# channel change several minutes into a recording



## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

In recent days I've noticed that my TiVo has started behaving oddly when it comes to channel changes. I can look at a 30 minute recording and rather than see the channel change happen in the first couple of seconds, sometimes it can happen 10-20 minutes into the recording. This of course means that if I wasn't coincidentally on the correct channel to start with, then I'm only getting the last 10-20 minutes of the program.

It also happens sometimes when I just press the + channel change button. I've also seen that sometimes I'll press the tivo button, or the live-tv button and nothing at all happens. Then, up to perhaps a minute or two later, it comes back to life and will perform all the actions I'd done.

It's had about 3-4 years out of this 250gb samsung drive, so maybe it's had it's day and needs replacing. I wouldn't like to replace it only to find out that it was unlikely to have been the problem.

Channel changes are being done without an IR blaster, it's one of those RF2 things that changes channel directly through the RF port.

I'm using a fairly new Amstrad box, but I've seen the same behaviour on a new Pace box too, so I don't suspect the digibox.


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## Cainam (May 25, 2004)

Even though you are changing channels using a SkyEye thing on RF2, I am fairly certain it still looks for stray infra red signals hrough the front port BEFORE sending the channel change request through the SkyEye.

So my advice would be to look for stray IR. Remote control falling between the cushions? Remote control under a magazine? Any new changes to light sources (e.g. energy saving bulbs nearby)? Video Sender thing plugged in?

Failing that it could even be a button stuck down on one of your other remotes. Try having a look at the remotes with a digital camera, which should show up the infra red.

Cainam


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Cainam said:


> Even though you are changing channels using a SkyEye thing on RF2, I am fairly certain it still looks for stray infra red signals hrough the front port BEFORE sending the channel change request through the SkyEye.
> 
> So my advice would be to look for stray IR. Remote control falling between the cushions? Remote control under a magazine? Any new changes to light sources (e.g. energy saving bulbs nearby)? Video Sender thing plugged in?
> 
> ...


Thanks Cainam. I didn't realise it would wait before sending the channel change if it's receiving a lot of noise through the front port. I'm gonna build a little cardboard protector around it. I currently have an IR blaster pointing at the TiVo itself because the remote signals from another room are being relayed to it. I hadn't suspected this as a culprit because it was timed recordings that were mostly being a problem, and in that case, the IR blaster wasn't involved. Now I know that IR going "to" the TiVo can cause a problem, I'll focus on that.

I'll report back with my findings.

Edit: Got around to building a housing/protector from card. Probably need to wait a few days to see if it solves the problem.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Cainam said:


> Even though you are changing channels using a SkyEye thing on RF2, I am fairly certain it still looks for stray infra red signals hrough the front port BEFORE sending the channel change request through the SkyEye.
> 
> So my advice would be to look for stray IR.
> 
> Cainam


That was it, thanks a lot.

Turns out it was the IR extender I was using to send my TiVo signals from one room into the room the TiVo is in. When I unplugged the IR blaster for a day, all the recordings were perfect (with the channel change happening perfectly efficiently). As soon as I plugged it back in, the delays re-occurred.

Instead of blasting only the IR keypresses of the TiVo remote along and blasting just that signal out, it was blasting so much that (as you said) the TiVo was trying to handle all the stray signals it was blasting. I imagine it was blasting extra stuff because of the RF picking up extra noise along the way and converting that back into IR signals.

I just ordered a separate IR extender on a completely different frequency so I'm hoping that won't blast out anything other than what it receives.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Update: I got a new IR extender. Plugged it in, arranged the IR blaster part about an inch in front of the TiVo IR window. All worked perfectly. No delayed channel changes, everything perfect.

Until later that evening when the same problem started happening again. As long as the IR blaster is switched on and blasting, the TiVo goes into an overload situation and it won't respond to remote signals even when they're sent in the same room. I no longer have a camera that has infra-red mode (I threw out my old Sony digicam about a month ago, D'oh!) so I can't see the barrage of signals it must be receiving.

I know that the IR extender "sender" isn't sending any bad signals. There's an LED on it that lights briefly when it receives a signal that it should relay via RF to the "receiver" and that LED only lights when I press a remote. So I'm fairly sure the sender is good. Besides, I've tried unplugging the sender and it makes no difference. The problem must be on the receiver/blaster side.

So, either the IR blaster is receiving a lot of RF noise and converting that into IR noise. Or there's some kind of bouncing of signals going on or something I can't explain.

If I have the IR blaster very close, it works as a blaster (when it's not in the overload condition). If I move it too far away, it stops working as a blaster anymore, and the TiVo is of course happy about that so it doesn't get into it's overload condition.

I'm wondering if there's a happy sweet-spot where it still blasts but doesn't cause overload. If the theory of the Receiver/blaster converting RF noise into IR noise is true, then there won't be a sweet-spot. There can't be.


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## laurence (Jun 17, 2007)

Hi!
I've had loads of these problems with ir blasting. Here are some things to look at...
Do you have a large LCD or plasma tv in a room where there is an ir receiver? If so, that could be sending low level ir.
One of the ir blasters I use is quite sensitive to rf and if it's too close to the hifi/TiVo then it dribbles ir which stops it working. I've got a ps3 that it really doesn't get on with. I solved that by moving it away and plugging an ir eye into it. I have a marmitek blaster which is less sensitive, but as a result, it doesn't reliably pick up the rf it's supposed to.
Also had so e problems with mains leads too close to a blaster.
Hope some of that helps!


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Hi!
> I've had loads of these problems with ir blasting. Here are some things to look at...
> Do you have a large LCD or plasma tv in a room where there is an ir receiver? If so, that could be sending low level ir.
> One of the ir blasters I use is quite sensitive to rf and if it's too close to the hifi/TiVo then it dribbles ir which stops it working. I've got a ps3 that it really doesn't get on with. I solved that by moving it away and plugging an ir eye into it. I have a marmitek blaster which is less sensitive, but as a result, it doesn't reliably pick up the rf it's supposed to.
> ...


Thanks, I hadn't considered the mains leads.

I've been trying all kinds of things over the last hour. I've noticed that it won't go into IR overload by itself, which indicates that it's not receiving stray RF or being affected by mains. It's only when I go into 'the sending room' and try a channel change that things start to go wrong. When I go back into the TiVo room I see that not only has the channel not changed, but it's gone into this overload mode. It won't accept TiVo remote signals direct from the remote even. It's only when I unplug the IR blaster (from it's IR receiver) that the TiVo immediately starts doing the channel change it got 30 seconds earlier. If I hadn't sent that channel change, and the IR blaster was just sat there doing nothing (but being open to receiving random RF/mains interference) then it won't go into overload.

I'm thinking I should give up on this particular frequency of RF (433MHz). I've got to look for something else. It might involve buying something from America perhaps.

My only IR relay solution that's working right now is the following:

Mobile Phone -> WLAN -> TiVoWeb -> WebRemote

That'll have to do until I can find something better.


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## laurence (Jun 17, 2007)

Yup, that's exactly what happened with mine. It would be ok until I sent a command, then it would start chattering away to the TiVo and any other device in the room that spoke ir. Powering off and on would shut it up - until I sent it another command. Moving it away from the equipment solved it.
Do you have an ir eye/emitter plugged in? If so, make sure any unused eyes are covered up with tape or something.
The blaster I got from the states has a sensitivity switch inside that you can use to reduce sensitivity (good at stating the bleedin' obvious me). That stopped interference for me, but also reduced the range too much.
The marmitek solution is very tidy (tiny transmitters that work on 2 aa batteries) and it doesn't suffer much from interference compared to the American thing which I've forgotten the name of. Interestingly, they're compatible with each other, so I'm using marmitek rf sender with the American ir blaster.
If there was a really tidy non rf option, I'd change to it, but I've yet to find one. Any suggestions?


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Yup, that's exactly what happened with mine. It would be ok until I sent a command, then it would start chattering away to the TiVo and any other device in the room that spoke ir. Powering off and on would shut it up - until I sent it another command. Moving it away from the equipment solved it.
> Do you have an ir eye/emitter plugged in? If so, make sure any unused eyes are covered up with tape or something.
> The blaster I got from the states has a sensitivity switch inside that you can use to reduce sensitivity (good at stating the bleedin' obvious me). That stopped interference for me, but also reduced the range too much.
> The marmitek solution is very tidy (tiny transmitters that work on 2 aa batteries) and it doesn't suffer much from interference compared to the American thing which I've forgotten the name of. Interestingly, they're compatible with each other, so I'm using marmitek rf sender with the American ir blaster.
> If there was a really tidy non rf option, I'd change to it, but I've yet to find one. Any suggestions?


I've got a SkyEye thing (I think they're called) but that's plugged directly into the back of the Sky box's RF2 output (yes, output). There's no IR involved in that at all.

I'm intrigued about the marmitek solution. Do you have model numbers, or a link to where you got it? I've found a whole bunch of marmitek products on ebay and amazon, but none of them look like "tiny" things that use AAs.

In the meantime, I just ordered an Archos 7 which has an 800x480 screen and WiFi and browser, so I can at least use that rather than my phone (which wasn't working all that well with it's tiny screen). I wanted a "sofa browser" for a while, and my portable media player died a death a couple of years ago, so I've been considering getting an Archos for a while. This extra use I've got for it tipped me over the edge 

Anyone has any better IR extender suggestions, yes please.


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## iankb (Oct 9, 2000)

I used to have a video sender which had adjustable RF reception to cut out RF interference. There was a small hole on the back which you could poke a small screwdriver down.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

iankb said:


> I used to have a video sender which had adjustable RF reception to cut out RF interference. There was a small hole on the back which you could poke a small screwdriver down.


Good tip, I'm gonna go see if I've got any small holes I can stick screwdrivers into.


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## laurence (Jun 17, 2007)

The marmitek I'm using is called an xs I think. The rf tranmitters works on 2aa batteries and the ir blaster has an adaptor. They sell the ir receivers separately, so you can add them to use in other rooms.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> The marmitek I'm using is called an xs I think. The rf tranmitters works on 2aa batteries and the ir blaster has an adaptor. They sell the ir receivers separately, so you can add them to use in other rooms.


Thanks. I just found them here. Now I've seen 'em I can shop around


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Ordered myself some marmitek xs kit from amazon. I ordered a regular transmitter/receiver pair. Then added two additional transmitters and an additional xl receiver. The extra transmitters will come in handy in different places. The extra receiver is just so I have an option. Maybe one of the receivers is better than the other.

Even if this doesn't solve my problem, it's always good to have a bunch of things like this available. I always find uses for these things


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## mrtickle (Aug 26, 2001)

iankb said:


> I used to have a video sender which had adjustable RF reception to cut out RF interference. There was a small hole on the back which you could poke a small screwdriver down.


The lack of such an adjustment is my main bugbear with the Powermids.


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## AMc (Mar 22, 2002)

b166er said:


> I no longer have a camera that has infra-red mode (I threw out my old Sony digicam about a month ago, D'oh!) so I can't see the barrage of signals it must be receiving.


FWIW you don't need a dedicated Infra Red mode on the camera, most digital cameras and phone cameras are sensitive enough to IR to show a white dot on an active emitter.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Search forums for "ferrite".

I had horrendous channel changing issues with "dibbling IR" from a Marmetek video sender. Putting ferrites on various leads eg PSU lead, screening the video sender power lead lead and moving the video sender away from every other piece of equipment worked for me, until the receiving end died.

I am now using a B&Q video sender I was given and works fine, better than the Marmatek unit it replaced.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

AMc said:


> FWIW you don't need a dedicated Infra Red mode on the camera, most digital cameras and phone cameras are sensitive enough to IR to show a white dot on an active emitter.


That was a surprise. The IR shows up nicely on my Canon G11. Like you said though "FWIW". It was interesting to see but ultimately didn't lead to a solution. It wasn't as wild an IR frenzy as I thought it might be. If the new IR extenders due to arrive tomorrow don't help, this IR visibility might become part of ongoing investigations.



Ian_m said:


> Search forums for "ferrite".
> 
> I had horrendous channel changing issues with "dibbling IR" from a Marmetek video sender. Putting ferrites on various leads eg PSU lead, screening the video sender power lead lead and moving the video sender away from every other piece of equipment worked for me, until the receiving end died.
> 
> I am now using a B&Q video sender I was given and works fine, better than the Marmatek unit it replaced.


That's an idea. I have several things using only two-prong (German) power leads. I've already eliminated the IR sender as the cause because even when I switch it off, the TiVo still stays in this confused/blocked state.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Well. Disappointment from the Marmiteks. They're small and cute though, I can see them being used for something in the next year or two anyway. No regrets there really.

I also tried ferrite cores on the cables. No joy.

Right now I've gone back to what I first had. The original 5.8GHz Video sender that has built-in IR send-back. When I was getting the IR overload, it was when I was using a third-party IR blaster plugged into this Video Sender. Now I've gone back to the original flimsy IR blasters it came with (that I couldn't get to work at the beginning). I've got them working now. As of right now, there's no IR overload happening. As I've learned in the past though, things change. I might be back tomorrow saying this current solution has turned bad. If it does, I'm gonna stick with using webremote via my phone or the Archos 7 that just arrived today


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

b166er said:


> I've got them working now. As of right now, there's no IR overload happening. As I've learned in the past though, things change. I might be back tomorrow saying this current solution has turned bad. If it does, I'm gonna stick with using webremote via my phone or the Archos 7 that just arrived today


Should have expected it really. What worked earlier has now stopped working 7 or 8 hours later, despite not being touched. Oh well. I'm going to have to stick with using webremote either via my phone or Archos 7. Too much to expect to be able to extend IR from one room to another on the same floor that isn't even far away 

...and then 5 mins later it worked. So it's a bit unreliable. Might need to move the IR blaster a bit closer (it's currently 6" away). I might find a happy sweet spot.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

My mate had major trouble trying to get wireless video senders working in his house, suffered IR control issues (Humax annd Sky box ?), picture was ok'ish but was unable to get IR bit to work relieably.

He eventually admited defeat and changed to RGB over cat 5 cable. Is expensive to buy the transmitter and receiver, cable is cheap and of course means wiring....but picture is top notch (RGB SCART) and IR remote works 100%. Not too sure where he got the bits.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Ian_m said:


> My mate had major trouble trying to get wireless video senders working in his house, suffered IR control issues (Humax annd Sky box ?), picture was ok'ish but was unable to get IR bit to work relieably.
> 
> He eventually admited defeat and changed to RGB over cat 5 cable. Is expensive to buy the transmitter and receiver, cable is cheap and of course means wiring....but picture is top notch (RGB SCART) and IR remote works 100%. Not too sure where he got the bits.


The Video sending part is working perfectly acceptably. I won't say it's perfect, but it'll do for me. There's no way of relaying the IR via cable though, is there? Not that cable is an option for me. I'm not drilling holes in walls, and that's the only way I'd get a cable between these two rooms. It'll be interesting to know if your mate did manage to solve IR with cables.


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

b166er said:


> ...It'll be interesting to know if your mate did manage to solve IR with cables.


Yes it does IR as well. They were something like Kat 5 boxes. I was convinced they did RGB + audio + IR, but a quick web search reveals Kat 5 is S-vid (or composite) + audio + IR only, so I might be wrong about RGB.

Can't contact him about the details as he is lost in the snow somewhere in Hampshire....


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

The Tv Link Plus transmits the IR via the coax along with the tivo picture, and you may already have the aerial coax in the wall...


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

mikerr said:


> The Tv Link Plus transmits the IR via the coax along with the tivo picture, and you may already have the aerial coax in the wall...


Sadly no coax anywhere. A version that works over mains electricity (Video one way, IR other way) is ideally what I'd want. Or one that uses a LAN or even WLAN would be even better  I already have a Mains LAN bridge between the two rooms and that's letting the TiVo get it's EPG updates. It would be nice to be sending Video and IR along it too. It doesn't seem like anyone makes any of these products. Considering how many people have problems with video quality and IR reliability there maybe a market for such a device. One for LAN and one for Mains.


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

A bit OTT maybe, but the Sling Catcher + SlingBox seems to do what you want:

http://www.slingbox.com/go/slingcatcher

Note the SlingLink is just homeplug/powerline/mains networking.


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

mikerr said:


> A bit OTT maybe, but the Sling Catcher + SlingBox seems to do what you want:
> 
> http://www.slingbox.com/go/slingcatcher
> 
> Note the SlingLink is just homeplug/powerline/mains networking.


Good idea, but ultimately it's going to have to blast IR at the TiVo (as would any solution regardless of how the signal was relayed from one room to another). It seems that my TiVo can't handle being blasted at. It's happy to do the blasting to other devices, but when it comes to being blasted, it doesn't like it and has a hissy fit.


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

Ian_m said:


> Yes it does IR as well. They were something like Kat 5 boxes. I was convinced they did RGB + audio + IR, but a quick web search reveals Kat 5 is S-vid (or composite) + audio + IR only, so I might be wrong about RGB.
> 
> Can't contact him about the details as he is lost in the snow somewhere in Hampshire....


<blatant plug>

I also do an RGB version of KAT5 but without audio as all 4 pairs in the cable are used for the 4 video signals. The RGB units can be used for HD Component with SPDIF Digital Audio 

</blatant plug>


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## Ian_m (Jan 9, 2001)

Ian_m said:


> Yes it does IR as well. They were something like Kat 5 boxes. I was convinced they did RGB + audio + IR, but a quick web search reveals Kat 5 is S-vid (or composite) + audio + IR only, so I might be wrong about RGB.


He has a cat5 trasmitter and receiver kit from Keene Electronics, cost about £130 (+cable) couple of years ago, these actually only do S-video + audio + IR.

Currently he is using only composite + audio. He got RGB -> S-video and S-video -> RGB (Maplin about £30 each) but considering the TV he was piping to (18" CRT) didn't increase picture quality considerably so returned the units to Maplin and now just runs with composite just fine.

When I redecorated my lounge last year I meant to install cat 5 from TV area up wall, via fitted cupboard upstrairs across loft and down to TV in bedroom to replace wireless sender, after seeing my friends experience, but in rush to finish lounge forgot..


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## b166er (Oct 24, 2003)

Re: my original problem

I tried various different IR sender/receiver pairings with various IR blasters plugged into them, and the most reliable one seems to be the original IR sendback from my 5.8GHz video sender. This time I'm using it's original flimsy little double IR blaster (which at first I never twigged as to why it had 2 blaster units on the cable). I originally rejected this because it was only 80&#37; reliable when it comes to keys I pressed. One out of 5 buttons I pressed on the remote didn't go through. So I began a quest into finding perfection. I did find it in terms of some of the others being 100% reliable initially, but they'd always ultimately end up causing the TiVo to get into a confused state with over-blasting.

Now I'm back to the original IR blaster from the original sender and I'm happy to live with 4 out of 5 of the keys I press making it through just fine. I get immediate feedback as I'm pressing the keys so having to retry 1 in 5 isn't all that bad. Certainly when compared to freeze-up mode, this is a great compromise. If I were to strive for 100% reliability, I might cross that line that brings me back to locking up the TiVo so I'm not going to try.


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