# Premiere 30 sec skip too slow



## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Just got setup with new Premiere a couple of days ago. Didn't like the 30 sec scan (way too slow) so I used S-P-S-3-0-S code to enable the traditional 30 sec skip. What I've noticed is skipping forwards and backwards with Premiere has a much longer lag compared to my S3 OLED unit for the same show (I MRVd from my S3). With my S3 response is almost instantaneous, with Premiere there is a 1 sec lag or so where picture is just frozen before playback begins. It makes repeated skips very clumsy. Anyone else noticed the lag in Premiere skipping? (I'm using SD interface as I don't care for the HD interface at all).

For as much as I saw posts about how fast the Premiere SD interface is compared to older units I must say I'm not impressed. Perhaps compared to THD units it is, but I'm finding certain things such as skips slower and Now Playing List, etc no faster than my OLED S3.

Only things I'm really liking so far are faster TTG/MRV and better H.264 playback compared to my S3 unit. Other than those things the S3 unit I find is still a better unit overall - certainly for mpeg2 playback. I do miss the clock and the OLED display showing what's recording more than I thought I would as well.


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## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

I second the fact that the 30 sec skip is slower. It is very different from what I'm used to on the THD. I mentioned that in another post somewhere but it was lost in the shuffle. I hope they get this fixed.


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## turbobozz (Sep 21, 2006)

Did you disable the 30s scan function in the settings before turning on SPS30S?
I seem to recall that disabling scan before SPS30S made the skip behave more like it did previously.
I'd try disabling SPS30S, disabling 30s scan in the settings, and then re-enabling SPS30S.

I also seem to recall Premiere purposefully delays response to the skip/replay buttons to add extended functionality when 30s scan is enabled... 
Hold down the skip/replay button and it goes to the end/beginning of the recording.

(I could very well not be remembering correctly, apologies if I'm wrong.)


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

turbobozz said:


> Did you disable the 30s scan function in the settings before turning on SPS30S?
> I seem to recall that disabling scan before SPS30S made the skip behave more like it did previously.
> I'd try disabling SPS30S, disabling 30s scan in the settings, and then re-enabling SPS30S.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the suggestion. No, initially I did not disable the 30s scan. To try out your suggestion I disabled 30s skip and then when to the remote settings and saw that 30s scan option was already disabled such that skip button jumps to end (so probably S-P-S-3-0-S disables that automatically). In any case I toggled that setting to enable scan and then used it a little and then returned to the setting and disabled it then re-enabled 30s skip but behavior is no different - there is a distinct frame freeze for each skip press. If I didn't know any better it probably would not be so annoying, but being used to instant response to skips of my S3s this really bothers me, especially as I use 30s skip a lot - by far the most used button on my remote.
FYI, I also tried different remotes including one that I use with my S3 unit, so I don't think it's anything to do with remote but rather some intrinsic "feature" of the Premiere. I don't have a THD unit to compare against.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, it's surprising and annoying. I remember the S3 acted this way at one point, but it got fixed in a later software revision.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I used to religiously use the 30 second skip. But since using the 30 second scan with the Premiere, I like that alot more. That is all I use now. Granted it is a little slower than the 30 sec. skip, but i can see things during the 30 second scan and stop it if something interests me.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

wmcbrine said:


> Yeah, it's surprising and annoying. I remember the S3 acted this way at one point, but it got fixed in a later software revision.


 Yes, I seem to remember that too, there are some older threads on the subject and I vaguely remember being annoyed by it a couple of years ago or so but as you said it got fixed (pretty quickly too by TiVo standards).


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## robin50 (Feb 15, 2007)

moyekj said:


> then re-enabled 30s skip but behavior is no different - there is a distinct frame freeze for each skip press. If I didn't know any better it probably would not be so annoying, but being used to instant response to skips of my S3s this really bothers me, especially as I use 30s skip a lot - by far the most used button on my remote.


This is very disturbing. As a multi-S3 owner with two Premiere arriving tomorrow I am particularly interested in this issue. I agree with you about the importance of the skip (as well as the back skip).

1. Does there seem to be a buffer for the key strokes, that is if one hits the 30-second skip (S-P-S-3-0-S style) 4 times in rapid succession, despite the whatever lag happens on the TiVo, will all 4 skips eventually be executed? How about with the scan-style skip?

2. Does the back skip exhibit this same problem?

3. Does the slide remote (using bluetooth functionality) mitigate any of the lag problems? (Seems as though it would have no effect on that freeze-frame thing you are citing.)

Thanks!


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

robin50 said:


> This is very disturbing. As a multi-S3 owner with two Premiere arriving tomorrow I am particularly interested in this issue. I agree with you about the importance of the skip (as well as the back skip).
> 
> 1. Does there seem to be a buffer for the key strokes, that is if one hits the 30-second skip (S-P-S-3-0-S style) 4 times in rapid succession, despite the whatever lag happens on the TiVo, will all 4 skips eventually be executed? How about with the scan-style skip?
> 
> ...


1. From what I recall (not available to try it right now) when you press skip in rapid succession there will be a 1 second or so frame displayed when you start the skip, then you won't see a different frame until all skips are processed. For my S3 in contrast I would see a very brief video frame for each skip press so you can judge where you are in your multi-skip presses and stop appropriately. With the Premiere if you press skip too fast then you are blind until you slow down and contain your presses to be 1+ second intervals. i.e. Multi-skip presses are even more annoying than single presses.
2. Back skip has exact same issue - it freezes on the frame you initiated skip on for about 1 second or so before going through.
3. Doubt it. If I skip via telnet interface I see the same issue. i.e. It seems to be an issue with the decoder itself. I shall have to test if h.264 video playback behaves the same way as mpeg2, but I suspect that is the case.


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## gespears (Aug 10, 2007)

Moyekj is correct. I'm used to the THD and lived by the 30 second skip. But the TP, set to the 30 sec skip, not scan, is not the same as the THD and is really annoying. Is it a deal breaker, no but as stated before the S3 at my parents house originally had this problem as well and it was fixed in a later version of the software. I'm really hoping that they fix the TP also. The delay is definately a problem with the TP and not any kind of remote issue or anything else. The THD remote works on the TP as well as my harmony remote which still has the THD codes, and the issue is the same.

As I stated, it's not a dealbreaker but I sure hope they fix it.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

moyekj said:


> FYI, I also tried different remotes including one that I use with my S3 unit, so I don't think it's anything to do with remote but rather some intrinsic "feature" of the Premiere. I don't have a THD unit to compare against.


The 30 sec skip on the THD is very fast as well, no discernable delay. I would be very annoyed at this behavior because as you said those buttons are what gets used the most.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

I just got the slide remote yesterday, using it on my TPXL, 30 sec skip and replay are VERY fast, I would say instantaneous response. IIRC, I've never seen it this fast since way back in the good old days of DirecTivo, definitely faster than using the stock IR remote. I still don't understand why Tivo would respond faster to the slide remote, but I'm not complaining.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

gespears said:


> ... I'm really hoping that they fix the TP also. The delay is definately a problem with the TP and not any kind of remote issue or anything else. The THD remote works on the TP as well as my harmony remote which still has the THD codes, and the issue is the same.
> 
> As I stated, it's not a dealbreaker but I sure hope they fix it.


Have you tried the slide remote? Mine is blazing fast. Maybe worth a trip to a BB store if they have a demo unit to try it out.


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## robin50 (Feb 15, 2007)

yunlin12 said:


> I just got the slide remote yesterday, using it on my TPXL, 30 sec skip and replay are VERY fast, I would say instantaneous response. IIRC, I've never seen it this fast since way back in the good old days of DirecTivo, definitely faster than using the stock IR remote. I still don't understand why Tivo would respond faster to the slide remote, but I'm not complaining.


You've given me new hope. My Premieres arrived at the office today, I already have slide remotes---I'll post my findings tonight.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

The behavior that multiple press of 30 skips queue up and execute in one shot is still there with the slide remote. I can get 30 skip in about 1/2 second intervals to get each to execute individually. It felt fast yesterday compared to my IR remote, but I will take back the statement about it felt instantaneous.

Replay is much quicker with the slide remote, each one will almost always execute individually.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Through the telnet interface the 30s skip is no faster than using IR remote as well. Plus you can see the yellow light on the Premiere light up before the frozen frame appears on TV. The problem looks to be intrinsic to the decoder, not the interface to the command. As was pointed out only hope is that a firmware/software change can fix it as was the case with S3/THD platforms. Here's most relevant past thread for this issue on S3 platforms:
Did 9.1 Screw Up Your "30 Second Skip" and "Instant Replay"?
i.e. It was "broken" starting with 9.1 (October 2007 time frame) and fixed with 9.4 (October 2008 time frame).


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

FYI, I confirmed the same issue happens with H.264 playback as well, so it's not just mpeg2 playback this is confined to.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

But it's super annoying. By now the Premiere is hardly brand new and such a marginal improvement over the S3 that this shortcoming really stinks. The biggest benefit for me is the fact that Comcast doesn't charge me $8/month for the 2nd cable card. This leaves me wishing I just paid up for a larger drive. 

I'll remain hopeful for a fix but skeptical that this is just caving in to advertisers.


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## jbcheshire (Jun 6, 2006)

This has got to be one of the worst things about the "new" Premiere unit!! It is very frustrating to wait while you skip through the commercials.. I have experienced about every issue people have been talking about on the Premiere unit. I am getting close to returning the stupid thing and buying an s3 HD unit...


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## rage777 (Aug 19, 2006)

jbcheshire said:


> This has got to be one of the worst things about the "new" Premiere unit!! It is very frustrating to wait while you skip through the commercials.. I have experienced about every issue people have been talking about on the Premiere unit. I am getting close to returning the stupid thing and buying an s3 HD unit...


I'm confused. Are you talking about the 30 sec skip or the 30 sec scan? They are two completely different things. The 30 sec scan comes by default on the Premiere, and the 30 sec skip comes by default on all the other Tivos. If you are watching the commercials in fast forward mode, then you are in the 30 sec scan mode. Change it to the 30 sec skip mode if you don't like it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

the 30 second skip has to be enabled by a back door code in the S3 models.

I thought I would not like the 30 second scan before getting the Premiere since I was so used to the 30 second skip with my S3 units. But I find that I like the 30 second scan much better. it shows me how much time it will scan over and I'm able to see the content which allows me to stop if I want to see something. Now after using the 30 scan for six months with my Premieres, I find i don't like the 30 second skip at all when I use it on my girlfriends S3 boxes.

one more reason why I like the Premiere boxes so much better than any of the Previous TiVos I've owned.


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## jbcheshire (Jun 6, 2006)

I was talking about the "scan" method. So you can do enable the 30-second skip on the Premiere units too? I read the posts above and I am not for sure how they are doing this backdoor/hack method, can someone explain or point me to the thread that has the instructions??.. Thanks!!


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

jbcheshire said:


> I was talking about the "scan" method. So you can do enable the 30-second skip on the Premiere units too? I read the posts above and I am not for sure how they are doing this backdoor/hack method, can someone explain or point me to the thread that has the instructions??.. Thanks!!


You enable traditional 30 sec skip same way as always, though with the "pause advertisement" there's an extra step.
1. Start playback of a previously recorded show
2. Click on pause and then down arrow to get rid of the pause advertisement banner
3. Resume play and press clear to clear any banners
4. Now enter following sequence with remote:
Select-Play-Select-3-0-Select

Traditional 30 sec skip should now be enabled, but on Premiere units it has the annoying delay between rapid consecutive skips as detailed in this thread.

I tried the 30 sec scan for a little when I first got Premiere and found it absolutely terrible. If one thinks the "broken" 30 sec skip is too slow the scan method in comparison is ridiculously slow. I for one don't want to have any glimpse of commercials if possible when skipping them - might as well use FF if you do want to see them, and essentially 30 sec scan is just a 30x FF with controlled skip time. Disabling HDUI and the 30 sec scan are essential for Premiere to become tolerable, but even then there are issues with SDUI still such as this one and the remote control freezes that several others have reported having problem with as well. Throw in lack of OLED display and missing extra analog audio outputs useful for Slingbox connection and I'm pretty disappointed with the Premiere even though I got one for $95.


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## volfan615 (Sep 15, 2010)

moyekj said:


> You enable traditional 30 sec skip same way as always, though with the "pause advertisement" there's an extra step.
> 1. Start playback of a previously recorded show
> 2. Click on pause and then down arrow to get rid of the pause advertisement banner
> 3. Resume play and press clear to clear any banners
> ...


This does not work on my PXL.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

rage777 said:


> I'm confused. Are you talking about the 30 sec skip or the 30 sec scan? They are two completely different things. The 30 sec scan comes by default on the Premiere, and the 30 sec skip comes by default on all the other Tivos. If you are watching the commercials in fast forward mode, then you are in the 30 sec scan mode. Change it to the 30 sec skip mode if you don't like it.


I just wish the "skip" mode still worked like it used to. The skip may be faster than the scan but how can it be so much slower than on an S3 on a machine with supposedly faster hardware ?


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## damessenger (Nov 5, 2010)

jbcheshire said:


> This has got to be one of the worst things about the "new" Premiere unit!! It is very frustrating to wait while you skip through the commercials.. I have experienced about every issue people have been talking about on the Premiere unit. I am getting close to returning the stupid thing and buying an s3 HD unit...


I have to agree! I haven't had my Premiere for that long, but this slow skip thing really ticks me off! I am going to put this premiere in a room where I don't watch it that much and use an S3 HD for most of my viewing. I'm also going to tell anyone that I talk to that about DVRs that buying a used S3 HD is a much better way to go than buying a new Tivo Premiere. I believe that Tivo is caving in the advertisers, and I don't think they should be able to have it both ways (sell us something that makes it easier to get around watching commercials, but at the same time it doesn't work good enough that you can't avoid them alltogether). I hope they fix it but I'm not holding my breath! If they don't, this will definitely be the last Tivo I buy and probably a lot of other people. I mean the 30 second skip (not scan) is the main reason I bought it!


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## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

Did I read this correctly? There is NOT an analog audio output on the Premiere??


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## DaveWhittle (Jul 25, 2002)

hybucket said:


> Did I read this correctly? There is NOT an analog audio output on the Premiere??


Not sure where you got that impression: The Premiere has analog audio outs.


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## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

DaveWhittle said:


> Not sure where you got that impression: The Premiere has analog audio outs.


This is from Post #23 above:
_Throw in lack of OLED display and missing extra analog audio outputs useful for Slingbox connection and I'm pretty disappointed with the Premiere even though I got one for $95._


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## vurbano (Apr 20, 2004)

All they needed to do was make file transfer faster by upgrading components in the THD and I would have been more than happy. but nooooo.


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## PedjaR (Jan 4, 2010)

hybucket said:


> This is from Post #23 above:
> _Throw in lack of OLED display and missing extra analog audio outputs useful for Slingbox connection and I'm pretty disappointed with the Premiere even though I got one for $95._


missing *extra* analog audio outputs


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't get it - RCA jacks are easy to split. That's not a valid reason to not like Premiere.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> I don't get it - RCA jacks are easy to split. That's not a valid reason to not like Premiere.


If Tivo were Apple, they could've just thrown in a display port, killed all the other video outputs, and make everyone pay extra to buy additional display adapters, and get praised for streamlining the design.


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## mandms7 (Mar 11, 2006)

Immediately noticed the delay with 30-second skip after enabling it. I find it extremely annoying and really hope TiVo fixes it through an update.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

So I called Tivo about the sluggish skip issue. They suggested resetting the IR receiver by shining a flashlight into it and restarting the system. The skip is still not as fast as my S3 but it does seem better. Of course it's tough to measure the delay and I don't have my old S3 in front of me to compare but again, I'm happy it's at least better.

I'm not exactly sure where the IR receiver is but I used my bright LED flashlight and moved it slowly back and forth across the front. They said it had to be a really bright light. Good luck.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

You've got the be kidding - reset the IR receiver? LOL.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

It's NOT the IR receiver. 30 sec skip via USB keyboard or telnet/ethernet remote control modes which don't involve the IR receiver results in same delays. Plus the delay is due to decoder temporarily freezing on a frame when you execute 30 sec skip, not a delayed response to the command itself.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

moyekj said:


> It's NOT the IR receiver. 30 sec skip via USB keyboard or telnet/ethernet remote control modes which don't involve the IR receiver results in same delays. Plus the delay is due to decoder temporarily freezing on a frame when you execute 30 sec skip, not a delayed response to the command itself.


 I did both (reset IR and reset Tivo) so can't say which did the trick and as I mentioned, it didn't eliminate the delay but it did improve.

Has anyone else opened a ticket with Tivo ? I'm sure the more they hear from customers, the better the chances of getting it back to it's normal "instant" self. I'll attempt to get it escalated and post any reference number for the problem.

Anyone else care to do a restart and see if they notice a difference ?


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## hutsi (Oct 4, 2007)

ben2e said:


> I did both (reset IR and reset Tivo) so can't say which did the trick and as I mentioned, it didn't eliminate the delay but it did improve.
> 
> Has anyone else opened a ticket with Tivo ? I'm sure the more they hear from customers, the better the chances of getting it back to it's normal "instant" self. I'll attempt to get it escalated and post any reference number for the problem.
> 
> Anyone else care to do a restart and see if they notice a difference ?


You should try the other method:

Put your finger on the 30s skip button and with the other hand shine a really bright light into your eyes. As you're doing that, push the 30s skip button. You shouldn't notice the visual delay at this point.


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## justen_m (Jan 15, 2004)

Has the slow 30 second skip been fixed yet? I think I saw that there was a new firmware release recently that some people got.


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## Skipper30 (Dec 9, 2010)

hutsi said:


> You should try the other method:
> 
> Put your finger on the 30s skip button and with the other hand shine a really bright light into your eyes. As you're doing that, push the 30s skip button. You shouldn't notice the visual delay at this point.


Great... Thanks for such a useful post.

Anyone get past base level of phone support with Tivo ?

Do they acknowledge the issue exists ? I'm wishing I kept the HD.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

I phoned Tivo today to follow up. The person I got acknowledged problems in the unit's response in general (not 30 second skip) and said they were working on it and deploying incremental fixes. I got the idea that the Premier was Tivo's "Windows Vista" as in lots of features that look good on paper but weren't executed well. I couldn't get a reference to any problem number nor could I get anything truly useful. He kept claiming that I couldn't compare the Premier to the S3 because of the S3's different architecture. I told him I really didn't care about that detail, what I cared about was that the new unit was slower. Needless to say it wasn't very productive.

Anyone out there know how to either get someone knowledgeable or perhaps get to the next level of their support ? If I can't get more useful information, it's scarcely worth calling.


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## HSW (Oct 24, 2003)

30 Second skip works perfectly with the bluetooth slide remote. But with the IR remote, its bad.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

I've never objectively measured the delay but it does seem a little better than it used to be. If I hit the skip 10+ times, there's very little wait for play to resume. It's still not as good as it was in the S3.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Maybe the skip will be faster when the second core is enabled. I know the 30 second scan is faster with the Elite than the two tuner Premieres.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

I hadn't heard about the 2nd core issue. I have had a few recordings which seem to clip the sides during playback as if it were trying to display a non-HD signal. 

Wonder if Tivo has an upgrade price for permiere owners to the new 4 tuner box. I'm scared now to ever upgrade again after the downgrade in performance vs the S3. One person at Tivo who I spoke to last year talked about the premiere being rearchitected in such a way that each command needed to make network hops. It didn't make sense to me and he didn't explain it well but it made me think it wasn't so well designed.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> Maybe the skip will be faster when the second core is enabled. I know the 30 second scan is faster with the Elite than the two tuner Premieres.


If they haven't activated the second core by now, I doubt they ever will.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

unitron said:


> If they haven't activated the second core by now, I doubt they ever will.


It supposedly activated with 14.9. The Elite has mostly the same hardware and memory as the two tuner premiere. But it is much faster in navigating the menus. The 30 second scan is also faster(I haven't checked the skip since I don't use it any more)

So when the two tuner boxes get 14.9 the hope is it will see the second core activated and speed improvements as well.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

aaronwt said:


> It supposedly activated with 14.9. The Elite has mostly the same hardware and memory as the two tuner premiere. But it is much faster in navigating the menus. The 30 second scan is also faster(I haven't checked the skip since I don't use it any more)
> 
> So when the two tuner boxes get 14.9 the hope is it will see the second core activated and speed improvements as well.


Isn't the Premiere's HDUI still unfinished?

I don't think TiVo is the same company anymore.


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## Ozy (Mar 10, 2003)

This problem still exists on 14.9. I have an elite and am super pissed about this frame lag when I FF. I'm so used to how my Tivo3 and THD do their FF skips. The slight frame lag after each FF or RW press is intolerable. I miss the start of show every time and have to skip back constantly now. 

I can't believe this. I even turned off the HD menus and it's still on there. Perhaps they knew this and thats why they defaulted to the FF Slide?

So angry...


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

Anyone know if the XL is any better ? After speaking with their tech support, I came to the conclusion that they made a horribly bad software rewrite which added tons of overhead to the execution paths of formerly brisk commands. I still want my S3 back.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

No. I think it's likely a hardware (decoder) issue. The S3 OLED in my mind is still the best hardware for raw DVR functionality (mpeg2 playback, FF, REW, skip etc). There was no cheaping out on hardware there.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

Forgive me ignorance, do you mean an OLED screen or is that a type of hardware decoder ? Kills me that Tivo would downgrade a decoder on a more modern piece of hardware. Usually a few years time will get you cheaper & better. Never would have entered my mind that the hardware part would backslide vs a product build years before. Hard to do even.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

ben2e said:


> Forgive me ignorance, do you mean an OLED screen or is that a type of hardware decoder ? Kills me that Tivo would downgrade a decoder on a more modern piece of hardware. Usually a few years time will get you cheaper & better. Never would have entered my mind that the hardware part would backslide vs a product build years before. Hard to do even.


Go look at this picture of the first of the S3 platform, the TCD648250

http://www.tivopedia.com/model-tivo-series3.php

That thing in the middle on the front with a clock and some other info is an Organic Light Emitting Diode display.

Some of the early 3 speed VHS VCRs were the same way, they had a display and buttons on the front that gave you some info and allowed some functionality without having to turn on the TV or pick up the remote.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

For anyone at Tivo monitoring these forums, please fix this. It makes the Elite feel slower than my old HDs for everyday use, even in SDUI mode.


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## ben2e (Feb 14, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> For anyone at Tivo monitoring these forums, please fix this. It makes the Elite feel slower than my old HDs for everyday use, even in SDUI mode.


Good luck. I have yet to speak to anyone at TIVO who acknowledges a problem exists. One guy told me "you can't compare them, they're completely different systems". Another great customer centric gem. Give me my old one back.


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