# Sad state of Tivo



## klyde (Feb 3, 2002)

Just got off the phone with Tivo. I have been a Tivo user since the series one devices.
Ive had at least 8 boxes, all with lifetime. I still have a premier, Romeo, and Bolt with lifetime. Recently my Bolt OTA died. I called Tivo for a repair, they told me to call Weeknees.
Weeknees told me its a known problem and is unrepairable. I never heard of a company selling an electronic device with a known problem that cant be repaired.
The Bolt has already been discontinued. 
Tivo will NOT re activate any series 1-5 boxes.
They now only sell Edge boxes.
Tivo doesn't offer any repair service.
They wont let me transfer lifetime from the Bolt I got from my Brother, They used to do it for $100 to a another Bolt of the same type they said.
They don't have any refurbished boxes.
They wont cut me a deal on the guide.
It will cost me $549 to add lifetime , $149 a year. of $12.95 a month to buy a guide for the Bolt.
A refurbished Bolt can be bought for $300 with lifetime.

Why would anyone stay with Tivo?
Im looking for an alternate box.


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## High Technology (Apr 16, 2006)

TiVo hardware is now a legacy device / business for them Xperi bought TiVo in 2019, and touts itself as an IP licensing company. So they aren't a consumer electronics business, rather they focus on licensing their technology to others. They bought TiVo for the IP portfolio, not the installed userbase of TiVo devotees (which all of us are).

Xperi's About on Linked In says the following, which basically says it's all about licensing and not about hardware:

Xperi invents, develops, and delivers technologies that enable extraordinary experiences. Xperi technologies, delivered via its brands (DTS, HD Radio, IMAX Enhanced, Invensas, TiVo), and by its startup, Perceive, make entertainment more entertaining, and smart devices smarter. Xperi technologies are integrated into billions of consumer devices, media platforms, and semiconductors worldwide, driving increased value for partners, customers and consumers.


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## klyde (Feb 3, 2002)

I believe Tivo will be dead in a couple of years if not sooner. I forgot to add that Tivo will NOT re activate any series 1-5 boxes.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

klyde said:


> I believe Tivo will be dead in a couple of years if not sooner. I forgot to add that Tivo will NOT re activate any series 1-5 boxes.


1-4, S1-Premiere
Roamio units and higher are still valid and able to be activated


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## vjquan (Feb 14, 2009)

Most other alternatives are streaming boxes that can't be hooked up to a TV. I still think TiVo is best when it comes to a set top DVR. You can go with older TiVo hardware, but they're also slower.


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## klyde (Feb 3, 2002)

Im pretty sure they told me series 1-5 can NOT be RE activated anymore. However It doesn't matter anymore to me. Im through with Tivo.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

vjquan said:


> Most other alternatives are streaming boxes that can't be hooked up to a TV.


Huh?



klyde said:


> Im pretty sure they told me series 1-5 can NOT be RE activated anymore. However It doesn't matter anymore to me. Im through with Tivo.


Fine, but that's incorrect, the Roamio is considered a supported box at this time, there's no reason for this thread to spread misinformation.


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## klyde (Feb 3, 2002)

Amazon Fire TV Recast Review

Amazon Fire TV Recast review: One of the best cord-cutter companions yet


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## vjquan (Feb 14, 2009)

dianebrat said:


> Huh?


No HDMI output.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

vjquan said:


> Most other alternatives are streaming boxes that can't be hooked up to a TV. I still think TiVo is best when it comes to a set top DVR. You can go with older TiVo hardware, but they're also slower.





vjquan said:


> No HDMI output.


What streamers are you referring to that don't have HDMI outputs? 
I can't even name one that doesn't have HDMI, AppleTV, Nvidia Shield, Fire devices, Roku, all have HDMI


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## klyde (Feb 3, 2002)

dianebrat said:


> Huh?
> 
> Fine, but that's incorrect, the Roamio is considered a supported box at this time, there's no reason for this thread to spread misinformation.


I did not intend to spread false information. Perhaps there foreign help center made the mistake.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

The stand-alone cable TV DVR concept (i.e., TiVo) has suffered from a major setback in the form of digital cable. With analog cable a DVR could be designed so that it worked with any cable signal, not requiring any cooperation from, or approval of, the cable company. Making TiVo work with digital cable requires cooperation (i.e., support) from cable companies to design and furnish devices (CableCARD and Tuning Adapters). For obvious competitive business reasons, such cooperation has not really been there, although their was a pretense of it, to satisfy FCC regulations.

I’m surprised at how long TiVo has survived given this situation. Now the whole situation is about to be swamped by the tsunami of streaming video, which eventually will make a lot of the previous issues disappear — along with cable TV and cable TV DVR’s.

This is the perspective in which to view the unsurprising “sad state of TiVo”.


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## vjquan (Feb 14, 2009)

dianebrat said:


> What streamers are you referring to that don't have HDMI outputs?
> I can't even name one that doesn't have HDMI, AppleTV, Nvidia Shield, Fire devices, Roku, all have HDMI


Referring to replacement DVR alternatives. The Amazon Fire TV Recast stated above has no HDMI and streams to devices.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

vjquan said:


> Referring to replacement DVR alternatives. The Amazon Fire TV Recast stated above has no HDMI and streams to devices.


Does the Amazon Fire TV Recast playback perform like a TiVo with regards to FF, Rewind, and other trick play desires, given that the material is stored at least locally within your home network? Or is it more like the god awful navigation of almost all the streaming service apps?


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

klyde said:


> Why would anyone stay with Tivo?
> Im looking for an alternate box.


Try Channels DVR. Put a 30-day free trial of the software on a spare PC/Mac or an NAS (I use a Synology, easy simple install), put an HD HomeRun Connect Quatro or 4K on your home network, they find each other, and presto. $8/mo or $80/year if you like it.

Free Channels DVR clients: Apple TV, Fire TV, Android/Android TV, and iOS. Then you've got your local shows and your streaming services in a simple interface light years ahead of TiVo in streaming performance, controlled by one remote. Also works in any web browser, and can be used in-home or remote.

(You can even put Channels on TiVo's new Stream 4K, but that's extra work, it's not entirely reliable, and clearly you're done with the company. And hey, they're done with us, so why not?)


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

vjquan said:


> Referring to replacement DVR alternatives. The Amazon Fire TV Recast stated above has no HDMI and streams to devices.


That's not what you referred to, you referred to streamers of which all of usual suspects have HDMI outputs.
The Fire TV recast is more a niche product than streamers that you're more likely to find in a home.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Try Channels DVR. Put a 30-day free trial of the software on a spare PC/Mac or an NAS (I use a Synology, easy simple install), put an HD HomeRun Connect Quatro or 4K on your home network, they find each other, and presto. $8/mo or $80/year if you like it.
> 
> Free Channels DVR clients: Apple TV, Fire TV, Android/Android TV, and iOS. Then you've got your local shows and your streaming services in a simple interface light years ahead of TiVo in streaming performance, controlled by one remote. Also works in any web browser, and can be used in-home or remote.
> 
> (You can even put Channels on TiVo's new Stream 4K, but that's extra work, it's not entirely reliable, and clearly you're done with the company. And hey, they're done with us, so why not?)


Isn't there some copy protection caveat that should always be included with these recommendations? The ability to record protected content is what keeps TiVo (even WMC) relevant.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Isn't there some copy protection caveat that should always be included with these recommendations? The ability to record protected content is what keeps TiVo (even WMC) relevant.


He's talking about replacing a Bolt OTA, so I recommended OTA tuners. If he wants to include a CableCARD tuner (the 3-tuner Prime is in production again), then caveats may be required depending on the cable company and whether he wants premium channels, which leads to a discussion of the amazing TVE feature that may be a solution for some. I'm doing fine with an Xfinity CableCARD and no premiums. Also having fun with OTA.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

klyde said:


> The Bolt has already been discontinued.


The first Bolt was released 6 years ago and has been discontinued since 2017, when they released the Edge. It is not uncommon for a company to discontinue one device after they release another. Note: "discontinued" does not mean "unsupported". They continued to sell new and refurbished Bolts for years but have since stopped.



klyde said:


> Tivo will NOT re activate any series 1-5 boxes.


Not true. They have stopped activating up to the Premier, which came out 11 years ago. That's the same year the iPhone 4 came out, for perspective.



klyde said:


> They now only sell Edge boxes.


It's their newest device, released 4 years ago. Not unusual for a company to solely focus on their current product line.



klyde said:


> Tivo doesn't offer any repair service.


So. Neither do lots of companies.



klyde said:


> They wont let me transfer lifetime from the Bolt I got from my Brother, They used to do it for $100 to a another Bolt of the same type they said.


This has never been an official option in their 20+ year history. Officially, lifetime service was NOT transferrable, period. If they let you, you got lucky.



klyde said:


> They don't have any refurbished boxes.


So. Neither do lots of companies.



klyde said:


> They wont cut me a deal on the guide.


Um, most companies don't "cut deals". I think Netflix costs too much. I tried to ask them to cut me a deal and guess what? They told me "No!" I guess I'll go to Hulu. The sad state of Netflix. Did you know they don't even support their apps on some devices that are 11 years old?



klyde said:


> It will cost me $549 to add lifetime , $149 a year. of $12.95 a month to buy a guide for the Bolt.


That's been their pricing for quite some time. You are also not just "buying the guide". You are subsidizing the software and all features therein. Their business model for 20+ years has been a software subscription model.



klyde said:


> A refurbished Bolt can be bought for $300 with lifetime.


OK. Then go buy one. No one is stopping you, including TiVo.


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## vjquan (Feb 14, 2009)

klyde said:


> Im looking for an alternate box.





vjquan said:


> Most other alternatives are streaming boxes that can't be hooked up to a TV. I still think TiVo is best when it comes to a set top DVR. You can go with older TiVo hardware, but they're also slower.





dianebrat said:


> That's not what you referred to, you referred to streamers of which all of usual suspects have HDMI outputs.
> The Fire TV recast is more a niche product than streamers that you're more likely to find in a home.


The context to this discussion is to find an "alternative" replacement for TiVo, which is what I said above.
The Amazon box, which the OP is considering, is an alternative that's supposed to compete with a TiVo set top box, but has a downside of no HDMI output. I called it a streamer in the generic sense of no direct hookup.



cwoody222 said:


> The first Bolt was released 6 years ago and has been discontinued since 2017, when they released the Edge.


Bolt OTA was released 2018-2019 per Tivopedia. My refurbished bolt has a manufacture date of early 2020.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> He's talking about replacing a Bolt OTA, so I recommended OTA tuners


Fair point.

Re: the SD 3-tuner Prime... is it "in production" again, or just the limited run based on the found components (that are no longer generally available)?

And the Channels TVE feature is still considered "beta," right?


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

FireTV Recast isn’t a streaming device. It’s a network tuner. It’s sole purpose is to tune and decode an over the air signal. It is accessed via a separate fire tv streaming device which provides access to other streaming apps.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

krkaufman said:


> Fair point.
> 
> Re: the SD 3-tuner Prime... is it "in production" again, or just the limited run based on the found components (that are no longer generally available)?
> 
> And the Channels TVE feature is still considered "beta," right?


For a small company like SD, 3,000 units is "production" regardless of how they found the components. I got mine on eBay though, in new-in-box condition. But the company's main focus now is new OTA units, including ATSC 3.0. I'm hoping the next-generation of OTA can pierce through my local rain interference. Then we'd probably be done with cable.

As for the Channels TVE feature, yes it's still in beta and may always be in beta. It works great for some, but for full WAF as soon as we hit a bug I got a Prime and paired it with the CableCARD (from our buggy old Bolt).


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## Aaron Malloy (Oct 30, 2019)

I think the popularity of streaming has been the last nail in Tivo's coffin. Years ago TiVo made sense, in that when you recorded a show, that was generally the only way to watch it later at your convenience. Nowadays all that content is already there for the viewing, to watch whenever you see fit. And you can pause, rewind and fast forward the program, just like a DVR.

When I had TiVo, I was on the monthly plan. Sometimes I kicked myself for not getting the lifetime unit. But in actuality, it probably ended up being about the same amount, since I wasn't on TiVo for very long. Lifetime made sense years and years ago. But for somebody recently purchasing a lifetime unit, I don't think it's the best financial move one could make.


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## klyde (Feb 3, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> The first Bolt was released 6 years ago and has been discontinued since 2017, when they released the Edge. It is not uncommon for a company to discontinue one device after they release another. Note: "discontinued" does not mean "unsupported". They continued to sell new and refurbished Bolts for years but have since stopped.
> 
> Not true. They have stopped activating up to the Premier, which came out 11 years ago. That's the same year the iPhone 4 came out, for perspective.
> 
> ...


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

Aaron Malloy said:


> I think the popularity of streaming has been the last nail in Tivo's coffin. Years ago TiVo made sense, in that when you recorded a show, that was generally the only way to watch it later at your convenience. Nowadays all that content is already there for the viewing, to watch whenever you see fit. And you can pause, rewind and fast forward the program, just like a DVR.
> 
> When I had TiVo, I was on the monthly plan. Sometimes I kicked myself for not getting the lifetime unit. But in actuality, it probably ended up being about the same amount, since I wasn't on TiVo for very long. Lifetime made sense years and years ago. But for somebody recently purchasing a lifetime unit, I don't think it's the best financial move one could make.


The last TiVo I purchased with lifetime was 8/1/19 so it's getting close to 2 years. Hopefully soon, I'll be getting to the purchase vs. lease breakeven point. I've had others with lifetime and they're still going strong so it seems those have paid off in getting the lifetime service.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Aaron Malloy said:


> Years ago TiVo made sense, in that when you recorded a show, that was generally the only way to watch it later at your convenience. Nowadays all that content is already there for the viewing, to watch whenever you see fit. And you can pause, rewind and fast forward the program, just like a DVR.


TiVo still makes sense (conceptually), especially with the ability to seemlessly integrate live, fresh recording and streaming content into a single interface. TiVo just failed to execute; OnePass was a great concept but it fell short on many fronts, and was further crippled by TiVo's paltry streaming service support.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

vjquan said:


> The Amazon box, which the OP is considering, is an alternative that's supposed to compete with a TiVo set top box, but has a downside of no HDMI output. I called it a streamer in the generic sense of no direct hookup.


I understood what you meant when you referred to headless network-connected DVRs as "streaming boxes" (in that they do stream live and recorded OTA TV to various client devices on the home network). And, yes, the major alternatives to TiVo are that sort of device: Amazon Fire TV Recast, Tablo, HDHomeRun. And while some of those set-ups have some disadvantages compared to a TiVo that connects directly to the TV via HDMI, they have some advantages too, in that they are whole-home solutions that can serve multiple TVs and they work via apps on popular streaming devices (Fire TV, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku) that everyone is using anyway. I use an HDHomeRun in conjunction with an Apple TV 4K box and love it.

Now, that said, if you specifically want an HDMI-connected OTA DVR that is NOT a TiVo, Tablo has introduced a couple such models in the past year or so. I honestly don't know enough about them, though, to say whether I'd recommend them over a TiVo. (My hunch is that most consumers who want an HDMI-connected OTA DVR would be better served with the TiVo Edge for Antenna with lifetime service for $300.) Unfortunately, on these new HDMI Tablo units, they chose not to run Google's Android TV on it, just their own Tablo software (atop open-source Linux, probably). So all they can do is OTA TV. You can't install and run apps on it.

TV-Connected Tablo DVRs & How They Work


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

cwoody222 said:


> This has never been an official option in their 20+ year history.


Not true. It's been offered at least once before and the offer was official.

I transferred lifetime from my TiVo HD to a new Bolt+. The subject line of the email from 2017 was "Finally. Transfer your lifetime service for just $99 with the purchase of any new TiVo BOLT". It was the "once in a lifetime" (as the email put it) offer.


cwoody222 said:


> Officially, lifetime service was NOT transferrable, period. If they let you, you got lucky.


Yes.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Yes, you are correct they have made limited time upgrade offers in the past. Probably enough to count on one hand in 20 years.

But that wasn’t the original claim. Which was that you could transfer lifetime between same models just by asking. They’ve never officially offered that.
(and yes, I’m aware of the small number of grandfathered people from 1999 who I am discounting for simplicity)


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## vahighland (Mar 24, 2020)

NashGuy said:


> I understood what you meant when you referred to headless network-connected DVRs as "streaming boxes" (in that they do stream live and recorded OTA TV to various client devices on the home network). And, yes, the major alternatives to TiVo are that sort of device: Amazon Fire TV Recast, Tablo, HDHomeRun. And while some of those set-ups have some disadvantages compared to a TiVo that connects directly to the TV via HDMI, they have some advantages too, in that they are whole-home solutions that can serve multiple TVs and they work via apps on popular streaming devices (Fire TV, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku) that everyone is using anyway. I use an HDHomeRun in conjunction with an Apple TV 4K box and love it.
> 
> Now, that said, if you specifically want an HDMI-connected OTA DVR that is NOT a TiVo, Tablo has introduced a couple such models in the past year or so. I honestly don't know enough about them, though, to say whether I'd recommend them over a TiVo. (My hunch is that most consumers who want an HDMI-connected OTA DVR would be better served with the TiVo Edge for Antenna with lifetime service for $300.) Unfortunately, on these new HDMI Tablo units, they chose not to run Google's Android TV on it, just their own Tablo software (atop open-source Linux, probably). So all they can do is OTA TV. You can't install and run apps on it.
> 
> TV-Connected Tablo DVRs & How They Work


Do any of these alternatives allow you to download the TV show to a PC...something like Kmttg?


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

vahighland said:


> Do any of these alternatives allow you to download the TV show to a PC...something like Kmttg?


Channels DVR saves shows to .mpg files, which can be easily copied from the server to your PC. You can also copy .mpg, .m4v, etc. shows over to an import directory on the server. No special tools needed, just your operating system and a local player like VLC.


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## vahighland (Mar 24, 2020)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> Channels DVR saves shows to .mpg files, which can be easily copied from the server to your PC. You can also copy .mpg, .m4v, etc. shows over to an import directory on the server. No special tools needed, just your operating system and a local player like VLC.


Thanks, good to know. I'll try to hold on to my TiVos until end of life (theirs or mine) , but this gives me something to research for later.


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## berg0449 (Nov 5, 2011)

klyde said:


> They don't have any refurbished boxes.


While they don't directly sell refurbished normally you can refurbished Tivo with Lifetime thru weeknees. Got a refurbished Tivo deal with weeknees. Basically I paid about the price I would have paid for 1 year service for both the Tivo and Lifetime.

But I was ok getting it with break even point of 1 year but would never trust they would be around to pay full price anymore.


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## klyde (Feb 3, 2002)

I do not understand what your saying. Weeknees does sell refurbished, on there website refurbished Bolts are $350 on Ebay they sell for $300.

*refurbished Tivo with Lifetime thru weeknees. Please explain.*

Weeknees says my Bolt is unrepairable with a known frailer. I have also seen another post about a Bolt with different problem that Weeknees says in unrepairable.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Just for the record, it's spelled WeaKnees.


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

klyde said:


> Im pretty sure they told me series 1-5 can NOT be RE activated anymore. However It doesn't matter anymore to me. Im through with Tivo.


Sometimes customer reps make mistakes. Sometimes, it's just worth calling back and speaking to someone else. Sometimes, it may be worth spending hours trying and trying again, escalating up higher and higher, until you find someone who cares and is willing to make an exception.

I think we all miss TiVo Inc. If only one of us were a multibillionaire, then we could try buying the company to return it to its glory days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo_Inc.

(By the way, if you don't like something about TiVo, call up over the phone and speak out. If enough people do it, maybe they'll get the hint that something needs fixed.)


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## bw Squirrel (Aug 17, 2019)

TKnight206 said:


> Sometimes customer reps make mistakes. Sometimes, it's just worth calling back and speaking to someone else. Sometimes, it may be worth spending hours trying and trying again, escalating up higher and higher, until you find someone who cares and is willing to make an exception.
> 
> I think we all miss TiVo Inc. If only one of us were a multibillionaire, then we could try buying the company to return it to its glory days.
> 
> ...


I think you and the OP are expressing the frustration a lot of Legacy users have. Like him, I've been on the Tivo train since series one and really think I've come to the end of the road.

One of the things I always liked about Tivo was the fact that I could call and feel like customer service was interested in my experience both with them and the hardware. You didn't tend to escalate to the next person in the chain because there wasn't a need as the first person I talked to was usually really interested in helping. Tivo as an entity cared about the product it produced but equally as much about how the customers overall experience with Tivo was. As much as I hate the expression Tivo was a lifestyle change. Remember, they changed watching television far more than being just a digital VCR.

Customer service couldn't always help, but damn, I loved that the response was sometimes, "Hmmmmm. That's really weird, hold on let me ask if anyone else here ever had that problem. Mine never did that". They were genuinely interested in solving the issue. Or if when you called and they realized you understood the tech, you could cut through to the issue instead of being run through a script. I understand that things change.

And if service couldn't help out they were always more than fair about a replacement unit and Lifetime warranty. Over the years I've had more than a dozen machines and the overall quality has been in free fall for years. I understand cable format changes wreaked havoc on their infrastructure but the durability of the hardware declined noticeably. Lifetime service on their machines had always made sense to me but not anymore.

I have a bolt 3T that has drive failure after less than two years, as itself was a replacement for its failed predecessor which lasted only one year. I transferred that lifetime service from the original Bolt which had been transferred from IT'S predecessor for a nominal charge, maybe $100. Over the years I was always extended that courtesy from Tivo and that was as recent as 2019, probably just presale of the company. It's interesting to hear that not everyone had that experience.

Maybe it had to do with how long I'd been a Tivo user, maybe it was because I was always a Lifetime subscriber, I don't know, but things have changed at Tivo. Both customer support and sales have been outsourced to folks clearly reading a script which they cannot deviate from clearly and I feel have little investment in getting a customer actually satisfied as they once had. I asked about extending my lifetime service to a new machine since neither of the bolts lasted very long. The canned responses I got made it clear that the customer service model had radically changed and there wasn't any real concern to keep me as a user. Again I get it, things change, but the experience left me realizing that now Tivo is nothing special, they're just another company, which is kind of sad. It may time to find an alternative but it's like losing an old friend you could always count on. It's clear by this community that I am not the only one who felt this way.

I agree, once Tivo was scooped up for their IP, it was the death knell for the company we knew and loved. And I loved Tivo, over the years they proved to be a solid company who I would recommend to anyone who would listen. But now they have a hardware division that is competing in an ever changing streaming market. They're a Model T at LeMans. And the new owner clearly see the product side as an anchor.

I'm giving the Edge a try but it's mostly out of loyalty to what Tivo once was. I got a yearly service plan for the first time. This may be the last purchase of a 20+ year commitment but all things change. RIP Tivo


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## TKnight206 (Oct 20, 2016)

bw Squirrel said:


> I think you and the OP are expressing the frustration a lot of Legacy users have. Like him, I've been on the Tivo train since series one and really think I've come to the end of the road.
> 
> One of the things I always liked about Tivo was the fact that I could call and feel like customer service was interested in my experience both with them and the hardware. You didn't tend to escalate to the next person in the chain because there wasn't a need as the first person I talked to was usually really interested in helping. Tivo as an entity cared about the product it produced but equally as much about how the customers overall experience with Tivo was. As much as I hate the expression Tivo was a lifestyle change. Remember, they changed watching television far more than being just a digital VCR.
> 
> ...


It was a combination of rising cable DVR prices and one of the summer sales going on one year that pushed me to purchase a TiVo. I needed breakout cables for that Roamio, but didn't order them at the time. Ordering them separately would have meant an extra shipping charge if I recall. Customer service was nice. I think they sent me some for free, separately, from the TiVo purchase. Next month rolled around, and the price of the TiVo went down, and I think after like 30 days of the original purchase, I was able to get them to do like a $100 price match or something.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

I started with TiVos with Series 1's (I had two of them). I also had a Series 2 DirecTivo and standalone (mostly loaned out), a TiVo HD and now a Bolt+.

I had lifetime on all of them (except on DirecTiVo where it wasn't possible by the time I started). Lifetime was transfered from TiVo HD to Bolt+ via the "once in a lifetime" offer,


bw Squirrel said:


> And if service couldn't help out they were always more than fair about a replacement unit and Lifetime warranty. Over the years I've had more than a dozen machines and the overall quality has been in free fall for years. I understand cable format changes wreaked havoc on their infrastructure but the durability of the hardware declined noticeably. Lifetime service on their machines had always made sense to me but not anymore.
> 
> I have a bolt 3T that has drive failure after less than two years, as itself was a replacement for its failed predecessor which lasted only one year. I transferred that lifetime service from the original Bolt which had been transferred from IT'S predecessor for a nominal charge, maybe $100. Over the years I was always extended that courtesy from Tivo and that was as recent as 2019, probably just presale of the company. It's interesting to hear that not everyone had that experience.
> 
> Maybe it had to do with how long I'd been a Tivo user, maybe it was because I was always a Lifetime subscriber, I don't know, but things have changed at Tivo. Both customer support and sales have been outsourced to folks clearly reading a script which they cannot deviate from clearly and I feel have little investment in getting a customer actually satisfied as they once had. I asked about extending my lifetime service to a new machine since neither of the bolts lasted very long.


I've never ever had to get a warranty or paid replacement of a TiVo. It's not like the warranties were very long. None of my units ever died. Sure, maybe their drives went bad/flaky and I replaced them anyway, Or, I'd already upgraded to my own drive and their drive was no longer in use. The only two where I can think of the drives going bad were the Series 2 standalone I had and the 160 gig drive that came in the TivoHD.

I'm still on the original 3 TB drive on my Bolt+ that I ordered in mid-April 2017 as part of that "once in a lifetime" offer. I suspect you hadn't taken steps to keep its internal temps down (esp. for the hard drive) due to the terrible hardware design (anemic fan w/insufficient airflow). I used to use laptop cooling pads which would bring the temp way down but switched to two AC Infinity fans (TiVo Bolt vs TiVo edge).

I've probably called their customer support less than 10 times, maybe not even 5. I didn't have a reason to.


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## riffjim4069 (Oct 8, 2007)

I have to agree with the OP and state that Tivo service and support have gone from A+, in my eyes, to a D- company based on my latest experience. In a nutshell, I've been with Tivo since 2008 but was away from late-2018 until mid-2020 because we moved and didn't initially have cable service in the are - just AT&T. I've had something like a dozen devices (several Premiere's with Lifetime that we no longer use) but was using 2 Bolt+, a Romio Pro, and three Minis for our whole home needs.

Well, a Bolt+ hard-drive **** the bed in December. Weak Knees wanted way too much for a replacement drive, so I used their continual care program to get an EDGE at an okay price even though I wasn't trilled with only a 2TB drive. Problems: 

First, they received by DOA Bolt+ in 12-hours via FedEx since they're shipped from 40-miles away. Sadly, it took almost 7-weeks for my replacement Edge to be shipped and arrived. They kept blaming COVID. Ugh!

After the Edge arrived, I noticed I could send recordings to it. I noticed that transfer and download options (check blocks) said N/A when looking at Device Preference at Tivo.com. When I pointed this out to "tech support" (although I could sometimes hear goats and chicken in the background) and going through all sorts of troubleshooting nonsense, I was told these options didn't matter (had to explain to them what they were)...and getting software updates, and having the matter escalated, the problem still wasn't resolved after almost 2-months. Honest, I told them to provision the Edge as though it were a DVR capable and transferring/downloading contents...and not a Mini. I wanted to rip my hair-out because I couldn't get in touch with anyone at Tivo (or whatever the new company is) to fix the problem. 
Finally got a new Edge and it works just fine. Problem is there is no damn eSATA for me to plug-in my 1TB DVR expander. Ugh! 
This morning I woke-up to my 2nd Bolt+ with a crapped-out hard drive. WTF? My Tivo HD, Premieres, Roamio Pro (a work horse will a full sized hard drive) never had any issues. I don't think I got much more than 2-years of service of both Bolt DVRs due to our not having cable for a couple years.

Question: Is it worth having my Bolt+ repaired or just replace it because they always seem to be running hot? Thanks.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

riffjim4069 said:


> Question: Is it worth having my Bolt+ repaired or just replace it because they always seem to be running hot? Thanks.


My Bolt was terrible, due to production quality and problematic design. HDs do go on all models, usually in about five years in my experience even in my wonderful Roamio Pro, but I have no trust in Bolts. I junked my Bolt and put its card in an HD HomeRun Prime for use with Channels DVR.* Meanwhile the ol' Roamio Pro just keeps chugging along since I replaced the HD, so I'm running it in parallel with Channels DVR, but I have no trust in TiVo design, quality, support, or even commitment to the DVR business anymore so I'm sad to say it will be our last TiVo.

If you want another TiVo DVR, I recommend you get a Roamio Pro with lots of storage space from WeaKnees - as I always say, Roamio was the last great TiVo DVR - or at least have them upgrade your Edge. An Edge is better than a Roamio for accessing streaming services of course, but Apple/Fire/Android/Roku devices are far better than both so I don't factor that in and have no Edge here.

*Channels DVR works well here because we watch only non-premium channels, and we're not on Spectrum. Love it.


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## riffjim4069 (Oct 8, 2007)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> *Channels DVR works well here because we watch only non-premium channels, and we're not on Spectrum. Love it.


Thanks, I'm going to trash the Bolt+ and take advantage of the $199 EDGE w/Lifetime transfer, or go with Weaknees Roamio Pro. I figure Tivo is good for 2-years of support--since they're still selling new boxes--before they pull-the-plug on the consumer market. I wasn't a huge fan of Google TV, Roku and many other streaming options we tried a couple years ago, but this will give us time to prepare and move off of Tivo. Heck, I've got two Premieres and two 1TB HD Expanders sitting in the closet....may just put one of those back into action. I just hate calling Suddenlink to activate a cablecard in a new devices...it's always a fiasco. Cheers!


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## DaveB673 (Jan 1, 2020)

riffjim4069 said:


> Thanks, I'm going to trash the Bolt+ and take advantage of the $199 EDGE w/Lifetime transfer, or go with Weaknees Roamio Pro. I figure Tivo is good for 2-years of support--since they're still selling new boxes--before they pull-the-plug on the consumer market. I wasn't a huge fan of Google TV, Roku and many other streaming options we tried a couple years ago, but this will give us time to prepare and move off of Tivo. Heck, I've got two Premieres and two 1TB HD Expanders sitting in the closet....may just put one of those back into action. I just hate calling Suddenlink to activate a cablecard in a new devices...it's always a fiasco. Cheers!


I was about to suggest you try standing the Bolt on it's end. When I did that to mine, it ran 10 degrees cooler. I was a bit surprised it made that much difference. The Edge deal sounds pretty good...
As for streaming sticks, I briefly tried an Amazon FireTV thing but didn't care much for it. Much prefer the Roku to that. Also tried an Android TV box; absolutely my last choice.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

DaveB673 said:


> I was about to suggest you try standing the Bolt on it's end. When I did that to mine, it ran 10 degrees cooler. I was a bit surprised it made that much difference. The Edge deal sounds pretty good...
> As for streaming sticks, I briefly tried an Amazon FireTV thing but didn't care much for it. Much prefer the Roku to that. Also tried an Android TV box; absolutely my last choice.


I'm liking the Fire TV more and more because it supports more of the apps than most now that it supports Vudu, Plex and Apple TV.


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## jilter (Oct 4, 2002)

riffjim4069 said:


> Thanks, I'm going to trash the Bolt+ and take advantage of the $199 EDGE w/Lifetime transfer, or go with Weaknees Roamio Pro.


 Can you show me where this offer is stated please?
I want to pull my hair out with my Roamio not being able to complete a download. Part of me knows I should brick it; part of me has so much Tivo loyalty ingrained in me- I can not let go.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

It could be my memory of my DirectTivo is faulty but I remember zero problems with it. I love my Bolt. It does exactly what I need it to do. I have a fan under it to keep it cooler and I have a timer on it that reboots it every morning at 4am. Maybe once every couple of weeks now I will go to watch something and it will flash snow on the screen every few minutes. I then reboot it and all is good. Could be a setting with regards to my tv, otherwise idk.


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