# Xperi to merge with TiVo



## scherif (Dec 4, 2010)

TiVo to Merge With Entertainment-Tech Firm Xperi in $3 Billion Deal


----------



## Krandor (Jun 10, 2004)

Can’t be worse then the rovi merger.


----------



## jaselzer (Sep 10, 2018)

I am not sure what this means relative to the TiVo hardware business. I could take a wild assed guess and predict that it will result in a slow de-emphasis of TiVo hardware and a continuing development of it's software. I am hoping, and I do not think this is contrary to my prior statement, that TiVo will continue development and plans for the announced dongle and/or some other hardware manufacturers will incorporate TiVo software into retail cable boxes. I am a Fios cable customer and I would be fine with a Fios box powered by TiVo software.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

"TiVo has scrapped plans to split itself into two separate companies, and instead announced a $3 billion merger with Xperi, a company that sells audio, imaging and computing technology products.

The new merged entity will take the Xperi name but will continue to sell entertainment services under the TiVo brand along with Xperi's DTS, HD Radio, and IMAX Enhanced brands."

HD Radio. Now there's some cutting edge technology.


----------



## Podchain (Sep 22, 2019)

Well, if it keeps TiVo alive for a while and maybe kills pre-roll ads, I’m all for it. DEATH TO PRE-ROLL ADS!!! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## shamilian (Mar 27, 2003)

_
From Wikipedia:

Tessera was founded in 1990.

Some company milestones are listed below:
_

_1990: company founded by former IBM research scientists_
_1994: Hitachi and Shinko Electric Industries Ltd. license Tessera technologies_
_2005: Samsung licenses Tessera technologies_
_2005: Acquired assets of Shellcase MVP [2]_
_2006: Acquired DigitalOptics Corporation [3]_
_2007 Acquired Eyesquad [4]_
_2008: Acquired FotoNation [5]_
_2009: Won International Trade Commission ruling against Motorola, Qualcomm, Freescale Semiconductor and Spansion in May [6]_
_2011: Founded Invensas Corporation_
_November 2011: Samsung extends 2005 license agreement with Tessera [7]_
_2013: Sold Micro-Optics business_
_2013: Closed leased manufacturing facility in Zhuhai, China, and consolidated manufacturing capabilities in Taiwan [8]_
_2014: Announced cessation of mems | cam manufacturing operations [9]_
_2015 Acquired Ziptronix [10]_
_November 2016: Acquired assets from Pelican Imaging [11]_
_December 2016: Acquired DTS, Inc. [12]_
_February 2017: Changed name from *Tessera Holding Corporation* to *Xperi Corporation* [13]_

Looks Like they aquire assets....
then license to others.....
patent trolls ... ?

Rovi part2....


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Well one thing I noted, its the end of the line for Tivo as a company. There will no longer be a company called Tivo. Will just be a brand / marketing licence. Other than that, it seems like more of the same as what happened with Rovi. Just acquired the patents to make money licencing them.

So long Tivo. It's been a fun if aggravating ride these 20 years.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

shamilian said:


> _
> Looks Like they aquire assets....
> then license to others.....
> patent trolls ... ?
> ...


The linked article touts the biggest accomplishment of the merger is that the new company will have over 10,000 patents so it sounds like they believe their biggest revenue will be licensing. That fits well with TiVo's model, so the merger makes more sense.

The article also mentions that Tivo shareholders will hold majority share in the new company so it sounds like Tivo will be in the driver's seat despite keeping the Xperi CEO.

The part I find odd, is that they are keeping the Xperi name. Tivo is much more recognizable. I've never heard of Xperi.

Overall though if this averts the death spiral that Tivo has been in, then it would be a good move. I feel like it won't though and in a few years we'll see another buy out/merger. The new merged company is likely to be more desirable to other companies than the current one.


----------



## mbernste (Apr 6, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> HD Radio. Now there's some cutting edge technology.


And soooooo successful!


----------



## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

mbernste said:


> And soooooo successful!


It would have been more successful if the FCC hadn't allowed half-assed (aka super low power) operation of HD stations. Where I live, for example, HD radio is great if it's working, but it's incredibly prone to dropouts and interference. The HD radio simulcasts have vastly superior quality to their AM equivalents but because my car loses signal every 10-15 seconds as it moves, and takes around 5 seconds to resync the signal each time, they're painful to listen to. It only works well if the car is stationary, and even then if the car moves 20 feet (such as might happen at a stoplight) the signal might drop (or if dropped, would reappear). It's flat around here too, and there are no tall buildings to cause problems.


----------



## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

shamilian said:


> _From Wikipedia:
> 
> Tessera was founded in 1990.
> 
> ...


Pretty much.


----------



## ClayKY (Aug 24, 2005)

TiVo, Xperi Tout Scale Benefits of Proposed All-Stock Combo | Light Reading


----------



## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

If this happened pre-Rovi, I'd have been worried. But given the issues, Rovi guide data quality, pre-roll ads as my 2 main examples, I don't "love" my Tivo's as much as I used to and therefore will roll with the punches.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

jcthorne said:


> Well one thing I noted, its the end of the line for Tivo as a company. There will no longer be a company called Tivo. Will just be a brand / marketing licence. Other than that, it seems like more of the same as what happened with Rovi. Just acquired the patents to make money licencing them.
> 
> So long Tivo. It's been a fun if aggravating ride these 20 years.


In reality, the real TiVo hasn't been its own company since Rovi's purchase of it 3+ years ago--it's "simply" been a division within RoVi (which used the TiVo name, for name-recognition bastardy purposes).


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I wouldn't doubt if Tivo is still spunoff. This doesn't mean it won't be. Xperi doesn't seem to have a product business. They license tech and own patents like ....Rovio.

btw I got xperi confused with xperia. Xperia is a Sony phone I think. And maybe to add to the confusion at least for me is 38% of Xperi's sales go to 1 customer - Samsung.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Seems much more attractive, for us consumers and TiVo box owners/service users, than the TiVo CEO David Shull intended alternative, splitting the old TiVo into 2 and selling them to the highest bidders. I always feared that that could become/would be used as a road to TiVo consumer electronics products bankruptcy/dissolution, and, with a bankrupt company, Lifetime holders having no recourse for their investments and contracts. With "the old TiVo" remaining whole and within a larger, successful company, there is greater chance and opportunity for extended life and, who knows, perhaps even thriving, with people who know how to manage/encourage that. Viewed from the outside, Shull clearly did not--he seemed a robber baron (at best). And the TiVo Lifetime contracts live on, as a legal matter. 

I'm also pleased to see Shull pushed to the side, as a "strategic advisor." From the outside, I've never trusted him as a successful, positive force apart from the squeezing out of money whatever the ramifications. And he hasn't seemed creative or successful at that. I expect that he will be gone, ultimately.

Does any of this help explain @TiVo_Ted's absence from these parts and elsewhere for an extended time?


----------



## stuart628 (Jul 5, 2006)

From the cordcuttersnews article they had someone quoted saying this

"will be combined with Xperi’s product capabilities in the home, automotive, and mobile device ecosystems. The platform will allow consumers to enjoy entertainment anywhere, anytime, on any device."

Do we think they will open tivo up to the apps that we have been dying for? I hope so...I am cautiously optimistic for this to work out, of course I said the same thing for the cleveland browns this season.


----------



## Sparky1234 (May 8, 2006)

Gee, I want more of TE4, TiVo Edge, pre-roll ad innovation.


----------



## Joe3 (Dec 12, 2006)

A good deal for shareholders, but at 1.2 billion for Rovi/TiVo seem a little high. 
Will have to see who is let go and who is brought in after the merger to determine if TiVo becomes user friendly once again.


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Mikeguy said:


> Does any of this help explain @TiVo_Ted's absence from these parts and elsewhere for an extended time?


The last time @TiVo_Ted was on the forum was about 2 hours ago.

He hasn't tweeted in about a month.


----------



## WorldBandRadio (Dec 20, 2010)

"...The deal values TiVo at a 21% premium to Wednesday's closing price. TiVo shareholders would own 54% of the combined company, which would be run by Xperi Chief Executive Officer Jon Kirchner, according to a statement on Thursday, confirming an earlier Bloomberg News report.

"Combining the companies could create at least $50 million in savings, according to the statement. The transaction also puts on hold TiVo's announced plan to spin off its intellectual property unit...."

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-19/tivo-is-said-to-near-all-stock-merger-agreement-with-xperi


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

JoeKustra said:


> The last time @TiVo_Ted was on the forum was about 2 hours ago.
> 
> He hasn't tweeted in about a month.


Or peeped up (as vs. lurked) here since the end of October.


----------



## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

After they spent all that time on corporate speak gibberish trying to make the split sound like a good idea .


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

WorldBandRadio said:


> "Combining the companies could create at least *$50 million in savings*, according to the statement."


Which is corporate speak for layoffs. Sounds like moral might get lower at the new company.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Companies always say this. Synergy, blah-blah-blah. Cost-savings, blah-blah-blah.

The proof is in the pudding.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Rovi is to Rovio as Xperi is to Xperia. What are the odds a company merges with 2 other companies whose names are more recognizable when a vowel is added to the end.


----------



## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

stuart628 said:


> Do we think they will open tivo up to the apps that we have been dying for? I hope so...I am cautiously optimistic for this to work out, of course I said the same thing for the cleveland browns this season.


No. Xperi's "platform" that allows entertainment to be enjoyed across mobile, home, auto and whatever else doesn't actually exist yet. Tivo's work with Android lays some of the groundwork for something along those lines, so maybe more of that will see the light of day, but mergers and integrations take a while and projects in flight during them are often disrupted or delayed.

The answer to the app situation--from apps on TiVo hardware to apps on other devices for playing things on TiVo hardware--remains what it's been for the past couple years. Not today, not soon, but maybe someday. On balance though, I think the prospects for TiVo's dismal situation improving are a teensy bit better today than they were yesterday.

Rovi didn't really give a damn, but Xperi is at least entertaining the idea of putting effort into the platform again.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

OrangeCrush said:


> No. Xperi's "platform" that allows entertainment to be enjoyed across mobile, home, auto and whatever else doesn't actually exist yet. Tivo's work with Android lays some of the groundwork for something along those lines, so maybe more of that will see the light of day, but mergers and integrations take a while and projects in flight during them are often disrupted or delayed.
> 
> The answer to the app situation--from apps on TiVo hardware to apps on other devices for playing things on TiVo hardware--remains what it's been for the past couple years. Not today, not soon, but maybe someday. On balance though, I think the prospects for TiVo's dismal situation improving are a teensy bit better today than they were yesterday.
> 
> Rovi didn't really give a damn, but Xperi is at least entertaining the idea of putting effort into the platform again.


I don't think anything has changed. And i would guess the Tivo product business still gets spun off. Xperi is the same type of company as Rovi. They license stuff. They don't make stuff. They make stuff to license. Not stuff to use.

The headwinds against the dvr particularly the cable dvr are strong. I don't see why any company would invest good money into the cable dvr market at this point.

As you saw, the merger announcement was all about licensing Tivo's patents and IP into other digital markets.


----------



## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Mikeguy said:


> Seems much more attractive, for us consumers and TiVo box owners/service users, than the TiVo CEO David Shull intended alternative, splitting the old TiVo into 2 and selling them to the highest bidders. I always feared that that could become/would be used as a road to TiVo consumer electronics products bankruptcy/dissolution, and, with a bankrupt company, Lifetime holders having no recourse for their investments and contracts. With "the old TiVo" remaining whole and within a larger, successful company, there is greater chance and opportunity for extended life and, who knows, perhaps even thriving, with people who know how to manage/encourage that. Viewed from the outside, Shull clearly did not--he seemed a robber baron (at best). And the TiVo Lifetime contracts live on, as a legal matter.
> 
> I'm also pleased to see Shull pushed to the side, as a "strategic advisor." From the outside, I've never trusted him as a successful, positive force apart from the squeezing out of money whatever the ramifications. And he hasn't seemed creative or successful at that. I expect that he will be gone, ultimately.
> 
> Does any of this help explain @TiVo_Ted's absence from these parts and elsewhere for an extended time?


100% agree. I think this is one of the best possible outcomes for Tivo customers. I'm thrilled the weatherman is being sidelined. A bit concerned that this company will not cater in any way to early adopters like many of the long-time Tivo fan base. But heck...if my Tivo's keep running without pre-roll ads and the other crap Shull tried to cram into Hydra, then I'm all in. Happy Holidays to Tivo Customers.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

In 2013, a former Chairman pleaded not to turn then-known-as-Tessera into a patent troll.

Don't Turn My Company Into A Patent Troll!


----------



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

Wonder who sucked them into doing this.... Feel sorry for Xperi. 

Wonder if Alcohol was involved in this deal....


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> In 2013, a former Chairman pleaded not to turn then-known-as-Tessera into a patent troll.
> 
> Don't Turn My Company Into A Patent Troll!


Tech's 8 Most Fearsome 'Patent Trolls'

This is from 2012. Look at #7.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

mbernste said:


> And soooooo successful!


Isn't HD Radio in pretty much every new car? Granted I don't see it that much outside of cars, although I have a standalone receiver.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

ClayKY said:


> TiVo, Xperi Tout Scale Benefits of Proposed All-Stock Combo | Light Reading


let's hope this chart is an indication of a net positive:


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> Isn't HD Radio in pretty much every new car? Granted I don't see it that much outside of cars, although I have a standalone receiver.


Is it? My '19 Bolt doesn't have it nor does my '13 Leaf SV w/premium. Both of them have the better stereo offered (Bose), as well. My Bolt is as fully loaded as they come short of stupid stuff like all-weather floor mats and black bowtie logos.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> let's hope this chart is an indication of a net positive:
> 
> View attachment 45228


Wouldn't Xperi love to convert a healthy chunk of those ~100M TVs into TiVo subscribers . . . .*

* Hint: TiVo+ and pre-roll ads ain't gonna do it.


----------



## Davelnlr_ (Jan 13, 2011)

wmcbrine said:


> Isn't HD Radio in pretty much every new car? Granted I don't see it that much outside of cars, although I have a standalone receiver.


You must be thinking of Sirius/XM
It is hard to even find a HD radio today.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

Davelnlr_ said:


> You must be thinking of Sirius/XM
> It is hard to even find a HD radio today.


I'm pretty sure every new car still comes with a radio and any new radio will support HD radio.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Krandor said:


> Can't be worse then the rovi merger.


than


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> The proof is in the pudding.


The proper quote is: The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

morac said:


> I'm pretty sure every new car still comes with a radio and any new radio will support HD radio.


Not any. It still has to be licensed (patents).



cwerdna said:


> Is it? My '19 Bolt doesn't have it nor does my '13 Leaf SV w/premium.


HDRadio.com shows it as a standard feature on the 2019 Leaf. There's a full list of models there -- extensive, but not, as I see now, every new car.


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

shamilian said:


> patent trolls ... ?


Do you believe in intellectual property protection?
Do you believe that those rights can be sold to others?

If so, congratulations, you believe in "patent trolls".

(I hate that term. Yes, I do wish companies would often make products using the technologies they own, but they have the right to own the property and protect its use.)


----------



## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

morac said:


> Which is corporate speak for layoffs. Sounds like moral might get lower at the new company.


I agree.

Synergy = Finding Redundancies then a Reduction in Force

There will be layoffs for sure. As such, nerves will be rattled for a good long while as every level in the acquired company tries to prove their worth whilst jockeying to remain part of the solution vs. part of the problem. The result being = moral goes to hell in a hand basket for many.

That said, I still think this is about as good of an outcome for Tivo customers as there could be.


----------



## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

mattack said:


> Do you believe in intellectual property protection?
> Do you believe that those rights can be sold to others?
> 
> If so, congratulations, you believe in "patent trolls".
> ...


A topic worthy of an entirely different thread. But I disagree with your rhetorical point. There is nothing wrong with inventors (individual or companies) having their intellectual property protected. However, you know full well there are companies that acquire patents solely to prosecute them and they are well deserved in being called "patent trolls."

Now I don't know Experi or if they are a "patent troll" in the classic way. They may well be a big company that hordes patents to create barriers of entry to competitors, create leverage in cross-licensing deals, and yes, charge royalties if they can or when their main business model is failing. We can only hope Experi finds a way to innovate and build on the Tivo IP portfolio to facilitate my first two reasons listed.


----------



## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Soon every company will be owned by a MEGA company called "Visionary Tomorrow's Technology Today". VTTT for short. Get use to the name, it's coming to a home near you.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mattack said:


> The proper quote is: The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.


That, perhaps, is one variant; what I stated is the perfectly proper, commonly used form. But thank you for your lesson.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

wmcbrine said:


> HDRadio.com shows it as a standard feature on the 2019 Leaf. There's a full list of models there -- extensive, but not, as I see now, every new car.


Thanks for the list. TIL. It's only standard on 2 Chevys and optional on 2 others. None of them are Chevy cars, of which I have one.

I had a rental '19 Altima, '18 Elantra and '18 Sentra in the past few months. For sure, neither Nissan had HD Radio. The Sentra had a barebones standard Nissan stereo (for cars w/o CarPlay, Android Auto and nav). The Altima had CarPlay and I think Android Auto support besides also including USB-C. I don't recall about the Elantra but it's not standard on that car.

Re: Xperi, add me as a +1 for having never heard of them until now.

For those who don't like the term "patent troll" (which I like just fine), the other one is NPE: Non-Practicing Entity.


jcthorne said:


> Well one thing I noted, its the end of the line for Tivo as a company. There will no longer be a company called Tivo. Will just be a brand / marketing licence. Other than that, it seems like more of the same as what happened with Rovi. Just acquired the patents to make money licencing them.
> 
> So long Tivo. It's been a fun if aggravating ride these 20 years.


We'll see. It will be a really sad day when the hardware (I have a Bolt+) we have becomes non-supported or, the overall experience (software, service, guide data and functionality) become so poor that it becomes virtually unusable.

It most definitely can happen if Xperi's only goal is to be a patent troll and just have a skeleton crew to keep the TiVo software and infrastructure on life support. The Rovi guide data already felt like it was in that state.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I was just telling people the other day, my smartphone, TV, and car definitely need more "targeted" Kardashian and Real Housewife ads. The synergy here is obvious and clearly a win-win. 

Like Rovi before it, this totally-not-a-patent-troll patent litigator firm won't care about the products and for all we know will split it off in another 2 years.


----------



## OrangeCrush (Feb 18, 2016)

trip1eX said:


> I don't think anything has changed. And i would guess the Tivo product business still gets spun off. Xperi is the same type of company as Rovi. They license stuff. They don't make stuff. They make stuff to license. Not stuff to use.
> 
> The headwinds against the dvr particularly the cable dvr are strong. I don't see why any company would invest good money into the cable dvr market at this point.
> 
> As you saw, the merger announcement was all about licensing Tivo's patents and IP into other digital markets.


Xperi at least has some actual products--DTS encoding and some semi-conductor stuff. They're not purely IP like Rovi was. That's no guarantee they're not going to get more trollish with the TiVo portfolio in house, but they're at least making noises about wanting to produce some kind of entertainment platform. Traditional Cable DVRs are a dead end and OTA DVRs are a niche market, but the platform space is very active. They could do something interesting with their Android platform. I really don't see how they remain in business post-QAM unless they go in a more Apple TV / Fire Stick / Roku direction. Arris is already making a box along those lines for them and there have been rumors of some kind of TiVo-stick in the works for months. Something like a TiVo version of a Nvidia shield could make me take a look and maybe even get back into the ecosystem.



mattack said:


> Do you believe in intellectual property protection?
> Do you believe that those rights can be sold to others?
> 
> If so, congratulations, you believe in "patent trolls".
> ...


I don't want to drag the thread offtopic, but I think there's a big difference between companies that are IP-only and license their work for others to manufacture and incorporate in their own products (ex. ARM) vs. those that don't produce anything at all--designs, specs, or otherwise--and just sue other people who have independently implemented an idea they own a vaguely worded piece of paper about.

Rovi comes off to me as more of a true patent troll than Xperi does. Rovi had (crappy) guide data and copy protection software. Xperi competes with Dolby. There's no guarantee (or much indication) TiVo will suddenly get innovative and relevant again with some blockbuster product borne of this merger, but at worst they're in the same position they've been for the past few years but at least somebody's going to pump some more money in to keep the lights on a while longer. More optimistically, Xperi seems a bit more competent and successful than Rovi so maybe they'll manage TiVo in some direction other than a slow downward spiral.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> Is it? My '19 Bolt doesn't have it nor does my '13 Leaf SV w/premium. Both of them have the better stereo offered (Bose), as well. My Bolt is as fully loaded as they come short of stupid stuff like all-weather floor mats and black bowtie logos.


Odd. My vette has HD radio as does my wife's Explorer. Its also in the Pioneer radio in my Excursion. I do not use it much in any of them but they all came with it.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

When this comes through, perhaps DTS can come to Tivo products, the licence fees would be easy to negotiate.....


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jcthorne said:


> Odd. My vette has HD radio as does my wife's Explorer. Its also in the Pioneer radio in my Excursion. I do not use it much in any of them but they all came with it.


Just checking BB and they have several. I thought they were dead. I have no HD stations but quite a few with RDS (I can see the song name and station's call letters).


----------



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

cwerdna said:


> Is it? My '19 Bolt doesn't have it nor does my '13 Leaf SV w/premium. Both of them have the better stereo offered (Bose), as well. My Bolt is as fully loaded as they come short of stupid stuff like all-weather floor mats and black bowtie logos.


GM removed HD radio from many cars due to issue with Bose (POS) stereos. A few have had HD added back. Works like crap in my new Corvette.

Just do a Google search and see the issue......


----------



## lucidrenegade (Aug 21, 2013)

Does Tivo even have any valid patents anymore? They were getting invalidated left and right not too long ago.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

OrangeCrush said:


> Xperi at least has some actual products--DTS encoding and some semi-conductor stuff. They're not purely IP like Rovi was. That's no guarantee they're not going to get more trollish with the TiVo portfolio in house, but they're at least making noises about wanting to produce some kind of entertainment platform. Traditional Cable DVRs are a dead end and OTA DVRs are a niche market, but the platform space is very active. They could do something interesting with their Android platform. I really don't see how they remain in business post-QAM unless they go in a more Apple TV / Fire Stick / Roku direction. Arris is already making a box along those lines for them and there have been rumors of some kind of TiVo-stick in the works for months. Something like a TiVo version of a Nvidia shield could make me take a look and maybe even get back into the ecosystem.


They haven't ever produced a product from the looks of it. I think they will just license stuff and sue companies for violating patents.

Wikipedia says they acquired DTS in 2016. Invensas (semi-conductor) in 2015. And DTS acquired HD Radio tech in 2015.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NorthAlabama said:


> let's hope this chart is an indication of a net positive:
> 
> View attachment 45228


What's the positive? Do you think they make anything for these 100M annual tvs, 400m radio listeners and 200m smart phones?

No they merely own patents to tech that is used in them.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

lucidrenegade said:


> Does Tivo even have any valid patents anymore?


Yes.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

mattack said:


> The proper quote is: The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.





Mikeguy said:


> That, perhaps, is one variant; what I stated is the perfectly proper, commonly used form. But thank you for your lesson.


This is one of my (very minor) pet peeves. Mattack is correct, Mike, in that the original maxim ("The proof of the pudding is in the eating") implies that the quality of a pudding (in the original English sense of a type of sausage) can not be judged solely by appearances but rather by tasting it. "The proof is in the pudding" is a more recent bastardization of the saying and misses the point entirely.

Similarly misquoted (and another of my pet peeves) is Thomas Gray's "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" from his poem _Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College_. People who say that "ignorance is bliss" are distorting the message into a very different premise.

And there's no need to thank ME, but you can thank Wikipedia by sending a donation to their foundation.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

chiguy50 said:


> This is one of my (very minor) pet peeves. Mattack is correct, Mike, in that the original maxim ("The proof of the pudding is in the eating") implies that the quality of a pudding (in the original English sense of a type of sausage) can not be judged solely by appearances but rather by tasting it. "The proof is in the pudding" is a more recent bastardization of the saying and misses the point entirely.
> 
> Similarly misquoted (and another of my pet peeves) is Thomas Gray's "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise" from his poem _Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College_. People who say that "ignorance is bliss" are distorting the message into a very different premise.
> 
> And there's no need to thank ME, but you can thank Wikipedia by sending a donation to their foundation.


Sorry, I don't see it as a bastardization but, in essence, as a contraction of the original that, in fact, directly gets to the point: the taste of the pudding is the answer. And so no Wikipedia donation on this one.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, I don't see it as a bastardization but, in essence, as a contraction of the original that directly gets to the point: the taste of the pudding is the answer.


Well then, I guess you can't judge a book.

(N.B.: From one of the Wikipedia links in my previous post: "The shorter form _the proof is in the pudding_, which is found in an 1867 issue of the British _Farmer's Magazine_,[6] and came into common use in the United States in the 1950s, is becoming increasingly common, despite missing the point of the original meaning.")


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

chiguy50 said:


> Well then, I guess you can't judge a book.


But the book is in its contents.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Yeah to me both are contractions. Ignorance is bliss ...the implication is the person won't listen to reason...thus why bother _being wise._

And proof is in the pudding. ...the implication is you have to eat it or taste it to know if it's any good.

I think both still retain the meaning. They are just contracted.

I guess if you read "proof is in the pudding" literally then perhaps I see how it wouldn't retain its meaning. But we all know it's a metaphor or expression or whatever you call it.


----------



## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

my vote for best catering name in atlanta is "proof of the pudding" - i'll never forget them.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

trip1eX said:


> Yeah to me both are contractions. Ignorance is bliss ...the implication is the person won't listen to reason.
> 
> And proof is in the pudding. ...the implication is you have to eat it to know if it's any good.
> 
> I think both still retain the meaning. They are just contracted.


No, the original meaning is lost in both misquotes.

In the first case, the implication is that ignorance brings happiness. Gray's point was rather that it would serve no purpose other than to spoil the blithe joy of youth if the boys whom he observed at play were to have foreknowledge of the sorrows that life held in store for them. IOW, in this particular instance the knowledge in question would serve no good purpose.

In the second case, what proof is to be found "in the pudding"? When I see or hear this bastardization I think of a Three Kings Cake containing a hidden prize. One loses the lesson that it is only by tasting of the pudding that one can judge its worth.

Full Disclosure: I am a linguist and these quibbles are thus probably more irksome to me than to most people.


----------



## Phil T (Oct 29, 2003)

My Nissan has a HD radio and I enjoy it when listening to full power FM stations. Recently they have added so many low power translator stations, many of them HD, that don't cover a large area. These stations are unreliable and HD drops out most of the time. There is one HD AM station (KLVZ) I like to listen to but it is low power also and drops out a lot. It is nice to listen to music on a AM station when it sounds like FM. I wish there were more on AM but the technology is wasted on news/talk and low power stations.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

chiguy50 said:


> No, the original meaning is lost in both misquotes.
> 
> In the first case, the implication is that ignorance brings happiness. Gray's point was rather that it would serve no purpose other than to spoil the blithe joy of youth if the boys whom he observed at play were to have foreknowledge of the sorrows that life held in store for them. IOW, in this particular instance the knowledge in question would serve no good purpose.
> 
> ...


 IT might be the literal reading of it. But when I see it or hear it it is sarcasm usually if directed at self. Or an insult of sorts as in must be nice to not listen to reason if it is directed at someone else.

But the longer version of ignore is bliss probably wouldn't have led me to the longer point you give now.  I'd have to read what just wrote about the boys at play. 

I don't see how proof is in the pudding has lost its meaning at all. ...unless you read it literally with no knowledge that it's a commonly used expression.

btw, as a linguist shouldn't this all be considered normal to some degree? LIke gay doesn't mean happy any more at least not how people use it.


----------



## chiguy50 (Nov 9, 2009)

trip1eX said:


> As a linguist shouldn't this all be considered normal? LIke gay doesn't mean happy any more at least not how people use it.


Firstly, there is a difference between the evolution of words (whether in meaning, usage, orthography, or pronunciation) and the misuse or misinterpretation of a maxim or quote. Just because a bastardization or corruption is in common parlance does not necessarily mean that it is properly understood or retains its original meaning.

And secondly, as a linguist, I should point out that your first sentence above is ungrammatical. As written, the phrase "as a linguist" references the subject pronoun "this"; what you meant to write is "As a linguist, shouldn't you consider all this normal?"

Of course, this is just another quibble and your meaning was clear. But it was nonetheless improper grammar.


----------



## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Like Rovi before it, this totally-not-a-patent-troll patent litigator firm won't care about the products and for all we know will split it off in another 2 years.


Per this article at Light Reading:

_Prior to today's deal, TiVo had set a deadline to split itself into two separately operated companies by April 2020. That general idea remains intact, as Xperi and TiVo plan eventually to separate those businesses further down the road, when the technologies and products of both TiVo and Xperi have been integrated.

"The industrial logic behind separating the businesses still holds," Dave Shull, TiVo's CEO, said Thursday...
_​So my take is that the the main point of synergy here is a larger patent/IP-focused business that will be named Xperi. And at some point they'll spin off a combined products business (to be named TiVo?). Although looking at Xperi's website, it doesn't look like they actually sell any consumer products but rather license their technology/features for incorporation into other companies' products. But then, when you think about it, that's the direction TiVo has been headed anyway, now that they're somewhat disengaged from hardware and use Arris (which recently merged with CommScope) as their hardware production partner.

IDK, nothing would really surprise me at this point in terms of TiVo-branded consumer products on the market come 2021, after this merger has been implemented. Maybe they'll have 2 different model streaming devices, a headless ATSC 3.0 DVR, plus the TiVo Edge for Cable still on the market. Or maybe they'll have completely exited the retail consumer market. Who knows.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

chiguy50 said:


> Firstly, there is a difference between the evolution of words (whether in meaning, usage, orthography, or pronunciation) and the misuse or misinterpretation of a maxim or quote. Just because a bastardization or corruption is in common parlance does not necessarily mean that it is properly understood or retains its original meaning.
> 
> And secondly, as a linguist, I should point out that your first sentence above is ungrammatical. As written, the phrase "as a linguist" references the subject pronoun "this"; what you meant to write is "As a linguist, shouldn't you consider all this normal?"
> 
> Of course, this is just another quibble and your meaning was clear. But it was nonetheless improper grammar.


all my stuff is ungrammatical. you don't have to tell me.

I'm just doing my part to morph the language into what it will be 50 years from now.

I think my example of "gay doesn't really mean happy any more" shows that I realize things don't retain their original meaning. 

But I don't see how proof of pudding has changed meaning at all. ...unless you mean in a literal sense only.

The ignorance is bliss expression I can see how it changed meaning somewhat I guess after you gave me further back story. But I don't think it is used literally like you seem to be implying. I think there is still some inference there (maybe depending on context) that reasoning is futile when ignorance is bliss. And i think it is also often used sarcastically.


----------



## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

DANGER DANGER thread going way off topic. Don't make me site passages from the Bible and how there relevant in todays society.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Per this article at Light Reading:
> 
> _Prior to today's deal, TiVo had set a deadline to split itself into two separately operated companies by April 2020. That general idea remains intact, as Xperi and TiVo plan eventually to separate those businesses further down the road, when the technologies and products of both TiVo and Xperi have been integrated.
> 
> ...


Well Tivo has gotten away from making the hardware (forget if they do any of the design at all, ) but they still support it right? And still sell it and they stlll make the software and support and sell that. So a dump of the products business would be a dump of all of that.

Xperi would just own the patents behind everything (that is patented) so they can collect license fees from Tivo and others.

LIke you read, Xperi doesn't sell any products. I don't see why that wouldn't continue.


----------



## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

ufo4sale said:


> DANGER DANGER thread going way off topic. Don't make me site passages from the Bible and how there relevant in todays society.


Wouldn't the Ferungi 'Rules of Acquisition' be more relevant


----------



## johnfasc (Dec 24, 2014)

And to think when i first got my tivo, all I wanted was a DVR to tape shows intelligently.....


----------



## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

johnfasc said:


> And to think when i first got my tivo, all I wanted was a DVR to tape shows intelligently.....


 All I wanted with my first one was something more reliable and longer lived than a VCR


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

tenthplanet said:


> All I wanted with my first one was something more reliable and longer lived than a VCR


I needed a 25 hour VCR tape because I was going on vacation for a few weeks.

These days I wouldn't have bothered as you can now catch up on shows online or on demand.


----------



## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

johnfasc said:


> And to think when i first got my tivo, all I wanted was a DVR to *tape* shows intelligently.....


And considering the fact that a TiVo doesn't use (video) *tape* at all, it appears you didn't get want you wanted in that product either.


----------



## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

tenthplanet said:


> Wouldn't the Ferungi 'Rules of Acquisition' be more relevant


Since MR Brain is a dying FAD just like TiVo. What I think is irrelevant. it's what the "people think" that matters most.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Per this article at Light Reading:
> 
> _Prior to today's deal, TiVo had set a deadline to split itself into two separately operated companies by April 2020. That general idea remains intact, as Xperi and TiVo plan eventually to separate those businesses further down the road, when the technologies and products of both TiVo and Xperi have been integrated.
> 
> ...


I don't hold much faith in much of anything that Mr. Shull states. He's already demonstrated his eminent abilities at TiVo, for which he is being rewarded, at present, with the role of "strategic advisor."


----------



## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

Mikeguy said:


> That, perhaps, is one variant; what I stated is the perfectly proper, commonly used form. But thank you for your lesson.


Many people use they're, their, and there incorrectly. It doesn't mean they're using them correctly.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mattack said:


> Many people use they're, their, and there incorrectly. It doesn't mean they're using them correctly.


Nor does it establish that your "take" on the above expression is correct and that the shortened form is wrong. Indeed, and as distinct from their/there/they're, it makes total sense.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Will Rovi squeeze Xperi by raising the price of the guide data? If they have to change guide data providers will they drop older models and TE3?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

shwru980r said:


> Will Rovi squeeze Xperi by raising the price of the guide data? If they have to change guide data providers will they drop older models and TE3?


??? Why would one part of the new Xperi squeeze another part by raising prices? Why would Xperi want to get its Guide Data from anybody but Xperi?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Why would Xperi want to get its Guide Data from anybody but Xperi?


To get good data?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I understand that, to celebrate the acquisition, Xperi is giving all TiVo box owners who have Lifetime service a free year.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> ??? Why would one part of the new Xperi squeeze another part by raising prices? Why would Xperi want to get its Guide Data from anybody but Xperi?


I thought Rovi owned Tivo, but I see now that Rovi adopted the Tivo name so it's all one company.


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

Mikeguy said:


> I understand that, to celebrate the acquisition, Xperi is giving all TiVo box owners who have Lifetime service a free year.


Really? Where is this mentioned?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> Thanks for the list. TIL. It's only standard on 2 Chevys and optional on 2 others. None of them are Chevy cars, of which I have one.
> 
> I had a rental '19 Altima, '18 Elantra and '18 Sentra in the past few months. For sure, neither Nissan had HD Radio. The Sentra had a barebones standard Nissan stereo (for cars w/o CarPlay, Android Auto and nav). The Altima had CarPlay and I think Android Auto support besides also including USB-C. I don't recall about the Elantra but it's not standard on that car.
> 
> ...


HD Radio was standard on most of the 2018 ELantras. Not sure about the Base model though. But the other models have HD radio. My 2018 Value Edition is one of them. Not that I really listen to terrestrial radio though. Since they still have commercials. Which I avoid with Satellite Radio, and streaming from Pandora, XMSirius, Plex, and Amazon.

I can't even remember the last time I was in a newer model car that did not have an HD radio.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

mrsean said:


> Really? Where is this mentioned?


Think about it...

(Hint: How much do you pay each year for your lifetime service?)


----------



## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> I understand that, to celebrate the acquisition, Xperi is giving all TiVo box owners who have Lifetime service a free year.





mrsean said:


> Really? Where is this mentioned?





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Think about it...
> 
> (Hint: How much do you pay each year for your lifetime service?)


It could've been for a secondary box?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mrsean said:


> Really? Where is this mentioned?





BillyClyde said:


> It could've been for a secondary box?


Sorry, my attempt at Rovi/Experi humor. See @Rob Helmerichs' parsing above.


----------



## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> Sorry, my attempt at Rovi/Experi humor. See @Rob Helmerichs' parsing above.


I understood that, hence the wink emoji.


----------



## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

My Christmas wish is for TiVo/Rovi/Xperi/whatever the hell name they are this week is to either go with someone not a complete moron for guide data, or put a lot of time and money into fixing theirs. 

A nice start would be describing a movie by just describing the movie itself, not your feelings about it.


----------



## spiderpumpkin (Dec 1, 2017)

Xperiovi


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Xperivo?


----------



## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

stile99 said:


> My Christmas wish is for TiVo/Rovi/Xperi/whatever the hell name they are this week is to either go with someone not a complete moron for guide data, or put a lot of time and money into fixing theirs.


They would never pay someone else for guide data when they have their own that they can use for free. And they won't put a lot of time and money into fixing theirs because that would take a lot of time and money.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> They would never pay someone else for guide data when they have their own that they can use for free. *And they won't put a lot of time and money into fixing theirs because that would take a lot of time and money.*


I wonder--would it really? A lot? They typically, ultimately, fix the guide issues eventually--it's just a matter of time-shifting. I just wonder if getting a_ quality_ product out there would add all that much.


----------



## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

They ultimately fix guide issues? Maybe for lineups, but sure as hell not for data quality compared to Gracenote. Still tons of messed up shows/times almost every week, and plenty of 'no description available' where they just don't care.

In my area NFL Sunday game times are wrong almost every week, frex. No big deal, just some of the most popular games in the country that you'd think they might care to get right. And they don't, week after week.


----------



## JonAult (Jan 19, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> I can't even remember the last time I was in a newer model car that did not have an HD radio.


Some manufacturers reserve HD radio for the most expensive trims. My 2016 Honda Odyssey SE, for example, does not have HD radio, but some of the more expensive Odysseys do.

I've never had a factory radio with HD. The only vehicle I've ever had HD radio in is my 2003 Chevy van with an aftermarket radio.


----------



## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

JonAult said:


> Some manufacturers reserve HD radio for the most expensive trims. My 2016 Honda Odyssey SE, for example, does not have HD radio, but some of the more expensive Odysseys do.
> 
> I've never had a factory radio with HD. The only vehicle I've ever had HD radio in is my 2003 Chevy van with an aftermarket radio.


My 2017 F150 has Sirius, but no HD radio.


----------



## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

Narkul said:


> My 2017 F150 has Sirius, but no HD radio.


Strange as my wifes 2015 Explorer Sport has it and Sirius too. Must vary with different trim levels.


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Narkul said:


> My 2017 F150 has Sirius, but no HD radio.





jcthorne said:


> Strange as my wifes 2015 Explorer Sport has it and Sirius too. Must vary with different trim levels.


Agree that's strange. The F-150 is listed as having it. My 2015 Edge has HD Radio (and Sirius). Narkul- Have you looked for it? It's not as obvious as say, Sirius, is.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

SullyND said:


> Have you looked for it? It's not as obvious as say, Sirius, is.


That's right, HD Radio was the default in our last Prius and I actually had to go hunting a menu or two deep for the button to turn it off. Otherwise whenever a digital signal was available it would tune that in instead of the analog transmission. "HD", which definitely isn't high def, sounded thin and was constantly dropping out, even at its best changing the sound levels unexpectedly.


----------



## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> That's right, HD Radio was the default in our last Prius and I actually had to go hunting a menu or two deep for the button to turn it off. Otherwise whenever a digital signal was available it would tune that in instead of the analog transmission. "HD", which definitely isn't high def, sounded thin and was constantly dropping out, even at its best changing the sound levels unexpectedly.


The name has always been very misleading. HD Radio is really a nifty method of compressing digital signals and sending them over existing analog carrier signals. There are three ways of doing this - here's a very good read How HD Radio Works

The gist of it is that digital HD Radio is not High-Definition quality at all since they compress the music using a lossy compression algorithm to allow it to piggy back on the analog carrier. The result is something barely better than satellite radio - which is appallingly tinny due to Sirius XM's belief that more (useless) channels are better than fewer higher quality channels (much the same way cable and sat TV do). But I digress...


----------



## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> "HD", which definitely isn't high def, sounded thin and was constantly dropping out, even at its best changing the sound levels unexpectedly.


It does drop out*, and it's not high-def, but (when it comes in) it's still distinctly better than analog, IME.

* Although how cool is it that a station can pop between analog and digital without missing a beat? (Not guaranteed -- I've heard stations that were out of sync -- but most seem to be in.) Not as cool as never dropping out would be, but still.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

exdishguy said:


> The gist of it is that digital HD Radio is not High-Definition quality at all since they compress the music using a lossy compression algorithm to allow it to piggy back on the analog carrier. The result is something barely better than satellite radio - which is appallingly tinny due to Sirius XM's belief that more (useless) channels are better than fewer higher quality channels (much the same way cable and sat TV do). But I digress...


I can tell you that HD radio sounds noticeably better for AM stations. It's like night and day. It's not as noticeable on FM stations, but it is still better.

A problem that can happen with HD radio is if the analog and digital signals aren't quite in sync. This only causes a problem if you are on the fringe of where the digital signals work. For a properly calibrated station it's barely noticeable on my Honda Accord when the station switches back and forth between analog and digital. If they aren't aligned then you get either replays and skips as the signal switches back and forth. There was a station I listened to that had that problem, but they eventually fixed it.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

morac said:


> I can tell you that HD radio sounds noticeably better for AM stations. It's like night and day. It's not as noticeable on FM stations, but it is still better.
> 
> A problem that can happen with HD radio is if the analog and digital signals aren't quite in sync. This only causes a problem if you are on the fringe of where the digital signals work. For a properly calibrated station it's barely noticeable on my Honda Accord when the station switches back and forth between analog and digital. If they aren't aligned then you get either replays and skips as the signal switches back and forth. There was a station I listened to that had that problem, but they eventually fixed it.


The change in volume level and tonal range when a music station switches between HD and FM is very noticeable to me. Drives me crazy. I should be well within the market for good signal strength, and at least the timing is in sync, but the change is very jarring and the first few times it happened we thought our radio was broken. And FM sounds much better to me, so for both reasons I turned HD off.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

exdishguy said:


> the result is something barely better than satellite radio - which is appallingly tinny


Agreed, "HD Radio" is a marketing scam. Too bad, as it could have had potential.


----------



## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Will they add HD radio to a Tivo?


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> HD Radio was standard on most of the 2018 ELantras. Not sure about the Base model though. But the other models have HD radio. My 2018 Value Edition is one of them. Not that I really listen to terrestrial radio though. Since they still have commercials. Which I avoid with Satellite Radio, and streaming from Pandora, XMSirius, Plex, and Amazon.
> 
> I can't even remember the last time I was in a newer model car that did not have an HD radio.


My new 2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is fully loaded but no HD radio.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Yeah, my 2017 Honda CR-V Touring (the top trim level) has Sirius/XM, but no HD.


----------



## Narkul (Nov 7, 2004)

SullyND said:


> Agree that's strange. The F-150 is listed as having it. My 2015 Edge has HD Radio (and Sirius). Narkul- Have you looked for it? It's not as obvious as say, Sirius, is.


Nothing on the system itself indicates that it's available. Nothing in the radio menu to enable or disable it.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> My new 2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is fully loaded but no HD radio.


My 2018 Wrangler JL Rubicon has HD radio.
It only displays when it's tuned to a station that is broadcasting it, if picked as a favorite, it shows a little HD above the preset button.

There are only 3 stations in my area that seem to utilize it though.

When I'm tuned to one of them, the display shows there is a channel 1 and channel 2, selectable with the right knob.

I don't know if all the Uconnect versions offer HD radio though, or maybe your market has no HD stations?


----------



## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

phox_mulder said:


> My 2018 Wrangler JL Rubicon has HD radio.
> It only displays when it's tuned to a station that is broadcasting it, if picked as a favorite, it shows a little HD above the preset button.
> 
> There are only 3 stations in my area that seem to utilize it though.
> ...


I think the Rubicon's have the higher end Uconnect system with a larger screen size and that has HD built into it. The smaller screen Uconnect I have doesn't have it built in as there are a couple of HD stations in the Philly area but I only get the standard signal.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

If it means anything as a trendsetter, recent Teslas do not include AM radio. Only FM/HD, SiriusXM, and internet radio. Reports vary but some say the HD radio is just as low-quality as it is in other cars. I stopped trying to listen to it three cars ago.

HD may be an improvement over AM, but to me it is horrible compared to FM, especially for music. The sad thing is, it doesn't have to be but the stations got greedy. From the beginning, in Teslas as in other cars, that makes the automatic switching between the main FM and HD signals very noticeable and annoying.

Whenever I can find the HD button in any car's radio, I press to disable it.

Edit: oops, I found reviews of Tesla HD Radio​


----------



## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

HD radio requires licensing a proprietary codec - which is based on AAC but not quite. Many radio manufacturers have simply decided to drop what was basically a niche item that only works in small areas in North America. At least with DAB it's standard in many countries so if you make a DAB radio, it's a larger market.

HD radio was present in many radios in 2015 or so, but after that its presence has dropped significantly due to licensing costs. At least with Sirius the right partnership ensures that the extra hardware pretty much comes for free since it's in Sirius' interest to increase potential subscriber base.

HD radio is typically 96kbps - 32kbps will get you better than AM radio quality for talk and music (remember, AM radio is limited to around 3kHz so is no better than a phone line). But unless you dedicate all 96kbps to an FM station, the lack of bits will rapidly degrade quality, and most stations started using the extra bits as extra stations to sell extra advertising, degrading quality. It's the same as with cable - the most channels they stuff into digital channels, they worse the quality.


----------



## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

shwru980r said:


> Will they add HD radio to a Tivo?


Only if they can find a way to pre-roll over-compressed, ****** ads.


----------



## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> They would never pay someone else for guide data when they have their own that they can use for free. And they won't put a lot of time and money into fixing theirs because that would take a lot of time and money.


I can dream. I honestly don't even think it would take much money to correct/provide accurate guide data. They may work for bananas, but the upkeep of 1000 monkeys poking at keyboards is you have to clean up what happen after the bananas. Spend fie bucks to do it right the first time, or spend a dollar doing it wrong and ten fixing it...basically anybody but an exec could tell them the better option.


----------



## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

shwru980r said:


> Will they add HD radio to a Tivo?


Based on the direction this thread has taken...yes?


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> My new 2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited is fully loaded but no HD radio.


Wow!! I have a co-worker that got a 2019 Jeep Cherokee last year and it has an HD radio. It has an 8.4 inch screen with Uconnect.(But no Android auto)

Although he had no clue that there was an HD radio in the vehicle until I told him what to look for. He was pleased once he looked since there are alot of sub-channel choices with HD radio here in the DC area. And he found a bunch of stuff to listen too.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> If it means anything as a trendsetter, recent Teslas do not include AM radio. Only FM/HD, SiriusXM, and internet radio. Reports vary but some say the HD radio is just as low-quality as it is in other cars. I stopped trying to listen to it three cars ago.
> 
> HD may be an improvement over AM, but to me it is horrible compared to FM, especially for music. The sad thing is, it doesn't have to be but the stations got greedy. From the beginning, in Teslas as in other cars, that makes the automatic switching between the main FM and HD signals very noticeable and annoying.
> 
> ...


IN the DC area there is a big difference between the HD radio version of a station and the analog version. There is a big difference in the audio quality between the two. Of course analog FM truncates everything above 15Khz. Which might be part of it.


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> IN the DC area there is a big difference between the HD radio version of a station and the analog version. There is a big difference in the audio quality between the two.


Same down here in the Norfolk area of VA. I gave my other half a new car radio for Christmas (for CarPlay) but made sure it had HD also because of how much better the FM stations around here sound with it.


----------



## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> IN the DC area there is a big difference between the HD radio version of a station and the analog version. There is a big difference in the audio quality between the two. Of course analog FM truncates everything above 15Khz. Which might be part of it.





aristoBrat said:


> Same down here in the Norfolk area of VA. I gave my other half a new car radio for Christmas (for CarPlay) but made sure it had HD also because of how much better the FM stations around here sound with it.


Assuming it's not just that our ears are different (and let's not get all audiophile about it), I'm guessing that the difference in our reports is because the stations in my area are all narrow-band and low-data to allow multiple signals with multiple advertising revenue streams. As a result, their sound quality is worse than the same program on FM.

Anyway, back on topic (kinda sorta), this cannot be blamed on whatever part Xperi's patented tech plays in HD Radio. It's due to choices made by the radio stations themselves.


----------



## exdishguy (May 1, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> IN the DC area there is a big difference between the HD radio version of a station and the analog version. There is a big difference in the audio quality between the two. Of course analog FM truncates everything above 15Khz. Which might be part of it.


Same here in NY. HD Radio may not be 24-bit/96KHz (or even 16/48) content but it can still sound clearer than analog signals and thusly more enjoyable.


----------



## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

My Prius Prime (plug-in hybrid), uses HD radio for traffic information on the navigation screen. I have no idea what HD radio sounds like, since I normally don't listen to AM or FM stations. They used to use Sirius/XM data service (distinct from the radio channels), but there is a subscription fee you have to pay to get that. HD radio is free (to the user, anyway).


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

When I had a Nissan, they got their traffic data from Sirius/XM, and it was amazing (always accurate and up-to-the-minute). Now my Honda has its own data, and it's pretty much useless. Plus the nav system and the traffic data system apparently don't talk to each other, because even when a road shows up as closed on the map, the nav keeps trying to steer me onto it.


----------



## dishrich (Jan 16, 2002)

> Tossing a possible monkey wrench into its proposed merger with TiVo, Xperi Corp. announced Sunday it had received an unsolicited, non-binding proposal from Metis Ventures to acquire the outstanding equity of Xperi for $23.30 per share in cash, or about $1.16 billion.


Xperi stands by TiVo merger in wake of unsolicited bid by Metis Ventures | Light Reading


----------



## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

Does any know if the separation is still on or does the merger negate it?


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

mrsean said:


> Does any know if the separation is still on or does the merger negate it?


The merger/acquisition is for the whole. Although who knows what could happen next.

TiVo--it's a roller-coaster.


----------



## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> The merger/acquisition is for the whole. Although who knows what could happen next.
> 
> TiVo--it's a roller-coaster.


Has been from the beginning.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

mrsean said:


> Does any know if the separation is still on or does the merger negate it?


" We believe combining TiVo and Xperi and subsequently separating the IP and product businesses will create significant strategic and financial value for our shareholders."


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> " We believe combining TiVo and Xperi and subsequently separating the IP and product businesses will create significant strategic and financial value for our shareholders."


Might I ask, who said that? Was it TiVo's current CEO Dave Shull, who is being given the honorific title of "special advisor" or some such with the acquisition, and who has done ever so much to advance TiVo in its tradition of valued innovation since its inception?


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> Might I ask, who said that? Was it TiVo's current CEO Dave Shull, who is being given the honorific title of "special advisor" or some such with the acquisition, and who has done ever so much to advance TiVo in its tradition of valued innovation since its inception?


The other 'longtime big fan of Tivo' CEO - the Xperia CEO.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

trip1eX said:


> The other 'longtime big fan of Tivo' CEO - the Xperia CEO.


That's sad to hear. I had hope for pride in excellence,* rather than quick $ whatever the ultimate cost. Sigh.  Robber barons.**

* It seems to work for Apple.

** In my expanded definition of that term.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Xperi is publicly traded. I wonder if any power and influence can be gained by the purchase of single shares of the company and then using shareholder rights.


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> Xperi is publicly traded. I wonder if any power and influence can be gained by the purchase of single shares of the company and then using shareholder rights.


wait....

here's more from the Xperi CEO:

_"Since the merger announcement, we have made significant progress toward closing the transaction. We've received HSR clearance, one of the key conditions to closing. We kicked off our integration planning efforts with a focus on combining our respective product and IP businesses, while keeping them internally separate. This will help facilitate their separation into two independent public companies with greater scale, each with a different and attractive investment profile."_

So I guess they will combine and separate back into 2 public companies - one a product company and one an IP company.

Xperi Corporation (XPER) Q4 2019 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool


----------



## ElT60 (May 27, 2020)

trip1eX said:


> wait....
> 
> here's more from the Xperi CEO:
> 
> ...


 Not much of that combine and separate at the closer....

" ..The platform will combine Xperi Corporation's leading product offerings in the home, auto and mobile device ecosystems with TiVo Corporation's best-in-class content aggregation, discovery and recommendation engines - creating unique opportunities for content providers, consumer electronics manufacturers and automotive makers. ..."
Xperi and TiVo Complete Merger

They aren't going to submerge the Tivo brand but this being a somewhat short "pause" until the hardware is spun out as largely seperate business ( or sold off ). It is a holding company so may not see all the top end layers completely folded into one ( still indpendently solving issues in different areas but there is more talk of synergy here in a market where many mergers and acquisitions are probably going on hold. in a more foggy revenue outlook . This was already well in flight... hand to land this. bring it to a close. )

P..S. I don't think the press release is down at the details of the Tivo DVR aspect of the business , but the general tone is more IP revenue stream and licensing to others to do volume implementations.


----------



## jaselzer (Sep 10, 2018)

I own some shares of Tivo and on first blush this seems like a welcome direction. I have my doubts about the value of the hardware business from the perspective of stock market valuation and I was worried that combining the ip business with the hardware business(or perhaps it would be better to call it a software business now since they are subjugating the physical DVR) would reduce the overall valuation as a mutiple of earnings. By owning shares in each separate corporation, I am hoping the market will value the companies as pure plays rather than some oddball combination.


----------



## ElT60 (May 27, 2020)

jaselzer said:


> ... By owning shares in each separate corporation, I am hoping the market will value the companies as pure plays rather than some oddball combination.


 Separate corporation? Tivo as a listing is done.

TiVo Corporation (TIVO) Stock Price, Quote, History & News - Yahoo Finance

That is what acquisition close and merger complete is.


----------



## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

ElT60 said:


> Not much of that combine and separate at the closer....
> 
> " ..The platform will combine Xperi Corporation's leading product offerings in the home, auto and mobile device ecosystems with TiVo Corporation's best-in-class content aggregation, discovery and recommendation engines - creating unique opportunities for content providers, consumer electronics manufacturers and automotive makers. ..."
> Xperi and TiVo Complete Merger
> ...


If Tivo is contracting out the hardware to companies like Arris, Then what is there to spin off? The hardware design?


----------



## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

mschnebly said:


> If Tivo is contracting out the hardware to companies like Arris, Then what is there to spin off? The hardware design?


They don't design the hardware either these days. But they do sell products to customers and MSOs.


----------



## ElT60 (May 27, 2020)

mschnebly said:


> If Tivo is contracting out the hardware to companies like Arris, Then what is there to spin off? The hardware design?


 How many iPhones does Apple make themselves? What would be there be to spin off if they sold off the iOS product division? It would be something that would carry a large price tag.

Microsoft just sold Windows for a long time. What would there be to sell off if they let go of Windows OS? Similar large price tag. There is on onus to port Windows onto a wide variety of hardware but there is a trade off which seems to keep Microsoft profitable the last couple of decades.

The hardware without the software isn't a complete system.

Can be taken to even larger extreme if follow path like Google-Android where just license the base implementation of the software implementation and the hardware vendors have to finish off the low level hardware specific parts.

Lots of retail customers don't realize but Tivo products also where on the "back end" for MCO folks also. Similar mix of licensing and value add contract building of systems. The other major part is the analysis of the data collected ( and that where having the software is value add to point all that data back to the aggregation pool. ).

As the core "System on a Chip" get far more capable ( multiple cores, good enough for 2D 4K screen GPU , fixed function logic hardware video en/decode of top end codecs (so even less core/GPU load) , etc. and do all that at relatively low power. ). Not doing ground up customer RF tuners for the input signals. The digital audio libraries are mostly standardized. There really aren't huge "value add" gaps in the hardware. Most top end TVs have a SoC that can do the stream/receive and display job all by themselves.


----------



## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

mschnebly said:


> If Tivo is contracting out the hardware to companies like Arris, Then what is there to spin off? The hardware design?


TiVo always contracted hardware (or they were built by OEMs like Philips.) Before Arris I believe it was Pace, which is now owned by Arris.


----------



## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

So it's basically selling off the software...


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

ElT60 said:


> Not much of that combine and separate at the closer....


After a merger (which promises advantages for the shareholders (some are possibly real, some are never materialized)), comes the formal strategic review of the acquired assets, and deciding what to keep and what to spin-out or terminate (while some initial evaluations was performed in the middle of the M&A event, the formal (post merger) eval gives the acquired units a chance to demonstrate they can add value moving forward). Xperi is fundamentally an IP company (aka patent troll), so one can easily imagine they primarily wanted the Rovi/Tivo IP to add to their portfolio to increase IP revenue. The rest of the company previously known as Tivo (which actually consists of multiple mostly independent operational units) will be evaluated as to how they can benefit the revenue stream, and if they do not make it above the line will be spun out or terminated. As the direct consumer electronics market is highly competitive and historically low margin, I do not believe it would surprise anyone that that part of the company will be spun out in some form or the other in the future (or, alternatively, they will essentially terminate significant new development and just sit on the revenue stream until it slowly declines to its end), although there is the complexity that the consumer market and the operator market have different synergies in development (Tivo (the stb part of Tivo) makes their money in the operator market, but as the operator market moves to Android TV some of those synergies may be waning). However, as an IP business, they do need to keep innovating in order to have new and different IP to license and produce revenue, so exactly what gets spun out will be interesting after the "strategic review" is complete.

<sacrasm> I, for one, welcome our new IP overlords (what could possibly go wrong) </sarcasm>


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

SullyND said:


> TiVo always contracted hardware (or they were built by OEMs like Philips.) Before Arris I believe it was Pace, which is now owned by Arris.


Before Pace, I believe it was SCI Sanmina.

Arris sold... Did they not make Tivo boxes? mentioned a few names. TiVoPony alluded to some unnamed subcontactor (search for san jose) at Blue Moon X and Blue Moon IX.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

I see the Tivo site now mentions "a part of Xperi". Maybe it's just me but I could not find a support phone number. Had to go into a chat to get the number. Fortunately the chat person was able to answer my question also, and I wrote the number in my book.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

Xperi has a market cap of about 700M. The final market cap for Tivo was a bit more, about 770M. Within the past 12 months Tivo was close to a billion at one time. And I thought I saw something about Tivo securing like 715M in loans and another 60M credit facility whatever that is (surprised me considering the state of the company, who would loan them that much money?) Anyway I myself would not touch the stock....................

Hmm, one of the stories about the merger claims it was/is a 3 billion $ deal. "Combined Enterprise Value", again whatever that means.


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

tommage1 said:


> Xperi has a market cap of about 700M. The final market cap for Tivo was a bit more, about 770M. Within the past 12 months Tivo was close to a billion at one time. And I thought I saw something about Tivo securing like 715M in loans and another 60M credit facility whatever that is (surprised me considering the state of the company, who would loan them that much money?) Anyway I myself would not touch the stock....................
> 
> Hmm, one of the stories about the merger claims it was/is a 3 billion $ deal. "Combined Enterprise Value", again whatever that means.


This has been going on for years in the drug trade. In the movie "Atlantic City (1981)", the synopsis for one classic scene goes like this: "In Lou's apartment, Dave cut part of his prime cocaine powder, unwrapped from his packet, with Italian baby laxative (a white powder) to stretch its price-worth from $2,000 to $4,000 dollars."
You like magic?
Pass your hand over the scale.
What?
Come on! Go on! Do it.
That's $2,000.
Two thousand dollars?
Okay, say abracadabra.
- Come on.
- Come on, say it!
Abracadabra.
That's $4,000.


----------



## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

It's interesting that we suddenly have some recently joined folks who have decided to chime in here.


----------



## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

tommage1 said:


> (surprised me considering the state of the company, who would loan them that much money?)


When it comes to loans, it is often what the revenue is, and not simply the current market capitalization(*). Tivo has a lot of revenue coming in that can be used to pay off the loans in the future. And most businesses (small to huge) will have various lines of credits available to draw upon when needed.

(*) while not quite the same, you can often get a car loan even if you are deep in the red because you still owe a huge amount on the mortgage of the house, as long as you have an adequate income stream to pay off those debts over time.


----------



## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

I believe its time to kill off this thread... Going downhill FAST.


----------



## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

ElT60 said:


> Microsoft just sold Windows for a long time. What would there be to sell off if they let go of Windows OS? Similar large price tag. There is on onus to port Windows onto a wide variety of hardware but there is a trade off which seems to keep Microsoft profitable the last couple of decades.


Actually, Microsoft's cash cow was MS DOS which Gates paid $75k for in May of 1981 because Microsoft needed an OS for the IBM PC. Within a year, Microsoft licensed MS-DOS to over 70 other companies. Windows didn't come along until 1985. By then, Microsoft was working on OS2 for IBM and what would become Microsoft Office.

Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak has since said:
_"The computer was never the problem. The company's strategy was. Apple saw itself as a hardware company; in order to protect our hardware profits, we didn't license our operating system. We had the most beautiful operating system, but to get it you had to buy our hardware at twice the price. That was a mistake. What we should have done was calculate an appropriate price to license the operating system. We were also naive to think that the best technology would prevail. It often doesn't."_​
Sound familiar?


----------



## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

tommiet said:


> I believe its time to kill off this thread... Going downhill FAST.


Except all TiVo web pages seem to have a new top line. "A part of Xperi".


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tommage1 said:


> I see the Tivo site now mentions "a part of Xperi". Maybe it's just me but I could not find a support phone number. Had to go into a chat to get the number. Fortunately the chat person was able to answer my question also, and I wrote the number in my book.


No it wasn't just you. I saw the number the night before. After CSR hours. But the next day I could not find it. And it wasn't until I went into chat that the number from the previous night showed up.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> No it wasn't just you. I saw the number the night before. After CSR hours. But the next day I could not find it. And it wasn't until I went into chat that the number from the previous night showed up.


Looks like they might become one of those companies that don't want people to call, make it impossible to find a phone number. Problem is, email support is not good (USED to be good before Rovi, after Rovi they just email you back and say to call). But now what will they say/do? The chat was so so, even simple questions rather long delay, like the chat person had to look things up or contact someone else before answering. Thought off shore Rovi support was bad, could be worse now........................


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> No it wasn't just you. I saw the number the night before. After CSR hours. But the next day I could not find it. And it wasn't until I went into chat that the number from the previous night showed up.


Odd, I decided to check the support page and when I went to contact us, the number showed up same as usual.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

morac said:


> Odd, I decided to check the support page and when I went to contact us, the number showed up same as usual.


That is really odd, I just checked again and still did not find a number. Went to tivo.com. Clicked on "support" near top of page. Took me to a page with a search box, and a bunch of activate and article/question type links. Clicked around, still never found a phone number. As I clicked around I got a page that had "support" and "contact us" near the bottom of the page. But when I clicked on those it took me to the activate/article page again. Heck I did not even find a number when clicking on "shop". I could add to cart and start checkout process but I stopped at that point as am not buying, never saw a number to just call and order. Please describe what you did when you found phone numbers. Perhaps you had a cached web site that still showed number? Did the web pages show "a part of Xperi" at the top of the page?

Oh, 7AM central when I checked now, not open yet. Not sure what time it was when I checked the other day. This time no "chat" window popped up, maybe because not open yet. So this time I could not find a way to do anything, other than email.


----------



## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

I figured it out, first click on support, then when you get to the search box page you have to click on one of the pictures, then the contact support button appears, then click on customer support. Guess I forgot, today most things are videos and pictures. Miss the days when visiting a web site I would see actual words like "menu", "help" etc.


----------



## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Wouldn't it be great if Margret and Ted were hired at Xperi?


----------



## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

Mikeguy said:


> Wouldn't it be great if Margret and Ted were hired at Xperi?


And wouldn't it be great if they also brought back the old TiVo mascot with a real face that could convey emotion? Then they could make a video of him marching with the protestors in unison for George Floyd (not with the violent looters and rioters!)!


----------



## humbb (Jan 27, 2014)

BillyClyde said:


> And wouldn't it be great if they also brought back the old TiVo


FTFY


----------



## BillyClyde (Mar 3, 2017)

humbb said:


> FTFY


Thanks, but it didn't need fixing. It was typed exactly the way I wanted it to be.

Sorry, but I hate when people do that. Maybe instead of fixing my thoughts and opinions, you could just type your own original ones?


----------



## pfiagra (Oct 13, 2014)

BillyClyde said:


> Thanks, but it didn't need fixing. It was typed exactly the way I wanted it to be.
> 
> Sorry, but I hate when people do that. Maybe instead of fixing my thoughts and opinions, you could just type your own original ones?


lighten up. It was obviously a joke about missing the old TiVo (company), not a slam on your post


----------

