# OnePass and the loss of multiple SP for same show



## csell

I've seen other complain and discuss this issue in various threads, but I want to see if anyone has a solution. Before OnePass, it was possible to set up multiple Season Passes for the same show but on different channels. I used this ALOT. An example - Law and Order SVU. One season pass for NBC to record all new episodes. And a second season pass on USA to record repeats. I has it setup to keep up to 10 of the repeat USA shows. This way, anytime there was nothing to watch, I would be able to just pick an old SVU to watch. And with the NBC season pass, I got all of the new ones. One important feature of this is the 10 episodes on the USA season pass just keep replacing each other and left alone the new NBC season pass. This was very important as I never worried about losing a new episode of SVU.

Now with the new OnePass, Tivo took away this feature from us, which I know upsets a lot of people. My question is, Is there any way of duplicating what I used to do (and I'm sure others do as well). I know you can set Channel to "All" and Record to "New and Repeats". This will get the new episodes on NBC and the repeats on other channels (but the capability to select what channel was taken away). But the big problem I see is the new episodes can be deleted at anytime. If you know anything about SVU, you know there are TONS of episodes on all of the time. So it could record the new epidode on Wed night and then by Thursday afternoon, it could be deleted because 10 repeat epidodes were recorded on another channel. This is a problem. You can say, just mark the new episode as Keep until I delete, but I should not have to remember to go in there every Wed night to mark it. Tivo is suppose to make TV watching easier, not more difficult. Not a fan of this at all.

Any thoughts?


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## TiVoMargret

For your case, where you want some re-run episodes of SVU available to watch, and you never want to lose a "new" episode, I recommend:

- Set your OnePass to record only "NEW" episodes
- In Settings, turn on auto-recording of TiVo Suggestions
- Give SVU three thumbs up

Now re-runs that are recorded as TiVo Suggestions will appear in your SVU folder. (They will be clearly marked with the black icon.)

You also may want to set the OnePass to "recordings and streaming videos" and "Don't include Rent or Buy". Then if there are free ways to stream old episodes, those will be available in the folder as well.


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## csell

TiVoMargret said:


> For your case, where you want some re-run episodes of SVU available to watch, and you never want to lose a "new" episode, I recommend:
> 
> - Set your OnePass to record only "NEW" episodes
> - In Settings, turn on auto-recording of TiVo Suggestions
> - Give SVU three thumbs up
> 
> Now re-runs that are recorded as TiVo Suggestions will appear in your SVU folder. (They will be clearly marked with the black icon.)
> 
> You also may want to set the OnePass to "recordings and streaming videos" and "Don't include Rent or Buy". Then if there are free ways to stream old episodes, those will be available in the folder as well.


By turning on Tivo Suggestions, My Shows are now going to be populated with other TV shows that I don't want. I've never used Tivo Suggestions and don't feel like I should be forced to use it to try to bring back functionality that has always been there for the 10+ years I've had it. I've talked to a lot of people that are upset about losing this functionality.


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## CoxInPHX

TiVoMargret said:


> For your case, where you want some re-run episodes of SVU available to watch, and you never want to lose a "new" episode, I recommend:
> 
> - Set your OnePass to record only "NEW" episodes
> - In Settings, turn on auto-recording of TiVo Suggestions
> - Give SVU three thumbs up
> 
> Now re-runs that are recorded as TiVo Suggestions will appear in your SVU folder. (They will be clearly marked with the black icon.)
> 
> You also may want to set the OnePass to "recordings and streaming videos" and "Don't include Rent or Buy". Then if there are free ways to stream old episodes, those will be available in the folder as well.


I really appreciate your participation here, and highly respect you,

But you cannot honestly believe this non-solution is what the users want. Sure you will get a few completely random repeats, and many other suggestions you do not need/want recorded.

This is not the programmers solution, this is the marketing dept answer.


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## cherry ghost

csell said:


> You can say, just mark the new episode as Keep until I delete, but I should not have to remember to go in there every Wed night to mark it.


Not a solution, but you don't have to wait for it to record before marking it KUID. You can do it any time before it records from the To Do List.


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## csell

CoxInPHX said:


> I really appreciate your participation here, and highly respect you,
> 
> But you cannot honestly believe this non-solution is what the users want. Sure you will get a few completely random repeats, and many other suggestions you do not need/want recorded.
> 
> This is not the programmers solution, this is the marketing dept answer.


Thank you - well said... It's frustrating that Tivo has come up with this "new" way of watching shows and is forcing all of their loyal customers to use it... And my favorite is when they say "free ways to stream old episodes". There is NO FREE WAY of streaming shows - they all cost money - Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, and so on. They all have monthly or yearly charges.


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## cherry ghost

TiVoMargret said:


> For your case, where you want some re-run episodes of SVU available to watch, and you never want to lose a "new" episode, I recommend:
> 
> - Set your OnePass to record only "NEW" episodes
> - In Settings, turn on auto-recording of TiVo Suggestions
> - Give SVU three thumbs up
> 
> Now re-runs that are recorded as TiVo Suggestions will appear in your SVU folder. (They will be clearly marked with the black icon.)
> 
> You also may want to set the OnePass to "recordings and streaming videos" and "Don't include Rent or Buy". Then if there are free ways to stream old episodes, those will be available in the folder as well.


I'd like to hear your solution to "PGA Tour Golf" where it's shown on two different channels on the same day with the same Guide data. "New only" means it doesn't record on the second channel because it thinks it has already recorded it earlier. "New & repeats" gets you the reair later in the evening and causes conflicts. You also can't pad properly. The second recording needs to be padded for overruns, but the first never needs to be because it always ends on time due to the channel change.

Another example is "NFL Football". I only want to record Thursday night games and Monday night games. This is no longer possible.


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## kturcotte

I agree, I'm not going to like this either, and it's seriously making me think of looking for another DVR. This causes a MAJOR problem. I record the Simpsons on Fox on Sunday nights. I have it set to keep all episodes and to keep until I delete, and because football is usually on before, I set it to extend the recording 3 hours longer. I also record repeats of the Simpsons in syndication on a different channel. I don't want those to keep until I delete, and I certainly don't want them being extended by 3 hours. So I have a couple of options, neither of which will be ideal. I can either stop recording the syndication/repeats, or leave the syndication/repeat settings, and manually go in and edit the ones on Fox. Neither are ideal or automatic like how it currently works, and I won't like it. And no, I'm sorry, but I don't like the suggestion of hoping Suggestions decides to record the repeats. I want to ensure that they're recorded, and I also want to ensure that the new Fox episodes are extended by 3 hours and are keep until I delete. This OnePass just seems like a MAJOR step backwards!


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## csell

kturcotte said:


> This OnePass just seems like a MAJOR step backwards!


Absolutely agree. Tivo thought they were revolutionizing the way you watch TV, but instead what they did was take away Tivo's biggest strong point - the ability to very easily (through an awesome UI) record whatever you want, whenever you want, and however you want. No cable DVR can do it like Tivo could. And now they took that away because they tried to get "cute" with a new way of doing it.


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## SnakeEyes

cherry ghost said:


> I'd like to hear your solution to "PGA Tour Golf" where it's shown on two different channels on the same day with the same Guide data. "New only" means it doesn't record on the second channel because it thinks it has already recorded it earlier. "New & repeats" gets you the reair later in the evening and causes conflicts. You also can't pad properly. The second recording needs to be padded for overruns, but the first never needs to be because it always ends on time due to the channel change.
> 
> Another example is "NFL Football". I only want to record Thursday night games and Monday night games. This is no longer possible.


I thought those games showed up in the guide as Monday Night Football and Thursday Night Football. No?


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## Dan203

csell said:


> I've seen other complain and discuss this issue in various threads, but I want to see if anyone has a solution. Before OnePass, it was possible to set up multiple Season Passes for the same show but on different channels. I used this ALOT. An example - Law and Order SVU. One season pass for NBC to record all new episodes. And a second season pass on USA to record repeats. I has it setup to keep up to 10 of the repeat USA shows. This way, anytime there was nothing to watch, I would be able to just pick an old SVU to watch. And with the NBC season pass, I got all of the new ones. One important feature of this is the 10 episodes on the USA season pass just keep replacing each other and left alone the new NBC season pass. This was very important as I never worried about losing a new episode of SVU.
> 
> Now with the new OnePass, Tivo took away this feature from us, which I know upsets a lot of people. My question is, Is there any way of duplicating what I used to do (and I'm sure others do as well). I know you can set Channel to "All" and Record to "New and Repeats". This will get the new episodes on NBC and the repeats on other channels (but the capability to select what channel was taken away). But the big problem I see is the new episodes can be deleted at anytime. If you know anything about SVU, you know there are TONS of episodes on all of the time. So it could record the new epidode on Wed night and then by Thursday afternoon, it could be deleted because 10 repeat epidodes were recorded on another channel. This is a problem. You can say, just mark the new episode as Keep until I delete, but I should not have to remember to go in there every Wed night to mark it. Tivo is suppose to make TV watching easier, not more difficult. Not a fan of this at all.
> 
> Any thoughts?


You could use a Wish List for the repeats. If you're specific with the title, and maybe throw in the name of one of the main actors, it should only pick up that show. Not a perfect solution, but it should work better then using Suggestions.


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## kturcotte

Dan203 said:


> You could use a Wish List for the repeats. If you're specific with the title, and maybe throw in the name of one of the main actors, it should only pick up that show. Not a perfect solution, but it should work better then using Suggestions.


Would the wishlist ignore the episodes on Fox?


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## Dan203

If you put it at a lower priority then the higher priority 1P would record the episodes on Fox and the WL would get everything else. The 28 day rule would prevent both from getting it.


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## kturcotte

I'm going to try that. Thanks! Still prefer the old way of having 2 season passes, though!


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## rainwater

SnakeEyes said:


> I thought those games showed up in the guide as Monday Night Football and Thursday Night Football. No?


No. All regular season games are titled, "NFL Football".


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## BigJimOutlaw

csell said:


> Any thoughts?


Dan mentioned using WL's for repeats, or you can set a KUID Wishlist for new episodes, and set a season pass for repeats on the best channel.


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## RoyK

Dan203 said:


> You could use a Wish List for the repeats. If you're specific with the title, and maybe throw in the name of one of the main actors, it should only pick up that show. Not a perfect solution, but it should work better then using Suggestions.


That does work however if you set up a bunch of shows that way (and I do have more than one SP for a bunch of shows) you will now have 2 folders in your programs list for each -- a real mess.


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## Grakthis

The solutions offered here, guys, are valid solutions. You're essentially saying "no valid solution is valid unless it's identical to the way it used to work." If that's what you want, make a thread for "throwing tantrums about functionality changes." If what you want is real suggestions for work arounds that give you the shows you want, but maybe in a different way, or maybe you have to delete some excess recordings, then try some of the stuff that's been suggested here.

This "no true solution" non-sense I'm reading isn't helping anyone.

Like, for real, "the folder isn't there, so it doesn't work?" Are you ****ing kidding me? We're talking about a device that magically gives you infinite shows to watch and you're mad because they might be in a different folder than you want, and that's worth being a pedantic **** to a TiVo rep that is trying to help you? Who does that?


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## csell

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Dan mentioned using WL's for repeats, or you can set a KUID Wishlist for new episodes, and set a season pass for repeats on the best channel.


What is a *KUID* Wishlist?


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## cherry ghost

csell said:


> What is a *KUID* Wishlist?


KUID = Keep Until I Delete


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## h2oskierc

csell said:


> What is a *KUID* Wishlist?


*K*eep *U*ntil *I* *D*elete


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## csell

h2oskierc said:


> *K*eep *U*ntil *I* *D*elete


Thanks


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## csell

Grakthis said:


> The solutions offered here, guys, are valid solutions. You're essentially saying "no valid solution is valid unless it's identical to the way it used to work." If that's what you want, make a thread for "throwing tantrums about functionality changes." If what you want is real suggestions for work arounds that give you the shows you want, but maybe in a different way, or maybe you have to delete some excess recordings, then try some of the stuff that's been suggested here.
> 
> This "no true solution" non-sense I'm reading isn't helping anyone.
> 
> Like, for real, "the folder isn't there, so it doesn't work?" Are you ****ing kidding me? We're talking about a device that magically gives you infinite shows to watch and you're mad because they might be in a different folder than you want, and that's worth being a pedantic **** to a TiVo rep that is trying to help you? Who does that?


I respectfully disagree with you. First, there is not a 'valid solution', but rather a few "work-arounds". Second, when you are a paying customer, you have every right to question the decision of the business to change one of their most fundamental features that has existed for 15+ years so some 'new' technology that not everyone wants.


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## aaronwt

csell said:


> Thank you - well said... It's frustrating that Tivo has come up with this "new" way of watching shows and is forcing all of their loyal customers to use it... And my favorite is when they say "free ways to stream old episodes". There is NO FREE WAY of streaming shows - they all cost money - Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, and so on. They all have monthly or yearly charges.


Well technically Amazon is free. I've been paying for Amazon Prime since a few months after it started ten years ago. That was for the shipping deals. They added streaming to that later at no additonal cost.


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## slowbiscuit

cherry ghost said:


> Another example is "NFL Football". I only want to record Thursday night games and Monday night games. This is no longer possible.


Repeating manual recordings are the obvious fix for this because the time is not going to change. Once a year when ESPN shows the opening doubleheader of MNF is about the only time you'd have to do a specific couple of recordings.

But yeah it's a lot easier with multiple SPs. And I agree that there is no good fix for PGA Tour Golf at all.


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## slowbiscuit

kturcotte said:


> This OnePass just seems like a MAJOR step backwards!


It's two steps forward, one back, like almost everything Tivo does with new software.


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## trip1eX

Yeah I don't like what this update did to old functionality at all. I bought a Tivo to record cable. Tivo really did make recording cable worse with this update.


But there are a few other workarounds besides Suggestions. They are:

Use wishlists along with OnePass.

Use manual recordings along with OnePass.

Get a bigger hard drive.


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## Jonathan_S

Dan203 said:


> If you put it at a lower priority then the higher priority 1P would record the episodes on Fox and the WL would get everything else. The 28 day rule would prevent both from getting it.


Though if Fox ever runs repeats (or if another station starts airing them) the wishlist would pick those up (because the first run only 1-pass wouldn't).

But those extra repeats would still get lumped in with the USA repeats and not cause any new episodes from Fox to get hit by the "keep at most" limit.


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## trip1eX

It seems like Tivo could change the code to delete repeats before new episodes at least up to a point. And also give us a KeepAtMost setting between 10 and 25 as 10 is 10 isn't enough and 25 is too much. And/or give us 1 KeepAtMost setting for new and 1 for repeats.


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## csell

Adding to things they could add to fix this, I think the following two would help for *Wishlist*:

1) Allow you to specify a channel just like what you can do for SP or OnePass.

2) Add *"Repeats Only"* to the other recording options which are "New", "New and Repeats" and "Everything".

These aren't really new feature request, but rather a way to fix what they broke.


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## aaronwt

They really need to just have other options with the One Pass. Like have two priority settings for each One Pass. One priority for new shows and one priority for repeats. Then also separate options for the number of shows to keep for new and repeats. And then third, a way to specify which channels you want the One Pass to record from. Like you would have an option of one channel, all channels, or specific selected channels.

It seems like having these three options would bring back the functionality you had before One Pass was added. Heck they could even go further and have sub folders. With one folder for recordings of new episodes and one folder for repeats


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## trip1eX

csell said:


> Adding to things they could add to fix this, I think the following two would help for *Wishlist*:
> 
> 1) Allow you to specify a channel just like what you can do for SP or OnePass.
> 
> 2) Add *"Repeats Only"* to the other recording options which are "New", "New and Repeats" and "Everything".
> 
> These aren't really new feature request, but rather a way to fix what they broke.


Yeah and really they could just give Wishlists an option to record by specific show.


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## csell

What sucks is that even if Tivo acknowledges that they made a mistake that they ticked off a lot of loyal customers and come up with a solution / fix, we're still looking at many months before it would ever get to us. If they do address this (which I doubt), we're probably talking about next fall before seeing anything.


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## cherry ghost

slowbiscuit said:


> Repeating manual recordings are the obvious fix for this because the time is not going to change. Once a year when ESPN shows the opening doubleheader of MNF is about the only time you'd have to do a specific couple of recordings.


Also, the first Thursday night game this year was NBC, the next seven were CBS & NFL Network, then four on just NFL Network, one on NBC(Thanksgiving), three on NFL Network



aaronwt said:


> They really need to just have other options with the One Pass. Like have two priority settings for each One Pass. One priority for new shows and one priority for repeats. Then also separate options for the number of shows to keep for new and repeats. And then third, a way to specify which channels you want the One Pass to record from. Like you would have an option of one channel, all channels, or specific selected channels.
> 
> It seems like having these three options would bring back the functionality you had before One Pass was added. Heck they could even go further and have sub folders. With one folder for recordings of new episodes and one folder for repeats


I posted something similar in the Premiere forum

"I was thinking they could add a line separate from "Record" called "Record repeats" and you select "Yes" or "No". Default is No with no options. If you select Yes, options for repeats show up below it; Priority, Channel, HD, Start, Stop, etc."


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## h2oskierc

aaronwt said:


> They really need to just have other options with the One Pass. Like have two priority settings for each One Pass. One priority for new shows and one priority for repeats. Then also separate options for the number of shows to keep for new and repeats. And then third, a way to specify which channels you want the One Pass to record from. Like you would have an option of one channel, all channels, or specific selected channels.
> 
> It seems like having these three options would bring back the functionality you had before One Pass was added. Heck they could even go further and have sub folders. With one folder for recordings of new episodes and one folder for repeats


I haven't gotten the update yet, and don't know that I would ever use it, but I like the way that sounds, aaronwt.


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## bradleys

aaronwt said:


> They really need to just have other options with the One Pass. Like have two priority settings for each One Pass. One priority for new shows and one priority for repeats. Then also separate options for the number of shows to keep for new and repeats. And then third, a way to specify which channels you want the One Pass to record from. Like you would have an option of one channel, all channels, or specific selected channels.
> 
> It seems like having these three options would bring back the functionality you had before One Pass was added. Heck they could even go further and have sub folders. With one folder for recordings of new episodes and one folder for repeats


I submitted this exact feature request to tivo a few days ago. Sub folders might be a little confusing, but we are on the same page.

I suggested this to a few members on the forum and the general consensus was it wasn't enough to meet all their needs and requirements.

I suspect tivo is going to wait and see how well experience and time treat the new options before making any decisions to add or remove features.


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## Diana Collins

trip1eX said:


> Yeah I don't like what this update did to old functionality at all. I bought a Tivo to record cable. Tivo really did make recording cable worse with this update.
> 
> But there are a few other workarounds besides Suggestions. They are:
> 
> Use wishlists along with OnePass.
> 
> Use manual recordings along with OnePass.
> 
> Get a bigger hard drive.


Or get another TiVo, and use one to record new episodes and the other to record repeats.


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## trip1eX

Diana Collins said:


> Or get another TiVo, and use one to record new episodes and the other to record repeats.


That's a good one.  I'm surprised Tivo didn't recommend that.


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## Grakthis

csell said:


> I respectfully disagree with you. First, there is not a 'valid solution', but rather a few "work-arounds". Second, when you are a paying customer, you have every right to question the decision of the business to change one of their most fundamental features that has existed for 15+ years so some 'new' technology that not everyone wants.


First, a work-around is a valid solution. Your distinction is without merit.

Second, make a thread for questioning TiVo business decisions then. Don't turn the thread for work-arounds into a different thread. I mean, holy crap, who does that?

"I need help with my homework!"

"HOME WORK IS A PRODUCT OF A HIERARCHICAL SYSTEM OF PATRIARCHY AND WE SHOULD WORK TO BRING ABOUT THE DOWNFALL OF THIS SYSTEM! YOUR HOMEWORK IS FALSE. BURN IT."

"No, I just need help, holy ****."

Come on man, let it go. Let the ANGER go!


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## csell

Grakthis said:


> First, a work-around is a valid solution. Your distinction is without merit.


I'm a software engineer - trust me, a work-around is not a valid solution. It's a temporary method of providing instructions to replace either broken or suddenly missing functionality until a proper update or patch can be applied that



Grakthis said:


> Don't turn the thread for work-arounds into a different thread. I mean, holy crap, who does that?


Gee, a thread that evolved from its original theme. Never heard of that happening.


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## ertyu

Grakthis said:


> First, a work-around is a valid solution. Your distinction is without merit.
> 
> Second, make a thread for questioning TiVo business decisions then. Don't turn the thread for work-arounds into a different thread. I mean, holy crap, who does that?
> 
> "I need help with my homework!"
> 
> "HOME WORK IS A PRODUCT OF A HIERARCHICAL SYSTEM OF PATRIARCHY AND WE SHOULD WORK TO BRING ABOUT THE DOWNFALL OF THIS SYSTEM! YOUR HOMEWORK IS FALSE. BURN IT."
> 
> "No, I just need help, holy ****."
> 
> Come on man, let it go. Let the ANGER go!


The work-arounds don't cover all usage cases of the previous functionality and are therefore not valid solutions for everyone.


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## Keen

I think a good solution would be to decouple the recording from the OnePass. Make them more loosely connected. Have OnePasses just be a list of shows you follow. Then underneath each one, you can tell the Tivo how you want to get the show:
* Streaming (maybe with the ability to specify which streaming provider(s) you want for this show).
* Recorded from one/all OTA/cable channels (old Season Pass functionality).
* Recorded from another channel, etc.

At the OnePass level, you tell it which seasons to start with, which then act as a filter on the recording logic. Each Recording setting then gets thrown into a Season Pass Management-style list so you can prioritize each one.


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## RoyK

I


TiVoMargret said:


> For your case, where you want some re-run episodes of SVU available to watch, and you never want to lose a "new" episode, I recommend:
> 
> - Set your OnePass to record only "NEW" episodes
> - In Settings, turn on auto-recording of TiVo Suggestions
> - Give SVU three thumbs up
> 
> Now re-runs that are recorded as TiVo Suggestions will appear in your SVU folder. (They will be clearly marked with the black icon.)
> 
> You also may want to set the OnePass to "recordings and streaming videos" and "Don't include Rent or Buy". Then if there are free ways to stream old episodes, those will be available in the folder as well.


Even though only behind Alice's looking glass would it be considered a feature to be taken advantage of instead of a serious bug if my box records reruns and puts them in my SVU folder after I specifically set it to exclude repeats I decided to test this 'workaround' using non-updated software for two reasons:

1. I can't believe it works. In ten years of using TiVos and suggestions I don't recall ever having a suggestion recorded and put into a folder configured for first run only.

2. I strongly suspected that even if the scheme does work it won't open up an empty SVU folder to insert a recorded suggestion meaning that if the last recording in the folder is watched and deleted no suggestions will show up in the folder until sometime after the next time NBC airs a new episode (which could be months).

So over 48 hours ago I configured my SVU pass to record only new episodes and gave SVU three thumbs up. Suggestions were already turned on.

Additionally I set up a new SP for "How It's Made" the same way.

Finally I made sure that at least one recording of each show was in the My Programs list. (I planned to test number 2 above once it started recording repeats.

For the entire period since I made the change USA has been running a SVU marathon. "How It's Made" is aired many times a day. Both great candidates for the test.

These two programs are the ONLY ones I've given a three thumbs up rating. I've always used thumbs down to nix stuff I don't like.

Results:

*Not a single episode of either program has recorded. Not one! *

I did, however, confirm that a folder will not be created if it isn't already open. I have a SP for 'The Woodsmith Shop' for New and Repeats. The folder was empty (removed). Suggestions recorded an episode. The folder didn't appear.

I'll continue running my test. Perhaps one day the dice will come up snake eyes and I'll get an SVU recording or two. But so far this workaround is a dud.


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## realityboy

RoyK said:


> I
> 
> Even though only behind Alice's looking glass would it be considered a feature to be taken advantage of instead of a serious bug if my box records reruns and puts them in my SVU folder after I specifically set it to exclude repeats I decided to test this 'workaround' using non-updated software for two reasons:
> 
> 1. I can't believe it works. In ten years of using TiVos and suggestions I don't recall ever having a suggestion recorded and put into a folder configured for first run only.
> 
> 2. I strongly suspected that even if the scheme does work it won't open up an empty SVU folder to insert a recorded suggestion meaning that if the last recording in the folder is watched and deleted no suggestions will show up in the folder until sometime after the next time NBC airs a new episode (which could be months).
> 
> So over 48 hours ago I configured my SVU pass to record only new episodes and gave SVU three thumbs up. Suggestions were already turned on.
> 
> Additionally I set up a new SP for "How It's Made" the same way.
> 
> Finally I made sure that at least one recording of each show was in the My Programs list. (I planned to test number 2 above once it started recording repeats.
> 
> For the entire period since I made the change USA has been running a SVU marathon. "How It's Made" is aired many times a day. Both great candidates for the test.
> 
> These two programs are the ONLY ones I've given a three thumbs up rating. I've always used thumbs down to nix stuff I don't like.
> 
> Results:
> 
> *Not a single episode of either program has recorded. Not one! *
> 
> I did, however, confirm that a folder will not be created if it isn't already open. I have a SP for 'The Woodsmith Shop' for New and Repeats. The folder was empty (removed). Suggestions recorded an episode. The folder didn't appear.
> 
> I'll continue running my test. Perhaps one day the dice will come up snake eyes and I'll get an SVU recording or two. But so far this workaround is a dud.


1 seems to work for me. It'll throw a random repeat suggestion in the same folder as a new episode. Always has as far as I can remember.

2 unless they've changed things, then no it won't start s folder with only suggestions in it.

That said, the reason this workaround fails isn't because of what folder shows end up in, it's that there's no way to control what suggestions are recorded. Sometimes it might record a repeat of a show that you want is pretty inferior to just recording the shows with a SP.


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## RoyK

realityboy said:


> 1 seems to work for me. It'll throw a random repeat suggestion in the same folder as a new episode. Always has as far as I can remember.
> 
> 2 unless they've changed things, then no it won't start s folder with only suggestions in it.
> 
> That said, the reason this workaround fails isn't because of what folder shows end up in, it's that there's no way to control what suggestions are recorded. Sometimes it might record a repeat of a show that you want is pretty inferior to just recording the shows with a SP.


It would seem that actually it's extremely seldom that a repeat of a show that I want would record under this workaround. It's virtually useless.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## BigHat

csell said:


> I'm a software engineer - trust me, a work-around is not a valid solution. It's a temporary method of providing instructions to replace either broken or suddenly missing functionality until a proper update or patch can be applied that
> 
> Gee, a thread that evolved from its original theme. Never heard of that happening.


I agree.


----------



## BigHat

Grakthis said:


> First, a work-around is a valid solution. Your distinction is without merit.
> 
> Second, make a thread for questioning TiVo business decisions then. Don't turn the thread for work-arounds into a different thread. I mean, holy crap, who does that?
> 
> "I need help with my homework!"
> 
> "HOME WORK IS A PRODUCT OF A HIERARCHICAL SYSTEM OF PATRIARCHY AND WE SHOULD WORK TO BRING ABOUT THE DOWNFALL OF THIS SYSTEM! YOUR HOMEWORK IS FALSE. BURN IT."
> 
> "No, I just need help, holy ****."
> 
> Come on man, let it go. Let the ANGER go!


Who made you the Chief of the Thread Police? Your posts are the MOST annoying ones here.


----------



## trip1eX

RoyK said:


> I did, however, confirm that a folder will not be created if it isn't already open. I have a SP for 'The Woodsmith Shop' for New and Repeats. The folder was empty (removed). Suggestions recorded an episode. The folder didn't appear.


Yeah someone (lpwcomp) already tested this behavior. His reommendation is to just set 1 new show to KUID then you can keep a show's folder in MY Shows and Suggestions will then always be found there. But as you found out there is no guarantee Suggestions records anything.

That gives me another idea Tivo could probably implement fairly easily. Make a 3 Thumbs rated recording record a lot more often to compensate for loss of multiple season passes. OR add a 4 Thumbs rating for that or make use of the green D button and anyhow flagged with that button gets the green light way more often than other shows when it comes to being recorded in Suggestions.


----------



## RoyK

trip1eX said:


> Yeah someone (lpwcomp) already tested this. Just set 1 new show to KUID then you can keep a show's folder in MY Shows and Suggestions will then always be found there. But as you found out there is no guarantee Suggestions records anything.
> 
> That gives me another idea Tivo could probably implement fairly easily. Make a 3 Thumbs rated recording record a lot more often to compensate for loss of multiple season passes. OR add a 4 Thumbs rating for that or make use of the green D button and anyhow flagged with that button gets the green light way more often than other shows when it comes to being recorded in Suggestions.


Or restore the multiple SPs and make everybody (except marketing which will scream that the name is ONEpass) happy,

BTW I just checked and after three days of nothing Margaret's scheme did finally pull in ONE episode of 'How it's Made'


----------



## trip1eX

RoyK said:


> Or restore the multiple SPs and make everybody (except marketing which will scream that the name is ONEpass) happy,


Yeah. I think that goes without saying.


----------



## trip1eX

Check your modified One Passes. 

I changed my Modern Family One Pass to only record on ABC and set the show limit to 5. 

But today I check and the folder still has 10 shows and, so far, it has recorded 8 repeats on USA since the start of the weekend.


And the To Do list still shows MOdern Family episodes on USA to be recorded in the coming days. 

Not sure if this "bug" existed pre-patch or not. 

**************
Also just noticed ABC also air MF repeats at 6:30pm here. So my idea to just record new with a few repeats on ABC that show up at the 8pm Wed time slot and keep only 5 of them won't work. Argh. 

More update annoyance.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> You could use a Wish List for the repeats. If you're specific with the title, and maybe throw in the name of one of the main actors, it should only pick up that show. Not a perfect solution, but it should work better then using Suggestions.


The show I would like to record is showing on four channels, with the repeats I want to record on only one of those channels. So I would end up with many shows being recorded that I do not want.

I have a different suggestion: why not allow the multiple instances of scheduling for a program, each on a different individually-specified channel?

That would allow people to record new episodes with a high priority and long retention in one recording instance, and also record one other channel's reruns with a lower priority and shorter retention in a different instance.


----------



## Dan203

WorldBandRadio said:


> The show I would like to record is showing on four channels, with the repeats I want to record on only one of those channels. So I would end up with many shows being recorded that I do not want.
> 
> I have a different suggestion: why not allow the multiple instances of scheduling for a program, each on a different individually-specified channel?
> 
> That would allow people to record new episodes with a high priority and long retention in one recording instance, and also record one other channel's reruns with a lower priority and shorter retention in a different instance.


If they added a channel selection to WL it would fix the issue.


----------



## HerronScott

Dan203 said:


> If they added a channel selection to WL it would fix the issue.


I agree although I've never set up multiple season passes for the same show in the 14 1/2 years that we've had one. You would think that should not be that difficult to implement (certainly far easier than the OnePass change itself).

Scott


----------



## kturcotte

Having a season/onepass for a show and a wishlist for the same show doesn't work perfectly. Right now my Roamio is recording 2 instances of The Simpsons on Fox-one for the season pass and one for the wishlist.


----------



## L David Matheny

kturcotte said:


> Having a season/onepass for a show and a wishlist for the same show doesn't work perfectly. Right now my Roamio is recording 2 instances of The Simpsons on Fox-one for the season pass and one for the wishlist.


Possible duplication and the fuzzier logic of wishlists are the reasons I've never used them to record, relying instead on proper operation of the sophisticated season pass scheduling logic.


----------



## kturcotte

L David Matheny said:


> Possible duplication and the fuzzier logic of wishlists are the reasons I've never used them to record, relying instead on proper operation of the sophisticated season pass scheduling logic.


I agree, but unfortunately, that's no longer possible


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## kturcotte

nooneuknow said:


> I knew there had to be a hole in the WL idea. I just really wanted to find something that sounded logical and easy, and embrace it, rather than face the wrath of those insisting so many are deliberately ignoring viable workaround scenarios.
> 
> You are right, as the (member performed) test runs show. 1P+WL (or WL+1P) makes for the same channel recording the same thing, at the same time, on the same channel. Asking TiVo to add logic to the WL engine, seems laughable now, and worthy of analogies. But, we know here that will go with the hardcore "TiVo can do no wrong" folk...
> 
> I was searching for my reason why it was I avoided having any ARWLs (but sometimes used the non auto-record ones). This was why.


I'm not a fan of ARWLs either, never have been. This is kind of a work around, but I now I have to babysit my Tivo, whereas before it did everything just fine on it's own.


----------



## murgatroyd

This is going to be a total cluster**** as soon as the baseball season starts.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## RoyK

After four days testing TiVoMargret's workaround the results are:

SVU zero recordings
How it's made one recording 

This was over a period when many episodes of both programs have aired.


----------



## aaronwt

murgatroyd said:


> This is going to be a total cluster**** as soon as the baseball season starts.


What will happen then?

I have several things setup for football that record the Redskins as well as Sunday night, Monday Night, and Thursday Night Football. But One Pass was implemented after programs from those wishlists and SPs were recorded. So I have no idea if the change to OnePass will have any effect.

So far out of my 170+ Season passes I only noticed a couple of programs that were affected. But with the One Pass the recordings have still been the same as before the SPs were combined. But these were also very low priority recordings so I wouldn't notice any difference from before.


----------



## jrtroo

RoyK said:


> After four days testing TiVoMargret's workaround the results are:


It would benefit the thread to note which of her workarounds you used.


----------



## RoyK

jrtroo said:


> It would benefit the thread to note which of her workarounds you used.


This one http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10396434#post10396434

My test setup is detailed a few posts down the thread here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10399370#post10399370

At one time she also suggested recording new plus repeats and setting the new recordings to KUID before they are deleted by recording repeats. It seems that she (correctly) has backed away from that suggestion.


----------



## pattont

This is HUGE problem already when recording PGA Tour Golf. On the weekends the coverage always switches from the golf channel after a couple of hours to CBS. The OnePass is set to All channels and even though it sees the CBS broadcast as "new" it doesn't want to record it automatically because it's already titled something like "Farmers Insurance Open Third Round". 

When I emailed Tivo Support it was like they didn't understand the problem. Obviously, this isn't a problem for the masses, but anyone recording live sports like MLB, Golf, or Basketball is about to be really upset. Good luck recording all of March Madness!!!


----------



## Dan203

RoyK said:


> After four days testing TiVoMargret's workaround the results are:
> 
> SVU zero recordings
> How it's made one recording
> 
> This was over a period when many episodes of both programs have aired.


Suggestions are a terrible way to work around this. They are completely random and you can't guarantee anything specific will be recorded or will stick around.

Try the WL it should work better.


----------



## RoyK

Dan203 said:


> Suggestions are a terrible way to work around this. They are completely random and you can't guarantee anything specific will be recorded or will stick around.
> 
> Try the WL it should work better.


I'm aware of that. What's amazing to me is that Vice President, Design & Engineering, Chief Design Officer, TiVo Inc. apparently isn't.


----------



## Arcady

RoyK said:


> I'm aware of that. What's amazing to me is that Vice President, Design & Engineering, Chief Design Officer, TiVo Inc. apparently isn't.


When she suggested giving it three thumbs up, for a minute I thought that was some secret way to make it record all episodes. They could actually program that in as a backdoor and it might solve a bunch of issues, without making the new OnePass "too confusing" for the apparently dumb TiVo users.


----------



## RoyK

Arcady said:


> When she suggested giving it three thumbs up, for a minute I thought that was some secret way to make it record all episodes. They could actually program that in as a backdoor and it might solve a bunch of issues, without making the new OnePass "too confusing" for the apparently dumb TiVo users.


Maybe it could mean keep at most 3 repeats, 10 thumbs up = 10 repeats, etc.


----------



## murgatroyd

aaronwt said:


> What will happen then?
> 
> I have several things setup for football that record the Redskins as well as Sunday night, Monday Night, and Thursday Night Football. But One Pass was implemented after programs from those wishlists and SPs were recorded. So I have no idea if the change to OnePass will have any effect.
> 
> So far out of my 170+ Season passes I only noticed a couple of programs that were affected. But with the One Pass the recordings have still been the same as before the SPs were combined. But these were also very low priority recordings so I wouldn't notice any difference from before.


I posted a longer post in the TiVo Introduces OnePass  thread.

Short version: when my TiVoHD croaks, if I'm forced to buy a Roamio instead, I forsee a lot more work going through the To Do List and killing stuff I don't want. I'll lose all the flexibility I had with older TiVos by having multiple SPs because I could give different channels priority over others.


----------



## slowbiscuit

kturcotte said:


> I'm not a fan of ARWLs either, never have been. This is kind of a work around, but I now I have to babysit my Tivo, whereas before it did everything just fine on it's own.


They're the only way to go for many sports IMO, because you can filter them down to only get what you want to watch. Racing series are a perfect example, and I never have to babysit any of them because all my WLs only record the races, not practice, qualifying etc. and only the specific series that I want (not some of the subclasses that I don't care about).

ARWLs work great for me, I've probably got 10-12 of them.


----------



## slowbiscuit

pattont said:


> This is HUGE problem already when recording PGA Tour Golf. On the weekends the coverage always switches from the golf channel after a couple of hours to CBS. The OnePass is set to All channels and even though it sees the CBS broadcast as "new" it doesn't want to record it automatically because it's already titled something like "Farmers Insurance Open Third Round".


Yep, not being able to have multiple 1Ps broke PGA Tour Golf recordings for sure - have to babysit them every weekend now for the ARWL I have. This is one case where specific channel ARWLs would fix the problem, assuming that the scheduler will record a new showing on every channel-specific ARWL you have (that's another issue relevant to this problem - both of the PGA Tour events each day say 'Third Round' or 'Final Round' so I'm not sure if the scheduler would record what it thinks is a dupe even if there were two ARWLs, one for each channel).


----------



## WorldBandRadio

I'm just starting to see another undesirable consequence of the OnePass "one channel or all channels" logic...

The show I want to record has reruns on four different channels, in addition to new shows being broadcast. I want to record only one specific rerun channel, as it shows the reruns in sequence.

In order to record both the broadcast and the one channel of reruns, I have to set OnePass to record all channels, and then remove the shows from the ToDo list for the channels I do not want.

What I am starting to notice (now that I've had OnePass for a while) is that the three rerun channels that I do not want to record are making it to the ToDo list, and I remove them. However, since the episodes were on the ToDo list, they will not be recorded on the one channel I want to record because they were on the ToDo list within the last 28 days.

So now, in addition to removing from the ToDo list the episodes I do not want to record from the three other rerun channels, I have to manually go through the Upcoming list and make sure that the channel I do want to record is recording all the shows, and manually add the shows that were skipped because they were "Duplicates". Since the Upcoming list is sketchy, at best, this is not a fun process.

I think I am beginning to get carpal tunnel in my remote-operating fingers due to all the manual effort I need to do now in order just to have some of what the TiVo used to do all by itself.

TiVo is slowly convincing me that they really did not think this OnePass concept through. Either that or TiVo has very little regard for its customers.

The TiVo used to be a smooth-functioning appliance. I told it what to do for me, and it did it. Reliably.

Now, the TiVo seems to me to be more of a recalcitrant child, requiring a lot of hand-holding, direction and *effort*.

The TiVo used to be a welcome addition to my entertainment system. Now it has become an annoyance almost every time I want to use it. Certainly not the way to create repeat customers.....


----------



## csell

WorldBandRadio said:


> The show I want to record has reruns on four different channels, in addition to new shows being broadcast. I want to record only one specific rerun channel, as it shows the reruns in sequence.


This is pretty much what the OP was all about. In my case, the reruns is Law & Order SVU. New episodes are on NBC and reruns are on several different channels, such as TNT and USA (and a few other). This is what I did:

1) Created a OnePass for the New Shows only on a specific channel - NBC.

2) Created a wish list where I specified a Title description where I put in the exact title. I specified New and Repeats (I think, i'm not in front of the tivo right now). I also specified keep 10. I then named the wish list "SVU Reruns".

So now I have two folders - one for the new SVU episodes and another folder named "SVU Reruns" which always contain 10 reruns (and possibly the new episiode from NBC.

What I don't like - since I wasn't able to specify a channel in the wishlist, it seems to always be recording episodes, epsecially at night since reruns are on many channels. Also, the new episodes on NBC also gets recorded which means it gets recorded twice.

If they aren't willing to give us back multiple OnePass for different channels, then simply allows us to specify as specific channel in the Wishlist. That would be very helpful. Also, add "Reruns Only" along with "New Only" and "New and Reruns".


----------



## WorldBandRadio

csell said:


> ... Also, add "Reruns Only" along with "New Only" and "New and Reruns".


btw, I noticed last night that the "Everything" option was removed from the "New Only" and "New and Reruns" options. Although, if you go to History and look at the reason given for "Duplicate", you'll see that "Everything" is still mentioned as an option.


----------



## Diana Collins

csell said:


> ...If they aren't willing to give us back multiple OnePass for different channels, then simply allows us to specify as specific channel in the Wishlist. That would be very helpful. Also, add "Reruns Only" along with "New Only" and "New and Reruns".


In other words, make ARWLs act like Season Passes.


----------



## RoyK

WorldBandRadio said:


> I'm just starting to see another undesirable consequence of the OnePass "one channel or all channels" logic...
> 
> The show I want to record has reruns on four different channels, in addition to new shows being broadcast. I want to record only one specific rerun channel, as it shows the reruns in sequence.
> 
> In order to record both the broadcast and the one channel of reruns, I have to set OnePass to record all channels, and then remove the shows from the ToDo list for the channels I do not want....


How about making your ARWL for New Only and your SP for new and repeats on, say, TNT. I think that might be a better solution for what you are trying to do than the way you have it set. It might, however, result in the recording of a SD version of a new show instead of a HD if that is important unless the ARWL will preferentially record HD if both are available. I have no idea about that.

Unfortunately there are many cases where multiple SPs have been so effectively used that don't lend themselves to this solution.

BTW the score on TiVoMargret's solution is now SVU-0, How Its Made 1 after 5 days. (See up a few posts if you don't know what that is referring to.)


----------



## WorldBandRadio

RoyK said:


> How about making your ARWL for New Only...


Then I'll miss the reruns of the broadcast shows when they are broadcast.

Is there any way to create a wishlist entry for a show that is currently in the guide without having to type in all those keywords and such?

I wasn't kidding about carpal tunnel from the remote....

That is another thing that was nice about the SP, I just clicked on a show in the guide and clicked to create a SP. Quick and easy.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Diana Collins said:


> In other words, make ARWLs act like Season Passes.


That would be an excellent solution.


----------



## RoyK

WorldBandRadio said:


> Then I'll miss the reruns of the broadcast shows when they are broadcast.
> 
> Is there any way to create a wishlist entry for a show that is currently in the guide without having to type in all those keywords and such?
> 
> I wasn't kidding about carpal tunnel from the remote....
> 
> That is another thing that was nice about the SP, I just clicked on a show in the guide and clicked to create a SP. Quick and easy.


I hear you.


----------



## RoyK

Since TiVo's "use suggestions" workaround has failed to record a single episode of SVU and has recorded only the one episode of 'How It's Made' in six days and since I really do enjoy the SVU repeats I'm terminating my test and going back to the two SP configuration that served so well all these years. Might as well use it until One pass nukes it.....


----------



## cherry ghost

RoyK said:


> Since TiVo's "use suggestions" workaround has failed to record a single episode of SVU and has recorded only the one episode of 'How It's Made' in six days and since I really do enjoy the SVU repeats I'm terminating my test and going back to the two SP configuration that served so well all these years. Might as well use it until One pass nukes it.....


Has it been recording Suggestions other than those two shows? How many Thumbs Up do those have?


----------



## RoyK

cherry ghost said:


> Has it been recording Suggestions other than those two shows? How many Thumbs Up do those have?


No suggestions besides those two have been given thumbs up ratings. I am certain of that because I've had the roamio for less than a month and I'm the only user. . Those two each were given three thumbs up. Scads of suggestions have recorded over the six day period. Seventy percent of the hard drive is suggestions.


----------



## Grakthis

csell said:


> I'm a software engineer - trust me, a work-around is not a valid solution. It's a temporary method of providing instructions to replace either broken or suddenly missing functionality until a proper update or patch can be applied that


HOLY **** GUYS!!! THERE'S A SOFTWARE ENGINEER POSTING ON THESE FORUMS?!?! HE MUST BE THE FIRST ONE TO EVER POST HERE!!! GUYS! GUYS DID YOU KNOW THERE WAS A SOFTWARE ENGINEER POSTING HERE!!! DID YOU SEE THIS?!?!

CAN I HAVE YOUR AUTOGRAPH!!!!??????!!!!!!!

No seriously though, Steve Jobs literally said "don't hold it like that" to people. You remember that, right?



> Gee, a thread that evolved from its original theme. Never heard of that happening.


You do that when the original theme is done.

When someone asks for help, don't derail the thread into *****ing about how the help isn't GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU RAWR. Go somewhere else. People here are looking for help.


----------



## Grakthis

nooneuknow said:


> I knew there had to be a hole in the WL idea. I just really wanted to find something that sounded logical and easy, and embrace it, rather than face the wrath of those insisting so many are deliberately ignoring viable workaround scenarios.
> 
> You are right, as the (member performed) test runs show. 1P+WL (or WL+1P) makes for the same channel recording the same thing, at the same time, on the same channel. Asking TiVo to add logic to the WL engine, seems laughable now, and worthy of analogies. But, we know here that will go with the hardcore "TiVo can do no wrong" folk...
> 
> I was searching for my reason why it was I avoided having any ARWLs (but sometimes used the non auto-record ones). This was why.


So, this records double, but it does record? You can just delete the double, right?

It's not ideal, but it sure sounds a lot better than the "three thumbs up" option, right?


----------



## Grakthis

RoyK said:


> After four days testing TiVoMargret's workaround the results are:
> 
> SVU zero recordings
> How it's made one recording
> 
> This was over a period when many episodes of both programs have aired.


You're checking the Suggestions folder, right? Not just looking for folders for those shows?

Do you record a lot of other stuff? I think Suggestions has some fuzzy logic in it for not consuming your tuners when they are needed for other stuff?


----------



## Grakthis

WorldBandRadio said:


> Then I'll miss the reruns of the broadcast shows when they are broadcast.
> 
> Is there any way to create a wishlist entry for a show that is currently in the guide without having to type in all those keywords and such?
> 
> I wasn't kidding about carpal tunnel from the remote....
> 
> That is another thing that was nice about the SP, I just clicked on a show in the guide and clicked to create a SP. Quick and easy.


Yeah... that's a good suggestion. Click on a show and be able to say "create a wish list for shows like this one" and be able to pick the things you want it to look for. Like an actor, or show title, or something. Sort of like Pandora's playlists.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Grakthis said:


> ..No seriously though, Steve Jobs literally said "don't hold it like that" to people. ...


And the question lingers, did those people consider Jobs' quick dismissal of the problem a solution to their problem, or a solution to Jobs' problem?

My guess would be the latter.


----------



## RoyK

Grakthis said:


> You're checking the Suggestions folder, right? Not just looking for folders for those shows?
> 
> Do you record a lot of other stuff? I think Suggestions has some fuzzy logic in it for not consuming your tuners when they are needed for other stuff?


Yes I've been checking the suggestion folder. 
I do record other stuff but I wouldn't say I very often if ever tie up all the tuners. 
It's probably that the scheme only works when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars...


----------



## Grakthis

RoyK said:


> Yes I've been checking the suggestion folder.
> I do record other stuff but I wouldn't say I very often if ever tie up all the tuners.
> It's probably that the scheme only works when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars...


Yeah, I've never used the "thumbs up" to record something, but my first instinct on that suggestion was "are you sure that will work?" Just because suggestions are SO de-prioritized on TiVos. It's just not reliable. I thought maybe they had changed something with this update so that three thumbs ALWAYS got recorded if it was possible... sounds like that's not the case.


----------



## cherry ghost

RoyK said:


> No suggestions besides those two have been given thumbs up ratings. I am certain of that because I've had the roamio for less than a month and I'm the only user. . Those two each were given three thumbs up. Scads of suggestions have recorded over the six day period. Seventy percent of the hard drive is suggestions.


Those are your only three thumbs up, but everything you record gets one thumb up. You can check your thumb ratings at

Find TV, Movies & Videos-->Browse TV & Movies-->TV-->Suggestions-->Enter


----------



## Grakthis

WorldBandRadio said:


> And the question lingers, did those people consider Jobs' quick dismissal of the problem a solution to their problem, or a solution to Jobs' problem?
> 
> My guess would be the latter.


Steve Job's was an engineer, so when he tells you....

etc etc etc.

You get where this joke is going.

Work arounds are often the way a business tells a niche set of customers 'we don't think your needs are important enough for us to change things.' Sometimes there's an implied "right now" and sometimes there isn't. Sometimes they are work-arounds for bugs, sometimes they are work-arounds for things the company never plans to fix.

Customers sometimes want something to work for their specific use case, and that use case is not worth devoting engineer time to, because it's so rare. You spend your time on the 80%.

So even if the niche users aren't happy, it doesn't mean it's a bug or that they will fix it. Sometimes you just accept the work around.


----------



## bradleys

Grakthis said:


> *Work arounds are often the way a business tells a niche set of customers 'we don't think your needs are important enough for us to change things.'* Sometimes there's an implied "right now" and sometimes there isn't. Sometimes they are work-arounds for bugs, sometimes they are work-arounds for things the company never plans to fix.
> 
> Customers sometimes want something to work for their specific use case, and that use case is not worth devoting engineer time to, because it's so rare. You spend your time on the 80%.
> 
> *So even if the niche users aren't happy, it doesn't mean it's a bug or that they will fix it. * Sometimes you just accept the work around.


Very succinct and accurate...


----------



## bellbm

aaronwt said:


> They really need to just have other options with the One Pass. Like have two priority settings for each One Pass. One priority for new shows and one priority for repeats. Then also separate options for the number of shows to keep for new and repeats. And then third, a way to specify which channels you want the One Pass to record from. Like you would have an option of one channel, all channels, or specific selected channels.
> 
> It seems like having these three options would bring back the functionality you had before One Pass was added. Heck they could even go further and have sub folders. With one folder for recordings of new episodes and one folder for repeats


Agree- sounds like a Season Pass type option would work.


----------



## WO312

Grakthis said:


> HOLY **** GUYS!!! THERE'S A SOFTWARE ENGINEER POSTING ON THESE FORUMS?!?! HE MUST BE THE FIRST ONE TO EVER POST HERE!!! GUYS! GUYS DID YOU KNOW THERE WAS A SOFTWARE ENGINEER POSTING HERE!!! DID YOU SEE THIS?!?!
> 
> CAN I HAVE YOUR AUTOGRAPH!!!!??????!!!!!!!
> 
> No seriously though, Steve Jobs literally said "don't hold it like that" to people. You remember that, right?
> 
> You do that when the original theme is done.
> 
> When someone asks for help, don't derail the thread into *****ing about how the help isn't GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU RAWR. Go somewhere else. People here are looking for help.


Somebody upthread said that you had the most annoying posts in this thread. Thanks for proving the point.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Grakthis said:


> ...You get where this joke is going.....


Yup. It was Jobs' way of telling them that he is solving his problem, not theirs.


----------



## RoyK

cherry ghost said:


> Those are your only three thumbs up, but everything you record gets one thumb up. You can check your thumb ratings at
> 
> Find TV, Movies & Videos-->Browse TV & Movies-->TV-->Suggestions-->Enter


I'm not sure what your point is. I know things I record get a thumbs up. All I'm saying is that I set up my test precisely as TiVoMargret said it should be and it flat out doesn't work.

I grant the possibility that suggestions have been changed in the new software in such a way as to make the workaround viable but I'd be willing to wager it hasn't.


----------



## Grakthis

WO312 said:


> Somebody upthread said that you had the most annoying posts in this thread. Thanks for proving the point.


D'aw. You're adorable! You could have just quoted him and said "me too."


----------



## Grakthis

i have a question, I don't have the update with OnePass yet, but isn't the goal of it to record all episodes of the show so you can watch them all in series?

Can't you just say "all channels" and it will get episodes from all the channels until you have all of them from S1 - X?

And then just, delete the ones you've already seen? I feel like this is super obvious and someone has already answered it and explained why it doesn't work. But I can't find it.


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## RoyK

I


Grakthis said:


> HOLY **** GUYS!!! THERE'S A SOFTWARE ENGINEER POSTING ON THESE FORUMS?!?! HE MUST BE THE FIRST ONE TO EVER POST HERE!!! GUYS! GUYS DID YOU KNOW THERE WAS A SOFTWARE ENGINEER POSTING HERE!!! DID YOU SEE THIS?!?!
> 
> CAN I HAVE YOUR AUTOGRAPH!!!!??????!!!!!!!
> 
> No seriously though, Steve Jobs literally said "don't hold it like that" to people. You remember that, right?
> 
> You do that when the original theme is done.
> 
> When someone asks for help, don't derail the thread into *****ing about how the help isn't GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU RAWR. Go somewhere else. People here are looking for help.


Seens to me that cooler heads prevailed at Apple, they acknowledged the problem and provided free fixes to their customers, and Jobs came out of it with his image taking a hit.


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## bellbm

This wouldn't be so bad if we had a choice as to whether or not we upgrade our machine software. I'd be happy staying on the pre- ONE Pass version.


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## Dan203

I would never count on Suggestions that way. I used them for many years, and have seen thousands of threads about them on these forums. No matter what you give thumbs to you can guarantee that specific show will record. The whole point of Suggestions is to give you a variety. It's designed specifically to record shows that are similar to, but not necessarily the same as, the shows you give thumbs to.

WLs are going to be your only option, and as pointed out above even that's not ideal. There is really no way to create the exact functionality you had before the update.


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## Arcady

Grakthis said:


> i have a question, I don't have the update with OnePass yet, but isn't the goal of it to record all episodes of the show so you can watch them all in series?


No, that isn't the point of it. At all.


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## bradleys

Grakthis said:


> i have a question, I don't have the update with OnePass yet, but isn't the goal of it to record all episodes of the show so you can watch them all in series?
> 
> Can't you just say "all channels" and it will get episodes from all the channels until you have all of them from S1 - X?
> 
> And then just, delete the ones you've already seen? I feel like this is super obvious and someone has already answered it and explained why it doesn't work. But I can't find it.


Yes, it is.

You can choose the starting season and select a single or all channels... It can also integrate content from streaming services as well into that mix. So if the show is on Netflix, you can tell it to show you the content starting from Season 3, record only new, recordings and streaming. My shows will then present you content from Season 3 on, and you will have all the old episodes from Netflix and the new episodes as they happen.

One concern several people have is they like to record re-runs from some third tier channel that may need a little padding and that may run a heck of a lot of marathons.

In that case the 24 hour marathon will have the same priority as your New Recordings from a primary channel. Couple that with padding that is often necessary on the 3rd tier channel and you have higher probability of tuner conflict.

This impacts different people in different ways... I do not set up season passes for reruns, I really never have. And if I do, it is generally to catch up a season or two for some specific season and part of the global Season Pass for the show. I did send a recommendation to TiVo suggesting that they allow you to set a lower priority for re-runs vs. new episodes. I don't suspect TiVo to act on it, but I do think it would address the biggest issues.

Also, past seasons of _*most *_of the popular content are available streaming - I would much rather not waste the space, and 1P is awesome for that.

I do get what people are doing - but I really LOVE One Pass!


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## Jonathan_S

Grakthis said:


> i have a question, I don't have the update with OnePass yet, but isn't the goal of it to record all episodes of the show so you can watch them all in series?
> 
> Can't you just say "all channels" and it will get episodes from all the channels until you have all of them from S1 - X?
> 
> And then just, delete the ones you've already seen? I feel like this is super obvious and someone has already answered it and explained why it doesn't work. But I can't find it.


You could. But that approach lacks flexibility.
As one example, say that that Modern Family is your favorite show ever, so you never want to miss a new episode. But you also want the TiVo to record syndicated reruns.
You can, like you suggested, do that by setting up a 1-pass for Modern Family on all channels. But that 1-pass has only a single recording priority. So if you set it to priority 1 (so you never miss a new episode) then a syndicated rerun could cause a conflict with your 2nd highest priority show! [1]

Or say you want to do the same thing with CSI. Well the original is now broadcast on CBS on Sunday nights. Which means during football season you might need up to a 60 minute pad to be sure you got the whole episode. But the reruns don't have that same impact; but padding is also 1 setting for a given 1-pass. So you either risk missing some of a new episode or else you double the space taken by all the reruns. [2]

Then there are other more complicated scenarios where people were using multiple season passes to fine tune more than just which seasons of a show were being recorded.

But all that said, based on how _I'm_ currently using SPs I'm not expecting to get personally hit with any of limitations of 1-pass (as compared to the flexibility you could achieve with multiple-SPs). But I can see they do exist and there aren't even workarounds for some of those new issues.

----------------
[1] Now with 4 or 6 tuners this hopefully still wouldn't often cause a problem; but its unlikely that someone would, if given a choice, assign such a high priority to the reruns
[2] And with 2+ TB disk sizes that might not be the end of the world either; but it's still annoying to lose the flexibility


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> 1P+WL or WL+1P results in more than one tuner being allocated for certain "duplicates", in the way they are being talked about (as in the 1P records on one tuner, while the WL records the same thing, at the same time, on the same channel, on another tuner). If you have enough tuners, and few enough things to record, then it might be better, for what I imagine is a small number of people.


The TiVo scheduler should prevent that. If it doesn't then it's a bug. Unless you have the 1P or WL set to "All with duplicates" the scheduler should prevent multiple copies of the same episode from being recorded ever.


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## Arcady

Dan203 said:


> The TiVo scheduler should prevent that. If it doesn't then it's a bug. Unless you have the 1P or WL set to "All with duplicates" the scheduler should prevent multiple copies of the same episode from being recorded ever.


There is no "all with duplicates" any more. They took it out.


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## Dan203

Arcady said:


> There is no "all with duplicates" any more. They took it out.


Didn't realize that. Is that the default now when you select "new & reruns" or is the option to record duplicates just gone?


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## Arcady

Dan203 said:


> Didn't realize that. Is that the default now when you select "new & reruns" or is the option to record duplicates just gone?


It is just gone.


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## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> Didn't realize that. Is that the default now when you select "new & reruns" or is the option to record duplicates just gone?


Gone - and from my perspective, that is really the intention of OnePass, getting you as much of the series (in series view) as you request.

First off, I get what guys are doing.

That said, you choose a series, you decide from what season to start, you include sources and you watch the tivo build a library for that series... What is the purpose for separating it? Here it is, Walking Dead, season 3 forward - current season recording, past seasons from Netflix.

Or Modern Family, past seasons populated from an overnight marathon on USA Network, current seasons from ABC...

Brilliant!


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## Arcady

bradleys said:


> Or Modern Family, past seasons populated from an overnight marathon on USA Network, current seasons from ABC...


The point is that what you said above will not work. When the marathon comes on USA, it will probably erase the current episode. It will also record some reruns in a marathon instead of other new shows, because everything for that show is now using the priority of the only OnePass.


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## Dan203

Arcady said:


> It is just gone.


OK then if the WL and the 1P are causing two copies of the same episode to record then that's a bug. The scheduler should never record a second copy of an episode if it's still in My Shows or if it was recorded in the last 28 days. It certainly shouldn't allow the exact same episode, on the same channel, to be recorded on two different tuners because it was requested by both a 1P and a WL.


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## RoyK

bradleys said:


> Gone - and from my perspective, that is really the intention of OnePass, getting you as much of the series (in series view) as you request.
> 
> First off, I get what guys are doing.
> 
> That said, you choose a series, you decide from what season to start, you include sources and you watch the tivo build a library for that series... What is the purpose for separating it? Here it is, Walking Dead, season 3 forward - current season recording, past seasons from Netflix.
> 
> Or Modern Family, past seasons populated from an overnight marathon on USA Network, current seasons from ABC...
> 
> Brilliant!


Look we read the blurb on OnePass and understand what it does. What you refuse to take into consideration is:
1. Streaming content costs money. Prime has very limited content and Netflix isn't free. Vudu, Hulu, Non-prime Amazon can really dent the wallet. Most of us are already paying for cable. Why should we have to pay again?

2. By and large streaming video is highly compressed and inferior in quality to cable content.

3. While prime time content is usually available from streaming sources most cable content is not. 
4. Example after example has been given where capabilities users have relied on, like, and have paid for dearly are being removed and no satisfactory replacement provided.


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## bradleys

Arcady said:


> The point is that what you said above will not work. When the marathon comes on USA, it will probably erase the current episode. It will also record some reruns in a marathon instead of other new shows, because everything for that show is now using the priority of the only OnePass.


1P doesn't record duplicates of the show within a series or across channels, who has seen that behavior?

And I have acknowledged that prioritization may be a problem. I haven't actually heard anyone report significant prioritization issues - but it definitely could happen.

The question is how many series are you recording past episodes? Once you capture season 3 through 5 during that USA marathon it never records another repeat of Modern Family. If you decide to start deleting some of those episodes you can change your 1P to only look at ABC or change it to only record new. It really is the marathon showings on third rung channels that have the biggest potention to cause problems.

Both options would work.

I made a recommendation to tivo for a feature that would allow a user to set a different priority for repeats than new shows. I don't expect them to implement it, but if they did it would address most of the issues raised by the community.


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## bradleys

RoyK said:


> Look we read the blurb on OnePass and understand what it does. What you refuse to take into consideration is:
> 1. Streaming content costs money. Prime has very limited content and Netflix isn't free. Vudu, Hulu, Non-prime Amazon can really dent the wallet. Most of us are already paying for cable. Why should we have to pay again?
> 
> 2. By and large streaming video is highly compressed and inferior in quality to cable content.
> 
> 3. While prime time content is usually available from streaming sources most cable content is not.
> 4. Example after example has been given where capabilities users have relied on, like, and have paid for dearly are being removed and no satisfactory replacement provided.


I think you will find most TiVo users have at least one subscription to a streaming service and use it. Do a survey... But Onepass doesn't have to rely on streaming services at all and you don't have to choose to include it even if you have a subscription.

(From my experience Netflix streaming is far better quality than the USA network marathon content anyway)

Yes, a lot of users have complained and given several examples. The one big issue that has the potential to impact a real volume of users is prioritization - that could really bite tivo in the ass. None of the other use cases will generate much of a conversation - sorry.

I am just a guy sitting on a couch - tivo will do what tivo does, but I will bet my house they aren't going to give you SP or multiple 1P back no matter how much you complain.

I do think you could and should argue for additional controls that will address the prioritization and potential for missed first run recordings.


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## bradleys

> No amount of repeating how much somebody loves OnePass, how they don't need options taken away, or how great the shiny new objects are, is going to "bring anybody around" or change that as TiVo *owners* we all have every right to use what worked at the time of purchase, and to feel cheated when it is taken away.


You don't have to love it... But multiple SPs aren't coming back so what is it that you plan to do?

I know I have said this before, but tivo is a corporation with a CE product not a bunch of guys with an open source product.

Can it improve - sure, but this thread isn't going to change anything.

I realize misery loves company, but you guys sure get defensive if anyone posts an opinion that isn't 1P bashing and love on anyone with a complaint no matter how arbitrary or slightly incorrect.


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## RoyK

nooneuknow said:


> If you need to ask all of this, you have not been hearing what anybody has been saying, or doing so in a selective, deliberate, manner, and you've been on this train from the start.
> 
> Anybody who takes the time to repeat matters for you is wasting their time.
> 
> Yes, you presented a possible solution, which you say you have sent to TiVo. That, alone, is not a solution, unless TiVo actually implements it. Until then, if it even happens, you are only pouring salt on others' wounds, while the worst they have done is cast shade and a drop or two of rain on your OnePass love parade.


+1

Mostly agree except the solution he sent to TiVo shows that he doesn't comprehend that the issue involves both priority and channel selection. I don't expect him to. And he still doesn't understand that we are NOT BASHING ONEPASS. We are just protesting the way it has been implemented.


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## bradleys

@nooneuknow - I will happily give you the last word. Accept the fact that tivo is never going to give you back multiple SPs for a moment.

What is it exactly that you do want?


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## bradleys

RoyK said:


> +1
> 
> Mostly agree except the solution he sent to TiVo shows that he doesn't comprehend that the issue involves both priority and channel selection. I don't expect him to. And he still doesn't understand that we are NOT BASHING ONEPASS. We are just protesting the way it has been implemented.


So ask for my solution and multi-select from channel listings... At least it is a rational well presented argument.


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## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> those of us who rely heavily on Get another Season Pass and/or use Record All/Everything, are using our TiVos wrong, doing something asinine, or unnecessarily complicating matters.


I wouldn't go that far, but I'm betting TiVo has data on this and you are in a very small minority.

Assume you had a product that had 1 million users. You wanted to make a change to the core functionality that you think would improve the product for most of them, but to make the change you would have to cripple/remove some functionality of the existing product that only 5% of your users are currently using. Do you...

a) Forget about the idea completely so as not to upset that 5%?

b) Create an elaborate system which retains the old functionality but severely complicates the usability of the new feature?

c) Implement the new feature and assume that you'll lose some/all of that 5% due to dissatisfaction?

TiVo seems to have crunched the numbers and chosen c. We don't actually know how many TiVo users fall into the group that is using multiple SPs like you are, but I'm willing to bet that TiVo knows exactly how many are and they made a conscience decision to accept the loss of those users if they were unhappy with the new functionality.

I'm not saying it was the right or wrong way to go, but if I were in their position I might do the same thing if the number was small enough.


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## RoyK

bradleys said:


> So ask for my solution and multi-select from channel listings... At least it is a rational well presented argument.


Riiiiight. Brilliant!


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## Arcady

Dan203 said:


> We don't actually know how many TiVo users fall into the group that is using multiple SPs like you are, but I'm willing to bet that TiVo knows exactly how many are and they made a conscience decision to accept the loss of those users if they were unhappy with the new functionality.


This is a stretch, but maybe TiVo knew there were X number of users with multiple season passes for the same show, and actually thought 1P would be an improvement for them, without considering the priority and multiple channel issues. They have reversed themselves before. The sheer number of posts about this problem makes me think they at least need to acknowledge it. Just wait til this is out of priority rollout...


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## Dan203

bradleys said:


> So ask for my solution and multi-select from channel listings... At least it is a rational well presented argument.


I think it complicates the system too much. I mean if they wanted to offer all these options for new vs reruns they would have just left multiple SPs in place. It was an easier to visualize solution then all the stuff you've suggested.

Honestly I don't see them changing this at all. Every solution I've seen just seems to complicate the system beyond what TiVo has, historically, tolerated.


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## Dan203

Arcady said:


> They have reversed themselves before.


On what? I've been a TiVo user since v1 of the software and I can't think of a single thing that they've released and then reverted on. There were a few announced features that never made it to fruition, but I can't think of anything that made it this far and then got turned back.


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## Dan203

nooneuknow said:


> As long as TiVo is OK with me (and possibly the rest of that minority) looking for a TiVo exit strategy, that's all logical (your POV on it).
> 
> As much as I don't like the idea of doing HTPCs with WMC, due to WMC being an orphan, I'm crunching numbers, and can afford to go that route, and even throw three lifetime service Roamios into a closet until TiVo loses them as active subscriptions they can count. As miniscule of an effect as that would have, I'd feel like I made my point and made it clearly. I had a unit offline for six months, and TiVo was emailing me all kinds of offers, based on it not calling home.
> 
> The problem I have just realized with lifetime service, is that if I just bail out of club/cult TiVo, only to sell them to somebody else, that keeps their numbers up, and they lose nothing, by losing me.
> 
> Now, if more people realized this, and used the "Stick the TiVos in a closet until TiVo can't count them, then sell" approach, that might get TiVo's attention.
> 
> TiVo is no longer the product I want. I just happens to be what I have, after they ruined it for me.


I completely understand your position. And had I been using my TiVo the same way I might be upset as well. It's a radical shift in the way things work. The only thing I'm not sure is clear from this thread is how many users this really affects. Unhappy users are always the most vocal, so just because there are seemingly a "lot" of people complaining on these forums, doesn't mean they account for a large percentage of the users who have received the software. And of those who are unhappy some may decide that using a WL or Suggestions is a workable solution.

I just can't imagine TiVo didn't think about these potential issues during development, or at the very least encounter complaints during the beta, and already take them into consideration. And as such I can't imagine they're going to halt the update or roll back the functionality because of it.


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## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> I think it complicates the system too much. I mean if they wanted to offer all these options for new vs reruns they would have just left multiple SPs in place. It was an easier to visualize solution then all the stuff you've suggested.
> 
> Honestly I don't see them changing this at all. Every solution I've seen just seems to complicate the system beyond what TiVo has, historically, tolerated.


I agree, I was just trying to make a point.

My origional suggestion was not an attempt to recreate the functionality of multiple SPs, it was meant to addres a potentially valid proritazation problem when using Onepass as it is designed.

Tivo has changed the "perspective" of SP to OP, for most users it will be an improvement of functionality for some it will be a reduction of functionality.

That isn't going to change and tivo absolutely isn't going to reverse course after the resources spent implementing it.


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## bradleys

I don't see it that way, but I accept the criticism. I absolutely see the possibility of a re-run marathon on a third tier channel causing prioritization issues, esspecially if you have to add padding to address the wonky way those channels seem to overlap.

Other then that - it is a change is perspective on how the feature is used. It is going to take time for people to get used to it. It does remove some functionality and adds significantly more (for most users)

We can all come back to this thread in a year and see who is right.


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## Jed1

Dan203 said:


> I wouldn't go that far, but I'm betting TiVo has data on this and you are in a very small minority.
> 
> Assume you had a product that had 1 million users. You wanted to make a change to the core functionality that you think would improve the product for most of them, but to make the change you would have to cripple/remove some functionality of the existing product that only 5% of your users are currently using. Do you...
> 
> a) Forget about the idea completely so as not to upset that 5%?
> 
> b) Create an elaborate system which retains the old functionality but severely complicates the usability of the new feature?
> 
> c) Implement the new feature and assume that you'll lose some/all of that 5% due to dissatisfaction?
> 
> TiVo seems to have crunched the numbers and chosen c. We don't actually know how many TiVo users fall into the group that is using multiple SPs like you are, but I'm willing to bet that TiVo knows exactly how many are and they made a conscience decision to accept the loss of those users if they were unhappy with the new functionality.
> 
> I'm not saying it was the right or wrong way to go, but if I were in their position I might do the same thing if the number was small enough.


You are right on target. This is a tweet from today from TiVo Support about data collection.


> Data is collected when the TiVo box makes a connection. Typically, networks look at recordings watched within 1 week of airing.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/565613840914972674
TiVo has a rapidly growing base of users on their cable operations and a shrinking base of users on its consumer side.
It is in TiVos best interest to appease this base of users than the tiny minority of consumer users.

From my experience with cable TV DVR users, they do not record and archive large volumes of repeats. They mainly record, watch, then delete. Sometimes they leave shows on the DVR that they like but they very rarely ever watch them again.
I basically fit into this category. I have archived some movies using TiVo desktop that is not available on Blu ray or titles that I would like to buy on Blu ray. Once I purchase these titles I delete them.

So yes TiVo is changing as they have to. The path that they were on only resulted in a loss of subscribers. They now have a new base of users they can poll for data and that base is growing.


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## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


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## Jed1

nooneuknow said:


> +1
> 
> TiVo's retail base would probably have been sold-off/wrote-off, if we didn't make such a cost-effective task force, to test things before the MSO overlords pulling TiVo's strings get them, IMO.


And it looks like that maybe changing. Here is a tweet made today by Margret about jobs at TiVo.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/565605461677064194
Here is the list of jobs,
http://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs...category=User Experience, Research, UI Design
Notice that the job for Beta Triage Engineer is a contractor not a full time position.

Then the one for Market Intelligence Analyst.
http://hire.jobvite.com/CompanyJobs...ch,+UI+Design&page=Job Description&j=o2va0fwr



> Provide data-based insights to guide marketing and product organizations. Specific duties include: conducting various statistical analyses and building analytics models using data drawn from diverse sources to guide retention marketing, to forecast sales trends and drive product development and optimization; measuring the effectiveness of marketing, advertising, and communications programs; *performing data mining, analysis, and ad-hoc and dashboard reporting to support product research, sales, market and management teams*; serving as a research and analytics lead to provide guidance on methodologies and defining metrics; reviewing, synopsizing, and presenting market and competitive assessment to management; working with marketers, strategists, product managers, and data warehouse engineers to collaborate on projects; *conducting market research surveys with customers and prospective customers; and analyzing TV viewership data logs for patterns to understand viewership trends for product development.*
> 
> Only applicants with unrestricted US work authorization will be considered


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## realityboy

Dan203 said:


> I wouldn't go that far, but I'm betting TiVo has data on this and you are in a very small minority.
> 
> Assume you had a product that had 1 million users. You wanted to make a change to the core functionality that you think would improve the product for most of them, but to make the change you would have to cripple/remove some functionality of the existing product that only 5% of your users are currently using. Do you...
> 
> a) Forget about the idea completely so as not to upset that 5%?
> 
> b) Create an elaborate system which retains the old functionality but severely complicates the usability of the new feature?
> 
> c) Implement the new feature and assume that you'll lose some/all of that 5% due to dissatisfaction?
> 
> TiVo seems to have crunched the numbers and chosen c. We don't actually know how many TiVo users fall into the group that is using multiple SPs like you are, but I'm willing to bet that TiVo knows exactly how many are and they made a conscience decision to accept the loss of those users if they were unhappy with the new functionality.
> 
> I'm not saying it was the right or wrong way to go, but if I were in their position I might do the same thing if the number was small enough.


I agree that it most likely only affects a small percentage, but I'm not sure that Tivo would've had the info to know that. Sure, they have the info about how many people have duplicate season passes, but they have no way to know if that's deliberate or because up until fairly recently that was the only way to get repeats or even new episodes on a different channel.


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## Dan203

realityboy said:


> I agree that it most likely only affects a small percentage, but I'm not sure that Tivo would've had the info to know that. Sure, they have the info about how many people have duplicate season passes, but they have no way to know if that's deliberate or because up until fairly recently that was the only way to get repeats or even new episodes on a different channel.


If that's the case then the number being effected by OnePass would be even lower.


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## realityboy

Dan203 said:


> If that's the case then the number being effected by OnePass would be even lower.


I agree with that. I just don't think the number of people with duplicate season passes was necesarily low, but the number that will have problems because of it is low. Basically Tivo had to guess, and they seem to have guessed correctly.


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## Diana Collins

So, I've read this whole thread and while I confess the changes that OnePass has brought don't effect anyone here, I do understand the issue for others.

I keep coming back in my mind to what TiVo had in mind when they designed OnePass. It seems to me that if the goal was to integrate OTT content with recorded content and be able to build entire series libraries that spanned all sources of that content, then they didn't really need to change Season passes at all. It seems to me that the goal could have been accomplished by just implementing the change in the Folders. It was mixing in the folder content options with the recording process that made it complicated and lead to elimination of the Season Pass functionality under discussion.

The real user benefit of OnePass is how the results are displayed, not how the recordings get done - or am I missing something?


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## RoyK

Diana Collins said:


> So, I've read this whole thread and while I confess the changes that OnePass has brought don't effect anyone here, I do understand the issue for others.
> 
> I keep coming back in my mind to what TiVo had in mind when they designed OnePass. It seems to me that if the goal was to integrate OTT content with recorded content and be able to build entire series libraries that spanned all sources of that content, then they didn't really need to change Season passes at all. It seems to me that the goal could have been accomplished by just implementing the change in the Folders. It was mixing in the folder content options with the recording process that made it complicated and lead to elimination of the Season Pass functionality under discussion.
> 
> The real user benefit of OnePass is how the results are displayed, not how the recordings get done - or am I missing something?


You have hit the nail squarely on the head .


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## csell

I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread, but anyway:

Thought I'd share my results after a week of using the new method. To record new SVUs and repeats, I did the following -

1) A OnePass for "New Only" Of SVU on a specific channel.
2) A wish list with a title description of "Law Order SVU" with "New and Reruns". Labeled it "SVU Reruns:.

Results:
Was going well until last night. A folder now shows up under My Shows called "SVU Reruns" with just all of the reruns" - not bad. And then another folder for the new "Law & Order: SVU". Last night a new episode of SVU was on and I noticed it recording under both folders (as expected). So during the show, I went into the "SVU Reruns" and stopped recording the episodes as it was also being recorded under the other folder. Well stopping it caused it to stop recording in BOTH folder. So I then had to restart recording it..... Next problem - I noticed since then, the SVU folder from the OnePass (Which is marked as "New Only" is now populated with all of the repeats as well. So I now have two folder with the identical shows. Now this is a bug as the OnePass is marked as New Only.

Conclusion - this 'alternate solution' worked for a while but is now messed up.


----------



## csell

Diana Collins said:


> The real user benefit of OnePass is how the results are displayed, not how the recordings get done - or am I missing something?


I don't totally agree - To go along with what you said, OnePass has taken away the flexibility that the Season Pass used to have. OnePass can not be customized as much (or at all) like the Season Pass could be.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

RoyK said:


> Look we read the blurb on OnePass and understand what it does. What you refuse to take into consideration is:
> 1. Streaming content costs money. Prime has very limited content and Netflix isn't free. Vudu, Hulu, Non-prime Amazon can really dent the wallet. Most of us are already paying for cable. Why should we have to pay again?
> 
> 2. By and large streaming video is highly compressed and inferior in quality to cable content.
> 
> 3. While prime time content is usually available from streaming sources most cable content is not.
> 4. Example after example has been given where capabilities users have relied on, like, and have paid for dearly are being removed and no satisfactory replacement provided.


It looks like he considers us a bunch of rerun-watching lamers who need to get a life.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10388931#post10388931
just because we used the functionality of the TiVo in a manner it was designed.

Oddly, most of the TV content on Netflix is also reruns, and Netflix wouldn't stream the reruns if there weren't a demand for it (they've told me as much).

I am still of the opinion that TiVo didn't think through all the ramifications of this OnePass design. Or maybe they did think it through, and now we just have to watch and wait to see what will be the next feature that TiVo is going to remove from its software.

If the latter, I have to wonder how long it will be before the TiVo is nothing more than a vanilla DVR/streamer, one of many on the market. With TiVo's customer service record, how will it compete when it has no competitive advantage?

"To gain competitive advantage you have to do what no one else is doing or do whatever it is they're doing so much better than they are, that you're doing what no one else is doing anyway. The herd only provides the illusion of well-being."


----------



## WorldBandRadio

nooneuknow said:


> +1
> 
> It's going full circle back to (with a certain member, or three) why we should just adapt to love OnePass, and somehow those of us who rely heavily on Get another Season Pass and/or use Record All/Everything, are using our TiVos wrong, doing something asinine, or unnecessarily complicating matters.
> 
> ....


+1


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> I wouldn't go that far, but I'm betting TiVo has data on this and you are in a very small minority. .....


One option you didn't mention is that TiVo has the data, analyzed it, and came to the incorrect conclusion that, for the people using multiple Season Passes, the OnePass would do what the multiple Season Passes were doing.

I remain to be convinced that TiVo knew beforehand all of the ramifications of OnePass among its customers, especially since TiVo seems to have been on the complete defensive ever since it was released.


----------



## Dan203

csell said:


> I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread, but anyway:
> 
> Thought I'd share my results after a week of using the new method. To record new SVUs and repeats, I did the following -
> 
> 1) A OnePass for "New Only" Of SVU on a specific channel.
> 2) A wish list with a title description of "Law Order SVU" with "New and Reruns". Labeled it "SVU Reruns:.
> 
> Results:
> Was going well until last night. A folder now shows up under My Shows called "SVU Reruns" with just all of the reruns" - not bad. And then another folder for the new "Law & Order: SVU". Last night a new episode of SVU was on and I noticed it recording under both folders (as expected). So during the show, I went into the "SVU Reruns" and stopped recording the episodes as it was also being recorded under the other folder. Well stopping it caused it to stop recording in BOTH folder. So I then had to restart recording it..... Next problem - I noticed since then, the SVU folder from the OnePass (Which is marked as "New Only" is now populated with all of the repeats as well. So I now have two folder with the identical shows. Now this is a bug as the OnePass is marked as New Only.
> 
> Conclusion - this 'alternate solution' worked for a while but is now messed up.


That's actually how it's supose to work. Under the old system it worked the same way. Anything recorded by a WL would always show up in both a special WL folder and the folder for the series. It also did this with Amazon downloads. They would show up in both the series folder and a special Amazon folder. This is also true of the HD folder which contains every HD recording on your TiVo which are also all listed in their respective series folder.

You have to think of folders on a TiVo more like a filter then an actual folder. Just like the left hand filter options they're just filtering the My Shows list to show a specific series or a speciifc WL. They're not physical folders like on a computer.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Diana Collins said:


> ...The real user benefit of OnePass is how the results are displayed, not how the recordings get done - or am I missing something?


The benefit is how the results are displayed. The detriment is how the recordings are done (or not done).


----------



## Dan203

WorldBandRadio said:


> I remain to be convinced that TiVo knew beforehand all of the ramifications of OnePass among its customers, especially since TiVo seems to have been on the complete defensive ever since it was released.


I'm sure they knew beforehand that it would affect some of it's customers and they made a decision that those customers would either find an acceptable workaround or they would be lost. I'm assuming the number affected was low because I can't imagine they'd take that gamble if this affected a large percentage of their customers.


----------



## RoyK

WorldBandRadio said:


> One option you didn't mention is that TiVo has the data, analyzed it, and came to the incorrect conclusion that, for the people using multiple Season Passes, the OnePass would do what the multiple Season Passes were doing.
> 
> I remain to be convinced that TiVo knew beforehand all of the ramifications of OnePass among its customers, especially since TiVo seems to have been on the complete defensive ever since it was released.


You would be on the defensive too if you made the decision that the best way to implement the added functionality was to rip into Season Pass software that had been written and finely honed over many years at the cost of thousands of man hours then the first thing after it released felt the need to suggest a workaround for some of what was broken in the process. The fact that the workaround doesn't come close to even working not withstanding.


----------



## trip1eX

It is really annoying. 

I have to say it has me thinking about a Tivo alternative. This change has definitely made the Tivo name drop in my eyes. It just says this is the end to me of Tivo as a cable dvr.

I had to change 6 season passes. And do without some reruns or now have to manually check on some of them...

ON top of it, some of the season passes I changed didn't change!!!! The UI says they are changed, but their behavior says otherwise. IT's still the same.

So I guess I have to delete them and create new ones.

And I haven't used the OnePass stuff at all. I'm finding it all too busy for my UI tastes too. And then if your kid used NEtflix last you can't stream a show anyway from the Tivo UI without going into the Netflix UI and changing profiles. 

Really if Tivo would have just served up a link in the show folder to the show on Netflix or Amazon etc that would have been enough for me. 

And then the whole sports recording thing. I haven't been hit by that yet thankfully. But I know it's just a matter of time.

Still I adapted and just have done without some reruns or resorted to manually checking on a couple show folders everyone few days. PRobably will setup a few manual recordings soon enough.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> I'm sure they knew beforehand that it would affect some of it's customers and they made a decision that those customers would either find an acceptable workaround or they would be lost. I'm assuming the number affected was low because I can't imagine they'd take that gamble if this affected a large percentage of their customers.


I'm not convinced of that. I agree they would not *knowingly* take that gamble, but what if they did not see it as a gamble? Data have been incorrectly analyzed before.

If it were as you say, then TiVo would have had a better handle on the workarounds, instead of the current "see what sticks" method.

I would agree they knew that there were some using multiple season passes, but I would disagree about TiVo knowing all of the ramifications of the change.

For example, I think TiVo may have known about the 28-day duplicate issue with the Onepass, but they may have ascribed it to the positive side of things, thought it to be a feature of the OnePass.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

trip1eX said:


> It is really annoying. ... Still I adapted and just have done without some reruns or resorted to manually checking on a couple show folders everyone few days. PRobably will setup a few manual recordings soon enough.


I'm finding myself doing a lot of manual effort to see whether the episodes I want are going to be recorded.

The effort is made much more difficult than it has to be by several factors, not the least of which is the crap-shoot known as the Upcoming shows list.

Sometimes shows on the list that will be recorded are marked as such, sometimes not.

Sometimes the Upcoming shows list goes out for two weeks, sometimes it only goes out 8 or 9 days.


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> It is really annoying.
> 
> I have to say it has me thinking about a Tivo alternative. This change has definitely made the Tivo name drop in my eyes. It just says this is the end to me of Tivo as a cable dvr.


I think that is an interesting point... Is there another option that offers the flexibility of multiple season passes? Something that would provide you the fine tuning in scheduling that is now missing in TiVo?


----------



## bradleys

WorldBandRadio said:


> I'm finding myself doing a lot of manual effort to see whether the episodes I want are going to be recorded.
> 
> The effort is made much more difficult than it has to be by several factors, not the least of which is the crap-shoot known as the Upcoming shows list.
> 
> Sometimes shows on the list that will be recorded are marked as such, sometimes not.
> 
> Sometimes the Upcoming shows list goes out for two weeks, sometimes it only goes out 8 or 9 days.


How many conflicts have you identified? Under what scenarios?


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> I think that is an interesting point... Is there another option that offers the flexibility of multiple season passes? Something that would provide you the fine tuning in scheduling that is now missing in TiVo?


That is no longer a consideration when discussing Tivo alternatives.


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> That is no longer a consideration when discussing Tivo alternatives.


Baby with the bath water - got it!


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> I think that is an interesting point... Is there another option that offers the flexibility of multiple season passes? Something that would provide you the fine tuning in scheduling that is now missing in TiVo?


Well if TiVo no longer offers that flexibility then it really matters a lot less that it's competitors might not have it.


----------



## lpwcomp

While not there yet, it seems to me that TiVos attitude is moving closer to see figure one.


----------



## Grakthis

bradleys said:


> Yes, it is.
> 
> You can choose the starting season and select a single or all channels... It can also integrate content from streaming services as well into that mix. So if the show is on Netflix, you can tell it to show you the content starting from Season 3, record only new, recordings and streaming. My shows will then present you content from Season 3 on, and you will have all the old episodes from Netflix and the new episodes as they happen.
> 
> One concern several people have is they like to record re-runs from some third tier channel that may need a little padding and that may run a heck of a lot of marathons.
> 
> In that case the 24 hour marathon will have the same priority as your New Recordings from a primary channel. Couple that with padding that is often necessary on the 3rd tier channel and you have higher probability of tuner conflict.
> 
> This impacts different people in different ways... I do not set up season passes for reruns, I really never have. And if I do, it is generally to catch up a season or two for some specific season and part of the global Season Pass for the show. I did send a recommendation to TiVo suggesting that they allow you to set a lower priority for re-runs vs. new episodes. I don't suspect TiVo to act on it, but I do think it would address the biggest issues.
> 
> Also, past seasons of _*most *_of the popular content are available streaming - I would much rather not waste the space, and 1P is awesome for that.
> 
> I do get what people are doing - but I really LOVE One Pass!


Tuner conflicts? With 4 tuners? That basically would require 2 channels both running marathons and both having overruns, right? And that's assuming you don't have 6 tuners (come on man, it's 2015! Get 6 tuners!). And then they have to conflict with a channel running a new episode. And you can still get around this by hitting your to-do list and manually canceling stuff, right?

I don't know, this doesn't seem like a real issue to me? Not one that is likely to come up on a Roamio.


----------



## Grakthis

Jonathan_S said:


> But that 1-pass has only a single recording priority. So if you set it to priority 1 (so you never miss a new episode) then a syndicated rerun could cause a conflict with your 2nd highest priority show! [1]


Only if you run out of tuners though, right? And if that episode doesn't have a rerun somewhere.

That just doesn't seem super likely.



> Or say you want to do the same thing with CSI. Well the original is now broadcast on CBS on Sunday nights. Which means during football season you might need up to a 60 minute pad to be sure you got the whole episode. But the reruns don't have that same impact; but padding is also 1 setting for a given 1-pass. So you either risk missing some of a new episode or else you double the space taken by all the reruns. [2]


Ah, ok, now I see a problem. Yeah, so you can't add padding to just ONE recording? That definitely is a thing. Ok, i'm on board now.

So you need to be able to say "if it airs on Sunday, add padding" or similar.


----------



## Grakthis

nooneuknow said:


> +1
> 
> It's going full circle back to (with a certain member, or three) why we should just adapt to love OnePass, and somehow those of us who rely heavily on Get another Season Pass and/or use Record All/Everything, are using our TiVos wrong, doing something asinine, or unnecessarily complicating matters.
> 
> No amount of repeating how much somebody loves OnePass, how they don't need options taken away, or how great the shiny new objects are, is going to "bring anybody around" or change that as TiVo *owners* we all have every right to use what worked at the time of purchase, and to feel cheated when it is taken away.
> 
> It's not like we are talking about how TiVo supported Blockbuster video, and now that is gone (not taken away by TiVo, but by what happened to Blockbuster). Some still griped at TiVo for that, just because it was on the TiVo Premiere packaging as a feature, and felt cheated. Not the same thing.
> 
> I hate to go legal, but is there not some precedent for lost value here? I don't care how much they added, or improved upon, if I don't want or need it, and never asked for it (nor did it factor into my purchase decision). So what if I have Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Amazon Prime, right now? That could change tomorrow, and I'd have a nearly empty TiVo, if I leaned on the streaming crutch too heavily.
> 
> I was just doing some SP maintenance, and realized that *even by adding another TiVo, I can't make up for the loss of Record All/Everything* (with repeats). I will no longer be able to let my Supernatural syndicate channel just record everything, and be able to select which repeats to keep, and which to discard, due to sports/news/signal issues/bad guide data/etc.
> 
> Is Supernatural on Netflix? Yes. Will it always be there? No. I learned that the hard way, with several other series I had recorded, but deleted once on Netflix.
> 
> Is it just Supernatural that I'm so concerned about, and make use of what options/features I do with? No. It's just the most robust example I have to present, so that's what I always lead with.
> 
> I often let my TiVo record a whole season of something new before watching, as well as often not thinking I'd have interest in something, only to realize that I do, when Season X is already on, and the past seasons are held for ransom as rent/buy only.


So you just came here to *****, not to spitball ideas? Great. What's important is that you're clicking "post" even if you have nothing to add.

edit: great, I just posted to ***** about you posting. Now it's just *****ing all the way down. Thread ruined.


----------



## RoyK

Grakthis said:


> Only if you run out of tuners though, right? And if that episode doesn't have a rerun somewhere.
> 
> That just doesn't seem super likely.
> 
> Ah, ok, now I see a problem. Yeah, so you can't add padding to just ONE recording? That definitely is a thing. Ok, i'm on board now.
> 
> So you need to be able to say "if it airs on Sunday, add padding" or similar.


That would be easily handled (pre OnePass) by one SP for new only on CBS with a 60 minute bufferand a second SP for repeats with no buffer (and probably a lower p/riority).No more.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## Jonathan_S

Grakthis said:


> Ah, ok, now I see a problem. Yeah, so you can't add padding to just ONE recording? That definitely is a thing. Ok, i'm on board now.
> 
> So you need to be able to say "if it airs on Sunday, add padding" or similar.


Well you could. But you'd have to do it by going into the todo list and adjusting each Sunday's airing. (Which also makes it a manual recording and breaks it loose from the keep at most limit; which you may or may not want).

The KAM limit is another thing affected by this merging of SPs. You used to be able to say keep 5 syndicated repeats, but keep all new episodes

Before 1-pass each SP had separate settings for:
* Channel
* Recording Priority
* New Only, New & Repeats, All (Including Duplicates)/Everything
* Keep at most
* Keep Until
* Get in HD if possible (only applied to multi-channel SPs)
* Padding (early and/or late)
Now you only get one set of those for an entire 1-pass, even if it's replacing multiple SPs.

And of course as people here have mentioned, by setting several SPs, instead of one for "all channels" you could pick exactly which channels you wanted to record from.

All that potential flexibility has been dropped with the elimination of the option for multiple passes per show. 
That said it's flexibility that, personally, I didn't currently need. Virtually all my SPs are new only, one channel, keep all - with a couple that are repeats, one channel, keep all. But I can still see that the flexibility has been reduced.

Although I never did this, it also occurs to me that one more thing you could use multiple SPs for is to grab reruns only from premium channels; without getting the edited for TV versions (with their commercial breaks added) from regular cable syndication. (Just set up a new & repeat SP on each HBO, or each Showtime, or each Starz, etc channel you receive)


----------



## astrohip

WorldBandRadio said:


> I remain to be convinced that TiVo knew beforehand all of the ramifications of OnePass among its customers, especially since* TiVo seems to have been on the complete defensive ever since it was released*.


I'm not sure where you get "complete defensive" from? Margret has made a single suggestion* for a work-around for those who lost the multi-SP feature. She's repeated that single suggestion maybe twice. I haven't seen a single other response from TiVo on this.

~~~~~~

There remains the slim possibility that a future release could add some functionality that may help multi-SP users. Channel specific WL, or some other tweak. TiVo has made updates before that have seen tweaks and improvements as they get feedback. I don't say this to give false hope, but to remind that nothing is ever cast in stone with software. And that we shouldn't ever assume.

I've stayed out of these threads for a while, since basically there has been no new content where I could contribute fresh thoughts, just the same complaints over & over. But I will say that those whose vitriolic bile has them leaving TiVo or hiding them in closets should remember the old adage about babies and bathwaters. Or noses and faces. TiVo has made changes I have disagreed with**. And not made some that seemed so obvious on the face. But I've yet to find a better DVR.


*admittedly a poor, close to useless, work-around

**for example, I believe I will lament the loss of "Record Everything" far more than I will multi-SPs


----------



## Grakthis

Jonathan_S said:


> Before 1-pass each SP had separate settings for:
> * Recording Priority
> * New Only, New & Repeats, All (Including Duplicates)/Everything
> * Keep at most
> * Keep Until
> * Get in HD if possible (only applied to multi-channel SPs)
> * Padding (early and/or late)


So, here is what I find compelling.

*priority
*keep at most
*padding

The rest of those are things I would, as an engineer, dismiss as "get over it." They aren't significant loses, can be worked around, and don't impact 90% of users. The worst case for some of those is that the user does a little more work.

Those three above though seem like legitimate loss of functionality for which there is no comfortable work around.

The priority one, while I recognize it's a legit thing, doesn't have a good UI fix. There's just no good way to do this that is intuitive. Plus "throw more tuners at it" is a valid fix for that. So i don't see that one getting fixed. But a 6 tuner DVR and record fewer things, I guess.

The KAM and Padding ones seem like problems that could be fixed. Just give a separate KAM setting for "new" vs "reruns" (I can envision a UI that does this elegantly) and provide a list of upcoming recordings where you can edit one, change the padding, and choose "use these settings for all future recordings of this show on this channel." Also seems implementable in a clean clear UI.


----------



## uw69

Is the new update still rolling out to Roamio users or has it been stopped?


----------



## bradleys

uw69 said:


> Is the new update still rolling out to Roamio users or has it been stopped?


Why would it have stopped? They had to make it through the Priority list first giving them a full test at load and then clear for general release.

I am not sure if they have started the general release yet, if not, it should be soon.

I finally got my Mini, yesterday I think - and it was on the Priority list.


----------



## RoyK

uw69 said:


> Is the new update still rolling out to Roamio users or has it been stopped?


I've been keeping up with posts and haven't seen anything to indicate that it has been stopped.


----------



## Dan203

WorldBandRadio said:


> I'm not convinced of that. I agree they would not *knowingly* take that gamble, but what if they did not see it as a gamble? Data have been incorrectly analyzed before.
> 
> If it were as you say, then TiVo would have had a better handle on the workarounds, instead of the current "see what sticks" method.
> 
> I would agree they knew that there were some using multiple season passes, but I would disagree about TiVo knowing all of the ramifications of the change.


Perhaps, but if that's the case and this really is as big of an issue as you seem to think then I'm guessing the person in charge of that analysis is going to end up being fired.

However I still don't think that's the case. I think you're projecting your personal frustrations, and those read in this thread, out to a much wider audience then they actually apply to.

Heck I read a stat recently that said something like 80% of DVR users still mainly watch live TV. So the majority of users probably aren't using their TiVos like you or me.


----------



## RoyK

Dan203 said:


> Perhaps, but if that's the case and this really is as big of an issue as you seem to think then I'm guessing the person in charge of that analysis is going to end up being fired.
> 
> However I still don't think that's the case. I think you're projecting your personal frustrations, and those read in this thread, out to a much wider audience then they actually apply to.
> 
> Heck I read a stat recently that said something like 80% of DVR users still mainly watch live TV. So the majority of users probably aren't using their TiVos like you or me.


You may be right. I've read that 41% don't know who the vice president is. I don't know the numbers however I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of dvr users aren't using TiVo and those who do go out and purchase them and pay the lifetime or monthly fee use them far differently from those that got them thrown in when their cable or satellite systems were installed.


----------



## Dan203

One thing we have to remember is that TiVo also sells these to cable companies who throw them in with their installs, so their feature choices have to take those users into account too. In fact I'm pretty sure that RCN has been one of the only reasons the Premiere software has kept pace with the Roamio and a driving force behind features like dynamic tuner allocation on the Mini, getting more screens transitioned to the HDUI, and a few others.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

Frankly I am getting more and more happy with the OnePass functionality. And the biggest benefit is will come over time as it deploys out to all Roamio's and Premieres!

Eventually you will get tired of complaining and I will still be enjoying the product!

Another good rumor is Plex availability via Opera in April...


----------



## Dan203

I'm an avid watcher, and subscriber, to many of the VOD services and I could take it or leave it. It's nice to have the option to add streaming shows, like House of Cards, to my list and have it pop to the top when the new season goes live but the lack of integration with the apps makes it less useful then it initially appeared. There is no progress indicator for streaming shows, no automatic purge of shows that you've already watched via a streaming service, no automatic import of the "my list" in Netflix or Vudu. All of those I think would make it significantly more useful. As it is now it's basically like setting a reminder for when my favorite original programming returns.


----------



## bradleys

Dan, I agree that OnePass could use tighter integration with the streaming services. 

I am hoping they implement some enhancements in the future. It might be interesting to see if it is possible for the community to develop a mechanism to manage the streaming folder - not sure if it is possible.

Netflix has locked down its API connection to only a select few partners - did that fact limit / slow down the integration? No idea...


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

If they do.... I hope I will consider the big picture and constructively discuss my displeasure, possible options as well as the benefits of the change. 

I have said, several times, that I get it... I just don't understand the level of vitrrial.

My biggest concern is new customers and users who haven't received the update yet getting worked up over something that most likely won't impact them. 

Success and growth of tivo is important, if only for another option to MSO rentals. This forum is important for an open conversation. However, it is also an important research tool for prospective tivo customers.

I understand, you don't want any dissenting opinions in this thread.


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## nooneuknow

[redacted by nooneuknow]


----------



## bradleys

MSO partners are a significant growth market for tivo and I am very happy they are expanding into that market. However, retail is important as well - for the revenue it generates, the exposure as a CE device it brings and as a market that can tolerate rapid enhancements.

If tivo were abandoning retail, they wouldn't have introduced the OTA or the MEGA TiVo's. They wouldn't even have produced the base tivo with OTA capabilities.

If tivo were abandoning retail, they wouldn't be focussing on the streaming services as aggressively as they are.

No, I think the death of the retail market is greatly exaggerated. Split focus? Sure, but still important.


----------



## csell

One more update in which I do believe this is a bug....

As stated before, I have a OnePass for only NEW L&O SVU and a wishlist for New and Repeats for the title NEW L&O SVU. with the wish list being named "SVU Reruns"... I know have THREE folders on My Shows list. One is for the regular L&O SVU and now I have TWO folders, both named SVU Reruns. I have to imagine this is a bug as I can't see any reason why a second wishlist folder would have been generated.


----------



## bradleys

csell said:


> One more update in which I do believe this is a bug....
> 
> As stated before, I have a OnePass for only NEW L&O SVU and a wishlist for New and Repeats for the title NEW L&O SVU. with the wish list being named "SVU Reruns"... I know have THREE folders on My Shows list. One is for the regular L&O SVU and now I have TWO folders, both named SVU Reruns. I have to imagine this is a bug as I can't see any reason why a second wishlist folder would have been generated.


Are the reruns coming from different channels? That would be annoying...


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> Baby with the bath water - got it!


You understand my reply like you understood the lack of multiple season passes. 

This post sums it up better than I can.



RoyK said:


> Well if TiVo no longer offers that flexibility then it really matters a lot less that it's competitors might not have it.


----------



## Dan203

csell said:


> One more update in which I do believe this is a bug....
> 
> As stated before, I have a OnePass for only NEW L&O SVU and a wishlist for New and Repeats for the title NEW L&O SVU. with the wish list being named "SVU Reruns"... I know have THREE folders on My Shows list. One is for the regular L&O SVU and now I have TWO folders, both named SVU Reruns. I have to imagine this is a bug as I can't see any reason why a second wishlist folder would have been generated.


That sounds like a bug. Try rebooting, it might fix it.


----------



## RoyK

csell said:


> One more update in which I do believe this is a bug....
> 
> As stated before, I have a OnePass for only NEW L&O SVU and a wishlist for New and Repeats for the title NEW L&O SVU. with the wish list being named "SVU Reruns"... I know have THREE folders on My Shows list. One is for the regular L&O SVU and now I have TWO folders, both named SVU Reruns. I have to imagine this is a bug as I can't see any reason why a second wishlist folder would have been generated.


By any chance did you make some change to your WL?

I tried a similar setup when fishing for a workaround and created a WL. After a day or two I decided I didn't like it so I deleted the WL. To my surprise the WL continued to record programs for quite a few days. What I guess happened was that when the WL was created the guide was searched for matching programs and those found were marked to record by the WL but deleting the WL didn't undo the marking and they continued to record until the guide data was obsolete. I can't think of any other explanation.

If that is what happened it might be that if you change a wish list it will go out and mark programs for recording again with the changed WL.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> Perhaps, but if that's the case and this really is as big of an issue as you seem to think then I'm guessing the person in charge of that analysis is going to end up being fired.
> 
> However I still don't think that's the case. I think you're projecting your personal frustrations, and those read in this thread, out to a much wider audience then they actually apply to.
> 
> Heck I read a stat recently that said something like 80% of DVR users still mainly watch live TV. So the majority of users probably aren't using their TiVos like you or me.


Firing someone is rather drastic. Besides, I don't think it was a single person, it was probably a meeting. Was it a long meeting? Was the meeting going on for so long, that a bad decision was made just to end the meeting? I've been in more than a few meetings like that. But moving away from that...

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

In the world of market research there is a natural tendency that should be fought continuously. That is the tendency to distill intent from action. Let me give you a simple example.

In another thread I mentioned that I wind up on the Discovery Bar frequently. Now, the telemetry from my TiVo would show that I often land on the Discovery Bar (that's my action). Someone looking at that data could assume that I find the Discovery Bar useful because I land on it so much. However, what the telemetry does not show is that I did not intend to use the Discovery Bar. Indeed, I find it a waste of screen real estate and would like the ability to turn it off. I land on it frequently due to an design error in the TiVo UI, not because I intend to use it.

So the person looking at the telemetry from my TiVo could come to the wrong conclusion about how I use my TiVo.

I've seen many wrong conclusions such as that in the market research field. Sometimes when you're analyzing data, you see what you want to see because you try to assume intent when all the data show is action.

That's why I am not convinced TiVo's conclusions are correct. All this "small audience" stuff may be the usual _after the fact_ attempts to justify what may be a incorrect decision.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> ... All of those I think would make it significantly more useful. ....


I know you were talking about VOD services in your message. but if I may toss out for discussion something that might make the OnePass more useful, without requiring a full reversion to the Season Pass....

Reading through the threads, it seems that one of the bigger issues with the OnePass is that it is either a single channel or all channels.

What if the OP channel selection field had values you moved through like "All, Channel1, Channel2, Channel3, Channel4, Select Custom"

The UI element would be the same as it is now, with the addition of the "Select Custom" value. If you picked Select Custom, you would go to a screen that showed vertically a list of each of the channels (Channel1 through Channel4, as above) in a UI similar to the Settings - Channel List.

The user could then put a check mark next to the channels she/he would want included in the OnePass.

Benefits: aside from resolving one of the issues with OnePass, it would use a UI element the user is already familiar with, the channel list selector.

Downside: it still doesn't resolve the different priority or padding issues.


----------



## Dan203

That was suggested up thread. Along with separate priority and KAM options for new vs repeats. However I don't think TiVo would add something like that as it would make the setup too complicated and they have historically been adverse to adding options when it increased complexity.


----------



## lpwcomp

It would be spectacularly silly to have multiple priorities within a single One Pass as opposed to restoring the ability to have multiple (whatever) passes for the same series. I would think it would only be necessary to limit it to a single pass per series that includes streaming options. Lest I be misunderstood, I mean you could have multiple passes for a series but only one of them could include the streaming options.


----------



## aaronwt

WorldBandRadio said:


> Firing someone is rather drastic. Besides, I don't think it was a single person, it was probably a meeting. Was it a long meeting? Was the meeting going on for so long, that a bad decision was made just to end the meeting? I've been in more than a few meetings like that. But moving away from that...
> 
> Lies, damn lies and statistics.
> 
> In the world of market research there is a natural tendency that should be fought continuously. That is the tendency to distill intent from action. Let me give you a simple example.
> 
> In another thread I mentioned that I wind up on the Discovery Bar frequently. Now, the telemetry from my TiVo would show that I often land on the Discovery Bar (that's my action). Someone looking at that data could assume that I find the Discovery Bar useful because I land on it so much. However, what the telemetry does not show is that I did not intend to use the Discovery Bar. Indeed, I find it a waste of screen real estate and would like the ability to turn it off. I land on it frequently due to an design error in the TiVo UI, not because I intend to use it.
> 
> So the person looking at the telemetry from my TiVo could come to the wrong conclusion about how I use my TiVo.
> 
> I've seen many wrong conclusions such as that in the market research field. Sometimes when you're analyzing data, you see what you want to see because you try to assume intent when all the data show is action.
> 
> That's why I am not convinced TiVo's conclusions are correct. All this "small audience" stuff may be the usual after the fact attempts to justify what may be a incorrect decision.


What is the design error? I don't land on the discovery bar by accident. If I'm there it's because I'm checking out something up there. Otherwise I automatically go to the top of the list, not past it to the discovery bar.


----------



## Grakthis

nooneuknow said:


> My, oh my, the (unsubstantiated) declarations and (unsubstantiable) predictions (and especially the contradictions) just never end...
> 
> The so-called "priority list", always was, and currently is, just a part of batch one of the normal staged public rollout. By signing-up, you volunteer to be part of that first batch/group. As part of the design, there are people who get updates in the first batch, without doing a thing, and not all the volunteers get it in the first batch. I don't know TiVo's target ratio for volunteers from the priority list, to the unsuspecting people who get it first, anyway. I do try not to declare that which I can not, nor do not, know, as if it were fact. "Try" is the keyword there, before anybody pounces, or primes the flamethrower.
> 
> It was one of my suggestions (which some accuse me of never making/contributing), that TiVo rework the so-called "priority list" group to be only those who volunteer, and use it as a primary "canary in the coal mine" group (and make sure people know what they are volunteering for). I won't repeat all the details of my suggestion, as you were right there to argue over it, as soon as I posted it.
> 
> The way it works as-is, those who are itching to have the latest update, have a shot at getting it faster, by volunteering up their TSNs. Unless an update bricks TiVos in the first stage/batch/group, it goes on, even if there's a major issue with it. TiVo just rolls a letter revision out, to patch the issue.
> 
> The delay for Premiere boxes could be for any number of reasons, which might not even be about the software, but about the timing, or some legal issue. I have no clue what the reason is, and TiVo isn't saying. Since batch/stage/group one never even started to roll, not even to the priority volunteers, it simply hasn't rolled on planned schedule, as opposed to being a partial, halted, rollout. TiVo may be protecting those with Premieres, from something the field trial group caught, last second. It could be something along the lines of what you might call "politics" or any one of the speculations (the reasonable ones) across the half-dozen threads.
> 
> BTW: I'm aware of the threads that you've inserted your OnePass love parade into, somewhat stealthily, but have left it be. The half-dozen threads directly created for 20.4.6/OnePass, are enough (more than). Just keep in mind, that bouncing from one to the next thread, can be spotted with "view more posts by", and it's easy to spot somebody pretending to be fair and balanced, only when called out for bias, only to go back to biased in some other thread.
> 
> You love OnePass. I get that (who could possibly miss that fact?). I'm not trying to take it away from you.
> 
> It seems like there is something atypically slow about the pace of the Roamio rollout. But, that's based only on observing what others are posting (or not posting).
> 
> For better perspective, folks might want to consider leaving the confines of the TCF bubble, and taking a look at what TiVo is saying and doing, that they will never announce here. Check twitter feeds, check other social media fronts, check news, check TiVo job listings and the job descriptions.
> 
> I have a feeling there's far too many "sheltered" folk, only looking here, the last place such things wind up (if at all), and only in bits and pieces. I make that mistake sometimes, too. There's more to what is going on than what can be found here. Some of it, I have a feeling some would rather keep their head in the sand, than see hints (and facts) of TiVos new direction, prime directives, and what it means to those who bought a retail TiVo (or buy one).


I don't even have words to describe how unpleasant this post was to read. Even just like, the two paragraphs I could slog through.

I mean, I can be a pretty condescending *******, but you my friend, are an entirely new species.


----------



## Arcady

I have ended up in the discovery bar by accident a few times. Say you're 4 or 5 shows from the top of the list. You press the up arrow what you think is enough to go back up to the top, but you overshoot and end up in the stupid discovery bar instead.

Most of the time I just use page up/down or skip to end/top so this doesn't happen.


----------



## aaronwt

Arcady said:


> I have ended up in the discovery bar by accident a few times. Say you're 4 or 5 shows from the top of the list. You press the up arrow what you think is enough to go back up to the top, but you overshoot and end up in the stupid discovery bar instead.
> 
> Most of the time I just use page up/down or skip to end/top so this doesn't happen.


I see. I usually hit the skip button which takes me to the top of the list or to the bottom of the list. Or I will hit the page up/down button.


----------



## RoyK

Arcady said:


> I have ended up in the discovery bar by accident a few times. Say you're 4 or 5 shows from the top of the list. You press the up arrow what you think is enough to go back up to the top, but you overshoot and end up in the stupid discovery bar instead.
> 
> Most of the time I just use page up/down or skip to end/top so this doesn't happen.


I admit to overshooting all the time. Anytime I'm in the discovery bar it's most definitely not intentional.


----------



## Dan203

lpwcomp said:


> It would be spectacularly silly to have multiple priorities within a single One Pass as opposed to restoring the ability to have multiple (whatever) passes for the same series. I would think it would only be necessary to limit it to a single pass per series that includes streaming options. Lest I be misunderstood, I mean you could have multiple passes for a series but only one of them could include the streaming options.


They can't allow multiple passes any more because the pass is now associated with the folder in My Shows and the series in general. They made a design decision to only allow one pass per show, and implemented it as such throughout the UI. Unless they revert those UI changes then multiple passes wont make sense regardless of what they're called.


----------



## lpwcomp

Dan203 said:


> They can't allow multiple passes any more because the pass is now associated with the folder in My Shows and the series in general. They made a design decision to only allow one pass per show, and implemented it as such throughout the UI. Unless they revert those UI changes then multiple passes wont make sense regardless of what they're called.


I doubt they'll do anything but I think it far more likely that they enable multiple passes for a group than they are to try and have multiple priorities etc. for a single pass,


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> I'm sure they knew beforehand that it would affect some of it's customers and they made a decision that those customers would either find an acceptable workaround or they would be lost. I'm assuming the number affected was low because I can't imagine they'd take that gamble if this affected a large percentage of their customers.


You speak of the "gamble" that TiVo made. I agree that the decision to go with OnePass was a gamble, i.e., based more upon luck than fact.

I suspect that TiVo had incorrect data going in to the "gamble" that lead them to the incorrect conclusion.

Why do you think that corporations always make correct decisions?

There have been many examples of corporations making tactical decisions that have been the strategic death of the company.

Is this decision of TiVo's in that category? I hope not, because TiVo has, in the past, shown the true qualities of innovation in their market space, not so much recently though.

With much respect for you here, I do not subscribe to the opinion that the decision is correct just because TiVo made that decision.

I truly think that TiVo has made a tactical decision with strategic consequences that it have not yet realized. Indeed, I have to wonder, based upon what I've seen, whether or not TiVo is capable of realizing that strategic detriment.

It is a common mode of failure for a company.

A company realizes that they are failing in their market so, instead of innovating and leap frogging, they jump upon the cash cow of tactical short term features instead of leap-frogging the competition.

Other threads here have noted the deletion of multiple season passes has left TiVo with more of a "we're the same as the competition" feature set.

Strategically, do you think it is success-oriented for a company to remove competitive advantages in their products? That's the question that TiVo needs to answer.

.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> ... They made a design decision to only allow one pass per show, and implemented it as such throughout the UI. ...


I would proffer that those changes of "one pass per show" were implemented in the data structures, not the UI.

The UI is merely a presentation for the user of the underlying data structures and algorithms.

There's reason why computer science folk attend classes along the lines of ~data structures and algorithms~. They are the basis of all programs.


----------



## epstewart

I wonder if a good solution might not be to re-institute Season Passes that would function as before?

Meanwhile, keep OnePass. The user could set up one or more SPs for a show, and also, optionally, a 1P. Only the 1P would integrate streaming sources. The SP(s) would not do so.

There would be separate folders for SP and 1P recordings. The 1P folder would contain the actual recordings, in case of duplicative recording triggers. The SP folder(s) would simply contain "shortcuts" or "aliases" to the actual recordings.

If the actual recording were deleted, it's aliases/shortcuts would also be automatically removed.

Maybe this is a way to have our cake and eat it too ...


----------



## jcthorne

WorldBandRadio said:


> And many of us feel OnePass is exactly that, a leapfrog of the competition to allow you to have everything dealing with one show in a single folder, regardless of source. No other device is even attempting this level of integration of broadcast and OTT services.
> 
> Sure there are some growing pains. I still feel with a few tweaks of other systems like wishlists that this new OnePass will regain all past functionality and gain quite a bit the competition does not.


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> I wonder if a good solution might not be to re-institute Season Passes that would function as before?
> 
> Meanwhile, keep OnePass. The user could set up one or more SPs for a show, and also, optionally, a 1P. Only the 1P would integrate streaming sources. The SP(s) would not do so.
> 
> There would be separate folders for SP and 1P recordings. The 1P folder would contain the actual recordings, in case of duplicative recording triggers. The SP folder(s) would simply contain "shortcuts" or "aliases" to the actual recordings.
> 
> If the actual recording were deleted, it's aliases/shortcuts would also be automatically removed.
> 
> Maybe this is a way to have our cake and eat it too ...


All they need to do is add channel filter criteria to wishlists along with the other selection criteria. Then any recordings that a wishlist makes that also fit in a OnePass folder should also be presented there.


----------



## epstewart

jcthorne said:


> All they need to do is add channel filter criteria to wishlists along with the other selection criteria. Then any recordings that a wishlist makes that also fit in a OnePass folder should also be presented there.


That is also a good idea!


----------



## murgatroyd

Wishlists that are channel-specific. Am I the only person here who thinks this is absurd?

Seriously guys. You're all saying, "Let's make a special kind of wishlist that records a show, that's restricted to a single channel."

Isn't that kind of like -- a SEASON PASS?

It's also ridiculous that so many of you have seized on the use case of the people who want to record repeats of shows, and dismissed what they want to do as not important.

First of all, it's sucky to say to someone, "I don't need to do what you want to do, so I don't care." 

Second, it's sucky to completely ignore the needs of people who want SPs to have more control when they record sports. 

Third, it's especially sucky to lecture us about how TiVo must have run the numbers and "no one" needs the functionality we are using, yada yada yada -- as if we aren't aware how corporate decision-making works when it is done by bean-counting.


----------



## realityboy

Well, when you put it that way, I guess channel specific wishlists do seem a bit silly. I saw in another thread that someone was even suggesting that they use seriesid. So pretty much, we're just trying to recreate season passes.


----------



## zaphodbeeblebrox

murgatroyd said:


> Wishlists that are channel-specific. Am I the only person here who thinks this is absurd?
> 
> Seriously guys. You're all saying, "Let's make a special kind of wishlist that records a show, that's restricted to a single channel."
> 
> Isn't that kind of like -- a SEASON PASS?
> 
> It's also ridiculous that so many of you have seized on the use case of the people who want to record repeats of shows, and dismissed what they want to do as not important.
> 
> First of all, it's sucky to say to someone, "I don't need to do what you want to do, so I don't care."
> 
> Second, it's sucky to completely ignore the needs of people who want SPs to have more control when they record sports.
> 
> Third, it's especially sucky to lecture us about how TiVo must have run the numbers and "no one" needs the functionality we are using, yada yada yada -- as if we aren't aware how corporate decision-making works when it is done by bean-counting.


+1 (and then some) :up: :up: :up:


----------



## epstewart

murgatroyd said:


> Seriously guys. You're all saying, "Let's make a special kind of wishlist that records a show, that's restricted to a single channel."
> 
> Isn't that kind of like -- a SEASON PASS?


Yes, exactly. I have been among those hoping to press for a channel-specific Wishlist, for the very reason that it might replace the now-defunct Season Pass.

If so, it might be a way for TiVo to give people what they want ... without TiVo having to admit to having erred in implementing OnePass.

I still think a channel-specific Wishlist might not be a bad idea, but I now realize it's not a panacea. In another thread I've finally managed to learn the "obvious": that Season Passes were (and the OnePass is) based on a unique "seriesid," while Wishlists are based on keywords such as words found in a series title. You can't set up a Wishlist for "Lost," for example, and be totally sure it will only record the series called "Lost"  even if the Wishlist were channel-specific.

So I think the hope for a Wishlist that would act as a "stealth" Season Pass is, sadly, a vain one.

That means that there needs to be some "give" on the part of the folks at TiVo, so that the lost Season Pass functionality might be expressly restored.


----------



## jcthorne

murgatroyd said:


> Wishlists that are channel-specific. Am I the only person here who thinks this is absurd?
> 
> Seriously guys. You're all saying, "Let's make a special kind of wishlist that records a show, that's restricted to a single channel."
> 
> Isn't that kind of like -- a SEASON PASS?
> 
> It's also ridiculous that so many of you have seized on the use case of the people who want to record repeats of shows, and dismissed what they want to do as not important.
> 
> First of all, it's sucky to say to someone, "I don't need to do what you want to do, so I don't care."
> 
> Second, it's sucky to completely ignore the needs of people who want SPs to have more control when they record sports.
> 
> Third, it's especially sucky to lecture us about how TiVo must have run the numbers and "no one" needs the functionality we are using, yada yada yada -- as if we aren't aware how corporate decision-making works when it is done by bean-counting.


No, in the new UI scheme with OnePasses it makes perfect sense. Season Passes are GONE. Deal with it. Having Season Passes and OnePasses is confusing and tivo will not go that route. They left wishlists intentionally and they mesh well with OnePass. Just need one additional search criteria to enable them to replicate a function lost when OnePass came.

We are not going back folks.


----------



## jcthorne

epstewart said:


> So I think the hope for a Wishlist that would act as a "stealth" Season Pass is, sadly, a vain one.
> 
> That means that there needs to be some "give" on the part of the folks at TiVo, so that the lost Season Pass functionality might be expressly restored.


In your specific example, you would need to add an actor, such as the main character or other specific criteria to filter down. When the wishlist DOES record episodes of Lost that match the seriesID of the OnePass, they are added to that folder as well.


----------



## RoyK

jcthorne said:


> No, in the new UI scheme with OnePasses it makes perfect sense. Season Passes are GONE. Deal with it. Having Season Passes and OnePasses is confusing and tivo will not go that route. They left wishlists intentionally and they mesh well with OnePass. Just need one additional search criteria to enable them to replicate a function lost when OnePass came.
> 
> We are not going back folks.


In other words multiple SPs are too confusing but setting up a series to record according to one criteria the way you always have and a second instance of doing the exact same thing a completely different way isn't?

TiVo flat out broke a key functionality that many of us use to record what we want the way we want which, after all, is what we purchased our DVRs for. What TiVo broke, TiVo can fix. It ain't rocket science and users aren't stupid.'


----------



## murgatroyd

realityboy said:


> Well, when you put it that way, I guess channel specific wishlists do seem a bit silly. I saw in another thread that someone was even suggesting that they use seriesid. *So pretty much, we're just trying to recreate season passes.*


Exactly. The classic Season Pass is a useful thing. If that were not the case, then everyone wouldn't be arguing about how we might be able to replicate a SP with an ARWL.

It's pretty crappy that TiVo broke something that didn't need to be fixed, all for the sake of people who were too lazy to look for copies of the same show in more than one folder.

And in the case of some things, like the PBS shows that are shown under an umbrella name like "Masterpiece Classic" or "Masterpiece Mystery", the shows will STILL be in two separate folders anyway, even with a One Pass.


----------



## Grakthis

murgatroyd said:


> It's pretty crappy that TiVo broke something that didn't need to be fixed, all for the sake of people who were too lazy to look for copies of the same show in


This is an asinine thing to say. Stop and think before you make posts like this, and you'd save me the hassle of calling it asinine and yourself the embarrassment.


----------



## zaphodbeeblebrox

Post removed by author, to appease others.


----------



## csell

zaphodbeeblebrox said:


> http://messaging.tivo.com/Portal/co...6664570302549221435&siteNodeId=13456&b=351388
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/onepass


This is my favorite one:

*How do I create a OnePass for new episodes and a OnePass for reruns?*

You cannot create more than a single OnePass for a show. In order to create a similar experience, you can do the following: Modify your Onepass to a recordings and streaming and new episodes only. This allows you to watch new season recordings and *old seasons in streaming*.

So their solution is for us to watch reruns on streaming? So for us to get our old functionality back, we need to pay for a streaming service. For some reason, they think everyone has Hulu or Netflix. Guess what, we don't all have that. I know I don't.


----------



## lpwcomp

zaphodbeeblebrox said:


> http://messaging.tivo.com/Portal/co...6664570302549221435&siteNodeId=13456&b=351388


Cross posting is considered to be a bad thing. You posted the exact same thing to four different threads.


----------



## lpwcomp

csell said:


> This is my favorite one:
> 
> *How do I create a OnePass for new episodes and a OnePass for reruns?*
> 
> You cannot create more than a single OnePass for a show. In order to create a similar experience, you can do the following: Modify your Onepass to a recordings and streaming and new episodes only. This allows you to watch new season recordings and *old seasons in streaming*.
> 
> So their solution is for us to watch reruns on streaming? So for us to get our old functionality back, we need to pay for a streaming service. For some reason, they think everyone has Hulu or Netflix. Guess what, we don't all have that. I know I don't.


This supports my theory of why they did this and why we are not likely to see a "fix".


----------



## csell

My other favorite FAQ:

*How do I turn off OnePass?*

You can choose not to use the OnePass functionality by not creating one at all.

Well, that was helpful.


----------



## h2oskierc

TiVo should just make the old school Season Pass an option through a back door, perhaps via the web? That way the Marketing folks can be happy, the average user gets the "easier" 1P option, and the power users still have a way to get what they want.

Then we could all be happy? Maybe?


----------



## RoyK

> I sure hope she didn't get into any trouble for disclosing what she did here, and feel bad that she's the one seeing all the negativity and virtual hatred...


I wouldn't go so far as to say hatred but as to the negativity - she is the Chief Design Officer and as such I assume bears ultimate responsibility for the design decisions that we are protesting here so I'd say the negativity is perfectly understandable.


----------



## RoyK

csell said:


> This is my favorite one:
> 
> *How do I create a OnePass for new episodes and a OnePass for reruns?*
> 
> You cannot create more than a single OnePass for a show. In order to create a similar experience, you can do the following: Modify your Onepass to a "recordings and streaming" and "new episodes only". This allows you to watch new season recordings and *old seasons in streaming*.
> 
> So their solution is for us to watch reruns on streaming? So for us to get our old functionality back, we need to pay for a streaming service. For some reason, they think everyone has Hulu or Netflix. Guess what, we don't all have that. I know I don't.


Well there's still the three thumbs up method.


----------



## L David Matheny

RoyK said:


> I wouldn't go so far as to say hatred but as to the negativity - she is the Chief Design Officer and as such I assume bears ultimate responsibility for the design decisions that we are protesting here so I'd say the negativity is perfectly understandable.


Somebody at TiVo needs to be reading this valuable (if sometimes too passionate) feedback. Margret is probably the highest placed person to do so. I'm sure she can take the moderate amount of heat expressed here. I just hope our comments can lead to improvements in the product.


----------



## bradleys

L David Matheny said:


> Somebody at TiVo needs to be reading this valuable (if sometimes too passionate) feedback. Margret is probably the highest placed person to do so. I'm sure she can take the moderate amount of heat expressed here. I just hope our comments can lead to improvements in the product.


I think there are improvement that can be made to the product... But I do not think they are going to give you what you are asking for.

I am sure this thread was watched for a while, but do you think they are still following it?

Like any uncomfortable change - time is usually the best solution.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> I think there are improvement that can be made to the product... But I do not think they are going to give you what you are asking for.
> 
> I am sure this thread was watched for a while, but do you think they are still following it?
> 
> Like any uncomfortable change - time is usually the best solution.


I disagree. How to regain the functionality of multiple SPs is a FAQ on the TiVo web site. This shows quite clearly that the problem is NOT one that only affects a few "power user's". TiVo has offered NO workable replacement for setting the box up to record in the manner that multiple SPs makes was designed to do and did so well.

The "use streaming" response on the Web site ONLY works if you shell out more money AND you have the Internet capacity available (mine will work usually streaming one show but often there are a couple being watched and other online activity taking place) and if your show is available from your source or indeed any source. Most are NOT.


----------



## bradleys

RoyK said:


> I disagree. How to regain the functionality of multiple SPs is a FAQ on the TiVo web site. This shows quite clearly that the problem is NOT one that only affects a few "power user's". TiVo has offered NO workable replacement for setting the box up to record in the manner that multiple SPs makes was designed to do and did so well.
> 
> The "use streaming" response on the Web site ONLY works if you shell out more money AND you have the Internet capacity available (mine will work usually streaming one show but often there are a couple being watched and other online activity taking place) and if your show is available from your source or indeed any source. Most are NOT.


The use of streaming in this case is a marketing document, not some smoking gun. "Workable work around" is a subjective point of view and one that TiVo on the surface deems acceptable.

They aren't going to rollback the design they have - most probably they will wait out this uncomfortable period until the noise quiets down.

That is the downside of a thread(s) like this, the group convinces itself of its own piety and assumes the world agrees with them.

I will leave you alone for a while - single point of view is a happier point of view.


----------



## L David Matheny

bradleys said:


> I think there are improvement that can be made to the product... But I do not think they are going to give you what you are asking for.
> 
> I am sure this thread was watched for a while, but do you think they are still following it?
> 
> Like any uncomfortable change - time is usually the best solution.


If TiVo has drunk too much of the Kool-Aid (committed irrevocably to revised program code), then they may not fix anything, at least not in any direct, satisfying way. But unless they're fools, someone is still reading this, probably including Margret. And time won't cure our losses, but we will learn to live with them until TiVo polishes the new code to full functionality (assuming that they can). And I'm another user for whom streaming is not an option.


----------



## L David Matheny

bradleys said:


> They aren't going to rollback the design they have - most probably they will wait out this uncomfortable period until the noise quiets down.
> 
> That is the downside of a thread(s) like this, the group convinces itself of its own piety and assumes the world agrees with them.
> 
> I will leave you alone for a while - single point of view is a happier point of view.


These threads aren't about piety. Some of us are attempting to impose rationality on our world. It's a tough job, but somebody has to try.


----------



## mattack

I mentioned it in other threads, but this inability to have multiple SPs for a show is a huge LOSS in functionality.. I have several cases where I have multiple SPs for the same show, one example being so that I can record some shows on various PBS stations, but ONLY the SD stations.. (to save space on my Tivo AND so I can download them to watch in VLC on my iPad [faster than realtime, which the Tivo app doesn't allow] easily.)

Some of the other things, like the power saving, and the ability to combine streaming & recorded info for the same show, DO seem like benefits to me...

But it IS a big loss to not be able to have multiple SPs for the same show..


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> I think there are improvement that can be made to the product... But I do not think they are going to give you what you are asking for.
> 
> I am sure this thread was watched for a while, but do you think they are still following it?
> 
> Like any uncomfortable change - time is usually the best solution.


You were saying that when Coke introduced New Coke weren't you?


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> You were saying that when Coke introduced New Coke weren't you?


Coke lost sales because of that change - significant sales.

Do you think this change will loose sales for tivo or give them a huge marketing oportunity?

I am not trying to be cold about this. I get it is an inconvenient loss and I appreciate a little anger. But there are two sides of this and the product is pretty cool.

I think the majority of users will feel the same way.


----------



## aaronwt

bradleys said:


> Coke lost sales because of that change - significant sales.
> 
> Do you think this change will loose sales for tivo or give them a huge marketing oportunity?
> 
> I am not trying to be cold about this. I get it is an inconvenient loss and I appreciate a little anger. But there are two sides of this and the product is pretty cool.
> 
> I think the majority of users will feel the same way.


Retail sales are already declining. What really matters is the cable companies and their users. I would think TiVo had data about how many current users this would affect. So it's probably a very small percentage. Otherwise you wouldn't think it would have been implemented if it affected a very large percentage of TiVo users.


----------



## RoyK

aaronwt said:


> Retail sales are already declining. What really matters is the cable companies and their users. I would think TiVo had data about how many current users this would affect. So it's probably a very small percentage. Otherwise you wouldn't think it would have been implemented if it affected a very large percentage of TiVo users.


And yet how to replace multiple SPs is high among the FAQ on TiVo's OnePass Web page. Hardly likely if only a very small percentage of users are affected.


----------



## Grakthis

bradleys said:


> Coke lost sales because of that change - significant sales.


Actually, Coke was losing the war to Pepsi (Coke was only winning in volume because Pepsi was in fewer markets) when they made that change. Many marketing classes teach that it was the turning point in that war because it created strong attachment to ORIGINAL coke, even from people who were loosely attached before. New Coke provided an "enemy" for people to hate, making Coke Classic the hero, and leaving Pepsi out in the cold.

Just, for historical accuracy.


----------



## Grakthis

RoyK said:


> And yet how to replace multiple SPs is high among the FAQ on TiVo's OnePass Web page. Hardly likely if only a very small percentage of users are affected.


Sure it is, if the small number of users are very vocal.


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> Coke lost sales because of that change - significant sales.
> 
> Do you think this change will loose sales for tivo or give them a huge marketing oportunity?
> 
> I am not trying to be cold about this. I get it is an inconvenient loss and I appreciate a little anger. But there are two sides of this and the product is pretty cool.
> 
> I think the majority of users will feel the same way.


Sales Figures?!?!? Who needs Sales Figures!?!??! You don't. You were there, Day 1, proclaiming to everyone to just accept New Coke because there is no going back just like you were here day 1.


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> Sales Figures?!?!? Who needs Sales Figures!?!??! You don't. You were there, Day 1, proclaiming to everyone to just accept New Coke because there is no going back just like you were here day 1.


No, actually I was a Pepsi guy back in the day. Now I can't drink either Pepsi or Coke - Diet Coke and Diet Dr. Pepper are what I mix Crown with today!

You are correct that I tend to be less passionate about loss in general than most people. I enjoy looking at a bigger picture and how change works for me as opposed as getting frustrated over the loss of smaller things.

I accept that for some people this creates more of an issue than it does for others... My voice in the conversation isn't to dimish that change for them - it is simply to provide some balance to the conversation.


----------



## CoxInPHX

Received OnePass yesterday on my Roamio Pro and Minis, While I won't use it very much, I do find it quite unique, easy to use, and it will set TiVo apart from everything else. I can see the value of OnePass especially for the cord-shaver/cord-cutter that supplements w/ streaming and VOD for MSO partners. I have been setting up streaming only passes for original Netflix, Amazon and Hulu content only.

I have 3 TiVo DVRs so I can use an older Premiere to set-up a second OnePass for any multiple SPs I used to have.

For those that need multiple SP/1Ps, If TiVo does not respond with a serious solution. The best solution I see is getting a used Premiere w/ Lifetime off eBay, or a seller here at TCF for ~$300


----------



## RoyK

CoxInPHX said:


> Received OnePass yesterday on my Roamio Pro and Minis, While I won't use it very much, I do find it quite unique, easy to use, and it will set TiVo apart from everything else. I can see the value of OnePass especially for the cord-shaver/cord-cutter that supplements w/ streaming and VOD for MSO partners. I have been setting up streaming only passes for original Netflix, Amazon and Hulu content only.
> 
> I have 3 TiVo DVRs so I can use an older Premiere to set-up a second OnePass for any multiple SPs I used to have.
> 
> For those that need multiple SP/1Ps, If TiVo does not respond with a serious solution. The best solution I see is getting a used Premiere w/ Lifetime off eBay, or a seller here at TCF for ~$300


Trippling my investment in my roamio basic to retain the functionality I have today is an unacceptable solution. But a subscription to Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Hulu Plus in order to do the same thing would cost about that much ANNUALLY.


----------



## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Trippling my investment in my roamio basic to retain the functionality I have today is an unacceptable solution. But a subscription to Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Hulu Plus in order to do the same thing would cost about that much ANNUALLY.


There's also the additional monthly CableCARD/outlet fee to consider.


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> You are correct that I tend to be less passionate about loss in general than most people. I enjoy looking at a bigger picture and how change works for me as opposed as getting frustrated over the loss of smaller things.
> 
> I accept that for some people this creates more of an issue than it does for others... My voice in the conversation isn't to dimish that change for them - it is simply to provide some balance to the conversation.


No I think you enjoy telling people to get over things that you don't use and don't care about.  You enjoy telling people Tivo isn't going to change back when you have no clue what, if anything, Tivo may do to address this loss of functionality in the future. 

And I could understand if you're reading complaints about an old way of doing things that now have a different but good substitute or if it is just a matter of someone being used to doing things one way or another and they just don't want to burn some calories to change.

But this is a bit deeper than that. It's about losing functionality that many used regularly and for which there is no good substitute now. The fact that you never used it, and fail to understand it, gives your voice little to no weight in this discussion contrary to what you might think.

OH and "Get over it" and "Don't complain cause they won't change back?" is not providing any "balance."


----------



## bradleys

trip1eX said:


> No you enjoy telling people to get over things that you don't care about.
> 
> You enjoy telling people they aren't going to change back when you have no clue what if anything Tivo may do to address this loss of functionality in the future.
> 
> You provide zero balance. What's your balance here? Get over it is your balance? Don't complain cause they won't change back? That's your version of balance?
> 
> ARe you setting an example for others to follow? So anytime I see you post something I should say the opposite to provide balance even if I don't use said feature etc?


I am not asking you to be excited about the loss, only to understand the strategy tivo is trying to implement.

And yes, I am suggesting that tivo is not planning to substantively recreate or replace the lost functionality - so in my mind the conversation starts at that point and fact.


----------



## RoyK

bradleys said:


> I am not asking you to be excited about the loss, only to understand the strategy tivo is trying to implement.
> 
> And yes, I am suggesting that tivo is not planning to substantively recreate or replace the lost functionality - so in my mind the conversation starts at that point and fact.


----------



## trip1eX

bradleys said:


> I am not asking you to be excited about the loss, only to understand the strategy tivo is trying to implement.
> 
> And yes, I am suggesting that tivo is not planning to substantively recreate or replace the lost functionality - so in my mind the conversation starts at that point and fact.


I am asking you to realize your voice carries little to no weight in this conversation. You have nothing to add here. You don't understand the functionality in question nor why anyone used it nor have you used it.

This thread is really a voice for those that used this functionality and now don't have it and don't see any good substitute for it. IT's also to discuss the various workarounds and pitfalls of each of them.


----------



## moyekj

CoxInPHX said:


> For those that need multiple SP/1Ps, If TiVo does not respond with a serious solution. The best solution I see is getting a used Premiere w/ Lifetime off eBay, or a seller here at TCF for ~$300


 How's that going to help? Series 4 units are going to get the same 1P update soon enough. You'd have to go back to Series 3 to recover full SP functionality.

EDIT: I guess you mean spreading out SPs over multiple units is how it would help. Quite a price to pay for that and makes it a lot more inconvenient looking for recordings across multiple units.


----------



## RoyK

trip1eX said:


> I am asking you to realize your voice carries no weight in this conversation. You have nothing to add. You don't understand the functionality and why anyone used it. You never used it.
> 
> You are adding but bs speculation about what Tivo may or may not do in the future which does nothing for anyone.


He is accomplishing exactly what he intends - - focusing the attention on him instead of the forum topic. Best way to deal with people who do this is ignore them which I intend to do. Again.


----------



## lpwcomp

moyekj said:


> How's that going to help? Series 4 units are going to get the same 1P update soon enough. You'd have to go back to Series 3 to recover full SP functionality.


It would add another TiVo so that you would at least be able to have 2 1Ps for a series.


----------



## CoxInPHX

moyekj said:


> EDIT: I guess you mean spreading out SPs over multiple units is how it would help. Quite a price to pay for that and makes it a lot more inconvenient looking for recordings across multiple units.


Yes, this is what I meant,
Now if TiVo would offer anyone calling in with this issue a $99 lifetime on a used or NIB Premiere that might go a long way to appease some.


----------



## zaphodbeeblebrox

trip1eX said:


> Sales Figures?!?!? Who needs Sales Figures!?!??! You don't. You were there, Day 1, proclaiming to everyone to just accept New Coke because there is no going back just like you were here day 1.





trip1eX said:


> No I think you enjoy telling people to get over things that you don't use and don't care about.  You enjoy telling people Tivo isn't going to change back when you have no clue what, if anything, Tivo may do to address this loss of functionality in the future.
> 
> And I could understand if you're reading complaints about an old way of doing things that now have a different but good substitute or if it is just a matter of someone being used to doing things one way or another and they just don't want to burn some calories to change.
> 
> But this is a bit deeper than that. It's about losing functionality that many used regularly and for which there is no good substitute now. The fact that you never used it, and fail to understand it, gives your voice little to no weight in this discussion contrary to what you might think.
> 
> OH and "Get over it" and "Don't complain cause they won't change back?" is not providing any "balance."





trip1eX said:


> I am asking you to realize your voice carries little to no weight in this conversation. You have nothing to add here. You don't understand the functionality in question nor why anyone used it nor have you used it.
> 
> This thread is really a voice for those that used this functionality and now don't have it and don't see any good substitute for it. IT's also to discuss the various workarounds and pitfalls of each of them.


+1 (x3)



RoyK said:


> He is accomplishing exactly what he intends - - focusing the attention on him instead of the forum topic. Best way to deal with people who do this is ignore them which I intend to do. Again.


+1 (multiplied by infinity and beyond)


----------



## Dan203

TiVo is moving toward a system where you have a single TiVo unit as a central hub and Minis spread around the house at secondary TVs. I seriously doubt they're going to add any features that only work if you have multiple TiVos. Plus we've discussed the whole "cooperative scheduling" thing in the past and there are some serious technical issues with a system like that. 

I still think TiVo ran the numbers on this before they released 1P and decided that those of you who use multiple SPs were acceptable losses. If they didn't and they're just now realizing this is an issue then I'm still not sure there is much they can do short of a full reversal to the original SP. Most of the 1P enhancements offered up thread are either too limited to too complicated to really work. The new 1P dialog is already way more complicated then anything I've ever seen from TiVo, I just can't see them trying to cram more options in there unless this issue really affects their subscriber numbers or their MSO partners complain.


----------



## rainwater

Dan203 said:


> TiVo is moving toward a system where you have a single TiVo unit as a central hub and Minis spread around the house at secondary TVs.


That is true. But it really makes me question the whole OnePass system they implemented which forces every single user on all the Minis and main Roamio to share the same watched state. It could be solved by profiles or at least treating each Mini as a separate profile.


----------



## RoamioJeff

Dan203 said:


> I still think TiVo ran the numbers on this before they released 1P and decided that those of you who use multiple SPs were acceptable losses.


Yup, that's how the free market works. Business generally must necessarily focus on what the majority of the customers care about. Stuff that a certain minority of customers care about does not necessarily make the cut.


----------



## Slime

I'm pretty upset by this forced loss of ability. I used multiple SPs to record new and rerun episodes. I work from home & enjoyed leaving the re-runs playing in the background at zero cost (well, apart from electricity).

I'd setup a season pass to record a new episode on a specific channel, and then another season pass to record new & reruns on a different specific channel (for some reason the CW here doesnt display properly in HD) at a lower priority.

There is no way to do this anymore. Watching re-runs on Hulu is a non-starter (my cable company is pretty tough on data caps), and paying for Hulu just to watch ads (I already pay for cable) is also not going to happen.

If I setup a 1P to include re-runs then those re-runs will overwrite the new episode pretty quickly, something I'm not prepared to accept. Also, recording re-runs at a high priority will cause the tuners to be swamped and loss of other show recordings.

I've been a long time Tivo supporter and had been happy to recommend it to my friends - but this update has me rethinking my plans.


----------



## Dan203

I think TiVo needs to add an option that somehow favors new episodes over reruns for both priority and the KAM setting. Perhaps even a global option called "Always prioritize new episodes over repeats" or something like that. It would always cause the oldest rerun to be deleted for a KAM conflict, rather then the oldest episode and it would cause the scheduling logic to favor a new episode over a rerun even if the 1P requesting the rerun is higher on the list.


----------



## epstewart

Dan203 said:


> I think TiVo needs to add an option that somehow favors new episodes over reruns for both priority and the KAM setting. Perhaps even a global option called "Always prioritize new episodes over repeats" or something like that. It would always cause the oldest rerun to be deleted for a KAM conflict, rather then the oldest episode and it would cause the scheduling logic to favor a new episode over a rerun even if the 1P requesting the rerun is higher on the list.


It could be called "Delete oldest rerun first" ....


----------



## RoyK

TiVo needs only to get over the hangup on the OnePass name, get wildly enthusiastic about "MULTIPass, your pathway to all kinds of wonderful things of many varieties and flavors!!!" and restore the multiple SP functionality.


----------



## Arcady

The problem with letting the TiVo decide which episode is a rerun, is that sometimes there is no season/episode info with a show.


----------



## bradleys

Dan203 said:


> I think TiVo needs to add an option that somehow favors new episodes over reruns for both priority and the KAM setting. Perhaps even a global option called "Always prioritize new episodes over repeats" or something like that. It would always cause the oldest rerun to be deleted for a KAM conflict, rather then the oldest episode and it would cause the scheduling logic to favor a new episode over a rerun even if the 1P requesting the rerun is higher on the list.


I completely agree with this point. The biggest problem with OnePass is the liklihood of prioritizing a rerun over a new showing. Run out of tuners and some random season 1 episode of the Big Bang Theory gets recorded while the new episode of the Walking Dead gets ignored.

In my world a re-run should NEVER have priority over a first run show, but that isn't necessarily a realistic rule.



Arcady said:


> The problem with letting the TiVo decide which episode is a rerun, is that sometimes there is no season/episode info with a show.


i would never say this wouldn't happen because I have seen it myself, but I think the occourance is rare enough that you can develop a set of rules around the *New* indicator and be pretty confident that it will address your needs.

It seems like ages ago, but I did submit a suggestion to tivo to address this issue specidfically. I am rather pessimistic that they will spend more then 10 minutes looking at it, but I do agree it is the biggest issue with the OnePass design.


----------



## murgatroyd

I'm getting really tired of hearing that I am too stupid to understand TiVo's strategy, and that the only users who are affected by this are the people who watch a mix of new episodes and repeats.

We can see from this thread and others that there are many good reasons people were using more than one SP on different channels to record what the Guide Data says is the "the same show".

When my S3 breaks, I can now look forward to 'replacing' it with a bloated box full of features I can't use, and reduced functionality for the core features I do use. Excuse me if I'm not overjoyed. 

This could easily be solved by having two product lines -- a TiVo Classic, with the look and feel of the S3, and a TiVo-stream-o-rama -- but of course that option is a non-starter. TiVo couldn't sell a Classic model which would never be updated again because people would be whinging that they didn't get the feature set that the other product line had.


----------



## Arcady

You could switch to DirecTV and use their antiquated TiVo box, which is basically a Series 3 interface.


----------



## Jed1

murgatroyd said:


> I'm getting really tired of hearing that I am too stupid to understand TiVo's strategy, and that the only users who are affected by this are the people who watch a mix of new episodes and repeats.
> 
> We can see from this thread and others that there are many good reasons people were using more than one SP on different channels to record what the Guide Data says is the "the same show".
> 
> When my S3 breaks, I can now look forward to 'replacing' it with a bloated box full of features I can't use, and reduced functionality for the core features I do use. Excuse me if I'm not overjoyed.
> 
> This could easily be solved by having two product lines -- a TiVo Classic, with the look and feel of the S3, and a TiVo-stream-o-rama -- but of course that option is a non-starter. TiVo couldn't sell a Classic model which would never be updated again because people would be whinging that they didn't get the feature set that the other product line had.


Just buy a Premiere (Series 4) model. I do believe that TiVo will still have the SD menu system on this platform which will be the old SP setup. The HD menu system will be updated to 1P.
The Premieres will be the best of both worlds so it appears now that this platform will be the best bang for the buck if you have a need to use the old SP for recordings reruns.


----------



## bradleys

Jed1 said:


> Just buy a Premiere (Series 4) model. I do believe that TiVo will still have the SD menu system on this platform which will be the old SP setup. The HD menu system will be updated to 1P.
> The Premieres will be the best of both worlds so it appears now that this platform will be the best bang for the buck if you have a need to use the old SP for recordings reruns.


Maybe I am wrong, I thought a release a while back eliminated the SD menus or was it just removed from the Roamio line?


----------



## lpwcomp

Jed1 said:


> Just buy a Premiere (Series 4) model. I do believe that TiVo will still have the SD menu system on this platform which will be the old SP setup. The HD menu system will be updated to 1P.
> The Premieres will be the best of both worlds so it appears now that this platform will be the best bang for the buck if you have a need to use the old SP for recordings reruns.


You would be wrong. If that were the case, then you could use kmttg to create additional SP's for the same show on a Roamio running the new release, which you demonstrably cannot. The change is at a lower level and the interface makes no difference. You may not be able to access the 1P "features" if you are using the SD menus, but the limitations it imposes will still be there.


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> Maybe I am wrong, I thought a release a while back eliminated the SD menus or was it just removed from the Roamio line?


Wrong on both counts. It is still an option on Premieres and was never an option on Roamios.


----------



## Jed1

bradleys said:


> Maybe I am wrong, I thought a release a while back eliminated the SD menus or was it just removed from the Roamio line?


Roamios never had the SD menus. The Premieres still have the option to use SD menus.


----------



## Jed1

lpwcomp said:


> You would be wrong. If that were the case, then you could use kmttg to create additional SP's for the same show on a Roamio running the new release, which you demonstrably cannot. The change is at a lower level and the interface makes no difference. You may not be able to access the 1P "features" if you are using the SD menus, but the limitations it imposes will still be there.


No. You buy a Premiere and use the SD menu to record all the repeats as you always did using SP. If you want to watch the repeats you can stream from the Premiere to your Roamio or watch directly using the Premiere. 
No need for kmttg you just need an additional CableCard for the Premiere unit.


----------



## bradleys

Jed1 said:


> No. You buy a Premiere and use the SD menu to record all the repeats as you always did using SP. If you want to watch the repeats you can stream from the Premiere to your Roamio or watch directly using the Premiere.
> No need for kmttg you just need an additional CableCard for the Premiere unit.


Interesting option...


----------



## lpwcomp

Jed1 said:


> No. You buy a Premiere and use the SD menu to record all the repeats as you always did using SP. If you want to watch the repeats you can stream from the Premiere to your Roamio or watch directly using the Premiere.
> No need for kmttg you just need an additional CableCard for the Premiere unit.


That's not what you said in the post I quoted. You said that you would be able to create an SP by using the SD menus which you manifestly would not be able to. It would still create a 1P.

Simply using the Premiere as a second TiVo, there is no reason to use the SD menus. You can create a different 1P on it just as easily as creating an "SP".


----------



## Jed1

lpwcomp said:


> That's not what you said in the post I quoted. You said that you would be able to create an SP by using the SD menus which you manifestly would not be able to. It would still create a 1P.
> 
> Simply using the Premiere as a second TiVo, there is no reason to use the SD menus. You can create a different 1P on it just as easily as creating an "SP".


He what I said in that post:


> Just buy a Premiere (Series 4) model. I do believe that TiVo will still have the SD menu system on this platform which will be the old SP setup. The HD menu system will be updated to 1P.
> The Premieres will be the best of both worlds so it appears now that this platform will be the best bang for the buck if you have a need to use the old SP for recordings reruns.


Which is buy the Premiere, select SD menu in guided setup which will use the old SP, schedule the recordings as you always did.
From my understanding only the HD menus will be updated to 1P on the Premieres and the SD menus will retain the old SP.


----------



## Slime

Sorry, but buying/setting up a 2nd Tivo to get around a 'new feature' doesn't seem like a practical solution. The additional cost is one factor, having to transfer shows or switch inputs to watch re-runs is another.

Removing a feature because hardly anyone uses it doesn't seem like good sense -- how many people use BCC in email clients, probably a lower % than folks that used two or more Season Passes - yet, no one's removed BCC yet...


----------



## lpwcomp

Jed1 said:


> He what I said in that post:
> 
> Which is buy the Premiere, select SD menu in guided setup which will use the old SP, schedule the recordings as you always did.
> From my understanding only the HD menus will be updated to 1P on the Premieres and the SD menus will retain the old SP.


And that is what I said was wrong. Even if it still looks like you are creating an old style Season Pass, you will actually be creating a One Pass, so what is the point of running the SD menus?


----------



## Jed1

Slime said:


> Sorry, but buying/setting up a 2nd Tivo to get around a 'new feature' doesn't seem like a practical solution. The additional cost is one factor, having to transfer shows or switch inputs to watch re-runs is another.
> 
> Removing a feature because hardly anyone uses it doesn't seem like good sense -- how many people use BCC in email clients, probably a lower % than folks that used two or more Season Passes - yet, no one's removed BCC yet...


For those users that record reruns have no other option, especially if TiVo will not change 1P to accommodate these users, then this will be a valid option. You will have the best of both worlds.
And you do not have to transfer shows you can stream from one TiVo to the other.
I record all commercial channel shows I watch on one TiVo and record all premium channel shows on the other. If I want to watch a show I go into my shows, select the other TiVo and pick a show and hit play. I even schedule recordings and SP's on my upstairs TiVo from my living room TiVo.


----------



## Jed1

lpwcomp said:


> And that is what I said was wrong. Even if it still looks like you are creating an old style Season Pass, you will actually be creating a One Pass, so what is the point of running the SD menus?


How will you be creating a 1P on a Premiere using the SD menus that will always be using SP?

Here is a simple way of looking at this. Lets say I have a Roamio running 1P and also have a Premiere running SP. The two are not merged together so if I set up some SP on the Premiere to record new shows with reruns or just reruns, that will not have any effect on the 1Ps set up on the Roamio. The two units will always run separately.


----------



## Arcady

PLEASE STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION

There is no option to use multiple Season Passes on a Premiere that has been updated to 20.4.6. It doesn't matter which interface you use. The option for more than one season pass for a single show is gone.


----------



## bradleys

Arcady said:


> PLEASE STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION
> 
> There is no option to use multiple Season Passes on a Premiere that has been updated to 20.4.6. It doesn't matter which interface you use. The option for more than one season pass for a single show is gone.


You may be right, does anyone know that for sure? For that to be true, they would have had to make some UI changes in the SD menus and I it would surprise me if that were the case.

It is also difficult to understand how they would handle the differences when swapping between UI if you are wrong.

I suppose we will know once a Premiere gets it's update.


----------



## Jed1

Arcady said:


> PLEASE STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION
> 
> There is no option to use multiple Season Passes on a Premiere that has been updated to 20.4.6. It doesn't matter which interface you use. The option for more than one season pass for a single show is gone.


If I am not mistaken only the HD menu system on the Premiere will be 1P and the SD menus will stay SP.
Somebody on this forum indicated that this was the reason why Premieres did not get the update yet. It will be known once the Premieres get the new update.


----------



## Arcady

bradleys said:


> You may be right, does anyone know that for sure?.


I know it for sure.


----------



## lpwcomp

Jed1 said:


> If I am not mistaken only the HD menu system on the Premiere will be 1P and the SD menus will stay SP.
> Somebody on this forum indicated that this was the reason why Premieres did not get the update yet. It will be known once the Premieres get the new update.


You are flat out wrong. The change to 1P is at a more fundamental level than the interface.


----------



## Jed1

Arcady said:


> I know it for sure.


This is from Margret's release notes for the new update:


> - Fixed a problem where modifying a *Season Pass in SD menus* would set it to record on all channels"


Why would she mention "Season Pass in SD menus" if the update would eliminate them?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10386574#post10386574


----------



## bradleys

Arcady said:


> I know it for sure.


It makes sense... The more you think about it the data model and services layer have been completely modified and there would be no way for the two UI to work independently.

I suppose it surprises me that this wasn't the breaking point for disabling the SDUI all togerther.

Now that would have pissed some people off!


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> It is also difficult to understand how they would handle the differences when swapping between UI if you are wrong.


Why? It's exactly the same concept as the difference in "My Shows" that exists today. Or the SPM. Or any of the displays that give you more information in the HD menus


----------



## Jed1

lpwcomp said:


> You are flat out wrong. The change to 1P is at a more fundamental level than the interface.





bradleys said:


> It makes sense... The more you think about it the data model and services layer have been completely modified and there would be no way for the two UI to work independently.
> 
> I suppose it surprises me that this wasn't the breaking point for disabling the SDUI all togerther.
> 
> Now that would have pissed some people off!


Here is what I answered to Arcady.

This is from Margret's release notes for the new update:


> - Fixed a problem where modifying a *Season Pass in SD menus* would set it to record on "all channels"


Why would she mention "Season Pass in SD menus" if the update would eliminate them?

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10386574#post10386574


----------



## Keen

Slime said:


> Removing a feature because hardly anyone uses it doesn't seem like good sense


That's exactly when features are removed. Every feature in a piece of software incurs maintenance costs that are ongoing. When you change other elements of the software, you need to test to confirm that feature is still working properly. So rarely-used features are always going to be on the chopping block when it comes time to trim things.

In this case, Tivo's making a massive change to the way Season Passes and My Shows works, and for some reason they decided to remove that feature as part of the work. Because so few people use it, this was something they could consider.


----------



## lpwcomp

As I stated previously, it is my belief that they didn't remove the capability to create multiple SPs for a series _*and*_ the record "Everything" option because "hardly anyone uses it", it was done to "encourage" people to utilize the streaming services to watch old or "missed" episodes.


----------



## lpwcomp

In an attempt to keep my New Year's resolution of being less confrontational, I will no longer respond to anything Jed1 has to say on the subject of SP creation via the SD menus.

At this point the only thing I have to say is that anyone who acquires a Premiere in the expectation that they will be able to create multiple SPs for a series after it is updated to 20.4.6 is a fool.


----------



## Grakthis

bradleys said:


> No, actually I was a Pepsi guy back in the day. Now I can't drink either Pepsi or Coke - Diet Coke and Diet Dr. Pepper are what I mix Crown with today!


Crown is ****, stop having bad taste in brown liquors, tia.


----------



## Grakthis

RoyK said:


> He is accomplishing exactly what he intends - - focusing the attention on him instead of the forum topic. Best way to deal with people who do this is ignore them which I intend to do. Again.


Hold on, is this coming from the guy who repeatedly derailed discussions of workarounds to rant more about how he's so angry about this design choice? You're complaining that someone did the same thing, but with the opposite position?

Holy **** pot, have you MET kettle?!?!?! You two...


----------



## bradleys

Grakthis said:


> Crown is ****, stop having bad taste in brown liquors, tia.


I also drink Glenfiddich 12 year old scotch and top shelf dirty Martini's with 3 olives!


----------



## bradleys

lpwcomp said:


> As I stated previously, it is my belief that they didn't remove the capability to create multiple SPs for a series _*and*_ the record "Everything" option because "hardly anyone uses it", it was done to "encourage" people to utilize the streaming services to watch old or "missed" episodes.


I agree with you to a point...

I don't think they are encouraging you to utilize streaming services over linear television. I think they are trying to place them on a level, consistent playing field. Make it so you don't have to care where the content lives.

One very appreciated option is to exclude pay content from the listing.


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> I agree with you to a point...
> 
> I don't think they are encouraging you to utilize streaming services over linear television. I think they are trying to place them on a level, consistent playing field. Make it so you don't have to care where the content lives.
> 
> One very appreciated option is to exclude pay content from the listing.


By putting episodes available by streaming in the group with recordings, they have tilted the playing field in favor of streaming.

Not to mention this statement in the FAQ:



> How do I create a OnePass for new episodes and a OnePass for reruns?
> 
> You cannot create more than a single OnePass for a show. In order to create a similar experience, you can do the following: Modify your Onepass to a recordings and streaming and new episodes only. This allows you to watch new season recordings and old seasons in streaming.


----------



## Dan203

RoyK said:


> TiVo needs only to get over the hangup on the OnePass name, get wildly enthusiastic about "MULTIPass, your pathway to all kinds of wonderful things of many varieties and flavors!!!" and restore the multiple SP functionality.


It's not just the name and the scheduling though. It's a fundamental change to the UI. Every show has just one folder and just one set of options which can be edited via a menu item at the bottom of that folder. If they switched to "multipass" then that portion of the system would also need to be reverted. At that point they might as well just revert to SP and scrap the whole idea.


----------



## lpwcomp

Dan203 said:


> It's not just the name and the scheduling though. It's a fundamental change to the UI. Every show has just one folder and just one set of options which can be edited via a menu item at the bottom of that folder. If they switched to "multipass" then that portion of the system would also need to be reverted. At that point they might as well just revert to SP and scrap the whole idea.


There has never been more than one "folder" per show.

Edit: I realize that pushed episodes with correct metadata now (usually) go into same group as recorded or pulled episodes whereas before they didn't but that change went in before the latest release and is not really relevant to One Pass anyway.


----------



## Keen

lpwcomp said:


> By putting episodes available by streaming in the group with recordings, they have tilted the playing field in favor of streaming.


...yeah, because that was a necessary step to equalize streaming with recordings. Recordings had much more attention paid to them pre-OnePass, but now they're roughly equivalent with streaming sources. Due to the nature of recordings, there will be many GUI features and elements that will make them have a larger role than streamed stuff, but Tivo just gave streaming sources a huge profile boost in their software. I'm very curious how things develop from here.


----------



## RoyK

Dan203 said:


> It's not just the name and the scheduling though. It's a fundamental change to the UI. Every show has just one folder and just one set of options which can be edited via a menu item at the bottom of that folder. If they switched to "multipass" then that portion of the system would also need to be reverted. At that point they might as well just revert to SP and scrap the whole idea.


Multiple SPs used a single folder just fine for years. Adding streaming should not be that difficult a programming/Gui challange.


----------



## realityboy

Dan203 said:


> It's not just the name and the scheduling though. It's a fundamental change to the UI. Every show has just one folder and just one set of options which can be edited via a menu item at the bottom of that folder. If they switched to "multipass" then that portion of the system would also need to be reverted. At that point they might as well just revert to SP and scrap the whole idea.


That was always the case. 1 folder per show with an option to modify a season pass in the folder. If multile SPs existed, the option showed "Season Pass options" and then you picked which SP you would like to modify-all from within the folder.


----------



## aaronwt

Arcady said:


> PLEASE STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION
> 
> There is no option to use multiple Season Passes on a Premiere that has been updated to 20.4.6. It doesn't matter which interface you use. The option for more than one season pass for a single show is gone.


Is 20.4.6 out for the Premiere? I've had mine unplugged since they had delayed it on the Premiere.


----------



## L David Matheny

Arcady said:


> There is no option to use multiple Season Passes on a Premiere that has been updated to 20.4.6. It doesn't matter which interface you use. The option for more than one season pass for a single show is gone.


I suspect you're right, although I don't know how you can be sure unless you're a beta tester. Even if an SDUI screen still says "Season Pass", it will probably be working from the same (one pass per show) tables used by the HDUI. And it wouldn't surprise me to see the SDUI disappear when a Premiere gets the 20.4.6 update.


----------



## murgatroyd

lpwcomp said:


> In an attempt to keep my New Year's resolution of being less confrontational, I will no longer respond to anything Jed1 has to say on the subject of SP creation via the SD menus.
> 
> At this point the only thing I have to say is that anyone who acquires a Premiere in the expectation that they will be able to create multiple SPs for a series after it is updated to 20.4.6 is a fool.





aaronwt said:


> Is 20.4.6 out for the Premiere? I've had mine unplugged since they had delayed it on the Premiere.


So did they break the SPs on the Premiere already with 20.4.5, or is this thread about a single machine that has a glitch?

Can't set up new season passes


----------



## lpwcomp

murgatroyd said:


> So did they break the SPs on the Premiere already with 20.4.5, or is this thread about a single machine that has a glitch?
> 
> Can't set up new season passes


While not limited to a "single machine", it is a completely different issue that also affected Roamios and was supposedly addressed by 20.4.6 but I still occasionally have had problems.

There are actually multiple threads on the problem. Search "Blue spinning circle".


----------



## Dan203

realityboy said:


> That was always the case. 1 folder per show with an option to modify a season pass in the folder. If multile SPs existed, the option showed "Season Pass options" and then you picked which SP you would like to modify-all from within the folder.


I didn't realize this. I thought the option to edit the SP from the folder was new and that in previous versions you had to select an episode or "explore this show" and then modify the SP from there.

Even so if they went back to the old SP model they'd still need to figure out some way to include streaming. Would streaming be tied to the folder? Or would it be tied to a specific SP? Or would you need another SP just for streaming?

I think these are some of the design decisions that TiVo had to consider when doing this and why they landed where they did.


----------



## Jed1

murgatroyd said:


> So did they break the SPs on the Premiere already with 20.4.5, or is this thread about a single machine that has a glitch?
> 
> Can't set up new season passes


No. I was suggesting earlier today that according to one of the 20.4.6 release notes from Margret that the SD menu on the Premiere will retain the old Season Pass. Only the HD menu on the Premiere will update to the new One Pass.


> - Fixed a problem where modifying a *Season Pass in SD menus* would set it to record on all channels


"
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10386574#post10386574

If this holds true then those users that were recording some programs with multiple SPs could use a Premiere set to the SD menu to continue to do this while using another Premiere/Roamio with HD menu set to use 1P.
The only thing is the Premiere using the SD menu system will not have access to streaming option but this would not be needed since the 1P boxes have this capability.

I know some members are having a hard time believing this but why would Margret issue a bug fix for Season Pass, using the SD menu on the Premieres, if they were going to change the SD menu from SP to 1P.


----------



## Arcady

Jed1 said:


> I know some members are having a hard time believing this


Yes, because it isn't true.


----------



## realityboy

Dan203 said:


> I didn't realize this. I thought the option to edit the SP from the folder was new and that in previous versions you had to select an episode or "explore this show" and then modify the SP from there.
> 
> Even so if they went back to the old SP model they'd still need to figure out some way to include streaming. Would streaming be tied to the folder? Or would it be tied to a specific SP? Or would you need another SP just for streaming?
> 
> I think these are some of the design decisions that TiVo had to consider when doing this and why they landed where they did.


I honestly don't know when it was added to the folder. I've never used it, and I just noticed it fairly recently. I could see how multiple OnePasses with streaming could be an issue. It seems like a simple fix to allow multiple OnePasses as long as only 1 includes streaming, but there has to be a more complicated underlying reason.


----------



## wtherrell

slowbiscuit said:


> Yep, not being able to have multiple 1Ps broke PGA Tour Golf recordings for sure - have to babysit them every weekend now for the ARWL I have. This is one case where specific channel ARWLs would fix the problem, assuming that the scheduler will record a new showing on every channel-specific ARWL you have (that's another issue relevant to this problem - both of the PGA Tour events each day say 'Third Round' or 'Final Round' so I'm not sure if the scheduler would record what it thinks is a dupe even if there were two ARWLs, one for each channel).


Exactly my problem. My longstanding love of TiVo is turning to hate. Wish I could revert to the older software.


----------



## slowbiscuit

Interestingly enough my ToDo List now shows separate PGA Tour Golf recordings for the Honda Classic next weekend scheduled with my single ARWL (Golf Channel and NBC on both days). So they may have fixed something in the guide data that was preventing both of these new events from being recorded on the same day.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

murgatroyd said:


> Wishlists that are channel-specific. Am I the only person here who thinks this is absurd?...


The absurd part is the fact that it would not be needed had TiVo not just removed the same feature, a feature that was very fundamental to the TiVo.


----------



## slowbiscuit

It's definitely not an absurd idea, it's just another filter for an ARWL that would largely let us workaround the 1P issues. IMO it would be useful even if you had the old SPs just because of bad guide data issues.


----------



## WorldBandRadio

Dan203 said:


> TiVo is moving toward a system where you have a single TiVo unit as a central hub and Minis spread around the house at secondary TVs. I seriously doubt they're going to add any features that only work if you have multiple TiVos.....


Yet they have removed a feature that requires one to have multiple TiVos in order to retain the functionality.


----------



## RoyK

Used the wl +1P workaround (wl new all channels kuid & 1P new and repeats USA) for SVU last night. As expected the new episode appeared in a wl folder and the1P folder. The episode is the newest in both folders and of course have the same time and date but the folders are separated in the date sorted listing with an episode of CSI Miami that is hours older than either listed after the wl but before the 1P!i


----------



## csell

murgatroyd said:


> Wishlists that are channel-specific. Am I the only person here who thinks this is absurd?
> 
> Seriously guys. You're all saying, "Let's make a special kind of wishlist that records a show, that's restricted to a single channel."
> 
> Isn't that kind of like -- a SEASON PASS?


Here's a perfect and legit example of a wishlist for a specific channel. I want to create a wishlist for the actor "Tom Hanks" but I want to specify the channel HBO as I don't want it to record any movies with him in it on network TV and thus commercials. I just want his movies on HBO with no commercials. Seems legit and not absurd to me.


----------



## Grakthis

bradleys said:


> I also drink Glenfiddich 12 year old scotch and top shelf dirty Martini's with 3 olives!


Dirty Martini's are fine and who cares what you do with clear liquors?

Your scotch preferences are objectively wrong, but harmless.

But for God's sake man, stop drinking Crown. Even the worst KY bourbons are better.


----------



## h2oskierc

Grakthis said:


> But for God's sake man, stop drinking Crown. Even the worst KY bourbons are better.


Ugh, cannot stand KY bourbons, or Jack Daniels. Crown Royal or Crown Royal Black all night long for me!

I like a blended whiskey, something a little more smooth. Not a single barrel fan.


----------



## bradleys

h2oskierc said:


> Ugh, cannot stand KY bourbons, or Jack Daniels. Crown Royal or Crown Royal Black all night long for me!
> 
> I like a blended whiskey, something a little more smooth. Not a single barrel fan.


I realize this may not be high brow, but some friends of mine and I absolutely killed a bottle of Honey Bourbon the other night! It was fantastic!

My favorite bar has Macallan 12 and I have been drinking that a little lately - not too bad.


----------



## h2oskierc

bradleys said:


> I realize this may not be high brow, but some friends of mine and I absolutely killed a bottle of Honey Bourbon the other night!


Honey Bourbon? I'm intrigued, was the honey very noticeable?

*EDIT:*
Obligatory post about OnePass and how my TiVo got it last night and I am worried, even thought I don't use Multiple Season Passes to stay On Topic...


----------



## murgatroyd

csell said:


> Here's a perfect and legit example of a wishlist for a specific channel. I want to create a wishlist for the actor "Tom Hanks" but I want to specify the channel HBO as I don't want it to record any movies with him in it on network TV and thus commercials. I just want his movies on HBO with no commercials. Seems legit and not absurd to me.


That's a better use case than simply trying to hack an ARWL to replace SP functionality. Thanks for posting it.


----------



## lpwcomp

h2oskierc said:


> Honey Bourbon? I'm intrigued, was the honey very noticeable?
> 
> *EDIT:*
> Obligatory post about OnePass and how my TiVo got it last night and I am worried, even thought I don't use Multiple Season Passes to stay On Topic...


Isn't there already a Bourbon thread?


----------



## bradleys

lpwcomp said:


> Isn't there already a Bourbon thread?


Is there? The Honey Bourbon is sweeter, didn't need a mixer at all - no heavy honey flavor.

I have had OnePass for a few weeks and I like it quite a bit... I can see several opportunities for improvement though.


----------



## lpwcomp

bradleys said:


> Is there? The Honey Bourbon is sweeter, didn't need a mixer at all - no heavy honey flavor.


Actually, there have been a few over the years. The most recent one (last post January of this year) is here.


----------



## bradleys

lpwcomp said:


> Actually, there have been a few over the years. The most recent one (last post January of this year) is here.


I think the point was to lighten up the conversation a little - not to derail it.


----------



## Grakthis

h2oskierc said:


> Ugh, cannot stand KY bourbons, or Jack Daniels. Crown Royal or Crown Royal Black all night long for me!
> 
> I like a blended whiskey, something a little more smooth. Not a single barrel fan.


Ok, saying "I cannot stand KY bourbons" is roughly like saying "Ugh, I hate television shows." It's one of those things that I have to take as a joke because someone can't be serious when they say it.

There's such variety and quantity of KY bourbons that it would take a lifetime to try even half of them. I'm 35 years old and live in KY and I still run into locally made bourbon's I haven't had before.

Bourbon is ridiculously smooth. It's candy whiskey. It's, generally, the sweetest of the whiskey options.


----------



## Grakthis

bradleys said:


> I realize this may not be high brow, but some friends of mine and I absolutely killed a bottle of Honey Bourbon the other night! It was fantastic!
> 
> My favorite bar has Macallan 12 and I have been drinking that a little lately - not too bad.


Macallan is always welcome. You basically have to stop at the 12 because the 18 is way overpriced. I prefer a cheaper scotch with more age, in most cases, but I won't say not to a Macallan 12.


----------



## RoyK

It's been a long time since I've seen a thread hijacked like this.


----------



## Arcady

RoyK said:


> It's been a long time since I've seen a thread hijacked like this.


There are like 50 OnePass threads. I have no problem with one of them turning into "the bourbon thread."


----------



## lpwcomp

Arcady said:


> There are like 50 OnePass threads. I have no problem with one of them turning into "the bourbon thread."


----------



## h2oskierc

Grakthis said:


> Ok, saying "I cannot stand KY bourbons" is roughly like saying "Ugh, I hate television shows." It's one of those things that I have to take as a joke because someone can't be serious when they say it.
> 
> There's such variety and quantity of KY bourbons that it would take a lifetime to try even half of them. I'm 35 years old and live in KY and I still run into locally made bourbon's I haven't had before.
> 
> Bourbon is ridiculously smooth. It's candy whiskey. It's, generally, the sweetest of the whiskey options.


Fair enough, I cannot stand the Bourbons I have tried. The last I had was Maker's Mark.

I intend on looking for a honey bourbon when I am at the liquor store next time, though.

_This OT rant is Arcady approved!!!_ :up:


----------



## Arcady

h2oskierc said:


> Fair enough, I cannot stand the Bourbons I have tried. The last I had was Maker's Mark.
> 
> I intend on looking for a honey bourbon when I am at the liquor store next time, though.
> 
> _This OT rant is Arcady approved!!!_ :up:


I went on a bar crawl in Louisville last summer, and everyone looked at me like I was a crazy person when I ordered a Maker's in the actual Maker's bar...


----------



## PedjaR

Jed1 said:


> No. I was suggesting earlier today that according to one of the 20.4.6 release notes from Margret that the SD menu on the Premiere will retain the old Season Pass. Only the HD menu on the Premiere will update to the new One Pass. ...


On Premiere you can switch the type of menu (SD or HD) back and forth several times a minute if you want (and if you are fast with remote). Do you really think that the underlying database would convert from OnePass to Season Pass(es) every time, and without losing data (each of them have info that another does not)? That would be really interesting (translation: it is not happening  ).


----------



## mattack

mattack said:


> I mentioned it in other threads, but this inability to have multiple SPs for a show is a huge LOSS in functionality..


UNTIL I find another case where I would like this functionality still, I completely take back my complaint!

With OnePass, we can set "Record in HD" to NEVER, which fits at least my _major_ use case of multiple SPs (vs an "All Channels" SP)..

I realize at least the originator of the thread had a different reason for wanting multiple SPs.. But _for now_ I take back my criticism..


----------



## DavidS

Have the same issue as the original poster - want high priorty SP for, e.g. L&O-SVU for NBC, and low priority for reruns on USA. So I'm trying the solution of a 1P for NBC only and wishlist for others. So far so good.

HOWEVER, another show in the same boat in Big Bang Theory. So far, I've only done step one with that show - made the 1P for the local CBS only so I can keep it high priorty. No wishlist established. BUT, my Roamio keeps recording from the cable station, TBS. (Additional oddity - in the 1P, it is set for KUID, but the TBS records are not (thank goodness).) Any idea why those recordings are being done? My concern is that it is making those rerun recordings at a higher priority than I want for reruns and may cause a conflict. I don't have many conflicts with 4 tuners but they do happen.


----------



## Arcady

Are they suggestions?


----------



## DavidS

Arcady said:


> Are they suggestions?


Sorry, I meant to state in my first post that they are not suggestions. First thing I checked.

Since my first post, I went back and changed the 1P to make it New only and the TBS reruns are still scheduled to record.


----------



## trip1eX

DavidS said:


> Sorry, I meant to state in my first post that they are not suggestions. First thing I checked.
> 
> Since my first post, I went back and changed the 1P to make it New only and the TBS reruns are still scheduled to record.


I've noticed the same behavior when I changed some OnePasses.

My only thought was to delete your OnePass and create a new one because the problem might have something to do with OnePasses that were previously SeasonPasses.


----------



## Cactus Jim

I previously had about 6 season passes to record boxing on different channels. There are a few channels I don't want to record because they show repeats without guide data or stuff I'm not interested in. For instance showtime extreme and msg show a lot of things that are repeats but now the tivo is recording them even though my one pass is set to new. On my first day of having one pass I had to go in and delete about a dozen programs set to record. I only have 2 tuners and not much drive space. Is this what I have to deal with from here on like others who want some but not all events in certain sports?


----------



## Dan203

trip1eX said:


> I've noticed the same behavior when I changed some OnePasses.
> 
> My only thought was to delete your OnePass and create a new one because the problem might have something to do with OnePasses that were previously SeasonPasses.


It takes a bit of time for the To Do List to get updated. Give it a bit and they'll go away. (or at least they should)


----------



## jdmaxell

Just wanted to post my experience with the new OnePass. I have multiple season passes for Big Band Theory, Modern family, Dance Moms, and Two and a Half man. With "VERY" popular shows you tend to watch the "NEW" ones and the syndicated ones. Had all the season passes set to 10. And like many TIVO users you watch the new ones a day or two later (Original Tivo Concept). But when they switched over to OnePass, and combined SPs, it started recording all those shows using the same 10 counter. Since there are 50 Big Bangs, two and half men and Modern Family in syndication in a week, it quickly deleted the "new" ones I did not see yet. Thank you Tivo! Changed it to 25, but that is filled in a couple of days. Now, I need to "save until" for all the new ones. You need to come up with a solution (Suggestions does not work...Manual record help, but Modern Family and Big Band, are scattered through the channels and time slots. Need to come up with a way to pick individual channels in the OnePass section. Now, I like when new features are added, but old features should not be removed. Also, please involve more long time Tivo Users in the testing. Having employess beta test is not true testing. If Tivo keeps treating its hardware the way Cable companies treat theirs, it will not be around much longer. 

-Very Long Time Tivo Users who never posts, but is generally very happy with tivo until now!


----------



## lpwcomp

jdmaxell said:


> Just wanted to post my experience with the new OnePass. I have multiple season passes for Big Band Theory, Modern family, Dance Moms, and Two and a Half man. With "VERY" popular shows you tend to watch the "NEW" ones and the syndicated ones. Had all the season passes set to 10. And like many TIVO users you watch the new ones a day or two later (Original Tivo Concept). But when they switched over to OnePass, and combined SPs, it started recording all those shows using the same 10 counter. Since there are 50 Big Bangs, two and half men and Modern Family in syndication in a week, it quickly deleted the "new" ones I did not see yet. Thank you Tivo! Changed it to 25, but that is filled in a couple of days. Now, I need to "save until" for all the new ones. You need to come up with a solution (Suggestions does not work...Manual record help, but Modern Family and Big Band, are scattered through the channels and time slots. Need to come up with a way to pick individual channels in the OnePass section. Now, I like when new features are added, but old features should not be removed. Also, please involve more long time Tivo Users in the testing. Having employess beta test is not true testing. If Tivo keeps treating its hardware the way Cable companies treat theirs, it will not be around much longer.
> 
> -Very Long Time Tivo Users who never posts, but is generally very happy with tivo until now!


About the only thing you can do is set up a NEW only, KUID ARWL.


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## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> About the only thing you can do is set up a NEW only, KUID ARWL.


Doing that for SVU and several more. Today it recorded twp episodes from USA and set them to kuid even though it was set to new only and the episodes were many months old.


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## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Doing that for SVU and several more. Today it recorded twp episodes from USA and set them to kuid even though it was set to new only and the episodes were many months old.


Which 2 out of the 15 that were on today, the most recent of which was from 2011?


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## Dan203

jdmaxell said:


> Just wanted to post my experience with the new OnePass. I have multiple season passes for Big Band Theory, Modern family, Dance Moms, and Two and a Half man. With "VERY" popular shows you tend to watch the "NEW" ones and the syndicated ones. Had all the season passes set to 10. And like many TIVO users you watch the new ones a day or two later (Original Tivo Concept). But when they switched over to OnePass, and combined SPs, it started recording all those shows using the same 10 counter. Since there are 50 Big Bangs, two and half men and Modern Family in syndication in a week, it quickly deleted the "new" ones I did not see yet. Thank you Tivo! Changed it to 25, but that is filled in a couple of days. Now, I need to "save until" for all the new ones. You need to come up with a solution (Suggestions does not work...Manual record help, but Modern Family and Big Band, are scattered through the channels and time slots. Need to come up with a way to pick individual channels in the OnePass section. Now, I like when new features are added, but old features should not be removed. Also, please involve more long time Tivo Users in the testing. Having employess beta test is not true testing. If Tivo keeps treating its hardware the way Cable companies treat theirs, it will not be around much longer.
> 
> -Very Long Time Tivo Users who never posts, but is generally very happy with tivo until now!


Ouch, that sucks. I hadn't considered how it handled merging existing multi-SP setups. How did it handle the initial merge? I mean if you have 10 episodes of each and they are combined into a single 1P which is also set to 10 does it delete the oldest 10 immediately? As soon as one episode from the 1P is recorded? Or does it disassociate the existing recordings from the KAM setting like changing the keep until date does?


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## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> Which 2 out of the 15 that were on today, the most recent of which was from 2011?


One was S12 E12 (1/5/11) which aired at 8am.


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## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> One was S12 E12 (1/5/11) which aired at 8am.


The only possible explanation that I can think of is that when the episodes were added to the todo list, they had "generic" data and were for whatever reason not removed removed from the schedule when the data was corrected.


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## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> The only possible explanation that I can think of is that when the episodes were added to the todo list, they had "generic" data and were for whatever reason not removed removed from the schedule when the data was corrected.


Only the WL for new episodes specifies kuid. Strange that although the show had the green ball kuid indicator in the shows list it did NOT have the blue NEW flag following the episode name...


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## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Only the WL for new episodes specifies kuid. Strange that although the show had the green ball kuid indicator in the shows list it did NOT have the blue NEW flag following the episode name...


I Understand. What I was saying was that when they were scheduled, they possibly had "generic" guide data which are treated as "NEW" episodes for scheduling purposes. In any case, this seems like a bug.


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## astrohip

lpwcomp said:


> About the only thing you can do is set up a NEW only, KUID ARWL.


You could simply change the OP from All Channels to the channel that airs new episodes. Then you wouldn't need KUID, or have a danger from too many recording.


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## lpwcomp

astrohip said:


> You could simply change the OP from All Channels to the channel that airs new episodes. Then you wouldn't need KUID, or have a danger from too many recording.


Then he wouldn't get the other channel reruns he also wants.

Edit: I only suggested doing it that way because that's what the people who actually need it were suggesting. I actually thought from the beginning that it would be better to have a NEW only, channel specific, KUID 1P and a lower priority NEW & Repeats ARWL.

The only problem with either method is that you end up recording from channels you actually didn't want to record from, thus filling up the folder with stuff you didn't want. I'm trying to figure out exactly how it was working before because I thought that the limit was on the folder, not per SP.


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## mattack

jdmaxell said:


> Just wanted to post my experience with the new OnePass. I have multiple season passes for Big Band Theory, Modern family, Dance Moms, and Two and a Half man. With "VERY" popular shows you tend to watch the "NEW" ones and the syndicated ones. Had all the season passes set to 10. And like many TIVO users you watch the new ones a day or two later (Original Tivo Concept). But when they switched over to OnePass, and combined SPs, it started recording all those shows using the same 10 counter. Since there are 50 Big Bangs, two and half men and Modern Family in syndication in a week, it quickly deleted the "new" ones I did not see yet. Thank you Tivo! Changed it to 25, but that is filled in a couple of days. Now, I need to "save until" for all the new ones. You need to come up with a solution (Suggestions does not work...Manual record help, but Modern Family and Big Band, are scattered through the channels and time slots. Need to come up with a way to pick individual channels in the OnePass section. Now, I like when new features are added, but old features should not be removed. Also, please involve more long time Tivo Users in the testing. Having employess beta test is not true testing. If Tivo keeps treating its hardware the way Cable companies treat theirs, it will not be around much longer.
> 
> -Very Long Time Tivo Users who never posts, but is generally very happy with tivo until now!


I suggest you CALL Tivo and complain, and/or at least post about this on forums.tivo.com


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## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> Then he wouldn't get the other channel reruns he also wants.
> 
> Edit: I only suggested doing it that way because that's what the people who actually need it were suggesting. I actually thought from the beginning that it would be better to have a NEW only, channel specific, KUID 1P and a lower priority NEW & Repeats ARWL.
> 
> The only problem with either method is that you end up recording from channels you actually didn't want to record from, thus filling up the folder with stuff you didn't want. I'm trying to figure out exactly how it was working before because I thought that the limit was on the folder, not per SP.


Precisely. I want to record all new episodes without danger of them being overwritten. Repeats are on several channels. I want to record only those from USA. You may think that's nuts but it's MY TiVo and that's what I want to do.

Before TiVo screwed it up with 1P it was easy to record what I wanted to. No longer.


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## aaronwt

RoyK said:


> Precisely. I want to record all new episodes without danger of them being overwritten. Repeats are on several channels. I want to record only those from USA. You may think that's nuts but it's MY TiVo and that's what I want to do.


Just make sure thee drive doesn't get close to full then the shows won't be deleted. I have a bunch of shows from when I first got my Roamio Pro and Roamio Basic in 2013. I have them set for Keep until space needed. I have never needed to worry about them getting deleted. And my Roamio Pro records around five hundred shows every two week period. Most of those shows are set to keep one or two since they are mostly news programs.


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## RoyK

aaronwt said:


> Just make sure thee drive doesn't get close to full then the shows won't be deleted. I have a bunch of shows from when I first got my Roamio Pro and Roamio Basic in 2013. I have them set for Keep until space needed. I have never needed to worry about them getting deleted. And my Roamio Pro records around five hundred shows every two week period. Most of those shows are set to keep one or two since they are mostly news programs.


Thanks for the advice but in my case that's not an issue.


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## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Precisely. I want to record all new episodes without danger of them being overwritten. Repeats are on several channels. I want to record only those from USA. You may think that's nuts but it's MY TiVo and that's what I want to do.


Well, either method of making new episodes KUID prevents reruns from deleting new episodes. I personally think it is better to do that via the single channel 1P and a lower priority new & repeats ARWL.

No, I don't think you're crazy. Well, at least not for wanting to use your TiVo _*your*_ way. 



RoyK said:


> Before TiVo screwed it up with 1P it was easy to record what I wanted to. No longer.


See figure 1.

Something I miss that disappeared a release or 2 ago - the ability to create an episode specific ARWL directly from the episode list.


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## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> Well, either method of making new episodes KUID prevents reruns from deleting new episodes. I personally think it is better to do that via the single channel 1P and a lower priority new & repeats ARWL.
> 
> No, I don't think you're crazy. Well, at least not for wanting to use your TiVo _*your*_ way.
> 
> See figure 1.
> 
> Something I miss that disappeared a release or 2 ago - the ability to create an episode specific ARWL directly from the episode list.


Still don't see your logic. Can't specify a channel in a wl. New episodes are only on one channel so no need to specify a channel for them. On the other hand repeats are on several channels and I wish to record only one of them. I can still specify that in a 1p, at least until TiVo decides that is too complicated and forces it to all channels.


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## lpwcomp

RoyK said:


> Still don't see your logic. Can't specify a channel in a wl. New episodes are only on one channel so no need to specify a channel for them. On the other hand repeats are on several channels and I wish to record only one of them. I can still specify that in a 1p, at least until TiVo decides that is too complicated and forces it to all channels.


Depends on the series and channel. Some channels are remiss at providing full guide data for reruns of some series. What the scheduler treats as new includes entries with "generic" guide data. But I see your logic and it does make sense if you only want to record reruns from one channel. In any case, the entry that is setup for "New", be it wishlist or 1P, should have the higher priority AND, if you have a limit on the folder, set to KUID.


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## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> Depends on the series and channel. Some channels are remiss at providing full guide data for reruns of some series. What the scheduler treats as new includes entries with "generic" guide data. But I see your logic and it does make sense if you only want to record reruns from one channel. In any case, the entry that is setup for "New", be it wishlist or 1P, should have the higher priority AND, if you have a limit on the folder, set to KUID.


Exactly


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## lpwcomp

I should have said _*especially*_ if you have a limit on the folder. I'd set it to KUID in any case so NEW episodes won't be deleted even if you run low on disk space.


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## RoyK

lpwcomp said:


> I should have said _*especially*_ if you have a limit on the folder. I'd set it to KUID in any case so NEW episodes won't be deleted even if you run low on disk space.


Wl has always been set to kuid. I don't hoard programs so disk space is a non issue.


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## csell

jdmaxell said:


> Just wanted to post my experience with the new OnePass. I have multiple season passes for Big Band Theory, Modern family, Dance Moms, and Two and a Half man. With "VERY" popular shows you tend to watch the "NEW" ones and the syndicated ones. Had all the season passes set to 10. And like many TIVO users you watch the new ones a day or two later (Original Tivo Concept). But when they switched over to OnePass, and combined SPs, it started recording all those shows using the same 10 counter. Since there are 50 Big Bangs, two and half men and Modern Family in syndication in a week, it quickly deleted the "new" ones I did not see yet. Thank you Tivo! Changed it to 25, but that is filled in a couple of days. Now, I need to "save until" for all the new ones. You need to come up with a solution (Suggestions does not work...Manual record help, but Modern Family and Big Band, are scattered through the channels and time slots. Need to come up with a way to pick individual channels in the OnePass section. Now, I like when new features are added, but old features should not be removed. Also, please involve more long time Tivo Users in the testing. Having employess beta test is not true testing. If Tivo keeps treating its hardware the way Cable companies treat theirs, it will not be around much longer.
> 
> -Very Long Time Tivo Users who never posts, but is generally very happy with tivo until now!


Your description is exactly what this whole thread is about. I created this thread for the same reason you described and am equally disappointed...... But anyway, here is what I am doing which I don't like but it's working ->

Using Big Bang Theory as an example:
1) Create a OnePass for Big Bang Theory and specify New Shows only and set it to keep 5 or 10 at most.
2) Create a Wishlist where you specify the exact name of the title and select "Record all" (or whatever the exact setting is). You don't have to do this, but I renamed the Wishlist to "Reruns Big Bang Theory" and set it to record 10 at most.

Now it will record all new episodes and will keep up to 5 of them (and it won't include the reruns in that count). I will also use the wishlist to keep 10 episodes of reruns. Not perfect but will sort of work. You will notice that the Wishlist will also record the New episodes as well.


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## jdmaxell

Dan203 said:


> Ouch, that sucks. I hadn't considered how it handled merging existing multi-SP setups. How did it handle the initial merge? I mean if you have 10 episodes of each and they are combined into a single 1P which is also set to 10 does it delete the oldest 10 immediately? As soon as one episode from the 1P is recorded? Or does it disassociate the existing recordings from the KAM setting like changing the keep until date does?


As soon as one episode from the 1P is recorded! What sucks is I would of caught it, but TBS had a marathon with Big Bang and USA had one with Modern Family this weekend. If you did not get 1p yet, modify your season passes for new episodes now.


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## mattack

RoyK said:


> New episodes are only on one channel so no need to specify a channel for them.


Not true. I get NEW episodes of Nova on one of several PBS stations, for example. Yes, they _usually_ show up first on one of them, but can be caught later if there were conflicts for example.


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## dougl129

I have the same complaint. I've been using the wishlist option but find it unsatisfactory. Tivo needs to add the option to have multiple OnePasses for the same show.


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## joblo

Grakthis said:


> First, a work-around is a valid solution. Your distinction is without merit.
> 
> Second, make a thread for questioning TiVo business decisions then.


*DONE.*

The OP in this thread has the exact same issue as the OP here, *but that OP specifically asked for TiVos business rationale, which I explain in this post in that thread.*

*Meanwhile, in this thread, I will offer a workaround*  which I doubt most folks will like, but this is a workaround thread, and this is definitely that  for something has been often mentioned here but most recently, today, in that other thread:



RoyK said:


> Of all the workarounds the wishlist solution is the least sucky. At least it works sort of which is more than be said for the one offered by the person most responsible for the 1P design (use suggestions) that doesn't work at all. But good luck explaining to your wife why SVU and any other shows you use the workaround for have *two folders for each show each with the same contents.*


If you want to avoid duplicate recording in a 1P folder and a wish list folder, note that it has always been possible to set up single channel SPs and manual recordings on channels not in the received channel list, and although I havent verified that this behavior still holds with 1Ps  I leave that experiment to others here, because I have no need to do this myself at the moment  there is no reason to think this behavior has changed with 1P.

So you could set up a single channel 1P or manual recording, then delete that channel from your received channel list, then set up a wish list for the same program, and the 1P or manual recording should continue to record the show on the not received channel, while the wish list will only pick up the show on received channels. You will still have two folders, but the contents will not overlap.

Note that the sequencing is important here. If you already have a wish list you must turn off auto recording and then turn it on again AFTER the channel is removed from the received list in order to clear already scheduled recordings on that channel from the to do list. Also, there is a time lag between changes in the channel list and visibility for programming new recordings, so best to leave some time after channel list changes before enabling recording on wish lists.

I realize this is an ugly workaround  I said most folks probably wouldnt like it  but you can still look at channels you dont receive by enabling all channels in the channel guide, so I put this out there for anyone who may find it useful.

- - -

Finally, in answer to a question raised in this thread:



Jed1 said:


> why would Margret issue a bug fix for Season Pass, using the SD menu on the Premieres, if they were going to change the SD menu from SP to 1P.


Because the pass manager screen in the Classic UI  TiVos name for SD menus on the System Information screen  still says Season Pass Manager at the top, because the Classic UI cannot display streaming links. But despite retaining the old name, the underlying data structures are the same, and so you cannot use the Classic UI to create for than one SP/1P for the same program.

You can, however, still enable recording Everything through the Classic UI, and the New UI will recognize and display that choice in the 1P manager. And I can assure you that Everything not only works with 1P on Premieres, but it works more reliably than before because a bug in that functionality has now, at long last, been fixed.

Ironic, eh?


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## joblo

*Apparently, TiVo did implement multiple 1Ps per show, but disabled them prior to release.*


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