# s3 or Comcast Tivo?



## mickeymammoth (May 9, 2002)

I would like to ditch DirecTivo and get HD cable (no, I don't want to invest in HD DirecTivo now, considering what seems like the imminent lack of support for MPEG-2 devices).

Is there any reason to buy the S3 versus the Comcast Tivo, other than that the S3 will be available sooner? I'd feel silly spending $800 plus a higher monthly fee on the S3 if the comcast Tivo has the same features for cheaper.


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

$800 is simply a rumored price. Keep your eyes peeled for an actual price and relase date hopefully in the next couple weeks. At that time, official specs will be announced from TiVo, (again, rather than those rumored now) and you will really be able to do a side-by-side.


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## amjustice (Mar 9, 2006)

I can almost guarantee there will be features that will signficantly differentiate the two but since we don't know a lot about either we don't know what those are yet.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

mickeymammoth said:


> I would like to ditch DirecTivo and get HD cable (no, I don't want to invest in HD DirecTivo now, considering what seems like the imminent lack of support for MPEG-2 devices).
> 
> Is there any reason to buy the S3 versus the Comcast Tivo, other than that the S3 will be available sooner? I'd feel silly spending $800 plus a higher monthly fee on the S3 if the comcast Tivo has the same features for cheaper.


Downside to the comcast tivo is that it will run on the motorola box. This box is notorios for being slow.
Also small non-upgradeable hard drive and no Tivo to go or multi-room viewing options.
It may still be worth it to you. For me $799 is too much money. I will wait for the Comcast Tivo.

Question: What do you mean by "lack of support for MPEG2 devices in the HD DirecTivo.


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

seattlewendell said:


> For me $799 is too much money.


Again, this is simply a rumored price point for the S3. There has been NO official rumore or announcement. It is too soon to base a decision on this rumored price IMO.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

seattlewendell said:


> Question: What do you mean by "lack of support for MPEG2 devices in the HD DirecTivo.


DirecTV has already announced that all MPEG-2 HD provided by SAT will be converted to MPEG-4. They are swapping out equipment to MPEG-4 compatible equipment.

However, there is no "TiVo" powered MPEG-4 HD DVR, there is just the HR20.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> DirecTV has already announced that all MPEG-2 HD provided by SAT will be converted to MPEG-4. They are swapping out equipment to MPEG-4 compatible equipment.
> ...


This should not be a surprise to anyone that all D* HD and probably eventually all D* SD will go to MPEG4. 10-12 years from now we may see another swapout of MPEG 5 or 6 and/or some other type(s) of newer technology.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

vstone said:


> This should not be a surprise to anyone that all D* HD and probably eventually all D* SD will go to MPEG4. 10-12 years from now we may see another swapout of MPEG 5 or 6 and/or some other type(s) of newer technology.


There is 100% ZERO plans to convert the MPEG-2 SD to anything else.

As that would require the "free" swap out of nearly 50,000,000 receivers

(15.5 million subscribers average of 2-3 receivers per subscriber)

Not a chance...

And I would hope in 10-12 years, that the compression technology of Video footage is updated.............


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## mickeymammoth (May 9, 2002)

seattlewendell said:


> Downside to the comcast tivo is that it will run on the motorola box. This box is notorios for being slow.
> Also small non-upgradeable hard drive and no Tivo to go or multi-room viewing options.


Thanks, this is good to know. I think it might be worth it to me to get the S3. I was never much of a pay-per-view watcher, so I'm not too worried about that. Big hard drive is important. And on DirecTV, it's been sad watching all those new Tivo features pass us by...


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## colorofthesoul (Jan 6, 2006)

Is there an expected release date for the comcast/motorola/tivo box???


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

colorofthesoul said:


> Is there an expected release date for the comcast/motorola/tivo box???


There will be no new box, it will be a software-only load to existing Motorola boxes (presumably the 6412 Phase III boxes).


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

Before you spend extra $$, try the moto software. It does everything tivo does except wish lists and suggestions. It has much faster guides and search capabilities and allows for much easier access to the "favorites" guide. It also allows for your show to continue in the background while you access guides\playing list. The moto also has native passthrough. 

I think tivo is good but needs some "tweaks" to make it more efficient. If speed is not important and suggestions & wishlists are, then you may want to spend the extra money.


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## JohnBrowning (Jul 15, 2004)

seattlewendell said:


> Downside to the comcast tivo is that it will run on the motorola box. This box is notorios for being slow.


The Moto box *running the current firmware* is notorious for being slow. No way to know how the TiVo firmware will perform until it is released. Unless you are one of the designers of the Moto box, you cannot say whether the box is slow due to poor firmware or underpowered hardware.


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## mickeymammoth (May 9, 2002)

fastep said:


> Before you spend extra $$, try the moto software.


I'm not interested in the generic Motorola software. I'm a Tivo loyalist. No way will I downgrade. I friend of mine just returned his entire Dish setup and went back to SD cable with a standalone Tivo because he couldn't stand their DVR. I know that's not the same as what Comcast has, but I'd rather keep SD with Tivo than get HD without.


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## dylanursula (Jan 5, 2005)

I have had both Tivo on DTV then Comcast DVR and now CC DVR and S2DT Tivo. The Tivo software is fab  but my worry for the CC box w.Tivo is the lack of HD space.... now if this could be upgraded either via SATA or a hard drive swap like in the DTivo environment then thats fab otherwise a S3 it is.


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## drewba (Nov 25, 2000)

colorofthesoul said:


> Is there an expected release date for the comcast/motorola/tivo box???


From the just released 2nd quarter earnings announcement:



> Further, we are happy with the way the Comcast relationship is progressing as is Comcast. Comcast believes we are on track to have the product available in trials before the end of 2006.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

mickeymammoth said:


> I would like to ditch DirecTivo and get HD cable (no, I don't want to invest in HD DirecTivo now, considering what seems like the imminent lack of support for MPEG-2 devices).
> 
> Is there any reason to buy the S3 versus the Comcast Tivo, other than that the S3 will be available sooner? I'd feel silly spending $800 plus a higher monthly fee on the S3 if the comcast Tivo has the same features for cheaper.


Comcast TiVo will only have about 14 hours of HD, you lease it so you can't upgrade the hard drive, and it likely won't support the TiVo Peanut remote. It WILL however, support VOD, PPV, etc.

The S3 you will own, meaning it's likely you can put a 750 Gig hard drive in and have 75 hours of HD programming, plus be able to add an external drive. Will have the peanut remote, will get the latest software from TiVo (we don't know how up to date the comcast tivo will be kept..), etc. Won't support VOD PPV, etc.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

JohnBrowning said:


> The Moto box *running the current firmware* is notorious for being slow. No way to know how the TiVo firmware will perform until it is released. Unless you are one of the designers of the Moto box, you cannot say whether the box is slow due to poor firmware or underpowered hardware.


This box is one of the most commonly used cable boxes and there is extensive information about it online. I researched this box a few years ago when Comcast bought AT&T and gave me this piece of junk box and took away the speedy Scientific Atlantic box I had. Here is the consensus on the moto boxes.
Comcast only wants to pay X for the boxes from moto. Moto sells the boxes to Comcast for X by building the box around a certain price point. Comcast takes the box and installs software/firmware way beyond what the box is capable of doing. Moto says specifically the box has a hard time with the channel guide data. So there.
Nope its not slam dunk that the Moto box will be slow with the Tivo firmware but I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

Adam1115 said:


> Comcast TiVo will only have about 14 hours of HD, you lease it so you can't upgrade the hard drive


and why would leasing keep you from putting a larger hard drive in it?


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

rminsk said:


> and why would leasing keep you from putting a larger hard drive in it?


Depends on what kind of stickler you are for rules, but many people are uncomfortable with opening a box they do not own.


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## seattlewendell (Jan 11, 2006)

rminsk said:


> and why would leasing keep you from putting a larger hard drive in it?


Also on one of the otehr s3 threads someone stated that Comcast puts a $700 charge on your bill if they find out that the box was opened. I don't know how they would find out but that's the deal.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

fastep said:


> Before you spend extra $$, try the moto software. It does everything tivo does except wish lists and suggestions. It has much faster guides and search capabilities and allows for much easier access to the "favorites" guide.


Umm, which Motorola box/software are you using?

Faster guides? Nope.

Faster search? I dunno - the search on the Moto is far to painful to even try to use, so I don't bother.


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## jfh3 (Apr 15, 2004)

mickeymammoth said:


> Is there any reason to buy the S3 versus the Comcast Tivo, other than that the S3 will be available sooner? I'd feel silly spending $800 plus a higher monthly fee on the S3 if the comcast Tivo has the same features for cheaper.


Well, the Tivo call today confirmed what most of us suspected - the Comcast software will have a subset of the Tivo features. There certainly won't be any ability to receive broadband content using the Comcast version. Other than that, who knows.

The biggest difference will be the ability to increase storage.

The Comcast boxes can only hold 12-16 hours of HD programming and aren't expandable. Tivo S3 will be about 30 hours and will be expandable.

I have a Comcast box that I was originally going to hold on to until the Tivo software deployment, but am now going to return the day I go pick up my cablecards for the S3 - I just can't deal with the limited storage on the Comcast box.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

rminsk said:


> and why would leasing keep you from putting a larger hard drive in it?


1) Getting charged by the cable company for the box.
2) They will probably be able to tell, this box will have two-way communication with Comcast.
3) It's not a traditional TiVo, we don't even know if it will be upgradeable, and if it is we don't know how. (Who know's what they had to do to get this to work on this box..) So, there's a risk of making a box you don't own a door stop.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> There is 100% ZERO plans to convert the MPEG-2 SD to anything else.
> 
> As that would require the "free" swap out of nearly 50,000,000 receivers
> 
> (15.5 million subscribers average of


I doubt there are no plans to swap SD from MPEG2. It would be dumb to not convert. The question is only as to timing.

There is no reason to "swap out" 50,000,000 receivers. Over the course of the next 3-6 years, the vast majority of the MPEG2 only receivers will be swapped out through normal attrition with receivers that do both MPEG2 and MPEG4. When the time comes to finally switch everything out of MPEG2, the number of receivers that will need to be switched out as free upgrades will be quickly approaching zero.

You also must take into account the fact that post-2009 you are going to see a never-ending drop off in SD broadcasts and a never-ending increase in HD broadcasts. Obviously, 2009 is the cutoff for OTA analog broadcasts. Of course no cutoff exists for cable stations, but at some point post-2009 cable stations will begin to migrate to digital only just like OTA. And anybody doing this transition will 9 times out of 10 be doing the converstion to HD, not just ED or SD digital.

Since DirecTV has adopted an "HDTV will be MPEG4" mantra, there will be less-and-less programming available to those with MPEG2-only boxes. Less programming is death for DirecTV, so they will get MPEG4 boxes into homes before they will call up a customer and say "your bill is staying the same, but you can no longer get 'My Super Sweet 16' because MTV is going to HDTV only."

You are the expert, Earl, so you will need to tell me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that all currently shipping DirecTV receivers (D11, R15, H20, HR20) other than the HR10-250 all support MPEG4.

This is the transition plan. I am positve that in approximately 5 years that DirecTV will no longer beam down anything in MPEG2.


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## LonghornXP2005 (Feb 18, 2005)

I would like to inform you all who keep saying the Comcast Tivo won't support all the Tivo features that you are wrong. I've been told directly that all Tivo features including multiroom viewing "will be" supported on the Comcast Tivo box. Tivo wanted to showcase these features using Comcast. The only thing I've been told that won't be offered right away will be the broadband delivered content but that will be offered shortly after the release. Also several press releases have said that Comcast will showcase the multiroom viewing features among others.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> You are the expert, Earl, so you will need to tell me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that all currently shipping DirecTV receivers (D11, R15, H20, HR20) other than the HR10-250 all support MPEG4.


The only MPEG-4 capable receivers are the H20 and the HR20

The D10/D11 and R15 do not have MPEG-4 support.


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## cheer (Nov 13, 2005)

SpankyInChicago said:


> This is the transition plan. I am positve that in approximately 5 years that DirecTV will no longer beam down anything in MPEG2.


Five years? Wow. I'd bet you pretty much anything you'd care to bet that they aren't even remotely close to doing this within five years, especially as the vast majority of receivers they're still putting out there aren't MPEG-4 compatible.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> The D10/D11 and R15 do not have MPEG-4 support.


Link?


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> The only MPEG-4 capable receivers are the H20 and the HR20
> 
> The D10/D11 and R15 do not have MPEG-4 support.


How about 8PSK?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Link?


No link, that is what I was told by several DirecTV folks.
We could dig around and look for some of the threads of those that disected the chip set of the R15..


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

bkdtv said:


> However, the D11 and R15 do support 8PSK, correct?


Hmm... Don't know about that... I know in both of their setup menus, they don't have an option to see the 5 LNB dish (but if the hardware could do it, then the software could be updated to see it)


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

cheer said:


> Five years? Wow. I'd bet you pretty much anything you'd care to bet that they aren't even remotely close to doing this within five years, especially as the vast majority of receivers they're still putting out there aren't MPEG-4 compatible.


Well, I said approximately.

Betting with anonymous idiots on the Internet is retarded. How are we going to track each other down in five years to claim victory and our reward?

But you can put me on record as saying that in ~5 years DirecTV won't be beaming down anything in MPEG2.

What content, exactly, do you think there will be to broadcast in 5-7 years that isn't digital? Can you possibly imagine any cable channel other than the Puppy Channel or some crazy thing like that not being digital in 5-7 years? I can't. As more stations switch to HD, not being in HD becomes a competitive disadvantage. Post-2009 as HDTV becomes much more common in the homes of Joe Sixpack, Joe will begin to expect HD and anyone still broadcasting in SD is going to look as antiquated as a VHS tape. When Cletus finds that he can watch swamp buggies racing through 'Sippi Holes in HD, Cletus shall demand his bog racing in HD.

Of course, I could be wrong. But if I am, then DirecTV will likely be in a death spiral. Staying with MPEG2 is pretty much a death sentence for DirecTV.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> No link, that is what I was told by several DirecTV folks.
> We could dig around and look for some of the threads of those that disected the chip set of the R15..


That would be great if you knew the chipsets in the D11 & R15. Then we would know for sure.

I am not doubting you. I just simply can't believe it.

If true, I am aghast that they could be that stupid.

If ture, a company that was once as great as DirecTV is now just another pile of junk doomed to failure by their own idiocy.


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## ntaylor (Feb 20, 2003)

fastep said:


> Before you spend extra $$, try the moto software. It does everything tivo does except wish lists and suggestions.


Does the iguide version have dual live buffers? The MSFE software that runs on the 6412 in Washington state doesn't. Of course D* screwed up by ditching that on their new HR20 as well, or I would go back there as soon as I could get that box.


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## DTSDude (May 24, 2006)

LonghornXP2005 said:


> I would like to inform you all who keep saying the Comcast Tivo won't support all the Tivo features that you are wrong. I've been told directly that all Tivo features including multiroom viewing "will be" supported on the Comcast Tivo box. Tivo wanted to showcase these features using Comcast. The only thing I've been told that won't be offered right away will be the broadband delivered content but that will be offered shortly after the release. Also several press releases have said that Comcast will showcase the multiroom viewing features among others.


How's it giong to support multi-room if the box isn't on a local network? The only officially mentioned functionality has been Season pass, Wishlist, and suggestions.


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

ntaylor said:


> Does the iguide version have dual live buffers? The MSFE software that runs on the 6412 in Washington state doesn't. Of course D* screwed up by ditching that on their new HR20 as well, or I would go back there as soon as I could get that box.


Yes moto has dual live buffers. Also has active firewire to move hd shows to pc or DVHS \ hd dvr like the rca 2160.


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

fastep said:


> Before you spend extra $$, try the moto software. It does everything tivo does except wish lists and suggestions. It has much faster guides and search capabilities and allows for much easier access to the "favorites" guide. It also allows for your show to continue in the background while you access guides\playing list. The moto also has native passthrough.
> 
> I think tivo is good but needs some "tweaks" to make it more efficient. If speed is not important and suggestions & wishlists are, then you may want to spend the extra money.


Exactly what he said. :up:


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> I think tivo is good but needs some "tweaks" to make it more efficient. If speed is not important and suggestions & wishlists are, then you may want to spend the extra money.


Note the "speed" was a function of the processor in the box, its memory, and its disk interface. The Series3 reportedly is much faster, which would suggest that it has a much faster processor as well.

The latest Series2 DT boxes use a Broadcom BCM7318 with a 266MHz MIPS processor rated at 340 MIPS. Older Series2 boxes had a processor running at 242MHz processor, rated at ~300 MIPS. All Series2 boxes use DDR266 or slower memory and EIDE or PATA hard drives. Broadcom's newest BCM7400 -- which could be in the Series3 -- has a dual-threaded 350MHz processor rated at 930 MIPS, three times as fast; it also incorporates faster 2D/3D graphics, a DDR400 memory interface, a SATA drive interface, and 100Mbps ethernet.


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## hybucket (Nov 26, 2004)

No offense, but for tech idiots like me, it's like listening to the techno-babble on Stargate SG-1. All I will want to know is, which I think was the original topic of this thread, what will be the differences between what will be the Series 3 and the TiVO-whatever that Comcast will offer. And, I'd think that now that DirecTV has their new unit out that is NOT a TiVO, it shouldn't be long before the Series 3 IS available, and that DirecTV will lose a lot of customers if they don't do the 6.3 update. And that's as technical as I get.


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> No offense, but for tech idiots like me, it's like listening to the techno-babble on Stargate SG-1. All I will want to know is, which I think was the original topic of this thread, what will be the differences between what will be the Series 3 and the TiVO-whatever that Comcast will offer.


The likely benefits of the Series3 over the Comcast Tivo include: 1) large drive for more storage capacity, 2) support for external drive expansion to increase capacity, 3) 30-second skip, 4) integration with PC/Mac, 5) TivoCast content delivered over broadband, and 6) faster / more responsive hardware.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

SpankyInChicago said:


> What content, exactly, do you think there will be to broadcast in 5-7 years that isn't digital? Can you possibly imagine any cable channel other than the Puppy Channel or some crazy thing like that not being digital in 5-7 years?


Huh?  So you are saying no one is going to broadcast anything that wasn't shot in HD (i.e. no reruns, old movies, etc.)?    As for being 'digital', the DirecTV signal is already a digital signal.


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

DTSDude said:


> How's it giong to support multi-room if the box isn't on a local network? The only officially mentioned functionality has been Season pass, Wishlist, and suggestions.


I have no idea why people keep assuming this.



SullyND said:


> _TiVo Press Release_
> 3/15/2005
> Comcast and TiVo Announce Strategic Partnership
> Multi-Year Agreement to Make the TiVo Service Available to Comcast Customers
> ...


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> There is 100% ZERO plans to convert the MPEG-2 SD to anything else.
> 
> As that would require the "free" swap out of nearly 50,000,000 receivers
> 
> ...


I don't doubt the zero plans, but let's see...

The local broadcasters don't want cable companies to downvert HD to analog SD. They _may_ not want D* and E* to downvert HD content to SD digital (even if hooking an SD TV to an HD receiver is the same thing). Or, D* and E* may not want to continue carrying two versions of the same content for 1,600 channels. In either case D* and E* customers will need an HD receiver to get local channels. D* can simply blame it on the TV stations and wait until enough folks pay to swap out older SD receivers for newer HD receivers and then swap out the rest for free.

As the economics of scale factor into D*'s HD receivers, I expect D* to discontinue sales of SD receivers by Feb 09 and probably earlier.

Of course no one knows what Congress and the FCC will do, especially Congress and the FCC.


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## WinstonSmith (Feb 1, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> DirecTV has already announced that all MPEG-2 HD provided by SAT will be converted to MPEG-4. They are swapping out equipment to MPEG-4 compatible equipment.
> 
> However, there is no "TiVo" powered MPEG-4 HD DVR, there is just the HR20.


Any idea when the current mpeg2 HD channels will be converted to mpeg4, thus making the HD-TiVo worthless?


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

Any idea when the current mpeg2 HD channels will be converted to mpeg4, thus making the HD-TiVo worthless? 


As locals are rolled out around the country, D* is replacing HD receivers with mpeg4 capable receivers. D* says that they will be carrying HD locals almost everywhere with the launch of two new satellites in 2007. However, the head of the local CBS station says our HD locals won't be carried until late 2008, so I would imagine D* will complete local HD carriage in late 2008 or early 2009, corresponding with the turnoff of analog broadcast TV. This would be a likely time to swap out remaining HD receivers convert HD national channels to mpeg4.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Most indications are that 2007 DirecTV is going to be VERY aggressive in the HD Receiver swap out (to replace MPEG-2 with MPEG-4 compatible systems).

I would not be surprised if they switch off MPEG-2 HD by the end of 2007.

There are 2 or 3 HD channels on the 101 alone, so if they do shut it down, it opens space for 12-18 more SD neworks.


There are at least four pieces to the HD-Local coverage:

1) Carrier agreements (the legal junk)
2) Network/Affiliate communication to DirecTV
3) DirecTV capacity (read... sats) to transmit to customers
4) Customers have the MPEG-4 receivers.

It is very possible that your CBS may not be till 2008... but the reason behind it would be intresting... As DirecTV is scheduled to launch the two sats in 2007.

Even after that swap, your HR10-250 will still work for the SD-MPEG2 signal (ther has been no statements made if they ever plan to convert the SD), and OTA Digital


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

ebonovic said:


> ...
> There are 2 or 3 HD channels on the 101 alone, so if they do shut it down, it opens space for 12-18 more SD neworks.
> ...


plus when they have all the locals in HD, they can think about pulling the SD CBS/NBC/ABC/Fox east/west feeds (or maybe one coast) and shift the HD versions to MPEG4. More room for more channels (boo!) or better SD feeds (ie restore the circa 2001 PQ) (yeah!) or less HD downrezzing (Yeah!).


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## PRMan (Jul 26, 2000)

Ha, ha, ha.

Less downrezzing...better picture quality...that's a good one....


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## Mako (Sep 22, 2002)

DTSDude said:


> How's it giong to support multi-room if the box isn't on a local network? The only officially mentioned functionality has been Season pass, Wishlist, and suggestions.


Who says it wont have network connectivity? I have not seen specs, but for the sake of argument, lets assume it does not have an Ethernet jack. If you have 2 of these boxes on a cable hookup, they can share data via the cable connection. Cable boxes are all going to have DOCSIS compatible connections very soon. It would not suprise me in the least if this device is the same.


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

PRMan said:


> Ha, ha, ha.
> 
> Less downrezzing...better picture quality...that's a good one....


Yeah, I know.

I was being hopeful for those still with D*. I left last August when I could no longer stomach the PQ of SD channels, especially the locals.

Every few months since they call me to sign up again and I have to tell them about the abysmal SD PQ on my 42" EDTV plasma. They keep saying how everyone loves their PQ.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

bkdtv said:


> Note the "speed" was a function of the processor in the box, its memory, and its disk interface. The Series3 reportedly is much faster, which would suggest that it has a much faster processor as well.


The TiVo has not been CPU bound, it has always been I/O bound. When doing video I/O it locks the whole IDE bus. Just because the Series 3 is fast does not mean it has a faster CPU.


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## WinstonSmith (Feb 1, 2004)

vstone said:


> with the launch of two new satellites in 2007.


So thats going to make it even more difficult for most people to get all the sats with one dish... excellent.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

WinstonSmith said:


> So thats going to make it even more difficult for most people to get all the sats with one dish... excellent.


Not really. It all depends on the orbital slot the new satellites go in.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

Mako said:


> Who says it wont have network connectivity? I have not seen specs, but for the sake of argument, lets assume it does not have an Ethernet jack. If you have 2 of these boxes on a cable hookup, they can share data via the cable connection. Cable boxes are all going to have DOCSIS compatible connections very soon. It would not suprise me in the least if this device is the same.


Fios is doing this stuff now with their Home Media DVR which is based on similar model Motorola QIP boxes, just different software. I would guess they are networking over the Coax, because that's how VOD and Guide data gets to their receivers via a bridge they connect between the video (coax) and the Fios Internet connection (cat5). I see no reason that Comcast+Tivo couldn't do the same...just bridge the coax into your home network via Cat5 or WiFi... Of course that requires a knowledgable home user to set it up, or a visit from Comcast to install it.

-h


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> Fios is doing this stuff now with their Home Media DVR which is based on similar model Motorola QIP boxes, just different software. I would guess they are networking over the Coax, because that's how VOD and Guide data gets to their receivers via a bridge they connect between the video (coax) and the Fios Internet connection (cat5). I see no reason that Comcast+Tivo couldn't do the same..


FiOS uses the QIP series, which is the IPTV version of Motorola's set-top box lineup with built-in MoCA (networking over coax). The standard DCT boxes used by Comcast do not have MoCA.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> FiOS uses the QIP series, which is the IPTV version of Motorola's set-top box lineup with built-in MoCA (networking over coax). The standard DCT boxes used by Comcast do not have MoCA.


hmm... no MoCA eh? Quick call Starbux.

Also I remember reading that the Tivo upgrade will just be a software-update that you could choose to get from Comcast and then pay the added fee... No mention of any additional hardware that would seemingly be required to connect it to your home network.

Do the standard Comcast DVRs have USB ports? Perhaps the Comcast-Tivo software will actiavte a USB Port, and then you have to get the USB-WiFi adapter from Tivo to get the HMO features ($59.95 from http://www.tivo.com/2.7.1.asp ). I think this is how the first HMO feature upgrades worked with Tivo SA boxes, so would sorta make sense...and make extra $$ for Tivo beyond the added subscription fee.

-h


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## bkdtv (Jan 9, 2003)

> Do the standard Comcast DVRs have USB ports?


Yes, they do.


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## harley3k (Jul 19, 2006)

bkdtv said:


> Yes, they do.


I bet the USB-WiFi or Ethernet adapter is what they're planning to do then.
Not all Tivo subscribers will be interested in the HMO and Internet content options, so the USB adapter will be part of this option if people want it.

And kudos to Comcast/Cox and Tivo if they do this... Then if HR10-250 DirecTivo owners don't at least get the 6.3 update (with folders and performance fixes) it'll really make D* look bad or err worse!

-h


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## SullyND (Dec 30, 2004)

Mako said:


> Who says it wont have network connectivity? I have not seen specs, but for the sake of argument, lets assume it does not have an Ethernet jack.


Eh. The 6412 has an ethernet jack. "Full range of interfaces including YpbPr, DVI, 1394, USB, Ethernet, SPDIF, Smartcard1>, and more"


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

Mark Lopez said:


> Huh?  So you are saying no one is going to broadcast anything that wasn't shot in HD (i.e. no reruns, old movies, etc.)?    As for being 'digital', the DirecTV signal is already a digital signal.


I have seen you post. You are not dumb, so don't be pedantic.

Clearly you realize that I meant that very few outlets will still be broadcasting in NTSC. Any outlet with any sort of viewership is going to be broadcasting in some sort of ATSC flavor, and most of those will be HDTV.

Obviously, SD content will still be widely broadcast. It just so happens that its delivery mechanism will be 'HD'.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

rminsk said:


> The TiVo has not been CPU bound, it has always been I/O bound. When doing video I/O it locks the whole IDE bus. Just because the Series 3 is fast does not mean it has a faster CPU.


Link?

2 x full bandwidth ATSC feed = 4.8MBps. IDE66 bus > an order of magnitude faster. IDE33 bus ~7 times faster.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Link?
> 
> 2 x full bandwidth ATSC feed = 4.8MBps. IDE66 bus > an order of magnitude faster. IDE33 bus ~7 times faster.


It does not matter what the bus speeds are. What matters is how the TiVo uses the bus. http://www.9thtee.com/TiVoCacheCardFAQ.htm


> The v1 cachecard plugged into the IDE cable - the design does work. I proved that much of the benefit comes from allowing the tivo to make forward progress while the harddrives are seeking to read/write video data (full-length write seek is usually about 26ms on your "9ms" drive). The way that IDE works on a Tivo is the bus is tied up for the duration of the seek plus read/write so if you get a cache miss (ie video) then the tivo can't make forward progress for up to 26ms.
> ...
> It turned out that a TiVo doesn't go anywhere as fast as the IDE standard allows for non-DMA transactions, every transactions is buffered through the ASIC on the board, and the IDE bus is only 16-bit wide.


The non-video database must be read/written between the video I/O.


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## Mako (Sep 22, 2002)

harley3k said:


> Fios is doing this stuff now with their Home Media DVR which is based on similar model Motorola QIP boxes, just different software. I would guess they are networking over the Coax, because that's how VOD and Guide data gets to their receivers via a bridge they connect between the video (coax) and the Fios Internet connection (cat5). I see no reason that Comcast+Tivo couldn't do the same...just bridge the coax into your home network via Cat5 or WiFi... Of course that requires a knowledgable home user to set it up, or a visit from Comcast to install it.
> 
> -h


Actually if the cable box has a DOCSIS device in it for data, which all the new ones will (and maybe the TiVo one will too), there will be no user intervention required. It will be plugged in and provisioned on the network to exchange data with partners at the same home address (3 in the house could all talk to each other) over coax.


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## SpankyInChicago (May 13, 2005)

rminsk said:


> It does not matter what the bus speeds are. What matters is how the TiVo uses the bus. http://www.9thtee.com/TiVoCacheCardFAQ.htm


Interesting. I thought Tivo was being wise and depending on Linux to handle mundane stuff like this.

Seems like more poor software design from Tivo.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

SpankyInChicago said:


> Interesting. I thought Tivo was being wise and depending on Linux to handle mundane stuff like this.
> 
> Seems like more poor software design from Tivo.


They modified the linux kernel to do this. This way they can guaranty video I/O will complete in a timely fashion on low end hardware.


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## sriggins (Feb 21, 2005)

fastep said:


> Before you spend extra $$, try the moto software. It does everything tivo does except wish lists and suggestions. It has much faster guides and search capabilities and allows for much easier access to the "favorites" guide. It also allows for your show to continue in the background while you access guides\playing list. The moto also has native passthrough.
> 
> I think tivo is good but needs some "tweaks" to make it more efficient. If speed is not important and suggestions & wishlists are, then you may want to spend the extra money.


bwhahahahaah! I used tivos/direct tivos from day 1 until this jan when I was forced onto comcast's HD DVR. What a joke. Its a mess. Tivo is plenty better, with the exception being I like that I can watch shows in the guide. Of course, comcrap has started experimenting with clickable ads in the guide......... ugh


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## fastep (May 22, 2004)

sriggins said:


> bwhahahahaah! I used tivos/direct tivos from day 1 until this jan when I was forced onto comcast's HD DVR. What a joke. Its a mess. Tivo is plenty better, with the exception being I like that I can watch shows in the guide. Of course, comcrap has started experimenting with clickable ads in the guide......... ugh


I guess it depends on location and / or signal problems. In my area the dvr performs extremely well since replacing all my existing coax runs.

I also discovered that if the unit is powered off, it will become somewhat unstable. In addition, I unplug the firewire cable from the unit when not in use as this seems to cause ff/rew speed issues. I only connect it to record hd shows from the moto to my laptop or rca2160 then immediately disconnect it to avoid rebooting the moto.

I have not seen ads in the guides but as long as it doesn't interfere with the current guide config, I don't think it will bother me. I'm assuming comcast will just replace the two ad boxes that contain the TV Guide logo with other ads.

The biggest problem I had when I first switched was that the moto would record all shows in a season pass even if I specified "first runs only". That problem seemed to have been resolved with the last software update (12.31) a couple of months ago.

Other than hdd capacity, no tick marks in recordings, no caller ID and no search by actor feature, I am extremely satisfied with the moto6412 III.

The speed to find shows and set up recordings alone was worth the switch. Increased content and pq were just added "bonuses".


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