# Sons of Anarchy FINALE



## GoPackGo (Dec 29, 2012)

Ugh. That was a terrible finale.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Not sure I'd go as far as calling it terrible. It wasn't great, but not terrible imo.

Terrible was the Lost finale imo.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

I'd prefer a "Thelma & Louise" demise. Instead, the poor truck driver has to live with being responsible. A little selfish, IMO.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Wow I really liked it. I was upset when the club let him go, but I like how he chose to go out.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

bryhamm said:


> Not sure I'd go as far as calling it terrible. It wasn't great, but not terrible imo.
> 
> Terrible was the Lost finale imo.





Shaunnick said:


> Wow I really liked it. I was upset when the club let him go, but I like how he chose to go out.





Spoiler



Sup re....re...re....er, um morons?


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

So I had it nailed that the "unwritten bylaw" thing was about patching over the Grim Bastards.

Was close but not exact in that the Mayhem vote would not end up with them killing him. But I knew it wouldn't be a "yeah, vote mayhem on me and then shoot me" kind of deal.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

Beryl said:


> I'd prefer a "Thelma & Louise" demise. Instead, the poor truck driver has to live with being responsible. A little selfish, IMO.


I think the idea was that he didn't want to put it on his friends to kill him - truck driver will be fine imo


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

bryhamm said:


> Not sure I'd go as far as calling it terrible. It wasn't great, but not terrible imo.
> 
> Terrible was the Lost finale imo.


and Dexter.

This was ok. Not great, but wrapped things up pretty well.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Better than Dexter or Sopranos, but that's not saying much.

I wanted the bad guys to get it, so they left too many of Samcro out and alive for my taste. While it looked like Jax was going to not live I didn't like the idea of him having the luxury of doing everything he wanted before it happened.

I really could have done with out all the Jesus references. How the hell did Jax become a Jesus figure all of a sudden?

The OJ style chase was silly. A dozen plus cars on a slow speed chase after one motorcycle on a single road for a long time. No one calls ahead to have someone come from the other direction? The only smart cop was the one Jax shot at. He got in the car rather than jumping in front of bullets in order to send out his own.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

danielhart said:


> I think the idea was that he didn't want to put it on his friends to kill him - truck driver will be fine imo


watched it again - ool that was Micheal Chiklis coming back from up north with his load after he dropped off Gemma....


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## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

The second to last episode was better than the finale. I'm glad Jax killed himself, and in a way, as much as I enjoyed it, I'm glad this show is finally over. I was entertained by it but let's face it, just about every character on this show was a despicable scumbag who deserved every horrible thing that happened to them.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Idearat said:


> I really could have done with out all the Jesus references. How the hell did Jax become a Jesus figure all of a sudden?


It was way too heavy handed and poorly done. I little subtlety would have gone a long way.


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

I found it interesting that it was the same truck driver played by Michael Chiklis that gave Gemma the ride!


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## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

Idearat said:


> Better than Dexter or Sopranos, but that's not saying much.
> 
> I wanted the bad guys to get it, so they left too many of Samcro out and alive for my taste. While it looked like Jax was going to not live I didn't like the idea of him having the luxury of doing everything he wanted before it happened.
> 
> ...


During the chase I said "silly" out loud. What was the point? If he was going to take himself out just find a truck or a cliff. Wanted an audience, I guess. The "drama" did nothing for me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

It certainly wasn't a terrible finale but it just basically tied up loose ends. Other than Jax's death, the juicy stuff happened last episode.

I must be totally irreligious because I saw no Jax as Jesus references.

The never ending OJ chase was kind of silly. I expected Jax to kill himself at JT's memorial or drive off a cliff. He got to go out on his own terms but it was kind of a dickish move to involve the trucker. 

I guess each charter handles its own business but I'd have thought Jax's mayhem would involve at least one of the other charter's presidents to ensure there's be no bs "He got away" stuff.

Montez got to say one syllable.

TO was the only Grim Bastard to get patched over?

Wendy's life has totally changed without her input or consent.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I didn't think it was terrible either. I liked the slow speed chase at the end. This show with all it's death, never took itself seriously. I mean shooting 2 people in front of a court house, and then just walking away? 
The scene shooting Happy in the arm was confusing. Was it planned along? to show some evidence of the "gun fight" that let Jax get away? Nobody seem surprised by it afterwards, most of all Jax. Then why stage it like they did?


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## Big Deficit (Jul 8, 2003)

Terrible? Maybe a bit too much. Heavy handed and predictable? More appropriate. For me, it makes the Breaking Bad ending look that much better. Personally, I would have liked them to spend more time fleshing out Jax's correcting his wrongs with more detail in the how and why. Instead, he just killed everyone in two episodes and ....that's pretty much it. Oh, and don't forget that important paperwork let in the top open drawer of the filing cabinet! I'd put this on par or a little below the Shield ending, which isn't surprising considering the two shows connection.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Beryl said:


> I'd prefer a "Thelma & Louise" demise. Instead, the poor truck driver has to live with being responsible. A little selfish, IMO.


I was hoping for a cliff too.

But I liked it. Good song, good camera work, it felt true to Jax.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

I thought John Teller went out running into a semi - not sure if it was due to bike sabotage, or intentional. I think Jax was going to do just what he did to go out like his old man. The cop showing up at the John Teller site was just a coincidence that hastened Jax's plan was the way I saw it. Then he just kept driving until a truck showed up.

If the arms-out pose was one of the "Jesus" things that people are talking about, I didn't see it that way; I just saw it as a sign of finally finding freedom - spreading his wings.

While it was far from perfect, I enjoyed the finale. It was getting too late for me to watch Anarchy AfterWord, so I'll catch that tonight. I hope they will flesh out a few things. Like was the homeless girl actually real, or some kind of angel or something?







And now just re-reading what I wrote, the thought went through my head - did John Teller get shot? I can't remember anymore now.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Jim_TV said:


> The second to last episode was better than the finale. I'm glad Jax killed himself, and in a way, as much as I enjoyed it, I'm glad this show is finally over. I was entertained.


Yeah, it needed to be over. And this Afterword crap where the actors are praising one another and saying this show changed lives and was the best thing ever... Sheesh, get over yourselves.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I wonder if the actors playing Marks, the Irish King, Barofsky and the other assorted murderees got a full day's pay for their 30 seconds of work.

What was the name of the porno movie Lyla was shooting?


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

This was a bit anticlimatic after last weekks great episode. Given the other available options on what happens to Jax I'm fine with how it went down.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> I was hoping for a cliff too.
> 
> But I liked it. Good song, good camera work, it felt true to Jax.


That's what I was thinking was going to happen. But then we'd get a bunch of posts on how Sutter ripped off Thelma...

Can't please everyone


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## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

Overall I thought it wasn't bad. But I still don't understand the mayhem scene. That made no sense at all. 

I also would have liked to see a scene where Nero actually explained it all to Wendy. I thought both actors were underused in the finale.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Poor Juice didn't even make it into the "on last week's show" LOL

Yeah I agree this was just neatly tying up all the loose ends.



Jim_TV said:


> The second to last episode was better than the finale.


I would have been fine if they ended the series with last week's final scene.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

danielhart said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Sup re....re...re....er, um morons?


I see what you did there. 



Spoiler



When are you coming home?


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

cheesesteak said:


> I must be totally irreligious because I saw no Jax as Jesus references.


Here's what I picked up.

Able playing w/ the SON ring
The homeless woman leaving behind the "Bread and Wine"
Jax Prostrating himself W/ arms outstretched
Again the bread and blood on the side of the road after Jax's suicide

Overall theme of Jax sacrificing himself


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Barmat said:


> Here's what I picked up.
> 
> Able playing w/ the SON ring
> The homeless woman leaving behind the "Bread and Wine"
> ...


The wine and the bread was a call back to the pilot episode and a shot of two crows eating bread.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

We didn't actually see Jax die...



The Mayhem thing was pretty lame, unless someone can explain what I'm missing. "Ok, we're going to let Jax go, but not before staging a homicide and shooting Happy. Then we'll have hugs, followed by cigarettes and coffee."


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Barmat said:


> The homeless woman leaving behind the "Bread and Wine"


The shot dwelt on the bread and wine _so long_. I liked the homeless woman giving him the blanket and saying "It's time", though.



Shaunnick said:


> The wine and the bread was a call back to the pilot episode and a shot of two crows eating bread.


Also, "I got this." was a call back to Opie's last words.

Some good music this ep. I liked the Springsteen in the opening.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> The Mayhem thing was pretty lame, unless someone can explain what I'm missing. "Ok, we're going to let Jax go, but not before staging a homicide and shooting Happy. Then we'll have hugs, followed by cigarettes and coffee."


The SONS as a whole had to vote for the Mayhem to happen, the other charters knew this.

They had to put on a show that he shot his way out and took off vs they let him go, which would be going against the whole Mayhem vote thing.


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

tlc said:


> The shot dwelt on the bread and wine _so long_. I liked the homeless woman giving him the blanket and saying "It's time", though.
> 
> Also, "I got this." was a call back to Opie's last words.
> 
> Some good music this ep. I liked the Springsteen in the opening.


A friend just reminded me the blanket she Homeless Lady gave Jax was the same blanket Jax gave her from season one after he spent the night in the cemetery.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Barmat said:


> Jax Prostrating himself W/ arms outstretched


Do you mean right before he committed suicide by truck? To me, it was a call out to the cgi crows soaring above a little bit before.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> We didn't actually see Jax die...
> 
> The Mayhem thing was pretty lame, unless someone can explain what I'm missing. "Ok, we're going to let Jax go, but not before staging a homicide and shooting Happy. Then we'll have hugs, followed by cigarettes and coffee."


You didn't miss anything. They Mayhem thing was very lame. No reason for it.


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## Linnemir (Apr 7, 2009)

Barmat said:


> Here's what I picked up.
> 
> Able playing w/ the SON ring
> The homeless woman leaving behind the "Bread and Wine"
> ...


I'm not being nasty here, but I don't follow your logic on Able playing with the ring? What brought you to that idea?

I kind of saw the homeless woman as the Angel of Death, but can also buy the bread and wine notion.

My first thought on Jax with the arms outstretched was "crucifixion" but second thought was a reminder of the two boys on bikes, riding free ... "Look, ma, no hands" also came to mind, but the main thought I had was he was finally free.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I thought it was a donut.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

uncdrew said:


> I thought it was a donut.


I thought it was a muffin.

Here's the Sons Of Anarchy Kill Chart courtesy of Grantland.com. It's missing the murders from the finale, though.

http://grantland.com/hollywood-pros...-charting-seven-seasons-of-biker-gang-mayhem/


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Liked this thread on reddit:


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I kind of zoned out a bit during that. He certainly asked Nero to do a ton of paperwork for him.

Did he want him to raise his boys? Or is that just people being funny (which I did find funny).


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

...and they sell the Auto Repair Shop and Wendy gets money.

Where does the club hang out now? On the roof of some crappy warehouse in Stockton? In the candy store? At Diosa? At Tig's house?

I guess we'll find out next season.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

Shaunnick said:


> I see what you did there.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's your club now, my stinky spawn.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> I kind of zoned out a bit during that. He certainly asked Nero to do a ton of paperwork for him.
> 
> Did he want him to raise his boys? Or is that just people being funny (which I did find funny).


He said Wendy can go wherever she wants with them, except Charming.


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## tlc (May 30, 2002)

So, did last week's limp mean anything? Does it tie into the Christianity stuff?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> ...and they sell the Auto Repair Shop and Wendy gets money.
> 
> Where does the club hang out now? On the roof of some crappy warehouse in Stockton? In the candy store? At Diosa? At Tig's house?
> 
> I guess we'll find out next season.


Scoops, he said that a grenade through the window really drives property value down


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

uncdrew said:


> ...and they sell the Auto Repair Shop and Wendy gets money.
> 
> Where does the club hang out now? On the roof of some crappy warehouse in Stockton? In the candy store? At Diosa? At Tig's house?
> 
> I guess we'll find out next season.


The candy store. Jax told Nero he was giving his piece od Diosa and the Red Woody to the club and that they should buy the candy store from Hale cheap since grenades lower property values.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> You didn't miss anything. They Mayhem thing was very lame. No reason for it.


Yeah if the whole thing was simply a charade to appease the other charters why bother going through the drama and emotion of the vote?


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Scoops, he said that a grenade through the window really drives property value down


Or what Mike said....


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> ...and they sell the Auto Repair Shop and Wendy gets money.
> 
> Where does the club hang out now? On the roof of some crappy warehouse in Stockton? In the candy store? At Diosa? At Tig's house?
> 
> I guess we'll find out next season.


I would have no issue hanging out at the porn studio or Diosa. Scoops wasn't so bad either.


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## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

tlc said:


> So, did last week's limp mean anything? Does it tie into the Christianity stuff?


Could be that Charlie's foot fell asleep IRL when shooting the scene and Sutter simply decided to use it for sh*ts and giggles


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

danielhart said:


> It's your club now, my stinky spawn.


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## zeppo2 (Mar 26, 2005)

In the Oedipus myth, the name literally means lame or swollen foot, and the whole killing your mother then sleeping with your ex thing seemed like it might have been some kind of allusion to that (which also fits in with the Hamlet-like plot of the stepfather killing the father). Perhaps. Lame finale, though.



danielhart said:


> Could be that Charlie's foot fell asleep IRL when shooting the scene and Sutter simply decided to use it for sh*ts and giggles


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Things that confused me/didn't hear/didn't get:

1. The "unwritten bylaw" thing from last week - I don't think it had to do with patching in TO. They even said the other charters might give them grief over it. I thought maybe it had to do with Mayhem - I was surprised that Mayhem was performed by the Original Redwoods alone, without any witnesses from the other charters. I thought maybe THAT was the "unwritten bylaw" - that Jax would be allowed to let his own charter kill him? Anyone else read it this way?

2. WTH did Tig and Chibs say to Jax when they hugged goodbye. Couldn't understand a word. Help?


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Tig said "I have no words.. no words"

Chibs.. half the time I don't know what he is saying.


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## zeppo2 (Mar 26, 2005)

I too couldn't make out a word on that goodbye hug. It reminded me of the last scene of Lost in Translation, though Chibs is no Scarlett Johannsen 


nyny523 said:


> Things that confused me/didn't hear/didn't get:
> 
> 1. The "unwritten bylaw" thing from last week - I don't think it had to do with patching in TO. They even said the other charters might give them grief over it. I thought maybe it had to do with Mayhem - I was surprised that Mayhem was performed by the Original Redwoods alone, without any witnesses from the other charters. I thought maybe THAT was the "unwritten bylaw" - that Jax would be allowed to let his own charter kill him? Anyone else read it this way?
> 
> 2. WTH did Tig and Chibs say to Jax when they hugged goodbye. Couldn't understand a word. Help?


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## BlearyEyed (Jun 11, 2002)

Personally, I thought that the unwritten by-law was definitely about patching TO in. I know he said that he understood the heat the choice could bring on the club, but I just assumed that was because he wasn't privy to the finer details of the agreement Jax made with the other charters about bringing him in. Also just because a few presidents said it was okay, doesn't mean there won't be heat from someone (however major or minor) over being the first black member of the Sons. 

As for the JT/Jax comparison, I took something Jax said at the stone as an indication/confirmation that JT really did kill himself. Jax said something along the lines of "I know you now" or "I understand." Which I took to mean that Jax had gotten himself to the same frame of mind his father had. Since Jury was proven not to have been the rat, I took his comments before he died as genuine, that he really did believe JT committed suicide. But for that I'd have to go back, because I thought it was black and white that Gemma/Clay had hands in that. But maybe JT found his bike was tampered with, knew it was done by his wife and best friend, and came to the same unsolvable club versus family conundrum Jax couldn't resolve?


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## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

Overall I found the finale fell well short of expectations. But I can see how easily it could've been a lot worse, and some of the things I thought were very rough/didn't work too well at least were still something I could see what their intent likely was in doing it. It just didn't work or seemed forced/lame.

Frankly I'd rather have seen Jax turn himself in and admit to the killings he was involved in and accept the punishment for them that he received. The whole suicide thing just smacks of avoiding the problems he's caused others by running away, and leaving his kids stuck never understanding anything about him, and never able to resolve any issues because of it. Own up to it. That'd have been far more like he ultimately learned something about his dad's own hopes and desires, and would've represented some sort of turning point in his family and hope for the future of his kids.

I had to turn off and delete the recording once AfterWords started; it's was just horrid self-congratulatory rubbish. Even with Sutter, that whole AfterWord concept has never worked right for Sons of Anarchy like it does for some other shows.


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

BlearyEyed said:


> Personally, I thought that the unwritten by-law was definitely about patching TO in.


Considering they explained it in this episode, I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

There's no ending that wouldn't get ripped in one way or another. Turn himself in and go to jail? Be killed by Irish/black/brown/chinese? Mayhem? Go on the run? All of those have negatives.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I thought it was a very good finale. There were things I didn't like about it. But overall I have no unanswered questions. Last week was definitely more action, but I'm good with the wrap up.



Beryl said:


> I'd prefer a "Thelma & Louise" demise. Instead, the poor truck driver has to live with being responsible. A little selfish, IMO.


That's Jax, selfish to the end.


danielhart said:


> I think the idea was that he didn't want to put it on his friends to kill him - truck driver will be fine imo


I think a better way would have been to let the police kill him. They wouldn't have lost any sleep over it.


uncdrew said:


> I was hoping for a cliff too.
> 
> But I liked it. Good song, good camera work, it felt true to Jax.


I love all of the music in this ep.



Cainebj said:


> Poor Juice didn't even make it into the "on last week's show" LOL
> 
> Yeah I agree this was just neatly tying up all the loose ends.
> 
> I would have been fine if they ended the series with last week's final scene.


I think Juice was in the recap at the beginning. It was a short snippet of the scene in the jail when he talked about Gemma killing Tara.



nyny523 said:


> Things that confused me/didn't hear/didn't get:
> 
> 1. The "unwritten bylaw" thing from last week - I don't think it had to do with patching in TO. They even said the other charters might give them grief over it. I thought maybe it had to do with Mayhem - I was surprised that Mayhem was performed by the Original Redwoods alone, without any witnesses from the other charters. I thought maybe THAT was the "unwritten bylaw" - that Jax would be allowed to let his own charter kill him? Anyone else read it this way?
> 
> 2. WTH did Tig and Chibs say to Jax when they hugged goodbye. Couldn't understand a word. Help?


1. Patching in the black guy.
2. CC is my friend. I have to use it on this show all the time. Tig said "I have no words. No words." Chibs said "That'll be it my brother. I'll make you proud."


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

The way Hunnam explained it on Anarchy Afterword, Jax didn't have a plan at all. During the chase, the truck came around the bend and only then did Jax decide he was going to die.

As for the mayhem thing, Chibs is the only one that knew the plan. They took the vote because everyone else in the MC needed to think it was going to happen. But Jax escaping is ridiculous. It would be more believable that he just never showed up for it or that they were going to do it later and didn't get the opportunity.

Why wasn't TO at the vote?


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## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> The way Hunnam explained it on Anarchy Afterword, Jax didn't have a plan at all. During the chase, the truck came around the bend and only then did Jax decide he was going to die.
> 
> As for the mayhem thing, Chibs is the only one that knew the plan. They took the vote because everyone else in the MC needed to think it was going to happen. But Jax escaping is ridiculous. It would be more believable that he just never showed up for it or that they were going to do it later and didn't get the opportunity.
> 
> Why wasn't TO at the vote?


Before the vote Tig told Chibs he sent TO with Alvarez to deal with Conner, saying, "He shouldn't be part of this vote."

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> Considering they explained it in this episode, I'd say that's a pretty safe assumption.


Where? When? I don't remember this AT ALL...


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

For those who didn't go to parochial school, Vanity Fair covers the Jesus references: 
http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/2014/12/sons-of-anarchy-series-finale-jax-dies

It sums it up quite well. Besides the heavy handed, poorly written deification of Jax, it only reinforces what I fear way too many feel about the "Sons": As some brotherhood, lots of appropriate bonding, looking out for each other as if it was some family to be emulated. Given their motorcycle company sponsorship for quite a while they didn't seem to think the primary users of their product gave it a negative image.

The biggest upside of the poor finale was that I'm not sorry to see it go. For most of this season I came along for the ride just hoping to see the bad guys get what they deserve. Nope, didn't happen. That was enough of a disappointment, but not having a show go they way I wanted is not the writer's fault, it's not like I sent a note asking for it. But it could have at least been different than I wanted and good.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Idearat said:


> It sums it up quite well. Besides the heavy handed, poorly written deification of Jax, it only reinforces what I fear way too many feel about the "Sons": As some brotherhood, lots of appropriate bonding, looking out for each other as if it was some family to be emulated. Given their motorcycle company sponsorship for quite a while they didn't seem to think the primary users of their product gave it a negative image.
> 
> The biggest upside of the poor finale was that I'm not sorry to see it go. For most of this season I came along for the ride just hoping to see the bad guys get what they deserve. Nope, didn't happen. That was enough of a disappointment, but not having a show go they way I wanted is not the writer's fault, it's not like I sent a note asking for it. But it could have at least been different than I wanted and good.


This, but the exact opposite for me 

Didn't want to see it go, thought it ended pretty well, and sometimes you end up rooting for the bad guys


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## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

nyny523 said:


> Where? When? I don't remember this AT ALL...


When Jax called for the vote to bring TO in. He explained about the unwritten rule, and how he got the other Presidents to approve violating it.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> When Jax called for the vote to bring TO in. He explained about the unwritten rule, and how he got the other Presidents to approve violating it.


OK - I need to rewatch this tonight because I SWEAR I don't remember this at all!!!


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## BlearyEyed (Jun 11, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> Where? When? I don't remember this AT ALL...


RE: Explaining the unwritten by law

While they were at Diosa (perhaps the guys in this thread pay more attention to those scenes than you do, which is why none of us are confused  ) and TO was left out in the main room, Jax explained that he had talked it over with the other president's and that they had agreed to letting that unwritten rule go. They then had the vote, and brought TO in to give him his cut.

(Edit: Or what Rob said while I was typing)

The only issue I had with the scene, they made special note that in light of TO's past as a Grim, and all he had done for the club, that he shouldn't be a prospect. Then they give him his cut, which says "Prospect" really big on the back. But I can overlook that.

Overall I liked the finale, as well as the thought that JT committed suicide by truck, then some 25 years later, Jax did the same exact thing on the same exact bike.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Idearat said:


> For those who didn't go to parochial school, Vanity Fair covers the Jesus references:
> http://www.vanityfair.com/vf-hollywood/2014/12/sons-of-anarchy-series-finale-jax-dies


That article seems like a mighty big stretch to me. The author could probably find Jesus references in Porky Pig cartoon.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

BlearyEyed said:


> RE: Explaining the unwritten by law
> 
> While they were at Diosa (perhaps the guys in this thread pay more attention to those scenes than you do, which is why none of us are confused  ) and TO was left out in the main room, Jax explained that he had talked it over with the other president's and that they had agreed to letting that unwritten rule go. They then had the vote, and brought TO in to give him his cut.
> 
> ...


I do recall this part - they said they were going to patch him in. He was still a prospect, but his cut had Mr Mayhem on the back, with Prospect underneath, and both the SOA and Redwood Original patch in front (on the other side was Prospect). All of the previous Prospect cuts just said Prospect on the back and front, with NO Mr. Mayhem and neither the SOA or Redwood Original patches. So TO was given more respect than the normal Prospect.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

BlearyEyed said:


> The only issue I had with the scene, they made special note that in light of TO's past as a Grim, and all he had done for the club, that he shouldn't be a prospect. Then they give him his cut, which says "Prospect" really big on the back. But I can overlook that.


I was wondering when someone would bring this up!

My thoughts, they voted/talked about it at the last minute, so they could either give him his cut w/ PROSPECT on the back, or not at all.


----------



## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

nyny523 said:


> Where? When? I don't remember this AT ALL...


It was implied. No specific mention of "the bylaw."

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlearyEyed (Jun 11, 2002)

nyny523 said:


> I do recall this part - they said they were going to patch him in. He was still a prospect, but his cut had Mr Mayhem on the back, with Prospect underneath, and both the SOA and Redwood Original patch in front (on the other side was Prospect). All of the previous Prospect cuts just said Prospect on the back and front, with NO Mr. Mayhem and neither the SOA or Redwood Original patches. So TO was given more respect than the normal Prospect.


Guess I might have to go back and re-watch as well. I do remember Half-Sac's prospect cut being pretty plain, so I'm sure you're right.


----------



## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

cheesesteak said:


> That article seems like a mighty big stretch to me. The author could probably find Jesus references in Porky Pig cartoon.


I'd caught everything the article mentioned except for the call back to the first scene, first episode with the crows. So it wasn't just the author that made the connection.

I don't usually see references to Jesus in Porky Pig cartoons. Off the top of my head all I can come up with is that Jesus probably didn't eat pork.


----------



## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I thought TO wasn't part of the vote because Jax said he wouldn't get a seat at the table for at least a year even though he was coming in full patch.


----------



## BlearyEyed (Jun 11, 2002)

MNoelH said:


> I thought TO wasn't part of the vote because Jax said he wouldn't get a seat at the table for at least a year even though he was coming in full patch.


Jax said he couldn't hold office (I presume President, VP, Sgt at Arms) for a year, he still has voting rights.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

scandia101 said:


> Why wasn't TO at the vote?


Because he's black?

I don't quite get Jax wanting him in the club, or why the others would. And why would TO want to be in this club. It's really pretty scrawny crew who are really mentally messed up.

And after the killings lately, just about everyone but brown wants revenge on them. They might not survive until next season.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I'm reading a book where the mom uses Mr. Fork and Mr. Spoon to help the toddler eat.

So I giggle when they say "Mr. Mayhem".


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

desulliv said:


> It was implied. No specific mention of "the bylaw."


It was spelled out, with very specific mention of "the bylaw."


----------



## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

Just deleted my season pass.


----------



## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was spelled out, with very specific mention of "the bylaw."


The closest it got was, "I talked to Parker and the others. I told them, 'it's a charter by charter choice.' They don't have to like it, but I need support from club leaders. This can't cause any kind of exodus. We need this to land. And they agreed." Bylaw implied.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> It was spelled out, with very specific mention of "the bylaw."


Where? When? What exactly was said that mentioned "the bylaw"?

I didn't hear this!!!


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

dswallow said:


> Frankly I'd rather have seen Jax *turn himself in* and admit to the killings he was involved in and *accept the punishment *for them that he received. The whole suicide thing just smacks of avoiding the problems he's caused others by running away, and leaving his kids stuck never understanding anything about him, and never able to resolve any issues because of it.* Own up to it.* That'd have been far more like he ultimately learned something about his dad's own hopes and desires, and would've represented some sort of turning point in his family and hope for the future of his kids.


He owned up to the Presidents for killing Jury. He accepted the punishment -- death. Suicide was nominally to spare his buddies the trauma of killing him. (Really it was for the writers.)

Turning himself in would've hurt the club and wouldn't have kept him alive very long. How would it have helped the kids?


----------



## midas (Jun 1, 2000)

I did watch the after show. Two comments. 

Not so much this week, but the last time Smits was on, I have to give him credit All these idiots ask the actors questions about what the character was thinking or feeling when a situation happened. Smits was the only one that basically, in not so many words said, "I'm just an actor. I didn't feel or think anything. I just read the words they told me to read." 

Last night, I'm now truly convinced that Kim Coates is a whack job. That boy ain't right.


----------



## Jim_TV (Mar 4, 2006)

I wonder if the people in this thread who missed so many key moments of dialog in this series finale are the same people who claim that they fast forward through the "boring" parts, car driving scenes, skip over certain characters' scenes and fast forward through other "unnecessary" parts of tv shows.


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I usually enjoy Anarchy Afterward, but last night was not their best attempt. Kurt made a horrible host. He mentioned that Kevin's name was on the cue cards, so I wonder if Kurt had to fill in at the last minute?


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> Just deleted my season pass.


I have some kinda sick joy about deleting some season passes after the series finale. Like this one.



hummingbird_206 said:


> I think Juice was in the recap at the beginning.


I meant they didn't show him dead which they did both with Unser and Gemma.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Jim_TV said:


> I wonder if the people in this thread who missed so many key moments of dialog in this series finale are the same people who claim that they fast forward through the "boring" parts, car driving scenes, skip over certain characters' scenes and fast forward through other "unnecessary" parts of tv shows.


I NEVER FF through ANYTHING. EVER.

I am still waiting for someone to give me dialog specifying "the bylaws". I was listening for it, because last weeks episode peaked my interest and in last weeks thread we were guessing what it could be.

Please - illuminate me with the exact dialog that talked about the bylaws. PLEASE. Because I did not hear it...


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

tlc said:


> So, did last week's limp mean anything? Does it tie into the Christianity stuff?


Found it. Charlie Hunnam's toe was broken.

https://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/...paris-barclay-on-series-finale-163009945.html


----------



## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

nyny523 said:


> I NEVER FF through ANYTHING. EVER.
> 
> I am still waiting for someone to give me dialog specifying "the bylaws". I was listening for it, because last weeks episode peaked my interest and in last weeks thread we were guessing what it could be.
> 
> Please - illuminate me with the exact dialog that talked about the bylaws. PLEASE. Because I did not hear it...


He didn't use the actual word "bylaw" last night. This was the dialog though:



desulliv said:


> The closest it got was, "I talked to Parker and the others. I told them, 'it's a charter by charter choice.' They don't have to like it, but I need support from club leaders. This can't cause any kind of exodus. We need this to land. And they agreed." Bylaw implied.


I said last week I thought it was about the Grim Bastards being patched over. I also think it is implied that TO is only the first - that there will be others (but they will have to be Prospects first). It was a few episodes back when Jax first mentioned it to T.O. - and they discussed which members might be good candidates to patch over - and which ones weren't.

It was the same thing when the Indian Hills charter was established - the members were patched over from the Devil's Tribe - not everyone got to make the jump.


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

nyny523 said:


> I NEVER FF through ANYTHING. EVER.
> 
> I am still waiting for someone to give me dialog specifying "the bylaws". I was listening for it, because last weeks episode peaked my interest and in last weeks thread we were guessing what it could be.
> 
> Please - illuminate me with the exact dialog that talked about the bylaws. PLEASE. Because I did not hear it...


It didn't happen. Rob is wrong. It was not spelled out and there was no mention of the unwritten bylaw in this episode.

We already know what the unwritten bylaw is because of Juice's story regarding his father a few seasons ago. Juice's father is black and there's an unwritten no blacks allowed rule.


----------



## EscapeGoat (Oct 12, 2008)

Jax got off too easy. I would have preferred a different ending. Two that come to mind....

After the fake Mayhem execution, as Jax is walking away to make his escape, Chibs pulls out a gun and shoots Jax in the back of the head, stands over his body, and says "Sorry Jackson, we've got to live by the code."

or...

After Jax tells the DA about Jemma murdering Tara, the DA calls in the sheriff and has him arrested as an accessory to the murder. While he's being held on that, the bodies of Unser and Jemma are found and Jax is sent to Oregon for trial. In the last scene we see Jax twenty years in the future, locked up in a protective custody cell where other gangs can't get to him, and he's forced to spend his life miserable and alone. We see Jax open an envelope and pull out a note from Abel telling him what a lousy father he was, attached to a picture of Abel wearing a SOA prospect vest.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> It didn't happen. Rob is wrong. It was not spelled out and there was no mention of the unwritten bylaw in this episode.


And Jin didn't have an affair with her English tutor.


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> And Jin didn't have an affair with her English tutor.


wtf?


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

scandia101 said:


> wtf?


You're arguing that there is another possible explanation for that scene, just as some people were arguing that Sun wasn't having an affair with her English tutor in Lost even after they were shown in bed together ("But they weren't actually shown having sex"). (I brain-farted Jin for Sun.)


----------



## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

EscapeGoat said:


> Jax got off too easy. I would have preferred a different ending. Two that come to mind....
> 
> After the fake Mayhem execution, as Jax is walking away to make his escape, Chibs pulls out a gun and shoots Jax in the back of the head, stands over his body, and says "Sorry Jackson, we've got to live by the code."
> 
> ...


I was kind of hoping Jax would wake up next to Tara and realize her death and all that followed was just a dream - and of course Tara is actually Suzanne Pleshette...


----------



## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

danielhart said:


> I was kind of hoping Jax would wake up next to Tara and realize her death and all that followed was just a dream - and of course Tara is actually Suzanne Pleshette...


:up:


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

desulliv said:


> The closest it got was, "I talked to Parker and the others. I told them, 'it's a charter by charter choice.' They don't have to like it, but I need support from club leaders. This can't cause any kind of exodus. We need this to land. And they agreed." Bylaw implied.


Why do they need it to land?


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

EscapeGoat said:


> Jax got off too easy. I would have preferred a different ending. Two that come to mind....
> 
> After the fake Mayhem execution, as Jax is walking away to make his escape, Chibs pulls out a gun and shoots Jax in the back of the head, stands over his body, and says "Sorry Jackson, we've got to live by the code."
> 
> ...


Either of these would've been phenomenal endings. But I'm not the least bit disappointed in the ending. We got closure on pretty much everything. Sometimes that's all people want.


----------



## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Shaunnick said:


> The wine and the bread was a call back to the pilot episode and a shot of two crows eating bread.


it was very clearly an homage to communion. Both when the homeless lady was sitting on the wall and also the piece on the road with the "wine" flowing to it.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

tlc said:


> Found it. Charlie Hunnam's toe was broken.
> 
> https://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/...paris-barclay-on-series-finale-163009945.html


THANK you. 
That was too odd not to have a reason behind it.


----------



## desulliv (Aug 22, 2003)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You're arguing that there is another possible explanation for that scene, just as some people were arguing that Sun wasn't having an affair with her English tutor in Lost even after they were shown in bed together ("But they weren't actually shown having sex"). (I brain-farted Jin for Sun.)


No, the argument is that the term "unwritten bylaw" was not uttered in the final episode. With the reference to Jax's previous conversation with "Parker and the others", I reason they were talking about the bylaw; they just didn't use the word.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

desulliv said:


> No, the argument is that the term "unwritten bylaw" was not uttered in the final episode. With the reference to Jax's previous conversation with "Parker and the others", I reason they were talking about the bylaw; they just didn't use the word.


My point is simply that it was entirely unambiguous...that is, that there is no reasonable alternate explanation for what they were talking about. So we appear to be saying the same thing, but in an argumentative way.


----------



## Archangel00 (Aug 25, 2006)

VegasVic said:


> There's no ending that wouldn't get ripped in one way or another. Turn himself in and go to jail? Be killed by Irish/black/brown/chinese? Mayhem? Go on the run? All of those have negatives.


Nah, the perfect ending would have been Jax head on into a log truck being driven by Michael C. Hall...


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You're arguing that there is another possible explanation for that scene, just as some people were arguing that Sun wasn't having an affair with her English tutor in Lost even after they were shown in bed together ("But they weren't actually shown having sex"). (I brain-farted Jin for Sun.)


No I'm not arguing that at all. I'm arguing that you don't seem to understand what the terms "spelled out" and "very specific" mean. 
Jax briefly speaking about something concerning the unwritten bylaw without ever saying anything about the bylaw is neither spelling anything out nor very specific.
If a viewer only watched season 7, they would have no idea what the unwritten bylaw is and would have no idea that TO being allowed into the SoA is a big deal. It would just look like they got a new member, like any other member. Those viewers would be left wondering what the bylaw thing was all about.
Not spelled out, not very specific at all.


----------



## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

The aftershow was a hot mess. I watched the beginning and tried to figure out why Sutter was the host. Perhaps it was because previous aftershows were badly moderated but he did no better. He rambled on about his motivation and evolution and I couldn't take anymore. I wanted to know more about the homeless woman but couldn't last long enough.


----------



## Martha (Oct 6, 2002)

Beryl said:


> The aftershow was a hot mess. I watched the beginning and tried to figure out why Sutter was the host. Perhaps it was because previous aftershows were badly moderated but he did no better. He rambled on about his motivation and evolution and I couldn't take anymore. I wanted to know more about the homeless woman but couldn't last long enough.


They did admit early on (at least Sutter and Hunnam) that they were hammered already. And talking about "changing lives" - well, it sounded pretentious, but this show took a lot of unknown actors and made them millionaires, so yes, it did change their lives.


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

Jax murdered Unser, the ex-sheriff who was deputized at the time of his death. Juice murdered Eli while he was the sheriff. I can't remember her name but the female cop who was shot during the club/Aryan drug deal knows SAMCRO was involved in the murder of her partner. The club had it's last two headquarters blowed up. Influential ex-cop Barosky was murdered. This is all known to the police. Now with Chibs blowing Jarry off, you'd think that law enforcement would harass the post-Jax SAMCRO to extinction pretty soon.


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Martha said:


> this show took a lot of unknown actors and made them millionaires


I doubt that.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> You're arguing that there is another possible explanation for that scene, just as some people were arguing that Sun wasn't having an affair with her English tutor in Lost even after they were shown in bed together ("But they weren't actually shown having sex"). (I brain-farted Jin for Sun.)


I understood your post, and laughed.


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Beryl said:


> The aftershow was a hot mess. I watched the beginning and tried to figure out why Sutter was the host. Perhaps it was because previous aftershows were badly moderated but he did no better. He rambled on about his motivation and evolution and I couldn't take anymore. I wanted to know more about the homeless woman but couldn't last long enough.


Am I the only one who thought the homeless woman was pretty clearly spelled out? She was killed in the same accident that killed Jax's father. It seemed pretty clear to me that she was some sort of guardian angel for Gemma and Jax. Her saying, "It's time," in this episode was her saying it's time for him to finish his task and go home.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Sparty99 said:


> Am I the only one who thought the homeless woman was pretty clearly spelled out? She was killed in the same accident that killed Jax's father. It seemed pretty clear to me that she was some sort of guardian angel for Gemma and Jax. Her saying, "It's time," in this episode was her saying it's time for him to finish his task and go home.


If she's dead how could she give Jax a blanket?


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

uncdrew said:


> If she's dead how could she give Jax a blanket?


Magic.


----------



## dswallow (Dec 3, 2000)

uncdrew said:


> If she's dead how could she give Jax a blanket?


The whole series was just a dream. Jax is now stepping out of the shower.


----------



## BlearyEyed (Jun 11, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> Why do they need it to land?


RE: Jax needing to patch over the Grim Bastards (presumably more than just TO) Jax knew he was going to die, that would have put SAMCRO down to 6? What is the lowest number you can have and maintain your charter?

Plus I could see it becoming an issue getting help in the future if Jax used the Grim Bastards for all of this really difficult work, and then they got nothing in the end and wound up just basically fading into extinction the way TO feared.

As for what EscapeGoat said, I expected the same, with Chibs shooting Jax. Only I assumed that was what Jax told Chibs on the roof. He said something about "this is how you earn respect" I thought it was Jax telling Chibs he needed to kill Jax to show that he had the power or some such.


----------



## Odds Bodkins (Jun 7, 2006)

As far as finales go it was pretty solid. I'm going to miss the hell out of this show.


----------



## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

uncdrew said:


> If she's dead how could she give Jax a blanket?


Someone said Jax was Jesus. Or so I heard.


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

Shaunnick said:


> Someone said Jax was Jesus. Or so I heard.


I don't think anyone said Jax was Jesus, but you'd have to be blind or stupid (and I say that because I'm pretty dumb and I caught a lot of this stuff) to not see the Jesus comparisons in the finale.


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

BlearyEyed said:


> RE: Explaining the unwritten by law
> 
> *While they were at Diosa *(perhaps the guys in this thread pay more attention to those scenes than you do, which is why none of us are confused  ) and TO was left out in the main room, Jax explained that he had talked it over with the other president's and that they had agreed to letting that unwritten rule go. They then had the vote, and brought TO in to give him his cut.
> 
> ...


For the record, they were never at Diosa. They were at Red Woody.


----------



## tlc (May 30, 2002)

Martha said:


> They did admit early on (at least Sutter and Hunnam) that they were hammered already. And talking about "changing lives" - well, it sounded pretentious, but this show took a lot of unknown actors and made them millionaires, so yes, it did change their lives.


I imagine that 7 years of steady work is pretty nice in that industry, even if you don't get rich.


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Sparty99 said:


> Am I the only one who thought the homeless woman was pretty clearly spelled out? She was killed in the same accident that killed Jax's father. It seemed pretty clear to me that she was some sort of guardian angel for Gemma and Jax. Her saying, "It's time," in this episode was her saying it's time for him to finish his task and go home.


You should tell Sutter about that because he didn't seem to know that during AA when asked about her.


----------



## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Cainebj said:


> I doubt that.


Looking at most of the primary actors, their networths are all above 2.5 million and looking at their careers on imdb, the bulk of their money would most likely be from SOA. An actor in all 95 episodes earning as little as $25K/ep would have earned almost $2.4M


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

Plus, they gained a lot of recognition due to the show.

A handful were already known, but a lot more of them will likely get more work due to their participation in this show.


----------



## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

dswallow said:


> The whole series was just a dream. Jax is now stepping out of the shower.


Just more ways for them to showcase Jax's buttocks.


----------



## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Beryl said:


> I wanted to know more about the homeless woman but couldn't last long enough.


Scandia101 mentioned it, but they did take questions from some of the fans that were at whatever event that was. One woman asked about the homeless girl (who she was or something like that) and Sutter pretty much said he left that ambiguous so people could draw their own conclusions about who she was or how she fit in. I found that revelation less than satisfying.

And yes, they were pretty hammered.


----------



## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

JLucPicard said:


> Scandia101 mentioned it, but they did take questions from some of the fans that were at whatever event that was. One woman asked about the homeless girl (who she was or something like that) and Sutter pretty much said he left that ambiguous so people could draw their own conclusions about who she was or how she fit in. I found that revelation less than satisfying.
> 
> *And yes, they were pretty hammered*.


Yeah, they were "I love you man" hammered!

Hilarious!!!


----------



## Supfreak26 (Dec 12, 2003)

I thought the finale was great. The mayhem part was confusing, the Jesus references were hokey, and the ending was a little cheesy but overall, I thought it was a fitting ending to the series. 

The after show was still awful, though. I hate it when actors sit around and act like their job is all spiritual and meaningful. Your just an actor, dude. Get over yourself!


----------



## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

scandia101 said:


> Looking at most of the primary actors, their networths are all above 2.5 million and looking at their careers on imdb, the bulk of their money would most likely be from SOA. An actor in all 95 episodes earning as little as $25K/ep would have earned almost $2.4M


OK - let's do your math.
Let's assume each of these actors were in all 95 episodes and got $25K an ep (no way in hell)
Total = $2,375,000 divided by 7 years = $339K a year
What were they living on?
So - how much of that $2.4 is left after taxes and living expenses?

Charlie Hunnam is in fact a millionaire - but not from SOA - he owns a chain of hamburger joints in the UK, sells several product lines (apparently vodka in the UK), and has a ton of endorsement deals. 
Plus he is a movie star.

Is Katy Segal a millionaire? Yes probably, but she has been in the business for years.

Ron Perlman? Maybe.

Jimmy Smits? Maybe but not from SOA.

The supporting cast? 
Mark Boone Junior, Kim Coates, Tommy Flanagan, Theo Rossi, Dayton Callie, Maggie Siff, Ryan Hurst.

How bout the guys that play Happy and Ratboy?

I *seriously* doubt it.


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

What's scale for actors?

Because for writers, it's $25K per script (assuming only one writer) for a one-hour non-network show.


----------



## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

Beryl said:


> The aftershow was a hot mess. I watched the beginning and tried to figure out why Sutter was the host. Perhaps it was because previous aftershows were badly moderated but he did no better. He rambled on about his motivation and evolution and I couldn't take anymore. I wanted to know more about the homeless woman but couldn't last long enough.


Sutter later made a reference to the either the cue cards or teleprompter saying "Kevin says", or something to that effect.
Leading me to think either Kevin Ryder got called away at the last minute, or Sutter thought he should be hosting the final Afterword.

phox


----------



## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

Martha said:


> They did admit early on (at least Sutter and Hunnam) that they were hammered already. And talking about "changing lives" - well, it sounded pretentious, but this show took a lot of unknown actors and made them millionaires, so yes, it did change their lives.


I think/hope Sutter was joking - he's been in recovery for 20 years.


----------



## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> What's scale for actors?
> 
> Because for writers, it's $25K per script (assuming only one writer) for a one-hour non-network show.


Around 1500 bucks give or take.


----------



## danielhart (Apr 27, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> OK - let's do your math.
> Let's assume each of these actors were in all 95 episodes and got $25K an ep (no way in hell)
> Total = $2,375,000 divided by 7 years = $339K a year
> What were they living on?
> ...


If you believe Celebritynetworth.come - they are all millionaires. Katey sagal is supposed to be worth 30 million. Smits 25 million. Hunnam only 8 mil.

The supporting cast folks are in the 3-5 million range

didn't look up happy or ratboy...or quinn...


----------



## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

They're all richer than me, probably including the kid who played Abel.


----------



## R1elvis (May 16, 2014)

EscapeGoat said:


> Jax got off too easy. I would have preferred a different ending...
> 
> After Jax tells the DA about Jemma murdering Tara, the DA calls in the sheriff and has him arrested as an accessory to the murder. While he's being held on that, the bodies of Unser and Jemma are found and Jax is sent to Oregon for trial. In the last scene we see Jax twenty years in the future, locked up in a protective custody cell where other gangs can't get to him, and he's forced to spend his life miserable and alone. We see Jax open an envelope and pull out a note from Abel telling him what a lousy father he was, attached to a picture of Abel wearing a SOA prospect vest.


I actually like this....


----------



## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

Quinn (Rusty Coones) is not really an actor. He's a Hell's Angel and owns a custom motorcycle business.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/coones-379851-illusion-sons.html

Just like the ex-Hell's Angel president (the guy in jail with the voicebox earlier in the show's run), he was brought in to add authenticity within the biking community.

It didn't really work, for as they may watch the show, show up at a rally with an SOA patch or even a T-shirt and you're likely to find a frosty reception at best!


----------



## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Quinn (Rusty Coones) is not really an actor. He's a Hell's Angel and owns a custom motorcycle business.
> 
> http://www.ocregister.com/articles/coones-379851-illusion-sons.html


That helps to explain why he's such a terrible actor.


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## Jon J (Aug 23, 2000)

Future Trivial Pursuit question, "What were the last words in the final episode of _Sons of Anarchy_ and who said them"?

According to my closed captioning, Chicklis' last word was "Jesus".


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Quinn (Rusty Coones) is not really an actor. He's a Hell's Angel and owns a custom motorcycle business.


I wonder who had the most lines this year, Quinn or Montez.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I'm not entirely sure I buy the "Family and Club can't work" message.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

uncdrew said:


> I'm not entirely sure I buy the "Family and Club can't work" message.


Have you seen a family that can work with the club? The Tellers were torn apart by Clay. Opie's family was utterly destroyed from top to bottom. We saw in detail what it did to Jax. Bobby, Tig, Chibs, Juice and Happy all appeared to be bachelors, although we know Tig had a daughter.

What family survived the club?


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## BlearyEyed (Jun 11, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> I'm not entirely sure I buy the "Family and Club can't work" message.


I'm interested to hear more of what makes you make that comment. I do agree that maybe they could have done better in the final season emphasizing the struggle of family versus club, since I feel that is what we are to understand is what ended Jax and his father before him, but (as was pointed out in the post above mine) I think they pretty conclusively showed that you can't be loyal to the needs of both your family and your club.


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## Beryl (Feb 22, 2009)

Sparty99 said:


> Have you seen a family that can work with the club? The Tellers were torn apart by Clay. Opie's family was utterly destroyed from top to bottom. We saw in detail what it did to Jax. Bobby, Tig, Chibs, Juice and Happy all appeared to be bachelors, although we know Tig had a daughter.
> 
> What family survived the club?


I didn't see one that survived in that show. Those clubs are nothing more than gangs. Gangs and families don't mix.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Cainebj said:


> OK - let's do your math.
> Let's assume each of these actors were in all 95 episodes and got $25K an ep (no way in hell)
> Total = $2,375,000 divided by 7 years = $339K a year
> What were they living on?
> ...


The supporting cast is who I was talking about. The comment was that this show made a lot of (not all of) the previously relatively unknown actors millionaires, so for course the known ones like Sagal, Perlman, Hunnam, etc are not relevant. And I wouldn't say a lot, I'd say some.
of course most actors on this show started out at next to nothing, but considering the popularity of the show, Salaries would have increased dramatically.

This show was not their sole source of income. Many would have gotten other acting jobs because of this show. Plus when you have a lot of money, you invest it, you don't just stuff it in your mattress.

My point is that while you say that you seriously doubt it, I say that it's entirely within the realm of possibility.


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

BlearyEyed said:


> I'm interested to hear more of what makes you make that comment. I do agree that maybe they could have done better in the final season emphasizing the struggle of family versus club, since I feel that is what we are to understand is what ended Jax and his father before him, but (as was pointed out in the post above mine) I think they pretty conclusively showed that you can't be loyal to the needs of both your family and your club.


I dunno. Just small sample size. I would imagine there are club members who had families and things are better than the few cases we were shown.

Personally, I don't think Jax could mix a family life with being Jax. He cheats, lies, etc. Not really related to the club, is it? He's just not really a good family man.

Maybe it's more "if you have the morals that let you join the club, you aren't a family type person".


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## BlearyEyed (Jun 11, 2002)

uncdrew said:


> I dunno. Just small sample size. I would imagine there are club members who had families and things are better than the few cases we were shown.
> 
> Personally, I don't think Jax could mix a family life with being Jax. He cheats, lies, etc. Not really related to the club, is it? He's just not really a good family man.
> 
> Maybe it's more "if you have the morals that let you join the club, you aren't a family type person".


Okay, I can see that point of view. And since I think you went to UNC (as did I class of '02) I'm obligated to give you the benefit of the doubt anyway. To me, if the final message and Jax's realization was going to be that you can't be both club and family, the events leading up to his epiphany should have more directly tied to that than perhaps they did.

But even Rat, seemingly less "Jax" than Jax had a scene where he was struggling to be the guy for the club versus the guy for his woman. So I do think they were trying to show the pervasiveness of that issue. Whether it landed or not is another question.


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## Sparty99 (Dec 4, 2001)

BlearyEyed said:


> Okay, I can see that point of view. And since I think you went to UNC (as did I class of '02) I'm obligated to give you the benefit of the doubt anyway. To me, if the final message and Jax's realization was going to be that you can't be both club and family, the events leading up to his epiphany should have more directly tied to that than perhaps they did.
> 
> But even Rat, seemingly less "Jax" than Jax had a scene where he was struggling to be the guy for the club versus the guy for his woman. So I do think they were trying to show the pervasiveness of that issue. Whether it landed or not is another question.


If I'm not mistaken in that episode someone talked to him because he said something not so nice to his girlfriend, and then he had the "come-to-Jesus" moment (no pun intended). But at the beginning of the next episode he was banging one of the Diosa girls. An interesting contradiction if you ask me.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

TonyTheTiger said:


> Quinn (Rusty Coones) is not really an actor. He's a Hell's Angel and owns a custom motorcycle business.


David Labrava was originally just hired as a Technical Advisor for the show as he was also a member of Hells Angels.
He then joined the cast as Happy, and even co-wrote Episode 10 in Season 4 titled "Hands". 
I think he also "advised" on the tattoos the characters wore, as he is a pretty good tattoo artist as well.

phox


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

phox_mulder said:


> David Labrava was originally just hired as a Technical Advisor for the show as he was also a member of Hells Angels.
> He then joined the cast as Happy, and even co-wrote Episode 10 in Season 4 titled "Hands".
> I think he also "advised" on the tattoos the characters wore, as he is a pretty good tattoo artist as well.
> 
> phox


True, except he's been part of the cast since the pilot episode


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## Shaunnick (Jul 2, 2005)

scandia101 said:


> True, except he's been part of the cast since the pilot episode


As a guest. He did not officially join the cast until later.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Shaunnick said:


> As a guest. He did not officially join the cast until later.


How it's labeled doesn't matter. He's been on the show since day one.


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## markymark_ctown (Oct 11, 2004)

Finally got around to watching. Didn't love it. Didn't hate it. Just glad the series is over. It became a mess.

Love some of the alternate ending suggestions offered here. 

My favorite part of the finale was the opening with Springsteen's "Adam Raised A Cain". A somewhat obscure song I never thought would be heard in a TV series but it fit well.


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## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

I didn't like the end. i think he should have either taken it like a man and let mr. mayhem visit from the other club, or, stop his motorcycle on the (slowest ever) chase, fire a bullet into the sky, and let 50 cops shoot him down. 
i didn't want to feel good for him by the end, and seeing him spread his wings and smirk did not do it for me. he got his way again...


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## Linnemir (Apr 7, 2009)

Sparty99 said:


> Have you seen a family that can work with the club? The Tellers were torn apart by Clay. Opie's family was utterly destroyed from top to bottom. We saw in detail what it did to Jax. Bobby, Tig, Chibs, Juice and Happy all appeared to be bachelors, although we know Tig had a daughter.
> 
> What family survived the club?


Bobby and Tig were both divorced. I think Bobby's ex was called "precious' and they definitely mentioned that what he sent her didn't cover the kid's meds for a month. Chibs had a wife and daughter (Fiona and Catlin?) in Ireland. The kid hated CA and so they returned to Ireland.

Juice and Happy were never shown as having arelationship, if I recall correctly.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I deleted the SP this morning.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

nyny523 said:


> Plus, they gained a lot of recognition due to the show.
> 
> A handful were already known, but a lot more of them will likely get more work due to their participation in this show.


One of them is going to be the big bad on "Revenge " when it comes back from winter break


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> One of them is going to be the big bad on "Revenge " when it comes back from winter break


Oooh - can't wait!

I like Revenge!!!


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## Kamakzie (Jan 8, 2004)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> One of them is going to be the big bad on "Revenge " when it comes back from winter break


Which one?

EDIT: found out.


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## scandia101 (Oct 20, 2007)

Kamakzie said:


> Which one?
> 
> EDIT: found out.


Just to make it easier for those that don't know and want to know which SOA actor will be on Revenge


Spoiler



Chibs - Tommy Flanagan
http://variety.com/2014/tv/news/sons-of-anarchy-star-tommy-flanagan-joins-revenge-1201357442/


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

scandia101 said:


> Just to make it easier for those that don't know and want to know which SOA actor will be on Revenge
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


He is also on a couple of episodes of Peaky Blinders.

So. Good.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

scandia101 said:


> Just to make it easier for those that don't know and want to know which SOA actor will be on Revenge
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...





Spoiler



so now I'm going to have to start watching Revenge with CC on?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

goMO said:


> I didn't like the end. i think he should have either taken it like a man and let mr. mayhem visit from the other club, or, stop his motorcycle on the (slowest ever) chase, fire a bullet into the sky, and let 50 cops shoot him down.
> i didn't want to feel good for him by the end, and seeing him spread his wings and smirk did not do it for me. he got his way again...


So was it a really slow-speed chase or just shown to us in Slo Mo?

I honestly couldn't tell.


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## nyny523 (Oct 31, 2003)

It reminded me of the OJ chase.


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## phox_mulder (Feb 23, 2006)

uncdrew said:


> So was it a really slow-speed chase or just shown to us in Slo Mo?
> 
> I honestly couldn't tell.


Pretty sure that era of Harley Davidson wasn't known for breaking any speed records.

Especially after being wrecked at least once, and rebuilt.
Shot up at least once, and rebuilt.
Blown up at least once, and rebuilt.



nyny523 said:


> It reminded me of the OJ chase.


So ya, probably even slower than the OJ chase.

phox


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