# TiVo Bolt Plus HDD Clone



## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Reviewed a number of threads, but I cannot find exactly what I'm looking for so I thought I'd ask the experts.

In summary, I'd like to clone my Bolt Plus' hard drive.

I bought a brand new TiVo Bolt+ via the recent Series3 LT upgrade offer. I really like it so far, it's working fine, talks to my Premiere XL 4 and TiVo Mini, however I'm really apprehensive about the new 2.5" HDD constantly buffering 6 tuners. Seems ripe for early failure...at least earlier than a solid, old school 3.5" HDD. So as a preventative measure I'd like to clone its 3TB drive and put it on the shelf. 

I've upgraded every model of TiVo we've owned since the Series1 and am more than comfortable with the process. However it's been a while and although I've found plenty of upgrade instructions and videos for upgrading the TiVo Bolt, I can't find any for the Bolt Plus. Perhaps it's the same process, but I can't find confirmation, and as mentioned I don't want to upgrade, just clone.

I've used MFS Tools previously (and I see mention of MSFR), but since I'm not expanding an existing drive I'm not sure if I still need to use the tools or if dd_rescue is the way to go or ???

I understand that the recommend HDD is a Toshiba MQ03ABB300. Is that still the "go to" drive?

So I'd welcome anyone's recommendations or if I missed it a strong wag of the finger and a link to what I'm looking for.  

TIA!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

MFSTools 3.2 would be what you need. It would allow you to backup and restore.
Backing up is better than just storing away the hard drive. Hard drives age even when not operating/hooked up, just not so fast as when it is operating. 

MFSR is just an expanding tool for Roamio and above.

You can also use DVRBars to backup/restore but not expand.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

ThAbtO said:


> MFSTools 3.2 would be what you need. It would allow you to backup and restore.
> Backing up is better than just storing away the hard drive. Hard drives age even when not operating/hooked up, just not so fast as when it is operating.
> 
> MFSR is just an expanding tool for Roamio and above.
> ...


You know, it's shocking how long it takes to get an answer around here. 

Understood about backing up vs storing a HDD. I used to take them off the shelf, run them for a bit (install updates, etc.) and then put them away again. Worked fine, but a backup is always a good idea.

I found this thread about DVR Backup and Restore. Haven't read all the way through, but since I'd just like a clone of the existing drive it seems like that should work.

Thanks a bunch for the speedy reply ThAbtO!

Any additional advice is always appreciated.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

richsadams said:


> You know, it's shocking how long it takes to get an answer around here.
> 
> Understood about backing up vs storing a HDD. I used to take them off the shelf, run them for a bit (install updates, etc.) and then put them away again. Worked fine, but a backup is always a good idea.
> 
> ...


At this point, MFSTools 3.2 should not be used on Bolts except for adding an external drive. Hopefully that will be fixed at some point.

I would recommend DvrBARS for backup and restore and a disk duplicator to clone the drive.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

richsadams said:


> I bought a brand new TiVo Bolt+ via the recent Series3 LT upgrade offer. I really like it so far, it's working fine, talks to my Premiere XL 4 and TiVo Mini, however I'm really apprehensive about the new 2.5" HDD constantly buffering 6 tuners. Seems ripe for early failure...at least earlier than a solid, old school 3.5" HDD. So as a preventative measure I'd like to clone its 3TB drive and put it on the shelf.
> 
> I've upgraded every model of TiVo we've owned since the Series1 and am more than comfortable with the process. However it's been a while and although I've found plenty of upgrade instructions and videos for upgrading the TiVo Bolt, I can't find any for the Bolt Plus. Perhaps it's the same process, but I can't find confirmation, and as mentioned I don't want to upgrade, just clone.


Rich,

What's the purpose of the clone? Are you trying to save the shows that are recorded on the Bolt (which would become out of date unless you did this regularly)?

I'm asking since otherwise I can't see a purpose for having a clone/backup as the Roamio and Bolt both have their software in flash and if you had a drive failure, you would just replace the drive with a new one and the Roamio/Bolt would automatically format it for use.

Scott


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

DvrBARS is limited to 2TB drives, so it won't work for the OP's 3TB drive. Also, it only works on Series 1 through Premiere models.

Note: The Full Backup mode in DvrBARS will work on anything including non-TiVo drives because it just makes a 'dumb' byte-for-byte copy of the source drive to a VHD file, but the 2TB limit still applies. That's inherent in the Microsoft VHD specification.

I would use a drive duplicator dock or dd.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> Rich,
> 
> What's the purpose of the clone? Are you trying to save the shows that are recorded on the Bolt (which would become out of date unless you did this regularly)?
> 
> ...


Hey Scott! So this is what happens when you (meaning I) become complacent and don't keep up with all things TiVo? *Face palm*

No desire to keep the current recordings (the Premier's One Pass is a dupe of the Bolt's), just thought it would be good to have a backup drive sitting on the shelf if/when the original fails so I could slip it in with minimal downtime.

So what you're saying is that if the Bolt's current drive fails I can simply install a new (3TB) drive and it'll be good to go again? Does that include cable card pairing, etc.?

Cheers for that!


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## ggieseke (May 30, 2008)

Installing a new drive means starting over from scratch. It will build the drive (up to 3TB) in about 4 minutes, but nothing (including CableCARD pairing) carries over from the old drive.


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

You can periodically 'backup' your One Passes and Thumbs Ratings with KMTTG as well...

-KP


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

Many thanks ggieseke, kpeters59, jmbach and ThAbtO!


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

Did you know the recorded shows, passes can be downloaded using a program called KMTTG. It could then be saved on your computer's hard drive or on a network drive.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

richsadams said:


> No desire to keep the current recordings (the Premier's One Pass is a dupe of the Bolt's), just thought it would be good to have a backup drive sitting on the shelf if/when the original fails so I could slip it in with minimal downtime.
> 
> So what you're saying is that if the Bolt's current drive fails I can simply install a new (3TB) drive and it'll be good to go again? Does that include cable card pairing, etc.?


As Greg said, nothing like CableCARD pairing will carry over to a new (clean) drive so if you really are looking for minimal downtime then you may still want to give it a try.

Scott


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

kpeters59 said:


> You can periodically 'backup' your One Passes and Thumbs Ratings with KMTTG as well...
> 
> -KP





ThAbtO said:


> Did you know the recorded shows, passes can be downloaded using a program called KMTTG. It could then be saved on your computer's hard drive or on a network drive.


Thanks for that. Haven't used KMTTG (or thumbs) in years, but good to know. :thumbsup:


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

HerronScott said:


> As Greg said, nothing like CableCARD pairing will carry over to a new (clean) drive so if you really are looking for minimal downtime then you may still want to give it a try.
> 
> Scott


Knew it was too good to be true.  However it's still a lot easier than it used to be so I may go ahead and try doing a back up and cloning it for a little peace of mind.

Thanks all...you've truly been a terrific help. I owe you!


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

ggieseke said:


> Installing a new drive means starting over from scratch. It will build the drive (up to 3TB) in about 4 minutes, but nothing (including CableCARD pairing) carries over from the old drive.


While it doesn't carry over from the old drive, the 1 passes get repopulated once you connect to the TiVo servers. The recorded shows and cable card pairing are gone though as you mentioned.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

richsadams said:


> Knew it was too good to be true.  However it's still a lot easier than it used to be so I may go ahead and try doing a back up and cloning it for a little peace of mind.
> 
> Thanks all...you've truly been a terrific help. I owe you!


If the Toshiba is the same or larger size, you should be able to stick it in this disk caddy and clone the original (using the offline clone functino) onto the Toshiba and have a backup swapin-ready to go.

https://www.amazon.com/Inateck-Dual-Bay-Function-Tool-Free-FD2002/dp/B00N1KXE9K

If you want to use a larger drive, you'll need to do the standard upgrade procedure.

Another thing to note is if you start swapping drives (that are not bit-for-bit clones) it can render shows on the previous drive inaccessible.

For example recently TiVo had an update that broke a configuration people were using with esata drive enclosures. The symptom was the 4 blinking lights, just like a drive failure, but the issue wasn't with the drives, but the esata interface connection. While diagnosing, some people put in the original 500GB drive in the bolt, but then when the figured out the issue was really the esata connection and used a long sata cable instead, the external drive started working again, but the recorded shows were not accessible. Once the problem was discovered, folks skipped the step of trying the original 500GB drive and just changed the cable to sata. Their shows were fully accessible with that sequence.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

sfhub said:


> While it doesn't carry over from the old drive, the 1 passes get repopulated once you connect to the TiVo servers. The recorded shows and cable card pairing are gone though as you mentioned.





sfhub said:


> If the Toshiba is the same or larger size, you should be able to stick it in this disk caddy and clone the original (using the offline clone functino) onto the Toshiba and have a backup swapin-ready to go.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Inateck-Dual-Bay-Function-Tool-Free-FD2002/dp/B00N1KXE9K
> 
> ...


Great info and advice! :thumbsup: I already have this Unitek "cloning drive dock" with the same functions so that should work fine.

Since our Premiere is recording the same shows as a backup for the most part, even if I lost everything on the Bolt+ it should work out okay.

I'll post back as soon as I have time to give it a try.

FWIW, is the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 still the drive of choice?

Thanks again!


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

richsadams said:


> FWIW, is the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 still the drive of choice?


It is still the one most people are using.

I am not sure if it is still the case that other drives won't work well, but there were quite a few failures with the earlier seagate SMR drives and that scared people off, so very few people try any other drives. It is unclear if SMR is the issue or that family/batch of seagate SMR drives was not robust. The OEM WD 3TB drive is not generally available to the public so the prices for the WD OEM drive tend to be higher than the Toshiba. If you don't mind the inconvenience, you can run a longer SATA cable (after dremeling a small hole) to an external SATA enclosure (bypassing the esata circuitry on the enclosure) and use more popular 3.5" WD Red drives.


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

sfhub said:


> It is still the one most people are using.
> 
> I am not sure if it is still the case that other drives won't work well, but there were quite a few failures with the earlier seagate SMR drives and that scared people off, so very few people try any other drives. It is unclear if SMR is the issue or that family/batch of seagate SMR drives was not robust. The OEM WD 3TB drive is not generally available to the public so the prices for the WD OEM drive tend to be higher than the Toshiba. If you don't mind the inconvenience, you can run a longer SATA cable (after dremeling a small hole) to an external SATA enclosure (bypassing the esata circuitry on the enclosure) and use more popular 3.5" WD Red drives.


Excellent! Noted some folks were hacking a 3.5" drive via an external SATA connection, but I think I'll give the clone a try first...then go to "Plan C" if needed.

Cheers for that!


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## permanentpress (Oct 31, 2003)

This header really fits my question, though doesn’t answer it, so let me add on...
My bolt plus is flashing 4 lights and likely dead. It replaced a bolt that died last year, but it’s on lifetime so I will either swap with tivo or replace the drive. Here are ideas spinning in my head for current or future recovery use.
? Can I clone the drive of a tivo with recordings as an image file/ or to a new 3TB matching drive / and still watch my recording on the the new tivo?
? Or alternately could I clone to a new drive and only use in the current tivo ?
? My drive won’t boot the tivo but if I got a sector copy to a good drive, might it boot? Or switch to a secondary partition like the old ones used to and boot, and still let me see/ transfer some of my recording to my far older BUT STILL WORKING Premiere or Series 3 (yeah they outlived two bolts... okay I think they have replacement drives in them but even those are still years older)
I just have so many collected recordings and no record of what they are and the archivist (hoarder?) in me needs to know. Also the tinkerer.*
Yes I may just work out a replacement deal with tivo but it should not be an annual event...

* is there perhaps a file on the bolt that would list recordings that might be recoverable? At least the old days the tivo would die slowly and I could photograph the now playing list before kissing it goodbye....


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

If the drive failed, its toast and cannot be salvaged to another drive.


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## permanentpress (Oct 31, 2003)

Yes, but there’s failed and there's failed. I’ve used Spinrite on past tivo drives to get them to boot or clone (it moves data off failing sectors that the device gives up on so it can move past some fatal errors. ) If that’s possible, then would the drive info be tied to the tivo info in some new way or in the blessed old way, as it were....


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

permanentpress said:


> This header really fits my question, though doesn't answer it, so let me add on...
> My bolt plus is flashing 4 lights and likely dead. It replaced a bolt that died last year, but it's on lifetime so I will either swap with tivo or replace the drive. Here are ideas spinning in my head for current or future recovery use.
> ? Can I clone the drive of a tivo with recordings as an image file/ or to a new 3TB matching drive / and still watch my recording on the the new tivo?
> ? Or alternately could I clone to a new drive and only use in the current tivo ?
> ...


There are two drives that can go bad now. The internal hard drive and the internal flash drive. If it is the flash drive, not much you can do but swap the unit. If it is the hard drive, then you can do as you talked about, use spinrite to see if enough of the drive can be salvaged to be copied over to a good drive. You can then hopefully boot off the good drive on the unit and then transfer the recordings to your other TiVo unit(s). You can either do it via TiVo to TiVo or a program like kmttg.

If the will TiVo boot up to the kickstart portal after your salvage attempt but not fully boot, try a KS 58 to see if it can fully repair itself to a full boot


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## uochris (Jan 6, 2002)

richsadams said:


> Great info and advice! :thumbsup: I already have this Unitek "cloning drive dock" with the same functions so that should work fine.
> 
> Since our Premiere is recording the same shows as a backup for the most part, even if I lost everything on the Bolt+ it should work out okay.
> 
> I'll post back as soon as I have time to give it a try.


Did you ever get the chance to try cloning your Bolt drive using the cloning dock and if so did it work?


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

uochris said:


> Did you ever get the chance to try cloning your Bolt drive using the cloning dock and if so did it work?


Hi Chris! You know I never did. It's still going strong but it's one of those "to do" things I have in the back of my mind. It does some odd things now and then and I think "uh-oh, should have created a backup drive" but a quick reboot has always resolved it.

If I do put this on the front burner I'll be sure and post back.

Per my post on another thread, I see that the recommended 3TB Toshiba MQ03ABB300 is hard to find now, so I asked if there's an alternative.

If you give it a go, please let us know how it went!

Cheers,

Rich


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## bill02888 (Jan 7, 2007)

Hi,

I was surprised the other day when I tried to watch TiVo. TV indicated there was no signal from my Bolt Plus. I opened my A/C cabinet to see all 4 lights on the front of my Bolt Plus flashing simultaneously. I searched and found that this means that the drive (or maybe power supply) is "completely dead". In spite of that I continued the process that has worked before when there were bad sectors on a TiVo hard drive.

I purchased a replacement hard drive from WeeKnees. When it arrived I used WD's disk diagnostics on a Windows PC to test for any bad sectors. It checked out fine.

I saw somewhere that a Bolt Plus will "format" a hard drive the first time it sees it, so I thought it might help to install the new drive into the TiVo and perform a guided set up first, which I did. Once that was done I installed both hard drives into an old PC where I booted from a thumb drive containing Ubuntu Rescue Remix. I used "hdparm -i /dev/sda" to confirm that I knew which drive was sda and which was sdb, then I used "ddrescue -f -n /dev/sda /dev/sdb" to copy from the old drive to the new drive. It ran for a long time. In the end it was only unable to recover from 10 errors (45,056 bytes) which I thought was quite good! I installed the new drive in the TiVo. It did NOT run through setup, but when I checked there were NO recordings on the hard drive! Waaa!

I've got several recordings on the old hard drive that I wanted to save but hadn't yet retrieved using either TiVo Desktop, pyTivo, or KMTTG. Why isn't this process (ddrescue, then installing the new hard drive into TiVo) working on a Bolt Plus?

If this process will NEVER be able to work on a Bolt Plus then ... what method(s) would be best for backing up all the recordings and other information so that when my new hard drive dies in a few years that I won't have lost anything?

Note: I paid for lifetime service on this box.

Thoughts? Tips? Prayers?
Thanks,
Bill


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## richsadams (Jan 4, 2003)

I'll take a chance and cross-post this here...

Has anyone tried the Seagate ST3000LM024? According to one review by "KingBoy" on Amazon it's working in their Bolt.

I used to be a huge fan of Seagate but their QC tanked a few years back. I'm not sure if they've recovered yet or not.

TIA!


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

bill02888 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was surprised the other day when I tried to watch TiVo. TV indicated there was no signal from my Bolt Plus. I opened my A/C cabinet to see all 4 lights on the front of my Bolt Plus flashing simultaneously. I searched and found that this means that the drive (or maybe power supply) is "completely dead". In spite of that I continued the process that has worked before when there were bad sectors on a TiVo hard drive.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately since you put a blank drive in your Bolt to format it, it wiped out the sqlite database located on the onboard flash drive that contains all the information about the recordings on your old drive. Consequently, there is no way to recover that data and your recordings are lost.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

The only thing you gain by copying your drive is that you should be able to retain the cableCARD settings.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

You would have been fine if you would have just copied the drive and placed in your Bolt.


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## OP_Engr (May 31, 2018)

It sounds like keeping a copy of your Bolt Plus hard drive around is useless.
You don't need it for a clean start since Bolt will format a new drive for you.
You can't recover the shows on the original drive because the sqlite database will not match the original drive. (I can deal with two hours getting Comcast to re-pair the cable card.)
Is this also applicable to Bolt (added firmware drive)? I have a dead Bolt drive that I was trying to recover, but the TiVo it came out of was needed so I put another temporary drive in it.
Are there no special commands to rebuild the sqlite database?
Is the only way forward to pull the shows off my TiVo onto a different hard drive and store them for when I need to have TiVo pull them back?
Is the preferred storage method .mp4?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

OP_Engr said:


> Is the only way forward to pull the shows off my TiVo onto a different hard drive and store them for when I need to have TiVo pull them back?


You can get shows off the Tivo if its running, but TE4 removed the feature that allows you to put it back.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

OP_Engr said:


> It sounds like keeping a copy of your Bolt Plus hard drive around is useless.
> You don't need it for a clean start since Bolt will format a new drive for you.
> You can't recover the shows on the original drive because the sqlite database will not match the original drive. (I can deal with two hours getting Comcast to re-pair the cable card.)
> Is this also applicable to Bolt (added firmware drive)? I have a dead Bolt drive that I was trying to recover, but the TiVo it came out of was needed so I put another temporary drive in it.
> ...


Once a Bolt and newer TiVos format a new drive, it erases the sqlite database located on the internal flash drive. Currently there is no way to rebuild the database on the flash. Consequently your shows are lost. You would have to transfer them off the drive while the drive is in the TiVo that recorded them.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

jmbach said:


> Once a Bolt and newer TiVos format a new drive, it erases the sqlite database located on the internal flash drive. Currently there is no way to rebuild the database on the flash. Consequently your shows are lost. You would have to transfer them off the drive while the drive is in the TiVo that recorded them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


A somewhat related question. Can cloned drives be swapped back and forth in the same Bolt?


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## ThAbtO (Apr 6, 2000)

UCLABB said:


> A somewhat related question. Can cloned drives be swapped back and forth in the same Bolt?


No. Its like the internal flash drive have the drive ID and compares it to the one installed. If different, erase drive and update the drive ID.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

UCLABB said:


> A somewhat related question. Can cloned drives be swapped back and forth in the same Bolt?


Yes and no. No is the best answer. 
The problem is that the sqlite database is in flash memory. An immediate clone can be swapped without issues. However, if it is a delayed swap, then the problems arise. When shows are recorded and deleted, the entry in the sqlite database is updated. Because the recordings and database are on two different drives, the sync between the database and the drive is lost when swapping cloned drives have been delayed and the one drive has had recordings added and deleted before the other drive is put in the Bolt. Unpredictable things can occur as this process is repeated.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

jmbach said:


> Yes and no. No is the best answer.
> The problem is that the sqlite database is in flash memory. An immediate clone can be swapped without issues. However, if it is a delayed swap, then the problems arise. When shows are recorded and deleted, the entry in the sqlite database is updated. Because the recordings and database are on two different drives, the sync between the database and the drive is lost when swapping cloned drives have been delayed and the one drive has had recordings added and deleted before the other drive is put in the Bolt. Unpredictable things can occur as this process is repeated.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


Okay then. You recommend that after cloning, but before expanding, that the new drive be tested in the TiVo. I guess when doing that one better be sure that a recording isn't scheduled during that test.


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## jmbach (Jan 1, 2009)

UCLABB said:


> Okay then. You recommend that after cloning, but before expanding, that the new drive be tested in the TiVo. I guess when doing that one better be sure that a recording isn't scheduled during that test.


That is okay. It is just swapping between original and cloned drive back and forth is the issue.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk


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