# Safe Hydra Upgrade / Downgrade option



## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

So we know that TiVo has both an upgrade and downgrade option, but the downgrade will require you to reset the system - losing all your recordings and settings.

If you want to safely try out Hydra without the risk - use a spare hard drive.

Grab a free hard drive (most of us have stacks of them laying around) pop it in the TiVo and run it through set-up. You can then use it for a few days just to see if you can live with the new experience. 

If yes, throw the old drive back in and upgrade. 
If no, downgrade* the tivo and then throw the old drive back in and use it like you left it.

Kind of the beauty of how easy it is to upgrade these boxes.

* I assume you need to downgrade the old drive so that TiVo servers don't automatically upgrade you drive after you re-install it.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

bradleys said:


> So we know that TiVo has both an upgrade and downgrade option, but the downgrade will require you to reset the system - losing all your recordings and settings.
> 
> If you want to safely try out Hydra without the risk - use a spare hard drive.
> 
> ...


This will not work at least on Bolts, changing hard drives results in loss of shows. Example: You pull working drive out put another in go through setup and a few days latter the drive fails, you put first drive back in, you will no longer have access to any shows you recorded on it.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Really? That blows my mind... Why wouldn't the Roamio / Bolt just boot up into a fully operating system drive like it was never removed? It must "register" the drive that has been installed in some way?

Well, that is very interesting. I hadn't read that before, do you know what context this was tested by any chance?


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

It may cause loss of cable card pairing. This may only affect premium channels depending on the provider. I have done this on two Roamio boxes.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

bradleys said:


> Really? That blows my mind... Why wouldn't the Roamio / Bolt just boot up into a fully operating system drive like it was never removed? It must "register" the drive that has been installed in some way?
> 
> Well, that is very interesting. I hadn't read that before, do you know what context this was tested by any chance?


My response is from the people who had setup their Bolts to use a 3.5 inch external drive (to replace the internal 2.5 inch drive) via a Sata to eSata cable. One of the resent updates broke these setups, the solution was to use a Sata cable from the mother board to the external drive (by passing the external drive case except for power). However several people re-installed the original drives to make sure their units were working and found out about loosing all recording when ever you switch drives.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

also the upgrades tied to TSN of the box so will it even matter what version is on which drive as soon as you make a call if you have a different disk in the upgrade hits it.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Because the bolt actually stores it’s system on nonvolatile internal ram. This is why swapping drives is so easy peasy.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

JACKASTOR said:


> Because the bolt actually stores it's system on nonvolatile internal ram. This is why swapping drives is so easy peasy.


And that is why I suggested this as an option - that if you downgraded before putting the original drive back into the TiVo it would reboot just as normal.

But, if it is registering the drive in some way and doesn't recognize it - then you are correct, it would just initiate the reformat process.

Very interesting - I am surprised I hadn't seen this discussed before now.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

bradleys said:


> And that is why I suggested this as an option - that if you downgraded before putting the original drive back into the TiVo it would reboot just as normal.
> But, if it is registering the drive in some way and doesn't recognize it - then you are correct, it would just initiate the reformat process.
> Very interesting - I am surprised I hadn't seen this discussed before now.


When a virgin drive is installed in a basic Roamio, it formats the drive. Checking the drive storage space, there is 3 hours used. I'll speculate that something is written to that space besides the tuner buffers.


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

Yes that's true. but if you take it out with out downgrading hydra to put the drive in presumably you will still have hydra and it may erase the shows. But if you downgrade and then reinstall the old HDD than you would be good. So I think your almost right and not 100% sure really one way or the other.


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## PSU_Sudzi (Jun 4, 2015)

bradleys said:


> So we know that TiVo has both an upgrade and downgrade option, but the downgrade will require you to reset the system - losing all your recordings and settings.
> 
> If you want to safely try out Hydra without the risk - use a spare hard drive.
> 
> ...


Really the best thing to do would be to offload your shows using something like KMTTG to a computer, upgrade, then decide if you like it or not. You can't do that obviously for copy protected shows but at least it wouldn't be a total loss.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

JoeKustra said:


> When a virgin drive is installed in a basic Roamio, it formats the drive. Checking the drive storage space, there is 3 hours used. I'll speculate that something is written to that space besides the tuner buffers.


do you know can a virgin drive see the TSN at all?


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Really the best thing to do would be to offload your shows using something like KMTTG to a computer, upgrade, then decide if you like it or not. You can't do that obviously for copy protected shows but at least it wouldn't be a total loss.


or even to another TiVo in the home... that way you can copy them back easily enough with the limitations as your stated about CP Shows.......


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

PSU_Sudzi said:


> Really the best thing to do would be to offload your shows using something like KMTTG to a computer, upgrade, then decide if you like it or not. You can't do that obviously for copy protected shows but at least it wouldn't be a total loss.


The only issue being, the time it takes, depending on your setup, WiFi robustness if using WiFi, and amount of shows. Plus, there always can be issues with transfers (sigh, technology).


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

ajwees41 said:


> do you know can a virgin drive see the TSN at all?


No clue. I stopped watching sector data a long time ago.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Or the DOWNGRADE option would retreat to the previous (non-Hydra) UI with the settings that were in effect being restored, but apparently most (or all) of the software engineers at TiVo/ROVI are ex Microsoft employees where a simple, easy, and painless retreat to a previous version of any thing Microsoft wrote is against company policy (just kidding).

If the DOWNGRADE option doesn't work as it should what makes anyone think that Hydra will and when one realizes that they want to go back then we end users have to do the work? To hell with that!


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## JACKASTOR (May 26, 2011)

just4tivo said:


> Or the DOWNGRADE option would retreat to the previous (non-Hydra) UI with the settings that were in effect being restored, but apparently most (or all) of the software engineers at TiVo/ROVI are ex Microsoft employees where a simple, easy, and painless retreat to a previous version of any thing Microsoft wrote is against company policy (just kidding).
> 
> If the DOWNGRADE option doesn't work as it should what makes anyone think that Hydra will and when one realizes that they want to go back then we end users have to do the work?


There is that.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

What Tivo is saying is that there is no direct path to downgrade. You can only reset your system back to gen3 - but that will obviously overwrite any recordings / one passes you have.

It is pretty simple to grab kmttg and copy all the recording to a local computer and save off your one pass settings. Then once you reset your Tivo copy everything back...

I was just looking for an option that was a little more seemless...

I am intrigued by the suggestion that the Tivo will not recognize the old HD when you put it back into the Tivo - but this is the first I have heard of this. It is possible, but just wondering if this has been confirmed or just assumed.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

bradleys said:


> I am intrigued by the suggestion that the Tivo will not recognize the old HD when you put it back into the Tivo - but this is the first I have heard of this. It is possible, but just wondering if this has been confirmed or just assumed.


It's been talked about before, not really on this thread, but regarding other things. The most recent I remember is when the 20.7.2 release broke sata on motherboard to esata external. I didn't know about it either until that discussion. Folks connected back their original 500GB drive (before they knew what was wrong) to confirm the unit worked, then when they figured out the problem was the esata transition and used a long sata cable, the shows went away. Folks that waited and didn't connect back their original drive, were able to use a long sata cable directly to the sata interface on the drive and all their shows were still there.


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## CaseyJ (Apr 26, 2017)

atmuscarella said:


> This will not work at least on Bolts, changing hard drives results in loss of shows. Example: You pull working drive out put another in go through setup and a few days latter the drive fails, you put first drive back in, you will no longer have access to any shows you recorded on it.


There was some discussion that the deleted shows were there and recoverable. I'd like to confirm this, but I have too much on my Bolt to try it.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

CaseyJ said:


> There was some discussion that the deleted shows were there and recoverable. I'd like to confirm this, but I have too much on my Bolt to try it.


I didn't see that anyone mentioned they were recoverable. Some people may have theorized they were recoverable. I did see people mention that you could recover from the 4 blinking lights after 20.7.2 (4 blinking lights usually means hard drive failure) and the way you did that was to replace the motherboard sata->esata->drive sata connection with motherboard sata->drive sata.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

bradleys said:


> It is pretty simple to grab kmttg and copy all the recording to a local computer and save off your one pass settings. Then once you reset your Tivo copy everything back...


Not so simple if you run OSX 10.6 (because it does what you need) which will not run Java 8 and prevents me from running KMTTG.

So, why should I have to upgrade OSX to a version that will hamstring my Mac, but will run Java 8, or buy a Windows PC (God forbid... and I'm an old Windows user) to run KMTTG so I can work around the stupid upgrade/downgrade that TiVo offers that does not work?

*Why should we do the work and bear the expense to make a service work that we pay to have work*?


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

just4tivo said:


> *Why should we do the work and bear the expense to make a service work that we pay to have work*?


Don't upgrade to Hydra. Then you won't have any chance of wanting to downgrade, thus there won't be any extra work.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

sfhub said:


> Don't upgrade to Hydra. Then you won't have any chance of wanting to downgrade, thus there won't be any extra work.


It's not a question of EXTRA work. It's a question of why we should do anything but click to retreat to the GUI that works.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

just4tivo said:


> It's not a question of EXTRA work. It's a question of why we should do anything but click to retreat to the GUI that works.


One should be happy that reversion even is possible--it seemingly, originally, wasn't going to be. (But, of course, it would be nice if shows weren't lost with reversion--I don't know the tech. reasons behind this.) Also, more extra work for you, because you chose to have a Mac, and Apple chose not to support Java, which is needed for KMTTG, which is freeware generously developed and supported for use.

I don't have a Mac and so don't know, but will pyTivo Desktop support your Mac OS?


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

just4tivo said:


> It's not a question of EXTRA work. It's a question of why we should do anything but click to retreat to the GUI that works.


Both GUIs *work*, it is a question of what you like. And clicking is all you have to do to revert to the old GUI.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

idksmy said:


> And clicking is all you have to do to revert to the old GUI.


With the default settings and all your recordings gone. Now that's software at its best and programming at its worst.

For those of you who accept that you exist for the convenience of a service you pay for rather than the service existing for those who pay I support your right to be guided into whatever the company chooses to provide. Jerry Garcia said... "I been down so long it looks like up to me". Was there TiVo back then?

In short order we'll see know Hydra is received by those who choose to go boldly where none have gone before.
Then we'll see if the downgrade works and at exactly what cost for those who are not satisfied.

I have no doubt that TiVo/ROVI will ram Hydra down the throat of those who don't want it in due time while we discuss the philosophy of whether the company knows what's best and what we want while the guide and channel info is still screwed
and they have reduced support to even lower levels of competence.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

If you are so mad at Tivo get another brand DVR. Whining here accomplished nothing.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

just4tivo said:


> With the default settings and all your recordings gone. Now that's software at its best and programming at its worst.
> 
> For those of you who accept that you exist for the convenience of a service you pay for rather than the service existing for those who pay I support your right to be guided into whatever the company chooses to provide. Jerry Garcia said... "I been down so long it looks like up to me". Was there TiVo back then?
> 
> ...


<sigh>


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## CaseyJ (Apr 26, 2017)

sfhub said:


> I didn't see that anyone mentioned they were recoverable. Some people may have theorized they were recoverable. I did see people mention that you could recover from the 4 blinking lights after 20.7.2 (4 blinking lights usually means hard drive failure) and the way you did that was to replace the motherboard sata->esata->drive sata connection with motherboard sata->drive sata.


This may have been where I saw that. No that I reread it, I see he may not have meant after the drive was reinstalled.

"Forgoodness sake, I could undelete every program I manually deleted for the last 6 months."


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## CaseyJ (Apr 26, 2017)

Latest Software Update Broke my Hard eSATA Drive Hack on Bolt


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

bradleys said:


> And that is why I suggested this as an option - that if you downgraded before putting the original drive back into the TiVo it would reboot just as normal.
> 
> But, if it is registering the drive in some way and doesn't recognize it - then you are correct, it would just initiate the reformat process.
> 
> Very interesting - I am surprised I hadn't seen this discussed before now.


It has been, awhile back. I tried using MFSTools to copy a Bolt drive. It did not work. When I put in the original untouched drive back in all the recordings got wiped. While I had the Bolt open I tried swapping 3 drives around, every time a different drive was put in it got wiped (at least recordings wise, some settings remained but they were kind of messed up). One of the things I DON'T like about the Bolt, no sense in keeping a backup, it will just get wiped and you can't copy/expand. I don't think that is true with Roamio, it has less on the flash drive. To be honest other than 4K (which I'm not using at this time anyway), I far prefer the Roamio to the Bolt, this problem (not being able to copy/expand/keep a backup), 2.5" drive, only a few models seem to work for upgrades, I've used many different 3.5" drives in Roamios/Premieres/S3s, and I don't really like "snaps" to open case (though the Basic Roamio does have that), I like screws where I don't have to worry about breaking tabs.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

sfhub said:


> Don't upgrade to Hydra. Then you won't have any chance of wanting to downgrade, thus there won't be any extra work.


I doubt I will. I really don't like "talking" to electronics. Phone calls to customer service etc, I hated all the push this/push that menus but I FAR prefer that to the new voice response systems. People "talking" to their phones, devices, now Tivos, maybe it's just me but it makes me feel like an idiot addressing a piece of electronics like it's a person. I SUPPOSE if Tivo offers any more transfers of service to new devices I may try it with a fresh device but I doubt I would like it.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

just4tivo said:


> It's not a question of EXTRA work. It's a question of why we should do anything but click to retreat to the GUI that works.


Let me ask you a different way. What if TiVo had come out and said the Hydra UI is only available for TiVo Bolt Vox and only they can upgrade or downgrade?

Then your situation would be unchanged from a week ago and you would be oblivious to the less than ideal (but far from worst case) downgrade scenario.

It seems by giving you a choice, then not giving you ideal downgrade scenarios, they made you unhappy, but if they never gave you a choice, it either would have been better, or you would have been upset they didn't give you a choice.

If the former, just pretend you don't have a choice and be happy.

BTW there are plenty of upgrades that only go one direction.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

I'm assuming that the older UI will be abandoned and Hydra will be their focus going forward. (i.e., they will provide bug fixes for the current generation UI, but no new features and will eventually stop updating the current UI)


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Didn't I see a video a long time ago that showed an in-depth look at the Hydra interface? Does anyone have that link?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found it.

Overview available here:

Tivo's Next Generation User Experience - Demo


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

geekmedic said:


> I'm assuming that the older UI will be abandoned and Hydra will be their focus going forward. (i.e., they will provide bug fixes for the current generation UI, but no new features and will eventually stop updating the current UI)


If they leave it in a stable state, not doing updates could be a good thing. No new features, but no new bugs.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

geekmedic said:


> I'm assuming that the older UI will be abandoned and Hydra will be their focus going forward. (i.e., they will provide bug fixes for the current generation UI, but no new features and will eventually stop updating the current UI)


I believe that TiVo Ted posted here that Hydra indeed will be the forward focus, but I don't believe that he went so far as to state that the current UI will be "abandoned" (but I understand your drift). (I tried to find his earlier post, but haven't been able to.)


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> I believe that TiVo Ted posted here that Hydra indeed will be the forward focus, but I don't believe that he went so far as to state that the current UI will be "abandoned" (but I understand your drift). *(I tried to find his earlier post, but haven't been able to.)*


Tivo Vox boxes launch/available October 29th



TiVo_Ted said:


> ...
> Gen4 is where we will be placing a majority of our effort for new features and functionality going forward.
> ...


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

bradleys said:


> I am intrigued by the suggestion that the Tivo will not recognize the old HD when you put it back into the Tivo - but this is the first I have heard of this. It is possible, but just wondering if this has been confirmed or just assumed.


There have been a number of posts on this in the Bolt forum and I think a few in the Upgrade forums.



CaseyJ said:


> There was some discussion that the deleted shows were there and recoverable. I'd like to confirm this, but I have too much on my Bolt to try it.


I've not seen anything that indicated they were recoverable once the Bolt reinitialized the drive.

Scott


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

idksmy said:


> If you are so mad at Tivo get another brand DVR. Whining here accomplished nothing.


Yeah, there's just SO MANY options to pick from when you want to watch CP'd stuff. 

Requiring a box reset to downgrade is just beyond stupid, but I expect no less from this company now.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Mikeguy said:


> I believe that TiVo Ted posted here that Hydra indeed will be the forward focus, but I don't believe that he went so far as to state that the current UI will be "abandoned" (but I understand your drift). (I tried to find his earlier post, but haven't been able to.)


If the SD UI is any measure, they kept that environment alive for years after the release of the HDUI. I suspect you will be able to keep the Gen3 UI for quite a while - just do not look for any updates.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah, there's just SO MANY options to pick from when you want to watch CP'd stuff.
> 
> Requiring a box reset to downgrade is just beyond stupid, but I expect no less from this company now.


If we understood correctly, they were not going to allow a downgrade at all, I think this is a compromize. We need to accept that this is a complete technical re-platforming of the system - not just a UI draw.

Some of you will complain, but instead of being annoyed, just wait before you upgrade and let the whole thing mature a little bit.

At least you cannot say you weren't fully educated.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

bradleys said:


> If we understood correctly, they were not going to allow a downgrade at all, I think this is a compromize. We need to accept that this is a complete technical re-platforming of the system - not just a UI draw.
> 
> Some of you will complain, but instead of being annoyed, just wait before you upgrade and let the whole thing mature a little bit.
> 
> At least you cannot say you weren't fully educated.


they are allowing downgrades but will like a new tivo no recordings saved


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

ajwees41 said:


> they are allowing downgrades but will like a new tivo no recordings saved


I am fully aware of that. I am just saying that TiVo isn't forcing you to migrate to the new UI, and they likely won't force you to migrate for quite some time.

That said, you also will not likely see any new features - the HDUI is baselined and code complete.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

slowbiscuit said:


> Yeah, there's just SO MANY options to pick from when you want to watch CP'd stuff.
> 
> Requiring a box reset to downgrade is just beyond stupid, but I expect no less from this company now.


And so, as I understand it, you're upset with and (maligning) TiVo because it developed a whole new UI/user experience, including voice control, which didn't exist when you purchased your TiVo box and which you never were promised, which TiVo is now making available to you freely, without charge, and totally optionally while still supporting the UI currently on your box, and as to which TiVo further has developed and is making available to you the ability to revert back to the current UI after trying the new UI, should you wish to do so (albeit, without the ability to keep your settings and shows (although you can copy shows off your box before trying the new UI), which I agree would have been the optimal situation and great to have--but I don't know the engineering complications behind this all), again all at no charge and optionally?

OK.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> And so, as I understand it, you're upset with and (maligning) TiVo because it developed a whole new UI/user experience, including voice control, which didn't exist when you purchased your TiVo box and which you never were promised, which TiVo is now making available to you freely, without charge, and totally optionally while still supporting the UI currently on your box, and as to which TiVo further has developed and is making available to you the ability to revert back to the current UI after trying the new UI, should you wish to do so (albeit, without the ability to keep your settings and shows (although you can copy shows off your box before trying the new UI), which I agree would have been the optimal situation and great to have--but I don't know the engineering complications behind this all), again all at no charge and optionally?
> 
> OK.


Have another glass of Kool-Aid Mike


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

idksmy said:


> If you are so mad at Tivo get another brand DVR. Whining here accomplished nothing.


So disagreement = whining?

I apologize for not sharing your Pollyanna view that every TiVo, and now ROVI, cloud has a silver lining when past (and current) experience has shown otherwise for some (many).

It's really a question of how little you'll accept for what you pay for and businesses now days rely on the consumer apathy you champion to continue to lower product, support, and service quality while raising our prices.

If TiVo owners voted with their wallets, instead of lemming-like blind allegiance, we'd all have correct guide, channels, and program info.

Not whining... just FACT.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

idksmy said:


> If you are so mad at Tivo get another brand DVR. Whining here accomplished nothing.


What DVR would you suggest for people with cable (like Comcast) or people who have dishes? Tivo is the best, even in spite of Tivo, Inc/Rovi/WHATEVER...

I would love to have a dish if there was perfect signal weather always (and did not live in a condo where Basic Comcast and HBO come with the maintenance). Satellite video is so much better than cable.

Also remember, many of us do not give them any money since they sucked the life out of us thru their tivo units and monthly charges/LS.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

just4tivo said:


> Have another glass of Kool-Aid Mike


No, thanks, I'll leave that to the "I'm entitled" generation.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

Mikeguy said:


> One should be happy that reversion even is possible--it seemingly, originally, wasn't going to be. (But, of course, it would be nice if shows weren't lost with reversion--I don't know the tech. reasons behind this.)


It's NOT a reversion, it's a "system reset". I can't believe they even have the nerve to call it a "downgrade" (oops, I forgot what company we were talking about for a second...).

Too bad it can't be upgraded just on a Mini or a XL4, but seriously, I leave my XL4 in SD mode since I just use it as storage and with MOCA, recordings play fine from my Roamio Pro or Mini. It's way too slow in HD mode to do anything (and thats with no cable card in it).


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

just4tivo said:


> So disagreement = whining?
> 
> I apologize for not sharing your Pollyanna view that every TiVo, and now ROVI, cloud has a silver lining when past (and current) experience has shown otherwise for some (many).
> 
> ...


Very good point. Except that you aren't paying for Hydra and don't have to use it.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> No, thanks, I'll leave that to the "I'm entitled" generation.


I believe we're of the same generation and you've obviously had enough Kool-Aid already.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

samccfl99 said:


> *It's NOT a reversion, it's a "system reset". *I can't believe they even have the nerve to call it a "downgrade" (oops, I forgot what company we were talking about for a second...).
> 
> Too bad it can't be upgraded just on a Mini or a XL4, but seriously, I leave my XL4 in SD mode since I just use it as storage and with MOCA, recordings play fine from my Roamio Pro or Mini. It's way too slow in HD mode to do anything (and thats with no cable card in it).


Great. Whatever the words, you don't have to do it, either way (either "upgrading" or "downgrading")--and you still have the TiVo box you bought.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

just4tivo said:


> I believe we're of the same generation and you've obviously had enough Kool-Aid already.


Nope--there's a difference between Kool-Aid and realism/non-unrealistic-entitledism.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> Very good point. Except that you aren't paying for Hydra and don't have to use it.


I've paid for everything that TiVo/ROVI is doing to me and there is EVERY likelihood that Hydra will be jammed down everyone's throats at some point... like it or not.

A company that is interested in nudging its customer base in a direction it has chosen, for whatever reason, will provide for a seamless retreat to the past version if it is interested in keeping its customers.

The "downgrade" from trying Hydra that TiVo has provided is like having backup software that DOES NOT RESTORE.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> Nope--there's a difference between Kool-Aid and realism/non-unrealistic-entitledism.


I yield to your mastery of insulting adjectives, but they are based on Kool-Aid euphoria and not fact or the reality that a dissenting opinion is as valid as yours.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

just4tivo said:


> I've paid for everything that TiVo/ROVI is doing to me and there is EVERY likelihood that Hydra will be jammed down everyone's throats at some point... like it or not.
> 
> A company that is interested in nudging its customer base in a direction it has chosen, for whatever reason, will provide for a seamless retreat to the past version if it is interested in keeping its customers.
> 
> The "downgrade" from trying Hydra that TiVo has provided is like having backup software that DOES NOT RESTORE.


And the fact remains that you didn't pay for Hydra and it is not being forced on you.


just4tivo said:


> I yield to your mastery of insulting adjectives, but they are based on Kool-Aid euphoria and not fact or the reality that a dissenting opinion is as valid as yours.


LOL--it was you who brought up Kool-Aid (repeatedly) and who has gone down that road. And I think that all opinions are fine to state--but then don't get upset and try to be insulting when someone disagrees (in part), pointing out the issues in the opinion, including entitledism and glass-half-empty-ism.


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## just4tivo (Dec 9, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> And the fact remains that you didn't pay for Hydra and it is not being forced on you.
> 
> LOL--it was you who brought up Kool-Aid (repeatedly) and who has gone down that road. And I think that all opinions are fine to state--but then don't get upset and try to be insulting when someone disagrees (in part), pointing out the issues in the opinion, including entitledism and glass-half-empty-ism.


I rest my case


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

just4tivo said:


> there is EVERY likelihood that Hydra will be jammed down everyone's throats at some point... like it or not.


I could see your point if this were true. You are getting bent out of shape over a hypothetical you have convinced yourself is a definite.


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## m.s (Mar 8, 2007)

just4tivo said:


> So disagreement = whining?


Complaining about something you don't like and can't change is whining.


just4tivo said:


> The "downgrade" from trying Hydra that TiVo has provided is like having backup software that DOES NOT RESTORE.


Nope. It's like shipping an OS recovery disc with a PC.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

I absolutely agree that I wish that Hydra could be "undone" if one didn't like it and wished to go back to the current UI, with settings and recordings intact. But for whatever the reason, that isn't what's been put in place--I don't know if there were tech. limits and complications to that, fiscal issues, or what.

Having said that, there's the glass half+ full side: Hydra with voice control is being made available to current Roamio and Bolt box owners easily and at no charge (apart from the purchase of a voice remote, if one wants that functionality)--TiVo instead could have restricted it to Bolt Vox packages, trying to drive replacement box sales that way, or otherwise could have charged for the update (hello, Microsoft Windows, apart from the earlier, limited-time-period free update to Win10). And even though the Hydra reversion option comes at the loss of settings and shows, it's also better than no feasible reversion possibility whatsoever, which had been mentioned as the case earlier this year. IMHO.


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## Anon1 (Sep 26, 2017)

geekmedic said:


> Didn't I see a video a long time ago that showed an in-depth look at the Hydra interface? Does anyone have that link?
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I found it.
> 
> ...


I can't say I care for it. It seems like a lesser version of Apple TV. I would like to stay with the old interface. I hope those that upgrade are happy.


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## Anon1 (Sep 26, 2017)

sfhub said:


> I could see your point if this were true. You are getting bent out of shape over a hypothetical you have convinced yourself is a definite.


Even if it doesn't become definitive, when the inevitable upgrade of hardware happens - after the TiVo Bolt Vox - what do you think the chances are they will still allow people to use the Gen 3 UI? My guess is there will be no choice at that point.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Anon1 said:


> Even if it doesn't become definitive, when the inevitable upgrade of hardware happens - after the TiVo Bolt Vox - what do you think the chances are they will still allow people to use the Gen 3 UI? My guess is there will be no choice at that point.


You may be right, at some future point. And yet, my Toshiba TiVo Series 2 box still runs its Gen 1 or 2 UI.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

Anon1 said:


> Even if it doesn't become definitive, when the inevitable upgrade of hardware happens - after the TiVo Bolt Vox - what do you think the chances are they will still allow people to use the Gen 3 UI? My guess is there will be no choice at that point.


You mean whether you can run Gen 3 on new hardware after Bolt Vox? I agree that might be doubful.

As to whether they'll let you run Gen 3 on older hardware that came with Gen 3, I still have units running Gen 2 even after newer hardware came out that ran Gen 3. Past policies don't guarantee future policies, but there is a real-world example of TiVo doing just what you feel there is no chance for. We shouldn't expect many updates on Gen 3 except maybe some bug fixes. For updated features, you'll need to go to Gen 4, that is not in dispute and stated by TiVo.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't think that Roamios in particular will be forced to run Hydra, after all the Premieres can still run the SD interface right?

I think it's great that Tivo is coming out with a new UI because there are a lot of folks that will like it. I just think it was a dumb technical move to trash recordings on a fallback. I have no issue with having to recreate settings, 1Ps etc. as that is relatively easy to do. Getting all your recordings moved around (and back) is much more of a pain in the ass (and impossible for copy-once stuff), and I wish there was an explanation of exactly what would be changed on recordings to make them incompatible with both UIs. Recordings should work as-is no matter what the UI is.


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## Sptrader (Oct 7, 2017)

I wish Tivo would allow us to revert back to any version that we prefer. I hope that being able to un-do Hydra is a move in that direction. 
Ver 20.7.2 worked great on my Roamio OTA's but 20.7.4 is buggy.. I'd like the option to stay on 20.7.2 (or any other version) for as long as I like, without forced updates.


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## MScottC (Sep 11, 2004)

Sptrader said:


> I wish Tivo would allow us to revert back to any version that we prefer. I hope that being able to un-do Hydra is a move in that direction.
> Ver 20.7.2 worked great on my Roamio OTA's but 20.7.4 is buggy.. I'd like the option to stay on 20.7.2 (or any other version) for as long as I like, without forced updates.


Do you mean like Apple and their iPhone (and I've heard the same about their computers)? When you upgrade the OS, there's absolutely NO going back. Several years ago I upgraded a 2 or 3 year old iPhone and it pretty much bricked it. Still usable, but slow a molasses, it might as well have been an Apple II+ trying to run the latest OS. I tried all sorts of ways, official and unofficial to roll it back one level of OS, and Apple would not let me. 
Work sort of forced me into the iPhone universe, and since for the most part I actually like my iPhone, I stick with it. But you'll never get me to own a Mac, I just refuse to drink their apple juice.

OTOH, TiVo has been very very good to me. And that they're even allowing the downgrades makes them better than Apple.


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## jackstoker (Jul 31, 2017)

MScottC said:


> Do you mean like Apple and their iPhone...


No, like the Channel Master DVR+. Any update that was posted for download can be installed, regardless of which update is installed, and you don't loose any recordings.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> I wish there was an explanation of exactly what would be changed on recordings to make them incompatible with both UIs. Recordings should work as-is no matter what the UI is.


I'm guessing it is some meta-data or database information that changed form during the upgrade that would need to be reverted. Perhaps they don't have time to write something to revert or the transformation during upgrade does not keep enough information to go back.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

But metadata has nothing to do with the actual recording itself - the recording is just a raw stream written to disk AFAIK.


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## sfhub (Jan 6, 2007)

slowbiscuit said:


> But metadata has nothing to do with the actual recording itself - the recording is just a raw stream written to disk AFAIK.


Yes, and that is why you can transfer the recordings off Hydra to another unit, then move them back.

However to revert the OS, you are asking the OS to access Hydra meta-data (unless one writes something to convert it back) The meta-data may be for the show itself. I'm just making this up, but let's say they changed how skip data gets synced to the Close Caption break points and the old OS doesn't understand the new format. Let's say the old OS doesn't react well to data it can't understand. So yeah, technically it could playback the mpg, but it won't get that far because the meta-data it read about the show is in a format it doesn't understand. The quick way to fix things is to reinstall the OS and let it create meta-data that it expects, but that process involves formatting the drives. The more involved way would be to write an app to revert the meta-data back to the previous form, assuming there is enough information in Hydra's meta-data to do that.

This is just conjecture. I have no idea if this is the issue with downgrading that necessitates essentially a re-install.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

They are just being Tivo, Inc/Rovi/Whomever. Why in the world would they change anything to do with the recordings? They are just Lazy and Don't Care. There should be no reason why they could not preserve at least the recordings and associated databases.

Can't wait to see the threads tomorrow. That is IF they get it off the ground. I hope so for all the users that are so desperate to convert into THE UNKNOWN...


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

samccfl99 said:


> They are just being Tivo, Inc/Rovi/Whomever. Why in the world would they change anything to do with the recordings? They are just Lazy and Don't Care. There should be no reason why they could not preserve at least the recordings and associated databases.
> 
> Can't wait to see the threads tomorrow. That is IF they get it off the ground. I hope so for all the users that are so desperate to convert into THE UNKNOWN...


Gotta love someone who lives his signature.


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## samccfl99 (Sep 7, 2013)

idksmy said:


> Gotta love someone who lives his signature.


That signature means not to say something nasty about Someone...Comments about Tivo, Inc are totally within bounds...


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

samccfl99 said:


> That signature means not to say something nasty about Someone...Comments about Tivo, Inc are totally within bounds...


That's right, I forgot, robots write code.


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## johneh1957 (Oct 26, 2017)

I am Very confused,, had TiVo bolt + old software and multiple minis. Ended up with new software on bolt box box after crash of original box. When I connected the 1st 5 minis, they all required software update to work. Just connected another mini and it seems to have the old interface and WORKS?!?! Not sure why this is the case. Is it possible to have minis remain on non-hrdra version? That sure would solve my problems. Then can I downgrade other minis but not main unit. Thx


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## johneh1957 (Oct 26, 2017)

and now very oddly, the 2nd mini connected as well without requiring the download of the new software. SO, any idea's how to downgrade a mini without it seeing that the main box has the new software to get it to work as well?


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## KDragon (Apr 28, 2017)

I just got a new Bolt, to replace my defective one (this is my *second* time replacing a bad Bolt - Grrr.) When I brought it up, it had the new "Tivo Home" UI by default. After living with it for a week, we hate it. I called Tivo and asked if I could revert to the old "Tivo Central" UI. They somewhat reluctantly said I could, and gave me the sequence. The downside, as many of you have pointed out, is that I would lose all my recorded programs, settings and one-passes! We decided it was worth it, and made the plunge. It worked! Now I have the old UI back. I did have to set up my one-pass items again (almost 40 of them). And I lost a few recorded programs, but it was worth it to get rid of that crappy new UI. So, if you call Tivo support, they may be willing to give you the downgrade sequence.

On the one hand, I appreciate that it is even possible to go back, but it was painful. I wish the new box had come with the old UI, and given me a choice.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

This is a sort of inactive thread. But if you need it -> How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1

It's nice that TiVo has caught up to reality.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

KDragon said:


> I just got a new Bolt, to replace my defective one (this is my *second* time replacing a bad Bolt - Grrr.) When I brought it up, it had the new "Tivo Home" UI by default. After living with it for a week, we hate it. I called Tivo and asked if I could revert to the old "Tivo Central" UI. They somewhat reluctantly said I could, and gave me the sequence. The downside, as many of you have pointed out, is that I would lose all my recorded programs, settings and one-passes! We decided it was worth it, and made the plunge. It worked! Now I have the old UI back. I did have to set up my one-pass items again (almost 40 of them). And I lost a few recorded programs, but it was worth it to get rid of that crappy new UI. So, if you call Tivo support, they may be willing to give you the downgrade sequence.
> 
> On the one hand, I appreciate that it is even possible to go back, but it was painful. I wish the new box had come with the old UI, and given me a choice.


You could have used KMTTG to save all your one passes and then restored them after the downgrade.


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## ZobVA (Nov 2, 2009)

*I just downgraded my Bolt from Hydra and my stress level has gone down about 10 notches.*
Reverting to the previous UI took about 10 minutes on my Bolt, and then it took another 50 minutes to re-enter my 40 or so Season Passes. It was one of the best-spent hours in a long time. I am so glad to have that horrid Hydra behind me and my familiar, intuitive Tivo interface back. No huge intrusive graphics. No clicking through 4 or 5 menus to one simple function. No jumbled, confusing menu layouts and layers. No more frustration every time I pick up my Tivo remote.
And best of all, I can once again upload videos to my Bolt from my PC using Tivo Desktop. That's what really frustrated me most; after I had paid for the Tivo Desktop software and had been happily using it for a long time, the Hydra "upgrade" disabled that function.
I've learned my lesson; latest does not mean greatest. And from now on I'll wait and watch until reviews are positive before upgrading.


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## ZobVA (Nov 2, 2009)

bradleys said:


> You could have used KMTTG to save all your one passes and then restored them after the downgrade.


But KMTTG is not intuitive software. It would take someone less time to just re-enter the Seasons Passes after doing a Hydra downgrade than it would to download KMTTG, set it up and figure out how to use it. I'm just sayin'...


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

ZobVA said:


> But KMTTG is not intuitive software. It would take someone less time to just re-enter the Seasons Passes after doing a Hydra downgrade than it would to download KMTTG, set it up and figure out how to use it. I'm just sayin'...


Downloading and setting up KMTTG would result in one having KMTTG, which is a very useful program. Re-entering 50 season passes would get you what, improved TiVo remote skills?


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## barsky62 (Feb 28, 2018)

ej42137 said:


> Downloading and setting up KMTTG would result in one having KMTTG, which is a very useful program. Re-entering 50 season passes would get you what, improved TiVo remote skills?


So Hydra is still horrible? Is it primarily the layout or is it still slow? I just replace my tivo mini with a tivi mini vox which connects to my Tivo Bolt (white one). The new mini, at least with the old software is very fast. Blows the doors off the original tivo mini.
Thanks


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

barsky62 said:


> So Hydra is still horrible? Is it primarily the layout or is it still slow? I just replace my tivo mini with a tivi mini vox which connects to my Tivo Bolt (white one). The new mini, at least with the old software is very fast. Blows the doors off the original tivo mini.
> Thanks


 The problem (or not problem depending on how you look at it) is the Hydra looks like Windows 8/Windows 10, it uses a tile system which a number of users don't like, it's like the the eternal XP/Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8/Windows 10 war. Let the old OS die if you want TIVO to have a future. I don't see Hydra as slow that's my opinion, and most of the Hydra battle is based around opinions, my included. Also every operating system for computers has never been ready for the release when it was. Give HYDRA a spin then provide feedback both what you like/ and what you don't like, it's only way the software will improve.


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## barsky62 (Feb 28, 2018)

Well, I just bit the dust a short while ago and upgraded both the tivo bolt and mini4k. 
I do not find it slow. It is obviously a huge, which imo tivo needed. The old OS is rather dated looking. This is more inline with the various set-top boxes. I do not Dislike this. 

As to windows, Loved XP and Win7. Hated Win8. Feel like Win10 is what 8 should have been. I am happy with it.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

tenthplanet said:


> The problem (or not problem depending on how you look at it) is the Hydra looks like Windows 8/Windows 10, it uses a tile system which a number of users don't like, it's like the the eternal XP/Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8/Windows 10 war. Let the old OS die if you want TIVO to have a future. I don't see Hydra as slow that's my opinion, and most of the Hydra battle is based around opinions, my included. Also every operating system for computers has never been ready for the release when it was. Give HYDRA a spin then provide feedback both what you like/ and what you don't like, it's only way the software will improve.


People keep trying to claim the problem is people refuse to accept the new visual interface. While people who have switched back keep reporting, as in this case as well, that it's being unwilling to accept the loss of features.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

barsky62 said:


> Well, I just bit the dust a short while ago and upgraded both the tivo bolt and mini4k.
> I do not find it slow. It is obviously a huge, which imo tivo needed. The old OS is rather dated looking. This is more inline with the various set-top boxes. I do not Dislike this.
> 
> As to windows, Loved XP and Win7. Hated Win8. Feel like Win10 is what 8 should have been. I am happy with it.


Congratulations, you found your way out of the OS war.


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## barsky62 (Feb 28, 2018)

tenthplanet said:


> Congratulations, you found your way out of the OS war.


Fortunately, I spent very little time in it and do not spend time worrying about such things. Use what is best for you and that's all.

As to Hydra and losing features, please give some examples. I have only been on it an hour or so and haven't notice anything missing that I use. I know the Guide now only has the one view, but luckily for me, it is the view I always preferred and used. Everyone's mileage varies.


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## stile99 (Feb 27, 2002)

barsky62 said:


> As to Hydra and losing features, please give some examples.


You're in a forum with thousands of posts covering that question.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I have both running. But while I see the Mini VOX doing fine, I feel a Roamio platform is not strong enough to do Hydra justice. There are more users everyday that know nothing but Hydra. To be honest, the platform is not my highest priority. But it's what can I do with it. Hydra can do a lot. The more I use it the more I can adapt. Just today I found the method to see if a Mini has a tuner. Tomorrow I may learn something new.


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## barsky62 (Feb 28, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> I have both running. But while I see the Mini VOX doing fine, I feel a Roamio platform is not strong enough to do Hydra justice. There are more users everyday that know nothing but Hydra. To be honest, the platform is not my highest priority. But it's what can I do with it. Hydra can do a lot. The more I use it the more I can adapt. Just today I found the method to see if a Mini has a tuner. Tomorrow I may learn something new.


Cool. How do you do that?


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

barsky62 said:


> Well, I just bit the dust a short while ago and upgraded both the tivo bolt and mini4k.


*Bullet*. You bit the *bullet*.


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## barsky62 (Feb 28, 2018)

hahaha yeah, biting the dust is quite different. Thanks


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

barsky62 said:


> Cool. How do you do that?


How can I have both? I have two Roamio with classic UI and a Mini. I have an OTA Roamio with Hydra and Mini. If you mean the Mini's tuner Hit the Right arrow then down. There is an entry "In Use" indicating a tuner is used by a Mini. I was trying to document how a Hydra Mini behaves with respect to various idle conditions. Post here -> Mini 'confusion'


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

barsky62 said:


> As to Hydra and losing features, please give some examples. I have only been on it an hour or so and haven't notice anything missing that I use. I know the Guide now only has the one view, but luckily for me, it is the view I always preferred and used. Everyone's mileage varies.


Loss of the ability to upload shows with any of the various tools out there (TiVo Desktop, pyTiVo, pyTiVo Desktop). You can still download shows. I've seen a number of users also complain about missing the ability to select a folder and play all shows. The 1st if the one that I would have an issue with.

Scott


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

tenthplanet said:


> The problem (or not problem depending on how you look at it) is the Hydra looks like Windows 8/Windows 10, it uses a tile system which a number of users don't like, it's like the the eternal XP/Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8/Windows 10 war. Let the old OS die if you want TIVO to have a future. I don't see Hydra as slow that's my opinion, and most of the Hydra battle is based around opinions, my included. Also every operating system for computers has never been ready for the release when it was. Give HYDRA a spin then provide feedback both what you like/ and what you don't like, it's only way the software will improve.





stile99 said:


> People keep trying to claim the problem is people refuse to accept the new visual interface. While people who have switched back keep reporting, as in this case as well, that it's being unwilling to accept the loss of features.





HerronScott said:


> Loss of the ability to upload shows with any of the various tools out there (TiVo Desktop, pyTiVo, pyTiVo Desktop). You can still download shows. I've seen a number of users also complain about missing the ability to select a folder and play all shows. The 1st if the one that I would have an issue with.


+1 the 2 replies above. I'd actually enjoy trying a new interface (and I find Win10 as just fine). But the loss of features has stopped me. E.g. those mentioned above. Plus loss of the TiVo-format Guide; loss of simple transfer between boxes (although transfers separately can be done (but only for the most modern generation boxes) by going online); from what people say, more steps now being required to perform certain simple tasks (i.e., loss of some efficiency in use); and space often being dedicated more to graphics than to use efficiency. From what I've read here.

Even with the above, I'd still experiment, but for the loss of all recorded shows if I want to revert back.

And note that, with the loss of being able to upload shows to your Hydra box from a PC, you lose the ability to easily watch shows via your TiVo box that you had archived to your PC/storage for space savings reasons or otherwise. ​


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## barsky62 (Feb 28, 2018)

HerronScott said:


> Loss of the ability to upload shows with any of the various tools out there (TiVo Desktop, pyTiVo, pyTiVo Desktop). You can still download shows. I've seen a number of users also complain about missing the ability to select a folder and play all shows. The 1st if the one that I would have an issue with.
> 
> Scott


Yes, that would be an issue. I used pytivo for a number of years on previous tivo boxes. But, in the past few years I've preferred streaming to the box via plex or similar over having to upload the file. Just my personal preference.

Is pytivo even still being developed? maybe it needs updates to go with the updates of hydra


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

barsky62 said:


> Is pytivo even still being developed? maybe it needs updates to go with the updates of hydra


The new option. Very easy to install & use. (except for Hydra)

Easier to use pyTivo


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## barsky62 (Feb 28, 2018)

JoeKustra said:


> The new option. Very easy to install & use. (except for Hydra)
> 
> Easier to use pyTivo


I quickly installed pytivo with the gui. Nice. and yes, it isn't even seen by the tivo that I could tell.

Guess I don't see this as an issue as I stopped using pytivo a few years ago when I moved to Plex. It's so much nicer, imo. But, to each thier own. 
At least there is the option to not update to Hydra.


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## CaseyK24 (Apr 17, 2003)

ZobVA said:


> *I just downgraded my Bolt from Hydra and my stress level has gone down about 10 notches.*
> Reverting to the previous UI took about 10 minutes on my Bolt, and then it took another 50 minutes to re-enter my 40 or so Season Passes. It was one of the best-spent hours in a long time. I am so glad to have that horrid Hydra behind me and my familiar, intuitive Tivo interface back. No huge intrusive graphics. No clicking through 4 or 5 menus to one simple function. No jumbled, confusing menu layouts and layers. No more frustration every time I pick up my Tivo remote.
> And best of all, I can once again upload videos to my Bolt from my PC using Tivo Desktop. That's what really frustrated me most; after I had paid for the Tivo Desktop software and had been happily using it for a long time, the Hydra "upgrade" disabled that function.
> I've learned my lesson; latest does not mean greatest. And from now on I'll wait and watch until reviews are positive before upgrading.


Can I ask what procedure Tivo gave you to "downgrade" from Hydra? I read the procedure from Repeat Guided Set up to press thumbs down twice and then rewind twice and then select. I tried this and after second time I press rewind it "dings" like I did correctly but then it won't let me proceed with "Select" or "enter" or anything. Waits until I press thumbs down a third time and enter but thats Hydra setup.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

CaseyK24 said:


> Can I ask what procedure Tivo gave you to "downgrade" from Hydra? I read the procedure from Repeat Guided Set up to press thumbs down twice and then rewind twice and then select. I tried this and after second time I press rewind it "dings" like I did correctly but then it won't let me proceed with "Select" or "enter" or anything. Waits until I press thumbs down a third time and enter but thats Hydra setup.


That post was from February and the poster has not been back. Have you tried the known working procedure after putting your remote into ir mode? That's TiVo + "C".

How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


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## CaseyK24 (Apr 17, 2003)

JoeKustra said:


> That post was from February and the poster has not been back. Have you tried the known working procedure after putting your remote into ir mode? That's TiVo + "C".
> 
> How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1


Can I ask what the known working procedure is? Tivo + "C" puts int IR mode and then whats procedure for starting "downgrade"? Thanks


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

CaseyK24 said:


> Can I ask what the known working procedure is? Tivo + "C" puts int IR mode and then whats procedure for starting "downgrade"? Thanks


The steps in the "How to Rollback..." thread.


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## wpatters1229 (Nov 11, 2003)

I have two Romios and decided to do the OS upgrade on one. It is horrible. I was hoping they would have added a search function for the one pass listings but no. I understood you can not revert back to the old OS without losing all the recordings and one passes....but then I read that there is a third party software that can do that. What is it and does it really work? Is it free? Tivo should have left the OS alone or at the very least allow reverting back to the earlier version. Could have done a backup and then revert...any help would be great!


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## wpatters1229 (Nov 11, 2003)

Mikeguy said:


> I absolutely agree that I wish that Hydra could be "undone" if one didn't like it and wished to go back to the current UI, with settings and recordings intact. But for whatever the reason, that isn't what's been put in place--I don't know if there were tech. limits and complications to that, fiscal issues, or what.
> 
> Having said that, there's the glass half+ full side: Hydra with voice control is being made available to current Roamio and Bolt box owners easily and at no charge (apart from the purchase of a voice remote, if one wants that functionality)--TiVo instead could have restricted it to Bolt Vox packages, trying to drive replacement box sales that way, or otherwise could have charged for the update (hello, Microsoft Windows, apart from the earlier, limited-time-period free update to Win10). And even though the Hydra reversion option comes at the loss of settings and shows, it's also better than no feasible reversion possibility whatsoever, which had been mentioned as the case earlier this year. IMHO.


I have two Romios and decided to do the OS upgrade on one. It is horrible. I was hoping they would have added a search function for the one pass listings but no. I understood you can not revert back to the old OS without losing all the recordings and one passes....but then I read that there is a third party software that can do that. What is it and does it really work? Is it free? Tivo should have left the OS alone or at the very least allow reverting back to the earlier version. Could have done a backup and then revert...any help would be great!


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

wpatters1229 said:


> I have two Romios and decided to do the OS upgrade on one. It is horrible. I was hoping they would have added a search function for the one pass listings but no. I understood you can not revert back to the old OS without losing all the recordings and one passes....but then I read that there is a third party software that can do that. What is it and does it really work? Is it free? Tivo should have left the OS alone or at the very least allow reverting back to the earlier version. Could have done a backup and then revert...any help would be great!


You can use well-behaving freeware pyTivo Desktop to transfer your shows from your TE4'ed TiVo box to your PC, revert the box back to TE3, and then transfer the shows back. pyTivo Desktop is easy to install and use, and was developed by one of the moderators here.

pyTivo Desktop

Easier to use pyTivo (TCF discussion thread)

Also, though, couldn't you just transfer the shows you want to save to your other Roamio box (assuming that you have the free space on it) and then, after reverting, back again?

To save your OnePasses and other settings, you can use well-regarded freeware kmttg.

kmttg

New program for 1 step TTG downloads, decryption, encoding - kmttg (TCF discussion thread)

Hope this helps--


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## wpatters1229 (Nov 11, 2003)

I did not have anything worthy of keeping on this machine so I just did the revert. Works fine and all is good. Just will setup one passes etc.. Wish the Hydra was better thought out upgrade. Like I mentioned, the new guide is nice and the menu option to add quick actions is nice. Also, wish they would give us some One pass search and sort options. But all said and done the original software that everyone is so used to just needs some tweaks and not a whole mega change. Someone from Microsoft must be working in development...


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