# Getting Lifetime Discounts



## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

What is the best strategy to end up getting an All In discount?

I am about to receive one of the 1tb bolts with the first year free and am tryignt of igure out the ebst timing to get a lifetime discount out of them

They are VERY overpriced. I used that discount code years ago on my xl4 to get it for $400 and that was STILL too much, having to pay close to $1000 back then. And if they offer it to me on this one for $400, I would still turn it down, as the first year is a $150 value, so I would really still have $550 invested.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

For my provider, DVRs are $24/$32 per month depending on the model (2/6 tuner). CableCards are $5 per month. That means the cost difference is $19/$27 per month (other provider in my area is $19.5/$26.5). A 1TB Bolt with All-in is $850 direct from TiVo (without any discounts applied, $300 for box $550 for All-in). That means that the payback time is 45/32 months. Seems like a reasonable time for an investment. Although with the possibility of breaking the box, or selling the box the end, and other things taken into account, it is probably a wash monetarily.

Now that we have established that it isn't overpriced (features and prices being roughly equivalent). Maybe it is more than you want to spend. To that I say go for trying to negotiate some price. If they don't offer you anything that makes you happen then return the box and either keep your XL4 or go with your provider's box. Another thing that might ease some of your money pain is to sell the XL4. I don't know if they are worth a whole lot, but you could probably get a couple of hundred for it.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

TiVo often will look at your number of TiVo boxes over time, your years of paid subscription(s), and similar other factors which indicate how embedded (and profitable) a TiVo customer you are. Speak with someone at TiVo live (on the phone), chat him or her up, and emphasize those factors. Being pleasant and nice, and non-derogatory, can be a good thing. It also can help to note that you are ready to clinch a deal right then if you can get an acceptable/nice term. And I have read that mentioning that you might just have to leave the TiVo ecosphere instead can lead to a TiVo rep. doing what he or she can.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

socrplyr, it is overpriced. Even at your listed rates, you'd take years to break even and then a newer model would be out. Plus they're getting out of having to support the device, as well.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

somename said:


> What is the best strategy to end up getting an All In discount?
> 
> I am about to receive one of the 1tb bolts with the first year free and am tryignt of igure out the ebst timing to get a lifetime discount out of them
> 
> They are VERY overpriced. I used that discount code years ago on my xl4 to get it for $400 and that was STILL too much, having to pay close to $1000 back then. And if they offer it to me on this one for $400, I would still turn it down, as the first year is a $150 value, so I would really still have $550 invested.


you would need to have been paying monthly for awhile to have them even consider a reduced all in price with the first year being included I don't think they will offer discount right offer the year is up.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

somename said:


> socrplyr, it is overpriced. Even at your listed rates, you'd take years to break even and then a newer model would be out. Plus they're getting out of having to support the device, as well.


Break even compared with a Tivo default, yes, but the break even compared with the cableco is still there.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

I agree that Lifetime is now massively overpriced. Ah, the days of a $300 Lifetime on a new product. 

When I bought my Bolt it was $600 for a Lifetime, so I have just hung with the annual. But my year is coming up and I need to decide what to do in a couple of months. Last I saw, Lifetime would still be $550 and that's just too high.

If there is a way to get a better price on a fairly new one I'd like to hear it, too. When I replaced my Series 2 units for Premieres the guy I was talking to at Tivo offered me the $100 Lifetime on one of my Series 2 machines. His sales point was that I could use it for storage. Alas, you can't use that machine for HD content, so I paid the $100 for nothing. I called and talked to somebody about that, because I was sold a bill of goods, but it was basically 'too bad, so sad'. It still sits somewhere upstairs in my office in a box because it's worthless.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

somename said:


> socrplyr, it is overpriced. Even at your listed rates, you'd take years to break even and then a newer model would be out. Plus they're getting out of having to support the device, as well.


I think you are getting overpriced confused here. It is really hard to call something overpriced when there really isn't anything cheaper out there. 3-4 years is a reasonable return time for an investment of this type (basically you expect it to last that long). If you are worried about getting the newer box when that comes out, then sell the old one. It has residual value. There are pros and cons to purchasing vs leasing. It is pretty similar to buying a house vs renting. By buying you take on additional risks, maintenance, and responsibilities. If all goes right you can save a bunch of money by staying in it past when it is paid off. If the house no longer meets your needs, you can sell it and buy one that does. Renting is easier and a lot of things are taken care of for you. It also costs less monthly, but at the end of your lease, you have no residual value.

I do like my Tivo and I find it a great deal, but not because of the price vs the cable company's box. I have saved a ton of money over the years, because I was able to seamlessly switch providers. By swapping back and forth I have saved ~$500 per year. I wouldn't be so willing if I would lose all my recording or have to learn a new system constantly.

You were willing to pay ~$1000 for your XL4, but now you aren't willing to pay $850 for a Bolt (which does more). It is several years later, the price has gone down by roughly $200 when you account for inflation. You can sell your XL4 for a decent amount to help pay for the Bolt as well.

All that being said. Call them up and see what they will do for you. Hopefully they give you a deal. I personally wouldn't expect to pay less than $750 total for the box with All-in. They may not give you any deal and you wind up paying $850 total. If so, then you have a choice to make whether it is worth it to you. If it isn't return during the return period.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

sharkster said:


> I agree that Lifetime is now massively overpriced. Ah, the days of a $300 Lifetime on a new product.
> 
> When I bought my Bolt it was $600 for a Lifetime, so I have just hung with the annual. But my year is coming up and I need to decide what to do in a couple of months. Last I saw, Lifetime would still be $550 and that's just too high.


You have to remember that TiVo has reduced the box cost to offset the All-in cost increases. I agree that they haven't done a great job for those who don't choose All-in when the box is purchased. I think they could do something giving some credit for the number of paid years, but they don't seem to do that directly. In then end, I think it only makes sens to get All-in when purchasing a new box, not after the fact. Unless, of course, you happen to be offered a good deal when you call in.


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## sharkster (Jul 3, 2004)

socrplyr said:


> You have to remember that TiVo has reduced the box cost to offset the All-in cost increases. I agree that they haven't done a great job for those who don't choose All-in when the box is purchased. I think they could do something giving some credit for the number of paid years, but they don't seem to do that directly. In then end, I think it only makes sens to get All-in when purchasing a new box, not after the fact. Unless, of course, you happen to be offered a good deal when you call in.


Yeah, that's a good point. I don't remember now what I paid for my Bolt, with one-year, last year but I do recall that it was not much AT ALL. I would have gotten the Lifetime at that time but $600 just sounded too much - maybe if it included the box.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

socrplyr, to be fair, you have to include cost of the TiVo in your comparison vs. the rental fees from the cable company. You're not spending $550 vs. those fees, you're spending a whopping $1,050, if you get the latest TiVo model.

So at your example rate above it would take you 4 years to break even vs. the cable company charges. And that's requiring you to pay that huge chunk all at once, instead of spreading it out over 4 years, which would not even be noticeable that you're paying the money.

And simply look on ebay at prices for tivos with lifetime on models from 4 years ago to see that you would not get much back if you were to wait that long. That would be like a series 3! Even some of the series 4 ones are going for $200-$300 on there and that's it.

I was out around $1000 for an xl4 with lifetime a few years ago and I think when I sold it I got $400 or less back, so for 1 year of use I wasted $500-$600.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

somename said:


> And simply look on ebay at prices for tivos with lifetime on models from 4 years ago to see that you would not get much back if you were to wait that long. That would be like a series 3! Even some of the series 4 ones are going for $200-$300 on there and that's it.
> 
> I was out around $1000 for an xl4 with lifetime a few years ago and I think when I sold it I got $400 or less back, so for 1 year of use I wasted $500-$600.


Your time frames are pretty far off. The Premiere (S4) was released in April 2010 so the latest S3/HD would be almost 7 years old at this point (mine are 10 years old). The Roamio (S5) was released in August 2013 so it's almost 3 1/2 years old (coming up on that 4 years you mention!).

Why did you only keep the XL4 for only a year? We paid $1000 for each of our S3 OLED ($800 with $199 lifetime transfer from our S1's) and I'm happy as we got 10 years of use out of them.

Scott


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Back in 2014 I bought a Roamio Plus and 2 minis for a total of 582.42 and at that time added lifetime ($400) with a code to the Roamio for a total of $982.42. The items were purchased on Amazon. Verizon had there comparable VMS system (similar to Tivo) the VMS service was $22, and the DVR itself and each small satellite box, were $12 each. The total rental for comparable Verizon equipment was $58 per month. Even removing the $5 cable card rental, we are talking a savings of $53 a month with the Tivos. The payback for my equipment was a little over 18 months, not 36 or 48. 
You do have to know how to shop and take advantage of good deals when you see them. Tivo made a conscious move to discourage LTS/All in by substantially raising the price. Frankly I think it was a dumb move especially with the buggie Bolt and this Rovi fiasco. 
Right now recently sold Roamio Plus units with LTS have gone for $500+ and minis are around $70 each. The smart value purchase right now is on these older Roamio series units with lifetime. These units are pretty reliable and have very good payoff times. The real value in the Tivos are by adding minis to the package because they are relatively cheap compared to renting cable company boxes and often pay for themselves in one year.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

And, of course, the sweet spot still remains as the Roamio OTA with its included lifetime subscription, if one does OTA.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

somename said:


> socrplyr, to be fair, you have to include cost of the TiVo in your comparison vs. the rental fees from the cable company. You're not spending $550 vs. those fees, you're spending a whopping $1,050, if you get the latest TiVo model.
> 
> So at your example rate above it would take you 4 years to break even vs. the cable company charges. And that's requiring you to pay that huge chunk all at once, instead of spreading it out over 4 years, which would not even be noticeable that you're paying the money.
> 
> ...


I used the 1TB model, since that is what the OP said they had purchased. It is the appropriate comparable for them. An XL4 seems to be selling for between $250-$350 on eBay recently. After eBay fees, that is $200 on the low end. Not too bad for a 4+ year old model. Right now you should be able to bank (after fees, shipping, etc.) $400 for a Roamio Plus with All-in. Again, I just looked up sold ones in the last month on eBay.

Your comment about the not noticing the cable box payment is a good one. I don't operate that way. If I have any recurring purchase of more than $10 a month ($100 a year), I evaluate it. This isn't just for things you get billed for, but grocery and household purchases as well. I look at and and make sure it is necessary/wanted and if there is a cheaper alternative. I also such that if I can't pay for something up-front, I really question whether I should be getting it. I encourage anyone to evaluate their own finances in the same way. You might find that you can save $1000 a year with little change in lifestyle. For example, it drives me nuts when some of my family doesn't bother to make the yearly call to the cable company to save $30/$40/$50 a month. I don't however expect all to operate that way.

In general, a Tivo is not an amazing deal compared to a cable company's box, when it comes to direct cash outlay. It isn't really any more expensive on average either.

While I agree that it doesn't always work out in your favor (some investments do and some don't), you did choose to sell yours when you chose to sell it. You could have kept it and still probably be using it today. I presume you upgraded due to some value that the newer model had for you. Most of my family are still on TivoHDs. Why? They are paid off and they fit their needs. I did upgrade storage on a couple of them, so we did put some extra money into them. I currently am using a Roamio Pro. That I did overpay for, as I could have upgraded a Plus for $100 less (and I probably didn't even need the upgrade). That was a choice I made at the time.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

HerronScott said:


> Why did you only keep the XL4 for only a year?
> 
> Scott


Because I was constantly having it not record shows it was set to record. Probably because Comcast's internet service is pathetic and drops out.

So I moved my recordings to my computer, sold the TiVo, moved back to directv and saved a lot of money. And lost all of my recordings due to a mishap. 

However, NOW directv refused to lower my $100 bill for their next to lowest tv package, and with Comcast I am only out $20-$30 above what I was already paying them for internet.

So bottom line, it's to save money. So to then throw out $550 would defeat the purpose. Plus it would mean I wasted money getting a TiVo with 1 year on it if I am going to still spend the full $550. it would be like I paid for a wasted year, as I could have saved probably $130 or so by getting one without the year included.



socrplyr said:


> In general, a Tivo is not an amazing deal compared to a cable company's box, when it comes to direct cash outlay. *It isn't really any more expensive on average either.*


But it's "is" more expensive, on average, unless you're mighty sure you're going to use it for 4 years. If you do, well by the time 4 years comes along you don't notice you even saved anything, and for the first day of payment, you had to feel in the hole a large sum of money.


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

I can't imagine using a TiVo for less than four years. Maybe we're just lucky. 

We currently have three And I'd have to look at my records but I think these are tivos number 7-8-9 (and every one has had lifetime). But now I want to go through my records and check for sure as I'm curious how many we've had in the last 16 years.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

fcfc2 said:


> Back in 2014 I bought a Roamio Plus and 2 minis for a total of 582.42 and at that time added lifetime ($400) with a code to the Roamio for a total of $982.42. The items were purchased on Amazon. Verizon had there comparable VMS system (similar to Tivo) the VMS service was $22, and the DVR itself and each small satellite box, were $12 each. The total rental for comparable Verizon equipment was $58 per month. Even removing the $5 cable card rental, we are talking a savings of $53 a month with the Tivos. The payback for my equipment was a little over 18 months, not 36 or 48.
> You do have to know how to shop and take advantage of good deals when you see them. Tivo made a conscious move to discourage LTS/All in by substantially raising the price. Frankly I think it was a dumb move especially with the buggie Bolt and this Rovi fiasco.
> Right now recently sold Roamio Plus units with LTS have gone for $500+ and minis are around $70 each. The smart value purchase right now is on these older Roamio series units with lifetime. These units are pretty reliable and have very good payoff times. The real value in the Tivos are by adding minis to the package because they are relatively cheap compared to renting cable company boxes and often pay for themselves in one year.


Glad to hear the bolt is buggy.... Another reason I got tired of the xl4. it was buggy. So now I am out a lot of money to have more headaches, it sounds like.

Also, your example is not the same, at all, as mine, because had I not bought this, I would be using ONLY 1 dvr, which is $10 per month. I also took hd off because I "think" my area still lets me get hd channels with TiVo, without the hd fee to Comcast. But if I am wrong, then that's only $10 I save each month instead of $20.

But if I DO save that $20, well I spent almost $300 for this bolt, due to the year included. If I dumbly wait out that year and then add lifetime for the full $550, I am out $850, which takes MORE than 4 years to break even on, or would take a whopping EIGHT years to break even on, if I still have to pay Comcast the hd fee.

Plus I might as well have bought a TiVo bolt with no year included if I a going to turn right back around and pay them $550 full.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

sushikitten said:


> I can't imagine using a TiVo for less than four years. Maybe we're just lucky.
> 
> We currently have three And I'd have to look at my records but I think these are tivos number 7-8-9 (and every one has had lifetime). But now I want to go through my records and check for sure as I'm curious how many we've had in the last 16 years.


As long as I don't switch back to satellite, I would use it 4+ years. Or unless I decide to switch to only OTA, but of course I got a 1tb bolt, which could be used for OTA.

ps I know technically you can't record from cable AND OTA at once, but is it easy to switch between the two modes and I wouldn't lose recordings to do so?


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

somename said:


> Also, your example is not the same, at all, as mine, because had I not bought this, I would be using ONLY 1 dvr, which is $10 per month. I also took hd off because I "think" my area still lets me get hd channels with TiVo, without the hd fee to Comcast. But if I am wrong, then that's only $10 I save each month instead of $20.


You should not need the HD technology fee so yes it should be $19.95 plus the $2.50 COE credit you'll receive so you should save $22.45 per month. That takes you down to a total of 3 years 2 months total to break even if you buy lifetime after the first year.

You could go ahead and pay for another year and then hope that after 2 years that TiVo may offer you a discount on lifetime at that point. I believe a number of Roamio owners have gotten a discount after 2 years of annual/monthly fees.

Scott


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

HerronScott said:


> You should not need the HD technology fee so yes it should be $19.95 plus the $2.50 COE credit you'll receive so you should save $22.45 per month. That takes you down to a total of 3 years 2 months total to break even if you buy lifetime after the first year.
> 
> You could go ahead and pay for another year and then hope that after 2 years that TiVo may offer you a discount on lifetime at that point. I believe a number of Roamio owners have gotten a discount after 2 years of annual/monthly fees.
> 
> Scott


I'm not even 100% clear if the previous owner of this TiVo only activated the year that came with it or paid for a year himself. I figured the former, since he would have simply asked for a refund, I would imagine, if he hd paid for the year himself.

Bu, anyway, so what I wish would happen is them offer me the lifetime now for $400, since it ahs almost a full $150 year on it. But of course they won't and as incompetent as this woman seemed on the phone, I wouldn't be surprised if she put my credit card on the other guy's account.

She CLAIMED, though, "since it's been less than 30 days since activated", it could be switched from yearly to lifetime. But 1. maybe she doesn't know he didn't pay for the first year and 2. I bet she'd ridiculously refund HIS card for the yea, if he did pay for it, and charge me the $550 plus me be out the elevated cost of the TiVo due to it coming with that 1 year.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

ajwees41 said:


> you would need to have been paying monthly for awhile to have them even consider a reduced all in price with the first year being included I don't think they will offer discount right offer the year is up.


First year may be included but you really are paying for it. It's not a freebie or discounted. Not really.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

JACKASTOR said:


> First year may be included but you really are paying for it. It's not a freebie or discounted. Not really.


Exactly. I could have, at the very least, saved $100 by getting a newer model without a year.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

JACKASTOR said:


> First year may be included but you really are paying for it. It's not a freebie or discounted. Not really.


I bet TiVo doesn't see it as being paid just my opinion and it usually takes 2 or more years of paying before discounts


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

ajwees41 said:


> I bet TiVo doesn't see it as being paid just my opinion and it usually takes 2 or more years of paying before discounts


I'm sure they don't, either. But the reality is currently anyone having one with a free year is mighty likely to have spent more for it, to get that one year, and TiVo is going to run customers off if they then want $550 more for lifetime afterwards.

That's why I feel like I almost have no choice but stay on yearly from now on. And so then if I DO keep it 4+ years, I am going to be losing money.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

ajwees41 said:


> I bet TiVo doesn't see it as being paid just my opinion and it usually takes 2 or more years of paying before discounts


I recall a user post here recounting that a customer rep., in a call, said that he couldn't offer any deals until after a year of payments.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> I recall a user post here recounting that a customer rep., in a call, said that he couldn't offer any deals until after a year of payments.


Only way that would help me is if they knock the price for all in all the way down to $199, after I buy a year myself. And why would they lower it that much, when the yearly is barely less? So I am probably screwed.

I spent less than $300 and it's a 1 TB one, so it was a good deal if I don't want lifetime. Otherwise, it's no deal at all if I do.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

socrplyr said:


> Now that we have established that it isn't overpriced (features and prices being roughly equivalent). .


We have established nothing of the sort. Currently Fios 10 tuner boxes exceed the number of tuners Tivo offers in anything. And, Verizon uses Gracenote/TMS - which is vastly superior to the utter crap Tivo is using now.

While I have 2 Roamio Pros, 4 minis, and an HD (all on Lifetime) I also have a Fios DVR. While the Tivo setups have been horribly unreliable with respect to scheduling of recordings and correct guide data, that old 2 tuner Fios DVR has been right - every time.

So, no, we have not established that it isn't overpriced.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

somename said:


> Only way that would help me is if they knock the price for all in all the way down to $199, after I buy a year myself. And why would they lower it that much, when the yearly is barely less? So I am probably screwed.
> 
> I spent less than $300 and it's a 1 TB one, so it was a good deal if I don't want lifetime. Otherwise, it's no deal at all if I do.


I wasn't addressing your situation, just the earlier comment that 2 or more years of paying would be needed, to get a TiVo deal. And it seems to me that _any_ deal would be welcome.


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## gthassell (Apr 22, 2003)

The only other solution - which I have used for my past three boxes - and a few others ebay'd - is to find the extremely rare S1 w/ Lifteime activated prior to Jan 21 2000. Because of the original wording of the contract, those are transferable ONCE to a new unit - with the bonus of keeping the original activation date, so it will appear as if you have a time travelling Roamio, Bolt, or Bolt+. (Yes, my Roamio Pro shows as activated since 12/11/1999, and the Bolt+ since 10/18/1999). I think I paid on average $70 for each of the S1 units used to transfer service on those two.... but good luck finding one on eBay. If you do, be sure to check with TiVo first before purchasing it, and don't even bother if the TSN does not start with 000-. Lastly, if the eBay pics show the back panel, the 6 digit code 00-00-00 in the lower left corner I believe, is the manufacturer date, so if you see a date after 01-20-2000, you can skip that one as well.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

wmhjr said:


> We have established nothing of the sort. Currently Fios 10 tuner boxes exceed the number of tuners Tivo offers in anything. And, Verizon uses Gracenote/TMS - which is vastly superior to the utter crap Tivo is using now.
> 
> While I have 2 Roamio Pros, 4 minis, and an HD (all on Lifetime) I also have a Fios DVR. While the Tivo setups have been horribly unreliable with respect to scheduling of recordings and correct guide data, that old 2 tuner Fios DVR has been right - every time.
> 
> So, no, we have not established that it isn't overpriced.


Glad tos ee I'm not the only one who had unreliable recording. Again, that is a big reason I sold my TiVo and went to directv. But now I needed to save money, so I had no choice but go back to cable.

I wish FIOS was in my area. I always had good service with Verizon for the phone. Comcast's dvr won't let you watch recordings if the internet is down! That is the main reason I am going with TiVo.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> I wasn't addressing your situation, just the earlier comment that 2 or more years of paying would be needed, to get a TiVo deal. And it seems to me that _any_ deal would be welcome.


I know. But it made me think of my situation and how it sucks for me.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> We have established nothing of the sort. Currently Fios 10 tuner boxes exceed the number of tuners Tivo offers in anything. And, Verizon uses Gracenote/TMS - which is vastly superior to the utter crap Tivo is using now.


FIOS 10-tuner DVR? I hadn't heard about that and when I tried to do a search I couldn't find anything (kept coming up with old articles on them introducing a 6-tuner DVR). You have a model number or link to information on this?

Scott


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Verizon Fios Quantum TV. Actually 12 tuners available. Typo on my part.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Verizon Fios® TV | 877-688-2032 | Custom TV Plans


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> Verizon Fios Quantum TV. Actually 12 tuners available. Typo on my part.





wmhjr said:


> Verizon Fios® TV | 877-688-2032 | Custom TV Plans


I finally read the Dave Zatz article on the 6-tuner DVR and it looks like they don't have a 12-tuner DVR but you can get 2 of the 6-tuner ones that apparently work together unlike TiVo's ("Yet, by bundling two units for a reasonable $32/mo, the networked solution seamlessly expands to 12 tuners housing 2 terabytes of recording storage.")

http://zatznotfunny.com/2014-04/verizon-fios-6-tuner-quantum-tv-dvr-extenders-arrive/

I couldn't find any details on the DVR on the FIOS website that you linked. I find their website to be horrible.

Scott


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

I couldn't find details either, however it explicitly stated recording 12 things at once, so.... I don't care if their product is a combined 2 unit thing or a single one unit. Either way, based on the Zatz article, if they work together to have one UI, that part is superior to Tivo right now. Today, I have two Roamio Pros, and I'm constantly switching back and forth to manage 1Ps, etc. No way to view then in a unified manner.

I also don't like the Verizon site. However, I also detest the Tivo site. So I guess that's kind of parity. 

Remember - for me this is purely a consumer entertainment device. I really don't want to think about what chipset, firmware, etc - or if it's one physical box or two. I just want the functions and features that are important to me, and I want them to work. Unfortunately, given the ongoing BSCs due to Tivo horrible architecture with poor dependency on hosted services for local operation, and the degradation in data/metadata, Tivo is no longer filling those requirements.


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## jhankins (Nov 3, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> Unfortunately, given the ongoing BSCs due to Tivo horrible architecture with poor dependency on hosted services for local operation, and the degradation in data/metadata, Tivo is no longer filling those requirements.


What's a BSC? Wikipedia wasn't much help. I'm assuming it's not binary symmetric channel.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jhankins said:


> What's a BSC? Wikipedia wasn't much help. I'm assuming it's not binary symmetric channel.


Blue Spinning Circle. It's the TiVo way of saying wait...wait...wait... 

Be patient. You will see one someday.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Blue Spinning Circle. It's the TiVo way of saying wait...wait...wait...
> 
> Be patient. You will see one someday.


I'm hoping things might be better here since images now seem to be coming from Akamai. It was never an issue for me except for the couple of general "outages" that we saw so I'm probably not a good person to verify if it's any better now.

Scott


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

Had them last night so I have little hope. The core architecture design is fundamentally flawed regardless of who is hosting.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> Had them last night so I have little hope. The core architecture design is fundamentally flawed regardless of who is hosting.


Interesting since we never see them (except for those 2 major incidents they had).

Scott


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> Interesting since we never see them (except for those 2 major incidents they had).
> 
> Scott


That is simply astounding.

Last night they weren't terrible. Just annoying. Probably about 5-10 second delays at times. And more specifically, talking about core Tivo functionality. Not streaming, Amazon, Netflix, etc.

To me it's been very consistently inconsistent. Performance wise. Or, better put - I've still not seen the slightest reason for optimism. Looking at core issues in general, to me it seems as though things continue to decline - not improve.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

wmhjr said:


> That is simply astounding.
> 
> Last night they weren't terrible. Just annoying. Probably about 5-10 second delays at times. And more specifically, talking about core Tivo functionality. Not streaming, Amazon, Netflix, etc.
> 
> To me it's been very consistently inconsistent. Performance wise. Or, better put - I've still not seen the slightest reason for optimism. Looking at core issues in general, to me it seems as though things continue to decline - not improve.


I don't have them much either, except for the documented Tivo server outages. Granted my Roamio has been a bit slower than usual in the last few months, it hasn't been too bad. The Tivo has still been very solid though it would be nice if they can finally fix that annoying Dolby Digital loss issue. That one drives me crazy.

The best part is that over the 3.5 years I've had the Roamio I've saved a boatload of money vs. the Fios DVR, and that's with paying nearly full cost due to buying shortly after release.


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## wmhjr (Dec 2, 2007)

So my answer for that is that first of all, the "documented outages" (I don't think it's accurate to call them server outages" are proof enough of incredibly poor architecture. Bad design. Period. But we've beaten that to death. I don't have them all the time either. But I'd say there isn't a week that goes by that I don't experience them at least a little - and we should NEVER experience them - period. Ever. Not for core Tivo functionality. Absolutely never, ever ever. 

That being said, while that's enough for me to really not be terrifically happy with Tivo, the camel back breaking straw is the data. Because that's just constant. There is not a single minute of a single day that I can't relatively quickly find guide data errors. Bad, outdated, sometimes never populated, missing - all kinds of errors that make the core functionality of the Tivo just plain broken IMHO. The Tivo is only as good as its core functions, which depend on accurate data. And - due to the poor architecture, connectivity with Tivo hosting services (IP).


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

wmhjr said:


> That is simply astounding.
> 
> Last night they weren't terrible. Just annoying. Probably about 5-10 second delays at times. And more specifically, talking about core Tivo functionality. Not streaming, Amazon, Netflix, etc.


Nothing special here with our setup - Roamio Pro with Comcast standard Performance Internet service (25Mbps/5Mbps) so can't really explain why we wouldn't seem them since other people obviously have an issue. Small town of 24,000 so no issues with Internet slowdowns due to shared resources as some people mention in larger cities with cable Internet service.

I haven't seen any since that last incident in early January.

Scott


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Except for one or two major outages the blue spinning circle (BSC) issue has always been unit specific with some people having many more issues than others. I haven't had the BSC issue in a long time certainly not in the last few weeks.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

I only see the BSC on my Roamio during those major outages or when my internet connection is really bad. I often go three or four months without ever seeing a BSC.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

Speaking of audio... out of nowhere now the TiVo sound effects can be heard while it says the current program's audio is dolby. I had to go into the menu and turn off sound effects. No clue why it started letting them be heard.

As I said in another thread, I am trying to decide whether picture quality is better with directv or Comcast, then I'll know whether or not to sell the TiVo.

Comcast offered me a good deal on blast and digital preferred tv, but directv lists me as under a contract they never told me I was agreeing to in order to get new discounts.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

You might try turning the sound effects back on, setting Audio to PCM, going to a show, and then going back to Audio and setting back to Dolby--that may re-set and fix things. 

I have had the reverse: I'm set to PCM with sound effects on, and every now-and-again, the sound effects will turn off. To start them up again, I switch to Dolby under the Audio settings, go to a show, and the sound effects are there (even though they shouldn't be, with Dolby)--go back to Audio and set back to PCM, and everything is back to normal for me. Wonky.


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## somename (Jan 20, 2017)

Thanks. Yeah I remember from my last TiVo there would be some weird issues.

Honestly, the one thing I own that has the most annoying glitches is my oppo 103d player. And they pretty much say it's normal... Mostly locking up with various devices connected to its hdmi IN ports. So the tivos are bug-free compared to oppo blu-ray players...


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