# Chicago WBBM-2 OTA - Nothing!



## mib66 (Jan 6, 2005)

So I live in Chicago (northside of city). I have an HR10 (and with it, all of the audio dropout and partial recording problems many people seem to have). For the last two weeks, I;ve lost my CBS OTA channel (thats WBBM-2). It wasn;t a problem for the first 3 months I've had it, but all of a sudden I get zilch. 
I've reset the unit, rescanned for channels, but still no reception. Kind of a pain. 
Any suggestions? 

Oh, and I called D* about it. Here's what they told me - they are not responsible for OTA reception and make no guarantees on OTA with the HR10. Then they tried to get me on the waitlist for the HR20, but would only swap it out (thats right, swap!) for $99. I'm not opposed to the HR20 (I love Tivo, but I'd be willing to give this one a shot, based on other comments I've read) but I'm not looking to pay anything when Comcast or Dish will set me up for free. Its probably CSR roulette, and the next time I call I may get a better response, but for now I'm not satisfied with the support or the offer. 
Anyone have any suggestions/solutions?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

1) WBBM-2 OTA is a major PITA to receive in Chicago.... It's frequency is VHF-3
2) Are you getting ANYTHING when you to a signal strength for VFH-3

If it is low, or is bouncing....
You are getting some type of interfearence.

For example...
In my house... I have to unplug (not just turn off), but unplug my Son's computer.
And I will get WBBM-DT.. else, the signal bounces all over the place.


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## stivovance (Feb 12, 2003)

Also, what antenna are you using? Has maybe something changed with that?

I had a square shooter 2000 mounted really low in the gangway outside and finally moved it up to the attic. I wasn't able to get anything on 3-1 before, but now I'm able to get a fairly steady mid 70s, it still pixelates quite frequently, but for now, I just watch the East Coast HD feed for CBS, everything else is OTA though.


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## finaldiet (May 10, 2004)

Everything comes in fine for me. Talked to an SBC guy and he mentioned FIOS was coming in early next year. Was thinking about waiting to see when that will happen.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

finaldiet said:


> Everything comes in fine for me. Talked to an SBC guy and he mentioned FIOS was coming in early next year. Was thinking about waiting to see when that will happen.


The SBC guy (really an AT&T guy now) lied or is confused. No FIOS in the Chicago area. Perhaps he was thinking of AT&T U-Verse.

To the original poster...WBBM is VHF-Lo, and is very susceptible to weather changes, impulse noise, etc. The cold weather/dry air may have impacted things. Also, if there's some electrical device (space heater?) that you've started running recently, well, that can do it.

As Earl mentioned, check your signal strength. Is it consistently low or flickering around low amounts? Then it's probably weak signal strength/interference. Is it rapidly bouncing in the high numbers? Then it's multipath.

Let us know and we can give more specific recommendations.


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## sjordan93436 (Oct 23, 2005)

I had something similar. My Channel 12 analog is 19-1 digital. My TIvo powered off and on... No, OTA signal.

I did a rescan of OTA-- it found 19-3. Good signal, say OTA channel (CBS). Good HD. 

Now the problem is that my HR10-250 guide does not recognize my "new" channel. (Actually, there are two "new" channels). I did a phone update, Nothing. 

I have OTA reception, but I manually record by date and time. 

Any way to link the two?


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Well, you won't get guide data for 19-3. The stations PSIP unit is messed up so that your receiver doesn't know that it is supposed to be ch12. I had this problem early last year with my standalone non-DVR HD receiver. A restart fixed it once the station corrected their PSIP.


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

Cheer, Earl, et. al., I'm in DuPage County, 25.2 miles west/southwest of the Sears Tower, from where Chicago's network signals are beamed. I'm on the 2nd floor of a 3-floor apartment building, and my unit faces southwest, 180* AWAY from Chicago. 

I purchased a Winegard SS2000 amplified antenna. I get with NO problem all my channels save for one: WBBM CBS Channel 2. Channel 2 has historically been the worst station to get in any form. It's just awful. 

Antennaweb.org told me I had to aim my SS2000 to 76* for Chicago's digital channels, but 73* for WBBM CBS Channel 2. Nothing I do will allow me to get Channel 2, so I just gave up weeks ago. I watch channel 80, the CBS national HD feed if I need to.


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## mib66 (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks, all. Can everyone get the HD national feeds (like ch.80)? I feel like I tried this before, but wasn't able to...

As a small update, I called D* yesterday and after 30 minutes of back and forth, they decided to schedule a service appt. They also offered me STARZ for $2/month
for a year. I took it, just to watch the Hunter Thompson doc tonite. 
Res ipsa loquitur! :up:


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Lord Vader said:


> Cheer, Earl, et. al., I'm in DuPage County, 25.2 miles west/southwest of the Sears Tower, from where Chicago's network signals are beamed. I'm on the 2nd floor of a 3-floor apartment building, and my unit faces southwest, 180* AWAY from Chicago.
> 
> I purchased a Winegard SS2000 amplified antenna. I get with NO problem all my channels save for one: WBBM CBS Channel 2. Channel 2 has historically been the worst station to get in any form. It's just awful.
> 
> Antennaweb.org told me I had to aim my SS2000 to 76* for Chicago's digital channels, but 73* for WBBM CBS Channel 2. Nothing I do will allow me to get Channel 2, so I just gave up weeks ago. I watch channel 80, the CBS national HD feed if I need to.


The majority of Chicago's signals are from the Sears Tower.

CBS is from the Hancock. So it is about 3-4 miles between the two (hence the difference in pointing).

But from 25 miles away, 3 degrees in pointing, is nill in a difference unless you are using a lazer beam, and not a broadcast antenna.

Simply put... VHF-3 is effected so easily by outside influences, it simply is a pain in the rear to receive.

Sometime in 2009/2010, they are going to move up to VHF-11 (currently occupied by Analog WTTW)... but until that day comes...


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

It'll be nice, then, when that change does indeed come. Why WBBM has waited for so long is beyond me.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Lord Vader said:


> It'll be nice, then, when that change does indeed come. Why WBBM has waited for so long is beyond me.


FCC

They applied for the change 2 years ago.


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

So are you saying government bureaucracy is to blame, Earl? Come now. I'm surprised at you.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

Lord Vader said:


> It'll be nice, then, when that change does indeed come. Why WBBM has waited for so long is beyond me.


No it won't. VHF-Hi won't be much better, and the power that WBBM will be limited to will be even less than they're at now.

WBBM is a mess OTA, and that's not changing in the foreseeable future.


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## Lord Vader (Aug 30, 2004)

Well, don't tell me. Tell Earl. He's the one who mentioned it.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

cheer said:


> No it won't. VHF-Hi won't be much better, and the power that WBBM will be limited to will be even less than they're at now.
> 
> WBBM is a mess OTA, and that's not changing in the foreseeable future.


One of the original problems of being on VHF-3, in the city.
Was that they can't "crank" the power up.

Because it was interfearing with Cable Systems, and other items trying to use "channel 3". Near the transmitter. (There where some very very long threads about it with a WBBM engineer, over in the Local Reception forum at AVS)

So hopefully when they change to VHF-11, and since the Analog VHF-11 isn't being used for WTTW then.... then an "turn it up" and thus help with the reception further out.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> One of the original problems of being on VHF-3, in the city.
> Was that they can't "crank" the power up.
> 
> Because it was interfearing with Cable Systems, and other items trying to use "channel 3". Near the transmitter. (There where some very very long threads about it with a WBBM engineer, over in the Local Reception forum at AVS)
> ...


No, that's not happening.

Right now, WBBM is on VHF 3 at 4.4 kilowatt. That's low, though not insanely low (VHF and UHF power numbers aren't equivalent). It would help if it could crank up a bit, but it's not like the UHF stations that run at 1 mw. VHF-LO, however, has all kinds of issues and is very susceptible to interference. (The "interfering with cable systems near the transmitter" thing is no longer an issue, AFAIK.)

When it moves to VHF 11...it will be at 1 kw. Yes, 1 kw. LOWER than it is now. This is due to four other stations being on the same (or neighboring) frequency. 11 will be a bad, bad frequency in Chicago.

(Incidentally, WLS will move to VHF 7 at 3.2 kw. OTA is going to really blow in Chicago come shutdown.)


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

cheer said:


> (Incidentally, WLS will move to VHF 7 at 3.2 kw. OTA is going to really blow in Chicago come shutdown.)


Who's bright idea was that? I am not even sure why they are bothering with the VHF band for OTA.

Probably some "Bean" counter that doesn't understand how the PSIP and channel-remapping works. They think they "need" to be "channel" 7, to be "channel 7"...

Morons. Gladd I got MPEG-4.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> Who's bright idea was that? I am not even sure why they are bothering with the VHF band for OTA.


A misguided notion that VHF was somehow better. And I suppose it is, in the sense that you don't need the power levels that you do on UHF.

Really this is more of an issue with specific channel selections. WBBM could've gone to better channels (even on VHF) but didn't. I am told the bad decisions actually came from CBS corporate (WBBM is an O&O station).


> Morons. Gladd I got MPEG-4.


Yeah. Unless you want to watch The Tube, or PBS Create, or WWME-DT, or WPWR-DT, or WCIU-DT, or WGN-DT, or any of the hundred subchannels that are on 38, or WYCC-DT, or...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

cheer said:


> A misguided notion that VHF was somehow better. And I suppose it is, in the sense that you don't need the power levels that you do on UHF.
> 
> Really this is more of an issue with specific channel selections. WBBM could've gone to better channels (even on VHF) but didn't. I am told the bad decisions actually came from CBS corporate (WBBM is an O&O station).
> 
> Yeah. Unless you want to watch The Tube, or PBS Create, or WWME-DT, or WPWR-DT, or WCIU-DT, or WGN-DT, or any of the hundred subchannels that are on 38, or WYCC-DT, or...


My reference to the MPEG-4 feed, was because of WBBM; and eventually WLS.
(more or less a fall back from OTA)

I do have the OTA for everything else.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> My reference to the MPEG-4 feed, was because of WBBM; and eventually WLS.
> (more or less a fall back from OTA)
> 
> I do have the OTA for everything else.


Yeah, I hear you, and I suspect this is what will eventually push me into an HR20.


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