# Terminator: Sarah Connors Chronicles "The Demon Hand" OAD:2-25-2008 *spoilers*



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Don't trust the metal!

And for the record, I have to ask why in the world you'd steal a video tape that the FBI agent clearly knew he had. It's not like he won't know it's missing!


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

bdowell said:


> Don't trust the metal!


You can't kill the metal
The metal will live on

Greg


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

Bruce Davison was good casting.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

Anyone else notice the FBI agent's voice can be very similar to Denzel Washinton's voice?

Oh, and Summer Glau makes ballet HOT!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

So I got the impression from the previews that next week is either the end of the season or the end of the series. Does anyone know which?


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

ElJay said:


> Bruce Davison was good casting.


Earl Boen who played Dr. Silberman in the movies would have been better, but imdb.com says he retired from acting in December 2003, after his small role in Terminator 3. (He was the only actor other than Arnold himself to appear in all three Terminator movies).


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## zordude (Sep 23, 2003)

gchance said:


> You can't kill the metal
> The metal will live on
> 
> Greg


No one can destroy the metal
The metal will strike you down with a vicious blow

Z


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Peter000 said:


> So I got the impression from the previews that next week is either the end of the season or the end of the series. Does anyone know which?


It's the season finalé. Whether it's the series finalé will depend on whether Fox decides to give it another season...

I hope they do. Although it hasn't completely overcome the flaws that so seriously marred the early episodes, I think it's made great strides the past couple of weeks.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Fox should do the right thing and pick this show up for a second season. Don't make me bust out the Burn in hell Fox!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I guess I enjoy the show, but don't care one way or the other if it gets renewed.


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## spikedavis (Nov 23, 2003)

The last two episodes have been great. I'll miss Summer Glau...


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

zordude said:


> No one can destroy the metal
> The metal will strike you down with a vicious blow
> 
> Z


We are the vanquished foes of the metal
We tried to win for why we do not know

Great episode though. I made the mistake of watching Knight Rider just before, boy what a boring evening until Sarah Connor. Bruce Davison seems to be getting the work these days. 

Greg


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

gchance said:


> Great episode though. I made the mistake of watching Knight Rider just before, boy what a boring evening until Sarah Connor. Bruce Davison seems to be getting the work these days.


Oddly, I also watched Knight Rider this evening. I didn't mind it as much as some people seemed to have (then again, I never liked the original so I didn't have nostalgia weighing me down), but I was also struck by what a busy night it was for Davison!


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> Oh, and Summer Glau makes ballet HOT!


I love watching her dance.
One of my favorite scenes in Firefly is Simon watching her dance on the colony is Safe.



Rob Helmerichs said:


> I hope they do. Although it hasn't completely overcome the flaws that so seriously marred the early episodes, I think it's made great strides the past couple of weeks.


I hope so too. They've been planting some very interesting seeds with Cameron, John, Derek, and Agent Ellison.
And I thought that it was interesting that Ellison is a man of faith.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

JYoung said:


> And I thought that it was interesting that Ellison is a man of faith.


...although not enough of one to know what the Book of Revelation is called!

("Revelations" is one of my pet peeves...)


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

"Your height is good, great feet, but your upper body is a little too... mechanical." 

That was a nice job of contrasting the cold Summernator walking away once her mission was done and leaving the Russians to die at the hands of the mob, and Sarah completing her mission but stopping to save Ellison's life.

And damn if Brian Austin Green isn't growing on me as an actor. His expression at the end while watching the machine dance was pitch-perfect.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

zordude said:


> No one can destroy the metal
> The metal will strike you down with a vicious blow


What about New Wave?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Philosofy said:


> Oh, and Summer Glau makes ballet HOT!


I wondered when they were going to work her dance training into the show.

It was weird though, the first ballet scene, when she goes to do that "cat" move, they cut to a wide shot from behind, angled so you can't see her front in the mirror, and her head whips around too fast for you to see it. That's the kind of staging you use when you are using a double and you want to disguise it. I wouldn't think they would need a double for that, given her training.


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

Summer Glau was a dancer in one of my favorite episodes of Angel. This reminded me how much I missed that series and Firefly. I prefer her as cold and mechanical so as not to dig up the bittersweet memories of what could have been.


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## Gunnyman (Jul 10, 2003)

season Finale?
did they only order 13 episodes?
BIH Fox! (preemptive)


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

The only problem I have with this show is the casting and characterization of Sarah. Linda Hamilton _owned_ that role, and while I didn't expect anybody to be as good, they really took it in a different direction.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I really am just getting into Summer Glau big time. I had never watched Firefly but recently picked up the DVD set. I am about 6 or 7 episodes in. She's just great. And I too thought the ballet scenes (besides her being hot) were quite touching.

I hope it gets renewed. 

Maybe Fox and NBC can get together and create a new show called, The Journeynator!


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## Mike Lang (Nov 17, 1999)

So was the music she was dancing to at the end the same music he heard coming from the basement in the previous episode?


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## mrmike (May 2, 2001)

JYoung said:


> I love watching her dance.
> One of my favorite scenes in Firefly is Simon watching her dance on the colony is Safe.


Prarie skirt & combat boots. And she manages to make it look graceful and carefree. One of my faves too.


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## milo99 (Oct 14, 2002)

ok, was it just me, or was there a huge mess up with the date of that video? Did she say it was june (or july?) 1997? Um, didn't they escape in 1991?? Judgement day was in 1997 "originally" ...and in the beginning of this series, didn't it start in 1997 before they time warped?


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## su719 (Apr 5, 2004)

Mike Lang said:


> So was the music she was dancing to at the end the same music he heard coming from the basement in the previous episode?


That was my big question from last night's episodes.


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

I was expecting her to save the Russian's, and when she didn't it really hit home that she is just a machine.

Brian Austin Greene, the dude can act. Great casting here.


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

wouldn't the reese boys be born right around this timeline? Wonder why there's no urgency to protect them from termination.


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## kaszeta (Jun 11, 2004)

milo99 said:


> ok, was it just me, or was there a huge mess up with the date of that video? Did she say it was june (or july?) 1997? Um, didn't they escape in 1991?? Judgement day was in 1997 "originally" ...and in the beginning of this series, didn't it start in 1997 before they time warped?


That was the one that got me confused as well. I'm now pretty unclear on the whole timeline.


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## jgerry (Aug 29, 2001)

Great episode. This has cemented my desire to see another season of this show. Next week, 2 hour finale. How many episodes did we get in this "season"? Not 13, right? Seemed much shorter than that.

And I feel crazy saying this, but I'm with the others here in saying that Brian Austin Green is doing a great job. Who knew??


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

They definitely take liberties with the time line.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Summer glau has a beautiful neck.


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## flaminio (May 21, 2004)

Jim_TV said:


> Earl Boen who played Dr. Silberman in the movies would have been better, but imdb.com says he retired from acting in December 2003, after his small role in Terminator 3. (He was the only actor other than Arnold himself to appear in all three Terminator movies).


I agree; Davison was good, but it'd've been cool to have Earl Boen in there -- it would have made some nice continuity between the movies and series. Plus, Boen would have then been in all four incarnations of Terminator -- and it's unlikely that Arnie will show up in T:SCC.

I have a show idea I want to pitch to Fox. It'd be an hour long show called "Summer Glau Practices Ballet". Who's with me? I predict a smash hit.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

flaminio said:


> I have a show idea I want to pitch to Fox. It'd be an hour long show called "Summer Glau Practices Ballet *au naturale*". Who's with me? I predict a smash hit.


FYP


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

flaminio said:


> I have a show idea I want to pitch to Fox. It'd be an hour long show called "Summer Glau Practices Ballet". Who's with me? I predict a smash hit.


You might stand a better chance with FX. In fact, what you should do is not pitch FX, but pitch Denis Leary. That way when FX does air it, it'll be "From the creator of Rescue Me".

Greg


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

bruinfan said:


> Summer glau has a beautiful neck.


She has a beautiful everything. She's been a "premier ballerina most of her life", according to IMDB.

Why is Summer going to be missed? Is she leaving the show?


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> ......Why is Summer going to be missed? Is she leaving the show?


The concern is that Fox might not renew past next week's 2-part season/series? finale......


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Summer doing Ballet in Angel.....awesome!


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## Shakhari (Jan 2, 2005)

In addition to the dancing, I liked the homage to T2 with her dressed as a motorcycle cop, big shades and all.

As far as the timeline goes, T1 came out in 1984 and took place in that year. T2 came out in 1991, but took place in 1994 ... John would have been 9 at the time, but Edward Furlong was 13 or 14. Unfortunately, that means that at the start of the TV series, in 1997, John should only be 12 or 13.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

awesome


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## ElJay (Apr 6, 2005)

After the insane amount of promotion Fox put into this puppy, I am going to be very amazed if it is canceled after just this run. But then again it's Fox, so I shouldn't be surprised no matter what happens.


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## aintnosin (Jun 25, 2003)

Gunnyman said:


> season Finale?
> did they only order 13 episodes?
> BIH Fox! (preemptive)


Mid-season replacements rarely have more than 13-episode orders.


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> wouldn't the reese boys be born right around this timeline? Wonder why there's no urgency to protect them from termination.


I don't think the Terminators know who John Connors father is.


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## pjenkins (Mar 8, 1999)

Barmat said:


> I don't think the Terminators know who John Connors father is.


correct, they don't know.

no way Fox cancels this after next week's season finale.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

aintnosin said:


> Mid-season replacements rarely have more than 13-episode orders.


Has it even been 13 though? It seems like it went by awfully fast.


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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

pjenkins said:


> no way Fox cancels this after next week's season finale.


You don't know Fox like some of us know Fox. 

Space Above and Beyond


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

jlb said:


> Summer doing Ballet in Angel.....awesome!


There's an interview with her over at The AV Club where she talks about the audition process for "Waiting in the Wings"...


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

jgerry said:


> How many episodes did we get in this "season"? Not 13, right? Seemed much shorter than that.





busyba said:


> Has it even been 13 though? It seems like it went by awfully fast.


I've been saving all the episodes.
Only 7 up to this point.
2 hour season finale (which most likely is 2 back to back episodes) will make 9.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Wasn't the first episode 2? So that'd be 10. In fact I distinctly remember telling my wife, with the strike what the hell are they thinking, burning off an extra episode just for a premiere? But what do I know, I'm only a viewer. 

Greg


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

jones07 said:


> You don't know Fox like some of us know Fox.
> 
> Space Above and Beyond


We cann't start a list.

I don't think there's enough space on the internet for all the good shows Fox has canceled early.


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## NCDolphinFan (Oct 10, 2001)

There are 9 episodes for this "season":


1 Pilot 1/13/2008
2 Gnothi Seauton 1/14/2008
3 The Turk 1/21/2008
4 Heavy Metal 2/4/2008
5 Queen's Gambit 2/11/2008
6 Dungeons & Dragons 2/18/2008
7 The Demon Hand 2/25/2008
8 Vick's Chip 3/3/2008
9 What He Beheld 3/3/2008


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

That was a fun episode, I hope the renew it for next season.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

JYoung said:


> I love watching her dance.
> One of my favorite scenes in Firefly is Simon watching her dance on the colony is Safe.


Going? 

http://www.wizardworld.com/

-smak-


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

ElJay said:


> After the insane amount of promotion Fox put into this puppy, I am going to be very amazed if it is canceled after just this run. But then again it's Fox, so I shouldn't be surprised no matter what happens.


In this week's TV Guide podcast, they mentioned that the ratings aren't horrible for it (8-9 million per week), but they might not be high enough to justify renewing it because it's supposedly an expensive show to produce. i.e., they're not getting enough bang for the buck.


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Jeeters said:


> In this week's TV Guide podcast, they mentioned that the ratings aren't horrible for it (8-9 million per week), but they might not be high enough to justify renewing it because it's supposedly an expensive show to produce. i.e., they're not getting enough bang for the buck.


haha! nieve little you thinking fox executives looks at the ratings. We all know FOX just has a big wheel they spin and some options are:

1. keep as is
2. cancel as of now and burn any footage
3. move time slot and day
4. move time slot and day x 2
5. show next episode 3 weeks from now
etc.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

I'm hoping they'll keep it and bring it back in January after 24. That should help out the ratings.

-smak-


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

smak said:


> Going?
> 
> http://www.wizardworld.com/
> 
> -smak-


Wasn't planning on it.


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## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

jlb said:


> Summer doing Ballet in Angel.....awesome!


I love that song. The soundtrack from Anastasia was fantastic.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

milo99 said:


> ok, was it just me, or was there a huge mess up with the date of that video? Did she say it was june (or july?) 1997? Um, didn't they escape in 1991?? Judgement day was in 1997 "originally" ...and in the beginning of this series, didn't it start in 1997 before they time warped?


There is some question of what year T2 was supposed to take place, but it definitely wasn't 1991 (the year that the movie came out). If Terminator took place in 1984 -- if T2 was 1991, that would make John less than 7 years old. I believe in T2 he was supposed to be at least thirteen or so. Which would make it 1997-ish. The original Judgement Day was August 29th, 1997.

I never realized that they were so close to the end during the events of T2.


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## Vito the TiVo (Oct 27, 2003)

I smeeked at bit... I just read elsewhere though that it was supposed to be "around" 1995.

And he was supposed to be ten.


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

My question was why was it daytime and sunny when Dr. Silberman lit the fire and went out the door, but raining and night time when they showed Sarah running into the Doctor and saving the FBI agent from the fire?


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## MrGreg (May 2, 2003)

Did they explain where Summernator got the diamond she gave to the russian guy?


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## TiVo Bum (Nov 6, 2004)

MrGreg said:


> Did they explain where Summernator got the diamond she gave to the russian guy?


I thought that they found a stash of diamonds in the safe they opened at the safehouse for the other resistance fighters that were sent back.


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## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> My question was why was it daytime and sunny when Dr. Silberman lit the fire and went out the door, but raining and night time when they showed Sarah running into the Doctor and saving the FBI agent from the fire?


It might not have been night time. Might just have been overcast and raining.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> My question was why was it daytime and sunny when Dr. Silberman lit the fire and went out the door, but raining and night time when they showed Sarah running into the Doctor and saving the FBI agent from the fire?


It wasn't night time when Sarah arrived. The end of the scene, they have a shot from above of the punched out doctor on the ground, while it's still daytime, and it then time lapses into a rainy night and the FBI guy approaches with his gun drawn.

Presumably, whatever the Dr injected into the FBI guy's neck slowly knocked him out ("you won't feel a thing"), although he was awake long enough to vaguely recall being helped by Sarah. What we don't see and can only assume is that after she helps him, she leaves him and the Dr. unconscious, and later in the evening, the FBI guy wakes up first.


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## s2krazy (Oct 31, 2003)

su719 said:


> That was my big question from last night's episodes.


It was the same music, I went back and looked at last weeks ep to be sure. This probably explains (rather will explain) BAGs reaction when he was watching her dance.


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## Uncle Briggs (Sep 11, 2004)

Philosofy said:


> Oh, and Summer Glau makes ballet HOT!


That was my exact thought. I have never paid that much attention to a ballet dancer in my life.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

smak said:


> Going?
> 
> http://www.wizardworld.com/
> 
> -smak-


interview
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/020608summerglau.html

tickets for show
http://www.wizarduniverse.com/wiwolosan20.html


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

bdowell said:


> ...And for the record, I have to ask why in the world you'd steal a video tape that the FBI agent clearly knew he had. It's not like he won't know it's missing!


Of course, I'd just burn down his house and destroy all the records/tape.


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## warrenn (Jun 24, 2004)




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## jones07 (Jan 30, 2001)

so true


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Great find, warrenn. They should have thrown in a burn in hell though. 

Greg


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## TiVo Steve (Nov 8, 2005)

Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles: 
Vick's Chip / What He Beheld 
(Episodes 108/107)
[two-hour 1st season finale (due to the wga strike) - special time]


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

TiVo Steve said:


> Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles:
> Vick's Chip / What He Beheld
> (Episodes 108/107)
> [two-hour 1st season finale (due to the wga strike) - special time]


Which again makes me wonder about programming execs. Do they have something great to show next week? I would have thought having new content for an additional week would be better than promoting a 2-hour finale.

Greg


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

gchance said:


> Which again makes me wonder about programming execs. Do they have something great to show next week? I would have thought having new content for an additional week would be better than promoting a 2-hour finale.
> 
> Greg


the only thing I can think of is that they must be able to sell advertising for a "2 hour season finale" for a lot more than 1 regular episode and 1-1hour season finale... /shrug

they did the same thing with Las Vegas (except we didn't know it was a finale).


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## domat (Apr 16, 2007)

Whats the fascination with Summer? She is an average looking super thin girl.

Sarah is way hotter.


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## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

domat said:


> Whats the fascination with Summer? She is an average looking super thin girl.
> Sarah is way hotter.


We will have to agree to disagree. Whereas the actress playing Sarah is pretty I do not find her attractive.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

domat said:


> Whats the fascination with Summer? She is an average looking super thin girl.
> 
> Sarah is way hotter.


I don't care which one is hotter... the amount of posts that are nothing but drooling comments about Summer's looks or Lena's looks are getting a bit out of control. It's like we're discussing Baywatch suddenly.

I enjoyed this episode because I like the way the FBI guy isn't just a "you're crazy and evil and I'm going to arrest you" character anymore. On the other hand, it seems like a lot of build-up for something that could have been accomplished from episode one. Hopefully there's some point to all of this.


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## needo (Jul 9, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> I enjoyed this episode because I like the way the FBI guy isn't just a "you're crazy and evil and I'm going to arrest you" character anymore. On the other hand, it seems like a lot of build-up for something that could have been accomplished from episode one. Hopefully there's some point to all of this.


I agree. I just hope they have the chance to get to it due to the shortened season thanks to the strike and the fact that its on Fox.


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## Thom (Jun 5, 2000)

MrGreg said:


> Did they explain where Summernator got the diamond she gave to the russian guy?


In an earlier episode, John Connor gave her a single diamond and said "Diamonds are a girl's best friend." (If I'm remembering correctly.)


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

TAsunder said:


> I don't care which one is hotter... the amount of posts that are nothing but drooling comments about Summer's looks or Lena's looks are getting a bit out of control. It's like we're discussing Baywatch suddenly.
> 
> I enjoyed this episode because I like the way the FBI guy isn't just a "you're crazy and evil and I'm going to arrest you" character anymore. On the other hand, it seems like a lot of build-up for something that could have been accomplished from episode one. Hopefully there's some point to all of this.


I understand what you are saying. The FBI guy's character development, though a little long-winded, has been a nice touch. He has played the thinking-man quite well. I forget the actor's name, but I have always liked him since he was on Judging Amy.

And yes, Summer Glau can make metal hot!


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

I've often wondered where/who Skynet got the human faces for their terminators from.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Peter000 said:


> I've often wondered where/who Skynet got the human faces for their terminators from.


From IMDB.com.
Obviously.


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## PJO1966 (Mar 5, 2002)

JYoung said:


> From IMDB.com.
> Obviously.


I was going to say Central Casting, but didn't want to be a wise-ass.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

I was wondering about the "rain". I found it a little convienent that it started raining just in time to put out the burning cabin. Could it be possible that it was not rain at all and Sarah turned on a hose or something to help put out the fire when she went in to save the FBI guy?

As for Fox - if they don't pick it up, we could always petition to get it picked up again or even by a different network like Sci-Fi.

Definitely was the music from the work house. Cameron also confirmed that she knew Derek Resse. So why was she there and I am assuming doing ballet? - As part of the time travel prep for the soldiers? Or as the Cameronator turned badass in the future?

Rob


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

She knew derek because she saw him in the future at the base. It was ambiguous. She might have meant know in the same sense that he meant, or it might have been a subtlety she didn't understand and simply replied as if know meant "have met".


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## Peter000 (Apr 15, 2002)

The question is, was/is the Summernator at the base living in a loop? Sent back to change the past, and then catching up to the future, only to be sent back again?


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

Peter000 said:


> The question is, was/is the Summernator at the base living in a loop? Sent back to change the past, and then catching up to the future, only to be sent back again?


In this time-travel implementation, you can change the past/future. I don't believe that true time loops are possible in that scenario.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

good episode. Liked how the FBI agent started to think that maybe Sarah wasn't nuts. Seeing Dr. Silberman was cool (even if it was a different actor). They made it even better by having him go nutso. Now he is at Pescadaro talking the same stuff his former patient was. Love it..

One more person that is glad they worked Summer Glau's ballet experience into the role. Drop dead gorgeous girl. So graceful. Didn't know of her before Serenity but when I saw the posters for that, then the movie, I became smitten


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

robpickles said:


> I was wondering about the "rain". I found it a little convienent that it started raining just in time to put out the burning cabin. Could it be possible that it was not rain at all and Sarah turned on a hose or something to help put out the fire when she went in to save the FBI guy?


I don't think the rain is a factor in the rescue. She didn't need to stop the cabin from burning down (and just rain or a garden hose wouldn't do that anyway), she just pulled the FBI guy out to safety then took off. The cabin could go ahead and burn down at that point; it wouldn't matter.

Note that the partial roof we see in the overhead shot of the Dr. unconscious is _not_ of the cabin, but some kind of open outdoor structure that's on the other side of the driveway from the cabin.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> Summer glau has a beautiful neck.


I was thinking the same thing while watching this episode. And honestly, I think she kind of looks "retarded" in her face, to use a crude term. I don't find her attractive at all. But nice neck. 

I was wondering about the 1997 timeline too. That makes no sense.

Other than that, good episode. I like the Agent Ellison sub-plot.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

Like someone else in the thread said earlier, Kyle Reese was sent back to 1984 and conceived John with Sarah. If T2 happened in 1991-92 John would have only been 7 or 8 so it doesn't fit.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

T2 was 1995. The TV series futzed with the timeline. The events of T2 are now 1997 in the TV show.

I really don't know why, because he is still supposed to be 15 in the TV series, which is close to his being born in early 1985.

Can't figure out why they changed it, it seems like there was no need.

-smak-


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## TriBruin (Dec 10, 2003)

MickeS said:


> I was thinking the same thing while watching this episode. And honestly, I think she kind of looks "retarded" in her face, to use a crude term. I don't find her attractive at all. But nice neck.


Since I have never seen her in anything else (No, I have never watch Firefly ), I also assumed that was just part of her acting as a Terminator.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

RBlount said:


> Since I have never seen her in anything else (No, I have never watch Firefly ), I also assumed that was just part of her acting as a Terminator.


She always seems to play characters that are socially challenged...Firefly, 4400, Sarah Connor...I'd be curious to see how she comes across naturally.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

I thought this episode was a big bag of suck. Very little character development other than Summer and her ballet (which, now that I think about it, really sucked, too). Very little action and no plot advancement. I was sorely disappointed; this series has been a roller coaster.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

Bierboy said:


> I thought this episode was a big bag of suck. Very little character development other than Summer and her ballet (which, now that I think about it, really sucked, too). Very little action and no plot advancement. I was sorely disappointed; this series has been a roller coaster.


I've been kind of disappointed in this series, too. The thing I liked about the movies was the action and that's what I was expecting here. It seems like more of a soap opera than an action series. I still watch in case it gets more exciting, but for now it's so-so.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

Bob_Newhart said:


> I've been kind of disappointed in this series, too. The thing I liked about the movies was the action and that's what I was expecting here. It seems like more of a soap opera than an action series. I still watch in case it gets more exciting, but for now it's so-so.


Same for me, Bob. I really want the show to succeed, and I want to like it. And, honestly, there are times I *HAVE* liked it. But this episode just didn't do anything for me. Yes there was some movement in the characters of Ellison and Sarah. But, to me, the Cameron character is still too fuzzy. John's character hasn't progressed at all. But, as I believe I mentioned is last week's ep threat, I concur that BAG has been a surprise. I really do hope it is renewed, but, as many have mentioned, this is, after, all BIH-FOX.


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## Church AV Guy (Jan 19, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> She always seems to play characters that are socially challenged...Firefly, 4400, Sarah Connor...I'd be curious to see how she comes across naturally.


Then her role in The Unit was against type?

Although it isn't necessarily a fair comparison, the shows "The Bionic Woman" and "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" both were of a similar type, but I found Term... much more entertaining. I wanted to like TBW, I really did, but somehow it fell almostly completely flat. It might have been better if at least ONE character in the show was in fact likeable, but I didn't really like any of them. T:TSCC was better in that I actually liked most of them just fine. I thought the series has been pretty well paced. I certainly didn't think it was slow, or boreing. I dearly hope it's renewed--so it probably won't be.

I commented to the wife, that Cameron was able to duplicate the movements that she saw the other ballet students perform, but as a machine, she really didn't know what was pretty and what wasn't. She could identify what WE thought was pretty, and duplicate it, but if she did something "new" she would likely have to ask if it was pretty or not. Esthetics.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> Same for me, Bob. I really want the show to succeed, and I want to like it. And, honestly, there are times I *HAVE* liked it. But this episode just didn't do anything for me. Yes there was some movement in the characters of Ellison and Sarah. But, to me, the Cameron character is still too fuzzy. John's character hasn't progressed at all. But, as I believe I mentioned is last week's ep threat, I concur that BAG has been a surprise. I really do hope it is renewed, but, as many have mentioned, this is, after, all BIH-FOX.


you really can't have 40 minutes of Terminator fights every single episode.

The thing I like about the Terminator series is that it's a pretty cool story line that has a lot of potential to be fleshed out.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

If I could have 40 minutes of Terminator fights every single episode, I would be sooo happy.


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

Bob_Newhart said:


> If I could have 40 minutes of Terminator fights every single episode, I would be sooo happy.


Especially if both T's were chicks.


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## nataylor (Apr 26, 2000)

busyba said:


> Especially if both T's were chicks.


And they just came through a time portal.


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

nataylor said:


> And they just came through a time portal.


I wouldn't care where they came.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

Bob_Newhart said:


> If I could have 40 minutes of Terminator fights every single episode, I would be sooo happy.


They don't have budget enough to build all those walls to throw Terminators through.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> The thing I like about the Terminator series is that it's a pretty cool story line that has a lot of potential to be fleshed out.


Yeah, the action aspect is definitely needed, but it's the ideas behind the story that make them really exciting. I think the series has worked well in that respect, taking the basis for the first two movies and focusing on fleshing out ideas around details from them.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

jsmeeker said:


> you really can't have 40 minutes of Terminator fights every single episode....


That's not what I'm asking....just give us some consistent plotline and character development each week. This week's episode lacked that in my opinion.


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## jsmeeker (Apr 2, 2001)

Bierboy said:


> That's not what I'm asking....just give us some consistent plotline and character development each week. This week's episode lacked that in my opinion.


It developed the relationship between John and his mother. It brought Dr. Silverman into the mix. It developed the story of the FBI guy's investigation. We may have even seen Kyle's brother starting to think differently of Cameron.

you really don't need a new terminator trying to kill them with some elaborate chase and fight scene each week to accomplish this.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

This show is not a masterpiece, but it's better than 24 and Prison Break, and a heck of a lot better than the Bionic Woman. And definitely far superior to Terminator 3. As such, I'd say it's actually quite good comparatively speaking. There are a lot of problems and plot holes, but at least the overall content is fairly fresh and interesting enough to overlook the holes.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I'm not an expert at Terminator lore like some of you are--I get the idea that maybe John in the future is kind of weird and reclusive and maybe a figurehead who isn't really in charge at all? Does anyone else get this vibe?


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> I'm not an expert at Terminator lore like some of you are--I get the idea that maybe John in the future is kind of weird and reclusive and maybe a figurehead who isn't really in charge at all? Does anyone else get this vibe?


Maybe the John of the future is actually a computer named Mike.


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## hanumang (Jan 28, 2002)

jsmeeker said:


> It developed the relationship between John and his mother. It brought Dr. Silverman into the mix. It developed the story of the FBI guy's investigation. We may have even seen Kyle's brother starting to think differently of Cameron.


Yeah, I thought this episode added a lot, at least in terms of relationships.

Also, the fact that everyone who worked at Pescadero (like Dr. Silverman) now believes Sarah's rants is a _huge_ development. I'll be very surprised if they don't dip into that grab-bag down the line - provided the show is renewed, of course - for story points and (stunt) casting.

If there is anything that is annoying me about the show though, it's how they're dancing around the 'relationship' between Derek and Cameron. I mean, now that they've had the 'conversation,' I think it's only fair to spill the beans. Of course, that's probably me just being too impatient.


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## Hoffer (Jun 1, 2001)

I just wanted to give some praise for the show. I didn't know where it could go after the first episode or two, but I'm really liking the show.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

I can't believe people aren't liking this show. I haven't looked forward to watching a show this much since BSG came out. I certainly hope the pick it up.

I also agree that for any show to succeed you have to have character development and alternate plotlines. It would be pointless to have endless fight scenes.

Rob


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## danieljanderson (Nov 19, 2002)

I got a Cylon vibe from watching this episode.

Summer, doing the dancing just to experience it.......
Brian Austin Greene, watching her with disgust.
I was waiting for him to say "Fraking machine!"


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

robpickles said:


> I can't believe people aren't liking this show. I haven't looked forward to watching a show this much since BSG came out. I certainly hope the pick it up.
> 
> I also agree that for any show to succeed you have to have character development and alternate plotlines. It would be pointless to have endless fight scenes.
> 
> Rob


Agreed. And agreed.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

I wish the writers would pay more attention to time paradoxes, a strong area in Back to the Future movies. If you kill Andy Goode in current time, then you won't see him in the future admit to creating SkyNet. Doesn't mean there won't be a SkyNet, but we really need to see things change when someone changes the past.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

DouglasPHill said:


> I wish the writers would pay more attention to time paradoxes, a strong area in Back to the Future movies. If you kill Andy Goode in current time, then you won't see him in the future admit to creating SkyNet. Doesn't mean there won't be a SkyNet, but we really need to see things change when someone changes the past.


That's if time is linear. Which it is not.


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## Trent Bates (Dec 17, 2001)

DouglasPHill said:


> I wish the writers would pay more attention to time paradoxes, a strong area in Back to the Future movies. If you kill Andy Goode in current time, then you won't see him in the future admit to creating SkyNet. Doesn't mean there won't be a SkyNet, but we really need to see things change when someone changes the past.


How would that change the memories of Andy in the future for the time traveler?
In other words, the memory of Andy in the future talking about SkyNet existed in the time traveler's mind BEFORE he killed Andy. To the time traveler, it's linear.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

John needs to find Hiro to help him battle the machines!


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

danieljanderson said:


> Brian Austin Greene, watching her with disgust.


I didn't take his expression as "disgust"---more like "confusion" as in "what is that machine doing dancing for no discernible purpose?"


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

Amnesia said:


> I didn't take his expression as "disgust"---more like "confusion" as in "what is that machine doing dancing for no discernible purpose?"


I was actually asking myself the same question. Why would a machine dance? Is it to get BAG to trust her more? The episode(s) on Monday night are going to be great!

I really don't see them canceling this show. If they wanted it to fail, they would have aired them out of order and canceled the show half way through the season.


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## RoundBoy (Feb 10, 2005)

Amnesia said:


> I didn't take his expression as "disgust"---more like "confusion" as in "what is that machine doing dancing for no discernible purpose?"


Wasn't that the same music as the 'basement'? And I think its pretty obvious that BAG knew her from the basement..

I took the look as absolute horror.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Trent Bates said:


> How would that change the memories of Andy in the future for the time traveler?
> In other words, the memory of Andy in the future talking about SkyNet existed in the time traveler's mind BEFORE he killed Andy. To the time traveler, it's linear.


Thats why its called time paradox. Regarding time linear or whatever, all theories because we all simply don't know. I choose to believe the Back to the Future view.


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## Sirius Black (Dec 26, 2001)

From BAG's point of view, our future is his present and our present is his future.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/

The ultimate time paradox science-based movie. Watch and (very) close attention.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

That link took me to a movie called "Primer" Is that what you intended? In reading the description I do not see a link to time travel. Thanks


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

DouglasPHill said:


> In reading the description I do not see a link to time travel. Thanks


The movie is all about time travel.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/
> 
> The ultimate time paradox science-based movie. Watch and (very) close attention.


This movie bored me to tears.


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't remember any Paradoxes in Primer but I could be wrong. However, if you google around, you can find some truly remarkable (and seemingly very accurate) charts and theories about exactly what happened.


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## jgerry (Aug 29, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> From BAG's point of view, our future is his present and our present is his future.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/
> 
> The ultimate time paradox science-based movie. Watch and (very) close attention.


I watched this movie twice in one day. I still don't think I understood it all. Interesting premise though. Maybe my brain's just not big enough.


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## Craigbob (Dec 2, 2006)

Sirius Black said:


> Maybe the John of the future is actually a computer named Mike.


LOL!!!!


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## Trent Bates (Dec 17, 2001)

DouglasPHill said:


> Thats why its called time paradox. Regarding time linear or whatever, all theories because we all simply don't know. I choose to believe the Back to the Future view.


I think to make it a paradox, we'd need to see Greene's character handcuffed to a floor again in the future and observe what has or hasn't changed. So far, it's just a linear timeline from his character's point of view.
We can suppose that it will or won't result in a paradox, but so far the paradox hasn't occurred.

A better paradox situation would be if Andy Goode in the future was directly responsible for sending Greene's character back in time. 
If Andy of the present is then killed by the time traveler, the time traveler shouldn't have been able to go back in time to kill Andy. PARADOX!

I'm not sure I'd really classify anything we've seen in the show as a paradox situation yet. It "Back to the Future", Marty went "Back" to the future at the end of the movie and saw the changes. We haven't seen the future results yet of the present day actions by these characters.

Am I making sense?


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## Trent Bates (Dec 17, 2001)

jgerry said:


> I watched this movie twice in one day. I still don't think I understood it all.


Primer was really thought provoking! That was a difficult one to keep track of! I might hae to rent that again!


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## GadgetFreak (Jun 3, 2002)

nataylor said:


> And they just came through a time portal.





Bob_Newhart said:


> I wouldn't care where they came.


But do you care if they are clothed or not?


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

Trent Bates said:


> Primer was really thought provoking! That was a difficult one to keep track of! I might hae to rent that again!


I watched it a few times... If I remember right, there were almost 10 different "timelines" to keep track of, not to mention one where they put the time machine inside another time machine...

EDIT: Oh yeah, this link helped me out a bunch:

http://neuwanstein.fw.hu/primer_timeline.html


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

I guess you guys don't understand very well how Terminator "time travel" works.

The Future is NOT set.

IF BAG comes BACK in time to kill Andy Good and succeeds this will NOT change HIS persepective of events that ALREADY HAPPENED for HIM.

As time goes FORWARD things will NOW be different when that future time occurs again. But since BAG already came back into the past - he will be a different person or not even exist in the future.

THIS is the paradox. HOWEVER, it is not a paradox IF you base it on how the TERMINATOR time lines work and that is by ALTERNATE UNIVERSE theory (similar to BTTF) not linear/looping, instant changing, poof events have changed theories.

Get it now?

Rob


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

Let me just clarify.

"Like Back to the Future" when the time traveler goes back in time to a certain point and the timeline skews (events are changed) from that point forward.

NOT like it when things in the present alter before your eyes.

The real question is:

When an ALTERNATE timeline is created, do the other ones cease to exist or continue along their own lines? This is the only way i can assume SkyNet is able to keep sending Terminators into the past OR they are just not altering the timeline ENOUGH to defeat SkyNet for good.

Rob


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

robpickles said:


> _(...)_ OR they are just not altering the timeline ENOUGH to defeat SkyNet for good.


This is what's happening.

In the show pilot, Cameron disclosed that the actions of _T2_ pushed back Judgment Day, but didn't completely cancel it. That's why SkyNet was able to keep sending terminators back...


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## EchoBravo (Apr 20, 2002)

The above always bugged me, because it's such a direct ripoff of this:










Did Star Trek steal it, too?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

milo99 said:


> ok, was it just me, or was there a huge mess up with the date of that video? Did she say it was june (or july?) 1997? Um, didn't they escape in 1991?? Judgement day was in 1997 "originally" ...and in the beginning of this series, didn't it start in 1997 before they time warped?


I don't know about the timeline of the movies, but the pilot episode of the TV show took place in 1999, so it makes perfect sense.


robpickles said:


> I was wondering about the "rain". I found it a little convienent that it started raining just in time to put out the burning cabin. Could it be possible that it was not rain at all and Sarah turned on a hose or something to help put out the fire when she went in to save the FBI guy?
> 
> Rob


Rain didn't put out the fire. I assume the cabin burned to the ground. There was nothing to indicate that it didn't.


danieljanderson said:


> I got a Cylon vibe from watching this episode.
> 
> Summer, doing the dancing just to experience it.......
> Brian Austin Greene, watching her with disgust.
> I was waiting for him to say "Fraking machine!"


Why did you think he was watching with disgust? I thought it was some kind of weird admiration and maybe realization that he's been wrong about her.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

why did John Connor insist on going to school? I wonder if there's a girl he likes...

why did the doctor try to kill the FBI agent? the guy clearly was open to the idea that the story is true...

I was annoyed that the doctor didn't have a bruise on his face when he woke up...

who is the actress that played the russian's sister? she looked very familiar...


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

Anubys said:


> who is the actress that played the russian's sister? she looked very familiar...


Angela Gots

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0331854/


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

I think this is appropiate:

Terminator 2 will be on TV twice later this week

Wed. Mar. 5	8:00 PM	AMC 
Thur. Mar. 6	5:00 PM	AMC


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## Amnesia (Jan 30, 2005)

You should have said that it will be on at:
Thur. Mar. 6 5:00 PM AMC

and then again at:
Wed. Mar. 5 8:00 PM AMC


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## ihatecable (Apr 16, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why did you think he was watching with disgust? I thought it was some kind of weird admiration and maybe realization that he's been wrong about her.


+1 Which confused the hell out of me because I thought it was completely inconsistent with his character. I would have thought his thoughts where: 1) Summinator dancing was her luring everyone into a false sense of security or 2) the machine is fraking busted.

PS: What's with the obsession of pancakes on this show?


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

ihatecable said:


> PS: Whats with the obsession of pancakes on this show?


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## busyba (Feb 5, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why did you think he was watching with disgust? I thought it was some kind of weird admiration and maybe realization that he's been wrong about her.


I saw confusion and anguish and about a half-dozen other complex emotions in there.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

busyba said:


> I saw confusion and anguish and about a half-dozen other complex emotions in there.


we're not talking Robert De Niro here 

chances are he did not convey the right emotion or that whatever he tried to convey can be changed to anything the writers want in the future!

FWIW: if he had been tortured while she danced to that music, the correct response would have been fear/vomit/panic...


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## classicX (May 10, 2006)

Amnesia said:


> I didn't take his expression as "disgust"---more like "confusion" as in "what is that machine doing dancing for no discernible purpose?"


I took his expression to be more pained than anything, as if it were inconceivable that she/it would do something like that, especially when the very act of doing it is arguably what makes us human.


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## robpickles (May 19, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Rain didn't put out the fire. I assume the cabin burned to the ground. There was nothing to indicate that it didn't.


Do you mean except for the fact that it was still standing there in tact when the FBI guy walked around the doctor laying on the floor?

Rob


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## Waldorf (Oct 4, 2002)

classicX said:


> I took his expression to be more pained than anything, as if it were inconceivable that she/it would do something like that, especially when the very act of doing it is arguably what makes us human.


Can anyone confirm/deny that it's the same music they are led to (and presumably tortured) in the future? When they're chained to the floor in that building and taken downstairs?


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## Tangent (Feb 25, 2005)

GadgetFreak said:


> But do you care if they are clothed or not?


I believe Bob_Newhart was using the other definition for "came"...


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## Bob_Newhart (Jul 14, 2004)

Tangent said:


> I believe Bob_Newhart was using the other defenition for "came"...


Clap. Clap. Clap.

That only took a week. :up:


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

MickeS said:


> I was thinking the same thing while watching this episode. And honestly, I think she kind of looks "retarded" in her face, to use a crude term.


I've always thought her face looked kind of "flat". Sort of like someone with Downs, but not that extreme.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

busyba said:


> It was weird though, the first ballet scene, when she goes to do that "cat" move, they cut to a wide shot from behind, angled so you can't see her front in the mirror, and her head whips around too fast for you to see it. That's the kind of staging you use when you are using a double and you want to disguise it. I wouldn't think they would need a double for that, given her training.


I noticed that too, and puzzled over it.


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## Robin (Dec 6, 2001)

Sirius Black said:


> I was actually asking myself the same question. Why would a machine dance? Is it to get BAG to trust her more?


I think she's trying to figure out what she did "wrong". The instructor said she was technically good, but too mechanical. She's used to imitating everything perfectly.


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## LaLongeCarabine (Mar 6, 2008)

Robin said:


> I think she's trying to figure out what she did "wrong". The instructor said she was technically good, but too mechanical. She's used to imitating everything perfectly.


I loved the line, "You are a cat." and Cameron's replie "I'm a cat?"
Like she was saying WTF!?! I'm cat, you're off your chump if you think I'm a cat, I freaking alloy combat cassis and can rip your head completly off, cat my a$$. At lot to process for a robot when you think about it.

PS Robin I love your sig, I laugh everytime I read it.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

LaLongeCarabine got his 1 YAMM!!!

Greg


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