# Annoying new "feature" in service update 11.0c



## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

I noticed today, with the 11.0c service update, if one Pauses you now get an annoying blue bar in the middle of the screen asking if you'd like more info about ___ show you're watching. If you select it you're brought to the Swivel Search feature...hardly what I need when I want to Pause. You can remove the blue bar by pressing the down arrow, which stops the blue bar from showing for the remainder of that show, but a black line with instructions below the green progress bar remains as long as the progress bar remains. 

I called Tivo and they confirmed it as a new Pause menu feature...one you can't opt out of.

Maybe it's me, but I don't see any benefit to this. 

Very annoying.


----------



## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

already a thread going on this one


vittoria said:


> Very annoying.


----------



## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

OK. In the time it took to write my initial post all evidence of this new (and confirmed by Tivo) Pause "feature" has disappeared. No blue bar...no black bar with instructions...all gone as if it was never there.

I'm hoping it stays this way but now I'm wondering how an intentionally implemented feature could just vanish.


----------



## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

Sorry. I looked first for any posts regarding the update and only saw the one about multiple reboots.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Perhaps they got the message that the pause thing is, to put it mildly, unpopular and removed it. But then perhaps that is just wishful thinking........


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This "feature" has been on S2 TiVos for several months now. In some cases there is not just the "More about..." selection but also an additional selection for an ad so it covers up even more of the screen. I really dislike this and hate that it's now showing up on S3 TiVos. 

Dan


----------



## bgc (Jan 13, 2008)

Just hit FF or Rew after pause and everything clears from the screen.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Hitting "clear" also clears the screen. But that's not the point. The point is these stupid ads are overrunning the UI. 

The little star ads at the bottom of the groups are annoying too. A lot of time I will go into a group, hit channel down to get to the oldest episode and as soon as I hit play the little ad will appear and force the selection to jump up one (not sure why) which in turn causes it to play the wrong episode. 

I didn't mind the TiVo Central ad, or even the one they added to the delete dialog at the end of a show, but some of these new ones are getting very intrusive and are really starting to irritate me. 

Dan


----------



## vittoria (Apr 15, 2008)

I had never heard of this before today. My S3 got the update this afternoon and I noticed it immediately. 

I like the fast forward / rewind after Pause tip. Thanks.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> Hitting "clear" also clears the screen. But that's not the point. The point is these stupid ads are overrunning the UI.


Exactly the reason why I bought my original TiVo series 1. The AT&T cable box GUI was grotesquely infested with ads, the TiVo GUI was wonderful in comparison.


----------



## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm hopeing one of these updates removes the "HD recordings" folder in the(what I consider), cluttered playlist. I mean how meaningless is that anyway? And not far behind that is the "deleted programs folder". That one I can understand having...but just place it elsewhere.


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

I use it all the time, for a number of different purposes. The fact would seem to belie the notion it is meaningless. I also like the Deleted Items folder just where it is, at the bottom of the NPL. It's out of the way there, yet easily accessible. The same goes for the HD folder.


----------



## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

Not really on topic, but I also like the Deleted Programs folder just the way it is. I don't use the HD Recordings folder though.


----------



## mp11 (Jan 29, 2008)

spocko said:


> Not really on topic, but I also like the Deleted Programs folder just the way it is. I don't use the HD Recordings folder though.


Swap the deleted programs folder with the standby button. *THAT* needs to be up front. Reading past reviews on the Tivos, not many understand the lack on an "OFF" button, and neither do I.


----------



## MikeAndrews (Jan 17, 2002)

mp11 said:


> Swap the deleted programs folder with the standby button. *THAT* needs to be up front. Reading past reviews on the Tivos, not many understand the lack on an "OFF" button, and neither do I.


I understand it. You can't expect to turn off a 7x24 up to two sources simultaneously recorder. Standby only turns off a few lights and the output.


----------



## ahipsher (Oct 29, 2008)

spocko said:


> Not really on topic, but I also like the Deleted Programs folder just the way it is. I don't use the HD Recordings folder though.


The only reason I use the HD folder is so I know which shows are eating the majority of my hard drive space. It is much more important to watch a couple HD shows so I can delete it and keep space on the Tivo so it doesn't delete 4 month old shows I might want to watch someday. 

Aaron


----------



## tootal2 (Oct 14, 2005)

vittoria said:


> I noticed today, with the 11.0c service update, if one Pauses you now get an annoying blue bar in the middle of the screen asking if you'd like more info about ___ show you're watching. If you select it you're brought to the Swivel Search feature...hardly what I need when I want to Pause. You can remove the blue bar by pressing the down arrow, which stops the blue bar from showing for the remainder of that show, but a black line with instructions below the green progress bar remains as long as the progress bar remains.
> 
> I called Tivo and they confirmed it as a new Pause menu feature...one you can't opt out of.
> 
> ...


all you have to do is press down and you wont see it.


----------



## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

tootal2 said:


> all you have to do is press down and you wont see it.


..and those who love it (was there ANYONE?) can then push the "up" arrow and it will return. With the "down" arrow, it should not return the next time you hit "pause." So while there is no opt out, at least it appears you CAN get rid of it.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

hybucket said:


> ..and those who love it (was there ANYONE?) can then push the "up" arrow and it will return. With the "down" arrow, it should not return the next time you hit "pause." So while there is no opt out, at least it appears you CAN get rid of it.


The 'problem' is that the down area only hides it for that program. It returns for the next program.


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

mp11 said:


> Swap the deleted programs folder with the standby button. *THAT* needs to be up front. Reading past reviews on the Tivos, not many understand the lack on an "OFF" button, and neither do I.


Modern DVRs from TiVo, DirecTV, Dish Nework, and most cable providers do not turn 'off.' They run 24/7. Power and standby switches only toggle off the video outputs and front LEDs, saving 1-2 watts. My 1TB TivoHD uses 34 watts normally, and 32 watts in standby.

Why is this? Through extensive testing, DVR manufacturers have determined that running 24/7 is the easiest way to prolong the life of a DVR. That may sound counterintuitive, until you realize that frequent power cycles and spindowns have a much worse impact on drive longevity than running 24/7.

The primary 'use' of standby on a TiVo is to re-enable parental controls, such as Kidzone, after you've temporarily disabled them.


----------



## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

bkdtv said:


> The 'problem' is that the down area only hides it for that program. It returns for the next program.


Aaah. Thanks. I just noticed it today, and haven't played around with enough to see that. In that case, it certainly is a pain.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Wow, that's amazing. I think this is great. I can't believe everybody hates it.

I just wish it drilled a little deeper (I'd love for it to give info on episode guest stars, e.g.).


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

I paused for the first time today since the software upgrade. I have no problems with this feature. If it's covering something I want to see, I use the down arrow. Big deal. It seems someone has already figured out a way to make it less obtrusive with an SPS hack: External Link


----------



## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

mp11 said:


> I'm hopeing one of these updates removes the "HD recordings" folder in the(what I consider), cluttered playlist. I mean how meaningless is that anyway? And not far behind that is the "deleted programs folder". That one I can understand having...but just place it elsewhere.


The HD Recordings folder has been one of the most useless features for me. I can't imagine ever wanting to find something based on whether or not the HD flag was set when it was recorded.


----------



## BJezz (Jan 12, 2009)

I actually like the HD folder. We're likely to watch an HD recording ahead of anything else to keep the free space up on the hard disk, so to have a folder that groups them together seems like a good idea to me.

I also don't have a problem with the new pause feature. It's a good feature to be able to jump straight into the new TiVo Search from a program. Generally speaking, if I pause a program it's because I'm temporarily not watching it, so not really worried if the picture is slightly obscured by anything so long as I have the ability to clear it if I do want to view the still image.


----------



## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I've had 11C a couple days and have yet to see the pause "features" and ads. I am not networked, so see sometimes it is better to be behind the times, older is better and all that....but I do see the thumbs thing and that floating ad in the Apprentice for LifeLock, but I also hear people complain about Dominoes Pizza, and I never see that. Love that dialup, love it......


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Wow, that's amazing. I think this is great. I can't believe everybody hates it.
> 
> I just wish it drilled a little deeper (I'd love for it to give info on episode guest stars, e.g.).


I agree Rob. I can't understand the hate for this; it's so easy to get rid of if you want to. It can be very helpful (and even more so as you have suggested).


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> I agree Rob. I can't understand the hate for this; it's so easy to get rid of if you want to. It can be very helpful (and even more so as you have suggested).


The point is if you don't want it *you have to get rid of it _ over and over and over and over again!*. Much better to bring it up if you want it!

I knew when I got up this morning that I got 11.0C last night. My TiVoHD was in a constant reboot cycle this morning that only could be stopped by pulling the plug and plugging it back in.

Absolutely absurd that doing that should ever be necessary- especially since it's very inconvenient to pull the plug with the box in an entertainment center where neither the back of the box nor the UPS is readily accessable.


----------



## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

FYI, if you use the shortcut (SPlaySPauseS) to clear off the green bar showing where you are in the show quickly, it also clears this annoying feature.


----------



## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

RoyK said:


> The point is if you don't want it *you have to get rid of it _ over and over and over and over again!*. Much better to bring it up if you want it!
> 
> I knew when I got up this morning that I got 11.0C last night. My TiVoHD was in a constant reboot cycle this morning that only could be stopped by pulling the plug and plugging it back in.
> 
> Absolutely absurd that doing that should ever be necessary- especially since it's very inconvenient to pull the plug with the box in an entertainment center where neither the back of the box nor the UPS is readily accessable.


I agree with two points - if you like it - be able to opt in. If you don't like it - OPT OUT

And Tivo must not have considered the aesthetic impacts of no easy on/off switch when tivo is embedded into a cabinet. I have the same problems as you - gaining access to the power cord was a regular nightmare. Although my ups strip was somewhat accessible, I did not know which was the tivo cord and did not want to turn everything off. I finally found a switch which is more or less just a male-switch-female about 1 inch square. Now tivo is plugged into that switch, the switch adapter into the ups and I can throw its switch to turn off only the tivo.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ThreeSoFar said:


> FYI, if you use the shortcut (SPlaySPauseS) to clear off the green bar showing where you are in the show quickly, it also clears this annoying feature.


The green bar is useful - especially in ff and rewind.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

RoyK said:


> The point is if you don't want it *you have to get rid of it _ over and over and over and over again!*. Much better to bring it up if you want it!


Bingo!

I get it.
The ability to hit swivel search directly from the recording is cool
Having that "More About" prompt on there all the time is not.
If I press Down to hide it, it should stay off until I hit Up to get it back, period.

I can choose to have Suggestions on or off. Why can't I turn off that prompt when I want to?

And yes, I know about the SPS code.
The progress bar doesn't bather me (there are times I want it there).
The text at the bottom of the screen doesn't bother me.
The More About Prompt does bother me.

I just want the ability to turn off that prompt and have it stay off from recording to recording.

Is that too much to ask?


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

JYoung said:


> Bingo!
> 
> I get it.
> The ability to hit swivel search directly from the recording is cool ...


There is a perfect way they SHOULD implement the More About thing - use the Info button on the remote to get ...ummm... Info.

Of course removing the More About would also remove the hook designed to attach ads on pause - which have already been seen on S2 boxes and is the real reason behind the change in the first place.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Tivo just doesnt get it. Save us Sony, Samsung, and LG.


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

I wish TiVo would give us tit for tat.
Since they're adding this "feature" from the Series 2 to the Series 3,
They need to add the folder play/delete feature from the Series 3 to the Series 2.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I knew when I got up this morning that I got 11.0C last night. My TiVoHD was in a constant reboot cycle this morning that only could be stopped by pulling the plug and plugging it back in.
> 
> Absolutely absurd that doing that should ever be necessary- especially since it's very inconvenient to pull the plug with the box in an entertainment center where neither the back of the box nor the UPS is readily accessable.


Roy,

Is your TivoHD stock (or have one of the upgraded drives which does not have the soft boot problem)? I would definitely wonder why it kept rebooting if so and required a hard power cycle.

Scott


----------



## spocko (Feb 4, 2009)

RoyK said:


> There is a perfect way they SHOULD implement the More About thing - use the Info button on the remote to get ...ummm... Info.


+1!! :up::up::up:

That is where this "feature" logically belongs. Attaching it to pause doesn't make sense.


----------



## WhiskeyTango (Sep 20, 2006)

BJezz said:


> I actually like the HD folder. We're likely to watch an HD recording ahead of anything else to keep the free space up on the hard disk, so to have a folder that groups them together seems like a good idea to me.


I would enjoy this too if the info in the HD Folder were accurate. As I have posted in another thread, there is an issue with shows not being recorded as "HD" even though they are. I have several shows that are in HD but are not noted as being HD and therefore do not showup in the HD folder making it rather pointless. If this could be fixed it would be more useful.

As for the pause menu...I think it's pretty annoying. It is a feature that can be easily accessed by <--, Explore this Program. There really is no need for it to be on screen.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I knew when I got up this morning that I got 11.0C last night. My TiVoHD was in a constant reboot cycle this morning that only could be stopped by pulling the plug and plugging it back in.
> 
> Absolutely absurd that doing that should ever be necessary- especially since it's very inconvenient to pull the plug with the box in an entertainment center where neither the back of the box nor the UPS is readily accessable.


I had those same problems with my TiVo HD; it took multiple power cycles (after the 1st I was still getting the power up screen, after the 2nd I was getting gray screens w/o any signal).

What I've seen sold is power strips that have switches for individual outlets. I'm considering buying one of those strips for my two DirecTiVos and my TiVo HD in the cabinet. It's absurd that we need to consider "solutions" like that. Does TiVo even bother QCing their software?


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

HerronScott said:


> Roy,
> 
> Is your TivoHD stock (or have one of the upgraded drives which does not have the soft boot problem)? I would definitely wonder why it kept rebooting if so and required a hard power cycle.
> 
> Scott


I had this problem. I'm running a stock TiVo HD with an external expander.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> Roy,
> 
> Is your TivoHD stock (or have one of the upgraded drives which does not have the soft boot problem)? I would definitely wonder why it kept rebooting if so and required a hard power cycle.
> 
> Scott


Stock, with external hard drive.
This isn't the first time it has happened either. Cold start always recovers it.


----------



## wickerbill (Apr 4, 2002)

I can't stand this "feature". I can't see myself EVER using this crap so why won't TiVo let me disable it permanently? I have never used swivel search or whatever it's trying to direct you to and probably never will. This is when I hate that I can't ignore a software update. My TiVo was working great before this latest change. I hope they wake up and give us a way to turn this off permanently.


----------



## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

We got the new software last Thursday so encountered the Pause feature for the first time. I decided to show it off to my wife and selected to get more information. Got a blank screen and lock up immediately. Had to pull the plug and restart. Wife said "don't do that again". I agreed.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

janry said:


> We got the new software last Thursday so encountered the Pause feature for the first time. I decided to show it off to my wife and selected to get more information. Got a blank screen and lock up immediately. Had to pull the plug and restart. Wife said "don't do that again". I agreed.


First time I tried it, I was in the "please wait" screen for several minutes. I was about to unplug, when it finally told me the "service was unavailable". Next time I tried (last evening), it worked fine.

I still don't know why everyone's panties are in a bunch over this. It's very easily ignored and certainly not intrusive; you're in pause mode for crying out loud. There's nothing it's intruding upon.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Tivo just doesnt get , the extremely long menu transitions make the box more and more useless. The netflix bookmark was a great idea, because it took at least 3-4mins just to run netflix. This feature is more a flaw.


----------



## janry (Jan 2, 2003)

Bierboy said:


> First time I tried it, I was in the "please wait" screen for several minutes.


I never got a "please wait" message. If I had, I would have waited longer. I really don't mind this feature. It's just something I would never really use. I only tried it for the sake of trying it.


----------



## BJezz (Jan 12, 2009)

WhiskeyTango said:


> I would enjoy this too if the info in the HD Folder were accurate. As I have posted in another thread, there is an issue with shows not being recorded as "HD" even though they are. I have several shows that are in HD but are not noted as being HD and therefore do not showup in the HD folder making it rather pointless. If this could be fixed it would be more useful.
> 
> As for the pause menu...I think it's pretty annoying. It is a feature that can be easily accessed by <--, Explore this Program. There really is no need for it to be on screen.


I've never noticed anything missing from the HD folder, but going back to the menu to explore a program does not work on live TV, so this is a new feature.

I have to admit that I don't see the harm in remembering whether you pressed down to hide the new option for the next time you pause, although if this is to deliver additional adverts then I can see why they haven't provided that option. My theory as to why this is a pause option rather than in the info box is that it ensures the program is paused while running a full screen app, although they could have automatically paused the program if selected from the info box too.

But I am still surprised as to how negative the reaction to this is. If you paused a program in the old version you still got the time line over the top, so if you wanted to see the picture completely uncluttered you'd still have to press clear. Personally I find the pop up advertising broadcast over the bottom of programs far more evasive as they are distracting and obscure the view of the program you are watching, but there's no way to clear them off the screen.

One thing I noticed is that the new option looks like a single entry menu, which implies that more options may appear in that menu in the future, but if you press down it hides it rather than navigates the menu, so I'm not sure what the future plans for this might be.


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

I hope Tivo is keeping track of who pushes "down" to hide this annoying new thing.

This way they can see I hide it EVERY time it shows up.

Let me opt out, please?!?!?


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

It's one little line on the screen, when you've paused the show. If you paused to go do something else, who cares. If you paused to see something on the screen, hit clear like you would have anyway.

This has some use some of the time for some people. For everyone else, what difference does it make? How is it interfering in any way with your ability to watch the show or use the Tivo?

I swear that this board is increasingly overrun with anti-Tivo folks from competing companies, trying to accomplish something they never will...


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

AbMagFab said:


> It's one little line on the screen, when you've paused the show. If you paused to go do something else, who cares. If you paused to see something on the screen, hit clear like you would have anyway.
> 
> This has some use some of the time for some people. For everyone else, what difference does it make? How is it interfering in any way with your ability to watch the show or use the Tivo?
> 
> I swear that this board is increasingly overrun with anti-Tivo folks from competing companies, trying to accomplish something they never will...


is your service FREE, because if it is? how do i switch to that type of service ?


----------



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

Videodrome said:


> is your service FREE, because if it is? how do i switch to that type of service ?


antenna plus vcr.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

jrm01 said:


> antenna plus vcr.


Okay, i wanted a real answer, So if you paid for a service ,and it was changed and didnt like it, you dont think you should complain ?


----------



## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> For everyone else, what difference does it make? How is it interfering in any way with your ability to watch the show or use the Tivo?


I'm in the camp that doesn't like this, but can live with it. However, I did find one area where it does make a difference. When watching hockey (on a delayed basis) I always paused at the end of a period to study the stats posted for the proceeding period. The Time-Bar never was in the way and I could look at the stats, then skip to the beginning of the next period.

Now, however, the new More-About does cover up the last two lines of stats. I have to press Down Arrow at the beginning of the game. That means 3 extra key strokes each week.

I keep a list of 100 things I would like to see changed with TiVo. This just made my list. It is number 97.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

AbMagFab said:


> It's one little line on the screen, when you've paused the show. If you paused to go do something else, who cares. If you paused to see something on the screen, hit clear like you would have anyway.
> 
> This has some use some of the time for some people. For everyone else, what difference does it make? How is it interfering in any way with your ability to watch the show or use the Tivo?
> 
> I swear that this board is increasingly overrun with anti-Tivo folks from competing companies, trying to accomplish something they never will...


+1
I think you got it correct but some people do think that if you pay you should get no ads. Think of how nuts people would go if HBO started putting ads in their programs/movies. TiVos main job is to time shift your TV programs and reduce the time you have to spend when an ad does appear in your program, you can also skip the ending credits of a program and go on to watch the next program you want. In 8 years of having TiVo I have used the pause to get a really good look at a frame of a program 10 or so times and used it the other 1000 times to answer the phone/get a drink/go to..well you get the idea. If this new pause thing helps TiVo at all bringing in more income, that can only help me in the long run as it makes TiVo stronger.


----------



## geekspice_ny (Apr 20, 2009)

lessd said:


> +1
> I think you got it correct but some people do think that if you pay you should get no ads. Think of how nuts people would go if HBO started putting ads in their programs/movies. TiVos main job is to time shift your TV programs and reduce the time you have to spend when an ad does appear in your program, you can also skip the ending credits of a program and go on to watch the next program you want. In 8 years of having TiVo I have used the pause to get a really good look at a frame of a program 10 or so times and used it the other 1000 times to answer the phone/get a drink/go to..well you get the idea. If this new pause thing helps TiVo at all bringing in more income, that can only help me in the long run as it makes TiVo stronger.


If TiVo needs more income, they should give their subscribers the option to pay extra for an ad-free experience. The entire point of a TiVo for many people is to reduce their exposure to irritating and idiotic TV ads. This new feature is intrusive and obnoxious, and I was seriously considering cancelling my TiVo service and going with a different DVR after reading a few posts. I have tried the SPS feature and that seems to have rid me of the annoyance, and I never had much use for the progress bar anyway. But I can easily see how other users don't like these stealthy obnoxious "enhancements" that detract from their viewing experience. Those of us who don't like this kind of nonsense need to keep posting our complaints if we don't want the encroachment to continue.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I'll admit I've used the "More Info" once or twice, but I do not like that it displays by default. It should be off by default and the user should need to press up to show it. Either that or have it default to on and then _remember_ if the user turned it off and not show it again until the user turns it back on.

As for why people don't like this? It's because it requires the user to take an action that up to this point the user was not taking. This is the main difference between this and the other ads that have been added. All the other ads can be passively ignored as they don't interfere with the operation of the TiVo. In group ads interfering with skip to end functionality is an exception, but I rarely run into that.

The pause menu can only be "actively ignored". It's large enough that it blocks part of the screen and I've already run into a few cases where I paused a show to look at something which was blocked by the "More Info" button, but not the progress bar. This forced me to take a 2nd action of pressing the down arrow. And this wasn't even with a "pause ad", just the "more info" button.

Not only that, but the times I did use the "More Info" button it took a while for the search screen to load. If the search screen never loads, which happens occasionally, then the user is forced to use the TiVo button to break out. The user then has to navigate back to the program to continue watching it.

So basically the "More Info" menu has two strikes against it:
1. It's annoying/distracting to those who don't want to use it.
2. It's inefficient for those who do want to use it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> This is the main difference between this and the other ads that have been added. All the other adds can be passively ignored as they don't interfere with the operation of the TiVo. In group ads interfering with skip to end functionality is an exception, but I rarely run into that.


Ads?!?

Am I missing something? I haven't seen any ads here...if they're forcing ads, then I can see why people are upset.


----------



## jeffy1988 (Feb 4, 2008)

jrm01 said:


> I keep a list of 100 things I would like to see changed with TiVo. This just made my list. It is number 97.


What are the other 96 things?


----------



## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

AbMagFab said:


> I swear that this board is increasingly overrun with anti-Tivo folks from competing companies, trying to accomplish something they never will...


You may be right, but I think there are more and more longtime Tivo supporters who are just getting tired of being increasingly marginalized by Tivo, Inc. I am one of those people. I'm not saying that Tivo isn't the best thing available. I still think it is. But their lead is narrowing. And I am growing tired of seeing new "features" that are, to me, useless, while bugs seemingly never get fixed. What things? Off the top of my head, how about the resolution information that shows you the resolution of the PREVIOUS channel? How about the times where backing out of a group puts you in a different Now Playing location? How about how sometimes, if you accidentally go into one of the menus that runs some web app, and try to back out of it, the Tivo becomes unresponsive for 30 seconds or more? How about Tivo HDs that need to be tuned periodically to an analog channel to avoid gray screen problems? How about the 3 or 4 new Tivo HDs that I had to return because they locked up, gave gray screens, rebooted, etc? The Closed Captions that stay on when turned off (until you pause, replay, to take some other action).

And I'm not even on to the new ads on the box, or the items from recorded shows that require an additional level of menu to reach. Or the lack of QAM channel mapping.

OK, perhaps I sound bitter.  But really, I'm just frustrated. Tivo is treading water. The sky is not falling, but I do get nervous when I can no longer call Tivo's core functionality "bulletproof" as I did a few years ago.

I do hope Tivo Series 4 can save the day.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

blacknoi said:


> I hope Tivo is keeping track of who pushes "down" to hide this annoying new thing.
> 
> This way they can see I hide it EVERY time it shows up.
> 
> Let me opt out, please?!?!?


It's a place holder for ads. So them letting you opt out is about as likely as them letting you opt out of the ads in TiVo Central, or Now Playing, or the end of recordings, or anyplace else that you find ads in the interface.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ads?!?
> 
> Am I missing something? I haven't seen any ads here...if they're forcing ads, then I can see why people are upset.


They only show up on certain shows. Probably when someone pays for placement on specific shows. Like marketing "Horton Hears A Who" to kids watching Sesame Street.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

nrc said:


> It's a place holder for ads. So them letting you opt out is about as likely as them letting you opt out of the ads in TiVo Central, or Now Playing, or the end of recordings, or anyplace else that you find ads in the interface.


And here's the proof!








:down::down::down:


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

jrm01 said:


> That means 3 extra key strokes each week.


And you're seriously complaining about this? For real?

Come on people, Tivo is a business, like any other. And frankly, their approach to generating more revenue for themselves has continuously been very unobtrusive.

If you like Tivo, don't you want them to survive? If so, give them a little room please.

But seriously - complaining about a pop-up box on pause, or a distractingly red icon on the NPL - these just seem like completely trivial complaints, pushed out by people with some other agenda.

Yes, they're trivial, objectively. There's really not much opinion here, they are simply trivial changes with minimal-to-no impact. The level of complaining is completely out of line with the changes made.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Ads?!?
> 
> Am I missing something? I haven't seen any ads here...if they're forcing ads, then I can see why people are upset.


Here's an example of an ad (gold star) from Dave Zatz's blog:


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

morac said:


> Here's an example of an ad (gold star) from Dave Zatz's blog:


Well, no, that's an example of how you can go to an ad if you choose.

But that's an old argument...


----------



## Laserfan (Apr 25, 2000)

My six bits after seeing this for the first time yesterday: If you don't have a high-speed internet connection (and that includes me) and you aren't opted-in for Swivel Search and whatever else the 'net offers you with Tivo, then you ought not to see this pop-up, because you've already opted-out of that stuff!!!!!??!!!??


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jrm01 said:


> ... That means 3 extra key strokes each week....


Wow....that's just awful....


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> And you're seriously complaining about this? For real?....


For crying out loud, he was JOKING. Hence the comment it was 97th on his list.



AbMagFab said:


> ...Yes, they're trivial, objectively. There's really not much opinion here, they are simply trivial changes with minimal-to-no impact. The level of complaining is completely out of line with the changes made.


THIS we can agree on.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> And you're seriously complaining about this? For real?
> 
> Come on people, Tivo is a business, like any other. And frankly, their approach to generating more revenue for themselves has continuously been very unobtrusive.


Their approach to generating more revenue has not only been obtrusive it is growing more and more so with each iteration.



AbMagFab said:


> If you like Tivo, don't you want them to survive? If so, give them a little room please.


I'm a customer. I'm paying TiVo to service ME. It is not my goal in life to help them survive. 


AbMagFab said:


> But seriously - complaining about a pop-up box on pause, or a distractingly red icon on the NPL - these just seem like completely trivial complaints, pushed out by people with some other agenda.


My agenda is to enjoy this product I pay dearly for without having that enjoyment crapped all over by the company I am paying.


AbMagFab said:


> Yes, they're trivial, objectively. There's really not much opinion here, they are simply trivial changes with minimal-to-no impact. The level of complaining is completely out of line with the changes made.


On the contrary it is all opinion. And opinion is what sells or doesn't sell most products -- including TiVo.


----------



## eelton (Jun 10, 2001)

If you use a remote that can be programmed for macros, you can get rid of the "extras" prompt. I have a Philips Pronto TSU9600, and I just set the pause button to always send a page down command after the pause.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Bierboy said:


> Wow....that's just awful....


Hey Mr Sarcastic, i might not being using those keystrokes to renew, if things get any worse.


----------



## fred2 (Jan 20, 2006)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Well, no, that's an example of how you can go to an ad if you choose.
> 
> But that's an old argument...


NO. That is an AD. It is already an AD for Subzero. You can get more AD by clicking on it but as it stands (or pauses), that is an AD.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

fred2 said:


> NO. That is an AD. It is already an AD for Subzero. You can get more AD by clicking on it but as it stands (or pauses), that is an AD.


Oh, man, do you really want to start this one up again?

Especially when you're so wrong?!?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Videodrome said:


> is your service FREE, because if it is? how do i switch to that type of service ?


Do you pay for extended cable? ESPN and ALL the rest of those channels have commercials- no? At least the RSNs are included in that tier now- remember when you had to pay extra just for them in the late 80s and then they had the stones to put ads on too?

You ever pay for a sporting event or a concert- theres ads all over the arena.

Have you purchased a DVD or Blueray Disc, or paid (an arm and a leg) to go to a movie lately? Did the bastards put previews in front of the content you paid for?

I see the point that people dont like all the new ads. But the constant Im paying so I shouldnt have any ads argument is WEAK in this day and age. Complain about the slippery slope, the crapifying of the UI, the decrease in user friendliness, but come on- they are lucky not to be bankrupt. They cant seem to hit critical mass with the pricing as is- doubling the service fee or whatever it will take probably drives away too many, so relying on service fees alone has proving for like 10 years now NOT to be enough for them to stay in business.

For crying out loud- US Airways sells you a plane ticket, then has the stones to charge you to check EACH bags, get a decent seat, get ANYTHING to eat, or even to get a pillow. Hope you dont get cold on that plane since they cut the heater back to save fuel because it will cost you another pile of change to get a stinking blanket. Now thats taking advantage.

If you cant stand the ads then quit the service and make sure you tell tivo why.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

lessd said:


> +1
> ... Think of how nuts people would go if HBO started putting ads in their programs/movies. ....


true the movie channels some how have resisted the urge to put ads in between movies (I'd say give it time though...) but like i said above the other 200 or so channels that are in the various pay tiers all have ads.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

back to the meat of the question- I LIKE the feature. Just got it a few days ago and already I've been surfing around with the beta search using it. 

BUT I would agree that piggy backing ads onto it would be rather annoying. If every pause brings up an ad I'm not sure what my opinion would be. Hopefully like all the previous tivo attempts to make more money with ads, they have a hard time selling it. Unfortunately that means no new piles of money for tivo so my monthly fee probably goes up. Maybe we can get lucky and the ratings things makes them tons of money so that the ads and even monthly service fees amount to little for them in the long run and they can cut back on both of those.

Anyway I don't see piles of ads on the main menu, at the ends of shows, at the bottom of my folders, during commercials, or even during tv shows, so I'm not too worried that this is going to over run me anytime soon. I mean if there's not tons of advertisers buying thumbs up for more info ads during content that is being actively played back how many are going to advertise when we pause?


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

wickerbill said:


> I can't stand this "feature". I can't see myself EVER using this crap so why won't TiVo let me disable it permanently? I have never used swivel search or whatever it's trying to direct you to and probably never will. This is when I hate that I can't ignore a software update. My TiVo was working great before this latest change. I hope they wake up and give us a way to turn this off permanently.


If you hate it so much, then CALL up Tivo and tell them. You're just venting here.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

MichaelK said:


> true the movie channels some how have resisted the urge to put ads in between movies (I'd say give it time though...) but like i said above the other 200 or so channels that are in the various pay tiers all have ads.


I actually saw one of those annoying "coming up after this program" bottom of the screen popups on Showtime during the middle of a movie. 
I think that's the first time I ever saw one of those on a premium channel. I already hate them on Discovery, SciFi, etc.


----------



## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

RoyK said:


> Their approach to generating more revenue has not only been obtrusive it is growing more and more so with each iteration.
> 
> I'm a customer. I'm paying TiVo to service ME. It is not my goal in life to help them survive.
> 
> ...


And you are exactly the kind of customer they can do without. I'm sure they'd prefer you just cancel and move on to something you'd be happier with.

For anyone that's been in a services/customer-based business, not all customers are worth keeping. Don't make the mistake of thinking every company wants to keep every customer.

You clearly fall into that category.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> ... And you are exactly the kind of customer they can do without. ....


You mean a customer who isn't mindlessly willing to put up with whatever crap they try to dish out without complaint? Yeah, maybe so. But as I said above doing what might make TiVo happy isn't one of my goals in life.

Its the company that should be concerned with making customers happy -- not vice-versa.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

morac said:


> I actually saw one of those annoying "coming up after this program" bottom of the screen popups on Showtime during the middle of a movie.


Hopefully you complained to Showtime and/or your cable company and/or cancelled Showtime.

I personally would hate them *even more* if it were on a premium channel like that.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

mattack said:


> Hopefully you complained to Showtime and/or your cable company and/or cancelled Showtime.
> 
> I personally would hate them *even more* if it were on a premium channel like that.


I can't technically cancel Showtime since I'm under a 2 year contract which includes HBO, Showtime and Starz. I won't be renewing that part of the contract though as I rarely watch any of those channels.


----------



## robertq (Dec 20, 2005)

I'll sum it up nicely: I've bought my last Tivo.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> Hitting "clear" also clears the screen. But that's not the point. The point is these stupid ads are overrunning the UI.
> 
> The little star ads at the bottom of the groups are annoying too. A lot of time I will go into a group, hit channel down to get to the oldest episode and as soon as I hit play the little ad will appear and force the selection to jump up one (not sure why) which in turn causes it to play the wrong episode.
> 
> ...


Yeah. It's pissing me off more and more. Most of the time when I pause it's because I'm trying to see something in better detail. I'm getting sick of that stupid "blue weenie" getting in the way all the damn time now. I wish you could default to it at least being "down" and out of the way. Granted you only have to do it once per show, but it's still annoying as hell. :down:


----------



## jasonander (Jan 9, 2005)

I really don't care for this feature either. When I pause it's because I want to see something on the screen, like a detail in LOST or to read the vanity card at the end of Big Bang Theory. The useless More Info button obscures it and is annoying. I didn't like the Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select hack because I like having the progress bar while fast-forwarding. So I created a new sequence on my Harmony One remote that sends Pause and then DirectionDown, and then assigned it to the pause button. Problem solved.


----------



## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

In my mind these are like popups on your computer that some websites generate. Some of you say "who cares its just a pop up" while others say "I want to install a pop up blocker" or "I dont want to visit site anymore



bareyb said:


> Most of the time when I pause it's because I'm trying to see something in better detail.


Me too. A popup on the TiVo annoys me just as much as a popup on the PC.



RoyK said:


> Its the company that should be concerned with making customers happy -- not vice-versa.


I agree with this



eelton said:


> If you use a remote that can be programmed for macros, you can get rid of the "extras" prompt.


Thats a cool idea!


----------



## Nugent (Jan 20, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> Do you pay for extended cable?


I used to, but I don't any more.



MichaelK said:


> If you cant stand the ads then quit the service and make sure you tell tivo why.


There is tipping point, and TiVo may reach it.


----------



## lhntx (Sep 11, 2007)

I get that new info bar, too, as of last Monday's update. I looked at the extra info once - boring stuff that didn't tell me much and wasn't worth the time, but it's possible that I MIGHT want to look at it for some show one day. The problem, is that if I turn if OFF, it does not STAY off. Incidentally, Mondays update also changed the entire local cable company lineup for HD channels from 3xx channel numbers to 6xx channel numbers. It also was nice enough to change all of my season passes, too. The only problem - the channel lineup isn't going to happen for ANOTHER WEEK, so this week has been a nightmare of trying to manually record all of my shows (no way to auto it since tivo no longer has info on the 3xx channels) as TIVO is also trying to record on the 6xx channels that don't exist yet. Fun fun fun!


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

Mixed feelings here. I kinda like the "more about" button direct link to Tivo search. Then I saw an ad and was dissapointed. One of the reasons I switched to TiVo is the ComCast DVR guide now only shows FIVE channels/page due to 30&#37; of the available area filled with ads.

While the more about ads are not a deal breaker for me, I am starting to feel that it may only be a matter of time before TiVo puts too much crap on the screen and it will be time to move on to something else. Here's hoping TiVo will not let that happen.


----------



## jeffw_00 (Sep 19, 2000)

These are like banner ads. eventually everyone will tune them out, but Tivo will make $ until the advertisers realize it.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

jeffw_00 said:


> These are like banner ads. eventually everyone will tune them out, but Tivo will make $ until the advertisers realize it.


I'm already getting a little more used to it... I've gotten to the point that the first thing I do when I watch a new program is hit the pause and down arrow. Then at least I know it's gone for an hour.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

jeffw_00 said:


> These are like banner ads. eventually everyone will tune them out, but Tivo will make $ until the advertisers realize it.


No, everybody will NOT tune them out.:down::down::down::down::down::down:


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

I hit pause today, and in addition to "more about xxxxx" I also got that lap band (lose weight with relize band) ad thats appearing in the "now playing" also showing up first, then above it, it shows the "more about xxxx." I could press down to hide both, or press up to move up to the "more about" selection.

So the official pause ads have begun.

I was watching Criminal Minds at the time.


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

So your saying the default selection was to go to the ad. I have yet to see that (my more info button seems always to be the default). What next... every time you go to Tivo central the ad is the default selection? 

I'd like to see Tivo survive.. but they won't if they put off there current subscriber base.

I am ok with the ads... but as soon as they start requiring me additional button presses to avoid them I may start to look elsewhere.


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

solutionsetc said:


> So your saying the default selection was to go to the ad. I have yet to see that (my more info button seems always to be the default). What next... every time you go to Tivo central the ad is the default selection?
> 
> I'd like to see Tivo survive.. but they won't if they put off there current subscriber base.
> 
> I am ok with the ads... but as soon as they start requiring me additional button presses to avoid them I may start to look elsewhere.


Yes, the ad was selected by default.

I had to hit UP to select the swivel search.


----------



## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

I got the same *spam* when I paused E.T. tonight
This was the first time I saw it and I watch Tivo every day.
Does Tivo report back my weight and suggest ads accordingly? Sounds like big brother


----------



## bigray327 (Apr 14, 2000)

solutionsetc said:


> I'd like to see Tivo survive.. but they won't if they put off there current subscriber base.


+1. TiVo should make more money by suing the myriad companies that are infringing on their copyrights, instead of nickel-and-diming their customer base.


----------



## Shado1 (Mar 28, 2009)

jjeff said:


> I got the same *spam* when I paused E.T. tonight
> This was the first time I saw it and I watch Tivo every day.
> Does Tivo report back my weight and suggest ads accordingly? Sounds like big brother


I resemble that remark


----------



## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

Has anyone else noticed the *spam* is program dependent? It was on E.T. this evening but not on CSI. Even after I deleted E.T. and then recovered it the *spam* would pop up after pausing. No other shows in my _now playing_ list would do this when paused...As noted after dismissing the notice with the down arrow key it wouldn't come back when paused, at least for that program.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

jasonander said:


> I really don't care for this feature either. When I pause it's because I want to see something on the screen, like a detail in LOST or to read the vanity card at the end of Big Bang Theory.


Funny thing is, the 'regular' time/pause bar gets in my way too. As much as I hate hate hate normal bugs, the scrolling ticker on *news* stations (e.g. CNN) can be useful... So when I'm ffing through 30 minutes of buffered up CNN, the normal bar gets in the way of the info about what story is being talked about..

and I have to hit cancel to get rid of that to read the vanity card too.. so again, while I don't like it either, it seems to be in the way _exactly_ as much as it was before.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I'm hoping that TiVo is keeping metrics on what percentage of users press the down arrow to hide the pause menu and how often (or how quickly) they do so.


----------



## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

morac said:


> I'm hoping that TiVo is keeping metrics on what percentage of users press the down arrow to hide the pause menu and how often (or how quickly) they do so.


They already collect the info,,, the question is whether they will parse it the right way to see this information

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=424195


----------



## hakamarob (May 1, 2002)

I've got to say, after seeing the quality of advertisers tivo is getting, i would not be surprised if the next gold star was an offer from a deposed nigerian king. or maybe there will be a an offer to "k33p it up all n1ght w/ch3ap blu3 p1lls"


----------



## bsoft (May 19, 2001)

You know, ***** all you want.

The TiVo HD is still:

The only CableCard-based DVR I can buy for a reasonable price (my TiVo HD was $180)
Cheaper per month than the Comcast DVR, even with CableCard fees ($13.75 total vs. $15)
Faster, easier to use, and more reliable than the Comcast DVR
Upgradable to 500GB for cheap (I had a WD5000AAKS sitting around), unlike the Comcast DVR

So, yeah, OK. I don't like the ads either. But the Comcast DVR has annoying ads in the guide, which only shows 4 programs at a time (because of said annoying ads). And the Comcast DVR is a total piece of garbage in just about every regard.

About the only thing that's better on the Comcast DVR is "On Demand", but I honestly don't care about the 1000 old B-movies they have. I have Netflix for that.

If I could use Media Center with CableCards, I would (technically, you can, but it requires 'certified' hardware that costs thousands of dollars). If the Comcast DVR were better, I would probably just use that. If I could get Dish or DirecTV (I'm in an apartment), I would have one of those instead.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

hakamarob said:


> I've got to say, after seeing the quality of advertisers tivo is getting, i would not be surprised if the next gold star was an offer from a deposed nigerian king. or maybe there will be a an offer to "k33p it up all n1ght w/ch3ap blu3 p1lls"


ROFL!


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

I agree with you that Tivo is the more mature and feature rich device. I just don't want it's interface to end up looking like a porn site web page. If everyone is ok with the ads now, you can be assured there will be more later.

If many here "*****" (express their distaste) about cluttering the interface with ads, Tivo may think twice about adding more.


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

Complaining about having to press clear is a new low in viewer laziness. In my day we had to get up and walk across the room to change the channel or adjust the volume, uphill in a snowstorm!


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

ciper said:


> They already collect the info,,, the question is whether they will parse it the right way to see this information
> 
> http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=424195


I know they already keep metrics about what people watch. What I was saying is I hope they keep track of how often people hide the pause menu. I'm afraid that if they see that everyone is hiding it, instead of taking that as a hint, they might make it unhideable.


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

pdhenry said:


> Complaining about having to press clear is a new low in viewer laziness. In my day we had to get up and walk across the room to change the channel or adjust the volume, uphill in a snowstorm!


It is not about laziness... it is about something nice, crapped up with ads.

In this day and age, we are inundated with it. We keep ignoring it, so they keep putting more of it in front of our face, in our mailbox, and on our computer.

You have a Tivo, right!? Do you use it to skip through ads?


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

pdhenry said:


> Complaining about having to press clear is a new low in viewer laziness. In my day we had to get up and walk across the room to change the channel or adjust the volume, uphill in a snowstorm!


Aren't we allowed to NOT like the new ads, just as much as you are allowed to like them or be indifferent about it?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

blacknoi said:


> Aren't we allowed to NOT like the new ads, just as much as you are allowed to like them or be indifferent about it?


In a word?

**!


----------



## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

I forgot to add:

"...and get off my Lawn!"


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

MichaelK said:


> true the movie channels some how have resisted the urge to put ads in between movies (I'd say give it time though...) but like i said above the other 200 or so channels that are in the various pay tiers all have ads.


Except of course, every second between movies is an ad for another program on that channel.

Ads are ads.

-smak-


----------



## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

I'll put this simply:

So far, I've bought and lifetimed five Series 2's and three Series 3's (originals, not HD's). I obviously love my TiVos.

At this point, however, with the obvious focus now being on satisfying advertisers and not customers...

I will absolutely not, under any circumstances, buy a Series 4, no matter what clever name they give it. I cannot defy TiVo by canceling my existing subs, since they're lifetime, but I can speak by never giving them another dollar.

Knock it off with the ads, TiVo. Find another way. Your foot is really starting to bleed, and you don't seem to realize you have a smoking gun aimed at it. That blood you see? That's the money you won't get from me, when I would otherwise have upgraded to three lifetimed Series 4 units in a year or two. I doubt I'm alone. Consider your future.

(Let the _ad hominem_ attacks begin...)


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Aiken said:


> ...
> 
> At this point, however, with the obvious focus now being on satisfying advertisers and not customers...
> 
> ... [/SIZE]


exactly the last 100 things in a row they added were all about advertisers!

oh wait....

ahh- what hte hey- lets ignore the facts and creat a lynch mob!

all kidding aside- they have been adding more and more advertiser features over the years but i dont think anymore so then in the past- the thing is that as they add more and more users things they add more and more ad things and so now there are a lot of features and a LOT of ad stuff..

but i dont think they are all ad development all the time.


----------



## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

*shrug*

If I think it's obvious that they're focused on ads, and if what I think affects whether I buy anything from TiVo in the future, then that's all that matters.

My subjective experience is that TiVo is now focused on its partners and not on us. My response to that subjective experience will directly affect TiVo's bottom line. If TiVo ignores that, then it better have enough ad revenue to replace the money I won't be spending.

If the Series 4 is as expensive as I'm betting it will be, that could easily be $2000-$3000 they're losing out on, including subscription fees. I'm not sure what their profit in that is, but I can't imagine the money they get by telling advertisers they have my eyes right now is comparable.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Aiken said:


> *shrug*
> 
> If I think it's obvious that they're focused on ads, and if what I think affects whether I buy anything from TiVo in the future, then that's all that matters.
> 
> ...


well considering the best they have EVER done on hardware is break even (most times loosing scads of money on the box themselves or the subsidies to get people to buy them)- and the 13 bucks a month has never really covered their expenses I agree that advertisers dont compare to your sub- advertisers MIGHT actually make them money.

Doesn't mean i like it - but ignoring the reality doesn't change it at all.

that said partners aren't all bad. Youtupe, Netflix, amazon, rhapsody, are all partners and forced tivo to add some serious underlying stuff that can benefit us all and also the partner features aren't all that uncool in and of themselves.

tivo (beta) search is another example- looks like a way for them to inject pretty graphic adds into the guide- but it's a big improvement in many people's eyes too.

Even this horrible "annoying feature" has an upside to some. Myself i enjoy the "more info" part of it- and i am not the only one. The Ad part i like not so much. But the reality is I woudn't have gotten the "more info" but without the ads - i understand that- and not defending it.


----------



## noads123 (Apr 25, 2009)

DIY PC based alternative is looking better. And that way can upgrade 500 expander to 1 TB.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Aiken said:


> I'll put this simply:
> 
> So far, I've bought and lifetimed five Series 2's and three Series 3's (originals, not HD's). I obviously love my TiVos.
> 
> ...


Wow...someone needs a hug...


----------



## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Aiken said:


> I cannot defy TiVo by canceling my existing subs, since they're lifetime, but I can speak by never giving them another dollar.


There are those that say the only way to impact TiVo is to 'cancel your service if you don't like it'.
Of course those of us with lifetime service can't really do this.
I'm certainly not going to instantly stop using a functional piece of equipment.

As far as this "feature" is concerned, solutionsetc summed it up nicely:


> ... it is about something nice, crapped up with ads.


It's like you just washed your car and it's nice and shiny, then a flock of pigeons fly over and release their excrement.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

steve614 said:


> ....It's like you just washed your car and it's nice and shiny, then a flock of pigeons fly over and release their excrement.


hahahahahaha...thanks, I got my laugh for the day.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

noads123 said:


> DIY PC based alternative is looking better. And that way can upgrade 500 expander to 1 TB.


Please post a link to the DIY alternative to CableCARDs.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

solutionsetc said:


> You have a Tivo, right!? Do you use it to skip through ads?


We do use our TiVos to skip through ads but that was not the reason that we purchased our TiVos (June 2000 for our first Series 1). Our reason was to allow us to record shows and let us watch them on our schedule and not on the network's schedule (and to eliminate the stack of VCR tapes with little sticky notes on them in front of the TV!). Skipping commercials and pausing live TV were icing on the cake although skipping commercials was just an extension of what we were already doing with VCR tapes.

Time-shifting shows is still the primary reason we own a TiVo (2 Series 3 units now).

Scott


----------



## maggie2101 (Feb 22, 2003)

I'm not one to complain much about anything, but this ad on pause business sucks. I've been happy with my Tivo service since 2003 and now I am annoyed. :down::down::down: Oh, and the stupid blue bar things sucks too.


----------



## visionary (May 31, 2006)

I see an ad on pause with a gold star that says "Realize you need to put a band in your stomach". I mean, that is one strange ad, anyone else seeing it? 

What a strange place to try to make music, and you'd sure have a belly ache and not even be able to hear it clearly, and how would one swallow the instruments, even if small ones, or is it some kind of ipod player or what??? What does the playing? How in the devil do you connect the headphones, or download new music? Need to swallow batteries for this?? No way!

So what does one do with this gold star ad? I can't select and click on it, there is no mouse. Am I supposed to see more of the ad someplace? Does the star refer to a key I don't know about on the remote or what?


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

HerronScott said:


> We do use our TiVos to skip through ads but that was not the reason that we purchased our TiVos (June 2000 for our first Series 1). Our reason was to allow us to record shows and let us watch them on our schedule and not on the network's schedule (and to eliminate the stack of VCR tapes with little sticky notes on them in front of the TV!). Skipping commercials and pausing live TV were icing on the cake although skipping commercials was just an extension of what we were already doing with VCR tapes.
> 
> Time-shifting shows is still the primary reason we own a TiVo (2 Series 3 units now).
> 
> Scott


Sorry Scott... but I just don't buy it. How many recorded shows do you watch on your Tivo(s) that you *do not* skip ads on?

I am beginning to think TiVo crossed a line here. With sports... I do consider pausing (as well as slow-mo, RW, FF, replay, and advance) as being part of the watching of my program. TiVo has now chosen to display an ad in the watching of my program. Yes this first step is somewhat innocuous, but since advertising is always of the mind set that if some is ok, more will be added, I am taking this opportunity now to tell Tivo that even the existing ads I see pop up when watching a program are not ok. And if I see more, I will wait until my initial commitment is up (and if they're still there), will move to a competitive product that does not force me to see additional ads while watching a program.

BTW, I was ok with the ads in the interface that did not pop up when watching shows.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> ...TiVo has now chosen to display an ad in the watching of my program....


No they haven't. If you were watching the program, it wouldn't be paused.


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

Bierboy said:


> No they haven't. If you were watching the program, it wouldn't be paused.


TiVo marketing states that "pause" is clearly part of the program watching experience... in not only recorded programs, but (primarily) live TV as well.


----------



## rubley (Apr 26, 2009)

This is part of their "boiling the frog" strategy. I've been a customer since 2000, and the service has only gone down hill (aside from HD recording). Tivo is seriously miscalculating what their customers will put up with. I can use Verizon's DVR for less, and I think soon I will be.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

solutionsetc said:


> TiVo marketing states that "pause" is clearly part of the program watching experience... in not only recorded programs, but (primarily) live TV as well.


...and, of course, we ALL believe marketers....


----------



## lrhorer (Aug 31, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Please post a link to the DIY alternative to CableCARDs.


I don't have a link, but my library comes to mind. I already refuse to watch network TV because it is ad based. My old friends Poe, Shakespeare, Hawthorne, Longfellow, Asimov, Heinlein, et al are always waiting patiently on my shelf - completely sans ads.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

rubley said:


> This is part of their "boiling the frog" strategy. I've been a customer since 2000, and the service has only gone down hill (aside from HD recording). Tivo is seriously miscalculating what their customers will put up with. I can use Verizon's DVR for less, and I think soon I will be.


Thats a very good point, I know Samsung is releasing a DVR soon, so that might be my next choice. I think in another year moxi will be good enough alternative.


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

solutionsetc said:


> Sorry Scott... but I just don't buy it. How many recorded shows do you watch on your Tivo(s) that you *do not* skip ads on?


You don't have to believe me as to our reasons for owning the TiVo and that time-shifting is why we purchased it. I did say that we do skip ads in the prior post.

So skipping ads is the primary reason that you own a DVR?

Scott


----------



## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

For me time shifting is the #1 reason to own a DVR, followed closely by being able to skip past the ads. If the Tivo HD didn't allow the later I'd still be using SD DVDRs or even VCRs. HD is a nice icing on the cake.


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

HerronScott said:


> So skipping ads is the primary reason that you own a DVR?
> 
> Scott


Hard to say Scott. I watch more shows than I ever would without one, so obviously time shifting is something I use. But even time-shifted I do not have the patience to sit through 4 minutes of (mostly bad and repetitive) commercials every 8 minutes. I get up to do something else and rarely return in time to enjoy the show.

Even with live sports events I usually get up and do something else when the first long break airs, pausing the unit, and getting back to it in 10 or twenty minutes so that there is enough buffer to skip the rest of the upcoming garbage.

I can pretty confidently say that if I had a choice of just timeshifting with no fast forward vs: just skipping commercials of live shows I would choose the latter. Then I could at least enjoy the shows I have time to sit down and watch.


----------



## z_fisherww (Apr 26, 2009)

mp11 said:


> I'm hopeing one of these updates removes the "HD recordings" folder in the(what I consider), cluttered playlist. I mean how meaningless is that anyway? And not far behind that is the "deleted programs folder". That one I can understand having...but just place it elsewhere.


I strongly agree with those who think "Recently Deleted" is a GOOD thing for three reasons:
1. I can delete a show without worrying about whether someone else might want to watch it. If yes, just pull it back out.
2. The number and type of shows in Recently Deleted is an excellent measure of how much space is left. My TivoHD only has 20 hours of HD, so it's easy to fill up. When I see the number of programs in Recently Deleted getting small, I know I'm running low on space.
3. The "oops" factor. Everyone makes a mistake once in a while.

And, it's out of the way, always at the bottom of the list.

Re: the press for more info when paused, it would make more sense if it were actually related to the specific show you were watching. For example, it would be nice if you got Utube about stories on the news broadcast you are watching, and not just generic based on the program title. Maybe in the future...


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

z_fisherww said:


> I strongly agree with those who think "Recently Deleted" is a GOOD thing for three reasons:
> 1. I can delete a show without worrying about whether someone else might want to watch it. If yes, just pull it back out.
> 2. The number and type of shows in Recently Deleted is an excellent measure of how much space is left. My TivoHD only has 20 hours of HD, so it's easy to fill up. When I see the number of programs in Recently Deleted getting small, I know I'm running low on space.
> 3. The "oops" factor. Everyone makes a mistake once in a while.


I couldn't agree more. The "Recently Deleted" folder goes hand-in-hand with the single-click delete (CLEAR) function.

People asked again and again for the ability to single-click delete, and the RD folder prevents someone in the household from accidentally using that feature to [permanently] delete recordings.


----------



## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Please post a link to the DIY alternative to CableCARDs.


I'm not going to take the time to search, and post a link, but there is at least one (expensive) PC tuner card that accepts cable cards.



Bierboy said:


> No they haven't. If you were watching the program, it wouldn't be paused.


Some people would argue the thumbs up promotion pop up during Celebrity Apprentice is such an ad.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> People asked again and again for the ability to single-click delete, and the RD folder prevents someone in the household from accidentally using that feature to [permanently] delete recordings.


Okay, this is getting off-topic for this thread title, but ...

There is a serious bug (others would say stupid implementation) of the RD folder. With the bug, RD is OK for "oops I just deleted the wrong thing" but totally fails if another person in the household wants to rescue a recording a few hours after it was accidentally deleted.

The bug is that stuff is apparently cleared out of RD based on original recording date, not based on when it was actually deleted from Now Playing and thereby added to RD. So the moment the TiVo needs space to record a new program, *bam!* the oldest recorded program is removed from RD.

This is such fundamental bozoness (is that a word?) that it has once again set off my ranting about outsourced Apu in Bangalore writing TiVo's software. My main complaint is that Apu isn't an employee and also he has no way of actually using the product. To me that means Apu doesn't very much care about the subtleties of how the TiVo works (if you're utterly bored, you can search my recent posts for details about how my rant about Apu isn't intended as racism).

In summary, I like RD better than no-RD, I want to keep it, but it could easily have been *so much better* that it can (almost) bring a grown man to tears!


----------



## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

lew said:


> I'm not going to take the time to search, and post a link, but there is at least one (expensive) PC tuner card that accepts cable cards.QUOTE]
> 
> The ATI TV Wonder Digital Tuner card -http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonderdigital/partners.html. You could only buy it with a qualified PC and I believe also had to have them come in and configure it for you if I recall the reviews correctly.
> 
> ...


----------



## z_fisherww (Apr 26, 2009)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> The bug is that stuff is apparently cleared out of RD based on original recording date, not based on when it was actually deleted from Now Playing and thereby added to RD. So the moment the TiVo needs space to record a new program, *bam!* the oldest recorded program is removed from RD.


That is right! It happened to me this week. Fortunately, I use Tivo Desktop to back up important shows to my PC, so I was able to get the show back.

If anyone from Tivo is reading this, here is a suggestion: modify the RD folder to remove first the program that was DELETED longest ago.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> There is a serious bug (others would say stupid implementation) of the RD folder. With the bug, RD is OK for "oops I just deleted the wrong thing" but totally fails if another person in the household wants to rescue a recording a few hours after it was accidentally deleted.


I've actually had it fail on a "oops I just deleted the wrong thing". I deleted something and went to check the RD for it about a minute later and it was already gone.


----------



## solutionsetc (Apr 2, 2009)

z_fisherww said:


> That is right! It happened to me this week. Fortunately, I use Tivo Desktop to back up important shows to my PC, so I was able to get the show back.
> 
> If anyone from Tivo is reading this, here is a suggestion: modify the RD folder to remove first the program that was DELETED longest ago.


This is a good suggestion and you should offer it up to tivo through official channels (either the feature request forum here or the tivo web site).


----------



## z_fisherww (Apr 26, 2009)

solutionsetc said:


> This is a good suggestion and you should offer it up to tivo through official channels (either the feature request forum here or the tivo web site).


Will do. Thanks for the tips on how to report suggestions.


----------



## Kerry (Apr 24, 2002)

I just found a new HD DVR called MeVO. It costs $300.00. The monthly subscription costs $14.00. They promise no ads anywhere ever. The graphical interface looks to be near identical to TiVO's. 

NOT!

The point is, notice how little it would take for another company to grab a large percentage of TiVO's subscribers. The market potential is ripe for the picking. Unless TiVo acts upon our objections to ads I'm betting it won't be long before this happens.

If I were TiVo I'd do a survey, one that doesn't reveal one's Service number, to see just what the majority thinks. They could even design a voting website (with stats for us all to see daily) that would give us a sense that TiVO's CEO was in fact listening to us as well as his execs and bean counters. The present communication model, us complaining here, is not satisfying.

Kerry


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Kerry said:


> I just found a new HD DVR called MeVO. It costs $300.00. The monthly subscription costs $14.00. They promise no ads anywhere ever. The graphical interface looks to be near identical to TiVO's.
> 
> NOT!
> 
> ...


oh yeah- really ripe. Ripe to be bankrupt in about 3 weeks. With credit markets as they are, who exactly is going to put up millions of dollars to create a new dvr with a business model that tivo has shown for ~10 years can't make a sustained profit....

Maybe moxi will do something else (and that's where people should probably bring their business if they want to try)- but so far it appears from the various forays that you can't be a mass market DVR and get by with just charging a high enough up front cost (Replay, and the TVGuide OS type DVR's) for the box or a lower up front with a high enough monthly fee (Tivo).


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

Kerry said:


> The point is, notice how little it would take for another company to grab a large percentage of TiVO's subscribers. The market potential is ripe for the picking.


In addition to what MichaelK pointed out, you also omitted the minor detail of *patents.* Charlie has already paid TiVo over $100 million and the war isn't over.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

And just to be clear- my point isn't that tivo is perfect, but that there us a reality here we shouldn't ignore. 

So the ads and content partners aren't going away - so general kvetching is likely to get no response. But if there is some particular practice that is completely disgusting then we should pipe up about it and try to shape things as best we can. 

I think over the years there have been a few flavors of ads that were really "icky" and people complained and tivo backtracked over - pre tivo central ads are one i seem to remember from like WAY back when (so we can hopefully have some input). If people think this is one of the really "icky" instances then complain in specific terms directly to tivo. 

Personally I actually like the new feature and dont think the ads that come along with it are to the level yet that it's worth my effor to complain. But oviously others may think this incarnation is over the top. And they should complain specifically and if they really really hate it, I guess go buy a moxi.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

funny- decided to google about the pre tivo central ads and see if i was dreaming or that was real.

check out this complaint back then:


> I'm already paying them $10 a month for service, why not offer it at $15, ad free?
> posted by mathowie at 8:04 PM on November 15, 2001


http://www.metafilter.com/12396/

so this has conversation has been going on for 7+ years now...


----------



## Kerry (Apr 24, 2002)

It's virtually impossible for us to make intelligent recommendations unless we have access to the books. For example: What's the salary of the CEO? The bennies, etc.? If he has taken a cut like many other CEO's and he has cut back on nice-to-have but non-essential staff positions, then these ads may be the correct answer. My guess is TiVO's CEO is drawing what most subscribers would consider extravagant monthly checks.

Kerry


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Kerry said:


> It's virtually impossible for us to make intelligent recommendations unless we have access to the books. For example: What's the salary of the CEO? The bennies, etc.? If he has taken a cut like many other CEO's and he has cut back on nice-to-have but non-essential staff positions, then these ads may be the correct answer. My guess is TiVO's CEO is drawing what most subscribers would consider extravagant monthly checks.
> 
> Kerry


Since Tivo is publicly traded, it is a matter of public record:
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyOfficers?symbol=TIVO.O&viewId=comp
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=TIVO
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ce?s=TIVO
http://seekingalpha.com/transcripts/for/TIVO
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:TIVO

Although not necessarily modest, Tom Rogers' 6 figure salary is a lot less than some CEOs. And yes, I am a shareholder and a hardware owner (a Series 2 and a Series 3) that pays attention to the company, and would like to see it succeed.


----------



## Kerry (Apr 24, 2002)

Thanks orangeboy.

Kerry


----------



## orangeboy (Apr 19, 2004)

Kerry said:


> Thanks orangeboy.
> 
> Kerry


No problem! 
A wise man asked something of himself that still sticks with me: "What did I do to earn my salary?" At the time, I thought about my own salary, and what/if I actually did to make the company enough money to pay me. Does Tom Rogers bring in adequate money to offset his own compensation? Do any of the Chief <whatever> Officers in major corporations? I think some (very few) do, but I speculate that many don't.

Sorry for going off topic.


----------



## Kerry (Apr 24, 2002)

orangeboy said:


> No problem!
> A wise man asked something of himself that still sticks with me: "What did I do to earn my salary?" At the time, I thought about my own salary, and what, if anything, did I do to make the company enough money to pay me. Does Tom Rogers bring in adequate money to offset his own compensation? Do any of the Chief <whatever> Officers in major corporations? I think some (very few) do, but I speculate that many don't.


 I believe I wrote that in my tutorial for managers. Not. But I agree. It's probably why I run a nonprofit education org. I'm thinking I might be a dormant Communist in that regard. The test is always to ask one's employees, "How would you feel about me increasing my salary?" I'm even in favor of teachers receiving the average of the everyone's salary more about teacher's pay. It doesn't seem fair that a laborer (many former C students) gets twice as much for the same or less time worked. On the other hand, the salaries of teachers perfectly mirror their communication skills. Don't get me started .

Kerry


----------



## Aiken (Feb 17, 2003)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Please post a link to the DIY alternative to CableCARDs.


http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/12/get-a-cablecard-into-your-diy-htpc


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Aiken said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/12/get-a-cablecard-into-your-diy-htpc


that's pretty cool but now that engadget blabbed all over the free world expect cablelabs and MS to institute countermeasures.

the summary is that you run a hack at boot that tricks windows into believing that any pc has the approved bios.


----------



## proudx (Sep 16, 2008)

At first, I figured whats the big deal. But as time has gone on the 1 line more info has turned into two lines with an ad, etc. I'm honestly a bit annoyed by it now.


----------



## dmbpj (Dec 30, 2008)

how do I opt in, so I can see all my stuff online on the TiVo website?


----------



## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

dmbpj said:


> how do I opt in, so I can see all my stuff online on the TiVo website?


I looked forever trying to figure this out. I think what I found was you have to go to "Find Programs" on the menu and choose "TiVo Search". I think you end up agreeing** to something, then it gets enabled. The feature is also still in "beta", so maybe that's another reason for this step. They've done a bad job advertising this capability, but it is still "beta" so maybe that's understandable.

Try this and please report your results here for others....

I sent tivo a note saying these features are great, and how long until we get a central scheduling capability. If all my TiVos are sharing info back to TiVO.com, why not with each other?

** I Think this requires your agreement since it affects privacy in a way, as your data is published out to tivo.com (the shows on your TiVo, for instance).


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

dmbpj said:


> how do I opt in, so I can see all my stuff online on the TiVo website?


I don't think you have to "opt-in" for this; it should be there "automatically" if you have a Series 3 unit. I didn't have to do anything.


----------



## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

Bierboy said:


> I don't think you have to "opt-in" for this; it should be there "automatically" if you have a Series 3 unit. I didn't have to do anything.


This is wrong.

You do.


----------



## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

Pause Down Clear (to hide the option and clear any other controls)
Select Play Select Pause Select (hear three bings)

These pause items will now only appear for a brief flash and vanish. You can still Select them sight unseen however.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ThreeSoFar said:


> I looked forever trying to figure this out. I think what I found was you have to go to "Find Programs" on the menu and choose "TiVo Search". I think you end up agreeing** to something, then it gets enabled. The feature is also still in "beta", so maybe that's another reason for this step. They've done a bad job advertising this capability, but it is still "beta" so maybe that's understandable.
> 
> Try this and please report your results here for others....
> 
> ...


What you have done is signed away your privacy giving TiVo the right to collect, use, and sell your personal viewing statistics. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It does me.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

RoyK said:


> What you have done is signed away your privacy giving TiVo the right to collect, use, and sell your personal viewing statistics. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It does me.


To me this is the most clueless thing TiVo has been doing. Nielsen Research Media makes piles of money from these statistics. In fact they make so much money that they pay people for participating.

But *no*, not TiVo! They collect this data, but they're too incompetent to figure out how to properly monetize it. TiVo should be *paying* people for this information.


----------



## ThreeSoFar (May 24, 2002)

RoyK said:


> What you have done is signed away your privacy giving TiVo the right to collect, use, and sell your personal viewing statistics. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It does me.


Well I feel bad for you.

The tin foil must be terribly difficult to keep tidy.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

ThreeSoFar said:


> Well I feel bad for you.
> 
> The tin foil must be terribly difficult to keep tidy.


Tin foil isn't needed. All that's needed is common sense.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

RoyK said:


> What you have done is signed away your privacy giving TiVo the right to collect, use, and sell your personal viewing statistics. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It does me.


"they" are coming after you....


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

RoyK said:


> Tin foil isn't needed. All that's needed is common sense.


agreed - common sense tells me know one cares that my dvr is full of dora the explorer and that I watch baseball most nights.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ThreeSoFar said:


> The tin foil must be terribly difficult to keep tidy.


Huh???

You just line a regular hat with it. It doesn't make any kind of mess.

It's amazing how effective it can be. I used to get these SPLITTING headaches, but once I started using the tin foil, they just stopped. Turned out the government mind-control signal was slightly misaligned, and that was causing the headaches. But it's important to line an existing hat, and not just make a hat out of tin foil (typical rookie mistake). That way, they can't tell you're blocking their signal. Better still to wear the hat for a few weeks before you line it. That really throws off their detection algorithms.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> "they" are coming after you....


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

RoyK said:


>


 I thought it was rather  
I was just  you
But if you didn't take it that way I am 
life is good :up: dont be so 


I am curious though- do you use a cell phone, electronic toll pass, credit cards, or food store or other club cards? All of those people have WAY MORE information about us and our lives then tivo being aware my daughter likes dora, my wife watches soap opera's, and that I watch baseball and sitcoms. There's piles of ways that people collect info on us all now a days I'm curious if you are worried about all of them or if somehow the tivo collecting your tv habits offends you more somehow?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ThreeSoFar said:


> This is wrong.
> 
> You do.


Then show me or tell me where. I did not.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

RoyK said:


> What you have done is signed away your privacy giving TiVo the right to collect, use, and sell your personal viewing statistics. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It does me.


I'm just curious. What bad thing can happen from letting them know what you watch? I think it would give a much more accurate assessment of what people are watching and not watching over the Neilsen Ratings. I don't see any real danger in it. All they are doing is collecting "aggregate data" it isn't tied specifically to you and even it it were, TiVo Inc. doesn't have my SS#, my DL #, my birthdate or anything else that would be useful for ID theft. Where's the harm?


----------



## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

Phantom Gremlin said:


> To me this is the most clueless thing TiVo has been doing. Nielsen Research Media makes piles of money from these statistics. In fact they make so much money that they pay people for participating.
> 
> But *no*, not TiVo! They collect this data, but they're too incompetent to figure out how to properly monetize it.


What???

TiVo has been monetizing this for several years. They've probably had a dozen agreements by now and are actively going after others. They just expanded their marketing to local channels and networks. They just announced their tracking pool size has tripled. There's been lots of announcements about their statistics and agreements.

Where's your evidence of incompetence?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

bareyb said:


> I'm just curious. What bad thing can happen from letting them know what you watch? I think it would give a much more accurate assessment of what people are watching and not watching over the Neilsen Ratings. I don't see any real danger in it. All they are doing is collecting "aggregate data" it isn't tied specifically to you and even it it were, TiVo Inc. doesn't have my SS#, my DL #, my birthdate or anything else that would be useful for ID theft. Where's the harm?


actually FYI for some things you opt in to ling your viewing to your name and it isn't all aggegated.

so far they only seem to seel aggregated data.

But agreed- so they know I, me specifically, have a box full of Dora, what's the harm?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

CrispyCritter said:


> What???
> 
> TiVo has been monetizing this for several years. They've probably had a dozen agreements by now and are actively going after others. They just expanded their marketing to local channels and networks. They just announced their tracking pool size has tripled. There's been lots of announcements about their statistics and agreements.
> 
> Where's your evidence of incompetence?


I think the point was they generally describe the revenue generated as not material to the company's financial status. So they aren't making tons of money off it.


----------



## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

RoyK said:


> What you have done is signed away your privacy giving TiVo the right to collect, use, and sell your personal viewing statistics. Maybe that doesn't bother you. It does me.


Incorrect. Even when you opt in, TiVo does not provide any personally identifiable viewing statistics to third parties.



> The collection of Personally Identifiable Viewing Information is necessary for the use of certain advanced TiVo features. You will be asked to change your privacy preferences to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information before you can use these advanced features. If you expressly choose to allow TiVo to collect your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information, TiVo may use this information to provide the requested services as well as for surveys, audience measurement, and other legitimate business purposes. However, TiVo will not sell or otherwise disclose your Personally Identifiable Viewing Information to Third Parties (as defined in Section 3.1) without your express consent.


http://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoprivacypolicy.html

The default service agreement permits TiVo to sell your anonymous, aggregated viewing data to third parties. To prevent that you must opt-out entirely.

TiVo needs you to opt-in for TiVo search because their policy is strict enough that they are not otherwise permitted to transmit your personal "To-Do" or "Season Pass" information back to their servers for use delivering server based services (such as TiVo Search).


----------



## steinercat (Nov 16, 2007)

here's a weird bug for you.

randomly...I am unable to move channel up/down from the remote.

this is using the Universal Remote and the TiVo peanut. all other buttons/functions work.

The only way to fix it is by rebooting the THD.


----------



## RoyK (Oct 22, 2004)

nrc said:


> Incorrect. Even when you opt in, TiVo does not provide any personally identifiable viewing statistics to third parties.
> 
> http://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoprivacypolicy.html
> 
> ....


I stand corrected. It seems that TiVo has indeed changed the privacy policy in the last couple of months since I read it last. Prior to that time opting in did, indeed, give TiVo blanket permission to use and disclose personally identifiable information.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

RoyK said:


> I stand corrected. It seems that TiVo has indeed changed the privacy policy in the last couple of months since I read it last. Prior to that time opting in did, indeed, give TiVo blanket permission to use and disclose personally identifiable information.


august 2008 is the change date according to the link


----------



## BJezz (Jan 12, 2009)

Isn't TiVo collecting viewing habits what drives the suggestions database, a TiVo defining feature since the beginning?


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

BJezz said:


> Isn't TiVo collecting viewing habits what drives the suggestions database, a TiVo defining feature since the beginning?


that's locally done on the machine though.

But your anonymous viewing habits are certainly uploaded to tivo as the default.


----------



## BJezz (Jan 12, 2009)

I don't mean working out what you watch, but working out what to suggest. I was always under the impression that suggestions work on the basis that it makes recommendations based on typical TiVo usage, i.e. people who record/watch program A often also record/watch program B. You've recorded program A, so it will record program B as a suggestion.

But I'm happy to be corrected on this if I'm wrong.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

my understanding of suggestions is there is a database on the local machine that has all the guide data attributes. If you thumb up or thumb down a show it ads value to all the attributes of that show in the database. So if you thumb up Frasier then it would think you like sitcoms and you like Kelsey Grammar (sp?). So if it saw another sitcom or another Kelsey Grammar show it might record that. So it might record Cheers. That's all done locally- and you can see it if you had a directivo and unplugged the phone line it would still record suggestions without anyway to get specific info to/from the box to the mother ship.


Now on the info screens and on tivosearch it does something worded like "if you like this" and that I believe comes from a different method- tivo takes all the viewing data uploaded to the mother ship and analyses it and might discover that people that watch Frasier also happened to record This Old House. So maybe it would suggest that even though they are completed difficult to draw parallels. However tivo suggestions would not automatically record that.

I could be wrong too but that&#8217;s my understanding.


----------



## c1b1 (Jun 20, 2009)

I have a banner ad appearing every time I hit the pause button. Called tivo, they explained that they have downloaded an advertising program into my HD unit to allow the ads to appear. They cannot be removed unless I opt out of all broadband programing, such as netflix movie streaming or music etc. I asked why they did not notify users or ask permission to download a program into equipment that I purchased from them in good faith. Explained that that it was a money maker and told me to just not pause live television. Huh?! I discovered that as long as I hit the clear button after I pause the ad disappears along with the green bar. Thinking of getting rid of the unit. Don't have the same issue with my older Series 3 HD.


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

c1b1 said:


> I have a banner ad appearing every time I hit the pause button. Called tivo, they explained that they have downloaded an advertising program into my HD unit to allow the ads to appear. They cannot be removed unless I opt out of all broadband programing, such as netflix movie streaming or music etc. I asked why they did not notify users or ask permission to download a program into equipment that I purchased from them in good faith. Explained that that it was a money maker and told me to just not pause live television. Huh?! I discovered that as long as I hit the clear button after I pause the ad disappears along with the green bar. Thinking of getting rid of the unit. Don't have the same issue with my older Series 3 HD.


HTH posted a work around earlier in the thread. It's not a complete work around but it helps a lot. Makes the Ad disappear very quickly. I kind of like it. It's sort of an "Auto-Clear". Give it a try and see what you think. 


> Pause Down Clear (to hide the option and clear any other controls)
> Select Play Select Pause Select (hear three bings)
> 
> These pause items will now only appear for a brief flash and vanish. You can still Select them sight unseen however.
> 06-03-2009 01:43 PM


----------



## jonnio (Jan 26, 2008)

TiVo, please allow us to suppress the 'More About' menu. It is useless and annoying.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jonnio said:


> TiVo, please allow us to suppress the 'More About' menu. It is useless and annoying.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Bierboy said:


>


Bierboy, can i put my ads on your screen, and when you complain, i will put up this graphic ?


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Videodrome said:


> Bierboy, can i put my ads on your screen, and when you complain, i will put up this graphic ?


Sure!...and they'll disappear just as fast as the ads on my TiVo do now...


----------



## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

jonnio said:


> TiVo, please allow us to suppress the 'More About' menu. It is useless and annoying.


There are at least two different ways to suppress the menu. Both are mentioned throughout this thread.

To save yourself some time searching this thread, see *Using TiVo* FAQ #35.


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

Bierboy said:


> Sure!...and they'll disappear just as fast as the ads on my TiVo do now...


But this will be a new feature, where every minute or so, an ad will popup, plus i will raise the price of service ? What do you think? Sounds good right ?


----------



## Videodrome (Jun 20, 2008)

bkdtv said:


> There are at least two different ways to suppress the menu. Both are mentioned throughout this thread.
> 
> To save yourself some time searching this thread, see *Using TiVo* FAQ #35.


He is looking for the permanent suppression option, if you see it, let us know.


----------



## banjowood (Dec 21, 2007)

ditto!!!!!!


----------



## proudx (Sep 16, 2008)

well not sure if the tivo ad banner caused this, but I noticed a new bug in which pause doesn't hold when switching tuners.

What happens is if you pause one tuner and switch over to the other tuner and come back to the paused tuner video will have advanced a bit but still in the paused state. Keep switching and the video continues to advance well beyond your original paused location. 

Basically Pause does not hold the same frame or part of the show.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin (Jun 20, 2002)

proudx said:


> well not sure if the tivo ad banner caused this, but I noticed a new bug in which pause doesn't hold when switching tuners.
> 
> What happens is if you pause one tuner and switch over to the other tuner and come back to the paused tuner video will have advanced a bit but still in the paused state. Keep switching and the video continues to advance well beyond your original paused location.
> 
> Basically Pause does not hold the same frame or part of the show.


Yes I have also noticed this, but haven't quantified if it always behaves that way or if it's only under specific conditions. It's just one of those minor annoyances that I've mentally tuned out. Weeks or months later they are often quietly fixed by TiVo.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

...and it only moves forward by a second or two in my experience.


----------



## juanian (Oct 2, 2002)

OK, just to put things into perspective . . .

So who is complaining to the TV networks (and some syndication companies) about the pop ups that they include during the broadcast of their programs? I'm talking about those annoying promotions (for upcoming shows and the like), that appear at the bottom of the screen, sometimes with swooping sounds as it moves on and off the screen, covering up a chunk of the screen (and occasionally obscuring something important going on with the show). And no, I'm not talking about a "crawl" (scrolling text that compresses the video to make room for it), even though that *is* annoying in its own right.

I guess Fox is a big network offender on putting stuff on the screen.

How about it -- who's ready to complain about that?


----------



## bareyb (Dec 1, 2000)

juanian said:


> OK, just to put things into perspective . . .
> 
> So who is complaining to the TV networks (and some syndication companies) about the pop ups that they include during the broadcast of their programs? I'm talking about those annoying promotions (for upcoming shows and the like), that appear at the bottom of the screen, sometimes with swooping sounds as it moves on and off the screen, covering up a chunk of the screen (and occasionally obscuring something important going on with the show). And no, I'm not talking about a "crawl" (scrolling text that compresses the video to make room for it), even though that *is* annoying in its own right.
> 
> ...


I'm not. That stuff doesn't bother me for some reason. I guess because it's often advertising upcoming programming that I'm interested in watching. Since I don't watch commercials in the conventional sense anymore, these are often the only "heads up" I get to new stuff. Unlike the pause Ads on TiVo which block my screen with an interactive "button" that will take me nowhere even remotely interesting to me 99% of the time. The "insta-clear" work around has been sufficient enough to make it fairly painless to me now though.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

bareyb said:


> I'm not. That stuff doesn't bother me for some reason. I guess because it's often advertising upcoming programming that I'm interested in watching. Since I don't watch commercials in the conventional sense anymore, these are often the only "heads up" I get to new stuff. Unlike the pause Ads on TiVo which block my screen with an interactive "button" that will take me nowhere even remotely interesting to me 99% of the time. The "insta-clear" work around has been sufficient enough to make it fairly painless to me now though.


Or maybe it just happens so often that your brain automatically tunes it out. That's why networks have to come up with more and more annoying ways to promote their shows.

First it was the channel bug, then it was the little popup text promoting shows. Now there's full animation with sound effects promoting up-coming shows.

Each time the networks change this it annoys me for a while, but then I eventually tune it out. I've actually gotten to the point where I don't even "see" the promos, I mean I "see" them, but they don't really register. There was an episode of Famliy Guy where they had a fake one of these promos and I had to rewind because I "missed" when it started.

So yes they do annoy me, but I've tuned them out. That's harder to do with the "More Info" ads since they are triggered by a user action to pause the show. It's kind of like roadway exit signs on a highway, you don't really pay attention to them unless you are specifically looking for an exit.

At some point I expect the networks to simply just shrink the current show to a tiny box and run ads for upcoming shows, like they do now for breaking news.


----------



## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

proudx said:


> well not sure if the tivo ad banner caused this, but I noticed a new bug in which pause doesn't hold when switching tuners.
> 
> What happens is if you pause one tuner and switch over to the other tuner and come back to the paused tuner video will have advanced a bit but still in the paused state. Keep switching and the video continues to advance well beyond your original paused location.
> 
> Basically Pause does not hold the same frame or part of the show.


I cant say that Ive paid that much attention but I always was under the impression that it always jumped to the nearest I-Frame whenever the streams were switched. I have noticed that under certain conditions you dont get back to the exact same spot. But honestly i never paid that much attention to figure it out.

Now if it jumps more then one time to get to an I-Frame I couldnt figure.


----------



## Blahman (Mar 4, 2002)

proudx said:


> At first, I figured whats the big deal. But as time has gone on the 1 line more info has turned into two lines with an ad, etc. I'm honestly a bit annoyed by it now.


Yeah, I've seen this happenning on all nearly all shows lately. Worse is that isn't even targetted. Some thing make no sense to the show that is being watched or to past viewing history (example Mascara Star Advertisement during a MMA fight).

I could have sworn I also saw a double star listing the other day when my wife paused, but when she paused again it was only a single star.

This crap is getting worse.


----------

