# TiVo Spam



## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-12/tivo-spam-machine-revs-engines/


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

For the people that don't read the responses, Dave Zatz photoshopped the picture so that the "pop up" looks like an ad selling something to show the slippery slope Tivo is on.

The original image can be seen here
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-11/tivo-preps-series2-update/


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Yawn.


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## adamfb (Jan 22, 2007)

scandia101 said:


> For the people that don't read the responses, Dave Zatz photoshopped the picture so that the "pop up" looks like an ad selling something to show what the slippery slope Tivo is on could lead to.
> 
> The original image can be seen here
> http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-11/tivo-preps-series2-update/


Does no one else have this yet? I've had ads placed on my paused screen for 2 days now. Above (I believe) the swivel search banner is another identical one with the advertisement. Currently it's Horton hears a who. Same as the gold star ad on my S3.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I refuse to click through any message that has no explanation of what it is - especially when it's called TiVo Spam!!!


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> Dave Zatz photoshopped the picture so that the "pop up" looks like an ad selling something to show what the slippery slope Tivo is on could lead to.


irony - in a reply post I made on dave's web page on this - 3 rollover ads were interjected into my text.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

adamfb said:


> Does no one else have this yet? I've had ads placed on my paused screen for 2 days now. Above (I believe) the swivel search banner is another identical one with the advertisement. Currently it's Horton hears a who. Same as the gold star ad on my S3.


Got screen shots?


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

> Originally Posted by adamfb View Post
> Does no one else have this yet? I've had ads placed on my paused screen for 2 days now. Above (I believe) the swivel search banner is another identical one with the advertisement. Currently it's Horton hears a who. Same as the gold star ad on my S3.





scandia101 said:


> Got screen shots?


Last week I had the ad for "Horton Hears a Who" just below the paused swivel banner. This was on a S2 dual tuner. The ad's are real and can appear while pausing recorded shows.

I posted about in the Service Update thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=409783&highlight=horton&page=8

Message #235

I don't have a screen shot because I don't own a digital camera. But don't worry, I'm certain you will eventually see them with your own eyes on your Tivos.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

My question is how often do you pause? Also when you do it is probably to read/look at something (Chuck Lorre vanity cards for example) and when you do how often do you do the pause/clear combo without really thinking? I for one think if they do the Goldstar/Ads there that is crappy, but it won't bother me much as I won't see the ad long enough to care as I always clear out the pause bar anyway.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Einselen said:


> My question is how often do you pause? Also when you do it is probably to read/look at something (Chuck Lorre vanity cards for example) and when you do how often do you do the pause/clear combo without really thinking? I for one think if they do the Goldstar/Ads there that is crappy, but it won't bother me much as I won't see the ad long enough to care as I always clear out the pause bar anyway.


I pause quite often when I'm watching with other people. Usually to discuss watch going on in the show. Pause to allow people to use the bathroom. Answer the phone. If someone knocks on the door. In other words, life. I'm not say all this happens during every show watched but it does happen once in awhile.

We shouldn't compare viewing habits. Because it's going to be different for everyone. Just because YOU don't pause often while view recorded shows, doesn't mean others don't for various reasons.

Just ask anyone who has kids how often they pause shows.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> I pause quite often when I'm watching with other people. Usually to discuss watch going on in the show. Pause to allow people to use the bathroom. Answer the phone. If someone knocks on the door. In other words, life. I'm not say all this happens during every show watched but it does happen once in awhile.
> 
> We shouldn't compare viewing habits. Because it's going to be different for everyone. Just because YOU don't pause often while view recorded shows, doesn't mean others don't for various reasons.
> 
> Just ask anyone who has kids how often they pause shows.


But when you pause during "life" you don't care what is on the screen correct?


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Einselen said:


> But when you pause during "life" you don't care what is on the screen correct?


The other people in the room do. At least until I return from "life". And sometimes I'm one of those other people.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> The other people in the room do. At least until I return from "life". And sometimes I'm one of the other people.


Why do other people care what is on the screen? It is paused, not like they are still watching the show, they are just waiting. (Don't think I am ok with these ads, but personally I wonder how many Eyeballs this will get plus how many people will actually click through in the middle of a show)


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Einselen said:


> Why do other people care what is on the screen? It is paused, not like they are still watching the show, they are just waiting. (Don't think I am ok with these ads, but personally I wonder how many Eyeballs this will get plus how many people will actually click through in the middle of a show)


The impression I'm getting from you is that you have an issue with other Tivo owners complaining about this new feature/ads. You seem to have little to no issue with this new feature/ads. Well, that's great for you. Truly, not being sarcastic. But others do have an issue with it and are expressing their dislike here.

You made it clear as to what your opinion is about this new feature/ads. How about allowing others to do the same without nit picking their posts, comparing your tolerance for the new feature/ads to theirs. In other words, if it doesn't bother me, why does it bother you, way of thinking?

Again, we shouldn't be comparing viewing habits. Everyone is going to have different ways of watching shows.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> The impression I'm getting from you is that you have an issue with other Tivo owners complaining about this new feature/ads. You seem to have little to no issue with this new feature/ads. Well, that's great for you. Truly, not being sarcastic. But others do have an issue with it and are expressing their dislike here.
> 
> You made it clear as to what your opinion is about this new feature/ads. How about allowing others to do the same without nit picking their posts, comparing your tolerance for the new feature/ads to theirs. In other words, if it doesn't bother me, why does it bother you, way of thinking?
> 
> Again, we shouldn't be comparing viewing habits. Everyone is going to have different ways of watching shows.


This post did not answer my question. Why do people care what is on the screen when you pause? Not saying you shouldn't but wondering.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Einselen said:


> This post did not answer my question. Why do people care what is on the screen when you pause? Not saying you shouldn't but wondering.


Because it's annoying? Clutters the interface unnecessarily while adding little benefit? The swivel feature can already be accessed in another area of the Tivo GUI. Is that a good enough answer?

Why do people dislike ringing cell phones in movie theaters? Because it detracts from the entertainment experience?


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> Because it's annoying? *Clutters the interface unnecessarily while adding little benefit?* The swivel feature can already be accessed in another area of the Tivo GUI. Is that a good enough answer?
> 
> Why do people dislike cell phones in movie theaters? Because it detracts from the entertainment experience?


Emphasis added by me. That is a good point (in regards to ads).

Swivel feature elsewhere sure, but the convenience of it is great. Go to your NP list and select a show then show upcoming. You can also do this via Find Programs and type in the show but again convenience. Now swivel on pause screen is that a convenience? I think that is debatable


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Einselen said:


> Emphasis added by me. That is a good point (in regards to ads).
> 
> Swivel feature elsewhere sure, but the convenience of it is great.


Again, you and others may find it convenient but I and other do/may not. I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually used the swivel feature since it was first introduced. *It's just darn slow.* I can find what I'm looking for on the internet faster. This 'feature' should have an off switch inside the Tivo settings. This would allow a user such yourself to turn it on and for me and others to switch it off. But I don't see that happening.

Let's just agree to disagree.

I'm just waiting for the story of little Suzzy or Bobby watching their cartoons and an ad for the movie "Saw 7" pops up during a pause. Oh, the fun 

BTW, I was just being sarcastic. I'm sure the KidZone would prevent this. For those parents that actually use it.


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

Einselen said:


> My question is how often do you pause?


i pause a lot. a lot. the reasons are many and have to do with personal circumstances, including having to explain things to others (an elderly, hard-of-hearing and remembering parent.)

the interruptions in my household are many and i'd say the pause button wears out long before even the power or mute buttons!


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Malcontent said:


> Again, you and others may find it convenient but I and other do/may not. I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually used the swivel feature since it was first introduced. *It's just darn slow.* I can find what I'm looking for on the internet faster. This 'feature' should have an off switch inside the Tivo settings. This would allow a user such yourself to turn it on and for me and others to switch it off. But I don't see that happening.


Actually I find it convenient. If I use swivel search from the menus I have to slowly enter the name of the show. That is probably the part you hate, I know I find it tedious. But from the pause menu it drops you right on the search result for the show with no data entry. Suddenly swivel search has become useful for me. For people who wanted an IR keyboard to get through the data entry faster, this eliminates that need when what you want is information on the show you are watching.

Is it perfect, of course not, but I find it is better than it was before.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

CuriousMark said:


> Actually I find it convenient. If I use swivel search from the menus I have to slowly enter the name of the show. That is probably the part you hate, I know I find it tedious. But from the pause menu it drops you right on the search result for the show with no data entry. Suddenly swivel search has become useful for me. For people who wanted an IR keyboard to get through the data entry faster, this eliminates that need when what you want is information on the show you are watching.
> 
> Is it perfect, of course not, but I find it is better than it was before.


Doesn't using Swivel from the episode menu accomplish the same thing? Doesn't it take you directly to search results for that episode or movie, without entering the info manually? Making the Swivel pause feature redundant.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> Doesn't using Swivel from the episode menu accomplish the same thing? Doesn't it take you directly to search results for that episode or movie, without entering the info manually? Making the Swivel pause feature redundant.


What if (I know this is TiVo) it is live tv? Gasp! There is no episode menu for that one.


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## Malcontent (Sep 5, 2004)

Einselen said:


> What if (I know this is TiVo) it is live tv? Gasp! There is no episode menu for that one.


Who watches live Tv anymore?  Anyway, couldn't the swivel pause be limited to live tv? The swivel search on the episode menu would cover recorded shows. Best of both worlds.

Actually, if Tivo just added the Swivel pause feature to live Tv, that would have made more sense to me. Since having the Swivel pause for recorded shows is redundant. I can see that being useful. There have been times while watching live tv that I wanted to find out more info on actors or other shows they have been in, ect. But I watch so little live tv that I probably won't make much use of the live swivel pause. But I'm sure other will though.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Malcontent said:


> Who watches live Tv anymore?  Anyway, couldn't the swivel pause be limited to live tv? The swivel search on the episode menu would cover recorded shows. Best of both worlds.
> 
> Actually, if Tivo just added the Swivel pause feature to live Tv, that would have made more sense to me. Since having the Swivel pause for recorded shows is redundant. I can see that being useful. There have been times while watching live tv that I wanted to find out more info on actors or other shows they have been in, ect. But I watch so little live tv that I probably won't make much use of the live swivel pause. But I'm sure other will though.


After I mentioned it, the Live TV makes sense. Most times I hit the TiVo button before even turning on the TV (therefore not getting spoiled if recording, I know there is the light) but the Swivel via Live TV is a great feature, recorded TV not much as you back up one menu to the episode (unless you press play before getting to the episodic information) and can get it from there. Maybe better use would be if you hit the info button having the menu there, even with pre-recorded shows as info takes up half of the screen already.


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## DCIFRTHS (Jan 6, 2000)

ZeoTiVo said:


> irony - in a reply post I made on dave's web page on this - 3 rollover ads were interjected into my text.


How much does Dave charge for a subscription to his site?


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> Got screen shots?


Here's one - displayed over a children's program on public tv!










:down::down::down:


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

RoyK said:


> Here's one - displayed over a children's program on public tv!


At least it wasn't an ad for an adult movie. I wonder how much of the screen needs to be covered with ads before TiVo faithfuls will consider it being too much? And before you tell me that TiVo will never cover a whole screen with ads, remember it all started with yellow star ads years ago.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

samo said:


> At least it wasn't an ad for an adult movie.


 Horton sees a Ho 


> I wonder how much of the screen needs to be covered with ads before TiVo faithfuls will consider it being too much? And before you tell me that TiVo will never cover a whole screen with ads, remember it all started with yellow star ads years ago.


to me it could cover the whole screen on pause and be the same as the status bar all by itself. Something on the screen is something on the screen. If I was going to be upset it would have started with the status bar on pause which I never found useful and always cleared if I paused to see something.

the time the bar stays on the screen is not changed due to the ad.
The clear button works the same as before to take the overlay off the screen.

How much of the screen will have to be covered before those not liking the ads stop sending TiVo money?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

DCIFRTHS said:


> How much does Dave charge for a subscription to his site?


How much does it cost Dave to make each episode of his web site?

This is an important question as the DVR is making the 30 sec spots obsolete and the way to generate revenue from TV episodes will change. TiVo has discussed that as important to the future of DVRs since they rely on content and are useless without content. Ads pay for content.

On a small scale Dave's site is the same way - he has production costs to keep the site up and running. The rollover ads I find one of the more obtrusive forms of advertising as it ops up right on top of what I am actively reading if I am not careful with the mouse. That puts it a level beyond a graphic showing up when you hit pause. Dave is of course being smart for having ads on his website but somehow TiVo is being.....

So I take your point on ads along with a subscription fee but TiVo clearly marks its revenues from various sources, being a public company. Clearly a sub only business model does not work long term and clearly ad revenue is not yet sufficient to mark down the sub.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> How much does it cost Dave to make each episode of his web site?
> 
> This is an important question as the DVR is making the 30 sec spots obsolete and the way to generate revenue from TV episodes will change. TiVo has discussed that as important to the future of DVRs since they rely on content and are useless without content. Ads pay for content.
> 
> ...


How much revenue from these damned ads to you think TiVo is passing along to the content producers?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> How much revenue from these damned ads to you think TiVo is passing along to the content producers?


none *yet.* TiVo is *way* ahead of the curve in figuring out revenue generation in the age of DVRs and IPTV. I imagine the ROI for what Tivo is doing heavily leans on selling the technology to do interactive ads versus ad revenue directly.

As long as TiVo remains the best overall media server option out there (and Netflix shot it way up my list) and they continue their approach of incorporating ads around my viewing experience then I will keep using them.
I will also come here and debate the "all ads suck" perspective since having to pay large sums of money to watch an adless first run TV episode would suck even more.

Though my time on the forum may be cut back as I watch totally ad free and HD epsisodes of CSI and CSI:MIami on netflix streaming on my TiVo without paying the cable company one more dime.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

They could fill my pause screen up if they want to.....as long as they don't raise sub rates at the same time......


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## robaustin (Nov 14, 2004)

If one were a conspiracy theorist, one could postulate that the "more info" thing was added specifically so they could have that pop up functionality on the pause menu, enabling it first as a "nicety" and then selling ad space, with the intent being to sell ad space in the first place, but with the initial functionality as an excuse....

If one were a conspiracy theorist of course....

If they were making it a pure FUNCTION there would have been an option to turn the functionality on or off. Often I pause a show because I want to examine what's on screen. It's poor user interface design to interfere with the picture, and to add an extra button push to get rid of it. Tivo is known for GOOD interface design, so this smacks purely of a revenue generating function, NOT one anyone really wanted. How many people have actually GONE to the swivel search when paused? I'd bet on very, very few. I've wanted to turn the function off from the start, but since there's no option to do so, I'm stuck with it as default, and ergo - stuck with the ads as default.

We're on to you Tivo.....better watch it.....

--*Rob


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> none *yet.* TiVo is *way* ahead of the curve in figuring out revenue generation in the age of DVRs and IPTV. ...


Right. Tivo is way ahead at figuring out a way to mooch from content providers in order to try to line their own pockets while at the same time charging their paying customers for the privilege.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Here's one - displayed over a children's program on public tv!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This was not in the KidZone area of TiVo, though, correct? I no longer have a S2 hooked up, so I can't check for myself, but I sincerely hope that their KidZone area is being kept free of advertising.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

I do not use Kidzone so I can't speak to that. However I wonder......... hmmm..........
Anybody know how easy it would be to enable most of what an adult would want to watch in KidZone?


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## f0gax (Aug 8, 2002)

Everyone is different... but so far not one of these ads has bothered me or my family yet. And, as was mentioned above, so long as sub rates aren't raised I'm okay with the ads.

To be honest, the money to add all of the things other than base DVR functionality has to come from somewhere. I don't know that TiVo would still be attractive if the hardware as $299 and the monthly sub was $39.95 per box. So if some unobtrusive ads start paying for upgrades, not only do I not mind, but I'm all for it.

Also as stated above, to me as long as what I want to watch isn't obscured by an ad, it doesn't matter one lick to me. 

To each their own I guess. But I don't see why we go through this every time TiVo adds more ads.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

f0gax said:


> ...
> To each their own I guess. But I don't see why we go through this every time TiVo adds more ads.


Maybe because they keep adding more ads? And they keep getting ever more intrusive? Naah, there's no such thing as a slippery slope...


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

robaustin said:


> If one were a conspiracy theorist, one could postulate that the "more info" thing was added specifically so they could have that pop up functionality on the pause menu, enabling it first as a "nicety" and then selling ad space, with the intent being to sell ad space in the first place, but with the initial functionality as an excuse....


no conspiracy about it. This was an ad thing from the get-go. Any PR from TiVo about this is as part of their interactive ad strategy. The more about just puts something in place as I expect they will not have ads on 100%.
The more about is a "nice to have" as it jumps you to swivel search to setup recordings/downloads based on more criteria than you would have by hitting the guide button and is perhaps more intuitive to some than hitting guide button - but this is all about ads and TiVo has stated as much and was rather proud of themselves while stating it.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Maybe because they keep adding more ads? And they keep getting ever more intrusive? Naah, there's no such thing as a slippery slope...


The ads in folders in now showing added one more remote button press for some, including myself. The rest of the ad stuff has not changed how I use my DVR one ioata (since I have the enviable ability to ignore stuff on the screen)

I see this more as a sticky slope that TiVo is carefully traversing down so they do not trip and fall down that slope. Still, to each their own perspective. My perspective still has Tivo as the best option for me and thus rational reason for being in these threads.

If you see a slippery slope that is inevitable then I keep asking why do you not seek out an alternative and spend your time persuing that?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Malcontent said:


> Doesn't using Swivel from the episode menu accomplish the same thing? Doesn't it take you directly to search results for that episode or movie, without entering the info manually? Making the Swivel pause feature redundant.


Yes it does, I didn't mean to imply that the pause menu was the only way to do this. Strangely I never used the episode menu method to get there, but find I use the pause menu method a good bit more. Maybe the "in your face" aspect of it does that.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

RoyK said:


> Here's one - displayed over a children's program on public tv!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So it's just another item on a menu that leads to an ad. BFD.
I can ignore yellow star items just as easily there as I can when they are on the Tivo Central menu.

Those of you seeing this, does your Tivo have v9.3.2 or do you have the new v9.3.2*a* service update?

9.3.2 was the latest (fall 2008) software update
9.3.2a is a new service update


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> Those of you seeing this, does your Tivo have v9.3.2 or do you have the new v9.3.2*a* service update?


Yes


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> Yes


Yes, what?


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

RoyK said:


> Maybe because they keep adding more ads? And they keep getting ever more intrusive? Naah, there's no such thing as a slippery slope...


Yes it's absolutely a slippery slope (I get your sarcasm), and they will push as far as they could. Every company does. Google said "don't be evil", but 2001 was the last year Google didn't bend this rule themselves. We all know why Tivo did this, it's about selling ads, regardless of what spin people try to put on this. The only thing I think maybe worth discussing is "now what". Even that is mostly a personal choice thing, we each know what we pay and what we get. I've seen this kind of thread here for years, but honestly, does anyone here ever remember seeing anyone being convinced to change their mind after a "discussion thread" like this? It's what it is.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> Yes, what?


Yes Sir!


I have 1 of both versions and it has been on both. The ads show up by selective show. EG Norton shows up on PBS but not on Oprah.


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## kmill14 (Dec 11, 2006)

So how exactly is this intrusive? You can get rid of it if you want to see something on your paused screen. With that in mind, how is a line of text on your paused screen interrupting your TV viewing habits?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yes Sir!


That's better.

Last night one of my Tivos got 9.3.2a, so I was assuming that had something to do with these ads. I haven't had time to check it out yet, but now I guess I won't go looking for ads on that Tivo.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> So it's just another item on a menu that leads to an ad. BFD.


No, it's not. It's an ad that pops up overlaying the picture when you hit the pause button while watching a show.

It's obvious that different people here use their TiVo's in very different ways, but this would annoy -me- quite a bit. I use the pause a lot to see stuff on screen, and now I have another thing that I have to clear out of the way.

I have read repeatedly from someone here about how he "always hits the clear button anyway - so no change for him". That's great for him. I don't (always), so this would just be another way to reduce the experience for me a tad more.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> That's better.
> 
> Last night one of my Tivos got 9.3.2a, so I was assuming that had something to do with these ads. I haven't had time to check it out yet, but now I guess I won't go looking for ads on that Tivo.


9.3.2a supposedly fixes a bug where some people were not able to download Amazon correctly. As far as ads go it should be identical to 9.3.2. I hear only broadband connected S2s will get the 2a, since the phone connected units won't be using Amazon and won't need it.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

jhimmel said:


> I have read repeatedly from someone here about how he "always hits the clear button anyway - so no change for him". That's great for him. I don't (always), so this would just be another way to reduce the experience for me a tad more.


That must be one smart and handsome guy.

Question I have is has the pause "banner" timeout changed because of the new addition?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Einselen said:


> Question I have is has the pause "banner" timeout changed because of the new addition?


Not that I have noticed.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

Einselen said:


> That must be one smart and handsome guy.


Couldn't say.


> Question I have is has the pause "banner" timeout changed because of the new addition?


I don't know. I'm spared for the time being because I only have S3's. But it has been said that it will be coming to us soon enough.

I'm going to be pausing like crazy over here taking advantage of the time I have left! 

Jim H.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

jhimmel said:


> No, it's not. It's an ad that pops up overlaying the picture when you hit the pause button while watching a show.


According to the pic posted by RoyK it's exactly what I said it was - an item on a menu list that leads to an ad. The menu is displayed over the paused picture, but it's still just menu.
Just the words "Horton Hears A Who Holiday Fun" isn't an ad. It's one of two options on a menu hat you have to choose in order to see the content of the ad. The other option is "More About..." the title you are watching which takes you to the swivel search for that title.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> According to the pic posted by RoyK it's exactly what I said it was - an item on a menu list that leads to an ad. The menu is displayed over the paused picture, but it's still just menu.
> Just the words "Horton Hears A Who Holiday Fun" isn't an ad. It's one of two options on a menu hat you have to choose in order to see the content of the ad. The other option is "More About..." the title you are watching which takes you to the swivel search for that title.


Its every bit as much an ad as Coca-Cola on a billboard. And it is overlaying program content. The same for the 'More About' stupidity. Admittedly stationary content but still we often pause programming to read on screen text.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> According to the pic posted by RoyK it's exactly what I said it was - an item on a menu list that leads to an ad. The menu is displayed over the paused picture, but it's still just menu.
> Just the words "Horton Hears A Who Holiday Fun" isn't an ad. It's one of two options on a menu hat you have to choose in order to see the content of the ad. The other option is "More About..." the title you are watching which takes you to the swivel search for that title.


I disagree with your assessment (the product is clearly indicated in the "menu" item), but its just semantics anyway. I do have a question for you though - does it matter to you either way? If TiVo expands this (like I believe they have stated they intend to), it will remove even the question of semantics. Will you still be as happy about it if there are full blown motion ads overlayed on your "paused" screen?


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Well then everything on every Tivo menu is an ad for whatever feature it takes you to when you choose it.

I'd care if it mattered, but it's just TV.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

I DEMAND the following:

1. NO ADS!!! Ever!

2. I don't want to have to PAY for content. It all should be free!!

3. My favorite programs should not be cancelled!!!!!


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## Yellowtoes (Nov 26, 2003)

I TIVO "Jeopardy" every day and, being an old fart, like to pause before some of the answers are given so my wife and I can try to come up with answers of our own. Only now, thanks to those freakin' ads and bars, we can't read the Jeopardy questions anymore because the lower half of the screen is blocked out.

Similarly, trying to pause during a football game to see whether or not a call was correct becomes impossible because of the added ads and clutter.

I was already annoyed at how cluttered the TIVO interface was getting, but this is really beyond the pale. TIVO needs to give people the option to turn the clutter off - or suffer the negative word of mouth from formerly enthusiastic users (and I've been an evangelist for a long time. Currently, I'd tell people to go with whatever cheap/free DVR their cable company offers rather than TIVO)


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

Turtleboy said:


> I DEMAND the following:
> 
> 1. NO ADS!!! Ever!
> 
> ...


Right, only

People simply expressed their displeasure with a new revenue scheme that interferes with their enjoyment in some way. BFD.

1. I never said that - not sure who did. I don't want pop-ups over my paused screen - I am often pausing specifically to see something on the screen. Not the end of the world - lets not get ridiculous now.

2. I didn't say that - not sure who did. I pay for the content, I pay for the TiVo service. Together, I pay over $100 a month. I understand TiVo's desire (need) to increase revenue and survive. They will have to ride a fine line. They already have trouble building subscribers. Bugger it up too much with undesirable crap that actually becomes a nuisance, and they will not build user base. The ad revenue is tied to user base. As a matter of fact, contrary to your #2, I would pay 25% MORE if it meant TiVo could survive without buggering up my user experience. So lets stop the silly exaggerations.

3. None of us -want- our favorite shows canceled. Whether or not they -should- be is another matter.

Eventually TiVo may employ an ad tactic that affects the way you use your TiVo (but not necessarily the way I use mine). You might find it annoying or invasive to your viewing enjoyment. I assume you wont say a word about it. That's your prerogative.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Yellowtoes said:


> I TIVO "Jeopardy" every day and, being an old fart, like to pause before some of the answers are given so my wife and I can try to come up with answers of our own. Only now, thanks to those freakin' ads and bars, we can't read the Jeopardy questions anymore because the lower half of the screen is blocked out.
> 
> Similarly, trying to pause during a football game to see whether or not a call was correct becomes impossible because of the added ads and clutter.


It's not impossible. Press Clear after pressing Pause. I'll give you annoying, irritating, frustrating, and distracting however .


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

And here I thought this thread was gonna be about a new SPAM can with the TiVo guy on the side. Mmmm.... SPAM... /drools


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Well then everything on every Tivo menu is an ad for whatever feature it takes you to when you choose it.
> 
> I'd care if it mattered, but it's just TV.


Fine. You make no distinction between a menu item for a TiVo feature, and a menu item that is for a paid-for third party product. I do.

So nothing that TiVo might do matters to you because "it's just TV"? If that's the case, I'm glad you told me. I'll take that into consideration when reading your posts.

I happen to use my TiVo's a lot - have been using the service for many many years. It may very well be that I simply care more about it than you do. That's okay.


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## TiVo'Brien (Feb 8, 2002)

TiVo Inc.'s greedy lack of respect for its customers' preferences is coming through loud and clear and it gets louder and clearer with each software revision. If they cared about my viewing experience, they'd allow me to opt out of the ads. This is supposed to be TV my way, isn't it? I'm on the verge of becoming a TiVo anti-evangelist. (_"TiVo's gone downhill. It's full of ads now. Just get the cable DVR."_)

At least for now disconnecting the network cable cuts down on the amount of garbage they can festoon my TiVo with.


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## self (Jul 10, 2002)

TiVo'Brien said:


> TiVo Inc.'s greedy lack of respect for its customers' preferences


TiVo's customers are the advertisers and television networks; their users are a resource to be sold.

What I don't understand is why TiVo has continued with that particular business model since it has never worked for them.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

self said:


> TiVo's customers are the advertisers and television networks; their users are a resource to be sold.
> 
> What I don't understand is why TiVo has continued with that particular business model since it has never worked for them.


Because Tivo has tried to make $ by just collecting service fees and they weren't profitable either. It turns out no one wants to just give Tivo money, even its users, no matter how much they like the service. Tivo should have just borrowed a page from the cable company and raised their fees $0.50-$1.00 every year, and desensitized its users. Now any time Tivo tries anything new to monetize more out of its sub bases, people scream bloody murder and point towards the good old days.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> 2. I didn't say that - not sure who did. I pay for the content, I pay for the TiVo service. Together, I pay over $100 a month.


that is the missing connection for you
you pay over 100$ a month to have the content DELIVERED and recorded. Those 30 sec ad spots are what currently pay for actually making the content. We DVR users happily skip over them and as DVR use increases that makes revenues from those 30 sec ad spots decrease.

Either some new way to make up that revenue is found or there is less money to CREATE the content. Simple business math. TiVo is looking to the future when ads will be served up in some new way that circumvents those 30 sec spots that more people are skipping over.

If you want to see Lost or Grey's Anatomy or whatever multi-million dollars per episode show you like then either you will pay WAY MORE than 100$ a month directly out of pocket or we will all put up with ads that spreads that cost out into a hidden bill on the goods and services we purchase.

The reselling of shows for 2$ a pop is an aftermarket revenue generator that also adds to the budget for shows but those budgets are still heavily subsidized by advertising revenue


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

TiVo'Brien said:


> TiVo Inc.'s greedy lack of respect for its customers' preferences is coming through loud and clear.


yah those untold millions in profits they make is just unbelievable


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

> If you want to see Lost or Grey's Anatomy or whatever multi-million dollars per episode show you like then either you will pay WAY MORE than 100$ a month directly out of pocket or we will all put up with ads that spreads that cost out into a hidden bill on the goods and services we purchase.


If the entertainment industry actually had to sell their product to the actual consumers of the product to make money there wouldn't be any million dollar episodes of anything. Advertising revenue allows the entertainment industry to be very lucrative - if advertising revenue declined then the entertainment industry would need to adjust - actors are paid on part based on profit or potential profit - if the profit is less they will be paid less.

I find it amusing that the general public sentiment is that auto works making $60,000+/- per year are over paid and are causing that industry to fail, but we have no problem with people in the entertainment industry making that much in one week (or even 1 day) - all because the true cost of entertainment is hidden from us by advertising.

Thanks,


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## self (Jul 10, 2002)

yunlin12 said:


> Because Tivo has tried to make $ by just collecting service fees and they weren't profitable either.


Nope.

First, TiVo always tried to blackmail and lie to its users: you have to pay for them to not turn off the box, not for what they actually supplied. TiVo never charged for the guide data, and they only once charged for a software update. Which seemed to have gone fairly well, for some definition of "fairly well."

The whole purpose of the subsidized box was so that they could get enough market penetration to have valuable user data -- they specifically said, years ago, that having one million users meant they could suddenly sell useful data to advertisers and networks, and it was clear, when they started saying that, whom they considered their real customer base to be. (To be fair, the more paranoid and cynical felt that way a while before that point in time.)

And at this point, they've been selling their users longer than they tried treating their users as their actual customers.

Hindsight is 20/20, as they say, and TiVo's made a whole bunch of mistakes, but most of them seemed generally sane at the time. The problem is that they've _kept_ doing the same failing thing, year after year after year.


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## SpiritualPoet (Jan 14, 2007)

Although like many I pause TiVo's 30 minute cache or during playback due to an interruption needing my attention. However, sometimes I pause to examine visual detail (such as a note (or letter)) on the screen in a movie a character is reading, a recipe for some food, or other such purposes. I find it irritating that I have to push the clear button to remove any TiVo pop up message.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> that is the missing connection for you
> you pay over 100$ a month to have the content DELIVERED and recorded. Those 30 sec ad spots are what currently pay for actually making the content. We DVR users happily skip over them and as DVR use increases that makes revenues from those 30 sec ad spots decrease.
> 
> Either some new way to make up that revenue is found or there is less money to CREATE the content. Simple business math. TiVo is looking to the future when ads will be served up in some new way that circumvents those 30 sec spots that more people are skipping over.


Or maybe they just won't be able to afford to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode to actors.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

gonzotek said:


> It's not impossible. Press Clear after pressing Pause. I'll give you annoying, irritating, frustrating, and distracting however .


Pressing fast forward to advance a single frame is faster and easier since your thumb is already right there. That is ever so slightly less annoying, irritating, frustrating and distracting.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

CuriousMark said:


> Pressing fast forward to advance a single frame is faster and easier since your thumb is already right there. That is ever so slightly less annoying, irritating, frustrating and distracting.


Pressing clear clears the screen. FF clears the screen and advances the picture which may not matter, but it might.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> that is the missing connection for you
> you pay over 100$ a month to have the content DELIVERED and recorded. Those 30 sec ad spots are what currently pay for actually making the content. We DVR users happily skip over them and as DVR use increases that makes revenues from those 30 sec ad spots decrease.
> 
> Either some new way to make up that revenue is found or there is less money to CREATE the content. Simple business math.


Maybe I AM missing the connection.

How does buying ad space from TiVo help pay for making content? I'm not saying it doesn't - just asking. Who is paying for the ads and who gets the money?

The money for the ads you are talking about (that we are skipping) went to the studios, which in turn could fund programming. You are implying that this is the new model to bridge the emerging gap. But isn't TiVo getting the money from this new model? I would appreciate your explanation - it's not my area of expertise.

Lastly - a portion of my $100 a month DOES fund content creation. Verizon does not broadcast premium content without contracts. Networks are another matter.

Jim H.


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## self (Jul 10, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> If the entertainment industry actually had to sell their product to the actual consumers of the product to make money there wouldn't be any million dollar episodes of anything.


Yeah, that's why movies have commercials in them, and DVD sales are so unprofitable. (Light sarcasm there . Product placement helps offset the cost of the movies, but isn't actually necessary -- my favourite example is _Josie and the Pussycats_ which parodied it hugely, but didn't use it.)

Advertising as a model works, to some degrees; direct sales as a model works, to some degrees; and selling a service as a model works, to some degrees. While I seriously dislike TiVo's business models, I don't know that they ever had any chance of making money, since the cable companies were always going to be able to undercut them. (I am very much looking forward to what happens with DirecTV next year. It could be their future. But so could simply being a company that does nothing but sue people over patents that are questionable at best.)


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

kmill14 said:


> So how exactly is this intrusive? You can get rid of it if you want to see something on your paused screen. With that in mind, how is a line of text on your paused screen interrupting your TV viewing habits?


Do you watch sports ? Did you ever have to get information from the a paused program ? They should change the button on the remote to "hold-program-info" button, because it doesnt stop or pause. It doesnt serve its purposes, Sorry Tivo you lost my recommendation as a customer..


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

> Yeah, that's why movies have commercials in them, and DVD sales are so unprofitable. (Light sarcasm there . Product placement helps offset the cost of the movies, but isn't actually necessary -- my favourite example is Josie and the Pussycats which parodied it hugely, but didn't use it.)


 So are you willing to pay $7 per 2 hours of TV per person? That's what it takes for a movie to be profitable at the movie theater. DVDs/rentals are as cheap as they are because they are add on revenue after the movie made money in the theater or after the TV show was paid for by advertising. Total US television advertising is somewhere in the 45-50 *Billion* dollar range. So thats what we would have to make up in user fees if advertising went away.

Thanks,


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> Maybe I AM missing the connection.
> 
> How does buying ad space from TiVo help pay for making content? I'm not saying it doesn't - just asking. Who is paying for the ads and who gets the money?
> 
> The money for the ads you are talking about (that we are skipping) went to the studios, which in turn could fund programming. You are implying that this is the new model to bridge the emerging gap. But isn't TiVo getting the money from this new model? I would appreciate your explanation - it's not my area of expertise.


 TiVo in its public statements points to the future time when 3 0sec ad spots are no longer big revenue makers because the number of DVRs has made them obsolete. At that point advertisers will be looking for the next way to deliver ads to the public. TiVo hopes to have the technology the advertisers will need at that future point. In the meantime Tivo makes some change off of running ads itself to a small subset of the larger advertising audience.


> Lastly - a portion of my $100 a month DOES fund content creation. Verizon does not broadcast premium content without contracts. Networks are another matter.


fair enough but hardly denting that 40 Billion and up total price tag.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> TiVo in its public statements points to the future time when 3 0sec ad spots are no longer big revenue makers because the number of DVRs has made them obsolete. At that point advertisers will be looking for the next way to deliver ads to the public. TiVo hopes to have the technology the advertisers will need at that future point. In the meantime Tivo makes some change off of running ads itself to a small subset of the larger advertising audience.


I still don't see how TiVo's ads are a substitute for network ads (where the networks received the money for the ads) when it comes to content creation.
Maybe I'm being dense - can you explain further?

Lets say someone is selling Dishwashing liquid. They pay a network for a 30 second spot during targeted programming. The network uses a portion of that revenue to help pay for content. The company is, in a sense, helping to sponsor that program.

Now, because we are skipping those 30 second spots, the dishwashing liquid company decides their ad money is better spent purchasing a banner from TiVo. How does that fund content creation?

Now, the Horton Hears a Who ad could presumably bring more viewers and help them sell more product, that I could see. But that is very different than implying that these banner ads from TiVo will somehow be a substitute for the vast majority of ads that we are currently "skipping" with our DVR's when it comes to content creation.

You said I am missing the connection, and you are right - I still am. WHAT is this piece that I am missing?

Jim H.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

jhimmel said:


> Lets say someone is selling Dishwashing liquid. They pay a network for a 30 second spot during targeted programming. The network uses a portion of that revenue to help pay for content. The company is, in a sense, helping to sponsor that program.
> 
> Now, because we are skipping those 30 second spots, the dishwashing liquid company decides their ad money is better spent purchasing a banner from TiVo. How does that fund content creation?


The network can tag that spot and subcontract TiVo to display a banner over that commercial while it is fast forwarding and can place the add in the TiVo showcase and place a pause button for it so that it shows in the pauses in the segments before and after the 30 second spot. They can sell this enhanced ad to the Dish soap company for a higher price than they can the 30 second spot alone.

But what is to keep the soap company from paying the network less and contracting directly with TiVo? Nothing I suppose, but if they all do that, content will rot away and then there is no place for any ad to go. They would have to be willing to think long term and purchase that using the network as the intermediary. That spells an ugly period for the whole industry while issues like this sort themselves out.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

CuriousMark said:


> The network can tag that spot and subcontract TiVo to display a banner over that commercial while it is fast forwarding and can place the add in the TiVo showcase and place a pause button for it so that it shows in the pauses in the segments before and after the 30 second spot. They can sell this enhanced ad to the Dish soap company for a higher price than they can the 30 second spot alone.
> 
> But what is to keep the soap company from paying the network less and contracting directly with TiVo? Nothing I suppose, but if they all do that, content will rot away and then there is no place for any ad to go. They would have to be willing to think long term and purchase that using the network as the intermediary. That spells an ugly period for the whole industry while issues like this sort themselves out.


Thanks mark.
Sounds messy to me, and like you said, the network may still ultimately get cut out of the loop.
This whole thing just does not seem like a good idea.
As it is now, I often stop while FF'ing through commercials because something catches my eye. I actually DO watch clever and interesting commercials.

I just wish TiVo would raise their prices 25% in an attempt to become profitable (could be lowered again if they manage to increase customers), and leave the commercial problem for the networks and manufacturers to figure out.

Maybe it's actually not necessary for actors to be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per episode?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> You said I am missing the connection, and you are right - I still am. WHAT is this piece that I am missing?
> 
> Jim H.


the piece that this is TiVo looking to the future and this is not a one for one on how it works on the TiVo right now.
Also, as CuriousMark points out, the Industry is not turning on a dime and doing this overnight. This will evolve over time and TiVo wants to have something that gives them a place at the table when the rules change.

Right now it is ads on the TiVo and of course TiVo pursues that revenue opportunity but it is about more than just that revenue to TiVo inc. as they look to shape themselves as more than just a seller of DVR appliances.

People on this board phrase the fight as solely about the ads now and the revenue now, but TiVo is throwing out forward looking statements that shape the battle as more of an evolutionary process of ads finding their way to the eyeballs as they always have and always will.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> the piece that this is TiVo looking to the future and this is not a one for one on how it works on the TiVo right now.
> Also, as CuriousMark points out, the Industry is not turning on a dime and doing this overnight. This will evolve over time and TiVo wants to have something that gives them a place at the table when the rules change.
> 
> Right now it is ads on the TiVo and of course TiVo pursues that revenue opportunity but it is about more than just that revenue to TiVo inc. as they look to shape themselves as more than just a seller of DVR appliances.
> ...


Thanks Zeo, although you never answered my question.

You said this -



> that is the missing connection for you
> you pay over 100$ a month to have the content DELIVERED and recorded. Those 30 sec ad spots are what currently pay for actually making the content. We DVR users happily skip over them and as DVR use increases that makes revenues from those 30 sec ad spots decrease.
> 
> Either some new way to make up that revenue is found or there is less money to CREATE the content. Simple business math. TiVo is looking to the future when ads will be served up in some new way that circumvents those 30 sec spots that more people are skipping over.


You never explained what I am missing in terms of this new method solving the problem of reduced revenue for -content creation-.
At this point, I think you just made a mistake in that particular argument and we'll leave it at that.

Jim H.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> Thanks Zeo, although you never answered my question.
> 
> You said this -
> 
> ...


Yeah. I expect to see a formation of pigs go by at 1000ft overhead before TiVo forks over any of the ad money to the content providers.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Yeah. I expect to see a formation of pigs go by at 1000ft overhead before TiVo forks over any of the ad money to the content providers.


Right. If anything, it seems to make the situation WORSE. Now, not only is TiVo providing a device to assist in avoiding ads that provide revenue to the networks, but they are enticing the advertisers away from the networks entirely. Interesting.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> Thanks Zeo, although you never answered my question.
> 
> You said this -
> 
> ...


I have not made a mistake in what I am saying. *You* decided I somehow said that the pause ad is paying for content creation. I never said nor thought that, so of course can not answer some question on how I thought that.

You continue to miss the point I did actually make that what TiVo is doing now is seen, by TiVo inc., as laying the groundowrk for technology that can be used someday *in the future* to replace those 30 sec ad spots with something that is not being skipped over by DVR users as more people use DVRs and it drops the viewers of 30 sec ad spots below what is acceptable to those paying for the 30 sec ad spots. That future tech may not look anything like what we see now, but TiVo feels they have to start somehwere NOW in order to be ready for future conditions.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

RoyK said:


> Yeah. I expect to see a formation of pigs go by at 1000ft overhead before TiVo forks over any of the ad money to the content providers.


point missed again. TiVo is not forking over any money nor have i ever said they would, they are looking to SELL THE TECHNOLOGY they create to various content delivery systems. It really is a simple point and I am surprised how every ad on the screen seems painfully obvious to you all when you have such a hard time seeing such a simple point.


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## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ZeoTiVo said:


> .... they are looking to SELL THE TECHNOLOGY they create to various content delivery systems. It really is a simple point and I am surprised how *every ad on the screen seems painfully obvious to you all*


You got that much right


ZeoTiVo said:


> when you have such a hard time seeing such a simple point.


We understand completely. Tivo is pimping out its users and charging them for the pleasure.


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> You continue to miss the point I did actually make that what TiVo is doing now is seen, by TiVo inc., as laying the groundowrk for technology that can be used someday *in the future* to replace those 30 sec ad spots with something that is not being skipped over by DVR users as more people use DVRs and it drops the viewers of 30 sec ad spots below what is acceptable to those paying for the 30 sec ad spots.


No, I didn't miss that point. That point is obvious. However, you brought up content creation.

I am not "missing the connection" (as you said) because there is no connection between what TiVo is doing and what the networks are losing - except in a negative way.

No, it's all quite clear.

Jim H.


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## neticsfo (Dec 15, 2008)

usually I won;t click through any message that has no explanation of what it is


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> No, I didn't miss that point. No, it's all quite clear.


yes you did miss it, but clearly missed it deliberately. We all got it, You and RoyK do not like ads and will not engage in any debate on it based in reality. have fun with that.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

The future looks darker and darker with Tivo, when Tru2way for mediacenter is released, i may just part ways with Tivo over this. Why cant they understand breaking the function of a DVR is going to upset people. I understand the desire for revenue, but Tivo isnt that great in its current form, see menu transitions, netflix, etc. Usually when a company ads advertising to it model, its not a sign of good health. Again media just doesnt get it.


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## Langree (Apr 29, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> Why cant they understand breaking the function of a DVR is going to upset people.


It's broken?

Mine isn't, still has the functionality it had when I got it.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> The future looks darker and darker with Tivo, when Tru2way for mediacenter is released, i may just part ways with Tivo over this. Why cant they understand breaking the function of a DVR is going to upset people. I understand the desire for revenue, but Tivo isnt that great in its current form, see menu transitions, netflix, etc. Usually when a company ads advertising to it model, its not a sign of good health. Again media just doesnt get it.


Google's core model is advertising, are they in poor health? How the advertising is presented, however, is crucial to its effectiveness. If it sours the viewers' experiences than it is unlikely to generate enough revenue to make it worth the cost. Google has found ways to present advertising, that for a majority of their users, does not sour the experience, and can, at times, even enhance it. TiVo is trying to duplicate that model, but (IMHO) in this case fell far short of that goal.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

gonzotek said:


> Google's core model is advertising, are they in poor health? How the advertising is presented, however, is crucial to its effectiveness. If it sours the viewers' experiences than it is unlikely to generate enough revenue to make it worth the cost. Google has found ways to present advertising, that for a majority of their users, does not sour the experience, and can, at times, even enhance it. TiVo is trying to duplicate that model, but (IMHO) in this case fell far short of that goal.


Well Tivo isnt an adversting company, nor does tivo had a hosting service. However the rest of your post is dead on. Tivo is creating Frankenstein monster, and expecting it to be like a princess. Yup its falling short.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Langree said:


> It's broken?
> 
> Mine isn't, still has the functionality it had when I got it.


Mine isn't broken either.

I think the problem some people are having with their TiVos is a severe overdose of hyperbole.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> Well Tivo isnt an adversting company, nor does tivo had a hosting service. However the rest of your post is dead on. Tivo is creating Frankenstein monster, and expecting it to be like a princess. Yup its falling short.


TiVo thinks it's an advertising service. That's why they are (trying to) push the ads, after all. I'm not sure what you mean about the hosting service, can you explain?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> Well Tivo isnt an adversting company, nor does tivo had a hosting service. However the rest of your post is dead on. Tivo is creating Frankenstein monster, and expecting it to be like a princess. Yup its falling short.


TiVo has moved from being a DVR and into being an aggregator of content. Yes the content is not its own and that is indeed the new ground TiVo is breaking in providing another place for ads that goes beyond content creator and even the broadcaster of the content.

Netflix is also an aggregator of content and is ad free but that is because it is the after original showing rental revenue.

the problem that is looming is in the first shown TV realm where those 30 sec spots can get expensive because of the eyeballs potential. DVRs subtract from that potential. The content creators will have to find some other way over time to pay the bills and pull their profit that gives them the incentive to invest in finding more new content to produce and provide to content consumers.

we consumers can foot the bill directly; which will be either expensive or else you get cheap content, otherwise we consumers will have to deal with whatever new mechanism is found to present ads in the interactive realms of DVRs and Streaming and HTPC and so forth. Someone is going to have to figure out that new mechanism for ad delivery and then build it. Whoever that is can make money on selling that new mechanism even if they are not in the business of creating content or advertising.

All I am trying to do in presenting these FACTS is to lineup what TiVo DVR users will have to face going forward. Ads are not going away until we consumers pay for content in some other form. In our mainly capitalistic economy I for one vote for ads footing the bill for new content instead of me the consumer.

I already pay enough just for the delivery of the content.


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## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

macquariumguy said:


> Mine isn't broken either.
> 
> I think the problem some people are having with their TiVos is a severe overdose of hyperbole.


What is the purpose of "pause" when its cluttered with junk, have you ever watched any sports on tv ?


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> What is the purpose of "pause" when its cluttered with junk, have you ever watched any sports on tv ?


Yes.

I pause - hit clear button
and then use FF/RW buttons to move around or else hit slow.

I still do the same thing


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## jhimmel (Dec 27, 2002)

ZeoTiVo said:


> yes you did miss it, but clearly missed it deliberately. We all got it, You and RoyK do not like ads and will not engage in any debate on it based in reality. have fun with that.


Well, you certainly can't back that up. Plus, you keep trying to twist your way out of your silly comments.

Maybe you could point out which of my statements is not based in reality?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

ZeoTiVo said:


> Yes.
> 
> I pause - hit clear button
> and then use FF/RW buttons to move around or else hit slow.
> ...


Don't waste the thumb travel to hit the clear button, FF does it too.


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## dgf123 (Nov 29, 2008)

I just got my first MOXI HD DVR! It is great! No subscription fees and no adds or annoying pop ups! I think Tivo could be in for some much needed competition and should be careful about their add policy.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

jhimmel said:


> Well, you certainly can't back that up. Plus, you keep trying to twist your way out of your silly comments.
> 
> Maybe you could point out which of my statements is not based in reality?


the fact you would not even get how TiVo is working on ad delivery technology they can sell later to various braodcasters/content providers. In fact TiVo already has a contract with Comcast for interactive ad delivery. That is the reality and fact but you call them MY silly comments when all I am doing is speaking the reality of the thing you claim you want to stop seeing on your TiVo. Know what you are fighting.
What I post certainly is not putting TiVo in a better light. They are basically using the DVR we subscribe to as the laboratory. You decided though it was just another apologist set of posts when it was not that at all.


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

Videodrome said:


> What is the purpose of "pause" when its cluttered with junk, have you ever watched any sports on tv ?


You pause live sports so you can go return your beer. Doh.


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