rude and patronizing, so Ive been working on building my confidence and overcoming my fear or rejection to make the call. I was going to call earlier today when the reps might be fresher but didnt bite the bullet and pick up the phone till 5 P.M. Eastern  3 P.M. Idaho.

I just wasnt comfortable saying cancel at the voice prompt, so I said upgrade equipment knowing I probably get a regular CSR to start with. I experienced almost zero wait time before getting through. The first guy was very nice and offered me 2 HR20s for something like $598. He said that was the best he could do because the demand was so high and the HR20s were flying off the shelves. I told him that wouldnt work and naively asked if they had some kind of a retention department that might be able to do better since I was outside my last 2-year commitment. He said, We sure do! and was happy to transfer me over. 

Almost immediately a very nice guy in Retention answered. He was very friendly and we engaged in some fun small talk about pets and weather while he looked at my account. He said he could do one HR20 for free but two would cost me $299. I said I was really hoping to do better than that and then, in an effort to make me feel grateful, he quoted me an itemized list of the cost to DirecTV to do this upgrade. I told him that I too had invested a lot of money in DirecTV hardware over the past few years, that I was really happy with them, would like to stay, but really didnt want to pay for more equipment. He still wouldnt budge, so I asked him if we could offset the $299 with program credits and he said Sure! We can do that. So heres my deal:

> $299 Initial cost for 2 HR20s, including installation and new 5-LNB dish. 
> $120 ($10 general credit for 12 months)
> $120 ($10 HD package for 12 months)
> $60 ($5.99 DVR service credit for 12 months)

Im a little concerned about that last one, since Im not currently paying a DVR service fee (Is it because of my lifetime TiVo thing?).

SoHowd I do?! The entire process was surprisingly fast and both reps were extremely friendly and courteous. Thanks to all here for your helpful posts about your deals!


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## jfischer

Thanks for the link to DirecTV for the order info. That page says my install is scheduled from Noon to 5 p.m. They told me 4 to 8 p.m. on the phone  

Guess I'll be hanging around all day tomorrow...


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## newsposter

If anyone gets the 721 message on the 'regular' channels like scifi, bravo hd etc, but you have your premium and local HDs, have them turn off your old HD pak and turn on the new one. It took me over 2 hours on the phone with 5 reps, plus the installer at one point, for them to figure out my hdpak wasnt on. DUH i told them I never paid for HD before even and I knew they needed to activate it! But they kept saying i was grandfathered in. I had no clue what they meant but was sure it was a dtv issue as my signals were good.


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## robnalex

As I posted earlier, I was able to work out a deal for 2 HR20s and the install is scheduled for October 23.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to transition so that we can watch the remaining recordings on the 2 HR10-250s after the 2 HR20s are installed.

I realize that we can keep the 2 HR10-250s connected (4 DVRS) for a while, but am not sure my work order will allow this with out additional charge. From the DirecTV site, my order details read:

> Standard Professional Install $0.00
> Swap ReplaceImplied DVR IRD $0.00
> Handling $0.00
> Swap Replace HR20 IRD $0.00
> Swap Replace HR20 IRD $0.00

I guess I need to call back and confirm that my order includes a Zinwell 6x8 Multi-Switch WB68 and anything else needed to keep the HR10-250s online?

If the 2 HR10-250s are "taken off" can I still connect them to the TV and watch the recordings without getting a lot of annoying messages?

Suggestions?


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## Jebberwocky!

newsposter said:


> If anyone gets the 721 message on the 'regular' channels like scifi, bravo hd etc, but you have your premium and local HDs, have them turn off your old HD pak and turn on the new one. It took me over 2 hours on the phone with 5 reps, plus the installer at one point, for them to figure out my hdpak wasnt on. DUH i told them I never paid for HD before even and I knew they needed to activate it! But they kept saying i was grandfathered in. I had no clue what they meant but was sure it was a dtv issue as my signals were good.


I have this exact problem - call and explained your solution to thge CRS. HE thaked me and then instructed me to check my cabble connections.

I said no, I wasn't going to do anything of the sort but would he please do what I asked and then, if that didn't work I would do whayt he asked.

He said okay and then asked me to pull the power cord - I then hung up.

Called back, said "cancel" to get to a higher up CSTR and she turned off all my HD programming and then put it back and still nothing - switched to their tech. department and that person would not even consider your solution and I have someone coming out to look at my disk (not seeing the 103 sat) next tuesday.

At least in the interim we can still get the SD version of those channels.


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## milominderbinder

newsposter said:


> If anyone gets the 721 message on the 'regular' channels like scifi, bravo hd etc, but you have your premium and local HDs, have them turn off your old HD pak and turn on the new one. It took me over 2 hours on the phone with 5 reps, plus the installer at one point, for them to figure out my hdpak wasnt on. DUH i told them I never paid for HD before even and I knew they needed to activate it! But they kept saying i was grandfathered in. I had no clue what they meant but was sure it was a dtv issue as my signals were good.


This is exactly what I had to do.

I had a retention rep from the beginning so she knew what to do from the start. I did not even have to give her the steps.

Presto. Fixed. All the new HDs came in.

- Craig


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## milominderbinder

For everyone who has placed your orders...

Good Job!

Please you are on step 5 of the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

Check out the links to confirm your order and installation. Also check out the Installation Tips to make sure you get a great install.

Also start looking through the Undocumented Tips & Tricks. The manual will tell you that you can't have 133 of the features you will like most. But we know how!

If you haven't placed your order, you are on step 1. I am thinking that you might want to place your order today, Sunday, the 14th. 

- Craig


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## jfischer

Figures, it's raining cats and dogs today and doesn't look like it's going to let up. Doubt the installer's gonna want to try and do the install today, but we'll see...


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## jfischer

Got it installed today, everything seems good. I got an HR20-100, not sure what the difference is between the 100 and the 700. Might be my imagination, but I think the PQ is better than the HR10-250 (both via HDMI).

I also had to have them resend my HD package, since I wasn't getting any of the new channels, but now I'm good. 

At first I thought the HR20 was ungodly noisy, but I just realized that they bumped my power switch and my PS3 was on - which was the source of the fan noise. Once I turned the PS3 off it's as quiet as the HR10.


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## Rgonyer

Wow, tried today and got $299/each to upgrade two my two HDDirecTivos, and one of them is actually failing. What a bargain. Once Sunday Ticket is over this year, I'll be looking at cable or dish.


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## Jebberwocky!

tried - does that mean just once? Most get the deals within 3 or 4 calls.

If at first you don't succeed . . . .


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## Rgonyer

Forgot to add, subscriber since around '97, HD Pack since day 1, Sunday Ticket for the past 4 years, and superfan every year it was available.


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## Rgonyer

Yeah, I'll probably try again, but it irks me that they don't feel our time is valuable. Why can't they just offer the best deal right off the bat???


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## pendragn

Because they're trying to make as much money as possible. "Maximum shareholder profitability" and all that.

tk


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## jcaudle

Directv....HR20 POS....cruising quietly along with my S3 and TivoHD....and rain or snow don't kill my signal.


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## Jebberwocky!

jcaudle said:


> Directv....HR20 POS....cruising quietly along with my S3 and TivoHD....and rain or snow don't kill my signal.


when did you try your HR20? What did you not like about it?


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## duckyspawn

Well on my third attempt, I finally got D to give in. Spoke to retention last night and after he stated that my account shows I was offered the $199 deal, I explained to him that I didn't accept it because it wasn't satisfactory. 

I told him I am a long time customer and have never had a delinquent payment. I also told him that I was very happy with my service and had no desire to go to another provider but felt I was not being taken care of. I further explained I had paid a premium for the hr10-250 ands did not feel I should have to pay a premium again. 

Then I went further and stated that when the announcement was made that the new channels would not be compatible with the new box (about one year or so ago) that the existing HD customers would be offered upgrades at minimal to no cost and I didn't consider $199.00 minimal cost. 

He said that the upgrade deal for $19.95 was no longer an option in the system, however, he does remember that statement from D and he would charge me $199.00 but also credit me $199.00 and basically I would be charged the $19.95 for shipping. 

So I didnt push it for program credits since I felt $19.95 for the box, dish and other needed items was a good deal. Installation is Saturday morning.

So the best advice I can give is to keep trying and you will get the deal you want.


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## milominderbinder

You did great! I did not think there would be any deals once the HD hit.

You are on step 5 of the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

Don't stop now!

- Craig


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## duckyspawn

The only thing it doesnt show on my installation is the multiswitch. Is that an absolute necessity?


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## Jebberwocky!

yes if you'r einterested in the new HD MPEG4 channels on the 103 Sat.


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## Rgonyer

Are the new HD channels broadcast now?


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## duckyspawn

then I will call installation and make sure they add the zinwell multiswitch to my order.


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## newsposter

duckyspawn said:


> The only thing it doesnt show on my installation is the multiswitch. Is that an absolute necessity?


only if you have more than 4 lines needed. If not, no M/S needed.


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## duckyspawn

I only have three lines needed, two for the HD DVR and one for a regular box.


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## bonscott87

Rgonyer said:


> Are the new HD channels broadcast now?


Are you asking if there are new HD channels? Uhhh, yea. About 50 have been added in the past month. 

DBSTalk should be the forum to go to keep up on this since this forum hasn't been a good place to keep up on latest DirecTV developments for a couple years.


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## newsposter

Rgonyer said:


> Are the new HD channels broadcast now?


enjoy!

http://www.digitalcaffeine.com/hd/


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## rkester

Nice list. Def confirms what we knew, that many of the super stations are not broadcasting much real HD.


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## Rgonyer

Interesting - So what DTV is telling me is that I need to buy new equipment in order to receive programming that I am already paying for. Excellent business model!


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## bonscott87

Rgonyer said:


> Interesting - So what DTV is telling me is that I need to buy new equipment in order to receive programming that I am already paying for. Excellent business model!


Huh? This plan and upgrade has been in the works for 3 years now. This isn't news.  There is no bandwidth on the KU sat fleet. The new channels are going up on new KA sats which unfortunately the HR10s cannot see or tune to. No different then when they added my locals on the 119 sat about 8 years ago and I had to upgrade both my dish and all my receivers since none of them could tune to 119. Technology advances.

And if you have an HR10 now you should be able to get an HR20 pretty much free or really cheap. Just talk to retention and try as many times as needed to get the deal.


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## daperlman

As I said in another thread - do yourself a favor and wait 1 year to switch. 
The 2 main reasons I would not recommend moving to HR20 is 
1) the equipment is unreliable, I am on my second in one month and it has failed. I know 2 other people that switched and none of them have their original receiver.

2) it is nearly impossible to get a straight answer when there is an issue with these. So that leads to a lot of wasted time troubleshooting and frustration.


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## JohnB1000

Rgonyer said:


> Interesting - So what DTV is telling me is that I need to buy new equipment in order to receive programming that I am already paying for. Excellent business model!


so you'd be happier if they wanted you to pay extra for the programming ???


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## milominderbinder

Rgonyer said:


> Interesting - So what DTV is telling me is that I need to buy new equipment in order to receive programming that I am already paying for. Excellent business model!


No, they are not saying that at all.

As of today, your old equipment still receives your old channels.

You can get dozens of new HD channels if you want to with a new receiver.

We know of many who were able to upgrade for free or close to it. That may change now that the new HD channels are out.

- Craig


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## Sir_winealot

JohnB1000 said:


> so you'd be happier if they wanted you to pay extra for the programming ???


No, I think he'd be happier if he didn't have to spin the wheel and play "The Price is Right" with the D* CSR's in hopes of getting new equipment for that incredible introductory price of $19.99!


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## milominderbinder

milominderbinder said:


> You did great! I did not think there would be any deals once the HD hit.
> 
> You are on step 5 of the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.
> 
> Don't stop now!
> 
> - Craig


What kind of delivery times are you being quoted now?

- Craig


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## Rgonyer

Okay, so what about when everything moves to MP4 and my 2 current receivers are obsolete?


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## Jebberwocky!

then it sucks to be you


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## newsposter

Rgonyer said:


> Okay, so what about when everything moves to MP4 and my 2 current receivers are obsolete?


just in case you or others dont know, SD and OTA will be mpeg2 for a very long time. I just hate the word obsolete. They will still be usable


----------



## Church AV Guy

newsposter said:


> If anyone gets the 721 message on the 'regular' channels like scifi, bravo hd etc, but you have your premium and local HDs, have them turn off your old HD pak and turn on the new one. It took me over 2 hours on the phone with 5 reps, plus the installer at one point, for them to figure out my hdpak wasnt on. DUH i told them I never paid for HD before even and I knew they needed to activate it! But they kept saying i was grandfathered in. I had no clue what they meant but was sure it was a dtv issue as my signals were good.


Did anyone else see the amazing symmetry that he was talking about the 721 message, in message 721 of this thread?! How weird is that?


----------



## newsposter

Church AV Guy said:


> Did anyone else see the amazing symmetry that he was talking about the 721 message, in message 721 of this thread?! How weird is that?


Thank you for noticing. I waited all year to call retention, get the free HR20, then have it installed on a certain day, then have issues to coincide with post 721.

Yes, I'm that good


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## Mitch P.

I just got the following deal after three calls today:

HR20 to replace my HR10-250 $99
XXXX? HD receiver
$10/mo credit for 12mos
$9.99/mo credit for 12 mos
new dish
installation in two days

She told me I now have a very expensive door stop (HR10-250). What bothers me is that I could not get a second HR20 to continue recording in the second room. Is there a way to connect up the new HD receiver in tandem with my HR10-250 so that I can use it as a recorder only??

Good luck everyone else.


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## milominderbinder

Mitch P. said:


> I just got the following deal after three calls today:
> 
> HR20 to replace my HR10-250 $99
> XXXX? HD receiver
> $10/mo credit for 12mos
> $9.99/mo credit for 12 mos
> new dish
> installation in two days
> 
> She told me I now have a very expensive door stop (HR10-250). What bothers me is that I could not get a second HR20 to continue recording in the second room. Is there a way to connect up the new HD receiver in tandem with my HR10-250 so that I can use it as a recorder only??
> 
> Good luck everyone else.


That is the trick: keep the TiVo and add the HR20 in tandem. Use both as recorders.

Keep going. You are on step 5 of the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

- Craig


----------



## newsposter

Mitch P. said:


> . Is there a way to connect up the new HD receiver in tandem with my HR10-250 so that I can use it as a recorder only??
> 
> Good luck everyone else.


the HDtivo can't record from any source other than OTA and directv's signal.


----------



## Mitch P.

newsposter said:


> the HDtivo can't record from any source other than OTA and directv's signal.


exactly. I have only one cable leading to the other location and that will need to go to the newer HD receiver I'm getting. My only choice I believe is to get another drop for that location so that I can still retain the HR10 to record. Either that or just not hook up the new receiver.


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## soulardman

I have been a loyal DirecTV customer for eight years. I called DirecTV TWICE about getting an upgrade for my (now obsolete) HD receiver/Tivo unit. They told me both times that it would cost me $299 -- *JUST TO LEASE THE UNIT*! They told me there is no special upgrade offer for existing customers.

In addition, I sent an e-mail about this issue on Friday. I was told that customer service would contact me in 48 hours. I'm still waiting for a reply!

SO,..I'm switching to DISH today. DirecTV has incredibly poor customer service! :down:


----------



## jimb726

soulardman said:


> I have been a loyal DirecTV customer for eight years. I called DirecTV TWICE about getting an upgrade for my (now obsolete) HD receiver/Tivo unit. They told me both times that it would cost me $299 -- *JUST TO LEASE THE UNIT*! They told me there is no special upgrade offer for existing customers.
> 
> In addition, I sent an e-mail about this issue on Friday. I was told that customer service would contact me in 48 hours. I'm still waiting for a reply!
> 
> SO,..I'm switching to DISH today. DirecTV has incredibly poor customer service! :down:


Did you talk to retention? At this point if you havent, call them back and tell them you are prepared to leave over this (you are) and advise them that the reason you are making the switch is that you were promised an exchange for little to no cost and that you dont consider 299 dollars to be little or no cost. Heck since you are serious about leaving you might be able to get some programming credits out of it as well.


----------



## jmiani

well after much frustration with D* support due to my HD channels missing (721 messages) and they offered me $50 off to upgrade, I decided to call back and said 'Cancel'. I got a great CSR who worked a nice deal for me. $199 with a $100 credit for the HR20 and new dish install. Then I asked nicely for some programming extras.. I got the Premier pak for $69/4 months. It gives me every channel while my current package is $74 for less channels. AND I get the NFL Ticket w/Superfan included AND it includes the HD fee.. If only I could keep that deal forever ;-) But it helps should the cost of the upgrade at least.. Happy again w/D*.

Thanks to everyone for the hint, tip, tricks & links! This forum has saved me big $$ over the years!!


----------



## hauntedsoul

I know you will think I'm crazy ....or stupid. But I cant let go of Tivo. I called and got a HR20 for FREE and a $10 dollar credit for 12 months plus got to keep my hr10-250. My wife than used the rewind button and I heard the sound buka buka buka! I called right back and cancelled! I told DTV they could give me a HR20 for free and $299 and I still would not take it. I'm holding out for Liberty to come to the rescue.........besides I have OTA HD and thats cool.....Who cares if I dont get the food channel, and other crap in HD.


TIVO is electronic crack and I'm a junkie!!!!!


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## Jebberwocky!

hauntedsoul said:


> I know you will think I'm crazy ....or stupid. But I cant let go of Tivo. I called and got a HR20 for FREE and a $10 dollar credit for 12 months plus got to keep my hr10-250. My wife than used the rewind button and I heard the sound buka buka buka! I called right back and cancelled! I told DTV they could give me a HR20 for free and $299 and I still would not take it. I'm holding out for Liberty to come to the rescue.........besides I have OTA HD and thats cool.....Who cares if I dont get the food channel, and other crap in HD.
> 
> TIVO is electronic crack and I'm a junkie!!!!!


you're crazy!


----------



## fasTLane

hauntedsoul said:


> TIVO is electronic crack and I'm a junkie!!!!!


I so understand your plight.

Striving to better, oft we mar what's well. ~William Shakespeare


----------



## bonscott87

hauntedsoul said:


> My wife than used the rewind button and I heard the sound buka buka buka!


Ummm, so what was wrong with the rewind?


----------



## hauntedsoul

Nothing is wrong with the rewind...........I just love the sound it makes!
The TIVO sounds are a big part of the package.............I know I'm nuts. But my Children and lovley Wife, as well as myself get a kick out of it


----------



## toneman

Sorry if the following question has already been answered elsewhere, but...does anyone know if D* is currently offering/shipping only the HR20-700 HD-DVR model...or are they still sending out HR20-100 units? I ask because when I asked the retention rep as to which model I would be receiving, she claimed that she didn't know, and that it was pretty much luck of the draw as to whether I'd wind up w/ a 100 or a 700 model.

In any case, earlier this evening I was able to get D* to offer me a free HR20, free HD programming for 1 year, $5/month credit for 1 year, 3 months HBO/Starz/Showtime for free, pay only S&H for 5-LNB dish and install, and have my existing OTA antenna relocated (or rewired) so that I can have it diplexed to both the HR20 and my existing HR10-250 (I currently have only the HR10-250 on my account, hence the request to have the installer diplex the OTA signal so that I can receive it on both HD-DVR units). Yes, I had to commit to a 2-year contract but that is pretty much SOP when agreeing to these kinds of deals.

And oh yeah--installer will be here this Friday afternoon to perform the install!


----------



## Mitch P.

toneman said:


> Sorry if the following question has already been answered elsewhere, but...does anyone know if D* is currently offering/shipping only the HR20-700 HD-DVR model...or are they still sending out HR20-100 units? I ask because when I asked the retention rep as to which model I would be receiving, she claimed that she didn't know, and that it was pretty much luck of the draw as to whether I'd wind up w/ a 100 or a 700 model.
> 
> In any case, earlier this evening I was able to get D* to offer me a free HR20, free HD programming for 1 year, $5/month credit for 1 year, 3 months HBO/Starz/Showtime for free, pay only S&H for 5-LNB dish and install, and have my existing OTA antenna relocated (or rewired) so that I can have it diplexed to both the HR20 and my existing HR10-250 (I currently have only the HR10-250 on my account, hence the request to have the installer diplex the OTA signal so that I can receive it on both HD-DVR units). Yes, I had to commit to a 2-year contract but that is pretty much SOP when agreeing to these kinds of deals.
> 
> And oh yeah--installer will be here this Friday afternoon to perform the install!


the way I read this - are you saying that the new 5LNB dish will not serve the HR10-250?


----------



## dswallow

Mitch P. said:


> the way I read this - are you saying that the new 5LNB dish will not serve the HR10-250?


The HR10-250 will work with the 5-LNB dish, however diplexing the OTA signal has to be done on one individual coax feeding the HR10-250 since it would otherwise conflict with the Ka-band signals needed by the H20/HR20 and newer receivers.


----------



## newsposter

toneman said:


> Sorry if the following question has already been answered elsewhere, but...does anyone know if D* is currently offering/shipping only the HR20-700 HD-DVR model...or are they still sending out HR20-100 units?


i got a 100 last saturday. Didnt discuss availability though


----------



## RS4

hauntedsoul said:


> I know you will think I'm crazy ....or stupid. But I cant let go of Tivo. I called and got a HR20 for FREE and a $10 dollar credit for 12 months plus got to keep my hr10-250. My wife than used the rewind button and I heard the sound buka buka buka! I called right back and cancelled! I told DTV they could give me a HR20 for free and $299 and I still would not take it. I'm holding out for Liberty to come to the rescue.........besides I have OTA HD and thats cool.....Who cares if I dont get the food channel, and other crap in HD.
> 
> TIVO is electronic crack and I'm a junkie!!!!!


You aren't crazy. :up: Many of us are doing the same thing as you - waiting to see what happens when Liberty takes over before making up our minds. A huge number of people like Tivo as shown by the polls. Some of us like you are willing to forgo the new HD mpeg4 for now.

The polls show that Tivo users want a Tivo mpeg4 unit and I'm hoping the two companies can come up with a product for us.


----------



## pendragn

RS4 said:


> You aren't crazy. :up: Many of us are doing the same thing as you - waiting to see what happens when Liberty takes over before making up our minds. A huge number of people like Tivo as shown by the polls. Some of us like you are willing to forgo the new HD mpeg4 for now.
> 
> The polls show that Tivo users want a Tivo mpeg4 unit and I'm hoping the two companies can come up with a product for us.


I see a lot this "I'm not getting an HR20, I'm waiting for a new TiVo based DVR." I don't understand it. I had an HR10-250 (paid the $1000 for it too) and I recently got an HR20. How does this preclude me from getting a new TiVo based DVR should one come out? How are the people waiting in a better situation than I am? Is it just that they get to use the TiVo interface longer? As far as we know there isn't a design or anything for a new TiVo based DVR. If they decided this morning to make one it would probably be a year or more before it actually got into consumer homes. I couldn't imagine giving up all the new HD channels for more than a year just to keep the TiVo interface. I love it, don't get me wrong. I'm a TiVo fanboy from way back in the day, but I just don't get this.

tk


----------



## Anubys

RS4 said:


> You aren't crazy. :up: Many of us are doing the same thing as you - waiting to see what happens when Liberty takes over before making up our minds. A huge number of people like Tivo as shown by the polls. Some of us like you are willing to forgo the new HD mpeg4 for now.
> 
> The polls show that Tivo users want a Tivo mpeg4 unit and I'm hoping the two companies can come up with a product for us.


that could be a long wait...you have to wait for the takeover, then -- even if Liberty tells Tivo to start making a unit that day -- you'll have to wait at least a year before something is in production...

IMO (and that's what I did), it's better to live without Tivo for that time, enjoy the new HD channels...then make the switch whenever (or if ever!) that mpeg4 Tivo hits the streets...


----------



## milominderbinder

To go back to the topic of the thread...

How are people doing with the upgrade offer? Are you finding success using the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips?

What kind of installation times are you being quoted?

- Craig


----------



## fasTLane

Boy! do we ever need a Tivo in here!


----------



## RS4

Anubys said:


> that could be a long wait...you have to wait for the takeover, then -- even if Liberty tells Tivo to start making a unit that day -- you'll have to wait at least a year before something is in production...
> 
> IMO (and that's what I did), it's better to live without Tivo for that time, enjoy the new HD channels...then make the switch whenever (or if ever!) that mpeg4 Tivo hits the streets...


To many people, content is king and so they have no choice. I've waited all this time for the HD, so I don't mind waiting a little longer.

I feel it would be sending DirecTV a message that I am willing to settle for second best without even having a trial program at home. I don't want to reward a company for coming out with what I and many other people feel is second best when they have given me the best.

Your speculation about waiting a year may be correct, but who really knows? It could be that non-disclosures have been signed and development is already under way. We simply don't know because none of us are directly associated with the negotiations if any.


----------



## fasTLane

RS4 said:


> I feel it would be sending DirecTV a message that I am willing to settle for second best without even having a trial program at home. I don't want to reward a company for coming out with what I and many other people feel is second best when they have given me the best.


+1


----------



## bonscott87

RS4 said:


> I feel it would be sending DirecTV a message that I am willing to settle for second best without even having a trial program at home. I don't want to reward a company for coming out with what I and many other people feel is second best when they have given me the best.


You still don't get that you and your 2000 friends just don't count against 16.5 million subs. DirecTV loves you since you're still paying your bill. The *only* message they will listen to is if you and 250,000 other people all dropped DirecTV in the same month and all stated Tivo was the reason. Other then that they don't notice you and they don't care.

But hey, be the trooper and take one for the team. DirecTV will still gladly accept your money every month.


----------



## toneman

milominderbinder said:


> To go back to the topic of the thread...
> 
> How are people doing with the upgrade offer? Are you finding success using the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips?
> 
> What kind of installation times are you being quoted?
> 
> - Craig


FWIW--I just asked the rep that I was shopping around to see which provider could give me the best deal since my D* 2-year contract had recently expired, and that I was willing to stick w/ D* depending on what kind of deal she could give me (I never once even used the word "cancel"...well technically I did have to use that word once, in order for the IVR to transfer me to retention--LOL!).

As far as installation times go--I called in yesterday (Wednesday) evening, and was given an install date/time of tomorrow (Friday) between 12-5 pm...I'm hoping that it doesn't rain (forecast is for rain that day)...or at least not during that part of the day when the installer is to come out to my place.


----------



## toneman

dswallow said:


> The HR10-250 will work with the 5-LNB dish, however diplexing the OTA signal has to be done on one individual coax feeding the HR10-250 since it would otherwise conflict with the Ka-band signals needed by the H20/HR20 and newer receivers.


Thank you for clarifying what I was trying to say/get across! 

Will I need two (sets) of diplexers--one for the HR10-250 and one for the HR20? Maybe I'm mistaken, but your reply sorta insinuates that a diplexer may not be needed for the HR20; I'm not necessarily saying that you're right or wrong...just looking for clarification so that I'll know what to expect/ask when the installer comes out to install the new dish.

Thanks!


----------



## toneman

newsposter said:


> i got a 100 last saturday. Didnt discuss availability though


Anyone know if there is any significant/practical difference between the 100 and 700, as far as watching D* regular programming is concerned? I was told that the 700 offers interactive features but other than that, both models are essentially the same as far as standard features/storage capacity go; I guess what I'm trying to ask is, would I be missing out on anything of significance if I wind up w/ a 100 vs. a 700?


----------



## Anubys

RS4 said:


> I feel it would be sending DirecTV a message that I am willing to settle for second best without even having a trial program at home.


I honestly do not believe the HR20 to be inferior to the HR10...it's better in many ways...if they add the Dual Live Buffer, the Tivo would have no leg to stand on...


----------



## dswallow

toneman said:


> Thank you for clarifying what I was trying to say/get across!
> 
> Will I need two (sets) of diplexers--one for the HR10-250 and one for the HR20? Maybe I'm mistaken, but your reply sorta insinuates that a diplexer may not be needed for the HR20; I'm not necessarily saying that you're right or wrong...just looking for clarification so that I'll know what to expect/ask when the installer comes out to install the new dish.
> 
> Thanks!


You will need to run a separate line to the HR20 if you want an OTA antenna input, otherwise you'll be interfering with satellite signals the HR20 would otherwise be using from the Ka-band satellites.

If you have the HR10 and HR20 in the same place, just diplex the OTA signal over one or two of those lines and use one of them for the HR20's antenna input.

You'll need one diplexer on each end of the cable. If you're going to feel the HR10 and HR20 from the same OTA signal, you can just use a splitter after the diplexer on the receiver end. Or since the HR10 would have two inputs you could diplex the OTA signal over both of them and have one go to the HR10 and the other to the HR20's antenna input.


----------



## Anubys

toneman said:


> Anyone know if there is any significant/practical difference between the 100 and 700, as far as watching D* regular programming is concerned? I was told that the 700 offers interactive features but other than that, both models are essentially the same as far as standard features/storage capacity go; I guess what I'm trying to ask is, would I be missing out on anything of significance if I wind up w/ a 100 vs. a 700?


seems everyone is getting the 100s...here's a summary of the difference (thanks to BMoreRavens on DBStalk )

The -100 has a 20GB larger hard drive.

The -100 has a digital coaxial and digital optical. The -700 only has the digital optical.

The -700 has a internal RF antenna and the -100 has a external RF antenna.

The -700 receives software updates first. (normal 3 to 5 weeks before)


----------



## hauntedsoul

I am down with that!!! NO 2nd best!


----------



## TivoPete1

I am in Southern California and have been a DTV subsrciber for many years. My current subscription package inlcudes both local (West Coast) and East Coast Network stations. Before I play the "threaten to cancel" card with DTV because of continuing issues over problems caused by the 6.3 software upgrade, I was curious if DTV still offers this option or do I risk losing this feature should I want to come back to DTV later?


----------



## terpfan1980

TivoPete1 said:


> I am in Southern California and have been a DTV subsrciber for many years. My current subscription package inlcudes both local (West Coast) and East Coast Network stations. Before I play the "threaten to cancel" card with DTV because of continuing issues over problems caused by the 6.3 software upgrade, I was curious if DTV still offers this option or do I risk losing this feature should I want to come back to DTV later?


Most likely you'd lose the distant network channels and have local stations only.


----------



## newsposter

dswallow said:


> If you have the HR10 and HR20 in the same place, just diplex the OTA signal over one or two of those lines and use one of them for the HR20's antenna input.


you are assuming no multiswitch use correct? I dont diplex but for the benefit of others clarification would be in order. I thought if a M/S is introduced into the mix, diplexing was a no no. Or is it just that you diplex coming out of the MS and to the receiver?


----------



## jkrell

I hate to give up TiVo as I really like the interface and I am a shareholder too. But I think it is bunk that I will be missing the MP4 HD channels. So I am thinking about (a) switching to cable and getting a couple of the S3 HD TiVos or (b) upgrading to a couple HR20s (for no more than $20 of course) and keeping my HR10-250s. One of the HR10-250s will go to a bedroom so my wife can still have the TiVo interface that she loves.

On the other one, I am wondering... can I cancel service to it and still use it as an OTA HD DVR? It would be cool to throw it somewhere and use it to backup all our network season passes. Right now I use an SD TiVo for that and I hate having to watch shows in SD once in a while.

So, the question is can you use the HR10-250 solely as an OTA DVR w/o DirecTV?


----------



## pendragn

jkrell said:


> So, the question is can you use the HR10-250 solely as an OTA DVR w/o DirecTV?


It gets the guide data from DirecTV so at the very least you'll lose that. I don't know if you'd be able to use it for timed recordings or not.

tk


----------



## newsposter

jkrell said:


> So, the question is can you use the HR10-250 solely as an OTA DVR w/o DirecTV?


definitely no sorry. But i do 'think' you can rewind and FF in the 30 minute buffer. You must be subbed to do any recording whatsoever.

Also you must enter the channels manually like 67-1 (i think), yes I think a lot


----------



## dswallow

newsposter said:


> you are assuming no multiswitch use correct? I dont diplex but for the benefit of others clarification would be in order. I thought if a M/S is introduced into the mix, diplexing was a no no. Or is it just that you diplex coming out of the MS and to the receiver?


You'd diplex on the cable after the multiswitch.

Oh, and you know I meant to talk about the new SWM -- single wire module -- that DirecTV is still testing out. It can coexist with OTA antenna signals and uses a single coax to support 5 or 8 different tuners (depending on the SWM size). Unfortunately you can't just order one yet.


----------



## jkrell

newsposter said:


> definitely no sorry. But i do 'think' you can rewind and FF in the 30 minute buffer. You must be subbed to do any recording whatsoever.


So that's how they get you here -- 2 year minimum and they know you will move the HR10 to another room and pay another $5 per month for essentially nothing. You have to sit back and admire this business model...

I guess I could sell it on eBay...


----------



## pbadss

So the installer came today and everything went smoothly .. so I thought. Tonight I try to watch TNT, but it's unwatchable with artifacting, skipping etc. The other channels look ok. I go to the Satellite Test page on the HR20 and the following info shows on the 1-32 transpoder on the 101 satellite

Most everything is 95+ except 
4: 42
12:32
20:42
26:0

I assume that's where the problem lies? Should I call DTV or is this something I can fix myself?

Thanks.


----------



## bonscott87

newsposter said:


> you are assuming no multiswitch use correct? I dont diplex but for the benefit of others clarification would be in order. I thought if a M/S is introduced into the mix, diplexing was a no no. Or is it just that you diplex coming out of the MS and to the receiver?


You *can* diplex but only after the multiswitch but not on any lines going to the HR20 or any other MPEG4 receiver. These need a "home run" OTA line directly do them.

But you could diplex in OTA to any lines going to an HR10-250 or other OTA capable receiver.


----------



## RS4

pbadss said:


> So the installer came today and everything went smoothly .. so I thought. Tonight I try to watch TNT, but it's unwatchable with artifacting, skipping etc. The other channels look ok. I go to the Satellite Test page on the HR20 and the following info shows on the 1-32 transpoder on the 101 satellite
> 
> Most everything is 95+ except
> 4: 42
> 12:32
> 20:42
> 26:0
> 
> I assume that's where the problem lies? Should I call DTV or is this something I can fix myself?
> 
> Thanks.


You can get technical help for the HR20 at dbstalk.com I would suggest looking there in addition to here.


----------



## toneman

bonscott87 said:


> You *can* diplex but only after the multiswitch but not on any lines going to the HR20 or any other MPEG4 receiver. These need a "home run" OTA line directly do them.


Dang, I didn't know about that one caveat...thanks for the timely post! In that case, diplexing won't do me much good since I have both an HR20 (arriving today) and an HR10-250 that I want to feed OTA signals to. Guess I'll either have to split the OTA signal from the antenna so that I can run a second OTA line (or diplex this second OTA line so that I won't have to physically install another long cable run to the HR10-250), or buy a second OTA antenna so that each receiver gets its own dedicated home run OTA line.

Speaking of splitters--what kind of splitter is required to split the OTA signal w/o any significant loss of signal strength/quality?

And yes, I realize that D* offers HD locals in my area but I have my reasons why I would prefer to have an OTA line connected to my HR20...


----------



## rlj5242

pbadss said:


> Most everything is 95+ except
> 4: 42
> 12:32
> 20:42
> 26:0
> 
> I assume that's where the problem lies? Should I call DTV or is this something I can fix myself?


 You can't fix those unless you can control spot beam satellite at 101. Those are spot beam transponders that are NOT pointed at your area. That part of your system is working just fine.

-Robert


----------



## DLiquid

jimb726 said:


> Did you talk to retention? At this point if you havent, call them back and tell them you are prepared to leave over this (you are) and advise them that the reason you are making the switch is that you were promised an exchange for little to no cost and that you dont consider 299 dollars to be little or no cost.


Anyone have a link to the statement from D* about the little to no cost exchange thing? I think it was about a year or two ago. I'm have no luck with the search terms I'm using.


----------



## bonscott87

toneman said:


> Speaking of splitters--what kind of splitter is required to split the OTA signal w/o any significant loss of signal strength/quality?


Doesn't really matter to be honest. I have a $10 RCA model I got at Walmart.

I have one line from my OTA antenna going to my media closet in the basement. In there it goes to a 3-way splitter with one run going to the HR20 next door, the other 2 runs go back upstairs into the main house cabling system (not useful for sat obviously).

So you could do a similar thing, get the 1 OTA cable to a central point, split it and then run cables to your receivers. If your sat cables are in the same location then you could diplex it into your sat run after the multiswitch to the HR10.


----------



## newsposter

toneman said:


> Speaking of splitters--what kind of splitter is required to split the OTA signal w/o any significant loss of signal strength/quality?


home depots stuff works fine for me...is split right behind both tivos stacked and i have no issues


----------



## DLiquid

A swing and a miss. I have two HR10s and I called to order two HR20s. The best I was offered was $300 for both HR20s, then $10 off my bill for 12 months. Once you add in shipping that comes to $100 for each HR20. I'd like to do better than that. Anyone having any luck lately?

On another note, I want to install the Slimline dish on my chimney. I know the D* installers are not going to be willing to do this, so I was going to hire a professional installer. But I need the dish. D* told me the only way to get the dish free is to have their installers install it. So I guess I could have them install it in the wrong place and then have my installer move it, but that seems so silly. Another option is to buy the dish from newegg for $110. There has to be a better way. Anyone know a way around this?


----------



## zdude1

I guess I'm getting the major screw-job here.....

I have 4 HR10-250's and 2 HTL-HD (just HD receivers). My system consists of the 3LNB dish and 3 8-output multiswitches cascaded to give me the 10 feeds in the locations that I need them (1 in the attic to feed units upstairs, 2 in the basement to feed the basement and ground floor units).

I called and used "cancel" to get to Retention.
1st call a couple days ago: offered 1 HR20, dish, install for $299. :down: 
Then they offered to break it down to 3 monthly payments to make it affordable :down: :down: 

2nd call just now: Complete swap of all 6 receivers for 4 HR20's and 2 non-dvr HD receivers, dish, install for $594 + free shipping  :down: or, to just replace one HR10, it would be $299. :down: :down: :down: 

The second guy said that high demand is why they aren't offering anything better right now, and that they may have a better offer at a later time. A lot of good that does me......

I have a feeling that I'll be bailing Dec. 15th because I like to watch the MMA fights on HDNet, but I'm not into paying the extra $5/mnth just because they decided to move those 3 channels to a new package. I'd leave now, but I have NFL-ST, and we're not even half-way thru the season yet. I'll try a couple more times in the next few days, but I have little confidence right now.

Anyone have a link to the outlined process to follow in trying to get the $19.99 deal? I've searched here and dbstalk, but keep coming up empty. I know I saw it a few days ago...you know, the one which talks about your "heart" rating at D*...


----------



## bonscott87

4 HR20s and 2 other HD receiver for $600 sounds like a pretty good deal to me. You aren't going to get them all for $19.99. Maybe try one more time but I'm not sure you'll get much better then that unless you threaten to leave. Maybe have them toss in a years worth of free HD Extra pack. Good luck.


----------



## zdude1

bonscott87 said:


> 4 HR20s and 2 other HD receiver for $600 sounds like a pretty good deal to me. You aren't going to get them all for $19.99. Maybe try one more time but I'm not sure you'll get much better then that unless you threaten to leave. Maybe have them toss in a years worth of free HD Extra pack. Good luck.


Thanks. I agree that it's not a real bad deal if I truly wanted to swap out all equipment, but I was not really interested in swapping out all 6, and I told him that. I wanted to just swap out one HR10 for the HR20. In fact, I told him I'd like to keep the HR10 in place and add the HR20 to the same location, requiring 2 new feeds run, because I have content on the HR10 I want to keep. He said that right now, based on their current offers, it looks like "it's all or nothing", and that is a direct quote from him. Take the above deal for $594, or pay $299 for one. Obviously a no-brainer if I really wanted to swap out everything. I told him I would have to go for the "nothing", and in fact, I'll take 6 of them! 

Oh yeh, I didn't even mention this to the rep, because I'm sure he could see this kind of info on his screen, but I've been with D* for 8 years, had NFL-ST auto-renew every year, never had less than 3 receivers sub'd.


----------



## Mitch P.

well I've been living with the new HR20-100 for a few days now. The installers put in a multi-switch and I was able to keep the HR10-250 running together with the HR20-100 and the H20. All these years I have not been using a multi-switch and they were shocked - oh well, didn't know any better.

I have to say that I am a bit disappointed with the HR20-100. It really is not up to par against the Tivo unit I was used to. I really do not like the guide - having to scroll right at a snails pace compared to being able to see many hours of advance to the right with the Tivo unit. The "list" of recorded programs isn't as nice either. It works, don't get me wrong but it just is not in the same league in my opinion. I'll get used to it I'm sure, but for the most part I could have waited as I'm not really seeing that much of a gain with the supposed "new" HD channels - many of which look to be upsampled non HD feeds. I'm holding out hope that more channels will come on line with true HD feeds and that I'll be happier.

My ultimate wish is if Tivo and DirecTV come to an agreement and I can get back to an MPEG4 Tivo again.


----------



## toneman

zdude1 said:


> Thanks. I agree that it's not a real bad deal if I truly wanted to swap out all equipment, but I was not really interested in swapping out all 6, and I told him that.


Well if you're okay with not having all 6 receivers swapped out, then why not just ask for having just two of them swapped out (talk to another rep if necessary)? If you go that route, then it won't have to be an "all or nothing" deal like what the rep told you; D* is quite willing to throw in one HR20 and one non-DVR HD receiver for "free" (if you get the right person) for a 2-year commitment. You might (and that's stretching it a bit) be able to get them to throw in another HD receiver for free but you definitely won't be able to get a second HR20 unit for free--I tried, and was told I could only ask once every six months. I probably could have gotten an H20 for free but I didn't want to add a third receiver to my account, instead choosing to rather use my HR10-250 as my second receiver.


----------



## zdude1

toneman,
Thanks. for the tip. I'll try that on my next attempt. It would be good to get 1 HR20 and 1 H20(?)


----------



## newsposter

Jebberwocky! said:


> aren't folks still getting deals ?? This thread could last forever and still be useful for some


this is how long forever is

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1230360&postcount=3329

thread closed. One has to think it's because people got too many deals. If the thread was in the wrong forum, it could have been moved, not shut down. But since he asked another not been started, you have to assume there's a 'reason'.

There weren't a lot of flame wars or anything even, just general good info.

oh well, i got mine, hope everyone else gets theirs


----------



## dswallow

Why is milominderbinder "Milominderbinder2" over there; I can't believe someone else already used that name!


----------



## milominderbinder

DLiquid said:


> A swing and a miss. I have two HR10s and I called to order two HR20s. The best I was offered was $300 for both HR20s, then $10 off my bill for 12 months. Once you add in shipping that comes to $100 for each HR20. I'd like to do better than that. Anyone having any luck lately?
> 
> On another note, I want to install the Slimline dish on my chimney. I know the D* installers are not going to be willing to do this, so I was going to hire a professional installer. But I need the dish. D* told me the only way to get the dish free is to have their installers install it. So I guess I could have them install it in the wrong place and then have my installer move it, but that seems so silly. Another option is to buy the dish from newegg for $110. There has to be a better way. Anyone know a way around this?


Here are a couple of things to try...

First, here are the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link. Please click the link to the agreement to see details about the contract.

In addition, many are having success with the Big Ten Offer. Up to 2 HR20's, through 10/31/07.

In addition, here is the email that HR10 users are having success with.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

dswallow said:


> Why is milominderbinder "Milominderbinder2" over there; I can't believe someone else already used that name!


I wanted to be milominderbinder2 here as well. TC would not let me. 

The first Milominderbinder was in Catch 22.

- Craig


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> I wanted to be milominderbinder2 here as well. TC would not let me.
> 
> The first Milominderbinder was in Catch 22.
> 
> - Craig


What's the deal? Why did they kick out your thread over there? Gosh, I thought guys that were in DirecTV marketing would be treated better than then that.


----------



## toneman

milominderbinder said:


> Here are a couple of things to try...
> 
> First, here are the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link. Please click the link to the agreement to see details about the contract.
> 
> In addition, many are having success with the Big Ten Offer. Up to 2 HR20's, through 10/31/07.
> 
> In addition, here is the email that HR10 users are having success with.
> 
> - Craig


As I posted in another thread, I don't think that Big Ten offer lets you get two HR20 DVRs for free; heck, I don't know of anyone who was able to get D* to throw in *two* free HR20s as part of a retention deal (on the same order).


----------



## shanew1289

I didn't have to haggle. I got a free swapout immediately. Apparently I "qualified". She did have to put me on hold for one sec. Then said "When you want it installed"

All I did was use the voice recognition and said "Cancel". 

Did have to pay $19.95 handling fee.


----------



## Tom_Parker

OK, I must be cursed.

Even after years of being a great multiple unit, prompt paying customer, the best Directv offered me was $199 for the new HR20, installation of a new dish and whatever configuration multiswitch I'd require.

I asked the CR to check, and that was it. I declined, figuring I'll see what CR Roulette brings me next time.

I did the voice recognition cancel several times before it knew what to do with my call.

Suggestions welcome.


----------



## Helipilot

I called to upgrade my bro-in-laws (3) HR10-250's and was told that they can only upgrade 2 every 6 months and I would have to lease (still at $299) the other unit thru a third party retailer and have that unit available when the installer comes with the other two. What kind of BS is that about???


----------



## robnalex

toneman said:
 

> I don't know of anyone who was able to get D* to throw in *two* free HR20s as part of a retention deal (on the same order).


I got 2 for free (initial $300 credit plus another $300 in programming credits over 12 months) through retention just last week. First the Rep offered one HR20 for free and said he couldn't give me 2 for free. I then asked if he could offset the cost of the 2nd one with program credits and he said "Sure!" I've been a customer for 5 years and was outside my last 2 year commitment.


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## kjnorman

To follow up on a post I made about a week ago, I am moving house and I have the choice of two cable companies at the new location.

Initially I was offered a HR20 for $199, $19.99 S+H plus $240 in programming credits over 12 months. I was JUST out of my contract. At the time they would not give me a second HR20 and stated that I could buy one though a retail outlet. I declined at the time but got them to note the account.

Well after checking the cable offerings I decided there really was no competition to Directv so I went back to them.

They confirmed that the offer was still good, and I tried again to get the second HR20 but no can do. So I reluctantly accepted after confirming that I would get the dish, multi-switch and six lines of cabling installed. 

Then during the setting up of the order I asked "Well I am having to get an antenna installed for my hi def locals as my HR10 won't tune the new MP4 channels. Will the installer also include the diplexers for the antenna signal?"

With that she replied "The HR10? That's fairly old. Wait, I'll see what I can do..."

About 2-3 minutes later..

"Sorry for the delay. We can do a second HR20 for $99 to replace the HR10?"

I accepted! Considering all the stories I was reading of people not getting deals anymore I decided to not push my luck and accept. So while not as good as the deal for the person above me, I am happy.

So the install is this Saturday and the cost:

2x HR20 ($199 + $99 + 19.99 + tax)
Installation: new dish, multi-switch, up to 250 cable (which will be pretty tight for 6 lines).
S&H

$334.41 including tax.

less 12 months of credits 12 * $9.99, 12 * $10 = $256.07 (incl Tax)

totals $78.34

I keep both my HR10-250 and my DRV2 (though I will decommission this one). I still need to feed my HR10 as well as the HR20 with an antenna line, so I guess I will have to install my own diplexers now or run some dedicated cable


----------



## toneman

robnalex said:


> I got 2 for free (initial $300 credit plus another $300 in programming credits over 12 months) through retention just last week. First the Rep offered one HR20 for free and said he couldn't give me 2 for free. I then asked if he could offset the cost of the 2nd one with program credits and he said "Sure!" I've been a customer for 5 years and was outside my last 2 year commitment.


I guess yours was the exception rather than the norm...not to take anything away from your deal--anytime you can get two free HR20s at no (net) cost is a sweet deal by any means!

FWIW--it didn't occur to me to perhaps ask if I could have the cost of a second HR20 be offset by programming credits like what you did (kudos to you for having the smarts to think of that)...but since D* was willing to give me $15 in credits that aren't offsetting anything on my account, my monthly balance will be $15 lower for the next 12 months (= $180 in cash that I don't have to give to D*). After my 12 months of credits have expired, I reckon I could then call D* to see if they'll give me another HR20 (or whatever the current HD DVR model happens to be at that point) for free; sure I'll have to make do w/ just one HR20 until then but that's not a big deal for me since most of my D* HD viewing currently takes place in the family room anyways.


----------



## robnalex

toneman said:


> I guess yours was the exception rather than the norm...


I don't think so. I think any long-term customer who is not currently in a service commitment and has HR10-250s that can't get the new channels should be able to get a similar or better deal, even if it means repeat calling to get a receptive retention rep. Check out the Let's Make A Deal thread over at DBS:


----------



## DLiquid

milominderbinder said:


> In addition, here is the email that HR10 users are having success with.
> 
> - Craig


Thanks, the e-mail did the trick (I just clicked on Contact Us on their website). I received a reply with a PIN code. I then called in and got two HR20s for free. He said there was a problem with the computer system, so to do this he needed to charge my account $299 for the first HR20, plus $99 x 3 payments for the second HR20. He then credited my account $398 and canceled the second and third $99 payments, so the net cost to me is $0. I get to keep my two HR10s. The install of my new dish is scheduled for tomorrow. This did not require a new 2-year commitment. I have one year left on my commitment and he said this would not change. He made a note of this on the account.

He offered me this deal right off the bat. Seems too good to be true. I'll definitely be monitoring my bills to make sure the whole charge and credit thing works out as he said it would.

Note that I say HR20, but he said it could be an HR21 if that's what the installer has in stock. I'd like to keep OTA going, at least for the short term, so I hope it's an HR20.


----------



## wxman

I just called to get my HR10-250 upgraded to an HR20. Without any haggling the CSR gave me an HR20 and 5 LNB dish for no charge, not even a delivery charge. And not only that but they scheduled me for the upgrade the very next day. The only caveat was that they told me the installer would insist on taking the HR10-250 back. I asked if I could convince him otherwise and the CSR said not likely because since it's a free swap the installer would lose money on the deal. I don't recall reading about any such experiences in the umpteen other threads on this topic and was curious whether anyone else had encountered this and whether they were able to talk the installer out of taking it with him. Ideally I'd like to have both going at least for a while so I can watch what I have on the 10-250. But it wouldn't be a total loss if I was forced to give it up. I thought it might also help with the transition to the new unit and DVR software. But again, not the end of the world.


----------



## JohnB1000

On my first HR20 they (DirecTV) wanted it back but I talked them out of it. On the 2nd more recent one, they never even asked. Your experience is not in sync with all the recent upgrades (ho ho) where everyone is getting to keep the HR10. I doubt the installer cares at all.

I would suggest calling back and trying to get yourself allowed to keep it officially.


----------



## jfischer

I got to keep my HR10-250 with my upgrade last week. They didn't ask to take it, and I told them it was just being relocated to where the HDVR2 was (which was retired but not taken by DirecTV).

I paid $1,000 for my HR10-250, I'm going to keep using it as long as I can!


----------



## wxman

jfischer said:


> I got to keep my HR10-250 with my upgrade last week. They didn't ask to take it, and I told them it was just being relocated to where the HDVR2 was (which was retired but not taken by DirecTV).
> 
> I paid $1,000 for my HR10-250, I'm going to keep using it as long as I can!


Good to hear. I'm in the same boat. I paid for the damn thing so I should be able to keep it. I just called the installer and they said that since I bought the unit they wouldn't take it back. Hopefully they won't give me any hassle tomorrow.


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## toneman

robnalex said:


> I don't think so. I think any long-term customer who is not currently in a service commitment and has HR10-250s that can't get the new channels should be able to get a similar or better deal, even if it means repeat calling to get a receptive retention rep. Check out the Let's Make A Deal thread over at DBS:


Hmmm, in that case I'm guessing that maybe the rep would not give me a second HR20 for free because I have only one *HD* DVR on my account; could it be that you had at least two HD DVRs on your account prior to calling D* to see what they could give you?

FWIW--I was able to get one free HR20 on the first (and so far, only) call/try so I don't think it was a matter of D* not wanting/willing to accommodate me, but that for whatever reason they weren't willing to go as far as to give me a second HR20 for free...maybe in part due to the fact that I'm not one of their more-lucrative accounts--I subscribe to just the TC package, have only one extra receiver on my account, and have never ever ordered PPVs or subscribed to any of the pro sport packages (e.g. NFL Sunday Ticket, etc.) and premium channels...so those things might have been a factor in D* not willing to give me another HR20 for free.


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## newsposter

retraction..sorta

http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1235972&postcount=3330

you can now post in the general area (wherever that is) and make your own deal a separate thread


----------



## dswallow

newsposter said:


> retraction..sorta
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1235972&postcount=3330
> 
> you can now post in the general area (wherever that is) and make your own deal a separate thread


They had one nice, simple place to discuss all those deals, and now they're gonna be deluged with individual threads from a myriad of people and no one will be able to make any sense of anything. People looking for advice and suggestions won't easily find it and probably will resort to their own threads asking about it.

The extraordinary stupidity and inconsistency of decisions over there continues to amaze me.

(BTW, you should be able to delete one of your double posts yourself, just edit the message and there should be a delete option.)


----------



## DLiquid

My install went smoothly. I got an HR20-700 (possible refurb) and an HR20-100 (new). I got to keep my HR10s. He mounted the dish on the chimney, which I didn't think they were supposed to do, but that's actually where I wanted it.

Is there any way to turn off this obnoxious blue LED ring?


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## milominderbinder

DLiquid said:


> ...Is there any way to turn off this obnoxious blue LED ring?


It's over at DBSTalk in this link:

134 Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks 

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

milominderbinder said:


> Here are a couple of things to try...
> 
> First, here are the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link. Please click the link to the agreement to see details about the contract.
> 
> In addition, many are having success with the Big Ten Offer. Up to 2 HR20's, through 10/31/07.
> 
> In addition, here is the email that HR10 users are having success with.
> 
> - Craig


We are hearing of a number of people getting the BigTen deal.

Also, the email is working for HR10 users.

They are cutting back on credits though. Many are now only getting $299 as a best offer. Follow the steps in the ordering tips to see what you can do.

Good Hunting!

- Craig


----------



## tucsonbill

So I've read all the threads about the deals that used to be, and supposedly are no more. Spent time wondering what I'm willing to pay for the HR20, and finally called this morning. Told the CSR that I have two HR10s and now understand that I can't receive the new HD channels with them. Asked what I need and what it costs to upgrade to something that will. He transferred me to "a group we have specifically to handle that question". I repeated and the lady told me that I qualified for a free HD receiver. I said I didn't want a receiver, that I wanted a DVR. She said "let me check something". Came back and said we can give you one HD DVR for free, but you'll have to pay for the second one. I said, "I'll take the free one. One is all I need." Installation scheduled for next week. Before hanging up, I verified one more time that absolutely nothing will be charged to my account. I have no idea how many hearts I am. Enough, I guess. Bottom line you don't know till you try.


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## bpratt

> Before hanging up, I verified one more time that absolutely nothing will be charged to my account. I have no idea how many hearts I am. Enough, I guess. Bottom line you don't know till you try.


Nothing is charged except you now have a new two year commitment with D*.


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## MikeAndrews

joelq said:


> Call 1-800-DIRECTV and when the recording asks you the reason for your call, say "cancel service". The recording should come back and clarify whether or not you want to cancel service, or change your service (or something to that effect), say again "cancel service". You should be transferred immediately.
> 
> That's what I did about 4 weeks ago and I got a free 5-LNB dish and HR20.


Or when you get sick of having to deal with the stoopid ACD asking the wrong questions of you for the 4th or 5th call SWEAR and/or SCREAM CANCEL and you don't get asked a second time.

I bought an H10-250 off eBay and moved my install to a new house. Evey installer was a certfied bozo of DirectSat. I've had literally 9 home service calls due to my one Hughes SD DTiVO constantly having fade and artifacts. D* charged me $70 for the last call.

Besides that I'm paying nearly $100 a month for a few HD channels and HBO. I don't even have an HDTV (yet). 

I've been a D* sub since 1999. I fully intend to cancel soon.

I'll prolly hold my nose and go with Comcast/TiVo eventually, if I don't decide to get by with OTA. I'll go with AT&T Uverse as soon as it shows up.

It's really sad that there are no good alternatives. The DirecTiVo was the hottest setup going and they had to screw it up.


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## tucsonbill

netringer said:


> Or when you get sick of having to deal with the stoopid ACD asking the wrong questions of you for the 4th or 5th call SWEAR and/or SCREAM CANCEL and you don't get asked a second time.


So what kind of upgrade deal did that get you?


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## milominderbinder

A couple of updates:

These are the last few days for the Big Ten Offer. Up to 2 HR20's, through 10/31/07.

Here are the steps that others have used successfully: HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link. Please click the link to the agreement to see details about the contract and the fact that any new receiver will create a new 2-year contract.

Finally, here is the email that HR10 users are having success with. Here is the email link to use.

- Craig


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> A couple of updates:
> 
> These are the last few days for the Big Ten Offer. Up to 2 HR20's, through 10/31/07.
> 
> Here are the steps that others have used successfully: HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link. Please click the link to the agreement to see details about the contract and the fact that any new receiver will create a new 2-year contract.
> 
> Finally, here is the email that HR10 users are having success with. Here is the email link to use.
> 
> - Craig


Thanks for the sales pitch update  I hope you're getting a good commission.


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## BBHughes

No deal for me when I tried to get a second HR20 to replace the HR10-250 that I moved to another TV when I got my last HR20 a couple of months ago. Best they would do is 299.


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## milominderbinder

BBHughes said:


> No deal for me when I tried to get a second HR20 to replace the HR10-250 that I moved to another TV when I got my last HR20 a couple of months ago. Best they would do is 299.


Sorry about that. The deals were non-stop prior to the 60 new HD channels...

Still, are you using the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips? Click each link especially the Agreement link to see this will create a new 2-year contract.

Does the Big Ten Offer work for you?

Have you tried sending an email like this one to here?

At some point if your HR10 stops working reliably, they still seem to be doing the free replacements and you can keep your HR10.

- Craig


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## LlamaLarry

Craig, thanks to the strong UMF from this thread I dropped an email, got a PIN and called in today. I got one of my HR10's replaced for $0. The rep could not swing a deal to replace the other 2, but did tell me I get to keep my HR10 (and take one of the SD DVRs offline) and to try again maybe after the end of the year to see if a new deal is possible.

Install is scheduled for next Friday, supposed to come with new 5LNB dish and "an advanced multiswitch" since I currently have 12 tuners on my account. As soon as the order appears on the website (how long does that take) I'll make sure that the install date and instructions make sense. Any magic words to help the installer get the switch setup I need correct the first time? 

Off to read the manual PDF and pore over DBSTalk.

I *really* wanted to wait for SWM, but since the national release is too unknown I just could not pass up on any more HD goodness.


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## newsposter

order is instantly on website. But my M/S wasnt listed. Unsure why

oh and i'm disappointed in the manual. I dont know why but it just seems HDtivos was so much larger and this one doesnt seem to cover all you would want to know


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## LlamaLarry

OKay, my order is on the website now, but definitely no mention of the MS setup I'll need for all 12 tuners.


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## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> Sorry about that. The deals were non-stop prior to the 60 new HD channels...
> 
> Still, are you using the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips? Click each link especially the Agreement link to see this will create a new 2-year contract.
> 
> Does the Big Ten Offer work for you?
> 
> Have you tried sending an email like this one to here?
> 
> At some point if your HR10 stops working reliably, they still seem to be doing the free replacements and you can keep your HR10.
> 
> - Craig


Keep up the good work, Craig!! Remember folks - his kids need to eat.


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## shadowbozo

Called in to DTV to see what the offer was today. I ended up getting the H20 for free, new dish installed for free with no commitment.

I asked if there was anything else they could offer but this was the best they could do.

Let's see how different it is from the Tivo unit.


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## ebonovic

Very different... considering the H20 is not a DVR...

Did you mean the HR20 ?


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## fjwagner

This worked for me.

"I would like a new HR20 for only s/h. I have been a customer for a long time as your records will show." Thanks alot. Fred

PS: No BigTenOffer or HR20 tips needed.


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## incog-neato

I emailed them and got their PIN number for a callback. Called them back and they gave me 1 free HR20 + new dish and free HD access for 1 year. Gonna stick this one on my HD ready computer monitor to play with and see what happens. I use them day-in-day-out at work and personally don't care for the interface or the remote but have to see what my wife thinks about it before replacing the one on the big plasma. My 3 HR10's are all suddenly starting to reboot daily (haven't had any problems at all with them for 2+ years). Once I have the new dish I can always get the other 2 TiVo's replaced through their service plan as they die off.


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## incog-neato

Don't count on the "no commitment" part.


shadowbozo said:


> Called in to DTV to see what the offer was today. I ended up getting the H20 for free, new dish installed for free with no commitment.
> 
> I asked if there was anything else they could offer but this was the best they could do.
> 
> Let's see how different it is from the Tivo unit.


----------



## bosny

So I have an HR10-250 I purchased Oct. '05. After reading posts here, I called to see about swapping out and upgrading to the HR20 to take advantage of the new HD channels. First agent, first offer-new HR20, new dish and installation for $19.99. I know others are getting some additional monthly discounts, but am happy and decide to place the order. Now I have had my installation and have really come to like the new set-up. Yesterday, my bill comes and I have been charged $19.99 PLUS $299 for my new box. I call CS and explain and am told no notes on my account reflect a free box. Furthermore, no one has gotten a free box since all offers ended over three months ago. Best she can do is $10/month discount off of my bill for 12 months and a $99 credit. This seems highly unfair. She told me accept the offer she had given me as the next agent might not even go that far for me. I am feeling rather taken advantage of. If the agent I made my appointment with had not offered a free box, I would have called again and tried to find one who would make that offer. Any advice?


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## silverstreak

bosny said:


> So I have an HR10-250 I purchased Oct. '05. After reading posts here, I called to see about swapping out and upgrading to the HR20 to take advantage of the new HD channels. First agent, first offer-new HR20, new dish and installation for $19.99. I know others are getting some additional monthly discounts, but am happy and decide to place the order. Now I have had my installation and have really come to like the new set-up. Yesterday, my bill comes and I have been charged $19.99 PLUS $299 for my new box. I call CS and explain and am told no notes on my account reflect a free box. Furthermore, no one has gotten a free box since all offers ended over three months ago. Best she can do is $10/month discount off of my bill for 12 months and a $99 credit. This seems highly unfair. She told me accept the offer she had given me as the next agent might not even go that far for me. I am feeling rather taken advantage of. If the agent I made my appointment with had not offered a free box, I would have called again and tried to find one who would make that offer. Any advice?


I would be calling every 5 minutes until they took the $299 off your bill. You have to keep calling, and calling and complain, yet be civil about it.


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## newsposter

this is funny, i had the install 3 saturdays ago...yesterday i got confirmation of the install listing the '3lnb' and other equipment. It also said i was paying full price but of course i am not. 

so WHY would they not have updated their form letter to 5lnb (it's been over a year since the dish has been out right?) and dont they know about the credits they are giving me? And what's the point of an install letter received 3 weeks after the install happened?


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## incog-neato

I recorded my (45 minute) conversation "just in case" as I know what goes on very well. This way there is no question of who I spoke to, their badge number, what office they are in, and exactly what she said. It will go on a CD for posterity.


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## grein002

Well, my phone call could not have gone any easier, save the 20-minute hold to get a rep on the phone... 

I told him I had bought an HR10-250 in 2/06 and at the time was told that the upgrade to the new HD-DVR would be free, or very nearly so, when the new model was available, and that I was ready to explore upgrading. He said "No problem. The new model is normally $299 plus $19.95 S/H, but since you were promised the upgrade, I'll waive the $299 -- all you will need to pay is the $19.95 S/H" 

I verified that $19.95 is all I would have to pay, and he said yes. I got his name and ID. He scheduled me for 10/30 AM install, which is good since the HR10-250 started rebooting every 30-60 minutes this weekend. Also made sure I would get a new dish and multiswitch. He said a 6x8 switch is built-in to the dish. Is this correct? 

I checked my account online, and it shows the following: 

10/28/2007	HD-DVR Upgrade - Adv Equip Credit $-199.00 $-13.44 
10/28/2007	HD-DVR Upgrade - Charge $199.00 $13.44 
10/28/2007	$19.95 Delivery and Handling - Charge $19.95 $1.35 

Will update when install occurs.


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## dswallow

grein002 said:


> He said a 6x8 switch is built-in to the dish. Is this correct?


No, the built-in multiswitch has only 4 outputs.


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## Mrudo

Wrote customer service to replace my HR10-250, H10, and an old UTV and received a PIN code to call back.
Called back and through a 20 minute conversation, most of it on hold, and some Spanglish (seriously, no joking) They offered the following.
(1) HR20 and (2) H20's for a total of $211.85 including taxes & shipping etc.
Naturally they want an install company to bring the boxes so I can hook them up myself and send these guys on their merry way instead of shipping directly to me. 

I told them I would think about it and they noted it on my account. While it's not a BAD deal to get 3 receivers for $71 a piece, I still think maybe a credit or two would convince me. I do save money by discontinuing my UTV which costs me an additional $10 a month just for that receivers guide data.
Should I call back with the same PIN or will that not work?


What do you all think?


----------



## dswallow

Mrudo said:


> What do you all think?


I think if the deal were (2) HR20's and (1) H20, and the dish and installation, it might be possible to spin it as a good deal. After all while the UTV may be old, it's still a DVR. And they're expecting you'd find it acceptable to replace it with a non-DVR. And for all it matters, they give away H20's, so your (1) HR20 and dish/install that many get for $19.95 is costing you $211.85.


----------



## shadowbozo

incog-neato said:


> Don't count on the "no commitment" part.


I will keep checking this once I have the H20/H21 installed. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Mrudo

dswallow said:


> I think if the deal were (2) HR20's and (1) H20, and the dish and installation, it might be possible to spin it as a good deal. After all while the UTV may be old, it's still a DVR. And they're expecting you'd find it acceptable to replace it with a non-DVR. And for all it matters, they give away H20's, so your (1) HR20 and dish/install that many get for $19.95 is costing you $211.85.


Well, I already have the new dish and 1 HR20 that I upgraded earlier this year.

I don't care if the UTV replacement is a DVR since the location only has 1 line running to it and I don't have SWM. Plus we don't record anything on it anyways, since we already have 2 DVR's in the house. HR20 in the bedroom, and HR10 in the basement.

How should I go about trying to convince them to lower it even more? Just ask for credits?


----------



## LlamaLarry

What model DVRs have folks actually been getting? I'm suddenly paranoid I'll get an HR21 and not be able to record OTA. 

Should I call in to make sure the install notes reference my 12 outputs so they come with the right MS? Can they cascade a WB switch to my existing BMS-58?


----------



## robnalex

LlamaLarry said:


> What model DVRs have folks actually been getting? I'm suddenly paranoid I'll get an HR21 and not be able to record OTA.
> 
> Should I call in to make sure the install notes reference my 12 outputs so they come with the right MS? Can they cascade a WB switch to my existing BMS-58?


I can't answer your multi-switch question, but there is lots of good info over at DBSTalk about what folks are getting and future prospects for OTA.


----------



## Mrudo

Well, called back and got a better deal.
Got both HR20 for free, but still $99 for the H20's. They also threw in 12 months of free DVR fee and 12 months of HD fee.
Between free DVR and HD fees, and getting rid of $10 UTV fee monthly fee, I actually wind up making $90 over the year
Spent 55 minutes on the phone, but the woman was so nice and apologized it took so long.
What the heck, I was billing for work typing while on hold, so no worries for me.


----------



## phox_mulder

Called with my emailed PIN today and got an HD DVR for $150 plus the $19.95 s&h.

Install could have been tomorrow, but I pushed back to Thursday as I'm not working.

Asked what model and phone guy had no idea, just whatever the installers happen to have with them.

5lnb dish, new multiswitch that can handle my 7 current lines, will be 8 when I drop a standalone receiver and add in the new DVR.

Keeping my purchased HR10 obviously.

Found out I've only been a customer for 2 1/2 years, and not a good customer at that.
Never bought PPV, never had a sports package, never had NFL Sunday Ticket, only have 2 premium channels.

I think I got a pretty good deal, and was very surprised at the quick install date.


phox


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## gmanhdtv

Saturday, the installer arrived with my two (2) HR21's to replace my two (2) hr10-250's. I owned one of the hr10's and the other was a leased unit provided in April of 2006 at no charge. My total out of pocket for the two HR21's was $19.95. 

I only subscribe to total choice package and the hd package. Total of four (4) receivers on the account. Never buy the ppv movies or events, no NFL Sunday ticket or anything else. My bill is $80 a month, subscriber since 1997. 

Directv paid for my service move from Kansas to Florida in 2005, a dish upgrade in 2006 when they provided the second HR10-250 at no charge. And now a new slimline dish, 4X8 multiswitch, and two (2) HR21's. I have no issues receiving the ota locals and would have gladly accepted the HR20's if they had them, but the Florida installers have been out of inventory of the HR20's for almost a month. Directv also told me I could keep the leased HR10-250 as they did not want it back! So maybe with a little luck, I will be able to sell them on Ebay! 

Talk to a rep, get a pin#, wait 2-3 days if the offer is not good enough and then try again. I did, and the net cost went from $199 to $19.95........


----------



## newsposter

gmanhdtv said:


> Saturday, the installer arrived with my two (2) HR21's to replace my two (2) hr10-250's. I owned one of the hr10's and the other was a leased unit provided in April of 2006 at no charge. My total out of pocket for the two HR21's was $19.95.


did you request them? This could be a serious issue for people who need OTA.


----------



## 94SupraTT

Called again today. Got an offer of $19.95 (shipping) for a HR20. They said it was $199 and they would give me an instant credit for $199, and also give me 1 free year of HD. I might pull the trigger now.


----------



## gmanhdtv

newsposter said:


> did you request them? This could be a serious issue for people who need OTA.


I tried to push when ordering, they would not guarantee a HR20. The installer was a very considerate person. Called several other tech's while I listened in and none had any HR20"s and he claimed they were not in their warehouse. I would have liked to be able to keep ota ability with the HR20, but, can't look a gift horse in the mouth. I still have one of my HR10-250's active and have not lost the ability to record ota if desired. Watched Heroes tonight on my 110" wide screen on my RS1 projector and have no complaints about the video quality of the hd locals on the HR21! YMMV


----------



## toneman

bosny said:


> So I have an HR10-250 I purchased Oct. '05. After reading posts here, I called to see about swapping out and upgrading to the HR20 to take advantage of the new HD channels. First agent, first offer-new HR20, new dish and installation for $19.99. I know others are getting some additional monthly discounts, but am happy and decide to place the order. Now I have had my installation and have really come to like the new set-up. Yesterday, my bill comes and I have been charged $19.99 PLUS $299 for my new box. I call CS and explain and am told no notes on my account reflect a free box. Furthermore, no one has gotten a free box since all offers ended over three months ago. Best she can do is $10/month discount off of my bill for 12 months and a $99 credit. This seems highly unfair. She told me accept the offer she had given me as the next agent might not even go that far for me. I am feeling rather taken advantage of. If the agent I made my appointment with had not offered a free box, I would have called again and tried to find one who would make that offer. Any advice?


Here's something that future upgrade candidates might be able to learn from incidents like the one above--when talking on the phone w/ the rep who is processing your "free" upgrade order, at the same time log into your D* account so that you can see the order being applied to your account in near real-time (you might have to refresh the page every so often to see the updates). This is exactly what I did, and I could see the freebies being applied to my account while I was talking to the rep. By doing this, you can see if your account is being credited correctly...and be able to talk to the rep right there and then if you see something that looks incorrect.


----------



## daleykd

I thought I might share my little upgrade story, seeing as how I'm floored at how fortunate I was.

Last year I wanted to get my first HD DVR, so I pleaded with a CSR to get me a HR10-250. She placed the order, and when the installer showed up at the door, it was NOT an HR10. I refused it and called back. Finally, they said I could go to BestBuy and purchase an HR10, and they'd reimburse me for the entire purchase.

Pretty cool for my first HD DVR.

Last month, I got a new TV and wanted to try the HR20. After talking with the first rep, I decided it wasn't worth it yet. I spoke with 2 more, then finally got one who started off at $299, went to $199, then to $99, then to $19.99 S&H.

Got my 2nd HD DVR for $20.

Last night, I called D* since my HR10-250 was rebooting randomly (at the time, I didn't realize everyone else was having the problem). I wondered if I could still exchange the HR10 with an HR20 for $20. I spoke with the first rep who immediately escalated me. Without even saying anything more than "my HR10 is rebooting randomly," the agent asked if I wanted the unit shipped to the installer or my house. I said "my house." She then said "you're good to go." 

!?!?!? "You mean no $20 S&H?" "No, sir", she explained, "and you don't even have to send us your HR10."

So, in less than a year, I have 3 HD DVRs for $20.

w00t.


----------



## Jim Abbett

I called using my pin from a previous email. I got the $199 and free HD for six months offer. I told them I'd think about it. 

I waited five minutes and called back through the regular DTV phone number. A different gal offered me a new HD DVR for $199 plus shipping minus a $175 credit. I keep my HR10-250 that I purchased 2 years ago. She didn't seem to know which DVR would be included this time. She noted on the order that it must be a DVR that accepts OTA inputs. We'll see what shows up. 

That's a net cost of about $47. Not to shabby. 

(I've been a customer since 1996.)

Any advice if the wrong DVR shows up?


----------



## milominderbinder

94SupraTT said:


> Called again today. Got an offer of $19.95 (shipping) for a HR20. They said it was $199 and they would give me an instant credit for $199, and also give me 1 free year of HD. I might pull the trigger now.


It appears that many HR10 users are still getting this deal.

Others are paying more in most cases.

You are on step 5 of the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link especially the Agreement link to see this will create a new 2-year contract.

If you are an HR10 user try sending an email like this one to here?

At some point if your HR10 stops working reliably, they still seem to be doing the free replacements and you can keep your HR10.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

Jim Abbett said:


> Any advice if the wrong DVR shows up?


Follow the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

Use the link to the installation tips to see how to reach the installation company to verify which receiver you are getting. If it is the wrong one, call DIRECTV.

- Craig


----------



## grein002

grein002 said:


> Well, my phone call could not have gone any easier, save the 20-minute hold to get a rep on the phone...
> 
> I told him I had bought an HR10-250 in 2/06 and at the time was told that the upgrade to the new HD-DVR would be free, or very nearly so, when the new model was available, and that I was ready to explore upgrading. He said "No problem. The new model is normally $299 plus $19.95 S/H, but since you were promised the upgrade, I'll waive the $299 -- all you will need to pay is the $19.95 S/H"
> 
> I verified that $19.95 is all I would have to pay, and he said yes. I got his name and ID. He scheduled me for 10/30 AM install, which is good since the HR10-250 started rebooting every 30-60 minutes this weekend. Also made sure I would get a new dish and multiswitch. He said a 6x8 switch is built-in to the dish. Is this correct?
> 
> I checked my account online, and it shows the following:
> 
> 10/28/2007	HD-DVR Upgrade - Adv Equip Credit $-199.00 $-13.44
> 10/28/2007	HD-DVR Upgrade - Charge $199.00 $13.44
> 10/28/2007	$19.95 Delivery and Handling - Charge $19.95 $1.35
> 
> Will update when install occurs.


Just to follow up: Installer was scheduled for 8AM-12Noon. He called at 11:50AM to say he was just finishing up his prior call and would be at my house shortly. An hour later, he was still a no-show. I called D* and explained the situation. The rep offered me a $100 credit on my account, which I accepted. The installer didn't show for another hour.

He brought an HR20-100.

103(b) transponders range from 88-95.

Everything works OK so far.


----------



## khark

I called yesterday and asked for the best deal to upgrade to 2 HR20s and the deal I got was $199 plus $19.95 delivery for 2 HR20s. 

They also gave me free HD access for 1year ($119.88 value) and 3 months of Cinemax ($36 Value) plus a $50 retention credit.

Of course I had to pay my local sales tax.

I won't get the install until Nov. 17 but these are going to replace my Philips SD Tivos and I will keep my 2 HD10-250s.


----------



## Pipper

My cancellation problem:

Like others, I upgraded to the HR10-250 in 02/06 with the promise that I would receive a free upgrade to the HR20 and 5LNB dish in the future. The best offer that I could obtain last month was for a total cost of $298 billed in two separate orders: the first (9/27) was for a HD receiver and a DVR for $99; the second (10/5) was for a swap of the HD receiver with a 2nd HR20 for $199, so that Id have two HR20s when all was said and done. Also, they were going to take away my 10-250 (which I paid for, not leased).

After deciding that I didnt like having to pay $298 when I was told that the upgrade would be free, I called prior to the install on 10/10 and cancelled. I was very polite. The retention rep was very polite, but she didnt offer to reduce the price, so we cancelled, and she said that shed process both credits. The first $99 credit was processed instantly. Two weeks later, the $199 charge had not been credited. I called twice about this, and each rep said that it had been escalated to a specialist.

Yesterday, 10/30, I sent an email to CS explaining the issue. The reply stated that they researched my account and saw that I received credit for $99 on the SECOND order (not true, it was on the first order: they didnt research back to 9/27), so they refunded me $100. If you can follow my convoluted story, they still owe me $99. Today they responded to my follow up email saying that its been referred to a specialist.

Is there a more effective way for me to handle this? I dont want to have to pay the $99 in order to avoid past due charges on my current bill.

Thanks


----------



## Jebberwocky!

don't pay your bill for starters.


----------



## Monkeybiz

Keep trying for the best deal, CSRs are human and make mistakes, have them make notes to your account. I also confirmed the transactions online. They want to give the deals to people that are courteous and understanding. That said you do have to be persistant while being friendly. I complained about having my install cancelled and the runaround with other CSRs so the lady gave me Showtime and also $5/mo off for 3 months with the $19 total cost. 

The original $19 install of a HR20 got bounced around after a field survey went bad. Got the OK to plant it 200ft out so good to go. Had several different reschedules up to a month out but ended up with one next Monday somehow. She must of liked my jokes.


----------



## Mr. Big

When I got home this evening there was a message on my answering machine from DTV saying that they're offering me a free upgrade to my HD service. So I called and they're installing a free HR20 and 5LNB dish this Saturday. I kept asking if there was any cost to me and the rep said it only required a 2-year commitment.


----------



## milominderbinder

Mr. Big said:


> When I got home this evening there was a message on my answering machine from DTV saying that they're offering me a free upgrade to my HD service. So I called and they're installing a free HR20 and 5LNB dish this Saturday. I kept asking if there was any cost to me and the rep said it only required a 2-year commitment.


What number did they have you call?

Can you keep your HR10?

Follow the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

You are on step 5. Click that link to confirm your order. Still click each link and do each step.

In particular, see the link for the Installation Guide.

If you want to ever be able to receive HD Locals (OTA), confirm with the installation company and then with the installer that they will bring an HR20, not an HR21.

- Craig


----------



## Mr. Big

milominderbinder said:


> What number did they have you call?
> 
> Can you keep your HR10?
> 
> Follow the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.
> 
> You are on step 5. Click that link to confirm your order. Still click each link and do each step.
> 
> In particular, see the link for the Installation Guide.
> 
> If you want to ever be able to receive HD Locals (OTA), confirm with the installation company and then with the installer that they will bring an HR20, not an HR21.
> 
> - Craig


I did absolutely nothing to get the deal... I just got a call out of the blue from DTV so I know nothing about the steps. I don't have the number they had me call with me right now but I'll post it later when I get home. They did confirm that I'd be getting the HR20. I kept asking them if there was anything that I'd have to pay and the rep said that I didn't have to pay a single penny. Don't know if I can keep the HR10 but I don't care seeing that they gave it to me for free to begin with. I'll report back tomorrow after they do the installation and let you know if things worked out. I did notice, though, that my 2-year agreement runs out this month so maybe that had something to do with it?


----------



## incog-neato

There are specific DMA's where D* is doing just that. It's stated as such in their subscriber system.


Mr. Big said:


> When I got home this evening there was a message on my answering machine from DTV saying that they're offering me a free upgrade to my HD service. So I called and they're installing a free HR20 and 5LNB dish this Saturday. I kept asking if there was any cost to me and the rep said it only required a 2-year commitment.


----------



## Jim Abbett

Mr. Big said:


> When I got home this evening there was a message on my answering machine from DTV saying that they're offering me a free upgrade to my HD service. So I called and they're installing a free HR20 and 5LNB dish this Saturday. I kept asking if there was any cost to me and the rep said it only required a 2-year commitment.


Now I feel like I got ripped off paying a net of $46.


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## samike2004

I finally had to see what this HR20 is like. So I called DirecTV and asked why I am not getting all these new HD channels. I have 2 HR10-250 boxes, and they offered two new HR20 boxes for free, only 19.99 shipping. They will do the install, included multi-switches, and new 5 LNB dish. I asked how I will get HD locals since they are not available in my area and I use a OTA antenna. They said the new HR20 will support the OTA antenna. I said I thought it didnt support OTA. The rep swore three times it would work with OTA antenna. Anyway install happened and now I have 2 x HR20 and 2 HR10-250s.

After 3 days of using the HR20 I have to say its interface is terrible, *TERRIBLE*. For anyone to say that the HR20 is comparable to the HR10-250 I would have to say they are crazy. Already I had one missed recording on one of the units. I am extremely disappointed in the HR20. Its half the box of the HR10-250. On top of that the new HD channels are lacking programming, after 3 days I find myself using my HR10-250s more than the new units. Biggest upside is the Starz HD content thats available. Without the locals in HD its fairly tough to sell me, as I watch a considerable amount of my TV on the networks. I had to run extra cable to my OTA antenna that was next to my old dish, drill holes through the wall and connect my HR10-250 to get locals in HD!!! I am considering having DirecTV come out and take the boxes back, I feel bad for the old guy that was the installer, he was at the house for 4.5 hours getting the dish and wiring installed.


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## 94SupraTT

milominderbinder said:


> It appears that many HR10 users are still getting this deal.
> 
> Others are paying more in most cases.
> 
> You are on step 5 of the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link especially the Agreement link to see this will create a new 2-year contract.
> 
> If you are an HR10 user try sending an email like this one to here?
> 
> At some point if your HR10 stops working reliably, they still seem to be doing the free replacements and you can keep your HR10.
> 
> - Craig


I'm going to see if they will waive the $5 charge for the extra receiver for 1/year. If so I will pull the trigger. I'm tough to please.


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## jerryj

With D*, you can't be sure what you have even when it looks like everything went ok. I got a call a few days ago offering a "free" upgrade to the new HD hardware. I called and got a very nice csr who offered me 2 H20 dvrs and dish for free. I was told there would be a $668 charge on my bill followed by a $668 credit so I shouldn't get upset. Ok, we set up an installation date for next Wed. Later, I checked the D* web site, and the orders page showed the two receivers for $668 and amount paid of $668. But the activity page showed an amount due of $453! Then this morning, the installation date vanished and it said I had to reschedule. I called and was told that the original order was input wrong and would have to be cancelled. A new order was generated, but now I was only getting one dvr and one regular receiver. Still at no cost and the installation date slipped to Friday. Tonight I checked the web again, and the order looks ok but the activity page still shows that I owe $453. I'm not sure how to get that charge off my bill. I suspect I'm going have to cancel everything and start over. Any ideas?


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## cyphers72

Honestly, this is a TiVo forum. I feel icky after 30 pages of this thread just now. It's disappointing how many sheep just blindly went from TiVo to no-name lame DVR brand just to get some upsampled channels. You can't seriously believe the HR20 is any good do you? I have a friend who got one so at least I didn't have to be clueless. He even cancelled and paid the huge termination fee because of how much it sucked.

It's TiVo or the highway folks. There is no inbetween. I've seen the HR20, been abused by a ReplayTV, fallen in love with S3 TiVo. I have both cable and DirecTV right now and now that cable is all set I'm more than happy to cancel DirecTV if they don't rapidly announce a new TiVo box. If they only announced one, I'd be happy to give them up to a year to release it without cancelling. I just need absolute assurance and I need it within about 30 days as I'm remodeling and need to buy new equipment. It's either going to be a bunch of S3 TiVos or I'll temporarily reuse the HR10s I have until a real DirecTiVo is released. The delay in full, unabridged TiVo support here for me, a 17 year DirecTV customer, is totally unacceptable.


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## narrod

cyphers72 said:


> Honestly, this is a TiVo forum. I feel icky after 30 pages of this thread just now. It's disappointing how many sheep just blindly went from TiVo to no-name lame DVR brand just to get some upsampled channels. You can't seriously believe the HR20 is any good do you? I have a friend who got one so at least I didn't have to be clueless. He even cancelled and paid the huge termination fee because of how much it sucked.
> 
> It's TiVo or the highway folks. There is no inbetween. I've seen the HR20, been abused by a ReplayTV, fallen in love with S3 TiVo. I have both cable and DirecTV right now and now that cable is all set I'm more than happy to cancel DirecTV if they don't rapidly announce a new TiVo box. If they only announced one, I'd be happy to give them up to a year to release it without cancelling. I just need absolute assurance and I need it within about 30 days as I'm remodeling and need to buy new equipment. It's either going to be a bunch of S3 TiVos or I'll temporarily reuse the HR10s I have until a real DirecTiVo is released. The delay in full, unabridged TiVo support here for me, a 17 year DirecTV customer, is totally unacceptable.


If your expecting an answer in 30 days you should go ahead and cancel. Not going to happen. Dump DirecTv and enjoy cable and the S3. I have two HR20s
and both have performed quite well. I no longer miss Tivo at all. Whatever floats your boat.


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## flapbreaker

I took the plunge and had D* upgrade me to an HR-21. My HR-10 was has been acting up lately and didn't want to spend money on a new Hard drive when it's becoming a dinosaur. I've only used Tivo based DVR's and was real leary of anything else. I must say that I am pleasantly surprised. No, I don't think the HR-21 is quite as user friendly as a Tivo but so far I actually like it better. It does more things and seems way faster in the menu or setting up a recording. I didn't realize how much time I spent waiting for TIvo to think until I got the HR-21. I only offer this report for those that are affraid that they might hate anything other than Tivo. I'm sure my HR-21 will have problems at some point but so has every Tivo I've ever owned.


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## Ramblinn

fasTLane said:


> I so understand your plight.
> 
> Striving to better, oft we mar what's well. ~William Shakespeare


Perhaps the more appropriate quotation would be from Othello when he laments himself as "one who loved not wisely but too well."

The dude stabbed himself right after. All we have to do is call Retention.

-Pat


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## dshmel

I got one HR21 with slimline dish and install for $19.99. Got HBO and Showtime for 3 months plus 12 months of HD access credit ($10/month). So far, I am okay with HR21. Time will tell if it has glitches like my 2 HR10's.


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## hepcatz

flapbreaker said:


> I took the plunge and had D* upgrade me to an HR-21. My HR-10 was has been acting up lately and didn't want to spend money on a new Hard drive when it's becoming a dinosaur. I've only used Tivo based DVR's and was real leary of anything else. I must say that I am pleasantly surprised. No, I don't think the HR-21 is quite as user friendly as a Tivo but so far I actually like it better. It does more things and seems way faster in the menu or setting up a recording. I didn't realize how much time I spent waiting for TIvo to think until I got the HR-21. I only offer this report for those that are affraid that they might hate anything other than Tivo. I'm sure my HR-21 will have problems at some point but so has every Tivo I've ever owned.


I did the same and had similar impressions...have you had problems with your HR21 yet...I am on 0x18a and have had two complete lockups so far...I miss the tivo...but the new box is quicker with a few things...


----------



## flapbreaker

hepcatz said:


> I did the same and had similar impressions...have you had problems with your HR21 yet...I am on 0x18a and have had two complete lockups so far...I miss the tivo...but the new box is quicker with a few things...


I have not had any lockups or hicups for that matter. I don't know what software I have but the installer did force it to call in and dowload the latest one before he left.


----------



## o2bonn

I've monitored the boards for about a month on HR10-250 owners and upgrades. Sadly, I missed the wild and wooly September deals that others described. I called in early October and got through to retention. The best deal they would offer for 1 HR20 was $299 minus $100 plus a $120 programming credit. I probably would have had to pay $19.95 also. They would not do much on a 2nd HR20 - $199. I called back today and played the "you promised me an upgrade to new technology for little or no cost" that other HR10-250 owners have been using. So, here is what I got: 2 HR20s at $99.66 each plus $19.95 each. Then a $10 x 12 months credit; a 9.99 x 12 months credit; a 5.99 x 12 months credit; and 3 months of Showtime (I have HBO). And I get to keep my HR10-250s. I do not know if I could have done better but at some point one just wants to be done with it ...


----------



## cyphers72

I actually got a message on my answering machine this weekend from DTV saying that it was urgent I upgrade from HR10-250s now before I lose my programming and they will upgrade valued customers like me completely free. I've never called them about this as I've been getting cable all setup in home so I can choose between them freely. It's really offensive how they're going about this in such a dishonest fashion calling it an "upgrade" even though it's not TiVo. I pity the people who have been taken in by this marketing nonsense.

I will call them in the next couple days to let them know they have 30 days to announce a new TiVo.


----------



## mikehome

cyphers72 said:


> I actually got a message on my answering machine this weekend from DTV saying that it was urgent I upgrade from HR10-250s now before I lose my programming and they will upgrade valued customers like me completely free. I've never called them about this as I've been getting cable all setup in home so I can choose between them freely. It's really offensive how they're going about this in such a dishonest fashion calling it an "upgrade" even though it's not TiVo. I pity the people who have been taken in by this marketing nonsense.
> 
> I will call them in the next couple days to let them know they have 30 days to announce a new TiVo.


lol..... im sure they will get right on it.....


----------



## milominderbinder

o2bonn said:


> ...I called back today and played the "you promised me an upgrade to new technology for little or no cost" that other HR10-250 owners have been using. So, here is what I got: 2 HR20s at $99.66 each plus $19.95 each. Then a $10 x 12 months credit; a 9.99 x 12 months credit; a 5.99 x 12 months credit; and 3 months of Showtime (I have HBO). And I get to keep my HR10-250s. I do not know if I could have done better but at some point one just wants to be done with it ...


You are on step 5 of the HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

Make sure you use the link to confirm your order. Still click each link and do each step.

In particular, see the link for the Installation Guide. There is a lot that you can do to insure a great installation.

If you want to ever be able to receive HD Locals (OTA), confirm with the installation company and then with the installer that they will bring an HR20, not an HR21.

- Craig


----------



## gobble

I just went through about 5 calls to Directv and ended up canceling my service. They would not replace my HR10's for just the shipping. Best I could do was one free and one for $299. I didn't want to cancel but I'm not about to buy new receivers when I just bought the HR10's in the last two years.


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## Rgonyer

Way to stand up. I'll probably do the same thing once Sunday Ticket is over this year if they haven't changed their tune by then.


----------



## newsposter

milominderbinder said:


> If you want to ever be able to receive HD Locals (OTA), confirm with the installation company and then with the installer that they will bring an HR20, not an HR21.
> 
> - Craig


I haven't looked at your other posts/lists lately but if you haven't already put in a disclaimer that no matter what the CSR tells you, you will not be guaranteed a particular receiver, I recommend doing so. If you have, 2 pts to you  Just trying to avoid someone thinking they can order a particular receiver from directv, which we all know is literally impossible.

and for the record i'm thrilled with my 19.95 hr20 except for minor signal problems which may just be meter related. (software)


----------



## khark

I got the call last night offering to replace my two HR10-250s for free including free shipping.

I told the woman that I already had an installation scheduled for 11/17 but I was paying for it even though they had given me several rebates and credits. She put me on hold and when she came back she said my previous installation could be canceled and a new order placed.

I asked if I could keep my old units and she said "yes you can since you own them" and I told her that I wanted to keep the HR10-250s active and that I would deactivate the two Philips 6000s. She said that would be OK.

I now have the installation scheduled for 11/21 so it turns out the call saved me around $100 or so and I don't need to wait for my programming credits over a year's time.

I asked whether I would be getting the HR20 or HR21 and she said probably HR20 but that it all depends on what the installer has in stock. 

The OTA isn't that big a deal to me since I am over 100 miles from the "local" transmitters so my OTA reception is pretty sporatic.


----------



## incog-neato

So true. I had an HR21 installed Monday (after requesting a 20 directly from the install contractor). 20's are pretty much out of stock other then some retail stores. I've been told by our national distributors that they won't be getting any more 20's but they said the same thing a few months ago and then got them back so it's anyone's guess. It seems the only way to get one now is as a reconditioned replacement. It seems most recons are 20's because the 21's are still too new to have filtered back for reconditioning.



newsposter said:


> I haven't looked at your other posts/lists lately but if you haven't already put in a disclaimer that no matter what the CSR tells you, you will not be guaranteed a particular receiver, I recommend doing so. If you have, 2 pts to you  Just trying to avoid someone thinking they can order a particular receiver from directv, which we all know is literally impossible.
> 
> and for the record i'm thrilled with my 19.95 hr20 except for minor signal problems which may just be meter related. (software)


----------



## incog-neato

Take the 1 free one and take the protection plan for $5.95/mo. (Gotta keep PP for a year or pay a $10 early cancel fee). When the 2nd HR10 finally dies you'll get a "free" HR20/21.


gobble said:


> I just went through about 5 calls to Directv and ended up canceling my service. They would not replace my HR10's for just the shipping. Best I could do was one free and one for $299. I didn't want to cancel but I'm not about to buy new receivers when I just bought the HR10's in the last two years.


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## Rgonyer

I'd like to receive this magic call! I wonder how they are choosing who to call. Also, what's the issue with the HR21 and OTA? Does it not have it at all?


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## RS4

Rgonyer said:


> I'd like to receive this magic call! I wonder how they are choosing who to call. Also, what's the issue with the HR21 and OTA? Does it not have it at all?


The HR21 does not have OTA at all. There are rumors over on dbstalk.com that D* is going to do something else for those boxes to allow them to get OTA. I assume that means some kind of usb add on. My guess is that they will want the customer to pay for the feature.

In several of the D* financial calls, they said the HR20 cost them about $400 and they would soon have the cost around $300, so I assume that not having the OTA in the box is one way they have reduced the cost.


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## newsposter

hr21 doesnt have ota, no


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## jimb726

o2bonn said:


> I've monitored the boards for about a month on HR10-250 owners and upgrades. Sadly, I missed the wild and wooly September deals that others described. I called in early October and got through to retention. The best deal they would offer for 1 HR20 was $299 minus $100 plus a $120 programming credit. I probably would have had to pay $19.95 also. They would not do much on a 2nd HR20 - $199. I called back today and played the "you promised me an upgrade to new technology for little or no cost" that other HR10-250 owners have been using. So, here is what I got: 2 HR20s at $99.66 each plus $19.95 each. Then a $10 x 12 months credit; a 9.99 x 12 months credit; a 5.99 x 12 months credit; and 3 months of Showtime (I have HBO). And I get to keep my HR10-250s. I do not know if I could have done better but at some point one just wants to be done with it ...


Better how?? They paid you to take the two recievers and yuo dont think you got a good deal? Your two recievers were 240 dollar and you got 343 dollars in programming credits, assuming my math is correct. Sounds to me like the deal of the century, especially now that the well has dried up.


----------



## Rgonyer

So if they ship me a HR21, I won't have my OTA, which is probably 75% of what we watch on TV.... lol. HD Locals aren't available in my area on DTV, and even if they were, I'd prefer the uncompressed feed OTA. Maybe time to ditch Sat all together and just go with OTA and a nice HDTivo. Would sure make things easier.


----------



## jimb726

Rgonyer said:


> So if they ship me a HR21, I won't have my OTA, which is probably 75% of what we watch on TV.... lol. HD Locals aren't available in my area on DTV, and even if they were, I'd prefer the uncompressed feed OTA. Maybe time to ditch Sat all together and just go with OTA and a nice HDTivo. Would sure make things easier.


If Directv has the content you want, you may want to wait and see what they do for the HR21 users. There has been a lot of speculation of some type of add on, perhaps through the USB port, to be able to add an over the air antenna.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Rgonyer said:


> So if they ship me a HR21, I won't have my OTA, which is probably 75% of what we watch on TV.... lol. HD Locals aren't available in my area on DTV, and even if they were, I'd prefer the uncompressed feed OTA. Maybe time to ditch Sat all together and just go with OTA and a nice HDTivo. Would sure make things easier.


HD feeds to me are as good as the OTA feeds.

OTOH, the disk space taken up by the uncompressed recordings is huge compared to the HD Feeds.

I can do either but I choose to record the compressed to save space.

My dish was out of alignment for 5 days and I had to record using OTA signals - my drive filled up so fast it was amazing.


----------



## gobble

Do they charge you extra to get HD over the dish? Is it cheaper if you're able to get OTA HD?


----------



## jimb726

gobble said:


> Do they charge you extra to get HD over the dish? Is it cheaper if you're able to get OTA HD?


At this point I am pretty sure that if you have a H 20/21 or an HR 20/21 you have to pay the 9.99 HD access fee. That fee covers the locals and the HD channels that do not have a SD counterpart. Effective 12/15 7 (I think) additional channels will be grouped into a different tier that costs 4.99/month.


----------



## o2bonn

Well for one thing I would have much preferred to have the upfront discounts through free equipment rather than programming credits. I calculated my offset as 120 + 120 + 72. The 90 days of showtime is nice but not something I would normally pay for. I am happy with the deal but I feel like I had to really work for it compared to others that are being offered free equipment without asking.


----------



## jimb726

o2bonn said:


> Well for one thing I would have much preferred to have the upfront discounts through free equipment rather than programming credits. I calculated my offset as 120 + 120 + 72. The 90 days of showtime is nice but not something I would normally pay for. I am happy with the deal but I feel like I had to really work for it compared to others that are being offered free equipment without asking.


Even at that point they are still paying you 72 dollars to take their machines. Honestly, given what a lot of people are saying now, you did really well. Most people are getting zero discounts at this point and when they threaten to leave, they are simply getting their bluff called.


----------



## gobble

Has anyone figured out why some get a better offer than others? Does it have anything to do with me getting a discount on my HR10's?


----------



## LlamaLarry

My install (ordered on 10/26, 1st appt Nov 2, missed appt Nov 2, 2nd appt Nov 7, for $19.99) is finally all done. The installer did a good job hanging and aiming the dish, but the work order did *NOT* have the correct MS so I have a WB68 with 3 DVRs with no feeds. 

He also neglected to use the shiny new, not connected to anything, leads I had and instead took them off the HR10. The diplexors in the line messed with the ability to tune 103b so 60 mins of pn the phone with DirecTV they decided the box was bad and are sending me a new one.

30 mins after they left I found the problem and got all the MPEG4 HD goodness flowing.

Now all I need to do is call DirecTV and remind them that they left me hanging with $15/month in DVRs disconnected. Maybe I can get them to let me keep the DVR already on order as well.


----------



## incog-neato

No, 2 of my 3 my HR10's all came from non D* sources for free and my first one for $249 with free credits to cover most of that from D* about 1 1/2 yrs ago. It depends on what programming you currently have, what area of the country you live in and what your payment record is with them. It also depends on what CSR you get as well. The best place to live now for free HD equipment is the LA area and all the areas where the STANDARD DEF LOCALS are coming off the new Mpeg4 sats.


gobble said:


> Has anyone figured out why some get a better offer than others? Does it have anything to do with me getting a discount on my HR10's?


----------



## Michael.Chrisco

When I tried to get a service discount the agent I talked to said something about that giving me the swap for free just used up his credit amount for the week and I would need to call back and get someone else.


----------



## o2bonn

Jebberwocky! said:


> HD feeds to me are as good as the OTA feeds.
> 
> OTOH, the disk space taken up by the uncompressed recordings is huge compared to the HD Feeds.
> 
> I can do either but I choose to record the compressed to save space.
> 
> My dish was out of alignment for 5 days and I had to record using OTA signals - my drive filled up so fast it was amazing.


 Would you say the Local Hd and the OTA are close in quality or do you notice the difference to the extent that someone not worried about space would care? Also, do you have a sense of how much more space the OTA takes up over the Local HD?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

o2bonn said:


> Would you say the Local Hd and the OTA are close in quality or do you notice the difference to the extent that someone not worried about space would care? Also, do you have a sense of how much more space the OTA takes up over the Local HD?


I can't really notice the difference - the old mpeg2 feeds OTOH were noticably weaker.

"Record up to 200 hours ofstandard-definition programming, up to 30 hours of HD (MPEG-2) programming or upto 50 hours of HD (MPEG-4) programming"

I am assuming OTA is much worse than MPEG-2


----------



## kkluba

gobble said:


> Has anyone figured out why some get a better offer than others? Does it have anything to do with me getting a discount on my HR10's?


I don't know for sure but I think these are the factors that come into play when they are giving offers. Maybe they have a scoring system for customers that CSR's can look at.

- Already an HD customer or not
- Level of service you pay for
- How long you've been a customer
- Are you under a service contract
- Are there new services coming online in your area

I think the new services coming online is why I have gotten a slew of flyers from Comcast, D* and recent calls from D* offering dish and equipment upgrades for free. ATT UVerse is rolling out in my area and D* would like to get me under a two year deal before they do.


----------



## incog-neato

Could be true, They did just drop the amount of credits reps are allowed to give without mgmnt approval. Maybe the best day to call is Monday. 


Michael.Chrisco said:


> When I tried to get a service discount the agent I talked to said something about that giving me the swap for free just used up his credit amount for the week and I would need to call back and get someone else.


----------



## RS4

incog-neato said:


> Could be true, They did just drop the amount of credits reps are allowed to give without mgmnt approval. Maybe the best day to call is Monday.


Wait for Milo to answer - he's the inside marketing guy - he'll know why


----------



## bonscott87

RS4 said:


> Wait for Milo to answer - he's the inside marketing guy - he'll know why


Why wait, the quarterly results call yesterday explained this in detail.


----------



## bonscott87

Jebberwocky! said:


> I can't really notice the difference - the old mpeg2 feeds OTOH were noticably weaker.
> 
> "Record up to 200 hours ofstandard-definition programming, up to 30 hours of HD (MPEG-2) programming or upto 50 hours of HD (MPEG-4) programming"
> 
> I am assuming OTA is much worse than MPEG-2


In order of best PQ:

1) OTA HD by far the best quality but really depends on each local affiliate and if there are subchannels
2) MPEG4 HD - very close to OTA PQ in most markets. National channels rival FIOS on quality (this is based on many reviews including long time DirecTV critic Scott G at Satguys)
3) MPEG2 HD - by far the worst PQ

OTA is MPEG2 so it will take up the same amount of space as MPEG2 HD from DirecTV.
MPEG4 HD is much smaller file sizes.


----------



## gobble

bonscott87 said:


> Why wait, the quarterly results call yesterday explained this in detail.


Can you be a little more specific?


----------



## o2bonn

incog-neato said:


> Could be true, They did just drop the amount of credits reps are allowed to give without mgmnt approval. Maybe the best day to call is Monday.


 Now I feel smart because I cut my deal on 11/5 (see my post above). In reference to the post by kkluba, my profile is: 3 dvrs (2 HR10s and 1 SD); total choice plus service; HD and HBO; and NFL ST and Mega March Madness sports subscriptions. To my detriment I have sucked numerous credits out of DTV for poor installation appts. and both HR10s. Retention seems to not like when you have tapped them for their rumored $250 compensation authority in the past.  So I don't know whether I was a 3heart or 5heart when I called. I do know that they seemed most receptive to my statement that previously I had been told that, as an HR10 owner, I would be given a reduced rate for the new Mpeg-4 HD DVR. AS so many have stated, calling in for deals is a crapshoot and you have to keep trying.


----------



## incog-neato

LOL, he's been real quiet recently  , maybe he's out at the marketing meeting in Texas. Actually it was dropped from $1500/week to $250/week. Not sure exactly what that inlcudes but it's probably just the "crybaby" type of credits and not for hardware replacements and upgrades. I'm pretty sure all hardware credits would need to get additional authorization from managers to be accepted.


RS4 said:


> Wait for Milo to answer - he's the inside marketing guy - he'll know why


----------



## tucsonbill

bonscott87 said:


> In order of best PQ:
> 
> 1) OTA HD by far the best quality but really depends on each local affiliate and if there are subchannels
> 2) MPEG4 HD - very close to OTA PQ in most markets. National channels rival FIOS on quality (this is based on many reviews including long time DirecTV critic Scott G at Satguys)
> 3) MPEG2 HD - by far the worst PQ
> 
> OTA is MPEG2 so it will take up the same amount of space as MPEG2 HD from DirecTV.
> MPEG4 HD is much smaller file sizes.


Notwithstanding the fact that PQ as discussed here is a purely subjective matter, I think you should preface 2) and 3) with "DirecTV" -- other wise you're logically inconsistent.

1 MPEG2 is by far the worst PQ
2 OTA is MPEG2

Therefore OTA is by far the worst

I think you did intend MPEG2 an d MPEG4 from DirecTV.


----------



## gobble

incog-neato said:


> LOL, he's been real quiet recently  , maybe he's out at the marketing meeting in Texas. Actually it was dropped from $1500/week to $250/week. Not sure exactly what that inlcudes but it's probably just the "crybaby" type of credits and not for hardware replacements and upgrades. I'm pretty sure all hardware credits would need to get additional authorization from managers to be accepted.


How do we know this for fact?


----------



## bonscott87

gobble said:


> Can you be a little more specific?


Chase said that they were spending too much on credits to customers and needed to clamp down on that. And the next day we get reports that CSRs no have caps on the credits they can hand out. 

Conference call transcript: http://seekingalpha.com/article/53310-directv-q3-2007-earnings-call-transcript?source=feed

Where they talk about all kinds of interesting things such as they are selling/leasing the HD DVR in vast quantities beyond what they expected. All kinds of goodies.


----------



## bonscott87

tucsonbill said:


> Notwithstanding the fact that PQ as discussed here is a purely subjective matter, I think you should preface 2) and 3) with "DirecTV" -- other wise you're logically inconsistent.
> 
> 1 MPEG2 is by far the worst PQ
> 2 OTA is MPEG2
> 
> Therefore OTA is by far the worst
> 
> I think you did intend MPEG2 an d MPEG4 from DirecTV.


Since this is a DirecTV forum I figured that was assumed but yes, you are correct and thanks for clarifying.

For those confused, there is nothing that is "bad" about MPEG2 as a compression scheme and no reason why it should be any worse or better then MPEG4. It's just that DirecTV compresses the crap out of the MPEG2 HD channels because of space problems. They don't have that issue on the new sats where the MPEG4 HD comes from and thus they look much better. But MPEG4 really has little to do with the fact they look better, it's all about the bandwidth.

Quality chart (best to worst):
1) OTA MPEG2 HD
2) MPEG4 HD from DirecTV
3) MPEG2 HD from DirecTV


----------



## incog-neato

Doris told me.


gobble said:


> How do we know this for fact?


----------



## Anubys

bonscott87 said:


> Since this is a DirecTV forum I figured that was assumed but yes, you are correct and thanks for clarifying.


let me clarify some more, then...this is NOT a DirecTV forum...it's a Tivo forum 

I was not aware that OTA from networks is compressed at all...


----------



## pendragn

Anubys said:


> let me clarify some more, then...this is NOT a DirecTV forum...it's a Tivo forum
> 
> I was not aware that OTA from networks is compressed at all...


OTA broadcasts are MPG2, which I think are inherently compressed.

tk


----------



## dshmel

Correction: I got an HR20, not a 21. Whew.



dshmel said:


> I got one HR21 with slimline dish and install for $19.99. Got HBO and Showtime for 3 months plus 12 months of HD access credit ($10/month). So far, I am okay with HR21. Time will tell if it has glitches like my 2 HR10's.


----------



## tucsonbill

pendragn said:


> OTA broadcasts are MPG2, which I think are inherently compressed.
> 
> tk


Actually I think they're inherently encoded. Since they start out in the analog domain and are converted to the digital domain. I'm not sure how encoding an analog signal as MPEG is "compression". I think it's a conversion.


----------



## dswallow

tucsonbill said:


> Actually I think they're inherently encoded. Since they start out in the analog domain and are converted to the digital domain. I'm not sure how encoding an analog signal as MPEG is "compression". I think it's a conversion.


MPEG is a form of compression. If it weren't, the bitrate required to transmit even 640x480 pixels of color video, 30 times a second, would be 221Mbps (640x480x24x30), over 11 times the capacity of a single ATSC digital OTA channel.


----------



## bonscott87

dswallow said:


> MPEG is a form of compression. If it weren't, the bitrate required to transmit even 640x480 pixels of color video video, 30 times a second, would be 221Mbps (640x480x24x30), over 11 times the capacity of a single ATSC digital OTA channel.


Correct. The networks take their signal and compress it using MPEG2 and broadcast it out at (we hope with no subchannels) at 18 or 19 Mbps, the max available to an OTA channel. That's as good as it gets. Of course if they have a 3 meg subchannel and a 1 meg weather radar we're down to 14 meg or so which is why OTA quality is all over the place.

But in any case it's still better then DirecTV's MPEG2 HD which is even further compressed and/or "bit starved" as they like to say. That's why they don't look as good. The famous "HD Lite" if you will.

MPEG4 is simply another compression scheme which allows smaller file sizes (and less bandwidth) then MPEG2. There isn't really anything "better" about MPEG4, just that DirecTV can give it full bandwidth. If they had the room they could give their MPEG2 HD full bandwidth as well and it's PQ would be awesome as well.


----------



## tucsonbill

dswallow said:


> MPEG is a form of compression. If it weren't, the bitrate required to transmit even 640x480 pixels of color video, 30 times a second, would be 221Mbps (640x480x24x30), over 11 times the capacity of a single ATSC digital OTA channel.


Okay. Uncle. But you missed my point. Pixels only exist in the digital domain. It makes no sense to talk about compressing an analog domain signal by converting it to digital domain. Then again, there's the whole issue of what in this context compression means? Smaller file size for a given amount of information? Not necessarily a bad thing. But clearly not what you and Scott are talking about. Could be that "bit starving" thing that "they like to call it". It IS a bandwidth issue, and if you're bandwidth limited then a good compression algorithm ain't a bad thing, but if you're not starting with a digital domain signal, compression has no real meaning. It's simply a conversion.


----------



## milominderbinder

RS4 said:


> Wait for Milo to answer - he's the inside marketing guy - he'll know why


Now that's funny!

No, I do not work or consult for DIRECTV or TiVo or anyone else in satellite or HDTV. I pay the same monthly bill as anyone else. Neither has ever paid me a dime for anything, not even given me a t-shirt. I have never been to any meeting that even remotely included either company. I do not even own their stocks except through mutual funds. I have a little business in Illinois that could not be more removed from satellite or HDTV.

Ronald, I bet you could say all the same things for yourself (except the Illinois part).

Back in April through September, when everyone was getting HD DVR's for $19.95, I did too. I compiled notes from this forum of what worked and what didn't and posted them for everyone else:

HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

People often did not know what to do to get a great price and a great installation. They were not understanding how their contracts worked. So all of that is carefully documented.

Since 9-26, the free deals are rare but some, especially HR10 owners are still doing pretty good. One other huge factor that I have not seen mentioned is market. In particular, if you need a second dish for 72.5 locals, they have less than a year to get you over to MPEG4. The 72.5 satellite lease is ending.

So if you live in one of these 28 markets, today is your lucky day:

Augusta, GA
Boise, ID
Burlington, VT-Plattsburgh, NY
Cedar Rapids-Waterloo, IA
Champaign-Springfield-Decatur, IL
Charleston, SC
Chattanooga, TN
Columbia-Jefferson City, MO
Davenport, IA-Rock Island-Moline, IL
Evansville, IN
Ft. Smith-Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR
Ft. Wayne, IN
Greenville-New Bern-Washington, NC
Johnstown-Altoona, PA
La Crosse-Eu Claire, WI
Lincoln & Hastings-Kearney, NE
Macon, GA
Myrtle Beach-Florence, SC
Peoria-Bloomington, IL
Rockford, IL
Sioux Falls, SD
Springfield, MO
Syracuse, NY
Traverse City-Cadillac, MI
Tri-Cities, TN-VA
Waco-Temple-Bryan, TX
Wausau-Rhinelander, WI
Youngstown, OH

And full, uncompressed HDTV would require 671 GB per hour. (1080 x 1920 x 30 x 24/8 x 60 x 60).

We now return you to your regular programming...

- Craig


----------



## Rgonyer

Why is today our lucky day?


----------



## milominderbinder

Rgonyer said:


> Why is today our lucky day?


If you need a second dish for 72.5 locals, they have less than a year to get you over to MPEG4. The 72.5 satellite lease is ending.

They have to do whatever it takes to get everyone in these markets over to MPEG4. We are seeing post after post of people getting being called by DIRECTV in these markets with an offer for free HD DVRs if they will switch. Just by asking some are also getting programming credits etc.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

tucsonbill said:


> Okay. Uncle. But you missed my point. Pixels only exist in the digital domain...


Wikipedia correctly explains that picture element (pixel) was first applied to analog displays long before there were digital displays:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel



> _The concept of a picture element dates to the earliest days of television, for example as Bildpunkt (the German word for pixel, literally picture point) in the 1888 German patent of Paul Nipkow. _


Pixels do existing in the analog domain. Look closely at your old SDTV to see.

- Craig


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> Now that's funny!
> 
> No, I do not work or consult for DIRECTV or TiVo or anyone else in satellite or HDTV. I pay the same monthly bill as anyone else. Neither has ever paid me a dime for anything, not even given me a t-shirt. I have never been to any meeting that even remotely included either company. I do not even own their stocks except through mutual funds. I have a little business in Illinois that could not be more removed from satellite or HDTV.
> 
> Roland, I bet you could say all the same things for yourself (except the Illinois part).
> 
> Back in April through September, when everyone was getting HD DVR's for $19.95, I did too. I compiled notes from this forum of what worked and what didn't and posted them for everyone else:
> 
> HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.
> 
> People often did not know what to do to get a great price and a great installation. They were not understanding how their contracts worked. So all of that is carefully documented.
> 
> Since 9-26, the free deals are rare but some, especially HR10 owners are still doing pretty good. One other huge factor that I have not seen mentioned is market. In particular, if you need a second dish for 72.5 locals, they have less than a year to get you over to MPEG4. The 72.5 satellite lease is ending.
> 
> So if you live in one of these 28 markets, today is your lucky day:
> 
> Augusta, GA
> Boise, ID
> Burlington, VT-Plattsburgh, NY
> Cedar Rapids-Waterloo, IA
> Champaign-Springfield-Decatur, IL
> Charleston, SC
> Chattanooga, TN
> Columbia-Jefferson City, MO
> Davenport, IA-Rock Island-Moline, IL
> Evansville, IN
> Ft. Smith-Fayetteville-Springdale-Rogers, AR
> Ft. Wayne, IN
> Greenville-New Bern-Washington, NC
> Johnstown-Altoona, PA
> La Crosse-Eu Claire, WI
> Lincoln & Hastings-Kearney, NE
> Macon, GA
> Myrtle Beach-Florence, SC
> Peoria-Bloomington, IL
> Rockford, IL
> Sioux Falls, SD
> Springfield, MO
> Syracuse, NY
> Traverse City-Cadillac, MI
> Tri-Cities, TN-VA
> Waco-Temple-Bryan, TX
> Wausau-Rhinelander, WI
> Youngstown, OH
> 
> And full, uncompressed HDTV would require 671 GB per hour. (1080 x 1920 x 30 x 24/8 x 60 x 60).
> 
> We now return you to your regular programming...
> 
> - Craig


Hey Milo - thanks for all of the info - as usual  We realize this is a new month, so we assume you have more quota to make before the commissions come in.  It's ok, bud - your Tivo friends will help you make the house payments


----------



## Monkeybiz

I'm very disapointed in Directv for bringing a REFURBISHED HR20-700. I only paid $19 but still let them know I agreed to a 2yr commitment for a new machine. It's already acting up so I'm going to ask for an hr21 if possible.


----------



## incog-neato

Would you have preferred they charge you $299 and brought you a new one? My guess is they were replacing an out of warranty owned receiver of some sort at no charge which they didn't have to do. You didn't agree to a 2yr for a new receiver, you agreed to it in lieu of charging you anything for the replacement/upgrade.


Monkeybiz said:


> I'm very disapointed in Directv for bringing a REFURBISHED HR20-700. I only paid $19 but still let them know I agreed to a 2yr commitment for a new machine. It's already acting up so I'm going to ask for an hr21 if possible.


----------



## gobble

I mentioned earlier that I cancelled my subscription after unsuccessfully requesting an upgrade for my 2 HR10's earlier this week. I called back yesterday and was offered 1 free HR20 and 1 year of free HD programming to "come back". They gave me the phone number of the install company to call and make sure they had the HR20 and not HR21. I called and they have not seen an HR20 in a month. 

Now the big question, has anyone ever been successful at getting Directv to credit your account for $299 if you buy an HR20 at Best Buy? How do I get the HR20 out of this?


----------



## jimb726

gobble said:


> I mentioned earlier that I cancelled my subscription after unsuccessfully requesting an upgrade for my 2 HR10's earlier this week. I called back yesterday and was offered 1 free HR20 and 1 year of free HD programming to "come back". They gave me the phone number of the install company to call and make sure they had the HR20 and not HR21. I called and they have not seen an HR20 in a month.
> 
> Now the big question, has anyone ever been successful at getting Directv to credit your account for $299 if you buy an HR20 at Best Buy? How do I get the HR20 out of this?


Certainly that might be your best bet. Call them before hand and explain the situation and that you want to buy a specific model from a mass retailer, Costco or Best Buy, etc, and see if they will reimburse you. Just make sure that, assuming the answer is yes that you get the name of the CSR who told you that, and try to verify that it was noted in on your account. I assume that the reason you want the HR20 is for the OTA capabilites? Just so you know, there has been talk that there will be an OTA option for the HR21 users, perhaps a USB add on. No official confirmation on that though.


----------



## jimb726

Monkeybiz said:


> I'm very disapointed in Directv for bringing a REFURBISHED HR20-700. I only paid $19 but still let them know I agreed to a 2yr commitment for a new machine. It's already acting up so I'm going to ask for an hr21 if possible.


It really doesnt matter does it? Its a lease, so what difference does it make whether it is new or refurbed? As long as it works, it doesnt matter.


----------



## Monkeybiz

jimb726 said:


> It really doesnt matter does it? Its a lease, so what difference does it make whether it is new or refurbed? As long as it works, it doesnt matter.


I mentioned it was already acting up the very next day. This morning I turn it on and I get a totally phychedelic picture, really groovy but not acceptable. Had to reboot. Also the damn thing is cooking my Xbox360 with the excessive heat it emits creating game freezing for the first time but that could be a fluke. Spoiled by my faster HR10 switching channels. And losing the dual buffers is torture. Guess I can adjust but it was my favorite thing.

I could rant on about the installers also not bringing the dish and both were really unprofessional looking.


----------



## kmramos

OK, I'm getting very close to calling to get an HR20, but now I'm hearing that folks are getting the HR21, with no OTA capability. 

Has anyone in the SF Bay Area successfully gotten an HR20 recently? I do not want to lose my ability to record OTA. The HR21 is unacceptable to me.

Alternatively, does anyone know the installer that DirecTV uses for SF so I can call them?


----------



## tucsonbill

milominderbinder said:


> Wikipedia correctly explains that picture element (pixel) was first applied to analog displays long before there were digital displays:


 Uh, I think you may not understand that the concept of pixels has nothing to do with display technology. 


> Pixels do existing in the analog domain. Look closely at your old SDTV to see.
> - Craig


Yeah, right, other than the fact that SDTV is a digital standard, not analog - so do you mean NTSC? Defined in the ATSC standards as CDTV (Conventional Definition)? Or do you simply mean my CRT based TV. (In which case see above.) Also you may have missed the part of the linked article where it says that "Phosphor dots in a color CRT display bear no relation to pixels or subpixels". OTOH, I do owe Doug an apology, since he had a legitimate point, which I ignored when I accused him of missing MY point. I understand why he said what he said, and if I accept his definition of "compression" I don't disagree with him. I do disagree with you because you don't understand what you're talking about.


----------



## incog-neato

Don't be upset with Milibinderminder, he's only in the D* sales department not in their tech support. 


tucsonbill said:


> Uh, I think you may not understand that the concept of pixels has nothing to do with display technology.
> Yeah, right, other than the fact that SDTV is a digital standard, not analog - so do you mean NTSC? Defined in the ATSC standards as CDTV (Conventional Definition)? Or do you simply mean my CRT based TV. (In which case see above.) Also you may have missed the part of the linked article where it says that "Phosphor dots in a color CRT display bear no relation to pixels or subpixels". OTOH, I do owe Doug an apology, since he had a legitimate point, which I ignored when I accused him of missing MY point. I understand why he said what he said, and if I accept his definition of "compression" I don't disagree with him. I do disagree with you because you don't understand what you're talking about.


----------



## nuke

kmramos said:


> OK, I'm getting very close to calling to get an HR20, but now I'm hearing that folks are getting the HR21, with no OTA capability.
> 
> Has anyone in the SF Bay Area successfully gotten an HR20 recently? I do not want to lose my ability to record OTA. The HR21 is unacceptable to me.
> 
> Alternatively, does anyone know the installer that DirecTV uses for SF so I can call them?


Yes, I got them to agree to a $200 credit (or they would send a HD DVR for free) for going to Costco and picking up the HR20 that I specifcally wanted. I get good OTA reception here and there's plenty of OTA HD content and a good part of it is not on DTV. I get two PBS stations in HD. KQED has a lot of very good HD programming and they're not on the sats.

It was a goofy process. First call was nothing but "no, no, no, no." Next day, called back and they were more than happy to upgrade my HR10.

The new dish is being put in on monday morning. The box is on the floor by the TV stand.


----------



## Jim Abbett

Just as I expected. The installer called and was going to bring an HR21. I cancelled the whole deal.


----------



## Jim Abbett

Now, to top it off, they didn't adjust my bill. I called them to ask them to remove the $46 difference between my normal bill amount and the amount with the upgrade.

After getting past the first numb minded dope of a rep and getting transfered to another rep. she reluctantly removed the $19.95 shipping fee. However, there was still the difference of the $199 upgrade fee and the $175 credit. She said since that it was the deal I agreed to, she couldn't remove the $24 difference. She also said "We have a large warehouse. Which ever unit get's pulled off the shelf, that's the model you get." 

I'm $24 in the hole because they can't confirm in advance, what model of receiver they will send?? What BS!

It seems you can only get something done at DTV by emailing them and getting a pin number so I sent them a scathing email regarding the situation. We'll see what happens.

Thanks for all the information passed along on the forum. It really helps in dealing with these jokers.


----------



## kmramos

nuke said:


> Yes, I got them to agree to a $200 credit (or they would send a HD DVR for free) for going to Costco and picking up the HR20 that I specifcally wanted. I get good OTA reception here and there's plenty of OTA HD content and a good part of it is not on DTV. I get two PBS stations in HD. KQED has a lot of very good HD programming and they're not on the sats.
> 
> It was a goofy process. First call was nothing but "no, no, no, no." Next day, called back and they were more than happy to upgrade my HR10.
> 
> The new dish is being put in on monday morning. The box is on the floor by the TV stand.


Thank, nuke. I'll try that tactic. I certainly don't mind picking one up myself just to be sure I get the HR20. Like you, I get great OTA HD and have no interest in giving that up, even though the reports of PQ of the HD locals are good. No KQED or CW is not acceptable to me.

This whole process with the bargaining and the repeated calling is insane. I've had the "premium" or "platinum" or whatever they call the whole enchilada package for about 10 years. I hope I have enough "hearts" to warrant a good deal.


----------



## kmramos

OK. I've decided that I'm keeping the HR10-250 and adding the HR20 to record only what the HR10 cannot. I was going to add an external drive to the HR20 anyway, so the extra receiver charge of around $60 for the year will be considerably less than the cost of an external drive right now. 

I've never had more than one DVR on one TV before. For those with this setup, what do I need to know about installation? I figure they'll need to bring a new multi-switch and run another set of cables for the HR20. Am I missing anything in my thinking that this will result in a have-cake-and-eat-it-too scenario?


----------



## newsposter

4 wires from the 5 lnb..2 to hr10 and 2 to hr20...no M/S needed. Unless you have other receivers of course.


----------



## berryb

HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips.

Quote: "Since 9-26, the free deals are rare but some, especially HR10 owners are still doing pretty good."

I used your Ordering Tips and got just that - A free deal, not even the $19 shipping charge.

I suspect most of us are basically happy with DirecTV - How else would we put up with the little eccentricities that the HR10-250's hand us from time to time?

So therefore it's almost a "Catch 22" when we try to deal with the CSR by saying basically, "I'll cancel if I don't get a better deal - Switch me over to Retention!"

I decided to be straight with the final CSR I was forwarded to. I started out by saying that I thought that I was a pretty good DirecTV customer, having been with them since 1996. I continued, saying that I did not intend to EVER switch because I liked their services. That got his attention!

Then I told him that by visiting both the TiVo Community and the DBSTalk Forums that I read, there were all sorts of HR10 to HR20 Upgrade deals going around, if someone wanted to keep their HR10 as I did. The deals, I said ranged from $299. down to Zero, some even with Free shipping.

I explained that I had upgraded my HR10 with two 400 Gb drives and had several recordings that I didn't want to lose, so therefore I'd keep that receiver active, along with my two other SD DirecTiVos.

He agreed with me and then said I could go back on those "Blogs" (as he called the forums) and "Brag I even got the free shipping!"

He mentioned the two-year commitment and I told him "No big deal, I'm staying with you guys anyway, remember?"

I did get a Morning Installation appointment as you suggested, although I have to wait until Nov. 18th. The only drawback he said was that he "Was not allowed to let the customer to select their own model."

I chose this thread, not only to tell about my upgrade deal, but as a place to express my appreciation to you.

So thanks again for those ordering tips, AND all the other HR20 information that you've provided! I've learned more about my upcoming HR20 (?) in just a short time from you than I learned over months with my HR10 usage.

Bert Berry :up:


----------



## Jim Abbett

By sending my last email, they removed the $24 that I was stuck for with my upgrade/install that went bad.

In the email reply, here's what they said:

"After researching this problem of the off-air antenna and the models being installed, I have discovered that eventually DIRECTV may be fazing out the use of the off-air antenna connection for the receivers. The newest HR21, as you know already, does not have the technology to utilize the connection for an off-air antenna. Now, I do not want you to work with us to get the HR20 model and then have that eventually lose the technology also, as the pursuit will be connecting the off-air to a television only, from what I understand in researching this.

With that information, if you do want to continue to pursue the upgrade and look for other option to use your off-air antenna in a slightly different connection, please feel free to contact us back."

What could they be getting at?


----------



## milominderbinder

kmramos said:


> OK. I've decided that I'm keeping the HR10-250 and adding the HR20 to record only what the HR10 cannot. I was going to add an external drive to the HR20 anyway, so the extra receiver charge of around $60 for the year will be considerably less than the cost of an external drive right now.
> 
> I've never had more than one DVR on one TV before. For those with this setup, what do I need to know about installation? I figure they'll need to bring a new multi-switch and run another set of cables for the HR20. Am I missing anything in my thinking that this will result in a have-cake-and-eat-it-too scenario?


Here is how to program one remote to control an HR10 and an HR20:

Remote Control Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) 

For anyone buying any receiver from DIRECTV, there is a lot that you can do to help make sure it goes well: HD DVR (HR20) Ordering Tips. Click each link especially the Agreement link to see this will create a new 2-year contract.

If you are an HR10 user try sending an email like this one to here.

At some point if your HR10 stops working reliably or starts re-booting, they still seem to be doing the free replacements and you can keep your HR10.

Also, did you see that DIRECTV began beta testing a back-door for a real 30 Second Skip as an alternative to the 30 Second Slip? This test release also added the abillity to play videos from your PC in addition to music snd photos.

- Craig


----------



## robnalex

milominderbinder said:


> Here is how to program one remote to control an HR10 and an HR20:
> 
> Remote Control Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)


Craig- I didn't have time to check every link, but I don't see instructions on how to use an HR20 remote to control HR10 and HR20. I've got my HR20 remote programmed to control 2 HR20s, but I'm also running an HR10, for which I have to grab the peanut.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

if you don't have time to research you probably won't have time to make it work


----------



## kmramos

Jim Abbett said:


> By sending my last email, they removed the $24 that I was stuck for with my upgrade/install that went bad.
> 
> In the email reply, here's what they said:
> 
> "After researching this problem of the off-air antenna and the models being installed, I have discovered that eventually DIRECTV may be fazing out the use of the off-air antenna connection for the receivers. The newest HR21, as you know already, does not have the technology to utilize the connection for an off-air antenna. Now, I do not want you to work with us to get the HR20 model and then have that eventually lose the technology also, as the pursuit will be connecting the off-air to a television only, from what I understand in researching this.
> 
> With that information, if you do want to continue to pursue the upgrade and look for other option to use your off-air antenna in a slightly different connection, please feel free to contact us back."
> 
> What could they be getting at?


What, indeed? This sort of suggests that they will be deactivating the OTA tuners in the HR20, which seems far fetched to me.


----------



## milominderbinder

robnalex said:


> Craig- I didn't have time to check every link, but I don't see instructions on how to use an HR20 remote to control HR10 and HR20. I've got my HR20 remote programmed to control 2 HR20s, but I'm also running an HR10, for which I have to grab the peanut.


Use this link:

Multiple Receiver Programming Detailed Instructions

I do not know if you use 00002 or 00003 for the HR10. It will come up on screen to prompt you.

I just posted your request for you here:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1279679#post1279679

There are a dozen great volunteers in that area who will be able to help.

- Craig


----------



## kroddy

Heres my story so far:

Tivo customer for about 8 years now, switched to D* about 7 years ago on a fairly good deal involving Sunday ticket. Immediately bought a Mits HD satellite receiver and had two Sony SD DTiVo's (upgraded) - replaced both Sonys with an HR10 and an RCA SD as soon as I could lay my hands on an HR10 because the Sony had a good resale value at the time. Upgraded the RCA to 80GB immediately, upgraded the HR10 to a single 750GB drive early this year.

Kept my head in the sand until the new MPEG4 stations actually launched (been through so many "More channels/ HD Tivo coming soon" scenarios I couldn't get excited about this)

Called up last month to find out what my "deal" would be to "upgrade", and the rep wouldn't budge from $300, best he would do was split it across three monthly payments. Told him he could keep it at that price and that as soon as I could be bothered I would be calling Comcast. End of conversation.

Got my D* bill for this month and they had charged me the first monthly payment for the new HDDVR that I didn't want - called yesterday to sort out the billing issue, had a little gripe to the rep about spending thousands on equipment over the years and she offered to transfer me to retention.

Retention rep offered me new dish/multiswitch & HDDVR all installed for total $19.95 handling + two year commitment.

Install scheduled for Wednesday morning... can't honestly say I'm too excited about it.


----------



## milominderbinder

robnalex said:


> Craig- I didn't have time to check every link, but I don't see instructions on how to use an HR20 remote to control HR10 and HR20. I've got my HR20 remote programmed to control 2 HR20s, but I'm also running an HR10, for which I have to grab the peanut.


OK, Edmund has the answer!

1. Program your HR20 remote for the HR20 if not already: Press MENU > Help & Settings > Setup> Remote

2. Move the Mode slider on the top of your remote to AV1.

3. Press and hold Select and Mute down until the AV1 light flashes twice. Enter the code 01442.

- Craig


----------



## newsposter

what address is that 01442 mapped to? I have stacked tivos on address 2 and 4 (i think)


----------



## itzme

I'm still procrastinating the HR 20/21 and holding onto my Tivo. Now I'm concerned about losing the advantage of my rooftop antenna (no rain fades, additional locals, etc). If I got stuck with the HR21, is there any practical way to add-on AND INTERFACE an external HD OTA tuner? Thus turning the HR21 into an HR20?


----------



## jimb726

itzme said:


> I'm still procrastinating the HR 20/21 and holding onto my Tivo. Now I'm concerned about losing the advantage of my rooftop antenna (no rain fades, additional locals, etc). If I got stuck with the HR21, is there any practical way to add-on AND INTERFACE an external HD OTA tuner? Thus turning the HR21 into an HR20?


Today?? No, DirecTv has stated that they realize that the omission of the OTA is an issue for some subscribers and has stated they will have an add on solution available. It is speculated that it will be a USB OTA adapter. No official word has been given but thats what is being thrown about. Also it hasnt been said who will pay for the adapter either. So to answer your question, yes there will be a way, but no it is not available today.


----------



## LlamaLarry

FWIW, I got two HR20-100s installed last week.


----------



## newsposter

LlamaLarry said:


> FWIW, I got two HR20-100s installed last week.


hope you got that VOD rollin


----------



## milominderbinder

newsposter said:


> what address is that 01442 mapped to? I have stacked tivos on address 2 and 4 (i think)


Here is Edmunds write-up:

Tivo owners, help in programming the white directv remotes.

- Craig


----------



## newsposter

oh well, too much to hope for 3dvrs from one remote anyway lol..maybe i'll program the vl900 with the hr20s signals manually


----------



## incog-neato

All D* has said is "there will be a solution." They never stated "an add-on solution." That is only speculation. Their "solution" could be "switch to cable." 


jimb726 said:


> Today?? No, DirecTv has stated that they realize that the omission of the OTA is an issue for some subscribers and has stated they will have an add on solution available. It is speculated that it will be a USB OTA adapter. No official word has been given but thats what is being thrown about. Also it hasnt been said who will pay for the adapter either. So to answer your question, yes there will be a way, but no it is not available today.


----------



## gobble

I'm having my install done tomorrow and I suspect it will be the HR21. Do you think I'd have any success buying an HR20 from Circuit City and returning the HR21 in its place? I wonder what would happen if I put the HR21 in the HR20 box? I'm sure it would take time for someone to figure out the serial numbers don't match. Would this happen at the Circuit City or DirecTV level?


----------



## JohnB1000

gobble said:


> I'm having my install done tomorrow and I suspect it will be the HR21. Do you think I'd have any success buying an HR20 from Circuit City and returning the HR21 in its place? I wonder what would happen if I put the HR21 in the HR20 box? I'm sure it would take time for someone to figure out the serial numbers don't match. Would this happen at the Circuit City or DirecTV level?


Circuit City will likely check the serial on the outside of the box vs the one on the inside. It happened with a DVD player I returned. You could get lucky but not likely.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

gobble said:


> I'm having my install done tomorrow and I suspect it will be the HR21. Do you think I'd have any success buying an HR20 from Circuit City and returning the HR21 in its place? I wonder what would happen if I put the HR21 in the HR20 box? I'm sure it would take time for someone to figure out the serial numbers don't match. Would this happen at the Circuit City or DirecTV level?


So you asking if it's okay to steal? :down:


----------



## gobble

Jebberwocky! said:


> So you asking if it's okay to steal? :down:


Where do you see theft in the question I asked? DirecTV is very clear that they are indifferent if you get an HR20 vs. HR21. This would be an even trade and I'd be paying for the HR21 I'm returning.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

gobble said:


> Where do you see theft in the question I asked? DirecTV is very clear that they are indifferent if you get an HR20 vs. HR21. This would be an even trade and I'd be paying for the HR21 I'm returning.


Sorry, I thought you said you were going to buy a HR20 at CC and return the HR21 in the HR20 box back to CC.


----------



## gobble

Jebberwocky! said:


> Sorry, I thought you said you were going to buy a HR20 at CC and return the HR21 in the HR20 box back to CC.


That is what I asked. If the two are interchangeable, why should it matter. It was actually suggested to me by a DirecTV tech equipment rep., but then she thought about it and said that probably wouldn't work. The other thing she threw out is to say the HR21 doesn't work when I get it and see what they send as a replacement.


----------



## LlamaLarry

gobble said:


> That is what I asked. If the two are interchangeable, why should it matter.


So if by some miracle CC misses that the contents does not match the label, you're okay with shafting the next sap to buy the HR20?


----------



## gobble

LlamaLarry said:


> So if by some miracle CC misses that the contents does not match the label, you're okay with shafting the next sap to buy the HR20?


I don't think they can sell DTV open box. I think they send it back. And no, DTV created this problem for themselves.


----------



## newsposter

gobble said:


> I'm having my install done tomorrow and I suspect it will be the HR21.


maybe ur experience will differ but my installer got on the phone and went thru a long process with his dispatcher and also directv to sign off on my job and then activate the receiver. So if you deactivate yours, you prob would get hit with a penalty since the initial activation was already done.


----------



## tucsonbill

gobble said:


> I don't think they can sell DTV open box. I think they send it back. And no, DTV created this problem for themselves.


Give it up jackass. Stealing is stealing. If you don't think buying one thing from a retailer and returning something else is stealing, then you don't deserve to have TV. Why in hell do you think your anger with D* should be bestbuy's problem?


----------



## jimb726

incog-neato said:


> All D* has said is "there will be a solution." They never stated "an add-on solution." That is only speculation. Their "solution" could be "switch to cable."


Right, I am sure that will be what they tell people.


----------



## jimb726

gobble said:


> I don't think they can sell DTV open box. I think they send it back. And no, DTV created this problem for themselves.


D* may have created the problem, but you are OK shifting the blame to CC? Besides I think that when you activate the reciever they would know it isnt the one you were sent. Dont they verify the RID before they activate it?


----------



## Dirac

kmramos said:


> What, indeed? This sort of suggests that they will be deactivating the OTA tuners in the HR20, which seems far fetched to me.


I have to think this was a case of someone hearing "they're phasing out OTA on DTV receivers" and the message getting so screwed up that at the end, it says "we're disabling OTA on everyone's HR20s".


----------



## kmramos

An update. Called today and got a free "upgrade." Told them I would be keeping my HR10-250 and they said fine. Went through all the steps (thanks!) and was adamant that they send an HR20 and not HR21. Told them politely that I will not accept the installation if they don't send the receiver I want, and offered to buy it myself, but they would not give me any credit on the deal if I did that. I'm sorry, but does this even make sense? A couple months ago, the HR21 _was not even an option and now if I want to make sure I get the receiver I need, they won't accommodate that? There is obviously a functional difference between the two -- it's not like I'm saying I want to black one and not a silver one!

Anyway, the alleged installation is happening Friday. Fingers crossed.

And since this is still a Tivo forum, let me add that I'm thisclose to going to Comcast and a Series 3 Tivo..._


----------



## Spiff69

Hi All,

Well I called the upgrade number today and wasn't too thrilled with the way the call went. They said that in order to get the free upgrade, I had to trade in my HR10-250. I am also very concerned about not having OTA on the HR21, so I'll have to see what I can do about that too.

Should I try to call retention or just call the same upgrade number back? I'm sure they can work it out for me, but I was really surprised they demanded an even swap.


----------



## jimb726

Spiff69 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Well I called the upgrade number today and wasn't too thrilled with the way the call went. They said that in order to get the free upgrade, I had to trade in my HR10-250. I am also very concerned about not having OTA on the HR21, so I'll have to see what I can do about that too.
> 
> Should I try to call retention or just call the same upgrade number back? I'm sure they can work it out for me, but I was really surprised they demanded an even swap.


Unfortunately, more and more people are hearing this. That being said, I dont think the installer is actually taking them. But you dont want to be the first. Call them back and tell them you want the HR10 relocated. Thats what I did, and then they let me keep it.


----------



## kmramos

Spiff69 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Well I called the upgrade number today and wasn't too thrilled with the way the call went. They said that in order to get the free upgrade, I had to trade in my HR10-250. I am also very concerned about not having OTA on the HR21, so I'll have to see what I can do about that too.
> 
> Should I try to call retention or just call the same upgrade number back? I'm sure they can work it out for me, but I was really surprised they demanded an even swap.


There was talk of a trading in, but I said that I intended to keep my HR10-250, and they said that was fine.

My work order contains the word "swap." Should I be concerned?


----------



## gobble

jimb726 said:


> Unfortunately, more and more people are hearing this. That being said, I dont think the installer is actually taking them. But you dont want to be the first. Call them back and tell them you want the HR10 relocated. Thats what I did, and then they let me keep it.


My install was done today and I was told DirecTV will be sending a "recovery" package for the HR10. They want it back even though when I placed the order they said I could keep it. The CSR I spoke with today insisted that my receiver was leased even though I had bought it on Ebay 6 mos ago. I have never signed a lease agreement. I didn't have time this morning, but need to call back and sort this all out.

And I got the dreaded HR21.


----------



## jimb726

gobble said:


> My install was done today and I was told DirecTV will be sending a "recovery" package for the HR10. They want it back even though when I placed the order they said I could keep it. The CSR I spoke with today insisted that my receiver was leased even though I had bought it on Ebay 6 mos ago. I have never signed a lease agreement. I didn't have time this morning, but need to call back and sort this all out.
> 
> And I got the dreaded HR21.


 Oh man that sucks!! FWIW, if thwere should happen to be anything wrong with the HR21 the replacement will almost certainly be a HR20. <wink, wink> Assuming that you cannot get it straightened out. Not that it is any consolation at all, I believe that D* policy has been that all advanced recievers are leased since March of 06? Was this a warranty or PP replacement? If so, make sure they didnt renew your commitment.


----------



## onin24eagle

kmramos said:


> An update. Called today and got a free "upgrade." Told them I would be keeping my HR10-250 and they said fine. Went through all the steps (thanks!) and was adamant that they send an HR20 and not HR21. Told them politely that I will not accept the installation if they don't send the receiver I want, and offered to buy it myself, but they would not give me any credit on the deal if I did that. I'm sorry, but does this even make sense? A couple months ago, the HR21 _was not even an option and now if I want to make sure I get the receiver I need, they won't accommodate that? There is obviously a functional difference between the two -- it's not like I'm saying I want to black one and not a silver one!
> 
> Anyway, the alleged installation is happening Friday. Fingers crossed.
> 
> And since this is still a Tivo forum, let me add that I'm thisclose to going to Comcast and a Series 3 Tivo..._


_

They told me the same thing that I could get HR20's, but if you call the install company, which you should to verify your order, they will tell you that you get what you get from the stock they have that day. Good luck!_


----------



## rickmeoff

jimb726 said:


> Oh man that sucks!! FWIW, if thwere should happen to be anything wrong with the HR21 the replacement will almost certainly be a HR20. <wink, wink> Assuming that you cannot get it straightened out. Not that it is any consolation at all, I believe that D* policy has been that all advanced recievers are leased since March of 06? Was this a warranty or PP replacement? If so, make sure they didnt renew your commitment.


and be aware that the replacement will probably be a refurbed unit (dunno whether or not that bothers you).


----------



## jimb726

rickmeoff said:


> and be aware that the replacement will probably be a refurbed unit (dunno whether or not that bothers you).


Yes, very good point. I forgot that one. That being said, allegedly those have at least been bench tested.


----------



## gobble

If it is leased I could care less if it is refurbished.


----------



## rickmeoff

just cuz its leased doesnt mean theyll replace it for free if it breaks..........unless you pay for the protection coverage.


----------



## JohnB1000

Gobble. call DTV tell them you want to keep the HR10, I'm sure they don't want it back. As said you still have to pay to replace a broken leased system.


----------



## jimb726

rickmeoff said:


> just cuz its leased doesnt mean theyll replace it for free if it breaks..........unless you pay for the protection coverage.


Actually it does. They will replace it, what the protection plan covers is any associated service calls and the shipping on the replacement.


----------



## JohnB1000

jimb726 said:


> Actually it does. They will replace it, what the protection plan covers is any associated service calls and the shipping on the replacement.


That's inaccurate I believe, they won't replace a unit for free, they'll replace it but after the 90 days you still have to pay for it (or at least I did in that exact circumstance )

No different than a car lease, if you crash the car they won't replace it just because it's leased.


----------



## rickmeoff

yep, what johnb said. many peoples are under the impression that because dtv owns it, they will take care of any replacements/repairs free of charge. not so unfortunately, even on refurbed units.

the car lease is a good anology.


----------



## daperlman

JohnB1000 said:


> That's inaccurate I believe, they won't replace a unit for free, they'll replace it but after the 90 days you still have to pay for it (or at least I did in that exact circumstance )
> 
> No different than a car lease, if you crash the car they won't replace it just because it's leased.


So did you break it? Or did it fail. Crashing a car is analagous to smashing the receiver. IOW in the car example: Absent a wreck, if you turn the key and your leased car doesn't start... they gotta fix it.


----------



## kroddy

Well as I detailed above i was promised a new HD-DVR for $0 and verified line-by-line with the retention rep that I would get a new box, dish, multi-switch & wires to the new box, and keep my HR10 active.

Install guy arrived today and was adamant that he would not be running any new lines inside the house, and that he would be taking my HR-10 with him, because that's what his work order said. I told him to get out and not come back.

Was determined to cancel once and for all after that but retention promised me that this was all a big mistake and I would get a completely free new box etc and keep my old one, install now scheduled for Monday.

I'm completely and utterly fed up with the whole business... only reason I'm not back with Comcast already is because I know they're no better... seriously considering giving up TV for life at this point. They really shouldn't be making it this difficult for me to spend $120+ a month with them.


----------



## Spiff69

Hi,

I thought I would give an update from my post earlier today. Thanks for the responses, btw.

Called back to the "upgrade" number and got someone a lot more knowledgeable and a heck of a lot friendlier and more personable. Heck, on my first call today the lady said we would lose HD channels because they were moving to an mpeg3 format.

This time, I was told I could keep my HR10-250. "After all," she said, "it's not like we have a use for it." This is a completely free swapout and she said with no contract extension. I was really happy for that, but I'm still a little skeptical. She did seem to hint that not all account holders were being offered the same deals. Maybe she was just making me feel special 

Installation date is more than 2 weeks away and no guarantee on the OTA question. I'll call back and try to get to the local installer. She did say that she had made a note about an HR20, but that there was no guarantees. I told her I understood - no point in hammering them about something they have no control over. I hope that I can talk to the installer beforehand.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw my experiences in the mix.


----------



## incog-neato

That is not correct. If it's leased AND OUT OF 90 day WARRANTY they will replace it for a $19.95 shipping charge (which even that can easily get waived). The protection plan "advantage" is they don't charge the shipping charge AND they also are responsible for the dish itself if it need alignment or an LNB dies, the multiswitch and the wiring. Without the PP it's a $75 service visit + parts. They also "reserve the right" to extend your agreement if it is out of warranty if you don't have the PP.


JohnB1000 said:


> That's inaccurate I believe, they won't replace a unit for free, they'll replace it but after the 90 days you still have to pay for it (or at least I did in that exact circumstance )
> 
> No different than a car lease, if you crash the car they won't replace it just because it's leased.


----------



## jimb726

incog-neato said:


> That is not correct. If it's leased AND OUT OF 90 day WARRANTY they will replace it for a $19.95 shipping charge (which even that can easily get waived). The protection plan "advantage" is they don't charge the shipping charge AND they also are responsible for the dish itself if it need alignment or an LNB dies, the multiswitch and the wiring. Without the PP it's a $75 service visit + parts. They also "reserve the right" to extend your agreement if it is out of warranty if you don't have the PP.


That was always my impression, and I could have sworn I saw a link somewhere that spelled it out. I just cant find it. I pay for the protection plan so I cannot speak from experience. I travel so much withmy job, I like that my wife can just call and get any problems taken care of, and I do think that I am way ahead of the 5.99/month I pay for the plan.


----------



## rickmeoff

incog-neato said:


> That is not correct. If it's leased AND OUT OF 90 day WARRANTY they will replace it for a $19.95 shipping charge (which even that can easily get waived). The protection plan "advantage" is they don't charge the shipping charge AND they also are responsible for the dish itself if it need alignment or an LNB dies, the multiswitch and the wiring. Without the PP it's a $75 service visit + parts. They also "reserve the right" to extend your agreement if it is out of warranty if you don't have the PP.


so youre saying a leased receiver will be replaced for free if it goes on the fritz without the protection plan? wasnt my experience.

why would anyone even pay for the protection plan then?


----------



## jimb726

rickmeoff said:


> so youre saying a leased receiver will be replaced for free if it goes on the fritz without the protection plan? wasnt my experience.
> 
> why would anyone even pay for the protection plan then?


Two reasons that I do, number one, no charge for service call if they require one, and two the protection plan covers all of the other items in the system, dish, remotes, wiring, multi switch, etc. For the HR20 non PP lease coverage it is only the box. No remote, no shipping, etc. As I said, I know that I have more than gotten my moneys worth out of the plan. Annual dish adjustments, many recievers replaced under the plan, many remotes replaced under the plan, and several service calls. I like the convenience of the fact that if I am traveling my wife can just call DirecTv and they will come out and fix the problems. Also, but I cannot verify this I think that PP plan member go to the front of the line when they call in with issues. I have never had two wait more than 5 minutes to get help.


----------



## incog-neato

Yes, for free + $19.95 shipping. As I stated before, the Protection plan covers the entire system including Dish, wiring & switch. I had a switch rot out after 3 years and they came and replced it for free. Without PP it would cost $75 for visit + parts.


rickmeoff said:


> so youre saying a leased receiver will be replaced for free if it goes on the fritz without the protection plan? wasnt my experience.
> 
> why would anyone even pay for the protection plan then?


----------



## incog-neato

Free box + $19.95 shipping and possibly an extnsion of 2yr agreement if out of 90 day warranty w/o PP. ONLY box is covered. Nothing else. W/PP everything is covered from dish to receiver/remote etc etc w/no charges or agreement extensions. I've got my moneys worth 2x over for the $5.95/month.


rickmeoff said:


> so youre saying a leased receiver will be replaced for free if it goes on the fritz without the protection plan? wasnt my experience.
> 
> why would anyone even pay for the protection plan then?


----------



## rickmeoff

incog-neato said:


> Free box + $19.95 shipping and possibly an extnsion of 2yr agreement if out of 90 day warranty w/o PP. ONLY box is covered. Nothing else. W/PP everything is covered from dish to receiver/remote etc etc w/no charges or agreement extensions. I've got my moneys worth 2x over for the $5.95/month.


gotcha.

ive got a bone to pick with them then, lol. thanks.


----------



## JohnB1000

daperlman said:


> So did you break it? Or did it fail. Crashing a car is analagous to smashing the receiver. IOW in the car example: Absent a wreck, if you turn the key and your leased car doesn't start... they gotta fix it.


That's simply not true. I agree with the crash part but upkeep and maintenance of a leased car is your responsibility. You have to pay to have it serviced, if it breaks not under a warranty you have to pay for it.

Regarding this program. I had a leased SD DTV system that I had had for around 180 days, it failed, drive or something, they wanted me to pay for a new unit (which I could negotiate), there was no opportunity to just have it replaced. In the end I repaired it but there was never an offer to replace it.


----------



## incog-neato

Protection Plan: Whats covered / included:


Technical troubleshooting 24/7. 
Free in-home service call, if needed. 
Costs of replacing equipment: Handling and delivery. 
Equipment damage due to lightning strikes or other electrical surges. 
Receiver(s) - all types (except Integrated LCD) 
If equipment is leased, Protection Plan covers handling and delivery costs associated with receiver replacement(s) under lease agreement. 
If replaced, customer will most likely need to return faulty receiver. 
*Owned receivers are replaced with owned receivers. *
Remote Control 
Covers failure due to normal wear and tear or defect. 
Does not cover if lost, stolen, or broken from misuse. 
Dish 
Unlimited Alignments 
LNB Replacement 
Relocation Only for functional line-of-sight problems that are NOT the result of property improvements/changes within the customer's control. 
Does not apply if customer wants dish relocated for cosmetic reasons or if customer builds additional structures or plants trees on their property. 
Cables, multi-switches, and splitters 
Phone line - from receiver to phone jack only. 
RVs and boats Only covers receiver replacement, access card, and remote. No service calls for cables, dish alignment or LNB.


----------



## incog-neato

*Leased Equipment*:


*Without the Protection Plan, you pay $19.95 shipping and handling for replacement receivers and aren't covered for service call fees of $70 per visit. *
With the Protection Plan, receiver replacement, remote controls and service calls are free as long as you keep the Protection Plan. By paying $5.99 per month, you'll ensure you're covered if anything does go wrong with your DIRECTV system in the future.Sorry, forgot to add the most important line to the previous message:
Edit: Lost this in the initial cut and paste:
New customers, who purchase our Protection Plan today, lease their receivers and do not own them. For these customers the receiver is already covered under their lease agreement.


----------



## incog-neato

Absolutely not true. If you have LEASED a vehicle for say 3yrs/36,000 miles and it comes with the standard manufacturers 3 year or 36,000 mile factory warranty and you exceed the 36,000 miles in say 2 years because you do a lot of driving you are responsible for the costs of ANY MECHANICAL REPAIR for the duration of the lease. No different then if you own it. Once the factory warranty runs out you are responsible for ALL mechanical repairs (unless of course you *purchased* an extended warranty).


daperlman said:


> So did you break it? Or did it fail. Crashing a car is analagous to smashing the receiver. IOW in the car example: Absent a wreck, if you turn the key and your leased car doesn't start... they gotta fix it.


----------



## rickmeoff

did i somehow stumble onto the edmunds.com forums? lol


----------



## JohnB1000

One major issue without the protection plan is that they seem to want the service call. So even if they would replace it for free they often won't do it without first charging you the $70 service call for some guy who knows less than you to come look at it


----------



## newsposter

incog-neato said:


> [*]*Owned receivers are replaced with owned receivers. *
> ]


interesting, you mean someone can own an HR20 for 'free'. Very interesting


----------



## incog-neato

Yes, if you have the PP and had an HR10-250 that went bad and they replaced it with an HR20 you (are supposed to) own it. Frankly I'd prefer it to be leased. Problem is, most of the time they activate it as leased and you would have to contact the "access card department" to have is changed.


newsposter said:


> interesting, you mean someone can own an HR20 for 'free'. Very interesting


----------



## rickmeoff

incog-neato said:


> Yes, if you have the PP and had an HR10-250 that went bad and they replaced it with an HR20 you (are supposed to) own it. Frankly I'd prefer it to be leased. Problem is, most of the time they activate it as leased and you would have to contact the "access card department" to have is changed.


so, hypothetically speaking if one of my other hr10s 'goes bad,' and needs to be replaced...........im better off having it be one of my owned receivers rather than one of my leased receivers?

that way, if for some strange reason i end up leaving dtv i can sell the unit since its mine. any drawbacks to my thinking?


----------



## incog-neato

Yes, if you consider owned (as far as their replacement policy) being an advantage. If it's owned I'd assume it can be sold.


rickmeoff said:


> so, hypothetically speaking if one of my other hr10s 'goes bad,' and needs to be replaced...........im better off having it be one of my owned receivers rather than one of my leased receivers?
> 
> that way, if for some strange reason i end up leaving dtv i can sell the unit since its mine. any drawbacks to my thinking?


----------



## daperlman

incog-neato said:


> Absolutely not true. If you have LEASED a vehicle for say 3yrs/36,000 miles and it comes with the standard manufacturers 3 year or 36,000 mile factory warranty and you exceed the 36,000 miles in say 2 years because you do a lot of driving you are responsible for the costs of ANY MECHANICAL REPAIR for the duration of the lease. No different then if you own it. Once the factory warranty runs out you are responsible for ALL mechanical repairs (unless of course you *purchased* an extended warranty).


For the record... I meant while it was warranted and assumed the owner was using the car normally. I mean with the receiver... exactly what maintainance is supposed to be necessary.

My point is if a company gives you a receiver that you are leasing, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect it to work w/out buying insurance for 90 days (or whatever the war period is). OTOH, I don't think that gives the owner a blank check to have unlimited service calls. But after going through 5 or 6 DTV technicians for a simple install and ending up with an incomplete install and damage to my home, I gotta tell you... customers should not be penalized that the technicians are extremely careless.


----------



## Jim Abbett

My HR20 came today via Fed Ex.

I hope the full install goes this well.


----------



## RS4

Jim Abbett said:


> My HR20 came today via Fed Ex.
> 
> I hope the full install goes this well.


You have our sympathies.


----------



## newsposter

Jim Abbett said:


> My HR20 came today via Fed Ex.
> 
> I hope the full install goes this well.


if you are trying to activate the HD pak (dont know if you have it now or what) and the rep says you already have it turned on, ask them to turn it off and turn on the 'new one'. It took over 2 hours and 5 people for them to realize A. i never had it turned on even for HDtivo and B. that they were activating the wrong thing

enjoy the new HD channels. I love seeing even the SD stuff on the HD channels because the PQ is far superior. No one will argue that point


----------



## jaypb

Jim Abbett said:


> My HR20 came today via Fed Ex.
> 
> I hope the full install goes this well.


So---you received an HR20 and not an HR21?

Nice! :up:


----------



## Jim Abbett

jaypb said:


> So---you received an HR20 and not an HR21?
> 
> Nice! :up:


After a lot of phone calls, emails and one cacelled install they "found" a way to ship one.


----------



## Jim Abbett

newsposter said:


> if you are trying to activate the HD pak (dont know if you have it now or what) and the rep says you already have it turned on, ask them to turn it off and turn on the 'new one'. It took over 2 hours and 5 people for them to realize A. i never had it turned on even for HDtivo and B. that they were activating the wrong thing
> 
> enjoy the new HD channels. I love seeing even the SD stuff on the HD channels because the PQ is far superior. No one will argue that point


Will do, thanks for the tip.


----------



## PrimeRisk

Well, it's my turn to see what I get. I got an e-mail from D* last night stating:

"Please call us today at 1-888-763-7772 to upgrade your HD equipment free of charge."

All right then. Let's get it done.

I called this morning and mentioned the e-mail. The CSR seemed initially confused as to why I was calling, but after she pulled up my account she got with the program. Here's what I'll be getting:

1) HD DVR for no charge
2) No Shipping Charges
3) 24 Month Commitment
4) Installer will come to install - I tried to talk them into just shipping it, but no go
(Hope he can handle plugging it in, I already have my 5 LNB)

I want to be able to receive OTA, so I asked questions

Q) What model DVR will I be getting?
A) DirecTV Plus HD DVR

Q) What model number of HD DVR?
A) There is only one model.

Q) No, there are two; Will this one be able to receive off the air like the the HR10-250?
A) Yes, the HD DVR does receive OTA. The HD DVR will do everything that the HR10-250 plus receive all of the new MPEG4 feeds.

I finished by saying if the DVR showed up and didn't support OTA it and the installer would be sent packing. She assured me it would. I said it sounded great and asked one more time if they could just ship the unit and skip the install, but she said no, I wouldn't be able to install it myself.

I didn't get the song and dance about "we can't guarantee a model" like many have.

Maybe the CSR read my account and saw that I raised a ruckus when the installer initially refused to install the OTA antenna when I had my HR10-250 installed and again when the installer didn't want to run the cables for the antenna when I got my HR20.

Maybe D* has heard the complaints and want to keep the people who actually use OTA functionality happy.

Maybe the CSR was just feeding me a line of BS.

I'll let you all know.


----------



## onin24eagle

Prime Risk,

The CSR has no idea what DVR you will get. I was told the same thing, that I'd get a HR20, but the install company sang a different tune. You may want to call the install company to see if they even have any HR20's. Good luck.


----------



## allenn

onin24eagle said:


> Prime Risk,
> 
> The CSR has no idea what DVR you will get. I was told the same thing, that I'd get a HR20, but the install company sang a different tune. You may want to call the install company to see if they even have any HR20's. Good luck.


That would be correct. They have no idea what will be sent. I ordered an HR20 and got an HR21 installed. Ordered a replacement and got another HR21. Finally, D* credited my account to purchase an HR20 locally. Unfortunately, I cannot find an HR20 in the Atlanta area, so I guess I'm stuck with no OTA and an HR21.


----------



## PrimeRisk

onin24eagle,

You're most likely correct, but sometimes D* surprises me.

Unfortunately I get the sub of a subcontractor...The company technically making the appointment is out of Southern CA, but they resub to a different Denver area installer and not always the same one. I've tried to get in contact with the local installer before with no luck. My only hope is if they call me to attempt to change the appointment, then I can ask.


----------



## PrimeRisk

allenn said:


> That would be correct. They have no idea what will be sent. I ordered an HR20 and got an HR21 installed. Ordered a replacement and got another HR21. Finally, D* credited my account to purchase an HR20 locally. Unfortunately, I cannot find an HR20 in the Atlanta area, so I guess I'm stuck with no OTA and an HR21.


Can't you order on online to get what you want? Anyway, the CSR probably doesn't know (or at least can't guarantee), but they made the commitment that I'd get OTA. It's no skin off call D* back to ask them how they're going to meet the commitment for OTA. No OTA solution = no install, no 24 month commitment, unhappy camper.


----------



## allenn

PrimeRisk said:


> Can't you order on online to get what you want?....


I think you got the right attitude about no OTA no install. As far as online purchasing, I would prefer brick and mortar for purchasing a dvr. It would be my luck that I would get another HR21. I have already had to deal with shipping an HR21 back to D*.


----------



## incog-neato

And then if you buy an HR20 and it goes bad you still could get an HR21 to replace it. No ga-rone-tees.


----------



## onin24eagle

I've decided not to worry about whether or not I get the HR20. If I don't I'll just diplex the OTA on the sat line and use the OTA tuner in the TV.


----------



## newsposter

and watch live tv? (where's that super big EEK face when you need it)


----------



## LlamaLarry

newsposter said:


> and watch live tv?


Well, hopefully he can watch one of those newfangled MPEG4 HD locals DirecTV seems to be going on about. 

I don't watch sub channels and have a perfectly fine CM4228/CM7777 setup that now appears to be feeding my receiver for FM and my TV in case I actually watch SD ... live ...

NOT!

I am getting some of the pixelation problems reported on the other board, so I may end up adding my OTA back to the guide. I'll still have two fresh HR20's (2 weeks installed) so at least I have the option.


----------



## cindycrane

I just signed up for DTV HD to go with my new Sony Bravia. I got $300 credit on my tv for signing up while at BB. I asked Dtv to install in 2 rooms with a HD DVR in one room and a SD in other room. I paid $199 for HD receiver(not sure which one) with a $100 mail in rebate. He credited me a 19.95 activation charge. I got the $69 pkg. for $49 for 12 months and premium channels free for 3 months and the balance of the NFL ST for free.

After reading the forum, I have a couple of questions.

Should I call the installer and ask for a HR-20? If I can't get it then should I check out local retailers for one and ask Dtv to credit me? I don't think I'll get local channels so I was planning to use an OTA, which I believe I can use/record with the HR-20. I like to record network primetime shows.

Should I have them wire 4 rooms for future use? Or if the installer will leave enough cable I can do it myself. I'll probably get a 2nd HD tv later this year. Do I need a multi-switch? I'll have 2 HD tvs on my system this year and maybe a 3rd by the end of the year. What's my best plan for the future?

I've copied the order for my service. Does it look correct?

Thanks for your tips.

Order SummaryPrint this page Service Address



Order DateAmount Paid
11/21/2007$212.93
Order Confirmation Number: 44506634 DIRECTV Order Detail:
Description Unit Price Quantity Price 
Welcome to DIRECTV _2007 Q4 Offer B5712/41 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
Programming_DummyName_30061 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
PLUS HD DVR - no locals P000006365000000001 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
DIRECTV 5-LNB Multi-Satellite Dish 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
DIRECTV HD DVR (Expanded HD Prog. Capable) 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
Standard Professional Install 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
Standard IRD 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
HBO 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
STARZ! 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
SHOWTIME 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
Cinemax 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
Handling 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
DVR Service 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
HD Access $0 
$0.00 1 $0.00 
Subtotal: $199.00 
Tax: $13.93 
Total: $212.93 

Installation Appointment: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - Morning (8 AM to Noon)

Please note that an adult must be present for the installation.


----------



## milominderbinder

For those just ordering an HD DVR...

From the HD DVR FAQ:

_What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?_
→ Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide ● Installation Forum

_How can I be sure I will get an HR20 instead of an HR21? I want all of my local channels!_
→ How to get an HR20 instead of HR21

- Craig


----------



## Jim Abbett

Another DTV screw up to be advised about when receiving hardware from DTV for a scheduled install.

My HR20 shows up at my door via FedEx earlier this week.

The installer called this morning to check the install before coming out. I tell him I have the HR20 DVR here ready for him to install. He says he has the HR21 on the truck and can't do anything different than what's on the order. He calls DTV and then calls me back. They can't change the order details without cancelling the install for today and won't talk to him about the details. He has me call DTV to straighten it out.

I *FINALLY* got through to the CSR and his supervisor that I HAVE the particular DVR that THEY sent to me already and I ain't sending it back for a "credit" after the installer installs the one he has for me. We finally got the details worked out.

So, I'm rescheduled again! :down::down::down:

This is more trouble than it's worth!

p.s. Have you ever called DTV and have them mention that their computer system is working correctly?


----------



## PrimeRisk

Well, I'm in the RedZone... The install is scheduled for 8-12 this morning and it is currently 8:20am here. I reviewed my order online and much to my surprise it actually specifies a HR20. From the DTV website:

Description Unit Price Quantity Price

Standard Professional Install $0.00 1 $0.00
Handling $0.00 1 $0.00
Swap Replace HR20 IRD $0.00 1 $0.00
Subtotal: $0.00
Tax: $0.00
Total: $0.00

I'll know soon!


----------



## onin24eagle

PrimeRisk said:


> Well, I'm in the RedZone... The install is scheduled for 8-12 this morning and it is currently 8:20am here. I reviewed my order online and much to my surprise it actually specifies a HR20. From the DTV website:
> 
> Description Unit Price Quantity Price
> 
> Standard Professional Install $0.00 1 $0.00
> Handling $0.00 1 $0.00
> Swap Replace HR20 IRD $0.00 1 $0.00
> Subtotal: $0.00
> Tax: $0.00
> Total: $0.00
> 
> I'll know soon!


I'm in the redzone too. Installer just called to say he'll be here around 1:30. I was scheduled from 8 to 12, but oh well. Hope all goes well, and I'll update later.


----------



## PrimeRisk

Well, it's a bust. The installer showed up and carried in the doomed black box...the HR21. I told the installer that I needed OTA and he said they didn't load the truck with them. They do have a small supply of them from time to time for the people that need OTA, but all he had with him was the HR21. He said I'd have to call back to D* to reschedule and get the HR20 and left. This is where it got bad:

Call #1 (20 Minutes long)

I call D* and get installation and get the song and dance about "You aren't allowed to specify the model". I told him I'm not specifying a model, send any model they want as long as it recorded HD off of Satellite and Antenna. After a very long hold time, he said that they could ship a HR20 directly to me and I'd have to be connected to Installation Escalations to get that done. I was transferred to nowhere and was disconnected.

Call #2 (1 hour long)
I called and asked for Installation Escalations and was connected to someone in installation. I asked if it was Escalations and they said there was no such department. (Anyone know if there is an Install Escalations department?) The CSR then looked at the order she started the "You can't specify" thing again and again I said I'm not specifying a model, just the requirements. She looked into the order and saw where it was documented that customer records OTA and must have recorder that records OTA and said there was an installation note that the equipment delivered was a HR20. (No it wasn't!) She started saying that the HR21 was better than the HR20 and that I'd have to replace my current HR20 in about a year. (What?) I said they are still selling them new in the stores, that I could buy one at Circuit City today. She said that TiVos are no longer supposed to be sold (Oh, ok, she doesn't know the models) So I said ok, whatever, please connect me with the people who can ship me the right box. She said she was the right department and they wouldn't ship me the unit, the installer would bring it and I'd have to take what they brought. She said take it or cancel the order. (WTF?!?!?) I asked to be connected to Customer Retention. She said that was only for disconnects and would not change the order. I said that was fine, transfer me anyway. She said if that's all I wanted she could cancel my account, is that what I wanted? No, please transfer me to Customer Retention. She said no. <Click> I hang up.

Call #3 (1 hour long)
I call and get into Customer Retention. We spend 20 minutes going through the whole "You can't specify" crap...and again I said I don't care if you send a SAT-60 as long as it does OTA and Satellite recording in HD. She said the only way I could guarantee that is to buy it myself. I said fine, credit my account and we're all good. No, they won't do it. If I want that it's at my cost. I say I'll pay the $300 and they don't even have to comp an install as long as no extra commitment and I own the box. No, 2 year commitment and they still own it. I ask about credits or anything else...Nope, pay $300 or take the HR21. I said maybe I'd call Comcast and see what they were offering today. She said ok, she'd cancel the order and the account. I said don't do anything but notate the account that I'm not happy that I'm being asked to give up my OTA or have to pay for the box myself. I asked her to read back the notes and she said:
1) Customer refuses offered equipment and demands to be able to specify the model
2) Customer it going to go to Comcast and will not consider options to call installer or buy unit themselves
3) Customer will call back later to cancel account
4) Order canceled

(WTF?) I didn't say any of that and I told her not to cancel the installation. She said I certainly did and it didn't matter because it was too late and a new order would have to be opened and the best she could offer would be $99 + shipping. (WTF!) Sure enough, the order was canceled online already. I asked her to remove those statements and reinstate the original order and forward me to a supervisor. Nope, take the $99 deal or leave it. NO! I'll call back to someone who wants to cooperate.

Call #4 (30 minutes long)
I'm quite unhappy now. I get Customer Retention and immediately ask for a supervisor. The gentleman asks if he can't help me first and I say no, my problem is with a Retention CSR, I get to a supervisor. The supervisor looks at my account and asks if I'm now canceling my account and I said not unless I have to and I tell him all I want is the HD DVR that records Satellite and OTA as I was promised. He asked why I wanted OTA as Denver locals are already in MPEG4. I said there are a number of channels that are not on D* such as PBS and the 3 sub channels. He said no problem, we'll specify a HR20 with the installer and if they don't have one we'll have one shipped direct. (Cool! That only took 30 seconds of explanation) All I have to do is call the install company 4 days ahead of the install to confirm a HR20 and call back if they don't. (Sweet!) He asked if I would be willing to be called back about my previous call and the overall experience as he felt it called for further review. I'd love to!

Installer call (today)
They have the order, it specifies a HR20. They currently do have HR20s, but they are very low stock and they cannot guarantee they will have one available at the time of my install. I asked if they could have the installer call me before he comes out as if they don't have the HR20 I won't take the HR21. They said no problem and verified the contact number.

Wholy crap, what a waste of time and effort. I'll report back next week to see if I actually end up with a HR20.


----------



## onin24eagle

PrimeRisk,

WTF! Makes you wonder how they stay in business eh? My installer who called to say he'd be 1 1/2 hours late and be here at 1:30 is still not here at 2:40. He has not called again to say he will be later than expected, so the wait continures. I'm trying to remain calm.


----------



## rickmeoff

prime risk:

this is one of the reasons i may end up leaving dtv for cable and switch to the tivo hd. i have several more units i need to swap out within the next year (hr10s), and im currently getting ready to setup my ma with a new sony hdtv for xmas, along with a tivo hd, so ill see how that goes and what the costs incurred are beofr i make up my mind. so far it seems like a fairly even swapout.

but the fact that dtv has 2 different dvrs and you cannot specify which one you get, is baloney.

the fact that some folks get them for free, while others pay upwards of $299 is baloney.

that theyve raised the cancellation fee on the 2 year commit, is also.....you guessed it, baloney. especially in light of the fact that prices on the tivo hd unit is coming down, and lifetime is being offered as an option again.


----------



## PrimeRisk

rickmeoff:

Yeah, I was at the in-laws for Thanksgiving and they just got a brand spanky new TiVoHD with lifetime. Comcast is NOT charging 2 fees for the two cable cards and the picture is everything that D* offers. Plus Comcast is beginning to release the ComcastTiVo in the area. 

I can easily be quoted as referring to that company as Comcrap for their never ending search for new lows in customer service, but D* is giving them a run for the money right now.


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## onin24eagle

Okay, installer did show at 4:00. I told him he could mount the dish and I'd mount the multiswitch and hook up both the HR20's. Yes, they actually did bring the HR20's I requested, so I will have OTA options. I haven't had time to play with anything yet since the installer didn't leave until 6:15. I was supposed to be at a family dinner at 5:00, so as soon as he finished I bolted. Now I'm to tired to play, so I'll mess with everything tomorrow. One thing I do like though is the simultaneous output of all resolutions. I write more later on.


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## newsposter

prime not that it will make a difference but i'd send a copy of your post to the front office at directv...they need to hear stuff like this


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## Budget_HT

PrimeRisk said:


> ...
> Installer call (today)
> They have the order, it specifies a HR20. They currently do have HR20s, but they are very low stock and they cannot guarantee they will have one available at the time of my install. I asked if they could have the installer call me before he comes out as if they dont have the HR20 I wont take the HR21. They said no problem and verified the contact number.
> 
> Wholy crap, what a waste of time and effort. I'll report back next week to see if I actually end up with a HR20.


When I purchased my 2nd HR10 some time ago (before leases), they insisted on delivering and installing, even though I had a multiswitch and spare ports ready and waiting.

The installation company failed to appear THREE TIMES (only called me once). I had to escalate back through DirecTV to finally get an installer to my home. Once he arrived, he was polite and respectful. I had to explaiin to him how my two cascaded multiswitches worked and why it was okay to hook the new HR10 to the second-in-line multiswitch. He ended up running 5 inside cables from my equipment closet to the living room (for HR10 and HDVR2 + OTA) and he checked and replaced a few jumper cables that were not RG-6 (even though it should not matter on a 3' cable).

So, installation finally completed successfully, albeit 7 weeks later than originally scheduled.

Next pain was getting DirecTV to process the promised rebate for $200. I called twice a month for 6 months, with the last call being directed to their executive offices that handled formal consumer complaints (after I told them my next call was to the state attorney general). Since the rebate offer had expired and they could not process my rebate that was repeatedly acknowledged to be in the system somewhere, I was given a $200 credit on my account, although they were worried that my rebate might till come through. Of course it never did.

I hope your upcoming experiences are better.

GOOD LUCK!!


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## rickmeoff

PrimeRisk said:


> rickmeoff:
> 
> Yeah, I was at the in-laws for Thanksgiving and they just got a brand spanky new TiVoHD with lifetime. Comcast is NOT charging 2 fees for the two cable cards and the picture is everything that D* offers. Plus Comcast is beginning to release the ComcastTiVo in the area.
> 
> I can easily be quoted as referring to that company as Comcrap for their never ending search for new lows in customer service, but D* is giving them a run for the money right now.


well here, you can get the m card for 2.45 a month, or 2 s cards for 1.95 ea a month. and they dont charge an install fee like other areas often do.

to me itll come down to what they will be offering in hd, vs what dtv is offering (and their respective prices). verizon also just installed fios lines in my moms front yard (last week!) so that too will be another option soon, although admittedly im not at all familiar with the differences between verizon/fios and bright house cable.............yet, lol. everybody seems to rae about fios so ill hafta look for what the buzz is all about.

in any event, im sorry you had to go thru so much bs with dtv. thats absolutely unacceptable, and their customer service is most definitely on the downward slope, which is very unfortunate as they used to be one of the best.


----------



## PrimeRisk

rickmeoff said:


> in any event, im sorry you had to go thru so much bs with dtv. thats absolutely unacceptable, and their customer service is most definitely on the downward slope, which is very unfortunate as they used to be one of the best.


I haven't given up on D* yet. Most of my experiences with their Customer Service have been positive. I'm not sure why they are taking this tact with the HR21s. I'm not upset about not being given a choice about the model of unit with the offer for a free upgrade. What I'm upset about is that if I bring up that I was told I'd keep my OTA capability I get a very patronizing attitude that I'm not allowed to specify the model of receiver. By this logic if the installer showed up with a R15 I'd have no room to complain. I never specified a model and would be ecstatic if they could magically give me OTA capability in a HR21. The HR10-250 is the only silver-faced piece of equipment in the rack, I'd love to have the black fact of the HR21 in there, but not without OTA capability.


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## jetcobra

I just called DTV and requested a free upgrade to the HR20 (I have two HR10's, so I will get two HR20's). I'll still keep the HR10's connected to eventually view all of my recorded content. I already have one HR20 installed along with the new dish and multiswitch. I have updated both TIVO's with twin 250 GB HDD's, but I see the writing on the wall. I already have external 750 GB HDD's for each of the HR20's to upgrade the capacity and I will also network them.

The CSR immediately said "Fine" and set up my appointment for next Monday. I reaffirmed that I would get HR20's, not the HR21, and he said yes I would get the HR20. He also gave the me the telephone number of the installation company, so I can check with them to verify this. He also said that I could keep my HR10's, no problem, and that there was no additional commitment.

I'll let you know if I have any problems. I've been with DTV since '95 and have the grandfathered Total Choice package along with HD, Regional Sports Channels, NY SD feeds for CBS and ABC (I'm in L.A.) and ESPN Gameplan for both football and basketball, but no other premium packages.


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## jerrymc

I just got off the phone with DirecTV's Dedicated Upgrade Hotline (888-763-7772). I had received a recorded message saying I was eligible for an HD upgrade of my HR10's and to call this hotline. Here's what I got:


(2) new HD DVRs on lease terms (no guarantee they'll be HR20's of course)
Relocate my (2) HR10's for me if I choose
Upgrade my dish to the new 5LNB
No charge for any of the above
No new or extended commitment

The last was the important part for me since my current commitment is over in two weeks! The installation is scheduled for Thursday morning. I have the number for the installation servicing company and will try to contact the installer about getting the HR20 and not the HR21.

I've been a customer since Jan 2002. I'll report on the experience, good bad or indifferent.

-Jerry


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## kroddy

Finally got mine installed this morning - got a 21, not a 20, but I guess I can live with that... I'll be keeping the Tivo up for a while until I have all my season passes moved over and OTA is not really all that important to me... supposedly completely free, but I'll only believe that for sure when the next bill arrives. Thinking I might have a ***** to customer services about the lack of OTA to see if they will waive the extra receiver fee for a while, but not sure I can be bothered. I just want to watch my TV, not spend hours on the phone trying to get what I want


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## rickmeoff

jerrymc said:


> I just got off the phone with DirecTV's Dedicated Upgrade Hotline (888-763-7772). I had received a recorded message saying I was eligible for an HD upgrade of my HR10's and to call this hotline. Here's what I got:
> 
> 
> (2) new HD DVRs on lease terms (no guarantee they'll be HR20's of course)
> Relocate my (2) HR10's for me if I choose
> Upgrade my dish to the new 5LNB
> No charge for any of the above
> No new or extended commitment
> 
> The last was the important part for me since my current commitment is over in two weeks! The installation is scheduled for Thursday morning. I have the number for the installation servicing company and will try to contact the installer about getting the HR20 and not the HR21.
> 
> I've been a customer since Jan 2002. I'll report on the experience, good bad or indifferent.
> 
> -Jerry


trust me, your commitment will be extended by 2 years.

i guarantee it.


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## hekhl00

Called the number above this morning. Quoted $299 for the HR20/21. Told them that wasn't good enough and they offered $10 off for 12 months. Politely said no thanks, that my commitment was almost up and I had other options. Was transferred to another dept. It was the Boise call center. CSR was very helpful. No charge for a HR20/21. $199 for a 2nd receiver (only have one HR10 now) plus free HD for a year and another $30 in credits. Noted on the work order that I needed the HR20 and would refuse a HR21. Said if I got a HR21 I could buy my own HR20 and they would give me credit (my Costco still has them). All in all pretty painless.

Going to Costco to buy the HR20 now just in case. Can always return it. YMMV.


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## cmassa

I got an automated call from D* the Friday after Thanksgiving stating that I needed to upgrade my HD equipment (HR10-250) and it would be free of charge. I called the number on Monday and have an install scheduled for Friday. As they said there would be no charge. The CSR told me it would likely be an HR20 but could not guarantee it. I didn't haggle for any more deals because I feel that changing my equipment for free is good enough. I can keep my HR10-250 which I will use in place of a D10 receiver. It extends my agreement for 2 years but I really didn't care. I don't want to cancel anyway and have been a customer since 1997. We'll see how the install goes on Friday.


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## yoV6cam

how did evryone get this cal and get theirs free of charge? I've been a customer since 97 with too and i didn't get one.


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## hekhl00

yoV6cam said:


> how did evryone get this cal and get theirs free of charge? I've been a customer since 97 with too and i didn't get one.


I didn't get the call. Just called them at the number a few posts up. They ended up not being the right call center but they transferred me and it was pretty easy from there.


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## bigpuma

I got the call but when I tried calling DirecTV the computer wouldn't allow him to put in the order even though he said there was a note in my account about the call. I suspect this is because I upgraded free of charge over a year ago. The CSR said he would escalate this and see if I could still get the upgrade. I am going to try calling again soon. I would like a 2nd HR20 for the bedroom.


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## jerrymc

rickmeoff said:


> trust me, your commitment will be extended by 2 years.
> 
> i guarantee it.


I won't argue that it's not a possibility. However, the rep told me there would be no new commitment before I brought it up. I asked her to note the deal on my account and that I would call back later. When I called back a day later, I asked the (different) rep to confirm the deal to me and she also confirmed the no new commitment.

I have my notes from the calls. If my commitment gets extended, I'll call them and politely invite them to take their equipment back. The installer is here today (the dish didn't get onto the work order - big shock). We'll see what happens.

-Jerry


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## jaypb

bigpuma said:


> I got the call but when I tried calling DirecTV the computer wouldn't allow him to put in the order even though he said there was a note in my account about the call. I suspect this is because I upgraded free of charge over a year ago. The CSR said he would escalate this and see if I could still get the upgrade. I am going to try calling again soon. I would like a 2nd HR20 for the bedroom.


I received the call as well (last night as a matter of fact)....and this is AFTER I called last Friday to *negotiate* a reduced cost addition of a 2nd HD DVR to my account. I received one in April or May on the arm....but the best I could do on this go round was $199 minus the HD service free for 12 months....which I'm more than ok with. But then receiving that automated phone call last night tickled me in the wrong way....so now I'm going to see what they have to say when I call them back.

I really don't want an HR21 for $99 either....but if it's *free* I'll feel a little better about it.....I guess I can record OTA HD on one of my 4 other HD DVR's.....


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## rickmeoff

jerrymc said:


> I won't argue that it's not a possibility. However, the rep told me there would be no new commitment before I brought it up. I asked her to note the deal on my account and that I would call back later. When I called back a day later, I asked the (different) rep to confirm the deal to me and she also confirmed the no new commitment.
> 
> I have my notes from the calls. If my commitment gets extended, I'll call them and politely invite them to take their equipment back. The installer is here today (the dish didn't get onto the work order - big shock). We'll see what happens.
> 
> -Jerry


hey jerry, good for you getting them to notate it on yer account. most times people simply get a verbal from a csr, and then end up surprised to hear that theyre locked in for another 2 years, lol.

that said, unless you plan on leaving them anytime soon (which i assume you arent), i guess its not really that big of a deal. me personally, i like having the ability to change without being penalized if i so choose, but nothing better has come along in the last 6 years, so i doubt anything will pop up in the next 2.

ya never know tho, lol.


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## incog-neato

They are in California. LA area is being upgraded at no charge. You might still get freebies elsewhere but LA is virtually guaranteed.


yoV6cam said:


> how did evryone get this cal and get theirs free of charge? I've been a customer since 97 with too and i didn't get one.


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## Ereth

That bites. I called them to try to get a discount on another HR20 and they wouldn't come off the $299 price. The best they would offer was $10 credit for a year.

I'd really like another HR20, and since OTA isn't important, I could settle for an HR21, but I don't want to pay $300 for it.


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## yoV6cam

I just got 2 HR20's for 299$ each minus 250$ credit so its only about 348$ plus it says on the order online at acct management that they gave me a "no new commitment" charge, and the CSR didn't ask me if I wanted to extend at all, so I guess that's good...I hope.


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## l_bgriffin

I did the upgrade dance now that I have a plasma in the basement, got no guarantees about an HR20. I called the local install crew and they said they have NO HR20's and to call DirecTV back, which after getting to a second guy, he suggested getting one retail and waiting to see what the install crew brings out. If they bring an HR21, he'd credit my account $199, so I got an HR20-700 at Costco for $269 before tax.

Now, here's my question, I spoke to a supervisor at the local installer and he said I CANNOT use a diplexer to mix my OTA antenna signal and the satellite signal on the same coax due to the Ku band (new HD signals) NOT working thru a diplexer! I questioned him and he insisted that's the deal. Not that I don't trust him, I just have not heard that here. Is this true or has anyone else run into this?

So, he's gonna need to run another RG-6 in my walls for the OTA.

Thoughts?
Bill


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## PrimeRisk

Well, I've finally got my 2nd HR20-700, but what a long frustrating trip it has been. After all of the runaround last weekend I thought I had everything setup to go. I talked to the installer twice during the week to ensure that they had noted my account that I needed OTA capability and the night before to make sure they had the HR20 in stock and would put one in the van going out on my install. Everything was green light all the way. My install was notated that I had to have a HR20 and that if the installer showed up with a HR21 that I would not allow it to be installed.

The installer showed up and wanted to get started right away. I asked immediately if he had the HR20. He said yeah, he&#8217;s got the HD DVR in the van. I asked what model, and he again said HD DVR. I said I have to have OTA. He said sure, no problems, I&#8217;d have my locals in HD. I told him that the installers were out last week and brought a HR21 and I sent them away. I told him that if he did the wiring and replaced the multi-switch and then brought in a HR21 he&#8217;d be sent away and I would sign nothing. As long as he understood that&#8217;s how I would handle things, then wire away. He finally admitted that it was a HR21. (Great, I have a lying SOB on my hands) He calls his supervisor and asks about a HR20 and I can hear the supervisor telling him to tell me that all of the OTA channels will be on the satellite by the end of the year. I loudly tell him to put it writing with a get out of contract free guarantee and we were in business. The installer tells the supervisor that I can hear him. He steps outside and I call D*. 

I apparently caught a break on last weekend&#8217;s interaction when I cancelled the 1st order. When I called and cancelled I made SURE they deleted the 2 year commitment for the new install. They dropped it ok, and seemed to have lost the 2 year commitment I entered into in January 07. Goodie for me. The CSR I talked to today about the screwed up install was very direct. She just asked what I need. I said I needed a DVR that recorded HD from Sat and OTA. She said ok, you&#8217;re a legacy HD customer with a long good payer history, we want you to be happy. She asked if my installer had called the warehouse to see if there was one available; he had and it wasn&#8217;t. She asked if I would be willing to go get a DVR from a local retailer and be credited for $199 + a free year of HD service ($120). I said absolutely! She said she&#8217;d apply the free year of HD access now, but the $199 credit wouldn&#8217;t be applied until I actually activated the HR20. Deal! She asked if the installer was still there (he was). She said have him do the wiring, but not install the box. OK! Off we go. The installer did the wiring work and went on his way.

Off to Circuit City! I was expecting to pay $299, but they&#8217;ve got a deal going for existing D* customers for an instant $100 off the HD DVRs. The store had a stack of HR20s standing on an end cap. I grabbed one and off to find someone to ring me up. That took awhile, but mission accomplished. I have a HR20.

Back at home I unbox and plug in the HR20 and fire her up. Luck is with me and it&#8217;s a good unit. I call to activate and the fun begins. They activate the new unit, deactivate the HR10, and ask me if there is anything else they can do. Yup, apply my $199 credit. The CSR says he sees the note on my account, but he&#8217;ll have to put me on hold for a minute. After he comes back he tells me his limit is $100 and asks if that is ok. I say no. He says he&#8217;ll have to forward me to a different department. The next CSR wants to walk through the whole scenario about why I wanted a HR20 instead of a HR21 and that I couldn&#8217;t specify the model crap and etc. I stop him and tell him that the deal is done, I have the unit I need, it&#8217;s installed, and I&#8217;m tired and just want to wrap everything up. He puts me on hold and comes back and says that they won&#8217;t credit me until they get the HR10 back in the mail. Now I&#8217;m furious, that wasn&#8217;t part of the deal. I tell him no, it wasn&#8217;t part of the deal and I&#8217;m not sending the unit back. He tells me send the unit back or no credit. I again say that we had a deal and it&#8217;s in the notes. He says he won&#8217;t honor it. I say if you won&#8217;t honor it we&#8217;re done; Cancel the account. He says ok, he&#8217;ll cancel the activation. I say no, everything, I&#8217;ll take my business to Comcast. He asks me to hold again. He comes back and says ok, he&#8217;ll honor the $199 credit, but I have to deactivate the HR10 and won&#8217;t be allowed to reactivate it on the account. I tell him it was already supposed to be deactivated and invited him to be my guest. I log on to my account and sure enough, they had billed me for an additional receiver and to my surprise he&#8217;s charged me $299 for the DVR and has added a DVR service fee which is included in my Premier package, but has applied the $199 credit. Now I just come unglued. The SOB is actually trying to tell me that he has to charge me the $299 so he can give me the $199 discount (?!?!?) and the package I have only covers TiVo service and TiVos are different than DVRs. Holy crap, this guy is so dense that light must bend when it gets close to him. 

I&#8217;ve gotten it all straightened out now, but it took almost 2 hours on the phone.


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## rickmeoff

its absolutely amazing what we hafta go through dealing with dtv sometimes, and this is yet another illustration of this. that the 2nd csr wanted you to go through the whole scenario of why you required ota, even tho it was in the notes on yer account, is absolutely outrageous.

they act like the $ is coming outta their own freakin pocket! yet another example as to the continuous inconsistencies associated with dtv.

keep a close eye on your bill, lol.


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## kkluba

It isn't comforting to hear these horror stories since I just pulled the plug on two HR20 replacements for my two HR10-250's yesterday. Having read everyone's experience I had the D* CSR make the note on my account that I have to get HR20's or no deal. There is no cost to me for two HR20's and a new dish installed. 

My question is.. if the install company doesn't have HR20's should I do the retail purchase thing with D* and expect to get full credit? It could be $400-$600 total (for two) depending on retail price. I am of the thinking that I will tell D* when you can come out and install HR20's I will sign up and until then no deal.


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## toddcurry

Called the number. I have 3 HR10-250s to upgrade, and was offered $100 off the first two, $119 in programming credits, so ~$580 for three units. 

No way. If I have to switch away from TiVo, I'm going to take a real look around (Comcast and Dish). I think AT&T offers some bundle with Dish that gets me lower prices on my phone / cell, too.

Only ~$100 to cancel, so we'll see.


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## Sir_winealot

toddcurry said:


> Called the number. I have 3 HR10-250s to upgrade, and was offered $100 off the first two, $119 in programming credits, so ~$580 for three units.
> 
> No way. If I have to switch away from TiVo, I'm going to take a real look around (Comcast and Dish). I think AT&T offers some bundle with Dish that gets me lower prices on my phone / cell, too.
> 
> Only ~$100 to cancel, so we'll see.


Wow, I wouldn't go for that either. Wonder if you just asked to upgrade 1 unit, if they'd give you that one for free? Then you can usually deal every 6 months.

Sounds like you've got around 8 months left on your commitment? You might have more leverage when that gets close to running out ...IF you're up to waiting.


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## rick_in_denver

I received an email offering a free upgrade to my HD receiver. I have two HR10-250 receivers and two standard definition receivers (non-DVR). In reading this thread, it seems that other people have been able to use this offer to get the HR-20 or HR-21 and retain their HR10-250. I've called twice and been told each time that the "free upgrade" would require sending the two HR10-250 receivers that I own back in exchange for two leased HR-21 receivers and a shiny reset to a two year commitment (can't get OTA HD, so the HR-20 vs HR-21 issue doesn't matter to me.)

I am not happy with the idea of losing two receivers that I own in exchange for two receivers that I would lease. The two standard definition receivers are fairly recent editions. I can see where they could be reconditioned and put into service with another customer. The two HR10-250 receivers can only be scrapped if they get sent back. If I keep the HR10-250 receivers, they can still be used as SD DVRs even after the MPEG-2 streams are shut off.

I've used an R-15 at work for the last year or so and, unless the interface is substantially better/different on the HR-21, it pretty much sucks. I don't watch sports, so Sunday Ticket is a non-issue for me. I've been a customer since 1996. I am in no hurry to return to cable, but DTV is working on my last nerve. Neither CSA I talked to would even discuss the possibility of leaving my HR10-250 receivers. The only option offered if I wanted to keep them and still add the new HD channels was to pay full price to add the lease of two HR-21 receivers to my account. 

So, am I just having bad luck with CSAs? Has the window closed to be able to keep my HR-10-250 receivers while adding the new channels? Do I just keep calling back to see if there will ever be a discussion of something better than "we take your HDTivo or you pay full price?" Ask for a supervisor? Ask for retention? I would just take a pass on the offer if DTV were being consistent in requiring that the customer surrender their HR10-250, but it sure seems like a bunch of other folks are having their cake and eating it, too. Hell, I like cake... 

I never though anyone could make Comcast look good, but these folks are definitely giving it a try.


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## barry728

Rick in Denver they told me the same thing so I've stopped talking to them. I am keeping my HR10-250 that I purchased for $900 when they first came out and forgoing the new HD channels for now. That is until they make me a better offer or stop service on the HR10-250 at which time I will go to back to cable. I've been with directv for 9 years and used to love the company, now all of the goodwill is gone. It's not all bad though, I have a DVDO VP-30 video processor with the ABT-102 chip. It makes sd look pretty good, good enough not to bend over for directv.

I can hardly wait for FIOS.


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## Dmtalon

Well,

It looks like I have an appointment scheduled for Friday to be 'upgraded' to the new HD-DVR. I am keeping my old one (that I own) and moving it down stairs. Deactivating an old SD receiver and having the new one installed at our HDTV.

I called the installer last week to see if they have HR20's and they *say* they do, however the person I spoke to there was not real interested in customer service.

All this for the grand price of: $0 + 24 mo commitment.

We'll see how it all works out...


----------



## khark

khark said:


> I got the call last night offering to replace my two HR10-250s for free including free shipping.
> 
> I told the woman that I already had an installation scheduled for 11/17 but I was paying for it even though they had given me several rebates and credits. She put me on hold and when she came back she said my previous installation could be canceled and a new order placed.
> 
> I asked if I could keep my old units and she said "yes you can since you own them" and I told her that I wanted to keep the HR10-250s active and that I would deactivate the two Philips 6000s. She said that would be OK.
> 
> I now have the installation scheduled for 11/21 so it turns out the call saved me around $100 or so and I don't need to wait for my programming credits over a year's time.
> 
> I asked whether I would be getting the HR20 or HR21 and she said probably HR20 but that it all depends on what the installer has in stock.
> 
> The OTA isn't that big a deal to me since I am over 100 miles from the "local" transmitters so my OTA reception is pretty sporatic.


After the installation was finished and everything was working, I called DirecTv and asked about the free HD access and programming I had been promised on my canceled order.

The guy looked at the notes on my account and said "sure I can give you the year of free HD access and Cinemax and I will also throw in Starz for 3 months".

I then asked him if there was any way he could enter a compliment for the way the installation and he said "sure, but we don't get that very often, we usually just get complaints".

So the bottom line on my deal was that I got 2 new HR-21-700s and installation, free HD access and 3 months of Cinemax and Starz so they actually paid me about $180 to take the new DVRs. I also kept all of the old Tivos.


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## Jim Abbett

khark said:


> After the installation was finished and everything was working, I called DirecTv and asked about the free HD access and programming I had been promised on my canceled order.
> 
> The guy looked at the notes on my account and said "sure I can give you the year of free HD access and Cinemax and I will also throw in Starz for 3 months".
> 
> I then asked him if there was any way he could enter a compliment for the way the installation and he said "sure, but we don't get that very often, we usually just get complaints".
> 
> So the bottom line on my deal was that I got 2 new HR-21-700s and installation, free HD access and 3 months of Cinemax and Starz so they actually paid me about $180 to take the new DVRs. I also kept all of the old Tivos.


I got a follow up call regarding my recent install. My installer was good and efficient. I let DTV know. So far, so good with the HR20.


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## DennisMileHi

I'll keep this simple. I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade my two HR-10s to the new HR20 or HR21. Called D*, told the computer to cancel service to get to retention. The CSR was knowledgable and helpful. Getting at least one HR20 for OTA, new dish, free install for $0. Didn't ask for any programming credits. They had an installer available tomorrow so they're coming tomorrow afternoon to install.

I called the install company to request at least one HR20 for OTA. Was told no problem... we will see. 

I will keep my HR10s and move them eventually to replace a couple old RCA receivers after we watch the currently recorded programs.

Too bad so many people have had such a hassle. If the install goes well, I will definitely give D* some kudos. 

I did ask the CSR if she knew about any negotiations to get PBS local carraige on the spot beam and she said she knew there were discussions going on. I also asked about future TIVO DVRs since they had sent a flyer a while ago promoting TIVO. She didn't know about that, but said I could change to new DVRs if they become available since the new units were leased (including the two year commitment).


----------



## milominderbinder

DennisMileHi said:


> I'll keep this simple. I decided to bite the bullet and upgrade my two HR-10s to the new HR20 or HR21. Called D*, told the computer to cancel service to get to retention. The CSR was knowledgable and helpful. Getting at least one HR20 for OTA, new dish, free install for $0. Didn't ask for any programming credits. They had an installer available tomorrow so they're coming tomorrow afternoon to install.
> 
> I called the install company to request at least one HR20 for OTA. Was told no problem... we will see.
> 
> I will keep my HR10s and move them eventually to replace a couple old RCA receivers after we watch the currently recorded programs.
> 
> Too bad so many people have had such a hassle. If the install goes well, I will definitely give D* some kudos.
> 
> I did ask the CSR if she knew about any negotiations to get PBS local carraige on the spot beam and she said she knew there were discussions going on. I also asked about future TIVO DVRs since they had sent a flyer a while ago promoting TIVO. She didn't know about that, but said I could change to new DVRs if they become available since the new units were leased (including the two year commitment).


You are on the right track!

For those just ordering an HD DVR, follow what Dennis is doing...

From the HD DVR FAQ:

_What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?_
→ Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide ● Installation Forum

_How can I be sure I will get an HR20 instead of an HR21? I want all of my local channels!_
→ How to get an HR20 instead of HR21

- Craig


----------



## jaypb

DennisMileHi said:


> I did ask the CSR if she knew about any negotiations to get PBS local carraige on the spot beam and she said she knew there were discussions going on. I also asked about future TIVO DVRs since they had sent a flyer a while ago promoting TIVO. She didn't know about that, but said I could change to new DVRs if they become available since the new units were leased (including the two year commitment).


I just spent about 25 minutes on the phone with different reps from the outside installment company DirecTech, trying to figure out if the local installers had any HR20's in stock for my upgrade tomorrow. After going round and round, she finally landed a spvsr at the Piscataway NJ install office and they indeed only had HR21's....which is a problem for me, but not the end of the world in that I still have 4 HR10's and 1 HR20.

Anyway, talk about misinformation or just plain misinterpretation of information. She told me that, I "shouldn't worry about OTA local channel reception anyway because the gentleman I just spoke to told me that OTA capability will be disabled right after the Super Bowl and you'll have to get a converter box to receive those signals anyway".......

I drooled uncontrollably for about 10 seconds before I just thanked her and hung up the phone.....but not before she told me to "go with the flow on this one, because Directv's signal is better than a rooftop antenna and they have more of a selection of channels....."



Run away....run fast....but just run.....


----------



## andrews1989

PrimeRisk said:


> ...
> Off to Circuit City! I was expecting to pay $299, but they've got a deal going for existing D* customers for an instant $100 off the HD DVRs. The store had a stack of HR20s standing on an end cap. I grabbed one and off to find someone to ring me up. That took awhile, but mission accomplished. I have a HR20.
> 
> ... I've gotten it all straightened out now, but it took almost 2 hours on the phone.


PrimeRisk could you explain how you were able to receive the INSTANT $100 off the HD DVR's? I just called Circuit City and they have no clue about that promotion and I am wondering if there is something like a promotion code I could give them. Thanks!


----------



## [email protected]

barry728 said:


> I am keeping my HR10-250 that I purchased for $900 when they first came out and forgoing the new HD channels for now. That is until they make me a better offer or stop service on the HR10-250 at which time I will go to back to cable.


I elected to switch immediately. I'll be cancelling my DirecTV susbscription about a month from now, so the HR10-250 (and the old SA-T60 with a lifetime TiVo subscription  will be relegated to the "obsolete equipment" pile (or, more likely, sold to a friend who is not happy with the non-Tivo DVR).

I've now got a couple of HD TiVo boxes hooked up to digital cable, and am just beginning to play with all the cool new TiVo features (transferring shows to the other unit over my home wireless network, the "recently deleted" folder, etc., etc.)

It wasn't a slam dunk by any means - DirecTV had a few extra channels (of those that I care about) in HD. But I suspect cable will catch up eventually, probably within the 24-month commitment period, while I don't see DirecTV going back to genuine TiVo DVRs. Plus, with cable, I can switch my internet service to 8Mb over cable - better than 20x my current DSL.


----------



## newsposter

jaypb said:


> Anyway, talk about misinformation or just plain misinterpretation of information. She told me that, I "shouldn't worry about OTA local channel reception anyway because the gentleman I just spoke to told me that OTA capability will be disabled right after the Super Bowl and you'll have to get a converter box to receive those signals anyway".......


you really make me wish i started my 'faulty' csr thread i wanted to years ago. that's one of the best lines i've heard.


----------



## kkluba

I have the 5LNB dish and 2 HR20's scheduled for install next Monday morning. I have specified to only bring the HR20 and called the local install company and they have that on the order. We shall see.. The cost to me is $0 for the two DVR's and dish. I also got D* to throw in the lease fee for one year and HD for 6 months.

If the installer shows up with HR21's I'll turn him away. Not a chance I'll take the HR21. I've got an antenna with line of sight to the main transmission tower in our area (SF Bay Area) and get about 20 channels with signal strenghts 80 and up. I'm not about to give it up.


----------



## jaypb

newsposter said:


> you really make me wish i started my 'faulty' csr thread i wanted to years ago. that's one of the best lines i've heard.


She was a nice enough lady....she jumped through hoops to FINALLY contact my "local installation office" to see what they had in stock....but man, she hadn't a CLUE of what she was talking about. And after being on the phone with her for 20 or so minutes, I just didn't want to get into an edjumacation lesson on HD and their own equipment!!!


----------



## kbspn

Ok - I am brand new to all this. I have been with Directv for a while but have always had a SD Tivo from them which I love. I was going to order a HR10-250 from ebay but just realized I would not get Locals from reading. If I just want one box that does it all what receiver from DTV should I get and if I am upgrading to HD for the first time what kind of deal should I expect to get? CSR seems to offer nothing since I am an existing customer who's last 2 -year contract does not come due until March 08. Thanks for the advice in advance!!


----------



## Avenger

Hi All,

Just enjoying being back from my one-week "vacation."  

Anyhow, during that time, I finally broke down and called DirecTV to see about ordering an HR2x. I was inspired by some of the deals I saw people getting here, and was interested in seeing what they might offer me. My current 2-year commitment is up in April, 2008.

I ended up on the phone with them for 45 minutes, pushing the issue with them, and arguing that they have essentially turned my two HR10's into very costly paperweights by virtue of their change to MPEG4, thereby creating an obligation on their part to give me a reasonable break on upgraded equipment -- especially as a nine-year customer.

They would not budge readily. It took huffing and puffing and threatening to go to cable -- but I finally got them to give me an HR2x and the 5-slot dish upgrade for $99, which is about as good as I could have expected under the circumstances. My install is slated for the 31st. 

I assume I'll get an HR21. But Madison, WI HD locals are on the sat, so it really makes no difference to me.


----------



## fjwagner

welcome back!


----------



## PrimeRisk

andrews1989 said:


> PrimeRisk could you explain how you were able to receive the INSTANT $100 off the HD DVR's? I just called Circuit City and they have no clue about that promotion and I am wondering if there is something like a promotion code I could give them. Thanks!


There was no promo code that I am aware of. I went to the Aurora store on Abilene and they had 1 unit left on the shelf and the placard said $299 and below the price it said "$100 rebate available, as for details". I asked and they said there was a $100 instant rebate for existing D* customers. Their web system was down so they sent me to the Denver store on Colorado Blvd, but they had the same deal and many units in stock.


----------



## Nick19711

I just called the dedicated upgrade line to make sure i'm getting an HR20 and NOT an HR21. When I explained the whole local OTA channels / antenna issue, the lady asked me what I was going to do in February when we couldn't receive television via antenna anymore.

Hoo boy..............clueless........


----------



## Dmtalon

Sometime between 11-1pm I should find out if my request for Directv to put that I want a HR20 on the work order happens or not. 

When I called the local installer they forwarded me to directv's installer line. So basically they didn't help me at all.


----------



## Jim Abbett

I wonder if they will ever back up and make the HR20 available in great numbers?

It might be easier for them.

I just realised that I get 27 local channels OTA. only about 6 of those are carried by DTV.


----------



## kmramos

Just a couple words of warning to folks requesting an HR20. There is no way the DirecTV CSRs can control what unit you will get. In my experience, there is almost zero real communication with the local installer.

After one canceled installation, I purchased an HR20-700 from Circuit City and was promised a credit for the full price (as I had been offered a $0 upgrade). I still haven't seen the credit, although I was once again told this morning that it should appear on my bill today.

The other issue for those wanting OTA with the HR20 is that the installer may balk at running the extra cable. Even though I was assured several times that the OTA line was included in the installation and was on the work order, I had two installers refuse to do it unless I paid extra. The last installer told me that their work order _did not contain any codes for the OTA cable installation. Fortunately, he was a nice, well-informed guy who simply split my OTA from my HR10-250 that sits beside the new HR20.

So, after four installers, and countless hours waiting I finally have what I was originally promised. I cannot believe how badly DirecTV is handling this HR20/21 situation._


----------



## incog-neato

I had one rep tell me (by email) the OTA inputs on the HR20 were turned off recently.


Nick19711 said:


> I just called the dedicated upgrade line to make sure i'm getting an HR20 and NOT an HR21. When I explained the whole local OTA channels / antenna issue, the lady asked me what I was going to do in February when we couldn't receive television via antenna anymore.
> 
> Hoo boy..............clueless........


----------



## bigpuma

bigpuma said:


> I got the call but when I tried calling DirecTV the computer wouldn't allow him to put in the order even though he said there was a note in my account about the call. I suspect this is because I upgraded free of charge over a year ago. The CSR said he would escalate this and see if I could still get the upgrade. I am going to try calling again soon. I would like a 2nd HR20 for the bedroom.


Well I called back and was able to get a second HR2x for free. The CSR even put in a credit for the shipping and handling charge. I am all set for an install tomorrow morning. I don't care if I get an HR21 as I can't get OTA signals anyway. Now I just need to get an HD TV for my bedroom.  :up:


----------



## PrimeRisk

incog-neato said:


> I had one rep tell me (by email) the OTA inputs on the HR20 were turned off recently.


That's simply not true. My OTA was working just snappy fine last night.


----------



## Jim Abbett

PrimeRisk said:


> That's simply not true. My OTA was working just snappy fine last night.


Mine works great too!

The $2.00 rabbit ears that came with the old TV work pretty darn well on the HR10-250 that we moved to the bedroom.


----------



## incog-neato

Seriously? I thought the rep knew what he was talking about. After all, he is a DirecTV employee so he couldn't be wrong. 


PrimeRisk said:


> That's simply not true. My OTA was working just snappy fine last night.


----------



## kkluba

kkluba said:


> I have the 5LNB dish and 2 HR20's scheduled for install next Monday morning. I have specified to only bring the HR20 and called the local install company and they have that on the order. We shall see.. The cost to me is $0 for the two DVR's and dish. I also got D* to throw in the lease fee for one year and HD for 6 months.
> 
> If the installer shows up with HR21's I'll turn him away. Not a chance I'll take the HR21. I've got an antenna with line of sight to the main transmission tower in our area (SF Bay Area) and get about 20 channels with signal strenghts 80 and up. I'm not about to give it up.


Just talked to the local install company about my Monday appointment. No HR20's in stock. I called D* and CANCELLED. I asked about HR20's and was told D* has no idea what inventory the local/regional companies have. I asked about buying from Costco, BB or CC and was told it would be money out of my pocket and it would be leased equipment. Familiar story here in this thread, eh? What a joke.


----------



## thysse

I have tried looking through all of this thread, but it looks like it would take a while. I just talked to someone in retention and the best they would do is upgrade my two hr10-250's for $100 a piece to the HR20. I think it is crap that they do not do this for free, seeing as I have been a paying customer for over 10 years and they come out with channels that I cannot get and then they make me pay for the upgrade!?! I am so mad about this. Is there any possible avenue to get them to upgrade these for no cost?


----------



## robnalex

thysse said:


> I have tried looking through all of this thread, but it looks like it would take a while. I just talked to someone in retention and the best they would do is upgrade my two hr10-250's for $100 a piece to the HR20. I think it is crap that they do not do this for free, seeing as I have been a paying customer for over 10 years and they come out with channels that I cannot get and then they make me pay for the upgrade!?! I am so mad about this. Is there any possible avenue to get them to upgrade these for no cost?


Call back and try again. Ask if they can offset the cost with program credits.


----------



## LlamaLarry

Maybe if you have the Protection Plan your malfunctioning units will be replaced with new (refurbished) HR2* instead of the HR10.


----------



## kkluba

thysse said:


> I have tried looking through all of this thread, but it looks like it would take a while. I just talked to someone in retention and the best they would do is upgrade my two hr10-250's for $100 a piece to the HR20. I think it is crap that they do not do this for free, seeing as I have been a paying customer for over 10 years and they come out with channels that I cannot get and then they make me pay for the upgrade!?! I am so mad about this. Is there any possible avenue to get them to upgrade these for no cost?


There is no guarantee you will ge the HR20 and most likely you will not, free or paid.


----------



## appletj

ebonovic said:


> How about they are offering those people that have spent anywhere from $0 - $1299 and ability to upgrade to an HR20 to get all the HD channels they won't get.
> 
> It is not a conspiracy theory.... "You" (as in the community) said you want a low cost or free upgrade to the HR10-250... but now that it has come... you still want to throw darts. If you are that upset about the 2 year commitment....
> Call and see if you can get it wavied... but then if you can't... well then you know exactly where you stand...
> 
> It doesn't matter if the free up the MPEG2 space now... the MPEG-4 content is on two completely different SATs.... If they think everyone is going to convert in less then 3 months? come on.... that is even a stretch for you.
> 
> If you honestly truely feel... there is going to be another DirecTv / TiVo box... don't do the upgrade... and wait... and wait...
> 
> But when the time comes that you come to the realization that there isn't going to be a box... and have to get the HR20 (or what ever is available, depending on how long you wait)... don't have any remorse about not enjoying the HD content for all that time you are waiting.
> 
> You are not obligated to upgrade, or swap out.
> Only swap out if you want to... it is that simple.


I have been a DTV customer for most of the last 7 years. A little over three years ago I paid $900 for my 10-250 when I got my first HD set. Two years later I went back to cable for one year because the apartment I was living in didn't have a clear view of the bird(s). I was not happy with the SA DVR my cable company leased to me. I found the user interface to be dense (to be kind) and the reliability of the unit to be poor.

When I had an opportunity to go back to DTV in June I negotiated with DTV to get the best deal I could; a new antenna and Free HD for 1 year and a small monthly credit to make up the difference in the internet access charge my cable company offers if you have both Cable TV and Internet access. In order to get the discount I agreedto a one year deal. I turned down a free HR20 because I wasn't sure about the non Tivo interface and didn't want to make a two year commitment.

I have read the numerous negative comments about DTVs new boxes and I will sever my business relationship with DTV in June. The fact is that DTV opted out of their relationship with Tivo to save money. They also decided to offer a sub-par replacement for the original HR10-250. I can't help it if they value their bottom line over their customer base but I don't have to "take it". Color me gone in June DTV.


----------



## madbeachcat

QUOTE=appletj;5769470]
I have read the numerous negative comments about DTVs new boxes and I will sever my business relationship with DTV in June. The fact is that DTV opted out of their relationship with Tivo to save money. They also decided to offer a sub-par replacement for the original HR10-250. I can't help it if they value their bottom line over their customer base but I don't have to "take it". Color me gone in June DTV.[/QUOTE]

Obviously it's your decision and you can do whatever you want to, but you seem to be basing your decision based solely on what others on this forum say, without having any first hand knowledge of the new HR20.

To me, this makes no sense whatsoever. Myself, I would never call something sub-par without at least trying it first. And, if I didn't want to take that extra step, I would just quietly move on.

I have tried both the HR10 and the HR20, and to my mind the HR20's advantages outweigh the things I like about the HR10.

And why shouldn't a company look after it';s bottom line. That's the p[purpose behind it's existence. If you don't think Tivo is looking after it's own best interests first and foremost, you are sadly mistaken.

It does not seem to have adversely affected their customer too badly, so far.


----------



## appletj

madbeachcat said:


> QUOTE=appletj;5769470]
> I have read the numerous negative comments about DTVs new boxes and I will sever my business relationship with DTV in June. The fact is that DTV opted out of their relationship with Tivo to save money. They also decided to offer a sub-par replacement for the original HR10-250. I can't help it if they value their bottom line over their customer base but I don't have to "take it". Color me gone in June DTV.


Obviously it's your decision and you can do whatever you want to, but you seem to be basing your decision based solely on what others on this forum say, without having any first hand knowledge of the new HR20.

To me, this makes no sense whatsoever. Myself, I would never call something sub-par without at least trying it first. And, if I didn't want to take that extra step, I would just quietly move on.

I have tried both the HR10 and the HR20, and to my mind the HR20's advantages outweigh the things I like about the HR10.

And why shouldn't a company look after it';s bottom line. That's the p[purpose behind it's existence. If you don't think Tivo is looking after it's own best interests first and foremost, you are sadly mistaken.

It does not seem to have adversely affected their customer too badly, so far.[/QUOTE]

I understand that the only way I can get a "deal" from D* is to make a two year commitment.  Prior to doing that I looked over some end user reviews on CNet. At lease one reviewer mentioned that there is only one buffer and that when you switch from one receiver to the other receiver the contents of the buffer get dumped. Many other reviewers reported numerous lock ups. Yes, I expect them to look out for their bottom line. But not at the expense of their product.


----------



## kmramos

An update. I finally got the credit for my CC purchase of the HR20 applied to my account. I would urge those who want to take this route to be persistent with the CSRs. If you are, like me, a long time subscriber who is out of the two year commitment you might just get what you want.


----------



## bigpuma

kmramos said:


> An update. I finally got the credit for my CC purchase of the HR20 applied to my account. I would urge those who want to take this route to be persistent with the CSRs. If you are, like me, a long time subscriber who is out of the two year commitment you might just get what you want.


I agree, I am only half way through a 2 year commitment and I got a second HR20 free of charge.


----------



## slydog75

Ok, I'm finally going to look into 'upgrading' to the HR20. What deal should I be looking to get and how do I go about trying to get it?
I currently have the HR10-250 and HD Programming and two standard DirecTivos. I've been a DirecTV customer for 4 years. I'd like to be able to get the HR20 for the best possible price AND keep the HR10-250.


----------



## milominderbinder

appletj said:


> ...Color me gone in June DTV.


If you are canceling 12 months early because you are unhappy why not cancel 18 months early and go now?

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

slydog75 said:


> Ok, I'm finally going to look into 'upgrading' to the HR20. What deal should I be looking to get and how do I go about trying to get it?
> I currently have the HR10-250 and HD Programming and two standard DirecTivos. I've been a DirecTV customer for 4 years. I'd like to be able to get the HR20 for the best possible price AND keep the HR10-250.


From the HD DVR FAQ:

_What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?_
→ Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide ● Installation Forum

_How can I be sure I will get an HR20 instead of an HR21? I want all of my local channels!_
→ How to get an HR20 instead of HR21

- Craig


----------



## madbeachcat

appletj said:


> I understand that the only way I can get a "deal" from D* is to make a two year commitment. Prior to doing that I looked over some end user reviews on CNet. At lease one reviewer mentioned that there is only one buffer and that when you switch from one receiver to the other receiver the contents of the buffer get dumped. Many other reviewers reported numerous lock ups. Yes, I expect them to look out for their bottom line. But not at the expense of their product.


If you want to go, then by all means go and get the service that you want. It's your right to do that and I hope you are happy with whatever you decide to do. My only problem is the slamming of a product, based only on what you have read and not personal experience. They're have been many changes to the HR20 since that CNET reveiw.

If I had made a decision about the HR10 solely by what I read I probably would never have shelled out the money for it.

As far as the 2 year committment goes, I can understand your reluctance. But for me, content is most important, not the equipment. Just lucky that I like the HR20, too.

As far as DLB goes, I do miss that. But, I beleive that DirecTV is going to add that feature soon. But if they don't, I can live with the work arounds availible.

Good Luck in whatever you do.


----------



## slydog75

Hmm.. I wasn't aware of this HR21 floating around without OTA capability. I know my Circuit City has a few HR20s in stock right now. If I definetely want OTA would it be in my best interest to just go by one of those? And how does that work with installation? As I need the new 5 LNB dish (but all my wiring should be fine AFAIK).


----------



## newsposter

if you def want ota and aren't worried about dickering with prices yes go get it. But you 'may' be able to convince a CSR to give you a credit if you beg enough.


----------



## RS4

appletj said:


> I have been a DTV customer for most of the last 7 years. A little over three years ago I paid $900 for my 10-250 when I got my first HD set. Two years later I went back to cable for one year because the apartment I was living in didn't have a clear view of the bird(s). I was not happy with the SA DVR my cable company leased to me. I found the user interface to be dense (to be kind) and the reliability of the unit to be poor.
> 
> When I had an opportunity to go back to DTV in June I negotiated with DTV to get the best deal I could; a new antenna and Free HD for 1 year and a small monthly credit to make up the difference in the internet access charge my cable company offers if you have both Cable TV and Internet access. In order to get the discount I agreedto a one year deal. I turned down a free HR20 because I wasn't sure about the non Tivo interface and didn't want to make a two year commitment.
> 
> I have read the numerous negative comments about DTVs new boxes and I will sever my business relationship with DTV in June. The fact is that DTV opted out of their relationship with Tivo to save money. They also decided to offer a sub-par replacement for the original HR10-250. I can't help it if they value their bottom line over their customer base but I don't have to "take it". Color me gone in June DTV.


A lot of us are in the same boat as you - feel DTV has come out with an inferior dvr replacement that is not worth struggling with for 2 years - there are too many horror stories of folks not liking the box, and DTV will not let us try out at home first.

The thing that gets me is the HR20 backers always say you're stupid because you're depending on other folks opinion. I've looked at demos, and read enough stuff on the internet to be able to tell that I don't like the box. And of course, it's your money they are throwing around, so the intelligent thing to do is not waste your money.

A lot of us are waiting for the new ownership to take over and then see if any new agreements are announced between DTV and Tivo. I think you should know by June when your contract is up if there will be any kind of future between DTV and Tivo. Don't let the HR20 army browbeat you into doing something you don't want to do. Trust your instincts.


----------



## slydog75

newsposter said:


> if you def want ota and aren't worried about dickering with prices yes go get it. But you 'may' be able to convince a CSR to give you a credit if you beg enough.


If I go that route, do I also get the 5 LNB dish included? And what about installation?


----------



## dtebbe

I justed added a HR21-700 yesterday, and while it is a little clunky after being used to TIvo for so long, I have to say so far so good. Regardless of how you like the DVR, there is an **UNBELIEVEABLE** amount of quality HD programming available with the new MPEG4 channels. Regardless of how much I like Tivo, the enhanced programming choices more than outweigh my Tivo loyalty - at this point anyway. The HR21 is a sweet package too, very nice looking, has USB port in front and two ethernet ports in the rear. It's pretty clear that DirecTv will be in the on-demand video business soon.

I love Tivo, but with about $3500 in HD equipment in my house the programming trumps the DVR software at this point.

BTW, I got the HR21-700 added for $99, and am getting a $10/month credit to my bill for 12 months. DirecTv has the most HD programming now, hands down. If you want to pout over no Tivo, that's fine, but no way I could EVER go back to cable. That bridge was burned back in 1995, and cable can KMA forever.

DT


----------



## kmramos

slydog75 said:


> Ok, I'm finally going to look into 'upgrading' to the HR20. What deal should I be looking to get and how do I go about trying to get it?
> I currently have the HR10-250 and HD Programming and two standard DirecTivos. I've been a DirecTV customer for 4 years. I'd like to be able to get the HR20 for the best possible price AND keep the HR10-250.


Go for it. This is exactly what I did (keep the HR10 and add the HR20). I did have to buy the HR20 as OTA was important to me, but did finally manage to get a credit for it. So, out of pocket cost (not counting installation aggravation) was $0.

As a side not, I love Tivo and was VERY unhappy at the prospect of a non-Tivo based DVR. However, I can honestly say that the HR20 is not bad at all, and there are a couple things about it that I actually like better.

If you have OTA now, you should really get an HR20. I read a million threads about how the PQ of the HD locals is just the same (or better!) than OTA, but now that I have both on the same TV I can tell you that this is patently false. There is a marked difference on my Fujitsu plasma.


----------



## tucsonbill

appletj said:


> .... I can't help it if they value their bottom line over their customer base but I don't have to "take it". Color me gone in June DTV.


Bye. You don't have much of an understanding of business, do you? The bottom line is the bottom line. You think your are D*'s "customer base". You're not. They absolutely respond to what affects the bottom line. They don't think that you do. Neither do I. I know you love Tivo. D* isn't Tivo.


----------



## slydog75

kmramos said:


> Go for it. This is exactly what I did (keep the HR10 and add the HR20). I did have to buy the HR20 as OTA was important to me, but did finally manage to get a credit for it. So, out of pocket cost (not counting installation aggravation) was $0.
> 
> As a side not, I love Tivo and was VERY unhappy at the prospect of a non-Tivo based DVR. However, I can honestly say that the HR20 is not bad at all, and there are a couple things about it that I actually like better.
> 
> If you have OTA now, you should really get an HR20. I read a million threads about how the PQ of the HD locals is just the same (or better!) than OTA, but now that I have both on the same TV I can tell you that this is patently false. There is a marked difference on my Fujitsu plasma.


Cool, thanks, that's probably what I'm going to do. However, I'm still trying to figure this out: If I go to Circuit City and buy an HR20 do I also get a 5LNB dish included with it or do I need to buy that seperate? Also, how do I get it installed (do I need to or can I do it myself? I've done it before with the 2LNB dish)?


----------



## ebonovic

slydog75 said:


> Cool, thanks, that's probably what I'm going to do. However, I'm still trying to figure this out: If I go to Circuit City and buy an HR20 do I also get a 5LNB dish included with it or do I need to buy that seperate? Also, how do I get it installed (do I need to or can I do it myself? I've done it before with the 2LNB dish)?


Usually not... unless they are running a special that includes installation.
You would need to get the dish seperately... the either install it yourself, or pay someone to install it.


----------



## RS4

ebonovic said:


> Usually not... unless they are running a special that includes installation.
> You would need to get the dish seperately... the either install it yourself, or pay someone to install it.


I'm confused - why are you telling this guy to buy a dish and pay for it to be installed when this thread is full of people who have gotten it for and free and had it installed for free? Why aren't you telling him to call DirecTV and find out what his options are?

Slydog, I would not buy the dish or pay for installation without first checking with DirecTV. Almost everyone else we've read about on this forum are getting the dish for free and DirecTV is installing it for free.

Also, many folks get programming credits from DirecTV to offset the costs of the dish.


----------



## RS4

tucsonbill said:


> Bye. You don't have much of an understanding of business, do you? The bottom line is the bottom line. You think your are D*'s "customer base". You're not. They absolutely respond to what affects the bottom line. They don't think that you do. Neither do I. I know you love Tivo. D* isn't Tivo.


Do you really believe that cr..p? If all this decision about new dvrs was about the bottom line, then DirecTV would have both products, especially since they are paying for licenses into 2011. Why on earth would they alienate a big segment of their customer base when they are having to pay Tivo anyway?

They would probably make even more money by having both products or at least allowing Tivo to offer a subscription and then split the revenues with DirecTV.

This decision by DirecTV has turned out to be a costly mistake because of poor decisions. It's stupid to lose the Tivo brand name when they could be enjoying additional revenue from two products - even if the subscriptions come through Tivo.

No, this decision has been made on as much emotion as it has been made on bottom line economics. It appears the Murdoch wanted total power and NDS blew it - now DirecTV's customers are are suffering the consequences while DirecTV spends all of this time, money, and effort trying to get the new dvrs working.

If the decision were about the bottom line, they could have come out with their own product while also allowing Tivo to compete on some basis and still share the revenue stream.

You guys defend a company that has made some terrible decisions and caused a lot of discontent over nothing and then you browbeat Tivo users because we're being pushed out. As mark says <go figure>!!


----------



## badmonkey

RS4 said:


> ...
> This decision by DirecTV has turned out to be a costly mistake because of poor decisions. It's stupid to lose the Tivo brand name when they could be enjoying additional revenue from two products - even if the subscriptions come through Tivo.
> 
> ...
> 
> You guys defend a company that has made some terrible decisions and caused a lot of discontent over nothing and then you browbeat Tivo users because we're being pushed out. As mark says <go figure>!!


Speaking of cr..p...

How do you figure it was a costly mistake? Many (if not most) people are plenty happy with the new DVRs. In fact, there are many that prefer them over the TiVo interface (myself included). Again, as I mentioned in response to one of your previous unfounded rantings, DirecTV is net ADDING subscribers - not losing them. TiVo users are not running away from DirecTV as you seem to think. They are switching to the new platform - and most are fine with it.

And to your last point - I'm not defending their decisions at all. I'm simply trying to point out that you are not the only person in the world. Some people will have a different feeling than you. I would love to see them keep the TiVo platform available for the sake of choice and competition - as long as they don't take away my HR20... Given the choice, I wouldn't even consider a return to the cartoonish and, at least in the case of the HR10, unreliable and unstable TiVo. On top of that, you're not being pushed out. Nobody is telling you to leave DirecTV. They've provided an enhancement to their service that requires their new equipment. DirecTV would prefer that you stay and in many ways - despite your rantings about them - have tried to make it as painless as possible.

On that last topic, however, I agree with you. They should offer some sort of a trial period. Something at least comparable to what cable offers. I don't have a problem with the two year commitment but a trial period would be nice.


----------



## robnalex

RS4 said:


> I'm confused - why are you telling this guy to buy a dish and pay for it to be installed when this thread is full of people who have gotten it for and free and had it installed for free? Why aren't you telling him to call DirecTV and find out what his options are?
> 
> Slydog, I would not buy the dish or pay for installation without first checking with DirecTV. Almost everyone else we've read about on this forum are getting the dish for free and DirecTV is installing it for free.
> 
> Also, many folks get programming credits from DirecTV to offset the costs of the dish.


Why are you telling this poster that he'll have to pay $480 or less:


RS4 said:


> DirecTV has no trial period of the new dvr, so it will cost you $480 (or less - on a sliding scale) if you don't like it


----------



## bigpuma

RS4 said:


> Do you really believe that cr..p? If all this decision about new dvrs was about the bottom line, then DirecTV would have both products, especially since they are paying for licenses into 2011. Why on earth would they alienate a big segment of their customer base when they are having to pay Tivo anyway?
> 
> They would probably make even more money by having both products or at least allowing Tivo to offer a subscription and then split the revenues with DirecTV.
> 
> This decision by DirecTV has turned out to be a costly mistake because of poor decisions. It's stupid to lose the Tivo brand name when they could be enjoying additional revenue from two products - even if the subscriptions come through Tivo.
> 
> No, this decision has been made on as much emotion as it has been made on bottom line economics. It appears the Murdoch wanted total power and NDS blew it - now DirecTV's customers are are suffering the consequences while DirecTV spends all of this time, money, and effort trying to get the new dvrs working.
> 
> If the decision were about the bottom line, they could have come out with their own product while also allowing Tivo to compete on some basis and still share the revenue stream.
> 
> You guys defend a company that has made some terrible decisions and caused a lot of discontent over nothing and then you browbeat Tivo users because we're being pushed out. As mark says <go figure>!!


I believe it is you who is basing your judgment on emotion and not facts. I would love to see DirecTV have both TiVO and their own DVR. I have had a DirecTiVo since 2002. However I am sure there are reasons that it is cheaper to go with their own DVR. Not only do they save on money they were sending to TiVo but they also reduce the cost of support when they get everyone on the same software. If you ever had to call Tech support at DirecTV for a TiVo you would know that after they tell you to unplug and plug it back in they have to forward you to another department to help you fix it.

If DirecTV really believed they could make more money by offering both platforms they would do it. The problem is in my opinion that only a few people would be willing to pay an extra $5/month for it. The fact is that DirecTV hasn't sold a new TiVo in over a year and yet their churn is extremely low despite all of the people on this board saying they switched due to the lack of TiVo. That tells me their decision was a very good one from a financial perspective.


----------



## newsposter

what is the effect of the NDS extension on directv, if any? Or on us?


----------



## RS4

robnalex said:


> Why are you telling this poster that he'll have to pay $480 or less:


Because that's what he'd have to pay DirecTV if he didn't like the dvr. As has been pointed out many times, DirecTV is now charging $20 a month for each month that you leave early, so if you get the box, don't like it and leave DirecTV, you now owe them $480 minus any time you've worked off the contract.

There was a post on this forum where the poster had been told that he could try it at home by the csr only to find out later that he had to pay the whole fee to leave even though he called to return the box within days. Is that fair? Of course not!! Poor service on top of poor equipment!! I'm surprised people don't bring them up to the Better Business Bureau or the state attorney general for all of the lying they do.


----------



## slydog75

Ok, I was able to get approved to go to Circuit City, buy an HR20, get a $100 credit, and waive the HD fee for 12 months, which basically puts my cost at $80. I'm happy with that. This is with the new 5LNB dish and installation.


----------



## newsposter

sly impressive....i'm sure others would love to hear your script as i heard it's pretty hard to get credits like this.


----------



## ggalindo

We just recently upgraded from the HD-Tivo DVR to the HR21s (or HD21, I can't remember the letters, but it is the 21, no OTA). We live in a large market, where we get most of our locals in HD from the Satellite, didn't want the 20 for OTA. Where I live, it was impossible to receive all but 2 of the HDs OTA, and couldn't get PBS anyway (the only major that isn't included in the DTV HD locals)

I had debated waiting it out to see what they did with Tivo, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought I had better convert sooner rather than wait another 9 months, miss out on the HD locals all of that time, as well as the other HD programming, and then the "mad-rush" when my NFLST is only in MPEG 4. 

I'm hoping within a year, DTV will be back in bed with Tivo with an MPEG4 solution, and will weigh options at that time. I figure if that happens, they will have another "upgrade offer" for former Tivo users and can switch back.

The real question becomes if one can live with DTV without "Tivo". I think the breadth and quality of programming, the value vis-a-vis cable, the NFLST, etc. etc. etc. IMO far outweighs having a Tivo-box connected to cable.


----------



## slydog75

newsposter said:


> sly impressive....i'm sure others would love to hear your script as i heard it's pretty hard to get credits like this.


NOt that others haven't done better, I just kinda winged it, nothing special, but here's a summary;

First I called the normal customer service number (800-531-5000). I told this guy that I had the HR10-250 which I now understood to be obsolete because it can't recieve the new HD channels and I was interested in seeing what kind of deal I could get for upgrading to the H20. He told me it was $299 for the H20 and I said how I wasn't very happy about spending $400 on the HR10-250 only to have it be useless in just over a year and could he cut me a better deal. He said he couldn't but offered to pass me on to retention (exactly what I hoping for).

Once I was on with retention I told her that I knew my 2 year commitment was up in February 08 and I was weighing my options. She offered to knock $100 off of the upgrade. I then stated that I wasn't very happy about my HR10-250 being obsolete after such a short time then she offered to waive my HD programming fee for a year ($120 value). I thought this sounded reasonable and said as much.

But then I brought up the H21 no OTA issue. She at first thought I was wrong and said the only difference between the H20 and H21 was the color (I swear it). I suggested she offer me the same deal on a unit purchased from Circuit City. She didn't want to do it and I just kept pointing out that I need the H20 for OTA. She then put me on hold and came back a few minutes later to verify that in fact the H21 does not do OTA and that, with that in mind, I was approved to purchase an H20 from a retail store and still get the same deal, complete with the 5LNB dish and installation.

Before hanging up I reviewed what we agreed upon and she made a few notes on my account about the $100 credit (had to get a credit since I was buying it from Circuit City) and she said she'd go ahead and give me the 12 months free HD programming now so there was no confusion after I purchased the unit. This whole time, I used a friendly tone and I was very polite and calm and addressed the CSRs by name. If I was persistent and better at persuasion I'm sure I could have knocked it down even more, but I thought it was an ok deal so I accepted it (especially since I still get to keep the HR10-250).


----------



## kmramos

slydog75 said:


> Ok, I was able to get approved to go to Circuit City, buy an HR20, get a $100 credit, and waive the HD fee for 12 months, which basically puts my cost at $80. I'm happy with that. This is with the new 5LNB dish and installation.


Good for you! So, you're still going to keep the HR10 running?


----------



## slydog75

kmramos said:


> Good for you! So, you're still going to keep the HR10 running?


Yep, the HR10 is staying in my theatre (it's really only used for Steelers games which are 99% OTA). The H20 is getting hooked up to my new HDTV in the livingroom (finally got rid of the 12 year old CRT that we had in there).


----------



## tucsonbill

RS4 said:


> Do you really believe that cr..p?


 No. I believe what I said based upon my experience in business and my understanding of the profit motive.


> If all this decision about new dvrs was about the bottom line, then DirecTV would have both products, especially since they are paying for licenses into 2011. Why on earth would they alienate a big segment of their customer base when they are having to pay Tivo anyway?


 Because they are privy to something that you're not -- their cost/benefit analysis of the Tivo relationship.


> They would probably make even more money by having both products or at least allowing Tivo to offer a subscription and then split the revenues with DirecTV.


 Again, I'm sure they've done an analysis of that -- where is yours? Do you have numbers, or just a "probably" hunch?


> This decision by DirecTV has turned out to be a costly mistake because of poor decisions.


 How much did it cost them?


> No, this decision has been made on as much emotion as it has been made on bottom line economics.


 Yeah, unlike the emotion of folks who worship the TiVo brand.


> You guys defend a company that has made some terrible decisions and caused a lot of discontent over nothing and then you browbeat Tivo users because we're being pushed out. As mark says <go figure>!!


 I'm curious why pointing out some basic business concepts is defending any company. Could be we'll find that this was a bad decision, but we will only know based on how D* does business wise going forward. You claim to know the answer now, and I'm telling you that you have no data to support that assertion. Are there folks who are pissed because they're not going to keep their beloved TiVo interface with D* in the future? Sure. Are all "tivo users" as upset as you are about. Hell no.


----------



## SuperRatman

After years of simply reading the posts, I felt compelled to share my recent D* experience, which by the way has lasted several weeks culminating in absolute outrage this weekend. Upon reading the well documented suggestions on how to get what's rightfully due every single HR10-250 owner out there, I decided to make the call to D* to get what's mine.

Well, needless to say, my confidence in D* was rattled to the bone this past weekend after being told the following in this order:

1) Ring...you qualify for the legacy swap! Yippee, it's going to cost you S&H only. Awesome news, right. I asked on the spot what it would cost me to get an additional HD DVR receiver and this confused the person. They then told me in order to do so, they would charge me $299. I countered with $199 and programming credits. They said no, I said I need to think about it. Click.

2) Ring...you qualify for the legacy swap, but we're charging you $199+S&H that's all we can do. Wait a minute, take a look at my customer record and you'll see that the offer was S&H only for the first box. They argued and said the case records reflect that you wanted all (4) new receivers. I said no, but I did want to know what you'd charge an existing D* customer for a second HD DVR. That's when they said I should expect to pay full price for that box, not the $299 price. I said no way and asked to speak to retention. I was told I could speak with this person's supervisor...disconnected upon transfer (go figure). Click.

3) Ring...you qualify for nothing -- "these boxes are like computers and you should expect to pay and replace frequently like you would with your home computer." OMG -- are you kidding! This jackass proceeded to tell me that I have to pay for everything again and added the fact that it's very expensive to operate the business and the cost is justified for new and existing customers. Holey crap, if this is the case, D* is either going out of business or everyone is grabbing their ankles for their service. I said get me to retention, the responded with no one is in retention to take my call. This person couldn't help me. Click.

All this was experienced in 2 hours, 3 separate phone calls on Saturday evening. Completely discouraged at this point, I let it rest and waited until tonight.

4) Ring...you qualify for $199+S&H. I explained my plight to 2 CSRs. Hearing the same noise, I said that is it, get me to retention and I'm canceling now. Keep in mind, every time I asked for retention, I was transferred to someone NOT in retention. Here's how it went. "Hi, I'm your goddess of D* love and I'm going to give you what you deserve. You are getting an HR20-700 w/OTA, new dish, installation, cabling, multi switch, and because of your trouble, here's 12-mo $10 programming credit, 6-mo HD programming credit, no 2-year commitment. Oh, and that S&H charge -- GONE." Now of course, I'm in complete rapture and my recollection is extremely skewed, but the end result is the same. I actually made money on this deal with a final credit of at least 1 ppv and lower bill equally roughly $180 to offset the normal $1200 annual donation I make to the company.

Moral of the story, be persistent and don't give up. You're goddess (or god) is out there. Keep on trying.

I'll be back to confirm with you that my installation goes as planned. We'll know by this weekend.

Cheers!


----------



## slydog75

SuperRatman said:


> 4) Ring...you qualify for $199+S&H. I explained my plight to 2 CSRs. Hearing the same noise, I said that is it, get me to retention and I'm canceling now. Keep in mind, every time I asked for retention, I was transferred to someone NOT in retention. Here's how it went. "Hi, I'm your goddess of D* love and I'm going to give you what you deserve. You are getting an HR20-700 w/OTA, new dish, installation, cabling, multi switch, and because of your trouble, here's 12-mo $10 programming credit, 6-mo HD programming credit, no 2-year commitment. Oh, and that S&H charge -- GONE." Now of course, I'm in complete rapture and my recollection is extremely skewed, but the end result is the same. I actually made money on this deal with a final credit of at least 1 ppv and lower bill equally roughly $180 to offset the normal $1200 annual donation I make to the company.
> 
> Moral of the story, be persistent and don't give up. You're goddess (or god) is out there. Keep on trying.
> 
> I'll be back to confirm with you that my installation goes as planned. We'll know by this weekend.
> 
> Cheers!


Just be sure you are getting the H20 not the H21 if OTA is a concern for you. From what I've been reading it sounds that DirecTV is only sending out the H21 now.


----------



## milominderbinder

slydog75 said:


> If I go that route, do I also get the 5 LNB dish included? And what about installation?


Call DIRECTV today and negotiate your best price. Be aware that for most $199 is the best that DIRECTV will do now. Yes, you should be able to still get free installation and the 5 LNB dish for free. But DIRECTV has 85 HD channels now and are swamped with orders. Here are ideas.

From the HD DVR FAQ:

_What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?_
→ Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide

*Use the Ordering Tips links to verify your order online now!*

Follow the Installation Guide and you can avoid an endless number of problems that relate back to bad installations.

You can get an HR20 instead of an HR21 through DIRECTV although retail purchase is so much easier.
→ How to get an HR20 instead of HR21

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

dtebbe said:


> I justed added a HR21-700 yesterday, and while it is a little clunky after being used to TiVo for so long, I have to say so far so good. Regardless of how you like the DVR, there is an **UNBELIEVABLE** amount of quality HD programming available with the new MPEG4 channels. Regardless of how much I like TiVo, the enhanced programming choices more than outweigh my TiVo loyalty - at this point anyway. The HR21 is a sweet package too, very nice looking, has USB port in front and two ethernet ports in the rear. It's pretty clear that DirecTv will be in the on-demand video business soon.
> 
> I love Tivo, but with about $3500 in HD equipment in my house the programming trumps the DVR software at this point.
> 
> BTW, I got the HR21-700 added for $99, and am getting a $10/month credit to my bill for 12 months. DirecTv has the most HD programming now, hands down. If you want to pout over no Tivo, that's fine, but no way I could EVER go back to cable. That bridge was burned back in 1995, and cable can KMA forever.
> 
> DT


DT,

Congratulations. Many do not get an offer even close to that.

Two and a half months after they launched the MPEG4 HD we are still just blown away by the difference in MPEG4 vs. MPEG2 HD. There is so much great HD to record that we went to a second HD DVR. Even with 100 hours of HD storage, we end up being very selective about what we watch and delete many programs without watching them. There is just too much great HD every day!

They are going to 150 HD channels next year. Part of me wants to say, "STOP NOW!" I need more sleep!

I honestly did not think we would use DIRECTV On Demand. Wow was I wrong. It has been in beta test on the HR20's since last summer and will come to the HR21 next. They are tweaking the search routines and now allow a "text message" cell phone like input option. Press 2 once to get "A", press 2 twice to get "B", triple tap for "C". So much faster than arrowing around that weird keyboard matrix on screen.

Every week they add DoD channels and content. Even with only a couple thousand titles so far, "Triple Tap" was a welcome solution.

Since June, DIRECTV has released a new beta "CE" every single week. They have made huge changes based on user input. For instance , they are just now testing making PAUSE work all of the time. In particular making PAUSE work when you press PREV to go back to a recording.

The PAUSE fix will give us a viable workaround for DLB.

One other thing that is coming that you may really like is Remote Booking. Not only can I program my HD DVR from work, I can use the recommendations just like my old TiVo Suggestions.

Here are a couple of links that may help you from the HD DVR FAQ:

_Is there an easy way to get started?_
→ 5-Minute Quick Start ● 144 Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks

_What can help me transition from TiVo? How do I get Suggestions?_
→ TiVo Users Survival Guide ● Better Suggestions than TiVo!

- Craig


----------



## zzzzdoc

slydog75 said:


> Just be sure you are getting the H20 not the H21 if OTA is a concern for you. From what I've been reading it sounds that DirecTV is only sending out the H21 now.


How can you ensure getting an HR20? I have 4 of them in hand I purchased locally. I had forgotten about calling DTV for an upgrade deal for my two HR10-250s.

I'd like to call them and get 4 HR20s for a deep discount, but this does me no good if they send me HR21s. And I don't think they'll take $500 off my monthly fees to discount the 4 boxes.


----------



## duanej

I called yesterday and got 2 HR20/21 (whatever they send) for $199 for the pair. Seemed like and OK deal to me.


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> DT,
> 
> Congratulations. Many do not get an offer even close to that.
> 
> Two and a half months after they launched the MPEG4 HD we are still just blown away by the difference in MPEG4 vs. MPEG2 HD. There is so much great HD to record that we went to a second HD DVR. Even with 100 hours of HD storage, we end up being very selective about what we watch and delete many programs without watching them. There is just too much great HD every day!
> 
> They are going to 150 HD channels next year. Part of me wants to say, "STOP NOW!" I need more sleep!
> 
> I honestly did not think we would use DIRECTV On Demand. Wow was I wrong. It has been in beta test on the HR20's since last summer and will come to the HR21 next. They are tweaking the search routines and now allow a "text message" cell phone like input option. Press 2 once to get "A", press 2 twice to get "B", triple tap for "C". So much faster than arrowing around that weird keyboard matrix on screen.
> 
> Every week they add DoD channels and content. Even with only a couple thousand titles so far, "Triple Tap" was a welcome solution.
> 
> Since June, DIRECTV has released a new beta "CE" every single week. They have made huge changes based on user input. For instance , they are just now testing making PAUSE work all of the time. In particular making PAUSE work when you press PREV to go back to a recording.
> 
> The PAUSE fix will give us a viable workaround for DLB.
> 
> One other thing that is coming that you may really like is Remote Booking. Not only can I program my HD DVR from work, I can use the recommendations just like my old TiVo Suggestions.
> 
> Here are a couple of links that may help you from the HD DVR FAQ:
> 
> _Is there an easy way to get started?_
> → 5-Minute Quick Start ● 144 Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks
> 
> _What can help me transition from TiVo? How do I get Suggestions?_
> → TiVo Users Survival Guide ● Better Suggestions than TiVo!
> 
> - Craig


For someone who claims to not be working for DirecTV, you do an incredible amount of marketing. You must be the ace number one fan of all time!!!


----------



## jrredho

RS4 said:


> For someone who claims to not be working for DirecTV, you do an incredible amount of marketing.


Okay, if milominderbinder is, in fact, a DirecTV employee, I have a question for him: I ordered the upgrade, and followed as much of the gameplan on dbstalk that is referenced in this thread as I could. The problem: My installer did not call back, and they did not show up with an HR20.

Even though I mentioned when they arrived at my house that I needed an OTA tuner on any box they gave me, they went through the process of installing the upgraded dish, then walked into my home with an HR21. Personally, I think that the installers are clueless about all of this, and I'm not trying to insult anyone when I say that; it's not something that I'd expect them to be savvy about.

Anyway, I live in the Albuquerque area, and here we currently can only get one channel via the DirecTV high-def locals. So, I refused the new receiver, and kept my HR10-250.

Naturally I want to migrate, but I need some suggestions about just how to do that. So, milominderbinder, can you offer any?

Many thanks...

cheers,
john


----------



## FlopShot

I received my automated "you get the free upgrade to HR20/21" call last night. I called them back today, and they offered me the free swap with no S&H charge, including dish and multiswitch. I asked if I can keep my HR10-250 and they said no. I complained that I owned the box, so asked what programming credits can they give me to offset my property loss. I was offered $10 credit for 3 months, free Showtime for 3 months, and free HD for 6 months. I accepted the offer since the HR10 is a dead product within 12 months anyway. I then asked if they are also replacing my SD-DTivo (HDVR2) and they said no. I'll probably call back to see if I can get a second HR20/21 for $99 + 6 more months of HD credit.


----------



## petroit

I called about 2 weeks ago, got the same response...you can get the HR20/21free if you give up your HR10. After some haggling and complaining about having to turn in a piece of equipment I own and about being a subscriber since 1997, I got the $199 offer and they credited another $100...so...$99, including new dish and install, and I get to keep my HR10. Install is scheduled for this Thursday, 12/13. Hopefully the interface on the new box is easy to use.


----------



## bigpuma

FlopShot said:


> I received my automated "you get the free upgrade to HR20/21" call last night. I called them back today, and they offered me the free swap with no S&H charge, including dish and multiswitch. I asked if I can keep my HR10-250 and they said no. I complained that I owned the box, so asked what programming credits can they give me to offset my property loss. I was offered $10 credit for 3 months, free Showtime for 3 months, and free HD for 6 months. I accepted the offer since the HR10 is a dead product within 12 months anyway. I then asked if they are also replacing my SD-DTivo (HDVR2) and they said no. I'll probably call back to see if I can get a second HR20/21 for $99 + 6 more months of HD credit.


FYI: I have now upgraded my HR10 to an HR20 twice and each time they said it was a swap and each time the installer left without my HR10. I still use it for SD on my office TV.


----------



## milominderbinder

jrredho said:


> Okay, if milominderbinder is, in fact, a DirecTV employee, I have a question for him: I ordered the upgrade, and followed as much of the gameplan on dbstalk that is referenced in this thread as I could. The problem: My installer did not call back, and they did not show up with an HR20...


I do not work for DIRECTV or even own stock but I will try to help you. I do not know of anyone on this forum who is employed by DIRECTV or TiVo.

Little of this info comes from me. These are just tips accumulated from this site and others.

You can get an HR20 instead of an HR21 through DIRECTV although retail purchase is so much easier.
→ How to get an HR20 instead of HR21

If they try to install the wrong box refuse to sign. Call DIRECTV while they are there. Don't sign unless you are satisfied with your new 2 year contract.

Many call DIRECTV ahead of time about buying an HR20 from a local retailer and get their credits set up first. Then go buy the HR20 and have DIRECTV install it and the dish for free.

- Craig


----------



## FlopShot

bigpuma said:


> FYI: I have now upgraded my HR10 to an HR20 twice and each time they said it was a swap and each time the installer left without my HR10. I still use it for SD on my office TV.


Well, since you live in Morgan Hill, and I live in Gilroy, they will probably send the same installation company for my swap. And my friend in Monterey told me the same thing, that his installer said "I'm supposed to take the HR10, but I never do if the customer wants to keep it." So I'll probably just roll the dice and see what happens when the installer shows up.


----------



## jrredho

milominderbinder said:


> If they try to install the wrong box refuse to sign. Call DIRECTV while they are there. Don't sign unless you are satisfied with your new 2 year contract.
> 
> Many call DIRECTV ahead of time about buying an HR20 from a local retailer and get their credits set up first. Then go buy the HR20 and have DIRECTV install it and the dish for free.


Hey Craig,

Thanks for getting back to me with your suggestions. I think a quick followup may be in order.

I did call DirecTV first, and, after telling them of my constraints, they did not offer me the option that you cite above. In fact, later, while I had the installer standing by me, I called the DirecTV CS folks again, and again they were zero help.

So, I refused to sign the new lease agreement; this is despite the urging of the installer, who told me that it was a "formality," and that "nothing is set in stone" by signing the agreement.

A day later, possibly after DirecTV learned that I had not signed the agreement, a new CSR gave me the option of buying my own HR20 locally (I still haven't received mine; I ordered it off the web to save $$), and, in lieu of cash credits, gave programming credits that would bring me to total commitment of $100 for the whole deal. Not perfect, but good enough for me.

Anyway, thanks again for your help!

cheers,
john


----------



## boody

Has anyone had any luck with this scenario:

I already have 2 HR20's on account. Going to add a recently purchased HR10, then call later: what kind of (best) offer should I expect?

I know a friend had 2 HR20's and an HR10 and the HR10 died and they sent out a replacement HR20 free, but the HR10 was active for 2yrs. Does the length of time a server is active make a difference in the replacement offer?

Also, do the offers for replacing a dead box differ from a live box replacement?


----------



## technojunkie

I emailed customer service a few days ago explaining that I wanted to know how me as a long time HD DTV customer could receive all the new channels. They emailed me back and asked me to call in with a pin number. I spoke to a very nice lady who told me theat based on my history I could receive a replacement for my HR10-250. Unfortunately, she could not guarantee that they would ship me an HR20. I explained that OTA HD was important to me. She suggested that I find one at a retailer and that they would credit my account for the unit. So I went to a number of stores until I finally found one. Bought it, called them back, and was promptly given the credit for the unit. Now the only issue is trying to get an install of the new dish before Christmas.

In any event, there are ways to get the free unit. Do not believe all the other talk that it is not possible. It all depends on how well they value you as a customer. Like they say "Ask and you shall receive!"


----------



## Phod

I wanted to upgrade my DTV HD Tivo to the new MPEG-4 DVR. Had to call three times and eventually ask for customer retention but I ended up getting it for free and about $300 in programming credits.

If you're persistent, it'll pay off. But you'll definitely be close to losing your mind before you get there.


----------



## boody

It did pay off, I called (Thurs) and my first offer was $299. I said I wanted to speak with retention, mentioned how ATT was offering free HD DVRs and I wanted to leave, the offered 1 free HR20 and an installer is coming (though that wasn't necessary) Sun.


----------



## milominderbinder

boody said:


> It did pay off, I called (Thurs) and my first offer was $299. I said I wanted to speak with retention, mentioned how ATT was offering free HD DVRs and I wanted to leave, the offered 1 free HR20 and an installer is coming (though that wasn't necessary) Sun.


Good job!

You are on step 5 of the Ordering Tips. Make sure you do the verification.

From the HD DVR FAQ:

_What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?_
→ Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide

Follow the Installation Guide and you can avoid an endless number of problems that relate back to bad installations.

- Craig


----------



## drvcrash

is there a way to see when your commitment is up on the website?


----------



## newsposter

drvcrash said:


> is there a way to see when your commitment is up on the website?


that's like asking for an mpeg4 tivo! I do wish they put it on the website though but they wont. Or our bills. They are scared!


----------



## drvcrash

So i guess the only way is to call up and ask?


----------



## Marco

Did I do OK?

Moving to new house ... got the new 5 LNB dish, multiswitch, etc.
I have one HR10-250 and two SD DTiVos now ... paid $99 for the first HD DVR, $199 for the second.

I may keep one of the SD boxes connected.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

nothing to brag about 

As long as you're happy, what else is left?


----------



## Marco

Jebberwocky! said:


> nothing to brag about
> 
> As long as you're happy, what else is left?


well obviously I'd be happier paying $0; the question is whether that's impossible


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Marco said:


> well obviously I'd be happier paying $0; the question is whether that's impossible


I don't think it's impossible but definitely harder to do than it was.

There are so many variables like length of time a customer, payment history, average monthly bill amoung others.

I would keep trying until you get to a point where you are happy.


----------



## Sunnyvale_John

it took 5 sales reps and support people to figure out who I needed to talk to. 3 different reps said I should be able to receive the 47 new HD channels with my existing hardware!! 
DTV does have a tiny disclaimer on their website saying your $1000 obsolete old stuff won't work and you need new hardware. Too bad it is in an off color font you won't see!

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4380112

I finally got a similar deal on an HR-20. Unfortunately, 'DirectTV upgrades' get screwed and are sent to the back of the line for installation dates. Happy Holidays to new customers only. January 9th is the 'earliest' they have. I called the arses at Ironwood Communications who are the installers asking to be put on a cancellation list and the woman almost laughed at me. She said they aren't allowing people to be put on backup lists. Makes me almost want to go to Dish!!

Oh well... soon I will have 70 HD channels!


----------



## Ratdog43

I just called DTV and scheduled a swap of a HR21 for my HR10-250. Are they really going to ask for my unit? I have heard conflicting stories. Could I grab one of my regular Tivo boxes and hope they can't tell that it is not the HD unit? I could play dumb...the installer probably doesn't care what he sends back to DTV. Also what's the difference between the HR20 & HR21? The 21 is newer and should be better...right?


----------



## bigpuma

Ratdog43 said:


> I just called DTV and scheduled a swap of a HR21 for my H10-250. Are they really going to ask for my unit? I have heard conflicting stories. Could I grab one of my regular Tivo boxes and hope they can't tell that it is not the HD unit? I could play dumb...the installer probably doesn't care what he sends back to DTV. Also what's the difference between the HR20 & HR21? The 21 is newer and should be better...right?


I had an HR21 installed on the 9th of December. It was supposed to be a swap but the installer never asked for my HR10. My HR10 has now been "swapped" twice.


----------



## bpratt

> The 21 is newer and should be better...right?


The HR21 does not have an OTA connection, the HR20 does.


----------



## RS4

Ratdog43 said:


> I just called DTV and scheduled a swap of a HR21 for my HR10-250. Are they really going to ask for my unit? I have heard conflicting stories. Could I grab one of my regular Tivo boxes and hope they can't tell that it is not the HD unit? I could play dumb...the installer probably doesn't care what he sends back to DTV. Also what's the difference between the HR20 & HR21? The 21 is newer and should be better...right?


The difference is 1 Sorry - couldn't resist

Actually, the major difference is that the HR21 has no over-the-air antenna support, so you would not be able to see your local channels using a roof or inside antenna.


----------



## markb

I called up DirecTV on Sunday to get back UHD and HDNET Movies. The CSR was totally clueless. She told me I needed new equipment to get those channels, but that I could get upgraded for free. So I played dumb, and she transfered me to another department, which setup the installation.

They've already charge my account $322.18, but supposedly there will be a credit for that amount once the receiver is installed. Also, they said I could keep my HR10. My account shows an item that says "No Annual Commitment - Charge $0.00"

The installation is schedule for Thursday morning. Keeping my fingers crossed that everything goes as expected.


----------



## markb

A $299 credit just showed up on my account: "Reverse Cancel Fee - HD Legacy Swap Crd". That just leaves me paying the tax, which wasn't clear when we made the deal on the phone, but I'm not going to worry about that.

The installation appointment is still scheduled for tomorrow morning.


----------



## kkluba

markb said:


> A $299 credit just showed up on my account: "Reverse Cancel Fee - HD Legacy Swap Crd". That just leaves me paying the tax, which wasn't clear when we made the deal on the phone, but I'm not going to worry about that.
> 
> The installation appointment is still scheduled for tomorrow morning.


MarkB - How did you get D* to let you buy your own box and then credit you? I have asked for that several times and always been told they wouldn't pay for it.

As it stands now D* has offered me two HD DVR's and a 5LNB installed for free but I have turned the installers away 3 times as they have always had the HR21 which I don't want. If I could get D* to credit my account I'd go shopping for HR20's.


----------



## markb

kkluba said:


> MarkB - How did you get D* to let you buy your own box and then credit you? I have asked for that several times and always been told they wouldn't pay for it.
> 
> As it stands now D* has offered me two HD DVR's and a 5LNB installed for free but I have turned the installers away 3 times as they have always had the HR21 which I don't want. If I could get D* to credit my account I'd go shopping for HR20's.


They're not letting me buy my own box. The installer is bringing the box. DirecTV charged my account $299 + $23.18 tax, and then the credited me $299. (See my other post, just before the one you quoted.)

I'm not worried about whether I get an HR20 or an HR21, since my OTA reception is spotty, anyway, and DirecTV carries HD locals for my market. Besides that, I'm keeping my HR10, so everything that I could get over the air, I'm still getting.


----------



## dswallow

markb said:


> I'm not worried about whether I get an HR20 or an HR21, since my OTA reception is spotty, anyway, and DirecTV carries HD locals for my market. Besides that, I'm keeping my HR10, so everything that I could get over the air, I'm still getting.


Unfortunately DirecTV's definition of "HD locals" pretty much excludes all but the 4 major network's primary broadcast channel. No subchannels. No networks like CW or MyNetworkTV or even PBS in most markets.


----------



## badmonkey

dswallow said:


> Unfortunately DirecTV's definition of "HD locals" pretty much excludes all but the 4 major network's primary broadcast channel. No subchannels. No networks like CW or MyNetworkTV or even PBS in most markets.


The PBS part appears to be changing...

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=113128


----------



## markb

Just an update. The new dish and receiver is installed. The installer brought an HR20, even though I made no special request. So far so good. It's not a Tivo, but it's not bad. I think the thing I will miss most about the Tivo is the peanut remote. I have yet to find any other remote with a reasonable button layout.

I wasn't terribly impressed with the installer (from Ironwood). He arrived at 1, an hour after my appointment window, though someone did call me at 10:30 to tell me the installer would be late. He then took two hours to hook everything up, even though he didn't run any cables at all.


----------



## cmassa

My own update/experience:

My install went very well. 2 installers came in the first 20 minutes of the interval they gave me. They replaced the dish and multiswitch and then the receiver in about 20-30 minutes. They knew what they were doing. (A previous install of a dish was done by an idiot - not me by the way  ) The longest part for them was waiting on the phone for a CSR to activate the receiver because their automated system was down. I tried to get an HR-20 but got an HR-21. Oh well, I at least have waivers and get the LA networks in HD. It did take D* 2-3 weeks to finally credit my account which I don't totally agree with. They charged my credit card for the receiver and then credit my account, not the card. I guess it is a wash in the end. 

I don't really like the D* remote and use a Harmony 880 which works well. I need to move the colored buttons to the main screen though. I have gotten use to the programming. I think the D* programming requires more button pushes to navigate the menus and accept changes than my Tivo, but I am getting used to it. 

BTW, I moved my HR10-250 to my computer monitor (Dell 2407) connected by component cables and it works great. I can watch it full screen HD or PIP while working on the computer. Audio goes through the computer.


----------



## newsposter

markb said:


> Just an update. The new dish and receiver is installed. The installer brought an HR20, even though I made no special request. So far so good. It's not a Tivo, but it's not bad. I think the thing I will miss most about the Tivo is the peanut remote. I have yet to find any other remote with a reasonable button layout.
> 
> I wasn't terribly impressed with the installer (from Ironwood). He arrived at 1, an hour after my appointment window, though someone did call me at 10:30 to tell me the installer would be late. He then took two hours to hook everything up, even though he didn't run any cables at all.


thats probably one of the best install stories out there. I pretty much mean it. Most people dont get calls about delays and something usually goes wrong


----------



## snoots

I swapped out my living room HDTivo with an HR20 in October and had to wrangle with retention to get it for free. However the guy I spoke to promised me a 2nd one free if I liked the 1st one ok since I told them I was upset about losing TIVO. I called Thursday around 6 central time becasue I purchased an LCD HDTV for my bedroom and wanted the extra HD content there as well as on my primary tv. The CSR looked at my account and said no problem you were promised another one but I can't extend that much credit so was transferred to retention. After a brief wait the retention rep set me up with my 2nd one for free. It shows as out on the fedx truck for delivery today !! I was amazed at how quickly this was handled. I am keeping my 2nd HDTIVO running to cover my important season passes as the hr20 so far has been spotty on 1st run recordings and I want to pull mpgs I record from the TIVO which the new box won't do yet. I am hoping for future hacks/upgrades but realize that might not happen. Anyway I wanted to share the positive outcome since some of my posts have been somewhat negative. I still prefer the TIVO interface and reliability but the content is ultimatly more important to me.


----------



## alaskahill

bigpuma said:


> I had an HR21 installed on the 9th of December. It was supposed to be a swap but the installer never asked for my HR10. My HR10 has now been "swapped" twice.


Same here... so it is very hard for me to complain. I am debating whether I can get it done for a third time on my 15 inch SD TV in the Kitchen


----------



## newsposter

snoots said:


> It shows as out on the fedx truck for delivery today !! I was amazed at how quickly this was handled. .


i'm surprised you got one fedexed to you. usually they only do that on replacements on the repair plan from what i've read on here. Never an outright 'buy' from them


----------



## falconerz

I have a question about the new mpeg4 codecs that Directv is using on the new HD channels. Won't that be true 1080p broadcasting? I ask because my 9 year old Mitsubishi HDTV is crashing and I will be buying a new HDTV and have to decide between a 1080i at a great price or a 1080p for a lot more money. One of the arguments against 1080p has been that there is no true 1080p broadcasts. Isn't that what the mpeg4 is?


----------



## Paul E

I don't know if the mpeg4 format may broadcast in 1080p, but according to the user manual for the hr21 dvr, it outputs in 1080i and lower resolutions. No 1080p option is listed.

www.directv.com/learn/pdf/System_Manuals/DIRECTV/HR21_web_manual.pdf

page 94.


----------



## jbs01

newsposter said:


> i'm surprised you got one fedexed to you. usually they only do that on replacements on the repair plan from what i've read on here. Never an outright 'buy' from them


Just happened to me too. FEDEX should deliver it tomorrow. I'd bit the bullet back in October, got the HR20-100, 5 LNB dish, Zinwell MS all for $199 zeroed out with credits. So, when I wanted a second HR20 for the kitchen, I sent the email folks have referenced and received a reply that I qualified for a "discounted upgrade." I called and after mentioning the email, the initial CSR passed me to "technical assistance" who offered up one for free other than shipping. When I insisted that I needed the HR20 vice HR21 for OTA HD, he passed me to retention after having entered my order into the system. The rentention CSR could care less that I needed OTA HD DVR capability, and said the technical CSR shouldn't have been able to offer the unit up for free. Geez, what's up with these CSRs? His advice was that I just send it back if it's not the HR20.

Fortunately, I'd ordered an HR20-700 from CC a few weeks ago when they still had them in stock. It's unopened wrapped under the Christmas tree waiting for Christmas morning. Depending on what FEDEX drops on the steps tomorrow, I might be able to just send it back to CC. I need to figure out how to do a swap so I can keep the 700 though if Directv sent an HR21.


----------



## milominderbinder

Now with 87 HD channels instead of 9 and Christmas time, the backlog is dangerously long: 3 to 6 weeks depending on area. At 7 to 8 weeks backlog they stop taking orders and go to a waitlist instead.

Still, do your best with the HD DVR FAQ's:

_What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?
_→ Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide

The current $20 a month discount for new customers is hard to beat. See if they will treat you as good as a new customer. Comcast's Triple play claims more HD channels and will give you free HD DVRs.

- Craig


----------



## snoots

We had a blizzard and the FedX truck did not show on Saturday though it showed out on the truck for delivery. Just arrived, got HR20-700. My other one was a -100. Hooking up now but since I have OTA I am happy I didn't get an HR21. Did notice it has a "refurbished" sticker on the case top for a security sticker. Hope it works ok. Activated and working ok other than i don't see HDNET which is working on my other box so I need to call back and have them fix that.


----------



## denary

sent email last week - called today - install set for this Sat - $20


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> Now with 87 HD channels instead of 9 and Christmas time, the backlog is dangerously long: 3 to 6 weeks depending on area. At 7 to 8 weeks backlog they stop taking orders and go to a waitlist instead.
> ...
> - Craig


Oh gosh, oh gosh ... what are we to do?


----------



## milominderbinder

RS4 said:


> Oh gosh, oh gosh ... what are we to do?


They can only try to keep the avalanche of TiVo upgrades as limited as possible. Try to spread them out over the next 24 months as much as possible.

Still the LA HD locals, MLB EI, and NFL ST subs have to upgrade ASAP. So delay the others if possible. This will be the Christmas of HD so that may be hard to do.

The installers have told us that they are doing 3 installs a day now instead of 2. They are working 7-12's (seven days a week, 12 hour days). Many of the installers report getting only a couple days off since September 26th.

The challenge over the next few weeks will be to try to keep the backlogs from becoming wait lists like last winter.

We'll see.

- Craig


----------



## fasTLane

RS4 said:


> Oh gosh, oh gosh ... what are we to do?


LOL


----------



## RS4

milominderbinder said:


> They can only try to keep the avalanche of TiVo upgrades as limited as possible. Try to spread them out over the next 24 months as much as possible.
> 
> Still the LA HD locals, MLB EI, and NFL ST subs have to upgrade ASAP. So delay the others if possible. This will be the Christmas of HD so that may be hard to do.
> 
> *The installers have told us* that they are doing 3 installs a day now instead of 2. They are working 7-12's (seven days a week, 12 hour days). Many of the installers report getting only a couple days off since September 26th.
> 
> The challenge over the next few weeks will be to try to keep the backlogs from becoming wait lists like last winter.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> - Craig


Now come on folks - this guy has spent months and months telling us the sky is falling and even above says 'us' - is that us as in DirecTV us?? What do they say about a rose by any other name...? Oh yeah, we know, he's just bored


----------



## Flogduh

milominderbinder said:


> They can only try to keep the avalanche of TiVo upgrades as limited as possible. Try to spread them out over the next 24 months as much as possible.
> 
> Still the LA HD locals, MLB EI, and NFL ST subs have to upgrade ASAP. So delay the others if possible. This will be the Christmas of HD so that may be hard to do.
> 
> The installers have told us that they are doing 3 installs a day now instead of 2. They are working 7-12's (seven days a week, 12 hour days). Many of the installers report getting only a couple days off since September 26th.
> 
> The challenge over the next few weeks will be to try to keep the backlogs from becoming wait lists like last winter.
> 
> We'll see.
> 
> - Craig


Not in the South Bay Area, or at least in Los Gatos - Got the upgrade free email today, scheduled install for Sunday, the 30th. Could have had them out on Saturday, but I'm throwing a party that day....


----------



## bmartin5150

I spoke with retention last week and was able to negotiate 2 new HD dvr's:
1 for $19.95 S&H
1 for $199.00 
HD access free for 1 year (9.99 x 12 = $119.88)

So about $100 for 2 new boxes - I thought that was decent so iI went with it.

One question - will the installers need a phone line to activate the new boxes? I've been running the HR10-250's without a phone connection and the rooms the boxes will be going in don't have phone jacks.


----------



## cowboys2002

bmartin5150 said:


> I spoke with retention last week and was able to negotiate 2 new HD dvr's:
> 1 for $19.95 S&H
> 1 for $199.00
> HD access free for 1 year (9.99 x 12 = $119.88)
> 
> So about $100 for 2 new boxes - I thought that was decent so iI went with it.
> 
> One question - will the installers need a phone line to activate the new boxes? I've been running the HR10-250's without a phone connection and the rooms the boxes will be going in don't have phone jacks.


These boxes don't need a phone connection.


----------



## bwinter6

cowboys2002 said:


> These boxes don't need a phone connection.


Cowboys2002 - Are you sure about that? I'll be very happy if true as we have 50 foot line cords due to placement issues with HR10's that are about to be upgraded. I just went to Dtv web-site to verify and find this in both HR20 & HR21 User Guides:
"PHONE  Connects the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR to a telephone wall jack. We require a landbased telephone connection to communicate periodically with your DIRECTV Plus HD DVR."

Sure would like to get rid of a little bit of extra cordage.


----------



## JohnB1000

Mine has not been plugged into a phone for over a year and I have not noticed anything. I don't order PPV but I do have NFL ticket.


----------



## ebonovic

bwinter6 said:


> Cowboys2002 - Are you sure about that? I'll be very happy if true as we have 50 foot line cords due to placement issues with HR10's that are about to be upgraded. I just went to Dtv web-site to verify and find this in both HR20 & HR21 User Guides:
> "PHONE  Connects the DIRECTV Plus HD DVR to a telephone wall jack. We require a landbased telephone connection to communicate periodically with your DIRECTV Plus HD DVR."
> 
> Sure would like to get rid of a little bit of extra cordage.


The HR2* series does not need a phone line.

And soon you will still be able to purchase PPV's via remote, with your network connection on the HR2* (aka... even without a phone line, you won't be limited to PPV purchase on the web).

That statement, also exist in the TiVo manual (in it's version).
And is in your TOS with DirecTV (that you will have a land-line connection to the box).


----------



## milominderbinder

bmartin5150 said:


> I spoke with retention last week and was able to negotiate 2 new HD dvr's:
> 1 for $19.95 S&H
> 1 for $199.00
> HD access free for 1 year (9.99 x 12 = $119.88)
> 
> So about $100 for 2 new boxes - I thought that was decent so iI went with it.
> 
> One question - will the installers need a phone line to activate the new boxes? I've been running the HR10-250's without a phone connection and the rooms the boxes will be going in don't have phone jacks.


You are on step 5 of the Ordering Tips. The last few steps are critical. In particular see the link to the contract and Checklist you will be asked to sign.

From the HD DVR FAQ's:

_What do I need to know about HD DVR ordering and installation?
_→ Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide

- Craig


----------



## markb

ebonovic said:


> And soon you will still be able to purchase PPV's via remote, with your network connection on the HR2* (aka... even without a phone line, you won't be limited to PPV purchase on the web).


That's interesting. My HR20 is hooked up via ethernet, but has never been hooked up to a phone line, and I've ordered several PPVs via the remote so far. I'm running the latest national release, I believe. Does that mean it's going to stop letting my order PPVs once it figures out there's no phone line?


----------



## cowboys2002

ebonovic said:


> The HR2* series does not need a phone line.
> 
> And soon you will still be able to purchase PPV's via remote, with your network connection on the HR2* (aka... even without a phone line, you won't be limited to PPV purchase on the web).
> 
> That statement, also exist in the TiVo manual (in it's version).
> And is in your TOS with DirecTV (that you will have a land-line connection to the box).


I don't purchase many ppv's (maybe 5 over a 10 year period), but I normally make my purchase online, so each receiver can watch the event/movie.

I went to hand the installer the phone cord and was told "That isn't needed anymore". Moderately shocked!


----------



## dswallow

markb said:


> That's interesting. My HR20 is hooked up via ethernet, but has never been hooked up to a phone line, and I've ordered several PPVs via the remote so far. I'm running the latest national release, I believe. Does that mean it's going to stop letting my order PPVs once it figures out there's no phone line?


Have you seen these appear on a bill (or online on your account) yet?


----------



## markb

dswallow said:


> Have you seen these appear on a bill (or online on your account) yet?


Nope. I guess I'm surprised that it would let me order PPVs without checking that the phone line works, first.


----------



## newsposter

markb said:


> Nope. I guess I'm surprised that it would let me order PPVs without checking that the phone line works, first.


well it let's you schedule any series links you want without first checking for conflicts so why would it care about something like a phone line


----------



## sbelmont

I got the call on Saturday offerring a free upgrade. I called on Sunday, told them I had two receivers, one a DVR, and needed OTA. The CSR put me on hold and then came back saying that they would give me an HR20 and an H20 at no charge and the earliest appointment was this Wednesday. I actually couldn't do it today so I put it off until nexr Wednesday. We will see how it goes.


----------



## rbuckingham

They've called me 3 times in the last 3 months and they recently sent me an email too, so I actually got pro-active and called them today and they are coming over next week with a new DVR and dish, all for free. I made sure I get to keep my existing HDR-250 too as my secondary Receiver and that's fine with them apparently.

So I'm wondering... why would anyone have to negotiate anything or call retention etc? Seems they're just doing free upgrades with no hassle at the moment. I mean yes it sucks that my most 'capable' receiver is now not a TiVo... but until the TiVo stops working with the existing HD channels I don't have any reason to complain now that they're offering a more capable service and device for free do I?


----------



## fasTLane

How special.


----------



## Flogduh

fasTLane said:


> How special.


Why some members can't seem to resist to reply with pure crap is beyond be. Thanks for the insightful, value added response there TL


----------



## katyfranz

rbuckingham said:


> I made sure I get to keep my existing HDR-250 too as my secondary Receiver and that's fine with them apparently.


Has anyone had success selling their HDR-250 after swapping to the HR-20? If so, what aproximately is going rate. Is there anything I would have to do to transfer the account or cards to the new owner?

Is there a market for 3lnb dishes?

Thanks!
Katy Franz


----------



## dswallow

katyfranz said:


> Has anyone had success selling their HDR-250 after swapping to the HR-20? If so, what aproximately is going rate. Is there anything I would have to do to transfer the account or cards to the new owner?
> 
> Is there a market for 3lnb dishes?
> 
> Thanks!
> Katy Franz


The HR10-250's seem to be going for $80-$100 on eBay. So that's likely closer to $70-$90 after eBay/PayPal fees.


----------



## OaklandRobb

I am thinking about upgrading but want to clarify a few things with folks here before even beginning the process with D*. I own two HR10-250s and two standard def DirecTivos which handles my four TVs nicely, although sooner or later I will be replacing my two remaining standard def TVs with HD models, one possibly quite soon. I have lifetime service on all four receivers, so I just pay the extra $10 for HD and $15 for the 3 additional receivers. I live in the Oakland Hills in the SF Bay Area so I have no problem getting my HD locals OTA which the HD-Tivos handle just fine. This includes Fox, CBS, ABC, NBC and PBS. I have a 3 LNB dish and use diplexers to get the OTA stations. So here are my immediate questions.

1. Will I now be able to get all 5 of those HD locals with the satellite stream if I upgrade and end up with four HR-21's.

2. Will they replace my 3 LNB dish with a 5 LNB?

3. Will they upgrade all 4 of my receivers, possibly for no charge to HD models?

4. If the answer to 1 is "yes", and I will be able to get my HD locals as part of the satellite stream, is there any important reason to push for the HR-20?

5. If I can't get my HD locals in the satellite stream and get one or more HR-20s, have they addressed the issue that prevented the use of dipexers with the original 5 LNB dish.

Any other issues I should be considering before moving forward with the upgrade? They haven't called me yet, but I assume it is inevitable and it would be fun to have more HD choices.

Thanks for all the help.


Robb


----------



## milominderbinder

OaklandRobb said:


> ...
> 1. Will I now be able to get all 5 of those HD locals with the satellite stream if I upgrade and end up with four HR-21's.
> 
> 2. Will they replace my 3 LNB dish with a 5 LNB?
> 
> 3. Will they upgrade all 4 of my receivers, possibly for no charge to HD models?
> 
> 4. If the answer to 1 is "yes", and I will be able to get my HD locals as part of the satellite stream, is there any important reason to push for the HR-20?
> 
> 5. If I can't get my HD locals in the satellite stream and get one or more HR-21s, have they addressed the issue that prevented the use of dipexers with the original 5 LNB dish...


1. You should be able to get dozens of OTA HD channels in your market not 5.
Call DIRECTV and follow the tips on making sure you get an HR20.
2. Yes.
3. Call DIRECTV.
4. See 1.
5. HR21's can't receive OTA so it us a mute point.

These links will help you:
Ordering Tips ● Installation Guide

- Craig


----------



## OaklandRobb

For question 5, I meant to say HR-20. I have edited my question to say that.

So the question is - 5. If I can't get my HD locals in the satellite stream and get one or more HR-21s, have they addressed the issue that prevented the use of dipexers with the original 5 LNB dish?


----------



## dswallow

milominderbinder said:


> 5. HR21's can't receive OTA so it us a mute point.


Moot, not mute.


----------



## bigpuma

OaklandRobb said:


> 1. Will I now be able to get all 5 of those HD locals with the satellite stream if I upgrade and end up with four HR-21's.


Fox, ABC, CBS, and NBC are currently available via satelite. If you get an HR20 you can still get the OTA channels.



> 2. Will they replace my 3 LNB dish with a 5 LNB?


yes.



> 3. Will they upgrade all 4 of my receivers, possibly for no charge to HD models?


I doubt you would get all 4 for free but it is possible. The only way to know what they will do is to call and ask. Sometimes you have to call multiple times to get the best deal.



> 4. If the answer to 1 is "yes", and I will be able to get my HD locals as part of the satellite stream, is there any important reason to push for the HR-20?


See post 1. Yes you will get the major networks but not CW or PBS.



> 5. If I can't get my HD locals in the satellite stream and get one or more HR-20s, have they addressed the issue that prevented the use of dipexers with the original 5 LNB dish.


Sorry I don't know the answer to this.


----------



## joed32

5. If I can't get my HD locals in the satellite stream and get one or more HR-20s, have they addressed the issue that prevented the use of dipexers with the original 5 LNB dish.

No.


----------



## mhn2

Here's my story...

My son had a basic non-DVR receiver in his room that he never used, so I decided to disconnect it. I tried to call in to customer service and they "were experiencing heavy call volumes." So I sent an email asking to deactivate the box. They sent me a message back saying how I was a long time customer and they really appreciate my business and they would take care of it. Since they were being so appreciative, I decided I would hit them up for an HD DVR upgrade. I really do prefer the TiVo interface over the new DVRs, but I would like to get the HD versions of the satellite channels we record. We have been just recording HD OTA.

In my message back to them I said:
I was excited about all the new HD channels that they were bringing out and how I can't get them with my current equipment.
I spent $800 on my DirecTiVo a few years back and I was told at the time that I would be able to upgrade for little or no cost once a new MPEG4 model came out.
I love my DirecTV service and had no intention of leaving. In fact, I was hoping to expand my programming, as long as I didn't have to pay more money for new equipment.

Here is the response I got:

_Thank you for writing us back. It's always a pleasure hearing from one of our long time and valued customers. On behalf of DIRECTV, I want to thank you for your ongoing support in our service. I understand your concern about your HR10-250 receiver and Ive got good news! Based on your history with us, you qualify for a free HD upgrade.

This upgrade will ensure that you can get the newest HD channels that are available now and that are coming up in the next few months. This is available to you only and is not transferable. This offer is only available by calling us at 1-800-531-5000, so give us a call to order your equipment and schedule your upgrade.

Thanks again for writing. We look forward to hearing from you soon! _

I thought, great, I'll just call in and get this scheduled asap. When I called in though, the rep told me she could only offer me a free HD receiver - not an HD DVR receiver. I told her this has been approved by email from
Employee ******
ID# ******
Can't you just verify this with her? She said no, she wasn't able to contact her and all she was able to do is offer the regular HD recvr. I said no thanks and said I will send another email to resolve it. I did and they apologized for the confusion and I was told a specialist would contact me within a few days.

After no calls, I called in and said "cancel service" on the automated system to reach retention. I got the same story about not being able to approve an HD DVR for free. I said, I don't understand, this has already been approved. I was put on hold and when she came back on she said they would charge me $299 for the recvr and credit my account $299. The install is scheduled for the 16th. I didn't ask for and was not offered any HD programming discounts. I'll call back to get add the HD package and see if they can offer anything.

It took some work, but I was able to get it done.


----------



## FlopShot

FlopShot said:


> Well, since you live in Morgan Hill, and I live in Gilroy, they will probably send the same installation company for my swap. And my friend in Monterey told me the same thing, that his installer said "I'm supposed to take the HR10, but I never do if the customer wants to keep it." So I'll probably just roll the dice and see what happens when the installer shows up.


I got my upgrade yesterday, and sure enough, they brought an HR21. Not a big problem for me since I can't receive OTA anyway, but I'll be unhappy if I ever move to a town without OTA HD. I was surprised they let me keep all of my LA waivers after they checked my local HD's were coming thru. The installer never asked me for my HR10-250, in fact he asked me if I would like to keep it activated so I can use it elsewhere in the house! So now I have a different problem... the wife made me promise her that this HD-DVR upgrade was free (which it was), but now I have to tell her that I need to buy another HDTV in order to keep using the HR10-250! lol.


----------



## JohnB1000

Hey I'm also in Morgan Hill 

DTV has announced it's HD OTA "plug in" device today. A small slimeline box designed to sit on top of the HR21 and process power and data through USB.

The thin box on top of the other thinish box


----------



## midas

My contract is up next month so I finally decided to call them and see what my upgrade costs would be. The generous souls at DirecTV were willing to swap my Hughes HD receiver for free and my 2 HD-Tivos for a measly $600. Yea well Dish Network, here I come.


----------



## bigpuma

midas said:


> My contract is up next month so I finally decided to call them and see what my upgrade costs would be. The generous souls at DirecTV were willing to swap my Hughes HD receiver for free and my 2 HD-Tivos for a measly $600. Yea well Dish Network, here I come.


When you call them to cancel they will probably offer it to you free.


----------



## midas

bigpuma said:


> When you call them to cancel they will probably offer it to you free.


Yep, and it will be too late at that point. I have a month to cool off, but right now, I'm spitting nails.


----------



## newsposter

amazing...to me it looks like the add on tuner would cause the HRXX box to be much larger than it is..i wonder how they get that box in the main box and make it so small for production OTA units? hmmm

2pts to them for thinking of ways to make more money off folks


----------



## midas

Well I was so mad after yesterday that I not only called Dish but I also called Comcast. I was actually shocked to find out that Comcast would be about $5 a month less than I'm paying now. I'd be giving up a few channels and I'd get a few less new HD channels, but I wouldn't be out $600 up front cost either. 

So I called DirecTV to give them one more chance to save my business. I said 'cancel service' at the voice prompt and told the guy that answered that since I was on the auto-pay plan I wanted to make sure that I wouldn't have any charges after my commitment was up. This gave him the open window to ask why I wanted to cancel. I was pretty frank about it, and of course, we played let's make a deal. 

First he offered to replace all 3 receivers, 2 HD-Tivos and one old Hughes HD receiver for $300. I didn't bite on that. It was half the original $600, but still too much. Eventually he got down to basically free except for the $20 shipping charges. At that point I was happy. I didn't want to bleed them, I just wanted what I was basically promised regarding 'free or low cost' replacement of the HD-Tivos when I bought them. I probably could have whined for a few programming credits, but I felt I finally got a fair deal and that was good enough. 

Now for the problems that I'll have to cope with. First, no guarantee of the HR20. He did say that I was eligible for a swap to the HR20 after the install if all they had was the HR21. Sounds a little fishy, but he said my account was noted and I just had to call after the install and they would then ship an HR20 and I'd send back the HR21. I'm willing to bet the HR20 will be a refurb. We'll see how that shakes out. 

Second problem, he told me I'd see a charge on my account for $700 something but I would get credits applied back to that. Well I received 2 emails, one for a $299 credit and one for a $99 credit. But I'm missing the other $299 credit and the pending orders page actually shows $760 in charges, which also included taxes. But I think I'm OK since the 'Activity since last bill' shows credits for everything including the sales tax. I don't even see the $20 shipping charges on there. I've made sure to capture a screen shot showing all the credits so I hope I'll be OK. 

Even odder, I was told, as I expected, that I'd have a new 2 year commitment. I've been with DirecTV for 6 years so I didn't have a problem with that. But that same recent activity section shows a line item of "No Annual Commitment - Charge $0.00 $0.00" I don't know if that means there is no new commitment or if they'll tack it on at activation time. 

Now the fun starts. I've got 2 weeks till the install. In that two weeks I've got to get my wife to accept that she's losing her Tivo. As much as I personally am upset about this, she's going to be a real problem. She is a massive technophobic. When we first switched from cable to Dish, her only question was whether she'd have to give up her Tivo. When we went to DirecTV she asked the same question. After 8 years, it will finally be time to give it up.


----------



## Budget_HT

midas said:


> ...Now the fun starts. I've got 2 weeks till the install. In that two weeks I've got to get my wife to accept that she's losing her Tivo. As much as I personally am upset about this, she's going to be a real problem. She is a massive technophobic. When we first switched from cable to Dish, her only question was whether she'd have to give up her Tivo. When we went to DirecTV she asked the same question. After 8 years, it will finally be time to give it up.


Why does your wife have to give up her TiVo? There is no problem leaving the TiVo activated and it will still receive all digital OTA (for a DirecTV HD TiVo) and all MPEG-2 programs over satellite, which is ALL SD programming. The only thing missing will be the new HD channels, and later on, the older MPEG-2 HD satellite channels. If she watches mostly OTA, she would be fine.


----------



## midas

Budget_HT said:


> Why does your wife have to give up her TiVo? There is no problem leaving the TiVo activated and it will still receive all digital OTA (for a DirecTV HD TiVo) and all MPEG-2 programs over satellite, which is ALL SD programming. The only thing missing will be the new HD channels, and later on, the older MPEG-2 HD satellite channels. If she watches mostly OTA, she would be fine.


Unfortunately she doesn't watch only OTA. If she did, that would make things easy. And frankly, when I got the $300 offer I was ready to sell her out and just try for a decent deal to only replace mine. But when he came back with a basically free swap of all 3 receivers I had to take the deal.

It's inevitable that it will need to be replaced at some point anyway. Whether it's a matter of lack of available programming or it just goes belly up. May as well do it for free now.


----------



## jmgonzalez

Anyone have any idea is Single Wire is available as an option while upgrading?

Are 2 lines needed just to watch a channel while recording on another, or are 2 lines needed just for basic viewing of the MPEG4 channels?

I got the free upgrade email but don't want to run new lines to the new upgraded receivers if 2 are needed.


----------



## milominderbinder

jmgonzalez said:


> Anyone have any idea is Single Wire is available as an option while upgrading?
> 
> Are 2 lines needed just to watch a channel while recording on another, or are 2 lines needed just for basic viewing of the MPEG4 channels?
> 
> I got the free upgrade email but don't want to run new lines to the new upgraded receivers if 2 are needed.


1. Right now SWM is a separate box the consumer buys on their own. But since they are trying to get you to move, maybethey might be able to work some magic? Here is more info on SWM:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=380541

2. Only one cable is needed even without SWM to watch one recording while recording another.

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

midas said:


> ...Now the fun starts. I've got 2 weeks till the install. In that two weeks I've got to get my wife to accept that she's losing her Tivo. As much as I personally am upset about this, she's going to be a real problem. She is a massive technophobic. When we first switched from cable to Dish, her only question was whether she'd have to give up her Tivo. When we went to DirecTV she asked the same question. After 8 years, it will finally be time to give it up.


Midas,

You are on step 5 of the Ordering Tips. I am sorry you did not know about them when you made your first call. For HR10 owners, that sample email seems to work every time.

Please see the step about going online to make sure you are getting exactly what you expect. Also take a look at the checklist that you will be required to sign.

Second, there is a lot that you can do to make sure that you ahve a great installation. Some of these tips are the same things to consider when any contractor is coming to your home:

Installation Guide

Here are a couple more links from the HD DVR FAQ.

_What will I be asked to sign once the installation is complete?_
→ Installation Checklist ● Agreement

_Is there an easy way to get started?_
→ 5-Minute Quick Start ● *Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks*

_What can help me transition from TiVo? How do I get Suggestions?_
→ TiVo Users Survival Guide ● Better Suggestions than TiVo!

Good Luck!

- Craig


----------



## midas

milominderbinder said:


> Midas,
> 
> You are on step 5 of the Ordering Tips. I am sorry you did not know about them when you made your first call. For HR10 owners, that sample email seems to work every time.


Hey Craig, you're in Chicago. You should be a nice guy and come help 

Seriously, your links were actually a big help to me and I think they'll help even more once the install is done. I also want to thank another Chicago area guy, ebonovic, for answering some questions via PM a few months ago.

I was aware of the sample email. But there's one thing I learned long ago about D*. If they make you an offer and you don't accept it, it never makes it into their call logs. You can call back in an hour, the next day or the next week and person you talk to will have no idea that you already turned down a previous offer unless you tell them. So I felt the email was a card I could play at any time.

The mistake I made was that I let the first guy I talked to get me POed. Under normal circumstances I would have just said no thanks and called back the next day. But he pushed some hot buttons and I blew my top. Of course, that probably helped in the end because when I did call the next day I was still mad and it showed. I've always tried to be *extremely* nice when I've played this game in the past. I usually tell them that my wife is bugging me about such and such an offer from Comcast or something and that I'd really like to stick with D*. What can we do that will let me stay and still keep my wife from bugging me?

This is the first time I've really been mad when I called. At that point I wasn't calling to try to make a deal, I was really calling to cancel. It really took a CSR that knew what he was doing to keep my business. The guy I talked to should volunteer to work a suicide hot line.


----------



## milominderbinder

midas said:


> Hey Craig, you're in Chicago. You should be a nice guy and come help
> ...


You bet!

There is a new release that is just going national that is going to give you some great new features. It will go national on the HR20 first and then the HR21.

Here are some resources to help you use the new features:

_How can I do more advanced searches?
_→ Enhanced Search

_Is there a way to get Dual Live Buffers (Watch two live programs at once)?_
→ DLB Workaround

_How do I schedule a recording on the HD DVR+ from my PC?_
→ Remote Booking ● New Online Suggestions

There are other new features that need little explaination:

● Triple Tap Lookup for DoD: When on a DoD page, you can use the # keys on your remote to enter letters in "cellphone/SMS" style. AKA: Hit #2 Three times to get a C
● _*Adult Channel Hiding*_: This is an update parental control that is currently on the R15. When you enable this, it completely REMOVES the adult rated channels from the listings, almost as if they don't exist.
● IP Callback: The ethernet/internet connection, will now be used for communication back to DirecTV for: PPV purchases, GameLounge, and other items. *No phone line is required!*
● Mediashare Video Support: *You can now access jpegs, MP3's, and video files from your PC*.
● *30 Second Skip*: You will now have the choice between 30s SKIP or SLIP. To enable: Keyword Search 30SKIP or 30SLIP
● Shortcut for _*Closed Caption On/Off - Only 2 clicks now*_!
● Edit Series Link options when no episodes are found

- Craig


----------



## incog-neato

There was just a $100 price drop on the HR2x's. Selling price (before negotiating) is now $199.95 and new customers can get them for $99.95 after rebate.

Ahhh, the fond rememberances of the $999.95 HR10-250 days.


----------



## fasTLane

incog-neato said:


> Ahhh, the fond rememberances of the $999.95 HR10-250 days.


..and worth every penny..


----------



## itzme

milominderbinder said:


> You bet!
> ● IP Callback: The ethernet/internet connection, will now be used for communication back to DirecTV for: PPV purchases, GameLounge, and other items. *No phone line is required!*
> ● Mediashare Video Support: *You can now access jpegs, MP3's, and video files from your PC*.
> 
> - Craig


I've looked at some long threads over at DBS but still have some basic questions about Mediashare on the H20/21 and a wireless network. I still have my HR 10 250 but I also have an Xbox Media Center (XBMC) that uses an ethernet adapter/bridge to access my wireless network. This lets me download vids and bit torrents to my PC and watch them via the XBMC. Will the H20/21 do this via my wireless network? Does it now play all video file formats, or only certain approved ones. Do I need another similar wireless bridge to use it? THANKS


----------



## ebonovic

itzme said:


> I've looked at some long threads over at DBS but still have some basic questions about Mediashare on the H20/21 and a wireless network. I still have my HR 10 250 but I also have an Xbox Media Center (XBMC) that uses an ethernet adapter/bridge to access my wireless network. This lets me download vids and bit torrents to my PC and watch them via the XBMC. Will the H20/21 do this via my wireless network? Does it now play all video file formats, or only certain approved ones. Do I need another similar wireless bridge to use it? THANKS


You need a wirless bridge to network up your HR20/21
The H20/21 will not do it at this time.

And yes, a good number of the common video formats and codecs are supported by the media servers, which will transcode it (if necessary) so the format the HR20/21 (only the HR20 at this point), will want it at.


----------



## denary

Well, I thought I was getting an upgrade to the HR21 - but as it turns out, not so much.

Here is my story:

Called for the upgrade - was sent a H21 box - called and confirmed that I was to have the HR21 installed, as originally requested. (my bad for allowing the H21 to be installed - but I didn't realize it was the wrong box at the time)

HR21 was scheduled for install tomorrow. I looked at my bill and was charged for both the H21 and the HR21. When I called to inquire, I was told the $99 for the install of the H21 was irreversible as I allowed it to be installed (but this is not the box I ordered). I was told I needed to speak to a supervisor.

Supervisor comes on and he tells me that I have been given misinformation from DirecTV and that the offer for the free upgrade is not available in my area (it's only available in TX and CA).

WTF?

So - it's back to the HR10-250 for me.


----------



## MurrayW

denary said:


> ...Supervisor comes on and he tells me that I have been given misinformation from DirecTV and that the offer for the free upgrade is not available in my area (it's only available in TX and CA).
> 
> WTF?
> 
> So - it's back to the HR10-250 for me.


Did you get the supervisor's name so I can ask for him and get my free HR2x?


----------



## Ratdog43

FlopShot said:


> I got my upgrade yesterday, and sure enough, they brought an HR21. Not a big problem for me since I can't receive OTA anyway, but I'll be unhappy if I ever move to a town without OTA HD. I was surprised they let me keep all of my LA waivers after they checked my local HD's were coming thru. The installer never asked me for my HR10-250, in fact he asked me if I would like to keep it activated so I can use it elsewhere in the house! So now I have a different problem... the wife made me promise her that this HD-DVR upgrade was free (which it was), but now I have to tell her that I need to buy another HDTV in order to keep using the HR10-250! lol.


Has anyone been forced to give up there HR10-250? My rep said they would do a swap but I don't want to give it away.


----------



## milominderbinder

denary said:


> Well, I thought I was getting an upgrade to the HR21 - but as it turns out, not so much.
> 
> Here is my story:
> 
> Called for the upgrade - was sent a H21 box - called and confirmed that I was to have the HR21 installed, as originally requested. (my bad for allowing the H21 to be installed - but I didn't realize it was the wrong box at the time)..


If only you had known about the Ordering Tips. You could have known the email to send to get the upgrade for free.

You could have been watching in real time as they set up your order and made changes to your account. You would have known the exact words to look for.

If you could have known about the Installation Guide, you would have known you were getting the right gear before they ever came to your house.

Your story shows how important TiVoCommunity is. I wish you would have known about it before now.

Take care,

- Craig


----------



## itzme

ebonovic said:


> You need a wirless bridge to network up your HR20/21
> The H20/21 will not do it at this time.
> 
> And yes, a good number of the common video formats and codecs are supported by the media servers, which will transcode it (if necessary) so the format the HR20/21 (only the HR20 at this point), will want it at.


Please let me be sure I understand this. This is yet another difference between the HR20 vs HR21? In addition to no OTA on the HR21, only the HR 20 will let me add it to my wireless network, via a bridge? When might the HR21 allow that?


----------



## MurrayW

I have the MLB package and got an automated phone call last night saying "our records indicate you need a new dish and HD *receiver* to watch the HD broadcasts of MLB EI". They repeated twice that "this will be absolutely free".

Well first of all, their records are not very accurate since I got an HR20 and a new dish installed earlier this fall to replace one of my 3 HR10-250's. When I got the HR20, I kept all 3 HR10's in service and disconnected one of my SD DirecTivo's. They made me an offer to replace my other 2 HR10's at that time that was not very attractive to me, so I decided to wait. Plus there was no way I was going to try to use the HR20's to watch the NFL Sunday ticket. With my HR10's I am EASILY able to watch 4 games at once and even attempted 6 games a time or two by using the dual live buffers on the HR10's.

I think that I will give them a call and see how literal they are going to be with this message and say it only applies to an HD receiver and not an HD DVR. Oh, and on top of that I am going to fight hard for an HR20 not HR21 because I want the OTA since D* doesn't carry the Austin NBC station in HD.

Murray


----------



## shibby191

itzme said:


> Please let me be sure I understand this. This is yet another difference between the HR20 vs HR21? In addition to no OTA on the HR21, only the HR 20 will let me add it to my wireless network, via a bridge? When might the HR21 allow that?


HR20 and HR21 both connect just fine to your network.

What the other poster said is the non-DVR models, the H20 and H21 do *not* connect to a network at this time.


----------



## bigpuma

MurrayW said:


> I have the MLB package and got an automated phone call last night saying "our records indicate you need a new dish and HD *receiver* to watch the HD broadcasts of MLB EI". They repeated twice that "this will be absolutely free".
> 
> Well first of all, their records are not very accurate since I got an HR20 and a new dish installed earlier this fall to replace one of my 3 HR10-250's. When I got the HR20, I kept all 3 HR10's in service and disconnected one of my SD DirecTivo's. They made me an offer to replace my other 2 HR10's at that time that was not very attractive to me, so I decided to wait. Plus there was no way I was going to try to use the HR20's to watch the NFL Sunday ticket. With my HR10's I am EASILY able to watch 4 games at once and even attempted 6 games a time or two by using the dual live buffers on the HR10's.
> 
> I think that I will give them a call and see how literal they are going to be with this message and say it only applies to an HD receiver and not an HD DVR. Oh, and on top of that I am going to fight hard for an HR20 not HR21 because I want the OTA since D* doesn't carry the Austin NBC station in HD.
> 
> Murray


The same thing happened to me but I am not sure what triggered the call. I was able to get a 2nd HD DVR (HR21) in December for free even though I had already been upgraded to an HR20 over a year earlier. I don't care about OTA though so I didn't mind getting the HR20.


----------



## itzme

shibby191 said:


> HR20 and HR21 both connect just fine to your network.
> 
> What the other poster said is the non-DVR models, the H20 and H21 do *not* connect to a network at this time.


Shibby, Are you sure? The poster was Earl. I'm not sure, but the beginning of his reply speaks to the non DVR, but the end of his reply specifically states (only the HR20 at this point). Are we sure both the HR20 and HR21 are identical in their networking and VOD abilities?


----------



## shibby191

itzme said:


> Shibby, Are you sure? The poster was Earl. I'm not sure, but the beginning of his reply speaks to the non DVR, but the end of his reply specifically states (only the HR20 at this point). Are we sure both the HR20 and HR21 are identical in their networking and VOD abilities?


Earl said this:


> You need a wirless bridge to network up your HR20/21
> The H20/21 will not do it at this time.


The HR20/21 can hook up to the network.
The H20/21 (non-DVR) cannot.

The HR20 and HR21 both connect to the network and the Internet and both do VOD. HR21 is behind the HR20 in their software so VOD may not be totally active for everyone that isn't in the CE program. VOD has gone national on the HR20 but still in "beta". Basically stop by DBSTalk, that is the place for tons and tons of detailed info on the HR20/21 series, not here. Ask your question there and you'll get a dozen replies to it pretty quickly.


----------



## itzme

shibby191 said:


> ... Basically stop by DBSTalk, that is the place for tons and tons of detailed info on the HR20/21 series, not here. Ask your question there and you'll get a dozen replies to it pretty quickly.


Thanks for clarifying things. Deep down I know I should be posting questions like that over at DBSTalk, but since I still only use the HR10, I feel more comfortable here I guess. I'll work my way over there. At the moment, I guess I fear I won't fully grasp the answers to my questions without having the equipment.

I'm kinda excited about the wireless networking features of the HR20/21. I just modded an old router to bridge to my entertainment center. I use it for a modded Xbox, and look forward to adding an HR20/21. Sorry to go off-topic, but don't you think that DTV could get rich by adding a web surfing feature to their DVRs? It SEEMS like all the technology is already there to do that right now (except some minor software). I wonder how much RAM (or equivelant memory source the HR20 has) I use my Wii with its Opera browser, and I LOVE surfing in my living room on my big screen. Just a thought.


----------



## OmarG

I just called and pulled the plug on the offer. I was lucky enough to get two very friendly CSRs. I called first about losing UHD and HDNM and was able to get those back with a three-month credit.

I said I'd gotten the e-mail about upgrading and they said it was noted in my account that I qualified for a "special offer." The woman transferred me to someone to handle the upgrade. I asked the second to check to see if I could get the HR-20 instead of the HR-21 because of my location and need to get OTA-HD. He checked and said I could get the HR-20 instead. We'll see if that bears out on the actual installation, but he sounded confident I'd be getting that one. I even asked to make sure he meant HR-20 and not H20 and he said it was the recorder.

I was told there'd be no charge at all for the installation. I checked to make sure there would be a new dish, multiswitch if needed, etc. I was told I could keep the HR-10 for another room and that my monthly bill would not change.

I'm pinching myself because it all sounds too good to be true. We'll see if it all works out, but I couldn't be happier with the offer I was given. I pushed the installation back two weeks to give myself time to get through my current DVR programs just in case things go wrong. They're scheduled to come Jan. 26. I'll miss the TiVo, but feel like this was inevitable, so here we go.

The tips and reminders milomindbender has been posting were very helpful. Thanks!


----------



## Adam1115

I'm really surprised that DirecTV is reneging on their promises to offer free upgrades to HR20/21's to HR10 users.

I for one was promised this when I bought my HR10, I canceled before it mattered. But I know for a fact that they were promising this for awhile... (When they started all of the MPEG4 locals, but didn't have a DVR capable of receiving them...)


----------



## OmarG

I just got an e-mail saying my account has been credited $199.00, so it sounds like they're making good on the "Free or near-free" part of the offer.


----------



## shibby191

Adam1115 said:


> I'm really surprised that DirecTV is reneging on their promises to offer free upgrades to HR20/21's to HR10 users.


They are doing free upgrades to the HR20 for many/most HR10 users. You just may not get the free upgrade when you want it. Right now any Nascar Hotpass or MLB EI HD subs are getting free upgrades with no problems. Anybody in LA or that get the LA DNS networks are getting free upgrades no questions asked. If you're not one of those groups then you'll just need to call and play "let's make a deal". Otherwise they will be doing the same free upgrades for Sunday Ticket Superfan subs in the summer and then NHL and NBA subs in the fall and eventually the NY DNS network subs. Between all that, that will take care of a good majority of the 100K or less HR10 subs left that don't have an HR20/21 already.

And you can bet those that are left will get free upgrades when the MPEG2 HD shutdown begins.

Until then it's up to you if you want to upgrade on your own early and see what kind of deal you can get. Price of the HR21 now is $199 with a $100 rebate which makes it $99 if you don't even try to get a deal.


----------



## Adam1115

shibby191 said:


> They are doing free upgrades to the HR20 for many/most HR10 users. You just may not get the free upgrade when you want it. Right now any Nascar Hotpass or MLB EI HD subs are getting free upgrades with no problems. Anybody in LA or that get the LA DNS networks are getting free upgrades no questions asked. If you're not one of those groups then you'll just need to call and play "let's make a deal". Otherwise they will be doing the same free upgrades for Sunday Ticket Superfan subs in the summer and then NHL and NBA subs in the fall and eventually the NY DNS network subs. Between all that, that will take care of a good majority of the 100K or less HR10 subs left that don't have an HR20/21 already.
> 
> And you can bet those that are left will get free upgrades when the MPEG2 HD shutdown begins.
> 
> Until then it's up to you if you want to upgrade on your own early and see what kind of deal you can get. Price of the HR21 now is $199 with a $100 rebate which makes it $99 if you don't even try to get a deal.


They started telling people this when they were launching HD-LIL in MPEG4, and the only receiver that could receive them was the H20 (non-dvr). The HR20 was not out yet, and they were promising free upgrades as soon as the HR20 came out.

I keep reading how there hardly any HR10 users out there... so good, get them upgraded for free! The bottom line is, they kept pushing HR10's on people as their 'HD-DVR' well after MPEG4 was in the works because their HR20 wasn't ready. They shouldn't punish these uesrs.


----------



## bpratt

OmarG said:


> I just called and pulled the plug on the offer. I was lucky enough to get two very friendly CSRs. I called first about losing UHD and HDNM and was able to get those back with a three-month credit.
> 
> I said I'd gotten the e-mail about upgrading and they said it was noted in my account that I qualified for a "special offer." The woman transferred me to someone to handle the upgrade. I asked the second to check to see if I could get the HR-20 instead of the HR-21 because of my location and need to get OTA-HD. He checked and said I could get the HR-20 instead. We'll see if that bears out on the actual installation, but he sounded confident I'd be getting that one. I even asked to make sure he meant HR-20 and not H20 and he said it was the recorder.
> 
> I was told there'd be no charge at all for the installation. I checked to make sure there would be a new dish, multiswitch if needed, etc. I was told I could keep the HR-10 for another room and that my monthly bill would not change.
> 
> I'm pinching myself because it all sounds too good to be true. We'll see if it all works out, but I couldn't be happier with the offer I was given. I pushed the installation back two weeks to give myself time to get through my current DVR programs just in case things go wrong. They're scheduled to come Jan. 26. I'll miss the TiVo, but feel like this was inevitable, so here we go.
> 
> The tips and reminders milomindbender has been posting were very helpful. Thanks!


I went through the same thing at the end of December. They promised me two HR20s for my two HR10s. It was scheduled to install January 11. I ask the CSR for the installers phone number so I could verify I would be getting the HR20 and not the HR21. The girl who answered the phone said she would put a note on the work order that I wanted HR20s and would not accept HR21s.

My D* bill was credited $598 but when the installer showed up on the 11th, all he had in his truck was HR21s. We called his supervisor and he said D* was no longer shipping them HR20s and they could not even get them.

I told them I had found HR20s at local stores and would they just put up the new dish and multiswitch. The supervisor said they had to do exactly what was on the work order or nothing, and I would have to call D* to set up a new appointment to install just the dish.

I called back, spent another 2 hours on the phone talking to 5 different departments and finally ended up with retention. All 5 departements told me that they would not ship me HR20s and they would not credit me if I purchased the HR20s from a local store.

The end result was that they canceled the free HR21s.

I may try again once the HR21 OTA solution is available (rumored to be at the end of February). In the mean time, I am checking out the HD offerings from Comcast and Dish.


----------



## milominderbinder

OmarG said:


> ...I was told there'd be no charge at all for the installation. I checked to make sure there would be a new dish, multiswitch if needed, etc. I was told I could keep the HR-10 for another room and that my monthly bill would not change.
> 
> I'm pinching myself because it all sounds too good to be true. We'll see if it all works out, but I couldn't be happier with the offer I was given. I pushed the installation back two weeks to give myself time to get through my current DVR programs just in case things go wrong. They're scheduled to come Jan. 26. I'll miss the TiVo, but feel like this was inevitable, so here we go.
> 
> The tips and reminders milomindbender has been posting were very helpful. Thanks!


Thank you!

You are on step 5 of the Ordering Tips.

Please go online to make sure you are getting exactly what you expect. Also take a look at the checklist that you will be required to sign.

Second, there is a lot that you can do to make sure that you have a great installation. Some of these tips are the same things to consider when any contractor is coming to your home:

Installation Guide

Here are a couple more links from the HD DVR FAQ.

_What will I be asked to sign once the installation is complete?_
→ Installation Checklist ● Agreement

_Is there an easy way to get started?_
→ 5-Minute Quick Start ● *Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks*

_What can help me transition from TiVo? How do I get Suggestions?_
→ TiVo Users Survival Guide ● Better Suggestions than TiVo!

Good Luck!

- Craig


----------



## milominderbinder

Adam1115 said:


> I'm really surprised that DirecTV is reneging on their promises to offer free upgrades to HR20/21's to HR10 users.
> 
> I for one was promised this when I bought my HR10, I canceled before it mattered. But I know for a fact that they were promising this for awhile... (When they started all of the MPEG4 locals, but didn't have a DVR capable of receiving them...)


I do not know of any HR10 user who tried the email in the ordering tips that that did not get the free offer.

See the Ordering Tips for how to do it.

- Craig


----------



## shibby191

Adam1115 said:


> They started telling people this when they were launching HD-LIL in MPEG4, and the only receiver that could receive them was the H20 (non-dvr). The HR20 was not out yet, and they were promising free upgrades as soon as the HR20 came out.
> 
> I keep reading how there hardly any HR10 users out there... so good, get them upgraded for free! The bottom line is, they kept pushing HR10's on people as their 'HD-DVR' well after MPEG4 was in the works because their HR20 wasn't ready. They shouldn't punish these uesrs.


I don't think DirecTV every publicly promised anything let alone free upgrades. Lots of rumors on various forums but never anything official.

However having said that, most people with HR10's are indeed getting free or nearly free upgrades and have been for a year and a half now. You either wait your turn, play CSR roulette or pay to get it early. Your choice.


----------



## Adam1115

shibby191 said:


> I don't think DirecTV every publicly promised anything let alone free upgrades. Lots of rumors on various forums but never anything official.
> 
> However having said that, most people with HR10's are indeed getting free or nearly free upgrades and have been for a year and a half now. You either wait your turn, play CSR roulette or pay to get it early. Your choice.


It has to be 'announced or official'? Vs. being told by the rep 'don't worry, you will get a free upgrade when the new dvr comes out?' 'We're noting it in your account.'.

The REPS were telling LOTS of people this at the time.


----------



## shibby191

Adam1115 said:


> It has to be 'announced or official'? Vs. being told by the rep 'don't worry, you will get a free upgrade when the new dvr comes out?' 'We're noting it in your account.'.
> 
> The REPS were telling LOTS of people this at the time.


Well, if it's noted in your account then there you go. Free upgrade. Shouldn't be much trouble getting it either, especially now.


----------



## Adam1115

shibby191 said:


> Well, if it's noted in your account then there you go. Free upgrade. Shouldn't be much trouble getting it either, especially now.


I'll give you a hint, they LIE, and I cancelled.


----------



## bjschw

milominderbinder said:


> I do not know of any HR10 user who tried the email in the ordering tips that that did not get the free offer.
> 
> See the Ordering Tips for how to do it.
> 
> - Craig


I didn't get the free upgrade I had to pay $99 + shipping and handling.


----------



## bjschw

Ratdog43 said:


> Has anyone been forced to give up there HR10-250? My rep said they would do a swap but I don't want to give it away.


They tried that BS with me but I refused since I own it I bought it from Best Buy years ago. She finally gave in and let me have it but said it will be deactivated.


----------



## adlerx

milominderbinder said:


> I do not know of any HR10 user who tried the email in the ordering tips that that did not get the free offer.
> 
> See the Ordering Tips for how to do it.
> 
> - Craig


Well, we'll put it to the ultimate test. Just activated an hr10 yesterday and sent the email today. I'm doubtful about it working but we'll see...


----------



## krs7272

Well I called yesterday and inquired as to my deal. I have had HD from D* for about 6 yrs. Offered me new dish HD DVR & to replace my Sony HD300 all for no charge.

Will see I plan on just using one tuner from the HR20/21 FOR HD recordings and keeping my HR10-250 running for everything else knowing I will most likely hate the new DVR.


----------



## Dignan

Tivo fence sitter here (Not cold dead fingers type, just didn't want the upgrade hassle). I just called due to the ominous SCROLLING MESSAGE post from Earl about the LA DNS nets. I was nervous because I am an old school "mover"....

Took about a half an hour, at first told I was getting 2 free HR20s, free install, free everything, 3 months free HD. When he used my billing address (we finally get Local HD) it showed up as a new account and had to charge. He had to credit me back by filling out a form, done deal.

So while I'm not happy about losing my HD Tivos for network stations (they really are better, I've used the HR20 at a friends house), I'm happy I got a good deal, install next week and I know the company they use here.

Now if there was just something good to watch, damn you writers strike!!


----------



## sdchrgrboy

Dignan said:


> Tivo fence sitter here (Not cold dead fingers type, just didn't want the upgrade hassle). I just called due to the ominous SCROLLING MESSAGE post from Earl about the LA DNS nets. I was nervous because I am an old school "mover"....
> 
> Took about a half an hour, at first told I was getting 2 free HR20s, free install, free everything, 3 months free HD. When he used my billing address (we finally get Local HD) it showed up as a new account and had to charge. He had to credit me back by filling out a form, done deal.
> 
> So while I'm not happy about losing my HD Tivos for network stations (they really are better, I've used the HR20 at a friends house), I'm happy I got a good deal, install next week and I know the company they use here.
> 
> Now if there was just something good to watch, damn you writers strike!!


I am in a similar situation. Can you have the boxes shipped to the billing address or do they need to go to the service address? I hope I don't need to move back then back again if you know what I mean.


----------



## Dignan

sdchrgrboy said:


> I am in a similar situation. Can you have the boxes shipped to the billing address or do they need to go to the service address? I hope I don't need to move back then back again if you know what I mean.


His first suggestion was to have the boxes shipped to my service address and pick them up (it's about 40 miles from my house and previously a white zone). I said it would be a real pain because we are transitioning to our new house (where I really live, but now get Local HD nets). He came back and said he could do it by adding it to the newly changed service address and then credit back the $428 by filling out a form and having his supervisor sign it.

I'm actually relieved I don't have to do the "move" thing anymore, it was a grey area for me.


----------



## Jeff Ray

1. Replace HR10 with new whatever for $199.
2. New dish install for $99.
3. Credit for $99.
4. No service commitment as I was doing a swap. This was important to me.
5. Pay more if I want HD Extra
6. Stay on Total Choice and basic HD.

From prior reading, sounds like I could get more but then would need to do a 2 year commitment. I do not want to as I am holding out for Verizon FIOS.

Thanks for your thoughts (and prayers)


----------



## adlerx

adlerx said:


> Well, we'll put it to the ultimate test. Just activated an hr10 yesterday and sent the email today. I'm doubtful about it working but we'll see...


Well, got the email back within a couple of jours with the PIN for a "deal". I'll call tomorrow and let you know kind of deal what I get. I don't anticipate problems since I have west coast DNS...


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Dignan said:


> So while I'm not happy about losing my HD Tivos for network stations (they really are better, I've used the HR20 at a friends house), I'm happy I got a good deal, install next week and I know the company they use here.


if the HR20 looked worse at you friends house (network channels) that only means you have a much better TV than he does. 

Seriously, on the same TV, no comparison - the HR20 MPEG4 picture is much sharper then the 10-250's

Let us know your opinion when you get to watch on your TV. GL


----------



## bpratt

Jeff Ray said:


> 1. Replace HR10 with new whatever for $199.
> 2. New dish install for $99.
> 3. Credit for $99.
> 4. No service commitment as I was doing a swap. This was important to me.
> 5. Pay more if I want HD Extra
> 6. Stay on Total Choice and basic HD.
> 
> From prior reading, sounds like I could get more but then would need to do a 2 year commitment. I do not want to as I am holding out for Verizon FIOS.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts (and prayers)


What makes you think you didn't just commit to an additional 2 years with the deal you got?


----------



## Jeff Ray

The CSR checked and doublechecked and said no 2 year commitment. That being said, I will call back and check as well. She said I did not have to make a new commitment because it was a swap for an owned machine. If she was wrong, I will either cancel the installation or pursue a better deal. I already got the $99 installation credit on my bill and the $199 for the equipment is to be put on my bill in three installments after installation.

That is why I did not pursue the credit for 24 months of HD programming that others got per this thread as I did not want to make a 2 year commitment to Directv.

Make sense to you all?


----------



## Dignan

Jebberwocky! said:


> if the HR20 looked worse at you friends house (network channels) that only means you have a much better TV than he does.
> 
> Seriously, on the same TV, no comparison - the HR20 MPEG4 picture is much sharper then the 10-250's
> 
> Let us know your opinion when you get to watch on your TV. GL


Heh, no actually he has a better set, I helped him buy it.  (although mine has been ISF calibrated)

I meant I wasn't wild about how the HR20 worked, but that will be moot once I finally go all in. I can't believe how much flaming this issue has generated. It's unfortunate that the HR10 isn't an HR40 with Tivo software, but you can't always get what you want.

I did manage to change my install date up to this Friday.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Dignan said:


> Heh, no actually he has a better set, I helped him buy it.  (although mine has been ISF calibrated)
> 
> I meant I wasn't wild about how the HR20 worked, but that will be moot once I finally go all in. I can't believe how much flaming this issue has generated. It's unfortunate that the HR10 isn't an HR40 with Tivo software, but you can't always get what you want.
> 
> I did manage to change my install date up to this Friday.


if you give it a fair trial you should be pleasantly surprised. My wife and I were discussing this last night and I mentioned that there was a segment of TIVO users would not be happy unless it is a TIVO no matter what.

She asked me why, they do the same thing. I told her it was the software interface and some like the TIVO better. She understood then but we both decided we like the HR20 better _overall_. YMMV


----------



## Dignan

Was just discussing the Tivo issue with my wife last night as well. I told we were getting new receivers but they wouldn't be Tivo, she gave me a grimace. I then told her it was that or not get HD networks, she sighed, oh well.

I do hope I enjoy the HR20s, I'm rebuilding my whole system with a new AV receiver. I will finally have enough inputs and HDMI switching for 360, PS3, Apple TV, 2 HR20's and some older SD Tivos (which may retire too).

It does appear that the screaming masses have caused DirecTV to push software refinements, hopefully I've missed all the warts by waiting this long.


----------



## jmorgis

Dignan said:


> Was just discussing the Tivo issue with my wife last night as well. I told we were getting new receivers but they wouldn't be Tivo, she gave me a grimace. I then told her it was that or not get HD networks, she sighed, oh well.
> 
> I do hope I enjoy the HR20s, I'm rebuilding my whole system with a new AV receiver. I will finally have enough inputs and HDMI switching for 360, PS3, Apple TV, 2 HR20's and some older SD Tivos (which may retire too).
> 
> It does appear that the screaming masses have caused DirecTV to push software refinements, hopefully I've missed all the warts by waiting this long.


Dont count on HR20s, you WONT get one, you will get a HR21...See my other post. 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=381514 ..

I hope you dont get locals or use your OTA!!! Because that game is over. Hey Thanks Directv!!!

Good luck

JM


----------



## Dignan

jmorgis said:


> Dont count on HR20s, you WONT get one, you will get a HR21...See my other post.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=381514 ..
> 
> I hope you dont get locals or use your OTA!!! Because that game is over. Hey Thanks Directv!!!
> 
> Good luck
> 
> JM


I'm aware of the HR20-21 issues, not a problem for me. I can only receive 1 station OTA here (90 miles from LA). I do get my locals in HD on DirecTV, I just liked getting the DNS LA feeds on Tivo.


----------



## Paul E

jmorgis said:


> Dont count on HR20s, you WONT get one, you will get a HR21...See my other post.
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=381514 ..
> 
> I hope you dont get locals or use your OTA!!! Because that game is over. Hey Thanks Directv!!!
> 
> Good luck
> 
> JM


Humm.... I have to disagree. I had DirecTV come out to my house 3 weeks ago, and install a 5LNB dish and HR20. I was a HR10-250 and R10 user, and called them to upgrade to the newer HD package. I explained my need for an HR20, since D* doesn't carry all of the locals in HD (they don't carry NBC or PBS). The installer showed up with a NIB HR20 and the install went smooth as silk. I now happily use my trusty HR10-250 and the new HR20. Both are on OTA antennas as well as D* channel line up.


----------



## jmorgis

Paul E said:


> Humm.... I have to disagree. I had DirecTV come out to my house 3 weeks ago, and install a 5LNB dish and HR20. I was a HR10-250 and R10 user, and called them to upgrade to the newer HD package. I explained my need for an HR20, since D* doesn't carry all of the locals in HD (they don't carry NBC or PBS). The installer showed up with a NIB HR20 and the install went smooth as silk. I now happily use my trusty HR10-250 and the new HR20. Both are on OTA antennas as well as D* channel line up.


You one of the lucky few. I "asked" everyone to make sure to note on the order that a HR20 was needed. I even called the local installer to verify. THey just dont have them locally. And it seams nobody is offering to even try to get one. So for me, I have only one choice. Locals via satellite w/ HR21


----------



## denary

jmorgis said:


> You one of the lucky few. I "asked" everyone to make sure to note on the order that a HR20 was needed. I even called the local installer to verify. THey just dont have them locally. And it seams nobody is offering to even try to get one. So for me, I have only one choice. Locals via satellite w/ HR21


you can ask to see if you can pick one up locally...that is what I did. I grabbed one last night at Costco.

Called back to activate and they credited my account $199.

Granted I already had the new dish installed and that may be why this was an option for me. I had asked for it to be shipped directly to me, but the "system" wouldn't allow it.


----------



## newsposter

in case it hasnt been mentioned before, i just found out that if you perchance own a new dvr and dont sub to HD, you dont get OTA either! 

that's quite horrible indeed.


----------



## illspoken

Long time reader, first time poster. (Thanks for all of the useful information, guys!)

I've got two HR10-250s, been a DirecTV subscriber for just over three years at the Premier level + HD. Started subscription in DC, moved it to San Mateo, CA, and then San Francisco.

I followed the ordering instructions, and after calling twice on the same day to see what kind of CSR roulette I could play, I got the following offers, to replace one of the HR10-250s (I'm just going to deactivate the other after I empty it):

1) 100 for equipment and install + 20 shipping/handling + taxes or
2) 200 for equipment and install + taxes - a year of free HD (12 * 10 = 120) - six months of $10 off / mo (6 * 10 = 60)

(I'm unclear why anyone would take the first offer, unless you don't have the money to pay the equipment cost up front.)

So, after taxes it was $237.56, and I'm getting $180 in programming credits over the next year, so it's about $60 to get one HR10 upgraded. It's not the best deal in the world, but I don't feel like pretending I'm going to cancel, and I consider it decent since I flaked on calling in when they were handing out candy and flowers to get people to upgrade, and $60 isn't a bad deal on a professional install, since I can't do the on-roof dish install myself right now because I broke my leg a month ago. 

Anyway, just FYI for the deal I got, and what people might expect to be able to get if they don't want to get pushy with Retention.

[Addendum]

OK, now I can see the order online, and it was 199 for the equipment + 99 for the install + 19.95 shipping + 18.61 taxes = 336.56 - 99 instacredit = 237.56.

Also, the earliest available install date right now is the 30th. :down:


----------



## logsend

I finally bit the bullet and called DTV to replace my HR10... Installer will be out Sunday! I got the $199 - 99 rebate offer. So $100 (+ tax) out of pocket for equipment. But I also got HD package free for 12 months & 3 months free Showtime. Of course - free dish, free installation, free S&H, etc. Not bad.


----------



## Jeff Ray

Logsend,

Did you have to make a 2 year commitment? My offer was inferior on all counts but I supposedly can cancel at any time.


----------



## milominderbinder

logsend said:


> I finally bit the bullet and called DTV to replace my HR10... Installer will be out Sunday! I got the $199 - 99 rebate offer. So $100 (+ tax) out of pocket for equipment. But I also got HD package free for 12 months & 3 months free Showtime. Of course - free dish, free installation, free S&H, etc. Not bad.


Click through each link in the Ordering Tips. If you have placed your order, you are on step 5. The last few steps are critical. In particular look at the check list you will be asked to sign and confirm everything on line ahead of time.

Also check out the Installation Guide. You can control so much. At the very least you will know how to test to make sure the installation and receiver is good before you sign for it.

Here are a couple more links from the HD DVR FAQ.

_What will I be asked to sign once the installation is complete?_
→ Installation Checklist ● Agreement

_Is there an easy way to get started?_
→ 5-Minute Quick Start ● *Undocumented HD DVR PLUS Tips & Tricks*

_What can help me transition from TiVo? How do I get Suggestions?_
→ TiVo Users Survival Guide ● Better Suggestions than TiVo!

Good Luck!

- Craig


----------



## mhn2

I had my free HD HDVR swap install on Wed. I have an antenna to get my locals OTA, so I asked the guy which model he brought. He looked at me like I was stupid and said "it's an HD DVR." I said, "I know, but there are 2 models, HR20 and HR21." He shrugged and went and got the box - an HR21-700. Then the guy left my old dish in pieces, some old cable, and an empty pack of cigarettes on the side of the house where he was working. He also left the box the new dish came in out in my yard by my mailbox. I called up D* because the HD channels weren't turned on yet. I said "cancel service" at the prompt to get to retention. I told the CSR what the installer did and that I wasn't happy with them. He was very apologetic and said they usually leave the old dish, but he should have told me about instead of leaving it laying in the yard. He reported it and said they would contact the local install company. He then turned on the HD channels and said he was giving me the HD package free for 12 months to compensate me for the inconvenience! :up::up::up:


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## jmgonzalez

2 HD receivers (I requested HR20, but got the usual disclaimer that it could be either HR20 or HR21)
Free Install
6 Months free - HD Acccess
2 year commitment (I've been with them since 2000 and don't plan on changing that)

Total cost: $0

I called today, and getting installed this Thursday

Also keeping my 2 HR10's and moving those elsewhere in the house


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## Adam1115

jmgonzalez said:


> 2 HD receivers (I requested H20, but got the usual disclaimer that it could be either H20 or H21)
> Free Install
> 6 Months free - HD Acccess
> 2 year commitment (I've been with them since 2000 and don't plan on changing that)
> 
> Total cost: $0
> 
> I called today, and getting installed this Thursday


Most people have been getting H20/21's for free.

It's the DVR's (HR20/21) that cost extra.

Why are you replacing an HR10 with a standard non-dvr receiver???


----------



## jmgonzalez

Adam1115 said:


> Most people have been getting H20/21's for free.
> 
> It's the DVR's (HR20/21) that cost extra.
> 
> Why are you replacing an HR10 with a standard non-dvr receiver???


Look again - I corrected my typo.

I also made sure to verify this on directv.com


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## mrjngsr

**upgrading. I have 2 hr10-250's. Might I ask the email address to send this email to and is it still effective as of today, Jan. 22, 2008?


----------



## mrjngsr

I mean email Milo has mentioned many time . .


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## mrjngsr

. . . in "Ordering Tips." Sorry for not getting this all in one post !!!!


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## mhn2

mrjngsr said:


> . . . in "Ordering Tips." Sorry for not getting this all in one post !!!!


FWIW, I just sent an email message to [email protected] about a basic service question. When they responded with:

"Thank you for writing. It's always a pleasure hearing from one of our long time and valued customers. On behalf of DIRECTV, I want to thank you for your ongoing support in our service."

I decided to ask them about swapping out my HR10-250 to the new HR2X-700. I mentioned that I loved my DirecTV service and wanted to expand my programming. I also mentioned that I was told when I bought the HR10-250 that I would be able to "upgrade" for little or no cost. They approved the upgrade and told me to call in to set it up.


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## philster20032003

I'll add my experience. 

I called DTV to talk about removing a receiver (H10-250) and to make a long story short after some incredibly cordial conversation the DTV rep said I qualified for a free replacement of my H10-250 with a HR20 and a free replacement of my H10 with a new H20. I also needed to accept a two year commitment which was no big deal to me. No shipping or cost at all to me. The DTV installer comes out, (WE) do the installs in like 30mins, they leave and all is good.

Now all my receivers receive MPEG4 format signal, get "ALL" the HD channels and this is a very happy customer.

I now have 

3 - HR20's
1 - H21

Its weird, I wasn't trying to upgrade or fangle new equip out of DTV, just wanted to dump off the H10-250 and next thing I know I'm exactly where I would have wanted to be in my own minds best case scenario. I guess signing up for another 2 years is OK, but I like DTV, I'm used to them, they have been good to me and I really, really like my HD viewing capacity and capability.


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## itzme

mhn2 said:


> FWIW, I just sent an email message to [email protected] about a basic service question. When they responded with:
> 
> "Thank you for writing. It's always a pleasure hearing from one of our long time and valued customers. On behalf of DIRECTV, I want to thank you for your ongoing support in our service."
> 
> I decided to ask them about swapping out my HR10-250 to the new HR2X-700. I mentioned that I loved my DirecTV service and wanted to expand my programming. I also mentioned that I was told when I bought the HR10-250 that I would be able to "upgrade" for little or no cost. They approved the upgrade and told me to call in to set it up.


Im still with an HR10-250. I'm a lomg-time customer and I'm wondering the best strategy to get the free upgrade like you did. But I also want what I hear some others are getting, such as the free HD Access for a year (or maybe its the HD Extras). I also want them to let me keep my HR10 until the OTA adapter comes out for the HR21. Am I getting greedy. Should I try that email or call (better odds one way or the other?). Lastly, when they wrote you back, did they give you special number or ticket # to refer to when you call?


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## jimb726

itzme said:


> Im still with an HR10-250. I'm a lomg-time customer and I'm wondering the best strategy to get the free upgrade like you did. But I also want what I hear some others are getting, such as the free HD Access for a year (or maybe its the HD Extras). I also want them to let me keep my HR10 until the OTA adapter comes out for the HR21. Am I getting greedy. Should I try that email or call (better odds one way or the other?). Lastly, when they wrote you back, did they give you special number or ticket # to refer to when you call?


There are a lot of stories indicating that the upgrades and freebies are starting to dry up a little. I think the best thing to do is call in and see what they will offer you. One piece of advice, I saw a thread on one of these boards where the guy called in and said "Cancel" to the voice prompt and they did it. You will see a lot of posts advising to say cancel at the prompt to get directly to retention. i think it might be prudent to start with the CSR and advance to a retention officer if the offer isnt what you were hoping for. Good Luck.


----------



## Mindless2

How can I confirm the specifics of my work order? I can confirm the order itself on the D* website, but not info re the dish or multiswitch.


----------



## OmarG

Called the installer to double-check that the HR20 on my work order was what I'd be getting and was told they have none in the warehouse. 

I called DirecTV and got a fantastic CSR who worked with me and offered to credit my account for $199 if I could find the receiver at retail. Install is still scheduled, but if I can't find a box, I'll have to push it back a week.

I've heard Costco has them, but I'm not a member. Any other suggestions? Would Circuit City/Best Buy have them? I don't want to order online and delay the install unless I have to.


----------



## Bovined

Just wanted to add my experience. Took 4 different calls over last couple of months but as always it just takes the right rep. 

First call was offered 100 bucks off HR20/21 and credits plus install. declined.

Second call was offered a straight swap but that they would take my HR10-250. declined.

Third call was a jackass and would not budge on 200 for HR20/21/ NO credits. decline, obviously.

4th call today with great rep who spoke to "manager" 4 times to get free HR20/21, keep HR10-250, 3 months HD extra free install. Zero dollars and installing on saturday.

Life is good. Just keep telling them that DishNetwork is offering their HD-DVR for free right now and that should help. Good Luck everybody!


----------



## newsposter

i searched this thread for the word new and got no hits (is that even possible).

But what are brand new subs getting as far as dvrs pricing these days?


----------



## bigpuma

newsposter said:


> i searched this thread for the word new and got no hits (is that even possible).
> 
> But what are brand new subs getting as far as dvrs pricing these days?


DirecTV will give an HD DVR for the normal price and provider other receivers free of charge. I am not sure of the limit. Also if they get a referral from a current customer both the new and current customers get $10 per month service credit for 5 months.


----------



## newsposter

interesting, i dont know why, but i expected a 'better' deal that existing subs are getting. Perhaps 100 bucks or closer to free. I'll have to tell my friend at least would get 50 each for us. ty


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## jimb726

newsposter said:


> interesting, i dont know why, but i expected a 'better' deal that existing subs are getting. Perhaps 100 bucks or closer to free. I'll have to tell my friend at least would get 50 each for us. ty


As nice as that sounds, unless you are out of your commitment, you have zero leverage with them. If you are out of commitment you can leave for another provider and they know it. If you have 18 months left on a commitment why would they offer you something better than the person they are enticing to come over. I dont think this is a D* thing, either. My cell company wont give me anything until my commitment is up, unless I am willing to restart a commitment.


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## newsposter

i assumed they would give a discount to entice a new customer to sign up for 2 years. If the list price is 199 for everyone, then there's not a lot of incentive to commit for 2 years.


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## RS4

newsposter said:


> i assumed they would give a discount to entice a new customer to sign up for 2 years. If the list price is 199 for everyone, then there's not a lot of incentive to commit for 2 years.


I think Jimb missed that you were talking about an offer for a new sub. I believe he thought you were looking for a deal for yourself.


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## bigpuma

RS4 said:


> I think Jimb missed that you were talking about an offer for a new sub. I believe he thought you were looking for a deal for yourself.


I don't believe the deal is any better for new subs than current customers except for the $50 referral deal. At least that was my experience when my friend signed up last month. They are offering a free DVR or a free HD receiver or the HD DVR for the standard price $199.


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## swannie

Here is the deal I got on Thurs. I made numerous calls to replace my 2 H10-250's and H10 HD receivers as I wanted to upgrade to MPEG4 and the new dish. After turning down 3 different offers I finally got a unbeleivable retention rep, she went up and beyond, I told there that I was looking hard at TimeWarner for cable, internet and phone as well as AT&T for Dish and DSL. I have my interenter with Time Warner not DTV. We talked for about 45 min on the phone going over options, we discussed the fact that I could not get OTA with the HR21 and she knew I was disappointed with that, I asked for at least one HR20 she doubted I would get one as they have no more left. We then discussed my protection plan and my need to keep it or not as I would be leasing instead of owning. After some very pleasant disucssion on her offers and what I felt was fair here is what I received! 2-HR21 and 2H20 or 21 not sure on the non DVR's for $152.00, this also included a new 6x12 switch, as we went over my receivers and that I needed at least a 6x12 as that is what I have now, free install, no renewal of contract, she also gave me HD free for one year $120 value, as well as a $10/month credit for one year $120 value. I again told her I would really was disappointed in the fact I was loosing my OTA. She thought for a minute, put me on hold for a minute and came back to me with this, she requested a replacement unit for the H10-250, she stated it broke and would send out a replacement under the protection plan, she tought that may arrive as a HR20, so the installer is coming on Monday with one HR21 and 2-HD receivers, the other DVR was shipped via fed ex as it is a replacement, well Fed Ex just left after dropping off a HR20 DVR to replace my "broken" H10-250, the unit looks in perfect condition. Still disappointed to be loosing my Tivo but so far so good on the transistion.


----------



## helmdawg

I am finally making the switch from my HR10-250 to the HR20-700. D-TV gave me the HR-20 or 21, dish etc... for $19.99. They also gave me HD access free for 1 year. They are coming out this friday, 2/8 for the install. I plan on calling the installer to see if I can get the HR20 versus HR21.


----------



## itzme

helmdawg said:


> I am finally making the switch from my HR10-250 to the HR20-700. D-TV gave me the HR-20 or 21, dish etc... for $19.99. They also gave me HD access free for 1 year. They are coming out this friday, 2/8 for the install. I plan on calling the installer to see if I can get the HR20 versus HR21.


Helmdawg, was that deal a result of your first call/inquiry about what they could offer you? Did you call or email? Any advice if I'm about to call (in addition to what Jimb726 advises above)? Has anyone gotten D-TV to agree to leave their HR-10 hooked up until the OTA adapter comes out for the HR21? That's what I want to do because I need OTA for PBS sub channels. I'd love to convince them to give me HD Access for a year and a $5 credit to offset 2 DVRs on one TV.


----------



## helmdawg

itzme said:


> Helmdawg, was that deal a result of your first call/inquiry about what they could offer you? Did you call or email? Any advice if I'm about to call (in addition to what Jimb726 advises above)? Has anyone gotten D-TV to agree to leave their HR-10 hooked up until the OTA adapter comes out for the HR21? That's what I want to do because I need OTA for PBS sub channels. I'd love to convince them to give me HD Access for a year and a $5 credit to offset 2 DVRs on one TV.


I did this deal on my first try. I told them that I also have comcast for my local sports and was contemplating keeping one provider. That is when the free stuff started flying. I also told the CSR (in retention) that I been paying the same price as others and getting less HD changes for the past few months since the MPEG 4 release.

I personally wanted the HR20 for astetic reasons, DVR online scheduling and the VOD feature. I may or may not get the HR20 but its not that big of a deal for me. Luckily, I get all my locals are available in my market (Philly).

Good luck!!


----------



## codespy

Had install this morning and called both DTV and install company requring OTA receiver. All the installer had in stock was HR21, no more HR20's.

In our market, CBS still has not signed with DTV, but they do have OTA digital feed.

Frustrated here in WI.


----------



## Bovined

Just wanted to let everyone know how my upgrade went...

Install came sat afternoon during a wicked and windy storm and was awesome as usual. Installed a new dish in the rear of the house instead of routing new lines underneath for my old HR10-250 which is now in the bedroom and waiting for a new TV 

Installed the HR21-700 in the main living room but did not have a new 5LNB slimline in the truck but hooked it up anyways to get me up and running. After the install he came back in a couple of hours with the dish and popped it up in as the storm was kicking up. All my locals I had OTA in my area were now coming in over the dish and looked great so I have no issues there.

The picture quality of both the SD and HD are great and the quantity of new HD channels is AWESOME. I wished it could be Tivo still but I will deal with it for the new content. Although I must say that after I learned there was no dual live buffers I almost called the whole thing off as that is the single feature I used more then anything on my previous Tivos but hopefully a software update adds the feature down the line.

Can't really complain for 0.00 dollars right?


----------



## jimb726

RS4 said:


> I think Jimb missed that you were talking about an offer for a new sub. I believe he thought you were looking for a deal for yourself.


Thats correct. Sorry.


----------



## 94SupraTT

I was offered 2 HR21s for $19.95, also $10 off my bill to offset the HDpak price for 12months. I asked what if I only wanted one, they said they would waive the shipping. They said it would be a swap. Most people seem to have been able to keep the receiver that was supposed to be swapped. Has anyone had to give up there receiver? I really don't want to I have video I need to pull of the Tivo.


----------



## joed32

94SupraTT said:


> I was offered 2 HR21s for $19.95, also $10 off my bill to offset the HDpak price for 12months. I asked what if I only wanted one, they said they would waive the shipping. They said it would be a swap. Most people seem to have been able to keep the receiver that was supposed to be swapped. Has anyone had to give up there receiver? I really don't want to I have video I need to pull of the Tivo.


If you are going to keep it activated or if you own it, there shouldn't be any problem keeping it. If it's leased and you deactivate it you will have to send it back.


----------



## 94SupraTT

generalpatton71 said:


> I don't get this "give back" crap. You don't need to give back anything. People get confused by the word "swap" in this situation. They have no need for them besides the fact that maybe a installer might just "find" a new receiver for himself :down: . Seriously don't give up any of your HR10.


They said they wanted the leased box. I'll call back and say I want the owned box swapped.


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## bsgoren

Here's my story...

After several months of waiting and going back and forth on whether to upgrade or not, we finally turned to "the dark side" after receiving an "ok" deal from D*TV (btw -- our HR10-250 has been messing up lately, and of course, our OTA locals' reception can be very frustrating at times, but shhhhh, don't tell D*TV that ). All the previous 3 times calling, inquiring about an "upgrade" to the new MPEG-4 system left me pretty upset from just plain unreasonable offers for my 8 years of dedicated D*TV service. 

Here's my deal:

* 1 Free HR21 HD DVR (to replace my HR10-250 in our family room), and I keep my HR10-250 as I did not buy it from D*TV.
* 1 add'l HR21 HD DVR for our master bedroom @ $149.95 + $19.95 shipping/handling
* $10/mo. programming credit for 6 months
* Free dish/accessories
* Free install

Then, because our installer never showed up for his 4-hour window appointment, I called D*TV and they contacted the installer (who sent 2 other technicians to come later the same day to install everything) and gave me another $100 credit for D*TV's "on time installation guarantee."
*
So, in the end, I should end up paying a total of $9.90 for the upgrade!*  Now, the only remaining question is whether or not we'll like the D*TV HD DVR as much as our beloved HR10-250 HD D*TiVo?????  Already, I do not like what I hear about the HR21 HD DVR not having the dual live buffers! :down:  I guess we'll find out soon.


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## codespy

Got an HR21 installed last Monday.

DTV is sending HR20 this week to swap out (Need OTA).

Last night, got "2nd phone call" (automated CSR used those words) from DTV for IRD upgrades per Hotpass. Had my first HR20 installed 10-1-07.

Total cost of upgrades- 3 month credit of HD service. Can't complain.


----------



## sk33t3r

jimb726 said:


> There are a lot of stories indicating that the upgrades and freebies are starting to dry up a little. I think the best thing to do is call in and see what they will offer you. One piece of advice, I saw a thread on one of these boards where the guy called in and said "Cancel" to the voice prompt and they did it. You will see a lot of posts advising to say cancel at the prompt to get directly to retention. i think it might be prudent to start with the CSR and advance to a retention officer if the offer isnt what you were hoping for. Good Luck.


Thats what I did yesterday. I already have a hr21, but I wanted showtime, so i can watch big brother after dark, well i called the normal number and asked for showtime since I have been a customer for wuite a long time, she said no free upgrade are available. I hung up and called back, and said CANCEL, its asked if i wanted to cancel service or an install, i said service and got a rep asap, and just asked him if i could get showtime added, since they are offinr it to new customers well i got it for 6 month, now we can watch big borter after dark which starts Tuesday. WOOHOO. Now I may try the free upgrade on my hr10-250.

oh an done of the tuners on this new hr21 is dead, so a new one is on the way,


----------



## RetroHarley

After reading all these threads this weekend and wanting to upgrade my 10-250, I called to negotiate today. Please know that I called last week and asked what I needed to do to get the new HD signals and the CSR said just the 5 LNB and the B Band converters.

Well, I called today to inform them that my CSR from last week was wrong. They couldn't explain why I was sent the B bands and told me I was right and needed a new box. The best offer I could get was $100 off the $199 which I rejected.

The CSR, which was my third one of the day, said she noted my account that I would need a box so I asked when my current plan was up, she said October.

Is this why I'm not getting the deals I'm reading here? Should I just keep trying or wait awhile?

Errrrr....


----------



## sk33t3r

I went to best buy and purchaed my own, I prefer to won my equipment rather than lease. I did get the new dish installed today and love all the HD channels, and my locals are in hd off the sat as well. The second tuner is dead but DTV is sending me a new one already.


----------



## newsposter

sk33t3r said:


> I went to best buy and purchaed my own, I prefer to won my equipment rather than lease. I did get the new dish installed today and love all the HD channels, and my locals are in hd off the sat as well. The second tuner is dead but DTV is sending me a new one already.


you're not the 1st person to make the mistake of lease/own at BB. You are leasing whether you know it or not

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...=hr21&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1186004963843

Product Features

* Prices shown are "lease upgrade fees." Additional $4.99/mo. lease fee applies for each DIRECTV Receiver you add. Programming commitment required. See terms.


----------



## mrjngsr

Can I record 2 programs at the same time while watching another recorded program from my list on the HR21?


----------



## bigpuma

mrjngsr said:


> Can I record 2 programs at the same time while watching another recorded program from my list on the HR21?


Yes.


----------



## DLiquid

joed32 said:


> If you are going to keep it activated or if you own it, there shouldn't be any problem keeping it. If it's leased and you deactivate it you will have to send it back.


I deactivated a leased HR10 about a month after I got an HR20 to replace it, and they didn't ask for the HR10 back. That was about three months ago.


----------



## DLiquid

DLiquid said:


> Thanks, the e-mail did the trick (I just clicked on Contact Us on their website). I received a reply with a PIN code. I then called in and got two HR20s for free. He said there was a problem with the computer system, so to do this he needed to charge my account $299 for the first HR20, plus $99 x 3 payments for the second HR20. He then credited my account $398 and canceled the second and third $99 payments, so the net cost to me is $0. I get to keep my two HR10s. The install of my new dish is scheduled for tomorrow. This did not require a new 2-year commitment. I have one year left on my commitment and he said this would not change. He made a note of this on the account.


I'm quoting myself to continue my story. My post above was from October. I just e-mailed again and got a PIN. I called and ordered my third HR20/HR21, this time replacing an SD TiVo. I'm paying $99+shipping+tax, and getting HD service free for 12 months, so the net cost to me is about $10. I did have to start a new 2-year comittment this time. This deal was fine with me, since I didn't really feel like exerting more effort for something better.


----------



## LlamaLarry

I am about to help my dad enter the HR2* for cheap rotisserie tomorrow. He bought his first HDTV yesterday (42" Visio LCD for $950 at Costco) and is now in the hunt for HD sources. First call today resulted in $199+$19.95 with install in three weeks, but she offered to waive the $80 install fee (???). This offer is the total suck compared to my 2 HR20's for $19.95 with install the next week. 

I was a little surprised since he is a 4+ year, auto pay subscriber that has never gotten a freebie from DirecTV. I guess I'll give it a whirl tomorrow and have him try the email route as well.

In the mean time I hooked up my old HR10 and an upconverting SD DVD to tide him over. I suppose if it ever gets warm I could hang the dish they replaced when they put up the slimline.


----------



## RetroHarley

*The Ongoing Saga:*

Response (Samya Y) 02/12/2008 09:54 AM 
Dear Mr. *****,

Thanks for writing us back and requesting us to call you about your equipment upgrade. I just wanted to let you know that we received your email and I have forwarded it to a specialist who will research your email and follow up with you. Please note that due to high volume it may take a few days for a specialist to contact you. For immediate assistance, please call us at 1-800-531-5000.

Lastly, I noticed you are eligible for an upgrade of your MPEG-2 HD receiver to an MPEG-4 HD receiver (installation charges may apply). With an MPEG-4 HD receiver and HD Access you'll be able to see our expanded lineup of HD programming.

To take advantage of this special offer, please call us at 1-800-531-5000.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to directv.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Samya Y.
Employee ID 100171296
DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## RetroHarley

*RESOLVED* 

After receiving the email below, I called and got a *FREE* HR2* (TBD), free installation, $10 a month credit on my bill for the next 12 months and free OTA attachment when it's released (early March). I'm happy and thanks to all that posted, it really helped in my handling of this matter.

Response (Dulcenia C) 02/13/2008 08:57 AM 
Dear Mr. *****,

Thanks for writing and for your interest in getting the new HD channels. We appreciate your business and we want to keep you as a customer. We'd like to speak with you to help you get the equipment you're looking for at the best possible price, so we've set up a special phone line with a PIN number that you can use to reach our team directly.

Call us at 800-824-9081 between 6:05 am and 1:00 am ET daily to find out what equipment offer is available. When the system asks for a Personal ID Number (PIN) enter **** (this PIN is good for five days). We're looking forward to talking to you!

Thanks again for writing and giving us a chance to respond to your concerns. Please stay tuned to directv.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

Dulcenia C.
Employee ID 100251590
DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## DLiquid

They ended up sending me an HR20-100, which surprised me since I thought they weren't shipping those anymore. I don't have OTA in this room, so I didn't really have a preference. It's "factory reconditioned," which seems kind of lame on a new order but whatever, the thing is basically free.

What was annoying is that it didn't come with any cables (HDMI, component, phone, etc.) or B-band converters. They are going to send me the converters, but they said there is no way for them to send the cables. One CSR even insisted that these units don't come with cables, and that I'd need to get them at BestBuy . Luckily the only cables I really need are HDMI and phone, which I already had extras of.


----------



## Dmtalon

DLiquid said:


> They ended up sending me an HR20-100, which surprised me since I thought they weren't shipping those anymore. I don't have OTA in this room, so I didn't really have a preference. It's "factory reconditioned," which seems kind of lame on a new order but whatever, the thing is basically free.
> 
> What was annoying is that it didn't come with any cables (HDMI, component, phone, etc.) or B-band converters. They are going to send me the converters, but they said there is no way for them to send the cables. One CSR even insisted that these units don't come with cables, and that I'd need to get them at BestBuy . Luckily the only cables I really need are HDMI and phone, which I already had extras of.


Since you didn't really need the HR20 (and OTA) I would consider sending it back for an unopened box. Why should you have to supply the cables?


----------



## RetroHarley

*COMPLETED* 

Installer was here at 11:00 AM, within the 8-12 window. Installed the new 5 LNB dish and a new HR21-700 receiver. I moved the HR 10-250 up to my office and we tested the system. Oops, no signal on 119, he went up and replaced one of the LNBs and voila, we are up and running.

No charge for any of the equipment or services plus a $10 a month credit on my bill for the next 12 months.

Gotta go watch all my new HD channels now!


----------



## DLiquid

Dmtalon said:


> Since you didn't really need the HR20 (and OTA) I would consider sending it back for an unopened box. Why should you have to supply the cables?


I considered it, but I think the reconditioned units are pretty common, and as I said I have the cables I need lying around. Plus it's nice to have a third HR20. I use OTA on my other two HR20s, so if one of them breaks and D* replaces it with an HR21, I'll be able move this HR20 to one of those rooms.


----------



## ipohopper

Directv just called me tonight and asked if I was aware of the upcoming deadline to receive HD programming. I played dumb. I've been reading the forum for a while now so I know all about all the offers, etc. I figured I'd just wait it out until they came to me with offers. Long story short they said they are upgrading all my equipment (I currently have three HR10-250's) to new HD DVR's (HR2*?) and my old dish to 5LNB all at zero charge. Install scheduled for wed.


----------



## 94SupraTT

Bit the bullet last night. I'm getting a HR20 (so they say) and free HD programming for a year at no charge. I don't have to give them any of my HR10s. I'm deactivating my R10 so I'll have 2 HR10s and 1 HR20. I'm just glad I don't have to give up any HR10s and they are still giving me the same deal they would if I were to give them one of my HR10s.


----------



## Budget_HT

ipohopper said:


> Directv just called me tonight and asked if I was aware of the upcoming deadline to receive HD programming. I played dumb. I've been reading the forum for a while now so I know all about all the offers, etc. I figured I'd just wait it out until they came to me with offers. Long story short they said they are upgrading all my equipment (I currently have three HR10-250's) to new HD DVR's (HR2*?) and my old dish to 5LNB all at zero charge. Install scheduled for wed.


Where do you live?


----------



## Krookut

Just called, swapping out my HR10 for an HR2*, no charge. I'd really like to keep the HDD though as I replaced it myself when the original died, don't have the old one anymore to swap in, wonder if they'd notice.


----------



## kkluba

LlamaLarry said:


> I am about to help my dad enter the HR2* for cheap rotisserie tomorrow. He bought his first HDTV yesterday (42" Visio LCD for $950 at Costco) and is now in the hunt for HD sources. First call today resulted in $199+$19.95 with install in three weeks, but she offered to waive the $80 install fee (???). This offer is the total suck compared to my 2 HR20's for $19.95 with install the next week.
> 
> I was a little surprised since he is a 4+ year, auto pay subscriber that has never gotten a freebie from DirecTV. I guess I'll give it a whirl tomorrow and have him try the email route as well.
> 
> In the mean time I hooked up my old HR10 and an upconverting SD DVD to tide him over. I suppose if it ever gets warm I could hang the dish they replaced when they put up the slimline.


Larry - Is Verizon Fios, Comcast or anyone other competition happening in your father's area? I find that to be the biggest factor in how D* decides what deal you get.

Last month I had two HR20's and the 5 LNB installed for free. Sure I've been with D* for 12 years and pay them $100 or more a month but the real reason I think I got the deal was the ATT UVerse flyer I got in the mail last week. D* is willing to give up some free equipment to keep you from jumping ship to new competition.


----------



## LlamaLarry

kkluba said:


> Larry - Is Verizon Fios, Comcast or anyone other competition happening in your father's area? I find that to be the biggest factor in how D* decides what deal you get.


No, he lives on my farm and we both live in the sticks, nothing but OTA comes to our houses. 

He ended up taking what to me was a lame deal, but $199 for the receiver+ shipping + tax. They kicked back $10/mo for 12 mos and have the guy coming Monday. Not great by any means, but I might have screwed up by letting him see HD content in his living room. 

This weekend I am going to run all the new lines to get this ready for the installer. His old MS is in a crawlspace under his house and something tells me that the installer isn't planning on going under there, so I will be labeling all the lines to speed my hookup.


----------



## kkluba

Probably Directv can see by address and zip that your in the country and that your only other choice is Dish and D* probably knows they aren't offering anything better? All guessing of course but it would stand to reason that with little competition there is little motivation to give a better deal. I would bet money there is some marketing database that CSR's use that assigns a value determining the level of deal you get. That database would of course be driven by competition in market, longevity of customer, how much customer spends and so on.


----------



## easy-e

"I would like to upgrade my HR10-250 for an HR20 in order to see the new HD channels that are rolling out. When I received the HR10, I was told that I would be able to swap it for an mpeg-4 HD DVR for little or no cost. How do I go about getting this price? If at all possible, I would like to keep my HR10 so as to watch OTA HD locals as well as recorded content I have not been able to watch. Please advise your thoughts."

Guess I'll see if I get lucky. I haven't yet called in...


----------



## Lopey

Do I have to have a HR10 to get the upgrades?? I currently have the
SD-40's and want to upgrade to HD. I called and got the $199 + 19.99 plus 9.99/month.


----------



## tivoboy

Well, I got call last night saying, that "starting March your equipment will be useless" and we need to upgrade you, NO CHARGE to you for new dish and new equipment." So, I played along (even though I have the 5LNB dish and an H20-700 with ota, in addition to our H10-250)

Rep took my information, was really a bit stupid and then said, after confirming all my data, "oh, I see you are already upgraded" to which I said, yeah I have the DISH, but my H10-250 needs to be upgraded, I'd like to upgrade to a new H20-700 so I can get the NEW CHANNELS" etc.

She said I would have to call some 800# to discuss that, and I said "but, WHY did you call me and take 10 minutes of my time for nothing, I thought you said I needed to be upgraded!"

that was the end of the call. It really is a pain in the butt.


----------



## ipohopper

Budget_HT said:


> Where do you live?


San Jose, CA


----------



## easy-e

Here's the reply I received...

Thanks for writing to us. I understand that you are interested in upgrading your current HR 10-250 receiver. For immediate assistance in checking your eligibility for the swap, kindly call us at 1-800-531-5000 and a customer service representative will happily be available for you. The representative you will be speaking with will also be able to confirm if you can still keep your existing HD DVR receiver.

Thanks again for writing and stay tuned to DIRECTV.com for the latest news and information about our services.

Sincerely,

...Do you think I'll get it installed for $19.99?


----------



## DougWDW

Not a huge poster, but longtime frequenter of these forums. Here's my story...

I have been a DirecTV customer since 1995. I have had Tivo since the HDVR2 was released, and then upgraded to the HR10-250 in 2005. Back in November 2006, when 6.3 rolled originally rolled out and caused all the audio dropout problems, I called DirecTV to vent a little. I was offered a $10 discount for 12 months, and told that I could get the new HD DVR for no cost. I explained that I wanted my "Tivo", and was not ready for the new DVR. The rep told me she would note the account and that I could get the free HD DVR when I was ready. Fast forward to January 2008. I was getting the itch to start watching all the NEW HD channels, so I called DirecTV. The rep said that while he sees the notes, that "promotion" is no longer being offered, and the HD DVR would cost me $199. I politely ended the call, and began shopping around. While Brighthouse (local cable) does not have 100 HD channels, they do have some good ones - Food Network, A&E, HGTV, etc, so if I had to give up my Tivo to get more HD, I was prepared to switch. Note that I have a good friend who received the free HD DVR deal as others in this forum. I called, prepared to cancel after 13 years with DirecTV. The rep would not budge on the $99, and said nobody receives the HD DVR for free. I told her about my friend, and she said my friend lied to me if he told me it was free. I then cancelled and had it effective at the end of my billing period (3 weeks) to give me time to add Brighthouse. The very next day, "Customer Satisfaction" called me to ask what they could do to keep me as a customer. I told them my story, and was offered the HD DVR + 5 LNB Dish (zero cost), another $10 discount for one year, plus one year free HD Access and DVR fees. I accepted, and just had the HD DVR installed. While I miss Tivo, so far my experience with the HR21-200 has been 100% positive. The plethora of HD channels is AMAZING, and I am once again a satisfied DirecTV customer. I still have my de-activated HR10-250 (in case the HR21 starts acting up), but so far so good with the HR21. Wanted to share my thoughts and experience for others like me that prefer Tivo, but want to new HD channels. My advice about switching from the HR10 to the HR2X - go for it!!


----------



## rcgus

Just got off the phone w/ DTV after spending the last hr reading these posts. I ended up w/ 2 HD receivers and a new H21 and an upgrade to the 5 LNB dish. Total cost was zero. :up: They did however tell me they wanted both my HD receiver and HD tiVo back that they were leased. I told them "negative" since I bought both of them off ebay 2 years ago. What a scam they tried to pull. After I told them that they said they would research it and let me know. Install is scheduled for this Tuesday. They will need to pry those units from the grip of my dead hands.


----------



## easy-e

So...just got off the phone...after working the rep for a little bit and pleading my case about being an early adopter who spent 1K for the machine, I was able to get it knocked down a hundred, then after a little more working, $125 + $10/month off my bill for 6 months and no installation charge. 

I guess it's pretty fair. I should be able to keep my HR10. I made sure to get the rep name and ID in case something goes awry during the install and that is not the case. 

Looks like it is the HR21, but if I can keep my HR10, I guess I can get my OTA locals that way. Worse case scenario is that I figure out a way to transmit my EyeTV hybrid recordings from my Mac to my HDTV...


----------



## sk33t3r

Well im on my second hr21. The first one lost most of the HD channels within a week of getting it. DTV sent me a second hr21 this time 200 where the first was a 700 and all is fine thus far, its only been 2 days. I think the menu's are a lot slower than the tivo but with all the hd programming I can over lolok the slow menu's. Next I guess I will do teh hr10-250 upgrade, since I purchased this one on my own.


----------



## LlamaLarry

Well, my dad's install ($199+S/H+tax - ($10/mo*12)) went well, albeit slowly (3.5 hours). The installers did not instill much faith in me when they arrived, but all said and done they did an excellent job and did not charge for the modification of the existing DirecWay pole mount or crawling under the house the replace the MS.

He ended up with a HR21-700 (black) which is nice and shiny but boy does it show fingerprints. I got him all set up, but need to go back tomorrow to finish running his ethernet.

Hopefully he can get a better deal on replacing his other 2 boxes.


----------



## sk33t3r

Yeah it does show prints but damn is PURDY!!! I cant get charged extra for the upgrade MS either. Now I guess I wll try the free upgrade for my hr10-250


----------



## kkluba

DougWDW said:


> Not a huge poster, but longtime frequenter of these forums. Here's my story...
> 
> I have been a DirecTV customer since 1995. I have had Tivo since the HDVR2 was released, and then upgraded to the HR10-250 in 2005. Back in November 2006, when 6.3 rolled originally rolled out and caused all the audio dropout problems, I called DirecTV to vent a little. I was offered a $10 discount for 12 months, and told that I could get the new HD DVR for no cost. I explained that I wanted my "Tivo", and was not ready for the new DVR. The rep told me she would note the account and that I could get the free HD DVR when I was ready. Fast forward to January 2008. I was getting the itch to start watching all the NEW HD channels, so I called DirecTV. The rep said that while he sees the notes, that "promotion" is no longer being offered, and the HD DVR would cost me $199. I politely ended the call, and began shopping around. While Brighthouse (local cable) does not have 100 HD channels, they do have some good ones - Food Network, A&E, HGTV, etc, so if I had to give up my Tivo to get more HD, I was prepared to switch. Note that I have a good friend who received the free HD DVR deal as others in this forum. I called, prepared to cancel after 13 years with DirecTV. The rep would not budge on the $99, and said nobody receives the HD DVR for free. I told her about my friend, and she said my friend lied to me if he told me it was free. * I then cancelled and had it effective at the end of my billing period (3 weeks) to give me time to add Brighthouse.* The very next day, "Customer Satisfaction" called me to ask what they could do to keep me as a customer. I told them my story, and was offered the HD DVR + 5 LNB Dish (zero cost), another $10 discount for one year, plus one year free HD Access and DVR fees. I accepted, and just had the HD DVR installed. While I miss Tivo, so far my experience with the HR21-200 has been 100% positive. The plethora of HD channels is AMAZING, and I am once again a satisfied DirecTV customer. I still have my de-activated HR10-250 (in case the HR21 starts acting up), but so far so good with the HR21. Wanted to share my thoughts and experience for others like me that prefer Tivo, but want to new HD channels. My advice about switching from the HR10 to the HR2X - go for it!!


Cancelling with an effective date 3 weeks out is brilliant. I've read so many rant/posts of people that don't get what they want with D* first level CSR's and end up cancelling only to find the grass isn't really greener..

This gave customer retention time to do what they are piad to do and frankly the CSR that let you cancel should have connected you to retention anyways.


----------



## bigpuma

kkluba said:


> Cancelling with an effective date 3 weeks out is brilliant. I've read so many rant/posts of people that don't get what they want with D* first level CSR's and end up cancelling only to find the grass isn't really greener..
> 
> This gave customer retention time to do what they are piad to do and frankly the CSR that let you cancel should have connected you to retention anyways.


You can also suspend an account with D* for up to 6 months so that is another way to try out cable before actually cancelling.


----------



## jimb726

bigpuma said:


> You can also suspend an account with D* for up to 6 months so that is another way to try out cable before actually cancelling.


IIRC those 6 months also count time off of your commitment, do they not?


----------



## kkluba

bigpuma said:


> You can also suspend an account with D* for up to 6 months so that is another way to try out cable before actually cancelling.


Can you suspend while under contract?


----------



## bigpuma

I don't know if the time counts against your commitment.


----------



## incog-neato

Suspend time does NOT count towards committment.


bigpuma said:


> I don't know if the time counts against your commitment.


----------



## incog-neato

They do not.


jimb726 said:


> IIRC those 6 months also count time off of your commitment, do they not?


----------



## jimb726

incog-neato said:


> They do not.


Good info. I thought I remembered reading something somewhere that the first suspension did count towards your commitment. Thanks for clarifying it.


----------



## dswallow

jimb726 said:


> Good info. I thought I remembered reading something somewhere that the first suspension did count towards your commitment. Thanks for clarifying it.


Some people had reported that the commitment period did continue to run; likely as an oversight to whatever automated system manages the commitment period... this was well over a year ago. No idea if the issue is now fixed or still exists.


----------



## ipohopper

Installer just left a few hours ago. He installed new Dish, three HR21-700's, new multiswitch and did not ask for my three hr10-250's. He said I could probably sell them on eBay for some money. Everything was at zero charge to me.


----------



## Ozam

Having finally given up on any prospect of my Hr10-250 having much of a future (the inconsistency of my local OTA reception was driving me nuts more than the lack of new HD offerings!!), I finally called D* today to upgrade. This call was not easy. I love TIVO! Call me a zealot, but I think it is one of the best consumer products ever built. Much to my amazement, D* said that I was entitled to a free equipment upgrade including new 5 lnb antenna. When asked about any additional commitment, the CSR replied "no, this does not require the two year commitment." Hopefully they will not take my old box as I plan on using it to replace an older Hughes Tivo. This all sounds too good to be true, but my fingers are crossed.


----------



## DWDM

I called today to look into upgrading my HR10-250 (owned) to the HR20/21. I was offered the upgrade (HD-DVR receiver, dish, install, 2yr commitment) for S&H only. However, the CSR told me I had to return the HR10-250 as part of the "swap". If I want to keep the HR10-250 I would have to pay $99. I still want to keep my HR10-250 around for all the programming I have recorded and also as an extra DVR.

Are the installers/DTV taking back the HR10-250's? Should I take a chance with the free upgrade and hope they let me keep my HR10-250?


----------



## 94SupraTT

Installer was done at noon today. So far so good. This HR21 is a SHARP looking unit. DOD, the ability to stream video, pics, and music to it is NICE. I do nice DLB however all the new HD channels and other features almost offset the loss. Supposedly the USB add-on for OTA will be out the end of next month so thats a plus. All in all I am surprised at how much I actually like this thing. I got to keep my HR10 too.


----------



## PeteB

Do any of these DirecTV boxes (HR20, 21) have 2 buffers like the HR10-250? That is the main reason I won't switch. I live to flip back and forth between 2 channels and watch what I missed.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

no


----------



## spec2

My commitment expires on Jun 25. Is it too soon now to try and get a free or near free upgrade to a HR21 or do I need to wait it out until the summer?


----------



## dswallow

spec2 said:


> My commitment expires on Jun 25. Is it too soon now to try and get a free or near free upgrade to a HR21 or do I need to wait it out until the summer?


The expiration of any current commitment has nothing to do with what they will or will not offer you. Just give them a call now.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

I liked this quote in PC Mag article 

_"I'll never love a DVR the way I loved my TiVo. But sometimes you have to abandon the things you love when technology moves on. I really wanted those new MPEG4 HD channels, and old TiVo couldn't keep up."_


----------



## bsgoren

kkluba said:


> Cancelling with an effective date 3 weeks out is brilliant. I've read so many rant/posts of people that don't get what they want with D* first level CSR's and end up cancelling only to find the grass isn't really greener..
> 
> This gave customer retention time to do what they are piad to do and frankly the CSR that let you cancel should have connected you to retention anyways.


I always found that it's best to just skip D*TV Customer Service to begin with, and go straight to D*TV Customer Retention. You just call (800) 600-8977, press or say 1, and then say "CANCEL." Within seconds, a D*TV Customer Retention Rep answers your call, and you can plead you case.


----------



## chadfetter

Ok, here is where I am at. They don't appear to be willing to improve upon this offer for me. Any suggestions on how to get the second HR2x free would be greatly appreciated.

I currently have two HR10-250's owned and installed in my house. I have another HR10-250 in my basement with a bad HD. I called the Retention department and spoke to a supervisor, and this is the best they say they can do:
One free HR2x receiver
One HR2x receiver at $199
One year of free HD content
Free installation.

I would like to talk them into replacing the second receiver for free, in fact I would like to convice them to give me a third for the one in my basement too, but that is probably asking for too much.

I just can't seem to get them to budge on this last offer though. Any suggestions?


----------



## Anubys

chadfetter said:


> I just can't seem to get them to budge on this last offer though. Any suggestions?


take it...you're paying $80 for 2 HR20/21...that's a good deal...


----------



## utvnut

Hang in there if you have the time. I have 3 hr20s and paid zero, $19, and zero. 
I still have one active hr10-250 but will use it until I get another HD television and then expect a free replacement.


----------



## chadfetter

I kind of assumed that they would be more aggressive on trying to replace them both for free especially because I am not under any contract right now. My contract has expired.


----------



## easy-e

easy-e said:


> So...just got off the phone...after working the rep for a little bit and pleading my case about being an early adopter who spent 1K for the machine, I was able to get it knocked down a hundred, then after a little more working, $125 + $10/month off my bill for 6 months and no installation charge.
> 
> I guess it's pretty fair. I should be able to keep my HR10. I made sure to get the rep name and ID in case something goes awry during the install and that is not the case.
> 
> Looks like it is the HR21, but if I can keep my HR10, I guess I can get my OTA locals that way. Worse case scenario is that I figure out a way to transmit my EyeTV hybrid recordings from my Mac to my HDTV...


Forgot to check back in. Was able to keep my HR10 and they actually gave me a HR20! 2 for 2! I have one line in on my HR20 and one line in my HR10 so I can get programming from both and a virtual DLB, at least for now. Hopefully Sunday Ticket will be still be in HD for HR10 for one more year!!!!


----------



## JohnTivo

I've been out of "contract" for two years now. I pushed to get more for free, but with only one HR10 in the house, they didn't want to give me much.

Here is the deal I got:

Free HR20/21
Free HD Receiver
$199 HR20/21
$99 HD Receiver
Along with a new dish and multiswitch.

I hate to see my Tivo's go, but content is king. I guess I could have gone to cable and purchased TIVO's... but with SDV and the initial cost, it didn't appeal to me. I am keeping my HR10 subbed for awhile at least... sigh. I can't let go just yet.


----------



## vikefan

DTV will not promise me an HR20 so I told them no I don't want the free upgrade. In my area they don't offer HD locals so I need the the HR20. Lady keeps telling me that they can't promise one so I plan on staying with the HR10-250 until the very end. I do hope ST is still in mpeg 2 next season


----------



## ebonovic

vikefan said:


> DTV will not promise me an HR20 so I told them no I don't want the free upgrade. In my area they don't offer HD locals so I need the the HR20. Lady keeps telling me that they can't promise one so I plan on staying with the HR10-250 until the very end. I do hope ST is still in mpeg 2 next season


All extended sports packages (including Sunday Ticket)... are MPEG-4 for the 2008 seasons and beyond.

Soon the AM21 will be available for those with an HR21, that want OTA access. Definently will be available before Sunday Ticket season


----------



## vikefan

Good to know that. I will call back in August.


----------



## incog-neato

You are just referring only to the HD optional portion of NFLST (Superfan) being MPEG4 correct? "Standard Def" NFLST is still available without new equipment. Your message makes it seem like NFLST (SD) is also MPEG4.



ebonovic said:


> All extended sports packages (including Sunday Ticket)... are MPEG-4 for the 2008 seasons and beyond.
> 
> Soon the AM21 will be available for those with an HR21, that want OTA access. Definently will be available before Sunday Ticket season


----------



## ebonovic

incog-neato said:


> You are just referring only to the HD optional portion of NFLST (Superfan) being MPEG4 correct? "Standard Def" NFLST is still available without new equipment. Your message makes it seem like NFLST (SD) is also MPEG4.


Sorry... yes... just the HD piece of it.


----------



## stevecon

chadfetter said:


> Ok, here is where I am at. They don't appear to be willing to improve upon this offer for me. Any suggestions on how to get the second HR2x free would be greatly appreciated....


You said you had a second unit that has "a bad HD" I don't know exactly what that means, but it seems to me that if it is related to defective equipment, you could simply take out the Protection Plan on your equipment, etc. through DTV for about $6 / month. That $6 fee is the same regardless of how many receivers, dishes, switches, etc you have at your house. It even covers dish realignment due to storms/wind.

You'll have to wait 2 (maybe even 3) months to make a claim, but it should get you a new receiver. It's been a while since I've been here so others might be able to confirm or deny that the HR10-250 DVRs are no longer being provided. This means the new MPEG4 equipment would be provided as a replacement.

Good luck.


----------



## spec2

I made the call today. I'm happy with what they offered, though it's a standard deal:

Mostly Free HR21 ($20 shipping/handling fee) + new dish install
$10 discount per month for 12 months
6 months free HD service

2 year contract req, of course. I'm hoping I get a HR21-200 since it uses a Seagate drive. I'm not a big WD fan.

At any rate sure beats paying $180 at Costco and getting $0 discount or freebies.


----------



## jayerndl

stevecon said:


> It's been a while since I've been here so others might be able to confirm or deny that the HR10-250 DVRs are no longer being provided. This means the new MPEG4 equipment would be provided as a replacement.


I have the protection plan and my HR10-250 recently died and I can confirm that HR10-250s are no longer being provided as replacements. I even tried with customer retention and still no go. They did send me a brand new HR20 though (I thought I was getting a HR21 so I was happily suprised). Obviously there was no charge and no extension to my commitment.

Jay


----------



## stevecon

jayerndl said:


> I have the protection plan and my HR10-250 recently died and I can confirm that HR10-250s are no longer being provided as replacements. I even tried with customer retention and still no go. They did send me a brand new HR20 though (I thought I was getting a HR21 so I was happily suprised). Obviously there was no charge and no extension to my commitment.
> 
> Jay


I remember that being the case - but couldn't say for sure that DTV hadn't changed their replacement policies. I used to come here for my TiVO related hacks, etc. all the time.. while no doubt the TiVO UI is superior, I haven't missed my HR10-250 in many, many months. I still have more than a few 80 GB SD TiVOs, but hope that the MRV feature will catch up to the DTV DVR as previously hinted, as the TiVOs aren't getting any younger. Time will tell!


----------



## llarch

Here is the deal I just got;

Two HR21s, no cost
New 5LNB dish, no cost
Install, no cost
No charge for the HD Extra pack (at least for some time)
Was allowed to keep both my HR10s
No commitment at all

My first weekend's experience;

LIKES:

1. I like the media share function (but wish the video would play more than just Mpeg2)
2. The VOD function is kind of cool, a bit clunky, but better than nothing
3. Like the overall speed/perf
4. Really like the easy hard drive upgrade
5. Nice box design/appearance
6. Enjoying all the extra HD channels
7. PQ seems very good, native resolution pass-through must help
8. Like remote booking/scheduling
9. Looking forward to MRV.

DISLIKES:

1. The UI, in particular the location of functions, is a complete disaster (compared to TiVo). I know this may be a function of what I was used to, but wow, what a difference in the negative


OTHER:
Haven't really missed the DLBs, don't watch much sports.

Haven't recorded enough to comment on accuracy.

Haven't had them long enough to comment on stability, but so far so good.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

llarch said:


> 1. The UI, in particular the location of functions, is a complete disaster (compared to TiVo). I know this may be a function of what I was used to, but wow, what a difference in the negative


The funny thing is that after using the new UI, the TIVo UI on a machine I rarely use any longer seems clunky.

Please let us know what you think after a month


----------



## mas99

Im finally switching from my 10-250 to an HR 20 or 21. since I have OTA now with good reception and want to keep it, Ive planned to get an HR-20 (getting harder to find), but DTV will give me enough credits to make it worth buying). I have FIOS for internet, but they don't have MLB)

Here is my question: Is there any reason NOT go ahead and get the HR 20-700 and hook it up to my current cabling (after adding the BB Converters)? Would there be any reason to buy the HR21-700 or HR21-200 (Im not getting the 200 pro for now) and pay for the AM21 OTA when it comes out. Im worried about the reception on the AM21.

Are there any tradeoffs other than the total cost of the transition?


----------



## desulliv

Jebberwocky! said:


> The funny thing is that after using the new UI, the TIVo UI on a machine I rarely use any longer seems clunky.
> 
> Please let us know what you think after a month


I agree. I enjoy being able to browse through my playlist without losing what I'm currently watching. Turning CC on and off is a snap and I don't have to go away from what I'm watching to do it. I've been pleasantly surprised. I still use my Tivo HR10-250 as a backup downstairs, but rarely use it. I do use the one in the bedroom and am slightly annoyed when I have to go away from watching a recorded show to browse the guide.


----------



## jcoulter

Just called to replace my 10-250. The last straw was coming home and finding out the Bristol race was not recording. It's been rebooting alot lately but I didn't want to give up Tivo. Anyway when I called Directv at the voice prompt I said "new receiver". I immediately was speaking with a CSR who told me I would be getting a new HD DVR along with a 5 LNB dish and since I own my 10-250 I could keep it. She said nothing about a two year commintment and I see nnothing on the website.

The order says "Swap Replace HR20 IRD". Does that mean an HR20 for sure?


----------



## newsposter

hr20 are hard to get but with the ota solution, at least hr21 isnt the bummer it once was


----------



## jcoulter

I get my locals OTA not thru D*. Does it matter what receiver I get?


----------



## Avenger

Finally got my HD Plus DVR, after months of waiting!

I had negotiated a new Ka/Ku dish and an HR2X for $99 last fall. At that point, installs were backlogged for months, and I scheduled mine for December 31.

Well, December 31 came, and the installer showed up with an HR21 and the dish. He took one look at my snow-covered roof (almost 100" of snow in Madison, WI this winter!), where the existing dish was living, and decided that the dish swap could NOT be done at that point. So we rescheduled for three weeks later -- hoping that we'd get some melt in the interim.

Well, the day of the rescheduled install, we got 7 more inches of snow -- so that install was off. I finally rescheduled again recently, and the fellow (different than the first time) came this last Friday. Imagine my surprise when he walked in here with an HR20! The install was quick and painless, and he let me keep the HR10-250. Interestingly, he did say that he had just had a meeting at work that morning, and that they were told that DirecTV is insisting that the installers collect EVERY HR10 when swapping them out with the new HD DVR's, whether leased or owned. But when I told him I planned to keep mine, he didn't push the issue any further.

When the installer got here, we were in the midst of a pouring-down rainstorm, so he did not put up the Ka/Ku dish. Instead, he left it here with me -- which made me happy, because I like being the only person who walks around on my roof and drives screws through it. Although it was a first-class PITA to aim that thing when I put it up today.

My impression of the HR20 so far -- I like it VERY much; much more than I thought I would. The VOD thing is very cool and cutting edge. Active weather is nice. The UI strikes me as refined and updated, and I find it to be reasonably intuitive. I'll miss my HR10, which continues to run in boat anchor mode so the wife and I can watch the 300 shows stored on it over the next few years or so! But it seems to me that they've got darned-near every functionality of the HR10 in this box, plus some very cool new stuff. And being able to schedule recordings remotely without hacking the box is quite nice. And maybe, just maybe, it will actually record _Survivor_ when I want it to, instead of greeting me with some damned message about someone in my household changing the season pass!


----------



## marcelh

I am also finally upgrading did not want to give up my HR10-250's I have 3
Was able to get free Dish, Install and 3 HD DVR's I assume HR20 or 21's
Had to get a 2 year commitment but I get to keep all my old equipment since
I owned it all and they also said since I own all my equipment the ones they are
sending me I will also own!!! Am very surprised about all this!!
Does this sound like a Good Deal?????


----------



## Anubys

jcoulter said:


> I get my locals OTA not thru D*. Does it matter what receiver I get?


yes...the HR20 has OTA tuners built in...the HR21 does not (but as mentioned above, there is an OTA solution...but it means you have a second box for OTA)...

so in your case, the HR20 is the better option if you can get it...


----------



## 94SupraTT

I've had my HR21 for almost a month now and I've gotten used to it. I still strongly dislike the fact that it doesn't have DLB however I absolutely LOVE the speed of the device. Not having to wait 5minutes for it to add a season pass is great. The UI took some getting used to however its not as bad as it was now that I am getting used to it. I also miss the automatic jumpback built into the Tivo when fast forwarding and stopping. As others have stated the "active" channel is nice and its a quick way to check the forecast. The MediaShare feature is also nice but a work in progress. Hopefully trickplay is figured out by a developer that doesn't use Viiv. The audio dropouts though are about to be a deal breaker. Its obsurd how many I am getting. They are sending out a tech on Tuesday. I hope he says its a bad unit and I get a refurbed HR20.  I need OTA now.


----------



## kkluba

llarch said:


> Here is the deal I just got;
> 
> Two HR21s, no cost
> New 5LNB dish, no cost
> Install, no cost
> No charge for the HD Extra pack (at least for some time)
> Was allowed to keep both my HR10s
> *No commitment at all*


llarch,

Some CSR may have told you no committment but they are wrong. I guarantee you now have a two year contract.


----------



## RMSko

I haven't been in this forum in a while and I was shocked (and saddened) to see how inactive it has become (only a handful of topics vs. what used to be pages). Anyway, I still do have one HR10-250 (as well as 3 HR20s), but am wondering if anyone knows when my HR10 will no longer be able to view the HD network channels. I guess I'm asking whether there is a known date when NO HD sat channels will be able to be watched on the HR10?

On a related note, I got a strange call from D* recently. I already upgraded my HR10 to an HR20 a long time ago, and even got D* to send me a free second HR20, however, they recently called to tell me they noticed I still am using an HR10 and would be willing to swap out that for an HR20, all at no cost to me. That's how I got my third HR20.


----------



## llarch

kkluba said:


> llarch,
> 
> Some CSR may have told you no committment but they are wrong. I guarantee you now have a two year contract.


Just checked, my previous statement was correct, I have no commitment.


----------



## Tom_Parker

I've already got an HR 20 & 21 - now I'm deciding what to do with my lifetime TiVo 10-250. We have excellent OTA of the Portland stations, and I'm thinking I'll just use it to output to a SD TV up in my room. 

Is there a better use for this device, or should I just go ahead and de-activate it? I already have a dual tuner Directivo in my room now...this would just give me a lot more storage. I'd be using the (gasp) composite video into the TV.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

how can you have a lifetime on a 10-250?


----------



## Tom_Parker

Jebberwocky! said:


> how can you have a lifetime on a 10-250?


I bought it and paid up front.


----------



## dswallow

Tom_Parker said:


> I bought it and paid up front.


You no longer have lifetime DVR service on your HR10-250. You have lifetime DVR service on your DirecTV account. It's not attached to the receiver anymore. Sell the receiver, and lifetime does not transfer with it. The only way to make that happen is to actually transfer your entire DirecTV account into another persons name.


----------



## OaklandRobb

I too paid for lifetime service from my first TiVo many years ago. It certainly worked out for me. What will be the advantage of having that going forward after I "upgrade" to MPEG 4 DVRs. Is there a fee that others pay that I will not have to pay? Or is there no advantage?


----------



## dswallow

OaklandRobb said:


> I too paid for lifetime service from my first TiVo many years ago. It certainly worked out for me. What will be the advantage of having that going forward after I "upgrade" to MPEG 4 DVRs. Is there a fee that others pay that I will not have to pay? Or is there no advantage?


You won't have to pay the monthly DVR fee (though some packages or at least some grandfathered packages had that included).


----------



## newsposter

Tom_Parker said:


> I've already got an HR 20 & 21 - now I'm deciding what to do with my lifetime TiVo 10-250. We have excellent OTA of the Portland stations, and I'm thinking I'll just use it to output to a SD TV up in my room.
> 
> Is there a better use for this device, or should I just go ahead and de-activate it? I already have a dual tuner Directivo in my room now...this would just give me a lot more storage. I'd be using the (gasp) composite video into the TV.


if you can afford the 5 bucks a month and easily wire it for your location, i'd keep it and use it for 2 more tuners and tons of SD storage. I dont think i've heard a complaint like 'i have too much hard drive space!"


----------



## OaklandRobb

dswallow said:


> You won't have to pay the monthly DVR fee (though some packages or at least some grandfathered packages had that included).


How much is the monthly DVR fee? I assume this is separate from the $5 fee per receiver after the first one, $15 for me for a total of 4 receivers, that I am currently paying.


----------



## ebonovic

OaklandRobb said:


> How much is the monthly DVR fee? I assume this is separate from the $5 fee per receiver after the first one, $15 for me for a total of 4 receivers, that I am currently paying.


$5.99 for the DVR fee (one fee per account, regardless how many DVRs)
$4.99 per unit for the mirroring/lease fee, with the first unit being waived.


----------



## shubmsp

All these acronyms! So what does AM21 mean in the context of Earls'? :

"Soon the AM21 will be available for those with an HR21, that want OTA access. Definently will be available before Sunday Ticket season."

and is there a place where the various acronyms are defined, so I won't have to keep asking these silly questions?


----------



## shubmsp

All these acronyms! So what does AM21 mean in the context of Earls'? :

"Soon the AM21 will be available for those with an HR21, that want OTA access. Definently will be available before Sunday Ticket season."

and is there a place where the various acronyms are defined, so I won't have to keep asking these silly questions?


----------



## ebonovic

AM21 isn't an acronym... It is the model unit of the add-on.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=123012


----------



## shubmsp

thanks for the reply, but now I have to ask, what is an AM21 add-on all about?


----------



## ebonovic

shubmsp said:


> thanks for the reply, but now I have to ask, what is an AM21 add-on all about?


Adds ATSC/OTA functionality to the HR21 series.


----------



## OaklandRobb

Avoiding the acronyms, unlike the HR 20, the HR 21 does not have a tuner to allow you to hook up an antenna and get over the air High Def television stations in your area. Adding the AM21 to an HR21 gives it that capability. This assumes that you live in an area where you can pick up those stations. DirecTV now provides a number of local High Def stations through the satellite feed in many areas, so even if you have an HR 21 you might not need the separate over the air tuner.

This page - http://http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/localChannels.jsp?assetId=900018 will show you what you can receive by satellite.

Robb


----------



## doncoolio

Ordered a HR21 on Sun. Was told by rep that there would be no new commitment. "Yeah, right" I thought to myself. Now after the install my account still shows "No Yearly commitment".


----------



## doncoolio

Relocate Existing HDDVR IRD1 Free 
Handling1 Free 
Professional Installation1 Free 
Standard Professional Install1 Free 
Swap Replace HR20 IRD1 Free 
Commitment b5714/0011 Free 

On the work order I just noticed the last line. Anyone know what that commitment code means?


----------



## Anubys

got a cold call from DirecTV last night...I already have two HR20 but still had three HR10-250 (only two are active)...the rep offered me a free upgrade for the two working HR10s to "ones that receive the new HD channels"...

I made sure he will send me DVR+, and that I want to receive channel from OTA antenna (yeah, right!)...got an appointment for the morning so I get my pick of whatever the installer has in his truck 

I pushed my luck and asked for a SWM install...he had no clue what I was talking about...oh well, worth a shot...


----------



## shubmsp

Many thanks for the responses, especially to you OaklanRobb, but now I have to ask, what is a SWM install??

Is there anyplace on the forum where I can get a glossary of acronyms? 
or is it possible that you experts out there can spell out these terms?



Anubys said:


> got a cold call from DirecTV last night...I already have two HR20 but still had three HR10-250 (only two are active)...the rep offered me a free upgrade for the two working HR10s to "ones that receive the new HD channels"...
> 
> I made sure he will send me DVR+, and that I want to receive channel from OTA antenna (yeah, right!)...got an appointment for the morning so I get my pick of whatever the installer has in his truck
> 
> I pushed my luck and asked for a SWM install...he had no clue what I was talking about...oh well, worth a shot...


----------



## Anubys

shubmsp said:


> Many thanks for the responses, especially to you OaklanRobb, but now I have to ask, what is a SWM install??
> 
> Is there anyplace on the forum where I can get a glossary of acronyms?
> or is it possible that you experts out there can spell out these terms?


I don't think there's a place for those things...but it's no big deal to ask...everyone here is super friendly...

SWM: Single Wire Multiswitch...with it, you don't need to run two cables to each HR20 (to get the use of the dual tuners)...since most houses are pre-wired for one cable, you usually need to run a second cable to use the dual tuners...with SWM, you don't need to do that...

this is available only for the new models...it's in Beta testing in 6 markets but you can buy the multiswitch and do the install yourself (or hire someone to do it)...

go to DBStalk for more info (just search) or this thread has someone who is selling the switches for $100 less than anywhere else...I've actually just posted a few posts asking for how to do the install myself and people have been helping me (I'm a total idiot)...so if you go to the last 2 pages of that thread, you might get all the info you need!


----------



## jaypb

Anubys said:


> got a cold call from DirecTV last night...I already have two HR20 but still had three HR10-250 (only two are active)...the rep offered me a free upgrade for the two working HR10s to "ones that receive the new HD channels"...
> 
> I made sure he will send me DVR+, and that I want to receive channel from OTA antenna (yeah, right!)...got an appointment for the morning so I get my pick of whatever the installer has in his truck
> 
> I pushed my luck and asked for a SWM install...he had no clue what I was talking about...oh well, worth a shot...


Did you inquire as to whether this was for a "swap" or a new install? I've been through several front line reps who told me they'd gladly "give" me new HR2X's but I'd have to give up the 2 HD Tivo's I have....if no swap, no free upgrade. I know this seems to all be hit and miss lately with current subs upgrading, but I'm just not in the mood to have an installer come out and demand he leave with my boxes (owned BTW) in order to plug in 2 new HR2X's.

I e-mailed DirecTV hoping for a reply back with a phone #/pin code to call and speak to someone directly (i.e. retention, as has happened in the not too distant past) who could make this easier, but the reply I received back was to call the general DirecTV 800# and they'd gladly assist me.


----------



## Anubys

jaypb said:


> Did you inquire as to whether this was for a "swap" or a new install?


no...I didn't ask since I didn't care...I have 3 of them...I'm keeping the one that is upgraded with bigger HDD (hard drives )...which is also the one I paid $1,000 for...

I'm guessing they will let me keep them (that's what they did before)...but no big deal either way since I have no use for them...


----------



## Jebberwocky!

well, if you own them you could sell them and cover (mostly) the cost of your new switch.

That's a use right?


----------



## Anubys

Jebberwocky! said:


> well, if you own them you could sell them and cover (mostly) the cost of your new switch.
> 
> That's a use right?


I thought these things were selling for less than $50 right now (I could be wrong)...a new switch is $300 or more...I guess it can help off-set the cost...


----------



## jaypb

Anubys said:


> no...I didn't ask since I didn't care...I have 3 of them...I'm keeping the one that is upgraded with bigger HDD (hard drives )...which is also the one I paid $1,000 for...
> 
> I'm guessing they will let me keep them (that's what they did before)...but no big deal either way since I have no use for them...


In my case (like you with the upgraded HDD) I have hundreds of hours of programming on my remaining 10-250's that I'd *like* to watch. One rep actually told me, "You know sir, you can utilize a DVD burner to record all those shows you have and then call us to do the upgrade"...to which I replied, "Yes, but these are shows that are in High Def....and they wouldn't be viewable in High Definition if I burn them to a DVD"...to which she replied, "Oh, but it won't look that much different".......

:up:

Nice......


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Anubys said:


> I thought these things were selling for less than $50 right now (I could be wrong)...a new switch is $300 or more...I guess it can help off-set the cost...


two months ago I got 131 & 132 for the two I sold on ebay

prob lower now


----------



## mrjngsr

Open questions for me :

First, where can I find the information as to whether I have remaining "commitment" on my DTV account? (can't seem to find it on their web site)

Second, what does "DLB" stand for? (relative to 10-250):

confused:


----------



## osx-addict

Well.. I picked up my 2nd HR10-250 last night for a whopping $20.. The guy had upgraded to one of the non-tivo units (and hates it by the way) but couldn't easily move back so was ditching the 10-250.. Needless to say, the price was great and it works like a charm.. It'll be replacing my slowly-dying Sony T60 (hard drive is going out)...

I realize they're moving away from these boxes but I love the tivo interface and can't imagine not having it.. We don't currently get any HD package from D* (locals are using an OTA) so we don't care at this point.. Perhaps in a few more years..


----------



## bigpuma

mrjngsr said:


> Second, what does "DLB" stand for? (relative to 10-250):
> 
> confused:


DLB = Dual Live Buffers. There is only one live tv buffer on the HR2x but the HR10 had 2 live buffers so you could jump back and forth between them without losing the buffer.


----------



## mrjngsr

Thanks . . . now how about thew MRV feature? What's that, praytell ?


----------



## mrjngsr

llarch - 

Where did you check to find your commitment status?


----------



## EricG

AM21 stands for Antenna Module 2 tuner 1 box.

Good guess ???


----------



## Anubys

mrjngsr said:


> Thanks . . . now how about thew MRV feature? What's that, praytell ?


Multi-Room Viewing...it's not here yet so there are discussion on how it would work...

here's a thread at DBStalk about it...

I may be wrong, but it's the ability to watch a show from any DVR (so a show recorded on the basement DVR can be watched from the Living Room TV)...


----------



## RS4

Anubys said:


> Multi-Room Viewing...it's not here yet so there are discussion on how it would work...
> 
> here's a thread at DBStalk about it...
> 
> I may be wrong, but it's the ability to watch a show from any DVR (so a show recorded on the basement DVR can be watched from the Living Room TV)...


Actually MRV has been around for a long time on the stand-alone Tivos. It works great!! D* decided not to allow us DTivo users to have the feature, but now they can copy Tivo and put it in their own dvrs.


----------



## jimb726

jaypb said:


> Did you inquire as to whether this was for a "swap" or a new install? I've been through several front line reps who told me they'd gladly "give" me new HR2X's but I'd have to give up the 2 HD Tivo's I have....if no swap, no free upgrade. I know this seems to all be hit and miss lately with current subs upgrading, but I'm just not in the mood to have an installer come out and demand he leave with my boxes (owned BTW) in order to plug in 2 new HR2X's.
> 
> I e-mailed DirecTV hoping for a reply back with a phone #/pin code to call and speak to someone directly (i.e. retention, as has happened in the not too distant past) who could make this easier, but the reply I received back was to call the general DirecTV 800# and they'd gladly assist me.


The installer wont take them, if they want them back DirecTv will send a recovery kit. Anyone who lets an installer walk out with their box is asking for trouble.


----------



## bigpuma

I got another automated call from DirecTV saying I could upgrade my HR10 for free. This would be my 3rd free upgrade of the same HR10.  DirecTV really needs to improve this system. I believe I got the call due to having NFLST. I am not going to take advantage this time as I have no need for a 3rd HD DVR.


----------



## ebonovic

RS4 said:


> Actually MRV has been around for a long time on the stand-alone Tivos. It works great!! D* decided not to allow us DTivo users to have the feature, but now they can copy Tivo and put it in their own dvrs.


Didn't Replay have MRV before TiVo?
And now DirecTV owns Replay...


----------



## RS4

ebonovic said:


> Didn't Replay have MRV before TiVo?
> And now DirecTV owns Replay...


I'm not sure about Replay having MRV. But it does make me even more disappointed in D* after having used some of these features. Even if they had charged a premium for some of these features and shared the fees with Tivo, that would have been fine with me. But to discount the feature set all of these years just says to me, that Direct is no longer the innovation leader I once thought they were.

I think it's becoming more and more clear to me, that they only do what they have to in order to keep their customers. I used to think they were an outstanding company - I actually thought they cared about the customers, and were interested in staying on top of the market, but now I feel duped. As I've said before, they are now just another company in my eyes. I kicked them off the pedestal I once had them on.


----------



## llarch

mrjngsr said:


> llarch -
> 
> Where did you check to find your commitment status?


In my case it is shown on the DTV website, under Programming/Equipment, then under Current Setup, in the Services area, it reads, "No Annual Commitment". Have no idea if this is the case for others.

I also called to verify that I'm not under contract.


----------



## llarch

ebonovic said:


> Didn't Replay have MRV before TiVo?
> And now DirecTV owns Replay...


Not relevant in the context of RS4's remark about TiVo having MRV for some time while D's TiVo offering didn't have it. D doesn't get retroactive credit for MRV by buying Replay, what matters is what is offered to customers, how well it works and when. Period.


----------



## ebonovic

llarch said:


> Not relevant in the context of RS4's remark about TiVo having MRV for some time while D's TiVo offering didn't have it. D doesn't get retroactive credit for MRV by buying Replay, what matters is what is offered to customers, how well it works and when. Period.


You are correct... there is nothing to reverse the time, and change that.

Replay definently had MRV.. just not sure when it came in... One varriation of it, was that you could record it... and then let a friend (somewhere else) access it... up to 6 different people, IIRC... that got them in a lot of trouble.

The DirecTV is "copying" it from TiVo is what caught my attention.

Just because TiVo did their wide spread implementation of it... doesn't mean they invented it... MRV isn't a radically "new" concept.

So yes, DirecTV adding it now... (which they are working on)... doesn't give them "credit"...

But as it goes... what was offered before... is just that.. .what was offered before... but what is offered today and tomorrow... that is what is most important.


----------



## ebonovic

RS4 said:


> I'm not sure about Replay having MRV. But it does make me even more disappointed in D* after having used some of these features. Even if they had charged a premium for some of these features and shared the fees with Tivo, that would have been fine with me. But to discount the feature set all of these years just says to me, that Direct is no longer the innovation leader I once thought they were.
> 
> I think it's becoming more and more clear to me, that they only do what they have to in order to keep their customers. I used to think they were an outstanding company - I actually thought they cared about the customers, and were interested in staying on top of the market, but now I feel duped. As I've said before, they are now just another company in my eyes. I kicked them off the pedestal I once had them on.


Honestly.... welcome to reality.

When you have a company as large as DirecTV and DishNetwork, and the LandLines.... "innovation" does slow down. Why? Volume of subscribers.
Building a unit that appeals to the larger majority of users... while keeping costs and complexity in check.

TiVo is a 3rd party independent company... focusing on pretty much one thing... their DVR... so yes... I would expect them to be quicker on the inovation curve them most... and they are...

They need that inovation to survive and compete... why... they are dependent on external programming sources (such as Amazon, NetFlix, and other things). And given the issues that are starting to show up with the Switched Video and the Cable-Co's.... it is going to be even tougher for them, and there is no let down in sight.

TiVo has always been on the front edge of things... they have a very good unit. However, it is not always the fastest, coolest, tricked out car that ultimately wins the race..


----------



## jcoulter

Tech showed up late with a HR21 not a HR20! So no install today. So I will either wait for the AM-21 or ??? Time for some more research.

What options are out there for someone who wants a HD DVR and has OTA?


----------



## Anubys

jcoulter said:


> Tech showed up late with a HR21 not a HR20! So no install today. So I will either wait for the AM-21 or ??? Time for some more research.


This is why I always ask for the first morning appointment...it gives me a higher number of boxes to pick from!


----------



## jcoulter

Anubys said:


> This is why I always ask for the first morning appointment...it gives me a higher number of boxes to pick from!


I did!! Wouldn't have done any good. Tech said they haven't had any HR20's for about 3-4 months. He told me that when he heard they were phasing out the 20's he switched his own boxes out!


----------



## Anubys

jcoulter said:


> I did!! Wouldn't have done any good. Tech said they haven't had any HR20's for about 3-4 months. He told me that when he heard they were phasing out the 20's he switched his own boxes out!


shoot...well that sucks...now I have to use a darn AM21


----------



## jcoulter

jcoulter said:


> Tech showed up late with a HR21 not a HR20! So no install today. So I will either wait for the AM-21 or ??? Time for some more research.
> 
> What options are out there for someone who wants a HD DVR and has OTA?


Well after some research I decided to go with E*. Called up D* to cancel and when the CSR asked why I was leaving I told him that the box that is available does not do OTA without the AM-21. He put me on hold and when he came back he told me that when the AM21 is available they will send one to me - no cost. So the original install is on again.


----------



## jimb726

jcoulter said:


> Well after some research I decided to go with E*. Called up D* to cancel and when the CSR asked why I was leaving I told him that the box that is available does not do OTA without the AM-21. He put me on hold and when he came back he told me that when the AM21 is available they will send one to me - no cost. So the original install is on again.


Interesting, I didnt think those were available yet, or did he say you would get one free when they are available?


----------



## dswallow

jimb726 said:


> Interesting, I didnt think those were available yet, or did he say you would get one free when they are available?


I'm curious why you asked that question when it appears it was already answered in what you quoted. 



> when he came back he told me that *when the AM21 is available* they will send one to me - *no cost*


----------



## jimb726

dswallow said:


> I'm curious why you asked that question when it appears it was already answered in what you quoted.


Cause I am a moron and missed it the first time through. I read that before I got my first cup of coffee.


----------



## gq91355

Last week in Valencia (Los Angeles County), I pulled over and spoke to a DirecTV installer. He said there are no HR21's available and that only refurb HR20's are being delivered. Is there anyone in LA who has recently (within the last week or so) received an HR21?

Thanks.


----------



## ebonovic

gq91355 said:


> Last week in Valencia (Los Angeles County), I pulled over and spoke to a DirecTV installer. He said there are no HR21's available and that only refurb HR20's are being delivered. Is there anyone in LA who has recently (within the last week or so) received an HR21?
> 
> Thanks.


Maybe for his particular truck or his company maybe out of HR21's.

But the HR21's are defienently in full production (three manufactures are producing them), the HR20's have ceased production.

LA has had a TREMENDOUS increase in upgrades over the last month, so it may be a localized supply issue.
(Due to the LA locals switching from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4; and the MPEG-2 being shutoff next week)


----------



## griffin6601

Well got the call this weekend and will have two units installed on Friday. They said I could keep my units. My wife made me ask for some free programming as well or I couldn't except it. So I had to get a call back number for that, but got a few months of Showtime and HDTV programming free as well. I think I will be happy.


----------



## RetroHarley

griffin6601 said:


> Well got the call this weekend and will have two units installed on Friday. *They said I could keep my units. *


Do we know for sure what the "rule" is here. I got the call, called them and they said I had to give up my 2 10-250's even though I was adamant that I owned them and did not want to give them up.

Finally said never mind and figured I'll try again in a few days, just curious if I have any hope of keeping them.


----------



## newsposter

how about having your units tucked away when they get there, letting them install the new ones...then if they ask for the old just refuse to give them and say unhook and take away all the new stuff if they insist on doing that? I am not sure but i get they dont get paid if they leave with your new stuff in tow. I do think it's wrong they want to take what people paid 1K for. Just kill the serial number in the system


----------



## joed32

RetroHarley said:


> Do we know for sure what the "rule" is here. I got the call, called them and they said I had to give up my 2 10-250's even though I was adamant that I owned them and did not want to give them up.
> 
> Finally said never mind and figured I'll try again in a few days, just curious if I have any hope of keeping them.


When units are returned it is by prepaid FedEx. You never give your Receiver to the installer. That being said, if the boxes are owned you can keep them.


----------



## jimb726

joed32 said:


> When units are returned it is by prepaid FedEx. You never give your Receiver to the installer. That being said, if the boxes are owned you can keep them.


You are wrong, that is why it is called an equipment SWAP. That being said, there are certainly plenty of times when they dont take the units. However it seems they are not terribly excited about exchanging the same unit out repeatedly for replacement HR-2X's. Thus the recent trend for recovery.


----------



## RS4

jimb726 said:


> You are wrong, that is why it is called an equipment SWAP. That being said, there are certainly plenty of times when they dont take the units. However it seems they are not terribly excited about exchanging the same unit out repeatedly for replacement HR-2X's. Thus the recent trend for recovery.


Hmm... I wonder if they ever heard of computer systems... a true modern marvel Just think, they could keep the serial number in their 'swapped' database and never swap it again. I think I've read of one contributor to the forums having one of his units 'swapped' 3 times!! Jeesh - just shows what poor planning those guys do:down:


----------



## Anubys

FWIW: finished my install this morning...I had 2 HR10s and 2 HR20s...Of course, they brought HR21s to replace my HR10s  (I wanted OTA tuners)

He insisted on a swap...I had an extra HR10 lying around so I gave him that...then also gave him an old Sony T60 I had disconnected a few years ago...he didn't care what he took back as long as he got two units...

so now my wife keeps her HR10 to watch the shows she still has saved it...and I still have one HR10 upgraded to 500 GB to sell on e-bay (no way he was getting that one, I paid $1K for it when it came out and another $300+ to upgrade it)...


----------



## griffin6601

Doing the install now, keeping my HR10-250's and got two refurb HR20's. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad. Didn't like the refurb idea, but I guess I can still watch locals in the rain storms.


----------



## Paul_PDX

DirectTV called last night and offered me a free upgrade and dish install and when I asked if I can keep my HR10 she said immediately we only do swaps for leased units and they showed mine was owned so they don't want it.

I have been calling them periodically for the last month or so trying to get a free upgrade(or downgrade as switching from TiVo may be) and had no luck but my current committment ran out last week so they finally called me.

I will get my non-TiVo box install on Sunday so my worl-after-TiVo world is soon to begin.

One question -- do I need any phone line attached to the new box for the install or is broadband ok?


----------



## newsposter

phone line only needed for remote ordering of PPV..nothing else


----------



## virent

Anubys said:


> FWIW: finished my install this morning...I had 2 HR10s and 2 HR20s...Of course, they brought HR21s to replace my HR10s  (I wanted OTA tuners)
> 
> He insisted on a swap...I had an extra HR10 lying around so I gave him that...then also gave him an old Sony T60 I had disconnected a few years ago...he didn't care what he took back as long as he got two units...
> 
> so now my wife keeps her HR10 to watch the shows she still has saved it...and I still have one HR10 upgraded to 500 GB to sell on e-bay (no way he was getting that one, I paid $1K for it when it came out and another $300+ to upgrade it)...


When doing a swap does'nt DirecTV need the serial number of the active HR10 being replaced so that they can remove it from their system and activate the HR20/21? How were you able to keep your HR10 active?

Also I got my HR10-250 from DirecTV for $299 about 3 years ago, so do I own it or is it leased?

Thanks


----------



## newsposter

i am pretty sure march 2006 is when leases started..have to look in archives to be sure


----------



## Anubys

virent said:


> When doing a swap does'nt DirecTV need the serial number of the active HR10 being replaced so that they can remove it from their system and activate the HR20/21? How were you able to keep your HR10 active?
> 
> Also I got my HR10-250 from DirecTV for $299 about 3 years ago, so do I own it or is it leased?
> 
> Thanks


DirecTV doesn't really care...the installer had to have two units in his hands and he didn't care which ones (so he gets his confirmation number that he fulfilled the order)...so I kept 6 units active (including the two HR10s I was keeping)...

then I called 5 minutes later (I could have done it on the internet) and de-activated the 2 HR10s...I only need them to play what's on the hard drive, so I don't need them active...


----------



## griffin6601

Anubys said:


> DirecTV doesn't really care...the installer had to have two units in his hands and he didn't care which ones (so he gets his confirmation number that he fulfilled the order)...so I kept 6 units active (including the two HR10s I was keeping)...
> 
> then I called 5 minutes later (I could have done it on the internet) and de-activated the 2 HR10s...I only need them to play what's on the hard drive, so I don't need them active...


So I can still watch my HR10 if I deactivate it? I had some show recorded that we didn't get through before installation.


----------



## bigpuma

griffin6601 said:


> So I can still watch my HR10 if I deactivate it? I had some show recorded that we didn't get through before installation.


You can still watch previously recorded programming. You can also use it in a limited fasion for OTA HD channels.


----------



## TomF

griffin6601 said:


> So I can still watch my HR10 if I deactivate it? I had some show recorded that we didn't get through before installation.


I de-activated my two Sony SAT-T60 DirecTiVos awhile ago. On one of them I would try to watch recorded programs and would get a message indicating that the access card was invalid. On the other one I didn't get the message. I tried moving the access card from the one without the message to the one with the message and the message went away. I now watch them both but move the card from one to another. Don't know why the difference.


----------



## Anubys

griffin6601 said:


> So I can still watch my HR10 if I deactivate it? I had some show recorded that we didn't get through before installation.


like bigpuma said, the answer is yes...at the start, you'll keep getting a notice that there's a problem with the lnb...but after a few minutes, you'll just get a blank screen...so it takes a while to get used to switching the TV input to the tivo and thinking there's no video...but you press the tivo or list buttons and you can then see your now playing screen...


----------



## Paul_PDX

TomF said:


> I de-activated my two Sony SAT-T60 DirecTiVos awhile ago. On one of them I would try to watch recorded programs and would get a message indicating that the access card was invalid. On the other one I didn't get the message. I tried moving the access card from the one without the message to the one with the message and the message went away. I now watch them both but move the card from one to another. Don't know why the difference.


Before calling to deactivate you probably want to disconnect them from the sat connections if you still plan to watch them. Otherwise they receive the disconnect from DirectTV and could have the card deactivated.


----------



## codespy

newsposter said:


> i am pretty sure march 2006 is when leases started..have to look in archives to be sure


You are correct. It was right after the DVR4ME promotion ended when we all loaded up on the last of the SD TiVo's.....

.....and this is post #1471. Don't these threads usually get closed when we hit 1000, mods?


----------



## jimb726

RS4 said:


> Hmm... I wonder if they ever heard of computer systems... a true modern marvel Just think, they could keep the serial number in their 'swapped' database and never swap it again. I think I've read of one contributor to the forums having one of his units 'swapped' 3 times!! Jeesh - just shows what poor planning those guys do:down:


I couldnt agree more, but as a company I can understand the desire to get them back. In their defense, if they swap out a unit and dont collect the old equipment and the person sells the unit on ebay, DirecTv looks like the bad guy when they wont allow activation on the system, or will not offer to upgrade it. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.


----------



## RS4

jimb726 said:


> I couldnt agree more, but as a company I can understand the desire to get them back. In their defense, if they swap out a unit and dont collect the old equipment and the person sells the unit on ebay, DirecTv looks like the bad guy when they wont allow activation on the system, or will not offer to upgrade it. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.


Yes, you have a valid point. If Direct is trying to prevent these devices from being connected to their system by another person, then that's another issue. Even if that is the case, they can always explain to the new customer when attaching the device, that it will not be eligible for the 'swap' program, because it was already traded on x date.

In my opinion, Direct does a terrible job of planning, and of managing their inventory. Every device has a serial number. With today's technologies, their is no reason why they can't keep track of this equipment. This swap program and the excuse of them not knowing what was going to be installed at the client's house is perfect examples of the company having no idea at all of what constitutes effective inventory management.


----------



## jimb726

RS4 said:


> Yes, you have a valid point. If Direct is trying to prevent these devices from being connected to their system by another person, then that's another issue. Even if that is the case, they can always explain to the new customer when attaching the device, that it will not be eligible for the 'swap' program, because it was already traded on x date.
> 
> In my opinion, Direct does a terrible job of planning, and of managing their inventory. Every device has a serial number. With today's technologies, their is no reason why they can't keep track of this equipment. This swap program and the excuse of them not knowing what was going to be installed at the client's house is perfect examples of the company having no idea at all of what constitutes effective inventory management.


Yes I agree, I was thinking more of the person who buys the unit second hand and then tries to activate it, etc. It amazes me how poorly they track inventory. I agree that with all of the technology available ther has to be a way to accurately track recievers. However all that being said, I still think that the company is the one who looks like the baddie when as second or ever third hand unit cannot be activated. I personally dont buy into the conspiracy people who think that the swap program is to get all of the TiVos out of their system. I have to believe that there a lot more of the SDTiVo units out there than there ever were HR10.


----------



## PrimeRisk

jimb726 said:


> Yes I agree, I was thinking more of the person who buys the unit second hand and then tries to activate it, etc. It amazes me how poorly they track inventory. I agree that with all of the technology available ther has to be a way to accurately track recievers. However all that being said, I still think that the company is the one who looks like the baddie when as second or ever third hand unit cannot be activated. I personally dont buy into the conspiracy people who think that the swap program is to get all of the TiVos out of their system. I have to believe that there a lot more of the SDTiVo units out there than there ever were HR10.


This is no different than how they track a receiver if the account it came from has an unpaid balance. They track those receivers VERY closely. If you buy a used D* receiver of any type, and if it turns out to be from an account with an unpaid balance D* will refuse to activate it again. This should be no different for the HR10-250s. If you get a receiver swap D* should say you get to keep the old unit, but if you want to reactivate it there is a $300 charge. (Why would they possibly want these things back anyway??) If someone buys the unit 2nd hand, then they will get the same story as any other receiver with a balance...pay up or no activation. If the 2nd hand owner pays up, then D* has their money and can even offer an upgrade immediately!

On your second point, I don't think that D* is trying to get rid of all DTiVos, just the HR10-250s. They use up a HUGE amount of very expensive satellite bandwidth to receive their HD content. D* is very motivated to get their user base off of this technology. The easy way is to offer a cheap way to get on to the MPEG4 equipment. We'd really be screaming if D* just said buy new HD receivers at full retail or lose all of your HD content because the MPEG1 feeds go dead on 6/30/08. They didn't do that, they are making a reasonable attempt to migrate people to MPEG4. I'm no fanboy of D* either. I think the HR2x equipment sucks compared to TiVo. You can read my agonizing adventure to get an HR20 so I could maintain OTA capability and the fight I had to put up with D* after they dinked up my account for 3 months. Even with all of that in mind, I do give them credit for trying to keep their customers happy with the HR2x swaps.


----------



## newsposter

for the record it has been said that dtv knows they are poor about keeping track of things but the issue is when the new customer calls in to upgrade, they are told sorry that receiver has already been upgraded and dtv looks bad


----------



## PrimeRisk

newsposter said:


> for the record it has been said that dtv knows they are poor about keeping track of things but the issue is when the new customer calls in to upgrade, they are told sorry that receiver has already been upgraded and dtv looks bad


I'm not sure who is saying DTV is poor of keeping track of thing, but maybe they're only talking about details on installs or promises of discounts. D* never loses track of someone who owes them money or the equipment that was used to rack up the bill. I buy and upgrade DTiVos on a small scale, generally from Craig's List, to meet the demand of people who aren't happy with the new D* DVRs. I quit buying from eBay because I had too much trouble with units that would have unpaid balances. D* keeps track of that stuff very carefully.

At this point in time I couldn't see anyone buying a HR10-250 unless their intent is to get a free upgrade to MPEG4 equipment. I don't think D* would look bad at all for saying that they'd activate the receiver, but it isn't eligible for a free upgrade. If the receiver has an outstanding balance against it they wouldn't activate it at all. Heck, I don't think D* looks bad if they said if you didn't have your HR10-250 active on the account for at least 1 year, you can't get a discount/free upgrade. That way they could say just leave the unit active for a year and we'll give you promo pricing at that time.

Caveat emptor! Know what you are buying and don't blame it on the company if you have been sold a bad unit by a 3rd party.


----------



## newsposter

i cant easily find the post but earl gave this as the reason why they are snagging hdtivos back


----------



## BrokerDon

llarch said:


> Here is the deal I just got;
> 
> Two HR21s, no cost
> New 5LNB dish, no cost
> Install, no cost
> No charge for the HD Extra pack (at least for some time)
> Was allowed to keep both my HR10s
> No commitment at all
> 
> My first weekend's experience;


UNBELIEVABLE! 

I just got off the phone with DTV Customer Service AND Retention and BOTH told me DTV would:

1. require a 2-year commitment for any "equipment upgrades"
2. NOT issue a $10 per month credit even through I'll lose OTA
3. NOT give me the HD Extra Pack FREE
4. NOT send an AM21 at no charge when they become available

... to get two HR21 receivers even though:

a. I am a Premier Customer (over 10 years)
b. don't need installation (dish was replaced 15 months ago with newest model)
c. I bought TWO HR10-250s (including one for $1,000)... which are now becoming "obsolete" because of DTVs anti-TiVo business practices.

What is the best way to get a better deal on getting one or two of these HR10-250s? I thought I saw a thread on a DTV Customer Care email address with suggested language that got us poor HR10-250 owners FREE HR21s. Does anyone know where I can find this email / letter OR have another suggestion on getting this upgraded so I don't lose my locally rebroadcast HD L.A. area channels?


----------



## buellwinkle

Depends who you talk to. First person was firm, the second person helped me out. I had 1 HR10-250 and 2 SD DirecTivos. I told them that I don't want to have to learn 2 different systems for my 2 main TVs so they gave me 2 HR21 and they work great. I did have to sign a 2 year commmittement because I got one free one I wasn't supposed to get. He told me that if just did a one for one replacement, there is no 2 yr committment. Also, the let me keep the old HR10, maybe I'll figure out how to use it like an OTA Tivo for spare room. For what it's worth, they had a special at the time, maybe it's still on, $99 for each additional HR21.

As for the HR10's becoming obsolete, the ended the HD stream for locals today, so for me in L.A. that means no more 81-89.

As for lack of OTA tuner, don't miss it, why? because now I get all the HD locals. Before I just got abc, cbs, nbc and fox, now I get twice as many HD locals like WB. Also the amount of HD programming is spectacular, SpikeHD, HGTV-HD, USA-HD, Food-HD, so many to name, it's just wow compared to the HR10. Also, you get the HD locals in the proper channel, so for me, I get ABC as channel 7, not 87 and I have the choice to get 7 in HD and 7 in SD, yes, 2 channel 7's but you can hide the SD if you want, there's an option for that. Yes, you will lose dual buffers and I loved that feature as much as anyone but there is a workaround. I feel I got more than what I lost. 

As for my second home, they lost me there, I didn't want to comit for 2 years, only reason and I got Charter cable and it works fine and my standalone HD Tivo will be great once I bring it up there.


----------



## llarch

Jebberwocky! said:


> The funny thing is that after using the new UI, the TIVo UI on a machine I rarely use any longer seems clunky.
> 
> Please let us know what you think after a month


Ok, here I am, about one month later after the swap of two HR10's for two HR21's. In my first few days with the HR21's, I orginally posted this;



llarch said:


> My first weekend's experience;
> 
> LIKES:
> 
> 1. I like the media share function (but wish the video would play more than just Mpeg2)
> 2. The VOD function is kind of cool, a bit clunky, but better than nothing
> 3. Like the overall speed/perf
> 4. Really like the easy hard drive upgrade
> 5. Nice box design/appearance
> 6. Enjoying all the extra HD channels
> 7. PQ seems very good, native resolution pass-through must help
> 8. Like remote booking/scheduling
> 9. Looking forward to MRV.
> 
> DISLIKES:
> 
> 1. The UI, in particular the location of functions, is a complete disaster (compared to TiVo). I know this may be a function of what I was used to, but wow, what a difference in the negative
> 
> OTHER:
> Haven't really missed the DLBs, don't watch much sports.
> 
> Haven't recorded enough to comment on accuracy.
> 
> Haven't had them long enough to comment on stability, but so far so good.


Here is my update;

The UI, in particular the location of functions, is a complete disaster (compared to TiVo). Yes, I'm a quick learner, so I've gotten somewhat acclimated to the HR21 UI, but that doesn't mean it isn't garbage. My analogy would be; I've gotten used to the HR21 UI in the same way an emergency room doc gets used to seeing the bloody torn up bodies come through the door each day, you tend to learn to cope with what you have to as a function of survival.

My wife's description on the HR21; "This looks and works like someone in a jr. high beginning programming class developed this." Note how she specifically referred to jr. high, not high school.

As for the rest of the list (likes and dislikes), unfortunately only dislikes have surfaced over the last month, too numerous to list here, I know this really isn't the place, but to summarize, all I can say is (to those who counter criticism by saying, "TiVo has its issues as well"); I've had more issues with the HR21s in 4 weeks than I had with the HR10's in 4 years.

For the first time in 10 years with D, I'm seriously looking at going back to cable, mainly for TiVo (FIOS not available in my area). The other reason I'm looking at cable is; the arrogance of D, in so many ways, is so intense, I almost feel hypocritical paying them each month. I feel like I'm writing a check to an abusive relative, like I'm funding the mistreatment of myself and other D customers. I don't know how much longer I can take it.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

llarch said:


> Ok, here I am, about one month later after the swap of two HR10's for two HR21's. In my first few days with the HR21's, I orginally posted this . . . . . . . . . . . .


Fair enough no one can say you didn't give it time.

I've been using mine for 6-7 months and it's all second nature to me at this point.


----------



## 94SupraTT

llarch said:


> Ok, here I am, about one month later after the swap of two HR10's for two HR21's. In my first few days with the HR21's, I orginally posted this;
> 
> Here is my update;
> 
> The UI, in particular the location of functions, is a complete disaster (compared to TiVo). Yes, I'm a quick learner, so I've gotten somewhat acclimated to the HR21 UI, but that doesn't mean it isn't garbage. My analogy would be; I've gotten used to the HR21 UI in the same way an emergency room doc gets used to seeing the bloody torn up bodies come through the door each day, you tend to learn to cope with what you have to as a function of survival.
> 
> My wife's description on the HR21; "This looks and works like someone in a jr. high beginning programming class developed this." Note how she specifically referred to jr. high, not high school.
> 
> As for the rest of the list (likes and dislikes), unfortunately only dislikes have surfaced over the last month, too numerous to list here, I know this really isn't the place, but to summarize, all I can say is (to those who counter criticism by saying, "TiVo has its issues as well"); I've had more issues with the HR21s in 4 weeks than I had with the HR10's in 4 years.
> 
> For the first time in 10 years with D, I'm seriously looking at going back to cable, mainly for TiVo (FIOS not available in my area). The other reason I'm looking at cable is; the arrogance of D, in so many ways, is so intense, I almost feel hypocritical paying them each month. I feel like I'm writing a check to an abusive relative, like I'm funding the mistreatment of myself and other D customers. I don't know how much longer I can take it.


Wow.

I'm honestly glad I don't take everything I read on this for to heart. While the interface takes time getting used to the speed of the HR21 compared to the HR10-250 is like comparing a Ferrari to a Pinto. The HR10-250 is horrifically slow. Adding a season pass? Thats about 5minutes (literally) of my time wasted. HR21 adding a season pass.....5 seconds, TOPS. Its not even close. While the flow of the HR21 interface pales in comparison to that of the HR10 its speed kills it. As it should being that it is 4 years newer. Very few on here point out the positives of the HR21. VOD, Mediashare, remote scheduling...I use all of them. I was able to watch every episode of Dexter with the new VOD feature. I considered myself a diehard Tivo lover however I'm warming up to the HR21. If the HR21 had DLB it wouldn't even be close. Any advantage the HR10 has is negated to me because of its sluggishnes. I have 2 HR10s and 1 HR21 so I can honestly compare the 2. Ideally DirecTV would make a new HD Tivo however I would settle for an HR21 with DLB honestly. As I've said I love the flow of the HR10s gui however the sluggishness is horrible.


----------



## llarch

94SupraTT said:


> Wow.
> 
> I'm honestly glad I don't take everything I read on this for to heart. While the interface takes time getting used to the speed of the HR21 compared to the HR10-250 is like comparing a Ferrari to a Pinto. The HR10-250 is horrifically slow. Adding a season pass? Thats about 5minutes (literally) of my time wasted. HR21 adding a season pass.....5 seconds, TOPS. Its not even close. While the flow of the HR21 interface pales in comparison to that of the HR10 its speed kills it. As it should being that it is 4 years newer. Very few on here point out the positives of the HR21. VOD, Mediashare, remote scheduling...I use all of them. I was able to watch every episode of Dexter with the new VOD feature. I considered myself a diehard Tivo lover however I'm warming up to the HR21. If the HR21 had DLB it wouldn't even be close. Any advantage the HR10 has is negated to me because of its sluggishnes. I have 2 HR10s and 1 HR21 so I can honestly compare the 2. Ideally DirecTV would make a new HD Tivo however I would settle for an HR21 with DLB honestly. As I've said I love the flow of the HR10s gui however the sluggishness is horrible.


Considering how often I add season passes compared to the daily major issues I'm having with the HR21s, like blank recordings (just happened again yesterday), I'll take something that actually works as a DVR with a nice interface any day. If a product can't do the basics well, then not much else matters.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

llarch said:


> Considering how often I add season passes compared to the daily major issues I'm having with the HR21s, like blank recordings (just happened again yesterday), I'll take something that actually works as a DVR with a nice interface any day. If a product can't do the basics well, then not much else matters.


I have way less issues with my HR20's than I did with my 10-250's - go figure


----------



## Anubys

Jebberwocky! said:


> I have way less issues with my HR20's than I did with my 10-250's - go figure


as do most people, I think...it doesn't make the people who have problems feel any better, though


----------



## ebonovic

llarch said:


> Considering how often I add season passes compared to the daily major issues I'm having with the HR21s, like blank recordings (just happened again yesterday), I'll take something that actually works as a DVR with a nice interface any day. If a product can't do the basics well, then not much else matters.


What show? Which channel?

Did it record before or after the latest software update?


----------



## llarch

ebonovic said:


> What show? Which channel?
> 
> Did it record before or after the latest software update?


Most recent blank recording was Challenge on FoodHD channel, it was Wed after night a day after I got build 221 via CE. The info of the recoding shows 39 mins, when I go to play it, it instantly goes to the keep or delete dialog.

Pre 221, I had a number of blank recordings over the last few weeks, the latest was Nothing But Trailers on HDNet channel on Sun (I was on build 206 at the time).

And yes, I posted on the other forum regarding these issues.

And no, when I agreed to the swap I didn't intend to do bug testing and tracking for D, I just want a DVR that works.


----------



## ebonovic

Thank you for the details...



llarch said:


> And no, when I agreed to the swap I didn't intend to do bug testing and tracking for D, I just want a DVR that works.


I have to ask then...

Why are you downloading the CE's then?


----------



## llarch

ebonovic said:


> Thank you for the details...
> 
> I have to ask then...
> 
> Why are you downloading the CE's then?


Because I knew I was not the only person getting the blank recordings and I was hoping the latest version would address majors issues (like blank recordings). Also, I was hoping that the reference to "Elimination of rare cases of gray screen" in the 221 release notes may be D's way of referring to blank recordings.


----------



## 94SupraTT

llarch said:


> Considering how often I add season passes compared to the daily major issues I'm having with the HR21s, like blank recordings (just happened again yesterday), I'll take something that actually works as a DVR with a nice interface any day. If a product can't do the basics well, then not much else matters.


Not to say you aren't but I haven't had a single blank recording with the HR21. Now I did have something misrecordred. Cold Case showed up as Criminal Minds twice in the past month however the HR21 also recorded Criminal Minds correctly when it actually did come on. So I haven't missed any recordings. The reboots of my HR10-250 and sluggishness in my case have me warming up to the HR21 quicker than I thought I would. Neither is perfect however the HR21 isn't as bad as most would on this forum would lead me to believe. The same holds true however on the "other" forum. The importance of DLB is REALLY downplayed. I know I'm going to strongly dislike not having DLB come football season.


----------



## Bananfish

I've got an HR10-250 in my LR and an old Series 1 DTivo (Hughes GXCEBOT) in my BR. I'm going to have to upgrade soon - just lost my HD locals - but I'm going to wait until after I've got my newly ordered Pioneer 1150 installed because I'm going to reconfigure the LR.

Is there any chance that DirecTV will agree to an upgrade, install a new HR20/21 in the LR and let me just move the HR10-250 to the BR?

Alternatively, is there any chance they'll swap out both the HR10-250 and the Series 1 DTivo for HR20/21 in both the LR and BR?

(I've been with D* for about 8 years and have had the Sunday Ticket for the last 6 years or so, and haven't had an upgrade or received any freebies in a long time, so I would think I would be considered a valued customer, if that matters.)


----------



## woodlecj

D* called me last night to give me a free swap on my Hr10-250 and dish! I said I had two of them. She said no problem. I said I wanted to keep my old HR10s. She said no problem. Been a customer since '98 with 4 Tivos and ST; that probably helps. I told her to put in the notes to bring an HR20 for OTA; I'm sure that won't happen, but if it does great; if it doesn't I'll try what one of you did above and call retention for an HR21 to HR20 swap. They are coming out next Thursday; Ill let you know how it goes.


----------



## 94SupraTT

woodlecj said:


> D* called me last night to give me a free swap on my Hr10-250 and dish! I said I had two of them. She said no problem. I said I wanted to keep my old HR10s. She said no problem. Been a customer since '98 with 4 Tivos and ST; that probably helps. I told her to put in the notes to bring an HR20 for OTA; I'm sure that won't happen, but if it does great; if it doesn't I'll try what one of you did above and call retention for an HR21 to HR20 swap. They are coming out next Thursday; Ill let you know how it goes.


Good luck with the HR21 for HR20 swap. D* has sent me 2 replacements for my HR21, they requested a HR20 in the notes however both times I got a HR21. So I ended up just keeping my HR21. I might try it one last time.


----------



## ebonovic

94SupraTT said:


> Good luck with the HR21 for HR20 swap. D* has sent me 2 replacements for my HR21, they requested a HR20 in the notes however both times I got a HR21. So I ended up just keeping my HR21. I might try it one last time.


Or you can just wait a little while longer and add the AM21...


----------



## ebonovic

woodlecj said:


> D* called me last night to give me a free swap on my Hr10-250 and dish! I said I had two of them. She said no problem. I said I wanted to keep my old HR10s. She said no problem. Been a customer since '98 with 4 Tivos and ST; that probably helps. I told her to put in the notes to bring an HR20 for OTA; I'm sure that won't happen, but if it does great; if it doesn't I'll try what one of you did above and call retention for an HR21 to HR20 swap. They are coming out next Thursday; Ill let you know how it goes.


Very doubtfull you will get a single HR20... let alone two.
There just are not that many left in the distribution chain.

You will probably get an HR21... and then you can argue to get the AM21 for a reduced cost, or free. once it is released.


----------



## Darichard

PrimeRisk said:


> On your second point, I don't think that D* is trying to get rid of all DTiVos, just the HR10-250s. They use up a HUGE amount of very expensive satellite bandwidth to receive their HD content. D* is very motivated to get their user base off of this technology. The easy way is to offer a cheap way to get on to the MPEG4 equipment. We'd really be screaming if D* just said buy new HD receivers at full retail or lose all of your HD content because the MPEG1 feeds go dead on 6/30/08.


I plan to help them get rid of the overhead of my HR10 by going to Comcast. I'm not a fan of Comcast, but I am a fan of TiVo. Not giving us an option to use our own TiVo box with their HR receiver is just ridiculous. And requiring me to sign up for a 2 year commitment is also completely unreasonable. After about 11 years, my DirecTV days are numbered.


----------



## ebonovic

Darichard said:


> I plan to help them get rid of the overhead of my HR10 by going to Comcast. I'm not a fan of Comcast, but I am a fan of TiVo. Not giving us an option to use our own TiVo box with their HR receiver is just ridiculous. And requiring me to sign up for a 2 year commitment is also completely unreasonable. After about 11 years, my DirecTV days are numbered.


Has TiVo created a box that can accept an HD signal from another receiver?
DirecTV has no rule against that?

You can use your own TiVo boxes, with the HR receivers... just not for HD.
.....

Anyway.. .hopefully you are in one of the better COMCAST markets
Best wishes, and good luck with your new provider.


----------



## Darichard

ebonovic said:


> Has TiVo created a box that can accept an HD signal from another receiver?
> DirecTV has no rule against that?


Fair enough. The point for me is that I used to see a real advantage with DTV. If I can get roughly the same HD content (no sports for me) and keep a TiVO, it's a not much of contest. No idea if Comcast is good in my area or now - been on DTV the whole time I've lived in this area.


----------



## ebonovic

Darichard said:


> Fair enough. The point for me is that I used to see a real advantage with DTV. If I can get roughly the same HD content (no sports for me) and keep a TiVO, it's a not much of contest. No idea if Comcast is good in my area or now - been on DTV the whole time I've lived in this area.


Take a look at: http://www.whereishd.com/

To get an idea of what is available in your area on HD, from the different providers.

It is not 100% accurate (hasn't been updated for ESPNNews HD for example)..
But it is pretty close


----------



## newsposter

ebonovic said:


> Take a look at: http://www.whereishd.com/


if he could do a side by side that site would be golden :up:


----------



## ebonovic

newsposter said:


> if he could do a side by side that site would be golden :up:


it would at least give a brake down of channels...

Considering COMCAST is not consistent in every market they are in.


----------



## 94SupraTT

ebonovic said:


> Or you can just wait a little while longer and add the AM21...


A "little while longer" was initially the end of February, then the end of March, then April. I'm tired of waiting. I've been actively watching the AM21 threads on dbstalk however I've grown impatient. Therefore if I can get a box that does what I want it to do NOW, I'd rather do that than wait indefinately.


----------



## stevel

There was never an official release date for the AM21. Any dates you read were someone's speculation.


----------



## RS4

stevel said:


> There was never an official release date for the AM21. Any dates you read were someone's speculation.


It's interesting how the excuses come out about not meeting their announced dates. Has Direct ever made an announced date? Probably not... look at the dvr, their still programming stuff they announced being available in the original release over a year and a half ago.


----------



## shibby191

RS4 said:


> It's interesting how the excuses come out about not meeting their announced dates. Has Direct ever made an announced date? Probably not... look at the dvr, their still programming stuff they announced being available in the original release over a year and a half ago.


Can you not read? There never was an announced date. Can't miss a date you don't announce.


----------



## 94SupraTT

stevel said:


> There was never an official release date for the AM21. Any dates you read were someone's speculation.


I agree which is more the reason for me to want a HR20 now instead of waiting indefinately. I never said there was an official release date. However all Earl has now is more speculation. I'm tired of waiting on speculation which keeps changing. Therefore I want a HR20 now. "A little while longer" could easily been 6months to a year.


----------



## stevel

Well, *I* have an AM21, so I know they're real. Patience, grasshopper.


----------



## ebonovic

94SupraTT said:


> I agree which is more the reason for me to want a HR20 now instead of waiting indefinately. I never said there was an official release date. However all Earl has now is more speculation. I'm tired of waiting on speculation which keeps changing. Therefore I want a HR20 now. "A little while longer" could easily been 6months to a year.


I have never speculated on a date for the AM21... 
I have stated that have moved forward and are getting closer to releasing the AM21...

But I don't recall ever putting a date on it, as I have never been given a date.

And since I too also physically posses an AM21... I know they are not fiction or vaporware.... and if you have followed the recent releases on the HR21's... you will know that one of the last remaining major hurdles has been cleared for the AM21.

I would not use the term "A little while longer" if I felt that it wouldn't be until Q3 or Q4 or next year.... I would say Q3 or Q4, or next year... not "a little while longer"


----------



## 94SupraTT

ebonovic said:


> I have never speculated on a date for the AM21...
> I have stated that have moved forward and are getting closer to releasing the AM21...
> 
> But I don't recall ever putting a date on it, as I have never been given a date.
> 
> And since I too also physically posses an AM21... I know they are not fiction or vaporware.... and if you have followed the recent releases on the HR21's... you will know that one of the last remaining major hurdles has been cleared for the AM21.
> 
> I would not use the term "A little while longer" if I felt that it wouldn't be until Q3 or Q4 or next year.... I would say Q3 or Q4, or next year... not "a little while longer"





94SupraTT said:


> I agree which is more the reason for me to want a HR20 now instead of waiting indefinately. I never said there was an official release date. However all Earl has now is more speculation. I'm tired of waiting on speculation which keeps changing. Therefore I want a HR20 now. "A little while longer" could easily been 6months to a year.


"A little while longer" is speculation. I never once stated that *you* speculated on a date. I specifically said all you have is speculation. You can't spin that no matter all you try. ALL YOU HAVE IS SPECULATION. This is no different than anyone else's speculation. Your speculation holds no weight over anyone else's speculation. Understand?


----------



## ebonovic

94SupraTT said:


> "A little while longer" is speculation. I never once stated that you speculated on a date. I specifically said all you have his speculation. You can't spin that no matter all you try. ALL YOU HAVE IS SPECULATION. You might want to read my posts more carefully in the future.


Well I would say "sorry" for the mis-interpretation of your post... but you yelled at me...

But to clarrify... I haven't changed my speculation on when the unit will be released.


----------



## 94SupraTT

ebonovic said:


> Well I would say "sorry" for the mis-interpretation of your post... but you yelled at me...
> 
> But to clarrify... I haven't changed my speculation on when the unit will be released.


Well. I won't be bothering with the AM21. I got my HR20 today.


----------



## Bananfish

Just called for my upgrade. Here's what my CSR, Debbie, agreed to do:

(1) New HR20 or HR21 in LR.
(2) Move HR10-250 from LR to BR (to replace GXCEBOT Series 1 DirecTiVo).
(3) Install new dish and any wiring, etc.
(4) 3 months free HD Access ($10 off each month X 3)
(5) She put in a request for an HR20 - in the event that I don't get it and I need to buy an AM21 to hook up an antenna, they will give me $10 off for 6 months.
(6) Cost to me: $0 (2 year commitment)

Did I do OK, or should I call back and ask for something else before my installation on Saturday?

[Edit: Just to be clear, I currently have an HR10-250 in my LR and a Series 1 DirecTiVo in the BR - after the "swap," I'll have an HR20/21 in the LR and the HR10-250 in the BR.]

P.S. Debbie said the AM-21 will be available in May. She clearly looked something up on her computer to come up with that date.


----------



## timlinca

llarch said:


> Because I knew I was not the only person getting the blank recordings and I was hoping the latest version would address majors issues (like blank recordings). Also, I was hoping that the reference to "Elimination of rare cases of gray screen" in the 221 release notes may be D's way of referring to blank recordings.


I had three blank recordings this week: Lost, ER, and Supernatural. (Three different networks). They were "backed up" on two different TiVos so nothing was missed.

I'm curious if anyone has seen if the program is actually broadcast and can be seen if watched "live" but still shows up as blank when the attempt is made to watch the recorded version. That must be the case. Otherwise millions would be in an uproar about this.

Tim

p.s. This is on my HR21. Too new to have made it to the signature yet...


----------



## pendragn

When you have blank recordings have you tried rebooting the unit and trying them again? For a while we had a string of recordings that were unwatchable and rebooting always fixed it. This was with an HR-20.

tk


----------



## timlinca

pendragn said:


> When you have blank recordings have you tried rebooting the unit and trying them again? For a while we had a string of recordings that were unwatchable and rebooting always fixed it. This was with an HR-20.
> 
> tk


I have not. I will try that on the next blank one.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Tim


----------



## shibby191

And report any blank recordings on DBSTalk. There is a special web page to report them as DirecTV wants to try to figure out a pattern as they obviously can't reproduce it enough to fix it.


----------



## mpar1

I got "the call" yesterday. D* offered me a free dish, free receiver, free installation and I bit. I already have a $10/month credit from a prior issue so my HD Extra Pack and DVR fee is covered. I hate to leave the HR10-250 and Tivo lifetime behind after nearly seven great years but it is inevitable. With D11 having launched I'll have local HD channels available this Fall. I might as well be ready and spend the Summer adjusting to D*'s DVR.


----------



## Lsollee

shibby191 said:


> And report any blank recordings on DBSTalk. There is a special web page to report them as DirecTV wants to try to figure out a pattern as they obviously can't reproduce it enough to fix it.


Here's a link to it.
http://www.iamanedgecutter.com/Projects/BGRecordings/


----------



## norneslo

Bananfish said:


> Just called for my upgrade. Here's what my CSR, Debbie, agreed to do:
> 
> (1) New HR20 or HR21 in LR.
> (2) Move HR10-250 from LR to BR (to replace GXCEBOT Series 1 DirecTiVo).
> (3) Install new dish and any wiring, etc.
> (4) 3 months free HD Access ($10 off each month X 3)
> (5) She put in a request for an HR20 - in the event that I don't get it and I need to buy an AM21 to hook up an antenna, they will give me $10 off for 6 months.
> (6) Cost to me: $0 (2 year commitment)
> 
> Did I do OK, or should I call back and ask for something else before my installation on Saturday?
> 
> [Edit: Just to be clear, I currently have an HR10-250 in my LR and a Series 1 DirecTiVo in the BR - after the "swap," I'll have an HR20/21 in the LR and the HR10-250 in the BR.]
> 
> P.S. Debbie said the AM-21 will be available in May. She clearly looked something up on her computer to come up with that date.


I finally called myself and didn't fare as well. I've been putting this off forever, and I got a letter in the mail offering free upgrade. I called, and they just won't do anything without taking my HR10-250 away from me. I'm one of those early guys, I paid $1000 for that box, plus one new hard drive replacement already. They can't have it. Period. The offered to swap for an HR21 that I would "own", and offered a free OTA addon box. Free dish, etc. No discounts. I said No. Or, I can get a leased HR21, but still, have to give up the HR10. Uverse and Comcast are both beating down my door with no upfront costs. I'll keep waiting.

RonO


----------



## shibby191

norneslo said:


> I finally called myself and didn't fare as well. I've been putting this off forever, and I got a letter in the mail offering free upgrade. I called, and they just won't do anything without taking my HR10-250 away from me. I'm one of those early guys, I paid $1000 for that box, plus one new hard drive replacement already. They can't have it. Period. The offered to swap for an HR21 that I would "own", and offered a free OTA addon box. Free dish, etc. No discounts. I said No. Or, I can get a leased HR21, but still, have to give up the HR10. Uverse and Comcast are both beating down my door with no upfront costs. I'll keep waiting.
> 
> RonO


FYI that chances of the installer taking the HR10 is pretty small. They have no need for them. Get the deal and when the installer shows up I wouldn't even mention the HR10. If he mentions it tell him you want it moved to another room or something. If he insists on taking it and won't take no for an answer then send him on his way and cancel your install. Certainly worth a try. Very few installers insist on taking it, they just don't care.


----------



## timlinca

Four more blank recordings on my HR21-700 this week. I'll report them over on the Black/Grey Recordings poll web page.
Lost, CSI NY, CSI Miami and Boston Legal

They were "backed up" on my trusty HR10-250 except Boston Legal. That is backed up on a SD tivo.

If this were my only DVR, I'd be livid.


----------



## snickerrrrs

Besides, aren't you glad Earl ( the original poster) talked you into the HR21? Now we find out he's working for Directv. I wonder how long.


----------



## madbeachcat

snickerrrrs said:


> Besides, aren't you glad Earl ( the original poster) talked you into the HR21? Now we find out he's working for Directv. I wonder how long.


You should pay more attention. Earl is not the OP, Justapixel is. And what do you have against Earl anyway? You're all over here and at DBSTalk panning him. Earl did favor DirecTV, but so what. That just means his tastes evolved over time. There was a time on this forum when he was one of the biggest boosters for the HDTivo. I don't think he ever said bad things about the HR10, he just realized it was time to move on.


----------



## bigpuma

madbeachcat said:


> You should pay more attention. Earl is not the OP, Justapixel is.


Actually Earl is the OP. Justapixel started a different thread.


----------



## pudge44

I'm a 10-year customer with lots of add-ons: NFLST, MMM, etc. I have an old Series 1 DirecTivo, a HR-10, and a regular SD receiver. 

DTV sent a letter, then started calling. The offer: free upgrade of the HR-10, free shipping, free install. No new commitment (I'm out of contract). But both CSR that called didn't know what they were talking about when I started asking about things like MPEG-2 shut-off dates. One told me they would take my HR-10, the other told me I could keep it. 

I'm ready to upgrade, certainly before fall when I gather NFLST will be in MPEG-4. Here's what I want. I don't care about OTA since I live in the New York market and have always gotten my networks thru D*. I'll take an HR-21 to replace the HR-10. I want to keep my HR-10 (paid $400 for it 2+ years ago). And I want an additional HR-21 to add to bedroom TV that is currently sharing the old series 1 DirecTivo with a basement TV. 

I plan to ask for that additional HR-21 for free. I will sign another two-year commitment if they give it to me. I want to keep the HR-10 (lots of programming on it) on an additional input on my TV. 

What's the best I can hope for here?


----------



## Chris Gerhard

pudge44 said:


> I'm a 10-year customer with lots of add-ons: NFLST, MMM, etc. I have an old Series 1 DirecTivo, a HR-10, and a regular SD receiver.
> 
> DTV sent a letter, then started calling. The offer: free upgrade of the HR-10, free shipping, free install. No new commitment (I'm out of contract). But both CSR that called didn't know what they were talking about when I started asking about things like MPEG-2 shut-off dates. One told me they would take my HR-10, the other told me I could keep it.
> 
> I'm ready to upgrade, certainly before fall when I gather NFLST will be in MPEG-4. Here's what I want. I don't care about OTA since I live in the New York market and have always gotten my networks thru D*. I'll take an HR-21 to replace the HR-10. I want to keep my HR-10 (paid $400 for it 2+ years ago). And I want an additional HR-21 to add to bedroom TV that is currently sharing the old series 1 DirecTivo with a basement TV.
> 
> I plan to ask for that additional HR-21 for free. I will sign another two-year commitment if they give it to me. I want to keep the HR-10 (lots of programming on it) on an additional input on my TV.
> 
> What's the best I can hope for here?


I believe you will be able to get all that you ask for and will be required to accept a 2-year commitment. The first CSR may not agree to that, but I think eventually, you should be able to find one that will.

Chris


----------



## Fezmid

pudge44 said:


> I'm a 10-year customer with lots of add-ons: NFLST, MMM, etc. I have an old Series 1 DirecTivo, a HR-10, and a regular SD receiver.
> 
> DTV sent a letter, then started calling. The offer: free upgrade of the HR-10, free shipping, free install. No new commitment (I'm out of contract). But both CSR that called didn't know what they were talking about when I started asking about things like MPEG-2 shut-off dates. One told me they would take my HR-10, the other told me I could keep it.
> 
> I'm ready to upgrade, certainly before fall when I gather NFLST will be in MPEG-4. Here's what I want. I don't care about OTA since I live in the New York market and have always gotten my networks thru D*. I'll take an HR-21 to replace the HR-10. I want to keep my HR-10 (paid $400 for it 2+ years ago). And I want an additional HR-21 to add to bedroom TV that is currently sharing the old series 1 DirecTivo with a basement TV.
> 
> I plan to ask for that additional HR-21 for free. I will sign another two-year commitment if they give it to me. I want to keep the HR-10 (lots of programming on it) on an additional input on my TV.
> 
> What's the best I can hope for here?


You're in the same situation I am -- so please let me know if you're able to get the second free HR21 in exchange for the extra commitment.

Anyone having trouble getting a 4x8 multiswitch for use with the new dish? I'm guessing that won't be a problem, but I haven't asked DirecTV yet... Going to call to schedule in a week or so.


----------



## Anubys

I don't know if you'll be able to keep your current HR10...when I got the free "swap" because I have the NFL ST, the installer insisted that it's a swap...lucky for me, I had some old units long retired so I was able to give him an old Sony SD Tivo and kept the HR10...


----------



## newsposter

i guess this is why people buy dead units on ebay?


----------



## pudge44

Fezmid said:


> You're in the same situation I am -- so please let me know if you're able to get the second free HR21 in exchange for the extra commitment.
> 
> Anyone having trouble getting a 4x8 multiswitch for use with the new dish? I'm guessing that won't be a problem, but I haven't asked DirecTV yet... Going to call to schedule in a week or so.


Well, here's the update. I called Directv and the level-one CSR gave me some conflicting info. He told me the additional HR-21 would be $199. That's when I dropped the name FIOS as was transferred to retention.

I had a lengthy conversation with the CSR in retention. She was knowledgeable, patient, and pleasant. I ended up with a choice of two offers.

Offer 1
Free HR-21 upgrade
Second HR-21 for $49 (it was originally $99 before she lowered it some more) plus $20 S/H
$10 off bill for 12 mos. 
$10 off sports pack for 6 mos. 
Free 5-LNB dish and installation
New two-year commitment
BUT - I'd have to turn in my HR-10. She was insistent on this point, said it was related to a company policy on upgrades for older units not covered by the protection plan. I argued until we came up with

Offer 2
Free HR-21 (not an upgrade, but as an added receiver)
Second HR-21 for $199
Free S/H
$10 off bill for 12 mos.
$10 off sports pack for 6 mos. 
Free NFLST SuperFan (HD package; $99 value)
Free 5-LNB dish and installation
New two-year commitment
I get to keep the HR-10.

I chose Offer 2. The difference upfront is $139 if I think I probably could have gotten SuperFan for free either way, $40 if I would have had to pay for SuperFan. She set it up so that the HR-10 will deactivate the day after my installation.

The idea that I'd have to fork over a device I own just didn't sit well with me. This way I can at least keep the HR-10 and watch the stuff recorded on it. Who knows, maybe I'll use the HDDs in it for something else eventually or try to get something for it on ebay. It was worth the extra dough to me to keep it.


----------



## incog-neato

You wouldn't have had to send it back regardless of what she told you. The tech would just have left without it. They have no use for them and I haven't heard of anyone who has actually given one back other then voluntarily. One tech I know says customers give them to him because they think they have to turn them in ... he just takes them and sells them for parts.



pudge44 said:


> I chose Offer 2. The difference upfront is $139 if I think I probably could have gotten SuperFan for free either way, $40 if I would have had to pay for SuperFan. She set it up so that the HR-10 will deactivate the day after my installation.
> 
> The idea that I'd have to fork over a device I own just didn't sit well with me. This way I can at least keep the HR-10 and watch the stuff recorded on it. Who knows, maybe I'll use the HDDs in it for something else eventually or try to get something for it on ebay. It was worth the extra dough to me to keep it.


----------



## newsposter

can they reactivate it, run up the PPV then you're on the hook for it?


----------



## Drestin

I thought I'd chime in with my most recent experience. I'm just hanging up with the CSR right now. I too had to go to retention to get my final deal. Here is what I got:

HR21 for $49
AM21 for $50
5 LNB Dish and installation and relocation free
Shipping free
Keep existing H10-250
$10 off per month for 12 months
Still no commitment

Being installed Monday. I'm pleased.


----------



## mgmrick

Replaced my (broken) leased hr10-250 for a hr20 cost zero including installing a new 5lnb dish. The advantage of leasing and they don't want back the hr10-250. That 250gig hard drive going in my pc.

Thanks
Rick


----------



## divedude

Here is my deal:

2 - HR21's free
2 - AM21's one free, one for $50
1 - H21 free
5 LNB Dish and installation free
Shipping free
Keep 2 existing H10-250's
$10 off per month for 6 months


----------



## newsposter

ok boys and girls, i figured out how to get a FREE HRXX...I wrote to DTV using the feedback form and it was about getting receivers from an authorized vendor..he wrote back to me and said dont go there, you can get a free upgrade to an mpeg4 receiver

so i'm betting if you write in and ask an innocent question..not even saying you want an upgrade, you can get one for FREE

Now, You are eligible for a no cost upgrade of your MPEG-2 HD receiver to an MPEG-4 HD receiver (installation charges may apply). With an MPEG-4 HD receiver and HD Access you'll be able to see our expanded lineup of HD programming. So instead of checking equipment elsewhere and to take advantage of this special offer, please call us at 1-800-531-5000


----------



## drew2k

newsposter said:


> ok boys and girls, i figured out how to get a FREE HRXX...I wrote to DTV using the feedback form and it was about getting receivers from an authorized vendor..he wrote back to me and said dont go there, you can get a free upgrade to an mpeg4 receiver
> 
> so i'm betting if you write in and ask an innocent question..not even saying you want an upgrade, you can get one for FREE
> 
> Now, You are eligible for a no cost upgrade of your MPEG-2 HD receiver to an MPEG-4 HD receiver (installation charges may apply). With an MPEG-4 HD receiver and HD Access you'll be able to see our expanded lineup of HD programming. So instead of checking equipment elsewhere and to take advantage of this special offer, please call us at 1-800-531-5000


There's a difference between an "HRXX" free receiver and just a free "MPEG4" receiver ... did the upgrade offer say you'd get a DVR, or just swap your MPEG2 receiver for MPEG4 receiver, which may or may not be a DVR?

(HRXX is an MPEG4 HD DVR, while HXX is an MPEG4 HD receiver)


----------



## newsposter

i dont have only dvrs so i'd be shocked if they downgraded me...that would infuriate most every customer out there i'd think..even those not as informed as those on this board.


----------



## sloan

Has anyone gotten a "deal" with the HR21 OTA addon device? (AM21)?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/17/a-first-look-at-the-directv-am21/
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/30/directv-am21-finally-available/


----------



## shibby191

sloan said:


> Has anyone gotten a "deal" with the HR21 OTA addon device? (AM21)?
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/17/a-first-look-at-the-directv-am21/
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/04/30/directv-am21-finally-available/


They were giving them away like candy when they first came out a few months ago to those that had upgraded from an HR10. DBSTalk has a bunch of info on this. Not sure if that is still going on.


----------



## Fezmid

pudge44 said:


> Offer 2
> Free HR-21 (not an upgrade, but as an added receiver)
> Second HR-21 for $199
> Free S/H
> $10 off bill for 12 mos.
> $10 off sports pack for 6 mos.
> Free NFLST SuperFan (HD package; $99 value)
> Free 5-LNB dish and installation
> New two-year commitment
> I get to keep the HR-10.


Well, I finally called and got a decent, but not great deal.

Free HR21 (not an upgrade)
Second HR-21 for $99 (+$20 S/H which is kinda lame...)
$10 off bill for $12 months
Free dish/installation
Free 8-port multiswitch
New two-year commitment

I tried getting Superfan and she wouldn't budge (even though new subscribers are getting it :down: ). I even tried for Showtime, and she shot that down too... Sucks... But better than nothing.


----------



## TyroneShoes

newsposter said:


> ok boys and girls, i figured out how to get a FREE HRXX...I wrote to DTV using the feedback form and it was about getting receivers from an authorized vendor..he wrote back to me and said dont go there, you can get a free upgrade to an mpeg4 receiver
> 
> so i'm betting if you write in and ask an innocent question..not even saying you want an upgrade, you can get one for FREE
> 
> Now, You are eligible for a no cost upgrade of your MPEG-2 HD receiver to an MPEG-4 HD receiver (installation charges may apply). With an MPEG-4 HD receiver and HD Access you'll be able to see our expanded lineup of HD programming. So instead of checking equipment elsewhere and to take advantage of this special offer, please call us at 1-800-531-5000


I am convinced that the tipping point for getting treated properly is to make sure that the conversation at some point raises the question about other vendors. The reality of competition seems to make them nut up, even if you are bluffing.

I think if you never mention other vendors they will pretend that they are the only game in town and that they might think they have you over a barrel. The second you let them know that you might be better off to put all of their equipment up on eBay and take a chance on cable or that smokin' deal from DISH or FIOS, things definitely change in your favor. Just don't make it a threat, or they will stonewall you out of spite, even though that is in nobody's best interests.

Mention that it sounds like you have a decision to make, or that your brother-in-law has cable and it looks great and costs less and has the channels you want. The second they realize you may be leaning towards a different vendor, things change in your favor. But take the conversation there organically, and gently, for best effect.


----------



## Fezmid

Fezmid said:


> Well, I finally called and got a decent, but not great deal.
> 
> Free HR21 (not an upgrade)
> Second HR-21 for $99 (+$20 S/H which is kinda lame...)
> $10 off bill for $12 months
> Free dish/installation
> Free 8-port multiswitch
> New two-year commitment
> 
> I tried getting Superfan and she wouldn't budge (even though new subscribers are getting it :down: ). I even tried for Showtime, and she shot that down too... Sucks... But better than nothing.


Well, I got the "upgrade" on Friday. Unfortunately, DirecTV screwed up the workorder -- they split the HR21 "upgrade" into a separate order from the second HR21 for $99. The installer had no idea I was supposed to get a 2nd HD DVR. I called DirecTV while he was installing the dish, and they said to have him call his supervisor and change the work order. Great! When he finished the dish install, I told him that but he said he had no extra HD DVRs in the truck (and I could tell he wasn't lying since the truck was open...  ). He left, so I called them up again, waited on hold again, and the CSR told me that they screwed up and split the order up in two. He then gave me a phone number to call to get my 2nd HD DVR.

So I called that number (it was for a company called Direct Sat). Waited on hold for 20 minutes, was told I could "press 1 to leave a message," so did --- and was promptly disconnected.

Steaming mad, and not wanting to wait on hold any longer, I sent a nasty-gram to DirecTV telling them I either wanted my receiver Tuesday morning or I wanted it for free. I just got an email a few minutes ago apologizing and waiving the fee. Unfortunately, I won't get it until August 13th, but for free, I'll wait.

So once again DirecTV comes through. They might not be perfect in their service, but at least (unlike cable) they have always made it up to me.

PS: Compared to the TiVo, this new DVR kinda sucks... I hope it grows on me.


----------



## desulliv

Fezmid said:


> [snip/]
> PS: Compared to the TiVo, this new DVR kinda sucks... I hope it grows on me.


It grew on me. I now use the HR10-250 for overflow and a backup.


----------



## michael1248

For better or for worse........

.......they threw out the bait and I bit.

Here are my questions:

The installer is scheduled for about 2 weeks from now. Allegedly (and I use the term very loosely!) I will be getting the new dish, their DVR (probably the HR21), the AM21 for OTA recording, keeping my owned HR10 active, a multiplexer and no 2 year commitment. All totally free. 

(1) Are there any "T's" that need to be crossed, or any "I's" that need to be dotted before my install? If the installer shows up without everything in place should I stop him right there, or allow a partial install?

(2) Will the multiplexer work for both the OTA and (new) satellite hookup for both the HR21 and the HR10.

(3) Will I lose my NY networks on my HR10 and will I receive them on my HR21?

It sounds like there are some upgrade/install horror stories out ther. I just want o be prepared.


----------



## Anubys

I'm one of those who got upgraded for free in March as part of the push to get NFL ST people up and running with mpeg4 equipment...

I got two HR-21s in place of my HR-10s...I called this weekend and asked for two AM-21 for the HR-21s...they insisted that I pay $50 for each...I escalated THREE times until someone from retention gave them to me for free...

I maintained that the HR-10s had OTA tuners and an upgrade is only good if I have that with the new units...it took some work but I got them...


----------



## stevel

If you are keeping your HR10, then there need to be four feeds from the dish. If you already have a multiswitch the installer should replace it with a new WB68. Note that you cannot diplex OTA with the new 5-LNB dishes (or at least not reasonably, though some people make it work.)

Your HR10 will continue to work as long as it has two feeds to the dish. The installer will need to install the 5LNB "Slimline" dish. If you have only four lines to the dish and have been diplexing an antenna, then one possible solution (which is what I do) is to add a SWM-8 module at the dish. Then one line is for the HR21 (serves both tuners), two legacy connections for the HR10 and one left over for OTA.

If a new multiswitch is installed, it will work fine for the HR10.

You will lose your NY networks if DirecTV offers HD locals for you, if not now, then soon. I was notified that mine will disappear this week (though I've had an HR20 for a year.) 

Make sure that both boxes are working and receiving channels in HD. I don't know how you intend to connect both boxes to the TV (there are many options) - you may need to obtain an additional HDMI cable.


----------



## desulliv

I don't have any trouble diplexing OTA to my two H10-250's. Diplexing to the HR20 and HR21 interferes with the signal on those units.


----------



## avoiceoreason

I kept on holding out and holding out on the upgrade but finally caved. My intention was to call and cancel Sunday Ticket and talk to retention about all the great offers I was getting from Comcast and Verizon (I was seriously considering making the switch), but somehow I got sidetracked by a CSR who made everything seem so (too?) easy. I just called the main # given to Sunday Ticket people to call to upgrade. Never went to retention. Never mentioned Comcast or Verizon.

Here is what I got:

Two HR21s - free
Two AM21s - free
new dish/installation - free
Superfan - free
$10 off for 6 months
I get to keep both of my HR10-250s

It was literally a conversation like this:

Me: I suppose I need to upgrade
CSR: no problem
Me: I want both of my HD receivers replaced for free
CSR: no problem
Me: and I want two AM21s for OTA locals. . . for free
CSR: no problem
Me: I want to keep all of my current receivers
CSR: no problem
Me: Can I get SuperFan for free?
CSR: no problem
Me: Can I get a programming credit?
CSR: no problem

I think the only reason I stopped asking for stuff was that I started to feel guilty. I was so caught off guard by the offering w/o any negotiating or hassle that I just signed on board w/o rethinking my Comcast/Verizon options. The only thing the CSR didn't budge on was the new 2-year commitment which BTW she didn't mention until I asked - seems kind of shady to me. 

Oh well, the upshot is I get to try out the HR-21, if I hate them I can always go back to my HR10-250s for OTA locals, and now I don't have to think about what I am going to do for TV for another two years.

All-in-all, no hassle and everything I wanted and then some, so I am pleased.


----------



## mhn2

Wow! Did you lay back and smoke a cigarette afterwards?


----------



## Anubys

mhn2 said:


> Wow! Did you lay back and smoke a cigarette afterwards?


either that, or he woke up! 

great deal, though :up:


----------



## RS4

Anubys said:


> either that, or he woke up!
> 
> great deal, though :up:


Yeah, their growth has slowed down, so now they are back to being nice again - although it sounds like they hit you with the 2-year madness, so maybe 'nice' is being a little generous.


----------



## avoiceoreason

mhn2 said:


> Wow! Did you lay back and smoke a cigarette afterwards?


I actually hung up and just stared at the phone for a few minutes in disbelief.



> although it sounds like they hit you with the 2-year madness, so maybe 'nice' is being a little generous.


Ironically I come home yesterday to find a letter from DTv telling me I need to upgrade and they will do it for free and "There is NO COMMITMENT required. There are NO STRINGS attached."

And I didn't add the emphasis - the letter had those statement in all caps. So I will be calling back to get out of the 2yr commitment shortly.


----------



## jimb726

avoiceoreason said:


> I actually hung up and just stared at the phone for a few minutes in disbelief.
> 
> Ironically I come home yesterday to find a letter from DTv telling me I need to upgrade and they will do it for free and "There is NO COMMITMENT required. There are NO STRINGS attached."
> 
> And I didn't add the emphasis - the letter had those statement in all caps. So I will be calling back to get out of the 2yr commitment shortly.


Soooo...you got two recievers, two OTA add ons, a dish upgrade, installation, Superfan, 60 dollars and kept your legacy equipment, all for free. And now you want to call back and get out of a commitment with a company that just bent over backwards for your business. Thats pretty ambitious.


----------



## avoiceoreason

jimb726 said:


> Soooo...you got two recievers, two OTA add ons, a dish upgrade, installation, Superfan, 60 dollars and kept your legacy equipment, all for free. And now you want to call back and get out of a commitment with a company that just bent over backwards for your business. Thats pretty ambitious.


Not asking for something they didn't offer. They explicitly stated it . . . in all caps no less!

In all likelihood I will stay w/ DTV anyway since I've been w/ them for 8yrs or so, but better to keep the options open.

Besides, if I were to leave they get all of their equipment back, and my HR10-250s were owned anyway so IMO they weren't exactly "bending over backwards" by letting me keep them.


----------



## jnelaine

avoiceoreason said:


> Here is what I got:
> 
> Two HR21s - free
> Two AM21s - free
> new dish/installation - free
> Superfan - free
> $10 off for 6 months
> I get to keep both of my HR10-250s
> 
> ...Oh well, the upshot is I get to try out the HR-21, if I hate them I can always go back to my HR10-250s for OTA locals, and now I don't have to think about what I am going to do for TV for another two years.


Wow, sounds like you got a great deal. I also got the "NO COMMITMENT" letter in the mail, so I'm going to bite the bullet and give them a call. I am hoping to be able to keep my HR10-250s like you, but one of them is leased. I assume they'll make me give that one back. Were either of your HR10-250s leased?


----------



## RS4

avoiceoreason said:


> Not asking for something they didn't offer. They explicitly stated it . . . in all caps no less!
> 
> In all likelihood I will stay w/ DTV anyway since I've been w/ them for 8yrs or so, but better to keep the options open.
> 
> Besides, if I were to leave they get all of their equipment back, and my HR10-250s were owned anyway so IMO they weren't exactly "bending over backwards" by letting me keep them.


Take advantage of it while you can. The company did not bend over backwards as was expressed. The fact is that their growth has slooowed way down, and now all of a sudden they are becoming more generous with their offer.


----------



## avoiceoreason

jnelaine said:


> Wow, sounds like you got a great deal. I also got the "NO COMMITMENT" letter in the mail, so I'm going to bite the bullet and give them a call. I am hoping to be able to keep my HR10-250s like you, but one of them is leased. I assume they'll make me give that one back. Were either of your HR10-250s leased?


Umm, yes and no. I owned both of my HR10-250s, but one got switched to a lease somehow at one point. I got it switched back to owned, but then it became listed as leased again a few months later.

Long story short, I got tired of calling about it so I left it alone. So to the CSR I most recently spoke with, she would have seen it listed as one owned, one leased, just like you.

So hopefully that means you will be able to keep both of yours as well.


----------



## Cabinwood

I got the dreaded call a few weeks ago. I've been told by a couple different installers that have been in the neighborhood that they wouldn't even attempt an install here because of the trees. We bought our own dish, and installed it last week and got a pretty good signal on all the satellites. We were pretty lucky, just plopped it up there on the roof and picked up the signals right away  

They gave me two of the HR21's and I did get to keep my HD Tivo's which I'll use for SD. So far, though, they haven't removed the Distant Locals in HD or change my plan from the one I've had for a number of years now  I'm pretty pleased with the new receiver, haven't had any problems yet. It's got some features I really like, but I do miss the dual tuners...


----------



## stevel

The HR21 has dual tuners. What it doesn't have is "dual live buffers", though you can fake it somewhat.


----------



## Anubys

for everyone who's getting upgraded...one more thing you can ask for is a SWM, which allows you to run ONE cable to each HR20 or HR21 instead of two (and still get the dual tuner recording)...


----------



## newsposter

Anubys said:


> for everyone who's getting upgraded...one more thing you can ask for is a SWM, which allows you to run ONE cable to each HR20 or HR21 instead of two (and still get the dual tuner recording)...


oh wow are they giving them free from HQ now? i thought that was something you had to fork out $$$ for post installation?


----------



## Anubys

newsposter said:


> oh wow are they giving them free from HQ now? i thought that was something you had to fork out $$$ for post installation?


they said they will do it as part of the installation "if the technician decides it's needed"...I'm having a "searching for satellite 771 problem" and they're sending a tech to see what's wrong...I told them I expect a SWM as part of the fix and that's the answer they gave me...

the problem is either with my current multiswitch or with the dish...either way, I made it clear that I expect the SWM and the "customer care" person didn't really argue with me...

at any rate, if you already have one cable and would require a second cable run, I would say that qualifies as a "technician deciding a SWM is needed", don't you think?


----------



## jimb726

avoiceoreason said:


> Not asking for something they didn't offer. They explicitly stated it . . . in all caps no less!
> 
> In all likelihood I will stay w/ DTV anyway since I've been w/ them for 8yrs or so, but better to keep the options open.
> 
> Besides, if I were to leave they get all of their equipment back, and my HR10-250s were owned anyway so IMO they weren't exactly "bending over backwards" by letting me keep them.


No you said the letter came after you had made the original agreement. That would indicate that you had already made a deal and were now trying modify it.


----------



## Anubys

jimb726 said:


> No you said the letter came after you had made the original agreement. That would indicate that you had already made a deal and were now trying modify it.


so what?

why is this a problem for you? contracts get renegotiated all the time...I don't get the reason for the hostility, to be honest with you...


----------



## jimb726

Anubys said:


> so what?
> 
> why is this a problem for you? contracts get renegotiated all the time...I don't get the reason for the hostility, to be honest with you...


How often do you renegotiate contract several days after signing an original one? And this isnt a renegotiation, this is an entirely seperate contract. I am not being hostile, I just dont understand why, after getting what he obviously felt was a great deal (he said several times that he couldnt believe how easy it was) that he feels the need to go back to the well. And what are you going to do when the installer doesnt show up with a SWM? If they can fix it without one, you arent going to get one despite telling the CSR what you expect. The SWM's are supposed to be used in houses where there is a single run to a room where two are needed. It sounds like you already have two run to your unit. I hope they bring it, but last I read they were only available in a few select markets. I hope yours is one of them.


----------



## Anubys

jimb726 said:


> How often do you renegotiate contract several days after signing an original one? And this isnt a renegotiation, this is an entirely seperate contract. I am not being hostile, I just dont understand why, after getting what he obviously felt was a great deal (he said several times that he couldnt believe how easy it was) that he feels the need to go back to the well. And what are you going to do when the installer doesnt show up with a SWM? If they can fix it without one, you arent going to get one despite telling the CSR what you expect. The SWM's are supposed to be used in houses where there is a single run to a room where two are needed. It sounds like you already have two run to your unit. I hope they bring it, but last I read they were only available in a few select markets. I hope yours is one of them.


I renegotiate any time I find out that someone is getting a better price...it's being a smart consumer...

and I do need to run a new HR21 to a bedroom with only 1 cable...but even if I didn't, I expect to get what I ask for since I am a high-end customer who buys the top packages...

you can be meek and take what they give you, I guess...but I'll gladly negotiate for a better price and keep as much of my money as I can...moreover, I see no reason why WE should behave in the manner that YOU find "appropriate" or prescribe to us as appropriate...


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Once I refi'ed a mortgage a month after it closed


----------



## jnelaine

Anubys said:


> for everyone who's getting upgraded...one more thing you can ask for is a SWM, which allows you to run ONE cable to each HR20 or HR21 instead of two (and still get the dual tuner recording)...


I'm glad you mentioned the SWM. I'm wondering if I need it. I currently have two lines running to all of my HR10-250s, so you wouldn't think I need one. HOWEVER, I also am using my current multiswitch to inject my OTA antenna signal into each line and then it gets diplexed out before each TV. I thought that I heard that this wasn't possible with the new dish and the HR21+AM21. Is that right? If so, I guess I would need a SWM so I can pump two satellite channels down one wire and then use the other wire for my antenna signal.

So, what do you think? Will my current setup work with the HR21 (and AM21) or do I need to use SWM?


----------



## Anubys

jnelaine said:


> I'm glad you mentioned the SWM. I'm wondering if I need it. I currently have two lines running to all of my HR10-250s, so you wouldn't think I need one. HOWEVER, I also am using my current multiswitch to inject my OTA antenna signal into each line and then it gets diplexed out before each TV. I thought that I heard that this wasn't possible with the new dish and the HR21+AM21. Is that right? If so, I guess I would need a SWM so I can pump two satellite channels down one wire and then use the other wire for my antenna signal.
> 
> So, what do you think? Will my current setup work with the HR21 (and AM21) or do I need to use SWM?


I have my OTA pre-wired to each room in the house...so I never cared about that part of the install 

here's a link to a thread on DBStalk...post number 5 has a diagram that should answer all your questions...

here's a link to the first look thread which has a really good pic of it...


----------



## jnelaine

Anubys said:


> I have my OTA pre-wired to each room in the house...so I never cared about that part of the install
> 
> here's a link to a thread on DBStalk...post number 5 has a diagram that should answer all your questions...
> 
> here's a link to the first look thread which has a really good pic of it...


Cool - I like pictures and diagrams!  Thanks for the links. It looks like I will definitely need to go with a SWM.


----------



## memnoch

I figured I should also put this here because this subject has its own thread.
Here's what I got today.

1 HR20 or 21 replacement for HR10-250 - I will own it being I bought the HR10 and can keep the HR10 as well, no 2 year commitment needed if this was all I did, but....
1 additional HR20 or 21, leased, requiring a 2 year commitment.
New dish setup, either SL5 or possibly SL3
Free Install
No shipping charge
$10 off for 12 months
Showtime free for 3 months


----------



## Citivas

Has anyone asked them for an HR-22 for free yet? I am curious what their response is:

a) Never heard of it
b) Can't do it with the free upgrade
c) "Our systems have no way to designate a specific model other than HD DVR"
d) Can do it but you have to pay more (since it is only $30 more retail that in theory shouldn't be a big deal)

I am betting a or c but who knows. I have been dreading conversion on my final 10-250 unit and having used both for almost 2 years I remain convinced the 10-250 is a better design, but conversion is inevitable unless I decide to go with cable and Tivo. The less recording capacity of my HR20 has been one of my major sticking points (yes it has a comparable HD but it wastes too much on reserved space and buffering), so if I can get an HR22 AND no new 2-year commitment I might bite. I refuse another 2-year commitment because they burned me on it before when I got the first HR20 which was totally useless for the first 8 months but even though I reported that within days they refused to replace it and cited my 2-year commitment as the reason I was SOL. Won't let them burn me again even if it means leaving after 12 years...


----------



## Citivas

As a follow-up, I decided to just call DirecTV and see what they would say. I called the regular # but it said Monday was their busiest day and they routed me to the automatic response system. I tried a few words to try and get a real person and finally tried "Cancel." Within 10 seconds I had a live person. I think it automatically routes you to retention.

I never mentioned canceling again or competing services. I simply said I had been offered the free upgrade before but had not done it because I was concerned about the built-in storage capacity of the HR20/21 based on my experience with the 20 versus my TiVo but I had heard they now had the HR22. I said I also heard they were no longer requiring the 2-year commitment for long-standing existing customers. I said I was only interested in doing it now if I was definitely getting the HR22 and no commitment. She said fine with absolutely no hesitation or need to check with anyone. I probably could have pressed for free programming credits but since they were not asking for a commitment I wasn&#8217;t focused on it (I feel the free programming is a fair quid pro quo for a commitment). And I get to keep my 10-250.

They setup a delivery for next Monday. She insists her system allowed her to select the HR22 and that the work order expressly states the customer will only accept an HR22 delivery.

Now despite all this I remain skeptical until I have this HR22 in-hand. I think there is a very strong chance they will show up with an HR21 anyway and I will have to turn them away, or possibly that they actually read the work order before coming and call to say they don&#8217;t have the HR22 (less likely). I would even rank the likelihood they simply don&#8217;t show up Monday without warning over actually arriving with an HR22, given my past experiences. So I&#8217;ll let people know after Monday. That said, even if this happens I figure this will lead to an HR22 because when it doesn&#8217;t show I will call DirecTV back and point out my work order and that I was very clear and now have been put out waiting for a bad delivery, etc. and they will probably end up giving me one (or enough programming credits to just go out and buy one) for my trouble even if that was not their regular policy. We&#8217;ll see.

BTW, on a related note, if I turn-off service on my 10-250 and don&#8217;t have coax cables or a phone line to it, am I still able to view the existing programs I have recorded on it, and does that remain true after 14 days of no calls, etc.?


----------



## Citivas

There may aleady be evidence that an HR22 won't be showing up next Monday. I signed-up for a user aco**** on directv.com (never bothered to before) and reviewed my order. It says "Swap Replace HR20 IRD" That's the only detail it provides -- I don't get access to the full work order. So its possible it is just their generic tag for all HD DVR swaps. Again, we'll see...

I then called Ironwood Communications, the installer they said would handle it, directly. I had them read me the work order. At first they said it just said "DirecTV HD DVR" and did not specify any model. I then relayed that it had to be an HR22 or I would not accept delivery. They then said they would add that note to the account and said, "oh, I see DirecTV already did that." This person was not technical at all and had no idea what an HD DVR was, let alone the differences in the models. My guess is all the stuff about the HR22 is buried in some notes that won't be read by the tech, who probably doesn't have a stock of HR22's lying around anyway, and they will show with an HR21. But since there is a brick wall between the customer and the actual installers and people who understand the boxes until they show up, not sure what else I can do...


----------



## shibby191

I highly doubt many installers have HR22's yet. Best Buy *just* got them in a few days ago. Installers will certainly be getting rid of their HR21 stock first before rolling out HR22s. You might get lucky though.

FYI (in case you haven't stopped by DBSTalk) that the HR22 is exactly the same as the HR21 but with a larger hard drive.


----------



## Citivas

shibby191 said:


> I highly doubt many installers have HR22's yet. Best Buy *just* got them in a few days ago. Installers will certainly be getting rid of their HR21 stock first before rolling out HR22s. You might get lucky though.
> 
> FYI (in case you haven't stopped by DBSTalk) that the HR22 is exactly the same as the HR21 but with a larger hard drive.


Yes, I know on both counts. But that larger HD makes all the difference. UI preference for the Tivo aside, my main sticking point on making a DirecTV HD DVR my primary box is that in practice it holds about 20 percent less programming than my Tivo. They have similar HD's but for whatever reason with the reserved space and longer buffer, etc., and with the exact same season passes all on exactly the same versions of the channels, I loss my programming too quickly on the D* unit. So the larger HD makes all the difference for me.

I know the score on the CSR's promising a particular HR-series unit and the installers showing up with something different, so I will be surprised if I actually get the HR22, depsite all their assurances and those of the installer's company... It's too bad the DirecTV CSR's continue to make false promises. It really is in DirecTV's power to have better trained, better controlled CSR's and sales reps and they make a choice not to...


----------



## shibby191

Citivas said:


> Yes, I know on both counts. But that larger HD makes all the difference.


I'm sure you know but for those that don't, you can get an eSata drive and plug it in to expand your space. Best to do when it's new since it's not added to the internal, it replaces it. So you can slap a 1 TB drive on it and record forever. :up:


----------



## Anubys

also for those who don't know, the HR22 comes with a 500 GB drive instead of 300 for the HR20 and HR21...


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## mrpope

Anubys said:


> also for those who don't know, the HR22 comes with a 500 GB drive instead of 300 for the HR20 and HR21...


thanks, was just going search that one.


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## BigBearf

Does anyone know if the HR22 has RF remote control or is it only IR. I would like to put 3 HR22s in the same room and presently it can be accomplished only with RF units.
Thanks,
BigBearf


----------



## Anubys

Anubys said:


> also for those who don't know, the HR22 comes with a 500 GB drive instead of 300 for the HR20 and HR21...


fixing my own post...don't want to use the Edit and have people miss it...

the HR20 and HR21 have a 320 GB drive, not 300...


----------



## Citivas

Anubys said:


> fixing my own post...don't want to use the Edit and have people miss it...
> 
> the HR20 and HR21 have a 320 GB drive, not 300...


I thought the first HR20's had 300 and it switched to 320 either with the HR21 or the later series HR20's. Anyway, splitting hairs...

But it's worth noting that the increase to 500GB has a bigger impact than it might seem from those #'s because they don't have to proportionately increase the reserved space D* holds of approximately 100GB. So the practical program recording space increases from 200/220 to 400.


----------



## avoiceoreason

jimb726 said:


> How often do you renegotiate contract several days after signing an original one? And this isnt a renegotiation, this is an entirely seperate contract. I am not being hostile, I just dont understand why, after getting what he obviously felt was a great deal (he said several times that he couldnt believe how easy it was) that he feels the need to go back to the well.


No offense taken. I can see your point of view.

But as an update, I was essentially forced to "go back to the well" after the installer failed to show up. After rescheduling the install through DTV I simply asked if I was under a commitment to which the reply was "yes, but your commitment expires next month." To which I asked, "will be I under a new commitment after that expiry?" To which the CSR reponded, "No." Even with the new equipment upgrade? "Nope."

So no commitment, and again, no threats or requests or anything. Just a simple question.

I think DTV is in the "just get it done" phase of the swap program and really just wants to make sure they keep their long-time, well-paying customers with as little hassle to those consumers as possible. And you know what? It worked. I was seriously thinking of finally switching to cable/FIOS, but by DTV making it an easy and painless process they kept my business.

Good for them, good for me.


----------



## Anubys

fwiw, I have an installation "supervisor" coming to look at my problem tomorrow and I made sure they will have all the hardware to install a SWM on the truck (we'll see about that)...

so basically: IF the hardware is on the truck and IF the supervisor determines that I need it (that's very probable), I will have SWM for free...


----------



## memnoch

I agree with them making it painless and even told the rep that two days ago. I called, knowing I might try an upgrade but ready to leave for cable/FIOS for several reason I won't get into here. But the rep didn't even put me through to retention. he made me a great offer and after feeling bad for wasting her time because of taking so much time thinking about it and saying UMM about 30 times, I finally took her up on her offer and said you made this way too easy.


----------



## jimb726

avoiceoreason said:


> No offense taken. I can see your point of view.
> 
> But as an update, I was essentially forced to "go back to the well" after the installer failed to show up. After rescheduling the install through DTV I simply asked if I was under a commitment to which the reply was "yes, but your commitment expires next month." To which I asked, "will be I under a new commitment after that expiry?" To which the CSR reponded, "No." Even with the new equipment upgrade? "Nope."
> 
> So no commitment, and again, no threats or requests or anything. Just a simple question.
> 
> I think DTV is in the "just get it done" phase of the swap program and really just wants to make sure they keep their long-time, well-paying customers with as little hassle to those consumers as possible. And you know what? It worked. I was seriously thinking of finally switching to cable/FIOS, but by DTV making it an easy and painless process they kept my business.
> 
> Good for them, good for me.


I can see yours as well. After thinking about it. The thing that is so maddening about it all is now everything has gone to pot for your install. If they could just do the freaking basics correctly, it would be so much easier to do business with them. I hope you get it worked out. Good luck.


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## RS4

memnoch said:


> I agree with them making it painless and even told the rep that two days ago. I called, knowing I might try an upgrade but ready to leave for cable/FIOS for several reason I won't get into here. But the rep didn't even put me through to retention. he made me a great offer and after feeling bad for wasting her time because of taking so much time thinking about it and saying UMM about 30 times, I finally took her up on her offer and said you made this way too easy.


It seems after a couple of years, they have finally come to their senses. I wonder how many of those of us who left because of their arrogant manners would have stayed?


----------



## Citivas

RS4 said:


> It seems after a couple of years, they have finally come to their senses. I wonder how many of those of us who left because of their arrogant manners would have stayed?


I think some people are getting lucky experiences but it's too early to say they've changed their ways. I have been through it with them for 12.5 years. They were great until News Corp acquired them. I've had to deal with 4 reps this week so far (5 if you count the person activating my new box) and while the first did make it easy and was pleasant and said yes to everything, the later reps disowner much of what she said and the supervisors were as arrogant, misinformed and deceptive as they used to be. There's been no fundamental change.


----------



## moab747

Dtv just called. I have called twice in the past two weeks trying to get the swap deal that I want. I want to keep my HR10-250, get rid of my GXCEBOT and have no new two year commitment. Both times they were willing to do all kinds of deals but all had the commitment. I meant to call this morning and didn't get around to it. They called just now and offered what I wanted. He brought up no commitment necessary and when I told him I had to keep my 10-250 he said no problem. At one point he said he was starting to record the call and I went through everything again to be sure. When I asked about the AM21 tuner he said I would get an HR20 with internal tuner because I get my locals OTA. I imagine I will get what ever is on the truck but that's OK I don't mind buying the AM21. But I'll call Dtv first and see if I can get a free one if its not an HR20. I'll confirm the details when the installer gets here and just cancel if its not right.


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## Anubys

no love for me on the SWM...not available in my area; which is what I expected...will call tomorrow and give them hell for saying they would have it for me...but I don't expect anything at this point...


----------



## shibby191

Anubys said:


> no love for me on the SWM...not available in my area; which is what I expected...will call tomorrow and give them hell for saying they would have it for me...but I don't expect anything at this point...


They are still a bit pricy but available on places like Solid Signal. It's down to $139 there for an SWM8. Not a bad price at all for a do-it yourselfer.


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## jnelaine

Anubys said:


> no love for me on the SWM...not available in my area; which is what I expected...will call tomorrow and give them hell for saying they would have it for me...but I don't expect anything at this point...


So what does that mean that it's not available in your area? I'm right around the corner in Burke, so this would affect me too. Does it just mean that installers in our area don't carry it? If I purchased a SWM myself, can I get the installers to install it (with maybe a $20 on the side)?


----------



## Anubys

jnelaine said:


> So what does that mean that it's not available in your area? I'm right around the corner in Burke, so this would affect me too. Does it just mean that installers in our area don't carry it? If I purchased a SWM myself, can I get the installers to install it (with maybe a $20 on the side)?


I have not checked if it's true or not (too lazy, I guess)...but usually, DirecTV will release hardware to selected areas (e.g. California & Arizona or something like that) before having it available nationally...

so it's possible that it's not available in NoVa yet...

I'm not a DIY guy...I have an installer who would do it for $75...it's less than an hour worth of work but that is the hourly rate...I just have to decide that I want to get it...


----------



## BamaDave

I received a call today for a Direct TV CSR and she basically told me my HR10-250s were being phased out. They said that they will come out and replace my dish with a new 5 LNB version and give me two HD-DVR receivers. Well initially I was caught by surprise and kinda went on the defense as I like our IiVos and dont want anything else. She said that I could keep the receivers and the new equipment and installation would be free of charge. I told her to give me a call back as I needed to think about it. Can someone please tell me what I should ask for, equipment wise? I hate giving up what I have but it looks like I have no choice. 
Thanks,
David


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## stevel

It's not that you have "no choice", but that if you want to continue watching any HD from DirecTV, you will have to do it on a DirecTV box and not the HR10. The HR10 will continue to serve as a standard-def recorder for the existing SD channels, plus OTA if you use that.

You will want to ask for HR21 or HR22, plus AM21 if you use an antenna (for each), and a multiswitch with enough outputs for all your boxes (a WB68 should do.). This assumes that you have four lines coming from the dish into the house. They will install a 5-sat dish which will work with the HR10. You will have a new two-year commitment.


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## michael1248

Stevel,

I am in the same scenario as BamaDave.

My CSR assured me that I would not have a 2 year commitment. I asked no less then 5 times during the conversation. Same reply: No commitment.

Also, when I got a call from a Texas based install company the guy had no idea what an AM21 was and no record of my request for one. He put me on hold and researched. He found out what a AM21 was.

As it turned out, my install was rescheduled due to Tropical Storm Fay.

What do you think I should do if the guy shows up with no AM21 and asks me to sign something. Is there a "hidden" 2-year commitment somewhere on his installation sign-off sheet? Also, I plan to let him do the install even if he doesn't show up with the AM21. How should I deal with D* after that?


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## BamaDave

Thanks for your response Steve! And, yes I do believe I have a choice as I have been committed to Direct TV for years based on purchasing what I consider expensive units back in the day at $1000 bucks a pop. Now Im being told that they are becoming obsolete is somewhat disheartening. I actually believe they will more than likely do whatever they can to keep my business, thus my enquiry. I believe Ill keep one of my boat anchors running as it has expanded memory but will the TiVo portion still work as a DVR even if its in SD after the change? Additionally, it there a advantage of the HR22 of the HR21?

Thanks for your time in responding! 

David


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## RS4

michael1248 said:


> Stevel,
> 
> I am in the same scenario as BamaDave.
> 
> My CSR assured me that I would not have a 2 year commitment. I asked no less then 5 times during the conversation. Same reply: No commitment.
> 
> Also, when I got a call from a Texas based install company the guy had no idea what an AM21 was and no record of my request for one. He put me on hold and researched. He found out what a AM21 was.
> 
> As it turned out, my install was rescheduled due to Tropical Storm Fay.
> 
> What do you think I should do if the guy shows up with no AM21 and asks me to sign something. Is there a "hidden" 2-year commitment somewhere on his installation sign-off sheet? Also, I plan to let him do the install even if he doesn't show up with the AM21. How should I deal with D* after that?


From what I have read elsewhere, many people have said they were told there would be no commitment, but are being told by the installer they have to sign one, so be careful. D* can be very shady at times, so you have to look out for yourself.


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## stevel

The only difference between an HR22 and HR21, that I know of, is that the HR22 does not require the use of external "B-Band Converters", the little gray or black boxes that are attached inline to the sat feed. Since these fail for some people, not needing them is good.

Do you have an antenna attached to your HR10? If not, then you have no use for an AM21.

I would strongly recommend that you get "no commitment" in writing, though if you expect to stay with DirecTV for two years, it really doesn't matter.

The HR10 will continue to serve as a standard-def DirecTV TiVo for the forseeable future, as long as the installer does not disable it by removing the access card. Of course, you'll need to pay an additional receiver fee, but won't have to pay any more in DVR service fees.


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## Citivas

stevel said:


> The only difference between an HR22 and HR21, that I know of, is that the HR22 does not require the use of external "B-Band Converters", the little gray or black boxes that are attached inline to the sat feed. Since these fail for some people, not needing them is good.


The HR22 DOES require the external B-Band, just like the HR20 and HR21. They came in the box.

The advantage of the HR22 is twice the recording capacity.


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## donmarrow

I have two of these (HR10-250s) and DTV said they will upgrade me to HR22s for free - should I do it - the HR22s are $199 a piece at Best Buy.

I do love TIVO but want to record the new HD MPEG4 channels.


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## donmarrow

Subscribed to post


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## jimbop99

donmarrow said:


> I have two of these (HR10-250s) and DTV said they will upgrade me to HR22s for free - should I do it - the HR22s are $199 a piece at Best Buy.
> 
> I do love TIVO but want to record the new HD MPEG4 channels.


I just got the HR21 installed a week ago. It's a little sluggish but I like it. The only thing I miss is the dual buffers.


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## Anubys

donmarrow said:


> I have two of these (HR10-250s) and DTV said they will upgrade me to HR22s for free - should I do it - the HR22s are $199 a piece at Best Buy.
> 
> I do love TIVO but want to record the new HD MPEG4 channels.


upgrade...other than the dual live buffer, the HR2x are better than the HR10...you get used to the new interface pretty quickly and it's much faster to do things...


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## jnelaine

I'm sure this has been posted elsewhere, but I called DirecTV tonight to start talking to them about swapping my HR10-250s out for HR2x units. I asked him how long the HD channels would continue to work on my HR10s and he said the cut-off date was 2/14/2009. SD channels will still work fine, but the HD channels are going away as of that date.


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## gworkman

jnelaine said:


> I'm sure this has been posted elsewhere, but I called DirecTV tonight to start talking to them about swapping my HR10-250s out for HR2x units. I asked him how long the HD channels would continue to work on my HR10s and he said the cut-off date was 2/14/2009. SD channels will still work fine, but the HD channels are going away as of that date.


Merry fricken' Valentines! 

That date seems suspiciously close to the analog shut down. It's also a Saturday. I think the info is BOGUS !!


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## bigpuma

jnelaine said:


> I'm sure this has been posted elsewhere, but I called DirecTV tonight to start talking to them about swapping my HR10-250s out for HR2x units. I asked him how long the HD channels would continue to work on my HR10s and he said the cut-off date was 2/14/2009. SD channels will still work fine, but the HD channels are going away as of that date.


There is very little chance that this information is correct. I highly doubt DirecTV actually has a specific date and even if they did they wouldn't share it with CSRs at this time and it would probably change anyway. One thing you will learn reading these threads is that CSRs tend to be wrong way more than they are right in areas like this.


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## shibby191

I agree a lowly CSR isn't going to have a specific date like that. But I certainly wouldn't expect the MPEG2 HD to last much longer then that honestly. I could see the national channels (EPSN, TNT, etc) get shut down this fall or by year's end. But the NY DNS might be a sticky one that hangs on for a while until more apartment buildings (MDU's) can upgrade.


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## Citivas

Anubys said:


> upgrade...other than the dual live buffer, the HR2x are better than the HR10...you get used to the new interface pretty quickly and it's much faster to do things...


I now have two of the HR2x series and finally sidelined the 10-250. I have been using HR2x series since October 2006. And I still don't think it is "better" than the 10-250, DLB aside, so its a pretty subjective call either way...

BTW, unless you either get the new HR22 or upgrade your hard drive (either internally or using an eSATA cable externally), as equipped the HR20/21 will net you about 20 percent less recording capacity than the 10-250 so be ready for that. If you don't get the HR22 up-front you will probably want to get the external drive right away since once you install it, you will have no access to the internal drive and would lose easy access to any shows already recorded. The external drive is also a cost-effective solution with HDD's being so cheap, especially if you're getting the box free.


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## shibby191

Citivas said:


> BTW, unless you either get the new HR22 or upgrade your hard drive (either internally or using an eSATA cable externally), as equipped the HR20/21 will net you about 20 percent less recording capacity than the 10-250 so be ready for that.


The HR20 and HR21 can record around 50 hours of HD (in MPEG4 which it all is now). Does 200 SD hours. HR22 with the larger hard drive will obviously be more.

I think the HR10-250 is only 30 hours HD recording time.


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## Anubys

Citivas said:


> I now have two of the HR2x series and finally sidelined the 10-250. I have been using HR2x series since October 2006. And I still don't think it is "better" than the 10-250, DLB aside, so its a pretty subjective call either way...


it is clearly subjective...UI is just something you get used to...the Tivo interface is better but the speed of the HR2x more than makes up for any shortcomings (anyone who tried to re-order their SPs will attest to that!)...the HR2x have a more features...

and as was pointed out, more recording capacity...heck, ANYONE can expand the recording capacity as opposed to the HR10 where you have to open up the box and know what you're doing...

but we're going off topic here...so I guess we can leave it as "decide for yourself"


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## TyroneShoes

gworkman said:


> Merry fricken' Valentines!
> 
> That date seems suspiciously close to the analog shut down. It's also a Saturday...


Maybe that is exactly the strategy. I expect major confusion surrounding analog shutoff, so a little thing like HD no longer working on a few holdouts' DVRs could get lost easily in that shuffle.


----------



## Cabinwood

I picked up another HD DVR today and called to activate it, but I'm surprised they still haven't turned off the distant HD networks to my HR10. I was sure when I called today, they would notice it...

I haven't been able to set them up to control the volume on my receiver yet, it will turn it off but not change the volume


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## Citivas

shibby191 said:


> The HR20 and HR21 can record around 50 hours of HD (in MPEG4 which it all is now). Does 200 SD hours. HR22 with the larger hard drive will obviously be more.
> 
> I think the HR10-250 is only 30 hours HD recording time.


Those are the figures DirecTV claims but they are not real-world, at least in my tests. You can do a search for my previous posts on this, but I did an extended side-by-side real-world test for a year-plus. I had exactly the same season passes (over 40 of them) setup for the exact same channels with the exact same mix of HD versus SD on both my 10-250 and my HR-20. Both had the same save criteria per show (i.e. the mix of keep versus save when the HD is full). I watched daily for when oldest shows were auto-deleted as a result and the net result was consistently a significant advantage to the 10-250. I averaged over time and rounded approximately 20%. The net result was we were losing shows much faster on the HR-20.

Part of this is a result, I believe, of the 100GB that DirecTV reserves on the HR2x series for its larger buffer, OS and equivilent of its showcase. I suspect the other reason may be that they base their 50 hour claim on their calculations of a best case MPEG-4 HD recording, but in practice I believe most of mine were MPEG-2 and it was the real-world not best case. All of my HD recordings were of the NYC market major networks (in the 80's), which at the time were certainly on MPEG-2 and may still be. I am local to the NY market so I was getting the national East Coast feeds as my locals. The results may be different for others using more MPEG-4 but this is just a guess. The net result for me is I needed more than the HR20/21 offered internally to match the existing real world capacity of my 10-250 and an external eSATA drive was not an option for that location. UI issues aside (and I still prefer TiVo's and the "features" exclusively on the Tivo), this was a major reason why I was holding out with the 10-250 in my primary location. I just got the HR22 to fix that. I wish it had a larger drive (or that an external drive was practical for that location) but it should still improve on even the 10-250's better capacity over the HR-20.


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## shibby191

Ok, whatever you say. All I know is both my HR20 and HR21 can easily have well over 40 hours of HD recorded on them and still have space left. Olympics proved that pretty easily. Everyone's experience I'm sure is different. Oh well, if it's not enough, add a drive and you're done.


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## Citivas

shibby191 said:


> Ok, whatever you say. All I know is both my HR20 and HR21 can easily have well over 40 hours of HD recorded on them and still have space left. Olympics proved that pretty easily. Everyone's experience I'm sure is different. Oh well, if it's not enough, add a drive and you're done.


You can't really "add" a drive, you have to "replace" a drive, even if the new one is external, since the act of doing so prevents use of the previous one (and your SOL on all your previous recordings if you don't do it day one) and is therefore not additive. And not everyone can pragmatically use an external drive in their setup. Thus why I waited for the HR22. For those that can use an external drive, especially those just getting the box without an existing accumulation of programming, the eSATA is a great option.

My only point was to warn someone switching from a 10-250 to an HR20/21 (without an external drive or warranty-voiding internal hack in mind) that if they are used to filling their 10-250 they may run out of space even quicker with the unmodified HR20/21 -- much quicker in my case. If they think they will, they should consider the HR22 or an eSATA option up-front.


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## stevel

I disagree that the HR20/21 would fill up quicker. Now that most of the HD programming is MPEG4, it takes up less room on disk than the MPEG2 that the HR10 can record.


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## Anubys

you can also switch between the external and internal drives...so there's no SOL on recordings...you do have to set the SPs for each drive, though...


----------



## Citivas

stevel said:


> I disagree that the HR20/21 would fill up quicker. Now that most of the HD programming is MPEG4, it takes up less room on disk than the MPEG2 that the HR10 can record.


Again, it depends on what you record. We are still almost exclusively recording the East Coast feeds of the networks in the 80's for our HD shows. Not sure they are MPEG-4 yet. I discontinued the test a few months ago (season was over) so I can't speak to it factually. But it is a matter of fact, with substantial data points, that the HR20/21 was recording substantially (i.e. 20%) less than our 10-250 for the same programming during the last season, for the channels we recorded on.


----------



## Citivas

Anubys said:


> you can also switch between the external and internal drives...so there's no SOL on recordings...you do have to set the SPs for each drive, though...


When you say you can switch between drives, how exactly? If you are referring to unplugging/re-plugging the eSATA behind the box and resetting every time you want to see the other drives programming, I didn't count that as pragmatic. If you mean something else, I'd like to hear it. Thanks.


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Citivas said:


> When you say you can switch between drives, how exactly? If you are referring to unplugging/re-plugging the eSATA behind the box and resetting every time you want to see the other drives programming, I didn't count that as pragmatic. If you mean something else, I'd like to hear it. Thanks.


maybe not pragmatic but factual


----------



## shibby191

Citivas said:


> Again, it depends on what you record. We are still almost exclusively recording the East Coast feeds of the networks in the 80's for our HD shows. Not sure they are MPEG-4 yet. I discontinued the test a few months ago (season was over) so I can't speak to it factually. But it is a matter of fact, with substantial data points, that the HR20/21 was recording substantially (i.e. 20%) less than our 10-250 for the same programming during the last season, for the channels we recorded on.


You were recording MPEG2 which takes up a lot more space then MPEG4. Your east coast feeds are now in MPEG4 as well up in the upper 300s. The ones in the 80s are still MPEG2 but will be shut down soon enough. ALL HD on DirecTV is now MPEG4. Thus you can record many more hours of HD because it's in MPEG4. I don't think anyone discounts your findings, but you were recording MPEG2 and not MPEG4 which takes up less space (and is better quality).


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## stevel

Not quite all HD is MPEG4. I could not find evidence that HBOE-HD (501) is MPEG4. I'm sure it will be in time.


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## TyroneShoes

shibby191 said:


> ...you were recording MPEG2 and not MPEG4 which takes up less space (and is better quality).


There is no way to technically improve upon the original MPEG-2 signal, which all OTA and most sat channels are backhauled to DTV as. Also, without repealing the laws of physics there is no way to avoid further artifacting when chaining dissimilar algorithms together such as converting MPEG-4 to MPEG-2, which results in what's called concatenated sequences, and which means that DTV's end product can be _nearly _as good as the original MPEG-2 but will never quite match that quality level. It's just not technically possible, nor will it ever be.

That said, it's still pretty close. Even trained eyes typically can't tell the difference. My opinion based on what I see is that they look about the same, while the facts say DTV's MPEG-4 can only closely match the quality level of MPEG-2, and never be actually better, or even as good.


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## shibby191

TyroneShoes said:


> There is no way to technically improve upon the original MPEG-2 signal, which all OTA and most sat channels are backhauled to DTV as. Also, without repealing the laws of physics there is no way to avoid further artifacting when chaining dissimilar algorithms together such as converting MPEG-4 to MPEG-2, which results in what's called concatenated sequences, and which means that DTV's end product can be _nearly _as good as the original MPEG-2 but will never quite match that quality level. It's just not technically possible, nor will it ever be.
> 
> That said, it's still pretty close. Even trained eyes typically can't tell the difference. My opinion based on what I see is that they look about the same, while the facts say DTV's MPEG-4 can only closely match the quality level of MPEG-2, and never be actually better, or even as good.


I only meant that on DirecTV the MPEG4 HD channels are much better quality then the MPEG2 HD channels because they compressed the heck out of the MPEG2 because of lack of bandwidth (HD Lite). No such problem exists for MPEG4. Thus while technically MPEG4 and MPEG2 can be no different in quality, it is on DirecTV simply because of compression.


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## TyroneShoes

Citivas said:


> When you say you can switch between drives, how exactly? If you are referring to unplugging/re-plugging the eSATA behind the box and resetting every time you want to see the other drives programming, I didn't count that as pragmatic. If you mean something else, I'd like to hear it. Thanks.


It becomes a bit more practical when you realize that you don't have to plug and unplug eSATA cables or power cables. In fact, eSATA connectors are not built for multiple plug cycles the way firewire and USB are, and will likely wear out with regular usage.

Here's the scenario I use: If I am on the x drive and want to move to the internal, I do a reboot from the menu followed immediately by simply turning off the power switch on the front of the x drive. On boot, the only drive that is then seen and mounted is the internal. If I want to move back to the x drive, I turn the power back on on the x drive, wait 15-20 seconds, and reboot from the menu. Now, on boot, the DVR defaults to the x drive. No cables are harmed or fiddled with in the process.

It's a 6 minute wait, and you're back in business. The caveats? It's a good idea to check your TDL before you move, as they are maintained separately on the drives themselves, as are the priority lists and other GUI parameters. Also, on moving to a different drive there will at first be as little as 3 hours of guide info, and it takes a while for upcoming days to repopulate.

To me the most impractical aspect is that you lose the ability to see the NPL from the unmounted drive, as seeing your recordings managed in a NPL is probably the best feature of a DVR other than trick play and the ability to record, itself. Our hope is that DTV finds a way to import this information so that you can at least see a record of what is on the unmounted drive.


----------



## shibby191

stevel said:


> Not quite all HD is MPEG4. I could not find evidence that HBOE-HD (501) is MPEG4. I'm sure it will be in time.


All the MPEG2 HD channels have duplicates now in MPEG4 as of end of July. :up:


----------



## TyroneShoes

shibby191 said:


> I only meant that on DirecTV the MPEG4 HD channels are much better quality then the MPEG2 HD channels because they compressed the heck out of the MPEG2 because of lack of bandwidth (HD Lite). No such problem exists for MPEG4. Thus while technically MPEG4 and MPEG2 can be no different in quality, it is on DirecTV simply because of compression.


 That assumes that compression parameters have changed, which is not the case. The report is that while MPEG-4 is "30% more efficient" than MPEG-2 as configured by DTV (meaning that you can compress 30% more for a similar level of quality), that they are also doing just that, and using 30% fewer bits to transmit it than MPEG-2, all of which would imply that both the compression level is equivalent and that the added artifacts from post-compression are equivalent, regarding how that might affect PQ.

There IS a potential difference in _resolution _for some channels, however (although resolution is not a compression parameter). DTV used to provide certain 1080i channels in a reduced horizontal resolution which they so far have not done with any MPEG-4 channels. Some folks understandably regard resolution as an aspect of quality, but technically speaking, from an engineering standpoint it is something quite different.


----------



## TyroneShoes

stevel said:


> Not quite all HD is MPEG4. I could not find evidence that HBOE-HD (501) is MPEG4. I'm sure it will be in time.


It might depend on which "504" you are looking at (due to duplication of numbers) and which box you are receiving it on. There are a couple easy ways to spot MPEG-4. First, and quite obviously, if you are viewing it on a HR10, sadly it can't be MPEG-4 (if only!).

On the HR2x, either play a recording or select a channel and pause it for a few seconds, then go to FFWDx1 mode. If it is smooth (30 fps) it is MPEG-2. If it is choppy (about 4 fps), it is MPEG-4.


----------



## stevel

shibby191 said:


> All the MPEG2 HD channels have duplicates now in MPEG4 as of end of July. :up:


I thought that was the case, but when I looked at the lyngsat chart, I could not find a parallel entry for HBOE-HD. The chart may be wrong.

Edit: I found another source indicating that 70 was MPEG2 and 501 was MPEG4.


----------



## shibby191

stevel said:


> I thought that was the case, but when I looked at the lyngsat chart, I could not find a parallel entry for HBOE-HD. The chart may be wrong.
> 
> Edit: I found another source indicating that 70 was MPEG2 and 501 was MPEG4.


Unfortunately Lingsat has never been accurate for the DirecTV channels on the 99 and 103 sats (all MPEG4).


----------



## stevel

The chart I saw did not show HBOE on 99/103 - it said 101 only.


----------



## Castaa

If I call D* directly, do they make offers with the new HR22 box? (I'm upgrading after 4 years of using my HR10-250)


----------



## Anubys

Castaa said:


> If I call D* directly, do they make offers with the new HR22 box? (I'm upgrading after 4 years of using my HR10-250)


usually, they have no control over what the installer will have on his truck...at this point in time, most of the installers have the HR21s (hardly ever have the HR20s)...I would assume that it will take some time before the HR22s are regularly available...


----------



## Castaa

Anubys said:


> usually, they have no control over what the installer will have on his truck...at this point in time, most of the installers have the HR21s (hardly ever have the HR20s)...I would assume that it will take some time before the HR22s are regularly available...


Got it. Thanks for the reply. :up:

So maybe I should just buy a box from Best Buy or Costco if I want a HR22?


----------



## Anubys

Castaa said:


> Got it. Thanks for the reply. :up:
> 
> So maybe I should just buy a box from Best Buy or Costco if I want a HR22?


not a good deal if you can get the box for free from DirecTV...if you get an HR21, you can still spend $100 and add an external drive and you would get the same thing for less money...

Costco has a 1 TB enclosure for less than $200...


----------



## sloan

Castaa said:


> If I call D* directly, do they make offers with the new HR22 box? (I'm upgrading after 4 years of using my HR10-250)


I got a directv email...asking about OTA. Basically they told me they couldn't guarantee anything, but I would get OTA somehow.

I don't know if "somehow" means I have to pay for the OTA add-on box for an HR21 or not. I have an HR20 right now.

............

Here are the directv conversations: (in the correct order):

Customer (ME) - 08/29/2008 10:49 AM 
Account Number: XXXXXXX

Hi.
I currently have 3 HR10-250's on my account.
I received an email about free upgrades.

Question1: Will you upgrade all 3 HR10-250's for free?

Question2: I have and use OTA recording. There are channels available in my area via OTA that directv does not carry.
What model will I get to be able to keep my OTA ability?

Question3: Since you are forcing me out of my HR10-250's (which originally cost over $1000 by the way), do the upgrades come withOUT a contract extension (usually 2 years)?

I look forward to upgrading, however, I need solid facts and answers to ALL THREE questions please.

Not having OTA is NOT an option. I will leave directv before giving that up.

...........

Thank you.

Dear Mr. ME,

Thanks for writing. Receivers and dish will be swapped at $0 regardless of number of receivers. You are eligible for a no cost upgrade of your MPEG-2 HD receiver to an MPEG-4 HD receiver (installation charges may apply). With an MPEG-4 HD receiver and HD Access you'll be able to see our expanded lineup of HD programming. _No programming commitment extension is required for this._ To take advantage of this special offer, please call us at 1-800-531-5000.

DIRECTV does not offer a choice of make, model or features with equipment orders (we ship from stock on hand in each region to keep the cost to our customers to a minimum). As such, I won't be able to verify which HD DVR models you will be getting upon activation. However, you'll still be able to get your OTA channel recording capabilities.

Thanks again for writing.

Sincerely,

Paulo
DIRECTV Customer Service


----------



## Castaa

Anubys said:


> not a good deal if you can get the box for free from DirecTV...if you get an HR21, you can still spend $100 and add an external drive and you would get the same thing for less money...
> 
> Costco has a 1 TB enclosure for less than $200...


Ah cool. Again thanks for the info.


----------



## Anubys

sloan said:


> However, you'll still be able to get your OTA channel recording capabilities.
> 
> Thanks again for writing.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Paulo
> DIRECTV Customer Service


please note that they consider the fact that they send the OTA channels via SAT to be "OTA channel recording capabilities"...I made SURE they wrote on my file that I am to get OTA tuners for free...

this was the only way I was able to get the AM21 for free when they sent me HR21s...otherwise, they wanted to charge me $50 per AM21 since I was already "getting the OTA channels"...

be very specific with them..."I will receive an HR20 or an HR21 + AM21 for free"...


----------



## sloan

Anubys said:


> please note that they consider the fact that they
> 
> be very specific with them..."I will receive an HR20 or an HR21 + AM21 for free"...


I agree. The language they use is very ambigious.

And trying to explain what a secondary channel is to most CSR's is wasted effort. 
"I know I get 50.1 thru directv. However, 50.2 is a totally different channel. It shows old shows (RTN) that don't come on 50.1". 
"But we send your HD locals thru the satellite" 
::::::sigh:::::::::::::

..........


----------



## Castaa

Is it the best technique to tell the first D* customer service person that you want to cancel your service so that one gets transfered to customer retention because that department will give you the best and final offer to stay with D*?


----------



## Jebberwocky!

Castaa said:


> Is it the best technique to tell the first D* customer service person that you want to cancel your service so that one gets transfered to customer retention because that department will give you the best and final offer to stay with D*?


that's my theory  just say cancel at the automated response and then confirm it and you'll go right to retention.


----------



## Castaa

I talked with a D* Customer Retention person just now. He offered Free Installation, a Free "leased" MPEG4 DVR box and $10 off for a year. With 2-year commitment.

I told him I'd think about it. I really don't care about OTA tuner since I get horrible HD reception here locally.


What more should I be going for in terms of striking a reasonably good deal for myself?


----------



## memnoch

To me that sounds pretty good, but I think they'd also give you 3 free months of either Showtime or HBO. Are you a Dexter fan?


----------



## memnoch

Castaa said:


> Is it the best technique to tell the first D* customer service person that you want to cancel your service so that one gets transfered to customer retention because that department will give you the best and final offer to stay with D*?


I said that and meant it, but she didn't even put me through to retention. Instead asking why I wanted to leave, then she made me a great offer I couldn't refuse. This Saturday is my new install. The question now though is will I even be able to see the sats. May all be for nothing.


----------



## Citivas

Castaa said:


> I talked with a D* Customer Retention person just now. He offered Free Installation, a Free "leased" MPEG4 DVR box and $10 off for a year. With 2-year commitment.
> 
> I told him I'd think about it. I really don't care about OTA tuner since I get horrible HD reception here locally.
> 
> What more should I be going for in terms of striking a reasonably good deal for myself?


Tell them you don't want the two year commitment. They have been doing deals with no commitment lately. I got one and many others have posted the same.


----------



## memnoch

I thought the no commitment deal was only from people upgrading their HR10s. Am I wrong?


----------



## Citivas

memnoch said:


> I thought the no commitment deal was only from people upgrading their HR10s. Am I wrong?


I don't know. Possibly. But the topic of this whole post is about (or was supposed to be about) people upgrading from the HR10-250's so I thought that was implied and the person who's deal you responded to said they were upgrading from a 10-250.

BTW, I only ever had one 10-250, but I got an upgrade and install (with a 2 year commitment at the time) to an HR20 two years ago and got to keep the box which I I kept in service, then got the service credits (after I declined a second free HR2X so I could buy the HR22 myself) this time, with no commitment, and still got to keep the 10-250 which I own.


----------



## bigpuma

memnoch said:


> I thought the no commitment deal was only from people upgrading their HR10s. Am I wrong?


I believe you are correct, but depending on the CSR you might get lucky without one.


----------



## BamaDave

Well after many hours of discussion with the folks about my situation with the HR10-250s they have agreed to provide me with HR-22s as replacements. That is only based on generating a request for the installer written on the service order to only provide 22s or the customer wont take delivery. I could not get them to throw in any AM21s so I guess Ill have to purchase them on my own. They justified it by saying that the locals are already provided, but Im sure some will be missed. I will say Im completely dissatisfied with the customer service performance and it seams like they dont care that we spent a ton of $$$ for the 10-250 units and its like, like it or lump it. I about at the point of generating a letter and sending it to the corporate chairmen but Im sure it wont really do anything better than I already have.


----------



## Citivas

BamaDave said:


> Well after many hours of discussion with the folks about my situation with the HR10-250s they have agreed to provide me with HR-22s as replacements. That is only based on generating a request for the installer written on the service order to only provide 22s or the customer wont take delivery. I could not get them to throw in any AM21s so I guess Ill have to purchase them on my own. They justified it by saying that the locals are already provided, but Im sure some will be missed. I will say Im completely dissatisfied with the customer service performance and it seams like they dont care that we spent a ton of $$$ for the 10-250 units and its like, like it or lump it. I about at the point of generating a letter and sending it to the corporate chairmen but Im sure it wont really do anything better than I already have.


By warned, this doesn't do any good unless you just randomly luck into the installers bringing the HR22 anyway. I had the exact same situation -- I had the HR22 specified in the work order and I had it specified that "customer will refuse delivery if it is not an HR22." The installers ignore all that and DirecTV, when you get other supervisors, will tell you that their own people aren't supposed to do that and the installers don't have to honor those notes.

In my case I just converted that promise into a credit to cover the cost of my going to Best Buy and purchasing one myself. Now I was doing it about 2 weeks too early for the HR22's to be widely distributed in the installer base so you have a better chance of being lucky but I thought you should be fair warned to set your expectation.


----------



## jnelaine

Well I finally called to order my "upgrade" to the HR2x units. I tried my best, but as expected, they couldn't guarantee me HR22 units or a SWM. They said they'd put those requests on the installation notes, but I doubt anyone reads those. I also tried to see if they would throw in a few AM21s for free, but the best I could get was 6 free months of HD. I also asked if I could upgrade my old Series 1 GXCEBOTD to an HR2x but the best they would offer me is to upgrade that unit for $99 (plus shipping and a new 2 year commitment), so I bagged that idea.

So, here's what I got
- Replacing my two HR10-250s with HR2x units (I requested HR22s)
- Free install
- No new commitment
- I will get 6 months of free HD to offset the cost of an AM21
- SWM is requested in installation notes


----------



## memnoch

For what its worth, I had a failed install 3 weeks ago and would have got HR21s. They came back this past weekend, install worked and I got two HR22s. But they told me that they don't have SWMs yet but should in the next few weeks. These are 5LNB though, they still know nothing about the SL3.


----------



## jnelaine

Yea, I'm debating about whether I should buy a SWM on my own just in case they don't show up with one. If they bring one, I can return the one that I purchased and I guess I'd only be out the shipping and re-stocking fee.


----------



## Wild Wild West

Just curious, no new posts since October. I have a HR10-250 and haven't upgraded yet. What model DVRs are folks getting installed lately, HR 22s or what? If I want to keep my 250 for HD OTA I must keep paying the $6.00 per month fee. When you add a new DVR and keep using the 250 do they charge you $6.00 X 2? What kind of deals are you guys getting now?
Thanks for the info


----------



## lmk911

Wild Wild West said:


> Just curious, no new posts since October. I have a HR10-250 and haven't upgraded yet. What model DVRs are folks getting installed lately, HR 22s or what? If I want to keep my 250 for HD OTA I must keep paying the $6.00 per month fee. When you add a new DVR and keep using the 250 do they charge you $6.00 X 2? What kind of deals are you guys getting now?
> Thanks for the info


I upgraded my HR10-250 earlier this week and received the HR20-700. I wanted the HR22 or HR23 for the additional hard drive space since I cannot utilize the OTA capabilities because of my location. The upgrade is free. Your commitment is extended for two years and there is an additional $4.99 DVR fee if you choose to keep your HR10-250.

NOTE: Be sure to request they include the B-converters with your receiver. It appears their system thinks it is a replacement unit and ships without them requiring you to make a second phone call for the two converters.


----------



## sloan

Wild Wild West said:


> Just curious, no new posts since October. I have a HR10-250 and haven't upgraded yet. What model DVRs are folks getting installed lately, HR 22s or what? If I want to keep my 250 for HD OTA I must keep paying the $6.00 per month fee. When you add a new DVR and keep using the 250 do they charge you $6.00 X 2? What kind of deals are you guys getting now?
> Thanks for the info


The $6 DVR fee covers any and all DVR's on your account.

You have to pay the $5 ($4.99 actually) "mirror" fee for the additional receiver.

HR22 is what they showed up with last time. He had a single HR21. He said he hadn't seen a HR20 in a long time. He being the install guy.

When you call, ask for a SWAP, and not an UPGRADE. This syntax-sugar may be the difference between a big $$$ or small $$$ amount.

Your HR10-250 will still be able to record StandardDef directv stations.
And you'll get your OTA stations.
You just won't get directv hi-def stations on it.

So an HR10-250 is not "useless", especially as a backup receiver.


----------



## lmk911

sloan said:


> HR22 is what they showed up with last time. He had a single HR21. He said he hadn't seen a HR20 in a long time. He being the install guy.
> 
> When you call, ask for a SWAP, and not an UPGRADE. This syntax-sugar may be the difference between a big $$$ or small $$$ amount.


My HR20-700 was shipped from DirecTV since I did not require an installer. Will you require an installer? I was almost charged $$ because they thought I was doing a swap/replacement.


----------



## BigBearf

I held out until about 3 months ago and actually got 6 HR22s for my HR10s. They were free but installation was required. I specified HR22s or I would not accept them and it was noted on the installation ticket. 

The installer was relieved because I have a complicated setup. All he had to do was take the HR22s out of the boxes and cut 6 three foot cables and we were done in about an hour. He did have to pull the BNC adapters off of his truck but he was grateful that I had prepared everything beforehand.

I kept the HR10s for OTA and SD recordings and pulled my SD DVRs from service. I plan to replace the 8 HR10s I have with at least 4 new D* TivoHD DVRs when available.

Hope this helps.
BigBearf


----------



## bodosom

lmk911 said:


> Your commitment is extended for two years


Not if you're upgrading from an HR10. I did my three in December. The order was written up by Halsted (the installation company) as a "swap" but the installer called the dispatcher and got it sorted out. Note that this was a Halsted issue not a DTV issue. The DTV CSR said that if I owned the HR10s they were mine to keep.

I got two HR21-700s and an HR22-100. The guy just gave me what was closest in the van -- I didn't express a preference since he didn't have any HR20s.


----------



## Wild Wild West

I haven't upgraded or swapped my HR10 yet, what kind of deals are you guys getting lately?
Also other than the larger capacity of the HR 22 what are the main differences between the 20, 21, and the 22?
Thanks for the update


----------



## Wild Wild West

I know I want to keep mu owned HR10 for OTA HD and other programing. What if I want to keep it for additional Direct non HD programing? Do I have to keep the old dish or can the 10 and the 20 something both be on the same new dish with some kind of multi-switch or something. What are the 20s costing you or are you getting some credits towards programing now? And how does switching now impact what getting the new TiVo should it come out in a year or so?

Lots of questions but I know you guys and gals can help me.
Thanks in advance.
Bob


----------



## Budget_HT

Once a month I receive an email that includes the following:

There is an important change to your HD service we want to inform you about. 

Because we recently changed the manner in which we broadcast HD channels, on February 25 several HD channels will no longer be compatible with your current HD equipment. In the coming months, additional HD channels (ESPN, ESPN2, HBO, TNT) will also require the new HD-compatible equipment. For more information please tune to Channel 77.

Please call 1-888-763-7772 today, and DIRECTV will replace your incompatible HD equipment FREE OF CHARGE, with no service agreement required. Mention the &#8220;FREE HD SWAP&#8221; and we'll get your replacement equipment set up as soon as possible.


----------



## lmk911

Budget_HT said:


> Once a month I receive an email that includes the following:
> 
> There is an important change to your HD service we want to inform you about.
> 
> Because we recently changed the manner in which we broadcast HD channels, on February 25 several HD channels will no longer be compatible with your current HD equipment. In the coming months, additional HD channels (ESPN, ESPN2, HBO, TNT) will also require the new HD-compatible equipment. For more information please tune to Channel 77.
> 
> Please call 1-888-763-7772 today, and DIRECTV will replace your incompatible HD equipment FREE OF CHARGE, with no service agreement required. Mention the FREE HD SWAP and we'll get your replacement equipment set up as soon as possible.


Thanks Dave for the information.


----------



## joed32

Wild Wild West said:


> I know I want to keep mu owned HR10 for OTA HD and other programing. What if I want to keep it for additional Direct non HD programing? Do I have to keep the old dish or can the 10 and the 20 something both be on the same new dish with some kind of multi-switch or something. What are the 20s costing you or are you getting some credits towards programing now? And how does switching now impact what getting the new TiVo should it come out in a year or so?
> 
> Lots of questions but I know you guys and gals can help me.
> Thanks in advance.
> Bob


Your HR10 will work, just keep it activated.


----------



## wayeasy

I had HD service with a HR-20 for over a year with the new dish on the roof. I was at goodwill thrift store about a month ago (Jan 09), there was an HR10-250 there for $8. I bought it took it home and had it activated with Direct. I got the 70's channels in HD, and locals OTA in HD. I called up direct on Feb 17th 09, and requested a swap because of the feb 25th cut off of showtime HD on ch71. The sent me a HR20-700 for free. I got it fedex in two days. They didn't send me the filters so I had to make a phone call and those are on there way. I didn't complain about the HR20 cuz basically I made out by getting something for nothing.


----------



## ANZAC_1915

I just finally got my 3LNB dish installed (was sitting in the garage for a year), and have two HR10-250s (and a Sony T60, I'm old school).

I was hoping to see some MPEG2 HD programming for a while, I am going to hold out for the MPEG4 HD Tivo, so not interested in a HR2x.

Anyway, I'd heard the HD DNS east coast feeds (80,82,86,88) would be phased out on Feb 14, but I can still see them and their programming on the guide but get a "x721 to order" message.

Is anyone else still able to see them, or did they move to MPEG4 on Feb 14?


----------



## sjberra

ANZAC_1915 said:


> I just finally got my 3LNB dish installed (was sitting in the garage for a year), and have two HR10-250s (and a Sony T60, I'm old school).
> 
> I was hoping to see some MPEG2 HD programming for a while, I am going to hold out for the MPEG4 HD Tivo, so not interested in a HR2x.
> 
> Anyway, I'd heard the HD DNS east coast feeds (80,82,86,88) would be phased out on Feb 14, but I can still see them and their programming on the guide but get a "x721 to order" message.
> 
> Is anyone else still able to see them, or did they move to MPEG4 on Feb 14?


from DBSTalk

On Wednesday February 25th at 6 a.m. ET, the MPEG2 versions of Showtime, Universal HD and HDNet Movies [Viewer Channels 71, 74 and 78 respectively] will be removed from broadcast.

that leasv you

72-ESPN
73-ESPN2
75-TNT
76-HD Theater
79-HD Net

for awhile longer then you will have

OTA


----------



## WaldorfSalad

sjberra said:


> from DBSTalk
> 
> On Wednesday February 25th at 6 a.m. ET, the MPEG2 versions of Showtime, Universal HD and HDNet Movies [Viewer Channels 71, 74 and 78 respectively] will be removed from broadcast.
> 
> that leasv you
> 
> 72-ESPN
> 73-ESPN2
> 75-TNT
> 76-HD Theater
> 79-HD Net
> 
> for awhile longer then you will have
> 
> OTA


Did anyone check yet if Showtime, Universal HD and HDNet Movies went away this morning. I noticed in the guide last night that there was no programming shown from now on.

Does anyone know if you cancel DirecTV's HD add-on service (~ $10/month) can you still Tivo your local HD channels that are received via OTA?


----------



## sjberra

WaldorfSalad said:


> Did anyone check yet if Showtime, Universal HD and HDNet Movies went away this morning. I noticed in the guide last night that there was no programming shown from now on.
> 
> Does anyone know if you cancel DirecTV's HD add-on service (~ $10/month) can you still Tivo your local HD channels that are received via OTA?


No answer for you on that, I am not at home to check.

Curious thought - with the transition from analog to digital, even on a OTA tuner on a Directivo and a HR20 - does it need a analog to digital convertor box? No idea, I don;t have either my HDTivo or my HR20 attached to OTA and no cables to test it with


----------



## hefe

sjberra said:


> from DBSTalk
> 
> On Wednesday February 25th at 6 a.m. ET, the MPEG2 versions of Showtime, Universal HD and HDNet Movies [Viewer Channels 71, 74 and 78 respectively] will be removed from broadcast.
> 
> that leasv you
> 
> 72-ESPN
> 73-ESPN2
> 75-TNT
> 76-HD Theater
> 79-HD Net
> 
> for awhile longer then you will have
> 
> OTA


Well, I guess that will just save me a few bucks. I'll cancel my HD package which I hardly watch anyway. Virtually all my HD watching is OTA.


----------



## whitepelican

sjberra said:


> Curious thought - with the transition from analog to digital, even on a OTA tuner on a Directivo and a HR20 - does it need a analog to digital convertor box? No idea, I don;t have either my HDTivo or my HR20 attached to OTA and no cables to test it with


No, the HR10-250, and the HR2x series have always only been able to tune digital ATSC stations anyway. None of them can tune analog stations. The digital transition only effects these units to the extent that some stations are changing frequencies and causing the guide data to be screwed up a bit because of it.


----------



## whitepelican

WaldorfSalad said:


> Did anyone check yet if Showtime, Universal HD and HDNet Movies went away this morning. I noticed in the guide last night that there was no programming shown from now on.


Those stations are gone. They've automatically been removed from the channels I receive on my HR10-250s, and if you tune to the stations manually they are only showing the same slide that has been showing on channel 77 for awhile now.



WaldorfSalad said:


> Does anyone know if you cancel DirecTV's HD add-on service (~ $10/month) can you still Tivo your local HD channels that are received via OTA?


Yes, works fine. You might have to try a few different CSRs before one will let you cancel the HD package, though.


----------



## WaldorfSalad

Just cancelled Showtime as I'm not interested in the non-HD channels. Keeping HBO-HD for now.

Anyone know when DirecTV are going to nix the remaining HD channels?


----------



## fredflint

I'm still getting a signal on 88.


----------



## ANZAC_1915

fredflint said:


> I'm still getting a signal on 88.


Great - any advice on who to ask for at D*? The tech people stick to the scripts, and then claim I should be able to see it, then they said the east coast feeds moved to MPEG4.

Just to be really clear, you are able to see the east coast HD programming on 88, right?

(obviously I am both waivered and grandfathered on DNS, had them in SD for years).


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## Budget_HT

whitepelican said:


> Those stations are gone. They've automatically been removed from the channels I receive on my HR10-250s, and if you tune to the stations manually they are only showing the same slide that has been showing on channel 77 for awhile now.
> 
> Yes, works fine. You might have to try a few different CSRs before one will let you cancel the HD package, though.


I have 2 HR10-250's. To drop the HD satellite channel package from DirecTV, I had to talk to 2 CSRs, finally demand a supervisor, then educate the supervisor wrt OTA HD vs. satellite HD, then finally I asked if I could drop the sat HD and not affect the OTA HD. She left for about 10 minutes, came back and said yes, and we did just that.

So now we have HD DirecTiVo access to all OTA HD channels and the SD satellite channels that we subscribe to.

Now we are waiting to see if there will really be an MPEG-4-capable HD DirecTiVo in our future. If not, I will likely begin a migration to cable and HD TiVo units.


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## shibby191

ANZAC_1915 said:


> Great - any advice on who to ask for at D*? The tech people stick to the scripts, and then claim I should be able to see it, then they said the east coast feeds moved to MPEG4.
> 
> Just to be really clear, you are able to see the east coast HD programming on 88, right?
> 
> (obviously I am both waivered and grandfathered on DNS, had them in SD for years).


Do you have HD locals available in your area? If so then they may have audited your account and removed the HD DNS stations. Granfathered status no longer exists as the networks insist that if you have HD locals then you no longer qualify for HD DNS (note this is different then SD DNS rules). DirecTV has been auditing accounts for over a year and have gotten more aggressive in this so they don't get sued like Dish has several times.

Just saying it might be nothing to do with any MPEG4 conversion and simply that they took it away if you no longer qualify.


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## fredflint

I get the east coast (NY) feed for Fox and also get the local version. Since both affiliates are owned by the same company (or so I am told), I was able to get it when I requested waivers over 6 years ago. Fox was the only waiver they granted me.


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## ANZAC_1915

shibby191 said:


> Do you have HD locals available in your area?


OTA or on D*?

In any event, if that was the issue, you would think they'd be able to tell me that, instead of telling me I need two new HD receivers because they are faulty, or that the channels no longer exist.


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## shibby191

ANZAC_1915 said:


> OTA or on D*?


Doesn't matter OTA or D* actually, it's just can you get them at all per the law. If you can get HD locals via D* then you are a prime suspect to get audited.



> In any event, if that was the issue, you would think they'd be able to tell me that, instead of telling me I need two new HD receivers because they are faulty, or that the channels no longer exist.


Yea, well, you're asking a bit much from customer support. 

Seriously though, if you lost the HD DNS stations and especially if you have HD locals available on D* in your market then you can pretty much guarantee your account was audited and the DNS stations removed.


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## ANZAC_1915

shibby191 said:


> Seriously though, if you lost the HD DNS stations and especially if you have HD locals available on D* in your market then you can pretty much guarantee your account was audited and the DNS stations removed.


(how would I know?) Are the HD locals MPEG2 or MPEG4, and are they the mapped stations or in another channel range?


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## stevel

What shibby means is that if DirecTV offers HD locals over the satellite in your market, they'll take HD DNS away.


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## ANZAC_1915

stevel said:


> What shibby means is that if DirecTV offers HD locals over the satellite in your market, they'll take HD DNS away.


I cannot see any HD locals. If I could, I wouldn't be griping about the DNS HD versions.

Now, I might be able to see HD locals if I upgraded to a MPEG4 DVR, which I don't want to do until there is a HD Tivo version.
I don't think I should lose access to content when it is still being broadcast in a way I can access with my current equipmemt.

If this is really different than the SD laws, that is pretty wonky.

They did admit that I do have eligibility to watch the West Coast MPEG2 HD DNS channels (81,83, etc), but unfortunately they already migrated to MPEG4...

Looks like OTA is the next step, we live a long way from the stations so not sure how well it will work.


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## TyroneShoes

ANZAC_1915 said:


> I cannot see any HD locals. If I could, I wouldn't be griping about the DNS HD versions.
> 
> Now, I might be able to see HD locals if I upgraded to a MPEG4 DVR, which I don't want to do until there is a HD Tivo version.
> I don't think I should lose access to content when it is still being broadcast in a way I can access with my current equipmemt.
> 
> If this is really different than the SD laws, that is pretty wonky...


Actually, the SD rules and the HD rules, while very different, are both pretty wonky. The fact that they are very different is living proof that the rules were fashioned arbitrarily. The bottom line is that they were each written with the wishes of the networks and stations in mind, and not the wishes of the viewers or vendors, so that explains both why customers view them negatively and why vendors view them non-partisanly.

I get your argument, but I see it as weak. DTV is willing to provide you with suitable equipment to get HD locals, yet you are refusing. Getting folks to convert takes a lot of the carrot and just a little bit of the stick, and IMHO DTV has struck a fair balance in that. If you won't take the carrot, then you should probably brace yourself for the stick.

That DTV may enforce the DNS rules as one method of urging you to convert seems like a reasonable business approach, seeing as how you should be just as required to observe DNS rules as anyone else. But if you examine the situation, DNS rules and whether you could be provided with capability to receive locals are really two very separate matters. It is just somewhat a convenient yet unrelated coincidence for DTV that it may help persuade you to convert should you lose DNS


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## ANZAC_1915

TyroneShoes said:


> That DTV may enforce the DNS rules as one method of urging you to convert seems like a reasonable business approach, seeing as how you should be just as required to observe DNS rules as anyone else.


I do agree with you, I just think they should be honest that is their goal (getting me to convert) rather than just saying I'm not eligible and this is all the FCC's doing. I did find some other info that unless my original local station waivers (which I procured myself and provided to DTV in 1999) specify the waiver is for analog signals only, I should be allowed to received DTVs digital version of the east coast feeds.

And there is the irony, that now the locals have ceased analog broadcasts, I am effectively receiving the DNS version of those same east coast digital network broadcasts (SD channels 380, 382 etc). It may be that I shouldn't receive them, but the DTV guy said I was eligible for them - the FCC rules are about analog and digital, not SD and HD. So either I'm eligible for DNS feeds in leiu of a digital signal, or I'm not. (they can't say it is ok for digital SD but not digital HD)

I guess I wasn't paying attention when this happened a year or two ago, because they effectively screwed west coast HD DNS subscribers with HR10's by choosing to migrate those channels to MPEG4 ahead of the east coast, hence the free upgrade offer I guess.

And hey, this is the Tivo forum, where is the HR10 love? 

PS Fredflint - what state are you in? DTV claimed they'd let me watch 80,82,86,88 if I lived on the "east side of the country".

PPS DTV droid claimed MPEG4 HD DirecTivo would be out in Q4 2009.


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## TyroneShoes

ANZAC_1915 said:


> I do agree with you, I just think they should be honest that is their goal (getting me to convert) rather than just saying I'm not eligible and this is all the FCC's doing. I did find some other info that unless my original local station waivers (which I procured myself and provided to DTV in 1999) specify the waiver is for analog signals only, I should be allowed to received DTVs digital version of the east coast feeds.
> 
> ...the DTV guy said I was eligible for them - the FCC rules are about analog and digital, not SD and HD. So either I'm eligible for DNS feeds in leiu of a digital signal, or I'm not. (they can't say it is ok for digital SD but not digital HD)...


I am not sure what the rules are, but basically, for analog, if you are in a zipcode flagged as "white", you are eligible, and if in a "red" zip, you aren't.

But digital is apparently very different. At one point you could get the distant HD signal if you were an HD sub and lived in a city that had a network O&O station for that network. At one point you could even get both east and west (I missed that boat). And at some later point they disenfranchised you even if you met those requirements.

If I am DTV and I want to fight whether you get DNS or not, I hire a good lawyer who will say "Sorry, your waver was for Kxxx-TV (the analog signal) and Kxxx-DT (the new digital version) is a different signal, different name, even if from the same affiliate, and therefore "different" enough that your waiver doesn't apply. As a matter of fact I think there are no waivers in the digital world of DNS.

But the point might be that DTV doesn't really want to fight. They want your business, and they will sell you anything you will pay for unless the NAB or the local station holds their feet to the fire, which is rare, because TV stations have plenty to worry about other than that. The dough they can generate and retention benefits of selling you something you are officially not supposed to have yet really would like to have can greatly outweigh the chance of a slap on the wrist from the FCC. They normally misinterpret the rules in their and your favor whenever they think they can get away with it.


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## newsposter

why would a tv station care if my tivo records from their station or someone else's? I'm not gonna watch commercials no matter what


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## TyroneShoes

newsposter said:


> why would a tv station care if my tivo records from their station or someone else's? I'm not gonna watch commercials no matter what


In the archaic world of broadcasting, what they want is ratings. If you watch CBS from NYC, your local station doesn't get your eyeballs counted. That is why it made absolutely no sense that you could get a HD DNS station if you had an O&O in your market.

Ironically, what broadcasters sell is airtime in little 30-second slices, yet they base their claim to how many folks will see a particular commercial on something completely different--the number of folks who claim they were watching something else, the program surrounding those commercials, also based on a very small sample of those folks. Pretty thin, eh?

The entire "captive audience" business model of broadcasters is a joke and a dinosaur, and will be a dim memory in another few years.


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## joed32

With no sponsorship wouldn't that mean no TV shows, or would they just discontinue OTA and raise the price that they charge to Cable and Satellite to pay for them.


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## newsposter

TyroneShoes said:


> In the archaic world of broadcasting, what they want is ratings. If you watch CBS from NYC, your local station doesn't get your eyeballs counted.


ok so my friend, a holdout from primestar days still paying for the distants, is being counted in 'those' markets but not our home market?

How do they account for people like her that may have distants but also may (she does not) watch OTA? I guess what i'm asking is how do OTA people get counted?

and is there any consideration given to overlap areas? If i cared to buy a rotor, i could easily get stations other than the philly market. Do they count me as watching them since i'm definitely 'able to' get them OTA but directv wont give me them?


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