# Zoom button has no effect on HD programs



## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

I have a 16X9 set and I like to watch Movies in Letterbox format. When I playback a program in HD, the zoom button won't change the aspect ratio like it does for an SD signal.

Is there some setting that I'm not aware of to change the aspect of an HD picture?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

You can't zoom HD content because there is nothing to zoom. The aspect ratio is the same as your tv. The reason why zoom works on non-HD content is because the original aspect ratio of the program is different than your television.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

You can zoom HD content if you set the TiVo to output at 480 (or use the composite output.)


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

RGM1138 said:


> I have a 16X9 set and I like to watch Movies in Letterbox format. When I playback a program in HD, the zoom button won't change the aspect ratio like it does for an SD signal.
> 
> Is there some setting that I'm not aware of to change the aspect of an HD picture?


HD should normally "fill" a 16 X 9 screen depending on some of your settings. In video settings aspect ratio set to 16 X 9 is customary and correction I believe to FULL. You might experiment with PANEL in the aspect ratio correction field. I believe that 1080i is the choice of most for output format.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

TiVos won't let you zoom HD content. I remember my old TWC DVR would let me zoom in on HD content, and I used to do it in certain circumstances. Even though most programming content is now filmed in 16x9, some content still seems to be shot so that there isn't very much important content outside of the 4x3 area. MSNBC is one of the worst for doing this. They always have useless banners at the top and bottom and unused space on the sides. I would always zoom in on 16x9 content when watching MSNBC to get rid of the unused area and have a larger image on my relatively small 32" TV. I guess TiVo thinks this is an option people don't want, but I would kind of like to have that ability back.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Its actually a digital feature, not a HD thing. If you need to zoom in, try your TV remote.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> TiVos won't let you zoom HD content. I remember my old TWC DVR would let me zoom in on HD content, and I used to do it in certain circumstances. Even though most programming content is now filmed in 16x9, some content still seems to be shot so that there isn't very much important content outside of the 4x3 area. MSNBC is one of the worst for doing this. They always have useless banners at the top and bottom and unused space on the sides. I would always zoom in on 16x9 content when watching MSNBC to get rid of the unused area and have a larger image on my relatively small 32" TV. I guess TiVo thinks this is an option people don't want, but I would kind of like to have that ability back.


The Zoom button works on HD content when using an SD resolution for output. But then the zoom won't work on SD content. When the output is set for an HD resolution then zoom will work on SD content but won't work on HD content.

People can always run their content through an external scaler if they want more control. I can zoom any content running through my DVD DUO scaler/video processor if I wanted to. I can apply positive or negative overscan to any content and zoom in or zoom out.


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

Thanks for all of the replies.

I hadn't considered a video proc, but it would be an elegant, if somewhat expensive, solution. I looked up the DVDO specs and noticed that it includes inputs for legacy equipment, like my 480P DVD recorder. Something to think about.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Arcady said:


> You can zoom HD content if you set the TiVo to output at 480 (or use the composite output.)


Also if you set the TV aspect to 4:3 it has the oposite effect. It will letterbox 16:9, zoom it to pan & scan, to squish it to fit 4:3.


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

RGM1138 said:


> I have a 16X9 set and I like to watch Movies in Letterbox format. When I playback a program in HD, the zoom button won't change the aspect ratio like it does for an SD signal.
> 
> Is there some setting that I'm not aware of to change the aspect of an HD picture?


When I watch letterbox content, I will use the Zoom Function of my TV. This fills the height, and crops the edges of the widescreen content. While the picture is cropped, it does not distort the image by trying to "fit" and preserve the widescreen content. Leave your TiVo settings alone and let the TV do the work.

The disadvantage to this is that the TiVo progress bar is somewhat obscured. A small price to pay to use the whole TV viewing area, IMO.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

bantar said:


> When I watch letterbox content, I will use the Zoom Function of my TV. This fills the height, and crops the edges of the widescreen content. While the picture is cropped, it does not distort the image by trying to "fit" and preserve the widescreen content. Leave your TiVo settings alone and let the TV do the work.
> 
> The disadvantage to this is that the TiVo progress bar is somewhat obscured. A small price to pay to use the whole TV viewing area, IMO.


Cropping part of the image is complete distortion. You are missing part of the program. That sounds like the worst advice and the worst idea on how to watch widescreen content.

Do you also have a shelf full of pan & scan movies?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Arcady said:


> Cropping part of the image is complete distortion. You are missing part of the program. That sounds like the worst advice and the worst idea on how to watch widescreen content. Do you also have a shelf full of pan & scan movies?


+1


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

Arcady said:


> Cropping part of the image is complete distortion. You are missing part of the program. That sounds like the worst advice and the worst idea on how to watch widescreen content.
> 
> Do you also have a shelf full of pan & scan movies?


Do you have a better suggestion for adapting letterbox to the 16:9 format? I noticed that your contribution was to set the output to 480, then zoom? You really find this better?

You either watch the program as-is, or stretch, crunch or crop. Outside of actual theater, the cinematic widescreen is not quite as dramatic on a TV set. Therefore, my personal preference is to crop. While I might not be as smart as you, *I've noticed a recent trend in movies where the action appears to take place in the center portion of the display. As a result of this oddity, I don't think I missed any of the plot lines by cropping.*

Since the OP asked about zooming, I would hazard to guess he does not want to watch the letterbox format. I am not recommending anyone to make the same personal choice that I've made, but I am explaining one of these choices for consideration.

Movie purists should NOT ALTER the content that the director set forth.

Just yesterday, I watched the Kings of Summer in cropped mode. I missed the edges of the forestry scenes due to the cropping. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a Brazilian lumberjack was on the far right deforesting the place faster than the Amazon rainforest and I didn't catch it. It's OK. My movie purist membership card was revoked long ago. IIRC, it was due to watching a movie that said: "This film has been modified from its original version. It has been formatted to fit this screen."


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Some digital stations here produce a widescreen image that is shrunk overall. It's digital, but i would zoom on that if I could.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

jrtroo said:


> Some digital stations here produce a widescreen image that is shrunk overall. It's digital, but i would zoom on that if I could.


I've rarely (and not recently) come across situations where the HD channel is a pillarbox around the SD letterbox of the movie 

Ok, it's great that you were showing the letterbox version on your 4:3 SD feed; kudos for not playing pan-and-scan games. But throwing that same letterbox into a widescreen HD format, instead of zooming in so it best matches the screen ratio is just dumb!
(I can better understand not having an HD source to play in full HD widescreen)

In that braindead situation I'd have appreciated the ability to zoom in on the HD channel. (Well actually I did zoom in. I just had to find, and then find batteries for, my TV remote)


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

bantar said:


> Do you have a better suggestion for adapting letterbox to the 16:9 format? I noticed that your contribution was to set the output to 480, then zoom? You really find this better?


If the program is letterboxed SD content, it will end up windowboxed on an HD channel or recording. That is, there are bars on the sides and on the top and bottom. Of course you should zoom this content, so that it fills the screen, doesn't crop anything, and maintains the correct aspect ratio. You cannot zoom a letterboxed SD image that was recorded on an HD channel, so the only way to make it look right is to switch the TiVo to SD mode and zoom it, or leave it alone and pretend your 50 inch TV is really a 25 inch TV.

The point is, you want to preserve the aspect ratio of the original movie. If you own a 16x9 TV, then you will have the following type of scenarios:

1. 1.85:1 or 16x9 content: Fills screen
2. 2.35:1 or ultra-panavision style: Small black bars at top and bottom
3. 1.33:1 or 4x3 content: Black bars at left and right of screen
4. 1.85:1 or 2:35:1 content from SD source: Same as above but zoom needed
5. 1.33:1 or 4x3 distorted content*: No fix available

This doesn't even cover every possibility, such as HBO cropping the edges off 2.35:1 movies so they "fill the screen." :down:

*Distorted content is 4x3 content where the channel decided to pan&scan, zoom in, stretch the edges, hard-code windowboxing, etc. BBC America ruins Star Trek TNG with a zoom in to fill more screen. Cartoon Network ruins King of the Hill by stretching it. They need to leave it alone and let the viewer decide if he wants it to look ugly.

If your only goal is to make the screen fill with an image, and you want to turn circles into ovals, or cut off people's heads, go ahead. I'm not watching TV at your house. Do what you want. But it isn't what the director intended you to see, and you are not allowed to review any movie watched that way.


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

Arcady said:


> If your only goal is to make the screen fill with an image, and you want to turn circles into ovals, or cut off people's heads, go ahead. I'm not watching TV at your house. Do what you want. But it isn't what the director intended you to see, and you are not allowed to review any movie watched that way.


You are just being a blowhard. At least you've impressed us all with your fantastic knowledge of aspect ratios, (which I've never heard of until just today). Do you feel better about yourself now that you've done this? I sure hope so. I'll bet that you also yell at driver's speeding past you by when they are doing 55 MPH in a 50 MPH zone.

Yet, what of real value have you contributed to this thread? The OP is clearly mashing the zoom button and expecting a change.



Arcady said:


> The point is, you want to preserve the aspect ratio of the original movie.


I agree with you on this point - with the exception that I won't preserve all of the image (as I will zoom any 2.35:1 content). With the premise that you ARE going to change the format of the video content, there are numerous ways to effect change. IMO, zoom and the resultant cropping is the least picture-damaging method of filling the screen as it doesn't lead to "circles into ovals" types of distortion.

You can tell the OP not to mash that zoom button as it's naughty. Or offer up a better answer. Or don't reply at all if you have nothing useful to contribute.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

bantar said:


> You are just being a blowhard.
> 
> <blah blah blah>
> 
> You can tell the OP not to mash that zoom button as it's naughty. Or offer up a better answer. Or don't reply at all if you have nothing useful to contribute.


I already gave a solution, to switch to 480 and use zoom. Can you read?

What have you contributed to the thread?


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

Arcady said:


> I already gave a solution, to switch to 480 and use zoom. Can you read?


I just tried this out. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding your procedure.

To force the TiVo to output 480p format, I had to disable 1080i and 1080p as output choices. To remove the 1080 output formats, I had to switch from HD Menus to SD Menus. Is there a simpler way to force this resolution change? This would be a bit cumbersome for regular use.

Confirmed that I was getting 480p content at the TV set. Then cycled thru the zoom options on the TV and the zoom options on the Tivo. With the picture in Zoom Mode done by the TV, the image is distorted (stretched vertically), which is not desirable. The Tivo zoom choices slightly changed the picture, but in effect did not alter the overall size. As well, I did not care for the diminished quality of this image before attempting to zoom.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

At 480P output you are outputting an SD resolution for content that is in HD. It is going to look even worse this way when zooming in since you only have fraction of the resolution it should be.


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## Arcady (Oct 14, 2004)

I didn't say it would look good. I said that is the only way to get windowboxed content recorded from an HD channel to fill the screen and retain the correct aspect ratio. It also depends on what the broadcaster actually did to the picture.

When I end up with a windowboxed recording, my solution is usually to delete it and find a better source. I will rarely put up with cropped or windowboxed or unmasked video, unless that is the only source available. I have around 20 movies on DVD and LaserDisc that are fullscreen or worse, but they are the last release or only release of the film.

If you don't care about viewing it the way I do, that's fine with me. It doesn't hurt me if you want to watch things a certain way. My wife will watch windowboxed TV shows without zooming, even if available, because it looks blocky to her. I will sometimes watch unzoomed on our large TV, but I will zoom on the tiny TV in the back room where you can't see the flaws as easily.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Arcady said:


> I didn't say it would look good. I said that is the only way to get windowboxed content recorded from an HD channel to fill the screen and retain the correct aspect ratio. It also depends on what the broadcaster actually did to the picture.
> 
> When I end up with a windowboxed recording, my solution is usually to delete it and find a better source. I will rarely put up with cropped or windowboxed or unmasked video, unless that is the only source available. I have around 20 movies on DVD and LaserDisc that are fullscreen or worse, but they are the last release or only release of the film.
> 
> If you don't care about viewing it the way I do, that's fine with me. It doesn't hurt me if you want to watch things a certain way. My wife will watch windowboxed TV shows without zooming, even if available, because it looks blocky to her. I will sometimes watch unzoomed on our large TV, but I will zoom on the tiny TV in the back room where you can't see the flaws as easily.


I don't have an issue in my main setup with my video processor. I can zoom in or out any HD or SD content I want. I used to have a video processor in my secondary setup but removed it for simplicity, so I have fewer options in that setup.

On another note "Stargate Fan", I watched an episode of Stargate SG1 on Sunday night. Boy I really miss that show. Do you recognize my XBL/PSN gamertag in my signature?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

bantar said:


> Do you have a better suggestion for adapting letterbox to the 16:9 format?


Yes, the suggestion is to set your Tivo to "Panel", and watch everything at the ratio it was intended to be.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

bantar said:


> Do you have a better suggestion for adapting letterbox to the 16:9 format? I noticed that your contribution was to set the output to 480, then zoom? You really find this better?
> 
> You either watch the program as-is, or stretch, crunch or crop. Outside of actual theater, the cinematic widescreen is not quite as dramatic on a TV set. Therefore, my personal preference is to crop. While I might not be as smart as you, *I've noticed a recent trend in movies where the action appears to take place in the center portion of the display. As a result of this oddity, I don't think I missed any of the plot lines by cropping.*
> 
> ...


I'm generally of the opinion that people should do what makes them happy, but when I see someone say "who cares if I don't see part of the movie? I'll survive" it's like they just held up a flag that says "WARNING! I am likely to have the dumbest opinions possible about everything! Approach with caution!"


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Grakthis said:


> I'm generally of the opinion that people should do what makes them happy, but when I see someone say "who cares if I don't see part of the movie? I'll survive" it's like they just held up a flag that says "WARNING! I am likely to have the dumbest opinions possible about everything! Approach with caution!"


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

He might be a great guy. No personal judgments there. I just wouldn't take his opinion about anything being "good" or "bad" seriously after that post. I don't understand how someone can construct a work of entertainment and you only view a clipped version of it and go "good enough." I'm not saying you need to watch it in it's full absolute glory or it doesn't count, but for ****s sake, you should definitely want to see the actual full picture if it's an option. Deliberately cutting off part of the picture is... I don't even have an analogy for it. It's so baffling.

It's like putting ketchup on a steak.


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

Grakthis said:


> He might be a great guy. No personal judgments there. I just wouldn't take his opinion about anything being "good" or "bad" seriously after that post. I don't understand how someone can construct a work of entertainment and you only view a clipped version of it and go "good enough." I'm not saying you need to watch it in it's full absolute glory or it doesn't count, but for ****s sake, you should definitely want to see the actual full picture if it's an option. Deliberately cutting off part of the picture is... I don't even have an analogy for it. It's so baffling.
> 
> It's like putting ketchup on a steak.


LOL This holier-than-thou attitude of you net-nannies is downright laughable.  I'm getting more entertainment here than I do from all of the edges that I've previously cropped off combined. The way you clowns are carrying on, it stands to reason that all of the TV manufacturers would have caught on by now and ceased putting Format (zoom) buttons on their products (lest someone uses them). Heaven forbid that someone alters the directors product. For some strange reason, I've got a zoom button on my top-of-the-line VT plasma and I can get ketchup at many of the finer steak houses.

But, who knows, maybe this heavy dose of shame that has been heaped upon me is just what it will take for me to walk the straight and narrow. I'll start out slowly by putting some white out on my zoom button so that I forget that it's there. And instead of ketchup, I'll hold my pinkie out when I order A1 steak sauce. Can I get an "*AMEN Brother!*"?

But in all seriousness, if I wanted "to watch it in its full absolute glory", then it's best seen at the theater. As large as my TV is at home, it offers no cinematic effect compared to the big screen. Both 3D and 2.35:1 widescreen are best viewed on the big screen.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bantar said:


> ............, I've got a zoom button on my top-of-the-line VT plasma and I can get ketchup at many of the finer steak houses.


I don't know, but I believe that's for the steak fries they serve. 



bantar said:


> .......But in all seriousness, if I wanted "to watch it in its full absolute glory", then it's best seen at the theater. As large as my TV is at home, it offers no cinematic effect compared to the big screen. Both 3D and 2.35:1 widescreen are best viewed on the big screen.


Hey, since you're going there, may as well go to the IMAX version right?


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Hey, since you're going there, may as well go to the IMAX version right?


As a newly reformed movie purist, I would only go see the IMAX version if it was created by the director. No more of the "This film has been modified from its original version" for me.

However, I do prefer the IMAX theaters that let me have the FF button should the action turn cinematic and dull.

Too soon???


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bantar said:


> As a newly reformed movie purist, I would only go see the IMAX version if it was created by the director. No more of the "This film has been modified from its original version" for me. However, I do prefer the IMAX theaters that let me have the FF button should the action turn cinematic and dull. Too soon???


Nah, I'm pickin' up what yer puttin' down, Holmes!


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bantar said:


> And instead of ketchup, I'll hold my pinkie out when I order A1 steak sauce. Can I get an "*AMEN Brother!*"?


A1?!? Steak should be eaten in it's pure state untainted with ketchup or sauce! 

I also like to watch my movies in the original aspect ratio as well. 

Scott


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> A1?!? Steak should be eaten in it's pure state untainted with ketchup or sauce!  I also like to watch my movies in the original aspect ratio as well.  Scott


So you go to the butcher right after he carves out your steak, you bring it home and throw it right on the grill? No marinade, no salt and pepper, no nuttin'? Does the smokey charcoal or mesquite flavor count? How far do we go with this? It's madness!

OK, back on topic........

What totally chaps my hide is when absolutely NO combination of TiVo's (or any source for that matter) zoom/aspect ratio options and the display's options can get it zoomed in correctly or the proper aspect ratio after spending 20 minutes fiddling with all the remotes and your family sitting there screaming......"Come on dad, geez, we don't care! It doesn't matter"! "No, you don't get it. I HAVE to get this right.....it's my Moby Dick damnit!"

Definitely agree with prior posters here that a video processor is the shnizzle for all these idiosyncrasies.


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

HerronScott said:


> A1?!? Steak should be eaten in it's pure state untainted with ketchup or sauce!
> 
> I also like to watch my movies in the original aspect ratio as well.
> 
> Scott


Yay! We made it to 2 pages. Actually, I like my steak done up right with no sauces, but if I knew it would upset one of my nannies here, A1 would taste so sweet!  We live in the land of the free, but the nanny-statists really don't like it.

While visiting someones house a few months back, I noticed that his brand new LCD TV was set to Vivid mode with garish colors. I explained the benefits of using a different mode with truer colors, but did so in a respectful manner that was neither condescending nor demanding. I failed to convince him of the value of the change and left with no hard feelings. His choice doesn't hurt me and frankly it doesn't hurt him. Maybe he tried the other modes and liked Vivid the best. When he is watching his letterbox movie in the original aspect ratio, is he "watching it in its full absolute glory"???

And at a different house, they had an LED-LCD set with the typical washed out blacks. Could hardly make out the detail in the dark scenes of The Games of Thrones. The aspect ratio was normal, but I couldn't see the the "full absolute glory". I politely remained silent about the picture quality. Should I have chided them for their poor choice in TV selection?

While this discussion could have been civil; at least it was fun and we got to see the "true colors" of the contributors.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

bantar said:


> While visiting someones house a few months back, I noticed that his brand new LCD TV was set to Vivid mode with garish colors. I explained the benefits of using a different mode with truer colors, but did so in a respectful manner that was neither condescending nor demanding. I failed to convince him of the value of the change and left with no hard feelings. His choice doesn't hurt me and frankly it doesn't hurt him. Maybe he tried the other modes and liked Vivid the best.


Some people prefer the colors oversaturated on their TV. I'm actually one of those people. I will note that I am also colorblind, so how I see colors is different from the average person. Perhaps your friend is colorblind too and sees colors differently than you do.

This brings up an interesting philosophical question. Does everyone see colors the exact same way? I'm not talking about colorblind vs normal vision, as that is clearly different, but does everyone with "normal" color vision perceive colors the exact same way? There is really no way to know for sure if the color you see as "blue" is the same as someone elses "blue". Technically, all perception of color is just an illusion anyway. Your brain tells you that certain frequencies of the electromagnetic spectrum are certain colors, but there is no underlying law of nature that says a certain wavelength must be perceived by a brain as being "blue".

That is especially true on RGB screens. For example, an RGB screen can't actually produce the light wavelength for the color yellow. It produces the wavelength for green light and the wavelength for red light at the same time and tricks your brain into thinking it is actually the wavelength for yellow, but it's not.


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## bantar (Apr 27, 2004)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Some people prefer the colors oversaturated on their TV. I'm actually one of those people. I will note that I am also colorblind, so how I see colors is different from the average person. Perhaps your friend is colorblind too and sees colors differently than you do.
> 
> This brings up an interesting philosophical question. Does everyone see colors the exact same way? I'm not talking about colorblind vs normal vision, as that is clearly different, but does everyone with "normal" color vision perceive colors the exact same way? There is really no way to know for sure if the color you see as "blue" is the same as someone elses "blue". Technically, all perception of color is just an illusion anyway.
> 
> That is especially true on RGB screens. For example, an RGB screen can't actually produce the color yellow. It produces green light and blue light at the same time and tricks your brain into thinking it is yellow.


And I see no problem with this. Even if you are not color blind and I absolutely disagree with your color settings choices, there is no reason for me to hurl insults at you. It's a personal choice. If you are happy, then great.

Some non-technical folks don't know that settings can be tweaked (or how to best tweak them) providing a different viewing experience. So, under that pretense, I offered gentle guidance and then dropped it quickly. Case in point, he didn't know that there were different settings such as Vivid and Movie.

To address the color comment, I would offer that the colors seen on the screen should closely mimic what you see in real life. Try to make each color be as true as possible. (I can't even comment on how this might differ for color-blindness as I just don't know). Make it match what you like best!


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

bantar said:


> LOL This holier-than-thou attitude of you net-nannies is downright laughable.  I'm getting more entertainment here than I do from all of the edges that I've previously cropped off combined. The way you clowns are carrying on, it stands to reason that all of the TV manufacturers would have caught on by now and ceased putting Format (zoom) buttons on their products (lest someone uses them). Heaven forbid that someone alters the directors product. For some strange reason, I've got a zoom button on my top-of-the-line VT plasma and I can get ketchup at many of the finer steak houses.
> 
> But, who knows, maybe this heavy dose of shame that has been heaped upon me is just what it will take for me to walk the straight and narrow. I'll start out slowly by putting some white out on my zoom button so that I forget that it's there. And instead of ketchup, I'll hold my pinkie out when I order A1 steak sauce. Can I get an "*AMEN Brother!*"?
> 
> But in all seriousness, if I wanted "to watch it in its full absolute glory", then it's best seen at the theater. As large as my TV is at home, it offers no cinematic effect compared to the big screen. Both 3D and 2.35:1 widescreen are best viewed on the big screen.


Product manufacturers put "idiot buttons" on their products all the time. Which is not a justification for pushing them.

I'm not here to shame you, i'm here to make sure other people don't emulate you. It's unlikely we can fix you. You're broken!


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> So you go to the butcher right after he carves out your steak, you bring it home and throw it right on the grill? No marinade, no salt and pepper, no nuttin'? Does the smokey charcoal or mesquite flavor count? How far do we go with this? It's madness!


Depends on the steak!

A T-bone or Porterhouse (or most strips) just need salt and pepper. The pepper wild mellow out on the grill, the salt enhances flavor. Done. That's because those steaks are already full of flavor and don't need any help.

But, say, a flank steak? Well, it needs some help. First, it's tough, so the acid in the marinade will help soften it up. And second, it's thin so it's prone to lose moisture. So the marinade + salt will actually plump up the steak to make it hold onto moisture better. And on top of those, the flank doesn't have as much flavor, so it's a good choice for adding flavor to it.

And then we start getting into the cheap stuff, which basically exists to hold marinade.

I'm not sure I'd ever want to add smoke to a steak? More than just the hint you get off a grill, which isn't very much. But sure, I'd allow a little wood smoke off the grill if it happened.

There's nothing wrong with A1. A1 is lovely. So is ketchup. I love both of those things... on chicken nuggets and french fries.


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

bantar said:


> Yay! We made it to 2 pages. Actually, I like my steak done up right with no sauces, but if I knew it would upset one of my nannies here, A1 would taste so sweet!  We live in the land of the free, but the nanny-statists really don't like it.


Every time you say "nanny-state".....

It's like someone is poking a stick in their own eye, and I have to sit here and watch it. It's pretty brutal.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Grakthis said:


> Depends on the steak!
> 
> A T-bone or Porterhouse (or most strips) just need salt and pepper. The pepper wild mellow out on the grill, the salt enhances flavor. Done. That's because those steaks are already full of flavor and don't need any help.
> 
> ...


Why thank you Emeril!


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bantar said:


> Yay! We made it to 2 pages. Actually, I like my steak done up right with no sauces, but if I knew it would upset one of my nannies here, A1 would taste so sweet!  We live in the land of the free, but the nanny-statists really don't like it.


You know I was joking right? 

Scott


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## Grakthis (Oct 4, 2006)

HarperVision said:


> Why thank you Emeril!


Emeril?!?!? Come on man, he makes complicated impractical NO food.

Bobby Flay, maybe Alton Brown. Certainly Christopher Kimbell, if you're really a food nerd.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Grakthis said:


> Emeril?!?!? Come on man, he makes complicated impractical NO food. Bobby Flay, maybe Alton Brown. Certainly Christopher Kimbell,* if you're really a food nerd*.


Well, I'm not. I just threw out the first name that popped into my head.


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## epstewart (Mar 1, 2003)

I'd like to see my TiVo with zoom enabled for HD content. Occasionally on my local HD PBS station, an episode of a series usually transmitted in 16:9 HD is shown windowboxed. It's a mistake by the station engineer. I usually try zooming in, only to be frustrated when I can't. If the TiVo would permit zooming, there would be no need for cumbersome workarounds or using the TV's zoom, which cuts off the TiVo's progress bar.


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