# Bolt+ revealed



## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykarcz/2016/09/12/tivo-bolt-announced/#16810276152f


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

So to be clear it can still be set up OTA, and with six tuners?
$1100 all-in? That's a lot. I might be good with what I have.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

abovethesink said:


> http://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonykarcz/2016/09/12/tivo-bolt-announced/#16810276152f


I swear that had a different remote when I first viewed it.


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12/tivo-bolt-plus-bigger-blacker/


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## Alan Gordon (May 15, 2005)

series5orpremier said:


> So to be clear it can still be set up OTA, and with six tuners?
> $1100 all-in? That's a lot. I might be good with what I have.


Engadget says no OTA capability, but their chart also said that the Roamio Pro had OTA capability, so maybe the chart was swapped in that section?


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

JoeKustra said:


> And you get to learn a new remote layout too.
> 
> I swear that had a different remote when I first viewed it.


I'm guessing the last line was an edit to correct the first line? Because the remote appears to be the same as my Roamio Pro.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Alan Gordon said:


> Engadget says no OTA capability, but their chart also said that the Roamio Pro had OTA capability, so maybe the chart was swapped in that section?


Their chart is all messed up. It showed the Roamio Pro as having a 100BT Ethernet port. When it actually has a GigE port.

But on the picture of the Back of the Bolt+, the coax input is labeled Cable/ANT.
So based on that pic, that would mean it still has ATSC tuners along with the QAM tuners.

My question though is about heat. Many people have said that their 4 tuner Bolts run hot. So if the Bolt+ is in the same enclosure and they added two more tuners, isn't that going to increase the heat?

Between the extra tuners producing heat plus the Hard drive constantly reading/writing a minimum of seven streams compared with the four tuner Bolt constantly reading/writing a minimum of five streams.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> My question though is about heat. Many people have said that their 4 tuner Bolts run hot.


My Bolt runs cooler than my Roamio Pro. The difference is the Bolt reads the temperature differently than the Roamio so people think it is much hotter than normal.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

I would have jumped on this the day it was released. But now... I can't trust my Bolt... So if they ever fix their guide data, I will consider it.


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## Africanlivedit (Apr 30, 2014)

As a Bolt owner ... don't see any HUGE reason to upgrade. I have the expansion drive already attached to my Bolt ... so besides the bigger disc space and 2 more tuners, nothing much is added.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> Their chart is all messed up. ...


The BCM7445 is also 21,000 DMIPS, not 11,000.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Sixto said:


> The BCM7445 is also 21,000 DMIPS, not 11,000.


This is what I was wondering. So is this actually a different and faster CPU than the 4 tuner Bolt has? That would make me even more likely to get the Bolt+.

Im seriously thinking about getting the Bolt+ and cutting a slot in the enclosure to run a SATA cable through it. Then instead of using an internal 2.5″ hard drive, i would use an external 3.5″ hard drive, And I would use either a 6TB or 8TB WD Red drive.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

And after looking at the BCM7445 specs, it says that it can handle for transcoded streams.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> And after looking at the BCM7445 specs, it says that it can handle for transcoded streams.


Could be heat, performance, perception, and/or software engineering considerations at play.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Looks like a solid replacement for the Roamio Pro. I wonder why it took a year to release it. If it can actually do cable or OTA that is an added feature over the Roamio Pro. But would have been much more impressive if it could have done cable AND OTA.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

This just doesn't seem like the box for enthusiasts Ira mentioned last year. He said that they wouldn't come out with an enthusiast box that has a capacity that "won't excite" us. This has the exact same capacity that Roamio Pro boxes have had for years. How would that excite us? I have two Roamio Pros, each with an additional 1TB external drive attached, and I still run out of space. I'm willing to pay for a TiVo that allows me to have substantially more space, but this Bolt+ doesn't appear to be it. Since I don't currently care about 4K, the only thing I would get by upgrading to the Bolt+ is faster menus. Is there something else that I'm missing?


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Yawn. It's basically what I was expecting, although I figured TiVo would include support for HDR streaming in the Bolt+ and maybe announce one or two more apps beyond Netflix and YouTube that could support UHD. (Granted, any of those things could be forthcoming via future updates but if they were imminent, you'd think they'd be touted in the press release.) I don't see many Roamio Pro owners upgrading to this.

Looks like TiVo is exiting the CableCARD DVR market with more of a whimper than a bang.


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## Africanlivedit (Apr 30, 2014)

NashGuy said:


> Yawn. It's basically what I was expecting, although I figured TiVo would include support for HDR streaming in the Bolt+ and maybe announce one or two more apps beyond Netflix and YouTube that could support UHD. (Granted, any of those things could be forthcoming via future updates but if they were imminent, you'd think they'd be touted in the press release.) I don't see many Roamio Pro owners upgrading to this.
> 
> Looks like TiVo is exiting the CableCARD DVR market with more of a whimper than a bang.


No kidding.

Where's Amazon UHD? How about Vudu UHD?


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

I don't know what I expected exactly with this new Bolt+, but I know I wanted more then just a couple extra tuners. HDD size really isn't an obstacle for most of us. They would have had to go all out with like 6TB HDD for that to matter to me.

If pushed I could come up with a short list of things that would have been nice, but as it stands I'm going to hold off on upgrading from my current Bolt. Maybe when my free year expires I'll consider it then.

Current Mood: Luke Warm. 

So we know that the performance specs are the same?


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## PaulMCO (Jul 17, 2016)

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz -- loving my Roamio plus obtained for $100 on ebay.


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

I am curious what 3TB AV rated 2.5inch drive the Bolt+ is using as such a drive is not currently in the retail market.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Yawn. It's basically what I was expecting, although I figured TiVo would include support for HDR streaming in the Bolt+ and maybe announce one or two more apps beyond Netflix and YouTube that could support UHD. (Granted, any of those things could be forthcoming via future updates but if they were imminent, you'd think they'd be touted in the press release.) I don't see many Roamio Pro owners upgrading to this.
> 
> Looks like TiVo is exiting the CableCARD DVR market with more of a whimper than a bang.


TiVo is releasing the most advanced cable DVR the world has ever seen and your conclusion is they are exiting the market? Really? Given you have no interest in buying/owning a cable DVR I can understand finding it boring.

I am not sure what you thought TiVo was going to release as their premium cable DVR. But just as a reminder this is a needed hardware release, software updates can come at any time.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Well, I like the piano black case better than the white. If it has 6 OTA tuners that would be pretty neat too. But the hard drive size is the same as the Roamio Pro. I think TiVo tried to push into the smaller form factor a little too soon. They should have gone with a larger box for the Bolt+ so that they could have thrown a 6TB drive in her.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Well, I like the piano black case better than the white. If it has 6 OTA tuners that would be pretty neat too. But the hard drive size is the same as the Roamio Pro. I think TiVo tried to push into the smaller form factor a little too soon. They should have gone with a larger box for the Bolt+ so that they could have thrown a 6TB drive in her.


Maybe there is still time for a Bolt Pro, maybe next year? We have Bolt, Bolt Plus, and only Bolt Pro missing to complement the Roamio naming / lineup.

Is it likely? Perhaps not so much. Is it possible? Perhaps yes. Maybe wishful thinking considering expected future of CableCards.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Still a downgrade compared to Roamio Pro as far as the internal stream is concerned. So nothing there to convince me to "upgrade".


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

I really don't get the need for massive disk space. Are you guys trying to save everything you have ever recorded? More and more of my viewing is now streaming which lowers the need for storage even more.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

atmuscarella said:


> TiVo is releasing the most advanced cable DVR the world has ever seen and your conclusion is they are exiting the market? Really? Given you have no interest in buying/owning a cable DVR I can understand finding it boring.
> 
> I am not sure what you thought TiVo was going to release as their premium cable DVR. But just as a reminder this is a needed hardware release, software updates can come at any time.


Eh, it's fine, but look at the general tone of responses on the relevant threads here at TCF -- I don't think I'm alone in being underwhelmed.

Remember what TiVo's marketing head said in his first chat here late last year about how they'd release something in fall 2016 that would excite TiVo enthusiasts? His words back in late 2015:

_We probably couldve delivered a BOLT with two more tuners and a larger HDD and called it a family, but we knew that the marketand especially our loyalistsdeserved much more. Look for something new next year, right on our normal three year cycle._

The Bolt+ doesn't offer "much more" than that. In fact, it's exactly that: a Bolt with two more cable tuners and a larger HDD. (Oh, and it's black instead of that ghastly white.)

There's no support for HDR or for more UHD-capable apps (Amazon? Vudu? anyone?), at least at this point. Advanced streaming was one of the differentiating factors of the Bolt line.

It would also be nice if the Bolt+ could transcode four simultaneous streams like the Roamio Pro can; instead, it can only do two, meaning two streams to mobile devices and web browsers. So it's a step down from the Roamio Pro in that regard.

It does appear that the coax input on the back on the Bolt+ is labeled "cable/ant" so I guess it contains both QAM and OTA tuners like the Bolt. Why not have included two coax inputs and let users simultaneously run both sets of tuners? Maybe the chip that powers this device, apparently the same one as in the Bolt, couldn't handle that. Or maybe it's a matter of heat dissipation. Who knows? But that would've been a nice step-up feature from the Bolt.

Because high-end TiVo users often want expanded storage, it would have been nice if they'd rolled out enhanced support for external add-on USB drives, with an update to the TiVo OS that allowed for intelligent management of which drive recordings are stored to.

All that said, yes, if you're a TiVo fan and you've been using a Premiere or older devices for years, I could see upgrading to the Bolt+ if the pricing suits you. And there may be a few Bolt users who upgrade and sell their Bolt to gain more tuners.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> This is what I was wondering. So is this actually a different and faster CPU than the 4 tuner Bolt has? That would make me even more likely to get the Bolt+...


The initial Bolt had the BCM7445. The Broadcom doc says 21,000 DMIPS, but other sites say TiVo has 11,000 DMIPS. Hmmm ...


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

NashGuy said:


> Remember what TiVo's marketing head said in his first chat here late last year about how they'd release something in fall 2016 that would excite TiVo enthusiasts? His words back in late 2015:
> 
> _We probably couldve delivered a BOLT with two more tuners and a larger HDD and called it a family, but we knew that the marketand especially our loyalistsdeserved much more. Look for something new next year, right on our normal three year cycle._


There's no doubt in my mind that this is not the box that Ira was talking about. If it was, he wouldn't have chosen those words. Whether the box he was talking about will ever see the light of day is anyone's guess.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

NashGuy said:


> All that said, yes, if you're a TiVo fan and you've been using a Premiere or older devices for years, I could see upgrading to the Bolt+ if the pricing suits you. And there may be a few Bolt users who upgrade and sell their Bolt to gain more tuners.


This one! +1

Also, I see brand new TiVo customers getting Bolt+ instead of getting Roamio Pro (why wouldn't they get Bolt+ instead of Roamio Pro, unless TiVo knocks down Roamio Pro's price?).

I agree with you that people currently owning Roamio Pro will have little reason to upgrade to Bolt +.

I do see more people with Bolts get the Bolt + (better storage and two more tuner) - basically what you said.


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## mrsean (May 15, 2006)

Ugh, what a disappointment although I have to say I'm not surprised. The fact that there were no leaks led me to believe that this would be just a 4K Roamio Pro. If there was something innovative about Bolt+ it would have been leaked previously in order to build excitement.

I can't believe that we were made to wait a year for a product Tivo could have released easily anytime between then and now. For now, I'm just hoping that a 12 tuner/6gb hd Bolt Pro is coming before Christmas.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

I'm starting to get concerned that the Bolt+ won't have OTA tuners. Cnet seems to be very sure that it doesn't: http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt-plus/preview/

And the TiVo blog is suspiciously quiet about it: http://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/

If it doesn't have OTA tuners, the Bolt+ will be a major disappointment to me. If it does have OTA tuners, TiVo needs to get out quickly and correct the incorrect information saying that it doesn't.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'm starting to get concerned that the Bolt+ won't have OTA tuners. Cnet seems to be very sure that it doesn't: http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt-plus/preview/
> 
> And the TiVo blog is suspiciously quiet about it: http://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/
> 
> If it doesn't have OTA tuners, the Bolt+ will be a major disappointment to me. If it does have OTA tuners, TiVo needs to get out quickly and correct the incorrect information saying that it doesn't.


Then how do you explain the picture of the back of it?

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12...blacker/#gallery=429047&slide=4055720&index=2


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

thyname said:


> Then how do you explain the picture of the back of it?
> 
> https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12...blacker/#gallery=429047&slide=4055720&index=2


The same way I explain the CableCard door on the Roamio OTA.

If it has OTA tuners, TiVo needs to come out and say it now and also needs to say exactly how many OTA tuners it has, whether it is 6 or just 4.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

tarheelblue32 said:


> The same way I explain the CableCard door on the Roamio OTA.


Well, let's hope the picture is not a fantasy or mistake. That's all we can do for now. I posted on Cnet, so let's see what they have to say on this.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'm starting to get concerned that the Bolt+ won't have OTA tuners. Cnet seems to be very sure that it doesn't: http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt-plus/preview/
> 
> And the TiVo blog is suspiciously quiet about it: http://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/
> 
> If it doesn't have OTA tuners, the Bolt+ will be a major disappointment. If it does have OTA tuners, TiVo needs to get out quickly and correct the incorrect information saying that it doesn't.


Let's assume that the Bolt+ has four OTA tuners in it just like the Bolt. Why would an OTA person pay $200 more for the Bolt+ ($499 for the Bolt+ vs. $299 for the 1TB Bolt)? The only benefit you'd get for that extra $200 (a 67% cost increase) would be an extra 2TB of storage space. But when all you're recording is OTA, how much storage space do you really need? I've never exceeded using 80% of the 500GB drive on my Roamio OTA. And I suspect if you're the kind of hard-core AV guy that *would* want a 3TB drive in your OTA DVR, you'd be willing to upgrade the drive yourself for less money.

For cable subscribers who think they may at some point down the road cut the cord and switch to OTA, I can see why having OTA tuners in the Bolt+ would be a nice perk though. But not a big selling point.

(Now, if it allowed you to use cable AND OTA simultaneously, that might be a big selling point...)


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'm starting to get concerned that the Bolt+ won't have OTA tuners. Cnet seems to be very sure that it doesn't: http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt-plus/preview/ And the TiVo blog is suspiciously quiet about it: http://blog.tivo.com/2016/09/bolt-available-sept-15/ If it doesn't have OTA tuners, the Bolt+ will be a major disappointment to me. If it does have OTA tuners, TiVo needs to get out quickly and correct the incorrect information saying that it doesn't.


The upcoming mantis should fill this OTA role.



thyname said:


> Then how do you explain the picture of the back of it? https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/12/tivo-bolt-plus-bigger-blacker/#gallery=429047&slide=4055720&index=2





tarheelblue32 said:


> The same way I explain the CableCard door on the Roamio OTA. If it has OTA tuners, TiVo needs to come out and say it now and also needs to say exactly how many OTA tuners it has, whether it is 6 or just 4.


And the same way that the Roamio OTA's coax is labeled CABLE/ANT.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

thyname said:


> Also, I see brand new TiVo customers getting Bolt+ instead of getting Roamio Pro (why wouldn't they get Bolt+ instead of Roamio Pro, unless TiVo knocks down Roamio Pro's price?). ...
> 
> I do see more people with Bolts get the Bolt + (better storage and two more tuner) - basically what you said.


Hmmm... It's also quite possible that with the introduction of the BOLT+ TiVo will discontinue the Roamio Pro, after one final clearance sale. There's now enough overlap in features that keeping the Roamio Pro around doesn't make a lot of sense. (And it'll open a new market opportunity for Weaknees, modded BOLT cases for attaching larger capacity external 3.5" HDDs.)


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

HarperVision said:


> The upcoming mantis should fill this OTA role.


Maybe, but it's still disappointing. And we don't yet know how well the Mantis will be integrated into the TiVo ecosystem or how many tuners it will have. I still would have wanted a 6-tuner Bolt+ that worked with antenna to be able to handle recordings and support more Minis. Without OTA tuners, the Bolt+ really isn't that much better than a Roamio Pro, and is therefore disappointing.


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

krkaufman said:


> Hmmm... It's also quite possible that with the introduction of the BOLT+ TiVo will discontinue the Roamio Pro, after one final clearance sale.


I think that's a given.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> The upcoming mantis should fill this OTA role.


Not without A/V outputs -- or unless the Mantis can be configured as additional, integrated tuners for a BOLT+.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

thyname said:


> This one! +1
> 
> Also, I see brand new TiVo customers getting Bolt+ instead of getting Roamio Pro (why wouldn't they get Bolt+ instead of Roamio Pro, unless TiVo knocks down Roamio Pro's price?).


Surely once the Bolt+ becomes available, the Roamio Pro will get moved to the "Outlet" section of the TiVo website to clear out remaining units. I can't see the Roamio Pro living on as part of the current TiVo line-up.

Maybe there will be some bargains to be had on Roamio Pro units getting cleared out in the coming weeks. If you don't care about 4K streaming or the somewhat snappier app-launching, that could be a better route for some folks than a more expensive Bolt+.


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## Alan Gordon (May 15, 2005)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'm starting to get concerned that the Bolt+ won't have OTA tuners. Cnet seems to be very sure that it doesn't: http://www.cnet.com/products/tivo-bolt-plus/preview/


I tweeted @TiVo about it and was told that @TiVoSupport could answer the question. No reply so far...


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

NashGuy said:


> Surely once the Bolt+ becomes available, the Roamio Pro will get moved to the "Outlet" section of the TiVo website to clear out remaining units.


It has been in the "outlet" section since last year.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

Based off of what Ira said what we wouldn't be *just* getting, (2 more tuners, more HDD space) and turns out the Bolt+ is exactly that. I'm willing to reasonably expect maybe one more hardware hurrah coming from the TiVo camp down the road. A Bolt Pro. Maybe? Perhaps?

_"This is not the TiVo you're looking for. Move along. Move along."_


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

OmeneX said:


> Based off of what Ira said what we wouldn't be *just* getting, (2 more tuners, more HDD space) and turns out the Bolt+ is exactly that. I'm willing to reasonably expect maybe one more hardware hurrah coming from the TiVo camp down the road. A Bolt Pro. Maybe? Perhaps?
> 
> _"This is not the TiVo you're looking for. Move along. Move along."_


Plans change, and I think holding out hope for a Bolt Pro at this point may be futile.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Alan Gordon said:


> I tweeted @TiVo about it and was told that @TiVoSupport could answer the question. No reply so far...


You could try tweeting at @IraBahr or @tivodesign (Margret); might get lucky.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

tarheelblue32 said:


> Plans change, and I think holding out hope for a Bolt Pro at this point may be futile.


/sigh

I'll live. I guess.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> It has been in the "outlet" section since last year.


Well, it's also been highlighted as its own product category under the "Shop" header menu, next to Bolt and Roamio OTA, outside of Outlet. But, you're right, when you click on "TiVo Roamio Pro," it takes you to the Outlet.

I expect that soon it will be solely accessible by clicking on the "Outlet" menu choice.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> Not without A/V outputs -- or unless the Mantis can be configured as additional, integrated tuners for a BOLT+.


Yes, that's what I'm saying. We know the Mantis doesn't have AV outs, it's a network tuner like the HDHRs. I'm saying that it will have OTA tuners and it can integrate those into existing Bolt and hopefully Roamio UIs and guides.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

For what it's worth, Dave Zatz reports over on his blog:
"By the by, sources suggest Bolt+ is cable-only irrespective of the press photos and/or labeling."

And given where things stand with the future of CableCARD, plus the internal shifts that may be coming to TiVo post-merger with Rovi, I would be shocked to see a "Bolt Pro" ever come out. The Bolt+ will be the last CableCARD-equipped device that TiVo ever introduces.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Sixto said:


> The initial Bolt had the BCM7445. The Broadcom doc says 21,000 DMIPS, but other sites say TiVo has 11,000 DMIPS. Hmmm ...


The Bolt uses BCM7449. Presumably Bolt+ does too.

Tivo and Broadcom demonstrated a 4K platform using 7445 but didn't go with it.


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

zalusky said:


> I really don't get the need for massive disk space. Are you guys trying to save everything you have ever recorded? More and more of my viewing is now streaming which lowers the need for storage even more.


I never delete any programs on my TiVo. I just let the TiVo manage that. And it is common for me not to watch a series for 4 or 5 weeks and then binge a bunch of episodes at once. Unlike some people, I prefer not to manage my TiVo on a daily basis. I let it do its thing, and when I am in the mood I will watch my shows.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

rainwater said:


> I never delete any programs on my TiVo. I just let the TiVo manage that. And it is common for me not to watch a series for 4 or 5 weeks and then binge a bunch of episodes at once. Unlike some people, I prefer not to manage my TiVo on a daily basis. I let it do its thing, and when I am in the mood I will watch my shows.


While I get saving up a season or something, to me Tivo's navigation is piss poor when it comes to using it as a library and never deleting anything. The now playing list even with the filters becomes crazy unusable if record a lot of different things.

Its kind of the equivalent of hoarding when it comes to Tivo.

If your waiting a long time I would much rather just get the stuff from Netflix and friends.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

NashGuy said:


> Eh, it's fine, but look at the general tone of responses on the relevant threads here at TCF -- I don't think I'm alone in being underwhelmed.
> 
> Remember what TiVo's marketing head said in his first chat here late last year about how they'd release something in fall 2016 that would excite TiVo enthusiasts? His words back in late 2015:
> 
> ...


I am a realist, we have known for awhile that Bolt sales where not very good or at least not as good as what Ira had indicated would be needed to provide a Bolt Pro targeted at enthusiasts.

That's why we got this Bolt Plus that likely could have been released last fall. That doesn't negate the fact that it is still the high end cable DVR (I still have doubts that it will be able to do OTA and I see no reason why it should, as no OTA only user is going to buy it).

I have never bought into this upgrade for the sake of upgrading business, so the fact that many (most?) Roamio Plus/Pro owners don't see a need to upgrade seems more realistic to me than expecting otherwise.

If TiVo truly was going to release a Bolt Pro targeted at enthusiast, I agree having easier to upgrade 3.5 inch drives, the ability to trans-code and stream to more than 2 devices, and having the ability to record from cable & OTA at the same time would have all been welcome hard ware upgrades.

Everything else you mention is a software upgrade/change which can be done to the existing hardware (and would be features existing Bolt owners would like) if TiVo decides to do so. TiVo could also "fix" the 2 trans-code/stream limit if they wanted too by allowing the Stand alone Stream device to also work with the Bolt & Bolt plus.

In the end I don't disagree that this hardware release is boring. I have found lots of TiVo's hard ware releases boring (and I bought most of them). It is what I expected after all it is just a DVR. But it is a needed hardware release as they really needed to replace the Roamio Pro.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

NashGuy said:


> For what it's worth, Dave Zatz reports over on his blog:
> "By the by, sources suggest Bolt+ is cable-only irrespective of the press photos and/or labeling."
> 
> And given where things stand with the future of CableCARD, plus the internal shifts that may be coming to TiVo post-merger with Rovi, I would be shocked to see a "Bolt Pro" ever come out. The Bolt+ will be the last CableCARD-equipped device that TiVo ever introduces.


Thanks for the info blurb from Dave Z Nash.

In my previous post concerning a possible Bolt Pro down the line - I was being a bit facetious.

But honestly. When really considering it - Ira basically said point for point that they knew exactly what we TiVo fans wouldn't want - and then released that exact product. Hah!

TiVo couldn't possibly have changed hardware and design and release in less then the month that Ira answered our questions - so it does lend credence to the fact that Ira was either....

A) Talking about a different TiVo other then the Bolt+
B) Was umm.. not being straight with us? lol
C) The TCF community read into the answer to much?

Now will we ever see this other TiVo? I can agree with the crowd here and say - there is a high chance we may not see it. Ever. But, I would also admit there is a strong desire for one more release and there would be some excitement still left in the air.

Depending on your own....perspective.

I for one think it exist. Well, at least on paper @ TiVo HQ it does.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

zalusky said:


> I really don't get the need for massive disk space. Are you guys trying to save everything you have ever recorded? More and more of my viewing is now streaming which lowers the need for storage even more.


if I was trying to save everything I would need many times more space than I currently have. I use a 6TB drive in my TiVo PC, a 5TB drive in my Roamio Pro, and 4TB drives in my two Bolts. If I get a Bolt+ I would like to be able to use at least a 6TB drive with it. But preferably an 8TB drive.


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## tomhorsley (Jul 22, 2010)

What on earth does the streaming "4" versus "1-2" mean? Can it do 1 stream or 2 streams? Or maybe it means it can only stream 1 if it is something really difficult to transcode, otherwise it can do 2?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

tomhorsley said:


> What on earth does the streaming "4" versus "1-2" mean? Can it do 1 stream or 2 streams? Or maybe it means it can only stream 1 if it is something really difficult to transcode, otherwise it can do 2?


I believe it means two streams in-home, one stream out-of-home.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

tomhorsley said:


> What on earth does the streaming "4" versus "1-2" mean? Can it do 1 stream or 2 streams? Or maybe it means it can only stream 1 if it is something really difficult to transcode, otherwise it can do 2?


I had the same reaction when I read that "4" versus "1-2" part of the article as well Tom.

Reading along then suddenly, full stop! ---- WTH? Hmm.. must think on this whole "4" versus "1-2"????

Does the author mean, "or" is a " - ' their substitute for "or"? Is it an editorial glitch? Does the author think of streaming in terms of page #'s? Like page 1-2? As in pages 1 *thru* 2? So thus, streams 1 thru 2?

Does it mean streams 1 and up TO 2? But _if_ that was the case couldn't you just say streams 2? 2 is greater then 1, so thus it's implied? So "4" versus "2" would have been better.

But is that what the article means? I'm not sure... is there something about the Bolt's streaming capabilities I don't know about? Should I look this up? Google time? "1-2"? ... "1-2"? .... "1-2"?

In the end I shrugged, said "whatever" and moved on.

After much mental gymanstics, I'm pretty sure it means -- 1 or 2 streams. One out of home, and 2 in home. I'm like 99.99% sure that's what it means. 

*Edit*
_"Hehe, BigJim beat me to it!"_


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

I really don't see the big deal about stream restrictions. I doubt many people are streaming to multiple devices at once. I think that note in the article is going to confuse people and think it affects Minis or other TiVos.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

OmeneX said:


> Thanks for the info blurb from Dave Z Nash.
> 
> In my previous post concerning a possible Bolt Pro down the line - I was being a bit facetious.
> 
> ...


Well, I think Ira did have in mind last year plans for something more ambitious than the Bolt+ that's now seeing the light of day. Who knows what that was (a high-end non-Bolt in a rack-mountable form factor? with a more powerful chipset? with simultaneous CableCARD and OTA tuners? with voice-powered remote? with Dolby Vision HDR? with auto-integration to certain local NAS devices?).

But in the end, financial prudence won out. No point risking the money on developing and producing a substantially upgraded hardware platform when retail TiVos just aren't selling that well.

Instead, they took the existing Bolt, colored the plastic black, swapped out 6 QAM tuners in place 4 QAM tuners + 4 OTA tuners, and upgraded the 2.5" HDD to 3 TB. No need for any sort of upgrade to the TiVo software. You can see how the same manufacturing production lines that produced the original Bolt could easily switch over to producing the Bolt+.

As I said before, underwhelming. But TiVo fans should probably be glad that a successor to the Roamio Pro is even coming to market at all.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

OmeneX said:


> Thanks for the info blurb from Dave Z Nash.
> 
> In my previous post concerning a possible Bolt Pro down the line - I was being a bit facetious.
> 
> ...


I think you are mixing up some things. The conversation where Ira talked about a Bolt Pro version targeted at enthusiasts was October of 2015, almost a year ago. In that conversation he also specifically stated the Bolt would have to "expand our market" (which to me means sell well) or TiVo would not be able to do much of anything. The fact that this release is a Bolt Plus (not a Bolt Pro) pretty much tells us what we suspected, the Bolt didn't expand TiVo's market enough, if at all.

The failure to release the Bolt OTA is also of concern as TiVo apparently decided they could not get the price low enough to get typical OTA users to buy it and instead went back to producing the older and cheaper Roamio OTA, hopefully this network attached OTA solution coming next year will be something that sells well.


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## Blakeintosh (Sep 8, 2014)

Anyone remember the TiVo Mega announcement a couple of years back? Ira said in his AMA to stay tuned in regards to the Mega.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

atmuscarella said:


> I think you are mixing up some things. The conversation where Ira talked about a Bolt Pro version targeted at enthusiasts was October of 2015, almost a year ago.


Thanks for the clarification! I followed along with the wave and prescribed that Oct conversation to the recent Q&A. Which simply states they would have an announcement.

To be clear, at any rate. I do agree with the general consensus and product realities for a Bolt Pro.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

I would consider getting the Bolt+ lifetime and selling my two Premiere lifetimes, and then just getting a Mini for the bedroom - IF the Minis work well. I've never really seen a definitive answer on that.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

I posted a comment on Cnet re: Bolt+ having antenna tuners. This is what they commented just recently:

joshua.goldman 24 minutes ago
@thyname TiVo just confirmed, "BOLT+ does not do OTA."


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

b_scott said:


> I would consider getting the Bolt+ lifetime and selling my two Premiere lifetimes, and then just getting a Mini for the bedroom - IF the Minis work well. I've never really seen a definitive answer on that.


I have 3 Minis and they work quite well.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Excellent, thank you. Anyone here had luck getting Lifetime transferred to a Bolt? (for a price of course)

edit: according to the recent AMA:

"We originally released the Mini in 2012 and it's definitely due for a refresh. Look to the first half of next year for an update to the Mini that will be UHD 4K compatible."

Guess I'll be waiting until first half of 2017 and then decide. Hopefully my Premieres are worth something by then.


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## Sixto (Sep 16, 2005)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> The Bolt uses BCM7449. Presumably Bolt+ does too.
> 
> Tivo and Broadcom demonstrated a 4K platform using 7445 but didn't go with it.


Thanks. Also seeing both 21,000 DMIPS and 11,000 DMIPS in some places. Also just saw 12,000 DMIPS is another document. Not finding a Broadcom official datasheet with the DMIPS.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

If the new Mantis can act as an external OTA tuner for the Bolt+ then it may not matter that the Bolt+ doesn't do OTA. 

Only thing I'm really disappointed with here is the price. You'd think that with the elimination of the included 1 year of service they could come in a little cheaper. Do two extra tuners and a bigger HDD really justify a $200 price premium? If it were $100 cheaper I might consider getting one to replace my Roamio. I like the faster apps on my current Bolt. (being used for OTA only at the moment)


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> If the new Mantis can act as an external OTA tuner for the Bolt+ then it may not matter that the Bolt+ doesn't do OTA.
> 
> Only thing I'm really disappointed with here is the price. You'd think that with the elimination of the included 1 year of service they could come in a little cheaper. Do two extra tuners and a bigger HDD really justify a $200 price premium? If it were $100 cheaper I might consider getting one to replace my Roamio. I like the faster apps on my current Bolt. (being used for OTA only at the moment)


The Bolt+ is now their flagship product, so you have to expect to pay a premium for it. The 1TB Bolt is $100 more than the 500GB Bolt. So $200 more for 3TB and 2 more tuners seems reasonable. Especially since those larger 2.5" hard drives are a good bit more expensive.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

tarheelblue32 said:


> The 1TB Bolt is $100 more than the 500GB Bolt. So $200 more for 3TB and 2 more tuners seems reasonable. Especially since those larger 2.5" hard drives are a good bit more expensive. The Bolt+ is their flagship product, so you have to expect to pay a premium for it.


The Roamio Pro was $600 when released and at the time lifetime was only $500. So the Bolt+ is essentially the same price for a cheaper product. The Roamio Pro is old technology now, but at the time 3TB was the biggest HDD you could get and the transcoder chip it has built in was state of the art, and expensive. Not to mention it had an internal power supply, more rack friendly case, and component video out.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> The Roamio Pro was $600 when released and at the time lifetime was only $500. So the Bolt+ is essentially the same price for a cheaper product. The Roamio Pro is old technology now, but at the time 3TB was the biggest HDD you could get and the transcoder chip it has built in was state of the art, and expensive. Not to mention it had an internal power supply, more rack friendly case, and component video out.


It's actually $50 cheaper. Bolt+ is $500 and lifetime "all-in" is $550. Plus there is inflation to factor in. And the Bolt+ box is also much smaller than the Roamio Pro box, and miniaturization costs money.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> If the new Mantis can act as an external OTA tuner for the Bolt+ then it may not matter that the Bolt+ doesn't do OTA.
> 
> Only thing I'm really disappointed with here is the price. You'd think that with the elimination of the included 1 year of service they could come in a little cheaper. Do two extra tuners and a bigger HDD really justify a $200 price premium? If it were $100 cheaper I might consider getting one to replace my Roamio. I like the faster apps on my current Bolt. (being used for OTA only at the moment)


With lifetime/all in at $550 I think all the Bolts are over priced. That said if TiVo doesn't start high enough they wouldn't be able to offer anyone special deals. Perhaps this time around they will start offering existing customers email specials fairly soon. After all they really couldn't have spent much extra doing the Bolt Plus hard ware development.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

IDK it seems to expensive to me. The upgrade from the Premiere 4 to the Roamio was a no brainer. 2 extra tuners, much faster CPU and built in Stream, so the cost wasn't really a big consideration. But there is really nothing about the Bolt+, compared to the Roamio Pro, that's going to get me to spend $1,100 to upgrade. It's faster, sure, but the Roamio is fast enough for most things and it has better transcoding capabilities. Maybe if I had a 4k TV I'd care, but I don't and don't plan to get one any time soon. But even then it only does Netflix and YouTube in 4K so I'm not sure how much use that would get anyway.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Now I'm wondering if we'll be getting a new faster, 4K capable, Mini to go with these boxes. The current Mini is much longer in the tooth then the Roamio. It's technically still using Premier generation hardware. (although it's slightly faster then the Premiere)

Or maybe they're going to focus on apps for devices like Roku and FireTV since they'll need those for the Mantis?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> IDK it seems to expensive to me. The upgrade from the Premiere 4 to the Roamio was a no brainer. 2 extra tuners, much faster CPU and built in Stream, so the cost wasn't really a big consideration. But there is really nothing about the Bolt+, compared to the Roamio Pro, that's going to get me to spend $1,100 to upgrade. It's faster, sure, but the Roamio is fast enough for most things and it has better transcoding capabilities. Maybe if I had a 4k TV I'd care, but I don't and don't plan to get one any time soon. But even then it only does Netflix and YouTube in 4K so I'm not sure how much use that would get anyway.


Ya I paid $590 with lifetime for my base Roamio near release and thought it was a great deal. My Premiere really sucked at that time, the HD UI sucked, the apps sucked, the OTA tuners sucked and I was on my third hard drive.

When I first started using my Roamio I was amazed at how much better it was and found I really liked having 4 tuners in one box. While my Bolt is clearly better in nearly every way, if it had not been a gift and I had paid the current $750 cost with all in I would not think it was worth the cost to upgrade, even if I could have netted $350ish from the Roamio's sale. Got to believe it will be the same for most people with Roamio Plus/Pro units with lifetime on them looking at $1050 for a Bolt Plus with all in.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> Now I'm wondering if we'll be getting a new faster, 4K capable, Mini to go with these boxes. The current Mini is much longer in the tooth then the Roamio. It's technically still using Premier generation hardware. (although it's slightly faster then the Premiere)
> 
> Or maybe they're going to focus on apps for devices like Roku and FireTV since they'll need those for the Mantis?


Maybe both if they decide to also have the Mantis work with Minis. If they could keep a 4K Mini at $150 it would not be that bad of a deal.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

atmuscarella said:


> Maybe both if they decide to also have the Mantis work with Minis. If they could keep a 4K Mini at $150 it would not be that bad of a deal.


I think that's unlikely. I'm guessing a 4K Mini will retail for $199-$249 out of the gate.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I'm guessing a 4K Mini will retail for $199-$249 out of the gate.


Le ouch! $$

I too think this Bolt+ is a little high priced. I'm trying to rationalize it by thinking they have access to a new 3TB A/V style 2.5 size drive. Which would deff ramp up the cost. (Plus the two tuners too) Since I don't know of any current or announced in the consumer marketspace yet. That, or the new black paint job.


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## Riverdome (May 12, 2005)

All this talk of how expensive the new Bolt is makes me shutter. I bought my S3 when it was first released for $800 plus the cost of lifetime. HD DVR was worth every penny!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Riverdome said:


> All this talk of how expensive the new Bolt is makes me shutter. I bought my S3 when it was first released for $800 plus the cost of lifetime. HD DVR was worth every penny!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


But lifetime at the time was only $300. So you essentially paid the same as the new Bolt.

In the world of technology people expect things to get cheaper over time. TiVo has decreased the cost of the box itself, but offset it by increasing the cost of the service, so it's been a wash for the better part of a decade.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

Dan203 said:


> But lifetime at the time was only $300. So you essentially paid the same as the new Bolt.
> 
> In the world of technology people expect things to get cheaper over time. TiVo has decreased the cost of the box itself, but offset it by increasing the cost of the service, so it's been a wash for the better part of a decade.


Technology really hasn't been getting cheaper for the last few years. Things like high-end smartphones and laptops get better, but they don't really get cheaper anymore.


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## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

Is the "stream" integration as kludgy in the current bolt as it in the the Roamio series? Because it's unacceptable in the Roamio, as far as I'm concerned. If it works in this new box, I might consider upgrading. Otherwise, $1K goes pretty far in the iTunes Store.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

OmeneX said:


> Le ouch! $$
> 
> I too think this Bolt+ is a little high priced. I'm trying to rationalize it by thinking they have access to a new 3TB A/V style 2.5 size drive. Which would deff ramp up the cost. (Plus the two tuners too) Since I don't know of any current or announced in the consumer marketspace yet. That, or the new black paint job.


Do we know for sure that the Bolt+ has a single 3TB A/V drive in it or could it perhaps have a 2TB + 1TB dual-drive set-up? Does anyone even know of a commercially available 3TB 2.5-inch A/V HDD?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

duncan7 said:


> Is the "stream" integration as kludgy in the current bolt as it in the the Roamio series? Because it's unacceptable in the Roamio, as far as I'm concerned. If it works in this new box, I might consider upgrading. Otherwise, $1K goes pretty far in the iTunes Store.


It works fine for me. I've been streaming out of home regularly these last couple of weeks. from my two Bolts with no issues. It's been working very well.


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> But lifetime at the time was only $300. So you essentially paid the same as the new Bolt.
> 
> In the world of technology people expect things to get cheaper over time. TiVo has decreased the cost of the box itself, but offset it by increasing the cost of the service, *so it's been a wash for the better part of a decade.*


Ya. The iPhone approach. With inflation, keeping the price the same is actually a slight reduction in cost.

And you are, presumably, getting better performance than the last time you spent $1100, though in the case of the Roamio vs. the Bolt, I'm not sure. The Roamio's dedicated transcoding chipset still beats the Bolt, from what I've read.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

And with the recent devaluation of all TiVos back to the Premiere due to the guide data "upgrade" the fair price of this should be at least 1/3 less.

They should have
1TB Roamio OTA $300 all-in
0.5TB Bolt $400 all-in
1.0TB Bolt $500 all-in
3.0TB Bolt+ $700 all-in


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## Steve (Apr 24, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> It works fine for me. I've been streaming out of home regularly these last couple of weeks. from my two Bolts with no issues. It's been working very well.


Same here. I've used OOH for a couple of hours at a time about 4 times in the past month with no issues. Very good PQ as well.


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## wco81 (Dec 28, 2001)

So the only 4K support is the Netflix and Youtube apps?

And it may not even be HDR 4K?

You get 4K streaming apps. on the TV at least.


Well at least it's a new DVR since Rovi took over.

Be more impressed if they put out a DVR which supports ATSC 3.0 and whatever system supports cable 4K channels.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

Cable 4K channels - that's rich... I will be impressed if the cable companies ever send out true 1080...


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## mangochutney (Apr 7, 2015)

tarheelblue32 said:


> ...And the Bolt+ box is also much smaller than the Roamio Pro box, and miniaturization costs money.


R&D yes perhaps, but manufacture, ship, store, absolutely not.
The price hike has more to do with the 3TB 2.5" recording drive than anything else...

As for the service charges, that's just nuts. For the crappy Rovi data too lol.
I bet Rovi bigwigs got their toes wet on that one.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

bradleys said:


> Cable 4K channels - that's rich... I will be impressed if the cable companies ever send out true 1080...


Amen! (Are you reading this "Con"cast?)


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

bradleys said:


> Cable 4K channels - that's rich... I will be impressed if the cable companies ever send out true 1080...


Rogers cable up in Canada offers four UHD sports channels, although I think they're IP rather than QAM.


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## Series3Sub (Mar 14, 2010)

atmuscarella said:


> TiVo is releasing the most advanced cable DVR the world has ever seen and your conclusion is they are exiting the market? Really? Given you have no interest in buying/owning a cable DVR I can understand finding it boring.
> 
> I am not sure what you thought TiVo was going to release as their premium cable DVR. But just as a reminder this is a needed hardware release, software updates can come at any time.


Um, I think the 16 tuner Dish Hopper 3 could be considered the most advanced compared to a 4K version of the Roamio Plus. But moving on:

The point the TiVo power-users are making is that, given the 16 tuner H3 with Sports Bar mode (4 Pictures/channels on one screen, to be updated to SIX on one screen) along with the new voice capable remote, everyone was expecting something beyond the _" . . . we could have added 2 more tuners and more HDD capacity and called it family,"_ as stated by Ira in his Q and A, but, instead we have been given exactly what Ira said would be NOT particularly _"worthy" _ of a high end Bolt for power users.

I think Cable Card is limited to 6 tuners, but power users may have been expecting for the Bolt+ to have the option of another cable card bringing the total of 12 tuners (still 4 less than the H3). Now that would have been a wow factor. Also, far more storage would made this Bolt+ even more enticing for those looking to upgrade. But, in its place, TiVo rolled out what is essentially a Roamio Pro under as a Bolt+. Yes, later, faster processor and more RAM, but those aren't the killer features TiVo power users crave. Far more tuners and far more internal capacity included are the the first two big things on the list, and the lack of a voice remote is pretty glaring considering Rovi licenses voice remote technology (yes, the Bolt+ was in the pipe line before Rovi's acquisition of TiVo). And it matters not if you or I dislike voice remotes; the point is that everyone else has them from DircTV to Dish, to some connected devices like the Fire TV, eta ls. So, TiVo just adds a mere 2 tuners and up to 3TB storage, which many TiVo powers users seem to indicate is inadequate storage for their uses of higher end TiVo's.

This change to an underwhelming Bolt+ affirms, IMHO, that this is TiVo's swan song for its retail traditional DVR as we have known them. This is the _LAST_ one. Don't look for any future models of traditional DVR's as stand alone boxes as we haven known them from TiVo to be ever offered to retail. After September 15, it is on to the Mantis and whatever universe (or cloud) it will take us. TiVo will still be around, but as a meta-data company who also dabbles in Tablo TV or simple.tv like boxes with possible cloud fetures, not anything like the Bolt line. Sadly, it is a really weak and underwhelming swan song for the traditional DVR sung by TiVo.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

Looks like I'll be on the lookout for used Roamio Pros or Pluses to replace the wife's XL4. She needs skip mode. I'm fine with my upgraded Plus. Can't see paying that kind of money for Bolt+ for minimal improvements over the Roamios.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

zalusky said:


> I really don't get the need for massive disk space. Are you guys trying to save everything you have ever recorded?


No, but we're trying to record everything in HD.

I admittedly record a lot of non-prime-time or documentary stuff in SD "still".. and have tons of that taking up space.. (e.g. tons of late night talk shows) But just plain moving most of my prime time shows to HD takes up a LOT of space.

and yes, in theory, I *would* want to keep even more stuff, but in reality, I delete stuff after I watch it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

generaltso said:


> I have two Roamio Pros, each with an additional 1TB external drive attached, and I still run out of space.


Do you mean you have the stock drive in them?

You can just plop a 3 TB drive in a Roamio Pro and it will "just work".. (Obviously it doesn't copy the stuff from your existing drive(s)). I think you can go to 4 TB with extra tools..
(P4 can go to 6 TB I think...)


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mattack said:


> Do you mean you have the stock drive in them?
> 
> You can just plop a 3 TB drive in a Roamio Pro and it will "just work".. (Obviously it doesn't copy the stuff from your existing drive(s)). I think you can go to 4 TB with extra tools..
> (P4 can go to 6 TB I think...)


I put a 5TB drive in my Romaio Pro using msfr. At the time I think 6TB was the max. It might be higher now.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Series3Sub said:


> ........ and the lack of a voice remote is pretty glaring considering Rovi licenses voice remote technology (yes, the Bolt+ was in the pipe line before Rovi's acquisition of TiVo). And it matters not if you or I dislike voice remotes; the point is that everyone else has them from DirecTV to Dish, to some connected devices like the Fire TV, eta ls. ...........
> 
> This change to an underwhelming Bolt+ affirms, IMHO, that this is TiVo's swan song for its retail traditional DVR as we have known them. This is the _LAST_ one. Don't look for any future models of traditional DVR's as stand alone boxes as we haven known them from TiVo to be ever offered to retail. After September 15, it is on to the Mantis and whatever universe (or cloud) it will take us. TiVo will still be around, but as a meta-data company who also dabbles in Tablo TV or simple.tv like boxes with possible cloud fetures, not anything like the Bolt line. Sadly, it is a really weak and underwhelming swan song for the traditional DVR sung by TiVo.


You mean like this? 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10997140#post10997140


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

mattack said:


> Do you mean you have the stock drive in them?
> 
> You can just plop a 3 TB drive in a Roamio Pro and it will "just work".. (Obviously it doesn't copy the stuff from your existing drive(s)). I think you can go to 4 TB with extra tools..


Yes, I have the stock drives in them, which are already 3TB. The external drives bring them up to 4TB. Not sure where you're going.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Riverdome said:


> All this talk of how expensive the new Bolt is makes me *shutter.* I bought my S3 when it was first released for $800 plus the cost of lifetime. HD DVR was worth every penny!


[pedant]The word you're looking for is shudder...[/pedant]


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Maybe he's saying he ran in his house and closed all the "shutters"?


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## innocentfreak (Aug 25, 2001)

zalusky said:


> I really don't get the need for massive disk space. Are you guys trying to save everything you have ever recorded? More and more of my viewing is now streaming which lowers the need for storage even more.


Yes.

I don't stream unless it is something I know I won't fast forward, rewind, slow motion, or any other trickplay like say a comedy. Streaming doesn't give me the control to trickplay shows like a recording does and until it does it won't be suitable replacement for me.

I also have no faith the show I want to watch in the future will be available for streaming.


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## tgdc (Sep 13, 2016)

Slightly different question that the many here who already have all-in subs: I have a Roamio Pro with annual. I'm thinking my calculus is I can get the new Bolt+ for $500 and probably sell the RP used for $250 (they actually go for more on eBay but I assume the bolt+ willlower the demand). So is it worth $250 to upgrade. For me, the main thing would be the speed of switching to Amazon, Netflix, etc. But what I'm not aware of: is there anything on the bolt+ which is known to be worse? I've heard people mention the transcoding chip. Does the bolt+ not have transcoding? Thanks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

mattack said:


> No, but we're trying to record everything in HD. I admittedly record a lot of non-prime-time or documentary stuff in SD "still".. and have tons of that taking up space.. (e.g. tons of late night talk shows) But just plain moving most of my prime time shows to HD takes up a LOT of space. and yes, in theory, I *would* want to keep even more stuff, but in reality, I delete stuff after I watch it.


I watch a ton of tv. I record everything in HD. The most my 1/2 terabyte bolt has gotten to in a year is 20% full.

I delete things after I watch. If I want it long term, I but a Dvd or put it on Plex.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

generaltso said:


> Yes, I have the stock drives in them, which are already 3TB. The external drives bring them up to 4TB. Not sure where you're going.


I already have 4TB drives in my White Bolts. If I get the Bolt + I want to use a 6TB or 8TB drive with it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

tgdc said:


> Slightly different question that the many here who already have all-in subs: I have a Roamio Pro with annual. I'm thinking my calculus is I can get the new Bolt+ for $500 and probably sell the RP used for $250 (they actually go for more on eBay but I assume the bolt+ willlower the demand). So is it worth $250 to upgrade. For me, the main thing would be the speed of switching to Amazon, Netflix, etc. But what I'm not aware of: is there anything on the bolt+ which is known to be worse? I've heard people mention the transcoding chip. Does the bolt+ not have transcoding? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The Bolt can only transcode two concurrent streams. WHile the Roamio Pro can transcode four concurrent streams.


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## mangochutney (Apr 7, 2015)

How does everyone feel about those little 2.5" drives and their longevity compared to a NAS style 3.5"?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

mangochutney said:


> How does everyone feel about those little 2.5" drives and their longevity compared to a NAS style 3.5"?


No idea. Only that so far the two, 2.5", 4TB drives I put in my Bolts in OCtober 2015 are still running without issues.

I would have preferred a Bolt+ with a large enough chassis to use 3.5" drives. Since they are available in larger sizes and also cost less, it would have been a better solution for a user that plans to upgrade the drive.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

tgdc said:


> Slightly different question that the many here who already have all-in subs: I have a Roamio Pro with annual. I'm thinking my calculus is I can get the new Bolt+ for $500 and probably sell the RP used for $250 (they actually go for more on eBay but I assume the bolt+ willlower the demand). So is it worth $250 to upgrade. For me, the main thing would be the speed of switching to Amazon, Netflix, etc. But what I'm not aware of: is there anything on the bolt+ which is known to be worse? I've heard people mention the transcoding chip. Does the bolt+ not have transcoding? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





aaronwt said:


> The Bolt can only transcode two concurrent streams. WHile the Roamio Pro can transcode four concurrent streams.


 Not only that. The worse problem is the Bolt can only transcode programs recorded on the Bolt itself. In comparison the Roamio built in stream can transcode from any series 4 or later TiVo on your home network.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

mangochutney said:


> How does everyone feel about those little 2.5" drives and their longevity compared to a NAS style 3.5"?


The longevity is about the same. 2.5" drives fail earlier in notebooks because people frequently move them while the hard drive is still spinning.

The other problem is getting high capacity drives that are PMR and not SMR. 3 TB is the current limit for PMR, more or less. I'd like to know what hard drive they chose to use in the Bolt+, as Bolt users could upgrade to that drive.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> The Roamio Pro was $600 when released and at the time lifetime was only $500. So the Bolt+ is essentially the same price for a cheaper product. The Roamio Pro is old technology now, but at the time 3TB was the biggest HDD you could get and the transcoder chip it has built in was state of the art, and expensive. Not to mention it had an internal power supply, more rack friendly case, and component video out.


in 2010, my Premiere XL was the big flagship one and it was $400, plus $300 for lifetime. So I paid $700 total. These days (and the Roamio too) that cost inflated to $1050-1100 for the same experience. An increase of about 50% in just a few years.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

aaronwt said:


> The Bolt can only transcode two concurrent streams. WHile the Roamio Pro can transcode four concurrent streams.


Note that the BOLT is further limited to only 1 out-of-home (OOH) stream, at the present time. (I don't know if there are plans to fix this.)



moyekj said:


> Not only that. The worse problem is the Bolt can only transcode programs recorded on the Bolt itself. In comparison the Roamio built in stream can transcode from any series 4 or later TiVo on your home network.


Can a TiVo Stream (or Roamio Plus/Pro) also stream content from a TiVo BOLT, including the ability to get around the above "1 OOH stream" limit of the BOLT series?



aaronwt said:


> I would have preferred a Bolt+ with a large enough chassis to use 3.5" drives. Since they are available in larger sizes and also cost less, it would have been a better solution for a user that plans to upgrade the drive.


Yeah, I'm still a bit baffled by the shift to the smaller BOLT profile. Did marketing research really indicate that how the device looks is a bigger factor in sales than cost and functionality? Oh well...


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

krkaufman said:


> Note that the BOLT is further limited to only 1 out-of-home (OOH) stream, at the present time. (I don't know if there are plans to fix this.)


Doubtful, as I'm sure it has to transcode it pretty small on the fly in order to not kill your bandwidth.


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## alarson83 (Oct 27, 2009)

Yeah, i just dont know that i can justify the increase from my roamio. 

Its a little bit faster, sure, but im not sure that'll make enough of a difference.

Smaller, but mine sits on a wire rack in a closet, so i'm not sure that matters either. 

Plus i'm guessing i wouldnt be able to transfer over my existing $6\month subscription thats on my roamio to it. 

4k streaming? I havent made the 4k transition yet, but when i do, seems i would be better off just getting a roku or getting it whenever i make my next xbox upgrade (next year's project scorpio looks promising)


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## generaltso (Nov 4, 2003)

alarson83 said:


> Yeah, i just dont know that i can justify the increase from my roamio.
> 
> Its a little bit faster, sure, but im not sure that'll make enough of a difference.


Yup, I'm in the same boat. I'd love to have the streaming apps load faster than they do on my Roamio Pro, but that's not enough to justify the cost to upgrade. If the Bolt+ could be had with a 6TB or more drive, I'd pay for it, even if the tuners didn't increase past 6.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Don't trust 'em yet.

Many people here report having their 2.5" upgrade drives die in a short period of time.

If my Roamio died I'd buy the (new version) Roamio OTA & swap in the CableCard bracket.

I don't see the need for a physically smaller unit - I often take my Roamio with its 400+ hours of shows on vacation.

Or faster apps, of those I use- Amazon/Hulu/Netflix work fine on my Roamio.

If someone really wants to experiment with their Bolt there is now a 4TB SATA SSD available...street price around $1400.



mangochutney said:


> How does everyone feel about those little 2.5" drives and their longevity compared to a NAS style 3.5"?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

tgdc said:


> Slightly different question that the many here who already have all-in subs: I have a Roamio Pro with annual. I'm thinking my calculus is I can get the new Bolt+ for $500 and probably sell the RP used for $250 (they actually go for more on eBay but I assume the bolt+ willlower the demand). So is it worth $250 to upgrade. For me, the main thing would be the speed of switching to Amazon, Netflix, etc. But what I'm not aware of: is there anything on the bolt+ which is known to be worse? I've heard people mention the transcoding chip. Does the bolt+ not have transcoding? Thanks.


As pointed out above, the transcoding chip in the Bolts are very inferior to the one in the Roamio Pro. And the resale value on TiVos without lifetime service isn't very good. I think you might be overestimating how much you could get for selling your Roamio on ebay.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

krkaufman said:


> ..........
> 
> Can a TiVo Stream (or Roamio Plus/Pro) also stream content from a TiVo BOLT, including the ability to get around the above "1 OOH stream" limit of the BOLT series?
> 
> ....


I know it used to be able to. When the Bolt was initially limited to one transcoded stream in the home, I could stream more shows than the one. Because it used my Roamio Pro to route the shows from my Bolt for transcoding.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

Series3Sub said:


> Um, I think the 16 tuner Dish Hopper 3 could be considered the most advanced compared to a 4K version of the Roamio Plus. But moving on:
> 
> The point the TiVo power-users are making is that, given the 16 tuner H3 with Sports Bar mode (4 Pictures/channels on one screen, to be updated to SIX on one screen) along with the new voice capable remote, everyone was expecting something beyond the _" . . . we could have added 2 more tuners and more HDD capacity and called it family,"_ as stated by Ira in his Q and A, but, instead we have been given exactly what Ira said would be NOT particularly _"worthy" _ of a high end Bolt for power users.


The Bolt+ is a "me too" product, as I thought it would be. FIOS and Comcast already have similar products. This is an upper-tier DVR.

But I don't know how many power users are out there who would buy a third-party ultra-high-end product. Probably not enough to justify building one. And what would Tivo charge for it? Would anybody buy it?

Typically high-tier devices are used as a marketing ploy. Few people buy them and you always lose money on them. Tivo is probably not in good enough financial shape to release one at this time. If ever.

If you need more tuners and storage, Tivo's solution is to just buy two DVRs. FIOS Quantum supports 12 tuners by having 2 six-tuner boxes.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> I watch a ton of tv. I record everything in HD. The most my 1/2 terabyte bolt has gotten to in a year is 20% full.
> 
> I delete things after I watch. If I want it long term, I but a Dvd or put it on Plex.


+1. I confess I'll never understand the hoarder mentality that requires use of multi-TB drives for way more stuff than you could possibly watch, but there are plenty of those folks here. And even if you wanted to hoard all that stuff it's easy to offload it all to a PC running Plex or whatever, you don't need huge drives in Tivos.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

slowbiscuit said:


> And even if you wanted to hoard all that stuff it's easy to offload it all to a PC running Plex or whatever, you don't need huge drives in Tivos.


It's difficult to see how the suggested alternative could ever be as easy or as power-efficient as just slapping a 4-8TB drive into your Roamio Pro and not having to worry about it. I get the value of the alternative, but different people have different needs & requirements; hopefully TiVo will continue to allow the flexibility to choose.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

OmeneX said:


> Based off of what Ira said what we wouldn't be *just* getting, (2 more tuners, more HDD space) and turns out the Bolt+ is exactly that. I'm willing to reasonably expect maybe one more hardware hurrah coming from the TiVo camp down the road. A Bolt Pro. Maybe? Perhaps?
> 
> _"This is not the TiVo you're looking for. Move along. Move along."_


Ira said a lot of things that were a little short being truthful.


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## ah30k (Jan 9, 2006)

lpwcomp said:


> Ira said a lot of things that were a little short being truthful.


Which do you claim, do you think he was not 
truthful, nothing but the truth or the whole truth?


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## keenanSR (Oct 13, 2004)

ah30k said:


> Which do you claim, do you think he was not
> truthful, nothing but the truth or the whole truth?


He's the chief of marketing, that should answer your question.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

lpwcomp said:


> Ira said a lot of things that were a little short being truthful.


Ira said their retail strategy wasn't as successful as they needed it to be and that the bolt was meant to be a strategic stretch in the model.

I really do not think they saw much of a change in their sales numbers - and I think that is why we really aren't seeing much more than refreshed bolt.

I consider the Mantis to be the next "strategic test" of the TiVo line and that is likely where the R&D dollars went instead.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

ah30k said:


> Which do you claim, do you think he was not
> truthful, nothing but the truth or the whole truth?


He said the program information change was an upgrade.

He at least implied that most things transferred back to a transitioned TiVo would have its metadata converted. Totally false.

He said that all of the TiVos already had the new s/w when in reality there are still some units that haven't received it.

Is that enough?


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> He said the program information change was an upgrade.
> 
> He at least implied that most things transferred back to a transitioned TiVo would have its metadata converted. Totally false.
> 
> ...


I don't know that there is enough information to conclude he was being intentionally deceptive or untruthful. He could have just been answering the questions with the information he had at the time.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

bradleys said:


> Ira said their retail strategy wasn't as successful as they needed it to be and that the bolt was meant to be a strategic stretch in the model.
> 
> I really do not think they saw much of a change in their sales numbers - and I think that is why we really aren't seeing much more than refreshed bolt.
> 
> I consider the Mantis to be the next "strategic test" of the TiVo line and that is likely where the R&D dollars went instead.


To me, the Mantis looks like a combination OTA tuner(s) and a Stream and that the "R" part of this "DVR" is that you can record the stream on your own device.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> +1. I confess I'll never understand the hoarder mentality that requires use of multi-TB drives for way more stuff than you could possibly watch, but there are plenty of those folks here. And even if you wanted to hoard all that stuff it's easy to offload it all to a PC running Plex or whatever, you don't need huge drives in Tivos.


I have no problem with collectors. It just surprises me how much of a market there is for 3 or 4 TByte drives on Tivos.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I don't know that there is enough information to conclude he was being intentionally deceptive or untruthful. He could have just been answering the questions with the information he had at the time.


I didn't say he did it intentionally, just that the statements were not in fact true.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> +1. I confess I'll never understand the hoarder mentality that requires use of multi-TB drives for way more stuff than you could possibly watch, but there are plenty of those folks here. And even if you wanted to hoard all that stuff it's easy to offload it all to a PC running Plex or whatever, you don't need huge drives in Tivos.


I archive most of what I record and my Pro is still currently at 72%. Admittedly, some of that is because I need to do some "housecleaning" plus the stuff I have been re-recording simply to get the new metadata. Even so, a 1TB drive is nowhere near enough and a 500GB would be destroyed.

You've also got to consider the situation of a household with multiple people each of whom have vastly different tastes in programming. 75 hours can get used up real quick.

And of course anything recorded from a copy protected channel can't be archived. I don't have much of that but people in TWC land have a big problem.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> +1. I confess I'll never understand the hoarder mentality that requires use of multi-TB drives for way more stuff than you could possibly watch, but there are plenty of those folks here. And even if you wanted to hoard all that stuff it's easy to offload it all to a PC running Plex or whatever, you don't need huge drives in Tivos.


For me it's not a hoarding mentality. I have no problem deleting things. I just never know what I will be in the mood to watch. So the more options I have the more likely I will have something i want to watch. So I record a ton of stuff. But I actually watch less than 10% of it. But even when I used six to eight VCRs in the 1990's, i recorded a bunch of stuff. But I didn't watch all of it.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

lpwcomp said:


> To me, the Mantis looks like a combination OTA tuner(s) and a Stream and that the "R" part of this "DVR" is that you can record the stream on your own device.


Nah, the Mantis will handle recording itself, either on a USB-connected hard drive like the Tablo (which I predict, given the size of the Mantis) or on an internal hard drive. Trying to develop apps for various devices (e.g. Roku, Fire TV, etc.) that would control recording to those devices' own internal memory (or connected memory) would be a real bear.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

NashGuy said:


> Nah, the Mantis will handle recording itself, either on a USB-connected hard drive like the Tablo (which I predict, given the size of the Mantis) or on an internal hard drive. Trying to develop apps for various devices (e.g. Roku, Fire TV, etc.) that would control recording to those devices' own internal memory (or connected memory) would be a real bear.


Agreed. The Mantis is an attempt to woo more cord cutters. Even with the switch to an HTML5 development platform TiVo can't seem attract services to develop apps for their all in one boxes, so they're taking a different approach. They're making their DVR compatible with more popular streaming devices while simultaneously making the hardware smaller and cheaper so they can better compete on price in the space.

It also sounds like "maybe" they're working on some sort of integration deal with an OTT "skinny bundle" provider so that they can integrate some "cable" channels into their OTA DVR for a more rounded experience. Although that's not 100% clear based on what we know for sure at this point. However it would allow them to provide a DVR experience for cord cutters that no other service currently offers. Integration of local OTA channels with national "cable" networks would be kind of a game changer for the segment.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> It also sounds like "maybe" they're working on some sort of integration deal with an OTT "skinny bundle" provider so that they can integrate some "cable" channels into their OTA DVR for a more rounded experience. However it would allow them to provide a DVR experience for cord cutters that no other service currently offers. Integration of local OTA channels with national "cable" networks would be kind of a game changer for the segment.


That would be awesome!

And indeed a unique solution (for now).

I can see this working out in terms of integrated guide and live tv (OTA plus OTT "skinny package"), but I can't seem to envision how the recording of the OTT portion can work with TiVo .


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

thyname said:


> That would be awesome!
> 
> And indeed a unique solution (for now).
> 
> I can see this working out in terms of integrated guide and live tv (OTA plus OTT "skinny package"), but I can't seem to envision how the recording of the OTT portion can work with TiVo .


The recording of the OTT portion would happen on a cloud DVR but would be integrated into your My Shows as if it were local. Just like how Netflix, etc.. does now but with tighter integration for playback. (i.e. it wouldn't need to launch a separate app)


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Dan203 said:


> The recording of the OTT portion would happen on a cloud DVR but would be integrated into your My Shows as if it were local. Just like how Netflix, etc.. does now but with tighter integration for playback. (i.e. it wouldn't need to launch a separate app)


Interesting. But who is going to host the "cloud" DVR? TiVo or the OTT programming provider? I guess it is difficult to imagine something that does not exist.


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## wco81 (Dec 28, 2001)

They might get additional sales if they put the guts in a normal box.


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## tarheelblue32 (Jan 13, 2014)

wco81 said:


> They might get additional sales if they put the guts in a normal box.


If they ever do a Bolt Pro, that's exactly what it will be. They will take the Roamio Pro box with its dedicated stream chip and throw in the guts from the Bolt+ with a 6TB hard drive.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

thyname said:


> Interesting. But who is going to host the "cloud" DVR? TiVo or the OTT programming provider? I guess it is difficult to imagine something that does not exist.


Yes. there would need to be a cost involved with this. I remember Boxee doing this several years ago. All my recordings were in the cloud. It actually worked well. But there is a big cost involved for having that cloud storage available for everyone.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Dan203 said:


> Agreed. The Mantis is an attempt to woo more cord cutters. Even with the switch to an HTML5 development platform TiVo can't seem attract services to develop apps for their all in one boxes, so they're taking a different approach. They're making their DVR compatible with more popular streaming devices while simultaneously making the hardware smaller and cheaper so they can better compete on price in the space. It also sounds like "maybe" they're working on some sort of integration deal with an OTT "skinny bundle" provider so that they can integrate some "cable" channels into their OTA DVR for a more rounded experience. Although that's not 100% clear based on what we know for sure at this point. However it would allow them to provide a DVR experience for cord cutters that no other service currently offers. Integration of local OTA channels with national "cable" networks would be kind of a game changer for the segment.


Hmmmmm, where have I heard THAT before? 

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10997140


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## opus472 (Jul 4, 2007)

zalusky said:


> I really don't get the need for massive disk space. Are you guys trying to save everything you have ever recorded? More and more of my viewing is now streaming which lowers the need for storage even more.


Streaming gives up the UI advantages of the Tivo, not to mention the occasional buffering/connection issues.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> It also sounds like "maybe" they're working on some sort of integration deal with an OTT "skinny bundle" provider so that they can integrate some "cable" channels into their OTA DVR for a more rounded experience. Although that's not 100% clear based on what we know for sure at this point. However it would allow them to provide a DVR experience for cord cutters that no other service currently offers. Integration of local OTA channels with national "cable" networks would be kind of a game changer for the segment.


That would be very cool if TiVo pulled off something like that.










One might speculate that something along those lines could be coming to Android TV as well. In that scenario, Google's native Live Channels app (pictured above) would be the UI that holds everything together. It basically acts as a front-end that gathers video streams and features from various underlying apps that hook into its APIs and combines them together into a single unified UI with a traditional grid-style program guide. It already works with Silicon Dust's HDHomeRun VIEW app to display live OTA or cable channels. It also works with a number of minor online live streaming apps to incorporate them as "channels" too. Among those is a Google Play Movies & TV live channel that shows nothing but trailers for content that can be currently rented or purchased from Google Play.

An updated version of the Live Channels app is about to be released with APIs for DVR functionality. So if Silicon Dust or Plex or anyone else makes their Android TV DVR software work with the Live Channels APIs, you'll be able to schedule, play, delete, etc. recordings right in Live Channels. (For a brief demo of that feature in beta, see this video from this May's Google I/O, starting at the 26 minute mark.)

The last piece would be the live cable channels available from an online streaming provider. It is rumored that Google will launch a skinny bundle TV service next year called YouTube Unplugged. I don't know if that service will be delivered through the existing YouTube app or if it will stream through a new separate app. Either way, it would be odd for Google not to follow their own Android TV best practice guidelines which encourage app developers to make their live video streams available for viewing also through the Live Channels app. If that happens, you would have a single app/UI incorporating a range of major and niche live streaming channels alongside live OTA channels with DVR functionality.

Again, it's speculation at this point that all the pieces from various players will come together to make that happen in 2017 but it could happen. Hopefully TiVo offers something along those lines too.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

opus472 said:


> Streaming gives up the UI advantages of the Tivo, not to mention the occasional buffering/connection issues.


I am not suggesting all streaming but the library of Netflix/Amazon/... is much larger than you can ever hope to have.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

zalusky said:


> I am not suggesting all streaming but the library of Netflix/Amazon/... is much larger than you can ever hope to have.


And of course they have everything I'll ever want to watch, at no additional charge, and I can watch stuff even of my internet is down. Oh wait, none of that is true.


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## sjacobs (Jan 19, 2008)

tarheelblue32 said:


> I have 3 Minis and they work quite well.


Agreed. FWIW I have several minis - one if which is hooked up to my LG OLED and the upscaling of my HD recordings streamed by the Mini look fantastic.

I got rid of 4 Premieres last year with minis and that has really worked well. All are hardwired along with my Tivos to central network switch. Now i have just two Roamio Pros. At some point when go to 4k in my home theater I will potentially upgrade that Roamio Pro.

Honestly these are so reasonably priced that between what i got for my old units and the savings from less cable card charges - I gave pretty much broken even on the changeover.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

opus472 said:


> Streaming gives up the UI advantages of the Tivo, not to mention the occasional buffering/connection issues.


It doesn't have to. The Mini proves that they can offer essentially the same user experience as the main box while having no local storage. It just requires better integration between the cloud service and the device. Right now the streaming apps we have don't put a lot of emphasis on trick play capabilities because they don't really need to, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to do. The PSVue DVR feature has trick play capabilities that work via streaming.


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## mlcarson (Dec 31, 2007)

Pretty disappointing product. Marketing apparently trumped engineering on most of the decisions. Note to marketing -- it wasn't the color of the case that made it an abomination -- it was the bend in the middle. There's no great need to make the damn thing smaller either. Making it smaller just adds to the overheating and prevents users from putting in a properly sized hard drive. 

And if they don't fix the Rovi guide data issues soon, they aren't going to sell many of these. I'd be much more likely to buy the new Mini's next year if they still work with the Roamio Pro and can stream on their own like the current Mini's.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

zalusky said:


> I really don't get the need for massive disk space. Are you guys trying to save everything you have ever recorded? More and more of my viewing is now streaming which lowers the need for storage even more.


Just like mentioned above everyone has different requirements. While I'm sure some folks out their do indeed qualify the "Hoarder" status (you know who you are ) other's like myself simply have different needs.

To use a PG word -- I already manage enough *stuff* in this information age - and instead of having to tack on additional workload for my brain to remember or just have more time in general for myself, I realized awhile back that it was just easier to add a larger drive to the TiVo, and then once in awhile tell the family.. "Hey guys, today I'm cleaning up old videos, make sure you clean up your recordings" - This avoids arguments and even more training sessions.

Then actually I never clean up anything -- even if they forget to. It's a false threat. Heh.

It's easier then telling the lazy family member, or the busy family member, or the hoarding family member, or the big time T.V. watcher family member, or basically staying on top of everyone in the house and laying down the law.

I could and DO pull stuff off the TiVo or other sources to Plex or wherever when I know it's an important recording. (Mostly my stuff. *snicker*) I also encourage use of streaming services when possible since we have every single freaking streaming service.

Oh and the kids stuff pretty much occupies a permanent portion of the TiVo HDD and grows all the time -- barring a once in a great while clean up by.. guess who?? Me.. bleh.

I have a ton of stuff to manage at work and at home TECH wise. Everything really...everything! (Including other family and friends stufts, all over the place) If I can lessen some of that work load on myself by simply adding a larger drive.

Where do I sign up?

**Edit -- Haha my original reply quoted the wrong post, my bad!**


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

mlcarson said:


> And if they don't fix the Rovi guide data issues soon, they aren't going to sell many of these. I'd be much more likely to buy the new Mini's next year if they still work with the Roamio Pro and can stream on their own like the current Mini's.


No Bolt + for me...If it were truly the Bolt Pro promised I probably would have.

I was also considering getting two new regular Bolts for family, but I will not be purchasing any TiVo until this Rovi Guide data gets fixed.


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## OmeneX (Jul 2, 2016)

CoxInPHX said:


> No Bolt + for me...If it were truly the Bolt Pro promised I probably would have.
> 
> I was also considering getting two new regular Bolts for family, but I will not be purchasing any TiVo until this Rovi Guide data gets fixed.


Ditto on wanting a "true" Bolt Pro model (I was anticipating spending for it ASAP) and ditto on the current Rovi Guide issue. (I better have a Walking Dead no guide error experience, I must KNOW who and not get a spoiler online.)

My free year still has awhile to go - so I can still bail out if I'm put into a corner. And since I got my Bolt for a great price I won't lose a dime.

However that being said - I really would like to stay on board the TiVo train. I was pretty much decided on moving to a yearly plan after my free was up. True Bolt Pro model or not.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Just not excited. I guess I feel like my Roamio Plus is good enough. And that the Bolt+ provides no major upgrade.


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## Goldwing2001 (Sep 30, 2006)

I currently have a Roamio Pro and have been waiting for the Bolt Pro version for quite some time now. 

I plan to be one of the first in line at tivo.com to place my order. Being able to stream 4K directly from my tivo box, and a faster processor, and more RAM is enough for me to be excited!


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Goldwing2001 said:


> I currently have a Roamio Pro and have been waiting for the Bolt Pro version for quite some time now.
> 
> I plan to be one of the first in line at tivo.com to place my order. Being able to stream 4K directly from my tivo box, and a faster processor, and more RAM is enough for me to be excited!


That aspect had been available for almost a year now.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Goldwing2001 said:


> I currently have a Roamio Pro and have been waiting for the Bolt Pro version for quite some time now.
> 
> I plan to be one of the first in line at tivo.com to place my order. Being able to stream 4K directly from my tivo box, and a faster processor, and more RAM is enough for me to be excited!


Keep in mind that as of right now only Netflix and YouTube are 4K. The Amazon and Vudu apps haven't been updated to support 4K yet. (nearly a year since original Bolt was released)


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## jcthorne (Jan 28, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> I didn't say he did it intentionally, just that the statements were not in fact true.


That is not correct. They were statements of intent by the marketing department. I fully believe his statements were indeed truly the intent at the time. The fact that something else happened does not make the statements of intent any less true.

To call the statements untrue is to question the integrity of the person giving them and that is not a correct thing to do in this instance.

There is a BIG difference between making a prediction that turns out not to come to fruition vs making a statement that is not truthful.

Weather men do not normally lie, even though they are often not correct.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

I was seriously thinking about picking up the Bolt+. And then scrapping my two, 4TB Bolts, when the year subscription ends. As well as selling my 5TB lifetime Roamio Pro. But the more I think about it, the only thing I take advantage of with the Bolt, are the very fast transfer rates to a PC. The number of 4K apps are pathetic and there is no HDR capability yet.

So now I'm thinking about keeping my 5TB Roamio Pro and when the subscriptions run out on my two 4TB, Bolts. I will not renew. And just start using one of my four Minis or a Roamio in my UHD setup to access the recordings on my Roamio Pro.

I'm currently running one of my Bolts and the Roamio Pro Headless. So I'm thinking about keeping them that way from now on. Especially if a TiVo Mini with 4K capability comes out. Then I might just upgrade to that.

If the Bolt+ had come in a larger chassis with 3.5" drives, then I would have been more keen on getting the Bolt+(or if the Bolt+ had been released along with the Bolt last year). But at this point it won't get me anything, except less storage and more cost. Which is going backwards for me with TiVo.

I'll probably go this route for now and keep my options open. And if there is a hardware/All In sale, I will reaccess.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> For me it's not a hoarding mentality. I have no problem deleting things. I just never know what I will be in the mood to watch. So the more options I have the more likely I will have something i want to watch. So I record a ton of stuff. But I actually watch less than 10% of it. But even when I used six to eight VCRs in the 1990's, i recorded a bunch of stuff. But I didn't watch all of it.


You need to watch a show on hoarders. Pardon me, but that sounds exactly like a hoarder.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> It doesn't have to. The Mini proves that they can offer essentially the same user experience as the main box while having no local storage. It just requires better integration between the cloud service and the device. Right now the streaming apps we have don't put a lot of emphasis on trick play capabilities because they don't really need to, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to do. The PSVue DVR feature has trick play capabilities that work via streaming.


Did you just compare LAN access to a dedicated box with WAN access to servers shared by multitudes of people?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> You need to watch a show on hoarders. Pardon me, but that sounds exactly like a hoarder.


Yes I've seen it. A hoarder doesn't get rid of things. If I never deleted anything then I would be a hoarder. I deleted around 6TB of content from my TiVos and TiVo server recently. Which I typically do at least before the new Tv season starts. And then sometimes in the Spring.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> Yes I've seen it. A hoarder doesn't get rid of things. If I never deleted anything then I would be a hoarder. I deleted around 6TB of content from my TiVos and TiVo server recently. Which I typically do at least before the new Tv season starts. And then sometimes in the Spring.


Since we now call people with the flu people with flu-like symptoms, we will have to say you have hoarder-like symptoms.

Just kidding around with you. I have no problem with it. I am almost compulsively the other way with my TV. Watch it and dump it.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> Did you just compare LAN access to a dedicated box with WAN access to servers shared by multitudes of people?


With proper stream indexing trick play isn't that hard, regardless of the source. You just need to know where the I/IDR frames are and have a method to jump to and start decoding them quickly. FF/RW are a little more tricky then IR/Skip, but still doable if there is a server side assist. (i.e. strip B frames, or even P frames, at server side)

FYI: The PSVue cloud DVR has full trick play support.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> With proper stream indexing trick play isn't that hard, regardless of the source. You just need to know where the I/IDR frames are and have a method to jump to and start decoding them quickly. FF/RW are a little more tricky then IR/Skip, but still doable if there is a server side assist. (i.e. strip B frames, or even P frames, at server side)


I have seen ZERO WAN based trickplay that stands up to what a Tivo or just about any other DVR does. The Mini doesn't prove a damned thing.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

TonyD79 said:


> I have seen ZERO WAN based trickplay that stands up to what a Tivo or just about any other DVR does. The Mini doesn't prove a damned thing.


Have you tried PSVue? I haven't, but I've read that it has full trick play support.

Also just because it doesn't exist, doesn't mean it's not possible. With the exception of PSVue no other OTT provider has a big incentive to offer decent trick play capabilities. Most are either commercial free or have forced commercials, so the ability to FF/RW is kind of secondary and probably doesn't get a lot of engineering consideration.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

TonyD79 said:


> I have seen ZERO WAN based trickplay that stands up to what a Tivo or just about any other DVR does. The Mini doesn't prove a damned thing.





Dan203 said:


> Have you tried PSVue? I haven't, but I've read that it has full trick play support.
> 
> Also just because it doesn't exist, doesn't mean it's not possible. With the exception of PSVue no other OTT provider has a big incentive to offer decent trick play capabilities. Most are either commercial free or have forced commercials, so the ability to FF/RW is kind of secondary and probably doesn't get a lot of engineering consideration.


I have and it works pretty darn well actually. Especially the 10 sec per right/left side ring click to go fwd or bwd 10 secs. I hit it multiple times to skip commercials and it reacts and responds VERY fast. I get to the next segment after a commercial almost as fast as using SkipMode on TiVo, as long as you hit it the correct amount of times. It's at least as fast as using FFWD on the TiVo remote.

If you have a PS4 or FireTV box I would highly suggest you give it a try for the free 7 day trial to see for yourself. Yes, it's not TiVo, but for the savings you can realize compared to a TiVo/Cable subscription, it's a very workable solution.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> Have you tried PSVue? I haven't, but I've read that it has full trick play support.
> 
> Also just because it doesn't exist, doesn't mean it's not possible. With the exception of PSVue no other OTT provider has a big incentive to offer decent trick play capabilities. Most are either commercial free or have forced commercials, so the ability to FF/RW is kind of secondary and probably doesn't get a lot of engineering consideration.


As another example, I read someone on this forum (I think -- possibly a different one) who said that he knew that his Comcast X1 box recorded some shows to the local hard drive and some to the cloud but he could never tell which; playback controls behaved the same regardless.

I agree that trick play in the vast majority of streaming apps on various devices leaves a lot to be desired but, as Dan explains, I don't think there's any reason why that technically has to be the case and I suspect as streaming becomes more and more common on our big screen TVs, we'll see the experience improve.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> As another example, I read someone on this forum (I think -- possibly a different one) who said that he knew that his *Comcast X1* box recorded some shows to the local hard drive and some to the cloud but he could never tell which; playback controls behaved the same regardless........


Oh, so you're saying that their local recording's trick play sucks too, then?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Nothing fancy, but here's what an actual Bolt Plus looks like, as seen from CEDIA.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

aaronwt said:


> Yes I've seen it. A hoarder doesn't get rid of things. If I never deleted anything then I would be a hoarder. I deleted around 6TB of content from my TiVos and TiVo server recently. Which I typically do at least before the new Tv season starts. And then sometimes in the Spring.


Were you a hoarder right before you deleted the 6t? Don't understand the hate for hoarders.


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

series5orpremier said:


> So to be clear it can still be set up OTA, and with six tuners?
> $1100 all-in? That's a lot. I might be good with what I have.


I waited a long time for a TiVo because I thought $800 was a lot for a DVR. $1100? Not sure what demographic TiVo is targeting, but I can't imagine a lot of people are going to get excited about so expensive a machine -- especially after the $300 deals.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

wizwor said:


> I waited a long time for a TiVo because I thought $800 was a lot for a DVR. $1100? Not sure what demographic TiVo is targeting, but I can't imagine a lot of people are going to get excited about so expensive a machine -- especially after the $300 deals.


It's cable only anyway. Sounds like you're OTA so it wouldn't work for you anyway.

Have you seen the thread about the Mantis? It looks to be a headless TiVo DVR that works like the Tablo, via an app on your existing streaming devices.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

it's up on TiVo.com now:

https://www.tivo.com/shop/bolt-detail


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

On Amazon too..

https://www.amazon.com/TiVo-BOLT-DVR-Streaming-Compatible/dp/B01KUKZPWM


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Yep, and TiVo is selling it for $399, but it's $499 on Amazon!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HarperVision said:


> Yep, and TiVo is selling it for $399, but it's $499 on Amazon!


Has no price now and wont let you add to cart.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

I got that when I tried to use Chrome, then I tried IE and it worked.

I had $172 in Amazon Gift Cards so I bit the bullet and bought one. 

TiVo charges me $50+ dollars just for shipping here so they weren't much off of each other, then when you take into consideration the GCs, I went with Amazon.

I decided to do it because of the 2 extra tuners mostly, now that I am back to a full cable lineup because momma just couldn't grasp the whole Vue thing.

I wonder if I'm the first buyer? It arrives on Friday, so I get to play over the weekend!


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

HarperVision said:


> I got that when I tried to use Chrome, then I tried IE and it worked.
> 
> I had $172 in Amazon Gift Cards so I bit the bullet and bought one.
> 
> ...


Awesome! Please keep us updated when you get it.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

I have the Roamio Pro, and do not see a reason besides 4k to upgrade.


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## gamo62 (Oct 12, 2002)

I have the Roamio Pro, and do not see a reason besides 4k to upgrade. Plus the loss of OTA.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

gamo62 said:


> I have the Roamio Pro, and do not see a reason besides 4k to upgrade. Plus the loss of OTA.


I'll see if that's even true. They said similar about the Roamio OTA units not doing cable, but you actually can and I did, many times.


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

I wonder when these will appear on the Amazon or Best Buy sites. It is time to replace the aging two tuner Premiere in the bedroom, but I don't want to order from Tivo directly for credit card reward reasons.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

abovethesink said:


> I wonder when these will appear on the Amazon or Best Buy sites. It is time to replace the aging two tuner Premiere in the bedroom, but I don't want to order from Tivo directly for credit card reward reasons.


It's already on Amazon:



thyname said:


> I don't see it on Amazon. I see regular price on TiVo.com Edit: found it: https://www.amazon.com/TiVo-BOLT-DVR-Streaming-Compatible/dp/B01KUKZPWM/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1473935551&sr=8-7&keywords=tivo+bolt+plus


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Nothing fancy, but here's what an actual Bolt Plus looks like, as seen from CEDIA.


It's identical in size, shape, and weight to the 4 tuner Bolt.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> I'll see if that's even true. They said similar about the Roamio OTA units not doing cable, but you actually can and I did, many times.


My money would be on the reverse (OTA) not being possible with the BOLT+, since the hardware difference between a BOLT & BOLT+ appears much more fundamental than the simple absence of the CableCARD bracket in the supposedly OTA-only Roamio OTA. I doubt the OTA tuning hardware exists in the BOLT+, as there'd be no reason to include the hardware and not market the functionality.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

NashGuy said:


> As another example, I read someone on this forum (I think -- possibly a different one) who said that he knew that his Comcast X1 box recorded some shows to the local hard drive and some to the cloud but he could never tell which; playback controls behaved the same regardless. I agree that trick play in the vast majority of streaming apps on various devices leaves a lot to be desired but, as Dan explains, I don't think there's any reason why that technically has to be the case and I suspect as streaming becomes more and more common on our big screen TVs, we'll see the experience improve.


Ugh. X1. My experience is over a couple of years a few days at a time. It was mediocre to horrible.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

krkaufman said:


> My money would be on the reverse (OTA) not being possible with the BOLT+, since the hardware difference between a BOLT & BOLT+ appears much more fundamental than the simple absence of the CableCARD bracket in the supposedly OTA-only Roamio OTA. I doubt the OTA tuning hardware exists in the BOLT+, as there'd be no reason to include the hardware and not market the functionality.


Agreed :up:


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I don't think there is even a 6 tuner ATSC/QAM combo chipset on the market. I remember jafa commenting on that once recently. (he's the inventor of the HDHomeRun) So it may not be possible to build a 6 tuner unit that does both even if they wanted to. (short of designing their own tuner)


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

According to TiVo website, Bolt+ does not do OTA.


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

aaronwt said:


> I'll probably go this route for now and keep my options open. *And if there is a hardware/All In sale, I will reaccess.*


Bingo.

The Bolt Pro should be a solid product, but it doesn't offer enough as an upgrade for those of us who already have enough tuners, hard drive space, and/or have invested in lifetime.

But if they were to run some promotions, I could be convinced ...


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

aaronwt said:


> It's identical in size, shape, and weight to the 4 tuner Bolt.


Yep, thought some might want to see what an actual product looks like since all we've seen until now are renders.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Yep, thought some might want to see what an actual product looks like since all we've seen until now are renders.


BigJimOutlaw posted this video on the last page. It's of the Bolt+ taken as CEDA, so not a render...


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

So when is the 4k Mini coming? It sounds like this will be the next TiVo I purchase. I could combine the 4k mini with a Roamio line TiVo and still get access to the small number of 4K apps.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Ira is now saying first half of 2017 for a new Mini.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

I received an email about the new Bolt+. It has this big XXXL display. If that's supposed to be Roman numerals, I think it means 20. So that should just be XX. Last year they didn't want to use "L" for 50. This year I understand it's going to be back to LI.

Maybe it's supposed to represent size? Wouldn't that be 3XL in most stores? Weird. Whatever it means, it's not getting the point across to me.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> Maybe it's supposed to represent size? Wouldn't that be 3XL in most stores? Weird. Whatever it means, it's not getting the point across to me.


That would be up to the manufacturer, not the store. Some do it one way, some the other.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

JoeKustra said:


> I received an email about the new Bolt+. It has this big XXXL display. If that's supposed to be Roman numerals, I think it means 20. So that should just be XX. Last year they didn't want to use "L" for 50. This year I understand it's going to be back to LI.
> 
> Maybe it's supposed to represent size? Wouldn't that be 3XL in most stores? Weird. Whatever it means, it's not getting the point across to me.


I think they're trying to indicate that it's 3X the size of the old Bolt


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

JoeKustra said:


> I received an email about the new Bolt+. It has this big XXXL display. If that's supposed to be Roman numerals, I think it means 20. So that should just be XX. Last year they didn't want to use "L" for 50. This year I understand it's going to be back to LI.
> 
> Maybe it's supposed to represent size? Wouldn't that be 3XL in most stores? Weird. Whatever it means, it's not getting the point across to me.


the webpage for the Bolt+ shows "3X". For three times the size of memory and for a processor that is three times faster.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

Riverdome said:


> All this talk of how expensive the new Bolt is makes me shutter. I bought my S3 when it was first released for $800 plus the cost of lifetime. HD DVR was worth every penny!





Dan203 said:


> But lifetime at the time was only $300. So you essentially paid the same as the new Bolt.


Note there was no lifetime being offered when TiVo released the S3 OLEDs in late 2006. They were offering existing lifetime users a deal to transfer their existing lifetime to a new S3 OLED for $199.

Scott


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

HerronScott said:


> Note there was no lifetime being offered when TiVo released the S3 OLEDs in late 2006. They were offering existing lifetime users a deal to transfer their existing lifetime to a new S3 OLED for $199.
> 
> Scott


You could still get it if you found a card at your local BestBuy. They also had a deal that was like $300-$400 for 3 years of service.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> You could still get it if you found a card at your local BestBuy. They also had a deal that was like $300-$400 for 3 years of service.


I looked all over for those but all I could find were people selling those cards for a huge markup
So I got three years service on each of my three s3 boxes for around $300 each.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

TonyD79 said:


> I watch a ton of tv. I record everything in HD. The most my 1/2 terabyte bolt has gotten to in a year is 20% full.


I'm guessing I watch way more shows than you do.. (but in recent years, I seriously am trying to KEEP watching fewer -- and I've said this before, I often stop watching MORE popular shows, since they'll likely end up on streaming services later). During the main season, I have MANY tuners going for much of prime time..

and no, I can't keep up with it.. I *often* but not usually eat into the extra during the summer.. though nowadays, with more new cable shows and network reality shows during the summer, that's happening less and less.. which is what is making me purposely try to follow fewer shows.

I still would like *ME* to be the one who decides what to delete and what to keep, which is why lots of storage is precious!! heh. (I have lately been skimming through and deleting a bunch of Last Call episodes.. sometimes listening to part of one guest. I used to save a lot of those for musical guests, but I realized I don't care about most of those, and they have weirder musicians than on the regular late night talk shows.)


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> You could still get it if you found a card at your local BestBuy. They also had a deal that was like $300-$400 for 3 years of service.


At the time you could also get Lifetime by getting any Humax TiVo, that unit you could still put Lifetime on (must have been a contract with Humax as the Humax packing box said Lifetime was available), after a few days (had to be less than 30 days) you could xfer the Lifetime to the Series 3 (or any TiVo) on the TiVo web sight, (using the change TSN link) that system worked great (as you could use the same Humax again and again) to get lifetime on other TiVos, until TiVo began selling Lifetime again.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

HarperVision said:


> Yes, (Vue is) not TiVo, but for the savings you can realize compared to a TiVo/Cable subscription, it's a very workable solution.


That was my feeling as well.


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## drrich0216 (Aug 29, 2016)

aaronwt said:


> This is what I was wondering. So is this actually a different and faster CPU than the 4 tuner Bolt has? That would make me even more likely to get the Bolt+.
> 
> Im seriously thinking about getting the Bolt+ and cutting a slot in the enclosure to run a SATA cable through it. Then instead of using an internal 2.5″ hard drive, i would use an external 3.5″ hard drive, And I would use either a 6TB or 8TB WD Red drive.


I just did what you are suggesting today, with a bolt. Took a video so hopefully once I edit it I can put it on you tube. Opened my 500 gig bolt, detached the hdd, and cut a slot in the plastic above the sata male connector on the mother board. Ran a sata to esata cable through the slot, and attached the sata end to the mother board.
Purchased a wd green AV 3 tb drive and enclosure, and attached the esata end of the cable to that. 
Put everything back together, booted it up, and after guided set up and a call to cablevision to re-bind my cable card, I have a working 3 terabyte 4 tuner bolt which suits my needs just fine. Went from 75 hours to 450 hours. Of course no warranty, but whatever.....


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## Brazos (Jun 17, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> According to TiVo website, Bolt+ does not do OTA.


So Bolt supports HD OTA and Bolt + does not support HD OTA ? 
That's a deal breaker for me. My goal is to cord cut. Why would Tivo make that decision? Doesn't make any sense.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

Brazos said:


> So Bolt supports HD OTA and Bolt + does not support HD OTA ?
> That's a deal breaker for me. My goal is to cord cut. Why would Tivo make that decision? Doesn't make any sense.


Agreed. However, I have read that currently a ATSC chip capable of six tuners does not exist. There are no OTA devices out there, TiVo or otherwise, capable of six tuners.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

Brazos said:


> So Bolt supports HD OTA and Bolt + does not support HD OTA ?
> That's a deal breaker for me. My goal is to cord cut. Why would Tivo make that decision? Doesn't make any sense.


Along with the fact that the hardware doesn't exist that thyname mentioned, TiVo has said that the Bolt Plus (like the Roamio Plus & Premiere 4 before it that also could not do OTA) will be release to TiVo's MSO (cable company) partners. So while the Bolt Plus is not the "Bolt Pro" that many people wanted it does make perfect sense.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Hopefully the future Mantis will be able to link up to the Bolt+ and Maybe Roamio Plus/Pro via Ethernet to add OTA capability.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Hopefully the future Mantis will be able to link up to the Bolt+ and Maybe Roamio Plus/Pro via Ethernet to add OTA capability.


Youre Praying Mantis can do this.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

foghorn2 said:


> Youre Praying Mantis can do this.


Why yes, yes I am!


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

Honestly, though, the current Rovi lineup (channel) data debacle/disaster (a different issue than program data errors which is bad enough) is the worst I've ever seen, far worse the OTA HD transition mess from years ago. In some cases, like mine, it is out right unacceptable and there is no excuse for butchering channel lineups to the point of rendering a DVR to being at best a VCR with a buffer. There are several of us long time TiVo owners/supporters talking and thinking, you know what, we might really need to jump ship now. Why would we want to invest any more money buying a new TiVo product, if this is what we can expect from the new company. I really think their long game is to reduce retail customers over time and limiting (good) customer support response is the easiest way to do it, from a business standpoint.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

cogx said:


> Honestly, though, the current Rovi lineup (channel) data debacle/disaster (a different issue than program data errors which is bad enough) is the worst I've ever seen, far worse the OTA HD transition mess from years ago. In some cases, like mine, it is out right unacceptable and there is no excuse for butchering channel lineups to the point of rendering a DVR to being at best a VCR with a buffer. There are several of us long time TiVo owners/supporters talking and thinking, you know what, we might really need to jump ship now. Why would we want to invest any more money buying a new TiVo product, if this is what we can expect from the new company. I really think their long game is to reduce retail customers over time and limiting (good) customer support response is the easiest way to do it, from a business standpoint.


Go ahead and Jump ship if you wish, the conversion is not as bad as people make it out to be, It could have gone way worse. Im sticking with TiVo products.


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

foghorn2 said:


> Go ahead and Jump ship if you wish, the conversion is not as bad as people make it out to be, It could have gone way worse. Im sticking with TiVo products.


You sound like me on Friday, September 30, before they utterly butchered my channel lineup at the end of that business day. This unacceptable situation probably won't happen to you too, but if it does, then you'll likely change your tune. Or not, as some people seemingly aren't bothered when things don't work the way they should.

In any case, the larger issue is one of viability for Rovi(TiVo) hardware in the ever changing technological landscape. My personal opinion is that the end of the DVR era has already begun. Assuming they fix my previously mostly correct channel lineup yet this week, I'm not ready for the end to be right now either, but there are other options and those options are going to become more promising every year from this point on. Technology comes and eventually either evolves or is outright replaced. It's the circle of life.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Same here . Very few problems with the new guide for my TWC cable channels.

Sounds like OTA-only viewers are having more problems.



foghorn2 said:


> Go ahead and Jump ship if you wish, the conversion is not as bad as people make it out to be, It could have gone way worse. Im sticking with TiVo products.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

ncbill said:


> Same here . Very few problems with the new guide for my TWC cable channels.
> 
> Sounds like OTA-only viewers are having more problems.


If the conversion negatively affected someone or not really depends on where you live and how you used your TiVo.

If you tended to use wishlists or search allot or lived in an area that got messed up channel lineups it was a real mess OTA or cable.

If you are like me, don't use wishlists, never use search, normally don't even go into the guide much and had no OTA channel lineup issues then it wasn't much of a thing. In the end I think I have had 3 one passes that had to be redone and that is it.

So the biggest issue for me has been not knowing if I would have issues and spending time going through everything to make sure stuff was going to record as it should.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

ncbill said:


> Same here . Very few problems with the new guide for my TWC cable channels.
> 
> Sounds like OTA-only viewers are having more problems.


I'm sure it depends on the area. I only had minor issues here for OTA and for cable.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> If you are like me, don't use wishlists, never use search, normally don't even go into the guide much and had no OTA channel lineup issues then it wasn't much of a thing.


So if you don't actually use the DVR all that much, the guide switch wasn't too bad.

If, on the other hand, you have the audacity to press the "guide" button more than once a week, or if you use it for OTA even though its the only decent DVR for OTA use, or God forbid you create a Wishlist (TM), you may have problems.

Some people over a month later cannot tune to a single channel they receive. I'd hate to think what it would take for you consider the transition to be bad. Maybe if it caught on fire?


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

BobCamp1 said:


> Some people over a month later cannot tune to a single channel they receive. I'd hate to think what it would take for you consider the transition to be bad. Maybe if it caught on fire?


That's the thing, there are two completely distinct types of DVR data problems, but a lot of people who post on this forum either don't know the difference or are the types that get their kicks by just being contrarian on forums.

A DVR with an incorrect channel lineup isn't a true DVR, it is just a digital VCR with a live TV buffer.

As for programming data issues, that's something else and has also become a sore spot on this forum, since the Rovi transition, but there are plenty of us with utterly broken DVRs now due to channel lineup problems and until they get those fixed there is no way to spin any of this as being benign.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

No issues here either. I have a Bolt+ with Verizon FIOS, and Roamio OTA (antenna).


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

BobCamp1 said:


> So if you don't actually use the DVR all that much, the guide switch wasn't too bad.
> 
> If, on the other hand, you have the audacity to press the "guide" button more than once a week, or if you use it for OTA even though its the only decent DVR for OTA use, or God forbid you create a Wishlist (TM), you may have problems.
> 
> Some people over a month later cannot tune to a single channel they receive. I'd hate to think what it would take for you consider the transition to be bad. Maybe if it caught on fire?


Really? Like I didn't list the issue lots of people were having and say people who were having those issue had a real mess?

Sorry if my not having those issues upsets you so much. I am OTA only and have no line up issues at all sorry again if that upsets you. All but 3 of my existing one passes worked fine and I had no issues setting up new ones for this years new shows.

While I actually have 5 functioning OTA TiVos with a total of 14 tuners between them I mostly use my Bolt & Roamio. I really only have 6 stations I watch content from so I pretty much record everything I could possible ever want to watch. Right now my Roamio & Bolt are recording over 60 hours of content per week. Right now I watch maybe 3-4 hours of it per day, the rest is either being discarded or saved for the re-run periods of the year. If you consider that not using my DVRs much so be it. Regarding the guide, I don't watch live TV or sports so beyond using it to setup 1 passes at the beginning of the season why would I go into it much?

Again sorry it upsets you so much that I happen to use my TiVos in a way that caused me, for the most part, to not have issues with the guide data transition.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

atmuscarella said:


> Really? Like I didn't list the issue lots of people were having and say people who were having those issue had a real mess?


The data problems also create problems with SPs/1Ps, which you left out of your list.

One issue I haven't seen discussed much - has anyone been able to create a 1P for an upcoming series since the switch-over?


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> The data problems also create problems with SPs/1Ps, which you left out of your list.
> 
> One issue I haven't seen discussed much - has anyone been able to create a 1P for an upcoming series since the switch-over?


What do mean by upcoming? One that is in the guide or one that is at some point in the future past where the guide goes out to?

I've created new One Passes both ways. For shows that don't come on for another few months. And I've created One Passes for shows that come on in the next 12 days.

it worked just like it did before the Rovi changeover. For a show in the future you can only create the 1P for All channels. But it still lets you create it. Just like it was before the changeover.

I guess the real question would be whether the show you want to create the 1P for comes up in a search. The ones I created obviously came up from a search. But if you can't find any search results then you couldn't create the 1P for the specific show.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

lpwcomp said:


> ... has anyone been able to create a 1P for an upcoming series since the switch-over?


Yes.

After the switch-over, and as soon as they became visible in the guide (about 12 days prior to first airings), I set up a 1P for the following:

Designated Survivor
Lethal Weapon
Timeless
MacGyver (2016)

All four record without issue.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> What do mean by upcoming? One that is in the guide or one that is at some point in the future past where the guide goes out to?


The latter.



aaronwt said:


> I guess the real question would be whether the show you want to create the 1P for comes up in a search. The ones I created obviously came up from a search. But if you can't find any search results then you couldn't create the 1P for the specific show.


Therein lies the problem. I'm not getting any results for a series not yet in the guide. Still not seeing anything for "Eyewitness", even though it's debut is only 12 days away. There were others earlier, like "Frequency".


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

ncbill said:


> Same here . Very few problems with the new guide for my TWC cable channels.
> 
> Sounds like OTA-only viewers are having more problems.


Lineup-wise I have no issues on Comcast in the ATL. Data-quality wise it is way worse.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lpwcomp said:


> The data problems also create problems with SPs/1Ps, which you left out of your list.
> 
> One issue I haven't seen discussed much - has anyone been able to create a 1P for an upcoming series since the switch-over?


I created 1Passes for all the new dramas that TiVo had listed in their new drama show collection without issues back when it first showed up, they have worked for all the shows that have aired so far.

I know that there have been issues with some 1 Passes (I noted 3 had issues for me out of the 40 -50 active 1 Passes that I have), is there something more than that?

Not knowing if 1 Passes are going to work is certainly a problem for everyone. I have spent significantly more time making sure stuff is scheduled to record this year than I ever have, and will have to watch 1 Passes for shows that start airing new episodes at some other time closely for likely the next year.

In any event I am not saying the guide change over went great, just that I was lucky enough to not have had significant problems.


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## mangochutney (Apr 7, 2015)

It's a crapshoot at the moment. You may have a 1P that's set fine then last minute it will fail (sports mostly).


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

RoamioJeff said:


> Yes.
> 
> After the switch-over, and as soon as they became visible in the guide (about 12 days prior to first airings), I set up a 1P for the following:


I don't think that's what they were asking about necessarily.

For a while (a year or so?), you've been able to create a OP for a far future show.. That seems to have broken with the new guide data.

Even with my quick-ad-skipping ways, I still sometimes see promos for new shows, and have tried to set OPs for late-October ones.. and wasn't able to. I don't remember specific examples right now.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

mattack said:


> For a while (a year or so?), you've been able to create a OP for a far future show.. That seems to have broken with the new guide data.


I concur.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

atmuscarella said:


> In any event I am not saying the guide change over went great, just that I was lucky enough to not have had significant problems.


Sadly, I have noticed on almost every discussion forum I participate in, when people start complaining about a problem, anyone who indicates they are not having the same problem, or not to the same extent, the keyboard bullies spring into action like a pack of electronic jackals and pounce on the interloper who didn't jump on the complaining bandwagon.

Too bad people don't simply accept their experience as another data point.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

That can go both ways. Sometimes the bully is the one who insists on arguing the complainers are overreacting or that the problem is in their heads. (Not referring to this thread specifically just that I've seen it before.)


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## cogx (Sep 23, 2006)

idksmy said:


> Too bad people don't simply accept their experience as another data point.


First, below is not a personal attack, please do not take it as such. I've worked in IT for over 20 years and problem feedback/identification is just part of my being and I take it very seriously.

Data points are critical when the situation isn't clear yet, when an error pattern hasn't yet arisen. There are of course types of problems where both positive and negative data points are useful, such as nailing down software bugs that turn out to affect only a subset of users.

However, channel lineup errors are not that type of problem. There is just nothing at all useful to the rest of the TiVo community with someone raising their hand and saying their channel lineup is fine. Until each and every unique zip/provider/lineup is error-free, it is a problem that TiVo needs to continue to fix, one zip/provider/lineup at a time. Incorrect data is incorrect data is incorrect data.

As for the ongoing complaints about the other types of program guide data errors, such as missing episode identifiers causing season passes not to work as expected, this is also something to where any given person saying they don't have a problem is meaningless to the TiVo community as a whole. We don't all watch the same programs or use our DVRs the same way, but a data error is a data error is a data error, whether any particular person is directly affected by it or not, whether anyone in the world even watches that particular program or not.

Anyway, this thread is suppose to be about the new Bolt+ hardware, so I apologize to everyone about hijacking it and I'll take this particular bone and gnaw on it somewhere else.


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## idksmy (Jul 16, 2016)

My point was simple, people should not be jumped on because they post what their experience is. 

If people don't think it's a data point, ignore their post.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> The data problems also create problems with SPs/1Ps, which you left out of your list.
> 
> One issue I haven't seen discussed much - has anyone been able to create a 1P for an upcoming series since the switch-over?


I have four of them right now. Great Indoors, Making History, Man with a Plan and Tracy Ullman.

The bigger issue I'm having is with new Netflix shows like Luke Cage.


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## lpwcomp (May 6, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I have four of them right now. Great Indoors, Making History, Man with a Plan and Tracy Ullman.
> 
> The bigger issue I'm having is with new Netflix shows like Luke Cage.


The thing is, that when I search for any series not yet in the guide, at best I get a "Fall Preview" and the option to create a wishlist search. No option to create a 1P.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

lpwcomp said:


> The thing is, that when I search for any series not yet in the guide, at best I get a "Fall Preview" and the option to create a wishlist search. No option to create a 1P.


It may be the specific shows. Like I said, I have a few of them and had more since the Rovi data but they started so I have now assigned them a channel (I get two ABCs, CBSs, NBCs and FOXs.)


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## abovethesink (Aug 26, 2013)

Add me to the almost everything stayed fine list. My college football wishlist never hicupped, by fight sports wishlist got a lot better since I had a problem with the old guide data with that, and I haven't missed anything I do not think. The only two negatives I can think of are that I had to make a new OnePass for Survivor and we couldn't get Teen Mom OG to record for my wife for whatever reason. I'd argue that last one was for the better. She has been recording each episode by choosing them as they appear in the data. I haven't tried to fix it since the initial bad night.

So, for me, things are better. Sounds pretty ****ty for those who aren't though. TWC Albany NY region here. Bolt+ and Roamio Basic.


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## b_scott (Nov 27, 2006)

TonyD79 said:


> I have four of them right now. Great Indoors, Making History, Man with a Plan and Tracy Ullman.
> 
> The bigger issue I'm having is with new Netflix shows like Luke Cage.


They seem to have fixed this somewhat - I added People of Earth, but I could not find Tracey Ullman's Show.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

idksmy said:


> Sadly, I have noticed on almost every discussion forum I participate in, when people start complaining about a problem, anyone who indicates they are not having the same problem, or not to the same extent, the keyboard bullies spring into action like a pack of electronic jackals and pounce on the interloper who didn't jump on the complaining bandwagon.
> 
> Too bad people don't simply accept their experience as another data point.


Sure but by someone posting over and over again they don't have issues it looks to those with issues that their issue is being dismissed and invalidated by the person arguing it's not an issue. Ultimately arguing something is not an issue when it patently is isn't very helpful. What would be better, "was gee that sucks, I didn't have issues and I agreee TiVo needs to do better for folks like you."

Both sides seemed to be making the same mistake and arguing / talking past each other.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

alexb said:


> Sure but by someone posting over and over again they don't have issues it looks to those with issues that their issue is being dismissed and invalidated by the person arguing it's not an issue. Ultimately arguing something is not an issue when it patently is isn't very helpful. What would be better, "was gee that sucks, I didn't have issues and I agreee TiVo needs to do better for folks like you."
> 
> Both sides seemed to be making the same mistake and arguing / talking past each other.


If someone ask a question, like my Comcast OD is not working, giving an answer that in my area it is working is good information.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

alexb said:


> Sure but by someone posting over and over again they don't have issues it looks to those with issues that their issue is being dismissed and invalidated by the person arguing it's not an issue. Ultimately arguing something is not an issue when it patently is isn't very helpful. What would be better, "was gee that sucks, I didn't have issues and I agreee TiVo needs to do better for folks like you."
> 
> Both sides seemed to be making the same mistake and arguing / talking past each other.


While my memory isn't what it used to be, I do not believe anyone has posted they didn't have any issues with the guide data change over. What type of problems someone had and our bad they were depended on how they used their TiVo and where they lived.

Generically speaking if we are talking about people who have a specific problem they would like to debug and get fixed, I think most understand the value of any information including under what situations other people are not see the same problem.

Again generically speaking, when people really just want to bit** about a problem some tend to get a little testy when people post info that contradicts their preferred narrative.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

I think it is fair for folks to ***** and fair to point out that the issue only applies to them.

My point as a relative rediscoverer of this forum is both sides seemed to be testy about the other side not fitting their narrative.


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## alexb (Jan 4, 2003)

lessd said:


> If someone ask a question, like my Comcast OD is not working, giving an answer that in my area it is working is good information.


Agreed, what I saw though was a few war and peace length posts about why the other person needed to reset their opinion. I was just reacting to that.


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