# Risky to purchase TiVo Mini via Ebay (used)?



## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

Hello,

I'm coming back to TiVo after straying to Dish for too long. 

I've seen TiVo Minis for ~$120 new, on Amazon, and for less on Ebay (~$50). 

I don't know enough about any pitfalls associated with buying them used.

Do they have ESN's or such, locking them to certain devices?
They don't have hard drives or anything moving that could go bad with time, do they?
Did earlier models (which might be for sale used) have problems that have been solved by newer production runs?

Thanks for bringing me up to speed!


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

I would ask for the TSN and ask Tivo if its got lifetime


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## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

Huh?

I thought TiVo mini's automatically came pre-activated with All-in plan at no additional cost...

Is this not the case? Someone in the know please set me straight!


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## BRiT wtfdotcom (Dec 17, 2015)

snedecor said:


> Huh?
> 
> I thought TiVo mini's automatically came pre-activated with All-in plan at no additional cost...
> 
> Is this not the case? Someone in the know please set me straight!


Depends on when the mini was originally purchased and activated. Older ones had monthly service charges or required a lifetime purchase. This is why the advice to ask for the TSN so you can check with Tivo what the real situation is.


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## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

Thanks, guys!

Did not know this. I'll have to modify my buying strategy...

Any other "gotchas" I'll need to know about?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

There have been two models: 62000 and 63000 (the current one). The remote on the 62000 is IR only. The 63000 model remote is RF by default although RF TiVo remotes also can function as IR remotes -- and need to in order to control TV on/off and volume.

Many posters here have been able to get free lifetime on mini's that were previously on monthly subscriptions. The previous owner must cancel their subscription. Then the new owner goes to the TiVo.com website, to their account, and activates it. This does NOT work if you try to talk to TiVo support via phone for the activation -- and they will not even admit such a procedure exists.

Hint, when trying to connect mini and TiVo box, force the TiVo box to connect several times. If the mini gets to a point where it says it can't see a host TiVo, power-cycle it (which apparently is the only way to get it to connect to TiVo).


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

dlfl said:


> There have been two models: 62000 and 63000 (the current one). The remote on the 62000 is IR only. The 63000 model remote is RF by default although RF TiVo remotes also can function as IR remotes -- and need to in order to control TV on/off and volume.
> 
> Many posters here have been able to get free lifetime on mini's that were previously on monthly subscriptions. The previous owner must cancel their subscription. Then the new owner goes to the TiVo.com website, to their account, and activates it. This does NOT work if you try to talk to TiVo support via phone for the activation -- and they will not even admit such a procedure exists.
> 
> Hint, when trying to connect mini and TiVo box, force the TiVo box to connect several times. If the mini gets to a point where it says it can't see a host TiVo, power-cycle it (which apparently is the only way to get it to connect to TiVo).


The model numbers are 92000 and 93000.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

Chris Gerhard said:


> The model numbers are 92000 and 93000.


Not fair -- I'm older than you!


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## Chris Gerhard (Apr 27, 2002)

dlfl said:


> Not fair -- I'm older than you!


Hard to imagine that is true.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

snedecor said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm coming back to TiVo after straying to Dish for too long.
> 
> ...


It's very risky without having the TSN to check on the Tivo site. Some of the Minis are cable company locked. So, you gotta be careful or you'll have a cheap paperweight.


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## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

Thanks, everyone!

Seems like I'm either coalescing to a new 93000, or a used one where I can obtain a TSN to check.

Any horror stories on vendors? Has anyone reading purchased a used Mini successfully in this manner?

Sorry for cluttering the forum, just trying to save a few bucks!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

You can keep an eye on woot.com as they've had sales on refurb minis on and off for a little while now for $69.99 each. I have one that's been working fine for a few weeks now.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

snedecor said:


> Thanks, everyone!
> 
> Seems like I'm either coalescing to a new 93000, or a used one where I can obtain a TSN to check.
> 
> ...


I have a new in box/unopened 92000 that has lifetime...haven't gotten around to putting up on eBay yet (I've had it for over a year now, and haven't used). PM if you'd like to make an offer.


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## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

dslunceford said:


> I have a new in box/unopened 92000 that has lifetime...haven't gotten around to putting up on eBay yet (I've had it for over a year now, and haven't used). PM if you'd like to make an offer.


Don't hold it for me, Steve. I ordered a 93000 new and will try it out on a second TV. If I decide to stay in the TiVo multiverse, I will need more mini's.

I'll contact you then. If it hasn't sold by then, we can talk.

Thanks for the offer!

Cheers!

Gayle


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

magnus said:


> It's very risky without having the TSN to check on the Tivo site. Some of the Minis are cable company locked. So, you gotta be careful or you'll have a cheap paperweight.


Hi,
This is not correct information. Ebay has a "buyer protection plan" which would cover the entire cost if the item is "not as listed". You can get a full refund under such circumstances either directly from Ebay or PayPal. This has been the practice and policy for several years now.


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## dslunceford (Oct 19, 2000)

snedecor said:


> Don't hold it for me, Steve. I ordered a 93000 new and will try it out on a second TV. If I decide to stay in the TiVo multiverse, I will need more mini's.
> 
> I'll contact you then. If it hasn't sold by then, we can talk.
> 
> ...


No worries. Got me to remember I had it and pulled it out to post up on eBay today....


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> This is not correct information. Ebay has a "buyer protection plan" which would cover the entire cost if the item is "not as listed". You can get a full refund under such circumstances either directly from Ebay or PayPal. This has been the practice and policy for several years now.


Dude, are you kidding with this? You'd rather have the hassle of this kinda crap? I guess maybe some people do. Not me though.

And it's absolutely the best way to go about it. Always ask for the TSN on these and plug it in on the Tivo website. If you get burned on it by eBay/Seller then it's your own fault because you should have checked it prior to purchase.


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## spaldingclan (Aug 22, 2012)

magnus said:


> Dude, are you kidding with this? You'd rather have the hassle of this kinda crap? I guess maybe some people do. Not me though.
> 
> And it's absolutely the best way to go about it. Always ask for the TSN on these and plug it in on the Tivo website. If you get burned on it by eBay/Seller then it's your own fault because you should have checked it prior to purchase.


Im with this guy...dealing with Paypal and Ebay on this is a nightmare...they are nothing like Amazon


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> This is not correct information. Ebay has a "buyer protection plan" which would cover the entire cost if the item is "not as listed". You can get a full refund under such circumstances either directly from Ebay or PayPal. This has been the practice and policy for several years now.





magnus said:


> Dude, are you kidding with this? You'd rather have the hassle of this kinda crap? I guess maybe some people do. Not me though.
> ...........





spaldingclan said:


> Im with this guy...dealing with Paypal and Ebay on this is a nightmare...they are nothing like Amazon


I assume you all have actually had experience with eBay's "Buyer Protection Plan", right? I've always been curious as to how it actually works. Could you give specific details to support your positive or negative opinions?


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

dlfl said:


> I assume you all have actually had experience with eBay's "Buyer Protection Plan", right? I've always been curious as to how it actually works. Could you give specific details to support your positive or negative opinions?


Hi,
I have had experience with the "buyer protection plan" on 3 or 4 occasions out of hundreds of Ebay purchases. It works fine but sometimes can take a couple of weeks to get your money back. Sometimes it is very quick if the seller is cooperative. In my opinion, it is generally no more of a issue than most product returns on average. 
The point is that there was, in fact, "incorrect and misleading" information posted by someone who was ignorant of the facts and directly stated you would be "stuck with a doorstop" or an otherwise useless item and more importantly a total loss of money.
I simply provided the correct information and now the ignorant get upset and try to change the argument and without acknowledging that they were mistaken want to say that the process is "too difficult" to get their money back and do so with absolutely no experience what-so-ever.
I did not correct anyone to insult them or demean them in any way. We all make mistakes and it might sting a bit when we are confronted with them, but the cleaver swallow the sting and learn from their mistakes.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> I have had experience with the "buyer protection plan" on 3 or 4 occasions out of hundreds of Ebay purchases. It works fine but sometimes can take a couple of weeks to get your money back. Sometimes it is very quick if the seller is cooperative. In my opinion, it is generally no more of a issue than most product returns on average.
> The point is that there was, in fact, "incorrect and misleading" information posted by someone who was ignorant of the facts and directly stated you would be "stuck with a doorstop" or an otherwise useless item and more importantly a total loss of money.
> I simply provided the correct information and now the ignorant get upset and try to change the argument and without acknowledging that they were mistaken want to say that the process is "too difficult" to get their money back and do so with absolutely no experience what-so-ever.
> I did not correct anyone to insult them or demean them in any way. We all make mistakes and it might sting a bit when we are confronted with them, but the cleaver swallow the sting and learn from their mistakes.


Dude, I'm not ignorant on this subject and what I said is correct but whatever think what you want. My information is factual... yours is not.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

fcfc2 said:


> Hi,
> I have had experience with the "buyer protection plan" on 3 or 4 occasions out of hundreds of Ebay purchases. It works fine but sometimes can take a couple of weeks to get your money back. Sometimes it is very quick if the seller is cooperative. In my opinion, it is generally no more of a issue than most product returns on average.
> The point is that there was, in fact, "incorrect and misleading" information posted by someone who was ignorant of the facts and directly stated you would be "stuck with a doorstop" or an otherwise useless item and more importantly a total loss of money.
> I simply provided the correct information and now the ignorant get upset and try to change the argument and without acknowledging that they were mistaken want to say that the process is "too difficult" to get their money back and do so with absolutely no experience what-so-ever.
> I did not correct anyone to insult them or demean them in any way. We all make mistakes and it might sting a bit when we are confronted with them, but the cleaver swallow the sting and learn from their mistakes.


E-Bay has been great for me as a seller and buyer in making things correct, my best example: I sold a TiVo some years ago, and in the middle of the night the buyer asked for and got his money back, E-Bay took it from me that night, I called to complain, the E-Bay CSR said that was incorrect and would return my money, E-Bay returned, within a day, the gross payment the buyer had paid me + what I said it cost me to ship the TiVo, and also gave me cr. on my E-Bay charge, A week later I got the TiVo back, called E-Bay and the CSR told me just to keep the TiVo or re-sell but no charge to me. E-Bay not as easy as Amazon for returns, but not that bad.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

lessd said:


> E-Bay has been great for me as a seller and buyer in making things correct, my best example: I sold a TiVo some years ago, and in the middle of the night the buyer asked for and got his money back, E-Bay took it from me that night, I called to complain, the E-Bay CSR said that was incorrect and would return my money, E-Bay returned, within a day, the gross payment the buyer had paid me + what I said it cost me to ship the TiVo, and also gave me cr. on my E-Bay charge, A week later I got the TiVo back, called E-Bay and the CSR told me just to keep the TiVo or re-sell but no charge to me. E-Bay not as easy as Amazon for returns, but not that bad.


So eBay just ate the costs? Surely they don't do that in all cases, do they? My guess was they try to arbitrate between buyer and seller and then try to get the two parties to agree on a settlement. I assumed that if they became convinced one party was in the wrong, and that party would not agree to a reasonable settlement, they would probably absorb the costs -- but then that person would be banned from eBay. I attempted to search their site for an explanation of how it works but didn't get anywhere.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

magnus said:


> Dude, I'm not ignorant on this subject and what I said is correct but whatever think what you want. My information is factual... yours is not.


Hi,
Perhaps you could use your vast knowledge and experience on Ebay to "explain" which part of my information is not factual.....you seemed to have skipped that part in your response. I am especially curious on how you found yourself with a "cheap paperweight"?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

dlfl said:


> So eBay just ate the costs? Surely they don't do that in all cases, do they? My guess was they try to arbitrate between buyer and seller and then try to get the two parties to agree on a settlement. I assumed that if they became convinced one party was in the wrong, and that party would not agree to a reasonable settlement, they would probably absorb the costs -- but then that person would be banned from eBay. I attempted to search their site for an explanation of how it works but didn't get anywhere.


Your correct, but I won every case I have open and never lost any money on any sale or purchase, the case above is the one time I made money because of an error E-Bay made, you just open a case if you have a problem with a buyer or seller, just make sure your listing is very accurate (if a seller), and read any item description before any E-Bay purchase. On over 1000 sales/purchases I have had 6 cases I have opened, or opened on me, won every case.


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## TiVoSupport_Sarah (Mar 30, 2015)

Hello,

It is always advised when purchasing a TiVo used that you get the TSN prior to purchase. Yes you can go back and dispute when the product info was mis-leading however it would be faster and easier if you know what you purchase before hand and certainly less hastle. You can chat in with the TSN or call in as well to verify the service type.

There are always scammers! If the seller is not willing to provide a TSN or are selling NEW TiVo for a discount please beware of these purchases. The concern is that if you provide your personaly identifying info (address, email, phone number) then it can be used to create a fraudulent TiVo account where purchases can be made.

If the person you are purchasing from already has the TiVo Service Number (TSN) then it is less likely to be an issue. If you ever have questions on this please feel free to contact TiVo directly.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

TiVoSupport_Sarah said:


> Hello,
> 
> It is always advised when purchasing a TiVo used that you get the TSN prior to purchase. Yes you can go back and dispute when the product info was mis-leading however it would be faster and easier if you know what you purchase before hand and certainly less hastle. You can chat in with the TSN or call in as well to verify the service type.
> 
> ...


I cannot argue with the practice of calling into Tivo to verify the service level of used equipment, however, if Tivo wants to protect it's customers from Ebay or other online scammers, it could simply not ship equipment to any place other than the billing address for the credit cards. This is the practice which allowed the flurry of Bolt and mini scams off of Ebay a short while ago.


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## snedecor (Jun 27, 2001)

You guys can continue to argue about Ebay all you wish, 

but, I decided to purchase a new 93000 unit from Amazon.

Now, I think that I'm going to pull the trigger on the OTA Roamio with lifetime for $299 for that same spot, so I may have an almost-new Mini for sale in the not-too-distant timeframe.

Thanks for all the help, and interesting discussion!

Moderators may lock this thread at their discretion.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

fcfc2 said:


> I cannot argue with the practice of calling into Tivo to verify the service level of used equipment, however, if Tivo wants to protect it's customers from Ebay or other online scammers, it could simply not ship equipment to any place other than the billing address for the credit cards. This is the practice which allowed the flurry of Bolt and mini scams off of Ebay a short while ago.


Amazon makes it easy to ship to anywhere with any credit card even if it not your credit card, because I have Prime I shipped a gift to a friend kid using his credit card so it would arrive on time, so not my credit card or address, not shipped to the address on my friends credit card, never had a problem.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

lessd said:


> Amazon makes it easy to ship to anywhere with any credit card even if it not your credit card, because I have Prime I shipped a gift to a friend kid using his credit card so it would arrive on time, so not my credit card or address, not shipped to the address on my friends credit card, never had a problem.


And as long as your friend accepts the charges to his credit card there will not be a problem. What do you think would happen if a scammer had both a bogus credit card and had also hacked into your Amazon account? Most likely, with Amazon, they would flag your account and contact you and because they are a customer friendly company they would likely eat the loss.
With Ebay it is different, the original Tivo product is purchased directly from Tivo with a bogus credit card after an Ebay purchase has been made from a hacked Ebay account and drop shipped to the Ebay purchaser. Everything looks ok for up to 3 months or so when the credit card company reverses the original purchase from Tivo and once Tivo catches on, it responds by simply turning off service to the original unit because they not Amazon have the ability to do this. It is the fact that the original Tivo retail purchase was done directly and then drop shipped to another address that allows this kind of thing to go on. If Tivo simply restricted their retail sales to go to the registered billing address, this kind of scam would be impossible.
If you use many of the smaller online sellers who cannot afford to take these kind of losses, they restrict shipping to the billing address. 
Tivos are a bit unique because of the "service" component but if the same thing were done with say their slide remotes (no service required) then they would be stuck with loss.
I hope this explains the issue fully.


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## GoodSpike (Dec 17, 2001)

lessd said:


> Amazon makes it easy to ship to anywhere with any credit card even if it not your credit card, because I have Prime I shipped a gift to a friend kid using his credit card so it would arrive on time, so not my credit card or address, not shipped to the address on my friends credit card, never had a problem.


I recently shipped something to my mom using my credit card, and there was an extra step because of the address that they didn't recognize. I don't remember for certain what it was, but they might have again asked for the 3 digit code.

Also, of course you can use anyone's card if you have the information. My wife has one of her cards in my Amazon account. There wasn't anything different about putting that card in than adding a different card of mine.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Get the new version here for $89: http://electronics.woot.com/plus/tivo-roamio-ota-tivo-mini-2


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## YazzerKen (Sep 8, 2018)

FYI, I bought 2 Tivo Minis off Facebook Marketplace (model 93000). Got home and couldn't connect because they were still registered with the original owner. For a minute, I thought I owned a couple nice paperweights.

I called Tivo support, and they very quickly changed ownership to my account. I could see both Tivos under my account within minutes. It was a wonderful customer service experience, and Tina was very helpful and kind. She told me to wait 30 minutes.

I was too impatient and kept trying to connect them. Then I stopped to make dinner. After dinner, they connected fine.

NOTE: I also gave them custom names just to help troubleshoot, and verify the devices were communicating to my tivo.com account.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

YazzerKen said:


> FYI, I bought 2 Tivo Minis off Facebook Marketplace (model 93000). Got home and couldn't connect because they were still registered with the original owner. For a minute, I thought I owned a couple nice paperweights.
> 
> I called Tivo support, and they very quickly changed ownership to my account. I could see both Tivos under my account within minutes. It was a wonderful customer service experience, and Tina was very helpful and kind. She told me to wait 30 minutes.
> 
> ...


Hi Ken, 
Welcome to the forums and great to search for related posts too, but if the thread you find is more than about a month or so old...it is usually best to start a new thread if you think it is worthy.


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