# TTG for MAC OSX Mid 2006 = June ?



## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

TiVo sources had previously announced that TTG for Mac would be out in Mid 2006. 
So does that mean June, July?. June would be nice since I was originally expecting it in Jan '05 when the Windows version was released. They neglected to mention when they announced the feature in Jan '04 that it would be a 1 1/2 year wait for the Mac version. An alpha version was shown at CES in Jan. Screenshots courtesy of Megazone.com.

http://www.megazone.org/Photos/CES2006/TiVo/SMALL/TTG-Mac-1.JPG

Also, if they're doing they're homework, (and making it worth the wait) this will be a Universal Binary version. If not, I guess we should all check back in Mid 2008.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

They've been pretty vague about it. The "Mid 2006" announcement is all they've really said so far. 

Hopefully Universal Binary. Since I don't have an Intel based Mac, I'd be perfectly fine with a PPC version first, with a Universal version a month or two off (c:


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

TydalForce said:


> They've been pretty vague about it. The "Mid 2006" announcement is all they've really said so far.
> 
> Hopefully Universal Binary. Since I don't have an Intel based Mac, I'd be perfectly fine with a PPC version first, with a Universal version a month or two off (c:


Maybe they'll show it again at NAB. April 24 - 27 in Vegas. 
http://www.nabshow.com/

Hopefully they'll have a release date by then.


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## konakahuna (Mar 3, 2006)

i really don't understand the delay. it's not like the software is rocket science. taking a look at what the software must do:

1) connect to tivo - you can do this from a web browser already. DONE
2) pull file across network from tivo to mac - we can do this now. DONE
3) unlock file with media access key
4) burn with your choice of DVD software. easy. DONE 

all we're missing is step #3. how frickin' hard is step #3 when tivo knows exactly how they locked up the file to begin with?

i love my tivo but am learning to hate the company itself. here's a tip, tivo, if you're listening....instead of rolling out new features to attract business, how about fully implementing the features you've already promised.

if you can't do right by your existing customers, then you don't deserve to get new ones.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I always thought it had something to do with Microsoft. Tivo's using a Microsoft method of decrypting the video, aren't they? I always just assumed they had to wait on Microsoft to implement it in the OS X version of Windows Media Player?


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

I think it goes something like this...

the video on the TiVo doesn't have any DRM. Its also not-quite-MPEG2 which is why you can't just pull a video file via the https interface and play it with anything. 

So in order to transfer it to the computer, two things have to happen:
1 - its either transcoded to mpeg2, or TiVo has a codec you have to install on your computer (not sure which one happens, I think the codec)
2 - DRM is applied to the video file so it isn't uploaded to every P2P site out there

Step 1 is relatively easy to deal with. Step 2 is the tricky part. They're using Microsoft's DRM scheme right now with TTG for Windows. MS will let anyone sign up for it (for a fee, presumably). However it ONLY works with Windows.

In contrast, Apple has been pretty protective of its FairPlay DRM. So TiVo can't just go "Hey Apple, can we use this?" Therefore, they have to build their own, since nobody else has made a DRM scheme for OS X (that I'm aware of). Of course, this takes a bit of time.

That's my theory on the delay.


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## colforbin13 (Jan 31, 2005)

I think what they might end up doing instead of DRM for the OSX version is to place a "watermark" on the file, similar to what's been porposed for the iPod/PSP implementation. That way, a straight MPG file can be transferred over without any tricky DRM, and it can still be tracked back to whoever originally recorded the show so TiVo can keep the TV networks happy.

If this is what they're doing, it goes back to "how hard can that be", but if their developers aren't familiar with programming for Mac OS, they have to get new talent in to work on the project. That can take time to train someone and get them familiar with how the TiVo Desktop software works before they can start porting it over to OSX.

Personally not having a Mac (yet, I'm hoping for a Universal binary too), it doesn't affect me, but the delay does seem longer than it should be, but I obviously don't know all the behind the scenes details.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

Puppy76 said:


> I always thought it had something to do with Microsoft. Tivo's using a Microsoft method of decrypting the video, aren't they? I always just assumed they had to wait on Microsoft to implement it in the OS X version of Windows Media Player?


I hope it will not be WMP based on the Mac. Microsoft is no longer updating WMP for Mac, it is a dead product.


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## gtrogue (Jun 18, 2001)

colforbin13 said:


> If this is what they're doing, it goes back to "how hard can that be", but if their developers aren't familiar with programming for Mac OS, they have to get new talent in to work on the project. That can take time to train someone and get them familiar with how the TiVo Desktop software works before they can start porting it over to OSX.


Tivo is a Linux based product and OS X is Unix based. I doubt an inability to code for the Mac is a problem.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Regarding the watermarking-if they did that, I'd guess they'd just switch over entirly to that method. It would have the side effect of probably speeding up transfers (particularly from the sluggish 5x0 series boxes).


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

gtrogue said:


> Tivo is a Linux based product and OS X is Unix based. I doubt an inability to code for the Mac is a problem.


Depends upon the type of program.

Little in the way of coding on Linux is transferable to programming UI apps in Cocoa. But Cocoa is a decent framework and any competent programmer can come up to speed on it fairly quickly provided they can wrap their minds around Objective-C.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

tonyf3 said:


> Maybe they'll show it again at NAB. April 24 - 27 in Vegas.
> http://www.nabshow.com/
> 
> Hopefully they'll have a release date by then.


Whoops!, I checked the exhibitor listings and I couldn't find them.

Too bad, I'd love to get more details on the Series 3 and their new
pricing structure.


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## konakahuna (Mar 3, 2006)

bump


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## ccoulson (May 24, 2003)

I, too, am anxiously awaiting this! However, having worked for a software company that defined "mid this year" as anything other than Jan 1 and Dec 31, I'm not holding my breath for a June/July release...


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## ccoulson (May 24, 2003)

Interesting post by masterrobyn from 3/31 on tivolovers.com:

04:56 pm - TiVoToGo 2 Mac OS X
I thought you guys would want to hear this. I bought a new Series 2 TiVo yesterday morning after having an old one since 2001, knowing that Mac OS X integration would would be happening soon. (see this [tho until recently it said in April 2006] and this screenshot provided by [info]zonereyrie in this 4um!)

Yesterday evening, I noticed that a service update was in progress. I had surfed through several of the notices and copyright info. Today, I noticed big changes in my TiVo including this listed in the new "Copyright & Trademarks" section:

"This software makes use of Apple's Bonjour network discovery protocol. Source code for the Bonjour software is available at http://developer.apple.com/networking/bonjour/ and is subject to the of the Apple Public Source License."

That wasn't there yesterday! Also the "Music & Pictures" section on the front page was renamed "Music, Photos, Products, & More"

I swore up and down that there would be iTunes integration, not just some TiVoToGo app. I think I'm right. I think I'm gonna find out tomorrow or Monday. Watch the QuickTime Guide for more info about "an special announcement."

I hope this isn't old news to you guys.​
I also noticed the copyright notice...


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

ccoulson said:


> Yesterday evening, I noticed that a service update was in progress. I had surfed through several of the notices and copyright info. Today, I noticed big changes in my TiVo including this listed in the new "Copyright & Trademarks" section:
> 
> "This software makes use of Apple's Bonjour network discovery protocol. Source code for the Bonjour software is available at http://developer.apple.com/networking/bonjour/ and is subject to the of the Apple Public Source License."
> 
> That wasn't there yesterday! Also the "Music & Pictures" section on the front page was renamed "Music, Photos, Products, & More"


That's been there as long as I remember... A year or more anyway...


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

SullyND said:


> That's been there as long as I remember... A year or more anyway...


It's been there for a while, although it looks like it's changed from "Rendezvous" to "Bonjour" to keep up with Apple's naming. (Not surprising, since Apple had to change the name after trademark issues.)

TiVo Desktop on the Mac has always used ZeroConf/Bonjour/Rendezvous to advertise itself to the TiVo, as far as I can remember.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Yea, this ain't nuthin new


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

No takers on this, huh. TiVo Pony your thoughts? I'd like to think that after almost a year and a half and an announced release of "Mid 2006" that we could get a mention as to which month qualifies as "Mid 2006"


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

tonyf3 said:


> No takers on this, huh. TiVo Pony your thoughts? I'd like to think that after almost a year and a half and an announced release of "Mid 2006" that we could get a mention as to which month qualifies as "Mid 2006"


Yea right


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

After all the crap they've taken, you honestly expect them to give a month so that if it doesn't meet the deadline they can go through another round of "TiVo hates Mac users!"?

Not very likely.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

And after all the crap we've (Mac users) have taked do you expect us not to at least ask for clarification (even though we highly doubt we'll get such clarity anytime soon)?

Also not very likely.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

If it'll help speed up the process, I'm quite sure a number of us Mac users would gladly volunteer to help beta-test TTG for Mac 

I know I'd be up for the challenge! ;-)


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## konakahuna (Mar 3, 2006)

saving money and time by getting your installed user base to volunteer for product testing?

who would do something crazy like that?

better to promise support....do nothing for 6 months or so, then post for a mac support person and put the whole burden of development on them. show an alpha build at a trade show while your 3 in-house testers try to get it out the door themselves.

you wouldn't want the freee help of hundreds of actual users....

that would be suicide.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TiVo does do beta testing with actual users. However they do it in a more controlled fashion then just releasing the beta to the public with a disclaimer saying "If it blows up your TiVo it's not our fault. It's beta software!". They hand select a few testers to start, then add more and more until they're ready to release it to the public. If you're interested in becoming one of these testers you can sign up here...

http://www.tivo.com/beta

There is no guarantee you'll get picked, but you never know. 

Dan


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I just signed up for the Beta thing...but now I'm nervous. They're not going to load Beta software on my Tivo without giving me a chance to say "no" are they? Now I wish I hadn't done this 

I only signed up in the hopes of getting to test a Series 3 or maybe at least a better Tivo Desktop or a Mac TivoDesktop that supports TivotoGo...but I don't want to risk wrecking my flawless Tivo 

Also, they didn't give me a chance to select multiple operating systems in the computer section. I choose Windows XP, because that's my main one, but I have a Mac too...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

They will not send you beta software out of the blue. If you're chosen you will first be sent an invitation. If you accept that then you'll get the software. If you don't want the software then you can simply ignore the invitation.

Dan


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

I'm already signed up for the Beta program... just wanted to weigh in somewhere else ;-}

Puppy, if you want to have the possibility of beta testing TTG for Mac (or anything else TiVo related to Mac) then you should probably go back and change your answer on that question from Windows to Macintosh.

Though, they really should let you specify multiple OS's if you have them...


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Dan203, thanks for the info, makes me feel a lot better! I don't think they'll pick me anyway since it thinks I "skipped" questions (I don't HAVE a satelite reciever!  )

TydalForce, if I have to choose, I want Windows as my primary choice since it is my main OS. But it's goofy you can't choose multiple OSs. Geez, you can run Windows and Mac OS on the same system now. What do you choose then? 

I am hoping I can use an older iMac as sort of my "Tivo Proccessing Station"-use it to offload shows and convert them to an MPEG-4/Palm format.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> I am hoping I can use an older iMac as sort of my "Tivo Proccessing Station"-use it to offload shows and convert them to an MPEG-4/Palm format.


You could always do so with VirtualPC - I've heard of some people using TTG and... DirectShow Dump (???) in VPC to retrieve the files and convert them to something Mac-able... then you can do whatever you want with them on the Mac side.

VPC is pretty slow; I haven't yet tried this trick out myself though it's on my to-do list. I probably won't use it full-time myself but I'd like to see how it works

Once TTG for OS X comes out, I'll just use that (c:


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> And after all the crap we've (Mac users) have taked do you expect us not to at least ask for clarification (even though we highly doubt we'll get such clarity anytime soon)?
> 
> Also not very likely.


I'm a Mac user who is extremely interested in TTG for Mac. I also have a PC that I'm using for now, but I wish I didn't have to use the Sonic software and am hoping it integrates with iMovie/iDVD.

However, I don't expect a date given any time soon, and by "mid-2006" am expecting it around September. I'm hoping to be chosen to beta test it, but won't hold my breath.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Not really pratical for this. It's a 700MHz G3, which is DIRT slow (it's still processing a work unit from last July from Folding @ Home!) But I guess it dosen't use a lot of power, so I don't care much if it's running a lot-plus I don't care if it wears out (and it's in the kitchen)-so I figure it's perfect for Tivo processing duties-even if it has to run all night sometimes to do them


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

My 500Mhz G3 can easily handle ToGo and GoBack from Galleon and can handle playback. Your 700Mhz should too.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

I think the issue is, a G3 iMac isn't great at running Virtual PC... but, it can do it.. if you've got enough RAM and some patience (c:


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Yeah, plus I'm thinking it'll take days to convert video if/when Tivo2Go for the mac has a "click to MPEG4" type option.

Also-I love that earlier idea of having it integrated to iMove/iDvd. That would be SOOOO much better than having to rely on Sonic on the PC side (not that I ever care about burning DVDs...but it could be handy to move shows into another room on a normal DVD player).


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

I Wouldn't be surprised if TTG for OS X requires a G4 processor. That's the kind of thing that would really take advantage of altivec 

Though, I'm not sure if coding for altivec would make it harder to create a universal binary. On the other hand, they might just run everything through QuickTime engine so it wouldn't matter anyway... 

So many options, so little programming knowledge from me... lol


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

It wouldn't help at all for just transfering stuff over, but would be a HUUUUUUUUUGE benefit for transcoding video. Hopefully it'll run on a G3 though...and yeah, hopefully it'll be a universal binary too. Wouldn't want to do transcoding with a non-native app!


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

doesn't TTG do some kind of, encoding, or DRM-ing or something when it gets transferred from the TiVo to the PC? Like, they're in MPEG2ish format on the TiVo, but don't the Windows users get it in some kind of Windows Media format?

Does TTG do that? Or is that done on the TiVo side *before* it gets transferred out? If its done by TTG, then the transfer would benefit from altivec and such... 

Of course, I make most of this up as I go along (c:


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## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

TydalForce said:


> doesn't TTG do some kind of, encoding, or DRM-ing or something when it gets transferred from the TiVo to the PC? Like, they're in MPEG2ish format on the TiVo, but don't the Windows users get it in some kind of Windows Media format?
> 
> Does TTG do that? Or is that done on the TiVo side *before* it gets transferred out? If its done by TTG, then the transfer would benefit from altivec and such...
> 
> Of course, I make most of this up as I go along (c:


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3963701&&#post3963701


Dan203 said:


> DRM is not "added" to TTG files. It's add to the TiVo stream as it's being recorded to hard drive...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

As I said in my other post, which greg quoted, the DRM is not added to TTG files. TiVo encrypts all MPEG data as it's being recorded to the hard drive. This helps "protect" it from simply being extracted from the drive directly, and also while it's being transmitted via TTG or multi-room viewing. Really the only difference between TTG and MRV is that for TTG the audio, video and metadata are all multiplexed into a MPEG-2 program stream, rather then being transfered in their native TY stream format. This is done for compatibility on the PC side, since MPEG-2 program streams are the most common form of storing MPEG-2 data and can be decoded using a wide variety of DirectShow filters from numerous venders.

Dan


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

yeah that part, the multiplexed thing... is that done on the TiVo side before leaving? Or on the TTG side?


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

The Tivo does it, and that's why Tivo2go is slowish, slower than MRV.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> TiVo does do beta testing with actual users. However they do it in a more controlled fashion then just releasing the beta to the public with a disclaimer saying "If it blows up your TiVo it's not our fault. It's beta software!". They hand select a few testers to start, then add more and more until they're ready to release it to the public. If you're interested in becoming one of these testers you can sign up here...
> 
> http://www.tivo.com/beta
> 
> ...


I'd be curious to know if there are any Beta testers out there for TTG for Mac and what their experinece has been.


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## Turtleboy (Mar 24, 2001)

tonyf3 said:


> I'd be curious to know if there are any Beta testers out there for TTG for Mac and what their experinece has been.


If there are, they are covered by an NDA and can't say anything.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

7.2.2 Update for 80hr S2 have finally enabled Fandango & Yahoo apps.
Still waiting on the "Mid 2006" TTG thing.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

If TTG comes out after July, I wouldn't call it "Mid 2006".


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

tonyf3 said:


> If TTG comes out after July, I wouldn't call it "Mid 2006".


Why not? It's a range -- "Early 2006" would be Jan 1-Apr 30, "Mid 2006" would be May 1-Aug 31, and "Late 2006" would be Sept 1-Dec 31, wouldn't it?


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

tonyf3 said:


> I'd be curious to know if there are any Beta testers out there for TTG for Mac and what their experinece has been.





Turtleboy said:


> If there are, they are covered by an NDA and can't say anything.


Yes, PLEASE don't tempt or encourage a beta tester to share any information. It's STRICTLY forbidden.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Why not? It's a range -- "Early 2006" would be Jan 1-Apr 30, "Mid 2006" would be May 1-Aug 31, and "Late 2006" would be Sept 1-Dec 31, wouldn't it?


I guess so Dennis. I was thinking by quarters. The half or mid point of 2006 would be 6 months in. So, June. If you're going by thirds then you're correct. 
I guess I'm just impatient for a release date. After 2 1/2 years since it was announced, 1 1/2 yrs since it's Windows release, and no real communication to it's paying subscriber base on the subject. They showed it it January, so

BTW, Thanks for all your efforts to bridge the gaps. I know everyone appriciates it.


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

tonyf3 said:


> BTW, Thanks for all your efforts to bridge the gaps. I know everyone appriciates it.


Not a big deal, really -- I'm just finding things that TiVo's coded and left for me to find. 

Of course, even if Mac TTG were already shipping, I'd still be poking at the executable with several sharp sticks... I'm a geek. It's what I do.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

I'm sure you will be poking at it when it comes out, and will get even more out of it than they planned.

Also, I think you've reached Celeb status...you've been quoted on engadget.com.
http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/04/mac-universal-tivo-desktop-released-hackable/

Their podcasts are pretty good too.

TF


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

I'd love for Engadget to do a segment on this saga for their podcast. Maybe a phone interview?
No ranting just the facts.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

tonyf3 said:


> I'd love for Engadget to do a segment on this saga for their podcast. Maybe a phone interview?
> No ranting just the facts.


actually I have lurked on your threads for a while. I really respect how you have kept this issue alive without it turning into a rant fest. :up:


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

ZeoTiVo said:


> actually I have lurked on your threads for a while. I really respect how you have kept this issue alive without it turning into a rant fest. :up:


Thanks, I'm just trying to keep them honest. 
As well as remind them that despite what is repeatedly said about market share, 
the Apple/Mac user base does matter and is more relevant then ever.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

Originally Posted by Dennis Wilkinson 
"Early 2006" would be Jan 1-Apr 30, "Mid 2006" would be May 1-Aug 31, and "Late 2006" would be Sept 1-Dec 31, wouldn't it? 

Hmmm...It's June 10th. I'm beginning to think Dennis is right. 
At least we're almost at the "Mid Point" of "Mid 2006"


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## jpd (Aug 21, 2004)

Of course we're coming up to the next big Mac event, which is a great time make announcements and tie into the Apple-generated publicity. The Apple World Wide Developers Conference starts August 7, that could be when they'll announce the Intel desktop machines, and they'll definitely show an early version of Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard" 
http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/index.html

So that's my guess as to when we'll see TTG for Mac, assuming there's not some major bug that they still need to fix.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

jpd said:


> Of course we're coming up to the next big Mac event, which is a great time make announcements and tie into the Apple-generated publicity. The Apple World Wide Developers Conference starts August 7, that could be when they'll announce the Intel desktop machines, and they'll definitely show an early version of Mac OS X 10.5 "Leopard"
> http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/index.html
> 
> So that's my guess as to when we'll see TTG for Mac, assuming there's not some major bug that they still need to fix.


Thanks,
I'll buy that, and it's within the window.
August it is,...but I hope they feel free to release it sooner.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

Now I'm waiting impatiently too. I kind of need a new notebook, and it's kind of between a Macbook Pro and Inspiron e1705. But I can't even watch my shows on the Macbook  (Not without rebooting to Windows).


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

Puppy76 said:


> Now I'm waiting impatiently too. I kind of need a new notebook, and it's kind of between a Macbook Pro and Inspiron e1705. But I can't even watch my shows on the Macbook  (Not without rebooting to Windows).


You don't have to reboot to windows - you could get Parallels Desktop http://www.parallels.com/ which allows you to start up Windows within an OS X Application. No reboot required!

This also doesn't prevent you from doing a reboot trick with BootCamp if you want.

Get the MacBook. That way you have all the glory of OS X, and can still run Windows if you need it. Best of both worlds ;-}


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

TydalForce said:


> You don't have to reboot to windows - you could get Parallels Desktop http://www.parallels.com/ which allows you to start up Windows within an OS X Application. No reboot required!
> 
> This also doesn't prevent you from doing a reboot trick with BootCamp if you want.
> 
> Get the MacBook. That way you have all the glory of OS X, and can still run Windows if you need it. Best of both worlds ;-}


I did exactly that recently. My company got me a 17" Macbook Pro 60 day demo to test.
Installed parallels, works great! Unfortunatley I have to give it back. Damn!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

TiVo just released v2.3 which includes - for $25 - automatic conversion for TiVo files on iPods, Treo's, PSPs, etc.

Of course it's Windows-only.

Thanks again, TiVo - for a big, fat, nothing!


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## jpkcfk (Aug 30, 2005)

I have read with interest, although I have stayed out of it, all the post relating to TiVo Desktop for Mac. I too have a Mac and have been awaiting a version of TiVo Desktop with all the features that Windows users enjoy. In addition to my iMac G5 I have a 30GB iPod with Video.
This is truly a slap in the face.
"I have been TiVo-ed" is now a phrase we use in our house frequently - and not in a good way. Pay for multi-room viewing - two months later it is free. "I was TiVo-ed" Tivo Desktop comes out with all these great features - oh sorry Mac's need not apply. "Tivo-ed again."
While this post serves no real purpose other than to vent, I hope TiVo is listening.
I was a TiVo adopter early on. Started with Series 1, we now have three Series 2 TiVo's and a Humax DVD Burner.
Please reward this loyalty TiVo!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I'm pretty sure that the Mac and Windows versions of TiVo Desktop are developed by different teams. So releasing 2.3 for Windows probably has no bearing on the Mac version or it's time frame.

Dan


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

jpkcfk said:


> This is truly a slap in the face.


They have to acknowledge our existence before they slap us


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Dan203 said:


> I'm pretty sure that the Mac and Windows versions of TiVo Desktop are developed by different teams. So releasing 2.3 for Windows probably has no bearing on the Mac version or it's time frame.
> 
> Dan


Sure they have bearing on one another.

They could have devoted more resources to the Mac project. They didn't.

If they didn't have enough resources they could have taken some from the Windows project. (or used money used on the Windows project) They chose not to.

Their priority has been the Windows version.

The Mac version has never and will never be any sort of priority to TiVo.

They've proved this by their actions time and time again.

My boyfriend is getting an Adelphia HD DVR on Saturday. I wanted him to get a TiVo but the price and HD feature made the cable route the way to go.

After this, I don't even feel bad.

:down: :down: :down:


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> My boyfriend is getting an Adelphia HD DVR on Saturday. I wanted him to get a TiVo but the price and HD feature made the cable route the way to go.


How good is their Mac support?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

SullyND said:


> How good is their Mac support?


On par with TiVo's. 

(actually, that DVR will be in a Windows household so Mac support isn't an issue there)


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

jpkcfk said:


> I have read with interest, although I have stayed out of it, all the post relating to TiVo Desktop for Mac. I too have a Mac and have been awaiting a version of TiVo Desktop with all the features that Windows users enjoy. In addition to my iMac G5 I have a 30GB iPod with Video.
> This is truly a slap in the face.
> "I have been TiVo-ed" is now a phrase we use in our house frequently - and not in a good way. Pay for multi-room viewing - two months later it is free. "I was TiVo-ed" Tivo Desktop comes out with all these great features - oh sorry Mac's need not apply. "Tivo-ed again."
> While this post serves no real purpose other than to vent, I hope TiVo is listening.
> ...


I like that. "TiVo-ed". 
With 2 meanings, if you "TiVo-ed" a show you've recorded a show. 
If you yourself have been "TiVo-ed", then you've been ignored or screwed over by the company.

Has anyone seen the AOL piece on msnbc with the guy trying to cancel his account, and the customer support rep won't let him. It's a PR disaster for AOL. 
TiVo is one step away from this, and should learn from it!

It would be shame if someone did a piece on this 1 1/2 yr fiasco, wouldn't it.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

Ok, so I guess it's not June!
Don't make me have to start a friggin July thread.

Hey! but wait, I got the KID Zone service update last night. Whoo, Whoo.
Even though I have 3 kids of varying ages I really don't care.
Amazing, this enhanced service feature got done and added but, Mac TTG is vaporware.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

What I fear is that they will just release some version that is windows binary compatible for Intel-Macs and say that is their effort, ignoring the millions of G4 based Macs out there.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

I don't think we'll see an Intel-only solution. Apple has done a great deal of "Universal Binary" pushing, so that PPC Mac users aren't left in the dust. Given that there are STILL PPC Macs being sold by Apple, going Intel-only would just be dumb. 

Plus, they probably got hit with the same thing everyone else did - by Apple's original plan, the Intel Macs would start shipping around, uh, now. They hit the market a good 6 months early, taking everyone by surprise. Its really quite impressive that this many Universal Binary applications made their way out already. 

So, in summary, I'm impressed that TiVo Desktop is UB already, and I wouldn't be surprised if the quick-release of Intel Macs has created a TTG delay


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ccooperev said:


> What I fear is that they will just release some version that is windows binary compatible for Intel-Macs and say that is their effort, ignoring the millions of G4 based Macs out there.


There are lots of G5 Macs that are NOT Intel-based (I have one of them )


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> There are lots of G5 Macs that are NOT Intel-based (I have one of them )


In fact, one could say that _none_ of the G5 Macs are Intel-based...


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## Rosincrans (May 4, 2006)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> In fact, one could say that _none_ of the G5 Macs are Intel-based...


LOL. It is hard not to think of the Intel ones as G5's. They look just like mine.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

Rosincrans said:


> LOL. It is hard not to think of the Intel ones as G5's. They look just like mine.


Supposedly the new Mac Pro Intel towers will have a different looking enclosure.
http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0606macpro.html


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## maggard (Jan 9, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> I'm pretty sure that the Mac and Windows versions of TiVo Desktop are developed by *different teams*.


"Teams"! Heh - dollars to donuts that the Mac development "team" is a lone coder in a locked filing cabinet, in a dis-used lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the leopard.'

Seriously, Tivo was adverting for a developer for months (months - 10 miles from Apple HQ and they couldn't find a decent developer? Don't try and claim they were looking very hard). With one now presumably in place it's still taking how long?

No, it's all a BS act for going on 2 years now, "mid-summer" = "12th of whenever" _aka_ "no clue, don't care, yeah whatever someday". Support MacOS, don't support MacOS, it's their business plan, I just wish they'd actually tell some truth.

Frankly while I love my Tivo I have absolutely no respect for Tivo Corporation; and it's pretty apparent they have none for their customers.


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## timg (May 12, 2004)

maggard said:


> "Teams"! Heh - dollars to donuts that the Mac development "team" is a lone coder in a locked filing cabinet, in a dis-used lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the leopard.'


You forgot to mention that his "development" system is an 8500 with a G3 upgrade card and 96MB of memory...


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## homertime (Mar 25, 2006)

The continuous lack of support is pathetic for the price we pay.


As mentioned above, i'd agree that adding iPod and PSP support for a fee is a slap in the face, or another way that we mac users are "Tivo-ed"

How about when I was Tivo-ed when I tried signing up for unlimited tivo the day I got it and they said that they just cancelled it the day prior - with the promo STILL being on the tivo website.


Tivo also has this knack for replying to "nice" suggestions, and not replying to ones that are brutally honest and show some anger with their lack of support.

I wish I took advantage of the 30 day return policy, but then again with my experience with the "unlimited" they would probably tell me that offer isn't available any more either...


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## chiefted (Dec 20, 2002)

Actually I am coming really close to dumping my Tivos...let them be Tivo-ed for a change. 

I picked up EyeTv by El Gato and a extra satellite box and so far been pretty happy with that set up (using my iMac G5, the satellite box, and EyeTv). Not all the bells and whistles of Tivo but I can at least "feed my iPod" for free.

That should keep me happy till Apple comes out with their "Tivo killer"


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

What I hate is Tivo and Apple seem like such a nice fit, and Apple dosen't have anything competing with Tivo right now (unlike Microsoft).

For me, Tivo2Go is a basic thing. Wouldn't have bought my first one if it hadn't been coming

I do love my Tivo though.


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## megazone (Mar 3, 2002)

Puppy76 said:


> What I hate is Tivo and Apple seem like such a nice fit, and Apple dosen't have anything competing with Tivo right now (unlike Microsoft).


Yet Apple hasn't been willing to work with TiVo, while Microsoft has. Bill Gates even talked about TiVo at his CES2005 keynote.

Apple is insular.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

That's idiotic


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## noelgross (Dec 27, 2000)

Just joining the pitty party. My PowerBook desperately wants to make sweet love to my TiVo.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

noelgross said:


> Just joining the pitty party. My PowerBook desperately wants to make sweet love to my TiVo.


get a room you two!


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## Unix_Beard (Dec 22, 2003)

So is Tivo waiting for WWDC or something? Geesh.


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## AnteL0pe (Oct 1, 2004)

I got tired of waiting. I just got a new HD TV, a bunch of new components and dumped the TiVo. The DVR from Comcast has more features im interested in, its free, i can transfer shows off onto my mac with no drm, it records in HD 5.1, I can record 2 shows at once, etc etc. Really the only thing TiVo has on this unit is a better interface, and I can live with that. This box can do so much more than my TiVo ever could its kinda embarrassing.

I'll be happy to purchase a TiVo that can do all the things listed above when it finally comes out, but man are they slow on Mac support.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

To be fair... the Comcast DVR is not "free". You do pay a monthly fee to rent the box, do you not?

And how are you pulling content off? Did you use a hack? Or do you have the box with the Firewire port enabled? That is an unsupported feature that they could turn off at any time. (I'm suprised a media company like Comcast hasn't already)


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## AnteL0pe (Oct 1, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> To be fair... the Comcast DVR is not "free". You do pay a monthly fee to rent the box, do you not?


Yes $10/mo which is less than TiVo was charging me.



> And how are you pulling content off? Did you use a hack? Or do you have the box with the Firewire port enabled? That is an unsupported feature that they could turn off at any time. (I'm suprised a media company like Comcast hasn't already)


I use the FireWire port. They could turn it off, but they have no need to. I can even up the size of this box because it has an external SATA input for another drive. TiVo could learn a thing or two from Scientific Atlanta.

Seriously, if I could throw the TiVo interface on this box and add an ethernet port i'd be in heaven.


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## TydalForce (Feb 9, 2006)

Unix_Beard said:


> So is Tivo waiting for WWDC or something? Geesh.


Actually, WWDC does fall into "Mid-2006" and would be a great time to make a Mac-related announcement.... good place to do it too.

August 7-11 for anyone who wants to know.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

AnteL0pe said:


> I use the FireWire port. They could turn it off, but they have no need to.


As soon as a major media company asks them to, they will.

I honestly can't believe they've left the Firewire port (which has no other official purpose and is turned off by other companies - Adelphia, for one) turned on. They're just asking for trouble.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they have kept it open... but just because it's that way now, it may not be forever.


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## AnteL0pe (Oct 1, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> As soon as a major media company asks them to, they will.
> 
> I honestly can't believe they've left the Firewire port (which has no other official purpose and is turned off by other companies - Adelphia, for one) turned on. They're just asking for trouble.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they have kept it open... but just because it's that way now, it may not be forever.


Well its working now, and with that and everything else it can do that my TiVo cant, I'm quite happy with this new box. I was even happier to tell TiVo to piss off and that I was leaving because their boxes are under-equipped and because their Mac support has been terrible.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

I'd be happy with something like this setup - although it can get pricey.

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=shop_onlineshopus

+

http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetv500

=

http://media-c01m01.libsyn.com/a3ed...sts/donmc/SCO0059-Elgato-sdd34-960x600-ED.mov


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## ccoulson (May 24, 2003)

Do the Moto HD DVR boxes have an open Firewire port? Any way to transfer content to a Mac from them?

I also understand that Comcast will provide the Tivo software (eventually) for the Motos but not for the SA's.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Actually, my memory recalled that it was Moto boxes, not SA, that had the firewire enabled so Mac users could get content but I didn't say anything. See:

http://www.addict3d.org/index.php?page=viewarticle&type=security&ID=2847

Antelope - can you confirm your STB manufacturer?

On the issue of Comcast/TiVo... yes, I think I've also heard they'll only support Moto boxes but one would assume that if you live in a Comcast territory that currently uses SA boxes that they'll just start offering Moto boxes for customers who want TiVo. Otherwise, they wouldn't have a way to deploy TiVo to ALL of their customers (assuming they want to do so).


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## AnteL0pe (Oct 1, 2004)

Mine is the Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8300HD and i have pulled video via one of the 2 firewire ports. I'm with comcast in N. VA


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Interesting, thanks.

I know the firewire is disabled on that same box in Adelphia country so YMMV.


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## gonzotek (Sep 24, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> As soon as a major media company asks them to, they will.
> 
> I honestly can't believe they've left the Firewire port (which has no other official purpose and is turned off by other companies - Adelphia, for one) turned on. They're just asking for trouble.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm glad they have kept it open... but just because it's that way now, it may not be forever.


Actually, Adelphia is in the wrong if that is their policy. The FCC has mandated that a customer can request and recieve a STB with working 1394(Firewire) ports.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/octqtr/pdf/47cfr76.640.pdf


> Effective April 1, 2004, upon request of a customer, replace any leased high definition set-top box, which does not include a functional IEEE 1394 interface, with one that includes a functional IEEE 1394 interface or upgrade the customers set-top box by download or other means to ensure that the IEEE 1394 interface is functional.


AFAIK, this is correct and currently in effect.

BTW, the extraction process works on Windows and Linux as well, with the right software and setup.
http://replayguide.sourceforge.net/dct6412/
http://www.linux1394.org/


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## AnteL0pe (Oct 1, 2004)

gonzotek said:


> Actually, Adelphia is in the wrong if that is their policy. The FCC has mandated that a customer can request and recieve a STB with working 1394(Firewire) ports.


Woo Hoo, thanks for the info!


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

FireWire is mandatory, but the signal that comes off of it may not be playable, depending on the channel. The data may be 5C encrypted (and likely is, from premium channels) and not playable on the Mac. This doesn't affect the "intended" users (DVHS decks and hypothetical DVRs that are 5C aware.) 

This was the case the last time I connected my PowerBook to my Comcast DVR, for any channel that wasn't broadcast in the clear.


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## AnteL0pe (Oct 1, 2004)

BTW, just a little bit of info. When i called TiVo to let them know that I wanted to cancel they first offered me 2 free months of service (i was paying monthly) and when i declined that they offered me the TiVo service for $6.95/mo for the life of the unit.

If anyone is on the fence about dropping their account you may want to see what deals they'll give you.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> Why not? It's a range -- "Early 2006" would be Jan 1-Apr 30, "Mid 2006" would be May 1-Aug 31, and "Late 2006" would be Sept 1-Dec 31, wouldn't it?


Ok, so back tracking a bit. Using the time frames Dennis laid out. 
"Mid 2006 officially ends at Midnight August 31st!"

I won't hold my breath.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

Maybe TiVo Pony meant Mid Decade. He's probably kicking himself for saying anything at all.
I think they're real problem now is "What the hell do you show at CES in Jan '07 !" It's only 3 months away. The same stuff?, then not deliver it? It's like going to a Car Show, where you see Concept Cars that are never put into production.


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## tonyf3 (Oct 12, 2003)

TiVo finally releases TTG for Mac OS XI in 2011. Oh wait TiVo went out of business in 2008 due to nimble but crushing competition from Apple Computer. Never mind.


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## Puppy76 (Oct 7, 2004)

I would buy a Series 3 right now with that lifetime transfer-if it had full Tivo 2 Go support (for OS X and Windows).


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## Lon (Jan 8, 2005)

> I would buy a Series 3 right now with that lifetime transfer-if it had full Tivo 2 Go support (for OS X and Windows).


this applies to me, as well, except I am waiting only for OS X support (no Windows in our home, yet we can see quite clearly


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