# WATCH OUT -- Directv very deceptive



## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

*Be careful when adding /replacing a Directv Tivo.* I replaced a Directv Tivo on my account several months ago and was not told that they would require a new commitment. The new box was owned (purchased from the original owner) and the old box was owned.

Now they are trying to stick me with $225 for terminating early (I did not agree to any new service contract). I got tired of paying $70 a month for TV that I really was not watching (200+ is not good value, if you only watch 5 channels beyond your locals it just not worth it).

Hell, I have been with them for more than 5 years now and all of my equipment was owned. I'm glad I got rid of this deceptive company and I am not going to pay them for something that I did not agree to. Needless to say I will never be going back to such a company.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I guess putting some bogus charge like that on my account.... allows them to keep 3 Directv Tivos from being able to ever be connected again. I guess I can't sell them as whole units... but guess what D*, I can still sell them for parts. I'm not paying a dime of that bogus charge.

I guess it makes sense to force customers to stay than to treat them like customers to begin with.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

Strange. I recently replaced a Directv/Tivo unit on my account with another and had no problems at all. Both units are owned by me. Directv has them on the account as owned, and no further commitment was added.

If you want to get rid of the Directv/Tivo units send me a PM. Am interested in whole units, but if you must part them out may be interested to.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Ok, I might take you up on that. I'm going to keep working on Directv to see if I can get the charge removed but it's bullsh** that I have to deal with such an issue. As you said the replacement should not have caused a new commitment. I'd rather be able to sell them so someone else could use them but they are pretty much useless (other than parts) once Directv decides that you ended the account and still owe them (even if it is a bogus charge).

I wonder if you would have the same problem if you canceled your account today. All I know is, they never told me about this commitment... even when I canceled the account about month ago.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

I agree that Direct has become ugly to customers. I wonder if they marked your box as leased and therefore assigned you the 2-yr commitment?


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

"I agree that Direct has become ugly to customers. I wonder if they marked your box as leased and therefore assigned you the 2-yr commitment?"

Thats probally what happened. When you activated the replacement unit, they probally marked it as leased and your New 2 Year contract would of started from that date.

I would get the receiver marked as it should be "Owned" therefore getting the commitment done with.

As for the units, it does not matter if you owe a balance on your account or not, the units can still be added to someone elses account and activated no problems. All fees, balances etc are tied to the Card on the unit. So by adding a New access card, tied to another account, that resolves your problem with not being able to sell them 

Hope you get it sorted tho with Directv


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## j123 (Mar 7, 2002)

wolflord11 said:


> As for the units, it does not matter if you owe a balance on your account or not, the units can still be added to someone elses account and activated no problems. All fees, balances etc are tied to the Card on the unit. So by adding a New access card, tied to another account, that resolves your problem with not being able to sell them


Are you sure about this? Unless something has changed, I thought it was also tied to the RID number of the receiver.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

wolflord11 said:


> "As for the units, it does not matter if you owe a balance on your account or not, the units can still be added to someone elses account and activated no problems. All fees, balances etc are tied to the Card on the unit. So by adding a New access card, tied to another account, that resolves your problem with not being able to sell them


For older non-RID receivers this was true but the newer RID receivers have to have a clean balance before they can be activated.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

RS4 said:


> I agree that Direct has become ugly to customers. I wonder if they marked your box as leased and therefore assigned you the 2-yr commitment?


They did that initially then and I called them just as soon as I found the lease on my bill. They then changed it over to owned (as it should have been). So, it really makes me wonder why I'm getting this crap from them now.

This seems like such a hassle for just changing out from a Hughes SD-DVR40 to a Hughes HR10-250. I only wanted to be able to get my locals in HD. If I had thought even for a minute that it would get me another commitment... I would not have even went to the trouble.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

j123 said:


> Are you sure about this? Unless something has changed, I thought it was also tied to the RID number of the receiver.


Many of the Directv units (Older Ones) do not even have a RID Number. So yes I am very sure


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

rminsk said:


> For older non-RID receivers this was true but the newer RID receivers have to have a clean balance before they can be activated.


Not always true. Depending on the CSR you get it can be done. Otherwise, many of the units out there will be useless once someone has used them, and has an owed Balance. Costwise, its better for Directv to have units on accounts making them money, than to be sitting in closets earning nothing.

But again, it depends on the CSR.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

wolflord11 said:


> Not always true. Depending on the CSR you get it can be done. Otherwise, many of the units out there will be useless once someone has used them, and has an owed Balance. Costwise, its better for Directv to have units on accounts making them money, than to be sitting in closets earning nothing.
> 
> But again, it depends on the CSR.


The CSR can not even activate a RID receiver with a outstanding balance on it. There software will not let them. You have to get the balance cleared up before it will allow them to activate it.


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## Len McRiddles (Dec 21, 2002)

Just called and canceled with them today. Got a great deal from Dish Network, including a free HD DVR and a SD DVR for free. Installation went very smooth.


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## yamato72 (Aug 28, 2003)

I'd put my account on "hiatus" or whatever back in May - doing the S3 with Comcast in the fall hopefully.

Your post got me to worrying, because in March of this year I replaced a busted HDVR2 with one that I got from a friend. I checked my most recent bill and it said "leased receiver." Uh-oh. I know for a fact that a 2-yr service agreement was never discussed when I activated this receiver, but I'm pretty sure I'll have a fight on my hands.

I called today to close my account completely, and sure enough, that subject came up, but the rep wouldn't budge, or let me speak to her supervisor. Basically I have to wait 10 days to see if I get charged.

The rep did admit that where was nothing in writing or recorded that proved I'd been informed of, or had accepted, a service extension. Also, the second-hand receiver was activated with its original card. She told me that it never should've been activated that way.

I'd like to know what you guys think my chances are. I'll post a follow-up when I find out.

peace.


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## sirfergy (May 18, 2002)

I had the exact same thing when I activated my HR10-250 that was given to my by a friend since he didn't need it anymore. No mention 2 year contract. If they charge you, you have to write to their billing disputes address to file a claim. No human can help over the phone.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

magnus said:


> They did that initially then and I called them just as soon as I found the lease on my bill. They then changed it over to owned (as it should have been). So, it really makes me wonder why I'm getting this crap from them now.
> 
> This seems like such a hassle for just changing out from *a Hughes SD-DVR40 to a Hughes HR10-250. I only wanted to be able to get my locals in HD*. If I had thought even for a minute that it would get me another commitment... I would not have even went to the trouble.


While at work Today I started thinking. I had looked at this thread before going to work, and all of a sudden it appeared in my Head. Yes you may very well have a Commitment to Directv, and a cancellation fee. AND it has nothing to do with putting a Owned DVR unit onto your account to replace the old Owned unit.

You mentioned you switched out the SD unit to a HD unit in order to watch your Local Channels in HD. This would of meant changing your Package. This is where the new Two Year Commitment would come into place. If you change your base Package, you will incur a New Two Year agreement.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

wolflord11 said:


> If you change your base Package, you will incur a New Two Year agreement.


It's only related to hardware changes, and then only when DirecTV is providing you something. Changing packages doesn't restart any commitment; it's perfectly acceptable, actually. The commitment is for a Total Choice package -- any package, not one and only one package, hence you can change between Total Choice packages freely without affecting commitments.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Nope, I did not change packages.... I even refused their HD service they offered for 3 months for free. I only wanted HD locals and that worked good enough for me.



wolflord11 said:


> While at work Today I started thinking. I had looked at this thread before going to work, and all of a sudden it appeared in my Head. Yes you may very well have a Commitment to Directv, and a cancellation fee. AND it has nothing to do with putting a Owned DVR unit onto your account to replace the old Owned unit.
> 
> You mentioned you switched out the SD unit to a HD unit in order to watch your Local Channels in HD. This would of meant changing your Package. This is where the new Two Year Commitment would come into place. If you change your base Package, you will incur a New Two Year agreement.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

O.K. Was just checking on things.

So, its back to the Commitment being added for a unit you *own* being added to your account.

If a unit you own is added, then there should not be any commitment added on. But, after reading this Forum topic here Tivo is pulling the same thing:

Commitment to add a Used Tivo Unit.

A used Tivo unit (same as your used Directv/Tivo unit) owned by you not the company added to an account incurs a New 1,2 or 3 Year Commitment.

Now, as far as I was aware a owned unit from Directv incured no new or further commitment. It was simply added to your account under the same Commitment you had. The problem is, yours was put down as leased, hence the new commitment.

Simply get the unit listed as Owned, and the commitment charges should be dropped. if not I would fight them over it, and do not give up until you win!!!

As for Tivo, forcing people into a New commitment for something already owned is down right wrong


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## sirfergy (May 18, 2002)

DirectTV claims activating an HD-DVR requires a 2 year commitment, regardless of whether or not you sign up for HD service.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

DVRs and HD receivers are considered advanced equipment and they carry a 2 year commitment. A standard receiver carries a one year commitment.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I changed boxes well before this went into effect.



sirfergy said:


> DirectTV claims activating an HD-DVR requires a 2 year commitment, regardless of whether or not you sign up for HD service.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

wolflord11 said:


> O.K. Was just checking on things.
> But, after reading this Forum topic here Tivo is pulling the same thing:


I think the difference is that with Tivo the terms are up front... it's not hidden. And you can pick your poison..... meaning that you can decide how long a commitment you want if any... and that will determine your monthly rate.



wolflord11 said:


> Simply get the unit listed as Owned, and the commitment charges should be dropped. if not I would fight them over it, and do not give up until you win!!!


I did have the unit changed from Leased to Owned but somehow I think they are still looking at their original mistake of being leased and that's probably where the charge came into play. I'll get it squared away but it just pisses me off that they think they need to resort to such tactics to keep customers.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

I hear you, but many companies now Days are pulling the same thing. Its a shame really, what ever happened to Customer Service, Satisfying the Customer, the Customer is "always" right.......

Money talks now Days.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Well, how many times has the consumer chosen to play one provider against another, moving from one to the other based on the deal they were offered at that time? They've wised up. When a cable rep showed up at my door with a sweet triple play deal and a buyout from DIRECTV and Verizon DSL, it was with a 3 year commitment. When I got a sweet deal on the HR10 in August 2005, it came with a 2 year commitment, and the rep made sure I understood that. 

OK, the activation of used equipment is more of a grey area. I can see it if it was your equipment prior to deactivation and you're just reactivating, then there shouldn't be a commitment. If it's someone else's prior, then I can see why DIRECTV has the provision that you have to be an existing customer and I can see why they do the commitment because the equipment is new to you.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

bidger said:


> Well, how many times has the consumer chosen to play one provider against another, moving from one to the other based on the deal they were offered at that time? They've wised up. When a cable rep showed up at my door with a sweet triple play deal and a buyout from DIRECTV and Verizon DSL, it was with a 3 year commitment. When I got a sweet deal on the HR10 in August 2005, it came with a 2 year commitment, and the rep made sure I understood that.
> 
> OK, the activation of used equipment is more of a grey area. I can see it if it was your equipment prior to deactivation and you're just reactivating, then there shouldn't be a commitment. If it's someone else's prior, then I can see why DIRECTV has the provision that you have to be an existing customer and I can see why they do the commitment because the equipment is new to you.


With Comcast I can start new service month-to-month and just pay fees to rent equipment, or I can choose to have a commitment, but I get things for it... a discounted subscription price; a guarantee that price won't go up during the commitment period, and the commitment period doesn't magically extend when I want to add or remove outlets or even equipment. And now with the CableCARD situation finally being forced upon cable companies, I can also buy my own receiver (albeit right now only advanced receivers with DVRs) and only pay additional outlet fees and a token amount for the CableCARD device.

DirecTV provides some equipment for free in requiring a commitment, but for others, you have to pay a "lease fee" up front. You're still subject to price increases on everything during your commitment period. If you decide to add equipment, your commitment period restarts. Without an argument, you're even expected to subject yourself to a commitment period adding used equipment to your account or equipment you paid for in full yourself.

On the equipment side - with DVRs at least, long-term DirecTV can compare more favorably to cable since cable has you continuing to pay an additional fee, beyond any outlet fees, for the equipment rental. DirecTV has you pay a lump sum in advance for that equipment, then you're only paying an additional outlet fee from then on.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

dswallow said:


> DirecTV provides some equipment for free in requiring a commitment, but for others, you have to pay a "lease fee" up front. You're still subject to *price increases on everything during your commitment period*. *If you decide to add equipment, your commitment period restarts*. Without an argument, you're even expected to subject yourself to a commitment period adding used equipment to your account or equipment you paid for in full yourself.


Incorrect. I am currently on a 2 Year Commitment, with no price increases during that term. In fact, I am still on an Old Plan Directv no longer offers, and they must abide to it. They do not like it, and try to force you into a New Plan with Commitment, but thats the way it is.

Adding equipment does not mean your commitment restarts. You can add as much equipment as you want to without a New commitment as long as you do not change your Plan for example: Going from SD to HD.

Originally with my 2 year commitment, I had 1 leased unit. I now have 6 owned and no leased units, and my Commitment has never changed.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

wolflord11 said:


> Incorrect. I am currently on a 2 Year Commitment, with no price increases during that term. In fact, I am still on an Old Plan Directv no longer offers, and they must abide to it. They do not like it, and try to force you into a New Plan with Commitment, but thats the way it is.
> 
> Adding equipment does not mean your commitment restarts. You can add as much equipment as you want to without a New commitment as long as you do not change your Plan for example: Going from SD to HD.
> 
> Originally with my 2 year commitment, I had 1 leased unit. I now have 6 owned and no leased units, and my Commitment has never changed.


They don't always do it, but they've raised pricing on old plans before. You'll find out.

As to the commitment change on adding equipment, I think you're wrong and will find otherwise, though they certainly have made exceptions, as they sometimes do if you argue or if the equipment came via a conversation with retention for example. Now if you were buying that additional equipment yourself on the used market, then it shouldn't change your commitment when you activate it, but often enough they do and you have to argue your way out of it.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Len McRiddles said:


> Just called and canceled with them today. Got a great deal from Dish Network, including a free HD DVR and a SD DVR for free. Installation went very smooth.


Okay, I'm glad for you.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

dswallow said:


> They don't always do it, but they've raised pricing on old plans before. You'll find out.
> 
> As to the commitment change on adding equipment, I think you're wrong and will find otherwise, though they certainly have made exceptions, as they sometimes do if you argue or if the equipment came via a conversation with retention for example. Now if you were buying that additional equipment yourself on the used market, then it *shouldn't change your commitment when you activate it*, but often enough they do and you have to argue your way out of it.


Which is the exact problem the OP is having. Why? Because the unit was listed as Leased when it was first added. If it was listed as Owned, then all would be good.

Altho they changed the unit from Leased to Owned, they failed to update everything to reflect this. All will work out.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Maybe this is a stupid question, but if my bill only lists the $5.99 TiVo fee, the $4.99 mirroring fee for my 2nd TiVo, and the cost of my programming package, is it safe then for me to assume that they have my units listed as "owned"? I don't see anywhere on my bill that specifically says either "leased" or "owned."


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## 73cuda (May 21, 2007)

Dawghows, I think that shows that your units are considered owned. That's the way mine were listed until the last bill. As I stated in another thread, lightning killed one of my dvr40s and when I told D* about it they said they would send me another TiVo unit completely free. I did not even ask for this, it was the rep's idea to send one for free.

I thought this was great, they sent me a R10 and it's working fine but, My last bill shows it as being leased. Nothing about a lease was ever said or discussed and they also just sent me a empty box to use to send (MY) dead dvr40 back to them.
This return of my old unit was never discussed either. I also had a voice mail from D* yesterday asking why I had not returned the dead unit !

What do you all think about this ? Anyone else had this sort of problem before ?


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## or270 (Feb 4, 2006)

Strange had problems with my Hughes DVR40, so they sent me and R15 said there are no more Tivo's. also they did not want the old one back.
Activated the R15 and it showed up as leased, called the access card department they quickly change it to owned with no questions.

PS. I have the protection plan.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Directv is the worst company that I have ever dealt with.

They just stole the $225 that they claim I owe them. Took it right from my credit card that I was using to make the monthly payment. I have been manually making the payments for years now (it is not on automatic payments). I have not authorized any automatic payments to them.

I do not see how a company that would do such a thing could still be in business. That is just flat out STEALING and I am working with my credit card company to remove the bogus charge.

Obviously, Directv has some major issues with their treatment of customers. Do they really think that they will EVER get a customer back by doing something like that? Do they really not care?

------------------
I added the poll to see if anyone would be willing to deal with a company like that even if they eventually refunded the money back. In my book, it's stealing as they were not authorized to take the money from my account and are clearly being deceptive. Heck, they only sent me a message last week saying that I owe them this charge and I called them with my concerns. What ever happened to waiting to make sure you have things before you go off and do something stupid like that?


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## Porky77354 (Jul 6, 2007)

I really wish DirecTV would just go out of business, because the way they treat their customers is just beyond compare. I am still fighting with them about a box I bought, whose owner has an outstanding balance. I have never been treated so poorly by any company in my life. I can't get them to comprehend that the box does not owe them any money, the other customer does. An inaminate object cannot possibly owe them money. I have filed complaints with the BBB and AG. 

I still am waiting for someone - anyone - to show me contractual language that allows them to do this. I am still waiting. I have touched base with a lawyer, and she said it would have to explicitly be in the contract, and even then could be found to be illegal. Furthermore, she called them an evil, evil, company that is one of the worst she has ever seen. How do they stay in business treating people this way?


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## Porky77354 (Jul 6, 2007)

This is the only thing I can find in their contract regarding transfer of ownership:

(k) Transfer of Receiving Equipment. We consider you to be responsible for, and the recipient of our programming on, any Receiving Equipment you own. You are liable for charges incurred in the use of your Receiving Equipment by others until you notify us of a transfer. Leased Receiving Equipment may not be transferred.


Where does that state I can be charged for someone else's account?


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

DirecTV can refuse to activate any receiver they choose. Just because you own the receiver does not in any way guarantee you the right to receive D*'s signal. The reason for this is sound, when D* was selling receivers thru electronics outlets. The purchase was heavily subsidized by D*, i.e. they sold them at a loss in order to get new customers. If someone buys the receiver, runs up a bill on it and then refuses to pay, D* suffers a loss on the unit. D* refuses to allow a dead beat former customer to make money on the receiver by not allowing anyone to activate it until the balance is paid. They do not need contractual language to refuse to activate the unit. They don't have to sell you their signal period.

It seems to me that your issue is with the former owner of the receiver and not DirecTV. If that person sold it to you without informing you it had a prior balance on it, they have purported a fraud and you need to get your money back from them. If you look at used receivers on eBay, the majority of the auctions will either list a RID number or say it is available via eMail so that you can call D* and verify there is no existing balance. It is widely known that D* will not activate a receiver until that bill is paid in full.


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## bobsbigboy3000 (Jun 10, 2005)

I just swapped a dead philips with a hughes box I had laying around Sunday and they didn't make me commit to an additional 2 years. I had read this posts prior and I was ready for battle, but never had to draw my big guns.


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## durl (Dec 1, 2005)

bobsbigboy3000 said:


> I just swapped a dead philips with a hughes box I had laying around Sunday and they didn't make me commit to an additional 2 years. I had read this posts prior and I was ready for battle, but never had to draw my big guns.


It's always good to be prepared.

From what I've seen, there are many negative posts on boards where the whole story is not being told and the bad guy is always the evil, "we-hate-our-customers-but-manage-to-stay-in-business-anyway" corporations.

In full disclosure, I've been a Directv customer for almost 10 years now and have never had a negative experience with them through 2 self-installs, one move, 2 upgrades, and one dead HR10-250 (which was replaced for free).


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

My only question in the comments is:

What do you/DirecTV consider a huge balance? Lately (last 2 years) they have been pretty good about calling when my bill hasn't been paid and the due date is within 7 days.

So how much money and how far past due are we talking about here? My monthly bill is less than $72 for 3 TV's and the DVR fee. I don't buy PPV's that often (3 over a 10 year period). Did the receiver purchased have a ton of unpaid PPV's or something? even at the highest level of service, I would imagine service will be interrupted within 7 days of the due date, no?


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

Never had any problems with Directv. This is one of very few companies I can say about that.

Tivo on the other hand, I will not even go there.

Every company has its good and bad points. When you find a good one, stick with it. At first they may be a little more expensive than others, but later on down the road, you may be surprised


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## rborden (Dec 31, 2004)

magnus said:


> Directv is the worst company that I have ever dealt with.
> 
> They just stole the $225 that they claim I owe them. Took it right from my credit card that I was using to make the monthly payment. I have been manually making the payments for years now (it is not on automatic payments). I have not authorized any automatic payments to them.


Read your contract. Section 5 paragraph e:
(e) Payment Upon Cancellation. You acknowledge that you have provided your credit or debit card account information to us. You understand that you will incur fees and charges as a result of your receipt and use of Service and/or Receiving Equipment, and may incur early cancellation fees and/or equipment non-return fees (as specified in any lease, programming or other service commitment agreement you entered into in connection with obtaining Receiving Equipment). By giving us your credit or debit card account information, you authorize us to apply this method of payment, in accordance with applicable law, to satisfy any and all amounts due upon cancellation.


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## or270 (Feb 4, 2006)

cowboys2002 said:


> My only question in the comments is:
> 
> What do you/DirecTV consider a huge balance? Lately (last 2 years) they have been pretty good about calling when my bill hasn't been paid and the due date is within 7 days.
> 
> So how much money and how far past due are we talking about here? My monthly bill is less than $72 for 3 TV's and the DVR fee. I don't buy PPV's that often (3 over a 10 year period). Did the receiver purchased have a ton of unpaid PPV's or something? even at the highest level of service, I would imagine service will be interrupted within 7 days of the due date, no?


Well I have gone 2 months and had a $280.00 balance before it got close to being shutoff. And if there was any commitment left that would be adding on.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

That's fine but I did not agree to any commitment and I do not believe that it applies in my situation. I only changed boxes and both boxes were owned. It never should have been put on my account as a lease.

Anyway, I am back from vacation now and should be able to call D* again to try and get this squared away. In any case I am disputing the charge and will take action against them.



rborden said:


> Read your contract. Section 5 paragraph e:
> (e) Payment Upon Cancellation. You acknowledge that you have provided your credit or debit card account information to us. You understand that you will incur fees and charges as a result of your receipt and use of Service and/or Receiving Equipment, and may incur early cancellation fees and/or equipment non-return fees (as specified in any lease, programming or other service commitment agreement you entered into in connection with obtaining Receiving Equipment). By giving us your credit or debit card account information, you authorize us to apply this method of payment, in accordance with applicable law, to satisfy any and all amounts due upon cancellation.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

How do you know that you won't be faced with this problem? It was only when I closed my account that I found out that they were sticking me with the bogus commitment.



bobsbigboy3000 said:


> I just swapped a dead philips with a hughes box I had laying around Sunday and they didn't make me commit to an additional 2 years. I had read this posts prior and I was ready for battle, but never had to draw my big guns.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

And.... there will always be people who say that it has never happened to me, so it can't possibly be true. 



durl said:



> From what I've seen, there are many negative posts on boards where the whole story is not being told and the bad guy is always the evil, "we-hate-our-customers-but-manage-to-stay-in-business-anyway" corporations.
> 
> In full disclosure, I've been a Directv customer for almost 10 years now and have never had a negative experience with them through 2 self-installs, one move, 2 upgrades, and one dead HR10-250 (which was replaced for free).


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## 73cuda (May 21, 2007)

Well, I called DTV today and nicely informed the girl at DTV that I never agreed to lease anything and that my previous DVR40 had been purchased at BestBuy years ago.

She stated that their records show that I did not buy it that it had been leased from them ! ( my wife and I remember the day we bought it ) I told her several times that they were wrong and she said that I must send them (MY) old DVR40 "back" to them or I would be CHARGED for it. WTF  

So to sum it up, I some how have to find proof that I purchased it from BestBuy !
We are 100% positive that we did purchase it, it was a big day for us, we upgraded from the SA and were getting dual tuners  

I'm not sure I can find any receipt or proof years later, I thought BB might have some record based on the serial number ???

This is crazy


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

73cuda said:


> Well, I called DTV today and nicely informed the girl at DTV that I never agreed to lease anything and that my previous DVR40 had been purchased at BestBuy years ago.
> 
> She stated that their records show that I did not buy it that it had been leased from them ! ( my wife and I remember the day we bought it ) I told her several times that they were wrong and she said that I must send them (MY) old DVR40 "back" to them or I would be CHARGED for it. WTF
> 
> ...


If the manufacturing date and/or when you first added it to your account predates DirecTV even offering a lease option, it should be pretty hard for them to claim you leased it.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

Lesson to all.

When adding a unit that you own, make sure it is listed as Owned and not Leased. The minute it is listed as leased, then a New Commitment will start, and you will get hit with early cancellation fees and that, if you cancel within the commitment timeframe.

Also, if a unit is listed as leased, then Directv will want it sent back to them, or they will go ahead and charge your CC for the unit.

Its unfortunate, but sometimes this happens. Fight back, and you will win.

As for those that say it will never happen, the same thing just happened to my Mother in Law. But, after fighting Directv for 2 Months, she got all the money returned to her CC.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

I can't believe DirecTV has the audacity to treat its customers this way!?!?! Don't let the bastards get you down! Fight the Good fight! Vive la resistance!!!


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I do not think anyone wants to be treated this way and some of us can't afford to have money stolen from us. So, if you're trying to be sarcastic then maybe you should think about the day something like this would happen to you and possibly refrain from acting like this.



parzec said:


> I can't believe DirecTV has the audacity to treat its customers this way!?!?! Don't let the bastards get you down! Fight the Good fight! Vive la resistance!!!


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

Directv never "stole" your money as such. It is in the Commitment terms that if you cancel and do not return a Leased Unit, Directv can charge your CC for the amount of the unit.

Any company is the same. If you lease something, cancel and do not return the item, they will charge you for the unit.

The bottom line is your unit was listed as leased, and legally they have every right to charge you. When you got the unit changed from leased to owned, they should of also removed the commitment term and fees, but they did not.

In the end it should all work out, its just a pain in the rear I know. Keep up the fight and all will be well


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

magnus said:


> I do not think anyone wants to be treated this way and some of us can't afford to have money stolen from us. So, if you're trying to be sarcastic then maybe you should think about the day something like this would happen to you and possibly refrain from acting like this.


No, I'm on your side. I think this is dispicable behavior on the part of DirecTV. I was fired up about it after reading all the posts and tried to express my feelings with a touch of humor,but I was serious.

The unbalanced power in "contract negotiations" with corporations is really becoming a serious problem for consumers. The contracts are completely one sided and allow unilateral changes in terms by the business during the contract period without allowing the same flexibility to the consumer. Companies also have the power to report you to credit agencies for non-payment of disputed termination fees, and the onus is on the consumer to correct any discrepencies, which others have pointed out can take hours, days and months. I personally would like to see some regulatory oversight on the use of these oppressive contracts. Until then, people really do need to revolt against the corporations that are involved in these practices.


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## Carlton Bale (Dec 17, 2001)

After reading this post, I checked my account. Sure enough, the second HR10-250 that I own and added to my account in Feb 2007 showed up as leased. Also, I'm now in a 2-year contract with DirecTV and I was never informed of a contract extension.

Actually, I didn't even add a receiver to my account; I replaced a failed DSR6000 receiver (which I own) with a HR10-250 (which I also own).

I was casually thinking of getting two S3 units and dropping DirecTV in favor of Comcast. The fact that DirecTV purposefully made a "mistake" during activation and claimed lease ownership of my receiver upsets me. The fact that they bound me to a 2-year contract of which I was never informed and to which I never agreed infuriates me. I'm now ready to switch to Comcast, regardless of price. I'm going to try to get the 2-year commitment removed first, but will pursue other options if necessary.


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## 73cuda (May 21, 2007)

wolflord11 said:


> Directv never "stole" your money as such. It is in the Commitment terms that if you cancel and do not return a Leased Unit, Directv can charge your CC for the amount of the unit.
> 
> Any company is the same. If you lease something, cancel and do not return the item, they will charge you for the unit.


I agree with you, *IF* I had leased my equipment from them.

I really don't feel like taking the time to fight and argue with them about this right now, there's so many more important things going on I think I'll just send in *MY * old dvr40 and then pay close attention to my bills from them from now on.

I'm really suprised that a company can get away with things like this, I mean where they do things and it is up to you (us) to prove you (we) are in the right.

Oh well


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

73cuda said:


> I agree with you, *IF* I had leased my equipment from them.
> 
> I really don't feel like taking the time to fight and argue with them about this right now, there's so many more important things going on I think I'll just send in *MY * old dvr40 and then pay close attention to my bills from them from now on.
> 
> ...


Call the BBB and write your state attorney generals office. Individually, there is not much anyone can do about unscrupulous business practices, but if enough people complain - perhaps the BBB or state offices will put some pressure on DTV.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Here is an update:

CSR#1
Wife called Directv today and spent about an hour speaking to CSR. She asked, where it is in customer agreement where replacing a unit with another one that you purchased would incur a commitment? Do you have anything in writing from me stating that I agreed to another commitment? Do you have a recording where I gave permission for another commitment? The CSR could not find anything contractually and further stated that our last bill and account shows nothing about having any commitment whatsoever. She then put my wife on hold... never to return. My guess is she got worried that she had said too much.

CSR#2 
So, she calls Directv on the cell phone and speaks to another CSR. This one informs her that she will need to write to Directv (Billing Disputes Department) to get the money back. She says that they can't do anything over the phone (someone else already posted this but I thought it was crazy). 

So, basically they can quickly steal your money and make you wait months to get it back. 

Also, one other item of interest... I can no longer see any of my bills online. So, I can't show where I replaced the receiver and where it showed up as leased when it was not. How convenient is that?


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## Carlton Bale (Dec 17, 2001)

73cuda said:


> I think I'll just send in *MY * old dvr40 and then pay close attention to my bills from them from now on.


Why don't you just send back the leased unit and get a used DVR40 off of Ebay? That way, you don't have a leased unit on your account to worry about.


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## vigfoot (Dec 1, 2003)

imho, DTV's customer service has always been shaky. i've had some things go smoothly, other things not quite so.

my initial install, done by a Pegasus (!) guy was excellent. it was no easy deal and he did it right. i did pay for it, but it was worth the price.

on the other hand, my niece had a nightmare installation, which, 2 years later, is still unresolved re: payment from DTV for damages done to her house.

i've had to keep after them to get rebates while at other times such things have been no problem.

most recently, they overcharged me when i suspended my account and so i show a $40 credit, which, of course, cannot be refunded unless and until i close my account. it will be applied to my bill when i resume my service. not quite right, in my mind. their error, my money, i want it back. let me add that the first CSR gave me the correct amount to send in, which i did, but then i was told a week later i had to send in more, which i did. turns out the first CSR was correct.

oh well....my commitment will expire by the time i'm ready to suspend the account again next april. we'll see what my options are then.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

What amazes me about this is You can add a poll way after the fact  I had no idea. Look out happy hour you are about to get 300 polls  Just kidding  

In regards to the Op I sympathise with you. it sucks to get a charge you did not expect. Try and say you can no longer get direct sight to the sat. I have heard some say they waive the cancel fee in that instance.


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## Billy Bob Boy (Jul 25, 2004)

magnus said:


> Here is an update:
> 
> CSR#1
> Wife called Directv today and spent about an hour speaking to CSR. She asked, where it is in customer agreement where replacing a unit with another one that you purchased would incur a commitment? Do you have anything in writing from me stating that I agreed to another commitment? Do you have a recording where I gave permission for another commitment? The CSR could not find anything contractually and further stated that our last bill and account shows nothing about having any commitment whatsoever. She then put my wife on hold... never to return. My guess is she got worried that she had said too much.
> ...


Dont feel too bad. One time bellsouth accidently charged my bank account 400 dollars when they corrected the mistake they did NOT put 400 back in my account they gave it back in monthly credits  Talk about a major screwwwgee by a big company :down:


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## yamato72 (Aug 28, 2003)

Followup to my tail of woe....

I posted here last week about calling to cancel my account, and how I was informed of the early termination, etc., even though I had added a used receiver to my account.

Today I was charged the termination fee, about $200. So I called DirecTV back like I'd been told and of course got no sympathy. The rep told me that any addition of hardware, leased or otherwise, starts a 2-year contract, and that it was too bad for me (my words, not his) if I'd never read my service agreement. He did say that the Account Management department still had my case.

I thought for sure that I could fight this since they should have a history on the reciever and access card (the access card even still had a PPV on it from the last guy!). The rep argued with me over everything, which was pointless, since he said there was nothing he could do, only "Account Management" (the department without a telephone, it seems) could do anything.

It's pretty sad that a company would be so deceptive about the 2-year commitment, and feel that charging a fee is worth alienating a customer.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

yamato72 said:


> [...] and feel that charging a fee is worth alienating a customer.


There's minimal downside to charging the fee to or otherwise screwing with someone who decided they didn't want to be a customer anymore. After all, what're you gonna do? Cancel?


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

That's probably true for the most part. However, If I were to get to the Fall season and for some reason decided that I really have to have Directv back then they closed the door on that possibility by screwing with me.

Not to mention, I would normally have recommended Directv to my friends and so word of mouth is going to get you customers or cause you to lose them.



dswallow said:


> There's minimal downside to charging the fee to or otherwise screwing with someone who decided they didn't want to be a customer anymore. After all, what're you gonna do? Cancel?


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## gilliane (Jun 3, 2002)

I'm very glad I signed on here today. I replaced a receiver with one I bought from a store online about a year ago, and because I get my bill online and pay it automatically (and the charge has always been right), I had never looked at the bill so had no clue that it had been marked down as leased. I just spent about 20 minutes with three different reps but they now say it has been changed to owned. I guess I will have to wait until my next bill to see if they actually did it.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Unfortunately, you will never know if they have you down for a commitment because of their mistake on the lease.

It sure would be nice if they had something on your bill telling you when your commitment was over (or even that you have a commitment). This really should be required.... for full disclosure (as someone else posted here).



gilliane said:


> I'm very glad I signed on here today. I replaced a receiver with one I bought from a store online about a year ago, and because I get my bill online and pay it automatically (and the charge has always been right), I had never looked at the bill so had no clue that it had been marked down as leased. I just spent about 20 minutes with three different reps but they now say it has been changed to owned. I guess I will have to wait until my next bill to see if they actually did it.


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## vigfoot (Dec 1, 2003)

to avoid a cancellation fee, would the following scenario work?

you call D and tell them your DVR broke and you have a used one to replace it.

then you cancel and send them the broken unit.

then you sell the good one on ebay.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

I wonder how many people have or will be charged this fee for DVR units that are truly owned and should not extend the contract period? It looks like a classic example of "Unfair and Deceptive Trade Practices" a cause of action permitting the awarding of treble damages and attorney fees. It seems there might be some money to be made - by both claimaint and attorney - if there are enough people that have been victim to this tactic. Now, I normally think calling for a lawsuit is a huge overreaction, but this does seem to be especially eggregious behavior on the part of DirecTV. Is there anyway to estimate how many people have been wrongfully charged the termination fee?


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

vigfoot said:


> to avoid a cancellation fee, would the following scenario work?
> 
> you call D and tell them your DVR broke and you have a used one to replace it.
> 
> ...


Turnabout is Fair Play


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## Carlton Bale (Dec 17, 2001)

One important fact here is that we were never charged any extra money. You either pay the monthly $4.99 leased receiver fee or the $4.99 second receiver mirroring fee. The problem is that DirecTV wants the leased equipment back after the contract is terminated, and even if they don't really own it, "too bad."


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## tlrowley (Jun 10, 2004)

Carlton Bale said:


> After reading this post, I checked my account. Sure enough, the second HR10-250 that I own and added to my account in Feb 2007 showed up as leased. Also, I'm now in a 2-year contract with DirecTV and I was never informed of a contract extension.


Stupid question - where would I see if my HR10-250 is showing up as leased or owned? We reactivated it last month, after being deactivated for about 6 months. It was/is owned, and we confirmed on the activation phone call that there would be no new charges for activating equipment that had been on the account previously, but y'all have got me paranoid 

I'm looking at my account online, and I'm not seeing anything about a commitment/lease, but I'm not sure I'm looking the in right place.

We're going to reactivate a 2nd owned HR10-250, and I want to make sure that things are correct before I roll the dice again.

Thanks,
Tracey


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## or270 (Feb 4, 2006)

Owned receivers show up as - Additional Receiver - Charge on your bill.
Leased receivers show - Leased Receiver and there maybe a sales tax charge also.


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## tlrowley (Jun 10, 2004)

or270 said:


> Owned receivers show up as - Additional Receiver - Charge on your bill.
> Leased receivers show - Leased Receiver and there maybe a sales tax charge also.


Cool - I'm seeing "Additional Receiver" - on to the next one.

Thanks for clarifying,
Tracey


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Many years ago Blockbuster was the only game in town. They stuck it to me with late fees. All of the complaining and even a lawsuit did not change them. Then Netflix showed up. I haven't been back to Blockbuster since. I have a long memory regarding companies that gouge me when WMBTOPCITBWTNTALI (We may be the only phone company in town but we try not to act like it) . ATT is coming to Missouri with fiber, don't know exactly when, but I welcome the competiton to Direct and Charter.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Here is an update:

CC company has issued a provisional refund. They asked if it was for goods or a service. The basic understanding that I got from them was that Directv can't do this because I do not have their equipment and the charge was a commitment fee (a bogus one at that). Anyway, we'll see what happens next.


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## Cmmsh (Jan 2, 2007)

FYI, *ANY *receiver activated (whether you bought it or not) after March 2006 is considered leased.

See this from another forum (and BTW, I AM NOT saying I agree with this practice, rather just inputting this blog):



> Directv Inc. has announced that they are migrating to an equipment lease only platform *beginning March 1, 2006 *in order to help reduce individual subscriber acquisition costs and increase subscriber retention. This will have an impact on new subscribers in that they will never own their equipment but will instead pay a monthly rental fee for as long as they subscribe to Directv. This model is identical to the cablevision industry, which has rented its converters and decoders to its subscribers, which is extremely lucrative over the long run.
> 
> The upside to this new plan is that it will allow customers to enjoy the latest technologies such as MPEG4 HDTV locals as well as high definition DVR's much more cost effectively as they will not be required to pay $800-$1000 for the special decoder. It will also allow future equipment upgrades and as well receiver repairs are all covered in the monthly lease. The downside is that subscribers over the long run may pay in rental fees much more than the receiver is worth. Additionally, the receiver will remain the property of Directv and the subscriber will bear the responsibility of keeping it in good condition and must be returned to Directv upon termination of their subscription.
> 
> ...


This being said, I activated an HR10-250, and while they recently changed it to owned after I upgraded to HR20 DVR (which they gave me for free), it originally said it was a lease.

And yes, I had to incur another two-year commitment, but I agreed to it. THEY MUST inform you to add to your previous commitment.


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## spudly (Sep 19, 2001)

magnus said:


> Unfortunately, you will never know if they have you down for a commitment because of their mistake on the lease.
> 
> It sure would be nice if they had something on your bill telling you when your commitment was over (or even that you have a commitment). This really should be required.... for full disclosure (as someone else posted here).


*Magnus is correct.*

I have been a DTV subscrber is 2000. I bought to DSR6000 in '01 and got a 5 yr extended warranty through CC then (for $25). Anyhow last summer the hard drive kicked on the unit and was ultimately replaced with an R10. When the unit was activated it DirecTV tagged it as 'leased'. A phone call or two rectified the problem to and was reverted back to 'owned' (since this was a warranty replacement from my prior owned box). No biggie.

Clearly I was under no programming commitment as I customer since 2000, and while I have no intention of leaving DirecTV for a variety of reason, after reading this thread I was curious so I contacted DTV. Again this was purely a proactive measure to after reading this thread to ensure my account was "clean and green". I emailed DTV through the customer service link- I specifically emailed as I wanted a record of the exchange in writing. This is the response I just received.

_Thanks for writing about your DIRECTV account. I can see that you've been with us since 2000 and we would like you to know how much we appreciate your loyalty with us!

Upon further review, your annual programming commitment ends on 09/24/08. This commitment started when you upgraded your system way back 09/24/06 _

I have since replied to them with more details and asking them to correct this mistake ASAP. I'm curious if this is going to end up being a big fight or not, especially in light that I don't have the need or desire to abandon my lifetime TiVo and NFL Sunday Ticket!


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

dswallow said:


> you decide to add equipment, your commitment period restarts.


That was not the case for me. I was already in a 1 commitment and then activated a HD_Tivo which carried a 2 year commitment. They basically just added another year on to the existing commitment I had.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

94SupraTT said:


> That was not the case for me. I was already in a 1 commitment and then activated a HD_Tivo which carried a 2 year commitment. They basically just added another year on to the existing commitment I had.


What was the remaining period of your original commitment... about a year?


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

dswallow said:


> What was the remaining period of your original commitment... about a year?


Actually about 4 months.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

94SupraTT said:


> Actually about 4 months.


Have you actually confirmed anything regarding this? Because DirecTV normally never extends a commitment in that manner; you just start a 1 or 2 year commitment beginning on whatever date you do something for which they want a commitment.


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## 94SupraTT (Feb 17, 2005)

dswallow said:


> Have you actually confirmed anything regarding this? Because DirecTV normally never extends a commitment in that manner; you just start a 1 or 2 year commitment beginning on whatever date you do something for which they want a commitment.


Yes I have. I assumed they would start a new committment. I even went so far to ask what my previous end date for the last commitment was and then what the new one was.


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## spudly (Sep 19, 2001)

As a follow up to my own post, DirecTV did add a 2 year commitment my account when they _erroneously_ marked one of my receivers as leased as opposed to owned. (While they corrected they lease/owned issue they kept my 2 yr commit).

After a short volley of emails alerting them of this mistake, I do have in writing that should I chose to terminate my relationship that I will not be subject to any fees. (Ironic that I highly doubt I would jump, but it was the principal).

So for anyone who has had them mistakenly had the same thing happen, I strongly suggest you contact them via email and get it it resolved and in writing.

Regards,
Glenn



spudly said:


> *Magnus is correct.*
> 
> I have been a DTV subscrber is 2000. I bought to DSR6000 in '01 and got a 5 yr extended warranty through CC then (for $25). Anyhow last summer the hard drive kicked on the unit and was ultimately replaced with an R10. When the unit was activated it DirecTV tagged it as 'leased'. A phone call or two rectified the problem to and was reverted back to 'owned' (since this was a warranty replacement from my prior owned box). No biggie.
> 
> ...


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

An update:

Directv sent me a bill today because my credit card company reversed the charges. It's funny how quickly they can send you a bill but they sure as hell can't work with you when you call on the phone to get things straightened out. This could have easily been worked out over the phone but they just would not listen about the commitment. 

Directv keeps stating over and over that it's in the agreement but a lot of what they are saying is no where to be found. It seems that this agreement is just one sided as hell.

Actually, Directv owes me $14.95 because I closed my account early in the month and they had prorated the amount and showed me as having a credit (until the bogus cancellation fee ofcourse). Maybe I should send them a bill.... it would have just as much chance of getting paid as their bill to me.


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## 73cuda (May 21, 2007)

Well here's the latest for me with DTV...

To recap: I had a dvr40 that I bought from bestbuy several years ago and was recently killed by a nearby lightning strike. I called DTV and told them to discontinue service to that unit and I'm going to buy another dvr40 used, DTV said they would send me another TiVo unit for "free", I said for free ? and the rep said completely free, but couldn't promise what model it would be.

They sent me a R10, I eprommed and zippered it and was happy. then I got a empty box from DTV ??? Then I got a phone message from them saying to send them "their" old dvr40 unit back.

Now, my bills show a leased dvr (my old bills before this do not show anything leased) and my last bill says that I owe DTV $470.00 for a HDdvr !!!!!!!

I do OWN a Hr20-700s that I bought from a local retailer but I only tried it out for a couple of weeks and couldn't see the 119 bird and really missed the real TiVo sw so I cancelled service for it and put it back in its' box and put it away.

So now it looks like I have to argue about the fact I never had a leased receiver and never agreed to lease the R10 and I don't owe them the old dead dvr40 back and I certainly do not owe them $470.00 for a HDdvr. WTF

Oh and BTW, now the R10 keeps saying "searching for satellite signal in 2" even though I can switch coax's and get full signal from either one on sat1 (a story for another thread)

Forgive my long summary but I'm going to copy and paste most of this to an email to DTV and thought some of you might want to know the crazy/illegal crap they're trying to pull on me.

Later


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

73cuda said:


> I do OWN a Hr20-700s that I bought from a local retailer but I only tried it out for a couple of weeks and couldn't see the 119 bird and really missed the real TiVo sw so I cancelled service for it and put it back in its' box and put it away.


I'm not sure it's that straightforward to "own" an HR20-700 as that model came out after DirecTV changed to the "all receivers are leased" model. The price you paid for the HR20 is considered by DirecTV merely to be a prepaid lease fee on top of the additional $4.99/month lease fee. You can convert a leased receiver to be an owned receiver upon payment of additional money, presumably the $470 they billed you.


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## 73cuda (May 21, 2007)

Well that's not good news, I paid about $400.00 for the Hr20 and neither the retailer or DTV said anything about this, ever.

Does that seem to be the right amount if I were to want to own it ? $870.00
Seems extremely high to me.


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## Marc (Jun 26, 1999)

Yeah, that sounds about right, all things considered. DirecTV is offering the HR20 pretty much to anyone at $299, and that's a lease price. (Many have been successful at getting the HR20 for free, again leased, but that's a negotiation issue.) That makes your $400 retail price seem close enough.

The HR10-250 when it first came out had a retail price of $999. Obviously, that would otherwise be excessive by today's standards, but given the fact that DirecTV's lease-to-own payoff price is partially a non-return penalty, I'm guessing that the extra $470 could be that lease-to-own price.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

*73cuda*

Sorry, to hear about all the troubles with D*. Maybe they will get their act together one day.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I've been getting calls twice a day for the past week from:

Cleveland, OH. 1-216-539-3622

After looking the number up on the web... it seems this is Directv telemarketing calling to harass me into subscribing again. 

And from other peoples experience... they just gonna keep calling... till you cave. Since I have Caller ID... they won't bother me.


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## sirfergy (May 18, 2002)

Does anyone have the number for the dispute resolution department? They called me the other day and I forgot to write down the number.


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

sirfergy said:


> Does anyone have the number for the dispute resolution department? They called me the other day and I forgot to write down the number.


Probably 1-800-328-7448.


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## wolflord11 (Jan 17, 2007)

magnus said:


> I've been getting calls twice a day for the past week from:
> 
> Cleveland, OH. 1-216-539-3622
> 
> ...


If your Number is on the Do Not Call List, all you have to do is answer the call, and tell them to stop calling you. If they do not you will take further action.

Works every Time


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

I Just called DirecTV to verify my contract status and the CSR is claiming a two year "contract" for an HR10 purchased from ebay and activated in March. Oddly enough, every time I called DirecTV Customer Service, I would ask if I am under contract and the CSR always said no - even during and after the activation of this unit -- until today.

When I told the rep I was never informed of any contract extension, she reponded that there was nothing she could do. After waiting on hold for a supervisor for 30 minutes, I realized resolution by phone was unrealistic.

Consequentially, I am sending them written notice of cancellation for material misrepresentation and copying the State Attorney General's Office for North Carolina and the FTC. 

If DirecTV insists on assessing the termination fee, I intend on filing a lawsuit against them for UDTP. I am a Criminal Defense attorney and not a class action attorney - but am considering taking the plunge, if necessary. With this in mind, please PM me if DirecTV has attempted collection of the early termination fee under these or similar circumstances. I want to gather a list of people to contact should I decide to take legal action. Thank you.


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## mxmiller (Aug 2, 2007)

Parzec,

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one. I've been through a month of hell with DirecTV over their so called "service commitment". The situation is so bizarre that I almost can't believe it's happening.

In my case, it all started when a regular sat. receiver in my kitchen went bad. I called in to get a replacement and the Service Rep started asking me about signing-up for HD service. I told him that it would be no use to me since I only have one HD TV and it has a Tivo connected that can't record Hi Def. Of course, he offered up an HD DVR if I would commit to 2 years. I wasn't thrilled with the idea but he explained that the HD DVRs are really expensive so they need to know that they'll turn a profit. I said fine.

A few days later the guy shows up to install it but he can't get a signal. No HD for me. 

So, I call them back an ask that they just send a regular ol' receiver for the kitchen tv. To make a very long story short, the tech shows up two days later to install it and only my wife is home. She tells points him to the TV, he hooks something up and leaves. The next day we realize that he attached a standard def DVR instead of a regular receiver. Now they won't take the thing back and insist that we have a 2 year contract with them even though we didn't order it or agree to anything.

I've never seen anything like this before. They absolutely will not budge on the service commitment even though we never asked for the thing. One service rep told me that the circumstances are completely irrelevant. She said once it's activated, you're committed even if THEY do it by mistake. According to her, only the president of DirecTV himself can grant a waiver. When I told that she was being silly she got irate.

I canceled today anyway (as a matter of principle) and I still can't believe some of the things that were said on the phone. The guy actually blamed my wife saying she should have known that it was a DVR based on "the size of the box". wtf?

If there's a class action law suite somewhere, I'm in. This is the sort of stuff you normally see from gangsters.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

mxmiller said:


> The guy actually blamed my wife saying she should have known that it was a DVR based on "the size of the box". wtf?


The R15-300 is very small.... I was very surprised by the size of that little box.

Be prepared for a hit on your credit card for ending early... bogus or not.


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## mxmiller (Aug 2, 2007)

> Be prepared for a hit on your credit card for ending early... bogus or not.


That should be interesting. I told them very explicitly, both in writing and verbally, that they are not authorized to charge anything to my card, and that if they want to recover the fee, they must do so by sending a paper bill.

The service rep said that they would send a paper bill but if I don't pay it they'll use whatever card they have on file. I must say I'm seriously considering closing the account just for fun. 

I really don't want to turn this into a big thing but it's so ridiculous that it boggles the mind. I never ordered the stupid DVR and now they won't let me out of the commitment. I challenged them to produce something proving that I ordered it and they couldn't. Now I have to worry about them taking money from me. Is that even legal?

Has this happened to anyone else??


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Maybe you should read the entire post... cause they took money from my credit card without authorization. If you don't pay or say you're not gonna pay... they take it right from your CC.

I'd close the account or change cards so that you can be sure that they won't be able to take money that you don't owe them.

I finally got my money back from CC but Directv still refuses to accept the fact that they are in the wrong.

Heck I filed a complaint with BBB and they just spouted back crap about it being in the service agreement. Funny thing is I never gave them authorization for a 2 year agreement and they can't prove that either. They won't produce anything where I gave them any authorization like that... cause they cannot... it never happened.



mxmiller said:


> That should be interesting. I told them very explicitly, both in writing and verbally, that they are not authorized to charge anything to my card, and that if they want to recover the fee, they must do so by sending a paper bill.
> 
> The service rep said that they would send a paper bill but if I don't pay it they'll use whatever card they have on file. I must say I'm seriously considering closing the account just for fun.
> 
> ...


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## mxmiller (Aug 2, 2007)

Well, I just called American Express and asked if there's anything I can do to prevent them from charging my card since DirecTV is no longer authorized to use it. They found the last entry and said they can block them from using it again.

Pretty cool if it works.


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## mxmiller (Aug 2, 2007)

Ah, sweet resolution. It turns out that their web site lists the email addresses of the executive staff so I decided to sent them a complaint directly. (Despite the fact that the last clown that I spoke to claimed to be the ultimate authority)

First thing this morning someone from the presidents office called to apologize. Finally, a reasonable human being. She said it is was a mix-up and that she could see that we never ordered the DVR. They are removing the commitment and we owe them no penalties. In fact, she said they owe us 20 bucks and that they'll credit it to my American Express. Not sure that's gonna work though. 

I guess the key is to skip right past the CSR drones and go straight to the top. I still can't believe what those fools put us through.


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## mxmiller (Aug 2, 2007)

Well, despite assurances that everything was taken care of, I received a nasty letter today warning that I will be charged up to $300 if I don't immediately re-activate my receivers. I'm hoping it was simply sent before the president's assistant took care of things but we'll see.

I'm amazed by the language they used. It basically says "remain our customer or else". There's some nonsense in there about the charge being necessary due to the cost of the equipment. In my case, that's pretty funny since I never asked for the equipment and have been trying to send it back since I got it. Which reminds me, I still haven't received the return shipping box that they promised almost two weeks ago. Funny that they don't seem to be in much of a hurry to retrieve this "expensive equipment". 

If they end up hitting me with an equipment charge, there will be no doubt that it was intentional on their part. I've practically begged for an address to ship this thing to and they won't give it to me. They just keep saying I'll get a return shipping kit.

It's pretty amazing that someone could be put through all of this just because some satellite installer showed up with the wrong box. I'll be sure to let everyone know if they burn me yet again.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, today I received another bill from DTV stating the following.

Amount Due: $222.55 Due Date: 08/30/07

Activity:
Previous Balance 222.55
Payment 0.00

07/20 Temporary Dispute Credit .55
07/20 Temporary Dispute Credit -.55 Credit
-----------------------------------------
Amount Due 222.55


So, what does this mean? I sent them a letter explaining their mistake and asking them to fix the error on my account. Does this mean that they only reviewed my claim on 07/20 and already decided that they are still going to try and collect? 

Directv you've got to be kidding. In the words of Tivo....... :down: :down: :down:


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## DonDon (Jan 14, 2007)

I sympathize with everyone dealing with the huge megacorps out there today. But DISH ain't no better. 

Last year an At&T salesman showed up at my door claiming they could give me HD service through DISH for the same price I was getting from DTV. I took the bait, and after the installer left 3 weeks later, I had fewer channels and no local channels over the satellite. Turns out the At&t salesperson had outdated contracts and for what I was getting for 60 bux a month with DTV would cost me 85 bux a month thru DISH.

Now, after spending 4 hours on the phone with AT&T and DISH CSRs, I said this was BS and promptly cancelled the DISH account.

They charged me an early cancellation fee of $240 bux, and refused to refund my HDDVR upgrade fee of $300 bux, even though I returned the DVR to them as soon as I recieved the boxes from them.

They tried to charge me $540 bux for 4 hours of satellite service!!! :down: 

Lucky for me, At&T stepped up to the plate and eventually ate all the BS DISH fees. Cudos to At&t. :up: 

Now, I just added a used HR10-250 to my account today. I made it perfectly clear to the CSR that it was NOT a leased unit. But she insisted on activating it on the card that was in the unit when it arrived. I just know when I call in that I am going to have a 2 year commitment. Not that I am planning on leaving soon, but it will piss me off if it is there.

Wish me luck.

Don


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## or270 (Feb 4, 2006)

DonDon said:


> Now, I just added a used HR10-250 to my account today. I made it perfectly clear to the CSR that it was NOT a leased unit. But she insisted on activating it on the card that was in the unit when it arrived. I just know when I call in that I am going to have a 2 year commitment. Not that I am planning on leaving soon, but it will piss me off if it is there.
> 
> Wish me luck.
> 
> Don


Call and ask for the access card department to change a receiver to owned status.

Also have been told by an access card dept CSR that using an access card from another persons account could case a problem later if there was ever an audit(Like if the billed wasn't paid) on the previous user account that it might come up as a problem.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Even if they change it to owned.... he'll still have the 2 year commitment. It's total BS but that's what happened to me.



or270 said:


> Call and ask for the access card department to change a receiver to owned status.
> 
> Also have been told by an access card dept CSR that using an access card from another persons account could case a problem later if there was ever an audit(Like if the billed wasn't paid) on the previous user account that it might come up as a problem.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I agree with that.... Dish SUX even more.

I checked on setting up the most basic account with them after leaving Directv and they wanted an SSN even to do that. I'm not sure about the rest of the people in the USA but my SSN is not to be used for such things. I realize that no matter what you do it will be out there but we should do what we can to stop this practice by refusing to give that information out so freely.

I even tried to buy the equipment up front so that all they could possibly be out was $30 if I failed to pay the monthly bill but no dice... they refused to back off the SSN requirement.

So, I really have decided that it's better not to have either one of them. OTA HD is free and has much better picture quality anyway.



DonDon said:


> I sympathize with everyone dealing with the huge megacorps out there today. But DISH ain't no better.
> 
> Last year an At&T salesman showed up at my door claiming they could give me HD service through DISH for the same price I was getting from DTV. I took the bait, and after the installer left 3 weeks later, I had fewer channels and no local channels over the satellite. Turns out the At&t salesperson had outdated contracts and for what I was getting for 60 bux a month with DTV would cost me 85 bux a month thru DISH.
> 
> ...


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## lonewoolf47 (Nov 16, 2001)

After reading this entire thread, the idea bulb lit up. I will make my future payments by Money Order.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

An update:

Directv finally decided that they were wrong.... imagine that. They decided that they would send me a letter saying that they would remove the records from the credit bureaus and call off the collection agencies. I wonder how they would have put it on my credit without an SSN.


I'm thinking they sent me the standard we're sorry.... but not really letter.


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## abruski (Aug 31, 2007)

Hey everyone,

Thanks for making these posts. Using this thread I was able to resolve my problem.

I had been charged the early termination fee when I had to move and my new residence couldn't use Directv. I was never told about the fee, never agreed to it verbally or in writing. Directv was relying on their customer agreement which is loosely binding in the sense that you continue your service as they provide this agreement to you on the web and through the mail I presume. 

Unless you sign something binding you to the terms and conditions (I never did at installation) or agree with an electronic signature or verbally, this document would only be binding through some type of precedent set by continuing service in addition to some proof that you received this document (through certified mail).

Not that I'm a lawyer, correct me if I'm wrong, but those are the rules.

Anyway, to the point, Directv basically told me to F-off for the past 6 months. Then they turned me over to a sleazy collections agency "Allied Interstate". Do a google search on these guys and you'll be happy to deal with Directv.

The way to beat this is this. Deal with the regular customer service guys enough to build a file. Threaten legal action. Use a preventive legal service such as Pre-Paid Legal Services to issue a legal demand to remove the charge. Then, here's the kicker. Visit the Directv website and go to their investor relations site. Under General Information >> Contact IR or Transfer Agent you will find a link to the Customer Advocate Team. Send them a polite but firm message such as:

To Whom it May Concern:

My name is XXXX and my account number was listed under phone # XXXX (also my contact). I am one of the many people who have been misled about an early termination fee for your DVR service. I was never told about the fee verbally or in writing. Now I have been placed into collections and my credit has been harmed. This is a Directv mistake and needs to be indemnified by Directv. The 3 credit reporting agencies need to be notified through certified mail that this was a Directv mistake and the derogatory needs to be removed. I need to be copied on this communication. Additionally, any company that you have commissioned to collect this debt needs to be issued a cease and desist order, again certified and copied to me. At this point I am not asking for retribution for the significant amount of time and money lost with regards to this matter, and others where Directv was in liability's way. My attorneys have contacted you once already without response. I am talking with them today to discuss further action to indemnify the losses caused by negligent and unsavory behavior by your company. I will, however, welcome the actions above to be taken within the next 10 business days as an end to this matter. Your prompt response is appreciated.

I was contacted within 2 hours by this Customer Response Team (Phone 888-237-8327) and this was the number listed on my caller ID (208-363-6015). They promised to comply with my demands with the credit agencies and collectors.

I feel like this is a great victory, particularly if the masses can find this thread and use this information to get around the CSR's who are trained to say "no" and don't have the decision-making authority to say "yes" anyway. 

Let me know how ya'll do with this as I'm curious to know how often this works.

Good luck,

abruski


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## zandango (Sep 16, 2006)

I'm also am a victim of Directv deceptive practice's of Directv. According to DTV if you make changes to your account after March of 2006, you get it with a two year agreement. 
Evidently AGREEMENT has it's own definition to Directv, 
According to websters dictionary it means 
1. The act of agreeing. 
2. Harmony of opinion; accord. 
3. An arrangement between parties regarding a course of action; a covenant. 
During My conversation with DTV's rep never once was any mention of the 
leased equipment or any two commitment, that doesn't sound like a agreement to mean when one party has no idea of what's happening. 
Very deceptive on thir part. 
Last week I called to cancel my account and was informed that the HD 250 in the bedroom was leased, I blew a gasket calling the rep every name in the book, how could the unit be leased if I bought it used on ebay? 
She a no answer, she turned me over to her supervisor which got me nowhere but the address to billing disputes. 
This is what I wrote them: 




TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: 

I am writing to inform you of my cancellation request, as of September 11The, the end of the billing cycle. 

I was told by a customer service rep that my equipment is leased. This equipment is not leased due to the fact that I did not buy it from Direct TV. I bought it second-hand from a private party. When it was time to replace my existing 

equipment, your customer service NEVER informed me that replacing my old machine with a new one would automatically sign me up for a two year contract. 

Your rep then tried to sell me your new Direct TV system. 

I explicitly told the rep that I did not want your new equipment because I was not happy with your company's new dvr and wanted to keep Tivo, FOR WHICH I PAID A LIFE TIME FEE, and I was not interested in signing a contract. 

I have been a loyal customer for over 10 years and I, frankly, am tired of your deceptive business practices. 

You offered the HD 250 Tivo receiver ,advertising that it would be the future format of your company. A few months later your company decided to go in another direction, and the receiver was already obsolete. 

This time you railroaded me into a what you call "an agreement" without my knowledge or consent. I wonder how many of your customers are in my position..... 

You have no proof of either a written or verbal agreement between us. 

If company policy was not to inform customers of the consequence of change, that would be considered fraud by the FCC, and I am sure that they would want to look into this matter. 

I am demanding that my account be closed at the end of this cycle and no more charges will be accrued, including early cancellation charges. 

My next letter will be to the Trustees and to the FCC 

After being a customer for over 10 years never missing a payment it's is amazing how one gets treated. 

I moved to comcast using the new HD Tivo so far so good. 
I agreed to three years only because we like the Tivo interface. 

I HATE DIRECTV >>>


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## zandango (Sep 16, 2006)

zandango said:


> I'm also am a victim of Directv deceptive practice's of Directv. According to DTV if you make changes to your account after March of 2006, you get it with a two year agreement.
> Evidently AGREEMENT has it's own definition to Directv,
> According to websters dictionary it means
> 1. The act of agreeing.
> ...


 Not one hour after emailing the advocate team I got a call from DTV with a followup email 
resolving the sitution in my favor.

ACCORDING TO DTV IT WAS AS SYSTEM ERROR THAT LABEL THE CHANGED MY EQUIPMENT FOR OWNED TO LEASED.

Thanks to abruski for posting the information,

This the follow up email from DTV.

Mr. Zandango

This email confirms that your account has been scheduled to disconnect on 09/11/07 as requested. After carefully reviewing your account, I have determined that the DIRECTV HR10-250 unit activated on 11/03/2006 should have been registered in our systems as owned rather than leased. This correction has been made and I have ensured that you will not be charged an early cancellation fee after the account is disconnected.

If you would like to restart DIRECTV service in the future, we would be happy to welcome you back. Simply call us at 1-800-531-5000. For your convenience we are open seven days a week, from 4:05 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. MST daily.

Sincerely,

Julie
DIRECTV Customer Advocate Team


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

That's a success story... I'm glad to hear it. Would you ever go back to Directv? For all the trouble that I went through... I would not but it does not sound like they gave you as much grief.


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## zandango (Sep 16, 2006)

At this point I would not go back. . . . . 
I took abruski's advice and went to the top... I also CC my email to a local radio show's consumer reporter, threatened to go to the FCC, this kind of publicity DTV 
or any company do not want. 
I hope this thread helps other folks that wind up in the same situation. . . 
Good Luck Happy Tivo-ing


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