# Get Anamorphic DVD Quality HDTV on your trusty old Series 2



## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

*Get Anamorphic DVD Quality HDTV on your trusty old Series 2* :up:

The following exchange from here  has led to understanding how we can take partial advantage of HDTV today. If you have a 16x9 TV, or a 4x3 with 16x9 enhanced mode, you can get a very nice DVD quality (480i) picture out a SA2.

Who else has such stories to post on this????



Shawn95GT said:


> Well, FWIW I'm recording 16x9 and playing back at 16x9 on both of my un-modified S2 Tivos. The source is ATSC tuners downconverting the HD signal and cramming it into a 4:3 frame. If you watch it on a 4:3 TV it looks stretched vertically. On my 16x9 TV set to stretch 4:3 inputs out to 16x9, it is rendered perfect.
> 
> Yes, the DVI / HDMI input looks much better on my TV but my '16x9 squish' looks pretty darn good for SD.
> 
> It's an acceptable interrum solution for me. Tivo #3 arrives tomorrow.





HDTiVo said:


> That's pretty neat. You are getting anamorphic video out of your ATSC converter and recording it to TiVo. You are the first person I heard mention they are doing it. I've always wondered why its not done commonly.





Shawn95GT said:


> No, but I just lie to the Tivo.
> 
> I tell it I have cable coming in via RF channel 4 from the cable box (I do), and for the ATSC box I tell it I have Dish Network coming in via S-video (this is actually my ATSC tuner). I uncheck all but the local channels from the channels I receive. The only channel that's wrong is PBS because PBS HD programming doesn't match the SD broadcast.
> 
> So far, so good aside fromt he persistant 'your satellite channel line up has changed' messages since Charlie likes to mix and match channels daily.





HDTiVo said:


> Again, this is Soooooooo Coooooooool
> 
> This should be a sticky or something. Everyone should know it.
> 
> ...





Shawn95GT said:


> My ATSC tuners are actually ex-Voom recievers.
> 
> What gave me the idea to try it was that I actually had to work to get the HD to show letterboxed on my 4:3 set when I had the Voom service. I haven't played with any other ATSC STB tuners.
> 
> ...





HDTiVo said:


> $50!!! Looks like a Voom box is coming to my house then...
> 
> Why don't you post a seperate thread just on this subject alone...


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

I've never used Dish Network, do it's boxes normally have OTA (NTSC) tuners so you can get to the local channels via local channel numbers? Is that the service with the fewest
non-local channels to uncheck?


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

Maybe I'll put some pics or even a sample video together to better
show what's going on.

The $50ish pricepoint seems to jive with the current ebay offerings.
Just be sure it will work to scan local channels. If you can get one
local that they can demonstrate that it works, all the better.

Everything you never wanted to know about the Voom box

I'll look for a definative list of things to check for (other than it
works  ) for buying a Voom receiver.

My #3 showed up today and i'll set it up in place of my #2 - I'll get screen grabs etc.


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## Malibyte (Jun 12, 2005)

vman41 said:


> I've never used Dish Network, do it's boxes normally have OTA (NTSC) tuners so you can get to the local channels via local channel numbers? Is that the service with the fewest
> non-local channels to uncheck?


I don't think that he has Dish, he's just telling the TiVo that the ATSC tuner is a Dish receiver.

But to answer your question, I have Dish Network with the locals (another $5/month  ) - they use the same local channel numbers as they would OTA or via a cable box.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Wow. Very creative. This is the 2nd time I've heard of VOOM boxes being of any use. It didn't realize they were quite this useful.


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## MighTiVo (Oct 26, 2000)

Shawn95GT said:


> The $50ish pricepoint seems to jive with the current ebay offerings. Just be sure it will work to scan local channels. If you can get one
> local that they can demonstrate that it works, all the better.


Why wouldn't it work for local?
Does it have to have been activated, does it depend on the local broadcaster using a specific technology, or is some hardware issue with the box?


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

MighTiVo said:


> Why wouldn't it work for local?
> Does it have to have been activated, does it depend on the local broadcaster using a specific technology, or is some hardware issue with the box?


If they weren't activated, they are expensive door stops. People that bailed on Voom early got their receivers shut down and their boxes are useless.

Those of us who were on till the end have boxes that are usable for OTA. Those people in my situation (3 receivers installed / leased for $1) got a nice parting gift from Voom.

New in the box, you won't even be able to scan for locals. All these are good for is parts (remote / Off-air module / etc). I've heard that the authorization is on the card and taking a good card to a bad receiver gets it up and running. This doesn't help you unless you have a working box that later had a hardware failure though. The other thing to look out for is PIN locks that some people put on the boxes. If they have this you'll have to brute force the pin. The Voom applied 0000 or 1111 to mine when I changed my programming package - I can't remember which.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Beyond the Voom box, there must be other makes & models that can also do "anamorphic mode"

What if you put one of these boxes between your SA2 and your HD cable STB? Couldn't you get the STB to tune the channel, the "ATSC box" to appropriately configure whatever the signal is, and get the TiVo to record?


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## PhillyGuy (Mar 12, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> Beyond the Voom box, there must be other makes & models that can also do "anamorphic mode"
> 
> What if you put one of these boxes between your SA2 and your HD cable STB? Couldn't you get the STB to tune the channel, the "ATSC box" to appropriately configure whatever the signal is, and get the TiVo to record?


Just about any HDTV tuner can do that. I have a LG 3510A connected to Tivo.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

What PhillyGuy said. There are several OTA/QAM tuners out there that can output downconverted HD in anamorphic mode that you can use as input to your DVR. If you are looking to do this there are 2 things that are important:
1. A channel lineup supported by your DVR that matches your tuner channel numbers - for OTA this is usually not a problem, but for QAM you need some kind of channel mapping scheme.
2. IR blaster has to work with the tuner.

I've been doing this for years with ReplayTV and a Samsung SIR-T451 (in OTA mode) connected to S-video input.


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## xnevergiveinx (Apr 5, 2004)

i need to sticky this thread for when i get a cable box


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## Ereth (Jun 16, 2000)

There was a poster who was using a Samsung OTA STB to do this over two years ago. I forget his name, but he had instructions on how to do it, and the key was, as this guy has discovered, the ability to output anamorphic HD over the S-Video connection.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

I experimented with configuring my Accurian HDTV receiver as a satellite connection. I wasn't impressed with the picture quality vis-a-vis the HDMI output straight to the TV and I couldn't get the TiVo to control the channel. The codes for a couple of the brands would make the closed caption setting change or bring up the guide or setup menu.

Which satellite service supported by TiVo has the fewest channels and locals?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

I've got a new HDTV "in the mail." 

I checked with my cable co. and I can replace my current digital STB with their HD STB for $3.45/mo more. I have analog cable, but with the HD STB I should be able to also get some clear HD channels.

Once I get all this, I'm going to see if I can get the HD STB to put out anamorphic to the TiVo. If so, I'll use it that way.

I can imagine enjoying S2 recorded HD Football broadcasts this fall on that set up. :up:


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

vman41 said:


> I experimented with configuring my Accurian HDTV receiver as a satellite connection. I wasn't impressed with the picture quality vis-a-vis the HDMI output straight to the TV and I couldn't get the TiVo to control the channel. The codes for a couple of the brands would make the closed caption setting change or bring up the guide or setup menu.
> 
> Which satellite service supported by TiVo has the fewest channels and locals?


Comparing the HD output to SD of course the true HD one will look much better. assuming the source is 1080i the Tivo is less than 1/2 the vertical resolution and less than 1/3 the horizontal resolution.

You want to see where the anamorphic shines? Compared the anamorphic output to the SD signal off-air of the same channel.... or the same channel in SD from your cable provider (your other recordable options). It'll be no contest.

As for sat provider... I use Dish network and un-check a LOT of channels. You only have to do it once!

I'm sorry I haven't put together any pics to show what's going on but I think people are getting the jist of it. My #3 ended up connected to my 4DTV.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> I've got a new HDTV "in the mail."
> 
> I checked with my cable co. and I can replace my current digital STB with their HD STB for $3.45/mo more. I have analog cable, but with the HD STB I should be able to also get some clear HD channels.
> 
> ...


 If it's a Motorola box then no it doesn't output anamorphic via Svideo/composite. If it's Scientific Atlanta then possibly.


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## drip52c (Apr 8, 2006)

Any other tuners out there to get these capabilities? I have a S2 with HD TV and Charter Digital cable with an HD box, any help...thanks guys...


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

I actually do this with my Cablevision provided Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4200HD box.

Set the output mode to 480i Widescreen, then HD channels on a 4:3 tv look all stretched up/down, but if you output that to a tivo, and then have that tivo hooked up to an 16:9 hdtv, you stretch the content to 16:9 and wow, the quality is really good!!

Reverse engineering this, my 27" Sony WEGA SD TV has something called 16:9 enhanced mode, which squishes any 4:3 input into a 16:9 aspect ratio.

Doing this, I can watch the tivo's stretched content in my tv's compressed mode and thus increasing the quality of the picture (since the interlacing intervals are squished closer together and therefore the picture to my eye looks MUCH BETTER!!!).

I used to do this on my XBOX for years before I had an HDTV, I set up my xbox for WIDESCREEN mode (not HD mode of course) using the HDTV cable pack and then put my sony wega into 16:9 enhanced mode. Looked great!!! ...also the same was done for the dvd playback feature of the xbox as well. It wasnt hdtv, but it was as close as I could get on a regular CRT set.

EDIT: Please see my post here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3933568&&#post3933568 for an update on this.


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## dtreese (May 6, 2005)

I've mentioned to several people asking about this situation that my Motorola cable box/dvr has component and rca outputs -- I have component direct to the tv and rca to TiVo. For HD channels, the RCA output is letterboxed, so I just kick it out to a 16:9 image and use the full screen. Not quite as good as the HD output, but not bad, either.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

blacknoi said:


> I actually do this with my Cablevision provided Scientific Atlanta Explorer 4200HD box.
> 
> Set the output mode to 480i Widescreen, then HD channels on a 4:3 tv look all stretched up/down, but if you output that to a tivo, and then have that tivo hooked up to an 16:9 hdtv, you stretch the content to 16:9 and wow, the quality is really good!!
> 
> ...


This is exactly the stuff we are talking about...

I also have the CV SciAtl Exp 4200HD. I was just monkeying earlier today to find those settings you describe, but where are they? I did not see them.

Do you get your TV(s) to auto-sense the anamorphic S-out from your TiVo, or do you have to manually put the TV(s) into FULL or 16x9 enhanced mode(s)?


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

blacknoi said:


> ...Reverse engineering this, my 27" Sony WEGA SD TV has something called 16:9 enhanced mode, which squishes any 4:3 input into a 16:9 aspect ratio...


Umm...

You're SQUISHING a 4x3 picture into 16x9?

Uhh...

It's height is being reduced and fake black bars are being added?


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## punditguy (Dec 23, 2005)

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I used the composite video out from my HDTV -- and I managed to get some nice 16x9 out of my S2. This thread is the greatest evah!


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

gastrof said:


> Umm...
> 
> You're SQUISHING a 4x3 picture into 16x9?
> 
> ...


That's exactly what a 16x9 enhanced TV does. It takes the anamorphic 16x9 (4x3) and presses it vertically, leaving a proper ratio 16x9 image...the TV is capable of displaying all 480 lines of resolution in the 75% of the verticle height of the tube...so you get a full resolution image.


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

HDTiVo said:


> This is exactly the stuff we are talking about...
> 
> I also have the CV SciAtl Exp 4200HD. I was just monkeying earlier today to find those settings you describe, but where are they? I did not see them.
> 
> Do you get your TV(s) to auto-sense the anamorphic S-out from your TiVo, or do you have to manually put the TV(s) into FULL or 16x9 enhanced mode(s)?


I have to update my post.

The Component out (RGB) is the only port that seems to want to put out the anamorphic picture. I'm not sure what I was thinking originally (although it must have been positive thinking that made it seem that the SVIDEO out would put that out in the stretched format).

So I was hooking up the component outs to my Sony TV, and then using enhanced 16:9 mode.

Since the tivo doesnt have component in, this isnt gonna work.

Sorry for the false hope 

To answer your original question though: To enable all the different modes of the 4200HD, I turned them all on (480i std, 480p std, 480i widescreen, 480p widescreenl, 1080i, 720p) :

-- Turn the cable box off, then press and hold Info and Guide (on the box itself) and the box will enter its output modes wizard setup.

Once you enable them all, hit setup once and move up or down to the picture size option and choose 480i widescreen










I guess if you can find a conversion from component to svideo (or composite) you could do this.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

blacknoi said:


> To answer your original question though: To enable all the different modes of the 4200HD, I turned them all on (480i std, 480p std, 480i widescreen, 480p widescreenl, 1080i, 720p) :
> 
> -- Turn the cable box off, then press and hold Info and Guide (on the box itself) and the box will enter its output modes wizard setup.
> 
> ...


Interesting, I don't have the Picture Format menu item, only Picture Size. I'll monkey with the "reboot" method you describe to see if I can change that.

Thanks very much.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

HDTiVo said:


> Interesting, I don't have the Picture Format menu item, only Picture Size. I'll monkey with the "reboot" method you describe to see if I can change that.
> 
> Thanks very much.


So I did this and sure enough I was able to "enable" everything from 480i Standard to 1080i...

However, I still do not have the Picture Format menu choice...so I can't get anamorphic even out of the Component out...I also could only test the RF out, but I found the same as you did, that there was no anamorphic on it...note I can only say this because Component was anamorphic in the Setup Mode, but RF was not.

A side effect (great!) is that on channel change the box reports the format of the channel, however it only reports if its a change in format from the previous channel. From this I discovered this AM that one "HD" channel is 480p and another is 480i right now; ESPNHD is its trusty 720p....

So, previously the box was converting everying to 1080i on the component out. I didn't realize this, and the result was I was looking at the STB scaling instead of my HDTV's scaling. Sometime I'll see if my TV is better at scaling.


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## jmorgans (Apr 13, 2003)

I've been wanting to do this for a while. But unfortunately my 4:3 Mitsubishi RPTV will not do vertical compression on 480i signals (I'm not sure why). Is anyone using an external video processor to do the vertical compression?


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

Just want to report that I was eventually successful at setting up the SA box to put out anamorphic on component, but not on the S-out. So it turned out to be useless with the TiVo, in my case.

Best wishes to those that have boxes that do this. Enjoy!


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## ashu (Nov 8, 2002)

Umm, for HD channels, my 6412 (Motorola) HD 'DVR' (term used loosely for this abomination) does output anamorphic signal For HD Channels (only) over SVideo. This is what my TiVo records, for the shows I choose to record on my standalone S2 TiVo. And then I view them back in the recorded 480i and zoom them up (proportionately, at the same 16:9) using my TV copntrols.

But it's still 480i info from a potentially 720p/1080i source. Why does this have everyone this excited? BFD! 
And isn't DVD quality 480p, not 480i?
All I'm saying is the thread title is misleading. 

Or am *I* missing something?  (quite likely)


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

ashu said:


> But it's still 480i info from a potentially 720p/1080i source. Why does this have everyone this excited? BFD!
> And isn't DVD quality 480p, not 480i?
> All I'm saying is the thread title is misleading.
> 
> Or am *I* missing something?  (quite likely)


Because non-anamorphic (letterboxed) HD downconvert looks like complete CRAP on a 16x9 set. In my case the anamorphic down convert from my ATSC tuner looks WAY better than the SD channel from my digital cable. Better color and 'proper' 16x9 playback is the big deal for me.

I like to call it "pseudo HD".

It's a nice interrum solution for recording HD until the S3s are available.


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## Spire (Jun 6, 2001)

ashu said:


> And isn't DVD quality 480p, not 480i?


NTSC DVD-Video can be 480p or 480i, or even a mixture of the two.


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## HDTiVo (Nov 27, 2002)

ashu said:


> Or am *I* missing something?  (quite likely)


120 lines of interlaced resolution


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I would not buy a Voom box anymore, TV guide is rolling out the digital version of its guideplus service and the voom box will lock up when it sees the datastream.

I can second the LG-3510 works well with tivo because it accepts 3 digital channels. I used to be able to use a Samsung SIR-T451 but after a sofware update I can no longer get tivo to leave off leading zeros.



vman41 said:


> I experimented with configuring my Accurian HDTV receiver as a satellite connection. I wasn't impressed with the picture quality vis-a-vis the HDMI output straight to the TV and I couldn't get the TiVo to control the channel. The codes for a couple of the brands would make the closed caption setting change or bring up the guide or setup menu.


If you set it up for cable and say that you have a phillips cable box it will work. The problem is you will only have guide for channels that have the same channel number OTA as on cable.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

kb7oeb said:


> I
> If you set it up for cable and say that you have a phillips cable box it will work. The problem is you will only have guide for channels that have the same channel number OTA as on cable.


I've already got 'cable without box', the only way to add in the Accurian as a second source is to treat it like a kind satellite receiver.


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## RARamaker (Dec 1, 2000)

Spire said:


> NTSC DVD-Video can be 480p or 480i, or even a mixture of the two.


To be more precise, DVDs store video data as 480i60. If the original data was 24 fps progressive (film standard), then the DVD or TV can deinterlace the data to 480p24. Since a TiVo also stores the data as 480i60, it can be deinterlaced to produce a 480p24 widescreen image. Thus, the claim of DVD quality.

Russ


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

kb7oeb said:


> I would not buy a Voom box anymore, TV guide is rolling out the digital version of its guideplus service and the voom box will lock up when it sees the datastream.


I'm already seeing this. Luckily it's only on the local PBS station's 1080i channel which I don't get correct guide data for anyways. I 'hid' that channel (8-1) on the Voom box and now tuning channel '8' gives me 8-2 which I do have correct guide data for.

PBS's 1080i channel is nice, but if I want ot enjoyit I'd rather watch it in 'real' HD anyways via the on-board tuner in my TV.



kb7oeb said:


> I can second the LG-3510 works well with tivo because it accepts 3 digital channels. I used to be able to use a Samsung SIR-T451 but after a sofware update I can no longer get tivo to leave off leading zeros.


Funny you should mention that...

My Very first Tivo that I setup like this still tunes the 2-digit numbers for the Voom Box. My other two tune the three digit numbers. I figured it was due to changes in the guided setup. Tivo kind of dumbed it down so you don't have as much control.

I'm hoping the Voom boxes stay functional at least till the Series threes come around!


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

Could someone please "bottom-line" this for me? What is necessary to accomplish this, specifically? Certain cable company HD cable boxes? Or *will this work with any cable company HD cable box*?

I have a Pioneer 810-HS Series 2 TiVo. Does anyone know if I can recorded the downconverted signal onto DVD, and then play it back and get the same effect?


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

bicker said:


> Could someone please "bottom-line" this for me? What is necessary to accomplish this, specifically? Certain cable company HD cable boxes? Or *will this work with any cable company HD cable box*?
> 
> I have a Pioneer 810-HS Series 2 TiVo. Does anyone know if I can recorded the downconverted signal onto DVD, and then play it back and get the same effect?


Bottow line... you need a source (Cable box, ATSC tuner, heck even satellite tuner) that will output anamorphic on the SD outputs. Not all of them will.

The Tivo doesn't care what it's recording. All it knows it's it's 4:3. You have your 16:9 set stretch the recorded anamorphic video to achieve 'the effect'.


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## bicker (Nov 9, 2003)

They use the Motorola DCT 5100 cable box or the Motorola DCT 6200 cable box in my area. Will they actually use the word "anamorphic"? They have a setting called "4:3 Override". It is described like this:


> Finally, use the down button arrow to select 4:3 OVERRIDE. By selecting 480i or 480p you are telling the DCT5100 to send Standard Definition programming to your TV in its original broadcast format.


Is that what I'll need?


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

It's hard to say. That 'sounds' like the opposite of what we are trying to do. It sounds like that mode would let you watch HD on a non-HD TV by letterboxing the 16:9 stuff.

If you can't find someone who has tried it with either of those boxes, you might need to just experiment with them to see if you can get the outpur to go anamorphic on the SD outputs.

This is where the setting is on the Voom Box (click for larger):



Notice no mention of anamorphic.


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## Re-Hash (Aug 24, 2005)

So I'm attempting to do the HDTV tuner -> TiVo trick -- very glad I found this thread! I set up for "Cable & Satellite" with RF cable and satellite via S-Video. The 16:9 480i from my RCA ATSC11 HDTV tuner is coming through on the TiVo's S-Video with no problem. But I've yet to figure out the correct IR blaster code. Anyone muddle through this already?


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## Shawn95GT (Oct 7, 2005)

I just answerd the qustions and the wizard had me changing channels in no time . It helps that it is a Motorola receiver (common codes). I'd think RCA would be just as simple.


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## Re-Hash (Aug 24, 2005)

Yeah, I tried going through the guided setup already for the RCA codes and a couple of others. But I'll try some more before I give up. Worse case, I manually change the channel ahead of time...

I'm also a liitle unclear on how to get the OTA local HD content to map to the correct listing in the channel setup - in fact, I don't see local channels listed for "sat" (maybe because I used "cable & sat" in the setup?).


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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

When I do guided setup I see two sat listings, one nation and one with Phoenix in the name. You have to pick the one with your city to get local listings.

If you set it up as a cable box instead you get a different set of IR codes to try.


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