# Cox Phoenix Channel Loss (Multiple times a day since cablecard firmware upgrade)



## BrianAZ

Since the Cox CableCard thread has grown to 53 pages, ~1565 posts and covers everything under the sun Cox-related, I thought I'd start a specific thread for the *significant* issue being experienced by (what appears to be) the entire Cox-Phoenix/Tucson TivoHD user base.

While this would be a significant issue at any time, for anyone, it is especially critical given the frequency with which recordings are lost (I lost 7 recordings yesterday alone) and with the Olympics just around the corner.

My hope is to use this thread to focus on this specific problem and provide a location for us to discuss without being obscured by other topics (i.e. SDV rollout). I also am hopeful that Tivo's reps will provide us periodic updates on the situation as well.

*Description of issue:*

*History​*Prior to the most recent CableCard firmware upgrade, our cablecards/Tivos had two issues related to this problem:

Periodic (~ once a week) loss of encrypted channels (HD locals revert to SD). The Tivo software recognizes this and reset the cards so future recordings are not impacted.
Periodic (~ once a month) situation where the channel loss problem was not resolved automatically by the Tivo or by restarting. I'll refer to this as the SubExpireTime issue.
*Current*

Since the CableCard firmware upgrade to 301, the SubExpireTime issue appears to be resolved (excellent! no more truck rolls or badgering CS to get a supervisor to unpair, repair, refresh to fix). However, the loss of channels problem was not resolved. In fact, it is now exponentially worse.

What used to happen once a week, now happens numerous times a day (maybe 4-7). Because of this, it is being felt by a far wider userbase. If you're not watching Tivo when the issue happens but were recording, you'll notice that you have partial recordings of varying lengths. If you are watching, you'll see a "161-38" error message pop up on the screen. This is the Tivo workaround resetting the CableCard. After a few moments you'll have your channels back but your recordings are stopped.​
*Latest update from Tivo on the issue (as of week of 7/7):*

I (and several others) have reported the issue to Tivo and Cox. TivoJerry has confirmed the issue and that Tivo has advised Cox and Cisco. He also mentioned that he has hope that prior work between the three companies on a similar problem in Las Vegas will expidite the diagnosis and remediation here in Phoenix. He also notes that everyone at Tivo is committed to helping figure this out.

*Latest update from Tivo on the issue (as of week of 8/11):*
Tivo, Cox and Cisco are all apparently in Phoenix working on the issue. There are various tests underway and we have been advised that the appropriate level of attention is being paid to this issue. In recent days, some folks have indicated that they are losing *less* recordings, but the problem is still happening frequently (usually a few times per day). The Olympics are now upon us and we're missing them.

*Latest update - 8/27*
A firmware fix has been deployed and appears to be working as intended. Thanks to everyone on this thread for making your voices heard and finally forcing Tivo, Cox & Cisco to treat this with the urgency required.:up::up::up:

- Brian


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## AZrob

THANK YOU for starting this thread, Brian. The issue deserves a higher profile than being buried in the Cox thread.

Two observations:


The original problem was associated with M-cards. Since S3 units, AFAIK, still cannot use M-cards, they are probably not affected by the current snafu. But if there are any S3 users out there who are being affected by the 161-38 partial recording problem, please speak up.

The original problem was also associated only with the encrypted channels. Non-encrypted channels (2-21 and 701-715) were not being dropped. AFAIK, this is still the case, but again if anybody knows something to the contrary, please chime in.
Rob


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## BrianAZ

AZrob said:


> THANK YOU for starting this thread, Brian. The issue deserves a higher profile than being buried in the Cox thread.
> 
> Two observations:
> 
> 
> The original problem was associated with M-cards. Since S3 units, AFAIK, still cannot use M-cards, they are probably not affected by the current snafu. But if there are any S3 users out there who are being affected by the 161-38 partial recording problem, please speak up.
> 
> The original problem was also associated only with the encrypted channels. Non-encrypted channels (2-21 and 701-715) were not being dropped. AFAIK, this is still the case, but again if anybody knows something to the contrary, please chime in.
> Rob


Excellent points Rob (though I think S3 can use two MCards?).

One addition to your second item about which channels are impacted: While the local HD stations are not dropped/lost, they revert back to SD content during the issue. I've not experienced this problem while recording one of these channels, so I'm not sure what happens to the recordings. Are they broken or does it continue recording SD and then switches back to HD when the card has reset?


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## jkovach

I live in Gilbert (San Tan Ranch, Pecos & Higley), and was experiencing the same problem. From July 1-10 or so, the Tivo HD was virtually unusuable. Couldn't go more than 10 minutes without losing channels.

Due to my work schedule, I didn't bother reporting the problem. Wouldn't have been able to be home to let a tech check things out. Since I heard the problem was widespread, I let it ride. I did give my TSN to TivoJerry though.

It's now been 5 or 6 days since I've had any trouble.

Jeff


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## djwilso

AZrob said:


> The original problem was associated with M-cards. Since S3 units, AFAIK, still cannot use M-cards, they are probably not affected by the current snafu. But if there are any S3 users out there who are being affected by the 161-38 partial recording problem, please speak up.
> 
> The original problem was also associated only with the encrypted channels. Non-encrypted channels (2-21 and 701-715) were not being dropped. AFAIK, this is still the case, but again if anybody knows something to the contrary, please chime in.
> Rob


I have an S3 and am using two S-cards. Starting July 1 2008, I was experiencing very long channel change times where the picture would go black for up to a minute and then finally come in. The problem seemed much worse for encrypted channels but was present for all channels.

I did not experience the firmware upgrade loop issue since I don't have M-cards, although I believe that the S3 can use two M-cards.

During this time, I did not experience dropped recordings (thankfully).

This lasted for several days and has since completely cleared up, which I'm very grateful for.

- Dennis


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## BrianAZ

jkovach said:


> I live in Gilbert (San Tan Ranch, Pecos & Higley), and was experiencing the same problem. From July 1-10 or so, the Tivo HD was virtually unusuable. Couldn't go more than 10 minutes without losing channels.
> 
> Due to my work schedule, I didn't bother reporting the problem. Wouldn't have been able to be home to let a tech check things out. Since I heard the problem was widespread, I let it ride. I did give my TSN to TivoJerry though.
> 
> It's now been 5 or 6 days since I've had any trouble.
> 
> Jeff


I've found that whether you feel impact or not really just depends on what you have scheduled to record on a given day and it's really a roll of the dice if the issue will happen during those timeslots (or while you happen to be watching but not recording). I have a wishlist which basically records all HD Documentarys, so my Tivo is recording frequently. May result in my seeing it more often.


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## Rolow

BrianAZ yesterday was bad for me to I lost 3-4 recordings. Today I haven't had any problems yet.
Does any one know if 9.4 will help us out? I don't think it will but you never know.

Also the current problem will tune both tuners to the same channel. So if you have not been using your tivo and you had nothing scheduled to record you can tell if there was a error while you where gone by checking to see if both tuners are on the same channel.


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## JayBird

I can personally vouch that recordings on channels 705 and 715 have been getting interrupted since the firmware upgrade. My wife has complained several times that her soaps on 705 have been partial recordings. And we missed Wipeout on 715 last week due to a partial recording. And the 161-38 cablecard errors are a multiple time per day occurence.

So these channels are NOT immune from the problem.

Also, got 9.4 last night, and we are still getting cablecard errors today, so it didn't address the problem.


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## BrianAZ

This will require a cisco cablecard firmware update unless tivo has some magic up their sleeve i'm not aware of.


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## nightdesigns

I too had the problems from about the 1st through the 10th. Since then I haven't had issues, but I was told that they rolled back the SDV roll-out due to the issues (Also go the letter from cox saying that they were delaying the launch of new HD channels). 

I do worry though that at some point they'll have to roll out SDV once again and the issues may come back.


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## BrianAZ

nightdesigns said:


> I too had the problems from about the 1st through the 10th. Since then I haven't had issues, but I was told that they rolled back the SDV roll-out due to the issues (Also go the letter from cox saying that they were delaying the launch of new HD channels).
> 
> I do worry though that at some point they'll have to roll out SDV once again and the issues may come back.


I don't believe SDV is related. The v301 firmware update (which was done in an attempt to fix an existing issue, not support SDV) hit my Tivo 3 days before July 1 and the problems began immediately. Unfortunately it's likely just coincidence that you've not encountered the issue recently.


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## Darlbach

I've had the firmware upgrade loop problem, lost channels and dropped recordings since the first of the month - thankfully I was on vacation for the 1st week so I didn't notice it.......until I returned home and half my scheduled recordings never showed up.

My frustration is with Cox Technical Support(?) Calls to the support desk are met with either non-responsiveness or a total lack of any understanding as to what a cablecard even is. Wouldn't it be nice if they just sent out a notice to all their telephone techs that said, "Hey, we really don't know what the problem is, but there IS a problem, sit tight 'cause we're working on it."? I wonder how many TIVO HD users out there don't check forums like these to find out that they are not alone. 

Sad truth is, what is Cox's incentive to find a solution to the problem? Eventually TIVO users will get so frustrated with the issue that they'll turn back to the inferior interface and overall quality of those stupid Scientific Atlanta units.

We're all Charlie Browns and Cox is the Lucy pulling the football just as we're ready to kick........AAAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH!


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## nightdesigns

BrianAZ said:


> I don't believe SDV is related. The v301 firmware update (which was done in an attempt to fix an existing issue, not support SDV) hit my Tivo 3 days before July 1 and the problems began immediately. Unfortunately it's likely just coincidence that you've not encountered the issue recently.


The firmware update was done in anticipation of the SDV release. The cablecards needed to be updated to work properly with SDV.


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## nicemann

Darlbach said:


> Sad truth is, what is Cox's incentive to find a solution to the problem? Eventually TIVO users will get so frustrated with the issue that they'll turn back to the inferior interface and overall quality of those stupid Scientific Atlanta units.


Well can't speak for anyone but myself, but their tech support has ticked me off so much, I have DirecTV coming out on Saturday to install two HD DVRs. I know it won't be my TiVo HD....but at least it will hopefully record what I tell it to do. Also will get many more HD channels and won't have to worry about SDV. Sucks because I have been using TiVo boxes for the last 11 years.


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## jkovach

BrianAZ said:


> I've found that whether you feel impact or not really just depends on what you have scheduled to record on a given day and it's really a roll of the dice if the issue will happen during those timeslots (or while you happen to be watching but not recording). I have a wishlist which basically records all HD Documentarys, so my Tivo is recording frequently. May result in my seeing it more often.


Trust me, if the problem was still occuring where I live, I would know. I have many wishlists and record lots of content. For me, the problem has been resolved.

Jeff


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## BrianAZ

jkovach said:


> Trust me, if the problem was still occuring where I live, I would know. I have many wishlists and record lots of content. For me, the problem has been resolved.
> 
> Jeff


I wonder if it has something to do with how the cablecards are programmed to work with various pieces of Cable Co. equipment. Possibly your area's setup is different in some way than others.


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## YazooWho

All,

I can tell you this.. Tivo is working actively with both SA and Cox to get this mess resolved asap.

The cc upgrade that was rolled out was to fix the missing channels issue. It was in development long before the sdv rollout. The missing channels was partialy solved but other issues had surfaced.

The partials recordings are likely from the Tivo rebooting the cc internally. When this problem first came about, the only way to reboot the cc was the actually restart the Tivo unit. They have since fixed it, that if a cc error is detected, the cc will reboot intenally without a restart of the Tivo. This a temporary fix until the actual cc issue has been fixed.

Hope this clears some things up.


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## yroca

Add me to the list. Have been seeing various 161-xx errors. Some days are definitely worse than others. Has been better lately, but still have 2 partial recordings from the last week.


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## craigo

I'll go ahead and chime in.

I live in Mesa and have a S3 with 2 S-cards. I have absolutely no issues other than an audio/video skip once I tune into a channel. Not really a big problem for me. I think this has more to do with the HDMI connection. I used to have 2 M-cards and would lose channels just like everybody else.

My father lives in Scottsdale and has a TivoHD with 2 S-cards. From July 1st - 7th, most of his channels would freeze. No losing channels, but would just take about 2 minutes to load. Cox (3rd party) came out and really didn't do anything except increase his signal. The tech only had M-cards with him and advised him not to switch. Last week he called back and a Cox (actual employee) came out and changed out his cards, again with 2 S-cards. Yes, they are now in stock again (at least with technicians employed by Cox). He is having no issues.

Given this, I absolutely believe that it is a M-Card issue. Probably wouldn't hurt to swap your cards out with S-cards until this issue is over. YMMV


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## carl67lp

Thought I'd jump in here with a question. With the flurry of difficulties I've been seeing, is it wise to even purchase a TiVo HD right now? I was considering taking advantage of their refurbished models (and my wife seems to be excited to do so), but if we can't use them properly then I don't want to pull the trigger.

Should I wait, and hope the refurbs remain in stock? Or is the problem not as severe as most seem to make it out to be?

I'm also concerned about the SDV issue (although perhaps that's best left to its own thread). When SDV rolls out, will the TiVo HD be completely unusable until the Tuner Adapter arrives?


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## jebbbz

carl67lp said:


> ...
> 
> Should I wait, and hope the refurbs remain in stock? Or is the problem not as severe as most seem to make it out to be?
> 
> I'm also concerned about the SDV issue (although perhaps that's best left to its own thread). When SDV rolls out, will the TiVo HD be completely unusable until the Tuner Adapter arrives?


Last question first: Cox has announced the list of initial channels they are moving to SDV and for me there were no important ones I won't receive without the tuning adapter. Here is the list posted in the Cox Cable Card forum:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6480256#post6480256

The most popular channels are the least likely to go SDV since if someone on your cable node (i.e., in your neighborhood) is almost always watching a particular channel there is no advantage to moving that channel to SDV. It is the less popular channels that are most suited to SDV.

As for the current state of problems you will be taking a chance right now. My problems are rather worse than they were before the cable card firmware upgrade that seems to blame but my TiVo is still very much usable. I am blessed with good digital OTA and have a PC with a couple of digital TV tuners so I set backup recordings for my most important shows but I think I have only needed to use a backup once since July 1. Others have had much more serious problems, though. People who post here are probably not a representative sample of TiVo users in the Phoenix metro area and of this unusual sample those with problems are most likely to post.

If the refurbs are a good deal I'd go for it, based on my experience, but I imagine there will be refurbs available on and off from now on as was the case with S2 TiVos.


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## jenp

Hi All,

I have loved the standard def box I have had for years. Last week I activated my TIVO HD DVR and have been so disappointed! I have had numerous partial recordings on both HD local channels (710 and 715). Recording only a minute, on a few shows, and partial recordinges of longer duration (40 minutes of a 2 hour movie) on lower digital channels such as 138

I called Tivo twice and spent hours on the phone with level one support to no avail. I finally reached a level 2 guy named Aaron, who is supposed to get back to me when he hears from "engineering". He gave a big sigh when I mentioned I was a Cox customer in Phoenix . 

I am still in my 30 day "trial" period and am actually considering returning the unit. I love Tivo's usiblity, but it's worthless if it doesn't record. It's unfortunate, because at this time I agree with most of you, the problem lays with Cox and Scientic Atlantic (Cisco), and their cable cards. There were however, problems with Cox's set top HDDVR boxes too.

Anyone have any thoughts on how much faith to place on these three large corporate organizations (Cox, Cisco, Tivo) ability to collaborate and actually fix these issues?


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## bowlingblogger

I hope no one minds me posting this here in a Phoenix thread, but I am in Tucson with a TivoHD on Cox digital with an M-card and am having the multiple channel-loss problem as well (since January of this year), as well as the partial-recording and 161-38 errors since the firmware update. The Tucson market must have the same technical setup as Phoenix. I called Tivo last week out of frustration and they claimed to be working on a software update that would address this problem, to be rolled between mid to late August. I'm not sure if this is the 9.4 update that is currently being tested or not.


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## BrianAZ

jenp said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on how much faith to place on these three large corporate organizations (Cox, Cisco, Tivo) ability to collaborate and actually fix these issues?


Well.. on the plus side, they did work together to fix a similar issue (which ended up making the channel loss/partial recording issue more frequent). The prior issue was that roughly once a month, you'd lose your channels and they wouldn't come back. You'd call Cox and have to basically demand a supervisor who actually understood what to do to get it fixed (1st level techs always claimed they couldn't do anything and tried to schedule a truck visit).

It took several months to get the other issue fixed, but hopefully since they have worked together and have ample examples of the issue (since it's happening multiple times a day) it won't take forever this time around. I know for a fact that Tivo, Cisco and Cox are all aware of the issue (TivoJerry confirmed this) and are working on it. I'm hopeful that he or another rep will provide us an update on the progress once there's something to report.


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## BrianAZ

bowlingblogger said:


> I hope no one minds me posting this here in a Phoenix thread, but I am in Tucson with a TivoHD on Cox digital with an M-card and am having the multiple channel-loss problem as well (since January of this year), as well as the partial-recording and 161-38 errors since the firmware update. The Tucson market must have the same technical setup as Phoenix. I called Tivo last week out of frustration and they claimed to be working on a software update that would address this problem, to be rolled between mid to late August. I'm not sure if this is the 9.4 update that is currently being tested or not.


9.4 won't fix it. This is a CableCard firmware issue and will require a Cisco/Cox update. Perhaps that's what the Tivo rep was referring to (I hope!).

Good bit of info that it's happening in Tucson as well. I've added it to the initial post. Thanks!


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## bowlingblogger

BrianAZ said:


> 9.4 won't fix it. This is a CableCard firmware issue and will require a Cisco/Cox update. Perhaps that's what the Tivo rep was referring to (I hope!).
> 
> Good bit of info that it's happening in Tucson as well. I've added it to the initial post. Thanks!


It's only from reading the Cox cable card thread over the last few months that I haven't thrown my Tivo out the window--it's good to know you're not alone even if there's not much you can do about it. I guess the Tivo representative knowingly misinformed me or didn't know what he was talking about. A CC firmware upgrade posthaste would be nice, though I would even settle for rolling back to the previous firmware!


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## ksalwitz

jkovach said:


> Trust me, if the problem was still occuring where I live, I would know. I have many wishlists and record lots of content. For me, the problem has been resolved.
> 
> Jeff


 I'm in Gilbert as well. I had Cox out to replace the M-card in my HD box 3 times. The 3rd time it lasted about 6 hours before it blew out and lost all of the 
diagnostic programs on the card each time and couldn't see any info on the card. Is this something that anyone else has experienced? Also I've contacted Tivo (see previous post #1493) to return the HD tivo and get a refund on my LIFETIME service agreement. Still waiting for a response on this issue. When I called today the rep said it was still in progress and she would up the priority. Woo woo!!! Like that's going to help. I called the 8th and 11 days later, nothing. Although my wife and I both love Tivo (cox dvr really is pathetic) and I have 3, I'm becoming more and more convinced that SA has no vested interest in making their cable cards work with the competition (tivo) hardware.


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## jkovach

ksalwitz said:


> I'm in Gilbert as well. I had Cox out to replace the M-card in my HD box 3 times. The 3rd time it lasted about 6 hours before it blew out and lost all of the
> diagnostic programs on the card each time and couldn't see any info on the card. Is this something that anyone else has experienced?


Yes. When I was suffering through the lose of channels problem at the beginning of the month, the cablecard menus would not bring up anything. A reboot would restore them, but only temporarily. I don't think it's a matter of the diagnostic menus getting wiped - I think it's a matter of the cablecard becoming unresponsive.

Jeff


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## Rolow

UG this sucks


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## jkovach

I spoke too soon. Since last Fri, my Tivo HD is again experiencing channel loss and partial recordings a couple of times per day.

Jeff


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## marca320

I am not sure if this will be the correct thread but I am in Chandler and have several Tivos. My series 3 with cablecards skips ahead on the video and then the audio fast fowards and catches up. I tried recording on a series 2 and that went well. It is regular channels. Any ideas? Thanks.


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## carl67lp

jebbbz said:


> Last question first: Cox has announced the list of initial channels they are moving to SDV and for me there were no important ones I won't receive without the tuning adapter. Here is the list posted in the Cox Cable Card forum:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6480256#post6480256
> 
> The most popular channels are the least likely to go SDV since if someone on your cable node (i.e., in your neighborhood) is almost always watching a particular channel there is no advantage to moving that channel to SDV. It is the less popular channels that are most suited to SDV.
> 
> As for the current state of problems you will be taking a chance right now. My problems are rather worse than they were before the cable card firmware upgrade that seems to blame but my TiVo is still very much usable. I am blessed with good digital OTA and have a PC with a couple of digital TV tuners so I set backup recordings for my most important shows but I think I have only needed to use a backup once since July 1. Others have had much more serious problems, though. People who post here are probably not a representative sample of TiVo users in the Phoenix metro area and of this unusual sample those with problems are most likely to post.
> 
> If the refurbs are a good deal I'd go for it, based on my experience, but I imagine there will be refurbs available on and off from now on as was the case with S2 TiVos.


Thanks for the info. I suspect my wife and I will hold off on getting a TiVo HD until they work out these glitches. Our Cox DVR already does a good job of not recording certain programs as it is!


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## saibari

AZrob said:


> THANK YOU for starting this thread, Brian. The issue deserves a higher profile than being buried in the Cox thread.
> 
> Two observations:
> 
> 
> The original problem was associated with M-cards. Since S3 units, AFAIK, still cannot use M-cards, they are probably not affected by the current snafu. But if there are any S3 users out there who are being affected by the 161-38 partial recording problem, please speak up.
> 
> The original problem was also associated only with the encrypted channels. Non-encrypted channels (2-21 and 701-715) were not being dropped. AFAIK, this is still the case, but again if anybody knows something to the contrary, please chime in.
> Rob


Yes, thanks very much Brian for starting this thread! As for the first item on your list, I believe I did read where some were having the same issues with S-cards. I recall making a mental note of that because I was considering trying to switch to S-cards though I'm afraid to because when I was using 2 S-cards last fall I had awful audio/video synch problems. ... But then again, this is even worse!

As for the second item, Yes the HD channels are also affected. In fact, right now I'm missing a whole bunch of channels including 712, 710, 705 etc. I'm also missing their non-HD counter parts (12, 15, 5, 10) and some of the channels that I _am_ receiving (e.g. 24 Lifetime) are severely pixelated. This is the worst the problem has _ever_ been! 

I am SO angry and frustrated right now!  I just got home from a week out of town and more than half of my recordings are either partial or not recorded at all because there was no signal. AND, as a fail-safe I had scheduled my soap to record on my series 2 (connected to a digital cable box) TiVo. Well, the *&%! cable box turned itself off so I got NO recordings there! Aaaargh!  ... The Cox folks tell me that this happens occassionally because the box is supposed to be turned off every night when you turn off your TV. Weeell, if the box is off, I get no reception on my TiVo so I can't record anything. So that's why I never turn it off. Oy!

<SIGH> So Cox is coming out tomorrow. I asked them to bring both an M-Card and two S-cards. I think I'll give the S-cards a try. I've also scheduled them to come out on Sunday and install a Cox HD-DVR... in case the S-cards don't solve the problem!  Frankly, I don't know why I'm giving the TiVo another chance except that I _really_ am not looking forward to using a Cox DVR ...


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## saibari

marca320 said:


> I am not sure if this will be the correct thread but I am in Chandler and have several Tivos. My series 3 with cablecards skips ahead on the video and then the audio fast fowards and catches up. I tried recording on a series 2 and that went well. It is regular channels. Any ideas? Thanks.


Aaaack! Yes, I know what that is! It's the dreaded audio/video synch problems that I had with my TiVo-HD when I was using 2 S-cards last fall! <groan> I _just now_ posted a response in which I said I would give the S-cards a try in the hopes that it would solve my dropped channels/partial recordings problem. I was kind of hoping that they had solved whatever was causing the A/V synch problems, but I guess not! aaaaaaaaaaargh! Now I don't know whether or not I should give the 2 s-cards a try. 

Anyway, you might try switching to an M-card to solve the a/v synch problem BUT then you might end up with the aggravation the rest of us are dealing with.... I'm sorry to say that switching to an M-card was the only thing that fixed my a/v synch problems...


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## saibari

carl67lp said:


> Thought I'd jump in here with a question. With the flurry of difficulties I've been seeing, is it wise to even purchase a TiVo HD right now? I was considering taking advantage of their refurbished models (and my wife seems to be excited to do so), but if we can't use them properly then I don't want to pull the trigger.
> 
> Should I wait, and hope the refurbs remain in stock? Or is the problem not as severe as most seem to make it out to be?
> 
> I'm also concerned about the SDV issue (although perhaps that's best left to its own thread). When SDV rolls out, will the TiVo HD be completely unusable until the Tuner Adapter arrives?


I'd say definitely DO NOT buy a Tivo-HD now! This dropped channels/partial recordings problem is truly maddening. It's like a crapshoot--you never know when you'll get a full recording...or any recording at all!


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## saibari

jebbbz said:


> Last question first: Cox has announced the list of initial channels they are moving to SDV and for me there were no important ones I won't receive without the tuning adapter. Here is the list posted in the Cox Cable Card forum:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6480256#post6480256...As for the current state of problems you will be taking a chance right now. My problems are rather worse than they were before the cable card firmware upgrade that seems to blame but my TiVo is still very much usable. I am blessed with good digital OTA and have a PC with a couple of digital TV tuners so I set backup recordings for my most important shows but I think I have only needed to use a backup once since July 1. Others have had much more serious problems, though. People who post here are probably not a representative sample of TiVo users in the Phoenix metro area and of this unusual sample those with problems are most likely to post. ...


Well JEBBZ, you are truly one of the lucky ones. I'd say that given the number of posts here with people experiencing the same problems it's safe to say that this is a widespread issue. I surely wouldn't chance buying a TiVo now. The only reason I'm sticking with it is because I've already bought the TiVo and a one-year subscription... and TiVo is the only DVR I've ever used (been using a series 2 for several years), so I'm loathe to try something else given that I've heard less than stellar things about the other options. But hey, if they reliably work then that cinches the deal right there!


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## saibari

jenp said:


> ...I am still in my 30 day "trial" period and am actually considering returning the unit. I love Tivo's usiblity, *but it's worthless if it doesn't record. * It's unfortunate, because at this time I agree with most of you, the problem lays with Cox and Scientic Atlantic (Cisco), and their cable cards. There were however, problems with Cox's set top HDDVR boxes too.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts on how much faith to place on these three large corporate organizations (Cox, Cisco, Tivo) ability to collaborate and actually fix these issues?


You hit the nail on the head there--it IS worthless if you can't reliably record programs. I'd say if you're still in the 30-day trial period you should return it. HOWEVER, I've never tried anything else. So I don't know what problems I might encounter with a Cox HD-DVR--not to mention the fact that I hate to reward them for such lousy service!

And right now, I have NO faith in those corporations!


----------



## BrianAZ

Just got word that Tivo and Cox are having regular status/working calls on this (as recent as today) and are taking numerous steps to find the issue. I know you all are as frustrated as I am and wanted to pass that on so you at least know it's being looked at. No idea what will come of it of course. Will let you know what I hear.


----------



## Rolow

That's great to hear. 

Lets hope they tell the CSR's. There is nothing worse then to be on hold just to be told "there's no problem that where aware of" or something of the sort. That response makes me want to cancel my service. Because I start to think there incompetent. As a customer I would much rather hear "Where aware of the problem and are working on it now" That would make me feel better and much less likely to cancel my service.


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## jonginear

So it's been two days now and no new posts..........I guess they fixed the problem?

Way to go Cox!


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## Rolow

I wish! All my posts lately on this forum are negative and am looking forward to posting something positive.


----------



## saibari

Cox tech came out yesterday and replaced my M-card. He said he's seen the problem with equal frequency amongst those with 2 S-cards so I stuck with the M-card. He also said he's kept very busy servicing TiVo's all over the Valley--so rest assured, the problems are wide-spread. 

So far I've not had problems--a whole 24 hrs. I've no confidence this will last though. ...


----------



## BrianAZ

saibari said:


> Cox tech came out yesterday and replaced my M-card. He said he's seen the problem with equal frequency amongst those with 2 S-cards so I stuck with the M-card. He also said he's kept very busy servicing TiVo's all over the Valley--so rest assured, the problems are wide-spread.
> 
> So far I've not had problems--a whole 24 hrs. I've no confidence this will last though. ...


Ya... I seriously doubt your individual cablecard has anything to do with the issue.


----------



## saibari

BrianAZ said:


> Ya... I seriously doubt your individual cablecard has anything to do with the issue.


No, but I'm hoping the new one will last longer. The tech said that the cablecards get fried from whatever the problem is that they're having. He said something about the signal not being strong enough but they can't send a stronger signal because then you get tiling. He also said that things like channel changes can screw up the TiVo--like when lifetime (or maybe it was a different channel) recently went digital... Don't know if any of that makes sense!

But sadly, if I don't go more than a couple of weeks trouble-free I'm going to have to go for the Cox HD-DVR...


----------



## craigo

Why not try the S-cards? As I've posted in other threads, I am not having any common problems that the M-cards are experiencing. There can't be anything worse than having partial recordings and channel lost issues. Are the S-cards perfect? No, but I've experiences much lesser issues(that are important too me) than the M-cards. IMHO, you have nothing to lose.


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## Shawn95GT

I too am having nearly no issues with S-Cards, but i think Cox only has M-Cards to give any more.


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## jebbbz

My update: Channel loss has hit me only a couple of times a week for the last two weeks. Thursday night was the last time I noticed it. This thread technically only covers such channel loss but I thought I would pass on something else. At the time the firmware upgrade took place many people noted that their TiVos were stuck in an upgrade loop. For me, there were certain problem channels (TCM on 199, for example). Tuning to them would trigger a false upgrade cycle that would repeat until I could tune away from the problem channel just as the "upgrade" finished. I checked just now and my upgrade loop problem seems fixed. Cisco/SA have not sent me any new firmware (I have the 0301) nor have I received the 9.4 update from TiVo. I guess that leaves Cox as having changed something in their local system that fixed the problem. Given the coincidence of the upgrade loop problem and the channel loss problem I have some hope that the latter problem will soon be history, too.


----------



## Dbax5

How much longer are you people going to take this bull!?? Tivo knows of the problems with Cox Cable Cards yet continue to sell the units to Phoenix area residents. DO NOT BUY A TIVO HD UNTIL THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED! Cox does not care that it does not work. 
As I've mentioned before, I am out $300 + for this piece of crap. But my Cox DVR is working just fine. No bells and whistles, but piece of mind that I can record and not lose any channels. And I get On Demand. Tell Tivo you are fed up and not going to take it any more!!


----------



## Shawn95GT

Dbax5 said:


> How much longer are you people going to take this bull!?? Tivo knows of the problems with Cox Cable Cards yet continue to sell the units to Phoenix area residents. DO NOT BUY A TIVO HD UNTIL THE ISSUE IS RESOLVED! Cox does not care that it does not work.
> As I've mentioned before, I am out $300 + for this piece of crap. But my Cox DVR is working just fine. No bells and whistles, but piece of mind that I can record and not lose any channels. And I get On Demand. Tell Tivo you are fed up and not going to take it any more!!


Ok, calm down. You'd have a point if they didn't work anywhere. They do work outside of Cox / M-Card.

If you 'don't want to take it anymore', cancel Cox if they aren't capable of making it work.

I only have Cox because Qwest's VDSL isn't a 'cable' system and doesn't do Cablecard. I switched to Cox when I bought my S3 for the HD cable channels. If they couldn't make it happen for me they'd be out the door.

That's the one especially good thing with Cox - no commitment.


----------



## desertdog

I'm in west Chandler, near Ray & Kyrene, and also having the exact same problems, both with 2 S cards as well as 1 M card. Channels freeze up, or else I get the error 161-38, but in either case, the Tivo stops recording. Cox has been out innumerable times but of course can't fix it. I don't have much to contribute at this time, since I don't have a magic workaround, but can only add to the number of hugely frustrated customers. 

I do have a question, though. Does anyone have any idea how much recording capacity the Cox DVRs have? Although I have 4 Tivos on my account, I sadly, must consider switching the HD one to Cox. Also, does anyone know what would happen to my lifetime subscription if I turned off my HD Tivo?


----------



## saibari

craigo said:


> Why not try the S-cards? As I've posted in other threads, I am not having any common problems that the M-cards are experiencing. There can't be anything worse than having partial recordings and channel lost issues. Are the S-cards perfect? No, but I've experiences much lesser issues(that are important too me) than the M-cards. IMHO, you have nothing to lose.


Well, I'm very hesitant to go back to S-cards because the reason I switched to an M-card to begin with is because I was having _severe_ audio/video synch problems with the S-cards, such that some shows were unwatchable. I considered the occasional dropped channels on the M-card an annoyance, but a far lesser evil than the a/v synch problem.

However, with the latest severe channel-drop/partial recording problems I've been experiencing, I was thinking about risking the switch cuz I figured by now they had the a/v synch problem S-cards issue fixed. However, someone recently posted that they were experiencing this synch problem with their 2 s-cards. <sigh>

Even so, I was considering giving the 2 S-cards a try until the tech told me he had seen the channel drop/partial recording problem with equal frequency with S-cards. Aaaaaargh! Right now I'm going on 4 days trouble-free--but I know that's not likely to last. When it goes out again, I may just give the S-cards a try before giving up the ghost and going with a Cox HD-DVR...


----------



## saibari

Shawn95GT said:


> Ok, calm down. You'd have a point if they didn't work anywhere. They do work outside of Cox / M-Card.
> 
> If you 'don't want to take it anymore', cancel Cox if they aren't capable of making it work.
> 
> I only have Cox because Qwest's VDSL isn't a 'cable' system and doesn't do Cablecard. I switched to Cox when I bought my S3 for the HD cable channels. If they couldn't make it happen for me they'd be out the door.
> 
> That's the one especially good thing with Cox - no commitment.


Actually, I think Dbax5 _does_ have a point. In the Phoenix area, we don't have any option other than Cox/Scientific Atlanta cable cards to get service with our TiVo-HDs. So if we cancel Cox, our TiVo-HDs become very expensive door-stops! Considering the extraordinarly bad service we've been getting, I think we've been getting I think we've got plenty of reason to lose our cool.

Given the widespread nature of this problem in this market, I think TiVo _is_ at fault for continuing to sell these units to Phoenix-area consumers, especially without warning them of these issues. At the _very least_ they should have warned those of us who paid for a year of service up-front (like I did) or for lifetime service.


----------



## Shawn95GT

I see your / his point, but where does the problem lie?

There are countless TVs that Cox can't get cablecards working in. I listen to a co-worker complain about it all the time.

I'm convinced that Cox's cablecard implementation just sucks. They got their boxes dialed in and have zero incentive to put any effort into getting consumer owned boxed running on their system. All they get for their effort is one less STB / DVR rental fee, a platform they can't push interactive ads on, and they can't sell you ON-DEMAND, PPV, etc etc.


----------



## andygriffith

Well, misery loves company and I am glad that I am not the only one having this problem.

I noticed this problem starting this past week when the new HD channels were pushed out to my area (Chandler) and it has been driving me crazy ever since!

I called Cox on Wednesday and scheduled a tech to come out to replace my M card today, it probably won't help, but maybe it will have the old firmware on it. ;-)

I also called TiVo today and they are definitely aware of the problem and are working with the other players to get it fixed. Let's hope they "fix" it faster than they responded to the problem with the cable cards losing their authorization that I opened a case on in January.

This morning I was so frustrated I finally Googled the issue and found this site and the many people describing the same problems I have been dealing with since I bought my TiVo HD in December.

For those of you who have been struggling getting Cox techs to help you with the authorization issue, just tell the first line tech that they need to send a hit to your box and they will know what to do, it works every time.

That problem was a pain, but this problem is exponetially worse and makes the TiVo unreliable and unusable. I see it take place almost every hour and I think it is impossible to fully record a 2 hour program.

Today mine crapped out around 11:18 and then about 2:18 PM. I was able to quickly go to the channel signal strength diagnostic and actually saw the digitial signal go to 0 and then come back. It is almost like the Cox equipment stops sending the signal for a moment.

Has anyone seen any signal loss on a regular Digital receiver box in the same house when this takes place on the TiVo HD?

The other question is, why can't Cox and SA back out this "upgrade" that has screwed us all up???????


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Well, misery loves company and I am glad that I am not the only one having this problem.


Yes, it does help to know that there isn't a jinx on your particular house causing all these issues! And, the fact that this is such a widespread problem hopefully means that there _will_ be a fix sometime in the foreseeable future!



andygriffith said:


> I noticed this problem starting this past week when the new HD channels were pushed out to my area (Chandler) and it has been driving me crazy ever since!
> 
> I called Cox on Wednesday and scheduled a tech to come out to replace my M card today, it probably won't help, but maybe it will have the old firmware on it. ;-)


Switching out the M-card _will_ solve the problem... for a few days!



andygriffith said:


> ...For those of you who have been struggling getting Cox techs to help you with the authorization issue, just tell the first line tech that they need to send a hit to your box and they will know what to do, it works every time.
> 
> That problem was a pain, but this problem is exponetially worse and makes the TiVo unreliable and unusable. I see it take place almost every hour and I think it is impossible to fully record a 2 hour program.
> 
> Today mine crapped out around 11:18 and then about 2:18 PM. I was able to quickly go to the channel signal strength diagnostic and actually saw the digitial signal go to 0 and then come back. It is almost like the Cox equipment stops sending the signal for a moment.
> 
> Has anyone seen any signal loss on a regular Digital receiver box in the same house when this takes place on the TiVo HD?


The cox tech who came out last week said there was a problem with the cable cards being able to receive/process the signal. He said they can't send out a stronger signal because it would cause tiling. I have a Series 2 TiVo hooked up to a digital box in another room of my house and have no such problems at all. Signal is fine on all channels there while the TiVo-HD can't get a signal on certain channels...



andygriffith said:


> The other question is, why can't Cox and SA back out this "upgrade" that has screwed us all up???????


The question _I_ have is how can it be that two companies (Cox & TiVo) are getting away with providing such incredibly shoddy and unreliable service?! I filed a complaint with the FCC and haven't heard a thing yet... As soon as I get a chance I plan on doing more...not quite sure what, yet... but I'm going to be putting out complaints far and wide!


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## saibari

Shawn95GT said:


> I see your / his point, but where does the problem lie?
> 
> There are countless TVs that Cox can't get cablecards working in. I listen to a co-worker complain about it all the time.
> 
> I'm convinced that Cox's cablecard implementation just sucks. * They got their boxes dialed in and have zero incentive to put any effort into getting consumer owned boxed running on their system. * All they get for their effort is one less STB / DVR rental fee, a platform they can't push interactive ads on, and they can't sell you ON-DEMAND, PPV, etc etc.


While this is true, I can't help but think that they're losing money repeatedly sending out all those techs to service the cablecards. I would think that would be some incentive to get the problem fixed. ... And when I say I'm going to have to bite the bullet and use a Cox HD-DVR, I'm talking about doing it on their dime. They're not going to charge me for the install or for the monthly service for 6 months--at which point I'd better be able to reliably use my TiVo! I just really hate to go to the trouble of switching, plus I'd have to pay someone to re-program my remote to work with the Cox DVR...


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## andygriffith

Does anyone know whether or not the TiVo HD will stop recording if it experiences this "signal loss" or CableCard reset issue while doing a manual recording for a certain channel and time period?


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## bowlingblogger

andygriffith said:


> Does anyone know whether or not the TiVo HD will stop recording if it experiences this "signal loss" or CableCard reset issue while doing a manual recording for a certain channel and time period?


Yes, it has stopped recording on various occasions for me on manual recordings of "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" and I have wound up with partials every time...just like for Season Pass recordings.


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## andygriffith

My Cox service tech didn't show up for my 3-5 window. I called to escalate and got a service manager. Besides the tech lying to the supervisor about calling me and tagging my door because I wasn't home, I asked the supervisor about his take on this issue.

He basically hadn't heard too much about it, or so he said. I explained to him that it has affected hundreds of people in the Phoenix/Tucson area over the past week after a firmware upgrade.

All I got was a bunch of BS.

If anyone hasn't called to complain about this, please do, so they ALL hear about it.

It is too bad we don't have enough choices. Cox or DirecTV, Turner or DirecTV, Comcast or DirecTV, DirecTV or Dish.

Someone could make a great Dilbert strip with this stuff.


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## andygriffith

bowlingblogger said:


> Yes, it has stopped recording on various occasions for me on manual recordings of "Countdown with Keith Olbermann" and I have wound up with partials every time...just like for Season Pass recordings.


Thanks, I am doing a test right now too.

But I would consider TiVo automatically stopping the recording of "Countown with Keith Olberamann" a desired feature, not a bug. ;-)


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## andygriffith

Just a quick update.

The Cox tech finally came, replaced a bunch of stuff outside to get my signal strength up to spec, although I have never had any problem with signal strength.

He replaced the cable card and it went through the firmware update, activiation, etc.

Within a hour or so, I experienced the cable card reset issue again. I did verify that I am also on the 0301 firmware version.

I think it is safe to say that this is not a hardware issue, but a firmware issue.

Hopefully they will get it fixed very soon, especially with the Olympics coming up.

P.S. I did a test of recording the same show on 2 tuners, one a Season Pass and one a manual recording, they both died after 56 minutes when the cable card reset. I am lucky if it goes 2 hours without doing it, it is usually between 45 and 90 minutes it seems.


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## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Does anyone know whether or not the TiVo HD will stop recording if it experiences this "signal loss" or CableCard reset issue while doing a manual recording for a certain channel and time period?


Yes, it does! I happened to turn on the tv while my soap was recording and saw that it had stopped after the first 3 minutes... it was about 8 min in to the show. So I manually hit record... only to have it stop the recording 10 min later when the channel dropped again. This happened a couple more times during the hour! Aaaaaargh!


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## saibari

I noted in a post earlier this afternoon that I was going on 4 trouble-free days--scratch that! I just discovered that I've had several partial recordings yesterday and today!


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## moyekj

For those of you really having a lot of trouble with this I would suggest removing cablecards, rebooting and re-doing guided setup for analog lineup only and leave the cablecards out until the issue is resolved.


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## saibari

moyekj said:


> For those of you really having a lot of trouble with this I would suggest removing cablecards, rebooting and re-doing guided setup for analog lineup only and leave the cablecards out until the issue is resolved.


I'm sorry--what does that mean? Don't I need the cablecard to get all the channels and HD?


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## moyekj

saibari said:


> I'm sorry--what does that mean? Don't I need the cablecard to get all the channels and HD?


 Yes, you need the cablecards for digital and HD channels. But if the situation is too bad now where you get a bunch of partial recordings and can't watch anything properly then by reverting back to no cablecards at least sub-100 channels (analog lineup) would work/record properly until the issue gets fixed. May be a better alternative to current situation. Anyway just throwing it out there as an option.


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## saibari

moyekj said:


> Yes, you need the cablecards for digital and HD channels. But if the situation is too bad now where you get a bunch of partial recordings and can't watch anything properly then by reverting back to no cablecards at least sub-100 channels (analog lineup) would work/record properly until the issue gets fixed. May be a better alternative to current situation. Anyway just throwing it out there as an option.


Thanks--I appreciate the suggestion. However, I have paid BIG bucks for an _*HD*_-TV, a few hundred dollars for an *HD*-DVR, BIG bucks for these to be set up with a surround sound system installed in my walls, and monthly fees to both TiVo and Cox for *HD* service to that DVR. So a solution that gives me the same level of service that I was getting prior to all these additions is no solution at all. And please don't misunderstand me--the anger and frustration you read into this reply are _not_ directed at you and your suggestion, but at Cox & TiVo!!


----------



## Tiresius

Hey all,

Just wanted to weigh in on this. I've been away from the forums for a while & just checked in for an update on the SDV dongle when I saw this thread. I live in East Mesa.

I have a S3 with two S-Cards(I assume these are single stream cards?) and have not had the partial recording or the 161-38 issue described here at all.

I do have the AV Sync issue described here. In my case, video may pause for a couple seconds, then stutter forward w/no audio & catch up. This happens primarily(but not exculsively) on non-digital SD channels, but only on the Tivo with the cablecards in it. 

I also have a Series 2 DVD-recorder unit & a TivoHD with no cablecards installed. Neither of these units have the problems described in this thread(obviously), but they only get analog channels(1-100).

I keep flirting with the idea of putting an M-card in the TivoHD, but after reading this thread will definitly wait. I don't really need more than two HD tuners so I don't need the hassles described here.

While there has been one or two posts reporting the partial recordings issue occuring with S-cards, I add my vote to the others who say they have NOT seen this issue with S-Cards.

For those of you thinking of switching to a Cox/SA box, I would try S-cards first. We tried the Cox SA DVR when we first moved to AZ about 18 months ago. It was the worst piece of crap I have ever seen. The interface was dismal -horrible. This was coming from Orange County where I had struggled through the Motorola 64xx initial release(like 5 years ago), which improved over time to be really good by the time we moved. It didn't even support the 2nd tuner for a while. Compared to even that initial Motorola release(w/ Passport Echo software, not TV-GUIDE as was used in Mesa on the Motorola boxes before Cox), the SA software was just total crap.

Moyekj can attest to how bad the original 64xx software was in OC and how much it improved over time. Still nothing compared to how bad the SA DVR was when we tried it here.


----------



## YazooWho

Hi All,

Just want to let you all know that replacing the cards will not fix anything regarding the channel loses and resets. You can change them out all day long and the problem will reappear.

I can tell you that all 3 companies are working hard to get the problem fixed. They rolled out this software in other markets without issues. There seems to be a configuration issue with the Phx market. In the process they have uncovered other factors and progress is being made.

Being a long time Tivo user I can certainly feel everyones pain, but rest assured that the issue is not being ignored.


----------



## murph99

Since this forum has helped me keep my sanity with all the Tivo HD issues I've been having, I thought I'd add my two cents.

I'm in north Phoenix, with Cox service and a Tivo HD. I have the same multi-stream SD card I've had since I activated the Tivo in December 2007. I've been lucky enough to avoid any Cox truck rolls. I've had to call Cox 4 or 5 times to ask for a hit on the CableCard, and I've had to reboot the Tivo a dozen times or so.

I'm currently experiencing the same problem with incomplete recordings, and random grey screens with the 16-xxx error message. Got one last night. Haven't had to call Cox since the firmware "upgrade", and I haven't had to reset the Tivo either. It seems like I've just substituted one set of problems for another.

In my experience, the only analog channels are 22 and lower. Channels 23 and higher are standard def, but still digital. When the CableCard would go on the fritz, I couldn't get anything above 22 to come in until Cox sent a hit. Removing the CableCard would really cripple your TV service.

Unfortunately, I took the plunge with lifetime service with the Tivo HD. I was so happy with the many years with my Series 2 that I didn't even think to research it first. So I'm stuck with it, and Cox, for the duration. I hope they get the bugs worked out soon, and I hope the dongle lets me buy PPV (I wanna record UFC...)

Best of luck, everyone!

Patrick


----------



## mbhuff

The "Tuning Adapter" won't allow VOD or PPV, it only supports SDV. While in theory it could be adapted to support VOD or PPV, it hasn't been designed to do that and would have to be re-submited to cablelabs for certifcation. Even if it did, you would be able to "record" UFC, since any VOD or PPV is marked with a 0x03 flag which prevents DVR functions. Current non-cablecard based DVRS (cable companies legacy DVRS) do not have to be certified by cablelabs and therefore don't have to abide by the DRM flags.


----------



## saibari

Tiresius said:


> ...I have a S3 with two S-Cards(I assume these are single stream cards?) and have not had the partial recording or the 161-38 issue described here at all.
> *
> I do have the AV Sync issue described here.* In my case, video may pause for a couple seconds, then stutter forward w/no audio & catch up. This happens primarily(but not exculsively) on non-digital SD channels, but only on the Tivo with the cablecards in it.


This is exactly why I'm very hesitant to try 2 S-cards. First, while most haven't had the partial recordings issue with them, at least a couple of people have. But, more importantly, I just can't deal with the A/V synch issue again! To my mind, that's equally problematic to the partial recording issue: with one, I get a full recording, that's practically unwatchable; with the other, I get watchable recordings, but risk getting only a partial recording. And, believe it or not, as frequent as my partial recordings have been, the A/V synch problem occurred more consistently and with greater frequency! 



Tiresius said:


> ...For those of you thinking of switching to a Cox/SA box, I would try S-cards first. We tried the Cox SA DVR when we first moved to AZ about 18 months ago. It was the worst piece of crap I have ever seen. The interface was dismal -horrible. ...


<Groan!> So can you give me some specifics on what was so horrible about the interface and service with the Cox HD-DVR? TiVo is the only DVR service I've every used...


----------



## saibari

YazooWho said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just want to let you all know that replacing the cards will not fix anything regarding the channel loses and resets. You can change them out all day long and the problem will reappear.
> 
> I can tell you that all 3 companies are working hard to get the problem fixed. They rolled out this software in other markets without issues. There seems to be a configuration issue with the Phx market. In the process they have uncovered other factors and progress is being made.
> 
> Being a long time Tivo user I can certainly feel everyones pain, but rest assured that the issue is not being ignored.


Well, while replacing the cards is not a permanent fix, at least it gives you your channels back for a few days. Plus, why not be a thorn in Cox's side to encourage them to get a fix ASAP? I have a flexible schedule, so it's not a problem for me to be home for the tech and I just let him work on the TV while I go about my business. So I will have a tech come out anytime a re-boot or phone call for a signal hit doesn't solve the problem. And it seems these measures, at least for me, no longer get my channels back. Plus, these methods don't help when you're suffering an intermittent loss of signal...

So Yazoo, as comforting as it is to hear that progress is being made, whenever I talk to a Cox tech they either don't know anything about the problem (_very_ frustrating!) or simply say they're working on it and don't know when a solution will be found. So do you have an inside scoop somehow?


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## saibari

murph99 said:


> Since this forum has helped me keep my sanity with all the Tivo HD issues I've been having, I thought I'd add my two cents.
> 
> ...Unfortunately, I took the plunge with lifetime service with the Tivo HD. *I was so happy with the many years with my Series 2 that I didn't even think to research it first.* So I'm stuck with it, and Cox, for the duration. I hope they get the bugs worked out soon, and I hope the dongle lets me buy PPV (I wanna record UFC...)


Yes, this forum has definitely been a Godsend--thanks all! But when I think about the many hours I've spent reading about and researching this problem, in addition to rebooting and calling Cox, I just want to scream! 

And yes, I have used my Series 2 TiVo for years (lifetime service) with no trouble at all. So I had absolutely no reason to think I wouldn't get the same trouble-free service with TiVo-HD and signed up for 1-year of service (lifetime wasn't an option at the time, thank goodness!). However, I did research it before taking the plunge and did consider the other options: Cox HD-DVR, dish, DirecTV... and in all my readings of reviews it was clear that TiVo was the superior option. _Nowhere did I see any mention of these problems!_ 

Surely it violates some kind of consumer-protection laws for Cox & TiVo to sell equipment and services to consumers _knowing full well_ there are compatability issues without warning the consumer of these issues! Every time I talk to TiVo or Cox they comment something along the lines of "Yeah, those cablecards just don't work well" or "Well, we're separate companies and _(insert either Cox or TiVo here depending on which you're talking to, or Scientific Atlanta) _just can't seem to get their act together to make it work" !!!


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## Tiresius

murph99 said:


> In my experience, the only analog channels are 22 and lower. Channels 23 and higher are standard def, but still digital. When the CableCard would go on the fritz, I couldn't get anything above 22 to come in until Cox sent a hit. Removing the CableCard would really cripple your TV service.


This is a misuderstanding, it's not a big deal, but channels 1-100 are definitly sent to our homes as analog signals. Any analog TV tuner can pick them up, including S2 Tivos, my TivoHD without installed cable cards & the plain old analog TV in my daughters room.

It may be true that with a cablecard installed, if that cablecard goes on the fritz you can't get any channel over 22. I have seen bad behaviour on channels 1-100 that does not occur on my other tv's/Tivos & that goes away when I pull the cablecards out of the series 3. Same signal, same coax, same analog channels, same Tivo, Pull- the cablecard & picture AV/Sync problems go away.

Removing the cablecards gives you analog channels 1-100. Granted this is crappy old analog SD & NOT what you paid for, but it is a way to get your shows recorded for sure until something is done.

You could also demand Cox roll out with a couple of S-cards to try instead of the M-Card(s). YMMV


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## saibari

Tiresius said:


> ...I also have a Series 2 DVD-recorder unit & a TivoHD with no cablecards installed. Neither of these units have the problems described in this thread(obviously), but they only get analog channels(1-100).
> 
> I keep flirting with the idea of putting an M-card in the TivoHD, but after reading this thread will definitly wait. I don't really need more than two HD tuners so I don't need the hassles described here....


So how are you getting HD service with no cablecards? Are you getting it over the air with an antenna? I've not considered that because I've no idea how that works!


----------



## Tiresius

saibari said:


> <Groan!> So can you give me some specifics on what was so horrible about the interface and service with the Cox HD-DVR? TiVo is the only DVR service I've every used...


There were just a myraid of really kludgy ways the interface worked.
One example: Say a show starts a 8pm, you set it to record and tune in at 8:30 to start watching it, so when the program ends at 9pm you're about a 1/2 hour behind wathing it. At 9pm when the recording ends, the box suddenly jumps you to live TV on the channel that just stopped recording. You not only have to go into the list of recorded programs and select your program, but the box does not remember where you were, you have to fast forward to the place you were when it bumped you out to live TV.

This is one example of the stupid stuff that the box would do. Plain and simply, at 10 years into the DVR age, these kinds of basic interface stuff should be figured out.

Then again, the missed recordings people are having is simply unforgiveable. Forced to make a choice I'd rather screw around with a crappy interface than miss the show altogether.


----------



## Tiresius

saibari said:


> So how are you getting HD service with no cablecards? Are you getting it over the air with an antenna? I've not considered that because I've no idea how that works!


I get HD service on the Series 3 with 2 S-cards. I did have an antenna on the TivoHD for a while, but since I didn't really need the extra 2 HD tuners that much, it wasn't worth finding a decent place to hide the ugly antenna or wire it to the attic. The TivoHD is attached to a plasma in the bedroom and we use it to watch analog, or move HD stuff from the Series 3 when the kids take over the movie room.

If you watch a lot of HD stuff on CBS, NBC, ABC, Fox, & WB, the antenna option is also something you could look at until Cox/Tivo fix the bugs you're experiencing. If you like it and can hide it well, you could leave it up even after they fix their issues. Picture looks fantastic as long as you can get a good signal. You'll probably want to hide many of the channels that you don't care about and the SD versions of the channels you do watch so your guide list is not too cluttered.


----------



## jebbbz

saibari said:


> So how are you getting HD service with no cablecards? Are you getting it over the air with an antenna? I've not considered that because I've no idea how that works!


For me, OTA works fine. Before I got a TiVo HD I used a PC with two ATSC digital tuners in it to watch network hi-def. If you have even fair reception you should be OK. I have an attic antenna to the PC as a backup for the TiVo but I have tried a simple telescoping whip antenna screwed into the back of the TiVo with, oh, 85% success. With the attic antenna attached to the TiVo I got excellent reception on everything. I added the OTA channels to the TiVo channel listing and switched to them when the channel loss problem was at its worst for me a few weeks ago.

I think I am in a good area for reception so don't expect a whip antenna or a coat hanger to work (although it might...). A better indoor antenna, say, a Silver Sensor, works fine (I have one on my office PC driving a third ATSC tuner) but depending on your location you may have some difficulty getting every available channel without changing the orientation of the antenna.

Give it a try. Depending on your reception and your tolerance for antennas you should be fine.


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> Thanks--I appreciate the suggestion. However, I have paid BIG bucks for an _*HD*_-TV, a few hundred dollars for an *HD*-DVR, BIG bucks for these to be set up with a surround sound system installed in my walls, and monthly fees to both TiVo and Cox for *HD* service to that DVR. So a solution that gives me the same level of service that I was getting prior to all these additions is no solution at all. And please don't misunderstand me--the anger and frustration you read into this reply are _not_ directed at you and your suggestion, but at Cox & TiVo!!


I am with you bud! This is ridiculous, at least we had a workaround on the old problem, but this is super frustrating, especially with the Olympics right around the corner. I didn't invest in HD technology so I could watch it in SD!

Backout the freaking change and regroup!


----------



## Joel47

I just called and got a $16-and-change credit from Cox for my troubles. It's not much, but it should be a flag in their system. If you've already had a service call that didn't fix the problem, get yourself over to billing and ask for your money back!


----------



## saibari

Joel47 said:


> I just called and got a $16-and-change credit from Cox for my troubles. It's not much, but it should be a flag in their system. If you've already had a service call that didn't fix the problem, get yourself over to billing and ask for your money back!


What was the credit for? Believe me, I've been toying with the idea of asking for a discount on my service. The problem is that the concession they're making to TiVo customers who complain is to give them a Cox HD-DVR with no installation fee and just the monthly cablecard charge (that we're already paying). So I don't think they'll agree to a discount. However, if I do go that route, I'll see if I can get them to pay the fee I'll have to pay to have my remote programmed for the DVR and then programmed back to the TiVo. I'll also do my darndest to get TiVo to refund my service fee for the months during which I'm resorting to the Cox DVR... But I _really_ don't want to have to go that route....

It seems that since my card was replaced last Thu, I've only experienced problems on Sat for several recordings. Since then -- knock wood! -- I've been ok. Let's hope it lasts!


----------



## brosenkrantz

Over the past few weeks we have seen the cable card error 161-38 message interrupt live TV and end recordings. I called COX and the customer service rep. said they can not solve the problem over the air. A technician must visit and if any equipment is damaged they will charge $49.99. For $4.95 I can avoid the $49.99 charge risk. 

We have a TIVO-HD with M card. if we do not get error 161-38 the sound or picture freezes then comes back some times. We have reset the TIVO-HD and reseated the cable card with no help.

I told them I do not need this fixed tonight but would like to have it fixed in the next few weeks.


----------



## BrianAZ

brosenkrantz said:


> Over the past few weeks we have seen the cable card error 161-38 message interrupt live TV and end recordings. I called COX and the customer service rep. said they can not solve the problem over the air. A technician must visit and if any equipment is damaged they will charge $49.99. For $4.95 I can avoid the $49.99 charge risk.
> 
> We have a TIVO-HD with M card. if we do not get error 161-38 the sound or picture freezes then comes back some times. We have reset the TIVO-HD and reseated the cable card with no help.
> 
> I told them I do not need this fixed tonight but would like to have it fixed in the next few weeks.


Sending a tech is worthless. The guy's going to get there.. tell you Tivo sucks and they don't have problems with their DVRs so you should just get one of them. He may replace your cablecard.. but its not the physical card itself that's bad, it's the programming/configuration.


----------



## Joel47

saibari said:


> What was the credit for?


For all my trouble with Tivo + CableCard. I was trying to get them to give me a free HD-DVR, but they (firmly) offered the credit instead.


----------



## saibari

Joel47 said:


> For all my trouble with Tivo + CableCard. I was trying to get them to give me a free HD-DVR, but they (firmly) offered the credit instead.


Interesting... maybe they offered me the DVR because I've had a tech out so many times they figure it's more cost effective to get me into a Cox HD-DVR, even if it's at their expense... But I don't _want_ a Cox DVR. *I want my TiVo to work!!!*


----------



## Rolow

I hated the cox hd dvr when I had it. It missed a few recoding also. The only reason I don't take them up on the $2 hd dvr is dealing with billing if there is a problem is a nightmare and not worth the time. In December when all my problems started they charged me for a truck roll to replace a bad MCard it took 3 months to get it credit back because the tech who came out was a contractor.


----------



## BrianAZ

Rolow said:


> I hated the cox hd dvr when I had it. It missed a few recoding also. The only reason I don't take them up on the $2 hd dvr is dealing with billing if there is a problem is a nightmare and not worth the time. In December when all my problems started they charged me for a truck roll to replace a bad MCard it took 3 months to get it credit back because the tech who came out was a contractor.


I couldn't agree with you more. I ended up turning in a "free DVR" early because they routinley charged me for it each month resulting in my spending 2-3 hrs a month on the phone trying to get the charges reversed.


----------



## YazooWho

They are very close to a solution. Tests show some stability but there are some upgrading issue still that came up.


----------



## saibari

YazooWho said:


> They are very close to a solution. Tests show some stability but there are some upgrading issue still that came up.


Thanks Yazoo, but how did you come by this information? I hope you're right. I'm still experiencing brief signal drops, but they appear to be occurring just a couple times a day so, if I'm lucky, it won't affect my recordings. ... If a solution is near, I'll hang in because, judging by recent posts it certainly doesn't seem like taking up Cox on their offer of a free HD-DVR is a good idea!


----------



## YazooWho

saibari said:


> Thanks Yazoo, but how did you come by this information? I hope you're right. I'm still experiencing brief signal drops, but they appear to be occurring just a couple times a day so, if I'm lucky, it won't affect my recordings. ... If a solution is near, I'll hang in because, judging by recent posts it certainly doesn't seem like taking up Cox on their offer of a free HD-DVR is a good idea!


I can't say a whole lot, but I can say that this is an issue that Tivo and SA are working together closely with Cox, to get the firmware updated on the CC's.

If there is one thing I would tell everyone is that, please just hang in there. This is something that will get fixed soon.


----------



## andygriffith

YazooWho said:


> I can't say a whole lot, but I can say that this is an issue that Tivo and SA are working together closely with Cox, to get the firmware updated on the CC's.
> 
> If there is one thing I would tell everyone is that, please just hang in there. This is something that will get fixed soon.


Thanks, please keep us posted!


----------



## BrianAZ

YazooWho said:


> I can't say a whole lot, but I can say that this is an issue that Tivo and SA are working together closely with Cox, to get the firmware updated on the CC's.
> 
> If there is one thing I would tell everyone is that, please just hang in there. This is something that will get fixed soon.


The comment I will make on this is that based on some interractions I've had with Cox and Tivo over the last several days, I completely agree that there is a very close partnership going on right now between the two companies. Whether it will be 100% fixed "soon" or not I think depends on your definition of the word "soon" . Certainly, progress is being made.


----------



## MarkinAZ

It's been awhile since I've posted but like so many of you my problems have continued. The M-Card firmware update seemed to take care of the gray screen/lost channel problems but it introduced this new possibly more annoying problem. I had my screen freeze, go blank and resume 4 times in 4 hours on two separate HD Tivos last night.

Can anyone say if soon is a matter of days or multiple weeks? If DTV hadn't botched the details of an install a couple of weeks ago I wouldn't still be a Tivo/Cox customer. But if this continues I'm more than willing to give them another chance. That's so sad since Tivo was the reason I came back to Cox last December.

Any details would help.


----------



## andygriffith

"Soon" had better be several days before the Olympics starts.


----------



## BrianAZ

MarkinAZ said:


> It's been awhile since I've posted but like so many of you my problems have continued. The M-Card firmware update seemed to take care of the gray screen/lost channel problems but it introduced this new possibly more annoying problem. I had my screen freeze, go blank and resume 4 times in 4 hours on two separate HD Tivos last night.


Curious... are you able to confirm if the outages hit your two HD Tivo's @ exactly the same time? I'm wondering if it's some sort of environmental change upstream from the Tivo (the line, head-end equipment, etc) impacting all Tivo's in the area at once or if the issue is hitting each unit independently.

Thanks


----------



## Lovak

I live in Tucson and this issue has been occuring on my TiVoHD as well (running firmware v. 301 as well). I've talked with umpteen Cox techs and none of them was willing to admit the problem was with their cable cards...

I just got the 9.4 update and was hoping that would help, but I guess not. Hopefully they will get this resolved soon...


----------



## MarkinAZ

BrianAZ said:


> Curious... are you able to confirm if the outages hit your two HD Tivo's @ exactly the same time? I'm wondering if it's some sort of environmental change upstream from the Tivo (the line, head-end equipment, etc) impacting all Tivo's in the area at once or if the issue is hitting each unit independently.
> 
> Thanks


I'll try to test that the next time I get a screen freeze. It may take some planning to be sure that both Tivos are on the same channel. But then again it may not matter. I'll keep everyone posted.


----------



## jonginear

One of my two Series 3's running dual S cards has announced three times now that I've received the new service update. What's the deal? Are they making adjustments to a finalized service update or is my TiVo wiggin' out?


----------



## TiVoJerry

jonginear said:


> One of my two Series 3's running dual S cards has announced three times now that I've received the new service update. What's the deal? Are they making adjustments to a finalized service update or is my TiVo wiggin' out?


Can you send me a PM with your 15-digit TSN so I can see what's going on? I'd also like to know in a little more detail what you saw, when it came up, and what the timing was (seconds, minutes, hours apart).


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## saibari

As I noted in a previous post, since my last Cox tech visit (last Friday when my m-card was replaced), I've experienced (as near as I can tell) 2 to 3 signal drops a day. This hasn't been too disruptive since I've not been recording at those times. I just noticed that each day for the past 4 days, the signal has dropped at 10:55AM (or thereabouts, I didn't pay enough attention on previous days). It seems odd that it should drop at the same time each day. Does anyone know what exactly is causing these signal drops? 

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that TiVo/Cox/Scientific Atlanta are close to a solution!


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## Rolow

Lets start listing date and times if your around to see it of course. My be we can figure out some sort of pattern. 

08-01-08 about 7p.m.


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## andygriffith

TiVoJerry,

Can you give us all an update on what progress is being made and when we may expect a fix to this major issue?

Thanks.


----------



## MarkinAZ

MarkinAZ said:


> I'll try to test that the next time I get a screen freeze. It may take some planning to be sure that both Tivos are on the same channel. But then again it may not matter. I'll keep everyone posted.


Last night I had two separate freezes that I caught. I was watching Discovery HD. I checked the other TIVO HD in the house while the freeze was going on and it was fine. Coincidentally it was also on Discovery HD. This could mean that it isn't something specific to the signal since it doesn't affect both of my Tivos the same way.


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## andygriffith

I just got the CableCard error/reboot at 7:53 AM.


----------



## JayBird

Ok, this is getting rediculous. When are they going to have the fix ready???

My wife had recorded the recent rebroadcast of the Project Runway season from a couple years ago that was shown as a marathon on Bravo last weekend. It's bad enough to have to tell her I can't do anything about the fact that about half of the episodes are partial recordings, but today while she is trying to watch it, the TiVo keeps putting up cable card error messages on the screen (3 times in the last hour or so), and when you press clear to make it go away, it drops her out of the episode she was watching. Worst than that, it does not keep track of where she was in the show, so she has to go back and restart watching the show from the beginning, and search for where she got interrupted by the CC error. And I'm getting an earful about it.

I'm tired of hearing my wife rant about it. It is absolute B.S. that they didn't at least roll us back to the previous firmware version until they could fix the problem. At least with that version, it was just a once a month issue, but the rest of the time it worked just fine.

TiVo, Cox, SA/Cisco, somebody... Fix this *NOW!*


----------



## saibari

Well, I just turned on the TV (10:28AM) and the Cable-card error 161-38 screen is displayed, but the picture is fine (beneath the error display). Perhaps this means I had just experienced a signal loss? This doesn't seem to be the case though because I see that I have a successfully recorded program from 10:00-10:30 and at other times when I _have_ had a signal loss, no error message is displayed.

I've seen this error message pop up while watching a recorded program as well. The program continues to display beneath the message and I have to press select to get out of it, which stops the program and doesn't retain the spot I was at so when I go back into it I have to start at the beginning. I do seem to be receiving all channels right now...so I really don't know what causes this error message to be displayed.

Anyway, I just pressed "select" to get out of the error message and that took me to an "Important Message" about my having received the "_Summer 2008 TiVo Service Update for TiVo HD and Series3 DVRs_." It goes on to list several usability enhancements--all of which are nice, but I can't get too excited about them because what I'd _really_ love is for our signal-drop problem to be solved!

In checking my recorded programs over the past 24 hours I see that I had a signal drop at close to 5:00AM this morning, 3:59PM yesterday afternoon, and 10:55 yesterday morning. I currently have plenty of room on my TiVo so TiVo is almost constantly recording something as a TiVo suggestion--makes it easy to see if I've experienced signal drops. So it appears to be happening 2 to 3 times a day... as long as I'm not recording anything I want at the time, this is a livable situation. But of course, there's no guarantee it won't occur right during the recording of a favorite program...


----------



## saibari

JayBird said:


> ...My wife had recorded the recent rebroadcast of the Project Runway season from a couple years ago that was shown as a marathon on Bravo last weekend. It's bad enough to have to tell her I can't do anything about the fact that about half of the episodes are partial recordings, but today while she is trying to watch it, the TiVo keeps putting up cable card error messages on the screen (3 times in the last hour or so), and when you press clear to make it go away, it drops her out of the episode she was watching. Worst than that, it does not keep track of where she was in the show, so she has to go back and restart watching the show from the beginning, and search for where she got interrupted by the CC error. And I'm getting an earful about it.
> 
> I'm tired of hearing my wife rant about it. It is absolute B.S. that they didn't at least roll us back to the previous firmware version until they could fix the problem. At least with that version, it was just a once a month issue, but the rest of the time it worked just fine.
> 
> TiVo, Cox, SA/Cisco, somebody... Fix this *NOW!*


Yeah, I really don't know what causes that error message to display. And I do feel for you Jay. In my house I'm the one that watches the most TV so I just have to deal with my own anger and frustration. I guess I should be thankful that I don't have anyone else on my case about it!


----------



## asualumni03

I'm in Chandler (off Val Vista) having the same problems. It's about a 50/50 chance I'll get an entire recording. I have now resorted to setting up one of my favorite shows on Bravo to record the same episode 3 or 4 times, so that at least one of them should go through to the end. I have the patience for this - my fiance does not. He's had Cox out to the house 4 times in the past two weeks and is saying he will go back to the Cox DVR - sending my TiVo to the bedroom  I'm not too concerned right now - but this has to be fixed before the fall season starts! You can't just go in and set up multiple recordings of ABC's shows.

Can I continue having the Cox tech come out weekly? I know it doesn't fix it - but it's the only way I know how to make a point to Cox as it is hitting their pocketbook and not mine.


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## saibari

asualumni03 said:


> ...Can I continue having the Cox tech come out weekly? I know it doesn't fix it - but it's the only way I know how to make a point to Cox as it is hitting their pocketbook and not mine.


Yes, do have them come out! While it doesn't fix the problem for long, it does improve things for a while. And you're right, if we would all have them out whenever the problem gets especially frustrating, I can't help but think it would light a fire under them! Right now, my rate of signal loss is tolerable, but if (when) it gets worse, I'll have them out in a heartbeat!


----------



## BrianAZ

I've got a wishlist setup to record all HD-Documentary and HD-Science&Nature shows. Here is my partial recordings log for these two for the past few days:

Partial Recordings
Name of show and time of signal drop (Show start time + partial duration):
7/31

The Planet's Funniest Animals - 4:57am
It's Me of the Dog - 3:55pm

8/1

E-Vet Interns - 8:31am
Tougher In Alaska - 5:58pm
Meerkat Manor: The Next Generation - 5:58pm
Evolve - 6:47pm
Man Made Marvels - 7:57pm

8/2

Mysteries of the Shark Coast - 6:55am
Warriors - 1:19pm

I would like to ask that you compare this to your recordings and if you happened to record some of the same shows, let us know your location around Phoenix and if your recording broke at the same time as mine. My hope here is to determine if there is some disruption in the general system that causes the signal loss or if it's more localized to our areas.

If no one happened to be recording the shows above, would anyone mind configuring auto-record wishlists like I have? In a day or so, we should have a pretty good idea if we're all dropping at the same time.


----------



## saibari

BrianAZ said:


> ...I would like to ask that you compare this to your recordings and if you happened to record some of the same shows, let us know your location around Phoenix and if your recording broke at the same time as mine. My hope here is to determine if there is some disruption in the general system that causes the signal loss or if it's more localized to our areas.
> 
> If no one happened to be recording the shows above, would anyone mind configuring auto-record wishlists like I have? In a day or so, we should have a pretty good idea if we're all dropping at the same time.


I don't believe it matters what channel or program you're watching. I _think_ the signal drop is across all channels. I say this because when I first noticed the problem, both of the programs I was recording at the same time on different tuners stopped recording at the same time. This happened 3 days in a row, the channels were 715 and ... hmmm, I don't recall the other channel--it was one of the Spanish channels.

Anyway, taking a look at your list and the times I reported in my earlier post of when I had partial recordings over the past day or so, it doesn't appear that the times match up. So it must be a localized thing...


----------



## andygriffith

Let's all record the NASCAR Sprint Cup race tomorrow and see when it dies for each of us. Add one hour to the recording time for good measure, record on ESPN HD, 733. That would be an excellent test. I am sure mine won't make it the entire race without bouncing the CableCard.


----------



## BrianAZ

saibari said:


> I don't believe it matters what channel or program you're watching. I _think_ the signal drop is across all channels. I say this because when I first noticed the problem, both of the programs I was recording at the same time on different tuners stopped recording at the same time. This happened 3 days in a row, the channels were 715 and ... hmmm, I don't recall the other channel--it was one of the Spanish channels.
> 
> Anyway, taking a look at your list and the times I reported in my earlier post of when I had partial recordings over the past day or so, it doesn't appear that the times match up. So it must be a localized thing...


It doesn't matter what channel, sorry if I came across as implying that. I merely listed the show names out to describe how I was coming to my signal-drop times.

I wasn't recording anything @ 5am today but it does look like my wife's 3-4pm recording of Oprah from 8/1 came out OK. Sure sounding like it's localized. I'm going to keep the wishlists I mentioned going as it schedules a lot of recordings and gives me a good way to track how frequently this is happening. I've also set it up to record the racing as well.


----------



## bowlingblogger

andygriffith said:


> Let's all record the NASCAR Sprint Cup race tomorrow and see when it dies for each of us. Add one hour to the recording time for good measure, record on ESPN HD, 733. That would be an excellent test. I am sure mine won't make it the entire race without bouncing the CableCard.


This seems like a good idea--I'll set it and report back tomorrow.


----------



## Rolow

I have the NASCAR race set with an hour pad.

I recorded F1 qualifying on Saturday morning 8/02 and every thing was fine. when I got home from work all my channels where blank. I had no recordings for the day. If I remember correctly there was 7 hours of X-games coverage on 2 channels set to record and 1 ep of Robin Hood. Non of them where recorded. I did a reboot and every thing is fine now. I have all my season passes set up on 2 old series 1's for back up but I did not think to set some sort of back up for the X-games.


----------



## andygriffith

Sounds like we have several of us participating in our test tomorrow. We should be able to determine pretty easily if the CableCard reboots are syncronized or randomly intermittent.


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Let's all record the NASCAR Sprint Cup race tomorrow and see when it dies for each of us. Add one hour to the recording time for good measure, record on ESPN HD, 733. That would be an excellent test. I am sure mine won't make it the entire race without bouncing the CableCard.


Ok, but I have it on channel 732... and it's just one hour. I did give it an extra hour at the end, but wouldn't we need a longer duration to catch something?

Of course, I just started watching 20/20 which I recorded last night and, while it's not a partial recording, 15 min into it there is such severe tiling that it's unwatchable!


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> Ok, but I have it on channel 732... and it's just one hour. I did give it an extra hour at the end, but wouldn't we need a longer duration to catch something?
> 
> Of course, I just started watching 20/20 which I recorded last night and, while it's not a partial recording, 15 min into it there is such severe tiling that it's unwatchable!


We are talking about the race tomorrow and it will be much longer than an hour. If you tag another hour on, it should be around 4+ hours. It starts at 1 PM EST.


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> We are talking about the race tomorrow and it will be much longer than an hour. If you tag another hour on, it should be around 4+ hours. It starts at 1 PM EST.


Ohhhh. Ok, are you talking about the "Nextel Cup"? That's on channel 438 at 11:00AM and runs for 4-1/2 hours... I've got that scheduled now too...

Ugh... and the tiling I mentioned in my previous post occurred on the other program that I recorded at the same time as 20/20 (Swingtown) last night at 9:00--also totally unwatchable. So I imagine the tiling occurred on all channels. Aaargh!


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> Ohhhh. Ok, are you talking about the "Nextel Cup"? That's on channel 438 at 11:00AM and runs for 4-1/2 hours... I've got that scheduled now too...
> 
> Ugh... and the tiling I mentioned in my previous post occurred on the other program that I recorded at the same time as 20/20 (Swingtown) last night at 9:00--also totally unwatchable. So I imagine the tiling occurred on all channels. Aaargh!


Actually, they renamed it the Sprint Cup this year after Sprint bought Nextel last year. The time is right, 11 AM. Channel 438? That is strange, I thought all HD channels for Cox in the Valley were in the 700's.

Anyway, I think you have the right one programmed. Pocono.


----------



## aztivo

I have now been about a month with no drop channels or loss of signal. I have the S3 and the HD when the tech came out he went to the box on the house took it off and put a bigger one in so the cables werent touching. then he put the cable on its own line so it doenst share the phone and internet feed to the house. I have a signal booster that he put in. Sence this time I have had no problems

BTW this is at ray and cooper


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## andygriffith

I just double checked my TiVo, it is set to record the race on channel 733 (ESPN HD) at 11:00 AM. The race is scheduled for 4.5 hours, I added an hour for 5.5 hours. I will let you all the length of my partial recording when it happens.


----------



## andygriffith

aztivo said:


> I have now been about a month with no drop channels or loss of signal. I have the S3 and the HD when the tech came out he went to the box on the house took it off and put a bigger one in so the cables werent touching. then he put the cable on its own line so it doenst share the phone and internet feed to the house. I have a signal booster that he put in. Sence this time I have had no problems
> 
> BTW this is at ray and cooper


Do you have multistream cable cards in both units? Are they on the .301 firware?


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Actually, they renamed it the Sprint Cup this year after Sprint bought Nextel last year. The time is right, 11 AM. Channel 438? That is strange, I thought all HD channels for Cox in the Valley were in the 700's.
> 
> Anyway, I think you have the right one programmed. Pocono.


Ok, I found the HD version -- on 733... I'm all set. There were a million NASCAR programs on the list!


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## murph99

I have also set my HD Tivo to record the Sprint Cup on ESPN HD, including an extra hour on the end. I'll let you know how it goes.


----------



## tootal2

andygriffith said:


> "Soon" had better be several days before the Olympics starts.


Why dont you just record the Olympics off the antenna? Thats what im doing.


----------



## bowlingblogger

Well, I just checked my recording of the race and it's a partial (exactly 30 mins in length). On a side note, when I tried to go back to live tv to start recording it again, I had lost all my channels and had to reboot to get them back--this is the first time this has happened since the upgrade to 301. I've now restarted the recording. I'll be interested to hear the rest of your results...


----------



## aztivo

andygriffith said:


> Do you have multistream cable cards in both units? Are they on the .301 firware?


Yes I do have multistreams in both units 1 in the HD and 2 in the S3


----------



## andygriffith

tootal2 said:


> Why dont you just record the Olympics off the antenna? Thats what im doing.


Because I don't have an antenna and I shouldn't have to.


----------



## andygriffith

I just got home and my recording crapped out after 23 minutes, so 11:23 AM. It just did it again at 12:55 PM.


----------



## BrianAZ

My Sprint recording went for 2:28 before dying. So it died at approx 1:28pm. Whatever's causing this is hitting us at various times. 

Lindsay & Riggs here.


----------



## saibari

BrianAZ said:


> My Sprint recording went for 2:28 before dying. So it died at approx 1:28pm. Whatever's causing this is hitting us at various times.


I just checked and mine went out at the same time as Bowlingblogger (30 min into the recording). I'm in Ahwatukee, where are you, BB? However, all is normal so I didn't have to re-boot as BB did. ...


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> I just checked and mine went out at the same time as Bowlingblogger (30 min into the recording). I'm in Ahwatukee, where are you, BB? However, all is normal so I didn't have to re-boot as BB did. ...


Mine died again at 3:55 PM. It does appear to hit people at different times. I am in Chandler.


----------



## murph99

Adding my results for further info. My recording of the Sprint NASCAR race on ESPN crapped out at 2:30 PM. The recording is 3 hours and 30 minutes long.


----------



## andygriffith

Mine bounced again at 4:55 PM.


----------



## bowlingblogger

@saibari, I'm in Tucson...interesting that our recordings both crapped out after 30 mins. I resumed the recording at 12:38 pm and it made the rest of the way to 4:30 without dying.

Just curious: did anyone else lose channels and have to reboot their Tivo today?


----------



## JayBird

Almost every show that recorded on my TiVo yesterday ended up being a partial recording.

I think this is a big enough issue that one of the TiVo reps (Pony, Jerry, ...) on this forum should provide some sort of a response to this issue on this thread. It's been over a month since Cox rolled out the firmware "upgrade" that caused this problem, and now *everybody* with a TiVo HD with an M-card in the Phoenix area is affected. It's not just a few isolated incidents, but a major widespread problem.

Yes, TiVo can point fingers at Cox or SA/Cisco and say it's their problem, but the bottom line is that the consumer bought a TiVo product, and they expected the TiVo product that they bought to work with the cable system. Thus, it's *TiVo's responsibility* to their customers to get the problem resolved, regardless of whether it requires changes to the TiVo software or to the cable card firmware. The consumer doesn't care where the fix needs to be made, they just want their TiVo to work, or they are going to return it and forever tell others that TiVos don't work. This is the sort of customer relations issue that can either make TiVo shine as a company, or make TiVo go down in flames as everyone in the Phoenix market decides that TiVo is junk. So far, I'm not seeing much shining going on. I'm just seeing a lot of cable card error messages and a lot of partial recordings.

*The current situation is totally unacceptable.*


----------



## saibari

JayBird said:


> ...I think this is a big enough issue that one of the TiVo reps (Pony, Jerry, ...) on this forum should provide some sort of a response to this issue on this thread. It's been over a month since Cox rolled out the firmware "upgrade" that caused this problem, and now *everybody* with a TiVo HD with an M-card in the Phoenix area is affected. It's not just a few isolated incidents, but a major widespread problem.
> 
> Yes, TiVo can point fingers at Cox or SA/Cisco and say it's their problem, but the bottom line is that the consumer bought a TiVo product, and they expected the TiVo product that they bought to work with the cable system. Thus, it's *TiVo's responsibility* to their customers to get the problem resolved, regardless of whether it requires changes to the TiVo software or to the cable card firmware. The consumer doesn't care where the fix needs to be made, they just want their TiVo to work, or they are going to return it and forever tell others that TiVos don't work. This is the sort of customer relations issue that can either make TiVo shine as a company, or make TiVo go down in flames as everyone in the Phoenix market decides that TiVo is junk. So far, I'm not seeing much shining going on. I'm just seeing a lot of cable card error messages and a lot of partial recordings.
> 
> *The current situation is totally unacceptable.*


What he said! Thanks, Jay--*I agree with everything you say above!* I would just add that _neither _TiVo nor Cox get a pass here. (Any Cox reps on this board?) I can re-post the above word-for-word and substitute Cox for TiVo (hope you don't mind my appropriating your words, Jay):

Yes, Cox can point fingers at TiVo and say it's their problem, but the bottom line is that the consumer is buying a service from Cox and they expect that service to work with their equipment (which Cox knew the consumer was using). Thus, it's *Cox's responsibility* to their customers to get the problem resolved, regardless of whether it requires changes to the TiVo software or to the cable card firmware. The consumer doesn't care where the fix needs to be made, they just want their TiVo/cable service to work, or they are going to switch providers and forever tell others that Cox is unreliable. This is the sort of customer relations issue that can either make Cox shine as a company, or make Cox go down in flames as everyone in the Phoenix market decides that Cox service is junk. So far, I'm not seeing much shining going on. I'm just seeing a lot of cable card error messages and a lot of partial recordings.​
And no, Scientific Atlanta doesn't get a pass either, but we didn't buy anything directly from them and aren't paying them directly for anything...

Thanks again, Jay!


----------



## Rolow

My NASCAR race recorded fine. My F1 race stopped recording about 7:26am and In Plain Sight also ended up being a partial recording it stopped at 10:31 pm


----------



## hddude55

aztivo said:


> I have now been about a month with no drop channels or loss of signal. I have the S3 and the HD when the tech came out he went to the box on the house took it off and put a bigger one in so the cables werent touching. then he put the cable on its own line so it doenst share the phone and internet feed to the house. I have a signal booster that he put in. Sence this time I have had no problems
> 
> BTW this is at ray and cooper


I 'm in the same neighborhood and likewise seem to be having no problems for at least two weeks although most of the programs I record are in rerun status, so I haven't been recording much lately. But no channel loss lately, including the brief, "self-correcting" outages that popped up on July 1.


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> What he said! Thanks, Jay--*I agree with everything you say above!* I would just add that _neither _TiVo nor Cox get a pass here. (Any Cox reps on this board?) I can re-post the above word-for-word and substitute Cox for TiVo (hope you don't mind my appropriating your words, Jay):
> 
> Yes, Cox can point fingers at TiVo and say it's their problem, but the bottom line is that the consumer is buying a service from Cox and they expect that service to work with their equipment (which Cox knew the consumer was using). Thus, it's *Cox's responsibility* to their customers to get the problem resolved, regardless of whether it requires changes to the TiVo software or to the cable card firmware. The consumer doesn't care where the fix needs to be made, they just want their TiVo/cable service to work, or they are going to switch providers and forever tell others that Cox is unreliable. This is the sort of customer relations issue that can either make Cox shine as a company, or make Cox go down in flames as everyone in the Phoenix market decides that Cox service is junk. So far, I'm not seeing much shining going on. I'm just seeing a lot of cable card error messages and a lot of partial recordings.​
> And no, Scientific Atlanta doesn't get a pass either, but we didn't buy anything directly from them and aren't paying them directly for anything...
> 
> Thanks again, Jay!


+1!


----------



## andygriffith

hddude55 said:


> I 'm in the same neighborhood and likewise seem to be having no problems for at least two weeks although most of the programs I record are in rerun status, so I haven't been recording much lately. But no channel loss lately, including the brief, "self-correcting" outages that popped up on July 1.


I find it hard to believe you aren't having the same problems that everyone else is having. Are you on the 301 firmware? Before you go to bed, make sure the two tuners are on different channels. When you wake up, check your TiVo and see if they are both on the same channel. If they are, you are having the same problem, you are just not around to see it take place.


----------



## andygriffith

YazooWho said:


> I can't say a whole lot, but I can say that this is an issue that Tivo and SA are working together closely with Cox, to get the firmware updated on the CC's.
> 
> If there is one thing I would tell everyone is that, please just hang in there. This is something that will get fixed soon.


YazooWho,

Can you give us an update on any progress and when this will be fixed in a firmware upgrade? Can you also shed some light as to why the firmware upgrade wasn't backed out as soon as they determined it caused widespread stability and useability issues in the Phoenix/Tucson area? That is technical change 101, have a backout plan.


----------



## Roderigo

andygriffith said:


> I find it hard to believe you aren't having the same problems that everyone else is having. Are you on the 301 firmware? Before you go to bed, make sure the two tuners are on different channels. When you wake up, check your TiVo and see if they are both on the same channel. If they are, you are having the same problem, you are just not around to see it take place.


I'm pretty sure hddude55 has an original series3 box. Maybe the 301 firmware problem is only when running in m-mode.


----------



## JayBird

For those who would like to escalate this with Cox...

General Manager, Cox Arizona
[email protected]

Vice President Public Affairs, Cox Arizona
[email protected]


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> I find it hard to believe you aren't having the same problems that everyone else is having. Are you on the 301 firmware? Before you go to bed, make sure the two tuners are on different channels. When you wake up, check your TiVo and see if they are both on the same channel. If they are, you are having the same problem, you are just not around to see it take place.


ALSO, check your TiVo Suggestions. If you're not recording much, then you probably have a lot of TiVo Suggestions recorded. You can check those and see how many (if any) are partial recordings. That (in addition to my programmed recordings) is how I've been keeping track of how many times my signal is dropped ...


----------



## andygriffith

JayBird said:


> For those who would like to escalate this with Cox...
> 
> General Manager, Cox Arizona
> [email protected]
> 
> Vice President Public Affairs, Cox Arizona
> [email protected]


Thanks Jay, each of them has a shiny new email from me.

Hello,

When the 301 version of the firmware for the Scientific Atlantic multistream cable cards was rolled out over the past couple of weeks it introduced a far more serious problem to the Phoenix/Tucson market than the problems it was to correct.

The vast majority, if not all, Cox customers with DVR's which pay for and utilize these multistream CableCards from Cox are experiencing intermittent CableCard resets which cause the DVR's to stop recording. This results of course in many partial recordings and a lot of frustration.

To date, I have only heard rumors on how hard Cox Communications is working with TiVo and Scientific Atlanta to get this resolved. I would like to know what is going on to fix this problem and when I may expect to see a firmware upgrade to correct it and stabilize the service for which I am paying for on a monthly basis. With the Olympics coming up, I have a lot of events that I want to record and I want to record them in their entirety.

If you can't get this problem resolved in the next few days I highly suggest you roll back the firmware upgrade to the previous version until you are able to properly diagnose and correct the serious stability issue that the firmware upgrade introduced.


----------



## Supermurph

I got a call from Cox the other day and was told that they were working with Cisco/SA and Tivo this week and that fixing this was a high priority. He said they were getting a large amount of service calls on Tivos and that although they don't have a "service agreement" with Tivo, they were committed to their Tivo customers' satisfaction.

That isn't any new information for you, but I can tell you that it was from a Cox manager that called me, rather than leaving it out there as from a mysterious meeting in a dark alley. 

I don't know anything else, but it appears we have their attention.


----------



## aztivo

andygriffith said:


> I find it hard to believe you aren't having the same problems that everyone else is having. Are you on the 301 firmware? Before you go to bed, make sure the two tuners are on different channels. When you wake up, check your TiVo and see if they are both on the same channel. If they are, you are having the same problem, you are just not around to see it take place.


why would this be hard to believe. if you look through the other Cox thread and look for my post you can see where I had been haveing all sorts of problems and just got fixed the other day. I believe that there are just a ton of bad cable cards. But I am sure that there are people who have never had any of these problems. Also I have check my sugestions and all is being recorded with no problems tivos are not rebooting at night as the chanels are each different and the diag. screen for cable cards with time is well over 500,000 seconds which was the latest summer update. and yes they cards are all running 0301 firmware update


----------



## andygriffith

aztivo said:


> why would this be hard to believe. if you look through the other Cox thread and look for my post you can see where I had been haveing all sorts of problems and just got fixed the other day. I believe that there are just a ton of bad cable cards. But I am sure that there are people who have never had any of these problems. Also I have check my sugestions and all is being recorded with no problems tivos are not rebooting at night as the chanels are each different and the diag. screen for cable cards with time is well over 500,000 seconds which was the latest summer update. and yes they cards are all running 0301 firmware update


I find it hard to believe because this is definitely NOT a hardware issue. When this first happened, it was due to a firmware update, not everyone's CableCard going bad at the same time. In addition, myself and many others have had Cox come out and replace the CableCards only to have the exact same problem a hour later.


----------



## asualumni03

Last night was the fourth visit from Cox regarding our cable card problem. It was a representative from Western Cable. He said it is most likely the cable cards and from his experience - about 1 in 6 work right now. SA isn't motivated to make their technology work with other DVR's and Cox IS aware of the situation. Supposedly the firmware upgrade responsible for this happened on July 15th. He didn't provide any timelines for a resolution - just a suggestion to write a complaint to the FCC. He said firmware upgrades cannot be rolled back, so that is not an option. He had one M card and 6 SS cards with him. We ended up going with the SS - however these cards have their own problems on certain channels, including tiling and a pause every 30 seconds or so when it needs to buffer. He was at our house for 2 hours. Since the problem doesn't seem to be resolved, we might have our fifth visit very soon. I will be writing a complaint to the email addresses provided (thanks for posting) and the FCC.


----------



## saibari

asualumni03 said:


> ...Since the problem doesn't seem to be resolved, we might have our fifth visit very soon. I will be writing a complaint to the email addresses provided (thanks for posting) and the FCC.


Yes, I submitted my complaint to the FCC a few weeks ago and I encourage _everyone_ to do the same. I also sent an email to the Cox reps posted by JayBird (General Manager, Cox Arizona, [email protected] & Vice President Public Affairs, Cox Arizona, [email protected] Thanks Jay!

Does anyone know of an appropriate high-level TiVo rep we can write to?


----------



## JayBird

saibari said:


> Does anyone know of an appropriate high-level TiVo rep we can write to?


Tom Rogers
CEO and President
TiVo Inc.
2160 Gold Street
P.O. Box 2160
Alviso, CA 95002-2160


----------



## Rolow

I've been working allot lately but its starting to look like I have a new problem. 

So On 08-02-08 I posted all my channels where gone I wasn't even getting 1-22 and 703-715 like the old problem. So today I get home from work and nothing recorded on 08-04-08 and all channels where blank. I check to see why the tivo said nothing recorded and it said "video signal unavalible" 

The only thing that fixes the problem is a reboot.


----------



## andygriffith

asualumni03 said:


> Last night was the fourth visit from Cox regarding our cable card problem. It was a representative from Western Cable. He said it is most likely the cable cards and from his experience - about 1 in 6 work right now. SA isn't motivated to make their technology work with other DVR's and Cox IS aware of the situation. Supposedly the firmware upgrade responsible for this happened on July 15th. He didn't provide any timelines for a resolution - just a suggestion to write a complaint to the FCC. He said firmware upgrades cannot be rolled back, so that is not an option. He had one M card and 6 SS cards with him. We ended up going with the SS - however these cards have their own problems on certain channels, including tiling and a pause every 30 seconds or so when it needs to buffer. He was at our house for 2 hours. Since the problem doesn't seem to be resolved, we might have our fifth visit very soon. I will be writing a complaint to the email addresses provided (thanks for posting) and the FCC.


The firmware upgrades cannot be rolled back? I would love to know why not!


----------



## JayBird

Rolow said:


> I've been working allot lately but its starting to look like I have a new problem.
> 
> So On 08-02-08 I posted all my channels where gone I wasn't even getting 1-22 and 703-715 like the old problem. So today I get home from work and nothing recorded on 08-04-08 and all channels where blank. I check to see why the tivo said nothing recorded and it said "video signal unavalible"
> 
> The only thing that fixes the problem is a reboot.


I've seen that once or twice since the firmware "upgrade" myself. I'm thinking that's a case where the cable card fails to reset itself after it goes off in the weeds, and the only way to get the cable card working again is to reboot the TiVo. In other words, it's probably related to the same cable card error / partial recording issue that we are all experiencing.

Cox is running out of time if they plan to resolve this before the Olympics start on Friday... I sure wish _*somebody*_ would provide some sort of ETA for a fix instead of just leave us all hanging...

The Dish commercial I saw today boasted that "it's better than TiVo"... Perhaps it's time to start investigating my options...


----------



## andygriffith

JayBird said:


> Cox is running out of time if they plan to resolve this before the Olympics start on Friday... I sure wish _*somebody*_ would provide some sort of ETA for a fix instead of just leave us all hanging...
> 
> The Dish commercial I saw today boasted that "it's better than TiVo"... Perhaps it's time to start investigating my options...


Amen! I saw the same commercial and thought the same thing!


----------



## COXisbadinAZ

andygriffith said:


> Amen! I saw the same commercial and thought the same thing!


I've been doing the same thing for weeks up until last Friday, when I lost the SDV channels, I'm selling my Tivo and going to DirecTV. I reallly am not happy about doing it (especially since I have a lifetime service for my TivoHD), but with the poor support from Cox, I had no other options.


----------



## Supermurph

COXisbadinAZ said:


> I've been doing the same thing for weeks up until last Friday, when I lost the SDV channels, I'm selling my Tivo and going to DirecTV. I reallly am not happy about doing it (especially since I have a lifetime service for my TivoHD), but with the poor support from Cox, I had no other options.


Cox in Phoenix is not yet on SDV as they are still rolling on OnDemand. The Cox person I spoke to told me the current plan was for September.

As an update for the CableCard issue, I received a return call today from a guy at Cox that is involved in the meetings between Cisco, Tivo, and Cox. He left me a message saying that they met today and that Cox engineers from Atlanta would be contacting me to gather more information about the issues I am having.

That's all the information I have and I'll post back as I know more. I just wanted to let you know that they are working on it. I am equally as frustrated as many out there, but it may be a little premature for mass letter writing, lawsuits, Federal complaints, etc. However, that's obviously an individual choice.

I'll post back if I learn anything else.


----------



## COXisbadinAZ

Supermurph said:


> T I am equally as frustrated as many out there, but it may be a little premature for mass letter writing, lawsuits, Federal complaints, etc. However, that's obviously an individual choice.
> 
> I'll post back if I learn anything else.


For me I'm just going to sell my Tivo with lifetime service on Ebay and I should get most of my $ back and never use Cox again. I am also in the process of canceling my cable modem too. I'm just so angry with the way that Cox has handled this I refuse to give them any more of my money. Its too bad too cause I really like my Tivo, but I hate Cox more....


----------



## saibari

Supermurph said:


> ...That's all the information I have and I'll post back as I know more. I just wanted to let you know that they are working on it. I am equally as frustrated as many out there, but it may be a little premature for mass letter writing, lawsuits, Federal complaints, etc. However, that's obviously an individual choice....


_*Premature?!*_  I've been experiencing problems of one sort or another since I first got my TiVo-HD back in October. Instead of improving, the problems have only escalated. Neither Cox nor TiVo seemed to know how to deal with the problems and I managed to find fixes (however temporary) only through finding message boards like this. The level of service we've received is nothing short of outrageously bad! And all we get from them is "We're working on it"?!

As far as I'm concerned, we've all been extraordinarly patient. And frankly, the only reason I've hung in there this long is that I love TiVo (_when it works_) and I've paid for the box and 1-year of service--so I'm kind of stuck. Otherwise, I would've left after the first month of this nonsense!


----------



## saibari

Rolow said:


> I've been working allot lately but its starting to look like I have a new problem.
> 
> So On 08-02-08 I posted all my channels where gone I wasn't even getting 1-22 and 703-715 like the old problem. So today I get home from work and nothing recorded on 08-04-08 and all channels where blank. I check to see why the tivo said nothing recorded and it said "video signal unavalible"
> 
> The only thing that fixes the problem is a reboot.


This is the situation I came home to in mid-July, after I spent a week out of town. A re-boot didn't solve the problem though. I had to have Cox out to replace the cable card...


----------



## andygriffith

It took me 4 attempts to successfully record a 1 hour program last night. This is really making me angry and the lack of communication from Cox makes me that much angrier. They know the customer's that have CableCards since they sent out that dongle email for SDV, yet they don't send an email communicating that there is a problem and the ETA on a resolution. Pathetic customer service.


----------



## JayBird

I just sent a PM to TiVoJerry, TiVoPony, and TiVoStephen requesting that one of them give us an official update from TiVo regarding this issue. Let's see what they have to say...


----------



## saibari

JayBird said:


> I just sent a PM to TiVoJerry, TiVoPony, and TiVoStephen requesting that one of them give us an official update from TiVo regarding this issue. Let's see what they have to say...


so I'm a bit confused--are these people official TiVo reps? ... as in, they are TiVo employees specifically designated to interface with consumers?


----------



## JayBird

saibari said:


> so I'm a bit confused--are these people official TiVo reps? ... as in, they are TiVo employees specifically designated to interface with consumers?


They are TiVo employees who are also members of this forum. However, as far as I know, their interaction on this forum is voluntary, and not an official part of their job description. That being said, if you've been around this forum for any amount of time, you will see that they do what they can to help the TiVo community, and assist with escalating issues when warranted. I'm hoping at least one of them can help us to get this issue resolved ASAP, or at least give us some sort of ETA or status other than "we're working on it".


----------



## BrianAZ

Supermurph said:


> I got a call from Cox the other day and was told that they were working with Cisco/SA and Tivo this week and that fixing this was a high priority. He said they were getting a large amount of service calls on Tivos and that although they don't have a "service agreement" with Tivo, they were committed to their Tivo customers' satisfaction.
> 
> That isn't any new information for you, but I can tell you that it was from a Cox manager that called me, rather than leaving it out there as from a mysterious meeting in a dark alley.
> 
> I don't know anything else, but it appears we have their attention.


Sorry, I've been out of town on business these last few days. I received the same call from Cox w/ the same message. I've also heard the same from reliable sources @ Tivo. In fact, I believe reps from each company were traveling to Az to meet in person on this issue.


----------



## BrianAZ

asualumni03 said:


> ...He said firmware upgrades cannot be rolled back, so that is not an option.


Can't go into much detail here... but I can assure you that firmware versions *CAN* be rolled back. Supermurph should also be able to back this up.


----------



## JayBird

BrianAZ said:


> I believe reps from each company were traveling to Az to meet in person on this issue.


Um... it's about time...


----------



## JayBird

BrianAZ said:


> I can assure you that firmware versions *CAN* be rolled back.


So why the $#%! didn't they roll it back to the previous version once it was obvious that the problems with the updated version were far worse than the problems with the previous version? I would much rather make a monthly call to Cox to get my channels back than have to daily explain to my wife that "they are still working on" fixing the partial recordings issue.


----------



## andygriffith

JayBird said:


> So why the $#%! didn't they roll it back to the previous version once it was obvious that the problems with the updated version were far worse than the problems with the previous version? I would much rather make a monthly call to Cox to get my channels back than have to daily explain to my wife that "they are still working on" fixing the partial recordings issue.


That has been my question exactly. The only thing I can think of is that other changes were also made during the same time that cannot be backed out very easily, maybe SDV related stuff. Even if that is the case, you always need a backout plan and the fact that they didn't see this coming makes their QA department look really pathetic.


----------



## Rolow

My tivo lost all channels at midnight i rebooted at 11:30am. while watching tv i got the 161-38 error followed by a complete loss of channels another reboot fixed the problem.

Am I the only one that is lossing all channels when error 161-38 comes up?


----------



## JayBird

Rolow said:


> Am I the only one that is lossing all channels when error 161-38 comes up?


No, most of the time the channels come back in a few minutes, after the cable card resets itself and comes back to life. However, I've had several occurences now where the channels didn't come back until I rebooted the TiVo.


----------



## BrianAZ

andygriffith said:


> That has been my question exactly. The only thing I can think of is that other changes were also made during the same time that cannot be backed out very easily, maybe SDV related stuff. Even if that is the case, you always need a backout plan and the fact that they didn't see this coming makes their QA department look really pathetic.


No idea. I think Supermurph has had more direct discussions with cox than i. Perhaps he can make that suggestion. Fw 301 fixed the issue where a reboot/card reset wouldnt bring your channels back and you had to call cox once a month. Maybe the are hesitant because of that?? If so, i think that could be easily handled by adding an article to their knowledgebase that walks first level csr though the unpair, pair, refresh-hit fix. Im certain all TivoHD owners in Phoenix would welcome that. No idea what it would mean for S3 owners.


----------



## andygriffith

BrianAZ said:


> No idea. I think Supermurph has had more direct discussions with cox than i. Perhaps he can make that suggestion. Fw 301 fixed the issue where a reboot/card reset wouldnt bring your channels back and you had to call cox once a month. Maybe the are hesitant because of that?? If so, i think that could be easily handled by adding an article to their knowledgebase that walks first level csr though the unpair, pair, refresh-hit fix. Im certain all TivoHD owners in Phoenix would welcome that. No idea what it would mean for S3 owners.


Yeah, but that has been a known issue since December or January, I am sure the techs are all very familiar with that process. All of the tech's that I have talked to when dealing with that have known exactly what to do when I told them my CableCard lost its authorization and that they need to hit it. Unfortunately, we are at their mercy.


----------



## BrianAZ

andygriffith said:


> Yeah, but that has been a known issue since December or January, I am sure the techs are all very familiar with that process. All of the tech's that I have talked to when dealing with that have known exactly what to do when I told them my CableCard lost its authorization and that they need to hit it. Unfortunately, we are at their mercy.


You had better luck than i. In the 4-5 times i had to call, i had to ask for a supervisor each time to get someone who had a clue and didnt immediatley suggest a cox dvr and truck roll. If they made a concerted effort to enhance their training i have no doubt more customers would have the experience you did.


----------



## Supermurph

I don't know the tech side of the firmware update, but I can say that I have had either a roll back or a reversal of some sort in the past. I've had new firmware come in only to have it revert back a week later. Other than that, I don't know anything about why they would or wouldn't roll back the current firmware.

In response to some of your replies to my comment about being premature with letter writing, I can understand how you responded. Sometimes it can be difficult to capture everything in a post like this and I probably did not convey my whole attitude on the issue. 

A few weeks ago ... I was exactly where you are in terms of being fed up and angry. I moved the Tivo into a bedroom so I could still monitor if a fix was coming, but I went to a Cox store and got a Cox DVR for my main TV because I couldn't take it anymore. I was going to give it a week or two and then put the Tivo on eBay and start making angry phone calls. Just like you, I made some initial noise, and now it seems like I have the attention of some of the people involved in trying to resolve the issues. In that short time, it has become apparent that they are very aware of the issue, are concerned about it, and are making it a priority to fix it.

Knowing that they are sincerely engaged in the issue has shifted my attitude for the time being. So, I shared my information on this thread in the hopes that it might also make it easier for you while we all await a fix. With that said ... I've shared all I know and am in the same boat as you. So, rest assured that although "the clock" has restarted, it is ticking, and at some point time will run out. If that time comes, I will be right there with many of you selling my Tivo and calling/writing for service refunds. However, for now I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Naively or not, I'd expect a fix in the coming weeks now that the three companies are actively engaged and working together. If not ........

That's it .... I've said my peace.


----------



## saibari

BrianAZ said:


> You had better luck than i. In the 4-5 times i had to call, i had to ask for a supervisor each time to get someone who had a clue and didnt immediatley suggest a cox dvr and truck roll. If they made a concerted effort to enhance their training i have no doubt more customers would have the experience you did.


I'm afraid most of my experiences have been like yours Brian...


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## saibari

Supermurph said:


> ... In that short time, it has become apparent that they are very aware of the issue, are concerned about it, and are making it a priority to fix it.
> 
> Knowing that they are sincerely engaged in the issue has shifted my attitude for the time being. ...


Well, you're a far more understanding and patient person than I, Supermurph. In my opinion they should have made it a priority to address these TiVo/cablecard issues _months_ ago! As I've said, I've had problems of one sort or another from the very start, back in October. I imagine these issues existed long before I jumped into the TiVo-HD fray. So this business about being "sincerely engaged" is far too little, too late. The only reason I'm hanging in is because I don't see a good alternative out there, especially given the $$ I've already sunk into this.

To my mind, I am owed compensation for all my aggravation and awful service these past 10 months _and_ continued compensation until they get this mess fixed. And no, in my opinion formal complaints to any and all appropriate authorities are not the least bit premature...


----------



## aztivo

saibari said:


> Well, you're a far more understanding and patient person than I, Supermurph. In my opinion they should have made it a priority to address these TiVo/cablecard issues _months_ ago! As I've said, I've had problems of one sort or another from the very start, back in October. I imagine these issues existed long before I jumped into the TiVo-HD fray. So this business about being "sincerely engaged" is far too little, too late. The only reason I'm hanging in is because I don't see a good alternative out there, especially given the $$ I've already sunk into this.
> 
> To my mind, I am owed compensation for all my aggravation and awful service these past 10 months _and_ continued compensation until they get this mess fixed. And no, in my opinion formal complaints to any and all appropriate authorities are not the least bit premature...


On point we never had troubles (original S3 owner from Sep. 06) untill December 07. 
You are not owed compensation because no one made you chose tivo. and "tivo" per-say is not the problem as most in Tucson and the rest of the country are not having these problems. Now I agree that cox should take some off the bill but that is not owing you anything.


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## andygriffith

aztivo said:


> On point we never had troubles (original S3 owner from Sep. 06) untill December 07.
> You are not owed compensation because no one made you chose tivo. and "tivo" per-say is not the problem as most in Tucson and the rest of the country are not having these problems. Now I agree that cox should take some off the bill but that is not owing you anything.


I think his point is that TiVo/Cox are selling hardware and a service that is supposed to work and work reliably. Neither is warning people who buy their service/hardware that there are issues that make using their service/hardware unreliable and frustrating. These problems have been going on for more than 9 months. As paying customers, we are owed reliable service for which we are paying.


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## BrianAZ

I'm very much a proponent of Tivo and am willing to help all three companies troubleshoot, but I agree that there should be some discount to all us TivoHD owners in Phoenix. In my mind, Tivo should discount their service fee by 1/2 each month and Cox should refund the monthly cablecard fee AND offer free DVRs (without us having to call back each month to reverse charges) until the issue is resolved.


----------



## asualumni03

I didn't mean that a firmware upgrade couldn't be rolled back, but the technician told me Cox was not considering that an option because it would be too difficult. I sent my complaint to the FCC today and did a regular online complaint through Cox. Once I receive Cox's reply - if there is still no resolution, then I will write another complaint to the general manager and VP at Cox. I need to get rid of these SS cards they installed, so if anyone hears of a resolution, please let us know - then it's back to the M card asap.


----------



## kulrythm

aztivo said:


> On point we never had troubles (original S3 owner from Sep. 06) untill December 07.
> You are not owed compensation because no one made you chose tivo. and "tivo" per-say is not the problem as most in Tucson and the rest of the country are not having these problems. Now I agree that cox should take some off the bill but that is not owing you anything.


First, I live in Tucson, and am having the cable card error with partial recordings multiple times a day. So, I don't think that the problem is limited to Phoenix. What I am curious about is why do some people have the problem and others don't? Why do COX customers in some parts of the country have the problem, while customers in other parts don't? Why do customers from some cable providers have the problem while customers from other providers don't?

Second, TiVo does have an obligation to provide the services they promised. Whether or not anyone "made" anyone else buy a TiVo and pay for TiVo service is irrelevant to TiVo's duty. My TiVo owners manual says that the TiVoHD is supposed to record digital and high definition channels using a cable card provided by my cable company. The fact that the cable card is provided by a third party, and manufactured by a fourth party is irrelevant to the question of whether TiVo has an obligation to make the consumer "whole." To say that TiVo has no obligation because it is not "their" cable card would be analogous to saying TiVo has no obligation if the hard drive fails, because it is made by Western Digital. There is really no question in my mind that TiVo owes refunds to everyone experiencing this problem.


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## bowlingblogger

I also live in Tucson and have been having problems with my TivoHD since I got it in January. The many-times-a-day channel-loss is only the most recent and frustrating iteration of said problems. Needless to say (and in the spirit of my own laziness), I agree with everything kulrythm had to say.

Come to think of it, I don't know anyone else in Tucson with a TivoHD, so that means Tucson TivoHD owners are batting zero in my experience.


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## mzwahlen

It definitely is not limited to Phoenix. I live in Casa Grande and have had problems with the cable card issue since I have had the HD service which was made available just recently in the Casa Grande Area. About a Month or so now. Before we had HD I had no problems with my TiVo. I am greatly frustrated and what makes it hard is there is not a lot of options out there...I thought about just canceling the HD/Digital and go back to the standard def extended basic. But the whole reason I bought the HD TiVo is so that when HD / Digital did become available in Casa Grande I could get the service...I feel very cheated now.


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## andygriffith

I may have some good news to report. Today, for the first time since this issue raised its ugly head, my TiVoHD went all day without a CableCard reset. I came home and both tuners were on the same different channels that I left them on before going to work. As you all know, this is quite unusual for me since I have been experiencing resets practically every hour and definitely no longer than 3 hours between resets.

I did verify that I am still on the 301 firmware, so maybe they found something and corrected it elsewhere. 

Do some more testing and see if anyone else has improved. If this goes through the night, something definitely has been improved or fixed.


----------



## saibari

aztivo said:


> On point we never had troubles (original S3 owner from Sep. 06) untill December 07.
> You are not owed compensation because no one made you chose tivo. and "tivo" per-say is not the problem as most in Tucson and the rest of the country are not having these problems. Now I agree that cox should take some off the bill but that is not owing you anything.


You _are_ kidding, right?! Cox may not have "made" me choose TiVo but they knew when I entered into a service "contract" with them that it was to priovide HD service _to my TiVo_. They did not add the caveat--"Oh, but don't expect reliable service unless you use _our_ DVR!

And frankly, whether or not the problem is widespread is quite irrelevant (though it certainly _is_ widespread in Arizona at least). Even if I was the _only_ person experiencing the problem, the fact remains that I'm not getting the reliable service I paid for. So I am owed compensation in the form of a credit for part of the fees I've paid over the past 10 months and a deduction off the fees I pay going forward until I get the consistent reliable service both Cox & TiVo owe to each and every one of their customers. To my mind, 50% is reasonable...


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## Roderigo

kulrythm said:


> TiVo does have an obligation to provide the services they promised. Whether or not anyone "made" anyone else buy a TiVo and pay for TiVo service is irrelevant to TiVo's duty. My TiVo owners manual says that the TiVoHD is supposed to record digital and high definition channels using a cable card provided by my cable company.


And, tivo is providing that service. Their material also says "cablecard may be required," it implies "cablecard from your cable company that works (and is legally mandated to work)"



kulrythm said:


> The fact that the cable card is provided by a third party, and manufactured by a fourth party is irrelevant to the question of whether TiVo has an obligation to make the consumer "whole." To say that TiVo has no obligation because it is not "their" cable card would be analogous to saying TiVo has no obligation if the hard drive fails, because it is made by Western Digital.


I completely don't agree with this paragraph. Tivo certainly has an obligation that the hardware it's selling you (which includes the drive) functions properly. And they have warranties to guarantee that if something goes wrong with what they sell you it will be fixed. They have absolutely no obligation to make sure that other required 3rd party equipment works.

Here are some better analogies:
1) Your cable company can't get a signal to your house worth a crap. They can't even get their cable box to work well with the signal. No one would expect tivo to take responsibility for this deficiency from your cable company.

2) You live somewhere where your phone lines are barely good enough for voice. You get a tivo, and it can barely sustain the call long enough to get its guide data. The connection is just good enough, that you don't notice a problem in normal operation. But, when it comes time for a software upgrade, there's no way that the connection will stay up long enough.

In both these cases, you're still an unhappy, frustrated tivo customer, but no one would be demanding a refund from tivo for these faults outside of its control. Same with the cablecards. Your tivo box requires cablecards that work, just like it requires a good cable signal, and a way to connect home every day.

Should tivo care? Sure, Phoenix is a large market, and it certainly doesn't want to have unhappy customers, regardless of who's "at fault". There's always a small chance the problem is with the tivo. But, from this thread, and from the main cox thread, seems pretty clear that things were working fine until cox rolled out a cablecard firmware upgrade in October, and was made even worse when they rolled out the most recent upgrade that fixed the problems for other Cox locations.

Should tivo give you some sort of discount? I don't think they're obligated to give you a discount because of something out of their control. Would they? Maybe it's worthwhile because you're still an unhappy tivo customer, and the compensation may make your wound feel a bit better.


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## saibari

andygriffith said:


> I may have some good news to report. Today, for the first time since this issue raised its ugly head, my TiVoHD went all day without a CableCard reset. ... If this goes through the night, something definitely has been improved or fixed.


Sorry to burst your bubble, Andy, but I experienced 2 signal drops so far today--that I know of... But maybe your personal situation has taken a turn for the better and you'll be lucky and it will stay that way!

I did get a call from a Cox "customer satisfaction" rep as a result of my email to the two Cox execs posted on this board. In fact, I got the call the very same day I sent the note (Tue), but I didn't get a chance to call back until today. The rep was sympathetic and patiently listened as I very politely gave her an earful and let her know that were it not for the fact that I already have a monetary investment in the TiVo box and a year of TiVo service, I would have left Cox (and TiVo) long ago.

She reported (as someone else already noted) that all the various company players have been meeting in Phoenix over the past couple of days, but she didn't know what (if anything) has come of it... and, of course, still no ETA for a solution. She also noted that it has come to the attention of Cox higher-ups that the impression is that they don't care about TiVo customers' problems. So they apparently are trying to address this...finally...

She added that I am the eighth customer placed on the "Escalated Customers" list. I pointed out that I felt it shouldn't have taken an email to two Cox upper-level execs to get put on this list. I would think that the sheer number of times I've had to call Cox and have techs come out should've gotten me on the list. Heck, _everyone_ on this board should, be on that list... But at least they realize that the problems _have_ escalated and that they need to do something about it. We'll see what happens...


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## andygriffith

saibari said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble, Andy, but I experienced 2 signal drops so far today--that I know of... But maybe your personal situation has taken a turn for the better and you'll be lucky and it will stay that way!
> 
> I did get a call from a Cox "customer satisfaction" rep as a result of my email to the two Cox execs posted on this board. In fact, I got the call the very same day I sent the note (Tue), but I didn't get a chance to call back until today. The rep was sympathetic and patiently listened as I very politely gave her an earful and let her know that were it not for the fact that I already have a monetary investment in the TiVo box and a year of TiVo service, I would have left Cox (and TiVo) long ago.
> 
> She reported (as someone else already noted) that all the various company players have been meeting in Phoenix over the past couple of days, but she didn't know what (if anything) has come of it... and, of course, still no ETA for a solution. She also noted that it has come to the attention of Cox higher-ups that the impression is that they don't care about TiVo customers' problems. So they apparently are trying to address this...finally...
> 
> She added that I am the eighth customer placed on the "Escalated Customers" list. I pointed out that I felt it shouldn't have taken an email to two Cox upper-level execs to get put on this list. I would think that the sheer number of times I've had to call Cox and have techs come out should've gotten me on the list. Heck, _everyone_ on this board should, be on that list... But at least they realize that the problems _have_ escalated and that they need to do something about it. We'll see what happens...


Well, if it only happens to me twice a day, I would be much happier. That is a lot better than once every 1-3 hours.

I sent an email to each of the execs and heard nothing. I didn't include a phone number, maybe you did, but they didn't send me an email either.

Let's hope they get this fixed and soon!


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## andygriffith

Well, I just got the cable card error about 10 mins ago. That is the longest it has gone by far, over 12 hours. I will see if it lasts through the night.


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## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Well, if it only happens to me twice a day, I would be much happier. That is a lot better than once every 1-3 hours.
> 
> I sent an email to each of the execs and heard nothing. I didn't include a phone number, maybe you did, but they didn't send me an email either.
> 
> Let's hope they get this fixed and soon!


Yes, I included my address and phone number.... And good luck on your improved situation continuing!


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## kulrythm

Roderigo said:


> And, tivo is providing that service. Their material also says "cablecard may be required," it implies "cablecard from your cable company that works (and is legally mandated to work)"
> 
> I completely don't agree with this paragraph. Tivo certainly has an obligation that the hardware it's selling you (which includes the drive) functions properly. And they have warranties to guarantee that if something goes wrong with what they sell you it will be fixed. They have absolutely no obligation to make sure that other required 3rd party equipment works.
> 
> Here are some better analogies:
> 1) Your cable company can't get a signal to your house worth a crap. They can't even get their cable box to work well with the signal. No one would expect tivo to take responsibility for this deficiency from your cable company.
> 
> 2) You live somewhere where your phone lines are barely good enough for voice. You get a tivo, and it can barely sustain the call long enough to get its guide data. The connection is just good enough, that you don't notice a problem in normal operation. But, when it comes time for a software upgrade, there's no way that the connection will stay up long enough.
> 
> In both these cases, you're still an unhappy, frustrated tivo customer, but no one would be demanding a refund from tivo for these faults outside of its control. Same with the cablecards. Your tivo box requires cablecards that work, just like it requires a good cable signal, and a way to connect home every day.


My TiVo came with a piece of paper entitled "Getting Your HD and Premium Digital Cable Channels." On it it says:


> This TiVo HD DVR is powered by CableCARD decoders. In other words, this TiVo DVR receives digital and high-definition cable channels without a cable box using CableCARD decoders, available exclusively from your cable provider.
> 
> IMPORTANT! Without CableCARD decoders, you will not be able to watch or record all of your digital cable channels with the TiVo HD DVR. . . . (other stuff about having the cable company install a CableCARD)


In addition, on the TiVo website, when you go to "Shop" and click on "TiVo HD," the first section is entitled "Product Highlights." The third bullet down says "Replace your cable box using one or more CableCard decoders available from your cable company."

In both instances, TiVo makes explicit claims that the TiVo HD can accept a CableCARD and receive digital and high-definition channels without a cable box. The issue is not failing hardware that simply needs replacement (I should have clarified what I meant in my earlier post - I meant to say "if the harddrive uniformly fails to function properly in the TiVo HD . . .). Rather, it is a fundamental problem with the system of hardware and software that fails to perform as promised. TiVo does owe restitution to its customers for promising that their TiVo HD could replace a cable box if CableCARDs are used. That's not to say that COX and SA aren't also liable, but TiVo certainly isn't off the hook for the promises that are explicitly made in their advertisement and ownership documentation. If you feel bad that TiVo would have to pay for something "out of their control," depending on jurisdiction, TiVo could probably seek compensation from COX or SA later on.

In my case, I have 5 days left in my 30 day return period, so I would really only be "out" $13 for one month of TiVo service, plus the cost of digital cable that I haven't been able to watch, plus whatever theoretical value could be place on the stress and inconvenience of dealing with the problem. For most others on here though, the 30 day grace period has expired, and they are likely locked into ownership of the TiVo box, and lifetime or year-long service. Without compensation, they are left with a huge financial burden in the form of a fancy paper weight.

[Sorry for hijacking the thread]


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## JayBird

andygriffith said:


> I may have some good news to report. Today, for the first time since this issue raised its ugly head, my TiVoHD went all day without a CableCard reset. I came home and both tuners were on the same different channels that I left them on before going to work. As you all know, this is quite unusual for me since I have been experiencing resets practically every hour and definitely no longer than 3 hours between resets.
> 
> I did verify that I am still on the 301 firmware, so maybe they found something and corrected it elsewhere.
> 
> Do some more testing and see if anyone else has improved. If this goes through the night, something definitely has been improved or fixed.


The problem appears to be random. It doesn't happen at the same time for everybody, and on any given day, one person can have little or know trouble, while others are having numerous cable card errors and partial recordings. I've had days without any observed problems, and other days where it's several times an hour all day long. The common denomonator is that it's happening to everyone with a TiVo HD with an M-card, at least to some degree, although there's no correlation between when one person has issues and when another one does.

As for me, I had two out of three episodes of "Extreme Factories" that got recorded off of National Geographic HD (722) today that both ended up as partial recordings.


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## kulrythm

So, S-Cards seem to work fine?


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## andygriffith

kulrythm said:


> So, S-Cards seem to work fine?


They have their own problems, like audo/video sync issues.


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## craigo

kulrythm said:


> So, S-Cards seem to work fine?


Compared to the problems listed in this thread, YES!


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## Kershek

I'm in Mesa and I'm having the same problems with the cableCARD giving an error multiple times per day and cutting off my recordings. I thought it was great that TiVo provided a way to easily record the upcoming Olympics. However, now I'm very concerned that I will even get to watch those shows because of these errors.


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## saibari

craigo said:


> Compared to the problems listed in this thread, YES!


Actually, that depends on the extent of your S-card problem. I started out with S-cards and had terrible audio/video synch problems such that many shows (both live TV and recorded) were virtually unwatchable. At least now the recordings I do get are watchable ... That's why I've not gone back to S-cards...


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## andygriffith

I guess the 12 hour goodness was a fluke. I tried recording American Chopper at 9 PM tonight and got a partial recording. Oh well.


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## craigo

saibari said:


> Actually, that depends on the extent of your S-card problem. I started out with S-cards and had terrible audio/video synch problems such that many shows (both live TV and recorded) were virtually unwatchable. At least now the recordings I do get are watchable ... That's why I've not gone back to S-cards...


Totally understand. The audio/video synch problems are still there, however, I only see this on a couple of SD channels (which I rarely watch). All HD channels come in perfect and I never have lost channels or have partial recordings. The problems you guys are having with the M-cards sure do sound much worse than the S-card problems. YMMV.


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## BrianAZ

craigo said:


> Totally understand. The audio/video synch problems are still there, however, I only see this on a couple of SD channels (which I rarely watch). All HD channels come in perfect and I never have lost channels or have partial recordings. The problems you guys are having with the M-cards sure do sound much worse than the S-card problems. YMMV.


This is good to know. I also had *AWFUL* synch issues with S cards which forced me to move to the M card. It was a choice between horrible synch most of the time and having to call in to reset the card once a month.


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## craigo

BrianAZ said:


> This is good to know. I also had *AWFUL* synch issues with S cards which forced me to move to the M card. It was a choice between horrible synch most of the time and having to call in to reset the card once a month.


I don't know...For me, I hated losing channels with the M-cards so I went back to the S-cards. Like I said in my previous post, the audio/sync issues were only on a couple of SD channels and we rarely watched those anyways. Thankfully, we have no issues with HD channels which we watch all the time.


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## saibari

craigo said:


> I don't know...For me, I hated losing channels with the M-cards so I went back to the S-cards. Like I said in my previous post, the audio/sync issues were only on a couple of SD channels and we rarely watched those anyways. Thankfully, we have no issues with HD channels which we watch all the time.


Yes, had I been in your shoes I too would have switched back to S-cards. But what Brian is saying is that he, like I did, had severe A/V synch problems on _lots_ of channels (including HD). The channels varied, so it was not consistently on one channel or another. At first, my problem was just on a couple of channels, but it got progressively worse until it affected a lot of the programs I watched (both recorded and live TV). That's when, in desperation and because Cox didn't seem to know what to do about it, I did some research, found these message boards and the M-card solution. I knew going in that the M-card had its own problems (at that time, graying out of channels every few days), but anything was better than the A/V synch issues I was having! Believe it or not, even this partial recording frustration isn't quite as bad...


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## saibari

andygriffith said:


> I guess the 12 hour goodness was a fluke. I tried recording American Chopper at 9 PM tonight and got a partial recording. Oh well.


Why don't you have Cox come out and switch out your M-card? That should provide some relief for a little while at least--it certainly can't get any worse than signal drops several times an hour as you were getting. ... If my problem gets much worse, I'll be having them out again for sure!


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## TiVoJerry

Hello all,

We continue to actively work on this issue with Cisco/Scientific Atlanta and Cox. We've been sending engineering managers to Phoenix as needed to work more closely with both companies. It seems to be isolated to the Arizona area for some reason. All companies involved are definitely taking this issue seriously, but it's taking longer than we'd anticipated to resolve. 

We will keep people who have reported any issues to us posted as we make more progress in the process. We apologize for the frustration you are experiencing and are doing our best to drive towards a resolution as quickly as possible.


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## Rolow

Thank you for the update.


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## rtmcmjr

I live in Ahwatukee and have been getting the 161-38 error for months now. Cox has been out many times to change cards and there error always comes back.


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## saibari

rtmcmjr said:


> I live in Ahwatukee and have been getting the 161-38 error for months now. Cox has been out many times to change cards and there error always comes back.


Join the club, rt. At least now it seems Cox, TiVo & Cisco (Scientific Atlanta) are taking the problem seriously and making a concerted effort to find a solution. Hopefully we won't have to put up with this much longer. In the meantime, I'd keep calling Cox out to swap out your cable card whenever the problem gets to an especially untolerable level ... that's what I plan on doing, anyway...


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## rtmcmjr

TiVoJerry said:


> Hello all,
> 
> We continue to actively work on this issue with Cisco/Scientific Atlanta and Cox. We've been sending engineering managers to Phoenix as needed to work more closely with both companies. It seems to be isolated to the Arizona area for some reason. All companies involved are definitely taking this issue seriously, but it's taking longer than we'd anticipated to resolve.
> 
> We will keep people who have reported any issues to us posted as we make more progress in the process. We apologize for the frustration you are experiencing and are doing our best to drive towards a resolution as quickly as possible.


I am in Phoenix and I am constantly getting the 161-38 for the past 45 days. Also, in the past 45 days I've had 3 new M cards installed. The error always comes back.

*Here is my question ...* why can't the HD Tivo use a Coax or HDMI out from a Cox Cable box. That would eliminate all these issues nation wide with the cable cards. It's quite obvious that the Cable companies don't want us using Tivo, they would much rather be getting our 18.00 a month for their own DVR. I realize this would limit to single threaded recordings, however, I'd be happier customer than I am now.

I have been a Tivo customer for years. I have 2 Series 2 and 1 HD Series 3 in my house. The Series 2 with the cable box is rock solid. Seriously, no exaggeration her. Cox has been to my house at least 10 times since January for the HD Tivo Box. I just don't know how much longer I can deal with this. Last week were on vacation and bunch of stuff didn't record because of the cable card, is that not the whole reason people use DVRs? We had to catch on our shows using Hulu.


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## JayBird

I'm glad to see somebody from TiVo providing some sort of official update to this issue. That being said, another "they're working on it" response isn't softening the blow of the issue at hand.

My wife was just watching an episode of Jon and Kate plus 8 live on TLC (42) where she was all the way behind in the live buffer, and we experienced an error which, interestingly enough didn't pop up the usual cable card error screen, but did cause the screen to go black for the better part of a minute, followed by losing everything in the live buffer. It stayed on live TV, on the same channel, but threw away the live buffer and resumed where it was caught up to real time. Needless to say, that didn't go over very well...


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## saibari

rtmcmjr said:


> I am in Phoenix and I am constantly getting the 161-38 for the past 45 days. Also, in the past 45 days I've had 3 new M cards installed. The error always comes back.
> 
> *Here is my question ...* why can't the HD Tivo use a Coax or HDMI out from a Cox Cable box. That would eliminate all these issues nation wide with the cable cards. It's quite obvious that the Cable companies don't want us using Tivo, they would much rather be getting our 18.00 a month for their own DVR. I realize this would limit to single threaded recordings, however, I'd be happier customer than I am now.
> 
> I have been a Tivo customer for years. I have 2 Series 2 and 1 HD Series 3 in my house. The Series 2 with the cable box is rock solid. Seriously, no exaggeration her. Cox has been to my house at least 10 times since January for the HD Tivo Box. I just don't know how much longer I can deal with this. Last week were on vacation and bunch of stuff didn't record because of the cable card, is that not the whole reason people use DVRs? We had to catch on our shows using Hulu.


Wow RT, you and I could be twins! We're both in Ahwatukee, both have had Cox out umpteen times, and both went on vacation (me in mid July) and missed a bunch of recordings. <sigh> Yes, it's crazy but, like I said, I'm hoping that a solution is now in sight... You know, the last time I had Cox out (2 weeks ago) the tech said he had just been to a neighbor's house down the street for the same issue. Maybe it was you!


----------



## rtmcmjr

saibari said:


> Wow RT, you and I could be twins! We're both in Ahwatukee, both have had Cox out umpteen times, and both went on vacation (me in mid July) and missed a bunch of recordings. <sigh> Yes, it's crazy but, like I said, I'm hoping that a solution is now in sight... You know, the last time I had Cox out (2 weeks ago) the tech said he had just been to a neighbor's house down the street for the same issue. Maybe it was you!


That is really funny ... I love back by the post office in the foothills. I had Cox put in a new card yesterday. Got the 161-38 error again today and they are coming back on Monday. I'm going to be a royal pain in their ass until this is resolved. I work from home so they can come everyday as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## rtmcmjr

JayBird said:


> I'm glad to see somebody from TiVo providing some sort of official update to this issue. That being said, another "they're working on it" response isn't softening the blow of the issue at hand.
> 
> My wife was just watching an episode of Jon and Kate plus 8 live on TLC (42) where she was all the way behind in the live buffer, and we experienced an error which, interestingly enough didn't pop up the usual cable card error screen, but did cause the screen to go black for the better part of a minute, followed by losing everything in the live buffer. It stayed on live TV, on the same channel, but threw away the live buffer and resumed where it was caught up to real time. Needless to say, that didn't go over very well...


This happens all the time to us ... we get the Cable Card Error screen with the 161-38 error over top program we are watching. Then you have to press the left cursor button to clear the error. I'll take a digital picture of it next time.


----------



## rtmcmjr

LOL ... would you know after only a few minutes of posting the above thread the error happened again. Keep in mind this Cable Card has only been in my Tivo for 24 hours. Attached is a screen print of the error.


----------



## mzwahlen

rtmcmjr said:


> LOL ... would you know after only a few minutes of posting the above thread the error happened again. Keep in mind this Cable Card has only been in my Tivo for 24 hours.


I get the same occurance all the time and I live in Casa Grande...have only had HD out this way for a little over a Month...and have had this problem the whole time.


----------



## BrianAZ

TiVoJerry said:


> Hello all,
> 
> We continue to actively work on this issue with Cisco/Scientific Atlanta and Cox. We've been sending engineering managers to Phoenix as needed to work more closely with both companies. It seems to be isolated to the Arizona area for some reason. All companies involved are definitely taking this issue seriously, but it's taking longer than we'd anticipated to resolve.
> 
> We will keep people who have reported any issues to us posted as we make more progress in the process. We apologize for the frustration you are experiencing and are doing our best to drive towards a resolution as quickly as possible.


Thanks for providing an update Jerry. Do you know if it's possible to revert those of us in Phoenix to the firmware prior to 301? Sure, we had to call in once a month to have them reset things, but at least we could watch/record the majority of the time.


----------



## TiVoJerry

BrianAZ said:


> Thanks for providing an update Jerry. Do you know if it's possible to revert those of us in Phoenix to the firmware prior to 301? Sure, we had to call in once a month to have them reset things, but at least we could watch/record the majority of the time.


I know that it is technically possible to roll firmware back as a whole but hard to target to specific units. I, personally, was not in on those discussions to know more detail than that. I know that this is still being looked at with Cox alongside the effort to resolve the problems.


----------



## moyekj

rtmcmjr said:


> *Here is my question ...* why can't the HD Tivo use a Coax or HDMI out from a Cox Cable box. That would eliminate all these issues nation wide with the cable cards. It's quite obvious that the Cable companies don't want us using Tivo, they would much rather be getting our 18.00 a month for their own DVR. I realize this would limit to single threaded recordings, however, I'd be happier customer than I am now.


 HDMI is not technically possible to capture (at a reasonable cost) since you are talking about uncompressed video at >= 3GB/sec, so forget that idea. Component is analog so that means Tivo would have to do real-time encoding to mpeg2/mpeg4 (like Slingbox etc) which means a big compromise in picture quality and really no better than a series 2 Tivo.
Firewire would be the most reasonable since it outputs in compressed mpeg2 format and there are controls for channel changing the box via firewire (i.e. no IR blaster needed), but then again many cable boxes skirt the firewire requirement and don't work properly. Besides that, as you already mentioned you would need 2 cable boxes for 2 streams which makes the whole solution bulky and undesirable.


----------



## Roderigo

kulrythm said:


> My TiVo came with a piece of paper entitled "Getting Your HD and Premium Digital Cable Channels." On it it says:
> 
> In addition, on the TiVo website, when you go to "Shop" and click on "TiVo HD," the first section is entitled "Product Highlights." The third bullet down says "Replace your cable box using one or more CableCard decoders available from your cable company."


I would argue that the word "functioning" before cablecard decoders is implied.

I'll use another analogy: The cablecard decoders replace the cable box. If you have a series2, and a cable box, and your cable box stops working several times a day requiring you to power cycle it, and making your tivo useless, you're not going to complain to tivo. It's pretty black and white here. It's a bit grayer with cablecards, as there's a lot more interaction between the tivo and the cards, but it seems pretty clear that it's something going on with the cards, as tivos work just fine in many other systems (including running the exact same cablecard hardware/firmware in other cox cities), and the situation seems to have deteriorated with successive cablecard firmware upgrades.



kulrythm said:


> In my case, I have 5 days left in my 30 day return period, so I would really only be "out" $13 for one month of TiVo service, plus the cost of digital cable that I haven't been able to watch, plus whatever theoretical value could be place on the stress and inconvenience of dealing with the problem.


And, this is why tivo should care. They're losing business because you can't get cablecards that function the way they're supposed to.

And, my posts certainly don't mean to diminish your pain/frustration with the situation. I'd be pretty pissed if my tivo boxes weren't working.


----------



## rtmcmjr

moyekj said:


> HDMI is not technically possible to capture (at a reasonable cost) since you are talking about uncompressed video at >= 3GB/sec, so forget that idea.


 Ahhh... yes very smart .. I knew that was was not thinking when I wrote what I did.


moyekj said:


> Component is analog so that means Tivo would have to do real-time encoding to mpeg2/mpeg4 (like Slingbox etc) which means a big compromise in picture quality and really no better than a series 2 Tivo.
> Firewire would be the most reasonable since it outputs in compressed mpeg2 format and there are controls for channel changing the box via firewire (i.e. no IR blaster needed), but then again many cable boxes skirt the firewire requirement and don't work properly. Besides that, as you already mentioned you would need 2 cable boxes for 2 streams which makes the whole solution bulky and undesirable.


Well said and you are right .... the 2 cable boxes I knew ... pesonally I think the cable companies are just out to kill Tivo. They have no incentive for it work.

The only real end to this problem nationwide if for the cable companies to agree to work with Tivo very cooperatively. Now there may be some of that going on behind the scenese, however, when you call Cox support and mention Tivo you may as well be asking about Rocket Science because the telephone help desk does not know squat about Tivo.

Check this out .. when I called Cox today to have them come replace my card again I ask the girl "Can you look up the the cable card error 161-38 in your system to see if comes up ... " she did and nothing even showed up and she had no interest in typing in what I was saying to document it.


----------



## rtmcmjr

Roderigo said:


> I'll use another analogy: The cablecard decoders replace the cable box. If you have a series2, and a cable box, and your cable box stops working several times a day requiring you to power cycle it, and making your tivo useless, you're not going to complain to tivo. It's pretty black and white here. It's a bit grayer with cablecards, as there's a lot more interaction between the tivo and the cards, but it seems pretty clear that it's something going on with the cards, as tivos work just fine in many other systems (including running the exact same cablecard hardware/firmware in other cox cities), and the situation seems to have deteriorated with successive cablecard firmware upgrades.


I agree 100% this is a problem between Cable Card Makers and the Cable Companies. Their systems do not know how to work together properly yet is what I believe. Furthermore, they have no real incentive to spend money to make them work together. Let's face it, as cable card users we are a very small percentage of their customer base.

Unfortunately, Tivo is at their mercy. In my case I'm not sure how much longer I'm willing to live with the problems. My only alternative for resolution at this point is a Cox DVR in which case I will end up adding additional hardware like Apple TV to get my Internet Shows I like watching.

DREAM WORLD SCENARIO ====> The Cable Companies and Tivo come to a deal where the Tivo software is licensed for their DVR devices


----------



## rtmcmjr

TiVoJerry said:


> I know that it is technically possible to roll firmware back as a whole but hard to target to specific units. I, personally, was not in on those discussions to know more detail than that. I know that this is still being looked at with Cox alongside the effort to resolve the problems.


Jerry ... seriously .. thanks for your efforts in this and hopefully we can figure it out.


----------



## BrianAZ

rtmcmjr said:


> Check this out .. when I called Cox today to have them come replace my card again I ask the girl "Can you look up the the cable card error 161-38 in your system to see if comes up ... " she did and nothing even showed up and she had no interest in typing in what I was saying to document it.


I went through this same thing with a supervisor about 3 months ago. I asked the guy that if *HE* knew how to unpair, repair, hit my card, why didn't the first guy I talked to know how? He said that while they do have a searchable knowledge base for their CSRs, there was a management decision to *NOT ADD* this particular piece of information because they "weren't sure why this action would fix the issue, so we want to find that out before doing it to everyone that calls".

I told him that was ridiculous and to please pass my comments up the chain.


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> Why don't you have Cox come out and switch out your M-card? That should provide some relief for a little while at least--it certainly can't get any worse than signal drops several times an hour as you were getting. ... If my problem gets much worse, I'll be having them out again for sure!


I had them come out and do that once already. During the install process it upgrades the firmware to the 301 version. Within a hour of the new M card being installed, I had a reset. Since this is not a hardware issue, I think it is a waste of time having them come out and replace the cards. Unlike you, I saw no benefit when having it replaced. Maybe it would be different if the cards came with the old firmware and it took a few days before it "upgraded", but that isn't the case, at least not in my experience.


----------



## andygriffith

TiVoJerry said:


> Hello all,
> 
> We continue to actively work on this issue with Cisco/Scientific Atlanta and Cox. We've been sending engineering managers to Phoenix as needed to work more closely with both companies. It seems to be isolated to the Arizona area for some reason. All companies involved are definitely taking this issue seriously, but it's taking longer than we'd anticipated to resolve.
> 
> We will keep people who have reported any issues to us posted as we make more progress in the process. We apologize for the frustration you are experiencing and are doing our best to drive towards a resolution as quickly as possible.


TiVoJerry,

Thanks for the update, please keep them coming. If you guys need more testers, I am sure many here would volunteer, including me. Just PM me if I can help test new firmware versions.


----------



## andygriffith

rtmcmjr said:


> DREAM WORLD SCENARIO ====> The Cable Companies and Tivo come to a deal where the Tivo software is licensed for their DVR devices


http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=76341&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=900364&

They are testing it back East. Personally, I think the existing hardware that the cable companies use is inferior to the stuff TiVo uses, especially where upgradeability is concerned.


----------



## moyekj

rtmcmjr said:


> Ahhh... yes very smart .. I knew that was was not thinking when I wrote what I did.
> 
> Well said and you are right .... the 2 cable boxes I knew ... pesonally I think the cable companies are just out to kill Tivo. They have no incentive for it work.
> 
> The only real end to this problem nationwide if for the cable companies to agree to work with Tivo very cooperatively. Now there may be some of that going on behind the scenese, however, when you call Cox support and mention Tivo you may as well be asking about Rocket Science because the telephone help desk does not know squat about Tivo.
> 
> Check this out .. when I called Cox today to have them come replace my card again I ask the girl "Can you look up the the cable card error 161-38 in your system to see if comes up ... " she did and nothing even showed up and she had no interest in typing in what I was saying to document it.


 I hear you. I know it's hard to do given your current circumstances, but you have to keep in mind that the Tivo S3/THD units actually do work as intended without problems in many cable headends across the country, including most Cox headends. The big challenge is that there are really no well defined standards and each headend can do things slightly differently which makes things very difficult for companies like Tivo to design into. Heck, even Motorola and Scientific Atlanta/Cisco for years have suffered similar problems where their set top boxes work fine in some places but not in others. Before my S3 Tivos I used the Motorola DCT6412/DCT6416/DCH3416 series of DVR boxes and there were countless firmware updates all the time intended to fix problems here and there, and many of them were for localized headend problems. 1 problem in particular in addtion to a firmware update involved my local headend having to tweak some of their channels to avoid "tiling" issues for some HD channels when tuned with the Moto boxes.
So this is really nothing new for cable companies - Tivo is just yet another thorn in their side to deal with along with their other set top box providers.


----------



## NSlikster

I too am having this issue. Ray/Rural region of Chandler, AZ, new Tivo HD Series 3, New HD Service from Cox (missing my old cable box terribly right now with those little dongles and slow channel changes, and all). 

While I see there is potential hope in the not too distant future, and that there are a lot of factors to this issue, I do have one beef with Tivo right now. Why, oh why, OH WHY...did the change to stop recording automtaically when no signal is detected ever get implemented? If we could just turn that back on, maybe instead of ending up with dozens upon dozens of partial recordings, at least we'd in many cases only lose a minute or two of our shows? 

When I first got my Tivo series 2 unit a few years back, if a show cut out, or if you're cable was down, the recording would be 1-60 minutes (or more) of black screen. In a case like this loss of cable signal for a minute or two, having that feature (that's what I think of it as now) BACK would be sooooooo nice! Having all your recordings in progress just stop is almost worse than the short term loss of cable signal. 

PLEASE...Put the ability back into the software to turn this on... For the LOVE OF GOD!


----------



## andygriffith

NSlikster said:


> I too am having this issue. Ray/Rural region of Chandler, AZ, new Tivo HD Series 3, New HD Service from Cox (missing my old cable box terribly right now with those little dongles and slow channel changes, and all).
> 
> While I see there is potential hope in the not too distant future, and that there are a lot of factors to this issue, I do have one beef with Tivo right now. Why, oh why, OH WHY...did the change to stop recording automtaically when no signal is detected ever get implemented? If we could just turn that back on, maybe instead of ending up with dozens upon dozens of partial recordings, at least we'd in many cases only lose a minute or two of our shows?
> 
> When I first got my Tivo series 2 unit a few years back, if a show cut out, or if you're cable was down, the recording would be 1-60 minutes (or more) of black screen. In a case like this loss of cable signal for a minute or two, having that feature (that's what I think of it as now) BACK would be sooooooo nice! Having all your recordings in progress just stop is almost worse than the short term loss of cable signal.
> 
> PLEASE...Put the ability back into the software to turn this on... For the LOVE OF GOD!


Good point, this problem would far less painful if the TiVo would continue to record.


----------



## saibari

rtmcmjr said:


> ... Let's face it, as cable card users we are a very small percentage of their customer base.
> 
> Unfortunately, Tivo is at their mercy. In my case I'm not sure how much longer I'm willing to live with the problems. My only alternative for resolution at this point is a Cox DVR in which case I will end up adding additional hardware like Apple TV to get my Internet Shows I like watching....


Oh please don't do that--that would just be rewarding them! If I end up throwing in the towel I'll check out DirecTV, Dish, satellite... anything but Cox!


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> Oh please don't do that--that would just be rewarding them! If I end up throwing in the towel I'll check out DirecTV, Dish, satellite... anything but Cox!


But Cox is your friend in the digital age! harharhar!


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> I had them come out and do that once already. During the install process it upgrades the firmware to the 301 version. Within a hour of the new M card being installed, I had a reset. Since this is not a hardware issue, I think it is a waste of time having them come out and replace the cards. Unlike you, I saw no benefit when having it replaced. Maybe it would be different if the cards came with the old firmware and it took a few days before it "upgraded", but that isn't the case, at least not in my experience.


Well, it's true that the error-message does pop up again--in fact, I had it pop up once while the tech was still outside my house! I immediately called him back in and, after about another hour, he told me he had to refer my case to the "addressability" dept... But even though the error message popped up, my signal-drop problem did improve for a while. But you're right--I don't call them out until it gets really bad. The last time I had them out (2 weeks ago) was when I returned home from vacation and wasn't getting a signal at all on most channels... and the channels I _was_ getting were severely tiled.... Since then I've been getting signal drops anywhere from 2 to 6 times a day (that I know of). Luckily, it hasn't affected more than a handful of my recorded programs...but that's just the luck of the draw...


----------



## saibari

NSlikster said:


> ... Why, oh why, OH WHY...did the change to stop recording automtaically when no signal is detected ever get implemented? If we could just turn that back on, maybe instead of ending up with dozens upon dozens of partial recordings, at least we'd in many cases only lose a minute or two of our shows?
> 
> When I first got my Tivo series 2 unit a few years back, if a show cut out, or if you're cable was down, the recording would be 1-60 minutes (or more) of black screen. In a case like this loss of cable signal for a minute or two, having that feature (that's what I think of it as now) BACK would be sooooooo nice! Having all your recordings in progress just stop is almost worse than the short term loss of cable signal.
> 
> PLEASE...Put the ability back into the software to turn this on... For the LOVE OF GOD!


Now wouldn't _that_ be nice?! Since the signal drop is usually for only a few seconds to less than a minute, the program wouldn't be severely affected if it just kept recording. That would make this situation merely annoying and we could certainly live with it until a solution was found. I wonder if it's possible for TiVo to give us back that capability?


----------



## saibari

aztivo said:


> I have now been about a month with no drop channels or loss of signal. I have the S3 and the HD when the tech came out he went to the box on the house took it off and put a bigger one in so the cables werent touching. then he put the cable on its own line so it doenst share the phone and internet feed to the house. I have a signal booster that he put in. Sence this time I have had no problems
> 
> BTW this is at ray and cooper


Hi aztivo, You posted this on 8/3... are you still trouble-free?


----------



## andygriffith

I haven't had a reset for over 15 hours, which is by far a new record for me. I recorded the opening ceremonies without a problem last night. I am attempting to do a lot of recording today too, so I will see how that goes.

It will probably reset as soon as I post this.

Update: It just reset at 9:22.


----------



## NSlikster

Its reset for me like 3 times in the past 12 hours. Just happened again at 10:32 am.


----------



## bowlingblogger

Just to rub it in, mine also reset right around 10:30 am.


----------



## andygriffith

bowlingblogger said:


> Just to rub it in, mine also reset right around 10:30 am.


Mine bounced again at 11:18 AM


----------



## aztivo

saibari said:


> Hi aztivo, You posted this on 8/3... are you still trouble-free?


I am still going well on my S3 This morning I noticed the THD showed the 161-38 error but I hit clear and havent seen any problems since then!!


----------



## JayBird

I went through the backlog of our Now Playing list today, and found several dozen additional recordings that were partial recordings that I hadn't noticed previously...

Also, last night while I was out, my wife was watching a movie live, running almost the whole live buffer behind, when she encountered another glitch where the screen went blank, the info banner appeared stating no program info, and then after a minute or so, the banner came back again with the correct program info, but, of course, having thrown out the live buffer and resuming live TV all caught up. Needless to say, she wasn't very happy about that when I got home...


----------



## andygriffith

My TiVo was going strong all day after the 11:18 AM reset. The video stopped just now and the TiVo rebooted, that was a first.


----------



## NSlikster

I was having issues all day. Seemed like every 2 hours (9:30, 11:30, 1:45) I had an interruption to signal. But then it all seemed to stabilize in the evening. I went out to dinner with friends and wife, and when we got back, there was a message from TiVo saying a lineup change had occurred. I now recieve FSNAZ HD (which I was suprised a few days ago I wasn't recieving) as I thought it showed up in the list of channels I was supposed to get. The issues have kept me from thinking about much else with respect to TV setup. 

Everything seems to have stabilized after the change though. I wonder if it was related. Anyone else get a lineup change? I don't know how that works (automatic when a new channel is detected by Tivo or if its planned in advance).


----------



## saibari

aztivo said:


> I am still going well on my S3 This morning I noticed the THD showed the 161-38 error but I hit clear and havent seen any problems since then!!


Thanks for the update. The fact that the THD showed the 161-38 error leads me to believe the problem isn't solved, but that you've just been lucky. <sigh> At any rate, if my problems get worse and I have Cox out again, I'll ask them to do what you reported the Cox tech did for you last time that seems to have given you such a long run of good luck!


----------



## aztivo

NSlikster said:


> I was having issues all day. Seemed like every 2 hours (9:30, 11:30, 1:45) I had an interruption to signal. But then it all seemed to stabilize in the evening. I went out to dinner with friends and wife, and when we got back, there was a message from TiVo saying a lineup change had occurred. I now recieve FSNAZ HD (which I was suprised a few days ago I wasn't recieving) as I thought it showed up in the list of channels I was supposed to get. The issues have kept me from thinking about much else with respect to TV setup.
> 
> Everything seems to have stabilized after the change though. I wonder if it was related. Anyone else get a lineup change? I don't know how that works (automatic when a new channel is detected by Tivo or if its planned in advance).


FSNAZ HD has been here for a long time there just is no guide data as they only play the D-backs games and the rest of the time it is the tunning bars


----------



## andygriffith

After the reboot last night, mine ran solid until 1:23 PM today. I got the 161-38 error. That error code had to be defined somewhere by someone, why can't we get more information on the error code?


----------



## andygriffith

Is anyone else seeing more stability? I have had two issues in the past 48 hours, one was the mysterious reboot and one was the typical CableCard error.


----------



## andygriffith

I had a CableCard reset soon after my previous post. Regardless, I have seen a big improvement over what I was seeing for a long time. Hopefully they are making some progress.


----------



## JayBird

My wife turned on the TV this morning, to see the TiVo launch into a firmware upgrade. Hoping that this was the long awaited fix, I told her not to touch it and let it do it's thing (much to her dismay, since she wanted to watch TV).

It fairly quickly loaded the first 99% of the firmware image, but then got stuck at 99% for a long time. When it ultimately got the final block of data, it then indicated "flashing starts", and then dropped back to Live TV (which didn't work since the firmware was in the process of being upgraded, so the screen was black). I saw the info banner go back and forth between the correct info and no information several times, and then it restarted the firmware upgrade all over again (started over downloading the firmware image).

Seeing that this looked like the firmware upgrade loop others have seen before, this time I waited until it dropped back to the Live TV screen, and quickly hit channel up a couple times (it had been on 703). After that it didn't start into a firmware upgrade again, so I went to the cable card menus and checked the firmware version, and it's still the 301 version.

Not sure what triggered the firmware update loop (and, for all I know, it had been in the loop all night), but it doesn't appear to be an attempt to update it with a fix.

Did anybody else see this today?


----------



## Kershek

Most of my olympics recordings are still getting cut off. I missed the swimming finals


----------



## saibari

Well, my cable is totally out now--not just the TiVo but my cable box and direct cable too! <sigh> Anyway, I got an update from my friendly Cox customer service rep today. The upshot is they're still researching it and she reassured me that the three companies would be meeting in Phoenix twice weekly, but it's going to require LOTS of research--translation: still no ETA on a solution!


----------



## JayBird

saibari said:


> ... and she reassured me that the three companies would be meeting in Phoenix twice weekly ...


_*Twice weekly?*_

Are you kidding?

This is the sort of problem that should have engineers from all three companies working here *full-time* until the problem is resolved, not just holding meetings twice a week. *TiVo, you should be ashamed* at this *pathetic *level of commitment to getting this problem resolved. Why don't you have people here *24/7* working on resolving this problem?

With the current rev of the cable card firmware, our TiVo HDs here in AZ are *completely unreliable to perform their most basic function of recording programs*. That level of failure of your product to function, especially when it affects *every *customer with a TiVo HD in a major metropolitan area, should be an absolute show stopper where every available engineering resource from all companies involved is thrown at the problem until it's fixed. And since TiVo has the most to lose in this whole mess, TiVo should be the one driving all three companies involved to get this fixed *immediately*.



TiVoJerry said:


> We continue to actively work on this issue with Cisco/Scientific Atlanta and Cox. We've been sending *engineering managers* to Phoenix as needed to work more closely with both companies. It seems to be isolated to the Arizona area for some reason. All companies involved are definitely taking this issue seriously, but it's taking longer than we'd anticipated to resolve.


Perhaps if TiVo sent actual _*engineers*_ here instead of just _*engineering managers*_, we'd see a little more progress on this issue. I'm thinking it's "taking longer than they anticipated to resolve" because all they are doing is having managers hold a meeting twice a week.

At this point I've lost all faith that we will see any sort of fix to this problem anytime in the near future. Contrary to TiVoJerry's statement, I really question just how seriously this issue is really being taken by any of the companies involved. Having a bunch of managers hold a meeting twice a week is not my idea of being committed to fixing the problem.

It's completely *unacceptable *that TiVo hasn't made a much bigger commitment to getting this resolved. I've loved TiVo since I got my first Series 1 back in 2000, but since I "upgraded" to a TiVo HD, I've been so incredibly disappointed with all the problems and TiVo's pathetic support, that I'm ready to throw in the towel and say goodbye to TiVo.


----------



## saibari

JayBird said:


> saibari said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... and she reassured me that the three companies would be meeting in Phoenix twice weekly ...QUOTE]
> 
> _*Twice weekly?*_
> 
> Are you kidding?
> 
> This is the sort of problem that should have engineers from all three companies working here *full-time* until the problem is resolved, not just holding meetings twice a week. *TiVo, you should be ashamed* at this *pathetic *level of commitment to getting this problem resolved. Why don't you have people here *24/7* working on resolving this problem? ...
> 
> ...At this point I've lost all faith that we will see any sort of fix to this problem anytime in the near future. Contrary to TiVoJerry's statement, I really question just how seriously this issue is really being taken by any of the companies involved. Having a bunch of managers hold a meeting twice a week is not my idea of being committed to fixing the problem.
> 
> It's completely *unacceptable *that TiVo hasn't made a much bigger commitment to getting this resolved. ...
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more, JayBird! Don't know why I didn't express that with the customer service rep, but I'm supposed to be hearing back from her or her supervisor later today so I'll certainly address this issue then. I also plan on calling TiVo and registering a complaint with them too. I've not called them in some time about this...
> 
> But right now I'm on hold with Cox because since the cable outage earlier today, my cable box is back to normal but guess what? * I am now experiencing the "gray-screen on some channels" problem again!* It seems to be affecting some of my HD channels... like 728, 729, but not 712 or 715. Not sure what this means--does it mean I'll no longer have the partial recording problem and I'm back to the "losing some channels every two to three days" problem? Aaaaaaargh! This is just crazy! And of course, a signal hit and re-boot is not solving the problem so a tech needs to come out and they can't get someone out here until Wed.
Click to expand...


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## NSlikster

I was warned about cablecards and the TiVo HD. If I hadn't already ordered the HD, I probably would've just gone with DirectTV (been wanting the NFL package for a while anyway). The trouble is, I just love the TiVo interface. I've only been effected by this issue for 5 days. But my understanding is that his has been going on A LONG, LONG TIME. I still have like 20 days to return the TiVo. But I keep hoping someone comes up with a fix. Seems like this isn't just a TiVo issue. I've always been a strong proponent of DRM that punishes legitimate customers more than the thieves. This is amost certainly just such an example.

However, I'll repeat: TiVo, why don't these interrupted recording pick back up after the reset? This is making the issue about 100x's worse than just a cable outage. If I can't rely on my TiVo to record my shows, in their entirety, cable outage and all, what good is it? Its a $300 dollar video clip maker at this point with a monthly charge. If that one item can be fixed, I bet a lot of folks will be much more patiently awaiting a permanent fix to the cable card issue.


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## Supermurph

JayBird said:


> My wife turned on the TV this morning, to see the TiVo launch into a firmware upgrade. Hoping that this was the long awaited fix, I told her not to touch it and let it do it's thing (much to her dismay, since she wanted to watch TV).
> 
> Seeing that this looked like the firmware upgrade loop others have seen before, this time I waited until it dropped back to the Live TV screen, and quickly hit channel up a couple times (it had been on 703). After that it didn't start into a firmware upgrade again, so I went to the cable card menus and checked the firmware version, and it's still the 301 version.
> 
> Not sure what triggered the firmware update loop (and, for all I know, it had been in the loop all night), but it doesn't appear to be an attempt to update it with a fix.
> 
> Did anybody else see this today?


I got this same firmware upgrade message around 7:30 this morning. I was about to go to work and just left it. When I got home tonight, I checked the firmware and it is still "301". So, I restarted the Tivo to see if it did anything and it did not.

Separate with that, I have noticed that the freezes are less frequent. I have a lot of kids show set to record during the day to keep a recycling list of shows for my toddler and none of them were partial from today. I didn't check everything from the weekend, but the few things that mattered (including the entire Olympics Opening Ceremony from Friday) recorded uninterrupted.

Maybe coincidence ...... maybe not.

No attempt at happy pep talk today. ;-)


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## cam026

So add me to the list of very unhappy TIVO HD owners in phx. 

I also saw this message today. I just finished one of my many calls with Cox and they said there was no CC firmware upgrade in the queue, but that the SA HD box went through a firmware upgrade last night. They suspected this is what caused the message. They also said no immediate fix or tuning adapter in the near future but they are offering a special on their internal HD DVR, with a 10% discount.

I don't know TIVO Jerry, but I have been seeing your "we're doing everything to solve this issue" posts since the HD TIVO was released in phx. I really do not believe a word you write.

TIVO is done for me. Time to put ole yeller to sleep. I think they are more interested in selling market data now than keeping their loyal customer's happy.


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## herbma

We live in the Las Sendas area of Mesa and have had a lot of the issues listed in the other posts with our Tivo Series 3 HD, but we have had no problems with our Tivo HD. Both have the same multi stream cards except there are the two in the Tivo HD that act as singles. Recently some of the dropped recordings on the Tivo Series 3 HD are less frequent but they are still happening. We're going to continue to call the customer support number. Tivo already replaced our Tivo Series 3 HD once and we had to pay for the shipping to return it. Cox has replaced cablecards about 4 times.


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## saibari

herbma said:


> We live in the Las Sendas area of Mesa and have had a lot of the issues listed in the other posts with our Tivo Series 3 HD, but we have had no problems with our Tivo HD. Both have the same multi stream cards except there are the two in the Tivo HD that act as singles. Recently some of the dropped recordings on the Tivo Series 3 HD are less frequent but they are still happening.


I think you may be confused. I recently had this cleared up for me (hopefully _I'm_ not the one that's confused)--it is my understanding that Series 3 TiVo's are the ones that take two M-cards and TiVo-HD's use just one M-card. (For some reason though, on my online TiVo account records show me has having a Series 3). It also appears to be the case that the problems are mostly (if not exclusively?) with TiVo-HD's (though I could be wrong about that)...



herbma said:


> We're going to continue to call the customer support number. Tivo already replaced our Tivo Series 3 HD once and we had to pay for the shipping to return it. Cox has replaced cablecards about 4 times.


See, this is what _really_ burns me. When I called TiVo about these issues a while back, they offered to replace my unit as well. Why on earth do they offer this when they should know what's going on?! But it's clear their reps do not.  Luckily I did, and so I didn't take them up on their "kind" offer... Sheesh!


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## andygriffith

Aren't TiVo HD's considered Series 3 hardware, with smaller hard drives and a little less refined as far as the display's are concerned compared to the S3's?


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## BrianAZ

andygriffith said:


> Aren't TiVo HD's considered Series 3 hardware, with smaller hard drives and a little less refined as far as the display's are concerned compared to the S3's?


As far as I know, yes. I believe they have some minor enhancements above the S3 though such as MCard support and a few other things. I've not found a compelling reason to spend extra on the S3.


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## rtmcmjr

All,

I have posted in this thread several times and this situation is maddening. 

I am sorry to say that I finally relented and removed my Tivo HD Series 3 DVR and replaced with the less functional Cox Cable HD DVR. Why? Well I've documented many things in the previous posts if you want to read all the details of my problems. 

Let me just say that this weekend was the last straw. Sunday my wife and I were getting ready to watch a Gold Medal Olympic swimming event and the cable card went out AGAIN and we missed the race. I was totally upset by this and just said forget it. We've missed and lost so many shows trying to be patient with Cox/Tivo trying to solve this problem. But after 7 months and 10 visits by Cox to my house I threw in the towel.

I still have 2 Tivo Series 2 DVRs which I will continue to use in our bed rooms. But the HD Model that was in our family room with our nice LCD TV I removed because Cox cannot get their act together with the Cable Card decoders.

Final note: I spoke to a woman at Cox and this is what she told me. Because the Cox Cable Card is only a one way device (only receives data) and that their new on demand software is what is causing all the problems. The system is waiting for the devices to "talk back" and the cable cards don't talk back to them, hence, they end up getting dropped by the system. I have no idea of this is in fact true, but this is what the representative told me.


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## saibari

rtmcmjr said:


> ... I have posted in this thread several times and this situation is maddening.
> 
> I am sorry to say that I finally relented and removed my Tivo HD Series 3 DVR and replaced with the less functional Cox Cable HD DVR. ...


I hope that Cox is giving you the HD DVR at no cost since it's their fault you're having to resort to this. AND I hope that TiVo is crediting your service fee if you've paid in advance... Both are things you should demand if you haven't already. And...

Funny you should post this now as I was about to post the very same thing! I've been fighting with one issue or another since I installed my TiVo-HD in October '07. Now I'm dealing with _both_ the gray channel problem that we were all dealing with a few weeks ago (a subset of channels goes gray every 2-3 days) _and_ the intermittent signal loss problem (that causes partial recordings)!

Yesterday, I had several of my HD channels go gray (728 being one), but luckily ABC & NBC were fine. A re-boot and signal hit didn't solve the problem so Cox is scheduled to come out tomorrow to replace my card for the umpteenth time! Then...

Today--as if to help me finally make up my mind--I experienced the intermittent signal loss problem several times throughout the morning, causing me to lose my live buffer a couple of times. Luckily I was only half-watching the TV cuz I'm doing my work at the same time--but still _very_ frustrating! And...

As if that wasn't enough, I'm watching my soap just now on 715 (ABC) and _that_ channel goes gray during the last 10 minutes!! Interestingly, channel 728 is back. It appears the channels affected are changing at whim!

Aaaaaargh!  I really hate that I have to do this, not least of which because I've already paid for a year of TiVo service. Yes, they've agreed to tack on a year at no cost--but what good is that if I can't get reliable service?!! You can bet that I plan on calling TiVo this afternoon and giving them an earful.

And the only reason I'm sticking with Cox is because of the free HD-DVR (which they promised me until they get the TiVo problem fixed). I guess I'll find out now what the differences are between a TiVo and a Cox DVR <huge sigh> ...


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## JayBird

rtmcmjr said:


> I am sorry to say that I finally relented and removed my Tivo HD Series 3 DVR and replaced with the less functional Cox Cable HD DVR.
> 
> ...
> 
> We've missed and lost so many shows trying to be patient with Cox/Tivo trying to solve this problem. But after 7 months and 10 visits by Cox to my house I threw in the towel.
> 
> ...
> 
> But the HD Model that was in our family room with our nice LCD TV I removed because Cox cannot get their act together with the Cable Card decoders.


TiVo loses yet another customer due to this issue... How many more will it take before the problem gets resolved - or TiVo goes under?


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## rtmcmjr

saibari said:


> I hope that Cox is giving you the HD DVR at no cost since it's their fault you're having to resort to this. AND I hope that TiVo is crediting your service fee if you've paid in advance... Both are things you should demand if you haven't already. And...


Well I got partial good news. Cox is not giving me a FREE DVR. However, Tivo put my account on "hold" so that means my billing will stop, however, I will not lose my 6.95 a month price. You see I've had Tivo for so long that my additional Tivo's are only 6.95 month.

At this point I have no contracts or anything. I own all my Tivo's out right and have never had to sign a service agreement since my first one in 2002 

Hey we should have a beer sometime, I'm in Ahwatukee also. Just out of curiosity ... what area are you in. I'm curious to see if we are on the same Cox node. I'm in the neighborhood across from the Foothills Post Office.


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## rtmcmjr

JayBird said:


> TiVo loses yet another customer due to this issue... How many more will it take before the problem gets resolved - or TiVo goes under?


It really stinks .... the biggest thing I'll miss is the Internet TV. I had Tivo download several Internet shows via Podcasts that I watched every week. I'll have to find some other device like a Apple Mini or something to hook up to my TV for Internet television.


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## BrianAZ

rtmcmjr said:


> It really stinks .... the biggest thing I'll miss is the Internet TV. I had Tivo download several Internet shows via Podcasts that I watched every week. I'll have to find some other device like a Apple Mini or something to hook up to my TV for Internet television.


I have a DLink DSM520. It has something similar called ActiveTV. It doesn't work very well for me but I think it's because my server is crappy. I hope to upgrade it in the coming weeks to a full HTPC. I'll give ActiveTV another try then. The device's main purpose (which works great) is for me to stream various downloaded TV shows/movies from my server to the different rooms in my house (at least until Tivo finally implements this in one of their boxes).


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## Kershek

rtmcmjr said:


> Let me just say that this weekend was the last straw. Sunday my wife and I were getting ready to watch a Gold Medal Olympic swimming event and the cable card went out AGAIN and we missed the race. I was totally upset by this and just said forget it. We've missed and lost so many shows trying to be patient with Cox/Tivo trying to solve this problem. But after 7 months and 10 visits by Cox to my house I threw in the towel.


I totally understand. Several of my Olympics recordings have been cut short. Also, I was watching the NASCAR race live on Sunday when the cablecard went out about 10 seconds before a huge wreck that brought out a red flag. One minute I'm watching a race, and then several minutes later when it comes back, I see all the wreckage and I'm thinking, "whoa, what did I miss? Damn Cox!"

It's really bad right now, and I expect to see more people like you who, understandably, jump ship. Meanwhile, Cox doesn't mind because you ended up paying them *more* money to rent their equipment.


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## JayBird

Kershek said:


> Meanwhile, Cox doesn't mind because you ended up paying them *more* money to rent their equipment.


If you decide to bail out on TiVo, don't let Cox win by renting their DVR. If you do, then you are just supporting Cox's alienation of cable card customers.


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## BrianAZ

JayBird said:


> If you decide to bail out on TiVo, don't let Cox win by renting their DVR. If you do, then you are just supporting Cox's alienation of cable card customers.


DITTO! Cox appears to be open to providing "free" units if you complain loud enough. I suggest that route as it keeps the pressure on them.


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## Kershek

I agree, but Cox is the only game in town unless you go satellite, which is a whole different ball of wax.


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## NSlikster

My cablecard/TiVo have reset themselves numerous times today (not a TiVo reboot, just a reset with ended recording or partail, loss of live tv buffer, reset of second tuner to same channel as is currently tuned on other tuner and error # message concerning signal loss). All the signs of a CableCard reset. Probably 5 or 6 times today (in the past 12 hours). 

I just don't get it. My signal is like 93% - 100% and the picture comes in crystal clear when its working. Almost no digital breakdown whatsoever. It never changes by more than 1%, I've been looking at it, scanning through channels at various times, and just wondering what could possibly be making this happen. When the cable installer came out, he said I'd probably have to call in every 1-3 months to have signal resent (to restore cablecard authorization status), but not that I'd have outages every 1-2 hours on some days, and other days where it would go strong all day without a hitch.

He also said that soon an adapter would be out that would fix the one-way communication thing. By all accounts, this is the Tuner Card thing for SDV. I don't know if that will really fix this, but if so, make it happen...PLEASE! The installer seemed to think this was the device to make all of these CableCard problems go away.

TiVo/Cox/Scientific Atlanta, whomever is to blame, I don't care, but please, just fix this issue once and for all. And how about owning up to the issue and posting some information on your web sites instead of quietly pretending like everything is fine, even if we really are only a small subset of your customers.

This is really trying my patience. Not least of which is that if I call any of these folks and ask for help, I'll just be jumping through hoops because no one is really aware of what the status of the fix is. Honestly, I could have TiVo promise to get back to me, Cox out to test the lines, but I know that is not the problem, and with my work schedule, any of these options I can't just repeat day in and day out.

And Tivo...How about that keep recording option, even in the midst of an outage thing? A statement...something? Maybe there are legal issues I'm not aware of that make this not possible? I can't think of any other reason (non-technical anyway) for why this would not be possible. Is there some agreement with cable companies, or with content providers, or Hollywood that state that if a signal cannot be authenticated, then STOP recording or face legal actions. Honestly, a couple of minutes of lost program recording here and there would not irk me as much as NEVER being able to trust my TiVo to record my favorite shows.


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## BrianAZ

NSlikster said:


> ...When the cable installer came out, he said I'd probably have to call in every 1-3 months to have signal resent (to restore cablecard authorization status), but not that I'd have outages every 1-2 hours on some days, and other days where it would go strong all day without a hitch...


This was true until July 1 when Cox rolled out firmware 301 to all cablecards in Phoenix. Prior to July 1, you would "lose your channels" maybe once a week. The vast majority of these events went unnoticed. Additionally, after approximately a month, the channels would not come back (search for SubExpireTime for more details on that) and you would have to call Cox and find a CSR who was not a mindless drone to fix it for you. It often required escalating to a supervisor and debating with them on the need for a truck roll/card replacement (which never fixed anything.. just cost everyone involved time and money).

Since the July 1 firmware update, the monthly authorization issue is fixed but the "lost channels" frequency has increased exponentially.


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## rtmcmjr

JayBird said:


> If you decide to bail out on TiVo, don't let Cox win by renting their DVR. If you do, then you are just supporting Cox's alienation of cable card customers.


Yes this is true ... but at some point in time I have to quit wrestling with this and enjoy the 2500.00 TV I purchased in January. I decided that time as come.


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## jebbbz

After a quick search here and in other threads I haven't found anyone complaining about this loss of signal/channels with a cabelcard-equipped TV. Anyone here have such a TV? Do they lose channels like TiVos? I know they are rather more rare than S3/HD TiVos and, according to the first tech, touchier about CCs but I wonder if Cox has seen the problem with TV-only or TiVo-plus-TV customers.

(FWIW, I had a bad day yesterday - four outages - and then none in the last 24 hours.)


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## andygriffith

jebbbz said:


> After a quick search here and in other threads I haven't found anyone complaining about this loss of signal/channels with a cabelcard-equipped TV. Anyone here have such a TV? Do they lose channels like TiVos? I know they are rather more rare than S3/HD TiVos and, according to the first tech, touchier about CCs but I wonder if Cox has seen the problem with TV-only or TiVo-plus-TV customers.
> 
> (FWIW, I had a bad day yesterday - four outages - and then none in the last 24 hours.)


You probably don't see any posts because this is a TiVo forum and anyone with just a Single Stream card in their TV won't see this issue, since this seems to be a Multi Stream issue. Also, they may not notice it, since it wouldn't impact them like it does us, with the DVR stopping the recording.

I am having far fewer incidents than I was for the first 2 weeks, but they still happen, and two of them have caused my TiVo to reboot.


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## jebbbz

All true but I thought someone here with a CC TV in addition to a TiVo might have had problems since I recalled reading that Cox was installing only MCards now, even in single slot devices. It was a long shot but I thought it would be nice to know if the problem was there even when TiVo wasn't.


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## rtmcmjr

I just finished the following letter it is going out to the Presidents of both companies tomorrow via certified mail.

August 12, 2008

Tivo
Tom Rogers CEO and President 
Corporate headquarters
2160 Gold Street
P.O. Box 2160
Alviso, CA 95002-2160

Patrick J. Esser President
Cox Communications Inc.
1400 Lake Hearn Drive
Atlanta, Georgia 30319

Dear Mr. Rogers and Mr. Esser,
Let me first say I am a long time Tivo and Cox customer. I wanted to document for both of you the nightmare I have been through over the past 7 months. This nightmare involves both your companies and will take both your companies to solve it. There are many of us that are having these issues. Want to see just a small example, read this thread on the Tivo Community forum. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=399534

January 2008 brought excitement to our house. I decided to upgrade our family entertainment system and went out and purchased about 4000.00 worth of new electronics; LCD TV, Bose System and Series 3 HD Tivo DVR. Having been a long time Tivo customer with two other Series 2 Tivo's in my house I anticipated no problems. Boy was I ever wrong. What ensued was a 7 month nightmare that I blame on both of your companies. From mid-January through August 11th I have logged 12 calls to Cox Cable, had numerous cable outages, have had Cox to my house at least 5 days, missed many of hours of work and have spent hours upon hours of my own time trying to solve my problem.

The problem? The cable card technology required by my Tivo and supported by Cox Cable simply does not work. I have been plagued by constant outages, Tivo "gray screens", cable cards losing authorization, cable cards losing premium channels and have generally been a pain in the backside. It's never worked properly. So now after 7+ months of problems and patience trying to get the problem solved I have finally succumbed to my frustrations. On August 11th I removed my Series 3 HD Tivo and had a Cox HD DVR installed.

The most frustrating part of this whole situation has been lack of ownership of the issue. If I call Tivo they say call Cox Cable there is nothing they can do. If I call Cox Cable they say it's a Tivo problem because of the cable cards and I should just get their Cox DVR.

I like Tivo and I want to use Tivo, like I said I still have two Series 2 Tivo DVR's that I've been using for years with no problems, however, the Series 3 Tivo HD simply does not work in my home because of the lack of functioning cable cards on the Cox system. I am out approximately $400.00 now that I have spent on this Series 3 HD Tivo that I cannot use combined with the 80.00 Tivo network adapter.

I am telling you both of my problems in hopes that someone will read my letter and take some action to solve the problem. I gave this problem all I can tolerate; I am super techie and tried to work with technicians at both companies to solve the problem. In the end we could never solve the cable card issue and all I wanted was to enjoy my new TV, therefore, I relented and installed a Cox approved DVR.

Gentlemen, your two companies need to solve this. Tivo is leaving customers like me high and dry by selling me a box that they know is plagued with issues because of the cable cards, it is well documented. Cox Cable is not willing to solve the problem and forcing me to use a sub-par DVR that is not nearly as fully featured as the Tivo DVRs.

This situation has also hit me in the pocket book. Now my household DVR costs have nearly doubled. I am forced to use the Cox HD DVR for 23.00 per month. I still have two Tivo Series 2 DVR's that are costing me 23.00 a month. So my household DVR cost has went from 28.00 for my 3 Tivo boxes to 46.00 a month for 2 Tivo Box and 1 Cox DVR. All because the cable card issue cannot be solved with Cox.

I do have some suggestions should you two deem to do what is right for the customers.

Tivo could work with Scientific Atlanta to include Tivo software in their DVR's for a licensing fee or at least to solve the cable card issue.
Tivo would be much served by abandoning the cable card technology and coming up with a way for their Series 3 DVR to except a coax input for HD reception.
Cox should train its techs better to work with cable cards. I know more than Cox techs about cable cards, each time they showed up at my house with a new cable card I basically had to do the install. The Cox phone staff also knows little or nothing about cable cards.
Cox and Tivo should work together to solve this problem. From my experience it's been nothing but a finger pointing game which each company blaming the other for the problems.
Mr. Rogers &#8230; I am die hard Tivo Customer and believe Tivo makes the best DVR software currently in existence. But if this cable card problem is not solved not many people will be able to take advantage of it. Tivo needs to serious work on licensing deals to get Tivo software embedded in cable company DVR offerings. I realize this will hurt your subscription base, but it may in fact save the Tivo Company from extinction.

Thank you gentlemen for reading this lengthy document and I hope some action can come of this letter so future customers don't have to endure the months of frustration I've endured. My complete contact information at the top of this document should you want to communicate with me.


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## JayBird

jebbbz said:


> After a quick search here and in other threads I haven't found anyone complaining about this loss of signal/channels with a cabelcard-equipped TV. Anyone here have such a TV? Do they lose channels like TiVos? I know they are rather more rare than S3/HD TiVos and, according to the first tech, touchier about CCs but I wonder if Cox has seen the problem with TV-only or TiVo-plus-TV customers.
> 
> (FWIW, I had a bad day yesterday - four outages - and then none in the last 24 hours.)


I have a 60" Pioneer Plasma w/ an S-card installed. Although I rarely watch live TV on it, so far I've seen no real problems. However, the S-cards did not get a firmware update along with the M-cards on July 1st.

My sister has a 50" Pioneer Plasma w/ an M-card. Like me, I doubt she watches much live TV on it since she also has a TiVo HD (experiencing all the same issues that we all are in the Phoenix area). She hasn't mentioned any issues with the TV to me, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any. It would be much more benign on the TV since, if you're not watching live TV at the moment the cable card resets, you won't ever notice it.

I would guess that the TiVo HD is the first mainstream product that is really testing the multistream capabilities of the multistream cable card design, and thus has been the guinea pig to uncover all the bugs in the system. We are all just left being TiVo's, Cox's, and SA/Cisco's beta testers.


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## mamatara

Just a note. I am in Tucson and having MAJOR problems. All Olympics recordings were cut off last night. Apparently, this has been happening for quite some time in my household, but I wasn't told. I watch my Series 2, which works fine. My husband and kids watch the TiVo HD in the livingroom. It's only been since I wanted to watch the Olympics in all it's HD glory that I noticed the problem. I don't know if maybe it's gotten worse, but it's horrible. It's completely unusable. I've called TiVO. They are CLUELESS. I've called Cox. Same thing. I HATE to go back to the Cox DVR because I tried it for two months and had the DVR replaced three times. My technician said I was an anomoly, that the DVR's never had problems. Also, I hated the interface after loving my good old Series 2 for 3 years. UGH. This is so frustrating. I'm gonna try to get a free SA with Cox. We'll see. I hate to do that, but this is ridiculous.


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## mamatara

Well, I actually got someone on the phone at Cox who even knew the issue existed. That was refreshing. He said that replacing the cable card works for some amount of time--sometimes hours, weeks, months. Anyone have this experience? So I am having my cable card replaced. Anyone know whether S-cards are having fewer issues? I have one M-Card. He said if this doesn't work they are leasing HD DVR's for the price of the cable card rental--$2/month--until the tuner adapter (?) is released in November (they hope.)


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## BrianAZ

mamatara said:


> Well, I actually got someone on the phone at Cox who even knew the issue existed. That was refreshing. He said that replacing the cable card works for some amount of time--sometimes hours, weeks, months. Anyone have this experience? So I am having my cable card replaced. Anyone know whether S-cards are having fewer issues? I have one M-Card. He said if this doesn't work they are leasing HD DVR's for the price of the cable card rental--$2/month--until the tuner adapter (?) is released in November (they hope.)


I can't see how a new cablecard has *any* impact on this unless it is a prior firmware and does not auto-upgrade (which is should). Sounds like he wanted you off the phone. The SCards have their own stutter-type issue. Depending on which channels you watch, it may be better for you.


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## JayBird

Replacing the cable card doesn't solve the issue, contrary to whatever the Cox rep said. The problem is with the 301 firmware on the M-card cable cards, which, if a card doesn't already have the 301 firmware, it is automatically updated to 301 by Cox upon insertion into a TiVo. Until the firmware can be updated with a fix for this problem, it affects *all *TiVo HD users in AZ that have Cox that use a M-card cable card. Any time bought by replacing the cable card is only a mere coincidence. If you read previous posts on this thread, people have had their cable cards replaced, only to see this same problem rear its ugly head within an hour.

The problem happens randomly, whenever the firmware code on the cable card ends up in a code path that takes it off into the weeds. You can go for a day or two with little or no incidents, followed by days where it happens multiple times per hour. There is no correlation between when one person has a problem and when another one does. The bottom line is it's buggy firmware code on the cable cards, and TiVo, Cox, and SA/Cisco don't appear to be all that motivated to produce a fix to the problem. Frankly, if I were running TiVo, I'd be filing a lawsuit against Cox at this point for causing their product to not function properly for their customers, resulting in lost revenues.

Note that this problem appears to only affect people using M-cards. People using dual S-cards instead of an M-card in their TiVo HDs report that they are not having _this _particular problem. However, the S-cards have problems of their own, such as audio sync problems, so it's not an ideal alternative. And, with two S-cards you have to pay Cox the additional monthly fee for the 2nd card.

Also, the word on the street is that Cox has stopped stocking S-cards, since by design M-cards can be used in place of S-cards in single tuner devices (for example, a TV with a cable card slot). Thus, you may not be able to switch your TiVo HD to S-cards even if you wanted to, as the techs no longer have any on their trucks to give you.

As for the tuning adapter, it is completely unrelated to this problem. The tuning adapter will allow TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD owners to access channels that Cox is converting to use switched digital video (SDV). See this thread and this thread for more information about SDV and the tuning adapter. If you're interested, here is a spec sheet for the Cisco STA1520 tuning adapter that Cox will be providing to TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD owners.

This was the first I had heard that the tuning adapter won't be available until November - which of course means we won't see it until sometime next year... No doubt that it's part of Cox's ongoing attempt to get their customers to dump their TiVos in favor of Cox's inferior DVR, which is something else that TiVo should be suing Cox over.


----------



## mzwahlen

JayBird said:


> Frankly, if I were running TiVo, I'd be filing a lawsuit against Cox at this point for causing their product to not function properly for their customers, resulting in lost revenues.


I agree. I am completely beyond frustrated! I think all of this is grounds, from the consumer's point of view, for some kind of class action lawsuit towards all three companies involved. There is just no excuse for this lack of support. There needs to be some kind of resolution post-haste!


----------



## mamatara

BrianAZ said:


> I can't see how a new cablecard has *any* impact on this unless it is a prior firmware and does not auto-upgrade (which is should). Sounds like he wanted you off the phone. The SCards have their own stutter-type issue. Depending on which channels you watch, it may be better for you.


He was actually really helpful, more knowledgable than anyone else I have ever got at Cox. Most of them are so clueless about cable cards. I have a feeling he's just not quite so clueless but still not completely in the know. Or maybe I'm just naive.

Have you, personally, dealt with the stutter issues. Is it so bad that it's intolerable? This partial recording issue I'm dealing with IS intolerable. 100% of my recordings last night were cut short. Before yesterday, it was 30%, then 50%. It just seems to be getting worse. It's a shame I'm having to deal with it not being up to par, but really that DVR I had from Cox drove me insane. For some reason, it would just not record some shows. It would lock up. There were several of them that did the same thing. I want to try everything before I resort to taking one of their machines.

Thanks for responding so quickly.


----------



## BrianAZ

mamatara said:


> Have you, personally, dealt with the stutter issues. Is it so bad that it's intolerable? This partial recording issue I'm dealing with IS intolerable. 100% of my recordings last night were cut short. Before yesterday, it was 30%, then 50%. It just seems to be getting worse. It's a shame I'm having to deal with it not being up to par, but really that DVR I had from Cox drove me insane. For some reason, it would just not record some shows. It would lock up. There were several of them that did the same thing. I want to try everything before I resort to taking one of their machines.
> 
> Thanks for responding so quickly.


I started out with 2 SCards before the MCards were available. The stuttering was horrific for me. But, it did seem to be channel specific. It's been too long for me to recall which channels, but it certainly was channels I watched often. I *think* it was mostly SD channels?? I think it would stutter a few times an hour.. you'd have to pause and then play to get it going again and sometimes that wouldn't work and you'd have to reboot. It almost felt like a memory leak or something where it got progressivley worse with time until you had to reset the unit. I'm not sure if this is still the case as I've had MCards for quite some time now.

Anyway, at the time... it was a choice between the frequent stuttering (SCards) which made a significant number of my channels unwatchable nearly all the time or the MCard which had this current channel loss problem but it only happened like once a week so it was hardly noticeable AND a problem where once a month, you would lose your channels and need to call Cox to get it fixed on the phone. I went with the MCard. Life was great (or at least good) until July 1 firmware update.


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## cam026

Did anyone else receive the TIVO notice of a special hotline to deal with cable card issues? 1-866-986-8486 Has anyone tried it yet?

Here is the message:

Dear TiVo Customer,

Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support regarding your cable company-provided CableCARD decoder(s). 

It's our highest priority to make sure any issues are resolved promptly and that you are enjoying the TiVo service as soon as humanly possible! In case you need to contact us in the future regarding this issue, we have a CableCARD Hotline where agents are working at fast-forward speed to help you with CableCARD installation, troubleshooting, or any communications with your cable provider.

You can reach our TiVo CableCARD hotline at 1-866-986-8486 between the hours of 6 am and 9 pm PST.

Thanks for being a valued TiVo customer!

And here's to great entertainment,
Your friends at TiVo


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## mamatara

Maybe we could get some attention if everyone started blogging about how TiVo, Cox and SA are making us miss the Olympics. If that got picked up by the press, it would get a resolution real quick. 

It's really quite appalling. I had not had any problems with the dropped channels. It may have been happening, but we didn't notice. We only began noticing the problem when we started getting the partial recordings which started happening in the last few weeks. If it had not been for finally seeing a 161-38 error message and being able to search for that I would have not come upon this thread. It's been really helpful to be able to read about what was going on because they were giving me the run around about the clock being off and that I needed to add minutes to the end of the recording and other such nonsense. They just didn't get it. I didn't get it either until I could read that other people were experiencing these same problems.

Thanks for all the information,
Tara


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## NSlikster

My CableCard has been in place for 1 week. I've had dozens of outages, and dozens of partial recordings. If replacing them works for a while, it's not going to help for long given that I had my first outage and lost recording on day one.

I think I'm going to call Tivo tonight see what this hot line is all about and then return the unit while I can still get my $ back.

But I am NOT going to call Cox and install their DVR. Instead, I'm going to march down to Cox in the next few days, return the useless CableCard, and get a cable box again. $6 a month extra for the box vs. $2.00 for a piece of hardware that doesn't work. You do the math. 

I'm going to hook my series 2 up to a separate input so that I can still watch HD (without replay which won't be very often). I won't get nice looking HD channel recording, but most of my favorite shows aren't on HD or just aren't worth this hassle to see in HD if I have to CONSTANTLY monitor the system to see if it is actually working. Even my VCR was more reliable than this.

I'll buy an HD TiVo series 4 when they fix the issue. In the mean time, I want to go back to the days when I could just set my Tivo and NEVER have to check it to make sure things are recording.


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## JayBird

Perhaps it's time to get a little help with this issue from the local news stations...

3 On Your Side
5 Investigates
Call 12 For Action
ABC15 Investigators

Who wants to initiate the news stories?

I can see it now... "Cox prevents high def TiVo owners from recording the Olympic games"...

I'm sure NBC would have a field day with that one...


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## mamatara

I agree. I'd like to contact my local NBC affiliate via e-mail (KVOA--I'm in Tucson), reference this thread, and tell them I'm missing the Olympics. I don't have all the technical information, though. I don't know if it's necessary that I have all the techie info, but if one of you techies would be willing to talk to them that would be great. Or maybe someone who has been in communication with TiVo and Cox longer than I have been.


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## NSlikster

I'd be willing to initaite this tv network thing. Trouble is, I've had the issue for a week, vs. months and months and months for others. It probably woulnd't make a very compelling story... guy with HD Tivo has cable outages for a week due to issue with Cox CableCard Network...3 on your side investigates...  I just don't see that happening.


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## mamatara

This is the message I've sent.

Hi,

I would really like to be enjoying the Olympics right now on my lovely 50 inch HDTV. I have a TiVo that should allow me to do so. Unfortunately, it doesnt work. To have an HD TiVo and Cox cable, I have to use a cable card supplied by Cox. Apparently, the cable card furnished by Scientific Atlanta to Cox had a recent firmware upgrade that makes my HD TiVo act more like a $400 paper weight. When we wake up in the morning to catch some of our favorite Olympic sportswrestling, weightlifting and othersthey arent there. Instead, we get a message saying we have a partial recordings. I was lucky to be watching the Opening Ceremonies live, or close to live, because I could have missed them. But Saturday morning I realized that recordings of the Olympics had been cut off. I called TiVo and they acted like they had no idea what was going on. After some hunting, my technical support agent told me that this was indeed a known issue and just had me restart my machine. The problem still happened. I tried contacting Cox. Their technical support didnt know anything was going on either. I again attempted to call TiVo when the problem still occurred and it seemed to be much worse than before. They had me run a Guided Setup again on my TiVo. This morning, we woke to 100% of our recordings being cut-off. I received a TiVo error message on my TV stating that a 161-38 error had occurred. I was able to use this error code and do a Google search which led me to this thread http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=399534 started on 7/16/08. It gave me some idea of what was happening and why. I called TiVo again and the tech support agent I spoke with had no idea what was going on. I was able to relay what Id learned on this message board to her and gave her the URL. She said we could try to do a few things to fix the problem but doubted they would help. I agreed with her. I asked her if I could put my account on hold until there was a fix and she wasnt sure. I dont want to have to pay an Early Termination Fee. I really want my TiVo. I just want my TiVo to work correctly. I dont think thats too much to ask. Cox offered to allow me to lease their HD DVR for the price I pay for their cable card, $2. I really dont want to make this move. I tried their DVR. It is an inferior product to what TiVo can bewhen it works. Since we as consumers have been unable to get any forward movement on this issue, I was hoping you could. And I was hoping you could do so quickly so my family doesnt have to miss ALL of the 2008 Olympics.


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## NSlikster

FYI, the phone number included for the Hotline is just the phone number for standard TiVo support. My first guy suggested I call Cox and have them come out and repair my CableCard to my unit. I'm now being transferred to his supervisor.


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## NSlikster

OK, I was a bit firm, but not mean. But somehow I think the guy put me on the drive him insane and he'll go away line. It keeps repeating..."It may be quicker to visit the web site ... to blah balh blah..." over and over and over.

Yup...pretty much what I expected. I got the same guy back and he said its not a TiVo issue, its a Cox issue. If the card is rebooting, there must be something wrong with it. Have Cox rehit it, or have them replace it. If that doesn't fix it, we'll replace the TiVo. I said why should I bother with this when its a known issue that they're not responding to.

Well TiVo, it may not be "YOUR ISSUE," but losing your customers is, in fact, "YOUR ISSUE." Have a Nice Day! Thank you. Guess maybe I will be getting a Cox DVR after all. At least they can provide the service, underhandedly or not. If you go out of business in the long run, I'll be very sad becasue I love your service, but guess what, "THAT'S NOT MY ISSUE...IS IT...ITS YOURS."

So irritated.


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## Supermurph

Nicely written letter. It describes the situation and doesn't rant. I have a few comments that I believe are the correct answers. I'm sure that I'll be corrected since this is a discussion board, after all.


Tivo could work with Scientific Atlanta to include Tivo software in their DVRs for a licensing fee or at least to solve the cable card issue.
Tivo and Cox have a contract in place to do exactly that using the Scientific Atlanta boxes. This was rolled out for Comcast during the last year. Cox originally said they would do it during 2008, but I doubt that's going to happen since we haven't heard a peep.​
Tivo would be much served by abandoning the cable card technology and coming up with a way for their Series 3 DVR to except a coax input for HD reception.
Even if Tivo put a decoder of some sort inside the Tivo, I would expect that it would basically be a CableCard anyway since Tivo is not manufactured by Scientific Atlanta. I'm not a tech guy though, so I could be wrong on that. Also, Cox is required by the FCC to provide working CableCards anyway.​

Cox should train its techs better to work with cable cards. I know more than Cox techs about cable cards, each time they showed up at my house with a new cable card I basically had to do the install. The Cox phone staff also knows little or nothing about cable cards.
I couldn't agree with you more. Well said!​

Cox and Tivo should work together to solve this problem. From my experience its been nothing but a finger pointing game which each company blaming the other for the problems.
I think this was going on a few months ago, but in the last month they seem to have cleaned this up. A Cox tech showed me a letter he had which specifically told Cox employees to not point fingers and explained to them that Tivo, SA, and Cox shared responsibility for the issue. Also, a Cox manager has called me to apologize and asked that I be patient while they work through this. He told me that the Cox position was that they were responsible for the satisfaction of Cox customers regardless of what box they were using to receive TV. You will also notice on this thread that Cox, Tivo, and SA are now meeting weekly trying to fix the issues. Both Cox and Tivo have been in contact with me and I can tell you that a fix is coming very soon. So, hang on a little longer.​

Mr. Rogers  I am die hard Tivo Customer and believe Tivo makes the best DVR software currently in existence. But if this cable card problem is not solved not many people will be able to take advantage of it. Tivo needs to serious work on licensing deals to get Tivo software embedded in cable company DVR offerings. I realize this will hurt your subscription base, but it may in fact save the Tivo Company from extinction.
Might not be a bad idea. However, I can recall seeing threads awhile back about issues on the Comcast Tivo in the Motorola cable boxes. It seems they are trying to do both their own boxes and license software of cable boxes. Either way, they need to whatever they do right and then customers will be happy.​
I just wanted to give my two cents and fill in some stuff where I had info. Again, well written letter.


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## bowlingblogger

mamatara, I just wanted to salute you for writing the message to the news station about our cablecard woes. If they should happen to be interested in investigating, I am also in Tucson and more than willing to talk to them about our problems as well (and probably demonstrate it to them in under 15 mins).


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## rtmcmjr

Hey all .... after all my complaining on this board I want to report some good news. After Tivo got a hold of my letter (see several posts above) today I received a phone call from a high level tech at Tivo. 

He explained to me the problem and also explained it is isolated to Cox in Phoenix. He said they are working feverishly to fix it and believes they are really close to a permanent fix. He explained to me that a couple Tivo techs are stationed at Cox in Phoenix right now. They installed 5 Tivos on the Phoenix Cox network last week with a card that supposedly fixes the issue. He said in the past 7 days .. no problems or anything.

The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and test this new card over the next month. 

So my letter writing worked. They do care


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## NSlikster

Clearly I'm lamenting. I'm dying at the thought of giving up on TiVo after 4 years of loving the service. One week, and I'm already fed up. I feel for the folks who struggled throug this for months, even if its been its worst for the past six weeks. I'm ready to drop TiVo because it won't record my shows. I can't trust it at all. Its like having someone around you can never quite count on. *WHY, WHY, WHY can't this thing keep recording through the signal interruption? Why is that too much to ask?*

So about the HD Tivo controlling something through the Coax. Why even be that complicated. How about a USB attachment so that the TiVo can go back to controlling a Box. Get rid of this CableCard garbage. You lay your whole entire product line and service on a 3rd party product that may or may not work with one firmware update, or TiVo service update away from complete failure. I had maybe one or two issues a year with my Series 2 TiVo because the thing just worked - ALWAYS. I would go months sometimes withough reboots. The biggest issue I ever really had was when someone bumped the IR dongles too hard and the channels didn't change. But that was easy to fix. Move them back.

And about Cox manager calling asking to be more patient. I think that's nice and all, but how about a public statement. And how much more patient can people be after waiting months for this technology to work with the TiVo. How about a status update? What have you done? What might the problem be? What have you tried? Why isn't it working? What are you investigating? What are the next steps? How are you helping your customers through this? Something!

I'm lamenting because I have 15 days to make a final decision that I have to stick with. I love Cox High Speed Internet. And I love the TiVo product and service. The TiVo service rep made me feel like I had to jump through hoops with everyone else to feel justified in making any statements about what the issue was. I have to be home from work to meet the cable guys several times to pop new CableCards into the unit and call a 1-800#, and wait for mail order to ship me a new TiVo until, and days of trial and error to get any real help. I haven't even tried Cox yet because god knows how irritated I'll be after I make that call.


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## cam026

That is good news! Please keep us posted on the developments.


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## mamatara

rtmcmjr said:


> Hey all .... after all my complaining on this board I want to report some good news. After Tivo got a hold of my letter (see several posts above) today I received a phone call from a high level tech at Tivo.
> 
> He explained to me the problem and also explained it is isolated to Cox in Phoenix. He said they are working feverishly to fix it and believes they are really close to a permanent fix. He explained to me that a couple Tivo techs are stationed at Cox in Phoenix right now. They installed 5 Tivos on the Phoenix Cox network last week with a card that supposedly fixes the issue. He said in the past 7 days .. no problems or anything.
> 
> The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and test this new card over the next month.
> 
> So my letter writing worked. They do care


Isolated to Phoenix or Phoenix/Tucson? It would be so great to have a fix. Congrats on getting a respnose.


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## JayBird

rtmcmjr said:


> The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and test this new card over the next month.


The fact that you will be testing it _*over the next month*_ would imply that the fix won't be sent out to the general public for at least another month.

Who do I (we?) need to contact to be included in this "special test group"?


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## saibari

rtmcmjr said:


> Well I got partial good news. Cox is not giving me a FREE DVR. However, Tivo put my account on "hold" so that means my billing will stop, however, I will not lose my 6.95 a month price. You see I've had Tivo for so long that my additional Tivo's are only 6.95 month.
> 
> At this point I have no contracts or anything. I own all my Tivo's out right and have never had to sign a service agreement since my first one in 2002
> 
> Hey we should have a beer sometime, I'm in Ahwatukee also. Just out of curiosity ... what area are you in. I'm curious to see if we are on the same Cox node. I'm in the neighborhood across from the Foothills Post Office.


That's great about TiVo putting your account on hold. I've not yet called them. In fact, life intervened and I never did get around to calling Cox either so the tech came out this morning (as per the appt I had scheduled previously) and changed out my M-card for the umpteenth time. He also checked all my connections, signal strenght, etc. and said that everything looked good. Whatever he did, it fixed a slight problem I was having with my Series 2 at least. ... And my HD is working fine for what... about 8 hours now! Woo-hoo!

My problem is that I have all my equipment in a separate room and this super-duper (read ridiculously expensive) remote control that I would have to pay to get re-programmed for the Cox DVR cuz the tech told me the Cox remote would not be able to control the DVR if it's in a separate room (a small room right next door) <huge sigh> ...

But listen, I would certainly _insist_ that Cox give you the DVR free until they resolve this problem. I'm with JayBird there, they should _not_ profit by TiVo customers renting their DVR's!

And, by the way, I'm off of Desert Foothills Pkwy, North of Chandler Blvd, a couple of blocks past Cerritos and Altadena schools... but I hate beer!


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## Roderigo

NSlikster said:


> *WHY, WHY, WHY can't this thing keep recording through the signal interruption? *


Well, part of the problem is that it isn't a "signal interruption" in the traditional sense of a RF signal interruption, which the tivo will happily continue recording through.

In this case, from what I've read, the whole cablecard is crashing, and needs to be reset. Previous to 9.3, this type of crash would result in the card stopping to work altogether, until you noticed and rebooted your tivo (so, instead of partial recordings, you'd get days without any recordings). With 9.3, tivo made things a "bit" better, and they added code to detect when the card crashed, and reset it (the 161-38 is caused by code tivo added to detect the failure). So, now you get partials, but the card is at least recovering without you having to do anything.

So, I'm sure tivo could program their system to deal with the card crashing in a better way. But, the real answer is the card shouldn't crash, and certainly not as frequently as it is. When they designed the system, they made some assumptions, and certainly the current state of the cards on this system doesn't fit that assumption. While you can fault tivo for making this assumption, doesn't seem so unreasonable to me.



NSlikster said:


> So about the HD Tivo controlling something through the Coax. Why even be that complicated. How about a USB attachment so that the TiVo can go back to controlling a Box.


Ah - but here the tivo is back to depending on a "3rd party product that may or may not work with one firmware update." There are certainly reports on here of cable companies releasing a firmware upgrade for their boxes that hose tivo customers. If you're in a market where this happens, you're just as screwed, but you're less likely to go to tivo for resolution.


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## andygriffith

Did I read correctly, does it sound like the permanent solution is a hardware solution? They are testing new cards???


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## saibari

mzwahlen said:


> I agree. I am completely beyond frustrated! I think all of this is grounds, from the consumer's point of view, for some kind of class action lawsuit towards all three companies involved. There is just no excuse for this lack of support. There needs to be some kind of resolution post-haste!


Definitely! Any lawyers on this board?!


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## saibari

BrianAZ said:


> I started out with 2 SCards before the MCards were available. The stuttering was horrific for me. But, it did seem to be channel specific. It's been too long for me to recall which channels, but it certainly was channels I watched often. I *think* it was mostly SD channels?? I think it would stutter a few times an hour.. you'd have to pause and then play to get it going again and sometimes that wouldn't work and you'd have to reboot. It almost felt like a memory leak or something where it got progressivley worse with time until you had to reset the unit. I'm not sure if this is still the case as I've had MCards for quite some time now.
> 
> Anyway, at the time... it was a choice between the frequent stuttering (SCards) which made a significant number of my channels unwatchable nearly all the time or the MCard which had this current channel loss problem but it only happened like once a week so it was hardly noticeable AND a problem where once a month, you would lose your channels and need to call Cox to get it fixed on the phone. I went with the MCard. Life was great (or at least good) until July 1 firmware update.


What he said! My stutter problem with S-cards was on both HD & standard-def channels and was so bad that many shows were simply unwatchable!


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## saibari

JayBird said:


> Perhaps it's time to get a little help with this issue from the local news stations...
> 
> 3 On Your Side
> 5 Investigates
> Call 12 For Action
> ABC15 Investigators
> 
> Who wants to initiate the news stories?
> 
> I can see it now... "Cox prevents high def TiVo owners from recording the Olympic games"...
> 
> I'm sure NBC would have a field day with that one...


I've been meaning to do this, just haven't had time! I'll certainly look into it tomorrow... if at all possible!


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## saibari

rtmcmjr said:


> Hey all .... after all my complaining on this board I want to report some good news. After Tivo got a hold of my letter (see several posts above) today I received a phone call from a high level tech at Tivo.
> 
> He explained to me the problem and also explained it is isolated to Cox in Phoenix. He said they are working feverishly to fix it and believes they are really close to a permanent fix. He explained to me that a couple Tivo techs are stationed at Cox in Phoenix right now. They installed 5 Tivos on the Phoenix Cox network last week with a card that supposedly fixes the issue. He said in the past 7 days .. no problems or anything.
> 
> The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and test this new card over the next month.
> 
> So my letter writing worked. They do care


Excellent! I think I'll get on the phone with TiVo and see about getting in that group...


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## Lovak

rtmcmjr said:


> Hey all .... after all my complaining on this board I want to report some good news. After Tivo got a hold of my letter (see several posts above) today I received a phone call from a high level tech at Tivo.
> 
> He explained to me the problem and also explained it is isolated to Cox in Phoenix. He said they are working feverishly to fix it and believes they are really close to a permanent fix. He explained to me that a couple Tivo techs are stationed at Cox in Phoenix right now. They installed 5 Tivos on the Phoenix Cox network last week with a card that supposedly fixes the issue. He said in the past 7 days .. no problems or anything.
> 
> The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and test this new card over the next month.
> 
> So my letter writing worked. They do care


Congrats! Is there any way to get our names on the list without jumping through 6 billion hoops?

I have been fortunate that most of my recordings over the past week and a half have been uninterrupted (some are still getting killed mid-stream, but not stuff I really care about for a change). I have not been recording the Olympics though, and I would definitely be angry if I was...

Hopefully this will be resolved and pushed out to us sooner rather than later...


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## saibari

So who asked about whether switching out the cable card makes a difference? I think the person who replied and said it's all a matter of coincidence as to how long you go without problems is on the money. Sometimes I've gone a couple days, sometimes an hour. This time it was about 10 hrs! 

Of course, I had to switch out the card because oddly enough I got the dang gray screen problem again--only this time it seemed to switch channels. Anyway, at least that problem is solved. ... for now... 

I guess I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet and switch to the free Cox DVR even though it's gonna cost me to reprogram the darn universal remote... and even though by all accounts I'm not gonna like the Cox DVR.


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## jeffinaz

I continue to get the error and associated signal drop/partial recordings. Sometimes it is a couple times per day and other days it is multiple times per hour. What I have tried is forcing a restart each night before I go to bed. This seems to cut down on the number of errors I get each day. Really not that big of a deal because I am not waiting on it to restart. You might want to give it a shot.

Under no circumstances will I go to the Cox DVR. It is junk and has one of the least user friendly interfaces I have ever seen. I would rather just record on my series 2 and watch recordings on there.

If Tivo/Cox has a new card that solves the problem, I am VERY concerned about how long it will be before it is available to the masses. If they need a month to field test, at least a month to ship cards to Cox, and another month to schedule truck rolls to all of us for install. Arrrrrgggggghhh!


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## andygriffith

Was anyone experiencing a lot of signal loss on Cox NBC HD, 712 in the Phoenix area last night? This is different than the cable card reset issue, it was definitely a signal loss issue. I could switch to my other tuner when the signal disappeared on 712. It also didn't seem to happen on 12, the SD channel. The TiVo didn't lose its buffer on that channel either. It was happening a lot last night, just wondering if anyone else saw that?


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## rtmcmjr

mamatara said:


> Isolated to Phoenix or Phoenix/Tucson? It would be so great to have a fix. Congrats on getting a respnose.


I miss stated that ... Cox Arizona.


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## rtmcmjr

JayBird said:


> The fact that you will be testing it _*over the next month*_ would imply that the fix won't be sent out to the general public for at least another month.
> 
> Who do I (we?) need to contact to be included in this "special test group"?


Obviously I can't give out the guys name. I would just suggest you contact Tivo Support and ask them to forward your name and number to the Cox Arizona technicians.


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## jeffinaz

Andy Griffith,

Yes, I saw the signal loss as well. In fact, I see signal loss on 712 exponentially more than any other channel on a regular basis.


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## JayBird

rtmcmjr said:


> I would just suggest you contact Tivo Support and ask them to forward your name and number to the Cox Arizona technicians.


Yea, like that's really going to get us anywhere...

Any chance you could inform your super secret contact that there are several of us who have been discussing this issue on this thread who would like to be included in the "special test group" and that we would like to have an avenue through which we could apply (other than the completely useless support channels of either TiVo or Cox)?


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## BrianAZ

rtmcmjr said:


> The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and test this new card over the next month.
> 
> So my letter writing worked. They do care


I'm on this list as well as a couple others in this thread. We previously received firmware 303 (a week or two ago) which crippled our Tivo's. Be glad you weren't on the list for that!! 

Anyway, as you said, 304 is being tested right now and there have been no issues thus far. Keep your fingers crossed. I and the others who are testing will let everyone know if there is any issues during the testing.


----------



## BrianAZ

saibari said:


> My problem is that I have all my equipment in a separate room and this super-duper (read ridiculously expensive) remote control that I would have to pay to get re-programmed for the Cox DVR cuz the tech told me the Cox remote would not be able to control the DVR if it's in a separate room (a small room right next door) <huge sigh> ...


Why don't you just get a Harmony by Logitech?


----------



## BrianAZ

jeffinaz said:


> ...If Tivo/Cox has a new card that solves the problem, I am VERY concerned about how long it will be before it is available to the masses. If they need a month to field test, at least a month to ship cards to Cox, and another month to schedule truck rolls to all of us for install. Arrrrrgggggghhh!


It's not a new physical card, it's new *firmware* for the card. They deploy it to the masses remotely. Once they feel it's ready, the deployment itself would be fairly quick.


----------



## BrianAZ

rtmcmjr said:


> Obviously I can't give out the guys name. I would just suggest you contact Tivo Support and ask them to forward your name and number to the Cox Arizona technicians.


I have to second this. They are very hesitant to add too many people on the list. You must keep in mind that the firmware version *prior * to the one being tested now completely broke the tivo. I'm talking 100% DOWN. The only channels I got were 21-25 and they were showing the music channels instead of the normal channels.

All testing on this version is looking good but since it is *testing/beta*, unless you're up for something like that to happen and have it impact you for a day or two, I'd recommend not asking to be added.


----------



## BrianAZ

JayBird said:


> Yea, like that's really going to get us anywhere...
> 
> Any chance you could inform your super secret contact that there are several of us who have been discussing this issue on this thread who would like to be included in the "special test group" and that we would like to have an avenue through which we could apply (other than the completely useless support channels of either TiVo or Cox)?


Tivo is *very* familiar with this thread and reads it regularly (daily).


----------



## Lovak

Thank you guys (and gals) for taking the ball and running with it to get all of us a solution to this problem!


----------



## JayBird

BrianAZ said:


> Tivo is *very* familiar with this thread and reads it regularly (daily).


It would be awfully nice if they would actually provide regular updates with detailed technical info about the progress of finding a solution (i.e. not just another "we're working on it" message). It's maddening that the only valid source of status of the problem are the posts by yourself, rtmcmjr, and any others that have super secret contacts on the inside. The customer support reps for both companies clearly don't have a clue, so it's pointless to call them for the latest status.

It would have been a really good PR move on the part of TiVo to have kept us all regularly informed through all of this instead of just leaving us all out to dry, at best providing only fluffy "we're working on it" messages.

For what it's worth, my trusty old Series 1, which has hardly had an issue in over 7 years of service, is our "backup" TiVo, recording SD duplicates of our key season passes off the analog feed in parallel with the TiVo HD so we don't lose any critical programs. I'm also very technically savvy, being an embedded software/firmware developer myself. So I'd be more than willing to be a beta tester of the new firmware if I somehow could be added to the list, especially now that it sounds like 304 is relatively stable.


----------



## dqryche

I haven't check these threads since I got the 301 firmware update. My Series3 HD has worked great since the update. I haven't lost a recording or had to reboot the TIVO since. I had no idea it wasn't working for everyone. I thought the problem was solved. I had almost cancelled with Cox before the firmware update. Sorry to hear about that for everyone else. I'm in East Mesa and have two M-cards. I wonder why mine works?


----------



## BrianAZ

dqryche said:


> I haven't check these threads since I got the 301 firmware update. My Series3 HD has worked great since the update. I haven't lost a recording or had to reboot the TIVO since. I had no idea it wasn't working for everyone. I thought the problem was solved. I had almost cancelled with Cox before the firmware update. Sorry to hear about that for everyone else. I'm in East Mesa and have two M-cards. I wonder why mine works?


This is only impacting TivoHD units I believe.


----------



## Joel47

andygriffith said:


> Was anyone experiencing a lot of signal loss on Cox NBC HD, 712 in the Phoenix area last night? This is different than the cable card reset issue, it was definitely a signal loss issue. I could switch to my other tuner when the signal disappeared on 712. It also didn't seem to happen on 12, the SD channel. The TiVo didn't lose its buffer on that channel either. It was happening a lot last night, just wondering if anyone else saw that?


I was watching it delayed (so I could fast-forward through the commercials & fluff) and noticed it as well. I thought about switching to 12.1 (OTA), but then I'd have jumped ahead an hour in the broadcast.


----------



## Kershek

BrianAZ said:


> It's not a new physical card, it's new *firmware* for the card. They deploy it to the masses remotely. Once they feel it's ready, the deployment itself would be fairly quick.


It's not like we can tell the Olympics to hold off for a few weeks while they work on the cableCARD problem  I sure hope they can resolve this quickly. So far I've missed a good portion of the Olympics programming as it is, including some of the Phelps gold medal swims.

Thanks to those who are testing and I hope it gets resolved soon.


----------



## andygriffith

BrianAZ said:


> It's not a new physical card, it's new *firmware* for the card. They deploy it to the masses remotely. Once they feel it's ready, the deployment itself would be fairly quick.


I understand and that what I was expecting. I was questioning the original bearer of great news when he made these statements.

"They installed 5 Tivos on the Phoenix Cox network last week *with a card *that supposedly fixes the issue."

"The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and *test this new card *over the next month. "


----------



## herbma

My wife spent an hour talking to a the Tivo Hi Def tech and she didn't even know about the cable card issue here in Phoenix area. She even told us to ask Cox for two S cards. My wife was transfered to a level II rep and basically he told her it was a cox issue and to be patient. We're fed up. We have paid for lifetime on two units. The more expensive unit with two M cards that function as single stream cards works fine. The other unit that has a single M card that installs in the slot in the front. It's the unit that we have all of the continued problems.


----------



## Supermurph

I've had the new firmware since Tuesday and it's working great. This is why I've been the optimistic one on the board this week. I've been contacted repeatedly by Cox and Tivo. They are diligently working together.

I previously did not share this because, as BrianAZ said, the firmware before this was a dud (I also had it for a short period) and Cox/Tivo did not want to spread it to very many people until they knew it worked. 

So, I have no idea what their plans are, but I seriously doubt they are going to wait a month. The person at Tivo I talked to has been emailing me every day to check progress and Cox told me to call them by the end of the week if they don't call me first. So, they also seem eager to resolve this.

I think you can understand that it would be a bigger disaster to roll out a test firmware to a large group of people that are already mad just to have it brick their Tivos. I know the situation with the "301" card makes recording a sketchy proposition, but you can at least watch TV. I'm hopeful like everyone that they've got it. So far so good. So, a fix is coming!


----------



## andygriffith

That is great news!

Roll it out, it sounds a lot more stable than the firmware everyone else has!


----------



## NSlikster

This is great news! 

Now if only Cox and TiVo would provide communication. My experience on TiVo support last night (trying to call their CableCard Hotline) left a very bad taste in my mouth. If not for this forum, I'd feel that this predicament was completely hopeless and I'd be returning my TiVo (against my will mind you).

Communication would make this situation a whole lot different in my mind.


----------



## saibari

NSlikster said:


> This is great news!
> 
> Now if only Cox and TiVo would provide communication. My experience on TiVo support last night (trying to call their CableCard Hotline) left a very bad taste in my mouth. If not for this forum, I'd feel that this predicament was completely hopeless and I'd be returning my TiVo (against my will mind you).
> 
> Communication would make this situation a whole lot different in my mind.


Hopefully what Supermurph reports is a good indicator that they _are_ close to a solution... But I agree, it would be nice if the rest of us got some indication of this "progress" _and_ if the TiVo/Cox reps had a clue about what's going on. ... I also think it's odd that we here in the Phoenix/Tucson area are the only ones having these issues...


----------



## splatt

saibari said:


> Hopefully what Supermurph reports is a good indicator that they _are_ close to a solution... But I agree, it would be nice if the rest of us got some indication of this "progress" _and_ if the TiVo/Cox reps had a clue about what's going on. ... I also think it's odd that we here in the Phoenix/Tucson area are the only ones having these issues...


Yes, it would be very interesting to find out why this is a Phx area issue only.
I have a Series 3 with two S cards and have the 'other' problem where some of the channels in the 30-80 range have annoying pauses that make them unwatchable. Fortunately most of the affected channels I'm interested in now have HD counterparts that do not have this issue.
Is it safe for me to switch to an M card? I've seen some indication in this thread that the M card issue only affects HD units and not Series 3. Is this completely confirmed?
Thx.
Steve
Gilbert, AZ


----------



## JayBird

splatt said:


> Is it safe for me to switch to an M card? I've seen some indication in this thread that the M card issue only affects HD units and not Series 3. Is this completely confirmed?


It appears that _this _problem is limited to M-cards when working in multi-stream mode in a TiVo HD when used on the Cox Arizona cable network.

Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this problem does not affect Series 3 TiVos with M-cards because in a Series 3 the M-cards are working in single-stream mode, not multi-stream mode. Apparently the code paths in the firmware where the bugs exist that have been causing this problem aren't executed when running in single-stream mode.

Also, this problem is localized to the infrastructure of the Cox Arizona cable network. There is clearly something unique about the implementation of the local cable network that randomly causes the cable cards to execute the buggy code. This problem has not been seen in other markets, even other Cox markets, as they all have different cable network implementations.


----------



## Shawn95GT

splatt - I'll see that now and then and if I jump back slightly it goes away. As such it seems to only occur when when I first tune a channel.


----------



## malogus

JayBird said:


> It appears that _this _problem is limited to M-cards when working in multi-stream mode in a TiVo HD when used on the Cox Arizona cable network.
> 
> Others can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this problem does not affect Series 3 TiVos with M-cards because in a Series 3 the M-cards are working in single-stream mode, not multi-stream mode. Apparently the code paths in the firmware where the bugs exist that have been causing this problem aren't executed when running in single-stream mode.
> 
> Also, this problem is localized to the infrastructure of the Cox Arizona cable network. There is clearly something unique about the implementation of the local cable network that randomly causes the cable cards to execute the buggy code. This problem has not been seen in other markets, even other Cox markets, as they all have different cable network implementations.


I would say this is a true statement from my experience. My TivoHD in my bedroom is pretty much spotty on recording and drops/grays out regularly. My Series 3 Tivo in the TV room has had no issues with firmware updates (just pixelation issues)


----------



## saibari

Ok, I'm still experiencing the partial recordings problem but now I'm having the grayed-out channels program too, only worse! Not once, but TWICE today I turned on my TV and found not a subset, but _all_ my channels were gray!!  Luckily, a re-boot solved the problem both times but, come on!!! 

I feel like Charlie Brown--each time I get a new card (and as time goes by) I feel like surely they've figured out what's wrong and surely things will be better (if not fixed)--and then bam, Lucy yanks the ball away yet again! 

And to boot, I've not been able to get my home-entertainment guy to call me back to give me an idea of how much it would cost to re-program my remote for the Cox DVR--cuz it's really looking like I'm gonna have to go that route until they get this thing figured out...


----------



## bowlingblogger

I am starting to have the grey-screen problem here in Tucson as well. It happened yesterday while my girlfriend was in the middle of recording a movie and she got really mad. Maybe we should sue Cox/Tivo for the relationship problems they are causing...


----------



## Rolow

saibari said:


> Ok, I'm still experiencing the partial recordings problem but now I'm having the grayed-out channels program too, only worse! Not once, but TWICE today I turned on my TV and found not a subset, but _all_ my channels were gray!!  Luckily, a re-boot solved the problem both times but, come on!!!
> 
> I feel like Charlie Brown--each time I get a new card (and as time goes by) I feel like surely they've figured out what's wrong and surely things will be better (if not fixed)--and then bam, Lucy yanks the ball away yet again!
> 
> And to boot, I've not been able to get my home-entertainment guy to call me back to give me an idea of how much it would cost to re-program my remote for the Cox DVR--cuz it's really looking like I'm gonna have to go that route until they get this thing figured out...


What remote do you have?

I know its not right but i feel better knowing other people are experiencing the same loss of channels I am.


----------



## saibari

Rolow said:


> What remote do you have?
> 
> I know its not right but i feel better knowing other people are experiencing the same loss of channels I am.


No, you're right--it definitely helps to know you're not alone. The more people having the same problems, the more they'll be motivated to find a solution. I'm afraid though, that even if everyone in the Phoenix/Tucson area were having problems that's still a very small subset of both companies' customer-base. 

I have a URC MX-810 remote. It's not top-of-the-line, but it cost nearly $400 so that was plenty "top-of-the-line" for me! Although now I see it's going for $175 on Amazon!  Just 10 months ago I couldn't find a price lower than $400. I guess that's what happens with electronics. I don't even want to see how much my TV is going for now. ...

Anyway, from what I've read the MX-810 a bear to program--even for professionals. So I wouldn't begin to attempt it myself! I wonder if the Cox DVR could be added as an additional device. This means I wouldn't have to re-programmed once I start using the TiVo again...


----------



## Minx

Glad I found this thread. In my frustration last night of wanting to drop kick the Tivo out the window - I was happy to come across this thread.

Cox of course is coming out to replace our m-CARD which I know is not a solution. we had to tell our 2 Cox reps we have called about the 161-38 error. 

As we speak - i just got a digital error while trying to record and watch Transformers on HBO.

Anyway - the Cox billing department was not helpful and did not offer us any compensation.

I'm going to file a complaint with Cox and Tivo hire ups. We should get something for our troubles.

2 of my movies last night only taped the first 9 minutes of the movie. 

BTW - I'm off of Ray and McClintock in Chandler.


----------



## andygriffith

Can any of the Beta testers give us an update as to how the 304 code is performing? Have there been any issues? The last time any of the testers posted all was going well with the 304 code. If it is still going strong, they should deploy it to everyone ASAP.


----------



## aztivo

now maybe some of you will relax and not think everyone is full of it who try to talk reason into this thread


----------



## TomJHansen

You can tell Tivo that it's this thread that's keeping me from ditching the Cox HD DVR and going with Tivo HD. At some point (when On Demand is turned on), I'm going to unplug the 4 Tivos I have and just go with the Cox DVR.


----------



## extstork

If anyone has an update to when this will be solved, please let us know. I've been through 3 sets of S cards and 6 M cards and still can't get through most recordings without going grey. My wife's griping is about to do me in but I keep telling her a fix is coming soon. Am I right? I live in Gilbert, AZ.


----------



## saibari

aztivo said:


> now maybe some of you will relax and not think everyone is full of it who try to talk reason into this thread


Ok, maybe I missed something. My TiVo is *worse* than it has _ever_ been--multiple partial recordings, stupid error message popping up both while I'm watching live TV and recorded programs (dumping me back to the beginning of the recorded program I was watching--though I suppose I should be grateful that I _had_ a fully recorded program to watch!), and _multiple_ graying out of channels per day necessitating a re-boot. ... So me personally, I'm finding it a bit hard to relax!


----------



## Supermurph

andygriffith said:


> Can any of the Beta testers give us an update as to how the 304 code is performing? Have there been any issues? The last time any of the testers posted all was going well with the 304 code. If it is still going strong, they should deploy it to everyone ASAP.


Still going good over the weekend for me, but I don't know for others. I mentioned this thread to the guy from Tivo and he told me that he doesn't have any date specific information, but they will get this out as soon as they think it's ready. I know that doesn't give you an immediate answer, but if you put yourself in their shoes, I think you can understand that it really is just that.

He said this firmware looks promising so far, but we're testing now and we'll have to see how it goes. They are aware of all of you out there so they're going as quickly as they can. Just a little longer.


----------



## Rolow

Is 728 really bad for anyone else? I haven't got a full recording on USAHD 728 since this hole thing started.
I also wrote to Steve Kim one of the host's of the Engadget HD podcast. He has a tivo hd and lives in Scottsdale but I never got a response.



saibari said:


> No, you're right--it definitely helps to know you're not alone. The more people having the same problems, the more they'll be motivated to find a solution. I'm afraid though, that even if everyone in the Phoenix/Tucson area were having problems that's still a very small subset of both companies' customer-base.
> 
> I have a URC MX-810 remote. It's not top-of-the-line, but it cost nearly $400 so that was plenty "top-of-the-line" for me! Although now I see it's going for $175 on Amazon!  Just 10 months ago I couldn't find a price lower than $400. I guess that's what happens with electronics. I don't even want to see how much my TV is going for now. ...
> 
> Anyway, from what I've read the MX-810 a bear to program--even for professionals. So I wouldn't begin to attempt it myself! I wonder if the Cox DVR could be added as an additional device. This means I wouldn't have to re-programmed once I start using the TiVo again...


I have the mx-850 and its great it took me 3 hours to program it the first time. It was my first time programing any remote so I was a complete noob. I edited the programing every day for the first week to get it exactly how i wanted it.
I don't know any thing about the mx-810 but i say give it a try if you have the software for the remote that is. URC changed there policy after I bought my remote form Showcase. They decided not to give live updates to end user's.


----------



## bweeston

Over this weekend, I conducted a test of my own. I wanted to be able to record without interrruptions the NBC channel of the Olympics. I first tuned to 712 on one tuner and then to 706 on the other tuner. I was able to record channel 712 for over 6 hours without interruption. During the break after 5 P.M. , I changed the other tuner that was on 706 to one of the movie channels - 200. Within an hour, I started getting the cablecard error 161-38 and frozen screens followed by the reset. I also set up recordings on channel 725 which was broadcasting Olympic events from 2 A.M. until 6 A.M. I woke up to partial recordings.

Simultaneously I did this on my other TivoHD. Six hours of continuous recording without interruption or reset or cable card error. Overnight recordings set on channel 725 resulted in partial recordings.

I offer this information to help Cox figure out why there isn't a disruption to local HD channel viewing/recording (using the cablecard) but an obvious disruption when any tuner in a TivoHD unit is tuned to a movie or premium channel.

Has anyone else tested this configuration to isolate the problem to viewing/recording movie or premium channels?

Ben.


----------



## Kershek

Not sure if this helps, but I still receive partial recordings and I don't have any movie / premium channels other than HD.


----------



## jreichjr

bweeston said:


> Simultaneously I did this on my other TivoHD. Six hours of continuous recording without interruption or reset or cable card error. Overnight recordings set on channel 725 resulted in partial recordings.
> 
> I offer this information to help Cox figure out why there isn't a disruption to local HD channel viewing/recording (using the cablecard) but an obvious disruption when any tuner in a TivoHD unit is tuned to a movie or premium channel.
> 
> Has anyone else tested this configuration to isolate the problem to viewing/recording movie or premium channels?
> 
> Ben.


I have a new TIVO HD that is two weeks old. I have Cox Cable in Arizona and a single Multistream Cable Card. The consensus was that TIVO was superior to the SA 8300 box that I have had since HD hit the air but so far I would go with the SA box any day. Very seldom does it mess up a recording..I don't care about the whistles and bells of the TIVO if the thing is not going to work.

I seldom get complete recordings. Never completes any of the Olympics so I cancelled the season passes for them. Even now it will usually stop at 57 or 59 minutes. Sometimes it will get 4 hours on a 4 hour and 30 minute baseball game..but frequently I get 13 minutes or maybe 37 minutes..It never picks up the show and completes the recording. A little glitch in the middle of the program would be much better than only getting 37 minutes of a program. Does anyone know why this thing will not restart a recording? Maybe I missed a setting...

I read somewhere in this forum that Cox Arizona is to have new firmware for the Multistream cards soon but does anyone know when. I think it is to be 3.04. I know a lot of people have been living in cable card nightmare for 7 or 8 months and I have just started the dream but for $750 invested it is not looking good so far.

Does anyone know how to read out the cable card firmware revision? Since Cox does not send a notice when the firmware is updated (I have had HSI for 15 years and have never received firmware update notice) it would be nice to know when the card has been updated so I would know if that is the fix or if I need to take other measures.

All opinions welcome, John


----------



## grimgrinnin

jreichjr said:


> The consensus was that TIVO was superior to the SA 8300 box that I have had since HD hit the air


Bet that's the last time you listen to THAT guy...


----------



## jreichjr

grimgrinnin said:


> Bet that's the last time you listen to THAT guy...


Now Grim (what happend to the grinnin), I weighed many factors before buying my TIVO...I am sure some day it will live up to our expectations..Since your new HD has the same problem as mine and many what many others have reported I am sure it will be fixed.. I just hope it is soooooon....

Keep em flyin.


----------



## saibari

jreichjr said:


> Now Grim (what happend to the grinnin), I weighed many factors before buying my TIVO...I am sure some day it will live up to our expectations..Since your new HD has the same problem as mine and many what many others have reported I am sure it will be fixed.. I just hope it is soooooon....


Ahhh, the innocence of one who is just now beginning to deal with the problem... of one who is not yet jaded and believes that of course these upstanding companies will quickly solve the service problems that so many here in Arizona are experiencing... I remember when I was like that!


----------



## jreichjr

saibari said:


> Ahhh, the innocence of one who is just now beginning to deal with the problem... of one who is not yet jaded and believes that of course these upstanding companies will quickly solve the service problems that so many here in Arizona are experiencing... I remember when I was like that!


I know, I am trying to keep an open mind and hope that the light at the end of the tunnel is not the locomotive comming on fast!!!


----------



## BrianAZ

Supermurph said:


> Still going good over the weekend for me, but I don't know for others. I mentioned this thread to the guy from Tivo and he told me that he doesn't have any date specific information, but they will get this out as soon as they think it's ready. I know that doesn't give you an immediate answer, but if you put yourself in their shoes, I think you can understand that it really is just that.
> 
> He said this firmware looks promising so far, but we're testing now and we'll have to see how it goes. They are aware of all of you out there so they're going as quickly as they can. Just a little longer.


I also posed a similar question to my Tivo contact after several folks requested. The response I received was identical to Supermurph... they won't commit to a date but did stress that this is a top priority to them and they will release it as soon as Cox is comfortable it won't cause additional issues. They would like to do it as soon as possible.


----------



## BrianAZ

jreichjr said:


> Does anyone know why this thing will not restart a recording? Maybe I missed a setting...


You did not miss anything. It does not resume after reset. I won't debate whether it should or not (I agree it would make dealing with this issue a lot easier), I'll just say that the Tivo developers obviously didn't expect the cablecard to be needing a reset multiple times a day.



jreichjr said:


> I read somewhere in this forum that Cox Arizona is to have new firmware for the Multistream cards soon but does anyone know when. I think it is to be 3.04.
> 
> Does anyone know how to read out the cable card firmware revision? Since Cox does not send a notice when the firmware is updated (I have had HSI for 15 years and have never received firmware update notice) it would be nice to know when the card has been updated so I would know if that is the fix or if I need to take other measures.


You read correct (though it's "304, rather than 3.04"). To see what version you have, do the following:

Tivo Button
Messages & Settings
Account & System Information
CableCARD Decoders
Configure CableCARD 1 (MultiStream) - This is assuming you have a single MCard
CableCARD Menu
SA CableCARD Diag Screen
OS Ver: PKEY1.1.12_F.p.0*301*

I'm sure there's a more direct route, but this is how I check it.


----------



## jreichjr

BrianAZ said:


> You did not miss anything. It does not resume after reset. I won't debate whether it should or not (I agree it would make dealing with this issue a lot easier), I'll just say that the Tivo developers obviously didn't expect the cablecard to be needing a reset multiple times a day.
> 
> You read correct (though it's "304, rather than 3.04"). To see what version you have, do the following:
> 
> Tivo Button
> Messages & Settings
> Account & System Information
> CableCARD Decoders
> Configure CableCARD 1 (MultiStream) - This is assuming you have a single MCard
> CableCARD Menu
> SA CableCARD Diag Screen
> OS Ver: PKEY1.1.12_F.p.0*301*
> 
> I'm sure there's a more direct route, but this is how I check it.


Excellent, Thanks Brian, Mine of course is 301 so I will be looking forward to seeing 304 show up. Just checked my tune status and I have a whopping 6000 seconds or 1 hour and 40 minutes since the last tune. That is about normal from what I have seen. Once I actually had about 3.5 hours but of course I wasn't recording anything at the time..

Thanks again Brian.


----------



## bweeston

Kershek said:


> Not sure if this helps, but I still receive partial recordings and I don't have any movie / premium channels other than HD.


Channels above 715 are considered premium HD channels. So if you are getting partial recordings on 721, 725, 728, etc, that's what I was getting at. If you tune both tuners to the local HD channels (703, 705, 709, 712, etc) you should not get partial recordings. At least I didn't until changing one of the tuners to 725 which is not a local HD channel.

Ben.


----------



## jreichjr

bweeston said:


> Channels above 715 are considered premium HD channels. So if you are getting partial recordings on 721, 725, 728, etc, that's what I was getting at. If you tune both tuners to the local HD channels (703, 705, 709, 712, etc) you should not get partial recordings. At least I didn't until changing one of the tuners to 725 which is not a local HD channel.
> 
> Ben.


Thanks Ben, that is interesting.
My partials were on 712 and 60. So if I record on 712 and watch live say on 715 or 8 then for some reason the cable card will be happy and not reset?

Thanks again, John


----------



## asualumni03

Update: After not hearing back from Cox on my initial complaint through their website, I sent a complaint to the email addresses provided (Ivan and Steve) on Sunday. I received calls from a team lead at Cox yesterday and today. He confirmed that reps from Cisco, TiVo and SA are in Phoenix working on this issue. They have isolated the problem and are writing new code now. They hope to be able to roll it out in a few days (no guarantees). Note : The updates he provides to me come from the Interactive Services Department at Cox. I won't hear back from him until Monday - I'll let you all know what I find out.


----------



## saibari

jreichjr said:


> Thanks Ben, that is interesting.
> My partials were on 712 and 60. So if I record on 712 and watch live say on 715 or 8 then for some reason the cable card will be happy and not reset?
> 
> Thanks again, John


Don't get too excited. I've had problems (of all sorts!) regardless of the channels I'm tuned to. <sigh> Right now I seem to be losing all channels at least twice per day; so far they come back after a re-boot. And, of course, I'm still experiencing just as many partial recordings and error messages as always! 

By the way, how do you check "*tune status*"? Will that let me know how long it's been since a signal loss, even if I wasn't recording anything at the time. Right now I'm gauging this by the number of partial recordings and how many times I notice it while watching live tv...

And by the way, just now that &*^%$*# 161-38 error message popped up again. I'm watching a recorded program, so oh joy, when I press select to get the *#&! message off my screen, it'll dump me back at the beginning of the recording. <sigh> ... Of course, the only reason I _have_ a recording to watch is because I happened to get home right before the program aired, turned on the TV and saw that all channels were grey (yet again!). I had to re-boot and then manually start the recording, missing the first 8 minutes of the show.


----------



## Minx

well..my Cox service guy is here..replaced the M-Card and...Grey screen of death! 

He can't get it working with a new M-Card (didn't want to tell him I told you so)..

sigh..guess it's time to send a few emails..


----------



## saibari

Minx said:


> well..my Cox service guy is here..replaced the M-Card and...Grey screen of death!
> 
> He can't get it working with a new M-Card (didn't want to tell him I told you so)..
> 
> sigh..guess it's time to send a few emails..


You mean he couldn't get it working and just gave up and left?! I've been debating when to call and have them come out again. The situation has gotten pretty ridiculous. It's gotten so every time I turn on the TV I hold my breath because I don't know whether or not there'll be any channels!


----------



## Minx

He didn't leave.. he was gone for a while - I assume calling into corporate. He said he had them remove and then add back the cable card to my account.

Good news - all the cable channels showed up again (all the HD ones)

Bad news. 2 hours later - 161-38 error.

He was here for an hour and then said it was fixed. 

My husband's turn to call Cox to complain.


----------



## jreichjr

saibari said:


> Don't get too excited. I've had problems (of all sorts!) regardless of the channels I'm tuned to. <sigh> Right now I seem to be losing all channels at least twice per day; so far they come back after a re-boot. And, of course, I'm still experiencing just as many partial recordings and error messages as always!
> 
> By the way, how do you check "*tune status*"? Will that let me know how long it's been since a signal loss, even if I wasn't recording anything at the time. Right now I'm gauging this by the number of partial recordings and how many times I notice it while watching live tv...
> 
> And by the way, just now that &*^%$*# 161-38 error message popped up again. I'm watching a recorded program, so oh joy, when I press select to get the *#&! message off my screen, it'll dump me back at the beginning of the recording. <sigh> ... Of course, the only reason I _have_ a recording to watch is because I happened to get home right before the program aired, turned on the TV and saw that all channels were grey (yet again!). I had to re-boot and then manually start the recording, missing the first 8 minutes of the show.


Tune Status or last successfull tune time counter is on the second page of DVR diagnostics, which I believe is under messages and settings, account and system information,


----------



## BrianAZ

FYI that the testing of fw 304 has appearantly entered it's next stage. I received it at some point today (verfied remotely via slingbox just now). I have no idea when it was delivered, but the prior version broke my Tivo w/in 90 minutes. So far, everything seems to be working well. I have marked the time and will monitor my recordings over the next 24-72 hours and report back if I've got any partials that day.

Everyone send their good juju


----------



## andygriffith

jreichjr said:


> Tune Status or last successfull tune time counter is on the second page of DVR diagnostics, which I believe is under messages and settings, account and system information,


Doesn't tune status and its associated number of seconds simply measure the number of seconds since that tuner tuned to the existing channel that it is on? Change the channel and it will reset. You can only use this as a measurement if you don't change one of your tuners. Am I wrong?


----------



## ksalwitz

Well I just caught up with everything going on here and I'm glad that they didn't take my HD Tivo back right away. I haven't heard back from them in two weeks. However I see that BrianAZ has been (as others) involved in some testing of the Beta (alpha ;-)) firmware version of the mcard. I had gone to the cox store got an HD box and moved my series 2 into the family room. I've been staring forlornly at my HD Tivo sitting on the fireplace mantle. I plan to have Cox come out and put in a new mcard later this week. Hopefully it won't take too much longer to get the "fix" out for the m card firmware. Thanks for the update Brian and we're all just going to have to hope that Tivo and Cox really are serious (finally) about this issue.

Cheers


----------



## NSlikster

jreichjr said:


> I don't care about the whistles and bells of the TIVO if the thing is not going to work.
> 
> I seldom get complete recordings. Never completes any of the Olympics so I cancelled the season passes for them. Even now it will usually stop at 57 or 59 minutes. Sometimes it will get 4 hours on a 4 hour and 30 minute baseball game..but frequently I get 13 minutes or maybe 37 minutes..It never picks up the show and completes the recording... All opinions welcome, John


I've been lamenting this for the past 10 days. Since I used to use the Series 2 TiVo and in fours years lost only a tiny little handful of recordings and never due to TiVo issue, *why the TiVo HD recordings cannot pick back up after the cablecard outage*. I'm not sure what makes this hard from a technical standpoint...

I look forward to both issues being fixed, of course, or the one issue depending on how you look at it, and look forward to the promising results we're hearing about on this forum. But if there were a possible update from TiVo that would correct this now, I think it would make the wait far more bearable. Not being able to rely on the DVR has made the past 2 weeks of TiVo HD kind of like the days before TiVo when you had to remember to set the VCR, and adjust your schedule to meet the demands of TV, instead of the modern approach of watching TV when its convenient for you.

My biggest gripe, still, is the complete disconnect between the folks that are working on this issue, and folks that are supporting us through it. The fact that they are still recommending cablecard replacement, telling us to call Cox/TiVo, sending Cox technicians to our homes, cross-shipping new TiVo's when there are some service charges for this is ridiculous, especially when everyone at both companies is "_so closely monitoring this thread_." Also, it would be nice to get a month (or more for the folks that have been going through this for many months) comped as well for our troubles, and for sticking it through. Think of it as a public apology to their customers for enduring this issue or like a recall where a company publicly admits to an issue and takes some responsibility for the resolution instead of quietly fixing the issue and issuing ZERO statements about it publicly.

However, again, sounds like a promising fix is in the pipeline and that perhaps this issue may finally be put to rest. At that time, you'll probably start loving your TiVo HD like my wife and I loved our Series 2 and like we look forward to loving our HD...<Crosses fingers>


----------



## BrianAZ

BrianAZ said:


> FYI that the testing of fw 304 has appearantly entered it's next stage. I received it at some point today (verfied remotely via slingbox just now). I have no idea when it was delivered, but the prior version broke my Tivo w/in 90 minutes. So far, everything seems to be working well. I have marked the time and will monitor my recordings over the next 24-72 hours and report back if I've got any partials that day.
> 
> Everyone send their good juju


So far so good. No partials and I've not noticed anything out of the ordinary. Next update tomorrow evening.


----------



## jreichjr

andygriffith said:


> Doesn't tune status and its associated number of seconds simply measure the number of seconds since that tuner tuned to the existing channel that it is on? Change the channel and it will reset. You can only use this as a measurement if you don't change one of your tuners. Am I wrong?


Andy, you may have something there. I just checked the counters and one was at 15000 and the other was at 8500. Changed viewing channels and the first one reset...the second one stayed at 8500+ and counting. Started a recording, and still the same...Started a second recording and sure enough the second counter reset...There is one other that has a large count of 57 hours (after converting the seconds). It is OOB tune start. Does anyone know what that one is for?

Hopefully the fix is "in the can" and we will all have it soon and I won't have to look for clues as to why my TIVO doesn't work right since it will be working perfectly in a few days?


----------



## YazooWho

BrianAZ said:


> So far so good. No partials and I've not noticed anything out of the ordinary. Next update tomorrow evening.


FYI.. Same here..Another day without partials. I have been trying to get partials by setting shows to record almost every hour or other hour. So far so good.


----------



## bweeston

jreichjr said:


> Thanks Ben, that is interesting.
> My partials were on 712 and 60. So if I record on 712 and watch live say on 715 or 8 then for some reason the cable card will be happy and not reset?
> 
> Thanks again, John


The short answer as far as I'm concerned is "Yes".

In my experience, I have successfully recorded 7 or more hours of channel 712 Olympics on one tuner while watching or leaving the other tuner on channel 706. If either of the tuners is set on a movie channel or premium HD channel outside of the local HD channels while I'm watching or recording the Olympics on channel 712, I will get cablecard errors, frozen screens, and partial recordings.

Ben.


----------



## saibari

bweeston said:


> The short answer as far as I'm concerned is "Yes".
> 
> In my experience, I have successfully recorded 7 or more hours of channel 712 Olympics on one tuner while watching or leaving the other tuner on channel 706. If either of the tuners is set on a movie channel or premium HD channel outside of the local HD channels while I'm watching or recording the Olympics on channel 712, I will get cablecard errors, frozen screens, and partial recordings...


Interesting... anyone else have this experience? I sure wish that were the case for me... My TiVo acts up no matter what channels I'm tuned to.  And, as I've commented many times (I know), it's been worse than ever for me. Anyone else have that experience or are the TiVo/Cox gods simply mad at me for complaining so much?!


----------



## saibari

NSlikster said:


> ... Also, it would be nice to get a month (or more for the folks that have been going through this for many months) comped as well for our troubles, and for sticking it through. Think of it as a public apology to their customers for enduring this issue or like a recall where a company publicly admits to an issue and takes some responsibility for the resolution instead of quietly fixing the issue and issuing ZERO statements about it publicly....


Most definitely! My advice to all is to demand a refund for however many months you've endured this completely outrageous situation... AND anyone who has turned to a Cox DVR in frustration until this problem is fixed should also demand that they not have to pay for this "privilege"... Just my advice...


----------



## JayBird

Anybody notice this for sale on ebay?

The most interesting thing to note is the screen shot near the bottom...

Zip code 85259 (Scottsdale), Cox Communications...

Looks like yet another TiVo customer in AZ who was fed up with this problem and has said goodbye to TiVo...

Oh, and I just found another one.

This one is zip 85043 (Phoenix), and again Cox Communications. This seller dumped TiVo and Cox for satellite.

It's time to stop the bleeding!


----------



## BrianAZ

Going on 21 hours w/ no partials or other issues....


----------



## YazooWho

BrianAZ said:


> Going on 21 hours w/ no partials or other issues....


Same here.. No partials or other issues for over several days now. This build is looking good.


----------



## jreichjr

YazooWho said:


> Same here.. No partials or other issues for over several days now. This build is looking good.


Perfect, Lets Ship It....Gotta be better than what we have now....Dear Cox.........Please, Please pretty please......Ship It....


----------



## ksalwitz

jreichjr said:


> Perfect, Lets Ship It....Gotta be better than what we have now....Dear Cox.........Please, Please pretty please......Ship It....


I've been working in the software industry for a long time. Firmware is not very different. It takes a certain amount of solid testing before you ship a new release to your customers, or you could make things worse. As BrianAz indicated his first update disabled his TIVO completely. As trite as it sounds we need to be patient and let them decide when it's ready to ship. Thanks to the participants in the Beta (Alpha? heh) testing for keeping us updated. I have the Cox folks coming out Friday to re-install an m-card so that I'm ready to receive the update when it comes out.

Ken


----------



## YazooWho

ksalwitz said:


> I've been working in the software industry for a long time. Firmware is not very different. It takes a certain amount of solid testing before you ship a new release to your customers, or you could make things worse. As BrianAz indicated his first update disabled his TIVO completely. As trite as it sounds we need to be patient and let them decide when it's ready to ship. Thanks to the participants in the Beta (Alpha? heh) testing for keeping us updated. I have the Cox folks coming out Friday to re-install an m-card so that I'm ready to receive the update when it comes out.
> 
> Ken


I agree completely. I got the same update that BrianAZ received that rendered the unit completley useless. It was funny becuase I was told, "Hey we found a solution" and then BAMM, it was a dud.

So far this update has been very stable for me and I have had about 15 recordings in the past few days without a single issue. I am confident this will be resolved soon and we will all be back to normal.


----------



## andygriffith

ksalwitz said:


> I've been working in the software industry for a long time. Firmware is not very different. It takes a certain amount of solid testing before you ship a new release to your customers, or you could make things worse. As BrianAz indicated his first update disabled his TIVO completely. As trite as it sounds we need to be patient and let them decide when it's ready to ship. Thanks to the participants in the Beta (Alpha? heh) testing for keeping us updated. I have the Cox folks coming out Friday to re-install an m-card so that I'm ready to receive the update when it comes out.
> 
> Ken


I agree, but where was the solid testing done before 301 was shipped to us?


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> I agree, but where was the solid testing done before 301 was shipped to us?


Excellent question!



YazooWho said:


> ...So far this update has been very stable for me and I have had about 15 recordings in the past few days without a single issue. I am confident this will be resolved soon and we will all be back to normal.


Wish I could be confident too, but at this point I just have no confidence in either company whatsoever... <sigh> ... However, I certainly hope you're right, Yazoo! Although as far as I'm concerned, once they do roll-out a solution that works it will not be "_back _to normal" for me, it will be ... "Finally, for the _first_ time since I installed my TiVo-HD 10 months ago, it works without a hitch!"


----------



## BrianAZ

andygriffith said:


> I agree, but where was the solid testing done before 301 was shipped to us?


GOOD POINT!! . Hopefully Cox learned their lesson. I can't even imagine how much this is costing them since their "solution" has been to dispatch a truck over and over and over and over and over and over and over for something a truck roll can't fix. Then again, I still see posts from people who are being told they need one so who knows.


----------



## YazooWho

andygriffith said:


> I agree, but where was the solid testing done before 301 was shipped to us?


If I recall correctly, the 301 update was tested in another market (Vegas?)and has been stable in other markets without issues since its rolled out. When it was rolled out in AZ however, thats when they discovered the bug.


----------



## BrianAZ

YazooWho said:


> If I recall correctly, the 301 update was tested in another market (Vegas?)and has been stable in other markets without issues since its rolled out. When it was rolled out in AZ however, thats when they discovered the bug.


True. They made an assumption that the infrastructure was identical or similar enough between here and Vegas. Obviously they'll need to rethink that going forward


----------



## andygriffith

BrianAZ said:


> True. They made an assumption that the infrastructure was identical or similar enough between here and Vegas. Obviously they'll need to rethink that going forward


Yeah, rethink it or make it identical.


----------



## mamatara

Tech coming at 3 to give me the ::gag:: Cox DVR. I was thinking about running both my HD TiVo and the DVR off the same coax just so I'd know when the update happened and I didn't have to wait for the truck to get here with another cable card. I absolutely abhor the Cox DVR, so I don't want to be stuck with it any longer than I need to. So, my question is, can I do this? Has anyone tried it?

Thanks for the info,
Tara


----------



## BrianAZ

mamatara said:


> Tech coming at 3 to give me the ::gag:: Cox DVR. I was thinking about running both my HD TiVo and the DVR off the same coax just so I'd know when the update happened and I didn't have to wait for the truck to get here with another cable card. I absolutely abhor the Cox DVR, so I don't want to be stuck with it any longer than I need to. So, my question is, can I do this? Has anyone tried it?
> 
> Thanks for the info,
> Tara


I did for a while because the they wouldn't turn on the hockey package for my CableCard. Seemed to work fine, though I believe it would be somewhat dependent on how many times your feed is split elsewhere. Someone with 10 TVs may have issues where someone with two off 1 coax may not. But I think you'll be ok. I have Cox phone, internet and TV (4).


----------



## jreichjr

mamatara said:


> Tech coming at 3 to give me the ::gag:: Cox DVR. I was thinking about running both my HD TiVo and the DVR off the same coax just so I'd know when the update happened and I didn't have to wait for the truck to get here with another cable card. I absolutely abhor the Cox DVR, so I don't want to be stuck with it any longer than I need to. So, my question is, can I do this? Has anyone tried it?
> 
> Thanks for the info,
> Tara


Should be ok. I have the Cox Box and my new TIVO with digi phone modem and HSI modem and one "naked TV" so I guess I have about 4 splits.

Soon please soon it will work..

I really feel for all the people that have had the HD TIVO's for 10 months..I don't think I could be patient that long...

Cheers, John


----------



## YazooWho

jreichjr said:


> I really feel for all the people that have had the HD TIVO's for 10 months..I don't think I could be patient that long...
> 
> Cheers, John


I have had both the THD and S3 for over 10 mths and it wasn't until recently that the THD was having issues with the channels and partials. At least mine.. not sure about others.


----------



## saibari

YazooWho said:


> I have had both the THD and S3 for over 10 mths and it wasn't until recently that the THD was having issues with the channels and partials. At least mine.. not sure about others.


Right. The partial-recordings problem started within the last month. Prior to that I had the "grayed-out subset of channels every 2 to 3 days" problem. And prior to that I had the awful "audio/video synch" problem that rendered many program unwatchable (both live and recorded). That was back in Oct when I first got the TiVo-HD and I was using 2 single-stream cards. I switched over to one multi-stream card to solve that problem and, well... you all know how that worked out! But even given the current issues, I won't go back to the 2 single-stream cards because the a/v synch problem still exists and at least they're working on a solution to the current m-card problem...

*Question for those of you having the TiVo HD longer than 10 months*--have there always been problems of one sort or another with the m-cards? Has anyone _ever_ had completely trouble-free service with their TiVo HD?


----------



## saibari

Thought you all might be interested in this quote from David Pogue's Aug 7 column (technology writer for NY Times):

* TiVo. I bit the bullet and bought the Tivo Series 3, the hi-def masterpiece machine (which has, grrr, already been discontinued). _*Runs like a Swiss watch, has never let us down.*_ [emphasis mine] Still the best DVR software and features on the planet. Subscribes to my favorite Web videos. When Im away, I can program it from across the Internet.​
<sigh> Nice to know it's actually possible to love your hi-def TiVo. Of course, he's talking about the Series 3, which I understand isn't having problems...


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> *Question for those of you having the TiVo HD longer than 10 months*--have there always been problems of one sort or another with the m-cards? Has anyone _ever_ had completely trouble-free service with their TiVo HD?


I got mine last December, and opened a case up with TiVo in January for the authorization / grey channel loss problem. I wish I would have known about this forum then, since I was dealing with it on my own since then. I only found this forum after searching the net for the symptoms I was seeing with the firmware upgrade. It definitely helps knowing you aren't alone and I am hopeful that they will give everyone the firmware soon that the beta testers say isn't causing any issues.


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> Thought you all might be interested in this quote from David Pogue's Aug 7 column (technology writer for NY Times):
> 
> * TiVo. I bit the bullet and bought the Tivo Series 3, the hi-def masterpiece machine (which has, grrr, already been discontinued). _*Runs like a Swiss watch, has never let us down.*_ [emphasis mine] Still the best DVR software and features on the planet. Subscribes to my favorite Web videos. When Im away, I can program it from across the Internet.​
> <sigh> Nice to know it's actually possible to love your hi-def TiVo. Of course, he's talking about the Series 3, which I understand isn't having problems...


I think one of the beta testers, YazooWho has a S3 and is experiencing the problem, or was prior to the 304 firmware that he has.


----------



## aztivo

my S3 had problems with the Single Steem cards but when the tech didnt have any we put 2 multi stream cards in and have not had a single issue in over 6 weeks


----------



## Supermurph

I bought mine last summer after I was having freezing issues on the Cox DVR (ironically enough). It worked perfectly at for the first few months and then I started getting the blackout that required a reboot around Oct or Nov and it's been problems ever since. So, yes .... I think it works great other than this key issue.

By the way ...... the test firmware is still going great. Not one freeze that I'm aware of and no partial recordings.


----------



## BrianAZ

Same here. Not a single hiccup since 304 and I avg maybe 25-35 recordings on a busy day.


----------



## andygriffith

BrianAZ said:


> Same here. Not a single hiccup since 304 and I avg maybe 25-35 recordings on a busy day.


May I ask how you have time to watch that much TV? Wow!


----------



## AZrob

saibari said:


> Right. The partial-recordings problem started within the last month. Prior to that I had the "grayed-out subset of channels every 2 to 3 days" problem. And prior to that I had the awful "audio/video synch" problem that rendered many program unwatchable (both live and recorded). That was back in Oct when I first got the TiVo-HD and I was using 2 single-stream cards. I switched over to one multi-stream card to solve that problem and, well... you all know how that worked out! But even given the current issues, I won't go back to the 2 single-stream cards because the a/v synch problem still exists and at least they're working on a solution to the current m-card problem...
> 
> *Question for those of you having the TiVo HD longer than 10 months*--have there always been problems of one sort or another with the m-cards? Has anyone _ever_ had completely trouble-free service with their TiVo HD?


Sorry to say, since I've been a Tivo-ite since 1999, but the 10 months I've owned my Tivo HD have NEVER been trouble-free. Of course, I live in Phoenix, which seems to be ground zero for Tivo HD Hell.

Rob


----------



## saibari

AZrob said:


> Sorry to say, since I've been a Tivo-ite since 1999, but the 10 months I've owned my Tivo HD have NEVER been trouble-free. Of course, I live in Phoenix, which seems to be ground zero for Tivo HD Hell.
> 
> Rob


I wonder about that. I find it hard to believe that we in the Phoenix/Tucson area could be so uniquely unlucky. Does the rest of the country really have no issues at all? ... Actually, now that I think about it, I think the other thread that spawned this one did have a few people from other parts of the country having similar issues...


----------



## BrianAZ

andygriffith said:


> May I ask how you have time to watch that much TV? Wow!


I don't. That's part of the beauty of Tivo's Wishlists... you just tell it what categories you like (say HDocumentary & HD:Science & Nature) and have it autorecord them all. I have one of the 500GB MyDVR drives so it doesn't get full. I just skim through when there's nothing "good" on and usually I'll find something cool I'm interested in. After a period of time, the recordings are replaced with new ones.


----------



## BenStein

So what does it take to get this 304 update, or do we just have to wait till it comes out of beta?


----------



## BrianAZ

BenStein said:


> So what does it take to get this 304 update, or do we just have to wait till it comes out of beta?


Some folks have had success emailing Cox/Tivo reps (though I imagine they've received a huge amount since this began). You will find the Cox reps in this thread.


----------



## ksalwitz

BrianAZ said:


> True. They made an assumption that the infrastructure was identical or similar enough between here and Vegas. Obviously they'll need to rethink that going forward


I agree that the 301 roll out was a total fubar. Hopefully Cox has learned that you test plan needs to be much better next time and take the infrastructure issue in to account. I would have to believe (hope) based on the money that this issue is costing them that someone is being held accountable for this fiasco and that the next time the process will be seamless and invisible to the end consumers.


----------



## Kershek

Well, the damage was done with the Olympics, and we had a ton of disappointing cut off recordings. They really need to get a working version to us before the fall TV premieres start.


----------



## BenStein

Almost every single olympic recording my TiVo has done was cut off. Some with as little as 10 minutes of footage. It's a tad frustrating when the sport you wanted to see was after the hour long softball game, and TiVo decides to kill the recording in the last inning.


----------



## Lovak

I've had my TiVoHD since January with the loss of channel problem as well. Then I moved into my brother's place and discontinued the cablecard service temporarily until I moved into my new house mid-July (was being built). Almost immediately the greyed out channel problem was gone and replaced with this one, so I assumed (and this thread confirmed) the problem was with the firmware release during the 6-7 weeks I was without service.

And you are all right about the problem being sporadic. I am still on 301 and close to 95&#37; of my recordings the past week have been flawless (as compared to days when it was near 100% loss). Wierd. Glad to hear the 304 update has been working flawlessly for you guys, and I hope it hits us sooner rather than later.


----------



## crofford

On a scale of 1 - 10, my hate for DirecTV is about 20. It's a long story, and it started with me actually trying to give DTV even more money, but after 15 years I cancelled my service today. My knee-jerk reaction I assumed would be ok because I would just buy a couple of Tivo Series 3's and call up Cox and order the full boat. Oh my gosh, I've now run across this thread!
Is this 304 update I'm reading about, something that a tech comes and installs? I only see one post of someone that has it applied. Should I hold off on getting the (now I hear) Tivo HD?


----------



## JayBird

A few people on this thread have the 304 firmware. They are part of a very limited test group that are providing real user testing of the update.

The 304 firmware update will be installed automatically once it's made available for widespread distribution by Cox. No truck roll will be required (but one _*is*_ required to get the cable cards initially installed).

The issue only affects TiVo HDs with a single multi-stream cable card (m-card) in the Cox AZ market. It does not affect original Series 3 TiVos, or TiVo HDs with dual single-stream cable cards (s-cards). However, s-cards have their own issues, and you can't get them anyway since Cox no longer stocks them.

Although the 304 testing is going well, there is no estimate from Cox or TiVo of when it will be made publicly available. They want to get the fix to all of us ASAP, but they don't want mud in their face again after issuing 301 without sufficient testing. But assuming no other problems are found with 304, I can't imagine that it will be a whole lot longer before it's distributed to the masses.


----------



## saibari

crofford said:


> On a scale of 1 - 10, my hate for DirecTV is about 20. It's a long story, and it started with me actually trying to give DTV even more money, but after 15 years I cancelled my service today. My knee-jerk reaction I assumed would be ok because I would just buy a couple of Tivo Series 3's and call up Cox and order the full boat. Oh my gosh, I've now run across this thread!
> Is this 304 update I'm reading about, something that a tech comes and installs? I only see one post of someone that has it applied. Should I hold off on getting the (now I hear) Tivo HD?


If you have another option that you can use while you wait, I suggest waiting until 304 is released and is shown to be trouble-free. I'm hoping it won't be long now. <sigh> As I write this, I just experienced another signal drop. ... Although I have to say that over the past day or so it _has_ gotten better. I haven't had all my channels gray out and have had only about 2 partial recordings per day (out of 10 or so recordings/day) ... But who knows how long that will last. We've not been able to figure out the vagaries of the partial recording and channel drop occurrences... amz


----------



## jreichjr

rtmcmjr said:


> Hey all .... after all my complaining on this board I want to report some good news. After Tivo got a hold of my letter (see several posts above) today I received a phone call from a high level tech at Tivo.
> 
> He explained to me the problem and also explained it is isolated to Cox in Phoenix. He said they are working feverishly to fix it and believes they are really close to a permanent fix. He explained to me that a couple Tivo techs are stationed at Cox in Phoenix right now. They installed 5 Tivos on the Phoenix Cox network last week with a card that supposedly fixes the issue. He said in the past 7 days .. no problems or anything.
> 
> The best part, he as added me along with 9 other people to a special test group and I'll get personal service from both Cox and Tivo and test this new card over the next month.
> 
> So my letter writing worked. They do care


Man That Is Great For You...A month away for the rest of us? Geez I sure hope not..

COX I need my 304 firmware and I need it NOW...

Sorry about the vent, JR


----------



## andygriffith

jreichjr said:


> Man That Is Great For You...A month away for the rest of us? Geez I sure hope not..
> 
> COX I need my 304 firmware and I need it NOW...
> 
> Sorry about the vent, JR


+1, I want it now, let me beta test!


----------



## bowlingblogger

Me three on the beta testing!

I see that several of you have been having good luck with no resets over the past day or two--me neither. I was flabbergasted to wake up to a complete three-hour recording of boxing I taped last night on Universal HD. Knock on wood...oh, what's the use. Today will probably be horrible.


----------



## hddude55

JayBird said:


> A few people on this thread have the 304 firmware. They are part of a very limited test group that are providing real user testing of the update.
> 
> The 304 firmware update will be installed automatically once it's made available for widespread distribution by Cox. No truck roll will be required (but one _*is*_ required to get the cable cards initially installed).
> 
> The issue only affects TiVo HDs with a single multi-stream cable card (m-card) in the Cox AZ market. It does not affect original Series 3 TiVos, or TiVo HDs with dual single-stream cable cards (s-cards). However, s-cards have their own issues, and you can't get them anyway since Cox no longer stocks them.
> 
> Although the 304 testing is going well, there is no estimate from Cox or TiVo of when it will be made publicly available. They want to get the fix to all of us ASAP, but they don't want mud in their face again after issuing 301 without sufficient testing. But assuming no other problems are found with 304, I can't imagine that it will be a whole lot longer before it's distributed to the masses.


Swell. Update 301 is working OK on my series 3 and now I'm going to be "upgraded." I can imagine it will fix some issues and create a whole batch of new ones.


----------



## Roderigo

hddude55 said:


> Swell. Update 301 is working OK on my series 3 and now I'm going to be "upgraded." I can imagine it will fix some issues and create a whole batch of new ones.


So, you're not in the camp that wanted cox to revert to the previous firmware version


----------



## jayceeaz

crofford said:


> On a scale of 1 - 10, my hate for DirecTV is about 20. It's a long story, and it started with me actually trying to give DTV even more money, but after 15 years I cancelled my service today. My knee-jerk reaction I assumed would be ok because I would just buy a couple of Tivo Series 3's and call up Cox and order the full boat. Oh my gosh, I've now run across this thread!
> Is this 304 update I'm reading about, something that a tech comes and installs? I only see one post of someone that has it applied. Should I hold off on getting the (now I hear) Tivo HD?


This is a story torn from the pages of my great book of disdain.

Segue: I had been a DirecTV customer since 1999 as well, and while they were always willing to offer me an upgrade to HD, it meant losing my TiVO-based DVR, which I was not willing to do (hey, I love TiVo more than I hate DirecTV). However, the perk of being a customer since '99 was that I got to pay $799 after being on a 6-mo waiting list while new customers got their 4-room HD DVR setups for $99 installed within 2 days. The story ended with me caving in, getting their horrible DVR, but great HD service... and $300 shelled out. However, I just could not live with whatever the heck that DVR was, and within 14 days called to cancel. I got a bill from DirecTV for $460 for "early termination" of my 2-year contract. After I recovered from my cardiac arrest, I shoved everything DirecTV into a box and mailed it to them and called Cox. I bought a TiVo HD DVR, and before even getting a cable signal, loved it. I will >never< use another DVR unless I build it myself...

However, the nightmare was just beginning. As I read through this thread, I am literally sick to my stomach that it's not just a fault DVR I bought, or a bad cable card, or something about the area I live in (east of Queen Creek)... instead, I am reading that there is a very well known issue that "they are working on".

I have to ask, are they working on this problem as hard as their billing department works when you are 2 days late with a payment? Color me bitter, but I have lost so much of my desire to even watch television (writers strike + 20 other odd things with trying to move into the digital age), I am just about to cancel everything, shut it all down, and stream.

FYI, I am using the TiVo HD DVR (S3) + 1 MCard (Scientific Atlanta). Cox insists it is a TiVo problem. TiVo (who could tell me the sky is green and I would believe them) says it is a signal delivery problem. Every call to Cox starts with "we may have to bill you for the tech to come out" which just makes me giggle when I see the number of customer complaints about THIS VERY PROBLEM everywhere I "google".

Anyway, I will now back-track through this thread and see if I can be fortunate enough to deserve a 100% fix that others seem to believe exists. Thank you for posting your stories, I no longer feel I am alone.

VERY angry in QC
John


----------



## jayceeaz

Oh, sans editorial... I forgot to mention a most amazing coincidence that I am also trying to scan this thread for... but my recording interruptions or general signal loss is nearly like clock work - exactly at 0:22 minutes into an hour, or 0:52 minutes. Nearly every show that is chopped up is either at one of these lengths, or at the devastating 0:01 (Partial) length 

I am hoping someone else has noticed this as well. I just checked my version, and my SA MCard is indeed at 301. I hope the fix is moments away, before I completely flip out and break something.


----------



## jebbbz

I, too, have noticed many 0:01 partials and many 0:52 (or so) partials. I haven't paid enough attention to recall 0:22 partials.


----------



## saibari

jayceeaz said:


> Oh, sans editorial... I forgot to mention a most amazing coincidence that I am also trying to scan this thread for... but my recording interruptions or general signal loss is nearly like clock work - exactly at 0:22 minutes into an hour, or 0:52 minutes. Nearly every show that is chopped up is either at one of these lengths, or at the devastating 0:01 (Partial) length
> 
> I am hoping someone else has noticed this as well. I just checked my version, and my SA MCard is indeed at 301. I hope the fix is moments away, before I completely flip out and break something.


I happen to have jotted down most of my partials over the past month, and while I do have a few 22's and 52's, they're really all over the place... Here are the one's I've jotted down. While the signal had dropped while I was watching live tv a few times this weekend, I've not jotted it down and I've not yet checked my recordings for the weekend...

Sun 8/3 - 12:55AM, 1:56AM, 11:30AM, 8:00PM
Mon 8/4 - 5:59AM, 10:36AM, 11:55AM, 11:56AM,11:57AM,4:45pm,5:55pm, 9:30pm
Tue 8/5 - 8:32PM,9:51PM,
Wed 8/6 - 9:58PM
Thu 8/7 - 9:22AM, 1:56PM
FRI 8/8 - 12:58PM,5:06PM
SAT 8/9 - 4:29AM,10:23AM,3:52PM,5:26PM, 9:54PM
SUN 8/10 - 10:31PM
FRI 8/15 1:25PM, 6:23, 9:14
Sat 8/16 10:23AM,9:27PM,11:42, 
Sun 8/17 6:31PM,9:57PM,10:32PM,11:53, 
Mon 8/18 1:23PM;2:00PM
Tue 8/19 1:04PM;2:03PM;9:57PM
Wed 8/20 10:24AM;11:33;1:54PM;2:23;3:59
Thu 8/21 9:30PM
Fri 8/23 9:03AM,6:52PM,


----------



## saibari

jayceeaz said:


> This is a story torn from the pages of my great book of disdain. ...
> 
> ... The story ended with me caving in, getting their horrible DVR, but great HD service... and $300 shelled out. However, I just could not live with whatever the heck that DVR was, and within 14 days called to cancel. I got a bill from DirecTV for $460 for "early termination" of my 2-year contract. After I recovered from my cardiac arrest, I shoved everything DirecTV into a box and mailed it to them and called Cox. I bought a TiVo HD DVR, and before even getting a cable signal, loved it. I will >never< use another DVR unless I build it myself...


Wow! Unbelievable! I hope you were able to get out of paying the $460 early termination fee. Don't they have a time period during which you can evaluate the service? So you're out the $300 too?! Sheesh! I really feel for you, especially given that...



jayceeaz said:


> However, the nightmare was just beginning. As I read through this thread, I am literally sick to my stomach that it's not just a fault DVR I bought, or a bad cable card, or something about the area I live in (east of Queen Creek)... instead, I am reading that there is a very well known issue that "they are working on".
> 
> I have to ask, are they working on this problem as hard as their billing department works when you are 2 days late with a payment?


Excellent question! Luckily Cox has done right by me with regard to compensating me for the 10 months of horrible service I've endured, but this "we're working on it" business is just BS! AND, as I've said before, I hate the fact that both Cox and TiVo continue to sell unwitting Phoenix-area consumers these TiVo boxes and Cox service knowing full well there's a long-standing issue they're "working on"!  Ha! Signal just dropped at 8:36 PM... ooo and again at 8:37. Toss in some pixelation too. That's been happening all evening...



jayceeaz said:


> ...FYI, I am using the TiVo HD DVR (S3) + 1 MCard (Scientific Atlanta).


So you're not really using an S3 then? If you're just using one M-card that sounds like a TiVo-HD--the box that's experiencing all the problems. I understand that in most cases the Series 3 TiVo's that are using two M-cards aren't having issues...



jayceeaz said:


> Cox insists it is a TiVo problem. TiVo (who could tell me the sky is green and I would believe them) says it is a signal delivery problem. Every call to Cox starts with "we may have to bill you for the tech to come out" which just makes me giggle when I see the number of customer complaints about THIS VERY PROBLEM everywhere I "google".


Wow, I really hope they're not billing people for the techs. I've not been billed, but then I do pay that small monthly charge that covers truck-rolls...



jayceeaz said:


> Anyway, I will now back-track through this thread and see if I can be fortunate enough to deserve a 100% fix that others seem to believe exists. Thank you for posting your stories, I no longer feel I am alone.
> 
> VERY angry in QC
> John


No, you're not alone, John--but I do think your saga takes the cake of anything I've heard to date on this board!


----------



## splatt

I've seen it mentioned several times in this thread that Series 3 only supports S cards. I've also seen it mentioned that Cox no longer stocks S cards. Does this mean that if you are a new Series 3 owner in Phx you are out of luck? 
I have a Series 3 and thought I could get rid of the S card issues by switching to one M card but it appears that is not an option.
Steve


----------



## andygriffith

splatt said:


> I've seen it mentioned several times in this thread that Series 3 only supports S cards. I've also seen it mentioned that Cox no longer stocks S cards. Does this mean that if you are a new Series 3 owner in Phx you are out of luck?
> I have a Series 3 and thought I could get rid of the S card issues by switching to one M card but it appears that is not an option.
> Steve


No, you're S3 will just require 2 M cards running in S mode.


----------



## JayBird

splatt said:


> I've seen it mentioned several times in this thread that Series 3 only supports S cards. I've also seen it mentioned that Cox no longer stocks S cards. Does this mean that if you are a new Series 3 owner in Phx you are out of luck?
> I have a Series 3 and thought I could get rid of the S card issues by switching to one M card but it appears that is not an option.
> Steve


An original Series 3 supports either S-cards or M-cards. However, it only supports cable cards in single-stream mode, regardless of the type of cable card. M-cards are backwards compatible to work in single-stream mode as if they were an S-card. Since M-cards can work in single-stream mode, Cox felt no need to keep stocking S-cards, when they can just use M-cards everywhere.

So, an original Series 3 can simply use 2 M-cards instead of 2 S-cards. But because the original Series 3 does not support multi-stream mode, you need to use two cable cards even if you are using M-cards.

The TiVo HD, on the other hand, can use either 2 S-cards in single-stream mode or 1 M-card in multi-stream mode.

Of course, it's the bugs in the firmware on the M-cards that is the main discussion point of this thread.


----------



## YazooWho

Update - Being one that has the new firmware for over a week, I can say that its been very stable. I have not had any partials in a week nor have I had missing channels, cc restarts, or cc error messages. It looks like this update is looking good and I have reported back of my results.

I'm going out on a limb and say the fix is near.


----------



## SC1

I have been watching this thread for several weeks now and suffering for months. I think I am probably one of the silent majority who is reaching the end of his rope. It amazes me the complete lack of corporate responsibility for the problem, before reading this thread I called cox (repeatedly) and Tivo neither of whom acknowledged there was a greater issue. Thank god I have 2 Tivo HDs because all Cox want to do is blame it on a Tivo hardware problem (ie mine most be broken). How they can continue to sell tivos in phoenix (or even bill us for service: Cox and Tivo) knowing these issues is beyond me. Cox sent over someone to replace the cards a few weeks ago. The first thing the cards did when installed was "upgrade" themselves to 301 (just what i need). My wife is pretty upset (at me for not fixing it) and my 3 year old son enjoys pushing the clear button when the cablecard diag screen pops up after losing reception (at least someone is enjoying this). Fun stuff. What I am having a hard time with is why they don't roll out 304 to those that want it NOW. There is no downside for me. My system is unusable now. I would rather be engaged in fixing the problem (testing) than being left in the dark. I canceled all my premium channels ($45 a month) because they don't work, and I got used to not having them. My next cancellation will be cable TV and TIVO, I will just build a few MYTHTv boxes and be done with it.


----------



## Minx

Anyone contact the media? Maybe the New Times would like to get in on the fun!


----------



## Kershek

SC1 said:


> My next cancellation will be cable TV and TIVO, I will just build a few MYTHTv boxes and be done with it.


That's my next step as well.


----------



## TippyTree33

Those of us who love TiVo want the situation remedied without sullying the good reputation of TiVo. We love the TiVo product and, while we are disappointed in TiVo's failure to disclose the problem and keep us advised of the progress in addressing it, we don't want TiVo to go down. Once the cablecards are working properly, a TiVo HD and a big beautiful HD TV will be a beautiful thing.

Cox and TiVo, many of us are your long-time customers. We are rooting for you to find the solution and many of us would happily help with beta testing to fix the problem. In return, wouldn't it be great if you could accord us the respect of full disclosure and status updates? 

I recently saw a business book that was entitled "Satisfied Customers Tell Three Friends, Angry Customers Tell 3000...". Cox and TiVo, you might take a lesson from that. It is your own lack of communication that is driving angry customers to lawyers, the media and the FCC with their complaints.

Here's wishing for open communication, a rapid solution and, (as a fellow TiVo aficionado recently emailed to me), a quick end to this dark time in our TiVo experience.


----------



## hddude55

TippyTree33 said:


> Those of us who love TiVo want the situation remedied without sullying the good reputation of TiVo. ...


 What a sunny first post, especially considering the topic of this thread. Sorry, but at this point I would rate series3 TiVo as one of the worst consumer products on the planet, especially when comparing it to the original sd TiVo that has appeared on many lists of the best new consumer products of the past decade. I am way past parceling blame for this mess to Cox versus SA versus TiVo. I wouldn't care if all three companies made it to Chapter 13.


----------



## YazooWho

hddude55 said:


> What a sunny first post, especially considering the topic of this thread. Sorry, but at this point I would rate series3 TiVo as one of the worst consumer products on the planet, especially when comparing it to the original sd TiVo that has appeared on many lists of the best new consumer products of the past decade. I am way past parceling blame for this mess to Cox versus SA versus TiVo. I wouldn't care if all three companies made it to Chapter 13.


I agree with TippyTree, that we that enjoy the Tivo service, will be "hanging in there" until a fix is found because the alternatives are not any better. Its unfortunte that this is affecting us because of where we live. I am sure you didnt feel this way when other in this forum are having issues with Tivo, Cable provider, Cablecards or SA in other areas. I felt bad for others that enjoy Tivo and were having issues with Cable companies and installing CC's. Then other with pixelation with Fios. The list goes on. I didnt have those issues because it affected them in their local area but I felt their pain because I couldn't imagine without the Tivo service.

If we take your point of veiw on the S3 (btw, its the THD thats having issues in this thread), I guess you could say the same about all other companies that run into unforeseen issues with their products or services. There are many I could list that have not performed like they should but they do get fixed. Granted the communication from Tivo and Cox could have been a lot better regarding this issue but to wish all three companies out of business is a little short sighted.

I guess without Cox, SA or Tivo in the Phx area, you get stuck with Satelite or OTA for your TV viewing and the other best DVR alternative...hmmm not sure about that one.


----------



## asualumni03

I received a call from the Cox team lead last night around 6pm. After speaking to him for a week, he is finally ready to add us to the testing list. YAY!! He is coming over this afternoon to take the S cards back and give us the M card with the updated firmware. He stated that this is being rolled out to customers confirmed with the problem first before it will be rolled out to everyone. If you haven't written an email to the two addresses provided in this thread, you most likely won't be added for testing. Calling Cox customer service isn't going to do it.

BTW - the S cards are still available - since they were just installed in our TiVo two weeks ago. You just have to get a tech that is willing to sign them out.


----------



## Rolow

Ok what post number has the email address listed?

I have not contacted tivo and I stopped calling cox. I also stopped using the tivo its so bad. Funny thing is my bills form cox and tivo keep coming on time.


----------



## Rolow

saibari said:


> Yes, I submitted my complaint to the FCC a few weeks ago and I encourage _everyone_ to do the same. I also sent an email to the Cox reps posted by JayBird (General Manager, Cox Arizona, [email protected] & Vice President Public Affairs, Cox Arizona, [email protected] Thanks Jay!
> 
> Does anyone know of an appropriate high-level TiVo rep we can write to?





JayBird said:


> For those who would like to escalate this with Cox...
> 
> General Manager, Cox Arizona
> [email protected]
> 
> Vice President Public Affairs, Cox Arizona
> [email protected]


ok i found them had to go back to page 5 & 6.


----------



## saibari

Rolow said:


> Ok what post number has the email address listed?
> 
> I have not contacted tivo and I stopped calling cox. I also stopped using the tivo its so bad. Funny thing is my bills form cox and tivo keep coming on time.


Yep, it really was comical Sunday night as I was watching the closing ceremonies of the Olympics (comical only because I really was just half-watching as I was doing some work on my laptop)--pixelation and signal drops literally every minute or two! It's been better since then, but still lots of partial recordings.

And regarding the bills arriving on time--you can bet that had they not compensated me for the horrible service I've had these past 10 months I'd be calling tv & radio stations, newspapers...the works! This is just beyond irresponsible. Some on the board can defend TiVo & Cox all they want regarding the inevitability of technical difficulties, but to drag your feet on finding a solution, not inform your customers of the issues (and continue selling the boxes and service with no warning whatsoever), and basically leave your customers hanging out to dry is indefensible. 

I truly hope that those doing the beta-testing are right and that a solution is right around the corner and we'll finally have trouble-free service, but then we're going to have the SDV mess to contend with.  After this experience, I can't imagine getting a tuner that allows the reception of SDV channels anytime soon!


----------



## Rolow

Does any one know the appropriate snail mail address to send a letter to?


----------



## WhoAmI?

So, what's next for everyone if/when the cable card issues get fixed? SDV? Anything else?


----------



## Lovak

I just sent out an email to Mr. Rizley and Mr. Johnson. Hopefully I will get a response and/or on the list.


----------



## jreichjr

saibari said:


> Yep, it really was comical Sunday night as I was watching the closing ceremonies of the Olympics (comical only because I really was just half-watching as I was doing some work on my laptop)--pixelation and signal drops literally every minute or two! It's been better since then, but still lots of partial recordings.
> 
> And regarding the bills arriving on time--you can bet that had they not compensated me for the horrible service I've had these past 10 months I'd be calling tv & radio stations, newspapers...the works! This is just beyond irresponsible. Some on the board can defend TiVo & Cox all they want regarding the inevitability of technical difficulties, but to drag your feet on finding a solution, not inform your customers of the issues (and continue selling the boxes and service with no warning whatsoever), and basically leave your customers hanging out to dry is indefensible.
> 
> I truly hope that those doing the beta-testing are right and that a solution is right around the corner and we'll finally have trouble-free service, but then we're going to have the SDV mess to contend with.  After this experience, I can't imagine getting a tuner that allows the reception of SDV channels anytime soon!


Unfortunatly I think we are all in for nothing but trouble and intermittant service with the Cox system. I have had the Cable TV and Internet for the past 15 years..It was always the internet that gave me fits in the past. Cable TV was pretty good and reliable with occasional program "shorts". Now the Cable TV (my new TVIO) has to communicate with Cox and have buggy firmware downloaded just like the modem for the internet and I would guess the new Digital Phone Modem....I am on my 3rd Internet cable modem and every time is was because of a "cable upgrade of services".

Now I made a really big mistake and added the "reliable and award winning Cox Digital Telephone" to my "Cox Services"...Well today the phone modem is down..I did a AC Power reset and the Tech told me about the button in the back so I reset that, but after 30 minutes it was back to not working again...And then there is my TIVO that can't record all of a 1 hour program...Boy am I un-happy that I stayed with COX....Bundled services...Yup I have everything and everything is all screwed up....and all for only $150.00 per month.....Not to mention the $750 invested in the TVIO and my "lifetime TIVO subscription.....Watch out if you are considering this JOKE....:down:

Sorry for the rant but this is just not right...Cox has a virtual monoply on this stuff and while some of the Techs are absolutly super the COX Company on a scale of 1 to 5 is a minus 6...

Just got off the Cell Phone with Cox. They can't fix my phone without sending someone to the house...Guess when...How about Thursday between 10 and 12am (Geez this is Tuesday) ...Well that does not sound at all like the pitch the salesman gave on the phone when he talked me into getting Cox Digital Phone. He said it was just as reliable as my Land Line provided by Q....Well guess what, Wrong again...Oh yea the rep on the phone said they will call on my cell phone before comming out to work on the Modem/Line problem....and If I don't answer they will cancel the service call.

Maybe I should just cancel the Cox Digital Phone and keep my Cell Phone on all the time...or go back to Q. My old land line worked for 15 years without any interruption of service..It always worked and was just as clear...All this digital phone does is give the Money to Cox instead of Q...

Sorry for the Second Rant....

Gee, Hope I haven't been too hard on them.....

On the up side my Internet is smokin at 19mbps....Best Ever....But I have the feeling that we will never see all the services ever at 100% and "that's just the way it is"...


----------



## saibari

jreichjr said:


> Unfortunatly I think we are all in for nothing but trouble and intermittant service with the Cox system. I have had the Cable TV and Internet for the past 15 years..It was always the internet that gave me fits in the past. Cable TV was pretty good and reliable with occasional program "shorts". Now the Cable TV (my new TVIO) has to communicate with Cox and have buggy firmware downloaded just like the modem for the internet and I would guess the new Digital Phone Modem....I am on my 3rd Internet cable modem and every time is was because of a "cable upgrade of services". ...


Wow, sorry you're having so much trouble with _all_ your Cox services. In fairness, I have to say that I've had Cox cable, phone, & wireless internet for several years now and, until this TiVo-HD mess, I've not had any problems at all--my Series 2 TiVo worked great with Cox service. I never had any issues. I guess that's why this all took me by surprise...


----------



## asualumni03

Cox is at my house now...said EVERYONE is getting the new firmware tonight between 2-6am.


----------



## jreichjr

asualumni03 said:


> Cox is at my house now...said EVERYONE is getting the new firmware tonight between 2-6am.


Thanks asualumni03 for letting us know the Cox Plan..

YEA,,now all they have to do is fix my intermittant Cox Digital Telephone.
It comes back on for a while and then when you are using it it locks up again..
This all started after last nights storm so I am fairly sure it is related to one of the Cox Boxes down the street somewhere..

Oh well, One fix at a time...I hope the 304 firmware fixes my TIVO...I can always dump the Cox Digital Phone and go back to Q...

Cheers, JR


----------



## andygriffith

asualumni03 said:


> Cox is at my house now...said EVERYONE is getting the new firmware tonight between 2-6am.


I know what I will be checking first thing in the morning! I was just about to send 2 more emails and demand to be put on the beta testing, I will hold off now.


----------



## JayBird

asualumni03 said:


> Cox is at my house now...said EVERYONE is getting the new firmware tonight between 2-6am.


Can anybody else confirm this?

Cox techs are *not *typically the most reliable sources of valid information.


----------



## bowlingblogger

JayBird said:


> Cox techs are not typically the most reliable sources of valid information.


Forgive me for this frivolous post, but when I read Jaybird's message my brain omitted the "not" in his statement and I burst out laughing...the sarcasm I perceived was just that exquisite. Viz:

Cox techs are typically the most reliable sources of valid information.


----------



## TippyTree33

How do we know if we have received the new firmware? This morning my SA CableCard Diag Screen indicates OS Ver: PKEY1.1.12_F.p.0401, Build Time: Aug 21 2008, 13:10:53


----------



## JayBird

I'm out of town, so I can't check my own TiVo, but I had my sister check her TiVo this morning, and she also got the 401 firmware last night.

She said she was continuing to have may partial recording problems up through last evening, but none so far this morning.

The version that was being tested was 304, but it appears that for release to the masses must have given it a new version number, 401. Can any of the beta testers confirm this?


----------



## andygriffith

I also got the 401 firmware. Let's hope it is as reliable as it was for the beta testers.


----------



## Supermurph

andygriffith said:


> I also got the 401 firmware. Let's hope it is as reliable as it was for the beta testers.


I got an email this morning from the person at Tivo that has been checking on me during the test. He told me this rollout was the firmware we've been testing. I can tell you that I've had no problems at all and when I asked him in an email over the weekend he said that others were having similar success.

So, good luck! I hope it works as well for you as for me. It's really been great being able to just watch TV when I want to relax after a stressful day at work. The constant jerking around with the equipment was beyond getting old.

I know it took a long time and was frustrating, but if you find this is working as well for you after a few days, you might want to post back and give a little thanks to the guys at Tivo, Cox, and SA for getting together and getting this fixed. They got enough venom ..... so they should get their due now


----------



## andygriffith

Supermurph said:


> I got an email this morning from the person at Tivo that has been checking on me during the test. He told me this rollout was the firmware we've been testing. I can tell you that I've had no problems at all and when I asked him in an email over the weekend he said that others were having similar success.
> 
> So, good luck! I hope it works as well for you as for me. It's really been great being able to just watch TV when I want to relax after a stressful day at work. The constant jerking around with the equipment was beyond getting old.
> 
> I know it took a long time and was frustrating, but if you find this is working as well for you after a few days, you might want to post back and give a little thanks to the guys at Tivo, Cox, and SA for getting together and getting this fixed. They got enough venom ..... so they should get their due now


I will definitely report back about the stability or lack thereof that I experience. The venom directed their way was deserved, hopefully we now have a functional product that we have been paying them for all along.

And to be frank, their communication through all of this really blew. The only reason many of us were able to deal with this was because of this forum and the information provided through it. No official communication, acknowledgement or anything related to this problem was ever provided to the customer base.

Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic that we finally got new firmware that appears to fix the problems, I just have a hard time thanking them for doing their job and for fixing something that shouldn't have been broken to begin with, while leaving everyone out to dry with zero official communication.


----------



## JayBird

andygriffith said:


> And to be frank, their communication though all of this really blew. The only reason many of us were able to deal with this was because of this forum and the information provided through it. No official communication, acknowledgement or anything related to this problem was ever provided to the customer base.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I am ecstatic that we finally got new firmware that appears to fix the problems, I just have a hard time thanking them for doing their job and for fixing something that shouldn't have been broken to begin with, while leaving everyone out to dry with zero official communication.


+1

I'm very happy to have a fix, but the way this was handled by all companies involved was a *PR disaster*. No acknowledgement of the problem, each party passing the buck to the other two, zero useful communication from any of the companies involved, zero compensation to those affected, and zero effort to inform their respective customer support reps about the problem so that they could assist customers that were had the problem. All the TiVo CSRs would do is say it's a Cox problem. All the Cox CSRs would do is tell people that TiVos don't work and that they should get rid of their TiVo and switch to a Cox DVR.

We shouldn't be praising them for fixing it... _It should have worked in the first place._ They should be _*praising us*_ who stuck it out until the fix was available, and _*compensating us*_ for all our troubles.

Most of all, they should give a formal apology to my wife, who complained and complained and complained about the fact that I spent all this money on "upgrading" to the TiVo HD only to have it not work and constantly cut all her shows off early. Frankly, she represents much more of the average consumer than I, and she simply expects products to work out of the box. If it doesn't work, you return it and get something else. Had I not been defending TiVo through all of this and didn't have my old Series 1 recording all the same season passes as a backup, I'm sure the TiVo HD would have been long gone upon first incident of a problem. My wife has little tolerance for dsyfunctional technology.


----------



## jkhansen

JayBird said:


> +1
> 
> I'm very happy to have a fix, but the way this was handled by all companies involved was a *PR disaster*. No acknowledgement of the problem, each party passing the buck to the other two, zero useful communication from any of the companies involved, zero compensation to those affected, and zero effort to inform their respective customer support reps about the problem so that they could assist customers that were had the problem. All the TiVo CSRs would do is say it's a Cox problem. All the Cox CSRs would do is tell people that TiVos don't work and that they should get rid of their TiVo and switch to a Cox DVR.
> 
> We shouldn't be praising them for fixing it... _It should have worked in the first place._ They should be _*praising us*_ who stuck it out until the fix was available, and _*compensating us*_ for all our troubles.
> 
> Most of all, they should give a formal apology to my wife, who complained and complained and complained about the fact that I spent all this money on "upgrading" to the TiVo HD only to have it not work and constantly cut all her shows off early. Frankly, she represents much more of the average consumer than I, and she simply expects products to work out of the box. If it doesn't work, you return it and get something else. Had I not been defending TiVo through all of this and didn't have my old Series 1 recording all the same season passes as a backup, I'm sure the TiVo HD would have been long gone upon first incident of a problem. My wife has little tolerance for dsyfunctional technology.


Amen to all of that. You just summed up the past 3-4 weeks of my life and my spousal tv situation as well.

Cox should not view TiVo and CableCard as a hassle as it effectively ties the TiVo fan to cable despite the fact that the DVR revenue doesn't go to them. I haven't confirmed my firmware update yet, but I hope the problem is resolved or I will revert to an "inferior" product that is at least more reliable.


----------



## andygriffith

I just set up a manual 8 hour recording, hopefully it completes without any issues.


----------



## YazooWho

Like others, I got the upgrade from 304 to 401 this morning. I checked before I left for work and I already had 2 shows recorded since the upgrade and those had no issues. I manually set a few more throughout the day to test it out.


----------



## asualumni03

Working for me too - 3 recordings this morning. All full episodes. Whew!!

I did try to give this team leader lots of feedback, including that we need more communication from them. Unfortunatley I got a lot of excuses in return, including "This isn't really my area of expertise, I am just here to ensure the current issue gets resolved", to "We are forced to carry this product" to "It's not entirely Cox's responsibility to ensure the cable cards are functioning correctly. SA and TiVo's cooperation is needed as well". So, in other words, he didn't really want to pass back my thoughts to the responsible parties. But I now have his phone number, so I will be reaching out to him directly in the future if needed.


----------



## saibari

YazooWho said:


> Like others, I got the upgrade from 304 to 401 this morning. I checked before I left for work and I already had 2 shows recorded since the upgrade and those had no issues. I manually set a few more throughout the day to test it out.


Woo-hoo! Glad we have the update, because it gives hope..._but_ I'm not going to fully celebrate until I get at least a week of trouble-free service--without any _new_ problems cropping up! Ever the optimist, I _am_ hopeful though...


----------



## jreichjr

saibari said:


> Woo-hoo! Glad we have the update, because it gives hope..._but_ I'm not going to fully celebrate until I get at least a week of trouble-free service--without any _new_ problems cropping up! Ever the optimist, I _am_ hopeful though...


And another..Looks like I got the 401 last night also..Just got around to checking it at 9:50 am...The clock is running..Now if they could just fix the phone..The phone modem had my internet modem all loaded down with a 55db carrier I presume, Unplugged the phone modem and the internet came back. at 47db which is more like normal. Oh Well..At least my new TIVO now has a chance...


----------



## extstork

Half a day and I have been continously recording 2 programs and no grey screens or partial recordings. This is after having to reboot 8 times yesterday. If this is really a true fix my joy is enough to temper the built up frustration over the past year. (And that has been horrible frustration). Kinda like when I trained for an Ironman trialthron and hated life during the years of training but the joy of success overcame it all. It's hard to believe it will actually still work this afternoon. I hope... I hope... Oh, and Amen to the phone problem, It makes my alarm go crazy.


----------



## bowlingblogger

JayBird said:


> Most of all, they should give a formal apology to my wife, who complained and complained and complained about the fact that I spent all this money on "upgrading" to the TiVo HD only to have it not work and constantly cut all her shows off early. Frankly, she represents much more of the average consumer than I, and she simply expects products to work out of the box. If it doesn't work, you return it and get something else. Had I not been defending TiVo through all of this and didn't have my old Series 1 recording all the same season passes as a backup, I'm sure the TiVo HD would have been long gone upon first incident of a problem. My wife has little tolerance for dsyfunctional technology.


Your wife and my girlfriend must've been talking, because this is exactly what I've been getting for 2 months too--in particular the bit about spending a bunch of money to replace working equipment with something that doesn't. I think she would've made me take it back if I hadn't prepaid for 3 years in Apr. 07. Boy, I'll never do that again. I got 401 this morning in Tucson and I'm not going to tell her just in case the problem isn't solved.

Oh, and I agree with JayBird and andygriffith...Kafka should come back from the grave and write a story about how this was handled by the three responsible parties.


----------



## Lovak

TippyTree33 said:


> How do we know if we have received the new firmware? This morning my SA CableCard Diag Screen indicates OS Ver: PKEY1.1.12_F.p.0401, Build Time: Aug 21 2008, 13:10:53


Mine said the same thing this morning. 

I am assuming since the date was last Thursday and the firmware version went from 0301 to 0401 that this is the fixed firmware.


----------



## saibari

JayBird said:


> I'm very happy to have a fix, but the way this was handled by all companies involved was a *PR disaster*. ... We shouldn't be praising them for fixing it... _It should have worked in the first place._ They should be _*praising us*_ who stuck it out until the fix was available, and _*compensating us*_ for all our troubles.
> 
> Most of all, they should give a formal apology to my wife . . . she simply expects products to work out of the box. If it doesn't work, you return it and get something else. . . .


Jaybird & AndyGriffith--I couldn't agree more! And your wife is right, Jay! Frankly, I'm mystified by those who are such TiVo cheerleaders that they're willing to accept whatever treatment they get. Thank TiVo/Cox for _finally_ doing their job?!


----------



## JayBird

The people I *do *want to thank are those of you on this forum who persisted with dealing with the customer support people at TiVo and Cox, who wrote letters to the higher-ups at each company and filed complaints with the FCC in order to get them to take the issue seriously, and who worked with TiVo and Cox as part of the beta to ensure that the fix didn't just break something else. If it wasn't for you guys, they would still be pretending that the problem didn't exist, and that it must be the fault of one of the other two companies.


----------



## WhoAmI?

JayBird said:


> Can anybody else confirm this?
> 
> Cox techs are *not *typically the most reliable sources of valid information.


So much for that Cox tech not being a "reliable source of valid information."


----------



## saibari

WhoAmI? said:


> So much for that Cox tech not being a "reliable source of valid information."


Well, Jay did say "typically" ... and unfortunately, they typically aren't good sources. ....

I'd also like to echo JayBird's sentiments regarding this board--it has been my lifeline with regard to this situation. As I've said before, it truly is ridiculous that I had to resort to a message board to find my own solutions to problems that both TiVo and Cox seemed to have never heard of! I remember TiVo offering to replace my box--what a useless pain in the a** that would have been. They also wanted me to go through a tedious process of checking connections, etc. etc. when they should've known full well that this was a long-standing cablecard issue. ...

Ah well, if this truly is a fix I'm willing to put all this behind me. But that's because both TiVo and Cox did compensate me for the 10 months of cable/dvr aggravation! Despite the fact that this was upon my insistence, I do have to give them props for that...


----------



## andygriffith

JayBird said:


> The people I *do *want to thank are those of you on this forum who persisted with dealing with the customer support people at TiVo and Cox, who wrote letters to the higher-ups at each company and filed complaints with the FCC in order to get them to take the issue seriously, and who worked with TiVo and Cox as part of the beta to ensure that the fix didn't just break something else. If it wasn't for you guys, they would still be pretending that the problem didn't exist, and that it must be the fault of one of the other two companies.


+1

Thanks!


----------



## Rolow

I also got 401. Is there a way to tell when I got it? because I noticed my last full recording was The Cleaner tue. night and the wed. 6am sports center did not record because of no signal.


----------



## Lovak

JayBird said:


> The people I *do *want to thank are those of you on this forum who persisted with dealing with the customer support people at TiVo and Cox, who wrote letters to the higher-ups at each company and filed complaints with the FCC in order to get them to take the issue seriously, and who worked with TiVo and Cox as part of the beta to ensure that the fix didn't just break something else. If it wasn't for you guys, they would still be pretending that the problem didn't exist, and that it must be the fault of one of the other two companies.


I couldn't agree more. Thank you all!


----------



## andygriffith

Well, the new firmware certainly looks promising, not one hiccup so far since the upgrade. My 8 hour recording went through just fine, plus I recorded a couple more programs on the 2nd tuner. I am going to be testing the recording throughout tomorrow as well.

I guess we will have to wait 4-6 weeks before we can declare the "authorization" issue dead as well. If it is gone too, I will be a happy camper!


----------



## WhoAmI?

JayBird said:


> The people I *do *want to thank are those of you on this forum who persisted with dealing with the customer support people at TiVo and Cox, who wrote letters to the higher-ups at each company and filed complaints with the FCC in order to get them to take the issue seriously, and who worked with TiVo and Cox as part of the beta to ensure that the fix didn't just break something else. If it wasn't for you guys, they would still be pretending that the problem didn't exist, and that it must be the fault of one of the other two companies.


Seems like you forgot to mention the "middle man" in this equation...neither Cox nor Tivo wrote the code for the cable card.


----------



## jreichjr

extstork said:


> Half a day and I have been continously recording 2 programs and no grey screens or partial recordings. This is after having to reboot 8 times yesterday. If this is really a true fix my joy is enough to temper the built up frustration over the past year. (And that has been horrible frustration). Kinda like when I trained for an Ironman trialthron and hated life during the years of training but the joy of success overcame it all. It's hard to believe it will actually still work this afternoon. I hope... I hope... Oh, and Amen to the phone problem, It makes my alarm go crazy.


I think I have a quick fix for the phone problem. Its called Q....That would be my previous provider for 15 years...Never had a problem with the good ole land line..


----------



## jreichjr

WhoAmI? said:


> Seems like you forgot to mention the "middle man" in this equation...neither Cox nor Tivo wrote the code for the cable card.


Don't really care..I buy this stuff from Cox..Cox installed the Multistream card that they knew did not work right..Cox Bills me for the card and services wheather they work or not..Cox does not inform me of squat...

Not sorry for the rant...my Cox Supplied Phone Modem is now disconnected from the Cable...It was doing a total wipe out of my new Moto Cable modem so it was taking out my internet...Cox installed the Telephone modem...


----------



## Kershek

JayBird said:


> The people I *do *want to thank are those of you on this forum who persisted with dealing with the customer support people at TiVo and Cox, who wrote letters to the higher-ups at each company and filed complaints with the FCC in order to get them to take the issue seriously, and who worked with TiVo and Cox as part of the beta to ensure that the fix didn't just break something else. If it wasn't for you guys, they would still be pretending that the problem didn't exist, and that it must be the fault of one of the other two companies.


I can't agree more. Here, here!

I also got the 401 firmware and here's to WAD (Working As Designed). If only they could have had this completed for the Olympics.


----------



## WhoAmI?

jreichjr said:


> Don't really care..I buy this stuff from Cox..Cox installed the Multistream card that they knew did not work right..Cox Bills me for the card and services wheather they work or not..Cox does not inform me of squat...
> 
> Not sorry for the rant...my Cox Supplied Phone Modem is now disconnected from the Cable...It was doing a total wipe out of my new Moto Cable modem so it was taking out my internet...Cox installed the Telephone modem...


Sounds like you may need to find a new message board for that "rant"...


----------



## BrianAZ

I'm on vacation so I'm a bit delayed... but for anyone still looking for confirmation that this is indeed the fix that's been in testing:



[email protected] @ 6:05am 8/27 said:


> Hello Brian,
> 
> I'd like to once again thank you for all of your help with testing with us.
> 
> Based on the testing results provided by you and several of our other testers, the decision to roll out the update was made, and it was rolled out this morning between 3-6am in Arizona's local time.
> 
> We are confident that this will resolve the rebooting issue in Arizona for our customers. Please let me know if any problems or issues occur.
> 
> Thanks again for your help and patience as TiVo, Cox, and Cisco were working together to get this issue fixed.
> 
> Jonathan


Go Team!!


----------



## rtmcmjr

I too have been part of the test in Phoenix. My Tivo has been completely stable since the test firmware was installed over week ago. I've not had one issue nor have I had to reboot.

I have been running my Tivo and the Cox DVR side by side. The Tivo has performed with no issues what so ever for almost 10 days now.

I too received the email from Jonathan today that the firmware is being rolled out.

*One note:* if you are still having problems after the new firmware is installed I recommend that you have Cox come out and check your signal to make sure it is not to strong or to weak. When setting up the test at my house the techs said my signal strength was way out of whack and they did quite a bit of tuning on it.

Good luck all, I've had good luck so far.

Rob


----------



## JayBird

WhoAmI? said:


> Seems like you forgot to mention the "middle man" in this equation...neither Cox nor Tivo wrote the code for the cable card.


TiVo sold me the TiVo HD and the subscription to the TiVo service, so they are responsible to make sure that the product that I purchased from them works as advertised on my local cable system, in this case, Cox. If it doesn't work, it's TiVo's responsibility to work with Cox to fix things so that their product works as it's supposed to.

Cox is leasing me the cable card for a monthly fee, so Cox is responsible that it has firmware that is compatible with their cable infrastructure. I don't care who manufactured the card, or who wrote the firmware. That's between Cox and and their equipment supplier, which in this case is SA/Cisco. I didn't pay anything to SA/Cisco, so, although technically they were ultimately at fault, as the consumer, that's not my issue. That's Cox's issue.

The bottom line is that Cox should have never issued cable cards with faulty firmware in the first place. They should have fully tested the previous two revisions of the firmware on the local Cox infrastructure long before distributing it to the masses. Apparently they've never understood the concept of QA before...

But most of all, both TiVo and Cox should be ashamed of themselves for how they handled this whole situation, trying to bury it under the rug, and both parties blaming each other and SA/Cisco instead of taking any responsibility to get to the bottom of it until they were strong-armed by the few heroes on this forum who to took the steps to escalate the issue sufficiently to where they could no longer ignore it. That's just simply unacceptable customer service, and they both owe us all a huge apology.


----------



## Supermurph

When I mentioned thanking them, I meant the engineers that provided the fix. I'm sure they aren't proud of the situation and a little thanks for finally getting it right wouldn't be bad for those individuals. I think the whole situation sucks and don't disagree with any of your negative remarks about the companies or the product as a whole. So, if you enjoy getting your blood pressure to a boil and continuing to rant even after the fix, have at it and enjoy yourself. I've just chosen to thank the individuals who worked over the past few weeks to provide the fix. That doesn't mean that I don't agree with all of the negatives .... I just don't think it's the fault of the engineers that were finally assigned to the come up with the fix.

Maybe you are aware of every customer complaint for your company and have the authority to work on anything you want at any given time regardless of what managers above you say. I have a feeling that this is not the case for engineers at Cox and Tivo and that any given tech has no more of an idea of the "grand plan" or lack thereof than you or I do.

Go ahead ..... tear that apart ..... be a grouch .... enjoy. I'll just shut up, smile and watch my Tivo. Where's my beer?


----------



## Roderigo

andygriffith said:


> I guess we will have to wait 4-6 weeks before we can declare the "authorization" issue dead as well. If it is gone too, I will be a happy camper!


Wasn't the problem that the "SubExpireTime" wasn't getting updated. Probably won't take 4-6 weeks to see if that's resolved. I don't know how frequently that gets updated, but I'd write down the value from today, and then check it every couple of days to see if it's moved out.


----------



## andygriffith

Supermurph said:


> When I mentioned thanking them, I meant the engineers that provided the fix. I'm sure they aren't proud of the situation and a little thanks for finally getting it right wouldn't be bad for those individuals. I think the whole situation sucks and don't disagree with any of your negative remarks about the companies or the product as a whole. So, if you enjoy getting your blood pressure to a boil and continuing to rant even after the fix, have at it and enjoy yourself. I've just chosen to thank the individuals who worked over the past few weeks to provide the fix. That doesn't mean that I don't agree with all of the negatives .... I just don't think it's the fault of the engineers that were finally assigned to the come up with the fix.
> 
> Maybe you are aware of every customer complaint for your company and have the authority to work on anything you want at any given time regardless of what managers above you say. I have a feeling that this is not the case for engineers at Cox and Tivo and that any given tech has no more of an idea of the "grand plan" or lack thereof than you or I do.
> 
> Go ahead ..... tear that apart ..... be a grouch .... enjoy. I'll just shut up, smile and watch my Tivo. Where's my beer?


Sorry, since I have never been contacted by any Cox/Tivo engineer who worked to fix the problem, or one that even acknowledged that there was a problem, I just don't know who to thank.


----------



## andygriffith

Roderigo said:


> Wasn't the problem that the "SubExpireTime" wasn't getting updated. Probably won't take 4-6 weeks to see if that's resolved. I don't know how frequently that gets updated, but I'd write down the value from today, and then check it every couple of days to see if it's moved out.


Yeah, I don't know the specifics, I just know that I opened up a case with TiVo in January (never heard a peep) on having to call Cox every week or so to have them hit my TiVo CableCard so my channels would come back.

If you can check to see it is fixed now, please do, and tell me where to look.


----------



## cagnew

How do I find the firmware version? I was told to follow these steps, but it does not work. Please see my screenshot.

1. Tivo Button
2. Messages & Settings
3. Account & System Information
4. CableCARD Decoders
5. Configure CableCARD 1 (MultiStream) - This is assuming you have a single MCard
6. CableCARD Menu
7. SA CableCARD Diag Screen
8. OS Ver: PKEY1.1.12_F.p.0301


----------



## BrianAZ

cagnew said:


> How do I find the firmware version? Please see my screenshot.


Your screenshot looks very odd. Especially the current date/time and boot date/time. No idea why it would say 1996.

Here is what mine looks like:


----------



## jreichjr

JayBird said:


> TiVo sold me the TiVo HD and the subscription to the TiVo service, so they are responsible to make sure that the product that I purchased from them works as advertised on my local cable system, in this case, Cox. If it doesn't work, it's TiVo's responsibility to work with Cox to fix things so that their product works as it's supposed to.
> 
> Cox is leasing me the cable card for a monthly fee, so Cox is responsible that it has firmware that is compatible with their cable infrastructure. I don't care who manufactured the card, or who wrote the firmware. That's between Cox and and their equipment supplier, which in this case is SA/Cisco. I didn't pay anything to SA/Cisco, so, although technically they were ultimately at fault, as the consumer, that's not my issue. That's Cox's issue.
> 
> The bottom line is that Cox should have never issued cable cards with faulty firmware in the first place. They should have fully tested the previous two revisions of the firmware on the local Cox infrastructure long before distributing it to the masses. Apparently they've never understood the concept of QA before...
> 
> But most of all, both TiVo and Cox should be ashamed of themselves for how they handled this whole situation, trying to bury it under the rug, and both parties blaming each other and SA/Cisco instead of taking any responsibility to get to the bottom of it until they were strong-armed by the few heroes on this forum who to took the steps to escalate the issue sufficiently to where they could no longer ignore it. That's just simply unacceptable customer service, and they both owe us all a huge apology.


Right On...I will second and third that.


----------



## cagnew

BrianAZ said:


> Your screenshot looks very odd. Especially the current date/time and boot date/time. No idea why it would say 1996.
> 
> Here is what mine looks like:


Could it be because I have S cards instead of M cards? Is the update for both kinds? BTW, I had just rebooted when I took the picture; my date/time have updated.


----------



## Supermurph

cagnew said:


> Could it be because I have S cards instead of M cards? Is the update for both kinds? BTW, I had just rebooted when I took the picture; my date/time have updated.


I'm not positive, but I think the update is just M cards. Anybody else know? Either way .... my understanding is that there was an update in the last month or two to fix issues with the S-Card. So, your 2005 build date does look strange.

Unless anybody with more info has insight, you might try calling Cox to confirm what firmware you should have. I think they would be the ones to push an update to you if your firmware is out of date. Replacing the card would likely also fix it, but you'd have to do the appt where they give you a window of sometime between 7am and 11pm. Very convenient.


----------



## saibari

Supermurph said:


> When I mentioned thanking them, I meant the engineers that provided the fix. I'm sure they aren't proud of the situation and a little thanks for finally getting it right wouldn't be bad for those individuals. I think the whole situation sucks and don't disagree with any of your negative remarks about the companies or the product as a whole. So, if you enjoy getting your blood pressure to a boil and continuing to rant even after the fix, have at it and enjoy yourself. I've just chosen to thank the individuals who worked over the past few weeks to provide the fix. That doesn't mean that I don't agree with all of the negatives .... I just don't think it's the fault of the engineers that were finally assigned to the come up with the fix.
> 
> Maybe you are aware of every customer complaint for your company and have the authority to work on anything you want at any given time regardless of what managers above you say. I have a feeling that this is not the case for engineers at Cox and Tivo and that any given tech has no more of an idea of the "grand plan" or lack thereof than you or I do.
> 
> Go ahead ..... tear that apart ..... be a grouch .... enjoy. I'll just shut up, smile and watch my Tivo. Where's my beer?


Sure, I'd be happy to thank specific engineers but, like Andy said, we don't know of any specific individual employees to thank and, of course, no one was aiming criticism at specific employees. Even when we talk about "clueless Cox reps" the ire isn't directed at the employees themselves, but at management since it's the folks on top that are responsible for training the employees.

And believe me, I certainly don't fault a sunny disposition. So yeah, sit back and have your beer as you at last get to enjoy your TiVo. I'm doing the same (though I prefer wine...or chocolate... or both!). And while I can't speak for everyone, when I "rant" about this my blood pressure is just fine. I simply believe it's important that consumers not roll over and accept this kind of inexcusably shoddy service, grateful to _finally_ get the trouble-free service we had every right to expect from the start. If no one holds these service providers' feet to the fire, we all suffer. If you don't demand and expect to be treated properly, it's likely you won't be.


----------



## andygriffith

andygriffith said:


> Yeah, I don't know the specifics, I just know that I opened up a case with TiVo in January (never heard a peep) on having to call Cox every week or so to have them hit my TiVo CableCard so my channels would come back.
> 
> If you can check to see it is fixed now, please do, and tell me where to look.


I found it. Mine says Sept 26th right now, I will see if it gets pushed out over the next few days.


----------



## JayBird

Supermurph said:


> Go ahead ..... tear that apart ..... be a grouch .... enjoy. I'll just shut up, smile and watch my Tivo.


I'd probably shut up too, if I were actually at home able to watch and enjoy my TiVo. But since I'm out of town on business this week, I'm away from my TiVo and can't experience the joy of having the new firmware. Instead, I'm in WA, sitting in a hotel room without TiVo, hanging out on this forum.


----------



## BrianAZ

JayBird said:


> I'd probably shut up too, if I were actually at home able to watch and enjoy my TiVo. But since I'm out of town on business this week, I'm away from my TiVo and can't experience the joy of having the new firmware. Instead, I'm in WA, sitting in a hotel room without TiVo, hanging out on this forum.


Do you have a Slingbox? I travel maybe 3-5 days a month for work as well and now that I have one, I can't believe it took me so long to get it. I *hated* going back to my hotel room at night and channel surfing. The quality is not stellar, but it can be quite good if you have a solid network connection at the hotel and home. I just like being able to watch the shows I'm interested in instead of killing time.


----------



## Kershek

There's this thing called the Internet. Who channel surfs in their hotel?


----------



## BrianAZ

Kershek said:


> There's this thing called the Internet. Who channel surfs in their hotel?


Yes, but the Internet on my personal laptop w/ a 15mbit pipe @ home is far different than the Internet on my work-issued, heavily monitored corp laptop w/ hotel wireless or cell modem . So because of that, the usual variety of entertainment I would have access to, I do not.


----------



## Supermurph

JayBird said:


> I'd probably shut up too, if I were actually at home able to watch and enjoy my TiVo. But since I'm out of town on business this week, I'm away from my TiVo and can't experience the joy of having the new firmware. Instead, I'm in WA, sitting in a hotel room without TiVo, hanging out on this forum.


Don't forget the beer!


----------



## JayBird

Supermurph said:


> Don't forget the beer!


I didn't.


----------



## andygriffith

Still going strong. I recorded 8 shows on various channels overnight, no issues at all. It is looking good.

My SubExpireTime is still at Sept 26, how often should that change in order to see if they fixed that issue as well?


----------



## JayBird

BrianAZ said:


> Do you have a Slingbox? I travel maybe 3-5 days a month for work as well and now that I have one, I can't believe it took me so long to get it. I *hated* going back to my hotel room at night and channel surfing. The quality is not stellar, but it can be quite good if you have a solid network connection at the hotel and home. I just like being able to watch the shows I'm interested in instead of killing time.


No slingbox... What I really should do is put TiVo Desktop on my laptop and snag some of my shows of interest. And then bring the appropriate cabling to hook my laptop to the LG flatscreen in my hotel room when I'm here. Wouldn't that be slick? But wait... there's that pesky issue of Cox setting the no-copy bits on most of my programming of interest, which renders TiVoToGo useless. That could get me started on a whole new thread of ranting about Cox, but in this thread we should be celebrating our victory so I'll tame my tongue (fingers?).


----------



## jayceeaz

JayBird said:


> The people I *do *want to thank are those of you on this forum who persisted with dealing with the customer support people at TiVo and Cox, who wrote letters to the higher-ups at each company and filed complaints with the FCC in order to get them to take the issue seriously, and who worked with TiVo and Cox as part of the beta to ensure that the fix didn't just break something else. If it wasn't for you guys, they would still be pretending that the problem didn't exist, and that it must be the fault of one of the other two companies.


I agree 100%. Since stumbling across this particular thread, for the first time since my nightmare began, I felt I was not the only one being screwed. 

I was most impressed by the community members who banded together to test and troubleshoot various recording issues. As a software QA engineer myself, it was reminiscent of my daily life at work - my team pulling together to prove to the developers that their code is in fact CRAP. 

Hopefully the problems are truly solved (even 2 days from now after the next drizzle of rain) and we can go back to our happy couch-potato lives.

Thank you all,
John


----------



## Roderigo

andygriffith said:


> My SubExpireTime is still at Sept 26, how often should that change in order to see if they fixed that issue as well?


Dunno that... would be an interesting thing to keep track of. Since it's about a month out, it doesn't have to update that frequently.


----------



## saibari

Ok, the Cox/TiVo gods must really hate me for speaking my mind because I'm _still_ having issues. Yesterday afternoon I experienced a series of signal-drops every minute or two for a spell--but it was while a tech was fooling with the receiver for my remote. [Wouldn't you know it, no sooner is one problem solved (I hope!) than another one crops up with a different part of my system!] The tech insisted he wasn't touching the TiVo so his putzing around back there had nothing to do with it. But I decided to be hopeful and figured I'd disregard the signal drops and assume it wouldn't happen again...

This morning, I'm watching the Today show at around 7:00AM and _again_, I get signal drops and an error message screen asking me to check the "troubleshooting" suggestions! These signal drops were the usual 10-20 second drops. But what confuses me is that TiVo was taping Monk at the same time, and that recording seems to have gone along just fine.

I haven't had time to check all my recordings over the past 24 hours to see if there are any partials, but this is really confusing me. I hope the issue just has to do with signal strength--didn't someone post on here that this might have to be adjusted? I'll be home later this morning and can check my recordings then. Hopefully there aren't any partials and I'll decide to ignore this episode as well.... and hopefully it won't recur!


----------



## Roderigo

saibari said:


> This morning, I'm watching the Today show at around 7:00AM and _again_, I get signal drops and an error message screen asking me to check the "troubleshooting" suggestions! These signal drops were the usual 10-20 second drops. But what confuses me is that TiVo was taping Monk at the same time, and that recording seems to have gone along just fine.


This is standard behaviour if your rf signal is cutting in and out. On older software on series 2 boxes, you would have been seeing the blue screen flashing on and off. Nothing to do with cablecards here. Tivos have always recorded through this kind of signal outage, and you'll end up with a partial, but the missing part will be in the middle of the recording.

Standard troubleshooting before you call the cable company to come out, make sure all the cables are tight (especially if someone was messing around near the equipment), remove all splitters, etc).


----------



## saibari

Roderigo said:


> This is standard behaviour if your rf signal is cutting in and out. On older software on series 2 boxes, you would have been seeing the blue screen flashing on and off. Nothing to do with cablecards here. Tivos have always recorded through this kind of signal outage, and you'll end up with a partial, but the missing part will be in the middle of the recording.
> 
> Standard troubleshooting before you call the cable company to come out, make sure all the cables are tight (especially if someone was messing around near the equipment), remove all splitters, etc).


Thanks Roderigo--when you say that TiVo has always recorded through this type of outage, this means if I review the Monk tape I'll see the signal drop in those last few minutes (this occured around 6:55AM) right? I did take a quick look and everything looked fine, but maybe I didn't rewind far enough. I didn't have time to carefully check it as I was running out the door...


----------



## Roderigo

saibari said:


> Thanks Roderigo--when you say that TiVo has always recorded through this type of outage, this means if I review the Monk tape I'll see the signal drop in those last few minutes (this occured around 6:55AM) right?


Yes, the recording will "jump" over the signal outage. You can always try a controlled experiment to see what this looks like by starting a recording, and then removing the cable for a short while, and then see what the resulting recording looks like at the point where you pull the cable, and then plug it back in.


----------



## saibari

I have a partial recording!  Yes, there were lots of recordings over the past 30 hours that were just fine but one-- a TiVo suggestion (Ferris Bueller's Day Off on HBO channel 202) recorded this morning at 9:30AM and is listed as a partial, having gone off a minute early--at 1:44 instead of 1:45. _*Please someone explain this away!!*_


----------



## saibari

Ok, at this moment, the program I'm recording (All My Children on channel 715) is so severely pixelated that it's unwatchable! On the other tuner, I have a perfectly beautiful picture for the newscast on channel 712. What's going on?!  Channels 10, 12 & 15 are also severely pixelated... 710, 728, 28 are fine. These are just a few random channels I checked...


----------



## Roderigo

saibari said:


> Ok, at this moment, the program I'm recording (All My Children on channel 715) is so severely pixelated that it's unwatchable! On the other tuner, I have a perfectly beautiful picture for the newscast on channel 712. What's going on?!  Channels 10, 12 & 15 are also severely pixelated... 710, 728, 28 are fine. These are just a few random channels I checked...


All of your posts today lead to one thing (and it's not a cablecard problem). You've got some signal issues that you need to get resolved. It's possible that signal issues only impact certain frequencies, so what you're seeing there is consistent.

As I said earlier, check that the cable connection is still tightly connected to the tivo box, remove any splitters, make sure you're using good quality cables. If none of that solves the problem, it's likely to require a truck roll from a tech with signal measurement equipment to see what's going on.


----------



## BrianAZ

Roderigo said:


> All of your posts today lead to one thing (and it's not a cablecard problem). You've got some signal issues that you need to get resolved. It's possible that signal issues only impact certain frequencies, so what you're seeing there is consistent.
> 
> As I said earlier, check that the cable connection is still tightly connected to the tivo box, remove any splitters, make sure you're using good quality cables. If none of that solves the problem, it's likely to require a truck roll from a tech with signal measurement equipment to see what's going on.


Absolutely agree. I had some pixelation a while back and they came out and messed with an amplifier and it cleared up. Sounds different than what folks in this thread were reporting.


----------



## saibari

Roderigo said:


> All of your posts today lead to one thing (and it's not a cablecard problem). You've got some signal issues that you need to get resolved. It's possible that signal issues only impact certain frequencies, so what you're seeing there is consistent.
> 
> As I said earlier, check that the cable connection is still tightly connected to the tivo box, remove any splitters, make sure you're using good quality cables. If none of that solves the problem, it's likely to require a truck roll from a tech with signal measurement equipment to see what's going on.


ok, I did check for lose connections and all seems well. It was professionally installed so I really don't like to mess with the connections. I hope you're right. Maybe Cox just needs to come out and tune something. But what about the partial recording? It _is_ the only one so far. But if there's one, won't there be more to follow? And is a partial recording also consistent with signal issues? Grrrr--I was so ready for trouble-free viewing! Thanks _so_ much for the advice. I just can't make myself get on the phone with Cox again just yet, though I know I'll have to. <sigh>


----------



## saibari

Ok, I just turned on the tv and _all_ channels were grayed out.  After a re-boot they are now back. Is that consistent with signal issues too? I don't know, all this sounds just like the problems I had before the new firmware, because I did have occasional pixelation issues along with the partial recordings/grayed out channels. I _really_ hope this is something a quick truck-roll will solve, but...


----------



## saibari

I just checked the All My Children recording to see if the pixelation continued throughout the recording... _*it's a partial recording!!*_ It cut off at 12:57. I'm really trying hard here to believe it's not the same old problem, but come on!


----------



## Rolow

Hey where did the poll come from? I think Its a little early to be voting so I will wait. 

I am trouble free since yesterday morning.


----------



## saibari

Just got off the phone with Cox. Amazingly, the rep did know about the cablecard issues. She told me that Cox is doing some work in the area and I'm not the only one having issues. She doesn't know whether or not they were working in the area yesterday, but it's quite possible. She said they'll be done no later than 5:00PM. ... Only thing is, while the work may be causing my pixelation issues, and maybe even my no-reception-at-all issue, is it plausible that it could cause the two partial recordings I've had? That's what's presenting a nagging doubt...

But, ever the optimist, I'm hoping the work-in-the-area _is_ what's causing my problems--especially since no one else seems to be having issues. So please keep your fingers crossed for me. Maybe after 5:00PM I'll be trouble-free at last, trouble-free at last, thank God Almighty I'll be trouble-free at last! _Sorry and apologies to King, but I couldn't resist!_


----------



## andygriffith

saibari,

When you got your partial recordings, did you witness a CableCard reset where both tuners ended up on the same channel? If not, it is unrelated to our previous headache. If it continued to record, it is a different issue altogether.

Another possible cause would be if you had 2 shows recording at the same time and a new show set to record at the top of the hour and you had it set to start a minute or two early and it had a higher priority, it may get truncated. I have never had that situation, so I don't know if that would show up as a partial or not.

NBC HD seems to have a lot of signal loss and pixelation issues, I am seeing a lot of pixelation right now watching the NFL game and saw a lot of signal loss and pixelation during the last week of the Olympics.

I have not had a single issue related to a CableCard reset or 161-38 error since the new firmware was installed and I have been testing the heck out of it.

If they are working in your area, I suspect that is what is causing your issues today.


----------



## Supermurph

BrianAZ said:


> Absolutely agree. I had some pixelation a while back and they came out and messed with an amplifier and it cleared up. Sounds different than what folks in this thread were reporting.


I've also had this in the past even with the Cox box. Cox may need to install a signal amplifier or adjust it if you already have one. If the signal is too weak or too strong, it can cause issues like what you are describing. I used to get pixelation on only certain channels, but it was the same channels all of the time. One visit and a signal adj permanently fixed it.

Also ...... and I have no idea if this is true or a pile of %$#%^& ...... a Cox tech told me awhile back that because of extreme temperature differences in AZ, the connections and cables outside of your home expand and contract. So, they may need periodic adjustment when you notice issues. I can't remember which has a weaker signal ... winter or summer. That might be a load of bull .... I dunno, but it's something else to chew on.


----------



## BrianAZ

Rolow said:


> Hey where did the poll come from? I think Its a little early to be voting so I will wait.
> 
> I am trouble free since yesterday morning.


I added it so people could vote when they feel it's been long enough for them. Since I was testing for a period before the general roll out, I feel comfortable that the issue is resolved.


----------



## jreichjr

Supermurph said:


> I've also had this in the past even with the Cox box. Cox may need to install a signal amplifier or adjust it if you already have one. If the signal is too weak or too strong, it can cause issues like what you are describing. I used to get pixelation on only certain channels, but it was the same channels all of the time. One visit and a signal adj permanently fixed it.
> 
> Also ...... and I have no idea if this is true or a pile of %$#%^& ...... a Cox tech told me awhile back that because of extreme temperature differences in AZ, the connections and cables outside of your home expand and contract. So, they may need periodic adjustment when you notice issues. I can't remember which has a weaker signal ... winter or summer. That might be a load of bull .... I dunno, but it's something else to chew on.


Boy is that right, it is not a bunch of bull...I have just finally after years of intermittant internet service (TV always seemed ok) got the fix..My system in now working on all cylinders..Phone, TIVO (401 fixed that), HSI, and Cox DVR...All working as they should but only after installing a new connector at the 4 way tap at the street in the little green box..Cox Tech Casey said my connector looked like it was "very old"...

For all the details see:

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20963344-AZ-Cable-Cards-and-TIVO~start=20

Working great in Glendale

Check Your Available Hard Drive Space on your TIVO

Now if you have a router and the USB adapter for your TIVO and you want a very quick way to see all of your recordings and get a good idea of how much storage space you have used and have left on your hard drive in your TIVO you might want to try this program that I found mentioned somewhere else in these forums: It is TIVOplaylist..Just google it and you should get to the download site.


----------



## andygriffith

Who are the two people who voted that they are still having partial recordings that can be directly attributed to a CableCard reset / 161-38 error?


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## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Who are the two people who voted that they are still having partial recordings that can be directly attributed to a CableCard reset / 161-38 error?


Not I. It's too early yet for me to vote. However, I set recordings all night long and no partials. I continue to have the pixelation and grey screen problem though. So Cox is coming out on Sun. I will assume that these issues (as well as the 2 partials I have had over the past couple days) are due to signal problems... easily solvable signal problems... and not cablecard issues--I hope, I hope!


----------



## Lovak

I have not yet voted (will wait until Monday), but I have not had a dropped recording yet.


----------



## Kershek

After the Olympics, I haven't watched TV all week


----------



## BrianAZ

andygriffith said:


> Who are the two people who voted that they are still having partial recordings that can be directly attributed to a CableCard reset / 161-38 error?


cam026, FDM


----------



## andygriffith

BrianAZ,

Why don't they post about their issues? These are confirmed CableCard resets / 162-38 errors???

As far as I can tell, FDM isn't even in AZ.

I am still completely troublefreee since the 401 came to town.


----------



## BrianAZ

andygriffith said:


> BrianAZ,
> 
> Why don't they post about their issues? These are confirmed CableCard resets / 162-38 errors???
> 
> As far as I can tell, FDM isn't even in AZ.
> 
> I am still completely troublefreee since the 401 came to town.


I have no idea . I don't recall them posting anywhere in this thread at all. Perhaps they are just trigger-happy when they see a poll.


----------



## andygriffith

LOL. I think cam026 posted in this thread a couple of times, but the other one didn't and doesn't appear to be from AZ.

I have yet to see any documented evidence that the 161-38 reset issue still resides anywhere after the 401 update.


----------



## JayBird

I returned home last night to be pleasantly surprised that since Wednesday morning our TiVo HD has had no partial recordings. So that further confirms that _this _problem appears to be fixed.

If I remember correctly, my SubExpireTime is Sept 23rd, so we will see what happens at that point.

Although I'm hugely optimistic, I think the jury is still out until we've all had over a month of service without any issues.

In the meantime, I'll be enjoying my TiVo...


----------



## whttkrasst

Hi - since I got the new CC firmware, I'm seeing brief dropouts. The audio and video stop, the screen is green and is blank, then comes right back. Lasts about 1-2 seconds. Any ideas? It's on HD channels.


----------



## saibari

whttkrasst said:


> Hi - since I got the new CC firmware, I'm seeing brief dropouts. The audio and video stop, the screen is green and is blank, then comes right back. Lasts about 1-2 seconds. Any ideas? It's on HD channels.


Hey, I'm having the same thing happen and was about to post. In a recorded program the screen goes bright green (in the hour-long program I just finished watching this happened at least 5 or 6 times), when watching live tv the screen goes black momentarily. I'm assuming/hoping it's not a cablecard issue, but an easily-resolved signal-strength issue. At any rate, at least the recording continues--that's a heck of a lot better than the partial-recordings problem...


----------



## Rolow

whttkrasst said:


> Hi - since I got the new CC firmware, I'm seeing brief dropouts. The audio and video stop, the screen is green and is blank, then comes right back. Lasts about 1-2 seconds. Any ideas? It's on HD channels.


Me to. 
I've had tennis on while I was working on the pc and its happened twice in the last hour. I have not watched any of the programs that where recorded since the 401 firmware so i hope there isn't a lot of the green screen in the recordings.


----------



## whttkrasst

Rolow said:


> Me to.
> I've had tennis on while I was working on the pc and its happened twice in the last hour. I have not watched any of the programs that where recorded since the 401 firmware so i hope there isn't a lot of the green screen in the recordings.


Yeah, I'm watching tennis - probably the same channel. Could be signal, but it's happened consistently since the upgrade and on different channels. And, our Cox upgrade outage was last week, and we had a few days after that, before 401, without green screen. So, I tend to guess it's FW.


----------



## Rolow

Just in case The above post wasn't clear I was watching live TV. 

Also just a note both tuners did not switch to the same channel. They stayed on CBS and ESPN.


----------



## saibari

Rolow said:


> Just in case The above post wasn't clear I was watching live TV. ...


Oh... that's interesting. I assumed the green screen was what happens when a program is being recorded because since 401 I've been having intermittent signal drops during live tv--Thursday I was getting momentary gray screens, but yesterday and today the screen would go black momentarily. When I watched the recorded show this morning (recorded last night at 9:00pm on 705) that's the first time I saw a green screen so I assumed that's how the problem manifested itself in a recording. I'll leave the telly on and see if I get a green screen with live tv...

I have to say that with several of us experiencing this, now I'm not so sure it's just an easily solvable signal strength issue.


----------



## whttkrasst

saibari said:


> Oh... that's interesting. I assumed the green screen was what happens when a program is being recorded because since 401 I've been having intermittent signal drops during live tv--Thursday I was getting momentary gray screens, but yesterday and today the screen would go black momentarily. When I watched the recorded show this morning (recorded last night at 9:00pm on 705) that's the first time I saw a green screen so I assumed that's how the problem manifested itself in a recording. I'll leave the telly on and see if I get a green screen with live tv...
> 
> I have to say that with several of us experiencing this, now I'm not so sure it's just an easily solvable signal strength issue.


Right - green screen 1-2 second dropout on LiveTV. No idea about recordings. Haven't watched any recordings since 401.


----------



## BrianAZ

I've not experienced this.. but I've been on the road for the past two weeks or so. I've been watching some shows here and there via slingbox, but it's certainly possible I just haven't seen this yet. Will keep an eye out and report back.


----------



## jreichjr

whttkrasst said:


> Right - green screen 1-2 second dropout on LiveTV. No idea about recordings. Haven't watched any recordings since 401.


Got it on a recording last night..maybe 2 seconds of green/normal flashing then back to normal..Much better than loosing the last 5 minutes of the program...Could have been loss of signal or just some gargbage being transmitted but I got the whole recording...401 works good here..


----------



## saibari

jreichjr said:


> Got it on a recording last night..maybe 2 seconds of green/normal flashing then back to normal..Much better than loosing the last 5 minutes of the program...Could have been loss of signal or just some gargbage being transmitted but I got the whole recording...401 works good here..


Oh yeah--_worlds_ better than partial recordings! But it's still not acceptable. I want _trouble-free_ service. Really, that's not too much to ask. Cox tech should be here soon. I'll let you know what comes of it ...


----------



## Shawn95GT

jreichjr said:


> Got it on a recording last night..maybe 2 seconds of green/normal flashing then back to normal..Much better than loosing the last 5 minutes of the program...Could have been loss of signal or just some gargbage being transmitted but I got the whole recording...401 works good here..


The green flashes had nothing to do with Cox. I got 'em on my S3 recording CBS from off air.

Don't forget we've been having 'wind storms from hell', no doubt causing some downlink issue for the local CBS affiliate.

Shawn


----------



## BrianAZ

Shawn95GT said:


> The green flashes had nothing to do with Cox. I got 'em on my S3 recording CBS from off air.
> 
> Don't forget we've been having 'wind storms from hell', no doubt causing some downlink issue for the local CBS affiliate.
> 
> Shawn


Great point. I've been on the road but the national news has been all over those storms. "100mph winds, thousands without power" etc. Supposed to end today I think. Guess we'll see.


----------



## saibari

BrianAZ said:


> Great point. I've been on the road but the national news has been all over those storms. "100mph winds, thousands without power" etc. Supposed to end today I think. Guess we'll see.


Yep, I thought about that. However, I've been having problems since before the storms--pixelation, grayed out channels, a couple of partial recordings. But it does ease my mind a bit that the _common_ problems we've been having (green screen) may be related to weather factors. And I've not had partial recordings since Thu (plus there have been only two). So, I'm back to being hopeful that my particular problems are due to easily-fixable signal strength issues. I'll post an update after the Cox tech leaves...


----------



## saibari

Ok, Cox tech just left. He said the problems were due to signal issues as a few had suggested. It took him a while to figure out what was causing the signal fluctuations. He finally said it was a faulty connector at the TiVo box. The needle-like thing on the cable connector that inserts into the box was slightly bent. He was confident this would solve the all the problems--green screen, intermittent dropped signal, grayed out channels... I certainly hope so!


----------



## BrianAZ

saibari said:


> Ok, Cox tech just left. He said the problems were due to signal issues as a few had suggested. It took him a while to figure out what was causing the signal fluctuations. He finally said it was a faulty connector at the TiVo box. The needle-like thing on the cable connector that inserts into the box was slightly bent. He was confident this would solve the all the problems--green screen, intermittent dropped signal, grayed out channels... I certainly hope so!


How frequently was it happening? Did the tech get to see it live? When do you think you'll be confident it's resolved?


----------



## extstork

saibari said:


> Hey, I'm having the same thing happen and was about to post. In a recorded program the screen goes bright green (in the hour-long program I just finished watching this happened at least 5 or 6 times), when watching live tv the screen goes black momentarily. I'm assuming/hoping it's not a cablecard issue, but an easily-resolved signal-strength issue. At any rate, at least the recording continues--that's a heck of a lot better than the partial-recordings problem...


I'm having the same problem with the green screens on recorded programs (I don't watch anything live) since the 401 update. It just happed 2 times in 5 minutes. Is it telling that this started happening to many of us just since the update and it never happened before. Could it be that this is the fix -going green instead of grey and dropping the signal altogether?


----------



## saibari

extstork said:


> I'm having the same problem with the green screens on recorded programs (I don't watch anything live) since the 401 update. It just happed 2 times in 5 minutes. Is it telling that this started happening to many of us just since the update and it never happened before. Could it be that this is the fix -going green instead of grey and dropping the signal altogether?


Yeah, I wonder about that too. Yes, it's a far better situation than the partial recordings, but still not acceptable. I'll let you all know how things go. I'm really ready for trouble-free service--honestly, I am!



BrianAZ said:


> How frequently was it happening? Did the tech get to see it live? When do you think you'll be confident it's resolved?


The green screen or signal dropping (gray or black screen) sometimes happened every minute or so. Sometimes less frequent. In one hour-long recording, I had the green screen occur about 5 times.

I showed the tech the tiling and the green screen on recordings that I had. He didn't witness either live. Apparently when he checked the signal though, he saw that it was fluctuating. And frankly, I won't be confident anything is resolved until I have at least a week of trouble-free service. That would really be something since I don't believe I've _ever_ had a solid week without one annoying thing or another since I installed the TiVo HD over 10 months ago!


----------



## BrianAZ

saibari said:


> The green screen or signal dropping (gray or black screen) sometimes happened every minute or so. Sometimes less frequent. In one hour-long recording, I had the green screen occur about 5 times.
> 
> I showed the tech the tiling and the green screen on recordings that I had. He didn't witness either live. Apparently when he checked the signal though, he saw that it was fluctuating. And frankly, I won't be confident anything is resolved until I have at least a week of trouble-free service. That would really be something since I don't believe I've _ever_ had a solid week without one annoying thing or another since I installed the TiVo HD over 10 months ago!


Ok, keep us posted. I've sent an email to the guy @ Tivo I had been working with pointing out these posts. I've played several recent recordings via Slingbox and haven't seen it myself but maybe I'm missing it because I'm going through the Slingbox.


----------



## bowlingblogger

saibari said:


> The green screen or signal dropping (gray or black screen) sometimes happened every minute or so. Sometimes less frequent. In one hour-long recording, I had the green screen occur about 5 times.


I'm having the same experience in my recordings, except no green--it always goes black. It happened about 3 times in an hour-recording I just watched for about 2-4 seconds each time.


----------



## whttkrasst

As an update - no green screen dropouts since Saturday AM. We watched quite a bit of tennis and other HD content yesterday and no problems all day. I suppose it could be a signal issue - I've just never seen the TiVo react in this green screen manner before 401. So, I suppose they could be handling things differently, too, as suggested. In any case, no partial recordings and no complete losses of signal like before 401.


----------



## BrianAZ

Thanks for the updates everyone. My contact at Tivo reached out to me today to acknowledge my email and let me know he will bring it up in the next meeting with Cox which apparently are still ongoing.


----------



## saibari

bowlingblogger said:


> I'm having the same experience in my recordings, except no green--it always goes black. It happened about 3 times in an hour-recording I just watched for about 2-4 seconds each time.


Yes, I had that happen while watching live TV. I only saw the green screen on recordings. I haven't watched much live TV since yesterday so I can't yet say if things are better... Have you called a Cox tech to come out?


----------



## bowlingblogger

saibari said:


> Yes, I had that happen while watching live TV. I only saw the green screen on recordings. I haven't watched much live TV since yesterday so I can't yet say if things are better... Have you called a Cox tech to come out?


I haven't called yet...I thought I would wait a few days to see it it continued and whether it also happens on LiveTV. I'll post when I find out and call Cox to check the signal if it does.


----------



## andygriffith

I was out of town over this weekend but recorded 6 hours of HD TV. I still haven't seen any issues at all, no green, grey or black screens or signal loss of any kind since the new firmware was rolled out.


----------



## Lovak

The update appears to have fixed all of my issues as I have been running at 100&#37; since the firmware hit. No green, grey or black, nor signal loss at all.


----------



## andygriffith

Saibari,

Have your issues diminished after Cox came out and beefed up your signal strength?


----------



## JayBird

So far, so good on our TiVo. Even if things are not perfect, this is 1000 times better than the previous firmware. Not one cable card error or partial recording. And I've seen none of the green, grey, or black screens that others have seen.

That being said, I have seen on a couple occasions since the update some pretty significant pixelating, and once or twice the audio/video froze for a few seconds, roughly the same amount of time things would go haywire when a cable card reset occurred with the previous firmware. But at the moment I'm assuming that these issues were glitches in the Cox feed, and not an issue related to the cable card or the TiVo.


----------



## Supermurph

I had the green screen thing on Sat morning on CBS (705). It happened 3 or 4 times during the 45-60 I was watching. I thought it may have been the network, so I ignored it. I haven't seen it since, so until I just read the forum, I still assumed it was the signal. 

On additional note, after a few times, the picture did freeze, but only on that channel. I switched to channel 5 (CBS regular) and that channel was fine. So, I rebooted and have been fine since.

I'll also email the Tivo guy so he knows there is another case of it. Like some of you said ... this is far better than it was. However, we should make sure we let them know if there is anything that isn't perfect so they can get it completely right while we're all talking.

I don't know a lot about these things, but the fact that it was on one channel leads me to believe it's the signal strength. So, we'll have to see how we all do as some more time passes.


----------



## andygriffith

I checked my SubExpireTime today and it has changed from Sept 26th to Oct 2nd, so it appears that the other problem has been fixed as well, yipeeee!

I am still trouble free since the firmware upgrade, no partials, no resets, no green, grey or black screens.


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Saibari,
> 
> Have your issues diminished after Cox came out and beefed up your signal strength?


Yes, all seems well. No partial recordings. But I haven't watched a lot of TV over the past couple of days so I can't say for sure...


----------



## JayBird

I checked with my sister this morning, and her TiVo HD has been working flawlessly since the 401 firmware was released last week, so that's yet another data point that the problem has been fixed.


----------



## saibari

*No, the tiling/gray-screen issue is not any better! * I've got NBC on right now (Extra) and it just went through a period of about 5 minutes in which it tiled, went to gray screen for 20-30 seconds, tiled, gray-screen, etc. repeatedly within the 5 min period, now it's doing about a second of tiling every 20-30 seconds. RIDICULOUS! ...

I hit record so that I could see whether or not the gray screen displays green on a recording (since I've only seen the green screen on a recording, not live). So it turns out that while the tiling does get recorded (I already knew this), the gray screen does not. There was no gray screen _and_ no green screen on the recording. It just tiles, freezes for a split second and then picks up recording after the gray screen is gone. Make me wonder if all 401 did is prevent Tivo from discontinuing recording during a signal drop? *Yes, this is far better than our previous situation with partial recordings, but still far from acceptable!*

Of course, it seems like most of you aren't experiencing this. I appear to be among the unlucky few.


----------



## andygriffith

saibari,

I really don't think you are dealing with a CableCard issue, it sounds like a signal issue to me. I experienced similar symptoms watching the Olympics on NBCHD. It got so bad and had to switch to the SD channel where it never happened.

You may want to have a truck roll to replace the card just in case and check your signal strength again. I really think they got the other two bugs licked.


----------



## BrianAZ

No issues since the fw upgrade for me.


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> saibari,
> 
> I really don't think you are dealing with a CableCard issue, it sounds like a signal issue to me. I experienced similar symptoms watching the Olympics on NBCHD. It got so bad and had to switch to the SD channel where it never happened.
> 
> You may want to have a truck roll to replace the card just in case and check your signal strength again. I really think they got the other two bugs licked.


I hope you're right. And I suppose the fact that not many others are experiencing this lends support to this conclusion. But it appears that this "signal issue" isn't easily resolvable. At least the first tech didn't resolve it. I'll call and have them out _yet again_. ... And yes, I've switched to channel 12 (non-HD) and haven't had any issues whereas 712 continues to have issues every few minutes...


----------



## andygriffith

saibari said:


> I hope you're right. And I suppose the fact that not many others are experiencing this lends support to this conclusion. But it appears that this "signal issue" isn't easily resolvable. At least the first tech didn't resolve it. I'll call and have them out _yet again_. ... And yes, I've switched to channel 12 (non-HD) and haven't had any issues whereas 712 continues to have issues every few minutes...


Yeah, that was the channel that was giving me fits the night of the closing ceremonies. Hang in there and you will get it right. It is soooo nice having a reliable TiVo finally.


----------



## bfschroe

Just getting into this thread so forgive me if I missed something already discussed:

I have Suddenlink (was Cox) in North Carolina. We are using the SA cable cards and had major problems on and off for more than a year. Just started seeing MORE problems after the new Tivo update (4.01). Did I read this thread correctly that there is an update for the cable cards that might help? What firmware of SA cards (multistream and single stream (have both HD and S3)) is known to work well with the new Tivo software so I can make sure to get new cards if needed?

thanks
Bruce


----------



## Roderigo

bfschroe said:


> I have Suddenlink (was Cox) in North Carolina. We are using the SA cable cards and had major problems on and off for more than a year. Just started seeing MORE problems after the new Tivo update (4.01).


Unfortunately, you don't provide enough info in your post to be able to help. What's your "major problem?" Unlikely it's not the same, because the problem described in this thread is not dependent on the tivo software version.

Were you seeing a 161-38 error? If not, it's not the same problem as in this thread.

You're also a bit confused about what 4.01 is - it's not a tivo update, but an update to the cablecard firmware. The full version number from the cablecard is something like 1.1.12.F.p.0401


----------



## bfschroe

Sorry for the lack of info.
I was not in front of the Tivo when writing.
I assumed the reference to 4.01 was referring to Tivo software 9.4-01

I did see the error 161-38 for the first time last nite on my Tivo HD. It has a single M mode SA card running firmware: F.P.PKEY1.1.12.0103 Tivo is on 9.4-01-2-652

I have also seen more pixelation and gray screen on one channel in particular. It is happening on both systems but more on the Tivo S3 (uses 2 Single stream cards running OS 2.3.149.3 (and .S2 on the other). The channel that fails is an HD local remapped channel.

thanks
Bruce


----------



## andygriffith

Unfortunately this thread probably won't be of much help to you. The problems discussed in this thread were limited to the Phoenix/Tucson area Cox Communications customers. New firmware was rolled out to us last week, 401 which seems to have fixed all of the problems that we discussed on this thread. It appears that you are on a different firmware version than we are.

I would first have a Cox technician come out and check your signal strength and then possibly start a new thread for your city/state which discusses the problems you are experiencing in greater detail to see if anyone else in your area is seeing the same issues.


----------



## Roderigo

bfschroe said:


> I did see the error 161-38 for the first time last nite on my Tivo HD. It has a single M mode SA card running firmware: F.P.PKEY1.1.12.0103


From this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6402043#post6402043

It certainly looks like this version of the firmware can cause problems.



bfschroe said:


> I have also seen more pixelation and gray screen on one channel in particular. It is happening on both systems but more on the Tivo S3


This sounds less likely to be a cablecard problem. Try the standard signal troubleshooting steps (remove splitters, make sure connections are tight, make sure all the cables are good). If none of that works, the cable company will have to look at it.


----------



## extstork

An update on my green screen issue: I have a cox DVR on another TV and I have seen the green screen for a few seconds watching live tv a couple of times. We have noticed that the green screens have been very few the past few days on the Tivo recordings. This leads me to feel that it is a signal isue with storms, etc and not a cablecard issue.


----------



## Shawn95GT

It should be pretty easy to verify... 0:33 into 'Swingtown' on 9/5 etc.

I haven't noticed a green screen at all since the storms have stopped rolling in.


----------



## andygriffith

Judging by the lack of activity on this thread, I think that everyone seems to believe that the bugs are fixed, I know I am now convinced.

It is nice to finally have a reliable TiVo HD!!!


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> Judging by the lack of activity on this thread, I think that everyone seems to believe that the bugs are fixed, I know I am now convinced.
> 
> It is nice to finally have a reliable TiVo HD!!!


Yep, I'm almost afraid to say it, but I've not had issues in several days. And no partials in quite some time. Whew! Let's hope this pattern holds! ... I don't know how to vote in the poll though... but I guess that's no longer necessary...


----------



## elzool

Having waited from the first post of this thread until the problem with cards in Phoenix were solved and then another week, I ordered mine yesterday.

Now I have a question I posed in another thread that I was hoping all of you Phoenix residents would answer for me if you would be so kind.

Is anything copy protected on Cox in Phoenix?

If so, could Tivo contacts from this thread be used to possibly get them to change their flagging?


----------



## andygriffith

elzool said:


> Having waited from the first post of this thread until the problem with cards in Phoenix were solved and then another week, I ordered mine yesterday.
> 
> Now I have a question I posed in another thread that I was hoping all of you Phoenix residents would answer for me if you would be so kind.
> 
> Is anything copy protected on Cox in Phoenix?
> 
> If so, could Tivo contacts from this thread be used to possibly get them to change their flagging?


I have seen certain programs that I couldn't transfer between my two TiVo units due to copy protection flagging.


----------



## saibari

elzool said:


> Having waited from the first post of this thread until the problem with cards in Phoenix were solved and then another week, I ordered mine yesterday.
> 
> Now I have a question I posed in another thread that I was hoping all of you Phoenix residents would answer for me if you would be so kind.
> 
> Is anything copy protected on Cox in Phoenix?
> 
> If so, could Tivo contacts from this thread be used to possibly get them to change their flagging?


Initially, I had problems with flagging that caused programs to delete themselves within an hour or so of being recorded. This was due to some type of error (perhaps related to S-cards?) and I've not had problems with anything being flagged since then. The only things I can't transfer between my TiVo's are HD programs since my other TiVo is a Series 2...


----------



## Rolow

I've been trouble free to. I just did not want to jinks my self by posting.


----------



## JayBird

Now that the Cox AZ cable card firmware fiasco has finally been resolved, perhaps it's time to address the copy protection issues with Cox...


----------



## BrianAZ

elzool said:


> Having waited from the first post of this thread until the problem with cards in Phoenix were solved and then another week, I ordered mine yesterday.
> 
> Now I have a question I posed in another thread that I was hoping all of you Phoenix residents would answer for me if you would be so kind.
> 
> Is anything copy protected on Cox in Phoenix?
> 
> If so, could Tivo contacts from this thread be used to possibly get them to change their flagging?


Yes they do copy protect, heavily. Most shows I record are protected. I escalated this to the guy I had been working with @ Tivo and his response is that they have *no* ability to press Cox to remove the protection.


----------



## BrianAZ

JayBird said:


> Now that the Cox AZ cable card firmware fiasco has finally been resolved, perhaps it's time to address the copy protection issues with Cox...


I'm with you. Now that the partial recordings issue is resolved, this is the one thing preventing me from buying a second TivoHD.


----------



## andygriffith

Is this a discretionary practice by Cox? If so, I wonder what their reasoning is, I don't think they have a dog in the fight if they are concerned about improper usage of recordings.


----------



## JayBird

Repeated from an earlier post...



JayBird said:


> For those who would like to escalate this with Cox...
> 
> General Manager, Cox Arizona
> [email protected]
> 
> Vice President Public Affairs, Cox Arizona
> [email protected]


I think we should all send these guys some e-mail regarding the copy protection issue.

According to this post, folks with Comcast in Houston were able to get them to change the copy protection bits on everything but the premium channels by contacting the higher-ups at Comcast and filing complaints with the FCC. That would suggest that it's at least possible to get it fixed with Cox here in AZ as well.

Who's on board?


----------



## saibari

Would someone please explain this "copy protection" business? I've not noticed any issues in this regard, but maybe I don't know what to look for? ... Not that I _want_ to find another issue to stress over!


----------



## BrianAZ

saibari said:


> Would someone please explain this "copy protection" business? I've not noticed any issues in this regard, but maybe I don't know what to look for? ... Not that I _want_ to find another issue to stress over!


Search for "CCI"


----------



## JayBird

saibari said:


> Would someone please explain this "copy protection" business? I've not noticed any issues in this regard, but maybe I don't know what to look for? ... Not that I _want_ to find another issue to stress over!


The digital MPEG bitstream that is received from Cox contains a CCI byte that specifies copy protection flags. Since Series 3 and TiVo HD TiVos record the raw digital bitstream as received from Cox, it also preserves this byte (as required by all the DRM BS). TiVo was forced to obey the flags in the CCI byte in order to be allowed to enable MRV and TTG on Series 3 and TiVo HD TiVos.

The problem is that certain cable providers, like Cox here in AZ, incorrectly set the flags in the CCI byte to copy protect programming on certain channels that shouldn't be copy protected, preventing us TiVo users from using MRV and TTG on programs recorded from those channels. You can record it on your TiVo, you just can't use MRV to watch it on another TiVo, or use TTG to transfer it to a PC. If you don't care about MRV or TTG, then this doesn't affect you.

TiVo customers with Comcast in the Houston, TX area were also faced with this same problem, and, after much letter writing to Comcast executives and filing of complaints with the FCC, were able to get Comcast to clear the copy protection flags on all but the premium channels (see this post).

Earlier today, I sent an e-mail to Mr. Rizley and Mr. Johnson at Cox regarding this issue. I hope that others following this thread will follow suit. I'm hoping that they will address this issue and clear the copy protection flags on all of the non-premium channels on the Cox AZ network without the need for us TiVo users here in AZ to start a similar letter writing / complaint filing campaign, as was required to get the cablecard issues resolved. We would much prefer to work with Cox, rather than against Cox, to get this resolved. But at the same time, if necessary, I'm sure we can all band together to make sure it gets resolved one way or another.


----------



## saibari

JayBird said:


> The digital MPEG bitstream that is received from Cox contains a CCI byte that specifies copy protection flags. Since Series 3 and TiVo HD TiVos record the raw digital bitstream as received from Cox, it also preserves this byte (as required by all the DRM BS). TiVo was forced to obey the flags in the CCI byte in order to be allowed to enable MRV and TTG on Series 3 and TiVo HD TiVos.
> 
> The problem is that certain cable providers, like Cox here in AZ, incorrectly set the flags in the CCI byte to copy protect programming on certain channels that shouldn't be copy protected, preventing us TiVo users from using MRV and TTG on programs recorded from those channels. You can record it on your TiVo, you just can't use MRV to watch it on another TiVo, or use TTG to transfer it to a PC. If you don't care about MRV or TTG, then this doesn't affect you. ...


I see. Thanks Jay! So this is different from the flags that caused programs to delete themselves after about an hour or so. I've not had a problem with this because I don't ever transfer to my PC and don't often transfer between my TiVo's. When I've wanted to do this, the only time I had a problem was with HD recordings since my other TiVo is series 2. However, I just checked and three non-HD programs: Mad Men, a Sci channel program, and an HBO movie all had the copyright issue that prevents transferring to my other TiVo.


----------



## JayBird

saibari said:


> I see. Thanks Jay! So this is different from the flags that caused programs to delete themselves after about an hour or so. I've not had a problem with this because I don't ever transfer to my PC and don't often transfer between my TiVo's. When I've wanted to do this, the only time I had a problem was with HD recordings since my other TiVo is series 2. However, I just checked and three non-HD programs: Mad Men, a Sci channel program, and an HBO movie all had the copyright issue that prevents transferring to my other TiVo.


I believe the flags you speak of are also contained in the same CCI byte.

Don't expect the copy protection to be cleared on premium channels (e.g. HBO), but they shouldn't be applied to any of the non-premium channels.

None of my programs that were recorded on Sci-Fi (50) can be copied. Taking a look at the programs on my TiVo HD w/ TiVo Desktop, the programs on the following channels _*are not *_copy protected:

13 KAZT
41 HGTV
51 Comedy Central
52 E!
60 Bravo
62 TLC
139 Encore WAM
703 KTVK - 3 HD
705 KPHO - CBS HD
706 KASW - CW HD
710 KSAZ - FOX HD
712 KPNX - NBC HD
715 KNXV - ABC HD

On the other hand, *all *of the programs on the following channels *are *copy protected:

50 Sci-Fi
104 Investigation Discovery
720 Science Channel HD
723 Discovery Channel HD
740 A&E HD
757 Animal Planet HD
762 History HD

I can't speak for any of the other channels at this time since I don't have any current recordings on any channels other than those listed above, and I don't currently subscribe to any premium channels. Perhaps others can chime in with info regarding some of the other channels.


----------



## JayBird

FYI... see here regarding the CCI byte flag values.

A CCI value of 0x03 would cause programs to self-delete after 90 minutes. This is clearly the value that you were referring to.

A CCI value of 0x01 or 0x02 means you can record it, but you can't copy it off the TiVo.

Only if the CCI value is 0x00 can you use MRV or TTG to copy a program.


----------



## saibari

So yes, the partial recordings seem to be a thing of the past--yay!  (though I never did get to vote in the poll) However, I'm still having some pixelation (though it hasn't been too bad--not like it was before) _and_ I still have grayed out channels. The other day I noticed that a subset of channels--in the upper 100's--was grayed out. Since these all appeared to be sports channels I decided not to worry about it. But this means the grayed-out-channels problem isn't completely solved. If it doesn't get any worse than this, though, I suppose I can live with it!


----------



## JayBird

Since it seems that this problem is localized to you, as the rest of us (or at least most of us) are not experiencing the same problems that you are, it's probably not a TiVo or cable card issue, but something to do with your particular cable signal.

How old is your house in Ahwatukee? I used to live in Ahwatukee in a house that was built in 1987, and the cable TV wiring in the house was all RG-59 instead of RG-6, which caused some signal issues with digital cable and high-speed Internet service. To top that, if I remember correctly, originally the cables were all connected to a non-weatherproof splitter on the outside the house that wasn't even contained in a box - it was just hanging loose on the outside of the side of the garage. Not exactly the best thing for good signal strength and low noise on the wire...

Have you had Cox out to check the signal levels?

What signal level does your TiVo report when you try to tune to one of the channels that ends up grey?


----------



## saibari

JayBird said:


> Since it seems that this problem is localized to you, as the rest of us (or at least most of us) are not experiencing the same problems that you are, it's probably not a TiVo or cable card issue, but something to do with your particular cable signal.
> 
> How old is your house in Ahwatukee? I used to live in Ahwatukee in a house that was built in 1987, and the cable TV wiring in the house was all RG-59 instead of RG-6, which caused some signal issues with digital cable and high-speed Internet service.
> 
> To top that, if I remember correctly, originally the cables were all connected to a non-weatherproof splitter on the outside the house that wasn't even contained in a box - it was just hanging loose on the outside of the side of the garage. Not exactly the best thing for good signal strength and low noise on the wire...


The house is 15 years old. However, I've not had any issues at all with my Cox internet service (wireless) or digital telephone service, and never had any issues with my digital cable television service in conjunction with my Series 2 TiVo. So if the issue has to do with signal irregularities, wouldn't my internet service, telephone, and digital cable/series 2 TiVo be affected as well?



JayBird said:


> Have you had Cox out to check the signal levels?


Yes, Cox has been out and checked the signal strength and connections multiple times. ...



JayBird said:


> What signal level does your TiVo report when you try to tune to one of the channels that ends up grey?


How do I check the signal level? Would it be different for the grayed out channel than a non-grayed out channel? How could that be? Don't all channels receive the same signal strength at any given time?


----------



## Supermurph

I've mainly noticed the copy protection on HBO and on MHD (now Palladia). I don't see those as channels that they would ever remove protection from. The locals, Comedy Central, new channels, etc are all free to copy. 

Quick update on the cablecard from me. I was part of the test and have had the update for about 2 weeks longer and I still have had no trouble. So, it really does see to be fixed. FINALLY!!!!!


----------



## andygriffith

No gray channels here either. No authorization loss and definitely no partials.

I was seeing a lot of pixelaztion and loss of signal on 715 tonight, but when that happens, it seems localized to a local HD channel. Not sure who would be at fault for that. The network or Cox.


----------



## saibari

andygriffith said:


> No gray channels here either. No authorization loss and definitely no partials.
> 
> I was seeing a lot of pixelaztion and loss of signal on 715 tonight, but when that happens, it seems localized to a local HD channel. Not sure who would be at fault for that. The network or Cox.


Yep, I've had problems with pixelation on 715 on my recorded soap (All My Children) for the past couple of recordings...


----------



## JayBird

saibari said:


> How do I check the signal level? Would it be different for the grayed out channel than a non-grayed out channel? How could that be? Don't all channels receive the same signal strength at any given time?


Messages and Settings -> Settings -> Channels -> Signal Strength - Cable

And, no, it's not the same for all channels. For me, most channels are 100, but some are only in the 90s.


----------



## saibari

On The View today Whoopi Goldberg and Sherri Shepherd were complaining about the horrible customer service they're getting from DirecTV and TimeWarner respectively that's driving them crazy. ... so I guess we're screwed no matter who we are, where we are, or who we get service from!


----------



## enigmakv

JayBird said:


> Repeated from an earlier post...
> 
> I think we should all send these guys some e-mail regarding the copy protection issue.
> 
> Who's on board?


I just found your post. I too am unhappy with the copy protection in PHX.

Here is a letter I sent to Cox support in May08...



> I recently switched my cable box to a TiVo box. I travel for a living and was hoping to use TiVo to record my programs and then take them with me on my iPod when I travel. I have done this in the past on a ReplayTV unit with relative success.
> 
> The problem I am having is that most of the programs I record on the TiVo are "protected" and I cannot transfer them to the computer.
> 
> After much online research, I have discovered that this "protection" is set via a "CCI Flag" in the MPEG stream.
> 
> The protection does not seem to make sense in many cases as it is difficult to believe that TVLand would be sending out protected versions of 40-year old programs (Star Trek) that have been chopped up repeatedly over the years.
> 
> Upon checking on TiVo's diagnostics, it appears that indeed, the CCI Flag is set to 0x02 ("copy once") on many channels that Cox broadcasts.
> 
> My understanding is that the FCC prohibits setting the CCI Flag on Over-the-Air broadcasts and indeed, I don't seem to have too much problem with the Network channels.
> 
> It is also my understanding that the decision to set the CCI Flag on all other channels rests with EITHER the channel itself or the cable company.
> 
> Online research indicates that "almost ALL non-premium networks are currently transmitting their feeds without the CCI Flag turned on".
> 
> If this is the case, it indicates that Cox Cable is adding the CCI Flag to these channels' feeds.
> 
> I am writing to you to seek information about this situation...
> 
> Is Cox adding protection to these channels?
> 
> May I be provided with a list of the channels/networks that Cox "protects"?
> 
> Have said channels asked Cox to add the CCI Flag?
> 
> If not, how can I go about having the flag removed from these channels?
> 
> May I be provided with a list of channels/networks that have asked Cox to "protect" their feeds?
> 
> Thank you in advance for your attention to this issue.
> 
> Sincerely,


And the response I got from Cox...



> Thank you for your recent e-mail to Cox Communications regarding your
> Cox Digital Cable service. We are pleased to assist you.
> 
> The content of certain broadcasted channels can be protected in one of
> two ways, by the broadcaster or by TiVo itself. We have no control over
> the protection of certain programs. TiVo has disabled that function on
> some units so you may wish to contact them for further technical
> assistance.
> 
> We regret any confusion you are experiencing with regard to your cable
> television settings. You can view settings and other troubleshooting
> information for Cox Cable and Digital Cable services by visiting the
> following Web site:
> 
> https://www.cox.com/support/arizona/cable/default.asp
> 
> Thank you again for contacting us via e-mail. Please let us know if we
> can be of further assistance.


I gave up hope then, but think I will renew my efforts with the email addresses provided here.


----------



## saibari

Ok, so Cox is saying that TiVo is responsible for the copy-protection? But you know that this is not the case? Has anyone contacted TiVo about this? Why does this sound like the predicament we were in with the cablecard problem--Cox and TiVo pointing fingers at each other?! 

Have you filed a complaint with the FCC? It took me a while to get a response from the FCC about the complaint I filed, but I did get one in which Cox noted that the matter was resolved by the firmware update.


----------



## enigmakv

saibari said:


> Ok, so Cox is saying that TiVo is responsible for the copy-protection? But you know that this is not the case? Has anyone contacted TiVo about this? Why does this sound like the predicament we were in with the cablecard problem--Cox and TiVo pointing fingers at each other?!
> 
> Have you filed a complaint with the FCC? It took me a while to get a response from the FCC about the complaint I filed, but I did get one in which Cox noted that the matter was resolved by the firmware update.


So are you saying that a firmware upgrade will allow me to transfer all the shows that have historically been marked "private"?

esp. Battlestar Galactica off the Sci-Fi Channel?


----------



## saibari

enigmakv said:


> So are you saying that a firmware upgrade will allow me to transfer all the shows that have historically been marked "private"?
> 
> esp. Battlestar Galactica off the Sci-Fi Channel?


Sorry to mislead you--I filed a complaint with the FCC about the partial recordings problem we were all having. The firmware update solved_ that_ problem. I never knew about this problem until recent posts to this board since I rarely try to do anything that would violate the copyright code...


----------



## JayBird

enigmakv said:


> I too am unhappy with the copy protection in PHX.
> 
> Here is a letter I sent to Cox support in May08...
> 
> ...
> 
> And the response I got from Cox...
> 
> ...
> 
> I gave up hope then, but think I will renew my efforts with the email addresses provided here.


You are correct that Cox is introducting the CCI copy protection bits on numerous channels. If the copy protection bits were included in the original feed from the source, then other cable systems (e.g. Comcast in Houston) would not be able to transmit these channels with the copy protection turned off.

The response you received was clearly the scripted response given by a customer service drone who had no clue about what you were talking about. I no longer bother using the standard customer service channels for anything but the most basic of problems, as the quality of customer support available through those channels is so pathetic it's pointless.

I sent e-mail to the Cox execs at the e-mail addresses above on Sept. 10th and, so far, I have received no response. If many of us annoy them about this issue, perhaps they will be more responsive.

Unfortunately, TiVo seems uninterested in getting involved in a dispute related to the copy protection bits, so it appears that we are on our own to battle it out with Cox and the FCC. Personally, I would think TiVo would have a vested interest in getting these issues resolved, as I'm holding off buying a 2nd TiVo HD until I know that I can transfer all of my shows between them. Otherwise, MRV is a useless feature to me, and thus so is a 2nd TiVo.

Complaints to the FCC can be filed here. Unfortunately, the FCC doesn't seem all that responsive to resolving customer complaints.


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## JayBird

Here's a copy of the text of the complaint I submitted to the FCC:



> Cox Communications in Arizona (Cox AZ) is incorrectly setting the CCI byte of many non-premium cable TV channels to 0x02, prohibiting users of TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD digital video recorders (DVRs) from lawfully using the TiVo-To-Go (TTG) and Multi-Room Viewing (MRV) features of their TiVo DVRs for programs that are recorded from the affected channels.
> 
> Here is a partial list of the affected channels, based on my personal observations:
> 
> 50 Sci-Fi
> 104 Investigation Discovery
> 720 Science Channel HD
> 723 Discovery Channel HD
> 740 A&E HD
> 757 Animal Planet HD
> 762 History HD
> 
> For example, on channel 723 (Discovery HD) at 6:00 AM on 9/21/2008, Cox AZ transmitted an episode of "Mythbusters", which incorrectly has the CCI byte set to 0x02.
> 
> Other TiVo users in Arizona that have cable service from Cox AZ have indicated other non-premium channels that are also affected.
> 
> Attempting to resolve this issue with Cox AZ directly has been ineffective.


We'll see where that gets us...

I encourage anybody else who cares about this issue to file their own complaints with the Cox execs and with the FCC.


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## Kershek

This is a great bit of detective work by you guys. Hats off to you for digging deep to find the real reasons we're having these problems and following up with the right people to get it changed. Thank you!


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## Rolow

Is anyone had SDV turned on yet? I in Peoria and still get all my channels.

Oh and here is a new thread on the copy protection issue.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=406808


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## JayBird

I was channel surfing the other day and noticed that a couple channels that I knew were on the SDV list were still working. The truth is, DIY (133) is the only channel on the list I care about, so this first wave of SDV won't affect me much. However, I suspect that once SDV goes live, any new HD channels will be subject to being put on SDV, which is a much bigger concern. But based on other threads, people are starting to get their tuning adapters, so it shouldn't be long now before Cox starts deploying them.

As for the copy protection flags, based on reading other threads, it sounds like the channel providers don't set the flags, but, per the contract with the channel providers, the cable companies are required to set the flags. As these contracts are renewed, the requirements for the copy protection flags are being added to the contracts by the providers, and so eventually everything will be copy protected other than the local stuff.

The loopholes appear to be that _*streaming *_content and _*moving *_content is allowed even if the copy protection bits are set, so if TiVo can modify MRV to allow for streaming programs and/or moving programs instead of just copying programs, we potentially could still be in business. At this point I'm hoping that TiVo is listening and working on rolling these changes into the next software release.

I've had no response from either the execs at Cox or from the FCC, so I'm losing any hope of getting the copy protection flags turned off.


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## Supermurph

Anybody notice that virtually everything is now copy protected except locals? I used to only copy to my computer sparingly. So, I didn't pay that close attention to the copy protection. But, I just got a 2nd Tivo, primarily because of multi-room viewing, and noticed that there was more copy protection than I thought. So, I just checked on my computer ... and indeed, it has changed. 

For instance, Comedy Central (51) is now protected. I looked on my computer and new recordings show as protected, but I have old Comedy Central recordings on my computer. So, this is definitely a change. 

Did anybody ever have any luck with intelligent conversation with Cox?


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## JayBird

I filed a complaint with the FCC a couple months back (see my post earlier in this thread). Just got a letter in the mail last week from the FCC acknowledging my complaint. We'll see if it does any good.


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## JayBird

Ok, today I get a letter with Cox's response to my complaint to the FCC:



> Ladies and Gentlemen:
> 
> CoxCom, Inc. d/b/a Cox Communications Arizona ("Cox") files this letter as its response to the above-referenced complaint by our customer, <name omitted>, regarding the copy protection settings on certain non-premium cable television channels, some of which are referenced in the complaint. In each case, <name omitted> asserts that the copy protection (CCI) setting of "copy one generation" (0x02) is improper for these channels because he is unable to view them using the TiVo-To-Go (TTG) and Multi-Room Viewing (MRV) products, as they are currently configured by TiVo, to mobilize content recorded on the TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD digital video recorders (DVRs).
> 
> Cox is fully compliant with the copy protection rules set forth in Section 76.1904(b)(1)(ii) of the FCC's Rules and Regulations which provides that a single generation of a copy is an acceptable standard for non-premium subscription (i.e. cable) television. This standard is also consistent with the agreements Cox has with various programmers to carry their non-premium cable content. It appears that TiVo DVRs also properly recognize this "copy once" standard and do not generate further copies as a means of further distributing the content using the TTG and MVR features it offers. Cox, therefore, refers <name omitted> to TiVo to explore ways that the TTG and MVR features may be retooled to accommodate the functionality he desires in a manner that is consistent with the applicable copy protection standards.


(Yes, "MVR" instead of "MRV" in a couple of places is a typo in the original letter.)

So, it seems, unless there is a whole lot more pressure put on Cox regarding this issue, they aren't going to budge on changing the CCI byte.

Which takes us back to pushing TiVo to enhance MRV to support streaming and/or moving content from one box to another instead of copying content. Otherwise, MRV and TTG are effectively useless features on Series 3 / TiVo HD boxes.

Until this is resolved, I won't be buying any additional TiVo HDs.


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## BrianAZ

This situation has irked me to the point that I have built a HTPC and purchased a DMA2100 extender for my bedroom. Tivo really needs to address this or these competitors (VMC, Sage, etc) are going to blow right by them. I can't tell you how nice it is to pause in my living room, hop into bed and hit play again before falling asleep. My wife has stopped asking me for a second TivoHD for the bedroom even!

The only hangup at this point is I can't get premium channels without purchasing an OEM PC to get the cablecard tuners. I'm not sure I want to spend $1k just for HBO/Showtime and HD versions of some non-local channels. I am investigating Hauppauge's HD-PVR as an interim option though.

I've no idea if TivoHD is capable of streaming, but if it is, I hope they're listening.


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## JayBird

I've considered such options, but a decent HTPC w/ dual tuners, cable card support, etc. is still at a price point beyond the cost of a 2nd TiVo HD and another lifetime sub. So I'm still holding out for TiVo to start supporting streaming (or transferring - i.e. moving instead of copying) between TiVo HDs to get around the copy protection issues. Once it's resolved, only then will I buy the 2nd TiVo HD.

The other option I'm considering is getting a HDMI splitter and running HDMI (or just running HD component video) from the family room to the bedroom and connecting it to the bedroom TV. Then all I need is a remote (I can use the original TiVo remote, since I have a Harmony 880 in the family room) and a wireless remote extender (which I also happen to have in a parts box somewhere). Then I can watch the TiVo HD from either location.

The only flaw in that plan is if one of us wants to watch what's on TiVo in one room and the other wants to watch it in the other room (which happens quite often in our home). So that's why I'd prefer a 2nd TiVo HD as a better solution - but it's only a better solution if they fix MRV.


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## BrianAZ

JayBird said:


> I've considered such options, but a decent HTPC w/ dual tuners, cable card support, etc. is still at a price point beyond the cost of a 2nd TiVo HD and another lifetime sub. So I'm still holding out for TiVo to start supporting streaming (or transferring - i.e. moving instead of copying) between TiVo HDs to get around the copy protection issues. Once it's resolved, only then will I buy the 2nd TiVo HD.


Agreed. It was pricey. My rationale was that I use it for more than just HTPC activities, but I think that's the hobbyist in me talking .



JayBird said:


> The other option I'm considering is getting a HDMI splitter and running HDMI (or just running HD component video) from the family room to the bedroom and connecting it to the bedroom TV. Then all I need is a remote (I can use the original TiVo remote, since I have a Harmony 880 in the family room) and a wireless remote extender (which I also happen to have in a parts box somewhere). Then I can watch the TiVo HD from either location.
> 
> The only flaw in that plan is if one of us wants to watch what's on TiVo in one room and the other wants to watch it in the other room (which happens quite often in our home). So that's why I'd prefer a 2nd TiVo HD as a better solution - but it's only a better solution if they fix MRV.


Or maybe a Slingbox + Slingcatcher. Definitely more expensive, but I don't like having cables running around my house where I can avoid it.


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## JayBird

BrianAZ said:


> Agreed. It was pricey. My rationale was that I use it for more than just HTPC activities, but I think that's the hobbyist in me talking .


Yea, I have the same problem... The problem is that all my "hobby" expenses require a spousal review.



> Or maybe a Slingbox + Slingcatcher. Definitely more expensive, but I don't like having cables running around my house where I can avoid it.


We're planning on remodelling our family room anyway, so I'll have the cabling run through the walls. I'll probably run both types of HD video cabling, plus Ethernet, to give me plenty of options and make things as flexible as possible.


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## warewolf

Lets try getting Verizon's attention

https://www22.verizon.com/ForHomeDS...extPageName=FN&fiosFN=Y&Type=FS&Window=POPUP\

Sign up for notification of when FIOS will be available in your area.


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## Kershek

I tried signing up, but it said I had cookies disabled and I definitely don't.

I don't see why they need a cookie just to submit a web form, anyways.


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## omeganet

I am having a Cablecard issue as well, and perhaps someone can help....

I have two S3 units with Cox digital cable / scientific atlanta cable cards. After two years of working fine I had a mess of my season passes and some minor problems, so I decided to do a full reset of the Tivo box.

On the first box, the cable cards didn't work after startup. After several calls to Cox, I finally got them to resend the auth signal and the first box then worked fine.

I then reset the second box and called Cox to resend the auth signal on the second box. It took about 5 calls before I got someone who understood what I meant. They say they have resent it, but it still isn't working, and I've waited about two weeks. Is there anything I can do? I know the cable cards are good because they worked prior to having the box reset.

And for your amusement, here is my joke of the evening (actual conversation)

Wife: Will you call Comcast again to get the #*@# cable working?
Me: We don't have Comcast, we have Cox
Wife: Well Comcast has Cox too, but only during the superbowl


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