# Why are the apps so terrible?



## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

I am basing my comments on these same apps that I use on my Roku. 

Apps on the Roamio are absolutely terrible!

Hulu Plus -- 100% garbage. Tivo should just remove it. I get constant video buffering when trying to watch anything. Even old SD shows like The Outer Limits buffers, buffers and buffers. Also when going to a Hulu Plus show from Tivo Central you are taken to Hulu Plus, then it loads the show, then you have to select if you want to play the video.. Seriously? Junk, garbage, needs to just be removed.

MLB.TV -- Junk! The video is fine and I like the GUI. I never get buffering but every time I exit the app after watching a game I get an error on every channel. The error is a banner message dead smack in the center of the screen --> the copyright holder no longer permits viewing of this portion of the program.

Netflix -- This is just about the only app on the Tivo that works well. No buffering and everything works fine. I do get booted out every so often when trying to go back to the episode list on TV shows but it's rare and I can live with that even though this never happens on my Roku.

Vudu -- Works OK, nothing to jump up and down over and nothing to praise. I've only used it once to rent a movie and it worked fine.

YouTube -- Oh my. The GUI is terrible but videos work fine with no buffering or other issues.

I know they won't remove these terrible apps as they are selling notes but dang, they are terrible!


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

Agreed. I just activated a Hulu Plus 30 day trial today to try it out on Roamio and I'm sorry I did. I can't watch anything. Instant cancellation.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

series5orpremier said:


> Agreed. I just activated a Hulu Plus 30 day trial today to try it out on Roamio and I'm sorry I did. I can't watch anything. Instant cancellation.


It's embarrassing for Tivo and it reflects poorly on the Roamio. I understand it's a marketing tactic, look we have all these apps but when they perform as badly as they do on the Tivo it goes from marketing tactic to an embarrassment rather fast.

Hulu Plus is definitely the worst of the bunch though..


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Hmm, who writes the apps? Perhaps talk with them? I'm sure Tivo would love for these providers to spend some time cleaning these apps up.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

jrtroo said:


> Hmm, who writes the apps? Perhaps talk with them? I'm sure Tivo would love for these providers to spend some time cleaning these apps up.


Tivo allows the garbage onto their machines so it's a 2-way street.


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

You think they are going to reject these apps? Again, they did not write them, I suggest going to the author if you want them to dedicate resources to make you happy.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

jrtroo said:


> You think they are going to reject these apps? Again, they did not write them, I suggest going to the author if you want them to dedicate resources to make you happy.


I figured it would not take long for someone to push the blame elsewhere..

Tivo is responsible for the apps on their machine. They can and should test the app before it's allowed. If it's garbage then don't allow it until the developer fixes it..

Tivo should be the one to make sure the apps work BEFORE they even make it onto the unit. Expecting the end user to get the apps fixed is ridiculous when Tivo has much more power and input to do so..

You want to blame the app maker which is fine but to say that Tivo has no fault in allowing busted and junk apps onto their platform is a bit odd to me.. But, okie dokie, to each their own I suppose..


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## jrtroo (Feb 4, 2008)

Do you blame google if spotify crashes on your phone? Or if an app has an awkward input scheme?

You are complaining about a UI and technical aspects tivo does not control.

I'm not going to try to move the stone here, you are welcome to your own opinion.

Clearly tivo's have bugs, I have seen plenty. I've got my own list of issues, but these are not on that list for me.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

jrtroo said:


> Do you blame google if spotify crashes on your phone? Or if an app has an awkward input scheme?


Yawn.

You win, I give up... Mods feel free to close this thread. Thanks


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## 59er (Mar 27, 2008)

raqball said:


> Yawn.
> 
> You win, I give up... Mods feel free to close this thread. Thanks


Good call. I agree with *jrtroo*.

I'd rather have a sucky Hulu+ app than no app -- and generally, the video plays fine for me, but it gets into ****ty buffering video on the ads. And if I have to sit through a few ads, at least I get the satisfaction of the advertiser not getting its money's worth.


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Netflix, Youtube, and Amazon work well for me. Hulu+ clearly needs an update, but it is generally usable.

Compare this to my AppleTV or my Sony DB player, which sometimes crash the entire device or require a device reboot to work at all, and I cannot complain. My Roku stick is better, but it doesn't include a 4-tuner DVR, so bygones...


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

FYI I find it easier to use the YouTube app on my iPad and then just cast the video to my TiVo. The UI on the TiVo is pretty terrible. 

Your issue with MLB.TV is related to HDCP. Not sure why it only happens after the LB.TV app exits, but if you switch inputs on your TV and then switch back it will probably go away. 

I use Netflix, Vudu and Amazon all the time. They all work great for me. I tried Hulu+ once a long time ago, but couldn't stand the forced ads.


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## srauly (Apr 26, 2000)

raqball said:


> Apps on the Roamio are absolutely terrible!
> ...
> Netflix -- This is just about the only app on the Tivo that works well. No buffering and everything works fine. I do get booted out every so often when trying to go back to the episode list on TV shows but it's rare and I can live with that even though this never happens on my Roku.
> 
> ...


You've lumped Netflix and VUDU into your list of "terrible apps" but haven't cited anything terrible about them?

FWIW, I just started using VUDU lately. I like what VUDU has to offer but don't love the VUDU app user experience. It's the same design on most devices, but it feels like a web app (e.g., a bit slow, no audible feedback when moving around) and I really wish it had a list view option for the movies I own. But those are all complaints that I should be directing at VUDU.


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## bob61 (Apr 23, 2002)

raqball said:


> I am basing my comments on these same apps that I use on my Roku.
> 
> Apps on the Roamio are absolutely terrible!
> 
> ...


I haven't experienced this with Hulu, even on my Mini.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I use Amazon, Vudu and Netflix - I think they are all top notch applications. For Youtube, I am in the same boat as Dan. I don't really use that app - I am generally watching something on my iPad and want to share with the family.

The other apps? I frankly don't understand Hulu and wouldn't pay for it. So that leaves, what, MLB.TV? Not a big sports fan so I have actually never looked at it - but I accept it is crap.

TiVo also just added Yahoo.Shine - I am not sure it is any better or worse on TiVo than it is on Roku - but I don't see myself using it either.

About the only other app I want at this point is HBOGo


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

ncted said:


> Netflix, Youtube, and Amazon work well for me. Hulu+ clearly needs an update, but it is generally usable.
> 
> Compare this to my AppleTV or my Sony DB player, which sometimes crash the entire device or require a device reboot to work at all, and I cannot complain. My Roku stick is better, but it doesn't include a 4-tuner DVR, so bygones...


Update: since posting the above, Hulu+ has become unusable. I switched to the AppleTV and Roku stick (depending on location in the house) which both work fine. It almost seems as though Hulu is intentionally ruining the Tivo experience to get people to stop using it.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

ncted said:


> Update: since posting the above, Hulu+ has become unusable. I switched to the AppleTV and Roku stick (depending on location in the house) which both work fine. It almost seems as though Hulu is intentionally ruining the Tivo experience to get people to stop using it.


We've been having issues with Hulu+ lately too while trying to catch up on Last Man on Earth. I haven't used it in a long time and don't recall it being this choppy and bad.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

raqball said:


> I figured it would not take long for someone to push the blame elsewhere..
> 
> Tivo is responsible for the apps on their machine. They can and should test the app before it's allowed. If it's garbage then don't allow it until the developer fixes it..
> 
> ...


You are 100% correct. The sore spot for me is the YouTube app. It's become absolutely unusable. I couldn't care less who developed it - I pay TiVo for the service and features. If they advertise features I would expect them to actually work.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> Do you blame google if spotify crashes on your phone?


If Google sold phones and Spotify was specifically listed as one of the features in their marketing, then I would.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

DJQuad said:


> You are 100% correct. The sore spot for me is the YouTube app. It's become absolutely unusable. I couldn't care less who developed it - I pay TiVo for the service and features. If they advertise features I would expect them to actually work.


In a walled garden like Tivo and when it's an advertised feature then yup Tivo holds the responsibility.



DJQuad said:


> If Google sold phones and Spotify was specifically listed as one of the features in their marketing, then I would.


I didn't want to argue with the guy. But yes, the Google analogy that was used is odd and not even relevant..

Tivo, in my opinion, is 100% responsible for the apps in their walled garden.


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## moedaman (Aug 21, 2012)

jrtroo said:


> You think they are going to reject these apps?


If they're bad, why shouldn't they? You don't win customers by allowing crap on your products.


> Again, they did not write them, I suggest going to the author if you want them to dedicate resources to make you happy.


So you feel that Tivo has no responsibility for allowing bad apps on their machines.

Don't you realize how poorly it reflects on Tivo when a $50 Roku stick outperforms an expensive Tivo when it comes to streaming? Especially when streaming apps are heavily featured in Tivo ads.


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

moedaman said:


> If they're bad, why shouldn't they? You don't win customers by allowing crap on your products.
> 
> So you feel that Tivo has no responsibility for allowing bad apps on their machines.
> 
> Don't you realize how poorly it reflects on Tivo when a $50 Roku stick outperforms an expensive Tivo when it comes to streaming? Especially when streaming apps are heavily featured in Tivo ads.


Apples and oranges. The roku doesn't need to decode and record live hd or work with cablecards. You are never going to get one device that does it all better than any other device does one or two things. For most people, the new Tivos do an excellent job watching and recording tv, and more than well enough with major streaming services like Amazon, Netflix, and Vudu.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

Jepato said:


> Apples and oranges. The roku doesn't need to decode and record live hd or work with cablecards. You are never going to get one device that does it all better than any other device does one or two things. For most people, the new Tivos do an excellent job watching and recording tv, and more than well enough with major streaming services like Amazon, Netflix, and Vudu.


It's an advertised feature set of the Roamio.

Here is my recent debacle. I called Tivo about the MLB.TV issue I described previously. Tivo said I needed to contact MLB.

Guess what happened when I called MLB? Yup, they told me to call Tivo.


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

I find mlb.tv to work very well as far as streaming goes, I don't see any buffering like I do on other platforms. It lacks some features and the interface is plain but oh well.

I also find the Hulu app functional and not nearly as bad as some make it out to be. 

Tivo advertises these apps as functional, not that they run better on their product than any other device.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

Jepato said:


> I find mlb.tv to work very well as far as streaming goes, I don't see any buffering like I do on other platforms. It lacks some features and the interface is plain but oh well.
> 
> I also find the Hulu app functional and not nearly as bad as some make it out to be.
> 
> Tivo advertises these apps as functional, not that they run better on their product than any other device.


You are making excuses for Tivo. There really is no excuse. See the MLB. TV thread as plenty are having issues, serious issues with it..


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

Jepato said:


> Tivo advertises these apps as functional, not that they run better on their product than any other device.


If by functional you mean it starts, then of course.

Actually using an app that stutters, mutes audio, locks up, exits for no reason, randomly restarts the TiVo during a video, has 0 support about what could be wrong (and I could go on), I wouldn't consider that functional. Call me crazy.


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

raqball said:


> You are making excuses for Tivo. There really is no excuse. See the MLB. TV thread as plenty are having issues, serious issues with it..


I can only speak from my own experience. I'm sure Tivo would love to make a box that does everything perfectly, but their background has always been watching and recording tv, I am willing to give them some time to improve the newer aspects of their product.

You are free to switch to cablecompany's offering if you would like, which typically don't offer netflix, amazon, mlb.tv or anything of the sort. It's hard to criticize a product like the Roamio when there is nothing to compare it to. Roku, fire tv, are not valid products to compare it to.

The entire thread title is misleading and inaccurate. There are a few apps that have issues, but I don't see how you can call the netflix, amazon, vudu and many of the other apps terrible at all.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

Jepato said:


> The entire thread title is misleading and inaccurate


Yawn... :down: :down:


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## b-ball-fanatic (Aug 5, 2003)

DJQuad said:


> I couldn't care less who developed it - I pay TiVo for the service and features. If they advertise features I would expect them to actually work.


Very well put....pretty much sums it up. :up:


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

raqball said:


> Yawn... :down: :down:


Your whining is yawn worthy. If you love Roku so much, go watch some live sports on it, playoff births on the line.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

Jepato said:


> Your whining is yawn worthy


  

There always has to be one...

Added to ignore list.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

raqball said:


> I didn't want to argue with the guy. But yes, the Google analogy that was used is odd and not even relevant..


His analogy was downright silly.

If McDonald's offered Big Macs (yes I'm hungry..lol) as part of their menu, and what you got was a cold, soggy, stale burger, anyone would complain about it.

Technically, it's still a Big Mac. I don't care about their supply chains, distributors, marketing campaigns, whatever. I paid for a Big Mac dammit.. lol

How's THAT for an analogy 



> Tivo, in my opinion, is 100% responsible for the apps in their walled garden.


Absolutely.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

Update to original post:

MLB: 

Still junk and ever more junk than from my original post. Not only do I still get the error message dead smack in the middle of my TV every time I exit the app but now the only way to get rid of this error banner is to reboot the Tivo.. :down:

Also, as noted in another MLB thread, the feeds are terrible! I have 150 down internet speed and MLB streams fine on a Roku or via my Chromecast so my internet is not the issue. The feed during last night Angels game was probably 240p at best. The feed also hung and froze several times. Others experienced the same. :down:

Hulu Plus:

No secret that Hulu has said they will no longer update the Tivo app. I cancelled my subscription so I don't know if it's issues have been fixed or not. :down:

YouTube:

This app just needs to be remove as it's clunky, ugly and slow. Streams work fine but overall the app is terrible. :down:

Those 3 apps have NO business being on the Tivo and should be removed or fixed immediately..

Netflix:

It loads ok and the GUI is fine. OnePass is slow to update when new episodes are released. 

Yahoo Screen:

Is fine and everything plays well. OnePass does not update when new shows are released. Community OnePass is still stuck on episode 3 even though 4 and 5 have been released.

Vudu:

It's fine and works fine. I don't use it much but when I have it's ok.

I don't use Amazon or that garbage they call Hotlist so I can't really speak to them.. I did look at Hotlist after Tivo removed web video downloads and oh my, that app just needs to be put to death.


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## DG3 (Apr 7, 2015)

raqball said:


> You are making excuses for Tivo.


I thought you left this thread a few weeks ago when no one was agreeing with you.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

DG3 said:


> I thought you left this thread a few weeks ago when no one was agreeing with you.


LOL... I said I wasn't going to argue with jrtroo. Not sure where you got the "you left this thread a few weeks ago when no one was agreeing with you" part from and that statement is just plain odd..


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

Apparently, my posts are deleted now....nice.

At least that's evidence I don't work for Tivo.

I just don't see a better device on the market for all the Roamio can do.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I find the Amazon and Netflix App's to be very good. I use the YouTube app, but only as an extension to my iPad and only as a "Hey, Look at this!"

I don't and never will use Hulu+, Pandora is Okay, but the fact that it doesn't auto scale for overscan properly annoys me, I don't watch sports so no MLBTV, I have been trying the hotlist for podcast and I am not really all that excited about it. 

I am looking forward to Plex and hope it is sitting outside of the Opera Store - but I am not all that confident that it will.

All-in-all, I am happy with the apps I use on the TiVo. I use the TiVo to watch Movies an TV from streaming and linear services - those apps are very rich and I find the TiVo to be a very capable platform. Native apps are always going to be better then wonky Opera tool kit based apps..

Outside of the primary use - the apps are Meh at best. (And I could care less)


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

bradleys said:


> I find the Amazon and Netflix App's to be very good. I use the YouTube app, but only as an extension to my iPad and only as a "Hey, Look at this!"
> 
> I don't and never will use Hulu+, Pandora is Okay, but the fact that it doesn't auto scale for overscan properly annoys me, I don't watch sports so no MLBTV, I have been trying the hotlist for podcast and I am not really all that excited about it.
> 
> ...


Since getting cable hooked up the apps are not as important to me anymore.. If Tivo wants to get cord-cutters then the apps are very important.

The only apps I am using at the moment are Netflix for House of Cards and Orange is the new black and Yahoo Screen for Community. These 2 apps work fine but OnePass is slow to update when new episodes are released. Community has never updated and is almost 3-weeks behind.

My frustration with the terrible apps was mainly as a cord-cutter. One of the reasons for a cord-cutter to buy a Tivo was the apps and web downloads. I wanted to ditch my Roku but the apps on Tivo are so bad I really could not.

Tivo could be one box to rule them all if they fixed the apps and brought back web downloads..


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

TiVo "should have" partnered with Android for an app platform.

The beauty of the Opera product is it gave TiVo and environment that would be easy to integrate into the existing platform and allow them to maintain a very independent ecosystem.

The downside of course is the limitations of the platform, the web kit and developer support / interest.

Assuming the platform would have supported the integration - it sure seems to me that TiVo missed a real opportunity.

Or they could have partnered with Amazon and called it TiVo on Fire!


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

raqball said:


> My frustration with the terrible apps was mainly as a cord-cutter. One of the reasons for a cord-cutter to buy a Tivo was the apps and web downloads. I wanted to ditch my Roku but the apps on Tivo are so bad I really could not.
> 
> Tivo could be one box to rule them all if they fixed the apps and brought back web downloads..


They really need to if the company wants to survive. TiVo is obviously hands-down the best DVR on the market - they have no competition there. It can't get much better, I mean when you're simultaneously recording 6 HD shows at once from Season Pass, how much better can it get?

I believe the apps themselves should be the focus moving forward. Cord-cutting is a major factor, but more importantly, live and on-demand content is what people want. That's why Roku is slaughtering TiVo when it comes to streaming media.

I have 2 TiVos, but since the apps have sucked so bad for so long, now I have 3 Rokus. I still watch shows TiVo DVR'd, but the Rokus are now on HDMI 1.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

jrtroo said:


> You think they are going to reject these apps? Again, they did not write them, I suggest going to the author if you want them to dedicate resources to make you happy.


It should be said that it's not about TiVo rejecting an existing app. Netflix for example works pretty well.

Apps like YouTube used to be at least be somewhat stable. Now it's completely unusable. It seems like TiVo allows updated apps on their platform without even testing them. New versions of apps are notorious for being buggy and unstable, yet TiVo allows them which makes them look like idiots.

Like I said, I don't care about who developed what app. We pay TiVo for features they advertise so they should actually be functional.


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

bradleys said:


> TiVo "should have" partnered with Android for an app platform.
> 
> The beauty of the Opera product is it gave TiVo and environment that would be easy to integrate into the existing platform and allow them to maintain a very independent ecosystem.
> 
> ...


I can tell you from personal experience, android media boxes are painful to use with remotes and the interface doesn't cut it for most users. It's like using a tablet on a big screen. Unless they heavily modify the android OS like Amazon does, but Tivo hardly has the experience with android to do that.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Jepato said:


> I can tell you from personal experience, android media boxes are painful to use with remotes and the interface doesn't cut it for most users. It's like using a tablet on a big screen. Unless they heavily modify the android OS like Amazon does, but Tivo hardly has the experience with android to do that.


They still would have had to host what we call native apps (Netflix Amazon), but an android app portal would have been far more desirable then a the Opera store. That and I bet as the Android TV ecosystem matures the options will grow significantly.

I haven't seen the Netflix, Amazon, Vudu or Plex apps on the Amazon fire box - but I suspect they are the same things we use today (just a more stable version)

Amazon chose the Android platform to develop their Fire product line... TiVo could have done the same to complement the "One Box" solution. It would have taken a creative eye to do it right, but the ecosystem has a very stable future.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bradleys said:


> They still would have had to host what we call native apps (Netflix Amazon), but an android app portal would have been far more desirable then a the Opera store. That and I bet as the Android TV ecosystem matures the options will grow significantly. I haven't seen the Netflix, Amazon, Vudu or Plex apps on the Amazon fire box - but I suspect they are the same things we use today (just a more stable version) Amazon chose the Android platform to develop their Fire product line... TiVo could have done the same to complement the "One Box" solution. It would have taken a creative eye to do it right, but the ecosystem has a very stable future.


......or more likely they could've botched it and created a huge mess and PR nightmare the way Ceton did with the POS Echo!


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

They added some lovely features to the YouTube app.

Playlists either skip (go from Episode 4 to Episode 6 for example), or stop without autoplaying the next one.

In some videos there's another ad about 10 minutes in. After the ad ends, it gets stuck on the "Loading..." screen.

Thanks again TiVo for allowing this crap on your system.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

The issue really is two fold.

1> Tivo allows the junk onto their system. They obviously don't test it and are just happy to have the app, even if it's buggy and garbage. This allows them to say they have these apps as a selling point I suppose.

2> Once an app is on the Tivo it does not integrate well into the Tivo system. What I mean by that is Onepass's for episodes take forever to update, if they even do. 3-weeks now and not a single update to my OnePass for Community on Yahoo Screen.

Tivo should test these apps before they are allowed on their platform and if they don't work then Tivo should, without a doubt, deny the app until it's fixed. If the app maker does not want to fix it then so be it. *Quality over quantity* should be what Tivo strives for. It appears that Tivo is happy to get any app they can, slap it on the boxes and care less about it after the fact.

A comment was made earlier that it's the users responsibility to contact the developer and get the app fixed. This is laughable! It should be Tivo's responsibility as it's their walled garden, their box and their marketing that says the app is available.

What happens when the user contact the developer? See my earlier comment about me contacting MLB. MLB told me to contact Tivo and Tivo told me to contact MLB. Round and round you go. No one took responsibility and the app still has not been fixed!

Tivo also needs to work on getting Onepass's to function properly with these apps. I can understand if it took a day for a new episode to arrive in the My Shows list but 3-weeks and nothing? Sorry but that is unacceptable..


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

The biggest thing I don't understand is why the apps work better on other platforms. Although my biggest complaint is about YouTube (I don't watch Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/MLB/etc all that much) I've seen from other customers the experience on TiVo is so bad compared to Roku, FireTV, Xbox, Playstation, even internal SmartTV apps.

It's like TiVo has no pull with the companies to improve their apps and instead just accept whatever crap gets on their system. It would have taken anyone from TiVo literally 5 minutes without exaggeration to see how garbage the YouTube app is.

Barring actual functionality (like recommending me videos I've already seen so why would I watch it again, showing me the same ad literally on every video) I would expect an app to actually work. I hate to keep referring to the worthless YouTube app but I think it speaks volumes about TiVo's business practices as a whole.

Moving forward I hope TiVo really focuses on apps instead of only being a great DVR with ****ty apps. Like I said, companies like Roku are slaughtering them because streaming media is where it's at, particularly if you're a cord-cutter.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Isn't YouTube still just an HTML5 web app presented via the Opera browser? Originally it was...

Native apps are always going to be more robust than html presentations - and I really am not all that impressed with opera as a browser.


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

DJQuad said:


> The biggest thing I don't understand is why the apps work better on other platforms. Although my biggest complaint is about YouTube (I don't watch Netflix/Amazon/Hulu/MLB/etc all that much) I've seen from other customers the experience on TiVo is so bad compared to Roku, FireTV, Xbox, Playstation, even internal SmartTV apps.
> 
> It's like TiVo has no pull with the companies to improve their apps and instead just accept whatever crap gets on their system. It would have taken anyone from TiVo literally 5 minutes without exaggeration to see how garbage the YouTube app is.
> 
> ...


How can Roku slaughter them when you can't watch live tv on it? No doubt the roku or fire tv is the best choice for streaming media services, but that's the only thing they are designed for, so they should be. The tivo is a device designed to watch and record live and watch some popular streaming media services to supplement it, that's not its primary focus.

You have yet to mention one device that can really do everything well...........it's not easy to do by any means. Each device is built on an operating system and code......not all of that code is going to be flexible enough to do everything you want it to do well. You have to pick and choose and make sacrifices when you are designing a device.

My experience with smart tv apps are very hit and miss, I wouldn't say at all they work better than Tivo's.

I don't really understand the point of this thread at this point. You keep repeating the same things over and over. It's not going to make Tivo address your concerns any faster.


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## DG3 (Apr 7, 2015)

DJQuad said:


> Like I said, companies like Roku are slaughtering them because streaming media is where it's at, particularly if you're a cord-cutter.


Then they aren't Tivo's competition to begin with. No live TV. No DVR capabilities. The cord cutters aren't coming from Roku, they're coming from cable and satellite where they loved their DVR's, but what the same for OTA.

And as for apps, I'm sure Tivo would love to have a few dozen of them to please everyone. But one needs to take into consideration the licensing arrangements that these apps have with existing platforms like Roku and others. I for one think that HBO Now will be on Tivo in a few months, and I will gladly pay for it.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Jepato said:


> How can Roku slaughter them when you can't watch live tv on it? No doubt the roku or fire tv is the best choice for streaming media services, but that's the only thing they are designed for, so they should be. ..............


Well, you CAN watch live TV with a Roku if you pair it with network tuners like Tablo, Simple.TV and SD HDHomerun with some workarounds. Plus now you can get SlingTV as an app also.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

Jepato said:


> How can Roku slaughter them when you can't watch live tv on it? No doubt the roku or fire tv is the best choice for streaming media services, but that's the only thing they are designed for, so they should be. The tivo is a device designed to watch and record live and watch some popular streaming media services to supplement it, that's not its primary focus.


I agree with all of that. TiVo nailed the DVR market, but the market is moving more and more towards live streaming content, not just what something on recorded TV.

Services like HBO GO, Twitch.tv, AMC, Netflix originals, WWE Network, even a local Plex server is what people watch via apps. This isn't 2007 when the only way to watch on-demand content was a DVR that recorded only cable content. TiVo seemed to sort of half-heartedly embrace that by offering a few apps.

There isn't 1 device that can do all that. Roku comes close and for some reason they have much more stable apps than TiVo. It seems like Roku actually tests the apps before allowing them on their platform, while TiVo just allows them. I'm not kidding when I say it would have taken anyone at TiVo less than 5 minutes to determine the latest YouTube app was worthless.

It speaks volumes.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

Michael: Sorry about the wait. If it were all the Netflix and similar services affected as well I would have recommended just replacing the device. Since it is just Youtube I would prefer to escalate the case for further investigation given what you have done so. So While I don't have any additional troubleshooting at this time once I get the case escalated our escalation specialists will have some more options for you. I just need a moment to create the escalation case. One moment.
You: ok just please note that i'm not the only one. everyone using it in the forums is complaining as well
You: i'm very surprised this isn't a known issue by support yet
Michael: *Maybe that is what will happen if enough of the forum users contact us. The main problem with forums is that we can't associate their customer information so it is nearly impossible to track o further investigate.* But I'm sure they will look there as well.
You: is there any way to revert to an older version of the app? it was still majorly broken but not as broken as what we have now. now it's unusable.
Michael: There isn't any way to return to previous versions. I do apologize.
You: ok
You: how should i follow-up on the escalation case?
Michael: If they need further information or have other troubleshooting for you they contact you by email. If they believe the issue is resolved they would contact you as well.
You: ok can you please also reference http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=526984 for them? it's a thread that sums up most of the problems. this is a much bigger issue than 1 app being worthless
Michael: I will add that to the notes as well. Thank you for the link.
You: you might want to show that to management as well. customers are getting so pissed about the buggy apps tivo allows on their system
Michael: I sure can do that as well.
You: please do, thanks so much for your help


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Waste of time


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

bradleys said:


> Waste of time


So we should just let Tivo do what they want with no customer reaction?

If they start putting 30 second ads on all your recordings you'd be ok with that and not mention the fact that you don't like it to them?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

It is a waste of time because Google has pulled API support for all tertiary applications (with the exception of iPhone and Android). The only option for anyone not on those platforms is the use the standard HTML 5 implementation. They simply do not want the support headaches. 

They even pulled Microsoft's API license when MS tried to build a native app.

If TiVo can improve the HTML 5 display experience using that crappy Opera browser - more power to them. But I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

Then the app needs to be removed from Tivo and from all their marketing..

At any rate, YouTube is only one of the garbage apps..


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

raqball said:


> Then the app needs to be removed from Tivo and from all their marketing..
> 
> At any rate, YouTube is only one of the garbage apps..


I use it all the time... I browse for content on my ipad, find something I want to watch and I "cast" it to the TV. It works great...

Netflix, Amazon, Vudu are all really good apps - And I use them all the time.

Several people have complained about Hulu+, but I think you deserve a bad experience if you are going to pay for a service that forces un-skippable commercials. :down: I want the experience to get worse not better. Hulu+ needs to fail miserably before content providers start injecting commercials into all future streaming services.

The rest of the Opera apps are just what they are - third tier Opera browser apps.

I want TiVo to keep Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, Youtube. I want TiVo to add Plex (even though it will be an Opera app) and I want TiVo to add HBO Go.

Hotlist, Yahoo Stream, Hulu+, I couldn't care less about - and they are so low on the priority list it isn't worth the time to complain about.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

bradleys said:


> Several people have complained about Hulu+, but I think you deserve a bad experience if you are going to pay for a service that forces un-skippable commercials. :down:




I don't use the service (I did for a month to get caught up on Community) but a lot of people do use the service. To each their own but you are distracting from the fact that the app is garbage and it's advertised as being a feature..



> I want the experience to get worse not better. Hulu+ needs to fail miserably before content providers start injecting commercials into all future streaming services.


This part gets 2 rolleye avatars -->  



> Hotlist, Yahoo Stream, Hulu+, I couldn't care less about - and they are so low on the priority list it isn't worth the time to complain about.


That's your opinion and you are entitled to it but it's not the opinion of others.

And AGAIN you are distracting from the FACT that these apps are advertised by Tivo as a feature..


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

raqball said:


> I don't use the service (I did for a month to get caught up on Community) but a lot of people do use the service. To each their own but you are distracting from the fact that the app is garbage and it's advertised as being a feature..
> 
> This part gets 2 rolleye avatars -->


I read a white paper recently commissioned by content distributors that discussed the level of acceptance for injected advertisement. Roll your eyes if you want - you are going to start seeing more and more of it.

VCR's were made legal by a narrow Supreme court ruling defining fair use, and it is a case that could not be won today. Linear TV is a waning product, streaming content is the future... On demand will replace local recording and when delivered and it will include non-skippable commercials.

Any subscription to Hulu+ proves that it is a viable product and will move this future state forward.



> That's your opinion and you are entitled to it but it's not the opinion of others.
> 
> And AGAIN you are distracting from the FACT that these apps are advertised by Tivo as a feature..


I have said several times that TiVo should have implemented an Android emulator instead of integrating the Opera Store - they could have gotten out of the app business all together!

But as long as we have the Opera store, you are going to have these crappy HTML5 apps... No amount of *****ing is going to change that fact. And TiVo isn't going to remove these products - they work... They are crappy HTML5 apps, but they work.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bradleys said:


> I use it all the time... I browse for content on my ipad, find something I want to watch and I "cast" it to the TV. It works great... Netflix, Amazon, Vudu are all really good apps - And I use them all the time. Several people have complained about Hulu+, but I think you deserve a bad experience if you are going to pay for a service that forces un-skippable commercials. :down: I want the experience to get worse not better. Hulu+ needs to fail miserably before content providers start injecting commercials into all future streaming services. The rest of the Opera apps are just what they are - third tier Opera browser apps. I want TiVo to keep Netflix, Amazon, Vudu, Youtube. I want TiVo to add Plex (even though it will be an Opera app) and I want TiVo to add HBO Go. Hotlist, Yahoo Stream, Hulu+, I couldn't care less about - and they are so low on the priority list it isn't worth the time to complain about.


........and Playstation Vue and SlingTV!


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

If you know how to configure your browser for TV emulation - you can test the Youtube app outside the TiVo (at least you used to be able too)

https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse

You will see that it is crappy in any environment!


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

bradleys said:


> But as long as we have the Opera store, you are going to have these crappy HTML5 apps... No amount of *****ing is going to change that fact. And TiVo isn't going to remove these products - they work... They are crappy HTML5 apps, but they work.


It's attitudes like this that let companies get away with and do whatever they want..

I would not be shocked that if at some point a class action suit is not filed against Tivo.

Don't get me wrong, I do think class action suits are for the sole purpose of lawyers making money but companies do notice the damage from them to their wallets. Sometimes it's the only way to penalize a company.

The apps are listed as features and they do not work. Yes they open so if you consider that working then so be it.. I don't consider an app to be working just because it opens.

Tivo advertises these apps and it's part of the purchase price. They do NOT work and they are junk. Tivo should be ashamed to put them on their machines.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

raqball said:


> It's attitudes like this that let companies get away with and do whatever they want..
> 
> I would not be shocked that if at some point a class action suit is not filed against Tivo.
> 
> ...


Class action suit? You are dreaming - you have no damages to claim. Does the Youtube app work? Yes, the Youtube app works - arguing that it doesn't work they way you feel it should isn't going to get you a damn thing. And who are you suing for the Youtube app being crappy?

TiVo? They didn't develop the app, they don't support the app... They just allow a Google hosted URL to be linked via their box.

It is the same damn crappy HTML5 app they host on 100 other BD players and Smart TV's.

Same for the other applications - You going to sue TiVo for a crappy Yahoo app?

You are out of your mind.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

bradleys said:


> Class action suit? You are dreaming - you have no damages to claim. Does the Youtube app work? Yes, the Youtube app works - arguing that it doesn't work they way you feel it should isn't going to get you a damn thing. And who are you suing for the Youtube app being crappy?
> 
> TiVo? They didn't develop the app, they don't support the app... They just allow a Google hosted URL to be linked via their box.
> 
> ...


Maybe next time you should read the post before acting rudely...

Did I say I wanted a class action suit? Nope! Next time read.. I get that you are here to cram your opinion down our throats but at least read what is written.

Lawyers file class action suits all the time over things sillier than this. It's a promised feature that does not work that customers paid for. All it takes in one lawyer and away it goes. Sure the consumer will get $.10 but that's not the point..

Anyway, you don't care if the apps are garbage yet you keep on posting away in this thread.. Other than to be rude and put down others, Why?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

raqball said:


> Maybe next time you should read the post before acting rudely...
> 
> Did I say I wanted a class action suit? Nope! Next time read.. I get that you are here to cram your opinion down our throats but at least read what is written.
> 
> ...


I never said I didn't care, I said the crappy apps are a function of TiVo's decision to not align with a better solution.

When TiVo decided to go with the Opera browser - we were relegated to the same tertiary crappy apps you find on any generic smart TV / smart BD player. TiVo hasn't implemented it any better or any worse than those devices.

If they had decided to align with Google and develop an Android emulator, we could have the same application set as say Fire TV.

As long as TiVo uses the Opera Browser we are going to be limited to the experience that tool enables.

Thus, back to my original point: Waste of time.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

bradleys said:


> Waste of time.


It's a waste of your time, I think we all get that by now..

I'll keep complaining about it and the loss of web downloads. Maybe Tivo does something, maybe they don't but if nothing is ever said then Tivo thinks all is well..


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I have been wondering about the podcast downloads... Why not just integrate that into the OnePass feature-set instead of pushing it down to a crappy streaming app. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I know a large number of content owners are trying to get rid of downloads all together - but I don't know if that is a trend for podcasts. It wouldn't make sense to develop the functionality of the content availability is going away.

But, it doesn't makes sense not to integrate podcasts into the OnePass (even as streaming content) if it is available for that purpose.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

bradleys said:


> But, it doesn't makes sense not to integrate podcasts into the OnePass (even as streaming content) if it is available for that purpose.


If web video downloads went away BUT they included web video streaming into OnePass then I'd be happy with that. I use OnePass as a reminder of sorts. A new show is listed and I am reminded to watch it. Download would be preferred but I could live with stream as long as it's showed up in OnePass and as long as OnePass actually updated..

That brings up another problem however. OnePass is pretty useless with these apps. I have a OnePass (another thread) set for Community on Yahoo Screen. The OnePass has never updated! OnePass is stuck on episode 3 even though episode 6 was released yesterday. The same happened with House of Cards on Netflix but it was not as bad. I think my OnePass for it took 4 or 5 days to update.

The apps that do work well (Netflix and Yahoo Screen for me) are hampered by OnePass not working for them.

Tivo does live TV recording just fine and I have no issues with that part of the Tivo experience.

If the apps don't work then do away with them. If they can't figure out how to get OnePass for app shows to work then just do away with them.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I am not sure how often TiVo updates it's consolidated guide information. In my mind it should be daily. For OnePass to work well, you should never have sources out of sync with each other for more than a 24 hour period.

It would be interesting to understand the mechanics of the process. How latent / how often does TiVo receive updated guide data from the source streaming services? How does the transform and consolidation process work? How much of that guide data is pushed down locally requiring an overnight connection?

I still say 24 hours should be the benchmark turn around time. (And it would be best if the streaming providers gave the info early with an "effective" date notification. If that existed TiVo should represent no latency at all.

And yes, I should be able to create a CNET OnePass and see all the streaming options available. I am always an advocate of consolidation - I hate having to go into a separate app to access content.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

bradleys said:


> If you know how to configure your browser for TV emulation - you can test the Youtube app outside the TiVo (at least you used to be able too)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/tv#/browse
> 
> You will see that it is crappy in any environment!


That's the thing tho - on my Roku the YouTube app at least works. It doesn't stutter, it doesn't periodically mute the audio, and it doesn't get stuck at "Loading..." after a second ad 7 minutes in.

I'm pretty sure all apps now use HTML5 instead of Flash. Netflix for example works fine for me whether it's TiVo, Roku, or a SmartTV.

The biggest question I have is why does an app work on one platform like Roku but it's completely unusable on another like TiVo? My TiVo and Roku are on the same TV (HDMI 1 and 2).

I don't know about the internal versions of the apps, like if TiVo uses a different version of the app than Roku, nor what vetting/QA process TiVo and Roku have before "allowing" apps on their systems.

It seems to me that TiVo allows any update on their system, while Roku actually tests them before allowing it, keeping with a version that's actually usable and stable.

Regardless, for any streaming media I'll be using Roku until if/when TiVo gets their **** together.


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## Jepato (Mar 22, 2015)

Class action lawsuit lol............you people are too much. 

If streaming media and internet content is your primary focus, then you should have a roku or fire tv etc. Smart tvs and a host of other platforms that try to do what they do and more don't match up when it comes to streaming, that's just the facts right now. If you sue Tivo, hundreds of other companies need to be sued as well.

You insist on comparing two types of devices that have little to do with each other. Tell the developers of roku their device needs to accept a cablecard and record live tv, and see if their first attempt is any better overall than the Roamio....I highly doubt it

But for many people, who watch a lot of live and tv they record, and watch netflix, hulu more sparingly, the tivo works quite well for them. If you watch mostly streaming services, you shouldn't be paying Tivo a monthly or lifetime sub anyway.


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

Jepato said:


> Class action lawsuit lol............you people are too much.


Nobody is suggesting anything like that.

When a company advertises features, and you pay them every month for those features, shouldn't they actually work?

With your logic you'd be paying for cable and gladly accept the fact that getting most channels is good enough. They should all work because that's what you're paying for.


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## raqball (Feb 23, 2015)

DJQuad said:


> Nobody is suggesting anything like that.
> 
> When a company advertises features, and you pay them every month for those features, shouldn't they actually work?
> 
> With your logic you'd be paying for cable and gladly accept the fact that getting most channels is good enough. They should all work because that's what you're paying for.


I have the dude blocked for a reason.. Sadly I still can read his comments if someone quotes him. To bad the forum software can't block that as well..

I assume he was taking a stab at me and I honestly can care less. He read what he wanted to read then made a comment that in the end, makes himself look bad..

No one ever suggested a class action but there are lawyers out there who look for exactly what Tivo has done and they jump on it..


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## DJQuad (Dec 22, 2004)

He just can't read. You said you wouldn't be surprised and he took as you're single-handedly hiring a team of lawyers who will be filing a multibillion dollar case with the supreme court tomorrow.

It's such a shame when people can't understand words.


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## senorgregster (Nov 12, 2005)

The youtube app is stable for me but the GUI is horribly designed. Need a PhD to remember which button to press to do what should be simple actions. Same on roku and TiVo. I stopped using them altogether and just cast when I need to. I test the app periodically with visitors. Funny to watch them fumble.


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## Redding Delivery (Dec 10, 2009)

I agree that Tivo has problems with MLB.TV. My issue is that Tivo advertises the Roamio to be an All-in-one machine that will record and playback, which it does very well, and play streaming content. The MLB app is pretty much worthless, and it should be removed from the app list. I think it's wrong to have an app that is known not to work. MLB needs to be fixed or removed.
Ed


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## ukwildcat4life (Apr 13, 2014)

Redding Delivery said:


> I agree that Tivo has problems with MLB.TV. My issue is that Tivo advertises the Roamio to be an All-in-one machine that will record and playback, which it does very well, and play streaming content. The MLB app is pretty much worthless, and it should be removed from the app list. I think it's wrong to have an app that is known not to work. MLB needs to be fixed or removed.
> Ed


+1 I couldn't agree with you more although I have to say my Tivo's have been streaming the MLB games much better the last week than what they did all of last season. I may just be getting lucky but I'm not going to get too excited as the bad quality will probably just return when I least expect it.....I hope not but time will tell......


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