# With 20.6.3, Roamio Pro reverts to PCM audio while saying it's sending Dolby



## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

TiVo broke something when they 'fixed' the issue with Quick Access dropping in and out of PCM audio.

On my setup (I never use QA), I have to reset the audio every day now to get the Roamio to put out Dolby. I go to the Audio screen, and it says I have DD enabled, but the box is outputting PCM. I deselect and reselect DD, and it's good until the next time (no more than 24 hours later). Sometimes I can fix it by changing channels, but it reverts to PCM again overnight.

An awful, *awful*, _*awful *_update.


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## gmacted (Sep 27, 2013)

dougdingle said:


> TiVo broke something when they 'fixed' the issue with Quick Access dropping in and out of PCM audio.
> 
> On my setup (I never use QA), I have to reset the audio every day now to get the Roamio to put out Dolby. I go to the Audio screen, and it says I have DD enabled, but the box is outputting PCM. I deselect and reselect DD, and it's good until the next time (no more than 24 hours later). Sometimes I can fix it by changing channels, but it reverts to PCM again overnight.
> 
> An awful, *awful*, _*awful *_update.


I have experienced the same issue.

Have you contacted TiVo and reported the problem?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

gmacted said:


> I have experienced the same issue.
> 
> Have you contacted TiVo and reported the problem?


I have, and it was the most frustrating experience I've had with them _*ever*_.

The person I spoke with kept insisting it was the fault of the AVR, or that the Roamio was putting out Dolby, even when the AVR said it was getting PCM. Then he got creative and said that if I fed the Roamio directly into the TV instead of going through the AVR, and I heard audio, it meant that the Roamio was putting out Dolby Digital, which is the stupidest statement I've heard from 'tech support' anywhere in a very long time. I hung up.

A complete frustrating waste of time.

I'm going to submit an online report of this, and I'm also going to investigate Spectrum's whole-house DVR offerings, because for the first time in more than a decade, I have lost confidence in TiVo/Rovi to get anything right. Between the ongoing guide data fiasco, and 'updates' that break things, and refusing to admit they've broken things, they have turned a wonderful product I've used since the Series 1 into a frustrating piece of ****e.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Submitted a trouble ticket online.

"Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. We have assigned Case Number 06476388 to your support issue. We are actively working to resolve your support request and will have more information for you as quickly as possible."


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

I have the same issue with Bolt+

Not all the time, but often enough to annoy me.

Solution is simple (as on OP), but why do I have to deal with it? Annoying!


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## gibbyscott (Jul 13, 2004)

Yeah same issue here too. I think it has something to do with the Screen Reader since turning that on switches to pcm


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## bsbd (Mar 1, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> On my setup (I never use QA), I have to reset the audio every day now to get the Roamio to put out Dolby. I go to the Audio screen, and it says I have DD enabled, but the box is outputting PCM. I deselect and reselect DD, and it's good until the next time (no more than 24 hours later).


I was experiencing the same thing with my Roamio Pro. I finally figured out that if it doesn't get the correct HDMI handshake when waking up (coming out of standby) it would ignore the Dolby Digital audio menu setting and just output PCM stereo. After that it would stay in PCM stereo mode until I forced DD the same way you're doing it.

To prevent it from launching into PCM stereo mode in the first place I have to be sure to power-on my Denon AVR first *before* waking up the Roamio.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

My Roamio doesn't go into standby. Back when I first got it, I tried it, and there were delays with my Minis when I used it, so I stopped. I also measured the power consumption difference, and at 15 cents/Kwhr, it amounted to a whopping $10 a year in savings. I decided I would rather have my minis get a tuner immediately as requested instead of having to wait for the Roamio to wake up for the $10/yr.

It would be helpful if everyone with the issue would submit a bug report to TiVo. The support person with whom I spoke made me realize that doing it online at tivo.com was a better option - the person was not very smart, insisting the problem was with my AVR when it clearly is not any such thing.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

gibbyscott said:


> Yeah same issue here too. I think it has something to do with the Screen Reader since turning that on switches to pcm


Maybe, or else I'm given to understand that there was an issue with going into the quick view speed up mode going into PCM but failing to revert to DD when exiting that mode. They fixed that, and broke this doing it.

Whatever it is, it has become annoying.


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## gmacted (Sep 27, 2013)

dougdingle said:


> Submitted a trouble ticket online.
> 
> "Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. We have assigned Case Number 06476388 to your support issue. We are actively working to resolve your support request and will have more information for you as quickly as possible."


I have opened a case with TiVo regarding this problem. My case number is 06477244. I have referenced your case number (06476388) in my case.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

It only takes a couple of minutes to email support online. If you're having the issue, please do so. 

The more people do it, the faster it moves up the 'this needs fixing' list. 

If you reference the two case numbers so far (above), it will happen even faster.


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## bsbd (Mar 1, 2015)

dougdingle said:


> My Roamio doesn't go into standby.


Something else must be triggering an HDMI handshake then. There's obviously some kind of fault in the Roamio's HDMI handshake routine that fails to recognize certain DD-capable devices downstream. It happens to me with a directly-connected and powered-up LG TV even though that display definitely supports DD incoming via HDMI. For whatever reason the Roamio likes my Denon, and if I keep the AVR powered-up the Roamio never slips into PCM mode.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

bsbd said:


> Something else must be triggering an HDMI handshake then. There's obviously some kind of fault in the Roamio's HDMI handshake routine that fails to recognize certain DD-capable devices downstream. It happens to me with a directly-connected and powered-up LG TV even though that display definitely supports DD incoming via HDMI. For whatever reason the Roamio likes my Denon, and if I keep the AVR powered-up the Roamio never slips into PCM mode.


I don't know if that's how it works, with the TiVo switching to PCM if the destination doesn't support DD. In the past (it's been a while since I've had a destination device that didn't support DD), if I selected DD on the TiVo, and the destination didn't support it, all I got was silence - the box did not downshift to PCM.

And since I've had this issue, the setup screen for audio has shown DD selected when the box was putting out PCM.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't know if new code was sent to my Roamio, but I haven't seen the issue in a few days...


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## gmacted (Sep 27, 2013)

dougdingle said:


> I don't know if new code was sent to my Roamio, but I haven't seen the issue in a few days...


I hadn't seen it in a few days either, but it happened again this morning. It suspect it may be happening when the TiVo goes to sleep when PCM audio is active. Some commercials switch to PCM and back to Dolby once the show resumes.


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## WRX09MD (Aug 25, 2013)

Mine switched to pcm the day the update when through. I'm running through an Onkyo receiver. Once I switched it back to digital in the Romio it has stayed. Haven't had to switch it back again. I don't do stanby either.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Things continue to work correctly for me, and it's been a week now. Was happening consistently, daily. 

I suggest they may have slipstreamed a fix that didn't need rebooting (since that hasn't happened).

I'm just glad it's working now.


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## NYHeel (Oct 7, 2003)

I still have to periodically fix the audio. I just did it last night. It's pretty annoying. 

Truth is I don't actually hear that much of a difference between the PCM and DD despite a pretty nice setup. But I hear the Tivo sound effects and realize the issue.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> Things continue to work correctly for me, and it's been a week now. Was happening consistently, daily.
> 
> I suggest they may have slipstreamed a fix that didn't need rebooting (since that hasn't happened).
> 
> I'm just glad it's working now.


Aaaaaaaand...I spoke too soon. Had to fix it again yesterday evening.

On my setup, I can hear a significant difference between PCM and DD, certainly on action movies.

And it really is annoying to have to have to go into the audio setup, then back out, to fix the issue.

Interestingly, this does not affect my three Minis, which continue to pump out DD without problems.


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## met_fan (May 12, 2014)

I noticed this problem for the first time today. I noticed the sound was off and then every channel was showing as "stereo" on my AVR. Went into the TiVo menu to Dolby just as noted by others and then the audio went back to normal.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

It only takes a couple of minutes to email support online. If you're having the issue, please do so.

The more people do it, the faster it moves up the 'this needs fixing' list.

If you reference the two case numbers so far (above), it will happen even faster, I've been told.


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## jlanzy (Sep 17, 2007)

dougdingle said:


> It only takes a couple of minutes to email support online. If you're having the issue, please do so.
> 
> The more people do it, the faster it moves up the 'this needs fixing' list.
> 
> If you reference the two case numbers so far (above), it will happen even faster, I've been told.


Thanks, will do. It is a pain in the hinny because I can't detect it until the program starts playing and I see that it reverted from DD to 2 channel PCM and have to stop the program and go in and undo the checked DD, and then recheck it. This has been occurring every day for the past couple of weeks since it appears there has been an update.....well, I know what the update broke, what did it fix?


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## jlanzy (Sep 17, 2007)

jlanzy said:


> Thanks, will do. It is a pain in the hinny because I can't detect it until the program starts playing and I see that it reverted from DD to 2 channel PCM and have to stop the program and go in and undo the checked DD, and then recheck it. This has been occurring every day for the past couple of weeks since it appears there has been an update.....well, I know what the update broke, what did it fix?


Oh, I see in the very first post that it fixed something that I never used...hmm, that was worth it. I guess unlike computers we can't revert it to the prior update or like Microsoft updates we can choose if we want the update installed or not ?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

jlanzy said:


> .....well, I know what the update broke, what did it fix?


So they say: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information


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## ericr74 (Apr 16, 2001)

I've had the same problem with my Roamio Pro ever since updating to 20.6.3-RC7. It's connected to an Onkyo TX NR-646. I can get it back to Dolby by re-selecting Dolby even though it is already selected.


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## mchief (Sep 10, 2005)

Had the problem again for the past couple of days. When I turn on the TV and AVR it shows PCM. I used to be able to change the channel and DD would return. Now I have to go to Audio setting and check and uncheck DD to get it to work properly.


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## davispeden (Jan 2, 2007)

For those of you using Marantz receivers, I did find a bit of a workaround for this but it is a PITA. I used an optical cable to connect from the TiVo to one of the optical audio inputs on the receiver. I then configured the source on my receiver to use the optical input for audio rather than HDMI. I then had to force the audio source to be Digital as opposed to Auto-detect. I suspect a similar workaround can be employed on most decent receivers.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Please report this problem to TiVo using the online form on their support page. It only takes a moment.

The more people report it, the more possibility of getting it fixed.

And may I say, _*REALLY *_an annoying bug.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

davispeden said:


> For those of you using Marantz receivers, I did find a bit of a workaround for this but it is a PITA. I used an optical cable to connect from the TiVo to one of the optical audio inputs on the receiver. I then configured the source on my receiver to use the optical input for audio rather than HDMI. I then had to force the audio source to be Digital as opposed to Auto-detect. I suspect a similar workaround can be employed on most decent receivers.


That would seem to indicate that the optical output from the TiVo stays at DD when the audio on HDMI changes to PCM due to this bug.

Is that your impression?

When you do this, does the Marantz indicate it's receiving DD audio over optical?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

davispeden said:


> For those of you using Marantz receivers, I did find a bit of a workaround for this but it is a PITA. I used an optical cable to connect from the TiVo to one of the optical audio inputs on the receiver. I then configured the source on my receiver to use the optical input for audio rather than HDMI. I then had to force the audio source to be Digital as opposed to Auto-detect. I suspect a similar workaround can be employed on most decent receivers.


The down side is the optical output is limited to DD 5.1. You lose DD+ from streaming and DD EX from CNN.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> The down side is the optical output is limited to DD 5.1. You lose DD+ from streaming and DD EX from CNN.


I had to look up DD EX, never heard of it before.

What AVR are you using that can decode it? My new Yamaha cannot.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dougdingle said:


> I had to look up DD EX, never heard of it before.
> 
> What AVR are you using that can decode it? My new Yamaha cannot.


RX-V867, not a new model but works really well. I wanted to upgrade for 4k, but the RX-V681 doesn't look so good right now. I'll wait.

Not all CNN output is DD EX. In fact they will sometimes drop LFE during commercials.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> That would seem to indicate that the optical output from the TiVo stays at DD when the audio on HDMI changes to PCM due to this bug.
> 
> Is that your impression?
> 
> When you do this, does the Marantz indicate it's receiving DD audio over optical?


I haven't had any issues with this bug using optical audio to our older Onkyo receiver (no HDMI).

Scott


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> RX-V867, not a new model but works really well. I wanted to upgrade for 4k, but the RX-V681 doesn't look so good right now. I'll wait.
> 
> Not all CNN output is DD EX. In fact they will sometimes drop LFE during commercials.


I have the TSR-7810, the Costco version of the RX-V781 (seems identical in every way except price).

Nice receiver, especially for the money. Some issues with CEC, but I'm finding out CEC working properly is a big crapshoot. DD EX is not among the listed supported formats in the manual.

I'll tune in CNN, see what the Yamaha front panel display says it's getting.

EDIT: Oh, and I don't use the TiVo for streaming. Once I tried the Amazon Fire and the Roku a while ago, it became evident how slow and buggy and old the streaming apps were on the Roamio. Night and day. Yes, it's another remote, and another HDMI slot in the AVR, but I stream quite a bit of UHD as well, and the Fire is required for that anyway.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

HerronScott said:


> I haven't had any issues with this bug using optical audio to our older Onkyo receiver (no HDMI).
> 
> Scott


Interesting. You're the second poster to say optical is not suffering from the issue. And you're using a Roamio Plus or Pro, right?

I'd swap over to that in a minute, but it would take me a while to reprogram my AVR remote and universal remote to use optical when I select "Watch TV". What a pain.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Interesting. You're the second poster to say optical is not suffering from the issue. And you're using a Roamio Plus or Pro, right?
> 
> I'd swap over to that in a minute, but it would take me a while to reprogram my AVR remote and universal remote to use optical when I select "Watch TV". What a pain.


Yes a Roamio Pro. I don't think it should matter but we're using component video along with the optical audio since the receiver doesn't have any HDMI ports (Onkyo TX-SR603X). At least with our receiver, you just configure it to use a specific optical audio port with a specific video input and there's no further selection that has to be done when selecting that video input.

Scott


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dougdingle said:


> I have the TSR-7810, the Costco version of the RX-V781 (seems identical in every way except price).
> 
> Nice receiver, especially for the money. Some issues with CEC, but I'm finding out CEC working properly is a big crapshoot. DD EX is not among the listed supported formats in the manual.
> 
> ...


I have a Roku 3, but while faster, no 24fps. I am patient and don't mind the access speed for Amazon. When checking CNN, wait for a real program, not a promo or commercial. I use a Blu-ray, Roamio, Premiere, Roku 3, Magnavox and optical from the Roamio and TV to feed the Yamaha. Quite a workhorse. Roku is mostly for Pandora.

You may need to check the OSD for audio type. There's no indication for DD that I know of, and I don't use my sub unless there's an LFE signal, so I can watch the speaker LED. I have mine set for 7 channel stereo and Bi-Amp.

In keeping with this thread's topic, I have powered on my AVR three times in two years with only PCM. I clear it with a quick Pause on the Roamio.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

HerronScott said:


> I haven't had any issues with this bug using optical audio to our older Onkyo receiver (no HDMI).


Same here with older Onkyo, so must be an HDMI-only problem. Using Roamio Plus.

I did notice that it switched to PCM with the 20.6.3 update but I set it back to Dolby and it's stayed there ever since.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

JoeKustra said:


> When checking CNN, wait for a real program, not a promo or commercial.
> 
> You may need to check the OSD for audio type. There's no indication for DD that I know of, and I don't use my sub unless there's an LFE signal, so I can watch the speaker LED. I have mine set for 7 channel stereo and Bi-Amp.


I tuned in to Andersen Cooper. Saw no difference in the Yamaha decoder. It's possible Spectrum converts everything to 5.1

I'm set up at the moment as 5.1.2


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dougdingle said:


> I tuned in to Andersen Cooper. Saw no difference in the Yamaha decoder. It's possible Spectrum converts everything to 5.1
> 
> I'm set up at the moment as 5.1.2


Right now Anderson Cooper is on. It shows as 3/3/0.1 and a bit rate of 448kbps. I can't explain it, but you can check Wiki. MSNBC shows as 3/2/0.1 and 384kbps. I only have a 5.1 speaker configuration.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Having abated for a while, it's now happening here every single day for at least a week. Go to bed with Dolby enabled, wake up with PCM.


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

Holy crap this has been driving me crazy, so I'm at least mildly comforted to discover it's not just me. I also opened a case, 06573407.

I'm using an Onkyo TX-NR709 and Samsung HL-T7288W. I noticed this a couple weeks ago and it happens to me probably 50% of the time. I also use a Harmony so the power-up sequence should be pretty consistent. I actually recently switched from a Harmony One to a Harmony Hub so I was worried that was somehow responsible.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

dougdingle said:


> Go to bed with Dolby enabled, wake up with PCM.


Are you sure that you're not confusing your TiVo with your Tinder?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> Are you sure that you're not confusing your TiVo with your Tinder?


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

Still happening for me... any chance anyone has heard from Tivo?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

The only thing I heard from TiVo was a survey asking if I was happy with how my issue was resolved. I was not kind.

It's happening for me every day now.

Between this and the TiVo losing my folder sort order daily, things are getting pretty annoying.


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

Well, as if by magic, I got a response yesterday. Unfortunately the response is not encouraging, choosing to blame my AV equipment rather than escalate 

Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support.

Do you have the same issue connecting directly to the TV instead of using the receiver?
What is the make/model of the receiver?
What is the make/model of the TV?


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

todd_j_derr said:


> Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support.
> 
> Do you have the same issue connecting directly to the TV instead of using the receiver?
> What is the make/model of the receiver?
> What is the make/model of the TV?


It's never a good sign when a support rep drops into "You're an idiot for not figuring out it's something else at fault that has nothing to do with us or our gear" mode.

I suppose it's also the AVR/TV's fault that the increasingly more stupid Roamio resets the sort order for every folder every single time it calls Mom.

If I wanted this quality of gear and support, I'd live with the cableco DVR. After more than a decade, the Roamio Pro will definitely be my last and final TiVo. The Rovi purchase and the people and attitude that came with it are decidedly user hostile.


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

Well, today I got another reply, again suggesting I hook it directly to my TV, and saying it wasn't a "known issue". I again provided the 2 case numbers I found earlier in this thread and sent links to this thread and 3 other ones that also discuss this problem. So, anyone else having this problem, please report it.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

I despise tech support groups who lie about problems, saying it's not a known issue, or that no one else is having the problem, even when you can document that they've been made aware of it by other users. What is the point of the lies? The problem is well documented on a public forum.

It does not bode well for the future of TiVo/Rovi if they are now resorting to this method of blowing off users with repeatable, documented problems.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

dougdingle said:


> I despise tech support groups who lie about problems, saying it's not a known issue, or that no one else is having the problem, even when you can document that they've been made aware of it by other users. What is the point of the lies? The problem is well documented on a public forum.
> 
> It does not bode well for the future of TiVo/Rovi if they are now resorting to this method of blowing off users with repeatable, documented problems.


TiVo's call center was outsourced a few years ago, before the Rovipocalpse.

The poor guys that work in these off-shore centers work from a script. Their most important performance metric is calls handled per hour, and when you go off their script with a question they can't handle they will say anything to get you off the line and keep their numbers up.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

ej42137 said:


> TiVo's call center was outsourced a few years ago, before the Rovipocalpse.
> 
> The poor guys that work in these off-shore centers work from a script. Their most important performance metric is calls handled per hour, and when you go off their script with a question they can't handle they will say anything to get you off the line and keep their numbers up.


Except that when I called about this, the man with whom I spoke was either an incredible mimic, or was from the American south with a heavy drawl. He proceeded to tell me that there was no difference in the Roamio's output whether my AVR indicated DD or PCM, and that if I hooked the Roamio directly to the TV, if I heard audio of any sort, the Roamio was sending DD out over HDMI.

Both statements are outright lies, and I suspect he knew that. When I tried to explain that what he was saying was incorrect, he hung up on me. I then submitted an online report of the problem, which was when I got my 'incident number'.

Current confidence level in TiVo tech support: Very close to zero.

It seems people using optical for TiVo audio don't have this issue, and I may just give up on TiVo ever fixing this and go that route.


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

Hm... I didn't know about the optical workaround, I could give that a shot. Although I worry about introducing lip-sync issues going that route.

FWIW, I have not seen this problem on my Mini.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

I haven't seen it on my mini that's going through a Marantz AVR either (the Roamio is going through a Yamaha AVR).

I would be surprised if there were any lip-sync issues with using optical instead of HDMI audio. I'm going to try to run one today and see (it's not so easy with my setup - big cabinet to move).

The only downside I can see is that optical is limited to DD 5.1, and if you stream using the TiVo, some services offer DD+ audio, which will be downgraded to DD on optical. Since I rarely use my Roamio for streaming (way too slow and buggy for me), I don't have the issue, but others might.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

todd_j_derr said:


> Hm... I didn't know about the optical workaround, I could give that a shot. Although I worry about introducing lip-sync issues going that route.
> 
> FWIW, I have not seen this problem on my Mini.


I have used my Roamio audio through optical and not had sync issues. There is a small audio delay when using the RW of A/V.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

What does "RW of A/V" mean?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dougdingle said:


> What does "RW of A/V" mean?


Red White, the audio connections. The Yellow is the video. I use the A/V port (also known as Composite) to drive my wireless headphones sometimes. I just leave the Yellow hang. There is a slight echo until I mute the normal HDMI audio.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

todd_j_derr said:


> Hm... I didn't know about the optical workaround, I could give that a shot. Although I worry about introducing lip-sync issues going that route.


No issues with audio lip-sync issues using optical audio to an Onkyo receiver with our Roamio Pro (or our 2 S3 OLED's for the last 10 years). 

Scott


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## todd_j_derr (Jun 6, 2000)

Well, I got one more "blow off" email and responded asking to escalate... then finally they replied saying that now they're getting other reports of this issue (I guess, aside from the multiple cases/threads I referred to in my report) and consider it a bug. So, it took some time and frustration but hopefully a fix is in the works.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks for pursuing this. The timing is interesting - I just hooked up the optical cable last night to try and bypass the issue.


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## gmacted (Sep 27, 2013)

I have found a quicker way to clear the problem when it does happen. I go to "Tivo Central", "Settings and Messages", "Settings", and then back out to Tivo Central. Once the Tivo enters "Settings", the problem will be corrected until the Tivo goes to sleep again.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Mine never goes to sleep, and I have the issue anyway.

And lately I noticed that my Mini has started putting out DD 2.0 stereo in many situations, both watching live and playback. Same channels and same recorded shows on the Roamio itself are all at DD 5.1 like they should be. No way to get the Mini to put out 5.1 on certain channels and recordings, no matter what I try, including rebooting it. 

It's quite maddening. I didn't spend the money on a decent AVR and 5.1 speakers for the bedroom to have stereo from a decade or two ago.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

m


dougdingle said:


> TiVo broke something when they 'fixed' the issue with Quick Access dropping in and out of PCM audio.
> 
> On my setup (I never use QA), I have to reset the audio every day now to get the Roamio to put out Dolby. I go to the Audio screen, and it says I have DD enabled, but the box is outputting PCM. I deselect and reselect DD, and it's good until the next time (no more than 24 hours later). Sometimes I can fix it by changing channels, but it reverts to PCM again overnight.
> 
> An awful, *awful*, _*awful *_update.


Yep, This is REALLY starting to drive me crazy, hence why I am posting. Just about EVERY DAY, I have to force the DD option to get back to DD.

I mean really, doesn't anybody at Tivo have a DD setup that they test with? If you HEAR Tivo Channel change sounds or when you hit the Tivo button, then it is NOT in set to DD. It should have been blatantly obvious when doing internal testing.

I see they have a new Priority update page up so lets hope they have fixed this in the latest beta.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Chuck_IV said:


> I see they have a new Priority update page up so lets hope they have fixed this in the latest beta.


I wonder if there will be an official beta. The regular TiVo beta web page has no mention of one yet.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

I was delaying responding to this thread as I was in contact with TiVo about this issue for over a year now. This problem started back in December of 2015 when we got the update for skip mode and quick mode. At that point you can get the audio to switch by changing channels or hitting the pause button twice. When 20.6.3 hit those easy fixes were gone and only left entering and exiting one of the remaining SD menu in TiVo Central. You can also get it to change by putting the TiVo in standby and then bring it back out of standby. The last option is to reboot the box.
In the summer I was supposed to Beta test a fix for this but I was never contacted. I figured the sale screwed this up. Then in the late fall my box was put on monitoring and I was doing the 777clear thing when I turned the receiver on and off. I just contacted someone at TiVo yesterday as I never heard anything back about this. In the communication I specifically asked if this will be fixed and if not I asked them to say so as I am tired of wasting my time with this. I have more important things to do than baby sit a dumb box for no reason at all. I have had no response yet.

The actual problem is there was a number of owners complaining about the audio dropping out when going in and out of TiVo Central. So starting with the quick mode update TiVo has been shortening the HDMI handshake when going in and out of TiVo Central. The 20.6.3 basically killed off the HDMI audio check on the TiVo so it now can not respond to a change of audio in the HDMI chain.
The major problem here is TiVo Central has its own video output resolution and is not an overlay menu like the guide is. So every time you go in and out of TiVo Central it will require a handshake when using HDMI. TiVo has broke something in the HDMI protocol in order to eliminate the audio resyncing when going in and out of TiVo Central. In order to fix that they will have to restore the HDMI protocol, which will put back the audio drop out due to the resyncing process or completely redesign TiVo Central and make it an overlay menu like the guide.
Since restoring the protocol will bring back complaints about the audio drop out I do not see them fixing this issue at all. So this will leave us owners who route their HDMI feed through receivers out of luck.
Calling TiVo Support will just bring recommendations to hook the TiVo directly to the TV and use optical but if you are like me I go through the receiver so I can get DD plus from Amazon Prime and Vudu. Also since Support has slipped into a abyss they will probably have you reboot the box or rerun guided setup so the support route has become useless.

I really liked TiVo as it can do multiple things with out the need for multiple boxes. I liked the idea of going from live or recorded TV right to a streaming option. I also like the fact that this is one of the devices that can do 1080p24 from the streaming services. I can still use the TiVo and go through the work around for the audio but other people in the house don't know how to do that and this is making me come up with a different solution for TV in the home. My cable system is running a promotion right now for two months free if I upgrade to their 6 tuner whole home setup so I am considering this right now. I have another solution for streaming form a Sony BD player.

If any of you want to try to get this resolved then try contacting Margret and asking her for guidance.
[email protected]


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Well...that explains why optical doesn't have the problem. 

And support has definitely slipped into the abyss. I had the support person (US based, I think) tell me that if I plug the Roamio's HDMI output directly into the TV and I hear audio, the TiVo is definitely sending 5.1 DD. Then he said he had been a sound engineer for decades before joining TiVo support and knew exactly what he was talking about. 

I actually laughed out loud at that. It would be difficult to get a stupider answer, but I'm sure they're working on having one. 

TiVo support has become that 1990's standing joke response: "Did you try reinstalling Windows?"

Just sad, as Ross Perot used to say.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

dougdingle said:


> Well...that explains why optical doesn't have the problem.
> 
> And support has definitely slipped into the abyss. I had the support person (US based, I think) tell me that if I plug the Roamio's HDMI output directly into the TV and I hear audio, the TiVo is definitely sending 5.1 DD. Then he said he had been a sound engineer for decades before joining TiVo support and knew exactly what he was talking about.
> 
> ...


My best Support line was "jiggle the cables". That was about two years ago. I just went along with him and did all the stupid things on the list and when nothing worked that's what he came up with. After that I avoid Support as much as possible.

Yea optical (SPDIF, Sony Phillips Digital Interface) will always work as it has nothing to do with the HDMI protocol. The big issue with optical is it can only pass lossy DD 5.1 and nothing higher. They also want everybody to use one output resolution, mainly 1080i which is the default resolution for TiVo. In fact 1080i has become the default resolution for most STBs. I assume most testing is done with that configuration so they want everybody to use it. This is why I doubt that this issue will get fixed.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

Turned TV on this morning and I had the dreaded helicopter noise coming from TV speakers. I guess so time last night TiVo decided to send DD 5.1 instead of PCM stereo. Since I had the generic artwork and missing icons I just did a reboot.
I just feel like doing an Elvis on these TiVo's and put them out of their misery. Maybe preserve some of my sanity to.


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## gmacted (Sep 27, 2013)

Not to jinx myself, but I haven't seen the PCM problem in about a week. I just received the 20.7.1 RC2 update yesterday.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

I switched to optical a while back, having grown weary of the insanity. I'll switch back today, see what happens.

I also has issues for a few days with the HDMI output simply disappearing totally (started a different thread for that), and that seems to have stopped. For now.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

This problem is definitely fixed with20.7.1 RC2. I just received the update this afternoon and thoroughly tested it and the TiVo now responds to audio changes when bringing the receiver in and out of standby. It only took 1 year and two months to get this working right again but hey at least it is fixed for now.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Good news. Hope it's consistent.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

dougdingle said:


> Mine never goes to sleep, and I have the issue anyway.
> 
> And lately I noticed that my Mini has started putting out DD 2.0 stereo in many situations, both watching live and playback. Same channels and same recorded shows on the Roamio itself are all at DD 5.1 like they should be. No way to get the Mini to put out 5.1 on certain channels and recordings, no matter what I try, including rebooting it.
> 
> It's quite maddening. I didn't spend the money on a decent AVR and 5.1 speakers for the bedroom to have stereo from a decade or two ago.


It's actually sending out DD2.0 instead of DD5.1? Or is it PCM 2.0? If it's sending DD 2.0 instead of DD 5.1 that would be another issue. And a weird one at that.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> It's actually sending out DD2.0 instead of DD5.1? Or is it PCM 2.0? If it's sending DD 2.0 instead of DD 5.1 that would be another issue. And a weird one at that.


When it happens, the DD indicator lights up on the Marantz AVR's front panel, the display says "Stereo", and I have left, right, and (I think) center channel speakers driven. I'm not certain the center channel is driven, and I won't be home until this evening to check. The Mini is set to DD.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dougdingle said:


> When it happens, the DD indicator lights up on the Marantz AVR's front panel, the display says "Stereo", and I have left, right, and (I think) center channel speakers driven. I'm not certain the center channel is driven, and I won't be home until this evening to check. The Mini is set to DD.


There's a simple way to get feedback on PCM or Dolby. Enable sound effects. If your Mini is sending PCM, sound effects will always be active. If it's sending DD, sound effects stop when there is live video. So while watching real time video, hit the guide button. If you can hear sound effects when moving up/down, you are in PCM. If no sound effects, you are in DD. BTW, I get DD 2.0 on Comedy Central and most small sub-channel stations, like Comet.

Depending on your AVR options, a center channel can be active with DD 2.0. You can see that with your Yamaha with the OSD. I don't know how a Marantz does it. My "Music" is set to 7 Channel Stereo on my RX-V867. If I set it to 2ch Stereo the middle channel goes away. Also, I have my sub set to only function with an LFE present. It's my indicator for 5.1 vs. Stereo.


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## gmacted (Sep 27, 2013)

JoeKustra said:


> There's a simple way to get feedback on PCM or Dolby. Enable sound effects. If your Mini is sending PCM, sound effects will always be active. If it's sending DD, sound effects stop when there is live video. So while watching real time video, hit the guide button. If you can hear sound effects when moving up/down, you are in PCM. If no sound effects, you are in DD.


This is how I would know that my Roamio Pro had dropped into PCM mode. When I woke up the Roamio, I would press the TiVo button and would hear the sound effects. When DD5.1 is active, I can not hear the sound effects.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

gmacted said:


> This is how I would know that my Roamio Pro had dropped into PCM mode. When I woke up the Roamio, I would press the TiVo button and would hear the sound effects. When DD5.1 is active, I can not hear the sound effects.


Guess I can't help since I never put my TiVo into Standby. I do put my Mini into Standby. I see the PCM issue on my AVR about twice a year since I do power the AVR off. I just hit Pause twice to get DD back.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

The problem with the Roamio appears to have been fixed with the last update. Haven't seen the issue since then.

I continue to get a few channels (mostly PBS, strangely) on my Mini->Marantz that appear as Stereo where the same channels on the Roamio are DD. I suspect the Mini is defective in that regard somehow. I would swap it with another one I have that just feeds the kitchen TV, but it is currently buried and inaccessible.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dougdingle said:


> The problem with the Roamio appears to have been fixed with the last update. Haven't seen the issue since then.
> 
> I continue to get a few channels (mostly PBS, strangely) on my Mini->Marantz that appear as Stereo where the same channels on the Roamio are DD. I suspect the Mini is defective in that regard somehow. I would swap it with another one I have that just feeds the kitchen TV, but it is currently buried and inaccessible.


I get many channels in DD 2.0 since that's the way they are sent. SyFy, PBS and "oldie" stuff like TVLand are usually DD 2.0. My kitchen Mini always sends DD 2.0 to its TV since it's a 24" LG that tells the Mini it won't accept DD 5.1.


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## dougdingle (Jul 4, 2007)

Yes, but the same channels are proper DD 5.1 at the Roamio, and sound like it. 

I watch music concerts on PBS, and I know it's a 5.1 mix on the Roamio, but on the Mini setup it's just a poor stereo mix. I would say that fewer than half a dozen channels I watch have the problem, but it's still annoying.

I should get off my lazy butt and try one of the other Minis I have in that location, see what's what.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

dougdingle said:


> Yes, but the same channels are proper DD 5.1 at the Roamio, and sound like it.
> I watch music concerts on PBS, and I know it's a 5.1 mix on the Roamio, but on the Mini setup it's just a poor stereo mix. I would say that fewer than half a dozen channels I watch have the problem, but it's still annoying.
> I should get off my lazy butt and try one of the other Minis I have in that location, see what's what.


I did some digging. I see my PBS delivery is DD 2.0 right now. Also, I want to make a point. If you will enable sound effects to low, you can hear if it's PCM or DD2.0 since if you have live video (in a windows), and bring up the guide, the sound effects will start after a few keystrokes. It used to be the first keystroke until 20.7.1 was released. TiVo uses PCM whenever in any menu without a video window. Before swapping the Mini, I would see if it is sending DD 2.0 or PCM. I found my LG doesn't support DD, so it tells the Mini to send PCM.


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## jjeff (Feb 21, 2009)

I also immediately notice sound effects are much LOUDER when my Tivo is mistakenly set to PCM(I have my sound effects set to LOW). Also like you said, when set to 5.1 sound effects don't start right away, when in PCM they do.
My Roamio switches to PCM by itself when I _mistakenly _push than damn! blue?? _screen reader _button.


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