# TIVO & Charter/Spectrum



## Gordon Potter (Apr 3, 2018)

I had TIVO back in the early 2000s as part of DirecTV. It was great. Now I am looking to get it again. I have a long list of questions to work through, but the big deal questions are:

#1. I will need to watch on TV sets in two rooms. I see the recommendations are to use a MOCA system (I do not have Ethernet wiring available.). I have an Orbi mesh LAN system which easily delivers over 235 Mbps to each of my satellite Wi-Fi locations. What kind of band widths are required to send HD and 4K signals from the Bolt Box to the TIVO Mini?

#2. Can I watch (or record) broadcast #1 on the Bolt Box and another broadcast (or recorded program) on the Mini at the same time?

#3. The only threads I found on using TIVO with cable service from Charter (recently acquired by Spectrum) are over 10 years old. I would very much like to know the experience of a current Charter customer. (I am in Gainesville, GA if that makes any difference.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

I can't help you on #1. TiVo specifies either (wired) ethernet or MOCA connections for the mini but there is at least one user here who makes WiFi work. I assume he/she will chime in to give you a response.

On #2: Yes

On #3, if I search on "charter" I get a multitude of recent results. Do not limit your search to just one forum or to just titles.


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## JoeKustra (Dec 7, 2012)

Gordon Potter said:


> #1. I will need to watch on TV sets in two rooms. I see the recommendations are to use a MOCA system (I do not have Ethernet wiring available.). I have an Orbi mesh LAN system which easily delivers over 235 Mbps to each of my satellite Wi-Fi locations. What kind of band widths are required to send HD and 4K signals from the Bolt Box to the TIVO Mini?


This post -> the miserable tivo mini indicates that the Orbi works with the device connected with Ethernet. That's a general rule which means wireless works as long as the devices think they are wired.

There is no 4k content that would require a Mini to use the Bolt as a host. Streaming content is between the Mini and the internet via your router/network. If your network is solid, you should be fine. You will know when you try it. Only MoCA and Ethernet are 100% reliable.

This article has some good information on 4K -> 2018 Best TV Service for 4K - Beware, Some Providers Don't Support 4K


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Gordon Potter said:


> I had TIVO back in the early 2000s as part of DirecTV. It was great. Now I am looking to get it again. I have a long list of questions to work through, but the big deal questions are:
> 
> #1. I will need to watch on TV sets in two rooms. I see the recommendations are to use a MOCA system (I do not have Ethernet wiring available.). I have an Orbi mesh LAN system which easily delivers over 235 Mbps to each of my satellite Wi-Fi locations. What kind of band widths are required to send HD and 4K signals from the Bolt Box to the TIVO Mini?
> 
> ...


#1 This should not be a problem providing you can use the Orbi's Ethernet port to fool the Tivos into thinking they are connected via Ethernet only. Mini use approximately 20Mbps+ when watching live TV or a recorded show. The only 4k content will come from one of the streaming services and they all use some type of compression which will be way less than what is required for live TV at least at this time. 
#2 The standard Bolt(4tuners) is OTA or Cable, the Bolt+ (6tuners) is Cable only. The standard Bolt DVR's reserve one tuner for themselves which leaves 3 for either recording or use with minis on live TV, to watch a recording from a mini does not use a tuner, nor does watching a streaming service. Recordings can be scheduled via the minis.
#3 If you are in a former Brighthouse area of GA, you will likely find that you will need a TA, tuning adapter, which is necessary for SDV channels. If you are lucky you will be able to get a cablecard and TA up and working pretty quickly....that is not the common experience though, so be prepared to exercise your patience muscles. 
If and when you start your setup, come back and ask for specific help or clarification you may need.


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## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

I have Charter in Athens, GA. There have been some hiccups over the years, but things work fairly smoothly right now. You will need a tuning adapter. You won't get On Demand. You may have to edit your channel list manually to match your package (I haven't done a guided setup in a long time, but occasionally run into OnePasses that have been recording a lot of black screens because the lineup's changed and they think I get a new channel that I don't.) If you're a drinker, I'd advise laying in a bottle or two of something you enjoy to get you through the process if finding a tech who ever seen a TiVo or CableCARD device.


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## Gordon Potter (Apr 3, 2018)

duncan7 said:


> I have Charter in Athens, GA. There have been some hiccups over the years, but things work fairly smoothly right now. You will need a tuning adapter. You won't get On Demand. You may have to edit your channel list manually to match your package (I haven't done a guided setup in a long time, but occasionally run into OnePasses that have been recording a lot of black screens because the lineup's changed and they think I get a new channel that I don't.) If you're a drinker, I'd advise laying in a bottle or two of something you enjoy to get you through the process if finding a tech who ever seen a TiVo or CableCARD device.


Duncan you mentioned a "tuning adaptor" -- looking a some Tivo information, I see that is used from something called "Switch Digital Video" channels. The install video's first step is select your Tivo equipment and the Bolt is not an option. So I am wondering if the tuning adaptor is needed with the current equipment. Any ideas?


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Gordon Potter said:


> So I am wondering if the tuning adaptor is needed with the current equipment.


The TiVo model doesn't make a difference.


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## Gordon Potter (Apr 3, 2018)

krkaufman said:


> The TiVo model doesn't make a difference.


Duncan said I needed a 'tuning adaptor' I see from the Tivo install directions, I need something called a "bridge". Also I notice the Tivo branded bridge is the same a model ECB 6200 Actiontec Adapter.

Is it possible the 'tuning adaptor' and 'bridge' are the same thing?


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## reds91185 (Jun 7, 2017)

Gordon Potter said:


> Duncan said I needed a 'tuning adaptor' I see from the Tivo install directions, I need something called a "bridge". Also I notice the Tivo branded bridge is the same a model ECB 6200 Actiontec Adapter.
> 
> Is it possible the 'tuning adaptor' and 'bridge' are the same thing?


The tuner adapter has nothing to do with MoCA. Some areas use SDV to only send a channel to the user when that channel is requested instead of filling the pipeline with all channels all the time. The Tuner adapter is needed to send that request since a CableCard can't do it by itself.

If you are using a Bolt you will not need separate MoCA adapters as the Bolt has it all built in.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

I'm on Charter Spectrum. Mostly it works fine.

In my area (like most Charter areas) I have to use a Tuning Adapter to get most of my channels. This is because instead of sending out all channels to everyone at once, my local Spectrum headend only sends out a subset of available channels at a time. To get the other channels (the so-called Switched Digital Video channels) a cable box has to request them from the SDV server at the headend. For both legal and technical reasons the TiVo can't make those requests itself, so a Tuning Adapter is needed to make those requests on behalf of the TiVo.

Unfortunately my area uses Cisco CableCards so I have to use a Cisco tuning adapter. The Cisco STA1520 tuning adapter is a piece of garbage that has to be rebooted once a month or so.  If you're lucky enough to live in an area that uses Motorola equipment then you shouldn't have much trouble as their tuning adapters are much more reliable than the Cisco ones.


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## wtherrell (Dec 23, 2004)

reds91185 said:


> The tuner adapter has nothing to do with MoCA. Some areas use SDV to only send a channel to the user when that channel is requested instead of filling the pipeline with all channels all the time. The Tuner adapter is needed to send that request since a CableCard can't do it by itself.
> 
> If you are using a Bolt you will not need separate MoCA adapters as the Bolt has it all built in.


Tuning adapter will kill Moca if you have it wired as pass through. You'll need a splitter so that Tivo and tuning adapter are in parallel.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Gordon Potter said:


> Duncan said I needed a 'tuning adaptor' I see from the Tivo install directions, I need something called a "bridge". Also I notice the Tivo branded bridge is the same a model ECB 6200 Actiontec Adapter. ... Is it possible the 'tuning adaptor' and 'bridge' are the same thing?


A Tuning Adapter is an entirely different device than a MoCA adapter (of which the TiVo Bridge is a specific model; and the TiVo Bridge is a rebranded Actiontec ECB6000, standard MoCA 2.0, not the ECB6200, a bonded/extended MoCA 2.0 adapter).

Whether you'd need a TiVo Bridge (MoCA adapter) would be dependent on how your TiVo boxes are to be networked.


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## XIBM (Mar 9, 2013)

I live in Hall County on Spectrum with a Bolt+, a Premier XL4 and two minis. I disconnected my Terminal Adapter when Charter went digital a couple of years ago and get all the Silver Package channels with one exception which is likely a cable card authorization issue without the TA. I run the minis on MoCA using the Bolt as the internet bridge as I do not have Ethernet wired but did have coax to the minis. I have my computer and the Bolt on a UPS and everything has been smooth for the last couple of years. I kept the XL4 when I got the Bolt for backup and transition but it is excess and has lifetime service if you are interested send me a private message.


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## Jayhawker88 (Nov 10, 2009)

As far as Charter/Spectrum and Tuning Adapters, I live in st. Louis and was told I needed one. Seemed to work fine. When we moved and I had the tech out to set up cable at my new house, he asked me why I had the TA, and told me I could connect directly. Sure enough, worked perfectly. 

Also, I was told that the new bolts require the newer cable cards at Spectrum. The tech gave me the model number of the card to ask for, but I have since forgotten. I'm still rolling with my Roamio.


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## series5orpremier (Jul 6, 2013)

With Charter you typically do lose a few channels without a TA but they aren’t usually channels most people would notice losing or miss.

The line about new Bolts requiring new model cablecards is typical cable company BS. I called the Charter tech support line 6 months ago and transferred a very old Motorola M Card from a Roamio into a new Bolt myself no problems... up and running in a minute.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

series5orpremier said:


> With Charter you typically do lose a few channels without a TA but they aren't usually channels most people would notice losing or miss.


That varies widely depending on where you are. In some places they don't put many channels at all on SDV. But my local Charter Spectrum office puts at least half their lineup onto SDV.

A few of the really popular basic cable channels have their SD feeds available without the tuning adapter (CNN, TBS, etc.) but it's a short list.

On other cable channels the SD feed is often on SDV even if the HD feed isn't. For example we can get BBCAMHD-E without a tuning adapter but BBCAM-W is an SDV channel. I think Syfy works the same way: SYFY-W is on SDV but SYFYHD-E isn't. (And yes, it's weird that they tend to give us the east coast feed in HD and the west coast feed in SD for a lot of cable channels, but it's also kind of handy because if the recording is messed up on the HD feed I can record the SD version 3 hours later.)

All the SD feeds of HBO, Showtime, etc. are on SDV. Also all the secondary premium channels (HBO2, HBOF, HBOC, HBOZ, SHO2, SHOSC, SHOWOMEN, SHONEXT, AMX, TMAX, 5MAX, etc.). And the east-coast feeds of the main HBO/SHO channels. (Of the premium channels basically only SHOHD-W and HBOHD-W work without a tuning adapter.)


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

tim1724 said:


> That varies widely depending on where you are. In some places they don't put many channels at all on SDV. But my local Charter Spectrum office puts at least half their lineup onto SDV.
> 
> A few of the really popular basic cable channels have their SD feeds available without the tuning adapter (CNN, TBS, etc.) but it's a short list.
> 
> ...


OT, I too wonder why Spectrum has so many of its channels set to the east feed. Not an issue until TiVo decides it's messed up and decides to change the feeds messing up the guide.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

In my area most of the SDV channels are the premium movie channels.


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## lisabranam (Apr 5, 2018)

Well, you may think of Charter or Spectrum with other options. I do not have any business link to the company, but I say that I have been using their services for several years. I found it to be working perfectly fine for me. Make sure to check the coverage in your area, but I think it is mostly accessible to many states in the US.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

As most of us know, we have no choice for cable.(except in rare instances). You will never have a choice between Cox and Comcast. Or Spectrum and Cox. Cable companies have footprints that do not overlap. (again, rare instances. A provider with a different means of supplying video will be available. Satellite, various other methods. IPTV- Uverse was first along with Fios. In the past a company did one or the other. With all these mergers some companies that were IPTV only now own cable systems. It is harder to say X company only provides cable service.


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## brewman (Jun 29, 2003)

I'm in Suwanee, GA, and have had TiVo with Charter/Spectrum a long time. The only issue I run into is periodically having to reboot the tuning adapter. It seems like when Charter changes the frequency mapping the tuning adapter doesn't always get the update without reboot. When this happens you'll get a channel not found error message.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

brewman said:


> I'm in Suwanee, GA, and have had TiVo with Charter/Spectrum a long time. The only issue I run into is periodically having to reboot the tuning adapter. It seems like when Charter changes the frequency mapping the tuning adapter doesn't always get the update without reboot. When this happens you'll get a channel not found error message.


A lot of folks use one of those weekly timers and just set it to go off and on some time when no one will be using tv, like 3-4AM or whatever.


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## duncan7 (Sep 17, 2004)

fcfc2 said:


> A lot of folks use one of those weekly timers and just set it to go off and on some time when no one will be using tv, like 3-4AM or whatever.


Do they always wake up to the "Tuning Adapter Connected" message, then?


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## samsauce29 (Nov 30, 2007)

fcfc2 said:


> A lot of folks use one of those weekly timers and just set it to go off and on some time when no one will be using tv, like 3-4AM or whatever.


I used to just reboot manually every Sunday morning. Since I replaced some cables and splitters, I just wait for the inevitable failure and reboot then... Seems about a monthly occurrence now.

Such a frustrating suboptimal solution from Spectrum... I can't wait for the day when I can repurpose the Bolts as OTA only and use a streaming service. (Currently lacking the Pirates live games as far as I can tell...)


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

If you're lucky enough to have a Moto TA instead of Cisco, you never have to reboot.


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## UCLABB (May 29, 2012)

duncan7 said:


> Do they always wake up to the "Tuning Adapter Connected" message, then?


No. I guess the message goes away after a bit. The timer has worked perfectly for me for about a year.


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

duncan7 said:


> Do they always wake up to the "Tuning Adapter Connected" message, then?





UCLABB said:


> No. I guess the message goes away after a bit. The timer has worked perfectly for me for about a year.


I can confirm this; I have several Tuning Adapters, all on timers. The only time I see that message is if we happen to be watching TV during the power-cycle. I have also watched it happen in real time, the reset screen takes about five or ten minutes to expire.



mdavej said:


> If you're lucky enough to have a Moto TA instead of Cisco, you never have to reboot.


Sorry, no. I have Motorola Tuning Adapters and they stop working every few days. In fact one of them crapped out about an hour ago as I write this and required yet another power-cycle to watch my premium stations.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

I haven’t had to reboot my Moto for at least 8 years. Something is wrong with yours.


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

I have a Motorola TA. I have had to reboot it twice in over a year of of having Tivo now.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

tim_m said:


> I have a Motorola TA. I have had to reboot it twice in over a year of of having Tivo now.





mdavej said:


> I haven't had to reboot my Moto for at least 8 years. Something is wrong with yours.


Depends on your local cable system. It can send signals that force your TA to reboot.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I've had Motorolas for years with no need to reboot. The only time I had issues was after a power loss and they can take hours to reboot sometimes. Every time power is lost i worry if "this is one of those times"


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

mdavej said:


> I haven't had to reboot my Moto for at least 8 years. Something is wrong with yours.


It's not the Tuning Adapters themselves, I'm sure it's an artifact of the cable system. I have had multiple tuning adapters for several years. In the first few years they never failed, but these days they all fail from time to time. If it were a problem with the device itself they would not all be failing, and failures would follow the TA.

When I have called Time Warner Cable (now Spectrum) about TA problems they would invariably assume the TA bad and wouldn't do anything until they were swapped out; they were always wrong, it was never a bad box, just a bad signal or backlevel firmware. I don't have the resources to diagnose their cable system problems.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

ej42137 said:


> I don't have the resources to diagnose their cable system problems.


I hear you. That's just one of many reasons I cut the cord. While my technical issues were few, Charter raising the "broadcast tv fee" for channels I get OTA for free was the last straw. No regrets. Besides saving a ton of money and getting Charter out of my hair, I waste less time watching TV.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

mdavej said:


> I haven't had to reboot my Moto for at least 8 years. Something is wrong with yours.





mdavej said:


> I hear you. That's just one of many reasons I cut the cord. While my technical issues were few, Charter raising the "broadcast tv fee" for channels I get OTA for free was the last straw. No regrets. Besides saving a ton of money and getting Charter out of my hair, I waste less time watching TV.


Yep, cutting the cord is one way to avoid TA problems, for both types of TA! I use the same tactic to avoid having any problems with the Ferrari super car I don't own.


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

dlfl said:


> Yep, cutting the cord is one way to avoid TA problems, for both types of TA! I use the same tactic to avoid having any problems with the Ferrari super car I don't own.


And when your internet goes down at a weird am time (providers love to mess with things at that hour)..and all your shows and recordings are living in the cloud don't be surprised if you find yourself saying..Bring your damn cable cards and Tuning Adaptors..i want physical storage AND I WANT IT NOW .


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

tenthplanet said:


> And when your internet goes down at a weird am time (providers love to mess with things at that hour)..and all your shows and recordings are living in the cloud don't be surprised if you find yourself saying..Bring your damn cable cards and Tuning Adaptors..i want physical storage AND I WANT IT NOW .


Nothing will ever make me pine for a TA! *Nothing*! BTW I still use one (reluctantly) and don't store anything in the cloud. TA problems have been by far the dominant PITA of TiVo usage for me since I first went digital in 2009, most of which I blame on TWC (now Spectrum), although poor design of the Cisco TA may deserve some blame (since Motorola TA's seem to be much less troublesome).

Occasionally losing internet at a "weird am time" doesn't strike me as a major catastrophe, even if I did use the cloud. My home phone has been VOIP (Ooma) for two years now with 100% reliability -- arguably better reliability than my electric power (which also is very reliable). Reliability of internet and electric power do vary with location but my experience has been that both are very reliable.


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## mattyro7878 (Nov 27, 2014)

I think although its been around forever, the electrical system was built at a time when workmanship was at a premium, Parts and equipment were more robust (maybe not technologically) and they were supplying the wonder of electricity to people!!! A lot who believed it was a "passing fancy".


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## tenthplanet (Mar 5, 2004)

mattyro7878 said:


> I think although its been around forever, the electrical system was built at a time when workmanship was at a premium, Parts and equipment were more robust (maybe not technologically) and they were supplying the wonder of electricity to people!!! A lot who believed it was a "passing fancy".


True. If you have ever had a chance to look at the workings of an electrical sub-station the build quality is amazing.


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

Yep.. when my Tivo dies, it's PS Vue for me.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

ej42137 said:


> It's not the Tuning Adapters themselves, I'm sure it's an artifact of the cable system. I have had multiple tuning adapters for several years. In the first few years they never failed, but these days they all fail from time to time. If it were a problem with the device itself they would not all be failing, and failures would follow the TA.
> 
> When I have called Time Warner Cable (now Spectrum) about TA problems they would invariably assume the TA bad and wouldn't do anything until they were swapped out; they were always wrong, it was never a bad box, just a bad signal or backlevel firmware. I don't have the resources to diagnose their cable system problems.


I recently got a good rep on the national cc line.. he looked at signal levels & rolled a truck specifically to fix bad signal & bit error rate.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


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## ej42137 (Feb 16, 2014)

CybrFyre said:


> I recently got a good rep on the national cc line.. he looked at signal levels & rolled a truck specifically to fix bad signal & bit error rate.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk


I do have TiVos in the back of my house that have lower signal levels. At one point the situation got really bad and the TWC guy crawled under the house and found a splitter that looked like it had been eaten by aluminum termites!

But the Tuning Adapters there didn't and don't fail any more frequently than the ones in the front of the house where there's a very good signal. I don't think my issue has anything to do with signal levels, I think it's a software or hardware problem at the headend. Since I put the Tuning Adapters on fish timers I haven't had any problems with recordings due to failing Tuning Adapters. At this point for me the problem is just a minor irritation.


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## lisabranam (Apr 5, 2018)

Are you residing in a former bright house area of GA? You will need a TV tuning adapter for sure, living there; soon you will realize the need for such adapter for SDV channels. SDV channels include content of all genres. Home internet providers can help you find the alternative to TIVO gadgets. You may well be able to get a TA and cable card with the subscription, however you might not be that lucky to find adds-on with a single service subscription.


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