# CANCELL HR21 Install



## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

I called a couple weeks ago to upgrade from my HR10-250, to the HR20. Made it clear to DTV rep that i need an OTA solution. She noted it on my order.

I even called the local installer and left a message on my work order that a "HR20" is the only acceptable receiver. (I followed the thread of the other forum step by step)

The local installed just called and said he doesn't have any HR20, and he hadent had any for 6 months. Said I needed to buy a external tuner.

I know the HR21 has a "magical" USB tuner, but who knows when that will be out. I need OTA now.

I plan to call DTV retention and raise cain with them..

What are my options? I might as well cancel my HD package as its not cost effective to keep if for only a couple channels. 

Comast here I come...

JM


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## Indiana627 (Jan 24, 2003)

I've heard the HR21's external OTA tuner will be available before March 1, 2008.


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## Mavrick22 (Feb 7, 2006)

jmorgis said:


> I called a couple weeks ago to upgrade from my HR10-250, to the HR20. Made it clear to DTV rep that i need an OTA solution. She noted it on my order.
> 
> I even called the local installer and left a message on my work order that a "HR20" is the only acceptable receiver. (I followed the thread of the other forum step by step)
> 
> ...


Every thing that I have read on other boards state the the USB OTA tuner for the HR21 is supposed to be released sometimes around the first of march of this year as a result I went ahead and took my HR21 upgrade since it was my only option and Directv let me keep my HR10-250 active so that I am able to record my OTA programs until the OTA solution for the HR21 is released. My HDTV also has a built in tuner so I can watch my OTA though that Live if needed.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

Im speechless. I just got off the phone with "retention", Max said the HR20 will NOT record OTA..!!!! OMG!!! 

So Im left with NO directv solution to record OTA other than my current HR10-250.. 

I canceled todays install, and also canceled my HD package, as its nuts paying $12 / month for a couple channels. 

Im calling comast to see what they will offer me...



I asked him why some large electronics retailers sell the HR20, and they cant get any???????? 

He then replied that I can go BUY one, then call him back to see IF they can do anything to help with the price. YA RIGHT!

What a mess..

John


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

The HR20 will most certainly record OTA.

And which "large retailers" are selling the HR20?
As for the most part... all HR20's were recalled by DirecTV, so they can provide exact model swaps for people that need replacements.

And yes.. the only way to guaratee you an HR20 today... if you absolutely must have an HR20... is to buy one, and have DirecTV credit you.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> The HR20 will most certainly record OTA.
> 
> And which "large retailers" are selling the HR20?
> As for the most part... all HR20's were recalled by DirecTV, so they can provide exact model swaps for people that need replacements.
> ...


I was fully aware that the HR20 will record OTA, it just pushed me over the edge when Max told the it wouldn't. Thanks Earl.

I can get one on Amazon, for $169. But its absurd that I need to go out of my way to get one. When someone in DTV im sure can send me one. What do they do when a existing customer who has a HR20 box dies? and they need OTA? (do they send him a HR21 and Pi$$ him off?)

And yes i absolutely NEED a receiver with OTA. ! NOW now not in the spring.

So my choices are as follows...

#1 Scrap all Directv service, sell everything on Ebay and go Comast w/ TivoSeries 3
#2 Stay on my HR10-250 and wait until the external USB tuner is shipping for the HR21. (then go through the whole process again)
#3 Purchase a HR20 on my own with my own $$, and go through the setup process to upgrade my dish/multiswitch again. And hopefully DTV refund the price. (this seams like a hassle)


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## Pictor Guy (Apr 6, 2003)

jmorgis said:


> #1 Scrap all Directv service, sell everything on Ebay and go Comast w/ TivoSeries 3


Call Comcast and see what promos they're offering. I know they're running some good deals in my area. Also why not consider the TiVo HD and if you need more space take the saved money and get a USB HD? Also for the next few days (until Jan 19) Best Buy is giving back a $50 gift card for each TiVo purchased which may help offset the cost.


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> The HR20 will most certainly record OTA.
> 
> And which "large retailers" are selling the HR20?
> As for the most part... all HR20's were recalled by DirecTV, so they can provide exact model swaps for people that need replacements.
> ...


Earl, I went through the same process as Jmorgis and refused installation last Friday because the installer showed up with 2 HR21s. Where one of my HR10-250s is installed there just isn't room to add an additional 1 inch box, so I at least want one HR20. The installer wouldn't leave just one box so he left.

I spent a total of 4 hours on the phone with D* and talked to 5 different departments including retention after the installer left. I told them all I had found HR20s locally and asked if they would send the installer back out to install the dish and multiswitch. I would purchase and install the HR20s if they would credit my account. They all said no. It disturbs me that I know more about D* products than anyone I talked to in 4 hours of phone conversation.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

bpratt said:


> Earl, I went through the same process as Jmorgis and refused installation last Friday because the installer showed up with 2 HR21s. Where one of my HR10-250s is installed there just isn't room to add an additional 1 inch box, so I at least want one HR20. The installer wouldn't leave just one box so he left.
> 
> I spent a total of 4 hours on the phone with D* and talked to 5 different departments including retention after the installer left. I told them all I had found HR20s locally and asked if they would send the installer back out to install the dish and multiswitch. I would purchase and install the HR20s if they would credit my account. They all said no. It disturbs me that I know more about D* products than anyone I talked to in 4 hours of phone conversation.


Exactly, thats is why Im talking to Comast now...After being a Diretv customer since late 1994.. !!

Looks like a HD Tivo + Comcast is the answer. They are offering a $200 cash back deal now to switch. That will almost pay for the HD Tivo.

JM


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

The only "official" way to get an HR20 now from D* is if you don't have access to HD Locals from the satellite. Any other attempt will more then likely result in an HR21. THEN the procedure is to take the HR21 install and call back to escalate the issue stating you don't have access to satellite HD locals. At THAT point they have a procedure to get you an HR20 (which will probably be reconditioned). This information comes from their subscriber system and of course, as with everything DTV, your mileage may vary ... but that is their procedure.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

I wonder how much money DTV saved by not including the OTA tuner in the HR21? I wonder if it was worth all of this mess, and the eventual demand for the "add-on" OTA tuner hardware for the HR21. Seems they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by just asking their customers what they wanted. But then again, why do that? They might hear that their customers still want TiVo.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

I understand that some of you absolutely want to have OTA Today...
And the only option for that, today... is the HR20.

The problem is... most (the vast majority) of the HR20's are being held by DirecTV for model->model replacements... aka those that have an HR20 but need it replaced, will get an HR20.

Also, they are trying as best they can to ensure that those upgrading from an HR10-250, get an HR20... but even that is not as perfect as they want it to be.

I understand the hesitation on getting the HR21, with the uncertaintity of the AM21.
However, the AM21 is not comming in years... it is there... it is a viable product... just hasn't been released yet....

I have heard and seen dates as soon as the end of February/Early March as the timeframe for it... but none of those are set in stone.

So yes... it is still an unknown...

So at this point...
If you absolutely must have an HR20... then you are going to hvae to scout one out on your own, and then work with DirecTV.

bprott... if you don't have that extra 1inch... then don't know what to tell you.
As soon as the AM21 is certified as a launch product, and has a definitive date..

Production of the HR20-100 will completely cease... it has already been ramped down to a very low rate. (The HR20-700 ceased production about 4 months ago)

That is the state of things...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

20TIL6 said:


> I wonder how much money DTV saved by not including the OTA tuner in the HR21? I wonder if it was worth all of this mess, and the eventual demand for the "add-on" OTA tuner hardware for the HR21. Seems they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by just asking their customers what they wanted. But then again, why do that? They might hear that their customers still want TiVo.


~$50 per unit.

And the "mess" is not as large as you may think it is...
Compared to the entire population of the HR21 installation base, and the number of people that are venting about the issue...
Not a very large percentage.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> I understand that some of you absolutely want to have OTA Today...
> And the only option for that, today... is the HR20.
> 
> The problem is... most (the vast majority) of the HR20's are being held by DirecTV for model->model replacements... aka those that have an HR20 but need it replaced, will get an HR20.
> ...


So when a long time customer with a box they I paid $999 for calls and asked specifically for a HR20 because he must have OTA. They cant work with them.

That is why im very upset. I know they have them...They choose to hang me out to dry, LIE, and say they dont have them. This will push me to Comcast.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

> So at this point...
> If you absolutely must have an HR20... then you are going to hvae to scout one out on your own, and then work with DirecTV.


Why must I as a customer work to keep the relationship with any company??? Shouldn't the company want to try to keep me as a customer, and do what is right to keep me happy?

How much is my time worth, hunting down a HR20, calling Directv again and haggle about the cost of the box? This is BS!

Isnt this backwards?

If they want to keep me as a customer, *they *are going to pony up.! NOT ME!

JM


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

jmorgis said:


> So when a long time customer with a box they I paid $999 for calls and asked specifically for a HR20 because he must have OTA. They cant work with them.
> 
> That is why im very upset. I know they have them...They choose to hang me out to dry, LIE, and say they dont have them. This will push me to Comcast.


You are not the only one that has spent $1000 on the unit.... a lot of has..
That is the nature of the technology.

At the end of the day... they honestly dont' know if you paid $1000 for it or $50 for it (Which I just ultimately sold my HR10-250).

As for them having them... as I just explained in my last post.
The units they have are reserved for specific scenerio... plain and simple.

When the HR21 was first announced, there was plenty of HR20's... now there isn't...

So... as the story goes... you waited to long... and now this is the facts of today... and you have to deal with what the situation is today.

If you are not satisified with it...... then yes... COMCAST may be the option for you.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

jmorgis said:


> Why must I as a customer work to keep the relationship with any company??? Shouldn't the company want to try to keep me as a customer, and do what is right to keep me happy?
> 
> How much is my time worth, hunting down a HR20, calling Directv again and haggle about the cost of the box? This is BS!
> 
> ...


Honestly... be you are one of 17 million customers.

And DirecTV isn't going to be bending over backwards to keep any one individual customer.

As I said in my last post.

The HR20 was readily available for over a year... now it is not..
The HR21 is the primarly installed system...


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

This seems to me to be another indication of poor planning. They cut down on HR20's knowing that the HR21 has no OTA, and upset folks in the meantime when they are wanting OTA.

They know how many HR10's are out there. If they truly want to hold an HR20 for the majority of those HR10's, why not record where the HR10's in active service are today and then hold an HR20 for them? Then send the HR20 to the customer just before the installer shows up.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> This seems to me to be another indication of poor planning. They cut down on HR20's knowing that the HR21 has no OTA, and upset folks in the meantime when they are wanting OTA.
> 
> They know how many HR10's are out there. If they truly want to hold an HR20 for the majority of those HR10's, why not record where the HR10's in active service are today and then hold an HR20 for them? Then send the HR20 to the customer just before the installer shows up.


So?

The HR20 was out there for over a year.... sorry that those that didn't upgrade during that first year, now are in this situation...

But given that the vast majority of customers couldn't care a bit about ATSC or OTA... the HR21 is fitting the bill for the larger majority, while the smaller portion... has to wait or is upset... well.. there is no perfect solution to it.

How long do they hold onto the HR20's for those with HR10-250s? 
Given that there have been offers out there for the free updates for those users since last year......

They are not going to wait for ever, and they didn't.

The situation is what it is.
It was never going to be perfect... 
There was never going to be combination of events that made everyone happy...

How many people have gone from an HR10-250... and are now using SAT HD-LiL's ? How do you predict the correct numbers?

You can also argue it was poor planning on the part of customers.... those that waited to upgrade... waited to upgraded and waited to upgrade.
There was never a guarantee that OTA was going to remain there for ever... especially after 6+ months ago when the H21 was introduced... and then the HR21 without ATSC. Should have raised a flag.


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## pmturcotte (May 7, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> And DirecTV isn't going to be bending over backwards to keep any one individual customer.


Wow, you can say that again. I've never been more stunned at the complete inadequacy and incompetence of a customer service staff as I have been in my dealings with DirecTv over the past 4 weeks. I mean, its been bad before, but holy crap. I've been a good customer for 8 years with all the premium crap and the NFL/MLB/NBA and sometimes NHL packages. Honestly, they could care less when you call. Each person you talk to doesn't seem to know what a particular box does or they will just pass you off to someone else who tells you something different. It took me a month to get my HD channels added back without paying and that was only after talking to my 3rd retention operator in one call and having to explain to each one the difference between MPEG2 and MPEG4.

And I say this as someone who actually LIKES DirecTv and will still update to the newest receiver this year and for some reason I will keep dealing with it. I've already made two calls about getting an HR20 and got tired of hearing the dumb excuses and complete lack of knowledge - IE "The boxes are the same." I mean, I'm not going to apologize for the fact that the previous owner of my house left a beautiful rooftop antenna installed that pulls in perfect signals and I still want to use it. Chances are I will probably end up buying the HR20 on my own.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

jmorgis said:


> #1 Scrap all Directv service, sell everything on Ebay and go Comast w/ TivoSeries 3
> #2 Stay on my HR10-250 and wait until the external USB tuner is shipping for the HR21. (then go through the whole process again)
> #3 Purchase a HR20 on my own with my own $$, and go through the setup process to upgrade my dish/multiswitch again. And hopefully DTV refund the price. (this seams like a hassle)


Option #4: 
Take the HR21 and free dish/upgrade and keep the HR10-250 active.
You can keep the HR10 going for OTA and whatnot while you wait a couple months for the OTA add-on to the HR21. Once you get the OTA addon then you can decide if you want to keep the HR10 for 2 extra tuners OTA and SD or deactivate it and save $5 a month.

This sounds like the soundest idea. Assuming you don't want to go to Comcast that is.


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## sbelmont (Jul 5, 2004)

incog-neato said:


> The only "official" way to get an HR20 now from D* is if you don't have access to HD Locals from the satellite. Any other attempt will more then likely result in an HR21. THEN the procedure is to take the HR21 install and call back to escalate the issue stating you don't have access to satellite HD locals. At THAT point they have a procedure to get you an HR20 (which will probably be reconditioned). This information comes from their subscriber system and of course, as with everything DTV, your mileage may vary ... but that is their procedure.


Wrong, they even routed me to an "equipment specalist" and they were unable to guarantee me an HR20. Said they did not have a way in the system anymore to guarantee what the warehouse shipped out. Their current option is to "try and get me waivers" from my local's. Not going to happen. So I'm taking their HR21's and I bought an HR20.

So then the installer showed up without the dish. A huge waste of my time. I am currently waiting for the installer again. I called to verify that the dish was on the work order, and it wasn't again, many more phone calls and hopefully he will show up soon with the dish.

If my company treated it's customers this way we would be losing them left and right. When we bring out a new item and it doesn't "fit" the market we make adjustments.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

Update...

Im going to move forward with the HR21 install. Directv said they will give me free locals because of the lack of HR21 functionality. 

This should get me some time until the AM21 comes out..Then I will have an option for Off-Air then...

This entire process took all morning talking now to 3 reps. and about 3 hours of my day + their time + installers time...

All to save $50 (as per Earl) cost savings for not putting the tuner in the HR21? I easily wasted that..

All because they cannot furnish a HR20...

JM


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

"FREE LOCALS" ? Since when do we pay for locals?


jmorgis said:


> Update...
> 
> Im going to move forward with the HR21 install. Directv said they will give me free locals because of the lack of HR21 functionality.
> JM


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

incog-neato said:


> "FREE LOCALS" ? Since when do we pay for locals?


Well with my HR10-250 I didnt get them with my current package, it was a line item for an additional $5

They added it my package, then credited me $5 / month

John


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> So?
> 
> The HR20 was out there for over a year.... sorry that those that didn't upgrade during that first year, now are in this situation...
> 
> ...


Me thinkest you speaked with forked tongue. 

On the one hand you say:



> Also, they are trying as best they can to ensure that those upgrading from an HR10-250, get an HR20... but even that is not as perfect as they want it to be.


On the other hand you are saying:


> The HR20 was out there for over a year.... sorry that those that didn't upgrade during that first year, now are in this situation...


Which is it... do they care or don't they? It's okay, don't answer... we already know what the truth is

If D* cares as you claimed and did any amount of planning as you claim, they would have found out how many DTivo users were using OTA and made sure they had enough backlog for what they thought were going to convert.

But, it seems now your saying it's the customers fault, because they didn't sign up for the POS dvr a year ago... too bad, so sad!! And my guess it that that is really how they feel.

Let's see, they are now offering a free dvr to CA, TX, and some sport packages, but everyone else should have known that D* had a free upgrade, even though they didn't send any notice to the rest of us? Yeah, right


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

What part of:

They are trying to get HR20's to those that are upgrading to HR10-250's...
But it is not a guarantee, and the process isn't perfect...

Is hard to understand?


They did a tremendeous amount more planning that you are willing to admit they did..
Actually...... the number of HR10-250 ATSC users would be significantly skewed... since the unit, could not account for SAT based HD LiL.

And actually... yes... the customers who had a older technology... 
When the announements that they will depreciated (loss of HD)... Who did not upgrade yet... made an assumption on the future hardware. 
And that assumption (if they were counting on ATSC being there), was wrong.

And yes... this is no mystery... very well publicized that the new HD was comming.
The information has been available for almost 3 years now. and over the last year, even more so... and in the last 6 months... very difficult to avoid.
So while there will still be a percentage of people that didn't know.... the vast majority of user know about the changes in store.

So this is EXACTLY the situation as it is.

The HR20 with built in ATSC, is in extremely limited quanties.
The AM21 has been announced as the ATSC add-on box to the HR21.

That is the situation as it is today... you have the facts to make your decision on what you want today... and for at least the next few months.

Oh... and should we dig up all the articles when DirecTV did come out and tell those with older equipment that they had upgrade offers... the ones that were linked here, and that were published in multiple publications...

Or are we going to forget about those...


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

> Let's see, they are now offering a free dvr to CA, TX, and some sport packages, but everyone else should have known that D* had a free upgrade, even though they didn't send any notice to the rest of us? Yeah, right


Free??? Im still paying handling fee. And if they are Trying to provide a HR20 to us folks that have HR10's, i would hate to see that NOT trying looks like..

Nobody that I spoke with tried to get me a HR20..PERIOD


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

incog-neato said:


> "FREE LOCALS" ? Since when do we pay for locals?


It is hidden in the cost of the package. I have a package you can not get any more and I do not pay for locals. I think it is around $4/month.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

From where I sit and what I see and what I read they REALLY are not trying very hard (unless the customer has no access to SAT HD locals).


ebonovic said:


> What part of:
> 
> They are trying to get HR20's to those that are upgrading to HR10-250's...
> But it is not a guarantee, and the process isn't perfect...
> ...


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## Texceo (Mar 11, 2003)

I dont understand what all the Drama here is about. I get my locals via the reciver in HD. Doesnt everyone else? So why would you need an OTA?

Also i have 4 HR20's i would gladly exchange with someone for a HR21 for a nominal fee.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

DirecTV does not permit swapping leased receivers between customers. As soon as it is removed from your account it must be returned to them. If both of you have owned boxes you might be able to pull it off but if they are owned then reactivated they will become leased and you'll have to deal with that issue.


Texceo said:


> I dont understand what all the Drama here is about. I get my locals via the reciver in HD. Doesnt everyone else? So why would you need an OTA?
> 
> Also i have 4 HR20's i would gladly exchange with someone for a HR21 for a nominal fee.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

incog-neato said:


> "FREE LOCALS" ? Since when do we pay for locals?


I'm guessing he has a waaaay old package, and grandfathered, that didn't include locals. I believe it was 2005 when they rolled locals into all the packages and they were no longer an additional cost, just a part of the package you get. And if they don't carry your locals at all you can get a discount on the package.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

jmorgis said:


> I plan to call DTV retention and raise cain with them..
> 
> What are my options? I might as well cancel my HD package as its not cost effective to keep if for only a couple channels.
> 
> Comast here I come...


I agree with you, it sucks that DirecTV did this without thinking it through. Luckily, it appears they've seen the error in their ways and developed the AM21.

But as much as you think DirecTV sucks, Comcast sucks WORSE.

Your choices are:

1) A REALLY crappy DVR, with no OTA.
2) A standalone TiVo HD, which won't get on-demand or PPV, and will cause you a HUGE amount of grief to get cablecards installed. Even then, it currently won't work with any SDV channels until a dongle is available. And who knows what kind of headache that will be. All to get way less HD than DirecTV.

If I were you I'd pick up a cheap HR10 on ebay, activate it, use it for OTA, and sell it when the OTA tuner comes out.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

#1) Everyone in the US doesn't get HD locals by sat.
#2) I use OTA and get around 16 HD locals (including sub-channels) where D* only provides me with the 4 major networks. If I had a better antenna I could get 30+ local HD channels from 4 markets.



Texceo said:


> I dont understand what all the Drama here is about. I get my locals via the reciver in HD. Doesnt everyone else? So why would you need an OTA?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm aware of the older packages, I though he was using a curent package. You can no longer opt out of locals.


rminsk said:


> It is hidden in the cost of the package. I have a package you can not get any more and I do not pay for locals. I think it is around $4/month.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

incog-neato said:


> If both of you have owned boxes you might be able to pull it off but if they are owned then reactivated they will become leased and you'll have to deal with that issue.


Not without a cash payment to me for the equipment. If I own it I own it pure and simple. DirecTV can't claim it for nothing.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Can't do that. If you have any HD equipment the HD package can't be removed. You used to be able to, but no more. It's now "HD ACCESS" and you have to take it.


jmorgis said:


> What are my options? I might as well cancel my HD package as its not cost effective to keep if for only a couple channels.
> 
> Comast here I come...
> 
> JM


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

As I said: They WILL list it as leased and YOU will have to deal with it to get it changed. I didn't say you could NOT get it changed.


Jon J said:


> Not without a cash payment to me for the equipment. If I own it I own it pure and simple. DirecTV can't claim it for nothing.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> What part of:
> 
> They are trying to get HR20's to those that are upgrading to HR10-250's...
> But it is not a guarantee, and the process isn't perfect...
> ...


Yes, do dig them out. I've never received an email or telephone call telling me I qualified for a free upgrade, yet I own an HR10-250. How many more folks like me are out there? In fact, I read the investor call report that showed they were slowing down the upgrades. So, I believe there are probably plenty of other HR10-250 customers who have never gotten any email, message on the Tivo, and/or call from D* telling us there was a free upgrade.

And, just exactly what is the 'free' upgrade? Do, I have to sign up for a 2-year commitment? What happens if I want out? Then that isn't exactly free now is it? Or what happens if I need the H21 OTA gizmo - who pays for that? If they are taking my hr10-250, are they going to give me the $50 for it? Free to most clients would mean, you keep what you own, and we'll pay the rest.


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

RS4 said:


> Yes, do dig them out. I've never received an email or telephone call telling me I qualified for a free upgrade, yet I own an HR10-250. How many more folks like me are out there? In fact, I read the investor call report that showed they were slowing down the upgrades. So, I believe there are probably plenty of other HR10-250 customers who have never gotten any email, message on the Tivo, and/or call from D* telling us there was a free upgrade.
> 
> And, just exactly what is the 'free' upgrade? Do, I have to sign up for a 2-year commitment? What happens if I want out? Then that isn't exactly free now is it? Or what happens if I need the H21 OTA gizmo - who pays for that? If they are taking my hr10-250, are they going to give me the $50 for it? Free to most clients would mean, you keep what you own, and we'll pay the rest.


Don't most free equipment offers come with a service or program committment these days?

As it has been mentioned before, does Sony or Mitsubishi UPGRADE your TV whenever a new technology comes along?

If you want the latest DTV has to offer, you need the HR2x series DVR.

If you want the lastest Tivo-Based DVR, you need cable. No amount of post on this board or the other forum will change that. The only thinh you will accomplish is the raising of your post total.

I see what you are saying, you just keep saying over and over in various threads.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

shibby191 said:


> I'm guessing he has a waaaay old package, and grandfathered, that didn't include locals. I believe it was 2005 when they rolled locals into all the packages and they were no longer an additional cost, just a part of the package you get. And if they don't carry your locals at all you can get a discount on the package.


The TotalChoice package had an unadvertised package that did not have locals. If I remember TotalChoice was offered in early 2007. The local prices are hidden in the cost and I think you can still get them removed from any package.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

Texceo said:


> I dont understand what all the Drama here is about. I get my locals via the reciver in HD. Doesnt everyone else? So why would you need an OTA?
> 
> Also i have 4 HR20's i would gladly exchange with someone for a HR21 for a nominal fee.


That one's easy. Because they were FREE!!! Your paying for them... Why would anyone want to pay for something when they can get them all from OTA at no cost. I wont even mention in my city, Directv doesn't even cary all the local channels, so with an antenna I got like 7 more OTA channels. ALL FOR FREE


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> Yes, do dig them out. I've never received an email or telephone call telling me I qualified for a free upgrade, yet I own an HR10-250. How many more folks like me are out there? In fact, I read the investor call report that showed they were slowing down the upgrades. So, I believe there are probably plenty of other HR10-250 customers who have never gotten any email, message on the Tivo, and/or call from D* telling us there was a free upgrade.


You probably never did get an email or a phone call... as that is part of their notification process now.

But the previous offers... were discussed here and many other places as well.



RS4 said:


> And, just exactly what is the 'free' upgrade? Do, I have to sign up for a 2-year commitment? What happens if I want out? Then that isn't exactly free now is it? Or what happens if I need the H21 OTA gizmo - who pays for that? If they are taking my hr10-250, are they going to give me the $50 for it? Free to most clients would mean, you keep what you own, and we'll pay the rest.


You know the answer to all of those questions...

Yes- You will sign up for 2 year commitment
Yes- You will pay a cancel fee
Yes- You will pay for the AM21
Nope They are giving you $199 off the price of the HR21.

Guess we know what you will be doing...


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

Texceo said:


> I dont understand what all the Drama here is about. I get my locals via the reciver in HD. Doesnt everyone else? So why would you need an OTA?
> 
> Also i have 4 HR20's i would gladly exchange with someone for a HR21 for a nominal fee.


And one other reason is: In the last couple of weeks snow storms with winds out of the South have coated my dish with snow causing the satellite signal to be lost for 12 or more hours each time. The dish is too high on the roof to clean off. I have never lost the OTA signals.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

So... as I pointed out...

You will have an OTA option with the HR21... so if you want to wait for it to be a tangible, shipping device... till you get your unit.

Cancel your upgrades... and wait to see what the deals will be like then.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

incog-neato said:


> As I said: They WILL list it as leased and YOU will have to deal with it to get it changed. I didn't say you could NOT get it changed.


You didn't mention changing anything. You made the statement that owned equipment would be turned into leased. I disputed that unequivocal statement.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I said: If both of you have owned boxes you might be able to pull it off but if they are owned then reactivated they will become leased and you'll (you'll= YOU WILL) have to deal with that issue.

It WILL become leased and YOU (generic "you" meaning "the person activating it.") WILL have to deal with the issue. I won't have to deal with it. Never said they won't change it or will change it ... as I don't deal with those issues here. Just that it will have to be dealt with by the one who activated it. Dealing with it means getting it changed. If you want to argue semantics, fine.


Jon J said:


> You didn't mention changing anything. You made the statement that owned equipment would be turned into leased. I disputed that unequivocal statement.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

bpratt said:


> And one other reason is: In the last couple of weeks snow storms with winds out of the South have coated my dish with snow causing the satellite signal to be lost for 12 or more hours each time. The dish is too high on the roof to clean off. I have never lost the OTA signals.


This is why I have always mounted the dish in a location that can be reached to be able to clear off the snow when needed. I realize that not everyone has that option. But, they do make dish heaters.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

jmorgis said:


> That one's easy. Because they were FREE!!! Your paying for them... Why would anyone want to pay for something when they can get them all from OTA at no cost. I wont even mention in my city, Directv doesn't even cary all the local channels, so with an antenna I got like 7 more OTA channels. ALL FOR FREE


I must also add, the quality of the picture from OTA is much better then the same channel from directv. As with OTA, the is no extra compression/downsizing that occurs with satellite retransmitting.

Oh, and did I mention its also FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

jmorgis, you went to a lot of trouble to get rid of your HR10 and get a HR2x. Just hope you are one of the people who find the HR21 to be an upgrade. Otherwise, the adventure has just begun.


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## jmorgis (Jul 21, 2004)

coachO said:


> jmorgis, you went to a lot of trouble to get rid of your HR10 and get a HR2x. Just hope you are one of the people who find the HR21 to be an upgrade. Otherwise, the adventure has just begun.


Agreed, but what other choice do we have, the HR10 technology is being left behind. Either we go to Comast or be forced to go to HR21...

I really hope the HR2x wont suck, I know its not my Tivo, as we love the Tivo GUI, but I also want the new HD channels.

It like what the other guy said in an above post, trying to choose between 2 evils, and hopefully pick the one that sucks the least.....Hopefully

We will see. I knew today was going to be a BAD  day


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## bpratt (Nov 20, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> This is why I have always mounted the dish in a location that can be reached to be able to clear off the snow when needed. I realize that not everyone has that option. But, they do make dish heaters.


I don't have a choice. Too many tall trees south of my house. Installation of the 5LNB dish is scheduled in about 10 days. I think I'll look into a heater after the new dish is up. Oh wait, spring is just around the corner - maybe I can put it off for several months.


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## richierich (Jul 10, 2002)

coachO said:


> jmorgis, you went to a lot of trouble to get rid of your HR10 and get a HR2x. Just hope you are one of the people who find the HR21 to be an upgrade. Otherwise, the adventure has just begun.


Why would anyone get rid of their HR10-250 even if they are getting an HR20 or HR21? I am getting an HR20 tomorrow installed but I am keeping my two HR10-250s to record OTA (better PQ than D* HD Local PQ) and stuff on ESPN, ESPN2, HDNET, UHD, DISC, etc. which is 95% of my recordings.

I will use the HR20 to record the other HD material I don't get with the HR10-250s such as the Weather Channel, CNN, the Golf Channel, etc. So I will have the best of both worlds and also have a backup system if one of the satellite dishes fails to give me a signal or I can always watch OTA and with the HR20 I can add a 1TB Sata Hard Drive and have plenty of recording space along with the 1.5TB on one of my HR10-250s and 600gig on the other one.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

incog-neato said:


> If you want to argue semantics, fine.


You mean...actually writing in clear language what you intend to say? Heaven forbid.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

Breakfast or lunch would be OK.


Jon J said:


> You mean...actually writing in clear language what you intend to say? Heaven forbid.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

richierich said:


> Why would anyone get rid of their HR10-250 even if they are getting an HR20 or HR21?


It's amazing to me watching people rag on how crappy the HR20/21 is and how great the HR10 was.

The HR10 isn't all peaches and cream... I canceled DirecTV because of my HR10. They sold it to me, shortly after I found out that HD-LIL launched in Denver but wasn't going to be supported on the HR10 (which was their only DVR at the time).

3.x was insanely slow. You had to C&DE every so often just to make it barely functional. It took literally 30 seconds for the guide to come up, and forget resorting season passes. I literally had to keep a SD DirecTiVo right on top of it and only use it for HD because the SD TiVo's were SO much faster.

After waiting FOREVER for the HR10 to 'catch up' to the SD counterparts with 6.x, they launched my TiVo into a worthless piece of crap. People here complain about the HR20/21? How about audio pops and cut-outs throughout your FAVORITE SHOWS. The audio issues in 6.x were a nightmare, they ended up pulling the plug for awhile, then every update after caused other problems.

Oh and don't get me started on HDMI failures....


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

Jon J said:


> You mean...actually writing in clear language what you intend to say? Heaven forbid.


I think he is only trying to help you by preparing you for one of DirecTV's "tricks of the trade." DirecTV will classify your newly aquired and fully paid for DirecTivo as "leased" once it is reactivated under another account. Period. It is one of their intentional glitches, used to force customers into maintaining service with them. Notice I said "classified" as a leased which means they will assume it is leased and record it in their computer that way. Since they are a giant corporation and you can't walk over to their business to straighten things out, with physical force and a punch in the face, if necessary. You are therefore left with the only option which is to waste your time contacting them to pursuade them to re-classify the receiver as "owned" and they may or may not do it. What happeen if you don't agree and cancel your account? Here is the sequence of events: (1) you cancel your account out of spite for their unethical behavior (2) DirecTV then charges you a cancelation fee and requires you to return the "leased" equipment (3) You flip them off and don't pay (that is if theydon't have your CC number on file and charge you behind your back) and keep your "leased" equipment (4) they report you to a collection agent for nonpayment (5) you flip them off again and don't pay (6) they report you to equifax, et al, and your credit is trashed for 7 years. (8) You were just royally screwed.

So don't beat up the messenger - he was only trying to warn you that dealing with DirecTV is risky business. But if you want to do it anyway, go ahead and and report back your findings.


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## Bonanzaair (Aug 26, 2006)

This thread is so sad... I miss DirecTV like I miss an old girlfriend. She wanted a minimum of a 2 year commitment too. My Series3 makes me happier. TivoCAST, Amazon Downloads, Jaman International and Independent Movies coming soon, Kids Zone, Rhapsody and Universal Swivel Search. Cable cards can be an easy install these days. This thread is so sad.


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## coachO (Nov 26, 2004)

Adam, I agree the HR10 has some flaws, but the HR20 was not the panacea I was hoping for. 

Bona, if Insight cable would have been a good option I would have the Tivo Series 3 also.

Instead, I have the HR10 as primary and the HR20 as secondary. As I have said before, cant really complain about having 4 tuners which have the "best and worst of both worlds".


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

parzec said:


> So don't beat up the messenger - he was only trying to warn you that dealing with DirecTV is risky business. But if you want to do it anyway, go ahead and and report back your findings.


It would help if you would go back and review the thread. I don't need preparation for anything. I've been a DirecTV customer for years and have had the Protection Plan the entire time. As equipment I have purchased has failed over the years it has been replaced with owned equipment. When my HR10-250 began to fail it was replaced with an HR20-700. Because I owned the HR10-250 I own the HR20. It appears on my statement as "additional receiver" rather than leased. I'm "beating up" no one. Just stating facts.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Bonanzaair said:


> This thread is so sad... I miss DirecTV like I miss an old girlfriend. She wanted a minimum of a 2 year commitment too. My Series3 makes me happier. TivoCAST, Amazon Downloads, Jaman International and Independent Movies coming soon, Kids Zone, Rhapsody and Universal Swivel Search. Cable cards can be an easy install these days. This thread is so sad.


ROFL.... that's awesome.

:up:


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

Jon J said:


> It would help if you would go back and review the thread. I don't need preparation for anything. I've been a DirecTV customer for years and have had the Protection Plan the entire time. As equipment I have purchased has failed over the years it has been replaced with owned equipment. When my HR10-250 began to fail it was replaced with an HR20-700. Because I owned the HR10-250 I own the HR20. It appears on my statement as "additional receiver" rather than leased. I'm "beating up" no one. Just stating facts.


Hmmmm. 

You can lead a horse to water . . . .


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Avenger said:


> Hmmmm.
> 
> You can lead a horse to water . . . .


That's a total non sequitur. Maybe you've already had too much


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

RS4 said:


> Yes, do dig them out. I've never received an email or telephone call telling me I qualified for a free upgrade, yet I own an HR10-250. How many more folks like me are out there? In fact, I read the investor call report that showed they were slowing down the upgrades. So, I believe there are probably plenty of other HR10-250 customers who have never gotten any email, message on the Tivo, and/or call from D* telling us there was a free upgrade.


That's because it never happened. So DirecTV did some news releases to some largely unread industry mags. So what. The fact is that, with the exception of a few limited markets, they have NEVER made any effort whatsoever to directly inform HR10 owners that there was an upgrade available. I would argue that MOST HR10 owners have no idea to this day that there is an HR2x of any flavor even available, and they certainly don't know that DirecTV has already rendered their HR10 obsolete. For crying out loud, whenever anyone on this board asserts that DirecTV made a mistake in dumping its association with Tivo, we can't go for five posts without being reminded about how the membership of this board makes up such a slim minority of DirecTV subscribers that our opions don't count with DirecTV. But then we get ebonovic and the DirecTV bootlickers telling us that everyone with an HR10 has had their chance to upgrade (and to get the HR20) and now, thoose who have not yet upgraded simply get whatever they get -- *because the readers of this board knew about it 18 months ago?* Huh.

And, I'm sorry ebonovic, but contrary to what the folks in the executive offices inside the walled garden are telling you, they ARE NOT and HAVE NOT been routinely giving upgrades to either the HR20 OR the HR21 away for free.

Sure, some folks are getting them for the asking. Others have to argue for hours on end with people throughout the DirecTV CS universe to make any headway. Others get some partial dispensation, while many hit a dead end. Most DirecTV subs don't read the discussion boards, and most simply don't have the wherewithal to sit on the phone for hours with DirecTV, negotiating for new equipment to replace a $1000 receiver that DirecTV dustbinned more quickly than a $399 Best Buy laptop. And even those lucky few who are from the "right" markets to win an automatic free upgrade, or who hit the right CSR on the right day, are likelier than not to end up with an "upgrade" that simply represents a major diminution in functionality over what they had previously.

Then, we get the "privilege" of dealing with folks from one end of the DirecTV food chain to the other who don't know Shiite from Shinola about their products. My most recent example? An installer who showed up here in Madison, WI with my new HR21 and told me that "it won't get your locals for you in HD." Turns out that they couldn't do the install that day due to snow anyway, but I spent quite a bit of time after that visit chasing down the truth on that, because NO ONE at DirecTV (including the installer, who has the DirecTV logo emblazoned broadly across the side of his truck) could tell me with any degree of certitude whether or not Madison's locals are actually on the bird in MPEG4. (They are, for the record -- at least some of them.) Read the boards here, and you'll find that just on the subject of the HR 20/21, the answers folks get from DirecTV on the capabilities of the machines vary as much as do the personnel who work for (or contract with) DirecTV.

Perhaps that's what's so galling -- that so many of us have had our "upgrade" experiences be like this, and then we come here and have the D bootlickers tell us how it's our fault, and how it's DirecTV's perogative to do business this way, and how it is all part of some grandly-thought-out master plan which we're just too dumb to understand.


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## daperlman (Jan 25, 2002)

incog-neato said:


> #1) Everyone in the US doesn't get HD locals by sat.
> #2) I use OTA and get around 16 HD locals (including sub-channels) where D* only provides me with the 4 major networks. If I had a better antenna I could get 30+ local HD channels from 4 markets.


And OTA is supieror in every way to the DTV locals.


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Avenger said:


> Perhaps that's what's so galling -- that so many of us have had our "upgrade" experiences be like this, and then we come here and have the D bootlickers tell us how it's our fault, and *how it's DirecTV's perogative to do business this way*, and how it is all part of some grandly-thought-out master plan which we're just too dumb to understand.


While I agree with almost everything you posted, this part I have to disagree with. It is indeed their prerogative to do business any way they see fit. However it is also our prerogative to decide how we react. The landscape is littered with companies that I refuse to do business with and others that I prefer not to do business with. We, as consumers, must speak with our wallets. Unfortunately sticking with DirecTv was best for my own personal situation.


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

midas said:


> While I agree with almost everything you posted, this part I have to disagree with. It is indeed their prerogative to do business any way they see fit. However it is also our prerogative to decide how we react. The landscape is littered with companies that I refuse to do business with and others that I prefer not to do business with. We, as consumers, must speak with our wallets. Unfortunately sticking with DirecTv was best for my own personal situation.


Well, I would agree with you -- and I am still a customer for the same reason. Because the alternative is Charter Cable. And they are the Devil Incarnate. And overpriced.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Avenger said:


> he fact is that, with the exception of a few limited markets, they have NEVER made any effort whatsoever to directly inform HR10 owners that there was an upgrade available. I would argue that MOST HR10 owners have no idea to this day that there is an HR2x of any flavor even available, and they certainly don't know that DirecTV has already rendered their HR10 obsolete.


You are forgetting a few facts here in your rant.

First off, they are now starting to do an active upgrade program starting with LA DNS, Hotpass and Extra Innings. Next will be Sunday Ticket.

Up until this time they have been in no "hurry" to upgrade everybody. If a user sees a commercial or ad for the new HD channels they will call and ask how they can get them. Response: We'll have to upgrade you. Thus the user is the one doing the upgrading which is what DirecTV said they wanted to do a year ago in financial calls. They want the customer to come to them to upgrade on their own.

Now we are probably within a year of MPEG2 HD shutdown and thus now they need to up the ante and get people upgraded that haven't already on their own. I don't doubt as you say that many/most HR10 owners don't have any idea they need new equipment...yet. But why does that matter. They aren't missing anything they don't already get. But now as programming they do get will start going away DirecTV is actively contacting those subs to get them swapped, if they choose to do so of course.

Seems like a pretty sound business plan to me. Let users upgrade on their own, do your work for you so to speak. Then offer the big carrot to get the stragglers upgraded as the timeline nears it's end. If someone upgraded for $299 or whatever on their own instead of waiting now for a free upgrade, that was their choice. I got an HR20 the first day they were available over a year and a half ago and I paid $299. But it was *my choice* to do so. It's only my fault if I feel bad for not getting it for free.


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

shibby191 said:


> First off, they are now starting to do an active upgrade program starting with LA DNS, Hotpass and Extra Innings. Next will be Sunday Ticket.


You missed the point. The point is that ebonovic said these things up above:



> How long do they hold onto the HR20's for those with HR10-250s?
> Given that there have been offers out there for the free updates for those users since last year......


and



> The HR20 was out there for over a year.... sorry that those that didn't upgrade during that first year, now are in this situation...


and



> And yes... this is no mystery... very well publicized that the new HD was comming (sic).
> The information has been available for almost 3 years now. and over the last year, even more so... and in the last 6 months... very difficult to avoid.
> So while there will still be a percentage of people that didn't know.... the vast majority of user know about the changes in store.
> 
> So this is EXACTLY the situation as it is.


and



> But the previous offers (for all of these free HR2x's that ebonovic _SWEARS_ DirecTV has been handing out like candy for the last several years - editorial comment added by me)... were discussed here and many other places as well.


So, my point is that he is wrong on three fronts. First, I simply think that anyone who believes that most people with HR10's know that D has rendered them into doorstops is living in a fantasyland. You admitted as much in your own response. Beyond that, I was contesting ebonovic's assertion that folks who are now getting the POS HR21, including those who cannot get their HD locals in MPEG4, are victims of their own laziness / stupidity / whatever, because EVERYONE knew this day was coming for the last three years, and only the morons failed to get off their butts and "upgrade." I'm just asserting that this is patently false, and that almost no one outside of the very small universe of people here knew this day was coming. Finally, I disagree with the notion that DirecTV has been giving away the HR2x receivers for free for more than a year. Some have gotten them for free. Most have not. I just tend to think that, if a company with which I have a ten-year business relationship decides unilaterally to make obsolete a piece of equipment for which they charged me a premium price, and which they held out to me as the latest, greatest thing just 18 months ago; that it is incumbent upon them to make me whole for their decision -- or lose me as a customer. I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise.

And fine. You think that DirecTV's business plan on this front is brilliant. I think it sucks. I get the sense that I have a lot of folks here who agree with me on that point. How are them D boots tasting, anyway?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

One must remember that most people don't use OTA. Many/most of those that do are the more knowledgeable people that frequent forums like this and have been aware of this transition for 3 years now.

But hey, whatever, who cares. You either upgrade or you don't and go to cable, that is the reality of the situation. That simple.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Wow...

Okay... So..

Magazine articles that cater to the higher end video clientel..... which a larger population of the HD users on DirecTV... tagert....

Those articles never happened.

Forum boards, like this one, and at least three others... have been discussing the transition for over 3 years.....

Those never happened.

DirecTV themselves in their press releases and quarterly meetings, discussing those plans... which then translated into more articles (both print and internet).

Those never happened.

And then as the MPEG-4 started to get finalized...
-) The automated phone calls... those never happened
-) The mailers.... those never happened
-) The DirecTV.com website, and it's information..... that never happened either

None of that never happend?

The fact, that we have significant volume of posts of people who did in fact receive upgrades, for significantly reduced rates.....

People posting steps on how to get an upgraded rate...

The PR director Robert Mercer, comming out and speaking to TV Predictions about the upgrade offer they were having specifically for the HR10-250s...

none of that happened?


-------------------

Yes... those that can't do an upgrade now... missed their opportunity.
Those that waited... for what ever reason be it they didn't think the HR20 was good enough, or that that TiVo was going to come back into the fold...

They may have missed their opportunity.

And it has ZERO to do with with what the people I talk to tell me...
As the facts are the facts...

All of that above... happened... 

The fact that there will always be people that have ZERO idea what is going on... and their kids, or their friends set them up with their systems.... that will always be a case..

But frankly... DirecTV has done a lot of information pushes via almost every form of communication that is common now...

And they caught a lot of CRAP, because of the violation of "DO NOT CALL" when they did make all those calls...

So.... As I have stated countless times...

Your "deal" depends on YOUR history with DirecTV...
If you just got a deal 3 months ago... you are not going to get another now.

If that receiver you got... you picked up off ebay... and it was already "upgraded"... you are not going to get a deal.

So what every you might think of the technology and their path....
It is what it is... and the information is out there.

And yes.... the HR21 and the AM21 solution, which will address anyone that still wants ATSC... is there...


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Yes... those that can't do an upgrade now... missed their opportunity.
> Those that waited... for what ever reason be it they didn't think the HR20 was good enough, or that that TiVo was going to come back into the fold...
> 
> They may have missed their opportunity.


Wait, I don't get what you are saying.

You are saying DirecTV offered free upgrades to HR10 but now they are not?

When was this free upgrade program? How did everyone miss it?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> Wait, I don't get what you are saying.
> 
> You are saying DirecTV offered free upgrades to HR10 but now they are not?
> 
> When was this free upgrade program? How did everyone miss it?


They are still offering the upgrades... and in some cases FREE.

Right now, the free upgrade offer is going to:

-) Previous NASCAR SuperFan subscribers in 2007
-) MLB Extra Innings subscribers in 2007
-) Those with LA-DNS access, or LA-DMA customers.

Those are the only free upgrade offers right now.

If you are not in one of those categories.... there is not a free offer right now, unless you already qualified for one..

And the only way to find that out, is to call and have a CSR review your status.

But one major consideration/concern...
It the HR20 vs HR21 ... the ATSC factor.

The HR21 currently does NOT have an ATSC option.
The AM21 has not bee released yet, it will be soon... but as of today, it is not.

So that is a concern for some HR10-250 upgraders.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Then there was this one:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=361301

Which was $99, with a LOT of people getting it waived for free on at least one system.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Adam1115 said:


> Wait, I don't get what you are saying.
> 
> You are saying DirecTV offered free upgrades to HR10 but now they are not?
> 
> When was this free upgrade program? How did everyone miss it?


Many people have been getting free upgrades for a year and a half now.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

shibby191 said:


> Many people have been getting free upgrades for a year and a half now.


The only ones I've read about is people calling to cancel getting a deal to stay.

Not free upgrades via mailer, etc. as indicated.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

DirecTV has had no public free upgrade program - period!! They have had (and continue to have) selected upgrade programs.

DirecTV has been playing a 'catch-me-if-you-can program' as the primary upgrade vehicle. So, if the client comes to them and stands the right way and says the magic words, then they might get an upgrade.

The only true pro-active replacement program seems to have just started with a few selected regions and/or selected sports package customers.

There have never been emails, mailings, phone calls, Tivo messages or Tivo crawlers for the general HR10-250 population that would indicate a true pro-active free upgrade program. 

And of course the biggest drawbacks to this so-called free program is the lack of a home-trial program, which in turn means that for many customers, the program would not be free at all if the customer decided they did not want the box.


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## HazelW (Dec 6, 2007)

I knew about the upgrades becasue I read the forums and the press. But I never got anything at all from Directv telling me about them. No phone calls, no letters, no info in the monthly bills. Same for my son who has an hr10-250 also.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

RS4 said:


> DirecTV has had no public free upgrade program - period!! They have had (and continue to have) selected upgrade programs.
> 
> DirecTV has been playing a 'catch-me-if-you-can program' as the primary upgrade vehicle. So, if the client comes to them and stands the right way and says the magic words, then they might get an upgrade.


Right, that was my point. Earl made it sound like there was some big upgrade program and that if you missed it you missed the boat.

Not everyone knows how to lie to retentions to get what you want...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

You can continue with the "it isn't there" all you want.

The facts are... it is, and has been... if you qualified for it.
Plain and simple.

You don't have to lie. 
If you qualify for a free upgrade, you will get one.

Plain and simple.

And yes... there were larger promotion/time periods, where more people qualified then today.

And like it or not, those larger promotions are not going on right now.

So yes... if you missed them... you have missed the boat, and will have to wait for the next promotion you qualify for.

Plain and simple.

Those are the facts of what has occured, and what is going on today.

If you want to continue calling me a lier... have at it.
But it is no mystery, and there are a LOT of users that didn't have to lie to get free upgrades.... why... because they were offered free upgrades.

But yet... RS4 still wants his cake and eat it too.


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

RS4 said:


> DirecTV has had no public free upgrade program - period!! They have had (and continue to have) selected upgrade programs.
> 
> DirecTV has been playing a 'catch-me-if-you-can program' as the primary upgrade vehicle. So, if the client comes to them and stands the right way and says the magic words, then they might get an upgrade.
> 
> ...


Exactly -- that's my whole point. Look, ebonovic, I have a lot of respect for you -- you are a tremendous resource for this board, and we're lucky to have you here. But on this front, I think you are taking your atypical level of knowledge about these things are are projecting that upon the overall population of DirecTV customers.



> Magazine articles that cater to the higher end video clientel..... which a larger population of the HD users on DirecTV... tagert....
> 
> Those articles never happened.
> 
> ...


I'm no disputing that most of that probably happened. But what I'm telling you is that probably les than 1/2 of one percent of HR10 owners read "TV Predictions." They don't listen to the podcasts of DirecTV's quarterly meetngs. And they don't visit directv.com five times a day, covered with goosebumps at the thought of some new press release coming down from on high with new information about HD channels, or their receivers.

No. I've got news for ya'll. For most DirecTV subs, including most HR10 owners, _it's only TV._ They don't hang out in chatrooms talking about it. They don't read magazines, or press releases, and they don't even visit DirecTV's website, except maybe to pay their bill each month. They bought their HR10 because the dude at Best Buy told them that this is the machine they needed if they wanted their new flat panel TV to give them their shows in HD. And as long as the receiver keps chugging along, they pretty much just keep paying their monthly bill -- and that's about the limit of their interest in it.

And as for the mailers and the phone calls? I'm here to tell you they haven't happened here. I have TWO HR10's, and I consider myself VERY widely read. Other than here, I have NEVER ONCE heard a single word about the HR2x. Never. No mailings. No calls. Nothing. Nor has my neighbor, who has one. Nor has my friend, the Panamanian immigrant and hi-tech guru who has an HR10 and is really into this stuff. Neither has my aunt, who has an HR10 and just quietly pays her bill and watches her TV. Nor has my father-in-law, who is too busy running a real estate business 80 hours a week to do much more with his TV than watch it when he has time -- which is why he has an HR10 in he first place.

RS4 is absolutely spot-on in his/her assessment. With the exception of a VERY FEW (repeat VERY FEW) limited markets, DirecTV has made no effort whatsoever to let their customers know directly that the end is near with regard to their HR10's.

That's why the following attitude is so puzzling, and infuriating, and galling, all at once:



> Yes... those that can't do an upgrade now... missed their opportunity.
> Those that waited... for what ever reason be it they didn't think the HR20 was good enough, or that that TiVo was going to come back into the fold...
> 
> They may have missed their opportunity.


My point is that, for the overwhelming majority of HR10 owners, they've NEVER HAD AN OPPORTUNITY. This idea that the DirecTV Bootlicker Corps (r) here has that EVERYONE has had an opportunity to upgrade is pure poppycock.

Think of it this way -- if you were unhappy with your wife because you thought she was unsufficiently inattentive to you, and you were DirecTV, you'd handle it by complaining to your friends, and talking about it with co-workers -- and then hold your wife responsible (even though you've never bothered to, oh, TALK TO HER DIRECTLY ABOUT YOUR CONCERNS) because she just didn't take the time to find about about your concerns by talking to your friends and trying to cajole the information out of them. Or read your mind.

That's how you seem to think that DirecTV should deal with its customers -- and screw everyone who thinks otherwise. I guess that attitude on the part of the DirecTV Bootlicker Corps (r) is what wears on some folks here. And this comes from a recovering member of the Corps (r). No one used to be more vocal in promoting DirecTV than me. I'd venture that they have at least 10 solid households subscribing to them today because of my advocacy. But no more. Now they're on my short list, and this kind of crap is the reason. Great business strategy, huh?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> You can continue with the "it isn't there" all you want.
> 
> The facts are... it is, and has been... if you qualified for it.
> Plain and simple.
> ...


Earl, I'm with you on most things, but this just plain isn't true.

When HD-LIL first came out, the HR20 wasn't released. They were still selling the HR10 for $599. If you wanted HD-LIL you had to have an H20, no DVR!

They were PROMISING that as SOON as the HR20 was released, you would get a free upgrade. DOZENS of people reported being told this in the forums, so think of all the people that DON'T visit forums that signed up for new service with DirecTV, bought their $600 DVR finding out that actually, it's already obsolete and can't receive locals.

I was a person that was told DON'T WORRY, you can buy the HR10 now and we'll upgrade you to the HR20 as soon as it came out. I couldn't receive OTA at the time and HD-LIL in Denver was already live. They would NOT give me an HR20, I talked to retentions several times.

Once I canceled, THEN the broke out the big guns and offered me an upgrade.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

What ever you want to think of what has happened in the last 18 months...
I am not going to spend my time rehashing everything that has happened... again.

The situation as it is today:

-) There are only 3 promotions right now, that will get you a free upgrade.
-) You may posisble still qualify for a free upgrade, if you don't qualify for the promotion... Only way to tell is to call.

The HR20 is in very limited quanities, and is pretty much being reserved for model-to-model replacements. Those upgrading from an HR10-250, that NEED to have OTA... TODAY... they are also attempting to get them HR20s.

Else: HR21 and if you want ATSC with that, you will have to wait for the AM21.

That is what it is... today.
If you want to hash over what has happened for the last 18 months... have at it, but it doesn't change the situation as it is today, or what it will be tomorrow.

If you feel that you have been screwed over by DirecTV, and don't like their business strategy... that is your right as a consumer.

The facts are... there have been offers for the last 18 months.
Those that called, and were not offered them... may have simply not qualified for them.


Sorry that all their forms of communication have managed to miss you.

But doesn't change the facts, that they were done... and that people did receive them.


And yes, I am very much aware of when HD-LILs were started to be releaed, you only had the H20... there was no DVR... and then went on for almost a year.

Very much aware of that, as I did get an H20 so I could get my Chicago CBS in HD, since the HR10-250 could not pick it up via OTA... unless I changed my antenna installation... which wasn't going to happen.

But that was between: August 2005 and August 2006 (roughly).
In August 2006, there was an HD-DVR that could get the HD-LiL's


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## eileen22 (Oct 20, 2006)

I am one of the lucky ones who rolled the dice and waited on the upgrade and are now getting it for free. I can confirm that I was offered a free upgrade to the HR20 about 6-8 months ago, but I decided to wait awhile. DTV did not contact me to offer me that upgrade, I contacted them. I have the HR10, and can't get the locals OTA because of my location, so my husband has been bugging me about getting the new receiver for awhile now. I'm not usually an early adopter, and I wanted to see if some of the bugs could be worked out of the new unit before committing (and I use dual buffers daily). As the DTV ads for the HD upgrades started to run, I knew that I would likely have to pay for the upgrade now, since it would be more in demand. However, last week I received a call telling me that since I subscribe to the MLB EI package w/HD, I qualify for a free upgrade. They said that if I don't upgrade, I won't be albe to receive this season's MLB games in HD. I agreed, and they are coming on Feb. 13th to install everything.

I can see both sides of this disagreement, since I am pretty "tuned in" to the DTV technology offerings, and my husband is clueless. He would not have known to upgrade for free 6-8 months ago, unless he got sick of the locals in SD and called DTV.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

eileen22 said:


> I am one of the lucky ones who rolled the dice and waited on the upgrade and are now getting it for free. I can confirm that I was offered a free upgrade to the HR20 about 6-8 months ago, but I decided to wait awhile. DTV did not contact me to offer me that upgrade, I contacted them. I have the HR10, and can't get the locals OTA because of my location, so my husband has been bugging me about getting the new receiver for awhile now. I'm not usually an early adopter, and I wanted to see if some of the bugs could be worked out of the new unit before committing (and I use dual buffers daily). As the DTV ads for the HD upgrades started to run, I knew that I would likely have to pay for the upgrade now, since it would be more in demand. However, last week I received a call telling me that since I subscribe to the MLB EI package w/HD, I qualify for a free upgrade. They said that if I don't upgrade, I won't be albe to receive this season's MLB games in HD. I agreed, and they are coming on Feb. 13th to install everything.
> 
> I can see both sides of this disagreement, since I am pretty "tuned in" to the DTV technology offerings, and my husband is clueless. He would not have known to upgrade for free 6-8 months ago, unless he got sick of the locals in SD and called DTV.


While I agree with your statemtn about your husband, I cannot believe that most people would not do even a slight amount of research about the whole issue and find out about HR2X being the only DVR that receives MPEG 4 signals. I just dont know a way for them to get the message out to all the people. Someone is going to be missed, whether its the person who does nto access to the internet, or someone who missed the phone call. There is always going to be someone who doesnt get the message.


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

jimb726 said:


> While I agree with your statemtn about your husband, I cannot believe that most people would not do even a slight amount of research about the whole issue and find out about HR2X being the only DVR that receives MPEG 4 signals. I just dont know a way for them to get the message out to all the people. Someone is going to be missed, whether its the person who does nto access to the internet, or someone who missed the phone call. There is always going to be someone who doesnt get the message.


How would they even know!? You don't know how they would get the word out? HOW ABOUT SEND A FRICKIN' MAILER? The fact is that, for the overwhelming majority of the country, DirecTV has done NONE OF THIS. They haven't called. They haven't e-mailed. They haven't sent a letter. Nothing at all. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand. DirecTV has screwed the pooch big time on this thing, and continues to do so to this day.


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

like I would have read a mailing from DTV? 

you got jokes


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

Jebberwocky! said:


> like I would have read a mailing from DTV?
> 
> you got jokes


Well, OK, fair enough! 

I guess my point is that DirecTV never has any problems getting in touch with its subscribers when it comes time to bill them for service. So, when it is a priority, DirecTV finds a way. In this case, it is clearly not a priority for them to take care of their customers on this, and it has not been.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Avenger said:


> How would they even know!? You don't know how they would get the word out? HOW ABOUT SEND A FRICKIN' MAILER? The fact is that, for the overwhelming majority of the country, DirecTV has done NONE OF THIS. They haven't called. They haven't e-mailed. They haven't sent a letter. Nothing at all. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand. DirecTV has screwed the pooch big time on this thing, and continues to do so to this day.


What some are failing to understand is like I posted earlier, they haven't been actively trying to upgrade anyone until recently. They haven't needed to. Their whole strategy was to get people to upgrade on their own as much as possible.

Why?

Because there has been no need to upgrade unless you wanted the new channels.

Now it's different because people that aren't upgraded will *lose programming* unless they do upgrade. Thus now the offers to those people effected that will lose programming (LA DNS, MLB EI and Hotpass).

If you upgraded on your own before now and paid that was your choice. By the end of the transition you can bet eveyrone will be offered an upgrade, just not until you are effected by losing channels.

Having said that, many people have gotten sweet upgrade deals up until now with no special offer going on.

It's pretty simple really.

It also needs to be said that there were at most 250K HR10s in service, and many people had more then one so less then that in total subs. Estimates are around 100K left that haven't gotten at least one MPEG4 box. Out of nearly 17 million subs now. So it's not like this whole huge userbase that has no idea. It's a very small userbase.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Avenger said:


> How would they even know!? You don't know how they would get the word out? HOW ABOUT SEND A FRICKIN' MAILER? The fact is that, for the overwhelming majority of the country, DirecTV has done NONE OF THIS. They haven't called. They haven't e-mailed. They haven't sent a letter. Nothing at all. Why is this so hard for everyone to understand. DirecTV has screwed the pooch big time on this thing, and continues to do so to this day.


Have you done a survey to verify your claim that the "overwhelming majority of the country".... that DirecTV has not done any of that?

Please provide me a link to the results of that survey, that you are using as your basis for that claim.

Even if every member of this forum chimmed in on a poll... that would still be less then 1% of the HD customer user base.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Earl...I admire your sticktoitiveness, but you are beating your head against a wall.

It's like trying to teach a pig to talk. You'll never do it but in the process you'll do nothing but p*ss off the pig.


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## jor-el (May 24, 2002)

At the risk of resurrecting the dead horse...

The claim by Earl that those who missed the HR-20 have only themselves to blame is incorrect. I occasionally clicked on the upgrade receiver and it was always $300. People were making a half dozen calls of CSR roulette to get one for the $19.99 price. And given the troubles my buddy had (2 replacements last year), I didn't see a need to hurry. I didn't even let the hdtivo upgrade past the 3.1 version. Only recently did they suddenly get interested in upgrading me for free, and of course didn't mention any service commitment until after the old dish was destroyed and the hr-21 installed.

Is it a huge loss, getting the hr-21? Probably not, esp if that funky add on shows up and works. Doesn't seem to be as big as deal as this very heated thread (and all the others) would suggest. 

But let's stop with the notion that Directv is a much more noble company than comcast and the other cable providers.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

jor-el said:


> At the risk of resurrecting the dead horse...
> 
> The claim by Earl that those who missed the HR-20 have only themselves to blame is incorrect. I occasionally clicked on the upgrade receiver and it was always $300. People were making a half dozen calls of CSR roulette to get one for the $19.99 price. And given the troubles my buddy had (2 replacements last year), I didn't see a need to hurry. I didn't even let the hdtivo upgrade past the 3.1 version. Only recently did they suddenly get interested in upgrading me for free, and of course didn't mention any service commitment until after the old dish was destroyed and the hr-21 installed.
> 
> ...


Not sure what you are saying? Earl's comment that you refernece was in response to people complaining that now they could no longer just call and threaten to canel and get everything for free. There is every indication that has taken place, there are more threads from people complaining that they cannot get anything for free then there are people bragging what they got for free. heck there was one guy who was upset because when he said cancel at the prompt they took him up on it. It has been stated that those with HR10 will most likely be given the opportunity to upgrade at little cost, which is what your situation implies. But given that you had an HR10, I dont see where your particular situation disproves what might have been said.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

jimb726 said:


> Not sure what you are saying? Earl's comment that you refernece was in response to people complaining that now they could no longer just call and threaten to canel and get everything for free. There is every indication that has taken place, there are more threads from people complaining that they cannot get anything for free then there are people bragging what they got for free. heck there was one guy who was upset because when he said cancel at the prompt they took him up on it. It has been stated that those with HR10 will most likely be given the opportunity to upgrade at little cost, which is what your situation implies. But given that you had an HR10, I dont see where your particular situation disproves what might have been said.


Correct...

And from some of the conversations that I have had this week...
Looks like the "purse" strings have continued to tighten this month as well.

So right now, if you don't qualify for one of the upgrade promotions... don't expect the "house" in credits and discounts.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Correct...
> 
> And from some of the conversations that I have had this week...
> Looks like the "purse" strings have continued to tighten this month as well.
> ...


However, they must still have some incentives left, because the retention CSR that canceled my account yesterday was willing to give me all kinds of stuff if I would stay - except of course the only real incentive I wanted - a home-trial period for the HR20. She said they were forbidden from doing that and no one could offer it. So, we decided to close out the account.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> However, they must still have some incentives left, because the retention CSR that canceled my account yesterday was willing to give me all kinds of stuff if I would stay - except of course the only real incentive I wanted - a home-trial period for the HR20. She said they were forbidden from doing that and no one could offer it. So, we decided to close out the account.


Yes, they have some left...

But as I have been saying for a while... they are gradually restricting it more and more.

And I am sure the fact that you call at the start of the month, the "pool" was a little more full then say if you call at the end of the month.


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## pmturcotte (May 7, 2001)

RS4 said:


> However, they must still have some incentives left, because the retention CSR that canceled my account yesterday was willing to give me all kinds of stuff if I would stay - except of course the only real incentive I wanted - a home-trial period for the HR20. She said they were forbidden from doing that and no one could offer it. So, we decided to close out the account.


Frankly I'm surprised they could even figure out how to cancel your account. It took me 7 calls, 4 to retention, just to get them to figure out how to add my stolen HD channels back. Three of the four really had no idea what MPEG4 or MPEG2 was. The only way it worked the final time is when I mentioned they were digging the lines for FIOS in our neighborhood. Oh, hey, wait a minute, I found the magic "restore your stolen HD channels" button, there you go sir, all set, is there anything else I can do for you?

For the record I've been a customer for 8 years, premium packages and with between 4 and 6 sports subscriptions each year. I have tried intermittently over the past 4 months to get a free upgrade and failed each time. CSRS, online, retention operators - no one was interested in giving me anything of the sort. Why should long time customers have to beg like this? They dont care that some forum tells you about a free upgrade. If they dont know about it (highly likely) then they could give a crap. The one time I did get someone to talk about new receivers, they told me that the HR21 was able to record OTA just like the HR20 - "they're the same receiver on the inside". 



jor-el said:


> But let's stop with the notion that Directv is a much more noble company than comcast and the other cable providers.


Agreed. I've already resigned myself to the fact I would give up Sunday Ticket (and its ever increasing $$$$ for SuperFan HD) in a heartbeat if FIOS was able to get the Extra Innings package.

Its funny though how we've gone from a Tivo only forum, to its "ok" to talk about the new boxes - to now trashing people who want to talk about how much they love Tivo and dont like the new boxes. We've come a long way I guess.


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