# Who believes HDtivos will be turned off after the new dvr is out? (new rumor)



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

On avs a few folks have said that directv will be turning off the HDtivos and sending out dvrs for us when they are available. (said 2 of 3 CSRs told him so) They said this will not be a choice and that we will be mandated to use the new dvrs and cant use our HDtivo.

I obviously can't believe we would be forced to discontinue using hdtivo. If we want a free upgrade, sure. But if we are happy to use HDtivo for SD dtv and OTA I dont believe they really will turn off our boxes. If i want all the new HD stuff, that's my responsibility to get a new receiver at my cost if i turn down their free upgrade. 

Since Dan, Earl and those in the know say the HDtivo 6.2 is 'virtually certain' , can it be possible that they would upgrade a box then turn it off within a year? I dont see what sense that would make. I think the 2 events must be mutually exclusive. 

Also, since the new tivo agreement is 3 years, why would DTV even have made it if they were gonna turn off the HDtivos?


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## pudge44 (Dec 5, 2002)

No way this happens. The new agreement with Tivo was specifically to support legacy DTivos with program guide data for the years to come. My guess is your current HD DTivo will die of old age before DTV mandates a replacement.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

My guess is that it could happen. Sure DirecTV extended the TiVo contract, but that could be for just he SD units and not the HD units. Heck, I understand the HD units don't even have 6.2. I can easily see where DirecTV would like to eliminate HD in MPEG-2, and use MPEG-4 instead, cramming more (very compressed) HD channels into the same bandwidth. This is all speculation, of course, but it does seem like something DirecTV would do.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

but why force the issue for people, like me (though I agree we may be in the minority), that are happy with SD dtv and OTA HD? Offer me a one time free replacement, if i refuse, then i'll have to pay for the mpeg4 dvr when sci fi etc become HD. DTV keeps good will and also keeps 2 old boxes running and gets the sub fees from them as well as if i have to buy a new dvr for 400 bucks. 

I (and a lot of others) have spend $$ on boxes plus upgrades. Forcing us to literally make them doorstops would be a hard pill to swallow. Now encouraging us..(putting great HD mpeg4) is a different story.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

Newsposter---I'm definitely in agreement with you, and would hate to have one of those made into a doorstop...but in the last year, since the News Corp. takeover, the rate of greediness of DirecTV has increased.

Look at some of the other policies they've instituted. And I don't expect that rate will decline. Plus, if they really wanted to encourage us, I could think of so many ways they could now, like a better HD package...want bandwidth, get rid of the a few shopping channels...lower the price on the HD DirecTiVo to encourage more units out there, etc.

Personally, I think DirecTV has now positioned themselves close to what we were forced to do with the cable company. And the quality of DirecTV has decreased a lot over the past ten years...all while technology has improved. If I were to bet, I'd bet that growth in satellite TV will suffer in the transition to HD. I hope I'm wrong, but personally, I know I will be going back to cable in a month or two, after having been a DirecTV customer for 10 years. I went through the inconsistent princing "Let's Make A Deal" for a HD DirecTiVo and got nowhere. Then they went to the lease program, and it's $400+ no matter what. Forget it. Life's to short to play their game, and get inferior quality and programming.

There are plenty of example where as businesses grow, they forget what got them there, and then they start to fail. I think DirecTV is now trending towards that. Not sure about E*.

[Rant=/Off]


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Not a chance. IMHO.

There is no "upside" to it.. not a single one.

They "may" turn of the MPEG-2 HD feeds... but that is a far cry from turning off the HR10-250s.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Wow, if they did this, there's zero reason for me to stay with DirecTV. My investment in my other SD Tivo's is small enough to toss.

As much as I hate cable, this would make me hate DirecTV more.

They'd probably lose 50%+ of their HD Tivo customers, which are their highest value, lowest churn customers. 

(And to the guy that owes me like a case of soda - the upside for DirecTV is to stop supporting the HD Tivo, and only support their HD DVR. They have been consistently moving to reduce support costs. IMO, they have been consistently doing this at the expense of customers. The R15 has got to cost them more to support than any SD Tivo.)

Dumb dumb move if they do this.


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## HomieG (Feb 17, 2003)

ebonovic said:


> Not a chance. IMHO.
> 
> There is no "upside" to it.. not a single one.
> 
> They "may" turn of the MPEG-2 HD feeds... but that is a far cry from turning off the HR10-250s.


I guess I misunderstood newsposters original message. It appears he'd be content with a no-HD HR10-250.

Besides recording SD and ATSC-OTA, what good is an HR10-250 if they turn off the MPEG-2 HD feeds?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

Here's the relevant post on AVS Forum.


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## 483 (Feb 10, 2000)

Thanks so much for the link. I guess this is where my 10 year ride with D* ends. I am not going away from TiVo. 

I guess I will dump my HR10-250 on eBay and switch to cable. No upfront costs.

It is getting to expensive to "own" stuff I don't own.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> (And to the guy that owes me like a case of soda - the upside for DirecTV is to stop supporting the HD Tivo, and only support their HD DVR. They have been consistently moving to reduce support costs. IMO, they have been consistently doing this at the expense of customers. The R15 has got to cost them more to support than any SD Tivo.)


How did we get to a Case ?

I thought the only one that has been resolved was the release date of the R15?, or was it the level of bug fixes by February... either way, I knew I lost that one.... but it was only a can...

The Series 3 release and the HR20 release still hasn't panned out

And I am not sure if we put a wager out on if the 6.2 for the HR10



But the TiVos don't "require" much support.... (  ) so will the savings be worth all the negative that would go along with that.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

HomieG said:


> I guess I misunderstood newsposters original message. It appears he'd be content with a no-HD HR10-250.
> 
> Besides recording SD and ATSC-OTA, what good is an HR10-250 if they turn off the MPEG-2 HD feeds?


Correct, I only get SHO and HBO in HD thru DTV so while it would suck losing those 2 channels, I could deal with it. A huge portion of HD for me is OTA so give me SD dtv and OTA tivo and I'm happy. Also, a lot of you probably have more invested than me but I have about 1K in total investment here. Just can't give that to dtv for their new 'free' dvr. If they cant be expanded etc, it will put a serious crimp in our recording time had we just traded both tivos in for them.

When sci fi/fx/ etc become HD mpeg4, I'll pay 400 for a new dvr and they will make more money off of me because i wont do the free swapout because I"ll want my HDtivos. That should make them happy.

All told I'm going on the assumption that the new HDdvr wont be tivo (which is a certainty) and that it will have the platform of the R15, which admittedly I've only read weaknees comparison in depth to compare the r15 and r10. But if what they wrote is true, that's enough to make me stay with tivo. Period. I value the OS of tivo and so does my wife. I'd have to buy a component switcher to add another HD input to my TV for the new dvr, but setting up one more box really isn't a big deal since we already have 2 stacked.

It's nice to see the people on this board are more in line with my logic  Those other ones appear to be taking DTV at their word (the phone calls)....guess they didn't learn yet  Plus the one guy was saying they will update them until turnoff and wow...didn't make sense at all to update 6.2 knowing they would turn off the box in a year.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

HomieG said:


> I guess I misunderstood newsposters original message. It appears he'd be content with a no-HD HR10-250.
> 
> Besides recording SD and ATSC-OTA, what good is an HR10-250 if they turn off the MPEG-2 HD feeds?


For those of us with good OTA ATSC, since 75%-90% of what is generally recorded is networks, that alone is a good reason to keep the HR10.

If I could kill DirecTV and turn my HR10 into an OTA-only DVR, I'd seriously consider it.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling"!

Apart from the fact that this is all CSR rumor and should be taken with a grain of salt anyway, what I am seeing is that D* eventually want to switch off the NY & LA feeds within a couple of years. This means that ALL local feeds will be MPEG-4, which makes sense.

This can only be good news as it frees up a lot of bandwidth for more HD programming. As for "forcing" upgrades, that is essentially what's available to the other DMAs that have a HD option - get an H10 (or wait for the H20) to get local HD programming. I could see D* offering a free upgrade to those who own an H10 to encourage use of the new MPEG-4 channels, but I hope (and this is speculation) you could hold on to the H10 as an OTA and SD DVR for a fee.

This post contains my thoughts of the situation and is not based on fact in any way. Therefore it is probably MORE reliable than anything you'll hear from a CSR!


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Here is the explaination that I was just given:

There are *NO-PLANS* to turn off the HR10-250s or any other boxes.

However... HD on DirecTV will eventually be 100% MPEG4.. thus there will be a gradual lost of HD content for the MPEG-2 only equipment.

DirecTV is offering the upgrade path to customers. You CAN refuse the upgrade. 
If a customer does refuse the upgrade, then as you would expect.. they would not be able to recieve MPEG-4 signals, and thus not have access to the SAT based HD material

Okay... my $0.03 additional
As we get closer to the HR20 release, rumors and mis-interpreted communications are going to be going nuts......

All I ask of the forum members (here at dbstalk) is that we keep our heads on straight, and try to think and discuss logically and keep the rumor mill to a minimum....

And at points when you are "speculating" or repeating what is a rumor, please state that... so the next person doesn't take that as "fact"


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## Mark W (Dec 6, 2001)

Has there been any information that has leaked out about the HR20? All I have heard is that it is based off of the R15 code. Any information on specs yet? HD size? Dual watchable buffers? OTA tuners? anything?


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

I sure hope they do not try to force me to give up 2 receivers I paid for and make me pay a fee and then lease receivers. That would make me have to consider going to cable and would be 2 giant marks against D*.

I suppose if I had to I could get one of the new HD DVRs and use that to record sat stuff and use the HD TiVo to record OTA, but that would certainly not be my first choice.

Now, if the HD DVR actually worked well and there were compelling features like MRV available, that would be a mark in teh pro column for them. Who know if any of that will happen though.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

I speculate that Earl is correct because it benefits me and is also very logical.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Lee L said:


> I sure hope they do not try to force me to give up 2 receivers I paid for and make me pay a fee and then lease receivers. That would make me have to consider going to cable and would be 2 giant marks against D*.
> 
> I suppose if I had to I could get one of the new HD DVRs and use that to record sat stuff and use the HD TiVo to record OTA, but that would certainly not be my first choice.
> 
> .


Well, even pessimist me believes you will be offered a free/low cost swap if you want to ditch the HDtivo for mpeg4. So that's a moot issue as far as i'm concerned. I dont believe in any case you will have to pay 400 for a new box as long as you trade in the old.

It's nice to see someone else thinking like me...Hdtivo for OTA, new one for Sci fi HD...I'd have no problem doing that. Happy balance for everyone.


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## convbcuda (Apr 21, 2004)

Well, it's been many years since they stopped selling UltimateTV receivers, and they haven't cancelled that service.

I hope the new HDDVR is a lot faster than this pathetic HD Tivo. I could time it with a sundial when I set a recording.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Ultimate is indeed a good example of supporting an ancient box. HDtivo is most certainly a "bit" better than UTV


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

One reason that would justify them swapping them all out is to allow them to move ALL HD content to mpeg4. That would free up a ton of bandwidth for more non HD channels for the non-HD masses.

You could refuse the offer of course but you would no longer get HD except for OTA channels.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> One reason that would justify them swapping them all out is to allow them to move ALL HD content to mpeg4. That would free up a ton of bandwidth for more non HD channels for the non-HD masses.
> 
> You could refuse the offer of course but you would no longer get HD except for OTA channels.


That's all I get right now! 

Anyone who believes D* will "turn off" HD TiVos when their HR20 is finally rolled out needs to have their head checked!!


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## stim (Jan 10, 2002)

I really don't think that they would make you replace a receiver that you purchased. However, I could see them making you replace a "leased" receiver, like I have.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

stim said:


> I really don't think that they would make you replace a receiver that you purchased. However, I could see them making you replace a "leased" receiver, like I have.


If you believe this, I have some land in Florida I'd like to sell you!


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I don't think its a question of them making you replace it. If there is no HD content offered in mpeg2 then it would no longer server any purpose for me. I would NEED a new DVR that could record mpeg4 at that point. The whole reason I bought my HR10's was to record HD.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> If there is no HD content offered in mpeg2 [from D*] then it would no longer serve any purpose for me.


So you can't get HD OTA?


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

newsposter said:


> I speculate that Earl is correct because it benefits me and is also very logical.


Given his ongoing missionary role here for DirecTV, I'd be amazed if they weren't feeding him correct information.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

STL said:


> So you can't get HD OTA?


Even if I could get OTA HD, I can't get ESPN, HBO, Discovery, etc. OTA. If I can't record all my HD channels then it's a door stop. I will need a new DVR and there is no point in paying to keep two of them if one only does OTA HD.


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

As I stated in a post in the related AVS Forum thread, I believe the upcoming HD TiVo software update was triggered by the need for new functionality in the HD TiVo to recognize some new indicator in the program/channel guide data that identifies MPEG-4 versus MPEG-2. The HD TiVo must somehow ignore the MPEG-4 offerings.

Pure speculation on my part, but think about it.

Now, hopefully we will still get some 6.x equivalent functionality and improvements in the same software update. But, DirecTV has not promised anything about the content of this software update.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Budget_HT said:


> As I stated in a post in the related AVS Forum thread, I believe the upcoming HD TiVo software update was triggered by the need for new functionality in the HD TiVo to recognize some new indicator in the program/channel guide data that identifies MPEG-4 versus MPEG-2. The HD TiVo must somehow ignore the MPEG-4 offerings.
> 
> Pure speculation on my part, but think about it.
> 
> Now, hopefully we will still get some 6.x equivalent functionality and improvements in the same software update. But, DirecTV has not promised anything about the content of this software update.


Unnecessary.

If you can't see the sat, you don't get the guide. Since the HD Tivo won't ever see the sats that will be carrying MPEG-4 stuff, it has nothing to ignore.

Unless they start beaming MPEG-4 from the current 101/110/119 sats.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> I don't think its a question of them making you replace it. If there is no HD content offered in mpeg2 then it would no longer server any purpose for me. I would NEED a new DVR that could record mpeg4 at that point. The whole reason I bought my HR10's was to record HD.


100% of OTA ATSC is MPEG-2. That's not going to change no matter what DirecTV does.

Those of us they get good OTA ATSC (and you haven't said if you do, but I'm guessing you do), will still be able to record OTA ATSC even with no MPEG-2 HD from DirecTV.

And the vast majority of HD content is from the local networks.

Ergo, the vast majority of HD available for recording is available OTA in MPEG-2, which the HD Tivo will continue to be able to record.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

AbMagFab said:


> 100% of OTA ATSC is MPEG-2. That's not going to change no matter what DirecTV does.
> 
> Those of us they get good OTA ATSC (and you haven't said if you do, but I'm guessing you do), will still be able to record OTA ATSC even with no MPEG-2 HD from DirecTV.
> 
> ...


As long as DirecTV continues to supply a compatible guide.
Since the current guide is still compatible with "Ultimate TV", I don't see them changing it,
and if they do, you would think there would be a software upgrade so the TiVo software can still access it, heck, they could even make them need to dial in to get a compatible guide, I wouldn't mind.

phox


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

HiDefGator said:


> Even if I could get OTA HD, I can't get ESPN, HBO, Discovery, etc. OTA. If I can't record all my HD channels then it's a door stop. I will need a new DVR and there is no point in paying to keep two of them if one only does OTA HD.


Just curious since you said it wouldn't serve _any_ purpose.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

AbMagFab said:


> And the vast majority of HD content is from the local networks.


Bingo.



phox_mulder said:


> As long as DirecTV continues to supply a compatible guide.


I thought the OTA guide info was part of the digital OTA signal and not from DirecTV.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Unnecessary.
> 
> Unless they start beaming MPEG-4 from the current 101/110/119 sats.


And technically, there is no reason they could not do that.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

STL said:


> Bingo.
> 
> I thought the OTA guide info was part of the digital OTA signal and not from DirecTV.


Not as far as I know.

Fer Instance: Station I work at has generic info for daily Dr. Phil episodes,
"The Doctor gives self help advice and strategies for a healthy life",
this info repeates itself for all upcoming Dr. Phil's.

HR10-250 guide has specific topics, like today's 
"Dr. Phil (Talk / Tabloid) The doctor sets up a sting to uncover a sexual predator on the Internet. TV-PG CC Stereo",
same as zap2it.com, which leads one to believe it is coming from DirecTV.

The only thing that comes from the local stations is the remapping, I.E channel 2-1 instead of 36.

phox


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

STL said:


> I thought the OTA guide info was part of the digital OTA signal and not from DirecTV.


Just the bare basic guide information is there. Not enough for TiVo to do it's work.


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

Lee L said:


> And technically, there is no reason they could not do that.


Is that totally true? Seems like a waste, since they have tons of bandwidth on the new satellites, and all MPEG-4 receivers can use the new sats. But they're strapped on the old sats, and none of the MPEG-2 receivers can do MPEG-4.

Would seem like a dumb move for them to do this, with zero upside.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

AbMagFab said:


> Is that totally true? Seems like a waste, since they have tons of bandwidth on the new satellites, and all MPEG-4 receivers can use the new sats. But they're strapped on the old sats, and none of the MPEG-2 receivers can do MPEG-4.
> 
> Would seem like a dumb move for them to do this, with zero upside.


The only reason why i could see them do that, is if they have a delay with upgrading all the dishes out there... as that definently takes more time, then just haveing the "fed-ex" guy drop of a new reciever.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> 100% of OTA ATSC is MPEG-2. That's not going to change no matter what DirecTV does...


Actually, that will change. Can you say "MovieBeam"? There are a number of plans for adding non-MPEG-2 video services to existing DT. But, it is unlikely that the main net programming will ever migrate away from MPEG-2.

And here's a worst-case scenario to chew on. Let's say Rupert gets Alzheimers and starts to think that killing the HR10 is a good business practice, and refuses to continue to authorize them even for OTA. If that should come to pass, there is no reason that the HR10, now abandoned by DTV, could not be authorized over the modem by Tivo as a OTA standalone. Call Tivo, arrange for payment, they hit your box, and you're back in business. IOW, Rupert can go as crazy as he likes, and your HR10 will not necessarily become a boat anchor.


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## bldxyz (Feb 8, 2002)

I'm skeptical that they would take on all that cost at once. (That is, the cost of distributing new DVRs to all the customers who have them).

A more likely scenario, by my thinking, is that they will offer an inexpensive (or free) upgrade path before or at the time that they start to *take away* HD content (that is, turn MPEG-2 content into MPEG-4 content).

Customer furor is why: I am getting my HD Tivo on Sunday, and there is a significant cost in equipment, an installer coming out for the new dish, and a two year commitment. If six months later, they tell me that the equipment they sold me has to be exchanged, I would scream bloody murder that I didn't buy a non-Tivo system, they better give me a full refund on the hardware and they have just lost a customer of 4 years. They might be in the legal right, but they won't win the PR battle when the Tivo Loyalists demand out of their contracts and out of their hardware when D* tells them to dump it.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> 100% of OTA ATSC is MPEG-2. That's not going to change no matter what DirecTV does.
> 
> Those of us they get good OTA ATSC (and you haven't said if you do, but I'm guessing you do), will still be able to record OTA ATSC even with no MPEG-2 HD from DirecTV.
> 
> ...


I fail to see your point. What good does it do me to have a DVR that records the "vast majority of HD content" ? If it can't record college football in HD on espn then I need an adidtional DVR that can. If I have the additional DVR then why keep the current one that (in theory) can only do HD in OTA now? The moment it can only do OTA HD it's history. And to answer the burning question, I could get OTA, but only two of the major networks. That isn't going to make me happy when I'm use to roughly a dozen recordable HD channels today.


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## tbeckner (Oct 26, 2001)

newsposter said:


> On avs a few folks have said that directv will be turning off the HDtivos and sending out dvrs for us when they are available.


I hate to say it, but did you ask them what they where smoking?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> I fail to see your point. What good does it do me to have a DVR that records the "vast majority of HD content" ? If it can't record college football in HD on espn then I need an adidtional DVR that can. If I have the additional DVR then why keep the current one that (in theory) can only do HD in OTA now? The moment it can only do OTA HD it's history. And to answer the burning question, I could get OTA, but only two of the major networks. That isn't going to make me happy when I'm use to roughly a dozen recordable HD channels today.


You said previously: "it would no longer server any purpose"

It would serve some purpose, it could still record OTA HD. And while you seem to have an extremely hard line, many others would be happy with just OTA HD recording.

Just responding to your original statement, which was overly black-and-white.


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## convbcuda (Apr 21, 2004)

newsposter said:


> Ultimate is indeed a good example of supporting an ancient box. HDtivo is most certainly a "bit" better than UTV


If my UltimateTV receivers could record HD, my HDTivos would be on eBay.

Please Wait...

Please Wait...

Please Wait...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

tbeckner said:


> I hate to say it, but did you ask them what they where smoking?


well they obviously aren't as smart as the people on here  -which is why i wanted some feedback here-. Also, I know that the people on here know me better and would take the chance to tell me i'm nuts (not that you need an excuse) if this plan was indeed true, or even logical, and not false as I suspected it was 

And they actually believed a CSR (their true downfall). Even 2 out of 3 isn't that good of odds in my opinion.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

AbMagFab said:


> You said previously: "it would no longer server any purpose"
> 
> It would serve some purpose, it could still record OTA HD. And while you seem to have an extremely hard line, many others would be happy with just OTA HD recording.
> .


count me in! I can't see how anyone with a HDtivo (you obviously aren't a cheapo if you have one) would balk at 5 measly bucks a month to record OTA? Of course if you dont get OTA or NEVER watch OTA i understand. But even 1-2 programs a week would be worth the pristine pic compared to SD right? 



convbcuda said:


> If my UltimateTV receivers could record HD, my HDTivos would be on eBay.


you just jogged my memory. Before i got directv, i asked a friend to see her tivo (she's not that technical). When i got there, i found it it was really ultimate tv. She said tivo was pretty much the same. I said, cool, and bought my T60. Obviously I was thrilled that it appeared to do a bit more and also had the tivo guy! (the true selling point for me)


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

ebonovic said:


> Just the bare basic guide information is there. Not enough for TiVo to do it's work.


That's right...


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

convbcuda said:


> If my UltimateTV receivers could record HD, my HDTivos would be on eBay.


And if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butts so much.


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## STL (Feb 10, 2005)

AbMagFab said:


> Just responding to your original statement, which was overly black-and-white.


That's the same point I was trying to allude to him.

Last time I checked ESPN HD, it seemed like 90% of their content (that I cared about) was just upconverted and not true HD anyhow.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I was overly black and white because to me that's the way I see it. Imagine if I had one HD TV in my house and I never watch or record OTA. I can get everything that is available OTA and more through D* in HD today. 

If my HR10 suddenly couldn't do HD from D*, then I would buy a new DVR that did do HD through D*. Yes the old HR10 could do OTA but it would have no value to me since everything I could get OTA I would already have available through D* on the new DVR.

I could sell it to someone to use as an SD DVR that also happens to record OTA HD. I just don't agree with the suggestion that the vast majority of HD is available OTA. The last time I checked I couldn't get NBC, CBS, TNT, UHD, HBO, SHO, ESPN, ESPN2, (I'm sure I left out a few) OTA. But I do get all these in HD today and can record them today.

If you don't watch any of these channels then you may not notice the difference if they moved all HD to Mpeg4. But then I would have to wonder why you spent the bucks on an HD TV and DVR in the first place.


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## chris_h (Dec 17, 2003)

AVS thread executive summary: In the absense of any official word from Directv, the best thing to do is panic. The sky is falling on our HD-Tivos.


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## nsdp (Jun 4, 2002)

There are some legal hurdles that would make a nice class action suit for a few of us that are old subscribers from back in the days of USSB. the acquisition of USSB and therefore HBO,Showtime Cinemax and Movie channels is conditioned on several stipulations. I still have my old Sony A2 in a guest bedroom. Directv still has the obligation to maintain that service and they cannot switch my equipment. I wound up with a discussion with the Directv people wanting to hang a two year service commitment on me when I bought my Hr10-250. I went round and round with the customer service people. Got nowhere then was refered to the executive offices which screens calls like mine. and no satisfaction there. Since I retired from the Federal Public defender's Office , I knew that the officers direct numbers are on file with the FCC on the License applications. Got the general counsels' office and after a nice chat with them about the old USSB consent order which no one there knew anything about was told that they would get back to me.. Two days later one of their lawyers called me back and (he was obviously put out since he apprarently had had to go research the USSB consent order) agreed that they could not impose an new contract commitment on me since I had maintained service with Kerrville Telephone co./ I don't remember the next one/ Pegasus /Directv. So there is a potential for a nice class action suit by the OLD customers who had USSB service. It does not allow Directv to "amend alter or otherwise modify the service" of USSB customers as long as they are customers of Directv. Make Directv squirm because there are a few of us that they will either have to offer a princely sum or maintain the service as Directv promised the FCC. You will just need your old USSB statement(I do I am a packrat) or the cancelled checks showing you paid for service.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

So I guess what I get out of this is that they can't turn off services they provided under USSB? Well, I guess that's good, but how does that help us prevent losing use of a particular STB or PVR, and how does that prevent loss of all HD content on that equipment as well as other content added since the days of USSB? As far as the HR-10 goes, this means nothing as long as they provide a swapout to the new box.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

if they replace your old unit with a new one *at no cost*, i don't think you'd have a leg to stand on, legally.

as far as this proposed forced hardware swap happening anytime soon, that's just crazy talk.

does anybody else remember how long it took them to swap out the HU cards?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

nsdp: obviously you did your research and I have no clue how many others are in your shoes (can prove what you did) but sounds like that info deserves its own thread



joetoronto said:


> does anybody else remember how long it took them to swap out the HU cards?


is that the old football card? I think my b65 came with out and it's around here somewhere. I probably could use it for a nice shim now that i think about it


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

nsdp said:


> There are some legal hurdles that would make a nice class action suit for a few of us that are old subscribers from back in the days of USSB. the acquisition of USSB and therefore HBO,Showtime Cinemax and Movie channels is conditioned on several stipulations. I still have my old Sony A2 in a guest bedroom. Directv still has the obligation to maintain that service and they cannot switch my equipment. I wound up with a discussion with the Directv people wanting to hang a two year service commitment on me when I bought my Hr10-250. I went round and round with the customer service people. Got nowhere then was refered to the executive offices which screens calls like mine. and no satisfaction there. Since I retired from the Federal Public defender's Office , I knew that the officers direct numbers are on file with the FCC on the License applications. Got the general counsels' office and after a nice chat with them about the old USSB consent order which no one there knew anything about was told that they would get back to me.. Two days later one of their lawyers called me back and (he was obviously put out since he apprarently had had to go research the USSB consent order) agreed that they could not impose an new contract commitment on me since I had maintained service with Kerrville Telephone co./ I don't remember the next one/ Pegasus /Directv. So there is a potential for a nice class action suit by the OLD customers who had USSB service. It does not allow Directv to "amend alter or otherwise modify the service" of USSB customers as long as they are customers of Directv. Make Directv squirm because there are a few of us that they will either have to offer a princely sum or maintain the service as Directv promised the FCC. You will just need your old USSB statement(I do I am a packrat) or the cancelled checks showing you paid for service.


Maybe I am missing the point here.

I have not heard or read of any DirecTV plans to alter SD (non-HD) services or equipment. In fact, they have stated that they will not be changing SD programming to MPEG-4 (from MPEG-2) because of the changeout cost of the huge base of SD STBs versus the small bandwidth gains involved.

So, what specifically are you seeing that might be changing that might violate your grandfathered USSB commitments from DirecTV? Were you just addressing the 2-year commitment for certain changes of service or equipment? If the "USSB"-equivalent service you still receive is not altered in any way, how can that prior arrngement affect newer, post-USSB services?

I am not trying to be critical, I just do not understand yet.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

newsposter said:


> nsdp: obviously you did your research and I have no clue how many others are in your shoes (can prove what you did) but sounds like that info deserves its own thread
> 
> is that the old football card? I think my b65 came with out and it's around here somewhere. I probably could use it for a nice shim now that i think about it


what i meant was that since it took them forever to swap out the old HU cards (football cards) for the P4 cards, swapping out hardware has to take them at least as long, i'm thinking even longer.

what do _you_ think, newsposter?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

AbMagFab said:


> Is that totally true? Seems like a waste, since they have tons of bandwidth on the new satellites, and all MPEG-4 receivers can use the new sats. But they're strapped on the old sats, and none of the MPEG-2 receivers can do MPEG-4.
> 
> Would seem like a dumb move for them to do this, with zero upside.


In all likelyhood, all Mpeg4 locals will come from new satellites. Any NEW HD Content will be in MPEG 4 from Current or new satellites. Existing HD channels will be phased out once a majority of people are upgraded to new receivers.

The current HR10's WILL be phased out, the question is when. Probably 2-3 years out (depending of course when the new DVR comes it and how relieable it is...)


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## Budget_HT (Jan 2, 2001)

Adam1115 said:


> ... The current HR10's WILL be phased out, the question is when. Probably 2-3 years out (depending of course when the new DVR comes it and how relieable it is...)


Is this just your opinion or do you have facts that support this?

What does "phased out" mean to you? That they will stop offering new HR10-250's, or that they will shut down existing ones, or ???


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Budget_HT said:


> Is this just your opinion or do you have facts that support this?
> 
> What does "phased out" mean to you? That they will stop offering new HR10-250's, or that they will shut down existing ones, or ???


My opinion.

By phased out I mean, you won't be able to use the HR10 to watch HD. It will still work for SD and OTA in my opinion forever.

They have already said their moving everything to MPEG4, so there will be a day that you will have to get a new one or not be able to get the HD Pack...


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

joetoronto said:


> what do _you_ think, newsposter?


I dont think they would ever force us to give up our HDtivos. Would be a stupid move. If i'm happy with SD and OTA, they should let me be. period


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Budget_HT said:


> Is this just your opinion or do you have facts that support this?
> 
> What does "phased out" mean to you? That they will stop offering new HR10-250's, or that they will shut down existing ones, or ???


IIRC.... They have already stoped building HR10-250s
So that day when "new" ones are available, are already limited.


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

i think directv is doing it backwards. they should switch all the sd channels to mpeg4 and reserve all the freed up bandwitdth for hd in mpeg2 for us hr10-250 lovers 

but seriously, are there any technical reasons in relation to the guide why Direct might have to disable the hd tivo to make mpeg4 work for everyone else? 

i know in terms of numbers Direct can probably sacrifice the minority of hd-tivo owners without blinking if we by some chance are blocking their way.

i have no problems setting up my hd-tivo as a secondary receiver that records nothing but OTA. it would have the added benefit that i can record a lot more ota broadcast shows without hbo and showtime movies taking up disk space.


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## microphony (May 30, 2006)

dito


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

slocko said:


> but seriously, are there any technical reasons in relation to the guide why Direct might have to disable the hd tivo to make mpeg4 work for everyone else?


No, the HR10-250 uses the exact same GUIDE information that the other DTivos use.


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## tivoreno (Apr 18, 2001)

Please correct me if I'm wrong (like you won't  ) but isn't DTV's rational clear: The new MPEG4 sats are all spotbeams, for the purpose of providiong LIL HD. The sats with national coverage are virtually at capacity and are being used today for LA/NY, NFLST, HBO, SHO and several other MPEG2 HD feeds. So in order to increase HD content that has national coverage, they need to replace the existing MPEG2 HD feeds with MPEG4 to free up bandwidth.

Don't get me wrong, I love my HR10-250 too, and will not be happy when it can no longer record HD content from Directv....All I'm saying is I see their motivation.


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

Earl, I was not really referring to the guide information, but more to the way the guide works in conjuction with OTA. 

I may be wrong, but I don't think the regular non HD D* Tivos have integrated OTA capabilities do they?

So there must be special code in the HR10-250 to handle that no? 

The way I see it, if technically there is no reason that the HD-Tivo is preventing Direct from moving to mpeg4, then I don't see why they wouldn't be content to continue receiving revenue from the population that wants to continue using them as OTA and SD recoders.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

IIRC, the new Sats are not "Exclusive" spot beam... I could be wrong with that. Regardless they want to get the HD to MPEG-4 to open up the bandwith regardless which bird it is transmitted on.

Slocko....
Well the Non-DVR HD recievers have integrated OTA, so it should still work fine.
There really is no "rational" reason on why the HR10-250s would be shut down.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

that example of the new receiver is a good one. Just think, today there is a receiver that gets mpeg2 and 4 guide. So no reason that wouldn't continue in the future , thus keeping our hdtivos very happy.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

ebonovic said:


> IIRC, the new Sats are not "Exclusive" spot beam... I could be wrong with that...the Non-DVR HD recievers have integrated OTA, so it should still work fine.
> There really is no "rational" reason on why the HR10-250s would be shut down.


All modern sats are capable of being remapped by telemetry, so that transponder bandwidths, frequencies, and footprints can be customized virtually on the fly. Most commercial entertainment-fare sats are also hybid Ka/Ku of recent or pending launch. It makes sense that the Spaceway Ka sats will eventually totally replace the current Ku sats, so that at some point we can go to Ka-only STBs and also go back to dishes with fewer than 5 heads on them. So, it makes sense that they will also have some CONUS capability enabled.

But Ka, Ku, MPEG-4, MPEG-2, whatever, any sat up there is able to or will be able to carry the independent bitstream carrying the legacy EPG info for current Tivo IRDs for as long as DTV wants.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> All modern sats are capable of being remapped by telemetry, so that transponder bandwidths, frequencies, and footprints can be customized virtually on the fly. Most commercial entertainment-fare sats are also hybid Ka/Ku of recent or pending launch. It makes sense that the Spaceway Ka sats will eventually totally replace the current Ku sats, so that at some point we can go to Ka-only STBs and also go back to dishes with fewer than 5 heads on them. So, it makes sense that they will also have some CONUS capability enabled.
> 
> But Ka, Ku, MPEG-4, MPEG-2, whatever, any sat up there is able to or will be able to carry the independent bitstream carrying the legacy EPG info for current Tivo IRDs for as long as DTV wants.


er ya, that makes sense.


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## robgettier (Jun 19, 2002)

slocko said:


> i have no problems setting up my hd-tivo as a secondary receiver that records nothing but OTA. it would have the added benefit that i can record a lot more ota broadcast shows without hbo and showtime movies taking up disk space.


Thanks for this idea. This is a great solution for incorporating an expected inferior dvr into your life (in order to be able to get mpeg4 HD). TiVo software is most valuable dealing with all the shows and conflicts from broadcast TV. So you would have one DVR for OTA HD and one for all SAT HD. Since I use the SAT HD less, maybe I would not mind the inferior platform as much. Not to mention, you double your storage capacity.

Question, would you even have to pay a mirroring fee on the HR10? I guess you would because the receiver would have to stay active in order to have the DVR service active?


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## AbMagFab (Feb 5, 2001)

TyroneShoes said:


> All modern sats are capable of being remapped by telemetry, so that transponder bandwidths, frequencies, and footprints can be customized virtually on the fly. Most commercial entertainment-fare sats are also hybid Ka/Ku of recent or pending launch. It makes sense that the Spaceway Ka sats will eventually totally replace the current Ku sats, so that at some point we can go to Ka-only STBs and also go back to dishes with fewer than 5 heads on them. So, it makes sense that they will also have some CONUS capability enabled.
> 
> But Ka, Ku, MPEG-4, MPEG-2, whatever, any sat up there is able to or will be able to carry the independent bitstream carrying the legacy EPG info for current Tivo IRDs for as long as DTV wants.


But all current DTivo's, including the HR10, can't "read" from Ka sats, right? So even if they send down the guide, the HR10 won't get it. Unless there's some sort of nifty multi-switch that will map it so it looks like a Ku sat?


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

Exactly what I was thinking. As much as I hate adding an extra box to my rack, I can live with it until something better comes along. That something I am hoping is FIOS with a series 3.

But you are right, using whatever Direct ends up giving us as an HD DVR just to record non-OTA should be useable since there shouldn't be any conflicts since things tend to repeat on cable networks multiple times.



robgettier said:


> Thanks for this idea. This is a great solution for incorporating an expected inferior dvr into your life (in order to be able to get mpeg4 HD). TiVo software is most valuable dealing with all the shows and conflicts from broadcast TV. So you would have one DVR for OTA HD and one for all SAT HD. Since I use the SAT HD less, maybe I would not mind the inferior platform as much. Not to mention, you double your storage capacity.
> 
> Question, would you even have to pay a mirroring fee on the HR10? I guess you would because the receiver would have to stay active in order to have the DVR service active?


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

robgettier said:


> So you would have one DVR for OTA HD and one for all SAT HD.


this is my plan. Yes, I'll have to pay at least 400 + for the new dvr but it lets me keep my good ole Hdtivos doing what they do best...4 OTA HD at the same time! See, unless the 'cable' stuff I'm interested in becomes HD, i STILL wont have conflicts that necessitate recording mpeg4. And since those channels haven't even been tenatively announced in hd yet, i'm safe for a while yet.


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## oosik77 (Nov 22, 1999)

It will be interesting to see what DTV does if we all opt for other providers if they do take this route. I know the day I can't get what I want on DTV using my Tivo I'll be going back to cable. Come on series 3!


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

tivoreno said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong (like you won't  ) but isn't DTV's rational clear: The new MPEG4 sats are all spotbeams, for the purpose of providiong LIL HD. The sats with national coverage are virtually at capacity and are being used today for LA/NY, NFLST, HBO, SHO and several other MPEG2 HD feeds. So in order to increase HD content that has national coverage, they need to replace the existing MPEG2 HD feeds with MPEG4 to free up bandwidth.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love my HR10-250 too, and will not be happy when it can no longer record HD content from Directv....All I'm saying is I see their motivation.


Sure! I'll correct you! 

MPEG 4 has nothing to do with the satellite, it is the compression used. DirecTV is using KA satellites to deliver HD-LIL using Spot Beams, compressed with MPEG4.

They will move the current HD national channels to MPEG4 on their KU satellites and make it not available to receivers that can't decode MPEG4, in the next year or two freeing up bandwidth to add more channels and making your HR10-250 useless for receiving HD content via satellite.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

Adam1115 said:


> Sure! I'll correct you!
> 
> MPEG 4 has nothing to do with the satellite, it is the compression used. DirecTV is using KA satellites to deliver HD-LIL using Spot Beams, compressed with MPEG4.
> 
> They will move the current HD national channels to MPEG4 on their KU satellites and make it not available to receivers that can't decode MPEG4, in the next year or two freeing up bandwidth to add more channels and making your HR10-250 useless for receiving HD content via satellite.


don't you think that at that point, or somewhere before, they'll offer a replacement though, at X amount of dollars or maybe at no cost at all, adam?

in other words, the choice will be ours at that point to either have an OTA recorder or a replacement DVR without tivo software.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

joetoronto said:


> don't you think that at that point, or somewhere before, they'll offer a replacement though, at X amount of dollars or maybe at no cost at all, adam?
> 
> in other words, the choice will be ours at that point to either have an OTA recorder or a replacement DVR without tivo software.


Oh of course! At that point they'll be offering FREE upgrades with no commitment (Not at first, but for the people that don't change on their own to take advantage of HD-LIL or new HD channels..)

But the point of this thread it that you will want to keep your HR10. The choice of keeping the HR10 for SD only and OTA HD or getting a HR20 to get Sat HD and OTA HD will be tough for some...


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## kkluba (Oct 18, 2002)

I won't pay a dime for the new D* DVR. You shouldn't pay dime either. Just play the Comcast card and if necessary leave D*. I've been a subscriber for 12 years now and am increasingly feeling like the competition is better. The picture used to better, the prices used to be better, Tivo was compelling. The playing field has leveled. The picture is not better than my local Comcast, maybe worse (compression). Comcast costs the same more or less. And when the Tivo goes away from D* what is keeping me there? Not a damn thing.

The only thing interesting I've seen from D* is the media center they showed at CES a while back. Somehow I doubt it will ever materialize...


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

AbMagFab said:


> But all current DTivo's, including the HR10, can't "read" from Ka sats, right? So even if they send down the guide, the HR10 won't get it...


Yes, but that's beside the point. As long as your dish looks at the current Ku sat, and as long as your HR10 is connected to it, the guide can make it to the HR10. The Ka sats are probably hybrid, and it is reasonable to assume that once they become the primary sats, they could still carry Ku beams (which would allow them to kill, repurpose, or move the old Ku sats) that could provide the last legacy Ku feeds. But it is hard to imagine the Ku services going away until all STBs distributed before the dual (Ka/Ku) STBs become the only STBs DTV distributes, for SD and HD, and the current STBs are completely changed out, which is many years away. Whatever DTV does with the Ka sats and new STBs is a separate issue. The Ku sats will be in legacy operation long after the vast majority of HR10's have bitten the dust, and it makes sense that EPG info would be operational on those sats until the bitter end.

And as I said before, even if DTV won't send a guide or authorize the HR10 for OTA or anything else, The HR10 is still a Tivo, and it still has a modem. There is no reason Tivo (the company and service) could not talk directly to Tivo (the now-abandoned HR10 PVR) and provide the Tivo PVR service and EPG directly for OTA, bypassing DTV and all of their sats. All that would be required is probably a credit card and a phone call. For Tivo to do this would be a good business move, as it would keep loyal customers happy, and positioned for an upgrade to a S3 whenever they were ready to pull that trigger.

So it looks like the lifespan of the HR10 is probably years shorter than the lifespan of the service it needs to operate. Nothing lasts forever, but this should get us at least 5 years out of the HR10. Of the other 7 PVRs I have ever owned since 1999, most of them were obsoleted and replaced by something newer and better inside of 3 years. There are old DishPlayers, ShowStoppers, and UTVs out there still in service, but they pale in comparison to current PVRs, and none of them were futured for HD. By the time your HR10 is 5 years old, you'll be on to something better, anyway.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

joetoronto said:


> er ya, that makes sense.


So, how can we dumb this down for you?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

TyroneShoes said:


> And as I said before, even if DTV won't send a guide or authorize the HR10 for OTA or anything else, The HR10 is still a Tivo, and it still has a modem. There is no reason Tivo (the company and service) could not talk directly to Tivo (the now-abandoned HR10 PVR) and provide the Tivo PVR service and EPG directly for OTA, bypassing DTV and all of their sats. All that would be required is probably a credit card and a phone call. For Tivo to do this would be a good business move, as it would keep loyal customers happy, and positioned for an upgrade to a S3 whenever they were ready to pull that trigger.


Essentially what you're proposing would make the HR10-250 a stand-alone OTA TiVo DVR. But wouldn't this require a software update to tell the HR10 to dial into TiVo daily and then retrieve and save the guide data? Wouldn't it also require an update to the system status page and to the authorization routines to ensure the customer has paid their TiVo fees to TiVo and no longer check for DirecTV authorization? Most importantly, though, doesn't this also require the support and approval (permission) of DirecTV for TiVo to initiate a software upgrade to the HR10-250 boxes? Somehow I just don't see DirecTV allowing this, as it does not benefit DirecTV. More likely, DirecTV would want to convince users to obtain the DirecTV HD DVR+, so they wouldn't want users to have the option of using their "old" HR10 to record OTA HD.

Even DirecTV allowed it though, are there even enough HR10 boxes out there in users' hands (who also have OTA reception) for this to be worthwhile to TiVo Inc. to spend time on developing and testing the software updates? I'm sure TiVo would also have to initiate some back-end business-processing systems updates, for billing, guide issues, etc.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

drew2k said:


> Essentially what you're proposing would make the HR10-250 a stand-alone OTA TiVo DVR. But wouldn't this require a software update to tell the HR10 to dial into TiVo daily and then retrieve and save the guide data? Wouldn't it also require an update to the system status page and to the authorization routines to ensure the customer has paid their TiVo fees to TiVo and no longer check for DirecTV authorization?...


Yes. But this is what Tivo has done for many years, as it is the original business model for standalones. I would assume they were shrewd enough to engineer the SW to accomodate this sort of minor (technically speaking) change to an existing PVR.



drew2k said:


> ... Most importantly, though, doesn't this also require the support and approval (permission) of DirecTV for TiVo to initiate a software upgrade to the HR10-250 boxes? Somehow I just don't see DirecTV allowing this, as it does not benefit DirecTV. More likely, DirecTV would want to convince users to obtain the DirecTV HD DVR+, so they wouldn't want users to have the option of using their "old" HR10 to record OTA HD.
> 
> Even DirecTV allowed it though, are there even enough HR10 boxes out there in users' hands (who also have OTA reception) for this to be worthwhile to TiVo Inc. to spend time on developing and testing the software updates? I'm sure TiVo would also have to initiate some back-end business-processing systems updates, for billing, guide issues, etc.


I don't think that once DTV abandons the hardware or refuses to service it that they have any say in the matter. Even if you bought it directly from DTV, the PVRs are not a DTV product, they were outsourced to Hughes for manufacture, and are powered by Tivo software. There is nothing about the box that is proprietary to DTV. About the hardest task Tivo would have would be to remove the words "DirecTV" from the "Now Playing" graphics. Tivo would probably also remove the grid guide, which was forced upon them by DTV (but they would be well-served to replace it with something similar).

There have been estimates of 100K HR10s out there. Once all abandoned, I would think many of them would jump at "direct" (no pun) Tivo authorization. This is also probably a pretty easy rewrite, maybe not much more than a patch, or an awakening of already resident software features. If I owned Tivo, every HD DTivo that ever went out the door would already have a back-door code to revert it to a standalone. Signing up new customers and authorizing their boxes is what Tivo has always done for a living, so there is no significant retooling in personell or training or bookkeeping, for that matter.


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## rminsk (Jun 4, 2002)

TyroneShoes said:


> There is nothing about the box that is proprietary to DTV.


Except for the DirecTV tuners which must be licensed from DirecTV... TiVo was contracted to make this DVR for DirecTV and DirecTV will have the last word on it.


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## jrock (Aug 27, 2002)

I just had one of my HD TiVo's go bad and had to call a few times and jump through hoops to get it replaced. They told me they will send out a new one and to just discard the old one when I receive the new one. So from the sounds of it they don't care much about these boxes anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if this is all true.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

jrock said:


> I just had one of my HD TiVo's go bad and had to call a few times and jump through hoops to get it replaced. They told me they will send out a new one and to just discard the old one when I receive the new one. So from the sounds of it they don't care much about these boxes anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if this is all true.


that's a first. i'd make sure i got something on paper or an email from them, jrock.

at the very least, the person's name who told you this.


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

And... I wouldn't "get rid of it"... I would hang on to it, so if they ask for it back.... you still have it.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

soon they wont have enuf broken hdtivos to send out for warranty replacements!

yes i meant exactly that


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Well, maybe mine will start to break quite a bit. I could use a few 250 gig drives for a RAID array.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

Lee L said:


> Well, maybe mine will start to break quite a bit. I could use a few 250 gig drives for a RAID array.


lol, it was only a matter of time.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

rminsk said:


> Except for the DirecTV tuners which must be licensed from DirecTV... TiVo was contracted to make this DVR for DirecTV and DirecTV will have the last word on it.


Doubtful. And who cares? Those tuners are for satellite, and Tivo could just shut them off as a part of reauthorization for direct-to-the-customer Tivo service. Conditional access to DTV programming is not based in the hardware, but in the software, so DTV would still be the gatekeeper to anything a HR10 owner tried to pipe into those tuners from a sat dish or from anywhere else. The tuner hardware is a garden-variety DVB-compliant L-band sat tuner, and not proprietary, nor is it "licensed" or "licensible" by DTV to Tivo or the owners of that hardware (which would be us), and DTV does not own any part of the hardware inside a HR10 or any rights to it and never has. All they own is their own signal which they would still have complete control of, and their logo and name, which could easily come off the UI.

It's not a DTV STB, it's a 3rd-party STB. Hughes was contracted to make this box for Hughes, who sold it to BB who sold it to me. DTV never owned any part of it, other than rights to the system software build as used in concert with this box, which would be replaced under the proposed scenario, making any DTV claim null and void. If RCA and NBC are both owned by Universal, does that mean they have a right to tell you that you can't use your RCA TV to watch FOX? Because that is about how ludicrous this reasoning is starting to sound.

The only connection to the box by DTV is the version of Tivo service, which they paid Tivo $1.25 per month per authorized sub for, and which becomes moot. And the only one with any claim to MY hardware is ME.


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## tall1 (Oct 12, 2004)

Lee L said:


> Well, maybe mine will start to break quite a bit. I could use a few 250 gig drives for a RAID array.


Hmmm, I'm not even at home but I am certain my HD-Tivo just "broke".


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## Gluberall (May 30, 2006)

jrock said:


> I just had one of my HD TiVo's go bad and had to call a few times and jump through hoops to get it replaced. They told me they will send out a new one and to just discard the old one when I receive the new one. So from the sounds of it they don't care much about these boxes anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if this is all true.


 Please do not discard your old hd-tivo. The updated fee for not returning the hd dvr is $470.00. Sorry about the misinformation your received. I know I barely have any posts and will probably be called a troll so please call in to have CSR confirm this if you feel inclined.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

Gluberall said:


> Please do not discard your old hd-tivo. The updated fee for not returning the hd dvr is $470.00. Sorry about the misinformation your received. * I know I barely have any posts and will probably be called a troll so please call in to have CSR confirm this if you feel inclined.*


huh, where's this coming from, Gluberall?


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## Gluberall (May 30, 2006)

eh, I posted the price to the new Titanium package on another thread and got accused of trolling until somebody with 10,000 + posts confirmed it so I lost my posting confidence for a moment there.


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## Gluberall (May 30, 2006)

My apologies to everybody, I understand trolls are a problem and the need for the scrutiny.


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## slocko (Mar 5, 2004)

don't worry glube, most of us here know that finding a knowledgeable csr is harder than finding the proverbial needle in a haystack.


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## joetoronto (Jul 26, 2004)

Gluberall said:


> eh, I posted the price to the new Titanium package on another thread and got accused of trolling until somebody with 10,000 + posts confirmed it so I lost my posting confidence for a moment there.


i guess trolling has taken on a whole new meaning then.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

thankfully this old rumor has turned out to be false


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## tucsonbill (Aug 11, 2004)

newsposter said:


> thankfully this old rumor has turned out to be false


Quite. And your reason for reviving it was what?


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