# TiVo Stream for $110



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

Guys,

That slick deals site has info how you can get the TiVo Stream for $110 shipping and no taxes for most. Go there and search under the "hot deals" forum.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Link...
http://slickdeals.net/f/5617062-TiVo-Stream-110-shipped-at-Crutchfield-AC

The Stream is a cool toy if you have an iPad.

Dan


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Mini is what I'm waiting for. I don't have any use for Stream.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

TiVo Stream = no Android support = not interested.


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## jaredmwright (Sep 6, 2004)

Ditto, TiVo stream with no Windows 8 or Windows Phone support => not interested. TiVo needs to focus on all platforms.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Yes, tivo stream without webOS support is a non starter for me.


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## compnurd (Oct 6, 2011)

magnus said:


> Yes, tivo stream without webOS support is a non starter for me.


LOL i thought they stopped development on that


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

compnurd said:


> LOL i thought they stopped development on that


Yep they did but I just had to throw that in there. All this crying. So, I had to lighten things up. I guess everyone thinks that Tivo isn't going to get this done on Android at some point. I really can't imagine that they would not get it done.


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## abqdan (Aug 29, 2012)

I can't imagine watching a movie on my phone - a youtube video yes, but a full-length movie? That needs a 60" screen! Same with a tablet. The stream seems pointless.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

abqdan said:


> I can't imagine watching a movie on my phone - a youtube video yes, but a full-length movie? That needs a 60" screen! Same with a tablet. The stream seems pointless.


Holding a 10" tablet 16" from your face produces an image easily the same size as a 60" screen across a room.


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## iron maiden (May 12, 2012)

The issue with Android is device and OS fragmentation and the user base. A good portion of Android users just want a cheap device and are not the target market for the Stream. The iOS demographic fits the Stream better.

It's all about limited development $ and time. TiVo is going to put their resources where they think they can get the biggest bang for their buck. And that is iOS, especially in the tablet space. Other than a Kindle Fire I can count on one hand the number of Android tablets I've seen in the wild.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

abqdan said:


> I can't imagine watching a movie on my phone - a youtube video yes, but a full-length movie? That needs a 60" screen! Same with a tablet. The stream seems pointless.


It depends on your needs. The Stream has two features... The ability to stream anything from a TiVo to a phone/tablet within the home and the ability to download unprotected content for viewing outside the home.

I personally have uses for both. My wife will not allow me to put a TV in the bed room (to bright and loud and disturbs her sleep) but she's OK with me using my iPad on my night stand. Until the stream was released I either watched podcasts or, more often, I fell asleep on the couch watching my shows. Now I can watch real TV in bed and have not spent one night on the couch, which has been a LOT better for my back. I also travel occasionally. When I do I typically download a bunch of shows to my laptop via TiVoToGo. However the controls in Windows Media Player are clunky and make it hard to skip commercials. The controls in the iPad app are 8 second replay and 30 second skip, the same I'm use to on my real TiVo which makes it a breeze to watch TV on the road.

I also just ordered a new Premiere for my wife (she has a S3 now) so that she can use her iPad to watch TV while she's doing dishes or cooking. Normally she just blares the TV from the other room and listens to it. This way will be better for both of us.

Dan


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

iron maiden said:


> The issue with Android is device and OS fragmentation and the user base. A good portion of Android users just want a cheap device and are not the target market for the Stream. The iOS demographic fits the Stream better.
> 
> It's all about limited development $ and time. TiVo is going to put their resources where they think they can get the biggest bang for their buck. And that is iOS, especially in the tablet space. Other than a Kindle Fire I can count on one hand the number of Android tablets I've seen in the wild.


do they hand out talking points at the fanbois fan club?

Seriously- wanh wanh wanh- do people wine that windows PC's have 4 billion different combinations? No they write code that works with most of 'em and deal with the outliers later. There's plenty of windows apps that require certain monitor sizes and just dont work on things outside the "norm"- that doesn't stop intuit from selling quicken (which, as an example, wouldn't scale to a "netbook" sized screen when those were the 'in' thing a couple years ago)

As you point out many of the people buying $35 colby tablets probably dont own a Tivo anyway. So Tivo could easily write a version optimized for moto, asus, acer, samsung and amazon tablets. Feel free to hide it from others in the market. Hec just publish a version for the Fire family (perhaps the biggest android sellers?) and then add the rest later.

Anyway- it's all irrelevant- the big issue is not that Tivo will prioritize IOS and aim for Android later- few disagree that makes financial sense. The issue most likely is that it's frustrating how slow they get anything done (for android, their website, the actual box UI, box apps, etc). There's android/windows/webos/Palm/etc developers who work by themselves who accomplish more in a weekend than tivo gets done in 10 months with what ever team or subcontractor they use.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

MichaelK said:


> Anyway- it's all irrelevant- the big issue is not that Tivo will prioritize IOS and aim for Android later- few disagree that makes financial sense. The issue most likely is that it's frustrating how slow they get anything done (for android, their website, the actual box UI, box apps, etc). There's android/windows/webos/Palm/etc developers who work by themselves who accomplish more in a weekend than tivo gets done in 10 months with what ever team or subcontractor they use.


+1

The wheels move REMARKABLY slowly at TiVo.

It is extremely unlikely the same programming team writes TiVo iOS apps as TiVo Android apps. It would be extremely unlikely and unwise to not also support at least the major Android devices for the Stream ( Android is 75% of the smart phone market NOW and projected to possibly match tablet share of iOS by mid 2013). The point being, TiVo could have launched BOTH platforms at the same time... unless they are so unsure of the Stream they are holding back due to possible failure and withdraw from the market.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

MichaelK said:


> do they hand out talking points at the fanbois fan club?
> 
> Seriously- wanh wanh wanh- do people wine that windows PC's have 4 billion different combinations? No they write code that works with most of 'em and deal with the outliers later. There's plenty of windows apps that require certain monitor sizes and just dont work on things outside the "norm"- that doesn't stop intuit from selling quicken (which, as an example, wouldn't scale to a "netbook" sized screen when those were the 'in' thing a couple years ago)
> 
> ...


I wonder where all those developers were back when I wanted tivo desktop for the Mac or for all the other software that was PC only. It would seem that Android is in the same boat at this point. It's just not as relevant as iOS at the moment.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

crxssi said:


> +1
> 
> The wheels move REMARKABLY slowly at TiVo.
> 
> It is extremely unlikely the same programming team writes TiVo iOS apps as TiVo Android apps. It would be extremely unlikely and unwise to not also support at least the major Android devices for the Stream ( Android is 75% of the smart phone market NOW and projected to possibly match tablet share of iOS by mid 2013). The point being, TiVo could have launched BOTH platforms at the same time... unless they are so unsure of the Stream they are holding back due to possible failure and withdraw from the market.


There is a whole thread about this in the Stream forum, but basically the data shows that while Android does have a greater percentage of the market iOS users use their devices more and spend more money on apps and accessories. So while Android may technically have more users iOS users are still more likely to buy and expensive peripheral like the Stream.

Dan


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> There is a whole thread about this in the Stream forum, but basically the data shows that while Android does have a greater percentage of the market iOS users use their devices more and spend more money on apps and accessories. So while Android may technically have more users iOS users are still more likely to buy and expensive peripheral like the Stream.
> 
> Dan


the statistics about Andorid people pay less for App's I'm not so sure is relevent- there's just so many more free high quality apps for android- there's very little barrier to entry for android developers but a higher level of effort to "publish" for apple.

BUT I totally agree accessories is a big indicator. But i don't think that's any surprise that your typical apple buyer has more disposable income- was true for apple II's, for macs, and now iphones, ipads, etc.


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

magnus said:


> I wonder where all those developers were back when I wanted tivo desktop for the Mac or for all the other software that was PC only. It would seem that Android is in the same boat at this point. It's just not as relevant as iOS at the moment.


that's actually a great point- Tivo can't handle doing anything more than the ONE frontrunner os at any one point in time.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> There is a whole thread about this in the Stream forum, but basically the data shows that while Android does have a greater percentage of the market iOS users use their devices more and spend more money on apps and accessories. So while Android may technically have more users iOS users are still more likely to buy and expensive peripheral like the Stream.


While I don't disagree with what you are saying, I will clarify that it is not that Android has just a "greater percentage" of the market, but in the smart phone arena, they have a *HUGELY* greater percentage... more than double.... almost triple. So even if just one in three Android phone users has a higher end device (my Evo LTE cost as much as an iphon) and is willing to pay more, that still makes the potential market just as high as the iPhone market. Tablets: a ways to go, still.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

MichaelK said:


> that's actually a great point- Tivo can't handle doing anything more than the ONE frontrunner os at any one point in time.


I think it is nonsense. There are MORE developers for Android at this point. I seriously doubt TiVo is using their own developers for ANY of the mobile software, so their commissioning Android development is no more difficult than commissioning iOS development. A lot of good mobile development houses now do both, anyway.

Let us not forget they already have both phone and tablet Android software... it just needs to be updated, the same as they had to do with the iOS software.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

crxssi said:


> While I don't disagree with what you are saying, I will clarify that it is not that Android has just a "greater percentage" of the market, but in the smart phone arena, they have a *HUGELY* greater percentage... more than double.... almost triple. So even if just one in three Android phone users has a higher end device (my Evo LTE cost as much as an iphon) and is willing to pay more, that still makes the potential market just as high as the iPhone market. Tablets: a ways to go, still.


Well the Stream is a device aimed mainly at tablets. I mean who really wants to watch video on a 4" screen?

Dan


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> Well the Stream is a device aimed mainly at tablets. I mean who really wants to watch video on a 4" screen?
> 
> Dan


Kids


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> Well the Stream is a device aimed mainly at tablets. I mean who really wants to watch video on a 4" screen?


While that is also true (except my phone is 4.7"), the coding to support Android phones and tablets is identical (and a proper design works on both as a single program). So at least it is just one effort.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> Well the Stream is a device aimed mainly at tablets. I mean who really wants to watch video on a 4" screen?


I will even *agree* with your first statement mostly, but I went and got a Stream to use it *for now* on my iPhone while on the treadmill. (Admittedly, the screen size is likely to push me to get an iPad earlier than I otherwise would have, but that's mostly because the size is really small when *moving* on a treadmill.. Sitting still, I could imagine watching more on the iPhone, with it held relatively closely.)


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## NotNowChief (Mar 29, 2012)

I am getting increasingly irritated that they do not have Android support for this. As soon as they do, I will QUICKLY give them my money.

TiVo's development leaves much to be desired in my opinion. Yes, I understand they do not want to release a "half-baked" and untested product. But, the way I see it, they released a "half-baked" product anyway by not supporting the other popular OS - Android. Apple only? Come on guys, that's just stupid. Also, the increasing delays on the Mini are frustrating as well. As far as I'm concerned, they are cutting off their nose to spite their face by alienating their customer base who choose NOT to be "Apple-Weenies".


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

The delays in the Mini are "increasing"? I thought we learned about Q1 2013 a while ago. Is there something else out there on a release date?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

crxssi said:


> Holding a 10" tablet 16" from your face produces an image easily *the same size* as a 60" screen across a room.


...um....no, it doesn't (10 inches DOES NOT equal 60 inches). The image is still WAY smaller than on a 60 inch screen. Apparently you don't understand science/physics....


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Bierboy said:


> ...um....no, it doesn't (10 inches DOES NOT equal 60 inches). The image is still WAY smaller than on a 60 inch screen. Apparently you don't understand science/physics....


Come now, you know what was meant- the same *apparent* size...


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

Bierboy said:


> ...um....no, it doesn't (10 inches DOES NOT equal 60 inches). The image is still WAY smaller than on a 60 inch screen. Apparently you don't understand science/physics....


but my wife told me 6" = 10"!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

It's all a matter of perspective. If you stand far enough from a tree you can cover it with your thumb. Now if your wife can cover "it" with her thumb then she's lying when she says it's a "good size". 

Dan


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I see no reason it doesn't support PCs either. I use Slingbox in the house all the time. Having a stream would be a no brainer since it would allow uninterrupted streaming without affecting what is shown on the TiVo. However, limiting it to iPhones means I have no incentive to ever purchase one.


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

rainwater said:


> I see no reason it doesn't support PCs either.


I think you mean "MS-Windows". "PC" doesn't truly mean anything definitive.

I would want Linux support, then! (Unlikely, since it has no DRM). And they should do MacOS too!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The Stream uses encrypted HLS which, from what I can tell, is a standard supported by most web browsers. So they should, in theory, be able to support streaming on any platform. Although writing the app portion that goes around the Stream is a little more difficult and they'll likely have to weigh the benefits and costs of supporting each platform. Unless they rewrite it in HTML5, then they could release it on practically any platform. Although adaption to various screen resolutions might still be a problem.

Dan


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> The Stream uses encrypted HLS which, from what I can tell, is a standard supported by most web browsers. So they should, in theory, be able to support streaming on any platform. Although writing the app portion that goes around the Stream is a little more difficult and they'll likely have to weigh the benefits and costs of supporting each platform. Unless they rewrite it in HTML5, then they could release it on practically any platform. Although adaption to various screen resolutions might still be a problem.
> 
> Dan


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming

It is not yet a "real" standard. Nor would I describe it as greatly cross-platform or in most browsers (doesn't appear to have Firefox support at all, for example) yet. Looks like it has promise, though.

But what about non-proprietary or non-locked-down OS's? That is a key to me.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The encryption is based on HTTPS so it shouldn't matter if the OS is locked down or not, the connection and the content will still be secure. The iOS app even stores the "downloaded" videos in encrypted HLS format, so the decryption doesn't happen until playback time, which means it should satisfy the "protected path" provision of the Cable Labs requirement regardless of which OS it is deployed on.

Dan


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## flashedbios (Dec 7, 2012)

any reason why tivo had to make a separate piece of hardware to do this streaming and couldnt just roll it up in a software update?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Because the TiVo hardware does not have enough horsepower to do the recoding and iPads, and most other mobile devices, do not support the MPEG-2 format that most channels are broadcast in.

One of the higher ups at TiVo mentioned that this transcoding capability will likely be built in to a future TiVo platform. The separate box is just a way to make it available to current in spite of the aforementioned limitations. 

Dan


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## flashedbios (Dec 7, 2012)

wow! mpeg-2 is the most standard video format out there! im surprised that the ipad and iphone don't natively support those codecs.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

flashedbios said:


> wow! mpeg-2 is the most standard video format out there! im surprised that the ipad and iphone don't natively support those codecs.


It's not really an issue for mobile devices since there are hardly any streaming services that stream mpeg-2 since it is so large most people would have bandwidth issues streaming it over the internet. I would imagine that type of data would kill the battery in almost any mobile device even if they had the hardware support.


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## igirl (Feb 5, 2011)

mrsean said:


> Guys,
> 
> That slick deals site has info how you can get the TiVo Stream for $110 shipping and no taxes for most. Go there and search under the "hot deals" forum.


We paid full price but were the first on our block to get one!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

flashedbios said:


> wow! mpeg-2 is the most standard video format out there! im surprised that the ipad and iphone don't natively support those codecs.


Mobile devices are typically limited in both disk space and bandwidth to download videos, either via USB or network. MPEG-4/H.264 was mainly chosen for space/bandwidth reasons then compatibility.



rainwater said:


> I would imagine that type of data would kill the battery in almost any mobile device even if they had the hardware support.


Actually MPEG-2 requires less processing power to decode then H.264 so if a device had specific hardware to decode MPEG-2 it would likely have better battery life then decoding H.264. However most devices don't have hardware MPEG-2 decoders so they use CPU based decoders when they do support MPEG-2 and CPU decoders will eat up the battery a lot faster then a hardware decoder.

Dan


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## kcossabo (Dec 8, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Link...
> 
> The Stream is a cool toy if you have an iPad.
> 
> Dan


Has anyone tried one? My iPad locks up and reboots my Premier, so I assume the same buggy code is on the streamer?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I have one and use it every day. It has never locked up my iPad or caused my Premiere to reboot.

Dan


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## MichaelK (Jan 10, 2002)

flashedbios said:


> wow! mpeg-2 is the most standard video format out there! im surprised that the ipad and iphone don't natively support those codecs.


for a time MS windows didn't either- you had to buy a separate software package to get a license. It's something of a cost issue if i recall as the people that own the patents for MPEG2 ask for a few bucks a device royalty. MS at the time argued that it was silly to pay for MPEG2 on every windows machine when only some users would ever use it. Apple would probably say the same thing while doing their best to bash MPEG2 and say there are "better" options out there.

Along the same lines I don't believe that android OS devices natively play mpeg2 either- same cost issue- but more complex- a free open source OS can't include the required licenses since no one is paying for the OS- so it can't even be included. The device manufacturer might add it but the OS doesn't include it.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-2



> MPEG Licensing Authority, a private patent licensing organization, has acquired rights from over 20 corporations and one university to license a patent pool of approximately 640 worldwide patents, which it claims are the "essential" to use of MPEG-2 technology, although many of the patents have since expired.[33][34] Where software patentability is upheld, the use of MPEG-2 requires the payment of licensing fees to the patent holders. Other patents are licensed by Audio MPEG, Inc.[35] The development of the standard itself took less time than the patent negotiations.[36][37] Patent pooling between essential and peripheral patent holders in the MPEG-2 pool is the subject of a study by the University of Wisconsin.[38] Over half of the patents expire in 2012.[39]
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


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## crxssi (Apr 5, 2010)

MichaelK said:


> Along the same lines I don't believe that android OS devices natively play mpeg2 either- same cost issue-


The primary reasons most portable electronics don't include MPEG2 support:

* MPEG2 is just not used much outside of broadcast TV.
* MPEG2 streams are more than twice the size of "modern" codecs, requiring twice the storage space and twice the bandwidth.
* Licensing costs for something with low demand.
* No hardware support (which is needed in the GPU/chipset to play video without taxing the CPU and battery)


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## pesto126 (Dec 15, 2007)

Curious about this.. would you be able to:
a) use the stream to send a program to your ipad and then....
b) use the ipad and Apple TV to stream that show to a TV?

If so, then all you would need would be a stream and an Apple TV to create a remote viewing experience on the big screen... will that work?

Thx!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

There is a way to use AirPlay if you have a jail broken iPad. However without the jail break AirPlay is disable as is HMDI/component output. 

Dan


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