# Official TiVo HD thread



## MickeS

OK, I'm not a moderator, but how about we start a new official thread now that the TiVo HD is released?


----------



## ldc3000

Tivo has it up on the front page.


----------



## Mongoos150

Still deciding between TivoHD and refurb S3. Probably will go with the HD though (and am sure people will be upping the internal HDD in no time)


----------



## MickeS

http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivo...ovr_PhotoToWhat

From TiVo's webpage: "Record movies in HD. When recording with TiVo HD, you have the option of capturing shows in standard or high definition."

Is that just a poorly worded sentence, or does the TiVo HD actually allow a HD->SD "down-rez"? This could be done to save space, but also get around the problem of TTG for HD material.


----------



## HDTiVo

MickeS said:


> http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivo...ovr_PhotoToWhat
> 
> From TiVo's webpage: "Record movies in HD. When recording with TiVo HD, you have the option of capturing shows in standard or high definition."
> 
> Is that just a poorly worded sentence, or does the TiVo HD actually allow a HD->SD "down-rez"? This could be done to save space, but also get around the problem of TTG for HD material.


Steveris has some ifo in the other thread. It might.


----------



## yunlin12

Does it have a DOCSIS modem built in?


----------



## TexasGrillChef

Product Features:
Download thousands of movies directly to your TV**
Share home movies with your friends and family on their TV**
*Get broadband videos, music and photos on your TV***
Schedule shows online**
Discover broadcast and broadband shows with universal Swivel Search**
Easily pre-approve what your kids watch with TiVo KidZone

***Multiple TiVo DVRs required. Each TiVo DVR requires own TiVo Service subscription.*

Anyone Notice that? Is that MVR? TivoToGo? TivoBack? 

Any comments?

TexasGrillChef

P.S.

It aslso says eSATA port will be available Late 2007.

I wonder if that means that the eSATA port on this unit is disabled, or that it is enabled like the S3, just not officially supported. Any Ideas?


----------



## ldc3000

I wonder when the retail stores will get the Tivo HD units.

edit:

Looks like Best Buy has it.


----------



## TexasGrillChef

When I read further....

Are TiVoToGo and Multi-Room Viewing available on TiVo HD?

TiVoToGo and Multi-Room Viewing are not currently available on the TiVo HD DVR. We expect that a version of TiVoToGo and Multi-Room Viewing features will be made available for the TiVo HD DVR in the future.


TexasGrillChef


----------



## rjcrum

And Business Week has an article out already: TiVo Targets the Mainstream


----------



## TexasGrillChef

MickeS said:


> http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivo...ovr_PhotoToWhat
> 
> From TiVo's webpage: "Record movies in HD. When recording with TiVo HD, you have the option of capturing shows in standard or high definition."
> 
> Is that just a poorly worded sentence, or does the TiVo HD actually allow a HD->SD "down-rez"? This could be done to save space, but also get around the problem of TTG for HD material.


That is correct it does, & so will our S3's when they do the update and add the TivoToGo &/or MRV features. That way you will be able to "Transfer" shows that are broadcast in HD although downsized.

TexasGrillchef


----------



## Neenahboy

So no reassuring comments about SDV anywhere?


----------



## rjcrum

I've been thinking about this a LOT since I first ready about this new TiVo HD yesterday, and I think this is what I have been waiting for to get rid of (FINALLY!) my Comcast/Motorola 6412 DVR. My gripes about the Motorola:

1. Limited storage space (the TiVo HD starts out with about 5 hours more, which is not really THAT much more, but with the promise of "late 2007" for external storage. I'll bet Comcast and Motorola don't have an answer)

2. No way to get the shows "off the DVR" (well, nothing right now with the TiVO HD either, but the promise of MRV and TTG in the not-too-distant-future.)

3. The annoying remote lag (I can only hope that the TiVo HD has the same sort of remote performance as my two Series 2s)

4. The OK-but-it's-not-a-TiVo menus and UI on the Comcast/Motorola box (I know people complain all the time about the Comcast UI, and I find it to be "OK"...but it's not a TiVo. It would be nice to have the richness of the TiVo UI)

5. Waiting for the TiVO-for-Comcast/Motorola UI (I was initially excited, but as the year has worn on, Comcast really lost my interest. Why not a REAL TiVO, rather than what I hear is the dumbed-down Comcast/TiVo.

So, although I might not buy immediately (waiting for a lifetime transfer offer!), I think one of these will be in my house by fall. Maybe I'll wait until the external storage is supported and buy the whole shebang at once.

Thanks, TiVo. You have a REAL competitor for the Comcast HD DVR now!

Bob


----------



## MickeS

Neenahboy said:


> So no reassuring comments about SDV anywhere?


I think TiVo has a "Don't ask, don't tell" policy about SDV, at least towards the consumer...


----------



## HDTiVo

TexasGrillChef said:


> Product Features:
> Download thousands of movies directly to your TV**
> Share home movies with your friends and family on their TV**
> *Get broadband videos, music and photos on your TV***
> Schedule shows online**
> Discover broadcast and broadband shows with universal Swivel Search**
> Easily pre-approve what your kids watch with TiVo KidZone
> 
> ***Multiple TiVo DVRs required. Each TiVo DVR requires own TiVo Service subscription.*
> 
> Anyone Notice that? Is that MVR? TivoToGo? TivoBack?
> 
> Any comments?


I noticed nothing about MRV/TTG was there. Maybe they added the ** later. (and of course the TiVo site is down right now - it wouldn't be TiVo otherwise.  )

Anyway forget it, we've heard it all before. It ain't comin'.


----------



## supasta

HDTiVo said:


> and of course the TiVo site is down right now(


No problems here.


----------



## TexasGrillChef

rjcrum said:


> I've been thinking about this a LOT since I first ready about this new TiVo HD yesterday, and I think this is what I have been waiting for to get rid of (FINALLY!) my Comcast/Motorola 6412 DVR. My gripes about the Motorola:
> 
> 1. Limited storage space (the TiVo HD starts out with about 5 hours more, which is not really THAT much more, but with the promise of "late 2007" for external storage. I'll bet Comcast and Motorola don't have an answer)
> 
> 2. No way to get the shows "off the DVR" (well, nothing right now with the TiVO HD either, but the promise of MRV and TTG in the not-too-distant-future.)
> 
> 3. The annoying remote lag (I can only hope that the TiVo HD has the same sort of remote performance as my two Series 2s)
> 
> 4. The OK-but-it's-not-a-TiVo menus and UI on the Comcast/Motorola box (I know people complain all the time about the Comcast UI, and I find it to be "OK"...but it's not a TiVo. It would be nice to have the richness of the TiVo UI)
> 
> 5. Waiting for the TiVO-for-Comcast/Motorola UI (I was initially excited, but as the year has worn on, Comcast really lost my interest. Why not a REAL TiVO, rather than what I hear is the dumbed-down Comcast/TiVo.
> 
> So, although I might not buy immediately (waiting for a lifetime transfer offer!), I think one of these will be in my house by fall. Maybe I'll wait until the external storage is supported and buy the whole shebang at once.
> 
> Thanks, TiVo. You have a REAL competitor for the Comcast HD DVR now!
> 
> Bob


The eSATA from what I hear is in fact "Enabled" on this unit as it is "Enabled" on the S3. Just it won't be officially supported until they come out with their "BRANDED" Tivo eSATA drive.

TexasGrillChef


----------



## HDTiVo

Got it back... the spec page says 


> **Broadband Internet connection required


http://www.tivo.com/whatistivo/tivohd/productspecifications/index.html
Under the areas you quoted

and then I now find on the same page


> **Multiple TiVo DVRs required. Each TiVo DVR requires own TiVo Service subscription


Under the chart which has no ** in it.

No where is anything about transfers, MRV, TTG mentioned. Broadband video would be assumed to be from the internet.

Anyway its obviously confusing.


----------



## bicker

Neenahboy said:


> So no reassuring comments about SDV anywhere?


Nope. As always, purchase consumer electronics at your own risk.


----------



## megazone

I asked TiVo about SDV while doing my review - specifically in relation to the comments Tom Rogers made before Congress - but they don't have anything more to add to his comments at this time.

I get the feeling some kind of solution is being worked on, but it can't be talked about yet.


----------



## rudolpht

TexasGrillChef said:


> I wonder if that means that the eSATA port on this unit is disabled, or that it is enabled like the S3, just not officially supported. Any Ideas?


This will be the deal maker for me. I have a big Appian drive and didn't want to pull apart my Series 3 (already internally upgraded) to make it work.

Will the same key sequence work with the TivoHD?


----------



## Globular

Does anyone know if the Ethernet connection is gigabit? It doesn't say on the web site.

-Matt


----------



## Marty1781

Please forgive the newbie question but I noticed on the feature list the Tivo HD says it supports M-cards. Does this simply mean we no longer need 2 cable cards or does it also means Tivo HD supports VOD from companies like Comcast, etc?


----------



## davezatz

megazone said:


> I asked TiVo about SDV while doing my review - I get the feeling some kind of solution is being worked on, but it can't be talked about yet.


I have the same feeling, though I'm not holding my breath.



Marty1781 said:


> I noticed on the feature list the Tivo HD says it supports M-cards. Does this simply mean we no longer need 2 cable cards or does it also means Tivo HD supports VOD from companies like Comcast, etc?


The M-Card will allow you to dual-tune with just one card instead of two. M for Multistream. It doesn't support bidirectional services like VOD.


----------



## b3ar

Marty1781 said:


> Please forgive the newbie question but I noticed on the feature list the Tivo HD says it supports M-cards. Does this simply mean we no longer need 2 cable cards or does it also means Tivo HD supports VOD from companies like Comcast, etc?


No VOD/PPV. There was a post with the license terms from CableLabs that was around here about 6 - 8 months ago, but basically TiVo is not allowed to use 2-way hardware in these devices until the son-of-OCAP (i.e., "OpenCable") license/standard is ready. This really means that we are looking for a "Series 4" to have a direct connection upstream. I figure about a year...


----------



## SnakeEyes

No PPV meaning you can't order using the box, right? You can order over the phone, yes?


----------



## ChrisP21

I've been hanging on to my two Series 1 DirecTivos (DSR6000s) for a long time now, and I *was* waiting for the Comcast Tivo STB rollout to jump back to Comcast (I already/still use Comcast HSI for work). But the Tivo HD may make me jump sooner...

But I'm afraid that Comcast's support and installers, just as they've almost figured out how to handle dual single-stream CableCARD setup for the S3 boxes, are going to be thoroughly confused all over again now that we can get a single MCard for the Tivo HD boxes... 

Anyone want to place a bet on how many new Tivo HD owners will get suckered by Comcast into paying extra for two CableCARDs per box? I may wait a little longer to see how that shakes out...

I'm also curious if the Ethernet is gigabit...


----------



## davezatz

ChrisP21 said:


> But I'm afraid that Comcast's support and installers, just as they've almost figured out how to handle dual single-stream CableCARD setup for the S3 boxes, are going to be thoroughly confused all over again now that we can get a single MCard for the Tivo HD boxes...


Not all providers/regions may even be providing M-Cards yet. Which could add time/confusion to the learning curves of installers and phone agents. I didn't want to tempt fate and didn't even try to get one for my review unit, just went with OTA and analog cable.


----------



## drew00001

TexasGrillChef said:


> The eSATA from what I hear is in fact "Enabled" on this unit as it is "Enabled" on the S3. Just it won't be officially supported until they come out with their "BRANDED" Tivo eSATA drive.
> 
> TexasGrillChef


Acording to a Seattletimes.com article, the eSATA hack is not available on the TivoHD.

"The box has a fast eSata port but it won't work until TiVo provides a software upgrade. Creative Series 3 users have figured out a hack to add external drives, Denney noted, but the hack won't work on the TiVo HD."

The link is as follows.

http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/brierdudley/index.html#017547


----------



## mweiler

I ordered mine this morning and I already have an email that it has been shipped w/ a UPS tracking number. Anybody else get this? Is this standard operating procedure for a preorder like this or is my box really on its way today?


----------



## HDTiVo

davezatz said:


> Not all providers/regions may even be providing M-Cards yet. Which could add time/confusion to the learning curves of installers and phone agents. I didn't want to tempt fate and didn't even try to get one for my review unit, just went with OTA and analog cable.


I think it was the Reuters article which said TiVo was bulking up/stepping up to the CC support plate. Sounds like they are expending more resources to deal with issues and cut out the "its not my (cable/TiVO) equipments' fault" bind people find themselves in. They are starting a special unit.

No Multichannel News:



> In the second new development aimed at cable, TiVo established a dedicated CableCARD-support group, which will field front-line calls from customers who have questions or problems installing CableCARDs.
> 
> Cable wants to reduce their support costs. Were stepping up to be the central point of contact on CableCARDs, Klugman said. We recognize that CableCARD is an important initiative for us and for cable operators to make sure that the CableCARD installation is seamless.


http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6462451.html


----------



## AbMagFab

drew00001 said:


> Acording to a Seattletimes.com article, the eSATA hack is not available on the TivoHD.
> 
> "The box has a fast eSata port but it won't work until TiVo provides a software upgrade. Creative Series 3 users have figured out a hack to add external drives, Denney noted, but the hack won't work on the TiVo HD."
> 
> The link is as follows.
> 
> http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/brierdudley/index.html#017547


I bet the take-out-the-drive method will work, maybe not the kickstart62 method. Unless the drivers aren't even in the OS yet (I think one review said the TivoHD was 8.1 while the S3 is 8.3?).


----------



## Mongoos150

Now to decide whether to pre-order from Tivo.com or wait until CC/BB has it in stock. Which will get it in my paws faster?


----------



## jestyr40

Ok, I may be confused from all the switching the site did when they were getting the new Tivo HD online.

I think the Tivo HD only allows one Digital, and one analog recording at a time.

Is this correct? Why do they need two cable cards if this is true.

Ok.. here's my FAQ. can someone fill in the blanks for me?

1. Can I record two HD channels at once?
2. Can I record two digital channels at once?
3. Can I record two SD channels at once?
4. Can I record any mixture of the above at once (within the 2 tuner limit)


----------



## linkgirl

I ordered from Tivo very late last night and it shipped this morning


----------



## Krellion

The Seattle Times said:


> "The box has a fast eSata port but it won't work until TiVo provides a software upgrade. Creative Series 3 users have figured out a hack to add external drives, Denney noted, *but the hack won't work on the TiVo HD*."


That sounds like a challenge!


----------



## Mongoos150

linkgirl said:


> I ordered from Tivo very late last night and it shipped this morning


 I call shenanigans. The box says it's not shipping for 2-3 weeks (if you really did get this message, it's likely an error, as was the early pre-order page).


----------



## doormat

I've got a UPS tracking number already, I dont think its shens. 
Tracking Number: 1Z 1X3 V72 03 123x xxx x 
Type: Package 
Status: Billing Information Received 
Shipped To: LAS VEGAS, NV, US 
Shipped/Billed On: 07/24/2007 
Service: GROUND 
Weight: 18.00 Lbs


----------



## linkgirl

Mongoos150 said:


> I call shenanigans. The box says it's not shipping for 2-3 weeks (if you really did get this message, it's likely an error, as was the early pre-order page).


*shrugs* I'm looking at the ups.com page that was just updated to show my shipping address and an 18lb package coming my way.


----------



## Balzer

Oh yea.. I've been thinking of getting a Series3, but decided it was cost prohibitive. I WILL be getting the new HD box now! I still have an original Phillips Series1 box that is still working as a backup after over 5 years now, so I can't wait to get back to the original and best DVR.

I just have one question. My older HD TV does not have a HDMI connection. It has DVI. I use a HDMI to DVI cable with my cable company's Motorola box. I assume that sort of connection works with the Series3, and will work with the new HD box, correct?

I suppose I could go back to component if it doesn't work.

Thanks for any assistance.


----------



## Mongoos150

Interesting... Very Strange.


----------



## Ereth

Balzer said:


> Oh yea.. I've been thinking of getting a Series3, but decided it was cost prohibitive. I WILL be getting the new HD box now! I still have an original Phillips Series1 box that is still working as a backup after over 5 years now, so I can't wait to get back to the original and best DVR.
> 
> I just have one question. My older HD TV does not have a HDMI connection. It has DVI. I use a HDMI to DVI cable with my cable company's Motorola box. I assume that sort of connection works with the Series3, and will work with the new HD box, correct?
> 
> I suppose I could go back to component if it doesn't work.
> 
> Thanks for any assistance.


HDMI and DVI are electrically the same. HDMI adds additional support for audio, but as far as audio is concerned there is no difference between HDMI and DVI. You will be able to use a HDMI-DVI cable in any instance where you have one and need the other (with the caveat that you'll need to get the sound there some other way).


----------



## wmcbrine

jestyr40 said:


> Ok, I may be confused from all the switching the site did when they were getting the new Tivo HD online.
> 
> I think the Tivo HD only allows one Digital, and one analog recording at a time.
> 
> Is this correct?


No.

The capabilities are the same as the S3. Each tuner can record from any of the available sources. The only problem is that, if you have only one single-stream CableCard installed, the whole thing becomes a one-tuner device.


----------



## jblake

Do these downrez? I have a SDTV in my dorm room right now, but in a few weeks I move to a different room and will be bringing my HDTV from home. Does it have RF out and downrez HD channels?


----------



## Krellion

It doesn't have an RF-out (there are two RF-ins, one for cable, one for antenna). The composite and s-video outputs are always at 480i (SD), while the component and HDMI are user-selectable between 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.

It will down/up-convert the video as needed, based on the output setting.


----------



## S3-2501

I notice that the specs for the display output options list each individual resolution, but not a "native" option like on the S3. Does this mean users will have to manually switch resolutions to watch programs in their native resolution?


----------



## classicsat

Globular said:


> Does anyone know if the Ethernet connection is gigabit? It doesn't say on the web site.
> 
> -Matt


I really doubt it.


----------



## drew00001

jblake said:


> Do these downrez? I have a SDTV in my dorm room right now, but in a few weeks I move to a different room and will be bringing my HDTV from home. Does it have RF out and downrez HD channels?


Likely, the S3 would output to several formats. The S3 even had a small button on the front to change such during install. If I were you, I would download a copy of the TivoHD's manual to make sure.


----------



## bkdtv

S3-2501 said:


> I notice that the specs for the display output options list each individual resolution, but not a "native" option like on the S3. Does this mean users will have to manually switch resolutions to watch programs in their native resolution?


No. The TivoHD provides all the output choices on the Series3 -- including the native option -- plus one more.

You can see screenshots at Megazone's TivoHD Review.


----------



## aindik

bkdtv said:


> No. The TivoHD provides all the output choices on the Series3 -- including the native option -- plus one more.
> 
> You can see screenshots at Megazone's TivoHD Review.


I know there are a million options, but I'd like one more. 

I'd love the option to run all content at 720p except 1080i content, which I would run at 1080i. On my current 1366X768 set, SD content looks best upconverted to 720p, 720p content looks best at 720p and 1080i content looks best at 1080i.

I wish the box would give me a different output resolution option for each source resolution.


----------



## bkdtv

aindik said:


> I know there are a million options, but I'd like one more.
> 
> I'd love the option to run all content at 720p except 1080i content, which I would run at 1080i. On my current 1366X768 set, SD content looks best upconverted to 720p, 720p content looks best at 720p and 1080i content looks best at 1080i.
> 
> I wish the box would give me a different output resolution option for each source resolution.


Many of us have been asking for that option since the Series3 was released.


----------



## MickeS

Megazone's review said:


> One important change with the TiVo HD - for WiFi the TiVo HD only supports the TiVo branded adapter. With this new unit TiVo has dropped support for all of the older adapters that are still supported on the S2DT and S3.


Does "dropped support" mean that no other adapters work with the HD? They never officially "supported" any other adapters, did they?

If no other adapters work now, I wonder why they made that change? I use a non-TiVo adapter with my Series 3, and it seems to work good.


----------



## URPREY

Just ordered mine from the TC store. Hopefully the install for this one will go better than my S3 install. I know who to call at the cable company to get it working correctly now


----------



## gbronzer

I've got a grandfather eligible S1 I've been holding onto for just this day. I want to buy/pre-order the TivoHD, but all the options on the website require a subscription. Does anyone know how I can order a TivoHD without the subscription, so I can then transfer my lifetime account from my S1? Or do I have to wait until stores are selling the units, and buy from someplace else.

Thanks.

Related Thread 


> Grandfather transfer: The one-time "Grandfather transfer" (for people who purchased Product Lifetime on or before January 21, 2000 [as in, more than six years ago], and who have not already used their one-time transfer) is still allowed and will also be honored for future hardware releases from TiVo, such as the Series3. If you have any trouble when you call, please mention KDB code 09-07-04 to the agent.


----------



## HDTiVo

MickeS said:


> Does "dropped support" mean that no other adapters work with the HD? They never officially "supported" any other adapters, did they?
> 
> If no other adapters work now, I wonder why they made that change? I use a non-TiVo adapter with my Series 3, and it seems to work good.


It seems so. Why? $$

Bad decision though.


----------



## aindik

Does anyone know if the Series 3 and the TiVoHD will, when configured with Cablecards, record from the digital simulcast channels in the "analog tier," rather than the actual analog channels.

IOW, Comcast sends two versions of each of the channels in their Expanded Basic lineup (CNN, VH-1, etc.). One version is used by cable-ready tuners and is truly analog. Another version is used by boxes like the Motorola 3416 DVR, which lacks analog tuners and encoders. These feeds are 480i digital from the head end, transmitted separately from the true analog versions. I see both sets of some of the channels using my TV's QAM tuner.

When the TiVoHD has Cablecards installed, does it use the analog channels (using its own compression and encoding) or the digital channels (using the cable company's head-end compression and encoding)?


----------



## bareyb

HDTiVo said:


> It seems so. Why? $$
> 
> Bad decision though.


No other wireless adapters will work at all? How can they do that? I highly doubt this, but if true those of us with brand new eSATA hard drives might be getting a little nervous. What's to prevent TiVo doing the same thing with external HDD's. barring the use of any drive other than their own impending TiVo branded drive?


----------



## ldc3000

mweiler said:


> I ordered mine this morning and I already have an email that it has been shipped w/ a UPS tracking number. Anybody else get this? Is this standard operating procedure for a preorder like this or is my box really on its way today?





linkgirl said:


> I ordered from Tivo very late last night and it shipped this morning


When a label is generated through one of the UPS systems it creates a tracking number there on the spot. If you check the tracking it will probably just say manifest scan, billing information received, or no information found. That just means a label has been made. Once you see an origin scan, pickup scan or, location scan that means that UPS physical has the package and it is on its way.


----------



## jblake

aindik said:


> Does anyone know if the Series 3 and the TiVoHD will, when configured with Cablecards, record from the digital simulcast channels in the "analog tier," rather than the actual analog channels.
> 
> IOW, Comcast sends two versions of each of the channels in their Expanded Basic lineup (CNN, VH-1, etc.). One version is used by cable-ready tuners and is truly analog. Another version is used by boxes like the Motorola 3416 DVR, which lacks analog tuners and encoders. These feeds are 480i digital from the head end, transmitted separately from the true analog versions. I see both sets of some of the channels using my TV's QAM tuner.
> 
> When the TiVoHD has Cablecards installed, does it use the analog channels (using its own compression and encoding) or the digital channels (using the cable company's head-end compression and encoding)?


That's an interesting question, and one that probably can only be reliably answered by a Tivo rep or someone who has a cable company doing digital simulcast. Are the channels mapped to their normal analog numbers when you use Comcast's box? I am willing to bet Tivo will just use the analog version.


----------



## aindik

jblake said:


> That's an interesting question, and one that probably can only be reliably answered by a Tivo rep or someone who has a cable company doing digital simulcast. Are the channels mapped to their normal analog numbers when you use Comcast's box? I am willing to bet Tivo will just use the analog version.


Yes, they are mapped to their standard channel numbers (i.e., the same ones used by an analog box).

I suppose one way to know is if a Season Pass on that channel gives you the option of changing the recording quality or not. If not, then the TiVo knows the channel is digital, right?

If it just uses the analog version, that would kinda suck for hard drive space purposes because it would take up much more space at TiVo's "best" quality than it would with the cable company's compression.


----------



## cgould

jblake said:


> That's an interesting question, and one that probably can only be reliably answered by a Tivo rep or someone who has a cable company doing digital simulcast. Are the channels mapped to their normal analog numbers when you use Comcast's box? I am willing to bet Tivo will just use the analog version.


Just like the S3, it will depend on what your cable company has activated/targeted to your account (cablecards.) It is not up to Tivo, but how the CableCards are programmed to map the channels. It would be the same as what your comcast box would show.

It may be possible (but difficult, normal CSR cluelessness) to get them to change the ADS setting for your account, however you prefer. (Sometimes digital is better quality, sometimes analog, depends how good your analog is. )
If you get a digital-only comcast box, that will normally activate ADS for your account. If not, it may default to analog mapping. YMMV.


----------



## aindik

cgould said:


> Just like the S3, it will depend on what your cable company has activated/targeted to your account (cablecards.) It is not up to Tivo, but how the CableCards are programmed to map the channels. It would be the same as what your comcast box would show.
> 
> It may be possible (but difficult, normal CSR cluelessness) to get them to change the ADS setting for your account, however you prefer. (Sometimes digital is better quality, sometimes analog, depends how good your analog is. )
> If you get a digital-only comcast box, that will normally activate ADS for your account. If not, it may default to analog mapping. YMMV.


Analog might be better than digital at the source, but not once it gets through the TiVo's encoders. It's either far inferior or it takes up almost 3 times the space.

I have a 3416 now, so it must be is on my account now. Does that mean it will be on future Cablecards I order? Even if I, at the same time I order the Cablecards, turn in the digital box?

Does anyone know if ADS (nice to know the name of it) is activated for anyone who has digital cable, or only for people with the digital-only DVRs? Or is that a market-by-market question?


----------



## aus1ander

Mongoos150 said:


> I call shenanigans. The box says it's not shipping for 2-3 weeks (if you really did get this message, it's likely an error, as was the early pre-order page).


I ordered mine from bestbuy.com today and it shipped within 4 hours, UPS tracking number and all.


----------



## Mongoos150

Interesting - any reason you went with BB over Tivo.com? Which one should I go with? I'm buying tomorow.


----------



## aus1ander

I went with BB since I have two Tivos already and want to use the MSD (multi-service discount). If I bought from Tivo.com directly, I would be forced to use their package deals.


----------



## Mongoos150

So - for a first time TiVo buyer, which would you recommend? I'd like the box ASAP, since my cable is being installed next week...


----------



## smark

aindik said:


> Analog might be better than digital at the source, but not once it gets through the TiVo's encoders. It's either far inferior or it takes up almost 3 times the space.
> 
> I have a 3416 now, so it must be is on my account now. Does that mean it will be on future Cablecards I order? Even if I, at the same time I order the Cablecards, turn in the digital box?
> 
> Does anyone know if ADS (nice to know the name of it) is activated for anyone who has digital cable, or only for people with the digital-only DVRs? Or is that a market-by-market question?


If you have a box, you should be on ADS. It is not specific to DVRs.


----------



## Legacy679

Tivo website now supports giving MSD. I just had to login to my account and then go to Buy Tivo -> Tivo Plans to see that I could get MSD pricing. I figured it was cheaper to go through Tivo website for free shipping and no taxes.


----------



## aindik

smark said:


> If you have a box, you should be on ADS. It is not specific to DVRs.


Thanks. Is it fair to say, then, that the only people in an ADS market who are not on ADS are people who have never had a digital box?


----------



## ldc3000

Mongoos150 said:


> Interesting - any reason you went with BB over Tivo.com? Which one should I go with? I'm buying tomorow.


I went with Circuit City. I was going to order from bestbuy, but they weren't offering an extended warranty through the website. I called their customer service and she told me that I could go to my local store and buy the warranty, but didn't know how much it costed. Seemed like to much work since Circuit City had warranty listed right on the same page as the Tivo Hd, so I went with them.


----------



## aus1ander

Mongoos150 said:


> So - for a first time TiVo buyer, which would you recommend? I'd like the box ASAP, since my cable is being installed next week...


I don't think it really matters for first time buyers, honestly. The main difference is shipping is free from Tivo.com. I'm not sure if Tivo.com charges sales tax...


----------



## aaronwt

Any mention of Lifetime transfers like with the S3?


----------



## aus1ander

Legacy679 said:


> Tivo website now supports giving MSD. I just had to login to my account and then go to Buy Tivo -> Tivo Plans to see that I could get MSD pricing. I figured it was cheaper to go through Tivo website for free shipping and no taxes.


Wow, I stand corrected. So if I had gone with Tivo.com, I probably would have saved 10 bucks.


----------



## lessd

jblake said:


> That's an interesting question, and one that probably can only be reliably answered by a Tivo rep or someone who has a cable company doing digital simulcast. Are the channels mapped to their normal analog numbers when you use Comcast's box? I am willing to bet Tivo will just use the analog version.


If you cable system has simulcast you will have no say on the channel that is recorded as the cable cards do the switching. I have that system now on my Comcast cable system and I can't get any analog channels, I can't select the record quality for any channel on my Series 3.


----------



## smark

aindik said:


> Thanks. Is it fair to say, then, that the only people in an ADS market who are not on ADS are people who have never had a digital box?


If you mean the only people in an ADS market who are not getting the ADS versions of channels are people WITHOUT a digital box or cablecard then you are correct.


----------



## Mongoos150

Since I can make the purchase all at once (HD box, 1 yr service, Glo remote) I'll go through TiVo.com. I'm purchasing tomorow - hopefully the box will ship quickly (not the 14-21 day estimated shipping)... I dont' even want to THINK about the cablecard nightmare that would make, with my installer coming out next week. >_<


----------



## mph005

They made it pretty clear to me they wouldn't ship until mid August. I suppose you can hope all you want.


----------



## aindik

smark said:


> If you mean the only people in an ADS market who are not getting the ADS versions of channels are people WITHOUT a digital box or cablecard then you are correct.


So it extends to Cablecards, too? That means that any Series 3 or TiVoHD with a Cablecard in it in an ADS market will get the ADS channels? Cool. Exactly the answer I was looking for.


----------



## sirfergy

I wonder when this will be available for rewards and how many points.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

bareyb said:


> No other wireless adapters will work at all? How can they do that? I highly doubt this, but if true those of us with brand new eSATA hard drives might be getting a little nervous. What's to prevent TiVo doing the same thing with external HDD's. barring the use of any drive other than their own impending TiVo branded drive?


there is a massive difference between eSata drive and wireless USB adpaters.
USB adaptes kept changing chip sets and never wrote linux drivers for them. TiVo had a very hard time keeping up with those changes plus all the time anything they could do just sucked up resources on the TiVo DVR. Finally tiVo put out its own adapter and designed it to do most of the work on the adpater versus on the DVR. 
I would not use another adapter on the TiVo DVR anyway, they are designed for PCs and not for a consumer electronic appliance running Linux


----------



## ZeoTiVo

drew00001 said:


> Acording to a Seattletimes.com article, the eSATA hack is not available on the TivoHD.
> 
> "The box has a fast eSata port but it won't work until TiVo provides a software upgrade. Creative Series 3 users have figured out a hack to add external drives, Denney noted, but the hack won't work on the TiVo HD."
> 
> The link is as follows.
> 
> http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/brierdudley/index.html#017547


wow in that same article is confirmation they are working on HD downloads.

"Microsoft also sells high-definition video downloads, which aren't yet available for the TiVo HD. *TiVo also won't immediately activate the HD downloading capability, but it's in the works, said Jim Denney*, vice president of product marketing."

then the blogger goes off into some wild thoughts about getting a dual cable card capable Media center for 800$ and TVs having ethernet ports for downloading content directly


----------



## bareyb

ZeoTiVo said:


> there is a massive difference between eSata drive and wireless USB adpaters.
> USB adaptes kept changing chip sets and never wrote linux drivers for them. TiVo had a very hard time keeping up with those changes plus all the time anything they could do just sucked up resources on the TiVo DVR. Finally tiVo put out its own adapter and designed it to do most of the work on the adpater versus on the DVR.
> I would not use another adapter on the TiVo DVR anyway, they are designed for PCs and not for a consumer electronic appliance running Linux


Yeah. Dan203 already set me straight on this. I got a little worried since I bought two eSATA drives yesterday and installed them in their cases about two minutes before the big TiVo announcement. I feel pretty confident now that TiVo will still support "other branded" eSATA drives so I'll stop with my paranoia.


----------



## rainwater

mph005 said:


> They made it pretty clear to me they wouldn't ship until mid August. I suppose you can hope all you want.


Circuit City's website lists the box as being available for in-store pickup in my area. I have never seen it say that when an item wasn't available yet.


----------



## megazone

MickeS said:


> Does "dropped support" mean that no other adapters work with the HD? They never officially "supported" any other adapters, did they?
> 
> If no other adapters work now, I wonder why they made that change? I use a non-TiVo adapter with my Series 3, and it seems to work good.


Yes, that's what it means. If you want WiFi you use TiVo's adapter, period.

Why? Notice TiVo hasn't added any new adapters to the supported list in a LONG, LONG time. Once they came out with their own adapter they basically stopped struggling to deal with the ever-changing 3rd party adapter market.

So all of the other adapters that were supported on older units like the S2DT and S3 are WAY out of date, and can't do WPA on a TiVo (WEP is worthless). They also don't perform anywhere near as well.

I'm sure TiVo would love to drop support for all old adapters just to lower support costs, but that'd piss off too many current users. But the introduction of a new box is the perfect time to make a clean break. Why do any work to port over drivers for ancient adapters that aren't nearly as good as TiVo's own adapter? I still see people getting burned trying to cheap it out and buy some 3rd party adapter, only to find they have some sub-revision with a different chipset than the driver handles. Supporting 3rd party adapters was *hell*, even partnering with Linksys didn't help - they still up and changed their hardware without telling TiVo, breaking support.

Since the TiVo adapter was released, there has not been a good reason to use anything else. The little added cost is worth it for real security, better performance, and keeping your sanity. I have little pity for those who try to find a supported 3rd party adapter to save a little money.


----------



## aindik

megazone said:


> Yes, that's what it means. If you want WiFi you use TiVo's adapter, period.
> 
> Why? Notice TiVo hasn't added any new adapters to the supported list in a LONG, LONG time. Once they came out with their own adapter they basically stopped struggling to deal with the ever-changing 3rd party adapter market.
> 
> So all of the other adapters that were supported on older units like the S2DT and S3 are WAY out of date, and can't do WPA on a TiVo (WEP is worthless). They also don't perform anywhere near as well.
> 
> I'm sure TiVo would love to drop support for all old adapters just to lower support costs, but that'd piss off too many current users. But the introduction of a new box is the perfect time to make a clean break. Why do any work to port over drivers for ancient adapters that aren't nearly as good as TiVo's own adapter? I still see people getting burned trying to cheap it out and buy some 3rd party adapter, only to find they have some sub-revision with a different chipset than the driver handles. Supporting 3rd party adapters was *hell*, even partnering with Linksys didn't help - they still up and changed their hardware without telling TiVo, breaking support.
> 
> Since the TiVo adapter was released, there has not been a good reason to use anything else. The little added cost is worth it for real security, better performance, and keeping your sanity. I have little pity for those who try to find a supported 3rd party adapter to save a little money.


There is another option for using wireless without using TiVo's unit. You can hook a wireless ethernet bridge to the TiVo's ethernet port. I bought a Buffalo unit that's a wireless ethernet bridge with four ethernet ports. I think it's this one:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1649578&CatId=1594

You can hook your TiVo and, say, an XBox 360 to the wireless network with one wireless device and two ethernet cables. The 360's wireless adapter alone was like $90.


----------



## Mongoos150

mph005 said:


> They made it pretty clear to me they wouldn't ship until mid August. I suppose you can hope all you want.


 Several people here have reported receiving shipping notifications already from both TiVo.com and BB.com.


----------



## ldc3000

Mongoos150 said:


> Several people here have reported receiving shipping notifications already from both TiVo.com and BB.com.


Still doesn't mean item are being shipped. Just a label was created for shipment and the carrier was electronically notified.


----------



## Mongoos150

ldc3000 said:


> Still doesn't mean item are being shipped. Just a label was created for shipment and the carrier was electronically notified.


Incorrect - all of those people have verified tracking numbers (with estimated delivery at the end of this week). Read through the threads.


----------



## rainwater

ldc3000 said:


> Still doesn't mean item are being shipped. Just a label was created for shipment and the carrier was electronically notified.


I think the fact that some major retailers already have the item in stock pretty much confirms the box is available. The delay listed on the Tivo.com site is most likely due to the fact that they expect a large demand on the item so they want to be on the safe side.


----------



## megazone

Mongoos150 said:


> Incorrect - all of those people have verified tracking numbers (with estimated delivery at the end of this week). Read through the threads.


 I have - and those are poor conclusions.

I know from experience that when electronic shipping labels are created they immediately go into the system, and a delivery estimate is generated based on standard shipping times from source to destination.

But the labels being generated doesn't mean the item is actually on the dock ready to ship. Until you see a scan of the item being picked up, it isn't really shipped - just in the system as pending shipment.

Don't get your hopes up until someone sees an actually departure scan and the item starts working its way through the depots.

TiVo told me directly they would not be shipping until 'early August', so it would be surprising for them to actually ship now.


----------



## megazone

rainwater said:


> I think the fact that some major retailers already have the item in stock pretty much confirms the box is available. The delay listed on the Tivo.com site is most likely due to the fact that they expect a large demand on the item so they want to be on the safe side.


I'll wait until we hear from someone who has one in their hands - and not a reviewer like me. 

I've seen Best Buy, Circuit City, etc, claim to have items in stock in the store only to show up and be told they don't have any.

When someone says they went and picked one up and have it at home, them maybe I'll believe it. ;-)


----------



## cgould

aindik said:


> So it extends to Cablecards, too? That means that any Series 3 or TiVoHD with a Cablecard in it in an ADS market will get the ADS channels? Cool. Exactly the answer I was looking for.


Not necessarily. Above should have said "digital ONLY boxes". It's still likely per account, and not necessairly ADS mapping by default.
I have Comcast Digital, had a 6412 (analog capable), and I don't have ADS for my analog channels. I'm pretty sure ADS is active in my area/market.

My analog is very clean (as is the tivo-encoded recording), digital channels actually do look very good on the S3 (much better than the 6412 actually) and save some space but not tons- (I normally record in Medium)-
however I'm not sure of the quality (res/bitrate) difference of the "true" digital-only channels vs the ADS simulcast channels.
I suppose that I could have them change me over, but after fighting 5x w/ them to try and get my card pairings correct, I figured it works so DFWI


----------



## aus1ander

megazone said:


> I'll wait until we hear from someone who has one in their hands - and not a reviewer like me.
> 
> I've seen Best Buy, Circuit City, etc, claim to have items in stock in the store only to show up and be told they don't have any.
> 
> When someone says they went and picked one up and have it at home, them maybe I'll believe it. ;-)


My UPS tracking number show "billing information received" today (which corresponds with a label being generated), followed by an origin scan from Maumee, OH (BB.com) four hours later (which usually means a man in a brown truck picking it up). Estimated delivery date of 7/26/07.


----------



## ldc3000

Mongoos150 said:


> Incorrect - all of those people have verified tracking numbers (with estimated delivery at the end of this week). Read through the threads.


It does seem that these packages are shipping out, but a tracking number doesn't always mean that the package will ship. The scheduled del date is based upon when the label was created and would automatically revise for the next business day, if the package was not picked up by carrier. I'm glad that they are shipping thou, that means I can expect mine on Thursday.


----------



## apietivo

first, let me say that i am so excited the tivo hd is out -- i just bought a big tv and could not stomach paying $800 for the series 3. i dont need much but i do want the hd experience. the ads say tivo hd has 20 hours in hd recording, and 180 hours in sd ... how does this work? if i set everything up to record in hd and i go past the 20 hours limit, will tivo not record the show or will it automatically bump it down to sd? also, if a program was recorded in hd and i save it permanently, does that count towards my 20 hours?
one last question -- i have some programs saved permanently on my series 2 tivo -- will they be lost if go up to tivo hd? 
thanks!


----------



## GoHokies!

The limit is based on hard drive space. If you fill the drive with 20 hours of HD, it'll just delete something to make space, unless you have 20 hours of HD programming all marked "Keep until I delete". Then it just won't record anything until you free up some space.

Are you talking about transferring your subscription from your S2 to your THD? If so, you'll be able to watch the shows still on your S2 but you won't be able to do anything else with them.


----------



## yunlin12

apietivo said:


> first, let me say that i am so excited the tivo hd is out -- i just bought a big tv and could not stomach paying $800 for the series 3. i dont need much but i do want the hd experience. the ads say tivo hd has 20 hours in hd recording, and 180 hours in sd ... how does this work? if i set everything up to record in hd and i go past the 20 hours limit, will tivo not record the show or will it automatically bump it down to sd? also, if a program was recorded in hd and i save it permanently, does that count towards my 20 hours?
> one last question -- i have some programs saved permanently on my series 2 tivo -- will they be lost if go up to tivo hd?
> thanks!


the way it works right now is that your Tivo's capacity is the HDD size minus whatever is taken by "Keep Until Delete" shows (present and future based on your season pass settings and recording schedule). The rest is a FIFO, suggestions gets overwritten before any season pass or wish list shows gets over written.

Don't understand your question regarding the S2 Tivo. If you get rid of the S2 and replace it with the Tivo HD, yeah, you'd lose all the shows on the S2. If you just stop the service on the S2, but still keep it powered up, I believe you can still watch already recorded shows on it. You can not transfer the shows on S2 to the Tivo HD as MRV is not yet available.


----------



## jblake

No online retailer generates tracking numbers weeks before they ship the item. If a tracking number is generated, then it has to be ready to ship and will usually within a day.

And the guy with evidence of an origin scan means that a physical box has been picked up by UPS/Fedex.


----------



## ldc3000

jblake said:


> No online retailer generates tracking numbers weeks before they ship the item. If a tracking number is generated, then it has to be ready to ship and will usually within a day.
> 
> And the guy with evidence of an origin scan means that a physical box has been picked up by UPS/Fedex.


I actually have seen labels generated a week or so in advance, but it seems like this might not be the case, if this guy package has actually been picked up.


----------



## dvr4me

apietivo said:


> first, let me say that i am so excited the tivo hd is out -- i just bought a big tv and could not stomach paying $800 for the series 3. i dont need much but i do want the hd experience. the ads say tivo hd has 20 hours in hd recording, and 180 hours in sd ... how does this work? if i set everything up to record in hd and i go past the 20 hours limit, will tivo not record the show or will it automatically bump it down to sd? also, if a program was recorded in hd and i save it permanently, does that count towards my 20 hours?
> one last question -- i have some programs saved permanently on my series 2 tivo -- will they be lost if go up to tivo hd?
> thanks!


Based on the numbers Tivo is giving us, I'd have to make a guess here that SD programs take approximately 800 megabytes of hard drive space per hour of recording at the basic (worst) quality level and HD takes approximately 8 gigabytes of space per hour.

So if you record 10 hours of HD, you've used 80 gigabytes of your 160 gigabyte drive. Thus, you would have 10 hours of HD recording left, or 80 hours of SD basic quality recording left. If you record 40 hours of basic quality SD without deleting any of your HD programs, you now have 40 hours of SD or about 5 hours of HD left.

Basically you need to keep this in mind: HD takes up a LOT more space than SD. And the SD figures that they are quoting are for a basic recording level only (the most compressed and poorest quality). So if you are recording only SD, you can expect 180 hours of recording time at the worst quality level. At the best quality level you can most likely expect about 38ish hours of recording in SD. This is based on the information in the Series 3 FAQ .

Once the show is stored on the TiVo drive, it will not further compress the show in order to make more space. If it needs space, it will delete suggestions, then the oldest show that is eligible for deletion. If you have flagged all your shows as keep until I delete, you will be unable to record or schedule shows to be recorded.

I don't know of any way to transfer the Series 2 shows at this time.


----------



## gbnyc

I just called TiVo to order a TiVoHD and then transfer my lifetime from my pre-2000 Series 1, and the customer service person explained that that offer does not apply (at least for now) to the TiVoHD. :down:

Just to make it more frustrating, she said it also is not available for refurbished Series 3 TiVos, and that I could only transfer to a Series 3 if I bought it from a different seller, not directly from TiVo. :down:

Not surprisingly, I've been convinced to NOT buy either one, at least until something changes.



gbronzer said:


> I've got a grandfather eligible S1 I've been holding onto for just this day. I want to buy/pre-order the TivoHD, but all the options on the website require a subscription. Does anyone know how I can order a TivoHD without the subscription, so I can then transfer my lifetime account from my S1? Or do I have to wait until stores are selling the units, and buy from someplace else.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## MickeS

gbnyc said:


> I just called TiVo to order a TiVoHD and then transfer my lifetime from my pre-2000 Series 1, and the customer service person explained that that offer does not apply (at least for now) to the TiVoHD. :down:
> 
> Just to make it more frustrating, she said it also is not available for refurbished Series 3 TiVos, and that I could only transfer to a Series 3 if I bought it from a different seller, not directly from TiVo. :down:
> 
> Not surprisingly, I've been convinced to NOT buy either one, at least until something changes.


She was wrong.

Grandfather transfer: The one-time "Grandfather transfer" (for people who purchased Product Lifetime on or before January 21, 2000, and who have not already used their one-time transfer) is still allowed and will also be honored for future hardware releases from TiVo, such as the Series3. *If you have any trouble when you call, please mention KDB code 09-07-04 to the agent.
*

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290723


----------



## megazone

aus1ander said:


> My UPS tracking number show "billing information received" today (which corresponds with a label being generated), followed by an origin scan from Maumee, OH (BB.com) four hours later (which usually means a man in a brown truck picking it up). Estimated delivery date of 7/26/07.


Well, you have an Origin Scan - that generally means it is on a truck. Good luck, we're all counting on you. ;-)


----------



## jfh3

aindik said:


> When the TiVoHD has Cablecards installed, does it use the analog channels (using its own compression and encoding) or the digital channels (using the cable company's head-end compression and encoding)?


I'm sure it will work the same as the S3 and the answer is "it depends on the cable company". If they have ADS configured correctly, you will see the digital version of any channel that is sent in both analog and digital.


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

Globular said:


> Does anyone know if the Ethernet connection is gigabit? It doesn't say on the web site.
> 
> -Matt


I really hope they would place a Gigabit, but I do think it is.


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/TiVoHD-Review/Medium/TiVoHD-inside-8.jpg

Is there a SATA connector part that could be added to this? I know that the TiVo Software 8.1.X may not support the second SATA. I would be interested is this.


----------



## Legacy679

So if my TiVo HD shows up on Friday, could I potentially steal a CableCard from my Series3 until I can get 2 additional CC's from my cable provider? Btw, showing it in transit right now from Fort Worth, TX (ordered direct from TiVo).


----------



## btwyx

aindik said:


> Does anyone know if the Series 3 and the TiVoHD will, when configured with Cablecards, record from the digital simulcast channels in the "analog tier," rather than the actual analog channels.


It'll do what the cable company tells the cable card to tell the TiVo what to do. The cable company could tell the TiVo to record either. The problem is the cable company doesn't know this.

There's ADS on my cable system. When I first got cable cards, I got the analog version of all channels. I asked them to switch me to digital, they said it wasn't possible. A person claiming to be a senior tech said it wasn't possible. The way to make it happen was to get a digital only box from the cable company, as soon as that was put on the account the computer switched me to digital. Then I gave the box back, I still have all digital channels.


----------



## btwyx

bkdtv said:


> Many of us have been asking for that option since the Series3 was released.


And before that, since the HR10 was relased.


----------



## megazone

The Ehternet is 10/100. That's what the controller built into the BCM7401 supports.


----------



## linkgirl

aus1ander said:


> My UPS tracking number show "billing information received" today (which corresponds with a label being generated), followed by an origin scan from Maumee, OH (BB.com) four hours later (which usually means a man in a brown truck picking it up). Estimated delivery date of 7/26/07.


Mine is also on a truck but looks like I'm a day behind you for delivery - darn!! 

Type: Package 
Status: In Transit - On Time 
Scheduled Delivery: 07/27/2007 
Shipped To: SIERRA MADRE, CA, US 
Shipped/Billed On: 07/24/2007 
Service: GROUND 
Weight: 18.00 Lbs

Package Progress
Location Date Local Time Description
VERNON,
CA, US 07/24/2007 11:19 P.M. IN TRANSIT TO
FORT WORTH,
TX, US 07/25/2007 1:18 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
FORT WORTH,
TX, US 07/24/2007 7:15 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN
US 07/24/2007 11:00 A.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED


----------



## doormat

I've got scheduled delivery for Monday! Doh! I was hoping for friday.


----------



## jfh3

gbnyc said:


> I just called TiVo to order a TiVoHD and then transfer my lifetime from my pre-2000 Series 1, and the customer service person explained that that offer does not apply (at least for now) to the TiVoHD. :down:
> 
> Just to make it more frustrating, she said it also is not available for refurbished Series 3 TiVos, and that I could only transfer to a Series 3 if I bought it from a different seller, not directly from TiVo. :down:
> 
> Not surprisingly, I've been convinced to NOT buy either one, at least until something changes.


She is confused - you can transfer a grandfathered lifetime, but I don't think tivo sells boxes without service. Buy a box from BB or CC and then call again.


----------



## 1283

MediaLivingRoom said:


> http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/TiVoHD-Review/Medium/TiVoHD-inside-8.jpg
> 
> Is there a SATA connector part that could be added to this? I know that the TiVo Software 8.1.X may not support the second SATA. I would be interested is this.


No, nothing can/should be connected to those pads. Those signals go to/from the SiI5723 chip which gives you two SATA ports.


----------



## MediaLivingRoom

c3 said:


> No, nothing can/should be connected to those pads. Those signals go to/from the SiI5723 chip which gives you two SATA ports.


So, if the Kernal is improved to read more that 2TB and a hard drive that is paired with "SiI5723 chip" it can be daisy chained. http://www.siimage.com/docs/sii5723_pb_FINAL_11-28-06.pdf


----------



## 1283

MediaLivingRoom said:


> So, if the Kernal is improved to read more that 2TB and a hard drive that is paired with "SiI5723 chip" it can be daisy chained. http://www.siimage.com/docs/sii5723_pb_FINAL_11-28-06.pdf


Yes, *IF* the SiI5723's virtualization feature is used.


----------



## megory

aus1ander said:


> I went with BB since I have two Tivos already and want to use the MSD (multi-service discount). If I bought from Tivo.com directly, I would be forced to use their package deals.


I'm in the first month of a new 3-year contract with a Series 2.

I will buy the new HDTiVo for $299 from someone, preferably from TiVo directly. However, they require me to sign-up for a new contract.

Will I be able to transfer my contract from the Humax to the new HDTiVo?

Or, will I need to cancel my contract before the month is up, buy the HDTiVo from Circuit City, and then sign up again?

Are there other options? What looks to you like the best way to go?

Thanks beaucoup!


----------



## GoHokies!

Megory,
If you don't want to have service on the S2, DON'T buy from Tivo. Buy the box somewhere else, then TRANSFER the service from your S2 to your new THD.


----------



## aus1ander

linkgirl said:


> Mine is also on a truck but looks like I'm a day behind you for delivery - darn!!


Haha, well I have a hard time believing a package can get from OH to MN in 1.5 days by ground, so I'm sorta expecting UPS to push back the delivery date to Friday. But if it does show up on Thursday, I'll be even happier.


----------



## Globular

Waahhh! I ordered mine yesterday afternoon, but no shipping notice.  I'm in the Northeast, so maybe the batch that has gone out hasn't reached here yet?

I'm not complaining, just being anxious. The TiVo HD is just what I want, and when ESATA, TTG and TTComeback (especially the latter) are all working, I'll be a happy d00d!

Bummer about the Ethernet connector being only 10/100. I wonder if using a USB 2.0 Gigabit adapter will work (understanding that USB 2.0 only goes to 400+ Mb/s)? Has anyone tried one on an S2?

-Matt


----------



## HDTiVo

megory said:


> I will buy the new HDTiVo for $299


I don't even charge. Looks like I'm leaving money on the table.

Spend your money on a TiVo HD.

(And unfortunately its the same *old * HDTiVo anyway.  )


----------



## gbnyc

I tried again today, and the rep explained that they got a communication yesterday morning, about grandfather transfers of lifetime, code 09-07-04, specifically telling them that it is not available for the new TiVoHD. Each rep I spoke with knew exactly what I was talking about, knew the code number before I had to give it to them, and said that it is NOT available for this model. If anyone has a different experience, please post.



MickeS said:


> She was wrong.
> 
> Grandfather transfer: The one-time "Grandfather transfer" (for people who purchased Product Lifetime on or before January 21, 2000, and who have not already used their one-time transfer) is still allowed and will also be honored for future hardware releases from TiVo, such as the Series3. *If you have any trouble when you call, please mention KDB code 09-07-04 to the agent.
> *
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=290723


----------



## Balzer

Globular said:


> Waahhh! I ordered mine yesterday afternoon, but no shipping notice.  I'm in the Northeast, so maybe the batch that has gone out hasn't reached here yet?


Yea.. I ordered mine last night, and I haven't received any shipping information yet. The order status just shows "In Progress". Maybe I was too late for the first batch available.


----------



## toddinmd

Balzer said:


> Yea.. I ordered mine last night, and I haven't received any shipping information yet. The order status just shows "In Progress". Maybe I was too late for the first batch available.


i ordered my yesterday afternoon, still in progress. (ordered at 1345)


----------



## sampai

I ordered mine from Best Buy's web site yesterday. The web site said it would ship within one business day. I got an e-mail from Best Buy today with a tracking number, saying:



> The items listed below are now packed and ready to leave our warehouse. Your credit card (or Gift Card) has been charged for the items.
> 
> Orders that are packed on Saturdays or Sundays do not reach the carrier until Monday morning. When a tracking number is listed below, please note that it has been assigned before the carrier has the package. If your tracking number does not appear immediately when attempting to track your package, the carrier may still be processing this information. You may need to check the carrier's site periodically for the updated information.


BTW, the Best Buy web site showed the Best Buy _physical_ stores as having no stock.

I can't wait to get my TiVo HD this week, and finally return my Comcast DVR. I stopped by the Comcast office in Redmond, WA, yesterday, and got two cablecards: first one for $5/month, second one for $1.79/month. The lady at the counter didn't seem the slightest bit surprised. Redmond is home to Microsoft; so there's probably no shortage of geeks like me asking for cablecards.


----------



## ldc3000

Are people buying extended warranties? I decided to purchase one on the THD I purchased from Circuit City. $300 is right at the point where I want that extra protection.


----------



## dvr4me

megory said:


> I'm in the first month of a new 3-year contract with a Series 2.
> 
> I will buy the new HDTiVo for $299 from someone, preferably from TiVo directly. However, they require me to sign-up for a new contract.
> 
> Will I be able to transfer my contract from the Humax to the new HDTiVo?
> 
> Or, will I need to cancel my contract before the month is up, buy the HDTiVo from Circuit City, and then sign up again?
> 
> Are there other options? What looks to you like the best way to go?
> 
> Thanks beaucoup!


Megory, where did you originally buy the S2?

If you bought it from Tivo, it is part of a package and you cannot transfer the subscription to another unit regardless of where you buy the new unit.

I bought an S2 from Tivo 2 weeks ago. I called them Monday 7/23 to find out what the return process involves and whether I could just transfer my sub. The rep explained that you cannot transfer the sub from a "packaged tivo".

The rep actually told me that it is a better deal to buy one from retail and then purchase a subscription because then you could transfer the subscription after you received the retail rebate. It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me to allow people to buy a tivo box, buy a subscription, get the rebate, then allow them to buy another box and transfer the sub to the new box. You'd think that you'd need to keep the box active for the length of the sub so then it would be free and clear... What would prevent someone from buying a $55 box after rebate and just keep switching the sub from box to box and sell the boxes on ebay?...

Long story short, since I was in my first month I called Tivo and arranged a return for full credit. The rep really wanted me to keep the S2 but with the Tivo HD coming out I saw no reason. Once you start the return process, the sub is cancelled and you need to get the box back to Tivo within 15 days or a "non-refundable, non-returned equipment fee will be charged for the box" ($250).


----------



## dvr4me

ldc3000 said:


> Are people buying extended warranties? I decided to purchase one on the THD I purchased from Circuit City. $300 is right at the point where I want that extra protection.


I might buy a warranty. One interesting thing about the Circuit City warranty was that they would troubleshoot over the phone and if they couldn't resolve the issue they would send a new one (specifically the warranty for DVR's).

I bought mine from Best Buy however. I suspect the warranty would be around $50 but I haven't looked into it yet.

My Best Buy order seems to have shipped as I too received the email that states "The items listed below are now packed and ready to leave our warehouse. Your credit card (or Gift Card) has been charged for the items."


----------



## rainwater

dvr4me said:


> Megory, where did you originally buy the S2?
> 
> If you bought it from Tivo, it is part of a package and you cannot transfer the subscription to another unit regardless of where you buy the new unit.
> 
> I bought an S2 from Tivo 2 weeks ago. I called them Monday 7/23 to find out what the return process involves and whether I could just transfer my sub. The rep explained that you cannot transfer the sub from a "packaged tivo".


That is incorrect. You can transfer any subscription to another box. You will have to buy the box at retail and not from Tivo.com however. All you do is buy the box and login to Tivo.com to change the TSN. It takes about 2 minutes to do.


----------



## dvr4me

gbnyc said:


> I tried again today, and the rep explained that they got a communication yesterday morning, about grandfather transfers of lifetime, code 09-07-04, specifically telling them that it is not available for the new TiVoHD. Each rep I spoke with knew exactly what I was talking about, knew the code number before I had to give it to them, and said that it is NOT available for this model. If anyone has a different experience, please post.


Added information to [post=5351201]the TiVo HD FAQ.[/post] Thanks!


----------



## dbaps

rjcrum said:


> I've been thinking about this a LOT since I first ready about this new TiVo HD yesterday, and I think this is what I have been waiting for to get rid of (FINALLY!) my Comcast/Motorola 6412 DVR. My gripes about the Motorola:
> 
> 1. Limited storage space (the TiVo HD starts out with about 5 hours more, which is not really THAT much more, but with the promise of "late 2007" for external storage. I'll bet Comcast and Motorola don't have an answer)
> 
> 2. No way to get the shows "off the DVR" (well, nothing right now with the TiVO HD either, but the promise of MRV and TTG in the not-too-distant-future.)
> 
> 3. The annoying remote lag (I can only hope that the TiVo HD has the same sort of remote performance as my two Series 2s)
> 
> 4. The OK-but-it's-not-a-TiVo menus and UI on the Comcast/Motorola box (I know people complain all the time about the Comcast UI, and I find it to be "OK"...but it's not a TiVo. It would be nice to have the richness of the TiVo UI)
> 
> 5. Waiting for the TiVO-for-Comcast/Motorola UI (I was initially excited, but as the year has worn on, Comcast really lost my interest. Why not a REAL TiVO, rather than what I hear is the dumbed-down Comcast/TiVo.
> 
> So, although I might not buy immediately (waiting for a lifetime transfer offer!), I think one of these will be in my house by fall. Maybe I'll wait until the external storage is supported and buy the whole shebang at once.
> 
> Thanks, TiVo. You have a REAL competitor for the Comcast HD DVR now!
> 
> Bob


 The Motorola 6412 does have an active firewire output on the back to capture shows to your computer. If this had more storage I would buy it now.


----------



## dolfer

TexasGrillChef said:


> The eSATA from what I hear is in fact "Enabled" on this unit as it is "Enabled" on the S3. Just it won't be officially supported until they come out with their "BRANDED" Tivo eSATA drive.
> 
> TexasGrillChef


I really hope this is true! I can't wait until we get official confirmation on this...


----------



## bkdtv

_Repost from the Tivo Wild Spec thread:_

Official TivoHD Specifications (TCD652160)
 Broadcom BCM7401 DVR CPU w/ integrated MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 decoders
 256MB DDR400 SDRAM (4x NANYA NT5DS32M16BS-5U)
 160GB Western Digital WD1600AVBS SATA hard drive
 2x ATI Theater 314 QAM/VSB demodulators (for tuners)
 2x Philips/NXT SAA7138CHL ADCs
 1x VIXS XCode 2115 IC w/ dedicated 32MB DDR400 SDRAM (2x NANYA NT5DS8M16FS-5T)
 CableCard interface
 [email protected] encoders

 Silicon Image SiI5723 Dual SATA controller
 Xilinx Spartan-3 XC3S200 FPGA
 10/100Mbps Ethernet
 Standard Tivo remote
 $299 MSRP

TivoHD Advantages
 MSRP is $500 less ($299 vs $799) thanks to newer, more integrated components
 TivoHD has ~7% faster CPU (450 MIPS vs 420 MIPS)
 TivoHD has twice the usable system memory (256MB vs 128MB)
 Supports MCARDs out of the box.
 Consumes less power.

TivoHD Disadvantages
 Smaller hard drive (160GB vs 250GB).
 eSATA expansion is not yet functional _Edit: The 9.2 software adds official eSATA support._
 No THX certification.
 No piano black enclosure with OLED display.
 No slick, learning remote (sold separately for $50).
 No bundled HDMI cable.
 Drivers for new components potentially less mature / optimized.
 Potentially slower disk I/O, which may hurt responsiveness.
The Broadcom BCM7401 in the TivoHD has a single 1.5Gbps SATA channel that is "split" for the internal SATA and eSATA connections using the Silicon Image SiI5723. In contrast, the BCM7038 in the Series3 had a dual-channel SATA controller, so no "splitting" was required. This may negatively impact disk I/O when both internal and eSATA drives are used, and Tivo responsiveness is highly dependent on disk I/O. The SiI5723 does support several RAID modes that could potentially improve random I/O.


----------



## bkdtv

TexasGrillChef said:


> The eSATA from what I hear is in fact "Enabled" on this unit as it is "Enabled" on the S3. Just it won't be officially supported until they come out with their "BRANDED" Tivo eSATA drive.


*This is not correct.*

See FAQ #2 of the Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion. FAQ #2 was added at Tivo's request.

Tivo is working to add eSATA support to the TivoHD with a future software update. According to Tivo's web site, eSATA support is coming "late 2007." But the current Kickstart 62 method to enable eSATA does *not* work. If you've reviewed the above specifications, it may be clear why.


----------



## dolfer

bkdtv said:


> *This is not correct.*
> 
> See FAQ #2 of the Series3 eSATA Drive Expansion: FAQ + Discussion. FAQ #2 was added at Tivo's request.
> 
> Tivo is working to add eSATA support to the TivoHD with a future software update. According to Tivo's web site, eSATA support is coming "late 2007." But the current Kickstart 62 method to enable eSATA does *not* work. If you've reviewed the above specifications, it may be clear why.


Thanks for the info...

HD Newbie Question...

Since the new Tivo will only have 20 hours of HD storage, can I split my cable so that I can still use my Series2? That way I could use S2 for analog and the Tivo HD for HD.

Basically I don't know if a CableCard set up allows for splitting. And yes I realize that the S2 would only be able to receive analog and non-premium channels.

Also, does Time Warner or others currently have the M-Card?


----------



## Teledatageek

rainwater said:


> That is incorrect. You can transfer any subscription to another box. You will have to buy the box at retail and not from Tivo.com however. All you do is buy the box and login to Tivo.com to change the TSN. It takes about 2 minutes to do.


Wondering if I screwed up.....

I have an S3 and had a non-working S2 that I hadn't canceled yet. So, yesterday I call Tivo to cancel the S2 as I thought the new HD Tivo would be few/several weeks out and it seemed dumb to keep paying on the non-working S2.

So, now I want to buy the new HD Tivo for $299 from Tivo.com but I have to get a plan with it so it appears.

Is the best bet to buy a pre-paid $299.00 plan? Then I'm presuming the existing would drop to $6.95 per month.

Am I going about this the right way?!


----------



## Maverickster

Alirght, I'm getting ready to buy this thing and I just need to make sure I have the subscription "system" down right. 

It's my understanding that you cannot do a lifetime transfer from either a Series2 box (which I currently own) or from one of the qualifying "grandfathered" Series1 boxes (which I would have to go buy). Correct?

So, my only option is to sell my existing Series2 Box w/ Lifetime & 300 GB HDD on eBay, buy a new TiVoHD, and EITHER:

1. Buy a Lifetime Gift Card with some time left on it on eBay (will these work with the TiVoHD?); or
2. Pay for a new subscription for the new TiVoHD (probably 3-year, since they're running that at the price of a 2-year right now).

Correct?

Thanks in advance.

--Mav


----------



## Sandlapper

So what's the differences in the S3 and the HD? 

Smaller HDD, no LED display on the front, and non THX certification?

Am I missing anything?


----------



## atmuscarella

> Originally Posted by *Teledatageek*
> Then I'm presuming the existing would drop to $6.95 per month.


This is no longer true, MSD are now available on new subscriptions only. If you buy a per-paid plan you will not get the discount on your existing TiVo.

Good Luck


----------



## dolfer

Sandlapper said:


> So what's the differences in the S3 and the HD?
> 
> Smaller HDD, no LED display on the front, and non THX certification?
> 
> Am I missing anything?


no eSATA (at least currently) and no fancy remote


----------



## Sandlapper

dolfer said:


> no eSATA (at least currently) and no fancy remote


Refresh my memory, isn't eSATA just something to do with HDD's?


----------



## robmfielding

I just ordered a Tivo HD from Best Buy and was told by a Tivo Rep that the grandfather lifetime transfer is eligible if is bought from a retailer. He said if you buy the Tivo HD from Tivo directly it was not being offered. He in fact put a note on my account regarding it and said they would have to give it to me when I called back.


----------



## dolfer

Sandlapper said:


> Refresh my memory, isn't eSATA just something to do with HDD's?


Yes, eSATA let's you easily add an external hard drive to your Tivo without cracking the case or doing any hard core hacking.

There is an easy hack that let's you activate the eSATA port on the Series3. However, apparently, this hack does not work on the Tivo HD.


----------



## Teledatageek

atmuscarella said:


> This is no longer true, MSD are now available on new subscriptions only. If you buy a per-paid plan you will not get the discount on your existing TiVo.
> 
> Good Luck


Update......

So, I call Tivo and basically I'm hosed because I canceled my account on the S2. Seems like they would cut me a little slack and let me reactivate but they won't.

The rep also said that MSD does not apply to units purchased from Tivo direct and suggested I buy one from BestBuy, Circuit City, etc.

While I'm talking to her, I log into my Tivo.com account and it says that I AM eligible for MSD when buying the unit from Tivo.com. Of course to get the rate of $6.95, I have to commit to three years. Pre-paid does not quality as you state. The rep had no idea what I was talking about and still encouraged me to buy from a retailer to get the MSD. Seems dumb to me as I'm sure Tivo makes more $$ on the sale of direct units.....


----------



## dvr4me

Just an FYI that my order from Best Buy is now showing completed.


----------



## bkdtv

dvr4me said:


> Just an FYI that my order from Best Buy is now showing completed.


If you get a shipping notice from Best Buy, please let us know.


----------



## spelcheker

Just one simple question. If I hook up an external antenna to get broadcast HD, can I record 2 HD broadcasts at the same time? Scoured this thread and main site and can't figure this out.


----------



## gbronzer

bkdtv said:


> If you get a shipping notice from Best Buy, please let us know.


I bought mine from BB.com last night and got a tracking number this morning. The tracking number isn't active yet though, but still, it means it's probably sitting on the dock waiting to be picked up by UPS.

I'm also going to attempt to transfer my grandfathered lifetime sub to this Tivo, so if the above comment about it having to not be bought from Tivo is true, I'll let everyone know.


----------



## bkdtv

spelcheker said:


> Just one simple question. If I hook up an external antenna to get broadcast HD, can I record 2 HD broadcasts at the same time? Scoured this thread and main site and can't figure this out.


Yes. You can record two different HD broadcasts while watching a third, previously recorded HD broadcast.


----------



## CharlesH

bkdtv said:


> Yes. You can record two different HD broadcasts while watching a third, previously recorded HD broadcast.


In other words, in the S3 and HD TiVo, both the antenna and cable inputs go to both tuners, so you can be recording two programs from either source at the same time (while watching something already recorded on the TiVo, if you want).


----------



## rainwater

dolfer said:


> no eSATA (at least currently) and no fancy remote


The TiVo HD does have a eSATA port so that information is false. While its been reported the same hack from the S3 software doesn't work to enable it, you can assume that will change in a future software update.


----------



## bigusmfan

Try your local Circuit City B&M. Mine had at least 2 instock today. They're not out on the shelf yet but they showed up in the inventory check online. This is really useful if you have a 40 off 199 like I did (from USPS changing address packet).


----------



## dvr4me

bigusmfan said:


> Try your local Circuit City B&M. Mine had at least 2 instock today. They're not out on the shelf yet but they showed up in the inventory check online. This is really useful if you have a 40 off 199 like I did (from USPS changing address packet).


A couple of Circuit City stores in the Minneapolis area are showing in store stock (you can order online and pick it up in store). Quite nice that they are actually in store the same week as the announcement. Kudos to Tivo.


----------



## gimpyestrada

I am currently receiving over the air HD programming. Say my local digital NBC analog channel is 3. Now my Digital signal is 3.1 and this is _sometimes_ HD and sometimes not.

If my TiVo HD is recording on channel 3.1 and it is an HD program, obviously it would fall into the "20 hours of HD" bucket.

However if my TiVo HD is recording on channel 3.1 and it is not an HD program, does it fall into the 20 hour bucket or is it considered SD?

Another way of asking the same question: Are non-HD programs received over the digital signal considered SD or HD?


----------



## acheslow

If I want to get 2 new Tivo HD boxes will my best monthly cost be a 3-year prepaid plan at $299 and a 3-year month-to-month at $6.95 for MSD? Will it make a difference if I buy either the boxes or the service from Tivo direct or from a retailer?

I have a lifetime subscription to a DirecTV box with Tivo, which I guess is worthless to the Tivo HD, correct? Since I'm not using that box anymore is my best bet to eBay it with the lifetime sub?

Edit: For extra credit... Does anyone know what Comcast (Seattle area) will charge me for the CableCards? According to their website it looks like the first card in each box is free, and the second (if I can't get an M-card) would be up to $1.91/month... plus I'd pay ($5.10 ??) for the "additional outlet". Does that look right? Is there anyway to get around the "additional outlet" fee if both boxes are plugged into the same outlet via a splitter?

Thanks,
Alan


----------



## Sandlapper

gimpyestrada said:


> I am currently receiving over the air HD programming. Say my local digital NBC analog channel is 3. Now my Digital signal is 3.1 and this is _sometimes_ HD and sometimes not.
> 
> If my TiVo HD is recording on channel 3.1 and it is an HD program, obviously it would fall into the "20 hours of HD" bucket.
> 
> However if my TiVo HD is recording on channel 3.1 and it is not an HD program, does it fall into the 20 hour bucket or is it considered SD?
> 
> Another way of asking the same question: Are non-HD programs received over the digital signal considered SD or HD?


I've wondered this myself when recording on my DVR from Charter. Let's say I record Surivovor on the "HD" station, but it's an SD program, is it taking up as much room as normal HD shows?


----------



## MickeS

gimpyestrada said:


> I am currently receiving over the air HD programming. Say my local digital NBC analog channel is 3. Now my Digital signal is 3.1 and this is _sometimes_ HD and sometimes not.
> 
> If my TiVo HD is recording on channel 3.1 and it is an HD program, obviously it would fall into the "20 hours of HD" bucket.
> 
> However if my TiVo HD is recording on channel 3.1 and it is not an HD program, does it fall into the 20 hour bucket or is it considered SD?
> 
> Another way of asking the same question: Are non-HD programs received over the digital signal considered SD or HD?


I think the only difference is that a digital HD show takes up more space than a digital SD show. The "20 hours of HD bucket" is not something that's separate from the "180 hours of analog recording" - that's just two measures of the total hard drive space.

So yes, I'm pretty sure the non-HD recordings on channel 3.1 will take up less space than an HD recording on the same channel.


----------



## btwyx

MickeS said:


> So yes, I'm pretty sure the non-HD recordings on channel 3.1 will take up less space than an HD recording on the same channel.


Not necessarily. It depends on how the TV station sends its. It could take up as much room, it could take up less room, it could take up more room, it could change during the day. The only way you know for sure is to record it and then look in the info screen for the file size.

Also its not a hard "20 hours", that depends on how the TV station sends the signal. It could be a lot more than 20 hours, I don't think it can be less than that.


----------



## aus1ander

That is an interesting question because, in theory, OTA digital SD is upconverted to 720p or 1080i. So, in theory, it should take up more space than an analog station showing the same content... anyone know if this is right?

An HD datastream will definitely take significantly more space on the drive, either way.


----------



## bkdtv

aus1ander said:


> That is an interesting question because, in theory, OTA digital SD is upconverted to 720p or 1080i. So, in theory, it should take up more space than an analog station showing the same content... anyone know if this is right?
> 
> An HD datastream will definitely take significantly more space on the drive, either way.


Upconverted SD takes about the same space as high-definition. Depending on the station's encoder, actual HD on a 1080i channel might consume 16Mbps and upconverted SD might consume 12Mbps. Neither is comparable to the typical 528x480 SD @ 3-4Mbps.

You should take the 20 hours of HD to mean 20 hours of recording from high-definition channels, which may or may not be showing actual HD at a given time.


----------



## classicsat

MickeS said:


> Does "dropped support" mean that no other adapters work with the HD? They never officially "supported" any other adapters, did they?


It doesn't mean they won't work, it just means you are totally on your own getting one to work, and it is not their fault it won't.


----------



## nenemc

What would be better, cost efficient vs time, to upgrade new tivo hd hard disc size or just get a series 3 and fork out more bucks?


----------



## aindik

If the station is sending its signal in 1080i or 720p, it will take up the full space of a 1080i or 720p signal, even if the actual content is upconverted 480i. Most of the networks send their main digital channel in the HD resolution 24/7, regardless of the quality of the source of a given program. So yeah, an hour off the CBS HD channel recording Dr. Phil in SD is going to take up as much space as an hour off the CBS HD channel recording CSI: Miami in HD. So, it behooves you to set your SPs for shows that aren't in HD on the SD channel, not the HD channel. 

It's going to take up about 8.5 GB per hour (assuming a gigabyte is 1024 megabytes, not 1000 megabytes). An HD channel is 19.38 Mbps (though, it may be less if they are using some bandwidth for secondary streams) = 2.4225 MBps = 145.35 MB per minute = 8721 MB per hour = 8.51 GB per hour.

The one exception from that general practice of using the same resolution 24/7 is PBS. Many PBS affiliates actually change the resolution from 1080i in primetime and on weekends to 480i during the weekday and late night. They do this to activate an additional multi-stream, which goes off the air when the main channel is in HD. When you record something off the PBS ATSC channel at a time they're not broadcasting in HD, the disk space it takes up will be much smaller.


----------



## knownzero

Well, I said I was going to wait...HA! Like that's going to happen.  I went to CC tonight and picked one up, I'm powering up right now and I'm going to start the setup process. I don't have the cabe cards yet but I have an antenna and I have some local HD channels that I can pick up (at least they do with my ATI HDTV Wonder card). I moved one of my old Tivo's service numbers over to the new Tivo which was pretty painless (I'm really glad I had a couple Tivo's on the old pricing plan, the new prices are harsh).

Edit: Why didn't anyone tell me that OTA HD looks so much better than what the Motorola HD box puts out?   Picture looks fantastic! Although I have to go through and delete about 50 channels from the OTA antenna that I can't actually get. Overall impressions so far are that the picture looks great, no pixellation, menu's are a lot more responsive than my S2. So far, I'm impressed.


----------



## netslacker

Pardon my intrusion... I have become an avid reader of this forum since the release of the TiVo HD just a couple days ago and this thread is dealing w/ a question that I have always had concerning the recording of HD and SD content.

It stands to reason that if you are recording from a digital channel (say 5.1) where all the content is upconverted to 1080i that anything recorded off that channel (either SD originally or HD) is taking up the whole 8.5gb / hour. Afterall, that is how the signal is being received by the tuner.

However, in my area (as well as others), all the shows are simulcast in _digital SD_ on say channel 5.2 where everything is sent at 480i on the digital sub-channel. Now I am not talking about NTSC/analog broadcasting, but rather the digital sub-channel of the same network.

So here's my assumptions and questions:

Assuming the above 1080i computation of ~8.5gb of disk space per hour then it stands to reason that 480i digital is going to be ~2-3gb per hour - being less than 1/4 the resolution.. (also assuming that digital signals are not reprocessed by the TiVo but stored to the drive as they are received). The compression settings only apply to NTSC/Analog signals and have no affect on an SD/HD digital signal.

Does TiVo HD (or Series 3) have TWO (2) ATSC tuners to tune OTA digital content or just one? I have seen this represented both ways and this is rather a make or break specification. Having a dual ATSC tuner DVR for OTA digital channels is the clincher that will make this new Tivo my next tech purchase. I cannot tune the analog signals as they are too weak (and no cable in the mountains), but my Sony ATSC tuner gets 20+ different digital channels OTA just fine and in perfect picture.

I have been eagerly waiting for TiVo to come out w/ an affordable HD DVR and now I just need to get these few questions cleared before making the dive BACK to TiVo.

Thanks in advance,
Rob


----------



## 1283

netslacker said:


> Does TiVo HD (or Series 3) have TWO (2) ATSC tuners to tune OTA digital content or just one?


two


----------



## aindik

netslacker said:


> Pardon my intrusion... I have become an avid reader of this forum since the release of the TiVo HD just a couple days ago and this thread is dealing w/ a question that I have always had concerning the recording of HD and SD content.
> 
> It stands to reason that if you are recording from a digital channel (say 5.1) where all the content is upconverted to 1080i that anything recorded off that channel (either SD originally or HD) is taking up the whole 8.5gb / hour. Afterall, that is how the signal is being received by the tuner.
> 
> However, in my area (as well as others), all the shows are simulcast in _digital SD_ on say channel 5.2 where everything is sent at 480i on the digital sub-channel. Now I am not talking about NTSC/analog broadcasting, but rather the digital sub-channel of the same network.
> 
> So here's my assumptions and questions:
> 
> Assuming the above 1080i computation of ~8.5gb of disk space per hour then it stands to reason that 480i digital is going to be ~2-3gb per hour - being less than 1/4 the resolution.. (also assuming that digital signals are not reprocessed by the TiVo but stored to the drive as they are received). The compression settings only apply to NTSC/Analog signals and have no affect on an SD/HD digital signal.
> 
> Does TiVo HD (or Series 3) have TWO (2) ATSC tuners to tune OTA digital content or just one? I have seen this represented both ways and this is rather a make or break specification. Having a dual ATSC tuner DVR for OTA digital channels is the clincher that will make this new Tivo my next tech purchase. I cannot tune the analog signals as they are too weak (and no cable in the mountains), but my Sony ATSC tuner gets 20+ different digital channels OTA just fine and in perfect picture.
> 
> I have been eagerly waiting for TiVo to come out w/ an affordable HD DVR and now I just need to get these few questions cleared before making the dive BACK to TiVo.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Rob


On an OTA channel, the TV station decides how much bandwidth to devote to each of the streams broadcast on their channel. It is given a total of 19.38 Mbps to work with. It can essentially split that up however it likes. The TiVo will just capture what it receives. Mbps can mathematically be converted to GB per hour. For simplicity, just multiply the bandwidth in mbps by 0.44 to obtain GB per hour.

It has two digital OTA tuners, two digital cable tuners, two analog OTA tuners and two analog cable tuners. Any two of these tuners can be used at the same time.


----------



## knownzero

c3 said:


> two


Verified. I just recorded an HD show OTA and then switched to another HD OTA show without problems.


----------



## Sandlapper

aindik said:


> If the station is sending its signal in 1080i or 720p, it will take up the full space of a 1080i or 720p signal, even if the actual content is upconverted 480i. Most of the networks send their main digital channel in the HD resolution 24/7, regardless of the quality of the source of a given program. So yeah, an hour off the CBS HD channel recording Dr. Phil in SD is going to take up as much space as an hour off the CBS HD channel recording CSI: Miami in HD. So, it behooves you to set your SPs for shows that aren't in HD on the SD channel, not the HD channel.


Well, there is a difference. For some reason the SD shows on the HD channels look better than they do on the analog channels, so I still tell it to record it on the HD channel. I guess its just the difference in one being a digital channel and the other analog.


----------



## knownzero

Interesting issue just came up. I'm watching the Tivo Video tours (yeah Shannon!) and the audio has completely dropped out (have it hooked up via HDMI). Until I play another video the menus have no sound. When I do hit play, there's a couple popping sounds and everything goes back to normal. Not sure what's causing it, the HDMI, my TV or the Tivo...


----------



## aindik

Sandlapper said:


> Well, there is a difference. For some reason the SD shows on the HD channels look better than they do on the analog channels, so I still tell it to record it on the HD channel. I guess its just the difference in one being a digital channel and the other analog.


Yes, there is a difference in quality. The question is whether the difference is worth 8X the hard disk space. That's a question only you can answer.


----------



## netslacker

@c3
@aindik
@knownzero

wow! that was fast and great response! What an awesome forum! Thanks for the replies, this is all great news for me as this has been two years in the making since we moved and had to give up my series 2....


----------



## knownzero

netslacker said:


> @c3
> @aindik
> @knownzero
> 
> wow! that was fast and great response! What an awesome forum! Thanks for the replies, this is all great news for me as this has been two years in the making since we moved and had to give up my series 2....


No problem, welcome to the forums! I can't wait to get the cablecards installed and get rid of the darn cableco DVR.


----------



## bkdtv

Sandlapper said:


> Well, there is a difference. For some reason the SD shows on the HD channels look better than they do on the analog channels, so I still tell it to record it on the HD channel. I guess its just the difference in one being a digital channel and the other analog.


The improvement you see is the result of 1) a higher quality source and 2) less compression.

Most cable providers encode their SD digital channels at 528x480 or 544x480. In contrast, on the HD channels, most networks upconvert the original D1 source (720x480).

Upconverted SD is also less highly compressed (relatively) than digital SD.


----------



## jfh3

gbnyc said:


> I tried again today, and the rep explained that they got a communication yesterday morning, about grandfather transfers of lifetime, code 09-07-04, specifically telling them that it is not available for the new TiVoHD. Each rep I spoke with knew exactly what I was talking about, knew the code number before I had to give it to them, and said that it is NOT available for this model. If anyone has a different experience, please post.


Wow. Guess we'll have to wait for Stephen or Pony to weigh in on this one.

If it were me, I'd ask for a case # and to be transfered to a supervisor - that's a pretty big (and unannounced) policy change, if true.


----------



## supasta

Enable TTG and MRV on the TiVoHD and I will pick 2 up in a snap to replace my 2 DT units. That is #1. Second only to that is the cost/options of eSATA storage expansion.


----------



## jfh3

acheslow said:


> If I want to get 2 new Tivo HD boxes will my best monthly cost be a 3-year prepaid plan at $299 and a 3-year month-to-month at $6.95 for MSD? Will it make a difference if I buy either the boxes or the service from Tivo direct or from a retailer?


Buy the first box from Tivo with the $299 prepaid. Buy the second box from a retailer and get the 3 yr month to month.



> I have a lifetime subscription to a DirecTV box with Tivo, which I guess is worthless to the Tivo HD, correct? Since I'm not using that box anymore is my best bet to eBay it with the lifetime sub?


Yes, but a DirecTV lifetime sub stays with the account, not the box, so I'd be surprised if you get much for it on eBay.



> Edit: For extra credit... Does anyone know what Comcast (Seattle area) will charge me for the CableCards? According to their website it looks like the first card in each box is free, and the second (if I can't get an M-card) would be up to $1.91/month... plus I'd pay ($5.10 ??) for the "additional outlet". Does that look right? Is there anyway to get around the "additional outlet" fee if both boxes are plugged into the same outlet via a splitter?


Can't answer for sure about Seattle area, but an additional outlet charge should not apply. As for the CableCARDs, the first is included in any digital package, the second should be $1.50, so maybe $1.91 has some other fees included in that price.


----------



## btwyx

nenemc said:


> What would be better, cost efficient vs time, to upgrade new tivo hd hard disc size or just get a series 3 and fork out more bucks?


Most cost efficient would be to buy an HD TiVo and put the money saved vs the S3 towards an HD upgrade. Most time efficient would be to buy a pre upgraded one from Weaknees or other vendor.

If I were buying one today, I'd be be buying an HD TiVO and a 1TB upgrade.


----------



## megory

jfh3 said:


> Buy the first box from Tivo with the $299 prepaid. Buy the second box from a retailer and get the 3 yr month to month.


Please explain the advantages of that? I'm thoroughly confused now about 3-year month-to-month, etc.


----------



## megory

Go Hokies and Rainwater: Thanks, I think I'll order from Circuit City. Seems like a bad decision for TiVo to make their pricing plan so convoluted that we need to buy elsewhere . . . but, um, that's not_ my_ problem.

But don't you think I'm safer if I cancel my TiVo service before my month is up (July 5), and then get new 3-year service from TiVo?


----------



## megory

HDTiVo said:


> I don't even charge. Looks like I'm leaving money on the table.
> 
> Spend your money on a TiVo HD.
> 
> (And unfortunately its the same *old * HDTiVo anyway.  )


I don't really understand your suggstion. If you're saying to buy the expensive HDTivo instead of the new TiVo light, no can do. My HDTV died a few weeks ago, and I have to replace that too.


----------



## megory

dvr4me said:


> Megory, where did you originally buy the S2?
> 
> If you bought it from Tivo, it is part of a package and you cannot transfer the subscription to another unit regardless of where you buy the new unit.
> 
> I bought an S2 from Tivo 2 weeks ago. I called them Monday 7/23 to find out what the return process involves and whether I could just transfer my sub. The rep explained that you cannot transfer the sub from a "packaged tivo".
> 
> The rep actually told me that it is a better deal to buy one from retail and then purchase a subscription because then you could transfer the subscription after you received the retail rebate. It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me to allow people to buy a tivo box, buy a subscription, get the rebate, then allow them to buy another box and transfer the sub to the new box. You'd think that you'd need to keep the box active for the length of the sub so then it would be free and clear... What would prevent someone from buying a $55 box after rebate and just keep switching the sub from box to box and sell the boxes on ebay?...
> 
> Long story short, since I was in my first month I called Tivo and arranged a return for full credit. The rep really wanted me to keep the S2 but with the Tivo HD coming out I saw no reason. Once you start the return process, the sub is cancelled and you need to get the box back to Tivo within 15 days or a "non-refundable, non-returned equipment fee will be charged for the box" ($250).


DVRMe: I've had my Humax800 as well as SVR2000 and SVR3000 (currently unregistered) for several years, and just re-upped my Humax only, under the new, exciting price plan <vbg>

So, when I'm ready, I'll either give my old TiVos away or sell them on eBay.

Sounds like returning your box was the best way to go!


----------



## megory

Anyone here have BrightHouse in Tampabay or have a clue what cards will cost and procedure/experience in getting cards for your HDTiVo?

Will the cards be the same for the HDTiVo light?


----------



## jrm01

megory said:


> Go Hokies and Rainwater: Thanks, I think I'll order from Circuit City. Seems like a bad decision for TiVo to make their pricing plan so convoluted that we need to buy elsewhere . . . but, um, that's not_ my_ problem.
> 
> But don't you think I'm safer if I cancel my TiVo service before my month is up (July 5), and then get new 3-year service from TiVo?


Actually I think that Tivo has attempted to clarify their pricing plans. If you create an account on Tivo.com and enter your desired purchases it shows you what the sub price options are (including MSD).


----------



## oldnacl

I have a question regarding the new TiVo HD:
For anyone who has one - can you watch a recorded show while sending another show to VCR? That's one feature the SA8300HD STB offers that I REALLY missed on the S3.


----------



## jblake

oldnacl said:


> I have a question regarding the new TiVo HD:
> For anyone who has one - can you watch a recorded show while sending another show to VCR? That's one feature the SA8300HD STB offers that I REALLY missed on the S3.


No. All the outputs show the same program.


----------



## Globular

oldnacl said:


> I have a question regarding the new TiVo HD:
> For anyone who has one - can you watch a recorded show while sending another show to VCR? That's one feature the SA8300HD STB offers that I REALLY missed on the S3.


What is this.. this... VCR of which you speak?


----------



## jrm01

Globular said:


> What is this.. this... VCR of which you speak?


Very Crappy Recorder


----------



## megory

jrm01 said:


> Actually I think that Tivo has attempted to clarify their pricing plans. If you create an account on Tivo.com and enter your desired purchases it shows you what the sub price options are (including MSD).


I'm happy to hear that the pricing plans are clear to you.

Perhaps I misunderstand, but I don't think it relates to getting a better plan/price from buying elsewhere, and/or canceling service, does it?

Whatever, their policies are not within my purview, so I will do what y'all tell me is best <vbg>


----------



## Dmon4u

The bland not-so-informative PC World video:

http://www.pcworld.com/video/id,560-page,1-bid,0/video.html


----------



## HDTiVo

megory said:


> I don't really understand your suggstion. If you're saying to buy the expensive HDTivo instead of the new TiVo light, no can do. My HDTV died a few weeks ago, and I have to replace that too.


TiVo doesn't sell an HDTiVo. And HDTiVo isn't for sale either.

So I recommend you spend your money on a TiVo HD. :up:


----------



## jkalnin

Please forgive my ignorance on pricing plans but....
I have a S2 with lifetime service. Right now there is no transfer to the new HD tivo - correct.
If I buy a new HD Tivo from Circuit City (or TIvo.com) is it elidigible for MSD of $6.95 a month? (Edit: answer is YES)

Also, can I just hook my digital cable box to it without getting a cable card? I am a bit confused on this feature. 

One last question - can I connect the HD tivo to my PC to transfer shows - ala Tivo-to-go? (Answer: NO! - in FAQ on Tivo)

EDIT: I answered some of my own questions.


----------



## gbnyc

I'm on the phone now with TiVo. Rep says that they reversed their policy since yesterday, and now will honor a grandfather transfer for the new TiVo HD!



gbnyc said:


> I tried again today, and the rep explained that they got a communication yesterday morning, about grandfather transfers of lifetime, code 09-07-04, specifically telling them that it is not available for the new TiVoHD. Each rep I spoke with knew exactly what I was talking about, knew the code number before I had to give it to them, and said that it is NOT available for this model. If anyone has a different experience, please post.


----------



## Eitel

jkalnin said:


> Also, can I just hook my digital cable box to it without getting a cable card? I am a bit confused on this feature.


Yes. You will just need to re-run guided setup if you get cable cards in the future.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

megory said:


> Go Hokies and Rainwater: Thanks, I think I'll order from Circuit City. Seems like a bad decision for TiVo to make their pricing plan so convoluted that we need to buy elsewhere . . . but, um, that's not_ my_ problem.
> 
> But don't you think I'm safer if I cancel my TiVo service before my month is up (July 5), and then get new 3-year service from TiVo?


the plans are not convoluted in the least.

buy both TiVo HDs from anywhere. go to activate service and get the 3 yr prepaid on the first. then activate the second and do the 3yr comittment and get the MSD rate


----------



## jrm01

jkalnin said:


> Also, can I just hook my digital cable box to it without getting a cable card? I am a bit confused on this feature.


No you can't. The Tivo HD does not have the capability to control a set top box. You can connect the coax directly into the Tivo and get basic channels until you get cablecards.


----------



## BlackBetty

The fact that cable cards are not bi-directional is holding me back. I like having VOD and being able to order PPV. Losing those features is not worth it to me.

Is there a time line for bi-directional cards? Or is it up in the air?


----------



## Balzer

I purchased an original Phillips Tivo in the fall of 2001, and it has worked great. A few years ago, I started using a Motorola HD DVR from my cable company with my HDTV. When I started using the cable box, I called Tivo to cancel my Tivo service. They said since I was a "good customer", they would lower my monthly rate to $6.95 if I kept the Tivo service. I said sure, since I still use the Tivo in my computer room, as a backup in case I have a 3rd show that I want to record at the same time.

Now that I've ordered a TivoHD, I am wondering if I would be able to transfer that Tivo service to the new DVR, and keep my $6.95 rate...

This is what the FAQ says...

----------
How Do I Transfer My TiVo Service to a New DVR?

You can transfer any service agreement to another TiVo DVR of any make or model at any time. 
----------

Yea, I doubt it, but I will try. It says to do it under "Manage My Account". From what I've read, my Series1 is old enough that it may work for manually recording shows without the Tivo service.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jeff


----------



## ZeoTiVo

jkalnin said:


> Also, can I just hook my digital cable box to it without getting a cable card? I am a bit confused on this feature.
> 
> One last question - can I connect the HD tivo to my PC to transfer shows - ala Tivo-to-go? (Answer: NO! - in FAQ on Tivo)
> 
> EDIT: I answered some of my own questions.


you can not hook the cable box up to the TiVo HD. There is no way for it to ocntrol the box like a sereis 2 does. So leave the cable box on the DT.
You can hook the cable up and get all the analog channels only or get cable cards and get both analog and digital.

Correct there is no TiVoTogo for now. TiVo has stated they are working on enabling it on the S3 line by the end of the year.


----------



## dvr4me

gbnyc said:


> I'm on the phone now with TiVo. Rep says that they reversed their policy since yesterday, and now will honor a grandfather transfer for the new TiVo HD!


Updated information regarding this on [post=5351201]the TiVo HD FAQ.[/post] Thanks!


----------



## ZeoTiVo

BlackBetty said:


> The fact that cable cards are not bi-directional is holding me back. I like having VOD and being able to order PPV. Losing those features is not worth it to me.
> 
> Is there a time line for bi-directional cards? Or is it up in the air?


the cards themselves do not do the talking back to the cable company. Cable companies have proposed a bi-directional standard that includes current cable card and a docsis modem and an OCAP system that runs java code. That is a lot of extra to ask Tivo and even more so a TV manufacturer to include so the Consumer Electronics Association has not signed off on such an onerous standard and nothing fast is happening. A big stumbling block as well is the cable companies legitimate desire to control how PPV/VOd is presented to the customer which of course raises some big complications for a 3rd party like TiVo that wants to woark on any cable company system


----------



## dirk1843

I saw an HDTiVo at local CC yesterday. No pricing and I wasn't even sure what it was unitl I started looking on TiVo's site today.


----------



## acheslow

BlackBetty said:


> The fact that cable cards are not bi-directional is holding me back. I like having VOD and being able to order PPV. Losing those features is not worth it to me.


I felt the same way until I considered the Amazon Unbox service as a replacement for VOD. Have you checked out the content available "on demand" from Amazon?


----------



## jkalnin

It sounds to me like you can still use OnDemand, just not through Tivo HD. Just have the cable split, one goes to converter box, other goes to HD Tivo. Connect Tivo to TV in one input, then the converter box to another. I didn't say it was the perfect solution, just a workaround.


----------



## Eitel

jkalnin said:


> It sounds to me like you can still use OnDemand, just not through Tivo HD. Just have the cable split, one goes to converter box, other goes to HD Tivo. Connect Tivo to TV in one input, then the converter box to another. I didn't say it was the perfect solution, just a workaround.


The thing is that the HD Tivo doesn't work with a converter box. So you will be paying for two outlets of service in order to do this.


----------



## Dmon4u

With Comcast making their final plans for Switched Digital Video ( http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6463304.html ), I'm a bit concerned since FiOS TV is probably a year away in my area.


----------



## bareyb

Eitel said:


> The thing is that the HD Tivo doesn't work with a converter box. So you will be paying for two outlets of service in order to do this.


Yep. That's what we do. We have the Comcast DVR for On Demand stuff and then use the S3's for everything else including PPV. We do have to pay for the extra box. In fact, Comcast has told us we can't get any PPV on the S3 unless we have their box to i"use as a gateway". It's about 12 bucks a month extra.


----------



## dolfer

Does anyone know if "Open Cable Card" is the same thing as M-Card? More importantly is the Tivo HD compatible with it??

Time Warner Cincinnati mentions two types of cards on their web site. The Open Cable Card is capable of 2 way communication and is obviously preferable.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/Cincinnati/Products/Cable/CableCard_SA.html


----------



## dolfer

dolfer said:


> Does anyone know if "Open Cable Card" is the same thing as M-Card? More importantly is the Tivo HD compatible with it??
> 
> Time Warner Cincinnati mentions two types of cards on their web site. The Open Cable Card is capable of 2 way communication and is obviously preferable.
> 
> http://www.timewarnercable.com/Cincinnati/Products/Cable/CableCard_SA.html


Nevermind... Judging from the photo of the card at the top of the page (s) which has "Multi-Stream" and "M-Card" stamped on it I guess they are the same thing!


----------



## cr33p

dvr4me said:


> Updated information regarding this on [post=5351201]the TiVo HD FAQ.[/post] Thanks!


Im looking at one right now on Ebay  TivoHD here I come ;P


----------



## aindik

Not being able to get rid of my "additional outlet fee," that makes the difference between a) the TiVo box fee plus three years under the MSD at $6.95, and b)three years of $11.95 for the DVR with Comcast, $132.17. IOW, the TiVoHD costs $132.17 (present value) more than the Comcast DVR over an assumed three year life, for someone eligible for MSD. Is it worth it? On the pro side, there's the TiVo software and the ability to expand the storage space and integrate my HD recording and my SD recording on a single box with a single Now Playing list. On the con side, there's the price and the loss of VOD. Decisions decisions.


----------



## aus1ander

Just opened mine and going through guided setup as I type. I must say, it looks much nicer in person than in the pictures. It looks really shoddy and cheap in all the pictures, but up close, it looks pretty cool.


----------



## dolfer

aus1ander said:


> Just opened mine and going through guided setup as I type. I must say, it looks much nicer in person than in the pictures. It looks really shoddy and cheap in all the pictures, but up close, it looks pretty cool.


Are you using an M-Card???? Who is your cable provider?


----------



## megory

HDTiVo said:


> TiVo doesn't sell an HDTiVo. And HDTiVo isn't for sale either.
> 
> So I recommend you spend your money on a TiVo HD. :up:


 ROFL!! TiVo® Series3 HD DVR , 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR!  Please forgive me! I sit corrected <vbg>


----------



## megory

ZeoTiVo said:


> the plans are not convoluted in the least.
> 
> buy both TiVo HDs from anywhere. go to activate service and get the 3 yr prepaid on the first. then activte the second and do the 3yr comittment and get the MSD rate


 Zeo, I already have a registered box and I'm in my first 30 days of service. When I get the 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR, I want to transfer my 3-year contract to the new box and discontinue the Humax.

So far, the SOAK has been (at least my understanding was) to buy the new TiVo HD DVR from another source, e.g., Circuit City, WITHOUT a TiVo contract, and _then_ transfer service to the new TiVo HD DVR box. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I figure TiVo then loses the extra profit on the box to Circuit City.


----------



## aus1ander

dolfer said:


> Are you using an M-Card???? Who is your cable provider?


No M-card... no cable cards for that matter (yet). I have a proprietary cable company that does not offer cable cards, but I get all the networks OTA by antenna. I'm eventually moving and will use Charter then.


----------



## aus1ander

So after playing around with the TiVoHD, I only have one gripe (which I knew about before buying it). Why would TiVo just pull the standard menu typeface thats meant to be 4:3 and just stretch it to a widescreen format? It looks pretty bad. You think as they move to having multiple platforms that they would support widescreen tvs better, especially since 90% of TVs sold today are high definition sets.

Otherwise, the TiVoHD pretty much lives up to all the reviews. I haven't played with it enough to see if there are audio sync issues (will be recording some HD shows tonight).


----------



## Stainless Steele

I tried to activate it last night but the rep said they were so new that the S/Ns were not in the system and to call back to night. So when I get home we will see! I have to say it's a very nice looking box!


----------



## Illrigger

Just ordered my Tivo HD! I had a Philips Series 1 many long years ago, but strayed away to MCE for a few years. With all the new issues brought on by the HD era (I'm too far from the broadcast towers to get all my locals from OTA, QAM not including all of them, and CableCARD-ready PCs a minimum of $1300), the THD seems by far the best thing going.

I called my local cable company (my city power company provides cable TV and internet, competing head on with Comcast), and they just got their m-cards in last week! Now I just need to wait for my THD to arrive; is there really a 3 week wait?


----------



## megory

aus1ander said:


> No M-card... no cable cards for that matter (yet). I have a proprietary cable company that does not offer cable cards, but I get all the networks OTA by antenna. I'm eventually moving and will use Charter then.


First, Congratulations!

Next . . . I thought ALL cable companies were required by FCC mandate to provide cable cards. I have written to BrightHouse (lacking any info about Bright House cards either here or on their website) to inquire about the cards before I order.

I'm interested in what I can receive _without_ cable too. That sounds very interesting.


----------



## aus1ander

megory said:


> First, Congratulations!
> 
> Next . . . I thought ALL cable companies were required by FCC mandate to provide cable cards. I have written to BrightHouse (lacking any info about Bright House cards either here or on their website) to inquire about the cards before I order.
> 
> I'm interested in what I can receive _without_ cable too. That sounds very interesting.


My cable company is sorta... fake? I live in one of those apartment complexes that subcontracts out cable delivery, so the "cable company" I have just resells satellite channels over a standard analog. They also offer satellite signal from a central dish for both Dish and Directv. So I'm sure they call themselves a "satellite reseller" and get a waiver from the cable card mandate. Either way, I get my HD channels OTA for free, with the exception of HBO, which I get from Dish Network (which I can't record with TiVoHD, but that doesn't really bother me since I tend to watch it live anyway).


----------



## jmpage2

If I buy one of these is it possible to go month to month on service to "try it out" and then once I am happy with it get the contract discount?

I'm concerned about SDV but definitely tempted to take the plunge. Now I just need one of those $40 off Circuit City coupons I've been hearing about


----------



## knownzero

I ordered my cablecards today from Insight. The rep on the phone (who was very nice!) had to put me on hold for a minute to check on the pricing (the first is free and the second is $1.99 if I keep my existing box). She asked if I was putting these in my TV's and I said no, it was for a Tivo HD and she says that they haven't done many of those but she was familiar with it. Hopefully that bodes well for the install on Monday. Also, since we're only talking about $1.99 extra a month, I'm going to keep the cable company DVR. It's not enough of a savings to get rid of it plus the thought of recording 4 HD streams at once gives me the warm and fuzzies.


----------



## ZeoTiVo

megory said:


> Zeo, I already have a registered box and I'm in my first 30 days of service. When I get the 180-hour TiVo® HD DVR, I want to transfer my 3-year contract to the new box and discontinue the Humax.
> 
> So far, the SOAK has been (at least my understanding was) to buy the new TiVo HD DVR from another source, e.g., Circuit City, WITHOUT a TiVo contract, and _then_ transfer service to the new TiVo HD DVR box. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I figure TiVo then loses the extra profit on the box to Circuit City.


ah, Ok missed that part.

yes you need to get a TiVo HD without service and then transfer the 3 yr comiyymnet off the HUMAX. That will keep the exact same terms as you have now on the HUMAX.

I have not looked but my understanding is you have to get service as well when ordering from TiVo.com so Best BUy or Circuit City is the way to go. Then get the TSN oin the TiVo HD and go to the we b site- manage my account and switch out the TSN on the 3 yr contract.


----------



## gbronzer

*SUCCESS!!!*

I bought a TivoHD from BestBuy. Got it today, called Tivo and moved my grandfathered lifetime subscription from my old S1 to my new TivoHD. They knew exactly what I was talking about, and did it right away.

Now for the hard part, dealing with the cable company.


----------



## bareyb

gbronzer said:


> *SUCCESS!!!*
> 
> I bought a TivoHD from BestBuy. Got it today, called Tivo and moved my grandfathered lifetime subscription from my old S1 to my new TivoHD. They knew exactly what I was talking about, and did it right away.
> 
> Now for the hard part, dealing with the cable company.


Hey you never know... A lot of folks get things working right off the bat these days. It's not nearly as hit and miss as it used to be. We will all keep our collective fingers crossed for you. Make sure they bring a couple extra cable cards and ask for a trained tech and not a contractor. Good luck. Can't wait to hear how you like it.


----------



## megory

ZeoTiVo said:


> ah, Ok missed that part.
> 
> yes you need to get a TiVo HD without service and then transfer the 3 yr comiyymnet off the HUMAX. That will keep the exact same terms as you have now on the HUMAX.
> 
> I have not looked but my understanding is you have to get service as well when ordering from TiVo.com so Best BUy or Circuit City is the way to go. Then get the TSN oin the TiVo HD and go to the we b site- manage my account and switch out the TSN on the 3 yr contract.


Heheh. I figured that you had missed it.

My speaking of the convoluted TiVo billing was that I should be able to handle it all through TiVo, then they could get the profit of my and other sales. Instead, we must turn to skullduggery!

Do you think I should or should not cancel my subscription before the end of month one, instead of relying on transferring service? Is there a reason to continue with this subscription that is better than getting a totally new service?


----------



## megazone

megory said:


> Next . . . I thought ALL cable companies were required by FCC mandate to provide cable cards.


_Unless_ the FCC gives them a waiver - yes.

But most small cable systems - like those that only serve one apartment complex, or one small town, etc - have waivers. The FCC didn't want to force them to make the major investments in new infrastructure as it would be an undue burden for small companies.

The waivers expire eventually, and the generally idea is that these vendors will update over time as there is a natural hardware refresh process.


----------



## megazone

BlackBetty said:


> The fact that cable cards are not bi-directional is holding me back. I like having VOD and being able to order PPV. Losing those features is not worth it to me.
> 
> Is there a time line for bi-directional cards? Or is it up in the air?


ALL CableCARDs are bi-directional, always have been.

It is the host device that determines if these features work. And the TiVo units do not support them, and likely never will. Today's standards require a heavy burden in hardware and software - DOCSIS modem, OCAP support - to support VOD/PPV.

TiVo and the cable industry as supposedly working on a solution to handle SDV channels with today's hardware. SDV works very similarly to VOD/PPV, so it is possible that any such solution also would support those - but nothing is certain.


----------



## megazone

bkdtv said:


> TivoHD has twice the system memory (256MB vs 128MB)


TiVo pointed out to me that while the TiVo HD has 256MB of RAM for the main SoC, and the S3 had 128MB for the main SoC - the S3 had another bank of RAM dedicated to the separate decoder, and that is now part of the SoC on the HD. So they really just consolidated the chips and the RAM into one instead of two units. So it isn't really the same as having twice the memory.


----------



## HDTiVo

megazone said:


> TiVo pointed out to me that while the TiVo HD has 256MB of RAM for the main SoC, and the S3 had 128MB for the main SoC - the S3 had another bank of RAM dedicated to the separate decoder, and that is now part of the SoC on the HD. So they really just consolidated the chips and the RAM into one instead of two units. So it isn't really the same as having twice the memory.


So in simple terms, the Broadcom MPU is now also the decoder whereas there was a seperate Broadcom MPU and decoder chip in the S3?

Wouldn't the unified memory offer more flexibility between RAM demands of the two functions? Would contention become an issue, even if it is all one chip now?


----------



## megazone

HDTiVo said:


> So in simple terms, the Broadcom MPU is now also the decoder whereas there was a seperate Broadcom MPU and decoder chip in the S3?


Right, the 7401 replaces both the 7038 and 7411.



> Wouldn't the unified memory offer more flexibility between RAM demands of the two functions? Would contention become an issue, even if it is all one chip now?


Possibly, I don't know the implementation specifics of the chip.


----------



## bkdtv

megazone said:


> TiVo pointed out to me that while the TiVo HD has 256MB of RAM for the main SoC, and the S3 had 128MB for the main SoC - the S3 had another bank of RAM dedicated to the separate decoder, and that is now part of the SoC on the HD. So they really just consolidated the chips and the RAM into one instead of two units. So it isn't really the same as having twice the memory.


The Series3 software only had access to 128Mb RAM.

I guess the question here is how much memory does the decoder portion of the chip actually use on a consistent basis? And how much memory does the Tivo kernel report is available?


----------



## stevereis

Memory bandwidth could certainly be an issue when decoding HD. Separate DRAMs for the System CPU and HD Decoder would simplify things but, but you've got to assume the new Broadcom chip was engineered from the ground up to handle HD decode and system functions. It's got to be a big cost savings to go from 2 complex devices and 2 pairs of DRAM to 1 CPU + 1 DRAM pair.


----------



## stevereis

TiVo HD manuals and setup guides are now posted on the support page:
http://customersupport.tivo.com/UserGuides.aspx


----------



## JamieP

bkdtv said:


> The Series3 software only had access to 128Mb RAM.
> 
> I guess the question here is how much memory does the decoder portion of the chip actually use on a consistent basis? And how much memory does the Tivo kernel report is available?


We'll know as soon as they release kernel sources. All the reserved memory pools are in a table there, at least for past platforms. For example, here's the reserved memory on an Series3:


Code:


    { kTivoConfigContigmemRegion1, 0x00C00000 }, /*12.0MB */
    { kTivoConfigContigmemRegion2, 0x00200000 }, /* 2.0MB */
    { kTivoConfigContigmemRegion3, 0x00527000 }, /* 5280kB */
    { kTivoConfigContigmemRegion8, 0x04000000 }, /*64.0MB */

The linux kernel on a Series3 sees only ~43M out of the 128M. The rest is used in memory regions for other hardware, and is not available to the kernel.

If you pull the drive and look at the kernel log, you can verify it. You'll see a line like this near the start of the kernel boot:


Code:


<6>Memory: 42856k/131072k available (1289k kernel code, 88216k reserved, 63k data, 84k init, 0k highmem)


----------



## netslacker

I have a TiVo account that is current / up to date on a series 2 and has a discounted month to month rate. Does anyone know if the discounted rate can be transfered onto a TiVo HD if I buy it from BB or CC?

Rob


----------



## bkdtv

stevereis said:


> Memory bandwidth could certainly be an issue when decoding HD. Separate DRAMs for the System CPU and HD Decoder would simplify things but, but you've got to assume the new Broadcom chip was engineered from the ground up to handle HD decode and system functions. It's got to be a big cost savings to go from 2 complex devices and 2 pairs of DRAM to 1 CPU + 1 DRAM pair.


The BCM7038 DVR CPU in the Series3 was also a MPEG-2 decoder. In fact, current Motorola HDTV DVRs still use the BCM7038 exclusively without an extra decoder. The original DirecTivo HR10 HDTV DVR and older Dish Network HDTV DVRs did as well.

In the Series3, Tivo added the BCM7411 (to the BCM7038) for MPEG-4 / VC-1 support, as did DirecTV in its HR20 DVR. It's not clear to me whether the Series3 actually uses the BCM7411 for decoding, or whether it sits 'unused' until we get MPEG-4 / VC-1 content via cable or TivoCast.

The primary difference between the BCM7038 and the BCM7401 is the integrated MPEG-4 support, rendering a separate decoder for MPEG-4 unnecessary.


----------



## clark_kent

I started a thread (clearQAM troubles) but soon realized that this thread is where the best-of-the-best TiVo technical types are hanging out. I don't want to bore everyone here with what I already posted regarding my S3 clearQAM troubles, but hope you all pardon my re-posting my TiVoHD QAM related question here:

From what I've read about the new TiVoHD, it has different QAM tuners, different tuner support chips, and maybe (probably?) different QAM tuning firmware then what the S3 has. My question for the best-of-the-best is: will the new TiVoHD fair better with clearQAM reception then the current S3?

Thank you all for your comments.


----------



## Bierboy

netslacker said:


> I have a TiVo account that is current / up to date on a series 2 and has a discounted month to month rate. Does anyone know if the discounted rate can be transfered onto a TiVo HD if I buy it from BB or CC?
> 
> Rob


If, by "discounted" you mean on the MSD, then, yes. If it's not attached to another TiVo, then you'd have to contact TiVo CS to find out. I'd guess 50-50.


----------



## gbronzer

clark_kent said:


> From what I've read about the new TiVoHD, it has different QAM tuners, different tuner support chips, and maybe (probably?) different QAM tuning firmware then what the S3 has. My question for the best-of-the-best is: will the new TiVoHD fair better with clearQAM reception then the current S3?


I don't know about compared to the S3 since I don't have one, but it tunes QAM just fine. I'm waiting for my cablecard install, but I had it scan the channels and it found a ton of them. Most are bogus or encrypted, but the main ones like NBC, ABC, etc. come in just fine. Problem is there's no way for me to tell Tivo that 3-1 is NBC HD, so no guide data. It seems to tune the QAM channel relatively quickly. I don't get the sense that it can tell the difference from an encrypted/non-encrypted QAM given the number of bogus channels it found.


----------



## TokyoShoe

I picked up my brand new TiVo HD from Circuit City in Houston, Texas. (Most all Houston locations have plenty in stock, if anyone cares.) I also purchased the TiVo Wireless G adaptor.

Got it all setup, got my CableCards Paired, wireless network adaptor up and working like a charm. I am a first time TiVo Buyer with this, and I have to say I am already VERY impressed with the functionality of this wonderful device. Heck, I've already spent 30 minutes this morning from work just scheduling more recordings remotely from the MyTiVo website (MAN is that a fun feature!)


----------



## sfhub

clark_kent said:


> I started a thread (clearQAM troubles) but soon realized that this thread is where the best-of-the-best TiVo technical types are hanging out. I don't want to bore everyone here with what I already posted regarding my S3 clearQAM troubles, but hope you all pardon my re-posting my TiVoHD QAM related question here:
> 
> From what I've read about the new TiVoHD, it has different QAM tuners, different tuner support chips, and maybe (probably?) different QAM tuning firmware then what the S3 has. My question for the best-of-the-best is: will the new TiVoHD fair better with clearQAM reception then the current S3?
> 
> Thank you all for your comments.


You should at least add a link to your previous thread, no? 
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=360226

Anyway, you have a specific problem with the S3 working with the signals on your system. It isn't a widely reported problem with other cable systems and S3. You will likely only get a useful answer if you find someone else with the same problem with their S3, then purchased an HD, and was able to verify the problem was gone. The chances of that combination happening is very slim on any thread here. So the answers to your question will predominantly be S3 tunes clearQAM fine for me and HD tunes clearQAM fine for me, which doesn't really help you.

I would report the problem to TiVo and see if they can help diagnose the problem, possibly by examining the log files your unit generates (but you don't have access to)

As a quick summary, the problem clark_kent was encountering is during a clearQAM channel scan, some channels show up as channel 0. Some other devices in his house scan the same channels with proper channel #s. Personally, I've seen this problem happen on TVs when the PSIP is malformed, but make no claim this is the cause of clark_kent's specific problem. I just offer it as a direction to investigate.


----------



## vstone

clark_kent said:


> ...
> will the new TiVoHD fair better with clearQAM reception then the current S3?
> ...


I doubt it. Clear QAM issues have to do with how the cable company sets up the PSIP virtual channel tables and the missing Tivo ability to identify a given virtual channel with the published guide data (unless the virtual channel corresponds to the channel number requested of a cable box). And the latter, if prsent, would do no good if your Tivo sees channel 0 (ie bad PSIP table).

Edit: I went back to your orginal thread and was reminded that only S3's seemed to suffer from the channel 0 syndrome. While my statements above are correct as far as they go, a different QAM tuner chip may do away with channel 0 issue.

I don't think anybody has ever figured out if the problem is in software or in hardware. If in hardware, it's possible that somewhere along the line Tivo could have gotten a corrected chip to use in new production units (call them S3a units, known only by their serial #). Since your S3 appears to be relatively new, it seems that this is still an issue. Maybe they couldnt do a chip swap on the production line. Maybe that was another reason to rush out the Tivo HD: to avoid the embarassment for a chip flaw. If it was in software, I assume they would have fixed that, even if they didn't address the guide data problem. Those looking for bad actors might say that developers were using the chip problem to avoid addressing the guide data issue, which itself could have been addressed by the cable companies.

It will be interesting to see if the channel 0 issue appears with the Tivo HD.

I still think that you should report the channel 0 issue to the cable comapny and require them to fix.

I used to think that Tivo should not spend the money to address the guide data issue. However, having seen how the cable companies have taken active steps to make it hard to figure out how to tune to a given cable channel on clear QAM tuners and the FC's total lack of interest in consumer equipment issues, now apparently extending to allowing cable companies to technologically bypass 1996 federal law, I think Tivo should step up to the plate.

It doesn't affect me, but I think Tivo should step up to the plate on this one.

OTOH, maybe the Tivo HD software addresses the guide data issue and S3 Classsic users will see it soon.


----------



## aindik

TokyoShoe said:


> I picked up my brand new TiVo HD from Circuit City in Houston, Texas. (Most all Houston locations have plenty in stock, if anyone cares.) I also purchased the TiVo Wireless G adaptor.
> 
> Got it all setup, got my CableCards Paired, wireless network adaptor up and working like a charm. I am a first time TiVo Buyer with this, and I have to say I am already VERY impressed with the functionality of this wonderful device. Heck, I've already spent 30 minutes this morning from work just scheduling more recordings remotely from the MyTiVo website (MAN is that a fun feature!)


Welcome to the TiVolution!

(First time I've gotten to say that. It's been a while. )


----------



## Globular

OK, it's been three days. 

The online docs for the TiVo HD talk about firing it up a couple of days before your Cable Card install to make sure any software updates get applied. Could there be an 8.3 update for the HD already? Maybe with the unsupported eSATA hack? Please? 

-Matt


----------



## MickeS

vstone said:


> OTOH, maybe the Tivo HD software addresses the guide data issue and S3 Classsic users will see it soon.


Anyone know if there is a difference in how the TiVo HD handles this?

I think an update to this would be VERY welcome for many users (I know it would be for me ).


----------



## wizzy

I'm bummed. CircuitCity.com wouldn't let me use my 10% coupon online, and a few hours later I checked local store availability and my local store is now showing sold out. Guess I'll have to wait a few days.

---------
Update: bought a 10% coupon off ebay for $2, and hit my local best buy. Not sure if they had more in the back, but I got the last one on the shelf.


----------



## Beantownbeanie

wizzy said:


> I'm bummed. CircuitCity.com wouldn't let me use my 10% coupon online, and a few hours later I checked local store availability and my local store is now showing sold out. Guess I'll have to wait a few days.


You can buy it online and then have them refund the difference when you pick it up. I just did that today. Bought online drove 30 miles and then plunked the coupon down. I should have waited as another CC 5 miles away now has them in stock. Evidently they are flowing into the Boston area today and tomorrow.


----------



## scubajwd

Just got my Tivo HD..anyone recommend a good and small antenna to pick
up OTA HD? I've got a decent location to grab some HD signal..


----------



## GoHokies!

See my answer in the other thread you asked this in. It much easier to keep the discussion in one place.


----------



## jfh3

TokyoShoe said:


> I picked up my brand new TiVo HD from Circuit City in Houston, Texas. (Most all Houston locations have plenty in stock, if anyone cares.) I also purchased the TiVo Wireless G adaptor.
> 
> Got it all setup, got my CableCards Paired, wireless network adaptor up and working like a charm. I am a first time TiVo Buyer with this, and I have to say I am already VERY impressed with the functionality of this wonderful device. Heck, I've already spent 30 minutes this morning from work just scheduling more recordings remotely from the MyTiVo website (MAN is that a fun feature!)


Congrats - nice to see a first-time buyer and welcome to TCF.

As much as you like the Tivo HD now, I'm guessing you'll like it more when the GUI performance improvements from the 8.3 level of code show up.

So many of us here are long time, multiple Tivo owners, it's nice to hear from someone whose first exposure to Tivo is the new HD box.


----------



## jfh3

Globular said:


> OK, it's been three days.
> 
> The online docs for the TiVo HD talk about firing it up a couple of days before your Cable Card install to make sure any software updates get applied. Could there be an 8.3 update for the HD already? Maybe with the unsupported eSATA hack? Please?
> 
> -Matt


I set mine up yesterday and forced a few connections. No software update yet.


----------



## clark_kent

sfhub: thank you for posting the link, I didn't think I had enough "seniority" to be able to insert a link.

vstone: could you please elaborate on how to tell one S3 from another, in particular, how do you identify a S3a? Thank you.

randomsolutions has posted in the "clearQAM troubles" thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=360226
that he just got his brand new TiVoHD hooked up on TWC in San Diego and got a ton of channel "0" so it would seem that the TiVoHD does not work any better then the S3 for clearQAM.

vstone: the channel guide problem is trivial to fix. All TiVo needs to do is allow us to manually "map" a QAM channel # to the local EPG guide (provided TiVo identifies a real # instead of a goose egg).

Given cableco's hostility (and manipulative/deceptiveness) to anyone or anything other then there own box, I don't understand why TiVo doesn't rain all over there parade. If cableco's are "required" to provide proper PSIP and they are providing "good" PSIP for everything except "local" channels that are "supposed" to be in the "clear" on QAM and only those clearQAM channels have something wrong with the PSIP, I would think it would be slam dunk cause for action from TiVo.

Another question to those that are more technically inclined: if I tune a clearQAM channel # and get a black screen, why does that channel then "tune-in" by going to the "signal meter" and getting a signal strength reading?


----------



## TokyoShoe

jfh3 said:


> Congrats - nice to see a first-time buyer and welcome to TCF.
> 
> As much as you like the Tivo HD now, I'm guessing you'll like it more when the GUI performance improvements from the 8.3 level of code show up.
> 
> So many of us here are long time, multiple Tivo owners, it's nice to hear from someone whose first exposure to Tivo is the new HD box.


Thank you for the warm welcome. The only hitch I am running across is the lack of TiVoDesktop software for Vista. However, I am seeing moderator posts indicating this software version is coming "Very Soon" (tm). Hopefully it's a week or less away, I'm really itching to try out some of those features.

Regarding the 8.3 software update: Is it out already, and will my TiVo auto-grab it? Or will I have to "force the download" on the unit?


----------



## sfhub

clark_kent said:


> vstone: the channel guide problem is trivial to fix. All TiVo needs to do is allow us to manually "map" a QAM channel # to the local EPG guide (provided TiVo identifies a real # instead of a goose egg).


I'm not sure how your cable company works, but in my area about once a month I can expect the channels to change positions with no warning, so I'd personally prefer the PSIP information work properly and a PSIP-based solution to channel mapping than the manual mapping. If I could have both, then that would be even better.


----------



## 1283

sfhub said:


> I'm not sure how your cable company works, but in my area about once a month I can expect the channels to change positions with no warning, so I'd personally prefer the PSIP information work properly and a PSIP-based solution to channel mapping than the manual mapping. If I could have both, then that would be even better.


Even if the PSIP is correct, you still have to tell the TiVo to rescan the digital channels to find the relocated QAM channel. In the meantime, you are likely to miss recordings. I think I'm stuck with CableCards.


----------



## clark_kent

sfhub: I would also much prefer proper PSIP solution as well as manual editing. Given the current state , the quickest and simplest fix is for TiVo to give us the ability to manually map QAM channel # to the local EPG. It may be a pain re-map every time the lineup changes, but it would be better then what we got now.


----------



## sfhub

c3 said:


> Even if the PSIP is correct, you still have to tell the TiVo to rescan the digital channels to find the relocated QAM channel. In the meantime, you are likely to miss recordings. I think I'm stuck with CableCards.


If TiVo were to add a feature to support PSIP-based channel mappings, they should automatically rescan for you at appropriate hours like 5am. They don't have to scan the whole range all the time, just for channels that have PSIP information, check once a day to see if the channel tuned has the PSIP information it previously had. If they all do, you are done. If not, trigger a rescan of the range. Alternately if new PSIP information is added all the time during some transition period, give the option to do full rescan every time. There is also a quicker fallback method that checks alternate streams in the same channel if the PSIP information doesn't match. My TV does this. Even if the ordering within the same RF channel changes, it shields me from the change, allowing me to use the old channel mapping. If the station moves to a entirely different RF channel then I need to rescan. This check can be done at record time.

Between these 2 techniques TiVo should be able to catch most of the changes.


----------



## sfhub

clark_kent said:


> sfhub: I would also much prefer proper PSIP solution as well as manual editing. Given the current state , the quickest and simplest fix is for TiVo to give us the ability to manually map QAM channel # to the local EPG. It may be a pain re-map every time the lineup changes, but it would be better then what we got now.


Quickest and simplest conceptually from the user's standpoint doesn't always translate to quickest and simplest for implementation. The feature you suggest has been high on the request list for over 10 months ever since the S3 came out and nothing has been done in this area, not even verbal commitments.


----------



## Unix_Beard

I just hooked up my new box. I popped the CableCard I had in my TV into the Tivo. I was surprised that it worked! I didn't even have to call the cable company. I thought it was paired with the TV.

Oh well, I'll have to pick up a 2nd CableCard tomorrow. For now, it works great!

One bummer. Once you install the CableCard, it tells you to run Guided Setup again or it won't work right. When I try to run Guided Setup, it says its unavailable because the Tivo is currently connecting to the Tivo Service - Try Again Later.


----------



## sfhub

Your area likely hasn't turned on the copy protection system yet. If that is turned on (something you may not get warning of), the pairing information becomes relevant and channels with non-zero CCI will have problems. Channels with non-zero CCI tend to be premium channels like HBO, Showtime, etc. but the cable companies aren't always consistent and sometimes those channels have CCI=0. If it hasn't been turned on the behavior will be as you noticed and you can move CableCARDs around to different units with no immediate ill effects.


----------



## moyekj

clark_kent said:


> Another question to those that are more technically inclined: if I tune a clearQAM channel # and get a black screen, why does that channel then "tune-in" by going to the "signal meter" and getting a signal strength reading?


After tuning to one of these problem channels what do you see when you go to Diagnostics and look at PID entries? i.e.
TiVo Central->Messages&Settings->Accnt and System Info->Diagnostics
Look for PID entries. The PCR and Video numbers need to match up for the channel to properly display on the Tivo. If these numbers don't match there is your problem. Check the numbers when the screen is black and again after your workaround fix of using signal meter to see if they then match up. In an older thread someone had this issue and managed to get hold of someone technical at his headend to get the problem resolved (by a headend fix).


----------



## sfhub

TiVoJerry had some discussion of the PIDs here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4856711&&#post4856711


----------



## megory

megazone said:


> _Unless_ the FCC gives them a waiver - yes.
> 
> But most small cable systems - like those that only serve one apartment complex, or one small town, etc - have waivers. The FCC didn't want to force them to make the major investments in new infrastructure as it would be an undue burden for small companies.
> 
> The waivers expire eventually, and the generally idea is that these vendors will update over time as there is a natural hardware refresh process.


I see. There are some condo complexes here that do that.

Us? We deal with Bright House. I figure there will be lots of input from others.

Thanks for all your info mega!


----------



## megory

I'm still on the fence wondering if it's best to cancel my present contract before the end of my month or to keep it and transfer it. I have been told to buy elsewhere and transfer. But I don't understand why keeping the present (new) 3-year contract is better than canceling and then getting new service on the new tivo?


----------



## 1283

megory said:


> But I don't understand why keeping the present (new) 3-year contract is better than canceling and then getting new service on the new tivo?


It's not, other than having to call TiVo to cancel.


----------



## clark_kent

moyejk: thanks for that post. 

when I have a black screen on a QAM channel, the PCR, aPID and vPID are all showing a - mark. After the signal strength test, the PCR and vPID are the same but the aPID is different. In one case the PCR/vPID was 69 and aPID was 72 while in another case the PCR/vPID was 74 and the aPID was 75. So, what light does that shed on what may be going on? Thanks.


----------



## megory

c3 said:


> It's not, other than having to call TiVo to cancel.


Thanks! I've been wondering if there was something I had missed in the contract.


----------



## msgreenf

Wow...the Tivo HD is great. I had a DirecTV tivo for a year, went to cable tv dvr and now back to Tivo and I couldn't be happier!


----------



## sfhub

clark_kent said:


> moyejk: thanks for that post.
> 
> when I have a black screen on a QAM channel, the PCR, aPID and vPID are all showing a - mark. After the signal strength test, the PCR and vPID are the same but the aPID is different. In one case the PCR/vPID was 69 and aPID was 72 while in another case the PCR/vPID was 74 and the aPID was 75. So, what light does that shed on what may be going on? Thanks.


Try getting rid of any splitters and see if that makes a difference.


----------



## sampai

I ordered my TiVo HD from Bes tBuy's web site on Wednesday, and UPS delivered it on Friday (yesterday.) I had it up and running in a couple of hours.

*Details*

*Cablecards*
Before my TiVo arrived, I went down to my local Comcast office in Redmond, WA, and picked up two cards. The rep didn't bat an eyelid. Redmond is home to Microsoft; so there must be lots of geeks like me asking for cablecards.

After my TiVo arrived, I followed the instructions and called Comcast when it was time to activate the cards. The rep had it done within 5 minutes.

I'm currently splitting my coax cable outlet between my TiVo and my cable DVR. Once I'm happy that the TiVo is working correctly, I'll return the DVR to Comcast and ask them to take off the $11 monthly DVR fee.

*Network*
I got network error 24 when trying to hook up my TiVo to my home LAN. Easily fixed by assigning TiVo an IP address, rather than asking it to get one automatically.

*Summary*
It took a few hours to get TiVo set up just right. The longest steps were updating the software and guide ("connect to the TiVo service") and setting up my 40 season passes exactly right.

TiVo now works great. My only complaint is that there's some screen lag when acting on commands, but that's still a vast improvement over my Comcast DVR.


----------



## vstone

clark_kent said:


> ...
> 
> vstone: could you please elaborate on how to tell one S3 from another, in particular, how do you identify a S3a? Thank you.


The discussion of model S3a was purely theoretical. I was just saying that it MIGHT have been possible to do a production line fix, not that it was possible or that it had been done. The fact that a newly purchased, and therefore theoretically a recently manufactured, S3 has this problem indicate that it probably has not been addressed as you indicate.



clark_kent said:


> ...
> vstone: the channel guide problem is trivial to fix. All TiVo needs to do is allow us to manually "map" a QAM channel # to the local EPG guide (provided TiVo identifies a real # instead of a goose egg).


 As a programmer, I agree that this is probably reasonably easy to fix, but the code may or may not take a short amount of time to design and write. There may be some related code that has to be overhauled to support this. This code may require a set of code for units using cablecard, a set of code for those with this problem, and maybe even a set of code for those without a cablecard, but the cable company populates the virtual channel table with the same channel numbers that their STB's use. This assumes no goose egg number. Different channel numbers from different tuners is problematic, but if one assumes that the only two possible channels numbers available to a clear QAM tuner are freq/subchannel (ie actual channel data) and virtual channel number, should be easily solvable. Tivo making it a priority is a different matter.

add/edit: As sfhub has indicated, changing numbers can cause problems and then we're into writing code to rescan every day (presumably when nothing is scheduled to record) and do some additional logic with the infomation discovered. The problem comes down to the spec, which is adopted by reference and has the force of law, says populate the table with channel numbers. Perhaps they thought that cable companies would just put in the same numbers as they use for their cable boxes. Now you understand loopholes.
End add/edit.



clark_kent said:


> Given cableco's hostility (and manipulative/deceptiveness) to anyone or anything other then there own box, I don't understand why TiVo doesn't rain all over there parade. If cableco's are "required" to provide proper PSIP and they are providing "good" PSIP for everything except "local" channels that are "supposed" to be in the "clear" on QAM and only those clearQAM channels have something wrong with the PSIP, I would think it would be slam dunk cause for action from TiVo.).


This assumes that the FCC, the White House, and the Congress understand the issue and give a rat's patootie. I think the FCC, if they paid attention, would understand the issue, but nobody cares. Tivo's lobbying dollars can't come close to matching the cable industry. One would hope that Tivo's congressman would care. Don't know if he does and don't know if he has any clout. If you want this fixed, you'll probabaly have to have the big box stores start hooking their hardware up to the local cable system. Good luck with that!



clark_kent said:


> Another question to those that are more technically inclined: if I tune a clearQAM channel # and get a black screen, why does that channel then "tune-in" by going to the "signal meter" and getting a signal strength reading?


Depending on the chip set and software involved, the channel might be an encrypted channel or might be an unencrypted music channel, which in my very limited experience, your tuner may or may not be able to pick up. This is all a guess on my part. I've never seen a unit automatically go to the signal strength screen.


----------



## vstone

Globular said:


> OK, it's been three days.
> 
> The online docs for the TiVo HD talk about firing it up a couple of days before your Cable Card install to make sure any software updates get applied. Could there be an 8.3 update for the HD already? Maybe with the unsupported eSATA hack? Please?
> 
> -Matt


I would classify that statement as preventive medicine.


----------



## sfhub

vstone said:


> This assumes that the FCC, the White House, and the Congress understand the issue and give a rat's patootie. I think the FCC, if they paid attention, would understand the issue, but nobody cares. Tivo's lobbying dollars can't come close to matching the cable industry. One would hope that Tivo's congressman would care. Don't know if he does and don't know if he has any clout. If you want this fixed, you'll probabaly have to have the big box stores start hooking their hardware up to the local cable system. Good luck with that!


I think TiVo should send out free evaluation TiVo HDs to influential people in Congress, including everyone on the FCC. Let them get personally vested in the problem.


----------



## wmcbrine

sfhub said:


> I think TiVo should send out free evaluation TiVo HDs to influential people in Congress, including everyone on the FCC. Let them get personally vested in the problem.


I never thought I'd look back nostalgically on the reign of Michael Powell.


----------



## moyekj

clark_kent said:


> moyejk: thanks for that post.
> 
> when I have a black screen on a QAM channel, the PCR, aPID and vPID are all showing a - mark. After the signal strength test, the PCR and vPID are the same but the aPID is different. In one case the PCR/vPID was 69 and aPID was 72 while in another case the PCR/vPID was 74 and the aPID was 75. So, what light does that shed on what may be going on? Thanks.


 Well, the fact that "-" mark is being shown when it's black seems to indicate no signal lock so perhaps you have very marginal signal strength as sfhub indicated. If you haven't already try removing any splitters/amps on your cable coax and feed the Tivo the line drop directly to see if that improves things.

Ultimately though, even if you can get these clear QAM channels to tune properly the Tivo has limited functionality (dumb VCR) without guide listings so I'm not sure how useful it is in that mode. I eventually gave up on Tivo supporting clear QAM properly and just forked out the money to Cox for cablecards + digital cable.


----------



## clark_kent

Hello all and thank you for your replys.

Whish I know how to selectively show quotes ?  

sfhub/moyekj: I have no splitter on the S3 input; signal strength always 94+.

vstone: 

RE S3a: OK, but is there a way to tell anything at from the serial #, like manufacture date?

RE programming a channel mapping feature: if I had any influence on getting this implemented, my suggestion would be to start with the old KISS approach. The universal fix would be wonderful, but as you suggest, cumbersome and complicated to implement. But limited functionality should be relatively simple to implement and solve most of the issues. S3s (or TiVoHDs with cableCard(s) installed probably dont need this mapping function since the cableCard does this for you. When the S3 does a channel scan, I pretty sure that it cant tell one QAM channel from another (ie encrypted, in-the-clear, music, premium, PPV, etc) it just list all channels # it finds and if the PSIP is malformed beyond some point, the S3 gives up and assigns that channel a 0 designation. Im assuming (we all know what that really means) that inside the S3 is a channel table as well the local EPG table (and if the local EPG table is NOT in the S3, that is something that IS trivial and easy for the S3 to obtain). Once you have the channel table and the EPG table, it would be fairly strait forward to be able correlate (map) a given QAM channel # to the EPG. My TiVo S1 periodically displays a there been a lineup change so the S3 could see that the mapping function has been activated and put out a message to the user if the EPG table changes. But that wont solve the problem of re-mapping if the cableco simply changes the frequency of a QAM channel. Cablecos can change QAM channel numbers (frequencies) all day long, but channel name designation (if thats what its called) like ABC-HD, NBC-HD, PBS-HD, CSPAN, etc within the EPG table probably do not change. If there was a way to detect such change, the S3 could perhaps keep-up with frequency changes, otherwise for those of us that would use this limited functionality would need to periodically check our mapping and live with having to make changes. I, for one, would gladly live with this, as it would be better then what Ive got now. (A side note: Id be happy to rent a cableCard if I could get it for just the basic/local tier; but I cant add a cableCard unless I move up 3 or 4 tier levels, and subscribe to a gazillion channels that I will never watch.) In one of my former lives I was a programmer and I would have been happy to volunteer for this undertaking, but alas, there are too many cobwebs and those memory cells seam to be no longer function. If only Id have done a core dump and backed up my brain 


RE the White House and Congress: I dont think Ill be holding my breath. But, if there is/are FCC regulation(s) that require cablecos to provide proper PSIP (or what ever else) so that any local channels that must be delivered in-the-clear and not only deliver a picture but what ever goes with (it in the PSIP) to get proper program guide info as well, and the cablecos are not doing that as a result of some technical difficulties (deliberate, or otherwise), if I was TiVo, Id be on the phone and sending nasty grams everyday (on behalf of TiVo customers) as well as sending a nasty grams in some official complaint to the FCC (every day if need be), until someone fixes the problem. I would think that TiVo would have the technical equipment and know-how to look at the PSIP and see if all is well or not. And if not, at least TiVo has clear evidence to support the violation where as us consumers have no evidence to stand on. 

RE black screen: when I tune a QAM channel (via number pad selection or selecting from the guide) and I get a black screen, then, if I navigate to the signal meter (which has always shown 94 or better) and select give me a reading then for some reason the picture comes in. I did notice that when signal strength is selected, both tuners are forced to the same QAM channel. I didnt use to get a black screen when the S3 first arrived. So I dont know if component aging has set in or if the cableco is doing something different or why the picture comes in when both tuners are forced to the same channel by exercising the meter. 

Looking forward feedback thank you all.


----------



## sfhub

clark_kent said:


> RE black screen: when I tune a QAM channel (via number pad selection or selecting from the guide) and I get a black screen, then, if I navigate to the signal meter (which has always shown 94 or better) and select give me a reading then for some reason the picture comes in. I did notice that when signal strength is selected, both tuners are forced to the same QAM channel. I didnt use to get a black screen when the S3 first arrived. So I dont know if component aging has set in or if the cableco is doing something different or why the picture comes in when both tuners are forced to the same channel by exercising the meter.


You are preaching to the choir on the channel mapping. Everything under the sun has been discussed and suggested. No word from TiVo, so that is where the bottleneck is.

BTW there are some cable companies that send 3 digit PSIP for their channels. Folks in these areas have said they are able to have guide data associated with channels w/o needing CableCARDs.

Regarding your blank screen problem, can you bring up the TiVo status display
S-P-S-InstantReplay-S

This will tell you the active tuner. I'm wondering if you have a problem with one of the tuners, and when you bring up the signal meter, it goes to the other tuner after forcing it to be the same channel.


----------



## clark_kent

I'm still green around the edges... 

could you please elaborate on: S-P-S-InstantReplay-S 

Thank you.


----------



## sfhub

Play back a recorded show or watch livetv.

Press the following sequence on the remote control:

Select-Play-Select-InstantReplay-Select


----------



## moyekj

clark_kent, if you are really serious about getting clear QAM working there actually is a user solution to the problem that involves some hacking (messing with the file system a little). See this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=354008
Problem with that method though is if any of your QAMs move around then you have to re-do the hack again. Also looks like not much came from it as that thread has been pretty dead for a while.


----------



## sfhub

I wonder if they can do a WIRNS style proxy to replace the guide dynamically with new mappings. Maybe you can even get 7.1 to specify a cable channel.


----------



## moyekj

sfhub said:


> I wonder if they can do a WIRNS style proxy to replace the guide dynamically with new mappings. Maybe you can even get 7.1 to specify a cable channel.


 I think there is a lot more encryption happening during Tivo service connects so setting up intercept proxies I don't think would be trivial.


----------



## Ken7

Does anyone know the difference in terms of the THX Certification on the S3 and not having it on the Tivo HD? Is there any real difference in not having the THX Certification in terms of a Tivo? I know sometimes companies try to save money by simply not applying for it on cheaper models.


----------



## clark_kent

sfhub: thanks for that tip on the status display... is there a link to other know codes?

RE tuner 0/1 and black screen: 

Individually, both tuners appear to exhibit about the same non-functionality. If I tune a QAM channel on one tuner and it displays black and then tune a different QAM channel on the other tuner and that tuner displays a picture right of the bat, the black QAM channel tuner stays black, however, if I tune a QAM channel and it displays black, and then tune a different QAM channel on the other tuner that had also displayed black, then both (different) QAM channels magically display the picture. The only way I seem to be able to get both tuners on to the same QAM channel is by selecting the meter reading function, which seems to always bring in the picture on a black channel. I would think that TiVo engineering would be interested in this. If I jump to the TV tuner, it never comes in black. Anyone have any thoughts?


----------



## jazmaan

Does anyone here use the new HD Tivo with Time Warner in Santa Monica or West L.A.? If so please tell me if you are happy with the service? Does Time Warner Santa Monica have Multichannel Cable Cards available? How much do they charge? Is SDV an issue with Time Warner Santa Monica?

Thanks


----------



## lessadventurous

I ordered my TiVo HD on Monday at about 10 p.m., but wasn't one of the lucky ones to receive a tracking number (though it did say "Shipped" for a few hours). Bummer... So those ones really got shipped and received? Well, now I'm wishing I waited to go to Circuit City or something.

And I just have one quick question. The Wireless G adapter will work with the unit, right? On Amazon, at least, it says it's for Series2 DVRs only.

I'm excited to have a TiVo of my own, when it finally comes! My parents got their first about 5 or 6 years ago (I was 16 or 17), and after getting used to it, it was hard moving out and going to my dorm or apartment where there wasn't one!


----------



## aus1ander

Yes, the Wireless G works. In fact, I have one plugged in right now.


----------



## aaronwt

aus1ander said:


> Yes, the Wireless G works. In fact, I have one plugged in right now.


Shouldn't it work the same as the premium Series 3 or even the Series 2 machines?


----------



## linkgirl

lessadventurous said:


> I ordered my TiVo HD on Monday at about 10 p.m., but wasn't one of the lucky ones to receive a tracking number (though it did say "Shipped" for a few hours). Bummer... So those ones really got shipped and received? Well, now I'm wishing I waited to go to Circuit City or something.
> 
> And I just have one quick question. The Wireless G adapter will work with the unit, right? On Amazon, at least, it says it's for Series2 DVRs only.
> 
> I'm excited to have a TiVo of my own, when it finally comes! My parents got their first about 5 or 6 years ago (I was 16 or 17), and after getting used to it, it was hard moving out and going to my dorm or apartment where there wasn't one!


Sorry yours is taking so long to get to you - mine arrived on Thursday. I must have just made the cutoff.

If it helps - I still have to wait another 5 days for the cablecards even tho I ordered them the same day as the Tivo!


----------



## jmpage2

aaronwt said:


> Shouldn't it work the same as the premium Series 3 or even the Series 2 machines?


It's different hardware so that's one reason it might not fly.


----------



## ldc3000

lessadventurous said:


> And I just have one quick question. The Wireless G adapter will work with the unit, right? On Amazon, at least, it says it's for Series2 DVRs only.


It says Series 2 only because at the time it was made there wasn't a Series 3. The Series 2 only is referencing Series 1 and Direct Tivos.


----------



## spcedog

Hi everyone...this community is amazing. I've been scouring all the posts and reading the reviews and I'm really excited to get my first tivo....the Tivo HD....in fact I have it in my possession...got it from Circuit City in Huntington Beach, CA today...let me tell you all of my journey... 

1. I arrive there after ordering the unit on the web at like 10 am with in-store pickup...following a tip off here I used a coupon I bought off ebay for a buck to get 10% off...got the tivo for 269.99...awesome right? Today at about 2 pm I make it over to the store. Oops...their system for web orders is currently down (went down at around 11:30)...argh...they said come back later and I'll get a $24 gift card for their 24 minute in store pickup guarantee...alright...not so bad. 

2. I wait patiently, trying not to call every 30 minutes asking if the system is back up. I finally call at like 6:30...it's up! I zoom over in my car and walk up to the pickup counter...with no line! awesome! I hand them all my stuff and they go to search for the Tivo HD...which I had just seen on the shelf when I picked up my wireless adapter that I was going to buy with the $24 gift card! The guy comes back with the Tivo Series 3...I keep quiet hoping they'll just fork it over...but alas they compared model numbers....and went back to find it. Guy comes back 10 minutes later and says they don't have it so they'll refund me the charges!!! In my calmest voice possible, I tell him they're on the shelf! I saw them! He says he'll look again...finally he comes back with the box. I make my purchases (got the 5 year protection plan) and go home. 

3. I get back home at like 7:30 and eagerly unseal the Tivo HD box and open it up...expecting the golden glow to burst from the box. Inside the box there is the Tivo encased in two pieces of styrofoam...wrapped in plastic...and NOTHING else. That's right...no manuals, remote, power cord...NOTHING! I began laughing hysterically...I'm starting to doubt if I'm meant to get Tivo HD. The box was totally not opened previously. I think Tivo just forgot to put the little pack in that has everything. Circuit City closes at 8 pm on a sunday and I would never make it there in time. Keep in mind, I live in Los Angeles and am moving on tuesday, have a lot of packing to do, and was just down in Orange County for the weekend at my parents because it was my birthday. Now I have to stay down here till 10 am tomorrow when Circuit City opens back up again and exchange the unit. I know I could probably go to any Circuit City...but I just want to return it to the store I got it from just to be on the safe side. 

Thank you for reading my saga thus far. I have my cablecard installation set up for my new apartment on August 1st with Time Warner Cable. When I asked for two cablecards for a tivo, the csr repeated, "Ok I have you scheduled for a two tv setup..." to which I replied, "but it's a tivo..." and he cut me off and repeated the same thing with a knowing inflection in his voice. I think what everyone is saying about the cable companies is really true. They don't want us to have the power of Tivo for ourselves. I hope I can find a Tivo with a power cord before then  It'll be me surrounded by towers of boxes listening to those joyous popping noises I always envied at my friend's house. 

Ok. Longest first post ever probably. I apologize....but I just had to vent! Thanks


----------



## moyekj

Judging by the influx of new 1st time Tivo users posting in these threads I would say Tivo has hit the mark and right price point with this new unit - better a little late than never.


----------



## aus1ander

spcedog said:


> Ok. Longest first post ever probably. I apologize....but I just had to vent! Thanks


Everybody needs to vent sometimes. Either way, welcome to the Tivolution! Hopefully those cables and manuals will show up somewhere.


----------



## jazmaan

spcedog said:


> Thank you for reading my saga thus far. I have my cablecard installation set up for my new apartment on August 1st with Time Warner Cable. When I asked for two cablecards for a tivo, the csr repeated, "Ok I have you scheduled for a two tv setup..." to which I replied, "but it's a tivo..." and he cut me off and repeated the same thing with a knowing inflection in his voice. I think what everyone is saying about the cable companies is really true. They don't want us to have the power of Tivo for ourselves.


I just visited TWC in Santa Monica to ask about Cablecards. The girl gave me a blank stare when I asked about a single Multichannel Cable Card. She disappeared for about 10 minutes to ask someone else. When she came back she said I would have to rent two cablecards at $1.75/month each. 

And of course they have to schedule an in-home installation visit just to pop in the cable cards, like I couldn't have done that myself. This was just an informational visit - so I didn't schedule an appointment yet. I have to check availability in my local Circuit City and also make some decisions about if I want to Grandfather out my old Sony 30gig Series 1 Lifetimed workhorse, or keep it alive on another TV while paying $6.95/month for the new box.

Here's another question - I presently have plain vanilla analog service - not even a Cable box - just a coaxial cable out of the wall into some splitters that serve 4 TV's in my house. The TV with Tivo has a splitter that allows me to watch one channel while taping another.

If I switch from analog to HD digital, will my other TV's without cable boxes stop working? Or will their internal tuners still be able to function so I can watch regular (non HD/Digital) TV like before?


----------



## AGBulls

So where can I find this elusive Circuit City coupon?


----------



## moyekj

jazmaan said:


> If I switch from analog to HD digital, will my other TV's without cable boxes stop working? Or will their internal tuners still be able to function so I can watch regular (non HD/Digital) TV like before?


 They will continue to work just fine. The analog channels and all the digital SD/HD channels are all carried on the same line at different carrier frequencies that do not interfere with each other.


----------



## spcedog

AGBulls said:


> So where can I find this elusive Circuit City coupon?


just search for circuit city coupon on ebay...they are 10% off $199 or more coupons...save you $30 bucks and only cost about a $1.50. Just a special note, I had to call in to the Circuit City toll-free number to order because the coupon didn't work just doing a web order. They were able to make it work with no hassle at all.

Brought in my remoteless, power cordless tivo this morning...and the guy at the Customer Service counter opened up another box and gave me the little cardboard package out of it. Didn't even do anything in the computer. Circuit City can be really strange. Although I think it was probably easier this way because I got the extended warranty on this box.

Just completed guided setup...everything is looking fabulous...except for the actual cable channels because I don't have my cards yet. I'll just have to wait patiently till wednesday.


----------



## btwyx

jazmaan said:


> gave me a blank stare when I asked about a single Multichannel Cable Card.


She might be justified in the blank stare, what you're looking for is a Multistream Card, or just M-Card. They're all multichannel.

Last time I talked to a Comcast CSR, he knew what an M-Card was (it surprised the heck out of me he even knew what they were) but expected them to be available "soon". By soon I think he said Semptemberish.


----------



## knownzero

Well, I just got my cablecards installed (single stream) and I'm waiting for the programming info to organize. The install went pretty smoothly, one of the numbers got transposed when it was called in and I kept getting an error message (161-4 I think). After they got that fixed, looks like everything so far is good. I'll reserve final judgement for after the guide data is in and whatnot. Took about 40 minutes total (a little less actually, he gave me a new cable modem since the one I had was ancient). The guy had done a couple of S3's before but he hadn't seen one of these although he insisted that he did one of these a little over a month ago (maybe someone around me was a beta tester?)


----------



## knownzero

Ok, so there's an issue and an odd one at that. I noticed after installation of the cable cards that there was some randon pixellation on some of the channels, only happened a couple of times and with no one particular channel. But, I'm in the Channel List setting up my favorites and the *background* of the channel list guide just pixellated for a second.  Has anyone seen a background get really pixellated before? It's pattern seems to be almost the exact same spot as when it happened on the channels when I noticed it.


----------



## WeBoat

I'm noticing pretty heavy pixelation on a lot of channels. After 3 hours today, my install is still not done. I'm getting about 1/3 of the channels I'm supposed to. They are coming back tommorow with new cards. 

We'll see.....


----------



## jazmaan

Still dragging my feet on this - but I did buy a coupon on Ebay that's good until Dec 31. I want to see how some of you bleeding edge people fare before I jump in.

I am intrigued by the ad copy saying you can "Download thousands of new releases". I presume you need the Wireless G adapter for this? Since Time Warner's On Demand programming won't work with Tivo (from what I've read here), is this feature a good substitute? What do the downloads cost, where do they come from and do they have a good selection of current movies to choose from?


----------



## wmcbrine

jazmaan said:


> I presume you need the Wireless G adapter for this?


No, an Ethernet cable to your router is enough.



> _What do the downloads cost, where do they come from and do they have a good selection of current movies to choose from?_


It varies, Amazon.com, and yes. For more details, look for the threads that mention "Unbox" in the title.


----------



## jazmaan

"An ethernet cable to your router is enough"

Hmmm. That raises another question. I use the High Speed 200mbps "suitable for video streaming" version of Homeplug to network through my house wiring. So instead of the Wireless G, couldn't I just use Homeplug? Another Homeplug adapter would cost me $78. Not that much more than Tivo's Wireless G adapter and probably faster.

Also, does the new HD Tivo still have the ability to play your music files and show photos from a networked computer?


----------



## megazone

Yes you could use Homeplug. And yes the TiVo HD has music and photos support.


----------



## shizle

I just bought a second router, a Linksys WRT350n, and relegated my older WRT54GS to my living room. I'm running DD-WRT (a third party firmware) on both routers, and the WRT54GS is in bridged mode and the TIVO and my HD-DVD have been assigned static DHCP ips. Saved me the hassle of wiring, and I wanted to get a draft-n/gigabit router that ran linux anyways!

Cox cable guy is due out tomorrow to install my CC's, can't wait..


----------



## jfh3

TokyoShoe said:


> Regarding the 8.3 software update: Is it out already, and will my TiVo auto-grab it? Or will I have to "force the download" on the unit?


In case no one answered this - 8.3 is not out for HD only the S3. When there is new software, Tivo will automatically download it to your box and reboot at 2 am.


----------



## rcamille

I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but can someone tell me what software version the Tivo HD shipped with? To anyone's knowledge, has there been an update?


----------



## andyw715

I am a current S2 owner (for only about 2 weeks) and decided to return the S2 for the TiVo HD. Does Galleon work well with Tivo HD (specifically goback). How about the other apps?

I searched for "Galleon and Tivo HD" but no results came back.

Thanks for your time.
-AndyWit


----------



## cgould

andyw715 said:


> I am a current S2 owner (for only about 2 weeks) and decided to return the S2 for the TiVo HD. Does Galleon work well with Tivo HD (specifically goback). How about the other apps?
> 
> I searched for "Galleon and Tivo HD" but no results came back.
> 
> Thanks for your time.
> -AndyWit


No video transfers to/from any HD boxes. Yet. Maybe before end of year. Other (music/photo) apps should work like others.


----------



## andyw715

cgould said:


> No video transfers to/from any HD boxes. Yet. Maybe before end of year. Other (music/photo) apps should work like others.


Thanks, is that _all_ video files or just .tivo ? (i.e. no transfering my home/personal videos, mpegs, etc)


----------



## aus1ander

rcamille said:


> I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but can someone tell me what software version the Tivo HD shipped with? To anyone's knowledge, has there been an update?


Its some form of 8.1. That just indicates where the development tree branched for the TivoHD (the base code). As far as I can tell, the TivoHD has almost everything feature-wise from 8.3 on the old Series 3 (HD categories in searches, wish lists, program guide, HD folder now kept at the bottom, etc).


----------



## JSlovesBM

I just ordered my TiVO HD at Circuit City's website which had it $41.00 off the price. No need for the $40 off coupon. However, I will bring the coupon to the store tonight and see if they'll honor it and try for an additional $40 off.

Thank goodness I got the $41 off because then I called Cablevision and asked about the cablecards. What a nightmare. They charge $46.95 just to come out and bring you the cablecards. They don't offer the cards at the local stores so you have to make an appointment to have them delivered to you and configured. I thought the TiVo automatically configures the cards for you? The good news was that the cards would only cost $1.25 each to use each month. More bad news followed, they can't come and deliver me my cards until next Tuesday!!!! What good is having my TiVo box and not being able to use it!!!!


----------



## simonkodousek

Sorry if this has been answered before, but I have a question about the TiVo HD. Does it support phone lines or just ethernet and USB lines? The reason I am asking is because I don't have a phone line or ethernet line near my TV that I'd like to connect and it is very difficult to get a wireless signal since this room is in a finished basement. I am planning to buy a wireless phone jack system only if TiVo supports phone inputs.

~Thanks!


----------



## Zaph32

Yes, it supports phone, wifi, or ethernet.


----------



## SullyND

Zaph32 said:


> Yes, it supports phone, wifi, or ethernet.


Should note that Wifi requires a seperate adapter.


----------



## Balzer

JSlovesBM said:


> I just ordered my TiVO HD at Circuit City's website which had it $41.00 off the price.


Thanks for the tip! I purchased from the CC website last week for $299.99. I called them, and they are going to refund the $41 difference to my card "within the next 7 to 14 days".


----------



## Balzer

To answer my own question...

I received my Tivo HD today, and went online to change the service number from my old Tivo Series1 to the new one, and it accepted the change. So apparently I will keep my $6.95 monthly subscription! I suppose I won't know for sure until my next billing cycle in a few weeks.



Balzer said:


> I purchased an original Phillips Tivo in the fall of 2001, and it has worked great. A few years ago, I started using a Motorola HD DVR from my cable company with my HDTV. When I started using the cable box, I called Tivo to cancel my Tivo service. They said since I was a "good customer", they would lower my monthly rate to $6.95 if I kept the Tivo service. I said sure, since I still use the Tivo in my computer room, as a backup in case I have a 3rd show that I want to record at the same time.
> 
> Now that I've ordered a TivoHD, I am wondering if I would be able to transfer that Tivo service to the new DVR, and keep my $6.95 rate...
> 
> This is what the FAQ says...
> 
> ----------
> How Do I Transfer My TiVo Service to a New DVR?
> 
> You can transfer any service agreement to another TiVo DVR of any make or model at any time.
> ----------
> 
> I will try.
> 
> Jeff


----------



## CharlesH

SullyND said:


> Should note that Wifi requires a seperate adapter.


And further, it must specifically be the one from TiVo. The Series2 recognizes several WiFi adapters in addition to the TiVo-branded one, but the S3/HD only recognizes the one from TiVo.


----------



## crouch

I have an oldtimer-type question for my new Tivo HD.

I still have a standard definition television (gasp) for which I used a coax cable straight into my old Series 1 before it died last week. I am wondering if there is a way to configure the Tivo HD using standard coaxial cable and my tv to take advantage of its dual tuner capability.

Will dual tuner work if I use a splitter on the coax coming out of the wall and put one branch of the post-splitter coax into the Tivo "cable" input and the other branch of the coax into the "antenna" input on the Tivo?

If not, is there any other way? I'll be upgrading my whole system in a few months but in the meantime I'd like to take advantage of the dual tuner feature.

Also, I plan on buying a Tivo Wireless G adapter and a wireless router (to attach to my cable modem). Is there any particular standard I should buy for the router? Will the Tivo adapter work with all modern routers including 802.11g with SRX and 802.11 draft N? Are there any strong preferences for one over the other standard? I eventually plan on making my home office wireless, including between the cable modem and computer and between the computer and printer. Thanks.


----------



## rainwater

There already is a internal splitter. All you need to do is use the cable input of the box and you will have dual tuners for analog cable.


----------



## btwyx

crouch said:


> Will dual tuner work if I use a splitter on the coax coming out of the wall and put one branch of the post-splitter coax into the Tivo "cable" input and the other branch of the coax into the "antenna" input on the Tivo?


No. (Assuming it works like my S3.)

You only need to plug the coax into the Antenna or cable input, depending on whether you have antenna or cable. The cable is split internally to the 2 tuners. Effectively it has 2 tuners, each of which can do either cable or antenna.

In other words, you only need to plug in one cable.

If you TV is only receiving its signal over co-ax you're going to have to do something to get the signal from the TiVo to the TV. There is no co-ax out on the TiVo. If your TV has composite (yellow plugs) or S-Video (cirular plug with 4 pins) you can connect the TiVo directly to the TV. If the TV only has co-ax you're going to have to get an RF modulator to convert the TiVo output to co-ax.


----------



## crouch

Thanks. I'll play around with it tonight to test the dual tuner functionality. Between that and the "Overlap Protection" feature, I should be able to avoid almost all of the scheduling conflicts I'm used to having with my Series 1.

btwyx, I simplified my question but I appreciate your response. I do have my Tivo connected to my dvd/VCR combo connected to my TV via composite cables.

Any thoughts on the wireless router purchase?


----------



## Schmidt

I'd purchase a new $299 HD Tivo in a heartbeat if I knew for sure it eliminated all the maddening problems with my Comcast Motorola HD box and remote, most noteably the lag time with my Motorola remote, but also the Comcast "record only new episodes" that records the same "new" episode over and over and over, and also the sound dropouts and occur regularly. Has anybody experienced these problems with the HD Tivo?


----------



## cr33p

So if I want to be a cheapo here and not take the plunge yet for the cable cards until I definiatively know that my local Comcast has M cards, can I just hook this bad boy up to my OTA antenna and record local HD channels correct, just like the HR10-250 ? And will it record 2 at once?
Thanks


----------



## jmpage2

I just purchased a new Tivo HD due to the incredible $218 price from Comcast. Unfortunately now that I'm on the phone with Comcast I'm beginning to think it was a mistake.

The first piece of information that I'm getting is that it's impossible for me to pick up the cable cards locally and that I must schedule a technician to show up and set up the cable cards. This doesn't seem to quite match with the experience that other Comcast subscribers in my area have, but maybe I'm mistaken on this point.

Second thing that the tech tells me is that there is no such thing as a cable card that works with a Tivo. I told him just treat it like I have a cable card that I'm going to put into a TV. That seemed to get him rolling on setting things up for me. It did throw him for a loop when I told him I need two of them.

Then the tech tells me that I need to pay $7 a month "DVR" charge for the cable card if it's going to be used with a DVR. I told him that it's none of Comcast's business whether the device is a DVR or not, that all I should be paying is the cable card rental charge and that's it.

Long story short I have an install set up since they have insisted that I can't do my own installation. I am also completely in the dark on what I'm actually going to be charged for.

I can see why many people simply give up on the thought of going with a Tivo at all and stick with the Cable DVR that they can pick up locally, plug into the outlet and have service.

Comcast might be complying with the letter of the law but certainly not in the spirit of the law as far as cable cards are concerned.


----------



## cr33p

jmpage2 said:


> I just purchased a new Tivo HD due to the incredible $218 price from Comcast. Unfortunately now that I'm on the phone with Comcast I'm beginning to think it was a mistake.
> 
> The first piece of information that I'm getting is that it's impossible for me to pick up the cable cards locally and that I must schedule a technician to show up and set up the cable cards. This doesn't seem to quite match with the experience that other Comcast subscribers in my area have, but maybe I'm mistaken on this point.
> 
> Second thing that the tech tells me is that there is no such thing as a cable card that works with a Tivo. I told him just treat it like I have a cable card that I'm going to put into a TV. That seemed to get him rolling on setting things up for me. It did throw him for a loop when I told him I need two of them.
> 
> Then the tech tells me that I need to pay $7 a month "DVR" charge for the cable card if it's going to be used with a DVR. I told him that it's none of Comcast's business whether the device is a DVR or not, that all I should be paying is the cable card rental charge and that's it.
> 
> Long story short I have an install set up since they have insisted that I can't do my own installation. I am also completely in the dark on what I'm actually going to be charged for.
> 
> I can see why many people simply give up on the thought of going with a Tivo at all and stick with the Cable DVR that they can pick up locally, plug into the outlet and have service.
> 
> Comcast might be complying with the letter of the law but certainly not in the spirit of the law as far as cable cards are concerned.


You should have kindly disconnected the call and called back to speak with someone who knew what they where talking about. The CSR obviously doesnt know anything. Make sure you check that bill immediately. When I purchased the S3 when it first came out Comcast tossed all kinds of stuff on my bill that they didnt even tell me they where going to.


----------



## btwyx

cr33p said:


> can I just hook this bad boy up to my OTA antenna and record local HD channels correct, just like the HR10-250 ? And will it record 2 at once?


If its as good as the S3, it'll be better than the HR10. It has the same functionality for over the air recording as the HR10, but the tuner they used in the S3 was much better than the HR10 ever was. Moving from an HR10 to the S3 solved all my OTA problems. I could only hope they used as good a tuner in the HD. I haven't heard any one comment on this yet.


----------



## wmcbrine

JSlovesBM said:


> Thank goodness I got the $41 off because then I called Cablevision and asked about the cablecards. What a nightmare. They charge $46.95 just to come out and bring you the cablecards. They don't offer the cards at the local stores so you have to make an appointment to have them delivered to you and configured. I thought the TiVo automatically configures the cards for you?


Here is what "configuring the cards" consists of:

1. Pop in the card.
2. Wait for a screen to come up with some numbers.
3. Read them back to someone over the phone.
4. Profit.


----------



## btwyx

crouch said:


> Any thoughts on the wireless router purchase?


Personally, I ran a CAT5 cable to where the TiVos are. I've nver tried any of the TiVo wireless adapters, but for wireless routers I've always used Apple Airports and never had a problem. (But then I'm biased.)


----------



## Angeluv1109

I just received my HD tivo box, and I am hooked up the HDMI cable and I am not getting any volume, and I was wondering if anyone could help me with this. Thanks


----------



## btwyx

wmcbrine said:


> Here is what "configuring the cards" consists of:
> 
> 1. Pop in the card.
> 2. Wait for a screen to come up with some numbers.
> 3. Read them back to someone over the phone.
> 4. Profit.


Sometimes they also have to read the number off the card (before they pop it in the box). This seems to be a different, and important number they have to read over the phone.

The truck rolls for cable card installs are the biggest waste of time ever invented.


----------



## thepcdoc

I am experiencing a lot of pixelation on both SD and HD channels. Is the box or the cable cards?


----------



## cr33p

btwyx said:


> If its as good as the S3, it'll be better than the HR10. It has the same functionality for over the air recording as the HR10, but the tuner they used in the S3 was much better than the HR10 ever was. Moving from an HR10 to the S3 solved all my OTA problems. I could only hope they used as good a tuner in the HD. I haven't heard any one comment on this yet.


Yeah the crappy thing is I just recently invested in D* equipment and an HR10 and never even hooked the stuff up, only because I want to record OTA HD locals not so much the other channels but the original s3 was cost prohibitive in that arena. Now with a price of 258.00 art CC you cant beat it. I will just rent out my newest DT tivo to a friend for the monthly service. And scoop up the TivoHD. Now they just need to get TivoComeback working on the unit so I dont have to have an SD tivo in the house to watch downloaded vids with


----------



## Chimpware

JSlovesBM said:


> Thank goodness I got the $41 off because then I called Cablevision and asked about the cablecards. What a nightmare. They charge $46.95 just to come out and bring you the cablecards. They don't offer the cards at the local stores so you have to make an appointment to have them delivered to you and configured. I thought the TiVo automatically configures the cards for you? The good news was that the cards would only cost $1.25 each to use each month. More bad news followed, they can't come and deliver me my cards until next Tuesday!!!! What good is having my TiVo box and not being able to use it!!!!


I can top that, the CSR at the Cablevision store front originally wanted to charge me $93.90 to install 4 cards in 2 Tivo HDs. When I said that was crazy she then told me she was giving me a discount already as they are supposed to charge $46.95 pre card installed (total $125.80 for installation of cards  ). I asked to speak with a supervisor and she then told me they would only charge me $46.95 total. Could not believe what they were going to try to charge me.

They are coming tomorrow, hope all goes smooth, but I do not have high hopes.


----------



## cr33p

Chimpware said:


> I can top that, the CSR at the Cablevision store front originally wanted to charge me $93.90 to install 4 cards in 2 Tivo HDs. When I said that was crazy she then told me she was giving me a discount already as they are supposed to charge $46.95 pre card installed (total $125.80 for installation of cards  ). I asked to speak with a supervisor and she then told me they would only charge me $46.95 total. Could not believe what they were going to try to charge me.
> 
> They are coming tomorrow, hope all goes smooth, but I do not have high hopes.


I cant belive that they can legally charge anyone anything, we all know that we know more then the tech does as far as the install goes, they should be paying us, and the cable co doesnt charge you to pick up a cable box do they? But they sure do make customers pay when it comes to these cable cards, nice that they are supposed to be to our benifit but it sure hasnt worked out that way, no wonder everyone is trying to abandon them. It a whole bunch of crap.


----------



## Illrigger

Got my THD yesterday, and picked up my pair of cablecards from the cable company office on the way home (I was going to get an m-card, but that would have been a tech visit and my wife didn't approve of the cleanliness of the house  ). There was a $15 activation fee for each card that included a visit to your home if self-install didn't work out. I can't even imagine charging more than that - it took less than 15 minutes to get my cards installed and authorized by the cable company and less than an hour after that, I was up and watching HD programming sans the guide - provisioning took less time than it took the THD to finish its initial software download. $50 per card to read off 20-odd numbers over the phone!?! That's flat-out robbery.


----------



## jmpage2

cr33p said:


> You should have kindly disconnected the call and called back to speak with someone who knew what they where talking about. The CSR obviously doesnt know anything. Make sure you check that bill immediately. When I purchased the S3 when it first came out Comcast tossed all kinds of stuff on my bill that they didnt even tell me they where going to.


Well, this is the 3rd call that I've made and I'm being told that Comcast must charge me a $7 a month HD upcharge in addition to the charges for the two HD Tivo cards.

There doesn't seem to be any way to get them to set up the installation without getting billed for bogus 2nd outlet charges.

Currently I have an HD DVR from Comcast and a 2nd HD (non DVR) in another room of the house. I pay a rental fee on both boxes and I have Comcast digital (as required for HD service).

They won't budge on this and I've spoken to three agents and a supervisor. What other recourse is there at this point?


----------



## DocNo

jazmaan said:


> Still dragging my feet on this - but I did buy a coupon on Ebay that's good until Dec 31.


coupon for who? Just as an FYI it's pretty standard for retailers to cancel coupons that get abused. Circuit City has done it with their $40 off welcome to the neighborhood coupons in the past, for example.


----------



## DocNo

thepcdoc said:


> I am experiencing a lot of pixelation on both SD and HD channels. Is the box or the cable cards?


Probably your signal. Digital cable is much more susceptible to noise than analog.

Checking your cable strength is about the only reason for the cable co's to insist on a truck roll, but it wasn't until the fourth (and final) tech came out to my house that any of them bothered to check (and surprise, it wasn't good enough for digital cable, but was good enough for straight analog).


----------



## DocNo

jmpage2 said:


> Well, this is the 3rd call that I've made and I'm being told that Comcast must charge me a $7 a month HD upcharge in addition to the charges for the two HD Tivo cards.


What part of the country are you in?

I just signed up for Triple Play (the $130 a month package) and it was an extra $1.50 for the second cable card. I am charged nothing for HD (watching MTV HD now - they actually play music videos!).


----------



## brermike

Hi all,

I just purchased a Tivo HD and love it so far. I've already gotten the Comcast cable cards installed and have all my channels. No problems with quality of SD nor HD records. I am much happier than when I had the cable DVR.

However, the guide and interface menus seem to be much slower than compared to my DT S2 box. Also, when searching for a show by title, if I want to scroll through the list, I have to wait 5-10 seconds for the next set of shows. Could this be due to the fact that the guide is still updating with show info (though it has been set up since yesterday)? Or is this just the way it is until a software upgrade? Thanks for any help or advice you all can provide.

Other than that, I am loving Tivo once again!!


----------



## jmpage2

DocNo said:


> What part of the country are you in?
> 
> I just signed up for Triple Play (the $130 a month package) and it was an extra $1.50 for the second cable card. I am charged nothing for HD (watching MTV HD now - they actually play music videos!).


I'm in Denver. I finally got a CSR who was very helpful. He still insisted that the $7 a month "2nd outlet fee" for the 2nd cable card was legitimate, but he said he thinks he got it set up so I won't pay that fee.

I have his extension to call him back if things don't work out that way.

Unfortunately no M-cards in my area. This kind of makes me wish I had waited a few months for an M-card though.


----------



## DocNo

jmpage2 said:


> *I have his extension* to call him back if things don't work out that way.


 :up:

That's the best thing you can do - if you find a knowledgeable CSR, be sure to get their extension!


----------



## mike_camden

jmpage2 said:


> I'm in Denver. I finally got a CSR who was very helpful. He still insisted that the $7 a month "2nd outlet fee" for the 2nd cable card was legitimate, but he said he thinks he got it set up so I won't pay that fee.
> 
> I have his extension to call him back if things don't work out that way.
> 
> Unfortunately no M-cards in my area. This kind of makes me wish I had waited a few months for an M-card though.


I had a similar issue with a group of Comcast reps today. I'm not sure if it was ignorance or if they were intentionally trying to dissuade me from using cable cards (by the way, one told me that an M-stream card would not be released until late 2008 if at all).

To make a long story short, I did a little research while on the phone and found this comcast page (http://www.comcast.com/Customers/FAQ/FaqDetails.ashx?Id=4115) that details pricing per cable card. When I read the pricing info on the page verbatim and provided the URL to the last rep, it seemed to "spark" her memory. She got her supervisor to give her the correct code to update my account with the correct pricing and schedule an install. I could see how folks (i.e. someone like my wife) would just say the hell with it and stay with the comcrapstic Motorola DVR.


----------



## jazmaan

Well I couldn't hold out any longer. I bought a Circuit City discounted HD Tivo. My 10% coupon that I bought for $1.50 on Ebay didn't work because the item was already on sale. (That's ok, the coupon is good till the end of the year.)

I called TWC in Santa Monica and made an appointment for them to install two Cablecards. They didn't seem to mind that the cards were for a Tivo. $19.95 installation fee which I couldn't convince them to waive. Plus $1.95 per card per month. The guy at the 800 number seemed to be aware of the M-Card but said TWC doesn't offer M-Cards "yet". 

So here's my question. I have a Lifetime Series 1 which does NOT qualify for the Grandfather Special because I started its service in May 2001. (They were having a discount special at the time so I only paid $199 for Lifetime. Those were the days!)

What is the cheapest plan I can get for my new HD Tivo? I'm willing to pay whatever it takes up front to get the absolute cheapest service plan.


----------



## jmpage2

jazmaan said:


> Well I couldn't hold out any longer. I bought a Circuit City discounted HD Tivo. My 10% coupon that I bought for $1.50 on Ebay didn't work because the item was already on sale. (That's ok, the coupon is good till the end of the year.)
> 
> I called TWC in Santa Monica and made an appointment for them to install two Cablecards. They didn't seem to mind that the cards were for a Tivo. $19.95 installation fee which I couldn't convince them to waive. Plus $1.95 per card per month. The guy at the 800 number seemed to be aware of the M-Card but said TWC doesn't offer M-Cards "yet".
> 
> So here's my question. I have a Lifetime Series 1 which does NOT qualify for the Grandfather Special because I started its service in May 2001. (They were having a discount special at the time so I only paid $199 for Lifetime. Those were the days!)
> 
> What is the cheapest plan I can get for my new HD Tivo? I'm willing to pay whatever it takes up front to get the absolute cheapest service plan.


3 yrs for $299. They advertise it as 1 year free, basically it works out to a little over $8 per month.


----------



## GoHokies!

jmpage2 said:


> 3 yrs for $299. They advertise it as 1 year free, basically it works out to a little over $8 per month.


Nope. His lifetime is a qualifying unit, so 3 years monthly would be only $6.95 with the MSD.


----------



## aindik

GoHokies! said:


> Nope. His lifetime is a qualifying unit, so 3 years monthly would be only $6.95 with the MSD.


So long as the lifetime unit stays plugged in and phones home to the TiVo service once every 180 days, this is the cheapest plan available. 3 years is $250.20, but you have to pay monthly even though you're agreeing to pay for three years.


----------



## aaronwt

I just set up my TiVo HD. How long can I use it before I have to activate it?


----------



## jazmaan

aindik said:


> So long as the lifetime unit stays plugged in and phones home to the TiVo service once every 180 days, this is the cheapest plan available. 3 years is $250.20, but you have to pay monthly even though you're agreeing to pay for three years.


Can't I pay for the three years in advance at $6.95? (Assuming I keep my 2001 Lifetime box connected too?)


----------



## 1283

jazmaan said:


> Can't I pay for the three years in advance at $6.95? (Assuming I keep my 2001 Lifetime box connected too?)


No, MSD is monthly only. The only alternative is to get a TiVo gift card and activate the unit with it.


----------



## Koan

I have basic Comcast cable hooked directly to my set and get HD locals on "1-" channels (for example, 1-4, 1-8, 1-9, etc.). I also get what I guess are digital SD channels on "0-" numbers. Based on what I read earlier in this thread, it sounds like the Tivo HD probably won't have these channels in the guide data - is this correct? So I would have to get 2 cablecards (no big deal) and upgrade to the digital tier (is a big deal) to schedule recordings?


----------



## randymac88

wmcbrine said:


> Here is what "configuring the cards" consists of:
> 
> 1. Pop in the card.
> 2. Wait for a screen to come up with some numbers.
> 3. Read them back to someone over the phone.
> 4. Profit.


Actually, you are paying for the possibility of problems (which is quite high). My TWC tech came out today and it was a total failure through eight cards. From what I understand, these problems happen more often than not, which is why they are requiring tech visits.


----------



## randomsolutions

brermike said:


> However, the guide and interface menus seem to be much slower than compared to my DT S2 box. Also, when searching for a show by title, if I want to scroll through the list, I have to wait 5-10 seconds for the next set of shows. Could this be due to the fact that the guide is still updating with show info (though it has been set up since yesterday)? Or is this just the way it is until a software upgrade? Thanks for any help or advice you all can provide.


I'm experiencing the exact same problem too. I ordered CableCards in hopes that they will fix my problem. Here  and Here are threads talking about the issue you are experiencing.


----------



## brermike

randomsolutions said:


> I'm experiencing the exact same problem too. I ordered CableCards in hopes that they will fix my problem. Here  and Here are threads talking about the issue you are experiencing.


Thanks for the reply but I am not having any problems with tuning channels, but rather the actual Tivo menu screens. They are much slower in transitioning compared to my DT S2. Also, the find programs by keyword can be slow, too. I don't know if this is normal for this particular box or not. I assume a software upgrade will fix it since Tivo is pretty good about those things but thought I would inquire.


----------



## ldc3000

JSlovesBM said:


> I just ordered my TiVO HD at Circuit City's website which had it $41.00 off the price.


Thanks for the heads up . I bought two from them last week and will be their first thing tomorrow for the refund. The prices dropped on these quicker on than I think any of unexpected.


----------



## 1283

brermike said:


> Thanks for the reply but I am not having any problems with tuning channels, but rather the actual Tivo menu screens. They are much slower in transitioning compared to my DT S2. Also, the find programs by keyword can be slow, too. I don't know if this is normal for this particular box or not. I assume a software upgrade will fix it since Tivo is pretty good about those things but thought I would inquire.


That problem was fixed in the latest S3 software, which the HD does not have yet.


----------



## brermike

c3 said:


> That problem was fixed in the latest S3 software, which the HD does not have yet.


Great, thanks! I figured it was a software thing to be fixed. I still love my Tivo HD and will await a software update.


----------



## btwyx

randymac88 said:


> Actually, you are paying for the possibility of problems (which is quite high). My TWC tech came out today and it was a total failure through eight cards. From what I understand, these problems happen more often than not, which is why they are requiring tech visits.


If they actually tested the cards before putting them into service, that sort of thing wouldn't be needed. There are credible stories around that when a card fails it just goes back into inventory. So after a while the only cards you have in inveentory are bad cards.


----------



## MickeS

btwyx said:


> If they actually tested the cards before putting them into service, that sort of thing wouldn't be needed. There are credible stories around that when a card fails it just goes back into inventory. So after a while the only cards you have in inveentory are bad cards.


Yeah, but if they actually tested the cards before putting them into service, they couldn't get customers so frustrated that they just give up and go with whatever the cable company offers them.


----------



## ldc3000

jazmaan said:


> "An ethernet cable to your router is enough"
> 
> Hmmm. That raises another question. I use the High Speed 200mbps "suitable for video streaming" version of Homeplug to network through my house wiring. So instead of the Wireless G, couldn't I just use Homeplug? Another Homeplug adapter would cost me $78. Not that much more than Tivo's Wireless G adapter and probably faster.


If you don't mind me asking who the manufacturer of your Homeplug adapter. I'm thinking about switching over to wired for my Tivos and was looking for suggestions on this type of product.


----------



## winter

ldc3000 said:


> Thanks for the heads up . I bought two from them last week and will be their first thing tomorrow for the refund. The prices dropped on these quicker on than I think any of unexpected.


Good luck, looks like it was a one-day sale, the price is back to $299 today.


----------



## aaronwt

winter said:


> Good luck, looks like it was a one-day sale, the price is back to $299 today.


Well at least I jumped on the deal just in time.


----------



## cr33p

Damn, I was so going to buy another unit, looks like I was too slow this time


----------



## Fofer

bkdtv said:


> TivoHD Advantages
> MSRP is $500 less ($299 vs $799)
> TivoHD has ~7% faster CPU (450 MIPS vs 420 MIPS)
> TivoHD has twice the system memory (256MB vs 128MB)
> Supports MCARDs out of the box.
> Newer QAM/VSB demodulation chips for potentially improved OTA reception.
> *[*] New, dedicated hardware for MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 SD->SD and HD->SD transcoding
> Could allow HD->SD MRV with older Series2 Tivos
> Could allow TivoToGo and MRV to support content flagged as "copy one generation" (via downres)
> Could allow Tivo to use TivoToGo and MRV to record and stream content for which they cannot obtain Cable Labs approval to pass (via down-res)
> *
> Could allow place-shifting like Slingbox (thanks megazone)
> Real-time transcoding could eliminate the need to do it in software, reducing the licensing fees for the Tivo Desktop software.
> 
> Consumes less power.


I find the above possibilities (bolded my me) to be pretty interesting. Since this is due to the dedicated hardware (exclusive to the TiVoHD) then can we assume we the S3 wouldn't be able to get feature parity? Or is it feasible for some of it to be handled by software?


----------



## jazmaan

Got mine home. All set up with zero issues. Cablecards coming on Monday.


----------



## jazmaan

I was able to get the $6.95/month rate thanks to my 2001 Lifetime set. I mentioned that some people here thought channel changing was too slow and the CSR I spoke with said that Tivo reads these boards and that I could expect a software update "soon".


----------



## ugadog

Just got a Tivo HD from Circuit City yesterday. No cable cards yet, but I connected it to the same TV (Samsung 46 LCD 1080p) as the old Tivo S2 box that it will replace. With both boxes connected, I suddenly noticed that the recording quality of the new box with the same analog channel absolutely blew away the old box (both set to highest quality)! I had always been a little disappointed at the grainy recording quality of the Tivo S2, even with the highest setting. It seems that the HD box also has a much improved analog video encoder than the S2, which will be nice for the non-HD channels.

On a sour note, I was disappointed that the wireless adapter I had used with the S2 was not recognized by the HD box. Guess Ill have to spend another $59 on the official Tivo brand adapter. I dont like such proprietary tactics, especially from a company who built their product using an open source operating system.


----------



## DonRoeber

ugadog said:


> On a sour note, I was disappointed that the wireless adapter I had used with the S2 was not recognized by the HD box. Guess Ill have to spend another $59 on the official Tivo brand adapter. I dont like such proprietary tactics, especially from a company who built their product using an open source operating system.


I was also disappointed, but at least they do say up front that if you want wireless, you need to use their adapter. I bought theirs, and it was really quite simple to use.

It's really their best answer to the constantly changing market of wireless adapters. I remember hunting to get a specific revision of linksys adapter for my old series 2. After awhile linksys moved on, and their newer products weren't compatible with the tivo, so I can imagine how frustrated the average consumer was.


----------



## rainwater

ugadog said:


> On a sour note, I was disappointed that the wireless adapter I had used with the S2 was not recognized by the HD box. Guess Ill have to spend another $59 on the official Tivo brand adapter. I dont like such proprietary tactics, especially from a company who built their product using an open source operating system.


The problem with using Linux is getting drivers to work with wireless usb adapters is very difficult. I don't believe TiVo did this to make money off the adapters, but to quit wasting time trying to keep up with driver development that is very slow on Linux since vendors are not providing any help.


----------



## aindik

You can use third party wireless-ethernet bridges if you don't want to buy the TiVo branded wireless USB adapter and you don't want to rely on TiVo to provide drivers or support new security standards (should they develop).

Buffalo makes a wireless ethernet bridge with four ethernet ports, and it sells for $52 or less online. Useful if you have more than one ethernet-enabled device in your home theater setup (say, a TiVoHD and an Xbox360) and you want them all to connect to an existing wireless network.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833162168


----------



## jmpage2

aindik said:


> You can use third party wireless-ethernet bridges if you don't want to buy the TiVo branded wireless USB adapter and you don't want to rely on TiVo to provide drivers or support new security standards (should they develop).
> 
> Buffalo makes a wireless ethernet bridge with four ethernet ports, and it sells for $52 or less online. Useful if you have more than one ethernet-enabled device in your home theater setup (say, a TiVoHD and an Xbox360) and you want them all to connect to an existing wireless network.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833162168


That's correct, pretty much any 3rd party wireless bridge should work with the Tivo if you are willing to program it from a PC then move it to your Tivo.

If you're economically minded, many of the slower 802.11b wireless bridges(or "gaming adapters") can now be picked up from eBay for $20 or less.


----------



## MickeS

aindik said:


> You can use third party wireless-ethernet bridges if you don't want to buy the TiVo branded wireless USB adapter and you don't want to rely on TiVo to provide drivers or support new security standards (should they develop).
> 
> Buffalo makes a wireless ethernet bridge with four ethernet ports, and it sells for $52 or less online. Useful if you have more than one ethernet-enabled device in your home theater setup (say, a TiVoHD and an Xbox360) and you want them all to connect to an existing wireless network.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833162168


Thanks for that tip!

I was going to buy 2 TiVo wireless adapters, one for my Series 2 and one for the Series 3, but this will be a lot cheaper. 

Of course, the benefit of the Wireless adapter is that it doesn't need an external power source... so the number of cables would be reduced...


----------



## aindik

MickeS said:


> Thanks for that tip!
> 
> I was going to buy 2 TiVo wireless adapters, one for my Series 2 and one for the Series 3, but this will be a lot cheaper.
> 
> Of course, the benefit of the Wireless adapter is that it doesn't need an external power source... so the number of cables would be reduced...


The Series 2 (if it's not a Series 2 DT) doesn't have an ethernet port. You'll need a USB-Ethernet adapter for that. But those are fairly cheap.

Here's a link to a compatibility list:
http://customersupport.tivo.com/Lau...b0fae1ea86d&anchor=undefined&anchor=undefined


----------



## ugadog

rainwater said:


> The problem with using Linux is getting drivers to work with wireless usb adapters is very difficult. I don't believe TiVo did this to make money off the adapters, but to quit wasting time trying to keep up with driver development that is very slow on Linux since vendors are not providing any help.


Yes, you are correct that Tivo is not in the driver development business and I am sure that caused them plenty of headaches. However, for them to remove support for a device that was working fine in a previous version of their product will not save them any time. It will only create frustrated customers. Rather than remove the device support, they could have left it there and stated that the Tivo brand is the only one that they officially support. I.E.  try another brand at your own risk and dont call us if it doesnt work.

Although the driver development problems may be a major factor in the decision, it is naïve to believe that the financial aspect of capitalizing on a captive customer base was not factored in as well.

The wireless Ethernet bridge option is an interesting alternative that I hadnt thought about. But with the huge glob of wires and cables I already have behind the TV, I think I will keep it simple and just go with the Tivo adapter.


----------



## CharlesH

ugadog said:


> However, for them to remove support for a device that was working fine in a previous version of their product will not save them any time. It will only create frustrated customers. Rather than remove the device support, they could have left it there and stated that the Tivo brand is the only one that they officially support. I.E.  try another brand at your own risk and dont call us if it doesnt work.


The problem is that the adapter vendors move on to new newer versions, leaving the TiVo with drivers for versions of adapters no longer on the market. Rather than trying to keep up, and having to deal with frustrated customers who got the right *model* but wrong *version* (even if they tell tell them that they don't support them any more), they only put in a driver for their own adapter, and tested the *** out of it. And the S3 required major low-level software changes from the S2, so I can see why they chose to not even attempt to "port" the possibly obsolete drivers to the S3.


----------



## jmpage2

CharlesH said:


> The problem is that the adapter vendors move on to new newer versions, leaving the TiVo with drivers for versions of adapters no longer on the market. Rather than trying to keep up, and having to deal with frustrated customers who got the right *model* but wrong *version* (even if they tell tell them that they don't support them any more), they only put in a driver for their own adapter, and tested the *** out of it. And the S3 required major low-level software changes from the S2, so I can see why they chose to not even attempt to "port" the possibly obsolete drivers to the S3.


And (lets face it) a little extra change in your pocket doesn't hurt when you're struggling to make a profit either!

The typical consumer is probably more than happy to shell out the $$ for Tivo's approved adapter, the same way they overpay for wireless adapters for game systems.


----------



## crouch

Last I looked (a couple of days ago) Amazon.com was selling the Tivo Wireless G Adapter for $40 (free shipping and no taxes). I can't access Amazon from work to confirm that this price is still in effect.


----------



## jmpage2

crouch said:


> Last I looked (a couple of days ago) Amazon.com was selling the Tivo Wireless G Adapter for $40 (free shipping and no taxes). I can't access Amazon from work to confirm that this price is still in effect.


$45 with free shipping from Amazon, they have other sellers at $37 but the shipping charges are high.


----------



## ScottE22

The TiVo HD couldn't have come at a better time. My wife and I just experienced our 3rd incident in 2 months of our Comcast DVR eating itself. And this is the SECOND one we've had in that time period. I've been putting off buying an S3 due to price, but when she called me at work today to tell me the DVR cannibalized my son's favorite shows AGAIN, I headed to tivo.com ready to drop the $$ on an S3. Imagine my surprise when I saw the homepage and the TiVo HD! I'm definitely going to get on this if Comcast pricing is reasonable on the CableCards.


----------



## jfh3

brermike said:


> Thanks for the reply but I am not having any problems with tuning channels, but rather the actual Tivo menu screens. They are much slower in transitioning compared to my DT S2. Also, the find programs by keyword can be slow, too. I don't know if this is normal for this particular box or not. I assume a software upgrade will fix it since Tivo is pretty good about those things but thought I would inquire.


The UI "sluggishness" is the same that was on the S3 at the 8.1 code level and was significantly improved in the 8.3 code level. I suspect when the S3 and THD codes bases merge and we have 8.3+ for the THD boxes, the UI will be much zippier.


----------



## jfh3

ScottE22 said:


> The TiVo HD couldn't have come at a better time. My wife and I just experienced our 3rd incident in 2 months of our Comcast DVR eating itself. And this is the SECOND one we've had in that time period. I've been putting off buying an S3 due to price, but when she called me at work today to tell me the DVR cannibalized my son's favorite shows AGAIN, I headed to tivo.com ready to drop the $$ on an S3. Imagine my surprise when I saw the homepage and the TiVo HD! I'm definitely going to get on this if Comcast pricing is reasonable on the CableCards.


First CableCARD is free if you have any Comcast digital package, so if you can get an Mcard, then you are set. If you need a second single stream card, it's $1.50 per month.


----------



## chg

crouch said:


> Last I looked (a couple of days ago) Amazon.com was selling the Tivo Wireless G Adapter for $40 (free shipping and no taxes). I can't access Amazon from work to confirm that this price is still in effect.


I believe that I probably got the last one at that price. After I ordered mine it stated "In stock soon. Order now to get in line. First come, first served." with the higher price. Still shows out of stock.


----------



## ScottE22

jfh3 said:


> First CableCARD is free if you have any Comcast digital package, so if you can get an Mcard, then you are set. If you need a second single stream card, it's $1.50 per month.


See - that's what I keep seeing, but the woman at our local office said they were the same price per month as a regular (non-DVR) digital box...


----------



## aindik

ScottE22 said:


> See - that's what I keep seeing, but the woman at our local office said they were the same price per month as a regular (non-DVR) digital box...


They are, unless they're plugged into your only digital outlet.

First digital outlet (box or cable card): Included with digital package
Additional digital outlets (box or cable card): Additional fee (same fee for both, here it's $8.90 a month)
Second cable card for any outlet: nominal fee (here it's $1.50 a month)

So, if you have a box and a TiVo with cable cards, you're going to pay for the digital package plus the additional outlet fee plus the $1.50 a month for the second card in an outlet.

It's funny that cable companies used to crap on satellite companies in advertising because the sat companies had mirroring fees. So much for that.


----------



## ScottE22

OK - so if I understand, I would have:

1 digital box in bedroom - included
TiVo in living room - $full price + $1.50

Am I getting this?


----------



## aindik

ScottE22 said:


> OK - so if I understand, I would have:
> 
> 1 digital box in bedroom - included
> TiVo in living room - $full price + $1.50
> 
> Am I getting this?


Yep.

You get absolutely no discount for buying your own box rather than renting theirs.


----------



## ScottE22

aindik said:


> Yep.
> 
> You get absolutely no discount for buying your own box rather than renting theirs.


But I won't be paying the Comcrap DVR fee - I don't recall what that is...


----------



## jmpage2

ScottE22 said:


> But I won't be paying the Comcrap DVR fee - I don't recall what that is...


Just increased to $12 per month in this market.


----------



## holligl

Looking hard at this before we leap. We have been spoiled with our S2 and Lifetime service. We have Comcast analog cable and OTA HD reception for the HD TV. At this point, Comcast's HD offerings don't expand much beyond OTA unless you step up to the premium channels. (Noteable exception would be ESPN HD for Mondaynight football.)

Will the TiVo HD work with the analog cable and HD OTA, without any Comcast cablecard/HD upgrades?

How long is the 3yr pre-pay offer likely to last? Already missed the CC discount on the box.


----------



## aus1ander

holligl said:


> Looking hard at this before we leap. We have been spoiled with our S2 and Lifetime service. We have Comcast analog cable and OTA HD reception for the HD TV. At this point, Comcast's HD offerings don't expand much beyond OTA unless you step up to the premium channels. (Noteable exception would be ESPN HD for Mondaynight football.)
> 
> Will the TiVo HD work with the analog cable and HD OTA, without any Comcast cablecard/HD upgrades?
> 
> How long is the 3yr pre-pay offer likely to last? Already missed the CC discount on the box.


This is exactly how I use my TiVoHD, and it works wonderfully. The 3 yr prepay for $299 has been around for a while (I'm thinking ~4-6 months) and *should* still be there if you wait a month or two, but beyond that, there are no guarantees.


----------



## holligl

Can you transfer (downconvert) an HD recording from the TiVo HD to the Series 2?


----------



## aaronwt

You can't transfer anything currently.


----------



## jakerock

I just got a letter from Comcast saying that my HD DVR rental is going to increase to $12.95 (from $9.95). This is at a time when that particular DVR is sitting in my living room is locked up (it does that a lot). Said DVR is actually only a week old, the DVR we'd been using for a couple of years died (losing all the recorded shows).

So except for missing the CC sale, this appears to be perfect timing for getting a TiVo HD. I would love to find one at some sort of discount.


----------



## cr33p

jakerock said:


> I just got a letter from Comcast saying that my HD DVR rental is going to increase to $12.95 (from $9.95). This is at a time when that particular DVR is sitting in my living room is locked up (it does that a lot). Said DVR is actually only a week old, the DVR we'd been using for a couple of years died (losing all the recorded shows).
> 
> So except for missing the CC sale, this appears to be perfect timing for getting a TiVo HD. I would love to find one at some sort of discount.


Just go to CC and buy it with the $40 off coupon. or if you prefer go to BB and have them price match it. I picked up 2 last nite myself 524.00 out the door


----------



## jakerock

Good point, I can at least try the $40 coupon. If it doesn't work then I am not out anything.

Off to find one...


----------



## tootal2

I came home from work hoping to watch jay leno and lettermen. (i work second shift)
Only to find a white screen I unplugged it and plugged it back it, It seems to fixed it. Anyone else have this problem?


----------



## tootal2

jakerock said:


> I just got a letter from Comcast saying that my HD DVR rental is going to increase to $12.95 (from $9.95). This is at a time when that particular DVR is sitting in my living room is locked up (it does that a lot). Said DVR is actually only a week old, the DVR we'd been using for a couple of years died (losing all the recorded shows).
> 
> So except for missing the CC sale, this appears to be perfect timing for getting a TiVo HD. I would love to find one at some sort of discount.


Im paying about 20.00 for my charter dvr. I pay 12.95 for the dvr and a 6.00 dvr recorder fee.


----------



## aaronwt

Those prices make the TiVos seem like a steal, especially the TiVoHD. Which is good for TiVo.


----------



## jmpage2

aaronwt said:


> Those prices make the TiVos seem like a steal, especially the TiVoHD. Which is good for TiVo.


I'm looking at Tivo as a premium since the cost will exceed what I pay for the Comcast DVR by a fair amount.

And I'm fine with that, as long as they get the software up to speed over the next 90 days and resolve some of the early issues (pixelization on channels, slow menus, no TTG, no MRV, etc).

If they can get a polished software load out for this thing by Q4 then Tivo is going to have a very merry Xmas!


----------



## aaronwt

jmpage2 said:


> I'm looking at Tivo as a premium since the cost will exceed what I pay for the Comcast DVR by a fair amount.
> 
> And I'm fine with that, as long as they get the software up to speed over the next 90 days and resolve some of the early issues (pixelization on channels, slow menus, no TTG, no MRV, etc).
> 
> If they can get a polished software load out for this thing by Q4 then Tivo is going to have a very merry Xmas!


tootal2 said they were paying $20 a month. TiVo costs $7 a month and that leaves $13 which works out to over $150 a year. Which more than covers a TiVo after two years. On top of that the TiVo is much better than the current Comcast offerings. To me that makes the TiVoHD well worth it over the Comcast offering.
I think the Series3 is worth it over the Comast offerings and that costs alot more. Which makes the TiVoHD a steal in my opinion.


----------



## cr33p

jakerock said:


> Good point, I can at least try the $40 coupon. If it doesn't work then I am not out anything.
> 
> Off to find one...


Look it up over at fat wallet, search the forums for 40 off 199 and download the august coupon. I actually bought mine at BB and then just had them price match it. I love my reward zone points


----------



## jakerock

I can't get to one at work. I can get to fatwallet but the links to the coupon pdfs are being blocked. So I won't be buying today.


----------



## cr33p

jakerock said:


> I can't get to one at work. I can get to fatwallet but the links to the coupon pdfs are being blocked. So I won't be buying today.


Want me to email it to you ?


----------



## jmpage2

aaronwt said:


> tootal2 said they were paying $20 a month. TiVo costs $7 a month and that leaves $13 which works out to over $150 a year. Which more than covers a TiVo after two years. On top of that the TiVo is much better than the current Comcast offerings. To me that makes the TiVoHD well worth it over the Comcast offering.
> I think the Series3 is worth it over the Comast offerings and that costs alot more. Which makes the TiVoHD a steal in my opinion.


You only pay $7 a month if you already have another TiVo. For the rest of us it's $8.33 a month if we do a three year contract.

So;

$8.33 a month
$1.50 2nd CableCard Fee (will go away once M-cards become available)
$7 HD charge (not applicable if you don't have digital service with HD)

So for me at least the Tivo will cost about $5 more a month than the Tivo. It's not a savings, it's a small extra cost and I lose on-demand, PPV, etc.


----------



## aindik

aaronwt said:


> tootal2 said they were paying $20 a month. TiVo costs $7 a month and that leaves $13 which works out to over $150 a year. Which more than covers a TiVo after two years. On top of that the TiVo is much better than the current Comcast offerings. To me that makes the TiVoHD well worth it over the Comcast offering.
> I think the Series3 is worth it over the Comast offerings and that costs alot more. Which makes the TiVoHD a steal in my opinion.


Two points. 1) The $7 thing is only available if you have another Tivo. Otherwise it's $13 a month or $299 prepaid, and then only if you sign a three year contract. No contracts with cable. 2) $20 is high for a cable DVR. Mine is $11.95 a month.

That said, I'm still going to eventually go with the TiVoHD (because I have another TiVo and I qualify for the MSD). The extra cost is worth it. The present value difference between $11.95 over 36 months and $299 plus $6.95+$1.50 over 36 months is about $180. Spreading that back out over the 36 months makes it the equivalent of about $5.45 extra a month.

Comcast would have to raise the DVR price to $16.95 a month in order for the cost between its DVR and TiVo's to be equal over 36 months for someone with MSD.

If the TiVoHD actually lasts 48 months, and all the prices stay the same, then it's only a $147 difference, or $4.41 a month.

If I didn't qualify for MSD, I'd pay $299 for three years prepaid + $299 for the box = $598 + the present value of $1.50 for the second cable card for 36 months. Difference between that and the present value of the cable DVR ($11.95 for 36 months) is $250. So, the question for new people who want DVRs is, essentially, is it worth an extra $250 to go from the cable DVR to the TiVoHD.

They would cost exactly the same if the Comcast DVR cost were $18.95 a month.


----------



## tootal2

aindik said:


> Two points. 1) The $7 thing is only available if you have another Tivo. Otherwise it's $13 a month or $299 prepaid, and then only if you sign a three year contract. No contracts with cable. 2) $20 is high for a cable DVR. Mine is $11.95 a month.
> 
> I got a dvr recorder fee of 6.00 on top of the 12.95 dvr fee. Look in your bill you might have a fee like that to.


----------



## aindik

tootal2 said:


> I got a dvr recorder fee of 6.00 on top of the 12.95 dvr fee. Look in your bill you might have a fee like that to.


I don't. I pay $85 for the digital package with HBO, $11.95 for the DVR, and $8.90 for the non-DVR-non-HD box in my bedroom. I have a third box (non-DVR-non-HD), in my living room connected to my Series 2 TiVo, but they're not charging me an outlet fee for that, though I suppose they are supposed to.

If I turned in the DVR and the third box that they're not charging me for, and asked instead for two cablecards for a single outlet, my bill would go down by $11.95 and then go up by $1.50.

You are effectively paying $18.95 a month for the DVR. For you, a TiVoHD is effectively free, because the present value of $18.95 a month for 36 months is $632.28 and the present value of $598 now + $1.50 a month is $648.05.


----------



## TheBar1

cr33p said:


> Want me to email it to you ?


Would you mind emailing me a copy, cr33p?

<<email removed>>

Thanks!


----------



## frankthetank

I got the $6.95 rate by trying to cancel my tivo subscription last year - Now I have it forever.


----------



## cr33p

TheBar1 said:


> Would you mind emailing me a copy, cr33p?
> 
> credo_2112ATyahooDOTcom
> 
> Thanks!


Sent


----------



## ugadog

What is an M-Card, I was asked???

OK, here is how my cablecard installation went. To make a short story long  after purchasing and setting up the Tivo HD, I called Comcast and scheduled the cablecard install for the next morning (today). I asked the CSR if they had M-cards and she said she had not heard of them, but she knew they did not have them in my area (north of Denver). She was familiar with the Tivo boxes and noted that the first card would replace the existing HD box for no additional charge. The second card would be $1.50 monthly. The installation fee was a flat rate of $14.99. I was pleased with both the cost and the quick appointment.

The technician arrived and walked in carrying another HD box and asked where I wanted it to go. I explained that we were returning an HD box, in exchange for 2 cablecards to go in a Tivo HD (as I pointed proudly to my new device). OK, I have some cards in the truck, he said and then began unplugging both of our Comcast HD boxes on two different TVs. Wait, I said, we are keeping the Comcast DVR box and returning the standard HD box. Both of the cablecards go into the single Tivo HD box. Oh, OK he said. I have only installed one cablecard before, so I dont know much about them. 

Somehow feeling lucky, I again asked if Comcast had any M-cards. Whats an M-card, he said. I explained it is a multi streaming card that allows recording of two HD channels from a single cablecard. He called his tech support line on speaker phone to ask about the M-card. The guy on the phone was just as confused about the M-card and simply stated he had installed many cards into Tivo boxes, always using two cards. The tech then went to the truck and returned with the two cablecards. Low and behold, the first card he opened said M-Card right on the top of it. Trying not to laugh, I said, hmm, I believe that says M-card on it. It sure does he said, maybe you were right. Well, duuuhhhh (I didnt actually say that). I think we should try both cards anyway, he suggested. Well, lets give the first one a try and see what happens, I said. He plopped it in the Tivo, which immediately recognized it as a multi-stream card in slot 1. The tech called his support line again and yet a fourth Comcast person knew nothing about the M-card. The phone tech went ahead and activated it, while still questioning the validity of its multi-streaming capabilities. A few minutes later, I happily started recording two HD channels and gave the tech a quick demo by switching between them and displaying them both in the Now Playing list. Now at least one person at Comcast knows what an M-card is. Maybe I should bill Comcast for my educational services.

In less than 20 minutes everything was setup and working beautifully! Sorry folks, I gotta go now. With this luck, I am off to buy a lottery ticket today!


----------



## ScottE22

I'm in Northern CO as well and I'm glad to read of a positive experience. I just left Circuit City an hour ago with a TiVo HD tucked under my arm. On the way back to the office, I called Comcast to set up an appointment.

"Oh - CableCards? We only install those in televisions, not TiVos. Sorry."

I said, "I'm sure you're mistaken. Can you please connect me with someone who can help?"

I was placed on hold for most of the rest of my drive, and she came back on to tell me that indeed she discovered that she _could_ have two CableCards installed in a TiVo, but only a Series3. Not wanting to discuss the similarities and differences of a Series3 versus the TiVo HD, I said, "Yes. Series 3. That's what I've got."

She asked me if I wanted HD cable cards and I said, "Yes!" (I thought they were all the same, but again I didn't want to argue.)

I, too, was told the first card was free and the second would be $1.50 per month plus $14.99 to install. I didn't dare even try to steer the conversation toward an M Card at that point. I'll eat the $1.50/month if they can just make it work.

So we're set up for an appointment on Tuesday afternoon. I wonder if I call the local office instead of the 800 number if I could get something over the weekend...

I _did not_ cancel my HD/DVR box. I figure I'll wait until TiVo is working and then personally return it to the local office. No sense jinxing myself, right?

I love having a TiVo box! It will be like bringing an old friend home.


----------



## jmpage2

Is there a part number, etc, on the M-card?

I'm in the Denver area and very much want an M-card for my install on Monday.


----------



## bicker

jmpage2 said:


> I'm looking at Tivo *as a premium* since the cost will exceed what I pay for the Comcast DVR by a fair amount.


Just to keep your expectations in line with reality, please don't expect THAT much more from TiVo. The user-interface* is* better, and the hardware *is *a little more reliable, but it's really not THAT big of a difference. And as others have pointed out, the monthly pricing between the two services is now pretty comparable. The only real financial difference is the up-front cost of the box.


----------



## jmpage2

bicker said:


> Just to keep your expectations in line with reality, please don't expect THAT much more from TiVo. The user-interface* is* better, and the hardware *is *a little more reliable, but it's really not THAT big of a difference. And as others have pointed out, the monthly pricing between the two services is now pretty comparable. The only real financial difference is the up-front cost of the box.


Well, I've already got a couple of beefs with the Tivo HD. Tuner quality, at least on the analogs doesn't appear to be as good as the Motorola box it is replacing.

Additionally the UI is very very slow. I remember the menu on my DirecTiVo box being a lot snappier.

The guide software on my Motorola box is definitely quicker, a *lot* quicker than the Tivo.

The primary reason I am making the move to the Tivo is expandable storage (I've already bought a 500GB drive for it) and hopefully more stability as the Moto box has complained about being full a few times (when it wasn't) and not taping a program.


----------



## ugadog

jmpage2 said:


> Is there a part number, etc, on the M-card?


Motorola PN: 514517-002-00
Barcode SKU: 12572 14271

Good luck!


----------



## jmpage2

ugadog said:


> Motorola PN: 514517-002-00
> Barcode SKU: 12572 14271
> 
> Good luck!


Many, many thanks!

Now hopefully the tech who scheduled the appointment will call me back so I can give him this information.


----------



## bicker

jmpage2 said:


> Well, I've already got a couple of beefs with the Tivo HD. Tuner quality, at least on the analogs doesn't appear to be as good as the Motorola box it is replacing.


Strange... the tuner quality in my TiVo S3 was just as good as that in my Motorola box.



jmpage2 said:


> Additionally the UI is very very slow.


That's a known issue and is already fixed in a later version of the software, which you'll get later this year.


----------



## ScottE22

So, ugadog, any update on how the install went? Mine is tomorrow...


----------



## scotte3

I currently have DirecTV with a HR10-250 high-def Tivo. I'm considering switching to Insight Cable and using a TivoHD with cablecards. The rep I talked to told me they use Motorola single-stream cards. She told me the monthly charge was $1.99, but I could only get one card. Was getting a second card dependent on also using one of their cable boxes? She told me that cablecards support on-demand and ppv, but there is no onscreen guide. Can you confirm that this is the case? Would there be any reason why a cable box would be needed in addition to a TivoHD? When I asked if she could check and see what they have done with other customers using a TivoHD she told me she wasn't aware of any current customers using one.

On a related topic, if you have Insight Phone and/or RoadRunner would you comment on your opinions of them? I currently have AT&T phone/DSL. I'm located in Lewis Center (Columbus) Ohio.



knownzero said:


> I ordered my cablecards today from Insight. The rep on the phone (who was very nice!) had to put me on hold for a minute to check on the pricing (the first is free and the second is $1.99 if I keep my existing box). She asked if I was putting these in my TV's and I said no, it was for a Tivo HD and she says that they haven't done many of those but she was familiar with it. Hopefully that bodes well for the install on Monday. Also, since we're only talking about $1.99 extra a month, I'm going to keep the cable company DVR. It's not enough of a savings to get rid of it plus the thought of recording 4 HD streams at once gives me the warm and fuzzies.


----------



## jmpage2

scotte3 said:


> I currently have DirecTV with a HR10-250 high-def Tivo. I'm considering switching to Insight Cable and using a TivoHD with cablecards. The rep I talked to told me they use Motorola single-stream cards. She told me the monthly charge was $1.99, but I could only get one card. Was getting a second card dependent on also using one of their cable boxes? She told me that cablecards support on-demand and ppv, but there is no onscreen guide. Can you confirm that this is the case? Would there be any reason why a cable box would be needed in addition to a TivoHD? When I asked if she could check and see what they have done with other customers using a TivoHD she told me she wasn't aware of any current customers using one.
> 
> On a related topic, if you have Insight Phone and/or RoadRunner would you comment on your opinions of them? I currently have AT&T phone/DSL. I'm located in Lewis Center (Columbus) Ohio.


Cable cards don't support On Demand. You can do PPV in that you can call them on the phone, order PPV and then manually tune the Tivo in to the channel that they are sending the PPV on. At least that's how it should work.

You can definitely get two cable cards. Simply tell them that it's a Tivo Series 3 and that it takes two cable cards so that it can tune two different channels.

It sounds like you got a rep who doesn't know much about cablecard.


----------



## URPREY

scotte3 said:


> I currently have DirecTV with a HR10-250 high-def Tivo. I'm considering switching to Insight Cable and using a TivoHD with cablecards. The rep I talked to told me they use Motorola single-stream cards. She told me the monthly charge was $1.99, but I could only get one card. Was getting a second card dependent on also using one of their cable boxes? She told me that cablecards support on-demand and ppv, but there is no onscreen guide. Can you confirm that this is the case? Would there be any reason why a cable box would be needed in addition to a TivoHD? When I asked if she could check and see what they have done with other customers using a TivoHD she told me she wasn't aware of any current customers using one.
> 
> On a related topic, if you have Insight Phone and/or RoadRunner would you comment on your opinions of them? I currently have AT&T phone/DSL. I'm located in Lewis Center (Columbus) Ohio.


I have a Series 3 on Insight with dual cable cards. I also have a TiVo HD but Insight blew off the appointment to install them last week.

You can definitely get 2 cards from them for each unit. They swore up and down that it wasn't compatible with "their" cable cards, but it works. The only annoying thing is that my S3's cable cards lose authorization after an S3 reboot, requiring me to physically eject the cards and reinsert them one at a time. I installed a UPS so that shouldn't be an issue any longer, but it still sucks.

I have another appointment on Friday to have the TiVo HD cards installed. The S3 install took 5 trips for them to get it right (they were putting the wrong numbers into their system).

As stated above, their is no support in the TiVo for PPV or On Demand (I use neither, so it didn't bother me).

Hope all goes well with your install.

BTW, I have had Insight phone service for about 3-4 years and it works very well.


----------



## holligl

Went ahead and pulled the trigger with the CC $40 off. 

My major setup difficulties were with the Onkyo 804 I am routing it through (too many a/v connections/options). By the time I got the Audio and Video both working, and entered my card info for service activation, TiVo took their site down for maintenance. So close... 

Comment on the cables provided: 
Telephone - how quaint! (like how many more of these do I need?) Why not throw in the ethernet cable instead! 
Composite cables - Closer, but then you see the standard RCA A/V for audio, no digital audio (optical) 
What I really could have used was a single HDMI for both the Video and Digital Audio.


----------



## Langree

holligl said:


> Comment on the cables provided:
> Telephone - how quaint! (like how many more of these do I need?) Why not throw in the ethernet cable instead!
> Composite cables - Closer, but then you see the standard RCA A/V for audio, no digital audio (optical)
> What I really could have used was a single HDMI for both the Video and Digital Audio.


The only thing I've ever recieved an optical audio cable with in the box is my Onkyo DVD changer.

I think they are still boxing what they do because it's enough to get people up and running.

If they included just an HDMI cable many people wouldn't be able to use it.


----------



## Langree

jmpage2 said:


> Well, I've already got a couple of beefs with the Tivo HD. Tuner quality, at least on the analogs doesn't appear to be as good as the Motorola box it is replacing.
> 
> Additionally the UI is very very slow. I remember the menu on my DirecTiVo box being a lot snappier.
> 
> The guide software on my Motorola box is definitely quicker, a *lot* quicker than the Tivo.
> 
> The primary reason I am making the move to the Tivo is expandable storage (I've already bought a 500GB drive for it) and hopefully more stability as the Moto box has complained about being full a few times (when it wasn't) and not taping a program.


Once the cablecards are in place, and the system has guide data set it will be faster then it is initially.

I had my Comcast DVR for about 2 months, that was all I could take, the release of the TiVo HD was all I needed to return to TiVo.


----------



## TerryTT

Thanks to posts on this forum I was able to upgrade my new TivoHD to a 750gb drive last night; 98hrs of HD is a couple more than the awful comcast box it replaces.


----------



## ScottE22

TerryTT said:


> Thanks to posts on this forum I was able to upgrade my new TivoHD to a 750gb drive last night; 98hrs of HD is a couple more than the awful comcast box it replaces.


I'm a little bit jealous... 

Of course, after taking two days of Comcrap visits just to get it working (finally!), I'm not going to _touch_ it for a while...


----------



## jakerock

I bought one two days ago and have it set up. The card install is next Thursday since we are away on vacation starting Satruday. I have noticed two things that worry me.

When I try to permanently delete something it doesn't seem to work reliably. Nothing happens most of the time but after many attemps the thing goes away. This is not a big deal assuming it doesn't mean something is wrong with the unit.
*
The thing that worries me a lot*: I lost the picture at one point ending up with a gray screen. I could see the menu text over the gray but nothing else. No live TV, no recordings, nothing was ever visable except the menu text (now playing etc.) I finally reset the unit and have not had it completely go gray again. (I do nocite that I get gray screens fairly often when doing stuff - between menu changes etc. Is this normal?)

This makes me wonder if I should quickly exchange it for another today before I leave and get cable cards installed in it the next day I am home.

Any thoughts?


----------



## kaczmar2

I have Comcast cable and live in Royal Oak, MI. In my area, Comcast as a two-trunk (A+B) system - that is, I have two coax inputs. One trunk carries digital, one carries analog.

My current setup:

I have an HDTV with a CableCARD installed in the TV, but I only pay for analog service. Since Comcast is required to supply broadcast (ABC, CBS, NBC) HD channels, I get those for free by connecting the digital trunk of my cable to my TV, and I can see the broadcast channels, which are on a different input from my Series2 TiVo - so I can watch in HD, but not record it.

I have my Series2 TiVo connected to the analog trunk of my cable, so I can record all my channels in SD.

Clear as mud, right?

So my question is - can I get a TiVo HD to work with this mess? I don't want to buy an HD or digital tier package from Comcast - I'm fine with the only broadcast channels in HD, but I would like to get the HD DVR so I can record in HD on the broadcast channels, and SD everywhere else.

Does anyone have an HD TiVo running on a two-trunk cable system?


----------



## jsmiley125

jakerock said:


> When I try to permanently delete something it doesn't seem to work reliably. Nothing happens most of the time but after many attemps the thing goes away.


In my experience, this just sometimes takes a minute or two... but if it's taking longer and does it every single time, that seems odd.



jakerock said:


> *
> The thing that worries me a lot*: I lost the picture at one point ending up with a gray screen. I could see the menu text over the gray but nothing else. No live TV, no recordings, nothing was ever visable except the menu text (now playing etc.) I finally reset the unit and have not had it completely go gray again. (I do nocite that I get gray screens fairly often when doing stuff - between menu changes etc. Is this normal?)


You are the only other person who has described this problem, other than myself. Of course, I may just have missed other threads about it. What you describe has happend to me twice; each time, I had to reboot the TiVo to get it working again. I've also noticed that I will sometimes get grey screens on all my analog channels after the TiVo has been idle for a long time, like 7 or 8 hours. --That is, not recording, me not watching it, nothing happening at all; and ONLY on analog channels. Digital are all fine. Again, to fix it, I have to reboot the TiVo. I've kinda been hoping it was a glitch that will work itself out or TiVo will come out with another software fix. The truth? I've been too busy to return the box.

But if any grey screens appear again, the thing is going back to Best Buy. Pronto.


----------



## Langree

Comming from a DTV TiVo, I gotta say I love that there's a record light for each tuner.


----------



## humperdinck

I've also had the gray screen problem. Menu text was fine, no menu backgrounds, no video. Reboot fixed it.


----------



## fishboy

humperdinck said:


> I've also had the gray screen problem. Menu text was fine, no menu backgrounds, no video. Reboot fixed it.


I just set mine up tonight and had the same thing happen. I didn't look to see if live tv still worked because I was preparing it to recieve the latest update before the Comcast guy comes tomorrow with the Cablecards, so I just reboot the machine and it's worked so far. But, it hasn't run for 24 hours yet.

I can't remember where I saw this before, but I think I remember someone saying that this issue is related to pausing a program for an extended period of time and then the Tivo seems to do weird things. I can't recall if I had paused Live TV or not, so I can't confirm this. Anyway, I thought I'd mention it in case any of you decide you want to search for the issue in the forum (or others).


----------



## aaronwt

Langree said:


> Comming from a DTV TiVo, I gotta say I love that there's a record light for each tuner.


But it doesn't come on in standby like the S3 does. I hope they address that in the future.


----------



## Langree

aaronwt said:


> But it doesn't come on in standby like the S3 does. I hope they address that in the future.


I never put it in standby, never did with my dtivo either.


----------



## aaronwt

Langree said:


> I never put it in standby, never did with my dtivo either.


I put it in standby 95% of the time.


----------



## btwyx

If you're in standby a emergency broadcast system test won't cancel a recording. That's a good reason to use standby, particularly when there's a European Grand Prix (Formula 1) on. I lost part of one of those when they tested the EBS at 5am.


----------



## aaronwt

btwyx said:


> If you're in standby a emergency broadcast system test won't cancel a recording. That's a good reason to use standby, particularly when there's a European Grand Prix (Formula 1) on. I lost part of one of those when they tested the EBS at 5am.


My S3 continues to record when there is a test. I just can't access any menus or change the channel during the test but both tuners continue to record during and after the test here.


----------



## btwyx

aaronwt said:


> My S3 continues to record when there is a test.


Unless this has changed recently, mine doesn't. And I assume the behaviour would be the same on the HD.


----------



## aaronwt

I think it depends on how the test is implemented. I'm just glad the few times I noticed the test when I was recording that it didn't affect my recordings. WHether it stays like that or not I don't know.


----------



## platbr

We just added a Tivo HD to our media setup today, and overall we're pretty happy. We're with Comcast, dual cable cards, and we're receiving all the basic + premium channels without any problems.

However, there is one issue that is slightly frustrating. When I pull up the grid guide or the Tivo guide (or even the on-screen information), there is "stutter" in the sound with every press of the remote that changes something on the screen. It's kind of annoying -- I find myself muting if I'm using the guide. 

Is this a standard Series 3 "feature?" Could it be the optical sound I'm running? Any thoughts? A search didn't turn up any similar problems...


----------



## jakerock

Can you switch between the two tuners while watching 'live' TV? I found this to be pretty handy with the Comcast box under some circumstances. Do you have any control over which receiver you are watching or even any knowledge of it?


----------



## arainert

I've got a strange situation (Tivo HD) after wrangling with the Time Warner Cable (Brooklyn) folks for a total of probably 4 hours yesterday.

Cable Card 1 is Authorized though getting no ECMs,etc. 

Cable Cards 2 is Authorized, getting ECMs and generally flying high

When just watching TV everything is great. All the channels come in, etc but when I try to RECORD AND WATCH, I get a black screen. 

My guess is that Card 1 is not setup properly and not pulling in any of my channels.

Any thoughts on what I can do about this?

Thanks so much,

alex


----------



## jrm01

jakerock said:


> Can you switch between the two tuners while watching 'live' TV? I found this to be pretty handy with the Comcast box under some circumstances. Do you have any control over which receiver you are watching or even any knowledge of it?


You can switch between the tuners by hitting the Live TV button.

You can also see what is playing on the other tuner by hitting the Right Arrow button (next to select), the toggle down two positions. It will tell you what is on the other tuner and give you the option to change to it.

You can find out which tuner you are using by going to Account&System Info => Diagnostics and it will give you info about both tuners & cablecards, including the channel that is tuned to each.

You cannot control which tuner will be used (without a lot of game playing by forcing a recording on one and then tuning the other).


----------



## jakerock

jrm01 said:


> You can switch between the tuners by hitting the Live TV button.
> 
> You can also see what is playing on the other tuner by hitting the Right Arrow button (next to select), the toggle down two positions. It will tell you what is on the other tuner and give you the option to change to it.
> 
> You can find out which tuner you are using by going to Account&System Info => Diagnostics and it will give you info about both tuners & cablecards, including the channel that is tuned to each.
> 
> You cannot control which tuner will be used (without a lot of game playing by forcing a recording on one and then tuning the other).


Thanks! I tried looking in the user guide but the index didn't mention anything about tuner switching or even tuners.


----------



## TXTivoUser

jakerock said:


> Thanks! I tried looking in the user guide but the index didn't mention anything about tuner switching or even tuners.


Yup - it's my most favorite feature....that and dual buffers. :up: :up: :up:


----------



## megazone

aaronwt said:


> My S3 continues to record when there is a test. I just can't access any menus or change the channel during the test but both tuners continue to record during and after the test here.


That's supposed to be impossible. When an EAS message is sent, test or real, one of the tuners is required to jump to the channel with the message. I confirmed that behavior with TiVo when I confirmed with them that the unit does NOT do this while in Standby. (It is only required when it is possible someone is watching the output - since it doesn't have output in standby, it doesn't need to switch over.)

Have you actually seen an EAS alert and NOT had the channel change?


----------



## jrm01

megazone said:


> That's supposed to be impossible. When an EAS message is sent, test or real, one of the tuners is required to jump to the channel with the message. I confirmed that behavior with TiVo when I confirmed with them that the unit does NOT do this while in Standby. (It is only required when it is possible someone is watching the output - since it doesn't have output in standby, it doesn't need to switch over.)
> 
> Have you actually seen an EAS alert and NOT had the channel change?


My S3 goes to the alert page (black & white text) then goes back to the original programming. recording is disrupted only for the time it is on the alert page. When watching the recording you can fast forward over the alert. It happened just this week for a tornado alert in Pittsburgh (Comcast).

It also does that for the "Required Test of the System" almost everyday during the morning while watching CNBC.


----------



## aaronwt

megazone said:


> That's supposed to be impossible. When an EAS message is sent, test or real, one of the tuners is required to jump to the channel with the message. I confirmed that behavior with TiVo when I confirmed with them that the unit does NOT do this while in Standby. (It is only required when it is possible someone is watching the output - since it doesn't have output in standby, it doesn't need to switch over.)
> 
> Have you actually seen an EAS alert and NOT had the channel change?


The 3 times I was recording and watching, and alert popped up and I couldn't change the channel or tuner. When I went back to the recordings they were completely intact. The message being sent across the screen was just an overlay and wasn't in the recording. The recording was never interrupted.


----------



## sfhub

megazone said:


> That's supposed to be impossible. When an EAS message is sent, test or real, one of the tuners is required to jump to the channel with the message.


What happens if the EAS message is delivered in-band on the channel you are watching? The tuner doesn't have to change then right?

IIRC the EAS is delivered with a separate PID and PVRs can choose to record it along with the audio and video streams. Then later on they can compare time stamps to figure out whether it makes sense to display on delayed playback.

I don't know how TiVo implements it, but as long as the tuner doesn't need to change channels, I don't see why TiVo couldn't continue recording the show.


----------



## dipdewdog

aaronwt said:


> The 3 times I was recording and watching, and alert popped up and I couldn't change the channel or tuner. When I went back to the recordings they were completely intact. The message being sent across the screen was just an overlay and wasn't in the recording. The recording was never interrupted.


It sounds like you have a Scientific Atlanta headend.

Scientific Atlanta and Motorola systems handle EAS alerts differently. Motorola STB and CableCARDs are forced to tune to an alert channel to display an EAS alert; S-A systems display the alert as an overlay and (IIRC) download the audio as a wav over the OOB data stream. I prefer S-A's method.


----------



## moyekj

dipdewdog said:


> It sounds like you have a Scientific Atlanta headend.
> 
> Scientific Atlanta and Motorola systems handle EAS alerts differently. Motorola STB and CableCARDs are forced to tune to an alert channel to display an EAS alert; S-A systems display the alert as an overlay and (IIRC) download the audio as a wav over the OOB data stream. I prefer S-A's method.


 Yes I think you are right. Cox in this area uses Motorola STB and headend equipment and both the cable company DVR and the Tivo are force tuned to the EAS interrupting any recordings (on both tuners). What's worse is they don't return to recording once the EAS completes. So certainly if I go out of town for a few days I leave my Tivos in standby mode to avoid potential interruptions.


----------



## jrm01

dipdewdog said:


> It sounds like you have a Scientific Atlanta headend.
> 
> Scientific Atlanta and Motorola systems handle EAS alerts differently. Motorola STB and CableCARDs are forced to tune to an alert channel to display an EAS alert; S-A systems display the alert as an overlay and (IIRC) download the audio as a wav over the OOB data stream. I prefer S-A's method.


I have Comcast/Motorola and the alert is an overlay that does not disrupt channel assignment or recordings.


----------



## aaronwt

dipdewdog said:


> It sounds like you have a Scientific Atlanta headend.
> 
> Scientific Atlanta and Motorola systems handle EAS alerts differently. Motorola STB and CableCARDs are forced to tune to an alert channel to display an EAS alert; S-A systems display the alert as an overlay and (IIRC) download the audio as a wav over the OOB data stream. I prefer S-A's method.


The cable boxes and cable cards Comcast uses here are Scientific Atlanta.


----------



## sfhub

I'm wondering if the behavior changes whether you are watching/recording encrypted or not-encrypted channels.


----------



## aaronwt

On my S3 I was on encrypted channels when the test occurred.


----------



## Langree

I just had an EAS test come accross on one of the tuners I happened to be on, neither tuner stopped recording.


----------



## Langree

Comcrap tech was just here

moron

tried to tell me the Comcrap box is better then TiVo and how they are trying to steer away from Cablecards and how they never have issues with the company boxes  

Anyway, the guy was a tool and had all the troubleshooting skills of a lemming.


----------



## thepcdoc

Not for nothing but at this point my SA 8330HD is making my Tivo HD look like the Yugo of PVRs.


----------



## tootal2

Charter does not have cbs hd anymore. So i got tivo hd to record it ota I think i will get rid of my charter dvr and just get a charter hd box. since most of the hd channels 
on charter repeat the same shows all week. I wont be able to record hogan's heroes on hdnet anymore. but i got them all on dvd in my sony 400 dvd player.


----------



## bicker

Langree said:


> Comcrap tech was just here
> 
> moron
> 
> tried to tell me the Comcrap box is better then TiVo and how they are trying to steer away from Cablecards and how they never have issues with the company boxes
> 
> Anyway, the guy was a tool and had all the troubleshooting skills of a lemming.


He probably thought as charitably about you as you did about him.

I've found the Comcast techs around here to be professional, intelligent and hard-working.


----------



## Langree

bicker said:


> He probably thought as charitably about you as you did about him.
> 
> I've found the Comcast techs around here to be professional, intelligent and hard-working.


You know what, not his job to try and sell me on a Comcast box, it's his job to be a tech and well, do his job.

Also helpful if he actually knew what he was talking about and not just regurgitating the party line.


----------



## bicker

It is his job to do his job as his employer instructs him. Regardless, I've found the Comcast techs around here to be professional, intelligent and hard-working.


----------



## Fofer

Yes, but were they professional, intelligent and hard-working?


----------



## TerryTT

bicker said:


> It is his job to do his job as his employer instructs him. Regardless, I've found the Comcast techs around here to be professional, intelligent and hard-working.


Youre lucky! its all sub contractors in my area... the guy who installed cable wasnt happy with the run he had to do and moaned the whole time (new house without cable) so I pulled the internal run through the wall for him using my own coax out of pity.

The guy installing cable cards argued with me that they werent for tivos.

My dish install was amazing compared but dish CSR are awful.

They get paid by the job, so it must suck when a 20 minute job takes 3 hrs.


----------



## kaczmar2

I've answered some of my own questions here, so I just thought I'd post to share the info.

I verified that the channels coming in on the analog trunk are coming in and being mapped by my CableCARD as digital channels (although with different channel numbers.) This happened when they previously installed the CableCARD in my TV.

So, it looks like it will be an easy setup: just don't connect the second trunk to anything, and all the channels I get will come though in digital (plus the broadcast channels in HD). I verifed this by tuning to the non-HD channels I have available to me in my lineup - all were coming through the QAM tuner in my TV.

Not bad since I am only paying for basic (analog) cable service, and Comcast doesn't charge a monthly rental fee for the CableCARD (outside of a nominal hookup fee.)



kaczmar2 said:


> I have Comcast cable and live in Royal Oak, MI. In my area, Comcast as a two-trunk (A+B) system - that is, I have two coax inputs. One trunk carries digital, one carries analog.
> 
> My current setup:
> 
> I have an HDTV with a CableCARD installed in the TV, but I only pay for analog service. Since Comcast is required to supply broadcast (ABC, CBS, NBC) HD channels, I get those for free by connecting the digital trunk of my cable to my TV, and I can see the broadcast channels, which are on a different input from my Series2 TiVo - so I can watch in HD, but not record it.
> 
> I have my Series2 TiVo connected to the analog trunk of my cable, so I can record all my channels in SD.
> 
> Clear as mud, right?
> 
> So my question is - can I get a TiVo HD to work with this mess? I don't want to buy an HD or digital tier package from Comcast - I'm fine with the only broadcast channels in HD, but I would like to get the HD DVR so I can record in HD on the broadcast channels, and SD everywhere else.
> 
> Does anyone have an HD TiVo running on a two-trunk cable system?


----------



## DTSDude

Well, I'm on the bandwagon. Purchased my HD Tivo about a week ago, MCard was installed on Friday. Performed great over the weekend. I do get some very minor tiling on occasion but nothing that I can't live with.


----------



## PaulNEPats

Ehh I finally got my TivoHD up and running (somewhat, waiting on the tech to get a working cablecard for the 2nd slot), but the menus are slow as hell when it comes to loading. For all the pitfalls of the Comcast Moto DVR, it loaded menus a LOT faster. I'm new to Tivo, so maybe it's something I'll get used to with time.


----------



## jfh3

PaulNEPats said:


> Ehh I finally got my TivoHD up and running (somewhat, waiting on the tech to get a working cablecard for the 2nd slot), but the menus are slow as hell when it comes to loading. For all the pitfalls of the Comcast Moto DVR, it loaded menus a LOT faster. I'm new to Tivo, so maybe it's something I'll get used to with time.


It will take a day or so for the initial data to index. After that, you should see things a bit faster.

In addition, there are UI performance improvements in the 8.3 branch of code (that the S3 has now, but the THD doesn't yet) that will make things faster.


----------



## sammydee

I posted my positive install experience with Comcast San Jose in a couple of other threads. I'll summarize here by saying that Comcast, both the 800 number and the tech, knew exactly what they were doing wrt TiVo and cablecards and the installation went quickly and painlessly. I was amazed too!

...Sam


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

sammydee said:


> I posted my positive install experience with Comcast San Jose in a couple of other threads. I'll summarize here by saying that Comcast, both the 800 number and the tech, knew exactly what they were doing wrt TiVo and cablecards and the installation went quickly and painlessly. I was amazed too!


That's the heart of Silicon Valley. I'd be much more amazed if an install by the local cable monopoly in Podunkville, Arkansas went as smoothly.


----------



## andrews777

I have gotten the "grey screen hang" a couple of times on both of my Tivo HD units (both purchased within the last week or so). Rebooting fixed the problem.

Both auto-rebooted yesterday, something I guessed had to do with a software upgrade, but I am not certain.

Brad


----------



## doormat

I finally got around to getting my TiVo HD review up..

http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/447/TiVo+HD/

(mods: if its not the appropriate place to post reviews for the TiVo HD feel free to delete)


----------



## Sandlapper

PaulNEPats said:


> Ehh I finally got my TivoHD up and running (somewhat, waiting on the tech to get a working cablecard for the 2nd slot), but the menus are slow as hell when it comes to loading. For all the pitfalls of the Comcast Moto DVR, it loaded menus a LOT faster. I'm new to Tivo, so maybe it's something I'll get used to with time.


Don't worry, that's the kind of thing that can be fixed with software updates.


----------

