# Any members actually work at DTV?



## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

I'm looking for anybody that works there for I have an interesting question to ask privately.


If anybody does, could you respond via PM?

I'm really not too sure one exists here, but you gotta ask!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I don't know of any active member that has admitted it. We've had some claim to be DirecTV employees but it was dubious. One member I know was employed there is no longer.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

That is why I asked for a PM to keep it quiet. I'm trying to get my questions answered since calling DTV is a waste of time. Maybe I'll have better luck here.

Thanks!


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

E. Bonavich may be your best bet for answers.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Earl (ebonovic) is not a DTV employee. I suppose it can't hurt to ask to see what his opinion is.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

stevel said:


> Earl (ebonovic) is not a DTV employee. I suppose it can't hurt to ask to see what his opinion is.


Didn't say he was, but he is like a DirecTV God. May be OP's best bet.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

No help there. Tried that already before I posted this. Looking for someone else.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

Scott D said:


> No help there. Tried that already before I posted this. Looking for someone else.


Try Incog-neato. Not a DTV emp. either.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Several DirecTV employees post on DBSTalk and a couple are even "out of the closet".

If you post your problem on DBSTalk you may get one that PM's you out of the blue, it has happened.


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## GuidoTKP (Feb 22, 2004)

PM me 


Sorry I guess I should have put in that I do work for DIRECTV and have worked for them for a while.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Even though I couldn't help.

Why don't you try the Office of the President...
They have teams established to follow issues from start to finish.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> Even though I couldn't help.
> 
> Why don't you try the Office of the President...
> They have teams established to follow issues from start to finish.


im gonna go out on a limb here and say that president bush has a few more things of importance on his mind than somebodys 'directv account,' and i believe this would be a waste of your time.

try sending a pm to rs4......he should be able to help you out.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

rickmeoff said:


> im gonna go out on a limb here and say that president bush has a few more things of importance on his mind than somebodys 'directv account,' and i believe this would be a waste of your time.


I'm sure that earl would suggest contacting bush's office instead of the president of directv's office.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Why not shoot a PM to TivoJerry?

He not only works there, but is in a position of authority. A recent thread complaining about not being able to find a phone number for guided setup provided an immediate response when someone PM'd him.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Why not shoot a PM to TivoJerry?
> 
> He not only works there, but is in a position of authority. A recent thread complaining about not being able to find a phone number for guided setup provided an immediate response when someone PM'd him.


Jerry works for Tivo not DTV


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

ebonovic _works_ for DTV, he just doesn't get paid for his work.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Those who work for DTV and are candid about their feelings or answers must maintain anonymity if they want to keep working there, so it would not surprise me that a lot of regular posters are DTV employees yet are still "in" the closet. Can't really blame them.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> Even though I couldn't help.
> 
> Why don't you try the Office of the President...
> They have teams established to follow issues from start to finish.


I called the DirecTV Office of the President when I had a lingering rebate problem that dozens of CSR calls could not get resolved in a period of over 6 months. The lady that responded was respectful, very polite, and asked me how I felt this should be resolved. I said I simply wanted my $200 rebate. She called me back a day later (after some research) and said she could not get the rebate to process due to its age. She asked if an immediate $200 credit on my account would be acceptable. I said of course and thanked her. Ten minutes later that credit appeared on my account (checking online).

I was polite and had my facts and chronology straight. She was even more polite and apparently sincerely interested in making things right for a 7-year customer with 2 HD and 2 SD DirecTiVo's and a few non-TiVo receivers.

I just looked up the headquarters site and dialed the main telephone number and asked for the Office of the President. When asked why there, I said to resolve a 6-month old problem that I was not able to get resolved any other way.

In a company I once worked for, I used to answer those calls when it was determined the issue required technical expertise to understand or resolve. I was empowered to do anything reasonable to satisfy and keep the customer, unless the customer was abuse or was obviously never going to be satisfied.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

BlackBetty said:


> ebonovic _works_ for DTV, he just doesn't get paid for his work.


What kind of dig is that? Are you trying to call Earl a shill or stooge working for DirecTV?

Why not just come out and say it rather than hiding behind veiled comments and winkin' smileys?


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Gunnyman said:


> Jerry works for Tivo not DTV


True - my bad.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

rickmeoff said:


> im gonna go out on a limb here and say that president bush has a few more things of importance on his mind than somebodys 'directv account,' and i believe this would be a waste of your time.
> 
> try sending a pm to rs4......he should be able to help you out.


Good one!!

I like that!!!!:up::up::up:


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

bdowell said:


> What kind of dig is that? Are you trying to call Earl a shill or stooge working for DirecTV?
> 
> Why not just come out and say it rather than hiding behind veiled comments and winkin' smileys?


Was that a dig? I took it to mean that the service that Earl provides here comes from his own agenda and interests, and just coincidentally is helpful to DTV, not that he is in any way affiliated with them. Earl says he is not affilitated, so why would we not all just accept that as true? Saying that they should pay him might have even been a compliment.

Maybe I'm naive, or maybe someone's just paranoid. Or maybe both.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

bdowell said:


> What kind of dig is that? Are you trying to call Earl a shill or stooge working for DirecTV?
> 
> Why not just come out and say it rather than hiding behind veiled comments and winkin' smileys?





TyroneShoes said:


> Was that a dig? I took it to mean that the service that Earl provides here comes from his own agenda and interests, and just coincidentally is helpful to DTV, not that he is in any way affiliated with them. Earl says he is not affilitated, so why would we not all just accept that as true? Saying that they should pay him might have even been a compliment.
> 
> Maybe I'm naive, or maybe someone's just paranoid. Or maybe both.


That's actually how I took it... more of a compliment then a dig..


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> Was that a dig? I took it to mean that the service that Earl provides here comes from his own agenda and interests, and just coincidentally is helpful to DTV, not that he is in any way affiliated with them. Earl says he is not affilitated, so why would we not all just accept that as true? Saying that they should pay him might have even been a compliment.
> 
> Maybe I'm naive, or maybe someone's just paranoid. Or maybe both.


I guess it could be a compliment, but if it was meant as a compliment I would think the wording would have been more along the lines of 'they should pay him for doing such a great job on their behalf' rather than the italicized he _works_ for...

I'm just really tired of having seen people smack Earl or anyone else that puts in a good word for DirecTV. Anyone that dares say a positive word for DirecTV must be astroturfing, must be a shill, and must be on the payroll. If that was only the case (lords knows many of us could use the money  )

We now return you to your normal DirecTV bashing or shilling


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

bdowell said:


> I guess it could be a compliment, but if it was meant as a compliment I would think the wording would have been more along the lines of 'they should pay him for doing such a great job on their behalf' rather than the italicized he _works_ for...
> 
> I'm just really tired of having seen people smack Earl or anyone else that puts in a good word for DirecTV. Anyone that dares say a positive word for DirecTV must be astroturfing, must be a shill, and must be on the payroll. If that was only the case (lords knows many of us could use the money  )
> 
> We now return you to your normal DirecTV bashing or shilling


I'm certainly OK with that explanation, I just hope BBetty is. Earl should be (and probably is -- there I go speaking for him again, unauthorized) comforted that folks like you are looking out for him, I guess. If he is actually pushing his own agenda (which I am absolutely convinced that he is not), he at least seems to be pretty-damned skilled at making it not look that way, in my view.

I guess that's a prevalent problem on the forums, that if someone intends a light-hearted tone it's still hard to convey that in print, and the intent can easily get misinterpreted in the translation. Apparently even a "winkin' smiley" can be misinterpreted, which I guess shouldn't be all that shocking, seeing as how many of us couldn't even figure out which (office of the) president was even being discussed.

I took the italics as a method of broadening the scope of the term "works" to include verbiage less-strictly related to actual employment, rather than as something negative, but that's just me.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

rickmeoff said:


> ...
> 
> try sending a pm to rs4......he should be able to help you out.


Well that certainly gave me a good laugh No one ever accused me of working for D*, although I think I have a stronger focus on their customers then they do.

I've worked in enough projects to know that you have keep an eye on your client when making changes. It's too bad these folks don't.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

I tried the top of the line people at DTV and apparently the contract is more important than the customer.

Sadly, I am now done with DTV never to go back unless they change their business tactics. I don't like the idea that I'm constantly stuck in a contract anytime I have done something to my account.

Oh well, Goodbye DTV, hello Series 3!


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

So what was the issue? Seems as if you were trying to get out of your contract and avoid the ETF and they didn't let you. Were there special circumstances they denied? Unless you die (and provide a death certificate) or get shipped to Iraq (and provide proper deployment papers) they gotcha. There were a number of soldiers who were transferred from a base in California which had DTV to a base down South (east coast) for pre-Iraq deployment who were DTV customer in CA. The new base didn't have DTV available but they still had to pay the ETF. They were told that only if they were deployed could they get out of the agreement.


Scott D said:


> I tried the top of the line people at DTV and apparently the contract is more important than the customer.
> 
> Sadly, I am now done with DTV never to go back unless they change their business tactics. I don't like the idea that I'm constantly stuck in a contract anytime I have done something to my account.
> 
> Oh well, Goodbye DTV, hello Series 3!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

So the whole issue was your concern over a commitment? Oh well, enjoy.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> So the whole issue was your concern over a commitment? Oh well, enjoy.


Not quite. It was DTV changing my service plan by adding new channels that I could not watch unless I get their receiver with a 2 year contract attached and I had to pay for all those channels as well. I asked first if the HD part of the bill could be reduced due to limited accessibility to HD channels that I couls receive and it was nothing doing. They did, however, wanted to assist me in removing the complete HD package from my account though. This business tactic was their idea, not mine, to change my account programming package without allowing the proper receivers to accommodate the service without any strings attached like a 2 year contract. It's their way of locking you in so as you cannot leave without penalties.

When you stay with DTV, you will always be under contract with them. There's no way out of it and that, to me, is bad business practices especially for long term loyal customers. I've been with them for 8 years and I'm tired of being treated as such.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Scott D said:


> Not quite. It was DTV changing my service plan by adding new channels that I could not watch unless I get their receiver with a 2 year contract attached and I had to pay for all those channels as well. I asked first if the HD part of the bill could be reduced due to limited accessibility to HD channels that I couls receive and it was nothing doing. They did, however, wanted to assist me in removing the complete HD package from my account though. This business tactic was their idea, not mine, to change my account programming package without allowing the proper receivers to accommodate the service without any strings attached like a 2 year contract. It's their way of locking you in so as you cannot leave without penalties.
> 
> When you stay with DTV, you will always be under contract with them. There's no way out of it and that, to me, is bad business practices especially for long term loyal customers. I've been with them for 8 years and I'm tired of being treated as such.


Bought a cellphone or changed palns on one lately?

I'm not under contract with D* and I have two HR20s. Most people don't swap providers every time there's a change and some will even give the different options a chance! I'm not a fan of the HR20, but for me, content is king. My only option is a second-rate local cable company that doesn't even offer HD - or a switch to E* (Dish) and a different two-year commitment.

Contracts are not uncommon in business. My company used to do all its business without contracts and we used to advertise that fact - and we deal with government agencies. I would spend several weeks installing software only to find that they wouldn't give it a chance and would go back to their old provider, costing us thousands.

I'm not agreeing with the idea or even saying I like it, but I understand it as a business model.

Sad thing is, most of the people who complain about it on this board have no intentions to switch providers anyway. They just whine for the sake of it!!


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Bought a cellphone or changed palns on one lately?
> 
> I'm not under contract with D* and I have two HR20s. Most people don't swap providers every time there's a change and some will even give the different options a chance! I'm not a fan of the HR20, but for me, content is king. My only option is a second-rate local cable company that doesn't even offer HD - or a switch to E* (Dish) and a different two-year commitment.
> 
> ...


I'm not disagreeing with you but you missed the point. You might want to reevaluate what I was saying.

Since you like cell phone examples, let's use it. Cell phone company sends you new phones because you need an upgraded phone. You're totally happy with what you had but the Cell company decided for you that you really needed these new phones so you are now under contract. Or perhaps they might give you new features you have to pay for that you can't use like navigation or TV services. They set you up and make you pay for these features and you can't use these fantastic features because the phone you have won't work. You ask to have these services removed and the cell company says, no way. Get the new phone so as we, the cell company, can put you under a new contract or just cancel your complete service with us.

I did not ask to pay full price on my HD programming package when I couldn't receive them in the first place. DTV didn't care about my situation. I pay full price for 15% of the HD channels. Fair? Good business practices? It is for DTV. Not to us. I'm not the first one to say that DTV is nickel and diming us to death. They are deceptive. DTV is interested only in DTV. Their prices are relatively the same as everybody else's prices. Commitments are their thing. They like to make sure they get paid for the maximum time they can.

I've been reading A LOT of bad reviews from all companies. DTV is the only company I found so far that is consistent in being bad in deceptive practices. The complaints are different types of complaints but very similar in design. You can categorize them all in one grouping.

If you like DTV, that will always be your choice but please don't knock me down because I don't share the same ideas as you do. Content means nothing to me if I feel the company in question has bad business management.

I'm not looking for freebies, just looking for fair customer support. My whole point was if DTV was going to change my programming package for me then they need to be fair about it and work with me so both parties get benefits from it. What happened here is it was all for DTV and none for me. This business deal was geared to help DTV make money and customer satisfaction, well, that wasn't there. As I said before. DTV was more interested in locking me in than if I was happy or not. I said I wasn't happy and the response I got from them was, "Does it look like I care? You want the receiver or not?"


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Scott D - were you offered the newer receiver(s) and upgrade for free (with the string attached being you had to stay commited to DirecTV for two years)? If so, then contrast that experience with this one: DirecTV wants $120 to upgrade.... in the other DirecTV related sub-forum here.

While you are unhappy with being charged the same amount as previously charged for fewer and fewer channels (and that is something just about everyone would be unhappy with), if DirecTV has offered you something for little or nothing in up-front costs, then you are doing better than the next guy (see thread linked above).

People hate the two year commitment, feel trapped by it, and don't like not being able to jump providers at the drop of a hat, but there are ways around it. Pay more up front. Ask DirecTV how much that amount is though and you'd probably be begging for the two year commitment and cheaper up front costs.

As others have said here, DirecTV is trying to minimize churn. They don't want to keep paying to get and keep customers. They offer big discounts to get customers, and big discounts to keep customers if those customers will stay for that 2 year period. They want to keep you long enough to earn back most of the costs of getting your business to begin with. I don't blame them for that. If they keep losing customers and keep running up huge costs to get and keep customers, they wind up raising rates for everyone else that stays with them, driving more customers away. It's a never ending losing cycle.

If you want to go with the cell phone analogy again, look at the desperation of Sprint. There was news (at C-net.com) this week that they are implementing new retention bonuses for execs and employees to try to keep customers from cancelling. What they seem to have missed and/or forgotten is how badly that went for AOL (where the employees just plain wouldn't let customers cancel). They missed the idea that spending a bit more directly on customers, cutting rates, or offering more service would be what keeps customers.

In DirecTV's case they've actually been among the better companies in the regard of spending directly on the customer. They have offered free and very low cost upgrades, they have tossed around programming credits (at times) and otherwise done things to soften the blow for customers {... that are willing to commit to staying with DirecTV for a good period of time}.

There have been many different threads recently saying the free ride and gravy train was pretty much over and done with though. DirecTV has been cutting their costs all around. In today's economy they can't keep jacking up rates for everyone without driving away customers, and in order to spend freely on customers they have to find the money somewhere.

In the end you have to decide if the deal you are offered is 'good enough' and also have to decide if you are willing to give DirecTV 2 more years, or at least offer to take that 2 more years and be prepared to pay off an early termination fee if you can't make it through the two years.

When offered, I jumped. I saw promises of the most HD anywhere and researched enough to find that it wasn't just hype. As that promise was becoming a reality, I was ready and have been burning away that 2 year commitment slowly but surely. In the 20 months (give or take) that remain in my commitment Verizon FiOS might come within spitting distance of DirecTV or may even pass them when it comes to HD offerings and pricing, but I doubt it. I've priced their service for an equivalent offering and it's no where near close with hardware that is also no where near as functional and useful as DirecTV's (either TiVo based or non-TiVo based). That could improve vastly over the next year or two. If it does, maybe I'll think of switching later. Meanwhile, I can enjoy the most HD just by turning on my TV and DirecTV HR20 receiver.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

So you're actually ticked off that you can't get all the current HD with your old HD receiver that is being replaced and mad that you pay the same $10? Ummmm, you've been paying $10 a month for HD for a few years now. You still get the same channels you did before. But now they have added dozens and dozens more but you need a new receiver to get them. So yes, either upgrade to the new equipment to get them, be happy with your limited channels, or go to Dish/Cable/FIOS. Those are your choices. I'm still not seeing your problem here. DirecTV is providing you HD service that you have paid for all these years. Heck, in a year or so it will disappear completely and then you will get no HD other then OTA. And because of that they are offering you cheap upgrades. I guess if you don't want a commitment to offset that cheap upgrade then pay the full price of $500. Let me know which way you come out ahead.

Commitment, whatever. I've been with DirecTV for 12 years now. Every year I check my options.
Dish - 2 year commitment
Cable - 12-18 month commitment to get the super duper triple pack pricing. Also 12-36 month commitment to Tivo to get their best pricing.
Or upgrade for free or get good pricing on an upgrade and 2 year commitment to DirecTV.
I'm surrounded by commitments! So each year or two I evaluate and go with who gives me the most channels I want for the best price. So far that has always been DirecTV. Maybe someday someone else will step up and compete for my $$$$ but so far they aren't even close.

We all have choices to make and if you can't accept the fact you need to get upgraded equipment then go to cable and be happy. Life is to short to not be happy.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> So you're actually ticked off that you can't get all the current HD with your old HD receiver that is being replaced and mad that you pay the same $10? Ummmm, you've been paying $10 a month for HD for a few years now. You still get the same channels you did before. But now they have added dozens and dozens more but you need a new receiver to get them. So yes, either upgrade to the new equipment to get them, be happy with your limited channels, or go to Dish/Cable/FIOS. Those are your choices. I'm still not seeing your problem here. DirecTV is providing you HD service that you have paid for all these years. Heck, in a year or so it will disappear completely and then you will get no HD other then OTA. And because of that they are offering you cheap upgrades. I guess if you don't want a commitment to offset that cheap upgrade then pay the full price of $500. Let me know which way you come out ahead.
> 
> Commitment, whatever. I've been with DirecTV for 12 years now. Every year I check my options.
> Dish - 2 year commitment
> ...


Well, I see the D* apologists are out in full force again.

Here's a good example in this post - apples to oranges in commitment comparisons - with D* the customer is locked in for 2 years, while not even allowed to test the equipment at home. There is no discount, no rate guarantee, no nothing. With the cable company, the customer is not forced to sign a contract. In fact, I get a 15% discount on my cable bill because I have broadband and don't even have a contact. Oh yeah, if I did sign up for a contract, I would get a price guarantee and additional discounts. So, at least with the cable, company there is value in the commitment. Oh yeah - I don't have to purchase any equipment up front if I want to use theirs.

ScottD is still paying for an HD service that is reduced in it's offering. He should get a discounted rate of 20 or 30% to match the reduced number of channels he now has available. It has nothing to do with the other channels that D* is now offering - he's getting less - plain and simple!!

A lot of people are locked in with D* and I feel sorry for them, plus a lot of you don't have an alternative cable vendor. But to the rest, I would say to you that yesterday, I had 25 videos in my HD folder - none of them more than 5 days old and only 3 OTA, and you may have the same opportunity as well. Before getting forced in to a 2-year contract, look at the alternatives. This 'content is king' crap is being way over rated, because my guess is that a lot of other folks have the same options that I do. The other thing that surprised me was how much better my SD was over D*. So, even those channels are a huge improvement.

D* shows no loyalty to it's customers - no discounts, not even a trial period. They just simply don't care about their customers. They are the ones who decided to change to mpeg4. Most of us had purchased our equipment, and instead of rewarding us for our loyalty, D* has decided to foist a second-rated product onto folks for 2 years. Oh, you don't like it - well, just send us $480 and you're free and clear.

It's quite simple - D* has become a bully - it's their way or the highway!!


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

RS4 said:


> with D* the customer is locked in for 2 years


You are not "locked"... Locked means you have no way out.
You can buy your self out of your contract if you want.

It is significantly cheaper then continuing with the service that you are not happy with if you want to continue with.

And It is a pro-rated buy-out... so if you stay 12 months and want to leave then... it is half of what you started with.

Just like if I am not happy with my Cell-Phone service... and don't really realize it till after the 30 day window.

I have to pay a cancel fee.... and I have done it in the past, as I would rather buy myself out, then continue with a service at a higher rate... and just take the hit.

I do wish DirecTV would give the option for new customers, or upgrading customers... and option to give them say $300 up front... to cover the costs of installations/upgrades... and then allow then a 30 day trial...

If they want out... then when they ship back all the equipment, including the dishes and multiswitches... they get the $300 back... Stay... and the $300 get's applied to your account over the 24 month contract.

Then the intrest on that initial $300 would cover the costs of lost hardware, installations, other costs associated with the upgrades... on those that don't stay.

But there is absolutely no way I can see doing a free trial period... 
This isn't cable... most homes already have a cable run to the house today... So it is just a box, that can either be user installed, or in a very short time period by a tech. Even cable-internet now... is all self-installs, unless you want to pay an installation fee.

The dynamics of the two industries don't allow an apples-apples application.

-----------

And yes... to a degree DirecTV has become a "bully"...
As they are not going to allow customer to dictate how they run their business..

They have set the price... They have set limitations on how far they are going to go on credits...
They are at a point as a customer, that they don't have to worry about keeping every customer satisfied with everywhim.

Just like every other large company out there...

The Cable-Co's are now on the other side of the table... where once they were rigid and difficult... they have to do what they can to keep customers... as they are facing serious compition right now... with Fiber based technology, and Sat technology that rivals and in areas exceeds their own systems.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> But to the rest, I would say to you that yesterday, I had 25 videos in my HD folder - none of them more than 5 days old and only 3 OTA, and you may have the same opportunity as well.


Not quite sure what this has to do with anything. I have dozens and dozens of hours of HD on my DVRs, I just have to find the time to watch it all. And none of it is OTA or from the "big 4" networks.

I also don't now why someone is an "apologist" because they actually like the service they get. What is the world coming to.  

Look, nobody likes commitments. If I had a choice I wouldn't have one either. But I also don't really care if I'm getting the service I expect. I certainly have better things to do with my time then switch services every 6 months chasing the best deal. Oh, my commitment is up in 5 months. Whoohooooo!


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> Just like if I am not happy with my Cell-Phone service... and don't really realize it till after the 30 day window.


Just wait 'till the 10.25% sales tax goes in effect by you. I don't think you're gonna be happy at all with that if you shop in those areas to get your cell phone. You may have to do your shopping up by me! Which means you have to be a Packer fan to cross the border.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> ...D* has become a bully - it's their way or the highway!!


I think you can apply that to any company. If you don't agree to their terms, then their terms don't mean anything if they let everyone slide. Consequently, they will reluctantly lose you as a customer if you aren't agreeable.

No company can please everybody and every company expects customers to agree to their terms as a condition of them being customers. That's pretty standard business practice.

Of course there is wiggle room. And that is dynamic. If a company is behind the 8-ball as compared to competitors and are hungry for your business, the terms begin to change in the customers' favor. If the company has invested half a bil in a new state-of-art delivery system that trumps its competitors, they know they have both the competitors and the customers somewhat over a barrel, and the terms then change in favor of the company.

That huge investment, in the mind of the company, bought them the right to dictate stricter terms, and who's to say that isn't either fair or correct? I think that sort of shift is exactly what some are seeing, and some customers perceive that as a less-acceptable situation than it was before. It's all very natural.

What is also natural, and unfortunately so, is a tendency for folks to look for a reason to complain, and this gives them one. What they tend not to realize is that if they perceive a deal to be unfair, that doesn't automatically make it worse than the deal they would get somewhere else.

At least that motivates folks to LOOK for a better deal, but that doesn't make it rational, and you know what? Good luck with that.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

RS4 said:


> Well, I see the D* apologists are out in full force again.
> 
> Here's a good example in this post - apples to oranges in commitment comparisons - with D* the customer is locked in for 2 years, while not even allowed to test the equipment at home. There is no discount, no rate guarantee, no nothing. With the cable company, the customer is not forced to sign a contract. In fact, I get a 15% discount on my cable bill because I have broadband and don't even have a contact. Oh yeah, if I did sign up for a contract, I would get a price guarantee and additional discounts. So, at least with the cable, company there is value in the commitment. Oh yeah - I don't have to purchase any equipment up front if I want to use theirs.
> 
> ...


Well, that sums it up in a nutshell!:up:



> You are not "locked"... Locked means you have no way out.
> You can buy your self out of your contract if you want.


Let's see now. That's about $199.00 up front cost, non recoverable, and the back door cost of which is determined upon how much time is left on your contract equals very expensive.

Cable rentals. Nominal fee about $10 to $15 dollars depending on what you get. No back door price because there are no contracts. No rentals if you have cable ready equipment.

IPTV has no contracts or rental fees. How many boxes do you need? Just return them when you're done and the packages are excellent!

You've got to be kidding me. DTV is far from cheap.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Besides, I moved on. Best move I made in a long time.:up:


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

ebonovic said:


> ...
> 
> I do wish DirecTV would give the option for new customers, or upgrading customers... and option to give them say $300 up front... to cover the costs of installations/upgrades... and then allow then a 30 day trial...
> 
> ...


Earl, I think you're reasoning is probably quite similar to D*. And the problem with that reasoning is that it doesn't think about the client at all - it's totally one-sided.

Think about it - what is the objective - to implement new technology for HD and gain new customers while getting the existing customers to spend more money. How much money is that going to cost - x billions to get y millions to convert? If the company is going to write off the cost of 90% (or whatever percentage) by charging everyone an increased rate, why not write off 95 or 98% by using the same technique? Instead, D* chooses to go the bully route. We're afraid we're going to lose x% so we'll force 'em to stay.

You need to reverse you're thinking - try focusing on the customer for a change, instead of saying this can't be done, and we need restrictions here or we're going to lose z%.

You are short-sighted when you say:


> But there is absolutely no way I can see doing a free trial period... This isn't cable...


 I was a long-standing (since 94) customer who spent more than $1200 a year with them. Before I left, I had 3 DTivos hooked up including the HR10-250. D* could have easily shipped me the HR20, let me plug it in to my existing system, and try it out for 30 days without charging me anything. What would that have cost them $30 - 50? So, you're saying I'm not worth $50?

Instead, I left, and have stopped 2 others from joining D*. So, now they are out - what maybe $3k or more. Plus they have a guy totally pissed, just because they would not let me try it out.

The truth is, where there's a will, there's a way...and D* continues to follow the bully techniques. And why - they don't have to do that at all. My guess is that they would grow even more if they had kept Tivo alongside their new box and throw out the 2-year contract. Sure, they lose some folks, but so what - how many more would they be gaining? My guess is that they would net gain more. Why - because of folks like me who would have stayed and continued to recommend D*. My guess is that D* is losing the exact customer they are trying to find - I think they called it tier 5 or something.

I'm not quite sure why you folks always compare the TV industry to cell phone - btw I chose not to sign a contract with them either. The cable industry is the true competitor of satellite, along with the phone vendors now selling video. What works in one industry doesn't necessarily work in another.

And of course, you're totally wrong if you don't think cable hasn't been investing huge bucks to update to HD. Yet, they have models where they are not forcing customers into 2-year contracts. And they have models where they allow folks a 30-day out. Why couldn't D* offer a price guarantee and/or discount to get folks to sign up for the contract? Instead, there is absolutely nothing for the client as an incentive.

D* has truly lost sight of the customer, by thinking strictly about the bottom line. They were growing before they changed their tactics - too bad they are so focused on the $.:down: They used to be the alternative to cable, now they are lower in the list.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

GuidoTKP said:


> PM me
> 
> Sorry I guess I should have put in that I do work for DIRECTV and have worked for them for a while.


GuidoTKP was very helpful with a problem I had a few years ago. (I didn't realize you still worked for DirecTV).

As for the OP, I'm in no position to help, but I do freelance at DirecTV as an editor for Red Zone and now Strike Zone.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> And of course, you're totally wrong if you don't think cable hasn't been investing huge bucks to update to HD. Yet, they have models where they are not forcing customers into 2-year contracts. And they have models where they allow folks a 30-day out. Why couldn't D* offer a price guarantee and/or discount to get folks to sign up for the contract? Instead, there is absolutely nothing for the client as an incentive.
> 
> D* has truly lost sight of the customer, by thinking strictly about the bottom line. They were growing before they changed their tactics - too bad they are so focused on the $.:down: They used to be the alternative to cable, now they are lower in the list.


Look, the fact is that DirecTV is still growing by a million subs a year. I guess the general public just doesn't care about the commitment and truly, that is all that matters in the end. Once the general public cares about the commitment and doesn't sign on the dotted line then you might see a change. You can cry all you want about how D* has "lost sight of the customer" but if that were true they still wouldn't be growing now would they. 

Oh, and they "changed their tactics" to get higher quality subs, ones that are more loyal vs. the fly by night get the best deal every 6 months sub. They have stated this many times in their financial calls. So far it has worked out. By they way, they've had a commitment for a long, long time. Both the last DirecTivo's I activated (at least 4 years ago) came with 1 year commitments. Cable is losing subs by the millions to satellite and fiber. Of course they are going to do drastic things to try to stem the tide and perhaps no commitments is one of them. Although many cable companies have commitments to get the best deals.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Look, the fact is that DirecTV is still growing by a million subs a year. I guess the general public just doesn't care about the commitment and truly, that is all that matters in the end. Once the general public cares about the commitment and doesn't sign on the dotted line then you might see a change. You can cry all you want about how D* has "lost sight of the customer" but if that were true they still wouldn't be growing now would they.
> 
> Oh, and they "changed their tactics" to get higher quality subs, ones that are more loyal vs. the fly by night get the best deal every 6 months sub. They have stated this many times in their financial calls. So far it has worked out. By they way, they've had a commitment for a long, long time. Both the last DirecTivo's I activated (at least 4 years ago) came with 1 year commitments. Cable is losing subs by the millions to satellite and fiber. Of course they are going to do drastic things to try to stem the tide and perhaps no commitments is one of them. Although many cable companies have commitments to get the best deals.


I see it differently. I see more complaints in the customer reviews than congratulations. Places like BB or CC to name a few.

If you're happy with DTV, then you're happy. If other people aren't allowed to be unhappy, we'll be sure not to tell you about it.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> I see it differently. I see more complaints in the customer reviews than congratulations. Places like BB or CC to name a few.


That may be but the proof is in the sub numbers which keep growing while churn is going down. The facts are all we really have to go with. Perhaps it's the least evil. DirecTV may not be perfect and people may have issues but they had more issues with cable and thus won't go back. Or whatever it might be. Everything I own has a complaint forum. If all I ever did was listen to all the complaints on the Internet I wouldn't own anything.  Heck, I wouldn't own any Tivo's either after reading all the complaints on this very forum. You'd think Tivo's had problems. 



Scott D said:


> If you're happy with DTV, then you're happy. If other people aren't allowed to be unhappy, we'll be sure not to tell you about it.


Never have I said that people can't be unhappy with DirecTV. In fact totally the opposite. I encourage people to go where they will be happy no matter what it is, life is too short.

What gets me is the attitude by some here that because they chose to go with a different provider that those still with DirecTV are somehow suffering and they "feel sorry" for them.

Please.

We all have choices to make and if there are millions of happy DirecTV customers, is there something so wrong with that just because RS4 or you aren't? *That's* the attitude that is wrong. I personally could care less, again, go with what service makes you happy. If we all liked the same service there would be only one choice and that would be bad. But some here seem to think that because they dumped DirecTV everyone else who doesn't is an idiot.

Like I've said before, I evaluate every year. And the upfront costs and higher monthly outlay of cable + Tivo *for me* doesn't even come close to making me think of switching (same for Dish, FIOS isn't within 200 miles of here). As long as that stays the same as it always has you can sign me up for a 5 year commitment for all I care. I'll be dong the same evaluation again this summer. I highly doubt things will change especially with Tivo no longer offering subsidized receivers but I'll check it out anyway.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> That may be but the proof is in the sub numbers which keep growing while churn is going down. The facts are all we really have to go with. Perhaps it's the least evil. DirecTV may not be perfect and people may have issues but they had more issues with cable and thus won't go back. Or whatever it might be. Everything I own has a complaint forum. If all I ever did was listen to all the complaints on the Internet I wouldn't own anything.  Heck, I wouldn't own any Tivo's either after reading all the complaints on this very forum. You'd think Tivo's had problems.
> 
> Never have I said that people can't be unhappy with DirecTV. In fact totally the opposite. I encourage people to go where they will be happy no matter what it is, life is too short.
> 
> ...


If you think I'm mad at you or anyone else, you're wrong. As I said before, if DTV is taking care of you and you are satisfied with them, then everything is fine. Then your best best is to stay.

My point is that what I have read out there has been confirmed by some means that matched their complaints to some degree. They're almost the same complaints with slight differences but still, nonetheless the same.

I'm not telling you to stay or leave and no one is an idiot for doing either. Never have I said anything like that. My goal is to make people aware as to what has happened, mostly bad of coarse, because I don't want people to fall into a trap or something. Again, if you like 2 year commitments, up front costs of leased equipment of $199.00 or anything else like that, great. I don't. Waste of my money to be giving it away. That's just my brief opinion of DTV.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

wblynch said:


> Do I think that DirecTV will feel a pinch? Yep. Especially when everyone learns how great digital broadcast TV is and with the Great Recession coming up, satellite is something a lot of people would love to cut.


And probably will too!

TV usually is the first to go. Internet might come in second, maybe. Depends on the person as to whether or not they need it for business purposes.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> the proof is in the sub numbers which keep growing


Sales of Vista keep going up too. That doesn't mean that it isn't a pile of crap. It means that people are forced to get it.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

wblynch said:


> I will be cancelling my DirecTV after they shut off my HD channels this week.
> 
> Now, my very expensive TivoHD is obsolete, they leave me swinging in the breeze and I don't like their new DVR.


Ummmm, you do realize that you get a free HR21 upgrade since your LA locals are converting, right? So they aren't leaving you swinging in the breeze at all, unless you feel that not having a Tivo option is breezy.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Arcady said:


> Sales of Vista keep going up too. That doesn't mean that it isn't a pile of crap. It means that people are forced to get it.


And that's why I put XP on the brand new computer I just built.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

Arcady said:


> Sales of Vista keep going up too. That doesn't mean that it isn't a pile of crap. It means that people are forced to get it.


No it means thats whats on the computers now. If you want a computer with an operating system its Vista or you switch to apple. This is not the same thing because everyone has a choice, whether its cable, satellite, or just plain OTA. You always have a choice. If you dont like the commitment find a provider who offer the commitment that you are comfortable with, if you dont like the upfront fees, then pick cable with low up front by higher monthly costs, dont like fees in general, go OTA. Nobody is forcing anything on anyone.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

wblynch said:


> I bought the DirecTV HD Tivo for $1000 4 years ago. Now it's a doorstop.
> 
> Don't like the new D* dvr and don't like D* bully tactics. DirecTV has always acted like an arrogant bullying company. I've been with them a long time.
> 
> Like a bad girlfriend, it will be nice to be free.


So you paid .68 cents a day for your DirecTivo and now you are upset it isnt worth more than 100 dollars. I assume you have bought computers and paid a bunch for them only to find that 2 years later, something different (or arguably better) is less expensive with newer technology. How much is a comparable bigscreen that you bought 4 years ago selling for today? 1/2 the price or less? Its technology and as it evolves old technology gets devalued, whether its atill useful or not.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Ummmm, you do realize that you get a free HR21 upgrade since your LA locals are converting, right? So they aren't leaving you swinging in the breeze at all, unless you feel that not having a Tivo option is breezy.


Why do you tell him half the story - it's only free if you stay with them for 2 years. These are the kind of replies that are very misleading. Do you sell used cars by chance?

Besides, he already said he didn't like their box.


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## 20TIL6 (Sep 7, 2006)

Time now for an oldie, but a goodie....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=366754


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Actually a lot of my post was directed toward RS4, sorry about that.



Scott D said:


> Again, if you like 2 year commitments, up front costs of leased equipment of $199.00 or anything else like that, great. I don't. Waste of my money to be giving it away. That's just my brief opinion of DTV.


Well for me the costs of going to cable are as such:
$30 startup fee
$25/mo for (1) HD DVR (yes, it's $20 per month plus a $5 a month "HD enabling" fee). HD programming is $8 a month on top of that by the way.
So it would be $50 a month for 2 HD DVRs and I haven't even started on programming.
$102 / mo for programming, only 10 HD channels.

12 month commitment to get the best triple play pricing, which of course goes up after the 12 months is over.

Tivo Costs as such should I go with Tivo vs. the supplied cable DVR:
$600 for (2) Tivo HD units
$12.95 / mo no commitment. 1-3 year commitment for best pricing.

Can't find any info on pricing of cable cards but from what I read on our local forum it's $5 a month each. So that's $20 a month for 4 to make 2 Tivo HD work, correct?

Now maybe others have better costs then this but come one, there is no way all that is cheaper then DirecTV. Not even close. At least for me. Sign me up for 2 year commitment to have less up front and a *lot* less per month which after 2 years will pay for whatever I might get out of the Tivo HD's on eBay should I choose to sell them.

But again, just me. But I do run the numbers every year.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> Why do you tell him half the story - it's only free if you stay with them for 2 years. These are the kind of replies that are very misleading. Do you sell used cars by chance?
> 
> Besides, he already said he didn't like their box.


Hello. He already mentioned the commitment. Of course there is a commitment. DUH!


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Hello. He already mentioned the commitment. Of course there is a commitment. DUH!


Ok, my bad. I accused you of not reading his post, and I apparently did the same thing - although I can no longer find it, but from experience can tell you what that means


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

RS4 said:


> Ok, my bad. I accused you of not reading his post, and I apparently did the same thing - although I can no longer find it, but from experience can tell you what that means


I don't know about your history but I will tell you what it means.

I deleted my posts because I don't appreciate bullying and stalking from DirecTV fan boys.

You disgust me if you think you're promoting DirecTV. These tactics make me even happier to leave them.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Actually a lot of my post was directed toward RS4, sorry about that.
> 
> Well for me the costs of going to cable are as such:
> $30 startup fee
> ...


If you are really looking at the numbers, here are a few thoughts:
1. Tivo has some 'renewed' Tivo HD's for $199 right now.
2. My 2 Tivo boxes are around $18 per month - one is lifetime, and one is 1-year prepaid.
3. The Tivo HD works with a multi-streaming card. In my case, the first MS card is free. The second one would be $6.95. So mine was free.
4. I only have one Tivo hooked up to Comcast because of MRV. The second one is just hooked to the antenna. But they both can play the other's recordings. Our viewing habits only require the 2 receivers in one dvr for cable. As I mentioned the other day, we don't get the sheer number of HD channels as Direct, but typically find that we have at least 20 to 25 HD recordings in the HD folder waiting to view.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

wblynch said:


> I don't know about your history but I will tell you what it means.
> 
> I deleted my posts because I don't appreciate bullying and stalking from DirecTV fan boys.
> 
> You disgust me if you think you're promoting DirecTV. These tactics make me even happier to leave them.


Certainly no bullying here. Was simply pointing out that you felt you were left hanging by DirecTV when in fact they are offering free upgrades so that you can continue to receive your HD channels and in fact get a whole lot more. That is not leaving you hanging at all. While you may feel the DirecTV DVR is no match for the Tivo (and certainly many feel that way), they aren't leaving you hanging in the wind, they are giving you free options. And of course you have the option of leaving for something better if you have the choices in your area.

Good luck to you.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

RS4 said:


> If you are really looking at the numbers, here are a few thoughts:
> 1. Tivo has some 'renewed' Tivo HD's for $199 right now.
> 2. My 2 Tivo boxes are around $18 per month - one is lifetime, and one is 1-year prepaid.
> 3. The Tivo HD works with a multi-streaming card. In my case, the first MS card is free. The second one would be $6.95. So mine was free.
> 4. I only have one Tivo hooked up to Comcast because of MRV. The second one is just hooked to the antenna. But they both can play the other's recordings. Our viewing habits only require the 2 receivers in one dvr for cable. As I mentioned the other day, we don't get the sheer number of HD channels as Direct, but typically find that we have at least 20 to 25 HD recordings in the HD folder waiting to view.


All I can say is Charter sucks.  They barely can spell HD let alone cable card. They do have good high speed Internet though, I'll give them that.

But that's why everyone needs to research their options, do the math and figure out what is best for them. If any one provider were hands down the best there would be only one. 

I'm personally happy with DirecTV because I get more channels *I watch* for less money then either cable or Dish and their DVR does what it is supposed to and that is record my programs. Everything else (like Sunday Ticket or advanced DVR features) is just icing on the cake. 
Dish is closest but doesn't offer my HD locals and has way less HD, missing a lot of channels I watch. 
Charter isn't close (10 HD channels, are you kidding me?). 
Notice that programming value is my #1 thing, the DVR doing the recording I could care less about so long as it does it's job. But that's just me, my priorities are obviously different then yours. Doesn't make me "right" or you "right", just different.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

wblynch said:


> I don't know about your history but I will tell you what it means.
> 
> I deleted my posts because I don't appreciate bullying and stalking from DirecTV fan boys.
> 
> You disgust me if you think you're promoting DirecTV. These tactics make me even happier to leave them.


I'm not sure if I understand or not. If you are accusing me of being a DTV fan boy... well, there's always a first for everything I guess

Actually, I left D* for many of the same reasons you stated. I feel they have changed their attitude towards the client by 180 degrees and they are now at the bottom of the list of companies that I want to do business with. I too had been with them since '94, and was disappointed that they have change their strategy.

Good luck with your new service.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I'm not sure if I understand or not. If you are accusing me of being a DTV fan boy... well, there's always a first for everything I guess
> 
> Actually, I left D* for many of the same reasons you stated. I feel they have changed their attitude towards the client by 180 degrees and they are now at the bottom of the list of companies that I want to do business with. I too had been with them since '94, and was disappointed that they have change their strategy.
> 
> Good luck with your new service.


Well, I was just confused by your statement that, "from experience we all know what that means". I have no idea what it means.

My new service is Air Waves. The newfangled wireless technology 

I apologize and will thicken my skin a little and probably enjoy life a lot more.

Take care.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

wblynch said:


> Well, I was just confused by your statement that, "from experience we all know what that means". I have no idea what it means.
> 
> My new service is Air Waves. The newfangled wireless technology
> 
> ...


Sorry I confused you. Sometimes the moderators don't like what we say and they delete the item. So, having experienced that myself a few times, I naturally assumed that the moderators had removed your item.

I'm interested in your Air Waves service. I couldn't find anything on the internet that talks about it. Do you use a television antenna to get the signals, or is it something else? Are you getting your internet service that way too? Thanks


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

RS4 said:


> I'm interested in your Air Waves service. I couldn't find anything on the internet that talks about it. Do you use a television antenna to get the signals, or is it something else? Are you getting your internet service that way too? Thanks


By "Air Waves", I mean OTA reception of broadcast Digital and High Def TV.

No internet, unless there's a community wifi..


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

RS4 said:


> ...Sometimes the moderators don't like what we say and they delete the item. So, having experienced that myself a few times...


Really.

I'm shocked.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

What might seem normal to most of you calling the 2 year commitment good business pertaining to DirecTV is in fact bad business. I got a call from them I guess trying to find out why I left. I told them why. Simply put.....


1. DirecTV changed my programming package.
2. Could not receive new channels, so I asked for a price reduction.
3. DirecTV said no but would gladly cancel all HD programming.
4. Since I have to pay full price and not get it, got HR20 under protest.
5. To add additional rooms with HR2X, requires a reset in commitment.
6. Have to pay $199.00 up front cost for a lease. Free money to DirecTV.
7. Decided to cancel DTV. Got phone call from DTV. Said contract stands.
8. Took 3 calls to get price of cancellation. $225.00. 
9. Said I had to wait a week after cancel to get actual price. Not happening.
10. Wrote a nasty gram to Chase Carry and an E-mail to customer complaints.
11. Just got a call from the Office of the President this morning, Apr 1.
12. Agent agreed that this was unnecessary. Waived contract.
13. Need to pay for March and I'm all done. 

Now, most of you may feel that I should have been held under contract, but this was not the case. I feel that DirecTV doesn't care about their customers and that is exactly what I let them know. People leave due to deceptive practices that they do. Now, DirecTV can take it or leave it. I just said that I want no part of it. I clearly stated that they "used" to be a good company but all that's changed now.

I was told that this issue about bad customer service will be brought up in the next corporate meetings AND that this rep, since it is her job in customer satisfaction, that she will take the advice I have given her to make positive changes. You can thank me for that one IF DirecTV really cares about their customer base. As of right now, I no longer carry the DirecTV service as I have moved on. All of this treatment lost this customer so whatever they do has no influence on me. This "Content is king" theory that I here a lot about isn't worth a hill of beans if customer satisfaction isn't there. Personally, I don't mind if the price is a little high or whatever. I stay with businesses due to honesty and integrity. If DirecTV said they're going to do something for you and turn around and not do it, it's time to abandon ship.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Scott D said:


> I was told that this issue about bad customer service will be brought up in the next corporate meetings AND that this rep, since it is her job in customer satisfaction, that she will take the advice I have given her to make positive changes. You can thank me for that one IF DirecTV really cares about their customer base. As of right now, I no longer carry the DirecTV service as I have moved on. All of this treatment lost this customer so whatever they do has no influence on me. This "Content is king" theory that I here a lot about isn't worth a hill of beans if customer satisfaction isn't there. *Personally, I don't mind if the price is a little high or whatever.* I stay with businesses due to honesty and integrity. If DirecTV said they're going to do something for you and turn around and not do it, it's time to abandon ship.


If you didn't care, then why are you complaining about paying more to get less?

If you don't care about content, again, why complain when you lose channels?

You've abandoned ship and moved on? Then why continue here?

And when you 'here' about "Content is King" are you actually "hearing" any of it?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> I feel that DirecTV doesn't care about their customers and that is exactly what I let them know. People leave due to deceptive practices that they do.


I still don't understand what was deceptive. They are converting HD channels to MPEG4. That's been waaaaay out in the open for 3+ years now. Those who are having their channels converted (LA DNS, Nascar, etc.) are getting offers for free upgrades.

So while it is a "take it or leave it" attitude I'm not sure where the deception is and what more you want them to do. They are offering free upgrades to those with older equipment that can't get MPEG4. Sounds like a good thing, no?

But anyway, you've made your choice and I hope you're happy with your new provider. Being happy is all that matters.



> This "Content is king" theory that I here a lot about isn't worth a hill of beans if customer satisfaction isn't there.


Yes, content is king. Not sure how I can be unsatisfied since I get the channels I want at a good price and my DVR does it's job by recording the shows I tell it too. So yes, I'm satisfied as long as those 2 things hold up. But perhaps I have lower standards... Again, be happy with your new provider, life is too short to be upset over something so trivial as TV.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

bdowell said:


> If you didn't care, then why are you complaining about paying more to get less?
> 
> If you don't care about content, again, why complain when you lose channels?
> 
> ...


You need to re-read my post. I didn't lose channels, I got new channels *that I am paying for* but cannot receive.

You like to bash me and others without getting your facts straight. No wonder people get pissed around here with your kind of attitude.

If you don't like what I did to get out of a contract, *tough*. I don't need your permission or authorization to do what I felt was the right thing to do.

Besides, I may have turned the tables and made things better for DTV customers but do you care? Probably not so back off.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Scott D said:


> You need to re-read my post. I didn't lose channels, I got new channels *that I am paying for* but cannot receive.
> 
> You like to bash me and others without getting your facts straight. No wonder people get pissed around here with your kind of attitude.
> 
> ...


I didn't misread anything you posted, nor am I bashing you. I pointed out that you know well enough and have heard well enough that in order to receive newly available programming you must use different equipment. Equipment that will be provided to you at a discounted price, or perhaps even FREE, *IF YOU AGREE TO A MINIMUM PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT FOR A SPECIFIED DURATION OF TIME (2-years).*

You don't wish to agree to that commitment (hello clone of RS4... ) so you don't take the offer which clearly makes available new channels for you. Meanwhile you continue to receive the limited number of channels previously available *until such time that DirecTV provides notice to you of the removal of those channels and unavailability without upgrading your equipment*.

You can receive the channels you are complaining about by accepting the commitment, otherwise you are paying the same fee to receive the same programming you previously received. That there is more programming available to others that pay an equivalent fee but have newer hardware is not something you should be complaining about as it is YOU and you alone that decides if you wish to accept the offer to get your hardware upgraded (either free or at low cost, provided you accept the required commitment).

Go to another provider and see what they offer you. Don't like the choice? At least you have one. Don't like the channel offerings there? Then upgrade your equipment.

Either way, why continue to complain about it *if you are -- as you say -- not caring about it*???


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

bdowell said:


> I didn't misread anything you posted, nor am I bashing you. I pointed out that you know well enough and have heard well enough that in order to receive newly available programming you must use different equipment. Equipment that will be provided to you at a discounted price, or perhaps even FREE, *IF YOU AGREE TO A MINIMUM PROGRAMMING COMMITMENT FOR A SPECIFIED DURATION OF TIME (2-years).*


Ok, you can pay for channels you can't receive for that is what they wanted me to do. DirecTV REFUSED to make adjustments on my account BEFORE I entered a contract of which I shouldn't have been on in the first place.

What's so hard to understand here? DirecTV was flat out screwing me. If you can't see that, then you're blind. As I said, if you want to pay for services you can't watch, then go for it. If you like to give them free money. I even view that the same way for putting down big bucks up front on leased units.

Let's see the math.....

199.00................up front lease price.
245.00................early termination fee average price.
300.00................Failure to return the leased unit.

That's 744.00 of free money in that case. If I were to return the unit, it would be 444.00 of free money.

If you like giving your money away to them, more power to you. Oh, yes. Let's not forget that I found a DirecTV rep that agrees that this was uncalled for thus getting the charge removed. DirecTV loves people like you that are willing to throw their money away. I'd like it too if I could steal your money, as you call it, legally.

Have a good day!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

So you base your "free money" on ordering and having installed the new equipment at full price and then instantly canceling and not returning the (useless to you) box? Seems rather contorted.

Assuming you had intended to continue with DirecTV, I see it as:

0.00 - Free HR21
0.00 - Free 5LNB dish and install

Total expense: $0.00 with a gain of some 60+ HD channels and you get to keep your HR10 if you want (assuming it was not leased.)


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

stevel said:


> So you base your "free money" on ordering and having installed the new equipment at full price and then instantly canceling and not returning the (useless to you) box? Seems rather contorted.
> 
> Assuming you had intended to continue with DirecTV, I see it as:
> 
> ...


No, that was not the intent. It was to show you how DirecTV knows how to squeeze money out of your bank account so that it can go into theirs and call it a profit. I have no intentions on keeping their box.

You can see it any way you want to see it. If you enjoy giving your money to DTV, more power to you. My case was giving money to DTV WITHOUT services rendered. If that excites you, then maybe you would like to pay my final bill? What's your address? I'll send it to you.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Seems to me that most of you WANT DirecTV to operate on borderline business practices. What DirecTV has done to me as well as others is deceptive.

And, yes. The Office of the President Customer Satisfaction group totally agrees with me. Agrees to a point that this will be heading to the board meeting and there will be an investigation on this. Doubt it will change, but if it does, it will be good for you. As it goes for me, I could care less. Why? I am no longer, nor ever will be,part of their business so long as they operate in this manner.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

If you believe any of that I have a bridge I can sell you real cheap. It's just a "line".


Scott D said:


> And, yes. The Office of the President Customer Satisfaction group totally agrees with me. Agrees to a point that this will be heading to the board meeting and there will be an investigation on this.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> If you believe any of that I have a bridge I can sell you real cheap. It's just a "line".


One thing is real. I don't have to pay a cancellation fee. As to whether DTV changes policies, I doubt it nor do I care anymore since I am no longer with them. If they do, good for them and all DTV customers. If not, oh well. Someday they'll screw everyone of you if they keep this tactic up. It's a matter of time before the customers wise up.

Honestly, I hope it doesn't happen to you or anybody else but I can assure you of this, it won't happen to me anymore!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Well it's certainly not going to "happen to me" because I'm not going anywhere. No reason to. Sign me up for a 5 year commitment for all I care. $0 upgrade for 70+ more HD channels, sounds good to me.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

That's what matters. It proves if you are persistent and talk to the right people you can usually accomplish what you set out to do. There is always someone who can "push the button" to waive a "rule" that someone else says can't be done.


Scott D said:


> One thing is real. I don't have to pay a cancellation fee.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Scott D said:


> You can see it any way you want to see it. If you enjoy giving your money to DTV, more power to you. My case was giving money to DTV WITHOUT services rendered. If that excites you, then maybe you would like to pay my final bill? What's your address? I'll send it to you.


It was your choice not to accept the services. Heck, I paid $199 for the HR20 that lots of people are getting free now. It was worth it for the added functionality. I have a violin you can borrow.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

stevel said:


> I have a violin you can borrow.


Is it the smallest one in the world?


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

stevel said:


> It was your choice not to accept the services. Heck, I paid $199 for the HR20 that lots of people are getting free now. It was worth it for the added functionality. I have a violin you can borrow.


As you factually said in your case is that you gave DirecTV $199.00 for free. Box returned upon cancellation with no chance of money back on the money put down. Failure to return it constitute another fee. Am I right? That is the facts. You gave DirecTV a $199.00 bonus. That's what you did.

Don't try to convince me that I am off base somehow. It's not going to work.

Again and I will keep repeating myself. If you're happy with them, then you have nothing to worry about. Right? So, why are you defending them? Do you know something we don't? I have LOTS of friends I know personally that got screwed by DirecTV including myself. What? Are they all wrong? Still want to defend DirecTV saying everything all fair? We don't think so.

So I'm evil because I don't think the way people here think. Since the majority thinks DirecTV is great, well I must be wrong.

Sorry to step on everybody's toes.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I paid $199 to upgrade my service and get access to dozens more HD channels than I had before, plus software features DTiVo users have clamored for but not received. That it happened to include a physical box is not really relevant. I don't know why you are stuck on this "return the box" point.

I am not defending DirecTV. I am challenging you and others who say that they have been "screwed" by DirecTV when, from my perspective, you screwed yourself. I am sure that DirecTV, like just about any business, has showed poor judgment in various situations, but this constant whining about the self-inflected "screwing" is getting on my nerves.

Consider this similar case which has affected me. I bought a 2003 car with OnStar. At the time, it was known that the analog cellular phone system these boxes used was going out of service in 2008, and the box was labeled "Digital Ready", indicating that it could be upgraded to digital service. But when the time came, GM simply refused to offer an upgrade for this model, meaning that I could not continue the service even if I had wanted to (and I had kept up my OnStar subscription), even though they offered it for other models and the box was indeed designed for such an upgrade. What did I get for my troubles? A $100 certificate good towards a new car. This, I think, meets the criteria of "screwed" - I had no choice and lost functionality. I'd even have paid for the upgrade if it was offered.

Turning down a free equipment upgrade that would provide you with much more service than you had before, all because you hate the idea of a commitment that would likely never cost you a cent? I don't think that qualifies.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> As you factually said in your case is that you gave DirecTV $199.00 for free. Box returned upon cancellation with no chance of money back on the money put down. Failure to return it constitute another fee. Am I right? That is the facts. You gave DirecTV a $199.00 bonus. That's what you did.


Riiiight. As opposed to paying the cable company $20 a month for their HD DVR. So that's a good $14 more then what you pay monthly for the DirecTV DVR. Hmmm, let's do the math. $199 divided by $14.... 14 months.

So after 14 months of cable you just paid the same amount as you would up front for the HR21 from DirecTV. Ahhh, but those monthly payments keep on rolling with cable while you are done with DirecTV other then your DVR fee.

Seems to me like going to cable is just tossing money down the drain. Sure there is an up front fee with DirecTV (or Dish for that matter) and the box is leased but you are spending a whole lot less in the end then with cable.

And yes, the money dynamics are different if you go the Tivo HD route. Oh wait. $299 up front for each box. Cable cards $5 each. I guess I can sell the Tivo HD if I leave cable and recover some of that back but the cable card fee is down the drain as is cable's "HD enabling" fee of $5 a month which does nothing but enable HD on your boxes or cable card. No programming included in that. (and yes all cable company fees are different)

Seems to me no matter who you go with you toss "money down the drain". Imagine that, it's the way business works. For me anyway DirecTV gives me a lot more for that money then does either Dish or cable. Thus why they have my business. When that is no longer the case they won't have my business anymore.

And if the commitment is the crux of the problem...if you don't like DirecTV so much that you would want to leave before 2 years are up then perhaps you need to do what you did and leave. No sense torturing yourself for 2 years if you have viable options.

But to claim that it's so much less money is just a joke really. They will get you one way or another. I rather prefer the Dish and DirecTV model of money up front and lower monthly vs. higher monthly but that's just me.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

stevel said:


> I paid $199 to upgrade my service and get access to dozens more HD channels than I had before, plus software features DTiVo users have clamored for but not received. That it happened to include a physical box is not really relevant. I don't know why you are stuck on this "return the box" point.
> 
> I am not defending DirecTV. I am challenging you and others who say that they have been "screwed" by DirecTV when, from my perspective, you screwed yourself. I am sure that DirecTV, like just about any business, has showed poor judgment in various situations, but this constant whining about the self-inflected "screwing" is getting on my nerves.
> 
> ...


Are you going to get your $199.00 money back on a box you don't own. Yes or no.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Riiiight. As opposed to paying the cable company $20 a month for their HD DVR. So that's a good $14 more then what you pay monthly for the DirecTV DVR. Hmmm, let's do the math. $199 divided by $14.... 14 months.
> 
> So after 14 months of cable you just paid the same amount as you would up front for the HR21 from DirecTV. Ahhh, but those monthly payments keep on rolling with cable while you are done with DirecTV other then your DVR fee.
> 
> ...


Now, let's look at the real math.

That's $199.00 up front on a leased box, non refundable and $4.99 rental fee thereafter. Can't you people see that????

You go to a store and buy for a high dollar price on a box that isn't yours and never see that money again. You didn't buy it to keep, you were overcharged to use it.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Benjamin Franklin said....."A fool and his money is soon parted."


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

You're not going to convince me, so why try. All I said is what happened to me. Are you saying I am wrong? If so, you have no business there. Are you saying I don't know what I'm talking about when I say I'm not the only one that got screwed and it's all in my head?

Well, I suggest you start doing some research as I did. If I am wrong, prove it to me. All I am saying is EVERY report that I got, whether it was from people I know personally or otherwise, were all prayed upon deceptive practices. If you don't like it, oh well.

Another thing. This is THE MOST rudest forum there is. I'm not mad or anything but just stating the obvious. You can't post negatives or challenges without the approval of the majority.

No wonder this site contains valid complaints that are thrown down the drain because you don't agree. Well, tough. If I, along with others, have to listen to your nonsense, then maybe it would be fair to do the same to us.

Oh, never mind, what was I thinking.

You're right. I F***ed up. It's all my fault. How dare me to accuse them of these lies. DirecTV is the best. I'm calling this week to get this wonderful company who loves me back!


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Moderators, this thread is going nowhere anymore. 

Since my problem was solved long ago, as this thread indicates, and this thread is becoming a riot place, can you lock this thread? We're done here.

Thanks!!


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Scott D said:


> Are you going to get your $199.00 money back on a box you don't own. Yes or no.


Are you going to get your $20/mo on your rental box back?


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> Are you going to get your $20/mo on your rental box back?


I won't answer that because you don't get it.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Scott D said:


> I won't answer that because you don't get it.


Just trying to understand and help. Never mind.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Around here, you can never tell when someone is trying to be smart or not.

I take it as you were not and based upon that, the answer to your question is simple.

DirecTV wants you to pay them $199.00 up front cost on a box that doesn't belong to you anyway and that money is non refundable nor is it used for rental fee costs. *That is free money you gave to DirecTV.* Then, throughout your time with DirecTV, there is a rental cost as well. 4 or 5 dollars.  What I fail to understand is why the customers think it's alright to give DirecTV free cash. I wouldn't.

Imagine this idea. Suppose that TiVo wants you to pay up front costs of $500.00 on a S3 box. In addition to that, $16.00 more on the service. TiVo won't do lifetime subscriptions on them and demand the box back upon cancellation. You fail to return it, it costs another $400.00. So far, you have given TiVo $900.00 plus however many months of rental you used.

You realize what an outcry that would be? How come it's alright if DirecTV does that and it's a crying shame if TiVo follows suit?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I don't know about others here, but I got my HR20 and HR21 free of charge. One was supposed to be in exchange for an HR10-250, but I was not required to return it. After six months I was eligible for another free DVR. Sometimes you have to play CSR Roulette to get what you are looking for. I agree that this is an unreasonable practice and that all customers should have the same deals available to them. The fact of the matter is that many companies do business this way, where the individual CSRs have some discretion in what they offer customers.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> I don't know about others here, but I got my HR20 and HR21 free of charge. One was supposed to be in exchange for an HR10-250, but I was not required to return it. After six months I was eligible for another free DVR. Sometimes you have to play CSR Roulette to get what you are looking for. I agree that this is an unreasonable practice and that all customers should have the same deals available to them. The fact of the matter is that many companies do business this way, where the individual CSRs have some discretion in what they offer customers.


Try At&t. They have no commitments nor box rentals. Up to 4 or was it 5 boxes free of charge.

I was smart enough to realize that giving DirecTV $199.00 up front on a leased item was stupid and therefore I didn't. Just the shipping cost of $19.99. DirecTV doesn't need my $199.00. I do.

My recommendation to you is to get these special deals *in writing* before you sign up for anything. If they refuse, then see ya.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Scott D said:


> Try At&t. They have no commitments nor box rentals. Up to 4 or was it 5 boxes free of charge.


Personally, I'm very happy with DirecTV and would only leave if Verizon FiOS was available in my area.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> Now, let's look at the real math.
> 
> That's $199.00 up front on a leased box, non refundable and $4.99 rental fee thereafter. Can't you people see that????
> 
> You go to a store and buy for a high dollar price on a box that isn't yours and never see that money again. You didn't buy it to keep, you were overcharged to use it.


Of course. But did you not read my post at all?

DirecTV - $199 plus 4.99 a month
Cable - $20 a month

After 14 months both have cost the same. Starting the 15th month and beyond cable gets a lot more expensive. Can't you see that?!?  

DirecTV - More up front, much lower monthly fees
Cable - Just high monthly fees

YOU PAY MORE WITH CABLE DESPITE NO UP FRONT FEES. Can't you see that?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> DirecTV wants you to pay them $199.00 up front cost on a box that doesn't belong to you anyway and that money is non refundable nor is it used for rental fee costs. *That is free money you gave to DirecTV.* Then, throughout your time with DirecTV, there is a rental cost as well. 4 or 5 dollars. What I fail to understand is why the customers think it's alright to give DirecTV free cash. I wouldn't.


So I guess it's ok to give cable $20 a month in "free money" that you never get back either. And after 14 months you keep paying them a lot more free money then you are paying DirecTV.

Come one now...


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> You're right. I F***ed up. It's all my fault. How dare me to accuse them of these lies. DirecTV is the best. I'm calling this week to get this wonderful company who loves me back!


Ummmm, nobody is saying you did the wrong thing. What you did is the right thing if it's making you happier then you were with DirecTV.

What is flawed is saying that eveyone else that stays with DirecTV is a fool with their money.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Scott D said:


> Are you going to get your $199.00 money back on a box you don't own. Yes or no.


The question makes no sense. I don't own the box, so why should I get money back for it? I have the use of the box for as long as I want. If you lease a car, do you expect to have the dealer refund the money you paid at the end of the lease?

Are the people who paid $1000 for the HR10 going to get their money back?


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

stevel said:


> The question makes no sense. I don't own the box, so why should I get money back for it? I have the use of the box for as long as I want. If you lease a car, do you expect to have the dealer refund the money you paid at the end of the lease?
> 
> Are the people who paid $1000 for the HR10 going to get their money back?


Never mind them, how about idjits like me that spent well over $600 to get a NON-dvr back in the early days of DirecTV. Those first generation receivers that cost a fortune and only let you get programming from DirecTV or USSB (remember them?). What did we get out of paying out all of that money to DirecTV? Oh, yeah, programming. Lots of it. More than we could get from cable, or an equivalent amount of it, for much less than the evil cable companies charged.

When we sold those boxes we got pennies on the dollar for them, if that. We owned them, but they cost us much more up front because DirecTV didn't have a leasing model back then and didn't offer big discounts to hook in customers for any period of time. It was truly take it or leave it, and there really wasn't much choice.

And then again, there were HOA's that had restrictions that kept potential DirecTV customers from becoming customers. Those customers were locked into cable with no choice at all.

I've been there and done that, and still rejoice the day I was able to tell Jones/Comcast cable to kiss my rosey rear-end as I left their 18 channels (other than about 20 locals) behind in favor of DirecTV and their 90+ channels. Even the hassles of having to use a broadcast antenna to receive over-the-air local programming was worth every bit of the work that I put into it (I still use that ota antenna to get hi-def programming even now).

Unless you are going with strictly over-the-air programming on a Media Center box or Myth TV type box, you are paying someone for your programming. I choose to pay DirecTV and happily do so. Having a 2 year commitment to DirecTV doesn't bother me at all. I'm several months into my latest commitment and will probably extend the commitment again soon enough to add another high def receiver to my account. Small price to pay for great programming and good service. Most certainly not a stupid or foolish thing to do.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

stevel said:


> The question makes no sense. I don't own the box, so why should I get money back for it? I have the use of the box for as long as I want. If you lease a car, do you expect to have the dealer refund the money you paid at the end of the lease?
> 
> Are the people who paid $1000 for the HR10 going to get their money back?


Oh well. Sorry to hear that.

Stick with the program. Car leases have nothing to do with this. Neither does cell or anything else other than cable companies.

With that said, I paid nothing up front for a cable box rental. Just the lease fee. AT&T has no rental fees.

Oh, I forgot. This is DirecTV. The *best* TV in the world. They charge $200.00 up front *AND* rental fees.

Have fun paying DirecTV all your money. It's a bonus. If you don't like that fact, I feel sorry for you. Really, I do and this is not meant to be an insult. Yeah, this is the way DirecTV does business but does it make it right. Not this time.

Just for the record, I asked quite a few people, over 20 and lost count, whether they wanted to pay the up front cost for a leased product and 100% of them said no knowing it was a lease. They were good to pay even 6 or 7 hundred dollars up front if they get to keep it and not be a lease. Most of them are or were DirecTV customers.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

bdowell said:


> Never mind them, how about idjits like me that spent well over $600 to get a NON-dvr back in the early days of DirecTV. Those first generation receivers that cost a fortune and only let you get programming from DirecTV or USSB (remember them?). What did we get out of paying out all of that money to DirecTV? Oh, yeah, programming. Lots of it. More than we could get from cable, or an equivalent amount of it, for much less than the evil cable companies charged.
> 
> When we sold those boxes we got pennies on the dollar for them, if that. We owned them, but they cost us much more up front because DirecTV didn't have a leasing model back then and didn't offer big discounts to hook in customers for any period of time. It was truly take it or leave it, and there really wasn't much choice.
> 
> ...


No, I'm not going to pay DirecTV free money for nothing. Meaning, giving them $200.00 that goes nowhere except in their pocket. That's what it really is. The only thing that DirecTV has done better than the cable companies is the lease fee. 4 to 5 dollars is a good price. Giving them $200.00 that doesn't go towards the rental or not returning the box during cancellation is stupid. But if you WANT to give them a bonus, go right ahead. I'd love each and everyone of you pay me bonuses like that.

That's what it really is. A bonus for DirecTV. That's why I don't go to CC or BB to purchase those receivers as I used to. It's a waste of money especially when the receiver is not yours.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Ummmm, nobody is saying you did the wrong thing. What you did is the right thing if it's making you happier then you were with DirecTV.
> 
> What is flawed is saying that eveyone else that stays with DirecTV is a fool with their money.


Where is the flaw? What I said is people spend their money carelessly and companies like DirecTV take advantage of it. You gave DirecTV a free $200.00. That meaning that anybody that paid DirecTV an up front cost to get that receiver has just parted with their money. It's a lease. You don't pay up front costs for a lease that is not used for anything at all for the lease.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

<Yawn>

What was the title of the thread again?


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

codespy said:


> <Yawn>


:up:


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> Where is the flaw? What I said is people spend their money carelessly and companies like DirecTV take advantage of it. You gave DirecTV a free $200.00. That meaning that anybody that paid DirecTV an up front cost to get that receiver has just parted with their money.


Oh well, it's obvious you want to ignore the math and the facts.

I chose to pay $199 up front and then I only get a $5 a month fee.
Or I could pay cable $20 a month for the same thing.

Can you not add? Or are you choosing to ignore the numbers just to make yourself feel better?

There is no problem with leaving DirecTV, none at all. If you want to justify it based on getting better channels, or a lower price for your programming or a better DVR or whatever. Awesome.
But to try to justify it in the way you are just makes no sense because anyone that can add can see right thru it. $200 up front....big deal. It pays for itself vs. cable after just 14 months and then it's *cheaper* then cable. But for some reason you have up front costs up your arss and can't get it out. Good luck with that! :up:


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> No, I'm not going to pay DirecTV free money for nothing. Meaning, giving them $200.00 that goes nowhere except in their pocket. That's what it really is. The only thing that DirecTV has done better than the cable companies is the lease fee. 4 to 5 dollars is a good price. Giving them $200.00 that doesn't go towards the rental or not returning the box during cancellation is stupid. But if you WANT to give them a bonus, go right ahead. I'd love each and everyone of you pay me bonuses like that.
> 
> That's what it really is. A bonus for DirecTV. That's why I don't go to CC or BB to purchase those receivers as I used to. It's a waste of money especially when the receiver is not yours.


But you're more then willing to give cable *more* money that goes toward "nothing"? You're chasing your own tail here.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

That's right. Like me you want to have it your way. I choose to spend my money wisely. I don't just give my money away carelessly. Not saying you do. I choose not to pay excessive money on a rental.

Math, one more time. For some of you out there, this is what you spent.....

$200.00 just to get the equipment that is not yours.
$5.00 for month to month lease.

It takes 40 months or 3.3 years to equal $200.00 just with a $5.00 lease fee.

Now, I am wondering where this $200.00 comes in. Where is it used? Is it a deposit? Does it get used if you cancel early? Do you get a credit if you stay for a complete contract? Does this $200.00 get returned to you at any time after the contract or cancellation when you are no longer in contract? Dealing with you account only, where is it used? I already know DirecTV uses it no problem at all. They surely do appreciate it. How and where is that $200.00 applied within your account? That is money that shouldn't have been spent for rental. I would agree with this if any of the above is true. It's not. DirecTV will not return nor credit your account in the amount of the up front cost. Basically, you can kiss that money good-bye for you will never see it again.

As I said moments ago. DirecTV will certainly use that cash to better this and that with DirecTV. They got your $200.00, why should they care. They don't.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Scott D said:


> That's right. Like me you want to have it your way. I choose to spend my money wisely. I don't just give my money away carelessly. Not saying you do. I choose not to pay excessive money on a rental.
> 
> Math, one more time. For some of you out there, this is what you spent.....
> 
> ...


Where are you getting $5.00 month-to-month lease fee?

Oh, let me get it straight.... I pay $4.99 / month 'mirroring fee' for each additional receiver, and pay $5.99 (if memory serves) for the DVR fee for my whole house. My primary receiver is included in my monthly fee, so I pay how much again for a month-to-month lease?

Oooops, correct answer is *zero*.

If you want to call the mirroring fee a lease fee that is fine, but I pay only one fee.

Get me the equivalent equipment and equivalent programming from cable or FiOS in my area for anything close to the same price and then you might win the argument. Until then, you really are tilting at the windmill something awful.

You won. Great for you. Too bad in reality you get less HD programming and/or less sports package availability, and eventually you'll get a huge increase in your programming costs (after the initial discount period runs out). Will you be spending time on a cable company related forums crying the blues then?


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Once again. If you feel good about DirecTV, I'm fine with that. It's your money. You can spend it anyway you want to. If you choose to pursue other avenues within DirecTV or elsewhere, you can do that too. You don't need my permission but however it seems I need yours.

I really don't care what you do. You can gamble it all away for all I care or put it into a savings account. 

But to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about?

Would you feel better if I said "you're right? And that I'll sign back up with DirecTV immediately because you said they're the best.

I don't recall telling you what to do, and it bothers you a little but you can do it to me? And others?


I don't plan on changing anybody's mind just to have an understanding as to what one member feels, but I keep forgetting, I don't belong in this club even though I still do own TiVo's. If I am wrong, which I can find no other options, that this is a rude place, then prove me wrong.


One thing I will not change is my belief.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

bdowell said:


> Where are you getting $5.00 month-to-month lease fee?
> 
> Oh, let me get it straight.... I pay $4.99 / month 'mirroring fee' for each additional receiver, and pay $5.99 (if memory serves) for the DVR fee for my whole house. My primary receiver is included in my monthly fee, so I pay how much again for a month-to-month lease?
> 
> ...


AT&T= no commitment and zero rental fee and packages are much cheaper than DirecTV. There you go.

Also you forgot to tell me where the $200.00 went.

And where did I get the $5.00 from? You said it. The mirroring fee. Deactivate the box, the mirroring fee goes with it.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

codespy said:


> <Yawn>
> 
> What was the title of the thread again?


As a friendly reminder that this thread was about DirecTV charging me for channels that I can't receive and when asked to lower the price just a few dollars, they laughed at me. They were willing to turn it off probably for a price. Trying to involve me in a contract which didn't happen because this was not an upgrade. It was an update.

It took the Office of the President to fix this.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

My complaint is what does DirecTV do with the $199.00 they want up front on a leased Receiver as it pertains to your account. Nobody wants to answer that one. I am only interested in the leased side of it.

I already know they're using this money, as you want to call it, for better stuff down the road. More channels and the like. I want to know how that $200.00 applies to me and my account to a point of which, will I ever see it again? Will this money be used in some way pertaining to me only or is it only for DirecTV. 

If anybody can give me a reasonable answer then I'll back down. Otherwise, maybe you should back down. I know it's hard for you to do, but try. I hold my word. I don't think the same applies the other way around.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Scott D said:


> My complaint is what does DirecTV do with the $199.00 they want up front on a leased Receiver as it pertains to your account. Nobody wants to answer that one. I am only interested in the leased side of it.
> 
> I already know they're using this money, as you want to call it, for better stuff down the road. More channels and the like. I want to know how that $200.00 applies to me and my account to a point of which, will I ever see it again? Will this money be used in some way pertaining to me only or is it only for DirecTV.
> 
> If anybody can give me a reasonable answer then I'll back down. Otherwise, maybe you should back down. I know it's hard for you to do, but try. I hold my word. I don't think the same applies the other way around.


Tell us where the many dollars will go that you'll be paying to AT&T or the cable company for the box rental fees you'll be paying.

You've been shown more than enough times for even the most dense of individuals to see that you'll pay more to the cable company and also wind up with no equipment at the end.

We may not like paying DirecTV $199 up front to get the HD DVRs, but after the fact the cost isn't any more than the cable company charges. DirecTV charges most of their fee up front but then charges less for their HD DVRs over the long term. The cable companies charge less (or nothing) up front, but then charge much more for the DVR rental fees. Who wins in either case? The companies, not the consumers for either.

Cry a river about the $199 charge and celebrate about getting the fee waived by being as big a pain-in-the-rear-end for DirecTV as you have been here. After the fact it's not saving the next customer any money or any commitment so you are doing nothing but wasting time trying to satisfy some need that seems to go unfulfilled.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

By the way, as a comparison, lets check out a few options...

Verizon FiOS

Base package, $47.99 (for a single, standard set top box).
Upgrade to HD, but without a DVR, add $9.99 for the upgrade.
Upgrade to HD with a DVR make that upgrade fee $15.99

Where the hell does that extra $10 or $11 per month that Verizon collects go!??!?! I DEMAND TO KNOW!!! How many months will it take for them to collect $199 and much, much more from me?!!? I must suck at math because I just don't see it taking that long before the $10 (or $11) per month that they will charge makes up for the up front fee at DirecTV.

Comcast's 'on going' price for their Digital Basic package is $56.40 / month (in my area) plus install fee of at least $32.50, more if I have never had cable (though they politely discount my service for a year... big whoop...).

HDTV charge is another $7.50 / month.

DVR (theirs) charge is $27.90 / month. Whoa!!!! How many months will that take to more than make up the $199 charge?!?! Answer: not friggin' many.

Never mind that I have more than one DVR in my home (all HD). Never mind that each additional DVR costs me nothing more than the lease fee.

The costs just don't add up for most people, so we happily pay $199 to DirecTV for the right to pay them lower prices over time. You didn't want to, great for you. Move on. Go watch TV already. Stop coming back here and beating the dead horse.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

If DirecTV worked like a cable company and instead of charging you $200 for the receiver "up front" and $4.99 mirroring/leasing fee what if they charged you you $0 up-front and $14.50/month lease/rental fee? Would that have made a difference?



Scott D said:


> My complaint is what does DirecTV do with the $199.00 they want up front on a leased Receiver as it pertains to your account. Nobody wants to answer that one. I am only interested in the leased side of it.
> 
> I already know they're using this money, as you want to call it, for better stuff down the road. More channels and the like. I want to know how that $200.00 applies to me and my account to a point of which, will I ever see it again? Will this money be used in some way pertaining to me only or is it only for DirecTV.
> 
> If anybody can give me a reasonable answer then I'll back down. Otherwise, maybe you should back down. I know it's hard for you to do, but try. I hold my word. I don't think the same applies the other way around.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

incog-neato said:


> If DirecTV worked like a cable company and instead of charging you $200 for the receiver "up front" and $4.99 mirroring/leasing fee what if they charged you you $0 up-front and $14.50/month lease/rental fee? Would that have made a difference?


heh, compared to the numbers above, $14.50 a month for lease/rental fee of the cable box would be cheap. See DVR prices above for Comcast  Double that price and you're in the ballpark for the rip-off pricing that Comcast offers.

I know there are alternatives, such as using a TiVo HD or a Series 3 or similar solution, but then you need cable cards and cooperation from the cable company. While they are on the hook for providing cable cards (even though some cable companies are less than cooperative in that area), the prices that some cable companies charge in some areas vary wildly leaving customers paying high prices just for the right to be able to use these boxes. There's also typically a fee for sending a technician out (normally required) to install the cards and that fee is typically enough to make a pretty good dent in that same $199 fee that is being complained about above.

Any way that a reasonable individual slices it, that $199 'wasted' fee that is paid to DirecTV is a fairly small price to pay.

After the fact, I sort of wish that DirecTV would just relabel that fee as 'advanced receiver installation fee - required*' (*but may be waived at discretion of DirecTV) and let the complaints go away. By including the asterisk they could waive the fee (as they have done) for some customers, or charge it and tell the customer too bad, they have to pay that fee in addition to any other installation fee that is required. Once the fee is an install fee and no longer a lease upgrade fee, then perhaps some complaints would go away.

Unfortunately if DirecTV did this the cable companies would probably sieze upon the newly increased installation fee in their marketing materials, blast DirecTV for the high costs of installation and make the competitive market tougher for them.

DirecTV can't win here. There will likely always be a Scott D or an RS4 (who seem more and more to be the same individual here, but I digress...) who will complain about something.

Again, if you don't like them, go pick another provider. After you live with the cable company and their price increases and hassles, you may find things weren't that bad with DirecTV. Either way, crying about them doesn't do any good.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

If one really wants to know what the $199 fee is, the receiver costs DirecTV $400 to build. Somehow they don't want to just give you $400 in equipment for nothing. 

But as pointed out I don't know how many times, you either pay up front with lower monthly costs or you can just pay higher monthly costs. At the end of the day DirecTV ends up being cheaper even with the up front fee. But maybe Scott D would rather have DirecTV just charge $15 or $20 a month like cable and FIOS. Don't think he'd be happier though.

Maybe AT&T has a great deal going on right now that makes it cheaper. Awesome. That's great and glad you made the move. AT&T can only do 1 HD stream into the house. Ouch. Perhaps that's enough for some, great. I applaud anyone going and getting a better deal. But to keep ignoring the math for the majority just doesn't make sense.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> Yes you do because you can't answer a simple question. What is the $200.00 used for pertaining to your account if you spent it at all.
> 
> *Since you and nobody else can or will answer where the money goes, I claim to be right.*


It's pretty obvious. The box costs DirecTV $400 to make. So they charge and up front fee to get it and less per month because of the up front fee. If not for that up front fee they would charge triple or more per month, just like cable or FIOS.

So it's pick your poison. An up front fee and less per month or a higher fee per month. Either way they get your money and over a short period of time you come out ahead with DirecTV. Can't believe you can't see that. OH well.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

And everybody else's boxes are cheaper? I don't think so. Nobody else does this EXCEPT DirecTV. NOBODY. 


only DirecTV. And yes. There is a lease fee on top of that as well. Why? Because my bill says so. It says "Leased Receiver" for $4.99. Plus the $200.00 that I'll never see again. This isn't very difficult to understand. I would not mind IF that money was for a 2 year agreement AND there were no lease fee applied during that time as well. I wouldn't mind also if that $200.00 was a holding fee in case you fail to return the equipment BUT must be returned upon sending the receiver back.

But, as far as I can tell that nobody seems to get the grasp of, is that this money is not used for anything except self gain. A tax, if you will. Perhaps it is best described in fuel costs although they have nothing but one thing in common. They do it because they can and get away with it.


As far as a higher price on rental, I feel it would be better than paying everything up front especially when you can't get it back and if you don't use $200.00 for the time it has per monthly rental fees which lasts for abot 3 years, uou just wasted a portion of it.


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

#1) It depends on what Comcast market you are in how much the HD-DVR fee is.
#2) The $8.99 is ON TOP OF the standard receiver "per outlet" fee. In my area the fee "per outlet" with an HD-DVR is almost $14 from Comcast.
#3) As to "where does the ($200) money go" and with no disrespect intended, where the f do you think it goes? It goes to DirecTV. Would you expect it to go to Comcast?

This whole thread is getting sillier by the minute. Bottom line is, virtually no one who expended any sort of effort (and most needed to expend zero effort) , have paid $200 for the receiver under question anyway so the argument is really moot.

My biggest ***** is the 2yr agreement. 1yr would be fair but 2 (IMO) is too much but yet I don't complain when my cell company wants 2 years (if I take new SUBSIDIZED EQUIPMENT) so I guess I am a hypocrite as well.

By the way, in the part of the DirecTV connected industry where I work, ANY CUSTOMER who purchases any DirecTV advanced equipment either from DirecTV, from retail, or from us for the same $0-$200 every one else pays OWNS it (it isn't leased) PLUS they only have a 1 year agreement. Betcha that'll annoy you even more. It annoys me since I don't qualify but our 60,000 plus customers across the US like it.



Scott D said:


> You lie! You're such a liar.
> 
> HD package. $3.00 and all the rest of the HD channels are included.
> HD DVR rental is 8.99 a month according to their web site.
> ...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Scott D said:


> only DirecTV. And yes. There is a lease fee on top of that as well. Why? Because my bill says so. It says "Leased Receiver" for $4.99. Plus the $200.00 that I'll never see again. This isn't very difficult to understand.


Even if you owned the box... you would be paying the monthly $4.99 fee.
The mirroring fee.... The fact that they use that line item on the bill, and call it two different things... is just a way they communicate with you the user and track it themselve, on which receivers are owned and which are leased.

As for the $200 you'll never see again.... You may see it in a different fashion... You may get a discount on your next upgrade... You may get something else.... so never say never..

But what about those of us that spent $1,000 (or more in a lot of cases) on HR10-250's.... I didn't see that $1,000 again... I saw $50 on it, when I finally found someone willing to purchase it...

I would LOVE to have paid $199, or $99, or free... even if it was a lease... on the unit.

As we have pointed out many times in many discussions about the leasing toppic...
Was is the benefit to owning?

At the rate the re-sale value of the boxes drop... you are not going to get much back on your initial investiment, unless you sell it shortly after obtaining it.
Selling the parts is even less valuable now.... as not many people are going to replace pieces in their units (like bezels, power supplies).... the hard drive isn't even worth that much...


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> And everybody else's boxes are cheaper? I don't think so. Nobody else does this EXCEPT DirecTV. NOBODY.


Ummm, Dish does it and has for a very long time. Many people have switched from Dish to DirecTV because Dish wants a few hundred for an upgrade to a 722. Oh, and it's leased too.

You still don't get this very simple fact: $199 up front plus $5 a month or $20 a month for 14 months. Both equal *the exact same amount of money*. But starting at month 15 your are still paying cable $20 a month vs. just $5 to DirecTV.

Guess what, it's cheaper to go the route DirecTV takes. Assuming you stay with them for 14 months that is. I guess if you're one that switches services every year then no, it's not less going with DirecTV.



> There is a lease fee on top of that as well. Why? Because my bill says so. It says "Leased Receiver" for $4.99. Plus the $200.00 that I'll never see again. This isn't very difficult to understand. I would not mind IF that money was for a 2 year agreement AND there were no lease fee applied during that time as well. I wouldn't mind also if that $200.00 was a holding fee in case you fail to return the equipment BUT must be returned upon sending the receiver back.


Ummm, it's the programming mirror fee that you're paying that has been around since the start over a decade ago. It's just called different things.

Own the receiver - "Additional receiver fee"
Lease the receiver - "Lease fee"

Same fee no matter what.

$200 up front to lease or $500 to own. Same monthly fee. Wow, math is hard.  

And actually if it's your only receiver you don't pay *any* monthly mirror fee. So it's just $200 and you're done, no extra lease fees.



> As far as a higher price on rental, I feel it would be better than paying everything up front especially when you can't get it back and if you don't use $200.00 for the time it has per monthly rental fees which lasts for abot 3 years, uou just wasted a portion of it.


Wow you lost me there. But you'd rather pay *more* in the end with higher monthly fees. Hey, there is nothing wrong with that if that's what you like to do and obviously millions of others do as well. But in what universe is it wrong for me to actually want to pay *less* by giving $200 of it up front? 

This thread cracks me up the longer it goes. LOL.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Scott D said:


> You lie! You're such a liar.
> 
> HD package. $3.00 and all the rest of the HD channels are included.
> HD DVR rental is 8.99 a month according to their web site.
> ...


Thanks for calling me a liar. Nice attack on another forum member. 

Those numbers above came directly from Comcast's website when I supplied information (zipcode and street address) FOR MY AREA. Sorry to have disappointed your opportunity to claim that my numbers aren't factual and correct.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Scott D said:


> And everybody else's boxes are cheaper? I don't think so. Nobody else does this EXCEPT DirecTV. NOBODY.


Should I return the favor {he muses..... nah, calling this a lie would just be so not nice...}

No one else does this and everyone else's boxes are cheaper? My butt.

How much does a TiVo box cost, how long is the commitment period, and again HOW MUCH ADDITIONAL COST IS INVOLVED IN USING IT?! Cable card cost? Cost of a technician to get the cable cards installed (though that should be a trivial task and shouldn't require a tech, in most places the cable companies won't just provide them, they must send out a tech -- most of the time with the tech never having seen a TiVo box and being absolutely clueless about using the cards in other devices  ) Those boxes are really cheaper? Really? For how long? Certainly over the course of a few years they may not be any cheaper.

Verizon's numbers -- see above (which were also derived right from Verizon's web site, using the prices shown from supplying my own home address) -- and their box prices are certainly not that cheap, though you can at least bundle (for a while, eventually the price will likely go up) the HD DVR service with a movie package to save about $6 - $8 off the combined price (still approx. $20 / month, plus base charges).

How are those prices any cheaper than the $199 that -- as noted multiple times here, but apparently not getting through some readers colored glasses -- helps to offset the cost of the 'advanced' boxes that DirecTV is providing?? Over the course of about 14 - 18 months the amount that is being paid out to any other provider is zooming right on by DirecTV's prices.



ScottD said:


> But, as far as I can tell that nobody seems to get the grasp of, is that this money is not used for anything except self gain. A tax, if you will. Perhaps it is best described in fuel costs although they have nothing but one thing in common. They do it because they can and get away with it.


... and what the hell is wrong with doing it because they can or doing it because they are helping to offset the costs of the $400 - $600 worth of hardware they provided to you EARLY in the transaction rather than later?

Do you really want anyone -- not just you, but anyone -- to be forced to pay $15 per month to get an HD DVR? Really? Seriously? You'd pay $15 per month just to lose the $199 up front fee? Then 20 months later you wouldn't be crying about how friggin' expensive that monthly fee is? 30 months later you wouldn't be crying? 48 months later?

That's pretty much the choice we'd get. DirecTV figures that they can charge the cost upfront and avoid having to be concerned about whether or not you'll stay 3 years at $12 / month, or 4 years at $10 / month or some seriously long period of time that would be needed to make back the cost of the hardware at prices that most customers just don't want to see.

They've figured out that most customers will pay $199 up front -- begrudgingly -- if it means that they can have lower prices over the life of their commitment. Sounds like a pretty reasonable plan for most people.



dilorc said:


> *As far as a higher price on rental, I feel it would be better than paying everything up front especially when you can't get it back and if you don't use $200.00 for the time it has per monthly rental fees which lasts for abot 3 years, uou just wasted a portion of it.*


Speak for yourself. No way I want to pay $10 or more per month just to avoid that one time fee. After 20 months that profit you don't want DirecTV to have would be going up quite nicely. Not going to happen from this end. And for someone that apparently begrudges DirecTV that $200 in upfront costs (even if it's pure profit, which it isn't) why are you that willing to give them so much more profit later?

Finally, on that $199 that you seem to have stuck somewhere pretty deeply... even if that is 'pure profit', it isn't that at all. It cost money to supply the boxes, ship the boxes (you forget to mention that the shipping of the boxes is free, even if the real cost is $20 per 'box' to get the boxes shipped out to dealers to take to customers), and get them installed. Most of the time the installation fee is WAIVED (as I'm sure it was for you), but if you did have to pay it would be in the neighbor of $60 (and really doesn't come close to making the dealer/installer any real money....), and then of course there's the people on the other end of the phone line that are taking your call or the installer's call to activate your service. They get paid something too.

So that $199 of 'profit' and money just handed to DirecTV isn't just going to DirecTV. It's going to offset costs along the way. Even if it was going straight to John Malone's (new 'owner' of DirecTV) bottom line, why complain? Oh, yeah, because you can.... because it's a dead horse and some people seem to be into animal abuse.


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

person A's money goes "here" -- they're happy with that

person B's money goes "here" -- they're happy with that

there are so many more constructive/useful things everyone could be doing with their time than continuing this useless argument, like watching tv.


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## codespy (Jan 7, 2006)

Scott D said:


> My complaint is what does DirecTV do with the $199.00 they want up front on a leased Receiver as it pertains to your account. Nobody wants to answer that one. I am only interested in the leased side of it.
> 
> I already know they're using this money, as you want to call it, for better stuff down the road. More channels and the like. I want to know how that $200.00 applies to me and my account to a point of which, will I ever see it again? Will this money be used in some way pertaining to me only or is it only for DirecTV.
> 
> If anybody can give me a reasonable answer then I'll back down. Otherwise, maybe you should back down. I know it's hard for you to do, but try. I hold my word. I don't think the same applies the other way around.


Your $199.00 plus tax you paid is going to DirecTV to pay for my last 4 HD DVR's I got from them as promotions at no charge. But then again I've been with them for 10 years, have a bunch of receivers, and buy expensive sports programming, and was never late on a bill.

Your leased receiver fee of $4.99 is a mirror fee. I have 4 leased and 5 owned. Owned receivers show up as additional receiver vs. leased receiver and each receiver after the first one is 4.99 a pop whether you work for DTV or not.

And the original title was 'any members actually work at DTV?' I think that has been answered well earlier in the thread.

And yes I can be a smarta$$ once in a while. DTV still provides a decent but not perfect service. :up:


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

DirecTV does it again.

I was told that I will be receiving a final bill in the mail. I asked what I should do with the current statement that I already had received. I was told not to worry about it and just pay the final bill when I receive it. Well, earlier this week, I got the bill. The amount was exactly what I was told it would be and the bill was received in the time frame I was told it would be received.

Mar 22 was the cutoff date of which the payment was due and my services were to be terminated as of Apr 1. The phone call I got from the "Office of the President" was on Mar 27. I was told as to what would be happening in the days to come. As I stated, the final bill arriving within seven days after the cancellation date of Apr 1 and the exact amount. *A new order or agreement has taken place.*

So, I get my bill and write a check for the correct amount specified and put it in the mailbox and sent it on its way. Well, lo and behold, DirecTV decided to go into my bank account without my permission and take more money from me. In this case, late fees. Leave it to DirecTV to screw you.

Now I got to pay more money to cancel the check or never see that money ever again. I smell a lawsuit approaching.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

As to post 130, it goes to show you how the day to day operations work at DirecTV. You can say what you want as to how wonderful DirecTV is but the one fact remains. They (DirecTV) knew that they were wrong, but didn't care. The bill stands, so tough. 

If that's who you want to associate yourself with, go right ahead. This kind of business tactics aren't going to fly with me. Point is, DirecTV lied to me again. Them scum bags.


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## GuidoTKP (Feb 22, 2004)

Dude, nobody lied to you it just looks like somebody forgot to mention that the computer now automatically takes the final payment off of whatever cc you have on file, you can of course get worked up over this or you can calm down and realize that Directv will send you a check for any overage paid by you, but it is all up to you, I am truly sorry that you are so upset over what Directv chooses to charge for their equipment and the commitment that comes with it but you did do the right thing by voting with your wallet.
Have a nice day and I hope you decide to calm down before you give yourself a heart attack.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

GuidoTKP said:


> Dude, nobody lied to you it just looks like somebody forgot to mention that the computer now automatically takes the final payment off of whatever cc you have on file, you can of course get worked up over this or you can calm down and realize that Directv will send you a check for any overage paid by you, but it is all up to you, I am truly sorry that you are so upset over what Directv chooses to charge for their equipment and the commitment that comes with it but you did do the right thing by voting with your wallet.
> Have a nice day and I hope you decide to calm down before you give yourself a heart attack.


Just to let you know, since nobody ever listens to me correctly. When I said they lied to me, they lied to me. Multiple times. This automatic payment *should have never happen *!!!!! I was under a *new agreement* as specified *by the company* that the *current customer contract* was *null and void*.

If they wanted to automatically get the final payment, why didn't they just take the amount I owed instead of tacking on an additional late fee? Furthermore, *DirecTV told me to pay it manually*.

That is the reason I'm leaving DirecTV and I would suggest the same for everybody. If you didn't get screwed yet by DirecTV, your time will come if DirecTV continues to operate in this manner.

Go read the web about customer satisfaction. it's 95% bad reviews. I've read the good and bad. It works like this. If you have no problems with your service in any way, everything's good. Start having problems, and it falls apart.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> It works like this. If you have no problems with your service in any way, everything's good. Start having problems, and it falls apart.


Not to defend DirecTV in any way, but I can say the exact same thing about every company out there. Doesn't make it right but it's just the way it is.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Here is one of many samples of how inept DirecTV is.

Enjoy and good-bye!


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

shibby191 said:


> Not to defend DirecTV in any way, but I can say the exact same thing about every company out there. Doesn't make it right but it's just the way it is.


And yes I do agree. Where it changes is if other companies honestly correct their mistakes. We will see.

I know sure as hell AT&T does. They go out of their way to satisfy their customers. That's why I'm keeping them.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Scott D said:


> And yes I do agree. Where it changes is if other companies honestly correct their mistakes. We will see.
> 
> I know sure as hell AT&T does. They go out of their way to satisfy their customers. That's why I'm keeping them.


LOL. That's funny actually. AT&T not giving a darn is why I left them and went to Vonage. They were terrible and I will never use AT&T for anything again. 

I think it just shows as I think I mentioned long ago, every company has people that love them and people that think they are hell spawn. Just all depends on our dealings with them.

I can give T-Mobile as an example. I actually never had a problem with them and had nothing but good dealings with their customer support. I needed to leave them due to getting Nextel thru my work paid for me. I've had nothing but trouble with Sprint/Nextel. But it's free so I deal with it.

But I personally know people that think T-Mobile is nothing more then the evil overlord while they love Sprint like their pet cat.

It really does all depend on our personal experiences. And I will typically not recommend companies because I know everyone has different experiences. When I do I always say "I haven't had any problems" as a way to save myself. 

Good luck.


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## GuidoTKP (Feb 22, 2004)

Scott D said:


> And yes I do agree. Where it changes is if other companies honestly correct their mistakes. We will see.
> 
> I know sure as hell AT&T does. They go out of their way to satisfy their customers. That's why I'm keeping them.


Just to reiterate what Shibby said all large corporations have problems, it is unfortunate but it is the nature of the beast when you are dealing with millions of customers.

Here are a few examples:

AT&T http://www.bigwebs.com/webs/att/
COMCAST http://www.my3cents.com/search.cgi?criteria=Comcast
\
I could go on but there is no real point. again I am sorry you had problems but try to keep everything in perspective...it is only TV after all.


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

GuidoTKP said:


> Just to reiterate what Shibby said all large corporations have problems, it is unfortunate but it is the nature of the beast when you are dealing with millions of customers.
> 
> Here are a few examples:
> 
> ...


That is true. It's only TV.

Th Shibby.....

As to AT&T, what they did for me was this. In one day, I got a little over 200 E-mails of which 4 of them were legit. Called to say that we need to fix this. Due to the enormous flood of mail, they elected to close my account for about a week and set up a new account with a new E-mail address at no charge. That's what happened with me and AT&T.

I do say my E-mail was ridiculous, huh?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

The sample you post is from an uniformed customer who obviously lives in a mdu (multi-dwelling unit / apartment). All DirecTV "free install" fliers and promotions apply only to residential single family dwellings and if the offer is from DirecTV itself (not a 3rd party satellite installer) it usually states that (albeit in fine print). The example you posted stated "they wanted to charge me $100 because I am in an apartment" made that perfectly clear. We (I am NOT with DirecTV) have dozens of customers a day who call us and say "DTV website says free install on 4 receiver, but why do you want to charge me $$$$." There are 2 sides to every story and usually only one is correct .... so please choose a "legit" customer complaint in your next post. 



Scott D said:


> Here is one of many samples of how inept DirecTV is.
> 
> Enjoy and good-bye!


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> The sample you post is from an uniformed customer who obviously lives in a mdu (multi-dwelling unit / apartment). All DirecTV "free install" fliers and promotions apply only to residential single family dwellings and if the offer is from DirecTV itself (not a 3rd party satellite installer) it usually states that (albeit in fine print). The example you posted stated "they wanted to charge me $100 because I am in an apartment" made that perfectly clear. We (I am NOT with DirecTV) have dozens of customers a day who call us and say "DTV website says free install on 4 receiver, but why do you want to charge me $$$$." There are 2 sides to every story and usually only one is correct .... so please choose a "legit" customer complaint in your next post.


If you want to find one that suits your needs, you have the Internet. Just go look it up and do the research yourself. I'm not going to do it for you. If you didn't like the example, then tough. Sorry you are not pleased.

You MUST work for DirecTV simply on the basis, even if I did find one (or many) customer complaints including my own plus the 20 or so friends I know personally that you will deny them all.

Oh well. You have a nice day, ok?


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## incog-neato (Sep 18, 2007)

I "must" work for DirecTV? LOL, heaven forbid. We do deal with them on a daily basis but we are not connected with them at all. We are a major supplier (MSO) of DirecTV, private cable & Internet services to contracted multi-dwelling properties across the country. We have no connection with DirecTV other then the fact we install their services & service the properties we contract with. I do have DirecTV service at home just as you do, er, did. (and NO, I don't even get a discount).

I don't deny any complaints. Every large company has complaints. I personally hear dozens every day from our customers, some legit and many not legit. We have about 70,000 DirecTV customers in around 800 properties. There are THOUSANDS who do not complain (millions if it's ALL DirecTV customers are included). I just noted the specific complaint you chose was invalid.

If you are unable to comprehend "where the $199 goes" by now then I can't help you It was explained to you numerous times over and it seems you are unable to understand or accept it, so why keep asking? You obviously don't WANT to understand.

If all you want is for someone to say "you're right" so we can end this silly discussion I'll gladly say it: YOU'RE RIGHT! Then maybe, like Mark Lopez, you'll finally go away (except he still is a DirecTV customer so he has some reason to be here). You're no longer with DirecTV or have a DirecTV HD-DVR with TiVo or a DirecTV DVR+ so at this time what do you gain by being here? As you correctly state there are lots of websites to vent your frustration and file complaints where people will empathize with you and you won't have to get your blood pressure up.



Scott D said:


> If you want to find one that suits your needs, you have the Internet. Just go look it up and do the research yourself. I'm not going to do it for you. If you didn't like the example, then tough. Sorry you are not pleased.
> 
> You MUST work for DirecTV simply on the basis, even if I did find one (or many) customer complaints including my own plus the 20 or so friends I know personally that you will deny them all.
> 
> Oh well. You have a nice day, ok?


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

incog-neato said:


> I "must" work for DirecTV? LOL, heaven forbid. We do deal with them on a daily basis but we are not connected with them at all. We are a major supplier (MSO) of DirecTV, private cable & Internet services to contracted multi-dwelling properties across the country. We have no connection with DirecTV other then the fact we install their services & service the properties we contract with. I do have DirecTV service at home just as you do, er, did. (and NO, I don't even get a discount).
> 
> I don't deny any complaints. Every large company has complaints. I personally hear dozens every day from our customers, some legit and many not legit. We have about 70,000 DirecTV customers in around 800 properties. There are THOUSANDS who do not complain (millions if it's ALL DirecTV customers are included). I just noted the specific complaint you chose was invalid.
> 
> ...


I'm not here to patronize. If you don't like my reasoning, well, I'm sorry you feel that way. By the way, I never told you how you should feel. I guess I was right in how this forum acts towards other people.

Go figure.


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