# HDMI connection not permitted?



## trlyka (May 21, 2003)

Before going through the Receiver, we had no issues with the HDMI connection. Now we hooked up a new Pioneer receiver model VSX-1017TXV-K. 

The HDMI conections are as follows - Tivo S3>Pioneer Recevier>To HDTV. Our TV is a 3 yr old 50" Samsung DLP HL-P5085W.

The basic analog cable channels come in just fine. As soon as we get to a digital channel, we get a message on the screen from Tivo. It says "HDMI Connection Not Permitted. Press Select For More Information." "This TV is not Compatible with HDCP Digital Rights Management Standards. Unplug the HDMI cable between the DVR and the TV...." It goes on to say to use a component cable instead 

With the Tivo HDMI connected directly from the Tivo to the TV, there are no issues with viewing digital or HD channels.

Any ideas as to why we are getting this message?

Thanks


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

I'm guessing there is some issue with the way the reciever is passing the signal between HDMI ports. HDCP is a real bastard and exceptionally consumer-hostile. If you don't hold your tongue just the right way HDCP will bite you.

To verify this, what happens if you plug the HDMI from the TiVo directly to the TV?


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

Your receiver doesn't do the magic secret HDCP handshake.
Welcome to the new century, where we can't be trusted with precious entertainment content.


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## trlyka (May 21, 2003)

bizzy said:


> Your receiver doesn't do the magic secret HDCP handshake.
> Welcome to the new century, where we can't be trusted with precious entertainment content.


So what are you saying? It won't work at all, ever? Do you know if there is a comparable receiver that will work? Or perhaps something we need to do to this receiver to make it work?

We got a great deal on this receiver, I would hate to have to take it back


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## trlyka (May 21, 2003)

pkscout said:


> I'm guessing there is some issue with the way the reciever is passing the signal between HDMI ports. HDCP is a real bastard and exceptionally consumer-hostile. If you don't hold your tongue just the right way HDCP will bite you.
> 
> To verify this, what happens if you plug the HDMI from the TiVo directly to the TV?


......With the Tivo HDMI connected directly from the Tivo to the TV, there are no issues with viewing digital or HD channels.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Since that's a newer model A/V receiver, it shouldn't have any HDMI handshake problems.

Perhaps it's the powering up sequence?

Turn on the S3 first, then the Pioneer, then the TV.
Or once everything is powered up, change inputs on the Pioneer away from that HDMI input, then back again.

I know my S3 has HDMI handshake problems if the TV (Samsung) is already on and turned to the HDMI input, I sometimes have to either change the input on the TV, or turn the TV on then off again to get the handshake to work.

All else fails, try the section on AVS Forums for receivers and see if anyone else has experienced that problem, and if they found a solution.


phox


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

I looked up the specs for the VSX-1017TXV-K on Pioneer's site, and a couple of things struck me. First, they do not mention HDCP anywhere. Second, this page claims that the receiver will convert digital video to component. The licensing terms for HDCP prohibit this.

I really do suspect that this receiver doesn't speak HDCP at all.


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## trlyka (May 21, 2003)

phox_mulder said:


> Since that's a newer model A/V receiver, it shouldn't have any HDMI handshake problems.
> 
> Perhaps it's the powering up sequence?
> 
> ...


We tried the powering up and changing inputs as you suggested. No change


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## johnsom (May 30, 2001)

I would check with both the receiver and TV vendors for firmware updates. HDCP has been a problem for almost every vendor out there.

Also note, there have been a number of issues reported with Samsung equipment and HDCP problems. (do a google search on "3416 Samsung")


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## trlyka (May 21, 2003)

johnsom said:


> I would check with both the receiver and TV vendors for firmware updates. HDCP has been a problem for almost every vendor out there.
> 
> Also note, there have been a number of issues reported with Samsung equipment and HDCP problems. (do a google search on "3416 Samsung")


The receiver is fairly new. I didn't find anything on a firmware update for it. How would you do a firmware update on a TV?


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

trlyka said:


> The receiver is fairly new. I didn't find anything on a firmware update for it. How would you do a firmware update on a TV?


Generally USB. My reciever is old school, it needs a PC with a serial port to flash its firmware.

I really doubt its a firmware issue. If your receiver does indeed convert an HDMI input to component video outputs as the Pioneer data sheet says, there is simply no way that the receiver does HDCP.


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## demon (Nov 15, 2006)

Except that to have the HDMI logo certification (if it has the port, I'm pretty sure it has to have the logo cert as well), they'd *have* to have HDCP (it's part of the HDMI spec). I'm not sure, of course (my Onkyo handles it fine), but I'm pretty sure that that's the case...


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## trlyka (May 21, 2003)

demon said:


> Except that to have the HDMI logo certification (if it has the port, I'm pretty sure it has to have the logo cert as well), they'd *have* to have HDCP (it's part of the HDMI spec). I'm not sure, of course (my Onkyo handles it fine), but I'm pretty sure that that's the case...


So it looks like this Pioneer is not going to handle the HDCP for whatever reason


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## bizzy (Jan 20, 2004)

demon said:


> Except that to have the HDMI logo certification (if it has the port, I'm pretty sure it has to have the logo cert as well), they'd *have* to have HDCP (it's part of the HDMI spec). I'm not sure, of course (my Onkyo handles it fine), but I'm pretty sure that that's the case...


Good point, and one that I have been wondering about myself. There are plenty of HDMI devices that do similar things - like the BlackMagic Intensity IO cards, and AJA's IoHD.

I think I'm going to correct myself and suggest that these devices probably DO speak HDCP; and specifically advertise that they are not to receive protected content. That makes the most sense.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

demon said:


> Except that to have the HDMI logo certification (if it has the port, I'm pretty sure it has to have the logo cert as well), they'd *have* to have HDCP (it's part of the HDMI spec). I'm not sure, of course (my Onkyo handles it fine), but I'm pretty sure that that's the case...


hey demon - with your Onkyo, does it first give you the error but then continue on fine? Mine does that, just flashes the hdmi not permitted msg, but then the error goes away and all is well.


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## HTH (Aug 28, 2000)

I too am getting the HDMI error. Except when it says, "Press Select for more information," Select does exactly nothing. This from playing either HD or digital content from Now Playing.

I've been getting this error again ever since the last two software updates. The previous version to them had dispelled the problem.

Sometimes I can turn off the TV and back on and have the problem resolved for the duration of the program, except last weekend's episode of _Firefly_ on HDNET where it happened 5 or 6 times. After working around the glitch, the video in the section that triggered the sound jumps forward and the video goes into rapid mode to catch up to it.

I've diagnosed that my HDMI switch is not the problem. I get similar behavior when the TiVo is directly connected to my Westinghouse 47" monitor via HDMI. The HDMI switch only has problems on port 1 with the video going black and coming back, and that's now my upconverting DVD player.


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## wblynch (Aug 13, 2003)

Did you check BOTH HDMI cables?

There might be a problem with the AVR-to-TV cable. Worth checking at least...


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## TooManyTimeZones (Dec 23, 2005)

I have an HD-TIVO connected to a Samsung DLP TV with HDMI input. I also use the composite video output of the HD-TIVO to send the signal to other TVs in my house. If the Samsung TV is on, my other TVs show the HD-TIVO composite signal just fine. However, if the Samsung TV is off, the HD-TIVO displays the same error message, even though I am only physically watching the composite output. I guess the TIVO's HDCP handshake with the Samsung TV doesn't recognize that the TV is actually OFF.

I have the same setup on a different Samsung DLP TV and HD-TIVO in another room except that there is an OPPO 3-1 HDMI switch between the HD-TIVO and the TV. Once again, I had the same problem: when the Samsung TV was off, the the composite output would show the error message. However, I found that if I switched the OPPO HDMI switch to an unused input, the composite output works just fine. It seems like the OPPO's unused HDMI ports handle the handshaking properly whereas the Samsung's do not.

HDMI switches have gotten cheaper so I'll probably try this same "fix" on the other TV.


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## EightPieceBox (May 9, 2008)

I hate HDCP! It does nothing to prevent piracy and it just causes headaches. I have a Samsung front projector, a Westinghouse 24" LCD monitor and I just got a TivoHD. The projector has DVI with HDCP. I know it works because that's how I had my cable box hooked up previously. I've tried 2 cables and got the same result with both. The projector gets the HDCP warning, the LCD monitor just gets no signal. I know the connection is good because when I reboot the Tivo the first startup screen comes up. It's when you get to the "just a few minutes more" the signal drops out. I tried every resolution and got squat.

I'm resigned to the fact that I just got unlucky and have incompatible devices. I know the HDMI port in this LCD monitor is buggy, but it has HDCP and it ticks me off that I have to use component on the projector. It better work. I just hooked it up and haven't tried it yet. I have a 27" Olevia tv in the bedroom I'm going to try later. Like my projector, it only has DVI, but there isn't supposed to be any difference with HDCP on DVI or HDMI.


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## PaulS (Sep 16, 2002)

There have been similar reports from lots of other folks since TiVo rolled out 9.3. 
Check out THIS THREAD for more details,


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## Lupin (Apr 3, 2007)

Im not even sure what the point of HDCP is. I mean, component can and does pump out 1080p which is the same as HDMI and it cannot be encrypted so that means that as long as those connectors exist on a unit there will be piracy. I guess they are trying to get us ready for a world out of analog and have digital pirate proof, but, jokes on them, nothing is pirate proof. As soon as devices stop coming with component they will just focus on cracking HDCP and they will since Im sure there is some simple flaw in the system or some device will come along that does a lot of things but leaves itself open for data sniffing aka man in the middle attacks.


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## EightPieceBox (May 9, 2008)

PaulS said:


> There have been similar reports from lots of other folks since TiVo rolled out 9.3.
> Check out THIS THREAD for more details,


Interesting. My 27" Olevia did end up working with an HDMI to DVI cable, so I'm going with that and component to the projector. Guess I'll try swapping them the next time Tivo does a software update.


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