# fubo TV?



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

So I have accessing the forum with my add blockers off and there seems to be one heck of allot of adds for what appears to be another OTT "cable replacement" broadcast streaming service called fubo TV. Doesn't appear to be all that great of a deal to me.

Is this new? Has anyone tried it?

Perhaps if they want to advertise so much on this site they should get their service on TiVo.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Never heard of it. Looks too have a pretty small collection of channels compared to PSVue. Looks like they're trying to focus mainly on sports channels.


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## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

With PlayStation Vue shutting down on January 30th, 2020, I'm looking for a new OTT provider and Fubo TV seems to be the one that has the channels I want (with the exception of ESPN). I was wondering if anyone here was using it and would give their thoughts to the service.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Rodney said:


> With PlayStation Vue shutting down on January 30th, 2020, I'm looking for a new OTT provider and Fubo TV seems to be the one that has the channels I want (with the exception of ESPN). I was wondering if anyone here was using it and would give their thoughts to the service.


I think I tried it a year ago. But forget the details.

The best way to know is to just do a free trial and use it for the trial period. And then report back to us. I do remember that it had BEin Sports which was a positive for me.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Rodney said:


> With PlayStation Vue shutting down on January 30th, 2020, I'm looking for a new OTT provider and Fubo TV seems to be the one that has the channels I want (with the exception of ESPN). I was wondering if anyone here was using it and would give their thoughts to the service.


That's a huge exception though. If you really want ESPN why would you even consider Fubo?


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## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> That's a huge exception though. If you really want ESPN why would you even consider Fubo?


It's a matter of priority. Fubo seems to be one of the few to have NFL Network and NFL RedZone, along with TCM and other stations I want. I only watch ESPN for Monday Night Football.



trip1eX said:


> The best way to know is to just do a free trial and use it for the trial period. And then report back to us


That's what I intend to do. I was hoping some others could give me things to look for while I am in my trial. A week doesn't always give you enough time to test everything out.


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## lynncosbm (Dec 12, 2006)

I’ve been using Fubo for a couple years now. We got it mainly because my husband is a big soccer fan and it has a good selection of that. However, I cancelled our cable service a couple months ago and am using Fubo now for most TV watching and am pretty happy with it. During the NFL season I pay an extra $8.95 per month to get NFL Red Zone and have just cancelled that now that the season is over. Works for us anyway!


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

I tried Fubo about a year ago. The Firestick app was very slow and clunky. It took forever to scroll through the guide and tune to a channel. Hopefully that has been improved by now, but it's something to watch out for.


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## wml1950 (Dec 25, 2006)

I have subscribed to Fubo for over one year. I have tried all of the major streaming services. Fubo is excellent. It has a wide selection of networks. The basic dvr is 30 hours. The expanded dvr, for an extra fee, is 500 hours. Commercials can be forwarded through on recorded shows. The only main network missing is ABC, which includes ESPN. Virtually all other stations are available.
Fubo is the only main streaming service to include the Weather Channel. This is important for hurricane forecasts or other serious weather events. Tech support is very helpful. Many networks have a three day rewind. This can include watching recent local news after it has aired. The picture quality is good even with a slow internet speed of 5 Mpbs. 
I still subscribe to cable tv in addition to Fubo. I greatly appreciate how TiVo records shows and has excellent search capabilities. I use TiVo’s with cable cards and TiVos with an antenna only. I still prefer having the ability to buffer three shows while watching another. Fubo is excellent for traveling as you can easily watch any recorded show anywhere in the USA. Fubo also has limited content of 4K shows.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I actually tried this recently. They have almost every channel we watch and was my top contender for cutting the cord. Biggest issue... no user profiles. Without profiles mine and my wife's stuff would get all mixed together and there would be no way to mark stuff we both watch, but separately so the second one could delete it. 

It also has no "keep at most" setting and for shows that are on daily, but we don’t always watch, like the news would require active management to keep from overrunning the DVR.


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## wbrightfl (Oct 31, 2013)

I like Fubo tv. Excellent pic quality and they carry my favorite channels. Channel guide is easy to view and overall UI is fine. A good alternative to cable and TIVO.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

54.99 for fubo to start?

f* fubo !


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## Adam C. (Jul 24, 2017)

Apparently they just recently removed a bunch of RSNs and other channels such as Nat Geo. Make sure you check the channel lineup carefully if you're thinking of signing up.


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## bam1220 (Feb 17, 2016)

Adam C. said:


> Apparently they just recently removed a bunch of RSNs and other channels such as Nat Geo. Make sure you check the channel lineup carefully if you're thinking of signing up.


I was just going to post this. They removed quite a few channels. I tried Fubo last summer. I liked the channels but hated the interface. No thumbnails so it was really hard to ff'd through commercials. I was using a Samsung smart TV app as well as a Roku. Fubo has been saying for more than 7 months that they are adding thumbnails (Apparently Apple TV has them) but so far nothing. I was with them for less than 1 week because of the lack of thumbnails. With the exclusion of all the recent channels I won't be looking at them again.


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## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

I want to thank everyone for their input. I would also like to hear what other OTT people chose instead of Fubo TV. I was hoping Fubo had a "keep at most" option, as that was one thing missing from Playstation Vue.

I'll be trying out the service later this month, but in the meantime I keep researching others.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Rodney said:


> I would also like to hear what other OTT people chose instead of Fubo TV.


Go to the YTTV thread.  YTTV is hard to beat because of unlimited storage and tuners among other things.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> Go to the YTTV thread.  YTTV is hard to beat because of unlimited storage and tuners among other things.


It's missing some channels too though.

None of the streaming services, other than DirecTV now which costs as much as cable and has a very limited DVR, has all the major cable networks. They're all missing something.

YTTV and Fubo have the most channels, and the best DVR policies, but they're creeping up in price to where they're near cable prices too. These channel bundles are just expensive, no matter who you get them from


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## saeba (Oct 12, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> YTTV and Fubo have the most channels, and the best DVR policies, but they're creeping up in price to where they're near cable prices too.


From my personal experience, they have a way to go. My Comcast bill for the basic Comcast Xfinity HD Preferred TV package with two cable cards was $104/month. YouTube TV is $49.99.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> It's missing some channels too though.
> 
> None of the streaming services, other than DirecTV now which costs as much as cable and has a very limited DVR, has all the major cable networks. They're all missing something.
> 
> YTTV and Fubo have the most channels, and the best DVR policies, but they're creeping up in price to where they're near cable prices too. These channel bundles are just expensive, no matter who you get them from


Well I didn't say it was perfect or anything. (A poster) was just wondering what other OTT solutions people chose. And well there's a YTTV thread (in case he missed it) and imo it's hard to beat YTTV.

Hard to judge pricing against cable etc since pricing is negotiable and different in every area. IT's a YMMV. But in my case YTTV was cheaper than cable. Similar enough channels -missing a few and have a few I didn't have before. And the cheaper price is before one figures in the cost of a Tivo system...which, even if amoritized over 5 years, is $10-$15/mo at best. (price of cable packages doesn't include cable company dvr/set top box costs either generally speaking.) Cost of streaming equipment could be factored in but many of us have tvs with streaming built-in or streaming boxes already.

Channel selection is also a YMMV. Showstopper for some. Not for others. But, for example, for those not lking YTTV right now, someone in the YTTV thread link that surveys are out asking (essentially) if people are interested in getting the remaining "usual" cable channels that YTTV doesn't have in exchange for a potential price increase to ~$60/mo. The channels listed were A&E, History, Comedy Channel, Hallmark, and a few others. btw I never thought YTTV had the most channels or at least the most complete traditional selection of cable channels.

But I will say the more I use YTTV the more I like it better than cable/Tivo. Less hassle due to unlimited storage/tuners. Picture quality is better. Commercial skipping is good enough. Experience doesn't degrade if you are not on the main tv (aka on a MIni) or are out of town. No expensive equipment purchase necessary. Can cancel anytime or even pause service for up to ~6 months and keep old recordings. ...


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## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> Go to the YTTV thread.  YTTV is hard to beat because of unlimited storage and tuners among other things.


Thanks, YTTV is not on my short list because it doesn't appear to have NFL Network or NFL Redzone.
I am now looking at Sling Blue as they have announced that they now have NFL Network, so that has moved up on my list above Fubo, mainly due to price. Man, choosing another OTT to replace Playstation Vue has turned out to be harder than I thought!


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Rodney said:


> Thanks, YTTV is not on my short list because it doesn't appear to have NFL Network or NFL Redzone.
> I am now looking at Sling Blue as they have announced that they now have NFL Network, so that has moved up on my list above Fubo, mainly due to price. Man, choosing another OTT to replace Playstation Vue has turned out to be harder than I thought!


Well now you don't need those channels for another ~8 months right? 

Btw you can get Red Zone via streaming separately. I swear I just saw that. For all I know it was this thread. lol.

But that would knock down one requirement for you if I remember correctly. (edit: might only be for mobile devices.)

NFL Network is another story, but meh it's only a few games per year. This year it was a few Thursday games and that Saturday where there was 3 games which was a bit hard to stomach except I was out of town visiting brother and parents and they had NFL network. Lol.

But I hate supporting NFL network because they basically said hey pay for another channel to get a few extra games that we previously put on the major networks or ESPN. 
And for me that channel was always in a more expensive package $10/mo or more. So I always said no, stop nickel and diming me.

I digress though. As far as OTT packages go, if you have specific channel requirements you just gotta go down the list for each service. No one else can help you do that but you.


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## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> As far as OTT packages go, if you have specific channel requirements you just gotta go down the list for each service. No one else can help you do that but you.


Wait... can't someone _else_ do it! 

True enough, I'm trying to get info on quality and stability, if there are any known issues, as I whittle down to the choice, and then I can test out what others say have been problems for that streaming service while I am using the free trial.

One thing I liked about Vue (but isn't a deal-breaker) is the multi-view option I had on the Apple TV, where I could watch multiple channels at once (up to 4). That is a nice feature for sports and news events.


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## reneg (Jun 19, 2002)

trip1eX said:


> As far as OTT packages go, if you have specific channel requirements you just gotta go down the list for each service. No one else can help you do that but you.


TheStreamable website can make it a bit easier if you plug in your channels here: thestreamable.com/matchmaker


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Rodney said:


> Wait... can't someone _else_ do it!
> 
> True enough, I'm trying to get info on quality and stability, if there are any known issues, as I whittle down to the choice, and then I can test out what others say have been problems for that streaming service while I am using the free trial.
> 
> One thing I liked about Vue (but isn't a deal-breaker) is the multi-view option I had on the Apple TV, where I could watch multiple channels at once (up to 4). That is a nice feature for sports and news events.


 there are only ~5 services aren't there? Choice has already been whittled down. 

YTTV, Fubo, Hulu Livetv, Sling, Directv(ATT), ...

IT looks like 3 of those don't have NFL network. So you have a choice between Sling and Fubotv. IT's easier than you think. 

And FuboTV doesn't have ESPN right? I assume if you want NFL network, you probably want ESPN since there is a weekly NFL game on there plus NFL playoff games.

so in the end Sling is your only choice. Your welcome. lol. (I should get a referral fee.  )


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

saeba said:


> From my personal experience, they have a way to go. My Comcast bill for the basic Comcast Xfinity HD Preferred TV package with two cable cards was $104/month. YouTube TV is $49.99.


Does that include Premium channels?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> Channel selection is also a YMMV. Showstopper for some. Not for others. But, for example, for those not lking YTTV right now, someone in the YTTV thread link that surveys are out asking (essentially) if people are interested in getting the remaining "usual" cable channels that YTTV doesn't have in exchange for a potential price increase to ~$60/mo. The channels listed were A&E, History, Comedy Channel, Hallmark, and a few others. btw I never thought YTTV had the most channels or at least the most complete traditional selection of cable channels.


Those are channels I watch, so I'd say yes to that survey.

One other potential issue with YTTV is that there is a 9 month limit on recordings. Much better than the 30 days most others offer, but there is a limit so if you're the type to hoard entire seasons of shows it could potentially be an issue.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> so in the end Sling is your only choice. Your welcome. lol. (I should get a referral fee.  )


Except Sling doesn't have a DVR feature, and since we're on a DVR forum I'd think that's important.


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## saeba (Oct 12, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Does that include Premium channels?


Premium such as HBO, Showtime, Starz, etc.? If so, it does not.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> Except Sling doesn't have a DVR feature, and since we're on a DVR forum I'd think that's important.


I thought Sling has had a DVR for a while now.
Record Live TV with Cloud DVR | Sling TV


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

mdavej said:


> I thought Sling has had a DVR for a while now.
> Record Live TV with Cloud DVR | Sling TV


Oh ok, they didn't originally. But apparently there are some limitations....

What you need to know about DVR on Sling TV

Specifically pertaining to this conversation you can't record ESPN.


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## swyman18 (Jan 7, 2016)

One drawback about SlingTV is that many of their channels are 30 fps, which to me was very noticeable and annoying. I think the sports channels like NFL Network are 60 fps. I subscribed for a month or so just for NFL Network and watched a few games, and the quality was decent. But many of the non-sports channels where very “juddery” which drives me crazy.


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## osu1991 (Mar 6, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> Oh ok, they didn't originally. But apparently there are some limitations....
> 
> What you need to know about DVR on Sling TV
> 
> Specifically pertaining to this conversation you can't record ESPN.


That changed a few weeks ago.

Sling TV's Cloud DVR can finally record ESPN


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

osu1991 said:


> That changed a few weeks ago.
> 
> Sling TV's Cloud DVR can finally record ESPN


They still have the 30 limit and the limit that you can't record anything they offer VOD (with forced commercials)?


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

atmuscarella said:


> ...another OTT "cable replacement" broadcast streaming service called fubo TV. Doesn't appear to be all that great of a deal to me.
> 
> Has anyone tried it?
> 
> Perhaps if they want to advertise so much on this site they should get their service on TiVo.


On Jan 1st our Frontier broadband died out. It took until Jan 7 to get service out and meanwhile we did trials of CBS all access, Hulu Plus, Disney plus, Netflix, Amazon, Tubi and Fubo over our cell phones streaming to Apple TV. We were so impressed with Fubo that we decided to drop our TV package and boost our Internet only service to 5G with Frontier.

We have 3 Tivos- two capture OTA signals and give us local, ABC and PBS Channels. The other Tivo isn't connected (yet) to any antenna but we still use it to transfer recorded OTA programs to that room.

After all the free trials we dropped Hulu Plus and CBS all access due to the commercials and limitations of keeping program recordings or delays in accessing programs in real time.

We kept Disney Plus as it has the Nat Geo channel (Fubo doesn't). It's a one year subscription which we won't likely renew. We did find some value as we share it with our 3 adult married children. But their kids are into their teen years now so Disney programs are of very limited interest. That said, we are enjoying a number of their movies this year.

Fubo does not carry ABC or PBS but in our case we have that OTA and also have PBS access.

As far as Netflix, one of our adult children shares it with us. It carries quite a few of the "older" broadcast series and it's a nice complement to our viewing choices.

We have had Amazon Prime for many years and watching that on Tivo is no different than before.

Tubi is an interesting concept. Entirely free but does have commercials but not nearly as much as CBS All Access or Hulu. They put onscreen how long the commercial will last and if you hit rewind you don't need to sit through another commercial like with other live streaming channel packages.

So back to Fubo. We are quite I impressed! *This is a true gem and I truly think that Tivo would greatly benefit if they carried the Fubo app*.

Fubo records in live time so there is no limitation of when a broadcast show is available. I can hit the record button at any point, to record the entire show. If it is a 4 hour special and ends in 1 min, if I hit record then I capture the entire 4 hours.
I have 500 GB of cloud storage and up to 3 users can log in.
I can watch my recorded shows on any device that has a Fubo app or accepts streaming from a device with a Fubo app. The app runs on Apple and Android devices. I am not tied to watching it in a specific geographical area or a specific room.
The same with live TV. I can select favorite channels and set up series recordings.
I can forward through commercials and rewind at any point.
It has a robust search that lets me record shows and a new series even if it is more than 14 days out.
It has a channel guide that goes out 14 days similar to Tivos guide.
It lets me reorder my favorite channels to appear in first in the guide with the remaining channels showing up underneath.
It displays a "Scheduled" menu that mirrors Tivo's To Do menu and let's you edit recordings.
It displays a "Recorded" menu that mirrors TiVo's Shows menu. You swipe to delete recorded shows or click on it to record a series of a one time recorded show.

It has an Entertainment menu which subdivides Shows and Movies some of which are "watch now" and don't depend on recording.
The Home menu has thumbnails of everything in a glance and when a thumbnail is clicked on the program stream is instant- no delay at all. It's the fastest way of "channel switching" I have ever encountered.

The app can be installed on anyone's devices. For example my husband and adult son can install it on their Apple TVs, iPhones and iPads and my brother on his Android using my log in information. I haven't found any limitation on allowing a set number of devices but only 3 devices can stream at any one time. An error message presents if that isn't adhered to.

It doesn't compete with Tivo because it is a program provider not a device. I watch on either Apple 4th gen TV app, iPad or stream from iPhone to my Apple TV 3 gen (no Fubo app available). *I think watching Fubo programming on a Tivo app with skip, FF, slow and Rev buttons would be a really keen experience.*

I can also watch programs in their various apps (Bravo,Hallmark, TLC, etc), by entering Fubo as my TV provider.

The best thing about cutting the cord is being able to watch live and recorded programs anytime, anywhere.

Now for the downfalls:
The Apple TV remote is clunky to FF or REW and the slow options doesn't exist, nor does a skip button.
Up to 3 people can share one account which can create confusion over who is finished watching a program so it can be deleted.
There is no "undelete". Once deleted the program is gone, but for quite a number of programs, they can be found again by searching and are available to "watch now" but doing that means you cannot skip through commercials.
The person signing up must share their login and password with the other two users.
Users that are granted access by the subscribing person cannot tweak their feeds or recordings like with Netflix, Disney Plus or Amazon Video.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Unless you're a sports nut, I don't understand how Fubo can compete with Youtube TV.

YTTV has all locals INCLUDING PBS, 6 completely independent profiles each with its own custom channel list and recording library (no login or password sharing required either), unlimited DVR and lower price.


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## Teavo (Feb 12, 2020)

I agree with above. YouTube tv is a much better deal. 

Even my $20.00 Philo offer more benefits than Fubo offers.


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## Triride44 (Jan 11, 2020)

Fubo must have made a lot of improvements since I tried it a year ago. The biggest problem I had was the sound, and lack of ESPN's. The sound was very weak and lacked Closed Caption, most of the time I couldn't understand any dialog. I have Sling Blue now with AirTV for locals integrated into the program guide. Plan to keep it until Collage Football season (If there is one this fall).


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

bam1220 said:


> I was just going to post this. They removed quite a few channels. I tried Fubo last summer. I liked the channels but hated the interface. No thumbnails so it was really hard to ff'd through commercials. I was using a Samsung smart TV app as well as a Roku. Fubo has been saying for more than 7 months that they are adding thumbnails (Apparently Apple TV has them) but so far nothing. I was with them for less than 1 week because of the lack of thumbnails. With the exclusion of all the recent channels I won't be looking at them again.


I see thumbnails on my Fubo Home menu as well as on Shows and MOvies menus. Also on the live TV menu. Not sure when it started but was some time since Jan 4th when I started our service


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

Triride44 said:


> Fubo must have made a lot of improvements since I tried it a year ago. The biggest problem I had was the sound, and lack of ESPN's. The sound was very weak and lacked Closed Caption, most of the time I couldn't understand any dialog. I have Sling Blue now with AirTV for locals integrated into the program guide. Plan to keep it until Collage Football season (If there is one this fall).


All programming on Fubo now has closed captioning.


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

mdavej said:


> Unless you're a sports nut, I don't understand how Fubo can compete with Youtube TV.
> 
> YTTV has all locals INCLUDING PBS, 6 completely independent profiles each with its own custom channel list and recording library (no login or password sharing required either), unlimited DVR and lower price.


YTTV is not something I have tried. When comparing, I can see how YTTV has advantages and wins over many.

I was replying to a question about people's experience with Fubo, I wasn't doing a comparison between them and YTTV. My son has a subscription with YTTV and enjoys it immensely.


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

Triride44 said:


> Fubo must have made a lot of improvements since I tried it a year ago. The biggest problem I had was the sound, and lack of ESPN's. The sound was very weak and lacked Closed Caption, most of the time I couldn't understand any dialog. I have Sling Blue now with AirTV for locals integrated into the program guide. Plan to keep it until Collage Football season (If there is one this fall).


Neither of us are into ESPN/sports although we do enjoy the occasional rugby/soccer games and Olympic programs on Fubo. One thing really nice are the fishing shows. We didn't have the Outdoor channel included in our Frontier TV package so it's nice to have it back (we last had it with Direct TV).

As far as sound, it has been "theater like" for us and we have also been able to switch to dialogue emphasis. For TiVo we use an optic cable that connects to our Zvox soundbar. Some Amazon and Netfix shows are muddy while others are clear. So I don't think it is related to their apps as much as the individual shows.

For Fubo we use Apple TV connecting to a WHome BT soundbar. Same results. Show audio varies greatly with HD and current programming crystal clear while older (pre 2012) movies and shows are muddier. Since government implemented the "Corona stay at home" directives, the sound is all over the place with news shows that are connecting their guests over Skype or Zoom. Some voices come through quite clear while others are muddy and at a lower volume. I think it's due to the quality of the speaker that the "guests" or hosts are using from inside their homes.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

SandiMacD said:


> YTTV is not something I have tried. When comparing, I can see how YTTV has advantages and wins over many.
> 
> I was replying to a question about people's experience with Fubo, I wasn't doing a comparison between them and YTTV. My son has a subscription with YTTV and enjoys it immensely.


And a very detailed and informative post it was. Thank you.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

While Fubo is generally more known as sports focused and often compared up against YouTube or Hulu Live TV, it appears from the channel lineup, that Fubo Family ($59.99) + Fubo Extra ($5.99) can be compelling for a Sling Blue with Total TV Deal subscriber, looking for a more premium experience over Sling, or looking to try out a slightly different selection of entertainment channels while still keeping others not present in even YouTubeTV, e.g. Hallmark.

Granted, if you do the math, that's $66 vs. $50 - $16 higher with Fubo. Both of these packages lack ESPN/ABC in commonality. Fubo has more sports channels, but both have a number of more specialty cable channels as well, which might be a factor for women viewers in general. The price point is also still closer to each other, than AT&T Now's $80/mo pricing.

And for that extra $16/month, Fubo's plan of 500 cloud DVR is 10 times more than Sling, and notably, Fubo has CBS and probably better coverage of NBC and Fox affiliates. Sling has FX/FXX/NatGeo though, although these are now Disney owned channels, so understandably to Fubo that it isn't carried there.


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

Since my last update, Fubo has added profiles. So now up to 6 profiles can schedule and manage the shared DVR/cloud recordings. I understand that there is however, still a limit on allowing only 3 of those 6 profiles to watch live at the same time.

It's not just the money. Reliability, ease of use, features, product support and past experiences play a part in my continued use of Fubo. 

I have had to contact Fubo twice now. Once I needed to update my credit card and a real person answered on the 2nd ring, generated a secure payment link in an email to me and then called back in 3 minutes to ensure problem resolution and my satisfaction. 

Another was over email. It was answered within minutes, elevated to a higher level and the profile problem was resolved within a few hours.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

hahathatsfunny said:


> While Fubo is generally more known as sports focused and often compared up against YouTube or Hulu Live TV, it appears from the channel lineup, that Fubo Family ($59.99) + Fubo Extra ($5.99) can be compelling for a Sling Blue with Total TV Deal subscriber, looking for a more premium experience over Sling, or looking to try out a slightly different selection of entertainment channels while still keeping others not present in even YouTubeTV, e.g. Hallmark.
> 
> Granted, if you do the math, that's $66 vs. $50 - $16 higher with Fubo. Both of these packages lack ESPN/ABC in commonality. Fubo has more sports channels, but both have a number of more specialty cable channels as well, which might be a factor for women viewers in general. The price point is also still closer to each other, than AT&T Now's $80/mo pricing.
> 
> And for that extra $16/month, Fubo's plan of 500 cloud DVR is 10 times more than Sling, and notably, Fubo has CBS and probably better coverage of NBC and Fox affiliates. Sling has FX/FXX/NatGeo though, although these are now Disney owned channels, so understandably to Fubo that it isn't carried there.


But why not just get yttv?

only reason I could see to get Fubo was Beos sports.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

SandiMacD said:


> I have had to contact Fubo twice now. Once I needed to update my credit card and a real person answered on the 2nd ring, generated a secure payment link in an email to me and then called back in 3 minutes to ensure problem resolution and my satisfaction.
> .


This doesn't sound like a positive. What happened to logging into your account and changing your cc number?


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## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

I initially tried Sling, but that had issues so I cancelled before the trial was done and tested out Fubo. I've stayed with them. I upgraded to the family plan to get the 3 streams and 500GB cloud DVR. I love the feature of being able to record the entire show even if I only caught the last few minutes. It has the ability to display two channels at once, though I wish it had multiview like Vue had. Was glad they added profiles.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

I started a one-week trial of Fubo TV, and think the app is pretty slick and it works well with a Roku device. I chose Fubo Family plus Fubo Extra plus AMC Premiere for the trial.

Channel selection wise, I like that it has most of the Philo channels plus Warner and NBC/Universal plus INSP plus Hallmark plus SONY/getTV plus Smithsonian Channel. However, for me, it's like going to a steak restaurant and liking the vegetarian sides but having to buy the steak to get it. I like the general entertainment channels but don't need the locals, the "news" channels, and sports channels, so likely will not keep it past the trial.

From a YouTube review video, it was mentioned the CEO of Fubo apparently views Hulu Live and YouTube TV as its direct competitors: cable replacement services. However, ABC and ESPN are missing in action and likely not to be added anytime. Without ABC in particular, it has just 3 of the 4 major networks. And it doesn't view Sling and Philo in the same consideration with Sling and Philo lean more cord-cutting oriented to cable. It'd be great for me if there was in an in between like an enhanced Philo package, or downsized Fubo (maybe impossible without sports) or improved Sling, etc. that still eschews some of the expensive sports channels but carries some more general entertainment content.

Vidgo didn't get a positive recommendation for use of channel changing and loading/searching content, even without a DVR.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

So fubo is adding Disney/ABC/ESPN but will be dropping Warner channels CNN/TBS/TNT/TCM:
fuboTV Will Add ESPN Channels This Summer in New Distribution Agreement with Disney | Cord Cutters News

WarnerMedia Gets Set To End FuboTV Carriage For 11 Of Its Networks - Deadline

While I'm not a fubo subscriber anymore,
fubo having ABC is more complementary to NBC, FOX and CBS already offered, than the Warner suite of channels. Not sure about the sports angle though since fubo is intended to sports viewers and TBS/TNT will presumably air live NBA games and other sports in the future.

CNN.com is pretty much CNN without a subscription needed. Also, it's leans too biased pro establishment Democrat. Also for election night, CNNgo will likely be free.

Anyways MSNBC is still carried for the left viewer. CNN went strong coverage alerting viewers to wipe down pasta boxes and other grocery packages because of coronavirus even though transmission from grocery items wasn't ever found to be a spreader of the virus.

As for TBS which I used to like a long time ago,
TBS seems to air a ton of Friends now. While I enjoyed it 20 years ago, I think it is overrated as a rerun now, and believe Warner is overrating the show even with lure of HBOMax.

Maybe fubo could add AXS TV/HDNet Movies and MGM HD/Light TV, in addition to the Disney/ABC channels. It might help alleviate some attrition when the channels get swapped, although in general, I think the Disney suite of channels is preferrable to the Warner ones. Also, dropping Warner will help keep its price points lower than having added those in addition to the Disney channels.


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

I agree, it's a sweet addition. I have watched the same election coverage on a local channel or MSNBC that is on CNN. Nothing lost there. 

We have OTA Tivo for local and PBS. 
Once or twice Fubo recorded the wrong CBS show and we had the TiVo as a backup but we rarely watch it any more for any reason. It's just way more convenient now to watch TV over Fubo on our devices in any room or anywhere we find ourselves. 

I been watching Tubi to watch movies instead of TMC. I can put up with the one or two 90 sec commercials. 
And Nat Geo is coming back so hubby will like Wicked Tuna access again. 

We were in the midst of recording Friends on one of the Turner stations. That show is now being carried by a different station. 

Fubo made is easy to find what stations are carrying shows we recorded on Turner station. They sent a link in an email to their customers. 

They are also raising their rate by $5 a month. Currently we pay $7 a month for a Disney plus. We we can drop that and save $2. 

I have been through channel package line up changes with others- Direct TV, Dish, Verizon and Frontier. So this is nothing new. It's not a game changer for me.


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## Rodney (Jan 26, 2002)

I also cancelled my subscription. TCM is one of the main channels I watch, and they were also moving me to the Family Plan which is more expensive. I'll move back over to Sling when my subscription ends later this month and then depending on what goes on with the NFL this season, I can always switch back to get all the sports channels, now that they have ESPN.

If FuboTV would have been able to keep TCM this would have been a no-brainer for me to keep, even with the rate hike.


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## lynncosbm (Dec 12, 2006)

I currently have fuboTV mainly because my husband is a big soccer fan. I’m not happy about the increase but am happy about the addition of ESPN. I cancelled cable a while back and this is still cheaper than cable so I’m keeping Fubo for now.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

TCM is one of the better if not best of the Warner channels. Unfortunately, it is tied to the rest of Warner.

TCM can still be obtained with Sling Blue plus Hollywood Extra at $35/month. The Sling On Demand did not have the content of the TCM or at least what is shown linearly. I wanted to try AT&T Watch TV to see if it did, but my Roku didn't support Watch TV, and I doubt it anyways.

As for fubo, the price increase is $5 but it's a bit more palatable than YouTube TV's $15 price increase. I was thinking that fubo could have probably dropped the ViacomCBS channels as well with CBS at least offered through CBS All Access, but it might be too much movement in one fell swoop and maybe backfired. But maybe they could have merged fubo Extra added the Disney channels and come out more profitable without Viacom and Warner.

But I think YouTube TV, AT&T TV and Hulu Live will position themselves as cable replacements but the base packages will continue to have high costs.

Sling, Philo and Vidgo (lacks a DVR) are going the cord-cutter more basic route.

Fubo could place itself as luxury above that of Sling and Philo, but not necessarily so pricey to the point of $60/mo base packages by exposure to the full greed in the linear space by having all of the major content providers.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Fubo is in the price same category as YTTV, ATV and Hulu Live.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

trip1eX said:


> Fubo is in the price same category as YTTV, ATV and Hulu Live.


Yes, but unlike the others, it has balls to drop channels (Warner) where YouTube/Google wants to be a cable replacement and doesn't want to go without any of the most popular channels. fubo could position itself slightly under those mentioned, as well in price, but above Sling for price/experience. There is a space in the middle not well covered, but it could be risky dropping Warner and say Viacom together but maybe necessary at some point. I don't think it has the name recognition as the ATTV, YTTV or Hulu Live, and likely won't for the time being.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

hahathatsfunny said:


> Yes, but unlike the others, it has balls to drop channels (Warner) where YouTube/Google wants to be a cable replacement and doesn't want to go without any of the most popular channels. fubo could position itself slightly under those mentioned, as well in price, but above Sling for price/experience. There is a space in the middle not well covered, but it could be risky dropping Warner and say Viacom together but maybe necessary at some point. I don't think it has the name recognition as the ATTV, YTTV or Hulu Live, and likely won't for the time being.


Others have dropped channels too. And don't even have certain channels in the first place.

Yes if they drop more channels they can lower costs and price but so can everyone else.

IF Fubo really wanted to lower price they wouldn't have signed up ABC and ESPN.  Doing that only raised their price.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

hahathatsfunny said:


> TCM is one of the better if not best of the Warner channels. Unfortunately, it is tied to the rest of Warner.
> 
> TCM can still be obtained with Sling Blue plus Hollywood Extra at $35/month. The Sling On Demand did not have the content of the TCM or at least what is shown linearly. I wanted to try AT&T Watch TV to see if it did, but my Roku didn't support Watch TV, and I doubt it anyways.


HBO Max ($15/mo) includes a section of classic films curated by TCM. Pretty impressive line-up. It doesn't necessarily include all the same films that TCM is airing in a given month but it's from the same film vault that TCM uses.

As for AT&T Watch TV, it's no longer taking new subscribers as of a few days ago. Step one in killing it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Fubo is just too expensive. The package that includes all the channels is basically the same as cable. It seems like we've just traded one over priced aggregator for another.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

NashGuy said:


> HBO Max ($15/mo) includes a section of classic films curated by TCM. Pretty impressive line-up. It doesn't necessarily include all the same films that TCM is airing in a given month but it's from the same film vault that TCM uses.
> 
> As for AT&T Watch TV, it's no longer taking new subscribers as of a few days ago. Step one in killing it.


Then it seems HBOMax is partially self-competing with the value added of the Warner's linear channels.



trip1eX said:


> Others have dropped channels too. And don't even have certain channels in the first place.
> 
> Yes if they drop more channels they can lower costs and price but so can everyone else.
> 
> IF Fubo really wanted to lower price they wouldn't have signed up ABC and ESPN.  Doing that only raised their price.


Besides RSNs, has Hulu Live or YTTV ever dropped a full suite of channels from a provider like fubo dropping Warner? I just get the feeling these bigger streaming providers won't be doing that but fubo being a more niche decided it was in its interest to drop Warner. I think ABC/ESPN is still more valuable than Warner. A lot has to do with ABC affiliates. At least here in Philly, WPVI is the most watched TV station newscast. Even if I get the 6abc app for local news, and Hulu (without LiveTV) for ABC programs viewable the next day, and have ABC News Live, they are good alternatives, but not as nice as having the ABC station streaming with the other major broadcast networks.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

trip1eX said:


> Others have dropped channels too. And don't even have certain channels in the first place.
> 
> Yes if they drop more channels they can lower costs and price but so can everyone else.
> 
> IF Fubo really wanted to lower price they wouldn't have signed up ABC and ESPN.  Doing that only raised their price.


Fubo's number one complaint has been where is ESPN, you're a sports service. They finally gave people what they wanted.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

hahathatsfunny said:


> TCM is one of the better if not best of the Warner channels. Unfortunately, it is tied to the rest of Warner.
> 
> TCM can still be obtained with Sling Blue plus Hollywood Extra at $35/month. The Sling On Demand did not have the content of the TCM or at least what is shown linearly. I wanted to try AT&T Watch TV to see if it did, but my Roku didn't support Watch TV, and I doubt it anyways.
> 
> ...


Greed or trying to show a profit. Most of these services aren't showing a profit.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

How is the DVR on this platform? Can you setup the equivalent of season passes for series? Can you visually fast forward/rewind with thumbnails? Does it have 15 or 30 sec skip forwards and backwards? Is it responsive?


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

hahathatsfunny said:


> Besides RSNs, has Hulu Live or YTTV ever dropped a full suite of channels from a provider like fubo dropping Warner? I just get the feeling these bigger streaming providers won't be doing that but fubo being a more niche decided it was in its interest to drop Warner. I think ABC/ESPN is still more valuable than Warner. A lot has to do with ABC affiliates. At least here in Philly, WPVI is the most watched TV station newscast. Even if I get the 6abc app for local news, and Hulu (without LiveTV) for ABC programs viewable the next day, and have ABC News Live, they are good alternatives, but not as nice as having the ABC station streaming with the other major broadcast networks.


All I said was Fubo is in the same price (point) as the YTTV, Hulu Live etc.


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

tenthplanet said:


> Greed or trying to show a profit. Most of these services aren't showing a profit.


I meant greed coming from the major content owners, e.g. Warner, Viacom. Specifically, by fubo carrying all major channels including Disney, Warner, Comcast, etc., it's setting itself up for full exposure those providers can hold over fubo. In that sense, I'm glad fubo added Disney but dropped Warner channels as its choosing to go in a direction to balance its programming costs.

The channel owners are generally raising their rates, but not providing much to show for it. Reruns with commercials. Little in way of original content. TBS's schedule of Friends all day or Viacom Paramount network's Bar Rescue marathons isn't justifiable for the price increases.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

hahathatsfunny said:


> I meant greed coming from the major content owners, e.g. Warner, Viacom.


I don't think it's fair to use the term greed. These people are simply doing business -- trying to figure out how to sell something to as many people as possible for as much as possible.

We spent a lot of time clamoring for a la carte options. Now that we have them, everyone is complaining that the a la carte options are incomplete or expensive.

While I rely on broadcast television for entertainment, I routinely add a subscription. I am extremely appreciative of the wide array of options and the consumer friendly price points. I am also aware that, for many, full blown cable packages make the most sense.


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## gkottner (Jun 5, 2010)

moyekj said:


> How is the DVR on this platform? Can you setup the equivalent of season passes for series? Can you visually fast forward/rewind with thumbnails? Does it have 15 or 30 sec skip forwards and backwards? Is it responsive?


Just started a Fubo trial yesterday (with family share and dvr plus), so here's what I have found so far. I have a Firestick 4K, TiVo Stream 4K, and a Roku Ultra. There are some major differences with the Roku app as compared to the Stream and FS.

DVR seemed to work fine on all devices. You can record NEW only or all episodes. You can delete episodes. I set up a pass for Law & Order SUV and it groups all the various channels together in your recorded list. The sort is newest episode number first and you can filter by seasons. I did not see a way to sort by date recorded. I have not looked at how VOD fits in there.

OK .. now the differences ..
*Android devices* FF and rewind using DPad - 15 seconds either way with each click. On FS, when you use the FF or RW buttons .. it shows elapsed time, but no visual preview. Actually there is no preview screen for any controls. Side note, there is a Stats for nerds type screen. Guide looks pretty much like YTTV. Filtering options are by date and category.

*Roku *In my mind they spent all their development on this app. 10sec, 20 sec, 1 min, 2 min and 4 min FF and RW with thumbnails. Also shows the elapsed time. The guide is awesome. They have descriptions for the shows in the guide. The highlighted show gives info at the top of the screen just as our TiVos do. Same filtering options as the Android apps. They even have the show descriptions in the recordings section too. Fonts are smaller there than with the Android devices. When watching TV, there is a last channel button so you can flip back and forth between 2 channels. 3-5 sec delay or so. You can set the app up to automatically start on the last channel you watched and choose to have Live TV play in the background when you're viewing the guide. There is no stats for nerds though.

For me, with Fubo dropping Turner and no RSNs, it doesn't have the right lineup for me so I won't continue past the trial. Also, in my totally subjective opinion, the picture doesn't seem quite as sharp or bright as other streaming services I have used. It's not awful, it's just not crisp.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

gkottner said:


> Just started a Fubo trial yesterday (with family share and dvr plus), so here's what I have found so far. I have a Firestick 4K, TiVo Stream 4K, and a Roku Ultra. There are some major differences with the Roku app as compared to the Stream and FS.
> 
> DVR seemed to work fine on all devices. You can record NEW only or all episodes. You can delete episodes. I set up a pass for Law & Order SUV and it groups all the various channels together in your recorded list. The sort is newest episode number first and you can filter by seasons. I did not see a way to sort by date recorded. I have not looked at how VOD fits in there.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for the great info. Looks like a hard pass for me having a Fire TV 4K and a TS4K (Android devices) based on the lack of thumbnails for FF/REW alone. And pricing wise it's about same as YTTV with DVR+ anyway, so doesn't sound like a good alternative to YTTV.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

I think I found a non-starter for me since I do not have any Apple or Roku devices.



> FuboTV: Channels, Pricing, Features, More About this Service | Digital Trends
> For most devices, DVR recordings only become available to watch one hour after the recording is finished, however, iOS devices, Apple TV, and Roku support *FuboTV's instant DVR* feature, which lets you begin watching as soon as you start recording


OTOH, this same article says:



> A common frustration among sports fans using streaming services is watching a game they're recording that is already in progress. What if you want to watch from the beginning? With the recently added Startover feature, you can jump back to the start of the game. This feature is currently in beta and available only on select channels and programs. It's only available on iOS, Android, Apple TV, and Roku devices, as well as the FuboTV website, with more devices set to gain support.


Is there someone who has (or has tried) Fubo TV that can tell me if you can start watching a catch-up program from the beginning after recording for an hour? Or do you have to wait 1 hour after recording before it is available? And this article says the beta is only available on select channels and programs. I don't have any issues like that with YTTV.

EDIT: From Fubo TV's Help:



> *How long is it before my Cloud DVR recording is available to watch?*
> 
> Your recordings can be played back from the beginning of the program immediately after starting to record.



EDIT: And Fubo TV's help does not come up with a search result for "Instant DVR" or the "Startover" feature. I guess I'll just have to test it to see if it works for me or not.


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## gkottner (Jun 5, 2010)

I have both Android and Roku devices and it works basically the same on both. Yes, you can jump into a recording before it is done. You can start from the beginning and have FF, pause and RW. The only thing is that if you view while recording, you do not have thumbnail previews. For this to work, you have to access the recordings from either the Recordings tab or the Recordings row under the Home tab. Under both methods, it is very clear what episodes are currently recording. If you try to access the program through the guide, you can only have controls from the live point of the show. 

It does appear that you can click on a show from the guide and from that point forward you can FF, RW, or pause whether you are recording the show or not. Some shows, and I have no idea what the criteria is, you can play from start with controls and skip commercials, even if not already recording. Also, unlike YTTV, when you click on a show, you go to an intermediate screen and can choose record or just play. There's also a Continue Watching row under the Home Tab if you want to resume watching. Easily deleted when you are done with the show. 

Since it's 7 days free, play around with it. The Roku has a far superior experience than Androids, but the app layout is pretty much the same for both.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

gkottner said:


> I have both Android and Roku devices and it works basically the same on both. Yes, you can jump into a recording before it is done. You can start from the beginning and have FF, pause and RW. The only thing is that if you view while recording, you do not have thumbnail previews. For this to work, you have to access the recordings from either the Recordings tab or the Recordings row under the Home tab. Under both methods, it is very clear what episodes are currently recording. If you try to access the program through the guide, you can only have controls from the live point of the show.
> 
> It does appear that you can click on a show from the guide and from that point forward you can FF, RW, or pause whether you are recording the show or not. Some shows, and I have no idea what the criteria is, you can play from start with controls and skip commercials, even if not already recording. Also, unlike YTTV, when you click on a show, you go to an intermediate screen and can choose record or just play. There's also a Continue Watching row under the Home Tab if you want to resume watching. Easily deleted when you are done with the show.
> 
> Since it's 7 days free, play around with it. The Roku has a far superior experience than Androids, but the app layout is pretty much the same for both.


Thanks!


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## hahathatsfunny (Jul 29, 2008)

wizwor said:


> I don't think it's fair to use the term greed. These people are simply doing business -- trying to figure out how to sell something to as many people as possible for as much as possible.
> 
> We spent a lot of time clamoring for a la carte options. Now that we have them, everyone is complaining that the a la carte options are incomplete or expensive.
> 
> While I rely on broadcast television for entertainment, I routinely add a subscription. I am extremely appreciative of the wide array of options and the consumer friendly price points. I am also aware that, for many, full blown cable packages make the most sense.


But fubo isn't an a-la-carte oriented service. It's trying to be a full cable tv replacement. While I believe it is competing in a market rife with greed from its content owners, I'll just leave it at that.

Another disadvantage over YTTV and Hulu Live, is it lacks FOX (and maybe other major) affiliates in Sinclair markets, it appears, not just the FOX RSNs.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

hahathatsfunny said:


> But fubo isn't an a-la-carte oriented service. It's trying to be a full cable tv replacement. While I believe it is competing in a market rife with greed from its content owners, I'll just leave it at that.
> 
> Another disadvantage over YTTV and Hulu Live, is it lacks FOX (and maybe other major) affiliates in Sinclair markets, it appears, not just the FOX RSNs.


I don't know how you got from what I posted to what you responded. I simply said it was unfair to characterize the marketplace as greed noting that in 2020 consumers have what they always said they wanted and remain dissatisfied.

I applaud Pluto, Fubo, Sling, and all the others for trying to bridge the gap between Netflix and Comcast.

That said, I would only watch two channels in the Fubo lineup.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

hahathatsfunny said:


> Another disadvantage over YTTV and Hulu Live, is it lacks FOX (and maybe other major) affiliates in Sinclair markets, it appears, not just the FOX RSNs.


Interesting. I didn't know that. But that makes sense given that the Fox RSNs are now owned by Sinclair.

Between YTTV, Fubo, and Hulu Live, all of them are comparably priced (once you pay for a decent cloud DVR and have access to at least 3 simultaneous streams). But they're all missing a few channels. Hulu Live has the fewest but then they have the core Hulu on-demand library, which is pretty great. But if you're not that interested in that, then it makes no sense to have Hulu Live. In that case, YTTV would seem to offer the best overall value for most folks.

I'm not sure what the typical Fubo subscriber looks like. Fubo started out mainly targeting sports fans but then they never had the ESPN channels. Now they're getting them but they've lost the Fox RSNs, many Fox locals, CNN, plus TBS and TNT, which carry a decent amount of sports. If you're willing to spend over $60 on a streaming cable TV package, you probably want your major locals, live sports, and cable news channels. And all things considered, either YTTV or Hulu Live looks like a better deal for most folks.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

gkottner said:


> Just started a Fubo trial yesterday (with family share and dvr plus), so here's what I have found so far. I have a Firestick 4K, TiVo Stream 4K, and a Roku Ultra. There are some major differences with the Roku app as compared to the Stream and FS.
> 
> DVR seemed to work fine on all devices. You can record NEW only or all episodes. You can delete episodes. I set up a pass for Law & Order SUV and it groups all the various channels together in your recorded list. The sort is newest episode number first and you can filter by seasons. I did not see a way to sort by date recorded. I have not looked at how VOD fits in there.
> 
> ...


Reviving this discussion from many months ago, I just signed up with Fubo TV since they are the only one of two streaming services I'm aware of that carry my local RSN NESN. I signed up for the cheapest $60 plan, meaning only a 30 hour DVR. I was hoping that the Roku device would be as good as it looks above in writing, but I find it also has some issues.

Although it does have thumbnails on finished recordings, there are no thumbnails on a live show or while a recording is in process. I personally like to chase a game so I can skip the commercials. So, that means, in most cases, I still have no thumbnails.

Also, when you mentioned the fast forward and rewind speeds, I was thinking this was an editable skip. But I now see exactly what you mean. The 1X, 2X, 3X, etc. correspond to the 10 sec, 20 sec, 1 min, etc. Unfortunately, the D-Pad skip is only 10 Seconds forward and back. That means 18 clicks for a 3 minute commercial! The TiVo Stream does have a 20 sec replay button and the D-Pad has a 15 forward skip and back, as you say.

Unless I'm missing something, with the Roku, I do not see the start times of the recordings. I do see that with the Firestick. Unfortunately, it seems the apps are all different, and it makes it very difficult to navigate when switching devices.

Here is a support letter I sent them today:


> Hi, I just signed up for FuboTV and I'm quite satisfied with the content. But I'm coming from YTTV and all of their platforms have thumbnails while skipping or FF/RW. It makes it terribly tough to see the end of a commercial without thumbnails.
> 
> And even more frustrating is that some of your platforms have 10 and 15 second skip forward, which should be 30 second skip forward, 10 second back. That is 6 clicks x 3 minutes of commercials or 18 clicks.
> With the Samsung app, the remote will not even skip or ff without first entering the program and pushing a ff/rw button.
> ...


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

We ditched the Apple TV, wouldn't stay connected even with Ethernet. Got a Samsung smart TV and remote was awful! No Rew/FF control and Fubo App not as good as on Apple TV. Ended up with the Roku USB stick from Amazon. Perfect! The remotes are voice controlled and can assign channel. Still with Fubo. It's a shame TiVo can't pair this streaming service. It would be a match made in heaven if the TiVo remote could handle the Fubo app.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

SandiMacD said:


> We ditched the Apple TV, wouldn't stay connected even with Ethernet. Got a Samsung smart TV and remote was awful! No Rew/FF control and Fubo App not as good as on Apple TV. Ended up with the Roku USB stick from Amazon. Perfect! The remotes are voice controlled and can assign channel. Still with Fubo. It's a shame TiVo can't pair this streaming service. It would be a match made in heaven if the TiVo remote could handle the Fubo app.


You just brought up a good point that I forgot about, I can voice command it to forward 3 minutes! Thank-You! Yeah, I don't think TiVo has any interest in adding anymore apps to their TiVo boxes. But, you are right about the Samsung app. What were they thinking?


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## brotony (May 9, 2020)

pl1 said:


> Reviving this discussion from many months ago, I just signed up with Fubo TV since they are the only one of two streaming services I'm aware of that carry my local RSN NESN. I signed up for the cheapest $60 plan, meaning only a 30 hour DVR. I was hoping that the Roku device would be as good as it looks above in writing, but I find it also has some issues.
> 
> Although it does have thumbnails on finished recordings, there are no thumbnails on a live show or while a recording is in process. I personally like to chase a game so I can skip the commercials. So, that means, in most cases, I still have no thumbnails.
> 
> ...


I can tell you that Fubo TV support is working these issues. You mentioned starting playback of games in progress and catching up; I was having issues with this jumping to end or live and spoiling outcomes on all platforms with exception of Roku. Not that Roku was superior; I could only buffer like 3 minutes of the content at a time, though I was more than an hour delayed from live.

So skipping commercials was not an option. This is what Fubo refers to Instant DVR. If you've not seen anything like then maybe that's fixed by now? (I'm also referring to quoted reply below).

For reasons above and timely convenience, I suspended my Fubo account and went to YouTube TV on the CCGTV YTTV discount promo; when Google had the recent outage, they appear to have restarted my promo from beginning after I asked for the credit offered to those experiencing the outage.

Since this Fubo TV Instant DVR issue wasn't yet fixed when I suspended, I've lost contact with the progress but the following addresses that concern and possibly yours. They are working this, they say. (Fubo response is in quotes below).

"We are so sorry for the delay on getting back to you. We are experiencing higher than normal contact volume.

Our engineers have issued a response to your concerns:

We are working to get more thumbnail previews on more platforms and channels, however this feature is limited right now. With that being said, it is available on most channels.

The Apple TV platform has the most support as of now.

We actually have this function on live streams with the instant DVR feature (when you playback a recording that is still airing live), however it works better after the recording is finished.

We understand also that getting used to the Siri remote can be a drag, but right now we support this way the most.

Apologies for the limitation.

Also, we are working on a "Follow Team" for sports record option very soon, so hopefully that comes out in the coming months.

Lastly, for the instant DVR fix, we are hoping to have a fix in the next app version coming out in the coming week, so we think that will resolve the timeline/instant DVR overflow issues.

We appreciate your understanding!"

(Note: the thumbnail issue with Apple TV is that the Siri remote is required for it; thumbnail view sadly isn't compatible with Logitech harmony hub and remote use in Fubo TV instant DVR or DVR playback. What adds to this frustration is that scrubbing with the Siri remote is too quick on the frame advance, requiring challenging fine motor skills. I see this with YTTV as well but thumbnail view isn't limited to Siri remote in YTTV.)

It's too bad none of these services offers to "TiVo out" commercial breaks. I've seen Hulu live TV do something similar with some ad breaks: a single skip on the Apple TV would jump to content resumption. But not all ad sessions are marked to do this. As I recall, this was only available would delayed from live while recording was still in progress. It's been a while for me.

I like that key play catch up feature for games in YTTV but wish it included more key plays. Skips too much action. Cloud DVR has potential but has a long way to go.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

brotony said:


> I can tell you that Fubo TV support is working these issues. You mentioned starting playback of games in progress and catching up; I was having issues with this jumping to end or live and spoiling outcomes on all platforms with exception of Roku. Not that Roku was superior; I could only buffer like 3 minutes of the content at a time, though I was more than an hour delayed from live.
> 
> So skipping commercials was not an option. This is what Fubo refers to Instant DVR. If you've not seen anything like then maybe that's fixed by now? (I'm also referring to quoted reply below).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input! I have had some issues where it says it can't play from the beginning, and it almost seems like it is recording things with odd hours that appear to be corrupt. And it doesn't seem to like a lot of trick play during "Instant DVR", which makes that "feature" useless. If I do lose games I'm counting on, I will definitely be out of there quickly! My problem is that no one is carrying my RSN now except for Fubotv and AT&T. I might have to go direct to the NHL app with a VPN.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

SandiMacD said:


> We ditched the Apple TV, wouldn't stay connected even with Ethernet. Got a Samsung smart TV and remote was awful! No Rew/FF control and Fubo App not as good as on Apple TV. Ended up with the Roku USB stick from Amazon. Perfect! The remotes are voice controlled and can assign channel. Still with Fubo. It's a shame TiVo can't pair this streaming service. It would be a match made in heaven if the TiVo remote could handle the Fubo app.


OK, I figured out why I wasn't expecting the voice remote to work for FF/RW. It does not work on Samsung or Amazon Firestick 4K. It DOES work on the Roku and the TiVo Stream 4K!


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

brotony said:


> It's too bad none of these services offers to "TiVo out" commercial breaks. I've seen Hulu live TV do something similar with some ad breaks: a single skip on the Apple TV would jump to content resumption. But not all ad sessions are marked to do this. As I recall, this was only available would delayed from live while recording was still in progress. It's been a while for me.


Have you taken a look at channels dvr? 
*Automatic Commercial Skipping*
Recordings get their commercials indexed, so commercials are automatically skipped.


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## brotony (May 9, 2020)

pl1 said:


> Thanks for your input! I have had some issues where it says it can't play from the beginning, and it almost seems like it is recording things with odd hours that appear to be corrupt. And it doesn't seem to like a lot of trick play during "Instant DVR", which makes that "feature" useless. If I do lose games I'm counting on, I will definitely be out of there quickly! My problem is that no one is carrying my RSN now except for Fubotv and AT&T. I might have to go direct to the NHL app with a VPN.


I know Roku was different for me. I didn't get much reply at all from Fubo support until I sent videos of the Instant DVR function I recorded from my phone while interacting with the instant DVR in my devices. I did forget to note that hours later, these recordings were normal; they worked as expected.

And when Fubo support says the thumbnail views are available on most channels and instant DVR recordings, I should have clarified: they're slow to appear when initiating on Apple TV 4K. I don't think they even populated for my on my Roku Ultra 4660. I think limited RAM on the Roku (1 GB vs 3 GB on the Apple TV) and speed of connection (200 Mbps here but measured at about 100 Mbps to Fubo TV with my new CCGTV advanced stats) are also factors to consider. But data I've collected seems to point at the instant DVR being insufficient and in need of improvement. I asked Fubo support to consider their 3rd party providers, if applicable. They should be asking themselves, "What can we do to get the equivalent of Philo or YTTV instant DVR to remedy these shortcomings?".

And trick play was the catalyst for be too. I'd press skip and most devices would jump to near end or live, whichever was relevant at the time. But I'm also guessing where it was jumping to. With NASCAR recordings, I'd usually see post race burnout, winner being interviewed at start finish line or cutting scene to commercial with the winner doing some victory celebration. Infuriating because it's hardly worth watching if the outcome is known in advance; I was just trying trying to skip intros and ads to get to the initial action (start of race).

Spoilers of all kinds exist for sports connoisseurs that like to delay live action just enough to skip ads and take in the action- I'll forget what I'm watching with an the nonsense ad breaks! Can't open my browser, read my google feed or pulldown my notification even (without spoilers). Do any of these services take feedback? Nope; business as usual.

I subscribe to NFL Gamepass but good luck trying to catch these replays in condensed version without these spoilers in play. I was even watching the ATP finals on ESPN and that scrolling NFL updates and scores while I was delaying that replay. Total nonsense; even the NFL app on most devices with exception being my PC, open the app and they've got forced auto play spoiling key plays or some talk head telling me why my favorite team lost and its key quarterback, players or coaches careers are over. These providers don't get it. I didn't ask for or want their spoiling or banter.

I saw your suggestion for channels DVR service. But I don't have a NAS server or a mounted antenna. I'm likely paying extra and not liking the terms of services because of that. I do like to follow multiple teams in the NFL though. But sometimes when there's a local outage, I'm glad my recordings are in the cloud and not getting that interruption that I'm experiencing.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

brotony said:


> And when Fubo support says the thumbnail views are available on most channels and instant DVR recordings, I should have clarified: they're slow to appear when initiating on Apple TV 4K. I don't think they even populated for my on my Roku Ultra 4660. I think limited RAM on the Roku (1 GB vs 3 GB on the Apple TV) and speed of connection (200 Mbps here but measured at about 100 Mbps to Fubo TV with my new CCGTV advanced stats) are also factors to consider. But data I've collected seems to point at the instant DVR being insufficient and in need of improvement. I asked Fubo support to consider their 3rd party providers, if applicable. They should be asking themselves, "What can we do to get the equivalent of Philo or YTTV instant DVR to remedy these shortcomings?".


I see that exact same thing with thumbnails using the Roku, albeit at 25 Mbps. It's useless for skipping, but it is OK for fast forwarding. At this point, I'm figuring I have to live without thumbnails and if it helps getting to the next period in a game, that's a plus. In hockey, the time between periods is 20 minutes, so I can also use voice.


> Spoilers of all kinds exist for sports connoisseurs that like to delay live action just enough to skip ads and take in the action- I'll forget what I'm watching with an the nonsense ad breaks! Can't open my browser, read my google feed or pulldown my notification even (without spoilers). Do any of these services take feedback? Nope; business as usual.


That's funny. It Reminds me of the times when a family member texts or calls to ask me about a game and the first thing I blurt out is "Don't tell me the score!" or "Why did you have to tell me the score?" Generally I avoid watching anything that COULD tell me the score while it is in process. Who wants to know that it is impossible for a team to score for the rest of the game?



> I saw your suggestion for channels DVR service. But I don't have a NAS server or a mounted antenna. I'm likely paying extra and not liking the terms of services because of that.


The idea is that you install it on an old PC with a good size drive. It does not have to be local stations. If you have a service like YTTV or Fubo or Sling, it logs in and records to your PC DVR. I don't like the idea of having to pay annually, since those streaming services already have their own DVR, but the commercial skip might be nice.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

I should also mention that the thumbnails on Sling TV are totally useless as well. In their case, they get out of sync with where you are in the show. So, while you are trying to skip forward, the thumbnail is a picture of the show while it is really during the commercial. And that is only for recorded shows (hardly any station has a buffer). Not to mention the lip-sync was generally off on almost every show I would watch. Only YTTV (of the three I've tried) works perfectly.


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## brotony (May 9, 2020)

pl1 said:


> I should also mention that the thumbnails on Sling TV are totally useless as well. In their case, they get out of sync with where you are in the show. So, while you are trying to skip forward, the thumbnail is a picture of the show while it is really during the commercial. And that is only for recorded shows (hardly any station has a buffer). Not to mention the lip-sync was generally off on almost every show I would watch. Only YTTV (of the three I've tried) works perfectly.


ESPN is much like what you described with ATV4K thumbnail views. I'm usually scrubbing with the same frame view from 1st ad through the entire replay. Every time I try to scrub past ads.

I don't think they care. They're likely, "laughing all the way; hahaha!". Just kidding. I've also complained for more than 2 years that ESPN has defeated the screensaver for the ATV4K and won't fix it. Half the time I call, the agent says we're not getting a large amount of complaints about this. Half the time they say, rest assured your complaint has been forwarded to tech. Nothing changes as time goes by. The app updates but doesn't fix anything. Also the reason I've cancelled ESPN+ 3 times now. They won't even take a hint.

When I discovered I can't even pause live TV on Sling, I told them surely you know this is a nonstarter for many would be subscribers? They must not care either. Cancelled. I'm so over take it or leave it terms. I can just go and be fine with it.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

brotony said:


> When I discovered I can't even pause live TV on Sling, I told them surely you know this is a nonstarter for many would be subscribers? They must not care either. Cancelled. I'm so over take it or leave it terms. I can just go and be fine with it.


The only way you can pause/skip/ff/rw on Sling TV is if you *FIRST record a show*. Then you have to start watching from the recordings menu. Only then will you get any trick play on most stations. And, if you start a program 1/2 way through, you get 1/2 of the show.

That is a huge plus with Fubo that it can record a 2 hour long show back from the beginning when there is only a minute left. Even YTTV does not do that. And, who knows if this isn't the reason for some of their problems. By being able to record back from the beginning of a show, they MUST be recording EVERY show playing at any time and distributing one centralized video to everyone. That could be why trick play doesn't work well until you own the show. Just a guess on my part as I really have no idea how it works.

Last night I was watching a show on Fubo TV and when I went to skip a commercial, the thumbnail was from a *hockey game!* I was previously watching a College hockey game, so I guess that's where it came from. At this point, I've decided to ignore the thumbnails entirely.

So my choice for a remote is the TiVo Stream 4K (I don't have the Nvidia Shield, but it's likely the same), because it has a functional D-Pad that will skip forward or back for 15 seconds, and by holding the D-Pad right or left, it will FF or RW, and it has voice control for FF and RW. It is only missing the useless thumbnails. And I would prefer the D-Pad would do 30 second skips.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

So, I have had Fubo for about a month now. I have had no real "must keep" recordings during the month, so it was no big deal when I lost a few games here and there. But, I don't like the fact that the DVR is not reliable (for example, YTTV is very reliable). The ONLY reason I signed up with Fubo was to get my local RSN NESN for hockey, which is supposed to start Jan 13, 2021. Since I do not trust the Fubo DVR at all, I decided to dump Fubo and go back to Sling (plus the NHL.TV package). 

I went to cancel today and I was offered a price of $9.99 (regularly $59.99) for the next month! Of course I'll take that.  I'm not sure if this is the standard $50 coupon offered upon cancellation, but if it is, getting two months for $70 is well worth it!


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

pl1 said:


> So, I have had Fubo for about a month now. I have had no real "must keep" recordings during the month, so it was no big deal when I lost a few games here and there. But, I don't like the fact that the DVR is not reliable (for example, YTTV is very reliable). The ONLY reason I signed up with Fubo was to get my local RSN NESN for hockey, which is supposed to start Jan 13, 2021. Since I do not trust the Fubo DVR at all, I decided to dump Fubo and go back to Sling (plus the NHL.TV package).
> 
> I went to cancel today and I was offered a price of $9.99 (regularly $59.99) for the next month! Of course I'll take that.  I'm not sure if this is the standard $50 coupon offered upon cancellation, but if it is, getting two months for $70 is well worth it!


Yeah i'm actually sampling Fubo now (my 3rd or 4th go around trying it out) and, within 2 days, it missed a good chunk of an NFL game on NFL network.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

gkottner said:


> *Roku *In my mind they spent all their development on this app. 10sec, 20 sec, 1 min, 2 min and 4 min FF and RW with thumbnails. Also shows the elapsed time. The guide is awesome. They have descriptions for the shows in the guide. The highlighted show gives info at the top of the screen just as our TiVos do. Same filtering options as the Android apps. They even have the show descriptions in the recordings section too. Fonts are smaller there than with the Android devices. When watching TV, there is a last channel button so you can flip back and forth between 2 channels. 3-5 sec delay or so. You can set the app up to automatically start on the last channel you watched and choose to have Live TV play in the background when you're viewing the guide. There is no stats for nerds though.


I purchased the Roku Stream Stick + after reading your post, not just because of the post, but also because the price was $29 vs. $49 at the time. I agree with many of your assessments, especially I like how you can rove through the menus while your show is playing in the background. Of all my devices, this is the only one that does that.

A month has gone by and my data in the last month with Fubo almost doubled my normal usage. Looking at how to reign in my data usage, I studied all my devices to see which ones could be bandwidth limited. A quick search for Roku and bandwidth limiter shows a quick code of (5x the home button), (3x the Rewind Button) and (2x the Fast Forward button). Voila, there is a hidden menu which allows a limit to the bandwidth used. Problem is, it won't stick, as confirmed by many complainers. So, that "hidden code feature" is useless.

My second problem with the Roku device on Fubo is that the D-pad only skips forward or back 10 sec. That is ridiculously short for skipping commercials. 3 Minutes of commercials requires 18 clicks! Oh, and rarely if ever do I see any thumbnails. What I have discovered is that the size of the recording affects the display of thumbnails. Most of my recordings are sports, and Fubo pads a two hour game another two hours (for some reason). So, there are no thumbnails since they are too delayed to even show up. If I record a 1/2 hour show, it is more likely to show a thumbnail. But, it is NOWHERE NEAR as accurate as Youtube or YTTV. And although Sling TV has thumbnails, they only work (delayed) about 1/2 way through a show before they are totally out of sync with what is actually showing.

Third thing I really dislike about the Roku with Fubo is that the D-Pad only does the skip and not FF/RW. You have to find the FF/RW buttons near the bottom of the remote. But the FF/RW buttons don't skip. It is something that I guess you could get used to in the dark, but for comparison purposes, the TSK4 uses the D-Pad to skip forward or back 15 sec, and holding the D-Pad Fast Forwards or Rewinds full speed. The Fire TV uses the FF/RW buttons to both skip and by holding the buttons, it also FF/RW. In each case, you can keep your fingers on the skip/FF/RW at all times without looking for anything on the remote. (I also have a Samsung TV. The Fubo App is totally useless on that, having no buttons that will Skip/FF/RW at all!)

Back to bandwidth limits, the android devices (including the TS4K and the Fire TV and sticks) all have a "Data Saver" option while watching a particular show. Unfortunately none of the devices I have allow for a global "Data Saver" option. I even downloaded an app from Google to add this, but the menu item still does not show up. They are planning to upgrade this in future releases. So for now, if I want to use the data saver (for example, watching a news channel on a small TV), I just have to go into the settings for that particular show, just like if I wanted Closed Captioning. There is also a "stats" on android devices so you can see how much data you are burning through.


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## pl1 (Jan 18, 2007)

Looks like Fubo TV has just gotten as expensive as AT&T TV if you want NESN (I guess even if you DON'T want NESN). Now I'm thinking I might go back to Comcrap for another two year special next season.



> In order to continue bringing you the best in sports programming, including NESN, coming this March, we will be adding an RSN (regional sports network) fee of $5/month to your bill
> 
> This will take effect on your next billing cycle following March 11, 2021.


EDIT: This link includes a list of all of the $5 RSN fees including AT&T, MSG & NESN


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

pl1 said:


> Looks like Fubo TV has just gotten as expensive as AT&T TV if you want NESN (I guess even if you DON'T want NESN). Now I'm thinking I might go back to Comcrap for another two year special next season.
> 
> EDIT: This link includes a list of all of the $5 RSN fees including AT&T, MSG & NESN


From your link.


> Even with the additional fee, it is still the least expensive option to stream the channel. Your only other option is AT&T TV Choice Plan which is $84.99 a month. With the additional fee, you can get the _Family Bundle_ in those markets starting at $69.99 a month.


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## roccorocco (Jan 9, 2021)

I just did the free trial with Fubo TV after reading fubotv reviews. Trying to decide between that and Youtube.

Easy interface to figure out. As stated before, the only downfall is no TNT, TBS, etc...

A ton of live sports offerings which is nice. The only issue I've encountered is it will sometimes take a while to start after turning the TV on. It's almost like it's a long load time or weird buffer. Once it starts up though, it's flawless.


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

roccorocco said:


> I just did the free trial with Fubo TV. Trying to decide between that and Youtube.
> 
> Easy interface to figure out. As stated before, the only downfall is no TNT, TBS, etc...
> 
> A ton of live sports offerings which is nice. The only issue I've encountered is it will sometimes take a while to start after turning the TV on. It's almost like it's a long load time or weird buffer. Once it starts up though, it's flawless.


I'm discovering a lot of variance between streaming services, the apps of the various devices, whether it's live or recorded and how the devices' response to the touch or the remote input.

I had a lot of delays with the Samsung TV/remote and Fubo app. As soon as I switched to the Roku remote to turn the TV on/off and used the Roku-Fubo app it worked within seconds.

It's definitely clunky to FF during a live show compared to TiVo. If its recorded then the thumbnails appear which makes it a bit easier. If I want to really skim something fast, I use my iPad. The touch screen is better at FF than any remote.

I have seen rumors online that advertisers are beginning to force streaming services into showing commercials making it impossible to FF through them. Hubby likes Top Chef and on Bravo. Bravo prevents any FF through any of their commercials on streamed content, even when recorded.

If FF is disallowed, it's back to cable for us I suppose.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

I signed upper Fubo TV recently and am really enjoying it. Fubo TV links with Channels DVR by way of TV Everywhere. 166 channels are working fine for me. This means the recordings get saved locally on my server and I have much better control of the live stream and buffer, using Channels' custom player. I do use the Fubo app specifically when I want to use Multiview. That's excellent.


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## SandiMacD (Apr 19, 2017)

I've not heard of TV Everywhere until your post. What is the benefit? Does it record/store streamed content from Fubo or Disney+ or Acorn so that is available at a future date? How are saving the streamed content locally? Or is TV Everywhere like Roku? Meaning it offers all the apps by using just one login to TV Everywhere.


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## Fofer (Oct 29, 2000)

TVE is best explained here: Channels - TV Everywhere
And here: TV Everywhere
It allows me to record from Fubo channels onto my local Channels DVR (and also lets me watch these channels live, using the Channels app, which has a better player interface IMO.)

For on-demand content from other providers like Disney+ and Acorn I either use their apps directly, or I record using PlayOn Cloud. The integration with Channels is pretty impressive: PlayOn Cloud

The list of providers I can record via PlayOn Cloud, which import to Channels DVR is:
Netflix
Hulu
Prime Video
Disney+
HBO Max
Peacock
Paramount+
Acorn TV
Starz
Showtime Anytime
VUDU
Xfinity
Spectrum
CW
CBS
NBC
ABC
FOX
PBS
Crackle
Tubi
YouTube
Roku Channel
BBC iPlayer


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