# Anyone send the HR20 back and stick with Tivo



## trehutch (Jan 24, 2004)

I am in the same boat as many of you. I currently have 2 H10-250's. I am thinking about the upgrade to the dissatisfaction of my wife who loves her Tivo but that Tivo won't be able to get her favorite channel in HD, HGTV come Q3 07. Has anyone gotten the Hr20 and simple hated it to the point of sending it back to Directv and then going back to Tivo until they rip it our of your hands from it's cold dead chassis. Just trying to keep the options open.

Family room Sharp LC46D92U, H10-250,
Bedroom Westinghouse LW37W1, H10-250 

thanks for the call out members my bad HR20 not H20


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Pretty much anyone that wants and HR20, doesn't have to give up their HR10's.
You can leave them active on your account. (re-the HR10s)

However, you will be hard pressed to get out of the 2-yr contract, without paying a fee.


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## JimSpence (Sep 19, 2001)

BTW, your title shows H20, should be HR20.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

I sold my wife on the change with the rf remote so we could put the bedroom unit in the closet out of sight. 

She also liked the ability to view pictures from the PC on the TV and the on-screen caller id.

Her only condition was all of the directivo's in the house had to change at once. Same interface\remote everywhere.

Now I just have to decide when to do it. I'm not sure I can go cold turkey off Tivo.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

trehutch said:


> I am in the same boat as many of you. I currently have 2 H10-250's. I am thinking about the upgrade to the dissatisfaction of my wife who loves her Tivo but that Tivo won't be able to get her favorite channel in HD, HGTV come Q3 07. Has anyone gotten the H20 and simple hated it to the point of sending it back to Directv and then going back to Tivo until they rip it our of your hands from it's cold dead chassis. Just trying to keep the options open.
> 
> Family room Sharp LC46D92U, H10-250,
> Bedroom Westinghouse LW37W1, H10-250


trehutch - You mention H20 several times in your post, but the H20 is just an HD receiver, not an HD DVR. As Jim points out, the HR20 is the new DVR that can receive the new HD channels this fall.


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## Tony Chick (Jun 20, 2002)

I kept the Tivo and have both running side-by-side. I let the Tivo handle OTA HD and any D* SD and use the HR20 for live viewing (the guide is *much* faster), Mpeg-4 stuff & networked music (pictures look horrible, they are SD). So, best of both worlds.


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## 230 (Nov 3, 1999)

My wife couldn't care less if her shows are in HD. So I leave the 10-250 hooked up to the S-Video port for her, and use my 1 component input for my H20. (don't ask why I only have 1 component input. Lets just say don't start yanking on wires from another room when you think it's caught on something.)


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

trehutch said:


> I am in the same boat as many of you. I currently have 2 H10-250's. I am thinking about the upgrade to the dissatisfaction of my wife who loves her Tivo but that Tivo won't be able to get her favorite channel in HD, HGTV come Q3 07. Has anyone gotten the Hr20 and simple hated it to the point of sending it back to Directv and then going back to Tivo until they rip it our of your hands from it's cold dead chassis. Just trying to keep the options open.
> 
> Family room Sharp LC46D92U, H10-250,
> Bedroom Westinghouse LW37W1, H10-250
> ...


http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=91721

A thread with both the good and bad of the unit.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

By the way, they aren't going to rip the HR10 from your cold dead hands at all. It will continue to function and be useful just fine. It just won't be able to tune into the new HD. Not sure why everyone things the HR10 all of a sudden won't function after Sept 15th.

The question/answer is fairly simple:
Get an HR20 if you want the new HD.
HR10 will still be great for OTA HD and SD as well as MPEG2 HD while it lasts.
OR examine your other options beyond DirecTV if Tivo is your #1 must have.


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## iaflyer (Oct 21, 2001)

trehutch said:


> Has anyone gotten the Hr20 and simple hated it to the point of sending it back to Directv and then going back to Tivo until they rip it our of your hands from it's cold dead chassis. Just trying to keep the options open.


I did that exact thing - I got an HR20 about 5 months ago, used it for a week and decided I didn't like it and didn't meet my needs as a DVR (ie, reliably record shows). I returned it and got a HR10 off Ebay. Been happy since.


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## unixadm (Jan 1, 2001)

I kept my two HR10-250's and added the HR20. Although the HR20 does have a few nice features, my wife and I did not like the interface, the FF, etc so we ended up putting that in the kid's entertainment room...it is their DVR for their shows and a few movies and stuff.


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## Chuck_IV (Jan 1, 2002)

I just finally gave in and reluctantly ordered the HR20 and 5LNB dish(install is next Thursday), so I wouldn't be left out with the new HD coming. However, since I own my HR10-250, I may just keep it active and run them in parallel. With that setup, I may actually be able to use the PiP on my TV for the first time(I've had the TV for about 4 yrs), LOL.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

I ordered a third HR10 from DTV as a replacement for a SD DTivo that died in October, which was, unfortunately, about the time DTV started their HR10 genocide program, which means the installer showed up with an HR20, the first he'd ever seen. It was on their cost-of-shipping-only program, so I figured WTF. I'll give it a whirl.

I was really honestly hoping, and rooting, for the HR20 to be a contender. Simply put, it wasn't. On the contrary, it was far and away the worst excuse I'd ever seen for a PVR out of the 9 I'd owned since 1999. It was shockingly user-hostile, for one thing. I tried valiantly for a week to get with that program, but in the end just couldn't stomach it.

DTV didn't really want me to sent it back, but I finally got them to agree to that and to pay for a HR10 that I found at a CC (they were at the point where they could no longer ship them). Of course I had to threaten them with the fact that Cox cable had more HD and better PQ before they'd do that.

It would have to take FXHD including the shows I watch there being in HD before I would consider replacing an HR10 with one of those, and I would probably have to back those recordings up (in SD) with a HR10. And I still doubt if I'd like that situation very much.


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## jbrasure (Jan 1, 2007)

I had an HR20 for about 3 months. It drove me and my wife crazy. We sent it back, switched to cable, and now we have a Tivo Series 3. We've been happy ever since.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

I have wondered about this option myself. Did you use an HR10-250 before this?


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Several of you seem to have very negative opinions of the HR20 that were formed months ago when it first came out. Is there a way for us to separate the opinions based on the software the HR20 is running today vs. when it was first released?

I'm trying to be fair here and clearly it is not the same product today that it was 8 months ago.


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## BruceShultes (Oct 2, 2006)

I have a Tivo S3, a D* HR10-250 and a D* HR20-700.

I did not get the HR20 until about 2 months ago.

While I still prefer the Tivo interface, at this point the HR20 software has been tested and tweaked often enough, that it has no more problems than either the S3 or the HR10. 

The HR20 software is still being worked on to fix whatever problems are still left and add more features. For those users who wish to participate, new software builds are available for download and beta testing almost weekly.

Check out the Cutting Edge forum on dbstalk.com.

Of course, most of the problems with the S3 are caused by my cable company. In the case of the HR10, the only problems have been since D* started to upgrade them to versions of the 6.3 software.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Since I don't like the idea of constantly switching between the 2 I guess I'll keep the 10-250 till they turn off the existing HD mpeg2 channels. Most people assume this'll happen when all the HD mpeg4 channels are up next summer; but with all the bandwith they'll have then. if a few hundred thousand 10-250's are still working maybe they'll keep them up for a couple more years.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Cudahy said:


> Since I don't like the idea of constantly switching between the 2 I guess I'll keep the 10-250 till they turn off the existing HD mpeg2 channels. Most people assume this'll happen when all the HD mpeg4 channels are up next summer; but with all the bandwith they'll have then. if a few hundred thousand 10-250's are still working maybe they'll keep them up for a couple more years.


No. You're forgetting that the 2 new sats do *nothing* to relieve the awefull bandwidth problems they have on the other older 3 MPEG2 sats. They will shutdown the MPEG2 HD feeds as soon as they possibly can. This time next year they will probably be gone. If you still want HD from D* they will offer you an upgrade, simple as that. If you don't want the upgrade that is your choice. I'd expect a big push starting at the beginning of the year. By then those who wanted the new HD would have already upgraded on their own and they will just have a few stragglers left that don't have at least one MPEG4 receiver.


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## fasTLane (Nov 25, 2005)

The current HDLIL is not on the current sats? When that moves will it not free up *something*?


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

fasTLane said:


> The current HDLIL is not on the current sats? When that moves will it not free up *something*?


It is on spotbeams. That they will probably continue to use for LiL. They are going for 1500 HD locals by next year. And they are already MPEG4, so even freeing them up would not free as much space as MPEG2's do.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

Cudahy said:


> Since I don't like the idea of constantly switching between the 2 I guess I'll keep the 10-250 till they turn off the existing HD mpeg2 channels.


Suit yourself, but for me, when one price covers all DVRs on my account and I only have to pay ~ $5/mo. extra receiver mirroring fee to add another, I see no reason not to use both HR20 and HR10. When the MPEG 2 HD feed is shut down, I'll reassess as to whether it's worth keeping the HR10 for ATSC and SD, but for right now, I'm fine with my setup.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HiDefGator said:


> Her only condition was all of the directivo's in the house had to change at once. Same interface\remote everywhere.


That's funny. Do all the light switches and TVs and radios and cars in your household have to be the same, too?


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## kennedy (Aug 16, 2006)

I attempted to make the jump from HR10-250 to HR20-700 towards the end of last year. I had very high expectations, but alas took it back to BB after only four days use due to it's bugginess. It was very disappointing. I switched to cable/S3 and have been very happy. Since that time I have followed the progress of the HR20 over @ dbstalk. Noticing that complaints had started to subside, I bit my tongue and actually recommended that my mother upgrade her HR10-250 to the HR20. That was about a month ago (she got an HR20-100S). Her unit has actually performed pretty good for her (has had to reboot it once). I've played with it a bit and it seems MUCH more user friendly than it was when I was at the wheel last year. I like the newer white GUI. I think D* has made some real strides over the course of this year with the HR20.

I have always loved D* (10 yr Sub.). It was a sad day when I had to leave them over the buggy DVR they introduced to market too early. I'm happy that they have appeared to have righted the ship. Too little too late for me though.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> That's funny. Do all the light switches and TVs and radios and cars in your household have to be the same, too?


As a matter of fact the light switches are all white decora style along with all the outlets. When they build new houses they tend to make them all match like that.
I'm not sure why anyone would go to home depot and buy a new switch\outlet that doesn't match their existing ones.

Currently there are matching DTivo remotes and DVR user interfaces on all my TV's.

I understand her attitude. We have 4 dvr's in the house. All four of them are set to record all the same things because we don't know which TV we will be watching at the time. I can perfectly understand not wanting to deal with two different remotes, two different UI's, and two different sets of available channels to record. Especially when I can make them all the same DVR just by asking. And there's nothing the HR10 does that the HR20 doesn't that we use today.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

fasTLane said:


> The current HDLIL is not on the current sats? When that moves will it not free up *something*?


They are on the Spaceways which are already at the new slots of 99 and 103. They have nothing to do with the "core" at 101/110/119 which all the SD and MPEG2 HD are on.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

*"They will shutdown the MPEG2 HD feeds as soon as they possibly can. This time next year they will probably be gone. "*

Is this FUD or what? We've seen all kinds of comments about Direct shutting down this stuff from the end of this year and beyond.

I'm sure there are all kinds of factors that go into this decision - including how many HR10-250 only customers they have and how much it will cost them to switch these folks.

The HR10-250 has no announced end date on when it will no longer be able to get HD mpeg2, so give it a break for pitty sakes.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

RS4 said:


> *"They will shutdown the MPEG2 HD feeds as soon as they possibly can. This time next year they will probably be gone. "*
> 
> Is this FUD or what? We've seen all kinds of comments about Direct shutting down this stuff from the end of this year and beyond.
> 
> ...


No, you need to give it break. It's just my opinion. But all signs point to end of 2008 at the latest. Good evidence suggests middle of next year. Either way those effected need to be aware it's happening and it's happening soon and they need to prepare one way or another.

And that is all I will say on the subject. Those who want more opinions, information and facts without getting attacked can go to:
www.avsforum.com
www.dbstalk.com
www.satelliteguys.us


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## iaflyer (Oct 21, 2001)

RS4 said:


> *"They will shutdown the MPEG2 HD feeds as soon as they possibly can. This time next year they will probably be gone. "*
> 
> Is this FUD or what? We've seen all kinds of comments about Direct shutting down this stuff from the end of this year and beyond.
> 
> ...


Good point - in addition to HR10-250 owners, wasn't there an MPEG-2 HD receiver (without DVR) out for a long time before the HR10? Remember they have to switch ALL these people before shutting down the MPEG-2 HD. Otherwise they are going to get phone calls from ALL the people who no longer are have HD. Talk about a PR nightmare.

I'm not too worried about MPEG-2 HD channels disappearing too soon. I'm sure DirecTV will give send us a letter and give everyone plenty of time to get new hardware.


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## iaflyer (Oct 21, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> No, you need to give it break. It's just my opinion. But all signs point to end of 2008 at the latest. Good evidence suggests middle of next year. Either way those effected need to be aware it's happening and it's happening soon and they need to prepare one way or another.


And the average consumer it going to find out that they are losing MPEG-2 HD how...? by coming to this site and reading many many posts? I think not... this is an enthusiast website.

Most people don't care how they get their TV... if you ask, I bet many DirecTV (and Dish for that matter) customers think that when you switch channels with the remote, the receiver sends a signal to the satellite, which then beams the correct channel to their TV...


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

iaflyer said:


> And the average consumer it going to find out that they are losing MPEG-2 HD how...? by coming to this site and reading many many posts? I think not... this is an enthusiast website.
> 
> Most people don't care how they get their TV... if you ask, I bet many DirecTV (and Dish for that matter) customers think that when you switch channels with the remote, the receiver sends a signal to the satellite, which then beams the correct channel to their TV...


And what has that got to do with this discussion (which is of timing)? Certainly DirecTV will send out letters or make phone calls once the time comes for those that haven't already upgraded on their own. I think that is pretty obvious.

Anyway...


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## iaflyer (Oct 21, 2001)

bonscott87 said:


> And what has that got to do with this discussion (which is of timing)? Certainly DirecTV will send out letters or make phone calls once the time comes for those that haven't already upgraded on their own. I think that is pretty obvious.


Yes, I agree that they will, but you said "Good evidence suggests middle of next year" for shutting down MPEG-2. Middle of next year is about a year away - if DirecTV plans on junking an untold number of MPEG-2 HD receivers, they might want to telling people about it and give everyone some lead time. It will take time to make enough of the replacement receivers, tell everyone, get everyone scheduled for an install, and install it. Not going to happen overnight.

I don't think those who haven't upgraded on their own is going to be an insignificant number. Many of us who come to this site want the latest and greatest, so they are upgrading now. Those who don't want that will say "why change, it works for me now". My other point was that I think many DirecTV customers don't know or care whether or not their receiver is MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. They aren't going to upgrade on their own.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

My guess, they'll send out letters to users of MPEG2 about 2 months ahead of time. I would assume they'll also send out a message on the HR10 as well (the better choice for notifying IMO) telling customers they'll need to upgrade.

Is there any financial disadvantage to D* leaving MPEG2 HD feeds on for a longer period of time?


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> *"They will shutdown the MPEG2 HD feeds as soon as they possibly can. This time next year they will probably be gone. "*
> 
> Is this FUD or what? We've seen all kinds of comments about Direct shutting down this stuff from the end of this year and beyond.
> 
> ...


You want some more FUD? In my opinion, not only are we nearing the end for MPEG2 HD, but in the not too distant future, I expect we'll see the end of MPEG2 SD. The question is ... how far in the not too distant future? I expect within the next 10 years we will hear plans to shut down MPEG2 service from DIRECTV. Why do I say this? Because Echostar has already decided to simulcast their entire MPEG2 SD lineup in MPEG4 and all new customers will only receive MPEG4 receivers. They're going to then start transitioning current MPEG2 SD customers over to the new MPEG4 SD receivers so they can shut down the MPEG2 streams entirely. Don't be surprised when DIRECTV moves in that direction. It will mean a massive effort to replace receivers, but they did it once already with MPEG1 receivers (with a much smaller customer base) and they can do it again given long term planning, early upgrade incentives, and eventual swap-outs.

Now is that FUD? Long term prognostication? Or realism? To say that the handwriting is on the wall should not be necessary... but this effort will start with MPEG2 HD receivers, and that means both HR10s and the non-DVR HD MPEG2 receivers out there. The only question is when, and one year from now is not that much of a shock, since it would be a year after the launch of the new satellite and about 6 months after the launch of the second new satellite.


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## iaflyer (Oct 21, 2001)

Sir_winealot said:


> My guess, they'll send out letters to users of MPEG2 about 2 months ahead of time. I would assume they'll also send out a message on the HR10 as well (the better choice for notifying IMO) telling customers they'll need to upgrade.


I think at two months is too late for letters. I'd send the letters out six months ahead of time. At two months, they should be putting a message on the HR10. A month ahead I'd call the customers and tell them. At two weeks, put a crawl on the MPEG-2 HD channels every so often saying these channels are going to be shut off on xx/xx/20xx - please call DirecTV at 1-800-xxx-xxxx now to avoid losing the channels.

Remember this is going to back up the installers something fierce. Back in January, people were reporting a month to get a HR20 installed. I don't remember if they delay wasn't enough receivers or not enough installers but there was a delay.



Sir_winealot said:


> Is there any financial disadvantage to D* leaving MPEG2 HD feeds on for a longer period of time?


I think that DirecTV has plans for the bankwidth - probably more channels. More channels means more money in their pocket. If they were nice, they could up the bandwidth on the existing channels, but my guess is that it isn't going to happen.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

iaflyer said:


> Remember this is going to back up the installers something fierce. Back in January, people were reporting a month to get a HR20 installed. I don't remember if they delay wasn't enough receivers or not enough installers but there was a delay.


Delays were caused by not having enough installers. When I called I January I was given a mid-April appointment, and eventually got that bumped to early March. The timeframes varied by region, as well.


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## bidger (Mar 30, 2001)

iaflyer said:


> And the average consumer it going to find out that they are losing MPEG-2 HD how...?


There's been widespread adoption, but I would say it's still the case that someone with an HDTV and HD DVR isn't an _average_ consumer. They tend to be a bit more informed and crave more HD and I think those who are with DIRECTV are aware of the impending HD channel additions.


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

iaflyer said:


> Yes, I agree that they will, but you said "Good evidence suggests middle of next year" for shutting down MPEG-2. Middle of next year is about a year away - if DirecTV plans on junking an untold number of MPEG-2 HD receivers, they might want to telling people about it and give everyone some lead time. It will take time to make enough of the replacement receivers, tell everyone, get everyone scheduled for an install, and install it. Not going to happen overnight.
> 
> I don't think those who haven't upgraded on their own is going to be an insignificant number. Many of us who come to this site want the latest and greatest, so they are upgrading now. Those who don't want that will say "why change, it works for me now". My other point was that I think many DirecTV customers don't know or care whether or not their receiver is MPEG-2 or MPEG-4. They aren't going to upgrade on their own.


You are correct, they don't know or care between MPEG2 and MPEG4. But they don't need to. See, there will be 50-100 new HD channels launching in 2 short months. People will be knocking down DirecTV's doors asking how they can get these channels and the answer will be "we'll send out this new receiver to you".

After 6 months of that including a big Christmas push there really isn't going to be all that many DirecTV HD households left that don't have at least 1 MPEG4 receiver. If there are even 20% left that haven't upgraded I'd be *really* suprised. And that's all that matters. If you believe that most current HD customers are just going to sit around and do nothing while all these new channels go up then you are really fooling yourself.

But hey, who really knows. My guess (RS4....that means *my opinion* by the way) is DirecTV will do an analysis in Jan 08 to see where they are at. They can easily see how many HD customers they have that don't have MPEG4 equipment. And they can then plan how quickly to move forward. If 80% have already upgraded then it's pretty easy to send out letters to the remaining 20% and shut everything down in 6 months. If only 50% have converted then maybe they stretch it out a bit more, or maybe they get more aggressive to get them converted. Who knows. But I think 50+ new HD channels will get plenty converted on their own, DirecTV won't have to do a thing. And these people won't even realize they converted, they just know they got more HD.

In any case it's just a matter of setting a date, giving people information on upgrades and going from there. I'm sure there is some planning starting now but it all hinges on lighting up all those new channels and how quickly people upgrade on their own because of it. And they certainly aren't going to sit back and delay shutting down MPEG4 because a few thousand people refuse to upgrade. Their loss.

Even if they wait until D11 launches, you're still looking at end of next year at the latest, especially when they already announced Extra Innings HD in MPEG4 only next year and you can bet Sunday Ticket will go MPEG4 only next year as well and that will push the last few stragglers assuming they haven't already shut down MPEG2 HD.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

drew2k said:


> You want some more FUD? In my opinion, not only are we nearing the end for MPEG2 HD, but in the not too distant future, I expect we'll see the end of MPEG2 SD. The question is ... how far in the not too distant future? I expect within the next 10 years we will hear plans to shut down MPEG2 service from DIRECTV.


I agree, but I think it will be a lot sooner than 10 years. It will all boil down to the bean counters and their numbers. How much will it cost to swap out a few million remaining mpeg2 receivers vice continuing to operate mpeg2 equipment (i.e. uplinks, sats, support, etc)? I'm sure they can crank out some low end basic mpeg4 receivers for a total swap of the stragglers for a nominal cost. And it's the long term outlook they will be looking at anyway, so spend a few million $ to get many million $.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

RS4 said:


> *"They will shutdown the MPEG2 HD feeds as soon as they possibly can. This time next year they will probably be gone. "*
> 
> Is this FUD or what? We've seen all kinds of comments about Direct shutting down this stuff from the end of this year and beyond.
> 
> ...


What's the #1 reason most folks bought a HR10? For HD channels form D*! Once these shut down it's only good for OTA and SD. So if you can't get SD, then you have a unit only for SD. Or if you can get OTA, than that and SD. BUT no new HD from D* which is the main point of the HR10.

get it through your head. It's an old and soon near obsolete machine.


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## 1003 (Jul 14, 2000)

*No HR20-700*
for me. No way no how, not gonna hapen in this lifetime...

HR10-250 broke
HR20-700 from 'protection plan'
HR20-700 replacement
HR20-700 replacement
30 days later
*Hello, Dish Network!!!* Its not quite TiVo, but it is already light years ahead of the unreliable DirecTV box.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

gio1269 said:


> What's the #1 reason most folks bought a HR10? For HD channels form D*! Once these shut down it's only good for OTA and SD. So if you can't get SD, then you have a unit only for SD. Or if you can get OTA, than that and SD. BUT no new HD from D* which is the main point of the HR10.
> 
> get it through your head. It's an old and soon near obsolete machine.


Yeah-yeah...we know your mantra, "a dying breed." 

The #1 reason that we got an HR10 was for HD locals, which we get OTA. 99.9% of our recording is done on these channels, and very rarely do we record D* HD content.

That said, their newer up-and-coming packages on MPEG4 are something that will get noticed. But please ....don't take away my UHD, HDNET or TNTHD stretch!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Those who think the MPEG2 HD shutoff is far away (and not in 12 to 18 months) because of the time it takes to swap out boxes, how about looking at the short turnaround Comcast did with analog cable in Chicago?

It can be done quickly (and without installers) if it is plug this box in where your old one was....


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

TonyD79 said:


> It can be done quickly (and without installers) if it is plug this box in where your old one was....


But it's not. Most MPEG4 swaps require an installer since most of them require a new 5 headed monster to be hung off the roof. As of the end of last year MPEG4 swaps were costing DTV $450 on average. I imagine that number has come down, but it's still an expensive undertaking.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

TonyD79 said:


> Those who think the MPEG2 HD shutoff is far away (and not in 12 to 18 months)


You are in the realm of reality, at least. _Some_ DirecTV [whatever you want to call them, fans?] have talked, here and on the "other" forum, in terms of September 2007, end of year 2007. I believe these are panic-inducing, unrealistic statements.

I have no idea if we're talking 18 months, two years, or several years.

But there is simply no need to panic-bail-out of Tivo service and switch to DirecTV's non-Tivo product if the HR10-250 is currently meeting your needs, or not to consider Tivo service and the HR10-250 if it can meet your current needs.

There will come a time, someday, when DirecTV will announce a timeline, with plenty of advance notice, and people can look at the marketplace THEN and the other solutions available THEN that will be more developed and will not involve DirecTV.

It is to DirecTV's advantage (or advantage as perceived by some subset of the current ownership/management of DirecTV, hopefully obsolete) to encourage a switch away from Tivo RIGHT NOW, with a locked-in service commitment so that you are preempted from making more informed decisions in the future.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

Redux said:


> You are in the realm of reality, at least. _Some_ DirecTV [whatever you want to call them, fans?] have talked, here and on the "other" forum, in terms of September 2007, end of year 2007. I believe these are panic-inducing, unrealistic statements.
> 
> I have no idea if we're talking 18 months, two years, or several years.
> 
> ...


You have this thing with the commitment. Last year (May) in getting the HR10 as the HR20 was being developed I was _"locked-in service commitment so that you are preempted from making more informed decisions in the future."_

I was either going to get a HR10 or wait for a unit that was supposed to come out but I or at that time D* could not give me a lot of details on it. So people who bought/leased a HR10 say 12-18 months ago wee in the same situation.

You make it seem like it's only the evil HR20 that locks you in. How many people yu think have a D* protection plan? THey get new HR20 for free. You think people who have been with D* for 10+ yrs and have no contracts, have NST/SF, Top packages are paying more not getting these without commitments? There are plenty of people who have. OK, there upfront cost might be slightly more, but it's possible.

Yes, do I like being locked in for 2 yrs? No, but I am not leaving D*. Sane with Cell Phones. You want a new fancy phone for free or cheap? Sign for 2 yrs. I don't care because I am not leaving my carrier. So I sign one, every year I upgrade for basically free and sign a new 2 yr agreement.

Only cable keeps you free. I wonder when Cable Co. come out with their own new DVR, they won't be doing the same.

So it's not the HR20 fault! 

Would I have liked a M4 Tivo? Sure, but if you open your eyes, the HR20 is a very nice machine. Unless you want/need the Thumbs thing and a whishlist.....


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## bonscott87 (Oct 3, 2000)

Redux said:


> You are in the realm of reality, at least. _Some_ DirecTV [whatever you want to call them, fans?] have talked, here and on the "other" forum, in terms of September 2007, end of year 2007. I believe these are panic-inducing, unrealistic statements.


Well, let's clear that up. The *only* people making statements like that are people saying a CSR or installer told them that. And we all jump in and say that it's wrong. CSR's don't know what their talking about, we all know that. So in other words, your "DirecTV fans" are saying this is wrong and it's going to be longer then just this fall or end of 07. Get your fact straight there. 



> But there is simply no need to panic-bail-out of Tivo service and switch to DirecTV's non-Tivo product if the HR10-250 is currently meeting your needs, or not to consider Tivo service and the HR10-250 if it can meet your current needs.
> 
> There will come a time, someday, when DirecTV will announce a timeline, with plenty of advance notice, and people can look at the marketplace THEN and the other solutions available THEN that will be more developed and will not involve DirecTV.


Of course there isn't a need to bail out now. Have no idea who is saying otherwise. Still 2 months away until the new HD channels are even available and we are probably 6 months away from some announcement about the swapout timeline. All talk about a swapout and timeline is all speculation at this point.

And of course everyone should look at all their options. I do this every year for myself. I've advocated this many times. You should always go with what service best meets your needs, whatever that may be. I personally could care less if you or anyone else has DirecTV, cable, Dish or whatnot.

And who's saying to get rid of the HR10 anyway? Lots of posts on how to keep it in use even after the switch. Most people are just adding an MPEG4 receiver to their current receiver farm and at most retiring an SD DirecTivo. HR10's will live on for many years with some use for some people.



> It is to DirecTV's advantage (or advantage as perceived by some subset of the current ownership/management of DirecTV, hopefully obsolete) to encourage a switch away from Tivo RIGHT NOW, with a locked-in service commitment so that you are preempted from making more informed decisions in the future.


Again, not sure where you are getting this. I don't see anybody pushing anyone into getting away from Tivo. Besides the fact that you don't have to give up your Tivo to add an MPEG4 receiver.

All I see is a discussion, which some are taking too personally like it's against Tivo, about the very real conversion to MPEG4, what the timelines might be and what the impact is. Again, I see nobody *pushing* people to get something now. The channels aren't even up yet. Until they are there is no reason to get an HR20 unless you plan to stay with DirecTV no matter what and want to beat the rush (or you can get MPEG4 locals). That's all. No huge conspiracy here.

You, RS4 and others need to tone your sensitivity level down just a bit.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

*"It is to DirecTV's advantage (or advantage as perceived by some subset of the current ownership/management of DirecTV, hopefully obsolete) to encourage a switch away from Tivo RIGHT NOW, with a locked-in service commitment so that you are preempted from making more informed decisions in the future."*

Of course you're totally right, Redux. D* has a lot riding on the new mpeg4 channels. Their reputation has gone down in the last few months (JD Power survey) and the only thing going for them is to try to gain momentum with the hoopla of the new channels.

They are therefore going to want as many HD TIVO users as possible to have an mpeg4 in the house ASAP before they lose the momentum. I actually agree with Scott (for once) that it will probably be the end of the year when D* decides what their timeline will be for getting rid of mpeg2 hd. I think that those of us who haven't gotten mpeg4 by that time will see no rush, so D* should have a pretty good idea of how many of us are still just mpeg 2 hd and how much it will cost them to switch us.

Again, being the Tivo lover that I am, I'm hoping enough of us hold out to encourage D* & Tivo to come out with an mpeg4 box that will be fully functional.

Other folks can say that will never happen and perhaps they are right, but I say it's worth the try. I've also learned to never say never and never say always. So that's my sage advice.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> *"It is to DirecTV's advantage (or advantage as perceived by some subset of the current ownership/management of DirecTV, hopefully obsolete) to encourage a switch away from Tivo RIGHT NOW, with a locked-in service commitment so that you are preempted from making more informed decisions in the future."*
> 
> Of course you're totally right, Redux.


It's to the advantage of ANY company, TiVo included, to lock customers in to a commitment. Locking customers in, however, does not preempt customers from making informed decisions in the future. It may, however, limit the *actions* available to the customer. 



> Again, being the Tivo lover that I am, I'm hoping enough of us hold out to encourage D* & Tivo to come out with an mpeg4 box that will be fully functional.


Well, the good news is that there's a fully functional MPEG4 DVR available *right now* from DIRECTV, and you're hearing this straight from a TiVo lover like you! 



> Other folks can say that will never happen and perhaps they are right, but I say it's worth the try. I've also learned to never say never and never say always. So that's my sage advice.


I personally think this is the best attitude one can take with regards to changing technologies and brand-loyalty. Nothing stays the same forever, and if you limit yourself to one brand, or hold that one brand up as the standard by which all other options will be measured, you are guaranteed to be disappointed.


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## Sir_winealot (Nov 18, 2000)

gio1269 said:


> You have this thing with the commitment. Last year (May) in getting the HR10 as the HR20 was being developed I was _"locked-in service commitment so that you are preempted from making more informed decisions in the future."_
> 
> I was either going to get a HR10 or wait for a unit that was supposed to come out but I or at that time D* could not give me a lot of details on it. So people who bought/leased a HR10 say 12-18 months ago wee in the same situation.
> 
> ...


You're missing the point. It's not so much the "getting locked into 2 more years" with the HR20, it was the fact that I got locked in while being a beta tester for it.

If you're gonna make me abide by a contract, then you best be giving me a DVR that can consistantly and reliably record programming.


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## RS4 (Sep 2, 2001)

*"I personally think this is the best attitude one can take with regards to changing technologies and brand-loyalty. Nothing stays the same forever, and if you limit yourself to one brand, or hold that one brand up as the standard by which all other options will be measured, you are guaranteed to be disappointed."*

Drew, you missed my point. I won't re-hash about all of the issues of the D* replacement for the HR10-250, but suffice it to say that many of us Tivo owners would prefer a Tivo mepg4 unit. So, I'm saying that I hope enough others feel the same way too and they holdout like me in the hopes of persuading D* that having a choice is very important to us. In this case, standing frim shows D* that we don't care for their existing product and want a Tivo - branded product.

I believe many times that talking with the wallet is sometimes the only way to get the attention of a vendor. If enough of us hold up by not getting the replacement, DirecTV may see the $$$ they are losing and decide how much it will cost them to offer an alternative.

My motto is - hold firm and see what happens.


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## drew2k (Jun 10, 2003)

RS4 said:


> *"I personally think this is the best attitude one can take with regards to changing technologies and brand-loyalty. Nothing stays the same forever, and if you limit yourself to one brand, or hold that one brand up as the standard by which all other options will be measured, you are guaranteed to be disappointed."*
> 
> Drew, you missed my point.


You're right .. I did. 

However, I still think what I posted (and you bolded, above) is valid.


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## gio1269 (Jul 27, 2006)

Sir_winealot said:


> You're missing the point. It's not so much the "getting locked into 2 more years" with the HR20, it was the fact that I got locked in while being a beta tester for it.
> 
> If you're gonna make me abide by a contract, then you best be giving me a DVR that can consistantly and reliably record programming.


That point I understand. That is the excat point I used that WAS going to get me out of my contract. I hollered and scram for 3 hrs with several supervisors. When my *HR10* had issue, after issue, after issue.
They offerd my a chance to get out of the contract and return the HR10 or get basically $350 in credits.

I said I signed on for 2 yrs for the right to buy a WORKING DVR, not D* service. Well I am happy with my HR20 as many others are and the same with the HR10. I loved my HR10 and wish it worked and was M4 capable. But I now prefer the HR20.

This quote "beat testing" has happened with phones as well.


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