# Battlestar Galactica 2/6/09 "Blood on the Scales"



## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

All I can say is... Holy Frak.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

What happened to Anders?

And what was that big crack Tyrol saw?


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

Spiff said:


> All I can say is... Holy Frak.


shouldn't that be 2/6?? 

I spent most of the hour yelling at the TV


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

oh and seeing Gaeta and Zarek at the very end... I was actually yelling in celebration... my neighbors think I'm crazy anyways so why should I care :lol:


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

meh...could the story have followed a more predictable line? I think not...

I think the crack means that the ship would have exploded or something like that had it jumped...can't imagine how a ship like that would not have the capability to detect a hull breach; especially to the FTL engine room...


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

Anubys said:


> meh...could the story have followed a more predictable line? I think not...
> 
> I think the crack means that the ship would have exploded or something like that had it jumped...can't imagine how a ship like that would not have the capability to detect a hull breach; especially to the FTL engine room...


good point about a possible failure if they jumped... but, that bulkhead looked entirely interior, not exterior. Interior would be like knowing your hallway wall had a crack in it compared to a missing shingle on your roof on a rainy night.

I suspsect that if they jumped, the half of the ship with the FTL engine would have left the other half behind.


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

I loved the dream sequence firing squad and Baltar's creepy interaction with Gaeta at the end. It's almost like we're going to see the redemption of Baltar before it's over.


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## latrobe7 (May 1, 2005)

This wasn't as good as last weeks episode, but still pretty satisfying. I like that they wrapped up the "coup" arc in two weeks; and it also served to rid the story of that troublesome quorum and Tom Zarek.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Spiff said:


> All I can say is... Holy Frak.


+1

Nice to see Zarek and Felix get their comeuppance.

Did Anders live or not? Nice to see Romo has a heart and is not totally self absorbed.

The Bit with Baltar and Felix was making me think that Gaeta was the final Spylon not Tigh's wife. How crappy would that have been?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

"It stopped!"


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## qewwd (Nov 27, 2008)

busyba said:


> "It stopped!"


Stopped?

Why?

Where do you get this news?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

qewwd, no idea if you're being serious but if you are you need to watch the show more closely.

I thought this was a great episode (I've enjoyed all of this season actually). It was the kind of ep that made me wish I saved the whole season to watch in one go. Exciting action, and in my opinion not really that predictable. There were on a couple of possible outcomes and it went one way.

Hearkened back to the early days of the show for me. 

My thoroughly easy to please self enjoyed it immensely.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Great episode! 

I was a little shocked that Zerek was such a cold blooded killer. 

Yeah, the outcome was a little predictable although I didn't know if it how quickly it was all going to be resolved (this ep or another). Clearly Gaeta wasn't up to the task and they just didn't have a clear cohesive plan.

Of course, they couldn't just kill Adama. They had to leave him alive as a plot device.

Thinking back, I'm glad to see they gave Richard Hatch such a strong role. I wonder what he thought about it and his ending.

The was a brief glitch for me on my DirecTiVo (DirecTV prob?) during the jump countdown. It from 8 to 6 for me. Did I miss anything really significant? Anyone else on D* have the same prob?

One more thing, shouldn't the title of this thread have 'spoilers' in it?


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

cwerdna said:


> I was a little shocked that Zerek was such a cold blooded killer.


why shocked? if you go way back to  why Adama and Roslin were freaking about Zarek early in the series. Starting with the prison ship take over, then the presidential elections, etc... he was very capable of it


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Southcross said:


> good point about a possible failure if they jumped... but, that bulkhead looked entirely interior, not exterior. Interior would be like knowing your hallway wall had a crack in it compared to a missing shingle on your roof on a rainy night.
> 
> I suspect that if they jumped, the half of the ship with the FTL engine would have left the other half behind.


That was rather subtle and I'm glad to see that others have the same interpretation of it as I do.

So, by sabotaging the FTL drive, Tyrol didn't just save the fleet from takeover by Zarek (by giving Adama and his people enough time to overcome Zarek and Gaeta), he apparently saved Galactica from destruction, which would have probably plunged the fleet into even more turmoil than a takeover by Zarek.

Two uber-baddies get wasted! Yay!

Now if they can only waste Baltar...


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

cwerdna said:


> One more thing, shouldn't the title of this thread have 'spoilers' in it?


Per forum convention, any episode specific thread is potentially spoiler material. No warning needed if you're discussing the events of the episode in the topic. That does not cover events in previews for the next episode, but you're also free to speculate about what you think is going to happen next, provided you have no advance knowledge.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

I enjoyed the last two episodes, having long ago given up on any coherent character arcs, etc., and just kinda sitting back and having zero expectations to see where they finish it up. In that light, it was entertaining.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> Now if they can only waste Baltar...


+1

and let's hear it for Roslyn's "I'm coming after you" speech. LOVED IT. 
(even if they spoiled half of it in season preview commercials.)


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

My problem was Gaeta. Last ep he is strong and can't tolerate spylons and then all of a sudden he wimps out. No way. Seems to me the writers got themselves in a corner and did not know how to get out. A good ep, but they messed up on Gaeta's character.


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## Spiff (Mar 1, 2004)

I disagree, DouglsPHill. I saw Gaeta as coming to the realization that it wasn't just the Cylons who were evil. Humans had it in them. To hiim, Zarek's actions were no different than the Eight he was with in the webisodes. 

Sorry about the date in the thread title, by the way. It's too late for me to change it, should I PM a mod?


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## Talon (Dec 5, 2001)

Cainebj said:


> +1
> 
> and let's hear it for Roslyn's "I'm coming after you" speech. LOVED IT.
> (even if they spoiled half of it in season preview commercials.)


Roslyn was great!


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Spiff said:


> I disagree, DouglsPHill. I saw Gaeta as coming to the realization that it wasn't just the Cylons who were evil. Humans had it in them. To hiim, Zarek's actions were no different than the Eight he was with in the webisodes.


I agree.

He was wise enough to realize that in helping Zarek become president, he would be helping to start a reign of terror that would be worse than anything the Cylons might do.

I thought it was well played.

The way I took it, Gaeta realized that he couldn't live with either scenario, Roslyn/Adama rule, which he sees as Cylon rule, or Zarek rule. Since his surrender meant almost certain execution, he was effectively committing suicide.

That he was at peace with his decision was symbolized when the pain in his "stump" went away right before he was executed.


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

BTW: Who was the guy who didn't shoot the Chief coming out of the vent. He played a major role but I couldn't remember who he was


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## Legion (Aug 24, 2005)

Southcross said:


> good point about a possible failure if they jumped... but, that bulkhead looked entirely interior, not exterior. Interior would be like knowing your hallway wall had a crack in it compared to a missing shingle on your roof on a rainy night.
> 
> I suspsect that if they jumped, the half of the ship with the FTL engine would have left the other half behind.


I didnt see it as saving the ship at that moment. I saw it as Galactica is dying, her age is showing. I think it looked like some sort of corrosion in the hull. Something they wont be able to repair without facilities. They are telling us Galactica's days are numbered.


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

I think the one way to have made it better would have been for Lee Adama to be the one who kills Zarek. One Apollo kills another.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

JohnB1000 said:


> BTW: Who was the guy who didn't shoot the Chief coming out of the vent. He played a major role but I couldn't remember who he was


He was a birdman on Flash Gordon. It seems he's in a lot of SciFi shows. Along with the new comm guy and the guy from Sanctuary.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

JohnB1000 said:


> BTW: Who was the guy who didn't shoot the Chief coming out of the vent. He played a major role but I couldn't remember who he was


That was Captain Aaron Kelly. Galactica's third officer until he was busted for bombings during the Baltar trial.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Craigbob said:


> Did Anders live or not? Nice to see Romo has a heart and is not totally self absorbed.


I don't think it matters...I think the writers will need to have the final 5 still alive...they would not have made Ellen a cylon unless the final 5 can also resurrect...and in that case, Anders will be back whether he lives or dies...


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Spiff said:


> Sorry about the date in the thread title, by the way. It's too late for me to change it, should I PM a mod?


yeah a mod will fix the title...that way, people using the search feature can find it...


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Spiff said:


> I disagree, DouglsPHill. I saw Gaeta as coming to the realization that it wasn't just the Cylons who were evil. Humans had it in them. To hiim, Zarek's actions were no different than the Eight he was with in the webisodes.


The way I saw it, Zarek knew he'd lost control the minute the Quorum wouldn't back him and had them shot. His only goal was to maintain face and eliminate Adama 'officially' until everything fell apart. That's why he was lying about Tigh being dead, which obviously was going to come out.

Gaeta recognized that the people were never going to back them and didn't want to make the situation worse at the end. Frankly, I thought he was going to shoot Zarek on the bridge.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

I thought this was a good episode, though I thought they retook the ship way too easily. I mean where were all those people who came in with Adama the entire time?

Also I kind of felt sorry for Gaeta. He thought what he was doing was right. He thought he was protecting the fleet from the Cylons. He was trying to stick to his morals. The problem is that he teamed up with Zarek who has no morals and in the end he realized that he wasn't going to be welcomed as a savior and that Zarek wasn't the answer to all his problems.



WinBear said:


> I loved the dream sequence firing squad and Baltar's creepy interaction with Gaeta at the end. It's almost like we're going to see the redemption of Baltar before it's over.


I can't figure out if the Baltar/Gaeta scene at the end is supposed to be real or not. If it was real, when did it take place? If it wasn't who was dreaming it and why?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

morac said:


> I can't figure out if the Baltar/Gaeta scene at the end is supposed to be real or not. If it was real, when did it take place? If it wasn't who was dreaming it and why?


I thought it was real. I figured they just sort of compressed some time and events at the end to get to the execution. Maybe there was a last meal or a chance for the convicted to put some stuff in order, I don't know.

Or it was a scene they shot and liked, but didn't really have a good place for it so they just stuck it there.


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

Question: Why waste valuable ammunition, when they could have just blown them both out of the airlock?

OK, small arms ammunition won't be used much in a space battle, but still...


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Sherminator said:


> Question: Why waste valuable ammunition, when they could have just blown them both out of the airlock?
> 
> OK, small arms ammunition won't be used much in a space battle, but still...


As Zarek mention early on in the episode, the law says that punishment for crimes of treason, etc. is "death by firing squad".


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## Royster (May 24, 2002)

Battlestar Galactica themed werewolf game starting in the Fun House. Sign up this weekend. Game starts on Monday. New players welcome.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

morac said:


> I can't figure out if the Baltar/Gaeta scene at the end is supposed to be real or not. If it was real, when did it take place? If it wasn't who was dreaming it and why?





hefe said:


> I thought it was real. I figured they just sort of compressed some time and events at the end to get to the execution. Maybe there was a last meal or a chance for the convicted to put some stuff in order, I don't know.


I figured Gaeta asked to meet with Baltar (or maybe the other way around) as a form of last rites before he's executed. He even said to Balter, "please, no religion", when Baltar tried to speak at the end.


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## vman41 (Jun 18, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> I figured Gaeta asked to meet with Baltar (or maybe the other way around) as a form of last rites before he's executed. He even said to Balter, "please, no religion", when Baltar tried to speak at the end.


I took it as a hallucination. Ever see the movie Brazil?


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

Sherminator said:


> Question: Why waste valuable ammunition, when they could have just blown them both out of the airlock?


Because giving someone a quick, humane death shows you're taking the moral high ground. It legitimizes your authority when you're not acting impulsively and out of revenge.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

jschuur said:


> Because giving someone a quick, humane death shows you're taking the moral high ground. It legitimizes your authority when you're not acting impulsively and out of revenge.


I would think spacing someone would be a quicker death.

I, too, was wondering "why waste the ammo?"


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I would think spacing someone would be a quicker death.


It's not. Not even close. Unless the firing squad really, really botches it...


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> I would think spacing someone would be a quicker death.
> 
> I, too, was wondering "why waste the ammo?"


Depends where your bullets hit them.

So why do firing squads aim for the heart, instead of the head?

Destroy the brain, instant death, destroy the heart, the brain waits three minutes before it's destroyed (well there is some time that the executed would spend with the pain of being shot, and the pain of the heart not beating before they fade into permanent unconciousness).


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## Schmye Bubbula (Oct 14, 2004)

Wasn't that the first look we've had at the FTL drive?
Most awesome equipment I've ever seen since ... Forbidden Planet!


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## vikingguy (Aug 12, 2005)

Another really good episode. I just wish it would of been about 10 episodes ago. I just hope these 2 episodes don't get in the way of the end game of the show. Each episode that goes by with no resolution to the main story lines gets me worried there is no end game.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Schmye Bubbula said:


> Wasn't that the first look we've had at the FTL drive?
> Most awesome equipment I've ever seen since ... Forbidden Planet!


Yeah, I forgot to mention that. It was cool that we finally got to see the FTL drive.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Sherminator said:


> Depends where your bullets hit them.
> 
> So why do firing squads aim for the heart, instead of the head?
> 
> Destroy the brain, instant death, destroy the heart, the brain waits three minutes before it's destroyed (well there is some time that the executed would spend with the pain of being shot, and the pain of the heart not beating before they fade into permanent unconciousness).


I would guess the tradition started so their family can bury them and so the person is still recognizable...

kind of the opposite of how the mafia will shoot someone in the head so they cannot have an open casket funeral as punishment and warning...


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not. Not even close. Unless the firing squad really, really botches it...


How long does death take in space?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> How long does death take in space?


http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=741


> When the human body is suddenly exposed to the vacuum of space, a number of injuries begin to occur immediately. Though they are relatively minor at first, they accumulate rapidly into a life-threatening combination. The first effect is the expansion of gases within the lungs and digestive tract due to the reduction of external pressure. A victim of explosive decompression greatly increases their chances of survival simply by exhaling within the first few seconds, otherwise death is likely to occur once the lungs rupture and spill bubbles of air into the circulatory system. Such a life-saving exhalation might be due to a shout of surprise, though it would naturally go unheard where there is no air to carry it.
> 
> In the absence of atmospheric pressure water will spontaneously convert into vapor, which would cause the moisture in a victim's mouth and eyes to quickly boil away. The same effect would cause water in the muscles and soft tissues of the body to evaporate, prompting some parts of the body to swell to twice their usual size after a few moments. This bloating may result in some superficial bruising due to broken capillaries, but it would not be sufficient to break the skin.
> 
> ...


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## Unbeliever (Feb 3, 2001)

morac said:


> I thought this was a good episode, though I thought they retook the ship way too easily. I mean where were all those people who came in with Adama the entire time?


That was Adama's Execution Detail.

--Carlos V.


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## flaminio (May 21, 2004)

Nice read, hefe -- as I was reading it I was thinking how absolutely accurate Kubrick got it in _2001_.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

cwerdna said:


> Yeah, I forgot to mention that. It was cool that we finally got to see the FTL drive.


I dunno it kind of looked like a giant reciprocating engine.


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Sherminator said:


> Depends where your bullets hit them.
> 
> So why do firing squads aim for the heart, instead of the head?
> 
> Destroy the brain, instant death, destroy the heart, the brain waits three minutes before it's destroyed (well there is some time that the executed would spend with the pain of being shot, and the pain of the heart not beating before they fade into permanent unconciousness).


I don't have a reference on this one, but I think loss of consciousness is fairly instant once the blood flow stops. Certainly quite fast. The brain dying after 4-6 minutes will happen in unconsciousness.


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

morac said:


> Also I kind of felt sorry for Gaeta. He thought what he was doing was right. He thought he was protecting the fleet from the Cylons. He was trying to stick to his morals. The problem is that he teamed up with Zarek who has no morals and in the end he realized that he wasn't going to be welcomed as a savior and that Zarek wasn't the answer to all his problems.


interesting plot line with Gaeta... if you have never watched the SciFi.com Webisodes (10 parts) "The Face of the Enemy"... do so, it takes place between S4 and S4.5 :up:


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## jimmymac (Nov 6, 2002)

If anybody is interested in being spoiled here's a link to a different preview to next week where we know Anders' fate.


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## cwerdna (Feb 22, 2001)

Southcross said:


> interesting plot line with Gaeta... if you have never watched the SciFi.com Webisodes (10 parts) "The Face of the Enemy"... do so, it takes place between S4 and S4.5 :up:


Thanks for the pointer to the webisodes. They do give some insight into Gaeta's motivations.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

DouglasPHill said:


> My problem was Gaeta. Last ep he is strong and can't tolerate spylons and then all of a sudden he wimps out. No way. Seems to me the writers got themselves in a corner and did not know how to get out. A good ep, but they messed up on Gaeta's character.


Very much in character for Gaeta. The murder of the quorum had nothing to do with cylons. At that point he knows he's in bed with the devil.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It's not. Not even close. Unless the firing squad really, really botches it...


If the shot is to the heart, I imagine you would maintain consciousness until you bleed out. A shot to the heart is not going to cause instantaneous death.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

flaminio said:


> Nice read, hefe -- as I was reading it I was thinking how absolutely accurate Kubrick got it in _2001_.


Exactly. I've seen that piece before, and it was being used to refute the "no way!!!" reaction that a lot of people have to that particular scene in 2001.

Remember that 2001 was written by Arthur C. Clarke, who was a scientist as much as he was an author. He invented the concept of the geosynchronous and the geostationary satellite!


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

> There are no recorded instances of successful resuscitation beyond that threshold.


Ummm, are there any recorded instances of any human being exposed to space for any amount of time?


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Ummm, are there any recorded instances of any human being exposed to space for any amount of time?


Wiki:


> Few humans have experienced these four conditions. Joseph Kittinger experienced localised ebullism during a 31 kilometres (19 mi) ascent in a helium-driven gondola.[1] His right-hand glove failed to pressurise and his hand expanded to roughly twice[4] its normal volume accompanied by disabling pain. His hand took about 3 hours to recover after his return to the ground. Two other people were decompressed accidentally during space mission training programs on the ground, but both incidents were less than 5 minutes in duration, and both victims survived.[1] International Space Station and Space Shuttle astronauts regularly work in Extravehicular Mobility Units (EMUs or space suits) that are at pressures less than 30% of the spacecraft to facilitate mobility, without experiencing noticeable decompression sickness.[5] Nevertheless, the decompression accident of Soyuz 11 killed all three cosmonauts on board.[5][6]


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## BobB (Aug 26, 2002)

> "It stopped!"





qewwd said:


> Stopped?
> 
> Why?
> 
> Where do you get this news?


That was the last thing Gaeta said before he died - it appeared to be a reference to the fact that his knee had finally stopped itching at the amputation point, but of course could be read in much more mysterious ways.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

While I'm happy that Gaeta and Zarek are dead, I'm kinda sad that they're gone. There's more time to focus on Baltar and I've gotten to the point where I look for the ffwd button on his scenes.

Just in case I ffwd'd past it, if Baltar isn't a Cylon, has it been revealed yet why he get visions of Six in his head?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Just in case I ffwd'd past it, if Baltar isn't a Cylon, has it been revealed yet why he get visions of Six in his head?


Nope.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Anubys said:


> Nope.


Because it was cool, duh!


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

cheesesteak said:


> Just in case I ffwd'd past it, if Baltar isn't a Cylon, has it been revealed yet why he get visions of Six in his head?


Well I'm not a cylon (don't think so anyway) and I've had quite a few visions in my head of her


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

What was the point of all of this? Just to kill off Zarek and Gaeta?


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## JohnB1000 (Dec 6, 2004)

TAsunder said:


> What was the point of all of this? Just to kill off Zarek and Gaeta?


I believe the point of all this is to entertain the TV viewer.

I think it's too easy to come down hard on them at this time but they basically had a rebellion story arc that has lasted, so far, 2 episodes, it might carry on, since there is no quorum and it brought Roslin out of retirement, so I think there is enough point.

I think you could make an argument like that about any story arc in any series.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

JohnB1000 said:


> I believe the point of all this is to entertain the TV viewer.
> 
> I think it's too easy to come down hard on them at this time but they basically had a rebellion story arc that has lasted, so far, 2 episodes, it might carry on, since there is no quorum and it brought Roslin out of retirement, so I think there is enough point.
> 
> I think you could make an argument like that about any story arc in any series.


Well, in other shows they might not reset to normal afterward. I was just expecting this to last a lot longer and not end up basically back to square one. I kind of enjoyed the plot relative to others, but it seemed strange to me that it fizzled out and didn't really mean much in the end. I guess the biggest lasting impact is that a new quorum will have to be chosen.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cwerdna said:


> The was a brief glitch for me on my DirecTiVo (DirecTV prob?) during the jump countdown. It from 8 to 6 for me. Did I miss anything really significant? Anyone else on D* have the same prob?


IIRC, the word "seven" wasn't actually heard, because it cut away from the CIC to Tyrol in the FTL room for a couple of seconds.


DouglasPHill said:


> My problem was Gaeta. Last ep he is strong and can't tolerate spylons and then all of a sudden he wimps out. No way. Seems to me the writers got themselves in a corner and did not know how to get out. A good ep, but they messed up on Gaeta's character.


I'm yet another that disagrees with this. Gaeta simply realized too late that he'd backed the wrong horse, and decided that as long as he was going to fail, Adama/Roslin would be better leadership for the fleet than Zarek.


morac said:


> I thought this was a good episode, though I thought they retook the ship way too easily. I mean where were all those people who came in with Adama the entire time?


As previously stated, the Marines he used were his execution detail. As they made their way through the ship, I'm sure they picked up more. Those people were simply following orders. When they thought Gaeta had the authority, they followed his orders. Once they saw that Adama still had the authority, they followed him. Pretty standard preservation instincts.


morac said:


> I can't figure out if the Baltar/Gaeta scene at the end is supposed to be real or not. If it was real, when did it take place? If it wasn't who was dreaming it and why?


It was Gaeta's last "meal" or last visit with "family" before his execution. I agree it was a bit confusing since we went from seeing him arrested for treason, to sitting in a room relaxing and having coffee without any restraints, etc. However, there was clearly an amount of time that passed and that meeting with Baltar was directly before the execution and Gaeta didn't require restraints anymore.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Sherminator said:


> So why do firing squads aim for the heart, instead of the head?


Because the chest is an easier, larger target than the head. Snipers are taught to shoot for the head, common soldiers aren't.



TAsunder said:


> I guess the biggest lasting impact is that a new quorum will have to be chosen.


I think it's more serious than that. There was widespread fighting throughout the ship; and those casualties haven't been counted yet. A good chunk of the crew sided with Gaeta's mutiny. What's going to happen to Racetrack, Skulls, Seelix, & Narcho? Airlock'd? Court Martialed? Exiled off into the regular fleet? A pat on the head and all is forgiven?


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

Saturn_V said:


> I think it's more serious than that. There was widespread fighting throughout the ship; and those casualties haven't been counted yet. A good chunk of the crew sided with Gaeta's mutiny. What's going to happen to Racetrack, Skulls, Seelix, & Narcho? Airlock'd? Court Martialed? Exiled off into the regular fleet? A pat on the head and all is forgiven?


I think that, just for the sake of the show, it'll be "all is forgiven". I'm not sure how it would truly work in the military--Gaeta officially took command, seemingly having the law on his side at least until after the court martial. In the real world, would soldiers following that leader that they believed to be legit be court martialed after the coup?


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Saturn_V said:


> I think it's more serious than that. There was widespread fighting throughout the ship; and those casualties haven't been counted yet. A good chunk of the crew sided with Gaeta's mutiny. What's going to happen to Racetrack, Skulls, Seelix, & Narcho? Airlock'd? Court Martialed? Exiled off into the regular fleet? A pat on the head and all is forgiven?


The soldiers who killed the quorum need to be executed if they weren't killed in the takeover. That was plain murder. "Just following orders" shouldn't apply to them. If I'm ever elected Admiral of the Colonial Fleet, anybody who pointed a gun at me would be dead. Anybody who told them to point a gun at me would have a short shelf life, too.


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

RW military treats mutiny very seriously. You can be found guilty and shot for _even knowing_ about the conspiracy and failing to report it to your superiors. But nothing about Gaeta's actions was really lawful. If Adama gave an unlawful order, soldiers do have the obligation to refuse it. I don't think allying with the rebel Cylons and using their tech is militarily an illegal thing.

I think in the RW, all of the participants (military and civilian) would be taken out in short order.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

doom1701 said:


> I think that, just for the sake of the show, it'll be "all is forgiven". I'm not sure how it would truly work in the military--Gaeta officially took command, seemingly having the law on his side at least until after the court martial. In the real world, would soldiers following that leader that they believed to be legit be court martialed after the coup?


That's what I was thinking too. But I'm looking forward to being proven wrong.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> As previously stated, the Marines he used were his execution detail. As they made their way through the ship, I'm sure they picked up more. Those people were simply following orders. When they thought Gaeta had the authority, they followed his orders. Once they saw that Adama still had the authority, they followed him. Pretty standard preservation instincts.


That really makes no sense. Why would you recruit soldiers who a few seconds ago were about to execute you? As for them "just following orders", that also makes no sense since Adama outranks everyone else on the ship. He could have just ordered them to not kill him. Also remember that even after Adama was saved from execution, Gaeta was still in control of the ship.

In a real military, everyone involved in the coup would have been court martialed (the civilians would be tried for treason). In this instance, since there aren't a lot of soldiers to begin with, simply trying and convicting the ring leaders (Gaeta and Zarak) might be enough, but the soldiers in the coup wouldn't be forgiven that quickly.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

morac said:


> That really makes no sense. Why would you recruit soldiers who a few seconds ago were about to execute you? As for them "just following orders", that also makes no sense since Adama outranks everyone else on the ship. He could have just ordered them to not kill him. Also remember that even after Adama was saved from execution, Gaeta was still in control of the ship.


I think the idea is that those soldiers were very conflicted the whole time and were glad to be back on Adama's side. Could be wrong, though.


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

doom1701 said:


> I think that, just for the sake of the show, it'll be "all is forgiven". I'm not sure how it would truly work in the military--Gaeta officially took command, seemingly having the law on his side at least until after the court martial. In the real world, would soldiers following that leader that they believed to be legit be court martialed after the coup?


I'm pretty sure in a real military they would all be court martialed and probably executed since "just following orders" isn't a valid excuse, but like I just mentioned if that were to happen, they'd end up imprisoning or executing a large percentage of the military. They can't afford to do that so executing the ring leaders and demoting everyone else involved will probably suffice.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't think Gaeta thought he was backing the wrong horse. I think he simply realized that he was not a good leader and that the cause was lost. So he saved everyone from further bloodshed.

I hope Adama does not follow on his "no mercy" promise since I really like the very cute fighter pilot (the one with the short hair) who clearly went with Zarek (I think she was the pilot he was telling the joke to when he landed on Galactica).

let's hope the next ep isn't wasted on Adama cleaning house with the traitors!


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## MacThor (Feb 7, 2002)

If they execute everyone involved in the conspiracy, they quite literally would decimate the entire human population........

I hope they scrap the quorum. The last thing this show needs in its final episodes is more elections. To govern a population < 40,000.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I think the idea is that those soldiers were very conflicted the whole time and were glad to be back on Adama's side. Could be wrong, though.


Gaeta asked specifically for soldiers trustworthy for the execution squad from "whomever his ringleader on CIC was" and he was told they'd be trustworthy.

So I sincerely doubt Adama's execution squad would have any of those members.

Diane


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I don't think Gaeta thought he was backing the wrong horse. I think he simply realized that he was not a good leader and that the cause was lost. So he saved everyone from further bloodshed.


I disagree. Gaeta thought Zarek was the right partner for his coup, but as soon as Zarek started doing some of the more brutal things like murdering the quorum, Gaeta realized he'd bitten off way more than he could chew and he seemed relieved when Adama stormed back in and their coup failed. I don't think he was necessarily a bad leader. He was simply paired with someone who was much more extreme than he had realized.


dianebrat said:


> Gaeta asked specifically for soldiers trustworthy for the execution squad from "whomever his ringleader on CIC was" and he was told they'd be trustworthy.
> 
> So I sincerely doubt Adama's execution squad would have any of those members.
> 
> Diane


But when Adama, Tigh, Lee, etc. overpowered them and killed their leader, he got them to back him again. We don't know whether that was because they were afraid of being shot, or whether it was because they truly wanted to back Adama, but that's how it was shown.


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I disagree. Gaeta thought Zarek was the right partner for his coup, but as soon as Zarek started doing some of the more brutal things like murdering the quorum, Gaeta realized he'd bitten off way more than he could chew and he seemed relieved when Adama stormed back in and their coup failed. I don't think he was necessarily a bad leader. He was simply paired with someone who was much more extreme than he had realized.


The other part of this was when Gaeta realized he was just a puppet for Zarek, when Gaeta essentially told him (in CiC) "So the people have both a military and a political leader now?". Gaeta was just a guy to flip the switch for whatever Zarek wanted.


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## catcard (Mar 2, 2001)

Warning - off the wall prediction: When I saw the "crack" in the wall of the FTL drive room, it looked more like it was "bleeding". I think Galactica is actually a Cylon


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## Saturn_V (Jun 2, 2007)

Anubys said:


> I hope Adama does not follow on his "no mercy" promise since I really like the very cute fighter pilot (the one with the short hair) who clearly went with Zarek (I think she was the pilot he was telling the joke to when he landed on Galactica).


That would be Racetrack. She's one of my favs too. My eyes nearly popped out when she took off her jacket (playing strip triad) in "Six of One."  (17:28)

Even so, the dark-heart in me wants to see a "purge of the disloyal." Civilians were armed and cut loose on the ship willy-nilly. Gov't officials were shot at and killed. In the RW, all the losers of any attempted coup would have their heads on pikes after it was over. To continue on without punishing the rest of Gaeta's mutineers wouldn't ring right with me.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Ya know, Gaeta was actually right. They shouldn't be allowing any Cylons to command humans.


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## UTV2TiVo (Feb 2, 2005)

Saturn_V said:


> Even so, the dark-heart in me wants to see a "purge of the disloyal." Civilians were armed and cut loose on the ship willy-nilly. Gov't officials were shot at and killed. In the RW, all the losers of any attempted coup would have their heads on pikes after it was over. To continue on without punishing the rest of Gaeta's mutineers wouldn't ring right with me.


As somebody alluded to earlier, it's pretty tough to apply RW logic to this situation (I mean, besides the fact that it's just fiction) when the entire human population is less than 40K. I think the rules change a little when the fate of the entire race is in jeopardy. Zarek and Geata needed to die, for sure, but the rest would get more of a break than normal military rules would allow when human life is so precious.

And I second the hope that Racetrack doesn't get executed, because she's hot! Maybe kick her out of the military and force her to breed to start building the human population back up one baby at a time...


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## morac (Mar 14, 2003)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Ya know, Gaeta was actually right. They shouldn't be allowing any Cylons to command humans.


Well Lee actually stated that he agreed with Gaeta's principles, just not with his methods.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I'm really interested in seeing what the population number is going to be in the opening credits of the next episode as compared to two episodes ago.


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## Win Joy Jr (Oct 1, 2001)

busyba said:


> I'm really interested in seeing what the population number is going to be in the opening credits of the next episode as compared to two episodes ago.


Ron Moore's wife reads this and goes "Uh, Ron? Did you have them change the opening credits?"...


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

I just looked up the count on some BSG wiki site and they said that the death toll from the first episode of the coup was 40. I'm surprised it was that low.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Ya know, Gaeta was actually right. They shouldn't be allowing any Cylons to command humans.


That's awfully prejudiced of you. Cylons are people, too...


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## jschuur (Nov 27, 2002)

busyba said:


> I'm really interested in seeing what the population number is going to be in the opening credits of the next episode as compared to two episodes ago.


Damn TiVo skipping. I don't think I've ever noticed that figure in the credits.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

jschuur said:


> Damn TiVo skipping. I don't think I've ever noticed that figure in the credits.


Every episode has something in the opening like "##,### people... searching for Earth" (changed to searching for "a home" after Earth ended up being a disappointment ) where ##,### is the current human population count.


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

busyba said:


> where ##,### is the current human population count.


Did it go down once the final four were outed?


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

UTV2TiVo said:


> And I second the hope that Racetrack doesn't get executed, because she's hot! Maybe kick her out of the military and force her to breed to start building the human population back up one baby at a time...


I'll volunteer to take one for the survival of the race and get her started!


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## ToddAtl (Jul 27, 2003)

Anubys said:


> I think the crack means that the ship would have exploded or something like that had it jumped...can't imagine how a ship like that would not have the capability to detect a hull breach; especially to the FTL engine room...


I saw this differently. I thought we were meant to think that shutting down the FTL drive so close to jumping has caused this crack. My guess is that we are going to learn that Galactica now cannot jump at all.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

ToddAtl said:


> I saw this differently. I thought we were meant to think that shutting down the FTL drive so close to jumping has caused this crack. My guess is that we are going to learn that Galactica now cannot jump at all.


I'm guessing you're right about the second part, although I shared the majority interpretation on the first part. IMHO that crack didn't look brand new, but rather an old one that's been slowly spreading. Chances are they'll decide that any further jumps would be too dangerous until it's fixed.


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

Racetrack is even better looking in person!


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

And yeah, I, too, thought the crack meant that either Tyrol saved the Galactica from exploding or it now cannot jump any more.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Racetrack is even better looking in person!


damn...that's ugly!

the girl is hot, though


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

Did anyone else thing the crack looked less like a crack and more like claw marks? Maybe the final episodes will be about everyone trying to flee from the giant raptor like space creature that lives in the FTL engine.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

doom1701 said:


> Did anyone else thing the crack looked less like a crack and more like claw marks? Maybe the final episodes will be about everyone trying to flee from the giant raptor like space creature that lives in the FTL engine.


actually, what these writers need now is a time travel element...think of the drama!


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Shouldn't you put spoiler tags around that?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

Amnesia said:


> Shouldn't you put spoiler tags around that?





Spoiler



are you joking? this was a total wild-ass remark making fun of the writers...are you saying that's going to happen?

I don't watch the previews or read anything with spoilers...


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## MasterCephus (Jan 3, 2005)

I really wish the last scene would have had Zarek crying like a baby stating that he was sorry and begging for his life...it would show just what type of person he was and Gaeta would be stoic in the execution to show the viewer just what type of person each was. That would have been better IMO.

I think the cracks are going to allow Adama to basically say we have to have cylon FTL drives now becuase what Galactica has isn't going to work any more...again just another prediction.


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

MasterCephus said:


> I really wish the last scene would have had Zarek crying like a baby stating that he was sorry and begging for his life...it would show just what type of person he was and Gaeta would be stoic in the execution to show the viewer just what type of person each was. That would have been better IMO.


I'll agree that Zarek's composure weakened the dramatic effect of Gaeta's stoicism. But for all his flaws, the one thing Zarek wasn't was an abject coward. And one thing he _was_ was a realist; if he'd thought there was the slightest chance of worming his way out of it, you can bet he would have been turning on the charm, begging for mercy, whatever it took. But as it was, there was realy no point in that, so better to accept his fate with some dignity and the cold-blooded calm he excelled at.



> I think the cracks are going to allow Adama to basically say we have to have cylon FTL drives now becuase what Galactica has isn't going to work any more...again just another prediction.


That's certainly one possibility. The other is that Galactica's inability to run will be a convenient way to arrange an all-or-nothing final battle when the main Cylon fleet shows up...


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

dcheesi said:


> IThat's certainly one possibility. The other is that Galactica's inability to run will be a convenient way to arrange an all-or-nothing final battle when the main Cylon fleet shows up...


Or at least make sure the fleet hangs around to really uncover the mystery of Earth...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

dcheesi said:


> I'm guessing you're right about the second part, although I shared the majority interpretation on the first part. IMHO that crack didn't look brand new, but rather an old one that's been slowly spreading. Chances are they'll decide that any further jumps would be too dangerous until it's fixed.


I took it as a sign that the metal in the ship is experiencing fatigue and simply repairing the crack isn't going to fix the problem, because this crack is likely just the tip of the iceberg. I agree with MasterCephus that Galactica has probably made its final jump.


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## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

doom1701 said:


> Did anyone else thing the crack looked less like a crack and more like claw marks? Maybe the final episodes will be about everyone trying to flee from the giant raptor like space creature that lives in the FTL engine.


Actually no, there is framework bent below the crack, I have posted screencaps elsewhere, if you look where Tyrol puts his right hand that's where it is warped...


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## doom1701 (May 15, 2001)

dfergie said:


> Actually no, there is framework bent below the crack, I have posted screencaps elsewhere, if you look where Tyrol puts his right hand that's where it is warped...


I'm at least half heartedly joking about that. I've lost some faith with this show, but I don't seriously expect there to be some giant raptor like moster living in the FTL drive.


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

busyba said:


> Every episode has something in the opening like "##,### people... searching for Earth" (changed to searching for "a home" after Earth ended up being a disappointment ) where ##,### is the current human population count.


interesting to note... I'm watching the Season3 box set. none of the episodes on the first disc have "people counts". I don't know if that's a flaw with the box set, or because in the first 4 epps there was no "official" counts because of the Cylon Occupation of New Caprica. I'll find out tonight when I watch disc 2


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

dfergie said:


> Actually no, there is framework bent below the crack, I have posted screencaps elsewhere, if you look where Tyrol puts his right hand that's where it is warped...


Please link.


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## bengalfreak (Oct 20, 2002)

IndyJones1023 said:


> Racetrack is even better looking in person!


Ugh, that's good looking?


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## IndyJones1023 (Apr 1, 2002)

bengalfreak said:


> Ugh, that's good looking?


No, not me. Her!


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

Southcross said:


> interesting to note... I'm watching the Season3 box set. none of the episodes on the first disc have "people counts". I don't know if that's a flaw with the box set, or because in the first 4 epps there was no "official" counts because of the Cylon Occupation of New Caprica. I'll find out tonight when I watch disc 2


this is very interesting... proof that the writers make very subtle details in the plot....

I can confirm that s03e01,02,03,04 do NOT show the total human population, during the cylon occupation, but the very end of episode 04 the "president's" aide presents a report of confirmed survivors/refuges... s03e05 again starts showing the human ##,### count


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## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

Sherminator said:


> Please link.


 Right *Here *... 
_mods please delete if against rules..._


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## pkscout (Jan 11, 2003)

These two episodes were pretty good, I just wish they hadn't wasted two of the last 11 episodes on another coup plot. It seems like if they needed Anders near death they could have had a 5 minute accident and spent the other 115 minutes (OK 85 minutes after commercials) dealing with closing the loop on the mythology or something.


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## zalusky (Apr 5, 2002)

Maybe the coup aka division within the fleet paralleling the division with the cylons is Germaine to "It will happen scenario".


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## Sherminator (Nov 24, 2004)

dfergie said:


> Right *Here *...
> _mods please delete if against rules..._


Thank you, I don't know why it would be against the rules to link to another forum, or to even post those pics, as I and others have posted screencaps on this board for demonstration purposes.


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## adrianpaulherrin (Feb 13, 2009)

I think the crack is going to lead to an investigation, its outcome the ship id severely damaged and can not jump. 

So where could this go ?

_ The ship is decommissioned in space moving equipment vipers and raptors to the cylon base ship and the fleet.

- If the bad cylons turned up before this could be completed Galactica could go out in one final bang like Pegasus

- This third race that Starbuck has met possibly have two abilities 

1. Can down load Humans (STARBUCK)

2. Can recreate ships (STARBUCK VIPER)

-So would,nt it be intresting if the see the fleet come up across a brand new spanking Galactica complete with all its armour plating.

_If 'they' do have the ability to download humans, where Could this go any thoughts any body?


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

adrianpaulherrin said:


> I think the crack is going to lead to an investigation, its outcome the ship id severely damaged and can not jump.
> 
> So where could this go ?
> 
> ...


welcome to TCF :up:

I'm sticking with my prediction that they will solve this with time travel...I mean, if you're gonna suck as a writer and have no plan, you might as well go "All In" with your suckage


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## IDSmoker (Apr 11, 2004)

Anubys said:


> I'm sticking with my prediction that they will solve this with time travel...I mean, if you're gonna suck as a writer and have no plan, you might as well go "All In" with your suckage


+1
I'm putting my bet on a malfunctioning jump drive sending everyone in the fleet, including cylons, into earth's pre-history.

Now to figure out what hackneyed cliche the writers will use to explain the whole 'reincarnation/resurrection/recreated viper' thing, or maybe they'll just ignore it and hope none of us notice.


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## 6079 Smith W (Oct 2, 2000)

My money's on the events of whole series being a daydream Laura Roslin has while she's sitting in the chair in the doctor's office in the beginning the the miniseries. She's imagining what her life is going to be like when the doctor tells her she has cancer. She snaps-to from her daydream and the doctor tells her that the tests were negative and she's fine. The End.


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

6079 Smith W said:


> My money's on the events of whole series being a daydream Laura Roslin has while she's sitting in the chair in the doctor's office in the beginning the the miniseries. She's imagining what her life is going to be like when the doctor tells her she has cancer. She snaps-to from her daydream and the doctor tells her that the tests were negative and she's fine. The End.


I can picture all the death threats to the Author(s), from all of the SciFi fans around the world, if that happened LOL!

I expect there to be some kind of "time travel" mishap where Kara volunteered to go on a one way mission where she left something or did something to aid them in the future


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

It ends with Bob Newhart waking up in bed next to his wife from the second Newhart show and saying, "Man, I just had the weirdest dream."


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## kimsan (Jan 23, 2002)

aintnosin said:


> It ends with Bob Newhart waking up in bed next to his wife from the second Newhart show and saying, "Man, I just had the weirdest dream."


Or Edward James Olmos waking up in a Miami bed next Don Johnson and saying, "Man, I just had the weirdest dream."


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## WinBear (Aug 24, 2000)

It's all been a kumala extract vivid hallucination.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

kimsan said:


> Or Edward James Olmos waking up in a Miami bed next Don Johnson and saying, "Man, I just had the weirdest dream."


Richard Hatch & Dirk Benedict

Greg


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Boxey and Muffit.


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## Southcross (Nov 28, 2008)

any one of those scenes would have me going:


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## dcheesi (Apr 6, 2001)

gchance said:


> Richard Hatch & Dirk Benedict
> 
> Greg


OMG, make it Hatch by himself, in old-series uniform, and I could almost believe they'd do it!


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

dcheesi said:


> OMG, make it Hatch by himself, in old-series uniform, and I could almost believe they'd do it!


I'd like to see Hatch in Ronald Moore's office for a pitch session. Moore shakes his head and says, "It'll never sell."


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