# Wishlist for Sports - Problems after guide update



## Chir (Nov 24, 2010)

Greetings:

Anyone else having issues with wishlist searches with the new guide data? I had a rather simple wishlist that worked

Keywords: Tigers, Detroit, -regional
Title Keyword: MLB
Category: Sports: Baseball

This has been working GREAT for the longest time-- haven't missed a game all season. 

After the guide updated, I don't see anything Tigers games in my To-Do lists anymore. I can view the wishlist and I see upcoming shows, but they're not flagged to record (and I verified they won't as it skipped todays game!). 

I created a new wishlist and it looks like the -regional is whats causing the problem. If I remove that, I get games, but now I'm stuck dealing with the regional coverage issues again, as I'm seeing the same game on multiple channels.

Any tips on working with the new guide data for sports?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Is regional in the description for local rsn games now? 

You may have to try a different key word. 

But if they show in the upcoming they should record unless they violate some other rule. If you have it with regional, what does the to do list say on show all? Anything?


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Welcome to the wonderful world of the upgrade to the guide data that provides "more accurate program information"



> Why are my WishList results not what I expect?
> Since the guide data is changing, if the keywords your WishList is looking for are not in the new guide descriptions, you may need to make a new WishList and delete the old one. If that fails, please contact TiVo Support.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> Welcome to your wonderful workd of the upgrade to the guide data that provides "more accurate program information"


Not useful in this case as the wish list is finding them. Just not recording them.


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## Chir (Nov 24, 2010)

> Is regional in the description for local rsn games now?
> 
> You may have to try a different key word.


No, I don't think regional is in the description anymore. In fact, the descriptions appear to be identical. However, I wouldn't expect that adding "-regional" would really matter if the desription isn't the same -- it should record both. With -regional added as a keyword, all the games disappear. It behaving like I'm adding regional as a keyword instead of -regional.



> But if they show in the upcoming they should record unless they violate some other rule. If you have it with regional, what does the to do list say on show all? Anything?


I agree; they show up in the upcoming list when you're looking at the wishlist. It shows no conflicts. I only have one show recording on my bolt, so I should have 3 free. I'm not sure where else to look for conflicts.

I also see a big chunk of data missing in the upcomming shows. I see games through 8/27, then the next game is 9/3. I checked the schedule, and there are games that aren't showing up on the wishlist...


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## ahwman (Jan 24, 2013)

Chir said:


> Greetings:
> 
> Anyone else having issues with wishlist searches with the new guide data? I had a rather simple wishlist that worked
> 
> ...


I also have a wishlist set up to record the Detroit Tigers which has been working flawlessly for years using the details below, however my Roamio Pro hasn't yet made the switch over to Rovi guide data. I will monitor it to see if I experience the same issues once the transition occurs on my side...

Keyword: Detroit Tigers, -Regional
Title keyword: MLB Baseball
Category: Sports: Sports Event


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Have you tried recreating the wishlist? Also perhaps the scheduler hasn't run yet since it may still be indexing the guide data.


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

Chir said:


> Greetings:
> 
> Anyone else having issues with wishlist searches with the new guide data? I had a rather simple wishlist that worked
> 
> ...


I am having the same problem. My Wishlist Upcoming list shows the game, but it does not flag it to record. There are no conflicts (according to Tivo).


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

kazak99 said:


> I am having the same problem. My Wishlist Upcoming list shows the game, but it does not flag it to record. There are no conflicts (according to Tivo).


UPDATE: I went to Modify Recording Options > Record: and changed from New only to New & Repeats. It does flag the game to record now. The game on the guide is marked New, but this change seems to force the recording.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

kazak99 said:


> UPDATE: I went to Modify Recording Options > Record: and changed from New only to New & Repeats. It does flag the game to record now. The game on the guide is marked New, but this change seems to force the recording.


You probably just forced a refresh. Change it back to New and it probably will record. The "New" tag in the guide isn't actually used for anything. The original air date is what is used (if you hit info while viewing a description you can see the date).


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## Chir (Nov 24, 2010)

rainwater said:


> Have you tried recreating the wishlist? Also perhaps the scheduler hasn't run yet since it may still be indexing the guide data.


Yes, that was the first thing I did. I checked again this morning, and games still aren't set to record. I would expect everything to have settled down by now. I still see the same symptoms -- SOME games show up in the upcomming while viewing the wishlist itself (there is a big chunk of missing data), but nothing is scheduled to record. No conflicts.



kazak99 said:


> I went to Modify Recording Options > Record: and changed from New only to New & Repeats.


I'll give that a try this evening. Thanks for the tip!


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Similar problem here (Roamio Basic Antenna) with OnePasses for most Preseason football and all College football, the First Aired Date is missing so To Do List says Will Not Record, Re-run.

I just reported it to TiVo although their form didn't really match the facts. It is so simple and so important, it would have been about the first thing I would have checked if I was them. In computereez (SQL), 

Select * from GuideData where FirstAiredDate is null


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

rainwater said:


> You probably just forced a refresh. Change it back to New and it probably will record. The "New" tag in the guide isn't actually used for anything. The original air date is what is used (if you hit info while viewing a description you can see the date).


I restarted my Tivo manually before trying your suggestion. When switching between the New Only vs. New & Repeats options - it only flags to record on the New & repeats (does not on New only).


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

kazak99 said:


> I restarted my Tivo manually before trying your suggestion. When switching between the New Only vs. New & Repeats options - it only flags to record on the New & repeats (does not on New only).


Yeah, it seems the air date is wrong. It isn't using the current date which is causing the issue. Without having the correct air date, there will be no way to have a OnePass or wishlist record only new sporting events only. Hopefully this will be fixed as it will result in a lot of duplicates and other issues.


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## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

Add me to the list of people with wishlists that are now not very useful. The New flag is not being recognized, they changed the listings to have the team name only without the city name in the title and the city name only in the descriptions for MLB teams. I also have another wishlist to record HD music programs and now it's finding kids shows, movies and TV shows that now have Music in their categories that did not have that before. This new guide data is so different that I'm going to have to add exclusions to weed out all the programs that it's finding now that it did not used to find. Frustrating!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

beryrinaldo said:


> Add me to the list of people with wishlists that are now not very useful. The New flag is not being recognized, they changed the listings to have the team name only without the city name in the title and the city name only in the descriptions for MLB teams. I also have another wishlist to record HD music programs and now it's finding kids shows, movies and TV shows that now have Music in their categories that did not have that before. This new guide data is so different that I'm going to have to add exclusions to weed out all the programs that it's finding now that it did not used to find. Frustrating!


Interesting since TV guide has things like Baltimore Orioles or Orioles. I don't ever see just Baltimore.


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## n2lovell (May 18, 2014)

kazak99 said:


> UPDATE: I went to Modify Recording Options > Record: and changed from New only to New & Repeats. It does flag the game to record now. The game on the guide is marked New, but this change seems to force the recording.


Yes, this is required for Sports programs right now. They don't have an original airdate in Rovi data.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

beryrinaldo said:


> The New flag is not being recognized


The New flag has never been used to identify a "New" or "Repeat" program. The original air date is what determines if a program is new. And now, Rovi is not setting the date to the current date which is why they all are considered repeats.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Maybe it is different for the Rovi data, but with the Gracenote/TMS data, the "NEW" flag in the guide is based on the OAD being the same as the day of the showing.

Question for someone with the Rovi data and access to USA "network" - what does the guide show for the next episode of "Motive" (Sunday, August 28, 2300EDT)?


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## kazak99 (Feb 10, 2015)

lpwcomp said:


> Question for someone with the Rovi data and access to USA "network" - what does the guide show for the next episode of "Motive" (Sunday, August 28, 2300EDT)?


My Roamio shows, "First Aired: 8/28/2016"


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> Maybe it is different for the Rovi data, but with the Gracenote/TMS data, the "NEW" flag in the guide is based on the OAD being the same as the day of the showing.


"New" when determining whether to record means it originally aired in the last 28 days and hasn't been recorded yet. So they aren't the same. I think it is important to distinguish them since we are talking about completely fresh data so this rule will be used to determine recording and will likely record a lot of programs people don't expect them to.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rainwater said:


> "New" when determining whether to record means it originally aired in the last 28 days and hasn't been recorded yet. So they aren't the same. I think it is important to distinguish them since we are talking about completely fresh data so this rule will be used to determine recording and will likely record a lot of programs people don't expect them to.


Actually, for sports, I have seen "new" mean the same day of the event and not the 28 day rule. Sports have a different tag of "Event" that triggers a different rule.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> "New" when determining whether to record means it originally aired in the last 28 days and hasn't been recorded yet. So they aren't the same. I think it is important to distinguish them since we are talking about completely fresh data so this rule will be used to determine recording and will likely record a lot of programs people don't expect them to.


I am well aware of that. I was only addressing the "NEW" flag in the guide.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Actually, for sports, I have seen "new" mean the same day of the event and not the 28 day rule. Sports have a different tag of "Event" that triggers a different rule.


No they don't.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Actually, for sports, I have seen "new" mean the same day of the event and not the 28 day rule. Sports have a different tag of "Event" that triggers a different rule.


No. Sports use the same recording rules. TiVo has not changed those rules in over 10 years.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

kazak99 said:


> My Roamio shows, "First Aired: 8/28/2016"


It appears that Rovi is using the first _*U.S.*_ showing for OAD.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> No they don't.


I tested it a few months ago.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I tested it a few months ago.


Details please.


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## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

ahwman said:


> I also have a wishlist set up to record the Detroit Tigers which has been working flawlessly for years using the details below, however my Roamio Pro hasn't yet made the switch over to Rovi guide data. I will monitor it to see if I experience the same issues once the transition occurs on my side...
> 
> Keyword: Detroit Tigers, -Regional
> Title keyword: MLB Baseball
> Category: Sports: Sports Event


One thing I've found in the new MLB network listings for these regional games is the " or " between the two games they list, so using "* or *" instead of "Regional" is working for me now to exclude these games from MLB network but find the games on my local CSN channel.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

It looks like to me the issue is repeats of sports have the correct first aired date. However, the original airing doesn't. Yet when set to "New" only, it will record the repeat but not the original airing of the event. Very strange. I'm not even sure how to report this issue.

Plus, setting to New & Repeats will record every airing because it doesn't correlate the two airings as the same one.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Also, now it uses the team name in the title but in the description it uses the city. So its

"NFL Football" "X at Y"
"A at B"

That is pretty dumb.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Same exact results for me. This needs to get corrected.



rainwater said:


> It looks like to me the issue is repeats of sports have the correct first aired date. However, the original airing doesn't. Yet when set to "New" only, it will record the repeat but not the original airing of the event. Very strange. I'm not even sure how to report this issue.
> 
> Plus, setting to New & Repeats will record every airing because it doesn't correlate the two airings as the same one.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

This is perhaps the biggest issue so far with Rovi data for me. Issues with missing/incorrect channels can be fixed, but this issue is a big one for anyone recording sports programs using auto record wishlists. Hard to believe beta testing didn't uncover it, so I'm guessing it got released this way with full knowledge of the problem, and the fix to it for TiVo can't be trivial.


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## streich (Jan 24, 2007)

Issues with OnePass and Little League World Series:

Had a OnePass for "2016 Little League World Series" (not a WishList, but a OnePass made by selecting:


Find TV, Movies, & Videos
Browse TV & Movies
Sports
Baseball
2016 Little League

Although there are games this weekend, and the "Episodes" listing shows 4 games on 8/27 and 8/28, the Upcoming list shows none, although I do have the ABC channel in my lineup.


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## powrcow (Sep 27, 2010)

moyekj said:


> This is perhaps the biggest issue so far with Rovi data for me. Issues with missing/incorrect channels can be fixed, but this issue is a big one for anyone recording sports programs using auto record wishlists. Hard to believe beta testing didn't uncover it, so I'm guessing it got released this way with full knowledge of the problem, and the fix to it for TiVo can't be trivial.


I'll add a +1 to this problem. This is the biggest issue right now and it doesn't look like an easy fix.

My current fix is to create the wishlist to record New and repeats, and then manually go through and remove the repeats. This will work for now, but will be much more tedious when more sports start up.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

streich said:


> Issues with OnePass and Little League World Series:
> 
> Had a OnePass for "2016 Little League World Series" (not a WishList, but a OnePass made by selecting:
> 
> ...


Sports are completely broken. You will probably have to create multiple OnePasses for each channel. Even then, it will be a crap shoot if you get all of the recordings because the original air dates are messed up. The Rovi data tends to not link all sports with the same title together as one series.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

powrcow said:


> I'll add a +1 to this problem. This is the biggest issue right now and it doesn't look like an easy fix.
> 
> My current fix is to create the wishlist to record New and repeats, and then manually go through and remove the repeats. This will work for now, but will be much more tedious when more sports start up.


That's the only way I could fix it with all the ARWLs I have. And yes, that's totally broken. Tivo is going to have to hammer Rovi to fix this.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

rainwater said:


> Sports are completely broken. You will probably have to create multiple OnePasses for each channel. Even then, it will be a crap shoot if you get all of the recordings because the original air dates are messed up. The Rovi data tends to not link all sports with the same title together as one series.


NASCAR is a perfect example - with TMS guide all series showed up as NASCAR Racing, now each series (Camping World, Xfinity, Sprint Cup) has its own title for the series. I was able to fix this with keywords in my ARWL so that all will record but only by setting the new and repeat flag. I have to have an ARWL because I don't want qualifying, practice or pre/post race shows, only races. If you use separate 1Ps you get all this crap you have to cancel.


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

moyekj said:


> ...
> Hard to believe beta testing didn't uncover it, so I'm guessing it got released this way with full knowledge of the problem, and the fix to it for TiVo can't be trivial.


It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission.

-- Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper (9 December 1906  1 January 1992)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

You can quote whomever you want but it doesn't make it any less of a stupid and obvious oversight.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

slowbiscuit said:


> NASCAR is a perfect example - with TMS guide all series showed up as NASCAR Racing, now each series (Camping World, Xfinity, Sprint Cup) has its own title for the series.


yup noticed that too. It also switched my old recording of "NASCAR Racing" (which recorded any NASCAR on FOX & NBC....no cable) to "NASCAR Xfinity Series". It also uses different names of the pre-show than "Countdown to Green" or "NASCAR Pre-Race"


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

They must not watch tv, how could they not check sports ?


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> You can quote whomever you want but it doesn't make it any less of a stupid and obvious oversight.


My point was that it was not an oversight.

They had to know about all these problems, yet released it anyway. These are all the same problems WMC users had when they transitioned from Gracenote to Rovi. A year later and still not fixed...


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I guess it is back to VCR type recording because the only way to record sports now is to do a manual recording. OnePasses and Wishlists are completely broken for seemingly ALL sports. The bad part is there is no way to report this issue as TiVo's lineup specialist aren't going to understand the issue. Because it is such a massive issue with the data and not a simple fix, I don't have a lot of hope it will be fixed anytime soon.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

powrcow said:


> I'll add a +1 to this problem. This is the biggest issue right now and it doesn't look like an easy fix. My current fix is to create the wishlist to record New and repeats, and then manually go through and remove the repeats. This will work for now, but will be much more tedious when more sports start up.


Might be easier to make them non record and pick through what you want to record from the upcoming list.


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## powrcow (Sep 27, 2010)

TonyD79 said:


> Might be easier to make them non record and pick through what you want to record from the upcoming list.


Not a bad idea, but I'd rather err on the side of too many recordings than missing something.

Fortunately the kids' and wife's shows are doing just fine. I can handle the sports stuff, but it was nicer when I didn't have to think and everything showed up in the TiVo.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Might be easier to make them non record and pick through what you want to record from the upcoming list.


It is much more difficult for baseball. For a single team there might be over 30 airings since they tend to replay each game twice. But then you have the occasional day game and it is hard to tell if an airing is new since repeats are shown as "New" now.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rainwater said:


> It is much more difficult for baseball. For a single team there might be over 30 airings since they tend to replay each game twice. But then you have the occasional day game and it is hard to tell if an airing is new since repeats are shown as "New" now.


I can see that but you can keep just a few days ahead rather than two weeks.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

I dunno. The whole ideal of this DVR is for it to manage it. If I have to manage it. What good is it?


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Pains me to say this... But I'm glad I still have my FiOS DVR's also. Shakes head. This isn't rocket science. 

Reminds me of the commercial with monkeys and the chart showing things were going up. When in actuality the chart was upside down. 

Must have been filmed at Rovi.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

If you're not watching your ToDo List like a hawk now, you're going to be in for some missed recording pain. Sucks but that's what we have to deal with until they get through this migration (and hope that Rovi cares what Tivo complains about).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> If you're not watching your ToDo List like a hawk now, you're going to be in for some missed recording pain. Sucks but that's what we have to deal with until they get through this migration (and hope that Rovi cares what Tivo complains about).


I agree. But I always watch my todo list.


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## mmatarella (Jul 29, 2014)

Have a OnePass for Formula One. Missed Practice session this a.m. Was going to miss the Qualifying tomorrow too. It was going to pick up the race. Was going to miss all three next weekend. 

Created a new OnePass on the Practice, Quali, and Race which showed them all recording, but none of these next weekend being picked up.

I guess I'll try a wishlist later and see if that will pick them up? I hope all 80 of my season passes aren't toast.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> I can see that but you can keep just a few days ahead rather than two weeks.


Maybe you want to do that. Not me. I will do it for a week or so. But beyond that, if it is not fixed, I will have to go another route. I have multiple TiVos and record lots of sports. If I have to start managing my ToDo list every day, then that defeats the purpose of TiVos that I have been using for over 10 years.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Exactly!



rainwater said:


> maybe you want to do that. Not me. I will do it for a week or so. But beyond that, if it is not fixed, i will have to go another route. I have multiple tivos and record lots of sports. If i have to start managing my todo list every day, then that defeats the purpose of tivos that i have been using for over 10 years.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

rainwater said:


> If I have to start managing my ToDo list every day, then that defeats the purpose of TiVos that I have been using for over 10 years.


Get ready to be defeated, because this will likely be the new normal.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Maybe you want to do that. Not me. I will do it for a week or so. But beyond that, if it is not fixed, I will have to go another route. I have multiple TiVos and record lots of sports. If I have to start managing my ToDo list every day, then that defeats the purpose of TiVos that I have been using for over 10 years.


I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed. I was talking short term.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

TiVo Sarah is aware of some issues. Check this link and provide your TSN for them to investigate.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542872


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## senorgregster (Nov 12, 2005)

mmatarella said:


> Have a OnePass for Formula One. Missed Practice session this a.m. Was going to miss the Qualifying tomorrow too. It was going to pick up the race. Was going to miss all three next weekend.
> 
> Created a new OnePass on the Practice, Quali, and Race which showed them all recording, but none of these next weekend being picked up.
> 
> I guess I'll try a wishlist later and see if that will pick them up? I hope all 80 of my season passes aren't toast.


Same here. This is awful.


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## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

rainwater said:


> I guess it is back to VCR type recording because the only way to record sports now is to do a manual recording. OnePasses and Wishlists are completely broken for seemingly ALL sports. The bad part is there is no way to report this issue as TiVo's lineup specialist aren't going to understand the issue. Because it is such a massive issue with the data and not a simple fix, I don't have a lot of hope it will be fixed anytime soon.


Please do contact support - open a case, and post a message on TiVo's forums. I am getting responses from their support people in both venues...at least they are hearing the issue from me and if all of us contact them and explain our issues, it's more likely that they will be addressed. Posting here is good and sharing suggestions amongst the community helps us all, but unless TiVo hears it directly and can ask you for feedback, your issues may not get fixed. Here are my observations/frustrations as of this time:

1) Sports
-- New flag does not seem to be recognized/honored by wishlists
-- Live flag not recognized - when manually scheduling a recording, no prompt to add extra time
-- New listings are different.
---- MLB network used to list "Regional" - I used that to exclude games by my local team that would be blacked out. I'm using "* or *" instead now since the new listings show two possible games which indicates regional coverage.
---- MLB team names are in the title, city names only in the descriptions - the old listings had City-space-Team

2) Movies
-- My wishlists are not matching movies - simply create a wishlist with Category: Movie and only a very few are matched

3) Music
-- I want a wishlist to match concerts and other music shows, but now it matches shows like Hannah Montana, Family Guy, Bubble Guppies and movies with Music in their category. I had one with Category: Music, and Record in HD only with some keywords to exclude, but that list will be huge and difficult to maintain. Based on what I see in the listings now, I think it would be good if I could create one that would match two categories: Performing Arts & Music, but I see no way to get a wishlist to match multiple categories.

So far, it does appear that the One Passes are OK, but I haven't been looking at them in detail yet as I heavily rely on these three types of wishlists to match the sports, music & movies that I would like to have recorded.

I just gave this information to a TiVo support person in their forums and in the case that I have opened when I first started noticing issues with my wishlists. It is my intention to keep bothering them until I see something get done.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

beryrinaldo said:


> So far, it does appear that the One Passes are OK, but I haven't been looking at them in detail yet as I heavily rely on these three types of wishlists to match the sports, music & movies that I would like to have recorded.


One Passes for Sports has the same problem as Wishlists ( in most cases they don't work properly).


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

mmatarella said:


> Have a OnePass for Formula One. Missed Practice session this a.m. Was going to miss the Qualifying tomorrow too. It was going to pick up the race. Was going to miss all three next weekend.
> 
> Created a new OnePass on the Practice, Quali, and Race which showed them all recording, but none of these next weekend being picked up.


It works for me. You need one OP for the races and a second for qualifying, but the qualifying OP must be set to "New & Repeats".


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

jth tv said:


> One Passes for Sports has the same problem as Wishlists ( in most cases they don't work properly).


Yeah, they're giving different show ids even though its the same show so you need multiple OPs.


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## SteveD (Oct 22, 2002)

mmatarella said:


> Have a OnePass for Formula One. Missed Practice session this a.m. Was going to miss the Qualifying tomorrow too. It was going to pick up the race. Was going to miss all three next weekend.
> 
> Created a new OnePass on the Practice, Quali, and Race which showed them all recording, but none of these next weekend being picked up.
> 
> I guess I'll try a wishlist later and see if that will pick them up? I hope all 80 of my season passes aren't toast.


On my Tivo, the race on 8/28 has an OAD of 8/26. Both Practice on 8/26 and Qualifying on 8/27 did not have an OAD. Only the race on 8/28 was scheduled to record.

On another note:
The Indy race tonight was scheduled to record, but only for one hour, 9:30 - 10:30 EDT. Indy lists the race as starting at 9:15 through 11:00. I modified the scheduled recording to record from 9:00 - 12:00 to make sure I caught the whole race, the Tivo responded to my request by rebooting.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

lol.


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## sjmagy (Aug 28, 2016)

Chir said:


> Greetings:
> 
> Anyone else having issues with wishlist searches with the new guide data? I had a rather simple wishlist that worked
> 
> ...


No tips, alas, but same experience / issue. It appears that Rovi doesn't accurately / adequately tag things with as much metadata.... for example, creating a Wishlist search for a category of "Movies > Action Adventure" or trying to find anything by a specific year as a keyword fails with "There are no shows matching this WishList in the next two weeks" even though that same Wishlist has worked flawlessly for years with the prior guide data.

QA? What's QA? Oh, right, that's the thing we make our customers do.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

That's exactly the issue. The TiVo relies on A. having the metadata, B. having it accurate. With out either... We are seeing the results.



sjmagy said:


> No tips, alas, but same experience / issue. *It appears that Rovi doesn't accurately / adequately tag things with as much metadata*.... for example, creating a Wishlist search for a category of "Movies > Action Adventure" or trying to find anything by a specific year as a keyword fails with "There are no shows matching this WishList in the next two weeks" even though that same Wishlist has worked flawlessly for years with the prior guide data.
> 
> QA? What's QA? Oh, right, that's the thing we make our customers do.


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## SirFozzie (Aug 29, 2008)

OnePass for a lot of sports is completely useless right now. The metadata is not collected properly in grouping. So, if I browse sports-Soccer, it will show 9 Bundesliga Soccer listings, each one being a seperate game (and ONLY that game). Therefore, a OnePass using that will fail to record everything BUT that single game. I've had to set up Manual Recording, which defeats the purpose of having a OnePass.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

Anybody found a suitable solution for this yet? My Mets and Tigers Wishlists are so borked. It's really the only major issue I've had since the changeover. I'm with FiOS in NJ and ALL baseball games are listed as MLB Baseball in the guide.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

sangs said:


> Anybody found a suitable solution for this yet? My Mets and Tigers Wishlists are so borked. It's really the only major issue I've had since the changeover. I'm with FiOS in NJ and ALL baseball games are listed as MLB Baseball in the guide.


According to TiVo there is no problem. We are just going to have to manually record sports it seems.


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## edwinyuen (Dec 30, 2010)

rainwater said:


> According to TiVo there is no problem. We are just going to have to manually record sports it seems.


I wonder if we just keep opening cases until they take this seriously. Like others said in this thread (and the one in the Help Forum), this essentially ruins the functionality for Sports (or fills our drives full of repeated sports events).


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## moonscape (Jul 3, 2004)

I don't watch sports, but having Tivo record every airing of a cable news show is beyond annoying.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

moonscape said:


> I don't watch sports, but having Tivo record every airing of a cable news show is beyond annoying.


Not as bad as my wishlist for the Atlanta Braves recording 25 games in the next 10 days. That's 60 hours of useless recordings (the repeats) in 10 days.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

It's much worse than this and goes beyond the Wishlist problem for me. They have the channel assignment and guide data for an incorrect regional sports network assigned to the actual regional sports I receive. I never previously had any problems with the guide or wishlist that picked up baseball games on this channel. Now it looks like I'll have to manually record every baseball game for the rest of the season and they'll all have incorrect program title/information.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

So my "NFL Football" wishlist is like this:
Name = "NFL Football"
Title Keywords = (Night Football) (NFL Football)

Recording options = New & Repeats
Category = Sports:Sports Event

Upcoming shows:

9/8 5:30pm Panthers at Broncos (Will record)
9/11 10:00am Chargers at Chiefs (Will record)
9/11 10:00am Teams TBA (Will record)
*9/11 1:00pm Teams TBA (Won't record)*
9/11 5:20pm Patriots at Cardinals (Will record)
9/12 3:55pm Steelers at Redskins (Will record)

No matter what I tried, the 9/11 1:00pm one above would not change to be recorded. Finally, prompted by a post I saw in another Rovi thread I changed Recording options to "Everything" instead of "New & Repeats" and now finally the 1:00pm recording is set to record.

Not sure I can explain that one? I though only difference between Everything and New & Repeats was that Everything would record duplicates. So only explanation I have is that somehow TiVo thinks the 1:00pm one is a duplicate of one of the others?

Other possible explanation is I have 60 minute end padding, so the 10:00am recording on same channel would end at 2:00pm (i.e. 1 hour overlap on same channel with 1:00pm showing). So if that's the reason it wasn't going to record then that's a pretty serious TiVo bug.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

My guess would be that it thinks the two "Teams TBA" games are the same show because Rovi hasn't assigned unique program IDs to them.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> My guess would be that it thinks the two "Teams TBA" games are the same show because Rovi hasn't assigned unique program IDs to them.


 Yes, recordingId is identical for both, so that's probably it.


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

Yes, this is typical Rovi.

As another example of this currently in the guide, the A&E show "60 Days In" has a new 15 minute "Insider" episode before each weeks new 60 minute episode. Every week this "Insider" episode is considered a repeat of the same episode so it is never set to record even though it is marked as NEW.

As a WMC user, I am used to this, and in my experience this type of problem often gets fixed about 2 or 3 weeks after it starts happening, but then at some point after it has been working for a while it will break again randomly. In my experience, there is very little quality control at Rovi and they are not at all proactive.

For most of the stuff I record, things usually work (I don't record sports, usually). But because of the data inconsistency, I have to keep an eagle eye on my upcoming recordings and compare to zap2it on a daily basis to make sure all is good.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

moyekj said:


> Yes, recordingId is identical for both, so that's probably it.


 FYI, after guide update today "Teams TBA" changed to actual team names and now recordingId is different for each and "New & Repeats" now catches everything again.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I found that I could change that ARWL (same as yours) to new only and now it works because all games have OAD. If you set it to Everything like I tried to do, you also get the NFL Network reruns of the night games.

This is of course dependent on Rovi/Tivo supplying valid OAD for all NFL games going forward, which is perhaps a big IF.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> I found that I could change that ARWL (same as yours) to new only and now it works because all games have OAD. If you set it to Everything like I tried to do, you also get the NFL Network reruns of the night games.
> 
> This is of course dependent on Rovi/Tivo supplying valid OAD for all NFL games going forward, which is perhaps a big IF.


 OK thanks. I don't think I'll chance setting it to New only for now. In my case I don't have SD channels or NFL Network channel in my lineup, so duplicates/reruns shouldn't be an issue.

So it sounds like missing OAD is not for all sports in Rovi guide data then as several posts in this thread have alluded to.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

On my Atlanta OTA Premiere, the three "episodes" of "NFL Football" on 9/11 all say they have an OAD of 9/11/2016 and show up as "NEW" in the guide. However, a "NEW" only 1P does not pick any of them up. Have to set it to "New & Repeats".


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> On my Atlanta OTA Premiere, the three "episodes" of "NFL Football" on 9/11 all say they have an OAD of 9/11/2016 and show up as "NEW" in the guide. However, a "NEW" only 1P does not pick any of them up. Have to set it to "New & Repeats".


 Interesting. Does an ARWL with title keywords "NFL Football" set to record "New" only behave any differently?

EDIT: As per slowbiscuit, changing my ARWL to record "New" only still works for me. I think the addition of OAD for these NFL recordings is new as I'm fairly certain when I first setup the ARWL as "New" only there were no matches. Could be that Rovi incrementally adds more details such as OAD as air time gets closer?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Unfortunately one of my previous "clever" wish lists is now recording WAY too much stuff.. Though I will admit in this case it's arguably because of "more useful" or at least "more detailed" guide data..

I've long had a Premiere|pilot wishlist to catch new shows, and yes, every once in a while a show about an airline pilot, etc.. But for the most part it was good at catching entirely NEW shows.

But the new guide data has a LOT of shows with "The premiere of season 4..." and so on, so I'm killing way way more false hits (in my opinion) than I used to. (Not all first episodes are entitled pilot, so I had to have it search the whole episode, not just the episode title..)


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

mattack said:


> Unfortunately one of my previous "clever" wish lists is now recording WAY too much stuff.. Though I will admit in this case it's arguably because of "more useful" or at least "more detailed" guide data..
> 
> I've long had a Premiere|pilot wishlist to catch new shows, and yes, every once in a while a show about an airline pilot, etc.. But for the most part it was good at catching entirely NEW shows.
> 
> But the new guide data has a LOT of shows with "The premiere of season 4..." and so on, so I'm killing way way more false hits (in my opinion) than I used to. (Not all first episodes are entitled pilot, so I had to have it search the whole episode, not just the episode title..)


 Luckily the "Season Premieres" searches in kmttg are still working well for me for finding season and series premieres, so I just run that once a week or so to look for new premieres I may want to record.


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## SirFozzie (Aug 29, 2008)

Update from Tivo help:

* That is something we are investigating currently. We hope to have that resolved soon, but there are no official ETA timelines for the issue at hand yet. Thankfully any update will be sent to your TiVo box automatically as this is resolved.*


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

But do they intend to resolve sports channels having BS default program listings more than nine days out that Rovi just makes up out of thin air as a placeholder?


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## PatEllis15 (Mar 3, 2010)

So I had no problems last weekend for the Belgian GP. But, like others, my TiVo (premiere), failed to record practice, and would have would have missed qualifying too.

The whole point of the OnePass is to get it all. When I search, the only f1 stuff that even turns up is the race. I had to go to NBCSN, and scroll through the guide to find practice and qualifying and set new OnePasses. I have no confidence that these OnePasses will pick up practice or qualifying in two weeks when the race is in Singapore. Grrrrr......



Pat E


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

PatEllis15 said:


> So I had no problems last weekend for the Belgian GP. But, like others, my TiVo (premiere), failed to record practice, and would have would have missed qualifying too.
> 
> The whole point of the OnePass is to get it all. When I search, the only f1 stuff that even turns up is the race. I had to go to NBCSN, and scroll through the guide to find practice and qualifying and set new OnePasses. I have no confidence that these OnePasses will pick up practice or qualifying in two weeks when the race is in Singapore. Grrrrr......
> 
> Pat E


 Simple OnePasses (bound to 1 seriesId) won't work for many sports anymore. You have to setup an Auto Record Wishlist (ARWL) instead with Rovi data because Rovi splits up a single sport series into several different seriesIds. Look further up in this thread for "NFL Football" wishlist as an example.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

moyekj said:


> Simple OnePasses (bound to 1 seriesId) won't work for many sports anymore. You have to setup an Auto Record Wishlist (ARWL) instead with Rovi data because Rovi splits up a single sport series into several different seriesIds. Look further up in this thread for "NFL Football" wishlist as an example.


Rovi isn't doing it on purpose. They are just incompetent. No way should titles with the same name have different series ids. That is a bug that they need to fix. It is killing search with all these duplicate entries. And obviously breaking people's OnePasses. If TiVo wants to kill OnePasses for sports they need to make an announcement and disable the ability. Otherwise it will just be non stop support requests for eternity.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

moyekj said:


> Interesting. Does an ARWL with title keywords "NFL Football" set to record "New" only behave any differently?
> 
> EDIT: As per slowbiscuit, changing my ARWL to record "New" only still works for me. I think the addition of OAD for these NFL recordings is new as I'm fairly certain when I first setup the ARWL as "New" only there were no matches. Could be that Rovi incrementally adds more details such as OAD as air time gets closer?


That's what I'm seeing, OAD is being added later and it fixes the ARWL for the most part. But I did see that the 2nd Monday Night Football game is not being recorded with new only set.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

slowbiscuit said:


> But I did see that the 2nd Monday Night Football game is not being recorded with new only set.


 Yup, me too. It will probably fix itself once OAD is added to Rovi listings, just like what happened to our others.
EDIT: Just checked and if you are talking about the later Monday game on 9/12 then that one is set to record for me with "New" only (and has OAD).


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Sports... I'm still getting duplicates and I still have to have it set to New and Repeats. Nothing is fixed for me.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Yes, sports are still borked. I was told that there was nothing wrong with the data so don't expect a fix anytime soon. Air dates are still missing and many sports have multiple series ids. It seems this is just how it's going to be moving forward.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

So Last weekend when I went into a college football game listings and said "show upcoming" it showed me about 10 games (OTA only)

Now when I go into a listing the only options I have are record and explore. No season Pass. No upcoming. If I do a search for college football it gives some lame description like "highlights of college football games" and no episodes coming up

I dont have a 1P but I like using the "view episodes" so I can see exactly what channel the games are on and what time. Besides the Big 4 nets we have some on CW and their subs (Sinclair station....they own American Sports Net)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Might sound like a broken record here, but you HAVE TO GIVE UP ON 1Ps for sports.

Create ARWLs, at least for now unless/until Tivo gets Rovi to fix this crap data.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

First Aired Date is missing from the 9/17 College Football games broadcast OTA. I thought they had fixed it as the 9/10 games Do have the date. But No.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jth tv said:


> First Aired Date is missing from the 9/17 College Football games broadcast OTA. I thought they had fixed it as the 9/10 games Do have the date. But No.


It may show up later.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

jth tv said:


> First Aired Date is missing from the 9/17 College Football games broadcast OTA. I thought they had fixed it as the 9/10 games Do have the date. But No.


 As discussed above, the NFL games eventually got OAD added as the record dates got closer, so it seems like Rovi metadata gets incrementally additional data as record dates approach.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

moyekj said:


> As discussed above, the NFL games eventually got OAD added as the record dates got closer, so it seems like Rovi metadata gets incrementally additional data as record dates approach.


Gracenote data got more accurate as dates got closer as well. There is a lot going on right now. Some of this may get better after all the adjustments are done.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> Might sound like a broken record here, but you HAVE TO GIVE UP ON 1Ps for sports.
> 
> Create ARWLs, at least for now unless/until Tivo gets Rovi to fix this crap data.


But the ARWLs aren't working well, either.

I've seen programs incorrectly labeled as "new" in the guide, programs labeled correctly as "new" yet the Tivo doesn't record it, and programs correctly not labeled as new yet the TIvo records it as new.

For some sports they work well, for some you get no recordings at all, others have a few duplicate recordings, and for others you get tons of duplicate recordings. I have examples of all of those this weekend.

The U.S. Open (tennis) works well. I set it to record the tennis category with "Open" in the title and new only.

Manchester United has one unnecessary duplicate. One game is "Manchester United vs. Manchester City" and the duplicate is labeled "Manchester City vs. Manchester United", is on a different channel, and is labeled "new" even though it's a repeat. It's new for that channel, but I can't exclude that channel.

For Sunday Night, Monday Night, and NFL Football, I just set OnePasses for that. The ARWL was either picking up nothing or too many false hits no matter what I used for keywords. A few duplicates are still being recorded.

The ARWL for College football returned 150 items in the to do list. I'm not looking for a particular team, I just want to record whatever is on CBS, ABC and FOX on Saturday. It cannot be done. I'm just going to manually record the games I'm interested in, or watch them on my FIOS DVR which has no problems automatically doing what I want.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Correct, which is why you also have to set new and repeats for some of the ARWLs (not all, but some).

College football is indeed a nightmare, but I don't see how it was any better with TMS data because there are so many games on. The problem here is that you can't create dupe 1Ps for different channels and that issue has been around since they got rid of SPs. I watch CFB live during the day on Saturday since there are plenty of games to switch around on, everything else I just record manually if interested (night games, mostly).

Really aggravating that CFB games run so late now. I had a recording last night for Ole Miss/FSU and padded by an hour and it STILL wasn't enough time, game didn't end until after midnight. For some idiotic reason it was only 3 hours in the guide and no game is that short.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Correct, which is why you also have to set new and repeats for some of the ARWLs (not all, but some).
> 
> College football is indeed a nightmare, but I don't see how it was any better with TMS data because there are so many games on. The problem here is that you can't create dupe 1Ps for different channels and that issue has been around since they got rid of SPs.


Thankfully I only care about ND and Syracuse for College Football, because that scenario would send me screaming.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Easy to do an ARWL for that scenario.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> Correct, which is why you also have to set new and repeats for some of the ARWLs (not all, but some).


It still doesn't record correctly. MLB Baseball is setting random dates for the original air dates on reruns. So all are recorded or none are recorded. There is no way to record just the original live event.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> Easy to do an ARWL for that scenario.


Tell that to my Clemson ARWL that doesn't work correctly because of repeats.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Jeez man, just cancel the repeats. It's not that big a deal.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> Jeez man, just cancel the repeats. It's not that big a deal.


I have 25 in my ToDo list. It is a big deal. If I cancel 2 of the repeats per day, then it ends up recording a 3rd repeat that wasn't going to record (on days when a third repeat is shown).


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I have 25 in my ToDo list. It is a big deal. If I cancel 2 of the repeats per day, then it ends up recording a 3rd repeat that wasn't going to record (on days when a third repeat is shown).


Turn off autorecord, examine the list once a week and pick what you want to record.

I know it isn't what you want but you can either minimize the pain or just grumble through it.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Don't just ***** and moan about it here, report it to Tivo. Sports are getting fixed with valid OADs, at least some of them. I'm seeing good ones for NFL, NASCAR, Formula One, IndyCar etc. I expect it will get better but only if peeps keep pushing them.

I find it very hard to believe that you have 25 repeats of Clemson games btw, nobody cares about that team.

*ducking*


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> Easy to do an ARWL for that scenario.


Yup!


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> Don't just ***** and moan about it here, report it to Tivo. Sports are getting fixed with valid OADs, at least some of them. I'm seeing good ones for NFL, NASCAR, Formula One, IndyCar etc. I expect it will get better but only if peeps keep pushing them.
> 
> I find it very hard to believe that you have 25 repeats of Clemson games btw, nobody cares about that team.
> 
> *ducking*


No the 25 games is Atlanta Braves games. They repeat on 2 Fox RSNs in our area.

And I have reported issues with sports and the bad OADs. I was told it was not a bug.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> No the 25 games is Atlanta Braves games. They repeat on 2 Fox RSNs in our area.
> 
> And I have reported issues with sports and the bad OADs. I was told it was not a bug.


IOW, see figure 1.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

unclehonkey said:


> So Last weekend when I went into a college football game listings and said "show upcoming" it showed me about 10 games (OTA only)
> 
> Now when I go into a listing the only options I have are record and explore. No season Pass. No upcoming. If I do a search for college football it gives some lame description like "highlights of college football games" and no episodes coming up
> 
> I dont have a 1P but I like using the "view episodes" so I can see exactly what channel the games are on and what time. Besides the Big 4 nets we have some on CW and their subs (Sinclair station....they own American Sports Net)


It seemed to have fixed itself this morning. Shows the games on OTA for the next 2 weeks (well this Saturday and the 17th)

Also now with an Xfinity Race on 9/17 on NBC my 1P renamed itself again to "NASCAR Xfinity Series"....after Saturdays race it renamed itself to "NASCAR Camping World Truck Series"


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Turn off autorecord, examine the list once a week and pick what you want to record.


You can't, because the list is a mile long, and it doesn't give enough information unless you drill down into each item on the list. And even then, you're not really sure what's happening or if you've already selected that game 10 screens back.

When a show is listed as "new", yet a Onepass or Wishlist doesn't record it because *it* doesn't think it's new, that is a bug.

If a show is new yet is not shown as new in the guide data, that's a flaw in the guide data.

If a show is clearly a repeat on the same channel, yet it is still marked as "new", that's another flaw.

When you can't restrict a OnePass or Wishlist to certain channels, and you can't create more than one OnePass, that's a design flaw.

You combine the four issues together and you have a major problem.

I don't have to grumble through it. I can sell the Tivo and use my "crappy" cable company DVR which doesn't have these problems. As it is, the Bolt has been confined to the bonus room TV while my two tuner FIOS DVR remains the workhorse of the house, recording exactly what I want and nothing else. It'll stay there until the live/new/repeat bugs get fixed.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

BobCamp1 said:


> You can't, because the list is a mile long, and it doesn't give enough information unless you drill down into each item on the list. And even then, you're not really sure what's happening or if you've already selected that game 10 screens back.
> 
> When a show is listed as "new", yet a Onepass or Wishlist doesn't record it because *it* doesn't think it's new, that is a bug.
> 
> ...


 Well, if the problems persist (never get fixed) one possibility is to look into 3rd party tools for scheduling recordings rather than using TiVo 1Ps or ARWLs. The hooks for scheduling individual recordings via RPC are already available, so it's a question of building a scheduler around those hooks that attempts to work around the problems.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> You can't, because the list is a mile long, and it doesn't give enough information unless you drill down into each item on the list.


Really? He was talking about the Braves games. He doesn't know when they play?


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

You stated this PERFECTLY. And like you, my FiOS DVR's (that work very well at distinguishing New and Repeats) must stay since I can no longer trust TiVo.



BobCamp1 said:


> You can't, because the list is a mile long, and it doesn't give enough information unless you drill down into each item on the list. And even then, you're not really sure what's happening or if you've already selected that game 10 screens back.
> 
> When a show is listed as "new", yet a Onepass or Wishlist doesn't record it because *it* doesn't think it's new, that is a bug.
> 
> ...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

markjrenna said:


> You stated this PERFECTLY. And like you, my FiOS DVR's (that work very well at distinguishing New and Repeats) must stay since I can no longer trust TiVo.


Some of this is Tivo's fault. They have used a different algorithm for newness than anyone else does. It seems that rather than seeing something is actually marked "new" in the data, they use the OAD strictly.

My Fios DVR is actually smarter in that it uses the "new" tag and yet managed to find other showings when there were conflicts. For example, it didn't get confused on SNL reruns while Tivo always did (even before Rovi).

Yes, the Rovi data is lacking in a lot of ways but Tivo needs to rethink some of their base ideas as well.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

If a NEW Only 1P/SP was based on the "NEW" flag, then it wouldn't record a later showing if there was a conflict with the initial showing.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> If a NEW Only 1P/SP was based on the "NEW" flag, then it wouldn't record a later showing if there was a conflict with the initial showing.


Did I say "only?"

Somehow DirecTV does it. Fios does it. They both make use of the new marker.

Oh, I don't know. A table of programs that didn't record and find them later. It wouldn't be that many and the table already exists in your Tivo.

The point is: Tivo has to adjust. To expect the data to be exactly the same is pretty nonsensical. Groom it as much as possible but to recreate it all for some software algorithm is backward. Even if they are the same company.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Did I say "only?"
> 
> Somehow DirecTV does it. Fios does it. They both make use of the new marker.
> 
> ...


I see. So you're fine with TiVo having to allocate resources to re-write their scheduler (which has been working pretty well for 17+ years) to make up for deficiencies in the data? Or don't you consider a missing or incorrect OAD a deficiency?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> I see. So you're fine with TiVo having to allocate resources to re-write their scheduler (which has been working pretty well for 17+ years) to make up for deficiencies in the data? Or don't you consider a missing or incorrect OAD a deficiency?


I do but I also consider using a British air date to be a deficiency. If the New tag fixes that, how is it not better? (BTW, my fios system understood new in that context, Tivo did not.)

What I am saying is that OAD should NOT be the only way a system determines if the item is new. And should make use of data that exists rather than arrogantly assuming they have the world beat.

And, yes, i am fine with Tivo re-writing their scheduler because it is not perfect. Should I ask you if you think it is?


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Some of this is Tivo's fault. They have used a different algorithm for newness than anyone else does. It seems that rather than seeing something is actually marked "new" in the data, they use the OAD strictly.


WMC also uses this method.


TonyD79 said:


> My Fios DVR is actually smarter in that it uses the "new" tag and yet managed to find other showings when there were conflicts. For example, it didn't get confused on SNL reruns while Tivo always did (even before Rovi).
> ...


While this can be used, it can get tricky since the NEW flag is only attached to the first airing of an episode. Because of this you would need to keep a short-term history of NEW episodes because once that initial airing was no longer in the guide (the initial airing date has past) there would no longer be any indicator that the repeats of that episode should be considered NEW as well (within a certain time window after the initial airing).

I think using the OAD is the best option and would be fine if the source data was accurate, but using the NEW flag to augment the detection of new episodes might be a good idea when dealing with a data provider that can not seem to get the OAD correct. It would also work for foreign shows where the OAD represents the date of original airing in the foreign country. Of course the better solution for that is for the data provider to maintain a per-country OAD (which I understand Gracenote may have, not sure about Rovi).

FYI: If you use EPG123 with WMC, you can tell it to set the "OAD=airing date" for shows with the NEW flag.

Ideally, the data provider should just make sure the OAD is correct, then using the NEW flag would not be necessary. In fact, how difficult would it be for the data provider to just set "OAD=airing date" if the NEW flag was set?

Rovi has problems with setting OAD correctly. It is not a priority for them currently, but I think it may become one now that they have TiVo relying so heavily on it and I think getting them to make sure it is correct is the best option.

P.S. to Rovi: The LIVE finale results show for "America's Got Talent" airing on 9/14 should not have an OAD of 9/7/2016. You should at least have some sanity checking to prevent this problem, there is no way a LIVE show should have an OAD that differs from it's airing date.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Gracenote had similar problems with OAD. Don't kid yourself.

BTW, Tivo keeps the data already. Look at your History. It is all there. As well as the 28-day rule which keeps data on everything you want to record or did record.

This is not additional data. It is just a bit of additional logic that only die-hard Tivo supporters would not find useful.


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Gracenote had similar problems with OAD. Don't kid yourself.
> 
> BTW, Tivo keeps the data already. Look at your History. It is all there. As well as the 28-day rule which keeps data on everything you want to record or did record.
> 
> This is not additional data. It is just a bit of additional logic that only die-hard Tivo supporters would not find useful.


I have WMC and have used both Gracenote (several years) and Rovi (over a year) data, trust me when I say that the OAD problem is much worse with Rovi data than it ever was with Gracenote.
I am not talking about foreign shows, that is a problem with both providers equally.

I don't know much about TiVo (as a WMC user) but the 28 day rule would not necessarily need to keep any info about prior recordings, to determine if it should be considered "new" it would just check "airing_date - OAD <= 28" on any particular airing of a show that is in-scope to potentially be recorded, that is how WMC does it (except it uses 7 days instead of 28).


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Great discussion guys! 

I get the feeling more thought is happening here  than at TiVo. Too bad no one here, that cares as much, works for TiVo, so it could actually get fixed.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Sadly, it may be faster to get a scheduler re-write (I estimate 3-6 months at a minimum) than getting the data fixed.

OTOH, considering the problems with the transition code and the utter fiasco that was the "use a single tuner for overlapping recordings on the same channel" implementation, I _really_ don't want them mucking around with something that crucial.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Space said:


> I have WMC and have used both Gracenote (several years) and Rovi (over a year) data, trust me when I say that the OAD problem is much worse with Rovi data than it ever was with Gracenote.
> I am not talking about foreign shows, that is a problem with both providers equally.
> 
> I don't know much about TiVo (as a WMC user) but the 28 day rule would not necessarily need to keep any info about prior recordings, to determine if it should be considered "new" it would just check "airing_date - OAD <= 28" on any particular airing of a show that is in-scope to potentially be recorded, that is how WMC does it (except it uses 7 days instead of 28).


That's only half the logic. It then checks if it has been recorded. That means the data is stored to compare against. That is my point. The data is already there.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Something odd. It looks like live events going forward have the correct OAD but reruns of the same events do not. Like the upcoming Maryland game at FIU. the live one has the date. The rerun the next morning does not. 

Not quite helpful. The one that needs the date by TiVo logic is the rerun.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

TonyD79 said:


> Something odd. It looks like live events going forward have the correct OAD but reruns of the same events do not.


"Odd" isn't the adjective I'd use. "Half-assed" is. We complain about missing OAD and they only do it for the original broadcast, when it should be obvious to anybody of at least gerbil intelligence that all instances of a show, live or not, should have the same OAD. Indeed, since all instances should have the same Program ID/Episode pair, it seem like more work to attach an OAD to just one of them rather than all matching instances.


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> That's only half the logic. It then checks if it has been recorded. That means the data is stored to compare against. That is my point. The data is already there.


It's already there for shows it already recorded. Just because you haven't recorded an episode doesn't mean it is a new episode, it could be from a prior season before you started recording that show.

For shows where you want to record the new episodes only, it is possible that if it sees an episode marked as NEW and it is unable to record that episode, it could put an entry in the database indicating that it should record that episode when it is next aired, but I don't know that it does anything like this currently.

I think the biggest problem would be resolving conflicts between the OAD and the NEW flag... If they are not in agreement, which one should it believe? The NEW flag seems to be more reliable with Rovi data, but will that always be the case? Should it consider it new if either the OAD OR the NEW flag indicates it is new just to be safe?

I think ultimately the correct answer is to have good, accurate guide data. If you can get that, then anything else is unnecessary.


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

randian said:


> "Odd" isn't the adjective I'd use. "Half-assed" is. We complain about missing OAD and they only do it for the original broadcast, when it should be obvious to anybody of at least gerbil intelligence that all instances of a show, live or not, should have the same OAD. Indeed, since all instances should have the same Program ID/Episode pair, it seem like more work to attach an OAD to just one of them rather than all matching instances.


Yeah, first step is to make the game have OAD, second step is to make sure all repeats of the game are seen as the same programId/episodeId.

I suspect this second step to be harder to do, especially if the two airings are on different channels.

I don't think they have the same mechanisms in place for sports that works for episodic TV shows to group multiple airings of the same episode together and treat them as the same episode.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

TonyD79 said:


> Something odd. It looks like live events going forward have the correct OAD but reruns of the same events do not. Like the upcoming Maryland game at FIU. the live one has the date. The rerun the next morning does not.
> 
> Not quite helpful. The one that needs the date by TiVo logic is the rerun.


Other way around for PGA Tour Golf; no OAD for original/live airing, OAD for repeat later in the day, although it's the wrong day. This would somewhat okay if they also didn't have different seriesIDs.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Just one example of the Cluster F. that Rovi is. 

The game was played on 9/6. Guide data:

"Toronto at New York Yankees. *
Baseball, Sport, Sports Event. TV-PG. First aired: 9/5/16"

Every Yankees game on YES is recorded with New Only or New and Repeats.

This needs to get fixed ASAP.

They are on their way to losing yet another retail customer. And get this. I don't think they give a flying F! Shame.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Of course TiVo cares. And the data is changing almost daily.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Something odd. It looks like live events going forward have the correct OAD but reruns of the same events do not. Like the upcoming Maryland game at FIU. the live one has the date. The rerun the next morning does not.
> 
> Not quite helpful. The one that needs the date by TiVo logic is the rerun.


This was changed about a week ago. This is why MLB Baseball can't be recorded correctly. So now, you don't have to set it to "New & Repeats" but it still doesn't work because repeats don't point back to the original airing. So they all get recorded since TiVo thinks they were never recorded and are within the 28 day recording rule.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Space said:


> Yeah, first step is to make the game have OAD, second step is to make sure all repeats of the game are seen as the same programId/episodeId.
> 
> I suspect this second step to be harder to do, especially if the two airings are on different channels.


It must not be too hard as Gracenote didn't have this issue.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Of course TiVo cares. And the data is changing almost daily.


Not for sports though. Apparently, this has been an issue for a long time with Rovi and sports. It isn't clear if there are any intentions to fix this.


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## sangs (Jan 1, 2003)

At this point, I've just set up a One Pass for MLB Baseball (since that's how it's listed) on SNY for Mets games and am manually going through the "Upcoming List" to select the correct Mets and Tigers games to record. Not much regular season left anyway. Hopefully it's fixed by April.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Not for sports though. Apparently, this has been an issue for a long time with Rovi and sports. It isn't clear if there are any intentions to fix this.


Well. At first there was no OAD at all now there is for the live event. I'd say that is an intention to fix.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Space said:


> Yeah, first step is to make the game have OAD, second step is to make sure all repeats of the game are seen as the same programId/episodeId.
> 
> I suspect this second step to be harder to do, especially if the two airings are on different channels.


That's why Season Passes worked great. Or the ability to limit Wishlist recordings to specific channels. That way you can exclude the channels that only show the repeats.

FIOS has the first one, DirecTV has BOTH.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Last night I noticed that the Orioles replay on MASN had the OAD in it. I then checked a few more games on MASN and found more. So I set up a 1P for MLB on MASN and it worked correctly. New put new games in the to do list and said it wasn't doing "reruns." New and repeat did the same because of the 28 day rule. Everything did it all. 

Progress. I guess.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

Zero progress here...

Original airing is 7 pm. re-airing 11:30 pm. 

New Only or New and Repeats. No difference.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> Other way around for PGA Tour Golf; no OAD for original/live airing, OAD for repeat later in the day, although it's the wrong day. This would somewhat okay if they also didn't have different seriesIDs.


Yep, the golf broadcasts I've seen so far are completely broken.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

rainwater said:


> This is why MLB Baseball can't be recorded correctly.


And the reason MLB Baseball can't be identified correctly is because MLB Baseball games more than five-eight days into the future aren't MLB baseball games but instead generic College Football games or generic Bundesliga Soccer games or generic studio shows.

Meanwhile the Gracenote data at Zap2It is 13 days of flawlessness as usual.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

markjrenna said:


> Zero progress here...
> 
> Original airing is 7 pm. re-airing 11:30 pm.
> 
> New Only or New and Repeats. No difference.


Same here with all the [email protected] games through Sunday. Difference from Tony, tho, is all the repeats have an OAD one day earlier than the live event.

I'm going to report this, FWIW.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

TonyD79 said:


> Well. At first there was no OAD at all now there is for the live event. I'd say that is an intention to fix.


And now there is No First Aired Date for College Football on 9/17. Whatever progress there was has vanished.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

jth tv said:


> And now there is No First Aired Date for College Football on 9/17. Whatever progress there was has vanished.


I have dates for 9/17.


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## Space (Jan 13, 2002)

When Rovi/Microsoft were working on issues after the WMC migration, it was common to see some progress, only to have it revert back to the old behavior a week or two later, so this is not something I am surprised by.

One of these things would be episode specific info on individual episodes of shows on a particular channel. There would be no ESI at all on a channel, then they would fix it and shows towards the end of the guide would start getting ESI, then a week or two later, the shows stopped getting ESI, it would stay that way for a couple weeks, and then get fixed again, etc. I think this happened two or three times with one channel. The channel currently has ESI for most shows (still one show missing it), so I guess they eventually got it working for the most part.

I am starting to see this issue on some channels that were recently "fixed", they have ESI up until next week, then they are missing it again. It remains to be seen if that info will be filled in before the episodes start airing, but I do have a bit of déjà vu.


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

TonyD79 said:


> I have dates for 9/17.


Well, not here. Roamio Basic using Antenna in Los Angeles.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

jth tv said:


> And now there is No First Aired Date for College Football on 9/17. Whatever progress there was has vanished.


Right now, I've got "College Football" games out to 9/18, but OADs only out to 9/10. A one-pass is only selecting games with OADs.

I'm gonna try to force a guide update, to see if anything changes.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

Space said:


> When Rovi/Microsoft were working on issues after the WMC migration, it was common to see some progress, only to have it revert back to the old behavior a week or two later, so this is not something I am surprised by.
> 
> One of these things would be episode specific info on individual episodes of shows on a particular channel. There would be no ESI at all on a channel, then they would fix it and shows towards the end of the guide would start getting ESI, then a week or two later, the shows stopped getting ESI, it would stay that way for a couple weeks, and then get fixed again, etc. I think this happened two or three times with one channel. The channel currently has ESI for most shows (still one show missing it), so I guess they eventually got it working for the most part.
> 
> I am starting to see this issue on some channels that were recently "fixed", they have ESI up until next week, then they are missing it again. It remains to be seen if that info will be filled in before the episodes start airing, but I do have a bit of déjà vu.


IMHO, I think the problems at Rovi are most likely structural. Their basic mechanism for creating the program data is flawed. They can fix some individual items as they are made aware but the next batch will have the same problems.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

Noticed that this coming Sunday's FOX games have the times all jacked up

When there is a DH the games are at noon and 3:25 Central. FOX has the DH this week
So the Vikes game shows noon-3 and Dallas/NYG at 3PM with "The OT" from 6-7
Series 3 (on Gracenote) shows noon-3:25, 3:25-6:30, 6:30-7

Now I know someone will say "so what?" well I record the NFL games (especially the Vikes). Normally the 2 games on FOX would take 1 tuner (I usually dont extend the early game...its done by 3:25) but now I have to extend both games and from 3-3:25 it will tie up two tuners.

The CBS DH on the 18th is right. SHows noon-3:25 and 3:25-6:30. Meanwhile the FOX game shows noon-4pm (???)


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

unclehonkey said:


> Noticed that this coming Sunday's FOX games have the times all jacked up
> 
> When there is a DH the games are at noon and 3:25 Central. FOX has the DH this week
> So the Vikes game shows noon-3 and Dallas/NYG at 3PM with "The OT" from 6-7
> ...


Yes, it is crazy. Every Sunday has had the same basic NFL schedule for many years with every NFL game scheduled for 3 hours. I'm not sure how Rovi can screw this up but they have. I add an hour to all my ARWLs for NFL games but now games are random lengths so it messes my recordings up. I feel bad for anyone with a 2 tuner TiVo.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Steve said:


> Right now, I've got "College Football" games out to 9/18, but OADs only out to 9/10. A one-pass is only selecting games with OADs.
> 
> I'm gonna try to force a guide update, to see if anything changes.


Over 3 hours since I forced a Bolt guide update. It took a while to load, so must have been a significant amount of data. Still only seeing "College Football" OADs out to 9/10. Nothing after.


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## SteveD (Oct 22, 2002)

Noticed today that my onepass for Inside the NFL on Showtime didn't record this week and wasn't scheduled for next week either. I had to change the recording options from New only to New & repeats in order for the recordings to be scheduled. So I guess it's not just live sports that's effected.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

**** Red said:


> Noticed today that my onepass for Inside the NFL on Showtime didn't record this week and wasn't scheduled for next week either. I had to change the recording options from New only to New & repeats in order for the recordings to be scheduled. So I guess it's not just live sports that's effected.


I have a local talk show whose OAD is always 1/3/06. I think that's the very first episode's OAD from over 10 years ago. Anyway, all their shows are live but there's no "New" tag on them and Tivo won't record anything unless I set it to "new and repeats."

My FIOS DVR, which uses Gracenote, has no problems with this show. It identifies it as new and records it appropriately. My Series 1 also had no problems with this show.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I still would like a sports center in TiVo that would allow you to select favorite sport teams and track / record them.

I did a recommendation to TiVo a couple of years ago, but never heard anything.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

bradleys said:


> I still would like a sports center in TiVo that would allow you to select favorite sport teams and track / record them.
> 
> I did a recommendation to TiVo a couple of years ago, but never heard anything.


They have had collections in the past that would record your favorite team. However, I doubt that would even be possible with the current data given there is no standard data.

I also wish they would do like other providers and instead of saying "College Football" in the guide, it would actually show who is playing (ex. "Notre Dame at Boston College"). To me, this is much more helpful than seeing 10 "College Football" listings in the guide.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

The Giants and Diamondbacks are playing a surprise afternoon baseball game in Arizona right now on MLB Network! No wait, that's just the Rovi guide. The actual game doesn't start for another seven and a half hours.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I also wish they would do like other providers and instead of saying "College Football" in the guide, it would actually show who is playing (ex. "Notre Dame at Boston College"). To me, this is much more helpful than seeing 10 "College Football" listings in the guide.


In this case at least, Rovi does it the same as Gracenote for the "TiVo Live Guide" anyway. Don't know about the Grid Guide. Never use it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> In this case at least, Rovi does it the same as Gracenote for the "TiVo Live Guide" anyway. Don't know about the Grid Guide. Never use it.


Yes. I'm not talking about the data. I'm talking about how many other providers shows sports in the guide so you can tell what teams are playing without having to scroll over every item.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I don't consider an entry that just has "x at y" to be acceptable. In what sport are they competing?


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## Scott J (Oct 5, 2010)

lpwcomp said:


> I don't consider an entry that just has "x at y" to be acceptable. In what sport are they competing?


Dish puts the league abbreviation in front of the teams. For example: MLB: Yankees at Red Sox or CFB: LSU at Alabama (for college football)


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> I don't consider an entry that just has "x at y" to be acceptable. In what sport are they competing?


NFL, College Football, NBA, MLB, Soccer, etc. Any modern guide these days will include the teams in the guide so you don't have to scroll to it to see who is playing. TiVo could do it easily. It wouldn't require changing guide data.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> NFL, College Football, NBA, MLB, Soccer, etc. Any modern guide these days will include the teams in the guide so you don't have to scroll to it to see who is playing. TiVo could do it easily. It wouldn't require changing guide data.


It would require a big change to the guide though. Were do you put the extra data? Particularly on the Live Guide?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> It would require a big change to the guide though. Were do you put the extra data? Particularly on the Live Guide?


Instead of College Football it says CFB: Arizona St at California.

It is just text. They can handle "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World"


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> It would require a big change to the guide though. Were do you put the extra data? Particularly on the Live Guide?


What extra data? Just put the episode title which is "x at y" in the guide. Append the sport to the front. No extra data is needed as TiVo already knows it's a live sporting event. It would just require a software change to update the display logic.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> It would require a big change to the guide though. Were do you put the extra data? Particularly on the Live Guide?


That data exists and is available from several partners. There is no reason why TiVo couldn't do something similar to what the NFL.com does for football...

Think about a simple grid like this for whatever sport you are interested in.

http://www.nfl.com/schedules


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

I didn't say the data didn't exist or that the TiVo didn't have it._*There simply isn't room for it in the current guide display.*_.

Bradly wants a completely different display. What has that got to do with the matter at hand? You can "Explore" "College Football" and a list of upcoming episodes has the episode titles, which are "x at y".


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> I didn't say the data didn't exist or that the TiVo didn't have it._*There simply isn't room for it in the current guide display.*_.


If "NFL: Panthers at Broncos" is too long then I'm confused since there are enormous amounts of titles in the guide much longer. These programs are all multiple hours long so there is no issue for the grid guide.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> I didn't say the data didn't exist or that the TiVo didn't have it._*There simply isn't room for it in the current guide display.*_.
> 
> Bradly wants a completely different display. What has that got to do with the matter at hand? You can "Explore" "College Football" and a list of upcoming episodes has the episode titles, which are "x at y".


That is true, I just think sports is such a huge market TiVo could do something really unique. For years I have seen threads like this struggling get wish lists to be consistent and I think sports is such a big market the "collection" tools should be extended in a cool and unique way.

But you are right, it has nothing to do with the conversation.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> If "NFL: Panthers at Broncos" is too long then I'm confused since there are enormous amounts of titles in the guide much longer. These programs are all multiple hours long so there is no issue for the grid guide.


So you want them to change the title from "NFL Football" to "NFL" _*and*_ add the team names. Both require that they special case sporting events.

You presumably want it for all sporting events. So how about College Football? Team names wont work plus how would you shorten it? So you end up with
"College Football: Bethune-Cookman at Middle Tennessee State".


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

lpwcomp said:


> So you want them to change the title from "NFL Football" to "NFL" _*and*_ add the team names. Both require that they special case sporting events.
> 
> You presumably want it for all sporting events. So how about College Football? Team names wont work plus how would you shorten it? So you end up with
> "College Football: Bethune-Cookman at Middle Tennessee State".


Yes. I want it for all major sports. DirecTV manages to make it work just fine. Btw, CFB = College Football. NBA = NBA Basketball. These aren't even revolutionary features. Other guides have been doing this for years.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

rainwater said:


> Yes. I want it for all major sports. DirecTV manages to make it work just fine. Btw, CFB = College Football. NBA = NBA Basketball. These aren't even revolutionary features. Other guides have been doing this for years.


Does DirecTV have an equivalent to the TiVo Live Guide?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

If you are recording any College Football games today, you might want to check their duration. Some are listed at 2 hours and 30 minutes. You might need to add a hour and a half to the recording. I'm not sure how Rovi can get College Football wrong since they all are scheduled for 3 hours.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

rainwater said:


> If you are recording any College Football games today, you might want to check their duration. Some are listed at 2 hours and 30 minutes. You might need to add a hour and a half to the recording. I'm not sure how Rovi can get College Football wrong since they all are scheduled for 3 hours.


most are 3 1/2. Now I am OTA only but for the afternoon games
ABC at 11AM...3 hours
CBS at 2:30PM..3 1/2
ABC at 2:30PM..3
NBC at 2:30PM..3 1/2
CW at 2:30PM 3 1/2 (game from American Sports Net)

night games on FOX & ABC show 3 1/2 hours


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

I see that Rovi still has the NFL on FOX games jacked for tomorrow

They show the Vikes from noon-3 and the late game from 3-6. The second game of the DH ALWAYS starts at 3:25 (Gracenote has it right on my Series 3)

Also on Wednesday Minneapolis got switched from Dallas game to Detroit/Indy for late game. Gracenote has it right. Rovi **sigh** does not (even though I have force connect a few times since then)


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

rainwater said:


> If you are recording any College Football games today, you might want to check their duration. Some are listed at 2 hours and 30 minutes. You might need to add a hour and a half to the recording. I'm not sure how Rovi can get College Football wrong since they all are scheduled for 3 hours.


One of the big beefs I have with the data, but to be fair 3 hour durations is never enough for CFB.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> One of the big beefs I have with the data, but to be fair 3 hour durations is never enough for CFB.


I generally pad football games by 1.5 hours. If it's scheduled for 3 hours, that's a total of 4.5, which is usually plenty. 2.5 +1.5 is 4, which is right on the edge.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Grrr... can no longer find Monday/Thursday night NFL games by searching for NFL and/or NFL Football. Must search for Monday or Thursday.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> One of the big beefs I have with the data, but to be fair 3 hour durations is never enough for CFB.


Yeah. But my wishlists rely on them being at least 3 hours. If Rovi is going to do random lengths, it's hard to have OnePasses or ARWLs. NFL on Sunday afternoon is just a joke. The schedule has been the same for 20 years byt Rovi still doesn't know it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

And of course Rovi got 2 of the College Football games totally wrong in my lineup. It is like they don't realize that we get local games. Gracenote got it right.


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## mikep554 (Sep 11, 2016)

I'm having similar issues with Formula 1 races that I believe are caused by missing original air date information. I can create a OnePass or wishlist, but either one will only record the race on Sunday, not practice or qualifying. However, if I change the OnePass or wishlist to record both new and repeats, it will record practice and qualifying.

Also, the original air dates for many Seattle Sounders games are incorrect, especially repeats. There is a game being played and shown live on 9-18-16. Repeats airing on 9-19-16 have original air dates of 9-16-16. Frustrating.


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## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

rahnbo said:


> Grrr... can no longer find Monday/Thursday night NFL games by searching for NFL and/or NFL Football. Must search for Monday or Thursday.


My wishlist search uses (NFL Football) or (Night Football) and that's finding all the Thursday, Sunday and Monday night games, too. Still not sure the New flag is right, so I have it set to record new and repeats, then keep double-checking the To-Do list or Upcoming matches to make sure it's recording only the ones I want. Not ideal, hopefully just a short-term workaround... hopefully.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

beryrinaldo said:


> My wishlist search uses (NFL Football) or (Night Football) and that's finding all the Thursday, Sunday and Monday night games, too. Still not sure the New flag is right, so I have it set to record new and repeats, then keep double-checking the To-Do list or Upcoming matches to make sure it's recording only the ones I want. Not ideal, hopefully just a short-term workaround... hopefully.


Thanks, I tried "night football" and yes that shows those games...under 3 different categories Sunday/Monday/Thursday and excludes the Sunday day games. I didn't realize until after your post that my old search now excludes Sunday night too. Previously I could just search for "NFL," pick any game > view upcoming and see a list of all NFL games upcoming. From there I'd pick what games I wanted to record, set padding appropriately, etc... a process that has worked well for me for 10+ years. Tivo Online will not let me do it either as if I search for "NFL" I then have to pick from one of the 4 categories...can't get a single list of the games in one place.

So all I am hopeful for is one list of all upcoming NFL games.


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## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

rahnbo said:


> Thanks, I tried "night football" and yes that shows those games...under 3 different categories Sunday/Monday/Thursday and excludes the Sunday day games. I didn't realize until after your post that my old search now excludes Sunday night too. Previously I could just search for "NFL," pick any game > view upcoming and see a list of all NFL games upcoming. From there I'd pick what games I wanted to record, set padding appropriately, etc... a process that has worked well for me for 10+ years. Tivo Online will not let me do it either as if I search for "NFL" I then have to pick from one of the 4 categories...can't get a single list of the games in one place.
> 
> So all I am hopeful for is one list of all upcoming NFL games.


At least for now, searching won't do that because of the guide data change. If you create a wishlist with those search terms --I have mine set with Title keyword: (NFL Football) or (Night Football) and Category Sports: Sports Event -- then you can see them all in one list in Upcoming matches for that wishlist. Granted, this is not the same as a search for NFL, but it does provide a way to see them all in one list given the current state of the guide data. If you're creating a new wishlist and you don't want it to auto-record (sounds to me like you don't -- you want to choose games to record yourself), you'll need to disable that by choosing "Don't auto-record shows" because auto-record is the default.


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## Mr Tony (Dec 20, 2012)

unclehonkey said:


> I see that Rovi still has the NFL on FOX games jacked for tomorrow
> 
> They show the Vikes from noon-3 and the late game from 3-6. The second game of the DH ALWAYS starts at 3:25 (Gracenote has it right on my Series 3)
> 
> Also on Wednesday Minneapolis got switched from Dallas game to Detroit/Indy for late game. Gracenote has it right. Rovi **sigh** does not (even though I have force connect a few times since then)


and after three connections (2 forced and the overnight one) in the last 24 hours it STILL isnt fixed.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

beryrinaldo said:


> My wishlist search uses (NFL Football) or (Night Football) and that's finding all the Thursday, Sunday and Monday night games, too. Still not sure the New flag is right, so I have it set to record new and repeats, then keep double-checking the To-Do list or Upcoming matches to make sure it's recording only the ones I want. Not ideal, hopefully just a short-term workaround... hopefully.


That ARWL with addition of Sports: Sports Event category and New only flag is finding and recording everything. So far.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> That ARWL with addition of Sports: Sports Event category and New only flag is finding and recording everything. So far.


True, thanks beryrinaldo. The only thing I can find missing in that view is this coming up Thursday night's game (9/15) although it has the following week (9/22). In the guide they both list with the title "Thursday Night Football."


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## senorgregster (Nov 12, 2005)

For many soccer recordings I'm having to manually delete loads of reairs because of the lack of tagging. This really is infuriating.


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## SOUTHDAYTONA DON (Sep 7, 2016)

My Zap2It has LIVE tags as well as NEW tags. Are they capable of or have access to the LIVE tag to clear up the Sports Scheduling problems? My wish list for Red Sox baseball generated every NEW baseball game shown last night, no matter what team was playing. Previous iterations gave me every show that had RED SOX in the title. It worked perfectly well before the fiasco started.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

Looks like no improvements have been made to sports at all. I still see a bunch of sports with multiple series ids and TiVo still doesn't know if a live airing is new or not.

I can't wait until Monday. My TiVo is recording 16 hours of repeats in one day! Yay! What sucks is I set my ARWLs to keep a certain amount of games and this issue with repeats kills it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

SOUTHDAYTONA DON said:


> My Zap2It has LIVE tags as well as NEW tags. Are they capable of or have access to the LIVE tag to clear up the Sports Scheduling problems?


TiVo does know if it is live. But in TiVos world, just because it is not live doesn't mean it is not new. It is "new" if the program hasn't been recorded in the last 28 days. So in case of conflicts, you would want it to record a repeat as "new". The problem is many of the sports are missing original air dates and even if they have them, the repeats are not linked to each other correctly anyways (so they appear as separate events).


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

How do you create the parenthesis in the wishlist? Do you have to do the parenthesis and the " or "?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jamesteixeira said:


> How do you create the parenthesis in the wishlist? Do you have to do the parenthesis and the " or "?


Thumbs up.


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

Pressing the Thumbs Up did not insert a parenthesis in the wishlist title string. It also did not toggle the symbols to show a parenthesis that I could click on. All it seemed to was toggle letters to uppercase and Thumbs Down toggled them back down to lowercase.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

jamesteixeira said:


> Pressing the Thumbs Up did not insert a parenthesis in the wishlist title string. It also did not toggle the symbols to show a parenthesis that I could click on. All it seemed to was toggle letters to uppercase and Thumbs Down toggled them back down to lowercase.


Can you use Tivo.com or a mobile/tablet Tivo app to do it?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jamesteixeira said:


> Pressing the Thumbs Up did not insert a parenthesis in the wishlist title string. It also did not toggle the symbols to show a parenthesis that I could click on. All it seemed to was toggle letters to uppercase and Thumbs Down toggled them back down to lowercase.


You have to highlight the string on the right side of the screen to change state.


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## minimeh (Jun 20, 2011)

jamesteixeira said:


> Pressing the Thumbs Up did not insert a parenthesis in the wishlist title string. It also did not toggle the symbols to show a parenthesis that I could click on. All it seemed to was toggle letters to uppercase and Thumbs Down toggled them back down to lowercase.


I am writing this from memory, but go to the screen where you enter title keywords for a wishlist. Then navigate to the right side (where you can select enter another word, cancel, etc.). Navigate down to the keyword that you want to "or". The press thumbs up.

Edit: As rainwater was writing simultaneously.


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

So you don't actually have to put an "or" anywhere. It understands by the parenthesis that it is an "or"?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

jamesteixeira said:


> So you don't actually have to put an "or" anywhere. It understands by the parenthesis that it is an "or"?


Thumbs up is "or" and thumbs down is an exclusion. They are indicated in the view by parenthesis and "-" respectively. You never input these characters.


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## jamesteixeira (Nov 22, 2014)

Thanks, it seems to be working.


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## malexand (Jan 10, 2009)

The formula 1 scheduling issue seems to have been resolved for the upcoming Malaysian Grand Prix weekend, practice, qualifying and race are all in the to do list now. Hope it stays fixed.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

NASCAR was fine for me before Rovi. Made some changes after Rovi... NASCAR was fine. 

:down:Yesterday noticed the race wasn't recording. Had to make more changes to my Wishlist.

I cannot trust my TiVo any longer. Sad. :down:


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

markjrenna said:


> NASCAR was fine for me before Rovi. Made some changes after Rovi... NASCAR was fine.
> 
> :down:Yesterday noticed the race wasn't recording. Had to make more changes to my Wishlist.
> 
> I cannot trust my TiVo any longer. Sad. :down:


NASCAR is completely messed up since the Rovi switchover. Last I checked, NASCAR Sprint Cup now has at least 6 different listings found under search. Times are often wrong as well. At this point using a TiVo for sports is pretty much unreliable.


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## Kash76 (Jul 29, 2001)

This config world for me with NASCAR









Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

I bet with that, you're not picking up Dover this Sunday.



Kash76 said:


> This config world for me with NASCAR
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Kash76 (Jul 29, 2001)

You are correct










Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Absolutely unacceptable. Tivo, are you listening? You are letting Rovi BREAK the basic functionality of ARWLs with this stupid random renaming of sports events. It was ok for Rovi to name them NASCAR (series) Racing instead of TMS calling them NASCAR Racing because we could create ARWLs for that. It is completely unacceptable to let Rovi rename the Sprint Cup races to just 'NASCAR' on a random basis and then break those ARWLs.

Fix this crap.


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## LI-SVT (Sep 28, 2006)

I am curious,
Wont this record ALL NASCAR events? I am only interested in recording Sprint Cup. I would expect yours to record Xfinity and the truck series.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep, that's the problem.


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