# Will I Still Need 110 & 119?



## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

When or IF I need to get rid of my HR10-250, will I still need line of sight to the sats at 110 and 119, if I live in NJ and get NYC locals? These have always been a problem and I went through hell convincing an installer 3 years ago that he could combine 2 dishes. I would have two HD DVRs and one SD box.
Its been a while since I was here but thanks, guys.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

Currently the 110 & 119 sats carry these channels.
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa110.html
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa119.html

I'd say you could get rid of 110 and 119 now. Of course, you'll need an MPEG4 capable receiver.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

From what I have read elsewhere, installers must see a signal on all satellites or they don't get paid. There is a new "SWMline-3" (as it is nicknamed) which receives only 99, 101 and 103, so if you get one of those, no problem.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Great info, guys. Thank you.

So are the NYC locals and channels like ESPN HD, Showtime and HBO on 110 and 119 encoded MPEG2?
Meaning do they also exist on either 99, 101 or 103 but as MPEG4?

If so, I'd be fine with just those three sats I believe as long as my SD receiver was also upgraded to be able to decode MPEG4.

I've been trying to keep my TiVo as long as I can, but between losing MPEG2 HD channels and the ongoing problem I have with 119 and trees, I think its about time to upgrade.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NYC locals are on a spot beam on either 99 or 103. All HD national channels are available in MPEG4 on 99 and 103 conus satellites now. That includes ESPN on channel 206, etc.

If you have problems with 119 you will need the new SWMline-3 dish as the 5 LNB dish gets guide data off 119 for some of the satellites. The SWMline-3 gets all guide data from the 101 satellite.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Wonderful. Thanks everyone for all the info.

If anyone gets around to answering this side question, thanks too. I'm just curious if I noticed something correctly. Do the MPEG4 HD channels automatically show up as the same channel it originally was in SD? Meaning does the HD Disney Channel also show up as 290 just like the SD version did? Or for that matter, would the MPEG4 HD NYC CBS channel 2, show up as channel 2, unlike the MPEG2 CBS channel 80?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

There is an option to "hide SD duplicates". If enabled, then the SD channel will not show in the guide and the HD channel usually has the same number.

As for CBS NY, if you are in the NY market, then it should show as channel 2. If it is a distant network for you, the MPEG2 version will be in the 80s - until it disappears.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

CBS NY will show up as 2 in the New York market (MPEG4) as well as 80 (MPEG2) in the New York market and DNS for those who qualify and as 390 (MPEG4) in the New York market and DNS for the even fewer that qualify.

As Steve noted, the MPEG2 version will be going away soon.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Again, perfect info. Thanks a lot, guys!


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

In case anyone else finds this thread by doing a search someday, I'll post back when I set things up.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

stevel said:


> From what I have read elsewhere, installers must see a signal on all satellites or they don't get paid...


"See" is sort of a nebulous term. And them getting paid is actually based on whether the sub signs the work order rather than whether things are actually tuned in properly. If they do a sloppy job and you "kinda" get the HD channels on a clear day and you still sign off, they get paid, and you get screwed. When the guy says "You're all set. Please sign here." that's a little intimidating. Who is going to question them? I'll tell you who, the guy who asks them to show him the numbers on the screen and verifies their work, which I recommend before signing.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

JimSpence said:


> Currently the 110 & 119 sats carry these channels.
> http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa110.html
> http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa119.html...


 So it looks like 110 carries duplicates of HD channels that you get on the new sats, and that 119 only does certain SD local into local, niche ethnic channels, and XM audio channels. That's more than a little surprising. Where are all of the core SD channels?


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## Da Goon (Oct 22, 2006)

TyroneShoes said:


> Where are all of the core SD channels?


101.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

True, 101. Before I had HD, I didn't have a dish pointed at the other sats at all to my knowledge. Now with MPEG4, my hope is that they will let me use the SL3 so that I can not have to worry about the problems I have with 110 and especially 119. I'll actually be calling them today.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Okay, for those interested, I made the call to DirecTV. First I also have to say that I have been thinking I'd have to leave them because of losing the MPEG2 channels. Not just DirecTV turning them off, but with my problems seeing 110 and 119 because of trees. I had this problem when I last signed a contract three years ago too when upgrading to HD. My install wound up being crazy. I got info here that I could combine two dishes, but had a hell of a time getting an installer to say it could be done - or willing to do it. I won't get into that here, except to say I have two dishes at the moment.

So the SL3 gave me hope, but I made the call simply asking how I would go about canceling. I called the normal number listed on the website assuming they would then transfer me to retention, but fully expecting that I may be canceling if not today then after I find out that the installer can't get it to work. She said she would transfer me to the correct department but wanted to ask first why I was canceling. I gave her the whole story. I also told her that when I signed my last contract three years ago, that I bought an HR10-250 and was told at the time that when the MPEG4 boxes came out, I'd be upgraded for free and that never happened.

She never transfered me. She told me that they would upgrade me with either an HR20-700 or HR21-700 and a new SL5 dish for free with NO commitment, and that I would OWN it, not be leasing it and I could keep my HR10-250. I told her I didn't think it would work because of my problems with 110 and 119. I asked about the SL3 and she had no idea what it was even after explaining it to her and give her every name I could think of for this new LNB, but she said maybe the techs knew about it if it was really new which I said it was.

I told her that I wouldn't really want to spend the time upgrading if I didn't do an HD upgrade to one of my other two rooms because of a new HDTV I put in there. She said she would give me another HR20 or 21 for free, but I would be leasing that one with a two year commitment and offered me $10 off my bill for a year. I still had to think about it and I felt bad with how much time I was taking because I said I honestly didn't think it would work with the SL5 dish. She told me that she would note all this down and wrote that an SL3 dish might work best if they had one available and she said if it didn't work, there would be no two year commitment. At that point I agreed to go through with it. I also was thinking of signing up for Showtime, because we've gotten hooked on Dexter and asked how much a month it cost. That's all I said and she offered to give it to me free for three months. I still may buy it for a while though after the 3 months now that I know what it costs and if Dexter is still going on.

She let me keep my old Total Choice Package with added DVR and HD even though it works out to being $3 cheaper than their current packages. She also started the three months of Showtime and 12 months of $10 off now, and said it was fine that I might not be signing a contract.

Wish me luck that it works out. My install is set for Saturday, September 6th.

For those interested, here's a rundown of what I'm getting.
Two HD DVRs
New Dish
Install
No Shipping
$10 off for 12 months
Showtime free for 3 months


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

By the way, I'll miss my TiVo like crazy, but I'm putting it in my bedroom. This feels like being made to move to a PC after using a Mac for so long. Very sad.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

memnoch said:


> By the way, I'll miss my TiVo like crazy, but I'm putting it in my bedroom. This feels like being made to move to a PC after using a Mac for so long. Very sad.


Go into it with an open mind. I actually didn't and now I like my HR2x's better than my HD Tivo (which has the latest software).

Anyway, back to the 110/119 problem. It is guide data that you will lose but I have heard that if you have the SL5 dish you can get the guide data if you tune your box to a channel that is on the 101 satellite regularly. (Like leave it on a national SD channel overnight.) This is repeated information, I am not sure if it is true. It may tide you over until you can get the SL3 if they don't have one for you right now.

Good luck.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Thanks, Tony. Being I won't be won't be using any channels off 110 or 119, that should be an easy thing to do, although I'm surprised its necessary. Hopefully they will at least do the the install. 

I am correct that 99, 101 and 103 are higher in the sky and to the "left" of 110 and 119 from the east coast, right?


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

memnoch said:


> By the way, I'll miss my TiVo like crazy, but I'm putting it in my bedroom. This feels like being made to move to a PC after using a Mac for so long. Very sad.


I think it's more like moving from a OS X Mac back to a OS 9 Mac, except the move opens up a world of new content to compensate the loss. Comparing the HR2x to a PC is pretty harsh. Nothing should ever be compared to a PC.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

HA. thanks! I needed that. Well put, well put. I always enjoyed reading your posts and I definitely remember why.


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## parzec (Jun 21, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> I think it's more like moving from a OS X Mac back to a OS 9 Mac, except the move opens up a world of new content to compensate the loss. Comparing the HR2x to a PC is pretty harsh. Nothing should ever be compared to a PC.


I think it is more like going from MAC OSX to IBM OS/2 -- it gets the job done but is not very pretty or user friendly.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

memnoch said:


> Thanks, Tony. Being I won't be won't be using any channels off 110 or 119, that should be an easy thing to do, although I'm surprised its necessary. Hopefully they will at least do the the install.


The guide data is not just for 110 or 119 channels. It is just the way the SL5 works. It shares the load of guide data. The SL3 works differently and gets all its data from the 101.



memnoch said:


> I am correct that 99, 101 and 103 are higher in the sky and to the "left" of 110 and 119 from the east coast, right?


To the left for sure (if you are looking south). Not sure of the height.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Thanks, Tony. I did understand that. I just figured being I won't be watching anything off 110 or 199, it will be pretty easy to have a channel overnight not on one of those sats.

Yes I'd be looking South and that what I thought and was hoping. Thanks again.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

parzec said:


> I think it is more like going from MAC OSX to IBM OS/2 -- it gets the job done but is not very pretty or user friendly.


I have to admit, your's is the better analogy.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

So HBO in HD is still on an MPEG 2 channel?

Is it going away anytime soon?

-smak-


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

As of today, yes, HBO HD is still offered as MPEG2. It probably will cease being available that way by the end of the year.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Thanks. I'm thinking of adding HBO again for Entourage and a few of their new series.

-smak-


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Is HBO also in MPEG4 though? Thanks.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

From what I can tell, HBOE-HD is MPEG2 only at this date. HBOW-HD has been added as MPEG4-only.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Thanks, Steve.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Steve, in another thread you said this... "I found another source indicating that 70 was MPEG2 and 501 was MPEG4."

Are you referring to HBOE that you were talking about above?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Yes.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Great news being I'm hoping to get away from 110 and 119, thanks again.


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## texasbrit (Mar 17, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Go into it with an open mind. I actually didn't and now I like my HR2x's better than my HD Tivo (which has the latest software).
> 
> Anyway, back to the 110/119 problem. It is guide data that you will lose but I have heard that if you have the SL5 dish you can get the guide data if you tune your box to a channel that is on the 101 satellite regularly. (Like leave it on a national SD channel overnight.) This is repeated information, I am not sure if it is true. It may tide you over until you can get the SL3 if they don't have one for you right now.
> 
> Good luck.


This is completely true. The DirecTV stack plan for the 5-lnb dish has 99/101 together, and 103/110/119 together. This means if you are tuned to any 99 or 101 channel you receive the copy of the full guide data coming from 101, and if you are tuned to 103/110/119 you see the full guide data coming from 119. So if you can't see 119, and have a 5-lnb dish, and keep your receiver on 103 (most of the new HD channels) you will eventually lose guide data because you won't see any updates. But if you set the receiver to a 99 or 101 channel every night, or set up a daily autotune for say 3am to a 99/101 channel, the guide data will be refreshed and things will be OK.
For a DVR it's a bit more complicated. Only tuner 1 receives the guide data so you have to be sure tuner 1 is on a 99/101 channel regularly. The only way to be certain of this is by setting a manual recording on both tuners to make a short recording every day from 101 channels at say 3am. Then you will have to delete the recordings, a bit messier than the receiver but it works.
If you get an SL3 dish, which only receives 99/101/103, the stack plan is modified so that the guide is available when you are tuned to 103 as well as 99/101, so the problem is completely solved.
And before anyone asks - if you have an SL5 and then tell the receiver you have an SL3, that tidies up the guide because the 110/119 channels are removed, but it does not solve the guide problem because the SL5 is still using the same stack plan.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

GREAT info! Thanks.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Well my install was today and it didn't work. I'll tell the whole story for anyone who's interested or does a search in the future, plus I will have a couple questions spread around in there.

A reminder first. I originally had a dish on my roof looking at 101. Then when I upgraded to HD with the HR10-250 three years ago, I went through hell because 110 and 119 couldn't bee seen from the roof due to trees and 101 couldn't be see from the ground. Because of this forum, I knew I could combine two dishes, but I had to go through many installers telling me it couldn't be done before one finally said that it could. So now I have a dish on the roof looking at 101 and a dish on the ground looking at 100 and 119 being combined, though 119 is not doing so well these days because of trees.

On to today. Here's the basics of what he said. Ready?

The second dish can't be working because its impossible to combine two dishes.
No sir they are combined.

His SlimLine3 has five, count them, five LNBs! No sir, that would be an SL5. In that case he never heard of an SL3. Neither has ANY rep I've talked to on the phone by the way. Is the SL3 out at least in some parts of the country?

Sat 103 isn't actually online and doesn't work yet so the receiver won't see a signal for it even if we connect everything.

I NEED 110 and 119 because that is where the majority of the new HD channels are, especially 110. I told him he was wrong and I would sign a waiver, that I don't care about those sats, because I know I'll never get them from one dish.

Him: From your roof I can see 99 and 101, but 103 is being obscured by that branch.
Me: Are you sure its THAT branch? Its ABOVE the dish. not in front of it.
Him: Yes I'm sure. You may even be able to get 110 and 119 by removing it.
Me: Are you sure you don't mean that tree way over there that's not on my property?
Him: Yes I'm sure.
Me: Fine, I'll cut it off (I climbed on roof with a saw on the end of a pole and got it.)
Him: Now that tree way over there that's not on your property is a problem.
Me: You're messing with me right?
Him: Nope. You can have a supervisor come out but I can't do the installation.

So that's where i was and he left.

I called DTV, said the voice prompt "Cancel Service" and got put straight through to Retention. I told him what happened very nicely, after all I was kind of expecting this. What a weird day though, when I asked if we could get a supervisor or lead tech out here for a second opinion, Retention actually said to me, "Well if the installer today said you have no line of sight, you'll have to suspend or cancel service." Wow I never had Retention say that to me. I asked if we shouldn't just have the supervisor come out first and he then agreed he would make a call to the local office. We were on hold forever. To try to shorten this message though, someone else is coming out in three weeks. To be fair, I need it to be on a Saturday because I really feel I should be there.

I may need to move to Comcast which kills me because it seems it will cost me more and they have way less HD channels. Fios isn't in my area. Does anyone know based on my description of what sats I can see if I will have better luck with Dish Network? I have good LOS to the South if that matters.

Thanks for everyone's help so far.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

texasbrit said:


> The only way to be certain of this is by setting a manual recording on both tuners to make a short recording every day from 101 channels at say 3am. Then you will have to delete the recordings, a bit messier than the receiver but it works.


cant you find a program that is on every night, set up an SP and set it to only keep one ep..that way just one recording and no deleting things every night


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## jerryj (Mar 7, 2004)

I have a 5lnb dish and did receive everything I was expecting. After some roof repairs, 501 (HBOEHD) disappeared. I can get 70 and haven't found any other channels that don't come in. 501 says no signal. Is it on a different sat from everything else? I don't understand why only the one channel disappeared. Thanks for any help.
Jerry


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

newsposter said:


> cant you find a program that is on every night, set up an SP and set it to only keep one ep..that way just one recording and no deleting things every night


That's exactly what I was planning on doing as well if the install had worked out. Oh well. I don't expect anything different from the supervisor though, but we'll see.


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## Cabinwood (Mar 11, 2000)

I am a bit confused here. I had the new dish installed 3-4 weeks ago and I do not get 119 because of trees. I never record anything on 101 and haven't noticed a problem with the guide data, unless I'm missing something!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

jerryj said:


> I have a 5lnb dish and did receive everything I was expecting. After some roof repairs, 501 (HBOEHD) disappeared. I can get 70 and haven't found any other channels that don't come in. 501 says no signal. Is it on a different sat from everything else?


Yes - HBOHD on 501 is on the 103 satellite, whereas 70 is MPEG2 from 101. What does the signal strength meter say when you select the 103c position?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Cabinwood said:


> I never record anything on 101 and haven't noticed a problem with the guide data, unless I'm missing something!


wow, thats an impressive statement to make given the sheer number of channels on the 101....how do you do it?


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## Cabinwood (Mar 11, 2000)

newsposter said:


> wow, thats an impressive statement to make given the sheer number of channels on the 101....how do you do it?


Woops, I meant to say I never record anything on 101 in the middle of the night!


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

I'm not sure anyone read or really wanted to read my entire first post from yesterday, so I'm going to compile a few of the questions from it in the hope that someone has answers.

Is the SL3 out at least in some parts of the country?

103 is up and running, right?

Does anyone know based on my description of what sats I can see if I will have better luck with Dish Network? I have good LOS to the South if that matters.

Thanks, guys.


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## Cabinwood (Mar 11, 2000)

Wow, sounds like you really had a clueless installer. I can't answer about the SL3 but the 103 sat is up and running for sure. I'm not sure about Dish Network now, but in the past, neighbors who could see the Directv sats couldn't see Dish cause they were lower in the sky.

I had two installers tell me they wouldn't install here because of trees. We finally went ahead and bought our own equipment and did our own install and didn't worry about 119 since we knew it was going away. We are surrounded by trees here but just have a hole where we need it to get 99/101/103/110.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Cabinwood said:


> Woops, I meant to say I never record anything on 101 in the middle of the night!


total guess here...if you arent tuned to the channel it will do it for you


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Cabinwood said:


> Wow, sounds like you really had a clueless installer. I can't answer about the SL3 but the 103 sat is up and running for sure. I'm not sure about Dish Network now, but in the past, neighbors who could see the Directv sats couldn't see Dish cause they were lower in the sky.
> 
> I had two installers tell me they wouldn't install here because of trees. We finally went ahead and bought our own equipment and did our own install and didn't worry about 119 since we knew it was going away. We are surrounded by trees here but just have a hole where we need it to get 99/101/103/110.


Thanks, and good to know Dish is lower.

Maybe if I do this myself and get ahold of an SL3, they will compensate me, who knows.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

newsposter said:


> total guess here...if you arent tuned to the channel it will do it for you


I know I shouldn't but for some reason I get a kick out of your posts. I did three years ago too when I was here often.


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## Cabinwood (Mar 11, 2000)

memnoch said:


> Thanks, and good to know Dish is lower.
> 
> Maybe if I do this myself and get ahold of an SL3, they will compensate me, who knows.


Well, we talked the installer into giving us the dish he was going to install since we bought our own. We'll keep it as a backup


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## jerryj (Mar 7, 2004)

stevel said:


> Yes - HBOHD on 501 is on the 103 satellite, whereas 70 is MPEG2 from 101. What does the signal strength meter say when you select the 103c position?


Signal strength on 103c is in the upper 60s and lower 70s. Lowest is 66. Highest is 78. I have some zeros on 103s if that matters. BTW, after further checking, I seem to have no signal for all the channels (in the 200-500 range) which are also in the 70s: HBOE, TNTHD, HDNet, etc. I usually tune to the 70s so I didn't notice.
Jerry


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

memnoch said:


> I know I shouldn't but for some reason I get a kick out of your posts. I did three years ago too when I was here often.


i'm a news poster as well as an entertainer. both free of charge 

thanks


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

newsposter said:


> i'm a news poster as well as an entertainer. both free of charge
> 
> thanks


Thank goodness, because I'd feel too guilty if I had to pay for it.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

From my post way above yesterday about my installation fiasco, I'm still curious about one thing if anyone knows.... Is the SL3 actually out there in the market anywhere in the US yet. From what I've read, it is, but I have yet to talk to anyone at DTV that has heard of it.


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## Gene Jockey (Jan 17, 2005)

memnoch said:


> From my post way above yesterday about my installation fiasco, I'm still curious about one thing if anyone knows.... Is the SL3 actually out there in the market anywhere in the US yet. From what I've read, it is, but I have yet to talk to anyone at DTV that has heard of it.


It is. Limited markets, though.

If you want to see what's up with the SL3, check out this thread over atDBStalk:

DBSTalk First Look: Slimline3 ODU


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Beautiful. Thank you.


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

Okay, I'm going to write about having DTV come back out today in case anyone ever does a search in the future and this whole story can be of help. I started this thread, and after I did, I called DTV to set things up. If anyone wants to read about that experience and the deal I got, its on page 1 and was written on 8-17-08. Then I wrote again on page 2 on 9-6-08 after the installer was out and my install didn't work out. I had called DTV that day and set up a install date and second opinion with a LEAD TECH or SUPERVISOR. I grilled them about this several times because years ago I went through problems and even though they kept telling me they would send one out, I NEVER got one. They assured me this time I would. That being said, leads us to yesterday - my second install attempt......

A young man in a non-DTV pickup truck pulled in my driveway. So of course that was my 1st question and of course no he was not a supervisor or a lead tech. AMAZING. Believe it or not though, hearing he was a freelance contractor and not a DTV employee made me feel better. Over the past years, I've had three installs. The initial install with a freelance contractor which went beautifully, then an HD upgrade 3 years ago which was hell after having about 4 DTV techs out and then this 3rd install upgrading to an SL5 and mpeg4 boxes, already not going well because of the DTV tech that was here 3 weeks ago. So I figured I'd give this guy a shot and started telling him of my experiences and basically gathering info on him and grilling him. He passed and I let him do his thing.

Now my first dish looking at 101 is on the roof at the corner of my house. Once he got to work, before even climbing on my roof, he pulled out his device and looked into the sky from the GROUND at the corner of my house. He instantly told me that DTV employees are idiots and he can't imagine it not working from the roof because from the ground all is fine and WORST case he could install on the side of my house. Oh, I did tell him I don't care about 110 and 119 and I'll sign off on that. He said that was fine with him and good because he can't guarantee those sats.

Long story short, the new dish was put right next to my 101 dish on my roof AND it not only worked, BUT I ALSO got sats 110 and 119 - after everything I had gone through. Which means even three years ago, I didn't need to go through all that I did with 2 separate dishes because there were no actual LOS issues from my roof.

For those that want to know, he like everyone else I've talked to from DTV had no idea about the SL3, although at least he said he had read about it online. That's more than I've ever gotten from a DTV employee. Now I'm glad he didn't have one since I was able to see 110 and 119 anyway. Also, perhaps by not being able to do the install 3 weeks ago, I got even luckier - I got two HR-22s instead of the 20s or 21s I was told I would get.

I did have a few shady issues with this guy that I won't get into, but I'm curious.... are they suppose to take down the old dish, or in my case, dishes? He did not. I still have the old one on my roof and the other one in my yard - three dishes total now.

So not a perfect experience yesterday but overall I'm very happy and actually glad I don't have to deal with leaving DTV.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

i'm pretty sure they wont take down dishes..definitely not the mounts..dont wanna be responsible for holes


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## memnoch (Dec 25, 2004)

That part's good to know then. Thanks, man.
And so ends my story I hope  At least for a couple more years.


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