# Odd Audio Dropouts



## kbmb

I cannot explain or figure out what is happening.....here's my setup:

Comcast Cable
Roamio Plus HDMI into Yamaha Receiver HDMI into Samsung TV
Roamio Basic HDMI into Samsung TV

Recorded MARVEL the other night on the Plus. During the show, there were times where the audio would cut out and back in. Note, I've seen this before mainly on ABC shows in the past. It's real easy to see/hear the cutout because it's going through the receiver. Definite audio drop and the lights go out on the receiver. 

There was a specific 20 second block of the show where there were multiple dropouts. Here's where it gets weird.....I can, not every time, but I can back 8 and get either the dropouts to not re-appear, or be more/less during the same time. So during a 5 second block.....I might hear 2 quick dropouts.....back 8 and next time I might hear 3, or none.

Here's what I did to test things and why I'm baffled:

- swapped with a new HDMI cable between the Tivo and Receiver (still dropouts)
- swapped with a new HDMI cable between Receiver and TV (still dropouts)
- bypassed the receiver and used new HDMI from Tivo to TV (still dropouts although they are harder to hear)
- played the show on the Basic over the network (ethernet) (still dropouts)
- transferred the show to PC and used DSD to make it an MPG (can't hear any dropouts on the PC)

The things that are puzzling are

- if the dropouts where recorded, then they should occur every time played in the same spot no?
- since they don't occur exactly the same each time, I thought it was equipment related
- but if it's equipment, why would I still hear them on the Basic playing over the network

Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.

-Kevin


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## kbmb

Just an update, saw the dropouts on a recording of the Tonight Show, so it's not just ABC. Again, I was able to rewind and have the dropout not happen.

-Kevin


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## JARON46

I have had the same issue with my Roamio Plus the sound gets warbled and I can back it up a few seconds and the sound clears up.


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Just an update, saw the dropouts on a recording of the Tonight Show, so it's not just ABC. Again, I was able to rewind and have the dropout not happen.
> 
> -Kevin


I get one every few hours. I blame it on a crappy DD 5.1 hardware/software. They never happen when viewing DD 2.0 or DD EX or when watching a streaming movie on Amazon (which is DD+ 5.1). Just as an experiment, drop to PCM for a day to see if they disappear.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I get one every few hours. I blame it on a crappy DD 5.1 hardware/software. They never happen when viewing DD 2.0 or DD EX or when watching a streaming movie on Amazon (which is DD+ 5.1). Just as an experiment, drop to PCM for a day to see if they disappear.


So would it be hardware even when in home streaming to my other Tivo? Which hardware at that point....the Plus (where it's coming from) or the Basic where it's playing?

My Dad mentioned he's been seeing more and more with his Basic.

-Kevin


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## sheshechic

I thought the problem was coming from the originator (either Charter, or the station) since it doesn't happen every day, and there are long periods between the times it happens. My AVR is a Denon.


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## kbmb

sheshechic said:


> I thought the problem was coming from the originator (either Charter, or the station) since it doesn't happen every day, and there are long periods between the times it happens. My AVR is a Denon.


I thought so too, until I rewound and saw that it changes on playback.

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> I thought so too, until I rewound and saw that it changes on playback.
> 
> -Kevin


I agree. Sometime is so quick that the LEDs on my AVR don't even blink. Sometimes it's just long enough to make them blink. I watched a lot of older shows on the CW for a while that were DD 2.0 and never had a dropout. While it's possible this is a rare item, this is not the first time it has been a topic either.

This summer I spent many hours listening to playback on headphones, which are PCM, and never heard a dropout.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I agree. Sometime is so quick that the LEDs on my AVR don't even blink. Sometimes it's just long enough to make them blink. I watched a lot of older shows on the CW for a while that were DD 2.0 and never had a dropout. While it's possible this is a rare item, this is not the first time it has been a topic either.


That's where I notice it most.....being hooked up through a receiver, it usually makes the cutout more noticeable. When I bypassed the receiver, I had to really pay attention to notice it in most cases.

-Kevin


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## johnsom

I recently started having audio dropouts too. My AVR shows the DD stream disappearing briefly. I'm guessing there is a problem with recent software update. I hope Tivo will fix it soon as it is really annoying.


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## JoeKustra

johnsom said:


> I recently started having audio dropouts too. My AVR shows the DD stream disappearing briefly. I'm guessing there is a problem with recent software update. I hope Tivo will fix it soon as it is really annoying.


First, you should switch to PCM for a day to eliminate hardware. Second, it may be worse starting with 20.5.2, but I've seen it for a year or more. I started seeing it on my Mini with 20.5.2, but I'm not sure why. If you have a drop, then rewind, and replay doesn't have it, it's not from your content feed, it's from the TiVo output. Or so I would speculate.


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## MikeBear

Maybe it's the same audio issue as this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=530124&highlight=audio

I have the problem now and again from just hitting PAUSE, and then after resuming it has no audio for a short period of time.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> First, you should switch to PCM for a day to eliminate hardware. Second, it may be worse starting with 20.5.2, but I've seen it for a year or more. I started seeing it on my Mini with 20.5.2, but I'm not sure why. If you have a drop, then rewind, and replay doesn't have it, it's not from your content feed, it's from the TiVo output. Or so I would speculate.


So last night's Fresh off the Boat had a ton of audio glitches early on. Rewinding didn't change anything this time and when I switch to PCM.....it actually got worse. Guessing this was the feed or signal this time.

-Kevin


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## mickinct

kbmb said:


> So last night's Fresh off the Boat had a ton of audio glitches early on. Rewinding didn't change anything this time and when I switch to PCM.....it actually got worse. Guessing this was the feed or signal this time.
> 
> -Kevin


TIVO is aware of the issue and are working on a resolve.


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## kbmb

mickinct said:


> TIVO is aware of the issue and are working on a resolve.


Interesting. Is this from a tech support ticket you have open?

-Kevin


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## mickinct

kbmb said:


> Interesting. Is this from a tech support ticket you have open?
> 
> -Kevin


Spoke to csr today and was told this is a problem with signal from OTA being to low TIVO tuners should be in the 80 plus signal strength was told to try getting amp to see if fixes issue. They also said it could be hdmi cables.


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## kbmb

mickinct said:


> Spoke to csr today and was told this is a problem with signal from OTA being to low TIVO tuners should be in the 80 plus signal strength was told to try getting amp to see if fixes issue.


So that wouldn't be my issue since I'm cable and the signal is 98-100%.

-Kevin


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## MikeBear

It's IMPOSSIBLE for a Roamio doing OTA (antenna) to get a signal level higher than 72 on any channel! At least so far, not sure if a newer firmware will ever fix this.

That's been hashed out in another thread, and *absolutely proven*. If the Tivo CSR told you you have to get over 80 on an antenna signal, he's full of *****. He's quoting cable signal levels, NOT OTA.


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## mickinct

MikeBear said:


> It's IMPOSSIBLE for a Roamio doing OTA (antenna) to get a signal level higher than 72 on any channel! At least so far, not sure if a newer firmware will ever fix this.
> 
> That's been hashed out in another thread, and *absolutely proven*. If the Tivo CSR told you you have to get over 80 on an antenna signal, he's full of *****. He's quoting cable signal levels, NOT OTA.


That is what I told him, and when you check the signal on the channel to see the strength it is higher. Sometimes I get a 80 plus but in a different screen it shows max 72, confusing, if you do a channel scan I see higher numbers.


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## JoeKustra

mickinct said:


> That is what I told him, and when you check the signal on the channel to see the strength it is higher. Sometimes I get a 80 plus but in a different screen it shows max 72, confusing, if you do a channel scan I see higher numbers.


When viewing the signal with Settings, Account & System Info, TiVo box Diagnostics you see it after the AGC circuit has settled down the signal. Use the Settings, Channels, Signal Strength test and you will see a peak then it settles on 72.

The diags are broken or at least not to be trusted.


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## mickinct

JoeKustra said:


> When viewing the signal with Settings, Account & System Info, TiVo box Diagnostics you see it after the AGC circuit has settled down the signal. Use the Settings, Channels, Signal Strength test and you will see a peak then it settles on 72.
> 
> The diags are broken or at least not to be trusted.


Very odd my 35$ homeworx never had this problem......


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## kbmb

Based on what I saw last night, I'm thinking it was the broadcast since I couldn't get it to go away when I rewound.

Marvel which came on after was fine.

I seem to have the most issues with ABC programs. I'm going to keep trying the rewind or rewind and switch to PCM. 

@JoeKustra - if I do encounter this again.....and I'm able to rewind and get it to go away....that means it wasn't the broadcast. So then if I can switch to PCM and rewind and not hear it, you are saying it might be the DD in the TiVo itself?

And RS corrected errors shouldn't cause something like this correct? Only if there are RS UNcorrected? In general my signal levels are 98-100% and a SNR of 38-40dB.

-Kevin


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## mickinct

kbmb said:


> Based on what I saw last night, I'm thinking it was the broadcast since I couldn't get it to go away when I rewound.
> 
> Marvel which came on after was fine.
> 
> I seem to have the most issues with ABC programs. I'm going to keep trying the rewind or rewind and switch to PCM.
> 
> @JoeKustra - if I do encounter this again.....and I'm able to rewind and get it to go away....that means it wasn't the broadcast. So then if I can switch to PCM and rewind and not hear it, you are saying it might be the DD in the TiVo itself?
> 
> And RS corrected errors shouldn't cause something like this correct? Only if there are RS UNcorrected? In general my signal levels are 98-100% and a SNR of 38-40dB.
> 
> -Kevin


HAS anyone reported that the new BOLT has this issue??


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Based on what I saw last night, I'm thinking it was the broadcast since I couldn't get it to go away when I rewound.
> 
> Marvel which came on after was fine.
> 
> I seem to have the most issues with ABC programs. I'm going to keep trying the rewind or rewind and switch to PCM.
> 
> @JoeKustra - if I do encounter this again.....and I'm able to rewind and get it to go away....that means it wasn't the broadcast. So then if I can switch to PCM and rewind and not hear it, you are saying it might be the DD in the TiVo itself?
> 
> And RS corrected errors shouldn't cause something like this correct? Only if there are RS UNcorrected? In general my signal levels are 98-100% and a SNR of 38-40dB.
> 
> -Kevin


Two things. If it's not there with a rewind it's not part of the incoming data stream. Therefore it's from the TiVo.

My Roamio does not count RS Corrected. My SNR is 35 or 36 with a signal of 87 or 90 (respectively). All channels. A Premiere next to it has both type of errors and signals from 75 to 95. On my Roamio the OOB SNR is 388 dB. On my Premiere it is 2 dB.

I never use PCM. That's just a guess. I can live with the small dropouts.

How to test error counters: go outside, open the box and disconnect the feed. Reconnect and check the numbers. I have a cable modem. It has errors also, but only on one channel.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> Two things. If it's not there with a rewind it's not part of the incoming data stream. Therefore it's from the TiVo.
> 
> My Roamio does not count RS Corrected. My SNR is 35 or 36 with a signal of 87 or 90 (respectively). All channels. A Premiere next to it has both type of errors and signals from 75 to 95. On my Roamio the OOB SNR is 388 dB. On my Premiere it is 2 dB.
> 
> I never use PCM. That's just a guess. I can live with the small dropouts.
> 
> How to test error counters: go outside, open the box and disconnect the feed. Reconnect and check the numbers. I have a cable modem. It has errors also, but only on one channel.


Thanks Joe. Any correlation to this seemingly happening more on ABC recordings? The type of broadcast 1080i or 720p? Something the Tivo just doesn't like in the broadcast?

Overall the dropouts have been happening for over a year. It wasn't until a month or so ago that I even tried to rewind and see if it would go away. That's when I saw the MOST of the time it does go away randomly.

I can live with a single dropout or two. But sometimes over the course of a 30 minute show we could get 10+ dropouts.

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Thanks Joe. Any correlation to this seemingly happening more on ABC recordings? The type of broadcast 1080i or 720p? Something the Tivo just doesn't like in the broadcast?
> 
> Overall the dropouts have been happening for over a year. It wasn't until a month or so ago that I even tried to rewind and see if it would go away. That's when I saw the MOST of the time it does go away randomly.
> 
> I can live with a single dropout or two. But sometimes over the course of a 30 minute show we could get 10+ dropouts.
> 
> -Kevin


I seldom watch ABC but it does have my lowest HD bit rate. I never noticed it when wearing headphones this summer, which comes from the A/V that is always PCM. I very seldom hear it on recordings, if ever. Until 20.5.2 I never had the issue on my Mini. But that's not something I can really test.


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## kbmb

Watched a couple shows tonight, most fine. Only audio dropout was at the beginning of Modern Family.

So, this was a typical dropout.....I could rewind and sometimes it would go away. Sometimes it wouldn't, or even get worse.

I then switched to PCM from DD. What's interesting is with PCM, instead of full dropouts, it's like most of the dialog around the dropout areas is slightly garbled.....almost like they are talking underwater slightly. With PCM it always happened.

I'm wondering now if what is recorded is what PCM is showing.....the slightly garbled audio.....with DD, as it's reading it sometimes it drops the audio out completely for a second?!? Could the root cause be the actual program?

-Kevin


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## kbmb

So one thing I'm going to try for next week is to set up the recordings on two different stations at the same time. Being in southern NH we get both the Boston ABC and our local ABC. 

I'm going to record on the Boston ABC on the upstairs TiVo and I'm gonna record on both the Boston and local ABCs on the downstairs TiVo to to see if there's any difference. 

-Kevin


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## kbmb

So I recorded Marvel on both ABC stations I have access too. I did notice that the typical Boston recording had an audio glitch that I could again rewind and get it to either go away or reappear. 

However, the local NH station did not have the same glitch. It only had one very minor dropout that was always there, even with a rewind. 

I'm still baffled. For now I think I'll switch my ABC recordings to the local affiliate and see how it goes. It seems there is something with the Boston feed that has these glitches that sometimes the TiVo can recover, and other times it can't. 

-Kevin


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## dhoward

mickinct said:


> HAS anyone reported that the new BOLT has this issue??


I have a Bolt an I am experiencing the same problem. I output the tivo to a Yamaha receiver and then a Panasonic Plasma TV. I have tried the same things mentioned in this thread with no change. This is the first Tivo I have had with this type of problem. I skipped over the Roamio series so I cannot speak for these. It is not occurring so much that it takes anything away from watching but as mentioined it is more noticiable because you visually see the receiver display blink. Having read this thread it does seem like abc is the biggest culprit. I hope there is a software fix for this but first Tivo has to admit to a problem.


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## kbmb

dhoward said:


> I have a Bolt an I am experiencing the same problem. I output the tivo to a Yamaha receiver and thena Panasonic Plasma TV. I have tried the same things mentioned in this thread with no change. This is the first Tivo I have had with this type of problem. I skipped over the Roamio series so I cannot speak for these. It is not occurring so much that it takes anything away from watching but as mentioined it is more noticiable because you visually see the receiver display blink. Having read this thread it does seem like abc is the biggest culprit. I hope there is a software fix for this but first Tivo has to admit to a problem.


Interesting you are seeing on the Bolt as well. I have a few more shows to watch tonight that I recorded on my local ABC affiliate......hoping it doesn't occur on them.

Wondering if it's something in the broadcast that the Tivo software can't handle.

-Kevin


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## dhoward

Any chance it is the cable card?


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## kbmb

dhoward said:


> Any chance it is the cable card?


I don't know a ton about Cable Cards, but I wouldn't think so. The CC just maps the channels that you are allowed to see.

Have you tried to rewind and see if the cutout goes away? That seems to be key in some of these. If you can rewind and the cutout doesn't go away, it is likely that it was recorded that way and the problem was probably the broadcast of the station at the time. If you can get it to go away, then nothing was recorded....which some on here tend to then blame the Tivo for the issue.

That's where I am for most of these.....I can rewind and have it go away (sometimes).

-Kevin


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## dhoward

Unfortunately mine is the same as yours.


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## Garywc

Ive had the same issue for at least a year with my Roamio. Most of the time its annoying, but I can still follow the story line. Occasionally, its so severe I have to shut it off and walk away. Some times rewinding will help, and turning the mute function on and off seems to help. With my system, the problem is NOT related to one channel. When Im having issues, the problem occurs on every recording that I try to watch. It also occurs if I try to watch live TV through the TiVo. It does NOT occur if I watch live TV on the same set while bypassing the TiVo. Also, I have had severe drop outs, and then watched the same recording through the TiVo mini and had no issues at all. 

I have a basic Roamio connected via HDMI through a tuning adaptor to a Sony TV.


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## JoeKustra

Garywc said:


> I have a basic Roamio connected via HDMI through a tuning adaptor to a Sony TV.


Since you are using your TV speakers and not an AVR, try switching to PCM and see if the issue gets better. I never had a problem with the A/V output to my headphones.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> Since you are using your TV speakers and not an AVR, try switching to PCM and see if the issue gets better. I never had a problem with the A/V output to my headphones.


Joe - for me as a test I did switch to PCM once when I had cutouts (even though I'm going through a receiver) - and the cutouts were worse under PCM. Almost as if the entire block of the show was garbled.

-Kevin


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## dhoward

I have actually encountered this on my Bolt when playing back a recording from my Premiere that I had transferred to the Bolt during setup. Not as noticeable as the shows recorded directly via the Bolt but there never the less.


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Joe - for me as a test I did switch to PCM once when I had cutouts (even though I'm going through a receiver) - and the cutouts were worse under PCM. Almost as if the entire block of the show was garbled.
> 
> -Kevin


I have a bunch of CW DD2.0 programs saved up. I think I will switch to PCM and watch a few. You are probably right. I have changed all my HDMI cables with no affect and I'm not going to drop out my AVR. Perhaps I will move some DD 5.1 over to my Premiere too. I've just sort of given up of the problem. It's just a low priority for me.


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## Garywc

I recovered the CBS Evening news program that was un-watchable last night (8:30 pm +/-). with dropouts lasting several seconds at a time. I rewatched it this afternoon (3:00 pm), and the program had ZERO dropouts. I hadn't been monitoring the signal strength, but this afternoon the 4 tuners were fluctuating between 87% to 92%. I will look at the signal strengths the next time I get dropouts.


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## kbmb

Lots of dropouts for this weeks Scorpion on CBS. Again, rewinding has them go away. 

I wish TiVo had a program to submit bugs. Support is generally useless. 

-Kevin


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## NashGuy

I have a Roamio OTA that is connected via optical audio (Toslink) to my Pioneer receiver and via HDMI to my TV. Prior to that I had the Roamio connected only to the receiver via HDMI ,with both video and audio routed that way. Both ways I have heard numerous split-second audio drop-outs, both on live and recorded OTA TV but never on any streaming source (including DD 5.1 content). Sometimes when I skip back and replay the bit where the audio dropped out, it won't drop out on replay. But then sometimes it does. In some cases, I can imagine the problem is due to a brief problem with my OTA signal (strength ranges from 65 to 72 on all channels) but I know that's not the case every time it happens. There's definitely something wrong with TiVo's DD audio processing. Fortunately, it seems to happening less now. Months ago, I seemed to notice audio drop-outs multiple times a day. Now it happens a few times a week.

I called and reported the problem to TiVo support months ago but the guy knew nothing about it and had no solutions to offer once we established that my OTA signals were good.


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Lots of dropouts for this weeks Scorpion on CBS. Again, rewinding has them go away.
> 
> I wish TiVo had a program to submit bugs. Support is generally useless.
> 
> -Kevin


I just moved my recordings of the last three episodes of Scorpion to my Premiere. I'm going to watch them Saturday and I'll check the audio.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I just moved my recordings of the last three episodes of Scorpion to my Premiere. I'm going to watch them Saturday and I'll check the audio.


Hopefully you have no dropouts.....and that you can last through 3 episodes of this show all at once  There have been some BAD episodes this year.

-Kevin


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## kbmb

Watched our recording of The Blacklist on NBC last night. Had a spot that had the worst dropouts we've ever had......tried rewinding to little success in having it get better. Ended up going to Comcast VOD to watch that segment. Once the next commercial break came (because we couldn't stand having to watch 4 minutes of commercials ), we switched back to the recording. We were able to watch the rest of the show on the recording fine. 

Here's what is really weird......at the end I went back to the bad spot. I couldn't get it to dropout the audio again.

Getting tired of this. Seems now it's hit or miss on every recording. Nothing wrong with my signals into the house. Wife is about ready to just give up and switch to X1 (cringe).

-Kevin


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## kbmb

NashGuy said:


> I have a Roamio OTA that is connected via optical audio (Toslink) to my Pioneer receiver and via HDMI to my TV. Prior to that I had the Roamio connected only to the receiver via HDMI ,with both video and audio routed that way. Both ways I have heard numerous split-second audio drop-outs, both on live and recorded OTA TV but never on any streaming source (including DD 5.1 content). Sometimes when I skip back and replay the bit where the audio dropped out, it won't drop out on replay. But then sometimes it does. In some cases, I can imagine the problem is due to a brief problem with my OTA signal (strength ranges from 65 to 72 on all channels) but I know that's not the case every time it happens. There's definitely something wrong with TiVo's DD audio processing. Fortunately, it seems to happening less now. Months ago, I seemed to notice audio drop-outs multiple times a day. Now it happens a few times a week.
> 
> I called and reported the problem to TiVo support months ago but the guy knew nothing about it and had no solutions to offer once we established that my OTA signals were good.


Not surprising TiVo wouldn't know about it. Don't think TiVo support these days can do much other than help people with basic problems.

You are describing pretty much what happens to me. Rewind and sometimes it's fixed, other times not. And it's random.....I could rewind 10 times and maybe it's fixed 8 of those times. For me I've seen it across all networks.

Seems it's getting worse for me sadly.

-Kevin


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## kbmb

Tried something interesting tonight. Watching the Big Bang Theory and had a couple dropouts. So I hit back 8 a few times then I hit Live TV. Then I went back in to watch the recording. Didn't have anymore dropouts....including the 2 that I backed 8 over. 

No idea if this means anything. All I know is the skipping is getting worse.

-Kevin


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## kbmb

So TiVo support on Twitter thinking it could be RS corrected values causing the audio dropouts. They say it can be affected more on recordings with RS corrected values. 

Guess it's back to playing with signal levels and attenuators. 

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> So TiVo support on Twitter thinking it could be RS corrected values causing the audio dropouts. They say it can be affected more on recordings with RS corrected values.
> 
> Guess it's back to playing with signal levels and attenuators.
> 
> -Kevin


Yesterday I finished watching all three episodes of Scorpion and two of The Black list. Not a single audio dropout. However, my real time watching of CBS and MSNBC has several every day. I also have a problem: my counter for RS Corrected is always zero. If I pull the rf feed I can get thousands of RS Uncorrected, but never any RS Corrected. I can even see streaks of video interference at times. I'm pretty sure the problem is with the feed to the cable company. But anyhow, since I can watch recordings without errors, I can live with the problem. I'm looking forward to 20.5.4 since it has an audio fix. We'll see.

edit: Perhaps when not using a tuner the problem is gone? Even with Prime (DD+) or my CW (DD 2.0), I don't recall a dropout. That something for me to look at.

BTW, RS Corrected is an error counter, not an error producer.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> Yesterday I finished watching all three episodes of Scorpion and two of The Black list. Not a single audio dropout. However, my real time watching of CBS and MSNBC has several every day. I also have a problem: my counter for RS Corrected is always zero. If I pull the rf feed I can get thousands of RS Uncorrected, but never any RS Corrected. I can even see streaks of video interference at times. I'm pretty sure the problem is with the feed to the cable company. But anyhow, since I can watch recordings without errors, I can live with the problem. I'm looking forward to 20.5.4 since it has an audio fix. We'll see.
> 
> edit: Perhaps when not using a tuner the problem is gone? Even with Prime (DD+) or my CW (DD 2.0), I don't recall a dropout. That something for me to look at.
> 
> BTW, RS Corrected is an error counter, not an error producer.


Joe,

Thanks for the tests. I'm again baffled by Tivos numbers between the Basic and Plus.

My Basic almost never has any RS errors (either corrected or uncorrected). My Plus on the other hand does get errors...usually corrected.

I'm trying to figure out if this is a Plus/Pro issue with the built in amp. Without any attenuation (coming out of a 7dB port on a 3-way splitter), my Plus will have 100% signal and 41-43 dB SNR. I can get errors with this. I've been running with a -3 db attenuator that will drop signals in the 98-99% range with 39 dB SNR.

I've decided, based on some people saying splitters (with terminated ports) do a better job than attenuators, to try this......since I don't have another 3 way splitter right now.....I chained 2 two way splitters each with -3.5 dB to reduce the signal down another -7dB to the Plus. This will get my signal levels down anywhere from 93-98% generally and SNR 37-39dB.

BTW, I did try both a -6dB attenuator and left it overnight. Still had corrected errors in the morning. Also briefly put on a -10dB....but that dropped everything too far. That's why I'm trying the splitters with a -7dB total drop.

I feel like I'm fighting this thing when I shouldn't be. Again, I don't really have any visual errors. No macroblocking, no pixelation. It's just these random audio dropouts.

I know in an ideal world 0 RS corrected is best.....but is it really bad to have a couple hundred over the course of a night?

And what Tivo support on twitter said last night....that RS corrected errors sound like the cause for these dropouts.......wouldn't corrected errors have been, well, corrected?!? How is a corrected error cause an audio dropout on a playback....when a rewind fixes it?

-Kevin


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I'm looking forward to 20.5.4 since it has an audio fix. We'll see.


BTW....is this confirmed that 20.5.4 has an audio fix? Any details on what the fix is?

I've had this Plus since 2013.....same setup, same cabling, same cable package, same cable card. I don't remember ever having these audio issues until mid last year. So I'm hoping it's a software bug.

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Joe,
> 
> Thanks for the tests. I'm again baffled by Tivos numbers between the Basic and Plus.
> 
> I know in an ideal world 0 RS corrected is best.....but is it really bad to have a couple hundred over the course of a night?
> 
> And what Tivo support on twitter said last night....that RS corrected errors sound like the cause for these dropouts.......wouldn't corrected errors have been, well, corrected?!? How is a corrected error cause an audio dropout on a playback....when a rewind fixes it?
> 
> -Kevin





kbmb said:


> BTW....is this confirmed that 20.5.4 has an audio fix? Any details on what the fix is?
> 
> I've had this Plus since 2013.....same setup, same cabling, same cable package, same cable card. I don't remember ever having these audio issues until mid last year. So I'm hoping it's a software bug.
> 
> -Kevin


I saw in a post that audio issues with low volume have been addressed with the next release. But since the TiVo priority page, put up today, indicates 20.4.8 so I don't know what's going on.

The Plus/Pro are different than a basic. I just learned that. So having 100 on a non-basic isn't always a bad thing. I always have 87/90 on my basic, with a SNR of 35/36 dB. Always.

If you can reach any part of the cable feed to your TiVo, just disconnect the rf for a second and then attach it. That causes thousands of errors on my Roamio (Uncorrected only) and both of my Premieres (both Corrected and Uncorrected). I have access to the box where it feeds my house, so I can pull the plug on everything from one place. That includes my cable modem.

I watch the Bolt forum and haven't heard a peep about audio problems. But they are quite noticeable on my Roamio and the slave Mini. The Mini issue was not always there, so I agree things have become worse since the last major update. I really hope it gets corrected with the next fix, which should happen soon.

Please ignore TiVo support when it feels they are wrong. I was lucky when I got my Roamio with two bad tuners and I worked with a very good CS person. It probably helped that I knew more than he did. 

Having many errors overnight on ALL tuners leads me to think you have a bad cable drop and should call you cable company. I don't know if you can see errors on your cable modem, but they would be affected also.


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I saw in a post that audio issues with low volume have been addressed with the next release. But since the TiVo priority page, put up today, indicates 20.4.8 so I don't know what's going on.
> 
> The Plus/Pro are different than a basic. I just learned that. So having 100 on a non-basic isn't always a bad thing. I always have 87/90 on my basic, with a SNR of 35/36 dB. Always.
> 
> If you can reach any part of the cable feed to your TiVo, just disconnect the rf for a second and then attach it. That causes thousands of errors on my Roamio (Uncorrected only) and both of my Premieres (both Corrected and Uncorrected). I have access to the box where it feeds my house, so I can pull the plug on everything from one place. That includes my cable modem.
> 
> I watch the Bolt forum and haven't heard a peep about audio problems. But they are quite noticeable on my Roamio and the slave Mini. The Mini issue was not always there, so I agree things have become worse since the last major update. I really hope it gets corrected with the next fix, which should happen soon.
> 
> Please ignore TiVo support when it feels they are wrong. I was lucky when I got my Roamio with two bad tuners and I worked with a very good CS person. It probably helped that I knew more than he did.
> 
> Having many errors overnight on ALL tuners leads me to think you have a bad cable drop and should call you cable company. I don't know if you can see errors on your cable modem, but they would be affected also.


So this might actually not be a Plus issue at all. My parents (live about 50 minutes away) have 2 Basic Roamios. I was talking to my Mom who also watches the Blacklist and said she also had the same bad dropouts that I did on our Plus last week. My Dad doesn't watch the Blacklist....but he's seen more and more dropouts as well.

This leads me to think there is some issue with the Tivo software. I just wish we could get an acknowledgment of it.

I'm watching my RS corrected numbers.....to see if they go anywhere. For my test last night with the -6dB attenuator....I woke up this morning to mostly RS corrected numbers in the 100-300 range.

I actually have 2 cable runs to this TV.....I switched to the other one today to see if there was a difference. They are a straight shot from the splitter, about 30'......newer cable (about 8 years old). *EDIT: * also the drop to the house is underground and also newer......replaced from pole to house about 12 years ago.

I still do think the Plus/Pro is just that much more finicky than the Basic with the signal levels.

I'm also not convinced the RS Corrected has anything to do with it. Pretty sure I ran the first year of this Plus with no attenuation and had no issues.

@dhoward in this thread #30 has a Bolt is did have this issue as well.

-Kevin


----------



## dhoward

JoeKustra said:


> I watch the Bolt forum and haven't heard a peep about audio problems.
> 
> Actually I posted earlier in this thread that I have a Bolt and have the audio drop outs. I went from a Premiere to the Bolt. Don't remember ever seeing it on the Premiere but noticed it right away on the Bolt. So the Bolt shares the problem.


----------



## JoeKustra

dhoward said:


> JoeKustra said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watch the Bolt forum and haven't heard a peep about audio problems.
> 
> Actually I posted earlier in this thread that I have a Bolt and have the audio drop outs. I went from a Premiere to the Bolt. Don't remember ever seeing it on the Premiere but noticed it right away on the Bolt. So the Bolt shares the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> That's not good. I use my Premiere daily for a few hours and have never has an issue either.
Click to expand...


----------



## dhoward

The problem seems to have been introduced at the Roamio level.


----------



## L David Matheny

kbmb said:


> My Basic almost never has any RS errors (either corrected or uncorrected). My Plus on the other hand does get errors...usually corrected.


I use my Roamio Basic for OTA reception only, and it has _never_ shown any corrected errors. I'm beginning to suspect that TiVo is just using the same code for the OTA/cable tuners in the Basic that they use for the cable-only tuners in the Plus and Pro, even though the error counts should be read from different registers in the Basic's tuner chipset. That might explain why they've never gotten around to fixing the problem.



kbmb said:


> BTW, I did try both a -6dB attenuator and left it overnight. Still had corrected errors in the morning. Also briefly put on a -10dB....but that dropped everything too far. That's why I'm trying the splitters with a -7dB total drop.
> 
> I feel like I'm fighting this thing when I shouldn't be. Again, I don't really have any visual errors. No macroblocking, no pixelation. It's just these random audio dropouts.
> 
> I know in an ideal world 0 RS corrected is best.....but is it really bad to have a couple hundred over the course of a night?
> 
> And what Tivo support on twitter said last night....that RS corrected errors sound like the cause for these dropouts.......wouldn't corrected errors have been, well, corrected?!? How is a corrected error cause an audio dropout on a playback....when a rewind fixes it?
> 
> -Kevin


A modest number of corrected errors shouldn't be cause for concern, especially with OTA signals, because corrected errors should have no visible or audible effect in the final data sent to disk. As you say, they have been (by definition) corrected. Sometimes video or audio glitches can occur upstream, so that they're already encoded in the data received (without errors we hope) by the TiVo's tuners. Such earlier errors are now just part of the data. Playback errors that are repeatable when replayed are assumed to be either such preexisting data errors or reception errors (which should be reflected in the error counts).

Playback errors that are not repeatable are presumably caused by either hard drive sluggishness (possible symptomatic of a failing drive) or evidence of sloppy realtime code in TiVo's playback routines which are allowing overrun or underrun conditions in the data being fed to whatever chip generates the A/V signals from the data. I don't know much about the architecture of the chipsets TiVo uses, but prioritized realtime multithreading using hardware interrupts can be tricky.


----------



## kbmb

L David Matheny said:


> I use my Roamio Basic for OTA reception only, and it has _never_ shown any corrected errors. I'm beginning to suspect that TiVo is just using the same code for the OTA/cable tuners in the Basic that they use for the cable-only tuners in the Plus and Pro, even though the error counts should be read from different registers in the Basic's tuner chipset. That might explain why they've never gotten around to fixing the problem.
> 
> A modest number of corrected errors shouldn't be cause for concern, especially with OTA signals, because corrected errors should have no visible or audible effect in the final data sent to disk. As you say, they have been (by definition) corrected. Sometimes video or audio glitches can occur upstream, so that they're already encoded in the data received (without errors we hope) by the TiVo's tuners. Such earlier errors are now just part of the data. Playback errors that are repeatable when replayed are assumed to be either such preexisting data errors or reception errors (which should be reflected in the error counts).
> 
> Playback errors that are not repeatable are presumably caused by either hard drive sluggishness (possible symptomatic of a failing drive) or evidence of sloppy realtime code in TiVo's playback routines which are allowing overrun or underrun conditions in the data feeding the demodulators (or whatever generates the A/V signals from the data). I don't know much about the architecture of the chipsets TiVo uses, but prioritized realtime multithreading using hardware interrupts can be tricky.


Thanks for the info. I'm on Comcast cable for both my Plus and Basic.

On the Plus I tend to see RS Corrected errors in the low hundreds at times. Again, during all these audio dropouts I've never seen pixelation. Picture is fine.

I'm only starting to look at RS Corrected because Tivo support on twitter mentioned it.

So is an RS Corrected error written to disk corrected? Meaning, if a show is recording, and there are RS Corrected errors.....shouldn't they be written to disk corrected and played back fine? This is where I'm not understanding Tivo support is saying that RS Corrected errors are a leading cause of audio dropouts.

-Kevin


----------



## L David Matheny

kbmb said:


> So is an RS Corrected error written to disk corrected? Meaning, if a show is recording, and there are RS Corrected errors.....shouldn't they be written to disk corrected and played back fine? This is where I'm not understanding Tivo support is saying that RS Corrected errors are a leading cause of audio dropouts.


Reception errors should be corrected (if possible) by the tuner chipset during reception, before the data stream is written to disk, and they should cause no visible or audible glitches. I would think that the error correction should be done entirely in hardware, but if TiVo's program code has to react to errors as part of the correction process, then maybe the time required for that could cause data overrun or underrun conditions. It would be interesting to talk to TiVo's programmers, but I suspect that their support staff may be confused.


----------



## kbmb

L David Matheny said:


> Reception errors should be corrected (if possible) by the tuner chipset during reception, before the data stream is written to disk, and they should cause no visible or audible glitches. I would think that the error correction should be done entirely in hardware, but if TiVo's program code has to react to errors as part of the correction process, then maybe the time required for that could cause data overrun or underrun conditions. It would be interesting to talk to TiVo's programmers, but I suspect that their support staff may be confused.


Thanks. Yeah, I'm not so sure Tivo support is correct here.....but you never know.

I'm curious to those viewing this thread......of those with a Plus/Pro on Cable....what do your RS Corrected and RS Uncorrected look like?

Of course Tivo support wanted me to look at the numbers when I see the audio dropout....but of course, I'm never watching live TV.....so looking at the numbers doesn't do any good.

I'm not convinced at this point that the audio dropouts are signal related, since my parents who have the Basic, in a different location, are also seeing more dropouts.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

I gave you a simple test. While watching TV, pull the RF connection. Then connect it. Go to the system information screens and look at your errors. You don't even have to completely remove the connector. Just wait until the video stops, then screw it back in. Not all Roamio boxes fail to count errors. But this is a really good test.

I forget if your are cable or OTA. If cable, what is your OOB SNR? It's at the end of the tuner's diagnostics screens. Mine is about 380 dB.


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I gave you a simple test. While watching TV, pull the RF connection. Then connect it. Go to the system information screens and look at your errors. You don't even have to completely remove the connector. Just wait until the video stops, then screw it back in. Not all Roamio boxes fail to count errors. But this is a really good test.
> 
> I forget if your are cable or OTA. If cable, what is your OOB SNR? It's at the end of the tuner's diagnostics screens. Mine is about 380 dB.


I am Comcast Cable.

My Roamio Basic OOB SNR: 384-402dB
My Roamio Plus OOB SNR: 36dB

So I did the pull the RF connection on both. For each I pulled up the diagnostics screen and watched it while I pulled the RF connection. The results are:

*Roamio Basic*
As I was unscrewing the connector, not much happening. Once it was loose enough to pull out, RS Uncorrected went wild, into the millions and counting. Didn't see anything on RS corrected.

*Roamio Plus*
As I was unscrewing the connector, I could see both the RS Corrected and Uncorrected start going up.....only into the thousands. Once I had the cable unplugged, it seemed the numbers just froze there. They didn't keep going up like the Basic.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

Outstanding. 

Now we light a candle and find ways to get TiVo to fix it. I'm headed to their support site.


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> Outstanding.
> 
> Now we light a candle and find ways to get TiVo to fix it. I'm headed to their support site.


So, what exactly is this telling you?

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> So, what exactly is this telling you?
> 
> -Kevin


That the diagnostics are broken in some Roamio basics. That the audio issue is not our A/V systems. I left a post on the TiVo support forums. No, it's not as bad for me as it is for you, but we need it fixed. Also, I guess I feel helpless since I don't have the tools to find the problem. That whole crap about the RS errors got me started I guess. I wonder if that CS person even knows what RS stands for?


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> That the diagnostics are broken in some Roamio basics. That the audio issue is not our A/V systems. I left a post on the TiVo support forums. No, it's not as bad for me as it is for you, but we need it fixed. Also, I guess I feel helpless since I don't have the tools to find the problem. That whole crap about the RS errors got me started I guess. I wonder if that CS person even knows what RS stands for?


From all my past experiences with support.....I don't think any have a clue. They all just read a script. The only time I got real help was when Margret got a higher level support person to reach out to me (can't remember what the problem was).

-Kevin


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> That the diagnostics are broken in some Roamio basics. That the audio issue is not our A/V systems. I left a post on the TiVo support forums. No, it's not as bad for me as it is for you, but we need it fixed. Also, I guess I feel helpless since I don't have the tools to find the problem. That whole crap about the RS errors got me started I guess. I wonder if that CS person even knows what RS stands for?


Thanks for pointing this out as I know see I've wasted a ton of time thinking my Basic diagnostics were correct in all these tests.

-Kevin


----------



## tgenius

So I noticed really low audio (was set to dolby plugged into my AVR via HDMI. I had to change it to PCM and now the audio is acceptable. i just started with the TiVO so I'm hoping it gets fixed soon.


----------



## JoeKustra

tgenius said:


> So I noticed really low audio (was set to dolby plugged into my AVR via HDMI. I had to change it to PCM and now the audio is acceptable. i just started with the TiVO so I'm hoping it gets fixed soon.


That's what I saw was fixed as part of the new release. Since my PCM is very low, I'll be interested how it changes my output. Patience I guess.

BTW, I use the A/V for headphones and I found it quite high. Only the HDMI was low.


----------



## dhoward

Has there been any new info regarding these dropouts? Although it is not a showstopper it is a little irritating. I never saw this on my Premier. I have a base Roamio that my wife uses and I don't think she would even notice it since she is playing it directly via the tv and no receiver is involved. The Bolt definitely exhibits it. It is my guess that this may have started with the Roamio and is carrying thru to the Bolt. I hope there will be a solution. Other then that I am enjoying my Bolt.


----------



## kbmb

dhoward said:


> Has there been any new info regarding these dropouts? Although it is not a showstopper it is a little irritating. I never saw this on my Premier. I have a base Roamio that my wife uses and I don't think she would even notice it since she is playing it directly via the tv and no receiver is involved. The Bolt definitely exhibits it. It is my guess that this may have started with the Roamio and is carrying thru to the Bolt. I hope there will be a solution. Other then that I am enjoying my Bolt.


Only thing so far that I've done for my Plus is play around with attenuating the signal.

I have been running for close to a year a -3dB attenuator. That has brought the signals down to 96+ and usually a 36-39dB SNR. This is how I've seen a lot of the dropouts.

So I then tried a -6dB attenuator. Basically same results.....still had dropouts.

Some people said bringing the signal down with terminated splitters is better, so I tried to 2-way splitters for a total of -7dB. Basically the same results.

I finally said forget it.....and took all extra splitters off so I'm feeding my Plus with the main 3 way that is on the -7dB run. Yes, my signals are generally back to 100% and the SNR is usually 39-41dB SNR. But you know what I found.....I'm getting far fewer audio dropouts. Can't explain it......and I don't know for sure if it is really helping, but we watched almost all our recorded shows this week with not a single audio dropout. Also noticed that I do have SOME channels, even with this high signal, will still get to 99%. So I can't be THAT much higher than 100 on the others.

During all this I was also tracking RS errors. Anytime I attenuated the signal, over time I would get both corrected and uncorrected errors. Not sure if this has anything to do with the dropouts.

Since taking all attenuators off, I've also turned off suggestions so tuners stay on the same channel all day long. What I've noticed is most of my major network channels have little to no errors. Maybe some corrected errors in the teens.

I have also noticed that some cable networks get far more errors. So channels like ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox get very few errors. But channels like Discovery, HBO get a lot more errors over time. Mostly corrected in the low thousands (1200) for example....and usually some uncorrected errors. Only problem right now is we don't have many shows on those channels, so not sure if they are getting audio dropouts or not. Most of our viewing is network TV.

The other thing I got to thinking of is the overall signal and the amping of the Plus signal. Way back when I got the Plus I still had a Comcast DVR in the house. And as I've been seeing in my tests, switching the Basic and Plus has the signals follow the box. Also placing the Comcast box on the line would show good SNR. Comcast tech at the time even measured the signal at the wall and it was fine. So why would I do this: Take a perfectly good signal at the wall ......attenuate it (making it worse)......then have the Plus amp it back up.

Like I said.....I don't give a crap that my signals in the diags are 100% and 41 SNR. My picture is great and SO FAR, I haven't had dropouts. Time will tell if they come back, and I'll be sure to report it here.

Until the day the TiVo itself pops up a warning to let the user know the signal is "too high", I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Support can pound sand. Comcast said my signal levels are fine. Basic claims signal fine. If the signal is too high on the Plus....it's the Pluses fault 

Still hoping Tivo can tweak software to fix the overall issue. Even with attenuating, I never got signal levels below 90%. If Tivo is THAT sensitive, they should be ashamed.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

I left a post on TiVo's support forum. Not a single response.

Yesterday I had a cable company tech come by since my modem was rebooting a lot. When he changed the tap on the pole, my TiVos counted over a million uncorrected errors and zero corrected errors.


----------



## keenanSR

Any update on this? I thought it was just me until I came across this thread. 

Comcast>Roamio Basic>Denon X4000

I've had audio dropouts on HBO, the AVR will not flash a loss of audio but it definitely drops out, cuts out completely but very briefly. It's not been exclusive to HBO although it's where I recall it happening as it's usually towards the end of an episode but not always, currently "The Leftovers". I have not rewinded to see if it played without dropouts but I will the next time it happens.

I've been assuming it's the feed from Comcast but from reading other responses here that does not seem to be where the fault lies. I also considered that the 2 TB drive I installed might be going bad but I really think it's something with the signal processing in the Roamio, maybe it's not handling DD properly, or that it has trouble with a less than perfect DD signal from the feed. Then again, it should be just passing that signal through to the decoding device which in my case would be the Denon AVR.


----------



## dhoward

No news regarding a solution as of yet. As I said earlier I have a Bolt, never had a Roamio, and this box has the same symptoms. Surprised there are not more posters. That is what it will take for Tivo to pay attention to this problem. Has anyone with a Roamio seen this problem in a period of time prior to maybe the last two updates. Maybe a recent update is causing the dropout.


----------



## kbmb

For me, my update is the same as on 10/31. I removed all additional attenuation and have had far fewer dropouts. I believe only 1 since this. This has my signal at 100% for most channels.

However, I still think it's a problem with the software because this only works with the Plus/Pro where the signal is amped so much. 

My Dad told me his Basic had dropouts on Quantico the other night.

Wish I could get Tivo to acknowledge it. And by Tivo I mean either Margret or top support, not front line support which just blame signals and RS corrected.

I have noticed that since I removed the attenuation and my signals went way up.....I have far fewer RS corrected errors. Most times I get errors are on cable stations, not network stations.

Let's hope Tivo says something at some point.

-Kevin


----------



## 2004raptor

keenanSR said:


> Any update on this? I thought it was just me until I came across this thread.
> 
> Comcast>Roamio Basic>Denon X4000
> .


I have an x3000 and experience the same thing. Well, I don't have HBO but it does this on most, if not, all channels. And I have noticed it does this near the end of shows often.

But, the few times I rewind it, the drop is not there so, I'm not sure what that means.


----------



## keenanSR

2004raptor said:


> I have an x3000 and experience the same thing. Well, I don't have HBO but it does this on most, if not, all channels. And I have noticed it does this near the end of shows often.
> 
> But, the few times I rewind it, the drop is not there so, I'm not sure what that means.


It probably means that either the TiVo or the AVR had trouble decoding the data. This could be because the data is questionable or corrupt to begin with and the error corrction failed the first time around but succeeded on the second time. As to why that might be, I have no idea.

If there is no dropout on the second time played then I don't see how it could have anything to do with the strength or quality of the inbound signal from the cableco or OTA transmitter, it has to be how the TiVo or the AVR(sound bar, etc.) is handling the audio data stream.


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> It probably means that either the TiVo or the AVR had trouble decoding the data. This could be because the data is questionable or corrupt to begin with and the error corrction failed the first time around but succeeded on the second time. As to why that might be, I have no idea.
> 
> If there is no dropout on the second time played then I don't see how it could have anything to do with the strength or quality of the inbound signal from the cableco or OTA transmitter, it has to be how the TiVo or the AVR(sound bar, etc.) is handling the audio data stream.


Since I get dropouts on a Mini (Roamio host) hooked straight to a TV, I'll give my AVR a pass.


----------



## 2004raptor

Just watched part of the CMA's and it was terrible. I think ABC is typically worse than any other channel but there's rarely anything we watch on abc. 

I don't watch tv in the room with h e mini very often but I will try to do so in the future to see if the problem persists..


----------



## kbmb

2004raptor said:


> Just watched part of the CMA's and it was terrible. I think ABC is typically worse than any other channel but there's rarely anything we watch on abc.
> 
> I don't watch tv in the room with h e mini very often but I will try to do so in the future to see if the problem persists..


For what it's worth, this whole thing started for me, and has been the worst with ABC.

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

Watched a few minutes of the Warriors game tonight on CSNBA and had a dropout that upon rewind/play was not there a second time. It was the only issue I had tonight.


----------



## dhoward

It seems more and more people are starting to take notice of this problem. I don't know why there are not more posts in the Bolt forum as I noticed it on my Bolt within the first couple of days. Maybe people who are getting it just think it is originating from the networks and not a Tivo issue. I think I answered my own question...


----------



## keenanSR

dhoward said:


> It seems more and more people are starting to take notice of this problem. I don't know why there are not more posts in the Bolt forum as I noticed it on my Bolt within the first couple of days. Maybe people who are getting it just think it is originating from the networks and not a Tivo issue. I think I answered my own question...


I'm sure they are, I know I was, I just figured it was a network or Comcast problem and just rolled with it as I don't have any control over either of those potential(presumed at the time) sources of the problem.


----------



## kbmb

Update on my situation......looks like my removing attenuators may not have fixed the issue. Wife watching Scandal (ABC) and getting dropouts.

Now the only other variable is I kept Scandal and a few others on WCVB Boston, whereas I switched most other ABC programs to WMUR Manchester. Since the switch to WMUR, haven't seen many dropouts....but I also removed the attenuation so not real sure if one or the other helped.

Starting to get really annoyed with this issue.....to the point I have to start seriously considering (yuck) looking into something like the X1 if TiVo can't solve this.

Note these new recordings are since this b-RC1 update. Wouldn't think that would fix it anyway.

TiVo moves at a snails pace. With a user install base as small as theirs, you would think they would be moving quicker.

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

Had another one last night on Colbert's Late Show, audio dropout and upon replay it was fine. It is without a doubt a problem with the TiVo.

I suppose it should be noted what equipment is in use when this happens on the off chance that TiVo might look at this thread.

Comcast>Roamio Basic(w/2TB HDD) outputting DD>Denon X4000.


----------



## kbmb

keenanSR said:


> Had another one last night on Colbert's Late Show, audio dropout and upon replay it was fine. It is without a doubt a problem with the TiVo.
> 
> I suppose it should be noted what equipment is in use when this happens upon the crazy chance that TiVo might look at this thread.
> 
> Comcast>Roamio Basic(w/2TB HDD) outputting DD>Denon X4000.


My setup:

Comcast -> Roamio Plus -> Yamaha AVR -> Samsung TV

Although in my testing I have bypassed the AVR and gone straight to the TV and have still seen the dropouts.

-Kevin


----------



## gkottner

Not sure if this will be helpful to anyone as I can't explain much what happened. Setup as follows -
Roamio basic (almost 2 years old)
Samsumg UHD tv 
All connections to Samsung Connect box via hdmi.
Samsung audio out set to PCM.
Use Samsung soundbar via their proprietary bluetooth output.
Roamio audio set to PCM.
Roamio video set to 1080p passthrough and 1080i only.

We watch 99.9% through the Roamio, including Netflix and Amazon. For many months, we've had audio dropouts. When it would get too bad, I'd reboot the Tivo and it would disappear for a couple days and then return.

On the 25th of October, I was watching football on NBC and the dropouts were absolutely horrible. Literally, one every 5-10 seconds. I was so fed up, I switched to antenna input on the TV, figuring I was caught up to real time anyways. I wasn't surprised at all that there were no dropouts with the Roamio out of the picture. Just before the 2 minute warning, I switched back to the Roamio so my wife wouldn't be confused the next day. What amazed me was that the dropouts disappeared. I watched TV (through the Roamio) for at least another hour, recordings and live TV. No dropouts. Since then I've had no more than a handful. Ones that could easily be explained by a blip in the signal.

Not being an audio engineer, I'm wondering if there was something "hung up" in the audio processor for the Tivo input that cleared out when I started using another input. I had never tried unplugging the Samsung connect box.

Just wanted to highlight my experience. Maybe it can help someone else.


----------



## niterider006

I posted a thread in the Bolt forum but I am having this issue too, not only with audio but Video as well when the audio is set to Dolby Digital. It took a few days to figure it out and wished I had seen this thread. Yes, My Video is slow to respond to my commands making navigating a headache. The audio would drop out for about 5 seconds after it starts playing.

Tivo gave me the run a around and insisted that it's comcast that needs to fix my SNR before I stummbled on to the audio setting.

Switching to PCM eliminated all the issues, but volume is noticeably lower now.

Link to prior thread:http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=533822

Setup; Bolt > Xbox One > Yamaha Receiver > Vizio TV

SNR: 36 db
RS Corrections: Both at 0
Signal: 92%

This needs to get fixed!


----------



## keenanSR

The audio problem does not appear to have anything to do with the cable company feed or the signal strength/quality of that feed. If it works fine upon replaying after the dropout then it isn't the cableco's problem, it's a TiVo problem.


----------



## kbmb

keenanSR said:


> The audio problem does not appear to have anything to do with the cable company feed or the signal strength/quality of that feed. If it works fine upon replaying after the dropout then it isn't the cableco's problem, it's a TiVo problem.


And I know things can always go bad....but....I had this Roamio Plus connected to the same cable lines, same setup for over a year after I first got it with no dropouts. My line from the road is also relatively new.

-Kevin


----------



## kbmb

niterider006 said:


> Tivo gave me the run a around and insisted that it's comcast that needs to fix my SNR before I stummbled on to the audio setting.


I don't wish Tivo support on my worst enemies 

You could call Tivo support and say you have the power cord in your hands, unplugged from the Tivo and you are wondering why it doesn't work.....and they'd still blame the signal 

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> And I know things can always go bad....but....I had this Roamio Plus connected to the same cable lines, same setup for over a year after I first got it with no dropouts. My line from the road is also relatively new.
> 
> -Kevin


Yes, I think that we are very unlikely to get a solution to this as TiVo has already moved on to their next generation box, the Bolt. I can't see them spending much time at all to fix it, especially as it doesn't seem to bother many people. That is to say, I think it does happen to them, they just haven't spent much time trying to understand why it's happening, rather they just figure it's the feed(I know I did) and move on.


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> I don't wish Tivo support on my worst enemies
> 
> You could call Tivo support and say you have the power cord in your hands, unplugged from the Tivo and you are wondering why it doesn't work.....and they'd still blame the signal
> 
> -Kevin


Exactly, the incoming signal seems to be their go-to anytime something is wrong. 

It's something that was introduced in an update. The fact that it plays fine on the second playing means it is not a problem with the feed and it is not a problem with the HDD, it's a problem with how the TiVo is handling/processing the audio signal.


----------



## kbmb

keenanSR said:


> Yes, I think that we are very unlikely to get a solution to this as TiVo has already moved on to their next generation box, the Bolt. I can't see them spending much time at all to fix it, especially as it doesn't seem to bother many people. That is to say, I think it does happen to them, they just haven't spent much time trying to understand why it's happening, rather they just figure it's the feed(I know I did) and move on.


Other than at least one person has reported it does this on the Bolt as well. I think it's some audio coding core to the software on Roamio and Bolt.

-Kevin



keenanSR said:


> Exactly, the incoming signal seems to be their go-to anytime something is wrong.
> 
> It's something that was introduced in an update. The fact that it plays fine on the second playing means it is not a problem with the feed and it is not a problem with the HDD, it's a problem with how the TiVo is handling/processing the audio signal.


With the way they blame signal....I'm surprised the box didn't have a big warning on it saying: TiVo requires a perfect signal to work correctly. 

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> Other than at least one person has reported it does this on the Bolt as well. I think it's some audio coding core to the software on Roamio and Bolt.
> 
> -Kevin
> 
> With the way they blame signal....I'm surprised the box didn't have a big warning on it saying: TiVo requires a perfect signal to work correctly.
> 
> -Kevin


That's true, I had forgotten it happens on the Bolt as well. I agree that it's likely some buggy code, a buffer overflow, some leaky memory, I don't know, I'm not a software engineer, all I know is when stuff like this happens it seems as if 99% of the time it's the software/firmware that runs on the machine and not the hardware or incoming signal. It's the part(software/firmware) that humans play/tinker with that ends up being the culprit.


----------



## niterider006

keenanSR said:


> Yes, I think that we are very unlikely to get a solution to this as TiVo has already moved on to their next generation box, the Bolt. I can't see them spending much time at all to fix it, especially as it doesn't seem to bother many people. That is to say, I think it does happen to them, they just haven't spent much time trying to understand why it's happening, rather they just figure it's the feed(I know I did) and move on.


The problem is on the Bolt too so this issue will still be at the forefront. After talking with support to let them know my conclusions, they said to open a case in your account online. They said that's how you can get the software engineers attention if enough people report it.

Do it people!

Log in to: https://www.tivo.com/tivo-mma/login/show.do
CLick on 'My Support' and open a case.


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## kbmb

niterider006 said:


> The problem is on the Bolt too so this issue will still be at the forefront. After talking with support to let them know my conclusions, they said to open a case in your account online. They said that's how you can get the software engineers attention if enough people report it.
> 
> Do it people!
> 
> Log in to: https://www.tivo.com/tivo-mma/login/show.do
> CLick on 'My Support' and open a case.


When I click on My Support I only see a "Email a question" link. Is that what you did?

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> That's true, I had forgotten it happens on the Bolt as well. I agree that it's likely some buggy code, a buffer overflow, some leaky memory, I don't know, I'm not a software engineer, all I know is when stuff like this happens it seems as if 99% of the time it's the software/firmware that runs on the machine and not the hardware or incoming signal. It's the part(software/firmware) that humans play/tinker with that ends up being the culprit.


I wish it was software since that can be fixed cheaply. But, and maybe this is the old hardware person inside me talking, I think the Roamio and Bolt have an issue with a part (perhaps programmed wrong), and that part is running at the edge of its specs. I have some cable noise, visible on the screen and sometimes captured to the HDD. But too often the audio issue, when no video issue, is only during the initial viewing. If it was truly bad data from my feed, I should be able to rewind and it will happen again. I can replay the video problems from my feed, usually on DD 5.1 content, but I never hear any dropouts on my Premieres. Since the last Mini upgrade I can hear audio dropouts on the Mini too. My speculation: if it was cheap to fix TiVo would do it. If it costs too much, we live with it. Lucky for me, the dropouts are few and short. I can live with them. I don't have a viable alternative.


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## niterider006

If that's the case. I'll just return mine. I'm still inside the 45 day return window from Bestbuy. It's a shame too, I've had a tivo for 9 years now.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I wish it was software since that can be fixed cheaply. But, and maybe this is the old hardware person inside me talking, I think the Roamio and Bolt have an issue with a part (perhaps programmed wrong), and that part is running at the edge of its specs. I have some cable noise, visible on the screen and sometimes captured to the HDD. But too often the audio issue, when no video issue, is only during the initial viewing. If it was truly bad data from my feed, I should be able to rewind and it will happen again. I can replay the video problems from my feed, usually on DD 5.1 content, but I never hear any dropouts on my Premieres. Since the last Mini upgrade I can hear audio dropouts on the Mini too. My speculation: if it was cheap to fix TiVo would do it. If it costs too much, we live with it. Lucky for me, the dropouts are few and short. I can live with them. I don't have a viable alternative.


Only issue with this is.....I never had dropouts for over a year after I bought my Roamio Plus......bought it in 2013 and it wasn't until late 2014 that I had any dropouts.

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Only issue with this is.....I never had dropouts for over a year after I bought my Roamio Plus......bought it in 2013 and it wasn't until late 2014 that I had any dropouts.
> 
> -Kevin


I wish I had all the answers. Or that I was always right. I'll wait to see when (if) TiVo makes any comment. This problem doesn't seem to be going away by itself.

That timeline is close to when I bought my Roamio. I was using two Premieres until then. One is still used every day, one is just a file storage unit.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I wish it was software since that can be fixed cheaply. But, and maybe this is the old hardware person inside me talking, I think the Roamio and Bolt have an issue with a part (perhaps programmed wrong), and that part is running at the edge of its specs. I have some cable noise, visible on the screen and sometimes captured to the HDD. But too often the audio issue, when no video issue, is only during the initial viewing. If it was truly bad data from my feed, I should be able to rewind and it will happen again. I can replay the video problems from my feed, usually on DD 5.1 content, but I never hear any dropouts on my Premieres. Since the last Mini upgrade I can hear audio dropouts on the Mini too. My speculation: if it was cheap to fix TiVo would do it. If it costs too much, we live with it. Lucky for me, the dropouts are few and short. I can live with them. I don't have a viable alternative.





kbmb said:


> Only issue with this is.....I never had dropouts for over a year after I bought my Roamio Plus......bought it in 2013 and it wasn't until late 2014 that I had any dropouts.
> 
> -Kevin


It's still possible that it's a hardware issue. A chip could have been flashed or reprogrammed during an update and that's what has caused the problem. That's my belief anyway, that some part of the audio processing hardware or the part of the main CPU handling audio has been altered from what it was before, who knows why, and that's what has caused this problem. It could have been an update handed down from Dolby(a more recent DD+ iteration for example), there are a lot of possibilities.


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## samccfl99

kbmb said:


> When I click on My Support I only see a "Email a question" link. Is that what you did?
> 
> -Kevin


It is best to call tech support. The email people are truly Idiots. I KNOW!

As far as audio dropouts, mostly it is when you go in and out of Tivo Central. They will never fix it. I wonder what The Bolt does (never going to get one)?


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## TiVoMargret

If you are experiencing regular audio dropouts, the next time it happens, please enter: 7 7 7 CLEAR and then 9 1 1 CLEAR
and then press REPLAY and note whether the audio dropout happens again, or not.

Then send me email ([email protected]) with the subject: "Roamio Audio Dropouts" and include the following information:

- your TSN
- your cable operator (or tell me if you use antenna)
- your nearest big city
- the date/time you heard the dropout
- the channel of the live or recorded show (channel number and network)
- whether it dropped out again after you played it a second time, using REPLAY


You can also "bundle up" and send me a report that includes multiple dropouts reported over the course of an evening of TV viewing.

We'll take a look at these reports and see what we can figure out.

-- Margret


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## JoeKustra

Excuse my ignorance, which button is REPLAY?


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> Excuse my ignorance, which button is REPLAY?


I believe she means the 8 second back button:










-Kevin


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## kbmb

TiVoMargret said:


> If you are experiencing regular audio dropouts, the next time it happens, please enter: 7 7 7 CLEAR and then 9 1 1 CLEAR
> and then press REPLAY and note whether the audio dropout happens again, or not.
> 
> Then send me email ([email protected]) with the subject: "Roamio Audio Dropouts" and include the following information:
> 
> - your TSN
> - your cable operator (or tell me if you use antenna)
> - your nearest big city
> - the date/time you heard the dropout
> - the channel of the live or recorded show (channel number and network)
> - whether it dropped out again after you played it a second time, using REPLAY
> 
> You can also "bundle up" and send me a report that includes multiple dropouts reported over the course of an evening of TV viewing.
> 
> We'll take a look at these reports and see what we can figure out.
> 
> -- Margret


Margret,

Thank you for the post. A couple of technical questions (and if anyone else has the answer):

- When we press the 7 7 7 Clear and then 9 1 1 Clear - can we be paused? Or does the recording need to be playing?

- I know in the past after we press these key combos we used to have to make 2 service connections. Do we have to do that here? Or will these just mark the logs and you'll get them the next time the box connects?

Thanks again for looking into this.

-Kevin


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## samccfl99

kbmb said:


> Margret,
> 
> Thank you for the post.


Too bad she can't/won't make them fix the audio dropout going in and out of Tivo Central. 3 to 4 seconds on a recording you are watching and 7 to 13 seconds when in a live buffer. Of course this is a HDMI sync delay, but it would never have to happen if THEY DID NOT DROP THE AUDIO IN THE FIRST PLACE. FOR YEARS THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON. I wonder if the Bolt has this problem? I would not think otherwise unless a miracle has occurred.

*As far as audio dropouts, I am on comcast and DO get them on Music Choice and THAT is definitely NOT the Tivo...*


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## JoeKustra

Just sent my first email. I'm watching CBS live sports. Seems to be a good stress test.


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## 2004raptor

JoeKustra said:


> Just sent my first email. I'm watching CBS live sports. Seems to be a good stress test.


Alabama game? I'm watching it too and just heard a quick dropout. Can't recall at what part though.


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## keenanSR

I'm hearing them on that game too. And I must be doing something wrong with the key sequence, I always end up on a music channel after all the buttons have been pressed.


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## 2004raptor

I've only heard the one drop on CBS during the game. 

It would be interesting if the drops occur at the exact same point during a broadcast. 

I can't do the recommended key sequence Margret suggested because my son is watching the game.


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## JoeKustra

2004raptor said:


> I've only heard the one drop on CBS during the game.
> 
> It would be interesting if the drops occur at the exact same point during a broadcast.
> 
> I can't do the recommended key sequence Margret suggested because my son is watching the game.


The sequence is not destructive. I also think doing it twice is not productive.

Honestly, the TSN, the time, channel/network and its non-appearance with a rewind is what's important.

I find quite a few video streaking issues during the watching of my recordings. Most have no audio issues (mostly). My cable feed needs some work on CBS and MSNBC.


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## JoeKustra

2004raptor said:


> Alabama game? I'm watching it too and just heard a quick dropout. Can't recall at what part though.


That's correct. Good part of live football is the background noise. When it gets quiet it's hard to miss.


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## 2004raptor

Just had one at about 8:30 in the second.


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## niterider006

TiVoMargret said:


> If you are experiencing regular audio dropouts, the next time it happens, please enter: 7 7 7 CLEAR and then 9 1 1 CLEAR
> and then press REPLAY and note whether the audio dropout happens again, or not.
> 
> Then send me email ([email protected]) with the subject: "Roamio Audio Dropouts" and include the following information:
> 
> - your TSN
> - your cable operator (or tell me if you use antenna)
> - your nearest big city
> - the date/time you heard the dropout
> - the channel of the live or recorded show (channel number and network)
> - whether it dropped out again after you played it a second time, using REPLAY
> 
> You can also "bundle up" and send me a report that includes multiple dropouts reported over the course of an evening of TV viewing.
> 
> We'll take a look at these reports and see what we can figure out.
> 
> -- Margret


Thanks Margaret, but please note that this problem is with Bolts too and similarly affects video output when Dolby Digital is set.


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## JoeKustra

Funny one: I was watching MSNBC this morning and there was a captured video of an ABC commentator. While the ABC person was speaking there was an audio dropout. So I rewound and the dropout was still there. Should I report? Could it be a problem with the ABC content that was passed on by MSNBC?

I didn't report it. I have reported four so far, mostly because I watch recordings on weekends. During that viewing, from major broadcast networks, I had many video streaks and noise, but not a single audio dropout. I then started to watch the football games on Fox, CBS and NBC. All had audio dropouts and all were reported. BTW, if you're slow like me, you can do the rewind then the two capture sequences. I never had a repeatable audio dropout.

My VCM Connections are all using 204.176.49.116 as the connection address.


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## lessd

I find that the premium channels have the most audio dropouts, Homeland was bad last night, I just used the close captions so I would know what was being said, sometime replaying the dropout part would work, sometime not. I hope this gets solved soon.


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## kbmb

lessd said:


> I find that the premium channels have the most audio dropouts, Homeland was bad last night, I just used the close captions so I would know what was being said, sometime replaying the dropout part would work, sometime not. I hope this gets solved soon.


I also notice for me that premium or cable channels tend to have the most RS errors compared to my local broadcast channels. No idea if this plays into it. But since I started testing things, I turned off suggestions so I can have tuners stick. I will put 4 tuners on broadcast networks, 1 on a cable channel and 1 on a premium channel. At the end of the day, the cable and premium channels will have a lot more errors (both uncorrected and corrected) than the broadcast channels.

Although after saying this, I realize that this all started from ABC shows 

Who knows......just hoping it's something TiVo did in a SU that can be fixed.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> I also notice for me that premium or cable channels tend to have the most RS errors compared to my local broadcast channels. No idea if this plays into it. But since I started testing things, I turned off suggestions so I can have tuners stick. I will put 4 tuners on broadcast networks, 1 on a cable channel and 1 on a premium channel. At the end of the day, the cable and premium channels will have a lot more errors (both uncorrected and corrected) than the broadcast channels.
> 
> Although after saying this, I realize that this all started from ABC shows
> 
> Who knows......just hoping it's something TiVo did in a SU that can be fixed.
> 
> -Kevin


You're lucky. My basic Roamio doesn't count RS Corrected errors. I found live sports to be stressing also.


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> You're lucky. My basic Roamio doesn't count RS Corrected errors.


Neither does mine (as we tested). Our main TiVo is the Plus and that's what I have been testing on the most.

-Kevin


----------



## Jed1

lessd said:


> I find that the premium channels have the most audio dropouts, Homeland was bad last night, I just used the close captions so I would know what was being said, sometime replaying the dropout part would work, sometime not. I hope this gets solved soon.


I watched Homeland live last night on Showtime HD and had no drop outs. I was using my A/V receiver also.
I had a video stutter/audio dropout while watching a recording of The Affair and when I did a replay on that section it did not do it so it must have been the TiVo doing that.
I just started getting this stuttering issue in past few weeks.


----------



## JoeKustra

Jed1 said:


> I watched Homeland live last night on Showtime HD and had no drop outs. I was using my A/V receiver also.
> I had a video stutter/audio dropout while watching a recording of The Affair and when I did a replay on that section it did not do it so it must have been the TiVo doing that.
> I just started getting this stuttering issue in past few weeks.


Perhaps we have a problem. My video on the networks is having a lot of streaking (no loss of audio) recently. Those audio dropouts have not happened on recordings, only during normal watching. I'm getting a few today. I spend most of the weekend watching recordings. I'm counting thousands of errors on my Premieres also.


----------



## Jed1

JoeKustra said:


> Perhaps we have a problem. My video on the networks is having a lot of streaking (no loss of audio) recently. Those audio dropouts have not happened on recordings, only during normal watching. I'm getting a few today. I spend most of the weekend watching recordings. I'm counting thousands of errors on my Premieres also.


I am seeing the tiling a lot on WYOU HD again. I record a lot of shows on that channel and I see the streaks of tiling on all the shows. I may have caught it on MSNBC also.
These are the CBS HD programs I see it on.
Madam Secretary
The Good Wife
NCIC
NCIS NO
Limitless
Big Bang Theory

I am thinking this is coming from the source as I have no corrected or uncorrected errors. My cable signals are text book quality here. If I remember correctly I may have seen this on their test box I had here for the TiVo black screen issue. I would have to get it back to find out for sure.
If that DTA you have is the HD version you can try that as you can get the broadcast HD channels on those if you use the HDMI port. If you see the problem on that then it is an issue from the source to the head end.


----------



## lessd

Jed1 said:


> I watched Homeland live last night on Showtime HD and had no drop outs. I was using my A/V receiver also.
> I had a video stutter/audio dropout while watching a recording of The Affair and when I did a replay on that section it did not do it so it must have been the TiVo doing that.
> I just started getting this stuttering issue in past few weeks.


When you say live do you mean without recording Homeland first ? I going to watch The Affair tonight from my recording, I will see what happens.

Watched from Sho. *The Affair* last night from my recording, not one audio drop-out, Homeland from the same station was full of audio drop-outs.


----------



## Jed1

lessd said:


> When you say live do you mean without recording Homeland first ? I going to watch The Affair tonight from my recording, I will see what happens.


Correct I watched it live. I also did record the episode, so it was recording while I was watching it.


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## JoeKustra

If you get this, record The Late Show on CBS. We can compare apples to apples tomorrow.

My DTA is HD and connected to a TV I never watch. It's waiting for use (maybe) by my mother when she comes back for a week on 12/4 with my sister.

I have a Mini v2 and another Linksys WUMC710 that I'm going to try in her kitchen next door. That should be a good test for the WiFi.

Two emails for audio dropouts so far tonight. Several video issues but no audio problems at the same time (MSNBC).

Fox Business Network is in the clear (SD & HD) for tomorrow's debate. I don't care.


----------



## Jed1

JoeKustra said:


> If you get this, record The Late Show on CBS. We can compare apples to apples tomorrow.
> 
> My DTA is HD and connected to a TV I never watch. It's waiting for use (maybe) by my mother when she comes back for a week on 12/4 with my sister.
> 
> I have a Mini v2 and another Linksys WUMC710 that I'm going to try in her kitchen next door. That should be a good test for the WiFi.
> 
> Two emails for audio dropouts so far tonight. Several video issues but no audio problems at the same time (MSNBC).
> 
> Fox Business Network is in the clear (SD & HD) for tomorrow's debate. I don't care.


I will record the Late show. Try to see if you see the audio dropouts on the DTA as it does tune in 502 WYOU HD. If you get no drop outs on the DTA then it is strictly a TiVo decode issue.
I actually get FBN as I subscribe to that package to get Turner Classic Movies. I don't watch FBN as I don't want my IQ to be dropped from to much exposure to that nonsense.


----------



## JoeKustra

Jed1 said:


> I will record the Late show. Try to see if you see the audio dropouts on the DTA as it does tune in 502 WYOU HD. If you get no drop outs on the DTA then it is strictly a TiVo decode issue.
> I actually get FBN as I subscribe to that package to get Turner Classic Movies. I don't watch FBN as I don't want my IQ to be dropped from to much exposure to that nonsense.


Cool. I'll know this afternoon.

No political comments. You get attacked enough.


----------



## Jed1

JoeKustra said:


> Cool. I'll know this afternoon.
> 
> No political comments. You get attacked enough.


I did watch the Late Show last night and had no issues. I will be watching NCIS, NCIS NO, and Limitless tonight. If I see any issues I will note what happens and when it happens.


----------



## JoeKustra

Jed1 said:


> I did watch the Late Show last night and had no issues. I will be watching NCIS, NCIS NO, and Limitless tonight. If I see any issues I will note what happens and when it happens.


At time mark 24 min I had a slight video blip and complete audio loss. Video streaks at the 28, 38 and 47 minute marks. Small, but no audio interruptions after the first one which was long enough to make my LEDs flicker. Yeah, I'll be recording those three also. My Premiere counted 408 RS Corrected since yesterday afternoon when I did a guided setup twice. When I use 17931 I see Frackville & the prison. With 17921 I see Bloomsburg, Ashland and Shamokin. It used to ask about a specific channel. Now it has the whole lineup displayed.


----------



## Jed1

JoeKustra said:


> At time mark 24 min I had a slight video blip and complete audio loss. Video streaks at the 28, 38 and 47 minute marks. Small, but no audio interruptions after the first one which was long enough to make my LEDs flicker. Yeah, I'll be recording those three also. My Premiere counted 408 RS Corrected since yesterday afternoon when I did a guided setup twice. When I use 17931 I see Frackville & the prison. With 17921 I see Bloomsburg, Ashland and Shamokin. It used to ask about a specific channel. Now it has the whole lineup displayed.


I had the slight blip and audio drop at the 24 minute mark. I missed it live last night as I may have been coming in from the kitchen as it occurred right after a commercial break. I have zero for the corrected and uncorrected errors.
I had no other issues at the times you mentioned.
I am going to use my A/V receiver tonight as it is easier to hear the drop outs if they are slight. This will trip the relay in the receiver and I will hear the click.
I was wondering if you watched the DTA to see if that has the same issue? Maybe you can record the shows on the Roamio and Premiere and watch live on the DTA.
Those lineup changes coincide with what is on Zap2It. I haven't gone through guided setup since I got my replacement TiVo in May.


----------



## JoeKustra

Jed1 said:


> I had the slight blip and audio drop at the 24 minute mark. I missed it live last night as I may have been coming in from the kitchen as it occurred right after a commercial break. I have zero for the corrected and uncorrected errors.
> I had no other issues at the times you mentioned.
> I am going to use my A/V receiver tonight as it is easier to hear the drop outs if they are slight. This will trip the relay in the receiver and I will hear the click.
> I was wondering if you watched the DTA to see if that has the same issue? Maybe you can record the shows on the Roamio and Premiere and watch live on the DTA.
> Those lineup changes coincide with what is on Zap2It. I haven't gone through guided setup since I got my replacement TiVo in May.


Watching the DTA is not something I can do easily, but I'll try. You were right about the first blip on coming back from a commercial. I should have mentioned that. It was the only dropout that triggered my AVR's LEDs. Actually, it was the only audio dropout during the hour.

I always record prime time and watch during the weekend. And tonight is the big party!


----------



## Jed1

JoeKustra said:


> Watching the DTA is not something I can do easily, but I'll try. You were right about the first blip on coming back from a commercial. I should have mentioned that. It was the only dropout that triggered my AVR's LEDs. Actually, it was the only audio dropout during the hour.
> 
> I always record prime time and watch during the weekend. And tonight is the big party!


I watched three CBS programs live here is the report. I also recorded these shows on the other TiVo.
WYOU HD 502
RF channel 17 141Mhz program 1
Signal 90%
SNR 36dB
RS corrected errors 0
RS uncorrected errors 0

NCIS:
8:19PM audio dropout
8:26PM small strip of tiling
8:36PM audio dropout
8:37PM small strip of tiling
8:41PM video stutters
8:54PM audio dropout

NCIS NO:
9:04PM small strip of tiling
9:13PM small strip of tiling
9:23PM small strip of tiling
9:27PM audio dropout and small strip of tiling
9:41PM audio dropout and small strip of tiling
9:50PM small strip of tiling
9:55PM small strip of tiling

Limitless:
10:06PM audio dropout
10:23PM audio dropout
10:37PM small strip of tiling
10:53PM audio dropout and small strip of tiling


----------



## JoeKustra

lessd said:


> When you say live do you mean without recording Homeland first ? I going to watch The Affair tonight from my recording, I will see what happens.
> 
> Watched from Sho. *The Affair* last night from my recording, not one audio drop-out, Homeland from the same station was full of audio drop-outs.


May I ask if you are using an AVR?. I connected the HDMI to my TV and I am using the optical to feed my AVR. The dropouts are down 90%. My TV passes DD 5.1 if that counts.

Now this could mean it's my AVR. Or it could mean it's any AVR. I'm using a Yamaha RX-V867. I also used this AVR for two years with my Premiere and never had any problems.

So here's my question: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=534019


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## gespears

JoeKustra said:


> I'm using a Yamaha RX-V867. I also used this AVR for two years with my Premiere and never had any problems.


I have a Roamio Pro with HDMI going through my Yamaha to my TV and have no dropouts other than when I get some tiling or whatever. Maybe a couple of times a week. But never a dropout without a video issue to go along with it.


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## JoeKustra

gespears said:


> I have a Roamio Pro with HDMI going through my Yamaha to my TV and have no dropouts other than when I get some tiling or whatever. Maybe a couple of times a week. But never a dropout without a video issue to go along with it.


It does seem to be much less with the Pro or Plus. Even with video streaks the audio hold steady most of the time, and those are recorded too since they are saved in the video buffer.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> It does seem to be much less with the Pro or Plus. Even with video streaks the audio hold steady most of the time, and those are recorded too since they are saved in the video buffer.


My issue is with a Plus going through a Yamaha receiver. Although I proved it had nothing to do with the receiver by removing it and going straight to the TV and still getting the issues.

Generally all my audio dropout have NO video artifacts.

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> My issue is with a Plus going through a Yamaha receiver. Although I proved it had nothing to do with the receiver by removing it and going straight to the TV and still getting the issues.
> 
> Generally all my audio dropout have NO video artifacts.
> 
> -Kevin


That was my experience too. Do you have the ability to send the Roamio's optical to your AVR? It passes DD 5.1 but not DD+ from Amazon. But I never have audio dropouts from any recorded or streaming content. My AVR has two optical and one coax inputs I can assign to HDMI inputs. Even my usual HDMI dropouts have gone down a lot recently. Down but not gone.


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## slowbiscuit

CBS is the only channel I've seen this on, IIRC.


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## JoeKustra

slowbiscuit said:


> CBS is the only channel I've seen this on, IIRC.


I agree that CBS is pretty bad, but I mostly record CBS. I do most real time watching on TWC and MSNBC.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> That was my experience too. Do you have the ability to send the Roamio's optical to your AVR? It passes DD 5.1 but not DD+ from Amazon. But I never have audio dropouts from any recorded or streaming content. My AVR has two optical and one coax inputs I can assign to HDMI inputs. Even my usual HDMI dropouts have gone down a lot recently. Down but not gone.


I'll have to look at my setup. I know right now I have everything with HDMI through the receiver.

I don't think I have ever seen this on anything streaming. All our dropouts are from recordings since we don't ever watch live.

The first email I submitted to Margret was from a recording of Scandal where I could sit there and hear 2 dropouts - then rewind and hear none - rewind again and hear 4 dropouts - rewind again and hear the original 2. None of these were accompanied by any video distortion.

For us ABC is the main culprit - although we have seen it on CBS and NBC.

Since removing all my attenuation, we see it less. But I did do a test where I switched half our shows from ABC Boston to ABC Manchester. All the switched shows had the dropouts basically go away. My wifes shows on ABC Boston did not. I have since switched her to ABC Manchester and we'll see this week if they go away.

To me that's not really a fix - but a crappy workaround to a problem with Tivo.

-Kevin


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## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> My issue is with a Plus going through a Yamaha receiver. Although I proved it had nothing to do with the receiver by removing it and going straight to the TV and still getting the issues.
> 
> Generally all my audio dropout have NO video artifacts.
> 
> -Kevin


Same here, I have yet to notice any video issues when I have a dropout, it's always audio only.


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## NashGuy

keenanSR said:


> Same here, I have yet to notice any video issues when I have a dropout, it's always audio only.


Same here, audio dropouts only. (If I see a video problem, it's always an issue with my antenna reception and can be repeated on replay. But I often have audio dropouts that cannot be repeated on replay.)

I have my TiVo connected to my TV via HDMI and to my Pioneer receiver via optical audio (Toslink).


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## keenanSR

A response from a TiVo rep,

https://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=11272364#e11272364


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## JoeKustra

If it makes anyone feel better, I can attest that TiVo is working on this problem. But don't put me in the optimist column. This doesn't feel like a firmware problem. I never have a dropout on my Premiere.


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## TiVoSupport_Sarah

tivocustomers, can you please provide me a private message with your TiVo service number so that we can investigate this issue?


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## Pilot20

I have had a Tivo Basic for a little over a year now. It replaced an S3 that was still going strong, but I wanted more tuners to avoid recording conflicts.

I've been experiencing the same audio dropout issues described in this thread. I also have been having a lot of video stuttering and streaking as well.

My Tivo is connected via HDMI to my Onkyo AVR and then to my TV. All other components connected to my AVR do not exhibit any of these issues.

I called TWC and they came out and ran new cable from the street to the service entrance at the house. That boosted the signal a bit, but still did not fix the problem. TWC said that all signal levels etc. were okay. 

I also called Tivo support and they think it might be a Tuning Adapter issue.

I've checked all connections, changed cables and everything else that I can think of, and still I'm having audio/video issues.

Last night, I watched the Packers/Bears game and the problem was really bad. 

I noticed that when playing back a recorded program, and I experience audio/video problems, I can't reproduce the issue when I back up and replay at the same place on the recording, which indicates to me that it is a problem with the Tivo. Tivo offered to replace the Tivo for a fee (I'm beyond the warranty period), but then I would loose all recordings on the hard drive. I can't copy the recordings over to another Tivo because TWC has almost everything copy protected.

Then, I just happened to find this thread, and it looks like I'm not the only one having similar issues.

Hopefully, Tivo can get this problem fixed soon.

Regards...


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## JoeKustra

Pilot20 said:


> I have had a Tivo Basic for a little over a year now. It replaced an S3 that was still going strong, but I wanted more tuners to avoid recording conflicts.
> 
> I've been experiencing the same audio dropout issues described in this thread. I also have been having a lot of video stuttering and streaking as well.
> 
> Then, I just happened to find this thread, and it looks like I'm not the only one having similar issues.
> 
> Hopefully, Tivo can get this problem fixed soon.
> 
> Regards...


I hope so also. Question: does your basic Roamio count RS Corrected errors?


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## HerronScott

Pilot20 said:


> I noticed that when playing back a recorded program, and I experience audio/video problems, I can't reproduce the issue when I back up and replay at the same place on the recording, which indicates to me that it is a problem with the Tivo. Tivo offered to replace the Tivo for a fee (I'm beyond the warranty period), but then I would loose all recordings on the hard drive. I can't copy the recordings over to another Tivo because TWC has almost everything copy protected.


Since you are having audio *and* video issues, it sounds more likely that it's a feed/signal issue especially since it's saved in the recorded program and perhaps not related to the other audio-only issue reported here.

Scott


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## JoeKustra

HerronScott said:


> Since you are having audio *and* video issues, it sounds more likely that it's a feed/signal issue especially since it's saved in the recorded program and perhaps not related to the other audio-only issue reported here.
> 
> Scott


Yeah, I agree. I have some similar issues that happen on my channels above 560 and they are part of the content feed. I was just curious how many Roamio basic models don't have the ability to count RS Corrected and have a OOB SNR of over 300 dB.


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## JoeKustra

I just got a v2 Mini. I had two audio dropouts in an hour. It connects to a small HDTV via HDMI. I was using a v1. Next week I'll get the v1 back and see if it has dropouts. I only use the Mini for a few hours in the morning. BTW, The dropout was at least one second, longer than the Roamio.


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## Pilot20

HerronScott said:


> Since you are having audio *and* video issues, it sounds more likely that it's a feed/signal issue especially since it's saved in the recorded program and perhaps not related to the other audio-only issue reported here.
> 
> Scott


Thanks for the reply. However, the audio/video issues are *not* saved in the recordings. That's why I don't think it is a signal issue.

TWC is sending another tech Monday to check for any signal issues. They are also supposed to bring a new Tuning Adapter since Tivo support thinks that the TA may be the problem. I think that changing out the TA is just a shot in the dark, but I guess it's worth a try.

Another reason not to suspect the signal is that I have another Tivo S3 running in a different room, and there are no issues with it. Also, I have TWC phone and Internet and no issues with those either. I realize that the Roamio might be more sensitive to signal problems than other devices, but to date, all troubleshooting points to the Roamio itself.

TWC has checked the amp/splitter in the attic that feeds the rest of the house. They changed out the cable drop to the Roamio. They bypassed the amp to see if that made a difference. None of those changes helped.

The TWC tech says that the signal to the Roamio, as checked at the Raomio, is fine.

This is the 4th truck roll in the last 4 weeks, and I'm not even sure it's their problem since TWC techs say the signal is good, and the TIVO/Cablecard/TA diagnostics indicate the same.

I've had numerous phone calls with TWC Cable Card Services and Tivo Support. All calls have been helpful in attempting to determine the problem by running diagnostics on their end and having me run diagnostics on my end. So far, all diagnostics indicate that there are no signal issues.

For awhile, I thought that perhaps the Roamio hard drive was going bad. But since the recordings don't exhibit the dropouts at the same place in time, I don't think that the HD is the issue. I have a new, larger hard drive available just in case the original hard drive kicks the bucket.

As a last note, the dropouts are random and I get more dropouts on my locals than I do on other channels. Sometimes the dropouts are frequent, but on a different day, only occasional. According to TWC, my HD locals go through the Tuning Adapter the same as the SDV channels.

I've used Tivo powered DVRs since way back when DirecTV used Tivo. When I switched to TWC, I purchased my first Tivo S3, and soon after added another S3 for a different room. The only time I've had issue worse than these is when TWC went to SDV and I had to get a TA...but that's a long story for a different day.

Although these dropout issues aren't the "end of the world", it's somewhat baffling to be sure.

If changing out the TA makes a difference, I will post a follow-up.

Thanks...


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## Pilot20

JoeKustra said:


> I hope so also. Question: does your basic Roamio count RS Corrected errors?


Yes, my basic Roamio is always zero RS corrected, unless I unplug the coax from the Roamio and re-connect.


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## kbmb

Pilot20 said:


> Thanks for the reply. However, the audio/video issues are *not* saved in the recordings. That's why I don't think it is a signal issue.
> 
> TWC is sending another tech Monday to check for any signal issues. They are also supposed to bring a new Tuning Adapter since Tivo support thinks that the TA may be the problem. I think that changing out the TA is just a shot in the dark, but I guess it's worth a try.
> 
> Another reason not to suspect the signal is that I have another Tivo S3 running in a different room, and there are no issues with it. Also, I have TWC phone and Internet and no issues with those either. I realize that the Roamio might be more sensitive to signal problems than other devices, but to date, all troubleshooting points to the Roamio itself.
> 
> TWC has checked the amp/splitter in the attic that feeds the rest of the house. They changed out the cable drop to the Roamio. They bypassed the amp to see if that made a difference. None of those changes helped.
> 
> The TWC tech says that the signal to the Roamio, as checked at the Raomio, is fine.
> 
> This is the 4th truck roll in the last 4 weeks, and I'm not even sure it's their problem since TWC techs say the signal is good, and the TIVO/Cablecard/TA diagnostics indicate the same.
> 
> I've had numerous phone calls with TWC Cable Card Services and Tivo Support. All calls have been helpful in attempting to determine the problem by running diagnostics on their end and having me run diagnostics on my end. So far, all diagnostics indicate that there are no signal issues.
> 
> For awhile, I thought that perhaps the Roamio hard drive was going bad. But since the recordings don't exhibit the dropouts at the same place in time, I don't think that the HD is the issue. I have a new, larger hard drive available just in case the original hard drive kicks the bucket.
> 
> As a last note, the dropouts are random and I get more dropouts on my locals than I do on other channels. Sometimes the dropouts are frequent, but on a different day, only occasional. According to TWC, my HD locals go through the Tuning Adapter the same as the SDV channels.
> 
> I've used Tivo powered DVRs since way back when DirecTV used Tivo. When I switched to TWC, I purchased my first Tivo S3, and soon after added another S3 for a different room. The only time I've had issue worse than these is when TWC went to SDV and I had to get a TA...but that's a long story for a different day.
> 
> Although these dropout issues aren't the "end of the world", it's somewhat baffling to be sure.
> 
> If changing out the TA makes a difference, I will post a follow-up.
> 
> Thanks...


Good luck - but it's sounding more and more like a TiVo issue that TiVo support is having you jump through hoops for no reason.

Pretty sure at the top of each TiVo support checklist is a note that says:

Before doing anything.....say it's the customers fault and:
1) Blame Signal
2) Blame SNR
3) Blame TA



-Kevin


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## HerronScott

Pilot20 said:


> Thanks for the reply. However, the audio/video issues are *not* saved in the recordings. That's why I don't think it is a signal issue.


I obviously read your original post wrong so sorry (reading can instead of can't!)!

Scott


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## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> Good luck - but it's sounding more and more like a TiVo issue that TiVo support is having you jump through hoops for no reason.
> 
> Pretty sure at the top of each TiVo support checklist is a note that says:
> 
> Before doing anything.....say it's the customers fault and:
> 1) Blame Signal
> 2) Blame SNR
> 3) Blame TA
> 
> 
> 
> -Kevin


Yes, it is most definitely a TiVo problem that they don't understand yet and the first line CSRs are deflecting because they don't have the right answer and in fact, are extremely likely not to be even aware of the problem.

Since everything one views on a TiVo is from the hard drive, a recording, it stands to reason if the dropout doesn't happen when played back a second time it means it was never a dropout when initially recorded. This means that it's a problem with the TiVo audio decoding and/or processing.

I also think it happens a lot more than you would think judging by the limited number of complaints here, I think folks are just missing it or forgetting about it happening or don't really care that much about it to post a comment about it. In the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that big a deal, but that's not the point, it shouldn't be happening at all.


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## JoeKustra

Most TV shows have quiet periods, even though they are very short. But when watching a football game or a program with music the dropout can be very irritating.


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## dlfl

JoeKustra said:


> Yeah, I agree. I have some similar issues that happen on my channels above 560 and they are part of the content feed. I was just curious how many Roamio basic models don't have the ability to count RS Corrected and have a OOB SNR of over 300 dB.


Do you mean the RS Corrected count item isn't there or that the count is always zero? In over 3 months I can't recall a RS count (corrected or uncorrected) that was anything but zero on my Roamio basic. But I still get occasional video glitches with the amount varying with channel. I'm hoping the RS counters are actually working -- which implies the glitches are in the signal feed.

Given the absurd OOB SNR value, one does wonder if the RS counts can be trusted.

Non-zero counts were somewhat rare on my previous TiVo, a TiVo HD, except when on an antenna channel.


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## JoeKustra

dlfl said:


> Do you mean the RS Corrected count item isn't there or that the count is always zero? In over 3 months I can't recall a RS count (corrected or uncorrected) that was anything but zero on my Roamio basic. But I still get occasional video glitches with the amount varying with channel. I'm hoping the RS counters are actually working -- which implies the glitches are in the signal feed.
> 
> Given the absurd OOB SNR value, one does wonder if the RS counts can be trusted.
> 
> Non-zero counts were somewhat rare on my previous TiVo, a TiVo HD, except when on an antenna channel.


I have a Premiere and Roamio on the same line coming into my house. The only difference is that last three feet where the line splits. The Premiere counts RS Corrected and Uncorrected. It has an OOB SNR of 2db, which is that same as another Premiere on a different tap from outside.

If I go outside and pull the RG11 feeding my box, killing all signals, my modem and all three TiVo have RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors, numbering in the millions. The exception is the Roamio which has RS Corrected at zero. I had my drop fixed a few months ago and observed the same thing. Now I don't get many errors on my Premieres since my drop was fixed, but they are usually non-zero except if I restart the box (or change channels). The Roamio is more forgiving and seldom has RS Uncorrected unless I'm messing with the cables.

I think my diags are not to be trusted and another user on this forum has observed the same behavior. It will be interesting next week since I will be getting a new Roamio. I don't know the odds it will behave the same, but I hope not.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I think my diags are not to be trusted and another user on this forum has observed the same behavior. It will be interesting next week since I will be getting a new Roamio. I don't know the odds it will behave the same, but I hope not.


If you are getting another Basic, unless they made a hardware change, I'm guessing it'll be the same. I see the same behavior on mine (as we tested before), yours, and both my parents Basic's.

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> If you are getting another Basic, unless they made a hardware change, I'm guessing it'll be the same. I see the same behavior on mine (as we tested before), yours, and both my parents Basic's.
> 
> -Kevin


I know. I got the $400 special. But I can always hope that something changed.


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## dlfl

JoeKustra said:


> .....
> If I go outside and pull the RG11 feeding my box, killing all signals, my modem and all three TiVo have RS Corrected and Uncorrected errors, numbering in the millions. The exception is the Roamio which has RS Corrected at zero. ........


These results are puzzling. As I understand it, RS Corrected is a count of errors that were able to be corrected using the RS (Reed-Solomon) code in the signal. With no signal but noise (as when you disconnect the RG11) I don't see how any errors could be corrected. Thus it would be logical for RS Corrected to be zero. I suppose there is some small probability that the noise signal will accidentally have a valid RS correction. Are the uncorrected counts much larger than the corrected counts for the non-Roamio boxes?

Does the Roamio show any RS Uncorrected counts in that situation?


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## lessd

I seemed to solve my audio drop out problem by putting 11db of attenuation (a 7DB with a 3DB splitter) on the cable feeding my Roamio pro, the cable signal is now from 85% to 92% on the cable channels, and the MoCA is faster (from 85mb/s xfer to 97Mb/s xfer).


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## kbmb

lessd said:


> I seemed to solve my audio drop out problem by putting 11db of attenuation (a 7DB with a 3DB splitter) on the cable feeding my Roamio pro, the cable signal is now from 85% to 92% on the cable channels, and the MoCA is faster (from 85mb/s xfer to 97Mb/s xfer).


And I find the opposite - when I attenuated to get into Tivo's "good range", I got nothing but problems with audio dropouts. Removing the attenuation, and having the signal go back to 100 and SNR 41dB+ I've had fewer dropouts (not gone completely).

Never in my life have I had to deal with a piece of equipment that is so sensitive to the incoming signal. Mind you, this incoming signal has been deemed perfectly good by the cable company. But you know....Tivo must know better than my local cable guy 

-Kevin


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## JoeKustra

dlfl said:


> These results are puzzling. As I understand it, RS Corrected is a count of errors that were able to be corrected using the RS (Reed-Solomon) code in the signal. With no signal but noise (as when you disconnect the RG11) I don't see how any errors could be corrected. Thus it would be logical for RS Corrected to be zero. I suppose there is some small probability that the noise signal will accidentally have a valid RS correction. Are the uncorrected counts much larger than the corrected counts for the non-Roamio boxes?
> 
> Does the Roamio show any RS Uncorrected counts in that situation?


I wasn't clear. Everything counts RS Uncorrected. During an rf disconnect, the numbers get very high. The RS corrected get very high except for the basic Roamio which is always zero.


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## JoeKustra

lessd said:


> I seemed to solve my audio drop out problem by putting 11db of attenuation (a 7DB with a 3DB splitter) on the cable feeding my Roamio pro, the cable signal is now from 85% to 92% on the cable channels, and the MoCA is faster (from 85mb/s xfer to 97Mb/s xfer).


Without attenuation my cable signals are 87 to 92, SNR is 35 dB or 36 dB at all times for all channels on my Roamio. The signal levels go down to 75% on some channels on the Premieres yet their SNL stays about 36 dB.

Since my cable modem and three televisions also have signal diagnostics, I get similar numbers with everything.


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## kbmb

lessd said:


> I seemed to solve my audio drop out problem by putting 11db of attenuation (a 7DB with a 3DB splitter) on the cable feeding my Roamio pro, the cable signal is now from 85% to 92% on the cable channels, and the MoCA is faster (from 85mb/s xfer to 97Mb/s xfer).


Also to be clear, this if for my Roamio Plus. My Roamio Basic has signal levels in the 93-95% range. And because I've done more testing than I would have cared to - switching Roamios has the signal levels follow the box. The Plus is amping the signal, and I refuse to attenuate it like Tivo would want. I'm not taking a good signal, attenuating it, and then having the Tivo boost it back up. That's bassackwards logic to me! 

Hopefully you are lucky that it did solve the issue for you, because I don't have a lot of faith Tivo will fix it.

-Kevin


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## dlfl

JoeKustra said:


> I wasn't clear. Everything counts RS Uncorrected. During an rf disconnect, the numbers get very high. The RS corrected get very high except for the basic Roamio which is always zero.


I'm not sure what you can say about what the Roamio does when it has only noise as an input (during rf disconnect). The entire concept of RS correction has no application in that situation. All you can infer is the circuits in the Roamio work differently than those in the other TiVo's -- but not necessarily incorrectly. There can't be any actual true RS correction going on when only noise is input.

Still wondering: During rf disconnect, on the TiVo's that do have non-zero RS counts, are the corrected counts running much less than the uncorrected ones?

What would be meaningful to me is to know whether anyone is *ever* seeing any non-zero RS corrected counts on a Roamio basic. That would at least indicate the readout isn't just hardwired to zero.


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## JoeKustra

dlfl said:


> What would be meaningful to me is to know whether anyone is *ever* seeing any non-zero RS corrected counts on a Roamio basic. That would at least indicate the readout isn't just hardwired to zero.


This seems to indicate it does: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10713823#post10713823

Also, my 720p ION station, which is highly compressed (11 to 1) to have four subchannels, usually has dozens of errors on my Premieres. The Roamio seems to be more forgiving.


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## lessd

kbmb said:


> And I find the opposite - when I attenuated to get into Tivo's "good range", I got nothing but problems with audio dropouts. Removing the attenuation, and having the signal go back to 100 and SNR 41dB+ I've had fewer dropouts (not gone completely).
> 
> Never in my life have I had to deal with a piece of equipment that is so sensitive to the incoming signal. Mind you, this incoming signal has been deemed perfectly good by the cable company. But you know....Tivo must know better than my local cable guy
> 
> -Kevin


I don't like trial and error fixes without any understanding of what I am doing, so one night I had so many audio drop outs I had to turn the CC on, and at the end of that evening I added the splitters and the next few nights no audio dropouts, could be Comcast that fixed the problem or wherever, but I will leave things as they are.


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## dhoward

I was one of the first, and maybe only one, Bolt owners to post about this audio drop out problem. I notice more on ABC for some reason and now and then I get the video breaking up at the same moment the audio drops out. Not all the time but it seems like it is a new symptom. At this moment in time it is an annoyance that just might be getting worse. Was anyone seeing this audio problem before the Bolt was introduced? I was coming from a Premier to Bolt so I never saw it on that unit. My wife has the Roamio and that goes straight to the TV without a AVR in the path and she never mentions it. I do not think anyone is posting in the Bolt forum about this so unless I am the only one it must be so subtle no one is realizing it is the Tivo causing the problem.


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## kbmb

dhoward said:


> I was one of the first, and maybe only one, Bolt owners to post about this audio drop out problem. I notice more on ABC for some reason and now and then I get the video breaking up at the same moment the audio drops out. Not all the time but it seems like it is a new symptom. At this moment in time it is an annoyance that just might be getting worse. Was anyone seeing this audio problem before the Bolt was introduced? I was coming from a Premier to Bolt so I never saw it on that unit. My wife has the Roamio and that goes straight to the TV without a AVR in the path and she never mentions it.


Yes, been seeing the audio problem for over a year now on the Roamio. I first noticed it last TV season, mostly on ABC. I typically get NO video breakups, just the audio dropouts.

I first posted in 11/14 (no responses on this post)
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522838

Someone else posted on 12/14:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=523647

So it's been around for a while.

-Kevin


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## dhoward

Since I never saw it in the Premiere then it would seem it was introduced with the Roamio and continued on into the Bolt.


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## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Yes, been seeing the audio problem for over a year now on the Roamio. I first noticed it last TV season, mostly on ABC. I typically get NO video breakups, just the audio dropouts.
> 
> I first posted in 11/14 (no responses on this post)
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=522838
> 
> Someone else posted on 12/14:
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=523647
> 
> So it's been around for a while.
> 
> -Kevin


You're lucky. I get both video streaks and audio drops. But since a friend on the same feed also receives them at the same time we know it's our headend. But the video issue seems to be mostly on higher frequency channels. Lower frequency channels have an uneven quality. But it seems those that come via fiber seem much better than those that come by satellite.

None of this is related to the unrecorded (unrecordable?) audio dropouts.


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## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> You're lucky. I get both video streaks and audio drops. But since a friend on the same feed also receives them at the same time we know it's our headend. But the video issue seems to be mostly on higher frequency channels. Lower frequency channels have an uneven quality. But it seems those that come via fiber seem much better than those that come by satellite.
> 
> None of this is related to the unrecorded (unrecordable?) audio dropouts.


Yeah don't get me wrong - I get video/audio glitches, but those are clearly teh cable company, weather, etc. Those all get recorded and like you are unrelated to these audio dropouts.

The revelation on the audio dropouts for me came this year when I rewound and the dropout didn't occur or changed. That's what caused me to start this thread.

Fingers crossed this upcoming update fixes it.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Yeah don't get me wrong - I get video/audio glitches, but those are clearly teh cable company, weather, etc. Those all get recorded and like you are unrelated to these audio dropouts.
> 
> The revelation on the audio dropouts for me came this year when I rewound and the dropout didn't occur or changed. That's what caused me to start this thread.
> 
> Fingers crossed this upcoming update fixes it.
> 
> -Kevin


Fingers, toes, legs. I have a new basic Roamio from TiVo coming tomorrow. Good news: second opinion. Bad news: no Premiere with a cable card.


----------



## jmpage2

I've been having this problem off and on over the past 6-9 months but it was particularly bad when watching Blindspot tonight from an earlier recording. Rewinding the dropout didn't happen. My roamio plus is connected to a newer Denon AVR via HDMI.


----------



## MikeBear

My audio dropouts all vanished with the new firmware download. I'm happy about that...


----------



## JoeKustra

MikeBear said:


> My audio dropouts all vanished with the new firmware download. I'm happy about that...


While they may be fewer (no way to prove it) the dropouts are still on my Roamio and Mini. They are still not on my Premiere. Since there is a shorter delay when going to/from active video/audio from a menu perhaps it affected the dropouts?

Now that I think about, they are not shorter on my Mini, but it doesn't have RC14 yet either.


----------



## kbmb

MikeBear said:


> My audio dropouts all vanished with the new firmware download. I'm happy about that...


I believe we had at least 2 dropouts last night - although one had some video glitching so that was probably broadcast.

I also notice now from this post:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10719471#post10719471

There is a audio delay when coming out of fast forwarding/rewinding that I never had before. It's subtle but we noticed it right away in watching shows last night. When you press play from fast forwarding, there's a quick cutout of the audio.

-Kevin


----------



## MikeBear

I'm OTA only with a Roamio basic, and my audio dropouts are *gone*.

If you guys are cable, perhaps that's more the issue for your dropouts?


----------



## kannapiran1

I'm glad I found this thread. After 2 years of no problems, I've been having issues with dropouts the past few weeks with my roamio pro.

Just got off the phone with tech support who advised me to connect my TiVo directly to the tv, bypassing the avr


----------



## kbmb

MikeBear said:


> I'm OTA only with a Roamio basic, and my audio dropouts are *gone*.
> 
> If you guys are cable, perhaps that's more the issue for your dropouts?


Not when you can rewind and have the dropouts no appear (or change). It's confirmed there is an issue and they are working on it and we are pretty sure nothing made it in this release.



kannapiran1 said:


> I'm glad I found this thread. After 2 years of no problems, I've been having issues with dropouts the past few weeks with my roamio pro.
> 
> Just got off the phone with tech support who advised me to connect my TiVo directly to the tv, bypassing the avr


Please don't bother with Tivo support - they won't help.

Look in this thread to either Margret's email post or TiVoSupport_Sarah's post.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

I find these dropouts have been drastically reduced since the update. The change made to reduce the audio lag when entering or exiting a menu may have affected this problem? They are not gone, but I only get two or three a day.


----------



## keenanSR

I hadn't really noticed any for a few days but then had a couple last night. The problem is definitely still there.


----------



## manhole

In addition to the audio drop outs occurring on my cable (Comcast) programs I'm now getting them on Netflix watched through the TiVo. I was watching Arrow last night on Netflix and kept getting dropouts. Anyone else notice this recently?


----------



## dhoward

Actually, for me, since the latest update on my Bolt the dropouts seem to have disappeared.


----------



## 2004raptor

dhoward said:


> Actually, for me, since the latest update on my Bolt the dropouts seem to have disappeared.


I was just saying the same thing to my wife a night or two ago. I can't remember the last time I had an audio drop. BTW, I have a roamio, not bolt.


----------



## JoeKustra

2004raptor said:


> I was just saying the same thing to my wife a night or two ago. I can't remember the last time I had an audio drop. BTW, I have a roamio, not bolt.


The dropouts have been reduced but they still happen. My speculation is the change made to get audio faster when moving to and from live video has reduced the dropouts with only the "longer" ones still audible.

But there has been no change on the Mini.


----------



## keenanSR

I had a couple while watching the final episode of Da Vinci's Demons last night but it occurred within a minute period and I didn't rewind to check if it was the source. I haven't really been watching much TV at all the past few weeks. I'll probably report back some more starting next week when regular programming starts up again.

Hopefully, I'll be posting that I haven't had any dropouts!


----------



## jmpage2

The newest update appears to have resolved or at least greatly improved the dropout problem for me on my Roamio.


----------



## dhoward

Yes, I spoke to soon. I noticed several on the Dr. Who Christmas show. Oh well it has at least diminished in frequency for whatever reason. Then again it is possible that the lack of drop outs maybe be more related to so many shows on holiday over the Christmas and New Years weeks and it will get more noticeable when more recordings are made starting next week.


----------



## NoNose

manhole said:


> In addition to the audio drop outs occurring on my cable (Comcast) programs I'm now getting them on Netflix watched through the TiVo. I was watching Arrow last night on Netflix and kept getting dropouts. Anyone else notice this recently?


Yep, Netflix is getting a lot of dropouts, but not at all for OTA channels. I had a Bolt until my Roamio OTA arrived. I never had any issues, and yes, it was on 20.5.6.


----------



## kbmb

Figured with all the blue circle talk, why not complain about the audio dropouts again. Last weeks Blacklist for me had a ton of dropouts. Yet again, rewinding and they go away. 

Does the X1 have this many problems 

-Kevin


----------



## shoman1994

I only get the audio drop outs with Netflix... nothing happens to the video.

On Hulu Plus what happens is more like someone pressed pause and play real fast.... so both audio and video are effected.


----------



## keenanSR

I had an audio dropout tonight while watching The Expanse. It was the only show I watched tonight. This problem TiVo has with these dropouts is really getting old, it's to the point where I may just sell the box and go with whatever Comcast has (X1?). I'm tired of it, and TiVo seems to have no clue on what the problem is.


----------



## 2004raptor

Weird. Mine has been alot better for the last month or so. Worse is some of the recent football playoff games and I might have ~2 during the whole game. Use to be 10-15 or so. 

Now I hear maybe one or two a day on regular shows.


----------



## JoeKustra

2004raptor said:


> Weird. Mine has been alot better for the last month or so. Worse is some of the recent football playoff games and I might have ~2 during the whole game. Use to be 10-15 or so.
> 
> Now I hear maybe one or two a day on regular shows.


I agree. I feel that we are seeing the change as a side effect of the faster audio return when going from full screen to a menu. Since that time has been reduced, only the very long dropouts have survived. The ones that were more frequent but short are now gone.

However, this doesn't apply to my Mini. It has had no change and the dropouts are very long and frequent. It is connected directly to a TV without an AVR. Luckily, it's in my kitchen and I only use it for a few hours every day.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I agree. I feel that we are seeing the change as a side effect of the faster audio return when going from full screen to a menu. Since that time has been reduced, only the very long dropouts have survived. The ones that were more frequent but short are now gone.
> 
> However, this doesn't apply to my Mini. It has had no change and the dropouts are very long and frequent. It is connected directly to a TV without an AVR. Luckily, it's in my kitchen and I only use it for a few hours every day.


Interesting you mention long duration, the single one I had last night was long enough that I thought for sure it was an incoming signal issue and was just going to let it go, but I did go ahead and rewind and sure enough, all the audio played back just perfectly.

I have been watching lots of Blu-ray and haven't spent much time at all watching TV(live sports) so when I do finally watch something and there's still an audio dropout, it's just annoying and discouraging.

My TV viewing is always done with a Denon AVR in use with the TiVo set for Dolby Digital output. It's been ruled out that the sink device(AVR,TV,etc) could be contributing to the problem right?


----------



## Jack Mccarthy

kbmb said:


> Figured with all the blue circle talk, why not complain about the audio dropouts again. Last weeks Blacklist for me had a ton of dropouts. Yet again, rewinding and they go away.
> 
> Does the X1 have this many problems
> 
> -Kevin





keenanSR said:


> I had an audio dropout tonight while watching The Expanse. It was the only show I watched tonight. This problem TiVo has with these dropouts is really getting old, it's to the point where I may just sell the box and go with whatever Comcast has (X1?). I'm tired of it, and TiVo seems to have no clue on what the problem is.


I had 4 visits by Comcast technicians since I rented an X1 box to compare picture/audio dropout issue with my Tivo Roamio and Tivo Premiere.

All 3 DVRs were having issues even with good signal levels (80-92%, SNR 35-37dB) and no ingress from other lines, but my problems were mostly during primetime hours. I finally had the line going from the junction box to my apartment replaced and now since the SNR is 38dB with a signal level of 95%, the X1 box works perfectly, but both TIVOs actually got worse and I had to bring down the SNR to between 31-33dB recommended by TIVO tech support with a signal level of 80% with 20dB of pad attenuation for the Roamio and maybe 9dB of padding for the Premiere to bring that back to it's working level of 36-37dB SNR and 88-92% of signal level. The Premiere I've owned over 3 years without issue with those levels and it still has random audio dropouts that jump around during replay while the Roamio has both picture glitches and audio dropouts, but at least they're better than they were originally. The Roamio does appear to be defective since I have audio dropouts almost every time during the 8 second replay or 30 second advance even when watching OTA shows.

Just my two cents.


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> Interesting you mention long duration, the single one I had last night was long enough that I thought for sure it was an incoming signal issue and was just going to let it go, but I did go ahead and rewind and sure enough, all the audio played back just perfectly.
> 
> I have been watching lots of Blu-ray and haven't spent much time at all watching TV(live sports) so when I do finally watch something and there's still an audio dropout, it's just annoying and discouraging.
> 
> My TV viewing is always done with a Denon AVR in use with the TiVo set for Dolby Digital output. It's been ruled out that the sink device(AVR,TV,etc) could be contributing to the problem right?


I would never rule out anything, but my observations have been constant for quite a while. Sports are easier to notice since they have constant background noise. This would also apply to a music track, but they are rare on TV.

I suspect TiVo is busy right now with HDMI & 4K issues. After those are under control they might fix the audio problem, even if by accident. I would buy a 4k TV tomorrow if I wasn't afraid it would have issues. But I need to upgrade my AVR first, so it will be a while. I have a lot of patience.


----------



## ceenAg05

We just got a Roamio OTA and are having a lot of dropouts on Netflix. Playing the audio through the TV makes the dropouts very short, but if I output the sound to our receiver, either through HDMI or Toslink, the dropouts last 1-2 seconds. This is very frustrating, as I was trying to replace my HTPC Media Center DVR and the headaches it would give with something that would get rid of the HDMI handshaking issues of HTPCs and be in general more user friendly. Between this and the remote that won't even accept the codes Tivo tells you to try, this is looking like a waste of my time and money.


----------



## keenanSR

I had watched around 9-10 hrs of TV and didn't get a dropout and just as I was thinking the problem might be gone for good the next 2 shows I watched both had dropouts. Really tired of this crap.

I just sent in a support request/notice referring to this thread and the fact that TiVo reps have actually participated in it. You can send a request via the support page,

https://support.tivo.com/CreateCaseFromSupport

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, those requests made for data/recording points asked for by TiVo reps earlier in this thread have not amounted to anything so far have they? Has anyone heard back from TiVo on this problem? I know I haven't.


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> I had watched around 9-10 hrs of TV and didn't get a dropout and just as I was thinking the problem might be gone for good the next 2 shows I watched both had dropouts. Really tired of this crap.
> 
> I just sent in a support request/notice referring to this thread and the fact that TiVo reps have actually participated in it. You can send a request via the support page,
> 
> https://support.tivo.com/CreateCaseFromSupport
> 
> As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong, those requests made for data/recording points asked for by TiVo reps earlier in this thread have not amounted to anything so far have they? Has anyone heard back from TiVo on this problem? I know I haven't.


I sent a few in and have heard nothing. However the frequency has been reduced since the change done to make audio come back faster when entering and leaving TiVo Central. I feel the really short ones are no longer heard, but the longer ones still make it through.

There has been zero change on my Mini. It could be because the Mini has not received either RC14 or RC21.


----------



## mickinct

I just hope CBS feed for SB their are none.


----------



## JoeKustra

mickinct said:


> I just hope CBS feed for SB their are none.


I think that hope is going to be a big disappointment. CBS is a high load, there will be background noise, and my feed is poor to my headend. Maybe some increase in activity will make this issue get more attention. Maybe not.


----------



## keenanSR

mickinct said:


> I just hope CBS feed for SB their are none.





JoeKustra said:


> I think that hope is going to be a big disappointment. CBS is a high load, there will be background noise, and my feed is poor to my headend. Maybe some increase in activity will make this issue get more attention. Maybe not.


I seem to get more dropouts on CBS than other channels so I'm expecting to have some today.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I sent a few in and have heard nothing. However the frequency has been reduced since the change done to make audio come back faster when entering and leaving TiVo Central. I feel the really short ones are no longer heard, but the longer ones still make it through.
> 
> There has been zero change on my Mini. It could be because the Mini has not received either RC14 or RC21.


Some followup; I went back and replayed one of the shows that I had some dropouts in(Grimm) using a different signal path than I normally use. In normal use I have the TiVo output run through an Oppo 103D to utilize the superior scaling(1080i>1080p and 720p>1080p) of the Oppo and because the Oppo also has Darbee builtin. This signal path was when I originally heard the dropout and upon replay it would either no longer be there or move a few seconds earlier or later. Last night I sent the TiVo output directly to the Denon X4000 AVR and the dropout was still there and didn't move around. What all that means, I don't know but I suspect the TiVo is having trouble with audio signals that may be less than perfect from the provider; put another way, it could be that the TiVo's 'error correction' is set 'too tight' not allowing it to overcome those signal anomalies. Possibly the error correction is a bit better in the Oppo and that's why it can recover the lost audio sometimes but also have the dropout move position during playback.

Signals from TV providers(and the networks themselves) are notoriously sloppy when it comes to sending book perfect data streams and the devices downstream such as our TiVos and DVRs have the job of decoding and/or 'correcting' these data streams, I think it's possible that TiVo's decoding/correcting is not quite right.

Also, got a response from TiVo support this morning, part of the response is below. Names and actual reference numbers are left out.



> Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I will be more than happy to help you with the audio drop outs on your Roamio Plus.
> 
> You are correct, it is a known issue that we are working on. Sarah has been monitoring TiVo Community, and is making reports to our engineers to try to fix this problem.
> 
> Thank you for your patience while we work on this issue.


So, apparently they really are working on it, and hopefully, it will be fixed soon.


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> So, apparently they really are working on it, and hopefully, it will be fixed soon.


That's great. I'll light a candle.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> That's great. I'll light a candle.


Yup, same here, a really big one!


----------



## kbmb

Well lately I feel like my TiVo is a glorified TV guide for watching shows on Hulu. Had bad dropouts with The Goldbergs and Modern Family this week that I just watched it on Hulu. Sadly not everything is available on Hulu. 

I have lost all faith that this is actually getting fixed. I might have to start looking at the damn X1 just to save my sanity. 

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

Started to watch Black Sails last night(Starz West 9 pm PST airing via Comcast) and at about the 6 min mark, where Flint and Silver are sitting and talking on the beach, I got a dropout. I replayed the segment 5 times and each time the dropout was there with just the slightest change in duration and time-point. On the 6th replay, it played perfectly, no dropout or audio anomaly at all. I played the segment again today and it plays perfectly. It's almost as if the TiVo's audio decoding is "learning" as it goes along. The problem with that hypothesis is that I could go back and play the segment later today and it may have a dropout again.

This problem feels like some sort of error correction setting not being exactly right, as if it's not tolerant enough to allow a less than perfect signal be corrected, an FEC, or forward error correction problem with the TiVo.

I was particularly annoyed with this dropout last night as it happened during an important piece of dialog and it takes you right out of the pleasure of watching the show. Starz being a premium channel has no commercial breaks, programs run continuously from start to finish with no breaks, so to have an audio dropout, during an important segment, well, just not fun at all.


----------



## kbmb

Yet again, can't watch our ABC shows that we recorded because of dropouts. Have to watch them on our Apple TV via Hulu. It's awful to have paid all this money for a device that has little to no software development going on.

Love it when the wife continues to say....."why do we have Tivos again?"

I have to shake my head and say "not sure" at this point. It can't even do the basics of recording shows and successfully playing them back.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

Maybe 20.5.9 but I'm not betting on it.


----------



## shoman1994

kbmb said:


> Yet again, can't wait our ABC shows that we recorded because of dropouts. Have to watch them on our Apple TV via Hulu. It's awful to have paid all this money for a device that has little to no software development going on.
> 
> Love it when the wife continues to say....."why do we have Tivos again?"
> 
> I have to shake my head and say "not sure" at this point. It can't even do the basics of recording shows and successfully playing them back.
> 
> -Kevin


Thats weird... The only audio issues i'm aware of is Netflix. OTA audio is good. You might be having some OTA issues you need to work through.


----------



## kbmb

shoman1994 said:


> Thats weird... The only audio issues i'm aware of is Netflix. OTA audio is good. You might be having some OTA issues you need to work through.


It's not me. I'm cable as well.

It's been acknowledged by Tivo as an issue.

-Kevin


----------



## shoman1994

kbmb said:


> It's not me. I'm cable as well.
> 
> It's been acknowledged by Tivo as an issue.
> 
> -Kevin


I didn't realize that Cable was a problem either. These Roamio's are a MESS!!


----------



## JoeKustra

shoman1994 said:


> I didn't realize that Cable was a problem either. These Roamio's are a MESS!!


Compared to what?


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> Compared to what?


Think he was talking about Over-The-Air vs Cable.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Think he was talking about Over-The-Air vs Cable.
> 
> -Kevin


I was talking about the MESS. I have a few recorders I can suggest if anybody wants a mess.


----------



## HerronScott

kbmb said:


> Yet again, can't watch our ABC shows that we recorded because of dropouts. in


We haven't noticed any audio dropouts here on the ABC shows that we record (Galavant, Castle and Agents of Shield) so I wonder what could be causing it for you and the others with this issue. It sounds like the BSC problem where not everyone is having the issue or perhaps not to the same degree. Hopefully they can find a cause and fix it soon for you.

We have Roamio Pro with Comcast and audio is fed out to an older Onkyo receiver via Toslink (receiver only has component connections for video).

Scott


----------



## kbmb

HerronScott said:


> We haven't noticed any audio dropouts here on the ABC shows that we record (Galavant, Castle and Agents of Shield) so I wonder what could be causing it for you and the others with this issue. It sounds like the BSC problem where not everyone is having the issue or perhaps not to the same degree. Hopefully they can find a cause and fix it soon for you.
> 
> We have Roamio Pro with Comcast and audio is fed out to an older Onkyo receiver via Toslink (receiver only has component connections for video).
> 
> Scott


Yeah it's bizarre. If it's just a random dropout you can usually rewind and it will play back ok. But with us ABC shows tend to be the worse were its dropout after dropout. We watched all other programs this week on other networks without issue.

-Kevin


----------



## shoman1994

JoeKustra said:


> Compared to what?


Ota is fine as long as your setup is installed properly. 
Netflix is what I've complained about here. Horrible drop outs. 


kbmb said:


> Think he was talking about Over-The-Air vs Cable.
> 
> -Kevin


And streaming

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## spaldingclan

shoman1994 said:


> Ota is fine as long as your setup is installed properly.
> Netflix is what I've complained about here. Horrible drop outs.
> 
> And streaming
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Me too...we've been binge watching Friends on Netflix (don't judge) for the last year and lately (last few months) the audio dropouts have gotten terrible. I had to switch to Netflix on the Firetv


----------



## smbaker

Confirming here that I'm having issues as well. The latest was this week's Limitless, which I had to stop watching due to constant audio dropouts. 

As far as I can tell, there are no video artifacts associated with the dropouts. It's only audio. I rewatched by streaming to my Premiere upstairs and the dropouts were not present. 

My Tivo is connected via HDMI directly to the TV, with a soundbar connected via HDMI to the TV's HDMI output. Next time I'll try to shut off the soundbar and see if that has any impact. 

I hope Tivo is working on this problem and is close to a solution. It's becoming very annoying.


----------



## hybucket

Just found this thread. Been having the audio dropout problem for a long time...thought it was ABC Network, but now has developed on just about all the channels. Not so annoying as not to be able to watch, but still noticeable at certain times. And not just me...several on my block with TiVOs are experiencing this. ANd it's been going on since...when?? Months, according to this thread.


----------



## Mech33

I just stumbled upon this thread, and I guess I am somewhat glad to hear that it is not just me having these audio dropout problems. My setup is:

TiVo Roamio
Yamaha AVR
LG TV

I primarily have the audio stuttering issues when watching Netflix, but it has happened on occasion on other recordings. When the audio drops, the audio mode icons (that show the 5.1 surround mode) on the front of the AVR flash.

I've thought for a while that this was an interaction issue between the TiVo and the Yamaha AVR, because prior to the Yamaha I had the Roamio hooked directly up to a simple amplifier through the Optical output, and I never had the audio skip once!

But from reading the accounts of others on this thread, it sounds like it is more likely an issue with the TiVo generating the audio stream over HDMI.

I'm going to try and rig up my setup to use the optical output from the TiVo but still passing through the Yamaha AVR to see if that has any impact on the skipping...

For me, it skips every 5-10 minutes or so for a split second. Very annoying...


----------



## JoeKustra

Mech33 said:


> I just stumbled upon this thread, and I guess I am somewhat glad to hear that it is not just me having these audio dropout problems. My setup is:
> 
> TiVo Roamio
> Yamaha AVR
> LG TV
> 
> I primarily have the audio stuttering issues when watching Netflix, but it has happened on occasion on other recordings. When the audio drops, the audio mode icons (that show the 5.1 surround mode) on the front of the AVR flash.
> 
> I've thought for a while that this was an interaction issue between the TiVo and the Yamaha AVR, because prior to the Yamaha I had the Roamio hooked directly up to a simple amplifier through the Optical output, and I never had the audio skip once!
> 
> But from reading the accounts of others on this thread, it sounds like it is more likely an issue with the TiVo generating the audio stream over HDMI.
> 
> I'm going to try and rig up my setup to use the optical output from the TiVo but still passing through the Yamaha AVR to see if that has any impact on the skipping...
> 
> For me, it skips every 5-10 minutes or so for a split second. Very annoying...


I have a Yamaha RX-V867. I have both HDMI and the TiVo's optical connected. I only have dropouts on live TV. They used to be bad enough to cause the LEDs to flicker, but that's rare now with the RC21 firmware. The test, which is the same for HDMI and optical, is that the dropout does not happen if you rewind and play again. The issue "seems" to be with the DD decoder system. But nothing is positive yet.


----------



## Mech33

JoeKustra said:


> I have a Yamaha RX-V867. I have both HDMI and the TiVo's optical connected. I only have dropouts on live TV. They used to be bad enough to cause the LEDs to flicker, but that's rare now with the RC21 firmware. The test, which is the same for HDMI and optical, is that the dropout does not happen if you rewind and play again. The issue "seems" to be with the DD decoder system. But nothing is positive yet.


Do you think the issue is with the Yamaha, or the TiVo?


----------



## kbmb

Mech33 said:


> Do you think the issue is with the Yamaha, or the TiVo?


I also have a Yamaha - but I can remove it and run directly to the Samsung TV and have the dropouts still occur.

Also have my parents which have 2 TiVos, one with a Denon I believe and one directly to the TV.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

Mech33 said:


> Do you think the issue is with the Yamaha, or the TiVo?


See above post.


----------



## Mech33

JoeKustra said:


> See above post.


Not sure exactly what you're referring to. You mentioned thinking the issue was with the DD decoder, but I assume the DD decoder is in the Yamaha (which is taking the DD stream from the HDMI and decoding it to send to the speakers)? But the above posts seem to reference that the issue still occurs even without a receiver in the loop...


----------



## mrizzo80

Getting numerous audio dropouts on Netflix lately on my Roamio Plus. Probably one a minute.


----------



## shoman1994

JoeKustra said:


> I have a Yamaha RX-V867. I have both HDMI and the TiVo's optical connected. I only have dropouts on live TV. They used to be bad enough to cause the LEDs to flicker, but that's rare now with the RC21 firmware. The test, which is the same for HDMI and optical, is that the dropout does not happen if you rewind and play again. The issue "seems" to be with the DD decoder system. But nothing is positive yet.


I haven't tried rewinding and replaying. But for me it ONLY happens with Netflix. NO other DD signal (HULU, VUDU, Amazon, live TV or any other apps I use on the Roamio OTA) has this problem for me.



Mech33 said:


> I just stumbled upon this thread, and I guess I am somewhat glad to hear that it is not just me having these audio dropout problems. My setup is:
> 
> TiVo Roamio
> Yamaha AVR
> LG TV
> 
> I primarily have the audio stuttering issues when watching Netflix, but it has happened on occasion on other recordings. When the audio drops, the audio mode icons (that show the 5.1 surround mode) on the front of the AVR flash.
> 
> I've thought for a while that this was an interaction issue between the TiVo and the Yamaha AVR, because prior to the Yamaha I had the Roamio hooked directly up to a simple amplifier through the Optical output, and I never had the audio skip once!
> 
> But from reading the accounts of others on this thread, it sounds like it is more likely an issue with the TiVo generating the audio stream over HDMI.
> 
> I'm going to try and rig up my setup to use the optical output from the TiVo but still passing through the Yamaha AVR to see if that has any impact on the skipping...
> 
> For me, it skips every 5-10 minutes or so for a split second. Very annoying...


For me it happens at different times and depends on the video being watched.



Mech33 said:


> Do you think the issue is with the Yamaha, or the TiVo?


I have a Pioneer Premier. It also happens direct to my Vizio M75 and with my TiVo Mini's on Panasonic TVs.


----------



## joewom

Just noticed this happens. Happens on live tv recordings Netflix and Amazon so far.


----------



## shoman1994

joewom said:


> Just noticed this happens. Happens on live tv recordings Netflix and Amazon so far.


Tivo has big problems.... there is no denominator!


----------



## laria

I am glad to read that I'm not nuts but not glad to see that there doesn't seem to be any resolution to this. 

This has been driving me crazy for months on most of the networks but mainly ABC. For a while my OnePasses were recording from the same southern NH ABC as kbmb, and I switched it to Boston thinking it was something wrong with the NH station, but it's just as terrible. Watching the Oscars tonight is awful.


----------



## shoman1994

laria said:


> I am glad to read that I'm not nuts but not glad to see that there doesn't seem to be any resolution to this.
> 
> This has been driving me crazy for months on most of the networks but mainly ABC. For a while my OnePasses were recording from the same southern NH ABC as kbmb, and I switched it to Boston thinking it was something wrong with the NH station, but it's just as terrible. Watching the Oscars tonight is awful.


I'm watching the Oscars on my OTA antenna from the WMTW tower in Maine. Solid. In fact no OTA channel is a problem for me.


----------



## laria

shoman1994 said:


> I'm watching the Oscars on my OTA antenna from the WMTW tower in Maine. Solid. In fact no OTA channel is a problem for me.


I am on Comcast cable and have the problem on both WCVB and WMUR. It is far and away worse on ABC than the others.

I have also had the problem less frequently on WBZ and WHDH, though. I haven't watched anything in a while on WFXT, so not sure about there.


----------



## kbmb

laria said:


> I am on Comcast cable and have the problem on both WCVB and WMUR. It is far and away worse on ABC than the others.
> 
> I have also had the problem less frequently on WBZ and WHDH, though. I haven't watched anything in a while on WFXT, so not sure about there.


Same here. Recording Oscars on WCVB and have had multiple dropouts. Had some when C3-PO came out....not sure if you did as well.

I used to record everything on WCVB. When this started I switched to WMUR thinking that would be better. It hasn't been.

Also the same experience as you with WBZ and WHDH. We had a couple Blacklist episodes be unwatchable last year.

Hoping 20.5.9 has the fix.

-Kevin


----------



## laria

kbmb said:


> I used to record everything on WCVB. When this started I switched to WMUR thinking that would be better. It hasn't been.


Yeah, it sounds like we both did the same thing only opposite stations.  All my OnePasses were not set up to record any specific channels, so they seemed to always default to WMUR, and I switched them all a couple weeks ago to use WCVB.


----------



## JoeKustra

Mech33 said:


> Not sure exactly what you're referring to. You mentioned thinking the issue was with the DD decoder, but I assume the DD decoder is in the Yamaha (which is taking the DD stream from the HDMI and decoding it to send to the speakers)? But the above posts seem to reference that the issue still occurs even without a receiver in the loop...


If you sent the digital audio output to your TV or AVR, the audio dropouts happen (but they are rare now). If you change the TiVo's audio to PCM, or send the audio in analog (PCM), or to a device that doesn't accept DD, the dropouts stop. An AVR, with many audio CODECs, seems to make the issue worse.


----------



## shoman1994

JoeKustra said:


> If you sent the digital audio output to your TV or AVR, the audio dropouts happen (but they are rare now). If you change the TiVo's audio to PCM, or send the audio in analog (PCM), or to a device that doesn't accept DD, the dropouts stop. An AVR, with many audio CODECs, seems to make the issue worse.


That is not true. I've changed the setting to PCM and connected the TV directly and it still has the problem. I also have 2 Mini's that are connected directly to TV's via HDMI cable but are in stereo mode. Those have the dropouts as well. ALso happens using the Toslink (optical) cable.
The only thing I have not tried was connecting them via RCA cables.


----------



## JoeKustra

shoman1994 said:


> That is not true. I've changed the setting to PCM and connected the TV directly and it still has the problem. I also have 2 Mini's that are connected directly to TV's via HDMI cable but are in stereo mode. Those have the dropouts as well. ALso happens using the Toslink (optical) cable.
> The only thing I have not tried was connecting them via RCA cables.


You have it worse than I do. That's sad. When I said "digital" I meant to cover HDMI and optical. The A/V cables, which are always PCM, worked well for me last summer, even though the sound effects are quite loud.

My two Mini boxes have shown no improvement since the beginning. They have really long audio dropouts. Both are set to DD and feed a TV directly.


----------



## kbmb

shoman1994 said:


> That is not true. I've changed the setting to PCM and connected the TV directly and it still has the problem. I also have 2 Mini's that are connected directly to TV's via HDMI cable but are in stereo mode. Those have the dropouts as well. ALso happens using the Toslink (optical) cable.
> The only thing I have not tried was connecting them via RCA cables.


Same for me. When I was doing my testing with an Agents of SHIELD episode last year, I got the dropouts no matter what the connection was.

-Kevin


----------



## joewom

kbmb said:


> Same for me. When I was doing my testing with an Agents of SHIELD episode last year, I got the dropouts no matter what the connection was.
> 
> -Kevin


They are getting worse for me or I just haven't noticed until now. I got about 12 dropouts on a netflix show and 6 during walking dead last night. Maybe the new update will address this. I rather have this fixed then skipmode which I still don't have on my plus.


----------



## hybucket

I don't get them on streaming sites (Netflix, Amazon, etc,), but on most others, be it network or cable. Used to be just WCVB, now it's most of them. Usually not severe, or even long-lasting, but annoying.


----------



## joewom

hybucket said:


> I don't get them on streaming sites (Netflix, Amazon, etc,), but on most others, be it network or cable. Used to be just WCVB, now it's most of them. Usually not severe, or even long-lasting, but annoying.


Yeah its not even a second on mine but very annoying. I think I noticed it on something I was really into and now notice it more.


----------



## philhu

I always assumed the audio dropouts is the cable stream getting 'a little' corrupted. Sometimes when it happens, the screen pixelates for 100ms or so, just noticeable, like a badly placed pause/start


----------



## laria

The pixelated screen to me, at least in the past, has always been an indicator that my HD is going. Although maybe now that they've switched over to digital, that is not necessarily the case anymore.


----------



## joewom

philhu said:


> I always assumed the audio dropouts is the cable stream getting 'a little' corrupted. Sometimes when it happens, the screen pixelates for 100ms or so, just noticeable, like a badly placed pause/start


No because if you rewind it does not happen. So I would guess its in the stream from the TiVo to TV or receiver whichever you got.


----------



## philhu

with digital and the pixelation I described, means that a packet or 2 got corrupted.

BTW, on Fios, if you think u have low signal strength, the best was to tell without going into scan cable channels, is to go to 617 (Fox Bus News). The tech that came out told me that all other channels should read 96-99 on a tivo scan, but FBN will read 92-94. Like how the took canaries into mines and if they died, they knew their air was compromised.

On my system, I lost 617 late last summer, then alot of dropouts/corruption, my sig strength showed 66-68, threshold is 67.

Fios guy came out, replaced the box on the side of my house on that Saturday that was -9 degrees outside, and was done in 12 minutes and my strengths up to high 90's


----------



## hybucket

Everyone here seems to have similar but not always matching problems with the audio dropouts, but the bottom line is....there is obviously some kind of problem on the TiVO end. Is there an "end" in sight? Does Margaret still monitor these forums occasionally?


----------



## philhu

I still do not think u have proved it a Tivo problem except for the fact the Tivo does NO error correction. You are assuming the cable strean is error free and I find it is not. 

Seeing 2 dropouts in an hour. Seems about right for cable


----------



## JoeKustra

hybucket said:


> Everyone here seems to have similar but not always matching problems with the audio dropouts, but the bottom line is....there is obviously some kind of problem on the TiVO end. Is there an "end" in sight? Does Margaret still monitor these forums occasionally?


TiVo has indicated they are working on the problem. I don't have much hope however. http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10788990#post10788990


----------



## hybucket

Thanks - I obviously missed that post.
Since the post is close to a month old, I agree with your "not much hope" comment.


----------



## jmpage2

joewom said:


> They are getting worse for me or I just haven't noticed until now. I got about 12 dropouts on a netflix show and 6 during walking dead last night. Maybe the new update will address this. I rather have this fixed then skipmode which I still don't have on my plus.


Getting to the point now that some programs are almost unwatchable. Rewinding and the dropouts reoccur at the same point in programs.

It is much worse now than it was even a month or two ago.


----------



## shoman1994

philhu said:


> I still do not think u have proved it a Tivo problem except for the fact the Tivo does NO error correction. You are assuming the cable strean is error free and I find it is not.
> 
> Seeing 2 dropouts in an hour. Seems about right for cable


I'd be happy with that. My audio drops can happen every minute on Netflix. Video is smooth... It's audio only. I have Netflix on 7 devices ... The 3 tivo units are the only ones with issues.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


----------



## laria

Yeah, if it was only 2 an hour that would be barely noticeable for me I think. I get probably up to 5 a minute.


----------



## joewom

shoman1994 said:


> I'd be happy with that. My audio drops can happen every minute on Netflix. Video is smooth... It's audio only. I have Netflix on 7 devices ... The 3 tivo units are the only ones with issues.
> 
> Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk


Not to mention if you rewind the audio dropout is not there. So that means it was not a cable problem. It records what comes in. So audio came in.


----------



## L David Matheny

joewom said:


> Not to mention if you rewind the audio dropout is not there. So that means it was not a cable problem. It records what comes in. So audio came in.


As is sometimes pointed out, glitches that disappear after an 8-sec rewind seem to indicate drive-related problems. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the hard drive itself is at fault. There may be problems with TiVo's code handling buffering of data to or (in this case) from the hard drive. For example, the disk-buffering task could be running at a priority that is too low, which could allow other (possibly less critical) tasks to interrupt it too often or for too many milliseconds at a time.


----------



## JoeKustra

L David Matheny said:


> As is sometimes pointed out, glitches that disappear after an 8-sec rewind seem to indicate drive-related problems. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the hard drive itself is at fault. There may be problems with TiVo's code handling buffering of data to or (in this case) from the hard drive. For example, the disk-buffering task could be running at a priority that is too low, which could allow other (possibly less critical) tasks to interrupt it too often or for too many milliseconds at a time.


I like your idea, but if the disk read is an issue, wouldn't there be video issues also? I do have video & audio blocking problems with some CBS recordings, but those are likely my feed and some can be quite severe. Or they can be my old 1TB drive. I might replace the drive just to check. After the season ends.


----------



## L David Matheny

JoeKustra said:


> I like your idea, but if the disk read is an issue, wouldn't there be video issues also? I do have video & audio blocking problems with some CBS recordings, but those are likely my feed and some can be quite severe. Or they can be my old 1TB drive. I might replace the drive just to check. After the season ends.


Besides buffering data to and from a hard drive, buffering is usually required when feeding a data stream to any device that generates analog output for us to see or hear. If the video and audio are handled by separate D-to-A converter chips, overrun or underrun could occur for either one or both, independently. Any interruption in the flow of data normally causes a corresponding glitch.

But it now occurs to me that the mechanism is less clear in a case where output is entirely digital, like a TiVo sending only HDMI data. I suppose it's possible that if some data (in this case audio) is not distributed evenly within the overall data stream, that could cause problems later when the data is eventually converted to analog.


----------



## lessd

I have the audio drop out issue, on some programs, sometimes so bad I turn on the CC so I don't have to re-wind, I feed my HDTV via HDMI than go from my TV to my surround sound system VIA an optical cable, I found that the TV sound is there all the time its my surround sound system that gets cut, I though the problem was my TV cutting the sound, not the TiVo. Most recordings have no sound problems for me, and Netflix never has any sound problems, again for me, but last night *Blindspot* had tons of audio drops, and no skip mode, just checked and it still has no skip mode, the older ones do have the skip tag.


----------



## JoeKustra

I know a lot of programming is fluid these day with election coverage, but since getting SkipMode, my boxes have more frequent dropouts. Coincidence?


----------



## laria

I don't know... I had/have tons of dropouts and I only just finally got skip mode yesterday.


----------



## keenanSR

It seems as if I've had more dropouts as well, especially on CBS programs.


----------



## kbmb

Got 20.5.9 tonight. It certainly didn't fix dropouts on already recorded shows, we finally started Agent Carter tonight and had dropouts right away. 

What's worse is the first 5 episodes aren't on VOD or Hulu. So we switched to PCM which instead of the full dropouts, we now get garbled audio instead...almost like a scratched cd skipping. But at least it's watchable. 

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

It's very early, but so far no dropouts. I'll wait for the release notes.


----------



## HerronScott

kbmb said:


> Got 20.5.9 tonight. It certainly didn't fix dropouts on already recorded shows, we finally started Agent Carter tonight and had dropouts right away.
> 
> What's worse is the first 5 episodes aren't on VOD or Hulu. So we switched to PCM which instead of the full dropouts, we now get garbled audio instead...almost like a scratched cd skipping. But at least it's watchable.
> 
> -Kevin


Have you transferred one of these to your PC and listened to the audio since PCM playback is not right either?

Scott


----------



## laria

Ugh, these dropouts are ruining the _Downton Abbey_ finale.  Guess it's not just mainly ABC. I get one every 5-10s.


----------



## kbmb

HerronScott said:


> Have you transferred one of these to your PC and listened to the audio since PCM playback is not right either?
> 
> Scott


I haven't yet.

I've switched back to Dolby and so far the dropouts haven't come back since about 25 min in.

I'm hoping maybe the latest doesn't fix old recordings. Honestly though, I'm at a loss.

-Kevin


----------



## spaldingclan

I wonder if this will fix the audio dropouts on Netflix?


----------



## lessd

spaldingclan said:


> I wonder if this will fix the audio dropouts on Netflix?


I have had audio dropouts on recorded shows but never on Netflix, just watched all 13 episodes of Netflix's *House of Cards *this weekend (I was sick in bed or couch) not one audio dropout. Had the dropouts on recorded network programs, this was before I got the 20.5.9 update. I will be looking to see if the audio dropout problem got fixed with this update.


----------



## IRJ

I am suffering an audio issue though I would not call it drop outs.

When I use the new Skip feature, or fast forward thru commercials and then hit play the audio comes back on at say 50%. It can take 2-8 seconds for the 100% audio volume to return. Anyone experienced this?
Thanks.


----------



## Jed1

I got 20.5.9 yesterday afternoon and I still have some audio dropouts when running HDMI through my receiver. I turned on my A/V receiver to watch Shooter on TMC HD last night and got a couple of quick dropouts with DD.

I also still have the problem when I turn on the receiver and the TiVo does not recognize that I turned it on and keeps sending 2 channel stereo. I have to change the channel to get the TiVo to send DD. 
Of course when I turn the A/V receiver off it keeps sending DD to the TV speakers and I get the helicopter noise. I have to change channels to get the TiVo to send the right audio signal.

This means that the EDID data is still broke as the TiVo does not sense any changes in the HDMI chain. This did work correctly with the Premiere series and it has never worked correctly with the Roamios since I got them in December to replace my Premieres.


----------



## kbmb

We watched 2 old episodes of Agent Carter last night and still had a few dropouts (again, back 8 fixes it). So not sure if TiVo did fix anything, if it works for already recorded programs. I was hoping, since none of this seems like it was recorded.

Haven't watched any new programs since 20.5.9 - but I'm guessing it will be hit or miss still. 

Was really hoping to never have an audio dropout again, but it looks like 20.5.9 didn't fix that.

-Kevin


----------



## kbmb

HerronScott said:


> Have you transferred one of these to your PC and listened to the audio since PCM playback is not right either?
> 
> Scott


Ok, so finally getting around to doing this. Noticed something interesting.

At the beginning of the first episode of Agent Carter, there is a clear 5 seconds where we got multiple dropouts - ok perfect spot to test. I played this first on the TiVo so I would have a reference to where to look on the PC. What's interesting is....it took me hitting back 8 about 4 times before the TiVo corrected itself. After this, each time I hit back 8 it played fine, almost like it remembered it was fixed. I then went to Live TV and then back into the show, and again the dropouts happened in the same place. This time only took 1 back 8 to get it to fix.

Now onto the PC download. Used KMTTG to download and decrypt this episode. When I play it back on the PC using VLC, that same section that has dropouts on the TiVo has NO dropouts on the PC. I can rewind multiple times and it never has the dropouts. Also transferred to my Mac and played with Quicktime - still no dropouts.

Then I used the old TiVo desktop to transfer this decrypted MPG back to the TiVo. The dropouts returned. Again, I could back 8 a few times and eventually get it to play without the dropouts.

Also when testing on the TiVo, I could back 8 and sometimes new dropouts would appear where there weren't any before.

-Kevin


----------



## lessd

kbmb said:


> Ok, so finally getting around to doing this. Noticed something interesting.
> 
> At the beginning of the first episode of Agent Carter, there is a clear 5 seconds where we got multiple dropouts - ok perfect spot to test. I played this first on the TiVo so I would have a reference to where to look on the PC. What's interesting is....it took me hitting back 8 about 4 times before the TiVo corrected itself. After this, each time I hit back 8 it played fine, almost like it remembered it was fixed. I then went to Live TV and then back into the show, and again the dropouts happened in the same place. This time only took 1 back 8 to get it to fix.
> 
> Now onto the PC download. Used KMTTG to download and decrypt this episode. When I play it back on the PC using VLC, that same section that has dropouts on the TiVo has NO dropouts on the PC. I can rewind multiple times and it never has the dropouts. Also transferred to my Mac and played with Quicktime - still no dropouts.
> 
> Then I used the old TiVo desktop to transfer this decrypted MPG back to the TiVo. The dropouts returned. Again, I could back 8 a few times and eventually get it to play without the dropouts.
> 
> Also when testing on the TiVo, I could back 8 and sometimes new dropouts would appear where there weren't any before.
> 
> -Kevin


A somewhat random TiVo hardware audio problem, UG 

But you did some good work, thanks.


----------



## dhoward

I was one of the first to note the problem. I originally posted in the Bolt forum. The thing is I noticed it when I replaced my Premiere with a Bolt. So my Bolt exhibits the same problems the Roamio's are showing in this thread. However, there does not seem to be any discussions in the Bolt forum. Initially I thought it was because there was not a lot of Bolt owners and they may have thought it was their setup. Now, after all this time there should have been more comments. So I wonder if my Bolt is the exception. Pretty much, though, I have seen close to every version of this problem that has been described here. I have tried several of the solutions mentioned and none have eliminated the dropouts.


----------



## laria

lessd said:


> A somewhat random TiVo hardware audio problem, UG
> 
> But you did some good work, thanks.


I don't know if it's really a hardware problem. I guess it could be, I don't know enough about these things, but I have had a Roamio for over 2 years and this did not start happening until recently, like the last 3-4 months.


----------



## kbmb

laria said:


> I don't know if it's really a hardware problem. I guess it could be, I don't know enough about these things, but I have had a Roamio for over 2 years and this did not start happening until recently, like the last 3-4 months.


Yeah similar here. I got my Plus in 9/2013. I remember someone posted a thread about Elementary dropouts back in 11/2014. I responded to that thread on 12/2014. That's when I first started seeing this. So I had almost a year of no dropouts.

It wasn't until 10/2015 that I started this thread because I was fed up 

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

Does the Bolt get the same software download the rest of TiVo's DVRs get? I'm wondering if there's something that needs to be done for the Bolts(maybe an HDCP/DRM/4K) requirement or setting that while not needed for the Roamio and earlier models is causing some sort of problem for those models. An unintended consequence possibly. I ask because this audio issue seems to have started around the time the Bolt was released(Sept, '15), at least, that's about when I recall it having come to my attention.


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> Yeah similar here. I got my Plus in 9/2013. I remember someone posted a thread about Elementary dropouts back in 11/2014. I responded to that thread on 12/2014. That's when I first started seeing this. So I had almost a year of no dropouts.
> 
> It wasn't until 10/2015 that I started this thread because I was fed up
> 
> -Kevin


Just saw your post, so my guess about incompatible unified software doesn't hold water I suppose.


----------



## JoeKustra

laria said:


> I don't know if it's really a hardware problem. I guess it could be, I don't know enough about these things, but I have had a Roamio for over 2 years and this did not start happening until recently, like the last 3-4 months.


I also agree with you. This started a few months ago. I only have the dropouts on "live" TV and have never heard one on a Premiere. I have to state that since this update I have only had one or two. That's an improvement. The biggest improvement was when the audio delay was reduced entering and leaving TiVo Central (or other DD enabled menu).

Until I see some official release notes, I reserve making any declarations.


----------



## kbmb

Well according to the release notes: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information

Doesn't look like anything related to audio dropouts is mentioned.

-Kevin


----------



## jmpage2

20.5.9 does not fix audio dropouts.

I had near continuous audio dropouts during "The 100" on Comcast the last couple of months including the most recent episode that was recorded on my Roamio with 20.5.9.


----------



## kbmb

jmpage2 said:


> 20.5.9 does not fix audio dropouts.
> 
> I had near continuous audio dropouts during "The 100" on Comcast the last couple of months including the most recent episode that was recorded on my Roamio with 20.5.9.


I still have plenty of dropouts as well.

I do continue to have decent luck with my rewinding until that set of dropouts goes away, then they stay away for a while.

Still, if we start to get a lot of dropouts and the show is on Hulu, I just switch over to my ATV and watch it there without commercials.

-Kevin


----------



## hybucket

Still numerous dropouts here with update...all channels and streaming. Random, no pattern whatsoever. None on Comcast on their otherwise-crappy DVR.


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> I still have plenty of dropouts as well.
> 
> I do continue to have decent luck with my rewinding until that set of dropouts goes away, then they stay away for a while.
> 
> Still, if we start to get a lot of dropouts and the show is on Hulu, I just switch over to my ATV and watch it there without commercials.
> 
> -Kevin


It's very disappointing that this problem didn't even get mentioned as a bug fix. Maybe next time.


----------



## CloudAtlas

kbmb said:


> Well according to the release notes: https://support.tivo.com/articles/Essential_Summary/TiVo-Software-Version-Information
> 
> Doesn't look like anything related to audio dropouts is mentioned.


From the Additional Support Documentation in the release notes you gave:

Software Version 20.5.9RC15 (March 2016)


*HDMI audio drops out when going through external device*
Amazon: Black screen and stuck spinner when launching app
TiVo Mini takes a long time to connect to a new host
C501 error when scheduling a recording through TiVo Collections
4K TVs: Unable to select 2160p and 1080p
BOLT: Reboot when plugging in tuning adapter USB

*Audio dropout on HDMI through external device*

TiVo Bug Number	*415441*
Device *Roamio Series*
Description *The audio drops out when passing HDMI through external devices (e.g., sound systems). Rebooting the Roamio restores the audio. *
Software Version	*20.5.9RC15*

https://support.tivo.com/articles/Known_Issue_Bug/Audio-dropout-on-HDMI-through-external-device


----------



## kbmb

CloudAtlas said:


> From the Additional Support Documentation in the release notes you gave:
> 
> Software Version 20.5.9RC15 (March 2016)
> 
> 
> *HDMI audio drops out when going through external device*
> Amazon: Black screen and stuck spinner when launching app
> TiVo Mini takes a long time to connect to a new host
> C501 error when scheduling a recording through TiVo Collections
> 4K TVs: Unable to select 2160p and 1080p
> BOLT: Reboot when plugging in tuning adapter USB
> 
> *Audio dropout on HDMI through external device*
> 
> TiVo Bug Number	*415441*
> Device *Roamio Series*
> Description *The audio drops out when passing HDMI through external devices (e.g., sound systems). Rebooting the Roamio restores the audio. *
> Software Version	*20.5.9RC15*
> 
> https://support.tivo.com/articles/Known_Issue_Bug/Audio-dropout-on-HDMI-through-external-device


Interesting as I didn't see that before. Not sure that's what most are experiencing though. The description for that talks about an audio dropout that needs a reboot. I don't need a reboot as it's not a complete dropout.

Also, my dropouts have nothing to do with a external device. I can go directly to the TV via HDMI and still have the dropouts.

-Kevin


----------



## jmpage2

You would have to have access to the TiVo bug report to see exactly what the problem description is and how they claim to have fixed it. 

What I know is that audio dropouts for me (going HDMI from TiVo to Denon and then on to TV) have gotten progressively worse over the past six or so months and some programs now are borderline unwatchable.

I even switched my TiVo temporarily to PCM audio output but the dropouts still occur. I would have potentially bought the explanation that it was a Comcast issue right up until it started occurring in Netflix material last night.

I'm about ready to dropkick the Roamio out a nearby window.


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> Interesting as I didn't see that before. Not sure that's what most are experiencing though. The description for that talks about an audio dropout that needs a reboot. I don't need a reboot as it's not a complete dropout.
> 
> Also, my dropouts have nothing to do with a external device. I can go directly to the TV via HDMI and still have the dropouts.
> 
> -Kevin


I agree, the description above is sort of like the problem but not really. A reboot is not needed, just rewind a couple of times and the audio works fine; no dropouts.

I sure hope the above wasn't the basis for TiVo trying to solve the audio dropouts you and me, and many others have been having because if it was, they've missed the boat.


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> Interesting as I didn't see that before. Not sure that's what most are experiencing though. The description for that talks about an audio dropout that needs a reboot. I don't need a reboot as it's not a complete dropout.
> 
> Also, my dropouts have nothing to do with a external device. I can go directly to the TV via HDMI and still have the dropouts.
> 
> -Kevin


I think that TiVo is blowing smoke. No reboot fixes this issue. It is much better than before, but it's not related to 20.5.9. The previous update making the audio delay shorter going in and out of TiVo Central helped reduce the dropouts. They now only happen a few times per day for me.


----------



## kbmb

keenanSR said:


> I agree, the description above is sort of like the problem but not really. A reboot is not needed, just rewind a couple of times and the audio works fine; no dropouts.
> 
> I sure hope the above wasn't the basis for TiVo trying to solve the audio dropouts you and me, and many others have been having because if it was, they've missed the boat.


I've had a similar experience to what you are saying with rewind a couple of times and they usually go away. We've had decent luck with this method - decent enough that we can get through shows usually. If it happens again later in the show, we rewind that block until it goes away and that fixes it for a while.

-Kevin


----------



## CloudAtlas

kbmb said:


> Interesting as I didn't see that before. Not sure that's what most are experiencing though. The description for that talks about an audio dropout that needs a reboot. I don't need a reboot as it's not a complete dropout.
> 
> Also, my dropouts have nothing to do with a external device. I can go directly to the TV via HDMI and still have the dropouts.
> 
> -Kevin


I have the exact same audio problem as you do with TiVo Roamio watching Netflix connected directly via HDMI to TV. Originally I thought the occasional dropouts were due to bleeping out what was said with silence - as if edited out for cursing or legal reason as it was the documentary "Making a Murderer".

But while watching "ESPN 30 for 30: '85 Bears" I realized my theory might be wrong and so I rewound. When I played back the video the audio dropout was in a different location.

In both cases the boxes were connected via MoCA which is always rock solid. User @shoman1994 started the thread "*Netflix Audio dropouts*" on forums.tivo.com https://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=11276929#e11276929 and said they are working on it.


----------



## clark_kent

FYI

I had a Roamio that exhibited audio dropouts on one of my wife's favorite shows, The Voice. She got more and more upset with each season. I told her if we upgraded to a Bolt, the audio dropouts would go away. Unfortunately the Bold also has audio dropouts and now I'm in the dog house..

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=539279


----------



## hybucket

jmpage2 said:


> You would have to have access to the TiVo bug report to see exactly what the problem description is and how they claim to have fixed it.
> 
> What I know is that audio dropouts for me (going HDMI from TiVo to Denon and then on to TV) have gotten progressively worse over the past six or so months and some programs now are borderline unwatchable.
> 
> I even switched my TiVo temporarily to PCM audio output but the dropouts still occur. I would have potentially bought the explanation that it was a Comcast issue right up until it started occurring in Netflix material last night.
> 
> I'm about ready to dropkick the Roamio out a nearby window.


I agree with you on all the above. Definitely getting worse...at least on mine.
I tried the PCM audio...no luck. Certainly not a Comcast issue. Don't know about anyone else, but I consider this to be a MAJOR issue. TiVO has previously been pretty good about these things, but they are dropping the ball big-time on this, with foolish workarounds, like re-booting and posting that thing that says the upgrade to .9 will fix the problem. I have that update, and it certainly did NOT. Particularly if it is also an issue with the Bolt. C'mon, guys, this has gotten beyond just an annoyance...let us know when and how this will be remedied, please.


----------



## tampa8

My OTA does not exhibit the audio drop out problem. My neighbor has the Pro he did have it, in his case unplugging the TV to completely reset the handshake, not the Tivo worked.


----------



## lessd

tampa8 said:


> My OTA does not exhibit the audio drop out problem. My neighbor has the Pro he did have it, in his case unplugging the TV to completely reset the handshake, not the Tivo worked.


I have the audio drop out also (on some programs but not others) but I leave the HDTV sound on low, the drop out comes from my surround sound system that is connected to the optical output of the HDTV, the sound is still coming from the HDTV, so I don't know what the problem is. If I rewind, the drop out does not happen at the same point in the program


----------



## OhFiddle

Been having this issue for a while. I thought maybe it was Comcast initially, but noted that the drops were not part of the recording (not there upon replaying). Then thought it might be an issue with my A/V receiver and hdmi. I see no picture disturbance and no change in the A/V receiver display when the audio drops. The drops are very brief... just enough to miss one syllable of dialog, but often happen 15+ times in an hour long show. It is not every show though. I can find no pattern as far as what shows, channels, signal strength, mpeg2 or mpeg4, when they played, etc. Glad to see I am not the only one with the problem, going crazy, or losing my hearing. Some family members say they don't even notice it. Will try PCM audio to see if it helps.


----------



## laria

I have actually not been noticing this lately.  It was really bad for the longest time, too!


----------



## hybucket

Neither have I. I've been my TV speaker volume up a bit so I thought it was that, but maybe not...


----------



## kbmb

laria said:


> I have actually not been noticing this lately.  It was really bad for the longest time, too!


I have also noticed fewer dropouts lately. We did get dropouts right after the 20.5.9 release, so I was a little discouraged it didn't fix anything. But it's been a while since we've had any major dropouts (knock on wood).

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> I have also noticed fewer dropouts lately. We did get dropouts right after the 20.5.9 release, so I was a little discouraged it didn't fix anything. But it's been a while since we've had any major dropouts (knock on wood).
> 
> -Kevin


They still happen. I'd say the frequency has leveled off to about five per day.


----------



## keenanSR

Yep, they definitely still happen.


----------



## lessd

My audio drop out has almost stopped, use to be so bad I would use CC so I would not miss much, for the last month or so it seems fixed for the most part.


----------



## n5pwp

I never noticed this before the 20.5.9 software came out. My experience is that the audio dropouts happen only on the Netflix app. My OTA is OK. I have noticed it on the Amazon Prime app on the Roamio. But, it has problems of its own. I can go to my Roku3 and the same Netflix show plays fine with no audio dropouts. I have concluded that the apps on Tivo just aren't as good as what I get on the Roku so I have abandoned the Plex, Amazon and Netflix apps. Its a bit of a pain to have to switch over to the Roku but it beats having to deal with all of the issues in the Tivo apps. Thank goodness the OTA stuff still works.

Mike


----------



## waterlines

Tivo recently exchanged my Roamio Plus stating its audio dropouts were due to a hardware issue, however, my new Roamio Plus continues to have the same audio dropouts. 

if i REW, or skip back 8s, or pause playback, when playback resumes the audio will drop out for several seconds. in addition, audio will randomly drop out briefly during playback, or even live TV. 

i've swapped out my AVR receiver, HDMI cable, cable card, and the Roamio itself... it's a TiVo problem. this does not occur on my Apple TV or blu-Ray player.

so frustrating. my Premiere worked perfectly before i "upgraded" :^|


----------



## lessd

The audio drop out problem appears random as I never have the audio problem with Netflix, and as of now the Problem for me is almost gone, the only data I have that I have never saw talked about on this Forum, on the audio drop out problem, is that when I left the HDTV volume at a low level I could still hear the audio coming from the TV, it just stopped coming from my surround sound system, I hooked the surround sound system to the HDTV via an optical cable from the HDTV itself as I used the TV to switch the audio between my BD player, my 5 disk DVD player, and TiVo itself.


----------



## waterlines

lessd said:


> The audio drop out problem appears random as I never have the audio problem with Netflix, and as of now the Problem for me is almost gone, the only data I have that I have never saw talked about on this Forum, on the audio drop out problem, is that when I left the HDTV volume at a low level I could still hear the audio coming from the TV, it just stopped coming from my surround sound system, I hooked the surround sound system to the HDTV via an optical cable from the HDTV itself as I used the TV to switch the audio between my BD player, my 5 disk DVD player, and TiVo itself.


i just find it really strange that TiVo claims it's a hardware issue (otherwise, they'd "never heard of it") and yet here's 300+ posts documenting the problem across many different users' setups.


----------



## waterlines

TiVoSupport_Sarah said:


> tivocustomers, can you please provide me a private message with your TiVo service number so that we can investigate this issue?


i would love to add my name to your list, Sarah. however, the forum requires me to have 10 posts before i can send a PM!


----------



## kbmb

waterlines said:


> i would love to add my name to your list, Sarah. however, the forum requires me to have 10 posts before i can send a PM!


We'd be ok with you posting 7 more times just to be able to send her a PM 

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> We'd be ok with you posting 7 more times just to be able to send her a PM
> 
> -Kevin


I'd say there are plenty of threads that someone could post a short message to boost their count. Just click on Main TiVo Forums. Or go to the political threads. This is so much more than just a TiVo Community.

Now please fix the audio.


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I'd say there are plenty of threads that someone could post a short message to boost their count. Just click on Main TiVo Forums. Or go to the political threads. This is so much more than just a TiVo Community.
> 
> Now please fix the audio.


Joe, what? Did you say something? You cut out for a sec 

-Kevin


----------



## hybucket

kbmb said:


> Joe, what? Did you say something? You cut out for a sec
> 
> -Kevin


Cute.


----------



## OhFiddle

I think my audio issue maybe started with the latest update, but it seems to have been fixed for others with it. I've switched the Tivo's audio setting from Dolby to PCM after my last post and have not noticed any audio drops yet, but it hasn't been very long. I do have 5 speakers (front left, right, center, two rears) and am finding the PCM setting does not sound as good and dialogue is less clear. I'm not an audiophile though and don't totally understand all the options in order to get the best sound.

I'm kind of annoyed because I had just upgraded the audio receiver to get one that had HDMI and could handle all the devices I was using better. Shortly after that I got the Roamio Plus, which in some ways negated my need to even get a new receiver since there is so much more built into it than my old Tivo HD. I am also having a few problems with the Roamio playing nice with the receiver. The suggested fixes all involve not using the features that were an "upgrade" from my old receiver. I probably would have been better off still using the old receiver.


----------



## JoeKustra

OhFiddle said:


> I think my audio issue maybe started with the latest update, but it seems to have been fixed for others with it. I've switched the Tivo's audio setting from Dolby to PCM after my last post and have not noticed any audio drops yet, but it hasn't been very long. I do have 5 speakers (front left, right, center, two rears) and am finding the PCM setting does not sound as good and dialogue is less clear. I'm not an audiophile though and don't totally understand all the options in order to get the best sound.


I has been speculated in many posts that the issue is directly related to the DD decoding. It also affects the optical output since it passes the same audio. Only the A/V output is always PCM and I've never heard a dropout when using my headphones.

I also speculate that "stress" seems to either make the problem worse, or make it easier to detect. This "stress" would be crowd noise or background music. Also, the update before 20.5.9 caused the time of "dead air" when going into or out of a menu to reduce the dropouts.

My only observation that hasn't changed is that if I hit the 8 second back button, there is no dropout. End of summary.


----------



## lessd

JoeKustra said:


> .
> 
> My only observation that hasn't changed is that if I hit the 8 second back button, there is no dropout. End of summary.


That worked also for me when I had the dropouts


----------



## kbmb

Awesome....20.6.1 gives me my first ever Netflix dropouts  This used to be limited to cable, but now I get some on Netflix. 

Wonder if TiVo is gonna blame SNR for these?? Bunch of jokers!

-Kevin


----------



## wrkalot

Add me to the list audio drop out issue... Roamio OTA

HDMI to a plasma TV, RCA out of the TV to the surround system, breakout cable to a older non-HDMI TV.

When we lose sound the plasma TV via HDMI we still get sound out of the breakout cable. New HDMI cables (several so far) have not solved the issue.


----------



## dsando

Add me to the list also.

Base Roamio - TWC CableCard w/ TA
20.6.1.RC4
Dolby Digital optical to Bose system.
HDMI to Panasonic projector.

Started for me so long ago I can remember when, but it has been several updates ago. Somewhere around the time they shortened the long drop out when going in and out of the guide/tivo central. 

For me it started as just on cable channels. Now I have it on Cable Channels, viewing recordings from my Roamio OTA, and Netflix. In one version it was so bad in Netflix that I would switch to another device to watch. I keep hoping it will stop with each update. It is a running joke between my wife and myself now. 'Audio drop outs are still there '

I don't post here much, but read a lot. Since 20.6.1.RC4 didn't fix it, I figure this one has gotten bad enough it deserved a post.


----------



## tomhayes

I'm having the issue when I'm using Dolby Digital.

The bad news for me is that some shows sound awful in PCM (2.0), like last night's Goldberg's episode.

Please fix this Tivo.


----------



## brettatk

I've had issues for a very long time with my TiVo Roamio OTA. I always use Dolby Digital, PCM is not an option with my setup. If I pause, FF, REW, etc, the audio will drop out for about 5 seconds. It's a PITA to have to FF then REW every time so the audio is working when the show comes back on. I will say that skipmode has made this bearable but there are still times I have to pause the show during playback. Most definitely a TiVo issue.


----------



## waterlines

brettatk said:


> I've had issues for a very long time with my TiVo Roamio OTA. I always use Dolby Digital, PCM is not an option with my setup. If I pause, FF, REW, etc, the audio will drop out for about 5 seconds. It's a PITA to have to FF then REW every time so the audio is working when the show comes back on. I will say that skipmode has made this bearable but there are still times I have to pause the show during playback. Most definitely a TiVo issue.


my experience exactly.


----------



## waterlines

20.6.1 does NOT fix the problem for me. dropouts persist.


----------



## samccfl99

I think I can smell another update. I do not know why they even made a 20.6. It was not even important enough to display a message about the update itself when the tivo first updated and rebooted. There is Nothing new in this update. Maybe they wanted to recode all their patches and bring the whole 20.5 up to date code-wise. HA! I know all about that, being in a computer banking service bureau for many years in many capacities. Tivo, Inc development has never done a very good job in this area.

I have found that there are always dropouts at times here and there. I guess there could be many reasons for this. Tivo will try to blame your signal first (I know nothing about OTA tivos). I do not play that game with them, nor would I even call them, pretty much about anything, anymore. It could be a hard drive problem, who knows.

I have a Yamaha HDMI A/V. I never had Netflix dropouts. Music Choice has dropouts, but I am sure those are coming from Comcast. All in all, my Roamio Pro has been pretty good since 11/2013. Running well over 95% full most of the time for the last few months (stock 3TB drive). I wonder how long it will last?

I seem to have caught it a couple of times in 20.6.1 that when I REW or backup, that the audio has dropped for a few seconds. Now that is new, thankfully it does not happen very often.

As far as the audio delay going in and out of tivo central that they "fixed" in 20.5.6, well it is much better, but in doing that, they got rid of their "backup routine" and fixed the delay, but the real solution would be to fix the delay all together. You do not hear that delay at all when you are going into the guide from Live TV or playing a recording. It should be able to be done. I thought that it would have been fixed when I changed the XL4 for the RP, but no...

*OOPS, I WENT LONG AGAIN...SORRY...*


----------



## DallasGG

I have a Roamio OTA here and recently noticed the occasional 1 second audio dropouts every 3-5 minutes (using wired internet connection) that other people are also having. Very weird. I can play back the spot where the audio dropout occurred and it's not there the 2nd time I play it. I also watched the same Netflix shows with my Google Nexus Player on the same TV and had no audio dropouts.

C'mon Tivo, please fix this as you can see several other people are having the same problem.

fyi. I tried rebooting my Roamio and the problem still exists. Also, I never had this problem 6 months ago when I was using Netflix more frequently through my Roamio.


----------



## j9omall

I am also having sound issues. I have a Tivo Bolt (Ver 20.6.1.RC14-USC-11-849 with a Suddenlink M-Card). The Tivo is HDMI to Yamaha AV then HDMI to TV, but the sound is generated through the Yamaha sound system. 

The sound drops out when watching cable, I have not noticed a sound issue when streaming over the ethernet. 

So.... TIVO from all the posts there seems to be an issue, I am not alone. What is the fix? I am not the typical user, I am a system integrator for home control systems. This issue needs resolution, clients don't like the sound issue.


----------



## waterlines

j9omall said:


> I am also having sound issues. I have a Tivo Bolt (Ver 20.6.1.RC14-USC-11-849 with a Suddenlink M-Card). The Tivo is HDMI to Yamaha AV then HDMI to TV, but the sound is generated through the Yamaha sound system.
> 
> The sound drops out when watching cable, I have not noticed a sound issue when streaming over the ethernet.
> 
> So.... TIVO from all the posts there seems to be an issue, I am not alone. What is the fix? I am not the typical user, I am a system integrator for home control systems. This issue needs resolution, clients don't like the sound issue.


submit your TSN: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10710839#post10710839

but it's been quite a long while and still no word of a fix. pretty pathetic, really.


----------



## OhFiddle

I was having the Dolby audio drops going from Roamio Plus to a Sony receiver via HDMI. Switching the Tivo to output PCM instead of Dolby made it stop, although the sound was not very good. After we got updated from 20.5.9 to 20.6.1.RC14, I tried switching it back to output Dolby audio and have not heard a single drop since. I think it has been 2-3 weeks now... I can't recall exactly when it updated?

That update also seems to have fixed the flickering "my shows" list, and added skip mode for the mpeg4 channels. I also think it may have fixed the issue with streaming via the Tivo website to computers on our network... which was so choppy it was usually unwatchable before. I haven't used it a whole lot lately to definitively say that is fixed, but it does seem vastly improved since the update so far.

I did have one Tivo lockup that required a reboot since the update, but for the most part I have been happy with it. Sorry to the folks still having audio drops. It is annoying. I just wanted to add something positive about the update, since I usually just post when things aren't working right.


----------



## laria

I was having the dropouts really bad and I posted back in April that I hadn't been noticing them anymore. I'm not sure exactly when they stopped, I guess sometime in mid-April, but they were really bad for many months. And now it's been so long that I had them regularly that I think there was one in a show I was watching on Netflix the other day and I didn't even really realize "oh it's that damn audio dropout bug again..." My brain processed it as something got bleeped, which makes no sense as it was in the middle of an old network show. 

Sorry for the people who are still experiencing them regularly.


----------



## JoeKustra

laria said:


> Sorry for the people who are still experiencing them regularly.


Me too. Mine haven't changed at all. I'm using headphones a lot recently and since they're PCM, no dropouts. But no change in normal DD audio.


----------



## waterlines

still experiencing the audio dropouts here :^(


----------



## JoeKustra

Same, or perhaps a bit worse.


----------



## lessd

JoeKustra said:


> Same, or perhaps a bit worse.


No drop outs on the network news last night, but many audio drop outs on FOX last night.


----------



## Joe3

lessd said:


> No drop outs on the network news last night, but many audio drop outs on FOX last night.


Thanks, I needed that


----------



## keenanSR

About the same here, though, somewhat hard to say as I don't watch much regular TV this time of the year.


----------



## Lurker1

I get audio dropouts only on Netflix, never OTA. And, it seems to be program specific. For example, the Africa series is very bad, many dropouts per hour. On the other hand, the Orange is the New Black series never drops out.


----------



## JoeKustra

Lurker1 said:


> I get audio dropouts only on Netflix, never OTA. And, it seems to be program specific. For example, the Africa series is very bad, many dropouts per hour. On the other hand, the Orange is the New Black series never drops out.


I have always felt that a more "active" screen make the unit work harder. Sports and outdoor scenes seem the worst. Something quiet, like a studio have fewer. I tend to watch news programs in real time and the crawl might be making the data stream more active.

Sports or something with music is the worst. A dropout when it's quiet can be missed. Put in the background noise from a football game and it shows up quickly.


----------



## DallasGG

I was getting a lot of audio dropouts with my Roamio OTA a couple of months ago. About a week ago I decided to try Netflix through the Roamio and the audio dropouts have magically stopped completely. I didn't change anything with the connections to/from my Roamio.

Does anyone know if Tivo made any changes to remedy the audio dropouts through Netflix? Are other people still getting these audio dropouts?


----------



## Lurker1

DallasGG said:


> I was getting a lot of audio dropouts with my Roamio OTA a couple of months ago. About a week ago I decided to try Netflix through the Roamio and the audio dropouts have magically stopped completely. I didn't change anything with the connections to/from my Roamio.
> 
> Does anyone know if Tivo made any changes to remedy the audio dropouts through Netflix? Are other people still getting these audio dropouts?


I get Netflix audio dropouts a lot. I think it depends on what program you watch. It might also depend on how long it has been since you rebooted your TiVo. It might also depend on what other activity is happening in the background on your TiVo. It is really hard to pin down.

Sometimes I think it has gone away, but then it comes back. I finally got fed up with it and ordered a Roku.


----------



## laria

I hadn't been having problems for a while, but now I'm watching the latest episodes of _The Night Shift_ and suddenly it's back and really bad.  I was hoping it had gotten fixed.


----------



## Lurker1

Lurker1 said:


> Sometimes I think it has gone away, but then it comes back. I finally got fed up with it and ordered a Roku.


FYI, Netflix sound on Roku is absolutely pristine on all programs at all times. Not only are the dropouts gone, but the lip sync is much improved too. I now wish I hadn't struggled with TiVo for so long.


----------



## steff3

laria said:


> I hadn't been having problems for a while, but now I'm watching the latest episodes of _The Night Shift_ and suddenly it's back and really bad.  I was hoping it had gotten fixed.


Noticed the same thing. .recorded via OTA


----------



## keenanSR

Both Killjoys and Dark Matter had dropouts for me last night. I'm really tired of this, if TiVo does actually release another DVR, I seriously doubt I'll be buying it unless there's some response to this issue. I'm so annoyed with it I've been using alternative sources to watch some of my favorite shows.

My guess is that they can't fix it and that's why there's been little to no communication about the issue for some time now.


----------



## philhu

I am still thinking the dropouts are record error on the digital streams

I have a dvr from cable company and 2 tivos

I watched the same thing happen on ALL 3 units at same time 

So I think it is digital stream dropouts. Not tivo problems

If u have any analog channels, go to them and you won't see the dropouts


----------



## waterlines

philhu said:


> I am still thinking the dropouts are record error on the digital streams
> 
> I have a dvr from cable company and 2 tivos
> 
> I watched the same thing happen on ALL 3 units at same time
> 
> So I think it is digital stream dropouts. Not tivo problems
> 
> If u have any analog channels, go to them and you won't see the dropouts


not in my experience.


----------



## philhu

What does that mean?

Are you seeing it on analog?
Is it happenning on multiple channels but not others?

I see it in cable dvr and tivo. I am very positive it is in the stream, not the tivo


----------



## laria

If it was the channel stream, then why would going back fix the issue? When these dropouts happen, if you go back, they are gone and you can hear what was missed.


----------



## philhu

Do you ever hear them on recorded shows?


----------



## laria

philhu said:


> Do you ever hear them on recorded shows?


Yes... I don't watch live tv. Every time I have heard the dropouts, they have been in recorded shows or Netflix.


----------



## philhu

Ok. So it is recorded from the digital stream
So the dropout is in the stream. Thats what i said


----------



## laria

philhu said:


> Ok. So it is recorded from the digital stream
> So the dropout is in the stream. Thats what i said


But if you go back, like use the 7 second back button, and play the part again, the audio is there.


----------



## philhu

I bet it is error correction. The raw stream is what is recorded

Do you notice any video corruption too?


----------



## JoeKustra

laria said:


> But if you go back, like use the 7 second back button, and play the part again, the audio is there.


My symptom. Never a dropout on Amazon or any recording.


----------



## waterlines

philhu said:


> What does that mean?
> 
> Are you seeing it on analog?
> Is it happenning on multiple channels but not others?
> 
> I see it in cable dvr and tivo. I am very positive it is in the stream, not the tivo


what i mean is explained below perfectly...



laria said:


> If it was the channel stream, then why would going back fix the issue? When these dropouts happen, if you go back, they are gone and you can hear what was missed.





JoeKustra said:


> My symptom. Never a dropout on Amazon or any recording.


----------



## JoeKustra

waterlines said:


> what i mean is explained below perfectly...


Reading the first post in this thread might help. There has been a change since last October. When 20.5.9 was released, the time needed to go from most menus to full screen was reduced. Then the audio issues reduced, with the bad ones almost gone (except on a Mini), and the not so bad ones becoming less frequent.

I still have a Premiere: no problems. I use headphones from the A/V connector: no problem (always PCM).


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> My symptom. Never a dropout on Amazon or any recording.


When you say recording what do you mean exactly? All cable/OTA TV watched on a TiVo is a recording so I'm unsure what you mean.

I myself have never had any dropouts on the OTT services like Netflix or Amazon, it's always on the Comcast-fed channels.


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> When you say recording what do you mean exactly? All cable/OTA TV watched on a TiVo is a recording so I'm unsure what you mean.
> 
> I myself have never had any dropouts on the OTT services like Netflix or Amazon, it's always on the Comcast-fed channels.


I hesitate to use "live" TV since, like you said, everything is buffered by the disk. I like to say "real time" since there is no intentional delay other that the hardware needed for the buffering or to send the content to my Mini.

Recorded is content that does not use a tuner and is stored on the same hard disk. I never have dropouts on recorded content or from an internet streamed source.

When I go back a few seconds, the dropout is not there.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I hesitate to use "live" TV since, like you said, everything is buffered by the disk. I like to say "real time" since there is no intentional delay other that the hardware needed for the buffering or to send the content to my Mini.
> 
> Recorded is content that does not use a tuner and is stored on the same hard disk. I never have dropouts on recorded content or from an internet streamed source.
> 
> When I go back a few seconds, the dropout is not there.


So if you wait until a show is completely recorded before watching it you never have any dropouts? But when you watch while it's still recording, that's when the dropouts happen? Or is it if you watch "live/real-time" TV, regardless of whether you're recording that particular show or not, you never have dropouts?


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> So if you wait until a show is completely recorded before watching it you never have any dropouts? But when you watch while it's still recording, that's when the dropouts happen? Or is it if you watch "live/real-time" TV, regardless of whether you're recording that particular show or not, you never have dropouts?


I have never watched a recording in progress, so I can't answer that. I usually record prime time and watch it during the weekend. I record late night and watch it during the next day. Usually during the day I am watching real time, mostly MSNBC, CNBC, CNN, The Weather Channel, and the occasional HDNET Movie. I don't get premium channels. All channels are HD and DD 5.1 except CNN which is sometimes DD EX. A long while back I did have some noise on my CBS channel and there were video and audio glitches, but that is over. My feed is really good after the last rebuild. My basic Roamios never show errors. My basic Premieres do, but not a lot. While watching a recording I have never had an audio dropout that wasn't part of the recording and those always with a video blocking error.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I have never watched a recording in progress, so I can't answer that. I usually record prime time and watch it during the weekend. I record late night and watch it during the next day. Usually during the day I am watching real time, mostly MSNBC, CNBC, CNN, The Weather Channel, and the occasional HDNET Movie. I don't get premium channels. All channels are HD and DD 5.1 except CNN which is sometimes DD EX. A long while back I did have some noise on my CBS channel and there were video and audio glitches, but that is over. My feed is really good after the last rebuild. My basic Roamios never show errors. My basic Premieres do, but not a lot. While watching a recording I have never had an audio dropout that wasn't part of the recording and those always with a video blocking error.


Last rebuild?

So, just to reset my feeble brain, when is it that do you have the dropouts?


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> Last rebuild?
> 
> So, just to reset my feeble brain, when is it that do you have the dropouts?


My feed ran all new cables early last year. It also gave me 16x4 internet and no slow dawn during peak use times. That's what I meant by rebuild.

Dropouts happen only during watching real time TV when the channel is using DD 5.1 or better. I spend some time with headphones this time of year and since they are PCM I detect no dropouts. I does seem that there are more dropouts when the audio is from sports (crowd noise) or a music background. Or maybe that just means I detect them easier. I almost never see a dropout bad enough to make the LED indicators on my AVR flicker. Feeding the AVR audio with optical from the TiVo makes no difference.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> My feed ran all new cables early last year. It also gave me 16x4 internet and no slow dawn during peak use times. That's what I meant by rebuild.
> 
> Dropouts happen only during watching real time TV when the channel is using DD 5.1 or better. I spend some time with headphones this time of year and since they are PCM I detect no dropouts. I does seem that there are more dropouts when the audio is from sports (crowd noise) or a music background. Or maybe that just means I detect them easier. I almost never see a dropout bad enough to make the LED indicators on my AVR flicker. Feeding the AVR audio with optical from the TiVo makes no difference.


That's something I've always found curious about this dropout issue as well, my AVR(Denon X4000) never "blinks" either when there's a dropout. Optical makes no difference here also.


----------



## laria

I am not sure what audio I use, whatever is the default. But there is never any video blocking during them, only audio cutout. They don't happen as frequently on Netflix as they do during broadcast recordings, but they do happen sometimes. 

I had thought they were gone because I had had terrible problems with it over the winter, mostly on ABC, but by the time spring rolled around I realized they had pretty much gone away. At least gone enough that I didn't notice them anymore until these recent NBC recordings.


----------



## Lurker1

Reading all these comments is interesting. It sounds like we are all describing different problems and different symptoms related to audio dropouts.

In my case, I don't hear dropouts in any live or recorded TV, only on Netflix. Furthermore, I don't hear dropouts in any Netflix originals I have watched. I do hear dropouts frequently on many other programs on Netflix. For example, the "Africa" series by BBC is horrible, at least 100 dropouts per hour throughout the series. This seems to indicate there is some difference in how the audio is encoded in different programs, some of which TiVo does not handle correctly. The same programs played on Roku sound perfect.


----------



## lessd

Lurker1 said:


> Reading all these comments is interesting. It sounds like we are all describing different problems and different symptoms related to audio dropouts.
> 
> In my case, I don't hear dropouts in any live or recorded TV, only on Netflix. Furthermore, I don't hear dropouts in any Netflix originals I have watched. I do hear dropouts frequently on many other programs on Netflix. For example, the "Africa" series by BBC is horrible, at least 100 dropouts per hour throughout the series. This seems to indicate there is some difference in how the audio is encoded in different programs, some of which TiVo does not handle correctly. The same programs played on Roku sound perfect.


Very true, many of us have the drop outs but not in any consistent way, as I have them now on some HBO and network programs but almost never on Netflix, but some times my Netflix has bad dropouts for a given evening, the next time I watch no dropouts.


----------



## HerronScott

keenanSR said:


> Both Killjoys and Dark Matter had dropouts for me last night. I'm really tired of this, if TiVo does actually release another DVR, I seriously doubt I'll be buying it unless there's some response to this issue. I'm so annoyed with it I've been using alternative sources to watch some of my favorite shows.


FYI, I watched Killjoys last night and no audio dropouts here. Comcast cable with a Roamio Pro feeding the audio through an older Onkyo receiver through an optical connection with a 5.1 speaker setup. I don't think that I've ever had one on either cable, Netflix or Amazon which wasn't due to some kind of transmission data glitch (which is rare).

You have to wonder what the difference is and why it's so bad for some and others don't have the issue. I really do hope they find some fix for you considering how long it's been going on.

Scott


----------



## JoeKustra

HerronScott said:


> FYI, I watched Killjoys last night and no audio dropouts here. Comcast cable with a Roamio Pro feeding the audio through an older Onkyo receiver through an optical connection with a 5.1 speaker setup. I don't think that I've ever had one on either cable, Netflix or Amazon which wasn't due to some kind of transmission data glitch (which is rare).
> 
> You have to wonder what the difference is and why it's so bad for some and others don't have the issue. I really do hope they find some fix for you considering how long it's been going on.
> 
> Scott


For me, the issue is nowhere as bad as it used to be. I get maybe one dropout every few hours. Now, my viewing habits are pretty static. And some days are better than others. In the beginning it was bad all the time. Now I tend to almost forget it's there. I'm really not looking for a fix either. My feeling is that what ever chip does the audio decoding is not very programmable. I just don't know. I never saw a post from a Bolt user, so I think that reflects on the change with the Bolt hardware. Maybe I should say it's a change in the Roamio hardware to be more accurate. Anyhow, I'm not mad anymore. I could have Comcast.


----------



## keenanSR

HerronScott said:


> FYI, I watched Killjoys last night and no audio dropouts here. Comcast cable with a Roamio Pro feeding the audio through an older Onkyo receiver through an optical connection with a 5.1 speaker setup. I don't think that I've ever had one on either cable, Netflix or Amazon which wasn't due to some kind of transmission data glitch (which is rare).
> 
> You have to wonder what the difference is and why it's so bad for some and others don't have the issue. I really do hope they find some fix for you considering how long it's been going on.
> 
> Scott


Yes, sometimes it can be hard to tell whether it's a feed glitch or something local with your hardware. I went back and re-ran those segments on Killjoys and it did the same thing every time so I'm confident it was in the data from Comcast, I think. I was just annoyed that it was there at all, in fact, even though I've been watching less TV lately, the dropouts do seem to be less than they have in the past but that's really just a guess as I haven't kept close track of how many times it happens.

I did a test last night on Murder in the First, there was a dropout at around the 31 min mark. It did it every time I replayed it. I transferred the show to my computer via kmttg and ran VRD QuickSteam fix on and then played it back via my Oppo 103D and it played perfectly. I then transferred it again with no QSF and played that section via the Oppo and not only was the dropout there I also got some video breakup. So, was it in the original feed from Comcast, was the corruption created by the TiVo and then fixed by VRD or is the Oppo just better at handling questionable data after it's been "repaired"? I don't know, I do know the Oppo has the better video processing than either the TiVo or my Samsung plasma display.

I also have a Silicon Dust HDHomeRun CableCARD tuner and I'm going to start recording several of my regular shows with it and then compare those recordings with the TiVo recordings and see what happens with regard to these dropouts.


----------



## wish_bgr

I've experienced the audio dropping out, and thought it was a censor-out during the broadcast. I then noticed it would happen at certain time marks; every :15 or :45 into the show. I tend to watch a lot of real-time broadcasting, taking advantage of the 30 minute buffering so I can catch up. I would let it pass, thinking it would fix itself if I rewound or instant replay back; no dice, as the audio definitely dropped out.

What spurred me to call in to TiVo Customer Care/Support was the major pixelation in conjunction to the audio dropping earlier this morning. And it was noticed on any NBC network; NBC, Bravo, E and USA. I know my area is either undergoing the network upgrades (SF Bay Area here) and it couldn't have happened at a worst time, with the Rio Olympics starting.

I tried online chat first... given the scripted options of powering off by pulling the power cord, and then advised swapping the HDMI cables. I did mention I've tried both options and was given the advisory to call into the customer service center. Assigned a case number, which I gave to the phone advisor and quickly diagnosed that it was a device problem, and that it needs to be repaired/swapped for repair.

Sigh. I did note that the area I'm at was undergoing major cable service upgrades, but it didn't seem to matter. I could send in for repair or work a swap out of Roamio Pros. 

Not wanting to send out nor lock up funds on a quick swap out, I asked to keep the options open for now, and that I would try pulling the power for reset troubleshoot.

It's about an hour or so that I did it, and so far I haven't noticed anything. I tend to run about 85% full on the saved recordings but diligently removing things that I hoard-saved on my Roamio. Hopefully this solved the audio/pixel problem, otherwise I might take up the option to swap out devices.


----------



## waterlines

if i rewind, fast-forward, skip back 8s, skip ahead 30s, or pause playback, then the audio will consistently drop out for several seconds. just the audiovideo is unaffected. 

this happens on both live TV and recorded programs. it doesn't happen on Netflix via the a Roamio at all. and it NEVER happens when using any apps via my Apple TV 4 (nor the ATV 2 and 3 that preceded it).

my Roamio Plus is connected via HDMI to a quite new Harman Kardon AVR2700 receiver.

also of note is that i NEVER experienced this issue with my old Premiere unit. when i got the Roamio, and began experiencing these dropouts, i replaced my cablecard, replaced my HDMI cables, replaced my receiver, and even swapped out the Roamio for a new unit... nothing has remedied the audio dropouts but i have eliminated every other possibility and conclusively determined that the problem is with the Roamio itself.


----------



## Agrajag

Same problem for me with Netflix. I just bought my Roamio and thought I'd found the perfect device. Oh well. Netflix via PC on the same hardware has no such issues. Netflix via Roku on the same hardware has no such issues. This is a Sony VPL-HW40ES projector and a Yamaha Aventage A740 receiver. Neither are slouches. 

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


----------



## loephatt

Happy to have found this thread.

Roamio Pro, on the Bekeley CA head end. 

Drop outs happening frequently, randomly on live or recorded.

Someone mentioned Killjoys - we experienced at least two drop outs during the recording.

I have long ago attenuated the hot signal with a 6dB attenuator. I run 87-90% signal and mid thirties S/N. I do this ONLY to shunt the robotic, script driven level one support drones.

The drop out issue really sucks.


----------



## laria

I have been watching a lot of recordings in progress this week with the Olympics. It's a lot worse than it has been in a long time, every few seconds. Very frustrating.


----------



## waterlines

laria said:


> I have been watching a lot of recordings in progress this week with the Olympics. It's a lot worse than it has been in a long time, every few seconds. Very frustrating.


same here. outrageously bad.


----------



## dobie_gillis

I only have the audio drops using Netflix but it occurs on both my Roamio and Mini. I'm using a MoCa network and was planning to test if it stopped when I disabled the MoCa and wired the Mini directly with ethernet. Can anyone comment on this idea?


----------



## Lurker1

dobie_gillis said:


> I only have the audio drops using Netflix but it occurs on both my Roamio and Mini. I'm using a MoCa network and was planning to test if it stopped when I disabled the MoCa and wired the Mini directly with ethernet. Can anyone comment on this idea?


I was always connected direct to ethernet, and I got horrible dropouts on many Netflix programs (several per minute throughout the program).


----------



## JoeKustra

This might be clouding the problem, but there are three threads, one Roamio, one Bolt and one Mini, specifically focused on Netflix and audio dropouts. Maybe everybody with that issue could concentrate their posts there? Can't hurt.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10764467#post10764467

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10902509#post10902509

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10765685#post10765685

A thread for everyone.


----------



## dobie_gillis

JoeKustra said:


> This might be clouding the problem, but there are three threads, one Roamio, one Bolt and one Mini, specifically focused on Netflix and audio dropouts. Maybe everybody with that issue could concentrate their posts there? Can't hurt.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10764467#post10764467
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10902509#post10902509
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10765685#post10765685
> 
> A thread for everyone.


Seems silly to have to post in 2 threads...I have a mini and a roamio with exact same problem.

Tried turning off MoCa last night but still got audio drops on Netflix via the Roamio.


----------



## JoeKustra

dobie_gillis said:


> Seems silly to have to post in 2 threads...I have a mini and a roamio with exact same problem.
> 
> Tried turning off MoCa last night but still got audio drops on Netflix via the Roamio.


I have a Mini and Roamio with the same problem and don't subscribe to Netflix. I don't have audio dropouts with Amazon or with recorded content. Both my Mini and Roamio use a different wireless media bridge.


----------



## ELPHILLIPS

Roamio Plus here. My third TiVo over the last 9 years. After reading many posts here, no question in my mind the drop out problem is in the Dolby Digital circuitry of the TiVo.
Note that video is not affected. Emailed this problem to TiVo some time ago and received a response like "the problem must be in one of your other components". Very frustrating.


----------



## waterlines

ELPHILLIPS said:


> Roamio Plus here. My third TiVo over the last 9 years. After reading many posts here, no question in my mind the drop out problem is in the Dolby Digital circuitry of the TiVo.
> Note that video is not affected. Emailed this problem to TiVo some time ago and received a response like "the problem must be in one of your other components". Very frustrating.


Amen and Hallelujah, brother. totally unacceptable for TiVo to try passing the buck on their own problems.

this is a serious issue that TiVo refuses to take seriously, and it's inexcusable on both counts.


----------



## jmpage2

ELPHILLIPS said:


> Roamio Plus here. My third TiVo over the last 9 years. After reading many posts here, no question in my mind the drop out problem is in the Dolby Digital circuitry of the TiVo.
> Note that video is not affected. Emailed this problem to TiVo some time ago and received a response like "the problem must be in one of your other components". Very frustrating.


It's annoying enough that I finally broke down and purchased an appletv for Netflix viewing. TiVo clearly never going to fix this problem.

Yesterday my Roamio spontaneously rebooted. Probably going to look towards cutting the cord next summer and finally put the tivos out to pasture.


----------



## waterlines

jmpage2 said:


> It's annoying enough that I finally broke down and purchased an appletv for Netflix viewing. TiVo clearly never going to fix this problem.
> 
> Yesterday my Roamio spontaneously rebooted. Probably going to look towards cutting the cord next summer and finally put the tivos out to pasture.


i actually just got a new TV 4 (64GB) a couple weeks ago and i'm really enjoying it. it's super fast and pushes multi-channel PCM audio which sounds great on my system. can't wait to install the new tvOS this fall.

HDMI CEC support is also a great addition. now i just have the TiVo Slide Pro and TV remotes; AVR automatically switches to TV input when you click its remote and i can switch back to TiVo with the learned INPUT button on the Slide. will soon be installing a HomeKit-compatible Lutron dimmer/hub so i can dim/control lighting with Siri. pretty slick. i can live with a 2 remote media center.

with a fast-closing window on its business model/value proposition, TiVo can't afford to let this shameful audio dropout problem persist much longer. if they're not absolutely _nailing_ the user experience they're just quickening the cord-cutting and will suffer the consequences along with the cable companies. NO ONE takes TiVo seriously as a streaming/app box. they gotta either get the CATV UX spot-on perfect or prepare for bankruptcy.


----------



## Lurker1

jmpage2 said:


> It's annoying enough that I finally broke down and purchased an appletv for Netflix viewing. TiVo clearly never going to fix this problem.


I, too, got sick and tired of TiVo constantly ruining my Netflix experience, so I broke down and purchased a Roku for Netflix, and couldn't be happier. My audio is now perfect, and the seemingly infinite selection of streaming channels is a nice bonus.


----------



## waterlines

Lurker1 said:


> I, too, got sick and tired of TiVo constantly ruining my Netflix experience, so I broke down and purchased a Roku for Netflix, and couldn't be happier. My audio is now perfect, and the seemingly infinite selection of streaming channels is a nice bonus.


are you listening, TiVo? your crap software is basically showing customers to the door.


----------



## NashGuy

JoeKustra said:


> This might be clouding the problem, but there are three threads, one Roamio, one Bolt and one Mini, specifically focused on Netflix and audio dropouts. Maybe everybody with that issue could concentrate their posts there? Can't hurt.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10764467#post10764467
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10902509#post10902509
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10765685#post10765685
> 
> A thread for everyone.


I do wonder if the audio drop-out problems for live/recorded TV and Netflix are unrelated bugs. I experienced TV drop-outs a number of times last year but then the problem went away and I don't think I've noticed it at all this year. OTOH, I never had the drop-outs on Netflix until late this spring or early summer and when they occurred, they were worse (more frequent, slightly longer drop-outs) than what I had experienced with live/recorded OTA TV. After it happened maybe three times on Netflix, I just switched totally to the Netflix app on my Apple TV, so no idea if the problem remains on my TiVo.


----------



## keenanSR

I just checked my account page at TiVo.com to see if there had been any response from TiVo regarding the support ticket I put in about this problem and it said "waiting for customer response" and that was back in Feb. 

I have next to zero faith this issue is ever going to be fixed, I think at this point it's something they simply can't fix.


----------



## JoeKustra

NashGuy said:


> I do wonder if the audio drop-out problems for live/recorded TV and Netflix are unrelated bugs. I experienced TV drop-outs a number of times last year but then the problem went away and I don't think I've noticed it at all this year. OTOH, I never had the drop-outs on Netflix until late this spring or early summer and when they occurred, they were worse (more frequent, slightly longer drop-outs) than what I had experienced with live/recorded OTA TV. After it happened maybe three times on Netflix, I just switched totally to the Netflix app on my Apple TV, so no idea if the problem remains on my TiVo.


Sorry, I don't have Netflix. I do have Amazon, and never have any audio problems. I never have an audio problem with recorded TV. As for real time TV, I get two or three per day. I can live with that. It was much worse.


----------



## waterlines

ELPHILLIPS said:


> Roamio Plus here. My third TiVo over the last 9 years. After reading many posts here, no question in my mind the drop out problem is in the Dolby Digital circuitry of the TiVo.
> Note that video is not affected. Emailed this problem to TiVo some time ago and received a response like "the problem must be in one of your other components". Very frustrating.


i've given up on TiVo fixing this issue. i agree entirely that the issue stems from TiVo's Dolby Digital circuitry/signal processing. as you say, video is never affected; just DD audio. so i've now switched my TiVo to PCM audio and, voilà, audio dropouts are no more.

thankfully my HK receiver has Logic 7 sound processingwhich transforms PCM to make all cable TV content (movies, shows, news programs) sound very, very, very good. dialogue via the center channel is actually a VAST improvement over DD, in fact.


----------



## laria

I'll need to look at switching the audio if I continue to have problems. I am back to watching older recorded content from earlier this year, so I'm not hearing them anymore, but it was truly terrible during the Olympic coverage.

We don't even have full surround sound so maybe I won't even notice anything? We only have 2 front speakers and a center channel.


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## viper46024602

this is definitely a TiVo issue

I have an amazon fire and direct tv as well

the drops outs on Netflix never occur on the amazon fire

if I link to TiVo to Netflix the dropouts start right away

TiVo has known of this for more than a year 

what do u plan to do TiVo


----------



## patrickthickey

Roamio Pro, audio dropouts happen regularly on live and recorded material.

Diagnostics steps:

* Tivo HDMI to Samsung LCD, Samsung optical output to Marin Logan sound bar optical input. _Audio dropouts._. Toggle Tivo Audio output Dolby setting (Dolby or PCM), same on either - _audio dropouts._

* Tivo optical output to Martin Logan sound bar optical input. _Audio dropouts._ Toggle Tivo Audio output Dolby setting (Dolby or PCM), same on either - _audio dropouts._

* stream Netflix from the Tivo using the Optical output of the Samsung to the optical input of the Martin Logan sound bar - _no audio issues whatsoever._

* stream Netflix from the Tivo using the Optical output of the Tivo to the optical input of the Martin Logan sound bar - _no audio issues whatsoever._

* stream Netflix from the Samsung (not the Tivo) using the Optical output of the Samsung to the optical input of the Martin Logan sound bar - _no audio issues whatsoever._

I have seen some assert the issue is the Dolby digital output of the Tivo. In my instance that is not true as PCM behaves exactly the same way.

To my untrained ears, the issue is in the Tivo as it handles the audio, any audio that is derived from having recorded a COMCAST signal or that of playing that signal live from COMCAST.

Sigh.


----------



## kbmb

For the first time in a while, we had audio dropouts last night on The Middle.

-Kevin


----------



## hybucket

kbmb said:


> For the first time in a while, we had audio dropouts last night on The Middle.
> 
> -Kevin


Same here..both recored content and live. Sporadic but intense when it happens. Obviously a problem TiVo will never address.
.


----------



## JoeKustra

hybucket said:


> Same here..both recored content and live. Sporadic but intense when it happens. Obviously a problem TiVo will never address.
> .


I agree, it will never get fixed. I still get two or three per day. Every day.


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## hybucket

A crude workaround I use involves leaving the TV audio at a barely audible level with the main audio from my receiver. Most times, I only notice a dropout by a blinking display on the receiver. TIVO needs to recognize this issue in their "small print" disclaimers.


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## JoeKustra

PCM instead of Dolby When Switching to Bolt+

The lady is looking for beta testers. Add your TSN.


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## hybucket

What lady? Any one in particular?


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> PCM instead of Dolby When Switching to Bolt+
> 
> The lady is looking for beta testers. Add your TSN.


Doesn't sound like the same issue. Would have been more encouraging if she posted in this thread.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

hybucket said:


> What lady? Any one in particular?


TiVoMargret

I'll test anything if it fixes this problem.


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## zubinh

On Verizon Fios in NY and experiencing audio dropouts on the Music Choice Channels only. Usually one every 3-4 minutes


----------



## JoeKustra

zubinh said:


> On Verizon Fios in NY and experiencing audio dropouts on the Music Choice Channels only. Usually one every 3-4 minutes


And it's not there when you rewind & play again? That's a new one for me since those music channels are usually DD2.0.


----------



## kbmb

zubinh said:


> On Verizon Fios in NY and experiencing audio dropouts on the Music Choice Channels only. Usually one every 3-4 minutes


We get the same here on Comcast.



JoeKustra said:


> And it's not there when you rewind & play again? That's a new one for me since those music channels are usually DD2.0.


Can't remember if we've tried that. Usually it's my wife listening if she's working from home.

-Kevin


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> We get the same here on Comcast.
> Can't remember if we've tried that. Usually it's my wife listening if she's working from home.
> -Kevin


I can't believe it's been a year. I place dropouts into three categories:
Netflix
Are present when you rewind
Not present when you do a rewind.

Two things that make them most notable: sports, with the background noise and music. Maybe I'll checkout those 40 music channels I get since I never have a dropout with Pandora.


----------



## kbmb

JoeKustra said:


> I can't believe it's been a year. I place dropouts into three categories:
> Netflix
> Are present when you rewind
> Not present when you do a rewind.
> 
> Two things that make them most notable: sports, with the background noise and music. Maybe I'll checkout those 40 music channels I get since I never have a dropout with Pandora.


A year with no end it sight 

We went most of the summer with very few dropouts. Sure enough, as the fall TV season came back, we started to get the dropouts again. I'm sure this is mostly because there are fewer shows on in the summer months.

Wife used to work from home on Friday's and she'd get those dropouts on the music channels quite often. Pretty sure at one point I rewound and it didn't have the dropout, but honestly can't remember.

-Kevin


----------



## ogre73

Hi everyone,
Just want to get in on this because I have been experiencing the same issue for over a year now.
First off, my setup: Comcast cable (based out of New Hampshire) comes into the Roamio straight from the cable modem, HDMI cable from the Tivo to a Yamaha AVR, and out to a Sony LCD. I don't even know what my TV speakers sound like! My house and all wiring is only 7 years old, and I have never seen an issue with the video.
Been getting the audio drop outs for over a year, and noticed a new thing last year with NBCs "The Voice". The sound on almost every episode comes out almost as if it can't be sent to the AVR with enough bandwidth. The audio seems "clipped" would be the best way for me to describe it. Makes it hard to watch/listen.
Hopefully this is something Tivo takes notice of. I admit, I only read about 5 pages of this thread before posting. Sorry!
Jim


----------



## headless chicken

No audio after 20.6.3 upgrade. Tivo is connected to soundbar via HDMI >> soundbar to TV via HDMI.

Solution is powercycle, but this keeps happening. Ridiculous.


----------



## JoeKustra

kbmb said:


> A year with no end it sight
> -Kevin


Doesn't seem fixed with 20.6.3 either.


----------



## JoeKustra

ogre73 said:


> Hi everyone,
> Just want to get in on this because I have been experiencing the same issue for over a year now.
> First off, my setup: Comcast *cable (based out of New Hampshire) comes into the Roamio straight from the cable modem*, HDMI cable from the Tivo to a Yamaha AVR, and out to a Sony LCD.
> Jim


If that's true there may be a problem. The cable modem output is for the internet. The cable should split with one leg going to the cable modem and one leg for everything else.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> Doesn't seem fixed with 20.6.3 either.


No, it doesn't seem as if it's made any difference at all in fact.


----------



## hybucket

keenanSR said:


> No, it doesn't seem as if it's made any difference at all in fact.


Mine had been pretty good for awhile, or at least I wasn't noticing anything. I have my audio through my receiver, but the TV HDMI volume up just a bit as well, to cover the drops. But Monday night's TIMELESS on NBC was brutal.


----------



## keenanSR

The last thing I watched was SNF and it had several dropouts that went away upon rewinding a few times. This is the exact behavior that has been seen all along, and if it's still doing that then the core problem has not been fixed.


----------



## Brian lovato

The audio dropouts are happening across all my channels, happens for 2-3 seconds. Using Bolt with fios cable card for a year now, have not noticed it on the TiVo mini, just on the bolt setup. Any update?


----------



## slowbiscuit

Heard a bunch yesterday on ABC college football, don't know if was the broadcasts or the Roamio though.


----------



## JoeKustra

Brian lovato said:


> The audio dropouts are happening across all my channels, happens for 2-3 seconds. Using Bolt with fios cable card for a year now, have not noticed it on the TiVo mini, just on the bolt setup. Any update?


Your description doesn't match the normal dropout. The word "bolt" appears 47 times in this thread of 420 posts. Some of those are posts indicating the dropouts have stopped (last year). Perhaps you have a different issue? Are you using HDMI to a TV, or a different audio path?

The test: use the 8 second rewind button (above the "A") and see if the audio repeats.


----------



## Brian lovato

Audio still is dropped when you rewind. Using Sony 4K LED, with TiVo bolt and HDMI high speed cable as recommended.


----------



## JoeKustra

Brian lovato said:


> Audio still is dropped when you rewind. Using Sony 4K LED, with TiVo bolt and HDMI high speed cable as recommended.


Then you are lucky since you can repeat the problem. So you start changing parts until you find the part causing the problem. If it's just the HDMI cable, change it. If it's still bad you have a bigger problem than I can fix.


----------



## ogre73

JoeKustra said:


> If that's true there may be a problem. The cable modem output is for the internet. The cable should split with one leg going to the cable modem and one leg for everything else.


Of course, you are correct. Sorry, wrote that while it was late for me. Yes, the input to the Tivo is directly from the splitter. The signal levels are good, I have checked them, and as I said, the cable run is only as old as the house, 7 years.
Funny, as I'm writing this, I am watching "The Voice" recorded on 11/21/2016, and I'm not hearing the breakup that I did the last time.
If I start getting the issue again, I'll be sure to report it here.


----------



## alexb

I get drop outs on my media center and my Comcast X1. My signal strength in 98%. Get them on the TiVo I just got, whatever it is it isn't the devices.....


----------



## bearbig

My OTA TIVO is also experiencing some audio drop out. It is new received and set up 11/28. It so far only seems to happen on one station ( local with the transmitter < 20 miles away). Sometimes there is no sound at all while other times it sort of sputters, for lack of a better description.
My set up is the Roamio, a VIZIO 26' tv and 32" VIZIO sound bar ( connected using the analog tv output to RCA inputs of the sound bar). The HMDI cable used is the one used for the HD TIVO that was replaced ( no sound issues with that unit).


----------



## JoeKustra

I can't be sure, but with 20.6.3 my dropouts are now up to six or seven per day. I hope it's something else.


----------



## HerronScott

Joe,

Still haven't had any here on cable, Amazon Prime or Netflix (optical audio into older Onkyo receiver). Yours are on cable sources or streaming as well? I though Alex's comment above that he also had them with a Comcast X1 interesting.

Scott


----------



## JoeKustra

HerronScott said:


> Joe,
> 
> Still haven't had any here on cable, Amazon Prime or Netflix (optical audio into older Onkyo receiver). Yours are on cable sources or streaming as well? I though Alex's comment above that he also had them with a Comcast X1 interesting.
> 
> Scott


Since day one: only on real time TV. When I watch a recording, any audio problem has an associated video problem and is repeatable. Perhaps related, most of my real time watching is on CNBC, MSNBC, TWC and CNN which all have very busy screens.

This month I have been watching some YouTube. No problems with 1080p.


----------



## JoeKustra

Using 20.7.1.RC2 and, as expected, no change in dropouts. Roamio or Mini. Oh well.


----------



## keenanSR

Yeah, same here. At this point, I'm 100% convinced it's never going to be fixed, at least not for this particular line of equipment. Tivo has probably made the financial decision that it's just not cost effective to fix it. If I'm not mistaken they posted somewhere that they've identified the issue and it that's true and it still hasn't been fixed it means they're not going to fix it.


----------



## jaredmwright

I am having the same problem. This only happens on channel 703 - NBC in the San Francisco Bay Area on Comcast on a Roamio Pro. Strange thing is that it only happens on this one channel and is very consistent on about every recording. It is really annoying and I wonder if it could be a cable card or if it is a software issue? I am running my HDMI through my Denon receiver. 

I have an XL4 that does not have this issue, so it seems related to my Roamio Pro. 

If anyone has any tips I would appreciate it.


----------



## laria

I hadn't seen this in a really long time until watching this week's Scandal on WMUR (809 in the NH area). I had probably a dozen or more of them!


----------



## JoeKustra

This problem started around 10/2015. I first posted then. The dropouts were reduced with 20.5.6.RC21 which also reduced the dead air when switching from no audio (menu) to DD audio. I now get several ever day, maybe two or three. Nothing has changed for me except my TV, but I never use its speakers. Same Roamio, same AVR, same cables.


----------



## keenanSR

jaredmwright said:


> I am having the same problem. This only happens on channel 703 - NBC in the San Francisco Bay Area on Comcast on a Roamio Pro. Strange thing is that it only happens on this one channel and is very consistent on about every recording. It is really annoying and I wonder if it could be a cable card or if it is a software issue? I am running my HDMI through my Denon receiver.
> 
> I have an XL4 that does not have this issue, so it seems related to my Roamio Pro.
> 
> If anyone has any tips I would appreciate it.


I still get random dropouts every viewing period, I've given up any hope that TiVo will ever fix it as it must be a hardware issue and these units are old enough that TiVo is not going to bother putting resources into EOL equipment. When I say hardware issue I mean possibly some chip was flashed with "updated" firmware/software and it broke something that can't be fixed by flashing it back. That's a guess anyhow.

The KNTV audio dropouts are something different, I think. KNTV never used to have these audio issues, in fact, they are the best quality PQ/AQ station in the market and I think they've got something funky going on with their signal lately that's causing the dropouts. I don't think it's the same as the, now normal , TiVo dropouts. I haven't watched much NBC content lately but Friday night's Grimm episode was loaded with them, extremely annoying.


----------



## keenanSR

This is audio dropout issue has basically rendered my Pro, Basic and Mini as unreliable sources when it comes to regular TV. I've been watching the MM games on CBS today and I can go 15-30 mins sometimes longer without a dropout, and then a whole bunch of them, then back to none for awhile. I tired of it, at this point they're just energy sucking streaming boxes as I don't have any problems with audio on the streaming services, it's only linear cable TV. It is so aggravating I feel like taking a sledgehammer to the whole lot of them.

I'm going to file one last support claim but at this point, I'm convinced this is never going to be fixed. And I will never buy another TiVo ever again, I'm done with this crap.

Oh, and the special beta that was supposed to be focused on fixing the problem, the one where several of us were invited to participate in, amounted to a whole lot of nothing as the problem is just as prevalent as it's ever been, maybe even worse.


----------



## JoeKustra

Funny, but I was thinking last week that the dropouts seemed to be more frequent since 20.7.1. It could be a coincidence.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> Funny, but I was thinking last week that the dropouts seemed to be more frequent since 20.7.1. It could be a coincidence.


Based on what I've been hearing you are correct. It is definitely, without question, happening more frequently after 20.7.1. Whatever they did with this update, if anything at all, is go backwards as the problem is worse, not better.


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> Based on what I've been hearing you are correct. It is definitely, without question, happening more frequently after 20.7.1. Whatever they did with this update, if anything at all, is go backwards as the problem is worse, not better.


I have observed some lag increase when moving between PCM and DD, as if the box is thinking longer which mode to use. This may be in response to all those PCM startup issues. The change in dropouts may be a side effect. I remember, back when this thread started, they were really bad. Then TiVo shortened the dead time when using menus, and the really bad dropouts stopped.

Not related: if you really want to see a big delay in audio, get a Sharp/Roku TV. I bought one a few months ago since it was really cheap for 32" and it has a significant delay with audio all the time. If I used it a lot I would return it, but it's only used for a few hours a day. No delay on the 24" that I was using. For $150, 1080p and nice features it's a good value, as long as it's not used with a TiVo.


----------



## Jed1

I get no audio drop outs at all on both my Base Roamios. There is one important thing, the drop of audio going in and out of TiVo Central is not the same as audio drop outs on TV channels. TiVo Central has its own output resolution and does require a HDMI handshake when entering or leaving it. TiVo made the handshake period to short so they had to make it longer in order for the downstream equipment to report back to the TiVo.
This will not cause audio dropouts from live TV. That can be caused by a problem with the signal from the source or signal issues coming from the cable feed. It has been a while since I had audio drops from watching live TV. The one main offending channel was WYOU HD the CBS affiliate.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I have observed some lag increase when moving between PCM and DD, as if the box is thinking longer which mode to use. This may be in response to all those PCM startup issues. The change in dropouts may be a side effect. I remember, back when this thread started, they were really bad. Then TiVo shortened the dead time when using menus, and the really bad dropouts stopped.
> 
> Not related: if you really want to see a big delay in audio, get a Sharp/Roku TV. I bought one a few months ago since it was really cheap for 32" and it has a significant delay with audio all the time. If I used it a lot I would return it, but it's only used for a few hours a day. No delay on the 24" that I was using. For $150, 1080p and nice features it's a good value, as long as it's not used with a TiVo.


I haven't had any latency issues that I can recall. I've had the occasional channel that has been out of sync at times but I've never attributed that to the TiVo as the cause. My audio issues have always been the dropouts.

What's so frustrating about this dropout problem is that it's so random. I've been watching the committee hearings on MSNBC all morning(3 hrs+) and haven't had a single dropout, but I could back to watching the same channel 5 or 6 hrs from now I wouldn't be surprised at all if the dropouts were back. That's what makes this problem so bad, I can't rely on the TiVo equipment I have to give me a clean recording anymore. In contrast, I also have a SiliconDust HDHomerun Prime setup and I never, ever recall having any audio dropouts with content watched live or recorded; the problem is with the TiVo equipment, there is absolutely no question about that.

Looking ahead, I am at the point of just selling the Tivos as I firmly believe that TiVo is never going to address this issue to a satisfactory end.


----------



## kbmb

Jed1 said:


> I get no audio drop outs at all on both my Base Roamios. There is one important thing, the drop of audio going in and out of TiVo Central is not the same as audio drop outs on TV channels. TiVo Central has its own output resolution and does require a HDMI handshake when entering or leaving it. TiVo made the handshake period to short so they had to make it longer in order for the downstream equipment to report back to the TiVo.
> This will not cause audio dropouts from live TV. *That can be caused by a problem with the signal from the source or signal issues coming from the cable feed. *It has been a while since I had audio drops from watching live TV. The one main offending channel was WYOU HD the CBS affiliate.


While that may be, it is clearly the TiVo itself causing the issue as anytime I have ever had dropouts, rewinding and re-playing the same spot usually saw the dropout go away.

And I really, really, can't believe I started this thread Oct 2015 and it's still happening.

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

Jed1 said:


> I get no audio drop outs at all on both my Base Roamios. There is one important thing, the drop of audio going in and out of TiVo Central is not the same as audio drop outs on TV channels. TiVo Central has its own output resolution and does require a HDMI handshake when entering or leaving it. TiVo made the handshake period to short so they had to make it longer in order for the downstream equipment to report back to the TiVo.
> This will not cause audio dropouts from live TV. That can be caused by a problem with the signal from the source or signal issues coming from the cable feed. It has been a while since I had audio drops from watching live TV. The one main offending channel was WYOU HD the CBS affiliate.


I've never given much thought to audio dropouts going to and from the menus, I've just figured that it's part and parcel to how the device works and it doesn't really detract from my viewing pleasure. If I'm going into the menus I'm very likely not paying a lot of attention to what's actually playing.

It is possible, and I've noted here it in the past, that the dropout problem could be related to less than perfect data from the incoming channel itself. My thinking is that the TiVo error correction is failing to correct that abnormal data. Again, though, the SD Prime device I have seems to handle these very same data streams perfectly with no dropouts at all.


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> While that may be, it is clearly the TiVo itself causing the issue as anytime I have ever had dropouts, rewinding and re-playing the same spot usually saw the dropout go away.
> 
> *And I really, really, can't believe I started this thread Oct 2015 and it's still happening.*
> 
> -Kevin


Yes, indeed, and that's what makes me so angry about this issue and it's also why I'm 100% convinced it's never going to be solved.


----------



## kbmb

keenanSR said:


> Yes, indeed, and that's what makes me so angry about this issue and it's also why I'm 100% convinced it's never going to be solved.


I hear ya. And because it's so random - I think TiVo just gave up trying. I get it, it's hard to diagnose and fix. But I believe it affected enough different people on enough different cable platforms to where they could have tried harder to figure out why it is happening.

Sidenote: I think TiVo is in maintenance mode now anyway. For me, both our Lifetime boxes are past the break-even point. With the direction of the cable companies and the likely move to IP delivery - I'm just waiting until the day I just give in and either go all streaming or switch to their box (X1). We watch as many shows as we can on Hulu now anyway mainly because Comcast's picture quality is so bad. Prior to that, we used to watch as much on Hulu because I couldn't take the TiVo dropouts 

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> I hear ya. And because it's so random - I think TiVo just gave up trying. I get it, it's hard to diagnose and fix. But I believe it affected enough different people on enough different cable platforms to where they could have tried harder to figure out why it is happening.
> 
> Sidenote: I think TiVo is in maintenance mode now anyway. For me, both our Lifetime boxes are past the break-even point. With the direction of the cable companies and the likely move to IP delivery - I'm just waiting until the day I just give in and either go all streaming or switch to their box (X1). We watch as many shows as we can on Hulu now anyway mainly because Comcast's picture quality is so bad. Prior to that, we used to watch as much on Hulu because I couldn't take the TiVo dropouts
> 
> -Kevin


Same here, and I'm just glad I only paid $225 for my new(unused display model) Pro, had I paid retail price I would be absolutely livid at this point. As I said earlier, its primary use now is for the streaming services. I'm now looking forward more than ever to SiliconDust getting their DVR solution to a release candidate condition. It actually works now but there's still some bells and whistles to be worked out. If TiVo comes out with a streaming box, without a monthly service fee, I might be interested in that but I won't be buying any sort of DVR from them ever again, as you've noted, the DVR-style device is on its way out anyway.


----------



## tivolocity

I haven't looked at this very closely, but here's what we experienced last night. We were watching The Voice live on the local Denver NBC affiliate using my Roamio Basic which is connected to Comcast cable. There were a lot of audio dropouts (btw., connected to a Yamaha receiver). I tried jumping back, and when it replayed the dropouts were still happening in the same places. It finally got so bad that I decided to try playing back the same episode of the show that was being recorded on my Roamio OTA connected to an antenna. When playing back the OTA recording there were no audio dropouts.


----------



## keenanSR

I just finished with a 40 min call to TiVo tech support on this audio problem. The end result was that he said my SNR numbers were too high. They ranged from 35 - 39 and he said those were too high and that I needed to contact my cable company to fix it.

Personally, I don't believe that the SNR number has anything to do with the problem many of us have been having and in fact, many months ago I went through the whole signal attenuation process using all different values of attenuators and even in combination to see if that helped and it made no difference at all.

I give up.


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> I just finished with a 40 min call to TiVo tech support on this audio problem. The end result was that he said my SNR numbers were too high. They ranged from 35 - 39 and he said those were too high and that I needed to contact my cable company to fix it.
> Personally, I don't believe that the SNR number has anything to do with the problem many of us have been having and in fact, many months ago I went through the whole signal attenuation process using all different values of attenuators and even in combination to see if that helped and it made no difference at all.
> I give up.


I understand. I have a pair of Roamio, a Premiere and two Sony TV sets. All have a SNR of 35db or 36db. But Roamio signal is always 90%, Premiere is always 78% and TV is always 75%. Only the Roamio has "odd audio dropouts".

One Roamio was connected directly to a small 24" TV that was mono only, so the output was PCM. I replaced the TV with a Sharp/Roku 32" that supports DD 5.1. Now there are dropouts. But the audio is much better.


----------



## kbmb

keenanSR said:


> I just finished with a 40 min call to TiVo tech support on this audio problem. The end result was that he said my SNR numbers were too high. They ranged from 35 - 39 and he said those were too high and that I needed to contact my cable company to fix it.
> 
> Personally, I don't believe that the SNR number has anything to do with the problem many of us have been having and in fact, many months ago I went through the whole signal attenuation process using all different values of attenuators and even in combination to see if that helped and it made no difference at all.
> 
> I give up.


Ugh. The old SNR too high excuse. I'm sorry you had to go through all that.

-Kevin


----------



## keenanSR

Yeah...and the thing is, that didn't occur to me while on the phone, is that if that had anything at all to do with it why does the problem usually correct itself when rewinding? If that reading, whatever the heck is it, I'm not sure the people at TiVo even know what it is, were the problem the dropout would be a permanent part of the recording and no amount of rewinding would ever fix it.

If I had the cable company(Comcast) come out to "fix" it, all I'd end up with is a bill for a waste of time service call, and something tells me TiVo ain't gonna pay for it.


----------



## keenanSR

kbmb said:


> Ugh. The old SNR too high excuse. I'm sorry you had to go through all that.
> 
> -Kevin


The main reason I even made the call was because TiVo had "Closed" the support ticket I had opened just a few days ago and I wanted to yell at somebody!


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I understand. I have a pair of Roamio, a Premiere and two Sony TV sets. All have a SNR of 35db or 36db. But Roamio signal is always 90%, Premiere is always 78% and TV is always 75%. Only the Roamio has "odd audio dropouts".
> 
> One Roamio was connected directly to a small 24" TV that was mono only, so the output was PCM. I replaced the TV with a Sharp/Roku 32" that supports DD 5.1. Now there are dropouts. But the audio is much better.


It's happening on all 3 of my TiVos; Pro, Basic and Mini.

And yet I can go many hours on all of those devices with no dropouts at all... sigh...


----------



## JoeKustra

keenanSR said:


> It's happening on all 3 of my TiVos; Pro, Basic and Mini.
> 
> And yet I can go many hours on all of those devices with no dropouts at all... sigh...


I forgot to mention that my Mini is much worse than my Roamio. I only use it for an hour a day, so I forget about it.


----------



## keenanSR

JoeKustra said:


> I forgot to mention that my Mini is much worse than my Roamio. I only use it for an hour a day, so I forget about it.


When it happens it does seem to be worse on the Mini, yet I've been using it all day today and haven't had a single dropout. (head bashes brick wall)


----------



## choco

I see audio problems/dropouts mainly on a single channel (CBS). We recorded Ransom last night, and the entire recording has no audio at all. Rewinding or replaying doesn't help. This has happened in the past too.

I tested the channel just now, and I can reproduce audio problems pretty often with live TV. If I flip directly to the channel by keying in the channel number, every so often there will be no audio at all. But if I then press channel up/down to flip to the next channel and back to CBS, the audio starts working for CBS. The audio dropout only seems to occur if I jump directly to the channel by keying in the channel number on the remote.

My impression is that this issue only started happening in the past couple months, and usually on Saturdays, for some reason. It could be that the Tivo isn't recording much on Saturday, and if the issue is somehow related to channel changing, it doesn't need to do so as much on Saturdays for us.

I don't know why the problem doesn't seem to occur on other channels. I've noticed minor audio dropouts on other channels for a second or two, but nothing like CBS, where the audio drops out for long periods without returning. Maybe it's some interaction between Cox's CBS feed and Roamio.


----------



## choco

I tested more and found some peculiar, completely reproducible audio and video dropout behavior. If I switch from CBS to certain channels (let's say, channels A, B, and C) and then back to CBS, it *always* causes the audio to dropout on CBS (video still works). If I switch from CBS to other channels (let's say, channels D, E, and F) and then back to CBS, it *always *causes the video to dropout on CBS (audio still works). This behavior is completely reproducible. Switching from CBS to particular channels and then back to CBS always causes either an audio or video dropout, every single time without fail. This problem only happens with CBS. Accessing the menu (Tivo button) or flipping to a "good" channel (*not* channels A, B, C, D, E, or F) and then back to CBS will fix the audio or video dropout on CBS.

I've looked at diagnostics and haven't seen anything out of the ordinary for signal strength, SNR, video, or audio PIDs for the various channels, but I don't know enough about it to make a good conclusion. I've also tried using different tuners for CBS and both Dolby and PCM Only sound, but the same dropouts occur in all cases. For reference, I have a Roamio running 20.7.1.

Since this behavior is completely reproducible, it seems like something the Tivo engineers could debug.


----------



## CosmoGeek

jaredmwright said:


> I am having the same problem. This only happens on channel 703 - NBC in the San Francisco Bay Area on Comcast on a Roamio Pro. Strange thing is that it only happens on this one channel and is very consistent on about every recording. It is really annoying and I wonder if it could be a cable card or if it is a software issue? I am running my HDMI through my Denon receiver.
> 
> I have an XL4 that does not have this issue, so it seems related to my Roamio Pro.
> 
> If anyone has any tips I would appreciate it.


 Same here. Frequent audio dropouts on channel 703 NBC Comcast Mountain View, CA (Bay Area). I have seen it on another channel but don't recall the channel. HDMI straight from my Roamio PRO to my Samsung 55KS8000. Lately, (I believe since the update to 20.7.1, but that could be a coincidence) I've also been getting stuttering/jerky/dropped frames in the video, even on shows recorded long before I ever noticed this problem. Maybe the software update, or maybe a failing HD? I am so frustrated at this point. I'm about ready to ask Comcast for their DVR.


----------



## ogre73

Have to resurrect this. For quite some time I had been having good luck with this and had not had any dropouts or quality issues. On Monday night my Roamio recorded the Voice on NBC. While listening to it tonight, through my Yamaha receiver, I hear what I can only describe as "popping". It is sort of like the popping that you hear from a record on a turntable, but I am pretty well convinced that this is from either a bandwidth or a signal quality issue. What I am saying here is that I can't tell if it is an NBC issue with not uploading a quality signal, the signal then received on the dish at Comcast being degraded, or if the signal from Comcast is being "compressed" before reaching my Tivo, or if the issue is with the cablecard/Tivo decoding. Whatever it is, I am not OK with this happening.
By the way, as an electronics tech with experience in RF, electronics, and fiber optics, and having worked on phased array radar systems in the Army and optical transmission/reception equipment in one of the largest trans-continental telecommunications companies in the world, I must say that comments on this forum lead me to believe that signal to noise ratio (SNR) seems to be very much misunderstood. Without getting into too much detail: the higher the ratio of signal to noise, the better your signal is relative to the noise floor. So for someone to say that the SNR is too high is, quite frankly, absurd. There are VERY few cases where a higher SNR is not preferable to lower.
That said, I have no desire to begin analyzing my system at that level. The fact is that this is either a problem with NBC, Comcast, or the Tivo. I don't like it and I'm making it known to any NBC, Comcast, or Tivo persons reading this that I am not OK with this degradation in my recording quality.


----------



## JoeKustra

ogre73 said:


> That said, I have no desire to begin analyzing my system at that level. The fact is that this is either a problem with NBC, Comcast, or the Tivo. I don't like it and I'm making it known to any NBC, Comcast, or Tivo persons reading this that I am not OK with this degradation in my recording quality.


I vote Comcast. And, as has been asked on this thread before, do the audio "pops" repeat when you rewind? If they do, it's part of your content. If not, its your TiVo. While there is no reason it can't happen on a recording, I have never had that happen.

The occasional odd audio dropout has never been fixed. I do think they are less frequent, but that may be a hardware or content difference.


----------



## V7Goose

JoeKustra said:


> I vote Comcast. And, as has been asked on this thread before, do the audio "pops" repeat when you rewind? If they do, it's part of your content. If not, its your TiVo. While there is no reason it can't happen on a recording, I have never had that happen.
> 
> The occasional odd audio dropout has never been fixed. I do think they are less frequent, but that may be a hardware or content difference.


I do not think I have ever heard the "pops", but the audio dropouts have been with us forever. I have noticed, however, that the one Bolt where I only run PCM audio out never seems to do it, while it is a regular frustration with Dolby audio out.


----------



## JoeKustra

V7Goose said:


> I do not think I have ever heard the "pops", but the audio dropouts have been with us forever. I have noticed, however, that the one Bolt where I only run PCM audio out never seems to do it, while it is a regular frustration with Dolby audio out.


I often wonder if it's the Dolby chip or the programming of the Dolby chip. I remember when this thread started the problem was much worse. When the update came out that reduced the lag when going from a menu to live video, that also reduced the frequency of the dropouts. Because of sports, the issue comes up a lot. A drop in crowd noise is very noticeable.


----------



## PSPMark

keenanSR said:


> Yes, indeed, and that's what makes me so angry about this issue and it's also why I'm 100% convinced it's never going to be solved.


November 2019 and still an issue with my Tivo Bolt+. Really?


----------



## JoeKustra

PSPMark said:


> November 2019 and still an issue with my Tivo Bolt+. Really?


Not in two years. But I reseat my HDMI connector every month.


----------



## laria

I honestly had forgotten this was even a thing until this thread was bumped, but I certainly remember now how much of a problem it was for me starting about 4 years ago. At some point it just went away though and I never noticed!


----------



## lprimak

Does anyone know for sure if this is a tivo problem or a cable card / tuning adapter problem in some areas / setups?
I've been calling both Spectum and Tivo many times, and they always blame each other with no resolutino


----------



## lprimak

Also, I can't get my SDV channels to work as well in the same setup. Does anyone who has this problem has the SDV problem as well? i.e. are they related?


----------



## JoeKustra

lprimak said:


> Does anyone know for sure if this is a tivo problem or a cable card / tuning adapter problem in some areas / setups?
> I've been calling both Spectum and Tivo many times, and they always blame each other with no resolutino


The "test" for dropouts is that they can't be repeated. If the audio drops, then you hit the rewind button and the dropout is still there, then it's part of the data stream. You can't record or repeat "random" dropouts.


----------



## lprimak

I have been able to reliably reproduce the audio dropouts.
There is a pair of channels (CNN & HLN, 201 & 204) in Lincoln NE (Spectrum)
When a tuner switches channels between this pair of channels, in about one out of 3 times, it won't tune in the sound.



JoeKustra said:


> "test" for dropouts is that they can't be repeated. If the audio drops, then you hit the rewind button and the dropout is still there, then it's part of the data stream. You can't record or repeat "random" dropouts.


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## JoeKustra

Lack of sound is not a drop out. BTW, CNN uses DD EX. That's 3/3/0.1 and perhaps that affects your AVR or TV. Change the audio output of the Roamio to PCM and see if the problem goes away. It won't sound as good.


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## mattyro7878

WFSB which is my local CBS also uses DD EX. It includes a center- rear channel. Correct?


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## lprimak

no no no! Please don't confuse the issue.
This is not an output problem. sound isn't recorded. Has nothing to do with TV, output, PCM, etc. tried it all.
As pointed out in previous posts, on some recordings (not all), SAP can be switched to Spanish, and you get the English track.
Clearly, the primary track isn't getting tuned. I can't get sound in "bad" recordings via tivo app, other TVs, etc.

I just did another test. replaced my Bolt with Tivo P-XL (Series 4), with all the same equipment the problem goes away.
This is definitely an issue for the 6+ series Tivo and not a cable card / tuning adapter issue.



JoeKustra said:


> Lack of sound is not a drop out. BTW, CNN uses DD EX. That's 3/3/0.1 and perhaps that affects your AVR or TV. Change the audio output of the Roamio to PCM and see if the problem goes away. It won't sound as good.


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## lprimak

Figured out that are totally unrelated.



lprimak said:


> Also, I can't get my SDV channels to work as well in the same setup. Does anyone who has this problem has the SDV problem as well? i.e. are they related?


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## lprimak

I can reliably reproduce this issue. Here is the YouTube video reproducing the issue


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## JoeKustra

lprimak said:


> I just did another test. replaced my Bolt with Tivo P-XL (Series 4), with all the same equipment the problem goes away.
> This is definitely an issue for the 6+ series Tivo and not a cable card / tuning adapter issue.


Since this is a Roamio (Series 5) forum, perhaps you should start a new thread in the Bolt forum.


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## laria

JoeKustra said:


> Since this is a Roamio (Series 5) forum, perhaps you should start a new thread in the Bolt forum.


Indeed, especially since the issue that this thread was about was an issue where the sound was in fact there and was recorded and the test for it was simply to back up and replay the section it dropped out and hear it play fine.



lprimak said:


> no no no! Please don't confuse the issue.
> This is not an output problem. sound isn't recorded.


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## lprimak

Not sure whether to put it in helper or Bolt. I believe Edge is affected as well.
Maybe the generic forum or leave it here.
I think Roamio is also affected by this issue as well, but not 100% sure.



JoeKustra said:


> Since this is a Roamio (Series 5) forum, perhaps you should start a new thread in the Bolt forum.


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## lprimak

Success! Looks like the latest Bolt update 21.9.7.v7-USC-11-849 has resolved the issue as of today!
Finally after 3 years!


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## pgoelz

lprimak said:


> Success! Looks like the latest Bolt update 21.9.7.v7-USC-11-849 has resolved the issue as of today!
> Finally after 3 years!


So does that mean those of us still on TE3 (20.7.4b.RC3-USC-11-849) will likely never get the fix?

Paul


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## JoeKustra

pgoelz said:


> So does that mean those of us still on TE3 (20.7.4b.RC3-USC-11-849) will likely never get the fix?
> Paul


I don't need one. I reseat my HDMI connector every month.


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## pgoelz

JoeKustra said:


> I don't need one. I reseat my HDMI connector every month.


Do you think this is a physical / contact issue or do you think that re-seating the connector causes some sort of re-boot? And do you re-seat both connectors on both cables (if you run through an AVR?

I have very occasional dropouts that do not always repeat after rewinding and re-playing. There is also a very repeatable dropout about 30 seconds after starting playback of a new title either from a recording or from Netflix.

Paul


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## JoeKustra

Your symptoms are correct except for the playback thing.

On the last day of the month I power everything down. I power off all four UPS. While off, I reseat the Roamio's HDMI connection and clean under all the stuff with running drives. My main Roamio does run through an AVR, but another goes straight to the TV, but I only use that one for a few hours daily. It has that dropout maybe once or twice a week. I don't reseat the AVR connections. This month (May) I skipped the reboot since I was installing a 4k TV and new AVR. Result has been two disconnects on a A93 Mini I watch in my bedroom. Last day of May is a Sunday, but I doubt it will interfere with recordings, and I usually do the reboot about the same time as my service connection. Sometimes I do it after breakfast. I'm retired so this is just something to do. If you look at the beginning of this thread you will see I was very active. Also, it was much worse before TiVo fixed something that shortened the delay when going to live TV from a menu. I am also using DD 5.1 on both Roamio boxes.

So May 31, put your box into Standby and when the green light goes out, unplug the box. Reseat the HDMI connection. After you apply power it will make a service connection within 30 minutes. (they all do). See if it helps.


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## lprimak

There are multiple issues in this thread. My particular issue was that sound was not recorded / tuned correctly, thus no amount of re-setting or rewinding the show would fix the problem. This problem is TE4 specific and didn't affect the TE3 devices at all, so the fix isn't applicable to your problem.



pgoelz said:


> So does that mean those of us still on TE3 (20.7.4b.RC3-USC-11-849) will likely never get the fix?
> 
> Paul


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## JoeKustra

lprimak said:


> There are multiple issues in this thread. My particular issue was that sound was not recorded / tuned correctly, thus no amount of re-setting or rewinding the show would fix the problem. This problem is TE4 specific and didn't affect the TE3 devices at all, so the fix isn't applicable to your problem.


This thread started before TE4 existed.

I also should mention I use amplified HDMI cables from Monoprice that are no longer made.


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## MyTeeVoeRocks

Apparently dropped audio can be caused by excessive heat buildup in a TiVo Premier. My Premier XL (manufactured 2012, OTA only) began dropping audio this summer for the first time. My sound setup is a Monster HDMI cable from the TiVo Premier to a Panasonic Plasma TV, then by fiberoptic to an Onkyo Dolby 7.1 receiver/amplifier. The TiVo Premier XL, a Roku receiver, and a Sony Blu-ray player each have a dedicated HDMI input on the TV. When I read the opening post in this thread, it described perfectly what my TiVo Premier was doing: Audio would randomly drop out on all recordings and live broadcasts, usually just one word now and then. When I would replay the recording, the dropped audio would often occur at a different place. I verified that the sound still played perfectly through my ROKU, so the TV and Onkyo amplifier were functioning normally. I then removed and re-seated the HDMI cable to the TiVo: no improvement. Next, I disconnected the TiVo and took it out of the entertainment-center cabinet. I immediately noticed that the TiVo was unusually hot on the bottom - so hot that it was uncomfortable to put my hand under it. The entertainment center my Tivo sits in has glass doors in front and is ventilated by three thermostatically-controlled fans. The fan-ventilated cabinet was made necessary initially because the Onkyo receiver/amplifier generates a tremendous amount of heat. I checked the fans in the Entertainment center and discovered they were not working because the power plug for the thermostatic controller had worked loose. Without fans to cool the cabinet, the Onkyo receiver overheated the interior of the Entertainment Center and all the AV components inside, including the TiVo Premier. While I waited for the TiVo to cool down, I reattached the power cord to the three fans and vacuumed the accumulated dust out of the Entertainment Center. I put the cooled TiVo back into the cabinet, reconnected the same cables, and now it is working perfectly again.


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## brobin

A laptop cooler under the unit is helpful too.


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