# Cablevision NDS Users - Survey



## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

I wanted to start this thread to get some feedback primarily from Cablevision customers that are using an NDS CableCard with their Roamio Plus/Pro. There are other threads related to this that have troubleshooting tips, comments from other types of CableCard users, etc. -- But I am trying to get a rough idea of how widespread certain issues are.

1) Do you experience frequent macroblocking with your Roamio Pro/Plus?

2) Do you also have other devices in the house (i.e. Cablevision set top boxes, other CableCard devices besides Tivo, etc.) that do not exhibit macroblocking?

3) Do you have Tivo Suggestions turned on or off?

4) Does your Tivo often show multiple tuners tuned to the same channel? (Checked by pressing Info, and then arrow down to view all 6 tuners)

5) If you do experience macroblocking, does it occur more frequently/severe when multiple tuners are tuned to the same channel?

I've been working with both Tivo and Cablevision with this issue, and Tivo appears to be downplaying the problem - while Cablevision has reproduced some of the issues in their own labs. Trying to get an idea of what people are really experiencing in regards to this.

Thanks,
Rick


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## blacknoi (Jan 23, 2006)

I have cablevision with NDS cards. 

I have 1 Roamio Pro, 1 Roamio Base and 2 minis, both attached to the PRO. I also have a HD HomeRun Prime with a Mstream card in it and a SingleStream card plugged into a 10 year old DLP rear projection TV.

>> 1) Do you experience frequent macroblocking with your Roamio Pro/Plus?

I wouldn't say frequent, more like moderate to occasional. Not every channel either.

2) Do you also have other devices in the house (i.e. Cablevision set top boxes, other CableCard devices besides Tivo, etc.) that do not exhibit macroblocking?

No Cablevision STBs, just as I mentioned above, tivos, tivo minis and HDHomeRun prime. I will say that the HDHomeRun prime doesn't experience as MANY macroblocking episodes but does do it SOMETIMES.

>> 3) Do you have Tivo Suggestions turned on or off?

Off on the PRO, On, on the base roamio.

>> 4) Does your Tivo often show multiple tuners tuned to the same channel? (Checked by pressing Info, and then arrow down to view all 6 tuners)

Not often, just sometimes, and more often on my roamio base (which doesn't have as many OnePasses.

>> 5) If you do experience macroblocking, does it occur more frequently/severe when multiple tuners are tuned to the same channel?

No.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

blacknoi said:


> I have cablevision with NDS cards.
> 
> >> 3) Do you have Tivo Suggestions turned on or off?
> 
> Off on the PRO, On, on the base roamio.


Curious if you turned Suggestions on on the Pro and left it for a few days if your experience with some of the other questions would change.


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## Railmanm (May 20, 2015)

I'm about three weeks into my Roamio pro. I'm on cablevisions Woodbury system using Nds card. My first two weeks were pretty good but now starting to get random macro blocking, random v58 messages and sometimes a gray screen with (04) saying channel not authorized. Now I'll try to answer your survey.

1) Do you experience frequent macroblocking with your Roamio Pro/Plus?

The first two weeks it seemed to be once in a while now becoming more frequent. Seems like if I tune to same channel in sd I don't see it. It will show up on the hd channel.

2) Do you also have other devices in the house (i.e. Cablevision set top boxes, other CableCard devices besides Tivo, etc.) that do not exhibit macroblocking?

Have one TiVo mini which that will show it. Also have four set top boxes that I don't notice it on.

3) Do you have Tivo Suggestions turned on or off?

I have it turned on but did turn off for awhile and still would see it.

4) Does your Tivo often show multiple tuners tuned to the same channel? (Checked by pressing Info, and then arrow down to view all 6 tuners)

Yes I have noticed that the same channel might be on at least two tuners. 

5) If you do experience macroblocking, does it occur more frequently/severe when multiple tuners are tuned to the same channel?

Yes it does seem to. After restarting the Roamio the macro blocking was real bad and noticed all six tuners on same channel.

One other thing I feel like it doesn't seem to happen when watching one of the major networks only cable and movie channels. Hope they solve this issue. I was very happy my first two weeks but for some reason it seems to have gotten worse. Hope this helps.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

Railmanm said:


> One other thing I feel like it doesn't seem to happen when watching one of the major networks only cable and movie channels. Hope they solve this issue. I was very happy my first two weeks but for some reason it seems to have gotten worse. Hope this helps.


Yeah, my issues don't occur on non-encrypted channels (Broadcast)

Thanks for the feedback -- seems to be very similar to what I see.. Tivo engineering has said "there is no obligation on the part of the Tivo to ensure multiple tuners aren't on the same channel". At the same time, the NDS card is corrupting data during the decryption and/or re-encryption process - and the fact that the Tivo may be tuned to the same channel on multiple tuners amplifies the problem.. So, its both CV/Cisco (NDS) that need to get their act together.. Right now both of them are blaming the other.


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## LI-SVT (Sep 28, 2006)

I have a base Roamio with Cablevision NDS cards.



RickNY said:


> I wanted to start this thread to get some feedback primarily from Cablevision customers that are using an NDS CableCard with their Roamio Plus/Pro. There are other threads related to this that have troubleshooting tips, comments from other types of CableCard users, etc. -- But I am trying to get a rough idea of how widespread certain issues are.
> 
> 1) Do you experience frequent macroblocking with your Roamio Pro/Plus?
> --Yes
> ...


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

LI-SVT said:


> I have a base Roamio with Cablevision NDS cards.


Thanks.. Good to see people with base Roamios are also seeing similar things.


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## Railmanm (May 20, 2015)

RickNY said:


> Yeah, my issues don't occur on non-encrypted channels (Broadcast)
> 
> Thanks for the feedback -- seems to be very similar to what I see.. Tivo engineering has said "there is no obligation on the part of the Tivo to ensure multiple tuners aren't on the same channel". At the same time, the NDS card is corrupting data during the decryption and/or re-encryption process - and the fact that the Tivo may be tuned to the same channel on multiple tuners amplifies the problem.. So, its both CV/Cisco (NDS) that need to get their act together.. Right now both of them are blaming the other.


I'm surprised that more people aren't posting here about these issues. I've been starting to notice something that I didn't seem to notice when I first got my roamio pro. It now seems that over night my tuners if not all at least 4-5 of them wind up on the same channel. I know that the night before they were all tuned to different channels so for some reason they are changing on there own. I always know when it happens because macro-blocking is much worse. To me this has to be a TiVo problem that the tuners would go to same channel on their own. I don't have standby function on not that it should make a difference.


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

There are two things that can easily put multiple tuners on the same channel. One is a reboot. After a Roamio reboots ALL SIX tuners will be on the same channel (I think whichever was last in the foreground).

The other thing that can cause it is watching a channel on a Mini and then turning off that TV and tuning to the same channel on the Roamio. Unless you go to Tivo Central on the Mini before you leave it, the Mini holds on to the tuner for a few hours. The Roamio doesn't know you are not still watching that channel, so when you try to tune to the same channel on the Roamio it grabs another tuner to do so.

If you find all of your tuners on the same channel in the morning it means your TiVo is probably rebooting over night. That's normal for a software update but shouldn't happen every night.


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## RickNY (Sep 17, 2007)

Diana Collins said:


> If you find all of your tuners on the same channel in the morning it means your TiVo is probably rebooting over night. That's normal for a software update but shouldn't happen every night.


Diana -- I know at least in my case, it is not due to reboots. I've verified this by going to the diagnostic screen and checking "Time since OOB Tune Start" -- which will, at the least -- tell you the time since the Tivo last lost the cable signal. It is reset during a reboot.. It also resets if you remove and re-insert the CableCard.

In my case, I do have a Mini -- but it is in the bedroom and is never used simultaneously with our Roamio Pro. When we've finished watching TV on our Roamio Plus, we retire to the bedroom and the Mini is tuned, usually, to TV Land, (which we rarely watch on the den Roamio Plus). It eventually idles out before we watch on the Roamio Plus again.

Tivo Engineering has reported to me this specific information:
a) Engineering is aware that there are circumstances that will cause multiple tuners to be on the same channel other than a reboot 
-AND-
b) The Tivo software is "under no obligation to ensure multiple tuners are tuned to different channels"

I have an open case with a contact at both Tivo Engineering and Cablevision since December 2014 on this issue. It is both comical and sad that both companies are STILL telling me a) YES, there is a problem and b) It is the other company's fault.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

RickNY said:


> Diana -- I know at least in my case, it is not due to reboots. I've verified this by going to the diagnostic screen and checking "Time since OOB Tune Start" -- which will, at the least -- tell you the time since the Tivo last lost the cable signal. It is reset during a reboot.. It also resets if you remove and re-insert the CableCard.


What you say is true. But that makes me wonder if the individual channel timers are all the same. That would indicate something you can not cause made them tune the same channel. A very strange problem indeed.


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## Railmanm (May 20, 2015)

I have to agree with Rick. I just noticed tonight when I turned on my tv I had 3 tuners on the same channel. I went through and changed channels so every tuner was on a different channel. After an hour or so I checked again and noticed 2 tuners on same channel another pair of tuners on same channel but different from first pair. This makes no sense if they were all on different channels why would they change?


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

Railmanm said:


> I have to agree with Rick. I just noticed tonight when I turned on my tv I had 3 tuners on the same channel. I went through and changed channels so every tuner was on a different channel. After an hour or so I checked again and noticed 2 tuners on same channel another pair of tuners on same channel but different from first pair. This makes no sense if they were all on different channels why would they change?


Until TiVo fixes their single-tuner overlap logic (if they ever do), overlapping recordings can cause two tuners to end up on the same channel. Has that been mentioned lately?


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## frogli (Mar 29, 2004)

I got a roamio about 3 weeks ago and have been having the pixelation up in the CH 820 824 range. levels sitting at 88 and SNR sitting at 34. Tivo is now sending me a new Roamio Pro.


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