# TiVo is working on a fix for transferred shows that freeze while playing



## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Thanks to @TiVo_Ted, TiVo is now aware of our problem with transferred shows freezing when we attempt to play them on the Bolt TE4.

They set up several pairs of boxes and, after a couple of days, were able to reproduce the problem intermittently. There is more than one cause, including signal glitches in source programs that the TiVo transfer process can't handle, and "security key association" problems. They also observed the issue where two duplicate copies of a transferred program sometimes appear. They are continuing to investigate.

A fix will have to be incorporated into a future client release.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

The duplicate copies is a client issue?


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## rpj22 (Mar 27, 2016)

Phil_C said:


> Thanks to @TiVo_Ted, TiVo is now aware of our problem with transferred shows freezing when we attempt to play them on the Bolt TE4.
> 
> They set up several pairs of boxes and, after a couple of days, were able to reproduce the problem intermittently. There is more than one cause, including signal glitches in source programs that the TiVo transfer process can't handle, and "security key association" problems. They also observed the issue where two duplicate copies of a transferred program sometimes appear. They are continuing to investigate.
> 
> A fix will have to be incorporated into a future client release.


I love that they are finally looking into this, but I'm not sure that those causes sound right. Does it seem right that a security key issue wouldn't manifest itself until well into the program? Doesn't it seem awfully coincidental that so many programs, recorded from different sources, years apart, by multiple people, would all have a signal glitch at the eleven minute mark?


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Since you all want to analyze every word, here is the direct quote from TiVo_Ted:

As an update, we have been able to recreate this problem and have discovered 3 discrete issues so far:

If there is a signal glitch in the source program, that can screw up the destination copy from that point onward.
On some programs, 2 copies show up on the destination device for each source (i.e. dupes).
A security key issue where a later segment in a program is associated with the key from an earlier segment. This causes playback to fail due to security reasons.
All of these are transient issues that do not occur regularly and do not always reproduce. We are continuing to investigate, but these fixes will clearly need to come out in a new client release.​
Dissect away!!


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I've watch many transfers using TiVo Online between Series4 and Series5, with and without TE4. To say that two copies "show up" isn't how I would phrase it. I see the same program show up twice in my To Do List. That's a client issue? Yes, they are dupes, but it's because two copies were requested. Maybe Online has developed a stutter.

As for items 1 and 3, I don't have a Bolt.

Searching, I find a post from 12/2016 observing duplicate files.
Problems transferring recordings from Romio to Bolt


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## rpj22 (Mar 27, 2016)

Phil_C said:


> Since you all want to analyze every word, here is the direct quote from TiVo_Ted:
> 
> As an update, we have been able to recreate this problem and have discovered 3 discrete issues so far:
> 
> ...


Analyzing and dissecting minutia is how most bugs are found. As I used to explain to my clients, who would never supply detailed error messages and such when there was a glitch, one doesn't find software bugs by sticking a thermometer in the computer. Most of them require detective work.

The interesting thing in the more detailed report was the additional detail on the security key issue. If he is saying that they do some kind of chaining of segments, that could make some sense, but I certainly wouldn't have expected them to operate that way. (In part because it would make these transfers even more fragile, which could be what we are seeing.) There do seem to be a couple of people around this forum who have a programmer level understanding of TiVo's encryption. I hope one of them sees this and weighs in.

I still think that, in addition to what they have now, they are going to eventually find some kind of Data Typing or Structure problem in their video file headers, or resource forks, or whatever they call them. (Essentially that the Hydra programmers and the TE3 programmers are not using the same assumptions about the file layout.)

I forgot to ask before --- If the fix for this is going to wait for a big software release (which is completely plausible to me) are they going to offer any relief to the people who can't get all of their files off of their old TiVo by the time they are to be deactivated on September 7?


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

rpj22 said:


> I forgot to ask before --- If the fix for this is going to wait for a big software release (which is completely plausible to me) are they going to offer any relief to the people who can't get all of their files off of their old TiVo by the time they are to be deactivated on September 7?


A probable Q1 release was mentioned. As for relief in the interim, I would suggest that folks affected with this issue try to contact TiVo_Ted. I'm not sure he will weigh in here in the forum. He said he has been swamped lately and is unable to spend much time in TCF. He did respond to my PM.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

The reported timing (11 minutes, 22 minutes, etc) has always struck me as something to do with commercial breaks, and recent posts that transfer failures seem to happen at skip mode points would seem to support that theory. It's quite common to have timing issues or even resolution changes during the breaks, which is why everything that I transfer to my PC goes through VideoReDo's QuickStream Fix before I process it any further.

Now that they're working on the issue I would expect a fix in the next update.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I was close: Transferring from Roameo to new Bolt - problems, and how?


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## rpj22 (Mar 27, 2016)

ggieseke said:


> The reported timing (11 minutes, 22 minutes, etc) has always struck me as something to do with commercial breaks, and recent posts that transfer failures seem to happen at skip mode points would seem to support that theory. It's quite common to have timing issues or even resolution changes during the breaks, which is why everything that I transfer to my PC goes through VideoReDo's QuickStream Fix before I process it any further.
> 
> Now that they're working on the issue I would expect a fix in the next update.


I first started noticing anomalies about a year ago and always wondered if the video file header problem that I theorized had started with whatever adjustments they made to make room for the skip mode data in the file. It wouldn't have to manifest itself only at skip points, though. My failures certainly don't. Depending on the details, there could be any number of symptoms. And it doesn't require a program to actually use skip mode ... only for Hydra to be interpreting the file header wrong.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

rpj22 said:


> And it doesn't require a program to actually use skip mode ... only for Hydra to be interpreting the file header wrong.


Yup. I have PBS and HBO shows (no commercials) that freeze.


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Phil_C said:


> Yup. I have PBS and HBO shows (no commercials) that freeze.


That throws out my theory.


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## Reality Check (Sep 4, 2018)

I'm seeing this transferred-recordings-freeze-during-playback bug with recordings I'm moving to my new BOLT VOX from my old Premiere. I transferred a couple dozen or so recordings. I didn't notice the problem until weeks later when I noticed some transferred recordings freeze ... often around the 10 or 11-minute mark, but also at other points much further into the recording (e.g. more like 30 to 40 minutes).

• only some transferred recordings freeze upon playback
• the point at which playback of a particular recording freezes is consistent and persistent (reboot, power-cycle, repeated playback attempts, skipping, etc. have no effect on the "freeze point")
• repeatedly deleting such a recording and re-transferring it can (at least once) result in a good (fully-playable) copy or, more often, just a different "freeze point" (e.g. it froze at 0:10 before, delete, re-transfer, and it freezes at 0:31 or 0:44 or back to 0:10 on successive re-transfers)
• that fact that the "freeze point" changes to either earlier or later (or even disappear) in the exact same recording for successive transfer attempts, suggests the bug is not with the source but (at least in part) with the transfer process ... some type of real-time programming bug, buffer(s) overflowing, critical section not fully/correctly protected by semaphores, etc.
• freezing occurs with commercial-free recordings too


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The security key issue is probably the hardest for them to fix. This is a delicate dance between them and CableLabs and if they update their security system at all I believe they have to pay to have it re-certified by CableLabs. Given that the problem is intermittent and CableCARD is on it's last leg, I wonder if they'll even bother.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Dan203 said:


> The security key issue is probably the hardest for them to fix. This is a delicate dance between them and CableLabs and if they update their security system at all I believe they have to pay to have it re-certified by CableLabs. Given that the problem is intermittent and CableCARD is on it's last leg, I wonder if they'll even bother.


But why just on Bolt?

And why is the Standby bug just on TE3?

Some strange stuff.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> But why just on Bolt?
> 
> And why is the Standby bug just on TE3?
> 
> Some strange stuff.


Yeah not sure about that. I have issues with my Bolt we do not have with my Wife's Roamio Pro.


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## Reality Check (Sep 4, 2018)

Ok, I've had time to do some more checks.

Recall that with the Premiere, there were two inputs: one for cable and one for antenna (OTA = over the air) content.

So my old Premiere has a mixture of recordings. Mostly off Comcast/Xfinity cable, but also numerous ones off the (unscrambled, no security keys!) over-the-air (OTA) antenna. So I've got a 1-hour HD OTA documentary recording from Channel 9-1 (SF Bay Area PBS TV station KQEDDT) that I've transferred from the Premiere to the Bolt.

Playback of this recording is freezing right now at the 10:55 mark (and it's commercial free).

I delete this recording from the Bolt and re-transfer it from the Premiere using the web-based TiVo Online service.

Upon playing back this newly-retransferred recording on the Bolt, it is again freezing at the 10:55 mark.

Anyway, the point of all this is to say that since this is a totally free program recorded off the antenna input of the Premiere, the problem is not (or is not limited to) an issue having to do with encryption or playback rights or key management. Nothing to do with the cable card or CableLabs.


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## rpj22 (Mar 27, 2016)

Dan203 said:


> The security key issue is probably the hardest for them to fix. This is a delicate dance between them and CableLabs and if they update their security system at all I believe they have to pay to have it re-certified by CableLabs. Given that the problem is intermittent and CableCARD is on it's last leg, I wonder if they'll even bother.


What do they mean by "update?" Modify the source code? Keep the same source, but recompile? If they broke it when they moved it to Hydra, it sounds like they may have already modified it, whether intentional or not. Or did Cable Labs somehow certify the Hydra version, or the entire box, even though it has bugs?

Do you know the answer to my questions about TiVo_Ted's statement? If the keys on later segments are not the same as earlier ones, it sounds like they are doing some kind of block or key chaining. And this application doesn't seem like a good fit for that.


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## Reality Check (Sep 4, 2018)

Another observation: I transferred all 8 episodes of BBC America's "Planet Earth: Blue Planet II" (CC, R, SAP, HD, 720p, with commercials) on Comcast/Xfinity from my old Premiere to my new Bolt VOX.

Here are the episode by episode results when I try to play these transferred recordings on the Bolt VOX:

Episode 1 (recorded on 1/25): playback freeze at 00:33:06 of a 1:30:00 recording (during commercial)
Episode 2 (recorded on 1/28): playback freeze at 00:21:38 of a 1:30:00 recording (NOT during commerical)
Episode 3 (recorded on 2/04): entire 1:30:00 recording plays OK
Episode 4 (recorded on 2/10): entire 1:30:00 recording plays OK
Episode 5 (recorded on 2/17): entire 1:30:00 recording plays OK
Episode 6 (recorded on 2/24): entire 1:30:00 recording plays OK
Episode 7 (recorded on 3/10): playback freeze at 00:10:16 of a 01:00:00 "making of" recording (NOT during commerical)
Episode 8 (recorded on 6/30): playback freeze at 00:10:17 of a 02:00:00 "best of" recording (NOT during commerical)

I tried deleting the freezing episodes 1, 2 and 7 and re-transferring. Each freezes again in exactly the same place.

In an earlier posting, I described how the freezing problem also occurs with commercial-free HD recordings which were broadcast over the air (OTA) and "in the clear" via the antenna input (no content protection or security keys, no cable card needed or involved).


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## Reality Check (Sep 4, 2018)

Here's the next possibly significant observation:

Using the old Premiere, the box that the transferred recording was originally recorded on, I can play the original recording just fine from the Premiere's "My Shows" list (Premiere's hard disc).

But when I stream that same recording after being transferred to the Bolt from the Premiere (selecting the Bolt at the bottom of the Premiers's "My Shows" list, and then selecting the transferred copy of the original recording sitting on the Bolt's hard disc), then it freezes in exactly the same place as when attempting to play back "natively" on the Bolt.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Once a recording is damaged in the transfer process, it stays damaged. You can transfer it back to the original unit, to a phone or to a PC -- or stream it to another TiVo -- and it will freeze in the same place.


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## Bill_O (Oct 26, 2018)

Phil_C said:


> Once a recording is damaged in the transfer process, it stays damaged. You can transfer it back to the original unit, to a phone or to a PC -- or stream it to another TiVo -- and it will freeze in the same place.


I too have experienced the problem of recordings being damaged in the transfer process to the point of freezing during attempted playback and can't understand why it is still not resolved, if someone is working on it. It appears that the file is damaged through a recoding operation in the transfer rather than the transfer doing some form of copy. Likely there was some glitch in the original program (which happens at somewhat random times) but which playback software is able to handle. The transfer software probably makes it worse in the transferred recording to the point that the playback software can't handle it and for a particular transferred recording will always freeze at that same point. It is hard to believe that any technician with an average ability could not solve the problem in a couple of days. I have asked customer service for an update and all they can tell me is that the engineering team is working on it.


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## Fubduck (Sep 21, 2014)

This is also happening with shows transferred from a Roamio OTA to a Bolt OTA. Multiple shows have failed at the 10-11 minute mark. A re-transfer did not fix the issue.

Edit: Watching across the network from the Roamio through the Bolt works fine.


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## bars&tone (Mar 25, 2018)

Has anyone heard of any updates on this? I just got a Bolt and am having the same issue when trying to transfer programs from my Roamio. Most programs that i'm trying to transfer freeze after 10 minutes. (although one froze after 20 minutes), and then other programs playback without issue. There doesn't seem to be any obvious logic for what's wrong. I had two 30 minutes episodes of "Black-ish" that I transferred. One plays all the way through, the other freezes at 10 minutes. I made sure to try transferring programs one at a time in case transferring in batch caused an issue, but that's not making a difference.


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## bars&tone (Mar 25, 2018)

After several hours on the phone troubleshooting with tech support, i found the fix on this thread:

Bolt Freezes on some recordings

downgrading from Hydra fixed it for me. I have since transferred 10 programs that were always problematic before, and they're all playing through.


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## SamD (Jan 28, 2007)

Any news about playable transfers under Hydra? I'm asking because (as far as I understand) downgrading to TE3 will erase all existing files?


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## mlsnyc (Dec 3, 2009)

When I want to watch a recording on my main TiVo, I just stream it on the Bolt with Hydra instead of transferring. I had been seeing this freezing problem with transferred recordings which I thought was a problem with hydra as a whole. I didn’t realize until I saw these threads it was specific to transferred shows.

I find streaming awesome with a few very tolerable exceptions:
- occasional sub second pause and pixelation, probably when the stream has a hiccup; it is barely noticeable and more than worth it for autoskip
- need to set autoskip every time; but this is barely annoying since you can turn it on from the info screen


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## rgcarterva (Oct 5, 2016)

I figured how a solution to this. About 10% of my recordings would transfer but hang in the 10-20 minute range on playback. Here are the steps that worked for me to resolve the issue:

1. After I had transferred over the 90% that were working (and confirmed that they were), I used PyTivo to download the "PS" version (Settings->TiVoToGo->Transfer Format->Program Stream) of the remaining 10% to my Mac. I don't know if the default TS version would also work but I had read that TS is not as reliable so I figured I'd try the PS version as I had success in the past with PyTivo and transferring PS versions to my Roamio.
2. I then rolled back my Roamio to the old operating software (How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1). Please note that this will delete everything off of your Roamio so make sure you've transferred via online.tivo.com or downloaded via PyTivo everything you want off of there, including OnePass settings, etc... because once you do this, there's no going back.
3. After I restored the old operating system on the Roamio , I was able to "pull" the saved PS version of the recordings from PyTivo (My Shows->Devices->Tivo Recordings) to the Roamio.
4. I was then able to use online.tivo.com to transfer from my Roamio to my Bolt (which was still on Hydra) and there were no playback issues after the transfer was complete.

My best guess is that the PS format is more forgiving of errors and perhaps when using online.tivo.com initially it doesn't use that version but I don't know. It also could have been that I didn't set back up my Expander on the Roamio when I rolled back as I didn't need the extra space for the few shows that still needed to transfer. Perhaps the way that the TiVo stores these files across the two hard disks is what caused the freezing. I don't know what did the trick but the steps above definitely worked for me.


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

The step that worked for you was downgrading to TE3. A year later TE4 and transferring is still only through online and still borked, yes?


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## edwinyuen (Dec 30, 2010)

elorimer said:


> The step that worked for you was downgrading to TE3. A year later TE4 and transferring is still only through online and still borked, yes?


Sure seems like it. I transferred about 2TB of shows from my old Roamio to my TE4 Bolt and I have shows messed up all over. No rhyme or reason. Pretty frustrating.


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## rgcarterva (Oct 5, 2016)

Just to clarify, I didn't roll back the Bolt. I PyTivo'ed from the Roamio to my computer, then rolled the Roamio back, then PyTivo'ed back to the Roamio and then transferred to the Bolt.


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## edwinyuen (Dec 30, 2010)

rgcarterva said:


> Just to clarify, I didn't roll back the Bolt. I PyTivo'ed from the Roamio to my computer, then rolled the Roamio back, then PyTivo'ed back to the Roamio and then transferred to the Bolt.


I never upgraded my Roamio to TE4, it's still on TE3. I guess I could try pulling it off and putting back a PS version, then doing the transfer again to the Bolt.

Also, does anyone know if this is ALL Bolt transfers? Does it have problems doing TE4 Bolt to TE4 Bolt?


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## RunNBark (Jul 29, 2019)

I just bought a new Bolt and upgraded to 3TB Toshiba no problem. TiVo online transferred onepasses from Roamio no problem. Both are Hydra.

I was having troubles with TiVo online transferring "all" recordings from my Roamio to my Bolt, but think I found a solution:
Restart both units and force connection. Then go to TiVo Online, Manage, Transfer Recordings, tick "all", wait for all programs to show (page down to the bottom until no more shows load), then un-tick TiVo suggested recordings (I un-ticked them all since there were only about 20), transfer to Bolt and hit Transfer. It may look like nothing happens, but wait a bit and shows start to show up one by one on the Bolt. I checked a few transferred recordings and they are there in their entirety. I hope this works for others transferring programs to their new Bolt!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

RunNBark said:


> I checked a few transferred recordings and they are there in their entirety.


Did you watch any of them all the way through, to confirm that they don't suffer from the lockup problem?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

RunNBark said:


> It may look like nothing happens, but wait a bit and shows start to show up one by one on the Bolt. I checked a few transferred recordings and they are there in their entirety. I hope this works for others transferring programs to their new Bolt!


You can view the receiving TiVo's To Do List and see all the programs after a few seconds.


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## RunNBark (Jul 29, 2019)

krkaufman said:


> Did you watch any of them all the way through, to confirm that they don't suffer from the lockup problem?


I did, and they are damaged at the 10 min mark
At least I can watch them from my old device.


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## buildersboy66 (Dec 9, 2016)

Well over 1 yr and it still does not work. Ads are more important to implement. Why bother offering it when it clearly ruins your recordings.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Still not fixed in 21.9.6.v5.


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

Phil_C said:


> Thanks to @TiVo_Ted, TiVo is now aware of our problem with transferred shows freezing when we attempt to play them on the Bolt TE4.
> 
> They set up several pairs of boxes and, after a couple of days, were able to reproduce the problem intermittently. There is more than one cause, including signal glitches in source programs that the TiVo transfer process can't handle, and "security key association" problems. They also observed the issue where two duplicate copies of a transferred program sometimes appear. They are continuing to investigate.
> 
> A fix will have to be incorporated into a future client release.


Will this ever get solved. I just bought a Bolt and I have transferred shows from my Roamio to my Bolt and my shows don't play on the Bolt. WTF? The shows begin to play, and at some point, they stop and freeze for no ****ing reason. I go to the App and watch there and no problems. SO what the **** is going on? Oh you don't like the language, then allow me to seak with somebody who understand the words coming out of my mout because TiVo support is a pile of horse ****.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

It is now 20 months since TiVo's testing confirmed the transfer issue. I was told it would be fixed in the 1st quarter -- of 2019.


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

This guy is full of ****. It have everything to do with the new “experience” they have. I transferred programs from a Premiere to a Bolt, and yes they froze in the same place each time when watching on the bolt. But if I stream the bolt on my phone, program plays fine. 

Also, If you downgrade you new experience TiVo on the Bolt to the old one, and transfer the programs from the Premiere, everything is fine. The shows play correctly. When you then upgrade again to the new experience they play fine. TiVo is a **** company that does not care about their customers. Just look at their **** call center. No way to talk to anybody that has a clue how the TiVo works at all. If I could buy my cable box and not lease I’d dump TiVo. Just a ****ty company run by ****ty people who don’t give a ****!


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## polyTV425 (Aug 25, 2020)

Hello forum! I was wondering if this issue has been fixed.

I am a long time Tivo user since Series 1, and just recently upgraded one of our Bolts to an Edge. Sure enough, transferred recordings freeze about 10 minutes in on the Edge. Super frustrating to see other users complaining about this for so long.

Would upgrading my Bolt to TE4 and re-transferring help? Any thoughts appreciated. This is enough of an issue that I'm considering returning the Edge.


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

Question, are they both running the new experience, or is one the old experience and one the new experience?

I solved the problem by putting both machines in the old experience, transfer the recordings, then upgrade the experience after transferring the programs to the new box. PIA but works.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

David Bentley said:


> Question, are they both running the new experience, or is one the old experience and one the new experience?
> 
> I solved the problem by putting both machines in the old experience, transfer the recordings, then upgrade the experience after transferring the programs to the new box. PIA but works.


Unfortunately, the Edge cannot be downgraded to the old experience (TE3).


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

polyTV425 said:


> Hello forum! I was wondering if this issue has been fixed.
> 
> I am a long time Tivo user since Series 1, and just recently upgraded one of our Bolts to an Edge. Sure enough, transferred recordings freeze about 10 minutes in on the Edge. Super frustrating to see other users complaining about this for so long.
> 
> Would upgrading my Bolt to TE4 and re-transferring help? Any thoughts appreciated. This is enough of an issue that I'm considering returning the Edge.


I had this same problem with transferring from Bolt to Edge, and both were on the new experience (TE4). Couldn't get it to work. IIRC, it seemed to happen mostly (only?) with shows broadcast in a specific resolution. I don't remember though if it was 720p or what.


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## polyTV425 (Aug 25, 2020)

pfiagra said:


> I had this same problem with transferring from Bolt to Edge, and both were on the new experience (TE4). Couldn't get it to work. IIRC, it seemed to happen mostly (only?) with shows broadcast in a specific resolution. I don't remember though if it was 720p or what.


Curious, did you just give up, or ever find a solution? I tried Tivo support today, and they followed the script of rebooting the box, etc. Not a thing has worked.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

polyTV425 said:


> Curious, did you just give up, or ever find a solution? I tried Tivo support today, and they followed the script of rebooting the box, etc. Not a thing has worked.


I eventually just gave up. Nothing critical on the Bolt that I have to watch. Most of the recordings have been sitting there for months and I haven't watched them yet. I haven't yet sold the Bolt (no lifetime) so I could always plug it in and watch the shows. But who am I kidding? (Um...myself)


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

polyTV425 said:


> Hello forum! I was wondering if this issue has been fixed.
> 
> I am a long time Tivo user since Series 1, and just recently upgraded one of our Bolts to an Edge. Sure enough, transferred recordings freeze about 10 minutes in on the Edge. Super frustrating to see other users complaining about this for so long.
> 
> Would upgrading my Bolt to TE4 and re-transferring help? Any thoughts appreciated. This is enough of an issue that I'm considering returning the Edge.


Hard to say, if you mean permanent fix that works for everyone. I always had the problem, ALL my recordings transferred from TE3 Roamios to TE4 Bolt using Tivo online froze, somewhere in the recording (not a fixed time for different recordings). I had given up, BUT a couple months ago I tried it and it worked. Could be around the time a TE4 update also made it so TE4 machines can fully format drives over 3TB. I did not extensively test, a few recordings, but none froze, in the past ALL froze. Make sure your Edge has the latest version of TE4, try again, if still freezing not sure what to say. By the way if you "sidegrade" your Bolt to TE4 if you want to go BACK to TE3 you will lose all your recordings, TE3 to TE4 keep recordings, TE4 to TE3 lose recordings.

This being said I may transfer a few more shows as a test. someone mentioned shows with skip would freeze, shows without would not. For me as I said they ALL froze, skip or not, some very old SD recordings included, no skip.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

For fun I tried transferring a couple shows from TE3 Roamio to TE4 Bolt. 1 hour HD current network show with skip transferred fine. 1/2 hour SD vintage show freezes after 10 minutes. So whatever the problem is it's not fixed (and probably never will be, it's been a LONG time)


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> For fun I tried transferring a couple shows from TE3 Roamio to TE4 Bolt. 1 hour HD current network show with skip transferred fine. 1/2 hour SD vintage show freezes after 10 minutes. So whatever the problem is it's not fixed (and probably never will be, it's been a LONG time)


What kind of stinks is there is no error message or failure reported. Shows all seem to transfer fine, entire recording shows up and green bar is full. But some freeze somewhere into the recording. What this means is unless you TEST every show you transfer you might THINK everything is fine. But later when you go to watch at least some will freeze. Fortunately can test with fast forward. Ok if doing a few at a time. But if you transferred a lot of shows (I've done hundreds in the past), testing all would be a pain to say the least. Let's start a fight, if you want to do transfers/backups/restores STICK WITH TE3  Which leaves out Edge.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

Well, here we are two years later -- and this problem may finally have been fixed with TE4 
21.10.1.v8. I have tried a transfer from my TE3 Premiere to my TE4 Bolt after every TE4 software update, and have had the playback freeze issue every time.

Until today.

So far I have transferred a dozen episodes of two different shows, and all have played through. To be clear, I just FF'd through them or jumped to each marker until reaching the end. This always failed previously. But every transferred episode worked today.

If you had this problem, give it another try with 21.10.1.v8.


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

Phil_C said:


> Thanks to @TiVo_Ted, TiVo is now aware of our problem with transferred shows freezing when we attempt to play them on the Bolt TE4.
> 
> They set up several pairs of boxes and, after a couple of days, were able to reproduce the problem intermittently. There is more than one cause, including signal glitches in source programs that the TiVo transfer process can't handle, and "security key association" problems. They also observed the issue where two duplicate copies of a transferred program sometimes appear. They are continuing to investigate.
> 
> A fix will have to be incorporated into a future client release.


TiVo isn't doing a ****ing thing. I had a Bolt tuner go bad and needed to replace that box. I transferred everything back to my Roamio and everything freezes after transfer. If I go to the App and play from there, it's fine. Any lawyer out there? We should sue the **** out of TiVo for false advertising. If they say you can transfer from in box to the other and you can't, that is illegal. I've upgraded and downgraded from the new experience and noting. **** you TiVo!


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

Phil_C said:


> Well, here we are two years later -- and this problem may finally have been fixed with TE4
> 21.10.1.v8. I have tried a transfer from my TE3 Premiere to my TE4 Bolt after every TE4 software update, and have had the playback freeze issue every time.
> 
> Until today.
> ...


Question were the shows you were transferring pausing and now don't pause anymore or were they "clean"? I had a Bolt and needed to get everything off of it because the tuner died and all I got was a blue screen no matter what I did (yes I hit the TiVo button blue and switched out HDMI and TV and same problem.). I forgot TiVo has the freezing issues so I transferred everything and got the pausing issues. I've upgraded and downgraded from the old and new experience and nothing. Still shows pausing.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

David Bentley said:


> Question were the shows you were transferring pausing and now don't pause anymore or were they "clean"? I had a Bolt and needed to get everything off of it because the tuner died and all I got was a blue screen no matter what I did (yes I hit the TiVo button blue and switched out HDMI and TV and same problem.). I forgot TiVo has the freezing issues so I transferred everything and got the pausing issues. I've upgraded and downgraded from the old and new experience and nothing. Still shows pausing.


Shows that were freezing every time are now playing through as they should -- after a fresh transfer!

Has your Bolt received 21.10.1.v8? If so, have you tried to transfer a couple of shows that previously failed to play properly?

I transferred and tested more than a dozen shows last night, and they work. I set many more to transfer overnight, and they are still processing. I will spot check more when the transfers are complete. (Yes, I know I can try programs that have finished, but I don't want to mess with anything until all transfers are complete.)


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

To be clear what device to what device and what user experience on both.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

David Bentley said:


> To be clear what device to what device and what user experience on both.


Read my post from yesterday.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

The transfer of 150+ hours of programming is complete. I spot checked a couple of dozen random programs and they all play properly. So I have to consider this issue finally fixed. 

There were about a dozen "double transfers", where duplicate shows appeared on the receiving device, so that is still an issue. But this was a one-time thing for me, so I'm good.


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

I asked the question because I think you misunderstood what I asked originally.
I asked if the programs you were transferring were pausing then you transferred them and then they played correctly. Meaning were the programs on your Premiere transferred from another box and not playing correctly, pausing, and when you transferred them now, they became “clean” by not pausing anymore. 
Or were the programs on the Premiere “clean” and these new transfers to the Bolt today the first time the transfers to the Bolt were clean?
I had a tuner go out on a 3 mo old TiVo Bolt and I had to return it for a replacement. I forgot about the issue of pausing until after transferring all my programs back to my Roamio and setting up the new Bolt which wiped out all my old programs.
Secondly, did you ever check the App to see if the pausing programs also paused there, or did you just check the box exclusively? 
Thirdly, how many times did you contact TiVo about this? Two years is way to long to solve a problem like this.


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

David Bentley said:


> Or were the programs on the Premiere "clean" and these new transfers to the Bolt today the first time the transfers to the Bolt were clean?


Original programs on the Premiere TE3 were all OK and left in place untouched on that unit.

The process of transferring them to the Bolt TE4 permanently damaged them (the transferred ones, not the originals), causing the freeze problem. Once damaged, they would always freeze, including if you transferred them from the Bolt to a phone or even back to the Premiere.

So if you are saying that you transferred shows from your Roamio to a Bolt, thereby damaging them, and then transferred those damaged shows back to the Roamio -- I'm sorry to say that there is no way to fix them now. They will freeze on the Roamio or anywhere else you try to play them.

If you still have the originals on the Roamio, then they would be OK and could now be transferred successfully.

I was fortunate to get TiVo_Ted's attention two years ago, and exchanged several emails over the following few months. He did get TiVo to investigate and find the problem, but apparently had no control over when they would fix it. Calling them was useless, as it was nearly impossible to get anyone on the phone to even understand the issue.

Ted left TiVo several months ago, so I mostly gave up on this. But I still would do a test transfer of a single program every time the Bolt TE4 was updated. It finally paid off this time.

Truthfully, I wonder if this got fixed accidentally in the course of making other changes that just happened to affect this issue. It certainly was not a TiVo priority.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Phil_C said:


> The process of transferring them to the Bolt TE4 permanently damaged them (the transferred ones, not the originals), causing the freeze problem. Once damaged, they would always freeze, including if you transferred them from the Bolt to a phone or even back to the Premiere.


How about offloading them to a PC, and running 'em through VideoReDo (or similar), before uploading back to a TE3 box with PyTiVo and then transferring over to TE4 (via the fixed update)?


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## Phil_C (Oct 28, 2011)

krkaufman said:


> How about offloading them to a PC, and running 'em through VideoReDo (or similar), before uploading back to a TE3 box with PyTiVo and then transferring over to TE4 (via the fixed update)?


Way back, I ran a damaged test show through Avidemux, but it failed with errors no matter what settings I tried.

Might be worth a try by David Bentley with different software. But -- holy moley -- how much time would those four steps take if he has 150 hours of programs like I did?

I kept my original undamaged programs on the old Premiere, so I was able to transfer them this week. My job is done!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Phil_C said:


> Way back, I ran a damaged test show through Avidemux, but it failed with errors no matter what settings I tried.
> 
> Might be worth a try by David Bentley with different software. But -- holy moley -- how much time would those four steps take if he has 150 hours of programs like I did?
> 
> I kept my original undamaged programs on the old Premiere, so I was able to transfer them this week. My job is done!


Was mostly a theoretical question, as I believe the orig box is gone in his case. He'd have to acquire a TE3 box, after testing/verifying the process for offloading and fixing the video.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

tommage1 said:


> For fun I tried transferring a couple shows from TE3 Roamio to TE4 Bolt. 1 hour HD current network show with skip transferred fine. 1/2 hour SD vintage show freezes after 10 minutes. So whatever the problem is it's not fixed (and probably never will be, it's been a LONG time)


One more update, I transferred the show that froze again. This time it worked. Have no idea why. Also transferred half a dozen other shows. They all worked. Some MPEG-2 from OTA, some H.264 compressed cable. So maybe it IS fixed. Just can't explain why the one show froze, then worked fine when transferred again (a new transfer of the same recording.) All my transfers were TE3 Roamio to TE4 Bolt. And yes, when I transferred the damaged/freezing show back to the Roamio (direct, not using Tivo online), it still froze.


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## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

My previously problematic shows have now successfully transferred with the newest update. Finally!


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

The process of transferring them to the Bolt TE4 permanently damaged them (the transferred ones, not the originals), causing the freeze problem.

*I don't believe the programs are "damaged." I had about 20-30 recordings that paused after transfer. After the new upgrade on the TE4, I am down to six that now pause. So if they paused, and now no longer pause, they weren't damaged. *

Once damaged, they would always freeze, including if you transferred them from the Bolt to a phone or even back to the Premiere.

*I asked if you tried to stream the transfers that paused, because I have. I discovered that that play correctly when streaming, but not when watching on the box itself. Theoretically, I could stream the show on my iPad and mirror my iPad on my appleTV and watch that way. But why do that extra step.*

Calling them was useless, as it was nearly impossible to get anyone on the phone to even understand the issue.

*That's the biggest problem with TiVo. S*it support where nobody understands what you are trying to tel them.*

But I still would do a test transfer of a single program every time the Bolt TE4 was updated. It finally paid off this time.

*You mentioning this made me check my paused programs and I discovered they didn't pause anymore. So thank you for the post. *

Truthfully, I wonder if this got fixed accidentally in the course of making other changes that just happened to affect this issue. It certainly was not a TiVo priority.

*To me the issue appears to be copyright protection on the recording. Everybody want to prevent people from bootlegging digital copies of programs. So there is something happening in the transfer that makes it look like it's going from a TiVo to another device, triggering the copy protection to kick in and pause the program. I think that's why it plays when streaming and not when playing on the box. Trying to get the TiVo support to follow that is impossible.*


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

I believe the orig box is gone in his case. He'd have to acquire a TE3 box, after testing/verifying the process for offloading and fixing the video.

*Yes original box is gone. I have a Roamio and Premiere running TE3. I transferred from bolt to Roamio with TE4 to TE4, TE4 to TE3, TE3 to TE4 and TE3 to TE3 (Bolt to Roamio) and still pausing on six programs. I believe they are all copyright issues because they are all sports and three are on Fox and you can't transfer FX and FXX programs.*


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

Is this problem ever going to get fixed? Hello TiVo are you out there? You tell me the problem is fixed. You lie. It is not. Your customer service is ****. Nobody helps. You defraud your customers promising something they cannot do. What is your problem?


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## polyTV425 (Aug 25, 2020)

I gave up (and forgot about the issue until I got the alert for this subscribed thread). I have been an ardent defender of Tivo since Series 1, but between this issue and my struggles with Optimum and Cablecards (the latter which I rank as the most frustrating customer experience I have ever had in my entire life, by a factor of 10x), I had to realize that it is time to start putting Tivo behind me.

I am writing this with regret as there are still things I love about Tivo, mainly the remote and its functionality (including FF/REW) that no one has been able to replicate.

But a reality that is we are realizing a lot of the best content we want has moved over to streaming, and is almost always 4K and higher quality that we can't get with Optimum.

We even tried Hulu Live TV and Google TV for live TV, and the quality of both was far superior to live TV coming across Optimum on our Tivo (also factoring in the fact that Tivo allegedly softens PQ, which you'll find discussed on other threads).

So it has me wondering if I should really care any more about minor issues like these, which remain unresolved for so long, when I am feeling like I am defending old tech that I likely won't use much longer.


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

I’ve very well aware of the world we live in.

My problem is the fraud aspect of this. If you advertise the ability to do something and you can’t, that is fraud. Period. There should me ministry compensation from TiVo to the customer for this or a resolution. 
There are shows/programs/events that you CANNOT get anywhere else unless you recorded it on your TiVo. 
The show/programs/recording I am having problems with I can stream on my phone and iPad but they don’t play correctly on the device. If you can stream them there isn’t a problem with the recording. It means TiVo ****ed it all up. Because they ****ed it up, they should un-**** it.


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## elorimer (Jan 1, 2012)

I got a Bolt some years ago to do out of home streaming and discovered this problem in transferring Her shows from the Roamio to the new Bolt on TE4. Fortunately discovered it in time to roll back to TE3. 

She prefers TE3 for Her Tivo after that brief introduction to TE4, and there we have been for the last several years. I cannot risk the loss of Her shows if I were to move to move Her Bolt to TE4, and I cannot swap Her Bolt for the old Roamio, so I am prevented from fooling with this.

So I am unclear on this: Is it believed that this is fixed?


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## David Bentley (Apr 7, 2020)

TiVo is telling me they don’t care about any of us and to go pound sand. They have zero desire to solve this problem. Basically it’s “your problem not ours.” I can’t wait for everything to be streamed and this company no longer exists. They are garbage. Their people are garbage. We all know the product is garbage because we are all experiencing a problem they advertise that they don’t deliver on.


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