# Would like to buy Bolt, but house is wired with coax



## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

Hello - I received the offer from TiVo to convert my lifetime service (on my Series 2) for $99 if I purchase a Bolt. Would do it in a second, but I have coax running to two different TVs in the house from my Series 2. I really don't have the option of running other cables through the house, and I don't want to buy a Bolt for each TV. Any suggestions for having a Bolt and using the coax? Or am I just out of luck. Thank you.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I'm not really sure what you're asking. Coax is generally required, so it's usually not a "but" situation.

Are you saying that you're outputting video from your Series 2 to two different TVs via the RF output of the Series 2?

The typical upgrade for your scenario is to install a BOLT at one TV and a TiVo Mini at the other, with the Mini networked to the BOLT via MoCA (over the coax). The one drawback to this setup is that it would lack simultaneous synchronized playback on both TVs... without some alternate technology involved.

Additional info:

BOLT only outputs HDMI
Mini can output HDMI, component and composite


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## rcoates777 (Jun 29, 2005)

Read up on MoCA and consider buying a TiVo Mini. This should give you what you need. The MoCA (provided by the Bolt) will let you use your existing coax for the required Ehternet connections. You'd need a TiVo mini for each set and they go for $150 each.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I can't help but wonder, if the Series 2 can do it, can't the Bolt do it as well.

That being said, as other have noted, your set-up is ideal for a Mini, which would allow you to do what you're currently doing over the coax but also have the ability for the 2 TVs to be tuned to separate shows.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> I'm not really sure what you're asking. Coax is generally required, so it's usually not a "but" situation.
> 
> Are you saying that you're outputting video from your Series 2 to two different TVs via the RF output of the Series 2?
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response. You are correct. I split the coax rf output from the Series 2, one branch to tv A, and one to tv B. We have very small rooms, so both tvs are wall mounted with feeds coming through the attic from the central TiVo location. So my restrictions are: 1) I want to keep the TiVo "centralized" (no peripheral devices in the rooms), and 2) My budget is limited to the $99 service fee and the one TiVo Bolt device at $299. (You will understand #2 better if you are married.) So, I probably can't make this work using coax (HD bandwidth exceeds coax capacity, I believe).


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You could (although it's a bit further 'out there'...) Split the HDMI signal and send it over the coax with a HDMI Over Coax Adapter (go figure...).

Those are likely to blow your budget a bit.

You're STILL not watching HD, though?

-KP


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

How about: get the $199 Bolt and buy a Mini with the $100 savings plus a few pizzas? 

And even better: buy the $199 Bolt with a credit card that provides price protection, and then file a claim on the Bolt price as compared to the $50-$75 lower price you can find for it at Amazon.com, etc. Using that extra $ to pay for the balance of the Mini.

Just a thought.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> How about: get the $199 Bolt and buy a Mini with the $100 savings plus a few pizzas?


I expect they *are* looking at the $200 500GB BOLT, but are including the All-in/Lifetime service fee in their $300 figure.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> 1) I want to keep the TiVo "centralized" (no peripheral devices in the rooms), and 2) My budget is limited to the $99 service fee and the one TiVo Bolt device at $299. ... So, I probably can't make this work using coax


It doesn't sound like it, not with the BOLT, itself, consuming your entire budget -- and the BOLT having only HDMI output.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Offered without endorsement*...

Portta HDMI to AV/CVBS Composite + Audio Toslink Spdif Coax Mini Converter v1.3
+
RCA Compact RF Modulator (CRF907R)

* may not work at all, or may just look awful -- though you have a week-plus to get them and test them before the BOLT offer deadline.


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> I can't help but wonder, if the Series 2 can do it, can't the Bolt do it as well.


Not necessarily - the old S2 had two features not available on a Bolt:
1. It could "phone home" on a real phone line - no network needed. I'm not even sure TiVo still supports that at the mother ship, but it is a difference nonetheless.
2. It could output low-quality video over a coax connection to an old SD type TV on either channel 3 or 4, just like the old VCRs did. It seems that this feature is what is important to the OP (*although I just cannot imagine anyone being willing to watch such a terrible quality picture in this day).

The solution has already been identified by other posters, but may still cost more than he has available: Place a new Lifetime Bolt ($300) at one TV, and place a new Mini ($150) at the other one. This would give full modern functionality with four tuners at both TVs that far exceedes the old S2 capabilities for a total price of $458 max (including a POE filter for the MoCA).


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> How about: get the $199 Bolt and buy a Mini with the $100 savings plus a few pizzas?
> 
> And even better: buy the $199 Bolt with a credit card that provides price protection, and then file a claim on the Bolt price as compared to the $50-$75 lower price you can find for it at Amazon.com, etc. Using that extra $ to pay for the balance of the Mini.
> 
> Just a thought.


Well done. I like it.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> You could (although it's a bit further 'out there'...) Split the HDMI signal and send it over the coax with a Coax Over HDMI Adapter (go figure...).
> 
> Those are likely to blow your budget a bit.
> 
> ...


Right - still not watching HD. There seems to be a solution with, for example, HDMI Extender over CAT5 - 5 Year Warranty. This requires a pair of these for each cable - expensive to protect legacy infrastructure.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

jmsbnd said:


> - expensive to protect legacy infrastructure.


Maybe it's time to upgrade your infrastructure to CAT 6? Since distances are short, you might be able to do it yourself with cables from monoprice.com.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

jmsbnd said:


> Right - still not watching HD. There seems to be a solution with, for example, HDMI Extender over CAT5 - 5 Year Warranty. This requires a pair of these for each cable - expensive to protect legacy infrastructure.


Well, you said you don't have cat5, so you'd be stuck with HDMI over coax, which are ~$100 premium over cat 5. The units I installed last week, which were NOT constrained by this budget, included I/r. It ended up that the RF function worked well enough from ~40' that we didnt bother with it.
Using a balun like this is a solution to not running new wire.
-KP


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

rcoates777 said:


> Read up on MoCA and consider buying a TiVo Mini. This should give you what you need. The MoCA (provided by the Bolt) will let you use your existing coax for the required Ehternet connections. You'd need a TiVo mini for each set and they go for $150 each.


So I think what you're talking about is the attached diagram. However, what I'm not getting is where is the coax "out" that goes through the house over coax to the remote TV?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There is no "coax out" or RF modulator for HD, so your old system isn't going to work. But luckily TiVo has a whole house system that works way better then that anyway and requires no additional wiring on your part. 

Both the Bolt and the Minis have a networking standard built in called MoCa, which uses your coax cables instead of needing ethernet. So all you need to do is hook up the Bolt in the room where your S2 is now and then get a Mini for each of the secondary TVs. Enable MoCa on all of them and boom you're back up and running. Best part about this setup, over what you're using now, is thatyou can actually watch something different in eery room simultaneously.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> View attachment 28639
> 
> So I think what you're talking about is the attached diagram. However, what I'm not getting is where is the coax "out" that goes through the house over coax to the remote TV?


MoCA is bidirectional. The MoCA signals flow in and out of the coax port on the BOLT, the same coax port through which the BOLT receives its TV signal.

MoCA is just networking over coax lines, with TiVo's MoCA implementation (MoCA Band D) operating at RF frequencies above those used for OTA antenna and cable TV, allowing MoCA to coexist on the same coax lines as OTA or cable signals.

OTA: 40-806 MHz
Cable: 5-1002 MHz
MoCA*: 1125-1675 MHz

* MoCA Band D + MoCA 2.0 Extended Band D​The only MoCA adapters you'll find bridge between MoCA(coax) and Ethernet networking. If that's not what you're looking to do, then MoCA isn't what you're looking for. For those with a TiVo whole home solution, MoCA's a great fit since the TiVo Mini has built-in MoCA connectivity and most recent TiVo DVRs* support bridging between Ethernet and MoCA.

* TiVo DVRs w/ MoCA bridging support: 4-tuner Premieres, 6-tuner Roamios, BOLT & BOLT+​


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

Dan203 said:


> There is no "coax out" or RF modulator for HD, so your old system isn't going to work. But luckily TiVo has a whole house system that works way better then that anyway and requires no additional wiring on your part.
> 
> Both the Bolt and the Minis have a networking standard built in called MoCa, which uses your coax cables instead of needing ethernet. So all you need to do is hook up the Bolt in the room where your S2 is now and then get a Mini for each of the secondary TVs. Enable MoCa on all of them and boom you're back up and running. Best part about this setup, over what you're using now, is thatyou can actually watch something different in eery room simultaneously.


First, an apology for my being an idiot on this product and technology, although I am slowly learning. I like your description. Graphically, is it like the attached house diagram? It sounds like if money is no object, I just need a Bolt with the cable/antenna coax coming into it, and a Mini at each TV. Now for the idiot part - where the diagram shows the two coax cables connecting to the Bolt, how does that physical connection actually occur? Or do I lay the cables close to the Bolt and magic happens?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It depends on how your coax is setup. Does each room have a cable/antenna feed? If so connect the Minis to that and ignore the coax you use to use for the video distribution. If not then what you want to do is add a splitter right behind the Bolt. Connect the input side to the cable/antenna feed, then connect the output legs one directly to the Bolt and the other to your distribution coax. That will bridge the two halves so that the Bolt's MoCa signal can reach the other rooms.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> I just need a Bolt with the cable/antenna coax coming into it...


Are you using your Series 2 for OTA antenna or for cable TV? (With just a single cable it would have to be one or the other, of course, since the signals overlap.)

Also, just to confirm, you're OK with NOT being able to have synchronized playback across both TV screens? (The simple TiVo whole home solution allows both devices to play the same content simultaneously, but the playback would not be automatically synchronized and each device and its playback would be controlled separately.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> It sounds like if money is no object, I just need a Bolt with the cable/antenna coax coming into it, and a Mini at each TV.


Given your diagram, you've removed the requirement that no additional boxes be present at either TV location...


jmsbnd said:


> We have very small rooms, so both tvs are wall mounted with feeds coming through the attic from the central TiVo location. So my restrictions are: 1) I want to keep the TiVo "centralized" (no peripheral devices in the rooms)



If that's the case, your diagrammed solution could be simplified by putting the BOLT at one TV and a Mini at the other... though the BOLT *is* slightly larger than a Mini and has additional cooling requirements, if the plan was to somehow mount the devices behind the TVs.

One other question... Does your Series 2 currently have an Ethernet connection? Where do you have Ethernet access available? Just in the current Series 2 location, or do each of your TV locations also have Ethernet connections to your home network available?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Note, also, that your current diagram doesn't account for a video display connection for the BOLT, which would be required for many management functions: configuring received channels, checking TV signal reception, forcing TiVo service connections, toggling access to streaming services... to name a few.

Also, be aware that the Minis lack the same TV channel surfing abilities of a TiVo DVR. While a DVR can hop between its multiple tuners, each with its own buffer, a Mini is allocated a single tuner and each channel change will reset the buffer.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Graphically, is it like the attached house diagram?


Diagrams are SUPER helpful. Any chance you could produce one that captures ALL of your current setup, including all available coax and Ethernet runs (used or unused), and your Internet and home networking gear? Your proposed setup could be optimized depending on what other connectivity is available (and also dependent on your responses to the questions in the previous few posts).

If you're considering the TiVo whole home setup (i.e. DVR + Mini), understand that the raw TV signal is only needed at the DVR. The DVR is responsible for all tuning duties, and the tuned content, whether live or recorded, is streamed over the home network from the host DVR to the Mini. Any streaming app content, on the other hand, is streamed directly from the streaming service to the receiving device over the home network; a Mini's host DVR is not involved in streaming app playback -- outside enabling app access or if the host DVR is also acting as the MoCA networking bridge for a MoCA-connected Mini.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Are you using your Series 2 for OTA antenna or for cable TV?


Oh, if using OTA antenna, could you possibly share a *TV Fool* (or *other*) antenna coverage report for your location? (e.g.) It'd help with understanding the frequencies occupied on your coax lines by your TV signals.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

S2 units don't work with OTA any more. Unless I guess he's using a digital receiver box and an IR blaster.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> S2 units don't work with OTA any more. Unless I guess he's using a digital receiver box and an IR blaster.


Right; pretty much the same for most cable TV providers, as well... signal fed via external tuner.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You mentioned that your TV's are wall-mounted, but don't say if they have HDMI connections or not...

-KP


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## PCurry57 (Feb 27, 2012)

jmsbnd said:


> Hello - I received the offer from TiVo to convert my lifetime service (on my Series 2) for $99 if I purchase a Bolt. Would do it in a second, but I have coax running to two different TVs in the house from my Series 2. I really don't have the option of running other cables through the house, and I don't want to buy a Bolt for each TV. Any suggestions for having a Bolt and using the coax? Or am I just out of luck. Thank you.


while I'm aware tiptoe already indicated a bias against what's going to be a superior solution. I'm going to offer it anyhow, add one more piece of equipment, no subscription required. Add a TiVo Mini for the extra TV. There is a benefit to this as well, both TV's can watch different programs at the same time.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 (SM-T817P)


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Diagrams are SUPER helpful. Any chance you could produce one that captures ALL of your current setup, including all available coax and Ethernet runs (used or unused), and your Internet and home networking gear? Your proposed setup could be optimized depending on what other connectivity is available (and also dependent on your responses to the questions in the previous few posts).
> 
> If you're considering the TiVo whole home setup (i.e. DVR + Mini), understand that the raw TV signal is only needed at the DVR. The DVR is responsible for all tuning duties, and the tuned content, whether live or recorded, is streamed over the home network from the host DVR to the Mini. Any streaming app content, on the other hand, is streamed directly from the streaming service to the receiving device over the home network; a Mini's host DVR is not involved in streaming app playback -- outside enabling app access or if the host DVR is also acting as the MoCA networking bridge for a MoCA-connected Mini.


First, thanks to ALL of you for your responses - I'm humbled and amazed at your willingness to help an idiot. Also apologies to those that may need psychiatric help after reviewing my infrastructure. To KRKAUFMAN: well, you asked for diagrams... not sure if these are as cleanly organized as you'd like, but here we go: Notes page (see other photos for reference), TiVo Series 2, 47 & 42 inch wall-mounted TVs, Spectrum/Brighthouse (Arris) cable modem for internet only, TV Tuner, RF Modulator.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Thanks for the detailed info. Will review further.

Really need this basic requirement of your setup to be resolved...


krkaufman said:


> Also, just to confirm, you're OK with NOT being able to have synchronized playback across both TV screens? (The simple TiVo whole home solution allows both devices to play the same content simultaneously, but the playback would not be automatically synchronized and each device and its playback would be controlled separately.)


Do you require the ability for the TiVo content to be displayed simultaneously, and synchronized, on both TVs as you currently can with the single Series 2 outputting to both locations?


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

BTW - I've been reading about setting up a Moca network using Bolt. It indicates that after connecting the coax from the wall the the Bolt, I need to connect the Bolt to my home network via Ethernet. My "home network" is comprised of a coax cable from my old Series 2 to TV A and a different coax cable from the same Series 2 (via splitter) to TV B. Not sure where Ethernet comes in on my "home network".


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Thanks for the detailed info. Will review further.
> 
> Really need this basic requirement of your setup to be resolved...
> ​Do you require the ability for the TiVo content to be displayed simultaneously, and synchronized, on both TVs as you currently can with the single Series 2 outputting to both locations?


Unsynchronized playback is not an issue for me.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> BTW - I've been reading about setting up a Moca network using Bolt. It indicates that after connecting the coax from the wall the the Bolt, I need to connect the Bolt to my home network via Ethernet. My "home network" is comprised of a coax cable from my old Series 2 to TV A and a different coax cable from the same Series 2 (via splitter) to TV B. Not sure where Ethernet comes in on my "home network".


Your home network consists of whatever is on "this" side of your router's built-in firewall, which typically means whatever is connected to the Ethernet ports of the router or connected wirelessly to your router's built-in wireless access point. Your coax lines only become part of your home network once a MoCA network has been established on them.

Which brings us to the tech specs you uploaded for your Arris TG1672 gateway. Did you notice the "MoCA" mention... ?










It appears that your cable gateway (combo modem/router) is capable of establishing a MoCA network, *assuming your cable provider allows the MoCA feature to be enabled. *You'll want to get this checked-out ASAP. If you can use your gateway to establish a MoCA network, the BOLT just needs a coax connection and would be configured as a MoCA client -- once the MoCA signal has been made available at the BOLT's coax connection. (More on this later, once you know whether you can enable MoCA on the TG1672.)


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

(And, a commercial break:

jmsbnd, despite all the information in this thread, this likely will be pretty simple, in the end. Really. People here are just gathering info. on your needs and equipment to make things as simple and correct as possible, for those givens.

Here are some TiVo networking/MoCA links that I've found helpful, for understanding matters generally.

Connect your TiVo® box to your home network

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Installation_Setup_Configuration/MoCA-Networking-Help)


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## V7Goose (May 28, 2005)

jmsbnd said:


> BTW - I've been reading about setting up a Moca network using Bolt. It indicates that after connecting the coax from the wall the the Bolt, I need to connect the Bolt to my home network via Ethernet. My "home network" is comprised of a coax cable from my old Series 2 to TV A and a different coax cable from the same Series 2 (via splitter) to TV B. Not sure where Ethernet comes in on my "home network".


How does your S2 connect to Tivo for daily updates? Do you still use a dial-up phone line, or do you have a network adaptor connected to a USB port?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Not to throw a wrench in the direction the thread is taking, but... _(wrench sails overhead)..._ if you're JUST looking for updated tech to replace your existing functionality, a 1TB Roamio OTA w/ All-In service plan (currently $347 via Amazon) connected to a simple RF modulator ($11) via the Roamio's composite A/V output port (TiVo A/V Breakout Cable ~ $15) would replicate pretty much exactly what you have now, but with most of the latest TiVo functionality. (Same as the earlier multi-adapter suggestion for the BOLT, but without the uncertainties of the HDMI-to-composite conversion.)

And... you could later easily add a TiVo Mini at either or both TV locations if/when you wanted to add FullHD quality viewing, possibly at no additional cost beyond the Mini if your cable gateway can establish your MoCA network.

The final twist is that I'd still recommend taking advantage of the BOLT upgrade opportunity. Buy the BOLT, the Roamio OTA and needed parts, then resell the BOLT w/ All-In ASAP (or whenever is most advantageous)... to pay for the Roamio OTA & parts, with likely a chunk of cash leftover to help pay for a Mini.

There are functional diffs between the BOLT and 4-tuner Roamio, the primary being a lack of mobile streaming in the Roamio, but I didn't want to leave the option unmentioned, given your stated budget concerns -- and that you've been OK for this long w/ the S2 setup.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Your home network consists of whatever is on "this" side of your router's built-in firewall, which typically means whatever is connected to the Ethernet ports of the router or connected wirelessly to your router's built-in wireless access point. Your coax lines only become part of your home network once a MoCA network has been established on them.
> 
> Which brings us to the tech specs you uploaded for your Arris TG1672 gateway. Did you notice the "MoCA" mention... ?
> 
> ...


I am traveling tomorrow but will get back to you on this in the next day. Thank you.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

I just spoke with Spectrum and they said when they were Brighthouse (before being bought by Spectrum), they actually used Moca for intra house comms between devices. Spectrum has eliminated Moca capability from all of their equipment. So, not an option for me.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> I just spoke with Spectrum and they said when they were Brighthouse (before being bought by Spectrum), they actually used Moca for intra house comms between devices. Spectrum has eliminated Moca capability from all of their equipment. So, not an option for me.


Bummer. So even if you could get it enabled on your own, there's no guarantee that Spectrum wouldn't disable it via a firmware update, or some other operation. So, yeah, probably wouldn't want to rely on the gateway, then, as your MoCA bridge. NOTED.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Not to throw a wrench in the direction the thread is taking, but... _(wrench sails overhead)..._ if you're JUST looking for updated tech to replace your existing functionality, a 1TB Roamio OTA w/ All-In service plan (currently $347 via Amazon) connected to a simple RF modulator ($11) via the Roamio's composite A/V output port (TiVo A/V Breakout Cable ~ $15) would replicate pretty much exactly what you have now, but with most of the latest TiVo functionality. (Same as the earlier multi-adapter suggestion for the BOLT, but without the uncertainties of the HDMI-to-composite conversion.)
> 
> And... you could later easily add a TiVo Mini at either or both TV locations if/when you wanted to add FullHD quality viewing, possibly at no additional cost beyond the Mini if your cable gateway can establish your MoCA network.
> 
> ...


Wow! Missed this earlier. Very good thinking. However, my urgency in getting this original posting out there with you guys was, with a ticking clock (April 10 offer ends), deciding between staying with my current Stone Age network (low res image, but my lifetime service is paid for (at least until the machine quits - I should never have typed that)), or knowing with some confidence that I can get the new stuff to work over coax. (Even if I could get a low res image from Bolt to my TVs, like I have now, that would inspire me to buy the Bolt and continue to figure out the HD later. At least I'd have new equipment and lifetime service.) So, while I like your thinking on the Roamio, I still need to be sure about the Moca pipeline.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> (at least until the machine quits - I should never have typed that)


ha!


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## InFromTheCold (May 29, 2008)

jmsbnd said:


> Wow! Missed this earlier. Very good thinking. However, my urgency in getting this original posting out there with you guys was, with a ticking clock (April 10 offer ends)...


Didn't the gentleman from TiVo say over the weekend that the deal is definitely going to be in effect through the 28th? (I realize that's not what it says in the offer.) I'm sorry I don't have the heart to search for it, but I'm sure I saw it.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

InFromTheCold said:


> Didn't the gentleman from TiVo say over the weekend that the deal is definitely going to be in effect through the 28th? (I realize that's not what it says in the offer.) I'm sorry I don't have the heart to search for it, but I'm sure I saw it.


Yes, @Ira Bahr, TiVo's CMO (Chief Marketing Officer) had made that comment in one of the posts announcing the upgrade offer. I'm trying to find confirmation of that as priority number 1.

>This post.<



Ira Bahr said:


> Trey Dio said:
> 
> 
> > Is the expiration date 4/10 or 4/28? Email says 4/10 but the web page says 4/28.
> ...



Though I'm not sure if the sale can last until the 28th if they've already run out of stock on the 1TB BOLT model... and the following footnote from the web page certainly contradicts Ira's statement, which was also undercut by the removal of the 1TB BOLT option:

1 TiVo reserves the right to terminate this promotion at any time without notice. *Offer ends April 10, 2017, or while supplies last.* Certain restrictions apply. Only TiVo Series 2, Series 3, HD and HDXL DVR users who have connected to the TiVo network between 3/28/16 and 3/28/17 qualify. Offer valid with TiVo BOLT purchase on TiVo.com or with TiVo Sales Support (877) BUY-TIVO or (877) 289-8486.

(sale link)​edit: p.s. Note that Ira responded to a post citing a 4/28 end of the sale per the web site -- but it appears that the web site has since been updated to reflect the April 10th end-date.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

One possible simple solution is suggested by the terms of the upgrade sale...

_"Your current box will be deactivated 10 days after you connect to the TiVo service." (sale link)
_​Pull the trigger on the BOLT upgrade, giving you time to ponder your options. The 10-day timer on your S2's service would only start ticking after you've fired-up the BOLT and connected it to the TiVo service -- if you ever do.

edit: p.s. see also...


Mikeguy said:


> As to the 10-day grace period: I asked about that today and was told that it starts when you set your box up, not when the box ships or is received. Helpful if one is away when the box arrives or is too busy to deal with it right away.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

InFromTheCold said:


> Didn't the gentleman from TiVo say over the weekend that the deal is definitely going to be in effect through the 28th? (I realize that's not what it says in the offer.) I'm sorry I don't have the heart to search for it, but I'm sure I saw it.


Ira Bahr/TiVo did say that, but I became less "complacent" when I read here last night that the 1TB Bolt already is sold out (and when I asked TiVo about this today, that was confirmed for me, and the sales rep. did not know if more would be coming).

Add to that the language that krkaufman points to above (which I don't believe was in the email that I had received from TiVo) concerning the possibility that the promotion could be ended earlier, and I'd say, buy sooner rather than later, if interested (as in, now). You always have 30 days in which to return, if you decide differently in the end, and TiVo picks up the return shipping.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

To emphasize...


Mikeguy said:


> You always have 30 days in which to return, if you decide differently in the end, *and TiVo picks up the return shipping*.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... Alerted via another TCF thread, here ...

"Renewed" 500GB Roamio OTA w/ All-In service for $250

Note that this sale ends on Thursday, April 7 (72-hour sale) ... or while supplies last.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Could you possibly share a *TV Fool* (or *other*) antenna coverage report for your location? (e.g.) Or a zip code?

I'm trying to determine the channels you receive and the frequencies they occupy.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

Re. The product attached here, can I use this and use an SDI to Coax converter cable?


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Could you possibly share a *TV Fool* (or *other*) antenna coverage report for your location? (e.g.) Or a zip code?
> 
> I'm trying to determine the channels you receive and the frequencies they occupy.


Hopefully this is what you're looking for...


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

jmsbnd said:


> View attachment 28663
> Re. The product attached here, can I use this and use an SDI to Coax converter cable?
> View attachment 28661


Ummm...yeah...See post 6?

-KP


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

Although, the devices you posted don't seem to include I/R Signal Transmission. Depending on your installation, it could be an issue. (see post 15?)

-KP


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

kpeters59 said:


> Ummm...yeah...See post 6?
> 
> -KP


I did. I thought you were referring to an rf modulator approach where I'd still have th coax plugged in to the tv like I do now. My question on the above (2 boxes - one HDMI to coax, coax to hdmi at the other end) was whether anyone has experience or knowledge of these (these are $25 apiece - seems awfully cheap compared to similar device at hdtvsupply at $300 a pair). Also, if these would work, can you simply put a converter cable or plug at each end (sdi to coax and coax to sdi).


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

I've installed quite a few HDMI over Coax Adapters. The ones I've used seem fairly robust. I'd recommend you get units with integrated I/R.

Also, don't cheap out too much on the HDMI Splitter. I've had several from a well-known 'budget' supplier fail.

You'll REALLY like the HD upgrade!

-KP


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

FYI to all - pulled the trigger and Bolt arrives Saturday. Traveling but when I get back, I'll use the education you've given me and see if I can make something work. I'll let you know what I come up with. Thank you again for all your help!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Given that TiVo *does* cover return shipping, I'll again toss out the $250 Roamio OTA w/ All-In as a fallback option -- noting that the OTA sale ends on the 7th. Couldn't hurt to have both units on-hand to decide which works best for you -- though a mobile streaming requirement would rule-out the Roamio OTA, in my opinion. Adding a Mini for experimentation would be another option.

From the terms of TiVo's 30-day Money-back guarantee...

_TiVo offers a 30-day Money-Back Guarantee, including complimentary return shipping (from within the 48 contiguous United States), for all TiVo BOLTs, TiVo Roamios and TiVo Minis purchased directly from tivo.com.

You may return your TiVo BOLT, TiVo Roamio or TiVo Mini for any reason within 30 days of your order shipment purchase date, provided that the unit is not damaged and that all original packaging, accessories and documentation accompany such return._​


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Given that TiVo *does* cover return shipping, I'll again toss out the $250 Roamio OTA w/ All-In as a fallback option -- noting that the OTA sale ends on the 7th. Couldn't hurt to have both units on-hand to decide which works best for you -- though a mobile streaming requirement would rule-out the Roamio OTA, in my opinion. Adding a Mini for experimentation would be another option.
> 
> From the terms of TiVo's 30-day Money-back guarantee...
> 
> ...


I agree. I am going to purchase the Roamio also. (Can you tell me if the "mobile streaming" means within my home or anywhere on the planet?)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> I agree. I am going to purchase the Roamio also. (Can you tell me if the "mobile streaming" means within my home* or anywhere on the planet?*)


Chuckle. What I mean by *"mobile streaming"* is streaming or downloading your TiVo DVR-tuned TV content to *compatible mobile devices* (some iOS and Android phones and tablets), PCs & laptops, and even the Fire TV via an app in "beta" state. Out-of-home mobile streaming can be limited by copy protection settings, but that's usually not an issue for any OTA-tuned content, as well as geography (I believe; i.e. you may not be able to stream to _anywhere_ in the world, but I'm not sure on this one).

More info on mobile streaming here, but also check Dan203's mobile streaming FAQ, here.

The 4-tuner Roamio models lack the built-in hardware for mobile streaming, and the TiVo Stream standalone device which could add mobile streaming support for a 4-tuner Roamio or Premiere setup appears to be out of production and no longer offered via TiVo's online store. (6-tuner Roamios and both BOLT models have built-in mobile streaming support.)

That said, the 4-tuner Roamio OTA *is* capable of the _most_ critical TiVo streaming function... support for TiVo Minis. (And, of course, all the Internet streaming service apps that have been made available for the TiVo platform.)

edit: p.s. Note that some have found Slingbox devices to be a preferable alternative to TiVo's mobile streaming solutions. YMMV.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Chuckle. What I mean by *"mobile streaming"* is streaming or downloading your TiVo DVR-tuned TV content to *compatible mobile devices* (some iOS and Android phones and tablets), PCs & laptops, and even the Fire TV via an app in "beta" state. Out-of-home mobile streaming can be limited by copy protection settings, but that's usually not an issue for any OTA-tuned content, as well as geography (I believe; i.e. you may not be able to stream to _anywhere_ in the world, but I'm not sure on this one).
> 
> More info on mobile streaming here, but also check Dan203's mobile streaming FAQ, here.
> 
> ...


Thanks again, o great font of knowledge. I'm going to order the Roamio today. Like I said, will let you know what I come up with.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Thanks again, o great font of knowledge. I'm going to order the Roamio today. Like I said, will let you know what I come up with.


Happy to help w/ any planning or support. I've just kinda lost the plot on requirements and budget, and throwing _(or continuing to throw) _variations of possible solutions through the transom doesn't seem productive.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Current discussion on BOLT out-of-home mobile streaming, here.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Happy to help w/ any planning or support. I've just kinda lost the plot on requirements and budget, and throwing _(or continuing to throw) _variations of possible solutions through the transom doesn't seem productive.


You've been a HUGE help. Courtesy summary: 1) I am going to check with my provider to determine which Moca compatible modems I can buy and replace theirs with; 2) Set up the Bolt on Moca in central room; 3) Purchase a Mini for each room and connect via Moca. While this may appear to be a happy ending, adding costs for 1, 2, and 3 and then presenting the case to my Chief Financial Officer may result in a completely different plan entirely. And if you don't hear from me again, she replaced me .


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> While this may appear to be a happy ending, adding costs for 1, 2, and 3 and then presenting the case to my Chief Financial Officer may result in a completely different plan entirely. And if you don't hear from me again, she replaced me .


Chuckle!

One approach might be to only install a single Mini, then getting the same quality picture on the other TV can be HER idea; even better, say you're just testing out a single Mini, to prove the MoCA functionality, but will be returning it until such time as it fits in the budget. Let her sit in on the "testing" and she may *make* you install them both.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Just addressing your suggested setup plans...


jmsbnd said:


> 2) Set up the Bolt on Moca in central room;


(2.a) If the new DVR will be placed in your closet, along with your router (current TG1672), then* the new DVR should be connected to the router via Ethernet*, and...

(2.b) How you'll establish your MoCA network will be dependent on which DVR you settle on...

*BOLT : *Connected via both Ethernet and coax, you could configure the MoCA-capable BOLT as your MoCA bridge, to establish your MoCA network;

*Roamio : *Were you to opt for the Roamio as your DVR, since the Roamio OTA lacks any MoCA functionality you *would* need to upgrade to an owned MoCA-capable gateway, *OR* just buy a MoCA adapter for installation at the router location, to establish your MoCA network. See here for retail MoCA adapter options.​... though how _exactly_ you'll get this MoCA signal down to your Minis would need to be the subject of a followup post, once your requirements were better understood.



jmsbnd said:


> 1) I am going to check with my provider to determine which Moca compatible modems I can buy and replace theirs with;


(1) As covered above, you may not need or want your cable gateway to be your MoCA bridge;



jmsbnd said:


> 3) Purchase a Mini for each room and connect via Moca.


(3) When you get the BOLT in your hands and understand its dimensions, know that your setup could be simplified to just a BOLT and single Mini if you could find a way to hide the BOLT behind your wall-mounted TV -- without resulting in excessive heat retention.

edit: p.s. There IS this, found via a quick google... Wall Mount for TiVo® Bolt™ | HIDEit Bolt .... though it's currently available for $5 less and eligible for Prime shipping via Amazon, >here<.

p.p.s. TCF discussion on wall mounting a BOLT, >here<.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> *OR* just buy a MoCA adapter for installation at the router location, to establish your MoCA network. See here for retail MoCA adapter options.


I recommend acquiring a MoCA adapter for your setup, to keep it as simple as possible. You can grab one at retail, see if TiVo will cut you a deal on one, or pick something up off eBay. Though the BOLT would benefit from a MoCA 2.0 adapter being used as the bridge, a MoCA 1.1 adapter would suffice to provide up to 100 Mbps bandwidth to the BOLT.

Also, I wanted to call your attention to a cheap alternative to the retail MoCA adapter options... picking-up an Actiontec/Verizon MI424-WR *Rev. I *router w/ MoCA bridging (see eBay)... but down-configuring it to act strictly as a MoCA adapter. The Rev. I version of the MI424-WR supports MoCA 1.1 and Gigabit Ethernet, so can provide 140+ Mbps of throughput, and being stuffed in a closet means its being oversized relative to a simple MoCA adapter shouldn't be an issue. Just one option; YMMV; there's a lot to be said for paying the additional premium to have a plug-and-play MoCA adapter as the bridge.

p.s. See also this post for some decent auction prices on extended/bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Chuckle!
> 
> One approach might be to only install a single Mini, then getting the same quality picture on the other TV can be HER idea; even better, say you're just testing out a single Mini, to prove the MoCA functionality, but will be returning it until such time as it fits in the budget. Let her sit in on the "testing" and she may *make* you install them both.


Intelligent AND wise - well done, lad.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Ok, so the following diagram demonstrates one way to upgrade your system, harkening back to post #2 in the thread, a BOLT at one TV and a Mini at the other, providing:

FullHD video available at each TV location, and up to 4K at the BOLT;
live antenna feed direct to Mini TV, and optional live TV feed to BOLT-connected TV (signal strength allowing);
wired Ethernet accessibility at BOLT location via MoCA-connected BOLT's Ethernet port (see here for more info);
NO synchronized playback across the TV screens (well, except for direct live TV, if enabled at both locations);

NOTES:

An antenna/satellite diplexer is used in the closet to join the antenna (40-806 MHz) and MoCA (1125-1675 MHz) signals onto the coax lines heading to your two TVs. (add'l info on using diplexers w/ MoCA setups here)

A "PoE" MoCA filter is installed on the "ANT (VHF/UHF)" port of the closet diplexer to ensure FCC happiness, by preventing your MoCA signals from emanating from your antenna. (a bit more on "PoE" MoCA filters here)

An antenna/satellite diplexer has been employed at the Mini location to direct just the signal needed to each device -- OTA antenna signal to the TV and the MoCA signal to the Mini -- in order to allow the HDTV to tune live TV off the antenna should the Mini be unable to grab a free tuner from the BOLT. (A splitter could be used here, as well, but a diplexer incurs less signal loss.)

A splitter could be used at the BOLT location to effect the same result; however, a diplexer could NOT be used at the BOLT owing to the BOLT requiring both the antenna _and_ MoCA signals.

If a bit more signal is needed at the BOLT location, the closet diplexer/splitter arrangement could be adjusted to bypass the OTA antenna signal around the 2-way splitter, sending the OTA antenna signal ONLY down the BOLT coax line -- sacrificing the option for direct live TV at the Mini-connected TV.










p.s. parts is parts


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Ok, so the following diagram demonstrates one way to upgrade your system, harkening back to post #2 in the thread, a BOLT at one TV and a Mini at the other, providing:
> 
> FullHD video available at each TV location, and up to 4K at the BOLT;
> live antenna feed direct to Mini TV, and optional live TV feed to BOLT-connected TV (signal strength allowing);
> ...


You are amazing, Dude!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

FYI... The alternate approach below is nearly identical to the previous diagram, though a bit more traditional... but would result in slightly less raw OTA signal power at the Mini-connected TV. The BOLT should still be seeing the same signal level _(edit: actually a slight boost, owing to removal of the diplexer)_, assuming you were to use an unbalanced 3-way splitter and connect the low-loss output to the BOLT coax run.






​


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Curious, you have just the single coax run to each wall-mounted TV location, right?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> You are amazing, Dude!


You misspelled 'obsessive.'


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Curious, you have just the single coax run to each wall-mounted TV location, right?


Correct. By the way, as today is the Roamio deal expiration, I was going to pull the trigger n that one too. However, I'm wondering - can't I assume that if I can get one working (Bolt or Roamio), do I really need to try the other. Again, happy to order it, just thinking they're fairly similar in connectivity. Any thoughts?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Correct. By the way, as today is the Roamio deal expiration, I was going to pull the trigger n that one too. However, I'm wondering - can't I assume that if I can get one working (Bolt or Roamio), do I really need to try the other. Again, happy to order it, just thinking they're fairly similar in connectivity. Any thoughts?


There's ZERO need for the Roamio OTA if you're good with the in-room BOLT installation as described/illustrated in the previous posts, and its cost.

View attachment 28676
View attachment 28679​
However...

1) If you're looking to place the DVR in the closet and need to distribute its video output in the same fashion as you're currently broadcasting the Series 2's output, then the Roamio OTA was a backup should the HDMI-to-RF conversion from the BOLT not produce an acceptable picture.

2) The Roamio OTA offered a budget approach whose functional expansion (i.e. addition of Minis) could be partly funded by the resale of the All-In BOLT.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> There's ZERO need for the Roamio OTA if you're good with the in-room BOLT installation as described/illustrated in the previous posts, and its cost; however...
> 
> 1) If you're looking to place the DVR in the closet and need to distribute its video output in the same fashion as you're currently broadcasting the Series 2's output, then the Roamio OTA was a backup should the HDMI-to-RF conversion from the BOLT not produce an acceptable picture.
> 
> 2) The Roamio OTA offered a budget approach whose functional expansion (i.e. addition of Minis) could be partly funded by the resale of the All-In BOLT.


Got it. Thank you.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

jmsbnd said:


> Got it. Thank you.


Roamio is ordered. (CFO not yet fully engaged.)


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Dump of closeted DVR diagrams...

























​One for the BOLT, one for the Roamio OTA, and variations for each to enable MoCA for Mini connectivity.

NOTE: I primarily wanted to convey the basic DVR-only setup contrasted w/ what would be needed to enable MoCA for Mini connectivity, were the DVR stashed in the closet, so...

The diagrams don't take into account delivering the raw OTA signal, or output from the DTT901 converter, to the TVs. The OTA signal could be merged with your RF modulated channels if it were first passed through any necessary channel elimination filters, which is why I had asked about your TV Fool report. It looks like you could conceivably continue using channels 3 & 4 for your in-house channels, since your lowest antenna signal comes in on channel 7; you'd just to filter channels 3 & 4 from the antenna feed and then merge the antenna signal with the RF modulated signals heading to the TVs. Right?

(Remembering a previous line of thought... of course you'd only need to filter-out channel 3 for the DVR's modulated signal, since the the DTT901's output wouldn't be needed if you were allowing the raw OTA antenna signal to reach the TVs -- unless you decided to add another device to the closet for RF modulation.)


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Dump of closeted DVR diagrams...
> 
> View attachment 28682
> View attachment 28684
> ...


So here's where I'm at... you have given me the info I needed, both the Bolt and Roamio arrive shortly, and I am currently out of town. Will return a week from tomorrow. The Monday after Easter I will thoroughly re-study this thread and make a plan (additional items for purchase, etc.). I would appreciate being able to run that plan by you. So, in the interim, I will be going dark. Once again, sincerest thanks for your willingness to very effectively help me!


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Have a relaxing and/or productive week.

- - - -
One thing you'll need if looking to put the Roamio OTA in the closet and want to use an RF modulator ... the A/V Breakout Cable kit. Cheaper options are available via eBay if just looking for a composite breakout cable. Post back if you need assistance.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Have a relaxing and/or productive week.
> 
> - - - -
> One thing you'll need if looking to put the Roamio OTA in the closet and want to use an RF modulator ... the A/V Breakout Cable kit. Cheaper options are available via eBay if just looking for a composite breakout cable. Post back if you need assistance.


Will do. Thank you, Sir.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

I decided to get a jump on my final analysis prior to returning home. The diagrams below reflect what I believe are the components required for each option: Option 1 - Bolt with Moca ($435); Option 2 - Bolt with Moca ($675); Option 3 - Bolt w/o Moca ($355); Option 4 - Roamio w/o Moca ($320); and Option 5 - Roamio with Moca ($710).

As these are my interpretations of information that you have all provided, please let me know if I have incorrectly reflected these options or missed something. Also, your comments on what makes the most sense would be appreciated.

My thinking: Options 3 and 4 are kind of moot, as I would eventually want to take advantage of Hi Def. Options 2 and 5 are my favorites (centralized main boxes, and with a mini at each TV which I perceive as giving me better "functionality") although pricey. Option 1 is a good compromise, but I need to mount the Bolt on the wall probably under the TV since the TV is close to the wall.

So, if I were you guys, my reaction to all this would be, "For god's sake, make a decision!!". I will do that - just looking for last minute guidance in terms of a technology decision that will most confidently work, and yield the least surprises.

Thank you again!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Just to pipe in, so many complications seemingly being added and made . . . .  Personally, I like the KISS theory (RF modulators as this point, when you're setting up a new, nifty system?; and adding in a second Mini?), esp. with TiVo's, and simply would go Route 1. (And hadn't you wanted to avoid extra expense, originally?) That route is the most "traditional," if there is as such, from what I've seen.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Just saw this thread. WTH is with all the diplexers and RF modulator in a Moca Mini system. Makes absolutely zero sense. Analog RF modulated system would have no Moca and no Minis. 

Also the prices are out of whack. Roamio OTA with lifetime is only $250. Full HD Moca system with Minis and no modulators (essentially what I have in my own home) would be $630.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Option 5 is a good compromise, but I need to mount the Bolt on the wall probably under the TV since the TV is close to the wall.


I believe "Option 5" should read "Option 1" in this statement, correct, since Option 1 is the only diagram with an in-room BOLT?

Re: your questions/comments in the annotated diagrams...

"Is this a splitter or a diplexer?" -- A splitter; the 2x, 3x, etc. are my shorthand for 2-way, 3-way splitters; the diplexers in the diagrams are labeled "Dplxr."

"Note: Not HD" -- Does one of your rooms NOT have an HD TV, at present, meaning a TiVo device could not connect to it using an HDMI cable?​


jmsbnd said:


> My thinking: Options 3 and 4 are kind of moot, *as I would eventually want to take advantage of Hi Def*. Options 2 and 5 are my favorites (centralized main boxes, and with a mini at each TV which I perceive as giving me better "functionality") although pricey.


If you study the diagrams, you'll see that both non-MoCA closeted options (3&4) allow for a future upgrade to the MoCA-fied versions (2&5), with a Mini at one or both TVs...

*BOLT ::* Option 3 >>> {MoCA'fication} >>> Option 2
*Roamio OTA ::* Option 4 >>> {MoCA'fication} >>> Option 5​
At least in my browser (on my laptop), the TCF software lets me quickly toggle between the two versions in the earlier post, allowing for easier visual comparison. (or see this animated GIF illustrating the progression for just the closeted BOLT scenario)

*The preferred solution remains Option 1...* as it would allow independent playback at both TV locations, HD where possible, and you would still have the OTA signal available at each TV location (though Option 1 would need a splitter at the BOLT location, to deliver the OTA signal to the TV).


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

I accept mdavej's challenge! Here's a fun evolution of Option 1, attempting to reintroduce synchronized playback between rooms. (Not sure it's workable at the combiner, depending on the signal level coming from the RF modulator.)







​HD playback at both locations; OTA signal at both TVs; SD or HD synchronized playback depending on RF modulator.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

On reviewing your diagrams/plans...

MoCA Bridge ::

Given the MoCA bridge will be hidden in the closet, you could opt for a budget approach, reconfiguring a Verizon/Actiontec MI424-WR Rev. I router into just a MoCA adapter -- though the MI424-WR is only MoCA 1.1 w/ Gigabit LAN, so the BOLT's max throughput would drop from 400+Mbps to 140+Mbps.

Some have found the Yitong MoCA 2.0 adapters an acceptable substitute for the Actiontec MoCA 2.0 adapters (ECB6000 or ECB6200), with a single Yitong adapter costing just $60. (Though it appears the single Yitong adapters remain mysteriously unavailable at Amazon.)

Option 1:

Where are you paying $8 for a diplexer?!? (see here; though I suppose shipping would be a factor)

A MoCA bridge matching the BOLT's MoCA spec (standard MoCA 2.0) can _currently_ be had for $72 (see here); so that would be the max needed, and then there's the budget approach above.

The "Needed" BOM for Option 1 is missing the cost of the Mini, right?

Options 3 & 4:

You already own the 2-way splitter, right? (It's included in the Option 3 & 4 lists but not in 2 & 5, so one or the other set needs adjustment, however minor.)

Not sure what RF modulator tech you're looking at. BOLT-to-RF would need to address HDMI-only output of the BOLT; Roamio OTA-to-RF could use any of HDMI, component or composite, but the latter two would require the TiVo A/V Breakout Cable Kit, previously mentioned (or its equivalent).

Option 3 (and 1, 2 & 5):

The "Not HD" note in this option has implications for Options 1, 2 & 5, since a Mini would require the TiVo A/V Breakout Cable Kit to display to a non-HD TV.

Option 4 & 5:

Roamio OTA cost is $265, per the "Total"/"Total Solution" cost difference in the Option 4 & 5 "Needed" BOMs, correct? (The BOLT cost doesn't show any similar bump in the list price, factoring-in at $300 flat.)

Options 2 & 5:

Variants for both these options, call them Options 2a and 5a, could postpone $150 of cost if you could get by, short-term, with just the RF modulated video from the closeted DVR at one of the TVs. (see the animated GIF previously posted; or here) And bump the savings by the cost of the TiVo A/V Breakout Cable Kit, if the postponed location doesn't have an HD TV.

One final note... I believe that the TiVo Mini includes an HDMI cable, but I'm not sure about the BOLT. Will need to research this further. BOMs/costs would need to be adjusted accordingly, and the same goes for coax cabling, however minor.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Option 5 Option 1 is a good compromise, but I need to mount the Bolt on the wall probably under the TV since the TV is close to the wall.


I wouldn't view Option 1 as a "compromise"; it's the preferred, optimal solution, provided you're OK w/ not having synchronized playback between rooms, and can get the BOLT installed in-room. The only way it might improve further, at additional cost, would be if you were to closet the BOLT but use an HDMI over coax solution to deliver the BOLT's output to one room. e.g.






​
Note that some of the expense of the HDMI-over-coax adapters would be covered by not having to buy a MoCA bridge.

The possibilities aren't endless, but they are plentiful. Pretty much depends on budget.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mdavej said:


> Analog RF modulated system would have no Moca and no Minis.


It could if one wanted to combine synchronized playback across all TVs with independent HD quality playback at each location.



mdavej said:


> Also the prices are out of whack. Roamio OTA with lifetime is only $250. Full HD Moca system with Minis and no modulators (essentially what I have in my own home) would be $630.


The costs associated with each plan seem relatively accurate, aside from the missing line item for the Mini in the OP's Option 1 plan.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Was thinking the RF modulator was for old school composite SD on analog channel 3 or 4. Synchro playback is an interesting idea.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mdavej said:


> *Was thinking the RF modulator was for old school composite SD on analog channel 3 or 4.* Synchro playback is an interesting idea.


It is.

That's what we're doing at my sister's place, though I haven't upgraded the distribution technology to HD. We're still using the same AVCast SD distribution equipment we've been using for a decade -- though aided by having two coax lines to each TV location.

A TiVo device at each TV location provides (private, independent) HD playback, while a TiVo Mini in a basement closet broadcasts across the house via channel 72, in SD (with a notch filter clearing space for the modulated channels).



mdavej said:


> Analog RF modulated system would have no Moca and no Minis.


By the way, agreed. Simple RF modulation of a central device is covered in Options 3 & 4, above, with independent playback added via MoCA-connected Minis in Options 2 & 5.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> I believe "Option 5" should read "Option 1" in this statement, correct, since Option 1 is the only diagram with an in-room BOLT?


Yes. I've corrected it.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> "Note: Not HD" -- Does one of your rooms NOT have an HD TV, at present, meaning a TiVo device could not connect to it using an HDMI cable?


That was a poorly communicated note to myself that this option as shown would not provide HD signal to either HD TV.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> The "Needed" BOM for Option 1 is missing the cost of the Mini, right?


Correct again, o great Carnac.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> I wouldn't view Option 1 as a "compromise"; it's the preferred, optimal solution, provided you're OK w/ not having synchronized playback between rooms, and can get the BOLT installed in-room. The only way it might improve further, at additional cost, would be if you were to closet the BOLT but use an HDMI over coax solution to deliver the BOLT's output to one room. e.g.
> 
> View attachment 28727​
> Note that some of the expense of the HDMI-over-coax adapters would be covered by not having to buy a MoCA bridge.
> ...


I am thinking Option 1 is the way I'll go, but I like your "improved" version. Can you quasi-suggest without endorsing any HDMI/Coax to Coax/HDMI boxes that you're comfortable with? There seem to be an awful lot out there with a wide range of prices. If I go that route, I'd want to purchase ones whose specs support these requirements.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> That was a poorly communicated note to myself that this option as shown would not provide HD signal to either HD TV.


Ah, ok. True for both Options 3 & 4.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> I am thinking Option 1 is the way I'll go, but I like your "improved" version.


One downside is no raw OTA signal at the TV since the coax line would be dedicated to the HDMI/coax converters.



jmsbnd said:


> Can you quasi-suggest without endorsing any HDMI/Coax to Coax/HDMI boxes that you're comfortable with?


No, as I've never used any, myself.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> One downside is no raw OTA signal at the TV since the coax line would be dedicated to the HDMI/coax converters.


Still fuzzy on this point. If the Bolt receives and understands OTA signals, I assume it has responsibility for getting that signal to the TV, just like it would with its recorded video signals. Seems like signals would be signals...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Still fuzzy on this point. If the Bolt receives and understands OTA signals, I assume it has responsibility for getting that signal to the TV, just like it would with its recorded video signals. Seems like signals would be signals...


Yes, the BOLT will be tuning your OTA signals and that tuned/recorded content fed to the TV via HDMI, but some of the plans put forward allow for the raw OTA antenna signal to be delivered directly to each TV (see the diagrams with coax connections to a TV), so that live TV can be viewed separate from the TiVo system.

It's not critical; just wanted to make sure this difference between Option 1 and its HDMI-over-coax modification was clear. In retrospect, I don't really view the HDMI-over-coax mod so much an improvement as a workaround, should you not be able to locate the BOLT in-room. An improvement would be to combine the HDMI/coax converters with an HDMI Matrix switch that would allow both the BOLT and Mini (and Blu-ray player?) to be closeted, and their output directed at either or both TV locations. Budget, what budget?


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> Just to pipe in, so many complications seemingly being added and made . . . .  Personally, I like the KISS theory (RF modulators as this point, when you're setting up a new, nifty system?; and adding in a second Mini?), esp. with TiVo's, and simply would go Route 1. (And hadn't you wanted to avoid extra expense, originally?) That route is the most "traditional," if there is as such, from what I've seen.


Thanks, Mikeguy. Just to be clear, you like "Option 1" where the Bolt is in one room with a TV and a Mini is in the other room with a TV?


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Option 1:
> 
> Where are you paying $8 for a diplexer?!? (see here; though I suppose shipping would be a factor)
> 
> A MoCA bridge matching the BOLT's MoCA spec (standard MoCA 2.0) can _currently_ be had for $72 (see here); so that would be the max needed, and then there's the budget approach above.


Going to to the "$72 (see here)" link provides many options. For a Moca Bridge, im good just ordering from TiVo, correct?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Going to to the "$72 (see here)" link provides many options. For a Moca Bridge, im good just ordering from TiVo, correct?


Yes.

(But the same adapter is currently available for $8+ less via Amazon, $71.83 -- ignoring the tax & shipping charges -- and for $18+ less "Like New" via "amazon warehouse deals.")


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

jmsbnd said:


> Thanks, Mikeguy. Just to be clear, you like "Option 1" where the Bolt is in one room with a TV and a Mini is in the other room with a TV?


Yep, and that's the "classic" approach. I'm not a networking guy--I'm as befuddled with it all (as you). But Option 1 avoids buying extra equipment, at extra expense (2 Mini's for a 2 television set-up, in addition to the master TiVo box?), and seems to offer the most (assuming that you can afford the extra expense, over a simpler/less expensive RF system of the type you have now).

I can see going otherwise, if you have special needs. Such as, hiding the TiVo box away in a media closet. Or a duplication of your current RF setup, for cost reasons (and which is dang clever!--your current setup never occurred to me). But then, you could lose or complicate some features, such as HD definition.

Also, do keep in mind that the Bolt is small--it's not the size of a VCR. Perhaps you'll indeed have the space to squirrel it away, without needing a wall mount. Or can use a different "holder" for the Bolt--krkaufman pointed to a Bolt mount that can be affixed to a television, and wtherrell called attention to the use of a simple monitor stand. And you might even like the design, shape and color, and want it on display--some do.

Mount Bolt in wall behind tv?

Transfer of Lifetime from Series 2 or Series 3 TiVo for $99, with purchase of new Bolt

But what do I know? I'm just a poor schnook trying to understand all your option permutations.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> Yep, and that's the "classic" approach. I'm not a networking guy--I'm as befuddled with it all (as you). But Option 1 avoids buying extra equipment, at extra expense (2 Mini's for a 2 television set-up, in addition to the master TiVo box?), and seems to offer the most (assuming that you can afford the extra expense, over a simpler/less expensive RF system of the type you have now).
> 
> I can see going otherwise, if you have special needs. Such as, hiding the TiVo box away in a media closet. Or a duplication of your current RF setup, for cost reasons (and which is dang clever!--your current setup never occurred to me). But then, you could lose or complicate some features, such as HD definition.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Very helpful. (Now I'll go back to trying to understand all of my option permutations...)


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Yes.
> 
> (But the same adapter is currently available for $8+ less via Amazon, $71.83 -- ignoring the tax & shipping charges -- and for $18+ less "Like New" via "amazon warehouse deals.")


Thank you.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> Yes.
> 
> (But the same adapter is currently available for $8+ less via Amazon, $71.83 -- ignoring the tax & shipping charges -- and for $18+ less "Like New" via "amazon warehouse deals.")


For what it's worth, I've had great success with carefully-selected Amazon Warehouse purchases (typically buying "Used - Like New" items). This can be the equivalent of buying marked-down, returned, unwanted gifts at a local dept. store, or a never-purchased item where the box has a tear. And these items are from Amazon and have its backing and customer service--if they don't work or are not as described, an easy return (with Amazon picking up the return shipping). If I see that Amazon Warehouse has a "like new" option available over a full-priced Amazon offer, I'll typically grab it.

Keep in mind: the TiVo-branded MoCA adapter is a rebranded Actiontec, in white. I guess that could be worth an extra $18 to some people?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> For what it's worth, I've had great success with carefully-selected Amazon Warehouse purchases (typically buying "Used - Like New" items). ... If I see that Amazon Warehouse has a "like new" option available over a full-priced Amazon offer, I'll typically grab it.


Agreed. The "*Like New*" qualifier in "Used - Like New" is key for me.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> Keep in mind: the TiVo-branded MoCA adapter is a rebranded Actiontec, in white. I guess that could be worth an extra $18 to some people?


I was getting bored with the same old perfectly functional MoCA adapter options but something about the TiVo Bridge has made MoCA great, again.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> I was getting bored with the same old perfectly functional MoCA adapter options but something about the TiVo Bridge has made MoCA great, again.


It's the Apple white and the classy name, TiVo "Bridge" (it's not simply an "adaptor")--does it every time.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Yes, the BOLT will be tuning your OTA signals and that tuned/recorded content fed to the TV via HDMI, but some of the plans put forward allow for thethe raw OTA antenna signal to be delivered directly to each TV (see the diagrams with coax connections to a TV), so that live TV can be viewed separate from the TiVo system.
> 
> It's not critical; just wanted to make sure this difference between Option 1 and its HDMI-over-coax modification was clear. In retrospect, I don't really view the HDMI-over-coax mod so much an improvement as a workaround, should you not be able to locate the BOLT in-room. An improvement would be to combine the HDMI/coax converters with an HDMI Matrix switch that would allow both the BOLT and Mini (and Blu-ray player?) to be closeted, and their output directed at either or both TV locations. Budget, what budget?


So I am moving forward with Option 1. Curious, what would happen if I eliminate the diplexer at the TV/Mini site. With my old Series 2, I can click a button to watch "Now Playing" recordings, then click a button to watch live TV (fed through the Series 2). I assume I could do the same with the Bolt. If the diplexer is eliminated, wouldn't this still work? Still struggling with why I would want to have "the raw OTA antenna signal to be delivered directly to each TV". Are we concerned about the quality of the live picture through the Bolt?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> So I am moving forward with Option 1.


BOLT and Mini each installed in-room?


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> BOLT and Mini each installed in-room?


Correct.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Curious, what would happen if I eliminate the diplexer at the TV/Mini site.


Removing the diplexer and the coax cable connecting directly to the TV, the TV would no longer have access to the OTA antenna signal.



jmsbnd said:


> With my old Series 2, I can click a button to watch "Now Playing" recordings, then click a button to watch live TV (fed through the Series 2). I assume I could do the same with the Bolt.


The Mini can play live or recorded TV, streamed over the network from the BOLT, with the only limitation being that a free tuner must be available on the BOLT to allocate to the Mini for access to live TV.



jmsbnd said:


> If the diplexer is eliminated, wouldn't this still work? Still struggling with why I would want to have "the raw OTA antenna signal to be delivered directly to each TV".


The diplexer and separate TV coax connection are optional, required only IF you require access to the OTA signal at the TV.



jmsbnd said:


> Are we concerned about the quality of the live picture through the Bolt?


No.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Removing the diplexer and the coax cable connecting directly to the TV, the TV would no longer have access to the OTA antenna signal.
> 
> The Mini can play live or recorded TV, streamed over the network from the BOLT, with the only limitation being that a free tuner must be available on the BOLT to allocate to the Mini for access to live TV.
> 
> ...


As always, much appreciated.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

No prob. A lot of possibilities, but just a subset, were put out there from which to choose. (see)


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> No prob. A lot of possibilities, but just a subset, were put out there from which to choose. (see)


Per your link, are you equating my Bolt project with the Last Crusade?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> Per your link, are you equating my Bolt project with the Last Crusade?


Ha! No, just the scene at the end.



krkaufman said:


> *A lot of possibilities... from which to choose.*











​


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Ha! No, just the scene at the end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I choose the DVR made out of wood.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> No prob. A lot of possibilities, but just a subset, were put out there from which to choose. (see)


Quick update. Still awaiting shipment of my Bolt (I will ultimately install Option 1). In the meantime, the Roamio OTA/Mini pairing over Moca coax is working wonderfully. However, i cannot watch my recordings on my iPad - when I run Setup in the TiVo app, it cannot find a streaming device on my network. As I mentioned in another thread, TiVo Support says this problem is being worked on - I'm surprised I don't see more reports of this problem. Anyway...


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Roamio OTA doesn't support mobile streaming...


krkaufman said:


> There are functional diffs between the BOLT and 4-tuner Roamio, the primary being a lack of mobile streaming in the Roamio,


... or MoCA or 4K. It was suggested as a budget option to replicate your existing S2 functionality, though with a few upgrades.


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

krkaufman said:


> Roamio OTA doesn't support mobile streaming...
> 
> ... or MoCA or 4K. It was suggested as a budget option to replicate your existing S2 functionality, though with a few upgrades.


Wow! You would think Support would have told me that! Actually, I specifically told the support guy that I had ordered both OTA and Bolt to evaluate, and asked if Bolt would provide better iOS streaming - he said no, they are identical in that regard. I'll wait for the Bolt. Thank you.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jmsbnd said:


> Wow! You would think Support would have told me that! Actually, I specifically told the support guy that I had ordered both OTA and Bolt to evaluate, and asked if Bolt would provide better iOS streaming - he said no, they are identical in that regard. I'll wait for the Bolt. Thank you.


The base Roamio & Roamio OTA do not have the ability to stream to iOS/Android devices and web browsers built in. The Roamio Plus & Pro do have this ability built in. Seems lots of people, including TiVo support, confuse which abilities various Series 5/Roamio models have. Plus it is easy to even mix up what model a person is talking about, given how TiVo named them.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> Seems lots of people, including TiVo support, confuse which abilities various Series 5/Roamio models have. Plus it is easy to even mix up what model a person is talking about, given how TiVo named them.


One would think that the company itself could get this right, lol.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

jmsbnd said:


> I specifically told the support guy that I had ordered both OTA and Bolt to evaluate, and asked if Bolt would provide better iOS streaming - he said no, they are identical in that regard.


That's pretty remarkable, even for TiVo Support. Wow, indeed.

p.s. Heck, even if you were talking about the 6-tuner Roamios, their mobile streaming functionality isn't "identical" to either of the BOLT models. See @Dan203's TiVo Stream FAQ.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

krkaufman said:


> p.s. Heck, even if you were talking about the 6-tuner Roamios, their mobile streaming functionality isn't "identical" to either of the BOLT models. See @Dan203's TiVo Stream FAQ.


If TiVo Support can't get the fact of streaming or not correct, would there be any hope that they can get the _type_ of streaming correct?


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## jmsbnd (Apr 1, 2017)

To close out this relatively long thread, 1) Thanks again to all for your help; 2) My Bolt arrives on 4/28 (ordered on 4/5) and I will install Option 1 and we can all move on with our lives.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Good choice.


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