# Sky Hd



## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

I have just realised that you can but a SKY HD box with no subs on ebay for about £150, and you can get BBD HD without a SKY sub of any sort. You only have to pay the Sky HD £10 fee for the sky channels..

So for £150 I could have a HD box I can use for FTA and FTV HDTV, with no Sky sub??

I am right, or am I being stupid, and if I pay Sky for a basic channel package (NO HD) I can use the + functions for recording also (Now free from July with a valid sub).


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

I've also only just discovered that you can get a new Sky HD box on Ebay for half of what Sky charge (bearing in mind that Sky also insist on a £60 installation visit unless you have multiroom for which the visit will be free).

The BBC HD channel has no restrictions such as encryption so a Sky HD box with no card in it should allow the BBC's HD offerings to be seen and it's only a little expense to get the FTV card. 

I'm not sure if you can get the Sky HD channels just by paying the £10 for the HD - you may need to get a subscription that includes those channels (i.e. if you want Discovery HD, you'll also need to get the package that includes Discovery Channel).

Also, if you don't intend to subscribe to any of the Sky packages, you'll also need to pay a £10 monthly charge for the Sky+ functionality. It's true that they've now removed this charge for all packages, if you don't subscribe to Sky in any way, you won't get the Sky+ functionality without the £10 a month fee.

So your statement is true - basic package without HD will make your Sky HD box a Sky+ box which will also allow you to view and record the BBC HD channel (which actually is still a trial channel until it gets formal approval).


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I can see this strengthens the case for getting an HD television to replace my ageing 4:3 29" instead of a 32" or 36" widescreen CRT as I was previously thinking of doing. And although a 36" CRT widescreen is probably only £150 or so on Ebay its a hell of a lot of work arranging for picking it up with an estate car and then arranging for foolish volunteers to help carry it in to your living room. But then some people here claim only a £1500 Plasma is any good and anywhere near a CRT for quality but I can't justify spending more than £700 on one so the conundrum continues.

Really I wonder how the BBC and ITV are going to manage to sell their own HD boxes next year when you will never be able to get Eurosport, Sky One, Discovery etc on them. I suppose the main selling point will probably be also having a PVR Sky+ like facility with no monthly sub to pay at all.

If you can get a secondhand Sky box and then subscribe it when you want to for Sky channels or HD channels and watch BBC, ITV, C4 and Five channels in HD all the time for free (as and when ITV, C4 and Five start running an HD channel) then its surely a better bet than the BBC/ITV Freesat product. Or course getting Sky One HD or Discovery HD is going to cost you at least £25 per month extra as its £15 per month for two Sky Mixes and then another £10 per month for the Sky package channels you have subscribed to having their HD versions enabled.

I would still use the Tivo a lot but could see watching Formula 1 live in HD if, of course, ITV is allowed to actually show it in HD as and when it is available? It may of course be that HD Formula 1 will be used as a new attempt to sell F1 as a special very expensive subscription channel only available on Sky? I assume Bernie Ecclestone must have an HD F1 product already somewhere in the pipeline?


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

I can definitely recommend the Panasonic Viera 42in plasma... It hasn't shown a single digitally encoded HD bit yet, but the upscaling of standard definition is definitely excellent!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

aerialplug said:


> I can definitely recommend the Panasonic Viera 42in plasma... It hasn't shown a single digitally encoded HD bit yet, but the upscaling of standard definition is definitely excellent!


Is there also a 37" Viera? If so presumably its cheaper but otherwise just as good?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

This also strengthens the case for keeping my 29" 4:3 going for a year and then getting a 37" or 42" Panasonic HD set and a secondhand Sky HD box when prices are even lower and there is choice of HD on all five main terrestrial channels. Or don't Five have any HD related channel plans?

At the moment just one test BBC HD channel doesn't really justify all the hassle of making the change.

By the way what about the Samsung HD ready slimline CRT sets. Do they all give a really atrocious picture as they can be had for 300 quid or so as refurbs on Ebay.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

They did the F1 premium package on Sky Digital a few years ago.

Offered LIVE practice, quali, and race. With 8 screens to choose from, loads of incar screens to flick to with the coloured buttons. And the live TAG timings.

I think it cost £12 a weekend via sky. Had John Watson on commentry, he was great, remember himn from the old Eurosport days when they used to bradcast the F1.

If flopped, everyone just used ITV. They scrapped the idea and gave widescreen to ITV then..

Not sure about HD, I would think that Bernie would want a few million more for that, and as ITV are not even bothering with HD at the moment, I can never see them pay for it.

Found a old thread about it..
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=19146


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

6022tivo said:


> Not sure about HD, I would think that Bernie would want a few million more for that, and as ITV are not even bothering with HD at the moment, I can never see them pay for it.


Surely ITV must be coming out with HD soon or it wouldn't be considering the joint Freesat HD project with the BBC?


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

I found the problem with the interactive F1 was that the delay between screen switching - which was an equivalent delay to channel changing. 

I didn't use interactive football for the same reason. 

If it was similar to angle changes on a DVD then great - but it just isn't. 



Until ITV find a way of linking HD viewing with compulsory premium rate 'phone calls - then ITV HD will not happen.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Until ITV find a way of linking HD viewing with compulsory premium rate 'phone calls - then ITV HD will not happen.


If half the American imports ITV start buying are in HD what reason would they have to withhold it or is the HD version of any program more costly to buy than its SD counterpart at present? Obviously this is only likely to be a short term phenomenon until everything is in HD in 3 or 4 years time except for old programs.

Presumably HD programs aren't more expensive to broadcast are they (or perhaps they are as they take up more bandwidth)? The main expense is in recording them in HD for programs commissioned by the channel itself until HD filming equipments comes to be the norm instead of an expensive luxury.

Did you not also find the extortionate price of interactive F1 to be the problem? I mean at £12 a Grand Prix you might try it once for the novelty but would you keep buying it at £12 a race? At £3 per time you might think differently and be happy to pay the extra for a noticeably better service.

On the other hand mainly the interactive concept is all too fiddly for most people. I mean who views the extra BBC interactive Wimbledon matches compared to the most important current match on BBC and/or BBC2. I would suspect almost no one in comparison to all the extra time and effort that goes in to filming them and streaming the extra feeds to the BBC by satellite and then finally broacasting them.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

I'm not sure ozsat was being _entirely_ serious you know, Pete


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

I've got an old Sky Digital dish stuck on the side of my house. Would it be as simple as just plugging the coax from the dish into this box?

I take it I can't use the internal HDD without a sub - or can I use it like a boat anchor TiVo?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

terryeden said:


> I've got an old Sky Digital dish stuck on the side of my house. Would it be as simple as just plugging the coax from the dish into this box?
> 
> I take it I can't use the internal HDD without a sub - or can I use it like a boat anchor TiVo?


I would imagine that should be fine if all you want to do is watch BBC HD programs live for free. However £150 seems a lot to pay for such a limited range of HD content.

My understanding is Sky+ recording doesn't work at all unless you are paying the appropriate sub.

Even when you are paying it for it then it still often doesn't work properly.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cwaring said:


> I'm not sure ozsat was being _entirely_ serious you know, Pete


I realise the Premium Rate call issue was a joke but I think he was serious as to how much HD content will ITV bother with unless there is something in it for them.

On the other hand they have to find a way to keep people watching ITV and not tuning in to HD Sky One or HD Discovery instead and that is probably why they won't charge any extra for HD.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

SKY + / HD require two feeds, so check the dish and see if it is a quad LNB, or a single..

No HDD functions without a sub, so no live pause or manual recording (Sky are arseholes)

You can currently get SKY for half price for the first 12 months, so a basic package at half price, basic sky+ is free with any package. You can get a HD from sky for half price also £149. 

IMPORTANT, you must tell sky although you are using a HD box, you do NOT want the SKY HD channels and not pay the £10. The system automatically takes it otherwise.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

interactive is excellent for selection of different events - like tennis court selection or different football matches - but not camera switching.



ITV don't do anything anymore if it doesn't link to interactive 'phone profits


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

ozsat said:


> Until ITV find a way of linking HD viewing with compulsory premium rate 'phone calls - then ITV HD will not happen.


I don't know about that... ITV is acctually providing an experimental DTT HD service in the London area - people with specially provided Freeview boxes are about to get the ITV programmes on a frequency shared with Five and Channel 4. Although each channel has a separate channel on guide pages (visible but not recieveable on most DTT tuners), they share evenings, with a broadcaster getting an evening or two a week to show their programmes.

The BBC have their own DTT frequency and are simulcasting the service provided for Sky HD customers on the Freeview platform.

No commercially available recievers are able to recieve the MPEG4 HD transmissions - though apparently people have managed to recieve them using PC based recievers with special modifications to the software.

500 volunteers were provided with specially produced recievers, made exclusively for the trial and presumably will have to be handed back when the trial is over.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

ITV HD trials have stopped now - did months ago. All DTT trials of HD have finished as BBC closed a few weeks back


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

aerialplug said:


> No commercially available recievers are able to recieve the MPEG4 HD transmissions - though apparently people have managed to recieve them using PC based recievers with special modifications to the software.


This all sounds horribly connected with Ofcom's announcement today that it will be launching a consultation on Sky's and National Grid's now apparently renewed joint venture proposal to have a pay MPEG4 (and therefore probably also HD) service on DTT instead of its three current free Freeview Sky channels.

I had thought that proposal was now a dead duck but it seems the insertion of Sky's former Communications Director as the new Communications Director of Ofcom has some how managed to alter Ofcom's thinking to Sky's distinct commercial advantage.    

We all know that when Ofcom consults on something it has usually already made up its mind what it wants to to do and it then conveniently ignores any feedback to the consultation received from the public, who were not of course party to its secret pre-discussions with commercial parties in the industry before the consultation document ever saw the light of day.  :down: :down: :down:

See www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2007/06/nr_20070626


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## the_hut (Dec 31, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> This all sounds horribly connected with Ofcom's announcement today that it will be launching a consultation ...
> 
> I had thought that proposal was now a dead duck but it seems the insertion of Sky's former Communications Director as the new Communications Director of Ofcom has some how managed to alter Ofcom's thinking to Sky's distinct commercial advantage.
> 
> ...


Looking through your posts on this thread, it is fairly breathtaking to see how you managed to derail it into a generalised and unsubstantiated rant against individuals that happen to work at Ofcom and Ofcom's general professionalism.

I'd suggest there are other places to discuss such issues, and here is not one of them.

In particular, there are numerous links on the website you cite which would enable you to make direct complaints about Ofcom's handling processes, without doing so in forums such as these which are unconcerned with such matters.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

the_hut said:


> Looking through your posts on this thread, it is fairly breathtaking to see how you managed to derail it into a generalised and unsubstantiated rant against individuals that happen to work at Ofcom and Ofcom's general professionalism.


So are you the sock puppet sitting on the hand of TCM2007, Rob Nespor Bellis, iankb or pgogborn? Or possibly its ndunlavey, although I find the_hut's posting style to be a bit deep for that to be very likely.

Is there anything in the forum rules about the total number of posts a member can make in a day, week or month? No I thought not and you will also find my posting rate very modest indeed compared to many leading US Tivocommunity members, especially those who have over 20,000 posts to their name.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Here we go again... :down:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> Here we go again... :down:


Sorry Colin but it even says "alleged sock puppet" in the member profile for the_hut.

Also over several years I have only seen the_hut surface in order to make a sudden acerbic post of one form or another.

This is not an unknown forum phenomenon. At the www.airdisaster.com forum there are little used members called GeorgeWBush and BabyHiJane who only ever surface when a frequently posting member of some kind wishes to make an unattributable comment anonymously.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Pete77 said:


> ... I have only seen the_hut surface in order to make a sudden acerbic post of one form or another.


So what was your normal persona then Pete, before you surfaced as Pete77 ?


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> So are you the sock puppet sitting on the hand of TCM2007, Rob Nespor Bellis, iankb or pgogborn? Or possibly its ndunlavey, although I find the_hut's posting style to be a bit deep for that to be very likely.


Incredible. Truly uncanny

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3145410&&#post3145410


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## Rob Nespor Bellis (Feb 17, 2001)

Ah, I miss all this since Pete77 went on to my ignore list.

I find myself thinking of the old joke about Sheepshagger John:

A man goes into a pub in a small town and, for whatever reason, gets introduced to the clientele. Theres Farmer Jack, Barman Jim, Maurice Dancer and Sheepshagger John. After a few pints, the visitors curiosity gets the better of him and he asks John whats with the nickname.

See this pub? asks John, I built it, but they dont call me Pubbuilder John? Im the local doctor, I saved Barman Jims life once when he choked on a peanut, but they dont call me Lifesaver John. Every year, I supply a huge Christmas tree for the village green, but the dont call me Christmas Tree John.

But you shag one lousy sheep

Many of the people here have spent a lot of time putting back into the community, they have a large body of knowledge borne out from years worth of experience, it's a shame that some people don't ( or can't ) recognise that or indeed respect that ( as some of the hacks given life here are truly worthy of respect. ) In fact the joke doesn't really relate to this situation at all ( other than I like it ) as the people who get attacked haven't ( at least metaphorically ) shagged a sheep.....

Rgds,

R.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Incredible. Truly uncanny
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3145410&&#post3145410


What an extraordinary similarity in posting style; well spotted Mr Majere!


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## mjk (Mar 13, 2002)

Indeed, very scary.


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## Prat77 (Apr 14, 2007)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Incredible. Truly uncanny
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3145410&&#post3145410


Wow - that's an amazing thread, and quite an eye-opener! Thanks for the link.


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## Andy Leitch (Apr 30, 2005)

Raisltin Majere said:


> Incredible. Truly uncanny
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3145410&&#post3145410


Wouldn't it be weird if Captain Scarlet logged in after all this time and suddenly deleted his posts?


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## hokkers999 (Jan 5, 2006)

6022tivo said:


> They did the F1 premium package on Sky Digital a few years ago.
> 
> Offered LIVE practice, quali, and race. With 8 screens to choose from, loads of incar screens to flick to with the coloured buttons. And the live TAG timings.
> 
> ...


And I remember the days when Eurosport used to broadcast the F1 race starting at 8 in the morning with the pit walk rounds, qualifying, support races and a ton of other stuff. Then along come ITV and bang it all disappears. don't bother watching it now.


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

It was great wasn't it on Eurosport, John Watson was very good as well.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

6022tivo said:


> It was great wasn't it on Eurosport, John Watson was very good as well.


European Eurosport was great, especially the ads. This British Eurosport lark ruins the whole channel by filling it up mainly with football.  :down: :down: :down:


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