# Battlestar Galactica 1/13/06 S2E12 Resurrection Ship Part 2



## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

I haven't seen it yet but I wanted to started the OFF. Thread. What do I win?


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

"Anything in this 3 inches right here, that includes the chiclets, but not the erasers"


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

warrenevans said:


> I haven't seen it yet but I wanted to started the OFF. Thread. What do I win?


bragging rights.  
(I was just about the create this thread, but was doing the SG-1 and Atlantis ones first).

That was somewhat unexpected. I sort of guessed that both assassination teams would back down, but I almost expected it to be after they received their orders. (Although imagine how bad Starbuck would feel if, having passed up the chance to shoot Admiral Cain the Admiral ordered the assassination of Commander Adama.)

The fight was very nice to look at, although the long sequences with Apollo floating in that pool got old. (And shouldn't people who fight in space suits have some emergency patches to seal up any small holes?)

Admiral Adama. Interesting. I guess they plan on hanging on to Pegasus for a while. Of course I imagine they planned on hanging on to the Blackbird for a while as well, but that didn't turn out so well.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

Well I wacthed the 1st minutes of it. Apolllo foalting in space/water. Looks Good. I will be back to read the thread tomorrow night and I have the pod cast download now

Link to podcast.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/212/bsg_ep212_FULL.mp3


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

If anyone is interested, there was a LOT of dialog written for this episode, that was edited out after the closed captioning was done. Very interesting to consider how this dialog would have changed the mood of some scenes.

All in all, I think they did good. The silence was spookier.


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## Dmtalon (Dec 28, 2003)

Another wonderful episode for a wonderful series!!! Nice twist too :up: :up:


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## jstr (Sep 25, 2005)

Yeah, loved the way they went silent during those battle scenes. What a powerful way to do a battle scene with huge ships being blown to bits, but with complete silence as we watch.


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## jstr (Sep 25, 2005)

So where did Dr. Baltar hide Six?


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## xtopher_66 (Jan 8, 2004)

jstr said:


> So where did Dr. Baltar hide Six?


In his head? 

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

"Frak you."
"You're not my type."

My GODS, what a great episode. The drama was so perfect throughout the hour, but it was particularly so in the scene with Adama and CapricaBoomer. It actually made me stop for a second and humanize the Cylons... and considering all the things we've seen the Cylons do, that's some pretty incredible work. To say nothing of Baltar playing on the PegasusSix in order to deal with the Six in his head... *that* was great. 

Never let it be said that BSG takes the easy way out of anything. Every victory came at a drastic cost, every moment of happiness came at someone else's downfall (pun not intended), and no act of conscience comes without a counterweighted flaw. 

Damn. I wanna go watch it again.


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## mjh (Dec 19, 2002)

What a great episode. I was so nervous leading up to the planned executions, that I was literally shaking in my seat. That's not happened with a TV show before.


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## xtopher_66 (Jan 8, 2004)

Skittles said:


> My GODS, what a great episode. The drama was so perfect throughout the hour...


Agreed, the way these last two episodes were executed was nearly flawless.

Well worth the wait.


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## lord-dogbert (Jan 31, 2005)

OMG...

Still coming down from that episode, perfect execution, in more than one way.

Would've liked to seen more combat scenes however I can't really complain.

Guess that we'll have to change the title to Battlestar's.


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Adama and Roslin... sitting in a tree...

I loved how they cut straight to the chase of the battle scene and didn't even bother with them approaching. 2 base stars and a tone of fighters and they didn't even stand a chance against the combined might of 2 battlestars.

Amazing episode. I couldn't think of a better way to handle the situation.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Surprised no one mentioned that Adama had a talk with "his" Cylon and then the Cylon on the Pegasus did what he wanted to be done. With the Cylon doing the dirty deed there are no internal problems that would have occurred had Starbuck done the assasination.

Then again, maybe it was just a coincidence.


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## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

First of all, I never liked that plot device where the later, more dramatic scenes are shown first, and then we get the see what happened before that. I think directors used them because they don't have enough materials to fill the time.

Secondly, if the humans didn't get any intel on any another human-like Cylons, then I think it's really bad writing. I know it's probably for dramatic effects, so we can be surprised later when other Cylons are revealed, but to have the Ressurrection Ship there and not get anything out of it is just very lame.

So...any guesses on what happens to the Pegasus? They can't have both battlestars for the whole season? The show is called BSG, not BSG&P.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Whew...just watched the earlier ep and this one...very nice wrap up...maybe now they can take a break and do some exploring and stuff...go on some arcs away from the main one... 

not that I'm bored with the main arc! 

the kiss was a little weird...strange how quickly they've become best friends...


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

Kinda disappointed in this episode, given last episode. I think it was because of the Lee in the water scenes.

Couple of notes:
Both Adama and Cain backed down from the assination order, but Starbuck was only aware of Adama backing down. From the speech at the end, I think she was disappointed that Adama backed down. Wonder how that will play out.
Lee has a suicide wish.
So, how does Baltar get Gina off the ship? He can't fly a raptor, can he?
How many people know that Pegasus left civilians to die? I would think pilots would start talking to each other (the deck crew seem to know, at least)


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

I was sort of disappointed with this episode. I didn't feel any tension concerning the battle against the cylons. Everybody was acting like the cylon battle was easy, and making plans (to kill one another) after it was over.

So no tension with the cylons. And then Cain and Adama decide to be friends after 1 hour and 45 minutes of build up for a fight between them. I'm all for surprises in drama, but for me at least, the surprises in this episode fell flat. Adama pulling out at the last moment is possible, but his little talk with Boomer makes no sense as the reason. So cylons attacked because humans didn't deserve to survive. Well, that begs the question why not? And why would Cain not go through with her plan? Given everything we were told about her, why would she do that? 

Why are they attacking the cylons in the first place? Unless the attack was easy, it seems like way too much risk for not much reward. And where was the rest of the fleet? Defenseless I assume? 

I don't need everything to make sense. If something needs to be true for an episode to work, then so be it. But each episode seems to make less sense than the last. I feel like the episodes are getting further and further from what I liked in the mini-series.


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## jafa (Jan 27, 2002)

WOW! Incredible

Just WOW!


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

jwreiner said:


> I was sort of disappointed with this episode.


Every one of your points is valid and I enjoyed reading your post.

However, you are wrong. It's a forest for the trees thing. Episode worked - one of the best. Yes some of the parts were shoehorned to fit, but that's how you make great sausauge, to mix a mixed metaphor.

Though I totally accepted the flaws in the context of the overall effectiveness of the episode, what did give me pause was what you lead with, the de-emphasis of the battle, making it almost a throwaway. I suspect the producers struggled with that mightily. It reminded me very much of the major Star Fleet battle with the Borg in Star Trek Next Gen Best of Both Worlds part one. I can only say that it was an unsolvable problem, BG handled it well, much better than STNG, there was a true sense of the epicness of the battle (great decision to kill the dialog) but yes it paled in comparison to the human drama because that's what had to happen. But that drama would not have had the stature without the monumental battle context. In an ideal world of art maybe this episode should have been a 900 page novel or a six hour miniseries. Maybe. Or maybe they did it exactly right.

The producers grasp of this universe/story, and their ability to tell the epic tale with complete authority has reached what seems to be near perfection. We're riding a crest that I hope will last for awhile. I haven't had a chance to watch TV recently so when I looked at my Tivo library tonight I had the choices of a new Monk, a new Veronica Mars, a new Lost and a whole bunch of hi-def movies. I picked BG because it's the best, and I enjoyed every moment.


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

jfjellstad said:


> Both Adama and Cain backed down from the assination order, but Starbuck was only aware of Adama backing down. From the speech at the end, I think she was disappointed that Adama backed down. Wonder how that will play out.


I took it quite the opposite actually. I don't think she is at all disappointed that Adama backed down. She said "I think we were safer with her then we are without her." I think the fact that he asked her to kill Cain will actually be the cause of problems in the future. She also said in her speech that the Pegasus was all alone, which leads me to believe she doesn't know that Cain killed civilians to get some of them to join the Pegasus crew, and she probably doesn't know that Cain stripped the ships she found of their supplies, weapons and jump drives and then abandoned them to die at the hands of the Cylons.

The big question I think now is do they know how involved Baltar was with the release of the Pegasus 6? Will this be the start of seeing Baltar on a Cylon Base Star as in the old show?


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## Charon2 (Nov 1, 2001)

jwreiner said:


> And then Cain and Adama decide to be friends after 1 hour and 45 minutes of build up for a fight between them.


I didn't see anything to suggest they were friends at all. They backed down from the assassination orders, but that is it. I doubt their next move was to have tea and crumpets with one another.



jwreiner said:


> Why are they attacking the cylons in the first place? Unless the attack was easy, it seems like way too much risk for not much reward. And where was the rest of the fleet? Defenseless I assume?


I thought they established this fairly well in the last episode. They knew there were big risks, but the reward was way too high not to do the battle. Destroying the Resurrection Ship would likely slow the Cylon attacks down greatly since they would now be truly mortal. As it stood before the Resurrection Ship was destroyed, death meant nothing to them. They just downloaded to another body and life went on. Now, with the Cylon homeworld so far away, they can't just download to a new body, they will truly die. There is a cost to death now for the Cylons that wasn't there before. Of course we have to wonder how long until they get another Resurrection ship trailing the fleet.
As for the rest of the fleet they said they would jump ahead, then use a couple civilian ships as a decoy to draw the Cylons in. The idea was to make the ships that stayed behind act like they had troubles with their jump engines. I can't recall if the BSG and Pegasus hid at that point or not, but they come in at some point and start attacking the Base Stars now that the raiders have been drawn off leaving them vulnerable. With the Base Stars no longer a big threat, that freed up the fighters to attack the Resurrection Ship.
Next episode we should see the count of survivors and see just how many people they lost, since they do keep track of the survivor count from week to week.

As to complaints that they didn't get more reconnaissance. I don't know that we need it. I wasn't under the impression that it was Starbuck who focused in on seeing 6 in the ship, but rather Cain from the photos she had. They may have good enough photos already. We may not find out for an episode or few what information they have there.


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## GTO40 (Jul 25, 2005)

Absolutely the best episode yet, IMHO. The producers apparently know World War II history very well, taking a page directly out the battle of Midway. A Navy or Marine pilot was shotdown near the Japanese Fleet and witnessed the entire battle from a raft. Apollo being that pilot witnessing the battle firsthand. 

And Trica (Starbuck), a great performance. The uncertainty of her walk, the expression on her face, the stare into Admiral Ro's face (knowing what she was asked to do), then the expression of her relief once countermanded. 

How fitting - the Cylons not only look like " us " , but they act like " us ". The duality of Sharon sharing why the Cylons hate " us ", only to have " Six " act so " human " by being so revengeful. How fitting the Cylons see themselves above their parents, only to be a chip off the old block after all.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

first off I really loved this one!! One thing I would have liked to see is Gina (PegSix) get killed then wake up on another REsurrection ship. You know like there where two of them following. I think it would have been cool.


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

Am I the only one who thinks Apollo is very whiny for someone who never gets punished for going behind his commander's back?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

I was expecting Adm Caine to wake up in another body at the end.

I really liked this episode, but... I initially thought the "Previously On" recap went on way too long, then I saw why later on. They spent a lot of time explaining the plan of the battle in the recap. I thought they took some serious shortcuts when we finally got into the battle. There was a cut and all of a sudden we were in the middle of it. There was no suspense as we waited to see if they would take the bait. They didn't show that part of the plan in action at all, and that was diappointing to me. The shots of Lee witnessing the battle were pretty cool, though.

I thought Caine backing down from the asassination attempt was completely out of character. Obviously both teams were relieved when their individual code words were not spoken. As other have mentioned, it was kind of a letdown after the 45 minutes of suspense. It also disturbed me that we never saw Caine's body. I don't know why. 

Others touched on this, but I also found it intriguing that Adama spoke to sharon, and then Gina carried out his original plan, right down to shooting Caine in the head. Very cool.

Off to watch it again!


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## ogden2k (Jun 5, 2004)

I really like the integration of history into this episode. Peagasus and BSG really have some strong firing power. I thought that the ships are shields?


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

GTO40 said:


> Absolutely the best episode yet, IMHO. The producers apparently know World War II history very well, taking a page directly out the battle of Midway. A Navy or Marine pilot was shotdown near the Japanese Fleet and witnessed the entire battle from a raft. Apollo being that pilot witnessing the battle firsthand.


I almost posted the same observation, but didn't because it sounded too geeky


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Yeah, the two battlestars seemed to have no trouble taking out two basestars. They didn't even appear to suffer serious damage, and there wasn't any damage-control craziness at the end of the fight. Seemed a little too easy, after the problems Galactica has had going up against basestars before. I suppose Pegasus could just be _a lot_ more powerful, but still...

As for Starbuck's speech, and the "alone" bit: do we know that the civilian ships were with Pegasus from the beginning? If Pegasus was truly alone for a while, and already running low on supplies when they stumbled upon the civilians, it could explain (not excuse) Caine's decision to strip the ships.

BTW, anyone else almost feel sorry for Caine when she finally got it?


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

dcheesi said:


> Yeah, the two battlestars seemed to have no trouble taking out two basestars. They didn't even appear to suffer serious damage, and there wasn't any damage-control craziness at the end of the fight. Seemed a little too easy, after the problems Galactica has had going up against basestars before.


The key to the plan seemed to be getting the raiders out of the way. Apparently the point defense on the Battlestars can deal with the BaseStar missile salvos if they don't have to keep the gnats off their backs. Or that's how I read Starbuck's briefing, anyway.


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## Maximus67 (Mar 22, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> BTW, anyone else almost feel sorry for Caine when she finally got it?


Nope.

In fact, I sort of enjoyed watching her swallow hard, right before the trigger got pulled.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

I was hoping for this scene:

Adm. Cain: Frak you!
Gina: Frak me??? No- Frak you!! <Blam>


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## jradford (Dec 28, 2004)

I loved Cain's XO and Starbuck passing in the hall:

"Good hunting."
"You, too."

(or something along those lines)

Great double-meaning for the viewers.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

what troubled me is why neither Adama nor Caine expect the other's assassination attempt...I know I would've expected it...but they both just went along as they were the only one trying to kill the other...very out of character for both...


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Anubys said:


> what troubled me is why neither Adama nor Caine expect the other's assassination attempt...I know I would've expected it...but they both just went along as they were the only one trying to kill the other...very out of character for both...


I think Caine suspected the attack. I got the impression she knew exactly why Starbuck was there and was aware that the attack was called off. You usually don't get that high in the military without having an ability to read people. It didn't take a rocket scientist to take one look at Starbuck to see that something was up. It was all in her face, especially her eyes. The cockiness was gone and it was replaced by something else, maybe fear or at least apprehension.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

they really should carry duck tape in there flight suits. I am kinda sad to see the blackbird go. I guess cause I have seen FOTP like 15 times. I wonder if HeadSix is gone now.

I have a question about Gina. Dose she have the downloads from when Six died on Caprica? Or can the Cylons get "updates" from dead clyons while they are alive?

My wife was saying NO NO during the whole Lee going under water thing. I guess she didn't Watch the previews as much as I did.

What will happen to Starbuck? Will both her and Lee get moved back to Galacitca or wil she stay on Peg. to be the CAG


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

warrenevans said:


> they really should carry duck tape in there flight suits. I am kinda sad to see the blackbird go. I guess cause I have seen FOTP like 15 times. I wonder if HeadSix is gone now.
> 
> I have a question about Gina. Dose she have the downloads from when Six died on Caprica? Or can the Cylons get "updates" from dead clyons while they are alive?
> 
> ...


I'm guessing Starbuck will be the Pegasus CAG and Apollo will be the CAG on the Galactica... or vice verse.


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> I think Caine suspected the attack. I got the impression she knew exactly why Starbuck was there and was aware that the attack was called off. You usually don't get that high in the military without having an ability to read people. It didn't take a rocket scientist to take one look at Starbuck to see that something was up. It was all in her face, especially her eyes. The cockiness was gone and it was replaced by something else, maybe fear or at least apprehension.


But Adama didn't seem to know what was going on with the XO and the additional security people. Even though he and the president agreed that Caine would try to take him out.

I think the storyline had worked much better if Caine gave the order, but the XO either refused or the plot failed. Both backing off seemed weak given the build up.


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## TheSlyBear (Dec 26, 2002)

dcheesi said:


> BTW, anyone else almost feel sorry for Caine when she finally got it?


Surprisingly, almost.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

warrenevans said:


> they really should carry duck tape in there flight suits.


Duck tape? 



Caine's XO refusing to kill Adama would have really advanced his character...I thought him helping the chief and Helo was a sign that he will be around for some time...doing the story the way it unfolded tells me that he will not be around long (and the Pegasus with him)...


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

> *BTW, anyone else almost feel sorry for Caine when she finally got it?*


I didn't as much feel sorry for her as I was sad to see the character go. I love the tension she brought to the show, but realize she couldn't stay.

Redux brought up the battle, contrasting it to the way the Battle of Wolf 359 was portrayed on ST:TNG. Well I saw another Trek link in this 2 parter. How about comparing Ensign Ro, er, Admiral Caine with Captain Ransom of the U.S.S. Equinox? Ransom is from the ST:VOY 2 parter "Equinox."

Caine & Ransom: Both were flawed. Both sacrificed their "evolved" Colonial Fleet/Starfleet morals when their backs were against the wall and their very survival was at stake. Both were backed by loyal but trusting, broken officers. And both met rather unfortunate ends.

*Edit to add:*
Damn, the more I think about it the more I realize the concept of Equinox may have been borrowed from this story. The whole "a ship we thought was alone really isn't .. the captain on the Other ship has some ethical issues .. come together to fight a common enemy .. then fight each other" thing. Hmmm.

You can even compare the Captain Adama floating on water fantasy world to Captain Ransom's beach scene fantasy world. Whaddatheysay about everything has happened once; Everything will happen again?

My gods, I love BSG (and Trek).


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I like the episode but very very disapointed in the battle. I was hoping to finally get an epic battle on this show. Intead we get to see some fighting in the distance. I wanted to hear adama bark out orders and watch them excuted. I wanted to see up close the point blank battle between the basestars and battlestars. I also hate that they took the cowardly way out on caine. I wanted to see one of the good guys do something bad.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

vikingguy said:


> I like the episode but very very disapointed in the battle. I was hoping to finally get an epic battle on this show. Intead we get to see some fighting in the distance. I wanted to hear adama bark out orders and watch them excuted. I wanted to see up close the point blank battle between the basestars and battlestars.


Exactly what I felt for a moment. But I think the distant view of the battle was, in itself, a remarkably effective alternative perspective, detached and almost clinical in its disinterest, yet epic at the same time, and it also allowed the "other" story to take center stage. A "mixture" of cliche battletalk/closeups/flashier effects/intensity with the main plot would have been OK, maybe even more exciting, but as the producers actually decided to put these elements together I think this it's one of the best hours of episodic television I've ever experienced.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

Redux said:


> Exactly what I felt for a moment. But I think the distant view of the battle was, in itself, a remarkably effective alternative perspective, detached and almost clinical in its disinterest, yet epic at the same time, and it also allowed the "other" story to take center stage. A "mixture" of cliche battletalk/closeups/flashier effects/intensity with the main plot would have been OK, maybe even more exciting, but as the producers actually decided to put these elements together I think this it's one of the best hours of episodic television I've ever experienced.


I could agree with that if the show had a lot of battles like DS9. The show does the battles so rarely I thought it was the perfect chance for that epic battle. I was hoping for something on the scale of like when the dominion took control of DS9 or most of the B5 major engagements. You had 2 basestars and 2 battlestars going toe to toe it should be been a epic halacious battle.


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## Mike Farrington (Nov 16, 2000)

vikingguy said:


> I could agree with that if the show had a lot of battles like DS9. The show does the battles so rarely I thought it was the perfect chance for that epic battle. I was hoping for something on the scale of like when the dominion took control of DS9 or most of the B5 major engagements. You had 2 basestars and 2 battlestars going toe to toe it should be been a epic halacious battle.


I bet they blew a decent portion of their digital f/x budget on the battle we did see. Man that was some beautiful work.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

I also think the distance made the battle look way way to easy. For 2 season we hear how bad ass the cylons are that was smashed in this one episode. I just wish they would of showed the whole battle from begining to end with the after math. That is why I loved the big B5 battles there was a begining middle and end of each battle. You got up close and personal and got to see the tatics and how they turned the battle. The writers of the show should watch no retreat,no surender and severed dreams to see how a battle sequence should go.

Also how was gina able to easily escape a battle ship with 1000s of solders?

I like the show but I was expecting way more in the first major engagement of the series. The show has hyped up this battle for 4 months over a few episodes and that is all we got. The battlestars whipping the ass of the basestars with ease. Hell the battle was so easy that caine was able to leave the bridge almost right after the battle I would assume she would only leave if the ship had very minor damage.


I doubt they blew that much of the budget considering this battle was not as big and long as the one that ended star gate atlantis season 1 because I would bet battle star has a much bigger budget.


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

I don't know what to say but wow to this show and this episode. First I'd just like to say the battle was NEVER meant to be the focus of this two part episode. It was always about the ships and it's crews. They both learned to survive in two very different ways and yet both learned the same lessons. 

Now in terms of the strength of the battlestars against baseships and other cylon ships. I'd like to point out that surprise in war is a VERY big factor and in there writing they take this into account. The crews of both these ships have also learned tactics that are effective against the cylons otherwise they would be dead by now. They effectively set up a scenario where they could use there strengths against the cylons this time and not the other way around. They may have not spent the entire show explaining this, but it's what happened. 

I'm sure many of you know that this was originally inspired by the original BSG episodes where they came across another battlestar and that captain wanted to attack a cylon fleet but Adoma wouldn't do it because it meant putting the civilian fleet at risk.I also don't see a problem with a second battlestar in this show. BSG is and always will be the center of the show but this show isn't about one ship it's about a fleet of human ships trying to find earth. I also like the fact that Pegasus is the original BSG design from the originally show. When I first saw the quality of the sets for Pegasus I knew it would be around for awhile. They have also spent a fair amount of time developing new characters on the new ship. It should provide a good amount of new material for the show. 

It's amazing to me how well they develop story lines in this show. There always seems to be a story arch and I love that. To many scifi shows think you have to make a hour long show but at the end of the show all the characters must end up in the same place they began. BSG just doesn't do this and I love that. It lets them develop little things over time that ends up adding allot of drama to a situation. You have Laura and Adoma for example becoming closer and relying on each other to shoulder this enormous burden that they must carry. They have developed deep and powerful feelings because of this. Not the soap opera kind but one of "How in the hell can I live with out this person in my live". Now were about to have a importune moment in the next episode about the health of her versus the health of the fleet and we all know that this is going to rip this guys heart out. 

I'd also like to say didn't anybody else pause last week when they previewed the next week? When the captain had the frak you line I paused it when I saw the bruise on the wrist of the person holding the gone. I then knew right then it was the cylon.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

generalpatton71 said:


> I don't know what to say but wow to this show and this episode. First I'd just like to say the battle was NEVER meant to be the focus of this two part episode. It was always about the ships and it's crews. They both learned to survive in two very different ways and yet both learned the same lessons.


If the battle was not the main part they should of not talked about it so much. Also babylon 5 had more drama and character growth than BSG yet managed to have effective massive battles.



generalpatton71 said:


> I'm sure many of you know that this was originally inspired by the original BSG episodes where they came across another battlestar and that captain wanted to attack a cylon fleet but Adoma wouldn't do it because it meant putting the civilian fleet at risk.I also don't see a problem with a second battlestar in this show. BSG is and always will be the center of the show but this show isn't about one ship it's about a fleet of human ships trying to find earth. I also like the fact that Pegasus is the original BSG design from the originally show. When I first saw the quality of the sets for Pegasus I knew it would be around for awhile. They have also spent a fair amount of time developing new characters on the new ship. It should provide a good amount of new material for the show.


If the show is not about a fleet finding earth then why did they waste the whole first season trying to find directions to earth the profacy and all that. The show is focused on the ship and crew they rarely show other ships crews and civilians. I hope the pegasus leaves soon so we can get back on track were the show was before cain and the evil crew showed up. If the pegasus is around there is no fear it would take the cyclons sending 3 or more baseships to give them a real fight. Since it has been established the 2 battlestars can easily kick the crap out of 2 basestars.



generalpatton71 said:


> It's amazing to me how well they develop story lines in this show. There always seems to be a story arch and I love that. To many scifi shows think you have to make a hour long show but at the end of the show all the characters must end up in the same place they began. BSG just doesn't do this and I love that. It lets them develop little things over time that ends up adding allot of drama to a situation. You have Laura and Adoma for example becoming closer and relying on each other to shoulder this enormous burden that they must carry. They have developed deep and powerful feelings because of this. Not the soap opera kind but one of "How in the hell can I live with out this person in my live". Now were about to have a importune moment in the next episode about the health of her versus the health of the fleet and we all know that this is going to rip this guys heart out.


I guess you never watched babylon 5 then because that show also had a 5 year story arch that was freaking awesome.



generalpatton71 said:


> Now in terms of the strength of the battlestars against baseships and other cylon ships. I'd like to point out that surprise in war is a VERY big factor and in there writing they take this into account. The crews of both these ships have also learned tactics that are effective against the cylons otherwise they would be dead by now. They effectively set up a scenario where they could use there strengths against the cylons this time and not the other way around. They may have not spent the entire show explaining this, but it's what happened.


When did the galatica engage a basestar directly in close combat? They have been on the defensive jumping when ever the cyclons showed up and have learned no super stratagys. Hell if they had this super stratagy the should turn around and go kick the cylons out of thier worlds. They did not explain anything this episode that was a mistake and weak writing. Also in RS1 they talked about taking out the resurections FTL drive before the attack. In this episode the battle was well on the way before they took out the FLT drive. If the ship was so important why did it not jump the second the battlestars showed up? When was the black bird outfitted with weapons anyway?

I like the show but I have been waiting for this episode for months and months and it was very weak. They promised an epic battle to destroy the most important ship in the galaxy instead we got a few distant shots and a cyclon killing cain.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

jstr said:


> Yeah, loved the way they went silent during those battle scenes. What a powerful way to do a battle scene with huge ships being blown to bits, but with complete silence as we watch.


Which as I understand would be more accurate. Sound only travels in atmosphere so an explosion in space would probably be silent.

btw, this is my 100th post accorcding to the bb.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

ccooperev said:


> btw, this is my 100th post accorcding to the bb.


Newbie.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

dcheesi said:


> BTW, anyone else almost feel sorry for Caine when she finally got it?


Well, hate to admit it but... NO! Admiral "RO" has got to Go!

Oh, and was that a flinch I detected on Caine's face when confronted by Peg/Gina6?

Now the teasers for next weeks episode looks pretty chilling. Wonder if the Fundies will get all up in arms about it.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

What if the cylons intentionally allowed the BSG fleet to destroy these assets?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

What was with Dualla standing outside the officers' quarters listening to Apollo and Starbuck?


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Amnesia said:


> What was with Dualla standing outside the officers' quarters listening to Apollo and Starbuck?


They had hinted earlier on that she has feelings for him. I think it was earlier in this season.


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## questfortruth (Feb 18, 2005)

I really liked the narrative choices that they made in this episode. This series is character-driven, so the decision to focus on the Caine-Adama struggle- played out through Starbuck and the Pegasus XO- was inspired.

As for the battlestars overpowering the basestars...it looked to me as though one of the Pegasus landing bays suffered major damage in the attack (around the 42:50 mark on my recording of the episode). We'll probably find out more in the next episode.


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> What was with Dualla standing outside the officers' quarters listening to Apollo and Starbuck?


I read through 53 posts waiting for someone to pick up on this. Was it just as simple as Dualla having a thing for Lee? For a minute there I thought Lee was still unaware of how Caine died and was going to say something about Stabuck's orders to kill her with Dualla listening.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

ronsch said:


> I read through 53 posts waiting for someone to pick up on this. Was it just as simple as Dualla having a thing for Lee? For a minute there I thought Lee was still unaware of how Caine died and was going to say something about Stabuck's orders to kill her with Dualla listening.


But you could get a strong inference about what her orders were based on Kara's comments.


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## ccooperev (Apr 24, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Newbie.


well funny you should think that. I've been around on this board for like 4 years now almost. It seems that somehow my post ticker got set back a big notch. I figure I actually have closer to 400 posts.


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## chronatog7 (Aug 26, 2004)

Great show. 
BTW, we haven't seen the Robot-Cylons in quite a while. Maybe the save the CGI budget for the battle.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

ccooperev said:


> What if the cylons intentionally allowed the BSG fleet to destroy these assets?


that's the main question, isn't it?

either the spylons can communicate with the base ships, or they can't...peg/six knew that the humans know of the resurrection ship (and I assume a yet-unknown spylon also knew)...if spylons are not in contact with the base ships, the surprise attack would be indeed a surprise...

but if spylons CAN communicate, then the cylons let the humans destroy the resurrection ship + 2 basestars...

all indications (Six being angry that the resurrection ship would be destroyed) are that the spylons are not in constant contact...


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## brenrher (Nov 22, 2003)

jfjellstad said:


> Am I the only one who thinks Apollo is very whiny for someone who never gets punished for going behind his commander's back?


No, you're not.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Anubys said:


> that's the main question, isn't it?
> 
> either the spylons can communicate with the base ships, or they can't...peg/six knew that the humans know of the resurrection ship (and I assume a yet-unknown spylon also knew)...if spylons are not in contact with the base ships, the surprise attack would be indeed a surprise...
> 
> ...


Keep in mind, PegSix _wanted_ the ship destroyed, so she wouldn't have been broadcasting warnings. And Boomer2 was kept out of the loop. So it would have been down to the undiscovered agents in the fleet to warn them, and since we don't know who they are*, we don't know if they were in a position to give substantive information on the attack...

(* The reporter is presumably on a civilian ship, and certainly wouldn't have classified access. But one has to wonder about the decoy ships, and whether word would have leaked in the civilian fleet from there?)


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

vikingguy said:


> I like the show but I have been waiting for this episode for months and months and it was very weak. They promised an epic battle to destroy the most important ship in the galaxy instead we got a few distant shots and a cyclon killing cain.


If the only thing you were looking for was an epic space battle, then you are absolutely right.

After watching the show, I also realized that an epic space battle between Galactica, Pegasus, and the Basestars was little more than a sideshow in the scheme of the episode. As others have pointed out, that's because the writers were focusing on the characters, and the struggle between them. The writers consciously made that choice, because they knew the human conflict is more compelling than even an epic space battle.

And that's what sets BSG apart from nearly all other science fiction on TV, except Babylon 5. If all BSG had were spaceships and guns, it would have little to distinguish it from most of the dreck which passes for "sci-fi" on TV.

If you let go of your desire for big explosions, and accept this episode on its own terms, you'll realize that for dramatic impact it's right up there with anything from Babylon 5 (my own gold standard for TV SF before BSG appeared).


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

generalpatton71 said:


> It's amazing to me how well they develop story lines in this show. There always seems to be a story arch and I love that. To many scifi shows think you have to make a hour long show but at the end of the show all the characters must end up in the same place they began. BSG just doesn't do this and I love that. It lets them develop little things over time that ends up adding allot of drama to a situation.


If this aspect of BSG appeals to you, then you _absolutely owe it to yourself_ to watch Babylon 5. B5 pioneered the multi-season story arc in television SF, paving the way for shows like BSG. Like BSG, it is very character-driven, where characters deal with the consequences of their actions, and every victory has its cost.

It's available on DVD and is well worth it. I think that the SciFi channel might also carry it, and you can TiVo it via a Season Pass, but to be enjoyed properly (and to avoid some major spoilers) you must see it from the beginning. Be prepared; the first half of Season 1 might be a little slow to sit through. But by the end of the first season you will be hooked.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

dcheesi said:


> Keep in mind, PegSix _wanted_ the ship destroyed, so she wouldn't have been broadcasting warnings. And Boomer2 was kept out of the loop. So it would have been down to the undiscovered agents in the fleet to warn them, and since we don't know who they are*, we don't know if they were in a position to give substantive information on the attack...
> 
> (* The reporter is presumably on a civilian ship, and certainly wouldn't have classified access. But one has to wonder about the decoy ships, and whether word would have leaked in the civilian fleet from there?)


you're right...but I'm willing to bet there's a spylon on the Galactica bridge (*cough* Gaeta *cough*)...and others as well...

it also means that Six in Baltar's head is not in contact with the fleet or beaming herself to him...

and it means that spylons "in general" are not in a constant contact with the base stars.

unless they LET the humans do this, of course!


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## bobino (Jul 24, 2002)

mportuesi said:


> If this aspect of BSG appeals to you, then you _absolutely owe it to yourself_ to watch Babylon 5.


I'm interested in following this recommendation. I never saw any B5. I have a subscription to Netflix and see there are 5 seasons and five other things. Can anyone make a viewing order suggestion?

Babylon 5: Season 1 (6-Disc Series) (1994) 
Babylon 5: Season 2 (6-Disc Series) (1994) 
Babylon 5: Season 3 (6-Disc Series) (1995) 
Babylon 5: Season 4 (6-Disc Series) (1996) 
Babylon 5: Season 5 (6-Disc Series) (1998)

Babylon 5: The Gathering (1993) 
Babylon 5: Thirdspace (1998) 
Babylon 5: The River of Souls (1998) 
Babylon 5: In the Beginning (1998) 
Babylon 5: A Call to Arms (1999)

I'm thinking year of production but that idea falls apart in 1998.

Thanks for any tips.

-Bob


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

I've been out of the loop for a few months, so forgive me if this has been brought up, but has anything been mentioned on the show about how Pegasus's fighters WEREN'T taken out by the Cylon virus attacks? They appear to be the new model fighters that were vulnerable.

Did I just miss something?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

bobino said:


> I'm interested in following this recommendation. I never saw any B5. I have a subscription to Netflix and see there are 5 seasons and five other things. Can anyone make a viewing order suggestion?
> 
> Babylon 5: Season 1 (6-Disc Series) (1994)
> Babylon 5: Season 2 (6-Disc Series) (1994)
> ...


There's nothing in the movies that you need for the series, and the first movie spoils things that happen in the series, so the simplest thing would be to watch the series first, then the movies.

Or, you could go to epguides.com to see the original air-dates of the series and movies, and watch accordingly.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> There's nothing in the movies that you need for the series, and the first movie spoils things that happen in the series, so the simplest thing would be to watch the series first, then the movies.


Agreed. The first movie, "In the Beginning", is a prequel shot after the original series aired. It is definitely a spoiler if you haven't seen the series. The series creator pretty assumes you've seen the series, even though the events in the story precede it.

Best bet, like Rob said, is to start with Season 1, Episode 1. Save the movies until after you've seen the series.

Sorry for hijacking a BSG thread to talk B5, but folks who like one series are likely to like the other.


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## jwjody (Dec 7, 2002)

Is the 6 in Gaius head just that, in his head? I thought earlier this season or last it was very heavily suggested that she was an implant. But this time...Peg6 didn't recognize the story that Baltar told her about going to Pyramid games. Then when he told her the story 6 went away. I thought it was because Baltar figured out she was a figment of his imagination, but now he has the real thing.

J


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

spelcheker said:


> I've been out of the loop for a few months, so forgive me if this has been brought up, but has anything been mentioned on the show about how Pegasus's fighters WEREN'T taken out by the Cylon virus attacks? They appear to be the new model fighters that were vulnerable.
> 
> Did I just miss something?


Yes you did, they were in "drydock" or whatever, preparing to receive the latest upgrades (which included the virus), but didn't receive them before the attack.

The BSG of course didn't get any updates because it was about to be decommissioned.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Anubys said:


> you're right...but I'm willing to bet there's a spylon on the Galactica bridge (*cough* Gaeta *cough*)...and others as well...
> 
> it also means that Six in Baltar's head is not in contact with the fleet or beaming herself to him...


Probably not. And that's assuming she really _isn't_ just a figment of his imagination 



Anubys said:


> and it means that spylons "in general" are not in a constant contact with the base stars.
> 
> unless they LET the humans do this, of course!


But the cylons would have to be in contact range in order for the resurrection ship to be useful. So we're back to the agents either not knowing enough about the attack, or a decision not to use the information lest it give away their presence (or even their location; they have to be transmitting a signal of some sort, which could theoretically be detected).

This isn't the first time that the cylon's communication ability has been handled in a seemingly inconsistent way, though. The more I think about it, the more I believe that this is one of those "it's just a show" things, where the writers sacrifice logical continuity in favor of a compelling storyline.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jwjody said:


> Is the 6 in Gaius head just that, in his head? I thought earlier this season or last it was very heavily suggested that she was an implant.


I had thought that the result was that she was neither (whatever that means).

He had the doctor scan for a chip and didn't find one, right? That suggests it's not a chip. However Six told him things that he had no way of knowing and they turned out to be true. That suggests that she's not just his imagination.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

mportuesi said:


> If the only thing you were looking for was an epic space battle, then you are absolutely right.
> 
> After watching the show, I also realized that an epic space battle between Galactica, Pegasus, and the Basestars was little more than a sideshow in the scheme of the episode. As others have pointed out, that's because the writers were focusing on the characters, and the struggle between them. The writers consciously made that choice, because they knew the human conflict is more compelling than even an epic space battle.
> 
> ...


B5 did the battles right when they had them they did not half ass it like this episode did. Also what really went on both cain and adama chickened out so there was nothing to all that. The dramatic impact of this episode was not 1/1000 of severed dreams. Guess what severed dreams was character driven with an epic halacious battle. How good would of severed dreams been if B5 and the churchill whipped the floor easily with the earth force destroyers? It would of sucked all the drama out of the episode including an incredible ending and after math.

It is not the big explosions it is the intensity of the battle. It is the comand staff trying to out wit the enemy. The solders trying to carry out orders against impossible odds. It is seeing things up close and personal the battle ment nothing to the viewer because it was so easy and did not get to see the struggle.

What was character driven about this episode? The writers took the cheap and easy way out of everything. The battlestars whiped the floor with 2 basestars. Adama and cain each chickened out. Gina was some how supposed to sneak around a battle ship with 1000s of officers undetected. Hell the cyclons are complete morons for letting the resurection ship hang around while 2 battlestars showed up.

The pegasus did not take any real damage or else cain would of not left the bridge soon as the battle was over.


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## Warren (Oct 18, 2001)

I wonder if Caine could have stuck around for a few more episodes.

Also How come Lee wanted to die? YOu know he said he didn't want to come back alive.


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## Hersheytx (Feb 15, 2003)

First about SPylons. Was it not shown that they do not communicate directly with the baseships. Only on their deaths is the information they carry downloaded to the main computer.
But also the episode with the spylon reporter. They use a cylon fighter to sacrifice itself to get the information from the reporter and boost it back to the main cylon fleet. 
This shows that they have to be close to get information or they need to die and release to the rebirth ship.
Now that the rebirth ship is destroyed, they have killed two problems with one bullet. No more cylons downloading information when they die to the cylon fleet and scaring the human cylons from taking risks that get them killed.
Now its an even playing field.

Did anyone think it was ironic that Gina was whining about all the Cylons going to be killed in the upcoming battle? I mean thousands of cylons vs billions of humans in the first miniseires. She really was crying for their lives.....it just seem so unreal.

Also how long before Guise becomes acting President and helps lead the Humans into an ambush. Might be how Pegesus gets its final episode. Just a thought.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I thought this was a great episode until the end, when Gina assassinated Caine. Unless Adm Caine's quarters were around the corner from Gina's cell, there's no way Gina would know where they were, let alone know how to get there undetected. Wouldn't Gina need a "key" or a passcode to get into Caine's quarters?

Starbuck's "without flinching" comment sure seemed like a knock at Adama. If she eally thought that, why was she sweating bullets when it was time for her to whack Caine? She was sweating more than Shaq.


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## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> I thought this was a great episode until the end, when Gina assassinated Caine. Unless Adm Caine's quarters were around the corner from Gina's cell, there's no way Gina would know where they were, let alone know how to get there undetected. Wouldn't Gina need a "key" or a passcode to get into Caine's quarters?


The Gina on the ship was a crewmember of Pegasus. She'd know the layout of the ship.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

I'm suprised more people aren't mad at how the show backed down from such huge cliffhangers. At the end of Pegasus the ships launch, but then at the beginning of Ressurection Ship they just play chicken for a few minutes. Then the big cliffhanger of the two leaders trying to kill each other, and then they back down. I don't have a problem with this. It makes the characters human, but I expected a lot more *****ing.

The only thing I really want to complain about actually manifested itself in this thread. I don't like the idea that the Cylons are just toying with them and that they've been in control this whole time. That everything that happens they allow to happen. I don't like making it seem that the characters don't have a choice or a hand in the outcome.


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## Tsiehta (Jul 22, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> Yes you did, they were in "drydock" or whatever, preparing to receive the latest upgrades (which included the virus), but didn't receive them before the attack.
> 
> The BSG of course didn't get any updates because it was about to be decommissioned.


I must have missed this too. Does this mean that Only Pegasus received the update, but the rest of the fleet did not?


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

NoThru22 said:


> I'm suprised more people aren't mad at how the show backed down from such huge cliffhangers. At the end of Pegasus the ships launch, but then at the beginning of Ressurection Ship they just play chicken for a few minutes. Then the big cliffhanger of the two leaders trying to kill each other, and then they back down. I don't have a problem with this. It makes the characters human, but I expected a lot more *****ing.


Perhaps part of the reason is that the writing is good enough that they pull it off--the back-downs are plausible.


NoThru22 said:


> The only thing I really want to complain about actually manifested itself in this thread. I don't like the idea that the Cylons are just toying with them and that they've been in control this whole time. That everything that happens they allow to happen. I don't like making it seem that the characters don't have a choice or a hand in the outcome.


I think that's been largely the case up until now (although I still believe there are two Cylon factions, one that wants to wipe out the human race, and one that wants to whittle them down but use the survivors). But I'll be they never saw the attack this week coming! That might shake things up a bit in the Cylon world...


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Tsiehta said:


> I must have missed this too. Does this mean that Only Pegasus received the update, but the rest of the fleet did not?


Other way around. The update is what allowed the Cylons access to the ship systems. Pegasus did NOT get the update; everybody esle (except the obsolete Galactica) DID.


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## generalpatton71 (Oct 30, 2002)

mportuesi said:


> If this aspect of BSG appeals to you, then you _absolutely owe it to yourself_ to watch Babylon 5. B5 pioneered the multi-season story arc in television SF, paving the way for shows like BSG. Like BSG, it is very character-driven, where characters deal with the consequences of their actions, and every victory has its cost.
> 
> It's available on DVD and is well worth it. I think that the SciFi channel might also carry it, and you can TiVo it via a Season Pass, but to be enjoyed properly (and to avoid some major spoilers) you must see it from the beginning. Be prepared; the first half of Season 1 might be a little slow to sit through. But by the end of the first season you will be hooked.


Oh I was a big B5 fan back in the day. I however didn;t get into the short lived mini series. I also watched the ranger movie even though it went up against one of the greatest NFL games of all time (Patriots vs Raiders in the snow bowl).

Now in terms of the space battles.We can over think these things sometimes. Something to also remember though is theres a big difference between battleplans for protecting huge numbers of unarmed ships, and having two heavily armed war ships surprising and attacking another fleet.

If some of you guys don't like the show or just this episode. i don't know what to tell you but go watch Jar Jar binks or something because all shows on TV should strive for this type of quality.

I'd also like to say vikinguy if you re-read my proir poast I was saying the show was about a entire fleet trying to find earth not just BSG. Sometimes my posts can be confusing and disjointed so I aplogize for that. If you guys are fans of BSG you should make a point to see the very short lived original when it apears on scifi again. It truly is a poor mans star trek and star wars, but you can get a better idea about what still drives some the show today.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Remember- "Two for flinching!"


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Perhaps part of the reason is that the writing is good enough that they pull it off--the back-downs are plausible.


I don't know, I certainly wasn't expecting Caine to back off, and I had to go back and "retcon" an explanation for it. In the previous episode, it did *not* sound like this was a contingency plan for her; she was committed. And I saw nothing in this episode that should have changed her mind.

BTW, If she suspected the plot with Starbuck (and I think she did, at least by the end of the phone call), then that would be more reason to eliminate Adama as a threat. Just because he backed down this time doesn't mean he wouldn't try again the next time she p*ssed him off...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

vikingguy said:


> I like the episode but very very disapointed in the battle. I was hoping to finally get an epic battle on this show. Intead we get to see some fighting in the distance. I wanted to hear adama bark out orders and watch them excuted. I wanted to see up close the point blank battle between the basestars and battlestars. I also hate that they took the cowardly way out on caine. I wanted to see one of the good guys do something bad.


You people should really listen to the podcasts. 

The battle itself was not the focus of the show, as Ron Moore, the producer says. It is about the characters, and the moral dilemmas and the power struggle going on in the fleet. He says specifically says it's not about showing footage of Vipers launching for the 50th time, that gets old, doing the same thing over and over again. The battle is important from the point of view of the human fleet, but not the emphasis of the story they are telling at the moment.



GTO40 said:


> Absolutely the best episode yet, IMHO. The producers apparently know World War II history very well, taking a page directly out the battle of Midway. A Navy or Marine pilot was shotdown near the Japanese Fleet and witnessed the entire battle from a raft. Apollo being that pilot witnessing the battle firsthand.


Another thing mentioned in the podcast. That story was the inspiration for showing the battle from that perspective. Again, they wanted to do something different, not just the same old battle shots. They were also going to show Apollo floating amongst other refuse of the battle, including dead bodies. After shooting some of that, they decided that it didn't work, and scrapped that part.



vikingguy said:


> Also how was gina able to easily escape a battle ship with 1000s of solders?


That wasn't Gina, that was Six.  Moore consistently calls the Six in Baltar's head Gina, and the one on the Pegasus, just Six.

But on the escape, his comments are kind of funny. I'm trying to remember the exact words, but it was along the lines of..."How did Six get off the ship? I don't know...Baltar helped her, or did something...who the f*** cares?"


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

warrenevans said:


> Also How come Lee wanted to die? YOu know he said he didn't want to come back alive.


My guess is that first he witnessed the entire human race nearly obliterated. He found some sanity and solace in the President and to some degree his father. Then he discovers that not only did his father order a hit on Caine, but it was the President's idea. I think that sent him over the edge.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

bryan314 said:


> The Gina on the ship was a crewmember of Pegasus. She'd know the layout of the ship.


Particularly since she had previously been very close to Caine (my opinion).


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

Great ep. A couple of thoughts: 

- Regarding Gina (Pegasus 6) and, for lack of a better distinction, the 6 in Baltar's head (I was going to call her Head 6, but...)Anyone else think that Gina may end up being one of the "conflicted" Cylons, a la Bun in the Oven Boomer? I know that previously it was surmised that Boomer's tendency to sympathize with humans was a trait specific to her "model," but maybe it's not that simple... Gina's willingness to die and sacrifice the resurrection ships is very interesting.

- Someone else raised this issue earlier (though I don't think it was clearly understood), but isn't it odd that Adama and Roslin are now so close hard on the heels of her trying to usurp his authority and him, essentially, leading a coup? (Cue Rob: "It wasn't a coup!"). Seems really strange to me.

- I see some potential conflict brewing between Starbuck and Adama. Clearly she's very loyal to him, but she was also beginning to develop a great deal of admiration for Caine. Her eulogy indicated that she thought Caine's death was a serious blow to the Colonials and that her toughness would be sorely missed in the long run. I sensed that perhaps she was questioning whether Adama was willing to make the very hard choices. Also, anyone else sense that maybe her tone suggested that she didn't think Gina's escape and Caine's assasination were accidental?

- Also, someone posted a question earlier about why Apollo wanted to die. I think the answer is simple: he's tired of the constant fight to survive with no end in sight.


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> Yes you did, they were in "drydock" or whatever, preparing to receive the latest upgrades (which included the virus), but didn't receive them before the attack.
> 
> The BSG of course didn't get any updates because it was about to be decommissioned.


Actually, I think the BSG did get the update. Remember, Galactica's main fighter squadron got destroyed in the opening fight. OK, the Galactica itself probably didn't get updated because of obsolete hardware, but what could be upgraded probably was.


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## lord-dogbert (Jan 31, 2005)

As for pegsix access to Caine's quarters:
She took the guards weapon and his fob for accessing the ships doors. Since he's in security he has access to all areas of the ship. It probably wasn't all that hard for pegsic to move around the ship seeming as lots of people were busy attending to damage. There are lots of nooks and crannies in the battlestar hallways to hide in. She used to be a crew member so she knows the ships layout.

Software updates:
Pegasus did not receive Baltars updated navaigation code, nor did her vipers. The Galactica on the other hand did have her Viper's software updated which is why they all got wiped out in the first episode. The Galactica had to of recently departed spacedock since her Starboard pod was converted to the museum. They must've updated the Viper software at that time. Galactica did receive the software update as well because the first thing that Baltar does upon arrival is back the update out. Galactica herself just wasn't close enough to the combat theatre yet to be affected. Then again, Galactica has no network so that must be key for the Cylon exploit to work.

Caine leaving the bridge:
Any good leader is a delegator, you delegate to people you trust and follow up with them as needed. There was no indication of time as well. Caine's neck was obviously sore in CIC and more so in her quarters so this leads me to believe that there was time in between. Furthermore, look at US Naval ships where the Admiral's flag resides. The Admiral usually doesn't get involved in daily ships activity unless it's major. Her CIC is also much smaller than Galactica's so I think that she was on the Admiral's bridge and actual ships functions were run from the regular CIC.

Pegasus XO on Galactica in CIC:
If I were Adama I would really have to question why the XO from the Pegasus was on my ship, his function is to back up HIS commander.

The kiss:
No one mentions this yet but that was an interesting lip to lip kiss between Admiral Adama and the President. He is going to be crushed when she dies. The President is a major character so perhaps Baltar will find a way of moving her brain into a Cylon model. Imagine being Hot and President of the colonies. Perhaps Sharon's baby holds the cure to cancer since it's a hybrid  

The starboard hanger:
When is someone going to start converting this pod back to operational status. All it takes is one Cylon kamikaze and the Galactica's flight ops are down. Granted they have been busy but I would at least work on recovery capability. 

Stealth ship:
They'll build another one, especially now with the engineer on board :up:


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## Zen98031 (Sep 29, 2005)

Just going to throw out a thought I have floating in my head for everybody else to see.

We have not seen a big attack by the Cylons on the fleet in a while. Before now any kind of prolonged battle would be a little unbelievable because Galactica's fighters are in such low numbers. But now they have a whole mess of fighters and I predict that despite the loss of their Resurrection ship they will come at the fleet harder than ever now. They pretty much have too, otherwise we have a show about a fleet trying to make it to Earth without any outside danger and that is just not up to the standard that BSG has set so far. Though when the Cylons do attack, Galatica and Pegasus will be ready for it and I have a feeling we will see that epic space battle some here have said they wish they saw with this episode.

Mitch


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Hersheytx said:


> Did anyone think it was ironic that Gina was whining about all the Cylons going to be killed in the upcoming battle? I mean thousands of cylons vs billions of humans in the first miniseires. She really was crying for their lives.....it just seem so unreal.


this is actually wat makes he show great...just look at current events...no one cares if hundreds of "them" die. But if one of "us" dies...it's a tragedy...perfectly "human"...

when a cylon dies, where is it downloaded and then sent to the resurrection ship? that's what the crew should be researching...there must be some sort of communication going on...


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

How'd the Pegasus crew discover Gina was a Cylon? Crappy memory. Sorry.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

IIRC, Gina performed (or attempted to perform) some act of sabotage on the Pegasus. They never really explain how they find out she's not just an actual saboteur, but a Cylon. I'd wager it's something Lieutenant Thorne found out in interrogation.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

hefe said:


> You people should really listen to the podcasts.
> 
> The battle itself was not the focus of the show, as Ron Moore, the producer says. It is about the characters, and the moral dilemmas and the power struggle going on in the fleet. He says specifically says it's not about showing footage of Vipers launching for the 50th time, that gets old, doing the same thing over and over again. The battle is important from the point of view of the human fleet, but not the emphasis of the story they are telling at the moment.
> 
> ...


If battles are completely meaningless then why make a show that takes place on a battleship where 90% of the major characters are warriors. Hell whats next making a crime scene show where they don't solve crimes but sit around and have orgies or scheme ways to win in office politics.

B5 also did a battle from a different perspective from a couple of maintenance guys. The difference is B5 did this special episode with an every day battle BSG did thier idea on the biggest battle of the series.

I love when the head of the show says who the **** cares about a major plot point.

Being almost every character is a warrior I think watching and seeing how they react during major combat mission would give a lot of insite into thier character.


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## mportuesi (Nov 11, 2002)

PJO1966 said:


> My guess is that first he (Lee) witnessed the entire human race nearly obliterated. He found some sanity and solace in the President and to some degree his father. Then he discovers that not only did his father order a hit on Caine, but it was the President's idea. I think that sent him over the edge.


Bingo. In the scene between Lee and Adama, Lee seems visibly shaken when he learns the hit on Caine was the President's idea. Like he was betrayed or disillusioned. Like the last thing left he could put his trust in had gone.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

PJO1966 said:


> My guess is that first he witnessed the entire human race nearly obliterated. He found some sanity and solace in the President and to some degree his father. Then he discovers that not only did his father order a hit on Caine, but it was the President's idea. I think that sent him over the edge.


Eh, I chalked it up mostly to hypoxia myself. The fatigue and disorientation could easily lead to the sort disassociated apathy he felt. Normally I wouldn't read too much into it, but of course this is the kind of show where _everything_ is important (gun-in-the-drawer rule), so who knows?


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

jfjellstad said:


> Actually, I think the BSG did get the update. Remember, Galactica's main fighter squadron got destroyed in the opening fight. OK, the Galactica itself probably didn't get updated because of obsolete hardware, but what could be upgraded probably was.


BSG did not get the update, Adama, remembering the old run in with the Cylons refused to alow the ship to have it's computers tied to the colonial network because he was one of the few concerned that the Cylons might come back and they had worked through the network before.

If I remember right, it was not an update, but a virus that was broadcast through the network that disabled all of the battle fleet. BSG had a few old fighters, not tied to the network, and even fewer new fighters that were tied to the network, there for the decommision ceremony. The new fighters were disabled when the virus was sent.

Pegasus was in dry dock, with their computers down for servicing. Thus no virus was sent. Seeing what happened, she most likely did not reconnect your computers to the network.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

vikingguy said:


> If battles are completely meaningless then why make a show that takes place on a battleship where 90% of the major characters are warriors.


Nobody ever said "completely meaningless." They serve the story, but they aren't usually the focus of the story. And in this case, the intelligence they got led to a fairly easy victory in this battle. There wasn't much drama in the battle anyway.


vikingguy said:


> B5 also did a battle from a different perspective from a couple of maintenance guys. The difference is B5 did this special episode with an every day battle BSG did thier idea on the biggest battle of the series.


I've never seen B5, so the discussion of it doesn't mean much to me...


vikingguy said:


> I love when the head of the show says who the **** cares about a major plot point.


The point he is making about that is that the specific detail isn't important. They could write in the exact circumstances, but the point is that she got away somehow. They don't feel the method is a big deal, and doesn't significantly enhance the story they're focusing on.


vikingguy said:


> Being almost every character is a warrior I think watching and seeing how they react during major combat mission would give a lot of insite into thier character.


We got some insight into a major character...Apollo, when he decided he didn't really want to come back. It will be interesting to see if his newly realized feelings affect his thoughts and actions going forward.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

lord-dogbert, please spoiler tag discussions from the previews for next week. That is forum policy.


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## lord-dogbert (Jan 31, 2005)

NoThru22 said:


> lord-dogbert, please spoiler tag discussions from the previews for next week. That is forum policy.


Sorry


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## lord-dogbert (Jan 31, 2005)

mportuesi said:


> Bingo. In the scene between Lee and Adama, Lee seems visibly shaken when he learns the hit on Caine was the President's idea. Like he was betrayed or disillusioned. Like the last thing left he could put his trust in had gone.


Lee needs to grow up and realize that the Admiral was a threat to the fleet. She would take out the entire fleet if it meant saving her bacon. Picard would be very very upset with her.


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Now that she's gone can we spell the character's name correctly please? No 'e' -just Cain.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Thanks for the clarification, 5thcrewmane.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

lord-dogbert said:


> Lee needs to grow up and realize that the Admiral was a threat to the fleet. She would take out the entire fleet if it meant saving her bacon. Picard would be very very upset with her.


...although I don't think Lee knows very much about what she'd been up to...


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

hefe said:


> The battle itself was not the focus of the show, as Ron Moore, the producer says. It is about the characters, and the moral dilemmas and the power struggle going on in the fleet...


That's a copout--and a common one among cult producers I think--appealing to little highbrow critic in all of us. Who's going to be philistine enough to complain that there wasn't enough bang-bang! after he's appealed to our artistic discernment? But, he more or less admits that they screwed up, as you quoted:


hefe said:


> ...They were also going to show Apollo floating amongst other refuse of the battle, including dead bodies. After shooting some of that, they decided that it didn't work, and scrapped that part.


They knew that their replacement for a battle sequence didn't work and tried to fix it by going all artsy and symbolic, but the fix wasn't any more satisfying.


> But on the escape, his comments are kind of funny. I'm trying to remember the exact words, but it was along the lines of..."How did Six get off the ship? I don't know...Baltar helped her, or did something...who the f*** cares?"


I know I'm supposed to applaud his auteuristic daring, but I'm not going to. I like to have these annoying plot points filled in. I always suspect this sort of flippancy is incompetence masquerading as audacity.

Still, the writers, et al, did produce an episode that was satisfying in most every other way, so this series is in no danger of having its SP deleted.

On Lee's resignation to death, I think it's remarkable that more characters haven't slipped into the same sort of melancholia. Their world was destroyed and they're being pursued across the universe by tireless, remorseless, soulless (maybe not?) killers. What happens when word gets out that Earth is a myth? If they discover that they've not only lost their past, but their future? This is an interesting subject that I'm sure they will explore.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

jfjellstad said:


> Actually, I think the BSG did get the update. Remember, Galactica's main fighter squadron got destroyed in the opening fight. OK, the Galactica itself probably didn't get updated because of obsolete hardware, but what could be upgraded probably was.


Only the new Mark VII Vipers had trouble, like the one Apollo had.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I know I'm supposed to applaud his auteuristic daring, but I'm not going to. I like to have these annoying plot points filled in. I always suspect this sort of flippancy is incompetence masquerading as audacity.


you're not the only one to complain about this...so here are the details:

Baltar gave her a key. This key opens any door. He found it in the bathroom. Gina used the key to open some doors, carefully hiding from others. She pretended to read a newspaper that had two holes in it (for her eyes); very cleverly escaping attention. She quickly made it into Cain's room because she knows the layout. Gina is now hiding (probably in the ducts, but we don't know for sure yet).

ok? 

should have put this in a spoiler tag?


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## ovr8ted (Feb 27, 2005)

^  Nicely done.

As to the whole comparison between BSG and B5, enough already. I never saw B5, but I have been told it was very very good, however now I am almost hesitant to watch it because a few are so pit bullish here. Get over it, move on, there is next Friday to begin nitpicking again!!!

So Dualla gave up on Billy? What did I miss?

I got the impression we have seen the last of Rosylan. 

Starbuck, will be enlightened to the error of Cain's ways by the (previously) XO. An apology will be made to Adama, he will pick her up with one hand and slam her on the ground, , oh wait, that's already been done to Boomer  (man that was a great scene!)

I'm ready for next Friday, anyone else?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Fool Me Twice said:


> That's a copout--and a common one among cult producers I think--appealing to little highbrow critic in all of us. Who's going to be philistine enough to complain that there wasn't enough bang-bang! after he's appealed to our artistic discernment? But, he more or less admits that they screwed up, as you quoted:


I fail to see how that's an admission of a screw up. Some ideas work better on paper, some have a different feel when you look at it. What program, TV or movie, doesn't undergo editing and rethinking?

This whole Resurrection Ship episode actually started out to be a single episode. As it turns out, they had much more material than they could fit in one episode, and didn't want to trim as much as it would have taken to get it down to one, so they made it a two-parter.

Part of the equation also is what they have time and budget for.

As for the battle sequences, I happen to like how it was presented.

YMMV, of course.


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

I just get frustrated with the show because I go from really liking every minute and not wanting to wait a week (or several months) for the next episode to being very disappointed. 

I definitely get Moore's point that technical mumbo-jumbo ("transfer power to the shields" or "inverse reverse tachon neutrion bursts") is pretty pointless. The mini-series kept most of the battles in the background and I thought that was perfect. 

The series started out as a desperate race for survival from a powerful enemy. The conflict between Roslin and Adama was facinating, and seeing the conflict in Baltar between not really wanting to be a bad guy but definitely looking out almost entirely for himself was very interesting. I really liked the episodes with Richard Hatch too, with all the resulting "character development".

But given the way things stood at the beginning of the last episode, everything seemed to unfold in the lamest way imaginable. The powerful cylon force no longer seems that menacing, and whatever effort went into exploring the characters passed me by. All of the plot lines wound up, and then gently wound right back down. The raptors dancing around one another for a few minutes without firing is a good example. I'll admit that whatever is going on with Apollo is new, but at the moment I don't find that I care that much. I did think the kiss from Adama was unexpected and interesting. 

I just get the feeling that the writers really don't know where they are going with the series.


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

jwreiner said:


> The powerful cylon force no longer seems that menacing, and whatever effort went into exploring the characters passed me by. All of the plot lines wound up, and then gently wound right back down. The raptors dancing around one another for a few minutes without firing is a good example. I'll admit that whatever is going on with Apollo is new, but at the moment I don't find that I care that much. I did think the kiss from Adama was unexpected and interesting.
> 
> I just get the feeling that the writers really don't know where they are going with the series.


That is what I am talking about they cheapened the show with such an easy battle. Why were they afraid the cylons when they could kick thier asses so easy like RS2. The battle should of been hard and difficult instead it was a cake walk. Is there any reason that adama should not turn around and kick the cyclons out of the 12 colonies? They whipped 2 basestars with almost no efford.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

vikingguy said:


> Is there any reason that adama should not turn around and kick the cyclons out of the 12 colonies? They whipped 2 basestars with almost no efford.


It is important to know that the original material is at least somewhat respected.

The Cylons' advantages have always (in this context) been overwhelming numbers and deceit. Fighter-to-fighter, carrier-to-carrier, tactical-to-tactical, the humans have always been superior.

In this battle we had two human Battlestars, one of them fully-staffed and equipped. That's quite formidable against a Cylon task force remotely deployed well-away from the main armada. But formidable enough to frontally assault the occupied colonies? Maybe not so much.

And going back to the context of the original material (and btw the series name is "Battlestar Gallactica", not Battlestars: Gallactica and whatever others come along), the Pegasus is not a permanent part of the series. Whether it is destroyed or wanders off with uncertainty about it's fate, or just takes another direction, one way or the other it's gone.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Also, note that in past instances when Galactica when toe-to-toe with a Basestar, they barely escaped intact. The difference is this time, they had the initiative; they knew where the Cylons were going to be (for once), and they were able to take them by surprise and divide their forces. If they go back to the Colonies, they won't be two-on-two; they'll be two on gods know how many.


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## sschwart (Apr 4, 2001)

Ok. That episode just totally rocked!

Just...wow. I loved Baltar reciting Six's lines back at well... Six.

The tension between the two ships, the assasination orders... Just perfectly played out the whole way.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jwreiner said:


> I did think the kiss from Adama was unexpected and interesting.


So did the producer, the director, and Mary McDonnell...


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwreiner
I did think the kiss from Adama was unexpected and interesting. 


Not to anyone with 2 eyes.


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## jwreiner (Aug 19, 2003)

hefe said:


> So did the producer, the director, and Mary McDonnell...


I didn't get to the end of the podcast. Did EJO improvise the kiss?


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## jfjellstad (May 6, 2002)

kmccbf said:


> BSG did not get the update, Adama, remembering the old run in with the Cylons refused to alow the ship to have it's computers tied to the colonial network because he was one of the few concerned that the Cylons might come back and they had worked through the network before.
> 
> If I remember right, it was not an update, but a virus that was broadcast through the network that disabled all of the battle fleet. BSG had a few old fighters, not tied to the network, and even fewer new fighters that were tied to the network, there for the decommision ceremony. The new fighters were disabled when the virus was sent.
> 
> Pegasus was in dry dock, with their computers down for servicing. Thus no virus was sent. Seeing what happened, she most likely did not reconnect your computers to the network.


I'm sorry, but you're wrong. As someone mentioned in this thread somewhere, the first thing Baltar did when he came aboard Galactica was to remove the update. The virus was broadcast by the Cylon attack forces, but the software update itself was an update to the defence network (with a backdoor for the Cylons as introduced by Six). I'm guessing the reason the older fighters never got updated was because they were never intended to be flown into combat (they were museum pieces when they got put into service)

If there was no update, there wouldn't be a reason for Six to get involved with Baltar, to get access to the defence software. And Baltar wouldn't be so afraid of people finding out that he helped the Cylons get access to the defence software.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

jwreiner said:


> I didn't get to the end of the podcast. Did EJO improvise the kiss?


Yup. That's what Moore said.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

hefe said:


> Yup. That's what Moore said.


No kidding?? Wow. And it was played so well by both of them, too.


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## kmccbf (Mar 9, 2002)

jfjellstad said:


> I'm sorry, but you're wrong. As someone mentioned in this thread somewhere, the first thing Baltar did when he came aboard Galactica was to remove the update. The virus was broadcast by the Cylon attack forces, but the software update itself was an update to the defence network (with a backdoor for the Cylons as introduced by Six). I'm guessing the reason the older fighters never got updated was because they were never intended to be flown into combat (they were museum pieces when they got put into service)
> 
> If there was no update, there wouldn't be a reason for Six to get involved with Baltar, to get access to the defence software. And Baltar wouldn't be so afraid of people finding out that he helped the Cylons get access to the defence software.


You may be right, I'm operating from memory, I haven't watched the first season since it aired. I do remember clearly a discussion that Adama refused to let the Galatica's computers be networked to the whole system, I believe his words, were "not while I'm in command." - If they received the update they received manually, not via the network. They made a big deal about his refusal to link via the network. I thought it was a spying device that Baltar removed. I do remember him removing the update from some of the new vipers, but not from the battlestar itself. As I said, I'm operating from memory, so it may not be accurate.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

vertigo235 said:


> Only the new Mark VII Vipers had trouble, like the one Apollo had.


Actually Apollo had an old Mark II during the attack, but his (unlike the others) had been specially retrofitted with the same "modern" equipment used in the Mark VIIs. Even so, it was never clear to me whether he got taken out by the 'virus' (really a remote-triggered trojan) or from the explosion/debris when he hit those first raiders(?). (If it was the virus, why didn't it kick _before_ he engaged the enemy, as with the other compromised fighters?).

BTW, I think the whole point of the trojan was that the Colonials had hardened their systems and limited networking to the point that a simple virus/worm wouldn't be able to propagate to all systems in a timely manner. The fighters in particular are probably non-networked (externally). So they had to get the malicious code installed into each system ahead of time, which could then be triggered by a remote code fed into the navigation computer via ships' sensors.


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## LlamaLarry (Apr 30, 2003)

Man, I guess I missed the whole Cylon attack and disable was predicated on the insertion of a Trojan Horse/backdoor put there by Baltar. I always figured he gave out access codes that caused the defense system outage and that all other networked computing was disrupted by direct Cylon attacks/infections. 

I too was baffled how Pegasus had been raiding Cylon bases since the attack on Caprica and was able to join in on the attack with the Resurrection Ship. 

When Gaeta set up firewalls to prevent infection last season was he doing something special that forced the Cylons to try and penetrate or are they "always trying"?


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Charon2 said:


> The big question I think now is do they know how involved Baltar was with the release of the Pegasus 6? Will this be the start of seeing Baltar on a Cylon Base Star as in the old show?


At some point Baltar has to prove he is superior to the cylons and can't be manipulated so easily. As he gains more knowledge of them he may also be able to manipulate them and at this point I wonder if his initial reason for joining them later might be to call them off. Wouldn't it be a twist if Baltar turns out to be a good guy working from the other side?


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

dcheesi said:


> Actually Apollo had an old Mark II during the attack, but his (unlike the others) had been specially retrofitted with the same "modern" equipment used in the Mark VIIs.


I'm almost positive that when he arrived in his viper it was one of the new Mark VII versions. Remember, he was not stationed on the BSG, he was only there for the ceremony.

I'll have to pull out the DIVX disk and check!


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> I'm almost positive that when he arrived in his viper it was one of the new Mark VII versions. Remember, he was not stationed on the BSG, he was only there for the ceromony.
> 
> I'll have to pull out the DIVX disk and check!


You are correct.


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## Jonathan_S (Oct 23, 2001)

LlamaLarry said:


> When Gaeta set up firewalls to prevent infection last season was he doing something special that forced the Cylons to try and penetrate or are they "always trying"?


The writers haven't chosen to make the method of Cylon attack perfectly clear and consistent.

What we do know is that Baltar did slip a backdoor into the Colonial Defense network, which allowed the Cylons to rapidly crash or shutdown the computers on the Battlestars and Vipers during their initial attack.

Additionally, it seems that the Cylons constantly mount electronic warfare attacks on any Colonial networks that they can find. These attacks don't have the advantage of a built in back door, but are still apparently extremely effective at attacking Colonial systems.

When Gaeta set up the firewalls, it was because he was networking computers that normally (per Adama's orders) only operated in a standalone fashion. By connecting them in a network, they somehow became vulnerable to Cylon hacking, and the firewalls were an attempt to slow this hacking to buy time for the necessary processing to be completed.

(This explanation still leaves some unclear issues. One is how an network totally internal to Galactica provides any vector of attack to the Cylons. Another is how Pegasus, which presumably had a network [although probably one without Baltar's backdoor inserted] was able to survive Cylon hacking attempts).


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> I'm almost positive that when he arrived in his viper it was one of the new Mark VII versions. Remember, he was not stationed on the BSG, he was only there for the ceremony.
> 
> I'll have to pull out the DIVX disk and check!


Apollo arrived at Galactica in his loaner Mark VII Viper. However, during the decommision ceremony, as well as during his trip to escort Roslin back to Caprica, he was flying his father's old Mark II Viper, which the Chief and his crew had found in a junkyard and restored back to its original condition.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Jonathan_S said:


> What we do know is that Baltar did slip a backdoor into the Colonial Defense network, which allowed the Cylons to rapidly crash or shutdown the computers on the Battlestars and Vipers during their initial attack.


Actually, I'm 99.9999999% sure that it wasn't Baltar that installed the backdoor, but Six (the original Six on Caprica that he was sleeping with). She made comments in the miniseries and again in the first season that Baltar gave her carte blanche access to the Colonial Defense Mainframe in exchange for help with his research.


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## Stormspace (Apr 13, 2004)

Jonathan_S said:


> (This explanation still leaves some unclear issues. One is how an network totally internal to Galactica provides any vector of attack to the Cylons. Another is how Pegasus, which presumably had a network [although probably one without Baltar's backdoor inserted] was able to survive Cylon hacking attempts).


The only explaination I can think of is that the mainframes were connected wirelessly or that some of them were connected wirelessly since Gaeta pulls the plug at the end of the show. Another option might be if one of the computers was a tactical computer that collects data from the vipers. Normally it's isolated but this time wasn't. And there's always the possibility I know absolutely nothing.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Skittles said:


> Apollo arrived at Galactica in his loaner Mark VII Viper. However, during the decommision ceremony, as well as during his trip to escort Roslin back to Caprica, he was flying his father's old Mark II Viper, which the Chief and his crew had found in a junkyard and restored back to its original condition.


I'm watching it right now. I'm not sure what you mean by "loaner" because the Mark VII he arrived in had his insignia plate with his call sign on it and everything.

However, you're right about him having the Mark II during the ceromony and during the escort.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Stormspace said:


> The only explaination I can think of is that the mainframes were connected wirelessly or that some of them were connected wirelessly since Gaeta pulls the plug at the end of the show. Another option might be if one of the computers was a tactical computer that collects data from the vipers. Normally it's isolated but this time wasn't. And there's always the possibility I know absolutely nothing.


Probably the best explanation is that computers are roughly equivalent to magic to the writers, who assume that if computers are networked they're vulnerable to hackers.

It's been pretty clear all along that the writers know absolutely nothing about networking.


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

vertigo235 said:


> I'm watching it right now. I'm not sure what you mean by "loaner" because the Mark VII he arrived in had his insignia plate with his call sign on it and everything.


Oh, just a screw-up in terminology on my part. I just meant that Lee's Viper is "on loan" to Galactica from whatever ship/base he was stationed at previously.

Come to think of it, we never really find out where he was and what he was doing before the decommission ceremony, do we?


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Probably the best explanation is that computers are roughly equivalent to magic to the writers, who assume that if computers are networked they're vulnerable to hackers.


So, basically... "if you see something you can't explain, a wizard did it."?

And ironically enough, Lucy Lawless is a guest star on the show.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

Skittles said:


> Oh, just a screw-up in terminology on my part. I just meant that Lee's Viper is "on loan" to Galactica from whatever ship/base he was stationed at previously.
> 
> Come to think of it, we never really find out where he was and what he was doing before the decommission ceremony, do we?


Good point... I never thought of that... He never showed any concern for whoever he was stationed with before.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

Skittles said:


> Oh, just a screw-up in terminology on my part. I just meant that Lee's Viper is "on loan" to Galactica from whatever ship/base he was stationed at previously.
> 
> Come to think of it, we never really find out where he was and what he was doing before the decommission ceremony, do we?


Not that I recall, maybe we'll find out more this season.


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## NoThru22 (May 6, 2005)

Skittles said:


> Actually, I'm 99.9999999% sure that it wasn't Baltar that installed the backdoor, but Six (the original Six on Caprica that he was sleeping with). She made comments in the miniseries and again in the first season that Baltar gave her carte blanche access to the Colonial Defense Mainframe in exchange for help with his research.


Darn it, I've been wading through about ten posts on the subject, ready to correct it, but you beat me to it. I hate long workdays!


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

Regarding all the comments about "How did Six get off the Pegasus?"; hell, how did an earlier Six get off the Galactica when Adama had her under surveillance?


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## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Thom said:


> Regarding all the comments about "How did Six get off the Pegasus?"; hell, how did an earlier Six get off the Galactica when Adama had her under surveillance?


(A) She never did. 

(I kind of expect the Shelley Godfrey plotline to come back at some point)


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Bump to top for the HD crowd.

Kinda sad to see the blackbird go... what exactly hit him?

All in all, I think things tidied up nicely although I'm not sure the Pegasus will be around for the long haul. Will also be interesting to see the follow up with Gaius if they address that at all.


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