# Tivo for AT&T U-verse



## TommyV

I would like to see Tive work with ATT and come up with a way to either use their existing Tivos to work with U-verse or release a U-Tivo. The ATT DVRs are full of problems.


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## classicsat

Series 1/2s work with them fine, or at least should.

The bigger answer would be to make an IPTV TiVo that works with any IPTV provider, or better any box based service, or incorporate IPTV into the Series 3 platform.


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## Videodrome

I think U-verse should have to support cablecard, either with a special box that talks to the card, or built in to there service.


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## TommyV

I should have specified HD Tivo. Yes I also agree, ATT needs to support cable card which would solve the Tivo issue. Their HD DVR seems to have many unacceptable problems. I just wish Tivo could team up w/ them and release a box specifically for the service. ATT sure needs the help.


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## Sapphire

How does AT&T get away with not supporting CableCARD while Verizon doesn't?


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## TommyV

Good question


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## NickIN

Raj said:


> How does AT&T get away with not supporting CableCARD while Verizon doesn't?


I think it was a voluntary decision on Verizon's part. It's my understanding they aren't required.


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## Videodrome

NickIN said:


> I think it was a voluntary decision on Verizon's part. It's my understanding they aren't required.


Which is a good decision by Verizon, i wouldnt move to there service, if i had tivo and they wouldnt support it. BTW i think all cable service will have to support cablecard at one point. Plus i think IPTV is supposed to be merged into the spec.


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## kevinv

Videodrome said:


> Which is a good decision by Verizon, i wouldnt move to there service, if i had tivo and they wouldnt support it. BTW i think all cable service will have to support cablecard at one point. Plus i think IPTV is supposed to be merged into the spec.


I believe Verizon had the FIOS service listed as a cable tv service which meant they had to comply with FCC regulation on that. AT&T maintains their service is more like an Internet service than a cable and they shouldn't have to comply. One judge has already said they are a cable tv service (in CT).

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070727-federal-judge-att-u-verse-cable-tv.html

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/u-verse.ars


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## ciper

FIOS and Uverse are two VERY different things.

Uverse is basically a DSL connection with shows delivered by IP. That's why they limit the number of "channels" that can be watched at a time.

FIOS is very similar to an 850mhz cable TV but instead of coax it's fiber and all 870mhz can be dedicated to channels. It uses three separate light wavelengths - one for downstream data, one for "cable TV" and one for upstream data. Its superior to cable or uverse because all 850mhz can be dedicated to channels and the data has it's own path. Currently it has a *300 MegaBytes* and *150 MegaBytes* up total bandwidth available.

edit: In other words U-Verse is a POS and you should not be asking for Tivo to support it but rather "When can I get Fios" instead.


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## SpiritualPoet

The AT&T U-Verse allows simultaneous recording of 4 events (while playing any event live or recorded). A TiVo capable of that would have to be developed from the ground up. I don't envision that happening - at least in the near future.


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## eric_n_dfw

SpiritualPoet said:


> The AT&T U-Verse allows simultaneous recording of 4 events (while playing any event live or recorded). A TiVo capable of that would have to be developed from the ground up. I don't envision that happening - at least in the near future.


Well, since the the UVerse DVR (a Motorola VIP1216, fwiw) is not really tuning anything in, it's basically downloading those 4 programs to disk much like you would from your browser. Not a lot of CPU involvement needed there.

I'd venture to guess that the 4 program (2 in high def) limit is a bandwidth imposed thing. And, since the TivoHD has the same 100MB ethernet and a faster drive than the VIP2126, the hardware should be able to handle it.

The question is at playback: can the TivoHD support the H.264 encoded MPEG4 video that UVerse uses (I think it can), and would/could Tivo support the DRM scheme (which is probably Microsoft's DRM since they write the UVerse DVR software).


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## ciper

SpiritualPoet said:


> The AT&T U-Verse allows simultaneous recording of 4 events (while playing any event live or recorded).


Actually no. It depends on how far you live from the dslam.

If you live less than 3,000 feet away you can get a MAX 2 HD and 2 SD 
If you live 3,001 and 3,400 feet away you'll be stuck with 1 HD and 3 SD Full stop. This is actually an UPGRADE over the initial service believe it or not.

Prerecorded content on a DVR doesn't count.


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## E94Allen

I don't have AT&T U-Verse in my area but I am wondering does AT&T U-verse support closed captions though the IP they use?


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## lrhorer

Videodrome said:


> I think U-verse should have to support cablecard, either with a special box that talks to the card, or built in to there service.


There's no point in that, since security is already built in to the IPTV protocol, and any IP based device can support it. By definition it meets the "separable security" requirement upon which CableCards are based without having to have a CableCard.


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## lrhorer

TommyV said:


> I should have specified HD Tivo. Yes I also agree, ATT needs to support cable card which would solve the Tivo issue.


No, it wouldn't. I doubt it is even possible to divert a stream from the NIC to the CableCard's video stream input on the TiVo, in which case it's plain out impossible. If it is physically possible to divert the stream, it still would require some major software coding on TiVo's part. More importantly, it just isn't necessary. Getting the TiVo to speak IPTV and able to download at real time speeds would do the trick.



TommyV said:


> Their HD DVR seems to have many unacceptable problems. I just wish Tivo could team up w/ them and release a box specifically for the service. ATT sure needs the help.


That's different. I'm not sure it's very likely, but it's different, and probably altogether easier from an engineering standpoint. From a contractual standpoint it is another matter yet again.


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## lrhorer

ciper said:


> FIOS and Uverse are two VERY different things.


"Very", indeed. Apples and Zebras.



ciper said:


> Uverse is basically a DSL connection with shows delivered by IP. That's why they limit the number of "channels" that can be watched at a time.


Just to clarify: the DSL part is why it's limited, not the IP. If they delivered the service over a Gig-E link, they could easily allow almost 50 simultaneous HD downloads, even using MPEG II.



ciper said:


> edit: In other words U-Verse is a POS and you should not be asking for Tivo to support it but rather "When can I get Fios" instead.


Don't beat around the bush. Tell us how you really feel about U-Verse.


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## lrhorer

eric_n_dfw said:


> Well, since the the UVerse DVR (a Motorola VIP1216, fwiw) is not really tuning anything in, it's basically downloading those 4 programs to disk much like you would from your browser. Not a lot of CPU involvement needed there.


No, but remember the content has to be encrypted on the hard drive to meet both CableCard requirements (whether the CableCard is used or not) and Tivo's own design implementation. Comingin from AT&T U-Verse would be little different than TTCB transfers, which max out at around 16 Mbps, sometimes too slow to transfer even 1 HD MPEG II program in real time.



eric_n_dfw said:


> I'd venture to guess that the 4 program (2 in high def) limit is a bandwidth imposed thing. And, since the TivoHD has the same 100MB ethernet and a faster drive than the VIP2126, the hardware should be able to handle it.


It just about could if the TiVo were not having to encrypt the stream. MRV transfers peak around 40 Mbps.



eric_n_dfw said:


> The question is at playback: can the TivoHD support the H.264 encoded MPEG4 video that UVerse uses (I think it can),


It can. At the moment it is only enabled for streaming, and limited to no more than 1.1 GB per transfer, but it should be possible, potentially bringing the transfer rate into the realm of 2HD + 2 SD videos, but that's not the only issue



eric_n_dfw said:


> and would/could Tivo support the DRM scheme (which is probably Microsoft's DRM since they write the UVerse DVR software).


Licensing Microsoft's DRM code is not an issue. Licensing code is what Microsoft does for a living, and anyone with enough cash is welcome. The question is, "Can the TiVo decrypt the stream fast enough to make viewing of HD content seamless?" Since the CPU would have to handle the decryption entirely in application code, that's a really big question.


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## classicsat

Built it on the Broadcom BCM 7420.

The box needs an identity to verify itself on the network, so the IPTV provider knows they authorized. That could be done with an ISO7816 smartcard, which the aforementioned Broadcom chip supports. I am not sue, but I think it could handle the security used for IPTV.


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## ciper

lrhorer said:


> Licensing Microsoft's DRM code is not an issue. Licensing code is what Microsoft does for a living, and anyone with enough cash is welcome. The question is, "Can the TiVo decrypt the stream fast enough to make viewing of HD content seamless?" Since the CPU would have to handle the decryption entirely in application code, that's a really big question.


Isn't the NetFlix application using licensed Microsoft DRM already?



lrhorer said:


> Just to clarify: the DSL part is why it's limited, not the IP. If they delivered the service over a Gig-E link, they could easily allow almost 50 simultaneous HD downloads, even using MPEG II.


That is correct. So are you suggesting U-Verse over a FIOS or docsis3 cable data connection?


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## lrhorer

ciper said:


> Isn't the NetFlix application using licensed Microsoft DRM already?


I don't know. The DRM may be there on the content, but the stream itself may be decrypted before sending it across the internet.



ciper said:


> That is correct. So are you suggesting U-Verse over a FIOS or docsis3 cable data connection?


Well, I'm not necessarily suggesting it, I'm just saying it could be done.


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## Polarbear

Have had Uverse for about a year now and have made several attempts to get my TIVO to work with Uverse. 
I can watch everything already recorded and play DVD's but can not record or watch live TV. I always get "searching for signal" message. 
I am a complete dummy when it comes to this sort of thing so any reply will have to be in layman's terms and greatly appreciated.


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## STEVON

I think the new Federal law requires UVERSE to make a solution for HD recording specifically requested by TIVO and other DVR manufactureres Read below:
CableCard interface the FCC ruled the following in Oct. 2010
"Effective July 1, 2011, include both: (A) a DVI or HDMI interface and (B) a connection capable of delivering recordable high definition video and closed captioning data in an industry standard format on all high definition set-top boxes, except unidirectional set-top boxes without recording functionality, acquired by a cable operator for distribution to customers."

I didn't wait, used Moome MUX-HD DVI "repeater" to allow HD video and sound recording to my HTPC. HD capture card requires huge CPU power, I'm using Intel Core 2 Q9450 Quad-Core Processor and four gigs of RAM!
Stephen



TommyV said:


> I should have specified HD Tivo. Yes I also agree, ATT needs to support cable card which would solve the Tivo issue. Their HD DVR seems to have many unacceptable problems. I just wish Tivo could team up w/ them and release a box specifically for the service. ATT sure needs the help.


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