# Bolt, moca,Ota...ugh



## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Ugh. I have tried everything, bought splitters, antennas, diplexer, and coax. I cut the cord...maybe too soon. I was cruising along fine with cable and moca except for my cable bill. Poe filter outside in cable box.inside the house, splitter with 1 cable to router/modem ( moca enabled) and the other to my bolt. Minis in each bedroom. Can someone please tell me the setup for using ota. If I unplug coax from bolt and replace with ota, the minis don't work. I tried a splitter and a diplexer. I have a Poe filter with antenna, but I've pulled that off and no difference there so not sure I need it. Help!


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Does this help?:

Combining MoCA and OTA signal Question w/ Diagram

But, know this: The POE filter CAN increase the MoCA signal on the line, so put one in.

-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

I have a bolt instead of roamio. Does that matter? And I don’t have moca adapters. My arris modem/router is moca ready so I didn’t need those for my config with cable


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Going by the diagram in that post, what if you used a diplexer to insert UHF/VHF signal in to your Bolt and also allowed MoCA out to the coax 'network'?

You said you bought splitters, but didn't mention which ones. Two things are important with the splitter specs. In no particular order, they need to pass MoCA frequencies. They start just above 1gHz and extend up to about 1.7gHz. A 2gHz or higher splitter is good, except that they also need low port isolation so the MoCA signals can actually get to the other devices. Think maybe as low as 15dB. 20 would work, too. I think some of the 'MoCA Rated' Holland splitters go as high as 25dB.

HTH,

-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Yep got the right splitters


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

OK...what about using the diplexer to insert at the Bolt coax jack?

-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

I’m not very techie. Took me forever to get my moca network running with cable. Are you saying, instead of the splitter right where cable enters home, put the diplexer there instead? Bolt to SAT and antenna to ANT...but how would modem/router get in the game?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Since I haven't seen your setup, the diagram from that post I linked to keeps popping in to my head. Referencing that, put the ant on the ANT port and the MoCA network on the other port and connect it to the Bolt...










Maybe you could sketch out a quick diagram of your setup?

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> Are you saying, instead of the splitter right where cable enters home, put the diplexer there instead? Bolt to SAT and antenna to ANT...but how would modem/router get in the game?


No, the antenna/satellite diplexer would be used just as in the diagram, with the antenna connected to the "VHF/UHF" port of the diplexer and the "SAT" port of the diplexer connected to the coax line heading back towards your cable gateway; the "IN/OUT" port of the diplexer would connect to your BOLT's coax port.

The updated diagram from the thread being referenced provides a clearer illustration of the necessary connections:










(from this post)


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Here’s diagram. Pretty simple. And I’m just trying to use a portable antennae. And it works to plug the antennae into bolt but then I lose moca network.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> I have a bolt instead of roamio. Does that matter?


Right, with a BOLT you have built-in MoCA connectivity, so the separate MoCA adapter at the DVR location is not needed, in your case.



Chstvaddict said:


> And I don't have moca adapters. My arris modem/router is moca ready so I didn't need those for my config with cable


And if you're using your cable gateway (combo modem/router) to establish your MoCA network, then the MoCA adapter at the modem/router location in the above diagram can also be scrapped, streamlining the coax connections, as well.

*But please note... *How the rooms interconnect in the above diagram does NOT apply to your situation, since you have a cable modem connection. I'll look around for a more applicable diagram, but, in the meantime, you should have a "PoE" MoCA filter on the input to the first splitter encountered by your incoming cable signal. Ideally, your top level splitter is a 2-way with one output connecting to the cable gateway (to provide the gateway with the best possible signal); and the other output of this 2-way should connect to another splitter with just enough outputs to support your MoCA client locations.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

I think my modem/router is serving as my moca adapter? It was the only one I could find moca-ready


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

I put one poe filter outside in the box where the cable originates. I purchased another one recently to stick with the antennae


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> I was cruising along fine with cable and moca except for my cable bill. Poe filter outside in cable box.inside the house, splitter with 1 cable to router/modem ( moca enabled) and the other to my bolt. Minis in each bedroom. Can someone please tell me the setup for using ota. If I unplug coax from bolt and replace with ota, the minis don't work. I tried a splitter and a diplexer. I have a Poe filter with antenna, but I've pulled that off and no difference there so not sure I need it. Help!


What do you mean by "moca enabled" in the statement: "1 cable to router/modem ( moca enabled)"? Are you using a MoCA-capable cable gateway and are using the gateway to establish your MoCA network? Or are you just saying that the cable gateway is MoCA friendly, but you're using your BOLT, configured as a MoCA bridge, to establish your MoCA network?

The fact that the Minis fail to connect when the coax is removed from the BOLT indicates that you're using the BOLT to establish your MoCA network (configured via network settings using "Set up as Bridge"); however, this conflicts with the "moca enabled" statement regarding the gateway, as you cannot have two MoCA bridges.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> I think my modem/router is serving as my moca adapter? It was the only one I could find moca-ready


What is the brand and model number of your cable gateway?

Is your BOLT connected to the gateway via Ethernet?

Can you check the BOLT's "Network Status" dialog and report what is says. Access the dialog via:

TiVo Central
> Settings & Messages
> Network Settings
> Network Troubleshooting
> Network Status​You could also drop into the "Change Network Settings" dialog to report the status of each connection type.

TiVo Central
> Settings & Messages
> Network Settings
> Change Network Settings​


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Bolt is setup as moca bridge. Moca + Ethernet.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I would guess you have the Arris SBG6782-AC? 

I've used them a lot. There's 2 sitting 20' from me now.

In your diagram, where are you Mini's?

Also, you shouldn't need the ethernet wire, since everything is MoCA.

-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

My modem


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

My mini cables are under the house. I just used existing coax left over from a cable company where once I paid for additional rooms. So the cable comes up through the floor from that main box outside where I put the Poe filter.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

I think the bolt has to be wired, thus the Ethernet.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> What do you mean by "moca enabled" in the statement: "1 cable to router/modem ( moca enabled)"? Are you using a MoCA-capable cable gateway and are using the gateway to establish your MoCA network? Or are you just saying that the cable gateway is MoCA friendly, but you're using your BOLT, configured as a MoCA bridge, to establish your MoCA network?
> 
> The fact that the Minis fail to connect when the coax is removed from the BOLT indicates that you're using the BOLT to establish your MoCA network (configured via network settings using "Set up as Bridge"); however, this conflicts with the "moca enabled" statement regarding the gateway, as you cannot have two MoCA bridges.


I think that was my issue with installation. At one point in the configuration I had 2 moca bridges. I keep thinking I need to get the modem in the picture. I've tried diplexer on the bolt side and splitters lots of different ways but haven't touched the line that goes to the modem


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

No Ma'am...it's MoCA capable.









(Or something like that...)

-KP


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You have 'enabled' the MoCA feature on the Arris, haven't you?

It's 'off' by default...

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Assuming everything was working fine before, the following diagram simply replaces the cable TV signal with an OTA signal, maintaining whatever MoCA setup you previously had, assuming you haven't altered other connections or configurations in the interim.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> I think the bolt has to be wired, thus the Ethernet.


If the BOLT is being used as the MoCA bridge (i.e. bridging between MoCA/coax and the Ethernet LAN), then most definitely. The just-posted diplexer configuration should work for you, assuming, as stated, everything else has remained the same from your working cable TV/Internet setup.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

I just checked and moca is not enabled on the modem


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Thanks. I think I tried that, but let me try again


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> My modem


Arris SBG6782-AC... with built-in "MoCA 1.1 Access Point" (i.e. MoCA bridge)

So, if the BOLT is being used as the MoCA bridge, then the MoCA functionality in this gateway must be disabled.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

The SBG6782-AC is a MoCA Gateway. It's very similar to a Comcast Router from a few years back.

It works pretty good. No ethernet should be necessary.

Startup procedure:

Unplug all Mini's
Enable MoCA on Router.
Configure Bolt for MoCA internet use.
Fire up first Mini, configure for MoCA.
Fire up next Mini.
Etc...

-KP


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Arris SBG6782-AC... with built-in "MoCA 1.1 Access Point" (i.e. MoCA bridge)
> 
> So, if the BOLT is being used as the MoCA bridge, then the MoCA functionality in this gateway must be disabled.


No, don't do that.

See above...

-KP


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

This should work, if MoCA's enabled on router:










-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> This should work, if MoCA's enabled on router:


Except the OP has already stated that the BOLT is configured for MoCA+Ethernet, their symptoms indicate the BOLT is configured as the MoCA bridge, and things were working previously with the cable setup... so it should be as simple as your previous suggestion, to simply get things working. The OP can decide later whether the gateway or BOLT would be the preferred MoCA bridge.



kpeters59 said:


> Going by the diagram in that post, what if you used a diplexer to insert UHF/VHF signal in to your Bolt and also allowed MoCA out to the coax 'network'?


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Same thing happens.  Tivo not seeing antennae. Prob with signal.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> Same thing happens. Tivo not seeing antennae. Prob with signal.


Please provide a picture of the diplexer, ideally with the connections labeled. (Diplexers are simple filters, so I'd lean towards something being wrong with the diplexer.)

Also, please provide feedback on the MoCA status with the diplexer in place.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Chstvaddict said:


> Same thing happens. Tivo not seeing antennae. Prob with signal.


Can the Bolt connect to the TiVo service via MoCA?

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Are you using a signal booster in conjunction with your portable antenna?


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Anything special about diplexer? I just ordered the first one I saw on amazon


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> Can the Bolt connect to the TiVo service via MoCA?


Well, the BOLT should be connecting to the TiVo service via its Ethernet port, since it's the MoCA bridge; the question is whether the MoCA-connected Minis can see the Internet and the TiVo service with the diplexer connected.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Are you using a signal booster in conjunction with your portable antenna?


No


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> Anything special about diplexer? I just ordered the first one I saw on amazon


This is why I'm asking for details on the diplexer you have.

Known good parts here.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Well, the BOLT should be connecting to the TiVo service via its Ethernet port, since it's the MoCA bridge; the question is whether the Minis can see the Internet and the TiVo service with the diplexer connected.


The minis are working with this config, but since Tivo can't see antennae, I can only view recorded shows


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Except the OP has already stated that the BOLT is configured for MoCA+Ethernet, theirr symptoms indicate the BOLT is configured as the MoCA bridge, and things were working previously with the cable setup... so it should be as simple as your previous suggestion, to simply get things working. The OP can decide later whether the gateway or BOLT would be the preferred MoCA bridge.
> 
> ​


I suppose. But, the point of getting the MoCA Router is to use it. I'd assume he didn't end up with that router accidentally. I'm having to hunt for them anymore.

True that it worked before, but just now reviewing early post's, she doesn't actually say it's configured that way. It must be though, if MoCA is (was) disabled on the router.

-KP


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Chstvaddict said:


> The minis are working with this config, but since Tivo can't see antennae, I can only view recorded shows


Which config, exactly?

Is it possible, at this point, that it's now just an OTA signal strength issue?

How well does the Bolt receive if the antenna is plugged in to the Bolt directly?

-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> This is why I'm asking for details on the diplexer you have.
> 
> Known good parts here.


Here ya go


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Can the Mini's connect to the TiVo service?

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> I suppose. But, the point of getting the MoCA Router is to use it. I'd assume he didn't end up with that router accidentally.


Agreed, but that's not the problem they have at present.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> I suppose. But, the point of getting the MoCA Router is to use it. I'd assume he didn't end up with that router accidentally. I'm having to hunt for them anymore.
> 
> True that it worked before, but just now reviewing early post's, he doesn't actually say it's configured that way. It must be though, if MoCA is (was) disabled on the router.
> 
> -KP


I'm a girl. I thought I needed moca router but support told me to disable and it worked after that.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Edited:

Bolt, moca,Ota...ugh

-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> Which config, exactly?
> 
> Is it possible, at this point, that it's now just an OTA signal strength issue?
> 
> ...


No. I'm keeping it on same channel to compare. I don't get many channels, but the ones I get when antenna is plugged in come in good


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

So, which config did you set up?

The one with MoCA enabled on the router?

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> Here ya go


Connected as follows?






​


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> This is why I'm asking for details on the diplexer you have.
> 
> Known good parts here.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Connected as follows?
> 
> View attachment 31033​


Yep


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Connected as follows?
> 
> View attachment 31033​


I didn't change my router


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> The minis are working with this config, but since Tivo can't see antennae, I can only view recorded shows


Ok, so the diplexer solved the MoCA issue; but now there's an antenna signal issue. Yea!



Chstvaddict said:


> No. I'm keeping it on same channel to compare. I don't get many channels, but the ones I get when antenna is plugged in come in good


What signal level do your channels report when the antenna is directly connected to the BOLT? And do ANY of them come in when the diplexer is connected? (I'm still leaning towards something being wrong with the diplexer.)

Bottom line... if you KNOW the BOLT works with a direct connection to the antenna, then you've hit the point where you may want to follow @kpeters59's suggestion to switch to using the cable gateway (SBG6782-AC) as your MoCA bridge, rather than the BOLT.

If you want to switch to this diplexer-less setup:

Disable MoCA on the BOLT, reverting it to an Ethernet-only connection;
Remove the diplexer and connect the BOLT directly to the antenna;
Verify BOLT antenna reception is acceptable;
Power off all your Minis;
Enable the MoCA bridge on the cable gateway;
Power on each Mini, verifying MoCA connectivity for each.
Note that with MoCA disabled on the BOLT and the BOLT directly connected to the antenna, the MoCA filter is not necessary on the antenna line.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Chstvaddict said:


> I didn't change my router


OK, but I bet I've installed 2 dozen systems following this diagram:










and these procedures:

Unplug all Mini's
Enable MoCA on Router.
Configure Bolt for MoCA internet use.
Fire up first Mini, configure for MoCA.
Fire up next Mini.
Etc...

and nobody ever calls me back to fix them.

I DID get calls back when Comcast would sweep through and disable MoCA on 'their' router. Which is why I started using the 6782.

It's a bit of a mystery to me why you're getting no VHF/UHF with this setup.

if you plug JUST the antenna and the diplexer in to the Bolt, do you get TV?

Also, can the Minis's connect to the internet with the most recent connection setup?

-KP


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I suspect that there may be a Cable and VHF/UHF 'crash' that's causing the problem.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Later, if you find you'd prefer the BOLT as your MoCA bridge or simply want to configure the BOLT as a MoCA client, you might consider grabbing a different diplexer (e.g.).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> Also, can the Minis's connect to the internet with the most recent connection setup?


Yes.


Chstvaddict said:


> The minis are working with this config, but since Tivo can't see antennae, I can only view recorded shows



It's now just an antenna signal issue, and it would seemingly need to be due to either the diplexer or coax cable in use. So I'm on board with switching to the gateway as the MoCA bridge, eliminating the need for the diplexer and additional cabling.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> OK, but I bet I've installed 2 dozen systems following this diagram:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, if I plug just antenna/diplexer, I get tv but then no mini. Once I plug into the main splitter tho, tv reception goes, and minis work


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Yes.
> ​
> It's now just an antenna signal issue, and it would seemingly need to be due to either the diplexer or coax cable in use. So I'm on board with switching to the gateway as the MoCA bridge, eliminating the need for the diplexer and additional cabling.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

That's what I was afraid of...:

What is the difference between a Diplexer and Duplexer? - everything RF

Both the signals need to be at different frequencies by a significant percentage, so that filters can easily sort them.

Try this:


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

It’s same as when I started and diplexer and plain old splitter gave same results. I’m hesitant to redo everything with modem moca-enabled. Yes, I searched for one able to do it, but never got it to work. Might wait to do all that


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Yes.
> ​
> It's now just an antenna signal issue, and it would seemingly need to be due to either the diplexer or coax cable in use. So I'm on board with switching to the gateway as the MoCA bridge, eliminating the need for the diplexer and additional cabling.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Chstvaddict said:


> It's same as when I started and diplexer and plain old splitter gave same results. I'm hesitant to redo everything with modem moca-enabled. Yes, I searched for one able to do it, but never got it to work. Might wait to do all that


It will be fine...

Follow the same procedures, except set the Bolt up as ethernet.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> It's same as when I started and diplexer and plain old splitter gave same results. I'm hesitant to redo everything with modem moca-enabled. Yes, I searched for one able to do it, but never got it to work. Might wait to do all that


If you're not up for reconfiguring to using the gateway as your MoCA bridge, though it shouldn't be too difficult using the above steps, you may want to try an alternative diplexer.

p.s. For your convenience...


krkaufman said:


> Disable MoCA on the BOLT, reverting it to an Ethernet-only connection;
> Remove the diplexer and connect the BOLT directly to the antenna;
> Verify BOLT antenna reception is acceptable;
> Power off all your Minis;
> ...


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I don't think it can work:

A *Diplexer* is a 3-port passive device that allows two different devices to share a common communication channel. It consists of two filters (Low Pass, High Pass or Band Pass) at different frequencies connected to a single antenna. In the figure below, Signal A at Frequency A enters the Diplexer and passes through Filter A to the antenna. Singal B at frequency B, passes through Filter B to the same antenna. Both the signals need to be at different frequencies by a significant percentage, so that filters can easily sort them.


__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> I don't think it can work:


Diplexers can and do work as detailed, properly installed and functioning; many examples can be found on TCF where they've successfully been used in this way.

As for the frequency ranges, see the following...


krkaufman said:


> *Re: antenna/satellite diplexers *
> 
> Though we're not working with satellite signals, antenna/satellite diplexers can be helpful in some MoCA setup scenarios. The difference maker is that the MoCA technology employed in TiVos uses frequencies up in the satellite range (MoCA "D band") ...
> 
> ...


But it doesn't appear to be working with the specific diplexer on-hand, and switching to the gateway as the MoCA bridge will surely be quicker than waiting for a replacement diplexer to test.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Like it could be working before the end of the day...

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> Like it could be working before the end of the day...


Or early Saturday AM, after a good night's sleep, leaving plenty of time to enjoy the rest of a fine Fall day.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Chstvaddict said:


> Ugh. I have tried everything, bought splitters, antennas, diplexer, and coax. I cut the cord...maybe too soon. I was cruising along fine with cable and moca except for my cable bill. Poe filter outside in cable box.inside the house, splitter with 1 cable to router/modem ( moca enabled) and the other to my bolt. Minis in each bedroom. Can someone please tell me the setup for using ota. If I unplug coax from bolt and replace with ota, the minis don't work. I tried a splitter and a diplexer. I have a Poe filter with antenna, but I've pulled that off and no difference there so not sure I need it. Help!


Wow, this thread is a total mess - almost unbelievable tangled twists and turns to what should have been an absolutely simple change from cable service to OTA. Maybe some key details were left out of the original post, but if not, then maybe the user should just wipe his mind of all this 'duplexer/diplexer/shmiplexer' garbage and start with a fresh look at just how simple this should be:

First of all, the original cable installation worked with MoCA simply because all the devices were connected to the same coax. I don't really care what the exact configuration was, just the fact that it worked is good enough to know.

Next, understand that the reason the Minis stopped working when you tried to remove the coax from the Bolt and connect the antenna is simply because that removed the Bolt from the existing coax. Now the only coax the Bolt is connected to is the antenna, while the Minis are still on the original house coax. That would have been fine if the Minis were connected via wired Ethernet, but MoCA requires all devices that use MoCA to be connected through the SAME COAX.

I do not know what role the MoCA enabled router/modem was playing, but that is immaterial at this point if the Bolt is configured as a MoCA Bridge as has been stated.

Soooo, switching that house from cable to OTA SHOULD have been this simple (after putting everything back in the exact same configuration where it was working fine with cable to start):

Step1. Disconnect the Modem from the rest of the existing house coax, so that the incoming cable goes through the wall and to the modem without being connected to ANY splitters or other devices.. The best way to do this would be to remove that first splitter where you said one leg goes to the Modem and one leg goes to the Bolt; HOWEVER, to do this correctly you need to know where the Minis connect into the coax so that you do not accidentally disconnect them too.

Step 2. Move your POE filter from the external cable box to the coax coming from your antenna.

Step 3. Now connect the coax from your new antenna to the same splitter that you just disconnected from the incoming cable coax. If you removed that splitter, then just use the POE filter or a barrel connector to connect the antenna coax to the house coax, and presto, you are done.

Everything should now be working perfectly if these assumptions are correct:

Your incoming cable is connected ONLY to your modem, and the modem is functioning correctly, and you have internet service (MoCA capability in the modem is now meaningless, since it is not connected to any other coax).

Your Bolt is connected via wired Ethernet to your router so that it has internet access.
Your Bolt is configured as a MoCA Bridge.
You have not accidentally disconnected the Minis from the rest of the coax running throughout the house.
Note that this requires NO new hardware. All you are doing is making sure the cable modem (and incoming cable coax) is not connected to the rest of the house coax, but every TiVo device still is. Since it worked before, you already know that all devices and connections are MoCA compatible.​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

If a diplexer is too complex for you, perhaps ...


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Well, the final conclusion was basically the 'inverse' of that.

Activate MoCA on the Router.
Connect Bolt coax ONLY to antenna.
Connect Bolt Ethernet to MoCA network

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> Well, the final conclusion was basically the 'inverse' of that.


I'd substitute "suggestion" for "conclusion," but any of the three suggestions should work -- though shifting to the gateway as the MoCA bridge ensures a direct antenna connection to the BOLT, and so the best possible antenna signal, and entails the least physical change from the working setup.

A diplexer should have worked and would have been the simplest solution, but why the TV signal was affected, and to what degree, remains a mystery. (My money is on the specific diplexer used.)

The latest suggestion would incur the greatest loss on the antenna signal, and it hasn't fully addressed how the antenna would be connected.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> I'm hesitant to redo everything with modem moca-enabled. Yes, I searched for one able to do it, but never got it to work.


But wasn't your earlier attempt to use the MoCA functionality of the gateway hampered by the BOLT also being configured as a MoCA bridge?

If you start by reconfiguring the BOLT for just an Ethernet connection (turn off MoCA in the BOLT), then the path should be cleared for enabling MoCA on the gateway.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Just to be clear, the BOLT can be connected as an Ethernet client, and the Minis as MoCA clients. A TiVo setup, as officially supported, can be all of one _wired_ connection type or the other, Ethernet or MoCA, or a mix of both.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Ok kind people. Today I try to reconfigure and use the moca enabler on my modem. Can’t take any hits on antenna signal and I can get my $ back on the diplexer! I’m keeping my fingers crossed that the last time I spent 2 days doing it this way...was because of something else I changed during the process. Here goes!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Ha! Good luck.

Though the need for luck is diminished by following a solid plan...


krkaufman said:


> Disable MoCA on the BOLT, reverting it to an Ethernet-only connection;
> Remove the diplexer and connect the BOLT directly to the antenna;
> Verify BOLT antenna reception is acceptable;
> Power off all your Minis;
> ...


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Ugh! Ok I unplugged all the minis first and haven’t looked at those since. Hoping to get things working first in my den.
I might have done things outta order...
I disabled moca on bolt and went with Ethernet
I enabled moca on the router
In terms of connections, I now have the main line coming into den split 2 ways same as before. One goes to router and other is split into antenna and bolt. I think from your last thread this is wrong.
I went back to bolt and chose moca but instead of bridge, I chose client (now I recall that this is what I couldn’t do during initial install). Thought it was awesome that it did allow me to do it..IT REQUIRES ME TO REMOVE ETHERNET HERE FROM BOLT! Are you saying to keep this as Ethernet?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

If you follow the procedures you've been told at least 3 times, you'll do fine:

Activate MoCA on the Router.
Connect Bolt coax ONLY to antenna.
Connect Bolt Ethernet to MoCA network

or:

Activate MoCA on the Router.
Connect Bolt coax ONLY to antenna.
Connect Bolt Ethernet to MoCA network

(that was the same thing...)

or:

KRK wrote this, which is basically the same thing, too:

If you want to switch to this diplexer-less setup:



Disable MoCA on the BOLT, reverting it to an Ethernet-only connection;

Remove the diplexer and connect the BOLT directly to the antenna;

Verify BOLT antenna reception is acceptable;

Power off all your Minis;

Enable the MoCA bridge on the cable gateway;

Power on each Mini, verifying MoCA connectivity for each.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

The specific steps you need to follow are listed in the just previous post:

Bolt, moca,Ota...ugh

You've diverged from the above steps in 2 critical ways:

*BOLT must be connected directly to the antenna.* There shouldn't be any splitter involved and the BOLT should NOT be connected in any way to your cable Internet-linked coax lines.

*BOLT is to be networked solely as an Ethernet client.* MoCA on the BOLT is to be disabled, turned OFF.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

So I take back my comment that you are “kind folks” and glad I’m not a techie like you kpeters.
I only have 3 people telling me what to do and tho you may have told me 3 times, it’s always followed by another post suggesting something different.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Actually, he just told you the same thing again...

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> Actually, he just told you the same thing again...


Please don't insert me into this exchange.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

@Chstvaddict, as a (possible) separate concern from your current effort, the mention of a splitter in the following two posts has me confused and wondering if this splitter wasn't at the root of the issue with the earlier diplexer attempt, as it is definitely a problem for the current plan.

From the diplexer attempt:


Chstvaddict said:


> It's same as when I started and diplexer *and plain old splitter* gave same results.



From the current attempt:


Chstvaddict said:


> In terms of connections, I now have the main line coming into den split 2 ways same as before. One goes to router *and other is split into antenna and bolt. *I think from your last thread this is wrong.


You are definitely correct in this last excerpt that this split going to the BOLT and antenna from the cable provider coax lines is wrong, since this is mixing the cable provider signal with your OTA signal.

For now, stick with the "gateway as MoCA bridge" plan. But connecting the BOLT via coax ONLY to the antenna.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Hook it up like this:










Follow the above start-up procedures.

-KP


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> @Chstvaddict, as a (possible) separate concern from your current effort, the mention of a splitter in the following two posts has me confused and wondering if this splitter wasn't at the root of the issue with the earlier diplexer attempt, as it is definitely a problem for the current plan.
> 
> From the diplexer attempt:
> ​
> ...


Thank you! I followed your steps and it works! There was a lag in my receiving your thread and I jumped in before your steps came through. I think my natural assumption (scary when you don't know what you're doing - just a chic wanting to watch tv for free)..was that the bolt had to either be the moca bridge or the moca client.....I think most of the instructions on the Tivo sites and other sites do not consider that my router is the moca god. Thanks again for your help!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Glad you have it working, and happy to help.

That's a wrap, then, unless you want to tweak the setup. Though I'm going to refrain from posting any tweak tips, since I imagine you've had enough for now, and would just like to enjoy some free TV! 

Enjoy...!


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I'm glad all krkaufman's suggestions worked for you.

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> I'm glad all krkaufman's suggestions worked for you.


Obviously the same suggestions being made by both of us. All's well...


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Obviously the same suggestions being made by both of us. All's well...


Karl,

Do you happen to know whether bridging a Bolt Plus provides Gigabit internet?

I successfully bridge my Bolt+ "feeding" a high speed switch, but I am about to upgrade to FIOS Gigabit soon.

Thanks!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> Do you happen to know whether bridging a Bolt Plus provides Gigabit internet?
> 
> I successfully bridge my Bolt+ "feeding" a high speed switch, but I am about to upgrade to FIOS Gigabit soon.


Not exactly, no.

Ethernet on the 6-tuner Roamios (Plus & Pro) and all BOLTs is Gigabit (1000 Mbps); 4-tuner Roamios (base, OTA) and earlier are FastE (100 Mbps).

As for MoCA, the 6-tuner Roamios and Minis are MoCA 1.1 (up to 170 Mbps), while all BOLTs have standard MoCA 2.0 support (<400 Mbps) -- noting that Minis lack MoCA bridging, and no other TiVo DVRs have *any* built-in MoCA support.

So... even if the BOLT models offer Gigabit Ethernet, if you're leveraging a MoCA-client BOLT to provide a wired network connection to an isolated GigE network switch, the *standard MoCA 2.0 connection *(at best*)* would be the bottleneck, limiting the throughput to <400 Mbps*. (* Of course, the standard MoCA 2.0 rate could only be achieved if the main MoCA bridge at the router supports MoCA 2.0, either standard or extended/bonded.)

As an aside, even a couple extended/bonded MoCA 2.0 devices talking to each other only hit <800 Mbps (putting aside a special configuration). The next iteration of MoCA is supposed to be capable of Gigabit+ speeds, but I don't know if/when we'll see that hardware.

Hope that helps.

edit: Updated MoCA 2.0 data rate limits


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

krkaufman said:


> Not exactly, no.
> 
> Ethernet on the 6-tuner Roamios (Plus & Pro) and all BOLTs is Gigabit (1000 Mbps); 4-tuner Roamios (base, OTA) and earlier are FastE (100 Mbps).
> 
> ...


Perfect explanation as always!

I am thinking, if I went FIOS Gigabit, I would still benefit with a Gigabit Switch. 400+ is better than 100 Mbps

As a networking guru, do you have any suggestions for me for a Gigabit switch?

I am thinking this (Qos, and metal ports):

D-Link DGS-108 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Switch DGS-108 B&H Photo


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> ... do you have any suggestions for me for a Gigabit switch?
> 
> I am thinking this (Qos, and metal ports):
> 
> D-Link DGS-108 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Switch DGS-108 B&H Photo


Honestly, I couldn't provide an informed recommendation. I usually just buy whatever decent brand (Netgear, DLink, TP-Link) Gigabit switch is on sale when I need one.

The only concern I have for the specific switch you posted is the bullet point stating "Power-Saving Features," as I've read posts or heard rumors of people having TiVo connectivity issues with "green" switches. YMMV.

I guess my main recommendation re: a switch is buy one that you can return w/ relative ease and at minimal or no cost -- and be sure to test TiVo Mini connectivity (or MRS) well before the end of your return window.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Glad you have it working, and happy to help.
> 
> That's a wrap, then, unless you want to tweak the setup. Though I'm going to refrain from posting any tweak tips, since I imagine you've had enough for now, and would just like to enjoy some free TV!
> 
> Enjoy...!


I can handle a few tweak tips now that I know at least one way to make it work.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

One aspect of your setup could be tweaked, depending on your preferences. You may not find the benefit worth the effort, but it may be something to keep in the back of your mind, for later.

*Background:* Your current setup has your Minis on coax/MoCA and your BOLT networked via Ethernet. If your router reboots, then any TiVo-to-TiVo content streaming (i.e. viewing live or recorded TV on the Mini) will be interrupted. One benefit of having all your TiVo devices as MoCA clients is that this interruption could be avoided -- though Internet app streaming would, of course, still be disrupted.

*Possible Tweak:* So, you *could* switch your BOLT from an Ethernet connection to a MoCA client connection, keeping the gateway as your main MoCA bridge, but it would require the previously tried (and failed) diplexer solution to get both the antenna and MoCA signals to the BOLT. And the BOLT Ethernet port would need to be disconnected/empty.

Though it remains uncertain whether the earlier failure was due to a bad diplexer, an incorrect arrangement of the diplexer and splitter(s), or a borderline antenna signal. I'd stick with what you have if the antenna signal is borderline, and I'd recommend getting a different diplexer model (e.g.) in-hand, were you to attempt the change.


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## jeffl.ors (Oct 14, 2017)

Chstvaddict said:


> Ugh. I have tried everything, bought splitters, antennas, diplexer, and coax. I cut the cord...maybe too soon. I was cruising along fine with cable and moca except for my cable bill. Poe filter outside in cable box.inside the house, splitter with 1 cable to router/modem ( moca enabled) and the other to my bolt. Minis in each bedroom. Can someone please tell me the setup for using ota. If I unplug coax from bolt and replace with ota, the minis don't work. I tried a splitter and a diplexer. I have a Poe filter with antenna, but I've pulled that off and no difference there so not sure I need it. Help!


You CANNOT combine cable signal and OTA signal. You need to run the cable from your internet provider directly to your modem. All Minis and the Bolt need to be on the same splitter with the MoCA filter on the "In" port from the antenna. Then you need to run an Ethernet cord from your router to your Bolt and create a MoCA network on your Bolt as a the Bridge. If it's not possible to plug an ethernet cord from your router to your Bolt then you will need a Tivo Bridge MoCA adapter. One leg (coax) of the antenna splitter will go to the MoCA Bridge and then ethernet from your router to the Bridge. You CANNOT dyplex cable and OTA signal.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Already solved.

That said, experience counters your statement re: use of a diplexer, properly employed, for a hybrid OTA/cable Internet/MoCA setup (earlier post)


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> One aspect of your setup could be tweaked, depending on your preferences. You may not find the benefit worth the effort, but it may be something to keep in the back of your mind, for later.
> 
> *Background:* Your current setup has your Minis on coax/MoCA and your BOLT networked via Ethernet. If your router reboots, then any TiVo-to-TiVo content streaming (i.e. viewing live or recorded TV on the Mini) will be interrupted. One benefit of having all your TiVo devices as MoCA clients is that this interruption could be avoided -- though Internet app streaming would, of course, still be disrupted.
> 
> ...


Let me ask you this: Is there any kind of quality difference between using the Bolt as my moca bridge vs using this Arris modem? If I recall, when I ordered this particular modem I thought the "moca enabled" was a requirement, but it obviously isn't. And I'm pretty sure there were "newer and better" modems on the market that are not "moca enabled". If I were to upgrade my modem (and I'm not going to do that in the very near future), I would definitely want to set the Bolt back as the bridge.


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## Chstvaddict (Oct 19, 2017)

Just an update : I bought the diplexer you suggested and it works with minis and bolt as moca client. Thank you.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Chstvaddict said:


> Just an update : I bought the diplexer you suggested and it works with minis and bolt as moca client.


Great to hear; and thanks for the feedback. It sounds like a good deal of suffering might have been avoided with a different diplexer at the outset; however, it's probably good that the issue allowed you to work through getting your new gateway setup as the MoCA bridge.



Chstvaddict said:


> Is there any kind of quality difference between using the Bolt as my moca bridge vs using this Arris modem? If I recall, when I ordered this particular modem I thought the "moca enabled" was a requirement, but it obviously isn't. And I'm pretty sure there were "newer and better" modems on the market that are not "moca enabled". If I were to upgrade my modem (and I'm not going to do that in the very near future), I would definitely want to set the Bolt back as the bridge.


It can just be a matter of preference. I prefer to use either a MoCA-capable gateway or a standalone MoCA adapter as my main MoCA bridge, primarily because the TiVo DVRs seem to require more reboots or resets than either of the other options, with any MoCA bridge downtime breaking the Internet connection for all MoCA client devices. Using a standalone MoCA adapter provides the greatest flexibility in terms of router selection and mapping the MoCA bridge spec to that of the MoCA clients. On the other hand, using the TiVo DVR as the MoCA bridge can simplify setup, reducing hardware clutter, and can keep costs down, MoCA adapters remaining a fairly steep expense.


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