# Formula 1 : Heads Up



## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Tribune have changed the title of "Formula One Racing" to "Formula 1".

Anyone with an existing wishlist for "Formula One Racing" will need to create a new one, or a season pass.

Last week's programmes were called "Formula One Racing" as per previous years on ITV, why has this changed?


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## ad_jack (Jul 20, 2007)

thank you :up:, would have been well annoyed when i realised tivo hadent recorded it


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## geekspeak (Oct 1, 2002)

Apparently it will be renamed again shortly. Look out for "Farce 1".

Sorry :up:


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Blame pete for telling them to tinker with it.

I knew this would happen.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

steveroe said:


> Last week's programmes were called "Formula One Racing" as per previous years on ITV, why has this changed?


Surely you mean "why did Tribune fail to update the series name to the new official BBC title of Formula 1 last weekend"


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

kitschcamp said:


> Blame pete for telling them to tinker with it.
> 
> I knew this would happen.


If Formula 1 is so important to you then you would be well advised to have keyword Wishlists set for "Formula One" "Formula 1", "Formula1" and "F1" as well as relying on just the channel specific Season Pass. We all know that Tribune can periodically break a simple Season Pass, even where a program does not hop channels.

I note that I have all the above Wishlists and my Tivo started recording the new programs on BBC One without me having to set any new Season Pass for the BBC One programs.

I have documented the various issues formally at:-

www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=381398&page=5


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Surely you mean "why did Tribune fail to update the series name to the new official BBC title of Formula 1 last weekend"


Surely I said what I meant.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

steveroe said:


> Surely I said what I meant.


So you think Tribune should have continued to use an incorrect Series title and incorrect TMSID for another program shown on a different channel with a different presenter and different director and theme tune etc that merely happened to cover similar subject matter?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Changing it part way through a run is what's important and damaging, not whether it's hung on the same TMSID as last year ITV show; who but the most anally retentive could worry about that?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Given the occasional breakage of Tivo SPs and/or de-linkage of individual episodes from an SP any true follower of the sport who owned a Tivo would clearly also have Wishlists in place.

Also this mistake has been corrected after only one episode of a 17 episode series that is likely to be on the BBC for at least five years. That being so a minor error on the first episode does not seem to justify the mistake being carried through to the whole subsequent series.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> So you think Tribune should have continued to use an incorrect Series title and incorrect TMSID for another program shown on a different channel with a different presenter and different director and theme tune etc that merely happened to cover similar subject matter?


Yes. This is the same programme, just showing on a different channel than last year, therefore it should have the same TMSID.

For example, when "Lost" changed from Sky One to Channel 4 the TMSID did not change as it was the same programme - just on a different channel.

Formula 1 is the same programme, whether it's on ITV or BBC1.



Pete77 said:


> Given the occasional breakage of Tivo SPs and/or de-linkage of individual episodes from an SP any true follower of the sport who owned a Tivo would clearly also have Wishlists in place.


I clearly did have a Wishlist in place, for "Formula One Racing" the title that has been used successfully for years.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

steveroe said:


> Yes. This is the same programme, just showing on a different channel than last year, therefore it should have the same TMSID.
> 
> For example, when "Lost" changed from Sky One to Channel 4 the TMSID did not change as it was the same programme - just on a different channel.
> 
> Formula 1 is the same programme, whether it's on ITV or BBC1.


Your logic is completely and utterly flawed here.

Lost is precisely the same program made by the same people just airing on another channel. Whereas Formula 1 is a wholly different program with several different presenters, a different theme tune and numerous other different aspects to its coverage of the F1 motor racing sport (that believe it or not is why it has a different series name). Your logic is like saying that an episode of Air Crash Investigation and an episode of Seconds From Disaster that both cover the same air crash are really precisely the same program and it is perfectly ok to interchange the series names.

I run a module in Tivoweb that compares Tribune series names against those used by Digiguide and reports differences as showing potential errors in the Tribune data. So if "Formula 1" on BBC is allowed to still be called Formula One Racing by Tribune then for ever more I will have several errors a week show by my Digiguide comparison module during the F1 season showing disagreement between the Tribune and the Digiguide series names.

I know of course that some of you hardened Pete bashers just on the look out for any excuse at all you can find to stick one in the eye to Pete but I am confident that on this issue I am very much in the right and that both you and Tribune are entirely in the wrong.


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## steveroe (Oct 29, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Your logic is completely and utterly flawed here.
> Lost is precisely the same program made by the same people just airing on another channel. Whereas Formula 1 is a wholly different program with several different presenters, a different theme tune and numerous other different aspects to its coverage of the F1 motor racing sport (that believe it or not is why it has a different series name).


If a programme changes presenters or theme tune it should get a new TMSID?



Pete77 said:


> Your logic is like saying that an episode of Air Crash Investigation and an episode of Seconds From Disaster that both cover the same air crash are really precisely the same program and it is perfectly ok to interchange the series names.


If ITV and the BBC both had coverage, within the same season, then I would expect the TMSIDs to be different, however as there is only one broadcaster covering the sport each year it is reasonable to expect the TMSID to move with the broadcaster.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

It really doesn't matter a damn if the TMSID is the same or different - as SPs only work per channel there is no possibility of any confusion.

However if you set an SP for the first GP of the year, it will now be broken. This is a A Bad Thing.

If the problem was just the name, then that could have been changed without changing the TMSOD.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> It really doesn't matter a damn if the TMSID is the same or different - as SPs only work per channel there is no possibility of any confusion.


Agreed so retaining the name Formula One Racing would not have helped at all with the continuation of the SP called Formula One Racing on ITV over to BBC One. Hence renaming the program correctly to Formula 1 was clearly the obvious thing to do.



> However if you set an SP for the first GP of the year, it will now be broken. This is a A Bad Thing.


Not much more than having to set up a new SP on BBC One to begin with was. The fact that the SP was misnamed as Formula One Racing would have been likely to cause most Tivo users to be wary about it and check that programs were still due to record.



> If the problem was just the name, then that could have been changed without changing the TMSOD.


Agreed. So there should be no issue at all with changing the Series name to the correct name of Formula 1.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

steveroe said:


> If a programme changes presenters or theme tune it should get a new TMSID?


Not if it is still made by the same production company and still the same program from the same controlling minds.



> If ITV and the BBC both had coverage, within the same season, then I would expect the TMSIDs to be different, however as there is only one broadcaster covering the sport each year it is reasonable to expect the TMSID to move with the broadcaster.


No I don't agree as this is not a program made by the same production company or controlling minds but a completely different program covering the same subject matter. It is like a film of a book that is remade by another director and cast. That is not the same film as the original and hence it should not have the same TMSID as the original.


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## deshepherd (Nov 30, 2000)

Meanwhile, as far as I could see, we now have "Formula 1" live coverage and "Formula One Racing" highlights. So its now self-inconsistent.

Personally I don't care what its called or what justification is used for its name ... however, one of my main arguments on why TiVo is better than other PVRs has always been along the lines that "I set a SP for F1 and Tour de France 7 years ago and I know it will get recorded each year" ... sadly the TdF part got broken last year when "Tour de France" became "Cycling". F1 only failed to fail this year since I'd had to reset all SPs over the winter due to DB corruption!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

deshepherd said:


> Personally I don't care what its called or what justification is used for its name ... however, one of my main arguments on why TiVo is better than other PVRs has always been along the lines that "I set a SP for F1 and Tour de France 7 years ago and I know it will get recorded each year" ... sadly the TdF part got broken last year when "Tour de France" became "Cycling".
> 
> F1 only failed to fail this year since I'd had to reset all SPs over the winter due to DB corruption!


No wrong. Your Tivo failed to achieved this for 2009 because the program was now on another channel and Season Passes do not work on any other channel than the one they were created for. You can View Upcoming Episodes on other channels than the one the SP is for but they will not be recorded by the SP.

So Tribune were going to leave you two Season Passes in your database called Formula one Racing. One would be the ITV one and one the BBC One series and in fact yet another the BBC Three series (if you want to record the Highlights program) and you wouldn't have known which was which.

The only way to have avoided this problem would have been some Wishlists for F1 and Formula 1 and Formula One as I had and then the program would still have carried on recording in 2009 without any end user intervention.


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## pauljs (Feb 11, 2001)

Another option might be to set up wishlists for GRAND PRIX, F1 and FORMULA ONE.

If it's any consolation my Sky HD managed to start the recording then after the EPG was updated to allow for the overrun during the transmission. It now won't play with error "FAILED REC, TECHNICAL FAULT-9"


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

pauljs said:


> Another option might be to set up wishlists for GRAND PRIX, F1 and FORMULA ONE.


The more the merrier. After all you can still only get one recording as a result although you might need to also install Mike's Blocklist hack to stop stuff that is not an F1 GP that matches these Wishlists from recording repeatedly. I am also asking Mike if he can uprate his Blocklist to block recordings that have Qualifying or Highlights in the description as a Keyword Wishlist match.

Sadly the BBC have not reverted to the classic program name of "Grand Prix" for this year's Formula 1 coverage and they are also horribly messing around with "The Chain" by adding engine sounds and due to their opening sequence before The Chain (different again for this race) that is clearly only aimed at spotty 15 year olds.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Not much more than having to set up a new SP on BBC One to begin with was.


The point is people will have thought they had set up a SP and all GPs would be recorded, and will switch the telly on to find no Malaysian GP in Now Playing.

That is the cardinal sin of guide data fiddling, which must be avoided at all costs.

Arsing around over a spare word in the title is definitely not worth it.



> The fact that the SP was misnamed as Formula One Racing would have been likely to cause most Tivo users to be wary about it and check that programs were still due to record.


I think you overestimate the degree of guide data obsession of normal people.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> The point is people will have thought they had set up a SP and all GPs would be recorded, and will switch the telly on to find no Malaysian GP in Now Playing.
> 
> That is the cardinal sin of guide data fiddling, which must be avoided at all costs.


But changing the series name to Formula 1 would not have broken the SP since it is reliant on the TMSID and this presumably would not have changed.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

If they'd done it that way, but it seems they didn't.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> If they'd done it that way, but it seems they didn't.


Don't Tribune have to work to a Service Level Agreement with Tivo then in terms of how they supply data?


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Que?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Que?


SLA. I'm sure a commercial person like yourself if more than famililar with such documents.


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## ad_jack (Jul 20, 2007)

i can confirm that the name change didn't break the season pass. i went to delete formula one racing from my season pass manager to find that formula 1 was already there!


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

Pete77 said:


> If Formula 1 is so important to you then you would be well advised to have keyword Wishlists set for "Formula One" "Formula 1", "Formula1" and "F1" as well as relying on just the channel specific Season Pass. We all know that Tribune can periodically break a simple Season Pass, even where a program does not hop channels.


They broke it at _*your*_ request.

I've had wishlists set up for years, the downside it constant wishing to record preview programs off Motors and that awful Discovery program constantly. Hence it's important that season passes work.

Did I, or did I not, say to you that asking Tribune to fiddle with the season passes to suit your personal whim was asking for trouble?

I told you this would happen. We will now have months of uncertainty of season passes around F1. Congrats. Really well done. I hope you're happy about it. See TCM's post about cardinal rules, and take it on board.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> SLA. I'm sure a commercial person like yourself if more than famililar with such documents.


Less familiar about what it had to do with anything we were talking about.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Is it broken or isn't it? Conflicting postings above.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

TCM2007 said:


> Is it broken or isn't it? Conflicting postings above.


The BBC One "Formula One Racing" SP is now apparently renamed as Formula 1 and still working according to an above post from an individual without an axe to grind. I can't be quite sure myself as I deleted my old ITV Formula One Racing SP and currently only have wishlists and have not set up a BBC One or BBC Three "Formula 1" SP.

I suspect those with an axe to grind are only looking for any opportunity they can find to engage in a spot of Pete bashing and are not really too interested in the actual facts.

The situation will only be fully clear when Tribune also rename the SP for BBC Three to "Formula 1". At the end of the day Tribune and not I made the errors so any complaints on the matter should be directed to Tribune and Tivo and not myself for having them rectified.


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## RichardJH (Oct 7, 2002)

Is It Petes Fault ???

Just checking for the next F1 and as expected to early for BBC1 listings on Tivo but the BBC5LX listings make for interesting reading. The teams are at the Chinese Grand Prix Thurs and Saturday but at the Bahrain practice on the Friday.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

RichardJH said:


> Is It Petes Fault ???


Probably best we just assume it is. Will save time in the long-run


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

RichardJH said:


> Is It Petes Fault ???
> 
> Just checking for the next F1 and as expected to early for BBC1 listings on Tivo but the BBC5LX listings make for interesting reading. The teams are at the Chinese Grand Prix Thurs and Saturday but at the Bahrain practice on the Friday.


That is exactly how the official BBC5LX listings were provided.


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## BrianHughes (Jan 21, 2001)

RichardJH said:


> Is It Petes Fault ???
> 
> Just checking for the next F1 and as expected to early for BBC1 listings on Tivo but the BBC5LX listings make for interesting reading. The teams are at the Chinese Grand Prix Thurs and Saturday but at the Bahrain practice on the Friday.


They're going to be a bit annoyed when they find out Pete's got them flying all over the place


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## tonywalk (Sep 10, 2002)

Set a season pass for the F1 coverage as soon as the proggie was in the guide prior to the season starting.

Both Australian and Malaysian GPs have recorded without needing tweaks.

Agree with Pete that the name on Tivo (Tribune) should be identical to what the BBC are calling the programme when they release the guide data, which I presume was "Formula 1".


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

tonywalk said:


> Agree with Pete that the name on Tivo (Tribune) should be identical to what the BBC are calling the programme when they release the guide data, which I presume was "Formula 1".


Many thanks for your support Tony.:up:

An existing Series name can definitely be altered on the same TMSID without altering or disconnecting a previously set SP for that TMSID on that channel.

This happens all the time for the Rally series on British Eurosport with the series name being constantly changed to the latest Rally and the names of any Rally programs you have in Now Playing also getting changed when that happens.

The bottom line is that the Foimula One Racing SP from ITV1 would not work on BBC One. Tribune then screwed up by calling the new BBC One series Formula One Racing but have now rectified it on BBC One by changing it to Formula 1 and will presumably do so on BBC Three in due course. Changing the name of the TMSID for the program on BBC One and BBC Three will not affect or stop any SP that was created when the program was wrongly named Formula One Racing from continuing to record. That would only happen if Tribune decided to create a new TMSID for Formula 1 instead of renaming their Formula One Racing items on BBC One and BBC Three to Formula 1.


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## OzSat (Feb 15, 2001)

Pete is correct (how can I say such a thing) - but the SP works on the id and not the displayed title.

They could call it "what's the point of a race when the result gets changed days later" - but it will still record it.

The only problem is for those who set up a wish list using a different channels title.

Wishlists work best if you enter all possible variations.


Race 1 was wrong as they used the same (ITV) id but didn't change the title - this as fixed later.

The TiVo title should always match the official listings - otherwise you could end up searching for the official title (from RT etc) and not finding it on TiVo.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ozsat said:


> Pete is correct (how can I say such a thing)


Presumably because a forum moderator is always scrupulously fair and impartial.



> Race 1 was wrong as they used the same (ITV) id but didn't change the title - this as fixed later.
> 
> The TiVo title should always match the official listings - otherwise you could end up searching for the official title (from RT etc) and not finding it on TiVo.


It is nice to see it confirmed officially that Tribune messed up here and that all I was trying to do was to get them to fulfil their contractual to Tivo to provide accurate guide data.


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