# Another open letter to Tivo (2010 version)



## hodgepodge (Oct 15, 2004)

Hey guys, Im hoping the folks at Tivo might read this and think about it a little.

After 9 years, eleven Tivo units and lots of good times with Tivo, I'm just about ready to throw in the towel and turn off my 4 current HD Tivo units for good. The sad thing is I'm not a disgruntled customer. I was an early adopter, a constant tinkerer/hacker, a Tivo Desktop user since it was released and have always loved Tivo. So why am I considering turning them all off?

3 reasons:

1. Tivo isn't keeping up with the times. 
2. Tivo is no longer a good value, and 
3. Tivo apparently would rather generate new business than make a modest effort to keep its existing, loyal customers happy.

These items are intertwined a little, so I'll try to make this as concise as I can. Forgive me if I drift.

*1. Tivo isn't keeping up.* 
I recently upgraded all of my TVs, A/V recievers and my theater projector to HD. I got Bluray for every room too. It wasn't cheap, but I didn't go overboard either. The thing is, almost every device I own now streams internet content, connects to netflix, plays Pandora, allows me to rent HD movies on-line with a click, etc. They are all network aware and several (like the Sony BDP-S570) have really nice interfaces and seem to add new services almost weekly. The TVs get programming automatically. Slingbox streams anything anywhere...for free once you buy the box.

Of course, I also bought another round of new HD Tivos. Four of them. What unique new services do the Tivos provide (besides Netflix, a couple of web downloads and...oh, You tube..)? Well....nothing really. Nada. Zip. No new streaming tools, no future upgrades, no new web enabled features. Just a bunch of catch up items that I can already do with my other devices. Even my $125 wireless HP printer has a web interface...My pioneer stereo does, too. Still have to hack a Tivo to get anything more than a "you are connected" page.

Have you noticed that HD actually makes new Tivos worse than they were before. I can't move as many TV shows between units or to a PC as I used to be able to because of the new copy protection rules. Transferring HD files is maddeningly slow. I used to move 4 or 5 shows to my notebook the night before a long business trip. Not anymore...takes too long on my wired house network. And of course, the HD content takes up a lot of space (6 gigs each), meaning that these new machines have less capacity than my previous SD versions. I SHOULD be getting all kinds of new features, not paying for the same stuff I got before from Tivo and get now for free from others. And, of course, Tivo still ties me exclusively to cable, which is an insanely expensive service that thankfully is almost obsolete in itself. (I switched from Satellite to cable to keep Tivo and go HD, so I will not be buying the new satellite Tivos when they come out.) ...on to the next topic.

*2. Tivo is no longer a good value.*
I'm sure you've heard of Total Cost of Ownership (TCO). I'm thinking Tivo must not want you to think about this. Tivo sells you a unit AND charges you a monthly subscription fee, but does not add any features to the existing unit you already paid for. All you get for your Tivo subscription is a program listing; No upgrades or new services to speak of. And as you know, that listing is available for free from a dozen other places on the web and for free on many web enabled TVs. Yes, season pass is cool and unique, but how much is it worth after 10 years?

So what has my TCO been so far for Tivo? About $7000 over 9 years for between 1 and 4 rooms! How much have YOU paid? Maybe you only have 1 Tivo and haven't thought of it this way. Trust me, you will at some point. In the nearly 10 years since my first Tivo, America has gone HD, TVs have gotten wall sized and media comes from many sources. Sadly, Tivo is still tied to cable and way behind on other digital content. The core business is still a DVR, a cable connection and a fee-paid directory service. How about some true innovation?

...sorry, we were talking value. When you buy cable or satellite, you get a single subscription. Sure, they rent you an additional device or two, but you don't BUY the equipment and then have to pay for it monthly as well. If you buy Pandora, Hulu Plus or iTunes you can use that one subscription on any equipment you own. That portability combined with the low price is what makes these services a good deal.

I pay about $50.00 a month for program listings for my four Tivos. That is about half as much as my cable bill including ALL premium channel content! What am I getting for that monthly Tivo fee? A program directory for each unit and the right to transfer a shrinking number TV shows between units. That's it? Does that sound like a value to you? I used to pay $6.95 a month for the multi-unit discount. That is now $10 a month. Lifetime subscriptions? Not when "life" is, what, maybe two years?

Oh, wait a minute. The new Premier units can be yours including service for $20 a month. Well, that might not be bad assuming you can drop down to the regular subsription rate after 2 years. But I already have a bunch of BRAND NEW HD Tivos so that option means nothing to me...bringing me to my last point.

*3. Tivo would rather generate new business than keep loyal customers. * 
I mentioned before that I have a bunch of new HD equipment. My Sony, Pioneer, Toshiba and LG equipment is all connected to the Internet and once in a while, a new service appears on one of my devices. Why do these companies simply add new services rather than try to sell you something new? Well, because they can...and because they do it to compete with other companies that are doing the same thing. What does it cost me? Nothing measurable. I pay for a unit once and there is no subsription fee (even for on-screen directory listings). Bravo for competition! With Tivo, a company that thinks it has NO competition, no new features come out on existing units. Instead, the new features come out on the next new model. Since I am paying for a subscription, shouldn't I be getting updates, too? Apparently, I am a bird in the hand to Tivo. They would much rather try to sell new features to new customers than make them available to existing ones. The idea that the best salesmen are existing happy customers has been forgotten by Tivo. Granted, there are limits to what you can do with an older CPU, but all of my less-than-one year old HD units should be capable of handling any of the new features they put in the Premier. Tivo to existing customers: Nope, sorry, can't have it. You'll need to fork out several hundred bucks for a new unit and continue to pay the same or a higher monthly subsription fee if you want anything more than what your current units provide. Gee thanks, Tivo. Way to keep me happy! You can bet I am no longer running out to tell people how great Tivo is.

Conclusion:
At the end of the day, I have to look at my TV habits and decide if it is worth keeping my 4 HD Tivos, or even one. I never watch TV when it is "aired" anymore. Instead, I watch things when I want to and have time. Between Tivo and Comcast, I pay about $180 a month to stay connected to cable television. All of my Bluray players connect to streaming services that ALMOST eliminate the need to have cable at all. Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, Qriocity (Sony), iTunes and other services work really well and are device independent. These services all charge a single subsription fee or a per-download or per stream fee which means I can use them while travelling, too. I can buy a lot of shows and services on-line for that $180.00 a month.

So, Tivo, I've paid you about $3500 for Tivo units and about $3500 in subscription services since I bought my first Tivo nearly a decade ago. For the moment I am still paying $50 a month for Tivo program listing subscriptions. I'm not sure you've heard, but times are tough! What, exactly have you done for ME lately and what are you willing to do to keep me as a customer? Be sure to let me know soon as I'm really starting to like the idea of no cable or satellite at all. After all, the concept of media indepent TV is no more advanced today than the concept of a user friendly DVR was a decade or so ago....or have you forgotten what it was like to be on the leading edge?

Thanks for reading!

Scott Hodges


----------



## Robbdoe1 (Dec 29, 2008)

Anyone else notice we get about 1 of these a week or so? I hope someone at Tivo is paying attention.

Robb


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I agree that Tivo is barely hanging on.


And in your case, cheaper solutions for watching recordings in 4 rooms exist.

For example, FIOS charges you $20 for their MRV DVR. But after that it is only $10/month for each HD box as that's all you need in order to watch a streamed show.

So you'd pay $50/month to rent 3 HD boxes and a MRV DVR.

IF you have Tivo and FIOS then you're paying $16/month just for cable cards. Never mind the cost of the 4 Tivos and montly rental charges for all 4.

But I was able to get a Premiere for $150 from EE as detailed in the Premiere Thread and $200 for lifetime on it. 

I really was going to give up on Tivo until that deal. FIOS DVR was free for 6 months and still is and it works good enough. Really biggest knock was only 160gb hard drive space and that's on their MRV DVR.

If that deal hadn't come along or if FIOS had a 320gb hard drive at least then I may not have went back to Tivo.

And actually don't know how long I'll stay. 

Wife is liking Netflix so much lately she hasn't watched cable TV in months.


----------



## randalcormier (Feb 17, 2009)

I have Three series 2 Tivos with life time service, one is a Humax DVD Tivo. I have one dual tuner, HD, 1 TB hard drive, Series 3 with life time service in the HD TV. My Samsung BD 1600 Blu Ray Player picks up Blockbuster, You Tube, Netflix and YES PANDORA for the price of a 100.00 (on sale at Best Buy). Lets add me up, 4 x $299.00 lifetime service and 4 TIVO units @ $299.00 average price each equals $2,400.00 TIVO investment. Now Tivo wants me buy another unit to get Pandora and HULU! Come on TIVO get with the times and follow the Blu Ray market!

BUT WAIT THERE IS MORE! This month they will launch Google TV with a Blue Ray player from Sony. Wait till the apps it the fan then! 

Randy


----------



## aadam101 (Jul 15, 2002)

Ita!


----------



## smbaker (May 24, 2003)

hodgepodge said:


> So what has my TCO been so far for Tivo? About $7000 over 9 years for between 1 and 4 rooms!


Re figure your TCO using product lifetime subscriptions instead. Personally I don't intend to ever buy another monthly leased Tivo again. Selling the hardware and leasing the software (or whatever nonsense is used to justify the excessive monthly fee) does not make sense.

Tivo will succeed as long as they sell a quality product at a competitive price. There's two key aspects to that: 1) quality product and 2) competitive price. Right now they're failing at the former -- Tivo has been doing too much coasting, the Premiere is too little too late, giving the competition a huge opportunity to innovate in their place. For example, where is streaming? Where is a true whole home / multiroom solution? Why, after months, is the HDUI on the Premiere still incomplete? Why is the second core still not enabled?

If they want to charge a premium price and market themselves as a premium DVR, then they need to have the feature set to back it up. Continued "coasting" just isn't going to carry the company much longer.

I say this as a 10+ year (original philips 1999 S1) customer and shareholder myself, who would rather see the product succeed than see it fail.


----------



## TooMuchTime (Jun 29, 2008)

> Tivo has been doing too much coasting...


You think TiVo would check fairly recent history. Wordstar was the word processor of choice in the early 1980s. They started to coast and WordPerfect took over. When WordPerfect started to coast, Microsoft Word shot right by them. I understand the whole development cost thing but you have to keep moving.

As for me, I had TiVo and Comcast, dumped it for Uverse, and now I'm back to TiVo and Comcast. Uverse was fine and I was happy with the content and the features. However, the only reason I am with TiVo again is that I can copy recorded content to a PC on my network. I use that as part of my video/DVD library. Uverse does not allow for that. The Uverse operating software is from Microsoft so Digital Rights Management is bordering on fascism. If Uverse allowed me to copy recorded content to a PC, I would still be with Uverse.

Don't know where I'll go if TiVo buys the farm.


----------

