# Is the Writing on the Wall?



## Nero2 (Aug 22, 2005)

New (transferred) subscriptions aren&#8217;t working, suggestions aren&#8217;t working &#8211; seemingly no meaningful responses from Tivo Inc to address these issues. Our machines are all getting close to eight years old. Limited income stream from the UK, just the few (20,000?) still on &#163;10/month.

Is this all indicative of the UK service being pulled sometime soon?

Any thoughts?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

We're being left to die a slow lingering death.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Or, the changes they're making to the server side code to support the new Series 3 UK machines are causing a few temporary problems for older machines....

Depends on how you look at it 

TiVo are still selling new lifetime subs, the data is still being provided, they have expanded to Australia with a freeview machine, the TiVo "reference" machine has SCART sockets, they have plans for further international expansion...


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Were all doomed...not. I'm not worried ymmv


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I'd be surprised if there are 5,000 still in use.

But with regular rumours of some kind of UK return, it would be the end of any such suggestion if they pulled the plug now. Should that possibility disappear, that's when the end will be nigh.


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## Glen (May 9, 2004)

dunno whats going on, but if they decided to release a TiVo unit that didnt supported sky i'd be bitterly disappointed.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Well, I'm now watching 90&#37; + of my TV on my Sky HD now because the picture quality is so much better. I'd still hate to see Tivo stop working as I still catch gems that it records when thickie Sky HD didn't and Sky still don't provide any recordings whatsoever from radio channels.

The EPG is still lousy on Sky and I can't even set up recordings properly when both tuners are in use. I still regularly use TiVo's EPG service to set up recordings on my Sky HD box because the search facilities are terrible on Sky.

But then there's the third tuner to record things when the other two tuners are busy. Tivo's regularly used for that.

Having said that - only today I was thinking of downgrading the Sky subs to let TiVo only record Sky Freeview. (-&#163;10 multiroom for TiVo and keep &#163;10 for Sky HD) It's a very slow decline but it's happening here 

I'd really like to see TiVo's return to the UK, but it's not going to be soon here in my corner of South Wales, unless there's a change of heart from Sky as we're going to be using flying cars and wearing silver suits when cable arrives down my road, and DTT/Freeview won't have the bandwidth to support enough HD channels in the near-mid future.

The new "other" Freesat (great marketing tool there - call your service the same as the competition have been marketing)... possibly, but without the subs channels, I'm not interested. For now - ITV HD is the only extra. No point.


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## ms21117 (Jul 26, 2005)

you are not alone..i think it's dying in the US too...they are totally unprepared for the change to digital in 2/2009, customer service sucks, lots of bugs, poor software upgrades....who ever the head dogs are need to step down and let someone else take over...better than a slow death......


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

A basic Freeview+ box is now less than &#163;100. It has better picture quality and more disc space than the original TiVo. The UIs on some of them (not the cheapest) knock TiVo into a cocked hat. Season passes and suggestions aren't quite there yet. But on some of the more expensive models you can program hacks, extract video, schedule via the web...

I want TiVo to come back - but if everyone is feeling the pinch, why would they pay more for a TV recorder than they need to?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

terryeden said:


> you can program hacks, extract video, schedule via the web...


Out of interest, which models are these, Terry?


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

ColinYounger said:


> Out of interest, which models are these, Terry?


The Humax PVR9200TS will let you copy shows to a USB disk.
The Topfields have a huge range of hacks - http://www.toppy.org.uk/ - including the ability to schedule from the web.

To name but a few. You can also build a MythTV box


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> Or, the changes they're making to the server side code to support the new Series 3 UK machines are causing a few temporary problems for older machines....


I think you'd really have to have your head stuck right down in the sand to believe that.



> TiVo are still selling new lifetime subs, the data is still being provided, they have expanded to Australia with a freeview machine, the TiVo "reference" machine has SCART sockets, they have plans for further international expansion...


Selling the subs maybe, but is anyone buying lifetime subs though? I can only think maybe the odd few monthly sub converting to lifetime but it's quite a gamble in my opinion. Even if they all buy lifetime subs, it's not really much money and it does mean the end of any more income which is even more incentive to stop the service.

SCART is on it's way out also. We need HDMI sockets. Most new kit has HDMI.

I'd love to not be pessimistic about it, but having backed numerous losers in my time, I can spot the signs when the time is up 

Even if I'm proved wrong, there's no chance TiVo will give me TiVo HD with support for Sky's service. Sky will never open up their platform to allow it. There are too many things I'd miss on Sky to move elsewhere, though Freesat is closest (and I'm never going back to Virgin/NTL-that-was). Can't see Freesat opening up to TiVo either. They've got their own PVR on the cards. Freeview just doesn't interest me. Doesn't help that I find most the terrestrial channels tedious.


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## Andy Leitch (Apr 30, 2005)

DeadKenny said:


> SCART is on it's way out also. We need HDMI sockets. Most new kit has HDMI.


SCART is not on its way out. It is a legacy connection just like composite and S-Video.

And we don't actually *need* HDMI....component is just as good. HDMI is only needed to enforce DRM.

Back OT....I just bought a Lifetime sub last week, although there's no update to my account in System settings yet...still says 3:Account in Good Standing. My monthly sub, (which I cancelled the DD to), is due on Monday...we shall see if I lose the service, if the US have shutdown all UK operations...but are still taking money. :down:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Andy Leitch said:


> Back OT...*.I just bought a Lifetime sub last week*, although there's no update to my account in System settings yet...still says 3:Account in Good Standing. My monthly sub, (which I cancelled the DD to), is due on Monday...we shall see if I lose the service, if the US have shutdown all UK operations...but are still taking money. :down:


Excuse me for asking but aren't you the fourm member who once used to have a signature at the end of each of your posts that said "Tivo is dead the future is *here*" (with the here being a link to the then embryonic Sky HD website).

It just seemed a trifle inconsistent to me that you would now have bought yourself another Tivo in view of your previous evangelical promotion of Sky HD?

Or am I confusing you with someone else?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Nero2 said:


> New (transferred) subscriptions arent working, suggestions arent working  seemingly no meaningful responses from Tivo Inc to address these issues. Our machines are all getting close to eight years old. Limited income stream from the UK, just the few (20,000?) still on £10/month.
> 
> Is this all indicative of the UK service being pulled sometime soon?


My Tivo is only just coming up to 6 years of use as are many others owned by forum members. I would typically expect a well made household electrical product to have at least a 10 year lifetime. Especially when it comes with a "Lifetime" subsciption.

I would also observe that a thread like yours can only have the effect of possibly significantly hastening the end of Tivo in the UK if the wrong people at Tivo Inc happen to see it. Or was that perhaps your intention anyway when you posted.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Or, the changes they're making to the server side code to support the new Series 3 UK machines are causing a few temporary problems for older machines....


Can you tell me from which opticians you purchased your especially powerful set of Rose Tinted Spectacles?


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## Andy Leitch (Apr 30, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Excuse me for asking but aren't you the fourm member who once used to have a signature at the end of each of your posts that said "Tivo is dead the future is *here*" (with the here being a link to the then embryonic Sky HD website).
> 
> It just seemed slightly a trifle inconsistent to me that you would now have bought yourself another Tivo in view of your previous evangelical promotion of Sky HD?
> 
> Or am I confusing you with someone else?


The last time you posted this Pete77, you quickly deleted it, probably hoping nobody noticed it. But I did notice it. 

As we seem to be digging up the past.....why don't you adhere to your post below...instead of trying to 'get one over' other forum members. :up:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5167731#post5167731


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

Andy Leitch said:


> SCART is not on its way out. It is a legacy connection just like composite and S-Video.
> 
> And we don't actually *need* HDMI....component is just as good. HDMI is only needed to enforce DRM.


Legacy means it can be dropped at some point. Especially when you consider SCART is a pain for manufacturers. It takes up valuable space as it's a stupidly big connector, and is specific mostly to just Europe. With HDMI the same design can be used the world over, and it's very compact (component still takes up a fair bit of space by comparison, and being analogue requires expensive cables to ensure quality).

But anyway, look in the local shops and almost all DVD players now sport HDMI (and most with upscaling to HD too), for bargain prices. Freeview boxes likewise have HDMI now.

TiVo needs the same *if* it were ever by some amazing miracle going to even remotely consider coming back to the UK. TiVo also needs to be priced so it doesn't get consigned to a dusty corner in the local branch of Currys. So it needs to be around £100 to compete. I can't see that happening.

Unless they can wrangle their way into the Freesat PVR line-up and be allowed to keep the TiVo EPG (as Freesat have their own and will likely be unwilling to have a model on the market that doesn't conform).


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

TiVo has proven it's software not to need the latest and greatest hardware, so it shouldn't be that difficult to put on a &#163;100 machine technically.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

You don't find many with exclusively HDMI though, that would be silly... you'd be reducing your target market.

SCART has a while to run just yet


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## Maclynn (Oct 6, 2000)

TCM2007 said:


> I'd be surprised if there are 5,000 still in use.
> 
> Well I still use three.


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## mista_c (Aug 2, 2003)

kitschcamp said:


> TiVo has proven it's software not to need the latest and greatest hardware, so it shouldn't be that difficult to put on a £100 machine technically.


Yes but where would they make their money? Would there be a large enough number prepared to pay a monthly subscription and would it be worthwhile? Probably not.

I wonder how Tivo are making their money in Australia and if it is sustainable. Are Network Seven paying Tivo a fee?!


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## Nero2 (Aug 22, 2005)

Pete77 said:


> Or was that perhaps your intention anyway when you posted.


Not at all Pete, oh how you make me laugh.

I've just bought a second Tivo with a lifetime sub, so I would be royally peed-off if Tivo Inc pulled out.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Andy Leitch said:


> And we don't actually *need* HDMI....component is just as good. HDMI is only needed to enforce DRM.


Well, it's needed to keep the signal digital throughout - often a good thing.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> Well, it's needed to keep the signal digital throughout - often a good thing.


Indeed, especially when it's a digital panel. And few devices offer or receive HD through component, and HDMI (or DVI) does a better job of it.

HDMI is the way forward, and almost all new kit (including TVs) have HDMI. There are a few LCDs about that even drop the SCART socket, or have limited them to just one when you used to get two or three. It's cheap, it's digital throughout, and it's a nice compact connector (finally someone's seen sense!).

Only use I have for SCART now is TiVo and I wish it was HDMI as it would be two less conversions (TiVo converting digital to analogue and the LCD back to digital. That's considering TiVo already has done an analogue to digital and my Sky box a digital to analogue! No wonder the picture quality sucks ).

Anyway, so what TiVo needs (if we are do go into Wonderland and believe for a second that it will come back to the UK... which it won't), is HDMI input, HDMI output, and ideally an all-digital Freeview tuner and/or Freesat. We can of course forget any kind of Sky tuner, unless Ofcom or whoever decide to take on Murdoch's empire and force them to open the platform (not going to happen). Really need to be rid of these DA/AD conversions. Most Freeview PVR kit and certainly Sky+ is rid of them and that's why the picture quality is so much better.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Can you tell me from which opticians you purchased your especially powerful set of Rose Tinted Spectacles?


Haha - that's a trade secret 

I'm thinking of making them available on my website soon though - at a vastly excessive price of course....


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Haha - that's a trade secret
> 
> I'm thinking of making them available on my website soon though - at a vastly excessive price of course....


Perhaps you would also care to tell us the conclusion of your Rose Tinted Spectacles regarding the failure of the UK Tivo S1 Suggestions feature for all UK customers?


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

"Stuff happens" is my guess


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> "Stuff happens" is my guess


No surely blindlemon will soon be along to tell us they have had to neglect fixing the problem with Suggestions for the UK Tivo S1 units so that they can complete all the software and database development for the soon to be launched Tivo S3 HD UK Tivo units.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> No surely blindlemon will soon be along to tell us they have had to neglect fixing the problem with Suggestions for the UK Tivo S1 units so that they can complete all the software and database development for the soon to be launched Tivo S3 HD UK Tivo units.


And you know _how_ that this isn't the case...?

Jeez! The negativity of many people on this forum is getting a bit depressing. We have *no* concrete evidence that TiVo is intending to pull out of the UK, but on the other hand we have *plenty* of evidence that they are continuing to expand internationally. Furthermore, the appearance of the TiVo Reference System with SCART sockets earlier in the year is clear indication that they are planning to target Europe at some point. When they do, then there is precious little reason IMHO why they would not also make those machines available in the UK where they already have a small but fanatical following who have been waiting for the last 5 years or so for a new machine to hit the shelves.

The fact that Sky+ currently dominates the market and that Freeview 'PVRs' are plentiful and cheap (but all crap) is certainly not going to put off existing TiVo owners and the sales virtually guaranteed from that sector would be a useful and relatively cost free (in terms of advertising) toe in the water for more aggressive introduction of a new system.


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## davisa (Feb 19, 2002)

Blindlemon, all well and good, but to have such fundamental (to TiVo) services such as suggestions not working for over two weeks, and still no proper communication from TiVo (the company) does not look good or instil one with confidence.

As a TiVo monthly subscriber I'm seriously thinking of reducing my cable channels to the bare minimum (as I have no intention of paying for V+), getting a Toppy (plus USB networking box- damn that lack of network port) and dropping TiVo. After 7 years+ it will be a shame as I still rate TiVo the best, but there comes a point when one gets fed up with being ignored...

My two brothers and parents (all on monthly subs) who also got TiVo after seeing mine are also now considering alternatives.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> And you know _how_ that this isn't the case...?


I think its what's known as a sanity/reality check in the light of the now overwhelming evidence (not bothering to renew the tivo.co.uk domain, permanently screwing up the system for transferring Lifetime Subs to new owners and now finally Suggestions being allowed to collapse in a heap) that Tivo Inc doesn't really give a stuff any more about what happens to its loyal UK customer base.

I expect that the rot set in at about the time Mike Ramsay finally ceased coming to the office there every day in Alviso


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

They aren't willing to allocate extra funds (i.e. IT dept time) to fixing problems that only affect UK users (subs), but might get around to it sometime soon....

We know we aren't a priority, but that doesn't mean switch off it coming soon, just that we are way down the list of importance...

The tivo.co.uk thing is a red herring (current owner wants a 4 figure sum BTW  ) as tivo never referenced that url, its always been uk.tivo.com

Interestingly I had a chat with guy from martindawes (rental company), and there are still 100 tivos on monthly rental up here (Northwest).

The SCART freeview based reference tivo would be an "easy" release here for someone like humax (who have a tivo licence IIRC?) and PVRs are now a known item to the public (unlike in 2000)


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

cwaring said:


> "Stuff happens" is my guess


Hey, that's my tagline - Only it's not "Stuff"


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

davisa said:


> Blindlemon, all well and good, but to have such fundamental (to TiVo) services such as suggestions not working ... I'm seriously thinking of ... and dropping TiVo.


I guess that depends on how important you think Suggestions are. I never found them useful except as an indicator of free space on the disk, and in fact found that people would have them high on their objections to TiVo list ("I don't want the machine recording stuff on its own!).


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

I've found them useful at times in different ways:

Firstly, programs that I've previously watched, but no longer have a season pass for occasionally recording the odd program.

Secondly, it has caught series I'd never thought to set a season pass for, or a wishlist for, and it has caught some real gems.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Jeez!


I'm sure that word is only used in American rather than British English?

And I thought we Tivo S1 owners were British old chap don't you know what, what.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Every so often I contemplate what I'd do were my TiVo to stop working. Obviously, I'd try the obvious of replacing the hard drive first, something I've already done once. Should the faliure be more substatial (major hardware or account stop working), what would I do?

Up until now, I have always come to the conclusion that I'd be out there buying a new TiVo on e-bay, whatever the cost. Today I posed the same exercise and for the first time in 8 years, I came to a different answer. 

TiVo is no longer an "essential" in my life. Should it go kaput tomorrow, I'd probably, replace it with either a Freesat recordable receiver (though this would mean piping an extra cable from the dish if it's a dual tuner) or possibly a freeview (doing more research than I did for the Tevion piece of junk I bought a couple of years ago from Aldi).

My main recorder is now Sky HD - as I've mentioned earlier about 90&#37; of my viewing is now via this. I wouldn't miss suggestions any more as quite frankly I haven't used them for quite some time - since TiVo suddenly started spouting garbage suggestions rather than the excellent and meaningful ones it previously did.

Had TiVo moved into the 2000s with us in the UK, I suspect the situation would be very different. I'd almost certainly have a DTT Freeview TiVo and be using it much more frequently. Unfortunately, Sky's monopoly on the subscription satellite world has largely quashed any meaningful development of a TiVo satellite platform and Freesat undermines their subscription model with its programme guide. The cable platforms decided a long time ago to go their own way.

Would I now buy a Freeview / Freesat TiVo if they brought one out? Possibly, but I suspect the functionality of equivalent free non-subscription boxes will vastly improve once Freesat provides a rich source of programme data (I don't know if it does already - certainly that was part of the original plan). Once this happens, many people would question the logic of paying a subscription for a service that doesn't appear to offer much more than what they can get for free from the broadcasters.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

aerialplug,

According to my very long and interesting conversation with one of Sky's most longstanding Tivo reps last night (been there since the start of Tivo and knew her stuff and all about the current sub, season pass and suggestions problems and Tivo not fixing them) Sky will be coming out with a totally new Sky HD interface in a few months time that will be much more Tivo like than the current EPG based one. She implied that things like search by title and some kind of Wishlist like function might well be part of this new interface.

Unfortunately it will only be available to Sky HD boxes, no doubt to encourage all the ordinary Sky and Sky+ customers to upgrade and/or perhaps due to superior processing power on Sky HD boxes but if it is good as she suggests and I could buy one on Ebay or whatever and only pay the £10 per month recording fee (for BBC HD and C4 HD) then I might consider it. However it would be a difficult choice between that and Freesat PVR and I would really need to try and test drive one at a friendly retailer and/or buy from a retailer who would let me return it, no questions asked, for up to say 14 days or 28 days. Also I have to organise a second feed from our communal satellite dish which may be possible but also tricky and expensive.


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## Milhouse (Sep 15, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> aerialplug,
> 
> According to my very long and interesting conversation with one of Sky's most longstanding Tivo reps last night (been there since the start of Tivo and knew her stuff and all about the current sub, season pass and suggestions problems and Tivo not fixing them) Sky will be coming out with a totally new Sky HD interface in a few months time that will be much more Tivo like than the current EPG based one. She implied that things like search by title and some kind of Wishlist like function might well be part of this new interface.
> 
> Unfortunately it will only be available to Sky HD boxes, no doubt to encourage all the ordinary Sky and Sky+ customers to upgrade and/or perhaps due to superior processing power on Sky HD boxes but if it is good as she suggests and I could buy one on Ebay or whatever and only pay the £10 per month recording fee (for BBC HD and C4 HD) then I might consider it. However it would be a difficult choice between that and Freesat PVR and I would really need to try and test drive one at a friendly retailer and/or buy from a retailer who would let me return it, no questions asked, for up to say 14 days or 28 days. Also I have to organise a second feed from our communal satellite dish which may be possible but also tricky and expensive.


The new Sky EPG has been known about for months, there's even pictures on the web if you look hard enough.

Many of TiVos unique features are patented so it will be interesting to see how succesful Sky are in copying them, but one thing is for sure the new SkyHD UI/EPG will still be slow, unreliable and full of bugs which is why I would never willingly move from TiVo to SkyHD. Even fast forwarding through adverts is a horrible experience (slow even at 30x) compared to TiVo!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Milhouse said:


> The new Sky EPG has been known about for months, there's even pictures on the web if you look hard enough.


I guess you mean this:-

http://stuff.tv/blogs/future/archive/2008/05/29/first-look-sky-s-new-hd-epg.aspx

But then they also say:-



> It's not a revolutionary overhaul, but then the Sky Guide didn't really need one. Naturally, *it won't be the only development for the Sky HD box this year  we're sworn to secrecy over the upcoming changes, but you'll be the first to know when Murdoch's henchmen give us the nod*


I'm sure you are right though that the reality of any new Sky software will not match up to the theory in terms of reliability. I for one won't be giving up my Tivo until I am forced to or the case for change (due to much more HD programming) becomes overwhelming.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

If recent listings on eBay are anything to go by, something is happening to TiVo in the UK; at least in the eyes of users. Not so long ago bidding would get extremely high for even the most basic of systems (with or without a LTS) and now you can pick one up for next to nothing even with a BIN. It's hardly worth thinking about selling a TiVo.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Apologies to BlindLemon for being negative...

There must come a point where only the 'hobbyists' like ourselves are left with TiVos - wildly selling the same units to each other in some kind of incestuous deal. Everyone else has moved on.

Perhaps this point has been reached. TivoLand are flogging LT units for relatively little.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

rickynumber18 said:


> If recent listings on eBay are anything to go by, something is happening to TiVo in the UK; at least in the eyes of users. Not so long ago bidding would get extremely high for even the most basic of systems (with or without a LTS) and now you can pick one up for next to nothing even with a BIN. It's hardly worth thinking about selling a TiVo.


Or quite simply the bottom has fallen out of the market for no real reason; it just has. It was bound to happen at some point, I think.

Perhaps I should see if I can afford one of these low-priced units in case mine fails. I'd hate to be without it and, unless the V+ v2 (due later this year) is a _vast_ improvement, I can't see me getting rid of my Tivo until Tivo themselves decide to pull the plug!


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

The Tivoland units aren't THAT cheap at all. &#163;89.00 + &#163;19.99 (P and P) + &#163;60.00 for an LTS model. That's a huge &#163;168.99. To me that's very expensive. Or am I missing something? There's private (non-business) sales of LTS models on eBay for far less.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> Or quite simply the bottom has fallen out of the market for no real reason; it just has.


There is a very good reason that the bottom has fallen out of it. These are that the cutting edge of television watching is now Sky HD, V+ and Freesat HD and not Tivo and that no one any longer has any confidence that Tivo will necessarily be providing us with a service in 12 months time due to various failures by Tivo to remedy serious ongoing problems with the UK Tivo service.



> Perhaps I should see if I can afford one of these low-priced units in case mine fails. I'd hate to be without it and, unless the V+ v2 (due later this year) is a _vast_ improvement, I can't see me getting rid of my Tivo until Tivo themselves decide to pull the plug!


Perhaps you should get one then if its no more than cost of six monthly Tivo subs but make sure you don't ask the owner to transfer the subscription in to your name and make sure to to ask him to leave the Lifetime Sub open in his name.


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Pete77 said:


> Perhaps you should get one then if its no more than cost of six monthly Tivo subs but make sure you don't ask the owner to transfer the subscription in to your name and make sure to to ask him to leave the Lifetime Sub open in his name.


Please see #45. These boxes with an LTS would set you back a whopping £168.99 - allot more than six months subs (I think).


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> Please see my post above, these boxes with an LTS would set you back a whopping £168.99 - allot more than six months subs.


But less than the £200 Tivo would charge for just a Lifetime Sub without a Tivo to go with it. Tivoland have always been more expensive due to the alleged reassurance of being a seller you have some comeback with. However even they have significantly reduced their prices. I think there are plenty of other Lifetime Sub Tivos on Ebay at even lower prices.............


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Very true Pete. I hadn't thought of that. As of right now there are a handful of other LTS TiVo units on eBay for less than the Tivoland BIN price - subject to bidding going high on those other auctions of course. Not that they do seem to go high now days.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> To me that's very expensive.


I did say relatively little- compared to £200 it's cheap. 

Whether anyone regular from here would be able to negotiate a discount would be an interesting exchange. But I'm starting to sound like the real Pete now.


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

My main reason for the slow decline in TiVo use is the fact that my TVs have gotten bigger but the resolution supported by TiVo hasn't. TiVo looked great on my old tube telly, but looks acceptable/OK on my 41in plasma. I can't use mode 1 - I've tried and I get gray flashes on the bottom of the screen so that isn't an option - but with Sky+ and now Sky HD, I'm watching the same quality as the original broadcast, uncompromised by the decode/recode chain that was necessary in TiVo.

And now I have Sky HD - no going back.

Yes, I'm well aware of the revamp coming in the EPG - I did hear that it was coming to later generations of Sky+ - but now that I have a HD box I hope they use the full HD resolution to put far finer information on the screen. Still, those screen grabs scare me - I hope we move away from the horizontal table Sky have always clung to - you just don't get enough info and it's all confusing when the programmes are short in duration. I find TiVo's Guide mode to be the best I've ever seen (and I worked in the industry for 8 years).


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

Prices are getting really silly now. There's an unmodified TiVo listed on eBay today for just &#163;12 plus P and P. There's no hope.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Well spotted! TiVo number 3....


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> Prices are getting really silly now. There's an unmodified TiVo listed on eBay today for just £12 plus P and P. There's no hope.


Is that with or without a Lifetime Sub?


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## rickynumber18 (Feb 28, 2007)

If it's still on eBay (and I've not taken a look) it is without a LTS and is unmodified.

***FYI; just checked on eBay for you Pete and the &#163;12 TiVo has been sold. I'm not surprised. I think they'll all be going this cheap very soon.***


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

rickynumber18 said:


> If it's still on eBay (and I've not taken a look) it is without a LTS and is unmodified.
> 
> ***FYI; just checked on eBay for you Pete and the £12 TiVo has been sold. I'm not surprised. I think they'll all be going this cheap very soon.***


Ricky,

I'm not surprised to hear an unmodded Tivo is going for only £12 and I assume there is carriage on top of £15 or whatever.

As things stand you cannot actually move a monthly subbed box to an owner with a different credit card at a different address and the remaining market for Tivo boxes is sufficiently informed that most people would only try to get one with a Lifetime Sub.

Spares or repairs is the only possible motivation but as a Tivo is very reliable apart from its hard drives the need for that eventuality is fairly limited.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> I'm not surprised to hear an unmodded Tivo is going for only £12 and I assume there is carriage on top of £15 or whatever.


A tenner.

It also is missing a remote, which will cost more than the TiVo.


> As things stand you cannot actually move a monthly subbed box to an owner with a different credit card at a different address and the remaining market for Tivo boxes is sufficiently informed that most people would only try to get one with a Lifetime Sub.


Nah, spare parts for my two working ones, or another conversion job to Swedish TiVo.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> Nah, spare parts for my two working ones, or another conversion job to Swedish TiVo.


When do you find the time to watch all the programs you can now record?


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Do you know how empty my tivos are? 

I use the Swedish TiVo because the Swedish PVRs are beyond naff. It's easier to manually record with Tivoweb than use the PVR.

I use the UK tivo to find stuff because there is so little to actually see! Especially with my UK reception being limited to pay channels at the moment. We rarely watch more than 2 hours a night. 

Any surplus programs are then taken away with me on my travels with work. There is a limit to how much Latvian and Arabic tv you can watch.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Milhouse said:


> Many of TiVos unique features are patented so it will be interesting to see how succesful Sky are in copying them ...


Microsoft managed to do it (and more) with MCE, so I can't see Sky having a problem.


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## DeadKenny (Nov 9, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> Jeez! The negativity of many people on this forum is getting a bit depressing.


It's called facing facts and reality. I've gone through this so many times before having backed the wrong horse (done it again with HD-DVD even! ). It's easy to spot when you're flogging a dead horse .

I find it's better to not get hopes up and then be surprised by some good news, than to continually get depressed by having expectations too high that get dashed. Don't get me wrong though, I'd love TiVo to come back to the UK. I just wouldn't be prepared to bet on it.



> We have *no* concrete evidence that TiVo is intending to pull out of the UK, but on the other hand we have *plenty* of evidence that they are continuing to expand internationally.


TiVo pulled out of the UK a very long time ago. All that is provided is some support via Tribune (which is looking a little flaky at present) and a few people at Sky, for "legacy" customers. This may stay, or not, but TiVo UK is no more as a product.

The expansion evidence is just Australia isn't it? Hardly major, and we have to see how well it does over there anyway.



> Furthermore, the appearance of the TiVo Reference System with SCART sockets earlier in the year is clear indication that they are planning to target Europe at some point.


Hopefully it's got HDMI sockets and HD support too else there's zero chance of it really taking off. SCART just means it can cope with 80s technology and recording off analogue sources. To be HD it really needs to be a deal with one of Freeview, Freesat or Sky to provide an integrated receiver to record off. In fact if it was an HD-only box it doesn't need SCART at all (and save some space).

Sadly I like a number of Sky channels and it's definite that TiVo will never have a deal with Sky.


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## warrenrb (Jul 21, 2002)

Sorry to sound like such a Noob, but what is this 'Tivo Reference System' everyone is talking about?

Where can I see any information on it? And is it really relevant to us?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> There is a limit to how much Latvian and Arabic tv you can watch.


Is there?! What is it?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

warrenrb said:


> what is this 'Tivo Reference System' everyone is talking about?


Hey, nOOb. 

It's a TiVo that was reviewed before they went to Australia by someone (who's website I can't find now - The Lemon has it). In a nutshell, it had SCART sockets and other bits and bobs that would suggest that TiVo have got a S3-alike machine that they can use in Europe.

Wishful thinkers see this as a sign of the returning messiah.


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

ColinYounger said:


> Is there?! What is it?


5 minutes is about my limit.

No, that's a lie. There is a hilarious soap opera on Lebanese TV that you can't understand a word of, but it's full of bizarre stuff.


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## steven.g (Aug 28, 2007)

If you look at this article from last weeks Sunday Times, right at the end it says Tivo is talking about relaunching in the UK.

Link: http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article4739459.ece


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

Five years too late by my reckoning. If Freesat start broadcasting a rich metadata stream for the majority of channels they support, and Freeview decide to echo this, TiVo's subscription broadcasting model won't stand a chance - it barely survived the last time they launched.

As soon as the broadcasters can get their acts together and support their programmes with good metadata, manufacturers will be able to make DVRs that are as versatile as our S1 TiVos.

I think TiVo have dropped the ball as far as the UK is concerned and I also think they need to have a real miracle happen for a second UK launch to be successful. Remember, in the States, almost everyone knows what a TiVo is - here, people look at me blankly until I mention Sky+ - THAT they know.

I realise it wasn't TiVo that pulled the plug - as far as we're told it was Thompson pulling out of the market - but regardless of who's to blame, TiVo will have a huge struggle to launch here now.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

aerialplug said:


> TiVo will have a huge struggle to launch here now.


They could do a version of the PC\Mac adverts.

"I'm Sky+"
"and I'm a TiVo"...


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