# Is Plus really worth double the price of basic?



## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm debating between the basic and the plus. Hard to justify double the price. I currently have a 6-year old TiVo HD (2 tuners). So moving to the basic will be a big upgrade for me. I can't imagine needing 6 tuners and figure I'll do fine with the storage capacity since it's a lot more than what I'm used to. I also don't really care about the streaming. However... I don't want to have buyer's remorse and wish I had upgraded. Is there something I'm missing regarding a compelling reason to go with the Plus vs the basic?

ALSO... unrelated question--Roamio does support Cox VOD, correct? Thanks!


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## waterchange (Jun 29, 2010)

Nope, you pretty much covered it all. Plus benefits are larger drive, 2 more tuners, stream. Basic has support for OTA.


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## uw69 (Jan 25, 2001)

If you don't need 6 tuners or built in streaming, seems like the basic model would be perfect for you.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

If you only need 4 tuners and don't care about Stream and built in MoCA/bridging which Basic also doesn't have, then Basic should be fine. IMO you can never have enough tuners especially when events such as Olympics roll around. I need 5 tuners for myself during busy TV season.

Cox VOD was never rolled out for TiVos (Comcast VOD was).


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## ihtc (Apr 3, 2010)

I got a Premiere last year, but am now thinking of upgrading just so I can work with the Mini. I want to put a mini in my bedroom (where i have a network cable but no coax cable). I got the mini without reading first  , that i need a 4 tuner DVR.

The streaming etc is nice, but I can do without. I can also do without the extra space. However, I did notice the base is only 10/100 for network, which really should be fine since mini only supports 10/100 anyway. 


Side note: I wish plex had a tivo app so i could get rid of my roku player  As i run a plex media server for my movies. 

In reality I am being picky because I don't want buyers remorse and I am already upset spending almost $300 last year for my Premiere XL and 3 year warranty, which is almost worthless on ebay and craigslist. 

If the dear members of this forum convince me I think i will go get the base this evening from best buy and swap out my Premiere (I hope i can keep the $12.99 monthly i negotiated (one device), just earlier today on my premiere)


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

waterchange said:


> Nope, you pretty much covered it all. Plus benefits are larger drive, 2 more tuners, stream. Basic has support for OTA.


Plus also has integrated MoCA bridge which is worth another $50-$70 if you ever want to extend the network over coax for supporting TiVo Minis. Also has a remote finder which is kinda of neat and maybe worth $10.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Also has component jacks if you want to go that route.


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## Devx (Jun 1, 2006)

Differences in the Plus from the basic:

2 additional tuners
MoCa support (w/ Ethernet bridge mode)
1 Gbps (1000Mbps) port speed
75 HD hrs more storage capacity (both can be upgraded to 450 HD hrs)
Standby button
Remote Finder
Built-in TiVo Stream
Internal power supply
Larger internal fan
Steel construction (except faceplate)
Component/Composite jacks


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes, it is. Streaming and downloading to my iPad. Starting YouTube playback from my iPad. Extra tuners and larger capacity. All great.

Of course, I say that having decided that the extra capacity for the Pro wasn't worth another $200. So find your price point and enjoy


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

Thanks all for the replies. I guess part of the problem in my decision making is that I'm fairly ignorant of the finer points of the technology. That is, I don't know what MoCa is and why I would need "Ethernet bridge mode." I don't know what it means to "extend the network over coax"--can't I use a TiVo mini with the basic model? Or will I need to buy something additional to make it work? And I don't know what practical difference the "port speed" makes or what I'd need the "component/composite" jacks for. 

Really bummed about the Cox VOD. I ran across an item online from a couple of years ago that said the Premiere supports Cox VOD so I thought the Roamio would too. But maybe that fell through and the Premiere doesn't support Cox VOD either? I really think the fact that the consumer is caught between the turf wars of the cable companies and TiVo is ridiculous!


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

If you have cat5 to all locations you can deploy mini's. If u only have coax to some of those locations you would need moca adapters with the Roamio basic.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

jmpage2 said:


> If you have cat5 to all locations you can deploy mini's. If u only have coax to some of those locations you would need moca adapters with the Roamio basic.


Question: I'm using older FiOS Motorola NIM 100's right now at all my TV drops for ethernet over coax...so the built-in MOCA wouldn't be a big deal in my case, correct?

My main HD box with Lifetime just died, and I'm trying to decide whether just to upgrade that drive or go with a Roamio. I could get basic and use a MyDVR expander, or even upgrade the drive (since it appears to be plug 'n play) and save some money.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

saibari said:


> I don't know what MoCa is and why I would need "Ethernet bridge mode." I don't know what it means to "extend the network over coax"--can't I use a TiVo mini with the basic model? Or will I need to buy something additional to make it work?


You can use a TiVo Mini with the base model Roamio, but the Mini requires a network connection to the Roamio and the Internet in order to work.

TiVo has deemed WiFi connections not reliable enough for the Mini, so you'll need a wired network connection that connects the Mini to both the Roamio and the Internet.

If you're lucky, your house was pre-wired with Ethernet (CAT-5/CAT-6), and you'll have an Ethernet jack in each room. Assuming you already have that setup, you'd just plug the Mini and the Roamio into their respective Ethernet jacks, and you should be good to go.

If you're like most people, you don't live in a house that was pre-wired with Ethernet, but you probably have a "Cable TV" jack in most rooms. MoCa is a technology that lets devices like the Roamio/Mini use the "Cable TV" wiring for networking. The Mini has MoCa built-in, and the Roamio Plus and Pro come with MoCa bridges, but the basic Roamio does not have anything MoCa. So if you want to use MoCa to connect the Mini to the basic Roamio, you'll have to buy a separate MoCa adapter for the basic Roamio. At that point, you've created a network between the Mini and the Roamio, but you still need a way for the Mini to get on the Internet. This is where the "bridge" comes in. A MoCa bridge connects the MoCa network to your house's regular network that has Internet access. You just need one bridge somewhere in your house, and that bridge will allow all of the MoCa devices to have Internet access.

IIRC, TiVo sells separate MoCa bridges for $50 (plus shipping). So even if you need one or two, it still sounds like a basic Mini will be less expensive than the Plus (if you truly would have no use for streaming, the extra tuners, etc).



> I ran across an item online from a couple of years ago that said the Premiere supports Cox VOD so I thought the Roamio would too. But maybe that fell through and the Premiere doesn't support Cox VOD either?


Correct, the Premiere doesn't support Cox VOD either.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

dslunceford said:


> Question: I'm using older FiOS Motorola NIM 100's right now at all my TV drops for ethernet over coax...so the built-in MOCA wouldn't be a big deal in my case, correct?
> 
> My main HD box with Lifetime just died, and I'm trying to decide whether just to upgrade that drive or go with a Roamio. I could get basic and use a MyDVR expander, or even upgrade the drive (since it appears to be plug 'n play) and save some money.


It sounds like you are already using MoCA, so I have no idea how the TiVo Mini would work in such a scenario, you might have to split the coaxial at the wall plate if you need the Mini plus another "TV drop over ethernet" at that location.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> It sounds like you are already using MoCA, so I have no idea how the TiVo Mini would work in such a scenario, you might have to split the coaxial at the wall plate if you need the Mini plus another "TV drop over ethernet" at that location.


If the FiOS Motorola NIM 100's are giving him ethernet at all of his TV drops currently, couldn't he just plug the Mini into one of them via Ethernet?


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## P42 (Jan 7, 2003)

ihtc said:


> Side note: I wish plex had a tivo app so i could get rid of my roku player  As i run a plex media server for my movies.


Take a wander over to TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo section of the forum, and learn about StreamBaby.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

aristoBrat said:


> If the FiOS Motorola NIM 100's are giving him ethernet at all of his TV drops currently, couldn't he just plug the Mini into one of them via Ethernet?


Assuming he has an ethernet port available then sure, otherwise he would have to install an ethernet switch.

It is becoming more apparent with the advent of the Roamio and Mini that TCF needs a dedicated network sub-forum to handle the numerous questions people have about basic home networking.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

jmpage2 said:


> Assuming he has an ethernet port available then sure, otherwise he would have to install an ethernet switch.
> 
> It is becoming more apparent with the advent of the Roamio and Mini that TCF needs a dedicated network sub-forum to handle the numerous questions people have about basic home networking.


I have 5 port switches at each TV drop as well. In my family room it's the Nim to switch which then connects to my THD and PlayStation3. In the home theater it's the same, + an AV receiver connected to the switch.

Basically, I was trying to determine if the built in MOCA on the Roamio serves the same purpose as my Nim 100, and it appears the answer is yes. As I have multiple devices using MOCA, having that feature built-in doesn't really add anything in my situation, and makes the Basic an option to consider.

However, ordering a Pro and a mini might work as well, especially as I could sell the HDs with Lifetime on eBay to help defray costs....


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## saibari (Jan 11, 2008)

Thank you aristoBrat for taking the time to explain things in plain English! Since I tend to keep my TiVos a long time, I'll likely bite the bullet and go with the Plus.


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## drugrep (Mar 16, 2002)

I went with the plus for the streaming.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

dslunceford said:


> However, ordering a Pro and a mini might work as well, especially as I could sell the HDs with Lifetime on eBay to help defray costs....


Some folks have reported issues with the older NIM 100's mixed with the Tivo's integrated moca. They don't seem to always play nice. Just something to keep in mind. The "work-around" would be not to use the integrated moca, which it sounds like you don't need.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Some folks have reported issues with the older NIM 100's mixed with the Tivo's integrated moca. They don't seem to always play nice. Just something to keep in mind. The "work-around" would be not to use the integrated moca, which it sounds like you don't need.


 Yes, I couldn't use my NIM100 as MoCA master and have the Elite or the Mini connect to it using their internal MoCA devices. Of course if you continue to use NIM100 adapters without using the internal MoCA devices that should be fine. Eventually I just bought a new MoCA 1.1 adapter (NIM100 was 1.0 I believe) and that worked fine with Mini and Elite. With that setup I was able to get rid of 2 external MoCA adaptors.


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## ihtc (Apr 3, 2010)

I ended up with the base model and the best buy triple points offer. I think for many multi tv homes the upgrade makes sense to the pro. For me I am in a one bedroom co op in NYC. So my upgrade was really to use a mini in bedroom because I actually had run a cat5 cable to the bedroom a year ago for a roku so I was set already. I actually don't have a coax cable in the bedroom . For two TVs the 4 tuners is plenty for my use. Since the mini only has 10/100 the upgraded speed of the pro Ethernet port would be eared on one mini. So for me and my use I couldn't justify the extra $200 since the experience would have ended up the same . The mini I did lifetime , the regular TiVo box I didn't because I have changed my box for the newer ones before the three year break even period based in my plan. Mini was a two year break even period so I went for that


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

But if you lifetime your main Roamio it'll be worth a heck of a lot more in a couple years, regardless of any break even points.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

moyekj said:


> Yes, I couldn't use my NIM100 as MoCA master and have the Elite or the Mini connect to it using their internal MoCA devices. Of course if you continue to use NIM100 adapters without using the internal MoCA devices that should be fine. Eventually I just bought a new MoCA 1.1 adapter (NIM100 was 1.0 I believe) and that worked fine with Mini and Elite. With that setup I was able to get rid of 2 external MoCA adaptors.


Is there a software setting to turn on/off internal MoCA?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dslunceford said:


> Is there a software setting to turn on/off internal MoCA?


Yes, you can set up for WiFi, direct Ethernet, or MoCA.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

lessd said:


> Yes, you can set up for WiFi, direct Ethernet, or MoCA.


Thanks. So sounds like direct Ethernet should be the way to go using my current adapters....


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dslunceford said:


> Thanks. So sounds like direct Ethernet should be the way to go using my current adapters....


Direct Ethernet would always be the best way, but most people (like myself ) don't have the jacks at each TiVo location so MoCA is the 2nd best for me and many others.


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## waterchange (Jun 29, 2010)

ihtc said:


> Side note: I wish plex had a tivo app so i could get rid of my roku player  As i run a plex media server for my movies.


I use pytivo to access movies/media files stored on my computer. I played with Streambaby too but pytivo has just worked so that's what I use.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

lessd said:


> Direct Ethernet would always be the best way, but most people (like myself ) don't have the jacks at each TiVo location so MoCA is the 2nd best for me and many others.


Well, he doesn't really have direct ethernet, he just has an existing MoCA setup which should still be able I guess to do what he's after, depending on how much traffic is running on that thing.


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## mumpower (Jul 24, 2003)

FWIW, I own both. From the situation you describe, the base model would probably work for you. What I can say from my own usage is that the difference between two feels dramatic to me, so much so that I almost returned the base unit after a few hours.


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## leiff (Aug 24, 2005)

mumpower said:


> FWIW, I own both. From the situation you describe, the base model would probably work for you. What I can say from my own usage is that the difference between two feels dramatic to me, so much so that I almost returned the base unit after a few hours.


The user interface should be the same right? Difference being limited to case esthetics? One thing that does interest me is fan noise. Can you compare? My xl4 is too loud for me. Another reason im trying to sell my xl4.


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## JasonD (Mar 30, 2003)

I would say that the plus is definately worth it. Better to have a feature and not need it, then to need it and not have it


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## ihtc (Apr 3, 2010)

HarperVision said:


> But if you lifetime your main Roamio it'll be worth a heck of a lot more in a couple years, regardless of any break even points.


I agree there . These are worthless without a lifetime . My premier I paid almost $300 after tax and a three year warranty just last year I see them selling for $40


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## wolfskinbjc (Apr 17, 2010)

how many tivo suggestions does the roamio use tuner wise?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

wolfskinbjc said:


> how many tivo suggestions does the roamio use tuner wise?


As many as it wants to. Potentially all but one.


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## mumpower (Jul 24, 2003)

leiff said:


> The user interface should be the same right? Difference being limited to case esthetics? One thing that does interest me is fan noise. Can you compare? My xl4 is too loud for me. Another reason im trying to sell my xl4.


The base unit is smaller, and it seems very breakable because of that. Simply stated, it feels like a cheap piece of electronics, which is exactly what it is.


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## apw2607 (Nov 17, 2012)

mumpower said:


> The base unit is smaller, and it seems very breakable because of that. Simply stated, it feels like a cheap piece of electronics, which is exactly what it is.


I actually disagree. I prefer the style and look of the base Roamio over the plus/pro. The base just seems to work in terms of style and flow where as the plus/pro seems a bit of a Frankenstein design. On one hand you have the new look tivo front panel and on the other you have a very traditional case. I don't think the two go together very well.

Regardless though. Plastic or not, I don't see how a plastic outer shell is anymore unreliable than a traditional metal one. It just sits on a shelf?


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## mumpower (Jul 24, 2003)

I cannot speak for anyone else. I am a power user who will eventually upgrade all of my Roamios to 3-4 TB storage. What I know after several days is that if one of the TiVos is somehow knocked to the ground from the entertainment stand (hello, fellow pet owners), the base unit is the one I am confident would not survive the plunge. 

Also, I have already run into issues this week with the 4 tuners rather than 6. Thankfully, we can record up to 16 shows via our three Roamios so it was an issue corrected by the other devices. Long term, I'm going to move the base unit into the bedroom since I do the least amount of recording there so that I have access to 12 programs in the living room. There, it will be subjected to the most pet-related danger so I am glad I bought the Square Trade warranty.


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

mumpower said:


> I cannot speak for anyone else. I am a power user who will eventually upgrade all of my Roamios to 3-4 TB storage. What I know after several days is that if one of the TiVos is somehow knocked to the ground from the entertainment stand (hello, fellow pet owners), the base unit is the one I am confident would not survive the plunge.


Being lighter, the 4-tuner base Roamio may be easier to knock off. But if such a fall should occur, I would be more worried about the hard drive surviving than about any possible damage to the case.


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## mumpower (Jul 24, 2003)

That's a fair point. I will say that from having popped the hood to upgrade the drive in the base unit, I noticed that *everything* is a tight fit. So it wouldn't take much for something to get dislodged.


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