# Tivo Desktop 2.4 preview for the S3



## Solver (Feb 17, 2005)

http://tivo.com/4.9.4.1-2_win.asp

Preview exciting new features coming soon in the next TiVo desktop software release. Download TiVo Desktop 2.4 Preview Releasewatch video downloaded from the web on your Series2 box and dramatically enhance the clarity of your digital photos on your Series3 box. Includes all the features of TiVo Desktop 2.3.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

Yay! HD digital photos at last!


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## nhaigh (Jul 16, 2001)

Why is the video stuff only for the S2? I'd planned on using this to watch HD Home Movies on my main TV which is an S3. What possible reason could there be for not allowing that!!!!


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

nhaigh said:


> Why is the video stuff only for the S2? I'd planned on using this to watch HD Home Movies on my main TV which is an S3. What possible reason could there be for not allowing that!!!!


Tivo doesn't have CableLABS approval yet maybe? I dunno.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Cool!

It's not just for the S3s though ... you can transfer internet content to S2 boxes as well. Time to play!


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

nhaigh said:


> Why is the video stuff only for the S2? I'd planned on using this to watch HD Home Movies on my main TV which is an S3. What possible reason could there be for not allowing that!!!!


 Well what they are doing for the S2 is transcoding certain formats to a Tivo mpeg2 format on the fly. To do it properly on the S3 it should not require any re-encoding of the video ideally since the S3 has native support (i.e. has the proper decoders already) for some of those formats. I didn't see mpeg2 transport streams as one of the supported formats which is a disappointment as that is the format most of my HD captures are in and I don't want to have to transcode to mpeg4.

I think to do it right for the S3 Tivo Desktop needs to support STREAMING of video files to S3 instead of copying/transcoding. After all that's what is done already for audio files is it not?


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## sobenski (Sep 19, 2006)

No Mac version? Here we go again...


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## tivotivotivo (Aug 29, 2002)

sobenski said:


> No Mac version? Here we go again...


Sometimes I feel apple should just do this themselves so I can dump tivo but after seeing the cable card "ease of use" (snark) and the upcoming SDV mess I know why they don't.

with tv changing so fast and HDTV coming on strong and taking up more bandwith

IMO we are looking at the end of tivo hardware one way or another within 3 years... either they go straight software or they run out of money....

I'm still buying a tivo HD but I fully expect to be using something else in three years..

and before anyone bags on me, I have owned a tivo since the beginning...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

hmmm, have to get the desktop plus, i can transcode the few files i download myself.

oh well, 2.4 does nothing for me


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

MikeMar said:


> hmmm, have to get the desktop plus, i can transcode the few files i download myself.
> 
> oh well, 2.4 does nothing for me


 Well, higher resolution photos is something...


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 12, 2006)

It wouldn't run on Windows Vista.


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

PhillyGuy said:


> It wouldn't run on Windows Vista.


The download page said it wouldn't. I guess it was right.


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

Since I'm really new to TiVo Desktop can we now watch on our S3's the movie files they have listed or is this still for S2 only?

Also I notice we still can't access TiVoCast so I guess the new version desktop has nothing to do with that.

Still I have a video or two I'd like to try out. Can't do it until tomorrow. Think it will work?


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

For those that want to see their digital photos in HD there are a few things that might not be obvious (especially to those who didn't read the README file  .

1. You have to click on "Preview Photos 2.0 (With HD Support)" checkbox under SERVER > TIVO SERVER PROPERTIES

2. When you go to your TIVO under the MUSIC, PHOTOS & MORE menu option you should see 2 entries for viewing your photos. See this image...

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/musicphotosandmore.jpg

For example mine says "GEORGE'S PHOTOS on GC2005PC" There is now a 2nd entry that says the same thing but it has a photo icon next to it. That is the one you need to choose to see the photos in HD. It is interesting because it is a real HD menu screen obviously designed for HD unlike the other TIVO menus.

If you don't see the 2nd entry for your photos you might need to reboot your PC and then go into the MUSIC, PHOTOS menu on the TIVO.

Here are some sample photos of the interface for those interested (the photo quality isn't the best as I was in a rush, but you will get the idea)...

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd.jpg

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd2.jpg

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd3.jpg

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd4.jpg

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd5.jpg

*Note that these interface screens in the new photo viewer appear to have been designed for HD, unlike the other TiVo Menus.*

These are the photos you can view from Flickr...

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd_flickr.jpg

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd_flickr2.jpg

http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd_flickr3.jpg

Once again, the photos aren't the best and don't give the real deal justice.

If you have a HDTV, have a home network and take digital photos this is a nice way to view them. The quality is pretty decent, but I find the quality on my XBOX 360 when viewing photos in HD somewhat better. It might be because the XBOX 360 can show them in a higher resolution 1920x1080 (Tivo Desktop only shows them in 1280x720) I am not sure.


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## synch22 (Dec 30, 2003)

digital hd photos is pretty nice. XBMC does that to music, great stuff.


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## OC7 (Nov 17, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> For those that want to see their digital photos in HD there are a few things that might not be obvious (especially to those who didn't read the README file  .
> 
> 1. You have to click on "Preview Photos 2.0 (With HD Support)" checkbox under SERVER > TIVO SERVER PROPERTIES
> 
> ...


To get the photos to work in HD, I also had to upgrade my Java Runtime Environment (see the Minimum System Requirements in the README file). This upgrade allowed the Photos 2.0 software to be installed on my computer.

Also, Tivo will require you to Enable your Home Network Applications (if you haven't already) before it will allow the HD photos to be displayed.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

hookbill said:


> Since I'm really new to TiVo Desktop can we now watch on our S3's the movie files they have listed or is this still for S2 only?
> 
> Also I notice we still can't access TiVoCast so I guess the new version desktop has nothing to do with that.
> 
> Still I have a video or two I'd like to try out. Can't do it until tomorrow. Think it will work?


I can't WAIT for the full tivocast where you can share your videos with friends!


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

I'd like to know if they fixed the bug where Desktop only works for one windows user. I could never get my wife's windows account to work. Based on some posts in that forum, it seemed like a limitation of the software.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

is this release for the Amazon Unbox feature?


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

I'm not seeing where we can see films on our computer yet. There is no folder for "view my Tivo Recordings". So I guess we still can't do that yet? I put a mpeg file in there but I can't find it anywhere on TiVo. I never had an S2 so maybe I don't know where to look?


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## skitime (Sep 14, 2006)

Man, I was really excited about the photos in higher def, till I saw it's only for WINDOWS! Where's the Mac version???


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## hookbill (Dec 14, 2001)

nhaigh said:


> Why is the video stuff only for the S2? I'd planned on using this to watch HD Home Movies on my main TV which is an S3. What possible reason could there be for not allowing that!!!!


Aw, crap so it doesn't work for the S3 for Videos? I agree that sucks. I've just wasted an hour trying to get it to work!


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

I'm sick and tired of TiVo barely supporting the Mac!!!

AND I DON'T EVEN OWN A MAC!!!

I'm just sick of all the complaining about it (which I believe you Mac owners have every right to do!).


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Doesn't Mac software for MAJORITY of things come out later than Windows stuff?

Hasn't that pretty much always been the case?

Let it go, you have a Mac, you get software later, it's part of the deal


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

hookbill said:


> Aw, crap so it doesn't work for the S3 for Videos? I agree that sucks. I've just wasted an hour trying to get it to work!


Thank you CABLELABS!! :down: :down: :down:


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

So if you have a S2, and regular desktop, not plus, this does nothing for you then right?


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## wdave (Jul 16, 2000)

George Cifranci said:


> The quality is pretty decent, but I find the quality on my XBOX 360 when viewing photos in HD somewhat better. It might be because the XBOX 360 can show them in a higher resolution 1920x1080 (Tivo Desktop only shows them in 1280x720) I am not sure.


Really?! So we get HD, but they only did it in 720p? No 1080 support? You've got to be kidding me.


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## hddude55 (Jan 5, 2007)

Mike Farrington said:


> I'm sick and tired of TiVo barely supporting the Mac!!!
> 
> AND I DON'T EVEN OWN A MAC!!!
> 
> I'm just sick of all the complaining about it (which I believe you Mac owners have every right to do!).


I have owned three Macs over the years and worked at a university that was heavily Mac based, but even though I am a Mac fan I gave up on them about five years ago due to the fact so many software vendors were either ignoring or giving low priority to the Mac platform. I know the Mac crowd tends to be a lot like the TIVO crowd in terms of blind devotion, but I don't undertsand why Mac users continue to cry about this issue when it has been this way for years and likely will only get worse as Windoze continues to siphon off Mac users.


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## tome9999 (Oct 17, 2006)

hddude55 said:


> I have owned three Macs over the years and worked at a university that was heavily Mac based, but even though I am a Mac fan I gave up on them about five years ago due to the fact so many software vendors were either ignoring or giving low priority to the Mac platform. I know the Mac crowd tends to be a lot like the TIVO crowd in terms of blind devotion, but I don't undertsand why Mac users continue to cry about this issue when it has been this way for years and likely will only get worse as Windoze continues to siphon off Mac users.


Because if owners don't let vendors know then the situation will never change. As Mac market share grows it is slowly becoming clearer to companies that they are (or will be) leaving a lot of money on the table by poorly supporting the Mac community.

-Tom


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

MikeMar said:


> So if you have a S2, and regular desktop, not plus, this does nothing for you then right?


An S2 can't output HD.


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## wdave (Jul 16, 2000)

hddude55 said:


> I don't undertsand why Mac users continue to cry about this issue when it has been this way for years and likely will only get worse as *Windoze continues to siphon off Mac users*.


The opposite is happening. Mac sales are growing at more than twice the rate of PC sales.


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## tivotivotivo (Aug 29, 2002)

wdave said:


> The opposite is happening. Mac sales are growing at more than twice the rate of PC sales.


Exactly. Not sure what the OP poster is reading but the mac market share has nearly doubled over the last 4 years.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

wdave said:


> Really?! So we get HD, but they only did it in 720p? No 1080 support? You've got to be kidding me.


According to the Tivo website when you click on "Learn More" about Tivo Desktop 2.4 it says

"View photos and slideshows with enhanced clarity in HD quality on your Series3 TiVo® box. The new photo feature automatically scales your jpeg formatted photos to 1280 x 720 resolution."

Oh well. I guess I will stick with my XBOX 360 for picture viewing. It is a bummer because I like the way the TIVO lets you go through your pictures using the same tree structure they are on your PC. Hopefully they will increase it to 1920x1080 in the future.


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## tedler (Jan 19, 2007)

FYI, 
Requires XP SP2, unlike TivoDesktop2.3.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

MikeMar said:


> Doesn't Mac software for MAJORITY of things come out later than Windows stuff?
> 
> Hasn't that pretty much always been the case?
> 
> Let it go, you have a Mac, you get software later, it's part of the deal


Uh yea, 'cause so many other software developer companies find it difficult to display HD photos on a Mac. 'Cause it's so hard.

Macs certainly ain't known for being able to handle photography stuff well. Or networking, for that matter.

Yea, this is a real mind-bender...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

wdave said:


> The opposite is happening. Mac sales are growing at more than twice the rate of PC sales.


Lots of pro photographers I work with, the ones who actually care about HD photography, would not use anything BUT Mac.

TiVo, don't !^@&* this up again. Come out with a Mac version of this TiVo Desktop version...


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I have a Mac and an S3. Guess I don't get to play...


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

cwoody222 said:


> Uh yea, 'cause so many other software developer companies find it difficult to display HD photos on a Mac. 'Cause it's so hard.
> 
> Macs certainly ain't known for being able to handle photography stuff well. Or networking, for that matter.
> 
> Yea, this is a real mind-bender...


just talking stats here

is it not true that majority of software the comes out is for pc first, then somewhere down the line for mac?

If i'm wrong then my first statement is wrong, but if I'm right, then it stands


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Since the new HD Photos app seems to be an HME app, written in Java, might it be possible to "strip" it out of TiVo Desktop 2.4 and run it separately on a Mac? Just thinking out loud ...


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## Greeble (Dec 5, 2006)

Us linux users don't get any love either, but we are used to it. I wonder if its worth it to install it in wine or vmware.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Greeble said:


> Us linux users don't get any love either


Check out Galleon and TiVo.Net (see my sig) if you want TiVo Desktop-like functionality on Linux.


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## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

My support for MAC versions of TIVO software!

I do own 2 macs, a PC and a PC laptop, and all my photography work is done on a MAC. 

Sure would like for my MAC to see my S3 programs!

Regards...


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## briankasper (Dec 1, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> I have a Mac and an S3. Guess I don't get to play...


Heck, I have a PC and *I* don't even get to play ...

... because I'm running Windows 2000.

I'm going to be cynical and assume WinXP SP2 is required because of its improved DRM capabilities.

So if I want to watch videos on my TiVo I have to pay Microsoft $100+ to upgrade to WinXP? Feh.

An Apple TV box for $300 is looking better and better ....

-B


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## sinanju (Jan 3, 2005)

briankasper said:


> Heck, I have a PC and *I* don't even get to play ...
> 
> ... because I'm running Windows 2000.
> 
> I'm going to be cynical and assume WinXP SP2 is required because of its improved DRM capabilities.


Actually, it's probably because Windows 2000 is in its extended support phase (as opposed to to the mainstream support phase). The economics of development on a platform in that phase just don't make sense.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

windracer said:


> Since the new HD Photos app seems to be an HME app, written in Java, might it be possible to "strip" it out of TiVo Desktop 2.4 and run it separately on a Mac? Just thinking out loud ...


I'd bet it would, too (although I doubt it'd be as simple as just running the HME app as it exists on Windows.) Something for me to poke at, anyway.

As to the 720p resolution, my recollection is that that's what the menus run at as well (internally) so it may just be easier to run the graphics buffers for HME/Photos at the same resolution (could even be a hardware limit if they have dedicated RAM for them.)


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

cokyq said:


> Sure would like for my MAC to see my S3 programs!


That's more a S3 issue than a Mac issue. Windows users can't see their S3 programs, either.


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## CheezWiz (Dec 30, 2006)

wdave said:


> The opposite is happening. Mac sales are growing at more than twice the rate of PC sales.


Thats only because Intel Macs can run XP, Vista, linux as well as OS X. Not to mention run Windows Apps from OS X semi-seamlessly using the latest version of Parallels...

So if you have a non-Intel based Mac, time to upgrade and buy Parallels.. BootCamp XP and Vista and Linux and stop complaining...

But as stated before, it has always been this way. If you run an OS with a 5% market share (MacWorld), expect 5% development support.

However, now that Macs are Intel based, development for them will be MUCH MUCH easier.. So things will get better..


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The HD Photos portion of the new Desktop is just a Java based HME app. I'm sure TiVo could port it over pretty easily. And if they don't I'm sure one of the local Mac guys will figure out how to rip it out of the PC version, or get the same effect from Galleon.

Dan


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## tivotivotivo (Aug 29, 2002)

CheezWiz said:


> Thats only because Intel Macs can run XP, Vista, linux as well as OS X.


Only?

So its not... that whole no virus thing... that whole no swiss cheese OS security of xp... not that whole iPod halo...not that whole people can make digital photos, movies and dvds 8 times frack all easier then a PC.. or that Mac are just plain easier...

I see. Its nice to see someone believe that apple's entire comeback and marketshare increase over the past 4 years only is due to the the intel macs even though the intel macs have only been out 14 months...

You may now insert a comment where you state macs don't have viruses because they are only 5% of the market here.


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## Jiffylush (Oct 31, 2006)

tivotivotivo said:


> Only?
> 
> So its not... that whole no virus thing... that whole no swiss cheese OS security of xp... not that whole iPod halo...not that whole people can make digital photos, movies and dvds 8 times frack all easier then a PC.. or that Mac are just plain easier...
> 
> ...


I think the iPod phenom had more bearing on getting people to look at Macs as their next computer.

But I also think that the small market share would be directly related to this and many other applications coming out as 'windows only' at least for a few months.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tivotivotivo said:


> You may now insert a comment where you state macs don't have viruses because they are only 5% of the market here.


You're saying that with sarcasm, but that's exactly why Macs don't get many viruses. OSX might be inheriently more secure due to it's Unix roots, but it's not impervious to viruses. It's just that the low lifes who write those things get a kick out of f*cking over as many people as they possibly can, and their best for doing that is to target the much larger pool of Windows users.

As for the whole Mac vs. PC debate... Macs are gaining traction, but they still have a long way to go before they even come close to taking over. If Apple really wanted to grab a big chunk of market share they'd release their OS as a standalone product that would run on any Intel based PC instead of forcing people to buy their over priced hardware to run it. I know I'd give it a try if I could install it on my PC.

Dan


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> If Apple really wanted to grab a big chunk of market share they'd release their OS as a standalone product that would run on any Intel based PC instead of forcing people to buy their over priced hardware to run it. I know I'd give it a try if I could install it on my PC.


Apple thinks of their product as more than just the OS. It's the integration with their well-designed hardware, as well as their service that makes it a better end-user experience. And their hardware has gotten much cheaper in the last 6-8 years. It may offer more features than you'd typically choose, but it you compare similarly equipped (build to order) PC's (both mini desktops and laptops) you'd see the Mac is often cheaper.



Dan203 said:


> You're saying that with sarcasm, but that's exactly why Macs don't get many viruses. OSX might be inheriently more secure due to it's Unix roots, but it's not impervious to viruses. It's just that the low lifes who write those things get a kick out of f*cking over as many people as they possibly can, and their best for doing that is to target the much larger pool of Windows users.


You're saying that with confidence and clarity, as if it really matters. All I care about is that I don't have to worry about viruses and my machine isn't constantly under attack. It could be because of paltry marketshare and disinterested hackers, its secure UNIX roots, or green goblins protecting my cable modem, I really don't care. I just know that I don't need to concern myself with the craziness that plagues Windows users daily, and that's good enough for me. Dealing with the few software standouts is a compromise I'm willing to make, for a stable and hassle-free computing environment.

If TiVo fails me with the photo/music sharing, an AppleTV (or inexpensive Mac mini) is one click away from my shopping cart. It'd be a more pleasant UI experience, anyway.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

tivotivotivo said:


> I see. Its nice to see someone believe that apple's entire comeback and marketshare increase over the past 4 years only is due to the the intel macs even though the intel macs have only been out 14 months...


Just to clarify for non mac-heads... A 'mac comeback' is going from 4.3% of the market share to 4.6%.

Of course if a PC maker only sold that many computers, they'd be broke. Gateway 6.2% of the market share and got bought out by e-machines..

Stats courtesy of macworld..  http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/07/20/marketshare/index.php


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## CheezWiz (Dec 30, 2006)

tivotivotivo said:


> Only?
> 
> So its not... that whole no virus thing... that whole no swiss cheese OS security of xp... not that whole iPod halo...not that whole people can make digital photos, movies and dvds 8 times frack all easier then a PC.. or that Mac are just plain easier...
> 
> ...


Actually,

If you look at the historical market share data, Macs have been on a decline since the early 90's when they topped out well over 10%. The decline continued, even after the release of OS X in 2001. When the news about the future release of Intel Macs were made, the decline sped up as people waited for them. The upswing in market share has been the result of Intel based macs hitting the market. Geeks like me who have always hated the "easy" mac interface see them as more useful than ever. My MacBook is sitting behind me right now, running Vista Ultimate! Intel based Macs are the saving grace for apple where computers are concerned.

Best chart I could find...


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## CheezWiz (Dec 30, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> You're saying that with sarcasm, but that's exactly why Macs don't get many viruses. OSX might be inheriently more secure due to it's Unix roots, but it's not impervious to viruses. It's just that the low lifes who write those things get a kick out of f*cking over as many people as they possibly can, and their best for doing that is to target the much larger pool of Windows users.
> 
> As for the whole Mac vs. PC debate... Macs are gaining traction, but they still have a long way to go before they even come close to taking over. If Apple really wanted to grab a big chunk of market share they'd release their OS as a standalone product that would run on any Intel based PC instead of forcing people to buy their over priced hardware to run it. I know I'd give it a try if I could install it on my PC.
> 
> Dan


Dan, you are right on the money with that. I bet Bill has nightmares about the release of OS X for PC's... I would definately have it as one of my OS's!! Interesting note, OS X for Intel was beta tested on standard PC's. I know one of the Beta guys. He let me in on the secret back in 2003, but everyone just called him (and me for believing him) crazy... They were blinded by the PowerPC..


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## rczig (Mar 25, 2006)

and, despite what Gates claims, it's such an OBVIOUS rip-off of OS X. And I don't mean that in an entirely negative sense. While they copied many of Apple's ideas blatantly (like Widgets- Gadgets; and Spotlight), they also copied some of the underlying features which have made OS X superior to XP (security features like a protected system folder and Off-loading graphics compositing to the GPU). I think competition is GREAT and Apple has been leading innovation recently- they obviously exert A LOT more pressure in the market than their 5-6% marketshare would indicate (why else would MS adopt so many of Apple's ideas? Do you think Vista (or XP, for that matter) would have been anything like it is without Apple?)

Despite all of its many improvements, Vista would be considered a 'niche' (probably under 5% of the market at this point)- should developers develop for XP and OS X before Vista?

Any MP3 player except the iPod is a 'niche', should developers not allow exporting video content to anything but the iPod?

It also seems lost on many that Mac use is significantly higher amongst Tivo users (as high as 15-20%). By the logic of this thread, Tivo should develop then for OSX BEFORE Vista, right? Macs are also over 50% marketshare in professional creative fields (music, publishing- PC magazine is even mostly produced on Macs, etc)

I own both Macs and PCs, as well as TiVO Series 2 and 3s. While I don't mind waiting a little longer for OSX versions of programs (which, usually are more stable and easier to use anyway, witness Toast 8 versus MyDVD), I think it would be suicide for a 'niche player' like Tivo (smaller marketshare and valuation than Apple, BY FAR) to abandon as much as 15-20% of their dedicated users. I trust that Tivo won't wait as long for feature parity between OSes as they did with TTG, though.


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## rczig (Mar 25, 2006)

CheezWiz said:


> Dan, you are right on the money with that. I bet Bill has nightmares about the release of OS X for PC's... I would definately have it as one of my OS's!! Interesting note, OS X for Intel was beta tested on standard PC's. I know one of the Beta guys. He let me in on the secret back in 2003, but everyone just called him (and me for believing him) crazy... They were blinded by the PowerPC..


BTW, I would LOVE for this to happen: when Leopard is released, I think Apple should release Tiger for all x86 PCs! I have run a version of Tiger on my x86 homebuilt PC in a dual boot configuration with XP and Tiger runs faster and is more stable. I honestly believe by doing this, Apple would gain HUGE marketshare and would convince people to upgrade to Leopard which would currently only run on Genuine Macs. . .

I think it would be a win-win for everyone (well, maybe not for MS which would probably announce that they are discontinuing development of Office for OSX)


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Adam1115 said:


> Just to clarify for non mac-heads... A 'mac comeback' is going from 4.3% of the market share to 4.6%.
> 
> Of course if a PC maker only sold that many computers, they'd be broke.


And yet Apple's far (far, far, far) from "broke." 11.87 billion in cash?

Last year Apple surpassed Dell's market value. Maybe Michael should "shut Dell down and give the money to the shareholders."

What's BMW's market share? Mercedes'?

Enough of this tired argument. Back to your regularly scheduled thread. Let's discuss the "TiVo Desktop 2.4 Preview (for Windows only at this juncture)"


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

I really think apple is utterly stupid for bundling their OS with their own hardware. 

Becasue of the insistance of being a hardware company they are more like IBM (bought out by lenovo) or Gatebay (bought up by e-mcahines) then like MS which is like one of the most dominant corporations in the whole world. 

I dont understand the business logic in it- it's almost like they dont want to do whats the best for the business but instead they want to creat a little club and keep it that way. 

The entire profit they can attribute to computer hardware over their entire existance could probably be made in about 3 months of selling their OS in the wild. 

If a quarter of the dell pc's ALONE came with apple OS, Apple would almost double it's market share.

Seriously do they look at that decision in economics classes as the biggest blown oppurtunity in the history of capitalism?

Dont want to sell to some scholcko home built pc place beacsue you want to keep your overall experience high- that makes some sense- but maybe you could cut an exclusive with Dell or some PC compnay known for high quality customer service.


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## rczig (Mar 25, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> I really think apple is utterly stupid for bundling their OS with their own hardware.
> 
> Becasue of the insistance of being a hardware company they are more like IBM (bought out by lenovo) or Gatebay (bought up by e-mcahines) then like MS which is like one of the most dominant corporations in the whole world.
> 
> ...


Agreed. . . the Mac OS being tied to the hardware was, in retrospect, an ENORMOUS blunder. In fact, Bill Gates approached Apple about porting over the OS and APPLE REFUSED. Still, hindsight is 20-20.

And, really, you can still see this going on today in the tech market. Want to talk about proprietary? MS's own XBox 360 is THE WORST! If your HD or DVD drive fail, you can't just pop in an off-the-shelf IDE drive! The firmware is proprietary, but the CONNECTOR IS TOO! In contrast, when my iPod 20Gb drive failed, I just bought an off-the-shelf replacement from Newegg (40Gb!) and installed it myself.

Now, if another company opens up their gaming platform, MS's decision may be a HUGE blunder, as well.

Still, I wouldn't rule out the eventual release of Apple's OS- I really think it WILL happen. . .


----------



## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> Becasue of the insistance of being a hardware company they are more like IBM (bought out by lenovo) or Gatebay (bought up by e-mcahines) .


For accuracy's sake, I just want to point out that IBM _sold_ their PC division to Lenovo, and Gateway _bought_ e-Machines, not the other way around. 

And as a former IBMer I can attest they do more than just hardware.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

windracer said:


> For accuracy's sake, I just want to point out that IBM _sold_ their PC division to Lenovo, and Gateway _bought_ e-Machines, not the other way around.
> 
> And as a former IBMer I can attest they do more than just hardware.


bad analogies- sorry.  (I wasn;t clear about IBM- knew that bit- the gateway thing i was just wrong- i thought someone else said that before and was just parrroint- should have read better...)

I guess big picture it suffices to say that Apples revenues and profits are probably an order of magnitude smaller becasue they are stupid and wont sell their OS freely.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

The prior posters idea about releasing older versions of OSX (such as TiGer) that will run on any intel based machine sounds like a pretty good marketing strategy. I think once folks got hooked on the Mac software, they'd be more likely to then want to buy Macintosh Hardware too. Much like the iPod opened up new doors for Apple. The fact that we can now run Windows on the Mac hardware is a big step in the right direction. Steve Jobs is a frickin genius in my opinion. One of the few major CEO's that I still have any respect for. Seems most of them these days, simply wait for the right opportunity to sell out and cash in. Steve Jobs is a visionary. One of the few we have left with any power. 

EDIT: To stay on topic... I hope TiVo (or someone) will come out with Mac software soon. Sounds like fun. :up:


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> becasue they are stupid


LOL

(for quite a few reasons)


----------



## rczig (Mar 25, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> bad analogies- sorry.  (I wasn;t clear about IBM- knew that bit- the gateway thing i was just wrong- i thought someone else said that before and was just parrroint- should have read better...)
> 
> I guess big picture it suffices to say that Apples revenues and profits are probably an order of magnitude smaller becasue they are stupid and wont sell their OS freely.


Umm, you do realize that Gateway's net profit last quarter was 8.8 million (revenue of 1.02 Billion), while Apple's was 1 BILLION (revenue of 7.1 Billion), don't you?!?!?

Apple is an order of magnitude LARGER than Gateway (over 100 times the net profit). . .


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## stevetd (Sep 23, 2006)

Why does every thread in this forum end up being some stupid argument about things that we basically have no control over instead of about the original subject? Good freak'n god!!


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

stevetd said:


> Why does every thread in this forum end up being some stupid argument about things that we basically have no control over instead of about the original subject? Good freak'n god!!


[cowboy voice] You ain't from around these parts are ya?[/cowboy voice]


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Fofer said:


> LOL
> 
> (for quite a few reasons)


never said i wasn't



(and typing, spelling, and grammer aint my strong suits either!)


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rczig said:


> Umm, you do realize that Gateway's net profit last quarter was 8.8 million (revenue of 1.02 Billion), while Apple's was 1 BILLION (revenue of 7.1 Billion), don't you?!?!?
> 
> Apple is an order of magnitude LARGER than Gateway (over 100 times the net profit). . .


my point is not that they should try to be gateway but they apple should try to be microsoft.

Not a finanacial analyst but didn't MS make 3.5 billion on revenue of 12.5 billion.

I'm saying that apple's insistance on selling hardware (like gateway does) is holding them back from making the big money by selling their OS (like microsoft does. )

Of apples revenue and profit what portion comes from their computer business? Isn't much of it from ipods and itunes and other segments. How big could the computer/os segment be if it was more like MS?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

rczig said:


> Umm, you do realize that Gateway's net profit last quarter was 8.8 million (revenue of 1.02 Billion), while Apple's was 1 BILLION (revenue of 7.1 Billion), don't you?!?!?
> 
> Apple is an order of magnitude LARGER than Gateway (over 100 times the net profit). . .


Read it agian- oh- I think you thought my order of mangnitude comment was a comparison to some other company? It wasn't. I'm saying I think that the applie OS is so damn good that if they sold it by itself so people could buy it with the dell (et al) PC's that that their own profits could be an order of magnitude more for their computer/os segment.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

stevetd said:


> Why does every thread in this forum end up being some stupid argument about things that we basically have no control over instead of about the original subject? Good freak'n god!!


sorry-

I'll go play in some other sandbox...

sometimes i can't help myself


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## rczig (Mar 25, 2006)

MichaelK said:


> Read it agian- oh- I think you thought my order of mangnitude comment was a comparison to some other company? It wasn't. I'm saying I think that the applie OS is so damn good that if they sold it by itself so people could buy it with the dell (et al) PC's that that their own profits could be an order of magnitude more for their computer/os segment.


You have a point, and I wouldn't be surprised if they go that route down the line. However, I think MS had been such a monopoly for so long that they were afraid of going head-to-head with them (witness Netscape)- after all, if Office for OS X had been cancelled, how widespread would adoption have been?

I think that market forces are weakening MS's position (that and recent poor leadership) and opinion on Apple has turned around, as well. Even the enterprise and business markets seem to be warming to Apple due to security concerns and the Intel architechure.

I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens with Apple (it always is). . . it's sort of too bad, though, that they didn't buy TiVO- THAT would be one *heck* of a merger!


----------



## alex_kac (Oct 23, 2004)

hddude55 said:


> I have owned three Macs over the years and worked at a university that was heavily Mac based, but even though I am a Mac fan I gave up on them about five years ago due to the fact so many software vendors were either ignoring or giving low priority to the Mac platform. I know the Mac crowd tends to be a lot like the TIVO crowd in terms of blind devotion, but I don't undertsand why Mac users continue to cry about this issue when it has been this way for years and likely will only get worse as Windoze continues to siphon off Mac users.


Isn't it the other way around? Since Apple's marketshare is growing and 50% of new Mac owners at Apple Stores are Windows switchers, doesn't that mean that Apple is siphoning off Windows users????


----------



## alex_kac (Oct 23, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> just talking stats here
> 
> is it not true that majority of software the comes out is for pc first, then somewhere down the line for mac?
> 
> If i'm wrong then my first statement is wrong, but if I'm right, then it stands


Games, yeah. Anything pro - rarely. Adobe Premier Pro this year comes out for the Mac first - then Windows. Usually its simultaneous release.


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## demon (Nov 15, 2006)

CheezWiz said:


> However, now that Macs are Intel based, development for them will be MUCH MUCH easier.. So things will get better..


Why would that have anything to do with it? Are you saying they're writing their apps in *assembly*? Win32 (and now Win64) APIs are *highly* different from the NeXTStep/Aqua/Core* ObjectiveC-based APIs which Apple apps are developed against (or Carbon, if you're still stuck in the old-school OS 9 mindset). The problem isn't the difficulty of *development* per se, but the difficulty of developing a consistent codebase on top of such divergent OSes. (Look at Mozilla/Firefox - they had to write a massive set of libraries - XPFE, NSPR, and friends - to write applications that are reasonably portable. It's a big job.)


----------



## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

OC7 said:


> To get the photos to work in HD, I also had to upgrade my Java Runtime Environment (see the Minimum System Requirements in the README file). This upgrade allowed the Photos 2.0 software to be installed on my computer.


I've upgraded my JRE but it still won't run. java.com successfully validates the install but as soon as I try to run the HD Photos, I get a Java error. It's requesting the JRE 1.5+ and then I get an application error, "Unable to launch the application" stating that the JRE is not locally installed and must be installed manually. I haven't figured it out yet :-(

.../Ed


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## jsirota (May 26, 2003)

Once I installed the latest JRE 1.5 and enabled the checkbox, and then restarted the desktop app, everything worked perfectly. Keep at it


----------



## Stevesreed (Jun 24, 2002)

I wish they would support the Mac. But in a week or so I'll have my Apple TV, and probably won't care anymore...


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## plmills (Jan 18, 2005)

Stevesreed said:


> I wish they would support the Mac. But in a week or so I'll have my Apple TV, and probably won't care anymore...


I've noticed a couple of posts on this thread from folks interested in the Apple TV. I thought I wanted one, too, but my reading of the tech. specs on Apple's site indicates no support for plain-jane mpeg-2 video. Looks like only H.264 and MPEG-4 stuff is supported by the box (which is what iTunes videos happen to be). Am I wrong? I'd love to think I could play videos I download myself on my HDTV via the Apple box, since TiVo is having issues getting cablelabs to let them activate TivoTG/TivoTCB on the series 3. I don't want to have to transcode all my downloads to Apple's formats (or Mpeg-4) just to watch via Apple TV.

http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

Excerpt from Apple's Apple TV site:

Video

Video formats supported: H.264 and protected H.264 (from iTunes Store): 640 by 480, 30 fps, LC version of Baseline Profile; 320 by 240, 30 fps, Baseline profile up to Level 1.3; 1280 by 720, 24 fps, Progressive Main Profile. MPEG-4: 640 by 480, 30 fps, Simple Profile


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## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

I installed 2.4beta on my PC. I took some quicktime movies and placed them on the My TIVO recordings folder then went to my TIVO S3 and NOTHING! No videos! 

I was so wanting to see some 720p videos (like the Animusic video you can download from the Apple Quicktime HD page), and see how the HD image looked through the S3 in my HDTV!

George (post #4) states TiVo is still missing approval from CableLabs, but, wait a minute, the video stream is going from my PC to the TiVo! Why would cablelabs be involved on this? What about the people who do not use CableCards?

Dissapointed!


----------



## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

Anyone has any idea when TiVo will allow viewing/streaming of movie files from a PC to the S3?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

That's the big question ... and the answer is no one knows.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

What kind of videos work with this? I definitely like 2.4 better than 2.3 because of the higher res photos, but videos would also be nice.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

From the web site:



> Note: Requires a TiVo Desktop Plus upgrade key. Supported video formats include .WMV (Windows Media), .MP4 and .M4V (MPEG-4, H.264). Videos that are protected with DRM are not supported.


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## Jiffylush (Oct 31, 2006)

windracer said:


> From the web site:





> Note: Requires a TiVo Desktop Plus upgrade key. Supported video formats include .WMV (Windows Media), .MP4 and .M4V (MPEG-4, H.264). Videos that are protected with DRM are not supported.


I still don't think it will work to a series 3, even if you pay for plus. But I think a call to TiVo might be in order to find out about that!


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

No, you're right ... this does _not_ work with the S3 boxes (even with Plus). I was just answering the question about what formats it supports.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So it doesn't support any formats with the S3 currently.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Right. The only way to get non-recorded shows on the S3 is via TiVoCast.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

windracer said:


> Right. The only way to get non-recorded shows on the S3 is via Guru Guides and TiVoCast.


I thought Guru Guides just set up recordings (either one-time or SP) for you online. They download like TiVoCasts do?


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

Fofer said:


> I thought Guru Guides just set up recordings (either one-time or SP) for you online. They download like TiVoCasts do?


Crap, what is wrong with me today?

You're right, Guru Guides _are_ recordings, not downloads.


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## Agent86 (Jan 18, 2002)

Has anyone come up with a clever way to move XVID/DIVX files to the TiVo?

Or is that covered by MPEG4/H.264?


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## sobenski (Sep 19, 2006)

stevetd said:


> Why does every thread in this forum end up being some stupid argument about things that we basically have no control over instead of about the original subject? Good freak'n god!!


Agreed. Ok ok, so I'll take the "blame" for being first in this thread to point out there was no Mac version, but geeeeezzz people, let's focus... Given that Tivo basically outsourced TTG to Roxio/Toast, the obvious next question is:

Is Tivo still developing Tivo Desktop for Mac at all? Are we ever going to see the photos/music features on the Mac side or is that going to be done by a third party as well?


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Agent86 said:


> Has anyone come up with a clever way to move XVID/DIVX files to the TiVo?
> 
> Or is that covered by MPEG4/H.264?


tivo.net

it's free and converts just about everything known to man.

check out the thread here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=337822


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> windracer said:
> 
> 
> > Since the new HD Photos app seems to be an HME app, written in Java, might it be possible to "strip" it out of TiVo Desktop 2.4 and run it separately on a Mac? Just thinking out loud ...
> ...


The answer is "yes". I'm viewing HD photos being served up off my Mac by TiVo's HME application as I type this. Works fine, performance seems reasonable (especially given what I had to do to make it work) but it's *not* something you can do by just copying over the HME app and firing it up. The HME app relies on TiVo Desktop to do most of the real work.

What I have working is a huge honkin' hack. The biggest issue with getting something working was to handle a new HMO request being made of the Desktop server that wants to block until TiVo Desktop exits. What I have now is a PHP-based proxy running on the Mac's built-in Apache installation, using a little bit of mod_rewrite to get URLs in the right form for the HMO protocol, and a few extra environment variables set. The proxy handles the new request, but forwards everything else over to the real TiVo Desktop running on the Mac. The current TiVo Desktop is more than happy to provide HD resolution photos if someone asks for them (which makes me wonder why a new HME app was required to do this, since the HMO protocol already accounted for differing resolutions quite well.) Not pretty, and at the moment specific to my machine.

If that entire previous paragraph reads like Greek to you, I apologize, but it's late and that's about all the exposition I feel up to right about now. 

There is what looks to be a bug in the current version of TiVo Desktop when used this way, that causes folders to appear where they shouldn't. I could probably make the proxy fix this, since it has the ability to see the XML being passed around already, but the way I have it coded right now is hardly the right mechanism for doing this (PHP just happened to be convenient.)

The long and short of it is that its very possible for TiVo to use this same HME application on the Mac, but probably not as it's packaged now (the Mac TiVo Desktop runs without users logged in, and this is packaged as a Java Web Start application, which won't behave as a system-level service, but that can be addressed by bundling things differently.) The changes to the Mac TiVo Desktop to support it should be pretty straightforward, assuming they still have someone familiar with the code.

I'm debating whether or not to write up instructions--like I said, what I've got ain't pretty.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

Dennis Wilkinson, you're the best.


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## cokyq (Jan 21, 2007)

It won't be of help to us S3 owners!


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## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

sobenski said:


> No Mac version? Here we go again...


No Vista version? Sheesh, they can't be current for anyone.


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## Maeglin (Sep 27, 2006)

mbernste said:


> No Vista version? Sheesh, they can't be current for anyone.


Perhaps it's the extra "security" measures (for whom, exactly?) in Vista that are getting in their way...


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

cokyq said:


> It won't be of help to us S3 owners!


Sure it will, for HD photos... which a lot of Mac users would like to see on their TiVo.
But not for videos.
Well not yet, at least. But when (if?) the S3 does get some sort of MRV support, then at least we know that we won't be missing another (Mac compatible) piece of the puzzle.
I, for one, appreciate Dennis sharing the information he's discovered, and the work he's done! The community is better for it. And Mac/TiVo owners owe him a debt of gratitude.  :up:


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## tedler (Jan 19, 2007)

George Cifranci said:


> 1. You have to click on "Preview Photos 2.0 (With HD Support)" checkbox under SERVER > TIVO SERVER PROPERTIES
> 
> http://www.cifrancis.com/tivo/photos_hd4.jpg


How did you get your photos to display in 16x9 like the one above? Mine are in HD now, but they are only being shown in the 4:3 mode.

Is there some option I am missing?


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## cgould (Dec 28, 2002)

tedler said:


> How did you get your photos to display in 16x9 like the one above? Mine are in HD now, but they are only being shown in the 4:3 mode.
> 
> Is there some option I am missing?


Uh, take a 16:9 photo? 

Most standard photos/pics are be in 4:3 aspect ratio and have pillar boxes onscreen.
I like using 16:9 mode in my camera/videocam for just this reason. Works nicely on my 16:10 LCD monitor too...
downside is that vertical-oriented pictures, look really odd and tall and narrow


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Anyone find a way to get it to run on Windows Server 2003? I get "Sorry, TiVo Desktop requires Windows XP SP2 (Service Pack 2) or later." Even if I try Windows XP compatibility mode..

Getting the same on Vista.. Ugh.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

tedler said:


> How did you get your photos to display in 16x9 like the one above? Mine are in HD now, but they are only being shown in the 4:3 mode.
> 
> Is there some option I am missing?


The URL to that particular photo of mine is an actual (16:9) 1920x1080 photo (taken with my Sony DSC-N1 camera). However Tivo Desktop scales it down to 1280x720. Anyway, that is how it is in 16:9 aspect ratio.

I really wish Tivo desktop would support 1920x1080 HD resolutions. My XBOX 360 does it just fine. I wonder why they only went to 1280x720?


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> Anyone find a way to get it to run on Windows Server 2003? I get "Sorry, TiVo Desktop requires Windows XP SP2 (Service Pack 2) or later." Even if I try Windows XP compatibility mode..
> 
> Getting the same on Vista.. Ugh.


Yup... me too... My home server is where all my media is kept and it is Windows Server 2003. I cant believe they block the install... Why not just warn that it isnt supported and let it install.

Its ironic that Tivo Server isnt allowed to run on Window's Server OS.

Tivo.. please fix this!!!


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

George Cifranci said:


> I really wish Tivo desktop would support 1920x1080 HD resolutions. My XBOX 360 does it just fine. I wonder why they only went to 1280x720?


The S3 is only a 720p/1080i device not a 1080p device so it can't scale to Yx1080.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

I just installed the 2.4 Desktop Preview and have the same complaints as everyone here:

1) Why the hell didn't they support 1080?????? Ridiculous! I am wasting 50% of the pixels on my screen! And it sure does not look to me like they are supporting a full 24 bit color spectrum... I need to find a test image to verify this.

2) There was nothing in the entire 2.4 install that said it did not support S3. Yes, I know very well from these forums that MRV is not enabled yet... BUT, what teh hell is the problem with me just showing my own video from my PC that I have dumped in mpeg 2 transport format from my HD camcorder? Does CableLabs now have a right to dictate what I do with my own video???? Just kidding, but what the heck is the reason that I can't do this basic shairng of my own video on my PC to see on my TV... and via STREAMING... NOT copy and waste space on my Tivo hard drive!!!!!

I went and spent $25 on the Plus key, since the 2.4 software said that was needed to do video... and did not mention that it did not support the S3. I should have come here and read this thread first... but I was too excited. I figured that this had nothing to do with MRV S3 to S3, and S3 to PC restrictions with recorded broadcast content... guess I was wrong.

I hope that the final version of 2.4 has this enabled.

Anyone know how I can get my $25 back from Tivo for the Plus key that does me no good???

Jeff


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## rcobourn (Nov 10, 2004)

I'm pretty sure TiVo won't refund on key purchase... but if you used a credit card you could consider filing a dispute on the charge based on the software not working as expected.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

Can anyone confirm whether the PC Video on a Series 2 is full 1080 or down converted to 720 also like the stills? That would just be wonderful!  Good quality from a good HD video cam that just gets crapped up when displayed on my TV in 6 months when it may be available on my S3. I guess I will need to put a networked PC next to my tv with VGA connection to my TV to play my PC based video... really a shame that the S3 did not have all of the non-copyright related functionality ready out of the gate.

On the key purchase... if Tivo can tell me when it will be able to be used like advertised (nothing stated on their web site that the video will not work on an S3) I will keep it (as long as it is not 6 months out and as long as it is full 1080), otherwise they will give me a refund or have the charge disputed and have to justify to the credit card company how they sold me a useless key code without warning.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

jscozz said:


> Can anyone confirm whether the PC Video on a Series 2 is full 1080 or down converted to 720 also like the stills?


On a Series 2, everything will be downconverted to NTSC (480i, most likely) -- a Series 2 can't handle HD resolutions.

On a Series 3, no one knows, since transcoding video for the Series 3 isn't supported yet.


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## jtkohl (Feb 7, 2004)

tedler said:


> How did you get your photos to display in 16x9 like the one above? Mine are in HD now, but they are only being shown in the 4:3 mode.
> 
> Is there some option I am missing?


When I had video output set to native, and 4:3 smartscreen, the application switched to 480p for displaying "HD" photos.
Changing the video output to 1080i fixed (still 4:3 smartscreen, although that won't matter anymore), the photos and app come out in HD.


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## wackymann (Sep 22, 2006)

Windows 2000 here... oh well. They look better on the computer anyways, even if it is a smaller screen.


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> On a Series 2, everything will be downconverted to NTSC (480i, most likely) -- a Series 2 can't handle HD resolutions.
> 
> On a Series 3, no one knows, since transcoding video for the Series 3 isn't supported yet.


That was a stupid question for me to ask...  I did not think before I typed!


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## selfexpressions (Jan 30, 2007)

Has anyone used the new 2.4 with the key to convert to .wmv files and play them directly on a Zune with no further conversions? I currently have version 2.3 with the Plus Key and that doesn't have the .wmv option, so I choose the option to convert to MPEG4, than I have to run the file through the Cucusoft Zune converter to turn it into a Zune compatible .wmv. I'm just wondering if the 2.4 converted wmv would play on the Zune without any further conversions. (What I'm doing now works, it just takes a lot of steps.... If the 2.4 wmv won't work on my Zune, I won't bother with the upgrade,) 

Thanks!


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## jscozz (Sep 28, 2002)

OK... A picture question... with my photos, I get the file name and "x of y" below it in the upper left corner... but with the Flikr pictures there are actually titles there and a text description that appears in the lower middle of the picture itself... does anyone know if there are image file based properties that can be set that the Tivo and Desktop software are reading from to display these text fields?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Maybe the memory ain't what it used to be, but didn't we have a Random display setting before? Now our only choices for display order are title/or/ datetaken/or/ datemodified, which in most cases are all the same order. So all we get are pictures in order. Booooring if you want to leave it up as background, or create a mix folder.



wackymann said:


> Windows 2000 here... oh well. They look better on the computer anyways, even if it is a smaller screen.


Not on my TV. Looking at digipics on a 40" LCD at HD (even if it's only 720) is stunning. My wife & I watched some last night, and then watched some under 2.3. The difference is startling. And instead of gathering around the ol' laptop, we can sit on the couch and all see them.


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## George Cifranci (Jan 30, 2003)

ah30k said:


> The S3 is only a 720p/1080i device not a 1080p device so it can't scale to Yx1080.


Not sure I understand. A Tivo S3 can output in 1080i which is 1920x1080. My Sony SXRD has a native resolution of 1920x1080, it can only handle a 1080i input, my XBOX 360 only outputs to that TV in 1080i and still can apparently display a 1920x1080 still image. So if my XBOX 360 can do it, why can't a Tivo S3?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I don't know. Why can't a PS3 output 720P content in 1080i? Maybe tivo will implement 1080i output later.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

George Cifranci said:


> Not sure I understand. A Tivo S3 can output in 1080i which is 1920x1080. My Sony SXRD has a native resolution of 1920x1080, it can only handle a 1080i input, my XBOX 360 only outputs to that TV in 1080i and still can apparently display a 1920x1080 still image. So if my XBOX 360 can do it, why can't a Tivo S3?


Outputting video (which is MPEG compressed) can happen at 1080i, but that's (probably) not how a Series 3 would play a picture -- different parts are involved, notably the MPEG decoder. Graphics are going to go through some sort of graphics buffer (i.e. a chunk of some variety of RAM) that is superimposed on the video. This isn't true in an XBOX -- everything (video, graphics, rendered polygons) is all basically being rendered into a graphics buffer (one being driven by far more sophisticated graphics hardware, to boot.)

My understanding is that menus on the S3 are 720p, so it seems as if they run the graphics buffer in that mode for HD HME apps like HD Photos as well. I speculated on a hardware limitation in an earlier post, but thinking on it further, it probably isn't a hardware limit, since the guide doesn't cause a resolution switch, and it is superimposed on 1080i (barring a very odd placement of scaling in their video pipeline.)

In the general HME case, which flings image data around on your LAN, sticking to the smaller resolution makes some sense. In any case, this is only a preview release -- who knows? Maybe this will change by the time it's final?


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

George Cifranci said:


> Not sure I understand. A Tivo S3 can output in 1080i which is 1920x1080. My Sony SXRD has a native resolution of 1920x1080, it can only handle a 1080i input, my XBOX 360 only outputs to that TV in 1080i and still can apparently display a 1920x1080 still image. So if my XBOX 360 can do it, why can't a Tivo S3?


Your TV already has a 1080i to 1080p 'deinterlacer'. Why would you want to add another one in the Tivo?


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## Pab Sungenis (Apr 13, 2002)

90% of the video out there on the net, even legitimate video, is AVI format.

TivoDesktop 2.4 doesn't support AVI.

Thus, TivoDesktop 2.4 is about as useful as mammaries on a bull.

Way to go, guys. Another brilliant move.


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## Maeglin (Sep 27, 2006)

Pab Sungenis said:


> Thus, TivoDesktop 2.4 is about as useful as mammaries on a bull.


With that analogy, a bull can still get pregnant with some help. You've never heard of the concept of a file converter?

Not that you can transfer video from a PC to an S3 right now, anyway...

What I personally don't get is that, instead of making the HD photo viewer an HME app and losing some of the functionality, they couldn't just fix the built-in photo viewer app on S3 boxes as it was already running at HD resolutions anyway.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

ewilts said:


> I've upgraded my JRE but it still won't run. java.com successfully validates the install but as soon as I try to run the HD Photos, I get a Java error. It's requesting the JRE 1.5+ and then I get an application error, "Unable to launch the application" stating that the JRE is not locally installed and must be installed manually. I haven't figured it out yet :-(
> 
> .../Ed


I got a similar result. Installed everything OK (JRE 1.5), checked the box but got the Java msg "unable to launch application" . On the "details' it says it couldn't find URL hdphotos.jnlp

Any help very appreciated


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## acampos4182 (Sep 17, 2006)

I have not been able to get extra menu option for the HD pictures to show up on my S3. I have enabled the preview photos 2.0 with HD support in Server properties and still no luck. anyone have any ideas.

thanks


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

OK. Back in business. Just unistalled Tivo Desktop and re-installed it again and now the pictures are in HD.


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

When I try to play my .tivo files on my PC the timer runs but there's no picture and no sound. 

-=Tim=-


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

slimoli said:


> I got a similar result. Installed everything OK (JRE 1.5), checked the box but got the Java msg "unable to launch application" . On the "details' it says it couldn't find URL hdphotos.jnlp
> 
> Any help very appreciated


I ended up uninstalling and re-installing java a bunch of times before I got it to work. I also ended up cleaning up (or deleting I think) the application data\sun\java directory, the program files directory, and whatever else I could find. Eventually it actually did work.

After all that, I now see that some of the HD Photos actually display *worse* than the in the SD viewer. That's an issue I have to figure out how to report. It displays, but the picture quality is pretty poor on some images.

.../Ed


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## rcobourn (Nov 10, 2004)

You don't seem to have gotten the TiVo desktop supplied codecs installed correctly. Uninstall / reinstall might get it done.


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

rcobourn said:


> You don't seem to have gotten the TiVo desktop supplied codecs installed correctly. Uninstall / reinstall might get it done.


Franks! 

-=Tim=-


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## Timber (Apr 28, 2002)

I need to ask a dumb question, what program should I use to playback my .tivo files on my PC?

-=Tim=-


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## hunts (Oct 5, 2006)

Windows media player will play .tivo files.


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## Pab Sungenis (Apr 13, 2002)

Maeglin said:


> With that analogy, a bull can still get pregnant with some help. You've never heard of the concept of a file converter?


If I wanted to use file converters, I'd stick with the old version where I still had to go through that step. The big thing they were pushing with 2.4 was that you wouldn't NEED conversion programs. Wrong. You still do.

I'm one of the biggest TiVo boosters out there, and even I'm getting frustrated with misstep after misstep.


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## tivoknucklehead (Dec 12, 2002)

is there a thread or FAQ about using the new 2.4 Tivo desktop to watch videos stored on your PC on the S3 ?


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

tivoknucklehead said:


> is there a thread or FAQ about using the new 2.4 Tivo desktop to watch videos stored on your PC on the S3 ?


 No video or FAQ because it's NOT POSSIBLE YET and probably won't be until/if TTG/MRV is ever enabled. Frustrating because the S3 would make a great home media solution given it's capabilities and built in decoders - right now Tivo Desktop is very crippled when it comes to working with S3.


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## SugarBowl (Jan 5, 2007)

acampos4182 said:


> I have not been able to get extra menu option for the HD pictures to show up on my S3. I have enabled the preview photos 2.0 with HD support in Server properties and still no luck. anyone have any ideas.
> 
> thanks


Same here. It worked once, the very first time i installed 2.4. Since then, i have never seen the HD Photos option show up.


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## hornblowercat (Mar 4, 2007)

Why does it even let you store a video? All it does is play it on your windows media player.

Sorry if this is a dumb question. I'm new to the forum.


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## Higuchem (Jan 3, 2006)

sobenski said:


> No Mac version? Here we go again...


Well I guess Us mac users will have to wait a few years for this or pay for it just like the basic video transfer we have now for S2. 

Macs need some love too!!!! That includes not paying for it!!!!


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## cramer (Aug 14, 2000)

SugarBowl said:


> Same here. It worked once, the very first time i installed 2.4. Since then, i have never seen the HD Photos option show up.


If your machine has more than one network interface (wired vs. wireless, vmware, vpn, etc.) odds are the stupid java app is binding the wrong interface. I had to disable everything but the wireless interface to make it work.

C:\>netstat -na | grep 7288
TCP 192.168.1.61:7288 0.0.0.0:0 LISTENING

It ignores the interface selected by the desktop app itself.

And you have to be connected to the internet when the "app" starts as the 2 jar files are loaded remotely.


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## tedler (Jan 19, 2007)

While the photos are in 720p, I still see compression artifacts in backgrounds, walls, floors, etc... These I do NOT see on my LCD monitor, and the camera is a 7megapixel.

The 2.4 software must be compressing the photos before sending them through the network to the Tivo, so this "HD" photo viewer is not much improvement over the SD picture quality of 2.3.


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## Maeglin (Sep 27, 2006)

tedler said:


> The 2.4 software must be compressing the photos before sending them through the network to the Tivo, so this "HD" photo viewer is not much improvement over the SD picture quality of 2.3.


Whether it's 480 lines or 720, it's still a small fraction of of a full 7MP image... of course it's going to scale it down, and uncompressing/scaling/recompressing a JPEG is never going to leave the image at its original quality.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

tedler said:


> While the photos are in 720p, I still see compression artifacts in backgrounds, walls, floors, etc... These I do NOT see on my LCD monitor, and the camera is a 7megapixel.
> 
> The 2.4 software must be compressing the photos before sending them through the network to the Tivo, so this "HD" photo viewer is not much improvement over the SD picture quality of 2.3.


1) Your PC monitor probably has a higher resolution than the TiVo Photo app. My laptop is 1400x1100 approx, but the Photo app is only x720. So it will not be quite as hi-res as viewing on your PC.

2) The scaling program may be better/worse in different apps.

3) It is *most definitely* a huge improvement over the old TiVo Photo app. If you actually looked at the display on your HDTV, there is no way you would say " this "HD" photo viewer is not much improvement over the SD". Not just IMHO


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## kas25 (Mar 10, 2003)

I just got the S3 and installed 2.4. It picked up Galleon apps right away and showed the folders from my music/pics but hangs up when I try to open them. They are both pretty large but Galleon opened them pretty quickly. Is there anything else to check? Should I not be running Galleon and 2.4 at the same time?


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## tedler (Jan 19, 2007)

astrohip said:


> there is no way you would say " this "HD" photo viewer is not much improvement over the SD". Not just IMHO


Point taken. There certainly is an improvement. But I guess I was expecting more. Oh well. I am still happy with the improvement.
The only thing that stunk was that I had to install XP SP2 over my SP1 system to get 2.4 to work. That took time. What did SP2 have in it that SP1 didn't for this app?


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

astrohip said:


> 3) It is *most definitely* a huge improvement over the old TiVo Photo app. If you actually looked at the display on your HDTV, there is no way you would say " this "HD" photo viewer is not much improvement over the SD". Not just IMHO


Since the TiVo Desktop application now shows up twice in the menu - once in HD and once in SD - it's easy to visually compare the two. It is NOT most definitely a huge improvement. In some cases, the HD photo is *worse* than the SD photo. This is displaying the same image from the same source on the same TV - just using the SD vs HD interface on the S3. If I had some time, I'd try and figure out who the right person is to report this to so that I can send them the source photo and screen photos. Anybody know who the report this to? Electronically - I'm not willing to spend 10s of minutes on the phone waiting for a customer support rep.

.../Ed


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

I suppose anything is possible, since I'm not at your TV, and vice versa. I can only speak for me, and the difference is dramatic, and immediately noticeable. It does seem strange that an HD photo app would not be an improvement over the standard app. But perhaps there is some combination of factors that is making your display not superior in HD?


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## static14 (Jan 5, 2007)

anyone figured out a fix yet? i've tried uninstalling and reinstalling java and the desktop app over and over and i still get the java error every time.

and help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

static14 said:


> anyone figured out a fix yet? i've tried uninstalling and reinstalling java and the desktop app over and over and i still get the java error every time.
> 
> and help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> thanks


I had the same problem and here is how I had it fixed:

-Uninstall TIVO DESKTOP.
-Uninstall ALL the Java software you have in your PC.
-Install again the Java software and do all the updates BEFORE you
-Install the TIVO DESKTOP again.

What made a difference was to have all the Java stuff ready BEFORE installing the Desktop. Try it.

Sergio


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## static14 (Jan 5, 2007)

if it's the newest version of java are there still updates? and how do i download them? (sorry if this is a dumb question)


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

First go to control panel and uninstall all Java Runtime Environment programs. Unisntall Tivo Desktop. Download and install version 5.0 of Java Runtime Environment from

http://www.java.com/en/download/index.jsp

After you install Java Runtime Environment, if there is any new update it will be done automatically.

Re-install Tivo Desktop and you should be good to go.

Sergio


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## static14 (Jan 5, 2007)

i tired all the steps you listed and i'm still not having any luck.


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## gwar9999 (Jan 16, 2007)

Since TiVo is built on linux why the heck isn't Tivo Desktop available for linux? 

I've tried running Galleon but my S3 doesn't seem to be able to connect to it even though it successfully launches on the linux computer. I also tried TivoSlimserverClient (since I own a Slimp3) and it did work so I'm sure that Tivo should be able to connect to Galleon since there is no firewall blocking access on my LAN. Both Galleon and TivoSlimserverClient use the HME library, so I'm unsure why my S3 can connect to one but not the other.

If Tivo would just release their apps for linux then that would be awesome. I don't understand why they embrace linux for their hardware but shun it otherwise.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

I have Galleon working with my S3 (music and photos only, obviously). 

In the Galleon GUI, did you select a network interface? Also, I had to disable IPv6 back when I originally set everything up.


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## gwar9999 (Jan 16, 2007)

windracer said:


> I have Galleon working with my S3 (music and photos only, obviously).
> 
> In the Galleon GUI, did you select a network interface? Also, I had to disable IPv6 back when I originally set everything up.


Maybe I need to read the tutorial again... I had set it up last month and when Tivo couldn't connect to it, I stopped messing around with it.

FWIW, the "PC IP Address" is set to the Galleon server's IP. When I press the *Test* button, it displays the name of my Tivo box in the progress bar, however when it completes, it says that no Tivo's were found.

When I then try to add the PC (Galleon server) IP Address to my Tivo, Tivo says that no server could be found at that address.


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

I've been playing with the music portion of this software and it works pretty good. Does it only work with MP3 material? I tried with some .wav files and it didn't see them. The ability to play .wav would be nice, in fact, .flac would be even better. Also, some sort of visualization screen would be nice instead of just the floating info banner.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

keenanSR said:


> I've been playing with the music portion of this software and it works pretty good. Does it only work with MP3 material? I tried with some .wav files and it didn't see them. The ability to play .wav would be nice, in fact, .flac would be even better. Also, some sort of visualization screen would be nice instead of just the floating info banner.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=295778


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

cherry ghost said:


> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=295778


Outstanding, thanks!!


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## A-1 (Mar 12, 2007)

Tivo says Asta La Vista or, maybe it just forgot there is another version of Windows out? As this... a well a... yeah..It does not work on Windows Vista. Not even in Compatibility mode for XP.


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

I need some help. I see two entries for viewing photos on tivo. What i dont see is the icons on the left side. how do i get this??


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## angel35 (Nov 5, 2004)

angel35 said:


> I need some help. I see two entries for viewing photos on tivo. What i dont see is the icons on the left side. how do i get this??


I dont know what I did but icons came on today :up:


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

gwar9999 said:


> Since TiVo is built on linux why the heck isn't Tivo Desktop available for linux?
> 
> I've tried running Galleon but my S3 doesn't seem to be able to connect to it even though it successfully launches on the linux computer. I also tried TivoSlimserverClient (since I own a Slimp3) and it did work so I'm sure that Tivo should be able to connect to Galleon since there is no firewall blocking access on my LAN. Both Galleon and TivoSlimserverClient use the HME library, so I'm unsure why my S3 can connect to one but not the other.
> 
> If Tivo would just release their apps for linux then that would be awesome. I don't understand why they embrace linux for their hardware but shun it otherwise.


Galleon does work on S3s, it has been working on both of mine since I received them back in September. As far as the Linux thing goes, I'd imagine the market share is just too small compared to Windows.


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

i'm confused, the download page for galleon (http://galleon.tv/content/view/96/57/) shows distributions for Windows, Linux and "Unix/MacOS".


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## Leo_N (Nov 13, 2003)

bizzy said:


> i'm confused, the download page for galleon (http://galleon.tv/content/view/96/57/) shows distributions for Windows, Linux and "Unix/MacOS".


I believe he was talking about TivoDesktop with the Linux remarks.


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## Joegold (Feb 19, 2007)

Anyone know when this preview will be available for mac?


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## gwar9999 (Jan 16, 2007)

Leo_N said:


> I believe he was talking about TivoDesktop with the Linux remarks.


Yes. I want TivoDesktop for Linux! There is no reason that Tivo should ignore Linux even though Windows & Mac have a larger market share. If they have a portable app between Windows and Mac they should be able to also port it to Linux. I've written cross-platform GUI applications that run fine on Windows, OS/X and Linux using the Qt framework. There are little differences between the systems when using a common graphical library which handles the differences for you. Besides, Tivo developers are obviously well-versed in Linux since the Tivo box runs Linux inside.

I've tried Galleon on Linux and haven't had any luck (Tivo doesn't recognize it). I will try disabling ipv6 in the linux kernel (via /etc/modules.conf) since I read a post in the Galleon forums that ipv6 could cause a problem. However, the fact that Galleon is no longer supported I'd rather use something that will have additional features in the future, etc...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

SCSIRAID said:


> Yup... me too... My home server is where all my media is kept and it is Windows Server 2003. I cant believe they block the install... Why not just warn that it isnt supported and let it install.
> 
> Its ironic that Tivo Server isnt allowed to run on Window's Server OS.
> 
> Tivo.. please fix this!!!


Windows Server 2003 SP2 was just released, TiVo Desktop 2.4 preview works fine with it..!


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## bjaques (Apr 26, 2005)

V2.4 only runs on XP It will not install on windows 2003.


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## SCSIRAID (Feb 2, 2003)

bjaques said:


> V2.4 only runs on XP It will not install on windows 2003.


Not true. If you install WS03 Service Pack 2 the 2.4 preview will run fine. I just did it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

bjaques said:


> V2.4 only runs on XP It will not install on windows 2003.


When I said "Windows Server 2003 SP2 was just released, TiVo Desktop 2.4 preview works fine with it..!", I meant that I'm running it right now, perfectly fine.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

So, the TiVo Recordings folder is dead right now right? I've tried placing every format of video in it, but my S3 AND my S2 simply don't see my computer on the "Now Playing " list.

I guess it's supposed to be able to play WMA, MOV, MPG2/4 and other format videos eventually though?


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

Bighouse said:


> I guess it's supposed to be able to play WMA, MOV, MPG2/4 and other format videos eventually though?


Do we really have any indication that it'll eventually play anything other than MPEG2? It'd be pretty sweet if it would play DIVX/MPEG4 files.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

etsolow said:


> Do we really have any indication that it'll eventually play anything other than MPEG2? It'd be pretty sweet if it would play DIVX/MPEG4 files.


Well in the readme file it says it supposed to be able to do MOV, WMA and MPEG2 and MPEG4...and I think viix or something like that.

So, I guess you could consider that an "indication".


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## etsolow (Feb 8, 2001)

Bighouse said:


> Well in the readme file it says it supposed to be able to do MOV, WMA and MPEG2 and MPEG4...and I think viix or something like that.
> 
> So, I guess you could consider that an "indication".


You certainly could!


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

I see Vista is not yet supported on any versions.


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## Testpattern (Dec 5, 2006)

PhillyGuy said:


> It wouldn't run on Windows Vista.


Look luck... My experience suggest damned little runs on Vista....


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## drew00001 (Jan 13, 2007)

Bighouse said:


> Well in the readme file it says it supposed to be able to do MOV, WMA and MPEG2 and MPEG4...and I think viix or something like that.
> 
> So, I guess you could consider that an "indication".


Can TivoDesktop play WMA files? If so, is the paid verision required? I am using 2.5 (free) and have only been able to play MP3 files, and about 1/4 of my music files are WMA.


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