# Series 2 digital to analog converter



## Clownpleco (Mar 11, 2008)

I know that I'm probably one of very few people that still use rabbit ears, but I do. In 2009, I plan on using a digital to analog converter. Will my series 2 recognize the the new channels (i.e., 13-1, 13-2)?


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

Clownpleco said:


> I know that I'm probably one of very few people that still use rabbit ears, but I do. In 2009, I plan on using a digital to analog converter. Will my series 2 recognize the the new channels (i.e., 13-1, 13-2)?


Aren't these analog converters basically like a cable box so that you will tune your channels using it, not the television itself? If so, then your tivo will be set to channel 3 and you'll have to use an IR blaster to change the channels that the box will recognize.

ETA: So to answer your question directly: No. Your tivo tuner will be useless for over the air reception. You will have to supply a signal to it using the D-A converter.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

Clownpleco said:


> I know that I'm probably one of very few people that still use rabbit ears, but I do. In 2009, I plan on using a digital to analog converter. Will my series 2 recognize the the new channels (i.e., 13-1, 13-2)?


It is technically possible. There is nothing stopping this from working except Tivo themselves. Tivo could "easily" add this support but unfortunately I think they would rather force us all to buy new hardware (tivo hd). Tivo themselves said the expected lifespan of a unit was originalyl 48 months. If you take into consideration the software release schedule then I wouldnt expect Tivo to make any updates/fixes to units over 3 years old.

Tivo could learn alot from Microsoft - http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/zune/fir...is-is-how-you-treat-your-customers-306422.php


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

> If you take into consideration the software release schedule then I wouldnt expect Tivo to make any updates/fixes to units over 3 years old.


That's the funniest thing I've read in a while.
There's no reason to expect Tivo to abandon the majority of it's subscribers.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

DrewTivo said:


> If so, then your tivo will be *set to channel 3*


That all depends on how the box would be connected to the TiVo.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

I have faith that Tivo will support at least one of the boxes with or without an upgrade. I have a feeling that they are just taking a wait and see approach.



ciper said:


> It is technically possible. There is nothing stopping this from working except Tivo themselves. Tivo could "easily" add this support but unfortunately I think they would rather force us all to buy new hardware (tivo hd). Tivo themselves said the expected lifespan of a unit was originalyl 48 months. If you take into consideration the software release schedule then I wouldnt expect Tivo to make any updates/fixes to units over 3 years old.
> 
> Tivo could learn alot from Microsoft - http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/zune/fir...is-is-how-you-treat-your-customers-306422.php


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

scandia101 said:


> That's the funniest thing I've read in a while.
> There's no reason to expect Tivo to abandon the majority of it's subscribers.


Not abandon, more like coerce them to buy new hardware. They've done it before. Why weren't folders added to the S1 when the S2 was in development/released? Forum members figured out how to do it so it can't be that hard... 
There is a thread on here with a quote directly from Tivo that said the expected lifetime for the Tivo hardware was 48 months and they recently adjusted the figures to 54 months.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> That all depends on how the box would be connected to the TiVo.


True. Or line in. Or channel 4. And probably something I'm forgetting.

I'm not sure how Tivo would make its existing units backwards compatible. These units are designed to receive HD signals and convert them to analog. The existing series 2 units are not designed to take HD signals.

As for whether Tivo would bother with an update -- why? I suspect the OP is the rare Tivo customer who uses solely OTA signals for non-HD reception. Sure, they exist, but it's not a big customer base and also, I suspect, not one that is among the more aggressive at upgrading and demanding features.


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## DrewTivo (Mar 30, 2005)

ciper said:


> There is a thread on here with a quote directly from Tivo that said the expected lifetime for the Tivo hardware was 48 months and they recently adjusted the figures to 54 months.


That has to do with their accounting practices, not their support for units.

Keep in mind that the substantial majority of Tivo S2 users will see no change come Feb. 2009. They will still have their Tivo plugged into their cable TV and proceed as before. The *only* people affected in Feb. 2009 are folks like the OP, who use an antenna for OTA television.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

DrewTivo said:


> True. Or line in. Or channel 4. And probably something I'm forgetting.
> 
> I'm not sure how Tivo would make its existing units backwards compatible. These units are designed to receive HD signals and convert them to analog. The existing series 2 units are not designed to take HD signals.


Correct, they aren't designed to take HD signals and they never will. That's why we're discussing the need for boxes that do take digital (not necessarily HD) signals and *convert* them to analog and then send that analog signal to the Tivo. The very first Tivo ever put on the market was capable of receiving the signal from such a converter box. What Tivo lacks, are the IR codes needed to change the channel on the converter boxes.



> As for whether Tivo would bother with an update -- why? I suspect the OP is the rare Tivo customer who uses solely OTA signals for non-HD reception. Sure, they exist, but it's not a big customer base and also, I suspect, not one that is among the more aggressive at upgrading and demanding features.


Why would tivo offer such a simple update? because tivo has yet to abandon any of it's users. They even accommodate Tivo users that don't pay for a subscription on their old S1 tivos so there's no reason to expect them to ignore paying customer's needs.


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## alyssa (Dec 7, 2003)

I suspect there are many more OTA S2 customers out there who haven't figured out there will be a problem yet.

To sum up;

IR blaster codes are required for the s2 tivo unit to talk to the converter box

No IR codes have been developed yet

with a converter box & an S2
If a person has a analog teevee -no issues

If a person has a digital teevee- poor quality


Are these four points correct?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

DrewTivo said:


> I'm not sure how Tivo would make its existing units backwards compatible. These units are designed to receive HD signals and convert them to analog. The existing series 2 units are not designed to take HD signals.


You are confusing OTA Digital with HD. The "convertor" boxes will downconvert the HD to SD,a s you said.

The Series 1/2 TiVo hardware is fully capable of working with the OTA tuner boxes, it is just that adjustments to the software need to be made to accommodate setup of "Antenna with box", and the xx-x guide data and channel changing.



> As for whether Tivo would bother with an update -- why? I suspect the OP is the rare Tivo customer who uses solely OTA signals for non-HD reception. Sure, they exist, but it's not a big customer base and also, I suspect, not one that is among the more aggressive at upgrading and demanding features.


That is the big question TiVo corporate is pondering.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

ciper said:


> Why weren't folders added to the S1 when the S2 was in development/released? Forum members figured out how to do it so it can't be that hard...


Get off it. You know Series 1 development is dead. Stop complaining about it. If you want the 3rd party hacks, do them yourself. If you want new features from TiVo, get the new hardware.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

DrewTivo said:


> Aren't these analog converters basically like a cable box so that you will tune your channels using it, not the television itself? If so, then your tivo will be set to channel 3 and you'll have to use an IR blaster to change the channels that the box will recognize.


Well, it depends on the TiVo, but generally, yes, the "convertor" (a tuner actually) works conceptually like a cable box, in that it connects between the antenna and your TV or video recorder, and you select the channel on the "convertor", instead of the TV or recorder's built in tuner.

The thing is though, that Series 1/2 TiVos currently don't directly support digital OTA boxes or guide data.



> ETA: So to answer your question directly: No. Your tivo tuner will be useless for over the air reception. You will have to supply a signal to it using the D-A converter.


The device is not a D-A converter, strictly speaking, although it will contain a couple D-A convertors in its circuitry. It is a Digital TV tuner, which as stated, is conceptually little different than a cable box which outputs one channel at a time, selected by its remote.


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## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

Why doesn't TiVo just private-label a "TiVo-branded" digital OTA converter box? Or at the very least, strike a deal with _one _STB manufacturer, like they did with eSata drives for the TiVoHD. That way they only have to support one set of codes and they can generate some revenue in the process.

Heck, if it qualified for the government voucher, Series 2 users that don't "need" a converter box would probably still "buy" the TiVo converter box just to have it.


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

Clownpleco said:


> I know that I'm probably one of very few people that still use rabbit ears, but I do. In 2009, I plan on using a digital to analog converter. Will my series 2 recognize the the new channels (i.e., 13-1, 13-2)?


All they have to do is to include the remote codes for those boxes. they would be controled just like a cable box. A simple IR database update can be done right now to support it.

The only problem comes in on people like me with a satellite dish I have DISH controled by remote codes on the video input and the antenna on the RF in.

The RF in will now need to come from the HD convertor box out ch 3 and the Tivo will have to be able to control 2 sets of IR codes one for Dish on the Video in and another for the convertor on the RF in.

This will require a small software upgrade to add dual IR code support.

Tivo needs to add this right now. This is a URGENT needed update.


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

DrewTivo said:


> As for whether Tivo would bother with an update -- why? I suspect the OP is the rare Tivo customer who uses solely OTA signals for non-HD reception. Sure, they exist, but it's not a big customer base and also, I suspect, not one that is among the more aggressive at upgrading and demanding features.


Your wrong many customers use a dish but require a Antenna to get networks since they can not get them on a dish.

Even people who qualify for networks over the dish may be using an antenna since it cost less than paying for networks.


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

ciper said:


> Not abandon, more like coerce them to buy new hardware. They've done it before. Why weren't folders added to the S1 when the S2 was in development/released? Forum members figured out how to do it so it can't be that hard...
> There is a thread on here with a quote directly from Tivo that said the expected lifetime for the Tivo hardware was 48 months and they recently adjusted the figures to 54 months.


If Tivo stops supporting series 2 I will downgrade to basic and build my own DVR. I am not getting a series 3 Since Dish doesnt give you HD unless you pay more its not worth it. Over the air HD really is not worth recording with all the dropouts we are getting in rual areas SD is just fine.

I am waiting to see what the new Echostar after it seperates from Dish network is going to sell in its OTA DVRs

Sounds like it will be a TiVo like unit that doesnt require a dish subscription? Waiting to see.


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## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

satmaster said:


> If Tivo stops supporting series 2 I will downgrade to basic and build my own DVR. I am not getting a series 3 Since Dish doesnt give you HD unless you pay more its not worth it. Over the air HD really is not worth recording with all the dropouts we are getting in rual areas SD is just fine.
> 
> I am waiting to see what the new Echostar after it seperates from Dish network is going to sell in its OTA DVRs
> 
> Sounds like it will be a TiVo like unit that doesnt require a dish subscription? Waiting to see.



A Series 3 TiVo won't work with Dish at all.
If OTA HD isn't worth recording, why do you care what Echostar's OTA DVR looks like?


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## swkenney (Oct 27, 2004)

For Seires2 DT they should make a dual tuner box with channel 3 and 4 output. One of the outputs could instead go to s-video to get the better quality input to TiVo

TiVo could have a record option to use S-video first if available for shows that you choose.

If TiVo stays with controlling only only one external box, then someone could make a box that would have an output channel frequency change to match that of the requested channel as it is right now. I doubt this will happen, though.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

Martin Tupper said:


> Why doesn't TiVo just private-label a "TiVo-branded" digital OTA converter box? Or at the very least, strike a deal with _one _STB manufacturer, like they did with eSata drives for the TiVoHD. That way they only have to support one set of codes and they can generate some revenue in the process.
> 
> Heck, if it qualified for the government voucher, Series 2 users that don't "need" a converter box would probably still "buy" the TiVo converter box just to have it.


That's the prediction I made in this thread.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

satmaster said:


> ...Over the air HD really is not worth recording with all the dropouts we are getting in rual areas SD is just fine...


It won't be after the digital changeover.

ALL channels will be digital, and subject to the same "dropouts" the digital channels you've already tried for have.

It'll make no difference if that digital channel is sending you a *h*igh *d*ef picture or a *s*tandard *d*ef one. If there are dropouts, there are dropouts.

Might I suggest a BIG antenna on a very high mast?


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Martin Tupper said:


> Why doesn't TiVo just private-label a "TiVo-branded" digital OTA converter box? Or at the very least, strike a deal with _one _STB manufacturer, like they did with eSata drives for the TiVoHD. That way they only have to support one set of codes and they can generate some revenue in the process.


The issue isn't IR codes. IR codes are a rather simple deal.

The issue is in lower level setup for "Antenna with box" , and the "-" in digital OTA channels. making their own box or partnering with a box manufacturer will not help.

It is too late to begin to developing a CECB. It should be on the list, if not in stores.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

classicsat said:


> The issue is in lower level setup for "Antenna with box" , and the "-" in digital OTA channels.


I don't know why you keep saying this. That work is already done. It's there in the S3/HD. It's not any different for the S2. IR codes are indeed a bigger issue, though you're right that they shouldn't be a big one, either.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

Antenna with box is not an option in guided setup for any TiVo. I have no clue how hard it would be to add, but it would take code changes, the IR codes is just a database update. Support for the dash (-) is already in the code as you said, so that part should be no harder than the IR codes.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

satmaster said:


> All they have to do is to include the remote codes for those boxes. they would be controled just like a cable box. A simple IR database update can be done right now to support it.


IR codes are the part of it.They need to support Guided setup for "Antenna With Box". Yada Yada Yada. Not a small upgrade.



> The only problem comes in on people like me with a satellite dish I have DISH controled by remote codes on the video input and the antenna on the RF in.
> 
> The RF in will now need to come from the HD convertor box out ch 3 and the Tivo will have to be able to control 2 sets of IR codes one for Dish on the Video in and another for the convertor on the RF in.
> 
> This will require a small software upgrade to add dual IR code support.


Single tuner TiVos support dual box setup already, so long as one is satellite. They could modify that so that they could have cable (with or without box)+OTA with box.


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## satmaster (Sep 11, 2004)

gastrof said:


> It won't be after the digital changeover.
> 
> ALL channels will be digital, and subject to the same "dropouts" the digital channels you've already tried for have.
> 
> ...


No your wrong dropouts are worse on HD than they are on SD due to the higher data rates.

And I already have the largest antenna made with a huge amp on a tower.


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## erosenbaum (Jun 12, 2008)

As has already been stated, a Seres2 DT cannot work as a dual tuner once your cable company switches over to an all-digital signal, and Tivo does not support any digital-to-analog converters.

My question is could I not connect a digital-to-analog converter between the coax splitter and my series 2 DT analog input? I know that I would have to manually change the channels on the converter, but at least this would allow me to view one program on low channels while recording whatever on the Tivo.


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## Stephen Tu (May 10, 1999)

Read the sticky FAQ at the top of the forum.



erosenbaum said:


> As has already been stated, a Seres2 DT cannot work as a dual tuner once your cable company switches over to an all-digital signal, and Tivo does not support any digital-to-analog converters.


- For cable, in most areas switching to all-digital isn't happening anytime soon
- For cable Tivo *does* support digital cable boxes. The "converters" being referenced earlier in the thread are referring to over-the-air boxes & don't apply to you. The OTA converters will be supported on single-tuner Series 2 after software update this summer.



> My question is&#8230; could I not connect a digital-to-analog converter between the coax splitter and my series 2 DT analog input? I know that I would have to manually change the channels on the converter, but at least this would allow me to view one program on low channels while recording whatever on the Tivo.


You can put a cable box between the splitter and the Tivo, and have the IR blaster change channels automatically. If you are in one of the areas where the cable company does go all-digital, essentially you have a single tuner Tivo.

The "low channels" you are getting are analog, the DT needs them to be analog to operate effectively. If you are saying that you would get a 2nd cable box for the RF input and change channels manually in an effort to maintain DT capability if your cable company were to go all digital, yes that would work to a certain extent but it would be very inconvenient. Limitations:
- you'd have to carefully shield the box being controlled by the Tivo IR blasters to avoid changing channels on the other box or being affected by the remote
- you'd have to record everything for that tuner on "channel 3" on the Tivo, so all these recordings would be mislabeled.
- have to set manual timers for everything on both the Tivo & the box for that tuner.

If you want to maintain dual tuner capability when a cable company goes all-digital it would make a ton more sense to just get TivoHD. But don't do so prematurely (unless you are upgrading to HDTV anyway) as most areas of the country won't be affected for a few years, possibly many years.


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## gastrof (Oct 31, 2003)

erosenbaum said:


> As has already been stated, a Seres2 DT cannot work as a dual tuner once your cable company switches over to an all-digital signal, and Tivo does not support any digital-to-analog converters.
> 
> My question is could I not connect a digital-to-analog converter between the coax splitter and my series 2 DT analog input? I know that I would have to manually change the channels on the converter, but at least this would allow me to view one program on low channels while recording whatever on the Tivo.


You've resurrected a thread that was three months old. You're also ignoring the theme.

The OP is not talking cable. He wants to use an antenna to get digital channels on a "converter" (receiver) and feed them into his TiVo, in a way SIMILAR to how it's done with a cable box.

The Dual Tuner Series 2 isn't made for *O*ver*T*he*A*ir at all, so it's not a part of this discussion.

As for TiVo not supporting d-a converter boxes, there's indication from the TiVo website that they most certainly ARE coming up with something for Series 2 users, and possibly for Series 1 people as well (tho' that seems to be even further down the road, if it happens at all).

Your question on using an OTA converter box with a Series 2 Dual Tuner is...weird. Those boxes aren't made to work with cable. They're for OTA only.

The Dual Tuner machine, as mentioned above, is NOT set up to work with an antenna, and it won't even give you the OTA lineup as an option.

Using an OTA converter with a DT Series 2 just might work in a clunky way, tho' your listings will be entirely wrong and always give the wrong channel and show description info in "Now Playing", but as for using the other tuner "on its own", forget it.

IT DOESN'T WORK WITH OVER THE AIR TELEVISION.

The DT is for cable only. You'd get only analog channels 2-13, and again the listings and show description info will be wrong, since it's not likely your local cable lineup (which will be an option) will match up with your actual OTA channels.


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