# Edge vs Bolt Picture Quality



## bjstick

Is there anyone here who has been able to compare the picture quality on the Edge to the Bolt? Like many, I've noticed that the Bolt's picture is incredibly soft compared to other devices and my LG TV's native apps.


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## buildersboy66

Well I only get 720p with Comcast. As far as I can tell Edge is slightly more sharp.


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## jwort93

I am very curious about the answer to this as well. I left TiVo because of the Bolt's soft picture quality, but I'm considering coming back if the Edge resolves, or at least improves this.


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## SNJpage1

The Bolt is a lot softer than the comcast X1 DVR. I have the contrast all the way up on the Bolt and I can still see a difference.


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## TostitoBandito

There's not going to be any appreciable difference between a Bolt, Edge, or a cable box assuming the sources are the same. There might be some minute difference in content that is scaled from 720p to 1080p or 4K by your Tivo (depending on your resolution settings) just due to the different scalar chips being used, but that's going to be tiny. Any modern device can competently scale HD content to various resolutions, even devices much cheaper than a Tivo (like a fire stick or a Roku).

Also keep in mind that cable PQ is generally low bitrate garbage, will look like ass everywhere, and is probably pretty hard to use to compare. Better to use something like Netflix, but if you have a 4K setup you have to mind the difference in capabilities between Tivo and other devices (no Dolby Vision for example). I've compared between my Tivo and my LG TV's apps and the PQ is indistinguishable for non-HDR content, and the bitrates are identical (15+ Mb/sec for 4K, 5-8 Mb/sec for 1080p).


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## seaninde

I got my Edge running and do not like the picture quality. I have been watching programming all night and the Bolt actually looks much better then the Edge on my OLEDs. The colors are off and richness gone. I checked all the settings. I would have to recalibrate my TV to try and get it back. Did not have to do that when switching from Comcast DVR to Bolt. My old Motorola DVR still is *super crystal clear* and the edge is soft/more fuzzy. I am not saying it is bad and if you have nothing to compare with you probably wouldn't have a problem with it. But I can't go to a worse picture from what I am used to. I think for me the cost of the unit is too high for a picture worse than what I have today. I'll just keep my Bolt & Motorola DVR and return the edge. Maybe a future model.


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## zubinh

seaninde said:


> I got my Edge running and do not like the picture quality. I have been watching programming all night and the Bolt actually looks much better then the Edge on my OLEDs. The colors are off and richness gone. I checked all the settings. I would have to recalibrate my TV to try and get it back. Did not have to do that when switching from Comcast DVR to Bolt. My old Motorola DVR still is *super crystal clear* and the edge is soft/more fuzzy. I am not saying it is bad and if you have nothing to compare with you probably wouldn't have a problem with it. But I can't go to a worse picture from what I am used to. I think for me the cost of the unit is too high for a picture worse than what I have today. I'll just keep my Bolt & Motorola DVR and return the edge. Maybe a future model.


Thanks for this. I may have the opportunity to potentially upgrade to an Edge from my Bolt Vox. It's been a few months since the last post in this thread so hopefully there are a few more folks who can attest the the PQ on the Edge vs. the Bolt. In addition to PQ, is the Edge noticeably faster??


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## southerndoc

Edge seems faster. I couldn't tell a difference in picture quality.


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## Jeff_DML

I would expect it to be the same or better since they are both using BRCM chipsets. I guess some sort of setting could be incorrect on edge but I have not see anything suggesting so.


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## philco782

I disabled HDR on my Edge and then the picture looks perfect. Much better picture then my old Premier. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doug G

I returned a Bolt after less than a week since the PQ was a huge step backwards compared to my Premiere (as evaluated on a JVC DLA-RS1x @ 104" and a 55" Sony XBR-X930E, both fully calibrated and color managed via an AVFoundry VideoEQ Pro sourced by a Reon HQV in my Onkyo TX-NR5007 AVR.) I ended up replacing the HDD in my Premiere and keeping it. The Premiere design is THX certified. Its a QUALITY product - something Tivo knows nothing about anymore (from a hardware OR software perspective.) After seeing how pre-roll ads are now being involuntarily forced on subscribers, it made me even more glad I did this.

Posts like the one from "TostitoBandito" above are both ill-informed and just completely wrong. People think because its digital end-to-end now, that quality is all "the same". That its all about the "bit rate". Wrong and wrong. Arris makes both the Edge and the Bolt devices which are aimed primarily at cable companies. As its a commodity item for them the main requirement is "cheapest COGS which is 'good enough' for the masses." Unfortunately this is a really, really low bar. It means an "anything in / utter garbage out" cheap SoC to do all the video processing. I expect there's no significant difference between the Bolt and Edge, they likely both have unacceptable PQ for those of us who actually still care. Just because some might find the PQ "ok" or even "perfect" doesn't make it so.

I just hope something else comes along by the time both my Tivo Premieres die. Yeah, the few apps they support are super slow. They reboot randomly overnight for no apparent reason. Did I mention over a year later and the new guide data still totally sucks? But they mostly work so I just have to live with the quirks. The horrendous quality products and bait and switch forced ads on people who already pay a monthly fee is so egregious and slimy its pathetic. I pity Tivo, they used to have really great products that enabled their customers to improve their lives, albeit at a cost. Now they just see them as a hoard of mindless dollar signs. Truthfully, if this is the only way they can continue, I'd rather see them go out of business.


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## justen_m

Doug G said:


> do all the video processing.


What video processing happens inside the TiVo if a pass-through setting is selected? The TiVo doesn't even do scaling in this mode.


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## Doug G

justen_m said:


> What video processing


The program stream is always decoded, and just as subject to design incompetence/cheap-out as any other kind of video processing. Similar to audio DACs where a select few are very nicely implemented and offer high quality, but the vast majority are cheap garbage which is "good enough for the masses" because the primary and only real design goal is COST.

The entire point of my post above is that digital is NOT absolute.

Look at the thing, its only slightly less horrendous looking than a Bolt. As soon as vendors start choosing "form over function", its a dead giveaway that what's inside doesn't matter any more. Started with the Bolt. Aforementioned video issues aside, still a POS in every other way. Products focused on their primary functionality put all their effort into that and not the box it comes in, which is completely inconsequential.

So Tivo wants me to pay $400 for a unit where I can't opt out of their forced ads even though I pay a monthly membership fee and which would never even come close to being THX certified? No thanks.

Sorry if I sound bitter, but I am. We're all being held hostage by a once-great company that had very good products and holds effectively every patent in the DVR world making it impossible for any other company to fill the void. So we're stuck with their lousy products, bad (but cheap!) "guide" data, and involuntary participation in their Draconian "revenue" policies. They're going down in flames and they're taking the rest of us with them, like it or not.


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## tenthplanet

You might as well stick with the Premiere's for now, the future of DVRs won't be hardware based, it will be in the cloud.


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## jwort93

justen_m said:


> What video processing happens inside the TiVo if a pass-through setting is selected? The TiVo doesn't even do scaling in this mode.


Decoding and Chroma upscaling at a bare minimum. But as others have mentioned, there is usually other stuff too.


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## Rose4uKY

Can I ask a question? We have a Tivo Roamio Plus 6 tuner and 2 mini's and yesterday an ad popped up for the bolt. Our main TV is a 4K other 2 are not. I can get a 6 tuner 1TB bolt for 199 right now and was told monthly would be 9.99 $5 off of what I am paying now $14.99. Not sure how many gigs are Roamio is but it's 6 tuner the other Bolt is $99 for 500GB and only 4 tuners. I just like 6 cause we never have to worry. I was going to discuss it with my husband and decided to come here and read up on the bolt and now I see their is an Edge? I don't know even know about it nor have I heard of it. So it must be the newest model if they are discounting the Bolt correct? Does it support 4K also like the Bolt? I mean technically we are fine with what we have and we use the Roku 4K for watching Netflix and Prime but for me it would be easier to just watch it through the Tivo and I kind of like the idea of Voice Remote if it works well. Mainly want it cause of 4K. Just Curious if it's worth getting the bolt cause of the 4K since we have a nice 70 inch Vizio 4K TV. And if the Edge is 4K is it worth the extra money? Thanks! I haven't been here in a while but have had every Tivo since the 1st one single tuner. Bought a Premiere when we moved in 2013 and 2 weeks later the Roamio came out and we got to exchange. So we've had this for a while. Wonder if anyone would buy our Roamio?

Edit: Tivo said only difference is the Edge is 2TB over Bolt Vox 1TB and that the Edge has Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision which I don't know what Dolby Vision is. But we have a really nice Nakamichi soundbar we use. So I am guessing maybe the Bolt Vox would be fine for us if we were to upgrade since it's a $100 off and $5 off the monthly from what I am paying now. Oh and the Edge remote is backlit I really would want to buy an extra remote and have that one so we each have our own remote will they both work the box if we had 2 remotes?


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## JxxAxxY

Dolby Vision is another version of HDR just Dolbys take on it. Atmos is for height speakers. This means speakers that either bounce sound off the ceiling or speakers pointing down from the ceiling so it sounds like sound coming from above. Edge has a better blower for heat dissipation. Also HDR is always on. Some complain about it some like it. You can turn it off and on but it is all or nothing. Some sony TVs don't work with it correctly. My Edge didn't come with a backlit remote. I had to buy them separate for my Edge and Minis (This was when it was first released). My minis are the vox version. Now they could have switched the remotes the edge comes with but not sure. I also run the TE4 version as TE3 isn't compatible with all new devices like the wireless adapter. In order to get my remotes to pair correctly I had to reset the edge and mini to factory settings losing my recordings on the edge (Clear & Delete Everything). It seems when you first get the device and update to the current version something gets corrupted with the remote pairing. Once I reset everything after the software has been updated, it then allowed me to pair the remote on all devices correctly. I love the backlit remote. Just not the pain of getting it to work. You may not run into the issues I did with it but I got another vox mini back in February and ran into the same issue.


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## Rose4uKY

Thanks! I wasn't sure what Dolby Vision was I know Dolby Atmos cause my husband has a really nice 9.2 Nakamichi soundbar he got when we got our 4K TV. I had a long talk with Tivo yesterday and decided due to the special and we've had our Roamio since 2013 so I don't plan on upgrading again anytime soon but we went with the Bolt. It was 199 for the 6 tuner 1TB like we have now and we went ahead and did the Lifetime it was $249 or 9.99 a month and that for 2 years was almost $249. I wanted an extra remote so me and my husband d would both have our own but the regular Vox remote 39.99 they are out of the Lux remote he called it is the backlit one for $20 more is it worth it does it light up good? And then he told me that our old mini's which is probably the 1st ones to come out back when we got out Roamio I don't know would be updated to the new software to go with our new box. He said call back and tech support would help us transfer shows. I remember once before going online and check marking stuff and moving it over online at Tivo website. I hope everything goes smoothly and we don't have any problems and lose our recordings.

I just hope it was worth it to upgrade. I mean we do have a 4K TV now and he always uses the 4K Roku Ultra for Netflix and Prime but I will go right through the Tivo now with it's remote and I know I will like that better. I never use the Roku my husband does. I love my Tivo remote. But anyway how well is this voice feature. I'd like to find a thread on here of people who went from Roamio Plus to Bolt. Tivo said lots of people are getting this deal and most are also doing the lifetime since it was $300 off and a $100 off the box. Now to sell our Roamio. And one last question since out other 2 TV's are not 4K theirs really wasn't a reason to upgrade our Mini's to the VOX correct and what is the difference is it just the 4K and the Vox remote? Cause the TiVo guy tried telling me once we update the software if we ever get 4K TV's in our other rooms we would be good but I didn't think that sounded right.



JxxAxxY said:


> Dolby Vision is another version of HDR just Dolbys take on it. Atmos is for height speakers. This means speakers that either bounce sound off the ceiling or speakers pointing down from the ceiling so it sounds like sound coming from above. Edge has a better blower for heat dissipation. Also HDR is always on. Some complain about it some like it. You can turn it off and on but it is all or nothing. Some sony TVs don't work with it correctly. My Edge didn't come with a backlit remote. I had to buy them separate for my Edge and Minis (This was when it was first released). My minis are the vox version. Now they could have switched the remotes the edge comes with but not sure. I also run the TE4 version as TE3 isn't compatible with all new devices like the wireless adapter. In order to get my remotes to pair correctly I had to reset the edge and mini to factory settings losing my recordings on the edge (Clear & Delete Everything). It seems when you first get the device and update to the current version something gets corrupted with the remote pairing. Once I reset everything after the software has been updated, it then allowed me to pair the remote on all devices correctly. I love the backlit remote. Just not the pain of getting it to work. You may not run into the issues I did with it but I got another vox mini back in February and ran into the same issue.


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## KevTech

JxxAxxY said:


> Dolby Vision is another version of HDR just Dolbys take on it.


They are a bit different.

Dolby Vision has more colors than HDR10.

Dolby Vision is dynamic while HDR10 is static.

What this means is Dolby Vision can set things from metadata on a frame by frame basic while HDR10 sets it at the start of the show/movie and remains the same for the entire show/movie.

Just having a Tivo Edge does not mean you can get Dolby Vision as your TV has to support Dolby Vision as well.


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## compnurd

KevTech said:


> They are a bit different.
> 
> Dolby Vision has more colors than HDR10.
> 
> Dolby Vision is dynamic while HDR10 is static.
> 
> What this means is Dolby Vision can set things from metadata on a frame by frame basic while HDR10 sets it at the start of the show/movie and remains the same for the entire show/movie.
> 
> Just having a Tivo Edge does not mean you can get Dolby Vision as your TV has to support Dolby Vision as well.


And you need content. Which on the Edge is only from Netflix


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## Rose4uKY

KevTech said:


> They are a bit different.
> 
> Dolby Vision has more colors than HDR10.
> 
> Dolby Vision is dynamic while HDR10 is static.
> 
> What this means is Dolby Vision can set things from metadata on a frame by frame basic while HDR10 sets it at the start of the show/movie and remains the same for the entire show/movie.
> 
> Just having a Tivo Edge does not mean you can get Dolby Vision as your TV has to support Dolby Vision as well.


Oh ok thanks for the clarification! Cuz I don't know anything about our Vizio 4K smart TV. But getting a bolt for $199 with lifetime for $249 we took it just to get the 4K bolt since we still have a Romeo plus that we've had since 2013. A lot of people don't care or use the voice but it sounds cool to me to try. I do know we have a very nice nakamichi sound bar 9.2 that does Dolby Atmos.


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## Davelnlr_

Comcast sends 720p, so using that to compare, the Premier, and Bolt both look the same to me. No difference in PQ between Roku 4K stick and Xfinity Stream app either. If the bolt looks soft compared to others, it has to be a setting somewhere that is set wrong (like tv being in soap opera mode).


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## Rose4uKY

Tivo told me the Amazon and Netflix on the bolt would be the same as on the Roamio. But we don't use the it now on the Roamio because we got a 4K TV now and we have a 4K Roku Ultra. But since the Bolt is 4K they said use the Tivo and we will be able to utilize 4K now over having the Roamio.


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## Mikeguy

Given the slighter advances of the Edge platform over the Bolt platform, and the prices in the current sale, Bolt box :up: (unless there is something in the Edge box that you really need).


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## pbug56

A couple notes; I migrated from Altice / Optimum (the A1 service) recently. 1. With Altice One it is VERY difficult to get their cablecards working - most are incompatible with A1. Also, over the last several months TIVO's on A1 at least in the NYC area have been having constant freezes and V58 channel not authorized errors. Altice customer disservice offers to send out a tech for $80 and refuses to acknowledge that this is a systemwide fault. After the recent I storm on the east coast, with Altice not deploying generators for distribution amps the way predecessor Cablevision did post superstorm Sandy, with resultant week to multi week outages, piles of people have migrated from A to FIOS, as have I. We had initial problems with one of the Motorola cable cards, fixed a few days later. 

The picture quality with FIOS (fiber) versus A1 (coax) is far better. Sharp, better color, etc. on both my ROAMIO and my Bolt. Bolt produces at least as good a picture as ROAMIO in my experience. I'd say that both look about the same on FIOS as do the FIOS STB's.


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## Gerhard

Yeah, and to add to that last post... FIOS will now allow you to call them and they'll even re-pair your existing cable card with a new Tivo product if you are upgrading.

That was a surprise given the crap I've had to go through in the past!


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## mkinn

1• Don't let the cable box upscale your HD. Set it for pass-thru so if it's 720 (ABC, DIsney, A&E, ESPN, others), that will go thru to the TiVo. If it's 1080i (ALL others) that goes thru. Set your Tivo to output 1080i and 720 so IT won't upscale, either. Your TV will do a MUCH better job of upscaling it than ANY chipset in a box. (EXCEPT for old SONY LCD TV's, they usually look better if the cable box upscales everything to 1080i) 
2• There WILL be a delay in changing channels, while the TV changes resolutions, but if you want the best picture, too bad, you will have this delay. If you don't like the delay, set the cable box to output 1080i only) 
3• Obviously, select 4K as well if you own a 4K TV and plan to watch 4K content (YouTube, streaming apps, etc.)
TV tech, ISF calibrator since '94.


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