# Hate 8300HD, Need Help Please!!!



## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

I absolutely love Tivo, but I just can't go without HD recorded programs. In particular sports and Discovery specials. I've been using the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD from Cox for about seven months now and I'm losing my mind.

This equipment is junk. I even had Cox replace the system with a brand-new, fresh out of the box one because I couldn't believe the first wasn't defective. Turns out it really is just a terrible box with absolutely HORRID software. I then called Scientific Atlanta and asked those guys what the deal was and they told me they, and I quote, "never heard of anyone not liking the 8300HD." They even followed-up by adding, in response to my comments about how much better Tivo's guide works, with "We leave Tivo in the dust."

Amazing. How arrogant can these people possibly be? They have a clearly defective product that needs major work to even compete on the same level as Tivo and yet, they think it's perfect.

Obviously the 8300HD and anything else from Scientific Atlanta isn't going to go anywhere and I need to jump ship.

Which brings me to: I have Cox digital cable and I have absolutely no plans to ever go to satellite. I need an HD-compatible/recordable PVR, preferably Tivo/Tivo-based. Please tell me what to buy! I would rather not wait for the Tivo Series 3 (God, that has taken too damn long already!), but I will probably buy one of those once it comes out too. In the meantime, I need something NOW.

PLEASE HELP! Thank you!


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## tazzmission (Oct 15, 2002)

The Series 3 is your only option if you are staying with cable and want to record HD and not use the cable companies DVR. Only problem is the Series 3 is not out yet.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

The only HD TiVo is with DirecTV, since that's not an option, go buy a Series 2 DT TiVo, use your HD DVR ONLY for HD, use your SD for everything else including duplicating your HD programs in case it misses things...


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## darkwing (Jun 23, 2006)

What about a PC-based DVR, especially if it's temporary? I've heard good things about Snapstream and BeyondTV.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Why don't you want to go to Satellite? I left cable 9 years ago and have no plans to go back. I did try the SA8000 a couple of years ago on Time Warner before Directv came out with their HD Tivo and it was horrible. It was as if they'd never heard of a DVR before. You'd think if one was going to come up with a competing product that you'd buy one from the competition learn how it works and improve on it. As you found out, that was not the case. If you can believe it, the SA8000 was even worse than the one you have now. 

As soon as HD Tivo came out my wife pleaded with me to spend the money to get one and go back to Directv. I had suspended our account in order to give the SA8000 a try.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Runch Machine said:


> Why don't you want to go to Satellite? I left cable 9 years ago and have no plans to go back. I did try the SA8000 a couple of years ago on Time Warner before Directv came out with their HD Tivo and it was horrible. It was as if they'd never heard of a DVR before. You'd think if one was going to come up with a competing product that you'd buy one from the competition learn how it works and improve on it. As you found out, that was not the case. If you can believe it, the SA8000 was even worse than the one you have now.
> 
> As soon as HD Tivo came out my wife pleaded with me to spend the money to get one and go back to Directv. I had suspended our account in order to give the SA8000 a try.


I probably wouldn't advise the OP to go to satellite for the sole purpose of HD TiVo. If TiVo is the criteria, he will be forced to sign a two year contract and the HR10 will likely be phased out by the end of the year. (YES, I know it will still work, but I think the OP will be upset to learn that next year he can't buy a series 3 and is stuck with whatever pathetic offerings still work with the HR10...)


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions gang. I'm dying here. This 8300HD is driving me absolutely mad. At least 2 or 3 times this week I came within a hair of unplugging it and pitching it off my back deck.

Tonight I was watching a program I taped on Discovery HD and the system suddenly froze. The LCD then said, "F A I L". Just as I got up to go over and try to power cycle it, the box rebooted itself. Earlier in the week the box taped ONLY the first 5 seconds of all of my programs for the evening. Inexplicable.

Also, now about 1 in 5 programs record with a distinct popping/clicking sound that occurs about every 1 minute.

Keep in mind this is my SECOND brand-new, fresh out of the box 8300HD. Scientific Atlanta tells me the box is perfection and there is no sign of a new version coming any time soon.

Please TiVo, hurry up.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Maybe three time's a charm.........or not. Good luck. It does sound like your second SA box is defective though. 

You could also try a sony dhg HDD250 or 500. It records HD (works with cablecard) but only has one tuner. Do some research on it as some have had problems setting up and using the TV Guide On Screen (it downloads from local analog pbs stations).


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## DVRaholic (Mar 28, 2004)

Runch Machine said:


> Why don't you want to go to Satellite? I left cable 9 years ago and have no plans to go back. I did try the SA8000 a couple of years ago on Time Warner before Directv came out with their HD Tivo and it was horrible. It was as if they'd never heard of a DVR before. You'd think if one was going to come up with a competing product that you'd buy one from the competition learn how it works and improve on it. As you found out, that was not the case. If you can believe it, the SA8000 was even worse than the one you have now.
> 
> As soon as HD Tivo came out my wife pleaded with me to spend the money to get one and go back to Directv. I had suspended our account in order to give the SA8000 a try.


Same here, I suspended my account with Directv to go with cablevision and the Sa 8300HD DVR. Better picture quality with cablevision mostly on HD 
BUT...Worst experience ever!!! the second day the box rebooted itself in the middle of recording, This DVR likes to do this at least every 2 weeks, But the biggest problem I had was losing recordings!!

The final straw was Last weekend!!! 
We had 3 recordings of Rescue Me backed up so last Saturday night we opened a nice bottle of wine and planned on spending the next 2-3 hours or so catching up on our FAVORITE SHOW!! To our HORROR there was only one recording there, The SA8300HD Had EATEN the other 2 recordings!! 
%$#[email protected]^&*!!!!!!

The next morning I was on the phone reactivating my account and canceling cablevision!!! Im not happy with the softer picture with Directv but at least I wont have the Worst aggravation of my DVR eating my recordings!!!!!

I might eventually go back to Cablevision when the Series 3 is released BUT it wont be for a while, Im a bit concerned about Cable Card. All I hear is Bad stories about cards not working properly and having to be constantly replaced. Until they are more stable I will stay with Directv.


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## reh523 (Feb 28, 2006)

darkwing said:


> What about a PC-based DVR, especially if it's temporary? I've heard good things about Snapstream and BeyondTV.


Cable company STB can't output HD (only through component and HDMI). PC based DVR can only record OTA HD. They have no component or HDMI input. On a rare occasion you might get a firewire HD signal by "playing" with your STB.....


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## darkwing (Jun 23, 2006)

reh523 said:


> Cable company STB can't output HD (only through component and HDMI). PC based DVR can only record OTA HD. They have no component or HDMI input. On a rare occasion you might get a firewire HD signal by "playing" with your STB.....


Certain PC tuner cards can also decode unencrypted QAM; that might allow another HD channel or two. In any event, given the OP's (justified) hatred for STB-style boxes, I assumed they were excluded; and in that case, I think PC-based solutions are superior.


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## hijammer (Aug 27, 2003)

You are forgetti that if you ask they are required to give you a cable box that supports outputtign fire wire.but that is another can of worms recoding that and transforming it to usable signal.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

instill said:


> Thanks for the suggestions gang. I'm dying here. This 8300HD is driving me absolutely mad. At least 2 or 3 times this week I came within a hair of unplugging it and pitching it off my back deck.
> 
> Tonight I was watching a program I taped on Discovery HD and the system suddenly froze. The LCD then said, "F A I L". Just as I got up to go over and try to power cycle it, the box rebooted itself. Earlier in the week the box taped ONLY the first 5 seconds of all of my programs for the evening. Inexplicable.
> 
> ...


I am still curious...

The reason you won't try Directv and HD Tivo is____________.

I am amazed with how much people are willing to suffer with crappy cable box DVRs.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Runch Machine said:


> I am still curious...
> 
> The reason you won't try Directv and HD Tivo is____________.
> 
> I am amazed with how much people are willing to suffer with crappy cable box DVRs.


With all due respect, I'd rather have a crappy HD DVR from the cable company than have the crappy picture quality that DirecTV continues to pump out. Picture quality affects every single TV show I watch. Considering the quality is only as good as the weakest link, DirecTV was the weakest link, for sure. Some folks may have DirecTV/DSS as their only option, and others may have crappy cable company service and quality. For me, DirecTV quality totally sucked, and they've been degrading it for several years. Maybe one day it was again be better, but I'd rather put up with a crappy user interface on a cable DVR, than crappy picture quality.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Except you are not the original poster with the DVR problem. I am not asking for your input. I have a 70" HDTV and am satisfied with the picture quality of Directv's HD Channels.

What good is a DVR if it doesn't record the shows you want? Then you can't see anything, regardless of slight variations in picture quality.


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## MarkBarbieri (Aug 16, 2005)

I'm in a similar situation. I've got DirecTv with 2 HD-250s. My house is in the woods and I can't get OTA HD. On Friday I has Time Warner install a couple of HD DVRs because I can't take another football season without an HD DVR. I don't consider ESPN HD an ESPN2 HD enough. I don't consider HD without a DVR good enough.

My problem is that I was in no way prepared for how pathetic the SA 8000 boxes I got would be. Wholly smokes, these things or horrible. One is having some obvious problems and now won't connect to digital content. The other works like I think it is supposed to, but I'm staggered by how bad it is. Maybe I just haven't learned to work it well yet, although the lack of a decent manual doesn't help.

In case others are considering it, here are the problems I'm having:

1) Can't remove stations from my list. There are lots of music stations, foreign language stations, shopping channels, and such that I never want to see. Why can't I get them out of the guide? Heck, I can't even keep stations that I don't subscribe to from showing up. Nothing's more fun than searching for a show my kids want, finding it, and then telling them that we don't actually get that station so we can't watch it.

2) The searching capability is in the stone ages. Forget about actor or keyword searches or wishlists. The best I can find is the ability to search by title or by title. Yeeha. Want to search more than a week in advance? Can't do it. If you want to search by title for a show, I have to no what day it is on because the search is limited to a day at a time. Why? Do they hate me?

3) If something was on earlier today and I want to set up a season pass for it, I can't do it. When I find it via the limited search capabilities and select it, instead of giving me recording options, it inexplicably assumes that I want to watch that channel right now and switches me to it. WTF?

4) My working unit decided to turn off last night and didn't record anything. Is it supposed to do this? Any idea why it would do this?

5) Sometimes when I'm changing channels, the PIP window magically appears. It's like it saves the PIP setting for a channel and if I go back that channel it pops up the PIP window. What's up with that?

I'm not sure that HD football is worth it. Maybe I should just ignore this season as well.

Has anyone used the SA 8000 and the new SD Direct PVR? Is the Direct one any better?


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## MarkBarbieri (Aug 16, 2005)

One more thing - lipsync. I watched my first recorded HD show last night. It was the tonight show. The audio was way out of sync. I used a feature on my receiver to adjust and got it acceptably close. Is this delay constant or will I have to adjust it with each different show? I never had this problem with my HD on Direct, so I'm assuming that it is yet another "feature" of the SA 8000 or cable.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

I am curious if you have tried to get OTA stations. Just being in the woods is not a deal killer. It is also a function of how far you are from the transmitters. Do you get FM radio reception? Are you able to receive any analog TV stations? Have you checked antennaweb.org to see what they think you can receive over the air?


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Runch Machine said:


> Except you are not the original poster with the DVR problem. I am not asking for your input. I have a 70" HDTV and am satisfied with the picture quality of Directv's HD Channels.


Glad you are satisfied. I did not ask you that...

Next time why don't you just go ahead and list who you want to respond, or don't want to respond. Sorry I answered a post. Geesus.



Runch Machine said:


> What good is a DVR if it doesn't record the shows you want? Then you can't see anything, regardless of slight variations in picture quality.


Never had a problem with a record not occuring. Perhaps a different DVR and/or software.

Slight variations in PQ? Yea, right, whatever you say.


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

Runch Machine said:


> I am still curious...
> 
> The reason you won't try Directv and HD Tivo is____________.
> 
> I am amazed with how much people are willing to suffer with crappy cable box DVRs.


I bought a Directv package in 2001. I tried using the service for about 10 months but had intermittent service outages in even mild weather conditions (wind, rains, dust blows, etc.), was miffed by the inability to watch different programming in different rooms, less than stellar picture quality, and when I was told a second and maybe even third dish was required to receive additional local channels, I was done.

I honestly can't see myself going back to Directv ever again. Too many pitfalls. I like the concept of satellite, but it just can't compare on many levels to digital cable.

As for the DVR service on the other hand... Which when I really think hard about it, we only really watch recording programming and ondemand now. Does Directv even have ondemand?


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

OK NOW I AM REALLY PISSED.

After I typed my last response, I switched on the box and fired up my recorded program list. I selected Indy racing and immediately knew something was wrong. It said, "Length: 56 minutes." Now I know there is no way in hell ESPN squeezed an Indy race into under an hour.

Sure enough, I hit play and the program length bar at the bottom of the screen is only about 40% green with the remainder colored red. On the 8300HD, the red color indicates that part of the program was not recorded.

Then I go back to the list and realize the NASCAR Pocono 500 race from Pennsylvania, my home state, didn't record AT ALL.

IM GOING INSANE


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Thanks for your reply. I realize you had problems and understand that you may not want to try Directv again. However, what are your options? Since the cable DVR doesn't work, what other program providers are there? I suggest Directv because they have a DVR that works with software that you like. 

As far as weather causing loss of signal, if your dish is installed propertly you should not have a problem except when it rains really hard. I probably lose my signal for a total of an hour a year. However, it is not a big problem because I receive my local digital channels over the air. They never go out since local channels aren't affected by weather (assuming you have a good signal and are not on the edge of your local reception).

Directv does not have on demand. It is a cool feature. I tried it when we had the SA8000 for a couple of months. It wasn't worth staying with cable for us for on demand because the DVR was so unreliable. I don't miss having on demand since we record all the shows we want and HD Tivo never misses any. 

It is disappointing that after all this time they haven't fixed the problem. It's nice to have a choice and competition is good.


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

Runch Machine said:


> Thanks for your reply. I realize you had problems and understand that you may not want to try Directv again. However, what are your options? Since the cable DVR doesn't work, what other program providers are there? I suggest Directv because they have a DVR that works with software that you like.
> 
> As far as weather causing loss of signal, if your dish is installed propertly you should not have a problem except when it rains really hard. I probably lose my signal for a total of an hour a year. However, it is not a big problem because I receive my local digital channels over the air. They never go out since local channels aren't affected by weather (assuming you have a good signal and are not on the edge of your local reception).
> 
> ...


Thank you for the great information. We had some problems with loss of signal during the dust blows out here. I should note, I don't recall losing our signal outright that often, but certainly reception tended to vary greatly under even what I thought was relatively normal weather conditions (light rains, very mild dust storms, etc.).

Has satellite addressed the interface lag at all? It certainly wasn't deal breaking for me, but I recall there being pauses between most actions in the menus and channel changes.

My last consideration is internet services. I have a 5MB connection over Cox shared with my digital cable services, but without having digital cable, the highest they will feed is 3MB. That as of about 9 months ago. Their policy may have changed on this.

Thank you for the interesting feedback. One way or another, I am definitely not going to keep going this route. Today was most definitely the straw that broke the camel's back. If it wasn't for a nest of pricey component cables hindering me, the 8300HD would have definitely gone off the back deck, over the wall, and onto the street behind my house.

Edit: I agree with your assesment of OnDemand. I think I love the idea more than I actually get use out of it. When I sit back and really take the time to think about it, I've probably only used it maybe 10 times since the beginning of the year. I liked it best during the HBO Rome series, but before we had the chance to watch the end of series one, the last episode (and frustratingly ONLY the last episode), was dropped from programming. Go figure.


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## Bardman (Aug 26, 2002)

Instill, with a properly working DVR (Think Tivo), you actually create your own OnDemand situation... Teach the Tivo what you like (through Thumbs) and it will have a nice list of shows for you to watch at your leisure.

Where do you live where you're getting dust storms? I lived in Yuma, AZ for 5 years and did lose satellite signal for about 3 minutes at a time when a dust (sand) storm would brew. Have you ever seen cable go out for "only" three minutes??

As for the "being able to watch different shows on different TVs", you just need to get a receiver for each TV. Yep, PQ may be soft, but would you rather have watched


Spoiler



Denny Hamlin


 win at Pocono with a soft picture or none at all?


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## MarkBarbieri (Aug 16, 2005)

I have tried a large antenna in the attic. I haven't tried roof mounting. I really don't want a big ugly antenna on my roof. I have friends a bit farther out that have even tried that and failed. I'm about 40 miles from the towers and have lots of trees around the house, particularly in the direction of the towers.

I think I'm about ready to give up on the cable. I cannot find a way to remove channels from the guide. My wife has decreed that the porn channels will not be showing up on the guide either by removing them via software or dropping the service.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> ...If TiVo is the criteria, he will be forced to sign a two year contract and the HR10 will likely be phased out by the end of the year. (YES, I know it will still work, but I think the OP will be upset to learn that next year he can't buy a series 3 and is stuck with whatever pathetic offerings still work with the HR10...)


I'm a little confused by this. I was under the impression you could lease a HR10, which would not incur a contract. Maybe not. I think the 2-year stipulation is to offset the low price of the box, should you choose to buy it outright. STBs are typically sold for a loss so that the vendor can make money back on the monthly services. That's been the DBS business model from day one.

Also, how can a company ask for a 2-year contract and then remove the services that would be exclusively available using that box during the contract period? I think that would invite a class action suit, and a slam dunk at that.

IOW, whatever the "pathetic offerings" that a HR10 could get next year would have to probably be the same offerings it gets today, plus whatever might be added as MPEG-2. I wouldn't expect legacy HD to move to MPEG-4 any time soon, and I would expect OTA, which has as good of a PQ as is possible on any STB, to never go away for the lifetime of every HR10 in service. That doesn't really fit the definition of "pathetic", not next year nor 4 years from now.

Of course if you lease, they can swap you to a non-Tivo box as soon as they ship, if they ever actually do ship. If you need regional sports nets or (4 of the big 7) locals from sat in HD, then maybe sacrificing the Tivo interface for a M4 box makes sense. If you don't need the RSN and get OTA, it probably is going to turn out to be a very bad move.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

TyroneShoes said:


> I'm a little confused by this. I was under the impression you could lease a HR10, which would not incur a contract. Maybe not. I think the 2-year stipulation is to offset the low price of the box, should you choose to buy it outright. STBs are typically sold for a loss so that the vendor can make money back on the monthly services. That's been the DBS business model from day one.
> 
> Also, how can a company ask for a 2-year contract and then remove the services that would be exclusively available using that box during the contract period? I think that would invite a class action suit, and a slam dunk at that.


Your impression is incorrect, they require a 2 year committment.

If they remove services from the HR10, it will be becausee they are offering a free upgrade to something else (HR20). So I don't see how that would invite a class action lawsuit, if they are making you whole.

Also it is not so much a 'contract' meaning they HAVE to provide you with the same services as you signed up for. You are agreeing to subscribe to a 'base package' for 2 years. The channel line up can change at any time. It's IN the contract, so you agree that they can delete channels if they want...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

MarkBarbieri said:


> I'm in a similar situation. I've got DirecTv with 2 HD-250s. My house is in the woods and I can't get OTA HD. On Friday I has Time Warner install a couple of HD DVRs because I can't take another football season without an HD DVR. I don't consider ESPN HD an ESPN2 HD enough. I don't consider HD without a DVR good enough.
> 
> My problem is that I was in no way prepared for how pathetic the SA 8000 boxes I got would be. Wholly smokes, these things or horrible. One is having some obvious problems and now won't connect to digital content. The other works like I think it is supposed to, but I'm staggered by how bad it is. Maybe I just haven't learned to work it well yet, although the lack of a decent manual doesn't help.
> 
> ...


Good list. I will add to it.

6) My SA8300HD turns itself off for no apparent reason, even though I have checked the settings many times that there is no auto-turnoff.

7) I had two boxes in 2 days. The first one would not stop "recording" one of the channels despite it never saving anything on that channel.

8) Last night, my HDMI connection freaked out. No error code, just blinking on and off. Other outputs were normal. Required pulling plug on SA unit.

9) Dumb thing doesn't remember where you were when you turn it off. Goes back to channel 999 (no setting to do otherwise).

10) Absolutely no first run/rerun capability.

11) The box is an HD box, so why does the PIP have a 4:3 ratio and is not shoved way out of the way when using it?

BTW, 1), 2) and 3) are particularly annoying.

I would rather have the Moto unit that my friends have in another county. Far better system.

There are a few good things. PQ is very good and the


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

I have had a lot of experience selecting and installing over the air TV antenna. If the posters who have had problems care to post their zipcode, I will check your situation and see if I can give you a recommendation as to what antenna to try. There are some good antennas and a lot of junk antennas.

If you want to do some reading on your own:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> I'm a little confused by this. I was under the impression you could lease a HR10, which would not incur a contract. Maybe not. I think the 2-year stipulation is to offset the low price of the box, should you choose to buy it outright. STBs are typically sold for a loss so that the vendor can make money back on the monthly services. That's been the DBS business model from day one.
> 
> Also, how can a company ask for a 2-year contract and then remove the services that would be exclusively available using that box during the contract period? I think that would invite a class action suit, and a slam dunk at that.
> 
> ...


You can terminate the DIRECTV contract by returning the Directv equipment to Directv. However, you will be out the money you paid to "purchase" your leased receiver.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

instill said:


> Tonight I was watching a program I taped on Discovery HD and the system suddenly froze. The LCD then said, "F A I L". Just as I got up to go over and try to power cycle it, the box rebooted itself. Earlier in the week the box taped ONLY the first 5 seconds of all of my programs for the evening. Inexplicable.
> 
> Also, now about 1 in 5 programs record with a distinct popping/clicking sound that occurs about every 1 minute.
> 
> Keep in mind this is my SECOND brand-new, fresh out of the box 8300HD.





instill said:


> OK NOW I AM REALLY PISSED.
> 
> After I typed my last response, I switched on the box and fired up my recorded program list. I selected Indy racing and immediately knew something was wrong. It said, "Length: 56 minutes." Now I know there is no way in hell ESPN squeezed an Indy race into under an hour.
> 
> ...


BTW, your problems all sound signal related. You may want to do a search and find out how to drop into the 8300HD diagnostic screens ... I suspect you'd see some things there (S/N ratio, signal level, etc) that would explain your problems ...

Anyway, I'd call your cable company. Tell them you have a problem with signal quality and you want them to send someone with a spectrum analyzer to measure your levels (at the drop and each outlet).

Diagnose and fix as required ...


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

dt_dc said:


> BTW, your problems all sound signal related. You may want to do a search and find out how to drop into the 8300HD diagnostic screens ... I suspect you'd see some things there (S/N ratio, signal level, etc) that would explain your problems ...
> 
> Anyway, I'd call your cable company. Tell them you have a problem with signal quality and you want them to send someone with a spectrum analyzer to measure your levels (at the drop and each outlet).
> 
> Diagnose and fix as required ...


Using your suggestion, I found the diagnostic information and created the following post on avsforum.com (same place I found the info): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8084817#post8084817

I can see some of the problems being signal related, but other issues are definitely software and poor QA and/or construction of the unit itself. Other issues I didn't list in that thread but others have already listed in this one were the PIP problems, and more.

Another poster asked what my zip code is: 89052 (Las Vegas)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

A new one.

My 8300 turned itself off again last night. I turned it on. All was well until I got a LOUD screaching noise on Showtime HD. I changed channels, thinking it was a Showtime problem. After 30 seconds on HBO HD, same thing.

I thought it might be a HDMI error but it showed up on my RF output as well.

Nice box Comcast is foisting on me. Will be very happy if they do Moto/TiVo here.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

Instill, I recommend you reconsider Directv. Your zip code shows you are about 5 miles from the TV transmitters. You should have no problem getting your local HD channels over the air with an multidirectional indoor antenna. If you get Directv, you can get an HD Tivo which has the software interface you love and works very reliabley. It is a good solution for local HD channels received over the air and the existing set of HD channels from Directv along with their low def channels. 

It is important that you are able to receive the local channels over the air because HD Tivo (HR10-250) is not able to receive the local channels via satellite because it will not decode MPEG4. Since you are so close to the towers it should not be a problem. 

Does your HDTV have a built in digital tuner? If so you can test for local digital channel reception so see what you get. 

Just so you know, local channels and Directv channels are integrated into the same program guide and you can record all channels just like you are used to doing.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

instill said:


> Using your suggestion, I found the diagnostic information and created the following post on avsforum.com (same place I found the info): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8084817#post8084817
> 
> I can see some of the problems being signal related, but other issues are definitely software and poor QA and/or construction of the unit itself. Other issues I didn't list in that thread but others have already listed in this one were the PIP problems, and more.


Yes, there's lots of software related 'issues' ... but the general flipping out / not recording / partial recordings / etc ... that's signal related. Or ... inter-related (poor error handling, whatever). The stuff that you were most upset about in your posts above.

Anyway, yes, the software does have its ... ah ... limitations.

But, once the signal issues are taken care of ... Well, at least it will actually record what you tell it to.

I can deal with a DVR that doesn't handle PIP exactly the way I want it to. I can't deal with a DVR that doesn't record what I want it to.

I had signal problems when I first got the 8000HD and had the exact same issues as you. Since I got the signal issues takes care of, I haven't missed a recording (or had any partial recordings, or any of the various other recording issues you mentioned).


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## jes218 (Feb 10, 2005)

I have the SA 8000HD, and although I hate the thing, I haven't missed a show. I miss the TiVo interface, but can wait for S3.

My question is: Is there any noteworthy difference between the SA 8000HD and the SA 8300HD? Should I risk "upgrading" or just leave well enough alone?


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## MarkBarbieri (Aug 16, 2005)

My zip is 77382. I think I'm about 35 miles out. I have a two story house, but it's surrounded by tall trees. I'm not interested in an outdoor antenna. I wouldn't be particularly popular with the neighbors if I went that route.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

MarkBarbieri said:


> My zip is 77382. I think I'm about 35 miles out. I have a two story house, but it's surrounded by tall trees. I'm not interested in an outdoor antenna. I wouldn't be particularly popular with the neighbors if I went that route.


I am 25 miles out I get a good signal through a very dense nothern minnesota forrest. Who cares what the neighbors think not like you are painting your house lime green. If my neighbors bugged me about my 3 foot outdoor antenna I would laugh in their faces. If they think an outdoor antenna is bad how about my set up of 3 dishes on 3 big ass posts to pull in each satelite seperately. They will have to take my outdoor antenna from my cold dead hands because I sure in the hell am not going to give up viking games in HD.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

jes218 said:


> I have the SA 8000HD, and although I hate the thing, I haven't missed a show. I miss the TiVo interface, but can wait for S3.
> 
> My question is: Is there any noteworthy difference between the SA 8000HD and the SA 8300HD? Should I risk "upgrading" or just leave well enough alone?


I had the SA8000 and was shocked at how poor the HD picture quality was. This was resolved with the SA8300. Also, the 8300 should have a working HDMI port.


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## Runch Machine (Feb 7, 2002)

MarkBarbieri said:


> My zip is 77382. I think I'm about 35 miles out. I have a two story house, but it's surrounded by tall trees. I'm not interested in an outdoor antenna. I wouldn't be particularly popular with the neighbors if I went that route.


It's your loss. You are about 40 miles from the towers. All but one station comes from the same spot. You'd get everything but i(pax) with a Channel Master 4221. They are 20" wide and 35" tall, sort of like a screen from a window.

OTA reception is the way to get best picture quality from your local stations. Most of what I watch comes in for free OTA.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

jes218 said:


> I have the SA 8000HD, and although I hate the thing, I haven't missed a show. I miss the TiVo interface, but can wait for S3.
> 
> My question is: Is there any noteworthy difference between the SA 8000HD and the SA 8300HD? Should I risk "upgrading" or just leave well enough alone?


I just got an SA8300HD yesterday. Don't have the HD plasma yet (in a few weeks) so I can't comment on HD quality, although I've heard it's very good. SD recordings look slightly better than Tivo Best quality.

My first impressions are -- pleasantly surprised. The TWC 8300 has most of the features of Tivo (pretty much everything except wishlists), two tuners, and 90 hrs of standard recording (20 hrs HD). The interface is pretty good. Not bad for a free box and $8.95/mo fee. It has a SATA port and have some new revisions that implement an external USB HD for more storage space -- although that is not quite happening yet.

The box's reliability is another issue. I've read about many freezes, reboots, etc. and the unit has rebooted once while we were performing various functions -- not good. We'll have to see how flakey it is in the long run, or if programs are not recorded. In any case, I've read that the SA8300 is a big improvement over the SA8000. I would upgrade.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

skanter said:


> The TWC 8300 has most of the features of Tivo (pretty much everything except wishlists), two tuners, and 90 hrs of standard recording (20 hrs HD).


Wow. Who in their right mind would come out with a HD DVR with LESS space than the HR10???

20 hours? Huh... and how is it 90 SD an 20 HD? HR10 is 250 SD and 25 HD...


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

Adam1115 said:


> Wow. Who in their right mind would come out with a HD DVR with LESS space than the HR10???
> 
> 20 hours? Huh... and how is it 90 SD an 20 HD? HR10 is 250 SD and 25 HD...


Don't ask me -- different encoding? 

If they do get the external SATA drive thing working, you could add as much space as you wanted externally.


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

skanter said:


> I just got an SA8300HD yesterday. Don't have the HD plasma yet (in a few weeks) so I can't comment on HD quality, although I've heard it's very good. SD recordings look slightly better than Tivo Best quality.
> 
> My first impressions are -- pleasantly surprised. The TWC 8300 has most of the features of Tivo (pretty much everything except wishlists), two tuners, and 90 hrs of standard recording (20 hrs HD). The interface is pretty good. Not bad for a free box and $8.95/mo fee. It has a SATA port and have some new revisions that implement an external USB HD for more storage space -- although that is not quite happening yet.
> 
> The box's reliability is another issue. I've read about many freezes, reboots, etc. and the unit has rebooted once while we were performing various functions -- not good. We'll have to see how flakey it is in the long run, or if programs are not recorded. In any case, I've read that the SA8300 is a big improvement over the SA8000. I would upgrade.


I sat down to watch Akira Kurasowa's Yume tonight, a Japanese movie with many short dream sequences each directed by notables like Martin Scorsese. Anyway, the recording was cut short by about 30 minutes. No obvious reason. The 8300HD just stopped recording and clipped off the end of the movie. Another programming taping at the same time continued to record. There was only about 2 hours worth already on the drive so no space problems there. Unreal.

And as I've already mentioned, try using the "record for X hours longer" function. For example, taping a race or a football game you tack on an extra hour or two to ensure you don't miss any overtime. Give it a try. It's worth a laugh. The 8300HD just ignores your request. It prompts a confirmation but doesn't do a damn thing with it. Does not record the extra time and reviewing scheduled recordings shows no adjustment to your input. Hilarity ensues. I've missed the end of about 14 NASCAR races this year thanks to that little bit of programming wonder.

Despite the great feedback about Directv from this thread, I've opted to not go with satellite again. My 5mbps internet connection would get dropped to 3mbps and would increase by another $15/month. HD is a little "smooth" and I really don't like the idea of multiple dishes and antennas. Also my Southern side is backed up against a mountain range and we catch some screaming canyon dust blows that would certainly dampen signal for a couple hours at a stretch. Instead, I've decided to go back to the TiVo 2 with an HD tuner. I'll get TiVo again, but now I won't have HD recording capability.

It'll be like being blasted back into 2003 and now I'll have to go back to planning my Sundays around games and races again. But, at least I'll have TiVo and at I'll avoid smashing the 8300HD into a million tiny fragments. I'm sure Cox would hand me a nice fat bill for that one.

Meanwhile, I'll keep waiting for that damn TiVo 3 which should have been here years ago. I'm sure the cable card issue is going to be a whole 'nother mess to deal with but I'll get to that when it comes.

Thanks to everyone that replied with the suggestions and feedback about Directv and other options. Especially you Runch Machine, thanks man! This thread saved my 8300HD from being sailed off my back deck at least three times this past week. But who knows, the FedEx return box (with my standard HD tuner) won't be here until Tuesday, so it might catch some air yet.


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

skanter said:


> Don't ask me -- different encoding?
> 
> If they do get the external SATA drive thing working, you could add as much space as you wanted externally.


I could be wrong, but while digging into the diagnostics menus per suggestions earlier in this post, I was made to understand the external SATA functions are disabled by the vendors. There were settings that expressly detailed this function as disabled and locked.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

instill said:


> I sat down to watch Akira Kurasowa's Yume tonight, a Japanese movie with many short dream sequences each directed by notables like Martin Scorsese. Anyway, the recording was cut short by about 30 minutes. No obvious reason. The 8300HD just stopped recording and clipped off the end of the movie. Another programming taping at the same time continued to record. There was only about 2 hours worth already on the drive so no space problems there. Unreal.
> 
> And as I've already mentioned, try using the "record for X hours longer" function. For example, taping a race or a football game you tack on an extra hour or two to ensure you don't miss any overtime. Give it a try. It's worth a laugh. The 8300HD just ignores your request. It prompts a confirmation but doesn't do a damn thing with it. Does not record the extra time and reviewing scheduled recordings shows no adjustment to your input. Hilarity ensues. I've missed the end of about 14 NASCAR races this year thanks to that little bit of programming wonder.
> 
> .


So far, our box hasn't had these poblems (keeping fingers crossed).


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

Here's the latest:

I returned the 8300HD box to Cox, surprisingly intact. I then picked up a brand new 3250HD. When I got home, I installed the box and waited through the necessary boot. Took the time to haul out my 30-hour ST TiVo S2 and get that plugged in.

Finally the 3250HD finished its boot cycle and, no HD channels. Says account does not have access. Just finished an over 30-minute long phone call with Cox tech while they did the RF hit and then forced a reboot. Still no HD channels. They verified the account settings and confirmed everything was in order. Scheduled a tech to come out Friday...

While on the phone I asked about Cox's cablecard support and said I wanted to get a TiVo S3 soon as they drop. Technician says, "Cablecards are awful. We get so many complaints about them. They constantly have problems. Plus no Entertainment On Demand (EOD). Most everyone I send a cablecard to calls back within 6-months and demands a box again."

I asked why Cox's cablecards are so unreliable when companies like Directv have been using a reliable and sturdy card system for many years now. He then gave me some mumbo about, "Well the satellite cards are connected to the dish so they are safe. But the cablecards are connected to the TV so when the power goes out we have to send a technician." I asked who pays for the technician service call and the tech said, "We do. It's part of your service." I then asked, "Then wouldn't Cox save a lot of money by investing in cablecard technology that was a bit more reliable?" To which the tech responded, "We aren't really interested in cablecards because Cox offers their own superior DVR that features EOD and HD recording capability. Our boxes are all-in-one and we don't ask our customers to pay for them." !!! I then said, "Does that mean you are going to refund me the $9.95 in rental fees I paid for the 8300HD DVR for the last 9-months?" The response, "No..."

Next I move back to starting back up with TiVo...

I boot up the TiVo S2 and bask in the warm, fuzzy intro animation. I then do the auto-connect and update the guide. Then-- oops!! I forgot TiVo only picks up direct connect channels up to about 100. Meaning, no Speed Channel (Formula 1), etc. Ouch. Oh man.

I then call 877-BUY-TIVO and ask a rep what's the latest on the S3. He says, "The S3 is coming out in October-" and he gives me the full bio on the box. I'd heard it all before but I don't mind listening again. I just wish the damn thing was out already! I then ask what do I do with my 1-year agreement when the S3 comes out. Can I transfer the sub to the new box and shelve this one again? He says they don't know yet. They may allow that, they may only offer a $6.95 additional box discount. He says it has not been decided yet. Good to know.

So as of right now, I'm with a SA-3250HD which has a surface temperature hotter than the surface of the sun (don't they put heat sinks in this thing?), sitting on a shelf above my 30-hour ST TiVo S2. No HD and no DVR past ch100. It's like 2003 all over again. 

BUT... at least I know I'm not going to miss any of the Allstate 400 at the Brickyard come Sunday. And now my family loves me again (it's all about the *boop!* sound I'm telling you) and they can finally stop listening to me threaten to throw the 8300HD over the fence.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

skanter said:


> My first impressions are -- pleasantly surprised. The TWC 8300 has most of the features of Tivo (pretty much everything except wishlists), two tuners, and 90 hrs of standard recording (20 hrs HD). The interface is pretty good. Not bad for a free box and $8.95/mo fee. It has a SATA port and have some new revisions that implement an external USB HD for more storage space -- although that is not quite happening yet.


Man, would you be offended if I laughed very, very hard when I read this post?

Let's see. You cannot search for ANYTHING except show titles starting with a letter on a day-by-day basis thru a long scrolling list that lists every occurence of a show as a seperate entry.

There is no way to tell the unit to record first run only.

The dual tuner isn't dual buffer (like TiVo's dual tuner).

Conflict resolution? Ha! And no messages to tell you what happened/will happen.

You cannot filter out channels you don't get from the guide.

There are a TON of things that DON'T work like Tivo.

The PQ is good, I will admit, and the unit is faster, but I will continue to rely on my TiVos for the heavy lifting.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Man, would you be offended if I laughed very, very hard when I read this post?
> 
> Let's see. You cannot search for ANYTHING except show titles starting with a letter on a day-by-day basis thru a long scrolling list that lists every occurence of a show as a seperate entry.
> 
> ...


Which software v. do you have -- is it Sara or Passport? We may have different features...I found the search feature BETTER in some ways than Tivo's. It actually greys out letters that cannot be used in combinations to find a name in the listings, making it easier to enter. Mine records first run or repeats. I only have a single tuner Tivo so I don't know much about conflict resolution...it also has complex genre listings that can be quite useful, and a "keywords" feature similar to wishlists.

edit: At this point, it seems the version I have has almost everything Tivo has, including wishlists. As far as I know, the Passport software has a much better feature set than the SARA. You may have the inferior software -- tough luck.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Man, would you be offended if I laughed very, very hard when I read this post?
> 
> Conflict resolution? Ha! And no messages to tell you what happened/will happen.


I just tried to record three shows at once. When I put in the third, it asked me which of the other two I would like to cancel.

Sounds like you don't have the latest software...


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

skanter said:


> I just tried to record three shows at once. When I put in the third, it asked me which of the other two I would like to cancel.
> 
> Sounds like you don't have the latest software...


I had this issue too. It didn't happen every single time, but every once in a while a program that had a conflict would not report as such and would simply ignore the record request or not record one of the original programs. This happened to us about a half dozen times, that we know of. Specifically, during episodes of 'Last Comic Standing' -- very annoying!


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

instill said:


> I had this issue too. It didn't happen every single time, but every once in a while a program that had a conflict would not report as such and would simply ignore the record request or not record one of the original programs. This happened to us about a half dozen times, that we know of. Specifically, during episodes of 'Last Comic Standing' -- very annoying!


SARA only checks for conflicts when the recording is entered. So if there are conflicts when the recording is entered ... it will tell you.

However, 'All Episodes' recordings cause problems. A show time changes later down the road ... overlaps 2 (or more) other recordings ... causes conflicts ...

SARA won't tell you ... and (most versions of the software) won't record any of the shows. The latest software seems to have some sort of simplistic conflict resolution. I'm not sure what it's based on (no real season-pass type prioritization) ... but at least it will record two of the shows when there's a conflict.

Passport has much better prioritization / conflict resolution.


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## dt_dc (Jul 31, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> There is no way to tell the unit to record first run only.
> 
> The dual tuner isn't dual buffer (like TiVo's dual tuner).


It sounds like you have SARA.

Having the 'first run' ability (or not) is based on guide data. If guide data has the first-run flag ... you'll have an option to record first-run only. If it doesn't ... you won't have that option.

If your cable company upgrades to the latest version of the guide data software ... you'll get the 'first run' option. Otherwise ... no data ... no option.

If you want the dual tuner to act as a dual buffer, try pressing 'record' on both channels. On the version of SARA that I have ... that will let the unit act like a 'dual buffer' (if you remember to pause before switching channels).

As always, YMMV may vary (depending on software version).


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Adelphia in SW VA put out an update to their SA 8300HD software about 2 months ago. One of its features is its occasional failure when scheduling programs (freezing, displaying "FAIL", rebooting) It may happen at other times, but I just use it for HD and digital SD (I use MS XP MCE for most SD material). I had not noticed this behavior before the update. It's too bad that neither the cable companies nor SA seem to have much interest in putiing out a great product and correcting problems.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

dt_dc said:


> SARA only checks for conflicts when the recording is entered. So if there are conflicts when the recording is entered ... it will tell you.
> 
> However, 'All Episodes' recordings cause problems. A show time changes later down the road ... overlaps 2 (or more) other recordings ... causes conflicts ...
> 
> ...


Passport lets me prioritize season passes in order just like Tivo -- only much faster.


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

Sorry, but after reading through this thread I couldn't help but reply to some of the complaints (some valid, many not valid.) In particular the Mark & Tony list from above.

To put things in perspective I've owned a SA8000HD, switched to the SA8300HD when it came out, own a Sony DHG-HDD500, and have an HTPC w/ Two Tuners, and have used TiVo but got rid of it due to capacity and image quality



> 1) Can't remove stations from my list. There are lots of music stations, foreign language stations, shopping channels, and such that I never want to see. Why can't I get them out of the guide? Heck, I can't even keep stations that I don't subscribe to from showing up. Nothing's more fun than searching for a show my kids want, finding it, and then telling them that we don't actually get that station so we can't watch it.
> 
> [CC] I personally don't find this to be an issue, but I can see that it can be an annoyance. But I also have just about every channel available. I think this may depend on how well the cable operater sets the channel lineup too, ours has good seperation between different tiers.
> 
> ...


Basically, the majority of complaints I see about the SA8300HD fall into two categories

1.) I've been spoiled to death by TiVo and even though SA8300HD kicks ass compared to previous generations of recording devices (i.e. DVD Burners, DVHS, SVHS, VHS, Beta, ....) I'm gonna cry like a baby because it ain't got the 'Patented' features that TiVo has.

2.) This box is faulty as all hell because I can't figure out how to use it properly. PS: I never could figure out how to get my VCR to stop flashing 12:00

That said, I do want a S3 when they come out, and if the Digital Sat's didn't have such crappy picture quality I probably would have switched to back to one of them and used a TiVo Sat setup.

I really like the TiVo features that are unique to TiVo and that TiVo has sued over. But I'm not willing to sacrifice image quality to get it when there is equipment out there that can actually do a hell off a job as a DVR if you have a bit of patience.

Flame Away :up:

CCourtney


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

CCourtney said:


> I really like the TiVo features that are unique to TiVo and that TiVo has sued over. But I'm not willing to sacrifice image quality to get it when there is equipment out there that can actually do a hell off a job as a DVR if you have a bit of patients.
> 
> CCourtney


That only works for doctors...


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

skanter said:


> That only works for doctors...


I'm an Engineer, I'm suppose to figure out how to make things work by applying my knowledge, not spell 

Seriously though, sorry for using a plural form of one noun that sounds exactly like the other noun, which is the noun form of the adjitive that I actually pluralized.

Did you follow that?

Yoda Says, "Patience, the patients; have not"


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

CCourtney said:


> I'm an Engineer, I'm suppose to figure out how to make things work by applying my knowledge, not spell
> 
> Seriously though, sorry for using a plural form of one noun that sounds exactly like the other noun, which is the noun form of the adjitive that I actually pluralized.
> 
> ...


I got it; but you might want to double-check those *adjitives!*


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## CCourtney (Mar 28, 2006)

skanter said:


> I got it; but you might want to double-check those *adjitives!*


All I can say is thank goodness that MS Outlook automatically checks my spelling at work  Too bad it doesn't check to make sure I don't put in a where for were or their for there. Or the odd patients for patience. I'm more interested in patents than patients anyway.

I know I can hit the spell check button here, but then we wouldn't have been able to continue this conversation 

CCourtney


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## bferrell (Jun 22, 2005)

Runch Machine said:


> I am still curious...
> 
> The reason you won't try Directv and HD Tivo is____________.
> 
> I am amazed with how much people are willing to suffer with crappy cable box DVRs.


I won't because it would cost more than my cable service (I've priced it out), and DTV is moving away from Tivo, and I know folks that have had issues with picture quality and weather. Thus, I'd rather wait for S3. If DTV were competitively priced and were going to continue supporting Tivo, I would move today.

Brett


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

instill said:


> Thanks for the suggestions gang. I'm dying here. This 8300HD is driving me absolutely mad. At least 2 or 3 times this week I came within a hair of unplugging it and pitching it off my back deck.
> 
> Tonight I was watching a program I taped on Discovery HD and the system suddenly froze. The LCD then said, "F A I L". Just as I got up to go over and try to power cycle it, the box rebooted itself. Earlier in the week the box taped ONLY the first 5 seconds of all of my programs for the evening. Inexplicable.
> 
> .


My 8300HD recorded only half of a program the other night -- an old episode of West Wing. I had, however, accidentally recorded the same program on my S2 Tivo -- and it had frozen in the same spot for a few minutes, then did finish recording.

I later found out that there was a short brownout at that time. The Tivo was plugged into a UPS, but the cable box was not.

Perhaps your problems are related to power issues such as this?


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

skanter said:


> My 8300HD recorded only half of a program the other night -- an old episode of West Wing. I had, however, accidentally recorded the same program on my S2 Tivo -- and it had frozen in the same spot for a few minutes, then did finish recording.
> 
> I later found out that there was a short brownout at that time. The Tivo was plugged into a UPS, but the cable box was not.
> 
> Perhaps your problems are related to power issues such as this?


Thanks for the suggestion skanter. Although this may be an issue for some, I am confident it's not an issue for me. I have an alarm clock in my office with no internal battery. Any power interupts we have this clock goes null. Also my phone service is VoIP and the box requires a power cycle whenever there is a network or power problem. Last, I'm using a Monsterpower on this box and LCDTV.

I had a Cox technician check out all of my jacks and the sink out front and he confirmed everything was perfectly within signal limits. Said returns were a little jumpy in the 8300HD history, but that shouldn't cause any of the problems I described.

I also asked this tech about the reliability of cablecards and he said they get a terrible rap at Cox because the phone service reps never handle the support issues correctly and have a lot of problems diagnosing issues that should be addressed over the phone. Often times techs get sent out needlessly -- which is exactly what happened to me with my HD channels when I received my new HD-only (no DVR) box. After spending a long time on the phone, having to schedule a tech, the guy shows up, turns on my TV, turns on the box, calls customer service and tells them to fix my profile, then a second later the HD channels pop on. He turns to me and says, "It was all on their end. They shouldn't have sent me." He then gave me a month of HBO. So I'll get a few eps of Lucky Louie out of it.


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

instill said:


> Thanks for the suggestion skanter. Although this may be an issue for some, I am confident it's not an issue for me. I have an alarm clock in my office with no internal battery. Any power interupts we have this clock goes null. Also my phone service is VoIP and the box requires a power cycle whenever there is a network or power problem. Last, I'm using a Monsterpower on this box and LCDTV.
> 
> I had a Cox technician check out all of my jacks and the sink out front and he confirmed everything was perfectly within signal limits. Said returns were a little jumpy in the 8300HD history, but that shouldn't cause any of the problems I described.
> 
> I also asked this tech about the reliability of cablecards and he said they get a terrible rap at Cox because the phone service reps never handle the support issues correctly and have a lot of problems diagnosing issues that should be addressed over the phone. Often times techs get sent out needlessly -- which is exactly what happened to me with my HD channels when I received my new HD-only (no DVR) box. After spending a long time on the phone, having to schedule a tech, the guy shows up, turns on my TV, turns on the box, calls customer service and tells them to fix my profile, then a second later the HD channels pop on. He turns to me and says, "It was all on their end. They shouldn't have sent me." He then gave me a month of HBO. So I'll get a few eps of Lucky Louie out of it.


I had two non-HD SA boxes that would both turn off every few days rendering Tivo useless. I had the TW cable guys come up numerous times, and they -always- found some problem in the cables, signal, etc. Unfortunately, after fixing the problem the boxes continued to turn off. When one cable guy said the boxes were getting "tired", I realized thay didn't have a clue and insisted on new boxes. The new boxes worked perfectly, never turned off.

I don't know what the moral of the story is, except maybe keep exchanging boxes until you get a good one. My 8300HD seems to be fine so far (keeping fingers
crossed) awaiting new HD plasma panel in a few weeks.

BTW, Lucky Louie is FUNNY!


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## slowmo (Aug 5, 2006)

Yes, cable boxes suck compared to TiVo but, at this point, I'm not willing to migrate to D* only for the HD Tivo box given its relatively short remaining useful life (and we can ignorantly debate how short or how useful). If I was motivated to move to D* for other reasons, then different answer. If D* would add the one freakin' channel (Style) that my wife absolutely requires to its SD line-up, I'd switch out the entire house!

Meanwhile, I sit like many others waiting on the holy grail S3. 

I have a crappy 8300 connected to cable, a S2 TiVo connected to cable (might as well use its improved functionality for analog channels even though the 8300 provides better video / audio given the enhanced connections), and an old OTA box that is rarely used given the lack of HD DVR despite the fact that my OTA signal is superb (2 miles from towers)!

The 8300 / 8000 are crappy but they do record HD with two tuners. And I never hesitate to drive down to the customer service office to change out boxes any time one starts to act up.


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

My pre-activated TCD649080 DT arrived direct from TiVo yesterday. Now I'm trying to figure out how to add a second HD to the thing to increase the capacity. If anyone that has been following this thread has insight on that, I'd love to hear it!

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4272779#post4272779

What I finally ended up doing was knocking all of the movie channels out of my Cox plan, and downgrading to extended digital with HD programming. My new monthly bill, which includes VoIP, one HD box, ext-digital+HDTV, and 5MB internet connection, is now about $110 after all is said and done. My bill with the SA-DVR and HBO was coming in at about $165, so I'm saving $55/month.

I went with the TCD649080 because it seemed like the best deal going right now. I also have a brand new Western Digital 250gb IDE drive still sitting in it's anti-static sleeve, so I'm hoping that can be employed. With the $30 special TiVo is offering right now, and the monthly agreement to knock the bill down to the < $15/month stage, I end up saving myself around $40/month by ditching HBO (rarely used) and that horrific Scientific Atlanta DVR.

I still get all of my HDTV programming, VoIP, and internet, but now I get a DT TiVo at the loss of an HD-DVR that gave my family and I nothing but 9-months of utter grief. By not switching to Directv, I also saved a bundle in hardware outlay and installation costs and unbundling my Cox plans would have cost me another $75+ right off just to maintain services.

The final reassurance is that TiVo has my record noted in a case file in which sales promised an either free or < $6 transition to the S3 boxes, whenever I decide to make the leap, without breaking contract.

Overall I feel a gigantic weight off of me and can finally put this SA business to bed. Now if only I can find a way to get that 2nd drive into the 80hr DT, life will be grand.

Thanks to everyone that read and posted here and I hope this thread saved as least one other person out there a lot of unnecessary grief.


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

Does everyone here realize the TiVo DT's will record HD channels??

After setting up my TiVo S2 DT to interface with the cable provided SA-3270HD box, I was stunned to see that not only do HD channels come through in all their glory (albeit piped across S-Video which causes a slight reduction in sharpness), they will record too! I didn't discover this until almost two weeks after unpacking my new S2 DT and selecting a Discovery HD program I thought was on the regular Discovery channel. It recorded the HD channel perfectly. Since then I've recorded a number of other HD programs, all within the TiVo guide, and they all played back fine.

So what's the point of getting the S3 and dealing with the CableCard issues then? Beyond the slight bump in sharpness. The way I look at it, a S2 DT married to a cable-service HD box, is just as good, playback-wise, than had I switched to the slightly blurry Directv TiVo.

I'm floored this doesn't get advertised. Had someone told me at the start of this thread the S2 DT's record HD channels just fine, I would have made the plunge long ago. I couldn't be happier now! I get the best of both world's with TiVo, a dedicated cable-provided and warrantied HD box, and I keep my packaged VoIP, internet, and extended programming+HD service, without losing a thing! I even saved a couple bucks.


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## Fahtrim (Apr 12, 2004)

instill said:


> Does everyone here realize the TiVo DT's will record HD channels??
> 
> After setting up my TiVo S2 DT to interface with the cable provided SA-3270HD box, I was stunned to see that not only do HD channels come through in all their glory (albeit piped across S-Video which causes a slight reduction in sharpness), they will record too! I didn't discover this until almost two weeks after unpacking my new S2 DT and selecting a Discovery HD program I thought was on the regular Discovery channel. It recorded the HD channel perfectly. Since then I've recorded a number of other HD programs, all within the TiVo guide, and they all played back fine.
> 
> ...


As stated in the other thread, the Series 2 TIVO cannot receive or record an HD signal. You are recording what seems to be a very clear (to your eyes) 480I signal. (IE HD signal downrezzed by your cable box and then sent to your TIVO box via the RF out.)


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

Fahtrim said:


> As stated in the other thread, the Series 2 TIVO cannot receive or record an HD signal. You are recording what seems to be a very clear (to your eyes) 480I signal. (IE HD signal downrezzed by your cable box and then sent to your TIVO box via the RF out.)


I'm not using RF out. I'm using S-Video out so yes, to my eyes and I would assume most others as well, the picture is very good. I said it was not quite up to par with component in my OP and also provided what I would consider to be a very good comparison of clarity versus Directv HD.


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## slimoli (Jul 30, 2005)

instill said:


> I'm not using RF out. I'm using S-Video out so yes, to my eyes and I would assume most others as well, the picture is very good. I said it was not quite up to par with component in my OP and also provided what I would consider to be a very good comparison of clarity versus Directv HD.


You are not recording HD, just a good decent SD. . The signal from a HD channels passing through the S-Video becomes a SD 480i. I believe that the recording shows a pretty good picture but when you compare to a real HD (not the HD-LITE provided by D*) the difference is night and day.

Sergio


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## skanter (May 28, 2003)

After having it for about a month, I've gotta agree with instill about 8300HD -- it sux big time!

Since I started recording HD material, it constantly reboots, fails to record all or parts of programs, and is just unreliable in general. I have no problems with it's UI or software, but if the box is unreliable, what good is it?

Last night it gave off some unexplained, weird alarm sound for no reason. Had to reboot during recording to get it to stop.

Get me a reliable S3 -- please!


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## Lenarro (Mar 4, 2005)

I agree, the8300HD is like Tivo with cancer. Just waiting for the S3.


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## instill (Jul 3, 2006)

FINALLY!!! TivoHD ordered on 7/24. Cannot wait! I've gone without an HD-capable DVR for almost a full year!


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