# Tru2Way w/TIVO Premiere



## timstack8969 (May 14, 2004)

Will or can the "Tru2Way" technology be added to the TIVO Premiere in the future?


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## r11roadster (Oct 24, 2006)

don't see why a dongle couldn't be made similar to the tuning adapter unless I totally misunderstand what tru2way is.


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

My understanding from readings is no.

But, then again, Tru2Way is software based. 

At this point, I don't really think it matters anyway. The FIRST question you should ask is if cable ever actually plans to finish Tru2way.


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## ewilts (Feb 26, 2002)

timstack8969 said:


> Will or can the "Tru2Way" technology be added to the TIVO Premiere in the future?


Can -yes
Will - anybody who knows isn't telling. My guess is not.


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## TexasGrillChef (Sep 15, 2006)

deandashl said:


> My understanding from readings is no.
> 
> But, then again, Tru2Way is software based.
> 
> At this point, I don't really think it matters anyway. The FIRST question you should ask is if cable ever actually plans to finish Tru2way.


Depending on whom you ask, At least with the TiVo CEO. It looks like the FCC is going to fully endorse True2way.

Several cable companies allready have the equipment to support True2Way and are in the testing phases of it currently. TiVo is currently testing True2Way TiVo's in those test markets. I don't know if they are in beta testing, or if it's still alpha testing.

As far as the TiVo priemere supporting True2Way... I could be possible. There is alot about the new hardware that we still don't know about yet. Personal sepculation though is that the premiere though *won't* be True2way compatible at anytime in the future.

However... IT Could be done the same way as a TA is done now, It could have a USB controlled True2Way adapter. Panasonic has a True2Way adapter box in the works that will MOUNT on the backs of their flatscreen TV's. They are currently in Alpha testing those units in those couple of cable markets that have True2way running in a test phase.

Will it come to other cable markets soon.... I would say yes. Will it be this year? NO. Maybe next year we might start to see roll out of True2way devices though.

TWC has a few markets that are gearing up for True2way testing as well.

TGC


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Tru2way requires an onboard DOCSIS modem for upstream comms, and the Premiere doesn't have it.


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## Innerloop (Sep 10, 2000)

If pretty much every Tivo has SOME type of internet connection (usually provided by a DOCSIS modem somewhere else in the house), it seems like that would suffice. As long as the packets can get back to (Comcast/etc.) it could work without a built-in modem.

If some poor bastard out there has a Tivo w/o an Ethernet connection of some sort, then 2-way wouldn't work, but neither world 80&#37; of the other features of the box these days.


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## RoundTuit (Dec 29, 2006)

Innerloop said:


> If pretty much every Tivo has SOME type of internet connection (usually provided by a DOCSIS modem somewhere else in the house), it seems like that would suffice. As long as the packets can get back to (Comcast/etc.) it could work without a built-in modem.
> 
> If some poor bastard out there has a Tivo w/o an Ethernet connection of some sort, then 2-way wouldn't work, but neither world 80% of the other features of the box these days.


+1


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## CharlesH (Aug 29, 2002)

Innerloop said:


> If pretty much every Tivo has SOME type of internet connection (usually provided by a DOCSIS modem somewhere else in the house), it seems like that would suffice. As long as the packets can get back to (Comcast/etc.) it could work without a built-in modem.


That is assuming that the cable company design for Tru2Way permits the upstream link to be over the Internet, rather some low-level Docsis communcation path on the cable. And recall that not everyone uses the cable company for Internet; DSL is not *completely *dead.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

That is exactly the problem - upstream comms to a tru2way headend are not just done via simple IP packets, they are proprietary to each cable system and require an RF return path of some sort (usually a built-in modem).

This is why the FCC proposal for a standard home IP gateway with 2-way capabilities is so important, and why it should be mandated for ALL video providers (sat, U-Verse, etc. included).


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## cranbers (Apr 2, 2010)

slowbiscuit said:


> Tru2way requires an onboard DOCSIS modem for upstream comms, and the Premiere doesn't have it.


Wow I didn't think of that, no wonder the cable boxes are so expensive and junk at the same time. Tivo can't even justify a cheap wifi adapter, think they are going to provide a docsis modem? haha.


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## jrm01 (Oct 17, 2003)

RCN in DC area has begun renting the TiVo Premiere to their customers ($2 per month surcharge) and it provides for their VOD thru a special software change. They say:



> Jason Nealis states "The upstream communication goes through the data port on the TiVo unlike the Motorola which uses the RF for upstream. They are two different types of technology. We mandate the use of RCN [HSI] in order to control the experience and also address security concerns on our side as well."


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## rhobson (Jan 28, 2010)

When I had the Comcast installer poking around my Premiere, he kept going to a menu in the Cable Card area that had listing for an IP Address (reminded me of the DOCSIS IP address listing on the Comcast Motorola box diagnostic menus).

He kept insisting that the installation was not complete until that Cable Card menu was populated, I kept telling him that Tivo's were only one way and your on the wrong diagnostic menu anyways (had a funny time since I had two remotes that kept changing the menu back to see if the Auth listing was correct and he gave me these looks).

I've been thinking, why would Tivo have a IP menu area under the Cable Card menus if it couldn't in some software update (or a different device in the cable card slot) that wouldn't be populated for something like Tru2way?


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

rhobson said:


> I've been thinking, why would Tivo have a IP menu area under the Cable Card menus if it couldn't in some software update (or a different device in the cable card slot) that wouldn't be populated for something like Tru2way?


That menu is provided by the CableCard, not TiVo. All CableCards devices will provide those menus since it is technically possible for it to be installed in a 2-way host device.


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## Topmounter (Apr 11, 2007)

There are a lot of things you "could" do with a software application on the Tivo and the Tivo's IP connection (ala RCN and CASPA), but none of them would be considered Tru2Way.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

rhobson said:


> I've been thinking, why would Tivo have a IP menu area under the Cable Card menus if it couldn't in some software update (or a different device in the cable card slot) that wouldn't be populated for something like Tru2way?


If you're talking about one of the black and grey Cablecard screens, those come from the card itself and are not provided by the Tivo. Remember that Cablecards are also used in the cableCo's DVRs by FCC mandate.

Oops, rainwater beat me to it .


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

cranbers said:


> Wow I didn't think of that, no wonder the cable boxes are so expensive and junk at the same time. Tivo can't even justify a cheap wifi adapter, think they are going to provide a docsis modem? haha.


*sigh* Why would anyone include a DOCIS modem in shipping hardware for some standard that no one even knows will get to see the light of day a _working_ standard.


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

rhobson said:


> I've been thinking, why would Tivo have a IP menu area under the Cable Card menus if it couldn't in some software update (or a different device in the cable card slot) that wouldn't be populated for something like Tru2way?


RCN and their IP method of VOD


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

Topmounter said:


> There are a lot of things you "could" do with a software application on the Tivo and the Tivo's IP connection (ala RCN and CASPA), but none of them would be considered Tru2Way.


Perhaps, but unless the IP is accessible from the outside world, the TiVo has to initiate all conversations. That meas polling of some kind.

I am just guessing here but it seems reasonable that since Verizon FIOS obtains IP's for the STB using MOCA, those boxes can be directly addressed by the FIOS service. If there are 1 million TiVo's that poll one per minute that means the TiVo servers would have to have handle 16667 requests per second. Polling gets expensive.

- Rich


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## rainwater (Sep 21, 2004)

RichB said:


> I am just guessing here but it seems reasonable that since Verizon FIOS obtains IP's for the STB using MOCA, those boxes can be directly addressed by the FIOS service. If there are 1 million TiVo's that poll one per minute that means the TiVo servers would have to have handle 16667 requests per second. Polling gets expensive.


All networked S3 and S4 TiVos maintain an active XMPP connection. There is no polling required since TiVo can use that connection to send messages instantly. This is why things like Amazon VOD start downloads so quickly. AFAIK, TiVo has plans to use this in the future to speed up other things (like remote scheduling).


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## RichB (Apr 2, 2003)

rainwater said:


> All networked S3 and S4 TiVos maintain an active XMPP connection. There is no polling required since TiVo can use that connection to send messages instantly. This is why things like Amazon VOD start downloads so quickly. AFAIK, TiVo has plans to use this in the future to speed up other things (like remote scheduling).


Good information.

Also found this on Wikipedia:


> With HTTP binding, the client uses longer-lived HTTP connections to receive messages as soon as they are sent. This push model of notification is more efficient than polling, where many of the polls return no new data.


- Rich


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## vstone (May 11, 2002)

slowbiscuit said:


> That is exactly the problem - upstream comms to a tru2way headend are not just done via simple IP packets, they are proprietary to each cable system and require an RF return path of some sort (usually a built-in modem).
> 
> This is why the FCC proposal for a standard home IP gateway with 2-way capabilities is so important, and why it should be mandated for ALL video providers (sat, U-Verse, etc. included).


I have complete faith in the cable companies' abilities to stay well ahead of the FCC, which has no effective enforcement arm.


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## LookinAround (May 1, 2010)

I was hopeful way back when i first read the news about the FCC mandate for cable cards but now understand that attempt is going nowhere fast.

FCC admits CableCARD a failure, vows to try something else


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## deandashl (Aug 8, 2008)

I'm sure cable companies will make sure that Tru2way is as successful as cableCARDS have been. Remember the TV's that had them and then TV manufacturers realized, NOPE NOT HAPPENING.

It's nice to see people who read the press releases and actually believe Tru2way will happen on any serious scale. 

Blind, unrealistic optimism of the cable industry; It's cute.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

deandashl said:


> I'm sure cable companies will make sure that Tru2way is as successful as cableCARDS have been. Remember the TV's that had them and then TV manufacturers realized, NOPE NOT HAPPENING.
> 
> It's nice to see people who read the press releases and actually believe Tru2way will happen on any serious scale.
> 
> Blind, unrealistic optimism of the cable industry; It's cute.


Tru2way is being tested in two markets, Chicago I know is one place, but i have heard nothing more about this testing.


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