# Copying old Bolt drive to new larger drive...



## Motty99 (Jun 26, 2014)

what is needed to do this?...MFSTools?...if someone can point me to a tutorial, the Karma gods will give you great goodness...


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

MFSTools 3.2 is not yet perfect for saving recorded content. The best way is to copy them to a PC/another Tivo. Tivo Desktop, PyTivo has server capability for transfer back to Tivo, and from Tivo. KMTTG is best for copy to PC (does not work the other way.)

However, Tivo Desktop has lost Tivo support so no help from them.


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## Motty99 (Jun 26, 2014)

yeah, I'm guessing that would be one way but want to just copy to new HD and go...so there is nothing out there that will allow for this to happen with a Bolt?


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

ThAbtO said:


> MFSTools 3.2 is not yet perfect for saving recorded content. The best way is to copy them to a PC/another Tivo. Tivo Desktop, PyTivo has server capability for transfer back to Tivo, and from Tivo. KMTTG is best for copy to PC (does not work the other way.)
> 
> However, Tivo Desktop has lost Tivo support so no help from them.


Is there anything yet which can "dd" a Bolt drive to a bigger one and then turn the extra space into another MFS Media partition or expand an existing MFS Media partition to incorporate that extra space?

Assuming the Bolt uses a partition scheme similar to previous TiVo models.


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## gus2000 (Sep 14, 2016)

ThAbtO said:


> MFSTools 3.2 is not yet perfect for saving recorded content. The best way is to copy them to a PC/another Tivo...


What exactly does "not yet perfect" mean? I'm in the TWC jail and cannot copy between TiVos.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

gus2000 said:


> What exactly does "not yet perfect" mean? I'm in the TWC jail and cannot copy between TiVos.


I'm curious too. I thought it worked quite well up to its 4TB limit.


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## Motty99 (Jun 26, 2014)

so to reiterate, there is no solution yet to copy a Bolt drive over to a larger drive with all programs and setting?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

MFSTools 3.2 will do this up to 4TB drive for Roamio and Bolts.


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## gus2000 (Sep 14, 2016)

Thanks, I'm going to attempt the Premiere-->Bolt copy this week.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

gus2000 said:


> Thanks, I'm going to attempt the Premiere-->Bolt copy this week.


You cannot use MFSTools to copy between unlike units.


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## gus2000 (Sep 14, 2016)

Oh. That sux


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

jmbach said:


> MFSTools 3.2 will do this up to 4TB drive for Roamio and Bolts.


You sure about that? I tried copying the original 500GB Bolt drive to a 1.5TB drive and a 4TB drive, both gave me an error saying unable to write to the destination drive. Never had that problem using MFST 3.2 copying Roamio drives.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> You sure about that? I tried copying the original 500GB Bolt drive to a 1.5TB drive and a 4TB drive, both gave me an error saying unable to write to the destination drive. Never had that problem using MFST 3.2 copying Roamio drives.


Note, I used mfstool copy -ai /dev/sdX /dev/sdY. Got the unable to write error. I was able to get the 4TB drive working without doing the copy using MFS Reformatter, 639 HD hours I think. But would like to copy my original drive/settings/recordings.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

tommage1 said:


> You sure about that? I tried copying the original 500GB Bolt drive to a 1.5TB drive and a 4TB drive, both gave me an error saying unable to write to the destination drive. Never had that problem using MFST 3.2 copying Roamio drives.


After some testing by other TCF members, MFSTools has an issue with the Bolts 0 size partitions that prevents it from completing the copy or backup processes. Once that issue is fixed it should work.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

I see, thanks. So the issue is MFSTools itself and could be fixed in the future? What would be the best place to monitor the progress of this, I assume some forum here? The error was something like "internal error opening partition /dev/sdaXXXXXXXXXXX for writing" I assume no other way to copy a Bolt drive at this point then? Other than transferring recordings and transferring back etc which would not preserve settings?


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

jmbach said:


> After some testing by other TCF members, MFSTools has an issue with the Bolts 0 size partitions that prevents it from completing the copy or backup processes. Once that issue is fixed it should work.


Oh cr*p. Since the copies did not work I put my 500GB drive back in. EVERYTHING IS GONE, recordings, settings, wishlists.............. Some irreplaceable  Wonder what could have caused that, I did not "copy" to the wrong drive, I was very careful. Have no idea what could have caused this, I am sick.............................


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

Not sure. Did the unit want to reformat the drive? 
Don't want anyone else to have the same problem so will add a warning note to the download post. 
As soon as I can get a Bolt image to test on I will see if we can fix this issue.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't know for sure, I doubt it. I put in the original drive and left the room for a few minutes. When I came back there was a screen saying connect to the service, there is no guide data (which should have been totally up to date.) I then started looking and saw most everything was gone, settings, recordings, season passes, wish lists etc. After my last post I checked things further, it preserved the custom name I had given the DVR AND my "to do" list was still there. When I checked the to do list it was the shows from of my season passes, but the passes themselves were gone. I will try to list what I did. I guess the problem is either something with MFSTools OR the OS on a chip/relationship with whatever drive is in there.

First pulled the 500GB drive with recordings etc (after putting Bolt in standby and unplugging it) Then tried MFSTools to copy the 500GB to the 4TB. Didn't work as I mentioned. Tried copying the 500GB to 1.5TB. Didn't work. So I decided to let the Tivo Bolt format the 4TB and the 1.5 drives and try again. It did the 4TB (was pretty fast). An interesting note, when I did guided setup it had preserved my custom name for the Bolt. There was only about 2TB available though. I then let it format the 1.5TB, no problems I could see, preserved the name again (I did guided setup on both). I used MFS reformat on the 4TB, popped it back in, full 4TB showed (639 HD hours). Now that the 4TB and 1.5TB were properly formatted by the Bolt (I assume), I hoped the MFSTools copy would work. It did not, on either, the internal error unable to write thing. I checked back here, noticed my post has been replied to, MFSTools copy is not working on the Bolt at this time. So put my 500GB back in, that's when I saw most everything was gone (other than custom name and 12 days of "to do" list.)

So problem could be something with MFSTools. Or I could be totally wrong but it might be that relationship between the OS and whatever drive is in there at the time? I know my 500 was ok when I pulled it, practically new. When I shut it down the OS was thinking the 500GB was still in there. When I put in the say the 1.5TB and powered back up the OS was expecting the 500GB but saw a 1.5TB. It then formatted the 1.5 (again it did preserve my custom name for the Bolt). Run guided setup. So now OS is "setup" with the 1.5 drive. Then pull out the 1.5 and put in the original 500GB, the OS is expecting the mostly blank 1.5. OS now sees the 500, maybe IT somehow erased all the settings/recordings etc? I don't really know how it works, but it's one or the other I think, problem with MFSTools copy or the relationship between the chip OS and whatever drive is in there.

If it is the OS chip/current drive in there relationship that would mean if you pull a drive to upgrade to another drive, then for some reason put the original back in it would wipe your recordings/settings on the original. So really no way to have a backup/semi clone drive. I wonder about Roamio now too, When I upgraded those drives the MFSTools copies worked. So I never put the originals back in, just set them aside as "backups". Wonder if the same thing (erasing most everything) would happen if I put the "backups" back into the Roamio. I am NOT going to try it, about 2TB of recordings on each (current drives and the backups). If it erased most of the backup and setup for the backup drive, then even if I put in the upgraded drive it might wipe that too? Maybe I'm off base totally on this and it is just the MFStools problem with Bolt drives, I'll leave that to the experts here. But if your going to be swapping drives don't do it with an original you have recording on you want keep, maybe try the process with a nearly new machine/test recordings/settings.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

One final thing, when I put the 500GB original back in I don't THINK I had to do guided setup again. I just connected to Tivo, it did "add channels" again but then just updated the guide data etc. I'm pretty sure I didn't have to do the guided setup but was so upset at the time I don't remember everything I did.................


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

jmbach said:


> Not sure. Did the unit want to reformat the drive?
> Don't want anyone else to have the same problem so will add a warning note to the download post.
> As soon as I can get a Bolt image to test on I will see if we can fix this issue.


Since I have the Bolt open, the original 500GB lost the recordings and I have the 3 drives available I decided to do a few more tests. Did not use MFSTools for these tests.

First put in the 500GB. No recordings/season passes etc. Created some season passes, did some recordings, created wish lists. Shut it down and pulled the drive.

Then put in the 1.5TB. Same process, made season passes/wishlists and did some recordings (different wish lists/one passes than the 500GB). Pulled the drive.

Then the 4TB. Same process. Noticed something strange, the one passes I had created when the 500GB was in there were in the one pass list!! However when I clicked on them the screen just flashed, could do nothing with them. The shows for these one passes were in the "do to" list also.

Now the big test, pulled the 4TB and put in the 500GB. Sure enough all recordings gone, got wiped again. So I guess it was not MFSTools that did it the first time. Seems if putting in a new drive at any point forget about keeping the old as a backup, at least for recordings. Again strange one pass list, the shows I had added when I had the 500GB installed the first time were there but could not click on them or do anything with them. The shows I had added when the 4TB was in there were still there and I was able to click/alter them. Very confusing.

Conclusion for me, forget about swapping drives if you want to keep anything, only for an upgrade/replacement and starting fresh. Don't bother keeping original as a backup, at least as far as recordings go. l will test a bit further, put in the 1.5TB and 4TB again to see if the recordings get wiped and what happens with the one pass/wish lists. Gee, nothing like swapping/upgrading drives with my old series 1,2,3, swap/backup/upgrade all you want 

I think for now I will just use the 1.5TB since it has a 1 year warranty, the 4TB does not, was pulled from one of those Seagate externals. I guess I should clear and delete everything and hope that clears up all the strange wish list/one pass issues and maybe anything else that might be messed up. Once it is ready to go, fresh, I will NOT be swapping any drives in and out for a long time unless I want to start over completely. For sure would transfer any recordings to one of my Roamios first, At least MFSTools was not the culprit for me losing the recordings on my original 500GB, something to do with the relationship between the drives/OS on a chip/server I guess. I wonder if the same thing would happen if this process was done with the Roamios since they have the OS on a chip too? I will NOT be testing that, over 2TB of recordings on each Roamio and on the backups. If I ever get a fresh Roamio I may try it for fun, if same thing happens my 2TB backups are worthless, might as well use the drives for something else.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Final update for now. Put in the 4TB and then the 1.5TB drives. Again all recordings got wiped. Again wacky One Passes, some from when other drives in there, some show up twice (same One Pass), some can access and modify, some screen just flashes, can do nothing with them. I left in the 1.5TB, cleared and deleted everything (even then my custom DVR name stayed and my video provider settings, those must be on the server?) All looks good, fresh start, will leave cover off a few days to see how it goes (hate those clips/prying, please go back to just removing screws and the cover comes off). Won't be doing any drive swapping for awhile that's for sure. Maybe when MFSTools is updated so it can copy/expand a Bolt drive and/or when my warranty runs out on the 1.5TB. Want the 4TB in there eventually


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

tommage1 said:


> Since I have the Bolt open, the original 500GB lost the recordings and I have the 3 drives available I decided to do a few more tests. Did not use MFSTools for these tests.
> 
> First put in the 500GB. No recordings/season passes etc. Created some season passes, did some recordings, created wish lists. Shut it down and pulled the drive.
> 
> ...


Very interesting and thanks for the testing. 
What happens if you set up the 500GB drive with recordings and such. The copy it with dd to another drive. Place that drive in the unit. Then pull that drive and put the original drive back in.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

jmbach said:


> Very interesting and thanks for the testing.
> What happens if you set up the 500GB drive with recordings and such. The copy it with dd to another drive. Place that drive in the unit. Then pull that drive and put the original drive back in.


To be honest I don't remember how to copy a drive with dd. Might have done that in my series 2/3 days before WinMFS but don't remember how I did it. Not sure I want to do anymore at this time since I have the 1.5TB setup the way I want it now. But you never know, if you want to outline what I would do maybe I will try it sometime (no guarantee, but even if not someone else here may try it). The thing that bugged/surprised me was how the Tivo itself (or some sort of combination of the way the drive/OS on chip/server relate) wiped all the recordings. I had always figured if I pulled an HD from a device and did nothing to alter it it would function as it was if/when I put it back in the device. Obviously not true with a Tivo Bolt


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

tommage1 said:


> To be honest I don't remember how to copy a drive with dd. Might have done that in my series 2/3 days before WinMFS but don't remember how I did it. Not sure I want to do anymore at this time since I have the 1.5TB setup the way I want it now. But you never know, if you want to outline what I would do maybe I will try it sometime (no guarantee, but even if not someone else here may try it). The thing that bugged/surprised me was how the Tivo itself (or some sort of combination of the way the drive/OS on chip/server relate) wiped all the recordings. I had always figured if I pulled an HD from a device and did nothing to alter it it would function as it was if/when I put it back in the device. Obviously not true with a Tivo Bolt


The Bolts store more information on the internal flash drive than the Roamios do. So I will have to wonder even if we fix the 0 byte partition issue with MFSTools, will a copy work or will we have the same issues and recordings lost on both drives. This is something I think telemark, if he has time, could help figure out.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Things like this interest me. I would have tried the dd thing if I hadn't already setup the 1.5TB, hate to go through all that again. Never know though, maybe sometime in the future, if I had another Bolt I'd do it now. Same with Roamio, if I ever get another I'd try these things before I set it up for use. So the OS and probably some settings are on a flash drive, not flashed onto a chip? So it's probably getting flashed regularly, if on a chip I would have figured just when there was some software/firmware update. Or maybe I don't really understand how that really works, I was a programmer back in the day but that was a long time ago. I would be interested to see how this progresses if you all do more work, is there a thread you would be posting updates?


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

jmbach said:


> The Bolts store more information on the internal flash drive than the Roamios do. So I will have to wonder even if we fix the 0 byte partition issue with MFSTools, will a copy work or will we have the same issues and recordings lost on both drives. This is something I think telemark, if he has time, could help figure out.


One more question for you. As I said I thought the OS was on a chip and would only be flashed occasionally. However it seems there is a flash drive which may be getting "flashed" all the time. So two possible "drive failures", the hard drive and the flash drive? If the hard drive fails can just pop in a new one and have the Bolt or Roamio format it. But what if the flash drive fails? Is it replaceable or would that be curtains for the Tivo? If flash drive failure means dead Tivo would almost consider going back to a Premier. Issue mostly for lifetime subscriptions, easy to replace a hard drive and be up and running on Premier and earlier, maybe not so if flash drive fails on a Roamio/Bolt?


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

You are correct in that there are now two points of failure as far as drives go. If the flash drive fails, it requires a trip back to TiVo for repair. Unless, of course, you can do SMD work and happen to have a backup of the OS handy.


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