# Hell On Wheels Season 4 (2014) spoilers



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I like this show but I swear to God and all things holy, if they bring the Swede back again as a villain, I swear I'm throwing my shoe at the tv. Now that the Mormons know he's a murdering imposter, he needs to be dead, dead, dead, dead, dead. 

For some reason, when Bohannon and his wife crossed paths with the Indian with the wounded arm, I expected Elam to come walking out from behind a bush or something.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I like this show but I swear to God and all things holy, if they bring the Swede back again as a villain, I swear I'm throwing my shoe at the tv. Now that the Mormons know he's a murdering imposter, he needs to be dead, dead, dead, dead, dead.


Based on next week's preview:


Spoiler



It looks like they are moving away from the Swede/Mormon story. I do kind of like the Swede as a villain, so I guess it wouldn't bother me if he escapes or the banish him and he winds up back at the railroad reeking havoc





> For some reason, when Bohannon and his wife crossed paths with the Indian with the wounded arm, I expected Elam to come walking out from behind a bush or something.


I expected the same thing. I guess they knew that Common wasn't coming back and they killed him off. That scene where he dies wrestling the bear just seemed out of the blue to me, so yeah, I expected him to survive it.

Overall I really like this show, even though I'm generally not a western fan. I gave it a shot because I always have been fascinated with the building of the trans-continental railroad.

It looks like there's "literally" a new sheriff in town and these guys mean business. And they don't trust Durant one bit. Should be fun watching that play out.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

Is it just me or do you think the town's people would have shot or ran out of town the governor and new law men once they saw that they were about to hang the man who did nothing wrong according to the towns laws? There were many men in that saloon that had weapons and the law men wouldn't have stood a chance yet everyone stood around and did nothing.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Allanon said:


> Is it just me or do you think the town's people would have shot or ran out of town the governor and new law men once they saw that they were about to hang the man who did nothing wrong according to the towns laws? There were many men in that saloon that had weapons and the law men wouldn't have stood a chance yet everyone stood around and did nothing.


I think action like that would invite government troops to take over. Remember, they were sent by US Grant and were acting on orders of the new Governor, who happened to be in town too. I think those people understood that these are not guys to mess with. The hanging of one of their own, was a show of force by the Governor's men.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

I love this show. Although I have to say that the scene where Bohannon got the Swede to admit that he killed and impersonated the Mormom Bishop was some Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd level fast talk.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> I love this show. Although I have to say that the scene where Bohannon got the Swede to admit that he killed and impersonated the Mormom Bishop was some Bugs Bunny/Elmer Fudd level fast talk.


Duck Season
Rabbit Season



I thought that was clever, because he knew that once the Swede got going, he'd keep going and out himself.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Steveknj said:


> DI thought that was clever, because he knew that once the Swede got going, he'd keep going and out himself.


Yeah, I think the key was when he said earlier, something like "I believe that _you _believe that." That's when he realized that the Swede wasn't faking it, even if he was a fake.

It will be interesting to see what persona the Swede adopts in his next incarnation...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It will be interesting to see what persona the Swede adopts in his next incarnation...


Hopefully a corpse!


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Hopefully a corpse!


This


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> This


From the preview:



Spoiler



Looks like more of the Swede next week.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm already starting to feel sorry for the Carpetbaggers men. Payback is Bohannon's middle name.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Steveknj said:


> From the preview:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Pffft....


Spoiler



:down:


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

The Swede is like The Governor on The Walking Dead. They are bringing him back for a little more screen time after we all thought he was dead just to eventually kill him off.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

DouglasPHill said:


> I'm already starting to feel sorry for the Carpetbaggers men. Payback is Bohannon's middle name.


Bohannon won't kill the governor but the other two carpetbaggers are in for a world of hurt. He could learn some manners though.

I can't remember why the preacher lady is pissed at him.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> I can't remember why the preacher lady is pissed at him.


She saw him, herself, and the boy becoming a family.

Then Bohannon dies.

Then he comes back, with a wife and child.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

It's amazing how much better this show is when the swede storyline isn't on.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

rimler said:


> It's amazing how much better this show is when the swede storyline isn't on.


I feel the same way. Kill him off already.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Agreed don't need him as the villain with Governor Carpetbagger around.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

There's no way that Eva doesn't eventually get caught cheating at cards.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Is it just me or does Eva look smaller on top this season?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

DouglasPHill said:


> Is it just me or does Eva look smaller on top this season?


Her head looks about the same size as it's always been.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

It shouldn't even be "eventually." That kind of sleight of hand takes years to master. Even the cheater told her he's been at it for 25 years.

Do you suppose that what the gambler/cheater was doing while she was practicing was really "worth his while?" Borrrrrrrring 



cheesesteak said:


> There's no way that Eva doesn't eventually get caught cheating at cards.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It was mentioned upthread a bit but Durant really should have rustled up a posse and disappeared Governor Carpetbagger and the Pips. Eh, now that I think about it some more, the newspaper woman would have to get killed too. There's no way she'd keep quiet and at some point, the writers have to figure out a way to involve her in a love triangle with Bohannon.


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## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Eh, now that I think about it some more, the newspaper woman would have to get killed too. There's no way she'd keep quiet and at some point, the writers have to figure out a way to involve her in a love triangle with Bohannon.


I thought they established last season that she was gay.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Martha said:


> I thought they established last season that she was gay.


Apparently, I can't remember last season.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

That does not preclude a love triangle.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Right...Bohannon, the newspaper lady, and the preacher lady!


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> It was mentioned upthread a bit but Durant really should have rustled up a posse and disappeared Governor Carpetbagger and the Pips. Eh, now that I think about it some more, the newspaper woman would have to get killed too. There's no way she'd keep quiet and at some point, the writers have to figure out a way to involve her in a love triangle with Bohannon.


Cheyenne is a pretty lawless place, but if Durant went that far General Grant- soon President Grant- would come down on them with full force.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

DouglasPHill said:


> Is it just me or does Eva look smaller on top this season?


My family members made the same observation. The actress appears to have dropped a lot of weight between seasons.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> Cheyenne is a pretty lawless place, but if Durant went that far General Grant- soon President Grant- would come down on them with full force.


How would he know? Blame the Indians. Didn't Durant intercept and burn the Governor's "setting up shop" letter to Grant?


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> How would he know? Blame the Indians. Didn't Durant intercept and burn the Governor's "setting up shop" letter to Grant?


If someone kills a person as important as the Governor, even quietly, rumor will get out somehow via the telegraph or by people traveling on the railroad that something shady was afoot. If you blame an Indian attack, it wouldn't make sense for just one or two people to get killed, not to mention the General will definitely send the army to enforce the law in a heavy handed way if he is told that Indians have attacked Cheyenne.


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## Fl_Gulfer (May 27, 2005)

cheesesteak said:


> Her head looks about the same size as it's always been.


As I pick myself up off the floor wiping the tears ...:up:


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

The Guide Data for the 9/6 episode has an interesting revelation...


Spoiler



Elam is still with us!


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Guide Data for the 9/6 episode has an interesting revelation...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



Apparently, all of the male stars of this show are immortals


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

cheesesteak said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, all of the male stars of this show are immortals


[pedantic]
Being immortal is not always the same as being unkillable. For example, in Highlander, the "immortals" do not age past a certain point but they can be permanently killed.
[/pedantic]


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Whatever.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Guide Data for the 9/6 episode has an interesting revelation...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Doing a happy dance. 



Spoiler



I admit to watching this show for the eye candy. It is like "Miami Vice" was back in the day.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Jim_TV said:


> The Swede is like The Governor on The Walking Dead. They are bringing him back for a little more screen time after we all thought he was dead just to eventually kill him off.


Didn't you think that The Swede was going to eat that telegram? Don't let him handle the evidence!

My bet: Little Boy Ezra fingers "Bishop Swede" once and for all, or kills him himself. The boy is talking now.



Spoiler



From the previews we see that Brigham Young hisself will meet "the Bishop."



Hell on Wheels is going good again. They brought in just enough new villains to make it appointment TV again.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> Bohannon won't kill the governor but the other two carpetbaggers are in for a world of hurt. He could learn some manners though.


Remember that "General" President Grant was personally impressed with Bohannon. If Grant got word that his carpetbaggers were getting especially out of line with Bohannon they could get slapped down.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

MikeAndrews said:


> Remember that "General" President Grant was personally impressed with Bohannon. If Grant got word that his carpetbaggers were getting especially out of line with Bohannon they could get slapped down.


Although Grant likes him, I think that Grant would sacrifice Bohannon in order to tame the wild territory.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I've always enjoyed this show. It's a quick 45 minutes of fun each week, glad they've expanded the season a bit.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Guide Data for the 9/6 episode has an interesting revelation...
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Biggest "surprise" of the season....

I agree this season has been great so far; each ep flies by...


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Bierboy said:


> Biggest "surprise" of the season....
> 
> I agree this season has been great so far; each ep flies by...





Spoiler



I predict that Elam will have been rescued by Indians who happened upon him severely wounded and who nursed him back to health because they respected him for killing the bear.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Anson Mount is yummy.

That is all.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Those were some dumb Mexicans.

I have a feeling the Governor is going to lose another henchman when Durant recovers.

I think I'm going to ffwd through most Swede scenes from now on. Apparently, Brigham Young is going to put the Swede in charge of the Mormon railroad spur that I had totally forgotten about. I'm just tired of the character.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Johnny "life is a mystery" Reb makes the Swede look almost angelic. So ready for that guy to meet his end.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

I'm still enjoying this. I, unlike a lot of people here "like" the Swede as a villain. You need a good, cunning villain to make these shows.

This past episode felt more like a classic western than most of the rest of the series. I've never been a big western fan, but I thought it was well done.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Steveknj said:


> I'm still enjoying this. I, unlike a lot of people here "like" the Swede as a villain. You need a good, cunning villain to make these shows.


The Swede was a great villain - in his first incarnation. But once he fell from a certain death height into a shallow stream, I expect him to be dead. To me, they should have introduced a new villain then. Plus, I hate his speech patterns.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> The Swede was a great villain - in his first incarnation. But once he fell from a certain death height into a shallow stream, I expect him to be dead. To me, they should have introduced a new villain then. Plus, I hate his speech patterns.


I agree, dead should be dead. But of course (spoiler from next week's preview):



Spoiler



Elam is back after being mauled by a bear, so he's back from apparent death too.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

Steveknj said:


> I agree, dead should be dead. But of course (spoiler from next week's preview):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At the rate they're going, we will probably discover soon that Jessup isn't really dead. Or.......Lily returns! She was just knocked out. Really.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm thinking "Life is a mystery" Reb will convince our hero to help him escape, otherwise he'll tell everyone everything they did during the war.


Spoiler



During his escape and its conflict Elam will shoot him.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

DouglasPHill said:


> I'm thinking "Life is a mystery" Reb will convince our hero to help him escape, otherwise he'll tell everyone everything they did during the war.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


I'd love to see that!!


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Count me in as one who is sick of the Swede. Many characters have come and gone on this show, it would be easy to have a new "villain", and actually they already have some.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

It'll be interesting to see how...or if...Elam comes back from that.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

We may be getting 3 extra episodes this season over past seasons, but they've squandered at least 4 of them so far with the most uninteresting, boring, wasteful stories. Including the one tonight. And from the previews, next weeks episode is probably going to add to the total too.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

I wish would have just skipped last night's episode.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

I correctly predicted earlier in this very thread that Elam would be rescued and nursed back to health by Indians who respected him for killing a bear. I didn't expect him to be brain damaged and suffering from a changed personality in addition to injured. Looks like next episode when he gets back to Cheyenne is going to be filled with drama.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I need to kill me a bear so I can just take whatever women I want and kill whoever gets in my way.

Seeing Common without the beard showed how crappy his beard "wig" is.


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

rimler said:


> I wish would have just skipped last night's episode.


ugh. I agree. They could have condensed the entire ep to 15 min and still told the same story. The opening 20 min dragged and dragged.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I need to kill me a bear so I can just take whatever women I want and kill whoever gets in my way.
> 
> Seeing Common without the beard showed how crappy his beard "wig" is.


I was thinking that we'd have Elam be clean shaven from now on because Common is.

"Where is Elam?" 
-- Making music and doing TV specials

Now we have one more blonde damsel in distress to follow.

Why did she tell Elam to sell her to get Eva? Why does Eva has to be bought?


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Why did she tell Elam to sell her to get Eva? Why does Eva has to be bought?


She realizes that he's thinking like an Indian. "Rescue me" wouldn't work. "Sell me for something you want more" might.

OK, from the previews we know


Spoiler



that when he gets back he's still thinks he's magic. So he probably brought the woman to town bound. Assuming he comes around eventually, does everyone get past the point that he treated this woman as a captive?


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I seem to be in the minority, but I liked the episode. I was wondering what happened to Elam.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Howie said:


> I seem to be in the minority, but I liked the episode. I was wondering what happened to Elam.


I was curious about what happened to him too. I just wanted a condensed version. At least the Swede wasn't in this episode.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Agreed, the ep should have been condensed into the first 15 minutes; and then back to Cheyenne.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Agreed, a 15 minute version would have sufficed. This was an unnecessary waste of an episode in an otherwise good season.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

The episode was too slow but I still enjoyed it. I've enjoyed each episode this season.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I was curious about what happened to him too. I just wanted a condensed version. At least the Swede wasn't in this episode.


:up::up::up:


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

Glad they used Common's exit to further the storyline and show Bohannon's cold side. Much better than getting et by a bear :up:


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I didn't get that Bohannon was cold. Quite the opposite. He couldn't bear to see his friend in that condition and could see in his eyes that there was no fixing him.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Howie said:


> I didn't get that Bohannon was cold. Quite the opposite. He couldn't bear to see his friend in that condition and could see in his eyes that there was no fixing him.


That and the fact he was just stabbed and Bohannon probably had enough experience to know between that and everything else he'd seen so far there wasn't any coming back from those wounds.

They also did a great job letting us know he's taking his friends death much harder than even we're given a glimpse of. I do hope it's the final straw to get Bohannon doing something much more proactively about the mess going on in the camp.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

dswallow said:


> They also did a great job letting us know he's taking his friends death much harder than even we're given a glimpse of. I do hope it's the final straw to get Bohannon doing something much more proactively about the mess going on in the camp.


Yeah, it seemed weird to me that they would bring back Elam for two episodes just to turn him into a Woman in a Refrigerator, but at least it was an especially well-executed version of the trope.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I agree that Bohannon was really broken up and I was touched by his reaction. I'm glad the Elam storyline is over -- hated it. 

The episode was so unrealistic. They would have shot Elam the moment he came into town like that. If he made it that far, they would have put several bullets in him when he hit the woman in her stomach.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

Howie said:


> I didn't get that Bohannon was cold. Quite the opposite. He couldn't bear to see his friend in that condition and could see in his eyes that there was no fixing him.


They advanced the storyline that Bohannon is a cold blooded killer when pushed to a decision. Did you see the reaction of his wife? Of Elam's wife? Of the townspeople? Bohannon can be a driven man, for better or worse, when he makes a decision or see what route he wants to take. I don't think most of the townspeople are going to agree with your assessment that he was euthanizing Elam for his own good.


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## Howie (May 3, 2004)

I disagree with you totally. Funny how people can watch the same thing and come up with completely different interpretations. To me, the townspeople were at first shocked, but then realized that Bohannan was only putting the man out of his misery.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

rimler said:


> They advanced the storyline that Bohannon is a cold blooded killer when pushed to a decision. Did you see the reaction of his wife? Of Elam's wife? Of the townspeople? Bohannon can be a driven man, for better or worse, when he makes a decision or see what route he wants to take. I don't think most of the townspeople are going to agree with your assessment that he was euthanizing Elam for his own good.


Remember Elam was trying to kill Bohannon and while Bohannon managed to elude Elam for a time, when it was clear he had little alternative, Bohannon stabbed Elam. A deep stomach stabbing -- as in intestines -- as in extremely unlikely there was any chance he'd survive that wound. It was just a matter of time before Elam would die... and probably rather painfully. Then there was considerable unspoken eye contact between them, after which Bohannon shot Elam, ostensibly to minimize his suffering towards his otherwise certain death.

Of course there was a certain resentment or even anger among Elam's friends, but Bohannon also has a long history of respect of and by those same people, and as evidenced by what happened during the funeral procession while carrying the casket, the townspeople who were mourning Elam showed they accepted Bohannon's actions by placing the casket on his cart and letting Bohannon take the casket for burial.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Yeah, it seemed weird to me that they would bring back Elam for two episodes just to turn him into a Woman in a Refrigerator, but at least it was an especially well-executed version of the trope.


Is it really an example of that trope?



> Cases of it deal with a gruesome injury or murder of a female character at the hands of a supervillain, usually as a motivating personal tragedy for a male superhero to whom the victim is connected. The death or injury of the female character then helps cement the hatred between the hero and the villain responsible.


Even disregarding the gender mismatch, there is no real villain who is responsible for what happened to Elam. Just a series of unfortunate events. I guess you could kind of blame the Mormons, but the connection between the Mormons kidnapping Bohannan and what happened to Elam is tenuous.

I suppose if Bohannan went on to have a deep and lasting hatred of bears, then you might sort of have a case.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

In this case, the villain is the writers. 

Seriously, though, it seems the only reason he was brought back was to be killed in order to make Bohanon suffer. I think it's a pretty perfect example of the trope (although, as I said, a well-executed one).


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> In this case, the villain is the writers.
> 
> Seriously, though, it seems the only reason he was brought back was to be killed in order to make Bohanon suffer. I think it's a pretty perfect example of the trope (although, as I said, a well-executed one).


I think you're really reaching here. Calling it a "perfect" example of this so called _woman in refrigerator_ trope just makes no sense because there is no villain, Elam is not a woman, nor was he even Bohanon's love interest.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Remember Elam was trying to kill Bohannon and while Bohannon managed to elude Elam for a time, when it was clear he had little alternative, Bohannon stabbed Elam.


Yep. I'm amazed that it was missed that not only did Elam have the tip of his knife cutting into Bohannon's forehead, Bohannon said, "Forgive me." before he did his move to stab Elam.



dswallow said:


> A deep stomach stabbing -- as in intestines -- as in extremely unlikely there was any chance he'd survive that wound. It was just a matter of time before Elam would die... and probably rather painfully. Then there was considerable unspoken eye contact between them, after which Bohannon shot Elam, ostensibly to minimize his suffering towards his otherwise certain death.


'zactly. Maybe Sammy(?) tough it was a coup de gras with his, "What gave you the right?" but Bohannon was ending Elam's suffering in more than one way.

Remember that the caring squaw took the bear's teeth out of Elam's crushed head. He had physical brain damage.

I still never saw an explanation as why Elam thought he needed money he'd get for selling the women. I know. Not right in da head.

-----
How about Durant supposedly being beaten near ta death but standing up with nary a wound on him?

I hope that guy could call a cab from where he was left. 
-----

Backing up: Brigham Young sees potential help for the Mormons in the Swede having worked on the railroad and hating them, while they had the actual CHIEF ENGINEER and foreman in custody for months.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> Yep. How about Durant supposedly being beaten near ta death but standing up with nary a wound on him?


That made me 

He made a remarkable recovery. When he was talking to the daughter of the Senator he murdered, the camera was on the part of his face that was completely unscarred. Everyone seems to either die or heel quickly on this show.


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## Steveknj (Mar 10, 2003)

dswallow said:


> Remember Elam was trying to kill Bohannon and while Bohannon managed to elude Elam for a time, when it was clear he had little alternative, Bohannon stabbed Elam. A deep stomach stabbing -- as in intestines -- as in extremely unlikely there was any chance he'd survive that wound. It was just a matter of time before Elam would die... and probably rather painfully. Then there was considerable unspoken eye contact between them, after which Bohannon shot Elam, ostensibly to minimize his suffering towards his otherwise certain death.
> 
> Of course there was a certain resentment or even anger among Elam's friends, but Bohannon also has a long history of respect of and by those same people, and as evidenced by what happened during the funeral procession while carrying the casket, the townspeople who were mourning Elam showed they accepted Bohannon's actions by placing the casket on his cart and letting Bohannon take the casket for burial.


This is how I saw it. I thought it was well written and it validated last week's episode for me. His mind was totally going and now it was gone. I don't think Bohannon had any other choice but to kill him and I think, he wanted to do it rather than let the authorities do it. I think he tried to see if he could get through to him, but I think by the time the fight happened, he was too far gone.

And his reaction after, was one of someone who did something he really didn't want to but had no choice. His sobbing at the end showed that.

I thought this was one of the better episodes of any series I have seen this year.


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## stinkbomb1020 (Jul 18, 2004)

Talk about "drawn-out" closure for Elam's departure! I'm really liking this season, more so than the last. This season has reminded me some of Deadwood.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I thought Bohannon killed Elam to put him out of his misery and to keep Governor HopeHeGetsKilledSoon's men from killing him.

I know the writers wanted to show Bohannon's grief but Psalms should have been at Elam's burial.

I was kinda happy that Durant clobbered that guy.

I did a quick search but didn't see a reason why Common left the show.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

Howie said:


> I disagree with you totally. Funny how people can watch the same thing and come up with completely different interpretations. To me, the townspeople were at first shocked, but then realized that Bohannan was only putting the man out of his misery.





Steveknj said:


> This is how I saw it. I thought it was well written and it validated last week's episode for me. His mind was totally going and now it was gone. I don't think Bohannon had any other choice but to kill him and I think, he wanted to do it rather than let the authorities do it. I think he tried to see if he could get through to him, but I think by the time the fight happened, he was too far gone.
> 
> And his reaction after, was one of someone who did something he really didn't want to but had no choice. His sobbing at the end showed that.
> 
> I thought this was one of the better episodes of any series I have seen this year.


Yeah, that's the version of HoW I watched, not the version where it proved Bohannon was a cold-blooded killer.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

I was wondering during most of that scene why Bohannan and Psalms did not work together to disarm and subdue Elam.

But even if they had managed it, in those times there was nothing to be done with a violently insane person who has no wealthy relatives. No one Elam knew would have been able to take care of him, so it would just be a matter of time before he picked a fight and got killed, or got arrested and hanged.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I'm starting to think of the writers for Hell On Wheels as clones of Ronald D. Moore; each week they just pull it out of their @#$!


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

I don't know about anyone else, but I cried at the end.

Watching Bohannon break down - it was heartbreaking.

I know a lot of people didn't like last weeks episode, but I think we needed it to show just how broken Elam was. Otherwise this episode would not have been as powerful.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

This article addresses why Common left the show and what the scene signified for Bohannon.

http://deadline.com/2014/09/hell-on-wheels-spoilers-death-season-4-amc-831440/

If you don't want to read the article but want the answers:

They killed off Elam because:



Spoiler



... the decision to kill him off was ultimately a consequence of Common's desire to devote more time to his Grammy-winning hip-hop career.

'The way it came together was Rashid called me last year just before Christmas," explains Wirth (citing the performer's real name, Lonnie Rashid Lynn Jr.). "This was after we had wrapped Season 3 and we were on hiatus. He HELL ON WHEELS JOHN WIRTHtold me that he thought maybe it was time for him to leave the show."



What it means for Bohannon:



Spoiler



"We needed Bohannon in that decision point where he decides to kill him, it's a mercy killing," showrunner John Wirth told me of the long-held plot secret. "Having our hero end his friend's life in that way is tricky and I wanted it to be very clear that there were no other options as far as Cullen Bohannon saw."


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

I think that Bohannon standing there, keeping Elam from stabbing him in the head for, what, five seconds? - staring at him, and then calmly saying "Sorry friend" or close to it, before pulling a "Josey Wales" and killing the guy with his own blade, had the situation well in hand (the situation being Elam, in his state, was really no threat to Bohannon). He could have disarmed him, knocked him out, held him down, whatever, he clearly has him physically overmatched here. He chose to kill him. Mercy or not, killing your friend when there's other options is, in my book, cold-blooded.

All that said, I was shocked at the scene, which is good tv. I enjoyed the episode more than any other episode in a long time. This year's HOW has been really strong.

I expect the exuberance to be tempered next week, when we see more of the Swede storyline.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

rimler said:


> Mercy or not, killing your friend when there's other options is, in my book, cold-blooded.


What other option was there? Bohannan could do it, or the thugs with the rifles could do it, or they could wait until Elam picked a fight with someone and killed him.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> I don't know about anyone else, but I cried at the end.
> Watching Bohannon break down - it was heartbreaking.
> I know a lot of people didn't like last weeks episode, but I think we needed it to show just how broken Elam was. Otherwise this episode would not have been as powerful.


I had the same take away, I was very moved by it and how horrible Bohannon had to have felt knowing he did the "right" thing.

All in all if we needed a Common break to let him go out like this and let Bohannon have this moment, I'm good with it.


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> I had the same take away, I was very moved by it and how horrible Bohannon had to have felt knowing he did the "right" thing.
> 
> All in all if we needed a Common break to let him go out like this and let Bohannon have this moment, I'm good with it.


:up::up::up:


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

rimler said:


> I expect the exuberance to be tempered next week, when we see more of the Swede storyline.


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

cheesesteak said:


> Governor HopeHeGetsKilledSoon


Ha ha. Am I the only one on here that likes that character. He's the guy that we love to hate, but he acts with such measured precision that his actions are very much like well thought out chess moves - an interesting correlation to him shown when he was standing over the chess board in this last episode.

He exists for no other reason than to make Durant's life miserable, so most people end up hoping Durant comes out on top. I personally think Durant is the greater evil. He is the corrupt businessman who will walk over anyone to get his way. So many people forget that he was the villain in past seasons and how ruthless he has been.

The new governor is driven, but doesn't try to walk over anyone except Durant. He offered to buy out Mickey when he didn't need to. He held off his gunmen so that Cullen could try to reason with Elam. That shows at least some sense of decency toward the other characters. Yes, he does things to force everyone in line - to follow his rules - but as long as you play by the rules, he seems to be pretty decent.

I also love the way he carries on conversations with an almost monotonous tone - indicating almost an apathetic feeling towards everything around him. It's very cold and methodical. He never shows emotion.

I hope to see more of him getting under Durant's skin. I'd like to see his character stay for a while.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

stinkbomb1020 said:


> Talk about "drawn-out" closure for Elam's departure! I'm really liking this season, more so than the last. This season has reminded me some of Deadwood.


Good analogy, I agree. I loved Deadwood and I think this is the best season of HOW so far.


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

jeff92k7 said:


> The new governor... does things to force everyone in line - to follow his rules - but as long as you play by the rules, he seems to be pretty decent.


Well, I should have known after typing that, he would change. Letting murderers and criminals become lawmen?!?! That is just wrong and totally goes against everything he has stood for up until now. He was all about bringing law and order to Cheyenne, and now employs law-breakers to bring about law and order? I think that was going too far and was out of character, but I suppose the writers needed some way to get Cullen to go after him.

I don't think the writers are at the top of their game this season. They wasted two episodes on Elam, just to kill him off (even after he was already dead), and now they are altering their characters convictions for sake of plot advancement. Surely, there is better writing they could come up with to move the story along this season.

What does everyone think about Cullen leaving his wife and baby with the Mormons? I think I'm okay with it, because it doesn't hold Cullen back, but at the same time, it was nice to see him softening when they were around.

I do wonder what the Swede has coming. Brigham Young seems to have something up his sleeve. His character just comes across as if he's scheming about something. I did get a kick out of the Swede's actions on the top of the hill. It was like he was way out of his league, but trying to come up with anything to impress Brigham Young.

This is one show that always ends too soon. I always want just a few minutes more.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

From the beginning it was obvious that he was NOT a man of law and order, just an opportunist who loved power and exerting his power over people. This episode did not show anything new in that respect.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

jeff92k7 said:


> Well, I should have known after typing that, he would change. Letting murderers and criminals become lawmen?!?! That is just wrong and totally goes against everything he has stood for up until now. He was all about bringing law and order to Cheyenne, and now employs law-breakers to bring about law and order? I think that was going too far and was out of character, but I suppose the writers needed some way to get Cullen to go after him.


What he stood for up until now??? The guy is a Carpetbagger! All he has ever stood for is how he could personally profit from the situation he was reluctantly sent into. If you believe for a second that his goal is "law and order" for the good of the people, you really don't understand what is going on. Hiring criminals is TOTALLY in character with his objectives.



jeff92k7 said:


> I don't think the writers are at the top of their game this season. They wasted two episodes on Elam, just to kill him off (even after he was already dead), and now they are altering their characters convictions for sake of plot advancement. Surely, there is better writing they could come up with to move the story along this season.


Again, I disagree. I think this season has been very strong, particularly in terms of character development. I think we have a very good understanding of who these people are, and why they do the things they do. I don't see any alteration at all, and I think the writing has been pretty good.



jeff92k7 said:


> What does everyone think about Cullen leaving his wife and baby with the Mormons? I think I'm okay with it, because it doesn't hold Cullen back, but at the same time, it was nice to see him softening when they were around.


HE didn't leave her, SHE left him. He was thrust into a situation he wasn't prepared for, and did very little to change his ways now that he was married with a child. I think he loves his child, and maybe even his wife in a way - but not enough to change for either of them. He frightened her, which is why she left him.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I knew the "Cullen as a family man" wouldn't/couldn't last. Maybe there is some interesting twist coming but the Swede storyline is brutally boring and bad. Where did Mickey come back from? I don't remember him leaving town.


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

VegasVic said:


> Where did Mickey come back from? I don't remember him leaving town.


I don't know where he went, but he left after the governor took over his casino and then offered to pay him for it. Mickey rejected the money and just left.


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## Edmund (Nov 8, 2002)

The 8th episode hasn't showed up yet via my amazon season pass.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

VegasVic said:


> ... Where did Mickey come back from? I don't remember him leaving town.





jeff92k7 said:


> I don't know where he went, but he left after the governor took over his casino and then offered to pay him for it. Mickey rejected the money and just left.


That's it, other than how Mickey beat the U.S. Marshall (? Constable?) to death first. (Durant beat the US Marshall? Making the point - don't be a cop in Cheyenne.)

The question is, why did Mickey come back to Cheyenne?


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

The Governor only wants Cheyenne to heel.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> The Governor only wants Cheyenne to heel.


But does he have his dead daughter stored in a trunk somewhere?


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## rimler (Jun 30, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> The question is, why did Mickey come back to Cheyenne?


1. Revenge on the Gov.
2. Get his casino back/re-open.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I like Mickey, glad his character is back.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

VegasVic said:


> I like Mickey, glad his character is back.


Yup, he is one charismatic serial killer.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

rimler said:


> 1. Revenge on the Gov.
> 2. Get his casino back/re-open.


Thought I was reading about New Jersey for a sec.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Just watched this weeks. So like 25 guys are all firing rifles at the sheriff and his train car, and they aren't hitting anyone. And sheriff goes to throw dynamite and nobody thinks to pull the trigger. The part that has me confused is I thought for sure the newspaper lady was in on it and her job was to take out the governor.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

I think the newspaper lady is playing the long con for information/influence.


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

DouglasPHill said:


> The part that has me confused is I thought for sure the newspaper lady was in on it and her job was to take out the governor.


I was thinking the same thing. I was wondering if that will become clearer in the next episode. When she was standing in front of his door, before knocking, it appeared that she was trying to build up the courage to go through with it. It was like she knew she had to do this, but didn't want to.

Especially with her "past relationships", it seems odd that she would suddenly fall for the governor without some ulterior motive.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

dwatt said:


> I think the newspaper lady is playing the long con for information/influence.


Totally..

I thought the same thing on the poor shooting in the train ambush, but all in all I've been ok with this season so far except for the Common episodes.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

That Cullen jest cain't kill a baddie ta save 'is life.

The Swede survived hanging.

Sidney survived a hanging.

Sidney survives a Gattling Gun.


And Elam survived a bear attack.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeAndrews said:


> That Cullen jest cain't kill a baddie ta save 'is life.
> 
> The Swede survives hanging.
> Stanley survived a hanging.
> ...


Huh? I assume you mean Sydney, not Stanley.

And Cullen had nothing to do with Sydney's hanging, and Cullen DID kill Elam once he went bad.

The other two are valid points.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

john4200 said:


> Huh? I assume you mean Sydney, not Stanley.
> 
> And Cullen had nothing to do with Sydney's hanging, and Cullen DID kill Elam once he went bad.
> 
> The other two are valid points.


Fixed.

I knew the differences. I couldn't remember other times when a dead guy didn't stay dead.

Of yeah, sorta: The Mormons think that the bishop's kid is dead.

I'm still wondering when we'll have the kid confront the Swede.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

MikeAndrews said:


> I'm still wondering when we'll have the kid confront the Swede.


That will be one of the story lines next season if it comes back. I bet the show follows its end of season pattern and has most people die in the last episode.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Glad no Swede in this last one. Ridiculous that Sidney just disappears. Mickey certainly took one for the team.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

Another one: Mr. O'Toole. Elam shot him in the mouth but he still walked back to town and apologized.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

MikeAndrews said:


> Another one: Mr. O'Toole. Elam shot him in the mouth but he still walked back to town and apologized.


In my opinion that one was better written and played out better than Elam and the bear.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I thought this latest epside was "ok" but not great. I'm not sure why they are taking a month long break but I guess they've set it up to go back to focusing on the railroad.

Ane please, just end the Swede storyline already.


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## dwatt (Jan 11, 2007)

I guess with the swede already outed to Brigham Young the kid was no longer necessary for that story line and was free to be used as the trigger for a different one. For all of the graphic violence and deaths the show has shown this season I am surprised that they chose not to show the kid at all.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I enjoyed the last episode and applauded church-lady (a character I didn't like much since the first season). When "life is a mystery" strolled into town, I thought, "anyone could put a bullet in that armed criminal threatening people and end it."



Spoiler



The idea that she would be charged for the shooting is ridiculous. Maybe that is how Cullen's wife will come back in since she did see him murder that other kid.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

MikeAndrews said:


> Fixed.
> 
> I knew the differences. I couldn't remember other times when a dead guy didn't stay dead.
> 
> ...


I guess we now know the answer to that!


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

"Everything I know I learned from Cullen Bohannon"


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

dwatt said:


> For all of the graphic violence and deaths the show has shown this season I am surprised that they chose not to show the kid at all.


They wrote themselves into a corner. It made no sense that the boy would be dead hiding under that perfectly solid and intact floorboard. So, what would they have shown? Him drowned from the bucket brigade? No, he could have just pushed the board up and gotten out of the water. Certainly not him burned horribly, since he could not be burned much if the board above him was completely fine. Death from smoke inhalation? Since smoke rises, that would make no sense, and how do you show it anyway?

Terrible writing.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

So the writers do nothing with the boy and his ties to Swede and then kill him. Loved Ruth taking the law into her own hands. A good episode. I would have taken out the governors' men before talking to the governor.


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## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

So much for my theory about the kid finding The Swede.

Brigham Young would have to have known that Cullen Bohannon was held at Fort Smith. Again he had better railroad man then.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

john4200 said:


> They wrote themselves into a corner. It made no sense that the boy would be dead hiding under that perfectly solid and intact floorboard. So, what would they have shown? Him drowned from the bucket brigade? No, he could have just pushed the board up and gotten out of the water. Certainly not him burned horribly, since he could not be burned much if the board above him was completely fine. Death from smoke inhalation? Since smoke rises, that would make no sense, and how do you show it anyway?
> 
> Terrible writing.


Before any water arrived, the child had been cooked like a potato in a broiler, a particularly gruesome death.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

The fire would have consumed all the oxygen.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

ej42137 said:


> Before any water arrived, the child had been cooked like a potato in a broiler, a particularly gruesome death.


That's ridiculous. There was not even close to enough heat coming down through a perfectly intact floorboard from a mostly intact floor to do any such thing.


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## john4200 (Nov 1, 2009)

DouglasPHill said:


> The fire would have consumed all the oxygen.


Nope, there were windows and doors open.


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## jeff92k7 (Jan 18, 2006)

I thought the conversation was interesting between newspaper lady and Eva about how that place changes you and if you stay long enough, you'll be capable of anything. That played right into church lady's reaction at the end - the one person you think wouldn't be corrupted turned out to prove Eva's point.

Plus, it was cool how church lady looked evil there at the end. black dress, pale face, sheer anger without regard to anything else.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dwatt said:


> ... For all of the _*graphic violence and deaths*_ the show has shown this season I am surprised that they chose not to show the kid at all.


Seriously? Apparently you don't watch Walking Dead....HOW pales by comparison....


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

jeff92k7 said:


> Plus, it was cool how church lady looked evil there at the end. black dress, pale face, sheer anger without regard to anything else.


I don't know why it took me so long to watch these final two episodes. Church Lady looked totally badass in that scene. Let her be the new mayor.

I wonder how any real Mormons who happen to watch this show feel about the depiction of Brigham Young. He punched the Swede in the face. I wish it were 4 or 5 times.

Sydney Snow is annoying. I guess he's the new bad guy who just won't go away.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

wow that was not their normal finale. I assume lots died in the smallpox but normally they kill lots of characters we know. Someone earlier had mentioned that governor carpetbagger was a real name from history so he had to end up with control of the territory. All in all, a little disappointing.


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