# A Review of the R10



## ebonovic

Thank you to Robert at Value Electronics (OnLine Store Link)

Robert and I had hoped this would be the world premier of the R10 when we first got in contact with one another. Alas, it looks as others where able to obtain them earlier then expected None the less Thank you Robert for this opportunity.

This is my 4th dealing with Value Electronics, and ALL of them have been terrific.
If you are looking for a R10, or an HD-Tivo This is the place to go.

My quick impression: Dont go running out to buy one to replace your Series 2 system just yet. Series 1 Sure, it would be a good upgrade over a Series 1, not a Series 2. And if you just getting into the DirecTivo game This is a good unit to consider, but dont lose any sleep over getting a Series 2 unit. (Yes I have owned a Series 1 in the past).

Now for the review.

I will add to this review, as time goes on... Shortcuts that work and don't work, and other resources.. But I wanted to get this up tonight, as promised.

Edit:
General Facts about the R10 unit:
Any comparison is against a standard Series 2 DirecTivo (HDVR2/DSR704)
(unless otherwise stated)

CPU: A newer CPU that has a 50% faster clock rate. But it has smaller on-chip cache and no floating point unit. This will result in some of speed performance, but on some more intensive workloads could actually be slower.

Memory: Same amount as Sereis 2a and 2b SD units. 64mb. This has been show at DDB with the results comming from the meminfo. However, it is now using DDR which has a higher bandwith. Basically a bigger pipeline for the unit to work with.

Thank you to Dan Colins and DBS Forums for hosting the images and video files.


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## ebonovic

The R10 arrived in a standard DirecTV DVR box. 
Just like the HR10-250.. It was primarily a white box, with Orange Letter.
So with the R10 box on top of my HR10-250 box Nice Orange and Blue.
(Just like the Illini ILL )









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After opening the box, nothing was out of the ordinary. Standard cable pack and peanut remote. Previous reports that we where going to see the new DirecTV remote here, but we got the Peanut IMHO a better choice.









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However, the first sign of cost cutting was apparent. The batteries that where included are ultra generic GreenCell batteries. These are not even the knock offs that try to look like one of the name brands. You probably could have a package of 20 of them, and still weigh less then 1 single Duracell AA battery.


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## ebonovic

Well here it is The R10:








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Zoom in on Center/Right Panel:  Small Image
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Zoom in on Left Access Door:  Small Image
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When removing the unit from the box You can feel how different it is made from the DSR-704. It feels more flimsy and of lower quality. The metallic face does shine, but seems to attract fingerprints.

The access door was the first real sign of a change. First getting it open was a challenge. The door was stuck seriously. I had to use a small razor blade to pry it open. (Each time, it wasnt a one time thing). There is no push release type mechanism, just a door with a clasp.









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The Back Panel









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Zoom in on Power and Fan
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Zoom in on Sat Inputs:
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Zoom in on Outputs and USB  Small Image
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As you can see the layout has changed, but there have been no additions or subtractions from the Series 2 units. The addition of the third prong is interesting, as it adds a ground to the unit. As you will see on the inside photos, the third prong connect directly to the metal case.

Edit: Check that, It has been pointed out that the IR blaster port has been removed.

There are now 5 #10 screws hold the case down. But they are different, and shows another source of cost cutting.








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They are black sheet metal screws (with a pointy tip), vs the normal metal screws that have a blunt edge. These are cheaper in quality, but will also install faster, as the pointed tip will allow it to light up a little faster. But it could also do damage, as it could cut a new hole in the metal if you dont have it lined up correctly, and apply a little force.


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## ebonovic

(Click for Larger Version

As you can see from the picture, the mother board is a new design. Smaller and more compact, the IDE port is now in the front of the board. The white strip cables are in just as snug as they where in a Series 2. There is no single little red wire as there was in the HDVR2 soldered on the board.

The power wire to the hard drive is not a single piece. It is 2 twisted pairs, into one connector. They solder directly to the power supply, and covered with the white sealant.
I found that the power supply was a little large then it needed to be, and got in the way a little more then usually.

The IDE cable is no longer a stub, and is more average in length. Which is a good thing if you mess up your cable during an upgrade.. They are easier to find and replace.

You can see the ground wire connected to the case, as well as the more hardy fan. At least this is one thing that doesnt appear to be less in cost.

The hard drive is a Western Digital, Caviar 80gb hard drive. A bit bulky, but should do the job well.  Link to WD website for specs on the drive 

Here are some close ups of the insides:
Zoom in on Hard Drive In Place:
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Zoom in on Circuit Board #1:
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Zoom in on Circuit Board #2:
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Zoom in on Circuit Board #3:
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Zoom in on Circuit Board #4:
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Zoom in on Power Supply:
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Zoom in on Inputs/Outputs:
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Zoom in on Hard Drive
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Zoom in on Hard Drive Removed
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Now lets put it all back together and hook it up.


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## ebonovic

Three familiar yet different screens








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After these three screens. Setup is 100% identical to a Series 2 unit. So I dont want to bore you with the details. There is no check for the 72.5 Sat.
Subsequent boot ups It took almost 6 minutes to go from power on, to first TV Picture.


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## ebonovic

Well as of right now, the GUI performs a little faster. Nothing earth shattering quicker, but it does run a bit smoother. Now I do plan to do an Update in about three weeks, after the unit fully loads up to see if things have improved or not.

As for GUI changes There are only two changes in the GUI outside performance. (that I have found). 1: Folders (more on that next post). 2: DirecTV Guide is now called Grid Guide, Tivo Guide is now called List Guide.

Here are the SysInfo Pages:
 SysInfo #1
 SysInfo #2
 SysInfo #3
 SysInfo #4
 SysInfo #5
 SysInfo #6
 SysInfo #7
Bad Image for Screen #8, I will re-generate later


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## ebonovic

Folders aka Grouping was a feature TiVo added to the Stand Alones in Version 4 of their software. It is now here (officially) on the DirecTV software.

Folders when activated, will combine all common titled shows into one folder.
Once you enter that folder you will see a listing (by title) of those shows. Keeps your Now Playing, a little more organized.

These folders look and act 100% the same as the v4 folders (minus the listing for other Tivos on your network)

There are 4 total options:
 No Folders: Sort by Airing Date
 No Folders: Sort Alphabetically
 Folders: Sort by Airing Date (Folders are inline) 
 Folders: Sort Alphabetically (Folder names on the bottom) 
 Image Inside Folder (Folder names are inline) 

Here is a video of the folders in action.
 Windows Media File
 MPG File


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## ebonovic

Well the guide is functioning faster. But I am reserving judgment and a review of the guide, scheduling performance, and Season Pass maintenance for about a week, so the unit can get some more recordings in it.


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## ebonovic

Well as of right now there is no true networking features with the unit.
However the USB device does initialize, get an IP address, and communicate to Tivo Publisher that is there on the network.

But it doesnt do anything for you.. No replacement for the phone call, or HMO features.
But it is hope:









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 DHCP Request 
 TiVo Publisher


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## ebonovic

Short Cut Tricks Tested Out:

It is documented and on the screen but, in Now Playing.
Hit "1" to toggle sort by alpha or date
Hit "2" to toggle between grouping or not grouping

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Rumored FF and REV usage in lists (jump to top and bottom)
Didn't work Out of the Box... don't know if a backdoor turns them on yet.

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Wishlist now lists: Keywords / Attributes (aka: Charlie Brown and Age Appropriate/Children

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In Now Playing hit: SORT
(S)Low 0 (R)ecord (T)humb Down
Get a screen saying DVR Transfers are Disabled... Purchase HMO at Tivo.com
Click for Screen Shot Image

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30 Second Skip Works

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New 6.1 Software Feature... Program Information Details
See this thread for more details:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212298


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## drew2k

Thanks for the pics and information. 

I see you censored the s/n, RID #, etc. in the system info pics, but you may want to also censor out those same numbers in the pics of the back panel.


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## Rcrew

Hey Earl, sincere thankll s for all the work! Did you get your football game in too?

Your comment about it being worth an upgrade from a series 1, but not necessarliy a series 2 is a huge help to me.


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## dtivofan23

great review earl you should work for cnet lol


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## mike1977

I'm just going to try to add a second hard drive to my 35 hour unit.


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## ebonovic

Thank you for pointing out the numbers.
Updated them... now just need the hosting site to flush it's buffers... 

As for the football game....
TiVoed it (had a wake to go to this afternoon).... And it was a waste of hard drive space... Gosh those Bears are heart brakers... 

At least my Illini are #1 still...


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## slacker9876

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *Well the guide is functioning faster. But� I am reserving judgment and a review of the guide, scheduling performance, and Season Pass maintenance for about a week, so the unit can get some more recordings in it. *


Good Job Earl! I don't blame you for waiting on this, but I'll say I DIRECTLY attribute this to the fact that the unit has more RAM. This was my 9th S2 unit, and while I thought it was slower to boot, I immediately noticed the speed in the GUI, which I have not seen in any other units.

First GOOD pics too I might add!


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## jlib

Is the mfgr warranty still listed as 90 days?


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## ebonovic

According to the manual, 90 Day Warranty....


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## bwash

Great Review!!

Could you comment on Fan and HardDrive noise I am planning on an R10 for the bedroom.

Thanks again for all your effort.

Bww


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## MattDing

Thanks a lot Earl. You Da Man!!

I don't know if you saw my post in the other thread (probably not since you were more than likely working on your awesome review), but if you remeber the beta tester over the summer said there were a few minor interface upgrades. The one I remember is the FF and REV buttons took him to the top and bottom of lists. I also thought he mentioned some changes to the Wishlists. I just wondered if you noticed any of those "little things" while using the R10.

Thanks again,
Matt


I just remembered what he said about Wishlists: They were sorted by input first, and then by category. EX: "CHARLIE BROWN" and Age Appropriate/Children instead of Age Appropriate/Children and "CHARLIE BROWN".


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## MichaelK

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *Well as of right now there is no true networking features with the unit.
> However the USB device does initialize, get an IP address, and communicate to Tivo Publisher that is there on the network.
> 
> But it doesnt do anything for you.. No replacement for the phone call, or HMO features.
> But it is hope:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Click for Larger Version
> 
> DHCP Request
> TiVo Publisher *


OUT OF THE BOX it does that?

i actually find that promising- maybe there's some codes to get daily calls, or other network type stuff. There's really no reason that D* should tell tivo to not put that in. If its isnt supported or an official feature why would they care? But alas i'm not a D* bigwig so i am not too confident.

I cant wait till some one pulls the drive and hexedits the backdoor code to see what they get. You up for it ebonovic?


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## BubbaTX

Noise of fan and (stock) harddrive are not a problem. The R10 is more quiet than my HDVR2.


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## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by slacker9876 _
> *Good Job Earl! I don't blame you for waiting on this, but I'll say I DIRECTLY attribute this to the fact that the unit has more RAM. This was my 9th S2 unit, and while I thought it was slower to boot, I immediately noticed the speed in the GUI, which I have not seen in any other units.
> 
> First GOOD pics too I might add! *


I have found some posts on DDB, that definitively show that this unit has no more memory then a DirecTivo Series 2a and 2b unit. So all the speed improvements we are seeing are from the higher clock speed in the CPU, improved coding, and maybe the new layout of the motherboard has reduced delays.

So far it is running quicker, but like I said... Time will tell.
Thanks for the comments.

As for the other posts: I will check on the Fan, Hard Drive Noise, and the new "trick' features of the remote. But IIRC the Fan and Hard Drive are VERY quiet.


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## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by MichaelK _
> *OUT OF THE BOX it does that?
> ....
> I cant wait till some one pulls the drive and hexedits the backdoor code to see what they get. You up for it ebonovic? *


Yes out of the box it does that... no special trick or anything.

As for hexediting the backdoor code... not just yet, maybe in a few weeks... The wife approval level is dropping, as I have spent the last month with multiple Tivo's cracked open and all over the place.


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## smak

I would consider replacing my T-60 with an R10 (or another new box), when somebody with 50 season passes, and 20 pages of Now Playing still says it's speedy.

-smak-


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## rhuntington3

So the R10's are 80 hours or 70 hours?


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## Jerw134

70 hours, with an 80 GB hard drive.


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## BubbaTX

Smak,

I agree with you, only time will tell if the R10 is actually any better (or worse) than the existing series 2 units. Until this baby is loaded up, of course, it's speedy. Except the awful boot time!

The only reason I have one is because the installer brought this instead of something else. For the moment, I'm happy. When it comes time to mod, I may be saying something else. 

Either way, an 80GB unit for $49 is a steal IMO.


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## ebonovic

Okay... Checked on some things:

Fan and hard drive. From about 5 feet away you can't hear a thing in a modest sounding room. In dead silence... sure you can hear it. Right next to it, I almost have to put my ear on the unit to hear anything of substance.



> _Originally posted by MattDing _
> *The one I remember is the FF and REV buttons took him to the top and bottom of lists.
> 
> I just remembered what he said about Wishlists: They were sorted by input first, and then by category. EX: "CHARLIE BROWN" and Age Appropriate/Children instead of Age Appropriate/Children and "CHARLIE BROWN". *


FF and REV do NOTHING in any of the list modes.

Wishlist now lists: Keywords / Attributes (aka: Charlie Brown and Age Appropriate/Children


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## BubbaTX

Our R10 is in the bedroom. It's in a modest cabinet with a glass front. I can't hear it at all from a few feet away even in the middle of the night. I could definitely hear the HDVR2 (which has been relegated to the family room).


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## MattDing

Thanks Earl.

Now hopefully you get to enjoy your new unit for a little while before the UMF makes you crack it open and hack the crap out of it. 

Matt


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## Robert Deckman

I purchased an R10 over the weekend and notice that (after 4 days) there is no "Showcases" option in the main menu. Are they getting rid of the Showcases?


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## mike1977

> _Originally posted by Robert Deckman _
> *I purchased an R10 over the weekend and notice that (after 4 days) there is no "Showcases" option in the main menu. Are they getting rid of the Showcases? *


I like the "Showcases" when they have movie trailers in them, like Meet the Fockers.


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## ebonovic

Not sure yet if Showcases are going to be in 6.1 or not.
I have to get the unit a little more time to get the showcases downloads scheduled.


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## Robert Deckman

I just read the manual and Showcases are shown. Maybe I need to give it more time.......


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## Jerw134

My new Tivo just got installed. No R10 . But, at least it was a 70 hour model.


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## ebonovic

It appears that the R10 doesn't fix the random color loss problem we have seen on previous DTivo models:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2435097#post2435097


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## chuckkay

does 30 sec. skip hack work?


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## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by chuckkay _
> *does 30 sec. skip hack work? *


S-P-S-3-0-S Bing Bing Bing

Works.


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## BubbaTX

> _Originally posted by chuckkay _
> *does 30 sec. skip hack work? *


Absolutely.


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## alert5

I'm sure I know the answer already, but are the outputs the same?


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## Jerw134

No outputs were added or deleted, but they were re-arranged.


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## DrEvil

They took away the IR Blaster connector.

It was never used on any of the DirecTiVo's except for the Sony SAT-T60 to control some Sony VCR's for the "Save to VCR" function.


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## tivoboy

> _Originally posted by smak _
> *I would consider replacing my T-60 with an R10 (or another new box), when somebody with 50 season passes, and 20 pages of Now Playing still says it's speedy.
> 
> -smak- *


it is still speedy


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## Robert Deckman

After 5 days, my R10 still has no Showcases. Anyone have them yet?


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## westje

I'm new here. I do not have TiVo yet, but with any luck Santa will be bringing one. 
Anyway, I am very interested in what you have had to say about the R10. Pretty thorough. I was a little concerned though about your comment on the 72.5 satellite. What do you mean when you say 'There is no check for the 72.5 Sat.'? 

Thanks!


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## ebonovic

During the setup of the unit, it gives you the opportunity to check the strength of each of teh Sats... During the setup, there was NO opportunity to check specifically for the 72.5 sat.

That being said, I am not familiar enough with the 72.5 sat, other then it is new and provides locals for some newer markets. I don't have one, and maybe the unit is smart enough to detect that and not even give me the option to test for it.


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## bajamark

Well I'm also new to DTV Tivo and purchased the Hughes SD-DVR80 last sunday (best buy) and had loss of color problems. So after reading the forum about the Direct Tv Tech support telling another member here to go get the R10 (at Circuit city) and they have had NO complaints, I also went last night and bought one and activated it....But guess what? Yup, loss of color problem is in the R10 as well. All you have to do is change the channel up and down a few times fast and Bam! Black and White just like the old days of TV. It does cure itself but wow, seeing this link go all the way back to 2003 and no cure yet? What is going on with the Engineering departments? Also, I have DTV coming out this Saturday and installing one more DVR and three standard Rx'rs for $49.00 total. I will be hounding the install tech with this problem. If anything good comes of that I will post it.
Been with DTV for 7 years.


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## Jerw134

What good will hounding the install tech do? He doesn't work for DirecTV, and he didn't write the buggy software for the Tivo. There's nothing he can do about the problem.


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## Apok

Ya, hounding the install guy would just be acting like an ass. Not his fault.


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## MattDing

> _Originally posted by westje _
> *I'm new here. I do not have TiVo yet, but with any luck Santa will be bringing one.
> Anyway, I am very interested in what you have had to say about the R10. Pretty thorough. I was a little concerned though about your comment on the 72.5 satellite. What do you mean when you say 'There is no check for the 72.5 Sat.'?
> 
> Thanks! *


I'm hoping to have locals on the 72.5 coming next year. 

From what I understand of it, the system only offers options for the 72.5 sat if a signal from that slot is detected during startup. An installer (or you) would have already pointed your 2 dishes prior to hooking up the unit and booting it, so it would catch 72.5 and give you the options. Don't worry. The software is built to handle it.


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## shadowfaxs3

I just swapped an T-60 for an R10 and really haven't noticed any speed improvement at all.

It took 24hours to get it working including multiple calls to tech support. Tivo support finally got it straightened out and mentioned that they'll soon have the USB ports working via a software upgrade and it will let me share saved programs between my units.
I guess they're telling everyone.

DTV (customer retention) paid for the R10, dual-LNB and new cable run in exchange for a 1year contract agreement since Dish would have set me up the same way.


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## bajamark

Sorry Usrbingeek, bad choice of words. Lets change "hounding" to "Technical talking". Don't be to quick to think an install tech doesn't turn out to be very Knowledgeable about system operation and troubleshooting. Remember, most great engineers once started as great installers!


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## Blurayfan

> _Originally posted by Robert Deckman _
> *After 5 days, my R10 still has no Showcases. Anyone have them yet? *


My unit just got showcases last night. It was activated on 12/09/2004.


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## mk5572

Mine got Showcases yesterday too. Along with those advertisement things.

Also, Mine is loaded with 32 SP's and about 110 hours of recorded content and it still zips along. WOOHOOO!!!!


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by mk5572 _
> *Along with those advertisement things.*


The ones that pop up when you're fast-forwarding?


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## mk5572

No, I meant the lines that are on the start screen at the bottom such as.....

"ELF now playing on PPV"

I didn't get this line until yesterday, the same time I got the Showcases line.


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## Jerw134

Oh, those are just direct links to specific Showcases.


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## schipperke

Didn't Tivo use to record some show early in the morning, that was there show?


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## spec2

Anyone know if the IR Remote for the R10 uses the same codes as the Philips DSR models that were recently discontinued? My parents are jonesing for a DTivo and it going to fall on me to reprogram their Pronto remotes. I've got the Philips DSR7000 that I bought this summer so I could easily dump my Pronto files into theirs if the R10 uses the same codes. Otherwise they'll just have to live without the direct channel buttons. Did it once and that was plenty.


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by spec2 _
> *Otherwise they'll just have to live without the direct channel buttons. Did it once and that was plenty. *


What a great son!


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## ebonovic

Well I am using the remote from my Philips DSR704... Most of the IR codes between the Tivo Remotes are the same.


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## robgettier

Has anyone noticed a difference in resolution/quality of the Now Playing List screen (and other screens too).

I have a R10 and a Hughes DVR80 hooked up on the same system. Once I started using the R10, I had a sense that something was different.

Sure enough, when I switch the video source back and forth, I can notice a difference between the two. The R10 seems a bit more fuzzy and the shade of green on the NPL is lighter. 

Both these units are connected via S-Video to the same TV.

Not a huge issue, but could the video output on the R-10 possibly be not as good?

Rob


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## Budget_HT

> _Originally posted by robgettier _
> *Has anyone noticed a difference in resolution/quality of the Now Playing List screen (and other screens too).
> 
> I have a R10 and a Hughes DVR80 hooked up on the same system. Once I started using the R10, I had a sense that something was different.
> 
> Sure enough, when I switch the video source back and forth, I can notice a difference between the two. The R10 seems a bit more fuzzy and the shade of green on the NPL is lighter.
> 
> Both these units are connected via S-Video to the same TV.
> 
> Not a huge issue, but could the video output on the R-10 possibly be not as good?
> 
> Rob *


Does your TV have separate settings for each input? Some do, and that might cause the difference you are describing. Have you tried swapping the TiVo's between the two TV inputs?


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## robgettier

> _Originally posted by Budget_HT _
> *Does your TV have separate settings for each input? Some do, and that might cause the difference you are describing. Have you tried swapping th e TiVo's between the two TV inputs? *


I am using the same input on the TV. Each unit is connected to my receiver using S-Video and then there is one S-Video cable going to TV.

The problem is mostly with the lettering. The lettering on the menus of the R10 is fuzzier than the Hughes.

My wife confirmed my suspicion. She told me which one was fuzzier without knowing which was which.

On further review, it may not be entirely that the lettering is fuzzier, but rather that on lines 4 and 5 of the NPL, there green in the background seems to be alot brighter at the beginning of the program title. This seems to be what is making it appear fuzzy (overall, it seems a bit more fuzzy, but this is contributing to it I think)

This is a minor annoying issue. It looks a little crappy. But I also wonder if I am getting sub-par video when a program is on the screen.

I was going to return the Hughes. This may change my mind.


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## ebonovic

Flip the wires... Make sure it is not the S-Video cable degrading the signal..

I haven't seen a different in resoultion at all.


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## success2be

Earl,

Does the 6.1 still have the save-to-vcr feature? I'm thinking about getting a DVD recorder to complement the DirecTiVo once DirecTV release the software upgrade.


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## Blurayfan

> _Originally posted by success2be _
> *Does the 6.1 still have the save-to-vcr feature? I'm thinking about getting a DVD recorder to complement the DirecTiVo once DirecTV release the software upgrade. *


Yes it Does.


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## robgettier

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *Flip the wires... Make sure it is not the S-Video cable degrading the signal..
> 
> I haven't seen a different in resoultion at all. *


I have done that. The issue stays with the receiver. Perhaps I got a bad unit.


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## robgettier

What is most noticeable is the NPL on the R10 has a much greener tone than the Hughes. The Hughes seems to have a blue base and the R10 seems to have a green base. (This could be in the 6.1 software.) Has anyone noticed this? This may be what is causing the noticeable difference. 

Unless others have the same experience, my only option to satisy my concerns is probably to buy another R10 and compare two R10's. This is a pain.


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## drew2k

rogbettier - I don't think you mentioned this, nor has anyone else suggested it: The problem may be the 2nd S-Video port on your AV receiver, the one you just connected your R10 to. I suggest swapping cables and ports on your AV receiver: Connect the R10 to the AV receiver using the cable and port your Hughes was on, and connect the Hughes to the AV receiver using the cable fro the R10 and the second port. If the problem goes away on the R10 and is introduced on the Hughes, then it's the AV receiver's 2nd S-video port.

You could also try bypassing the AV receiver and directly connecting the R10 to the TV's s-video port, just to compare results. I don't know much about S-Video output signal strength, if there is such a thing, but I think the R10 was designed to be cheaper to build. Maybe there's an inferior S-Video connector and by putting the AV receiver between the R10 and the TV, some signal strength is lost? (Just reaching on this last one folks ... don't flame me if my head's up my arse on this!)


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## robgettier

> _Originally posted by drew2k _
> *rogbettier - I don't think you mentioned this, nor has anyone else suggested it: The problem may be the 2nd S-Video port on your AV receiver, the one you just connected your R10 to. I suggest swapping cables and ports on your AV receiver: Connect the R10 to the AV receiver using the cable and port your Hughes was on, and connect the Hughes to the AV receiver using the cable fro the R10 and the second port. If the problem goes away on the R10 and is introduced on the Hughes, then it's the AV receiver's 2nd S-video port.
> 
> You could also try bypassing the AV receiver and directly connecting the R10 to the TV's s-video port, just to compare results. I don't know much about S-Video output signal strength, if there is such a thing, but I think the R10 was designed to be cheaper to build. Maybe there's an inferior S-Video connector and by putting the AV receiver between the R10 and the TV, some signal strength is lost? (Just reaching on this last one folks ... don't flame me if my head's up my arse on this!) *


Thanks. I tried this. No dice.


----------



## Ensoniq

As a new owner of (2) R10 units, sorry to hijack this thread for a quick question about the One For All URC6131 remote:

Can the URC6131 control (2) different DVR units that are in the same room? I have one of the TiVo Dual-DVR peanut remotes (with the 1-2 switch on it) that I've been using but it's falling apart. I thought about replacing it with the same unit in the cool translucent blue color, but thought maybe the One For All would be a better overall replacement with better control for my Broksonic TV/VCR/DVD combo.

Thanks in advance for the info...and now back to your regularly scheduled program.


----------



## ssalinas

I currently have a Hughes 40 DTV box. I went to CC last night to purchase the 80 hour integrated box. What is the difference/preference between the Hughes (HNS SDDVR80) DTV and the "Directv" (DTV R10) brand Tivo boxes?

I only have one coax coming in from the dish to the TV. Is it possible to use 2 boxes on the same TV? How do I set that up? Can I record on one and watch tv from the other? Or would I just be better off placing the old tivo box in another room?

TIA!


----------



## Jerw134

The difference between the two boxes is that the R10 has the 6.1 software on it now, and the DVR80 has 3.1 on it now, but will be upgraded later. The R10 also has some slightly improved hardware, but nothing major.

It's possible to use two boxes on the same TV, as long as you have at least two cables coming from the dish. You'd be much better off just running another cable and using one Tivo. Believe me, it's worth it.


----------



## ssalinas

So the DVR80 will upgrade software automatically and it is safe to keep the 3.1? I've already purchase the Hughes and I don't want to even open the box unless I am sure it is basically the same quality as the R10? Is the GUI the same? I've been very happy over the past year with the Hughes 40 hr....
What would you do?


----------



## ebonovic

The 6.1 software (which is on the R10), is just slightly different then the 3.1. Mostly with the addition of the Folders option/

The R10 right now has improved performance, slightly because of hardware, but we don't know yet if the software is helping.

So.... If you have the choice... I would replace it for the R10, but it is not the end of the world, if you stay with the DVR-80


----------



## ssalinas

Many thanks!


----------



## CsrLiz344

I finally got my $49 deal from DTV, and they brought me an R10-I was shocked to say the least. The first thing I and the tech noticed was how quick it was to set up, he said he's installed many that get hung up for up to an hour. I noticed everything is way quicker, which I like, my Phillips can take awhile to do specific things. So far I like it, it was a nice surprise.


----------



## Shape

I have 2 Series 1 Phillips boxes. Both of them blew out their modems in an electrical storm a year and a half ago. To say that they are SLOW is an understatement!! It can take a minute to get into now playing.

What are the chances that I can get customer retention to replace them with 2 of these babies?


----------



## ebonovic

Unless you have the protection plan... not very high.
But it can't hurt to call and ask.


----------



## bugs99

Any information about what it would take to upgrade this box with a 2nd hard drive? Brackets? Cables?

Also, is it possible to take out the 2nd hard drive from an old Sony SAT-T60 (with the recorded programs) and add it to this box? Would I still be able to access those programs from the R10?


----------



## ebonovic

As for a bracket... Check PTVUpgrades and Weakness , I am not sure if they have bracket's yet, but I am certain they are working on them.

As for taking the drive from your SAT-T60..
You can use the drive, but you will lose the recordings.

There is no upgrade method for any Tivo (DirecTivo or SA Tivo) that will allow you to access the recordings on the 2nd drive in a different system.


----------



## JimSpence

> _Originally posted by Ensoniq _
> *As a new owner of (2) R10 units, sorry to hijack this thread for a quick question about the One For All URC6131 remote:
> 
> Can the URC6131 control (2) different DVR units that are in the same room? I have one of the TiVo Dual-DVR peanut remotes (with the 1-2 switch on it) that I've been using but it's falling apart. I thought about replacing it with the same unit in the cool translucent blue color, but thought maybe the One For All would be a better overall replacement with better control for my Broksonic TV/VCR/DVD combo.
> 
> Thanks in advance for the info...and now back to your regularly scheduled program.  *


 Yes the 6131 can control two units. But, you have to get one of the modified versions so that you can use two different remote addresses.


----------



## DarienA

Any Harmony users in this thread with an R10? Harmony doesn't yet have the R10 listed as a DirecTV product so I'm having trouble finding a remote configuration that works comfortably with my newly given as a birthday gift 688. The Hughes 10-250 seemed to work ok, the DSR704 terribly.... any suggestions?


----------



## doomtown

My new R-10 looks different on the on screen guide and menus. Looks fuzzier or dull. Not near as clear or brite than my other receivers. Harder to read. I also notice a slight green tint to all pictures on all channels! I compared it to my hughes and 2 philips. I tried every different way of connecting to make sure it is the R-10, and not something else, like the input, or connection. Very noticeable when connected on same tv in split screen. (yes, I switch the connections to be sure). 
Guess I'll have to return this! Anyone else notice anything? Should I get another R-10, or another Hughes?


----------



## ebonovic

DarienA:
The R10 uses the exact same remote as your DSR704. I am actually USING my remote from the DSR704, instead of the one that came with the R10... Simply becase I didn't want to reprogram the TV and AV controls.

DoomTown:
There is another thread out there specifically talking about your issue. I personally have not seen that problem with the two R10s I have hooked up.


----------



## robgettier

> _Originally posted by doomtown _
> *My new R-10 looks different on the on screen guide and menus. Looks fuzzier or dull. Not near as clear or brite than my other receivers. Harder to read. I also notice a slight green tint to all pictures on all channels! I compared it to my hughes and 2 philips. I tried every different way of connecting to make sure it is the R-10, and not something else, like the input, or connection. Very noticeable when connected on same tv in split screen. (yes, I switch the connections to be sure).
> Guess I'll have to return this! Anyone else notice anything? Should I get another R-10, or another Hughes? *


I have had this exact same issue. My R-10 is going back. See other thread at:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212245


----------



## twash

Great review. I see an IR output on the rear of the R10. I was wondering, does the R10 manual give any indication that it can start and stop a DVD recorder automatically using an IR emitter? For instance are there any remote codes listed in its manual for the numerous makes of DVD recorders...I bet not...

It would be kind of nice to be able to automatically start and stop, especially to stop, a DVD recorder that you have hooked to the R10 so that you would not have to be present to make a hard drive transfer to DVD. If the R10 would just make the transfer stop automatically, that would be very helpful. I guess that is one of the desirable features of the Humax, that it stops the DVD recording process automatically at the end of the program that you are transferring to DVD.

Thanks...


----------



## ebonovic

There is no IR output on the R10... It has been removed.
There is a serial output ...


----------



## twash

Oops, okay, well that answers that don't it...


----------



## forteDiva

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *During the setup of the unit, it gives you the opportunity to check the strength of each of teh Sats... During the setup, there was NO opportunity to check specifically for the 72.5 sat.
> 
> That being said, I am not familiar enough with the 72.5 sat, other then it is new and provides locals for some newer markets. I don't have one, and maybe the unit is smart enough to detect that and not even give me the option to test for it. *


ok. 72.5 satellite. You have to do an auto-detect for the Tivo to detect for all Sats out there. Once it does, you should have access


----------



## ebonovic

Well the R10 has 6.1 software... And I don't have a 72.5 dish up, so... I can't verify if the 6.1 will work with the 72.5


----------



## forteDiva

Yep, I messed up on the version on that one, I have since edited my comment. Thanks for telling me the software version number-I need that for where I work-we weren't aware that the software version was different that for the rest of our tivos. I'll be forwarding that one so that our info will be updated. Thanks


----------



## mhallerbach

I just got an R10, am new to DVrs, but in one of the previous review posts on this thread it was mentioned that this unit has the 30 second skip feature by default. If so, please tell me how to do it, as the manual does not mention it, and I have not been able to find it playing around on it. Is this only available as a backdoor code, or a special code. Please let me know if you can, as I can't believe this feature wouldn't be included by default, since it would be extremely helpful because of those pesky commercials.


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by mhallerbach _
> *I can't believe this feature wouldn't be included by default, since it would be extremely helpful because of those pesky commercials. *


Those pesky commercials are the exact reason why the 30 second skip is no longer turned on by default.


----------



## memnoch

Thanks to everyone here. I've been a lurker for a while with a SA TiVo Sony SVR-3000. Moved from cable to D* a little over a year ago. The Sony made the transition with me. I had two tuners installed in the LR. One dedicated to the Tivo. After reading everything here recently, I decided to go out and get an R-10. I didn't need installation and couldn't wait any longer so just went out and picked one up. I turned off both LR tuners and connected both lines to the R-10. By taking off both, I saved the extra $5 on a second tuner, then by adding the DVR, I tacked on $5 - braking even. Then by stopping the SA TiVo's monthly subscription, I will basically have the R-10 paid off in less then a year and have less bills. Can't lose!!! BTW, I'm very happy with the R-10. Sorry for the run-on. Thanks again!


----------



## jasch

> _Originally posted by mhallerbach _
> *I just got an R10, am new to DVrs, but in one of the previous review posts on this thread it was mentioned that this unit has the 30 second skip feature by default. If so, please tell me how to do it, as the manual does not mention it, and I have not been able to find it playing around on it. Is this only available as a backdoor code, or a special code. Please let me know if you can, as I can't believe this feature wouldn't be included by default, since it would be extremely helpful because of those pesky commercials. *


This is not exactly true. All TIVo units have the 30 second skip turned off by default. You have to active it allways through backdoor codes.


----------



## Kepler

> _Originally posted by BubbaTX _
> *Smak,
> Either way, an 80GB unit for $49 is a steal IMO. *


Is anyone selling the R-10 for $49 for existing DirecTiVo customers?


----------



## DrEvil

The 30 second skip is turned on while you playback something previously recorded by pressing play-select-3-0-select. You should hear three beeps if you did it right.

It is off by default, and if your TiVo reboots you will have to enter it again.

Edit: I got it wrong, it's select-play-select-3-0-select.


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by Kepler _
> *Is anyone selling the R-10 for $49 for existing DirecTiVo customers? *


Not guaranteed, but if you're willing to take a chance, you may get one from DirecTV.


----------



## Montaño

> _Originally posted by DrEvil _
> *The 30 second skip is turned on while you playback something previously recorded by pressing play-select-3-0-select. You should hear three beeps if you did it right.
> 
> It is off by default, and if your TiVo reboots you will have to enter it again. *


I believe it SELECT/Play/Select/3/0/Select


----------



## tomo_kun

Just some more hints of more TiVo intergration.

Look at the DirecTV DVR site, it used to *barely* mention TiVo at all, now look.


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by tomo_kun _
> *Look at the DirecTV DVR site, it used to *barely* mention TiVo at all, now look. *


Attached is a screenshot of the old site, and here's a link to the current site: http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/imagine/TIVO.dsp

The new site and the old site actually mention Tivo in the text only once (both also mention it in their headers), and the new site actually has one less Tivo logo.


----------



## tomo_kun

look at the all around site, The whole site mentions TiVo a lot more.


----------



## Jerw134

It looks to me like they just beefed up the content on the site, not that they went out of their way to promote the Tivo brand.


----------



## DrEvil

> _Originally posted by Montaño _
> *I believe it SELECT/Play/Select/3/0/Select *


Thanks Montaño, I should have double checked before posting that.


----------



## tebbens

Is the DVR80 being discontinued, replaced by the R10 ?


----------



## Jerw134

All DirecTV DVRs have been discontinued, in favor of the R10.


----------



## leesweet

Um, not the HD Tivo (HR10-250), of course.

Which always made me wonder on their new numbering scheme... we have an HR10, and an R10.... makes sense now!


----------



## mhallerbach

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Montaño 
I believe it SELECT/Play/Select/3/0/Select 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The code to get it working on the R10 was "Play/Select/3/0/Select". I tried the other way with no luck, and ended up getting it to work with this.

thanks for all of your help everybody.


----------



## toxic

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *Not guaranteed, but if you're willing to take a chance, you may get one from DirecTV. *


I just got an R10 from D* this morning...installer said that is all he has...said all the others have "disappeared."

I just converted from UTV...got HR10-250 yesterday and the R10 today. So far so good. As you are well aware, ex-UTV users miss many features but I am trying to learn TIVO and not dwell on the negatives.

I got the 30 skip working...are there any other really good codes that people use alot? I read thru the list but didn't see anything like the 30 second skip that was essential.

Also, right after setup it seemed to act a little quirky - not responding to the remote for a minute or so, then acting on everything that was hit. Hoping it was just running slow because it was setting up. Anyone else have this experience? All I have to compare it to is the HDTIVO and it didn't do that.


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by toxic _
> *I just got an R10 from D* this morning...installer said that is all he has*


If an installer brought it, it wasn't from DirecTV. Installers have their own stock. I was talking about getting one directly from DirecTV.


----------



## ebonovic

IIRC
DirecTV only ships units directly as a replacement for a defective unit.
All others come via an Installer if you are purchasing from DirecTV.

At least that how it was early last year, (when I purchased one of the $50 units from DTV, and when I have replaced my HD unit a few times)


----------



## jeep1999

Hi,

Looking at a R10 for my existing Directv account. I have a Dual LNB Dish with 3 tv's and their own RCA recievers. I want to get a R10 unit. I am assuming I can switch out one receiver for the DirectDRV R10 unit? Is this correct? Or do I have to run a separate additional ine from my Dish? I have a 4 way splitter so I could have 4 separate TV's. 

Also, would love to program it via a my PC through IE. I have read the USB ports are active and you can get it to work with DHCP. 

Also, is there anyone offering the $50 deal for DVR for existing customers? I mean I have been with DTV for a long time and would think they would be willing to give their existing customers a deal..

Thanks for any answers in advance.

Jeep1999


----------



## Jerw134

If you want to utilize both tuners on the Tivo, you'll need to run an additional line for it. This is highly recommended.

In order to program the Tivo through a web browser, you'll need to hack it. Check the Underground for more info on that.

DirecTV is the one offering the $49 DVR deal for existing customers.


----------



## ebonovic

1) To enable dual tuner recording... You will need and extra line. Do a serach on multiswitch to identify which ones is right for you and the dish you have. You need to get a 5th line into the system. A regular cable splitter doesn't work.

2) Current software version (6.1), are activating the USB ports and talking to the network. However, you can really DO anything with it yet. As of right now there are no rumors that Web Programming is comming in sorts of future update. 

3) The only way is to call DirecTV and talk to them, no vendor right now can sell a unit at $49 to an existing customer.


----------



## jeep1999

Thanks to both of you. I went on DirectTV's website, they say $99.00 for existing customers. But I will call them if that is what I need to do.

I was also hoping to be able to take home movies (VHS), record them to the DVR then transfer them to my PC to burn to DVR. Is this at all possible with the R10? Or will it be in the future? I don't wish to purchase a DVD recorder when I have one for my computer.

Thanks again
Jeep1999

PS - I do have a 4 port multi switch, not a splitter. Sorry. 1 port is not in use, can I use that one for the 2nd line to the DVR?


----------



## ebonovic

The R10 (and all DirecTivos for that matter), can only record what DirecTV sends them in Digital format. They don't have any inputs for any other signal (the HD unit has an antenna though, for digital OTA).

Also you can not transfer programs from your DVR to your PC (without hacking).

So your best bet would to pickup a digital bridge device (Dazzle, Pinnacle, DV Camcorder) they range from $60 to several hundred depending on which way you go.

You would then hook your VCR to your PC basically and do what you are looking to do.

(The SA Tivo's don't have any offical DVR to PC video transfer either).

Yes you can use that free port on your multiswitch for your line.


----------



## jeep1999

Thank you ebonovic. I see the Tivo series 2 does allow a network port via USB so you can program from a web interface. I went to their website. The recording from DVR to PC DVD was another question. I dont know why this just can be an option. 

Thanks again for all the info!

Jeep1999


----------



## Athenian

> _Originally posted by jeep1999 _
> *Also, is there anyone offering the $50 deal for DVR for existing customers? I mean I have been with DTV for a long time and would think they would be willing to give their existing customers a deal..
> *


 If you've been a customer for a while, ask the CSR what the penalty would be to cancel -- you'll probably get your TiVo for $15 or free. They cannot specify any model or capacity but the installation is free and includes moving the existing receiver somewhere else.

If you have two receivers, have the installer move the old one to the room with the other one and if you decide the unit you get is too small, you can move it to the secondary location and get an R10 from somewhere else.


> *I see the Tivo series 2 does allow a network port via USB so you can program from a web interface.*


The USB ports are not enabled on DirecTiVos ...yet.


----------



## DBCooper

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> 
> I don't recall the HDR2 looking anything like that. Where would the second drive go?
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Click for Larger Version*


----------



## DrEvil

You would have to get a mounting bracket from www.weaknees.com or www.9thtee.com to add a second drive to any of the series 2 based DirecTiVo's.


----------



## DBCooper

> _Originally posted by DrEvil _
> *You would have to get a mounting bracket from www.weaknees.com or www.9thtee.com to add a second drive to any of the series 2 based DirecTiVo's. *


 That's a given. But where does it go, under the existing hard-drive cable?


----------



## mishagray

> _Originally posted by DBCooper _
> *That's a given. But where does it go, under the existing hard-drive cable? *


It usually hangs "suspended" over the motherboard (rotated 90 degrees from the other drive).


----------



## dnbassassin

little off the subject 


> _Originally posted by leesweet _
> *Um, not the HD Tivo (HR10-250), of course.
> 
> Which always made me wonder on their new numbering scheme... we have an HR10, and an R10.... makes sense now! *


here the new name conventions for for all ird in furture. 
d=standard receiver
h= hd receiver 
r=dvr
hr=hd with dvr also nrb after indicate hd size
and number indicates generation
for Example d10
stardard ird first generation

"200" and "300" mean the user interface is different from the D10
200 like have samsung sir 300w and 300 like have philips dsx5500
just clear that up


----------



## Books

I keep seeing reports that many are unhappy with the picture from the r10. Is anyone happy with it? We've got to pick up a new DVR today, and I'm trying to decide between the r10 and the Hughes.


----------



## ebonovic

I have two of them, and have no issues with their PQ at all.
One is in my master bedroom, so we use it daily, and I have zero complaints about it.


----------



## leesweet

Is the picture variation between boxes real or in the eye of the beholder, do we think?


----------



## Books

We bit the bullet and got the R10. I've got to say that I'm not happy with it. I've got perfect eyesight and I had trouble with reading the menus. I couldn't distinguish between the letter G and the number 6 when I was asked the units access card number. We didn't have it hooked up with s-video at first, but even with that the menus don't look good. The picture quality did improve with the s-video, but I don't know if I can live with it as is. We'll try it for a day to see if we can get used to it, if not, we'll bring it back and exchange it for the Hughes.


----------



## Oneota

Just got the standard installation of DirecTV with DVR yesterday, and it included an R10 (without my asking for anything special), so it looks like they're starting to make their way to the unwashed masses!

So far, no complaints, though scrolling through the programs is slower than I expected (I'm used to the speed on my parents' standard Hughes receiver, though, so I'm sure I'll get used to the R10).

Just an FYI.


----------



## Theatermax

Yes , I have tested R10's against the DVR80 RCA. I have done this on Pioneer Elite Plasma's, Sony XBR, Pioneer Pro730 HDTV.. It's all the same..

The Menus are blurry , I don't know what the heck they did but it really stinks. The real unfortunate part is that they will probably be the only Tivo Maker as of this coming year. That means we are going to have to live with this low quality menu stuff..

What do we do ??


----------



## Apok

Does low quality menu's really matter? I for one could care less if the menu looks crappy as long as it doesn't effect the show's PQ.


----------



## Theatermax

It does mean alot. From 10 feet away you can't read it without squinting!

That's a bad thing !


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by Theatermax _
> *The real unfortunate part is that they will probably be the only Tivo Maker as of this coming year.*


There has only been one "Tivo Maker". The difference is, it appears they decided to go with lower quality parts in this new version of the Tivo.


----------



## Books

> _Originally posted by usrbingeek _
> *Does low quality menu's really matter? I for one could care less if the menu looks crappy as long as it doesn't effect the show's PQ. *


Unfortunately, in our case, it just isn't the menu. The picture quality is suffering as well. I've also noticed that the guides, while they come up quickly, aren't filled in. There is a lag of a few seconds with lots of blank space when the guide button is first pressed. This morning the unit is even buggier. It is barely responding to the remote, where as last night it was quite responsive.

We are going to exchange it this morning for the Hughes and I plan on not keeping it hooked up to a phone line until I see that how other series 2 units respond the upcoming upgrade. Hopefully this isn't just the new software.


----------



## jeep1999

So after reading these follow ups, do I go with an R10 or a Huges? I would really like to be able to program it eventually from my PC. I understand they have to be hacked but it seems the R10 is not ready for this yet.

I am leaning towards the R10 only because I can get one from DTV for 50 bucks I have heard.

Thanks
Jeep1999


----------



## Jerw134

I still say get an R10. But, the $49 deal was finished yesterday. Now, it's $99 with a $50 rebate.


----------



## Oneota

Picture quality on the video and menus seems just fine to me with my R10. But then, I've only had DirecTV (or a TiVo, for that matter) since Thursday, so it's not like I have a good basis for comparison.

But it all seems hunky-dory to me, other than the R10 occasionally insisting on recording shows:
a) I have no interest in
b) that are on channels I don't have a subscription to.

"a" I can understand, since it's still learning what I do and don't like. But as for "b": it should be able to figure out whether or not I'm subscribed to a channel before it goes and records an hour of black screen, shouldn't it?


----------



## Jerw134

The Tivo cannot figure out if you're subscribed to a channel or not. Why it can't do that, I don't have a clue. You have to edit the Channels You Receive list to let it know what channels you subscribe to.


----------



## Oneota

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *The Tivo cannot figure out if you're subscribed to a channel or not. Why it can't do that, I don't have a clue. You have to edit the Channels You Receive list to let it know what channels you subscribe to. *


Yeah, that seems exceedingly stupid. Couldn't take more than 4-5 lines of code (well, perhaps more, but still a trivial amount) to communicate that information from the DirecTV side of things to the TiVo side of things (assuming there's some distinct point where the DirecTV ends and the TiVo begins).


----------



## ncsercs

Earl,

I have 2 R10's.

My computer is running XP with a D-Link DI-614+ Router and SBC Yahoo DSL.

I created a simple network with the Home Network Wizard. 

I got 2 D-Link DWL-122 USB adapters for each R10 and plugged them in the back.

My network does not recognize them. 

How would I get to the point where you are at? I know I'm missing something.

Much appreciated.


----------



## ebonovic

On your router, you should have a place where you can see the DHCP requests. You will see two MAC addresses requesting addresses... Those should correspond to your two nics in your R10.

You can also install the TivoCommunicator software from Tivo.Com.
You will see your two R10 listed in the exlusion list for units.

But with all that said....

Currently the R10s just talk to the network. But they don't do anything. (Kinda like talking to your kids... You talk, but they don't do anything).

There is currently no functionality there yet...

You can drop me a PM if you need more details.

Hopefully in the next few months they will give us


----------



## dbronstein

> _Originally posted by Oneota _
> *Yeah, that seems exceedingly stupid. Couldn't take more than 4-5 lines of code (well, perhaps more, but still a trivial amount) to communicate that information from the DirecTV side of things to the TiVo side of things (assuming there's some distinct point where the DirecTV ends and the TiVo begins). *


No kidding - even the Dish Network PVRs know what channels you're subscribed to.


----------



## Jerw134

The only reason I can come up with is marketing. DirecTV may think that if users are exposed to these channels by the Tivo recording something that "interests" them, they may be more likely to check it out.


----------



## Oneota

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *The only reason I can come up with is marketing. DirecTV may think that if users are exposed to these channels by the Tivo recording something that "interests" them, they may be more likely to check it out. *


...But how are we supposed to check out something we're not subscribed to?

"Oo...that 90 minutes of black screen looks intriguing!"


----------



## Jerw134

You wouldn't be able to check out what it recorded, but you'd see the title of the show, and it could draw your attention to a channel you might not have thought about before.


----------



## digital_b

> _Originally posted by jeep1999 _
> *So after reading these follow ups, do I go with an R10 or a Huges? I would really like to be able to program it eventually from my PC. I understand they have to be hacked but it seems the R10 is not ready for this yet.
> 
> I am leaning towards the R10 only because I can get one from DTV for 50 bucks I have heard.
> 
> Thanks
> Jeep1999 *


I really dont [literally] see the difference between the hughes and the r10 externally. I was at circuit city Friday and there is a d* display there with both boxes and the ONLY difference [on the front anyway] was the logo. the buttons and 'styling' the colors EVERYTHING is exactly the same. so is hughes making all the boxes now or was the display I looked at out of date? there were boxes of hughes and rca dtivos as well as d* branded ones.


----------



## Jerw134

The Hughes SD-DVR40 looks *nothing* like the R10. You may have gotten it confused with the RCA, because the R10 is using almost exactly the same exterior design as the RCA.


----------



## Oneota

Who makes the R10, anyway?


----------



## Adam1115

Has anyone made any headway on hacking the R10 to add HMO / MRV?


----------



## mphare

> _Originally posted by Oneota _
> *Who makes the R10, anyway? *


I think I read that Thomson is making them, hince the visual similarity to the RCA units.


----------



## digital_b

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *The Hughes SD-DVR40 looks nothing like the R10. You may have gotten it confused with the RCA, because the R10 is using almost exactly the same exterior design as the RCA. *


I can read perfectly well and HUGHES looks nothing like RCA. now the model number was not on the front of the receiver but I stand by what I saw.


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by digital_b _
> *I can read perfectly well and HUGHES looks nothing like RCA. now the model number was not on the front of the receiver but I stand by what I saw. *


I'm not saying that you can't read, just that you may have gotten confused. Here's a comparison:


----------



## iqwertyi

So, I was playing around with my brother's R10, does anyone else notice that hitting the rewind button once rewinds just as fast as hitting it three times?


----------



## Oneota

> _Originally posted by iqwertyi _
> *So, I was playing around with my brother's R10, does anyone else notice that hitting the rewind button once rewinds just as fast as hitting it three times? *


Nope...goes much faster for me. Maybe he was playing around with backdoor codes or something?


----------



## lqwertyl

I'll check again. Nope, no backdoors or anything. It's his frist DTivo from me for Christmas. I set it up myself.


----------



## temp357

Hi,
Just wanted to express my thanks to ebonovic for the great review of the r10. I hadn't seen this question anywhere, but has anyone tried running v6 software on the hdvr2? Also, based on what i've read...it looks like the folders/grouping feature are the only real additions?

thanks again


----------



## ebonovic

Running v6 on an HDVR2.

Yes people have tried, and currently... it doesn't work.

Right now, on the surface, folders/grouping are the only real additions, a few other screens have changed, but nothing earth shattering.

The USB ports are now on, but they don't do anything yet....


----------



## jcricket

Any rumors about HMO? I've heard various people saying that Q1 or Q2 of this year we'd see HMO available for the DirecTivos. I would go right out and get a R10 to replace my Hughes Series 1 DirecTivo if HMO were available. Would eliminate a couple of devices in my Media rack.

Now if only the R10 had a DVD recorder built-in...


----------



## Tim32672

Stupid Question... How do you turn off the 30 second skip???


----------



## mhallerbach

I am a new R10 owner(first Tivo unit I have owned), and after recording a few blank shows(Due to it not automatically knowing what channels I recieved), finally manually corrected this. 

Another feature which I see its lacking, or maybe I am missing it, is some sort of message telling me that I am choosing to record a show that has already started and will therefore only have a partial recording. If I am not careful in checking the current time, and pick something to record, it doesn't tell you that its already started. Later, in the now playing list, I will see the program, and it will say "partial recording" in the description, but it seems to me it would be easy enough to give you a warning when you are setting up the recording.

I have found plenty of quirky things in this unit already, such as deleting a specific episode in a folder group, and then getting a message there are no other shows in the folder, only to discover that it had wiped out my other recorded programs in that folder along with the only one I wanted deleted. Also, canceling a recording in process, only to find it ignored my command and recorded it anyways. Blurry guide, etc.

By the way, is there anyway to determine how much recording space is left/used on the 80 hours, by entering a command or something(Not a backdoor since nobody know the R10 backdoor).

Also, is there anyway to skip a certain amount of hours in the guide when looking at a specific channel entry, without having to change the entire giude settings with the enter command(such as a shortcut). For example if I am looking at channel 2 on the guide, if I want to quickly skip ahead 24 hours and see whats playing. On my Dish giuide I used to be able to hit 24 and right arrow, and it would jump there.


Has anyone published a complete "remote shortcut" sheet, as the book that comes with this model is very basic and appears to be missing some commands that I have already learned.

Thanks


----------



## digital_b

this is why my next dtivo will be purchased 'pre modded'.


----------



## shepler76

> _Originally posted by Tim32672 _
> *Stupid Question... How do you turn off the 30 second skip??? *


You need to reboot it


----------



## shepler76

> _Originally posted by mhallerbach _
> *Also, is there anyway to skip a certain amount of hours in the guide when looking at a specific channel entry, without having to change the entire giude settings with the enter command(such as a shortcut). For example if I am looking at channel 2 on the guide, if I want to quickly skip ahead 24 hours and see whats playing. On my Dish giuide I used to be able to hit 24 and right arrow, and it would jump there.
> *


With the Guide open press the "info" button This brings up another menu and you can change dates and times


----------



## mhallerbach

> _Originally posted by shepler76 _
> *With the Guide open press the "info" button This brings up another menu and you can change dates and times *


I know about that - I was hoping for an "on the fly" shortcut instead.

Thanks


----------



## Jonathan_S

> _Originally posted by shepler76 _
> *You need to reboot it *


 Or reenter the 30 second skip code. That code is a toggle. Enter it once 30 second skip is on, enter it again and 30 second skip is off.


----------



## swoope

directivo choice??

first ? hard

i have two diretvivos sitting in front of me.

1 r 10
2 hughes dvr 80

both have the same remotes. the mother board on the r 10 and date stamping are more recent. the hughes has more chips and looks like it is out dated.

comes down to which is more extreme user friendly.

beers


----------



## Jerw134

Please keep your stuff in one thread.


----------



## jeep1999

So from what I am reading, go with the R10 and wait for web access to program it or download from the tivo hard drive to my computer. I just hope I will be able to do this at some point.

Thanks for the info, this is a great thread.

Jeep1999


----------



## iqwertyi

Swoope,

Kinda had the same dilema as you.
I bought my brother an R10 for Christmas and hooked it up to my setup. Even though I liked the features it had and possibility of other features to show up, I could not get over the image quality (vs. my HDVR2). Then my HDVR2 dies. So, it was either get the R10 or the Hughes DVR80. I went with the DVR80. I figured my brother and I have about 30 days to compare these two units and whichever does better, we'll switch to that one.

Although the idea of TivoToGo and Home Media Option is great, to me, Picture Quality is above anything else. I could not sacrifice PQ vs the other features it offers.

Let's see what happens.


----------



## gtrogue

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *
> FF and REV do NOTHING in any of the list modes.
> *


Try the skip to tick and instant replay buttons. On stand alones they are the buttons that jump to the top and bottom of lists.


----------



## digital_b

> _Originally posted by iqwertyi _
> *Swoope,
> 
> Kinda had the same dilema as you.
> I bought my brother an R10 for Christmas and hooked it up to my setup. Even though I liked the features it had and possibility of other features to show up, I could not get over the image quality (vs. my HDVR2). Then my HDVR2 dies. So, it was either get the R10 or the Hughes DVR80. I went with the DVR80. I figured my brother and I have about 30 days to compare these two units and whichever does better, we'll switch to that one.
> 
> Although the idea of TivoToGo and Home Media Option is great, to me, Picture Quality is above anything else. I could not sacrifice PQ vs the other features it offers.
> 
> Let's see what happens. *


I agree. picture quality on a directivo is of paramount importance.


----------



## joeinma

MY R10 was delivered yesterday. Set up and activation was a snap for the most part. However, I hit a snag when I tried to do a test call. The R10 will not dial out. I had the same issue when I moved to this house (my in-laws) with my DSR6000. It had turned out that they have voice mail but do not know the password. Therefore, there are several beeps on the line before you get a dial tone. On the DSR6000, I solved this by putting various codes in the set up.

My DSR6000 phone set up is as follows:

Dial Prefix ,#034 

Call Waiting ,,, 

Tone/Pulse = Tone

Phone Available = Off

Wait for Dial Tone = On

This unit dials out fine. I set up the R10 the same way, but kept getting could not connect message. I tried changing settings, but nothing worked. 

Until I get it to dial, I can watch tv but cannot record. Any suggestions?

Also,one of the phone set up screens warns you that a digital PBX system could ruin the modem and tells you to use a analog PBX. What is the difference between the two? Does it have anything to do with a phone system that uses CAT5E rather than the old phone wires?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## howmeister123

When I upgraded my Sat-T60 to the R10, I had a similar problem and tried the same things that you have, with no sucess. It turned out that the R10 modem was more sensitive to the DSL that's on the same line. I had to add one of those DSL noise elimination dongles to get the R10 to connect. The Sat-T60 had always worked fine without one.


----------



## Rkkeller

Still no Showcases on my R-10 and its been over 2 weeks now.

Anyone else ?


Rich


----------



## dropper

> _Originally posted by Rkkeller _
> *Still no Showcases on my R-10 and its been over 2 weeks now.
> 
> Anyone else ?
> 
> Rich *


Do you have 581 and 582 blocked?

Keith


----------



## leesweet

> _Originally posted by joeinma _
> *Also,one of the phone set up screens warns you that a digital PBX system could ruin the modem and tells you to use a analog PBX. What is the difference between the two? Does it have anything to do with a phone system that uses CAT5E rather than the old phone wires?
> 
> Thanks for any help! *


 Cabling isn't the issue. (Most phones that aren't VoIP use one pair of wires.) If you have a PBX that uses digital phones (this is in no way connected to VoIP, BTW!), normal analog modems connected to one of these lines can be and usually are damaged.

This note on the screen is a CYA in case someone tries to use these modems at work. If you get a dialtone from a normal $10 phone, it's fine for the TiVo.


----------



## t-readyroc

Hey Earl... thx for the info. I've been reading about the R10 for a couple of days on these forums now; as I got one for Christmas. I'm planning to continue to read as much as I can, but, as I'm sure you're aware, the "mysterious, HMO-like service" has been released in the form of TiVoToGo; & everything I've found online so far says that TiVoToGo will only run on Series2 boxes.

My question is this, then: will TiVoToGo work on the R10? From what I've read, it's a "Series2.5," & I haven't been able to find a list of known working receivers anywhere...


----------



## Jerw134

HMO and Tivo2Go will *not* work on the R10. HMO will work soon though, but there are no plans for Tivo2Go to be rolled out on DirecTV DVRs as far as I know.


----------



## digital_b

> _Originally posted by dropper _
> *Do you have 581 and 582 blocked?
> 
> Keith *


what exactly is on these channels? I just looked at my guide for one of them and the 'programming' lasts from 440 to 449 am EST.


----------



## Jerw134

Those channels carry the video for the Showcases.


----------



## digital_b

well for whatever reason I dont and have never had the showcase on my philips 704. I dont know if the sw hacks block it or maybe my channel guide should be changed from 'channels you receive' but I dont think I miss the used hd space for their spam anyway. would be nice if the showcase was actually useful.


----------



## Jerw134

The Showcases are recorded to a reserved section on the HD. No matter if they're there or not, you can't use that space.


----------



## digital_b

with that being the case how then does one find showcases on an philps dsr 704? and since you and I are both online this begs the question why isnt there a setup for IM listing so questions can be asked/answered in realtime?


----------



## Jerw134

I have a DSR704, and it has always had Showcases. If you have 581 and 582 in your CYR list, then I don't see why you wouldn't have them.


----------



## digital_b

it may be because mine is hacked. but I will check that out right now.


----------



## jcricket

Are the USB ports USB 1.1 or USB 2.0. Just curious. 

And I haven't seen any detail about the rumors HMO will be coming. Will that include streaming between DirecTiVo? I'm primarily interested in the basic media sharing (PC/MAC music & pictures -> TiVo) and don't need web programming, but the in-house streaming feature would be nice.


----------



## digital_b

the usb to ethenet device I am using is the linksys 2.0 device mentioned several times on the other forum. its quite fast on transfer so I am assuming the ports are 2.0


----------



## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by jcricket _
> *Are the USB ports USB 1.1 or USB 2.0. Just curious.
> 
> And I haven't seen any detail about the rumors HMO will be coming. Will that include streaming between DirecTiVo? I'm primarily interested in the basic media sharing (PC/MAC music & pictures -> TiVo) and don't need web programming, but the in-house streaming feature would be nice. *


The ports are USB 2.0, however the driver base in previous versions was 1.1. So hopefully whenever they do enable the feature, they include an updated driver set.

As for the rumor threads... Look for the R10 thread: Intresting Screen Shot.


----------



## jb_wildcat

Can you be more specific about your rumor threads post? the R10 thread: Interesting screen shot?

thanks,
jb


----------



## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by jb_wildcat _
> *Can you be more specific about your rumor threads post? the R10 thread: Interesting screen shot?
> 
> thanks,
> jb *


Sure:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211177


----------



## mshap1507

I just called Direct TV to order the R10. The customer service rep said she can not guarantee which model will be shipped to me. She also said that they only ship out the 35 hour models, not 80 hours. If I want to buy the R10, I have to go to a retailer.


----------



## Jerw134

They will only _guarantee_ a 35 hour model. Some of the less intelligent reps think that means they *only* ship 35 hour models, but that is not the case.


----------



## rtransue

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *Yes out of the box it does that... no special trick or anything.
> 
> As for hexediting the backdoor code... not just yet, maybe in a few weeks... The wife approval level is dropping, as I have spent the last month with multiple Tivo's cracked open and all over the place. *


They have their way of letting us know when toy time is over, don't they...

(grin)

Richard


----------



## rtransue

> _Originally posted by bajamark _
> Remember, most great engineers once started as great installers! [/B]


Man, do I disagree with you on this one! I DID start out as a curious child, became an installer of many different types of systems, and later became a professional. In my 61 plus years, it is my humble opinion that ALL graduate engineers of any discipline should be required to complete a minimum of two years internship in practical applications of whatever their chosen discipline is before being eligible for professional licensing.

Just my humble opinion, you understand. (And everyone knows my opinions are very, very humble...(grin))

Richard


----------



## tbh999

I have one Question:

Does the 6.1 software eliminate the 137MB barrier?


----------



## ebonovic

Yes, the 6.1 software elimates the 137gb barrier.
I have one of my units running on a 160gb drive. 140ish hrs.

edit: mb -> gb... minor difference


----------



## Jerw134

Gigabytes guys, gigabytes!


----------



## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *Gigabytes guys, gigabytes! *


You say Tomato
I say Cucumber


----------



## mhallerbach

> _Originally posted by mshap1507 _
> *I just called Direct TV to order the R10. The customer service rep said she can not guarantee which model will be shipped to me. She also said that they only ship out the 35 hour models, not 80 hours. If I want to buy the R10, I have to go to a retailer. *


I am new to Directv, was ready to buy the 35hr DVR direct from DTV, which the best deal was going to be $99, with a $50 rebate. After doing some research, I got a 70hr R-10, with a Triple LNB dish, with the install, for $59.99(Most of that cost was the shipping), minus the $50.00 rebate, my net cost was $10 - from Rapidsatellite.com and they are sending me a free DVD player to boot as part of a promo. The box showed up 3 days after ordered , and a professional installer was there the following day taking down my Dish Network and replacing it with my Directv - total order/install process 4 days. Later in my research on this forum, I was hearing how everybody was having difficulty getting R-10s from Directv because they were just being released, but I got mine mid December no problem

I have found for both satellite systems and cell phone deals, online is the only way to go for pricing on the equipment, compared to dealing direct with the companies.

My 2 cents.


----------



## tbh999

> _Originally posted by tbh999 _
> *I have one Question:
> 
> Does the 6.1 software eliminate the 137MB barrier? *


 Oops, MB...GB, what's the difference.


----------



## MichaelK

> _Originally posted by leesweet _
> *Cabling isn't the issue. (Most phones that aren't VoIP use one pair of wires.) If you have a PBX that uses digital phones (this is in no way connected to VoIP, BTW!), normal analog modems connected to one of these lines can be and usually are damaged.
> 
> This note on the screen is a CYA in case someone tries to use these modems at work. If you get a dialtone from a normal $10 phone, it's fine for the TiVo. *


digital phone systems usually use higher voltages that can damage stuff intended for the lower voltages of analog systems.


----------



## aaronbca

I see a pretty definite difference in my R10 picture quality from my Series 1 Hughes box. Some channels are decent, but on others the pixelation/artifacting is horrendous, causing massive blurring. I've took the first R10 back, cuz the build quality was awful, and the frame of the unit was actually bent. I think I'm going to get one more and test it to see if it's any better, but it seems like that's just the way these look.


----------



## spyderelcd

I have just received my directv triple lnb dish ,a r10 and d10 receivers for directv from rapidsatellite.com for a total of $89.94 with a $50 rebate. Total cost $39.94. They will be by tomorrow for the install. I have read this whole thread and I would like to thank ebonovic and other members for the information you post. With that does anybody know if you can hook up an r10 any other way than a phone line? I have just swithed to VOIP and from what I've read here you can't use that for the phone line on the R10.


----------



## ebonovic

You can "possible" use VoIP. It is hit or miss with VoIP.

You could take it to a friends house to finish the setup (they don't have to have sat) or you could try the PPP Serial style of dialing (do a search on PPP Serial)


----------



## joeinma

To follow up on my R10 problem with the phone connection, I finally got it to dial in and make it's first test call which finished set up and allowed me to use the Tivo functions. However, the fix was funky and it's still having the problem unless I manually do the fix myself.

What happens is that when the R10 dials out, it's getting failed to connect during the dialing portion of the call. However, when it starts to dial, if I pick up the cordless phone in the room and turn it on, I can hear the until dialing and trying to connect. The call goes through ONLY when I am listening to the phone. It's weird. However, even that way, it may take 2 tries before it works.

I noticed in the system information screen, the dial in configuration line reads 000 TFA - 0 (something like that, I don't have the info in front of me)...meanwhile my DSR6000 which does not have a dialing problem has 000 TFA-1. Could this have something to do with it? Is there a way to change that?


----------



## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by joeinma _
> *TI noticed in the system information screen, the dial in configuration line reads 000 TFA - 0 (something like that, I don't have the info in front of me)...meanwhile my DSR6000 which does not have a dialing problem has 000 TFA-1. Could this have something to do with it? Is there a way to change that? *


No this is something different and controlled on the Server side. It is on our units for informationally / troubleshooting. It relates to what information server you are connecting to during the dial-in for the "TiVo" related uploads/downloads.


----------



## joeinma

Thanks for the response Earl! Here's another question for the board, does the ,401 code for daily code via the internet work with the R10? If I continue to have dial in problems via phone line, maybe it will work better via the net.


----------



## ebonovic

As of right now, no. That code doesn't appear to be recognized by the 6.1 software.

As I get a message that no dial-tone found. (Which is good, since I pulled the phone line during the test, and left the USB/network line in).


----------



## Wekiva

Just to add my experience. I just upgraded from HDVR2 to an R10 last week and am very happy. I see no difference in the picture quality and the menus are definitely faster for me. I do see a slight blurriness in the menus but not enough to be a problem.

So far so good.

( I just wanted others looking at getting R10 to know it's not all bad out here in R10 land)


----------



## enesch

I have been with Directv for about 6 months I have a DVR40 not hacked at all. Before sat tv I had cable with a SA Tivo One hacked with 2 hard drives and a nic, I liked all the things I could do and want them back on my Directivo unit, and I see I can hack the one I have currently. I am wondering if it would be better to get an r10 and wait for HMO, or to hack my current unit as is. Also if HMO option is to become an option on the Directv units will it only be offered to the new R10 units with 6.1 or will the older units with 3.1 be upgraded?


----------



## digital_b

if youre like me and want to be able to create dvds of recorded stuff youre better off hacking or having it hacked. dtv will never allow you to record stuff to dvd.


----------



## ebonovic

Right now there are NO official statements to if/when will get HMO.
Thus we don't know if it will ever come, be 6.1 specific, R10 specific.

So the only known thing for sure is that if you want HMO on your units, you will have to hack it to run v4 software, and the R10 can not run v4.


----------



## Bassplayer

*joeinma*

The probable reason why listening in on the handheld phone makes it work is that you turn on the handheld before you try to dial out. In the time the handheld is on before the dial-out, the tone returns to the steady dialtone.

I had a modem like this once in an old computer that would never dial out with the call-waiting beeps, so that's what I would do.


----------



## joeinma

> _Originally posted by Bassplayer _
> *joeinma
> 
> The probable reason why listening in on the handheld phone makes it work is that you turn on the handheld before you try to dial out. In the time the handheld is on before the dial-out, the tone returns to the steady dialtone.
> *


You're most likely right. While I would not pick up the phone until after the screen said "dialing" for about 10 seconds, when I did pick up, it was still a dial tone and then would dial and connect.

Verizon came Tuesday and added a new phone line (this is my in-laws home that we added an addition to) so that my wife and I have our own line in the addition. With this new line, the daily call is working fine now. Part of the problem may have been poor wiring by our electrician. I have a media panel in the basement and he took the other phone's line in the basement and connected a CAT5E cable to in and then to the panel. However, he left wires hanging everywhere and at the panel it looks like he connected the wires from the CAT5E to the wires of another CAT5E line and then ran that to the panel. Where he connected the two lines together, he just wrapped tape around the whole bunch of wires. The Verizon guy fixed all of that for me, matching up the proper wires and then crimping some type of connector on to keep the wires together.


----------



## barnburner

First time Tivo user. Just got a R10 a week and a half ago.
I live in a rural area, so they ordered a toll free number to use for my tivo unit.
I got the message from direct-tv saying the number was authorized - but -
when I go into the phone setup - it still shows the local phone number, which is a long distance call for me.
My local phone company is the directtv provider in this area, and they say they THINK that the number was changed automatically, and the old number showing in the setup doesnt matter.
Anybody know if they are telling the truth or not?
I don't want to have to wait a month to find out that they were wrong and then have to argue with them over the long distance charges.

Thanks


----------



## ebonovic

This would be a first... 
I don't think the DirecTivos have that ability...

I would actually start a new thread on this, to garner more discussion.

My recommendation would be to pull the phone cord.
And only hook it up once a month, and force the call in at that point to the closest number.


----------



## leesweet

They would have to add the special tollfree to the access number list for your areacode, no? I've not heard of that, either...


----------



## cktb2793

> _Originally posted by digital_b _
> *if youre like me and want to be able to create dvds of recorded stuff youre better off hacking or having it hacked. dtv will never allow you to record stuff to dvd. *


Or you could just hook your R10 (or any DTivo) to a standalone DVD recorder....the same way you would hook it to a VCR.......I do that and record shows onto DVD all the time.


----------



## leesweet

Well, the usual point is you want 480p or better DVDs, not 480i. The output through non-component/non-HDMI is only 480i.


----------



## nabsltd

> _Originally posted by leesweet _
> *Well, the usual point is you want 480p or better DVDs, not 480i.*


Since the DVD spec is for at most 480/60i, it's not that big a deal. Even if DVDs could do true 480/30p (which they can't), it's not that much better. 480/60p is smoother, but there is no way a DVD-Video could even dream of storing this format.


----------



## barnburner

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *This would be a first...
> I don't think the DirecTivos have that ability...
> 
> I would actually start a new thread on this, to garner more discussion.
> 
> My recommendation would be to pull the phone cord.
> And only hook it up once a month, and force the call in at that point to the closest number. *


I followed you suggestion and started a new thread, and sure nuf - I got the answer.
There is a special toll free number for use by dealers and customers that don't have local numbers. Apparently new customers can use it, but after a couple of weeks if Direct-tv hasn't approved them, it won't work anymore for them.
You just go into the phone setup and search for access numbers, scroll to the bottom and click on " none of the above", and it gives you the option for the toll free number.
Here is the thread.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=217771


----------



## NJStealth

Dumb question once you activate the 30 second skip how do you use it?


----------



## mmduf

I punched in the code (s-p-s3-0-s) and when I use the -> button during playback, it goes forward 30 minutes. What gives?


----------



## NJStealth

I punched in the code got 3 beeps and don't notice anything different. Could someone please help me out on how to use this feature.


----------



## dartman1965

why not just hit your fast forward??


----------



## Theatermax

R10 Getting slower

The R10 is turning out to be a real nightmare. Besides the blurry menus the speed of the unit has gone form decent to horrible.

Now that it's been running for 2 weeks. It drags it feet terribly.


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## paulfife

> _Originally posted by mmduf _
> *I punched in the code (s-p-s3-0-s) and when I use the -> button during playback, it goes forward 30 minutes. What gives? *


Were you fast-forwarding at the time? The -> button will still function as a skip to tick when fast-forwarding or rewinding. If it is skipping to the end you didn't enter the code right (you will hear 3 beeps).


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## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by Theatermax _
> *R10 Getting slower
> 
> The R10 is turning out to be a real nightmare. Besides the blurry menus the speed of the unit has gone form decent to horrible.
> 
> Now that it's been running for 2 weeks. It drags it feet terribly. *


Try restarting the unit. (From the menu, select restart).

I have an upgraded 160gb hard drive in mine, and have nearly 120 hours of recorded material on the drive, and a couple dozen SeasonPass/wishlist items.

And the unit is still clicking along very quickly.


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## jberger

Anyone else having problems with the level of "hiss" on the digtal outputs of the R10?

I picked up 2 r10's to replace standalone TiVo's, the R10's seems to have a TON of background hiss when using the digital output. I've compared the R10's digital output with a Samsung HDTV D* box and the R10 is significantly louder. 

Any ideas?


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## dartman1965

I have had our R10 since the 12th and have no hiss. the guide is a little slower than our old regular receiver( no DVR TIVO) though. I can live with this. I am torn whether to upgrade our hardrive or get a video capture card;usb 2.0 or wirefire; and run it to our PC DVD burner. Who knows how the picture quality will be??...
This is our first Tivo anything and we LOVE it!
Please feel free to email me at [email protected] with any input about the Hardrive -VS- connect to a Burner info, Thanks!
PS - I have my optical running straight to our Receiver and the S-video running straight to our TV(monitor)


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## ebonovic

Dartman,
The USB ports on the DirecTivos are not functional for anything at this time. (Aka you can't hook an external hard drive, network card, or dvd burner to the R10)

Right now the R10 will initilize a network connection, however there is no software functionality though with the unit so it can't do anything.

So the only option you would have is a video capture device into your PC.

Do a search on the folder for DVD Burning, or Video Capture for more details.


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## skofarrell

> _Originally posted by DrEvil _
> *You would have to get a mounting bracket from www.weaknees.com or www.9thtee.com to add a second drive to any of the series 2 based DirecTiVo's. *


And having tried both, the Weaknees bracket blows the 9thtee/ptvuprade one away.


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## Vaj

> _Originally posted by Theatermax _
> *R10 Getting slower
> 
> The R10 is turning out to be a real nightmare. Besides the blurry menus the speed of the unit has gone form decent to horrible.
> 
> Now that it's been running for 2 weeks. It drags it feet terribly. *


Yeah, I just had mine installed last Saturday and the "grid guide" already moves really slow--so much so you have to wait for it to redraw as you scroll. I guess I could turn off some of my season passes. It could also be because it was recording most of this time, but I think it may be typical. Really the technology is advanced enough that they should allow a RAM upgrade as I'm sure this is either due to low RAM or disk activity of some king (e.g. recording).

-Vaj


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## Vaj

> _Originally posted by dartman1965 _
> *I have had our R10 since the 12th and have no hiss. the guide is a little slower than our old regular receiver( no DVR TIVO) though. I can live with this. I am torn whether to upgrade our hardrive or get a video capture card;usb 2.0 or wirefire; and run it to our PC DVD burner. Who knows how the picture quality will be??...
> This is our first Tivo anything and we LOVE it!
> Please feel free to email me at [email protected] with any input about the Hardrive -VS- connect to a Burner info, Thanks!
> PS - I have my optical running straight to our Receiver and the S-video running straight to our TV(monitor) *


I can highly recommend simply buying a standalone DVD recorder and then connecting it to the S-Video outputs on the R10. Excellent quality in video and sound.

-Vaj


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## dartman1965

Thanks Vaj for the info! Do you recomend any particular DVD recorder(stand alone)?
and I assume you used the red and white RCA for the audio?
will probably be picking one up on Friday!
Dartman


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## Vaj

> _Originally posted by dartman1965 _
> *Thanks Vaj for the info! Do you recomend any particular DVD recorder(stand alone)?
> and I assume you used the red and white RCA for the audio?
> will probably be picking one up on Friday!
> Dartman *


While I cannot recommend any specific brand, I waited till the after-X-Mas sales and got a Magnovox MRV-64017 (which is actually a Phillips) for 170 USD and it works great.

What I liked about this model was that it had composite jacks also on the front panel. This allows you to easily digitize all old video (say via a VCR or camcorder). Then if you further want to process this stuff it is easy to import these DVD's into your PC.

Record times on a single layer DVD is anywhere from 1 hour to 8 hours. I usually use the 2.5 hour setting and cannot tell the difference between this and the original.

Yes, I used the r/w RCA cables for the audio. I run the cables back out and into a switch box. This switch box then sends the S-Video directly to the TV. The second output on the R10 I run directly to another switch input on the switch box, that way I don't need to rely on the DVD recorder being on, set to "monitor", etc.


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by Vaj _
> *Really the technology is advanced enough that they should allow a RAM upgrade as I'm sure this is either due to low RAM or disk activity of some king (e.g. recording).*


The problem is shoddy programming, plain and simple. The hardware is powerful enough to handle snapping a guide on-screen. It's really not _that_ hard of a task.


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## Budget_HT

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *The problem is shoddy programming, plain and simple. The hardware is powerful enough to handle snapping a guide on-screen. It's really not that hard of a task. *


The following is my perception of the discussions regarding the painfully slow user interface (at times) on the TiVo boxes. My comments apply to a large group of forum posters, not just to the quoted poster above.

These are strictly my observations and opinions--no more and no less.

I am amazed at all of the so-called experts that pop up on this forum and explain precisely what is wrong with the TiVo design and then describe exactly how to fix it.

I would think that if the problem is that easily solved, TiVo would have done it by now, at least on the stand-alone TiVos if DirecTV did not cooperate and allow it on the DirecTiVo units.

I am guessing that these self-proclaimed experts have little or no experience with an architecture like a TiVo unit, with real-time video encoding (SA only), video file management and real time recording and decoding using a mix of a main CPU with its application software and some dedicated hardware components that are better suited for the "heavyweight" work.

That said, I still don't see anyone's example of a superior product with a faster user interface that actually works as well and is as user-friendly as a TiVo.

Don't get me wrong, I too am frustrated with the UI delays, but I don't understand the details of the TiVo implementation enough to imply that the fixes are easy.


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by Budget_HT _
> *I am guessing that these self-proclaimed experts have little or no experience with an architecture like a TiVo unit*


Do you? Are you a programmer at Tivo? I'm guessing the answer to both of these questions is *no*, and since that's the case, you're no better than the people you're complaining about.

The Tivo is *by far* the slowest STB on the market. Everyone else can do it better, and Tivo can't. I don't care what you want to blame it on, but it makes no difference to me whether the guide is slow because of the architecture or because the programmers suck, it's still SLOW. Quit being a Tivo apologist and realize what the real problem is.


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## ebonovic

Please take the architecture discussion outside this particular thread... Please.

I don't want to see this thread locked...


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## CsrLiz344

Back to the review of the R10: I had one, and purposely got another one. I like them, I don't find them slow, no blurry menu, no pixelated picture, as good as my Philips was. We all know by now they won't be implementing HMO or anything on them, but that's ok, when D* releases their own, then I'll figure out what I want to do. For now, these work fine.


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## finaldiet

I just had a free R10 installed last night. It seens to run great, in fact, I thought it ran faster than my 704. It does't have all of the programming yet but I figured it would take a day or two. Looks like your going to be shoveling again this week-end. Thanks for all the good info. I for one appreciate it.


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## mhallerbach

> _Originally posted by jberger _
> *Anyone else having problems with the level of "hiss" on the digtal outputs of the R10?
> 
> I picked up 2 r10's to replace standalone TiVo's, the R10's seems to have a TON of background hiss when using the digital output. I've compared the R10's digital output with a Samsung HDTV D* box and the R10 is significantly louder.
> 
> Any ideas? *


I have noticed it as well. Just recently hooked up the Digital Optical cable, and now it does hiss a lot(Dolby and non-dolby digital programs). I have not played with it, but was thinking it was maybe one of my settings in my Sony A/V receiver(STR-545). When using the RCAs I didn't have a problem.


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## mhallerbach

> _Originally posted by Rkkeller _
> *Still no Showcases on my R-10 and its been over 2 weeks now.
> 
> Anyone else ?
> 
> Rich *


My R-10 was installed Dec 23rd, and just in the last week or so, the showcases started showing up. Pretty cool feature, but it took awhile. Maybe its in one of the latest software upgrades; my R-10 has been upgrading every day or so.

The showcases should come in their own sweet time.


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by mhallerbach _
> *my R-10 has been upgrading every day or so.*


What? Are you talking about the nightly "service downloads" that appear on your screen? Those aren't upgrades.


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## mhallerbach

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *What? Are you talking about the nightly "service downloads" that appear on your screen? Those aren't upgrades. *


I'm talking about the phone call the system makes every day or so to update the DVR service(and Guides) - info is under your phone settings. Whatever you want to call it, now I have a showcase option in my Directv Menu which I didn't have a week ago - sounds like an upgrade to me. Its also my understanding that any newer software updates would be pushed through this service as well.

mh


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## Jerw134

The phone calls are just to upload your usage info to Tivo. Software upgrades only happen every few months, and the phone call only activates the upgrade.

Showcases take a while to show up because DirecTV doesn't broadcast them all the time.


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## ebonovic

Actually, Software Updates and Guide Updates, come down from the Sat.

However, a phone call is needed to trigger the install of the software update.


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## killerdc

So if I havent had my TIVO hooked up to the phone in 390 days, as mine hasnt, Im missing a ton of upgrades? lol 

On the matter of the R10, is 99 bucks at circuit city a good buy?

Also, is there any advantage to going to a series 2 over the older style. Ive had my tivo for about 15 months and all i use it for is to record my primetime shows. I only use the season pass manager and record on demand, I dont let the current tivo pick and choose what to record, and I wouldnt do it with the new one, so that being said,,,,,
I would like a Tivo box with digital coax instead of fiber optic. Are there any of those?


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## finaldiet

Just call csr. They'll probably give you one free. Thats how I got mine. In fact, thats how my two son-in-laws are getting theirs. Give it a try. You don't receive if you don't ask! Welcome to the forum!


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## Rcrew

Do we have a definitive answer on what the R10 will do after 30 days of not being connected to a phone line?


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## ebonovic

Not yet...

I have about another 2 weeks to go, as I haven't had a land line for 18 days now.


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## Rcrew

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *Not yet...
> 
> I have about another 2 weeks to go, as I haven't had a land line for 18 days now. *


Thanks. I guess I should just pull the phone from mine and start the clock.

I'm not sure where I got the idea that R10s would act differently after 30 days, but that is my impression.


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## ebonovic

Someone posted a week or so ago, and said that after 30 days his unit stopped recording.

I don't remember the title of the thread though.


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## Rcrew

Thanks to some deft searching by csrliz344, she came up with derekjsmith's thread talking about no phone on an R10.

However, that thread began on 1-9, talking about 30 days of no phone. He must have gotten a very early release of an R10.


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## mhallerbach

> _Originally posted by Rcrew _
> *Thanks to some deft searching by csrliz344, she came up with derekjsmith's thread talking about no phone on an R10.
> 
> However, that thread began on 1-9, talking about 30 days of no phone. He must have gotten a very early release of an R10. *


Im not sure what I missed -what is the big deal about leaving it plugged in, so everything stays up to date. If you don't have a phone jack nearby, I'm sure one of those $30 phone extenders that plug into an electrical outlet and give you a phone jack would work(I used one on my Dish Network at my old house).

I have an R-10 since December and leave it plugged in all the time - It connects every day or so and everythings up to date.

The only problem would really be for people who live in houses with very old phone wiring, which may not work well with a modem.


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## ebonovic

Actually the problems are not really problem, but choices people make.

To save money, people are choosing to go land-line less (aka no phone service in the home) and just using their wireless.
Others are selecting VoIP solutions...

Right now, DTivos, since they have no native option to use a broadband connection to make their "calls", they can't dial out at all.

VoIP is a hit or miss proposition.

In *MY* case, when "trying" to go to AT&T VoIP that is "supposed" to work with TiVo, there has been a MAJOR screw up that has left me phoneless for 3 weeks now.. And looking at another 2 weeks to get it back.


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## killerdc

The point is, there is no reason for me to have it hooked up at all times. I sure as hell am not running a phone cable from my living room to my kitchen(the nearest phone jack~35 feet), im not spending more money on this tivo, and im not paying the phone co. to come put a jack next to the tv. There shouldnt be any requirement to keep it plugged in. I like the TIVO i have now cause i dont have to have it hooked up.


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by mhallerbach _
> *what is the big deal about leaving it plugged in, so everything stays up to date.*


Some people don't like the idea of Tivo logging everything they do, including which buttons they press on the remote.


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## Rcrew

The biggest problem is folks using their TiVos in locations with no land line service.


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## CsrLiz344

I have both of mine plugged in, I don't care if they wanna know what I watch, not like I watch smut...lol.
Anyway, the one I have had the longest, a month, still makes daily calls, my Philips 704 was once every 7 or 8 days. I wonder if the R10 will ever go to that length, or stay every day.


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## Budget_HT

> _Originally posted by killerdc _
> *...I would like a Tivo box with digital coax instead of fiber optic. Are there any of those? *


You can buy optical to coax (digital) converters at Radio Shack.

Here is another example: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3


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## dslchiphead

> _Originally posted by Vaj _
> *Yeah, I just had mine installed last Saturday and the "grid guide" already moves really slow--so much so you have to wait for it to redraw as you scroll....*


I bought a R10 right before Christmas myself and had time to play with it. Before the R10 purchased, I own and use various Hughes DTV receivers and found them very reliable with solid features. I am going to miss the Hughes engineering in future receivers. I think the R10 looks cheap akin to a home brew kit. Anyway, I just discovered this forum tonight and the thread about the R10. I've been reading this long thread about it and found this spot to jump in with some comments.

Since this is my first adventure into TiVo/DVR, I have to say I am disappointed in the performance of the R10 and the lack of features for just using it as a DirecTV receiver to watch some live programming. I miss the SRS sound and the quick favorite channel menu for example.

With that aside, I too think the guide is so slow that it can take up to 3-4 seconds to compose a complete guide per page. Watching the guide blocks assemble randomly like a puzzle. Scrolling through the pages is so time consuming. Now of course I am comparing this to my other Hughes DTV receivers where their guides just appear and scroll effortlessly and with channel logos and program type color coding as well too! (another feature I miss)

Can someone explain why the guide composing is so slow? This is my biggest sore spot with the R10 and just eats at me when using the guide. It also sounds that all DirecTV DVRs suffers this fate. I would think the guide information would be cached or such. Someone I think mention that the guide information is stored on the disk. I am also surprise that this is not a big concern to anyone using the DirecTV DVR units. I guess everyone just uses it for recording and you know what you want to record. I would like to see more of a marriage between standalone DTV receivers and DVRs.

Thanks.

-Dave


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by dslchiphead _
> *I am also surprise that this is not a big concern to anyone using the DirecTV DVR units.*


The reason it doesn't seem like a big concern is because everyone has given up hope on ever getting a decent guide on the Tivo. I'm just hoping DirecTV's new NDS DVR and Ucentric HMC will have fast guides.

I personally can't stand the Tivo, but I put up with it because it's the best solution available. I can't wait for it to be replaced by something better.


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## mike1977

I like the other guide style better. List of channels on left side, the programming for the selected channel on the right.


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## dslchiphead

> _Originally posted by Jerw134 _
> *The reason it doesn't seem like a big concern is because everyone has given up hope on ever getting a decent guide on the Tivo. I'm just hoping DirecTV's new NDS DVR and Ucentric HMC will have fast guides.
> 
> I personally can't stand the Tivo, but I put up with it because it's the best solution available. I can't wait for it to be replaced by something better. *


Totally agree! With today's electronics, there is really no excuse for the lack of features in a DTV receiver and the performance of the DVR. I wondering if all systems that advertise as a TiVo, all systems software then must look and act the same per TiVo agreements. It's definitely a TiVo first and receiver second. Just look at the remote! Not even a button for your favorite channels.


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## dslchiphead

> _Originally posted by mike1977 _
> *I like the other guide style better. List of channels on left side, the programming for the selected channel on the right. *


I do too and use. Sorry if I was not clear on that.


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## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by dslchiphead _
> *Just look at the remote!*


Oh man, don't even get me started on that horrible thing. It's honestly the worst remote design I've ever seen in my life.


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## Shape

Huh. I've always loved the peanut. Of course, I've used one since we bought our 14 hour standalone box years ago.

Now I am using a Harmony 680 remote, but it is taking some getting used to.


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## Jerw134

If they'd just find a better place for the TV Power & TV Input buttons, that would go a long way in making the remote better. It still wouldn't be great, but certainly better.


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## tbh999

I think the first generation TiVo remote was better, it had fewer button that I don't use and was smaller so it was easier to get to all of the buttons without changing your grip. The *one* big gripe I have with the TiVo remote is that it's so damn symmetrical. I seem to pick it up backward half the time and get dumbfounded as to why it doesn't work. Of course I use my MX-500 remote most of the time (when my wife isn't hogging it).

Regarding the _slow_ guide. If you were to search this forum you would find that the slow guide has been an issue since the first DirecTivo's in 2000. The complaints went on for years, but most people here have given-up on beating that dead horse. I for the life of me don't understand why it's so slow, but it appears to be a systemic problem. I know that TiVo has worked on the code to improve the performance, but it's still much slower than a standard DirecTV box. That being said, most people with DirecTivo's don't watch very much TV live any more anyway.

And *dslchiphead*, last but not least, welcome to the Tivolution.


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## dslchiphead

> _Originally posted by tbh999 _... And *dslchiphead*, last but not least, welcome to the Tivolution.


Thank you very much. Much information to learn from here!


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## pileofmonkeycrap

Great thread! Been reading everything I can because I just got my D* hardware today, which includes two R10's, dish and regular receiver. I've been a Tivo user since the early days with my upgraded Philips PTV300. I think I bought that in Dec. 2000. 

Really looking forward to checking out the newer features of Tivo. Hope I'll like the switch to cable too. Saving a little money, but the higher price of my broadband will even that out. 

Anyone mind pointing me to info on what hacks, if any, are available for the R10? I wasn't expecting to get these units and did all my research last week on the hacks like Tivoweb and activating the USB ports on the other models with the older software. 

Thanks.


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## Jerw134

No hacks are available for the R10.


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## pileofmonkeycrap

Thanks for the reply. Just as well there's no hacks yet. Being new to D*, I'll have plenty to learn and check out. Plus I'm doing a major kitchen remodel right now and it would be tough to take out time for playing with the Tivo. Maybe when I'm done with the kitchen they'll be hacks available and the timing will be right.


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## tbh999

There are no specific hacks for the R10 yet, however, the hard drive upgrade still works (and Weeknees has already got a TwinBreeze kit out for it) and from what I understand the 137GB size limit has been lifted.


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## ppkeith

Okay...here's my situation that I need to figure out in the next 20 hours:

* I'm getting a DSL service in my apartment that's predicated on having a public phone line. The company loops the line in our telco room. So...that is to say that by Friday morning (unless I call and cancel), I'll have DSL with no phone service.

* I've ordered DirecTV with TiVo (through Best Buy) and they sold me the R10.
* Based upon what I've read there are several things in play here:
1. Initialization of service must be done over a land line.
2. USB-based networking off of the R10 box is a non-starter (doesn't work)

Is there ANYWAY to make the R10 work without a landline? 

If not, should I go back to Best Buy and see about getting the Hughes box I saw there? or should I cancel my DSL service, order conventional phoneline/DSL service and roll with my already-purchased R10?

I need brilliant, experienced users' comments. Can you tell I'm a novice?


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## ppkeith

I mean to type that the DSL is predicated on "NOT" having a landline through Ma Bell.


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## ebonovic

You have a few options:

1) Take it to a friend's to activate it. After this point, that will work fine after that. However, I am current testing to see if that is true with the R10.

2) Make and use the PPP Serial cable (to a search on PPP). You would basically then hook your DTivo to your computer, for phone call purposes. The computer then makes connection over your broadband.

3) Go with the conventional style DSL

4) Return the unit, and go with any other model other then the R10. Then install v4 software on it (basically hack it). With v4 you have the ability to run scripts that will make DTivo think that it has called out. (Amongst other features).


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## ppkeith

Thanks for the response, Earl. I decided to go with your option 3, last night. I'm a neophyte when it comes hacking those things. I don't have any local friends who could come over and hand-hold me through it so I decided not to risk it. 

What I find disconcerting is that D* sells these Hughes R10s (at BB) in 2005 and they aren't network-capable. That just seems asinine to me. Surely the technology is there! Are they just trying to protect themselves for various reasons or is it a cost issue?

phil


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## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by ppkeith _
> *Are they just trying to protect themselves for various reasons or is it a cost issue?
> *


We (us here on the fourm) are not sure which it is... Both have valid arguments, of which none of them make practical sense to us...

There are a bunch of thread discussing it...


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## Vaj

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *The R10 (and all DirecTivos for that matter), can only record what DirecTV sends them in Digital format. They don't have any inputs for any other signal (the HD unit has an antenna though, for digital OTA).
> 
> Also you can not transfer programs from your DVR to your PC (without hacking).
> 
> So your best bet would to pickup a digital bridge device (Dazzle, Pinnacle, DV Camcorder) they range from $60 to several hundred depending on which way you go.
> 
> You would then hook your VCR to your PC basically and do what you are looking to do.
> 
> (The SA Tivo's don't have any offical DVR to PC video transfer either).
> 
> Yes you can use that free port on your multiswitch for your line. *


By far the easiest way, is to simply replace your VCR with a standalone DVD recorder. Use the S-Video outputs on the R10. You can get them now for around 150-200 bucks. I recommend getting one with jacks on the front, as this will allow you to record your old VHS stuff and camcorder tapes to DVD.

Once it's on DVD, it can be easily extracted for use on a Mac or PeeCee.


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## mhallack

I'll add to the reviews of the R10, here is my short history of DTivos:

-Couple of years ago traded in my Phillips SA Tivo and bought two Hughes HDVR2 (think same as SD-DVR40). They had the audio bug, where now and then when you paused it took eight seconds for the audio to come back. Recently one of these units had its hard drive lock up and it died.

-Bought a Hughes DVR80 to replace the dead SD-DVR40 a few months ago. It does have the black & white bug, but usually performs well. Love the space upgrade, the audio bug has been corrected.

-Moved to a new house and bought a R10 in the past couple of weeks. The R10's picture is not as clear as the Hughes units, sometimes its fine and other times its pretty grainy or has additional artifacts. Its still generally better than cable. Love the software upgrade with folders. Have seen the sluggishness some have spoken of, but generally it is faster than the Hughes units.

-Bought a Sony KDF42WE655 (42 inch LCD projection HD), but still refuse to purchase the HD-DVR...don't mind all the bugs in units that cost less than $100, but at $1000 they need to fix this stuff.


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## cygnet74

> _Originally posted by killerdc _
> *The point is, there is no reason for me to have it hooked up at all times. I sure as hell am not running a phone cable from my living room to my kitchen(the nearest phone jack~35 feet), im not spending more money on this tivo, and im not paying the phone co. to come put a jack next to the tv. There shouldnt be any requirement to keep it plugged in. I like the TIVO i have now cause i dont have to have it hooked up. *


 my directv installer also installed a phone jack for me. i didnt even ask.


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## trbarnes

I am new to the forum and something tells me this has been brought up about a million times so I apologize in advance....
I have had a series 1 tivo since they first came out and when I saw that Series 2 tivo's had usb ports for networking I got excited.... but.... I went for the R10's because they had the DirecTv receiver's built in.... okay.. my mistake..... is there anyway to get these puppy's on my home network? All I really want to do is share saved programs between the two DVR's but it seems that DirecTv has not activated the USB ports to allow this.... Any help ????
Thanks!!


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## Jerw134

There is currently no way to hack the R10 to enable networking. You're SOL for now.


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## trbarnes

now that is really enough to pi$$ a person off isn't it????
Do you think that they will enable this option soon?
What if I were to happen to have (of course hypethical in nature ) a Linux guru at my disposal?
They have pi$$ed me off to the point (based on misleading statements on their webiste) that I am ready to "open er' up" and go for it at this point...

Thanks for the reply!!!


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## ebonovic

Which part of their website is Misleading? Just curious, as no where do they mention networking, broadband support, ect...

You could have a linux guru at your disposal, and it probably still won't help.
The amazing experts that have come up with the previous "hacks", at this point are still working on the 6.1 software and the R10... At this point, they haven't released anything yet. 

IMHO... we won't see much until 6.x is release to the other Series 2s.


----------



## Rcrew

Hey Earl, sorry if I missed this in another post, what's up with your phone connection? Have you exceeded the 30 days without issue? 

I did unplug my R10, but I haven't even seen a nag screen yet.


----------



## ebonovic

Haven't clipped it yet.

Got my 21 day notice, Saturday... So soon... very soon.


----------



## trbarnes

Hey Earl - the part of their website that is misleading is where they talk about the multi-room viewing. They provide the step by step procedure... first have your homenetwork up and running, then look at their recommended wired/wireless cards (USB in this case), then plug them in, then go to TivoOnline and setup your account (name each of your DVR's), go to the Settings/Phone & Network area to grab your IP address and bam, your ready to share between DVR"s....
They tell you requirements for all of this to work, Tivo Series 2, what the desktop o/s must be for the Tivo Desktop etc.... but no where in this section do they discuss that DirecTV Tivo units are not supported.

Now before everyone jumps on this - there is a section on their website where they say these units are not supported but it is only referenced with the TivoToGo feature. Nothing related to the Mult-room viewing capabilities. 

That is where I say the misleading part is. If they explicitly state it on the TivoToGo feature then they should do the same for the Multi-Room viewing.

I could get real nasty here with them because since these units are co-branded by DirecTV and Tivo they are liable. Not to mention that I purchased them from Circuity City where if I try to return them now they will charge me a 15% restocking fee since they have been opened. Now, who really thinks DirecTV or Tivo plans on re-imbursing me for that???

I have already started the research and escalation process within their corporate halls. I plan on raising a little cain here to at least try and get a product roadmap from these guys. I have a feeling it won't be a good outcome since DirecTV has already announced that they are going to be producing their own version of these units soon and probably be dropping the Tivo brand.... Still not right so I'll cause as much discomfort as possible. 

My only choice now is to wait... or return the units and then go out and buy seperate DirecTV receivers and standalone TIVO units. The ones I replace were the Sony SAT60 combo units and they were both on a death bed (reboot constantly and modems bad....)...

I cannot think of any other options - can you?

Any recommendations on standalone DTV receivers?

Thanks again


----------



## paulfife

> _Originally posted by trbarnes _
> *I could get real nasty here with them because since these units are co-branded by DirecTV and Tivo they are liable. Not to mention that I purchased them from Circuity City where if I try to return them now they will charge me a 15% restocking fee since they have been opened. Now, who really thinks DirecTV or Tivo plans on re-imbursing me for that???*


The primary branding is DirecTV, which means they control the feature set. It sounds like you didn't consult DirecTV, even though they are the ones who are collecting the TiVo fee, and sell the boxes. You didn't notice that tivo.com refers to DirecTV's website for information? They also explicitly state that the DirecTV DVR does not support the home media features (which includes multi-room viewing).

You should also be aware there are advantages of the DirecTV DVR over a standalone, like better recording quality, digital sound, two tuners, that for many of us far override the advantages of HMO and networking.


----------



## trbarnes

Oh I understand completely the branding structure between DirecTV and Tivo. I also know what to expect from DirecTV in the future based on their recent announcement. Well as far as consulting with DirecTV.... I could really go into a long esoteric conversation here but about the only mechanism they provide is via telephone (wake up and smell the roses of customer support... it is 2005 you know???). And what I did was go to their website and use their (let me bold and underline that one) Home Media and Networking Guide. Read it? There is one very small side note of mentioning about the DirecTV Tivo unit. Let me provide it to you.... "Some models of the DirecTV DVR with Tivo service also have USB ports, but they are not currently active"..... Okay, I probably should have seen this as a red flag but give me a break - if they are not supported then they should say so in the requirements section!!! That is just pi$$ poor documentation.
So, yes.... there is a "side-note" mention - not a hard line or actual statement under the requirements section though. Any hardware or software company knows how to explicitly state these issues. And other sections of their website have the same inconsistencies, some sections mention it (like under the TivoToGo section) others.... do not. For that fact look at their website where they list all these new Tivo Online features.... They don't even categorize everything under the HMO brand. You have to find that guide and definition on the right hand sideline.... Very poorly done. So, yes I am venting but it is all accurate.

I do appreciate your advantages that you point out. I did not realize the quality issue. Unfortunately I cannot get my 2 tuners to work right now (totally new issue there... ), something with my multiplexer that doesn't make sense.... I'll look around here for answers.

Thanks!!
Tom


----------



## Jonathan_S

> _Originally posted by trbarnes _
> *Well as far as consulting with DirecTV.... I could really go into a long esoteric conversation here but about the only mechanism they provide is via telephone (wake up and smell the roses of customer support... it is 2005 you know???). And what I did was go to their website and use their (let me bold and underline that one) Home Media and Networking Guide. Read it? There is one very small side note of mentioning about the DirecTV Tivo unit.*


 _emphasis mine_
But the key point is you went to TiVo's website to look for information about a DirecTV DVR, admittedly one that is based on TiVo software.

If you had gone to DirecTV's website you could have found the information about the capabilities of the DTiVos, and they would have stated that the USB ports were reserved for future use and wouldn't have made any mention of Home Media and Networking, since those units don't have that ability.


----------



## paulfife

> _Originally posted by trbarnes _
> *Well as far as consulting with DirecTV.... I could really go into a long esoteric conversation here but about the only mechanism they provide is via telephone (wake up and smell the roses of customer support... it is 2005 you know???). *


Hmm, I thought they had e-mail support at well? Plenty of others on this forum have contacted them through this method and gotten responses (usually canned ones, mind you, however, I'm sure you would have gotten the info you needed).

Too bad you didn't get on this forum before purchasing.


----------



## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by trbarnes _
> *
> ....
> 
> I could get real nasty here with them because since these units are co-branded by DirecTV and Tivo they are liable. Not to mention that I purchased them from Circuity City where if I try to return them now they will charge me a 15% restocking fee since they have been opened. Now, who really thinks DirecTV or Tivo plans on re-imbursing me for that???
> 
> I have already started the research and escalation process within their corporate halls. I plan on raising a little cain here to at least try and get a product roadmap from these guys. ...
> 
> My only choice now is to wait... or return the units and then go out and buy seperate DirecTV receivers and standalone TIVO units. The ones I replace were the Sony SAT60 combo units and they were both on a death bed (reboot constantly and modems bad....)...
> 
> I cannot think of any other options - can you?
> 
> *


As others have pointed out, TiVo.com's website is not Extremely clear, that basically, if you are going with a DirecTivo... Stop now, and go to DirecTV's website for details.

With that said.

One option, is to get non-R10's. Say the DSR-704.
And install the v4 TiVo software on it. Then you will get the feature set you where looking for.

But this is more of a discussion for another thread.

Please let us know if your raising hell results in something above and beyond what we have been doing for the last couple years... Since the day HMO was announced by TiVo... We have been clammering with DirecTV to turn it on our systems..

Good luck.


----------



## trbarnes

I'll skip all the BS and thoughts about some of the irrelevant comments people have made to my posts, but I appreciate your cander and preciseness Earl...

Net net... are you all telling me that this is a DirecTV and not a Tivo issue?

I was lead to believe something different, so I apologize for any conflicts.

If this is definitely a DirecTV issue then I can take a different approach.
I haven't looked into this yet but does anyone know who the manufacturer of the R10 unit is? I realize it has the DTV brand but who actually manufacturers it? One last question.... To the best of all of yours knowledge, is it DirecTV that is "restricting/controlling" the HMO features from being enabled?

I appreciate the responses as this can definitely give me some more leverage..... I shall not give up on this one ;-)

Thanks again - Tom


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by trbarnes _
> *does anyone know who the manufacturer of the R10 unit is?*


Thomson/RCA


> _Originally posted by trbarnes _
> *is it DirecTV that is "restricting/controlling" the HMO features from being enabled?*


Yes. Why? Who knows.


----------



## ebonovic

As Jerw posted:

Yes, it is most definently DirecTV... As pre-R10, we can run the same software version that is on the TiVo non-combo units. And have HMO. (granted you have to "hack" it a bit, but the physical hardware fully supports it).

DirecTV has never given us a definently reason Why they don't support.
Some think it is $$$ related to support of home networks, others think it is $$$ related to the Tivo Software contract, others relate it to DirecTV's fear of people improperly using the digital signal... 

Which ever it is, it is DirecTV's control.
If Tivo had their way, they would have it on our units as it only helps them in promoting their HMO feature set...

There are hundreds of threads that discuss this in more detail... Usually daily one starts... So before this review thread becomes one... To wrap this up...

The R10 is a new product that can't be hack to run HMO/MRV, at this time. DirecTV has not announced any support for HMO/MRV nor have they announced that it will never be suppoted.


----------



## Theatermax

So I guess the R10 and all the Tivo boxes for Direct TV are done..

The NDS solution is final and they will ship the R15 shortly.. I guess they dont' want to pay for Tivo LIcensing anymore.


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by Theatermax _
> *The NDS solution is final and they will ship the R15 shortly.*


Where did you get this information from?


----------



## Theatermax

This came from Direct TV guys when I was at the show last month.. I thought this was regular info now.. The NDS solutions are very nice and years ahead of Tivo. The Media solution box with Cat 5 media boxes in each room is an NDS solution. 4 HD tuners in the main box including the NDS recorder software..

Tivo is is deep yogurt. If Direct TV makes up 75% of Tivo sales, they are about to have a quarter beyond bad !


----------



## mishagray

> _Originally posted by Theatermax _
> *This came from Direct TV guys when I was at the show last month.. I thought this was regular info now.. The NDS solutions are very nice and years ahead of Tivo. The Media solution box with Cat 5 media boxes in each room is an NDS solution. 4 HD tuners in the main box including the NDS recorder software..
> 
> Tivo is is deep yogurt. If Direct TV makes up 75% of Tivo sales, they are about to have a quarter beyond bad ! *


This is NOT a NDS solution. It's made by a company called Ucentric. It was shown at CES in 2004 also, but in the VOOM booth.

Ucentric was just purchased by Motorola.

NDS is shipping a DirecTivo replacement. I would not call it "years ahead". It's a rather evoluionary product.


----------



## Theatermax

Fraid you are wrong.. The Solution I am speakign of was displayed in the Direct TV booth on the right side. It was entirely a NDS solution as the NDS guys spent 30 minutes with us explainging the workings of it..


----------



## mishagray

> _Originally posted by Theatermax _
> *Fraid you are wrong.. The Solution I am speakign of was displayed in the Direct TV booth on the right side. It was entirely a NDS solution as the NDS guys spent 30 minutes with us explainging the workings of it.. *


Yes. I was there also. There were 2 systems on display at the CES booth.

One was a PVR box. No HD support. No multi-room viewing. That's the box from NDS.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2004-11-29-dvr_x.htm

It will be out in the middle of the year. Maybe even earlier.

The other was the multi-room setup. That box was created by Ucentric.

http://www.forbes.com/prnewswire/fe...wire200501061306PR_NEWS_B_NWT_SF_SFTH011.html
http://www.ucentric.com/index.php?news/mentions/145

They SAID it will be out before x-mas, but most people believe we won't see it until 1Q 2006.


----------



## ironsline

Ok Guys,
I am on Direct TV and was going to go out tomorrow and get a R10. By what I read by you guys I may want to wait for a newer R15 or something like that. What is better, to get the R10 with the shortcomings that it has or wait.


----------



## mishagray

> _Originally posted by ironsline _
> *Ok Guys,
> I am on Direct TV and was going to go out tomorrow and get a R10. By what I read by you guys I may want to wait for a newer R15 or something like that. What is better, to get the R10 with the shortcomings that it has or wait. *


If you are talking about the NDS box... I don't know if its worth the wait.

There are FEW features that the NDS box have that the DirecTivo doesn't:
It supports some of the new "interactive" channels (MIX channels). These don't seem that interesting to me to be honest. But you may be able to get the local weather displayed on a channel.

It uses a DirecTV like guide, that's actually fast. The Tivo's have a DirecTV-grid guide setup, but it's way too slow. Most people just change the guide settings and the use Tivo guide setup, which I like better than the grid anyways. It's a better design for people who don't watch much live TV.

The box I saw at CES had component video output. I believe it just outputs 480p. That should show a "slight" improvement in video quality. But not so dramatic to offset other issues.

However I didn't get a chance to check the overall user interface of the NDS box. IE: The usability factor. We already now that the Tivo scores very high in this department - it's both easy and powerful.

I'm skeptical about the NDS box meeting the Tivo's simpler design. But I will give it a chance. The NDS box looks far more evolutionary.

The Home Media Center is the other new PVR coming from DirecTV, but it probably won't be available for a year. So I wouldn't wait.


----------



## ebonovic

For $99 (or less)... You will get more then your money's worth by the time any NDS or HMC units are available.

IMHO


----------



## mshap1507

This may be a dumb question, but what is NDS?

Thanks,

Mark


----------



## ironsline

Thanks EB and Mis... Being new I wanted to see if it was really worth even $99 geting the R10. Looking at all of the threads all everyone talks about is the slow stuff and fuzzy pictures. I guess I will dive right in and get the R10 tomorrow.


----------



## Theatermax

Ahhh Ucentric , you are right , Thanks for that..

Hey, The R10's we have are getting slow slow slow.. Ther are fast out of the gate and now after 2 weeks of storage they are crawling..

What is next for DVR's ?? I guess just the R15 ? Anyone else going to be doing boxes ?


----------



## cheerioboy26

> _Originally posted by mshap1507 _
> *This may be a dumb question, but what is NDS?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Mark *


NDS is a sister company to DirecTV - both majority owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. They have a DVR in the UK that they will be selling to DirecTV (similar in functionality) in 2005.

http://www.nds.com/

The XTV DVR:

http://www.nds.com/personal_tv/personal_tv.html


----------



## Rkkeller

Why don't we start a new thread on all this as none of it has anything to do with "A review of the R10" which is the heading ?

Also I have had my R10 for about 3 months now, 98 SP's and about 20 WL's and its still WAY faster than my Philips DirecTiVo in every aspect. People just forget how slow the older units were. My Philips is in the bedroom and every night I'm like "man this thing is slow" as I use the R10 all the time in the living room.


Rich


----------



## ROB-USA

WoW...

Thanks ebonovic for the time and effort you put into the review.

Rob


----------



## rcfisher

I bought a R10 in Dec, I love it, but I was having trouble with the phone line connecting. Direct TV sent me a DVR120 when they said they would send me the same model I had bought, (R10).
Would anyone happen to know witch one is better?

R Fisher


----------



## Jerw134

The DVR120 is better. Keep it.


----------



## ebonovic

Based on size: the DVR120 is better, as it will give you about 30 more hours.

From a hardware design/quality point of view. Again, the DVR120, as it was built before the build cost was reduced for the R10. (Differen MOBO design and lower quality level of some of the pieces).

From a speed point of view: The r10 is quicker
From a feature set point of view: The r10 has 6.1 thus has folders.

Note: the DVR120 should get an upgraded to 6.2 in the next month or so.

From a "hacking" point of the view, the DVR120 is, the R10 is not at this point.


----------



## rcfisher

Are you saying that I will be able to upgrade my 120 to 6.2 or are you saying that the new 120 coming out will be upgraded?


----------



## Jerw134

> _Originally posted by rcfisher _
> *Will I be able to upgrade the DVR 120 to 6.2? and if that is possible, what would something like that cost and where would I be able to purchase the upgrade? *


_You_ cannot upgrade it to 6.2. DirecTV will be doing that very soon. It's a free upgrade, and all you have to do is keep your receiver connected to a phone line to get it.


----------



## rcfisher

Thanks for your help.


----------



## DVRaholic

> _Originally posted by ebonovic _
> *Haven't clipped it yet.
> 
> Got my 21 day notice, Saturday... So soon... very soon. *


We'll Earl, its 28 days today right ?? Wondering if you are starting to see any issues without the Phone line connected ? I guess Monday is the Big Day. Let us know... Thanks


----------



## ebonovic

Well I checked one of my R10's last night.

It last called on 1/5/2005.
It is still recording, and has scheduled recordings way past the 14th.

It is supposed to try and call tonight, so let's see what the unit says tomorrow.


----------



## texas arsenal

Ive had my R-10 for just over 48 hrs. So far, so good.


----------



## rsudol

So which unit does someone reccomend. I am looking to replace my Hughes HDVR2 with something newer. Can anyone reccomend something.


----------



## ebonovic

Any of them are fine... The R10 is the newest. 
All the other units are identical underneath the case, with the exception of the size of their hard drive. 

So I would first recommend the Philips DSR series, as I simply love their outer casing. Followed by the R10.


----------



## Rcrew

Earl, what's the phone status today?

I just checked my R10. There was one message about no call for 14 days. My last successfull call was 1/20. 

Info screen says guide data to 2/18. But the one channel I checked has program info through 2/20.


----------



## ebonovic

> _Originally posted by Rcrew _
> *Earl, what's the phone status today?
> 
> I just checked my R10. There was one message about no call for 14 days. My last successfull call was 1/20.
> 
> Info screen says guide data to 2/18. But the one channel I checked has program info through 2/20. *


33 Days so far.. Daily nag message.
I have recording scheduled past 2/16 so far (stopped scrolling at that point).


----------



## bobbob20

I wonder if anyone here can read barcodes?
Better yet, anyone got a barcode reader?
Wonder if you should block those out too. 

Also, your UPS tracking # still works.


----------



## ironsline

Hey Ebonovic,
I just went out and got my R10 this past Saturday. Had the extra line run on Monday and was able to record the Oklahoma vs. Oklahoma State basketball game on that evening. Only disapointing thing was 4 hours to download all of the information. Being new to Sat and D-Tivo had to just jump in the water and try different things. I recorded the game and lo and behold the next morning I had about 6 different things recorded all related to basketball. 

My question is can I stop the pre recording of things if I don't want it to make Suggesting.

I know that I am going to like this system because have marked 7 shows already because I will be out of town

Thanks in advance


----------



## ddobson

You can turn off the Tivo Suggestions. I'm not in front of my Tivo now and have a poor memory.

I think it's under setup and then preferences. You can tell it to completely stop recording Tivo Suggestions then it will only record what you tell it to....

If you can't find it where I said, look around. It's in there somewhere 

If I was home I'd go look and tell you exactly where to turn it off.... sorry


----------



## ebonovic

The other thing I do, is for just about EVERY sporting event that I watch or record, I give it THREE Thumbs down. That way Tivo will think I don't like those shows, thus won't schedule them.

I had that problem a few summers back where I tivoed a baseball game. About a week later, I had about 60 hours of baseball games....


----------



## Matt9876

Got my R-10 and my USB to ethernet adaptor.

Guess you guys know what comes next.

Thanks Ebonovic !


----------



## ebonovic

Matt9876 said:


> Got my R-10 and my USB to ethernet adaptor.
> 
> Guess you guys know what comes next.


Yes... The waiting for DirecTV to provide us a software update to let that USB to Ethernet adaptor do something other than draw power



Matt9876 said:


> Thanks Ebonovic !


You are welcome


----------



## Vashie

I know this is going to sound silly and probablly already tried before. Since the thing powers a usb ethernet controller, and receives a IP from a DHCP server (and shows up in the tivo desktop app) Couldn't some enterprising linux geek get the drive out, chroot into it drop in a telnetd and throw it into init.d put the thing back into the the device and wambo bambo you've got everything you've needed to do HMO?

Vash


----------



## Jerw134

I can't think of a reply that isn't insulting, so I'll just keep it simple: that won't work.


----------



## Gunnyman

expanding on why....
Tivo's kernel is very particular. If there is stuff put on tivo that tivo didn't put there, the Tivo deletes it.
the R10 has an Eprom in it that makes it impossible to install a new kernel unless you hack the Eprom as well.

as of this writing Not bloody easy but folks are working on it I imagine.


----------



## Jerw134

We can always count on Gunnyman to keep a level head in the face of n00bs!


----------



## Vashie

Jerw134 said:


> I can't think of a reply that isn't insulting, so I'll just keep it simple: that won't work.


Be insulting if you're techincal with it  . Why wouldnt it work? Granted I'm new to this stuff but isn't a tivo nothing more then a glorified single purpous Linux box? If it's getting a IP then it's addressing that box. You cant get into it because of a lack of services with open ports. Give it something to open up with then at least you could throw on TivoWeb or something

Vashie


----------



## Vashie

Gunnyman2k3 said:


> expanding on why....
> Tivo's kernel is very particular. If there is stuff put on tivo that tivo didn't put there, the Tivo deletes it.
> the R10 has an Eprom in it that makes it impossible to install a new kernel unless you hack the Eprom as well.
> 
> as of this writing Not bloody easy but folks are working on it I imagine.


Ah, that makes more sense.. so the problem is not getting the software there and activating it but having it stay there without the tivo killing it in a refresh?

Vashie


----------



## Jerw134

Vashie said:


> so the problem is not getting the software there and activating it but having it stay there without the tivo killing it in a refresh?


Well the problem is both, really. Since you need to have the drive attached to a PC to put the stuff on there, as soon as you put it back in the Tivo and boot it up, it's gone. The telnetd or whatever you put on there will never get a chance to run in the first place, it'll simply be deleted.


----------



## Gunnyman

Jerw134 said:


> We can always count on Gunnyman to keep a level head in the face of n00bs!


I deal with a 2 year old all day long. So Tivo Noobs are a breeze


----------



## opus123

So from what I have been reading in this thread, it seems safe to leave the R10 units disconnected from phone lines without affecting performance..

I'm not a big fan of running additiaonal wires. I just want to confirm that it would be ok to do so, only hooking up for the initialization and for updates thereafter... I'm not big on ppv, so that shouldn't be a factor.

Upon hooking up the first time, how long should I keep the unit connected to the phone line before removing it?

Thanks guys...


----------



## Sartori

Why are you guys so bent on keeping your Tivos disconnected from the phone line anyway. Whats the big deal........


----------



## Gunnyman

well in my case, If my HDVR2 calls in, TOTAL CHAOS!
People who have installed software on thier tivos don't want them calling in.


----------



## opus123

Well number one.... 
I have wayy too many wires running wild all throughout my apartment already!!!! Add a satellite dvr and there's 2 more coax cables to each unit. I've got one phone outlet in the entire place and see no need to add more.

#2.. Not exactly thrilled with the prospect of tivo recording my viewing haits and selling them back to advertising research companies... I'd be less ofended if the service was free of charge.

Just curious... those of you with 4.0 software... do you transfer shows tivo to tivo wirelessly?

R10 seems good to me as I'm not really interested in many of the hacks out there... Unless it was HD content, I don't really see the benefit of archiving, as I usually buy dvd's on tv shows that I follow.


----------



## Matt9876

Already invested one day in solving the R10 Eprom problem. From whats been learned so far it's just a matter of time on this issue.


----------



## mtagliaf

Granted, I'm pretty new to all this...

You guys are talking about hacking the R10s, the company ptvupgrade seems willing to sell a pre-hacked replacement HD with Network capabilities, web interface, etc.


Do these HDs contain the same features you're trying to gain thru your hacking?

matt tag


----------



## Sartori

Well it seems to me you guys overlooked alot of issues before going into this. If you have a hacked tivo, worried about the info on the calls, or lack the technical ability to add a phone jack, quit complaing or trying to get around this phone line issue.


----------



## opus123

Sartori said:


> Well it seems to me you guys overlooked alot of issues before going into this. If you have a hacked tivo, worried about the info on the calls, or lack the technical ability to add a phone jack, quit complaing or trying to get around this phone line issue.


And we're the ones complaining?

Dude the R10's aren't hacked. If some people want to do so then God bless.
Personally I'd prefer not to have a phone line connected at all times.

If you don't want to contribute any information, that's your right. There's no need to post antagonistic remarks, as I never sought your approval.


----------



## the new guy

mtagliaf said:


> You guys are talking about hacking the R10s, the company ptvupgrade seems willing to sell a pre-hacked replacement HD with Network capabilities, web interface, etc.
> 
> Do these HDs contain the same features you're trying to gain thru your hacking?
> matt tag


The hacked drives run 3.1.1 and will not work in the R10. The replacement drives are intended for S2 DTiVo units only. The R10 is technically not S2 because of major hardware differences, and has been labeled Series 2.5 by the hacking community.

Tim


----------



## mtagliaf

thanks, I mis-read the web site. I thought the R10 replacement drives had all the hacks included, but they're just to increase capacity.

matt tag.


----------



## drosser

I want to get new DTivo units from D*, but I don't want their crappy installers messing around with my wiring. Is there any way to make them just deliver the units w/out installation?

Thanks!
-dr


----------



## Matt9876

You can pick up units from a local dealer and install them yourself.

Most will be ok with it as long as the units get activated in a day or two.

DirecTV will want them to be getting channel 100 before activation and having the units able to make the test call is a good idea.

Not all of us installers are crappy, I've done extensive setups in million dollar homes from Palm Beach Fl. to Knoxville Tenn.

With a couple of phone calls you might get someone really good.


----------



## opus123

drosser said:


> I want to get new DTivo units from D*, but I don't want their crappy installers messing around with my wiring. Is there any way to make them just deliver the units w/out installation?
> 
> Thanks!
> -dr


Dr... I'm in a similar boat.
I wanted to get all the stuff and see what's what before I had somebody over the house. My attempt to buy at Best Buy was a bust, as they were unwilling to give me free dish or installation with the DVR units. This is a total departure from what they offer via the website, and I'm unsure if it was just a mistake on their part or the actual policy.
Best of luck with your findings


----------



## DisturbedLen

ebonovic said:


> Well I am using the remote from my Philips DSR704... Most of the IR codes between the Tivo Remotes are the same.


Does the R10 remote control the TV, Receiver and Tivo?


----------



## ebonovic

DisturbedLen said:


> Does the R10 remote control the TV, Receiver and Tivo?


That is dependent that your equipment is "known" by the Tivo remote.

If there is a code in the remote for your specific equipment, then yes it will work.

My remote controls my TV's Power (and volume) and my Receiver's Volume control

I programmed my TV first, then the Receiver so the volume control goes to the reciever...

The R10 remote is identical to any other Series 2 DirecTivo Peanut Remote.
It is no different


----------



## DisturbedLen

ebonovic said:


> That is dependent that your equipment is "known" by the Tivo remote.
> 
> If there is a code in the remote for your specific equipment, then yes it will work.
> 
> My remote controls my TV's Power (and volume) and my Receiver's Volume control
> 
> I programmed my TV first, then the Receiver so the volume control goes to the reciever...
> 
> The R10 remote is identical to any other Series 2 DirecTivo Peanut Remote.
> It is no different


I ask because of this. I used to have a Phillips Series 2 (which I sent back to DTV because it was defective). Anyway, inside setup, it was missing an option to control the Receiver. I was baffled. I compared to my DVR2 and DSR6000, and both had that option. I was upset that I would have to use a second remote to control volume. So, I temporarily swapped it with the remote from my DSR6000, which already was programmed for the receiver. All was fine.

Then when I returned it to DTV, I sent back the remote that came with it, they gave me a DVR2 replacement, and all was as I was used to.


----------



## odawgx

Hey All,

I have been reading your posts about the R10 and I am not sure if its a blessing or more of a problem. 

I read that some people have received R10's from D*. 

I am a newbie and I used to have DTivo a while ago. The Sat-T60

I read on DirecTV's website that all they offer for new customers is the 35 hour model. Isn't the R-10 an 80hr. model? 

Sorry to post this here, but I don't think this is worthy of its own topic.

Thanks
Omar


----------



## ebonovic

DirecTV does give the R10 sometimes for new customers, and yes it is an 80hr model.
But to ensure recieving an R10, go with one of the authorized vendors (such as ValueElectronics www.valueelectronics.com)


----------



## Yaco

Hi,
Picked up my unit at Best Buy for $99 . I just checked my software version .It is 6.1 XXXXXXX. Any news on the USB Ports working? I see no inference to it anywhere in the 6.1 software .I need arebateform I can't find mine for the $50 rebate
Lee


----------



## ebonovic

Yaco...

Yes the USB ports are POWERED... But they don't do anything with regards to the software.

As for a rebate form... As far as I am aware, the $50 rebate is for new customers only via retailers. Contact DirecTV directly to see if they have a $50 rebate for existing customers.

If BestBuy didn't print out a rebate form for you at check out... Chances are very likely there is no rebate currently active for the unit, via their retail store... As they are pretty good at printing out the rebate forms.


----------



## Yaco

ebonovic said:


> Yaco...
> 
> Yes the USB ports are POWERED... But they don't do anything with regards to the software.
> 
> As for a rebate form... As far as I am aware, the $50 rebate is for new customers only via retailers. Contact DirecTV directly to see if they have a $50 rebate for existing customers.
> 
> If BestBuy didn't print out a rebate form for you at check out... Chances are very likely there is no rebate currently active for the unit, via their retail store... As they are pretty good at printing out the rebate forms.


Hi, 
I think you are correct. But after reading and Rereading the eligibility requirements I think I "Could" be able . We are "New" in the sense that we ordered a 3 room system less than a month ago 

AS far as the software what is the offical ver out there I have 6.1. 002456 something to that effect 
Thanks 
Lee


----------



## ebonovic

That is the correct version of the software for an R10.


----------



## chtrich

OK, so I haven't updated my software version in a long time (too scared of problems), but can anyone tell me if I update my series 2 will I have folders??
I WANT FOLDERS!!! 

Or do you HAVE to get the R10 to get folders?

Also, OP, I saw your video demo of the folders.....Does your R10 always move that fast? My series 2 sometimes takes 10-20 seconds to switch from a show back to the List. If it's really that fast there's another reason to upgrade!

Thanks!


----------



## ebonovic

Software version 6.2 should be comming soon for the Series 2s. (In the next few weeks).
Those will have folders.

As for the video... yes, at first the R10 did move that fast.
It is not "as fast" any more, but it still pretty quick.


----------



## chtrich

Thanks for your reply! I hope 6.2 comes sooner than later. I'm so anxious for folders!!!

I don't keep my Tivo plugged into the phone jack; anyway someone can post when 6.2 is out?

Is R10 still considerbly faster than series 2? 


Thanks again!
Chris


----------



## timpooz

Is it just me, or is the access card panel hard to open? There is no handle or even a piece of plastic that juts out.

This is discrimination against nail-biters!


----------



## sdchrgrboy

timpooz said:


> Is it just me, or is the access card panel hard to open? There is no handle or even a piece of plastic that juts out.
> 
> This is discrimination against nail-biters!


 Its just you. If you notice when you look at the upper left side, there is an indentation where you should grab it with your finger. Hadn't had any problem opening it. Besides it's not something that you need to do on a daily basis.


----------



## NYHeel

My mother has an R10 and I was over there showing her how to use it and I noticed that it's much slower than both of my DTivos. It's not even close and it was like that out of the box and a few weeks later. The remore commands are slightly delayed and when you delete something from the Now Playing List you can actually see the show disappearing. I don't understand. I thought the R10s were supposed to be faster. If this is what the 6.2 software does then I don't want it. It's not worth folders to have my tivo slow up like that.


----------



## ebonovic

Access Panel..... Oh yes, they are a major pain in the butt. On both of mine.
When I first got the first one (which I did the review on), I had to use a razor blade to get in there to pry it lose.

Speed: Have you tried to shut it down and restart it. I know after the first few days it got bogged down, but now they just fly along. My one in my bedroom has an upgraded 160gb drive in it, and has about 120hrs of recordings, and it just plugs and chugs... Much faster (MUCH) faster then any of my DSR704s that are at 120gb.


----------



## NYHeel

I haven't rebooted it, but she has had it for over a month now and it's still really slow.


----------



## dgold21

I have an R10 that I bought on Super Bowl Sunday. It is slower today that it was when I first plugged it in. My DSR6000 blows it away, and that's saying something. I'm on the verge of boxing it back up and taking it back...am I being impatient? It literally takes 30 seconds or more sometimes to recognize any remote input whatsoever. I'll click the guide button just once, and about half a minute later, it pops up. This is true of any command at all. Should I give it a little more time to work it out?


----------



## texas arsenal

dgold21 said:


> I have an R10 that I bought on Super Bowl Sunday. It is slower today that it was when I first plugged it in. My DSR6000 blows it away, and that's saying something. I'm on the verge of boxing it back up and taking it back...am I being impatient? It literally takes 30 seconds or more sometimes to recognize any remote input whatsoever. I'll click the guide button just once, and about half a minute later, it pops up. This is true of any command at all. Should I give it a little more time to work it out?


Sounds to me like you have a prob. While slower than a standard receiver the guide should pop up in 1-2 seconds and the remote should respond the same way. I would try to exchange it for a new unit.


----------



## ebonovic

Have you tried shutting it down and restarting it?
If that doesn't solve the problem, you are probably having a hard drive failure, and is grounds to have it replaced.


----------



## cmshep222

My friend just got the R10 w/ 80 hr from the RapidSatellite site. It is actually Free after Rebate. $49.99 for a One Room 80hr R10 system, then the $50 Rebate makes it Free baby!!! Also comes with 6.1 preloaded.

Check my profile and go to my homepage if you want to check out the deal for yourself.


----------



## ebonovic

Free usually only comes with New subscribers, but you can often find deals every once and a while.

Congrats.


----------



## pjpete

Hi can someone tell me where the ir sensor window is on the R10.

thanks

Pete


----------



## pjpete

Got it figured out.

Pete


----------



## ebonovic

Please do tell... I couldn't find it this afternoon when I was lookign


----------



## jiserrab

ebonovic said:


> Please do tell... I couldn't find it this afternoon when I was lookign


I beleive it is the white circle in the middle of the directional buttons on the front of the unit.


----------



## pjpete

jiserrab said:


> I beleive it is the white circle in the middle of the directional buttons on the front of the unit.


Hi your right this is what I found as well.

Pete


----------



## mstrange

First of all Earl thanks for the review and comments!

I am on the phone right now with Directv and just got a free replacement with a one year commitment. I have three DTivo's and my main room Series 1 is about to go (keeps rebooting and have pulled the case and have the temp at 39-42c and it stopped for a few days but is now doing it again.

I called directv and asked for customer retention and told them that I had been a customer for a number of years and was very frustrated. They offered a DTivo for $49 with a one year contract. I said I needed to decide as my local cable was offering a DVR for free with a $5 monthly fee and they offer the DTivo for free with a one year contract. I accepted!

Hope this helps.

Mike


----------



## Adam1115

Vashie said:


> I know this is going to sound silly and probablly already tried before. Since the thing powers a usb ethernet controller, and receives a IP from a DHCP server (and shows up in the tivo desktop app) Couldn't some enterprising linux geek get the drive out, chroot into it drop in a telnetd and throw it into init.d put the thing back into the the device and wambo bambo you've got everything you've needed to do HMO?
> 
> Vash


More importantly, why would an enterprising linux geek waste his time, when he could just load 4.01b and have folders, HMO and MRV?? 6.1 doesn't give you anything 4.0 doesn't have...


----------



## ebonovic

Because you can't load v4.01b on an R10.

And also a lot of the enterprising linux "geeks" out there do it for the thrill of doing it...

The one thing 6.1 gives you that 4.0 doesn't have, is corresponding support from DirecTV (regardless of how good it is)...


----------



## Adam1115

ebonovic said:


> Because you can't load v4.01b on an R10.
> 
> And also a lot of the enterprising linux "geeks" out there do it for the thrill of doing it...
> 
> The one thing 6.1 gives you that 4.0 doesn't have, is corresponding support from DirecTV (regardless of how good it is)...


Hmmm.. So following my logic.. why buy an R10? SDDVR-80 running 4.01b seems far superior...

And from what I read nobody is too interested in bothering with any hacks for 6.1...


----------



## ebonovic

It is not that people are not "bothering" with any hacks for 6.1; They are...
It is just more difficult at this point in time.

And yes, you are correct. Running an SD-DVR80 with 4.01b (which you must install) is more superior. Provided that DirecTV never does something to "block" unauthorized versions of the software. (Which is a discussion for another thread).


----------



## hifi

Can anyone with Speakeasy VOIP comment as to wether it works with there R10? Thanks.


----------



## manoj

With the rollout of 6.2, does the R10 still have a speed advantage over the older Series 2 Directivos?


----------



## ebonovic

Don't know yet... 

It should have "some" speed advantage, as it uses a faster memory subsystem.

But it is not going to be anything "earth" shattering.

Once I get my 6.2 upgrade, I will compare the two as best I can.

And as for the VoIP.... Just because VoIP works for one customer, doesn't mean it will work for you. Watching the forums, you will see that VoIP and TiVo are hit or mis, with no real pattern...


----------



## Zentaar

I plan to switch to direct tv and from spending hours reading this forum I have come to the following conclusions:

1) I can NOT share programming between satalite boxes PERIOD.

I was hoping to set up a home network to share programs, but seems undoable at least with the current direct tv hardware.


2) the R10 uses a dual tuner (so I can record 1 show and watch another).

My current box is a single tuner, my wife is annoyed because she puts the cable box on music and tivo changes the channel to record stuff and she can't use the music channels.


----------



## rminsk

Zentaar said:


> II was hoping to set up a home network to share programs, but seems undoable at least with the current direct tv hardware.


It is not a hardware limitation but DirecTV decission not to release the software that enables it. If you are willing to go with a non-R10 series 2 DirecTiVo then version 4.x can be installing which does allow HMO and MRV.


----------



## ebonovic

And for #2...
All Model DirecTivos are dual tuner enabled. Provided you have two feeds from a sat or multiswitch to the DirecTivo.


----------



## bga76

Hi ebonovic, Great review on the R10. I just got one of these with my new DTV account. I have a question for you. The installer did not hook up the dual tuner part of the R10 box, I want to know if this is something that i can do myself or do I need to contact the installer? I have 2 lines coming into the house off of the Satellite, one goes to the R10 and the other goes to the regular box upstairs. I have seen on these forums that a multiswitch is needed to do this, can i put a multiswitch at the R10 box?


----------



## ddobson

I'm not ebonic but I'll give you my opinion anyway. If the installer did not hook up the second tuner, he did not do his job. I just had 3 DVR's installed and the installer hooked all the tuners up.

It could require more equipment depending on your setup. You must have a lead for each dish, so if you have an open port on your LNB at the dish, you could run the lead yourself if you wanted to. If you don't have an open port available, you will need a multiswitch which the installer should have provided when he hooked it up.

Did you order through DirecTV? If so, perhaps you should give them a call. Trust me, you will most definately want it hooked up. I think the installer should have done it but if you wanted to you probably can yourself as well.

Hope this helps!!!

Enjoy it, I had 1 Tivo for a year and replaced my other 3 receivers with them last month. I now have 4 Tivo's in the house and we're all enjoying it very much.

Dwayne


----------



## tbh999

bga76 said:


> ... can i put a multiswitch at the R10 box?


No, you can't just add a multiswitch to the *one* line going to the Tivo.

If you have a round dish, you must run the two cables from the dish to the multiswitch. Then each tuner must be ran it's own RG6 cable from the multiswitch.

If you have an elliptical dish (with two or more LNB's), then you must run all four cables from the dish to the multiswitch. Then, just as in the round dish, each tuner must be ran it's own cable from the multiswitch.

I recommend you read the LNB and MULTISWITCH FAQ's thread and the HD TiVo and HD DirecTV TiVo FAQ thread (with pictures and diagrams).

NOTE: There is a way around the one wire per tuner requirement, however, it requires the use of a stacker and unstacker and the parting with several hundred dollars. But that's another show...


----------



## ebonovic

ddobson and tbh999 are correct in what they are saying...

Basically... you got screwed on a proper install.
Contact the vendor you purchased from, and have them get in touch with the installer company if you can't.

All standard installations of DirecTivos are to include a dual run of cable for dual tuners. Period.

Not only did you get screwed out of the labor of the 2nd run, you got screwed out of the multiswitch that would be involved (either integrated into the oval dish, or a seperate multiswitch).. And those can run from $20 to $50 depending on which modle yo ugo with.

You can do it yourself... there is no "magic" trick to it...
Just be certain that you don't have to eat the cost though. Either via credit from your vendor, DirecTV, or the installer in some way.


----------



## bga76

Thank you ddobson and tbh999 and ebonovic. I will be contacting the installer today to get him to come back out and hook up the second line. 

THis is a great site, very informitive. 

Brian


----------



## robertwhee

OK since I am new here please explain to a non techie to set the 30 second skip on the new r10 dvr remote


----------



## krymaney

robertwhee.

Start watching a show in the Now Playing list.
Point remote control at the Tivo
----the following steps need to be done in about 10-15 seconds------
Push the Select key on the remote
Push the Play key on the remote
Push the Select key on the remote
Push the 3 key on the remote
Push the 0 (zero) key on the remote
Push the Select key on the remote
-----the previous steps need to be done in about 10-15 seconds------

Now the Skip to Tick button (looks like a right arrow key up against a vertical line) becomes a :30 second skip forward button (it is located opposite side of remote and the Instant Replay button)

Hope this is clear. If it doesn't work, start over and try again.


----------



## glumlord

I am curious can you set it to 15 seconds by doing the following?

Push the Select key on the remote
Push the Play key on the remote
Push the Select key on the remote
Push the 1 key on the remote
Push the 5 key on the remote
Push the Select key on the remote



krymaney said:


> robertwhee.
> 
> Start watching a show in the Now Playing list.
> Point remote control at the Tivo
> ----the following steps need to be done in about 10-15 seconds------
> Push the Select key on the remote
> Push the Play key on the remote
> Push the Select key on the remote
> Push the 3 key on the remote
> Push the 0 (zero) key on the remote
> Push the Select key on the remote
> -----the previous steps need to be done in about 10-15 seconds------
> 
> Now the Skip to Tick button (looks like a right arrow key up against a vertical line) becomes a :30 second skip forward button (it is located opposite side of remote and the Instant Replay button)
> 
> Hope this is clear. If it doesn't work, start over and try again.


----------



## rminsk

It is only a 30 second skip. You can not set it differently by changing the numbers.


----------



## salikiji

Ok, I've read this entire thread and would like the opinion of some of you experienced hardware people. I've had a DSR6000 (series 1) for several years, basically happy with it, the drive is kind of noisy and rearranging the Season Pass items can take an eternity, but those are not huge issues for me.

From what I can see, the current series 2 box, the R10, should be quieter, may or may not be faster, still uses S video output, has disabled USB ports (thank you very much DTV), and may have simialr picture quality and may have worse picture quality. Oh, and the new OS has alphabetical/folder view options. 


Hmmm. I'm not sure I'm seeing a definite advantage to moving to a series 2 box, aside from another round of trying to make it dial out over my VoIP  

Opinions please? I may call DTV and try to hustle them out of a new receiver for the heck of it.


----------



## ebonovic

1) The R10 will be faster then your Series 1 unit.
2) Your Series 1 has reached it's end of life cycle, and won't be updated again
(aka you won't get folders, lba48 support, additional SAT support)

Other than that.... Unless you have having an issue with your DSR6000... don't upgrade.

Why would you try to hustle them? The unit is only $99... And if you are upgrading for upgrade sake... why should you get it for free?

I have no problem with people who get free upgrades because of something DTV did (aka, bad upgrade software, or their locals are on a sat that they can't recieve with current upgrade). But just to get one because you don't want to pay for it.....


----------



## Mr.Pibb

IMO, the R10 has a better picture than my series1 DirecTIVO. I don't consider it "hustling", but I called the DirecTV retention # and asked them if there was anything they could do for me to replace my other standard receiver with a DVR since the cable companies are offering such great deals. The CSR didn't hesitate and offered me a new unit and I only paid the $14.99 "delivery" fee. I still had 2 months left on an existing commitment, and I don't subscribe to any premium channels.

My opinions of the changes with the R10 compared to my series 1 unit:
Menus are faster. Grid guide faster. Adding season passes faster.
Picture is better, more color and contrast.
More storage (70hr vs 35hr)
Hard drive is quieter (but I had some vibration from the HD or fan transferring into my entertainment center that was audible. I fixed it by adding extra rubber feet to the front where I think the plastic was touching)
Doesn't seem to run as hot, but I haven't verified that. (In an enclosed entertainment center)
Folders are there, I haven't used them yet.



salikiji said:


> Ok, I've read this entire thread and would like the opinion of some of you experienced hardware people. I've had a DSR6000 (series 1) for several years, basically happy with it, the drive is kind of noisy and rearranging the Season Pass items can take an eternity, but those are not huge issues for me.
> 
> From what I can see, the current series 2 box, the R10, should be quieter, may or may not be faster, still uses S video output, has disabled USB ports (thank you very much DTV), and may have simialr picture quality and may have worse picture quality. Oh, and the new OS has alphabetical/folder view options.
> 
> Hmmm. I'm not sure I'm seeing a definite advantage to moving to a series 2 box, aside from another round of trying to make it dial out over my VoIP
> 
> Opinions please? I may call DTV and try to hustle them out of a new receiver for the heck of it.


----------



## salikiji

ebonovic said:


> 1) The R10 will be faster then your Series 1 unit.
> 2) Your Series 1 has reached it's end of life cycle, and won't be updated again
> (aka you won't get folders, lba48 support, additional SAT support)
> 
> Other than that.... Unless you have having an issue with your DSR6000... don't upgrade.
> 
> Why would you try to hustle them? The unit is only $99... And if you are upgrading for upgrade sake... why should you get it for free?
> 
> I have no problem with people who get free upgrades because of something DTV did (aka, bad upgrade software, or their locals are on a sat that they can't recieve with current upgrade). But just to get one because you don't want to pay for it.....


thanks for the response.

I used the term "hustle" humurously...but why would I ask for a deal on a new unit? Well, I've been a DTV customer for many many years (before the DSR6000 I had SAT1 and SAT2 Sony units) and they've enjoy a good deal of my commerce. If they want to offer me a deal on a new unit, cool. It's like my cell phone company, I've paid them $100/month for several years for service, I could pay say $350 for a new phone, but a new customer would only pay $49 for the same phone. So I could switch to a new carrier and get the same deal, or ask my current carrier to sell me the phone for $49 instead of $350 to retain me as a customer.


----------



## ebonovic

salikiji said:


> thanks for the response.
> 
> I used the term "hustle" humurously...


Sorry...

There are a LOT of people here on the forum, and elsewhere... That think DirecTV should give them EVERYTHING for free, and try to do so.

Anyway, that is a discussion for another thread, another day.


----------



## dshinnick

I have a Harmony 659. I set it up to talk to my SA S2, then I upgraded to an R10. I didn't change the Harmony a bit; it just immediately talked to the R10. I wasn't surprised; I figured they both had the same codes, and so I fully expected it to work.

dave


----------



## kbohip

dgold21 said:


> I have an R10 that I bought on Super Bowl Sunday. It is slower today that it was when I first plugged it in. My DSR6000 blows it away, and that's saying something. I'm on the verge of boxing it back up and taking it back...am I being impatient? It literally takes 30 seconds or more sometimes to recognize any remote input whatsoever. I'll click the guide button just once, and about half a minute later, it pops up. This is true of any command at all. Should I give it a little more time to work it out?


FYI, my parent's just got 2 R-10's installed today. I was over there going through the setup on my Dad's Tivo, checking the sat. signal strength. When I went to exit that screen the Tivo seemed to lock up. It sat there for around 20 seconds before it went back to the previous screen. It did this at every screen after that one too. Hitting the exit button to go back to live tv took 20 or 30 seconds to get back to it. I rebooted it (Man I thought my Dish 522 was slow to reboot!) and it seemed to cure the problem.

The Tivo my Mom's using didn't ever have this problem. I'm really hoping it's not a bad drive as someone here suggested it could be. I will ask my Dad if he's having any problems and keep you all up to date.

BTW, do any of you get any pixelation or audio dropouts with these units? The Dish 522's are notorious for this and I'm wondering if all dual tuner DVR's suffer from this.


----------



## Mr.Pibb

My new R-10 was just as sluggish the first day until I did a reboot. I haven't had one single slowdown in the past couple weeks since then. The menus are much faster than my Series 1 DirecTIVO.

I've not had any pixelation or audio dropouts at this point.

Tim



kbohip said:


> FYI, my parent's just got 2 R-10's installed today. I was over there going through the setup on my Dad's Tivo, checking the sat. signal strength. When I went to exit that screen the Tivo seemed to lock up. It sat there for around 20 seconds before it went back to the previous screen. It did this at every screen after that one too. Hitting the exit button to go back to live tv took 20 or 30 seconds to get back to it. I rebooted it (Man I thought my Dish 522 was slow to reboot!) and it seemed to cure the problem.
> 
> The Tivo my Mom's using didn't ever have this problem. I'm really hoping it's not a bad drive as someone here suggested it could be. I will ask my Dad if he's having any problems and keep you all up to date.
> 
> BTW, do any of you get any pixelation or audio dropouts with these units? The Dish 522's are notorious for this and I'm wondering if all dual tuner DVR's suffer from this.


----------



## ebonovic

As Mr.Pibb noted.... A reboot should help your slow down issues.

The R10's are doing something during their first week of life. IMHO, it is something in the code that is causing it to internally loop around and max out the processor.

A Reboot seems to reset that particular issue, and give you all the performance back.
I had to do this on both my R10s (and I have recommeded it dozens of times), in all cases it seems to resolve the performance issues.

Both of my R10's (one being upgraded to a 160gb drive), have been smoking along for almost 3 full months now.


----------



## lorick

I also have an R10 upgraded to 285hrs and it is working very fast. No problems here.


----------



## gts56

I love my R10. No problems here and I've had it about 6 weeks now. Definitely addicted.


----------



## henesy

I was disappointed that I cannot watch something else while recording Tivo to my brand new Sony RDR GX300 DVD Recorder (a STEAL on e-bay.) . Overnight would be an ideal time, but unless Im not grabbing this concept, the DVD Recorder records exactly what is shown on TV, so if you turn off your TV you aint recordin nuttin, brother. Directv to DVD recorder is fine.. it's the same as VCR. You can use timer, leave, shut off TV or watch something else while you're recording.... but you can't do those things from Tivo to DVD recorder. 

And, my God, the guide scroll is so slooooow!


----------



## ebonovic

henesy said:


> And, my God, the guide scroll is so slooooow!


If you think the Guide Scroll is slow on the R10... You need to see on the other models.....


----------



## SLOmike

henesy said:


> I was disappointed that I cannot watch something else while recording Tivo to my brand new Sony RDR GX300 DVD Recorder... but unless Im not grabbing this concept, the DVD Recorder records exactly what is shown on TV, so if you turn off your TV you aint recordin nuttin, brother.


The DirecTiVo can output only one signal. You can either watch the show that is being sent out, record it using a DVD Recorded (or VCR), or do both (watch and record one show). It does not matter if the TV is on or off. The TV never has to be turned on (except to watch a show). The DVD recorder should be connected between the DirecTiVo and the TV.


----------



## cslivkoff

Today, I received a R10 to replace my DSR6000.

Having moved a few weeks ago I am now living in a much smaller market now and needed the newer unit to receive locals. I expected some grief from the tech when I told him that I didn't have a phone line, but he completed the install and called to get my service transfered. He did take my DSR6000 as an exchange, though.

After he left, I took the R10 to a friend's house and attempted to make the initial setup call, but things did not go well. Based on my troubleshooting, the modem was not working properly. I spent about 25 minutes on the phone with DTV and they agreed to send me a replacement (2-3 days).

When I got back home, I popped the top and took a look at the board. The plastic RJ-11 jack for the modem moved slightly when I touched it. I can't see the solder contacts, but I think this might be the problem.

I read through all of this thread, and while I didn't see any mention of any major hw problems, there seemed to be an overall impression that the quality of the R10 is lower than the previous Series 2 models. There was some mention of image quality issues, but I haven't noticed any. The picture looks as good as my old DSR6000. 

Has anyone else had any modem problems with the R10 or am I the first to mention it?

Also, I think the 30-day test of no phone call passed, correct? Has there been any change yet or is the R10 still recording?

Thanks,

-chuck


----------



## stevemunk

same problem 
i had a sony t60 that gave out and replaced it with the r10 today.
i rember that with the t60 i put ",#034" in the prefix and it worked fine.
not this time.
i have 2 separate phone numbers and both lines fail.
i can hear the modem dial out when i pick up the cordless.
who uses a modem anymore anyway?
i will try the wireless modem and will post the results


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## C_Roberts

I have had a pair of DSR6000s (1 stock, 1 added 120GB HD) for about 3 years and they have never been that fast. With the addition of all the channels and 3 years use they have gotten ridiculously slow, although I have to say I have not missed one recording on either machine in that time. 

Setting a recording takes between 1 to 3 minutes, a season pass takes about 5-10 and dont even think about readjusting the season passes.  I did all the things I saw there like clearing thumbs and restarting it. They did help, but not by much. 

Yesterday I bought a R10 and its like going from a VW to a Corvette.  It is so much faster. The guide is perfectly clear (not fuzzy as others have had). The only drawback is the larger peanut remote has some buttons in different locations and I keep pressing the ones programmed into my head and messing things up. 

I plan on replacing my other DSR6000 tomorrow. :up:


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## stevemunk

well i did a reset last night 
selected clear and delete everything and went to bed
did the phone test today and it worked..
i wont have to get the wireless modem


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## Rcrew

cslivkoff said:


> Today, I received a R10 to replace my DSR6000.
> 
> ... He did take my DSR6000 as an exchange, though...


Why did you let him do that?


----------



## Rcrew

Since the drive died in my primary S1 Wednesday, I had occasion to move the 2 1/2 month old R10 into 'production' in the living room. It's been living in the guest room since Jan. Not much use in there, but it's been chugging along. BTW, at last check the phone had been disconnected for 60 days, and everything was working fine. 

I'm still adjusting to the different remote. But I'm not seeing any PQ issues. It is quite a bit faster, in everything. Re-ordering SPs and WLs is quick. But one big difference I saw was in power ups. Since I put my old 40gb back into the failed S1 while I wait for an RMA on the 160gb drive, I had opportunity to watch cold powerups on both systems close together. The R10 blows the S1 away in everything, especially acquiring the sat. 

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I'm seeing a slight difference in the NPL. On my S1s when I bring up the details on a recording in the NPL, I have up and down arrows that I can use the Channel up and down button to move to the previous or next recording. On my R10 there are no arrows, and I can't seem to move around at the program detail level.

If you're reading Earl, how many hours did you get putting a 160 into your R10? I was going to take my RMA'd drive and put it into my old S1 again. But now I'm wondering if I should just use that to upgrade the R10.


----------



## ronwoods

bwash said:


> Great Review!!
> 
> Could you comment on Fan and HardDrive noise I am planning on an R10 for the bedroom.
> 
> Thanks again for all your effort.
> 
> Bww


Don't know about anyone else, but when I got my Huges unit it was a bit noisy. I simply disconnected this internal fans power connector from the motherboard and then monitored the internal temp for a time, it has never gotten outside of normal operating temp. This was about 1.5 years ago and it is going stong.


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## ebonovic

Rcrew said:


> If you're reading Earl, how many hours did you get putting a 160 into your R10? I was going to take my RMA'd drive and put it into my old S1 again. But now I'm wondering if I should just use that to upgrade the R10.


The 160gb drive gave me 140hrs in my R10.
(Sorry for the late reply, it was a LONG holiday weekend).

As for removing the fan... I wouldn't... That heat could spike at any moment. If the fan is that loud, upgrade it one of the MANY available after market fans out there.

And the hard drive, the samsung 120gb drive is DEADLY quiet. You can almost put your ear right on the unit at bearly hear it still.


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## C_Roberts

Yea! I am now the proud owner of two lightning fast R-10s. I replaced the first of my two DSR6000s on Friday and was so impressed with the performance improvement I bought another one today to replace my other DSR6000. 

First I was impressed with Circuit City for their fast service in selling the units and informing me of the one year commitment and even more impressed that the DTV call center handled swapping each unit very well and fast. My only complaint is when you call DTV the phone-bot doesnt make it clear what choices to make for hardware upgrades. 

BWASH it should be fine in your bedroom. I was swapping out my second one today and thought I had accidentally unplugged the first one since I was right behind it and could not hear it. I could sure hear the DSR6000 hard drives from that close. It was running fine just being nice and quiet.


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## Rcrew

Finished this morning. I first tried putting my RMA'd Maxtor 160 in my old S1 after using dd to copy the old 40 gb drive. But I suspected there was going to be a problem when after trying to expand with -x I got "Nothing to Expand" 37 hours. 

I'm guessing the old 'original' 40gb drive was rebuilt from the old dual drive upgrade, and there's really a partition problem. 

Anyway, since I've liked the R10 in the living room so much, I just decided to use the 160 in it. So I used dd and -x from the PTV LBA 48 cd, and now I've got a 139 hour R10. I assume it's seeing the full, large drive. I'm pretty sure that when the 160 was in my S1 it only got 123 hours.

Thanks Earl for pointing me to the PTV cd .iso for LBA48 support. And of couse thanks to PTV for making the tools available.

I'm back to 3 DTiVos, although just a little bit less total time for the house, 139 + 70 + 35. But I'm guessing that'll be enough!


----------



## Chevy-SS

*Unhappy with the R10*

I have a 50" Samsung DLP. I was using DirecTV with a RCA receiver, with S-video connector. It worked really good and many shows (CNN, for example) were coming in at near-HD quality. I then installed the R10 (using same S-video connector and antenna line) and the picture is much grainier, also with a little ghosting. It's a very noticeable and disappointing difference. Some folks might be happy with it if they didn't know better, but my PQ was great with the RCA receiver and now it's just average at best with the R10 Tivo.

Some have mentioned swapping this R10 for another unit? Would that improve PQ? I really don't understand what's happening in the R10 unit. Is there an extra digital to analog conversion or something going on in there?

I really LOVE the convenience of Tivo, but not at the sacrifice of good PQ. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a bunch


----------



## C_Roberts

Chevy-SS, Im using a Toshiba 57HDX82 and the PQ looks as good as Sat TV gets. One thing that makes a Huge difference is to junk the S-Video cables that came with your unit and get a set of quality shielded ones. Im not talking Monster$$ cables, I bought the GE ones that you can get at Target of Frys for about $10 a set and it really is an improvement over the junkers that come with AV equipment. I ended up replacing all of my cables with the GE shielded ones. 

Then again you might just have a bad unit. The second R10 I installed last Monday was incredibly slow for the first two days, push a button and wait 10 to 30 seconds for anything to happen. I was getting ready to return it but by the third day it was fast as the first one.


----------



## Chevy-SS

C_Roberts, I used the same S-video cable that I was using the RCA receiver with. It is a really good shielded cable from Radio Shack. The only part that was changed was the receiver (went from RCA to R10). Even though I am not an electrical engineer, it seems obvious that if I only change out one part, and I get a decrease in PQ, then something in the new part is affecting the PQ.

Is everything in the R10 digital? I mean, if you can "pause" live TV, that means it is being recorded and then re-broadcast to your set. The PQ loss I am experiencing seems like an extra conversion, maybe digital to analog? I don't know. It's just disappointing to now this crummy PQ on such a beautiful set. I would've spent a lot more money to get a good Tivo unit that did not hurt the PQ.

Will DirecTV take this unit back and give me a better one? Is there a better one?


----------



## compac1882

Great thread have been lurking here for a while... 
wanted to know about r10 before talking DTV into the best deal available. Just a thanks to all


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## ebonovic

Chevy-SS said:


> Is everything in the R10 digital? I mean, if you can "pause" live TV, that means it is being recorded and then re-broadcast to your set. The PQ loss I am experiencing seems like an extra conversion, maybe digital to analog? I don't know. It's just disappointing to now this crummy PQ on such a beautiful set. I would've spent a lot more money to get a good Tivo unit that did not hurt the PQ.
> 
> Will DirecTV take this unit back and give me a better one? Is there a better one?


The R10 is just like the others: It records the digital stream from DirecTV, then decodes it to an Analog signal to your TV. ALL DirecTivos do that (With the exception of the HR10-250 HD unit)

You can certainly "try" one of the older Series 2 models. Any of them will do (Philips DSR Series, is the one I used to recommend)... They are all the same under the case. But do remember, this "could" be a software related issue with v6.x . There have been enough reports now that we just can't assume it is the viewer opion, that v6.x could be effecting the PQ quality.

It could als be that you have a bum R10, something wrong with it's output.
If you call DirecTV they will "most likely" exchange it for another R10. You may get lucky and get one of the older models. Normally DirecTV won't "specify" what replacement you will get, just that you will get one.

But as in most cases, it depends on the CSR you get, and luck of the draw at that time.


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## Hodaka

I too have noticed that my R10 picture quality is not as good as that of my old RCA receiver on the exact same hookup. It's not *that* bad.. but it is something my wife and I both noticed.. After testing, I did a lot of cable moving, switch changes, etc. Same picture quality throughout..

The menus and not being able to change the color scheme are the worst part. The guide is almost unreadable for my wife, and blurry to me (but readable at least). I believe this is a software issue, but don't know for sure..


----------



## ebonovic

Hodaka said:


> The menus and not being able to change the color scheme are the worst part. The guide is almost unreadable for my wife, and blurry to me (but readable at least). I believe this is a software issue, but don't know for sure..


The color scheme changing is an OVERALL DirecTivo / TiVo thing.
Not specific to the R10

As for the guide... for me at least, it is the same size font and readability as any other model DirecTivo.

But factors (including TV Type, and Size, and Age) do play an important part in that.


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## vince911

After two weeks with a new R10 I'd say the PQ is noticably a little better than my old Sony SAT-T60. Sharper and clearer but - YMMV.


----------



## C_Roberts

Wow, if you are using the S-video your guide should not be blurry at all. Both my R-10's have very sharp menu's. I am guessing that there must be a bad batch out there. I also had good performance with my DSR6000 units except they were too slow. I have been lurking here a lot again and it seems it is common for the menu on the R-10 to be blurry. I guess I lucked out to get two good ones. As a long time D*Tivo user I do use the list guide instead of the grid since it is faster and more transparent, but both are very sharp on my TV's.

I can only suggest

1) Replace the stock S-Video cable with a quality sheilded one
2) Set Sharpness on your TV to about 10% (Sat TV doesn't need sharpness like OTA or cable)
3) use RG-6 cables from the sat to the D*Tivo box(no RG-58,59 splitters)


Another thing I haven't seen so far is that the R-10 has added the bings and bongs to the optical cable. My DSR6000 only would play them in anolog mode.


----------



## Chevy-SS

I guess I just cannot understand why there is a digital to analog conversion (and resultant PQ loss) when I want to watch live TV. I can reluctantly accept a PQ degradation for a recorded show, but while watching "live TV" the Tivo unit should be able to pipe the clean digital signal right on through.

The PQ loss is not horrible, mind you, but it is very noticeable. In today's world of $5,000 (and up) HDTV sets, you should be able to expect no PQ degradation from your Tivo unit. I'm just amazed they would build a unit like this.


----------



## ebonovic

Chevy-SS said:


> I guess I just cannot understand why there is a digital to analog conversion (and resultant PQ loss) when I want to watch live TV. I can reluctantly accept a PQ degradation for a recorded show, but while watching "live TV" the Tivo unit should be able to pipe the clean digital signal right on through.
> 
> The PQ loss is not horrible, mind you, but it is very noticeable. In today's world of $5,000 (and up) HDTV sets, you should be able to expect no PQ degradation from your Tivo unit. I'm just amazed they would build a unit like this.


There is the digital to analog conversion, simply because your TV can't accept a DIGITAL signal. It needs an analog signal (this excludes HD defined connections).

They probably could have used a better grade decoder/modulator to generate the signal for the monitor, but it appears the PQ issue is not consitant. So in some cases (like mine, and others), the PQ is very good. In others it is blurry.


----------



## tbh999

Chevy-SS, all direcTV boxes have a D-A converter. The feed from the SAT is digital, so you need to convert it to watch it on your TV. 

Now, if you are talking HDirecTV and an HDTV, that's another matter, however the R10 is not HD.


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## BeRnWuN

Hello all, I am new to Tivo. I have a direcTV r10. I have a media center pc in my living room and just wanted to see if there was a way to pull the files off my r10. Im pretty sure the answer is no from reading through this thread. I have a wireless usb and a home network. Thanks for any help.


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## ebonovic

You are correct, there is no way to pull your files from your R10 (or any DirecTivo for that matter), to a Windows Media Center PC.


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## wally87

Would it be possible to use the media center PC to emulate a VCR?


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## ebonovic

wally87 said:


> Would it be possible to use the media center PC to emulate a VCR?


Sure... Why do you ask? As this is a TiVo forum, and this partiular thread is for the DirecTV R10 model....

AVSForum DVR section will certainly have some more information regarding Microsofts Media Center PC (this in addition to all the Microsoft Forums and newsgroups).


----------



## kryten2x4b

I purchased an R10 a week ago and have it connected to an Hitachi 54" HD monitor. I was using a Hughes GCEB0 receiver.

There is no question that the Hughes receiver had better PQ. The highly compressed digital signal that DirecTV sends varies in quality from channel to channel and was never great, but with the Hughes receiver it was often bearable.

However my R10's PQ on my large screen HD monitor is very difficult to watch. The graininess and the digital artifacts are quite pronounced especially in dimly lit scenes and animation. Sometimes details are just a blur. 

Now I realize that watching compressed digital signals on a large HD monitor certainly exacerbates the problem and the R10's output might very well look OK on a smaller screen, but this is 2005 and large screen HD sets are everywhere. You'd think a new generation receiver would at least look as good as a older model, not worse. I can live with the inferior menu system but not with the inferior PQ. 

I don't think there's anything defective with my R10, they're probably all like this. I know my HD monitor is fine because the PQ from DVD's is stunning. I just think the R10 was built to be as inexpensive to manufacture as possible and this is the result. Yes I know the HD unit is available but $1000 is ridiculous and there's still too little HD content on DirecTV to justify it.

I'm really disappointed because there are so few viable alternatives. I could give up Tivo or use a smaller size screen or pay a fortune for a few HD channels. All unacceptable choices. 

How long will we have to wait before we can receive main stream high quality digital television from satellite TV?


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## ebonovic

There is no doubt that the R10 has PQ issues with some TV's....

Are you connecting via S-Video, Component, or Composite?
Most times it appears with the S-Video connection style.... but then again, it has not been consitant at all.

There is no doubt they may the unit "cheaper", I saw that the moment I applied a screwdriver to the first screw.

DirecTV optimizes their picture quality for a 26"-32" CRT display model. That information came from a previous DirecTV Employee that frequented the board. 

So until DirecTV start to "catch" up with 2005, then we are going to see issues.
There is no dobut that the "TiVo" part does something to the picture, as it has to prepare it for the graphic overlays (the fast forward bar, the thumbs up, down, ect....) So it is adding just enough additional garbage to the video screen, that newer TV's are picking that up.

With regards to the $1,000 HR10-250... With enough "searching", credits, and catching sales that occur. You can get the unit for about $500... See the HD-Forum for more details. Which is still high.... But if you only look for HD Content for DirecTV, then you are going to be waiting a long time, or in about 6 months you are going to be looking at the Home Media Center that can tap into the new sats.

OTA is where "most" of the original HD Content comes from. And if you are in an O&O but can't get reception, you may qualify to get the East or West Coasts feeds.

....

To answer your last point.
Probably about 6 to 12 months at this point. As the new Sats are starting to go up (one is set to launch next week).... 
So hopefully we will see the Home Media Center for HD content by the Holiday season.


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## Mr.Pibb

kryten2x4b said:


> I purchased an R10 a week ago and have it connected to an Hitachi 54" HD monitor. I was using a Hughes GCEB0 receiver.
> 
> There is no question that the Hughes receiver had better PQ...


I had completely the opposite experience going from a hughes GCEB0 to an R10 on my 34" Toshiba HD monitor. The picture on the GCEB0 was noticiably washed out and the blacks all blended together on it. Maybe, if that was the case with your unit, you had your TV adjusted to counter the bad picture on the GCEB0 and now it makes the R10 look bad? Maybe the quality control on the R10's just sucks. 

Anyway, any of the DirecTV "preview" channels look great. If they only allocated that much bandwidth to all the channels I think much of our picture quality issues would go away. I'm interested to see what happens with the new satellites, but nervous that they'll take my Tivo away and give me an inferior PVR.


----------



## thedataman

Just became a DirecTv subscriber about 1 week ago. I have 4 units. 

1 RCA HD unit 
2 D10 SD units 
1 R10 Tivo unit 

I have the following connections: 

1 RCA HD unit connected to 55" Mitsubishi HD RPTV 
1 D10 unit connected to 20 inch CRT 
1 R10 Tivo connected to 27" CRT 
1 D10 unit connected to 42" EDTV Plasma 

(The D10 is not connected directly to the plasma. Instead it is connected to a Marantz SR5500 receiver via the S-video output on the D10, which is then converted to component out from the Marantz and then run to the Plasma. I will use the same connection for the R10 once I swap the units.) 

I am planing to swap the R10 Tivo unit on the 27" TV with the D10 on the Plasma. However, in reading through this thread, I have to ask a few questions... 

1) Does the D10 show better PQ than I will see with the R10 TIVO when I swap the units? 
2) Is anyone here running the R10 on a plasma? What are your experiences with PQ.


----------



## ebonovic

thedataman said:


> J
> 1) Does the D10 show better PQ than I will see with the R10 TIVO when I swap the units?
> 2) Is anyone here running the R10 on a plasma? What are your experiences with PQ.


for #1: I have never had a D10 (Actually I haven't had a non-dvr reciever for well over three years, so I can't compare it.

For #2: I have hooked one of my R10s up to my Pioneer 503cmx plasma, via S-Video. The PQ was identical to that of my DSR704. The PQ is not "terrific" on some channels, but on others it is just as good as the SD quality from the HR10-250 (that is also hooked up to the Plasma via Component).

If you are going to be more then 10ft away, it VERY watchable... Not HD, but still very watchable. The only thing that really degrades the picture is stretching it out to fill the screen. Other than that both the R10 and the DSR704 PQ was the same on my 50" plasma.


----------



## catfish john

Has any one had this happen to them with the HR10?
when viewing the screen goes to black & white with waves of color but will disappear when you change channels?


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## ebonovic

Yes, it is a problem with the CORE TiVo software or hardware design.
It has been around since the Series 1 units...


----------



## catfish john

ebonovic said:


> Yes, it is a problem with the CORE TiVo software or hardware design.
> It has been around since the Series 1 units...


 thank you ebonovic for your reply. do you know if there is a fix for this problem or not.


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## ebonovic

Nope, there is no fix.

If it is happening very frequently, contact DirecTV and request a replacment.


----------



## johnalb

I purchased an R10 form Best Buy and after a month and a half, it was so slow that Directv agreed to replace it. However, they sent a Samsung SIR S4080R. 

Is this a downgrade?

Should I keep the Samsung or complain to get another R10?

Will this unit upgrade to 6.2?


----------



## ebonovic

The unit will get eventualy get the 6.2 upgrade, when it goes full release.

Did you try powering down and restarting your R10 before you sent it back? Just curiuos.
It is possible that the hard drive was going bad.

Either way, the Samsung is a good unit.


----------



## johnalb

Thanks for the reply. 

Yes, I did multiple reboots on the R10 before calling Directv. It just slowed down when accessing recorded programs.

I am in the LA area and the 6.2 upgrade on my DVR40 was awesome.

BTW. Is the Samsung a Series 2? It is still on 3.1e.

Thanks.


----------



## kbohip

I get my new R-10's installed on Firday!  I'll be hooking one up to a 57" Toshiba RPTV and one to a 32" Sony Trinitron. I'll let you guys know what my thoughts are on the PQ. I'm switching from Dish so I'll be interested to see if I can see any differences.


----------



## bcushman

ebonovic said:


> The unit will get eventualy get the 6.2 upgrade, when it goes full release.
> 
> Did you try powering down and restarting your R10 before you sent it back? Just curiuos.


I bought a R10 from BB on Sunday. Got it activated and found it was SLOW, and I mean slow. I unplugged it, and it was fine after that.


----------



## ebonovic

bcushman said:


> I bought a R10 from BB on Sunday. Got it activated and found it was SLOW, and I mean slow. I unplugged it, and it was fine after that.


We have found that is the case with almost ALL the R10s.
It does something in it's first week of "life" that is causing it to loop out internally.

A reboot fixes it almost ever time.
I rebooted mine, and they have been running solid for almost 4 months now.


----------



## db54

johnalb said:


> I purchased an R10 form Best Buy and after a month and a half, it was so slow that Directv agreed to replace it. However, they sent a Samsung SIR S4080R.
> 
> Is this a downgrade?
> 
> Should I keep the Samsung or complain to get another R10?
> 
> Will this unit upgrade to 6.2?


i purchased my R10 from BB as well and am confused as to who is actually responsible for it, should there be a problem . would it actually be BB or *D) i was under the impression that since it was purchased from BB, that they should be contacted if there were problems.


----------



## johnalb

When I contacted BB, they said their policy is to provide a refund if the product is returned within 30 days. According to the manual, DIrectv provides a limited 90 day warranty. However, they will repair, replace with new, repaired, refurbished or comparable product. Thus, they ship whatever they have in stock.


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## ebonovic

db54 said:


> i purchased my R10 from BB as well and am confused as to who is actually responsible for it, should there be a problem . would it actually be BB or *D) i was under the impression that since it was purchased from BB, that they should be contacted if there were problems.


If it is is inside the 30day window, it would be Best Buy.
30 - 90 Days... DirecTV

90+ , Call DirecTV and see if they can do something for you... but it is "technically" out of warranty at that point.


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## db54

thanks Earl


----------



## MikeekiM

I have scanned the entire thread (great review, and informative posts!)...

Quick question which I didn't see covered (though I may have missed it): Does the R10 have the issue of remote hangs? That is, sometimes both my SAT-T60 and HDVR2 units become non-responsive to remote commands... The keystrokes (or at least some of them) seem to get buffered during the "hang", which sometimes lasts for a good 20-30 seconds...

Thanks!


----------



## kbohip

When my Dad first got his R-10's hooked up over a month ago he had the remote hang issue. Actually I was going through the menus myself at the time and noticed it. The system got VERY slow and the remote stopped responding and took 20-30 secs to do anything. I did a reboot and it's worked perfect ever since. My mom has the same unit in the other room and it never had the problem. At first I though the drive in my Dad's might have been defective but it's worked perfect since.

I just got 2 R-10's hooked up last Friday and neither one had this problem. As far as PQ goes I have to give a slight nod to Dish Network though. The Directivo looks fine on the premium channels but the locals look like analog cable. Not good on my 57" HD ready tv. I can live with it though because unlike Dish's junk DVR's the Directivo's have both been stable as can be so far. I'm not getting the audio dropouts and pixelation that I got with my Dish 522 dvr either. I can't wait for HD to finally become mainstream! Neither Dish nor Directv SD look as good as they should on my big tv.


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## ebonovic

MikeekiM said:


> Quick question which I didn't see covered (though I may have missed it): Does the R10 have the issue of remote hangs?


Yes it does, but it is not to the same degree as the T60 and the HDVR2.
In fact, after the first "reboot"... my now standard recommendation is that you reboot your R10 about a week after you have had it, and then once again another week later.... (The R10 does something that causes it to loop out inside the software, after a reboot (or 2) that issues goes away.... almost 5 months now, and have not had to reboot again).

I get a rare occasion where it will hang for a few seconds (less then 5). And I have up-ed my hard drive to a 160.


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## ebonovic

kbohip said:


> As far as PQ goes I have to give a slight nod to Dish Network though. The Directivo looks fine on the premium channels but the locals look like analog cable. Not good on my 57" HD ready tv.


Local PQ has always been an issue... some locals have good PQ while others are just brutal. There are a lot of factors that go into play with the PQ.. (The source, method of transmission to DirecTV, compression from the source to DTV, compression from DTV to consumer).

Hopefully it will improve when they get to move some of the HD content from the 101 and 119 SATs, and get lower the compression settings for locals.

DTV picture is optimized for a 32" CRT TV... As your TV get's larger, and of better quality, you will start to see the compression artifacts. State of the technology at this point I guess


----------



## MikeekiM

kbohip said:


> I did a reboot and it's worked perfect ever since.





ebonovic said:


> Yes it does, but it is not to the same degree as the T60 and the HDVR2.
> In fact, after the first "reboot"... my now standard recommendation is that you reboot your R10 about a week after you have had it, and then once again another week later.... (The R10 does something that causes it to loop out inside the software, after a reboot (or 2) that issues goes away.... almost 5 months now, and have not had to reboot again).
> 
> I get a rare occasion where it will hang for a few seconds (less then 5). And I have up-ed my hard drive to a 160.


Hmmm... Do you know if my SAT-T60 and HDVR2 would benefit from regular reboots? I know the answer could be "try it and see"...and I can certainly do that. But I am wondering if anyone knows for certain or has any experience...


----------



## kbohip

ebonovic said:


> Local PQ has always been an issue... some locals have good PQ while others are just brutal. There are a lot of factors that go into play with the PQ.. (The source, method of transmission to DirecTV, compression from the source to DTV, compression from DTV to consumer).
> 
> Hopefully it will improve when they get to move some of the HD content from the 101 and 119 SATs, and get lower the compression settings for locals.
> 
> DTV picture is optimized for a 32" CRT TV... As your TV get's larger, and of better quality, you will start to see the compression artifacts. State of the technology at this point I guess


Ya, the crappy thing is the only reason I had to get a 57" tv was because after I moved into our new house I found that it was a little hard to see my 32" Trinitron from a distance of 20 feet. The 57" I can see very easily but it REALLY shows any picture artifacts and noise. The 32" is now downstairs and looks awesome with Directv.

MikeekiM, I don't know what to tell you. I have two R-10's and I've rebooted the upstairs one twice now. Once when I first got it and another time after I put the new hard drive in. The one downstairs has never even been rebooted once after the initial setup and works perfect.


----------



## ebonovic

MikeekiM said:


> Hmmm... Do you know if my SAT-T60 and HDVR2 would benefit from regular reboots? I know the answer could be "try it and see"...and I can certainly do that. But I am wondering if anyone knows for certain or has any experience...


Not really.... Not set pattern with the older models.

The reboot on the R10 is to correct a programming loop it gets stuck in.
Now, the "programming loop" is MY OWN best guess of what is going on, as a programmer.

DirecTV and TiVo have never come out to say what is going on, but it is a logical explanation.


----------



## daver42

Glad I found this forum. Just wanted to impart my R10 tale. It was working fine when it was installed a few weeks ago. The other day I started getting blank screens, dropped recordings, and then the message saying that Sat In 2 is not detecting a signal. I reset the thing, did the guided setup, and still no signal. Swapped the lines coming from the sat dish, and still no signal detected by Sat In 2. Called DirecTV and within a 2 minute phone conversation describing the above, the guy says they'll ship out a new one. Anyone experience this? Got my R10 at BestBuy. I'm assuming DTV's going to ship me a refurbished unit though. As long as it works, I'll be happy.


----------



## ebonovic

All models of DirecTivos have experienced this problem, it is not exlcusive to the R10.

Your 2nd tuner went bad...


----------



## Philip_G

Is there still no way to network the R10? All of the chatter about it seems to be 3 months old, so I was hoping someone had found a way.


My old hacked DSR6000 is stuck in a reboot loop, so rather than redo the hard drive again I figured I'd "upgrade" to an R10, I honestly don't see the speed improvements people claim, but maybe it's just me. Putting a newer/faster hard drive in the dsr6k helped it a lot it seemed at the time. Especially bootup.


----------



## ebonovic

Nope... As of right now there have been no publicly released hacks to turn networking on in any fashion on the R10.

Hmmm.... Try a reboot of the R10... 
I see the speed up in the menus, are almost night and day. And my R10 has been updated to a 160gb hard drive.


----------



## Philip_G

ebonovic said:


> Nope... As of right now there have been no publicly released hacks to turn networking on in any fashion on the R10.
> 
> Hmmm.... Try a reboot of the R10...
> I see the speed up in the menus, are almost night and day. And my R10 has been updated to a 160gb hard drive.


I did notice the R10 was extremely sluggish in the menus at first, but attributed it to downloading guide data or something like that, it's been OK lately.

to be honest the original reason for replacing the drive in the dsr was to eliminate the annoying whine from the old quantum drives they used to use. Glad to see the R10 has a WDC.

that's too bad about the networking, I was hoping to get it on and not have to drag a phone cord across the room every now and then, but I guess I'm used to the 1st gen hack it or it'll go into boat anchor mode without a call mindset. Not to mention I ordered the adapter after checking the tivo website for compatibility, it didn't say anything about the R10 not being compatible 

oh, one complaint about the R10- the chassis is really cheap and mine isn't quite flat, if it's not set on my rack just right it makes a humming sound, I don't know if it's the fan or just vibration, but it'll wiggle back and forth like a bad table at a restaurant. Pretty minor complaint.


----------



## svandive

Well I have been doing research all night now, and have read all that I can about the R10. I have an OLD Sony SAT T-60 and a brand new R10 that has not been powered up yet. I have a 160Gb hard drive and the InstantCake disc for getting my 160Gb drive setup for the tivo. What I am majorly lacking now is Networking. So, I have read the forums here and it seems that quite a few folks have R10s and want Networking. I have also read the forums over at PTVupgrade, there only three people have voted that they own R10s and want Networking. So I would say take a stroll over to the forums at PTVupgrades and vote to have them add functionality for the R10 in their PTVNet software. 

First off the software sounds perfect, and it is a simple install. The problem here is they support every Series 2 DirecTivo, but the R10 it seems. I guess what I am looking for is for folks to yell out "Hey we would really like to have networking, and D* isn't giving it to us, so PLEASE will you guys!!!". 

My 2pints.... 

Scott


----------



## ebonovic

Scott...

"We" as a community have been pleading with DirecTV for over 2 years to allow Networking on Series 2 units. The v4 software runs on ALL Series 2 units with ZERO modifications.. (other then the changes necessary to allow it to run on a RID machine, which is ajust a few files)....

DirecTV is either:
a) not listening
b) TERRIFIED beyond all reproach that users are going to "steal" their not-so-perfect digital versions of programs
c) Can't figure out how to handle networking issues within their support structure.

You only get cookie cutter answers from DirecTV.... 
Then they introduce the R10, which is just different enough that we can't run v4 on it... but it runs v6.1, which already talks to the USB port, already asks for an IP address, already talks to TiVo Server software, already has some of the trouble shooting screens (find the thread called "Intresting Screen"), thus the 6.1 software HAS all the networking pieces there... DirecTV just doesn't turn them on.....

They simple don't give to rats craps on what we want....

For more details see the HMO Request threads, and the nearly daily posts regarding "networking" for the DirecTivos.


----------



## svandive

Yeh, I know... I just think this is so sad, and there is not much that can be done. This is why a software program like PTVNet is so great. I love doing things that make my dTivo do what I want and what d* won't give me.

I mean the simplest of things like a networked unit that I can control via a web browser. 

I just don't see how d* expects to last through this. I have been a d* subscriber for going on 12 years now, back when it USSB and DirecTV, and I have started to look at Cable. No Hi-Def local channels, limited Hi-Def channels at all. No On Demand features, the added cost of hardware v. cable. I just hate to give up and move back to cable, but if d* can't catch up with what is out there and listen to what the people are asking for then screw'em.

Scott


----------



## tivoupgrade

svandive said:


> Well I have been doing research all night now, and have read all that I can about the R10. I have an OLD Sony SAT T-60 and a brand new R10 that has not been powered up yet. I have a 160Gb hard drive and the InstantCake disc for getting my 160Gb drive setup for the tivo. What I am majorly lacking now is Networking. So, I have read the forums here and it seems that quite a few folks have R10s and want Networking. I have also read the forums over at PTVupgrade, there only three people have voted that they own R10s and want Networking. So I would say take a stroll over to the forums at PTVupgrades and vote to have them add functionality for the R10 in their PTVNet software.
> 
> First off the software sounds perfect, and it is a simple install. The problem here is they support every Series 2 DirecTivo, but the R10 it seems. I guess what I am looking for is for folks to yell out "Hey we would really like to have networking, and D* isn't giving it to us, so PLEASE will you guys!!!".
> 
> My 2pints....
> 
> Scott


We'd love to offer PTVnet for the R10; unfortunately, the internals of the R10 are significantly different than those of the other Series2 SD units out there; currently, the only known way to modify the R10 so that additional tools can be installed is with a hardware modification that involves replacing an IC on the systemboard, and that is messy.

So, for those that want to network their Series2 units, best bet is to find a slightly older unit. For those that have a Series1 DirecTiVo or can get one, that is still the best thing out there - not only are the tuners better in the older Series1 DirecTV TiVo units, but file transfers with a CacheCard equipped model are much faster than any networked Series2 units. Of course, its more expensive to go that way, as well....


----------



## davekell

Ummmm...I been trying to off load show's and such. Im using a pinnicale mot/Cap card. but it had no rca ports on it, just a line in. So i can get video but no sound....I see there is a 3/8 inch input jack, is that a sound port? Also could i just pull the drive and place it in a comp and off load data? or is the tivo data format diffrent?.....i ran out of room in a week.....my oldest comp has atlest 100 Gigs and that a POS HP. lol


----------



## ebonovic

1) Check with Pinnical regarding the card... It is posisble that you need to use the LineIn on your sound card

2) No, you can't pull the hard drive and use it as suggest. If you do, you will actually end up damaging your TiVo hard drive, and it won't be able to be re-installed into your TiVo without applying some hacks and codes to undo what Windows does to it.

Plus, the TiVo data is a format that you will need to convert.

Also, the R10 can not be hacked to add any type of networking function.


----------



## Pellegrino

Is there any way to change the color or letter size in the programming Menu list? I find the white letters are a bit small and not as sharp as I would like.


----------



## ebonovic

Nope... 
On all DirecTivo models (not just the R10). The GUI interface is not customizeable.

The colors and size are what they are...


----------



## ayrton911

My R10 is arriving tomorrow, or should. I can't wait to try it out! I'll post back here, in a few days, to say how it has worked out.


----------



## PacketBoy

Got two R10's last week for free with credit from D**, did a lot of reading here and just put in 250 GB drives in both units for 217 hrs rec time each.

I am very pleased with the R10. Interface is very quick and easy to navigate. Already have wife unit complaining that I didn't do this sooner.

Guess I'll try to get a few bucks for my old UTV units on eB*y.

Thanx for all the info posted here! You guys ROCK!  



Jeff

- Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most -


----------



## scottjf8

PacketBoy said:


> Got two R10's last week for free with credit from D**, did a lot of reading here and just put in 250 GB drives in both units for 217 hrs rec time each.
> 
> I am very pleased with the R10. Interface is very quick and easy to navigate. Already have wife unit complaining that I didn't do this sooner.
> 
> Guess I'll try to get a few bucks for my old UTV units on eB*y.
> 
> Thanx for all the info posted here! You guys ROCK!
> 
> Jeff
> 
> - Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most -


I'm on the phone with D* now ordering the R10 for free!

Did yours come with an 80 hour drive? I think i'm just gonna replace it with a 200GB drive right off the bat...

How hard was the upgrade? I've done both my Series 1's, but wanted a Series 2 in my bedroom (keeping the S1 downstairs since it's networked/hacked)


----------



## Pellegrino

Mine came with an 80 GB drive and I heard it from 14 feet away without the TV sound on. It makes a sort of chirping sound that I found quite annoying. Not to be misleading, the noise is most obtrusive when somewhere near the unit, something like a few feet--in a bedroom is someplace I wouldn't put it. 

I solved the noise problem by putting acoustical material on the cardboard backing (inside part) of the TV stand.


----------



## PacketBoy

scottjf8 said:


> I'm on the phone with D* now ordering the R10 for free!
> 
> Did yours come with an 80 hour drive? I think i'm just gonna replace it with a 200GB drive right off the bat...
> 
> R10 came with WD 80 GB HD ~ 70 hrs
> 
> How hard was the upgrade? I've done both my Series 1's, but wanted a Series 2 in my bedroom (keeping the S1 downstairs since it's networked/hacked)
> 
> Upgrade was quie easy, hardest part is finding right Torx drivers.
> 
> I have my 2 units right beside each other and the remote id trick works nicely.


Jeff


----------



## TXTivoUser

I've got a HDVR2 that's at 3.1d (I think) and a new R10 that just replaced another HDVR2 that was about to die.

When in the Now Playing list, you can select a show and you get to the screen to play, delete, save to vcr etc.

On my HDVR2 - I used to be able to use the Channel Up and Channel down buttons to get to the 'details' view of the next recording in the Now Playing list.

On my R10 with 6.1, I'm unable to do this.

Is there a way to enable this? Sure makes it easier to see which of the recordings you want to watch when there's a bunch of the same show.

Perfect example - I like to watch Car and Driver TV, Trucks!, and those type shows. There are usually 2 or 3 of each of these shows recorded on my TiVo. If I want to see what all the Trucks shows are about, I click on one of them I get to see the description of what they are about. It's easier to just hit channel down and go to the next one's description than it is to go back, down, enter again just to see the description.

So - can it be done or am I stuck?


----------



## ebonovic

Do you have the R10 in "grouping" mode, as I am 99% sure I have done this on my R10.
I will double check when I get home.

I have noticed that if you have your items grouped, this doesn't allways work.


----------



## TXTivoUser

Turns out it works just fine - not sure what changed or what I was doing wrong.


Thanks for the replies!


----------



## Gojira69

I have a Dtivo which came with a 40gig HDD; I upgraded it to a 120gig drive. I've had it for about a year and a half so there's a lot of shows on it. 

If I get an new R10, can I swap the HDDs between the 2 Dtivos without any untoward consequences? I'd like to put the new R10 in the front room with the old hard drive with all the wife's shows on it and take the older Dtivo in the back to do some further modding on it.

On the other hand, if the R10 is currently 'tweekable' (which everything in this thread says it is not) I'll just tweek it and not bother swapping drives.


----------



## ebonovic

Nope on both accounts.

1) You can't take a hard drive from one DTivo and play it back in another DTivo. They put an encryption on the recordings, so that they can ONLY be played back in the unit that recorded them. 

2) The R10 is not "tweekable" due to a hardware level security measure. So unless you want to crack out the soldering iron and do some hardware surgery, an upgraded hard drive is the best you can do with an R10.


----------



## dnelms

I've looked thru this thread and may have missed it, but do others seem to think the R10 picture quality is different than the Hughes HDRV2? I moved the Hughes to the bedroom and put the R10 in the den. Most TV watching by me is done here, but the cheaper TV is back there. The Hughes picture using Yellow/Red/White cables in my mind was better than what came out of the R10. NOw the difference in the setup also is that I'm passing thru a Panasonic ES1) DVD Recorder... ..tried bypassing that and saw some improvement, but not what I was expecting. Should tell you that the TV does not have a S-Videop input, just the Y/R/W connections. Any suggestions (short of a new TV) for improving this setup?


----------



## ebonovic

Not really.... 

Your DVD Recorder is obviously altering the image somewhat.

The Yellow is composite video. The R and W Are your audio cables.
One thing to try is using the RF output (aka Channel 3) and hook that up to your TV, and just use the Y connection for the DVD recorder (you can have both hooked up at once).

Some people have reported a slightly blured image with the R10s, but it is not a consitant report from all R10 owners (myself included).


----------



## Gojira69

ebonovic said:


> Nope on both accounts.
> 
> 1) You can't take a hard drive from one DTivo and play it back in another DTivo. They put an encryption on the recordings, so that they can ONLY be played back in the unit that recorded them.<snip>


Okay. Got it. Thanks for the info.

Now I have a couple more questions...

If I move the hard drive from the older version 2 dTivo to the new R10 dTivo, I lose my programs, BUT will the Tivo O/S work?

If so, the programs that are no longer accessible, are they deleted and the space freed up on the drive, or, are they simply inaccessible and I have a hard drive that's nearly full?

Thank you in advance,

BobB


----------



## ebonovic

No, the OS from the Older will not work in the R10. It has an updated OS.


----------



## Gojira69

I looked at you pics at the beginning of this thread and I am unsure what is the quickest way out of the box (short of cracking it open or powering it up) to tell if one has received an R10 (when I get my free one in a couple weeks  )?

BobB


----------



## paulfife

Gojira69 said:


> I looked at you pics at the beginning of this thread and I am unsure what is the quickest way out of the box (short of cracking it open or powering it up) to tell if one has received an R10 (when I get my free one in a couple weeks  )?


I bet the quickest way won't even involve opening the box.  It should be on the outside (of the product box).

Barring that the model will be on a sticker on the back.


----------



## Gojira69

Oops! It was right there all along:


----------



## KHLS97

I have to admit.. I am a little disappointed with the R10. It's great to have twice as many hours as I did previously, but the menu screens are more dull, and the text is definitely fuzzy compared to the HDVR2... Still, I got a good deal so I guess I can't complain that much..


----------



## Chuck_IV

KHLS97 said:


> I have to admit.. I am a little disappointed with the R10. It's great to have twice as many hours as I did previously, but the menu screens are more dull, and the text is definitely fuzzy compared to the HDVR2... Still, I got a good deal so I guess I can't complain that much..


Hmm, I just installed a new R10 last night, in place of an older series 1 Hughes GXCEBOTD and I thought the opposite. The menus are sharper(and a heck of alot faster) and the picture quality seems noticeably better.

Granted I'm going from a series 1 to a series 2.5, but I still see people say their series 1 was clearer. Not in my case.


----------



## DarkAudit

MikeekiM said:


> I have scanned the entire thread (great review, and informative posts!)...
> 
> Quick question which I didn't see covered (though I may have missed it): Does the R10 have the issue of remote hangs? That is, sometimes both my SAT-T60 and HDVR2 units become non-responsive to remote commands... The keystrokes (or at least some of them) seem to get buffered during the "hang", which sometimes lasts for a good 20-30 seconds...
> 
> Thanks!


I've seen similar remote issues with both my Hughes and Samsung receivers. In my case, it was usually a sign that the batteries in the remote were going dead. Once i put in fresh batteries, the problem went away.


----------



## Ogie00

Just a quick(probably stupid) question about the R10. I noticed that when I put the R10 in STANDBY, both lights continously flash a faint red and the fan/HD(?) continue to make some noise. Is this normal for the R10? My other receivers don't do this when I put in standby.


----------



## MyAllyCat

Ogie00... My R10 does the same thing. No worries though it's just this model of dvr.

Jana


----------



## Stevo

Any update on the activation of the USB port for ethernet usage?


----------



## ebonovic

Nope... As of yet, no one has found a software hack that will work with the R10.
They still require a hardware modification to keep hacks in place.


----------



## csigrissum

Hi all;
New member, read most of the posts here.  
Thanks Ebonovic for an awesome review!!! :up: 
I just switched to Directv from Dish, and one of my Tv.s, (19" Coax input) has blurry menus (I curently have the D10). I have some questions about the R10.

Should I expect clearer menu's from the R10?
Does the R10 have caller-id?
Can I record from the R10 to my DVDR?
Since I just switched to Directv 2 weeks ago, should I expect the rebate?

Yesterday, I was researching those questions, and discovered that they have an R15 coming. (August 1? delayed till Sept?)
Is it worth waiting? or should I go for the R10? What advantages would the R15 have? Should I expect another delay?

Thanks All. 
Ben


----------



## ebonovic

Two answer your questions:

1) Some people have reported blurry menus... but on a 19", you shouldn't see much blur. Check your coax cable and connection. I have mine on a 36" via Coax, and the menu's are not blurry.
2) No DirecTivo has on-screen caller id (that includes the R10). The soon to be released R15 (a non-Tivo powerd DVR) will have on Screen Caller-ID
3) If you are refering to the $100 rebate that starts in two weeks, then no. If your vendor offered you somethng else... check with them.
4) Well we don't have a SET confirmed in cement date for the R15, so you could be waiting 4 weeks, or 4 months.... we don't just know.

There are a bunch of threads listing the features of the R15, and it is hard to say yet what is advantagous with the R15... until we have it in our hands, we just have the manual and "spec" sheets to discuss.


----------



## csigrissum

Thanks again.

Not to be picky- but you missed one  
Can I later copy from the R10 to a DVDr?


I assume yes, but your showed a screen that makes me unsure..


----------



## ebonovic

csigrissum said:


> Thanks again.
> 
> Not to be picky- but you missed one
> Can I later copy from the R10 to a DVDr?
> 
> I assume yes, but your showed a screen that makes me unsure..


Sorry, yes... You should have no issues.


----------



## csigrissum

Thanks


----------



## NCAA football

Hello all..........

Just got the R10 a couple days ago (my 1st Tivo of any kind) & the first thing I noticed was the degraded PQ as compared to the RCA DTV receiver that I got with my system 3 years ago. I have a Mitsu. WS-55315 set & have the R10 hooked up with the same S-vid cable I had on the RCA...............basically just swapped the units. It's soft, seemingly unfocused, grainy on some chans ............& reacts almost like it has its own SVM. 

I've read a lot on here before posting but can't seem to find a consensus on a good replacement for this. I realize for $99 I shouldn't expect perfection, but I don't want to accept this PQ as "good enough". I'll spend more if needed, I just thought I'd try this unit since the price was right.

Any suggestions on a unit with a more renowned PQ?


----------



## ebonovic

Pretty much the PQ is the same (for video at least) accross all the DTivos. (Except for the HR10-250).

I haven't had a non-DVR for so long, I can't compare the two.

Try another connection type (the composite or the RF). "what could be" happening is that hte R10 is sending out TOO much detail via the s-video, and your TV is displaying all the flaws in the DirecTV signal. Your SA reciever may have been blurring that a bit.

Else, you could ask DirecTV for a replacement, as it is possible you got a unit with a bad video modulator.

But other then going back to a non-dvr or the HR10-250 (which only has better pq for HD signals), all the rest of the DTivos are about the same.


----------



## NCAA football

Thanks for the reply....................I have my doubts that stepping down to a RCA or RF cable will improve the PQ but I'll try it. If that doesn't help I'll take it back for another. I suspect that the unit probably employs a cheap DAC. Not sure if I can find anything on that but I'll search. Like I said, for $99 it's hard to gripe a whole lot but I'd gladly trade functions for PQ.

Thanks again.


----------



## ebonovic

There is no doubt the R10 was made using cheaper components.
So you could "try" to locate a Series 2 unit (such as a DSR704/708)
As those "supposidly" use more expensive parts.


----------



## NCAA football

Thank you....................I'll check those out.


----------



## twash

I find Earl's review to be accurate and reliable for the R10.

I see no difference in PQ for the R10 versus any of the other generations of DirecTiVo nor the SA TiVo. It all looks the same to me. My Guide stuff is fine too, not overly clear to the eye, but not different from what I am used to seeing with other TiVos.

The slow-moving guide comments...my two R10's seems to move as fast or faster than what I am used to.

The near-freezes that can occur, I believe are simply the result of too many button punches when a person first gets his unit set up and working. During that period when you have just hooked it up, time sort of stands still, and you are a bit panicky because you want the thing to be okay, and you can easily click in more commands on the remote than the operating system can handle, and it causes the system to go really slow. I haven't run into the need to reboot the unit, but I have had to quit pushing buttons so much. I am sure that rebooting will help, but right at the time it will make you miss something you want to see. I find that if you don't get carried away pushing buttons, you won't get the slow-downs. I also expect that I could make a rebooted machine go slow again if I continued pushing too many buttons too quickly...

Networking? I have a home network, but I don't have nor want my TiVo hooked into it. My PC already occupies more of my time than it should. Heck, I would never get away from this dang PC if I did that. If it is preservation of recordings that a person wants, just get a DVD recorder; they surely are cheap these days. And if a person wants his DirecTivo to do its phone calling online because he doesn't have a land line, that is certainly a valid reason in 2005, and I surely think that it is a mistake for DirecTV to not allow that; however, my two R10's use my land line and they do it very quickly, a whole lot quicker than my old Series 1 Standalones ever did, and they only call in about once per week. The calls are very short, so I really have no reason to go the network/online route for the phone calls with these R10's to my way of thinking. That was another story with the Series 1 SA's.

The important hack is to be able to increase the storage size and we still have that, the other stuff is not for me, is it really for you? I find the other hacks to be just a big consumer of my free time, which I seem to have less and less of as I get older and surround myself with more and more electronic gadgetry.

Being able to do the things that TiVo can do with the TV signal is very important to me, and it could be bad for all of us if DirecTV goofs up in this all important area. I could never go back to watching live TV, but if their new unit, the R15, does most or all the things that TiVo does, then I would have no problem with it except to feel that I had lost an old friend in TiVo. However, in this field of technology, old friends come and go overnight. The onus is actually on TiVo to stay alive, not DirecTV to keep TiVo alive. Our system works but it works best if left to its own devices. Protectionism is another of those things that screws up a pretty good working economic system.


----------



## ebonovic

twash said:


> I find Earl's review to be accurate and reliable for the R10.


Why thank you... (and to all the others that have echoed the same comment)


----------



## csigrissum

Hi all.
I signed up for Directv about 2 weeks ago, and originally chose not to get a DVR.
Since then, I've read alot here and thought about it- and decided it's probably a good thing to get 
I called directv the other day, and asked if the new customer rebate would apply to me, and was told no.. you must get it BEFORE activating.

Well, I just called again and the answer changed... I DO get the rebate.

(btw, I also asked about any other deal coming in August, and she said they don't get that info. [Doesn't hurt to ask!]

Anyway, it looks like I can run out and get one. 

I wonder if the assumed deal starting in August would still be available to me?...


----------



## ebonovic

The deal starting in August is for ALL customers, not just new ones (if you are refering to the $100 rebate).

FYI... since you are new to DirecTV... This is a game we call CSR Roulette... If the first CSR you get doesn't help you the way you think you should be help (not necessarily the way you "want" to be helped)... call back...


----------



## Snapperdude

I have four DirecTivos. Could I replace them all with R10's and get the rebate on all of them. or is there a limit on number of units?

Thanks


----------



## ebonovic

As we have been told, currently there is only 1 $100 per account...

Is anything wrong with the DirecTivos you have? If they are Series 2 units, and they have recieved the 6.2 software upgrade... They are feature identical to the R10s.... plus they are hackable, where the R10 is not.


----------



## csigrissum

ebonovic said:


> The deal starting in August is for ALL customers, not just new ones (if you are refering to the $100 rebate).
> 
> FYI... since you are new to DirecTV... This is a game we call CSR Roulette... If the first CSR you get doesn't help you the way you think you should be help (not necessarily the way you "want" to be helped)... call back...


It seems that what they tell me isn't necessarily what I'll get. I guess I'd find out when the first bill comes.


----------



## Snapperdude

ebonovic said:


> As we have been told, currently there is only 1 $100 per account...
> 
> Is anything wrong with the DirecTivos you have? If they are Series 2 units, and they have recieved the 6.2 software upgrade... They are feature identical to the R10s.... plus they are hackable, where the R10 is not.


One of them is a Sony SAT-T60 that is making a loud, high pitched noise. Two others are older Phillips machines. I don't think any of them have the 6.2 upgrade. I'll have to check. The other was another Sony SAT-T60 that we just had replaced since I last posted. We now have a Samsung in a box waiting to be hooked up.


----------



## mercurial

Snapperdude said:


> One of them is a Sony SAT-T60 that is making a loud, high pitched noise. Two others are older Phillips machines. I don't think any of them have the 6.2 upgrade. I'll have to check. The other was another Sony SAT-T60 that we just had replaced since I last posted. We now have a Samsung in a box waiting to be hooked up.


Same here, one of our SAT-T60's died and we got a Samsong SIR-S4040R as a replacement. It got 6.2 the next day after it was hooked up.


----------



## jangelj

I've read most of the 18 pages of this post, but have a question for you more knowledgeable types.

I wonder if it is worth upgrading from my series 1 HDVR2 unit to an R10? Space is not an issue for me, we keep it relatively empty. My unit seems pretty quick since they did a software update a few months ago, so that's OK with me. 

What other advantages does the R10 have? You can't network it, right? There is no HMO or HME for it. No TTG, either.

Thanks for your $.02
john


----------



## ebonovic

jangelj said:


> I've read most of the 18 pages of this post, but have a question for you more knowledgeable types.
> 
> I wonder if it is worth upgrading from my series 1 HDVR2 unit to an R10? Space is not an issue for me, we keep it relatively empty. My unit seems pretty quick since they did a software update a few months ago, so that's OK with me.
> 
> What other advantages does the R10 have? You can't network it, right? There is no HMO or HME for it. No TTG, either.
> 
> Thanks for your $.02
> john


 I think I covered that on the first page... and that was before the 6.2 release.


Nope... There is no real advantage to dump a working Series 2 unit to get an R10.
You won't see any major differences in speed, and they are feature identical.


----------



## quietwriter

all dtv tivo's have most feature's identical hardly anything different. a working tivo that is not an old generation is as good as any other model currently on the market only real difference is lifespan, warranty, and price in the current offering that makes any difference that i can see. they all get all the same upgrades and all the software is pretty much standardized. the only thing possibly new to the whole thing may be the new r-model that dtv may put out soon ​


----------



## quietwriter

ebonovic said:


> I think I covered that on the first page... and that was before the 6.2 release.
> 
> 
> Nope... There is no real advantage to dump a working Series 2 unit to get an R10.
> You won't see any major differences in speed, and they are feature identical.


all tivo's get the same upgrades all feature so far as software is concerned is the same if how ever the hardware is waring out replace. however your's is fine there would make no difference you would notice


----------



## ebonovic

quietwriter said:


> all tivo's get the same upgrades all feature so far as software is concerned is the same if how ever the hardware is waring out replace. however your's is fine there would make no difference you would notice


Welcome to the forums....

Actually, that is not true.

The Series 1 DTivos have hit their end of life cycle, and don't get any more updates. They are done with the 3.0c version... which doesn't include 72 SAT support, nor folders, nor any of the performance increases we have seen with 6.2

*IF* DirecTV ever introduces Networking support.. the Series 1's won't be included in that... (lack of USB)..

As for the R10 (Series 2.5) and the Series 2 units... Pretty much they will probably stay in sync feature wise going forward, pretty much because of the volume of units out in production.

As for the R15.... new platform, new hardware, new software.... All previously rules wouldn't apply to it.


----------



## Tburt

ebonovic said:


> Pretty much the PQ is the same (for video at least) accross all the DTivos. (Except for the HR10-250).
> 
> I haven't had a non-DVR for so long, I can't compare the two.
> 
> Try another connection type (the composite or the RF). "what could be" happening is that hte R10 is sending out TOO much detail via the s-video, and your TV is displaying all the flaws in the DirecTV signal. Your SA reciever may have been blurring that a bit.
> 
> Else, you could ask DirecTV for a replacement, as it is possible you got a unit with a bad video modulator.
> 
> But other then going back to a non-dvr or the HR10-250 (which only has better pq for HD signals), all the rest of the DTivos are about the same.


Also as stated many times before in other DTV/DBS threads by many others folks ...people need to make sure their TV's sharpness is not turned up too high. I noticed that just about all DTV receivers (Tivo or not) have blurry menus when it is turned up. Some worse than others, plus it brings a lot more digital compression artifacts. The menus are the first to show signs of too much sharpness with blurry menus. I can make my menus on my regular DTV receivers and DTivos blurry when I turn it up really high on my on Sony 27 inch SDTV Trinitron set. I had a previous roommate that did it to my Sony 27 trinitron/non-Tivo DTV unit, and it took a while to figure out why the menus were all of the sudden hard to read. Some TVs are more sensitive to blazing sharpness levels. My Sanyo 32inch SDTV is not as bad with menus/sharpness/blurry as my Sony so YMMV. I wonder if this is why some R10s folks are having blurry menus/lower PQ while others are not? Maybe the R10 needs even less sharpness than Series 2 Tivos on some or all TVs? TVs are normally shipped with all the settings turned up way to high, so the R10s might just be making it more noticable. I would recommend anyone having blurry menus try tuning the sharpness levels down to see if that helps at all. It's worth a try.


----------



## KHLS97

This is a good suggestion. I'll have to try it later..


----------



## el Dragon

Quick question, does the R-10 update over the phone line for Sat... I'm reading conflicting statements. If the R-10 does up date via the sat then a phone line is almost useless. I wouldn't bother even with a PPP set up....


----------



## el Dragon

Tburt said:


> Also as stated many times before in other DTV/DBS threads by many others folks ...people need to make sure their TV's sharpness is not turned up too high. I noticed that just about all DTV receivers (Tivo or not) have blurry menus when it is turned up. Some worse than others, plus it brings a lot more digital compression artifacts. The menus are the first to show signs of too much sharpness with blurry menus. I can make my menus on my regular DTV receivers and DTivos blurry when I turn it up really high on my on Sony 27 inch SDTV Trinitron set. I had a previous roommate that did it to my Sony 27 trinitron/non-Tivo DTV unit, and it took a while to figure out why the menus were all of the sudden hard to read. Some TVs are more sensitive to blazing sharpness levels. My Sanyo 32inch SDTV is not as bad with menus/sharpness/blurry as my Sony so YMMV. I wonder if this is why some R10s folks are having blurry menus/lower PQ while others are not? Maybe the R10 needs even less sharpness than Series 2 Tivos on some or all TVs? TVs are normally shipped with all the settings turned up way to high, so the R10s might just be making it more noticable. I would recommend anyone having blurry menus try tuning the sharpness levels down to see if that helps at all. It's worth a try.


This is a good point.. I too have a Sony wega SD and it has edge enhacements, which acts as a type of sharpness for borders/edges. I have read on other sites that this should be turned to low for off. Sat signals as so sharp to begin with that it isn't nessesary and can even distort the picture quality. Once I replaced one of the D-10 for a R-10 I adjusted the settings and looks real good now. I can't really tell much of a difference between my other D-10's and my new R-10. Im pretty happy with the R-10 especially after the rebate.


----------



## Anopro

My R-10 picture is much softer than my old RCA Ultimate TV unit tried SVHS, RCA and RF no difference seems strange always had a sharp picture from all my DTV receivers in the past, is it because of cheap parts. I wouldnt doubt it considering I got it for free?


----------



## Warren

is there any kind of HMO yet for Directv or is Directv keeping that for there unit?


----------



## ebonovic

Nope and Nope...

There is no HMO features for the r10 (or any DirecTivo without hacking)
And as of right now, DirecTV has not announced any networking for their R15


----------



## dslunceford

ebonovic said:


> I think I covered that on the first page... and that was before the 6.2 release.
> 
> 
> Nope... There is no real advantage to dump a working Series 2 unit to get an R10.
> You won't see any major differences in speed, and they are feature identical.


Haven't visited the forum in a while, so forgive if I'm Smeeking, but this week's Circuit City flyer shows an 70 hr R10 for free ($100 - $100 rebate), and HDvr2's (30 hours) are still eBaying for $40 or so. I'm looking at flipping out my unhacked bedroom HDVR2 for the R10 to get double the space at no cost (or even a profit).

(the CC ad doesn't specify it's new customers only, though it might be...)


----------



## ebonovic

The $100 rebate is for both new and old...

If you want hacking... then HDVR2 is the way to go...


----------



## cdrobot

dslunceford said:


> Haven't visited the forum in a while, so forgive if I'm Smeeking, but this week's Circuit City flyer shows an 70 hr R10 for free ($100 - $100 rebate), and HDvr2's (30 hours) are still eBaying for $40 or so. I'm looking at flipping out my unhacked bedroom HDVR2 for the R10 to get double the space at no cost (or even a profit).
> 
> (the CC ad doesn't specify it's new customers only, though it might be...)


Really...I can get an R10 for free? I went to Circuit City's website but I didn't see a rebate for the R10. I have an HDVR2 but would like to get the R10 for the 70 hours.


----------



## ebonovic

The rebate is from DirecTV... It is available on any of the DVR products.


----------



## paulfife

Make sure you read the fine print too. The rebate requires a TWO YEAR commitment.


----------



## ebonovic

Any DVR activation now require a TWO YEAR commitment, not just because you get the rebate.

Any NON-DVR activation requires a ONE YEAR commitment.


----------



## dslunceford

Strange. I wasn't given anything to sign other than the cc slip and there's nothing on the slip about the rebate or any additional commitment (though the person helping did run me through and enter my name/address/DTV info into the system as an existing customer). 

I was simply told that after one billing cycle, the $100 would be rebated and/or credited to my account.

If someone else has taken up CC on this deal, did you get a different receipt that spelled out the rebate and any associated terms? Who else is doing this deal? I had called DTV directly and they weren't offering it directly.


----------



## ebonovic

The rebate is through DirecTV... You may or may not get a Rebate form from your vendor..
The rebate form can be downloaded via the DirecTV website.

The 2 year agreement should be explained to you upon activation of the unit.
If not, check your bill... It will probably be there as a line item.


----------



## Sunapee

ebonovic said:


> The rebate is through DirecTV... You may or may not get a Rebate form from your vendor..
> The rebate form can be downloaded via the DirecTV website.
> 
> The 2 year agreement should be explained to you upon activation of the unit.
> If not, check your bill... It will probably be there as a line item.


OK, let me ask the stupid question to make sure I am getting this right. I picked up a DVR40 Open Box from BestBuy ($70) last week, but have not activated it yet. WHen I activate it, I am automatically extending my commitment for an additional 2 years on me DirectTV Contract? I had not planned on utilizing the rebate, because I think it may be better to use my expired contract term as leverage towards a HD unit early next year.

Sounds like I should send in the rebate and at pocket the $30 I saved on the Open Box.


----------



## ebonovic

Yes... you extended your contract for 2 years.

BUT... You can still get the rebate...
(If you don't have your recipiet, you can get BestBuy to print you a new one if you paid by CC)

DirecTV has the rebate forms on their website (somewhere).
Or just call customer service for DirecTV, and tell them you just found out about the rebate, bought the unit a week ago, and would like to get the rebate.


----------



## el Dragon

will the R-10 get 6.2 and if it does what are the differences....


----------



## ebonovic

There are no functional difference between 6.1 and 6.2


----------



## el Dragon

whats the latest on the R-15


----------



## desmondlewissmit

I'm new, and this is probably a stupid question, but I'm wondering about the Networking capabilities with the R10

Ultimately, I would love to be able to transfer movies between my two R10's or save them to a CD/DVD via network.

Is this possible yet with some of the hacks? If not, is there currently a direct tv DVR that this is possible with?


----------



## rusticusa

I reduced the sharpness on my JVC 32" and the TiVo screens are perfectly clear, and the artifacts are all but gone!


----------



## andrewintucson

I understand that on some Tivos you can schedule programs to record over the internet. 

How does that work with DirecTV's Tivo?

I'm assuming you can't schedule something to record "now" because the Tivo won't pick up the new info until it makes its next call home, correct?

Thanks,

Andy In Tucson


----------



## ebonovic

No DirecTivo support NETWORKING features (unhacked)

The SA-Tivos do support networking, and have the programming via the Internet available.
DirecTivos don't have that feature available.

R10's can not be hacked to install TiVoWeb which would "kinda" give you that functionality. But the R10 can't do it.

Also, your DirecTivo's don't "call home" in the same fashion that the SA-TiVo's do. It get's its upated guide information via the SAT.


----------



## robtech

ebonovic said:


> No DirecTivo support NETWORKING features (unhacked)
> 
> The SA-Tivos do support networking, and have the programming via the Internet available.
> DirecTivos don't have that feature available.
> 
> R10's can not be hacked to install TiVoWeb which would "kinda" give you that functionality. But the R10 can't do it.
> 
> Also, your DirecTivo's don't "call home" in the same fashion that the SA-TiVo's do. It get's its upated guide information via the SAT.


I have a 30 hour or so Tivo from Direct TV. I want a Series 2 from Tivo that works with Satellite but they say I can't have it activated through Direct TV? Is this correct?
I want the Series 2 with all the networking and WebToGo stuff!


----------



## ebonovic

Yes, most SA-Tivos will work with a SA reciever from DirecTV...
You will usually need to purchase a serial link cable from the TiVo Store, to connect your SA Tivo to your DirecTV SA Box.

However: You will be paying about $200 upfront for the SA Tivo (they are $49 - $150 rebate), $12.99 a month for the service. Will only have 1 tuner, and the "80 hour" version is actually like 30 hours when recording on best quality, which is lower then DirecTV quality most of the time.

Look around the forum... You will see that all models of DirecTivos (except the R10) can be hacked to some degree, to give you networking and "web" style stuff.

If you plans are for the Tivo2Go for DVD burning, you will probably be better off getting an DVD Recorder (for about $99).


----------



## robtech

ok. I need to see what model Tivo I currently have. 
The DVR from Direct TV that is advertised on it's site now for current users, is that an R10? Doesn't say model number, how many hours of record time?


----------



## robtech

ebonovic said:


> Yes, most SA-Tivos will work with a SA reciever from DirecTV...
> You will usually need to purchase a serial link cable from the TiVo Store, to connect your SA Tivo to your DirecTV SA Box.
> 
> However: You will be paying about $200 upfront for the SA Tivo (they are $49 - $150 rebate), $12.99 a month for the service. Will only have 1 tuner, and the "80 hour" version is actually like 30 hours when recording on best quality, which is lower then DirecTV quality most of the time.
> 
> Look around the forum... You will see that all models of DirecTivos (except the R10) can be hacked to some degree, to give you networking and "web" style stuff.
> 
> If you plans are for the Tivo2Go for DVD burning, you will probably be better off getting an DVD Recorder (for about $99).


I really want to be able to get the Mpeg's off the Tivo so I can burn them.
Keep them as MPeg or use some software to convert to Divx.


----------



## ebonovic

robtech said:


> I really want to be able to get the Mpeg's off the Tivo so I can burn them.
> Keep them as MPeg or use some software to convert to Divx.


That can be done with DTivos... but that is we can say about here on this forum...

As for the SAs... The Tivo2Go "technically" will not allow that either (saving to Divx), they use a propritary "keyed" codec for the video files.

It can be done as well though...


----------



## sanjokidd

Call me crazy but why is the guide so slow to load.. Will the updated this slow guide in the future?


----------



## dslchiphead

Yeah. It's almost unbearable. I asked the same question when I got my R10. Most replies come back as "I do not watch live TV anymore so I do not use the guide much".


----------



## sanjokidd

dslchiphead said:


> Yeah. It's almost unbearable. I asked the same question when I got my R10. Most replies come back as "I do not watch live TV anymore so I do not use the guide much".


But I love Live TV!!!!! I just got the DVR incase I miss a show which I always do...

Oh Well.... I love the DVR but hate the guide wish we could minimized the guide so you can watch tv while seen whats on other channels... like Comcast or the Hughes Guide..


----------



## ebonovic

Reboot your R10.... There is something that occurs that cause it to go very slow, after it's first few day.

But even then... it is still slow after that.... They have increased it a LOT since the first releases, but it is no where near being "fast" compared to other units.


----------



## Matt9876

Due to the rebate promotion R-10s are selling like hot cakes. DTV is booking many long term contracts.


----------



## sanjokidd

They got me for 2 years !!!


----------



## lonewoolf47

sanjokidd said:


> Call me crazy but why is the guide so slow to load.. Will the updated this slow guide in the future?


When i press the guide button it responds instantly.


----------



## kurtangle

my R10 buzzes/vibrates a lot. 

It has done this straight out of the box. It will be fine and then just start buzzing louder and louder. I have to go lightly press on the top with my hand in a few different spots to get it to stop.

Placing a heavy magazine on top also fixes the problem.

Anybody else have this problem?


----------



## ebonovic

Hmm... haven't heard that one before.

If you are willing to... crack the case, and make sure that the FAN is tight against the back housing, and make sure that all 4 of the screws holding the hard drive in are tight (two Drive -> Bracket; 2: Bracket -> Frame)


----------



## Talon

What company actually manufactures the R10?


----------



## chet8888

I've got a Series 2, 35 hour Hughes Directivo. Lately, noticed that the picture will freeze/lockup during playback. It's like I hit PAUSE, but I haven't- and I have to FF a few frames, and then sometimes the problem reoccurs, sometimes not for the rest of the program. Weather, or issues with the satellite picture aren't the culprit. Menus and guides all work fine. Haven't noticed the problem on viewing live tv.

So, I'm afraid perhaps the drive is failing?

And I realize that the $100 rebate is ending by 11/5, which is only a few weeks away.

Has anyone else had this issue? Should I switch out and get a new R-10 for basically free?

Thanks


----------



## chet8888

Another question about the Rebate, and probably a stupid one. 

The 2 year commitment- -you still pay each month for the service, right? Not like they bill you the 49.99 X 24 months on day one.

Just making sure.


----------



## DTV TiVo Dealer

The $100 DVR mail-in rebate has been extended till 2/28/06.

-Robert


----------



## jfh3

chet8888 said:


> Another question about the Rebate, and probably a stupid one.
> 
> The 2 year commitment- -you still pay each month for the service, right? Not like they bill you the 49.99 X 24 months on day one.
> 
> Just making sure.


Correct. You pay monthly. Unless you cancel service before your 24 month commitment is up.


----------



## lisa_grecco

When your purchase/activate the R10 you are agreeing to a 2 year service contract. If you cancel the service on the R10 you will have to pay a prorated $300 penalty.

But the contract states: IN LIEU OF PAYMENT, YOU HAVE AN OPTION TO SEND YOUR DIRECTV SYSTEM TO DIRECTV.

So purchase an R10 for $100, get a $100 rebate, and if you ever want to cancel your programming for your R10 simply cancel the programming & send the R10 (which cost you $0) to DTV. You will then have no commitment to DTV & only be out the shipping cost.


----------



## cpiercew

I am really disappointed about the lack of support for network access and the ability to move recordings from the DVR to another tivo. - I know the system can support it, DirectTV just doesnt want to allow it. 

This is another example of how they will find another way to charge more later for something customers already get for free today with different equipment. The free offer is to paint customers into a corner so they are stuck later with whatever DTV wants to charge for those features.

Is anyone hearing anything different???? - Are there solutions out there yet that will let this thing work like other tivo units?


----------



## paulfife

cpiercew said:


> I am really disappointed about the lack of support for network access and the ability to move recordings from the DVR to another tivo. - I know the system can support it, DirectTV just doesnt want to allow it.
> 
> This is another example of how they will find another way to charge more later for something customers already get for free today with different equipment. The free offer is to paint customers into a corner so they are stuck later with whatever DTV wants to charge for those features.
> 
> Is anyone hearing anything different???? - Are there solutions out there yet that will let this thing work like other tivo units?


You might have a point if DirecTV wasn't charging a fraction of what everyone else pays.


----------



## ebonovic

cpiercew said:


> . The free offer is to paint customers into a corner so they are stuck later with whatever DTV wants to charge for those features.


I think you find a good number of users... Me included, that would be willing to pay a modest additonal fee for native (un-hacked) networking support.


----------



## Dawghows

This may be a completely idiotic question, but here goes anyway:

S'pose I buy an R10 to replace the S1 SA in my bedroom. Currently, I only have one feed from the dish in that room, because I only had a standard reciever installed in there. Will the R10 work with only the one feed until I can get the 2nd feed added?


----------



## SpacemanSpiff

It will work just fine using only one tuner.


----------



## mssykes

I was just wondering on the R10 DirectDVR unit can you record to an external hard drive via the USB port?

Thanks for any response in advance.

mssykes


----------



## ebonovic

Nope... No DirecTivo (or Tivo for that matter) can talk to an external USB Port


----------



## dj2cohen

DTV TiVo Dealer said:


> The $100 DVR mail-in rebate has been extended till 2/28/06.
> 
> -Robert


How solid is your information? I am by no means trying to argue with you, just curious.

The D* website still lists the expiration date as 11-5-05. The expiration date is going to influence whether I jump on an R-10 or wait and see what the R-15 is like.

Thanks.


----------



## DTV TiVo Dealer

dj2cohen said:


> How solid is your information? I am by no means trying to argue with you, just curious.
> 
> The D* website still lists the expiration date as 11-5-05. The expiration date is going to influence whether I jump on an R-10 or wait and see what the R-15 is like.
> 
> Thanks.


100% guarantied. I know the DIRECTV site says 11/5/05 as does almost all of my competitors, but I am 100% sure it has been officially extended by DIRECTV.

-Robert


----------



## db54

DTV TiVo Dealer said:


> 100% guarantied. I know the DIRECTV site says 11/5/05 as does almost all of my competitors, but I am 100% sure it has been officially extended by DIRECTV.
> 
> -Robert


Robert's assumption appears to be correct :up: if you have seen D*'s latest commercial which advertises the new R15, you will notice that in the " rebate terms & conditions" located at the bottom of the video, it clearly states 2/28/06


----------



## danbardon

My new R-10 is a replacement for an RCA "Ultimate TV" receiver. It had a 30 second skip button and 10 second back skip button. I can't find any mention of a 30 second skip in the R-10 manual. I will say that when I fast forward through commercials and see a frame from the show I want to return to, the unit will stop and "skip back" to the end of the commercial break to allow me to return to the program right before it begins. Is that the "30 second skip" you said was working in your review of the R-10? 

Do you know if you where I can post suggested improvements to the tivo program. I really miss featured I took for granted when I had Ultimate TV.


----------



## jonaswan2

danbardon said:


> My new R-10 is a replacement for an RCA "Ultimate TV" receiver. It had a 30 second skip button and 10 second back skip button. I can't find any mention of a 30 second skip in the R-10 manual. I will say that when I fast forward through commercials and see a frame from the show I want to return to, the unit will stop and "skip back" to the end of the commercial break to allow me to return to the program right before it begins. Is that the "30 second skip" you said was working in your review of the R-10?
> 
> Do you know if you where I can post suggested improvements to the tivo program. I really miss featured I took for granted when I had Ultimate TV.


Well for one, you can get true 30 second skip using the TiVo with the use of a code. Since I don't use it, I couldn't tell you what it is.

For two, DirecTV has dropped TiVo and I would expect to many updates for it, if any.


----------



## ebonovic

jonaswan2 said:


> For two, DirecTV has dropped TiVo and I would expect to many updates for it, if any.


For two point 1... DirecTV has NOT dropped TiVo... TiVo is still a product that DirecTV supports and will sell. The contract is 2007...

Yes, they are offering an alternative DVR then a TiVo based one... but DirecTV has *NOT* dropped TiVo...

As for the 30 second skip... do a search in the forum and you will find the code.


----------



## jonaswan2

ebonovic said:


> For two point 1... DirecTV has NOT dropped TiVo... TiVo is still a product that DirecTV supports and will sell. The contract is 2007...
> 
> Yes, they are offering an alternative DVR then a TiVo based one... but DirecTV has *NOT* dropped TiVo...
> 
> As for the 30 second skip... do a search in the forum and you will find the code.


I didn't really mean it like that. Like they have pushed TiVo off of the side of a cliff. I meant it like they will no longer be advertise it and will probably look back on it as soon as their in house product is released. When they said they will support the TiVo, I'm pretty sure that meant they will fix a problem you have with it until atleast 2007. And you know just as well as I do that DirecTV will try their hardest not to give you a TiVo, even if you specifically ask for one.

I seriously doubt that there will be to many updates for the R10.


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## morgantown

While I doubt DTV will actively promote Tivo, I also doubt equally they will try to peeve their most loyal (i.e., least amount of churn and higher per subscriber revenue) customers. Will they push their own product to contain an extra buck ($1.13) of revenue per box not going to Tivo? 

Of course they will. But if you really want a Tivo, DTV is not going to resist THAT much. They still support UTV for goodness sake!

Back to the R10 subject matter...and the code for the 30 second skip is S-P-S-3-0-S.


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## SpacemanSpiff

Conversely right now if you call D* and order a DVR it's pot luck what you get. R10, Samsung etc. Whatever the installer has in stock. There is no way to guarantee what you'll get.

Sure they'll support TiVo etc. But as they have shown in the past, you get what they feel like sending you.


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## timn2bama

Hello I'm new here ! I just bought a r10 and was wondering if there is a wireless network option for it ? Because, I use AT&T broadband for my phone and it will not connect to the DVR home office. I have read I can put dialing prefix for other models dvr ,but didn't know if this would work for the r10.


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## jonaswan2

timn2bama said:


> Hello I'm new here ! I just bought a r10 and was wondering if there is a wireless network option for it ? Because, I use AT&T broadband for my phone and it will not connect to the DVR home office. I have read I can put dialing prefix for other models dvr ,but didn't know if this would work for the r10.


For the intial Dial in you will need to go over a friend or neighbors house with a land line. After that I've heard it works fine with VoIP services (I wouldn't know since I still use a land line).


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## csigrissum

Slightly - off topic...
Will discussions of R15 continue here (tivocomunity) since it's not TIVO?


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## ebonovic

Yes, there have been many other threads talking about the future of R15 talk here.

It will be allowed for a while, but then eventually it will have to go else where.

The Review for the R15 will be posted here, once it is completed.


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## barnburner

I've been well satisfied with my R10, but, the last couple of weeks, I've run into a problem. I'm getting occasions of what appears to be a breakup in signal. Like these little areas of "raindrops" for lack of a better term - similar to what you get when the signal starts to breakup due to a storm, but not all over the picture, usually just in one area. 
When I play dvds, or vcr tapes, bypassing the R10 - the problem goes away, so I know it's not the television.
It's weird, but I was hoping that possibly someone else had run across a similar problem, and had a suggestion.
thanks.


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## borg256

mine does it new out of the box the picture breaks up like rain fade then comes back.. It seems to do it when ever it wants to... I just got my r10 because my old samsung direct tivo died,, i never had a problem with it and i never have a problem with my other one its a hughs.. I was gonna go back and swap it but it seems like they all do it hmmm


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## Dawghows

borg256 said:


> ... I was gonna go back and swap it but it seems like they all do it hmmm


 Mine doesn't. At least it hasn't yet. I've had it about 3 weeks now, and I've noticed no problems of any kind. I must say it is not our main TiVo, so we only watch it three or four times a week -- or, maybe better said, only two or three hours a week. Still, up to this point in time it's been perfectly okay. (Although I'm sure I've jinxed it now that I've posted this.)


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## tivo4prs

This is my first post as I have just purchased my first DVR(Directv DVR R10). Currently I have a Sony HDTV(42"A10) ,and an RCA tv. My dish is the round with a dual head. Its my understanding that I can get the 3x4 mutiswitch in order to get the two tuner function on my HDTV, and use the multiswitch to feed the RCA tv in another room on the RCA DRD303RA Directv receiver with one of the other RF outputs of the multiswitch. I intend to use the other RCA Directv receiver that I replaced with the new R10, to connect a new third TV in another room with the other RF output of the 3x4 mutiswitch and activate that receiver.
Am I missing something? Will this hookup work? Suggestions would be welcome for this oldtimer (74) with his first DVR.


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## Budget_HT

tivo4prs said:


> This is my first post as I have just purchased my first DVR(Directv DVR R10). Currently I have a Sony HDTV(42"A10) ,and an RCA tv. My dish is the round with a dual head. Its my understanding that I can get the 3x4 mutiswitch in order to get the two tuner function on my HDTV, and use the multiswitch to feed the RCA tv in another room on the RCA DRD303RA Directv receiver with one of the other RF outputs of the multiswitch. I intend to use the other RCA Directv receiver that I replaced with the new R10, to connect a new third TV in another room with the other RF output of the 3x4 mutiswitch and activate that receiver.
> Am I missing something? Will this hookup work? Suggestions would be welcome for this oldtimer (74) with his first DVR.


Sounds like you understand it correctly.

To recap, both coax leads from the dish go to the inputs on the multiswitch and the outputs of the MS can feeed the two R10 inputs and the RCA input.

Good luck.


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## tivo4prs

tivo4prs said:


> This is my first post as I have just purchased my first DVR(Directv DVR R10). Currently I have a Sony HDTV(42"A10) ,and an RCA tv. My dish is the round with a dual head. Its my understanding that I can get the 3x4 mutiswitch in order to get the two tuner function on my HDTV, and use the multiswitch to feed the RCA tv in another room on the RCA DRD303RA Directv receiver with one of the other RF outputs of the multiswitch. I intend to use the other RCA Directv receiver that I replaced with the new R10, to connect a new third TV in another room with the other RF output of the 3x4 mutiswitch and activate that receiver.
> Am I missing something? Will this hookup work? Suggestions would be welcome for this oldtimer (74) with his first DVR.


I forgot to add that I also have an OTA that is now hooked up to my new HDTV set so that I can watch available HDTV programs. On the 3 x4 multiswitch there is the input marked OTA antenna input. I am confused as to what I should do. Two of my TV sets sometimes use the OTA signals. Do I disconnect the OTA from the sets and run it to the input of the multiswitch. Then what do I run to the two TV sets for the OTA connections?
It appears that I maybe misunderstanding the use of the 3rd input of the 3x4 multiswitch. Comments are welcomed.


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## tbh999

The third input on a 3x4 multiswitch is for the antenna. Essentially, the multiswitch has a built in diplexer that combines the OTA signal on to the SAT cables going to the receivers. You will need to pick-up a diplexer ($5 to $15) for each TV you want to separate the signal out for. 

So the mutiswitch combines the SAT of OTA signals and you need use diplexter to separate the signals at the other end. 

Also, if you have an HD DirecTV unit you really should be using a 3 LNB dish with a 5 x 4 (or 5 x 6, or 5 x ...) multiswitch. On a 5 x switch, four of the inputs are for the SAT and one is for the OTA signal).


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## mrmarr46

Hi dose anyone know where I might get a User Manual for my new RS-TX 20? I bought it new never used but there was no manual. Thank You Paul


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## cherry ghost

Is there a way to use this unit without a land-line?


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## ebonovic

Only after you get it to a land-line to do it's first two phone calls... Then you can use it without any phone line at all.

Do a search for PPP Serial for some other options.


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## cherry ghost

ebonovic said:


> Only after you get it to a land-line to do it's first two phone calls... Then you can use it without any phone line at all.
> 
> Do a search for PPP Serial for some other options.


The first two calls have already been made. I'm thinking about getting rid of my land-line. Is PPP serial the only solution? Thanks.


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## ebonovic

After the first two... your unit doesn't "really" need to call in again.
You will get a daily nag message though telling you to have it call in.

Other than that, with an R10... PPP Serial is the only other option (unless you try some of the VoIP options, and those are hit and miss)


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## cherry ghost

ebonovic said:


> After the first two... your unit doesn't "really" need to call in again.
> You will get a daily nag message though telling you to have it call in.
> 
> Other than that, with an R10... PPP Serial is the only other option (unless you try some of the VoIP options, and those are hit and miss)


Thanks


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## ychoward

Help, I just purchased a SONY DVD Recorder & VHS Combo Player RDR-VX515. 

I have Directv DVR R10 and a GE tv with only one set of the red/yellow/white connection and antenna connection. None of the instructions actually show the back of my DVR - I needed your pictures. Can anyone advise how to hook up the Sony - simply. So far when I go to play a movie on the Sony I get sound but no picture? Thanks


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## noid370

I still dont understand why the R10 is so popular. can somebody point me in the right direction where I can find out why the R10 is so popular?


I have 3 of them and have been considering selling them on CL. But I keep reading that people are having a hard time finding them and tons of people want them. But I cant find a reason why they want it.


can somebody help me out here please? thanks


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## ebonovic

Wow... talk about digging up an old thread.

The R10 was the newest/latest/last SD-DirecTV made.
It is probably the most "popular" because it was the latest one sold in any promotions.

It certainly is the "least" popular, becasue other then a hard drive upgrade. it is not hackable unless you are good with a soldering gun.

People want a DTiVo...not necessarily the R10

The HR10... is a different beast, it is the only TiVo powered HD DVR that works on DirecTV.


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## ctromp

I just have SD from DirecTV and I didn't like the many "attributes" of the R15 and wanted something else and love the TIVO interface. The only other inexpensive option for DTV is the R10 (other than older used models on ebay etc.). I got mine brand new for $60 from Compusa with no lease or contracts. I've had no problems with the R10 unlike my experience with the R15. Sure I'd love an HR10-250... but not for the $300+ price tag they are going for new. That's why I bought my R10. If/when the HR10 comes down in price I'll probably snag one of them too.


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## restino

Are they still selling R10's at stores? Any idea how much?

Too bad we can't turn our old simple D* receivers and a spare hardrive into a tivo unit - seems like all the parts are there


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## Dkerr24

restino said:


> Are they still selling R10's at stores? Any idea how much?
> 
> Too bad we can't turn our old simple D* receivers and a spare hardrive into a tivo unit - seems like all the parts are there


R10's are still in some Wal-warts for $99.

Your last statement sounds like any of dozens of different types of software that allows you to record programs with a PC.


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## ctromp

restino said:


> Are they still selling R10's at stores? Any idea how much?


If you're lucky you might find one at your local Walmart for $99. I just replaced my 1.5 month old R10 (that I purchased brand new) with an HR10-250 so I have a basically brand new R10 available.


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## restino

how much you want for them, my friend?


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## barnburner

I'm not sure if anyone is reading this forum anymore - but what the heck. Recently, I noticed that my R10 wasn't recording my season passes. When I checked the "programs to record", the season passes showed up - but no upcoming episodes were listed, so nothing was getting recorded. I've unplugged the unit for a few minutes, rebooted, and then the episodes showup again, and everything works ok for a couple of days- then it starts all over.
Been doing this for about 2 weeks now.
Any ideas?
Thanks.
mike


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## John T Smith

Lots of people reading... and writing

Season Pass Problems
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=332166

More on SPP - Bad Guide Data
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=332358

Random Restarts Due to DirecTv?
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=333247

And Yet More on Random Restarts
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=333005


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## dan_isaacs

Apologies for bumping this, but DTV just sent me a refurbed R10 after my Power supply went bad in my hdrv40. I didn't think they were even shipping Tivos anymore.


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## litzdog911

dan_isaacs said:


> Apologies for bumping this, but DTV just sent me a refurbed R10 after my Power supply went bad in my hdrv40. I didn't think they were even shipping Tivos anymore.


I guess they get some back every so often and use them to replace other defective DirecTV/Tivo DVRs.


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## packerfan

dan_isaacs said:


> Apologies for bumping this, but DTV just sent me a refurbed R10 after my Power supply went bad in my hdrv40. I didn't think they were even shipping Tivos anymore.


It is probably a refurbished unit. They don't have any new r10s available.


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## wolflord11

R10 production ceased awhile back, so no doubt its a refurbished unit.

Sometimes you can get lucky and get an R10 from Directv, but it is not very often.


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## cudooza

I was just offered an R-10 from Directv to replace my old Hughes Tivo that is dying.


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## coolerboy98

Direct TV just sent me a R10 as a replacement to my Hughes SD 40 that just died. I was surprised when I called up DirectTV that they said they'd try to get me a Tivo unit instead of their DVR. I was pretty glad that Direct TV was able to do that. It's definitely a refurb. So far I'm not impressed too impressed with it though. So far it seems to be mostly the same in operation as my old unmodified unit, but I'm reserving judgment until it's formed more of a track record in my living room. I will be getting my old unit repaired and back into operation though as soon as I figure out the best company to perform it.


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## miraclegro

I just received my refurbed R10 to replace my DVR40. I don't care that it's refurbed, I'm just glad I could still use Tivo. So far so good - it's not showing a lot of shows yet on the guide - still has to download data I suppose.

Do I just throw away my SDDVR40? It seems like such a waste to throw it away. I know NOTHING about rebuilding, etc. Is it worth selling to someone (I know you can't sell here), but not sure if it would even be worth it to someone else?

Forgive me if I'm not supposed to talk about selling.


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## sjlush

I have an SDDVR40 that takes an hour to get past the welcome screen and then gets stuck forever at the "Just a few minutes more" screen. The box was working fine, I unplugged it for 3 months during some construction and when I powered it back up, It got stuck. I've rebooted a few times, but always the same. Any suggestions on whether I should get it repaired? If so, by who and is there a typical price for this kind of thing?


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## sofa king

Sorry if im messing things up with this question but I lost the access door to my R-10.Does anyone here know where i can get one without going through DTV? Im really lookin to get one off a junker.Any Ideas Appreciated


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## JimSpence

May I ask how you lost the access door? It isn't something that is used very often.

Let me take a wild guess. You have little kids.


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## ladyjas

hello everyone, I am new to any type of forum. I was sorta directed here by D*. I called the tech support asking how to undelete like my friend told me I could on my Tivo and was told 2 things. 1) it wasn't possible now. 2) to google the r10 and by using the usb slot and a downloaded program it was. By reading the posts I gathered 2 things 1) I would have to hack it and 2)the usb slots don't really work.
forgive me if I sound just like a girl 'cause I am one. I have no exp. with Linux except a failed attempt to play with redhat. Any help/advice would be appreciated.
BTW my deleting problem apparently is stemming from my remote that double clicks etc when only pressed once and sometimes has a long delay. Tech support told me they are seeing a lot of that and are sending me a new non-tivo remote that they assure me can be programmed to work with my R10.
Judy


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## restart88

I thought about putting my old R10 on eBay until I saw how low they were going for. So I figured I'd reactivate it and look into "underground upgrades" later.

All I can say is the PQ on my cheapo $50 Durabrand TV is much better than with an S2. Oddly, I'd lost track of the remote but my S2 remotes worked just fine! I had apparently already changed the remote codes some time ago so there was no conflict with the S2s and I only had to switch that 1/ 2 switch.  

All said & done, I think I might just keep it.


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## Dkerr24

ladyjas said:


> hello everyone, I am new to any type of forum. I was sorta directed here by D*. I called the tech support asking how to undelete like my friend told me I could on my Tivo and was told 2 things. 1) it wasn't possible now. 2) to google the r10 and by using the usb slot and a downloaded program it was. By reading the posts I gathered 2 things 1) I would have to hack it and 2)the usb slots don't really work.
> forgive me if I sound just like a girl 'cause I am one. I have no exp. with Linux except a failed attempt to play with redhat. Any help/advice would be appreciated.
> BTW my deleting problem apparently is stemming from my remote that double clicks etc when only pressed once and sometimes has a long delay. Tech support told me they are seeing a lot of that and are sending me a new non-tivo remote that they assure me can be programmed to work with my R10.
> Judy


1) An R10 is not hackable without soldering skills and a new prom chip.
2) Even after hacking, the programs recorded before are 'locked' and cannot be copied or undeleted. Only programs after you soldered the new prom chip would be 'unlocked'.

My recommendation if you really want those features is to buy any non-R10 DTivo series 2 unit from eBay and hack it with the zipper.


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## ladyjas

Dkerr24 said:


> 1) An R10 is not hackable without soldering skills and a new prom chip.
> 2) Even after hacking, the programs recorded before are 'locked' and cannot be copied or undeleted. Only programs after you soldered the new prom chip would be 'unlocked'.
> 
> My recommendation if you really want those features is to buy any non-R10 DTivo series 2 unit from eBay and hack it with the zipper.


Is the non-R10 Dtivo series 2 have dual tuner capable?


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## John T Smith

>Is the non-R10 Dtivo series 2 have dual tuner capable?

Short answer... yes

Longer answer... you may look at all manuals here
http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/customer/downloadPage.jsp?assetId=1100066


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