# TiVo extended warranty (on lifetime hardware)?



## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

I generally don't buy extended warranties, as they're a waste of money. But with $1000 in my Roamio and Mini, and a hope of using them for the next 4+ years, should I get the TiVo warranty? I've got another week or two before the month is up. But I haven't had time to read its details and understand what it offers and if there's fine print that makes it a particularly good or bad value.


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

$40 to insure $1000. Yes, most definitely.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

I am going to assume Roamio Plus + Lifetime and a Mini + Lifetime for $1050.
Good:
It is cheap. Especially on the Roamio Plus + Lifetime, it is covering $800 for 5% of cost. Typically Tivo's warranties aren't really much of a hassle since it is the manufacturer. Personally, I question the value for the Mini + Lifetime at 16% of cost.

Bad:
It is one time use. Tivo will just replace your box right out of the gate and that ends the warranty.
Some store warranties will cover repairs, but end at replacement. So depending if they can repair it, you might get more mileage out of at store's warranty.
For an item like the Tivo Mini, I would consider a store's warranty. They typically base their warranty price on the sales price. For them and the Mini, that is $99. However, the warranty effectively covers the service as well (an additional $149). This puts the cost for a store one typically much lower than Tivo no the Mini. For example, Best Buy charges $20 and covers 4 years instead of 3 for an effective cost of 8%.
Some stores offer warranties of longer than 3 years, but they typically cost a lot more than Tivo's offer on the Roamio Plus.

I don't do many warranties myself either. However, I do see a definite possible value on the Roamio Plus warranty from Tivo. Not so much on the Mini (if you really want one, I would purchase and get it from a store there).


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## jdmass (Dec 1, 2002)

I agree. I was in the same boat: a roamio pro with lifetime. I rarely buy extended warranties, but $39 seemed to be a great offer. Now the thing that I did not do was buy it for my 2 minis. I don't know how they can charge the same price for the extended warranty on that device as for a roamio.


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for the info. Yes, it's Roamio Plus and a Mini. Both retail with lifetime (MSD $399 on Roamio)

A one-time replacement for $40 that preserves the lifetime on the box is not a bad deal. I think I'll buy that. I'll see what they charge on the mini and may do it too, for simplicity.


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## bob61 (Apr 23, 2002)

Extended warranty cost is same as Roamio, $29 for 2 year and $39 for 3 year. I took the extended on my Roamio but took pass on my Mini's. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

You are not insuring the lifetime sub. If the TiVo fails outside of the 90 day warranty TiVo will charge you for the repair. Its actually done as a cross ship of a refurb unit to you and you return your dead TiVo. The subscription is transferred to the 'repaired' unit. Cost of the repair has been $149. You are spending $39 to insure against a $149 possible expenditure in the future. Not a good price at all.

I'd pass on the Tivo extended warranty. Or, go ahead and help keep Tivo profitable, we need them around.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Electronics are extremely reliable. That is why these are offered as overall, they are a great value to the seller. While we will hear of someone using them from time to time, most often they expire and move from a liability account to an asset account for the insurance company.


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## sterfry (Dec 21, 2001)

My very first TiVo Series 1 suffered a modem failure within 30 days of purchasing it. It was exchanged and the replacement worked flawlessly until I replaced it with a Philips DSR6000 DirecTiVo. The DirecTiVo required one fan replacement due to failure in the 10 years that it was in service. I cut the cord and replaced the DirecTiVo with a TiVo Premiere XL. I replaced the fan in the Premier XL due to excessive noise after 1 year. 2 years later I have replaced the Premiere XL with a Roamio Basic and a TiVo Mini. All of my TiVos had / have a lifetime service.

The modem failure is the only serious failure I have experienced so far. I consider fans and hard drives consumable items since they will all fail if given enough time. For me $10 fans that are simple to replace haven't justified the cost of an extended warranty.


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

I just sent an Elite in under the extended warranty, didn't pay for anything, including shipping, and was told that the warranty would transfer to the "new" box that I receive. Seems to be well worth $39 to me.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

jcthorne said:


> You are not insuring the lifetime sub. If the TiVo fails outside of the 90 day warranty TiVo will charge you for the repair. Its actually done as a cross ship of a refurb unit to you and you return your dead TiVo. The subscription is transferred to the 'repaired' unit.


When I had a two-year old Series 3 fail, there was a fee to transfer Lifetime to the 'repaired' unit.

TiVo charge me $156 for the replacement unit, $199 to move Lifetime over to that replacement unit, and I had to pay about $25 to ship the failed unit back.

Is that policy different now?



> Dear Jason,
> 
> This is confirmation of your TiVo Return Merchandise Authorization (RMA).
> 
> ...


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

aristoBrat said:


> When I had a two-year old Series 3 fail, there was a fee to transfer Lifetime to the 'repaired' unit.
> 
> TiVo charge me $156 for the replacement unit, $199 to move Lifetime over to that replacement unit, and I had to pay about $25 to ship the failed unit back.
> 
> Is that policy different now?


If you had no extended warranty then they actually did you a solid by charging you $199 for the transfer instead of a full new lifetime service.

Under an extended warranty you should get a one time transfer of lifetime from bad box to good box with no charge.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

And on another board I read one poster who got their unit replaced (w/ lifetime transferred) for only $49 w/ free shipping, well over a year after first purchased.

So if you're comfortable playing CSR roulette after your standard warranty expires you might get as lucky as the above.


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## bdspilot (Dec 10, 2010)

ShoutingMan said:


> I generally don't buy extended warranties, as they're a waste of money. But with $1000 in my Roamio and Mini, and a hope of using them for the next 4+ years, should I get the TiVo warranty? I've got another week or two before the month is up. But I haven't had time to read its details and understand what it offers and if there's fine print that makes it a particularly good or bad value.


+1
This is one of the times that it seem like a good investment, I bought the pro and have it in a cabinet, plus if you sell it within the 1sr 3 years, your selling a pro with lifetime and warranty.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Extended warranties on consumer electronics are generally not worth the money, and this one is no different. About the only thing that will fail is the drive, and on these that's a dirt-simple replacement now. Of course you always have a chance to get a rare failure on something else after the standard warranty expires, but it's not likely.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

slowbiscuit said:


> Extended warranties on consumer electronics are generally not worth the money, and this one is no different. About the only thing that will fail is the drive, and on these that's a dirt-simple replacement now. Of course you always have a chance to get a rare failure on something else after the standard warranty expires, but it's not likely.


what is "different" is that most consumer electronics don't have service that is tied to a particular unit.


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Extended warranties on consumer electronics are generally not worth the money, and this one is no different. About the only thing that will fail is the drive, and on these that's a dirt-simple replacement now. Of course you always have a chance to get a rare failure on something else after the standard warranty expires, but it's not likely.


It may not be likely, but I still say $40 for insurance against that on a $1000 purchase is definitely worth it.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

Goober96 said:


> It may not be likely, but I still say $40 for insurance against that on a $1000 purchase is definitely worth it.


Agreed.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

It's a brand-new design.

Hopefully the only long-term points of failure will be the hard drive or power supply, but if there is something serious enough to say need a motherboard revision $40 or so for a version 2 replacement is cheap insurance.

Didn't some Series 3 units have an issue with failure of the HDMI output?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ncbill said:


> It's a brand-new design.
> 
> Didn't some Series 3 units have an issue with failure of the HDMI output?


Yes I bought a refurbed Series 3 ended up having to return 3 units to get a fully functional one, 2 of the bad units had bad HDMI ports.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> what is "different" is that most consumer electronics don't have service that is tied to a particular unit.


Doesn't make it different, just increases the potential cost in case of failure.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

And for a Roamio, the most likely cost of failure is significantly less than prior boxes. The mostly likely problem is solved with just the cost of a hard drive, and with minimal effort to boot!


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Doesn't make it different, just increases the potential cost in case of failure.


Right with lifetime you have to consider the total cost not just the hardware costs. 5 years ago I paid $2,200 for a new TV with only a 1 year warranty and did not buy insurance not sure why I would buy insurance on a $600 (what my Roamio cost) DVR. I also just bought a $900+ AV receiver (which I am sure is going to fail soon ) and didn't buy any insurance for that either.

But my take is everyone needs to go to their own comfort level, if buying insurance on electronic devices makes you feel better than by all means do it. Just reducing someones stress level might be worth the cost of it.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

atmuscarella said:


> I also just bought a $900+ AV receiver (which I am sure is going to fail soon ) and didn't buy any insurance for that either.


This should be covered by the warranty. Or by a credit card extended warranty. Register the product just in case there is a special, unannounced extended warranty.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

chicagobrownblue said:


> This should be covered by the warranty. Or by a credit card extended warranty. Register the product just in case there is a special, unannounced extended warranty.


Yes it is a Denon that has a 3 year warranty, the unit is only 40 days old and started having problems right after the time period I could return it to the vendor I bought it from. Denon has not been willing to replace it yet because the problems are intermittent (unit blows it's internal breaker often but sometimes will run for several hours before it happens). The problem is getting worse so I assume at some point the unit will fail and then I will have to deal with them repairing it instead of replacing it .


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

ShoutingMan said:


> Thanks for the info. Yes, it's Roamio Plus and a Mini. Both retail with lifetime (MSD $399 on Roamio)
> 
> A one-time replacement for $40 that preserves the lifetime on the box is not a bad deal. I think I'll buy that. I'll see what they charge on the mini and may do it too, for simplicity.


I think this is a good idea too. It is almost like you are pre-paying shipping for a defective unit. I normally don't buy extended warranties either, but I would probably buy this one.

Regardless, put the Roamie on a good surge suppressor, I think my TiVo Premiere was fried out by some residual lighting in the cable system I am on. It was dead and TiVo had no suggestions. I unplugged it for a day and then it came back from the dead. It is now on a surge suppressor but I still have not routed the coax from the wall through the surge suppressor to the TiVo. My bad.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

jcthorne said:


> Cost of the repair has been $149. You are spending $39 to insure against a $149 possible expenditure in the future. Not a good price at all.


$39/$149 = 0.2617

So, if the probability of the OP's Roamio having a failure covered by the extended warranty is greater than 26.17%, it is a good deal. If the probability is less than 26.17% then it is not a good deal. I don't think 26.17% of all Roamios will fail, but that is a population statistic and may not apply to the specific model that the OP receives.

TiVo is a business that is focused on making money. I don't think the $39 is as unreasonable a price as you think it is.

Based on other Roamio comments, I'll probably switch to paying my TiVo subscription month-by-month so that in case my Premiere fails, I can just buy a Roamio.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

chicagobrownblue said:


> I think this is a good idea too. It is almost like you are pre-paying shipping for a defective unit. I normally don't buy extended warranties either, but I would probably buy this one.
> 
> Regardless, put the Roamie on a good surge suppressor, I think my TiVo Premiere was fried out by some residual lighting in the cable system I am on. It was dead and TiVo had no suggestions. I unplugged it for a day and then it came back from the dead. It is now on a surge suppressor but I still have not routed the coax from the wall through the surge suppressor to the TiVo. My bad.


What you want is an inline coax suppressor with a ceramic fuse. Put it inline at the coax ingress point of your residence and everything is covered in one place. They are about $20 shipped and highly worth it as coax is a common entry point for electrical surges.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

That is a percentage, not a probability.

Anyhow, how much do folks get charged for other insurance policies? At $40/$1000, a $200,000 house would be $8000 a year. Or, considering this is a 36 month service (right?), that would be $2666 a year. Still a crazy high rate.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

jrtroo said:


> That is a percentage, not a probability.


It is the break even probability for the risk neutral point:

You compare the probability to get the expected result. If there is a 26.17% chance of failure the expected cost is 0.2617 * $149 = $39. Do I have to do all the stoichastic math for you ?

Then the OP evaluates whether or not the probability that his Roamio will break is greater than 26.17% or not.

This is like in Vegas where the house has odds better than the gambler. In this case TiVo is the house and is assuming that the Roamios as a population will have a much lower failure rate than 26.17%, so TiVo should make money on the deal.

The OP, however, does not have a population of Roamios, just one or a few. His probability could be much different due to bad parts in a batch, bad assembly technique, bad QA/QC, ...



jrtroo said:


> Anyhow, how much do folks get charged for other insurance policies? At $40/$1000, a $200,000 house would be $8000 a year. Or, considering this is a 36 month service (right?), that would be $2666 a year. *Still a crazy high rate*.


We disagree.

Call up the company that insures your house and ask how much they will charge to insure your Roamio? Silly comparison.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

jmpage2 said:


> What you want is an inline coax suppressor with a ceramic fuse. Put it inline at the coax ingress point of your residence and everything is covered in one place. They are about $20 shipped and highly worth it as coax is a common entry point for electrical surges.


Wow, thanks!


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

jrtroo said:


> That is a percentage, not a probability.
> 
> Anyhow, how much do folks get charged for other insurance policies? At $40/$1000, a $200,000 house would be $8000 a year. Or, considering this is a 36 month service (right?), that would be $2666 a year. Still a crazy high rate.


I am not sure if those are comparable. Homeowners insurance covers an extremely low risk item. It also has a significant deductible.

You may disagree with the value proposition, but here it is much better than many other warranty options on electronics. It is up to the purchaser if they see value or not.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

I need to get into the electronic insurance business! 

To each their own.


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## skid71 (Mar 20, 2013)

jmpage2 said:


> What you want is an inline coax suppressor with a ceramic fuse. Put it inline at the coax ingress point of your residence and everything is covered in one place. They are about $20 shipped and highly worth it as coax is a common entry point for electrical surges.


jmpage2,
Can you provide an online retailer or link for this particular device if it's no bother?

I would place this device before the coax goes into the splitter? (the splitter is housed in a box on the side of my home) Now that I think of it, that's where the POE filter is installed. Where exactly would I install the inline coax suppressor?

Thank you for your help. I hate/love electricity.

Skid


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## Goober96 (Jun 28, 2005)

skid71 said:


> jmpage2,
> Can you provide an online retailer or link for this particular device if it's no bother?
> 
> I would place this device before the coax goes into the splitter? (the splitter is housed in a box on the side of my home) Now that I think of it, that's where the POE filter is installed. Where exactly would I install the inline coax suppressor?
> ...


I would like one with MoCA POE filter built in. I found one on Soontai's website but I can't figure out how to order from them.  Anyone know how to get these? I searched EBay and Amazon with no luck.

http://www.soontai.com/MoCA-PoE-h.htm


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

skid71 said:


> jmpage2,
> Can you provide an online retailer or link for this particular device if it's no bother?
> 
> I would place this device before the coax goes into the splitter? (the splitter is housed in a box on the side of my home) Now that I think of it, that's where the POE filter is installed. Where exactly would I install the inline coax suppressor?
> ...


I have this one;

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=pv

Looks like it isn't available now. You can find similar ones on Amazon just do a search. It goes before the moca filter so that its the first inline to your residence.


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## NoVa (Feb 26, 2006)

skid71 said:


> jmpage2,
> Can you provide an online retailer or link for this particular device if it's no bother?
> 
> I would place this device before the coax goes into the splitter? (the splitter is housed in a box on the side of my home) Now that I think of it, that's where the POE filter is installed. Where exactly would I install the inline coax suppressor?
> ...


You would put the coax surge protector in that box where the cable entering your house ias housed. I would put the MOCA filter inside your house .


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## donnoh (Mar 7, 2008)

I have one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130901754657?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

I couldn't tell you if it works or not.


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm a little irrational on this one  But I lean towards the extended warranty. It's something to do with the lifetime service vs ongoing monthly fees.

I need to call TiVo to get more info. Their website doesn't give the cost or expiration date of extended warranties. One thing I note: it should be free to transfer Lifetime Service to a new Tivo replaced within the 1-yr limited warranty (though I have to pay repair costs I infer).

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/20/related/1
Product Lifetime Service is valid only for the life of the TiVo DVR for which it was originally purchased and can be transferred to another DVR only in one of the following situations:

* You activated the TiVo DVR with Product Lifetime Service less than 30 days ago.
* The TiVo DVR was exchanged under warranty, either through the retailer or the manufacturer. (Proof of this exchange will be required).
* The TiVo DVR was activated under an incorrect service number.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/32/kw/warranty
Limited Warranty:
If you have purchased Product Lifetime Service for the life of your Series2 DT, Series3, Premiere Series, or Roamio Series DVR, the device has a 90-day warranty on parts and labor.

After 90 days, you will have a limited warranty for no more than one (1) year from the original purchase date.

The sticky wicket could be if they exercised the refund option: instead of replacing my Tivo and transferring lifetime, they could refund my hardware purchase price and screw me over. Perhaps that's not what the language means, but I read that as an option from this paragraph:

Maximum liability under this Contract shall be the cost of: (I) one replacement with a Product of like grade and quality or (II) reimbursement of the retail price paid for the products minus the sales tax. This Contract provides for only the one-time replacement of the Product with another Product of like grade and quality. This Contract will expire at the time of this replacement or reimbursement for replacement or term expiration and the covered Product becomes the property of Service Net and We may, at Our discretion, require the Product to be returned to Us (or Our designee) at Our expense. Service Net reserves the right to replace the Product with a remanufactured or refurbished Product.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

I usually don't buy it, but it paid off on one of my Premiere XLs. The unit completely died. It locked up on the CableCARD screen and after pulling the plug since it wouldn't do anything it didn't boot. It was completely dead.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

innocentfreak said:


> I usually don't buy it, but it paid off on one of my Premiere XLs. The unit completely died. It locked up on the CableCARD screen and after pulling the plug since it wouldn't do anything it didn't boot. It was completely dead.


The insurance has about a 80% profit, so with 1000 people using the insurance the co takes in about $40,000 and pays out about $8000, but the trick is that the only real cost to TiVo to replace a customers TiVo is the hardware cost, the xfer of Lifetime will cost TiVo nothing, but would cost you $399, so in this case $40 is most likely ok for 3 years of insurance, if you are *not upgrading your TiVo.*. That may be the rub for many on this forum, it is for me, that why I don't purchase the insurance.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Yep that's an important point - if you buy the extended warranty on a Basic or Plus, you better not drop a bigger drive in it.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

If you plan to replace the hard drive yourself.....keep in mind that if that fails, TiVo likely won't cover it. I'd keep my original drive around anyway just in case. Not sure you'd want to waste the warranty replacement on a failed drive (if you upgraded) anyway. 

I see the TiVo warranty as a pretty decent deal covering the basic hardware. Failures happen....and if it's a hardware failure (not drive related)....it will definitely pay off. It's basically like any other insurance....only thing it's good for is IF there is a failure.

My biggest thing is the lifetime transfer for free to the replaced device. Had to make 2 calls a 1 chat with Tivo to get a straight answer. Basically, if you have a lifetime unit, and the extended warranty, if you need a replacement......they will transfer that warranty for free within that 3 year period to the new unit.

The replacement unit doesn't continue the extended warranty.....but Tivo told me you can buy another policy for the replacement....but if that one fails under the warranty you cannot transfer the lifetime sub again. At that point they will likely charge something like the $199 fee.

I just got a Roamio Plus and I think I'm going to get the $399 lifetime and the $40 extended warranty. This is replacing a Tivo HD that we've had for 8 years.....we've paid over $1200 in monthly fees for that.....so $399 is almost a no brainer considering we keep the Tivo for so long.

-Kevin


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

I don't plan to replace the hard drive. The 1 TB is plenty for me for a while.

I called TiVo to get details and buy the warranty. However, they said they're having very long wait times due to the weather. I hung up, and will call back this week.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

You should be able to add the extended warranty online, without having to call them.


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> You should be able to add the extended warranty online, without having to call them.


You can during the initial activation. Once it's activated, they force you to call.

-Kevin


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

kbmb said:


> You can during the initial activation. Once it's activated, they force you to call.
> 
> -Kevin


The link for the warranty is on your account screen for about 90 days after activation, you do not have to call!!


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

lessd said:


> The link for the warranty is on your account screen for about 90 days after activation, you do not have to call!!


Not mine. My link said Get Extended Warranty right under the DVR name that popped up window that told me to call (which I did).

Maybe everybody's is different.

-Kevin


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lessd said:


> The link for the warranty is on your account screen for about 90 days after activation, you do not have to call!!


That's what I thought since I had been seeing the link for the extended warranty, next to my Roamio Pro on my account page, since a few days after I activated it.

But I just clicked on it and it then says that I need to call to add the warranty. Which really makes no sense. They should have it setup so no human interaction is involved. Especially since when you call you will have to wait for a CSR.

They let you activate a box online and subscribe to the TiVo service. So you would think they would be able to let you add the warranty to the TiVo online as well.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

Ordered my warranty online and it shows fine for me. Maybe there was a problem with your card when they tried to run it.

On my Mini it says I would need to call so maybe they changed it so you have to call after activation.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

kbmb said:


> Not mine. My link said Get Extended Warranty right under the DVR name that popped up window that told me to call (which I did).
> 
> Maybe everybody's is different.
> 
> -Kevin


Just checked my link and it did say to call, so I guess the way you get this warranty has changed for some of us.


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

aaronwt said:


> You should be able to add the extended warranty online, without having to call them.


Can't do it online. The details page doesn't give cost or duration, and requires me to call to purchase. Annoying, but that's how TiVo is doing it.


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

Roamio & Mini
Cost: $30 / 2015, $40 / 2016 from purchase date
Parts & Labor: none within warranty
Cost to transfer Lifetime: no within warranty
Cost to transfer Lifetime without Extended: some fee
Lifetime lost if purchase price refunded?


I bought the 3 yr for the Roamio (ok deal) and 2 yr for Mini (not so good deal, but I'm on the phone spending money)


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## whm (Jul 30, 2010)

lessd said:


> The link for the warranty is on your account screen for about 90 days after activation, you do not have to call!!


Actually you do have to call. When I clicked the link it just puts up a box with the phone number.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ShoutingMan said:


> Roamio & Mini
> Cost: $30 / 2015, $40 / 2016 from purchase date
> Parts & Labor: none within warranty
> Cost to transfer Lifetime: no within warranty
> ...


The extended warranty at BestBuy is a better deal for the Mini. For only $20 you can get a 4 year warranty on the Mini from Best Buy. $14 gets you a two year warranty.


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## danjw1 (Sep 13, 2005)

Does anyone know if the accept Square Trade warranties for transfer of lifetime?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

When I added lifetime service to my replacement Roamio Pro today online, it gave me the option to add a 2 or 3 year extended warranty. So I guess you can only do it online when you do the initial activation. Since with the other Pro it said I needed to call. 

I just started setting up the replacement but I wanted it to already have service when I plugged it in so hopefully there aren't issues. AT least it did boot up fine and is installing the initial update.


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## NJguy (Sep 11, 2013)

jcthorne said:


> You are not insuring the lifetime sub. If the TiVo fails outside of the 90 day warranty TiVo will charge you for the repair. Its actually done as a cross ship of a refurb unit to you and you return your dead TiVo. The subscription is transferred to the 'repaired' unit. Cost of the repair has been $149. You are spending $39 to insure against a $149 possible expenditure in the future. Not a good price at all.


After weighing options I happen to agree with this. After an online chat I found that if my Roamio becomes defective within 3 they will send a refurb for $149 and transfer the lifetime subscription to it. As someone else said, electronics are generally reliable so I'm going to take my chance and pass on the warranty.


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

NJguy said:


> After weighing options I happen to agree with this. After an online chat I found that if my Roamio becomes defective within 3 they will send a refurb for $149 and transfer the lifetime subscription to it. As someone else said, electronics are generally reliable so I'm going to take my chance and pass on the warranty.


There's also the cost of transferring Lifetime Service.

Extended warranties are not good deals, by the basic economics. But this one felt appealing to me.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

NJguy said:


> After weighing options I happen to agree with this. After an online chat I found that if my Roamio becomes defective within 3 they will send a refurb for $149 and transfer the lifetime subscription to it. As someone else said, electronics are generally reliable so I'm going to take my chance and pass on the warranty.


In the past, the transfer cost has been $199, so that makes $348 for the "repair." There is NO guarantee that Tivo will continue to honor such a program either. I am not directly arguing for the warranty, but I thought that your post was misleading since it didn't quote the cost associated.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

That's my feeling too. You can save that CSR transcript and hope that TiVo honors those prices for a refurb replacement down the road but it's not in writing as a guarantee, which IS the case with an extended warranty.

I don't normally buy extended warranties, but on some items like cell phones (were damage is covered) or something like a TiVo that has a very high cost of replacement compared to the cost of the coverage it is something of a no brainer.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

socrplyr said:


> In the past, the transfer cost has been $199, so that makes $348 for the "repair." There is NO guarantee that Tivo will continue to honor such a program either. I am not directly arguing for the warranty, but I thought that your post was misleading since it didn't quote the cost associated.


In the first 3 years TiVo will xfer the lifetime for the $149 price, the extra $199 lifetime xfer comes after 3 years for any TiVo exchange.


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## socrplyr (Jul 19, 2006)

edit


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

jmpage2 said:


> That's my feeling too. You can save that CSR transcript and hope that TiVo honors those prices for a refurb replacement down the road but it's not in writing as a guarantee, which IS the case with an extended warranty.
> 
> I don't normally buy extended warranties, but on some items like cell phones (were damage is covered) or something like a TiVo that has a very high cost of replacement compared to the cost of the coverage it is something of a no brainer.


Agreed....that's why I spent the $40 for the extended warranty. My wife and I will skip a dinner out to pay for it 

With Lifetime, I didn't want to take the chance of not having it follow the box. With the warranty, you not only get the replacement for free, but the lifetime will transfer to it.

Now what no one at Tivo has been able to confirm is.....if I order another warranty on the replacement box (which they tell me I can do), and it fails again (within the 3 years), will they transfer the lifetime again. I've gotten mixed answers. Most however will say that if I end up having that much trouble....they'll work with me.

-Kevin


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

kbmb said:


> Agreed....that's why I spent the $40 for the extended warranty. My wife and I will skip a dinner out to pay for it
> 
> With Lifetime, I didn't want to take the chance of not having it follow the box. With the warranty, you not only get the replacement for free, but the lifetime will transfer to it.
> 
> ...


TiVo does not to repair a 5 year old TiVo and xfer Lifetime for the $149 price, between a 3 and 5 year old TiVo they may work with you. YMMV


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## NJguy (Sep 11, 2013)

jcthorne said:


> You are not insuring the lifetime sub. If the TiVo fails outside of the 90 day warranty TiVo will charge you for the repair. Its actually done as a cross ship of a refurb unit to you and you return your dead TiVo. The subscription is transferred to the 'repaired' unit. Cost of the repair has been $149. You are spending $39 to insure against a $149 possible expenditure in the future. Not a good price at all.


After weighing options I happen to agree with this. After an online chat I found that if my Roamio becomes defective within 3 they will send a refurb for $149 and transfer the lifetime subscription to it. As someone else said, electronics are generally reliable so I'm going to take my chance and pass on the warranty.


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## ShoutingMan (Jan 6, 2008)

NJguy said:


> After weighing options I happen to agree with this. After an online chat I found that if my Roamio becomes defective within 3 they will send a refurb for $149 and transfer the lifetime subscription to it. As someone else said, electronics are generally reliable so I'm going to take my chance and pass on the warranty.


That's interesting, since that's not what I was told by TiVo csr.


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## NJguy (Sep 11, 2013)

ShoutingMan said:


> That's interesting, since that's not what I was told by TiVo csr.


I have the online chat as my backup. Do the online chat and then save it. It goes into your account too but I would also save it just in case as I don't know if those stay in my account with TiVo forever since I'm new to this.


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## tooslo (Nov 23, 2007)

Do I have to buy my Roamio directly from Tivo to sign up for the extended warranty? I was going to buy from Amazon and wanted to make sure I could still get the $40 warranty.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tooslo said:


> Do I have to buy my Roamio directly from Tivo to sign up for the extended warranty? I was going to buy from Amazon and wanted to make sure I could still get the $40 warranty.


You can still get the TiVo extended warranty even if you buy the TiVo from an online or Brick and mortar store.


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## siratfus (Oct 3, 2008)

How does tivo deal with you swapping out hard drives? Lets say you do have their extended warranty, but you don't want that "1 time use" to be used. You know it's a hard drive issue and you replace it yourself. The tivo functions fine, then down the road, it really fails and this time it's not because of hard drive. You decide to execute your "1 time use" warranty. When tivo opens it up and realize you swapped hard drives, will they void the extended warranty?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

siratfus said:


> How does tivo deal with you swapping out hard drives? Lets say you do have their extended warranty, but you don't want that "1 time use" to be used. You know it's a hard drive issue and you replace it yourself. The tivo functions fine, then down the road, it really fails and this time it's not because of hard drive. You decide to execute your "1 time use" warranty. When tivo opens it up and realize you swapped hard drives, will they void the extended warranty?


Most people put the original hard drive back in and normally TiVo does not check, but if they do the hard drive check you could have a problem, I have nor heard of any problems in this area.


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## pautler (Oct 10, 2013)

As a general rule I never buy extended warranties, and instead use all of the money that I save to "self insure" against possible failures.

With that being said, I DID make an exception to my own rule and I purchased the TiVo warranty. I have a Roamio basic and two minis, with lifetime service subscriptions on all of them.

I figured my "break even" point with the hardware and lifetime service was approximatley 23 months (as opposed to paying the monthly service fee). With the warranty added on my break even point became 29 months. The warranty gives me piece of mind that I don't have to worry about any system failures until after I get well past my break even point. That's how I justified it.

As others have said, the warranty cost on the Roamio itself seems quite reasonable, but the warranty cost on the minis seems too high. I bought the warranty on 1 mini, but not the other one. With my luck, it will be the one without the extra warranty that will have a problem. LOL 

-Joe


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## tamathat (Sep 11, 2011)

chicagobrownblue said:


> Regardless, put the Roamie on a good surge suppressor, I think my TiVo Premiere was fried out by some residual lighting in the cable system I am on. It was dead and TiVo had no suggestions. I unplugged it for a day and then it came back from the dead. It is now on a surge suppressor but I still have not routed the coax from the wall through the surge suppressor to the TiVo. My bad.


I have a premier that failed to boot this weekend after I changed out the tuning adapter (seemingly unrelated but Tivo CSR believes caused the issue). Fingers crossed it comes back from the dead.. but great point on the coax surge, i totally forgot to do that.. I'm going to surge protect is at the wall instead of at the tivo because it has a y adapter and supplies my cable modem too.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

tamathat said:


> ... but great point on the coax surge, i totally forgot to do that.. I'm going to surge protect is at the wall instead of at the tivo because it has a y adapter and supplies my cable modem too.


So I never did put a coax filter on my Premiere. The power went out last week and when it came back on my Premiere was fried. Fortunately for the TCF thread on Best Buy price match with Amazon and $50 Best Buy gift certificate I now own a Roamio basic.

I've been cursed recently. My initial install of the Roamio went fine but I was missing a lot of channels. I started guided setup from scratch the next day only to have it fail repeatedly. Turns out TiVo was having an issue with their system. Once this was resolved, I chose the right channel lineup and all is well.

The Roamio is on a coax filter now.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

chicagobrownblue said:


> So I never did put a coax filter on my Premiere. The power went out last week and when it came back on my Premiere was fried. Fortunately for the TCF thread on Best Buy price match with Amazon and $50 Best Buy gift certificate I now own a Roamio basic.
> 
> I've been cursed recently. My initial install of the Roamio went fine but I was missing a lot of channels. I started guided setup from scratch the next day only to have it fail repeatedly. Turns out TiVo was having an issue with their system. Once this was resolved, I chose the right channel lineup and all is well.
> 
> The Roamio is on a coax filter now.


What coax filter are you using ?


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

lessd said:


> What coax filter are you using ?


It's built into my battery backup. I did find these online though:

https://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?FamilyID=791&this_Cat1ID=266&Cat2ID=125

https://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?FamilyID=790&this_Cat1ID=266&Cat2ID=125


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

chicagobrownblue said:


> It's built into my battery backup. I did find these online though:
> 
> https://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?FamilyID=791&this_Cat1ID=266&Cat2ID=125
> 
> https://www.mjsales.net/items.asp?FamilyID=790&this_Cat1ID=266&Cat2ID=125


The on-line units are just to block DC voltage not lighting protection.


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## Elgato54 (Sep 21, 2010)

I am ready to buy a warranty. 
Tivo or Squaretrade?

Does Weaknees sell them?


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## ltxi (Feb 14, 2010)

Tivo


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

jmpage2 said:


> What you want is an inline coax suppressor with a ceramic fuse. Put it inline at the coax ingress point of your residence and everything is covered in one place. They are about $20 shipped and highly worth it as coax is a common entry point for electrical surges.


Just now found this:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002KR7EK...TF8&colid=3MFSWXSTMI6MC&coliid=I2LZF11IGLH17F


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

Elgato54 said:


> I am ready to buy a warranty.
> Tivo or Squaretrade?
> 
> Does Weaknees sell them?


Squaretrade does have a 4-year warranty they make available for a Tivo, though you have to buy it from Amazon directly:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008I64N2Y/ (warranty for a MSRP-priced Roamio Pro)


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

chicagobrownblue said:


> Just now found this:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002KR7EK...TF8&colid=3MFSWXSTMI6MC&coliid=I2LZF11IGLH17F


Not sure how good it is, but probably better than nothing. The APC one is VERY good but very hard to find now as they have stopped making it.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> Not sure how good it is, but probably better than nothing. The APC one is VERY good but very hard to find now as they have stopped making it.


Here are some other options:

http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-coaxial-protectors


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

shrike4242 said:


> Here are some other options:
> 
> http://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-coaxial-protectors


Well, you don't even know what it is with a description like this;



> HyperLink's Quarter Wave DC-Short Suppressors are designed to pass the desired frequency while suppressing lightning surges


As an engineer it does not tell me anything. There are no real specifications there for how many joules it absorbs or how it does it. Unless I take it apart and look at what is inside of it, it could just be nothing but a cheap splitter.

This is what a spec sheet for a surge device should look like;

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=PV

There were a few places still selling that protector a few months ago but looks like they've dried up. I should have bought a few spares at that time.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Well this little conversation got me to check around some more and I was able to scoop up a pair of the APC units on eBay for $30 so thanks for bumping the thread.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I'm glad I don't need to mess around with them on FiOS. When I had Comcast and DirecTV I ran the coax through a Monster surge protector before going to the rest of my condo. I got rid of DirectV in 2007 and got Comcast, but also got FiOS in 2007. But the last time I had Comcast was in 2009 so I have not needed to use it since then.

EDIT: I forgot. I still run my OTA line through one.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jmpage2 said:


> Well, you don't even know what it is with a description like this;
> 
> As an engineer it does not tell me anything. There are no real specifications there for how many joules it absorbs or how it does it. Unless I take it apart and look at what is inside of it, it could just be nothing but a cheap splitter.
> 
> ...


How do these specs look to you (or anyone else that knows about these things):

http://tiinetworktechnologies.com/repository/datasheetlibrary/NYMDS036-0710.pdf

I'm thinking about getting one of these for my home, but I'd like to know if they are any good first.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> How do these specs look to you (or anyone else that knows about these things):
> 
> http://tiinetworktechnologies.com/repository/datasheetlibrary/NYMDS036-0710.pdf
> 
> I'm thinking about getting one of these for my home, but I'd like to know if they are any good first.


Well, it's certainly better than nothing since in a high current situation it shunts the common and center conductors to the ground. It's much slower than the APC during high current event. The APC shunts in under one nanosecond and this one looks like it might take about 10-20 microseconds to do so.

Like I said, it's better than having no surge protection.

It also says it operates up to 1ghz, not sure if that's good enough for MoCA, but since should be installed at the point of entry to the home it should be fine.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jmpage2 said:


> Well, it's certainly better than nothing since in a high current situation it shunts the common and center conductors to the ground. It's much slower than the APC during high current event. The APC shunts in under one nanosecond and this one looks like it might take about 10-20 microseconds to do so.
> 
> Like I said, it's better than having no surge protection.
> 
> It also says it operates up to 1ghz, not sure if that's good enough for MoCA, but since should be installed at the point of entry to the home it should be fine.


Well, better than nothing might have to do. I am open to other suggestions, but the APC one is no longer manufactured and as you appear to have cleaned out the stock on ebay, it won't be easy to find.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Well, better than nothing might have to do. I am open to other suggestions, but as the APC one is no longer manufactured and you appear to have cleaned out the stock on ebay, it won't be easy to find.


It will probably be fine. It looks like the APC one is available in a modular version.

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=PVR

You would probably have to buy the four slot rack for it as well. Your other device seems more economically practical.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

jmpage2 said:


> It will probably be fine. It looks like the APC one is available in a modular version.
> 
> http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=PVR
> 
> You would probably have to buy the four slot rack for it as well. Your other device seems more economically practical.


Yeah I think I'll just go with the Tii point-of-entry surge suppressor. I also have a grounded drop amp that supposedly has some surge suppression to it and I have the coax going to my Roamio going through the coax port on a surge protector power strip. Hopefully all that together will be enough to stop most surges from causing damage. I doubt there is anything on the market that is economically practical that can actually stop a direct lightning strike anyways.


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Yeah I think I'll just go with the Tii point-of-entry surge suppressor. I also have a grounded drop amp that supposedly has some surge suppression to it and I have the coax going to my Roamio going through the coax port on a surge protector power strip. Hopefully all that together will be enough to stop most surges from causing damage. I doubt there is anything on the market that is economically practical that can actually stop a direct lightning strike anyways.


Direct lightning strikes on homes are uncommon. Where lightning is common, homes at higher elevations often have lightning rods to at least minimize the damage.

Believe it or not, but a high enough quality surge suppressor that also incorporates a fast fuse can actually sacrifice itself in order to save the connected equipment even in cases of "direct strike".

Nearly all surge damage from strikes is when the lightning hits close to the home location and travels through ground wiring, etc, to enter into the home.


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## shrike4242 (Dec 1, 2006)

jmpage2 said:


> Direct lightning strikes on homes are uncommon. Where lightning is common, homes at higher elevations often have lightning rods to at least minimize the damage.
> 
> Believe it or not, but a high enough quality surge suppressor that also incorporates a fast fuse can actually sacrifice itself in order to save the connected equipment even in cases of "direct strike".
> 
> Nearly all surge damage from strikes is when the lightning hits close to the home location and travels through ground wiring, etc, to enter into the home.


So, would the only thing needed be one at the cable POE between the entry feed and any splitters/etc from that entry feed?


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## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

shrike4242 said:


> So, would the only thing needed be one at the cable POE between the entry feed and any splitters/etc from that entry feed?


There is only a need for one at the point of entry. You don't need them anywhere else because surges should only enter over coax from outside of the home, unless you don't have adequate electrical surge suppression on your coax connected electronics which can then back feed over the coax network if they get zapped.


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## westom (Jan 16, 2010)

shrike4242 said:


> So, would the only thing needed be one at the cable POE between the entry feed and any splitters/etc from that entry feed?


 Assumed is that a protector works by blocking or absorbing a surge. Protectors that do that are for surges too tiny to damage appliances. Recommendations based in hearsay are easily separated from other recommendations based in science. Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How does any protector absorb that energy? Where is a number for how much energy it will absorb? That number even demonstrates why one device called a protector does virtually no protection. And a completely different device called a protector harmlessly earths hundreds of thousands of joules.

Learn how a protect*or* and protect*ion* work. Two completely different components of a surge protection 'system'. Many discuss the item called a protect*or* and completely ignore another more important item called protect*ion*. These concepts were originally introduced in elementary school science.

A surge current seeks earth ground. One conductive path to earth was a wooden church steeple. But wood was not conductive enough; creates a high voltage. A 10,000 amps surge current times a resulting high voltage means high energy dissipated destructively in a steeple.

How did Franklin avert damage? He simply diverted lightning to earth on a path that creates a near zero voltage. Then 10,000 amps times a resulting near zero voltage is near zero energy. No damage. Then hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly in earth.

Will a power strip protector stop what three miles of sky could not? Of course not. Will its few hundred joules absorb those hundreds of thousands of joules that three miles of sky could not absorb? Of course not. Many make claims by ignoring spec numbers and what was even demonstrated by Franklin.

One 'whole house' protector means 10,000 amps creates a near zero voltage. Just like a lightning rod. But only if connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to what actually does the protection - earth ground. Neither lightning rod nor protector do protection. Those are only connecting devices. Protection is always defined by what absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - earth ground.

Potentially destructive surges occur maybe once every seven years. Facilities that cannot have damage always upgrade earthing to make a 'whole house' protector effective. So that protection already inside every appliance is not overwhelmed.

Numbers that define it. A lightning strike is maybe 20,000 amps. So an effective protector connects at least 50,000 amps low impedance to earth. This superior solution also costs less money; about $1 per protected appliance.

Is a device between entry point and splitter connected low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') to single point earth ground? If not, then it does not claim and will not discuss numbers that define effective protection. Protection about a connection to what harmlessly absorbs energy. Useful recommendations always discuss that well proven science.


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## bud-- (Jan 17, 2014)

Excellent information on surges and surge protection is at:
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf
- "How to protect your house and its contents from lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to AC power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE (the IEEE is a major organization of electrical and electronic engineers).
And also:
http://www.eeel.nist.gov/817/pubs/spd-anthology/files/Surges happen!.pdf
- "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to protect the appliances in your home" published by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology

The IEEE surge guide is aimed at people with some technical background.



westom said:


> Assumed is that a protector works by blocking or absorbing a surge.


Neither plug-in or service panel surge protectors work by "blocking" or "absorbing" surges.



westom said:


> Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. How does any protector absorb that energy?


They don't.

An investigation by the author of the NIST surge guide looked at the amount of energy that could be absorbed at a plug-in protector. Branch circuits were 10m and longer, and surges coming in on power wires were up to 10,000A (which is the maximum probable surge, as below). The maximum energy was a surprisingly small 35 joules. In 13 of 15 cases it was 1 joule or less. Plug-in protectors with much higher ratings are readily available.

(Protectors do not protect by absorbing the surge energy, but they absorb some energy in the process of protecting.)



westom said:


> Will a power strip protector stop what three miles of sky could not? Of course not.


Of course not. 
Plug-in protectors do not work by "stopping".

But both the IEEE and NIST surge guides say plug-in protectors are effective. The only 2 detailed examples of protection in the IEEE surge guide use plug-in protectors.

If using a plug-in protector all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same protector. External connections, like coax also must go through the protector. As explained in the IEEE surge guide (starting page 30) plug-in protectors work primarily by limiting the voltage from each wire to the ground at the protector. To do that all wires must go through the protector.



westom said:


> One 'whole house' protector means 10,000 amps creates a near zero voltage.


Service panel protectors are a real good idea.
But from the NIST surge guide:
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances [electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected to power AND cable or phone or....]. Since most homes today have some kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the service entrance is useless."

Service panel protectors do not, by themselves, prevent high voltages from developing between power and cable/phone wires. The NIST surge guide suggests most equipment damage is from high voltage between power and signal wires. An example of where a service panel protector would provide no protection is the IEEE surge guide example starting page 30.

But service panel protectors are very likely to protect anything connected only to power wires from a very near very strong lightning strike.

If you have a service panel protector AND if you have an effective cable protector at the point of entry AND there is a short ground wire from both the panel and cable protector to a common connection point, then devices in the house that connect to both cable and power are likely safe.

Gas discharge tubes in a cable protector have a short time delay as the gas ionizes.

During a surge 'event' the wiring in the house may rise far above 'absolute' ground potential. Much of the protection is that all wiring rises together.



westom said:


> Numbers that define it. A lightning strike is maybe 20,000 amps. So an effective protector connects at least 50,000 amps low impedance to earth.


An "average" lightning strike is about 20,000A. But that is not the surge current to a house that is caused by the strike (unless lightning hits the house, which requires lighting rods for protection).

The author of the NIST surge guide looked at the surge current that could come in on residential power wires. The maximum with any reasonable probability of occurring was 10,000A per wire. That is based on a 100,000A lighting strike to a utility pole adjacent to the house in typical urban overhead distribution.

Recommended ratings for service panel protectors is in the IEEE surge guide on page 18. Ratings far higher than 10,000A per wire mean the protector will have a long life.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I just got the three year extended warranty from TiVo on my Roamio Basic I got from them in November. For only $40 it's not a bad deal. My Roamio Pro has a four year extended warranty from BestBuy. But that cost $70.

Although my Roamio Basic is not on lifetime service like my Roamio Pro is. My Roamio BAsic is on the $6.95 a month plan. But at that rate it takes 57 months to hit the break even point when compared with MSD $400 lifetime service.


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## estacionsj (Feb 8, 2010)

I would like to know if any one has had the same problem like I have with the extended warranty,

So I purchased a TiVo Roamio with lifetime 3/21/2015, 28 days later I purchased the extended 3 year warranty. So about a month ago it went bad. I called they told me I had to options. I could send mine in and get a replacement or they could send me one and they would charge my credit card for it until I returned the defective one back.
So I chose to send it in. I get another unit back and on my account it didn't show it had warranty. I chatted with them and they told me since the warranty follows the original unit and since they sent me another unit , there for it was not the original unit that I purchased the warranty for so they could not transfer it.
Does that sound ethical and correct.
Am I out of luck or should I call them and talk to a supervisor .


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

estacionsj said:


> I would like to know if any one has had the same problem like I have with the extended warranty,
> 
> So I purchased a TiVo Roamio with lifetime 3/21/2015, 28 days later I purchased the extended 3 year warranty. So about a month ago it went bad. I called they told me I had to options. I could send mine in and get a replacement or they could send me one and they would charge my credit card for it until I returned the defective one back.
> So I chose to send it in. I get another unit back and on my account it didn't show it had warranty. I chatted with them and they told me since the warranty follows the original unit and since they sent me another unit , there for it was not the original unit that I purchased the warranty for so they could not transfer it.
> ...


That's correct. The warranty is a one time use tied to the unit.

I was told by TiVo that you can buy a new warranty on the replacement, although not sure you'd want to.

http://www.tivo.com/legal/extended-warranty-service-agreement
-Kevin


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

estacionsj said:


> I would like to know if any one has had the same problem like I have with the extended warranty,
> 
> So I purchased a TiVo Roamio with lifetime 3/21/2015, 28 days later I purchased the extended 3 year warranty. So about a month ago it went bad. I called they told me I had to options. I could send mine in and get a replacement or they could send me one and they would charge my credit card for it until I returned the defective one back.
> So I chose to send it in. I get another unit back and on my account it didn't show it had warranty. I chatted with them and they told me since the warranty follows the original unit and since they sent me another unit , there for it was not the original unit that I purchased the warranty for so they could not transfer it.
> ...


That is TiVos warranty deal, and many other co have the same warranty deal, a one time fix is all you get.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

chicagobrownblue said:


> Call up the company that insures your house and ask how much they will charge to insure your Roamio? Silly comparison.


Actually, it's not a silly comparison. Funny enough, I was talking to my insurance company Friday and they have a personal property rider that has a deductible separate from the main homeowners policy. And it's pretty cheap. And since it can cover a pool of all my electronics, the cost amortization over time may even be better.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, but now this thread has me thinking - time to go get and read the fine print on it, how it works, etc.

Anyway, I would never buy a policy from BestBuy or other store - they are usually pretty hit or miss. I have just as many friends and family that curse as others who praise the BestBuy warranty fulfillment, for example. I'm not sure about Tivo's policies they sell these days but one would hope that buying it from them a lifetime sub would not be an issue.

I do love SquareTrade - and for anyone who is a Costco member, Costco sells SquareTrade warranties and you *do NOT* have to buy the thing you are warrantying from Costco (something that doesn't seem to be common knowledge). I bought a very nice Plasma TV from Sam's since Costco was out of them, but bought the $100 warranty from Costco and applied it to said TV. I believe with Tivo's, Squartrade will re-buy the lifetime if it comes to it to get you a box back - I could be confusing it with another warranty provider but I'm pretty sure it was them.

If you have any question they will happily give you a reply in writing - which is important with any contract related thing. If it isn't written down it doesn't exist! Don't believe anything a sales or other person tells you - if you aren't sure but it's important, make 'em show it to you in the fine print!

Anyway, my thoughts and experiences with warranties. In general they have been unnecessary, but they did provide some nice peace of mind if something had happened - which is what insurance is about. Hedging a small sum against a larger one


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

Don't forget, MANY credit cards have built-in extended warranty as a perk if you use them for purchasing electronic devices.

You could have checked with them to see if they'd cover your Tivo under warranty in case of a failure...


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## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

estacionsj said:


> I would like to know if any one has had the same problem like I have with the extended warranty,
> 
> So I purchased a TiVo Roamio with lifetime 3/21/2015, 28 days later I purchased the extended 3 year warranty. So about a month ago it went bad. I called they told me I had to options. I could send mine in and get a replacement or they could send me one and they would charge my credit card for it until I returned the defective one back.
> So I chose to send it in. I get another unit back and on my account it didn't show it had warranty. I chatted with them and they told me since the warranty follows the original unit and since they sent me another unit , there for it was not the original unit that I purchased the warranty for so they could not transfer it.
> ...


Did they offer you an extended warranty to purchase for the replacement box?


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

jrtroo said:


> Electronics are extremely reliable.


I currently have three legacy TiVos that have been online, working non-stop since day 1:

TiVo Series 3 (8 years)
TiVo Series 2: (12 years)
TiVo Series 1: (14 years.... FOURTEEN!!!, and still on dial-up!)

I would definitely AGREE that some electronics are EXTREMELY reliable!!!


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## estacionsj (Feb 8, 2010)

thefisch said:


> Did they offer you an extended warranty to purchase for the replacement box?


yes they said i had 90 days to purchase a new warranty, but after this experiance why even bother if is not for 3 years.I was also still under the original one year warranty


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## estacionsj (Feb 8, 2010)

​
thanks for all ure guys help


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## MikeBear (May 21, 2015)

estacionsj said:


> yes they said i had 90 days to purchase a new warranty, but after this experiance why even bother if is not for 3 years. I was also still under the original one year warranty


So, since you had PAID for an extended warranty, even though you were still under the 1 year warranty, they STILL nullified your paid 3 year warranty after replacing the bad Tivo?

That's just *dishonest* on Tivo's part any way you want to slice it.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

MikeBear said:


> So, since you had PAID for an extended warranty, even though you were still under the 1 year warranty, they STILL nullified your paid 3 year warranty after replacing the bad Tivo?
> 
> That's just *dishonest* on Tivo's part any way you want to slice it.


Unfortunately:

1. Those are the terms of the extended warranty, clearly stated. So it's not dishonest.

2. You only have 90 days from purchase to buy an extended warranty. Thus if you buy one and have a failure between 90 days and one year you have thrown your money away. It would be nice if that period was one year but again the terms are clearly stated.

Or at least that's how the terms read to me.


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## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

My experience has been that extended warranties don't usually kick in until after the manufacturer warranty expires. Of course, the terms are where the truth is.

In this case (post #99), the purchase was more than 90 days before the issue came up so labor is no longer covered by tivo. The customer would have had to pay the labor fee (not sure how much but maybe at least $49 since that is exchange cost under continual care) and tivo would cover the parts. In this case, the customer used up the $39 paid for the extended warranty. So the warranty might have saved $10 or perhaps more.

I wonder what might have happened in this case if the failure was within 90 days. The extended warranty does not have a wait period that I can see in the terms. To be fair, tivo should honor their 90 days parts and labor and then let the extended warranty kick in after that. Otherwise, anyone who wants an extended warranty should wait until day 90 to purchase.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

estacionsj said:


> I would like to know if any one has had the same problem like I have with the extended warranty,
> 
> So I purchased a TiVo Roamio with lifetime 3/21/2015, 28 days later I purchased the extended 3 year warranty. So about a month ago it went bad. I called they told me I had to options. I could send mine in and get a replacement or they could send me one and they would charge my credit card for it until I returned the defective one back.
> So I chose to send it in. I get another unit back and on my account it didn't show it had warranty. I chatted with them and they told me since the warranty follows the original unit and since they sent me another unit , there for it was not the original unit that I purchased the warranty for so they could not transfer it.
> ...


This is normal. It's right there in the agreement. It's the same at bestbuy. If an item is replaced under the extended warranty then it is no longer in use with the replacement item.

I had a monitor replaced by best buy a few months ago under warranty. I needed to buy a new warranty on the replacement monitor. But at least with BestBuy I got money back. They gave me a gift card for the original price I paid for the monitor 3+ years ago. And with that I purchased the replacement and warranty. But the replacement cost less than it did over three years ago so I had extra credit left to use.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

MikeBear said:


> So, since you had PAID for an extended warranty, even though you were still under the 1 year warranty, they STILL nullified your paid 3 year warranty after replacing the bad Tivo?
> 
> That's just *dishonest* on Tivo's part any way you want to slice it.


Selling you an extended warranty is *already* taking advantage of the buyer's gullibility and poor math skills; it is unreasonable to expect the issuer of the warranty to honor it on a new box because the warranty has already served its purpose, i.e., to extract $40 from your pocket and put it into the issuer's.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Compare the two situations (with and without an extended warranty) if you have to have your lifetime TiVo replaced (under warranty) in the period between 90 days and one year after purchase.

Without extended warranty:
You have to pay shipping back and $50 for the replacement -- and you do not get a new warranty on the replacement. The lifetime is transferred.

With extended warranty:
You have to pay shipping back and nothing for the replacement -- and you do not get a new warranty (extended or regular) on the replacement. The lifetime is transferred.

It looks like both cases leave you in the same place. But (ignoring shipping costs which are the same in either case), the net cost with the extended warranty is $40 while it is $50 for the other case. So aren't you ahead by $10 with the extended warranty?

Or did I get something wrong here?


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## estacionsj (Feb 8, 2010)

MikeBear said:


> So, since you had PAID for an extended warranty, even though you were still under the 1 year warranty, they STILL nullified your paid 3 year warranty after replacing the bad Tivo?
> 
> That's just *dishonest* on Tivo's part any way you want to slice it.


Yes , they nullified the 3 year warranty


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

MikeBear said:


> So, since you had PAID for an extended warranty, even though you were still under the 1 year warranty, they STILL nullified your paid 3 year warranty after replacing the bad Tivo?
> 
> That's just *dishonest* on Tivo's part any way you want to slice it.


The extended warranty overrides the 1 year warranty if I'm not mistaken. It doesn't give you an additional 3 years after the 1 year.....it replaces the 1 year for a total of 3.

-Kevin


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

estacionsj said:


> Yes , they nullified the 3 year warranty


No, you used the warranty. One time use.....it's clearly stated in the terms.

-Kevin


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Of course insurance policies exist to create profit for the insurance company, but they also do protect the investment you've made in the equipment. 

My very first TiVo (HR10-250) cost me $1000 at Best Buy and given the newness of the technology and the constant use of a hard drive, I decided to get the extended. The Best Buy employee was very adamant that if anything went wrong, they'd just cut me a gift card and I could spend it on a replacement or whatever I wanted.

When my hard drive started dying years later, it was a fight to get them to honor the warranty, but they finally acquiesced because they no longer sold or repaired the model and couldn't replace it.

It was painful, but ultimately very much worth it. 

Also consider that some credit cards will extend the warranty on a purchase by a year. I've taken advantage of that more than once. Some equipment is just more prone to failure. It's a judgement call.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

dlfl said:


> Compare the two situations (with and without an extended warranty) if you have to have your lifetime TiVo replaced (under warranty) in the period between 90 days and one year after purchase.
> 
> Without extended warranty:
> You have to pay shipping back and $50 for the replacement -- and you do not get a new warranty on the replacement. The lifetime is transferred.
> ...


Your probability of paying the $40 is 100% in the first scenario; in the second, your probability of paying $50 is much, much lower. What rational person would insure against the possibility of paying $50 by spending $40?


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## kbmb (Jun 22, 2004)

ej42137 said:


> Your probability of paying the $40 is 100% in the first scenario; in the second, your probability of paying $50 is much, much lower. What rational person would insure against the possibility of paying $50 by spending $40?


Hasn't the main issue always been the lifetime service? Because it's tied to the hardware, I think most people view the warranty as protection against losing the lifetime amount paid. Yes, I know TiVo has worked with people to transfer on failed units.....but nothing is written down for that so there are no guarantees unless you have the warranty correct?

-Kevin


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## dtremit (Mar 17, 2002)

jonw747 said:


> Also consider that some credit cards will extend the warranty on a purchase by a year. I've taken advantage of that more than once. Some equipment is just more prone to failure. It's a judgement call.


This. My Amex will extend the warranty of anything I purchase on it for a year, and I think their interpretation would be that TiVo's warranty is a year. So that means no replacement cost for the first 90 days, $49 for the remainder of the first year, and then likely $0 for the year after that.

You also have to take into account the pattern and likelihood of failure for the TiVo itself. The failure pattern for most computers -- and that's what a TiVo fundamentally is -- looks like a reverse bell curve, with failures concentrated in the first few months and at about the five year point. Chances are, if it doesn't fail within the first year, it's probably not going to fail in the first three.

On top of that, the most likely item to fail is the hard drive, followed by the power supply. Both are replaceable for less than TiVo's out of warranty fee, and without interrupting lifetime service.

In the end, then, the extended warranty ends up helping most people only in a very unlikely scenario: a failure between months 24 and 36, which is exactly when the system is least likely to fail. Doesn't seem worth it to me.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

dtremit said:


> You also have to take into account the pattern and likelihood of failure for the TiVo itself. The failure pattern for most computers -- and that's what a TiVo fundamentally is -- looks like a reverse bell curve, with failures concentrated in the first few months and at about the five year point. Chances are, if it doesn't fail within the first year, it's probably not going to fail in the first three.


Insurance exists for those cases that fall out of the bell curve, though. If your brand new $1100 Roamio Pro died on day 366 and Amex decided it actually was just a 90-day warranty ... how would you feel?

Manufacturers have basically stripped their warranties down to the bare minimum to reduce cost, which is fine; but it's also fine to pay a little extra to bring that back up to where it really should be in the first place - so you don't feel like you were ripped off by a lemon.

And while many of us can and will fix a bad HD, fan, power supply, etc; many customers can't/won't.

To me it comes down to cost, and the extra $39 wasn't a big deal on my purchase - and if my TiVo happens to die in year 4, you can bet I'll be contacting my credit card company to see if they'll grant me that extra year of coverage. 

Now maybe if I understood what TiVo's repair costs were going to be better, I'd change my mind, but isn't that $50 swap cost (+shipping) after 90 days in the first year just a guess?

If I knew I could get my TiVo repaired and lose none of my content (short of a catastrophic HD failure) at any time for a reasonable price I'd be a pretty happy camper; but I've become too condition to expect the worse when it comes to out of warranty repairs.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dlfl said:


> Compare the two situations (with and without an extended warranty) if you have to have your lifetime TiVo replaced (under warranty) in the period between 90 days and one year after purchase.
> 
> Without extended warranty:
> You have to pay shipping back and $50 for the replacement -- and you do not get a new warranty on the replacement. The lifetime is transferred.
> ...





ej42137 said:


> Your probability of paying the $40 is 100% in the first scenario; in the second, your probability of paying $50 is much, much lower. What rational person would insure against the possibility of paying $50 by spending $40?


But you're not paying the $40 just to insure against paying $50 during the 90-day-to-one-year period. You're also insuring against paying for a replacement box during the remaining two years and paying who-knows-what to get lifetime transferred. This amounts to hundreds of $$. It's unlikely a super promotion deal like the one currently being offered will be available then.

I was just pointing out that even in the worst case (failure between 90 days and one year) you still come out $10 ahead with the extended warranty. Of course you can argue the TiVo won't fail during the extended warranty period at all but that just gets down to whether you want to spend $40 to insure against the risk of failure during that period. I wouldn't try to convince you of that although personally I think it makes sense.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dtremit said:


> This. My Amex will extend the warranty of anything I purchase on it for a year, and I think their interpretation would be that TiVo's warranty is a year. So that means no replacement cost for the first 90 days, $49 for the remainder of the first year, and then likely $0 for the year after that.
> 
> You also have to take into account the pattern and likelihood of failure for the TiVo itself. The failure pattern for most computers -- and that's what a TiVo fundamentally is -- looks like a reverse bell curve, with failures concentrated in the first few months and at about the five year point. Chances are, if it doesn't fail within the first year, it's probably not going to fail in the first three.
> 
> ...


And the extended warranty can help with the resale too. Which is the main reason I usually get them.

If for some reason I decide to get a Bolt, then I will sell my Roamio Pro. Which still has around two years left on the four year warranty from Best Buy. Electronics are typically easier to sell when the buyer knows that it will be covered by a warranty.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

kbmb said:


> Hasn't the main issue always been the lifetime service? Because it's tied to the hardware, I think most people view the warranty as protection against losing the lifetime amount paid. Yes, I know TiVo has worked with people to transfer on failed units.....but nothing is written down for that so there are no guarantees unless you have the warranty correct?
> 
> -Kevin


dfdl asserts in his scenario that lifetime is transferred in both cases. In my experience failure after the manufacturers warranty period of electronics in general and TiVos in particular is so unlikely that you'd come out ahead even if you planned to buy an new TiVo and a new lifetime contract. Having the option to repair and transfer the lifetime for $50 or even $249 just makes the comparison absurd.



dlfl said:


> But you're not paying the $40 just to insure against paying $50 during the 90-day-to-one-year period. You're also insuring against paying for a replacement box during the remaining two years and paying who-knows-what to get lifetime transferred. This amounts to hundreds of $$. It's unlikely a super promotion deal like the one currently being offered will be available then.
> 
> I was just pointing out that even in the worst case (failure between 90 days and one year) you still come out $10 ahead with the extended warranty. Of course you can argue the TiVo won't fail during the extended warranty period at all but that just gets down to whether you want to spend $40 to insure against the risk of failure during that period. I wouldn't try to convince you of that although personally I think it makes sense.


I would correct your statement to: "Only in the best case where your TiVo fails will you come out $10 ahead; in the much more likely case your TiVo does not fail you will spend $40 and get nothing in return."

You spend the $40 up front; there is only a chance that your TiVo will fail, a potential of having to spend the $50. Suppose every other TiVo were to fail; then weighted cost of repair is 50% x $50 = $25. $25 < $40, and so you would expect to *lose* $15 by buying the extended warranty. What do you think the actual probability of your TiVo failing within the extended warranty period is? I can tell you that I have purchased 13 TiVos, and exactly *none* have failed within the period an extended warranty would have covered. Buying an extended warranty is making a very poor wager.



aaronwt said:


> And the extended warranty can help with the resale too. Which is the main reason I usually get them.
> 
> If for some reason I decide to get a Bolt, then I will sell my Roamio Pro. Which still has around two years left on the four year warranty from Best Buy. Electronics are typically easier to sell when the buyer knows that it will be covered by a warranty.


Do you really think it makes it $40 easier to sell? Or that you couldn't sell as quickly by reducing the price $40?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ej42137 said:


> ......
> You spend the $40 up front; there is only a chance that your TiVo will fail, a potential of having to spend the $50. Suppose every other TiVo were to fail; then weighted cost of repair is 50% x $50 = $25. $25 < $40, and so you would expect to *lose* $15 by buying the extended warranty. What do you think the actual probability of your TiVo failing within the extended warranty period is? I can tell you that I have purchased 13 TiVos, and exactly *none* have failed within the period an extended warranty would have covered. Buying an extended warranty is making a very poor wager.
> .........


Aren't you neglecting a couple of things in your weighted cost analysis:
1. Without the extended warranty, if you have a failure after one year you will have to pay much more than $50 for a replacement Tivo and
2. You will have to pay some significant price, usually hundreds of $$, for lifetime on the replacement TiVo
Both these costs are covered by the extended warranty during years 2 and 3.

Granted a HDD failure will only cost you around a $100 for a new drive, and for the base Roamio a power supply failure won't cost much, since it's a wall wart. And replacing either of these is simple and has no effect on the lifetime subscription. I'm starting to agree that the extended warranty for a base Roamio probably is a poor wager.

I was planning to buy the warranty for my refurb lifetime base Roamio just before it reached the 90-day limit. Thanks for talking me out of it!


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

dlfl said:


> Aren't you neglecting a couple of things in your weighted cost analysis:
> 1. Without the extended warranty, if you have a failure after one year you will have to pay much more than $50 for a replacement Tivo and
> 2. You will have to pay some significant price, usually hundreds of $$, for lifetime on the replacement TiVo


Yes, I am neglecting those issues; the scenario put forth was that you could repair a TiVo for $50 or buy an extended warranty for $40, and it was asserted because of that $50 - $40 = $10 profit if your TiVo fails. My point was that doesn't take into consideration the fact that, when you spend $40 your TiVo hasn't yet failed and may not fail during the term of the warranty, so the $50 cost to repair must be multiplied by the likelihood of failure to evaluate the likely financial impact.

My personal experience, and the experiences of several people who have owned significant number of TiVos, leads me to believe that the probability of failure is so low that, even if you didn't consider depreciation, and you were to replace your failures by buying brand new TiVos with undiscounted lifetime contracts, on average you'll still come out ahead doing that instead of buying the extended warranty.

I don't believe the remaining term of a resale TiVo will be worth $40 to a potential buyer, but I don't sell my old TiVos so I don't have any personal experience to back up that assertion.

My personal belief is that it doesn't make sense to insure against small injuries that can be borne by either doing without or making the occasional additional expenditure. If money is really so tight you can't afford to replace a luxury item like a TiVo, you can't afford to be wasting money on extended warranties either.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> ................
> 
> Do you really think it makes it $40 easier to sell? Or that you couldn't sell as quickly by reducing the price $40?


It depends on the buyer. I know for a fact some of the electronics I've sold in the past were only purchased because I had an extended warranty with them. When I sell something like that I want it to sell as fast as possible. I hate waiting around. Items with an extended warranty will typically sell faster, in my experience, since there are typically more interested parties.

I've sold many dozens of electronics with extended warranties over the years. And many more dozens without. There is also less of a chance of returns if the item has a problem if it's covered by an extended warranty. Especially from a place like BestBuy. Since the buyer can just take it to their local BestBuy store.

Also for me as a buyer of a used item, I will typically choose an item with an extended warranty over one that doesn't have one. And will pay a little more because of it too.

Of course most extended warranties are never used. But I have use them plenty of times in the past and know of plenty of other people that have too. But for me I've owned hundreds of electronic devices over the last 30+ years. And the times an item had an extended warranty, and I needed it, I was glad.

I think the most expensive item I ever came out ahead with an extended warranty was a $2k+ video scaler/processor. The extended warranty I purchased saved me many hundreds of dollars. The one I'm really glad I purchased was on a launch HD DVD player. I was able to return it a few years later to BestBuy. Right after the CES when HD DVD dies. And got the full price of $500 back from BestBuy.

My GF had a Vizio TV from Walmart that had issues a couple of years after purchase. She got her full $400 or so back for the TV and also got to keep the TV because the WiFi module was out on the replacement and because it had a small scratch. She was very glad I had her get the extended warranty for around $30 form Walmart.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

ej42137 said:


> Yes, I am neglecting those issues; the scenario put forth was that you could repair a TiVo for $50 or buy an extended warranty for $40, and it was asserted because of that $50 - $40 = $10 profit if your TiVo fails ........


That wasn't the scenario I intended to put forward and certainly isn't a realistic one. Just a failure to communicate, I guess.


ej42137 said:


> My personal experience, and the experiences of several people who have owned significant number of TiVos, leads me to believe that the probability of failure is so low that, even if you didn't consider depreciation, and you were to replace your failures by buying brand new TiVos with undiscounted lifetime contracts, on average you'll still come out ahead doing that instead of buying the extended warranty.


Well that's a good argument but there aren't any facts or statistics to support (or refute) it -- just anecdotal evidence and opinion. I tend to agree however.


e42137 said:


> My personal belief is that it doesn't make sense to insure against small injuries that can be borne by either doing without or making the occasional additional expenditure. If money is really so tight you can't afford to replace a luxury item like a TiVo, you can't afford to be wasting money on extended warranties either.


Also a reasonable argument although by that reasoning a second (e.g., vacation) home, which is a luxury item, should not be insured because you shouldn't have it if you can't affort to replace it. I doubt that contention has much support. And if you tell me a second home isn't a luxury, I'll know who I'm talking to here, Mr. Trump!


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> My personal belief is that it doesn't make sense to insure against small injuries that can be borne by either doing without or making the occasional additional expenditure. If money is really so tight you can't afford to replace a luxury item like a TiVo, you can't afford to be wasting money on extended warranties either.


A 90-day warranty on a product such as this is pathetic, but I'm glad people who don't want a real warranty on the product have the option to opt-out of it and save some money.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> Also for me as a buyer of a used item, I will typically choose an item with an extended warranty over one that doesn't have one. And will pay a little more because of it too.


When I bought my TV from an online store to save some bucks, I was very happy to pay for the extended warranty to cover anything that might come up and to avoid any issues getting the manufacturer's warranty honored.

The risks are even higher dealing with an eBay seller, so, knowing that even if the person is selling you a lemon it will still get fixed by a 3rd party is clearly valuable.


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## chicagobrownblue (May 29, 2008)

DocNo said:


> Actually, it's not a silly comparison. Funny enough, I was talking to my insurance company Friday and they have a personal property rider that has a deductible separate from the main homeowners policy. And it's pretty cheap. And since it can cover a pool of all my electronics, the cost amortization over time may even be better


You pay for the extra cost of this rider year in, year out. Over ten years it adds up. And, as you've noted it has a deductible.

If my 10-year old notebook, 7-year old HDTV and BD player and Roamio Basic would just die, I would love to replace them. No warranty on any of them. I'm just sitting on such and enormous pile of cash that I can afford to replace them.

My Premiere did die 3 months after the Roamio was introduced. Best Buy price matched the $149 price on Amazon and I got a $50 Best Buy gift card to boot. $100 for a new TiVo is sweet and I will admit that I am a lucky guy.



DocNo said:


> Anyway, I would never buy a policy from BestBuy or other store - they are usually pretty hit or miss.


This is one of two problems with extended warranties, not everything is covered. The other is too expensive which you can solve using Square Trade and others.



DocNo said:


> Anyway, my thoughts and experiences with warranties. In general they have been unnecessary, but they did provide *some nice peace of mind* if something had happened - which is what insurance is about. Hedging a small sum against a larger one


A better source of peace of mind is to make sure that the wage earners have sufficient disability and life insurance policies in place. Having $100,000 in cash is also very soothing.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

chicagobrownblue said:


> ....... Having $100,000 in cash is also very soothing.


Eureka! Why didn't I think of that? There's a government furnished plan that provides that, right?


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## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

I feel like I understand and respect all sides of this extended warranty argument, but I don't get all the passion over a $39 item. If someone gets peace of mind from having it, then it's a small price to pay. If you don't believe in them, then don't buy them.

I don't see posts with people arguing so passionately over paying lifetime versus monthly, the worth of buying more expensive accessories like a slide remote, or the value in spending $100's more on 3-6TB hard drives to keep hundreds of hours of shows. And all these items cost more than $39.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

dlfl said:


> Eureka! Why didn't I think of that? There's a government furnished plan that provides that, right?


I'm sure there is, with Obama in charge!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

With the $300 Roamio I'm not sure it's worth it. The two parts of a TiVo most likely to break are the power supply and the HDD, both of which are easily replaced on those units. I bought one for my two Roamio Pros because they cost like $1,100/ea with lifetime and the power supplies aren't as easy to replace. Plus the built in Stream hardware was a bit of an unknown. I did not buy one for my $300 OTA.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> With the $300 Roamio I'm not sure it's worth it. The two parts of a TiVo most likely to break are the power supply and the HDD, both of which are easily replaced on those units. I bought one for my two Roamio Pros because they cost like $1,100/ea with lifetime and the power supplies aren't as easy to replace. Plus the built in Stream hardware was a bit of an unknown. I did not buy one for my $300 OTA.


Usually the cost of an extended warranty is proportional to the cost of the hardware. If TiVo was asking just $11 for the warranty on the OTA, maybe you take it?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

jonw747 said:


> Usually the cost of an extended warranty is proportional to the cost of the hardware. If TiVo was asking just $11 for the warranty on the OTA, maybe you take it?


I might have. But the other points I made still hold true. The power supply being external and the lack of a Stream make the Basic/OTA less likely to fail so that devalues it even more.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

thefisch said:


> I feel like I understand and respect all sides of this extended warranty argument, but I don't get all the passion over a $39 item. If someone gets peace of mind from having it, then it's a small price to pay. If you don't believe in them, then don't buy them.
> 
> I don't see posts with people arguing so passionately over paying lifetime versus monthly, the worth of buying more expensive accessories like a slide remote, or the value in spending $100's more on 3-6TB hard drives to keep hundreds of hours of shows. And all these items cost more than $39.


I agree. It works out to $1.08/month for the three year coverage. Pennsylvania has a $30 scratch off lottery ticket and it is not uncommon to see someone buy 3 or 4 at a time and they are all losers.
I find it ideal if the TiVo has lifetime service on it. I had both of my two year old Premieres replaced recently so the warranty was worth it. I also bought another three year warranty for both TiVos so now they are covered until 2018.


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## thefisch (Jul 25, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> With the $300 Roamio I'm not sure it's worth it. The two parts of a TiVo most likely to break are the power supply and the HDD, both of which are easily replaced on those units. I bought one for my two Roamio Pros because they cost like $1,100/ea with lifetime and the power supplies aren't as easy to replace. Plus the built in Stream hardware was a bit of an unknown. I did not buy one for my $300 OTA.


I think it is smart to consider the cost of the replacement. I would add that you need to consider the cost now as well as the potential replacement cost 1-3 years from now. Perhaps prices will stay the same or they will go back up. Prior to these recent sales the lowest pricing on a roamio basic w/pls was about $450 with the FF code. Some warranties only protect you up to your purchase price and you get a gift card if it breaks for what you paid - and those are usually based on tiered pricing. In this case, it just protects the unit no matter how much it would cost to repair or replace with comparable equipment in the future. Not saying that you will get an upgrade if it fails in 3 years, just that a replacement unit (same or equivalent) with lifetime may cost more in the future than what you paid today.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

dlfl said:


> Also a reasonable argument although by that reasoning a second (e.g., vacation) home, which is a luxury item, should not be insured because you shouldn't have it if you can't affort to replace it. I doubt that contention has much support. And if you tell me a second home isn't a luxury, I'll know who I'm talking to here, Mr. Trump!


Although I did say "*small* injuries", you make a good point. One is going to buy a lot of electronics during one's life, enough so that it can be treated statistically. Almost certainly some will fail, and one will have the opportunity to learn to deal with it. Losing your vacation home in a hurricane is something you don't want to have happen even once. If my stockbroker ever lets me buy one I'll certainly insure it.

Then to, homeowner's insurance isn't the blatant rip-off that is called an extended warranty.



thefisch said:


> I feel like I understand and respect all sides of this extended warranty argument, but I don't get all the passion over a $39 item. If someone gets peace of mind from having it, then it's a small price to pay. If you don't believe in them, then don't buy them.


To me, the practice of selling extended warranties amounts to a fraud on the consumer. When I see people encourage other consumers to be victimized by this fraud it's hard for me to remain quiet.

I also remember quite a lot of heat around the discussion of the slide remote. You can pry my slide remote from my cold, dead hands, if you dare. 



jonw747 said:


> Usually the cost of an extended warranty is proportional to the cost of the hardware. If TiVo was asking just $11 for the warranty on the OTA, maybe you take it?


The money you pay for an extended warranty represents the cost of replacing the hardware times the expected rate of failure during the covered period, plus the profit margin. TiVo is going to send you a refurbished unit which doesn't cost them anything like the retail price. Most significant is the failure rate, being very low for electronic gear, making the profit margin the lion's share of the cost of such coverage.

Because I know the extended warranty is sold at an extreme profit, I would never buy it no matter what the price.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Aren't you neglecting a couple of things in your weighted cost analysis:
> 1. Without the extended warranty, if you have a failure after one year you will have to pay much more than $50 for a replacement Tivo and
> 2. You will have to pay some significant price, usually hundreds of $$, for lifetime on the replacement TiVo
> Both these costs are covered by the extended warranty during years 2 and 3.
> ...


No, tivo transfers the lifetime sub to the repaired box on a paid repair after on year. Been there, done it several times. The ONLY time this does not apply is when the tivo gets so old they have EOLd the model they will not transfer the sub to a newer model. Say if a TivoHD died today they would not transfer to a Premiere or Roamio.

The extended warranty cost ONLY protects against the out of warranty repair cost. Again, been there and done that. First hand experience and it was NOT a one time special deal or consideration. Business as usual and has been Tivo policy for many years. Of course no guarantee that it will always be policy or that tivo will always exist....


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## skypros (May 19, 2015)

I never buy extended warranties. But with my Tivo Roamio Plus with Lifetime... I really think $40 for up to 3 years is a more than fair deal...
What I am to understand..... Is if my DVR goes bad (and I do not have the warranty), I will have to pay $199 to transfer my Lifetime service to another box.... PLUS I will have to buy another DVR. I still have a couple more weeks to decide if I want the extended warranty... But I really think I am going to do it.



ej42137 said:


> Because I know the extended warranty is sold at an extreme profit, I would never buy it no matter what the price.


I really agree with you about extended warranties...... But I don't think Tivo's extended warranty is a Extreme profit center (IMHO).


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> Because I know the extended warranty is sold at an extreme profit, I would never buy it no matter what the price.


Some extended warranties are more honest than others, and if there's a service call involved in the repair, they can potentially save a LOT of money and hassle.

It's always a judgement call, and unfortunately one not always made with all the facts unless the company is very upfront about their out of warranty repair/replacement policy.

Anyway, we don't need to convince each other.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

skypros said:


> I really agree with you about extended warranties...... But I don't think Tivo's extended warranty is a Extreme profit center (IMHO).


Based on my experience with TiVo running, I'm fairly certain the failure rate during the extended warranty period is less than 5%. That means they collect at least $800 for each TiVo that needs a claim, ignoring whatever rate people don't bother to file. How much do you think that refurbished unit costs TiVo?

I don't really blame TiVo; it's found money and they would be shirking their fiduciary duty to their shareholders if they didn't pick it up. But consumers who encourage consumers to buy them are class traitors short-sighted individuals.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

jonw747 said:


> Some extended warranties are more honest than others, and if there's a service call involved in the repair, they can potentially save a LOT of money and hassle.
> 
> It's always a judgement call, and unfortunately one not always made with all the facts unless the company is very upfront about their out of warranty repair/replacement policy.
> 
> Anyway, we don't need to convince each other.


If the extended warranty provides factory-competent service that is otherwise unavailable or has an extreme mark-up, I agree that can be worthwhile, at least with critical items like your automobile or major appliances where repair is more likely than replacement. Very much agree with your point about it being a judgement call in those situations.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ej42137 said:


> If the extended warranty provides factory-competent service that is otherwise unavailable or has an extreme mark-up, I agree that can be worthwhile, at least with critical items like your automobile or major appliances where repair is more likely than replacement. Very much agree with your point about it being a judgement call in those situations.


Autos are one device that I do not purchase extended warranties for. Yet I know several people that add over $1k to the cost of the car to get the extended warranty. I got one once and never used it. And each car since then wouldn't have used it either. But for a car we are talking about something that is over $1k. That's a big difference form paying $40.

Now if I bought expensive cars I could probably get an extended warranty thrown in for free. But I have no desire to spend more than $20K on a car(usually only $15k). Yet many people I know pay more on their car payment than I pay on my mortgage. I like to take the money I save and buy electronic and computer gear. Stuff that I enjoy. I get no enjoyment from a car. But unfortunately it is a necessity.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> Based on my experience with TiVo running, I'm fairly certain the failure rate during the extended warranty period is less than 5%. That means they collect at least $800 for each TiVo that needs a claim, ignoring whatever rate people don't bother to file. How much do you think that refurbished unit costs TiVo?
> 
> I don't really blame TiVo; it's found money and they would be shirking their fiduciary duty to their shareholders if they didn't pick it up. But consumers who encourage consumers to buy them are class traitors short-sighted individuals.


And yet $39 is still a reasonable cost to some of us not to end up in that theoretical <5%.

Let me ask you something, because I simply don't know. I like many customers made our choice without all the facts.

1) Past the one year parts warranty, what would it cost to repair my Roamio Plus?

2) Would I still retain my lifetime?

3) What's the likelihood my recordings would be preserved?

4) What's the likelihood I'd get the same unit back?

5) The $50+shipping number mentioned to repair a unit after 90days but within the first year ... is that firm? Is it guaranteed? Is it in writing somewhere? Does it hold for the high-end models such as the Plus/Pro?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

https://www.tivo.com/legal/extended-warranty-service-agreement
Hi,
I don't know how many of you folks have actually read the Tivo Extended Warranty Service Agreement, but I would suggest you do, it is really not too long and in mostly understandable language.
I found absolutely no mention of "lifetime service" anywhere in the document. What I did find was that if Tivo wanted to stick strictly to the terms of this document, they could easily find some reason to decline almost all claims and since "lifetime service" is unmentioned, by the terms of this agreement, Tivo would not have to reinstate it even if they replace the original device.
It appears, based on anecdotal evidence that in practice and perhaps by policy Tivo does ignore the limits of the actual service agreement, however, this could change at any time IMO.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

After having the power cord pop out of the back of my Basic and apparently be enough to kill it, I got the three year warranty on the new Plus that is replacing it. Normally I wouldn't bother but once bitten...

I'm also stealing a strain relief cord holder off another piece of gear and putting it on the back of the Tivo to keep the @^$#! power cord attached!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DocNo said:


> After having the power cord pop out of the back of my Basic and apparently be enough to kill it, I got the three year warranty on the new Plus that is replacing it. Normally I wouldn't bother but once bitten...
> 
> I'm also stealing a strain relief cord holder off another piece of gear and putting it on the back of the Tivo to keep the @^$#! power cord attached!


I've not run into this problem. Mine are very snug. The only way they will come out is if I pull on them.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> I've not run into this problem. Mine are very snug. The only way they will come out is if I pull on them.


There's pulling, then there is pulling.

I was pulling another cable out of my rats nest of an AV setup and the Tivo power cord came with it. Previous Tivo's with the AC cords would never have come out with the amount of pulling I'm talking about.

Nor would I expect the power cable being removed to be enough to kill the box, but that's when it decided to die.

My replacement Tivo will have a cable clamp and the cable will be secured to it.

Caveat emptor - you can choose to risk it, I won't any more. It's ridiculous that power connectors don't have a locking mechanism on 'em. The network cord does! It's annoying that HDMI doesn't either. Most cable connectors are poorly thought out crap when you get down to it


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

fcfc2 said:


> https://www.tivo.com/legal/extended-warranty-service-agreement
> Hi,
> I don't know how many of you folks have actually read the Tivo Extended Warranty Service Agreement, but I would suggest you do, it is really not too long and in mostly understandable language.
> I found absolutely no mention of "lifetime service" anywhere in the document. What I did find was that if Tivo wanted to stick strictly to the terms of this document, they could easily find some reason to decline almost all claims and since "lifetime service" is unmentioned, by the terms of this agreement, Tivo would not have to reinstate it even if they replace the original device.
> It appears, based on anecdotal evidence that in practice and perhaps by policy Tivo does ignore the limits of the actual service agreement, however, this could change at any time IMO.


The courts tend to favor the consumer in cases such as this. TiVo says they will replace or refund, and any reasonable person would conclude that the service would be included certainly in the case of replacement and possibly in the case of refund.

What scares me in these warranties is when they go on for pages describing what they won't cover or explaining all the reasons they have to not honor the deal. This one looks reasonable.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

DocNo said:


> Nor would I expect the power cable being removed to be enough to kill the box, but that's when it decided to die.
> 
> My replacement Tivo will have a cable clamp and the cable will be secured to it.
> 
> Caveat emptor - you can choose to risk it, I won't any more. It's ridiculous that power connectors don't have a locking mechanism on 'em. The network cord does! It's annoying that HDMI doesn't either. Most cable connectors are poorly thought out crap when you get down to it


Well, electronic equipment is not supposed to die upon loss of power; although the risk does exist.

In most cases it's better that the cable gets kicked out of the device (or the wall) than that for the cable let alone the device itself to become damaged by the stress.

Non-locking connectors do make sense for consumer electronics, but certainly not for industrial or military hardware.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

jonw747 said:


> The courts tend to favor the consumer in cases such as this. TiVo says they will replace or refund, and any reasonable person would conclude that the service would be included certainly in the case of replacement and possibly in the case of refund.
> .........


I'm not happy with any contract that requires going to court to interpret or enforce.

Contracts should not leave major issues like how lifetime subs are handled unmentioned. Establishing a documented clear understanding of such terms on the part of all parties is the primary purpose of contracts.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

jonw747 said:


> In most cases it's better that the cable gets kicked out of the device (or the wall) than that for the cable let alone the device itself to become damaged by the stress.


Other gear I have use cable clamps like these. Simple and effective and my new Tivo will be getting one.

My Tivo is in a cabinet. It's not a laptop on a table with the cord strung in an area where there is traffic and if it gets tripped over it will go flying through the air if the cord doesn't disconnect 

Call me crazy, but performing simple cable management should not be able to remove a power cable from a piece of gear. Especially if it's going to be enough to brick a piece of gear. And who knows - it may have failed eventually even if the power cord never came out - but let me tell you, that sequence of events can really sour your day.


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

dlfl said:


> I'm not happy with any contract that requires going to court to interpret or enforce.
> 
> Contracts should not leave major issues like how lifetime subs are handled unmentioned. Establishing a documented clear understanding of such terms on the part of all parties is the primary purpose of contracts.


I agree it would be better if it were clearly spelled out, but thankfully Tivo has proven to be reasonable enough that I'm not concerned about it.

Having a trustworthy business partner is even better than a solid contract - although having a solid contract is always wise


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

DocNo said:


> Having a trustworthy business partner is even better than a solid contract - although having a solid contract is always wise


This.

Contracts don't matter if the company has your back. Heck, that's actually one reason not to get an extended warranty. If a major flaw popped up in a product out of warranty a great company would just cover it.

It's often those policies and contracts which constrain a customer service rep from doing the right thing. Smart companies foster their long-term customers and look to sustain their reputation. Ever see a company which is constantly receiving and then protesting bad reviews on Amazon or eBay? Even when they're in the right, it still doesn't look good.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

DocNo said:


> Other gear I have use cable clamps like these. Simple and effective and my new Tivo will be getting one.
> 
> My Tivo is in a cabinet. It's not a laptop on a table with the cord strung in an area where there is traffic and if it gets tripped over it will go flying through the air if the cord doesn't disconnect
> 
> Call me crazy, but performing simple cable management should not be able to remove a power cable from a piece of gear. Especially if it's going to be enough to brick a piece of gear. And who knows - it may have failed eventually even if the power cord never came out - but let me tell you, that sequence of events can really sour your day.


Heh, do what you want. I was just trying to explain why the Consumer Electronics industry designs things this way.

Do you have a UPS, btw?

I actually don't. I used to long ago, but battery maintenance was annoying and I ran in to a problem once because the UPS was in the circuit. It just wasn't worth the hassle, but we have buried cable and power is pretty reliable. *knocks on wood*


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## DocNo (Oct 10, 2001)

jonw747 said:


> Do you have a UPS, btw?


Yup. Pretty useless if you can sneeze and the power cord falls out 

Also I find the argument that they designed the current power connector from a safety perspective laughable. The current connector was done for cost, pure and simple and I would wager a tidy sum that the whole force to pull out/safety angle was NEVER discussed - or if it was discussed it was an extremely ancillary and irrelevant data point. I noticed in another thread that only the basic Roamio has an external wall wart power supply. I'll see on the Plus when it arrives - but if it has the traditional AC connector that has been on every previous Tivo I have owned I'll bet it will be many times harder to pull out. Not because of an intentional decision by Tivo per se, but because it's the natural characteristic of that connector vs. the cheap DC power socket/connector used with a wall wart power supply on the Basic.

BTW - the tech support guy I talked with this morning (not a CSR) liked the idea of the cable clamp. Could have just been his personal opinion, or enthusiastic about the idea because of calls/complaints he got. Doesn't mean anything one way or the other - I doubt he will get them to change even if he wanted but it was interesting to compare his reaction to yours


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

DocNo said:


> ..........
> Having a trustworthy business partner is even better than a solid contract - although having a solid contract is always wise





jonw747 said:


> ...... Contracts don't matter if the company has your back.


Contracts still matter even if the parties trust each other. Reasonable parties can still disagree about what's fair. Any issue that is important and can be anticipated is best covered before the deal.


jonw747 said:


> ...... Heck, that's actually one reason not to get an extended warranty. If a major flaw popped up in a product out of warranty a great company would just cover it. .....


Unless, perhaps as a result of the cost to fix the flaw, the company is going bankrupt. Then whether the company is "great" or whether the contract is good will make little practical difference.


jonw747 said:


> It's often those policies and contracts which constrain a customer service rep from doing the right thing. ......


There's a major valid reason companies don't give their CSR's much latitude. They don't trust the CSR's to do what the company thinks is the right thing -- and this distrust is justified in many cases due to the lack of experience and expertise that many CSR's exhibit. The common workaround for this is for the CSR to consult with their supervisor on special cases. TiVo CSR's do this.

That said, I agree trust (or its proxy -- reputation) is the most important thing in a business deal (but not the only important thing). Back in the gilded age deals were made just based on handshakes and a man's honor and reputation were paramount. (Unfortunately deals were sometimes enforced by brute extralegal methods.) Hmm... sounds like our current day drug gangs doesn't it -- but probably they've dispensed with the handshake.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

DocNo said:


> Yup. Pretty useless if you can sneeze and the power cord falls out
> 
> Also I find the argument that they designed the current power connector from a safety perspective laughable. The current connector was done for cost, pure and simple and I would wager a tidy sum that the whole force to pull out/safety angle was NEVER discussed - or if it was discussed it was an extremely ancillary and irrelevant data point. I noticed in another thread that only the basic Roamio has an external wall wart power supply. I'll see on the Plus when it arrives - but if it has the traditional AC connector that has been on every previous Tivo I have owned I'll bet it will be many times harder to pull out. Not because of an intentional decision by Tivo per se, but because it's the natural characteristic of that connector vs. the cheap DC power socket/connector used with a wall wart power supply on the Basic.
> 
> BTW - the tech support guy I talked with this morning (not a CSR) liked the idea of the cable clamp. Could have just been his personal opinion, or enthusiastic about the idea because of calls/complaints he got. Doesn't mean anything one way or the other - I doubt he will get them to change even if he wanted but it was interesting to compare his reaction to yours


I wouldn't like a cable clamp. Then it would be a pain for me to unplug it everytime I take my Roamio Basic to my GFs house. I've performed cable management with my Basics and Minis in place in the past. I have never had the power cable come out.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

All this extended warranty talk has reminded me to get the extended warranty on my refurb Roamio Basic. I don't plan on selling it but it might be making a new home at my GFs house.

If I can just somehow convince her to dump her OLED S3 boxes. I've been trying for years to get them replaced. I offered to replace them when the Premiere launched but she wouldn't go for it. So I'm hoping now I can get her to take that Lifetime Roamio Basic and my extra Mini to replace the S3 boxes. 

Of course then I would need to upgrade her router and also setup a couple of wireless N bridges.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

jonw747 said:


> And yet $39 is still a reasonable cost to some of us not to end up in that theoretical <5%.
> 
> Let me ask you something, because I simply don't know. I like many customers made our choice without all the facts.


I've never bought an extended warranty, so I can only answer these questions based on what has been said here in this thread and elsewhere on TCF. If I'm wrong, I hope someone who has actual first-hand experience will jump in and correct me.



jonw747 said:


> 1) Past the one year parts warranty, what would it cost to repair my Roamio Plus?


$150



jonw747 said:


> 2) Would I still retain my lifetime?


Yes. There might be situation where you have to pay a transfer fee, perhaps when they replace it with a newer model.



jonw747 said:


> 3) What's the likelihood my recordings would be preserved?


Very, very low.



jonw747 said:


> 4) What's the likelihood I'd get the same unit back?


Possible but unlikely. They seem to quickly replace it with a refurb and at some later time somebody might or might not look at it to see if it is worth fixing. I believe they warn you that you won't get your recordings preserved. An extended warranty won't recover your recording any more than paying for repair service.



jonw747 said:


> 5) The $50+shipping number mentioned to repair a unit after 90days but within the first year ... is that firm? Is it guaranteed? Is it in writing somewhere? Does it hold for the high-end models such as the Plus/Pro?


I'm inclined to believe the answers to these questions are in the affirmative, but a better place to ask them would be directly to TiVo.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

If those numbers hold up for the higher end units, then they sound fairly reasonable, but I still have no regrets over spending an extra $39 to get the sort of Warranty I think the device should have come with standard.


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