# Help Please Green screen severe failure



## DiFontaine (May 15, 2004)

Hi there 
Using TIVO today and it seems to keep powering up and then a grren screen saying severe failure, do not disconnect as the receiver is trying to resolve the problem.

It was working fine last night but doesn't seem happy today.

Any ideas whats wrong and how I sort it?

Thanks


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Has it been upgraded?
If so how long ago?

Most likely cause of the "Green Screen Of Death" GSOD is the hard drive is on the way out.

It may recover if left alone for 24hrs.

Automan.


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## DiFontaine (May 15, 2004)

yes it was upgraded a couple of years ago. New disk and whatever the latest software was.


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

New drives seem to fail more quickly than old ones 

Do you have the original drive as a backup?

Automan.


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## DiFontaine (May 15, 2004)

No that one went bad as well so it was thrown out. Looks like a search on ebay for a new drive. I will leave it alone for a bit to see if it sorts itself out. Thanks


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Unfortunately if a drive is starting to give errors it's unlikely to get better even if the GSOD sorts out the current problem 

However, depending on the drive manufacturer (and although it won't be useable in a TiVo without configuration) you may be able to get a free replacement for your failing drive if is still in warranty. Samsung warranties are 3 years and replacements are normally sent out within a week by www.rexo.co.uk; Seagate take slightly longer to send replacements, but their warranty for drives purchased since July 2005 is longer too at 5 years - see www.seagate.com.

FYI, pre-configured drives are also available from other sources than eBay, but I'm not allowed to say much more about that


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> FYI, pre-configured drives are also available from other sources than eBay, but I'm not allowed to say much more about that


Many here seem to have found success in getting pre configured replacement upgrade drives from www.tivoheaven.co.uk and www.tivoland.com

It does work out more expensive than configuring a new drive yourself but its probably best to try and judge whether you might be comfortable doing that kind of stuff yourself or not by studying the guides at www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

Don't replace a drive just because you've had one GSOD.

The GSOD is the equivalent of CHKDSK or SCANDISK correcting an error in the file allocation table on a PC, but for the MFS filesystem. It can be caused by software bugs, unhandled resource clashes, power-cuts, etc, as well as physical drive errors.

If it doesn't repeat itself for a while, and it manages to correct the errors, just ignore it.

If you leave it, does it reboot back into the GSOD automatically, or is that because you are cutting the power to it? It can take a long time to complete. A GSOD/reboot loop can be caused by the swapfile not being increased sufficiently during the upgrade, so that the GSOD doesn't have enough space to complete.


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## DiFontaine (May 15, 2004)

I get the powering up screen , then almost there then GSOD and it starts again. I have left it for 24 hours now and it keeps repeating every few minutes or so


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## Automan (Oct 29, 2000)

Sounds like a hard drive transplant is needed.
Earlier post suggest several places where you can get one.

Only one bit of information is really required....
Did you have the 2.5.5a software variant to overcome the teletext bug that upsets most new TV's?

The new disc if over a certain size must be provided with the correct software to avoid problems.

Automan.


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

I've experienced the same thing. I'm seeing it go round in a loop between Powering Up and a Green Screen abd then a Yellow screen, saying leave it 24 hours and if that does not work call customer support.

Has anyone seen it actually recover itself ?

Mark


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

When the GSOD is unable to complete it reboots. 

If it does this continually then either the swap is too small or you have serious MFS corruption that is too bad for the GSOD to fix. 

I've never seen a drive recover from a GSOD-reboot-GSOD loop without intervention, and only then if was just a missing swap that could be replaced/re-initialised.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

DiFontaine said:


> *keeps repeating every few minutes or so*


Sounds like the classic mfs tools swap issue to me. His drive could be fine after a new image is applied.


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

blindlemon said:


> When the GSOD is unable to complete it reboots.
> 
> If it does this continually then either the swap is too small or you have serious MFS corruption that is too bad for the GSOD to fix.
> 
> I've never seen a drive recover from a GSOD-reboot-GSOD loop without intervention, and only then if was just a missing swap that could be replaced/re-initialised.


Thanks for the reply, if I try this, what happens to the recordings on the drives, will they still be available ?


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

To fix the swap if it hasn't been initialised:

Boot from from the lba48 cd

/# copykern

select option 1 (series 1 direcTivo 2.5.2)


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

Would I still take this option if my drives are > 137GB ? I have a 160GB and a 200GB drive.

Mark


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Yes, _all _ UK tivos use that option, regardless of drive size.

all tivo drives > 127Gb should have run copykern in the past anyway.

Copykern installs an updated kernel on tivo to support large drives > 127Gb
The program _also _ initializes the swap file, as mfsrestore often doesn't make a good job of that with larger swap files.


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

Thankyou, will attempt this either Monday or Tuesday. Plan to take the Tivo to work and take it apart in the lab, stuff the primary disk into a spare Linux machine and boot from the CD.

Still not clear if my recordings will be lost or not ?

Mark


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Running copykern doesn't affect anything except the kernel and the swap, so normally it will have no effect on your recordings. 

However, if your problem is due to MFS corruption rather than a missing/invalid swap then I'm afraid your recordings are probably toast.


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

Why do you suggest Copykern over Tpip?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Copykern is just a script that runs tpip


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## ciper (Nov 4, 2004)

Yay Im a noob. (off to find a copy of the script to see what makes it different)


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Nothing much - it's just easier than typing the tpip command parameters..


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

repair underway right now, looking good so far. We plan to take a backup of the disk image, and then run the repair commands.

More when it's complete.

Thanks for the help so far.

Mark


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

Completed, has worked without an error. Need to take it home and connect it up to the TV to see if I have all my recordings.
I have not yet turned it on.


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

No change at all, same symptoms, almost as if we had not done any of the above actions.

Suggestions as to what to do next would be good ?

Mark


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

What did you actually do? Just copykern?

If that's the case then you probably have unfixable MFS corruption and will need to re-configure from a fresh image.


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

We took a backup of the image, and then ran copykern.

As I have a 200GB Primary and a 160GB Secondary, my colleague who is a Linux expert has drawn up a plan. 

Personally, if I have lost the recordings, now may be the right time to go to a Network card and a single large drive, however, I am not happy about paying a £70 premium for a prepped drive, when a 400GB unit goes for under £50.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

If you don't want to pay for a prepped drive from anywhere, 
get an image from the end of this thread and follow steve conrad's guide


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

ukcobra said:


> when a 400GB unit goes for under £50.


Where can you get a 400gb *Samsung* drive for under £50 delivered? I'd love to know 

With a pre-configured drive you are paying not only for the configuration but also for:-

1. Testing (up to 2 hours with a 400gb drive)
2. Development work that went into the customised image
3. A warranty
6. Step by step installation instructions
5. Next day delivery

Of course, not all the above apply to all pre-configured drives. Some come with no warranty, some with no testing etc. etc - but on the whole you get what you pay for.

If you prefer to DIY then all the tools are out there but you have to do all the work and you take responsibility for testing and fixing any issues yourself.

A halfway-house might be something like the UK equivalent of InstantCake (which forum rules prevent me from naming)


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I think blindlemon refers to the UK equivalent of Instant Cake with a name that could easily be mistaken for an alcoholic beverage and that can be found at www.tivoheaven.co.uk

However with the level of Linux knowledge that you and your work friend collectively seem to have then I'm sure you ought to be able to do the upgrade yourself. Blindlemon's service is worth it though for those who shudder at the thought of DIY or the use of obscure computer command line interfaces.

Eclipse computers currently has the 400Gb Samsungs for £59.34 plus delivery.

See www.eclipsecomputers.com/product.aspx?code=HDS-400LD&af=50

For under £50 you either have to make do with 250Gb or wait another 6 months for prices to fall further.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

To be fair, Hinsdale's guide was also a quite a few years ago now, when all this was new,
and it was the first comprehensive guide after all.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> To be fair, Hinsdale's guide was also a quite a few years ago now, when all this was new, and it was the first comprehensive guide after all.


Agreed but it was definitely written with the techno geek and not the lay person who just loves television programs in mind.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

ukcobra:
There are ways of recovering recordings from a drive that won't boot up, 
but its well into the realms of the linux gods in the other place


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

I was n't specifically calling out a Samsung Drive at under £50, however, a few weeks ago I was in Frys in Sunnyvale and picked up a Seagate 250GB IDE with 5 years warranty for $49/£25. The 400GB ones were a little more expensive.

I appreicate there is and should be a premium to pay for the additional support for the Tivo in the UK. Considering the drive retails for £60, I was not expecting a 100% markup.

Still unsure what path to go, it would make sense to put a network card in and backup the images. This is not the first time I have lost all recordings in the 4 years of Tivo ownership.

The last time I had a problem like this, the WD boot drive failed, and the original seller of the Tivo replaced it under warranty.

More Linux investiagions tomorrow. Thanks for everyone's comments and help.

Mark


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ukcobra said:


> I was n't specifically calling out a Samsung Drive at under £50, however, a few weeks ago I was in Frys in Sunnyvale and picked up a Seagate 250GB IDE with 5 years warranty for $49/£25. The 400GB ones were a little more expensive.


The 250GB Samsung is about £38 in the UK.

Its not worth shipping drives from the US because if Parcelforce UK decides to charge you their customs duty payment fee (£12 or so) and you are charged VAT and customs duty on the estimated parcel value it costs as much as the US price plus you have to wait ages for it to arrive more often than not (due to the detention and ransoming at customs).

I agree Tivoheaven's prices are not cheap and unless you can't do the upgrade yourself or are a very busy person it works out better to do your own upgrade.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

You get what you pay for - although for 400gb drives my prices are actually NOT the most expensive 

However, if you really want cheap there's a guy on eBay who also sells orang utan mousemats who will sell you an apparently untested drive of unspecified brand with no warranty for peanuts...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> However, if you really want cheap there's a guy on eBay who also sells orang utan mousemats who will sell you an apparently untested drive of unspecified brand with no warranty for peanuts...


Surely under UK trading standards law he is still forced to take it back if it is "not fit for the purpose"?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Maybe, but wouldn't you rather pay a couple of quid extra for a proper warranty? Chances are the eBay guy would tell you to send it back to the manufacturer for a replacement...

Even the most reliable drives - eg. Samsung or Seagate - occasionally fail within the first year, regardless of the amount of pre-testing. That weeds out the DOA or totally flaky ones that have been damaged in transit, but there is still a tiny percentage that just can't cope with the 24x7 thrashing they get in a TiVo. 

If a drive of mine fails within the year then it is replaced with a new one, fully configured to the same spec as the original. Period.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Maybe, but wouldn't you rather pay a couple of quid extra for a proper warranty?


A couple of quid of course.

But I thought the difference was rather a lot more than that.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I'm not going to get sucked into that debate again 

Actually, the difference is only a few quid for 250gb drives at the moment. A bit more for 400gb and 160gb but then he doesn't say what make his are and - deliberately IMHO - uses a photo of the _underside_ of the drive so you can't tell....


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> A bit more for 400gb and 160gb but then he doesn't say what make his are and - deliberately IMHO - uses a photo of the _underside_ of the drive so you can't tell....


So almost bound to be Western Digital, Maxtor or Hitachi then.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Oh dear, I realise you make a living from this, but there's no need to throw out unfounded accusations:



blindlemon said:


> there's a guy on eBay who also sells orang utan mousemats who will sell you an _apparently untested drive _ of _unspecified brand _ with _no warranty _ for peanuts...
> 
> Chances are the eBay guy would tell you to send it back to the manufacturer for a replacement...
> 
> he doesn't say what make his are and - deliberately IMHO - uses a photo of the underside of the drive so you can't tell....


Yes, I AM THE EBAY SELLER.

YES, they are all *tested* in a tivo before shipping

YES, the 250GB and 400GB are *SAMSUNG * drives

YES they have *full warranty*, and yes, I will replace them myself,
though have only had to do so once or twice (have sold many more locally / on website than on ebay).


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

Sorry, I did n't intend to trigger this type of discussion. Can we get back to the technicallities ?

The Green Screen of Death remains. Do I rebuild or swap the drives ? If I choose to rebuild, where can I find instructions to rebuild with two disks ?

Mark


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

mikerr said:


> I *used * to have more respect for you than this.


Sorry to disappoint you. Nothing personal intended. 


mikerr said:


> there's no need to throw out unfounded accusations


Sorry, but they were assumptions, not accusactions, and were only based on the fact that *none *of the information you have now volunteered was mentioned in your eBay listing.

What would you expect me to say (based on your previous respect for me)?

_"There's a seller on eBay, who doesn't say what make his drives are or whether they have been tested or come with a warranty - but I'm sure he's a decent chap and they will probably be Samsung drives, fully tested with a full no-quibble warranty which he's just forgotten to mention"._

Would you?

For the record, I had *no way* of knowing who the eBay seller was - and for the record, you *do* also sell orang utan mousemats 

Peace! After all, we're the guys keeping TiVo alive in the UK


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

ukcobra said:


> The Green Screen of Death remains. Do I rebuild or swap the drives ? If I choose to rebuild, where can I find instructions to rebuild with two disks ?


Swap the two old drives for a single large drive. Two drives are more likely to fail than one etc. etc...


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

See www.mfslive.org/softwareguidep4.htm


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

blindlemon said:


> Peace! After all, we're the guys keeping TiVo alive in the UK


Yeah, OK - normal service resumed 

Group hug ?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Eeew!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Isn't competition a wonderful thing when markets are properly competitive.

Mike any chance you can order up 30 of the Tivo S3 glo remotes and start knocking them out a few quid cheaper than a certain other UK retailer.

As a hint no one is yet importing the newly released white Tivo S3 remote and these actually seem to match better with our UK silver Tivos.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Yes, I AM THE EBAY SELLER.
> 
> YES, they are all *tested* in a tivo before shipping
> 
> ...


Assuming that you are mrtechshop your 160Gb drive upgrades look rather a bargain, unless you have managed to get hold of an especially cheap source of 160Gb drives. Seems you are only charging £20 or so labour. Whereas on the 400Gb drive you are charging around £50 labour. What make are the 160Gb drives?

In the interests of competition I am sure that mentioning your use of Samsung drives for 250Gb and 400Gb drive upgrades would help further improve your sales efforts.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

I don't plan on importing remotes just yet, sorry.
I have a nice volume deal on HDDs through my company,
but for remotes we'd all be ordering from the same source wouldn't we?

The 160Gb drives are branded maxtor, but are actually a seagate single-platter design.
Much of maxtor's (and hitachi's) past problems came from being multiple platter drives and therefore hotter and noisier.

All 250Gb and 400Gb drives are samsung - for the £2 or so price difference its not worth using anything else.

Not being drawn on profit margins  but that sub £50 price point is important if only to get people onto mode0 
- many dump tivo due to picture quality issues without even trying mode0,
as they have to buy a network/cachecard first and also get their hands dirty with linux. 

I've been amazed at the number of emails from people unaware their tivo's could even use freeview or sky .... they'd just been using the analogue tuner


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> but for remotes we'd all be ordering from the same source wouldn't we?


At the moment buying from 9th Tee seems to be the only option in the UK unless anyone can persuade the Tivo merchandise people to do a deal with them as an official UK importer.



> Not being drawn on profit margins  but that sub £50 price point is important if only to get people onto mode0 - many dump tivo due to picture quality issues without even trying mode0,as they have to buy a network/cachecard first and also get their hands dirty with linux.


I agree with you that there are many people who have perfectly happily been using 40 hours on an unmodified Tivo and then finally had the Quantum hard drive(s) fail. And many of them are paying a monthly sub, which now causes them genuine financial pain when they think of Tivo.

If you can get these lower paid month to month budgeters back in business for only £50, while also making £25 or so on each upgrade I'm sure its probably still worth doing. The main hassle must be the post and packing. Also by this level of pricing you stimulate a professional upgrade market that did not previously exist. Therefore you are not taking any customers away from Blindlemon. Unless that is he decides he is also prepared to support the budget conscious customer at a lower rate per hour as you clearly are. 



> I've been amazed at the number of emails from people unaware their tivo's could even use freeview or sky .... they'd just been using the analogue tuner


The failure of many people to read the instruction manual or look at Google etc never ceases to amaze one.

Having said that the original Tivo UK marketing did make it seem like a Sky Digital set top box was the only external one that was supported.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> At the moment buying from 9th Tee seems to be the only option in the UK


I assume you meant the only *other* option?


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

I can think of at least 3 vendors in the UK that sell Cachecards online.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ukcobra said:


> I can think of at least 3 vendors in the UK that sell Cachecards online.


What I meant was that www.9thtee.com is the only place that tivoheaven, tivoland and the ebay seller from Northern Ireland are able to source the product from the US in order to import it.

I am unclear whether www.9thtee.com and www.silicondust.com either are or are not part of one and the same and commercial operation?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> I assume you meant the only *other* option?


There have been several UK resellers who have imported them from 9thTee.

I'm sure you don't want me to mention the cheapest one who usually sells them on Ebay.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

We were talking about Glo remotes, not cachecards


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> We were talking about Glo remotes, not cachecards


It was ukcobra who introduced the Cachecard issue and not me.

Either way we are now way off topic compared to the thread title of severe green screen failure and its probable origins in a likely faulty hard drive.


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

Sorry, back to topic. The Tivo is back in the lab, and we are having trouble restoring the image we made on Monday. The original disks were 200GB and 160GB, and I am replacing it with a 400GB one. The error we are getting is saying that the image is too big for the drive. Currently investigating why this could be happening.

Any ideas ?


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Too many partitions to fit on a single drive. You need to make a divorced backup with the -s option.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Either way we are now way off topic


Glad you noticed


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Too many partitions to fit on a single drive.


Would www.mfslive.org help to overcome this?


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

We are doing a backup and restore to try and preserve thre recordings, it's a 335107 MB image and will take around 20 hours to complete. More tomorrow.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

How many partitions do you have used? Run 

mfsinfo /dev/hdX /dev/hdY

against your two existing drives to check. If it says the drive can be expanded 3 times then you have a chance as you have used 3 partitions and the mfslive CD (with the -F option) may be able to force an expansion of the last one. If mfsinfo says the drive can be expanded 2 times then you have 4 partitions already so will have to ditch the recordings or restore to two drives rather than one.


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Would www.mfslive.org help to overcome this?


I downloaded the image, but it would stop loading after the mouse driver. Not sure why, we went back to the previous restore method. I should know by 9am tomorrow how it went.

Mark


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## ukcobra (Jun 2, 2004)

Ok, after 20 hours of disk activity, the new drive does not go past the Grey Powering up screen.

Do I need to get a new image from somewhere ?

Mark


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