# Switching from SKY! What are my options?



## taoy (Sep 18, 2004)

That time has come. Me and my tivo have had a special relationship with SKY for 6 years now! However, we are moving to a small place in London, and I can't work out how I'm going to mount a satelite dish on the house. We're probably going to have to switch to another carrier, cable or something.

Does anyone have any recommendations as to who is good, and who works well with Tivo... I don't want to have to give my tivo up. :/.

Joe


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Your alternative options to Sky with Tivo in London seem to be the following:-

Freeview, Virgin Media (formerly NTL) or HomeChoice.

All of these work with a Tivo, although some Virgin Media boxes require a cable adapter for the IR channel changing. However these can be obtained at www.tivoland.com or on Ebay.

For Freeview boxes its important to get one where the automated features such as auto software updating can be turned off as if these cut in unexpectedly they can mess up Tivo recording.

The Wharfedale 832BN from Argos has been highly recommended for Tivo use but I don't know if its still available.

HomeChoice can't really be recommended as the box turns itself off in to standby after 6 hours and this feature cannot be over-ridden. The only way round this is to have a bottom priority manual season pass for a once an hour recording of say 5 minutes.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> Virgin Media (formerly NTL)


No. Formerly either NTL or Telewest, depending on whoever had the franchise in any given area


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## Prat77 (Apr 14, 2007)

Pete77 said:


> HomeChoice


No. It's Tiscali.

taoy, I'd recommend Freeview unless you need Sky Sports or Movies.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Prat77 said:


> No. It's Tiscali.


So the point of the Prat77 secondary forum member id is apparently to only use it when I make a mistake and to thereby make a veiled statement that I am a Prat while not putting that in the actual post?

OK I admit that I was out of date not to call the service Tiscali Video on Demand Broadband (doesn't have quite the same ring about it as HomeChoice does it) but is still the same tv service and the URL www.homechoice.co.uk still gets you there and the word Homechoice is still mentioned on the website.

Well Prat77 its time to go in to hibernation again until you spot my next factual posting error.


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## Prat77 (Apr 14, 2007)

Pete77 said:


> So the point of the Prat77 secondary forum member id is apparently to only use it when I make a mistake and to thereby make a veiled statement that I am a Prat while not putting that in the actual post?


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5209364&&#post5209364 ???

I was only trying to be helpful to the original poster - thought this was what the forum was about 

Apologies if I caused any unintended offense.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I bet you don't post again until you see another of my errors though.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

Won't be long to wait, I imagine.


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## ndunlavey (Jun 4, 2002)

taoy said:


> That time has come. Me and my tivo have had a special relationship with SKY for 6 years now! However, we are moving to a small place in London, and I can't work out how I'm going to mount a satelite dish on the house. We're probably going to have to switch to another carrier, cable or something.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations as to who is good, and who works well with Tivo... I don't want to have to give my tivo up. :/.
> 
> Joe


To get this back on thread...

Do you watch any Sky channels that aren't available on Freeview? I worried about giving up Sky, but found that when I moved to Freeview I just wasn't missing anything. The odd things that Sky showed that I did watch that weren't already on a Freeview channel (Enterprise springs to mind, and possibly now Heroes, depending on how good that is tonight) made their way there in the end - that doesn't seem to be anything of merit that never makes it to proper telly.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ndunlavey said:


> Heroes, depending on how good that is tonight) made their way they in the end - that doesn't seem to be anything of merit that never makes it to proper telly.


Its only the live sports like Premier Football, Test Cricket, Paris-Dakar Rally etc for which your only real option is to view on one of Sky's subscription tv packages. Also the timeliness of viewing is critical with live sports.

But leaving the above question aside there are more FTA channels on Sky Freesat that are not on Freeview that I regard as ones I want to watch than Freeview channels that are missing on Freesat that I need.

For instance Freesat now has CNN, Euronews, Bloomberg Tv, France24 and Russia Today news channels that are not on Freeview. And it also has Reality Tv, The Travel Channel, Zone Horror, True Movies, True Movies 2, Movies4Men and Movies 4Men 2, not to mention Court Tv, Information TV, Wine TV, Wedding Tv, The Baby Channel and a host of other offerings that are not shopping channels but are English speaking. If I could speak any languages spoken in the Inidian Subcontient or the Middle East there would be a whole bunch more stuff I could watch on Sky Freesat that is not on Freeview.

At present E4, More4, Sky SportsNews, FTN, UK Bright Ideas, TMF and The Hits are free on Freeview but not free on Freesat. Of those personally there are none I find I need to watch but I accept that for the under 30s marketplace they are important. However within a year E4 and More 4 are likely to be free on Freesat as and when their encryption contract comes up for renewal.

Personally I'm mystified as to why anyone who has a working Sky box and desubscribes then goes out and buys a Freeview box instead?


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## TonyW (Mar 26, 2001)

One bonus of sticking with Sky is the free broadband, if you do find a way to mount the dish.

I know there are other ways of getting cheap broadband then moving to Freeview etc. but they may not apply or be available, so it might just make a difference to the whole equation.


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## cyril (Sep 5, 2001)

Currently, the only thing I would miss from Sky is their High Definition content and 2 tuners in one box.

If you have a south facing balcony you might be able to put a Sky dish on a stand in it. This is useful if you are not allowed to put a dish on an external wall - if your balcony is internal to the exterior of course.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cyril said:


> Currently, the only thing I would miss from Sky is their High Definition content and 2 tuners in one box.
> 
> If you have a south facing balcony you might be able to put a Sky dish on a stand in it. This is useful if you are not allowed to put a dish on an external wall - if your balcony is internal to the exterior of course.


Its good to know you are still out there Cyril. You seem to have been quiet in this place for some time.


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## taoy (Sep 18, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Your alternative options to Sky with Tivo in London seem to be the following:-
> 
> Freeview, Virgin Media (formerly NTL) or HomeChoice.


Ok, it looks like we're going to decide to switch to virgin media. So, what are the chances that I can preserve my season passes? Does anyone know how to go about switching the tivo over to using virgin channel numbers without losing my years of accumulated data files...?

Joe


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Any season passes which are on channels which are also on Virgin Media will simply carry on working; TiVo doesn't use channel numbers to identify channels in its interenal workings. Just re-run Guided Setup.

There may be some channels which while they appear top be the same actually broadacst a slightly different schedule on cable; you'd lose and SPs on thioose.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

As far as the subscription channels go, there are very few that are on Sky that are not on Virgin Media. Certainly all the major ones are; with the exception of Sky One/Two/Three/Sports News/News of course  (I'm sure you've heard about the problems re these channels!)


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## 6022tivo (Oct 29, 2002)

Don't forget, you don't have to use a FREEVIEW, SKY, NTL/TELEWEST type box at all. The tivo will work with no scart input, and just record the terestial channels from your aerial.

I have one setup like this in the office (Freeview box at the tip, unrelaible old OnDig unit).


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## taoy (Sep 18, 2004)

TCM2007 said:


> Any season passes which are on channels which are also on Virgin Media will simply carry on working; TiVo doesn't use channel numbers to identify channels in its interenal workings. Just re-run Guided Setup.


That's good news. There's nothing worse than a totally reinitalised tivo!  I was thinking that perhaps I would have to make a backup of the season passes through tivoweb and try and reinstate them, but this sounds good.


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## taoy (Sep 18, 2004)

6022tivo said:


> Don't forget, you don't have to use a FREEVIEW, SKY, NTL/TELEWEST type box at all. The tivo will work with no scart input, and just record the terestial channels from your aerial.


Alas there is no TV antenna at the new place either...


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## aerialplug (Oct 20, 2000)

6022tivo said:


> Don't forget, you don't have to use a FREEVIEW, SKY, NTL/TELEWEST type box at all. The tivo will work with no scart input, and just record the terestial channels from your aerial.


A good short term solution but with digital switchoff rapildy approaching like a herd of uncoordinated stampeding cows, this won't be a solution for most of us in a year or so's time - and based on past experiences I think TiVos will still be in a good number of our homes for a good while yet unless TiVo make an unexpected return to the UK or someone comes out with a better solution (unlikely and impossible for Sky viewers unless Sky take a retrograde step with Sky+ and give us a good user interface to replace the noddy one currently available)

I can't understand why most TVs being sold at the moment still have analogue only tuners - it's as if the manufacturers are oblivious to the fact that in 5 years time (less for most regions) their equipment will be unfit for the purpose it was sold for. I guess they could argue that the SCART was provided for expansion...


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## katman (Jun 4, 2002)

aerialplug said:


> I can't understand why most TVs being sold at the moment still have analogue only tuners - it's as if the manufacturers are oblivious to the fact that in 5 years time (less for most regions) their equipment will be unfit for the purpose it was sold for. I guess they could argue that the SCART was provided for expansion...


I can think of two possible reasons......

1. so you will buy another new TV in the next 5 years or a set top box.

2. fitting DUAL tuners for analogue and digital would be a lot more expensive and for many of the population a digital only set would not give the reception they currently get.

Just a thought..... Why do they call them "Set TOP Boxes" when the vast majority sit UNDER the TV set ?????????????????????

Only time I have ever seen something on top of the TV was on Neighbours when they had a VCR balance precariously on top of the TV. !


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

aerialplug said:


> I can't understand why most TVs being sold at the moment still have analogue only tuners -


Isn't that because a digital tuner would be good for the UK only - an analogue tuner works worldwide(*) ?

(*) ... at least more than just the UK


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

mikerr said:


> Isn't that because a digital tuner would be good for the UK only - an analogue tuner works worldwide(*) ?
> 
> (*) ... at least more than just the UK


Don't analogue tuners have PAL B/G/I and SECAM K/L and NTSC to also take in to account for a worldwide compatible model. There only seem to be a limited number of DTT standards by comparison so far as I can tell.

Perhaps the biggest problem is digital satellite reception systems though. More expensive and bulky to try and incorporate in to the tv.

Surely the issue with building the digital terrestrial tuner system in to the tv is also that such systems seem to be obsolete and replaced every 2 years or so but assuming that the digital tv source will be external neatly dodges this issue.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Right now if you can't use the Freeview tuner you'd feel you were paying for something you didn't need. 

Personally, I'd go down the STB route anyway as it's more futureproof - MPEG4, HDTV, advanced MHEG - all would require an STB even if you buy an integrated TV.


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

katman said:


> Just a thought..... Why do they call them "Set TOP Boxes" when the vast majority sit UNDER the TV set ?????????????????????


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## kitschcamp (May 18, 2001)

katman said:


> 2. fitting DUAL tuners for analogue and digital would be a lot more expensive and for many of the population a digital only set would not give the reception they currently get.


That argument at one time may have held water, but today when they can sell a freeview set top box retail for less than £20...


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## taoy (Sep 18, 2004)

Pete77 said:


> Some Virgin Media boxes require a cable adapter for the IR channel changing. However these can be obtained at www.tivoland.com or on Ebay.


So, we've got Virgin, and they've given us a Samsung V-box device. I have a suspicion that it has an IRDA style remote, as I can't find a code which works with my TV remote to control it.

Does the TIVO do IRDA codes? Does anyone know what remote code to use to control said box. Otherwise do I need an adapter like Pete77 said? I can't find such a device on tivoland.

Ta,
Joe

p.s. I want my tivo back..


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## mikerr (Jun 2, 2005)

Tivo cable adaptor:
http://www.tivoland.com/buy_accessories.html

Samsung V+ code is "Samsung 20045"

Not sure if you need the adaptor for the samsung, the original SA V+ box definitely doesn't need it.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

taoy said:


> Does the TIVO do IRDA codes? Does anyone know what remote code to use to control said box. Otherwise do I need an adapter like Pete77 said? I can't find such a device on tivoland.


Tivo cable adapters are also being sold on Ebay too by Tivoland and others (mainly Tivo owners getting rid of their units and selling the cable adapater separately).

However I thought the Samsung V Boxes, being newer Virgin boxes, ought to understand standard Infra-Red remotes too, even though it probably also understands the old IR cable box commands.


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## cwaring (Feb 12, 2002)

taoy said:


> So, we've got Virgin, and they've given us a Samsung V-box device. I have a suspicion that it has an IRDA style remote, as I can't find a code which works with my TV remote to control it.


Nope. Only the older Pace 1/2/4000 use IrDA. The newer Sammys use standard IR so the adapter is not needed


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## taoy (Sep 18, 2004)

TCM2007 said:


> Any season passes which are on channels which are also on Virgin Media will simply carry on working; TiVo doesn't use channel numbers to identify channels in its interenal workings. Just re-run Guided Setup.


So, I've just got around to doing this. However when I run the guided setup it fails to connect. Previously it was getting its programme listings from the internet via a tivocache card network adapter. However the guided setup appears fail to connect without putting any packets out on the ethernet.

Is this a known thing? Is it trying to use the modem perhaps? I would have thought that it would use the network. :/

Joe


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

Guided setup works fine with the network card; you mus have some other probelm.


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## taoy (Sep 18, 2004)

cwaring said:


> Nope. Only the older Pace 1/2/4000 use IrDA. The newer Sammys use standard IR so the adapter is not needed


Hurray, I've got my tivo back on-line, and normality has been restored. The channels change fine, and I've disabled the horrible vbox program guide.

Hmm this is weird then. If it is standard IR I wonder why my TV remote wouldn't work with it. I tried all the codes from the manual - it's a Samsumg tv, so I'm surprised of any compatibility issue. Ho hum. Anyway, I can use the tivo remote so, so problem solved.

Joe


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