# Dish Network DVR??



## jqp (Dec 3, 2004)

Well, Comcast here is now forcing all it's users to have a digital box at each TV set. This is the last straw with Comcast. I've got a Series 2 single tuner and a series 2 dual tuner box. The dual tuner will become a single tuner under this new setup.

As much as I love my Tivos, I think I'm going to switch over to Dish network. I've heard really good things about their DVR.

Anybody have any experience with it? I played with one in Radio Shack... and from what i could see, it was pretty close to Tivo functionality... at least a whole lot closer than the cruddy DVR Comcast offer.

Anybody want to buy some Tivos? ;-)

Thanks for any info.

JQP


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

I don't think you'll get too many good comments here about Dish DVRs since this is a TiVo forum. 

Go here http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72 for Dish DVR info.


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## jqp (Dec 3, 2004)

I'm not unhappy with Tivo at all... 

Especially since I read about this swivel search thing that is coming.

I was looking just for some useability comments.

I'd say the Comcast DVR is 25% as usable as Tivo. I'd guess the Dish Network one is 85% or so....

Just soliciting other opinions.


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## yunlin12 (Mar 15, 2003)

You know that Tivo has a pending injunction on Dish's DVR, right? Wait till Dish's appeal is finished, and see if they still have any DVR's left.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=353290


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## 1003 (Jul 14, 2000)

jqp said:


> I'd say the Comcast DVR is 25% as usable as Tivo. I'd guess the Dish Network one is 85% or so....


*I too played*
with one at Radio Shack and at a friends house. Since my HD-TiVo with DirecTV croaked and was replaced with the inferior HR20-700. I am actively seeking a new provider. We get excellent OTA reception so the existing Media Center HDPCs will continue to handle that. Ratings of the moment:

*95 * TiVo Series3 Comcast
*93* TiVo DirecTV HD (too bad its broken) DirecTV
*90* TiVo DirecTV Series2 DirecTV
*88* Dish Network VIP622 Dish Network
*87* Media Center HDPC OTA
*80* TiVo Series1 OTA/Comcast
*25* SciAtl cable box Comcast
*22* Motorola cable box Comcast
*12* DirecTV HD-DVR DirecTV
*00* FIOS (not available here) Verizon
(based on HD package price/channels with little regard to available SD content)
Ratings under 80 are not going to get a high enough WAF rating to get much attention from me...


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I don't think you need to worry about Dish not having any DVR's after the lawsuit is resolved. In the end Tivo desperately needs their money so they will license the patents to Dish not shutdown their DVR's.

But why would you go with Dish when DTV is about to have more HD than anyone else? Their DVR is certainly no less buggy than the HR 20.

Of course you could get the ultimate setup and buy an S3 for each TV in your house...


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## davecramer74 (Mar 17, 2006)

> But why would you go with Dish when DTV is about to have more HD than anyone else?


dish announced they are launching new satellites too. with the cable co's already testing sdv in some places, i dont see how directv is going to have more hd than anyone else. At least not for very long.


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## aztivo (Feb 23, 2005)

davecramer74 said:


> dish announced they are launching new satellites too. with the cable co's already testing sdv in some places, i dont see how directv is going to have more hd than anyone else. At least not for very long.


I think D* counts all their locals in that total. so if you are in SF that is one Phx is one NY is one add them all up =3... I think this is how D*s math works


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> I don't think you need to worry about Dish not having any DVR's after the lawsuit is resolved. In the end Tivo desperately needs their money so they will license the patents to Dish not shutdown their DVR's.
> 
> But why would you go with Dish when DTV is about to have more HD than anyone else? Their DVR is certainly no less buggy than the HR 20.
> 
> Of course you could get the ultimate setup and buy an S3 for each TV in your house...


I wouldn't count on Tivo's desire for cash to outweigh the ability to single-handedly crush a competitor, and I wouldn't count on the word of an internet stranger to assure me that my DVR is going to continue to keep working, especially since the injunction is issued and hanging by a stay.

Some cash and the license to make a Dish-version of the S3? Maybe.

Why would you go with DirecTV and get substandard picture quality? More HD channels are pretty much meaningless when they look like crap.

As much as it hurts, if you want the best picture, stick with Comcast and make their life difficult by forcing them to support CableCards in your shiny new S3.


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## davecramer74 (Mar 17, 2006)

aztivo said:


> I think D* counts all their locals in that total. so if you are in SF that is one Phx is one NY is one add them all up =3... I think this is how D*s math works


actually, they are counting their sport packages as channels too. thats what, about 30-40 channels right there if they play all the games in hd. Theyll have around 75-80 national channels is my understanding.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

Over-compressed under-resolution junk can be on 300 channels, but I won't pay for it. I'd rather have real HD, please.


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

davecramer74 said:


> actually, they are counting their sport packages as channels too. thats what, about 30-40 channels right there if they play all the games in hd. Theyll have around 75-80 national channels is my understanding.


I think many of us see the D* sats as a watter shed moment where capacity is no longer a issue. So content providers can start throwing up HD version of channels and have a customer base of 20 million right off the start. I personally agree with Comcasts move of turning off 70 analog channels. It means space for 210 HD channels. However I would have made the move more slowly to give customers the proper amount of time to process what this means to them.


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## swinca (Jun 19, 2003)

I have a Dish DVR. It has it plusses and minuses, just like Tivo. I still like my Tivo better. It's hooked up to the non-HD receiver. The Dish DVR search feature is easier to access, and I like that it automatically saves your search history. I also like that you can delete entries that you might not want other people to see. Scheduling shows is easier on the Tivo. The Tivo also has more scheduling options. Tivo's To-Do list is way better than the Dish DVR schedule. The Dish isn't my first choice. I wanted to keep cable and my Tivo but the cable company that serves my area only has 5 HD channels. No need to waste a big screen HD TV on that. Given my choices, I'm satisfied with the Dish DVR.

ETA: The Dish DVR has dual tuners and you can watch your recorded shows on 2 different TVs. The downside is that the 2nd TV output is only SD, even if it's hooked up to an HD TV.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

jqp said:


> ...
> I was looking just for some useability comments.
> ...


Did you check the link I supplied?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> I wouldn't count on Tivo's desire for cash to outweigh the ability to single-handedly crush a competitor, and I wouldn't count on the word of an internet stranger to assure me that my DVR is going to continue to keep working, especially since the injunction is issued and hanging by a stay.
> 
> Some cash and the license to make a Dish-version of the S3? Maybe.
> 
> ...


Your problem is that you view Dish as a competitor to Tivo. They are not. They are one of the few major distributors of TV today. Tivo management will not get raises for hurting Dish. They will get raises for making Dish a partner that generates revenue for Tivo every month. Tivo and Dish will sign a deal when Dish has no other options left.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

davecramer74 said:


> dish announced they are launching new satellites too. with the cable co's already testing sdv in some places, i dont see how directv is going to have more hd than anyone else. At least not for very long.


Dish's new sats will not be up this year and neither will SDV. Later this year if you want a lot of HD you will be signing up with DTV. Or you can keep telling yourself that all those over compressed HD channels look better in SD stretched to fill your 16x9 screen.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Your problem is that you view Dish as a competitor to Tivo. They are not. They are one of the few major distributors of TV today. Tivo management will not get raises for hurting Dish. They will get raises for making Dish a partner that generates revenue for Tivo every month. Tivo and Dish will sign a deal when Dish has no other options left.


Actually, I have don't have a problem.

Right now, customers have the option of choosing a TV service that allows them to use Tivo or a TV service that doesn't. Even though they offer different products, every customer that chooses Dish is a lost opportunity for Tivo, so it is in their best interest to pull as many customers away from Dish as possible.

Yes, it would be nice to have the cash from a cash settlement, but it would be far nicer to have Dish customers buying a real Tivo for their new cable service.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Dish's new sats will not be up this year and neither will SDV. Later this year if you want a lot of HD you will be signing up with DTV. Or you can keep telling yourself that all those over compressed HD channels look better in SD stretched to fill your 16x9 screen.


You keep telling yourself that the "HD" that you're getting from DirecTV looks the same as HD from other systems.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> You keep telling yourself that the "HD" that you're getting from DirecTV looks the same as HD from other systems.


I don't believe that is true. But I do believe that the HD from DTV looks good enough that no one has ever sat down at my house and said, "Gee how come your HD doesn't look as good as mine?" Nor have I ever been to someone else's house and said, "Gee how come their HD looks better than mine?" For most people the difference is not noticable. Be happy that you are young enough to be able to tell the difference.

But when it comes to getting a dozen or so channels from DTV in compressed HD or form anyone else in SD, I'll take the compressed HD. And since they haven't put any channels on the new sats in mpeg4 yet, we really don't know how much they will compress them yet.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> Actually, I have don't have a problem.
> 
> Right now, customers have the option of choosing a TV service that allows them to use Tivo or a TV service that doesn't. Even though they offer different products, every customer that chooses Dish is a lost opportunity for Tivo, so it is in their best interest to pull as many customers away from Dish as possible.
> 
> Yes, it would be nice to have the cash from a cash settlement, but it would be far nicer to have Dish customers buying a real Tivo for their new cable service.


So they could get 100% license revenue from Dish's existing DVR base OR they could refuse to license to Dish and hope some percentage of those customers that didn't go straight to DirectV bought Tivo's rather than order the cable DVR.

I could be wrong but going for the 100% license revenue from Dish seems a better strategy to me.


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

I switched to dish last month and have the following dish receivers:
VIP 611 HD DVR
VIP 211 HD (connected to a 540 Tivo for SD recording)
301 (connected to a 540 Tivo)

The Dish DVR has some nice features. The dual tuner shared between two rooms works great for me. It can record two HD programs plus one HD OTA signal at the same time. 

I signed up with Dish using a club dish referral. The installation was free and I was able to sign up without the 18 month commitment. This gave me some time to compare it to cable before I made the switch.

I recommend you keep your Tivos if you are recording in SD. Both of mine are working with the Dish receivers.


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## davecramer74 (Mar 17, 2006)

> And since they haven't put any channels on the new sats in mpeg4 yet


ya they have, all of your locals are in MPG4, thus why you had to get an H20 or H20-700 + the bigger dish to recieve them.



> don't believe that is true. But I do believe that the HD from DTV looks good enough that no one has ever sat down at my house and said, "Gee how come your HD doesn't look as good as mine?"


i agree, i had directv before going back to comcast and theres not that much difference. You'd have to run them side by side to tell. I was more than happy with my directv HD.



> Dish's new sats will not be up this year and neither will SDV.


SDV is already being rolled out in some markets for TWC and comcast is testing it. So ya, for some people, they already have SDV. Dish is adding 7 new HD channels by years end, that puts them at 40. They also said they'd be launching 2 new sat's years end. So to say theirs wont be up, then you might as well say directv's wont be up. Last i looked, dish has set the standard for the amount of HD offered. What has directv done? Nothing but promised and delivered jack squat. Saying dish wont get their new sats up seems a little retarded considering they are the HD leader and are stating the exact same thing that directv is. What makes you think they wont get them up?


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

I've heard good and bad for the 622. Mostly good.

The only limitation that I think I'd run into is that there are a fixed number of 'events' that it can manage. Any show matching your 'season pass' (whatever Dish calls it) is an event, even if it isn't recording it. This gets ugly quick with syndicated shows.

Most people probably won't notice and will just love the box. My sister has one and is happy as can be with it.

I almost went to Dish but it was just too expensive for me. The cable bundle deals are hard to beat.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

davecramer74 said:


> ya they have, all of your locals are in MPG4, thus why you had to get an H20 or H20-700 + the bigger dish to recieve them.
> 
> i agree, i had directv before going back to comcast and theres not that much difference. You'd have to run them side by side to tell. I was more than happy with my directv HD.
> 
> SDV is already being rolled out in some markets for TWC and comcast is testing it. So ya, for some people, they already have SDV. Dish is adding 7 new HD channels by years end, that puts them at 40. They also said they'd be launching 2 new sat's years end. So to say theirs wont be up, then you might as well say directv's wont be up. Last i looked, dish has set the standard for the amount of HD offered. What has directv done? Nothing but promised and delivered jack squat. Saying dish wont get their new sats up seems a little retarded considering they are the HD leader and are stating the exact same thing that directv is. What makes you think they wont get them up?


The locals are on a different sat that only carries locals. How much they compress them may be different than the new sat which will in theory only be carrying national channels.

SDV is being slowly tested and rolled out but it is doubtful that many cities will have a major SDV overhaul before the end of the year.

While Dish is scheduled to launch near the end of the year, DirectTV is scheduled to launch this summer. So DTV could have HD available by Aug\September, but Dish won't be around with more until March 08 at best.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Funny the OP didn't say a thing about HD. In fact he is mad a Comcast because they are going all digital and he will have to use their STBs. So he may actually be looking at dish's SD DVR, the dual tuner 625. 

First I will say what others have said your 2 TiVos will work just fine with 2 Dish STBs (if you go this route ask for 311 STBs) so there is no reason to give up TiVo just because you are going with a Satellite provider. 

Second I actually like my old Dish 510 DVR and am guessing the 625 is at least as good. How much "better" a TiVo is depends on how you use a DVR and what you want it to do. For me the TiVos are hands down "better" but I could see other people not caring very much. 

Good Luck,


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## guywithproblem (May 30, 2007)

Okay I dont know anything about this Dish and Tivo feud. I am just a guy with a problem. I fancy myself pretty smart so I agreed to hookup the tivo for my girlfriend's stepdad. He has a dishnetwork 322 dual tuner thing. It doesnt have dvr but it can have two tv's watching two channels at once. Anyway it took me a good night because I hooked everything up from almost scratch. I sat on hold for 45 minute and was walked in circles. And all of this is because these companies don't get along?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

guywithproblem said:


> Okay I dont know anything about this Dish and Tivo feud. I am just a guy with a problem. I fancy myself pretty smart so I agreed to hookup the tivo for my girlfriend's stepdad. He has a dishnetwork 322 dual tuner thing. It doesnt have dvr but it can have two tv's watching two channels at once. Anyway it took me a good night because I hooked everything up from almost scratch. I sat on hold for 45 minute and was walked in circles. And all of this is because these companies don't get along?


I don't think your problems had anything to do with the two companies not getting along. Dish has no responsibiolity to help you hook up a Tivo. Tivo tech support should have been able to walk you through it quickly.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

guywithproblem,

The 322 does work but you can only use the primary tuner with TiVo - the second tuner can still be connected to the TV or another TV but not to a TiVo. There are also issue with the screen saver coming on causing you to record nothing but the screen saver - search around and you should be able to find workarounds for this issue. I had a 322 and used it for several months with mostly good results but it was frustrating at times. 

Good Luck,


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> But when it comes to getting a dozen or so channels from DTV in compressed HD or form anyone else in SD, I'll take the compressed HD. And since they haven't put any channels on the new sats in mpeg4 yet, we really don't know how much they will compress them yet.


None of this has anything to do with the Dish DVR, so I'll let it lay. It's sufficent to say I didn't pay thousands of dollars for a HDTV and over a hundred bucks a month to get a "good enough" picture. If you're satisfied with "good enough" good for you.

Slightly more on topic, as far as the end of the lawsuit goes: nobody knows how it's going to play out. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but there isn't any guarentee that anyone's Dish DVR will be working come this fall. I certainly wouldn't make the service committment to them in this situation, regardless of how well the DVR works.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> None of this has anything to do with the Dish DVR, so I'll let it lay. It's sufficent to say I didn't pay thousands of dollars for a HDTV and over a hundred bucks a month to get a "good enough" picture. If you're satisfied with "good enough" good for you.


What choice will you make if (hypothetically of course) at the end of the year you could get say 100 national HD channels from DirecTV or 30 from cable?

Like you I have spent thousands and thousands on HD equipment. My local cable company in small town USA is not going to offer more than a half dozen HD channels for years to come. My only real choice today is DTV.


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## guywithproblem (May 30, 2007)

HiDefGator said:


> I don't think your problems had anything to do with the two companies not getting along. Dish has no responsibiolity to help you hook up a Tivo. Tivo tech support should have been able to walk you through it quickly.


Ive talked to tivo tech twice. I wasnt talking to dish to get support. Im having problems with the IR sensors and that's it.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

guywithproblem said:


> Ive talked to tivo tech twice. I wasnt talking to dish to get support. Im having problems with the IR sensors and that's it.


Well maybe I'm confused. What does a problem with the IR sensors have to do with the two companies not getting along?

Problems with IR sensors was the reason I dumped my standalone Tivos for DirecTivo's years ago when they came out. You just can't beat the reliability of an integrated solution. If I was going to use Dish I would be inclined to get a Dish DVR rather than have two boxes piled next to my TV.


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## davecramer74 (Mar 17, 2006)

> What choice will you make if (hypothetically of course) at the end of the year you could get say 100 national HD channels from DirecTV or 30 from cable?


Well, at the end of the year, thats when id make that choice. Dish requires 49 up front and no commitment and you get their HD dvr. If you do a 18month commitment, there is no 49 up front. So, i could go with dish, have the most HD of anyone right now and dump them at the end of the year when directv does deliver. Or, i could pay directv 299, have a 2 year commitment and quite possibly be disappointed that they dont deliver 100 HD channels in the next 6 months. Seems like my logical choice is to go with who will cost me next to nothing and wont ask me for a committment and always leave my options open.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

davecramer74 said:


> Well, at the end of the year, thats when id make that choice. Dish requires 49 up front and no commitment and you get their HD dvr. If you do a 18month commitment, there is no 49 up front. So, i could go with dish, have the most HD of anyone right now and dump them at the end of the year when directv does deliver. Or, i could pay directv 299, have a 2 year commitment and quite possibly be disappointed that they dont deliver 100 HD channels in the next 6 months. Seems like my logical choice is to go with who will cost me next to nothing and wont ask me for a committment and always leave my options open.


Agreed. I'm pretty sure DirecTV is making deals on the $299 price. The only way they won't deliver the HD by the end of the year is if the rocket\sat blows up.


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## davecramer74 (Mar 17, 2006)

If your an existing customer, you can get a deal. i got them to offer me one hd dvr for free and a 2nd one for 99 bucks. But in the end, i needed the filipino channel and that required another dish (i was renting at the time) Fast forward 2 years, i dumped dtv and went with comcast . Since then i moved again. DTV called me up trying to win me back bug wouldnt budge on their HD dvr. I was already planning on going with dish anyways, because they started offering their dvr free as of february. As luck would have it, i couldnt get line of sight for either, so im being bent over by comcast again. My only hope is IPTV at this point. ATT is pushing closer and closer to my area. Im holding out hope that the new tivo will do 2 way coms, etc.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

davecramer74 said:


> Im holding out hope that the new tivo will do 2 way coms, etc.


That would be nice. I don't think there is any standard for them to support today, but at the least they could add the hardware support in case there is a standard one day.


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## davecramer74 (Mar 17, 2006)

> That would be nice. I don't think there is any standard for them to support today, but at the least they could add the hardware support in case there is a standard one day.


one an hope we see a standard sooner and not later.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

HiDefGator said:


> I don't think you need to worry about Dish not having any DVR's after the lawsuit is resolved. In the end Tivo desperately needs their money so they will license the patents to Dish not shutdown their DVR's.
> 
> But why would you go with Dish when DTV is about to have more HD than anyone else? Their DVR is certainly no less buggy than the HR 20.


I was contemplating the same thing, and it came to this: up front cost. I just got Dish installed last week.

I have a Dish ViP622, and another SD DVR installed (both are "dual room"), and upfront I paid exactly $0.00. Both DVRs are leased. If I buy another ViP622 (they range from about $300 on eBay if you're lucky to $499 direct from Dish), I own it. If I cancel the service, it's mine to keep, sell, whatever.

Secondly - I don't know if DirecTV has this, but with Dish, they have a way of putting both tuner signals on one cable, which for me meant no extra runs (the locations of the boxes have two coax cables each, and the secondary TVs have only one).

Contrast that with DirecTV - $199 for _each_ HD DVR, and *they are leased, you do not own the receiver*. There is no multiroom solution, so I would have to have one HD or SD receiver at each TV location (for me, that's three HDTVs, but I would have gone with just two). So $400 up front for leasing the boxes.

So anyway, I switched because I felt I was paying a lot of money for not much in the way of TV service. I had no premium channels - simply the lowest digital tier with two HD DVRs. It was costing me $90 per month, not including the internet (since my company pays for that). I tried to call to get the sweet $99 "Triple Play" deal, but was told that it was only for new customers. There are two more levels of triple play, but I only "qualified" for the most expensive one with all the premium channels etc. at $160 per month, not including the $24 per month for the DVRs ($11.95 each). So they offered me that "deal" and wouldn't even think about any of the others. So I guess I only "qualified" to pay more per month, not less. Big surprise there.

When I called to cancel, they tried to offer me all sorts of things (but still not the $99 triple play), which tells me that they don't value existing customers. The guy was like "well, if you don't keep at least the digital service, the internet will go up to $57 per month." Little did he know that I don't even pay for that. 

So anyway...

For $30 less per month, I have more channels than Comcast could ever deliver in the near future, and it's great. I'm actually thinking about cancelling my internet and going with a cheaper DSL option as well! I don't game anymore, so the ridiculous speed isn't so necessary. If my company ever stops paying for it, I will jump in a heartbeat.

I have been messing around with the ViP622 for the past week, and let me tell you: it is miles ahead of the Scientific Atlanta 8300 that I had with Comcast. Multiple rooms, multiple delete, great storage, and so far no bugs at all. Even the included remotes are pretty good.

All in all, I've very happy with it so far. There was a really bad thunderstorm and my brother and sister-in-law happened to be over (this was the day after installation, so not many recordings), and the signal kept going out (although the system would try to find it and usually succeed after about 30-60 seconds). He said "you should switch back to cable." I said, "I won't pay $30 extra bucks a month for less channels, just so I won't miss a show."

As you can see, I like TV a lot, but it doesn't run my life, and if I miss a piece of an episode, it's no big deal. Especially not worth $30+ per month more.

Dish does have some weird HD channels (Voom) that are fun to watch sometimes. I get a kick out of the KungFu channel. (no pun intended)

So, it's only been a week, and so far, I don't regret it one bit. I plan to get another ViP622 in the near future.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

GoHokies! said:


> Actually, I have don't have a problem.
> 
> Right now, customers have the option of choosing a TV service that allows them to use Tivo or a TV service that doesn't. Even though they offer different products, every customer that chooses Dish is a lost opportunity for Tivo, so it is in their best interest to pull as many customers away from Dish as possible.
> 
> Yes, it would be nice to have the cash from a cash settlement, but it would be far nicer to have Dish customers buying a real Tivo for their new cable service.


Hope I'm not smeeking but then again I don't really care. 

There is no guarantee that someone switching from cable to satellite would become a Tivo user. Granted, having satellite means that I have no reason to buy a Tivo, this was no different than when I was with Comcast. I want HD with DVR. So my options were (in order of monthly price, high to low):

Cable with Tivo Series 3
Cable with HTPC and cablecard
Cable with Sci Atl DVR
Satellite with their DVR

Notice how the only option more expensive in terms of upfront cost than Tivo would be a full blown HTPC system at multiple thousands of dollars, and even then, it's cheaper on a monthly basis!

I loved Tivo when I had it, but honestly I don't see myself switching back to Tivo in the foreseeable future, _if ever_. This is coming from someone who's *had* Tivo and knows how great the interface is. I sincerely doubt that Tivo is converting _anyone_ from cable HD DVRs who hasn't already "tasted the fruit."

So from that perspective, I'd have to agree - hurting Dish isn't necessarily going to help them. It may even drive people away from Tivo, in the worst case: people want DVRs so they have to switch to cable or direcTV, and have to pay upfront costs, so they won't want to shell out even more money for Tivo service.

Ideal situation for Tivo: Dish licenses Tivo software for their boxes.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Shawn95GT said:


> I've heard good and bad for the 622. Mostly good.
> 
> The only limitation that I think I'd run into is that there are a fixed number of 'events' that it can manage. Any show matching your 'season pass' (whatever Dish calls it) is an event, even if it isn't recording it. This gets ugly quick with syndicated shows.
> 
> ...


They are called Timers, they are the same as Season Passes, and yes, there is a maximum of 50. So far I haven't even reached 20, but I'll report back if this ends up being a pain.

Someone complained about the "To Do" list, but I actually like it, because you can quickly see what is going to be recorded, on what tuner, what's being skipped, why, and you can go around and choose another airing of your episode if you so wish. Also, reordering your Timer priority (think: Season Pass Manager) doesn't require a 5 minute wait when you hit Done.

Another nice option is the guide - you can choose to have the little video playing or not, and there are a few different flavors of each available as well.

All in all, I've very happy.


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

davecramer74 said:


> Well, at the end of the year, thats when id make that choice. Dish requires 49 up front and no commitment and you get their HD dvr. If you do a 18month commitment, there is no 49 up front. So, i could go with dish, have the most HD of anyone right now and dump them at the end of the year when directv does deliver. Or, i could pay directv 299, have a 2 year commitment and quite possibly be disappointed that they dont deliver 100 HD channels in the next 6 months. Seems like my logical choice is to go with who will cost me next to nothing and wont ask me for a committment and always leave my options open.


If you use the club dish referral cards you can get a fee install without any fee and without the 18 month commitment.


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Well maybe I'm confused. What does a problem with the IR sensors have to do with the two companies not getting along?
> 
> Problems with IR sensors was the reason I dumped my standalone Tivos for DirecTivo's years ago when they came out. You just can't beat the reliability of an integrated solution. If I was going to use Dish I would be inclined to get a Dish DVR rather than have two boxes piled next to my TV.


I picked the Tivo boxes for the SD recording instead of the Dish DVR. It did cost me a little more but it lets me use the Tivos with upgraded hard drives and the better interface. So far the IRs have been working good with the Dish receivers.


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## 1003 (Jul 14, 2000)

*How does*
one qualify for Club Dish? I keep hearing whispers about it like 'Fight Club' but can't find much information. What I can find on dishnetwork.com website seems to require the new subsciber to agree to a 18 month commitment.

Does anyone have sucess with Dish/Voom receiver/TiVo Series1 combination? Having the option of using the old Voom box with a lifetimed TiVo already here may help to push my wife off her DirecTV addiction...


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

classicX said:


> Hope I'm not smeeking but then again I don't really care.


That's a good attitude to have - try and read more before posting. Asked and answered, discussion taking place in a more appropriate thread.

My bottom line for this thread still stands. Go ahead and get that Dish DVR now, but don't count on it recording any football games this fall. If it does, that's great, but that isn't a sure thing by a long shot.


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

JJ said:


> *How does*
> one qualify for Club Dish? I keep hearing whispers about it like 'Fight Club' but can't find much information. What I can find on dishnetwork.com website seems to require the new subsciber to agree to a 18 month commitment.


All you need to do is ask a friend that has dish for a club dish code. If you sign up directly at dishnetwork.com you can select the no commitment option. If you sign up at a local dealer they may require the 18 month agreement.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

I can give you a club dish code, PM me if you're interested.


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## magnumis (Jan 6, 2005)

I also have an extra ClubDish code. PM me if you can use it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

jqp said:


> Well, Comcast here is now forcing all it's users to have a digital box at each TV set. This is the last straw with Comcast. I've got a Series 2 single tuner and a series 2 dual tuner box. The dual tuner will become a single tuner under this new setup.


OMG!! I hope they don't do that here!

My series3 CAN'T control a STB, and comcast won't give up cablecards unless you pay for digital cable (which I don't need or want).

The series2's is already controlling a dish network receiver and recording analog cable. So I'd lose HBO....


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

If they only offer digital cable, you'll either get digital cable or nothing.

I haven't followed the thread dedicated to this closely, I would hope that Comcast would offer a tier of service containing about the same channels as basic cable for the same price.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> If they only offer digital cable, you'll either get digital cable or nothing.


If they offer digital cable or nothing they will get none of my money... I'm sure there are others that feel that way as well. Seems stupid on their part.

Can they legally make basic cable customers pay for digital cable and a STB?? I thought these things were regulated..


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

They certainly can - one of the big cable companies actually got a waiver of the forced cablecard rollout by promising to go all digital in the near future.

If they offer you the same channels for the same money, you seriously wouldn't take the cablcards and take advantage of the direct digital recording?


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## gwsat (Sep 14, 2006)

Shawn95GT said:


> I almost went to Dish but it was just too expensive for me. The cable bundle deals are hard to beat.


Me, too. One of the principal reasons I stick with cable is that I subscribe to HD cable with HBO and Showtime, high speed Internet, and telephone service from Cox OKC. I get a nice discount on each service and enjoy the added convenience of a single monthly bill for them all. This makes making a change to satellite a far less appealing option to me than it might otherwise have been.



classicX said:


> I loved Tivo when I had it, but honestly I don't see myself switching back to Tivo in the foreseeable future, _if ever_. This is coming from someone who's *had* Tivo and knows how great the interface is. I sincerely doubt that Tivo is converting _anyone_ from cable HD DVRs who hasn't already "tasted the fruit."


I think this may be so because of how expensive the S3 is compared to a rental box from the cable company. It was certainly true in my case. Because of the VERY high price for the S3, I resisted buying one for a long time, despite being the owner of an S1 with a lifetime subscription, which I could transfer to an S3.

I finally did make the move to an S3, shortly after the first of the year, primarily because the S3s could record OTA HD programming. Here in OKC, Cox has a disagreement with the owners of both the local ABC and local Fox affiliates and cant carry their HD programming. Also, I was able to transfer my existing lifetime subscription for a one time payment of $199. It took purchasing my S3 to give me the resources I needed to record both OTA and cable HD programming and have a program guide and search features that integrated both kinds of reception.

I ultimately decided all of this was worth the S3s price to me, but on a purely economic basis, I would be the first to concede that it probably doesnt make much sense, even given what I do get out of it.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> They certainly can - one of the big cable companies actually got a waiver of the forced cablecard rollout by promising to go all digital in the near future.
> 
> If they offer you the same channels for the same money, you seriously wouldn't take the cablcards and take advantage of the direct digital recording?


Same channels for the money? Sure, but that's not what I'm saying. Here, they won't give you cablecards unless you subscribe to digital cable, which is in the neighborhood of $65/mo. The cablecards add another $4/mo.

If they want to give me cablecards and digital cable for $15/mo, sure... Then free STB's for the rest of the tv's..


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

One would hope that the cable companies would offer something in between no service and $65/month digital service if they go all digital to keep people like you...

I didn't follow the Comcast Chicago thread all that closely and then it got way off topic and locked so I don't know if Comcast is offering anything like that.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

GoHokies! said:


> One would hope that the cable companies would offer something in between no service and $65/month digital service if they go all digital to keep people like you...
> 
> I didn't follow the Comcast Chicago thread all that closely and then it got way off topic and locked so I don't know if Comcast is offering anything like that.


nope, that never came up


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

GoHokies! said:


> One would hope that the cable companies would offer something in between no service and $65/month digital service if they go all digital to keep people like you...
> 
> I didn't follow the Comcast Chicago thread all that closely and then it got way off topic and locked so I don't know if Comcast is offering anything like that.


Agreed, except, isn't the most basic package part of franchise agreements? I'm sure the cable companies would love to do away with the $15/mo plan..


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## jqp (Dec 3, 2004)

Comcast IS offering an entry level digital package for $49.99 that includes the same channels as basic cable. Tha price includes 1 set top box.

My beef with that is now my Dual Tuner Series 2 boxes are crippled back to a single tuner box. They cannot control two set top boxes, only one.

So if I stay with Comcast, I have to pay $49.99 plus another $6 a month for the second set top box, plus my Tivo's get crippled.

Plus, I now cannot have a simple analog cable setup to watch TV in the kitchen now. I've got to have a stupid set top box with a big clunky remote strapped to the TV.

Ugh.

JQP


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

Options are:

Cable. More expensive.
Dish Network. Good Price, not so good equipment.
Directv. Good Price, Best in HD for Price and Channels. But, Tivo is pushing away and going with Cable.

But any way you go, the Tivo DT is crippled to a ST unit.


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## GoHokies! (Sep 21, 2005)

JPQ, that does sound like a raw deal, even $50 bor basic cable is a bit on the expensive side - it looks like there is no digital equivalent to the "lifeline" analog cable.



wolflord11 said:


> Directv. Good Price, Best in HD for Price and Channels. But, Tivo is pushing away and going with Cable.


I don't know how you can call DirecTV "best" in HD when they don't offer full resolution HD like the other options.  Also for the record, it was DirecTV that pushed Tivo away, not the other way around.


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## nirisahn (Nov 19, 2005)

I've had a dish pvr. Unless there have been major changes in the last couple of years, I found mine to be a pain in the neck. You have to turn them off regularly to receive updates, and hope they come back on by themselves if you have something scheduled to record. Plus, I don't think they have series pass type functionality. When I had it, if a show was moved to a new timeslot, or was 2 hours that week, or had 2 episodes back to back, it still recorded at the old time, just like a vcr. It didn't adjust itself for the rescheduling like TiVo does. The longer I had both (Dish pvr in my home office, TiVo for my widescreen tv), the more I appreciated all the things my TiVo could do that the Dish pvr couldn't.


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## TiVo Troll (Mar 23, 2006)

jqp said:


> Comcast IS offering an entry level digital package for $49.99 that includes the same channels as basic cable. Tha price includes 1 set top box.
> 
> My beef with that is now my Dual Tuner Series 2 boxes are crippled back to a single tuner box. They cannot control two set top boxes, only one.
> 
> ...


In my area Comcast is offering a promo deal with digital basic cable for $33 monthly for 6 months. To sweeten the digital deal, besides the one digital STB normally included, Comcast is offering two additional digital STB's plus one HD STB free for a year.

But the digital channels are simulcast along with analog versions. And the new digital STB's are about the size of a portable CD player or bare HDD.

The regular price of digital basic is $50.25, while analog basic is 49.25. Analog limited basic w/local OTA stations, shopping channels and public service channels only, is $15 monthly.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

gwsat said:


> Me, too. One of the principal reasons I stick with cable is that I subscribe to HD cable with HBO and Showtime, high speed Internet, and telephone service from Cox OKC. I get a nice discount on each service and enjoy the added convenience of a single monthly bill for them all. This makes making a change to satellite a far less appealing option to me than it might otherwise have been.


You're lucky you were able to get that deal. When I tried to switch to a bundle, they said I only qualified for the Comcast Triple Play SuperGiantExpensive Platinum (or something like that), which would've ended up being MORE than I was already paying them. I tried several times over internet and phone to get then to give me the $99 per month triple play, but they wouldn't.

That's when I started looking at alternatives, and finally decided on Dish.

Maybe after my commitment is up with Dish, I'll think about switching back.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

gwsat said:


> I finally did make the move to an S3, shortly after the first of the year, primarily because the S3s could record OTA HD programming. Here in OKC, Cox has a disagreement with the owners of both the local ABC and local Fox affiliates and cant carry their HD programming. Also, I was able to transfer my existing lifetime subscription for a one time payment of $199. It took purchasing my S3 to give me the resources I needed to record both OTA and cable HD programming and have a program guide and search features that integrated both kinds of reception.
> 
> I ultimately decided all of this was worth the S3s price to me, but on a purely economic basis, I would be the first to concede that it probably doesnt make much sense, even given what I do get out of it.


For what it's worth, the Dish DVR can record from an OTA antenna as well as the sat signal. And it was free.

Granted, if you purchase an additional one (can be found for around $300 on eBay), you have to have satellite to use it. The S3 can be used with just OTA. Personally, I don't think the extra cost is worth that, since I don't have an OTA antenna and don't plan on getting one.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

nirisahn said:


> I've had a dish pvr. Unless there have been major changes in the last couple of years, I found mine to be a pain in the neck. You have to turn them off regularly to receive updates, and hope they come back on by themselves if you have something scheduled to record. Plus, I don't think they have series pass type functionality. When I had it, if a show was moved to a new timeslot, or was 2 hours that week, or had 2 episodes back to back, it still recorded at the old time, just like a vcr. It didn't adjust itself for the rescheduling like TiVo does. The longer I had both (Dish pvr in my home office, TiVo for my widescreen tv), the more I appreciated all the things my TiVo could do that the Dish pvr couldn't.


I don't know how long ago you had your Dish PVR, but every single item in your list is no longer an issue.

The recording actually gives you more options than Tivo - you can record all episode, all new episodes, once (for the specific showing), and weekday (only record this show Monday - Friday, so no weekend marathons). You can also have it, instead of recording the show, automatically tune to that channel, or you can just have it remind you that the show is coming on. Interestingly enough, the maximum number of kept episodes before autodeleting can be adjusted from 1 to 25, or "keep all."

The longer I use it, the more I like it over the Comcast DVR I had (Scientific Atlanta 8300HD), which had the the ugliest looking interface I'd ever seen on a DVR.


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Am I the only one here with a ViP622?


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

Maybe - it is a Tivo forum after all .

My sister has one - it looks pretty slick and I noticed the navigation on it was WAY faster than my S3.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

> Am I the only one here with a ViP622?


I am guessing you are not but the reality is once you have decided to go HD with a Dish HD DVR there are other forums dedicated to your equipment. I have an old Dish 510 DVR when I have questions about it I go to other forums. So I am guessing most ViP622 owners are not monitoring this forum.

Thanks,


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## samo (Oct 7, 1999)

classicX said:


> Am I the only one here with a ViP622?


I have one. I also have HR20 (I sub to both DirecTV and Dish). Both are excellent HD DVRs, but I like Vip622 better. I don't post here about Dish DVRs often, I hate it when some smart detective figures that I work for Dish because I live in Littleton or better yet some Tivengelist start talking about E* shutting down DVRs because of lawsuit. IMHO, the best DVR on the market now is Vip622. TiVo S3 doesn't come close on all counts - stability, features or price. But if you don't have satellite, then perhaps cable DVRs are so bad that you have to put up with a crippled overpriced unit with high subscription cost.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

classicX said:


> Am I the only one here with a ViP622?


I'm going to assume that you know about this site?
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=107


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