# Beware Of Ptvupgrade com



## adamofevil

I ordered InstantCake from PTVupgrade com for my Series2 Tivo 24004A. Unfortunately, I accidentally ordered an older version of it that even cost more money than the latest version (unusual). From the drop down box, I simply picked the only choice that had my exact model # in it. The problem is, the version I bought doesn't support hard drives larger than 136GB and my hard drive is 250GB. When I inquired about it this is the response I received:

"If you chose the wrong version, I'm sorry, but all download sales are final and you agreed to those terms when you downloaded it. If you need the 7.1b version, you will have to purchase that version."

So I am just warning everyone out there about this company. I am being punished for an honest mistake. Now I have old software that doesn't work properly with my hardware and I'm stuck with it.

Yeah, I made a mistake, but I think as a company that sells any product this is completely unethical. I don't even care about the extra money it cost for the older version, I wasn't asking for a refund. I just wanted the latest version of what I already purchased. It's not like I ordered software for 2 different units. The old and new version are for the same model Tivos. 

What do you all think about this?


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## JamieP

adamofevil said:


> Now I have old software that doesn't work properly with my hardware and I'm stuck with it.


Chances are you aren't stuck with it. Apply the old software image to your disk without expanding. Then put it in your tivo and have it call in. It should upgrade to a 7.x release. Then pull it out and put it back into your PC to expand with mfsadd.


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## robbins

I would do a chargeback on my credit card if I were you. Jerks.


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## Markman07

Just curious how soon after you downloaded it did you realize your error? I agree if it was within a day or so that the customer should get the benefit of the doubt. But that is just my opinion.


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## Sparty99

adamofevil said:


> Yeah, I made a mistake, but I think as a company that sells any product this is completely unethical. I don't even care about the extra money it cost for the older version, I wasn't asking for a refund. I just wanted the latest version of what I already purchased. It's not like I ordered software for 2 different units. The old and new version are for the same model Tivos.


From their website:



> We cannot guarantee that this bootable CD-product will work on your system, and if this is something you are concerned about, please consider our kits or professional installation services.
> 
> InstantCake is provided without warranty or support from PTVupgrade. InstantCake is a DIY software product and is not eligible for refund, however if you are unable to use InstantCake to complete your own upgrade, and decide to purchase our kits or professional services, we will credit you the InstantCake purchase price towards the purchase of any of our kits or services. Place your kit order in our shopping cart and respond to your order confirmation with documentation of your InstantCake order, and we'll make the adjustment to your new order.


Seems like they're very explicit that the download wasn't eligible for refund and, in fact, this is no different than any software is treated at any retailer. There's no way to offer a refund for software because there's no way for a retailer to be assured that you're not running copies and selling it yourself. I'm sure that's not the case, but having issued the disclaimer that they don't issue refunds on this item, I can't see how warning a message board about a reputable company because of your mistake is all that fair.


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## Markman07

You have some good points there that I hadn't thought of.


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## Barryrod

Do what JaimeP says to do...It should work out for you.

PTVUpgrade is charging for the service of having the proper image and hosting it. They are not selling the image itself as it can not be sold, therefore they won't refund you as you did download it (what they charge for)....This is a file on a Bootable Instantcake CD....





InstantCake is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

InstantCake is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with InstantCake; if not, write to the Free Software
Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307 USA


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## adamofevil

1) I notified them within 10 minutes of receiving the e-mail with the link. I was reading some of the posts on their forums while the image was downloading when I discovered there were 2 versions of the same software. I never even bothered to burn it. 

2) I did NOT ask them for a refund. Even though I paid $30.00 for an OLDER version of software that they now charge $20.00 for. All I want is the latest version.

3) I have purchased MANY software titles in my lifetime, and in my entire life I have never been DUPED into buying an older version of a piece of software, and then DENIED the latest version within the first 10 minutes of the purchase. Sure, I can understand having purchased something a year ago, and now theres a new major release or something. But this isn't the case. I paid my $30.00. I should be entitled to the latest version. You say "There's no way to offer a refund for software because there's no way for a retailer to be assured that you're not running copies and selling it yourself." However, the software is free to be distributed. So this is obviously not the issue. The issue is the pennies worth of bandwidth I consumed downloading the incorrect version of software.

4) A company that doesn't "issue refunds" should be informative during the ordering process. For example, maybe a WARNING that there are more than one version of the software you are adding to your cart. The choices were "ALL 240 models" and "24004A". Naturally, I picked the one with my exact model # on it rather than some possible generic image that isn't specific for my Tivo. HONEST mistake. I should be punished for this?

5) I wasn't even offered an alternative solution like JamieP recommended. I was simply given the "boot". Basically the guy said "Thanks for your $30.00, now screw off".

6) I wouldn't expect to get ANY type of polite customer service, if ANY customer service from these people for ANY product you order from them. I called them several times after the purchase was made (and yes, it was during business hours) and received an answering machine each time. Like I would actually expect them to call me back, after the e-mail above that I received. In fact, the first two e-mails I sent them, I received a response within a minute or two each one. After that last email from above, they stopped responding to my e-mails. I've been given the "cold shoulder" now. 

I highly doubt it would be any skin off anyones back there to allow me to get the latest version. How I've been treated by them is unethical, rude, and just plain bad business practice, regardless of any disclaimers.

I dont have money to throw in the garbage. Do you? You'd better pray to the lord that your finger doesn't slip or that you accidentally spell your name or e-mail address wrong when dealing with PTVUpgrade, or youll be sorry too!

So I have very good reason to warn people about them. Most people like to feel safe when purchasing things online. Well, you aren't safe when purchasing anything from PTVUpgrade. After the customer service I received, I wouldn't recommend buying anything from them let alone actually sending them my Tivo since they don't even answer the telephone.

Is this how you would treat your paying customers in your own business? If it is, and you're willing to risk getting a bad reputation over $30.00, then you don't belong in the retail business.


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## JWThiers

Sorry you had such a bad time, but the policy is simple. No refunds on downloaded software. You have the iso and there is no way you can assure them that you have deleted ALL copies of the iso that you may have made. The reason why anolder version is available is because some people want the older software, Why? You'd have to ask them I'm not one of them. Could/should they have made it more obvious you were ordering older software? I don't know, I didn't have any issues when I ordered.

Do what JaimieP said, it should work.


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## bengalfreak

adamofevil said:


> 1)
> 3) I have purchased MANY software titles in my lifetime, and in my entire life I have never been DUPED into buying an older version of a piece of software, and then DENIED the latest version within the first 10 minutes of the purchase. Sure, I can understand having purchased something a year ago, and now there's a new major release or something. But this isn't the case. I paid my $30.00. I should be entitled to the latest version. You say "There's no way to offer a refund for software because there's no way for a retailer to be assured that you're not running copies and selling it yourself." However, the software is free to be distributed. So this is obviously not the issue. The issue is the pennies worth of bandwidth I consumed downloading the incorrect version of software.


You weren't duped at all. You purchased a piece of software for $30.00 and received exactly what you asked for. PTV offers older versions of the software because people still want the older versions for various reasons. Its your responsibility to know which version of the software that you want and which version you are purchasing. And despite what others have said, Tivo images are not free. Tivo has issued cease and desist orders to sites hosting image files. The instant cake software might be free, but the Tivo image it applies to your hard disk is not.

Now, a lot of companies, in the spirit of good customer relations, would have tried to make you happy in order to receive word of mouth goodwill. But, THEY ARE UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO DO SO.

So, be a man, admit that you made a mistake and pony up the $20 for the software that you really wanted. Or, just apply the image you purchased and let the software be updated over the phone and you'll not be any more out of pocket than you already are.


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## Luv2DrvFst

Why does this thread feel so familiar to the griping quaestor had about PTV?


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## Billy66

You use words like "Punished" and "Duped" to describe the results of YOUR choices. That's incredible.

Would it be nice for them to cut you a break? Sure, but I can see why they don't in this case. Be more careful next time.


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## tivoupgrade

adamofevil said:


> 1) I notified them within 10 minutes of receiving the e-mail with the link. I was reading some of the posts on their forums while the image was downloading when I discovered there were 2 versions of the same software. I never even bothered to burn it.
> 
> 2) I did NOT ask them for a refund. Even though I paid $30.00 for an OLDER version of software that they now charge $20.00 for. All I want is the latest version.
> 
> 3) I have purchased MANY software titles in my lifetime, and in my entire life I have never been DUPED into buying an older version of a piece of software, and then DENIED the latest version within the first 10 minutes of the purchase. Sure, I can understand having purchased something a year ago, and now theres a new major release or something. But this isn't the case. I paid my $30.00. I should be entitled to the latest version. You say "There's no way to offer a refund for software because there's no way for a retailer to be assured that you're not running copies and selling it yourself." However, the software is free to be distributed. So this is obviously not the issue. The issue is the pennies worth of bandwidth I consumed downloading the incorrect version of software.
> 
> 4) A company that doesn't "issue refunds" should be informative during the ordering process. For example, maybe a WARNING that there are more than one version of the software you are adding to your cart. The choices were "ALL 240 models" and "24004A". Naturally, I picked the one with my exact model # on it rather than some possible generic image that isn't specific for my Tivo. HONEST mistake. I should be punished for this?
> 
> 5) I wasn't even offered an alternative solution like JamieP recommended. I was simply given the "boot". Basically the guy said "Thanks for your $30.00, now screw off".
> 
> 6) I wouldn't expect to get ANY type of polite customer service, if ANY customer service from these people for ANY product you order from them. I called them several times after the purchase was made (and yes, it was during business hours) and received an answering machine each time. Like I would actually expect them to call me back, after the e-mail above that I received. In fact, the first two e-mails I sent them, I received a response within a minute or two each one. After that last email from above, they stopped responding to my e-mails. I've been given the "cold shoulder" now.
> 
> I highly doubt it would be any skin off anyones back there to allow me to get the latest version. How I've been treated by them is unethical, rude, and just plain bad business practice, regardless of any disclaimers.
> 
> I dont have money to throw in the garbage. Do you? You'd better pray to the lord that your finger doesn't slip or that you accidentally spell your name or e-mail address wrong when dealing with PTVUpgrade, or youll be sorry too!
> 
> So I have very good reason to warn people about them. Most people like to feel safe when purchasing things online. Well, you aren't safe when purchasing anything from PTVUpgrade. After the customer service I received, I wouldn't recommend buying anything from them let alone actually sending them my Tivo since they don't even answer the telephone.
> 
> Is this how you would treat your paying customers in your own business? If it is, and you're willing to risk getting a bad reputation over $30.00, then you don't belong in the retail business.


Adam,

We actually attempted to educate you about our policies prior to the completion of your purchase. This included the following information:
*
Due to the nature of downloadable software products, please understand that there are no refunds on purchases of this product and no exchanges should you select the wrong version of software for your TiVo.  *

Not sure what that means to you, but to me, that means, take a step back, and make sure you are doing what you intend to do. The reason we put such phrases in front of you, in spite of the fact that it might slow down your purchase, or cause you to rethink it altogether, is to avoid situations exactly like this one. If you don't think that, or the additional information we asked you to review prior to the completion of your purchase was appropriate, you would definitely be taking a minority position.

To claim that you were duped, and that we are unethical, simply as a result of honoring our policies really doesn't make sense to me at all. And subsequent attempts to harass my employees, ring our phones off the hook, or extort 'special treatment' by posting on a public bulletin board (which we happen to sponsor) aren't going to change my position on that. In fact, it just solidifies my current position even further. Furthermore, I reviewed the responses you were sent to your initial inquries, and they were not rude, they were simply not the answer you wanted to hear.

To any and all others who might be reading this thread:

InstantCake, along with many of our DIY software utilities, are TOOLS for DIY upgraders. As with any tool, some skill and knowledge is required when acquiring and attempting to use it. We do ask that before purchasing anything from us, whether its a fully upgraded unit, a preconfigured kit, or a DIY utility CD, that you have a full understanding of what you are purchasing, how you are going to use it, how and where the product is supported, and the return policies associated with it.

Given the accusations made in this thread, the responses given, and the fact that we've offered products and services to this community for as long as we have, I am confident as I've ever been that we are fair and ethical in our practices.

Very best,

Lou Jacob
PTVupgrade


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## willardcpa

adamofevil said:


> ....You'd better pray to the lord that your finger doesn't slip or that you accidentally spell your name or e-mail address wrong when dealing with PTVUpgrade, or youll be sorry too!....


You forgot to include buying the wrong software in the list.  
If you'd included that in your list when you made your prayer before you pushed the buy button maybe things would have turned out differently for you.


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## adamofevil

> And subsequent attempts to harass my employees, ring our phones off the hook, or extort 'special treatment' by posting on a public bulletin board (which we happen to sponsor) aren't going to change my position on that.


You've got to be joking me. I called your office TWICE , both of which times an answering machine picked up and I did NOT leave any messages. If that is what you call "RINGING PHONES OFF THE HOOK" , then you need your head examined.

I also sent 2 additional e-mails to your "EMPLOYEE" after receiving the above response. I paid you guys $30.00 I at least have the right to complain a couple of more times. Oh my , what harrassment and agony I caused your poor employee with a total of two WHOLE emails!!!!!

Posting on a public bulletin board, regardless of whether or not you sponsor it, is my freedom to express my opinion. In no way shape or form is this any type of extortion. It's called freedom of speech. Something us Americans know how to do very well. Call it what you want, it was the ONLY way I was able to get any further response out of your company, since you don't answer your phone and you don't respond to my e-mails, yet you instantly charged my credit card in a matter of seconds.

My story is 100% true. There is no fabrications here, other than Lou's claims that I "harrassed" his employees, or "rang his phones off the hook" (LAUGH!), or tried to "extort" him? LOL! So let the people read and decide for themselves. I'm sure there will be money lost for you as a result. I'm sure you don't care either way.

Lou, if you will, please explain to me what "THE NATURE OF DOWNLOADABLE PRODUCTS IS". If your own license claims that InstantCake is free for distribution, then what exactly is the NATURE of the downloadable product that makes it ineligible for a refund? And don't tell me BANDWIDTH, because you ALLOW that LINK in your EMAIL to be used an unlimited number of times for a certain amount of time. Not to mention you offer a RAW ISO (over 500MB) to be downloaded without any type of checksum or CRC. That means some people have actually downloaded their files maybe 5 or 10 times before getting an image that HOPEFULLY will be free from transfer errors. So allowing me to download another image from your site would not have costed you a penny more.

Your "no refunds" and "no exchange" policy doesn't quite fit the bill. Nonetheless, I admitted the mistake I made, I am just here to tell everyone how unforgiving and nasty your company is. I can't imagine someone actually sending and trusting you with their Tivo.


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## rbautch

Come now. If Lou had to hold everyone's hand, and provide around the clock operators, do you think he could sell his stuff so cheaply? I think not. He made the choice to sell it as a DIY product (since that's pretty much what this hobbly is a about ) without a full blown support machine behind it. He's upfront about that fact, and doesn't make exceptions because then he'd have to make them for everyone. We've all made dumb mistakes (I recently applied a tivo image to my c: drive  ). $30 aint the end of the world. Time to move on and start hacking that tivo.

edit: Try the Zipper on your tivo...I'll let you use it for free, and it's worth much more that $30!


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## adamofevil

> If Lou had to hold everyone's hand, and provide around the clock operators, do you think he could sell his stuff so cheaply?


Nobody is asking for hand holding or around the clock operators. He DOES have employee(s) responding to customers emails. He DOES take his time to write long responses to complaints like this, obviously. It would have taken a LOT less time to just let me have the correct version, and it would not have cost him a dime.



> He made the choice to sell it as a DIY product (since that's pretty much what this hobbly is a about ) without a full blown support machine behind it.


You don't need a full blown support machine behind it to kindly offer someone the correct download for a mistake they admitted to make. It's called COMPASSION. Another word for it is APPRECIATION for the money you've been given.


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## airjrdn

I figured I'd chime in...

I don't lurk here much. In fact, I only come here when I'm ready to do some form of an "upgrade". I've now "hacked" 3 Tivos, all thanks to this board.

This past week I became interested in "The Zipper" and decided I was willing to give it a go since I had a DTivo unit I hadn't been using, and an extra 200G HD lying around.

I'd never heard of, much less purchased anything from PTVUpgrade, but it was suggested in the docs so I decided to do it. I was "extremely" careful when ordering to make sure I got the right thing. I saw their warnings and actually thought to myself "If this isn't right, I'm out ~$20". Everything looked right though, so I proceeded with the purchase.

I'm sitting here now with a DTivo that I can do everything I want to with, and the outgoing cost was extremely minimal thanks to all of the information found within and linked from this board.

While I sympathize with you, I think you were fairly cautioned, and made a mistake. They've got their policy, and whether you agree with it or not, it's the one they go by. I'm sure they have reasons for sticking to it.

Complaining here (or warning others; however you want to justify it) isn't going to do much other than make you look bad in the end. I'd suggest either purchasing the one you really need, or simply chalking this up as a lesson learned.

Hurt feelings aside, all sales are final and you purchased the incorrect item. Try as I might, I can't really understand how they've done anything wrong.

To reiterate, I'm pretty much a neutral voice here. My opinion is unbiased, as I don't really know anything about PTVUpgrade or you.

Either way, good luck with the Tivo stuff, it's well worth it in the end.


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## David Platt

adamofevil said:


> You don't need a full blown support machine behind it to kindly offer someone the correct download for a mistake they admitted to make. It's called COMPASSION. Another word for it is APPRECIATION for the money you've been given.


You didn't _give_ him any money. You paid him for a product he provided. He doesn't owe you any appreciation beyond thanking you for paying for the product he provided. It's not like you just sen him the money out of the goodness of your heart.


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## JWThiers

adamofevil said:


> You don't need a full blown support machine behind it to kindly offer someone the correct download for a mistake they admitted to make. It's called COMPASSION. Another word for it is APPRECIATION for the money you've been given.


And how many copies of the ISO did you make, Can you prove it. The reason there are no refunds on downloaded software is because there is no way to prove you have deleted it. I am not accusing you but a good way to get both iso's would be to claim you got the wrong one and get a replacement. That is the downfall when you are dealing with bits and not a physical item. Sounds a lot like MP3's and the RIAA (god I never thought I would take their side). PTV provided you with a product that once it leaves them their server is no way of knowing what is done to it. If you didn't get the download or your computer crashed the next day and you hadn't burned the CD yet you might have a gripe and I am sure that you would get a more sympathetic ear , but I got the wrong one... Sorry to hear it, do you want to buy the correct one have at it, or just load it wait for it to upgrade and make an image of that. Its the long way around but hey it was your bad not theirs. Now learn from your mistake and move on.


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## JWThiers

rbautch said:


> Come now. If Lou had to hold everyone's hand, and provide around the clock operators, do you think he could sell his stuff so cheaply? I think not. He made the choice to sell it as a DIY product (since that's pretty much what this hobbly is a about ) without a full blown support machine behind it. He's upfront about that fact, and doesn't make exceptions because then he'd have to make them for everyone. We've all made dumb mistakes (I recently applied a tivo image to my c: drive  ). $30 aint the end of the world. Time to move on and start hacking that tivo.
> 
> edit: Try the Zipper on your tivo...I'll let you use it for free, and it's worth much more that $30!


Too expensive unless you can provide instant around the clock personal support. Wait a minute you do that don't you? Might have been worth the price. ROFLMAO


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## Turtleboy

adamofevil said:


> Posting on a public bulletin board, regardless of whether or not you sponsor it, is my freedom to express my opinion. In no way shape or form is this any type of extortion. It's called freedom of speech. Something us Americans know how to do very well. Call it what you want, it was the ONLY way I was able to get any further response out of your company, since you don't answer your phone and you don't respond to my e-mails, yet you instantly charged my credit card in a matter of seconds.
> .


Sorry, this isn't a public bulletin board. It's a private bulliten board. It's the private property of David Bott. There is no freedom of speech here. We can't talk about extracting shows, we can't talk about stealing DTV service, we usually can't talk about politics, etc.

That's fine.

I have no dog in this show. I've never hacked my Tivo. I just wanted to point out that saying "I have freedom of speech" makes you look even more silly than you already do.


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## JWThiers

Turtleboy said:


> I just wanted to point out that saying "I have freedom of speech" makes you look even more silly than you already do.


I had the Right to remain silent....But I didn't...


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## adamofevil

JWThiers said:


> And how many copies of the ISO did you make, Can you prove it. The reason there are no refunds on downloaded software is because there is no way to prove you have deleted it.


Sorry, but I don't think that is why there is no refunds. Even their own web site claims you are free to distribute the file as you please. It's not copyrighted. Try some other argument, because that one is invalid.


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## adamofevil

Turtleboy said:


> Sorry, this isn't a public bulletin board. It's a private bulliten board. It's the private property of David Bott. There is no freedom of speech here. We can't talk about extracting shows, we can't talk about stealing DTV service, we usually can't talk about politics, etc.
> 
> That's fine.
> 
> I have no dog in this show. I've never hacked my Tivo. I just wanted to point out that saying "I have freedom of speech" makes you look even more silly than you already do.


I am not the one that claimed this bulletin board was public. In fact ,it was the guy from PTVupgrade, who supposedly sponsors this board, who claimed it was public. So now who's the silly one?


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## adamofevil

David Platt said:


> You didn't _give_ him any money. You paid him for a product he provided. He doesn't owe you any appreciation beyond thanking you for paying for the product he provided. It's not like you just sen him the money out of the goodness of your heart.


Give money, paid, whatever dude. Rather than being a grammar nazi why don't you read the whole story.

I'm sure you don't appreciate paying customers in your computer store in Pittsburgh either. I'll be sure to let my friends in that area know.


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## adamofevil

I also want you all to know, in the e-mail I was given with download link here is a quote from the message:

"You will be given 3 attempts to successfully download your software product, and if you are unsuccessful, your download link will expire. If you experience problems with your download, and your link expires, you will be given information on requesting a new download link, however this can take some time - so please be careful and ensure you have enough space on your computer, as well as a good network connection before attempting your download."

Not surprising, I only attempted to download it once, the image was corrupted, and now the link is expired, less than 48 hours after the purchase.

Talk about burned.


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## JWThiers

adamofevil said:


> Sorry, but I don't think that is why there is no refunds. Even their own web site claims you are free to distribute the file as you please. It's not copyrighted. Try some other argument, because that one is invalid.


You may be free to distribute what you bought, you paid for it. now you want a different product in exchange for it. meaning you have to give it back, including all copies you made. Its not 2 for the price of 1. If you buy a shirt as a present for someone, and its the wrong size, to exchange the wrong size for the right size you need the receipt and the item you are exchanging to get the new one. Or do you expect walmart to just give you the right size and you can keep the wrong sized one. If you can I want to go to that store I could make a fortune selling the wrong sized stuff at a flea market. Its the same concept except you cant return the bits.


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## ocntscha

adamofevil said:


> What do you all think about this?


I think you made a mistake. I think if PTVupgrade doesn't want to fix your mistake thats their prerogative. Just as it is your prerogative to come on here and tell your story to their potential customer base.

The very first responder on here to your original post pointed out a solution. You can use that very CD you have got to achieve very the same goal you wanted, its just going to entail an extra step is all. Use the CD on your 250Gig drive. You'll end up with version 4.0.1 of the Tivo software on the drive and only 137Gig of it being used. Put the drive in your Tivo. On your very first connection to the Tivo mothership the drive will get updated to the latest Tivo software (7.2.something) and so will instantly become capable of using more than the first 137Gb of a drive. Pull the drive back out. Put in your PC at for example secondary IDE channel master postition (aka /dev/hdc) Boot off the PTVupgrade CD, at the prompt type mfsadd -x /dev/hdc Put the drive back in the Tivo, it'll be using all 250Gig now.


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## JWThiers

adamofevil said:


> I also want you all to know, in the e-mail I was given with download link here is a quote from the message:
> 
> "You will be given 3 attempts to successfully download your software product, and if you are unsuccessful, your download link will expire. If you experience problems with your download, and your link expires, you will be given information on requesting a new download link, however this can take some time - so please be careful and ensure you have enough space on your computer, as well as a good network connection before attempting your download."
> 
> Not surprising, I only attempted to download it once, the image was corrupted, and now the link is expired, less than 48 hours after the purchase.
> 
> Talk about burned.


Now if you didn't get the download you are talking a different ball of wax, but have you tried to contact them and tell them you didn't get a good copy. All you have been whining about here is "I bought the wrong one and I think I should get the right one for free because I didn't know that "All sales are final and no refunds ment me too.sniff." Want some cheese with that Whine?


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## adamofevil

JWThiers said:


> You may be free to distribute what you bought, you paid for it. now you want a different product in exchange for it. meaning you have to give it back, including all copies you made. Its not 2 for the price of 1. If you buy a shirt as a present for someone, and its the wrong size, to exchange the wrong size for the right size you need the receipt and the item you are exchanging to get the new one. Or do you expect walmart to just give you the right size and you can keep the wrong sized one. If you can I want to go to that store I could make a fortune selling the wrong sized stuff at a flea market. Its the same concept except you cant return the bits.


Not quite. I think a better analogy would be you sold someone a shirt with a hole in it, knowing there was a hole in it, but they didn't realize it when they purchased it. Now they come back to exchange it for one without a hole and you refuse because "all sales are final". Where I come from, there are many words to describe this type of business. One of them is fraud.

I didnt want a different product. I wanted the latest version of the exact same product. The only difference between the 2 versions is that the old one doesn't support large hard drives. To me, that's a bug. And so far nobody has come here with a legitimate reason why anyone would actually want the older version.

When was the last time you had to pay for a patch to software you legitimately paid for and downloaded, the same day you ordered it?


----------



## Justin

adamofevil said:


> Yeah, I made a mistake, <snip>
> 
> What do you all think about this?


I think the part of your quote that I included sums it up.

1) You made the mistake, just like we all have at different points of our lives. I WISH that some of the mistakes that I've made in my life only cost $30!

2) Your mistake isn't really a mistake.....you just need to take a SINGLE extra step. Again pretty cheap mistake.

3) Bashing a supplier, that has helped many of the forum members, will not take you very far. Many members have good memories, and who wants to help somebody that will blame others for thier own mistakes. (I wouldn't)

4) Tivo's are supposed to be fun. This forum is supposed to be fun. Have fun. Your Fix is is already in this thread. Finish it, and then try 'The Zipper'. (Which has a value of at least $100 per tivo.....but you can have it for free....so your UP $70.)

Take Care, and KEEP IT FUN!

Justin


----------



## adamofevil

Justin said:


> Bashing a supplier, that has helped many of the forum members, will not take you very far. Many members have good memories, and who wants to help somebody that will blame others for thier own mistakes. (I wouldn't)


That's like saying if your friend murdered someone in cold blood, it's alright because he's been a good boy all his life and you have great memories of him.

I didn't BLAME anyone for my mistake. Yes I did say that their web site was somewhat misleading, but I did not say it was NOT my mistake. I am simply stating my opinion about this company, which is perfectly legitimate.

I don't really care what anyone thinks of me on this forum, I am not selling services to anyone here. I didn't come here asking for help, I came asking for opinions, and quite surprised at some of the responses.... some people don't even bother reading what this is all about before putting in their two cents or flaming me. Though I do appreciate the tips and the free Zipper (whatever that is; I haven't been pointed to where to get it yet).

Anyway, I'm over it. I just think it's really screwed up that this company sells old version and new version of the same Tivo software when the only difference as far as I can tell is the ability to use large hard drives. What is the point of this????


----------



## JWThiers

adamofevil said:


> Not quite. I think a better analogy would be you sold someone a shirt with a hole in it, now they come back and you refuse to exchange it for one without a hole, or even bust out a sewing kit to help them fix the hole. Like you would even want the shirt with the hole in it back. Chances are you'd throw it in the garbage and give them a new shirt. If not, then you have some really warped ethics.


Not that it matters even if the shirt has a whole in it you have to return it to get the new one. As for a fix to install it and wait for it to upgrade. Heck it is self repairing no effort on you part. And yes the store wants the shirt with a hole in it or should as proof that some whiner isn't trying to rip them off 


adamofevil said:


> I didnt want a different product. I wanted the latest version of the exact same product. The only difference between the 2 versions is that the old one doesn't support large hard drives. To me, that's a bug. And so far nobody has come here with a legitimate reason why anyone would actually want the older version.
> 
> When was the last time you had to pay for a patch to software you legitimately paid for and downloaded, the same day you ordered it?


Not a bug it was a limitation of the OS that was written. When the kernel was written (1991) a large HD was 40 MB (yes MB) and it supported 137 GB If it was a bug fix you would just have gotten a different dot number on the rev. I suppose it a bug that it doesn't support 12th generation fiber optic computers using hot air to run them.

As to a reason why anyone would use an older version. MOST of us here use the latest rev, but there are some who are NOT using it for whatever their reason. and they probably wouldn't give you the time of day let alone the reason they are using older software. if you want do a search for comparison 6.2 and 4.x, usually compatability or stability or bloatware are common reasons given.



adamofevil said:


> That's like saying if your friend murdered someone in cold blood, it's alright because he's been a good boy all his life and you have great memories of him.
> 
> I didn't BLAME anyone for my mistake. Yes I did say that their web site was somewhat misleading, but I did not say it was NOT my mistake. I am simply stating my opinion about this company, which is perfectly legitimate.


Meaning you didn't read carefully and if $30 matteres as much to you as it appears you should have been more careful


----------



## Justin

adamofevil said:


> Anyway, I'm over it. I just think it's really screwed up that this company sells old version and new version of the same Tivo software when the only difference as far as I can tell is the ability to use large hard drives. What is the point of this????


Honestly, there are reasons, based on what version people had when they started hacking. Think about it, why would PTV have a extra choice, if NOBODY wanted it........Just one more thing for them to keep track of.

I'm glad your over it. Really...do a search for Zipper in this sub-forum. You won't be disappointed. Hobbies should be fun. 

Justin


----------



## Adam1115

adamofevil said:


> That's like saying if your friend murdered someone in cold blood, it's alright because he's been a good boy all his life and you have great memories of him.


WOW.

Well, now I'm sure you've convinced everyone.... Good one, accuse PTVUpgrades of being MURDERERS!! 

Anyway, what is the problem here? I mean I can see the deal if your HD failed and you needed a new image, but it takes all of what, about 10 minutes to make a backup image of your 7.2.2 TiVo? Why on earth do you need a PTV Images if you have a working TiVo???


----------



## adamofevil

JWThiers:

There is a bit of a difference between a shirt and a piece of software that is not even copyrighted. 

Repeat after me.

InstantCake is free.

The download (or bandwidth) is what is costing money, not the software.

They offer 3 attempts at downloading.

I only attempted to downloaded it once. 

They also charge an extra $10.00 for the older version, because the file is so "large". So I should have LOTS of spare bandwidth in my purchase.

That leaves me with plenty of bandwidth left in my payment to have downloaded the latest version, which is also not copyrighted, and is also free for distribution, had they been nice people, but they chose not to be, just like you if you really did sell shirts.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

You'd never catch me paying to download or otherwise pay anyone to upgrade a TiVo. It's pretty damn easy to do and images are nearly that easy to get.


----------



## BillyBob_jcv




----------



## Billy66

Are you an only child Adam? You seem like it. You did something incorrectly and you at least kind of admit that, but the rest of your time is spent ranting and whining that PTV Upgrade isn't doing what you want post sale.

An initial complaint, ok. Endless rants about a situation that was your fault is making you look like a baby. What are you going to do next hold your breath?

Really, Lou could have given you a break. His business decision is not to do that, and it's for understandable reasons. now, get over it, grow up and just do it correctly next time.

And, we'll help you. So let's move this conversation from PTV upgrade to what you really want. An upgraded TiVo. How can the free assistance of this board make up for your perceived loss? We are here to do just that.


----------



## David Platt

adamofevil said:


> Give money, paid, whatever dude. Rather than being a grammar nazi why don't you read the whole story.
> 
> I'm sure you don't appreciate paying customers in your computer store in Pittsburgh either. I'll be sure to let my friends in that area know.


You don't like what I said, so you threaten my livelilhood. Nice. If you're so quick to go to that place in this thread, I can only imagine what your inteaction with Lou was like.

I absolutely appreciate my customers. I go above and beyond to make sure my customers are happy with the service I provide. Occasionally, people in my line of work get customers who think that since you fix their computer once, you are obligated to answer any questions they have about computers free of charge for life. You have to establish policies and draw lines somewhere, and Lou has chosen to draw his in his clearly spelled out policies.

I'm absolutely not being a grammar nazi, and I have read the entire thread. You seem to think that Lou owes you something beyond the product you have bought and paid for, even though his policies are clearly spelled out on his website before you place the order. You're trying to put the onus of your mistake on to him and acting like it's his responsibility to fix, which is not right.


----------



## Gunnyman

It's been said:
1) you made the mistake ignored the UP FRONT warnings before you downloaded.
2) a downloaded piece of software has the exact same restrictions on it an opened retail boxed one does. No returns.
3) Jamie has provided you with a solution that does work.
4) There are thousands of happy ptvupgrade.com customers some of whom probably downloaded the wrong version themselves, yet we don't seem to have a thread like this pop up very often.
5) Time to be a man, learn from your mistake and shut up.


----------



## Gunnyman

Justin said:


> SNIPPED
> 
> 4) Tivo's are supposed to be fun. This forum is supposed to be fun. Have fun. Your Fix is is already in this thread. Finish it, and then try 'The Zipper'. (Which has a value of at least $100 per tivo.....but you can have it for free....so your UP $70.)


Thank GOD the zipper doesn't work with his Tivo. He may not like the free support I give and bad mouth me on some message boad someplace.


----------



## JWThiers

adamofevil said:


> JWThiers:
> 
> There is a bit of a difference between a shirt and a piece of software that is not even copyrighted.
> 
> Repeat after me.
> 
> InstantCake is free.
> 
> The download (or bandwidth) is what is costing money, not the software.
> 
> They offer 3 attempts at downloading.
> 
> I only attempted to downloaded it once.
> 
> They also charge an extra $10.00 for the older version, because the file is so "large". So I should have LOTS of spare bandwidth in my purchase.
> 
> That leaves me with plenty of bandwidth left in my payment to have downloaded the latest version, which is also not copyrighted, and is also free for distribution, had they been nice people, but they chose not to be, just like you if you really did sell shirts.


You obviously know nothing about copyright, nor how business works.
Never argue with an idiot, people might not know the difference.


----------



## bengalfreak

adamofevil said:


> Anyway, I'm over it. I just think it's really screwed up that this company sells old version and new version of the same Tivo software when the only difference as far as I can tell is the ability to use large hard drives. What is the point of this????


Again, there is a reason for selling the old version of software. For example, software version 4.01b was never released for DTivos. However, a DTivo user can use that version of the software from a standalone Tivo in order to access the wireless configuration page in the Network setup section of the menus so that a wireless nic will work with a Dtivo.

That's just one reason why an older software version is still available. Without PTV, it would be more complex for the Tivo hacking community to accomplish their goals. I understand that you are ticked off. But you should be ticked at yourself and not at PTV.


----------



## airjrdn

Is this the one you're in need of? - instantcake-sirs-6.2-01-2-381.iso

FYI, that's:

ICAKE-S2DT-62
InstantCake for Series2 DirecTiVo Units (6.2)


----------



## adamofevil

JWThiers said:


> You obviously know nothing about copyright, nor how business works.


I would say it's the other way around, since in every response you change your story. Mine still remains the same throughout.



Gunnyman said:


> Thank GOD the zipper doesn't work with his Tivo. He may not like the free support I give and bad mouth me on some message boad someplace.


I'm really not interested in hacking my Tivo. I just want to be able to restore it with a new hard drive so that I don't have to throw it out; without needing to have knowledge of hacking or linux, or swapping hard drives back and forth. It's quite clear that PTV doesn't support InstantCake. I never asked for InstantCake support.



David Platt said:


> If you're so quick to go to that place in this thread, I can only imagine what your inteaction with Lou was like. You seem to think that Lou owes you something beyond the product you have bought and paid for, even though his policies are clearly spelled out on his website before you place the order.


I never had any interaction with Lou. I had 2 e-mails with his staff after making my purchase. They were short and to the point. Nothing out of the ordinary. And I wasn't asking for free support, or any support at all (on the actual product) nor was I asking for lifetime support. So keep making things up in your mind that don't exist. I don't think Lou owes me anything. I am just letting everyone know that Lou doesn't care, period.



BengalFreak said:


> Again, there is a reason for selling the old version of software. For example, software version 4.01b was never released for DTivos. However, a DTivo user can use that version of the software from a standalone Tivo in order to access the wireless configuration page in the Network setup section of the menus so that a wireless nic will work with a Dtivo.


Can't they use the 7.1 version to do the same thing?



Billy66 said:


> Are you an only child Adam? You seem like it. You did something incorrectly and you at least kind of admit that, but the rest of your time is spent ranting and whining that PTV Upgrade isn't doing what you want post sale.


Not quite Billy. The rest of my time is spent debating with people about why they think PTV was justified for denying me download of the latest version. Whether you perceive it to be something different is fine. Whether I am an only child (which I am not) has no bearing on this conversation. Are you trying to be a psychiatrist now? Please don't. I highly doubt doctors would be lurking in a hackers forum. Doctors make enough money to buy hacked Tivos without having to mess with the insides themselves.



BULLY66 said:


> An initial complaint, ok. Endless rants about a situation that was your fault is making you look like a baby. What are you going to do next hold your breath?


I'm not the type of person that when you call me a name or make up a story that doesn't exist on my behalf, that I'm going to sit back and take it. Maybe you are, since you feel it is necessary to call me names and rank on me simply because I have an opinion about something. This clearly indicates what type of person you are; a bully. I'm sure you don't have many RL friends.



Billy66 said:


> Really, Lou could have given you a break. His business decision is not to do that, and it's for understandable reasons. now, get over it, grow up and just do it correctly next time.


I still haven't been convinced of these "understandable" reasons... or the one that applies to my situation.



Adam1115 said:


> Anyway, what is the problem here? I mean I can see the deal if your HD failed and you needed a new image, but it takes all of what, about 10 minutes to make a backup image of your 7.2.2 TiVo? Why on earth do you need a PTV Images if you have a working TiVo???


The reason I bought instantcake is because my wifes Tivo hard drive failed. So she has nothing now. As previously noted, the image I did download was corrupted, and my download link expired quickly after. I can not get in touch with the company nor do they respond to my e-mails. So I have nothing now other than a TIVO image someone allowed me to download from their FTP, but I have no idea how to use it. The whole point of paying for InstantCake was so that I can get my Tivo working without hacking it and without knowing how to use Linux, and without having to spend hours+ learning how to do it. Every second my pregnant wife is without her Tivo, is torturous for the both of us!


----------



## Gunnyman

has the fact that you were warned up front not sunk in?
How about the fact that the software you bought will work fine if you follow Jamie's advice?


----------



## adamofevil

Gunnyman said:


> has the fact that you were warned up front not sunk in?
> How about the fact that the software you bought will work fine if you follow Jamie's advice?


The fact that I dont have any software makes that kind of difficult. The fact that PTV doesn't offer any type of checksum to verify the RAW ISO you paid for and downloaded, just plain stinks. If you look at their "official support" thread on their supposed support forum, you'll see myriad of complaints about corrupted ISO's, for which PTV quickly blames the persons internet connection or PC knowledge, which is ridiculous. End users have no control of the myriad of routers involved in between ISPs. A ZIP/RAR file with a recovery record of 1-2% would solve this problem.... but I wouldn't expect PTV to go "out of their way" to spend 10 minutes to correct this problem. It's obvious corrupted downloads is a large part of their fraudulent business practices.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Billy66 said:


> Are you an only child Adam? You seem like it. You did something incorrectly and you at least kind of admit that, but the rest of your time is spent ranting and whining that PTV Upgrade isn't doing what you want post sale.
> 
> An initial complaint, ok. Endless rants about a situation that was your fault is making you look like a baby. What are you going to do next hold your breath?
> 
> Really, Lou could have given you a break. His business decision is not to do that, and it's for understandable reasons. now, get over it, grow up and just do it correctly next time.
> 
> And, we'll help you. So let's move this conversation from PTV upgrade to what you really want. An upgraded TiVo. How can the free assistance of this board make up for your perceived loss? We are here to do just that.


Which I already did. These upgrades are easy. Do it yourself without their product at all.


----------



## Adam1115

adamofevil said:


> Can't they use the 7.1 version to do the same thing?


Nope. Only 4.01b. That's why it's still in use.



> The reason I bought instantcake is because my wifes Tivo hard drive failed. So she has nothing now. As previously noted, the image I did download was corrupted, and my download link expired quickly after. I can not get in touch with the company nor do they respond to my e-mails. So I have nothing now other than a TIVO image someone allowed me to download from their FTP, but I have no idea how to use it. The whole point of paying for InstantCake was so that I can get my Tivo working without hacking it and without knowing how to use Linux, and without having to spend hours+ learning how to do it. Every second my pregnant wife is without her Tivo, is torturous for the both of us!


Well, at this point, they aren't going to do anything, so there's not much point in arguing about it. Most people here seem to disagree with you.. So if your not willing to learn anything abou Linux to fix this on your own (as it's been said, you could restore the 4.01b image to the drive without expanding it, let it take the 7.2 upgrade and then expand the drive..), I would purchase the correct image from Instant Cake if I were you.


----------



## BillyBob_jcv




----------



## StanSimmons

Adam,

Why are you still beating this dead horse? You got a link to a v7.1 image from me yesterday at lunch.

btw, the v7.1 image will upgrade to the latest release during normal daily calls, as would the v4 image that you got from Lou.

I have found Lou to be a honorable business man and have bought several products from him, including an image for one of my TiVo's.


----------



## kennet6565

Stan, I totally agree with you. I have used Lou's products to up date two Series 1's. 4 Series 2's. amd 6 HiDef Tivo's. After I bout the update for the HR10-250 he cam out with a new version which allowed 2 400gb drives. Did I ask for a free update?? Nope, spent anothe $20 and happy to do it. For me PTVUpgrades is a wonderful product that works perfectly. Thanks Lou for your work.


----------



## JWThiers

What part of "No Redunds or Exchanges" didn't you understand?

Since you know what refunds are and what exchanges are and you seem to understand "or"
What part of NO don't you understand?


----------



## Turtleboy

Let's recap:

1. You wanted to buy some software.
2. You paid for said software.
3. You downloaded the software.
4. The software is now on your computer, free for you to keep, transfer to anyone else, use as much as you want, etc.
5. You realized that you downloaded the wrong thing
6. You asked the vendor if you can download the right thing for free, even though the vendor doesn't know you from Adam (ha ha), and has no way of knowing whether or not you kept the software.

Is this right?


----------



## ThreeSoFar

Now who's beating a dead horse, guys?


----------



## greg_burns

Turtleboy said:


> Let's recap:
> 
> 1. You wanted to buy some software.
> 2. You paid for said software.
> 3. You downloaded the software.
> 4. The software is now on your computer, free for you to keep, transfer to anyone else, use as much as you want, etc.
> 5. You realized that you downloaded the wrong thing
> 6. You asked the vendor if you can download the right thing for free, even though the vendor doesn't know you from Adam (ha ha), and has no way of knowing whether or not you kept the software.
> 
> Is this right?


If I followed what he said correctly; 3 & 4 didn't happen.



adamofevil said:


> Not surprising, I only attempted to download it once, the image was corrupted, and now the link is expired, less than 48 hours after the purchase.





adamofevil said:


> The fact that I dont have any software makes that kind of difficult. The fact that PTV doesn't offer any type of checksum to verify the RAW ISO you paid for and downloaded, just plain stinks.


----------



## Gunnyman

in post 1 our dear OP admits to downloading the wrong thing. Somewhere along the line the story changed.


----------



## willardcpa

Turtleboy said:


> Let's recap:
> 
> 1. You wanted to buy some software.
> 2. You paid for said software.
> 3. You downloaded the software.
> 4. The software is now on your computer, free for you to keep, transfer to anyone else, use as much as you want, etc.
> 5. You realized that you downloaded the wrong thing
> 6. You asked the vendor if you can download the right thing for free, even though the vendor doesn't know you from Adam (ha ha), and has no way of knowing whether or not you kept the software.
> 
> Is this right?


Why are you bringing up all that garbage, who do you think you are a lawyer???  
Ohhh, hold it. Nevermind.


----------



## willardcpa

JWThiers said:


> .....Never argue with an idiot,.....


And this thread is a perfect example as to why one should always follow that advice.


----------



## JWThiers

willardcpa said:


> And this thread is a perfect example as to why one should always follow that advice.


Unfortunately its an occupational hazzard, I'm in Quality Assurance so I get paid to argue with people as part of my job.


----------



## shortkud

The real question here is why are we still giving PTVupgrade money... We should have already been re-distrubting the images to our friends as we are allowed to. I sure as hell know none of my friends have bought anything from PTVupgrade, i re-distrubted it to all of my friends. Why havent we dont that here....I have at least 5 images from them lets start uploading our images.weeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## Gunnyman

we don't do that here, because Lou gives this site $$ for ads. It wouldn't be nice.
Sheesh


----------



## shortkud

But its allowed...its not like its copyright infringment. So if i posted images for download the removal would be just because they give money? What if i donated some cash 

*pulls gunnys leg*


----------



## Gunnyman

Tivo may not be happy either.
PTV is authorized to do what they do.


----------



## greg_burns

Who built the nice interface around the image? You know, the "bake" part of instantcake. That has gotta be worth $20. Surely, they should be compensated.


----------



## adamofevil

Gunnyman said:


> in post 1 our dear OP admits to downloading the wrong thing. Somewhere along the line the story changed.


You're right, I did download it. The image was corrupted and unusable. My story didn't change.


----------



## adamofevil

greg_burns said:


> Who built the nice interface around the image? You know, the "bake" part of instantcake. That has gotta be worth $20. Surely, they should be compensated.


They chose not to be compensated for that. Therefore the image is free for distribution.


----------



## greg_burns

adamofevil said:


> They chose not to be compensated for that. Therefore the image is free for distribution.


I would think it is more along the lines that it is not legal for them to charge to distribute the Tivo OS...

I still think they should be compensated for the slick plug-n-play nature of it.


----------



## Philly Bill

What a riot. 

JamiP posted in the very next post how to correct the error you made. He did it in about 5 sentences. That should have been the end of the thread...

Except for the part where you posted: 'Thanks JamieP! You ROCK!!!!'









I'm not sure how this thread got to be 3 pages long. But I sure have enjoyed reading it!


----------



## lew

Most vendors will work with a customer that makes an error. Airlines even let you change non-refundable airline tickets if you call them, sometimes within 24 hours.

There is a difference between processing a refund, letting a customer use the claim of a mistake to get more than they paid for and just giving a customer the benefit of the doubt and giving them the opportunity to D/L the correct software.


----------



## swizzlest

club sandwiches are good


----------



## Gunnyman

I like Reubens myself


----------



## SeanC

mmmmmm just had a tuna melt on texas toast


----------



## willardcpa

lew said:


> Most vendors will work with a customer that makes an error. Airlines even let you change non-refundable airline tickets if you call them, sometimes within 24 hours......


lews got a valid point. They should do it just like the airlines, charge him $100 for the change and then let him have the other software.


----------



## adamofevil

greg_burns said:


> I would think it is more along the lines that it is not legal for them to charge to distribute the Tivo OS...


Yet, technically, they do. Regardless of what they claim they are doing. They are charging money, then distributing the Tivo OS.



lew said:


> Most vendors will work with a customer that makes an error. Airlines even let you change non-refundable airline tickets if you call them, sometimes within 24 hours.
> 
> There is a difference between processing a refund, letting a customer use the claim of a mistake to get more than they paid for and just giving a customer the benefit of the doubt and giving them the opportunity to D/L the correct software.


Cheers to that. Unfortunately, the majority of customers are stuck up, selfish, conceited, liars and cheats (see most responses to this thread). That makes it difficult for vendors to weed out the honest people like us, so we end up getting the short end of the stick.



Philly Bill said:


> I'm not sure how this thread got to be 3 pages long. But I sure have enjoyed reading it!


Nice to be a liar, isn't it? You obviously didn't read it, or you would know that JamieP's 5 sentence solution won't work for me.


----------



## gamo62

JWThiers said:


> And how many copies of the ISO did you make, Can you prove it. The reason there are no refunds on downloaded software is because there is no way to prove you have deleted it. I am not accusing you but a good way to get both iso's would be to claim you got the wrong one and get a replacement. That is the downfall when you are dealing with bits and not a physical item. Sounds a lot like MP3's and the RIAA (god I never thought I would take their side). PTV provided you with a product that once it leaves them their server is no way of knowing what is done to it. If you didn't get the download or your computer crashed the next day and you hadn't burned the CD yet you might have a gripe and I am sure that you would get a more sympathetic ear , but I got the wrong one... Sorry to hear it, do you want to buy the correct one have at it, or just load it wait for it to upgrade and make an image of that. Its the long way around but hey it was your bad not theirs. Now learn from your mistake and move on.


I have the ISO for the SD-DVR120. PM me and I can save you $20. Since I'm not charging I'll just give it away. Thanks.


----------



## gamo62

adamofevil said:


> You're right, I did download it. The image was corrupted and unusable. My story didn't change.


I have an uncorrupt ISO for the SD-DVR120. PM me and I will send it to you free of charge.


----------



## adamofevil

gamo62 said:


> I have an uncorrupt ISO for the SD-DVR120. PM me and I will send it to you free of charge.


I appreciate that Gamo62, that is very nice of you, but my Tivo is a model 24004A. I dont think that image will work for mine. In the mean time, I've gotten the correct Tivo image from someone now, I just have to find the time to mess with the linux programs.


----------



## lajohn27

Where do I send my $5 for the sheer entertainment value I have received from this thread?

J


----------



## Gunnyman

I guess anywhere but ptvupgrade.com


----------



## airjrdn

I told him what one I had, but he never responded.

Given what's transpired in this (and another) thread, I was going to give him access to it if he apologized in both threads for ranting so damn much.

That's what I make my 2yr old and 3yr old do anyway.


----------



## adamofevil

airjrdn said:


> I told him what one I had, but he never responded.


More lies.


----------



## airjrdn

adamofevil said:


> More lies.


Still think so cowboy?


----------



## ttodd1

/opens new box of goobers/

now getting to the good part....


----------



## stivovance

adamofevil said:


> You're right, I did download it. The image was corrupted and unusable. My story didn't change.


and at no time have you asked to have the downlad re-enabled, as stated in the instructions, in the email you received when you downloaded the software.


----------



## vertigo235

What a ripoff for something that is free to distribute. If you get 3 downloads to get it right, you should at least get a change to download the other image, since there is no COST for the actual software.

Why do we not have all these images on BitTorrent somewhere allready?


----------



## Bradc314

I bought a replacement harddrive from PTV when my dad's TiVo died.

I couldn't have been happier with the service and product I paid for.


----------



## rbautch

vertigo235 said:


> What a ripoff for something that is free to distribute. If you get 3 downloads to get it right, you should at least get a change to download the other image, since there is no COST for the actual software.
> 
> Why do we not have all these images on BitTorrent somewhere allready?


 It's not free to distribute. It's copyrighted software owned by Tivo.


----------



## greg_burns

rbautch said:


> It's not free to distribute. It's copyrighted software owned by Tivo.


But how does the GNU license play into this? 

http://www.tivo.com/linux/linux.asp

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3930773&&#post3930773


----------



## Gunnyman

tivo's using an open source kernel as well as several open source tools.
The tivo App itself is NOT open source as far as I know.


----------



## cheer

Correct. The "cake" part of InstantCake is evidently GPL, as is the open-source part of the Tivo software itself. But tivoapp, etc., aren't open source, have never been posted on tivo.com, and as far as I am aware, are not freely distributable.

I'd have to ask ptvupgrade.com to be sure, but so far as I am aware they're the only ones allowed to distribute Tivo images.

--chris


----------



## Redux

Is that JM J. Bullock one terrific actor, or what.


----------



## Gunnyman

yeah but Jonathan Elias is better singer.


----------



## mr.unnatural

Wow, and I thought some of the flame threads at DDB were a big waste of bandwidth but this one definitely "takes the cake" (pun intended). I'm amazed that someone that only has 20 posts in this forum (18 of which are in this thread alone) can create such havoc and discontent. Ironically, it tends to be the newbies that gripe the loudest because they simply have no clue. Just know that a little humility goes a long way to gaining respect.

The OP obviously didn't bother to research which image he needed nor did he bother to read any of the disclaimers posted on the PTV website prior to making his purchase. Stupidity rarely garners sympathy here or anywhere else. You screwed up and now you're whining about it. You've been told several times how to work around this yet you still insist on complaining and taking up space in these forums. Grow up and get on with your life.

FYI - the InstantCake utility supplied with the image is freeware and may be distributed as you like. The Tivo image included in the download is copyrighted and may NOT be freely distributed.


----------



## lajohn27

And the OP used the word NAZI before post #27 .. which is the fastest time to GODWIN's law EVER .. that I've seen.

J


----------



## Yog-Sothoth

Speaking of bad movies, has anyone seen _Basic Instinct 2_? I'm glad I only paid $5 to see it.


----------



## vertigo235

Yog-Sothoth said:


> Speaking of bad movies, has anyone seen _Basic Instinct 2_? I'm glad I only paid $5 to see it.


I'm proud to say that I havn't paid anything and will not pay anything to see that one!


----------



## lew

willardcpa said:


> lews got a valid point. They should do it just like the airlines, charge him $100 for the change and then let him have the other software.


*That wasn't my point.* Call the airline immediately, or at least within 24 hours, after you make a mistake and they'll usually let you correct it or cancel your reservation, *without a penalty or change fee.*

Most business work with customers that *make a mistake even if their terms and conditions don't require it.*


----------



## JWThiers

lew said:


> *That wasn't my point.* Call the airline immediately, or at least within 24 hours, after you make a mistake and they'll usually let you correct it or cancel your reservation, *without a penalty or change fee.*
> 
> Most business work with customers that *make a mistake even if their terms and conditions don't require it.*


The major difference is the OP received something for what he paid for (instant delivery) with an airline reservation no actual goods or services changed hands. If the OP had NOT downloaded the iso it would be a different story, but he attempted at least once, on the merchants side there is no way to know for sure if that DL was successful or not, and if you could verify there is no way to assure that he didn't make a copy to keep or give away. ANY return or exchange program that I am aware of requires that the item be returned. In the case of software returned unopened (at least to get a full refund). This is because it is easy to copy EXACTLY what is on a disk and for you to keep a usable copy of the software. Not everything is free.

What all this boils down to is should a "business work with customers that *make a mistake even if their terms and conditions don't require it.*" If they do thats great, above and beyond what is required, but if they don't you should whine like a kid who had their candy taken away and expect the whole world to treat them special? You are given opportunities to reject the terms of the sale before you complete it, you have to acknowledge the policy before the sale is final, and we should feel sorry for this?... Sorry he didn't read the agreement he made, sorry he wasn't as careful as he could have been when ordering it, sure. Sorry he didn't get his way? No he got what he paid for.

He now claims he didn't get a good download for what he paid for I could see working with someone on that even it it goes beyond the limits a little, I don't know if he got that resolved or not.


----------



## lew

The fact that the OP may be whining and even "adjusting" his story to make him look good doesn't change the fact that most businesses work with customers that make a mistake. Buy a mac program for a PC. I'd be surprised if most stores won't let you exchange it for the PC version even if you opened it. OP was asking for a different instant-cake for the same model tivo. He wasn't looking for an extra copy.

Ptvupgrade is the same company that included programs prior to obtaining the author's permission.

edited to say it sure looks like the OP is spamming/trolling with his problems. The fact that he may be a PITA doesn't change my opinion that most companies work with customers that make a mistake.



JWThiers said:


> The major difference is the OP received something for what he paid for (instant delivery) with an airline reservation no actual goods or services changed hands. If the OP had NOT downloaded the iso it would be a different story, but he attempted at least once, on the merchants side there is no way to know for sure if that DL was successful or not, and if you could verify there is no way to assure that he didn't make a copy to keep or give away. ANY return or exchange program that I am aware of requires that the item be returned. In the case of software returned unopened (at least to get a full refund). This is because it is easy to copy EXACTLY what is on a disk and for you to keep a usable copy of the software. Not everything is free.
> 
> What all this boils down to is should a "business work with customers that *make a mistake even if their terms and conditions don't require it.*" If they do thats great, above and beyond what is required, but if they don't you should whine like a kid who had their candy taken away and expect the whole world to treat them special? You are given opportunities to reject the terms of the sale before you complete it, you have to acknowledge the policy before the sale is final, and we should feel sorry for this?... Sorry he didn't read the agreement he made, sorry he wasn't as careful as he could have been when ordering it, sure. Sorry he didn't get his way? No he got what he paid for.
> 
> He now claims he didn't get a good download for what he paid for I could see working with someone on that even it it goes beyond the limits a little, I don't know if he got that resolved or not.


----------



## StanSimmons

adamofevil said:


> I appreciate that Gamo62, that is very nice of you, but my Tivo is a model 24004A. I dont think that image will work for mine. In the mean time, I've gotten the correct Tivo image from someone now, I just have to find the time to mess with the linux programs.


There are very simple instructions available from weaknees.com in the link that I sent you for the v7.0 240040 image.


----------



## lew

Yog-Sothoth said:


> Speaking of bad movies, has anyone seen _Basic Instinct 2_? I'm glad I only paid $5 to see it.


I'm glad that I didn't spend 2 hours and $5 to see it. 

It doesn't even look like it'll be worth using a Netflix rental to get the uncut version.


----------



## Philly Bill

adamofevil said:


> Nice to be a liar, isn't it?


----------



## tivoupgrade

lew said:


> The fact that the OP may be whining and even "adjusting" his story to make him look good doesn't change the fact that most businesses work with customers that make a mistake. Buy a mac program for a PC. I'd be surprised if most stores won't let you exchange it for the PC version even if you opened it. OP was asking for a different instant-cake for the same model tivo. He wasn't looking for an extra copy.


We actually do work with folks in certain cases. However, not at the expense of other customers who are truly entitled to support. A rude or entitled request on a busy day is not going to be handled the same way as a polite one, on a slower day.

And a post like the one that started this thread: a troll, designed to hurt our business and fabricated to make it look like we were victimizing someone, is not a tactic that I am known to apply.



> Ptvupgrade is the same company that included programs prior to obtaining the author's permission.


If you are talking about non-GPL software, there was one case where that happened. When we found out about it (the fact that it was not GPL was overlooked) we had a discussion with the author who was quite reasonable, and we paid licensing fees and also bartered goods and services for it. We have also contracted to that same developer (as well as others) for additional projects. Beyond that, it is not a discussion for public consumption, but it should be known that we are always looking to partner, whenever possible.

Beyond that, I am not aware of any other transgressions - if there are, the rightful authors should contact me directly. (it might be worth nothing that we have a few competitors that violate our proprietary rights as well as those of others, and they do not apologize nor take accountability for it).

I really do appreciate the fact that most people appear to be in support of what we do and how we handle ourselves. I'm sorry to see that there are those, especially newcomers, who don't seem to appreciate role we've played in advancing the state of upgrading and making life easier for a lot of folks.

Also I'll point out that the funds from DIY products such as the ones being discussed here are used to defray the costs of forum sponsorships like this one. I certainly don't expect everyone at TCF to be a fan, but it would be nice to not see folks attempting to hurt or dissuade folks from using our services here.

I don't fundamentally disagree with what Lew said in his original post (I see that it was edited with some clarifications as this response was under construction).

Its a business decision to uphold or not uphold our policy. Having undergone significant criticism when I created the very first kits and services for TiVo's I continue to face that today, but not nearly as much since the market we chose to pursue has been validated by several competitors. Believe it or not, there are those that think that making things easier for people also creates a bit of a mess because there are people who attempt to take the easy way out, get in over their heads and then create trouble.

To a certain extent, this thread is a perfect example and vindication of that opinion. The last thing I want to do is reinforce bad behavior. I'd rather scare off folks not willing to be accountable, or convince them to purchase a supported product, such as a kit or professional installation so that they don't have to "think too hard..."

So, although the position we take here is not one that will sit well with everyone, I think that most everyone can respect that the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Lots of different ways to look at it, I guess.

I've learned more than a few things by reading everyone's responses here.

And for the record, I do like Reubens and Club Sandwiches. Also the occasional Monte Cristo is good...

Thanks,
Lou


----------



## JJBliss

mr.unnatural said:


> Wow, and I thought some of the flame threads at DDB were a big waste of bandwidth... <snip>


 



> Ironically, it tends to be the newbies that gripe the loudest because they simply have no clue. Just know that a little humility goes a long way to gaining respect.
> 
> The OP obviously didn't bother to research which image he needed nor did he bother to read any of the disclaimers posted on the PTV website prior to making his purchase. Stupidity rarely garners sympathy here or anywhere else.


Welcome to the DDB mindset.


----------



## willardcpa

tivoupgrade said:


> ....And for the record, I do like Reubens and Club Sandwiches. Also the occasional Monte Cristo is good...
> 
> Thanks,
> Lou


I could give a rats patootie what kind of sandwich you like.  
What I want to know is did you use that $5 I sent you for the disk to go and see Basic Instinct 2???


----------



## tivoupgrade

willardcpa said:


> I could give a rats patootie what kind of sandwich you like.
> What I want to know is did you use that $5 I sent you for the disk to go and see Basic Instinct 2???


Feh.

The $5 is much appreciated, but it has been spent on something much better. You'll hear more about it in a few months, guaranteed. ;-)


----------



## Markman07

tivoupgrade said:


> Feh.
> 
> The $5 is much appreciated, but it has been spent on something much better. You'll hear more about it in a few months, guaranteed. ;-)


OMG!!!! So YOU ARE the one buying TIVO!


----------



## Sparty99

I find this thread fascinating, if only because it's gone on for so long. In my experience, when you realize that a purchase has gone bad, you want to scream at someone. But in most cases, you realize one of two things: (1) these things happen sometimes, or (2) it wasn't that big a deal in the first place, and that you needed to get it off your chest.

Most of the time, yelling at the person who sold you the goods takes care of the issue, and you'll learn that it probably wasn't so much their fault anyway. In this case, you may want to scream and shout and yell to the high heavens that you were wronged, but sorry OP, this was your fault. Going to a forum that PTV Upgrade sponsors and using your first post to expose your own mistake to a group of people that are loyal to that vendor was pretty dumb. Having read this entire thread at once, I can see that some of your answers have changed and your nastiness has won you no friends on this board. I'm guessing you don't care.

I think many of us would have the same initial reaction you did - save for posting the rantings on a message board. By now, those thoughts would've subsided and you would realize that, hey, it's $30 I'm out, it's not the end of the world.

I've had a fair amount of experience with PTV Upgrade. They are very quick to answer questions that probably come off as very stupid to them. I think their DIY kits are a great resource to those of us that aren't comfortable with anything beyond swapping out hard drives. And my belief is that if they felt they were being treated appropriately (we can't just take retailers for granted), there would have been a better outcome for you.

Sorry for your luck, but it's something you brought on yourself.


----------



## greg_burns

On the subject of InstantCake... Why no 7.2.0 (or greater) images? Seems to me this would be a useful image to host for the broadband supported guided setup.

Hoping Lou is still lurking here.


----------



## tivoupgrade

greg_burns said:


> On the subject of InstantCake... Why no 7.2.0 (or greater) images? Seems to me this would be a useful image to host for the broadband supported guided setup.
> 
> Hoping Lou is still lurking here.


We are working on a number of new products, updates to existing ones, and some other things, as well. Its simply a question of resources and priorities...


----------



## RonB2

Not surprising, I only attempted to download it once, the image was corrupted, and now the link is expired, less than 48 hours after the purchase.

Talk about burned

----- Arrgh that's no good -



This guy should have been given all the products that were compatible with his DVR. He should also been made aware that a newer version than the one he was downloading was available. (In my opionion)


----------



## tivoupgrade

RonB2 said:


> Not surprising, I only attempted to download it once, the image was corrupted, and now the link is expired, less than 48 hours after the purchase.
> 
> Talk about burned
> 
> ----- Arrgh that's no good -
> 
> This guy should have been given all the products that were compatible with his DVR. He should also been made aware that a newer version than the one he was downloading was available. (In my opionion)


Well, you did read the instructions regarding having your link regenerated, yes? They are on the same page as the information that indicated that your link was expired.

FWIW, very few folks have problems with corrupted downloads. The #1 cause of a corrupted download is the use of a download manager or attempts to suspend/resume the download (this is also documented in the download instructions, so it should come as no surprise).

There have been many more accusations of corrupted downloads than are warranted; I've seen several posts from folks who've downloaded the image multiple times, only to find that the problem was related to their burning technique, and not the image at all.

So with all that said, if you are truly interested in re-downloading what you ordered, simply follow the instructions and you shouldn't have a problem.


----------



## tivoupgrade

RonB2 said:


> This guy should have been given all the products that were compatible with his DVR. He should also been made aware that a newer version than the one he was downloading was available. (In my opionion)


The 'newer' version was available and orderable from the same drop down menu the OP used to select the 'older' version. Both versions have their place and it was the OP who chose what version to order. We can't force feed folks anything more than the information we provide and ask them to review their transaction prior to completing their order.

We simply ask that people take the time to understand prior to placing the order. If you are not willing to do the small amount of reading that is required to make an educated decision, then DIY products are not for you.


----------



## ThreeSoFar

when will people learn...these sites are just making a quick buck off of something you could easily do yourselves.


----------



## tivoupgrade

ThreeSoFar said:


> when will people learn...these sites are just making a quick buck off of something you could easily do yourselves.


ThreeSoFar, you already stated your opinion to that effect in this thread several times already. I have nothing to say to folks like yourself other than consider setting up your own support thread to help folks who want to do it all by themselves, but are unwilling to read the instructions first.

You might learn a thing or two about what you consider easy, and what others consider difficult. What you are saying is demeaning to folks on both sides of the issue. (ie, you are devaluing the knowledge and skills of those who do understand, while making those who don't understand feel inadequate).


----------



## ThreeSoFar

tivoupgrade said:


> ThreeSoFar, you already stated your opinion to that effect in this thread several times already. I have nothing to say to folks like yourself other than consider setting up your own support thread to help folks who want to do it all by themselves, but are unwilling to read the instructions first.
> 
> You might learn a thing or two about what you consider easy, and what others consider difficult. What you are saying is demeaning to folks on both sides of the issue. (ie, you are devaluing the knowledge and skills of those who do understand, while making those who don't understand feel inadequate).


Did I? I say that in a lot of the threads I help people in.

The drop-in hard drive service you and others provide is easy. I'll give you that. I've done that for a lot of friends for nothing. For a few strangers for postage and a beer.

But this download an image for $20 bucks thing is a sham. If they can do the process of restoring that image, then they can backup their original drive when they get it and use that when the time comes to upgrade or replace the drive, and in both cases they can get a lot of help here.


----------



## RonB2

I was just being sympathetic for the guy that had the broken downloads. The main jist of the post was the poor OP that got the out-dated version of the code. 


Both versions have their place and it was the "OP" who chose what version to order. 

-- this seems to be a case where the "OP" got the wrong version by accident. Anytime an accident happens it's just good customer service to try to understand what went wrong and learn from it. This guy is one unhappy customer. If it happened to him, it could happen to others. Seems like there's an oportunity to learn from this (on both ends) and that changes could be made on your end in the website to try to reduce the chances for another bad situation. I'm so new to the whole PVR upgrade program that I think my opinion is probably not worth much, but I do know about customer satisfaction. It's puzzles me why anyone would want the "old" version of code and that the percentage of people who might want this would be small. (like he really should have to work hard to get the old version,
with at least 20 pop-ups saying "are you sure this is wise)? lol 

Have a nice day/night


----------



## Redux

We have progressed through a period of corporate evolution wherin employees were defined as the enemy. Currently we are defining customers as the enemy.

PTV is a pioneer. A product with no cost, free as the air. A few pennies per unit of delivery costs (this expense to be eliminated in next phase of the evolution). Close to zero expense associated with the post-sale customer.

PTV is close to the perfect corporate model.


----------



## cheer

Here's how I see things.

First, a quick perusal of ptvupgrade.com's site makes it pretty clear (to me, anyway) that the real thrust of their business is doing/selling the upgrades -- hard drive kits, brackets, and so on. IMHO that's a legitimate service -- not everyone is comfortable with opening up their box and doing the upgrade themselves, and if someone wants to pay Lou to do it and is OK with Lou's pricing, then it's all good.

ptvupgrade.com also sells the DIY products -- InstantCake, ptvnet, the Enhanced Boot CD, and so forth -- and even has at least one freebie (the un-Enhanced boot CD). Now, I should preface this by saying that I'm definitely in the DIY camp (as anyone who frequents ddb can tell you). One of my passions for Tivo has been a result of all the cool things I can do with little or no out-of-pocket cost. Having said that, I have bought InstantCake from Lou -- back before the 6.2 upgrade, a popular thing to do to DTivos was to get 4.01b running on them, and you need an image to do that. The only legal source for such an image is (as far as I know) ptvupgrade.com. Plus, the Enhanced LBA48 boot CD is a terrific tool.

The web site makes it clear that these downloadable products are for the do-it-yourself'er. From that I infer that one should make sure one knows what one is doing before purchasing.

I don't have any issues with Lou's business model. If the price was egregious, the market would punish him. As he continues to sell them, I can only assume that the market has decided his prices aren't out of reason. Personally, it's worth it to me to lay out $20 to have a clean image handy in case I hose things up.

My $0.02.

--chris


----------



## PortlandPaw

I've dealt with Lou in the past and in addition to Reubens and Monte Cristos, we discussed Italian Beef and Maine lobster.

Lou approached me about using hackman in his distros and I agreed because although it would be nice to make money from my hobby, I'd rather see others benefit from my efforts and if he makes a few bucks in the effort, more power to him. That's basic economics and a choice I made. Lou didn't make it for me and was very upfront about his business.

I, too, suffer from people who refuse to RTFM or whatever it is in front of them that they should be paying attention to. I, like Lou, have taken every pain to alert people to these notices. The difference, of course, is that I can fall back on the defense of "you get what you pay for." Lou, as a businessman, has to deal with the exchange of money. And it is _his_ business.

As for charging for that that is already "out there," if it's not in your hands, it's not really "out there," is it? And if you don't know enough to make a backup before you trash your TiVo, is that Lou's fault? To the contrary, if I were in that position, I'd be on my knees thanking Lou for that service. I know I could "beg" an image from someone, but there are the issues of pride and convenience to consider as well.

Bottom Line: Lou, you rock. adamofevil, get a life, quit your libelous rantings, and stop living up to your name


----------



## willardcpa

tivoupgrade said:


> We are working on a number of new products, updates to existing ones, and some other things, as well. Its simply a question of resources and priorities...


"resources and priorities". Hell, we can help you with that.  
As to recources, go ahead an keep adamofevil's $20, that takes care of that.  
As to priorities, just ask us we'll tell you which order to put things in.


----------



## tivoupgrade

willardcpa said:


> "resources and priorities". Hell, we can help you with that.
> As to recources, go ahead an keep adamofevil's $20, that takes care of that.
> As to priorities, just ask us we'll tell you which order to put things in.


Understood.  Wish I could tell you more but until we are closer to having something noteworthy to tell you, I have to be relatively cryptic...


----------



## Chesney09

Since I can... 
Here is my .02

AdamofEvil.. Yea.. According to all of the cautions, warning policies PTVupgrade puts up.. You don;t have a leg to stand on. Chaljk it up as a learning experience.

PTVUpgrade - COme on.. POlicies are in place for a reason and that 'general' reason is to prevent abuse. It takes a bit of management ability to look at the issue at hand and decide if it is a mistake or abuse. In the name of Customer Service.. You have to bend the policies a bit. Sometimes maybe losing a few cnets now will reap many more dollars later in repeat business, referrals, etc. 
You are up to 5 pages on a VERY visible - forum.. You have had to defend yourself (be it rightly so or not, is not my judgement) and all the banter over the issue. WOuldn;t it just have been a good business decision to give the correct version to him?? You still made 10 bucks over what he actually wanted. 
I can say.. Being a person that deals with MANY IT and Tech companies and the lack of Cust Service, I always look twice and feedback of a negative sort ad take my busines accordingly. How a company treats and responds to clients says alot.. especially in a country where all we really do is offer services.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

well I know the deli warned me if I got suarkraut on my corned beef sandwich it would be a rueben but not an Amrican Idol winner. If I wanted that I should be careful and order from the correct store.

They further warned me they definitely would not take the sandwich back once I downloaded it.


----------



## rbautch

Now I'm getting hungry. I'm off to Johnnies for a combo.


----------



## Gunnyman

Chesney09 said:


> Since I can...
> Here is my .02
> 
> AdamofEvil.. Yea.. According to all of the cautions, warning policies PTVupgrade puts up.. You don;t have a leg to stand on. Chaljk it up as a learning experience.
> 
> PTVUpgrade - COme on.. POlicies are in place for a reason and that 'general' reason is to prevent abuse. It takes a bit of management ability to look at the issue at hand and decide if it is a mistake or abuse. In the name of Customer Service.. You have to bend the policies a bit. Sometimes maybe losing a few cnets now will reap many more dollars later in repeat business, referrals, etc.
> You are up to 5 pages on a VERY visible - forum.. You have had to defend yourself (be it rightly so or not, is not my judgement) and all the banter over the issue. WOuldn;t it just have been a good business decision to give the correct version to him?? You still made 10 bucks over what he actually wanted.
> I can say.. Being a person that deals with MANY IT and Tech companies and the lack of Cust Service, I always look twice and feedback of a negative sort ad take my busines accordingly. How a company treats and responds to clients says alot.. especially in a country where all we really do is offer services.


Perhaps if the OP had not come to Lou spitting venom there would have been a happier outcome for him.


----------



## Luv2DrvFst

Observation of the day: adamofevil is no longer listed as a member.


----------



## andyf

Just to chime in to support ptvupgrade. I have used his service many times to upgrade TiVos. His response to Emails have always been prompt and his service has always been excellent.


----------



## tivoupgrade

Chesney09 said:


> Since I can...
> Here is my .02
> 
> AdamofEvil.. Yea.. According to all of the cautions, warning policies PTVupgrade puts up.. You don;t have a leg to stand on. Chaljk it up as a learning experience.
> 
> PTVUpgrade - COme on.. POlicies are in place for a reason and that 'general' reason is to prevent abuse. It takes a bit of management ability to look at the issue at hand and decide if it is a mistake or abuse. In the name of Customer Service.. You have to bend the policies a bit. Sometimes maybe losing a few cnets now will reap many more dollars later in repeat business, referrals, etc.
> You are up to 5 pages on a VERY visible - forum.. You have had to defend yourself (be it rightly so or not, is not my judgement) and all the banter over the issue. WOuldn;t it just have been a good business decision to give the correct version to him?? You still made 10 bucks over what he actually wanted.
> I can say.. Being a person that deals with MANY IT and Tech companies and the lack of Cust Service, I always look twice and feedback of a negative sort ad take my busines accordingly. How a company treats and responds to clients says alot.. especially in a country where all we really do is offer services.


I do understand where you are coming from and if you take a look at my previous (and long-winded) response on the issue, you'll see that we do use discretion when it comes to issues like this.

This was a situation where the initial decision was not made by myself (I was out of the office that Friday), a fully appropriate response was sent by my employee, and by the time I'd checked my email, the OP had resorted to terrorist-tactics by creating this post.

I think the decision to uphold our policy, in this case, was the correct one. I consider it a good business decision to have done so because we really don't want folks like adamofevil paying any less attention to important details about the DIY decision making process than they already may be. This thread serves as an important reminder of that. The last thing I want to do is publicly set a precedent that takes the community in the wrong direction - I'd rather 'bend the rules' behind the scenes than in public...

Anyway, thx again.


----------



## Redux

tivoupgrade said:


> the OP had resorted to terrorist-tactics by creating this post


Maybe you know someone who could get this terrorist removed from the forum.


----------



## ttodd1

Luv2DrvFst said:


> Observation of the day: adamofevil is no longer listed as a member.


Funny I still see him as a member..... although I wish I hadn't.....


----------



## Chesney09

tivoupgrade said:


> I do understand where you are coming from and if you take a look at my previous (and long-winded) response on the issue, you'll see that we do use discretion when it comes to issues like this.
> 
> This was a situation where the initial decision was not made by myself (I was out of the office that Friday), a fully appropriate response was sent by my employee, and by the time I'd checked my email, the OP had resorted to terrorist-tactics by creating this post.
> 
> I think the decision to uphold our policy, in this case, was the correct one. I consider it a good business decision to have done so because we really don't want folks like adamofevil paying any less attention to important details about the DIY decision making process than they already may be. This thread serves as an important reminder of that. The last thing I want to do is publicly set a precedent that takes the community in the wrong direction - I'd rather 'bend the rules' behind the scenes than in public...
> 
> Anyway, thx again.


I've read the whole thread and you have very valid points. I don't argue that you were right in your decision or question your emplyess decision. 
Sometimes.. You just gotta give the customer the 'the customer is always right' thing. It can save time, hassle, etc, etc.

Anyways. Enough of this. No sense in more banter. 
Tomrrow is FRIDAY! FINALLY!


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## adamofevil

i am still very much a member, though i was banned for a couple of days because i resorted to name calling in a single reply in another thread after being fed up with being repeatedly called names for expressing my opinions, whereas the hypocrites (who reported me for it) seem to be free to call me whatever names they want without any type of repercussions. i just want to remind you all, that it would be impossible for me to email ptvupgrade requesting a new link for the download considering they dont respond to my emails. apparently they consider post-sale emails a harrassment. therefore, i had no choice but to start this thread here, since i was unable to obtain any further responses from them via personal electronic communication, or even physical communication (they dont answer their phones, and apparently the two times i tried to call them and received an answering machine without leaving a message is also considered by them to be harrassment ((( see lou's first response ))) ).


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## Martin Tupper

I'd consider it harassment too. They answered your emails, you just didn't like the answer. So what do do? You keep contacting them to complain about a dead issue. Then you posted about it here. And you besmirched Lou & PTVupgrade saying that they are unethical and that they duped you. 

Now here's the funny part, it turns out that you need their assistance again, because (alledgedly) your download is now corrupted. But because of your childish tirades, it looks like you're fresh out of friends over at PTVupgrade. Karma, whatchagonnado?


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## Markman07

Ding Ding Ding....

Round 3 has started....................


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## Gunnyman

I still like Reuben Sammiches


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## SeanC

Die thread!

DIE!

ETA:

Isn't there a really great DTD graphic? I know I've seen it a couple of times around here.


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## ttodd1

I knew it was too quiet. And I hate it when I'm right........


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## swizzlest

adamofevil said:


> i am still very much a member, though i was banned for a couple of days because i resorted to name calling in a single reply in another thread after being fed up with being repeatedly called names for expressing my opinions, whereas the hypocrites (who reported me for it) seem to be free to call me whatever names they want without any type of repercussions. i just want to remind you all, that it would be impossible for me to email ptvupgrade requesting a new link for the download considering they dont respond to my emails. apparently they consider post-sale emails a harrassment. therefore, i had no choice but to start this thread here, since i was unable to obtain any further responses from them via personal electronic communication, or even physical communication (they dont answer their phones, and apparently the two times i tried to call them and received an answering machine without leaving a message is also considered by them to be harrassment ((( see lou's first response ))) ).


Actually, it was me who reported you. I never called you anything.


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## Yog-Sothoth

On an "important" note (rbautch will understand ), is anyone up for some Space Invaders in the TCF Arcade?


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