# So has the Tivo Stream Software Improved in the Last Few Months?



## omelet1978

I returned the Tivo Stream a few months ago disappointed in the software but thinking that after a few updates it would be good.

The major issues I had was random re-starts, the tv turning on by itself, and My Shows not really having any sort of reason for displaying the shows that it had recorded. Any of these issues been fixed? If so I'd like to come back.

I did a brief review of this forum before asking and it does not appear so but just thought I'd post anyway.

Thanks!


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## Jamesc713

I have only been using TS4K for a short time, but random restarts could be other issues. Have you done the normal troubleshooting, like restarting router, then the TV, and the TiVo device? 

Sounds to me like it power supply related, try switching the cords. Maybe software or hardware incompatibilities, try unplugging additional items like USB stuff, disable/uninstall apps that are not required. 

Take everything down to bare bones, even do a hard reset if needed. Basically we want to get to a working machine, if we can get to that point then we can add devices and applications back until we find the offending party.


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## rczrider

omelet1978 said:


> I returned the Tivo Stream a few months ago disappointed in the software but thinking that after a few updates it would be good.
> 
> The major issues I had was random re-starts, the tv turning on by itself, and My Shows not really having any sort of reason for displaying the shows that it had recorded. Any of these issues been fixed? If so I'd like to come back.
> 
> I did a brief review of this forum before asking and it does not appear so but just thought I'd post anyway.
> 
> Thanks!


I was in the same boat - bought the first day or two of release, was disappointed, returned 30 days later - and just now bought another one last week from Amazon when it was still $49.99. Figured if it still sucks, dealing with Amazon is way better than dealing with TiVo directly.

I'm not impressed. HDR is still mandatory (though other users will tell you that if you don't like it it's because you didn't spend $2k on a TV and that's the real problem), and the black flashes while using Kodi and Plex are still present.

But my device hasn't gotten the "big" update that TiVo is rolling out right now, either. And, if I'm being totally fair, I haven't had any freezes / lock-ups that plagued my first unit.

I'm fully prepared to return this one, too, but I'm giving this update a shot, and also giving TiVo a chance to fix the PIN requirement on developer options that they accidentally put in this update. If they can't fix that before my return window closes with Amazon, I'm returning it, leaving another bad review, and holding out for the Google Sabrina device. If that's the route I go, I'll consider an extra $20-30 to be the cost of stability and a competent software team.


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## dbpaddler

rczrider said:


> I was in the same boat - bought the first day or two of release, was disappointed, returned 30 days later - and just now bought another one last week from Amazon when it was still $49.99. Figured if it still sucks, dealing with Amazon is way better than dealing with TiVo directly.
> 
> I'm not impressed. HDR is still mandatory (though other users will tell you that if you don't like it it's because you didn't spend $2k on a TV and that's the real problem), and the black flashes while using Kodi and Plex are still present.
> 
> But my device hasn't gotten the "big" update that TiVo is rolling out right now, either. And, if I'm being totally fair, I haven't had any freezes / lock-ups that plagued my first unit.
> 
> I'm fully prepared to return this one, too, but I'm giving this update a shot, and also giving TiVo a chance to fix the PIN requirement on developer options that they accidentally put in this update. If they can't fix that before my return window closes with Amazon, I'm returning it, leaving another bad review, and holding out for the Google Sabrina device. If that's the route I go, I'll consider an extra $20-30 to be the cost of stability and a competent software team.


Ha... Competent developer team? Do you even use other Google products? They've broken so many things with updates over the past few years with regards to Google home, groups and such. And even better, they discontinue good products to push crap people don't want. They aren't really much better than tivo, and they do the same thing tivo does, mine your data for $$$.

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## rczrider

dbpaddler said:


> Ha... Competent developer team? Do you even use other Google products? They've broken so many things with updates over the past few years with regards to Google home, groups and such. And even better, they discontinue good products to push crap people don't want. They aren't really much better than tivo, and they do the same thing tivo does, mine your data for $$$.


The Google ecosystem is the only I'm invested in. Not heavily, but it's the only ecosystem I have experience with.

So between my Pixel 3, 6x Home/Nest Minis, 2x full-sized Home/Nest units, and Nest thermostat...I've had zero problems. Admittedly, I only have moderate integration with all of these, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to hate about Google's development so far. Can you give me an idea of what sort of problems I'm supposed to have had so far? Because right now, my experience is that TiVo has screwed up time after time and my pure Google products have been totally fine.

An in any case, you just said "aren't really that much better" which implies that they are, in fact, better. Of course they mine our data; only an idiot thinks cheap hardware and free software come without some sort of trade-off. I'm simply pointing out that what I get out of Google for my data is worth it, while TiVo (so far) is not.


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## Johnny Dancing

rczrider said:


> The Google ecosystem is the only I'm invested in. Not heavily, but it's the only ecosystem I have experience with.
> 
> So between my Pixel 3, 6x Home/Nest Minis, 2x full-sized Home/Nest units, and Nest thermostat...I've had zero problems. Admittedly, I only have moderate integration with all of these, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to hate about Google's development so far. Can you give me an idea of what sort of problems I'm supposed to have had so far? Because right now, my experience is that TiVo has screwed up time after time and my pure Google products have been totally fine.
> 
> An in any case, you just said "aren't really that much better" which implies that they are, in fact, better. Of course they mine our data; only an idiot thinks cheap hardware and free software come without some sort of trade-off. I'm simply pointing out that what I get out of Google for my data is worth it, while TiVo (so far) is not.


I think what bugs people about google products is that they create them then discontinue them and send them to the Google graveyard. Some of these services were very good and had lots of happy users that get burned. The latest to effect me is Google Play Music being discontinued and moving everyone to Youtube music which is currently not a very good streaming service.

Google graveyard Killed by Google


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## dbpaddler

rczrider said:


> The Google ecosystem is the only I'm invested in. Not heavily, but it's the only ecosystem I have experience with.
> 
> So between my Pixel 3, 6x Home/Nest Minis, 2x full-sized Home/Nest units, and Nest thermostat...I've had zero problems. Admittedly, I only have moderate integration with all of these, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to hate about Google's development so far. Can you give me an idea of what sort of problems I'm supposed to have had so far? Because right now, my experience is that TiVo has screwed up time after time and my pure Google products have been totally fine.
> 
> An in any case, you just said "aren't really that much better" which implies that they are, in fact, better. Of course they mine our data; only an idiot thinks cheap hardware and free software come without some sort of trade-off. I'm simply pointing out that what I get out of Google for my data is worth it, while TiVo (so far) is not.


You're not even a current tivo owner. You even returned your TS4k, a brand spanking new product. Yet you continue to linger, post, bash and complain.

Again, shocking, a newly launched product has bugs and issues. Google's products were mature, and groups constantly break, disappear and what not. Go on their support forums and there is a laundry list of issues. And as I posted before, Roku had major issues last year with an update that made their devices completely unusable. Mature products that took a long while to fix.

For someone that was never vested in the ecosystem and not currently in it with any product, you're by far the most vocal. Especially peculiar because it doesn't sound like you've been an early adopter of anything or have beta tested anything tech related because you have no tolerance for a newly launched product with bugs. "Newly launched" and "bugs" tend to go hand in hand.

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## dbpaddler

Johnny Dancing said:


> I think what bugs people about google products is that they create them then discontinue them and send them to the Google graveyard. Some of these services were very good and had lots of happy users that get burned. The latest to effect me is Google Play Music being discontinued and moving everyone to Youtube music which is currently not a very good streaming service.
> 
> Google graveyard Killed by Google


That's why I stocked up on chromecast audios. Still have five or six left I'm reserving for future use.

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## Johnny Dancing

dbpaddler said:


> That's why I stocked up on chromecast audios. Still have five or six left I'm reserving for future use.


I wish I heard they were discontinuing before it was too late. I would have bought at least 10 of them at $25 or $35 each, now they sell on eBay new for $100+. It might even be worth picking up a few used ones at around $70 each as backups or for future use.


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## dbpaddler

Johnny Dancing said:


> I wish I heard they were discontinuing before it was too late. I would have bought at least 10 of them at $25 or $35 each, now they sell on eBay new for $100+. It might even be worth picking up a few used ones at around $70 each as backups or for future use.


I cleared out a couple Targets for about $18. It's probably cheaper now to buy a regular chromecast and a hdmi audio extractor.

It still boggles my mind why they discontinued it. Like if it was a push to get me to buy your crap speakers, it pretty much backfired. Not sure why anyone would want those pimples littered around your house when you can have much nicer sound setups attach to a CCA. I have a 50's stereo console gutted and updated with one attached as well as two other setups with my amp/speaker setups for my tv's. All of which trounce even their max speaker on their worst day.

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## Johnny Dancing

dbpaddler said:


> I cleared out a couple Targets for about $18. It's probably cheaper now to buy a regular chromecast and a hdmi audio extractor.


I thought of that but from what I read, you can add the Chromecast with HDMI to your google home music group, it would be more of a single point solution. I have 3 google home speakers and two stand alone speakers systems with chromecasts dongles which allow me to control music through most of my home from my phone via wifi.

It would work with a single speaker though. But then I think the echo dot would be the better choice.

You go me thinking about these so I put a few bids on chromecasts on ebay


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## dbpaddler

Johnny Dancing said:


> I thought of that but from what I read, you can add the Chromecast with HDMI to your google home music group, it would be more of a single point solution. I have 3 google home speakers and two stand alone speakers systems with chromecasts dongles which allow me to control music through most of my home from my phone via wifi.
> 
> It would work with a single speaker though. But then I think the echo dot would be the better choice.
> 
> You go me thinking about these so I put a few bids on chromecasts on ebay


They actually added regular chromecast support as well as android TV support to groups about two years ago. Initially you had to opt in to their preview, but it should have rolled out to everyone by now, considering the time that's passed.

I haven't tested it because I haven't had a need. Of course you'd have to have your TV on if it's fed directly to it. But if you have it going to a receiver you should be good to go. Or you can use something like this to use it standalone.
https://www.amazon.com/J-Tech-Digital-Extractor-Converter-JTDAT5CH/dp/B00BIQER0E?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_1

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## rczrider

dbpaddler said:


> You're not even a current tivo owner. You even returned your TS4k, a brand spanking new product. Yet you continue to linger, post, bash and complain.
> 
> Again, shocking, a newly launched product has bugs and issues. Google's products were mature, and groups constantly break, disappear and what not. Go on their support forums and there is a laundry list of issues. And as I posted before, Roku had major issues last year with an update that made their devices completely unusable. Mature products that took a long while to fix.
> 
> For someone that was never vested in the ecosystem and not currently in it with any product, you're by far the most vocal. Especially peculiar because it doesn't sound like you've been an early adopter of anything or have beta tested anything tech related because you have no tolerance for a newly launched product with bugs. "Newly launched" and "bugs" tend to go hand in hand.


If you're going to post-stalk, try to keep up. I have a TS4K right now.

I like how you think a person has to be "vested in the ecosystem" to have a valid opinion on the functionality of a product they actively use. That's the problem with you old folks. You don't realize that the target demographic has shifted to include people who aren't interested in DVRs because it's 2020.


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## Johnny Dancing

dbpaddler said:


> I cleared out a couple Targets for about $18. It's probably cheaper now to buy a regular chromecast and a hdmi audio extractor.
> 
> It still boggles my mind why they discontinued it. Like if it was a push to get me to buy your crap speakers, it pretty much backfired. Not sure why anyone would want those pimples littered around your house when you can have much nicer sound setups attach to a CCA. I have a 50's stereo console gutted and updated with one attached as well as two other setups with my amp/speaker setups for my tv's. All of which trounce even their max speaker on their worst day.


FYI for anyone interested in getting one while they are still around. Today someone just started selling Chromecasts Audios on eBay for $49.99, the lowest price for new (open box) I have seen in a long time. I ordered 2 and should be all set.


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## omelet1978

rczrider said:


> I was in the same boat - bought the first day or two of release, was disappointed, returned 30 days later - and just now bought another one last week from Amazon when it was still $49.99. Figured if it still sucks, dealing with Amazon is way better than dealing with TiVo directly.
> 
> I'm not impressed. HDR is still mandatory (though other users will tell you that if you don't like it it's because you didn't spend $2k on a TV and that's the real problem), and the black flashes while using Kodi and Plex are still present.
> 
> But my device hasn't gotten the "big" update that TiVo is rolling out right now, either. And, if I'm being totally fair, I haven't had any freezes / lock-ups that plagued my first unit.
> 
> I'm fully prepared to return this one, too, but I'm giving this update a shot, and also giving TiVo a chance to fix the PIN requirement on developer options that they accidentally put in this update. If they can't fix that before my return window closes with Amazon, I'm returning it, leaving another bad review, and holding out for the Google Sabrina device. If that's the route I go, I'll consider an extra $20-30 to be the cost of stability and a competent software team.


Isn't it August now in regards to the July update lol? I'm still using the Roku Ultra. The grid is kind of boring and it takes longer to find shows but beyond that it's a real solid device.


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## Alex_7

omelet1978 said:


> Isn't it August now in regards to the July update lol? I'm still using the Roku Ultra. The grid is kind of boring and it takes longer to find shows but beyond that it's a real solid device.


The update has been out for a few days now, if you haven't automatically got the update, you need to manually check for the firmware update then it will start downloading


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## dbpaddler

rczrider said:


> If you're going to post-stalk, try to keep up. I have a TS4K right now.
> 
> I like how you think a person has to be "vested in the ecosystem" to have a valid opinion on the functionality of a product they actively use. That's the problem with you old folks. You don't realize that the target demographic has shifted to include people who aren't interested in DVRs because it's 2020.


Was just going off our prior interactions where I thought you said you returned yours. Guess you picked up another one.

Anit wasn't about having a valid opinion, it's about hanging around a Tivo forum where you have no skin in the game. Like me hanging around an iPhone forum giving my negative two cents because I keep an iPhone SE around to troubleshoot for our iPhone owners when I really don't give two ****s about Apple. Or hanging around the Acura mdx forums after I traded in my mdx.

But you disregarded the other point and what's missed by many. Apparently it's OK for other companies with established products to have glitches and issues because why? But when tivo has a brand new product, they're not allowed to have issues or kissed deadlines and all that because they're Tivo, and it's envogue to rag on Tivo just because. Heck, Apple intentionally cripples devices to entice people to buy new phones, but that's OK because it's Apple. They willingly did that, and the sheep still follow. If tivo did that, the company would probably fold (revenue from the IP/software side of things aside) due to the outcry. But we're Apple, can't hate us.

But it's a forum, it's easy to whine and threaten to return if they don't do x, y and z. Maybe it makes you feel better to vent here. I don't know. Just feel like there's better things to do than constantly complain about the issues in every thread that pops up. It gets old.

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## rczrider

dbpaddler said:


> Was just going off our prior interactions where I thought you said you returned yours. Guess you picked up another one.


You thought wrong. Maybe you don't know as much as you pretend to?



dbpaddler said:


> Anit wasn't about having a valid opinion, it's about hanging around a Tivo forum where you have no skin in the game. Like me hanging around an iPhone forum giving my negative two cents because I keep an iPhone SE around to troubleshoot for our iPhone owners when I really don't give two ***** about Apple. Or hanging around the Acura mdx forums after I traded in my mdx.


Well, now, you can't have it both ways. I am active on a forum for which I have and use the product. Please, old wise one, tell me in which ways I must use the product for my direct experience regarding its functionality (or lack thereof) and opinion on its value compared to other products to be valid in your mind. Go ahead, I'll wait.



dbpaddler said:


> But you disregarded the other point and what's missed by many. Apparently it's OK for other companies with established products to have glitches and issues because why? But when tivo has a brand new product, they're not allowed to have issues or kissed deadlines and all that because they're Tivo, and it's envogue to rag on Tivo just because. Heck, Apple intentionally cripples devices to entice people to buy new phones, but that's OK because it's Apple. They willingly did that, and the sheep still follow. If tivo did that, the company would probably fold (revenue from the IP/software side of things aside) due to the outcry. But we're Apple, can't hate us.


Whew, boy, you're making some awfully big leaps there. I guess that's the best way you can come up with to justify your responses?

I never defended any particular company - certainly not Apple (I own none of their products, nor do I have accounts on any boards dedicated to discussion of their products) - in any way that indicated that I think they can do no wrong.

I know it hurts your narrative for me to point out the facts, but all I did was explain how my _direct experiences_ with Google products are what make me think Sabrina will be better than the TS4K, and launched with fewer (and less major) bugs.

I don't "rag on TiVo just because". I (correctly) point out the issues with the product I own and express my opinion that these bugs are directly related to the talent pool TiVo employs to work on said product. Just because you feel the need to white knight for a _company_ doesn't make the experiences and opinions of others less valid.



dbpaddler said:


> But it's a forum, it's easy to whine and threaten to return if they don't do x, y and z. Maybe it makes you feel better to vent here. I don't know. Just feel like there's better things to do than constantly complain about the issues in every thread that pops up. It gets old.


_Of course_ it makes me (and others) feel better to vent here. You know why? Because TiVo's customer service _sucks_. Great, they have a single presence in the reddit sub whose sole value is to say "No, really, guys, an update is coming!" and "Oh, sorry that's broken, I'll look into it and get back with you." Yes, it's better than nothing but if we're being honest, the rep literally says what a rep would say on the phone. That doesn't make the TS4K bugs magically disappear.

I would be _thrilled_ for the TS4K to be a raging success. A $50 dongle that isn't Amazon or Roku? And Android TV? Yes, please! The problem is that Amazon and Roku are both more stable than the TS4K. There are pros and cons to all of the options, which I fairly acknowledge despite your weird belief that I'm just here to trash the TS4K.

Part of your problem is that you're wrapping up all of my complaints from months ago into one package and assuming I'm complaining about things I'm no longer complaining about. TiVo has fixed some of the bugs I experienced with my first TS4K and that's why I got another to try out. But the product is still buggy and I don't owe TiVo any sort of pass for not fixing those bugs. They're a company and I'm a customer.


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## dbpaddler

rczrider said:


> You thought wrong. Maybe you don't know as much as you pretend to?
> 
> Well, now, you can't have it both ways. I am active on a forum for which I have and use the product. Please, old wise one, tell me in which ways I must use the product for my direct experience regarding its functionality (or lack thereof) and opinion on its value compared to other products to be valid in your mind. Go ahead, I'll wait.
> 
> Whew, boy, you're making some awfully big leaps there. I guess that's the best way you can come up with to justify your responses?
> 
> I never defended any particular company - certainly not Apple (I own none of their products, nor do I have accounts on any boards dedicated to discussion of their products) - in any way that indicated that I think they can do no wrong.
> 
> I know it hurts your narrative for me to point out the facts, but all I did was explain how my _direct experiences_ with Google products are what make me think Sabrina will be better than the TS4K, and launched with fewer (and less major) bugs.
> 
> I don't "rag on TiVo just because". I (correctly) point out the issues with the product I own and express my opinion that these bugs are directly related to the talent pool TiVo employs to work on said product. Just because you feel the need to white knight for a _company_ doesn't make the experiences and opinions of others less valid.
> 
> _Of course_ it makes me (and others) feel better to vent here. You know why? Because TiVo's customer service _sucks_. Great, they have a single presence in the reddit sub whose sole value is to say "No, really, guys, an update is coming!" and "Oh, sorry that's broken, I'll look into it and get back with you." Yes, it's better than nothing but if we're being honest, the rep literally says what a rep would say on the phone. That doesn't make the TS4K bugs magically disappear.
> 
> I would be _thrilled_ for the TS4K to be a raging success. A $50 dongle that isn't Amazon or Roku? And Android TV? Yes, please! The problem is that Amazon and Roku are both more stable than the TS4K is not. There are pros and cons to all of the options, which I fairly acknowledge despite your weird belief that I'm just here to trash the TS4K.
> 
> We can go back and forth as much as you want. You don't have to like what I say about the TS4K and I would encourage you to ignore me if you don't like for the facts to be brought up in every thread that discusses them. And if you can't ignore me, then keep white knighting for TiVo; heaven knows, they need it.


No **** they're more stable. They've been around for years and years. They've had their own issues along the way too with more issues at the jump if you can go back that far. You want to get an new product cheap, you're a beta tester at this point. If you can't accept that, then stick with the more stable well established products. That's the point. Just like many people avoid buying new design years on cars. That first model year is often plagued with bugs and annoyances that get smoothed out in subsequent years. The people that know better avoid it. They don't buy it and then chronically complain.

And it's not championing tivo. It's championing a newly introduced product where it's quite normal to have bugs and issues that ultimately get fixed. They're just not on your time line, they're on their own. A point you keep ignoring especially when you talk about well established mature products being more stable. You either want to ride out the new product bugs or you don't.

Happy to ignore.

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## rczrider

dbpaddler said:


> No **** they're more stable. They've been around for years and years. They've had their own issues along the way too. You want to get an new product cheap. You're a beta tester at this point. If you can't accept that then stick with the more stable we'll established products. That's the point. Just like many people avoid buying new design years on cars. That first model year is often plagued with bugs and annoyances that get smoothed out in subsequent years. The people that know better avoid it. They don't buy it and then chronically complain. Happy to ignore.


Haha, okay.

"You knew what you were getting when you bought a TiVo product! You can't start complaining now!"

Noted.


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## jaselzer

To be honest rczrider, I also thought you had returned your Stream and never looked back. In the beginning I read your posts to educate myself. Then I began to feel you were a “All things TiVo hater”. I sort of felt I was experiencing a “boy who cried wolf” story. In any event, I’m just trying to point out that perhaps your presentation is causing people to think that you simply hate TiVo and everything about it, though that might not be what you actually feel. Just a friendly thought. 


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## dbpaddler

jaselzer said:


> To be honest rczrider, I also thought you had returned your Stream and never looked back. In the beginning I read your posts to educate myself. Then I began to feel you were a "All things TiVo hater". I sort of felt I was experiencing a "boy who cried wolf" story. In any event, I'm just trying to point out that perhaps your presentation is causing people to think that you simply hate TiVo and everything about it, though that might not be what you actually feel. Just a friendly thought.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Usually it takes many years of being a Tivo owner to develop that level of deep resentment towards them. 

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## jaselzer

dbpaddler said:


> Usually it takes many years of being a Tivo owner to develop that level of deep resentment towards them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Lol

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## mdavej

jaselzer said:


> To be honest rczrider, I also thought you had returned your Stream and never looked back. In the beginning I read your posts to educate myself. Then I began to feel you were a "All things TiVo hater". I sort of felt I was experiencing a "boy who cried wolf" story. In any event, I'm just trying to point out that perhaps your presentation is causing people to think that you simply hate TiVo and everything about it, though that might not be what you actually feel. Just a friendly thought.


Sorry to pile on, but it did strike me as odd that he hated the TS4K so much that *he bought another one* . I also hate the TS4K (missing critical remote buttons, HDR bug, no way to integrate with Tivo boxes), so I never bought one in the first place. I tend to avoid products I don't like and buy products I do like.

In any case, it's been an entertaining saga.


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## dbpaddler

mdavej said:


> Sorry to pile on, but it did strike me as odd that he hated the TS4K so much that *he bought another one* . I also hate the TS4K (missing critical remote buttons, HDR bug, no way to integrate with Tivo boxes), so I never bought one in the first place. I tend to avoid products I don't like and buy products I do like.
> 
> In any case, it's been an entertaining saga.


Good to know I'm not way off base. For reference, are there better remotes on other streaming devices? I've used a chromecast for years. I have a firestick 4k still sitting in the box, but don't remember my old one having the greatest remote. And don't remember my mom's Roku being anything to write home about. I feel like all the streaming device remotes are lackluster.

Especially with Live channels and iptv apps being more front and center now. The remotes aren't really designed for it. Also not a fan of the removal of dedicated play/pays/ff/rew buttons. I think the TS4k remote comes close, especially when certain live channels services can take advantage of the remote buttons for their own purpose like Channels does. I can direct tune a channel with the number pad. I can go to live TV with the live button. Guide gives me the guide. Live also acts like a last button for switching to the previous channel. And skip does commercial skip.

Not everyone uses Channels, but it shows what other apps can do on these devices and best take advantage of the remote. And that's on the app developers, not Tivo or the respective device mfg.

But I'd love to see a more traditional tivo remote work with the TS4k that also learns and is backlit. If one of their DVR BT remotes would work seamlessly with it, I'd be ecstatic as my one Slide is collecting dust.

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## mdavej

dbpaddler said:


> Good to know I'm not way off base. For reference, are there better remotes on other streaming devices?
> 
> ...Also not a fan of the removal of dedicated play/pays/ff/rew buttons.


Removal of those buttons is my main gripe. All other streaming remotes I can think of have those buttons, even the model the TS4K is a clone of. So I'd argue that every other streaming remote I've ever seen is better. Even the much maligned Apple TV remote at least has a play button.

Yes, I do understand the argument that ok/right/left can theoretically serve the same purpose. But in reality they don't. App developers aren't consistent, so those buttons don't actually do the same thing as play/ffwd/rew on several apps. For example, on Netflix, arrows do frame by frame, but ffwd/rew do slow search. Held arrows to fast search, and held ffwd/rew do really fast search. So there you have 4 distinct functions which are impossible to get with a single button.

So Tivo, if you're listening, please put the 3 critical buttons which have existed on playback devices since the invention of recording (even tape recorders from the early 1900's had them in some form).

Other than the remote and the HDR bug, the TS4K is a decent little Android TV dongle, reasonably priced. If it weren't for the HDR bug, I'd probably buy one and just use a 3rd party remote.

But my biggest disappointment by far is the lack of a Tivo app to remotely access live and recorded channels from another Tivo box (like a Mini and the app we used to have on the Fire Stick). I expected Tivo's first streaming device to be a Mini replacement that also did streaming. That would have addresses their biggest shortcoming (lack of streaming apps) and kept me in the Tivo ecosystem. When that didn't happen, I sold all my Tivos. What they actually released was just another stick identical to all the other sticks I've had for over 10 years. The killer app on the Tivo stick isn't very killer either. ReelGood and JustWatch do the same thing far better.


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## dbpaddler

mdavej said:


> Removal of those buttons is my main gripe. All other streaming remotes I can think of have those buttons, even the model the TS4K is a clone of. So I'd argue that every other streaming remote I've ever seen is better. Even the much maligned Apple TV remote at least has a play button.
> 
> Yes, I do understand the argument that ok/right/left can theoretically serve the same purpose. But in reality they don't. App developers aren't consistent, so those buttons don't actually do the same thing as play/ffwd/rew on several apps. For example, on Netflix, arrows do frame by frame, but ffwd/rew do slow search. Held arrows to fast search, and held ffwd/rew do really fast search. So there you have 4 distinct functions which are impossible to get with a single button.
> 
> So Tivo, if you're listening, please put the 3 critical buttons which have existed on playback devices since the invention of recording (even tape recorders from the early 1900's had them in some form).
> 
> Other than the remote and the HDR bug, the TS4K is a decent little Android TV dongle, reasonably priced. If it weren't for the HDR bug, I'd probably buy one and just use a 3rd party remote.
> 
> But my biggest disappointment by far is the lack of a Tivo app to remotely access live and recorded channels from another Tivo box (like a Mini and the app we used to have on the Fire Stick). I expected Tivo's first streaming device to be a Mini replacement that also did streaming. That would have addresses their biggest shortcoming (lack of streaming apps) and kept me in the Tivo ecosystem. When that didn't happen, I sold all my Tivos. What they actually released was just another stick identical to all the other sticks I've had for over 10 years. The killer app on the Tivo stick isn't very killer either. ReelGood and JustWatch do the same thing far better.


While they'll have those nav buttons, they all seem to lack buttons to do simple live channels functions of sorts. Roku, Fire, Apple are all in the same boat there. I guess it's a trade off of what inconveniences would you prefer since none are perfect. If you don't do Live TV via you're streaming device, then those other options could be preferable. Since I'm ditching my Tivo Dvr's, having a remote more suited towards live TV is my preference, and so far the tivo one seems to be best suited for it.

Hopefully the next round of updated devices will bring new remotes. All it does is heighten competition.

And all of us wanted the TS4k to act like a mini. Knowing that wasn't in the cards was the main reason I started looking at alternatives and went with Channels DVR. If tivo isn't providing the solution, then I'll use their new device to hop out of their dvr ecosystem.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## mdavej

dbpaddler said:


> While they'll have those nav buttons, they all seem to lack buttons to do simple live channels functions of sorts. Roku, Fire, Apple are all in the same boat there.


The AT&T Osprey remote for their Android TV box has channel numbers. The universal remotes I use for those other devices also have channel numbers. But they don't do anything. The apps aren't designed to recognize them. So adding numbers to those remotes would be pointless. Not a very good trade off - functionality that doesn't do anything for entirely missing functionality.

In any case, on my Fire Stick and can just say "watch channel four point one" or "watch NBC" just as quickly as I can hit the number buttons. So loss of number keys isn't nearly as a big a deal as loss of transport keys.

To me, buying the TS4K is like buying a car with no wheels. Sure I could buy wheels for it. But I already have several new cars with wheels.


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## jaselzer

mdavej said:


> The AT&T Osprey remote for their Android TV box has channel numbers. The universal remotes I use for those other devices also have channel numbers. But they don't do anything. The apps aren't designed to recognize them. So adding numbers to those remotes would be pointless. Not a very good trade off - functionality that doesn't do anything for entirely missing functionality.
> 
> In any case, on my Fire Stick and can just say "watch channel four point one" or "watch NBC" just as quickly as I can hit the number buttons. So loss of number keys isn't nearly as a big a deal as loss of transport keys.
> 
> To me, buying the TS4K is like buying a car with no wheels. Sure I could buy wheels for it. But I already have several new cars with wheels.


I invested in a Harmony Elite with a Hub, which I hear now works with the Tivo Stream.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dbpaddler

jaselzer said:


> I invested in a Harmony Elite with a Hub, which I hear now works with the Tivo Stream.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Just when I was trying to do away with Harmony. But in my theater room, that would be perfect. It's the only room now with a Harmony, and the Elite to boot.

Here's the info to set it up. 
Harmony and Tivo Stream 4K

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## dbpaddler

mdavej said:


> The AT&T Osprey remote for their Android TV box has channel numbers. The universal remotes I use for those other devices also have channel numbers. But they don't do anything. The apps aren't designed to recognize them. So adding numbers to those remotes would be pointless. Not a very good trade off - functionality that doesn't do anything for entirely missing functionality.
> 
> In any case, on my Fire Stick and can just say "watch channel four point one" or "watch NBC" just as quickly as I can hit the number buttons. So loss of number keys isn't nearly as a big a deal as loss of transport keys.
> 
> To me, buying the TS4K is like buying a car with no wheels. Sure I could buy wheels for it. But I already have several new cars with wheels.


What about buttons for guide, commercial skip, last and so forth?

And not sure they have the ability on other devices, but with Android you have button mapper and can remap buttons based on your needs if the app you use supports it. In my case, Channels does support it. I haven't tried to do voice to control channels in the app. Will have to experiment at some point. But for me, the number pad does work for Live Channels apps, and if not from the get go, button mapper support can add it. So maybe the AT&T streamer could. Make the number keys functional.

It's all trade offs based on use cases. I'll take dealing with the directional pad for play navigation because I get the other dvr/live TV buttons that mimic what I had with tivo. So a more normal tv viewing experience. Also good if others are using the remote. But for you, you put the weight on the dedicate nav controls so the others will be more of a benefit. Options are good.

So the wuestion is are you returning the TS4k and sticking with the firestick?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## mdavej

dbpaddler said:


> What about buttons for guide, commercial skip, last and so forth?


My Fire TV (TV, not the stick) has a guide button. My universal can do commercial skips with macros. Last would be great, but I can do that with down arrow and pick from a list of recent channels. Still no compelling advantage on the TS4K remote that's worth losing play/ffwd/rew.


> And not sure they have the ability on other devices, but with Android you have button mapper and can remap buttons based on your needs if the app you use supports it. In my case, Channels does support it. I haven't tried to do voice to control channels in the app. Will have to experiment at some point. But for me, the number pad does work for Live Channels apps, and if not from the get go, button mapper support can add it. So maybe the AT&T streamer could. Make the number keys functional.


I'm aware of that option and have used it on other Android TV devices in the past. But I have no desire to remember that play/ffwd/rew is actually 1/2/3.


> It's all trade offs based on use cases. I'll take dealing with the directional pad for play navigation because I get the other dvr/live TV buttons that mimic what I had with tivo. So a more normal tv viewing experience. Also good if others are using the remote. But for you, you put the weight on the dedicate nav controls so the others will be more of a benefit. Options are good.


Options are good. Senseless crippling for the sake of style is not. Apple and Harmony tried to do that too, and for that reason I will not buy either of those. If others in my house picked up the TS4K remote, the first question I would get is "how do I play/ffwd/rew"? Well, ok/arrows might work in some applications. Just fumble around and see what works rather than press a familiar button whose function is obvious and intuitive.


> So the question is are you returning the TS4k and sticking with the firestick?


Never bought a TS4K to begin with. I knew from what I saw on paper that it wasn't for me.

I used to have a Channel Master Stream+ Android TV box which was loads better than this TS4K. Not only did the remote have a nearly full array of buttons including numbers, channel up/down, guide, play/ffwd/rew, etc., but it also had a built in OTA tuner for recording. It was a brilliant little box. Only thing that killed it was they could never get certified for certain streaming apps.









In any case, my house full of Fire TVs is a fine replacement for Tivo. Remote does everything I need and makes logical sense. Have been happily running Tivo-less for over 2 years now. The only reason I held on to my Tivos and hung around in the forums this long was the hope that the TS4K would actually integrate with Tivo. Sadly, it does not.


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## dbpaddler

Like that remote. Backlit?

I think I'm going to get to do beta testing for the TS4k. My new projector is 4k Lite, an Epson 2x shifter, so I'll be able test out 4k issues as well as live channel issues. Will have to see what other apps the homerun quatro will work with besides channels and their own. Still have a chromecast Ultra so if anything borks the TS4k, I can still enjoy the the theater room.

Stinks the remote for Sabrina is most likely going to suck, unless the leaked pic is just the top half, and the bottom has some more useful buttons not shown. More design fluff and less useful functionality. Honestly, stop using Apple as a benchmark. March to the beat of your own drum at this point and celebrate being different than Apple. See the attached pic.









Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## rczrider

mdavej said:


> Sorry to pile on, but it did strike me as odd that he hated the TS4K so much that *he bought another one* . I also hate the TS4K (missing critical remote buttons, HDR bug, no way to integrate with Tivo boxes), so I never bought one in the first place.


So it's odd because I bought a replacement (I still only have one) after a major update to see if they fixed the things that bugged me? So in your opinion, I should have given them one chance out of the gate and then sworn off of it for good?

And you're on a forum for a product you don't currently own, never owned, and don't plan on owning?

I just got slammed because paddleboy thought I was doing what you're _actually_ doing. I guess it's okay for _you_, though, because you're not saying bad things about TiVo. That's where the old folks draw the line.



dbpaddler said:


> Good to know I'm not way off base.


You really _are_ a white knight for TiVo. The person you're agreeing with is literally what you accuse me of being, but because they're not saying bad things about poor TiVo, it's okay. I guess it's common for hypocrites to miss their own hypocrisy, though.


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## Old Roamio 0

The TS4k does not have a play button, but the Nvidea shield controller used by a family member to play games does. It pairs with the TS4k as a remote, but does not keep the link for a long time like a remote does. Pairing is fickle. But hitting the play button, and the TS4k plays. Hitting it again and it pauses. (The nvidea controller has a joy stick, and menu buttons, and a left and right and up and down that the TS4k responds to too). 

So, re "play" : the TS4k streaming dongle knows how. The supplied remote just does not have the keys.


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## dbpaddler

rczrider said:


> So it's odd because I bought a replacement (I still only have one) after a major update to see if they fixed the things that bugged me? So in your opinion, I should have given them one chance out of the gate and then sworn off of it for good?
> 
> And you're on a forum for a product you don't currently own, never owned, and don't plan on owning?
> 
> I just got slammed because paddleboy thought I was doing what you're _actually_ doing. I guess it's okay for _you_, though, because you're not saying bad things about TiVo. That's where the old folks draw the line.
> 
> You really _are_ a white knight for TiVo. The person you're agreeing with is literally what you accuse me of being, but because they're not saying bad things about poor TiVo, it's okay. I guess it's common for hypocrites to miss their own hypocrisy, though.


Sorry but no. You could see posts of mine elsewhere where I've been very critical of Tivo. There is a reason why I went with Channels DVR and have been parting out my hardware. But I've also spent enough time with new tech, beta testing tech and so forth. So if it's a product I like, I'm optimistic about it and not pessimistic. I've also had interaction with one of the devs on Reddit, and believe they are working on and will solve the problems even if it's going slowly than we all would like.

You bought, exited, bought back but pretended like you never left. You constantly rant every chance you get and remind everyone how much more stable well established mature products are. Such amazing insight there. You obviously aren't one meant to deal with the pitfalls of being an early adopter of tech.

With that attitude, it made zero sense to jump back in just hearing of an update. You'd think someone in your shoes who's already starting out with a negative view and one round under their belt would've actually had the sense to take a wait and see approach, actually wait for feedback before jumping back in. This would be common sense instead of blindly jumping in because "oooo! An update! It must be great now." That just doesn't jive with your previous posts and general attitude. So shame on you at that point.

You ignore the fact these well established options have had their own early problems, their own firmware issues and things that have been broken over the years. There's a reason why they are fairly solid now, ("Now" being the key word) even though I've pointed out some mishaps as late as last year even. But you just ignored all that as well because I'm a Tivo apologist, and it's easier to attack that than to touch on all the other points.

Even when others point out a similar pattern you go back to the tivo apologist act. It's just old at this point.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## dbpaddler

Old Roamio 0 said:


> The TS4k does not have a play button, but the Nvidea shield controller used by a family member to play games does. It pairs with the TS4k as a remote, but does not keep the link for a long time like a remote does. Pairing is fickle. But hitting the play button, and the TS4k plays. Hitting it again and it pauses. (The nvidea controller has a joy stick, and menu buttons, and a left and right and up and down that the TS4k responds to too).
> 
> So, re "play" : the TS4k streaming dongle knows how. The supplied remote just does not have the keys.


While I miss dedicated play/pause/rew/ff buttons, the select button does just fine to play and pause while you're watching something.

I remember a remote once upon a time used the round pad as all four functions. Might've been a disc player of sorts. Top was play/pause. Rew/ff on either side and stop at the bottom. That was their dedicated setup.

If they made the peanut a half inch longer and put three buttons underneath the round pad for the play navigation, and added the backlight and added actual command learning, I think most would be ecstatic. A remote such as this should always be a at the very least be a premium option to buy. Tivo always had a premium remote option even if they were half a$$ed.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## mdavej

dbpaddler said:


> Like that remote. Backlit?


I like it better than the TS4K remote for sure. It wasn't backlit. Got rid of it a few years ago. My regular streaming remote is backlit (all the buttons are backlit, not just that multi-colored ring):











> I think I'm going to get to do beta testing for the TS4k. My new projector is 4k Lite, an Epson 2x shifter, so I'll be able test out 4k issues as well as live channel issues. Will have to see what other apps the homerun quatro will work with besides channels and their own. Still have a chromecast Ultra so if anything borks the TS4k, I can still enjoy the the theater room.


Cool. Please tell them to add play/ffwd/rew for me.



> Stinks the remote for Sabrina is most likely going to suck, unless the leaked pic is just the top half, and the bottom has some more useful buttons not shown. More design fluff and less useful functionality. Honestly, stop using Apple as a benchmark. March to the beat of your own drum at this point and celebrate being different than Apple.


Looking forward to this in spite of the minimalist remote. Any remote for Chromecast is long overdue and way better than using your phone.


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## dbpaddler

mdavej said:


> I like it better than the TS4K remote for sure. It wasn't backlit. Got rid of it a few years ago. My regular streaming remote is backlit (all the buttons are backlit, not just that multi-colored ring):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. Please tell them to add play/ffwd/rew for me.
> 
> Looking forward to this in spite of the minimalist remote. Any remote for Chromecast is long overdue and way better than using your phone.


I kinda like that one. Not a fan of the buttons on the bottom, but the rest looks good. Shame it's IR only.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## mdavej

rczrider said:


> So it's odd because I bought a replacement (I still only have one) after a major update to see if they fixed the things that bugged me? So in your opinion, I should have given them one chance out of the gate and then sworn off of it for good?
> 
> And you're on a forum for a product you don't currently own, never owned, and don't plan on owning?
> 
> I just got slammed because paddleboy thought I was doing what you're _actually_ doing. I guess it's okay for _you_, though, because you're not saying bad things about TiVo. That's where the old folks draw the line.


Totally fair. My post was mean spirited and I shouldn't have done it. Sorry about that.

For the record, I still intend to follow the TS4K in case version 2.0 fixes the remote. But I have lost all hope for a Tivo app on the device itself. If they fix the HDR bug, fix the remote and keep the price at $50, I'd buy one. AT&T did a major redesign on their Android TV remote, so there is a glimmer of hope.


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## dbpaddler

mdavej said:


> I like it better than the TS4K remote for sure. It wasn't backlit. Got rid of it a few years ago. My regular streaming remote is backlit (all the buttons are backlit, not just that multi-colored ring):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool. Please tell them to add play/ffwd/rew for me.
> 
> Looking forward to this in spite of the minimalist remote. Any remote for Chromecast is long overdue and way better than using your phone.


I'll definitely push for a better remote option.

And I always liked using my phone with chromecast. My theater room is setup to work with Google. So I'll make dinner, and tell Google to turn on the room. While finishing up I'll browse through prime or Netflix to see what I want to watch and cast it as I'm ready to head up. Pretty much sit down and start watching with zero effort. And you can find a second thing to watch without interrupting what you're currently watching. One thing you can't do with any other streaming option where you're tied to viewing it on screen.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## mdavej

dbpaddler said:


> I kinda like that one. Not a fan of the buttons on the bottom, but the rest looks good. Shame it's IR only.


Bottom buttons are intentionally vague since they can be programmed to do any function or macro. So that's a necessary evil.

Luckily, Roku boxes, Fire TV (if you add an IR dongle) and Apple TV still work with IR. You could probably use an FLIRC or IReTV IR dongle on the TS4K like some people do on Nvidia Shield. But I haven't heard of anybody attempting that yet. You'd have to get creative with splitters and adapters like this guy:


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## dbpaddler

mdavej said:


> Bottom buttons are intentionally vague since they can be programmed to do any function or macro. So that's a necessary evil.
> 
> Luckily, Roku boxes, Fire TV (if you add an IR dongle) and Apple TV still work with IR. You could probably use an FLIRC or IReTV IR dongle on the TS4K like some people do on Nvidia Shield. But I haven't heard of anybody attempting that yet. You'd have to get creative with splitters and adapters like this guy:


That's definitely a bit janky for a setup. That AT&T remote looks pretty sweet. Also like their box will default to live TV when it turns on. They need a setting like that when you turn on any android tv device. I'm sure I could set it up with the harmony as a macro to hit the live button when everything starts up, but I'm not going back to harmony remotes and hubs on every TV. That'd be dumb and a waste of money.









Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


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## rczrider

dbpaddler said:


> Sorry but no. You could see posts of mine elsewhere where I've been very critical of Tivo. There is a reason why I went with Channels DVR and have been parting out my hardware. But I've also spent enough time with new tech, beta testing tech and so forth. So if it's a product I like, I'm optimistic about it and not pessimistic. I've also had interaction with one of the devs on Reddit, and believe they are working on and will solve the problems even if it's going slowly than we all would like.
> 
> You bought, exited, bought back but pretended like you never left. You constantly rant every chance you get and remind everyone how much more stable well established mature products are. Such amazing insight there. You obviously aren't one meant to deal with the pitfalls of being an early adopter of tech.
> 
> With that attitude, it made zero sense to jump back in just hearing of an update. You'd think someone in your shoes who's already starting out with a negative view and one round under their belt would've actually had the sense to take a wait and see approach, actually wait for feedback before jumping back in. This would be common sense instead of blindly jumping in because "oooo! An update! It must be great now." That just doesn't jive with your previous posts and general attitude. So shame on you at that point.
> 
> You ignore the fact these well established options have had their own early problems, their own firmware issues and things that have been broken over the years. There's a reason why they are fairly solid now, ("Now" being the key word) even though I've pointed out some mishaps as late as last year even. But you just ignored all that as well because I'm a Tivo apologist, and it's easier to attack that than to touch on all the other points.
> 
> Even when others point out a similar pattern you go back to the tivo apologist act. It's just old at this point.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


I'd say I'm sorry that it bothers you that I gave the TS4K a second chance when a major update was released...but I'm not sorry. Your belief that I should 1.) never have returned the TS4K, and 2.) never criticized TiVo for poor firmware out of the gate is ridiculous.

And just because you don't like that I've called you out on your TiVo white knighting act doesn't make it less true. Everything you've said in response to my valid and accurate criticisms of the TS4K has demonstrated otherwise.

You keep doing you, though. And I'll keep doing me. Don't like it? Ignore me. Or keep post-stalking me to say that I should be nicer to TiVo. I, at least, will certainly be ignoring you form here on out. I'll let you have the last word, though, so feel free to tell me you don't care about how my experiences and opinions are wrong one last time.



mdavej said:


> For the record, I still intend to follow the TS4K in case version 2.0 fixes the remote. But I have lost all hope for a Tivo app on the device itself. If they fix the HDR bug, fix the remote and keep the price at $50, I'd buy one. AT&T did a major redesign on their Android TV remote, so there is a glimmer of hope.


Are you just hoping for a version 2.0, or did I miss a rumor? I agree that the TS4K remote is terrible, cluttered, and despite having too many buttons, is missing ones that actually make it useful. I'd love a revised version.

I really like the remote you posted (the one with the lighted ring). I don't care for Roku in general, but I think their remotes are better than the minimalist kind that comes with devices liked the Shield.


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## mdavej

@rczrider , just wishful thinking on my part.


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## Old Roamio 0

dbpaddler said:


> While I miss dedicated play/pause/rew/ff buttons, the select button does just fine to play and pause while you're watching something.
> 
> I remember a remote once upon a time used the round pad as all four functions. Might've been a disc player of sorts. Top was play/pause. Rew/ff on either side and stop at the bottom. That was their dedicated setup.
> 
> If they made the peanut a half inch longer and put three buttons underneath the round pad for the play navigation, and added the backlight and added actual command learning, I think most would be ecstatic. A remote such as this should always be a at the very least be a premium option to buy. Tivo always had a premium remote option even if they were half a$$ed.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


-------
With Sling it seems to get lost on what it is acting on. There is a status bar a the bottom that lets you see how far into the program it is. At first the tivo remote center button works on that, but then it shifts to the on screen play button. Up and down on the remote do no work to get back to where you want to on the screen then. Hitting back about 3 times cycles thru it though sometimes.


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## omelet1978

Bump

I saw there was some sort of software update, so just wondering if any of the major issues had been fixed vs the Beta product that was released 6 or 7 months ago.


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## Breadfan

omelet1978 said:


> Bump
> 
> I saw there was some sort of software update, so just wondering if any of the major issues had been fixed vs the Beta product that was released 6 or 7 months ago.


Can you post what the firmware version is?


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## mattyro7878

So...as I write this I am seeing the opening Android animation. Going on 2 minutes now. Am I getting an update? Should I let it play out? This is crazy. Still doing that hinky animation. And the amber light on my ts4k remote blinked for about 30 seconds.


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## osu1991

Watching the one in my office now. no updates available


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## Old Roamio 0

After owning a Tivo roamio for so long, I like the fact that the remote has a cute tivo icon on the tivo button, and makes tivo beep sounds when you make menu changes,


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