# Premier HAS to have a cable card???



## comcastblows (Dec 22, 2007)

I plan on trying to use a premier just for SD shows. Can I skip the hassle of dealing with TWC trying to screw me again (as I went through it with my HD tivo a couple years ago)? 

From what I've seen on here, it looks like I will still be able to tune any SD channels without the cable card, correct? Will I still have the dual tuner aspect even if they're both in SD?

I guess my question is what what I be missing other than HD channels and channels that are only on SDT at this point? 

I'm on the fence about just buying another series 2, or trying out a premier...

Thanks!


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## tre74 (Nov 12, 2010)

Got an antenna? You'll get networks in HD for nothing on both tuners. I'm talking about the Premiere.


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## GBL (Apr 20, 2000)

comcastblows said:


> From what I've seen on here, it looks like I will still be able to tune any SD channels without the cable card, correct? Will I still have the dual tuner aspect even if they're both in SD?


You'll get any *analog* SD channels without a cable card (with guide data).

You will have dual tuners.


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## kturcotte (Dec 9, 2002)

You MIGHT get networks with an antenna. Check your address here: www.tvfool.com and see what type on an antenna you would need for the channels you want. However, if you want any cable channels, you're either going to have to go with something like Hulu+ or cable. Check with TW, and tell them you ONLY want SD channels. You may or may not need a cable card. I know where I am (I have TW in Maine), even some of the SD channels require a a cable card and tuning adapter. Also, if you want any premium channels (HBO, Showtime), those are probably going to require a cable card, even for the SD versions.
However, if you're going with TW, chances are, if you subscribe to Digital Cable, you're getting the HD channels for free anyway, so why NOT record those versions?
Whether you need/use a cable card or not though, you will still be able to use both tuners at the same time.


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## comcastblows (Dec 22, 2007)

Well kick a55! Yeah, we are already paying for service on a cable card on our hd tivo... I just know that it took forever, like 8 trips, with TWC to get it set up correctlya few years back. 

We don't really need more hd stuff, the premier would be used for sd channels anyway, so I figure why give TWC more money. If I don't need/have to get another cable card, then I won't bother.

So I'll still get two tuners with all the sd content. And it wouldn't be possible to maybe see OTA HD local stations if I hook up a hd antenna, right asking too much?

I guess if all else fails I guess I'll deal with paying TWC the extra few bucks a month, it just doesn't seem worth it with all the random black outs and tuning adapter resets. At least on my old series 2, I never missed a show in sd...


Thanks guys!!!


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

The Tivo will record up to channel 100 without a cable card, one program that is...

I was told that soon there will be a card that can record up to 4 channels at a time plus allow the use of "On-demand channels"

Sounds like a whole new can o worms gonna open up thereafter, if this rumor pans out


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Dr_Diablo said:


> The Tivo will record up to channel 100 without a cable card, one program that is...
> 
> I was told that soon there will be a card that can record up to 4 channels at a time plus allow the use of "On-demand channels"
> 
> Sounds like a whole new can o worms gonna open up thereafter, if this rumor pans out


The current M type cable card can record 6 channels, the limitation is the number of tuners in the TiVo, a new model TiVo may have 4 turners as some have discussed, and Comcast and TiVo are going to start testing *on-demand* using TiVo.


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

comcastblows said:


> We don't really need more hd stuff, the premier would be used for sd channels anyway, so I figure why give TWC more money.


It's 2011, who still watches content in standard def when HD is available?



comcastblows said:


> And it wouldn't be possible to maybe see OTA HD local stations if I hook up a hd antenna, right asking too much?


This is a location-dependent question. You probably will be able to get free local HD from NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, PBS, etc. with an over the air (terrestrial) antenna assuming you don't live in BFE. As kturcotte recommended, go to www.tvfool.com and enter your address to see what local HD programming you have a reasonable chance of receiving.

You can post a link to your TV Fool results here if you want recommendations on what antenna should work for your location. TV Fool will mask your actual street address but give antenna reception results that are accurate enough to make a good recommendation for you. In most cases, if you are close enough to the big city to be wired for cable you may be able to get free HD with an over the air antenna. The Premiere does *not* need to have a cable card to get free HD.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

JimboG said:


> It's 2011, who still watches content in standard def when HD is available?


People who are not impressed with and don't really give damn about HD TV. The type that don't get all whiny when SD is the only option for a program.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

scandia101 said:


> People who are not impressed with and don't really give damn about HD TV. The type that don't get all whiny when SD is the only option for a program.


Yep. My 85 year old mom can't tell the difference so doesn't care.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Beryl said:


> Yep. My 85 year old mom can't tell the difference so doesn't care.


It's not always about seeing the difference.


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

SD works fine...but you only see what your cableco provides to you in that format.

For us with Comcast, that equates to about 12 channels, nearly all local.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Dr_Diablo said:


> The Tivo will record up to channel 100 without a cable card, one program that is...


Wrong, it will record two channels in analog (or digital OTA) without a cablecard too. The only confusion is with the *original* Series 3, you need TWO cablecards if you have any cable cards, or else you have a SINGLE tuner device, regardless of what source you are trying to record from.



JimboG said:


> It's 2011, who still watches content in standard def when HD is available?


I now even have a HDTV (very old CRT finally died). I record the SD versions, and would *often* choose the analog versions, simply for disk space reasons. I even have a 2 TB drive in my Tivo. If I were recording all HD, I couldn't keep tons and tons of stuff.


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## JimboG (May 27, 2007)

scandia101 said:


> People who are not impressed with and don't really give damn about HD TV. The type that don't get all whiny when SD is the only option for a program.


People with such poor visual acuity that they shouldn't be endangering others by driving on public roadways.

Seriously, if you can't appreciate the difference between fuzzy SD and modern HD broadcasts you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel of a vessel or motor vehicle.


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## Dr_Diablo (Nov 24, 2003)

worse are those that try to multitask while driving... talkin on a call an driving is a mess whn your behind em

I've seen a gal doing 80 on the interstate reading a book, duh?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> People who are not impressed with and don't really give damn about HD TV. The type that don't get all whiny when SD is the only option for a program.


I am guessing that people who don't care much about HD TV actually don't care mush about TV in general and likely will have a small low end HD TV. I also think that it depends on the TV, how close you sit to it, and how good your eyes are how much someone will care about HD versus SD.

If you have a 32" HD TV, sit 15 feet away and have poor eye site I am sure SD is just fine.

However if you have a 60" HD TV, sit 8 feet away and have good eye site SD will look like sh**. If fact is will likely look significantly worse than it did on an old 32" CRT.

On my 50" set sitting about 12 feet away with good corrected vision, upscaled DVDs are fine but stuff still on my old Series 2 TiVos looks pretty bad and I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to watch it.

Thanks,


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

JimboG said:


> People with such poor visual acuity that they shouldn't be endangering others by driving on public roadways.
> 
> Seriously, if you can't appreciate the difference between fuzzy SD and modern HD broadcasts you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel of a vessel or motor vehicle.


My 85 year old mother doesn't drive any more but she does enjoy TV like others who have poor vision. What is your point - other than being nasty?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dr_Diablo said:


> worse are those that try to multitask while driving... talkin on a call an driving is a mess whn your behind em
> 
> I've seen a gal doing 80 on the interstate reading a book, duh?


I've seen people reading a newspaper and eating a bowl of ceral at the same time while driving down the road. I have no idea how they do it, but I get as far away as possible.

Earlier this year someone got arrested around here for driving down the highway, while having sex. Somehow they were driving but was also lying down with the upper portion of their body in the back seat.


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

scandia101 said:


> People who are not impressed with and don't really give damn about HD TV. The type that don't get all whiny when SD is the only option for a program.


Yep, that would be us. LR TV is 52" Bravia with a 240hz refresh rate that we appreciate much for watching Blu-Ray discs, some self recorded, and viewing vacation photos. But as to most cable content, digital SD is fine. We don't video stream to any of our three, also TiVo equipped, flat panel displays either...too much bother for our viewing habit/needs. Also, no surprise, I could care less about my PXL's HD menus so no issue there either.

For the most part, satisfaction of our High Def experience requirements doesn't involve television screens.


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

JimboG said:


> People with such poor visual acuity that they shouldn't be endangering others by driving on public roadways.
> 
> Seriously, if you can't appreciate the difference between fuzzy SD and modern HD broadcasts you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel of a vessel or motor vehicle.


Both of us can see quite fine. Just because you can't comprehend some folk simply don't care doesn't make the rest of the world wrong....coupled with the snippy comments it just makes you a jerk.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

JimboG said:


> People with such poor visual acuity that they shouldn't be endangering others by driving on public roadways.
> 
> Seriously, if you can't appreciate the difference between fuzzy SD and modern HD broadcasts you probably shouldn't be behind the wheel of a vessel or motor vehicle.


Appreciating the difference and caring are two extremely different things my over compensating friend.

Why do people choose such asinine things to be snobby about?


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

scandia101 said:


> Appreciating the difference and caring are two extremely different things my over compensating friend.
> 
> Why do people choose such asinine things to be snobby about?


Far more eloquent.


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## JoeTaxpayer (Dec 23, 2008)

I know the original question was for TW. 
I read the answer that up to ch 100 w/no card.

In the last round of updates, Comcast has reduced their analog offering to just the broadcast stations, above that needs DTA or cards. I suspect other cable guys will do the same and would bet on anything with no card long term.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

comcastblows said:


> Well kick a55! Yeah, we are already paying for service on a cable card on our hd tivo... I just know that it took forever, like 8 trips, with TWC to get it set up correctlya few years back.


AFAIK it would only be $2.50 more per month. And given that TWC is eventually getting rid of analog channels to make room for HD channels, you will have to get a cablecard eventually. Since you are already paying for the service to receive the extra channels, I think it is well worth the small monthly fee. TWC now lets you do self installs of cablecards and tuning adapter. I did two today and all I had to do was call their cablecard hotline and it took only 10 minutes to get them activated.


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## Kevin L (Jan 10, 2002)

With all the back and forth about old people and multi-tasking while driving, I just want to confirm one thing:

From what I read, if I buy a Premier XL and can pick up HD locals by my OTA antenna, I WILL be able to record two OTA shows at the same time. Is that correct?

Thanks!


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Kevin L said:


> With all the back and forth about old people and multi-tasking while driving, I just want to confirm one thing:
> 
> From what I read, if I buy a Premier XL and can pick up HD locals by my OTA antenna, I WILL be able to record two OTA shows at the same time. Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks!


Yes, the Premiere will record two OTA shows at once (without needing a cable card or tuning adapter), assuming that you have a current TiVo subscription.


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## Kevin L (Jan 10, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> Yes, the Premiere will record two OTA shows at once (without needing a cable card or tuning adapter), assuming that you have a current TiVo subscription.


Thanks, David. Looks like I'll order one.


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## bcnyc (Mar 1, 2002)

I have no-box basic TWC. When I attach the cable from wall directly to my TV, I get digital HD for local channels (4-1, 4-2, etc). 

Just got a refurb Premier. No M-card. When I attach the TWC cable to the "cable" connection on Premier, it gives me locals in SD (which I expected). When I attach cable to "antenna" connection, there is no signal at all on any of the locals.

Is my Premier's "antenna" connection working? I'd love to be able to watch and record local channels in HD off the Premier.

I live in a ground floor condo in the interior of a block of tall buildings in Brooklyn, so can't easily check for OTA.

Thanks!


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

bcnyc said:


> I have no-box basic TWC. When I attach the cable from wall directly to my TV, I get digital HD for local channels (4-1, 4-2, etc).
> 
> Just got a refurb Premier. No M-card. When I attach the TWC cable to the "cable" connection on Premier, it gives me locals in SD (which I expected). When I attach cable to "antenna" connection, there is no signal at all on any of the locals.
> 
> ...


I'm OTA only, so bear with me here. If you connected your TWC cable to the Premiere's cable input and told it to scan for cable channels, I would expect it to find the same channels that the TV found when programmed similarly. Did you have to specify a cable provider in some menu? Have you looked in the channel list to see if the channels are listed but not selected? The Premiere's tuners are IMHO excellent for OTA, and I would assume the same for cable, but I suppose you could have a signal strength issue which the TV handles better. Please experiment and report back.

Another thought: I believe I've heard of cable companies providing local stations as ATSC instead of QAM. If they did that, you might have to use the antenna input _and_ tell the Premiere you have an antenna connected. Maybe.


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## bcnyc (Mar 1, 2002)

Thanks much.

I guess I have one last question - when I connect cable to TV, do "search for channels on antenna" (NOT on cable, which is other option), my TV finds HD OTA channels - 5.1, 5.2, etc etc.

When Tivo searches on antenna, it finds nothing.

Is this correct behavior, or is there a problem with the Tivo?



L David Matheny said:


> I'm OTA only, so bear with me here. If you connected your TWC cable to the Premiere's cable input and told it to scan for cable channels, I would expect it to find the same channels that the TV found when programmed similarly. Did you have to specify a cable provider in some menu? Have you looked in the channel list to see if the channels are listed but not selected? The Premiere's tuners are IMHO excellent for OTA, and I would assume the same for cable, but I suppose you could have a signal strength issue which the TV handles better. Please experiment and report back.
> 
> Another thought: I believe I've heard of cable companies providing local stations as ATSC instead of QAM. If they did that, you might have to use the antenna input _and_ tell the Premiere you have an antenna connected. Maybe.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

bcnyc said:


> Thanks much.
> 
> I guess I have one last question - when I connect cable to TV, do "search for channels on antenna" (NOT on cable, which is other option), my TV finds HD OTA channels - 5.1, 5.2, etc etc.
> 
> ...


I don't know. Try telling the TiVo to search for antenna _and_ cable channels twice, once with the cable connected to the cable input and once with it connected to the antenna input. If the TiVo never sees those channels, but your TV does, that would seem to imply that something is wrong with the TiVo or that the TV just has a better tuner. I'm assuming that you don't have some weird conflict between virtual and RF channel numbers or some weird PSIP miscoding.


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## HeatherA (Jan 10, 2002)

Thanks for this thread! I just ordered a refurb Premiere myself to use in the bedroom. It's replacing my S2 DT and I don't want to deal with putting in a cable card. Took hours last time to get my CableCo to get it provisioned correctly. 

Mainly want to use this as a backup TiVo and to be able to watch HD stuff recorded on the other 2 main TiVos in the house. After reading this thread it sounds like I may be ok. My CableCo has recently gone all digital but have left some channels on QAM so we'll have to see how many I actually get. As long as I get locals I should be set for conflicts.


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

bcnyc said:


> I have no-box basic TWC. When I attach the cable from wall directly to my TV, I get digital HD for local channels (4-1, 4-2, etc).
> 
> Just got a refurb Premier. No M-card. When I attach the TWC cable to the "cable" connection on Premier, it gives me locals in SD (which I expected). When I attach cable to "antenna" connection, there is no signal at all on any of the locals.
> 
> Is my Premier's "antenna" connection working? I'd love to be able to watch and record local channels in HD off the Premier.


You will need a cable-card in order for the Tivo to be able to record the HD Feeds.

When you see HD on your TV as channels 4-1, 4-2, etc... that is TWC using PSIP to map the clear QAM channels to something the end user understands (just like a cable box does). (In reality, what you see as 4-1 on your TV is being sent down the pipe on 102-1 or some other channel.)

Your Tivo SHOULD be able to tune clear QAM channels w/o a cable card, BUT the Tivo has no idea what programming is on those clear QAM channels, and cannot get guide data for the programming on those channels. Cable Companies can move those clear QAM feeds around at will, too. The cable card works as the Rosetta Stone and translates the clear QAM channel (102-1) to the virtual channel (4-1) that you are familiar with and that guide data can be provided for.

If you want to record HD from TWC, you'll need a cable card. And since TWC is the land of Free HD, you will get more than just the locals in HD...

Cheers!
-Doug


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## dstoffa (Dec 14, 2005)

bcnyc said:


> Thanks much.
> 
> I guess I have one last question - when I connect cable to TV, do "search for channels on antenna" (NOT on cable, which is other option), my TV finds HD OTA channels - 5.1, 5.2, etc etc.


This is because TWC is making use of PSIP to map the Clear QAM HD Channels to something you are familiar with.



> When Tivo searches on antenna, it finds nothing.


As it shouldn't, as ATSC (the standard digital TV is broadcast in) differs from Clear QAM (a method for transmission of digital cable). It's like trying to receive FM on an AM radio. Similar, but different.



> Is this correct behavior, or is there a problem with the Tivo?


I think it's normal.

Again, you WILL need a cable card so that the Tivo can map QAM channels in order for you to record HD feeds from Time Warner. Without the Rosetta Stone, there is no way for it to know what its tuning.

Cheers!
-Doug


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## Antharpar (Aug 24, 2011)

Im having a problem right now when switching from ota to cable. Thought i could get by without having a cablecard in one of my premieres but it results in a snow effect for all channels. Tivo support said to get a cablecard for the unit. Just tried an old tivo hd and its fine without a cablecard. Third trip to charter on getting a cablecard to pair what a nightmare.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

L David Matheny said:


> Yes, the Premiere will record two OTA shows at once (without needing a cable card or tuning adapter), assuming that you have a current TiVo subscription.


i'm glad i read this because i was a bit worried when i saw the title of the thread. i wanna ditch all pay tv and stick with OTA and online stuff possibly

i'm assuming all the issues with people saying you need a cable card only apply to those who have cable and are trying to get channels without?


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## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

newsposter said:


> i'm glad i read this because i was a bit worried when i saw the title of the thread. i wanna ditch all pay tv and stick with OTA and online stuff possibly
> 
> i'm assuming all the issues with people saying you need a cable card only apply to those who have cable and are trying to get channels without?


Yes, it'll work fine. With OTA + internet, you'll be able to do the HDTV OTA and several internet choices (netflish, hulu+, youtube, amazon).


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## appleye1 (Jan 26, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Earlier this year someone got arrested around here for driving down the highway, while having sex. Somehow they were driving but was also lying down with the upper portion of their body in the back seat.


Sounds like a job for the reverse cowgirl position! (How did we end up discussing this in a Premiere thread! )


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