# LOST 02/15/2006 (S02E14) "One of Them"



## AstroDad (Jan 21, 2003)

I am really looking forward to this episode. Based on the previews, it really looks like it is going to give us something to talk about/completely over-analyze  

I love Wednesdays!!


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

Hey, I'm just glad to see it's a new episode tonight. I didn't check, but was worried that the Olympics would have pushed it aside.


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## Dromomaniac (Jul 26, 2003)

I'm surprised too... I could have sworn last week's preview said something about "March" - and I figured we'd go at least a couple weeks without a new episode.

So, is this the episode where the previews show...


Spoiler



...the timer (supposedly) running out?


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

Dromomaniac said:


> I'm surprised too... I could have sworn last week's preview said something about "March" - and I figured we'd go at least a couple weeks without a new episode.


Next weeks episode is a rerun of the pilot.


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## Nina108 (May 5, 2004)

Was that guy in the Sayid flashback the same older guy with the beard (head of the Others?)????


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Nina108 said:


> Was that guy in the Sayid flashback the same older guy with the beard (head of the Others?)????


If you mean the US Army head-guy, no. Totally different actors. (The Army guy was on Carnivale, the Other Beard guy ain't him)

Have we seen the Other before? (the guy in the armory now)


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Sigh... I'm about done with this show. We're already down to only one of us watching and I didn't even bother catching the whole thing in HD. The episode was somewhat more suspenseful, I was engrossed/interested... BUT there was no payoff after all of that. No story advancement, no determination on the status of the potential other, and they even restart the timer. You can only string me along so much, I need more info.


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## Nina108 (May 5, 2004)

I think it was a little much to throw Kate's dad in there. I mean really, wow, these people are amazingly connected.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

It's driving me crazy who the actor is that played the guy Sayid was beating up...

Very nice touch with the end of the countdown..

I think they've now offifcially met the maximum number of times they're allowed to mention "changing the combination on the safe", ever again.

Thought it was a bit over the top for Sawyer to crush the frog. 

I don't care what the package said, I still wouldn't eat that dressing warm.. Eughh..


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Nina108 said:


> I think it was a little much to throw Kate's dad in there. I mean really, wow, these people are amazingly connected.


well kates "dad" was in his office when sayid was on tv in kates episode


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh, and was that supposed to be Kate's dad in the truck with Sayid, I think?


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## billboard_NE (May 18, 2005)

I was on the edge of my seat, great episode, this is only one of two shows I will watch live so I can catch it in HD. The other show I try to catch on HD is Earl. My only question is why Lock opened the safe?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Ok i'm very upset at the whole, "timer running out, but not really" crap.

Other than that, great episode, but that timer thing just really pissed me off.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Ok i'm very upset at the whole, "timer running out, but not really" crap.
> 
> Other than that, great episode, but that timer thing just really pissed me off.


so what were those symbols?

paper clip | nothing | rocket | bird | arrow????????? C'MON


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## njtaz (Feb 22, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> Oh, and was that supposed to be Kate's dad in the truck with Sayid, I think?


Wait....which one is supposed to be Kates dad? I can't remember him.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

njtaz said:


> Wait....which one is supposed to be Kates dad? I can't remember him.


the guy that first had sayid interrogate his commander (nicely)

he was the same guy at th end in the truck asking him about family and he showed a pic of young kate

edit: it wasnt kates REAL dad.....if you watch her ep (what kate did) you would see him in the army office


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

Test said:


> so what were those symbols?
> 
> paper clip | nothing | rocket | bird | arrow????????? C'MON


They looked like egyptian hyroglyphs(sp?)


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## njtaz (Feb 22, 2003)

Test said:


> the guy that first had sayid interrogate his commander (nicely)
> 
> he was the same guy at th end in the truck asking him about family and he showed a pic of young kate
> 
> edit: it wasnt kates REAL dad.....if you watch her ep (what kate did) you would see him in the army office


Gotcha....didn't look like Kate at first, but now that you mention it.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

henry gale with a hot-air balloon?

another henry gale and somthing to do with a hot-air balloon

http://history.acusd.edu/gen/filmnotes/wizardofoz.html


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

It seems to me there could have been ways to test if the guy was an other or not. Barnard is a dentist they could have asked him if he had work done in the last 20 years. They could have asked him stuff about current events, who the prez is? questions about the internet, music groups, etc stuff someone who has been on the island for 17 years wouldn't know. 

Emily


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> It's driving me crazy who the actor is that played the guy Sayid was beating up...


Michael Emerson.

He's played a lot of bit parts. The thing I know him from was his recurring role on The Practice, as William Hinks - the creepy guy who stalked and threatened Lindsay until Bobby shot him - or hired someone to kill him - something like that (it's okay to post 5 year-old spoilers for other shows, right?).


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Whoa Nellie.....good episode!

I thought it was well done and the scenes from Iraqi were well done. I thought I recognized the area where they walked down the steps from the original Sayid episode. 

Nice touch with Kates dad. It looked like Locke hit the jackpot when the timer ran out. There was a mettallic whirring sound when it occurred, almost like a giant magnet spinning to create a field......


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Thought it was a bit over the top for Sawyer to crush the frog.


I see it as symbolic of rebellion against the crazy French lady.
Maybe not?


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

Nice touch with Henry Gale.....


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

emandbri said:


> It seems to me there could have been ways to test if the guy was an other or not. Barnard is a dentist they could have asked him if he had work done in the last 20 years. They could have asked him stuff about current events, who the prez is? questions about the internet, music groups, etc stuff someone who has been on the island for 17 years wouldn't know.
> 
> Emily


Good call, but where is the fun in torturing in that


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## bga76 (Mar 9, 2005)

Is it just me, or have there been more commercials in Lost lately?


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

getbak said:


> Michael Emerson.
> 
> He's played a lot of bit parts. The thing I know him from was his recurring role on The Practice, as William Hinks - the creepy guy who stalked and threatened Lindsay until Bobby shot him - or hired someone to kill him - something like that (it's okay to post 5 year-old spoilers for other shows, right?).


Just as I started reading the latest posts it came to me, right before I read your post (I'm glad, because now I feel a bit more satisfaction having remembered it myself).  Yeah, it was The Practice that I knew him from.

Loved that look he gave Sayid at the end once Sayid was out..

I _think_ they only showed 4 symbols, with the 5th digit still rolling (I'd single stepped it but maybe TiVo missed a frame with the last one?).. Locke entered the code before the 5th one settled, and the thing was called off. Yeah I saw what looked like a bird, a candle/flame(?), an arrow/dagger(?), and something like a lowercase-cursive-letter-R (my mind is saying rue? is that a letter?).. Great sound effect.. It was not just a whirring, but lots of heavy metal clanging sounds..

When Sayid punched the guy in the face (right after he'd said "Hurting me isn't going to bring her back..."), the first two times, it looked like the guy wasn't even hurt, and that by the third punch he almost "remembered" to start screaming in pain.. Eh, maybe I'm crazy.. but I got the distinct feeling he wasn't hurt at all from at least that first punch.. Almost supernatural in the same sense that Ethan was that strong, etc.. almost like he's not really there, but instead he's someone watching through an avatar.

Anyway, good episode.


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

This has some of the symbols on the timer...

http://www.jimloy.com/hiero/yourname.gif

and this is the timer w/ symbols

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x14/glyphs.jpg

change your name into hieroglyphs

http://www.quizland.com/hiero.htm


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I really enjoyed this episode.

Best line:

*Locke*: Jack, I know this is...

*Jack*: Shut up.



jkeegan said:


> Loved that look he gave Sayid at the end once Sayid was out..


I was just about to mention that. What a wonderful piece of acting. A very creepy, but indefinite expression. It's easy to feel, along with Sayid, that the man was one of "them", but without knowing exactly why.

Loved Sayid's "have you forgotten?" speech to Charlie at the end.

I failed to recognize Kate's dad, and failed to recognize young kate in the photo. So disappointed in myself...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Test said:


> and this is the timer w/ symbols
> 
> http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x14/glyphs.jpg


So that makes it:

S _ _ A _


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## Chandler Mike (Mar 29, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I failed to recognize Kate's dad, and failed to recognize young kate in the photo. So disappointed in myself...


It's all in your name 

My wife recognized him right off, as did I, but she placed him first.

Great episode...Naveen Andrews was amazing.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

My initial thought on the symbols on the timer were the different things for the Dharma initiative.

1. Snake

2. ?

3. Shark fin?

4. Swan

5. Arrow

Lookin for something to back that up, but just not sure.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

I'm really liking the "Others" theme. As Locke said, it's all relative. Truth is there are no "Others", just "others", that is, "not us". It's Sayid's "have you forgotten?", feeling no guilt for what you do to the "Others" because of what you can't forget, that fuels the cycle of violence, throughout history, today, and right here on this island in our little sociology experiment.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

The episode was exciting... but I too am getting a little irritated waiting for more plot development. I hope they let Sayid back in there with that guy.

Sayids speech to Charlie at the end reminded me of 9/11 and all of the debate over torturing prisoners today. "Have you forgotten?"


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Here's the pic of the cutie in training.
http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=katephoto4qj.jpg

The timer from Sledge's page:
http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x14/glyphs.jpg









Another symbol from the countdown clock.
http://static.flickr.com/38/100292832_d11f3b27ce.jpg


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

I know it probably has little to do with the story line at this point, but I just REALLY want to know where Desmond went.


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## tem (Oct 6, 2003)

JESUS !

Just ask the dude "who is the quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings ?" or "What former pro wrester became governor of Minnesota ?"

Any clown from Minneapolis would know that. These people/writers are farking idiots.


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## quaz_the_panther (Aug 18, 2005)

I just read on another board the the translation of the hieroglyphics is an egyptian word that means 'die' in a causitive tense.... so basically a command to die. 

Now, since I don't know egyptian hieroglyphics myself, I can't confirm that is the actual translation and not someone just making something up, but it does make sense.  


And bdlucas, like your thought process on this. 

Tammy


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

philw1776 said:


> I see it as symbolic of rebellion against the crazy French lady.
> Maybe not?


I REALLY hope you're kidding.

Very good episode, again. "Lost" is on a roll right now.

Clancy Brown is such a cool actor.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Fascinating how the trust has slipped away among the leaders. Sayid and Locke clearly didn't trust Jack. I'm surprised nobody has noticed that Ana Lucia apparently didn't say anything to Jack, either. Hmm.

There is a leadership crisis acomin'. Fool Me Twice and I will not agree, but this episode showed why it is a pretty bad idea to have your army led by someone who swore a Hippocratic Oath.

On the other hand Jack seems a little out of control, so maybe it could work. Channel that whole _Lethal Weapon_ Mel Gibson "Do ya wanna?" rooftop scene ... Mel being from Australia, after all. 

What it is about animals attacking or bothering Sawyer? Polar bear, shark, pig, and now the surprisingly fullthroated (yet short-lived) tree frog.

I liked the episode. No answers to anything, excepting perhaps that it only takes a couple of minutes to change the safe combo. Good info to know, now it can take place off-camera from now on. But maybe the plot will start moving in February during sweeps.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Oh man..

I fell asleep my with my laptop in my lap, and my TV paused on the counter display.. (my wife was asleep on the couch next to me).

I woke up, and in my sleep-induced haze, it seemed VERY clear to me:










I see it clear as day now.. it says "L O S T"

(first character, you'd have to flip it upside down and flatten out the bottom part)
(second character - ignore the bottom base and stretch the circle out a bit)
(...)
(fouth character - it's a rotated capital letter T)

The bird just somehow looks like an S to me. I'm much more awake now and I can still see it very clearly. Like a hidden joke - they know we'll analyze it for days, but all it says is Lost.


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## dsmoot (Oct 15, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> I see it clear as day now.. it says "L O S T"
> 
> (first character, you'd have to flip it upside down and flatten out the bottom part)
> (second character - ignore the bottom base and stretch the circle out a bit)
> ...


Wow how much did you have to drink before going to sleep! Just kidding, I cant see where you got that from.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

tem said:


> JESUS !
> 
> Just ask the dude "who is the quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings ?" or "What former pro wrester became governor of Minnesota ?"
> 
> Any clown from Minneapolis would know that. These people/writers are farking idiots.


La Migra: "OK, well then, who's President of the United States?"
Cheech: "Oh that's easy, man, that guy that used to be on Death Valley Days, uh, John Wayne."
La Migra: "Alright, let's go, come on."

Greg


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

Totally didn't catch Kate (or care frankly) in the flashback.

Anyone able to translate the Arabic/Farsi on the walls in the beginning of the episode?


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Thought it was a bit over the top for Sawyer to crush the frog.


Right, because it's not like Sawyer is a dick or anything. 



tem said:


> JESUS !
> 
> Just ask the dude "who is the quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings ?" or "What former pro wrester became governor of Minnesota ?"
> 
> Any clown from Minneapolis would know that. These people/writers are farking idiots.


Would a guy from Iraq even know? 
Does the island have Internet access or radio reception?

I thought it was an interesting Sayid episode but yeah, that ending was somewhat abrupt with no real indication of where this going.


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## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Oh man..
> 
> I fell asleep my with my laptop in my lap, and my TV paused on the counter display.. (my wife was asleep on the couch next to me).
> 
> ...


I think you have it backwards. Reverse the order of the letters/symbols and flip them upside down and we clearly have a T. Then the bird is obviously actually an A. Next bulge out part of the 3rd symbol and disconnect the bottom and it's an R. The last one just needs to connect at the top a bulge out and clearly it is a D.

There you have it "T A R D". I think you helped me decipher that one. Thanks for the help!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Loved Sayid's "have you forgotten?" speech to Charlie at the end.


Yeah, that was really good. We never have found out what happened to Charlie with the Ethan and/or the Others. After Charlie was found hanged, he wasn't in much of a mood for talking so he was never really quizzed on it and his whole ordeal was just dropped. Sayid's little discussion last night was sort of a "I think it's about time for you to 'fess up".


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

audioscience said:


> There you have it "T A R D". I think you helped me decipher that one. Thanks for the help!


Ha!


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

audioscience said:


> I think you have it backwards. Reverse the order of the letters/symbols and flip them upside down and we clearly have a T. Then the bird is obviously actually an A. Next bulge out part of the 3rd symbol and disconnect the bottom and it's an R. The last one just needs to connect at the top a bulge out and clearly it is a D.
> 
> There you have it "T A R D". I think you helped me decipher that one. Thanks for the help!


I thought it was "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Except for the timer going off and we finally know 'something' will happen (which I dont buy could be reversed once it started anyway), and the senseless murder of a frog, what important really happened?

The french woman was too scared to rough up a guy hanging upside down so she needed help? Ok so now they have another mouth to feed. There was way too much flashback on seeing how he learned to torture someone. Time could have been spent on something else.

It just almost seemed like half the cast wasn't there and I felt it was an incomplete show.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> I thought it was "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"


No, it translates to "Get your friends to watch - The Others*"

"*For Others, read Advertisers"

Anyway, the bird is quite clearly a reference to "flipping the bird", meaning....something. Honestly, some of there theories are just too stretched to be even considered as possible!


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

newsposter said:


> The french woman was too scared to rough up a guy hanging upside down so she needed help?


She went to seek Sayid because she knew he was a "torturer". Probably felt he'd be more effective at it than her. Perhaps she's had experience (and failure) trying to get info out of Others before.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Really enjoyable, suspenseful episode. The flashbacks were a bit more enlightening than many have been this season, and enjoyed the focus on Sayid. Also good to see Rousseau...glad to see she's kept herself busy.

Why didn't he ask the obvious questions about world events? Sayid being Iraqi wouldn't think of some local Minnesota issues, but more importantly he was angry and looking for someone to "express" his anger on over Shannon's death. He was more focused on the island than anything off the island. I suspect (hope) that some of the more obvious questions raised on this board will be addressed in later episodes.

Why didn't Jack or Locke think to do this? Well Jack was busy with that crossbow quarrel and Locke is often a big idiot who can't see the trees for the forest.

The Sawyer stuff was just...filler. I hope they do more with Hurley's stash in the future.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

my recording cut off right when said to Charlie on the beach... "When we found you hanging..." or something like that.

what happened after that?


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Test said:


> the guy that first had sayid interrogate his commander (nicely)
> 
> he was the same guy at th end in the truck asking him about family and he showed a pic of young kate
> 
> edit: it wasnt kates REAL dad.....if you watch her ep (what kate did) you would see him in the army office


Wait - so was it Kate's dad or not?


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## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

cwoody222 said:


> Wait - so was it Kate's dad or not?


it was her step dad....who she thought was her real dad...

if you watch her ep you see whats up


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Pretty good episode...

As to querying the guy about "current events" to determine if he was an other...

I think there is some evidence that the "others" have contact with the outside world, so that wouldn't necessarily work.

If the "others" (at least one group of the others) are the remnants of the "broken" Darhma initiative (led by DeGroot, I'm still of the opinion that Zeke/Mr. Friendly is Gerold DeGroot) they probably have outside contact.

Someone recently replaced the washing machine and dryer in the "hatch/bunker" (Hurley and Libby even commented on this a couple of episodes back), the food had apparently been "recently" restocked, (in the last couple of years, anyway), the others have fuel for their boat, someone is maintaining the generation of electricity on the island, or the distribution of electricity to the island, etc...

One pet peeve I have with the episode:

Why is _anyone_ treating Sawyer in any sort of friendly way? I guess Hurley was afraid that Sawyer would rat him out for hoarding food if he wasn't nice to him, but not one mention of Sawyer hiding all the guns and in effect naming himself "sheriff" of the island. Hurley's approach to Sawyer was unrealistically friendly, IMHO, even for happy-go-lucky Hurley.

And, Sawyer's crushing the frog was 100% in character for him.


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## jamesbobo (Jun 18, 2000)

Other than the disappointment of the clock going back to 180 I thought this was a good episode. I'm another one to admit that I completely missed Kates father.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

I guess the writers have been reading the message boards with people wondering why Hurley hasn't lost any weight. Although I was reading in the interview in Maxim (after checking out the Kristen Bell pics, of course) that he has lost 30 lbs. I like the scene though, nice to see Hurley stick up for himself, and nice reaction from Sawyer too.

I was surprised that Sayid allowed the guy to engage him in conversation about having lost the woman he loved. I realize that it was for emotional impact since we really haven't seen much grieving from Sayid yet. On the same note, it seemed pretty casual when Sayid and Ana-Lucia crossed paths, she didn't really seem that uncomfortable talking to him. Anyway, I would think that a torturer, or any interrogator for that matter, would never allow the suspect to bring up personal topics like that. Obviously he had let his emotions take over; I don't think he would ever have gotten the guy to crack just by pounding him with his fists. I didn't really understand whether he had ever gotten around to any real "torture techniques" but I guess from what he was saying to Charlie at the end about not feeling guilt, he may have. I wouldn't necessarily expect him to feel a great deal of guilt about what we saw him do.

And I guess they really weren't fooling us with the countdown in last week's previews, it did actually get down to 0. Still, there's certainly no proof of any serious consequences of a so-called "incident." The symbols and noises could just be there to scare anyone trying to "test" what would happen.


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## cancermatt (May 21, 2002)

I thought it was a decent episode, although when we see Sayid leaving the vault after tourturing our new Mr. Other, he closes the vault's door and leaves the tools in there with our hostage. Nothing stopping him from breaking free of his rope and running out!


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

I missed that it was Kate's dad. When I saw the girl in the picture he had I thought it looked liked Gwenyth Paltrow and Kate never crossed my mind.

J


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

chavez said:


> my recording cut off right when said to Charlie on the beach... "When we found you hanging..." or something like that.
> 
> what happened after that?


Sayid, as you heard, brought up the subject of finding Charlie hanging. He then asked Charlie (paraphrasing), "Do you remember that, Charlie? Do you remember?", in a somewhat accusatory tone. Close up of Charlie, his eyes going wide with and a look of "uh oh" on his face, then black. End of episode.


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## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

Too bad Jack Bauer wasn't there - I bet he could have gotten the information from that guy.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

How would he get out of the vault?

I liked this episode, although I did not really enjoy the backstory of how Sayid became a torturer. There was just something off about it. Nothing major, it just seemed incomplete to me. But, aside from the actual first torturing, I enjoyed the remaining aspects of his story. Clancy Brown was really creepy. What a good actor he's been the past few years between that and Carnivale.

But, Naveen was really on a level of his own actingwise in this episode.

If I were questioning the guy, I'd ask him what sorts of weird things he's seen on the island. I think it would be difficult to lie about that because if he knew what was happening on the island then it would be hard to answer immediately with the correct level of ignorance mixed with horror.


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## headroll (Jan 20, 2003)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> I thought it was "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"


You'll shoot your eye out.

-Roll


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## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Interesting that most recognized the "Other" from the Practice. I almost immediately recognized him as the orderlie from Saw 1. The look he gave as the door closed was definitely loaded, we'll just wait and see what he's really all about. Add me to the list of people who are annoyed that Locke was able to reset the clock.

One thing that no one mentioned...When the US Army raided the shelter that Sayid was shredding papers in, I think I noticed a HomeFill Mid-Range Nuclear Warhead in the corner. You probably only caught it if you watch in AD though.


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

> Sayid, as you heard, brought up the subject of finding Charlie hanging. He then asked Charlie (paraphrasing), "Do you remember that, Charlie? Do you remember?", in a somewhat accusatory tone. Close up of Charlie, his eyes going wide with and a look of "uh oh" on his face, then black. End of episode.


thanks. so his tone was accusatory. I thought was he trying to remind charlie what they were up against and why he had to torture that guy.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't see the problem with 1 and 2. 

AL had no gun or anything. Didn't she ask where Jack was? I think she wanted to get Jack. If I were her I would get someone who knew the peeps in the camp so as not to follow someone from the camp for hours uselessly.

Danielle was looking for sayid. Why would she walk at a fast pace and try to escape when she was looking for someone nearby?


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I REALLY hope you're kidding.
> 
> Very good episode, again. "Lost" is on a roll right now.
> 
> Clancy Brown is such a cool actor.


a> Gee, ya think?

b> Agreed. Great characters, well acted, move the plot along but ever so slowly. In sharp contrast to recent Battlestar Galactica written episodes where background on both the characters and the situation suddenly and without foundation emerges for the convenience of a one hour episode that does not advance the story arc or raise new intriguing questions.
My only crit is that as an interrogator I would ask lots of questions realitive to 'current events' 6 months ago. No way an 'other' could be prepped well enough.

c> Brown was excellent. Great cast.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Test said:


> and this is the timer w/ symbols
> 
> http://lost.cubit.net/pics/2x14/glyphs.jpg


Am I the only one that cant read what is written in cursive at the top?

Is it

swd3 caus. die

??


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I agree with everybody who brought up asking the "Other" questions about current events. Also, I expected Sayid to trip the guy up in a lie with all of his rapid-fire questions but that did not happen.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I think the others would be fairly up on current events. Or at least, them being up on current events would not help me know the answer one way or another. Having seen Jaywalking on the Tonight Show, it also would not mean much to me if someone didn't know current events.

I think the trick for sayid would be to find questions that the person would not be able to answer quickly and without hesitation if he were an other due to the need to calculate a response.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> She went to seek Sayid because she knew he was a "torturer". Probably felt he'd be more effective at it than her. Perhaps she's had experience (and failure) trying to get info out of Others before.


any person who made it (16?) years on that island alone is MORE than tough!


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## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

Test said:


> henry gale with a hot-air balloon?
> 
> another henry gale and somthing to do with a hot-air balloon
> 
> http://history.acusd.edu/gen/filmnotes/wizardofoz.html


Yes, I turned to my wife and said "If he's Henry Gale, shouldn't he be from Kansas?" 

I do think it's unfair for Sayid to be convinced he's an Other because he couldn't remember the details of the burial. Everyone grieves in their own way (clearly, Sayid has his~), and if the guy can't handle the truth of what's going on, it's more than acceptable behaviour for him to have blocked out the painful burial.

I found it interesting that it was the Americans that essentially made him a torturer, not the Iraqis. Fantastic acting by him the whole episode.


----------



## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

cancermatt said:


> I thought it was a decent episode, although when we see Sayid leaving the vault after tourturing our new Mr. Other, he closes the vault's door and leaves the tools in there with our hostage. Nothing stopping him from breaking free of his rope and running out!


True, that arrow wound wouldn't hurt that bad

And why didn't Sawyer use his might gun to shoot the frog?  I love how all of a sudden it's no big deal that they dont have guns and no one ever tried to get any back even with this new 'guest' in town.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Test said:


> henry gale with a hot-air balloon?
> 
> another henry gale and somthing to do with a hot-air balloon
> 
> http://history.acusd.edu/gen/filmnotes/wizardofoz.html


You know, I never knew Dorothy's last name was Gale. That is pretty funny, since a gale is a stong wind.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Didn't Rousseau torture Sayid?

I got all excited when the timer timed out and the symbols o' death appeared. then the writers let me down.

I'm seriously unhappy that Locke punked out to Jack. In their little "fight", Locke should have jabbed Jack in the throat, headbutted him, kneed him in the face, breaking his nose, broken his arm off and beat him senseless with it, finally shoving it up his goody-two-shoes, sanctimonious butt. I hate Jack.


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

The arrow part bothered me. The long end of the arrow was in his back and the short end was through his front. They clipped the feathers and pulled it all the way through the front. Unless they were starting the torture early, why wouldn't they just clip the arrowhead (go chiefs!) and pull the shorter length through his back? Was there a medical reason for this?

Also, am I the only one who was expecting Sayid to call Charlie on abducting Sun? I got the feeling that he knows something.


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

couple things the co-workers are bringing up that i didnt see...anyone else?

in the bunker when sayid is "interrogating" there is a pic of a yellow hot-air balloon

the frog had a darma logo on it

someone else thinks the guy is def. an "other" and he is a plant...caught on purpose...how did he get caught so easily? dont they travel in groups, why werent there any to free him? and why havent there been more to rescue him?


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I was hoping that Hurley and Sawyer would try licking the frog. That whole storyline was so ridiculous that a good drug induced montage would have been appropriate!

In all the time we have seen the numbers flipping around, we have never seen even a hint of red. And yet, when the timer hit "0," there was an awful lot of red showing when the symbols started appearing. Where are all the red tiles the rest of the time??

FishMan raises a good point - how can they ignore the _Sawyer is the new alpha male_ ending from the last episode? Not once did they show Sawyer or Charlie talking about it or guarding the gun stash. And I'm sorry, but with Jack and Locke's personalities, there is no way they would just let that go.


----------



## canonelan2 (May 11, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> Am I the only one that cant read what is written in cursive at the top?
> 
> Is it
> 
> ...


you are not the only one. Can anyone explain?


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

scheckeNYK said:


> The arrow part bothered me. The long end of the arrow was in his back and the short end was through his front. They clipped the feathers and pulled it all the way through the front. Unless they were starting the torture early, why wouldn't they just clip the arrowhead (go chiefs!) and pull the shorter length through his back? Was there a medical reason for this?


I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but I vaguely recall from far too many first aid classes in Scouts that it has something to do with pulling in the same direction as entry since the tissue is already being pulled in that direction, and reversing it could cause more damage.

Of course, that was prefaced by "You're not a doctor, so don't pull the thing out in the first place, fool! You'll just make things worse. But, if you're hundreds of miles from real medical attention and absolutely need to, then..."


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

KRS said:


> FishMan raises a good point - how can they ignore the _Sawyer is the new alpha male_ ending from the last episode?


Because he's NOT the new alpha male. He's even more of an outsider than he was before.

Stealing the guins wasn't about establishing dominance. It was about monopolizing a commodity and pissing off Jack and Locke.


----------



## MitchO (Nov 7, 2003)

Well, Jin blowing him off was clearly because of what Sawyer pulled last week.

I was really hoping that Hurley would put Sawyer more in his place than he did. I did find "It's Babar, not Barbar" amusing, tho. It should have ended with "you dumb hick" or something equivalent.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

canonelan2 said:


> you are not the only one. Can anyone explain?


From another site


> the swd3 is the Manuel de Codage (do a search) shorthand for the hieroglyphs.
> 
> and
> 
> ...


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

pmyers said:


> I agree with everybody who brought up asking the "Other" questions about current events. Also, I expected Sayid to trip the guy up in a lie with all of his rapid-fire questions but that did not happen.


Which ones do you agree with? Some people said that they should have asked him about that in order to prove or disprove his story; some said that it wouldn't matter because the "Others" probably have contact with the outside world.

He may not have tripped him up, but I think given Sayid's training and experience, he as good as got him tripped up. I noticed him following the guy's eyes and stuff. And I think he may have tripped him up in a sense when he didn't answer the questions about burying his wife, he's probably correct that he should have known. That all got lost though when Sayid lost control of his emotions and allowed the other guy to take control, essentially, of the interrogation.


----------



## ReenieS (Sep 30, 2002)

More info on Michael Emerson (the other)

http://imdb.com/name/nm0256237/

He played a creature in X-files, a killer in "The Practice" was featured in "SAW" safe-to-say if he's playing to type, he's bound to be one of the bad guys.

I love this actor, he is soo good at playing the creepy.

I, too, was mesmerized by the self-satisfied SMIRK he gave Sayid when no one else was looking at him. He's TOTALLY OTHER!


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Greetings,
I can solve the mystery. I have a friend that IS an egyptologist.

I emailed her and sent me this info -

Here is her email to me-
---------------------------------------------------
Betts -

I am, in fact, a LOST fan!

It reads "DIE!"

The word is (phonetically) suwadja. I bet I'm about one of 15 people 
who actually were able to run upstairs take out a dictionary and find 
the word within 2 minutes of the episode ending. 

_______________________________


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Donbadabon said:


> Am I the only one that cant read what is written in cursive at the top?
> 
> Is it
> 
> ...


I assume "swd3" is a phonetic transcription of the word - "3" may be the phonetic symbol for the "zh" sound. "caus." means "causative" which is a grammatical feature of a number of languages (but not English), like "present" and "past" are grammatical features. In other words, the hieroglyphs represent the word "swd3" which is the causative mood of the verb "to die".


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

I thought the heiroglyphics spelled "pwn3d"


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

bdlucas said:


> In other words, the hieroglyphs represent the word "swd3" which is the causative mood of the verb "to die".


That would suggest that the English translation would be "kill".


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

caus. = Causative Verb. Interesting.

We use the causative when we do not carry out an action ourselves, but are responsible for the action being performed.


Eg: She had her car serviced last week - (She didn't service the car herself, but the car was serviced because of her; she took it to a garage and asked them to do it.)


Eg: Jack killed them all. Jack didn't actually kill them, but preventing Locke from entering the numbers caused an event to occur that killed them.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but I vaguely recall from far too many first aid classes in Scouts that it has something to do with pulling in the same direction as entry since the tissue is already being pulled in that direction, and reversing it could cause more damage.


This is exactly right. You have to continue pulling it in the same direction it was travelling. Reversing the direction to pull it out will be much more damaging and painful.

So Hurley stashed some food. That's pretty funny. Someone earlier said the actor has lost weight, but I thought he looked as big as ever in this episode.

What was the position of the Clancy Brown character? He never wore a uniform but all the soldiers deferred to him. Was he CIA?


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Because he's NOT the new alpha male. He's even more of an outsider than he was before.
> 
> Stealing the guins wasn't about establishing dominance. It was about monopolizing a commodity and pissing off Jack and Locke.


I agree.

The point I tried to make is not that he's the new alpha male, but he's the pariah (much more so than ever before).

Therefore, IMHO, Hurley was a little to friendly with him.

I can see Hurley helping him, to avoid Sawyer ratting him out for hoarding food. But, Hurley's approach to Sawyer was just a little to casual and cordial, considering the pariah Sawyer should be right now.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> Some people said that they should have asked him about that in order to prove or disprove his story; some said that it wouldn't matter because the "Others" probably have contact with the outside world.


I say that it makes no sense to ask about current events for someone who was out on a hot-air ballon ride around the world, and then stranded on the island for 4 months. Unless they asked about things that happened maybe last year, in which case I agree that the Others probably would know it, if it was major enough that you'd expect anyone to know it.

The best thing to do is probably to just ask about personal details like Sayid did.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> IMHO, Hurley was a little to friendly with him.


I saw no friendliness at all from Hurley towards Sawyer.


----------



## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> I thought it was "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"


Thank you, Captain Midnight.

Jet Jackson


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I'm no torture expert, but I feel inclined to disagree with everyone who's saying Sayid should have asked about current events..

Other people, like Jack or Locke, ok - sure, ask those questions...

..but Sayid is a torturer.. he has experience doing this.

The questions, are irrelevant (I imagine). It's more about reading people.

"Tell me about your balloon.".. "What do you want to know about it?" "Everything.."

That's not just to get him rattling off specifics of the balloon that he might not know, it's also just to _get him talking_.. It's similar to interviewing people for a job - the questions matter to a certain extent, but sometimes more important is just getting the person out of their shell, to see their personality, and what they're like... Someone who's saying nothing (or answering questions in quick short sentences) doesn't have enough opportunity to let something slip - a smile, a look of recognition, etc.

Questions are flawed in that people can be given the answers to them ahead of time.. For a true torturer, it's probably far more effective to just read the subject.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Yeah, I thought it was a great brief moment of weakness when Sayid let his personal life into the interrogation. Reminded me of the scene with Picard where he told his interrogator that he'd no longer see him as a tough, overbearing torturer, but would now see him as a small child with a broken arm, unable to defend himself.

THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!

Seriously, no one else sees "Lost" in those 4 letters? I can't NOT see it anymore when I look at it now!


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

KRS said:


> FishMan raises a good point - how can they ignore the _Sawyer is the new alpha male_ ending from the last episode? Not once did they show Sawyer or Charlie talking about it or guarding the gun stash. And I'm sorry, but with Jack and Locke's personalities, there is no way they would just let that go.


They at least showed _one_ person react - Jin.. "Oh, so what, we're not friends now?".. I figure the writers thought that was enough of an acknowledgement, but I agree, it would have been nice to see at least someone else pissed off, at least for consistency (aside from Hurley).


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> I'm no torture expert, but I feel inclined to disagree with everyone who's saying Sayid should have asked about current events..
> 
> Other people, like Jack or Locke, ok - sure, ask those questions...
> 
> ...


In theory, he could have asked about current events - i.e. between 4 months and several years old. If he had answered things correctly, it would have been inconclusive. But if the others don't actually have any outside contact, he wouldn't have known about something that happened say, a year ago, and his cover would have been blown.

Still, you're right, it's more about the way he answered the questions than the facts themselves. A trained interrogator like Sayid might have recognized that the guy knew the stuff about the balloon's dimensions _too well_, as if he had rehearsed the story for just such an occasion. And there's inflection stuff as well, like asking your opponent in poker for a chip count.


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## scsiguy72 (Nov 25, 2003)

I liked it and I did catch Kate's Father (but not until I saw the picture of Kate)

I thought the symbols were Dharma Centric (The Arrow, Swan and other yet to be found Hatches) But I like the other information put forth here

One think I noticed, but don't know if it fits at all is when we were watching footage of the war the screen said "Courtesy of DIA"

Dharma Initiative Association...?


----------



## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

scsiguy72 said:


> _(...)_when we were watching footage of the war the screen said "Courtesy of DIA"
> 
> Dharma Initiative Association...?


How about Defense Intelligence Agency?


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Here's a pic of the tree frog. I don't see a Dharma logo.

*{link removed by moderator as it was from a forum that was hacked - see this thread for more information: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3787572#post3787572)*

Just a what-if: What if the head American soldier was a private contractor? What if his employer was The Hanso Foundation? That would make his comment to Sayid about "someday you'll need to know something" even more portentous. This would make him another Desmond-type character: an Other who actively seeks intersect in the life of one of the castaways, long before the plane crash. (Assuming Desmond IS and Other, which he might not be.)


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

Cboath said:


> My initial thought on the symbols on the timer were the different things for the Dharma initiative.
> 
> 1. Snake
> 
> ...


Yeah, I thought they were symbols of the other hatches.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> That would suggest that the English translation would be "kill".


Perhaps. I don't know anything about Egyptian in particular, but in general you have to be cautious in associating semantic content with grammatical features. For example, many languages have "grammatical gender" which is only partly correlated with physical gender. An example closer to home, "I am giving a talk" is grammatically present progressive, but often semantically future.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

Have they ever made any references to where all of these people live? The only one I can think of is Locke, although I don't remember if he actually said that Tustin, CA (is that right?) is his current (well, up until the crash) residence, or did he just say that he'd lived most of his life there? I guess in the case of Kate's father-figure guy crossing paths with Sayid, it's irrelevant since they were in Iraq. But thinking of Kate's mom waiting on Sawyer last week, wouldn't some mention of geographical proximity have come up in conversation by now?

I guess I'm making certain assumptions that may not be true, however. I'm thinking of when Kate went to the diner where her mom worked after setting off the explosion in the house. I can't remember now though if it was immediately after or the next day, and whether her mom also lived in the house. If so then the restaurant must have been pretty close by. But then I guess I'm also assuming that it was the same restaurant where she waited on Sawyer. And, I don't think Sawyer ever stayed in one place very long, so even if it was the same restaurant, it wasn't necessarily where Sawyer had lived, for more than a few months anyway.

I'm guessing that some of them lived in the L.A. area, but lots of flights from all over the country stop in CA on the way to Australia (and vice versa, in this case). I'm pretty sure that the hospital where Jack worked was near where Shannon and Boone lived (I don't recall the dad having been traveling at the time). Of course, if they lived in a metropolitan area, esp if it were L.A., it wouldn't have been much of a coincidence to realize that they both lived there, like it would have been for Kate and Sawyer. 

I guess I'm just thinking with all these paths crossing, there'd be some conversations like "where are you from?" "Oh yeah? Me, too."


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Why do people think the "Others" have any communication with the outside world?

Ok...even if they did....if they answer the question then that wouldn't necessarily prove they aren't an "Other", but if they didn't know the answers to current issues then that would prove that they were an "Other".


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jkeegan said:


> Seriously, no one else sees "Lost" in those 4 letters? I can't NOT see it anymore when I look at it now!


No, I think you've finally gone loopey on us.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

pmyers said:


> Why do people think the "Others" have any communication with the outside world?
> 
> Ok...even if they did....if they answer the question then that wouldn't necessarily prove they aren't an "Other", but if they didn't know the answers to current issues then that would prove that they were an "Other".


I think people assume the others COULD have communication, and that since we don't know then knowing the answer means nothing

I think the latter may be false as well. There are a lot of people who don't know current events who live surrounded by them. I'm imagining that someone who spends a lot of time in hot air balloons might not really care who the governor of minnesota is or maybe even who the POTUS is.


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Why do people think the "Others" have any communication with the outside world?
> 
> Ok...even if they did....if they answer the question then that wouldn't necessarily prove they aren't an "Other", but if they didn't know the answers to current issues then that would prove that they were an "Other".


Things like that big cable going out to the ocean, their having a boat, the computer and the restriction on trying to use it to communicate with the outside world, all suggest that they have that capability.

But yes, that's an _excellent_ observation.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

I think questioning what Sayid might have done to get the truth is beside the point. Sayid wanted retribution, not truth. Just as he was able to torture his CO after his CO became "other" by gassing Sayid's relatives, Sayid couldn't exact retribution for Shannon's death from AL because she's now "us", not "other" (hence their passive interaction). So blame fell to the "Others" who were peripherally involved because AL was defending herself from them. The purpose of Sayid's questioning was to give himself a shield from guilt, but when he failed to get that shield he just tacked, and took his lack of guilt as proof of his victim's evilness.


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

One more thing to note about the symbols.

The "seconds" portion was black symbols on a red background, and 
the "minutes" portion was red symbols on a black background.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I disagree, bdlucas. I think he had the intention of finding out the answer but ultimately his rage won out near the end. Nonetheless I think that somewhere in there was some truth. There is something fishy about the guy's alleged wife. I think we might learn that the guy killed his wife or that he's an other. It seems unlikely to me that he is totally on the level.


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> I agree.
> 
> The point I tried to make is not that he's the new alpha male, but he's the pariah (much more so than ever before).
> 
> ...


I disagree.

I don't think most people care _who_ is in charge. That is just a political fight between Sawyer, and the people who think Jack and/or Locke should be in charge. Obviously, Jin is one of those people, but I think Hurley probably doesn't care that much.

Sawyer has called Hurley names before, which is why they are not really friends. I can imagine Hurly saying, "Jack was in charge, but now you are? Whatever dude."

Good for Hurley sticking up for himself.

BTW, given all the discussion about Ranch Dressing in a previous thread , I thought it was funny when Hurley was caught Ranch Dippin'. Maybe he has Ranch Tooth ?


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Two other things I forgot to say:

1) From my vague memory of the The Other xx Days episode, the guy that Anna killed had roughly the same type of clothes as the guy from last night, no?

2) I liked when he woke up and started repeatedly asking "Where am I?".. I liked it because the guy that Anna killed (man, I forget his name..) was SURPRISED when they found the other "hatch" bunker on the other side of the island, so presumably if this guy is from that same group, he also shouldn't know about hatches..


----------



## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bdlucas said:


> I think questioning what Sayid might have done to get the truth is beside the point. Sayid wanted retribution, not truth. Just as he was able to torture his CO after his CO became "other" by gassing Sayid's relatives, Sayid couldn't exact retribution for Shannon's death from AL because she's now "us", not "other" (hence their passive interaction). So blame fell to the "Others" who were peripherally involved because AL was defending herself from them. The purpose of Sayid's questioning was to give himself a shield from guilt, but when he failed to get that shield he just tacked, and took his lack of guilt as proof of his victim's evilness.


He obviously let his emotions get the best of him, but I think his lack of guilt could also be simply a sign that from his experience as an interrogator, he has developed a keen sense of when someone is lying, and his sense of that is so good that despite any conscious doubts, his subconscious instincts are so accurate that he would feel guilty if he didn't know for sure that the guy was lying.


----------



## tewcewl (Dec 18, 2004)

Did anyone catch the _Planes, Trains, and Automobiles_ reference when Hurley tells Sawyer "At least, people like me."


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> One more thing to note about the symbols.
> 
> The "seconds" portion was black symbols on a red background, and
> the "minutes" portion was red symbols on a black background.


...and this is significant of what apart from proving you're not colorblind?


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Guindalf said:


> ...and this is significant of what apart from proving you're not colorblind?


In ancient Egypt, color was an integral part of the substance and being of everything in life. The color of something was a clue to the substance or heart of the matter.

Red was a symbol of anger and fire. A person who acted "with a red heart" was filled with rage. "To redden" meant "to die".

Black was a symbol of death and of the night.

As black symbolized death it was also a natural symbol of the underworld and so also of resurrection.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I think he had the intention of finding out the answer but ultimately his rage won out near the end.


There is what was in his mind, and then what was in his heart. I was speaking of the latter, so I think we're actually more in agreement than disagreement.


----------



## audioscience (Feb 10, 2005)

betts4 said:


> Greetings,
> I can solve the mystery. I have a friend that IS an egyptologist.
> 
> I emailed her and sent me this info -
> ...


That seems about right. "DIE!" would indeed be a causative form of die, or a command. The exclamation point denoting a command.



Amnesia said:


> That would suggest that the English translation would be "kill".


That's not true. Kill and die are two different words. If I told you to "Kill!" the assumption is to go out and kill something/someone else. If I told you to "DIE!" I would want you to just keel over and die. In fact I might do the killing but you would not be commanded to kill.


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Donbadabon said:


> In ancient Egypt, color was an integral part of the substance and being of everything in life. The color of something was a clue to the substance or heart of the matter.
> 
> Red was a symbol of anger and fire. A person who acted "with a red heart" was filled with rage. "To redden" meant "to die".
> 
> ...


Interesting. I didn't know that - thanks for the info.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

audioscience said:


> That seems about right. "DIE!" would indeed be a causative form of die, or a command. The exclamation point denoting a command.


Causative isn't a command, that would be imperative.

Causative, as mentioned earlier, is, well, causing, but not by direct action.


----------



## smickola (Nov 17, 2004)

My first thought when I heard the metallic whirring sounds when the numbers ran down that it was the blast doors closing, not necessarily anything with the magnet.

I knew when we saw Charlie hanging from the tree on the "previously on Lost" opening segment that would play a part somehow....the writers always seem to recap specific things for specific reasons. But I found it hard to read Charlie's expression at the end when Sayid was bringing it up....does Charlie remember what happened, and he's hiding it? Or is his memory of it blacked out like Claire's was?


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

smickola said:


> But I found it hard to read Charlie's expression at the end when Sayid was bringing it up....does Charlie remember what happened, and he's hiding it? Or is his memory of it blacked out like Claire's was?


Sayid didn't mean "remember" in a literal sense. Sayid is inciting Charlie to feel rage, like Sayid does. It's what makes the cycle of violence go 'round.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Expanding a previous theory, what if the guy was not only a plant, but was sent to steal the baby again? That would put a very interesting spin on the Sayid and Charlie thing.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

Re the frog: I had exactly the same thought about druggy frogs! In fact, when Sawyer was holding it I was watching him so closely for some kind of reaction. A couple of times it seemed to me that he was getting loopy, but they never went there.

Re Jin: remember that Jin has more reason to hate Sawyer than the rest: he knows, or at least suspects strongly, that Sawyer must have had something to do with Sun getting hurt. So regardless of what everyone else thinks of Sawyer's maneouver, Jin is not going to forgive/forget easily.


----------



## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

Does anyone else think it's annoying that we have an Iraqi Republican Guard torturer, and guess what? It turns out it was the United States that turned him into a torturer.

Lost had avoided all the left-wing opinion dropping that has weighed down other shows the last couple years. This was a disappointing departure.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

I don't understand how people are unsatisfied with the pace of the show. I thought they revealed alot, without giving away too much. I guess these are the same people who thought the finale was disappointing, and hate the slow backstory episodes. First of all, if they give away too much too soon, there would only be two seasons. Secondly, it's been made clear that this show is so much more than about the mysteries. It's about the characters, and the mysteries are a vehicle to develop character. As much as you may hate a character, or find uninteresting, at least you have an opinion, and it adds to the show. This show would so less interesting if you didn't have opinions about the characters. It would be Law and Order on an island. 

Thirdly, because of this character development, there is no time to show everything right away and still have a good show. In the finale, there was so much buildup and story to the opening of the hatch (which I thought was interesting), and so much to reveal in the hatch, I don't see how it could have been done any other way, without losing anything we know so far. Looking back, I think it was much more interesting to have the "slow" reveals. And think about how much we still don't know, and how much time it would take to explain what we don't know. You can't reveal too much and have a good show.
Where's Desmond? What is up with the power cable in the ocean? Where is the radio tower? What's up with Claire (only 1 episode about her?) What is knocking down the trees? What is the metallic noise? How did Locke get paralyzed? Where's Cindy? What is the Smoke? What is up with Walt's powers? Not even close to a complete list. And many of these would take a good amt of time to explain correctly and in an entertaining fashion. 

Last night's episode was perfect. The numbers went down, we know something that sounds bad happens. But apparently, the running out the clock opens all sorts of new questions. What's up with the symbols? What's that metallic noise? And who was on the other end of that computer? But the point is there is plenty of questions to be answered that couldn't be answered adequately in 10 minutes. and add to that the development of the captured "Other", and Sayid's backstory... 

Anyways, I am far from disappointed. I want to watch more and more.

Note to whomever is combing threads for producers: pace is PERFECT.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

For some reason I thought I saw the CIA guy from Iraq on the boat that took Walt. I may be getting him confused with the "Other" bearded guy, but I do not have the episode to refer back. Can someone let me know if it was the same guy or not.

Thanks,

Jeff


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## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

mqpickles said:


> Does anyone else think it's annoying that we have an Iraqi Republican Guard torturer, and guess what? It turns out it was the United States that turned him into a torturer.


Not really. The Clancy Brown character is a secret member of the Dharma Initiative group, and did this to Sayid to prepare him for his role on the island. The US didn't know anything about it.

I saw this in my tea leaves just before breakfast, so it must be true. Or at least as true as any other theory posted here.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

I am sure the that this has been said many times before, but perhaps the button is a big self desctruct mechanism to "time out" the inhabitants if they cannot push it. every 108 minutes is a little much but... just a guess.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I disagree that the pace and execution are just right. Last night's show had an unnecessary macguffin. Who in the heck would build hieroglyphics into their system. I think that shows unnatural story progression in the opposite way. What I would like is for them to have the story progress naturally without red herrings and macguffins to artificially slow the pace of the story. Last week and most of this week demonstrated that it is possible to develop the story of the characters without artificial crap like this.

It's kind of like the writers are intentionally teasing us with things and are making the show self-aware of this teasing.

That said, I like the pace. It's the execution of the pace that is a big problem. Egyptian hieroglyphics is just a sad excuse for prolonguing the pace.


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## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

To me this episode confirms that there are three groups of people on the island. They went out of their way to show Zeke and his group being discheveled, the lost people being the lost people and Ethan and his group being cleaned up and looking normal. Three distinct groups...what that means, I have no idea!


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## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

Didn't Desmond say that he crashed on the island in a balloon as well? Could the captured other be using Desmond's story as his own? 


On another note, when Sayid was torturing the guy, it seemed like he actually knew what he was talking about when it came to the balloon. He quickly gave some dimensions, gas ratio, and noted the detail of the smiley face. It wasn't until talking of burying his wife that he faltered. I wonder if part of the story is true, even if it doesn't belong to him....


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

KRS said:


> Didn't Desmond say that he crashed on the island in a balloon as well? Could the captured other be using Desmond's story as his own?
> 
> On another note, when Sayid was torturing the guy, it seemed like he actually knew what he was talking about when it came to the balloon. He quickly gave some dimensions, gas ratio, and noted the detail of the smiley face. It wasn't until talking of burying his wife that he faltered. I wonder if part of the story is true, even if it doesn't belong to him....


I thought Desmond said he was on a boat.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jubrand said:


> I thought Desmond said he was on a boat.


Episode: "Orientation"



> DESMOND: It was 3 years ago. I was on a solo race around the world, and my boat crashed into the reef, and then Kelvin came.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

TAsunder said:


> I disagree that the pace and execution are just right. Last night's show had an unnecessary macguffin. Who in the heck would build hieroglyphics into their system. I think that shows unnatural story progression in the opposite way. What I would like is for them to have the story progress naturally without red herrings and macguffins to artificially slow the pace of the story. Last week and most of this week demonstrated that it is possible to develop the story of the characters without artificial crap like this.
> 
> It's kind of like the writers are intentionally teasing us with things and are making the show self-aware of this teasing.
> 
> That said, I like the pace. It's the execution of the pace that is a big problem. Egyptian hieroglyphics is just a sad excuse for prolonguing the pace.


Could be... but we won't know until it's revealed. What other unnecessary macguffins did you find? So far, it's been alot of mysteries that have been revealed or, as far as we know, waiting to be revealed. But I think every reveal so far has been effective to the story.

And as far as macguffins... I like mine with sausage


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mqpickles said:


> Does anyone else think it's annoying that we have an Iraqi Republican Guard torturer, and guess what? It turns out it was the United States that turned him into a torturer.
> 
> Lost had avoided all the left-wing opinion dropping that has weighed down other shows the last couple years. This was a disappointing departure.


I didn't really take it that way, and I do consider it a negative aspect of a lot of shows. They certainly seemed to do everything they could to justify it as a means of getting necessary information, both in the Iraq situation and on the island. And they didn't portray the U.S. guys as sadistic in any way. If that makes it left-wing, then wouldn't you have to say that "24" is even more so? Torture is just SOP in that show, usually the first resort, not the last.

It had actually occurred to me that the video of Saddam using nerve gas on his own people could easily be viewed as right-wing opinion dropping, to use your phrasing.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

jeff125va said:


> It had actually occurred to me that the video of Saddam using nerve gas on his own people could easily be viewed as right-wing opinion dropping, to use your phrasing.


Well that had to have a way to turn Sayid against his own and reminding him of what they did to his people seemed just right. It's not like they made it up, Saddam did gas his own people.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Perhaps it's already been inferred with the Wizard of Oz reference, but I haven't seen anyone here spell it out. Is the Henry Gale reference put in there to let us catch on to the fact that there is someone behind the curtain pulling the strings for everything that goes on on the island? Are the writers basically winking at us? This is what it seems like to me.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

bruinfan said:


> Could be... but we won't know until it's revealed. What other unnecessary macguffins did you find? So far, it's been alot of mysteries that have been revealed or, as far as we know, waiting to be revealed. But I think every reveal so far has been effective to the story.
> 
> And as far as macguffins... I like mine with sausage


Macguffin is maybe not the right word. I couldn't think of a word for something that unnecessarily extends a plot because the writers don't want things to run out too soon and haven't really planned ahead. Russian Doll syndrome?

The whole point is that we don't know until it's revealed. That was the point of the thing. Rather than reveal something to us, they give us the carrot on the stick.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> Perhaps it's already been inferred with the Wizard of Oz reference, but I haven't seen anyone here spell it out. Is the Henry Gale reference put in there to let us catch on to the fact that there is someone behind the curtain pulling the strings for everything that goes on on the island? Are the writers basically winking at us? This is what it seems like to me.


Now THERE's a theory I like! Not that it has any more weight than anything else, but it makes some sense to me!!


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## Deekeryu (Sep 20, 2005)

So the guy Sayid tortured wasn't shown in the Army, nor was Zeke the Head Army guy?

Because that was my initial reaction.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

jeff125va said:


> I didn't really take it that way, and I do consider it a negative aspect of a lot of shows. They certainly seemed to do everything they could to justify it as a means of getting necessary information, both in the Iraq situation and on the island. And they didn't portray the U.S. guys as sadistic in any way. If that makes it left-wing, then wouldn't you have to say that "24" is even more so? Torture is just SOP in that show, usually the first resort, not the last.
> 
> It had actually occurred to me that the video of Saddam using nerve gas on his own people could easily be viewed as right-wing opinion dropping, to use your phrasing.


I agree it wasn't as blatant as it could have been or as blatant as some shows are.

But still, that plot development was partly put in to forward the "cycle of violence" and "we're all blameworthy" and "it's the Americans' fault the MidEast is so screwed up" themes that Hollywood likes to toss around (a la Munich).

One big difference is that with Sayid, we have the notion that "yeah, it's all one big cycle of violence, but I don't feel guilty for my part in it because when you boil it down, I'm on the right and just side, and no other effective means were available." That is a new and refreshing concept (but I don't think you had to have the US involvement in his becoming a torturer to get there).**

Can't comment on 24; have never seen it.

**You know, as I type, I'm starting to maybe change my own mind (with Jeff's help) on this. Why didn't Sayid feel guilty about torturing his CO? Maybe because in the end, he was assisting the right and just side, which was the US (at least in the case of trying to recover their helicopter pilot), and the means were necessary as Jeff says.

That's one way to look at it, but I have a hard time believing the point any Hollywood writer was trying to make was that sometimes the use of torture, and the outsourcing of torture, by the US is necessary and justified. (For that matter, I don't believe that either.)


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Deekeryu said:


> So the guy Sayid tortured wasn't shown in the Army, nor was Zeke the Head Army guy?
> 
> Because that was my initial reaction.


Are you talking about the guy Sayid tortured during the Gulf War or on the island? The guy he tortured in the Gulf War, Tariq I think, was shown as his commanding officer when they were shredding and burning documents before the Americans showed up. I don't believe the "Other" (Henry Gale) was shown in the flashhbacks.

As for the CIA guy played by Clancy Brown, he is definitely a different character than Zeke/Mr. Friendly that was shown a couple of episodes ago as the leader of The Others.


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## Deekeryu (Sep 20, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Are you talking about the guy Sayid tortured during the Gulf War or on the island? The guy he tortured in the Gulf War, Tariq I think, was shown as his commanding officer when they were shredding and burning documents before the Americans showed up. I don't believe the "Other" (Henry Gale) was shown in the flashhbacks.
> 
> As for the CIA guy played by Clancy Brown, he is definitely a different character than Zeke/Mr. Friendly that was shown a couple of episodes ago as the leader of The Others.


I meant the Other that Sayid tortured. I could have sworn that they shown him on the truck in Iraq, but I'm probably totally wrong.


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## Cervaise (Jan 20, 2004)

tanstaafl said:


> From another site


Which other site might that be, hm?


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

devdogaz said:


> What was the position of the Clancy Brown character? He never wore a uniform but all the soldiers deferred to him. Was he CIA?


I'm guessing a Delta Force officer. I know from a few things I've read that Delta Force members aren't fond of wearing uniforms (they, being 'elite', consider themselves above such military formalities) and thush often prefer to dress in civilian garb. i.e., it's more common to encounter a Delta Force member dressed like he's ready for a desert safari than he is for desert combat. I also remember a short lived documentary series on ABC a couple years ago ("Profiles from the Front" or something like that). There was a small Delta Force team followed around in the documentary that dressed very similar to him.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

mqpickles said:


> Does anyone else think it's annoying that we have an Iraqi Republican Guard torturer, and guess what? It turns out it was the United States that turned him into a torturer.
> 
> Lost had avoided all the left-wing opinion dropping that has weighed down other shows the last couple years. This was a disappointing departure.


I take it you don't watch "24".


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

Paperboy2003 said:


> To me this episode confirms that there are three groups of people on the island. They went out of their way to show Zeke and his group being discheveled, the lost people being the lost people and Ethan and his group being cleaned up and looking normal. Three distinct groups...what that means, I have no idea!


Or it could just mean that "The Others" dress their spies in normal looking clothes and have them clean up a bit before trying to infiltrate the lostaways group. A spy needs to be convincing, after all. If you recall, the raiders that Eko killed looked disheveled, but they were working with the nicely dressed and well groomed Goodwin.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I actually didn't like the how he became a torturer thing either as I mentioned above. I don't think it's any sort of winged conspiracy, though. I just think it was kind of a cop out.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mwhip said:


> Well that had to have a way to turn Sayid against his own and reminding him of what they did to his people seemed just right. It's not like they made it up, Saddam did gas his own people.


I'm not saying that _I_ thought it was any sort of right-wing statement, just responding to mqpickles' comment. I know they didn't make it up, but it's quite evident from the political discourse of the past few years that there are many who believe otherwise and who might interpret it that way.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

So the ancient Egyptians built the bunkers, ahhhhhh.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

So, was this a left-wing conspiracy because the Americans turned him into a torturer, or a right-wing conspiracy because the Iraqi soldier recognized the evil of his own C.O. and decided to help the Americans? I just want to know who to be mad at...



Sayid also said that he had thought that it wasn't in him to do these things, but then realized he was capable all along. The story is simply developing another conflicted character, which is the whole point.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

hefe said:


> So, was this a left-wing conspiracy because the Americans turned him into a torturer, or a right-wing conspiracy because the Iraqi soldier recognized the evil of his own C.O. and decided to help the Americans? I just want to know who to be mad at...
> 
> 
> 
> Sayid also said that he had thought that it wasn't in him to do these things, but then realized he was capable all along. The story is simply developing another conflicted character, which is the whole point.


Agreed. That is why I enjoyed the episode quite a bit despite the "russian doll" syndrome and the seemingly off moment of becoming a torturer. I feel like these two moments could have been better with a few more revisions of the script. But overall it was a strong story.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

mqpickles said:


> I agree it wasn't as blatant as it could have been or as blatant as some shows are.
> 
> But still, that plot development was partly put in to forward the "cycle of violence" and "we're all blameworthy" and "it's the Americans' fault the MidEast is so screwed up" themes that Hollywood likes to toss around (a la Munich).
> 
> ...


There's no question that such themes are common in Hollywood like you said. But as far as the moral equivalence theme - and maybe you meant that you changed your mind about this, too - I'd say that they certainly portrayed Saddam as the bad guy and the U.S. as the good guys. (Even if one ultimately believes that torture is never acceptable, they certainly portrayed the Americans as well-intended, and set up the parallel between them and the protagonists of the show, the people on the island, so no worse than them in any case.)


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

You don't think that clancy had some seriously nefarious intentions? He revealed at the end that he could speak the language seemingly fluently. The whole idea of using Sayid as a translator was some form of ploy. I thought he had some pretty bad intentions. Perhaps he just wanted to torture the guy to get the info but didn't want to have a US soldier do it due to the implications.

It would have been more interesting to me if he had discovered the sarin gasing connection his own and had volunteered to torture the guy. But maybe that would make an otherwise fairly likeable character (whom we like despite flaws) over the line into possibly too unlikeable to be likeable for other reasons.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

hefe said:


> So, was this a left-wing conspiracy because the Americans turned him into a torturer, or a right-wing conspiracy because the Iraqi soldier recognized the evil of his own C.O. and decided to help the Americans? I just want to know who to be mad at...


It must be someone who is both... hmm, maybe John McCain will show up in an episode of Lost, too? ("24" reference there since I know there's at least one person who (gasp!) doesn't watch it)


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

> I'm guessing a Delta Force officer. I know from a few things I've read that Delta Force members aren't fond of wearing uniforms (they, being 'elite', consider themselves above such military formalities) and thush often prefer to dress in civilian garb. i.e., it's more common to encounter a Delta Force member dressed like he's ready for a desert safari than he is for desert combat. I also remember a short lived documentary series on ABC a couple years ago ("Profiles from the Front" or something like that). There was a small Delta Force team followed around in the documentary that dressed very similar to him.


If that's true, and he is Delta Force, that's pretty cool that they did it accurately. A lot of other shows would probably have dressed him in fatigues with DELTA FORCE written in big bold black letters on the back.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> You don't think that clancy had some seriously nefarious intentions? He revealed at the end that he could speak the language seemingly fluently. The whole idea of using Sayid as a translator was some form of ploy. I thought he had some pretty bad intentions. Perhaps he just wanted to torture the guy to get the info but didn't want to have a US soldier do it due to the implications.
> 
> It would have been more interesting to me if he had discovered the sarin gasing connection his own and had volunteered to torture the guy. But maybe that would make an otherwise fairly likeable character (whom we like despite flaws) over the line into possibly too unlikeable to be likeable for other reasons.


I don't recall any suggestion that they wanted to do anything other than find the pilot. It seemed reasonable that he would give in a lot sooner to an Iraqi than to an American, which is what Clancy's character said. It's not uncommon for someone involved in intelligence gathering to know foreign languages.


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

I know the CIA/Delta Force guy is not Mr. Friendly, but for some reason I thought he was on the boat that captured Walt. It may have been Mr. Friendly on the boat, but I am not sure. I thought I saw a screen capture somewhere that showed everyone on the boat that took Walt, I just cannot find it.

Jeff


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

jeffo13 said:


> I know the CIA/Delta Force guy is not Mr. Friendly, but for some reason I thought he was on the boat that captured Walt. It may have been Mr. Friendly on the boat, but I am not sure. I thought I saw a screen capture somewhere that showed everyone on the boat that took Walt, I just cannot find it.
> 
> Jeff


Try these (posting links instead of embedding them 'cause they're pretty big)....

*Links removed by moderator as that site was hacked. For more information, see this thread:http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3787572#post3787572*


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> I don't recall any suggestion that they wanted to do anything other than find the pilot. It seemed reasonable that he would give in a lot sooner to an Iraqi than to an American, which is what Clancy's character said. It's not uncommon for someone involved in intelligence gathering to know foreign languages.


Seemed to me that he got a lot of pleasure out of the idea that Sayid was now going to be torturing people full time.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

mqpickles said:


> But still, that plot development was partly put in to forward the "cycle of violence"


yes, that was the point



mqpickles said:


> and "we're all blameworthy"


and that



mqpickles said:


> and "it's the Americans' fault the MidEast is so screwed up" themes that Hollywood likes to toss around (a la Munich).


no, see previous two points. In other words, I didn't see it as political, i.e. who is right or wrong; but rather meta-political or sociological - forget about right or wrong; ask rather how does it happen?


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## jeffo13 (Oct 21, 2005)

Thanks for the links! I guess I was wrong. On IMDB the bearded man for Exodus: Part 2 and the bearded man for The Hunting Party are both M.C. Gainey.

Jeff


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## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

The trend I have noticed of the last several shows has been: A tiger never changes his stripes. 

The Kate story: She's always running
The Jack story: He's always "doing the right thing"
The Sawyer story: He's a con
The Locke story: Not sure on this one yet 
The Hurley story: "I'm Fat dude, fat! fat! fat! fat! there you go!"
etc.

I'd say it is a social experiment somehow, Giving these people a chance to change and better themselves.

BTW, the whole count-down to 0 but not really stuff has to stop. either do it or don't. What's next, it counts past 0, you then have 5 seconds while the glyphs spin, next it will start flashing from red to green until all of them are red, then it will it will start blinking on and off, faster and faster till it's solid, then the sirens will begin a mores code countdown. I think I saw a cartoon like that once.

TPTB have said they knew from the start how it would end. I think it's going to end with whatever happens after the countdown. Probably like the movie "The Cube" If you've seen that, you will know what I'm talking about.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I am sad to report I have seen that POS called "The Cube", and I hope it doesn't end like that.

Locke: He's always having faith in things that let him down
Hurley: He's always trying to please everyone, resulting in pleasing no one


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

MickeS said:


> Very good episode, again. "Lost" is on a roll right now.


Yeah...such a roll that we get ANOTHER week without an episode. 

Isn't Feb supposed to be a sweeps month? Why aren't they taking advantage of that and giving us a new episode every week?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

cancermatt said:


> I thought it was a decent episode, although when we see Sayid leaving the vault after tourturing our new Mr. Other, he closes the vault's door and leaves the tools in there with our hostage. Nothing stopping him from breaking free of his rope and running out!


What tools? Didn't he just have the plier slipped in his pocket? They could have been in his pocket on the way out, too. I don't remember him taking anything more in with him


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

pmyers said:


> I agree with everybody who brought up asking the "Other" questions about current events. Also, I expected Sayid to trip the guy up in a lie with all of his rapid-fire questions but that did not happen.


Well, did it seem to anyone else that he DID trip him up when he asked what his company mined? The guy paused, looked away, then said non-metalic minerals (or something like that).


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Wow. Can't believe we made it this far with no discussion of the previews for next episode.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

borther said:


> left wing opinion dropping. Give me a friggin break. Just shut the heck up and go picket a gay funeral.


And so continues the cycle of violence.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I am sad to report I have seen that POS called "The Cube", and I hope it doesn't end like that.


Cube 2!


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

5thcrewman said:


> So the ancient Egyptians built the bunkers, ahhhhhh.


So long as Baal shows up, this sounds good to me ...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

borther said:


> left wing opinion dropping. Give me a friggin break. Just shut the heck up and go picket a gay funeral.


Doggies say the silliest things.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

jehma said:


> So long as Baal shows up, this sounds good to me ...


Yes, on some level I thought Henry Gale's eyes would flash and then his voice would drop a few octaves.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

hefe said:


> Doggies say the silliest things.


You do realize that when he changes his avatar to comply with the rules this post will become a gigantic non-seqitur.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

bdlucas said:


> You do realize that when he changes his avatar to comply with the rules this post will become a gigantic non-seqitur.


Ruff!


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> I am sad to report I have seen that POS called "The Cube", and I hope it doesn't end like that.


Hey, I liked The Cube. I think I liked Hypercube (Cube 2) better. I saw that one first. There was a prequel one I saw one night that was a definite POS though.

I think it is remotely possible that the ending to LOST could be similar, though I doubt it. That kind of thing has been done too many times now.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Perhaps I'm dreaming (or rubbed a tree frog), but I thought we were getting at least three consecutive new shows in Feb sweep month.

Looking at the calendar, I realize we are only getting *two* new episodes this entire month. A sweeps month!

Put me in the group that's rankled over the countdown timer. They've played us twice now. How's that saying go, "Fool me once..."


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## sushikitten (Jan 28, 2005)

So, tell me again why (in the last episode) Locke didn't just change the armory combination, since it apparently only takes minutes? I thought Locke didn't change the combo because he wasn't sure how much time he had....but apparently he had enough time to relocate the entire armory (which I would guess takes more than a few minutes)?


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## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Because changing the combo would only slow jack down. He'd still get in eventually and then he'd have the guns.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

It got lost last week with the other thread, but what is to be made of the fact that the "Bad Twin" manuscript carries the Hyperion publishing date of 2001? Shouldn't it be 2004 when the plane went down?


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## sonnik (Jul 7, 2000)

The counter is actually a timed 'slots' type game. There's actually a coin chute beneath the counter display we never see.

If the glyphs spin out into one of the few winning patterns, the Lostaways can win big!


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

sonnik said:


> The counter is actually a timed 'slots' type game. There's actually a coin chute beneath the counter display we never see.
> 
> If the glyphs spin out into one of the few winning patterns, the Lostaways can win big!


The prize: more ranch dressing with a 7-year expiration date!


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## chavez (Nov 18, 2004)

Cube was an imaginitive flick. If it had better actors it would've been much better. But even with the bad "movie of the week" cast, I found it interesting.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Seemed to me that he got a lot of pleasure out of the idea that Sayid was now going to be torturing people full time.


You seem to be suggesting that he was taking some sadistic delight simply in the fact that someone would be in excruciating pain, which is an enormous stretch. Maybe from the perspective of someone who had already come to terms with the necessity, as he saw it, of using such means to get information, he was pleased with the outcome that he had mentored, if you will, Sayid to do what will inevitably need to be done again.


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

bdlucas said:


> no, see previous two points. In other words, I didn't see it as political, i.e. who is right or wrong; but rather meta-political or sociological - forget about right or wrong; ask rather how does it happen?


At first I was going to disagree with this, but as I was writing my last post, I realized that, at least from the perspective of the Clancy Brown character, there's a lot of truth to your point. My disagreement was based on their portrayal of Saddam as the force of evil, by highlighting his gassing of the villagers. But I think the key to this episode was the Clancy/Sayid interaction. Clancy had long come to terms with doing what had to be done to extract the information he needed, and he passed that on to Sayid. At the end, he had no qualms about sending Sayid back to the Iraqi army, knowing for which side he would be carrying out his work. It would seem that in showing Sayid the video, he was not as concerned with establishing Saddam as inherently evil, but rather simply as a means to sway Sayid at a personal level. Perhaps his clothing, i.e. not being in full uniform like the rest of the U.S. Army guys, was meant to be somewhat symbolic that it didn't matter so much which side he was on.

So yes, at a character level I'd agree that it mattered little which side they were on, it was about how Sayid came to do what he does, and be who he is.


----------



## danplaysbass (Jul 19, 2004)

I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned Locke's reactions. Locke is normally very cool and collected while under pressure. Bot times when the coun ter was critical he seemed to lose focus and have trouble entering the numbers. Both times he mis-entered and had to backspace.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I like the whole Gale/Balloon/Oz/Man behind the curtain allusions.......

Also, my original thought on the red/black/white coloring of the symbols.....made me think of toys for newborns. All of the developmental toys for newborns are red/black/white since they cannot "see" other colors very well, if at all. The red/black helps develop the eyesight.

There could be twisted plot lines in with this idea.....

Also, unrelated but fun.......The other day I typed 4815162342 into my T9word text editor on my cell phone and I got the following: *It'l.mafia*


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

danplaysbass said:


> I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned Locke's reactions. Locke is normally very cool and collected while under pressure. Bot times when the coun ter was critical he seemed to lose focus and have trouble entering the numbers. Both times he mis-entered and had to backspace.


I just didn't make as much out of that. He was running out of time and had to type _fast_. Regardless of his demeanor, he only had a certain amount of time. Plus, there's one thing Locke has always been pretty obsessed with and that is making sure the code is entered in time.


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## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I am sad to report I have seen that POS called "The Cube", and I hope it doesn't end like that.
> 
> Locke: He's always having faith in things that let him down
> Hurley: He's always trying to please everyone, resulting in pleasing no one


Ah, but have you seen the sequel, "Hypercube"? I am embarrassed to say that I have. 









Edit: Arg, someone beat me to that!


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

jeff125va said:


> You seem to be suggesting that he was taking some sadistic delight simply in the fact that someone would be in excruciating pain, which is an enormous stretch. Maybe from the perspective of someone who had already come to terms with the necessity, as he saw it, of using such means to get information, he was pleased with the outcome that he had mentored, if you will, Sayid to do what will inevitably need to be done again.


Not at all what I was trying to say. I was referring to the fact that he seemed delighted at the very end when he said that Sayid had a "new skill set", almost as if he knew that it was going to trouble Sayid for the rest of his life.


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

chavez said:


> thanks. so his tone was accusatory. I thought was he trying to remind charlie what they were up against and why he had to torture that guy.


No, it wasn't accusatory.
He was saying "Have you forgotten?" not "Do you remember?"
Implying that Jack and Locke have forgotton just how brutal the Others have been to them in the past.

you had it right.
:up:

JD


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## Jericho Dog (Feb 10, 2006)

KRS said:


> I thought the heiroglyphics spelled "pwn3d"


That's what I thought!

"You're all dead, yu r noob's!!!!!111!!!11"
"All your hatch belong to us!


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I don't understand ABC's scheduling of the show either. The Olympics ratings are at an all-time low. The most popular event, figure skating, is not even on the schedule next Wednesday. If the ABC execs are really smart, they would take advantage of the low-ratings and put on new episodes for the rest of the sweeps.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

I agree. I heard this morning that American Idol pulled in TWICE as many viewers as the Olympics!


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## jeff125va (Mar 15, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Not at all what I was trying to say. I was referring to the fact that he seemed delighted at the very end when he said that Sayid had a "new skill set", almost as if he knew that it was going to trouble Sayid for the rest of his life.


Ok. Either way, my point about his intentions were not specifically about his character - there was some deeper stuff going on in that regard. It was in response to someone saying that there was an attempt to portray the Americans as evil torturers, and that their intentions of trying to find a downed pilot tended to show otherwise.

I don't think intentions, in that sense, mattered much to Clancy Brown's character, and I think that was part of the point of the story. So if he seemed "delighted" I don't think it had anything to do with making any sort of statement about whose side was right or wrong. In passing on that "skill set" to Sayid, part of being able to do so was ignoring such questions. Yes, Sayid was swayed by the video, but more at a personal level. He became a torturer for Iraq, so it seems that it wasn't outrage at Saddam's atrocities that motivated him, or he would have defected or something. It wasn't so much about whose side they were on, they were just doing their jobs.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I agree with all of that. I only disliked the transition to torturer because I felt it was too soft of a reason. I would have preferred him to volunteer to torture the guy out of the blue. Being coerced to me weakens the aspect of his personality that desires to torture people.


----------



## tanstaafl (Oct 22, 2002)

Cervaise said:


> Which other site might that be, hm?


This one... Maybe you've heard of it? 
(Hey, didn't know we had other Dopers here. Who else is hanging around?)


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

sonnik said:


> The counter is actually a timed 'slots' type game. There's actually a coin chute beneath the counter display we never see.
> 
> If the glyphs spin out into one of the few winning patterns, the Lostaways can win big!


That was my first thought when I saw it too.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

dtle said:


> I don't understand ABC's scheduling of the show either. The Olympics ratings are at an all-time low. The most popular event, figure skating, is not even on the schedule next Wednesday. If the ABC execs are really smart, they would take advantage of the low-ratings and put on new episodes for the rest of the sweeps.


If they have no breaks during February, then we'll have to hear all the complaints in April when they take a break then. You can't win. There's X episodes during a season that lasts Y weeks. There will be Y-X weeks of repeats or other programming.

One factor people don't take into account is the production schedule...how much of the airing schedule is based on that? I don't know, but I'll bet it's at least a factor.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

hefe said:


> One factor people don't take into account is the production schedule...how much of the airing schedule is based on that? I don't know, but I'll bet it's at least a factor.


Especially when you are scoring each episode with an orchestra.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

From what I've heard, each episode of Lost takes at least 10 days to shoot.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I enjoyed this one a lot. I've really come to respect Naveen Andrews as an actor and he really excelled in this one. I missed the Kate reference in the flashback, but picked up on the Henry Gale reference. I thought the hyroglyphics popping up was yet another exercise in psychology. They seemed ominous, both in that they're unfamiliar to most, and the fact that they were red & black. The noise we heard sounded like blast doors coming down, as someone else has mentioned, but we saw nothing physically happen. I thought it was interesting.

Someone early in the thread mentioned that Gale gave Sayid a smirk. I don't remember that and I was expecting it after Jack pulled Sayid out and he was looking back in at Gale.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> I agree with all of that. I only disliked the transition to torturer because I felt it was too soft of a reason. I would have preferred him to volunteer to torture the guy out of the blue. Being coerced to me weakens the aspect of his personality that desires to torture people.


I don't think it was about his personality, in fact just the opposite. I think the point was that anyone is capable of violence under the right circumstances, and that's what keeps the cycle of violence going. I think we will see more of that as the story unfolds. We're certainly being set up for that with Jack and AL raising an army.

Wouldn't this be a fun: this season we see our lostaways engaging in escalating acts of justified (so it is argued) violence against the others. Next season, whole new cast, and we see the story from the point of view of the others, and come to understand how kidnapping children is as justifiable a response on their part to their circumstances.


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

PJO1966 said:


> ...
> Someone early in the thread mentioned that Gale gave Sayid a smirk. I don't remember that and I was expecting it after Jack pulled Sayid out and he was looking back in at Gale.


I don't know that I'd call it a "smirk" so much as an icy stare... Of course, we could all be reading too much into it (What? Reading too much into LOST? INCONCEIVABLE!). Still, though, I think the look was intended to convey something other than the fact that he was an innocent victim...


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

ScottE22 said:


> I don't know that I'd call it a "smirk" so much as an icy stare... Of course, we could all be reading too much into it (What? Reading too much into LOST? INCONCEIVABLE!). Still, though, I think the look was intended to convey something other than the fact that he was an innocent victim...


The great thing about it is that it was ambiguous. Might have had a sneery quality (like "wait till my friends get their hands on you"), might have just been fear, or anger, or hatred, or all of the above.


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## Ladd Morse (Feb 21, 2002)

bdlucas said:


> The great thing about it is that it was ambiguous. Might have had a sneery quality (like "wait till my friends get their hands on you"), might have just been fear, or anger, or hatred, or all of the above.


It was the complete lack of emotion that struck me -- the fact that his facial expression showed complete control, not anger or weeping or pain, etc. after what appeared to be a savage beating, tells me there is definitely something going on with him.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I suppose really the important point is that they showed his face at all. The decision to film and then include in the final cut the guy's face to me means SOMETHING. I took it to mean that the look on his face was smug, and interpreted the mouth position as a very slight smirk. But really, they focused on him for a reason. If they didn't want us to think he might be an other, they'd not have shown that shot I think.


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## chewbaccad (Feb 16, 2005)

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought the countdown timer was trying to dial a Stargate  

An interesting episode (and a terrific acting job by Naveen), but chalk me up as another one who's losing the thrill of Lost. It used to be a live-watch, but now I'm slipping to a few days later. I'm convinced most of these survivors got the island when "short plane" crashed


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

ScottE22 said:


> I don't know that I'd call it a "smirk" so much as an icy stare... Of course, we could all be reading too much into it (What? Reading too much into LOST? INCONCEIVABLE!). Still, though, I think the look was intended to convey something other than the fact that he was an innocent victim...


I think it's possible that ScottE22 is a Lost writer hiding his identity on this forum, posting info.

If you look at the comment above, you'll notice that he says "LOST? INCONCEIVABLE!" all in caps.. that's got to be a clue - none of the rest of the post is _entirely_ in caps..

Perhaps his saying we're reading too much into it is to steer us away from some truth that we're clearly on to already?

Also, note the double quotation marks around the word smirk...

The phrase "icy stare", minus the space, is 8 characters.. that's one of the numbers! (4 *8* 15 16 23 42)



Spoiler



Umm, yeah, I'm kidding. : )


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## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> I think it's possible that ScottE22 is a Lost writer hiding his identity on this forum, posting info.
> 
> If you look at the comment above, you'll notice that he says "LOST? INCONCEIVABLE!" all in caps.. that's got to be a clue - none of the rest of the post is _entirely_ in caps..
> 
> ...


Drat - foiled again...

I never imagined someone would figure out that I'm *One Of Them*.

:up: :up: :up:


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## joits (Feb 8, 2006)

davezatz said:


> Sigh... I'm about done with this show. We're already down to only one of us watching and I didn't even bother catching the whole thing in HD. The episode was somewhat more suspenseful, I was engrossed/interested... BUT there was no payoff after all of that. No story advancement, no determination on the status of the potential other, and they even restart the timer. You can only string me along so much, I need more info.


OK bye then... 

I've watched waaay too many shows similar to Lost where they take their time in revealing something that it hardly bothers me now. I knew from the moment Lost began that we would constantly be shown something only for it to be misleading. a few times i've let myself be overly excited, like when the trailer showed Jin speaking english... of course that was just a dream.

my biggest fear is that Lost will go on for too long. i can understand some of the frustrations that many people have about the show. i don't feel any frustration just yet. but i can clearly see it happening maybe two years from now if we haven't found out why there's polar bears and weird black smoke around the island. and what the hell ate the pilot? for now... i'm sitting back enjoying the show...


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

What the hell ate the pilot? They already told us. The black smoke. The security system.


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## Hathor46 (May 13, 2004)

Well, it's been 5 years since I studied Middle Egyptian in college. I immediately went to my Faulkner dictionary but couldn't find it. I did find a word that was similiar and I interpret it as saying "run away or you will die" . Very cool episode. I enjoyed it. =)


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

Anyone wanna bet on the odds that one of the books that Locke tossed around in the previous episode was an Egyptian glyphic dictionary? Cause unless one of the so far unknown Lostaways is magically an Egyptian student or he finds said book, Locke might never know what the signs mean.

The *really* fun part will be in seeing if he lets the clock go down that far again, just to completely see what it says. Or prove what he saw.

(Personally, not knowing a bit of Egyptian past or present, I think the graphics meant "Cake or Death".  )


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## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> Anyone wanna bet on the odds that one of the books that Locke tossed around in the previous episode was an Egyptian glyphic dictionary? Cause unless one of the so far unknown Lostaways is magically an Egyptian student or he finds said book, Locke might never know what the signs mean.
> 
> The *really* fun part will be in seeing if he lets the clock go down that far again, just to completely see what it says. Or prove what he saw.
> 
> (Personally, not knowing a bit of Egyptian past or present, I think the graphics meant "Cake or Death".  )


I'll...take....death. Did I say death? No, I meant cake! CAKE!


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## ShinyPrincess (Jan 24, 2006)

Oh no! Apparently lost-media and the forums that go along with it (which are the best out there!) have been hacked. Did anyone else notice?!


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Damn script kiddies.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

I think the device that you heard starting to rev up when the counter went Egyptian was the cyclotron they use to irradiate ranch dressing that would make it last seven years! 

Also- No way is Rousseau is French. C'mon, she was wearing a tank top, I can tell. 
Plus, where does she get her razors??


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

She's tough. She just pulls the hair out by the roots.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> She's tough. She just pulls the hair out by the roots.


with her teeth


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Fool Me Twice said:


> She's tough. She just pulls the hair out by the roots.


So you agree she's not really French? Both sentences seem to indicate that!


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Sort of maybe off topic: For those of you that liked the Cube did you also like Dark City? There were a couple of moments when Sawyer, Michael, Jin were out on the raft I half-expected them to hit some sort of glass wall.  Anyways, I wouldn't be disappointed if this show took a sci-fi twist.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> So you agree she's not really French? Both sentences seem to indicate that!


Maybe there was some symbolism to Sawyer's crushing the frog.
Or am I over analysing?


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

hefe said:


> If they have no breaks during February, then we'll have to hear all the complaints in April when they take a break then. You can't win. There's X episodes during a season that lasts Y weeks. There will be Y-X weeks of repeats or other programming.


I don't have a problem with the breaks. (I understand the X/Y ratio.)

I would rather see 3-4 new episodes in a row, then take a few weeks off, than to see 1 or 2, then a week off, then another, then two weeks off, then 2, etc. I find it hard getting on & off the train. I like to ride for a while . . . then go on holiday  :up:


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

5thcrewman said:


> Also- No way is Rousseau is French. C'mon, she was wearing a tank top, I can tell.
> Plus, where does she get her razors??


Come on now, French women can wear tank tops as is evident by France's... strike that, the World's, hottest news person:









As to where Rousseau gets her razors, who knows. I would have expected all the ladies to be a bit more hairy by now.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Passed on to me today: An anagram for "Henry Gale Minnesota" is "see an other man lying".


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Passed on to me today: An anagram for "Henry Gale Minnesota" is "see an other man lying".


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

5thcrewman said:


> So you agree she's not really French? Both sentences seem to indicate that!


Well, the actress is Croatian....


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Waldorf said:


> Sort of maybe off topic...did you also like Dark City? There were a couple of moments when Sawyer, Michael, Jin were out on the raft I half-expected them to hit some sort of glass wall.  Anyways, I wouldn't be disappointed if this show took a sci-fi twist.


Dark City IS my all-time favorite movie. :up:


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

ShinyPrincess said:


> Oh no! Apparently lost-media and the forums that go along with it (which are the best out there!) have been hacked. Did anyone else notice?!


Site's been restored as of last night.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Dark City was much, much better than Cube. I think a better analogy would be the truman show.


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## mcdougll (Jan 27, 2003)

I hate to say it, but I think the whole 'timer' thing will probably be a big disappointment. Either the timer has to do with the whole big secret behind the show (which means it won't be revealed until the end of Lost, if ever) or it has little/nothing to do with it (which would be a big disappointment). 
The premise of Lost is the mystery of what is happening on the island, why they are there, and who's behind it. Once they reveal these things, the motivation to watch the show is gone. So, the writers are going to drag out as long as possible the revealing of this info. 
My one hope is that all is actually revealed at the end of the series (and that it's as good as B5, and not like X-files).


----------



## Test (Dec 8, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> Site's been restored as of last night.


i checked lost media the night of the ep to see if they had hi-def shots.......nothing for this ep, just from the previews of the ep from the previous ep...it only had 22 pics while the other episodes had hundreds or a thousand...either they couldnt take shots of the show or they just dont care n e more...HA


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't think that the motivation to watch the show would end if they revealed what's happening on the island. I think it could actually be just as good if not better if done right. It would be nice to see some sort of plan. Right now my biggest disappointment in this show relates in the fact that they are so hesitant to reveal anything, and they go out of their way to do mysterious things with the plot. 

Most of my favorite episodes don't involve some huge red herring or mystery, they involve characters doing interesting things when confronted with something concrete.


----------



## MerlinMacuser (Jan 4, 2004)

my prediction for the last shot of Lost....for some reason yet to be decided, the timer runs down to zero...sounding alarms go silent and the screen goes black...the End.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

No... that's not elaborate enough. It would need to involve an impending rescue. Like maybe they finally get a hold of someone and we see things from the perspective of who they are speaking with. Then the timer runs out, and it cuts back to the people saying "Hello? Hello?" and then someone sees walt.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

The Professor helps rebuild the balloon and Henry Gale sails off promising to send back a rescue party, but since he actually killed his wife...
_"So this is the tale of our castaways,
they're here for a long, long time..."_

But seriously- What about spreading out the 'smiley face' of the balloon and hope for a satellite flyover?


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

You're assuming that the government doesn't already know what's going on and/or isn't resposnible for it. Or that the world is not in embers save the one island.


----------



## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> You're assuming that the government doesn't already know what's going on and/or isn't resposnible for it. Or that the world is not in embers save the one island.


It's at least strongly implied in the second to most recent episode that the world still exists, with Hurley picking up the radio signal from somewhere out there.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Could be a clear channel station. No humans are needed for that one. Just a computer. As you can see it's a perfect theory with no holes in it.


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

TAsunder said:
 

> Could be a clear channel station. No humans are needed for that one.


Except of course for someone to enter the code and reset the counter every 108 minutes.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Maybe that's what the button on the island is for... resetting the clear channel programming to the top of the song order.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

MerlinMacuser said:


> my prediction for the last shot of Lost....for some reason yet to be decided, the timer runs down to zero...sounding alarms go silent and the screen goes black...the End.


Or at least this season.

I have to say, if I were a writer on Lost, that's what I'd do...


----------



## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> Dark City was much, much better than Cube. I think a better analogy would be the truman show.


The first two Cube movies and Dark City are guilty pleasures for me. To be fair, Dark City was a much higher budget movie.

I'm still thinking that even the flashbacks might be in a simulated world. If you had ~50 people in a simulated world, chances are their paths would overlap quite often, much more often than they would in the real world. Then you have more obscure things like the same law conference room appearing in what is supposed to be two different countries, although that was probably just the coincidental reuse of a set. I don't actually think the writers would take this route, but it fits.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't feel too guilty about dark city. Ebert said it was the best film of that year.

For it to be a simulation, it would have to be significantly more involved than dark city or the truman show if they actually experienced what they seem to have.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Maybe it's a Cylon experiment.

(Hey, I just watched the first 8 episodes of Battlestar Galactica)


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

I had someone utterly ruin Dark City for me, deliberately. He didn't like the movie, and he was telling me not to "waste my time" with it, and to make his point he (against my attempts to stop him) flat out told me the ending in one sentence, before I'd ever seen the movie.

I think it was that day that I started becoming the crazy person I am now about spoilers, sometimes even covering my ears rather than let someone ruin a movie for me.

To this day I don't know how much I would have liked Dark City. I've seen it since, but knowing the ending seriously hampered my ability to really enjoy it as much as I could have - I think.. I dunno.. MAYBE I'd agree it wasn't great.. or maybe I'd love it. Instead, that was ruined. Grrrr..


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

All this Dark City talk has me wanting to see it again. Jennifer Connelly :up: :up: :up: :up:


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I've never even heard of Dark City, but I love surprise twists and I love Jennifer Connelly so I guess it's getting bumped to the top of my list.


----------



## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

mqpickles said:


> Does anyone else think it's annoying that we have an Iraqi Republican Guard torturer, and guess what? It turns out it was the United States that turned him into a torturer.
> 
> Lost had avoided all the left-wing opinion dropping that has weighed down other shows the last couple years. This was a disappointing departure.


Oh, please. Sayyid was already a torturer. That fact had already been established in one of the earlier flashbacks. So stop your right wing whining. There's no agenda here. Move on.


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Kevdog said:


> Oh, please. Sayyid was already a torturer.


He wasn't a torturer before he met the Americans. He was just a Communications Officer.


----------



## jubrand (May 11, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> I've never even heard of Dark City, but I love surprise twists and I love Jennifer Connelly so I guess it's getting bumped to the top of my list.


It's very cool and highly recommended. Also the first movie I ever rented on DVD!


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> I'm guessing a Delta Force officer. I know from a few things I've read that Delta Force members aren't fond of wearing uniforms (they, being 'elite', consider themselves above such military formalities) and thush often prefer to dress in civilian garb. i.e., it's more common to encounter a Delta Force member dressed like he's ready for a desert safari than he is for desert combat. I also remember a short lived documentary series on ABC a couple years ago ("Profiles from the Front" or something like that). There was a small Delta Force team followed around in the documentary that dressed very similar to him.


Well, it's a pretty safe bet that he was either CIA or Special Forces (not necessarily Delta Force - I think Green Beret would be more likely) because a) he was not in uniform, and b) was clearly in charge. Given his age and lack of physical condition (comparatively, of course. Special Forces members, and especially Delta operators, are among the most physically fit people in the world), I vote CIA.

You're right that SpecForces "operators" (they use that term instead of officer/soldier) don't wear uniforms and try to blend in with the natives as much as possible. However, Delta Force is a super-secret (the military doesn't even acknowledge its existence) counter-terrorist unit whereas the Green Berets are geared more towards covert warfare and recon.


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

devdogaz said:


> I've never even heard of Dark City, but I love surprise twists and I love Jennifer Connelly so I guess it's getting bumped to the top of my list.


You will NOT be disappointed, plus it has Keifer Sutherland in it (as well as Jennifer Connelly). I've watched it at least a half dozen times.


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

Fool Me Twice said:


> He wasn't a torturer before he met the Americans. He was just a Communications Officer.


So what was he doing to that prisoner in the season 1 episode Solitary? What was he doing to Nadia? Tickle her?

Let's see what the ABC's Lost website says.


> We FLASHBACK to an interrogation room where a younger, uniformed Sayid works over a prisoner tied to a chair. He beats him savagely until his victim relents. Sayid's superior, "Omar" is impressed enough to promote him and as they playfully tease each other outside the torture rooms, a female prisoner is led across their path. She and Sayid seem to share a flash of recognition, but before they can act on it, she is led away.


Sounds like torture to me.


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

I believe that was after the Gulf War though, wasn't it? That was near the end of his time in Iraq when he fled due to having to torture his childhood sweetheart.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jfjellstad said:


> So what was he doing to that prisoner in the season 1 episode Solitary? What was he doing to Nadia? Tickle her?
> 
> Let's see what the ABC's Lost website says.
> 
> Sounds like torture to me.


This flashback goes back further than the other one. The Nadia stuff happened later.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I found this out this weekend.

The MAP of the island that we have seen in season one....is the same shape as the tumor that was growing in the mans lungs and seen on the xray that Jack looks at in a previous episode.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

betts4 said:


> The MAP of the island that we have seen in season one....is the same shape as the tumor that was growing in the mans lungs and seen on the xray that Jack looks at in a previous episode.


Reminds me of the old Bob Newhart sketch about the drunk pilot requesting help from the passengers on the flight to Hawaii. "It's [hic] kind of liver shaped, isn't it?"


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## DLiquid (Sep 17, 2001)

What, they're on a Fantastic Voyage and the island is the guy's tumor?


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

I didn't like Sayid's Gulf War torture flashback either, mainly because it didn't make much sense. If he wasn't already a torturer at that point, how did he know how to use the tools effectively? It was pretty clear when he started pulling items out of the kit that he knew what he was doing (and how to make a show out of it). Unless the americans took him aside and spent a week or two training him, I just don't see it. And training him would have meant at least going through the motions of torturing someone themselves, which would defeat the purpose of having Sayid do it in the first place.



jkeegan said:


> Thought it was a bit over the top for Sawyer to crush the frog.


I was just waiting for Sawyer to pass out or something; some of those tree frogs are poisonous, you know...


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

I took these latest flashbacks as a way to show Sayid actually accepting his role as a torturer, and the emotional crisis that comes with acknowledging that "torturing" might be his calling.

edited after seeing that the Nadia stuff came later, as originally thought.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

dcheesi said:


> I didn't like Sayid's Gulf War torture flashback either, mainly because it didn't make much sense. If he wasn't already a torturer at that point, how did he know how to use the tools effectively? It was pretty clear when he started pulling items out of the kit that he knew what he was doing (and how to make a show out of it). Unless the americans took him aside and spent a week or two training him, I just don't see it. And training him would have meant at least going through the motions of torturing someone themselves, which would defeat the purpose of having Sayid do it in the first place.
> 
> I was just waiting for Sawyer to pass out or something; some of those tree frogs are poisonous, you know...


Uh... I don't know about you but if I had a toolbox full of weird tools I am sure I could find a way to cause pain to another human being. I manage to cause pain to myself accidentally with tools... it's not that hard.


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## CarynFromHermosa (Sep 26, 2005)

I thought Charlie looked strange in the last scene. When Sayid was telling him -- "Don't you remember when Claire and the baby were kidnapped..." I thought Charlie looked like he was feeling guilty. Almost like he had been responsible for the kidnapping and Sayid might find out.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

dcheesi said:


> I didn't like Sayid's Gulf War torture flashback either, mainly because it didn't make much sense. If he wasn't already a torturer at that point, how did he know how to use the tools effectively? It was pretty clear when he started pulling items out of the kit that he knew what he was doing (and how to make a show out of it). Unless the americans took him aside and spent a week or two training him, I just don't see it. And training him would have meant at least going through the motions of torturing someone themselves, which would defeat the purpose of having Sayid do it in the first place.


Stick yourself in the middle of a war, show you a video of your neighborhood (possibly your family?) being killed and raped and tortured, appeal to your human side (with the pilot's family), put a tool box in front of you, then have the guy call you names, a traitor, then spit in your face.

You could probably be a quick study in the fine art of torture.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> Uh... I don't know about you but if I had a toolbox full of weird tools I am sure I could find a way to cause pain to another human being. I manage to cause pain to myself accidentally with tools... it's not that hard.


It could work I think:

Sayid: See this nail? I want you to use this hammer to put it in that board.
CO: No, no, you can't make me!
Sayid: Do it or you're dead!
CO: OK, OK. (Hammers nail). Ouch, ouch, ouch, my thumb!
Sayid: Here's another nail!
CO: No, anything but that! You win, I'll tell you what you want to know!


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

I looked up Clancy Brown and I cannot believe he is the voice of Mr. Krabs on Spongebob Squarepants!  I can totally recognize his voice now.


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## mqpickles (Nov 11, 2004)

He does voiceovers for Honda ads too. Very cool voice.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Mike20878 said:


> I looked up Clancy Brown and I cannot believe he is the voice of Mr. Krabs on Spongebob Squarepants!  I can totally recognize his voice now.


He's... in disguise. 


















Greg


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

mqpickles said:


> He does voiceovers for Honda ads too. Very cool voice.


Oh yeah, I've heard him on those too...


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Every time I think of him, I hear his response to Candy in the first Highlander movie..

"Hi! I'm Candy!"

"..... of course you are......."


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## Dennis Wilkinson (Sep 24, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Every time I think of him, I hear his response to Candy in the first Highlander movie.."


Whew! Glad I'm not the only one...


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

Is there really no new thread for the last new episode?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mike20878 said:


> Is there really no new thread for the last new episode?


Of course there is. You didn't think we could all watch a new episode of Lost and then not come here and discuss it did you? 

It can be found here.

Edit: Fixed link.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

Talking to some friends this weekend I need you guys to do a little research for me since you are way more up on the Lost sites.

One of my friends said to pay attention to who sat behind Hurley on the plane. Can anyone find me a screenshot of this? They think it was someone who may have a Dharma connection or a connection to the others.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

mwhip said:


> Talking to some friends this weekend I need you guys to do a little research for me since you are way more up on the Lost sites.
> 
> One of my friends said to pay attention to who sat behind Hurley on the plane. Can anyone find me a screenshot of this? They think it was someone who may have a Dharma connection or a connection to the others.


I don't know who they think it's supposed to be...


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

hefe said:


> I don't know who they think it's supposed to be...


Well they are not as into it as you guys but I think they mean the two guys behind him. They could be throwing stuff against the wall.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

There are more screenshots of Hurley on the plane here: http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=486&page=28&sort=

I don't see anything particularly interesting there, and I don't remember any other shot of him sitting in the plane.


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## mwhip (Jul 22, 2002)

MickeS said:


> There are more screenshots of Hurley on the plane here: http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=486&page=28&sort=
> 
> I don't see anything particularly interesting there, and I don't remember any other shot of him sitting in the plane.


Yeah my friends are stupid. You can't even see the guys behind him.


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## Mike20878 (Jun 8, 2001)

devdogaz said:


> Of course there is. You didn't think we could all watch a new episode of Lost and then not come here and discuss it did you?
> 
> It can be found here.
> 
> Edit: Fixed link.


Why didn't it turn up in a search? I guess the word "lost" was never mentioned in the thread. I think the basic search just searches the the thread and not the title.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Mike20878 said:


> Why didn't it turn up in a search? I guess the word "lost" was never mentioned in the thread. I think the basic search just searches the the thread and not the title.


The search function often does not work well here. Even the advanced search.


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