# The Walking Dead - "Too Far Gone" 12/01/2013



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

So speechless and want to read what everybody thinks about this episode.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I wished Bry's GF had not shot him and let the biters go at 'em!


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gossamer88 said:


> I wished Bry's GF had not shot him and let the biters go at 'em!


Yeah, Michonne could teach her a thing or two about vengeance in a post-zombie-apocalypse world.

So it looks like we'll have at least a few potentially angry, psychotic survivors of the Guv's former new crew. And Herschel is finally gone. I wonder how long it will take the Rickites to regroup? The whole rest of the season, or just a few episodes?


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I think that was Michonne's plan -- let the Gov get eaten or turned. She looked at him suffering and kept stepping.

Wanted to see Maggie take out the Gov but Michonne was ok to do it. I felt it coming when he reminded us about Andrea.

So sick of Lilly (aka Lori/Andrea). She had ONE job. *Watch her kid*. Why couldn't she do that?

Sick of the sheeple who followed the Gov after knowing him for a minute.

So sorry Hershel is gone. I'd rather see them take out Bob but it wouldn't have left the same impact on the viewers.

Glad they are OUT OF THE PRISON!!


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Where did michonne run off to? She saves rick then disappears


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Test said:


> Where did michonne run off to? She saves rick then disappears


Probably off to kill some more people.

So we have the bus people, the kids, Rick & Carl, Tyrese & Daryl, and Michonne all separated. And of course Carol. Anybody else?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Probably off to kill some more people.
> 
> So we have the bus people, the kids, Rick & Carl, Tyrese & Daryl, and Michonne all separated. And of course Carol. *Anybody else?*


Judith? Maybe, hopefully she's on the bus?


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Beryl said:


> Glad they are OUT OF THE PRISON!!


remember when people complained because they hadn't made it to the prison?


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

Damn. Very intense. The scene with Hershel dying was tough.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Okay, so the Guv says he wants the prison...then he gets the tank to start blowing holes in it and destroys the fence. This does not compute. Glad to see him gone. 

Interesting that Daryl's reaction to the news about Carol was not as explosive as we all thought it might be.

Really loved the kids with the guns and shooting instead of hiding. 

I bet Judith is somewhere safe. It may have just been easier to grab a baby rather than a baby in a car seat.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I think the little girls took Judith!


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Rick and the Guv pounding on each other was great, but I wish Rick had gotten to beat on him a little more. 

Rick really did seem to be trying to think things out while he was talking to the Guv. He was acknowledging that he wasn't the sole decision maker, that they could all live together - just in different cellblocks, and then the offer if anyone wanted to just come walk thru the gate they could. That was a great show of growth for him. 

I found it interesting how this was a group that went from not really wanting to fight and not really into the Gov's plan to becoming full blown takeover it all militia.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I knew Hershel was going to buy it but it still gutted me!


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## SocratesJohnson (Sep 14, 2005)

zalusky said:


> I think the little girls took Judith!


But why the blood in the baby carrier?


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

February!!



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Probably off to kill some more people.
> 
> So we have the bus people, the kids, Rick & Carl, Tyrese & Daryl, and Michonne all separated. And of course Carol. Anybody else?


Glenn's on the bus. I think Beth, drunk guy and Karen are together. Are Tyrese & Daryl together? Where's Maggie?

Hopefully, they had a rally point.

On the other team, Ponytail and Bry's girlfriend are alive. (Are they sisters?)



zalusky said:


> I think the little girls took Judith!


And I think they'll be hiding in the prison, going feral. Someone will have to go back for them.

As some one else said, I think Carol took the fall for that oldest girl.



betts4 said:


> Rick and the Guv pounding on each other was great, but I wish Rick had gotten to beat on him a little more.


Master plan: I'll let him beat on me until someone saves me.

No mercy for the tank driver!

At the end, as more walkers were converging on the prison, the camera dwelled on one female walker. Was she someone?


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## Maui (Apr 22, 2000)

tlc said:


> Are Tyrese & Daryl together?


Didn't Tyrese take off after the girls when they saved him (the girls was a great shot by the way) I thought he said they took off the wrong direction and went after them.

I get the strange feeling Carol might have been covering for one of the kids.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

I was sad to see Herschel go, although of all the "main characters" he was the most obvious to lose. I was actually worried we might lose one of the really central characters.

I am happy that they're out of the prison though.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> So we have the bus people, the kids, Rick & Carl, Tyrese & Daryl, and Michonne all separated. And of course Carol. Anybody else?


 Maggie is with Bob and Sasha; no idea where they ended up.



tlc said:


> Glenn's on the bus. Beth, drunk guy and Karen are together. Are Tyrese & Daryl together?
> 
> On the other team, Ponytail and Bry's girlfriend are alive. (Are they sisters?)


Karen is dead: that's who Carol killed. You mean Sasha, Tyrese's sister. But I think that's Maggie with them. I don't know what happened to Beth; Maggie was looking for her and ran into Bob and Sasha, but I don't remember seeing Beth at all after Maggie left her on the bus.

I thought Tyrese was with the kids.

Yes, Tara (ponytail) and Lilly (Bry's girlfriend) are sisters.


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

If anyone's read the comics, there were some interesting connections in this episode.

So, you want to live in the prison, and the first thing you do is ruin the fence?

Seems to me a couple people with scoped hunting rifles on the roof would have done a lot of good. But if I start nit-picking gun stuff on this show, I could go on for hours.


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## Michael S (Jan 12, 2004)

I was hoping Rick would through the guv in front of the tank just for good measure to make sure hes actually dead.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

MrGreg said:


> So, you want to live in the prison, and the first thing you do is ruin the fence?


To the extent that he ever might have wanted to live in the prison, by that time he was over it and just wanted to KILL people.


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## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> To the extent that he ever might have wanted to live in the prison, by that time he was over it and just wanted to KILL people.


Exactly. The guv never wanted the prison. He wanted to kill them all. I would normally say that the guv's people were ridiculous for following him like that but I've discovered that there are a lot of sheep who will follow anyone who acts like a leader to the bitter end.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

SocratesJohnson said:


> But why the blood in the baby carrier?


I assumed an injured person removed her from the carrier.
Why remove her in the first place?, I have no idea.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I thought I saw Daryl and Beth leave together.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Azlen said:


> Exactly. The guv never wanted the prison. He wanted to kill them all. I would normally say that the guv's people were ridiculous for following him like that but I've discovered that there are a lot of sheep who will follow anyone who acts like a leader to the bitter end.


Jim Jones comes to mind.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Azlen said:


> Exactly. The guv never wanted the prison. He wanted to kill them all. I would normally say that the guv's people were ridiculous for following him like that but I've discovered that there are a lot of sheep who will follow anyone who acts like a leader to the bitter end.


I think he wanted the prison to begin with, in order to build his new Woodbury and keep his new tribe safe. But if there was anything left of that impulse after he saw Michonne, it vanished when he saw the little girl's body. And that was certainly the point at which is stopped being a homicide mission and started being a mass suicide mission (i.e., when he was willing to kill all his followers and himself as well to get rid of Rick, Michonne, etc.).

I think he really wanted to be a better person. He just didn't have it in him. Circumstances were always going to arouse his inner demons. (As at Woodbury, so at the trailer park, so at the prison).


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Surprised to see Hershel go since I saw the actor about a month ago and asked two questions: are they still filming this season's episodes and are you still alive. He answered yes to both questions.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Maggie was with Bob and Sasha. 
Daryl and Beth were together. 
Tyrese is with Lizzie, Mika, and maybe other children. 
Carl and Rick are together. 
Michonne was on her own. 
I think the rest of our survivors were on the bus.

So Tyrese is off on a learning curve with a group of girls, conveniently ignorant of Carol killing Karen. I bet they meet up with Carol somehow and become a nice family unit.

I don't think Judith is dead. Although my first reaction was "Well, now they won't have a screaming toddler to deal with while traipsing through the woods for the next six months" I think that if she was dead they would have been a little more anvillicious about it. The carrier would have been turned over, the bedding ripped apart, and more gore. As it was I had to rewind to see how much blood there was in the thing and I think not near enough to telegraph a child death.
I also think Michonne has Judith strapped to her back and is galloping away on her horse. She quickly disappeared as if for something specific and they didn't give us that Michonne/Judith scene earlier this season for nothing- _that_ is anvillicious..

I saw Irish zombie girl there, but alas no Ed 

Funny how wanna be a cop girl crumbled at the first sign of fire.

Governor should have suffered more and longer- if Herschel had to crawl around with his head half off before being bludgeoned and beheaded I wanted to see fear and pain and extreme agony on the Governors face.
But I am so glad he's dead that I don't even care.


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## trnsfrguy (Apr 28, 2005)

tlc said:


> At the end, as more walkers were converging on the prison, the camera dwelled on one female walker. Was she someone?


On the Talking Dead, the host said it was the crazy woman that Rick encountered earlier this season.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

jamesbobo said:


> Surprised to see Hershel go since I saw the actor about a month ago and asked two questions: are they still filming this season's episodes and are you still alive. He answered yes to both questions.


Clearly he was telling the truth. He's still alive, you were talking to him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

rimler said:


> Clearly he was telling the truth. He's still alive, you were talking to him.


Or he could have been lawyering it, saying that he was still alive (as of the episodes that had aired on that date).

It's really his job to give vague or misleading answers under those circumstances. Or lie, if necessary.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

This ep (save for the first half of more governor baloney) MORE than made up for the last two crappy eps....it could have been set up with one fourth the time spent over the last two weeks.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Oh, and Sepinwall is of the strong opinion that li'l asskicker is definitely dead...I'd have to agree.


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Great episode. The A-Team weapons syndrome where they fire 100's of rounds at each other with automatic weapons with very few of them hitting the target was a little annoying, especially considering that we've seen most of them take out a walker with a pistol striking the center of the forehead from a pretty good distance. 

Glad the Governor is finally gone. I hope they go on the run again and don't return to the prison. How come they haven't tried to make it to the coast to get a boat or find an island with a bridge to it where they can clear all of the walkers out and be either surrounded by water or only have a bridge to defend?


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Well - wow!

First of all I simply must remark that it is troubling that every time there is some bigass fight suddenly all these people, who are like the best sniper shooters of all time, can't hit the side of a barn. So there is massive shooting and the other guys, incl Gov, are still out in the open standing.

Secondly, Michonne! You da woman.  I was glad to see her nail him. I almost expected them to leave it like we don't know if he died or not. Also not understanding why they didn't show the shot to the head by that kid's mother. I think he's dead (?). Wanted to see zombie Gov first, though. 

Weird how all the governor followers just stepped right in line, most of them (despite a great deal of evidence to the contrary) didn't even get that he was not who he represented himself to be until it was WAY too late. Really? They survived that long being that stoopid?

No zombie baby (I totally looked!) so I also predict that Judith isn't dead. She's with one of the groups that hightailed it out of there, IMO. But Rick and Carl sure took it hard. You'd think a parent/sib would hold out hope, but maybe it's a sign of the times. heh - I guess the blood in the car carrier thingie was definitive in their minds. I was kind of hoping to see a zombie baby. (so bad I am)

Bummer that Hershel died.  I didn't want that to happen. It was cool seeing him and Lauren (Maggie) on TD. 

Good episode, though, except for the really bad shooting scene and the ridiculosity of the Governor's plan - either you leave so we can have the place or we destroy the place and - oops!


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

DeDondeEs said:


> Great episode. The A-Team weapons syndrome where they fire 100's of rounds at each other with automatic weapons with very few of them hitting the target was a little annoying, especially considering that we've seen most of them take out a walker with a pistol striking the center of the forehead from a pretty good distance.


It must tie into the theory that all the calcium runs from their skulls to their jaws. Walkers have bullet-only magnetic skulls!


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

I think we will see split story lines next year with 2 possibly 3 groups at first and heading in different directions. Someone will find Carol and one of the groups has the baby. I think they liked the episodes with just the Governor too much to not do it again next year.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Azlen said:


> I would normally say that the guv's people were ridiculous for following him like that but I've discovered that there are a lot of sheep who will follow anyone who acts like a leader to the bitter end.


Hitler


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

I know it may sound strange, but I sure hope the baby is dead. She was really a drag on the entire plot, even mores o now they're on the run again (FINALLY).


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## DeDondeEs (Feb 20, 2004)

Hank said:


> I know it may sound strange, but I sure hope the baby is dead. She was really a drag on the entire plot, even mores o now they're on the run again (FINALLY).


I am sure it is alive, otherwise they would have shown the demise. The special effect people on that show would have drooled at the opportunity to show a walker eating a baby.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Well they did chew up Megan (Not Maggie's daughter) so kids are definitely on the Menu.
I agree the special effects guys would have loved to do it assuming they could get it through standards and practice people.

It's too much of a red herring. I think there is more to come. We still have the rat whisperer story to resolve after all.


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## type_g (Sep 9, 2002)

I think the series was great when they were on the run all the time. Prison time was ok but liked it much better on the run. i would guess one of the kids or Tyrese took the baby after the kid (name escapes my mind) saved Tyrese and they ran into the prison. 

On side note that Rat sacrifice was freaky. I am guessing it's the girl (forget her name) that saved Tyrese with the head shot. It will come to head in next few episode, Tyrese will figure it out that it was her.

All in all this episode was crazy loved every second, except the governor's RA RA speech to get everyone on his side to go after the prison.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Hank said:


> I know it may sound strange, but I sure hope the baby is dead. She was really a drag on the entire plot, even mores o now they're on the run again (FINALLY).


The way she was being bounced around in that carrier by the kids probably left her brain damaged even before the walkers got to her...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

type_g said:


> It will come to head in next few episode, Tyrese will figure it out that it was her.


I had to laugh this episode...usually, people in this kind of show just don't talk to each other so the dramatic tension can be maintained. But now, it's become so impossible to sustain that they had people talking to each other...and then being interrupted before they can actually say anything. Twice!


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Where was Michonne during most of the fight? Early on she killed one of the attackers and seemed to be trying to slip her bonds. I would have expected her to take a knife from the body and be out in a few seconds, and then start taking out the attackers from behind. But she did not appear to get anyone between that first guy and then the Governor.


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## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> Oh, and Sepinwall is of the strong opinion that li'l asskicker is definitely dead...I'd have to agree.


I read the section where he thinks she is dead.. I'll spoiler my response.



Spoiler



His reasoning is stupid - if she was alive, why would they take her out of the carrier? Have you ever carried a baby in a carrier? It's a PITA! If I was going to escape quickly with a baby, I would take her out, and strap her to me.

Also, on Talking Dead they showed a scene from the 2nd half, and they mentioned they couldn't show much because it would spoil it - so I'm thinking people we think are dead, are not actually dead - and that includes the Gov and Judith.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dthmj said:


> I read the section where he thinks she is dead.. I'll spoiler my response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your points are well taken...I guess my tendency to agree with him was based more on my wish that she were gone...


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> Your points are well taken...I guess my tendency to agree with him was based more on my wish that she were gone...


It is the follow the leader (or anyone who speaks with authority) syndrome.


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## Zevida (Nov 8, 2003)

I couldn't take it anymore. As soon as the episode opened up with the Gov speechifying, I started fast forwarding. I FF through most of the episode, stopping to watch a few key things. I really hope that the 2nd half of the season gets more interesting. 

I will probably go back and rewatch this soon, now that I know what happens. I just couldn't take another episode of the Governor.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Cearbhaill said:


> Maggie was with Bob and Sasha.
> So Tyrese is off on a learning curve with a group of girls, conveniently ignorant of Carol killing Karen. I bet they meet up with Carol somehow and become a nice family unit.
> 
> I also think Michonne has Judith strapped to her back and is galloping away on her horse.
> ...


^5 these points/predictions.



Cearbhaill said:


> Governor should have suffered more and longer- if Herschel had to crawl around with his head half off before being bludgeoned and beheaded I wanted to see fear and pain and extreme agony on the Governors face.


It would have been ironic if just Herschel's head rolled over and got him since we saw how heads can become "biters" and the Gov used to keep heads on jars.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

betts4 said:


> Okay, so the Guv says he wants the prison...then he gets the tank to start blowing holes in it and destroys the fence. This does not compute. Glad to see him gone.


I think that was kind of the point of the episode - the folly of it all. They could've easily all lived together in the prison, but they ended up destroying the very thing they were after, as well as a lot, if not most, of them dying. So they lost everything.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

DeDondeEs said:


> I am sure it is alive, otherwise they would have shown the demise. The special effect people on that show would have drooled at the opportunity to show a walker eating a baby.


I don't think that would have flown no matter _what_ network they were trying to get it past.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

MrGreg said:


> Seems to me a couple people with scoped hunting rifles on the roof would have done a lot of good. But if I start nit-picking gun stuff on this show, I could go on for hours.





DeDondeEs said:


> Great episode. The A-Team weapons syndrome where they fire 100's of rounds at each other with automatic weapons with very few of them hitting the target was a little annoying, especially considering that we've seen most of them take out a walker with a pistol striking the center of the forehead from a pretty good distance.





sharkster said:


> Well - wow!
> 
> First of all I simply must remark that it is troubling that every time there is some bigass fight suddenly all these people, who are like the best sniper shooters of all time, can't hit the side of a barn. So there is massive shooting and the other guys, incl Gov, are still out in the open standing.


It really bugs me when we have a showdown like that and guns going off everywhere and no one getting shot. It happened in Breaking Bad. Ugh.

After a few minutes of this they did start making it interesting. I did like Daryl using a Walker as a shield and then tossing grenades down the tank. Only wish Tank guy would have come out in pieces.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

glad to be done with the prison and also glad hershel got whacked (liked him but his arc was played out)


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

betts4 said:


> It really bugs me when we have a showdown like that and guns going off everywhere and no one getting shot. It happened in Breaking Bad. Ugh.
> 
> After a few minutes of this they did start making it interesting. I did like Daryl using a Walker as a shield and then tossing grenades down the tank. Only wish Tank guy would have come out in pieces.


hey i told crow that there was no way the governor could EVER win with the village...lol....


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

betts4 said:


> After a few minutes of this they did start making it interesting. I did like Daryl using a Walker as a shield and then tossing grenades down the tank. Only wish Tank guy would have come out in pieces.


That just made it worse. The walker-shield was WAY more bullet proof than it had any right to be and tossing a grenade down the barrel of a tank wouldn't hurt the people inside unless you did it right at the exact moment when the breach was open to reload.

I mean, it was still fun and exciting, but details bug me sometimes.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

heySkippy said:


> That just made it worse. The walker-shield was WAY more bullet proof than it had any right to be and tossing a grenade down the barrel of a tank wouldn't hurt the people inside unless you did it right at the exact moment when the breach was open to reload.


I thought the same. A fresh corpse probably has about a 50% chance of stopping any given bullet that they were shooting. A rotted, decaying corpse would be less help (especially if all the bones are as soft as the skulls appear to be on this show).

And when he tossed the grenade in the barrel, my immediate reaction was, what the heck does he think that will accomplish?


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Interesting that Daryl's reaction to the news about Carol was not as explosive as we all thought it might be.





tlc said:


> As some one else said, I think Carol took the fall for that oldest girl.





Maui said:


> Didn't Tyrese take off after the girls when they saved him (the girls was a great shot by the way) I thought he said they took off the wrong direction and went after them.
> 
> I get the strange feeling Carol might have been covering for one of the kids.





Cearbhaill said:


> So Tyrese is off on a learning curve with a group of girls, conveniently ignorant of Carol killing Karen. I bet they meet up with Carol somehow and become a nice family unit.





type_g said:


> On side note that Rat sacrifice was freaky. I am guessing it's the girl (forget her name) that saved Tyrese with the head shot. It will come to head in next few episode, Tyrese will figure it out that it was her.


Clearly the older girl (the one with the handgun that saved Tyrese) is the one that killed the two sick people and then Carol covered. We know that now because of that rat sculpture (or whatever that was... a cat maybe?) and the way she acted when the prison was under attack (actually during the negotiations). The only question is whether Tyrese and the kids will have a continuing story line or not. And does Carol get re-introduced into the mix.



john4200 said:


> And when he tossed the grenade in the barrel, my immediate reaction was, what the heck does he think that will accomplish?


Haven't you seen "Band of Brothers"? It stops the cannon from firing by destroying the cylinder.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

jamesbobo said:


> Surprised to see Hershel go since I saw the actor about a month ago and asked two questions: are they still filming this season's episodes and are you still alive. He answered yes to both questions.


At the time you asked, those were both true.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

jradosh said:


> And does Carol get re-introduced into the mix.


Well, of COURSE she does! She's too important to the show to be written out!

They'd write out _Herschel _before they wrote out Carol!

Sheesh, what are you people thinking?!?


jradosh said:


> Haven't you seen "Band of Brothers"? It stops the cannon from firing by destroying the cylinder.


No it doesn't! It makes the whole tank blow up!

Don't you pay any attention?!?

Sheesh! I mean, like, _*SHEESH*_!!


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I enjoyed it.

Man, reading his article I really think Sepinwall is such a tool(this is not new info for me), IMHO stuff breaks down to a scale of "liked it" to "didn't like it" and all the analysis etc. is just noise.

An interesting comment elsewhere was that Baby is not dead because they didn't close the issue and they will not want to revisit it later if the baby is dead.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

If Carol was covering for that girl, then Carol is an idiot for not saying so. I hope she get's eaten.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

dthmj said:


> I read the section where he thinks she is dead.. I'll spoiler my response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



I'll withhold judgment on Judith - although I tend to think she's alive - but I'm sorry, the Guv'nah is deader than a doornail. Not only does he have a sucking chest wound with openings on either side of his torso - which left untreated will kill him within minutes - but clearly they depicted Lily finishing him off with a head shot.

And, of course, Talking Dead included the Guv'nah in their list of characters killed in the ep.


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## Hcour (Dec 24, 2007)

The baby is alive. I guarantee it. You can hold me to that.


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## Crow159 (Jul 28, 2004)

danielhart said:


> hey i told crow that there was no way the governor could EVER win with the village...lol....


In my defense, this season hadn't aired yet!


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Would have been fun to use the Governor as a body armor shield. Perhaps even a head in a lake. BTW that seems to be a mute zombie piranha now.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

JohnB1000 said:


> Man, reading his article I really think Sepinwall is such a tool(this is not new info for me), IMHO stuff breaks down to a scale of "liked it" to "didn't like it" and all the analysis etc. is just noise.


Totally agree. I hate the Sepinwall dude.. it's not like his opinion is any better or worse than anyone else's here... but the interwebs hold him up like some sort of TV god.. and go along with whatever HE says (sound familiar???). Ugh, I wish Michonne would waste him.


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## Crow159 (Jul 28, 2004)

zalusky said:


> Would have been fun to use the Governor as a body armor shield. Perhaps even a head in a lake. BTW that seems to be a mute zombie piranha now.


Even better would be for Michonne to remove his arms and jaw and make a new pet zombie.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> I enjoyed it.
> 
> Man, reading his article I really think Sepinwall is such a tool(this is not new info for me), IMHO stuff breaks down to a scale of "liked it" to "didn't like it" and all the analysis etc. is just noise.





Hank said:


> Totally agree. I hate the Sepinwall dude.. it's not like his opinion is any better or worse than anyone else's here... but the interwebs hold him up like some sort of TV god.. and go along with whatever HE says (sound familiar???). Ugh, I wish Michonne would waste him.


Wow. Such hate. I like Sepinwall - I don't always agree with his reviews, but in general I've found him to be a pretty good barometer for whether I will like a show or not. His book ("The Revolution Was Televised") was really good. I do think he tends to write more terse reviews of late - especially for show he doesn't really like but have lots of viewers so he probably feels like he has to (like TWD).

Most TV critics seem to hate TWD at this point, and I do see why, but I still find it gripping to watch.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Comic readers- I have a question about the sneak peek from the next episode that was shown on last night's Talking Dead. 
Kirkman was a guest and he said that if you had read the comics you should be able to recognize this scene and I want to know what's up.



Spoiler



Carl was walking backwards taunting/leading two walkers away from a house and down a road.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

DreadPirateRob said:


> the Guv'nah is deader than a doornail. Not only does he have a sucking chest wound with openings on either side of his torso - which left untreated will kill him within minutes - but clearly they depicted Lily finishing him off with a head shot.


I've unspoilered this because you're simply restating what happened in the episode. Nothing spoilerish there.

But you forgot to mention the most obvious sign that he's really, truly dead (and most sincerely dead). They showed someone stepping on the king chess piece with the eye patch drawn on it. OBVIOUSLY he's dead. 

But hey... how did that chess piece get there anyway???


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Re Judith... maybe-
Right before Daryl destroyed the tank, it fired one last shot at the walkway (38:50 to 38:54). We see Tyrese running away clutching something close to his chest. This was after he said "No, this way." to the girls.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

jradosh said:


> But hey... how did that chess piece get there anyway???


I figured that the Gov was carrying it around.

Good catch on Judith. It would be cooler if Michonne has her though. The reunion with Carl and Rick will be a tear-jerk no matter who has her.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Hank said:


> I know it may sound strange, but I sure hope the baby is dead. She was really a drag on the entire plot, even mores o now they're on the run again (FINALLY).


 Considering they treated her like infants are always treated in TV shows (they simply pretended she didn't exist most of the time), I don't see how she was a drag on the plot. I think she had about 3 minutes of screen time the entire season.



DeDondeEs said:


> I am sure it is alive, otherwise they would have shown the demise. The special effect people on that show would have drooled at the opportunity to show a walker eating a baby.


 Never happen. I doubt they'd even show that on an HBO original series, much less something like AMC. That's serious horror film stuff.



Zevida said:


> I couldn't take it anymore. As soon as the episode opened up with the Gov speechifying, I started fast forwarding. I FF through most of the episode, stopping to watch a few key things. I really hope that the 2nd half of the season gets more interesting.
> 
> I will probably go back and rewatch this soon, now that I know what happens. I just couldn't take another episode of the Governor.


 I loved these last few episodes with the Governor. I think he's far more interesting as a character than many of the "main" group has been up until now. It was his time to go, so I'm not sad he's dead, but I was happy we got a lot more of him before the end.



Beryl said:


> It would have been ironic if just Herschel's head rolled over and got him since we saw how heads can become "biters" and the Gov used to keep heads on jars.


 I was thinking about this this morning: no one (that we saw) gave the coupe de grace to Herschel's head. That means that his head is still lying in the field, zombified and animated. Ugh! Herschel deserves better!



betts4 said:


> After a few minutes of this they did start making it interesting. I did like Daryl using a Walker as a shield and then tossing grenades down the tank. Only wish Tank guy would have come out in pieces.


 I liked Daryl just taking him out. And a chest shot, as well, so he's going to be a zombie.



jradosh said:


> Clearly the older girl (the one with the handgun that saved Tyrese) is the one that killed the two sick people and then Carol covered. We know that now because of that rat sculpture (or whatever that was... a cat maybe?) and the way she acted when the prison was under attack (actually during the negotiations).


 I'm not saying it's impossible but to me it seems really unlikely. Those were not small adults and Lizzie is not very big. Having her kill them then wrestle those corpses all the way out to the yard and set them on fire just seems unlikely to me.

Lizzie is definitely not right, and I certainly think she COULD have killed them, but I'm not convinced she did it.


----------



## Hank (May 31, 2000)

madscientist said:


> Considering they treated her like infants are always treated in TV shows (they simply pretended she didn't exist most of the time), I don't see how she was a drag on the plot. I think she had about 3 minutes of screen time the entire season.


By "drag on the plot" I mean her mother is dead. They have essentially no resources or supplies they would need to raise a healthy baby like that. As soon as whats-her-name got pregnant, I was like "no way they can raise an infant in this world". It still bugs me, in a "suspension of disbelief" sort of way. I just don't believe a baby would be able to live like that with no formula, proper nutrition, parenting, etc. To me, it's a drag because it's more noise than anything else. It doesn't add anything to the plot -- it just makes it muddy. I sure hope Judith is dead, because I don't want to have to worry about not believe that story line any more. The show isn't going to be around long enough to have her "grow up" in any meaningful way to become an actual member of the community. It's a distraction.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

madscientist said:


> Considering they treated her like infants are always treated in TV shows (they simply pretended she didn't exist most of the time), I don't see how she was a drag on the plot. I think she had about 3 minutes of screen time the entire season. Never happen. I doubt they'd even show that on an HBO original series, much less something like AMC


I recall there were very specific ground rules they had to follow in the pilot episode, where Rick shoots the zombie child at the gas station. Something like not being allowed to show them both on screen at the same time while the gun is firing - there had to be one shot of Rick firing the gun, and a second shot, without Rick or the gun in it, of the zombie girl being hit. So they had to jump through S&P hoops, but they found a way and they were willing to go there. Personally, I think we will never see Judith again - a car seat full of blood telegraphs it pretty well, for me. And the scene with Tyrese running, clutching something to his chest - wasn't that just his weapon?


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

danterner said:


> I recall there were very specific ground rules they had to follow in the pilot episode, where Rick shoots the zombie child at the gas station. Something like not being allowed to show them both on screen at the same time while the gun is firing - there had to be one shot of Rick firing the gun, and a second shot, without Rick or the gun in it, of the zombie girl being hit. So they had to jump through S&P hoops, but they found a way and they were willing to go there.


I specifically remember those rules when Rick shot Zombie Sofia outside the barn on the farm.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

BradJW said:


> I specifically remember those rules when Rick shot Zombie Sofia outside the barn on the farm.


Those are rules related to a gun.

We saw Megan in the same episode who is a child similar in age to Sophia have a zombie come out of the mud take a byte out of her neck. It was fast but I saw blood in the same sequence to spurt.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

DeDondeEs said:


> Great episode. The A-Team weapons syndrome where they fire 100's of rounds at each other with automatic weapons with very few of them hitting the target was a little annoying, especially considering that we've seen most of them take out a walker with a pistol striking the center of the forehead from a pretty good distance...


Then there was also Barnageddon when everybody was shooting walkers in the head while bouncing around in moving vehicles.



madscientist said:


> ... no one (that we saw) gave the coupe de grace to Herschel's head. That means that his head is still lying in the field, zombified and animated. Ugh! Herschel deserves better!


Herschel's head becomes a legless "walker"!



madscientist said:


> ... I'm not saying it's impossible but to me it seems really unlikely. Those were not small adults and Lizzie is not very big. Having her kill them then wrestle those corpses all the way out to the yard and set them on fire just seems unlikely to me.
> 
> Lizzie is definitely not right, and I certainly think she COULD have killed them, but I'm not convinced she did it.


i believe that Lizzie (Borden?) was the killer and Carol was the cleaner who moved and burned the bodies and then took the heat for the crime.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

danterner said:


> And the scene with Tyrese running, clutching something to his chest - wasn't that just his weapon?


That's what it looks like at first glance, but if you really look, you'll see that his weapon is strapped across his back.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

getreal said:


> Herschel's head becomes a legless "walker"!


A roller?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

danielhart said:


> hey i told crow that there was no way the governor could EVER win with the village...lol....


:up:


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

If that was Tyrese I'd think that explosion from the last tank shot would have taken him out.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Hank said:


> By "drag on the plot" I mean [...] It still bugs me, in a "suspension of disbelief" sort of way.


 Got it. Yes, I definitely buy that.



danterner said:


> I recall there were very specific ground rules they had to follow in the pilot episode, where Rick shoots the zombie child at the gas station.


 Yes, but this is an infant! And it would involve biting so no way you could have the infant and the walker in separate shots.



zalusky said:


> We saw Megan in the same episode who is a child similar in age to Sophia have a zombie come out of the mud take a byte out of her neck. It was fast but I saw blood in the same sequence to spurt.


 Sure. Children Sophia's or Megan's age. But Judith is just a few months old (6 months at most). I just can't see anyone even trying to get zombie-eats-infant past S&P, much less succeeding.

FWIW, it looked to me like Megan was bit on the arm side of the shoulder, not the neck. But whatever.



getreal said:


> i believe that Lizzie (Borden?) was the killer and Carol was the cleaner who moved and burned the bodies and then took the heat for the crime.


 OK, I would buy that if that's the way they take it.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

Also, what was the meeting place Daryl was referring to? Assuming most if not all of the original cast knew about it. I can't imagine we'll have that many split groups when it returns, at least not for long.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DUSlider said:


> Also, what was the meeting place Daryl was referring to? Assuming most if not all of the original cast knew about it. I can't imagine we'll have that many split groups when it returns, at least not for long.


Daryl didn't mention a specific place. He just said if things go bad to get everyone on the bus. Hopefully they had a prearranged meeting spot, but if they did, it wasn't mentioned in this episode.


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## DUSlider (Apr 29, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Daryl didn't mention a specific place. He just said if things go bad to get everyone on the bus. Hopefully they had a prearranged meeting spot, but if they did, it wasn't mentioned in this episode.


Just watched again, he told them to go through the admin building through the woods as planned. So I assume they had some type of plan to meet up outside of the prison.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

DUSlider said:


> Just watched again, he told them to go through the admin building through the woods as planned. So I assume they had some type of plan to meet up outside of the prison.


You're right. When I replayed that scene, I started it one sentence too late and missed that line, then only heard him talking about the bus and the provisions they had stored there.

Thought of something that hasn't been mentioned. When Rick is negotiating with the Governor and trying to plead with the rest of his group, why didn't he tell them what the Governor did to his own people after Woodbury? Wasn't there one woman who survived the massacre and she was taken in by Rick's group? So Rick would know that Guv turned on his own people. Seems like bringing that up in this situation might have been useful.


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## markb (Jul 24, 2002)

A crappy end to a crappy (half) season. First we had to suffer through the flu storyline, and then we had to suffer through a rerun of the governor story line. The girl getting bitten was predictable. The writers seem to have become incredibly lazy.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

pmyers said:


> If Carol was covering for that girl, then Carol is an idiot for not saying so. I hope she get's eaten.





DevdogAZ said:


> So Rick would know that Guv turned on his own people. Seems like bringing that up in this situation might have been useful.


Seems like a theme to this show's writing. Almost zero sharing of information.



madscientist said:


> Those were not small adults and Lizzie is not very big. Having her kill them then wrestle those corpses all the way out to the yard and set them on fire just seems unlikely to me.


Not this.



getreal said:


> i believe that Lizzie (Borden?) was the killer and Carol was the cleaner who moved and burned the bodies and then took the heat for the crime.


This.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Hank said:


> It still bugs me, in a "suspension of disbelief" sort of way. I just don't believe a baby would be able to live like that with no formula, proper nutrition, parenting, etc.


In that case we would have become extinct during the stone age.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

Hank said:


> It still bugs me, in a "suspension of disbelief" sort of way. I just don't believe a baby would be able to live like that with no formula, proper nutrition, parenting, etc.


Babies have been surviving without any of these things since forever.
How did we as a species ever survive if they did not? Or was formula and proper nutrition around 200,000 years ago?
If _any_ food is available you chew and spit, and "it takes a village" as regards parenting is as old as time.

There are a lot of things about this show that I do not believe could happen but this is not one.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Plus from time to time they've shown examples of formula runs, community parenting, etc. I'm glad they don't show all of it, since there wouldn't be time for anything else if they did...


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## dthmj (Mar 12, 2002)

DUSlider said:


> Also, what was the meeting place Daryl was referring to? Assuming most if not all of the original cast knew about it. I can't imagine we'll have that many split groups when it returns, at least not for long.





DevdogAZ said:


> Daryl didn't mention a specific place. He just said if things go bad to get everyone on the bus. Hopefully they had a prearranged meeting spot, but if they did, it wasn't mentioned in this episode.


Also, there was a scene with the kids and there was something said along the lines of "we are supposed to get on the bus, that's the plan" - so I think the entire prison community had prepared for disaster and had plans in place in case something happened.

So I feel they will all wind up back together at some point.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

jamesbobo said:


> In that case we would have become extinct during the stone age.





Cearbhaill said:


> Babies have been surviving without any of these things since forever.


Humans, as a species, survived the early "stone age" because of sheer volume. An individual baby in the stone age did NOT have a good chance of survival. But they could always make more. Plus the mothers weren't eaten by zombies either.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> Plus from time to time they've shown examples of formula runs, community parenting, etc. I'm glad they don't show all of it, since there wouldn't be time for anything else if they did...


True. But that's certainly not a sustainable practice. Very risky in fact. I'm pretty sure in the zombie apocalypse I wouldn't be going out on baby food and diaper runs.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

jradosh said:


> Humans, as a species, survived the early "stone age" because of sheer volume. An individual baby in the stone age did NOT have a good chance of survival. But they could always make more. Plus the mothers weren't eaten by zombies either.
> 
> True. But that's certainly not a sustainable practice. Very risky in fact. I'm pretty sure in the zombie apocalypse I wouldn't be going out on baby food and diaper runs.


Also, since "cave man" times, humans have evolved significantly in terms of diet, exercise, habitat, life-span, skin (melanin), disease immunity, etc. I would not expect humans from today to be able to survive "cave man" times as it was.

Also, I'm no expert, but I'm sure baby formula has a pretty short shelf life, and I do know that it needs to be refrigerated once opened and then is only good for 24-48 hours. So how long can they keep up "formula runs" to get expired formula, which would likely be harmful to the baby? I think only an adult or child over 3 or 4 would have the developed digestive system to be able to live on a zombie-apocalypse available diet.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

The baby is probably 6+ months old by now. She doesn't absolutely need formula for too much longer. She should already be eating a significant amount of regular food.

With that said, I think she's dead. They would never show a zombie eating a baby, it's just too tough to see. Heck, I don't want them to show me any more than they already did. 

So how many people are left from the original group. Is it just Rick, Carl, Glenn and Darryl? I guess there's also Carol.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Hank said:


> Also, since "cave man" times, humans have evolved significantly in terms of diet, exercise, habitat, life-span, skin (melanin), disease immunity, etc. I would not expect humans from today to be able to survive "cave man" times as it was.
> 
> Also, I'm no expert, but I'm sure baby formula has a pretty short shelf life, and I do know that it needs to be refrigerated once opened and then is only good for 24-48 hours. So how long can they keep up "formula runs" to get expired formula, which would likely be harmful to the baby? I think only an adult or child over 3 or 4 would have the developed digestive system to be able to live on a zombie-apocalypse available diet.


A lot of "I would not expect" and "I'm no expert" and "I'm sure" and "I think" and "likely to be harmful" in that post.

We get it, you don't like the baby, but saying a baby can't be raised in a make believe zombie apocalypse show is like saying there is no way anyone could be turned into a Zombie in the same show.....

This is actually one of the most believable parts of this completely unrealistic "FICTIONAL" tv show. Let it go.

PS Powdered formula doesn't have to be refrigerated after opening.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I think the baby is dead. Plot simplification for the upcoming road trip.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Fahtrim said:


> This is actually one of the most believable parts of this completely unrealistic "FICTIONAL" tv show.


Really? "Most believable"? Wow.


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## wombat94 (Nov 18, 2007)

Hank said:


> Also, I'm no expert, but I'm sure baby formula has a pretty short shelf life, and I do know that it needs to be refrigerated once opened and then is only good for 24-48 hours. So how long can they keep up "formula runs" to get expired formula, which would likely be harmful to the baby? I think only an adult or child over 3 or 4 would have the developed digestive system to be able to live on a zombie-apocalypse available diet.


Powdered formula has a shelf life of many months - I haven't checked recently since our kids are 9 and 12 years old, but my recollection is that the Use By date is typically at least 12 months from the data of manufacture.

Powdered formula is supposed to be good for at least one month from the date the container is opened.

These guidelines are also designed primarily to be sure to deliver optimal nutrition to the child... so using the formula for several months after that is not likely to endanger the child, though she might not get the best nutrition - it is certainly better than starving in a Zombie apocalypse with no lactating mother around for her to breastfeed from.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

jamesbobo said:


> In that case we would have become extinct during the stone age.


Huh? Did newborn babies regularly survive to self-sufficiency when their mothers died shortly after birth, during the stone age?


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

john4200 said:


> Huh? Did newborn babies regularly survive to self-sufficiency when their mothers died shortly after birth, during the stone age?


That's what I was thinking. Without a wet nurse, a newborn without a mother would have been doomed in prehistoric times.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Any creationist will inform you that there was no stone age or cavemen. And there was no 200,000 years ago. 

We're starting to think this through a bit too much. In their world, there also have been no zombie fiction (books or movies). And rotting corpses are great (and weightless) bulletproof shields.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jradosh said:


> Seems like a theme to this show's writing. Almost zero sharing of information.


That's just a standard TV/movie writer practice to increase dramatic tension. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. But when Rick is desperately pleading with the Governor in an effort to save the lives of Herschel and Michonne, and then resorts to trying to convince the others with the Governor that backing him isn't the only way to survive, it makes zero sense that he wouldn't use this very important piece of information in his effort to save Herschel and Michonne. How many of those people are going to continue following him if they find out he gunned down 20+ of his own people once they became a liability to him?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> How many of those people are going to continue following him if they find out he gunned down 20+ of his own people once they became a liability to him?


On the other hand, that's the kind of tactic that could backfire pretty terribly. They obviously trust the Guv enough to pick up guns and follow him into battle against the Evil Rick. So if the Evil Rick starts saying mean things about the Guv, are they going to admit they made a terrible mistake and believe the monster they've come to drive out? Or are they going to assume they were right all along and believe their leader?

I'd _like _to believe that some of the torment Rick was going through in that scene was the realization that the truth was not going to work for him. That would make me kind of a moron, which is why I _don't_ believe it. But I'd _like _to believe it.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

That guy driving the tank might have been the worst character in history. Those lines were just horrible!


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

NYHeel said:


> So how many people are left from the original group. Is it just Rick, Carl, Glenn and Darryl? I guess there's also Carol.


Technically, Rick wasn't part of the original group - he found them later.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

danterner said:


> Technically, Rick wasn't part of the original group - he found them later.


Rick is the original group


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## Dnamertz (Jan 30, 2005)

It was ironic that Tyrese was saved because of Carol's actions. Carol was teaching the little kids to fight, and by doing that they ended up saving Tyreses.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> Rick is the original group


<Bill Clinton>Depends on how you define "original".</Bill Clinton>

IIRC, Rick was a loner, by himself, when he found the "original group" of Glenn, T-Dog, Mirryyl, Andrea, et. al. He joined that group.

ETA: Oh yeah, also his wife and kid were part of that original group with Shane.


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Thought of something that hasn't been mentioned. When Rick is negotiating with the Governor and trying to plead with the rest of his group, why didn't he tell them what the Governor did to his own people after Woodbury? Wasn't there one woman who survived the massacre and she was taken in by Rick's group? So Rick would know that Guv turned on his own people. Seems like bringing that up in this situation might have been useful.


This. Although Karen (the only survivor of the Governor massacre) was dead, surely the rest of the Woodbury gang would know of his actions and could vouch for Rick's hospitality. Also, you'd think Martinez would have told the other camp about the Governor, and even though he didn't blow "Brian Heriot's" cover the camp could have figured it out if just one person said "that's the Governor of Woodbury."

However, the attack had to happen so that the story would move along to where Kirkman wanted it to go.


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## robojerk (Jun 13, 2006)

Why would the member's of the Gov's group believe Rick about what happened at Woodbury? Unless Martinez told his group about someone named "The Governor" who went crazy and killed his own people, Rick's comments would sound like a desperate lie.

I think this episode probably looked on paper, but it felt sloppy to watch.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

robojerk said:


> Why would the member's of the Gov's group believe Rick about what happened at Woodbury? Unless Martinez told his group about someone named "The Governor" who went crazy and killed his own people, Rick's comments would sound like a desperate lie...


This...they were blindly believing and following the guv...why would they suddenly change their minds based on one person's statement?


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

getreal said:


> i believe that Lizzie (Borden?) was the killer and Carol was the cleaner who moved and burned the bodies and then took the heat for the crime.


I believe this also. 


Dnamertz said:


> It was ironic that Tyrese was saved because of Carol's actions. Carol was teaching the little kids to fight, and by doing that they ended up saving Tyreses.


It is why he, the little psycho, and Carol can reconcile, IMO. 


Cearbhaill said:


> Babies have been surviving without any of these things since forever.


So true. I had to explain something similar in regards to not buying "dog food". There was a time before the Gerber baby and Ralston-Purina.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> This...they were blindly believing and following the guv...why would they suddenly change their minds based on one person's statement?


If they are following a guy they met yesterday into war, they weren't the brightest group anyway. As someone else said, you'd expect survivors at this point to be the fittest. They seemed to be idiots who were due some bad luck.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hank said:


> <Bill Clinton>Depends on how you define "original".</Bill Clinton>
> 
> IIRC, Rick was a loner, by himself, when he found the "original group" of Glenn, T-Dog, Mirryyl, Andrea, et. al. He joined that group.
> 
> ETA: Oh yeah, also his wife and kid were part of that original group with Shane.


As long as people want to be pedantic about "group" and "original"
"Original group" implies they were the first group but they weren't. Rick, Morgan, and Duane were a group before Rick met up with anyone in Atlanta.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> This...they were blindly believing and following the guv...why would they suddenly change their minds based on one person's statement?


Well, the left their safe camp and followed the gov based on that one person's statement. In other words, they're a pretty spineless group in the first place.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

robojerk said:


> Why would the member's of the Gov's group believe Rick about what happened at Woodbury? Unless Martinez told his group about someone named "The Governor" who went crazy and killed his own people, Rick's comments would sound like a desperate lie.
> 
> I think this episode probably looked on paper, but it felt sloppy to watch.





Bierboy said:


> This...they were blindly believing and following the guv...why would they suddenly change their minds based on one person's statement?


I'm not necessarily expecting that these people would believe Rick. I agree with MacThor who said the attack had to happen to move the story along. I'm simply pointing out that if Rick were desperate to save Herschel's life and avoid an attack on the prison which would undoubtedly lead to unnecessary loss of life, why wouldn't he at least use the best piece of information he had at his disposal?


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## T-Wolves (Aug 22, 2000)

The Governor's dead and everybody is abandoning the prison. I wasn't real happy with the first 8 episodes, but I'm excited to see where they go next. Now we just have to wait 2 months...


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

jradosh said:


> We know that now because of that rat sculpture (or whatever that was... a cat maybe?)


 I think it was a frog, with the skin all pinned-out like a dissection.



madscientist said:


> I was thinking about this this morning: no one (that we saw) gave the coupe de grace to Herschel's head. That means that his head is still lying in the field, zombified and animated. Ugh! Herschel deserves better!


I like to think Michone took care of that.



Beryl said:


> So true. I had to explain something similar in regards to not buying "dog food". There was a time before the Gerber baby and Ralston-Purina.


Speaking of dogs, shouldn't they be more of an issue in this world? Packs of wild/feral dogs? Where did all the dogs go?



heySkippy said:


> That just made it worse. The walker-shield was WAY more bullet proof than it had any right to be ...


 And all he did with it was get 6 feet closer and lob a grenade_ that he could have thrown from his earlier cover_.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

heySkippy said:


> That just made it worse. The walker-shield was WAY more bullet proof than it had any right to be and tossing a grenade down the barrel of a tank wouldn't hurt the people inside unless you did it right at the exact moment when the breach was open to reload.


I'll retract my criticism of the grenade down the tank barrel. I was watching youtube videos of tank reloading and they were leaving the breach open for 5+ seconds every time, sometimes much longer. Much longer than I would have guessed and plenty of time to get lucky with a grenade.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

tlc said:


> Speaking of dogs, shouldn't they be more of an issue in this world? Packs of wild/feral dogs? Where did all the dogs go?


Perhaps they make tasty walker food?


tlc said:


> And all he did with it was get 6 feet closer and lob a grenade_ that he could have thrown from his earlier cover_.


I know Daryl is a great fighter, but I don't know if he could toss a grenade down the barrel of a tank from too much of a distance. Doing what he did maximized the effectiveness of the grenade, versus bouncing it off of the exterior by just lobbing it at the tank.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JLucPicard said:


> I know Daryl is a great fighter, but I don't know if he could toss a grenade down the barrel of a tank from too much of a distance. Doing what he did maximized the effectiveness of the grenade, versus bouncing it off of the exterior by just lobbing it at the tank.


Different grenade. The one he threw from behind the zombie shield was at a group of Guvernites. Who weren't very far away to begin with.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I tend to think that Judith is dead and they just didn't show it for obvious reasons. OTOH, if it was not shown, it can always come back!

The irony of it all is that Judith would have 100% survived had Rick not banished Carol!

oh...and to Hank: there are places in this world that are outside of the U.S.! Children live in horrible conditions now...mortality rates are high, but they do survive. Your argument is ridiculous.

Sigh...and I know that by posting this, I opened up a can woop-ass on myself from Hank. I just couldn't help myself. Sorry everyone!


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that Judith is still alive.

My theory is that the kids will run into Carol, who will keep them alive and protect them. Then, when they meet up with the rest, Rick will have no choice but to let her back into the group.

I guess we have time to speculate before we actually find out!


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Anubys said:


> oh...and to Hank: there are places in this world that are outside of the U.S.! Children live in horrible conditions now...mortality rates are high, but they do survive. Your argument is ridiculous.
> 
> Sigh...and I know that by posting this, I opened up a can woop-ass on myself from Hank. I just couldn't help myself. Sorry everyone!


No, not at all.. I'm willing to accept that reality... it's just that I think the entire "Judith" sub plot is a colossal waste of time and a plot distraction. There are so many other better things they could do instead. I really hope she's dead because I don't want to think about it any more.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

jradosh said:


> Humans, as a species, survived the early "stone age" because of sheer volume. An individual baby in the stone age did NOT have a good chance of survival. But they could always make more. Plus the mothers weren't eaten by zombies either.





Anubys said:


> oh...and to Hank: there are places in this world that are outside of the U.S.! Children live in horrible conditions now...mortality rates are high, but they do survive. Your argument is ridiculous.


Since Hank and I basically agreed, [Jules]allow me to retort[/Jules]...

As I stated... species survive but individuals frequently do not. Think about what you just posted ("mortality rates are high, but they do survive"). That's essentially saying the same thing; lots of people (babies included) die but because there are enough of them the species manages to push forward. But the same can't be said about such a small group. Unless they go on a baby-making spree to bump up the numbers, the odds aren't in their favor for survival.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> I tend to think that Judith is dead and they just didn't show it for obvious reasons. OTOH, if it was not shown, it can always come back!


I regret to inform you that you are wrong. 

Not that I don't wish you were right, but let's face it...on this show, dead is barely dead to begin with. If they really intend for somebody to be dead, they would show more than an empty car-seat with blood in it. All they're doing is setting up a "mystery" as to what happened. Which will be resolved when Judith shows up again. In the meantime, Andrew Lincoln gets to have his Emmy-consideration scenes emoting over his missing baby.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that Judith is still alive.
> 
> My theory is that the kids will run into Carol, who will keep them alive and protect them. Then, when they meet up with the rest, Rick will have no choice but to let her back into the group.


I can go along with this theory. And the irony would be that Tyreese will be in that group - you know the one guy that Rick wanted to keep away from Carol!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

jradosh said:


> Since Hank and I basically agreed, [Jules]allow me to retort[/Jules]...
> 
> As I stated... species survive but individuals frequently do not. Think about what you just posted ("mortality rates are high, but they do survive"). That's essentially saying the same thing; lots of people (babies included) die but because there are enough of them the species manages to push forward. But the same can't be said about such a small group. Unless they go on a baby-making spree to bump up the numbers, the odds aren't in their favor for survival.


I will retort your retort!

I may have misunderstood Hank's original intent. The way I read his post (and it's too far back and I'm too lazy to go and check) is that there was no way a child/infant can survive in this world. My (and others) contention is that children can survive (and have for thousands of years) in worse conditions (minus the flesh eating zombies, this world is a ton better than many places in the world today, not to mention even 1,000 years ago).



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I regret to inform you that you are wrong.
> 
> Not that I don't wish you were right, but let's face it...on this show, dead is barely dead to begin with. If they really intend for somebody to be dead, they would show more than an empty car-seat with blood in it. All they're doing is setting up a "mystery" as to what happened. Which will be resolved when Judith shows up again. In the meantime, Andrew Lincoln gets to have his Emmy-consideration scenes emoting over his missing baby.


I cannot be wrong! I spoke with both sides of my mouth. I said I think she's dead but that she could come back. All bases are covered!

All your base are belong to us.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

And what's with all the British actors and their "real life" accents on this show? Is anyone actually American???



Rick, The Gov, and now I hear that Maggie also has an English accent. How do they do play an American accent so well and consistently? I know, I know...


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

Anubys said:


> is that there was no way a child/infant can survive in this world. My (and others)


I don't think I said "no way a child can survive".. it was more like "my suspension of disbelief doesn't work with the baby on this show"... and it annoyed me.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

TonyTheTiger said:


> My theory is that the kids will run into Carol, who will keep them alive and protect them. Then, when they meet up with the rest, Rick will have no choice but to let her back into the group.


I think they will run into Carol but not before the hilarity of Tyrese being in charge of a group of children (including Judith) is milked to the max.

And as Lizzie has shown herself to be quite matter of fact and forthright I almost expect that she confesses to killing Karen right to his face at some point. Even he knows that he can't retaliate against a child, so he has to stew in his own juices and come to grips with things before they run into Carol.

In this scenario I think Darryl's has to find them fairly quickly if only to give us a way to believe that the children could be adequately fed- I don't see Tyrese having much luck shooting squirrels. Then Darryl/Carol conversations sort out her motives in the coverup.

Then when someone else finds them (Rick) he/they can be amazed that Tyrese and Carol/Darryl and the group of kids have it all sorted out and that all his worry about Tyrese killing Carol (and her killing Karen) was false worry and that the entire situation has resolved... aside from Lizzie's creepiness in killing sick folks.

And they yay he sees Judith.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Hank said:


> Rick, The Gov, and now I hear that Maggie also has an English accent. How do they do play an American accent so well and consistently? I know, I know...


Well, Maggie's an American who moved to England as a teenager. So she has an excuse for being awesome.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Anubys said:


> All your base are belong to us.


some one set us up the bom

(And yes, you have stated what I was saying as well. The baby living is still about the most believable thing in this show )


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I fully predict that they have a preplanned bugout location based on their actions in this episode. It wouldn't make sense if they don't being that they already had a plan on how to evacaute quickly....this next logical step is WHERE to go to.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

Hank said:


> Rick, The Gov, and now I hear that Maggie also has an English accent. How do they do play an American accent so well and consistently? I know, I know...


It's been my observation, over the years, that British (and Australian) actors are much better at doing American accents than American actors are at doing British accents. I find it fascinating, actually.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Hank said:


> *I don't think I said "no way a child can survive"*.. it was more like "my suspension of disbelief doesn't work with the baby on this show"... and it annoyed me.





Hank said:


> They have essentially no resources or supplies they would need to raise a healthy baby like that. As soon as whats-her-name got pregnant, I was like "*no way they can raise an infant in this world*". It still bugs me, in a "suspension of disbelief" sort of way. *I just don't believe a baby would be able to live like that* with no formula, proper nutrition, parenting, etc.


As others have stated, babies have been surviving and growing up in squalor conditions for as long as people have been around. There is no reason to suspend your beliefs for something that is not only not impossible, but very common.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

sharkster said:


> It's been my observation, over the years, that British (and Australian) actors are much better at doing American accents than American actors are at doing British accents. I find it fascinating, actually.


there's a simple explanation: Hollywood. Everyone watched the American movies and therefore had much more practice at the accent than vice versa.

It's the same way in the Middle East. Everyone can speak "Egyptian Arabic" because that's where all the movies were made for decades.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Plus for all we know there are only 75 actors in England who can do decent American accents, and they're all currently starring on American television. 

To be slightly more serious, there _is _a selection bias at play here. If you watch British TV, it's not unusual to hear American accents ranging from shaky to atrocious. Obviously, the ones who are going to get American roles on American TV are the ones who can do good accents.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Hank said:


> And what's with all the British actors and their "real life" accents on this show? Is anyone actually American???
> 
> 
> 
> Rick, The Gov, and now I hear that Maggie also has an English accent. How do they do play an American accent so well and consistently? I know, I know...


Lennie James (Morgan) is also British.

Michael Caine said in an interview many years ago that it is much easier for a British actor to southern American accents. There is a YouTube video that explains how southern accents are just elongated British accents.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

I've heard that the modern Appalachian accent is the closest that exists today to genuine Shakespearean English.

Which is almost too perfect to be true.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Anubys said:


> ... Sigh...and I know that by posting this, I opened up a can woop-ass on myself from Hank. I just couldn't help myself. Sorry everyone!


God be with you, my friend.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

I certainly know that many people were surprised that Idris Elba (The Wire/Luther) and Hugh Laurie (House) we both Brits!

I also know that Mel Gibson had to 'dub' the original Mad Max film from Australian to American before it was released here!


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, Maggie's an American who moved to England as a teenager. So she has an excuse for being awesome.


So she moved to England like 10 years ago--and has been in America doing TV part of that time--and she picked up a British accent? That makes me wonder which one is fake.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

TonyTheTiger said:


> I certainly know that many people were surprised that Idris Elba (The Wire/Luther) and Hugh Laurie (House) we both Brits!
> 
> *I also know* that Mel Gibson had to 'dub' the original Mad Max film from Australian to American before it was released here!


Mel Gibson did nothing for the American release.
Americans did the voice dubbing.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Plus for all we know there are only 75 actors in England who can do decent American accents, and they're all currently starring on American television.  To be slightly more serious, there is a selection bias at play here. If you watch British TV, it's not unusual to hear American accents ranging from shaky to atrocious. Obviously, the ones who are going to get American roles on American TV are the ones who can do good accents.


David Tennant's American accent on the failed pilot for the US show "Rex is Not Your Lawyer" isn't particularly good, though I can't quite tell if it's just that I'm used to hearing him speak with an English accent (on Doctor Who) or with his actual Scottish brogue (elsewhere). Something about his American-English attempt just seems off:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

stellie93 said:


> So she moved to England like 10 years ago--and has been in America doing TV part of that time--and she picked up a British accent? That makes me wonder which one is fake.


I suspect any teenager in a strange land is going to fit in as best he/she can...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

stellie93 said:


> So she moved to England like 10 years ago--and has been in America doing TV part of that time--and she picked up a British accent? That makes me wonder which one is fake.


Her mother is a Brit, so she's probably been hearing that accent her entire life and maybe even had some of it before moving to England.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

My brother-in-law lived his whole life in FL, but moved to NC a few years ago. He now has a pronounced southern accent. It's not an affectation - he legitimately just absorbed the accent. He has to make a conscious effort not to drawl now. I think some people just acclimatize to where they are more than others. And a lot has to do with acceptance, as Rob said - my wife lost her Minnesotan accent very quickly when she moved to NJ as a child (because the school kids teased her about it dontcha know).


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

danterner said:


> And a lot has to do with acceptance, as Rob said - my wife lost her Minnesotan accent very quickly when she moved to NJ as a child (because the school kids teased her about it dontcha know).


Heh...that reminds me of the time I spent a summer in New York City as a child (10? 11?). The first day, all the neighborhood kids gathered around my brother and me.

KIDS: Say Wah-tuh! Say Wah-tuh!

US: Water.

KIDS: [gales of laughter]


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

danterner said:


> My brother-in-law lived his whole life in FL, but moved to NC a few years ago. He now has a pronounced southern accent. It's not an affectation - he legitimately just absorbed the accent. He has to make a conscious effort not to drawl now. I think some people just acclimatize to where they are more than others. And a lot has to do with acceptance, as Rob said - my wife lost her Minnesotan accent very quickly when she moved to NJ as a child (because the school kids teased her about it dontcha know).


Unless you're from Boston. I've been living in New Jersey for 25 years and still have my Boston accent.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

brianric said:


> Unless you're from Boston. I've been living in New Jersey for 25 years and still have my Boston accent.


"They" say that psychology is a key element of accents. Some people lose them/change them naturally, and others never do. I suppose part of it is just how much of your identity is wrapped up in where you've been versus where you are.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I don't think anyone from Rhode Island ever loses their accent. My wife and her entire family, most of whom have been in Michigan or Florida for decades++ still sound like they just arrived.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> "They" say that psychology is a key element of accents. Some people lose them/change them naturally, and others never do. I suppose part of it is just how much of your identity is wrapped up in where you've been versus where you are.


I have to agree with you there. I've been actively involved with the Jimmy Fund, a Boston charity, for over 25 years. I usually wear my Boston Red Sox clothing, owining over 25 different Red Sox ball caps. I may live in New Jerset but my heart and soul belongs to Massachusetts.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

Is it okay to talk about The Walking Dead in this thread? 

My prediction is that Rick's baby girl, having been conceived and born during this Walker World, will be immune from the walker virus and when she reappears as a toddler (skipping ahead in timeline during the break in the season), her blood will be used as an antidote to the virus and ultimately save the human race.

Or not ...


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

getreal said:


> Is it okay to talk about The Walking Dead in this thread?
> 
> My prediction is that Rick's baby girl, having been conceived and born during this Walker World, will be immune from the walker virus and when she reappears as a toddler (skipping ahead in timeline during the break in the season), her blood will be used as an antidote to the virus and ultimately save the human race.
> 
> Or not ...


But what accent will she have? 

Seriously... I like your story line. Only thing is how will they know she's immune? They'd need to have another post-apocalypse baby die and not turn.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

jradosh said:


> But what accent will she have?  Seriously... I like your story line. Only thing is how will they know she's immune? They'd need to have another post-apocalypse baby die and not turn.


Maybe one that gets partially eaten by walkers on screen!


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

danterner said:


> Maybe one that gets partially eaten by walkers on screen!


unfortunately, they usually don't wait for you to die to stab you (or shoot you) in the head once you're bitten!


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

heySkippy said:


> I don't think anyone from Rhode Island ever loses their accent. My wife and her entire family, most of whom have been in Michigan or Florida for decades++ still sound like they just arrived.


I grew up on the RI border and probably have the same accent. I still live here, but make a conscious effort to keep it somewhat under control. Some of the ways we pronounce things can make us sound kinda dumb at times.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

I have a very pronounced Appalachian (or should I say "Shakespearean English"?  ) accent when around my mother, but lived in South Florida for three decades so employ quite a mixed repertoire of words. Usually I speak a sort of Southern Yiddish sprinkled liberally with Portuguese, Cuban Spanish, and Haitian.

Hub, the one with the great facility for imitating voices, has hung onto his NYC accent through it all though, and refuses to be assimilated into Southern-speak. We're an amusing household linguistically.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

getreal said:


> Is it okay to talk about The Walking Dead in this thread?
> 
> My prediction is that Rick's baby girl, having been conceived and born during this Walker World, will be immune from the walker virus and when she reappears as a toddler (skipping ahead in timeline during the break in the season), her blood will be used as an antidote to the virus and ultimately save the human race.
> 
> Or not ...


Interesting idea. I like it.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

pmyers said:


> Interesting idea. I like it.


Or not...


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

What accent will Lil @$$kicker end up with? I'm thinking deep south belle!


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Or not...


I don't undertand your post.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I don't undertand your post.


Look at the last line of the post you quoted!

Perhaps you didn't see it first time round?


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I don't undertand your post.


He doesn't like the lil a$$kicker cures the world idea, pretty simple to see


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

No, he was just making a joke based on the "Or not..." at the end of the "Lil Asskicker saves the world" post.


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

I think it very likely she will be immune- they have to save humanity somehow.
Antidote/vaccine I'm not so sure.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

wow...real friendly today...."or not".


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## Cearbhaill (Aug 1, 2004)

I swear- every board I have visited today has been full of crankypants.
Must be the holidays.


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## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

I have a Boston accent. I used to try to control. I never did a very good job. I just accept it now.


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## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jradosh said:


> But what accent will she have?
> 
> Seriously... I like your story line. Only thing is how will they know she's immune? They'd need to have another post-apocalypse baby die and not turn.





danterner said:


> Maybe one that gets partially eaten by walkers on screen!





Anubys said:


> unfortunately, they usually don't wait for you to die to stab you (or shoot you) in the head once you're bitten!


I can imagine that she gets bit and just heals with no negative consequences. That way they know that something is different about her. Because she was born into this virus-infected world, her pure immune system is able to develop antibodies from exposure to the virus, and justifies her entire storyline.


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## Hank (May 31, 2000)

getreal said:


> . Because she was born into this virus-infected world, her pure immune system is able to develop antibodies from exposure to the virus, and justifies her entire storyline.


If that's where they're going with it, I'm OK with that.

Otherwise, she's just dead weight.


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Cearbhaill said:


> I think it very likely she will be immune- they have to save humanity somehow. Antidote/vaccine I'm not so sure.


Maybe they can find and save a cheerleader.


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## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

Hank said:


> Otherwise, she's just dead weight.


You should just make that your sig so you don't have to type it out in every post.


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

My eyes almost rolled right out of my head when Darryl was using the filing cabinet to block incoming fire, then he made it even worse with the zombie!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

[media]https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1488248_585530034835589_1099360226_n.jpg[/media]


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

zordude said:


> My eyes almost rolled right out of my head when Darryl was using the filing cabinet to block incoming fire, then he made it even worse with the zombie!


You knew that Daryl >>>> Tank all day!


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

[media]https://static.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/51ce6099e4b0d911b4489b79/51ce61e3e4b0d911b44a49da/1364923423353/1000w/WalkingDeadMemes_11.jpg[/media]

https://static.squarespace.com/stat...f/1364923646827/1000w/WalkingDeadMemes_16.png


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## LaurenLMHC (Aug 28, 2013)

Bierboy said:


> Your points are well taken...I guess my tendency to agree with him was based more on my wish that she were gone...


Well, thanks to your response, I pretty much figured out what happened. Please be careful!


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

LaurenLMHC said:


> Well, thanks to your response, I pretty much figured out what happened. Please be careful!


About what?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> About what?


Yeah....what?


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## LaurenLMHC (Aug 28, 2013)

Bierboy said:


> Yeah....what?


I thought you might have spoiled what happened to Judith, based on your comment. But it's ok, Nevermind


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

LaurenLMHC said:


> I thought you might have spoiled what happened to Judith, based on your comment. But it's ok, Nevermind


Ha...yeah...how would I know what happened?  I'm just wishing she is gone...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

getreal said:


> (...) her blood will be used as an antidote to the virus and ultimately save the human race.


I don't think the human race's problem is that when you die you turn into a zombie---it's all the zombies currently running around (too many to be realistic, if you ask me).

After all, back in season one everyone thought that you needed to be bitten to turn, yet civilization still managed to crumble (for some reason).

Now if the baby's blood could be turned into an spray weapon that would permanently kill all nearby zombies...that would be a different story...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Amnesia said:


> I don't think the human race's problem is that when you die you turn into a zombie---it's all the zombies currently running around (too many to be realistic, if you ask me).
> 
> After all, back in season one everyone thought that you needed to be bitten to turn, yet civilization still managed to crumble (for some reason).
> 
> Now if the baby's blood could be turned into an spray weapon that would permanently kill all nearby zombies...that would be a different story...


Disagree. There are approx. 10 million people in Georgia. If 95% of the population died in that initial outbreak, then there should be about 9.5 million zombies roaming around. Even if the survivors have given headshots to a couple million, that's still 7+ million roaming around. Frankly, I think the number of zombies they've shown seems too low. Especially if the zombies tend to gather and congregate. I'd expect more massive herds like the one we saw earlier this season.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DevdogAZ said:


> Disagree. There are approx. 10 million people in Georgia. If 95% of the population died in that initial outbreak, then there should be about 9.5 million zombies roaming around. Even if the survivors have given headshots to a couple million, that's still 7+ million roaming around. Frankly, I think the number of zombies they've shown seems too low. Especially if the zombies tend to gather and congregate. I'd expect more massive herds like the one we saw earlier this season.


Well, there is the rotting issue. But that has never made sense on this show.

We know that the zombie virus does not prevent flesh and muscles from rotting, because almost all of the zombies we see are clearly rotting. Since zombies seem to reanimate within minutes or hours of death, most of them probably were not rotting before they became zombies. And if the vast majority of the zombies were created in the first few weeks of the outbreak, I would expect most of the zombies to have rotted so much that they are no longer able to walk.

And yet we have so many walkers still on their feet.

I suppose we could rationalize it and say that the zombie virus allows flesh to rot but muscles and tendons are prevented from rotting, except possibly on the surface. But that would be a lame explanation for the walkers not being....uhhhhhhhh....lame.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Also the 10 million people aren't uniformly distributed. I could sort of understand the hordes of zombies in the city, but how many zombies have attacked the prison? It just seems like too many.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

john4200 said:


> Well, there is the rotting issue. But that has never made sense on this show. We know that the zombie virus does not prevent flesh and muscles from rotting, because almost all of the zombies we see are clearly rotting. Since zombies seem to reanimate within minutes or hours of death, most of them probably were not rotting before they became zombies. And if the vast majority of the zombies were created in the first few weeks of the outbreak, I would expect most of the zombies to have rotted so much that they are no longer able to walk. And yet we have so many walkers still on their feet. I suppose we could rationalize it and say that the zombie virus allows flesh to rot but muscles and tendons are prevented from rotting, except possibly on the surface. But that would be a lame explanation for the walkers not being....uhhhhhhhh....lame.


Remember earlier in the show where it was discussed that the zombies do starve, but at a much slower pace than living people? It was during a discussion about the jawless/armless guard zombies. Anyway, maybe they rot at a much slower rate as well?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I really really thought (and hoped) that the Guv would become Michonne's new BFFWA (Best Friend Forever Without Arms).


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

john4200 said:


> Well, there is the rotting issue. But that has never made sense on this show.
> 
> We know that the zombie virus does not prevent flesh and muscles from rotting, because almost all of the zombies we see are clearly rotting. Since zombies seem to reanimate within minutes or hours of death, most of them probably were not rotting before they became zombies. And if the vast majority of the zombies were created in the first few weeks of the outbreak, I would expect most of the zombies to have rotted so much that they are no longer able to walk.
> 
> ...


So you could just hole up somewhere and wait till they all rotted away?


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

constantly cracks me up, the amount of "reasoning" and "rational" thought people put into arguments about how the zombies can be more or less realistic...............

rotting/not rotting.....bitten/died and rezzed......society collapsed or not............

people, it's a show about Zombies, enjoy the escapism b/c it's all stupid....supposed to be fun


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

Fahtrim said:


> constantly cracks me up, the amount of "reasoning" and "rational" thought people put into arguments about how the zombies can be more or less realistic............... rotting/not rotting.....bitten/died and rezzed......society collapsed or not............ people, it's a show about Zombies, enjoy the escapism b/c it's all stupid....supposed to be fun


You'll never be a survivor of the upcoming zombie apocalypse with that type of attitude.


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## Bryanmc (Sep 5, 2000)

betts4 said:


> So you could just hole up somewhere and wait till they all rotted away?


Maybe if the only infection method was biting, but since everyone that dies turns, you'll always have a fresh supply until you eliminate the disease.


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## jradosh (Jul 31, 2001)

Fahtrim said:


> constantly cracks me up, the amount of "reasoning" and "rational" thought people put into arguments about how the zombies can be more or less realistic...............


Imagine the fun if you gave the zombies a time machine and asked where they'd likely go...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Bryanmc said:


> Maybe if the only infection method was biting, but since everyone that dies turns, you'll always have a fresh supply until you eliminate the disease.


Yes, but if the initial outbreak took out 90+% of the population, as it appears to have done, and then after a year or two, the zombies rot away and are no longer mobile, then holing up for two years would be a smart idea, because the number of zombies left after two years would be a tiny percentage of the number prior to that.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Fahtrim said:


> constantly cracks me up, the amount of "reasoning" and "rational" thought people put into arguments about how the zombies can be more or less realistic...............
> 
> rotting/not rotting.....bitten/died and rezzed......society collapsed or not............
> 
> people, it's a show about Zombies, enjoy the escapism b/c it's all stupid....supposed to be fun


Welcome to TCF. Are you new here? 

Any subject brought up on TCF is completely and thoroughly dissected and (over) analyzed to the nth degree, but it's one of the many charms of the place.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

danterner said:


> You'll never be a survivor of the upcoming zombie apocalypse with that type of attitude.


 This....


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

Jstkiddn said:


> Welcome to TCF. Are you new here?
> 
> Any subject brought up on TCF is completely and thoroughly dissected and (over) analyzed to the nth degree, but it's one of the many charms of the place.


I kno rite!! Why you think I keep coming back to this insanity!


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## timr_42 (Oct 14, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> Now if the baby's blood could be turned into an spray weapon that would permanently kill all nearby zombies...that would be a different story...


Baby-gun!!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I just finished watching the last four episodes. I took a two month break from this show because I wanted to strangle my tv when the Governor reappeared on the screen. That was one tv villain I never wanted to see again. Anyway, it was nice to see his entry for the 2013 Worst Military Commander Since George Armstrong Custer Award. Dude, you had a tank and the numbers and you still got yourself killed along with everybody else on your side and your new "home" overrun by zombies.


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## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> Dude, you had a tank and the numbers and you still got yourself killed along with everybody else on your side and your new "home" overrun by zombies.


I think at the end he had a death wish. Rick gave him the option of coexisting peacefully and he chose to wreck it all instead. He was a character with too many personal demons.

I really liked the governor... My favorite character in the series. His time was clearly up though,


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