# Does low wifi signal strength cause service connection failures?



## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

Our Roamio built-in wireless signal strength is usually around 65-70%. If you use the built-in wireless to connect to the Tivo service, what is your typical signal strength?

For the past week, our Roamio has been failing to connect to the Tivo service every single day, and I have to manually go in and make it connect, which usually works. Before this, it had been working, for the most part, without issue for close to a year.

I called into Tivo tech support just now to report the problem, and the rep told me that our low signal strength is the problem. However, there have been no changes to our wifi/signal strength/router/tivo locations at all in the past year, and the problem only started occurring in the past week. The only difference I can see is that we got the R21 update recently or possibly the Tivo built-in wireless hardware could be failing.

But the Tivo rep insisted that the problem was being caused by our low signal strength, even though the problem started occurring suddenly in the past week only.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

choco said:


> Our Roamio built-in wireless signal strength is usually around 65-70%. If you use the built-in wireless to connect to the Tivo service, what is your typical signal strength?
> 
> For the past week, our Roamio has been failing to connect to the Tivo service every single day, and I have to manually go in and make it connect, which usually works. Before this, it had been working, for the most part, without issue for close to a year.
> 
> ...


Talking to TiVo CS has been known to cause brain damage.  Can you connect to Amazon and play a trailer? It's free and a good test, especially if you get HD 1080/p24. One problem with WiFi is that it is subject to too many environment changes. I'm sure your box passes the network diagnostics.

One of my Roamios and two Mini boxes are all running from wired to wireless adapters. The internal wireless of a Roamio is not good enough since my router is on a different floor. Also, what channel are you using? I suggest putting the router on channel 1 and reboot the router then TiVo.

Every few hours a TiVo calls home. Do any of those indicate a failure? Check the times of your VCM Connection.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

Yeah, I don't put too much stock into what the Tivo rep said. That's why I was wondering what other's signal strength was. I read about service connection problems with Comcast SF bay area users a month ago, so I was actually wondering if my ISP (Cox) had anything to do with it.

The VCM connection, DNS, and TCP port tests all succeeded. But I just made a successful manual service connection an hour ago, so things are okay at the moment.

If this problem doesn't resolve, I'll probably try plugging into a wireless extender.

I haven't played an Amazon video. I don't use the extras, just the main functionality.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

choco said:


> Yeah, I don't put too much stock into what the Tivo rep said. That's why I was wondering what other's signal strength was. I read about service connection problems with Comcast SF bay area users a month ago, so I was actually wondering if my ISP (Cox) had anything to do with it.
> 
> The VCM connection, DNS, and TCP port tests all succeeded. But I just made a successful manual service connection an hour ago, so things are okay at the moment.
> 
> ...


I use an ASUS EA-N66r on one Roamio. Both Mini boxes use WUMC710 from Linksys, but I have heard their RE6500 is better.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Make sure you are using a wireless channel setting on the router to either channel 1, 6, or 11. Never use the default "Auto" because most of the time it would choose a channel with more interference. Also, make sure devices such as wireless landline phones, microwaves, radios, are kept at least 3 feet away from the router and devices.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

I've used a wifi analyzer in the past to check which channels my neighbors are on, just checked again today to make sure that our router is on the least congested channel, and there's nothing nearby or interfering with our router or Tivo. It's more than just a general wifi troubleshooting issue, but thanks for the tips!

Does anyone actually use the built-in wireless to connect to the Tivo service, or does everyone plug into an extender or use MoCA? It would be nice to get some data on typical Tivo wifi signal strengths to compare to mine if possible.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Yes. I use Channel 11, also the neighboring Wifi SSID, most of them are on channel 11 as well. But, they do not cause me any interference. Perhaps from the WPA2.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

ThAbtO said:


> Yes. I use Channel 11, also the neighboring Wifi SSID, most of them are on channel 11 as well. But, they do not cause me any interference. Perhaps from the WPA2.


What is your Tivo signal % usually at? On a Roamio, it's under Settings & Messages > Settings > Network. I'm not sure what the path is on other models.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

choco said:


> What is your Tivo signal % usually at? On a Roamio, it's under Settings & Messages > Settings > Network. I'm not sure what the path is on other models.


80-95% on both my Roamio and Series 3.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

ThAbtO said:


> 80-95% on both my Roamio and Series 3.


Thanks for the info. Yours is definitely a lot stronger than mine!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

choco said:


> Thanks for the info. Yours is definitely a lot stronger than mine!


I also have a Roku device at the other end of the house and it has no problems on the Wifi. The printer in the same room has a low signal and no issues either.

Make sure your router is using N as well as B and G. If you disabled G and /or B, then you can get issues on weaker signals, they use the lower b/g bands.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

ThAbtO said:


> I also have a Roku device at the other end of the house and it has no problems on the Wifi. The printer in the same room has a low signal and no issues either.
> 
> Make sure your router is using N as well as B and G. If you disabled G and /or B, then you can get issues on weaker signals, they use the lower b/g bands.


Our router uses all three standards (N, B, G). We can use all sorts of portable wifi devices in the same room as the Tivo without issue. It's questionable whether it's a signal strength issue because the problem only started in the past week after being fine for a year, but it probably doesn't help that the signal is weaker. Although the Roamio itself says the signal is "(good)" near the signal % number.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

choco said:


> I've used a wifi analyzer in the past to check which channels my neighbors are on, just checked again today to make sure that our router is on the least congested channel, and there's nothing nearby or interfering with our router or Tivo. It's more than just a general wifi troubleshooting issue, but thanks for the tips!
> 
> Does anyone actually use the built-in wireless to connect to the Tivo service, or does everyone plug into an extender or use MoCA? It would be nice to get some data on typical Tivo wifi signal strengths to compare to mine if possible.


Would it be acceptable to use channel 1? I will switch to wireless if you feel it would help your testing. My Roamio is on a floor above my router. I live in a rural area, so there isn't much interference.

Switched to wireless. Signal is 82% to 87%. I'm using DHCP without a reservation also. I'm using 5GHz on channel 153.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> Would it be acceptable to use channel 1? I will switch to wireless if you feel it would help your testing. My Roamio is on a floor above my router. I live in a rural area, so there isn't much interference.
> 
> Switched to wireless. Signal is 82% to 87%. I'm using HDCP without a reservation also. I'm using 5GHz on channel 153.


Thanks so much for testing it out. Your signal strength from another floor is better than mine on the same floor.  I'm currently using 2.4GHz on channel 4 with a static IP. Channel 1 is actually more congested than 4 for us.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

That channel is one of the worst for interference. I suggest channel 11 (or 1, 6) because they spread the signal up or down the channel to work better.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

ThAbtO said:


> That channel is one of the worst for interference. I suggest channel 11 (or 1, 6) because they spread the signal up or down the channel to work better.


I don't know much about how wifi signals/channels work. What causes interference on channel 4 if there are no other nearby wifi networks using that channel?

11 is super crowded here. Almost everyone is on it. 6 is okay, but I was avoiding that because I read that's the default for a lot of routers.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Cordless landline phones, microwaves, radios, etc. 

Some time ago, someone had an issue with the wireless and he forgot his cordless phone was next to the router which cause interference even though he had close to 100% signal. He moved it and the issue went away.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

ThAbtO said:


> Cordless landline phones, microwaves, radios, etc.
> 
> Some time ago, someone had an issue with the wireless and he forgot his cordless phone was next to the router which cause interference even though he had close to 100% signal. He moved it and the issue went away.


You're talking about wifi interference in general, right? Not just channel 4? We don't have any of those things nearby or at all (no cordless phones or radios), and for the moment, 4 and nearby channels are pretty clear, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

choco said:


> Thanks so much for testing it out. Your signal strength from another floor is better than mine on the same floor.  I'm currently using 2.4GHz on channel 4 with a static IP. Channel 1 is actually more congested than 4 for us.


I changed to 2.4GHz. Sorry, but my signal is now 92%. I can leave it there for a few days since I have another Roamio to feed my Mini. I'm still on channel 1. BTW, I have a Mini on the same floor as my router using a WUMC710, and it gets 90% from three rooms away. It's an old house with plaster walls. No sheet rock.

The router is ugly but it's really nice.


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

I would suggest that you experiment with the channels and which works best. Since there are only 11 channels, it would not take too long.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> I changed to 2.4GHz. Sorry, but my signal is now 92%. I can leave it there for a few days since I have another Roamio to feed my Mini. I'm still on channel 1. BTW, I have a Mini on the same floor as my router using a WUMC710, and it gets 90% from three rooms away. It's an old house with plaster walls. No sheet rock.
> 
> The router is ugly but it's really nice.


I'm sure at 92% you'll have a great connection.  Our house is all drywall. I wonder if that hinders reception more than plaster. Lots of curves and turns though in between the router and Tivo, which doesn't help.


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## Sheffield Steve (Jun 11, 2010)

Unfortunately on the 2.4GHz frequency the channels overlap each over by more than two channels. So in your case any neighbors on 2,3,4,5,6 will cause issues.

If fact it's better if the neighbor is on the same channel as you rather than adjacent one as it can use technology to mitigate interference.










I'm not sure if the Tivo supports it but the 5Ghz spectrum is much improved as no channels overlap and it's a lot less crowded.

p.s. Bluetooth uses the 2.4GHz too and that can cause interference.



choco said:


> I don't know much about how wifi signals/channels work. What causes interference on channel 4 if there are no other nearby wifi networks using that channel?
> 
> 11 is super crowded here. Almost everyone is on it. 6 is okay, but I was avoiding that because I read that's the default for a lot of routers.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

choco said:


> I'm sure at 92% you'll have a great connection.  Our house is all drywall. I wonder if that hinders reception more than plaster. Lots of curves and turns though in between the router and Tivo, which doesn't help.


After switching the Roamio to internal wireless at 2.4GHz, I have had any connection problems, but my guide update isn't for two hours. As expected my Mini didn't work, stuttering badly. So I changed it to my other Roamio.

I've never done any measurements, but drywall should be better.

Update: Daily download ran 100% at 2.4GHz. Switched to 5GHz and will test again. Mini now works also. I'm not going to try to figure out why. Signal is now 78% to 85%.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

Today, the daily connection for our Roamio finally succeeded on its own after a week of failing. Aside from restarting and powering down the Tivo a number of times a couple days ago trying to get it to work, I didn't make any changes at all to our router/channel/setup, and the signal is still ~70%.


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## Sheffield Steve (Jun 11, 2010)

Everyone is focusing on signal strength when that's usually not the issue. (i.e It will work fine at low signal levels)

Interference is almost always the cause of poor performance/and or dropping connections.

The best way to solve that, is to switch to 5Ghz, as none of the channels interfere with each other. Unlike the popular 2.4GHz where the only channels that don't interfere with each other are 1, 6 and 11.

e.g. If you are using channel 6 and you have neighbors on channels 4,5,7 or 8 then you will get interference.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Anyone with a wireless computer should get inSSIDer since it shows all signals that are close by. It's a very simple free tool. The pay version is very expensive. I only see six users and I live in an almost rural area. I do see, on my computer, a lot of pads and phones.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

Sheffield Steve said:


> Everyone is focusing on signal strength when that's usually not the issue. (i.e It will work fine at low signal levels)
> 
> Interference is almost always the cause of poor performance/and or dropping connections.
> 
> ...


The reason I asked about signal strength in my OP was that the Tivo rep insisted that was the problem.

Even though I'm on channel 4, I've looked at the channels our neighbors are on, and 4 (as well as the other nearby channels) are clear.

I don't think 5GHz would work for us because it has a shorter range which would result in an even weaker signal strength for us.

Anyways, as long as it keeps working, I'm fine. My guess is that the Tivo software doesn't handle errors and/or weaker signals as well as it could be, and there are probably also software bugs that make the situation worse. I don't think the problems I've had in the past week were caused by interference, per se.


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## JudySue (Jan 20, 2016)

I have recently hooked up my ne Tivo OTA Roamio,qnd sometimes get connection errors (Pls excuse my Question I'm somewhat tech-challenged): where I I change router settings exactly? My router Was installed by Cox (my Internet service provider) and I see nowhere on the Cisco dosis 3.0 router where anything can Be entered or changed. Is the router channel changed in the Tivo settings or on some software Program On my desktop computer? I looked for a router program on My desktop computer, and couldn't find anything. Again I apologise for my t,ech ignorance, any advice (given like unwound talk to someone who has No clue) Would be much appreciated. Thx much


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

JudySue said:


> I have recently hooked up my ne Tivo OTA Roamio,qnd sometimes get connection errors (Pls excuse my Question I'm somewhat tech-challenged): where I I change router settings exactly? My router Was installed by Cox (my Internet service provider) and I see nowhere on the Cisco dosis 3.0 router where anything can Be entered or changed. Is the router channel changed in the Tivo settings or on some software Program On my desktop computer? I looked for a router program on My desktop computer, and couldn't find anything. Again I apologise for my t,ech ignorance, any advice (given like unwound talk to someone who has No clue) Would be much appreciated. Thx much


Please look at your router and see if it has a model number. Channel settings are a function of the router. It may be a combo router/modem unless they provided two boxes.

Is your TiVo wired to your router?


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

Just wanted to post an update on my situation. Even at a little higher wifi signal strength (80-85%), I was still having daily connections fail routinely. Recently, I wired the Roamio directly into a wifi extender (still on the same wifi network). Since then, the daily connection hasn't failed once and is much more reliable.

My conclusion is that the wifi adaptor built into the Roamio combined with Tivo software connection handling is buggy and not robust at all, especially when the wifi signal strength isn't extremely high. I guess I knew that already from other posts, but now I have first-hand experience.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

A very valid observation. At 90% on 5GHz I have no guide connection problems, but I can't support a Mini.


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## csiddens (Dec 21, 2003)

I recently got a new roamio and was getting about 65% signal strength to my router, but it couldn't complete the initial connection setup with tivo. After several hours on the phone with tivo support, they insisted the initial call needed higher strength, which didn't make much sense, and after moving things around as much as I could, still couldn't connect even at 90%. They shipped me a new unit, which had the same issues.

As a final last resort, I swapped out my comcast supplied wireless router for an older d-link and everything went fine. For some reason, the roamio didn't like the comcast router. I'll have to check the channels on that router to see if that could be the issue. An ipad and iphone in the same room as the roamio had no trouble connecting with more than sufficient speed, but there definitely is something weird about roamio and at least my router.


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## lmacmil (Oct 26, 2015)

choco said:


> Our Roamio built-in wireless signal strength is usually around 65-70%. If you use the built-in wireless to connect to the Tivo service, what is your typical signal strength?


My TP-Link router is 10-12 feet from my Roamio. Never seen the wireless signal below 95% and it's 100% most times when I check.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

csiddens said:


> I'll have to check the channels on that router to see if that could be the issue. An ipad and iphone in the same room as the roamio had no trouble connecting with more than sufficient speed, but there definitely is something weird about roamio and at least my router.


There's a program, inSSIDer, that can still be found free with a Google search. It shows your wireless environment.


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## lmacmil (Oct 26, 2015)

lmacmil said:


> My TP-Link router is 10-12 feet from my Roamio. Never seen the wireless signal below 95% and it's 100% most times when I check.


I recently changed to the 5Ghz connection and also updated my router's firmware (TP-Link Archer C8). My signal strength now runs in the 60-80% range (I've seen it as low as 55%). I have not noticed any issues with the Tivo.

Update 1 day later: could not connect to the Tivo service today. The automatic attempt failed so I tried manually a couple times and it also failed. Re-booted the Tivo, still no luck. Changed my connection from 5 Ghz to 2.4 and it connected just fine. Signal strength is 100% after the change, as it was before I switched to the 5 Ghz band. Not sure if this is a coincidence but I guess I will leave it on 2.4 now.


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