# Doctor Who - Deep Breath - OAD 8/23/2014



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

OK, so a new Doctor and some old faithful characters. I'm going for 'interesting'.

I like that they are laying the foundations for the new character and it'll take a little time to get used to him - and the Scottish accent! I did like the way Matt Smith was brought in to hand things over, as it were.

I'm reserving judgement, but it's looking promising.

Your thoughts?


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

I'm in. I think Capaldi is perfect. This is his "Fish Fingers" episode.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I thought it was an okay episode, not the best, but not the worst either. For a lengthy episode, it didn't seem like much was going on. 

Capaldi will take some getting used to and the writers seem to be very much aware of that, so much that they made Clara into a proxy and had Matt Smith phone "us" and basically say to give Capaldi a chance. 

It will be interesting to find out who the Doctor's "girlfriend" is. Have we ever seen her before?


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

Okay, but not great. Wondering where they are going with the "seen this face before" bit.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

The face the Doctor was using as a disguise was an exaggerated Matt Smith face.


--Carlos V.


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## Agatha Mystery (Feb 12, 2002)

I assume the face he had seen before was a throwback to the anniversary episode where we saw his eyes. 

It's going to take a bit too get used to the accent. I missed a few words. 

The scene at the end reminded me of another set that they have used. It reminded me of one of the rooms from "The girl who waited" episode.


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

I loved the new opening credits.


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## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

kaszeta said:


> Okay, but not great. Wondering where they are going with the "seen this face before" bit.


I'm guessing this will tie in to the fact that Peter Capaldi was already on Doctor Who in the "Fires of Pompeii" episode and also on Torchwood. This would mean he's played three different characters in the Doctor Who universe, so maybe they want to tie all those together.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

Of course it is very early, but so far....I really like him! I was very afraid I would not, so I am a bit relieved.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Jagman_sl said:


> I'm guessing this will tie in to the fact that Peter Capaldi was already on Doctor Who in the "Fires of Pompeii" episode and also on Torchwood. This would mean he's played three different characters in the Doctor Who universe, so maybe they want to tie all those together.


My guess too. They used a similar deceit with Romana in the original series. The Fires of Pompeii was about the Doctor straying too much from his humanity and Donna bringing him back. That may be why he chose that face. (The Doctor never met the Torchwood character.)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

59er said:


> I loved the new opening credits.


They were good but I never wanted the warp setting to go away.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I liked it as much as can be expected for a handover/first episode. Never really a fan of those. I like Capaldi.

The "I remember this" stuff was bugging me because I kept feeling like I could remember it also but maybe it was from the preview 

Nice to see Matt (totally a surprise to me though it turned out my son, and many others, knew it was coming)

I assume the woman in the garden is the one trying to keep them together.


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

I liked it a lot. I actually think the interactions between him and Clara were so much better than Matt Smith's and hers. The new Doctor and Clara just seem to click more.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Ahh a bit of research has revealed the "I've seen this before". Not really a spoiler, since it's from a previous episode, but just in case.



Spoiler



From the Girl in the Fireplace, same clockwork aliens and SS Madame de Pompodour sister ship to this one


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## NJChris (May 11, 2001)

That's what I thought too, especially since he talked about that exact thing to the captain robot guy.


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

NJChris said:


> I liked it a lot. I actually think the interactions between him and Clara were so much better than Matt Smith's and hers. The new Doctor and Clara just seem to click more.


Absolutely in agreement.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

NJChris said:


> That's what I thought too, especially since he talked about that exact thing to the captain robot guy.


My memory is horrible so I didn't remember without a hint from an episode review and some searching.


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

59er said:


> I loved the new opening credits.


They were fan inspired.

The producers saw this:






And decided to approach the fan and make it into a real opener.

--Carlos V.


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## secondclaw (Oct 3, 2004)

I really liked it. It was certainly a bit light on story, but I really like the new, not sure of himself, Doctor. And maybe they found good use for Clara.
P.S. I love Strax ...


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

secondclaw said:


> P.S. I love Strax ...


"We will burn him with acid!"
"About that last bit...."
"We will *not* burn him with acid!"

--Carlos V.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

I liked it a lot - especially the return to longer lines of dialogue. And Vastra conning Jenny to pose.

Missy is scary.

But a big question has got to be - did a darker Doctor throw Half Face Man out of the basket?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

He may not be very good at it, but Strax makes more of an effort to be human than some humans I know...


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Tomorrow is the season finale of The Musketeers, where Capaldi has been appearing as Cardinal Richelieu.

Nice that the folks at BBCA have arranged things so we don't have to go without our Capaldi fix.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

_Old fashioned Doctor lesson in morality:_

*Madam Vastra:* I wear a veil to keep from view what many are pleased
to call my disfigurement.

I do not wear it as a courtesy to such people, but as a judgment on the quality of their hearts.

_Scary Lady:_

*Missy:* Hello! I'm Missy. You made it. I hope my boyfriend wasn't too mean to you.

*Half Faced Man:* Boy...friend?

*Missy:* Now did he push you out of that thing, or did you fall?

*Half Faced Man:* Couldn't really tell.

*Missy:* He can be very mean sometimes, except to me, of course, because he...loves me so much. I do like his new accent, though. Think I might keep it.

*Half Faced Man:* Where am I?

*Missy:* Well, where do you think you are? Look around you, you made it. The promised land. Paradise!

Welcome...

..to heaven.


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## stargazer21 (May 22, 2002)

We loved it.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Unbeliever said:


> "We will burn him with acid!"
> "About that last bit...."
> "We will *not* burn him with acid!"
> 
> --Carlos V.


Strax is my vote for next companion. Along with Lizard lady and her wife.

I'd watch a show with those three characters. Solving crimes in old London...


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Just thought of something. How nicely done the phone call was in terms of continuity from last season. In Time of the Doctor, not only did we get a time when the Doctor was away from Clara but also we had the repeated "gag" of the Doctor having to reconnect the outside phone to the central control room. And even the part where Clara hangs up the phone which was obviously just after the call. 

That's good planning.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Gunnyman said:


> Strax is my vote for next companion. Along with Lizard lady and her wife. I'd watch a show with those three characters. Solving crimes in old London...


Just had a funny thought. The Paternoster Adventures. They could inherit K9.


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

The first episodes of a new Doctor are always long on introduction, skimpy on plot. Neither the Christmas Invasion and the Eleventh Hour were classics. This one reminded me more of when Tennant took over, with Clara playing the part of Rose, since Matt Smith got to start with a new companion who hadn't known him during his previous incarnation.

The 12th Doctor is over 2,000 years old now? 11 was only 907 or so when he started. I know he was on Trenzalore for a few centuries and they kind of glossed over him being gone for long stretches of time here and there during the Amy Pond years, but I didn't think it had been that long.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

It's possible that 11 was lying about his age, given that he wouldn't want to even acknowledge the time he spent as the War Doctor.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> It's possible that 11 was lying about his age, given that he wouldn't want to even acknowledge the time he spent as the War Doctor.


In Day of the Doctor, 11 acknowledges that he doesn't actually know his age as he has lied about it so often, he's lost track. In the old series, Jon Pertwee's Doctor was older than David Tennant's, so it was a cover for the continuity errors over the years.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I didn't like the first 45 minutes at all. Strax was the only good part of that segment. It got much better and interesting once the Doctor stopped being an addled brained old coot and became the Doctor. Then it pissed me off in the final minutes when the Doctors had to beg Clara to give the new Doctor a shot. I felt that was insulting. At least they're getting away from the subplot of the female companions having a crush on the Doctor.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Not really sure that planning one episode ahead is really great planning. And I don't believe that the phone number in the store was planning, more just leaving a thread to decide what to do with later.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> Not really sure that planning one episode ahead is really great planning. And I don't believe that the phone number in the store was planning, more just leaving a thread to decide what to do with later.


It is over two seasons. Involving different actors in the same role. It was probably filmed with the last episode of last year. And the phone gag was threaded into the episode.

Jesus. We have seen how intricate and planned small details have been with Doctor Who the past several years and you just think it was a throwaway.

Go back and watch the scenes. I did before posting. It wasn't just a loose end they picked up later. It was planned. The moment where Clara picks up the phone last season was deliberate, not just a happy circumstance.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

morac said:


> It will be interesting to find out who the Doctor's "girlfriend" is. Have we ever seen her before?


One of the possibilities is last time we saw her she was a he.

Another possibility is that we have seen her in just about every eposode.

For now I do not think she is the unseen girl in the shop.



Spoiler



Missy could be the Master, she could be the TARDIS



Looking at her umbrella and clothes I am wondering if we are meant to channel a bunny boiling Mary Poppins.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

Maybe she's Sally Sparrow


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

I'm not as well-versed in the classic episodes as I'd like to be, but in terms of "NuWho" I think this is easily the best post-regeneration episode. I do think it probably could have been tightened up into a one-hour slot, but otherwise I thought it was about as good as you could hope for in introducing a new Doctor. And Capaldi looks like he's going to be everything I'd hoped he might be. I haven't found Clara to be as objectionable as many people seem to, but I thought she had more to do in this ep, and did it better. 

I wish they hadn't been quite so blatant about telling us viewers to give this new Doctor a chance, but I often think Moffat tries a bit too hard, so I suppose I'm not too surprised. But now I'm just picking nits.

Off to a great start IMO.


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## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

The Doctor said he was stuck in Christmas waiting for the Tardis for 300 years the first time Clara returned, so it was certainly longer than that when she came back the final time.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

The new credit sequence is way too blatantly steampunk in the beginning.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

As I said, planned one episode ago. Thanks for confirming.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

pgogborn said:


> ...a bunny boiling Mary Poppins.


I get the "Mary Poppins" part. I thought the scene was meant to invoke memories of Mary Poppins. What I don't get is the "a bunny boiling" part. Is this a British idiom or something?


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## Jstkiddn (Oct 15, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> I get the "Mary Poppins" part. I thought the scene was meant to invoke memories of Mary Poppins. What I don't get is the "a bunny boiling" part. Is this a British idiom or something?


Fatal Attraction.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> As I said, planned one episode ago. Thanks for confirming.


God you are obstinate. One episode ago makes it sound like it was last week. You won't give credit at all to good planning.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

You should see the Big Bang Theory threads.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

busyba said:


> You should see the Big Bang Theory threads.


I do. 

But I try not to connect people with thoughts from topic to topic. I try to treat each post as an individual thought. A vain attempt to try to avoid prejudice.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> I get the "Mary Poppins" part. I thought the scene was meant to invoke memories of Mary Poppins. What I don't get is the "a bunny boiling" part. Is this a British idiom or something?


To expand on Jstkiddn

Bunny boiler
n
1. a person, esp a woman, who is considered to be emotionally unstable and likely to be dangerously vengeful
[C20: from the 1987 film Fatal Attraction, in which a female character boils a pet rabbit to terrorize the family of the lover who spurns her >
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bunny+boiler


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> It's possible that 11 was lying about his age, given that he wouldn't want to even acknowledge the time he spent as the War Doctor.


He did spend enough time defending Christmas to almost die of old age though, so he's pretty darn old.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

So, a few thoughts on the episode and the doctor in general. 

1: I like Capaldi as the doctor. I think he'll bring a gravitas back that's been missing for a long time. I also think he'll bring back a feeling of the doctor being an alien. Something we kinda lost with Tennant & Smith's version of the doctor. 

2: I thought the regeneration confusion went on a bit long. And Clara shouldn't have been so confused, closed-minded and upset about it. After all, she was inside the Doctor's time stream a d had seen all of his incarnations. It just felt wrong for her to react the way she did. I also felt that Vastra, Strax, & Jenny were a bit off in the beginning including their interactions with Clara. It felt like all that happened on Trenzalore between them was forgotten by everyone. They all (Clara & the three) seemed very uncomfortable with each other. 

3: Having seen The Day of the Doctor a few times recently, it now makes sense why Eccleston sought out Rose Tyler as soon as his Regeneration was completed. Though Rose herself is in a bit of a paradox loop.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Craigbob said:


> 2: I thought the regeneration confusion went on a bit long. And Clara shouldn't have been so confused, closed-minded and upset about it. After all, she was inside the Doctor's time stream a d had seen all of his incarnations. It just felt wrong for her to react the way she did. I also felt that Vastra, Strax, & Jenny were a bit off in the beginning including their interactions with Clara. It felt like all that happened on Trenzalore between them was forgotten by everyone. They all (Clara & the three) seemed very uncomfortable with each other.


I don't disagree, but with Moffat in the loop, I wonder if he is just playing with us again.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Craigbob said:


> 2: I thought the regeneration confusion went on a bit long. And Clara shouldn't have been so confused, closed-minded and upset about it. After all, she was inside the Doctor's time stream a d had seen all of his incarnations. It just felt wrong for her to react the way she did. I also felt that Vastra, Strax, & Jenny were a bit off in the beginning including their interactions with Clara. It felt like all that happened on Trenzalore between them was forgotten by everyone. They all (Clara & the three) seemed very uncomfortable with each other.


Well, it seems to me that once Clara entered the Doctor's time stream, she was "shattered" into various echoes of herself, ones that she wouldn't recall anything of. Case in point, Clara seems to know nothing of the Victorian scullery maid _cum_ nanny, or Oswin Oswald from the Alaska. As such, I'm fairly certain she recalls nothing between when she stepped into the time stream, and when she landed and the Doctor rescued her.

Similarly, she also doesn't seem to recall anything of the "Day of the Doctor," other than what the Doctor has told her, due to the "time streams" being "out of sync." Granted, I'm less certain of this than of the above, though.

In any case, it's easy to know that the Doctor regenerates; it's much harder to have it happen right in front of you, and have a new Doctor appear, particularly when he is completely discombobulated as he is after a regeneration - and (at least at first) doesn't even recall Clara or how to fly the TARDIS. That's enough to freak just about anyone out.

To her credit, though, she immediately acknowledges him as the Doctor to Vastra and Jenny after he collapses on the edge of the Thames, so her freak out is not so much that the Doctor is gone - it's just that the Doctor has so radically changed from what she's familiar with. Once the Doctor starts to gain his bearings, so too does Clara.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> Well, it seems to me that once Clara entered the Doctor's time stream, she was "shattered" into various echoes of herself, ones that she wouldn't recall anything of. Case in point, Clara seems to know nothing of the Victorian scullery maid cum nanny, or Oswin Oswald from the Alaska. As such, I'm fairly certain she recalls nothing between when she stepped into the time stream, and when she landed and the Doctor rescued her. Similarly, she also doesn't seem to recall anything of the "Day of the Doctor," other than what the Doctor has told her, due to the "time streams" being "out of sync." I'm less certain of this than of the above, though. In any case, it's easy to know that the Doctor regenerates; it's much harder to have it happen right in front of you, and have a new Doctor appear, particularly when he is completely discombobulated as he is after a regeneration - and (at least at first) doesn't even recall Clara or how to fly the TARDIS. That's enough to freak just about anyone out. To her credit, though, she immediately acknowledges him as the Doctor to Vastra and Jenny after he collapses on the edge of the Thames, so her freak out is not so much that the Doctor is gone - it's just that the Doctor has so radically changed from what she's familiar with. Once the Doctor starts to gain his bearings, so too does Clara.


Great analysis. Or should I say Spot on!

Add that she doesn't know Amelia (Time of the Doctor) or Amy (Deep Breath), so it is safe to say she doesn't have the collective knowledge of the splintered Clara.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> Once the Doctor starts to gain his bearings, so too does Clara.


Except even at the end after the Doctor was acting normal, Clara was still ready to leave him because he was too different than she was used to. I think Clara was partially prepared for the physical change (though she expected him to be the same physical age), but she wasn't prepared for the personality change.


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## Gerryex (Apr 24, 2004)

morac said:


> I thought it was an okay episode, not the best, but not the worst either. For a lengthy episode, it didn't seem like much was going on.


Yes I agree! Frankly I was a little disappointed in the plot of the episode itself and the too much time they spent on the Dr's confusion after regeneration. I'm one of the "old" guys and saw almost ALL of the episodes of ALL of the Drs, with the exception of a few Hartnel episodes and sure after each regeneration the Dr is confused but come on - it was way too much.

I may be in a minority but I didn't like Capaldi at all. Maybe he'll grow on me but for Tennant and Smith I liked them both almost instantly.

And I just don't see any chemistry between Clara and the Dr. I assume it will get better but again at least to me there was very good chemistry between the companions and the Tennant and Smith Drs.

So overall I was kind of disappointed and even fell asleep through half of it and had to back it up to watch again. Hopefully everything will get better and either way I'll still watch but still a disappointment.

Gerry


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> the Victorian scullery maid _cum_ nanny


I see what you did there...


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

busyba said:


> I see what you did there...


You'd have to clue me in, because I don't.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> You'd have to clue me in, because I don't.


I _bet_ she's her cum nanny.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

p.s.: I'm 12. 



p.p.s: only metaphorically


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

One thing nobody here mentioned, and I predict it will turn out to be another master Moffat planning thing: the Doctor asked Clara where she got his phone number for the TARDIS, back in the first Clara episode. I think the answer to this question will be significant.


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## pteronaut (Dec 26, 2009)

Maybe it's because the late Robin Williams is on my mind, but I noticed two references to him in the same scene.

When The Doctor & Clara were taken down into the SS Marie Antoinette, and escaped from the seat belts, The Doctor spoke "Captain, my Captain" (albeit quoting the original not the DPS scene referencing it) and then commenting on the robot turning itself human (Bicentennial Man)

Of course, that scene was written and filmed well before this recent tragedy, and I probably would not have made those connections had Mr. Williams had not succumb to his depression.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

master Moffat planning? 

i thought it was OK but everything that was wrong about it reeked of Moffat.

Peter Capaldi was fine - I prefer a know it all doctor to a confused one (Moffat not Capaldi). 

Clara has never been interesting to me. 
Hopefully a new companion is on the way.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> One thing nobody here mentioned, and I predict it will turn out to be another master Moffat planning thing: the Doctor asked Clara where she got his phone number for the TARDIS, back in the first Clara episode. I think the answer to this question will be significant.


It's the woman in "paradise" isn't it ?


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## stargazer21 (May 22, 2002)

We're kinda playing with a theory of Missy being an embodied sum of the Doctor's mistakes that he's made. Kinda like the Dream Lord in Amy's Choice. It may or may not be a BBC coincidence that Missy's "Heaven" is the same garden as we saw in The Girl Who Waited.


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

kaszeta said:


> Okay, but not great. Wondering where they are going with the "seen this face before" bit.


I thought this was purely to explain away Capaldi being the actor in Fires of Pompeii.



JohnB1000 said:


> Ahh a bit of research has revealed the "I've seen this before". Not really a spoiler, since it's from a previous episode, but just in case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As soon as we heard the clicking of the robots (in the restaurant, I think) I said to my family "they sound just like the robots in The Girl in the Fireplace."


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

kaszeta said:


> Okay, but not great. Wondering where they are going with the "seen this face before" bit.





JETarpon said:


> I thought this was purely to explain away Capaldi being the actor in Fires of Pompeii.


And in Torchwood: Children of Earth as Frobisher.

It was just a humorous line to "hang a lantern" on the fact that he has appeared twice before within the Doctor Who extended universe. I think it is unlikely that they intend to do anything more with it.

(IIRC, they did a similar sort of line of dialogue when Freema Agyeman became Martha Jones, after having previously appeared in the Doctor Who episode "Army of Ghosts" as a generic Torchwood employee.)


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## AeneaGames (May 2, 2009)

LoadStar said:


> And in Torchwood: Children of Earth as Frobisher.
> 
> It was just a humorous line to "hang a lantern" on the fact that he has appeared twice before within the Doctor Who extended universe. I think it is unlikely that they intend to do anything more with it.
> 
> (IIRC, they did a similar sort of line of dialogue when Freema Agyeman became Martha Jones, after having previously appeared in the Doctor Who episode "Army of Ghosts" as a generic Torchwood employee.)


Also with 'Gwen Cooper' who appeared in Doctor Who before she got the role on Torchwood.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> I thought this was purely to explain away Capaldi being the actor in Fires of Pompeii.


That's what I thought - but I have watched it a second time and now I am not so sure. There was a lot of dialogue about why had that particular type of face, not just that it was one he/we had seen in the past.

Probably not connected but watching it a second time I noticed not only did Clara say she had a picture of a Roman Emperor on her wall, the statue head in the ballon basket was possibly Roman, the Doctor said some of the droids metalwork looked Roman (and Calpaldi is Italian ).


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Philosofy said:


> One thing nobody here mentioned, and I predict it will turn out to be another master Moffat planning thing: the Doctor asked Clara where she got his phone number for the TARDIS, back in the first Clara episode. I think the answer to this question will be significant.


And shortly thereafter we cut to Missy in the garden with the clockwork android. Connect the dots and Missy is the woman who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number.

Now how she knows it is tbd


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## JETarpon (Jan 1, 2003)

pgogborn said:


> That's what I thought - but I have watched it a second time and now I am not so sure. There was a lot of dialogue about why had that particular type of face, not just that it was one he/we had seen in the past.


The had to fill time for the long episode. Some stuff ran into extended dialog unnecessarily. The alley scene. The medical exam. The face.

I could be wrong.


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## Jagman_sl (Mar 14, 2001)

Looks like Moffat is planning on going somewhere with it after all...

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-08-23/peter-capaldis-doctor-considers-the-mystery-of-his-recurring-face-in-debut-doctor-who-episode

http://www.kasterborous.com/2013/09/moffat-capaldi-appearances-theory-will-included-video/


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Despite some derisive comments here and elsewhere on the internet about Moffat and planning ahead, we should have learned by now that little he puts into the show is a throwaway, and I don't think the "I've seen this face" stuff is a throwaway at all.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

I thought the episode was a bit long and drawn out, but probably necessary for the proper transition to occur and have Clara and the rest of the characters accept Capaldi as the new Doctor. I think once Capaldi settles into the role he'll do fine. I've found that I've grown to like each new Doctor a little more than the last (at least with the new series from 2005 on) so I have high hopes for Capaldi.


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

Is it just me but why does BBCA on DirectTV seem to broadcast Dr. Who in SD, even though it is labelled in the guide as HD? "Intruders" right after it was in HD and many other shows are in HD on the channel, it seems to be just Dr. Who that gets this special treatment.

As for the episode, it was kind of "meh" for me but I remember thinking the first David Tennant episode was also that way to me and Tennant is my favorite Dr. now. So I will happily give Capaldi a chance at the role.

Always entertained by Drax. 

I'm amused that a lesbian relationship isn't edgy enough now, we've have to go for interspecies lesbian relationships.

I just thought the lady at the end was the Tardis. She's manifested as a woman before and I can see her as thinking of the Dr. as her boyfriend. The familiarity she had with him seems to indicate a long time acquaintance with the Dr. I thought the garden at the end was just some sort of computer simulation/Tardis warp space bubble/etc.


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## eddyj (Jun 20, 2002)

ehusen said:


> Is it just me but why does BBCA on DirectTV seem to broadcast Dr. Who in SD, even though it is labelled in the guide as HD?


I think it is you. I already deleted it, but I am pretty sure I would have noticed if it was in SD.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

eddyj said:


> I think it is you. I already deleted it, but I am pretty sure I would have noticed if it was in SD.


Same here. I would have deleted it instantly if it were in SD and looked to download the HD version. I never watch anything SD.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

ehusen said:


> Is it just me but why does BBCA on DirectTV seem to broadcast Dr. Who in SD, even though it is labelled in the guide as HD?


It is you. Definitely HD.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I watched it with headphones on because it was around 7 am and I wanted to hear it with the volume turned up. There were a couple of times where the background music was so loud that I could barely hear the dialogue.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

I always have that problem with this show. Between the accents, the British colloquialisms, the explosions, the music and the dialogue spoken while running around, I've ended up resorting to always watching Who with the captions turned on.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

LoadStar said:


> It was just a humorous line to "hang a lantern" on the fact that he has appeared twice before within the Doctor Who extended universe. I think it is unlikely that they intend to do anything more with it.


Actually...



Spoiler



Moffat has said in interviews that the Capaldi-face is going to be addressed, based on an idea RTD had about how faces are chosen for regenerations. From the interview, I got the impression that it's going to be at least slightly more than just the lantern-hang we got.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

ThePennyDropped said:


> I always have that problem with this show. Between the accents, the British colloquialisms, the explosions, the music and the dialogue spoken while running around, I've ended up resorting to always watching Who with the captions turned on.


Me too.

Were the captions behaving oddly for you? For pretty much any episode from the DW marathon, up to and including the premiere, the captions would just randomly come and go, where there would be stretches of a minute or two where the captions simply wouldn't show and then it would just start up again.

I haven't seen this behavior anywhere but on BBC-A, and only in the last few days.


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## ThePennyDropped (Jul 5, 2006)

I didn't notice any issues with the captions at all, actually.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

busyba said:


> Me too.
> 
> Were the captions behaving oddly for you? For pretty much any episode from the DW marathon, up to and including the premiere, the captions would just randomly come and go, where there would be stretches of a minute or two where the captions simply wouldn't show and then it would just start up again.
> 
> I haven't seen this behavior anywhere but on BBC-A, and only in the last few days.


I see this issue quite a lot, but particularly on BBC-A. They'll come and go, and sometimes they'll be all garbled up.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

ThePennyDropped said:


> I always have that problem with this show. Between the accents, the British colloquialisms, the explosions, the music and the dialogue spoken while running around, I've ended up resorting to always watching Who with the captions turned on.


I always watch Who with captions on too. I had no problem with them.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> It is you. Definitely HD.


Definitely HD. And definitely a lot of computer imagery as well, and in true DW fashion, the effects were more than a little cheesy.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

The medical exam scene was in there based on a children's show competition to design devices for the characters.

I don't think Moffat fully plans that far ahead. Even he has said that he leaves threads then decides what to do with them later. I did feel the face comments had a purpose though.


----------



## Pralix (Dec 8, 2001)

Clara hesitance about the new Doctor is a metaphor for the changing audience demographics. The new DW series has pulled in a lot more younger female viewers than the original series. They are used to the Doctor being young and handsome as opposed to the older actors from the original series. There may be some reluctance amongst them to the change to a much older actor playing the Doctor.


----------



## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

LoadStar said:


> In any case, it's easy to know that the Doctor regenerates; it's much harder to have it happen right in front of you, and have a new Doctor appear, particularly when he is completely discombobulated as he is after a regeneration - and (at least at first) doesn't even recall Clara or how to fly the TARDIS. That's enough to freak just about anyone out.


And on top of that, this wasn't just any normal regeneration. This was a regeneration of regenerations. So that likely contributed to his increased eccentricities.



morac said:


> Except even at the end after the Doctor was acting normal, Clara was still ready to leave him because he was too different than she was used to. I think Clara was partially prepared for the physical change (though she expected him to be the same physical age), but she wasn't prepared for the personality change.


I also think that part of what helped Rose not freak out as much was her relief that she wasn't responsible for his death. Clara didn't have that. In fact, she was responsible for his life. For a brief moment the Doctor she knew had been restored, and then in a blink of an eye he was gone.



busyba said:


> Actually...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



RTD's idea was actually about how to explain Capaldi's other two roles. He had that idea even before Capaldi was cast as the Doctor. Apparently the idea still works with Capaldi as the Doctor, so Moffat is going to incorpoate that into the show.



I enjoyed the premiere overall. The slower pace did not bother me. I thought it was, as the title indicated, a nice "deep breath" to re-introduce us to the Doctor, especially after such a long hiatus from regular episodes. It was good to see the "London 3" again. I'm glad they have become regularly recurring characters. Although every time I see Vastra I wonder if she knows that a bunch of her people are hibernating nearby, and that the Doctor knows right where they are. If not, would she be angry at him if she found out? And if so, did the Doctor convince her that the time was not right for them to be revived? I suppose having Jenny helps. But still, I'm sure she would like to have more of her species around.

Strax was entertaining as always. I hope we get to see him many more times before he dies a horrible death at the hands of his greatest enemy.

I'm also glad they cleared up the question I had about who had given Clara the Doctor's phone number. When she first told the Doctor that a woman in a shop had given her the number, and said it was the "best helpline in the universe", I figured it was River. But then Clara didn't recognize River when they finally met, which was confusing. One explanation might have been that River was in disguise, but uploaded River should have recognized Clara. River might have simply been pretending not to know Clara, but then why even allude to her in the first place? Was the whole "woman in a shop" conversation merely a wink and a nod to the audience?

It's good to see that Moffat is planning on developing that seed that was planted when we first met Clara. It will also be interesting to see what River has to say about this other woman who considers the Doctor her boyfriend. If Missy is an incarnation of the TARDIS, River might accept that. Otherwise...well, it should be fun.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

I fell asleep while trying to watch it, two separate times.

No sold on Capaldi so far, but it usually takes me half a series to get used to a new Doctor anyway.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Pralix said:


> Clara hesitance about the new Doctor is a metaphor for the changing audience demographics. The new DW series has pulled in a lot more younger female viewers than the original series. They are used to the Doctor being young and handsome as opposed to the older actors from the original series. There may be some reluctance amongst them to the change to a much older actor playing the Doctor.


But Matt Smith was not a handsome guy. Young, yes but good looking? No.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Pralix said:


> Clara hesitance about the new Doctor is a metaphor for the changing audience demographics. The new DW series has pulled in a lot more younger female viewers than the original series. They are used to the Doctor being young and handsome as opposed to the older actors from the original series. There may be some reluctance amongst them to the change to a much older actor playing the Doctor.


Thank you. Do you state the obvious often 

This has really rankled the hardcore fans on podcasts and what have you. They hate the hand holding and then hate even more that Matt Smith appeared so deep into the show when you were finally beginning to accept Capaldi.


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

JohnB1000 said:


> They hate the hand holding and then hate even more that Matt Smith appeared so deep into the show when you were finally beginning to accept Capaldi.


That reminds me of one question they introduced just after they had answered my question about the mysterious woman in the shop. How did 11 know he was going to regenerate? I thought the whole point of The Time of the Doctor was that he thought he was going to die permanently.

It was a moving scene, but I was distracted by that question for most of it.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

The Timelords at Trenzalore gave him a huge boost of regeneration energy. At the end of the Time of The Doctor he could feel the regeneration starting.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> That reminds me of one question they introduced just after they had answered my question about the mysterious woman in the shop. How did 11 know he was going to regenerate? I thought the whole point of The Time of the Doctor was that he thought he was going to die permanently. It was a moving scene, but I was distracted by that question for most of it.


It happened after he got the energy from the Time Lords, the same energy he used to blast the Daleks from the sky. He got young again and said it was only the beginning of the regen. A reset. He called the regen a "Whopper " both on the phone and to Clara in person.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Oh. And to add. Each generation of the Doctor does die. It feels like they are dying to them. They don't want to go (as Tennant said twice). So, any speech at the end is because THAT Doctor is dying. Even though they know they will live on. Or they assume as such. They could actually die during a regeneration.


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## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> It is you. Definitely HD.


Okay fair enough, but I haven't a clue how to fix it. Any thoughts? I do info on my TV and it says "480i" (i.e. no HD), the picture is actually showing in letterbox, but with black on the sides too (it looks like a picture frame around it so the picture is smaller too). It's just bizarre that it only happens with certain shows. Normal HD programs will fill the entire TV just fine.

Could my HDMI be doing something weird? I just don't understand it.

Sorry to threadjack again.


----------



## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

ehusen said:


> Okay fair enough, but I haven't a clue how to fix it. Any thoughts? I do info on my TV and it says "480i" (i.e. no HD), the picture is actually showing in letterbox, but with black on the sides too (it looks like a picture frame around it so the picture is smaller too). It's just bizarre that it only happens with certain shows. Normal HD programs will fill the entire TV just fine.


Are you recording off of BBCA instead of BBCA-HD?

If it is BBCA-HD, then you either have your TiVo set up to output 480i (try pressing up arrow on remote) or the TV is.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

ehusen said:


> Okay fair enough, but I haven't a clue how to fix it. Any thoughts? I do info on my TV and it says "480i" (i.e. no HD), the picture is actually showing in letterbox, but with black on the sides too (it looks like a picture frame around it so the picture is smaller too). It's just bizarre that it only happens with certain shows. Normal HD programs will fill the entire TV just fine. Could my HDMI be doing something weird? I just don't understand it. Sorry to threadjack again.


I think I understand. This is a directv dvr? You probably had the doctor who season pass for a long time (as in before they added bbca in HD), so it is recording from the sd channel, which is the same number.

Try deleting the season pass and recreating it from the guide, making sure you picked the HD one if you don't have hide SD duplicates turned on.


----------



## ehusen (Jan 7, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I think I understand. This is a directv dvr? You probably had the doctor who season pass for a long time (as in before they added bbca in HD), so it is recording from the sd channel, which is the same number.
> 
> Try deleting the season pass and recreating it from the guide, making sure you picked the HD one if you don't have hide SD duplicates turned on.


This makes perfect sense! Many thanks to you. That's what was so confusing to me. Other SPs on the same channel were fine, that was what was so confusing. (I have hide SD duplicates turned on). But the Dr. Who SP is probably quite old and before BBCA was in HD.

I will let you know if that works but I'm betting that is the problem.

Again, thanks.


----------



## Linnemir (Apr 7, 2009)

pteronaut said:


> Maybe it's because the late Robin Williams is on my mind, but I noticed two references to him in the same scene.
> 
> When The Doctor & Clara were taken down into the SS Marie Antoinette, and escaped from the seat belts, The Doctor spoke "Captain, my Captain" (albeit quoting the original not the DPS scene referencing it) and then commenting on the robot turning itself human (Bicentennial Man)
> 
> Of course, that scene was written and filmed well before this recent tragedy, and I probably would not have made those connections had Mr. Williams had not succumb to his depression.


That would be the Walt Whitman version of the poem, which I find and depressing in itself ...


----------



## Linnemir (Apr 7, 2009)

Craigbob said:


> And shortly thereafter we cut to Missy in the garden with the clockwork android. Connect the dots and Missy is the woman who gave Clara the Doctor's phone number.
> 
> Now how she knows it is tbd


Haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but the first thing I thought when we saw the woman in "Heaven" was, "It's the Rhanee!"


----------



## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

Linnemir said:


> Haven't seen anyone mention it yet, but the first thing I thought when we saw the woman in "Heaven" was, "It's the Rhanee!"


I think you mean The Rani. That was mentioned on the Doctor Who podcast but, just to a memory that can barely remember last week, I had to look her up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_(Doctor_Who)


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

JETarpon said:


> The had to fill time for the long episode. Some stuff ran into extended dialog unnecessarily. The alley scene. The medical exam. The face.
> 
> I could be wrong.


I hope you are correct.

I enjoyed the way Russell T Davies handled the recurring themes in the story, enjoyed the final explanations.

Not so with Steven Moffat.

(to slip in some praise for Moffat - I thought the telephone sequence was yet another enjoyable example of his excellent time wimey work)


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

BitbyBlit said:


> Strax was entertaining as always. I hope we get to see him many more times before he dies a horrible death at the hands of his greatest enemy.


I am sure you meant to post before he dies a glorious death at the hands of his greatest enemy


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

pgogborn said:


> I hope you are correct.
> 
> I enjoyed the way Russell T Davies handled the recurring themes in the story, enjoyed the final explanations.
> 
> ...


Your response doesn't seem to sync up with the post you are respoding to


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> Your response doesn't seem to sync up with the post you are respoding to


JETarpon said he "could be wrong" to think dialogue about the face is a one time space fill.

I said "I hope [JETarpon] is correct" about it being a one time space fill. I don't want to hear about the face again.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think Capaldi will make a fine Doctor, but I did have some problems with this episode. First, I'm just a little more than a casual viewer, not a die hard, memorize every episode guy. So I was confused about Clara wanting her Doctor back (Smith.) She's the Impossible Girl, who risked everything to save the Doctor in all is incarnations. She was shown interacting with almost all of them. And she remembered them: IIRC, she said she met 11 of them. So, out of all the companions, she should be the one who should accept the new Doctor from the first. Also, I believe she is the smartest companion we've ever seen. I don't think any other companion could have figured out to use the umbrella to pull down the ladder to the Tardis, or figured out that holding your breath could keep the robots off you. For her to act so stupidly and out of character so the audience could have a protagonist was poor writing. It should have been Vastra or Jenny who dislike the new Doctor, since they had only known Smith's version.

The other thing was poorly choreographed fight scene. It was worse than a 1970's Roger Moore James Bond movie.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> I think Capaldi will make a fine Doctor, but I did have some problems with this episode. First, I'm just a little more than a casual viewer, not a die hard, memorize every episode guy. So I was confused about Clara wanting her Doctor back (Smith.) She's the Impossible Girl, who risked everything to save the Doctor in all is incarnations. She was shown interacting with almost all of them.


See above where I respond to this. It seems fairly definitive that she has no knowledge of the "splinter" Claras.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Oh, I agree with you Load Star, but I didn't know that when watching the episode. What I did remember was her having that knowledge at one time. I don't remember it being explained why she doesn't know now. But that's just because I'm more of a casual viewer. Now, IMO, a better way to have handled it is have Jenny be the protagonist whom the viewer can identify with, or, even better, have the Doctor doing things that genuinely upset Clara, rather than her just wanting Smith back.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> Oh, I agree with you Load Star, but I didn't know that when watching the episode. What I did remember was her having that knowledge at one time. I don't remember it being explained why she doesn't know now. But that's just because I'm more of a casual viewer. Now, IMO, a better way to have handled it is have Jenny be the protagonist whom the viewer can identify with, or, even better, have the Doctor doing things that genuinely upset Clara, rather than her just wanting Smith back.


Maybe. It may be hard for a casual fan on details like that. For non casual fans, we know Clara does not remember her other selves. That has been established more than once. And it was repeated this week with her not remembering Amy or other details. Including the Time War ending (there was a hint that she influenced the Moment when the Moment called the Doctors "clever boys" which was Clara's calling card).

Regardless, it shouldn't matter. Clara was like Doctor Who fans. One may start watching with Smith or Tennant and be totally aware of regeneration and the precious doctors. They may have even seen some stories. But when "their" doctor regenerates, it is jarring. Especially the first time. I know a lot of Who fans who caught on during the Smith years who were very leery of the change.

But forget the face. The man who she got to know. The friendly smart guy has changed emotionally and seems to have forgotten her. He calls her "not me" and calls Strax "Clara". That is jarring and would seem to be enough of an insult that you are looking for.

Think of it this way. Did you ever have a family member or friend who suffered a large stroke and their personality and/or memory is affected. They lost some motor skills or their face falls? At some point, you will say "I want my (whatever) back." You realize they are the same person and you don't abandon them (neither did Clara) but you want them back to the way they were.

Long winded but what I'm saying is that Clara's reaction to her first real regeneration, whether she remembers meeting the previous doctors or not, is normal and understandable at many levels. Saying "but she knows the doctor regenerates" is overthinking it. I'd understand if it were her second regeneration ("here we go again") but it is not.


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## stargazer21 (May 22, 2002)

Guys....

The old guy in the alley with the Doctor? He's played by a gentleman named Brian Miller. He's the husband of the late Elisabeth Sladen. 

:up:


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> Oh. And to add. Each generation of the Doctor does die. It feels like they are dying to them. They don't want to go (as Tennant said twice). So, any speech at the end is because THAT Doctor is dying. Even though they know they will live on. Or they assume as such. They could actually die during a regeneration.


Right, but until the very end, 11 didn't know he even had a chance to regenerate, so it didn't make any sense to me that he would call Clara in the future and ask her to stay with his new self.

However, this cleared everything up:



TonyD79 said:


> It happened after he got the energy from the Time Lords, the same energy he used to blast the Daleks from the sky. He got young again and said it was only the beginning of the regen. A reset. He called the regen a "Whopper " both on the phone and to Clara in person.


I guess the Doctor's brain wasn't the only one scrambled after his regeneration. For some reason I placed the phone scene at right before he sent Clara away rather than at the very end. I interpreted it as him calling Clara out of guilt for what he was about to do, thinking he would never see her again. I had forgotten how much time there was between his absorption of the new regeneration energy and Clara coming into the TARDIS and seeing him before he changed, so I didn't even think about that possibility.

Now that conversation makes a whole lot more sense!


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

pgogborn said:


> I am sure you meant to post before he dies a glorious death at the hands of his greatest enemy


Horrible death / glorious death
Potato / Patato


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## BitbyBlit (Aug 25, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> But forget the face. The man who she got to know. The friendly smart guy has changed emotionally and seems to have forgotten her. He calls her "not me" and calls Strax "Clara". That is jarring and would seem to be enough of an insult that you are looking for.


Especially since unlike the other companions, Clara didn't bump into the Doctor; he sought her out. She was his "Impossible Girl", and now she has no idea who she is to him. I give her more credit than Vastra, and think that when she said she wanted the Doctor back, she was more concerned about his personality than his appearance. Old 11 didn't seem to bother her that much, so it wasn't just 12's older look that was causing her discomfort.

When she first met the Doctor, he might have looked young, but he seemed to know everything about everything. After he changed, he looked older, but was not any wiser. He couldn't even fly the TARDIS.

There were apparently some consequences to the new regeneration cycle that I'm assuming will be explored in future episodes. Even at the end, while he was better, he was still not his full self. That's why 11 asked Clara to stay with 12. He knew he would need her.



Shakhari said:


> The 12th Doctor is over 2,000 years old now? 11 was only 907 or so when he started. I know he was on Trenzalore for a few centuries and they kind of glossed over him being gone for long stretches of time here and there during the Amy Pond years, but I didn't think it had been that long.


11 had a really long life. He started out with Amy at around 900, but then was around 1200 by the time River tried to kill him. Then he was in hiding for a time. After that, Amy and Rory traveled with him on occasion, and who knows how much he aged during that time. And then on Trenzalore, we know he aged another 300 years. Also, at the beginning of both _The Time of the Doctor_ and _The Day of the Doctor_, Clara was home. So he could have aged more during those times between stories as well.

Plus, as LoadStar mentioned, he might not have been counting the War Doctor's years until now. But even without those years, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think he is over 2000 at this point.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and then there was the time between Amy and Clara Oswin Oswald, where he was moping around for a while. Plus, after he lost Clara Oswin Oswald, and before Clara Oswald contacted him, there was more passage of time.


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## Agatha Mystery (Feb 12, 2002)

LoadStar said:


> And in Torchwood: Children of Earth as Frobisher.
> 
> It was just a humorous line to "hang a lantern" on the fact that he has appeared twice before within the Doctor Who extended universe. I think it is unlikely that they intend to do anything more with it.
> 
> (IIRC, they did a similar sort of line of dialogue when Freema Agyeman became Martha Jones, after having previously appeared in the Doctor Who episode "Army of Ghosts" as a generic Torchwood employee.)


Freema Agyeman was also in a Doctor Who prior to becoming a companion.


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## Agatha Mystery (Feb 12, 2002)

stargazer21 said:


> Guys....
> 
> The old guy in the alley with the Doctor? He's played by a gentleman named Brian Miller. He's the husband of the late Elisabeth Sladen.
> 
> :up:


awww. That's sad. I miss her.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Agatha Mystery said:


> awww. That's sad. I miss her.


I never watched classic Dr. Who, but when she appeared in the episode with David Tennant, I immediately knew she was a former companion, and the scene where he says hello to her still brings a tear to my eye.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

I loved the Sarah Jane Adventures. She worked up until she died and you can't tell.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm not big into Dr. Who--someone said his appearance changes and also his personality. So how is he not just a different person with the last guy's memories implanted?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

stellie93 said:


> I'm not big into Dr. Who--someone said his appearance changes and also his personality. So how is he not just a different person with the last guy's memories implanted?


Because he's not (or maybe there's just no difference). I think you'd have to watch the show to understand.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I watch the show, but I don't keep track of all the stuff that happened in the past. If your husband or wife changed physically, you would still love them (I hope), but if their whole personality changed, I'm not so sure.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I'm not big into Dr. Who--someone said his appearance changes and also his personality. So how is he not just a different person with the last guy's memories implanted?


To some degree he is and he isn't.

For insight into that, watch the Ultimate Doctor special. They talk about the core things that make the Doctor the Doctor no matter who he is.

My stroke analogy earlier was chosen for a reason. Often those are people whose personalities change but they are still the same person. A lot of open heart patients also change (usually they mellow) but they are the same.

I have been reading some old novelizations for lost episodes of early Doctors (Hartnell and Troughton, of course) and with reading them and reading other Who novels over the years, particularly ones that use dialog from the actual shows, one thing has struck me: Often it is easy to mentally substitute one Doctor for another based on just the written word. What that means to me is that the Doctor is pretty much the Doctor through his words and actions. The big difference is the mannerisms, the manner of speaking, the physical attributes, the energy level, the serious/silly blend. I could actually "hear" Smith doing Troughton's words. They would come out differently but they would still be there.

Besides, don't throw away memories. Memories are what make a person. If you cloned someone and did not insert the memories, the clone would be quite different than the clone who got all the memories. I think they examined that in the Rebel Flesh with the ganger Doctor.

But you are right about the personality changing. That makes you doubt. What Clara saw was that he was the same man underneath. Not just from the telephone conversation. They actually realized it when she said he would have her back and trusted he was there. The phone call just sealed the deal and made her feel not just trusting but warmly toward #12.


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## pgogborn (Nov 11, 2002)

She gets to travel through time and space with a mad man in a blue box.

And Steven Moffat wants us to believe she considers giving that up because of some grey hairs and extra madness after a regeneration.

Hmm. I am reminded of long running allegations that Moffat is a misogynist >
http://www.google.com/search?q=stev...&ie=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl#q=steven+moffat+misogyny


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

pgogborn said:


> She gets to travel through time and space with a mad man in a blue box. And Steven Moffat wants us to believe she considers giving that up because of some grey hairs and extra madness after a regeneration. Hmm. I am reminded of long running allegations that Moffat is a misogynist > http://www.google.com/search?q=stevan+moffat+misoagigis&oq=stevan+moffat+misoagigis&aqs=chrome..69i57.32525j1j4&client=tablet-android-google&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espvd=1&ie=UTF-8&gws_rd=ssl#q=steven+moffat+misogyny


I think the misogynist theory is crap at least in his writing. He doesn't write flawed weak women much. In fact, in his Coupling series, the only same character was a woman. And Clara has been downright heroic.

However, many companions have given up traveling with the Doctor of their own choice. You may run around time and space but you also almost die...a lot.

But it does make me think. Traditionally, companions were ON the tardis. They were there for the duration. With Amy/Rory and now Clara, the dynamic has shifted in that the Doctor drops them off at home and comes back to get them later like they are going on holiday.


----------



## Azlen (Nov 25, 2002)




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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

I think that applies to most people on this forum as well, not just Doctor Who fans.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I watch the show, but I don't keep track of all the stuff that happened in the past.





TonyD79 said:


> Besides, don't throw away memories.


I can't imagine watching current Who without trying to remember what's happened in the past. I know most episodes are more or less self-contained, but so much of the dialogue, so many of the motivations, are results of or call-backs to previous material.

(I mean no disrespect to stellie93. We all watch our shows for our own enjoyment and in our own way. Just offering my own take on the subject.)


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## gweempose (Mar 23, 2003)

Dawghows said:


> I can't imagine watching current Who without trying to remember what's happened in the past. I know most episodes are more or less self-contained, but so much of the dialogue, so many of the motivations, are results of or call-backs to previous material.


I wish I remembered the past episodes better than I do. I'm sure I would appreciate some of the multi-season story arcs more if I did. I've seen every episode, but only once, and some of them were a long time ago. I have so many TV shows that I follow, that it is very rare that I go back and watch something a second time. I simply don't have the time. I may start re-watching the show (starting with Eccleston) with my kids soon, and I'm really looking forward to it.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

So when Clara hit the Doctor in the crotch with the sonic screwdriver, that made me wonder... Time Lords have 2 hearts; do they have 4 balls?


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## danterner (Mar 4, 2005)

busyba said:


> So when Clara hit the Doctor in the crotch with the sonic screwdriver, that made me wonder... Time Lords have 2 hearts; do they have 4 balls?


According to the classic episode "Genitals of the Daleks," yes.

I've watched that episode more than once.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

gweempose said:


> I wish I remembered the past episodes better than I do. I'm sure I would appreciate some of the multi-season story arcs more if I did. I've seen every episode, but only once, and some of them were a long time ago.


This is me. I watch a lot of shows and to me, Dr. Who doesn't rise to the level of rewatching. I rewatch GoT--Lost--shows like that. But thanks to you guys I get a lot more detail from it than I would if I never came here. Thanks.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> This is me. I watch a lot of shows and to me, Dr. Who doesn't rise to the level of rewatching. I rewatch GoT--Lost--shows like that. But thanks to you guys I get a lot more detail from it than I would if I never came here. Thanks.


For Doctor Who, wikipedia is a great resource for details.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> But it does make me think. Traditionally, companions were ON the tardis. They were there for the duration. With Amy/Rory and now Clara, the dynamic has shifted in that the Doctor drops them off at home and comes back to get them later like they are going on holiday.


I hadn't thought about that but you're correct. Once a companion joined the Doctor, they were with him for the duration of their stay.


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## Dawghows (May 17, 2001)

Dawghows said:


> I can't imagine watching current Who without trying to remember what's happened in the past





gweempose said:


> I wish I remembered the past episodes better than I do.


Me too. That's why I said "trying to remember" in my comments.


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## stargazer21 (May 22, 2002)

Clara didn't even hang out with Eleven all the time. She was teaching, or babysitting or make Christmas dinner with her Gran. So she has a life outside of the TARDIS anyway...knowing that there's a chance he won't come back for her. Can't say that I would make the same decision as her. 

As for folks that say Moffat is a misogynist, I have only two words. River Song.



pgogborn said:


> She gets to travel through time and space with a mad man in a blue box.
> 
> And Steven Moffat wants us to believe she considers giving that up because of some grey hairs and extra madness after a regeneration.
> 
> ...


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Agatha Mystery said:


> The scene at the end reminded me of another set that they have used. It reminded me of one of the rooms from "The girl who waited" episode.


I've been watching the BBC America "5 days of" and New Year's Eve marathons, and came to post the same thing.

I wonder if this is the same location, redressed for the new episode.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Possibly a more subtle version of the BBC stairwells, which were used in many, many episodes of the original series despite the fact that they were pretty distinctive, no doubt because it was a lot cheaper than finding different unique locations.

It wouldn't surprise me if they have "favorite" locations near the studio that can be easily re-dressed for different settings.


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Oh, sure, most shows re-use locations -- but I usually don't spot them.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

murgatroyd said:


> Oh, sure, most shows re-use locations -- but I usually don't spot them.


Do you watch Supernatural? They have a motel room set that they re-use and re-dress to amusing effect (it's become almost a running commentary on the homogenization of American society!)...


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## murgatroyd (Jan 6, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Do you watch Supernatural? They have a motel room set that they re-use and re-dress to amusing effect (it's become almost a running commentary on the homogenization of American society!)...


No, I don't.

I know some fans like to location-spot and posts stuff about which spots have been re-used in what shows, and I always like seeing articles and websites like that -- but I'm not very good at spotting them on my own.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

murgatroyd said:


> No, I don't. I know some fans like to location-spot and posts stuff about which spots have been re-used in what shows, and I always like seeing articles and websites like that -- but I'm not very good at spotting them on my own.


On Big Bang Theory, they use one staircase for every floor. 

(This is a test to see if BBT threads are contagious.)


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Have you been drinking?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Have you been drinking?


While committing a felony?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Have you been drinking?


Still egg nog season.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Agatha Mystery said:


> I assume the face he had seen before was a throwback to the anniversary episode where we saw his eyes.
> 
> It's going to take a bit too get used to the accent. I missed a few words.
> 
> The scene at the end reminded me of another set that they have used. It reminded me of one of the rooms from "The girl who waited" episode.





murgatroyd said:


> I've been watching the BBC America "5 days of" and New Year's Eve marathons, and came to post the same thing.
> 
> I wonder if this is the same location, redressed for the new episode.





Rob Helmerichs said:


> Possibly a more subtle version of the BBC stairwells, which were used in many, many episodes of the original series despite the fact that they were pretty distinctive, no doubt because it was a lot cheaper than finding different unique locations.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if they have "favorite" locations near the studio that can be easily re-dressed for different settings.


They confirmed that it's the same shooting location in a tweet or interview, I'm pretty sure it was Mark Gatiss that said it to the effect "there are only so many locations we can use in Wales don't read too much into it"


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