# Tivo and a NAS box



## gumboe (Jul 11, 2004)

I've got a couple of is it possible/has anyone done the following questions.

1) Is it possible to have my recordings go to a NAS box? Obviously I would need to open the Tivo up and install a network card. I could then get a second Tivo and they could both share the NAS and the recorded programmes on it.

2) Is it possible to replace the PATA disk in a Tivo with some kind of solid state disk. This in conjuntion with the above would allow my Tivo to run silent in my living room.

I'm noticing the sound of the disk in the Tivo more and more.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I believe somebody in the US may have attached a NAS to a single TiVo, but it would be a great deal of hassle, and having two TiVos share the same disk is a total no-no!

You could possibly use the "synch now playing" hack if you fitted network cards to both TiVos....

If your drive is too noisy, get a Samsung HA250JC :up:


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

There's been a discussion recently about solid state disks , I think the consensus was that it wouldn't be possible/good.

And do you mean for tivo to actually write the recordings to a NAS? I don't think that would be possible. Obviously, with a little intervention you could get them there though.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

You can only use an NAS in terms of using a PC application like TyTools to push all your recordings off your Tivo and on to the NAS. But you won't then be able to play the recordings directly off the NAS on the Tivo. They would have to be restored to the Tivo drive to watch them on the Tivo. Having said that you could watch the .ty version of your extracted Tivo recordings directly from the NAS on a PC or a PC device that can stream to a tv screen using an application such as VLC Media Player.

Near silent Tivo operation in your living room can be achieved by installing an expensive 250Gb Samsung HA250JC hard drive or a more reasonably priced 400Gb Samsung HD LD hard drive in your Tivo. Seagate drives are not far behind for quietness.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

TiVo doesn't store its recordings as files, the database contains pointers to the blocks on the disk which represent each section of the recording. It's therefore impossible for two TiVos to share the same disk.

It is possible to use a PC based server (as opposed to a NAS) to hold .ty files and to use a hack I wrote to play recordings from it, but it's a bit clunky.

I use eTivo to copy everything off a TiVo, convert it into a compressed file, and then serve that to the network, but it's not real time.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

I store my .ty files on my PC and watch using an Xbox running XBMC. A very cheap solution I got my Xbox from Ebay for &#163;25 and spent about &#163;10 on the bits needed to softmod.
Its a great addition to the AV setup


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

gumboe said:


> I'm noticing the sound of the disk in the Tivo more and more.





RichardJH said:


> I store my .ty files on my PC and watch using an Xbox running XBMC.


I was under the impression that Xboxes old and new are pretty noisey devices - is that not the case or is there a way to tame them?
I've been put off looking at MCE and extenders or XBMC as I couldn't live with a noisey box under the TV.


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## verses (Nov 6, 2002)

AMc said:


> I was under the impression that Xboxes old and new are pretty noisey devices - is that not the case or is there a way to tame them?
> I've been put off looking at MCE and extenders or XBMC as I couldn't live with a noisey box under the TV.


I too have been tempted by the XBMC, but I'm not only put of by the potential noise, but also how ugly* the boxes are. I'm not normally someone who's that fussed about how things look, but the Xbox looks like the Nostromo from Aliens looming at you from under the telly!

Xbox vs Nostromo

Although I guess you could do something cunning to hide it and leave the IR receiver showing.

Ian

* Not trying to troll, I'm just not keen on it myself.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Xbox 360's are noisy, but not so much if you aren't reading a DVD and/or playing 3D-intensive games. The fan is temperature-sensitive, and normally slows down for MCE extender use.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

I


> Originally Posted by AMc. I was under the impression that Xboxes old and new are pretty noisey devices - is that not the case or is there a way to tame them?
> I've been put off looking at MCE and extenders or XBMC as I couldn't live with a noisey box under the TV.


XBMC enables you to control fan speed by fan speed over-ride or you can choose auto temperature control and set the desired temp before fan cuts in.


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

iankb said:


> Xbox 360's are noisy,


I think this is about the Xbox1 running XBMC though (£35 solution), rather than Xbox 360 and MCE which is rather more 

A friend did the same - bought Xbox1 from Ebay and installed XMBC. It's brilliant overall although the playback of ty files isn't perfect, but the value for money at Ebay prices is astonishing. He bought one of the clear case versions which is slightly less ugly. But yes, the fan that comes with it is really loud.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> playback of ty files isn't perfect


I agree but converting them to mpeg using tytools or other methods seem to improve it.

I have a 200gb HD in my Xbox so I am going to put some of the files so that I can play straight from Xbox and see if they play any better.

Having stuff on the Xbox HD eg photos is great for taking round to relatives house to show them all the photos on there own TV


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Can I slightly expand the topic?

Has anyone tried using a NAS box for torrenting?

I've done a rudimentary search and there is a NAS box that comes with a BitTorrent client already installed, but it's about £100 more than every other box.

Can anyone think of how one might install a BitTorrent client onto a 'vanilla' NAS box?

It would be so handy as both a BitTorrent server and a media server, and would save energy as one's PC could be turned off more often.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

The torrenting ones are Linux boxes which can run the client. I doubt it's possible on a box not designed to do it from the outset unless it's been hacked.

I'd also think it may be problematic as the best trackers are quite selective about the clients they support, banning older versions of common clients. Or so I'm told


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

There's torrent clients in some of the DD-WRT fimware variants, not tried them though:
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Optware


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

Twonky is supported or preinstalled on a number of NAS devices.
The list at this address may indicate the more hackable devices to narrow your search
http://www.twonkyvision.com/Products/TwonkyMedia/nas.html

I was put off by comments about problems managing large (music) libraries with limited processing so opted for an old low power PC. An HP eVectra PIII 450MHz running Win2K - only consumes 30W at 100% CPU so isn't much more hungry that a wireless access point when idling away. Has the advantage of a full windows OS or Linux if that's your bag. The PC was free and a new big hard drive was cheaper than a NAS.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

I suspect Windows Home Server will be a good solution too, although I haven't got around to trying it yet.

I particularly like the automated backups of every PC on the network, made preactical by storing only one copy of files duplicated between machines. And the thing appearing as a single disk, which can be expanded by just plugging in a USB hard disk to the server.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> I suspect Windows Home Server will be a good solution too, although I haven't got around to trying it yet.


For those to whom cost is not a factor in considering any purchase.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> I suspect Windows Home Server will be a good solution too, although I haven't got around to trying it yet.


There was the usual thorough examination of WHS in PCPro, which has *turned up on their website*.

Maybe that would a BitTorrent solution, if you could build a low power/noise machine?

[Edit] A quick Google reveals *A µTorrent client for Windows Home Server* and 
How to *Build a BitTorrent box* using Ubuntu.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> For those to whom cost is not a factor in considering any purchase.


£70-odd quid OEM


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> £70-odd quid OEM


Just for the software license? So that would be £70 on top of the price of a normal NAS?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

No, WHS runs on a PC, turning it into a super-NAS. You can either buy a dedicated box, or (more likely for this forum's members) install it on an old PC you have lying around.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> No, WHS runs on a PC, turning it into a super-NAS. You can either buy a dedicated box, or (more likely for this forum's members) install it on an old PC you have lying around.


At the end of the day for home use (especially single home users like me) I still reckon on an online backup solution like AOL's www.xdrive.com or the more pricey BT Digital Vault is of more practical use to most people.

The new Microsoft Home Server software only protects you against hard drive failure but if you are burgled and all your PCs stolen or if you are flooded out or your place is burnt down by fire you still lose all your data on all your PCs. Or indeed if even a malevolent or crazed teenager or soon to be ex-wife has it in for you then you lose all your data.

It seems to me that backing up crucial documents, emails, word files etc, etc online automatically and securely (i.e. password protected) with no ongoing work by the end user has to in fact be the way to go and that a server at the home address does not help much because all your data is still in one place and can be written off by just one emergency event.


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

I think you have totally misunderstood this...as usual...or are just deliberately dragging this useful thread off topic. The topic is *NAS* NOT *backup*. The online *backup *services are for the odd file, not as the OP was talking about storing & serving media files. I use lots of external HDD's to serve media & WHS looks like a brilliant add on for me. 1 single DvD rip is about 5GB so as far as your suggestion goes it it is not only totally useless but a complete waste of your time writing it & everyone else's time reading it & having to trawl through your posts. Can I suggest using the General Chit Chat forum if you want to discuss the merits of online backups & leave this thread for what it is intended for. Thank you.

Martin


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Dear Martin,

The subjects of home backup and online backup are very closely inter-correlated and it seems pedantic in the extreme to claim my comments are off topic.

If you have a BT wholesale business based broadband internet connection running at over 800k or even a conventional connection at 448k a huge amount of material can be backed up offsite, albeit that the inital backup might take rather a long time.

Thus this seems an entirely relevant comment to make in the context of this thread.


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

"Frustrated sigh" The OP was not talking about backup!!! You cannot serve media files from any online backup provider. May I humbly suggest you re-read the OP & please only comment on this thread (or any other) when you have something useful to add. Again many thanks. I am sorry if you feel that I was being rude but that was merely born out of frustration at your continued dragging of useful threads of topic. I do not want to start a long argument here so this will be my last post on the matter.

Martin


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## Calmic (Mar 30, 2004)

This topic seems relevant for what I would like to do - I've got a draft n network with a QNAP NAS (which does have bittorrent built in, but I rarely use it as it doesn't have scheduled bandwidth throttling - much easier to use uTorrent running on a laptop).
I'd really like to make my Tivo recordings available to the network (as a share) and make that and other shares available to my tv sets.

So: 
1. is there a wireless network card for Tivo that supports draft n (or at least WPA2 security?
2. would I be able to set the Tivo drive up as a windows network share?
3. would this allow me to view Tivo recordings on other attached devices?
4. (slightly off topic) what devices are there that allow wireless access to browse the network and playback media files through a simple scart out? (I.e. nothing fancy like recording, etc...)

Should I just forget about it?


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## martink0646 (Feb 8, 2005)

Calmic said:


> This topic seems relevant for what I would like to do - I've got a draft n network with a QNAP NAS (which does have bittorrent built in, but I rarely use it as it doesn't have scheduled bandwidth throttling - much easier to use uTorrent running on a laptop).
> I'd really like to make my Tivo recordings available to the network (as a share) and make that and other shares available to my tv sets.
> 
> So:
> ...


To answer these as far as my knowledge allows; (a real expert will come along soon to confirm or deny)

1. yes there is called Airnet. But, it is very slow, Wireless 'B' I think. Most people use a wired network connection, Turbonet/Terbonet or a Cachecard. If your TiVo isn't near the router then you can use a wireless bridge/gaming adaptor.

2. No AFAIK. As TCM pointed out earlier in the thread, even if you could get the TiVo drive recognised (which I don't believe is poss) recordings aren't held as single files.

3. There are ways off taking TiVo recordings off the TiVo & converting to useable files but we can't talk aboult such things on this forum. Go to www.de*ldatab*se.com & there is a huge amount of info. A word of warning though, search thoroughly, they aren't newbie friendly if you haven't done your research.

4. If I understand your question, there are lots of new streaming devices. I would google 'media streaming'. Not many will have SCART output though. Can you use other outputs?

Martin


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

> 4. (slightly off topic) what devices are there that allow wireless access to browse the network and playback media files through a simple scart out? (I.e. nothing fancy like recording, etc...)


Xbox running XBMC does the job nicely


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

I use modded Xboxes for both.

I use a modded Xbox running XBMC for streaming all my video needs. While XBMC can upscale to 720p (or 1080i) it can't play back HD material. It also uses component rather than DVI / HDMI. It does stream from the TiVo using CCXStream.

I use a modded Xbox running Xebian (a Linux system) as my NAS. It runs samba so I see all the files on there, and rtorrent to download all my Bit Torrent files. It takes IDE disks - I've got 120GB in there, but it's easy enough to put in 2 * 500GB.

If it is possible to get TiVo to mount NFS / Samba shares (and I think it is), a NAS could be used as extra disk space. It would take a lot of work and you'd need to make sure that the TiVo could always find the NAS.

Far better to stick a couple of solid state 1TB drives in the TiVo. With the &#163;:$ ratio, they're nearly affordable.


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## Calmic (Mar 30, 2004)

Martin, Richard, Terry - thanks very much for your advice!

I think I'll give up on the idea of sharing Tivo recordings to other devices for now, but using an XBox as the streaming media player sounds like it might be a good option for me.
Ta!


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> At the end of the day for home use (especially single home users like me) I still reckon on an online backup solution like AOL's www.xdrive.com or the more pricey BT Digital Vault is of more practical use to most people..


Eh? We weren't talking about backup solutions, but about central data storage. Different. You still need a backup solution for your central data storage.

I may have misled you by mentioning WHS's backup facility which lets it backup centrally local PCs data, but that's only one of its functions.

As for online backup, its very expensive for reasonable amounts of data. My "must not lose" data nearly fills a 120Gb external disk, so would cos ta fortune for online backup.

Of course that probably doesn't matter to someone from a well off background like yourself.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Of course that probably doesn't matter to someone from a well off background like yourself.


My must not lose data seems to be only just over 4Gb in total perhaps because I consider tv recordings as things I can lose and have not dabbled in buying MP3 music and the like and do not take many digital photos,

For all that lot the free 5Gb storage www.xdrive.com seems to adequately fit the bill. Of course I do have backups to DVD as well and a compressed backup of the data and operating system on my whole hard drive to another USB hard drive. However I am just realistic that in the event of fire or flood at home all the home based backup media could go missing. That is why something like www.xdrive.com is useful for the really critical stuff. They will sell you 50Gb storage for 100USD per annum. Surely not much to a man in your position TCM.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

If you've no music or photos, those services are probably fine. I don't think I have any data which I could not live without which _isn't _music, photos or home videos!


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

If its lots of online storage you want, try:
www.humyo.com - *unlimited* online storage.
There are a few companies who rebrand that service (including Currys)

For NAS I'd look at unraid -which lets you put lots of different size disks in a PC, and hame them merged into one volume.You can lose any one disk and retain all data.So its a kind of JBOD meets raid5. 
Costs $69 for the 6 drive version, or $99 for the 16 drive version.

To the OP about drive noise - buy a samsung drive and you probably won't hear it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> If its lots of online storage you want, try:
> www.humyo.com - *unlimited* online storage.


But at present Humyo has this to say about how files are transferred to their servers:-



> *Is it possible to access my space via FTP? *
> 
> At present all access is through the web interface. We will shortly offer an application for Windows which allows you to access your humyo like a regular drive on your PC so FTP access is not needed to use humyo.com


So for the time being one cannot easily backup up one's data to their servers without a third party application of the PC World kind.

As and when its possible to map the space like a drive letter and they offer something equivalent to XDrive Desktop and I can back up my entire drive with Norton Ghost then I may well be interested.


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> If its lots of online storage you want, try:
> www.humyo.com - *unlimited* online storage.
> There are a few companies who rebrand that service (including Currys)


Those of us who BitTorrent regularly know just how long it takes to upload large amounts of data.

If you have GBs of multimedia, as many of us do, it would take weeks to upload.

If you want off-site backup, backup to an external HDD and take it to work, your sister or wherever; 
it'll be a lot quicker than uploading over current broadband.

Having said that, humyo looks interesting. :up:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ericd121 said:


> If you want off-site backup, backup to an external HDD and take it to work, your sister or wherever;
> it'll be a lot quicker than uploading over current broadband.


The problem with that is that the hard drive at your sister's or wherever is always out of date by 3 months or 6 months when your hard drive fails or your notebook PC is stolen.

The best compromise is to have online backup but only use it to backup really critical word documents and emails that are disastrous to lose. Other large bit-torrent files etc don't usually really need backup up or at least not that often.

Also Bit-Torrent is slow due to how it works. Direct online backup to a backup site isn't as slow as that although obviously still a lot slower than downloading.


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## Raisltin Majere (Mar 13, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Other large bit-torrent files etc don't usually really need backup up or at least not that often.


You spend x hours dwnloading something and then smile when you lose it 



Pete77 said:


> Also Bit-Torrent is slow due to how it works. Direct online backup to a backup site isn't as slow as that although obviously still a lot slower than downloading.


I'm no BT expert, but surely if you have enough peers downloading from you to max out your upload then it's no slower than any other protocol?


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## ericd121 (Dec 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Also Bit-Torrent is slow due to how it works.


No, BitTorrent is *fast* due to how it works. As you can see from my post, I was talking about uploading large amounts of data; this can often max out my uplink: therefore, I know roughly how much data can be sent from my PC to the outside world.


> Direct online backup to a backup site isn't as slow as that although obviously still a lot slower than downloading.


Once your uplink is maxed out, it matters not what protocol is being used.

I suppose compression might be a factor, but multimedia file are often already compressed.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Also Bit-Torrent is slow due to how it works. Direct online backup to a backup site isn't as slow as that although obviously still a lot slower than downloading.


Bittorrent is as fast as its possible to be, usually using the full bandwidth of your connection up and down (so long as there are enough peers).

[Sorry disn't read Eric's reply!]


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