# Recomended Bolt Internal Hard Drive



## rick123

Just bought a 500GB Bolt w/ Lifetime (TiVo "Whiteout" event, $450 total) to replace my Premiere Elite. Planning to replace the 500GB HD with a larger (2-3 GB) one prior to putting the unit in service.

I thought there might be a sticky with this info, but there wasn't and I also looked thru the posts in the Upgrade Center back thru summer 2015 and didn't find much help.

Are there 2-3 GB hard drives that are recommended specifically for Bolt model upgrades? Back in the "old days" I seem to remember there were some recommended drives and some that were known not to work with the older models. Are there specific 2.5 inch AV/DVR drives that people are using?

Not looking for anything over 3GB, just looking for something that has been reliable for others so I know I'm not gonna have compatibility issues.

Also, I have not done a hard drive upgrade on a Bolt or Roamio, is it correct that I just swap in the new drive and it will auto format and be good to go? That's just too good if true! (Edit... Is True!)

Thank you Tivo Community!

PS. If your looking for a gently used 2GB Premiere Elite with an opening $1 bid I'll have it on Ebay in a few weeks...


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## rick123

Apparently there are no Community recommendations in this area, so here are some 2.5 inch hard drives listed on Amazon that have user comments stating that the HD was successfully installed into a TiVo Bolt:

1. Seagate 2TB Laptop HDD SATA 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 2.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive (ST2000LM007) (I ordered this one and will report on results...)

2. Seagate 3TB Laptop HDD SATA 6Gb/s 128MB Cache 2.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive (ST3000LM016) (One of the comments said "I had to move things around a bit...)

3. Seagate 2TB Laptop HDD SATA III 2.5-Inch Internal Bare Drive 9.5MM (ST2000LM003) (Successful comment and recommended in a "ZatsNotFunny" article...)

These are the only HDs I could find sold on Amazon that had user comments related to a TiVo Bolt upgrade. If you know of other HDs that work with the Bolt please post them in this thread to help others.



Here is a link to a YouTube video that shows a Bolt HD upgrade. The guy stumbles thru some of the upgrade but you get to see the basics of the procedure...


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## dianebrat

i tell you I'm not encouraged by some of the recent concern over the Seagate firmware issues and now some failures.
I'm heavily leaning to the Toshiba mq03abb300 since I have yet to see anyone say anything negative about it and it's not that much more expensive (and has a better warranty)


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## MacGuruTX

Hmm.. I'm in the same position. I noticed Ross Walker was pointing to taking apart a seagate external 4tb.. A Guide to Upgrading Your Tivo Bolt, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Roamio OTA, Tivo HD, Tivo Series 3 or Tivo Series 2 (Easily upgrade your Tivo Bolt, Roamio or Premiere to 300 Hours+ HD Capacity) - Also includes instructions on how to fix a broken Tivo.


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## rick123

Thanks, Bolt arrived today, have the 2TB HD, will report when mission complete

Don't know why you would buy an enclosed 2.5 drive to take apart when you can just buy a bare one?


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## MacGuruTX

Cost Ratio. Seagate will historically have dirt cheap prices on some of their "backup" external hard drives.
The one that is mentioned is a 4tb for $109 (11/28/2016)
Amazon.com: Seagate Backup Plus 4TB Portable External Hard Drive with 200GB of Cloud Storage USB 3.0 Black (STDR4000100): Computers & Accessories

I've heard allegations in the past that Seagate might be using slower drives in these backup units (or which had higher bad sectors) that didn't meet spec, but I'm not sure if there is any factual validation of that allegation.


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## dianebrat

I gave up and went with the Toshiba mq03abb300, the potential Seagate issues floating around did not instill me with confidence.
I got the Bolt today and expect the drive in a few days.


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## ggieseke

The drives in those Seagate externals have since failed for everyone except one user who lucked into a pair with the version 1 firmware. Even most of the 3TB, 2.5" drives use SMR technology and will blow up in a few months under continuous use.

For anything over 2TB in a Bolt, I'd modify the case and go with and external 3.5" drive.


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## Mad Davey

Being new to Bolt and after reading up a bit, I want a reliable drive.



ggieseke said:


> For anything over 2TB in a Bolt, I'd modify the case and go with and external 3.5" drive.


So if I keep it under 2tb in a 2.5", what drive is the most reliable?

The Bolt+ seems like it must have a 3tb drive, does anyone know the make and model of that drive?

If I go with an external 3.5" drive for reliability, can I use the drive power from TiVo or should I power it externally? I can think of reasons to go either way on this.

After some reading on 3.5" drives it seems the western digital reds are the best reliability for larger capacity drives, does this seem right?

Thanks!


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## ggieseke

The Bolt+ uses the WD Blue WD30NPRZ. I don't think they are available to the general public yet.

The Reds are my first choice right now.


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## Mad Davey

Thanks, I see memory for less selling a refurbished WD30NPRZ for $338, the price seems out of line. The Toshiba MQ03ABB300 seems like the best bet. Someone on the forum mentioned it's better to do the procedure required for larger drives to align something, is there any merit to this or should I just throw it in there after the box updates and be done?


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## dianebrat

Mad Davey said:


> Thanks, I see memory for less selling a refurbished WD30NPRZ for $338, the price seems out of line. The Toshiba MQ03ABB300 seems like the best bet. Someone on the forum mentioned it's better to do the procedure required for larger drives to align something, is there any merit to this or should I just throw it in there after the box updates and be done?


You should be fine with the 3TB Toshiba and just dropping it in, mine is showing up today or tomorrow so I'll be installing over the weekend if you want a testimonial.


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## Mad Davey

Thanks Diane,
My understanding is the bolt might not format over 2tb until it takes the update/s. That alone may be good reason to bless the drive in a pc first.

Ok so here is the scenario, I got my bolt, I called Comcast to get it working, this took a number of calls and different cable cards, my past experiences with three previous TiVo's were the same. I get it working stock first, once it works I use it for a few days hoping it takes updates and to verify it works and doesn't have to go back to TiVo. My first bolt unit is currently on it's way back due to a known error that they are working on that does not allow the apps like Netflix to load. Now I have to repeat the previous steps with the replacement unit. Once it updates and works 100% for a week or so, then I will change the drive, at which time I believe I would have to call Comcast again since the hardware changed. It is already proving very time consuming, I need better hobbies.


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## ggieseke

Comcast has a web interface for pairing CableCARDs now.

Welcome Page

Bolts came out after the 2TB limit was fixed, but it's probably worth a few hours to let it update anyway. If there's a problem with the unit straight out of the box you don't want the first call home it makes to log the drive swap in their database.


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## oryan_dunn

ggieseke said:


> The drives in those Seagate externals have since failed for everyone except one user who lucked into a pair with the version 1 firmware. Even most of the 3TB, 2.5" drives use SMR technology and will blow up in a few months under continuous use.
> 
> For anything over 2TB in a Bolt, I'd modify the case and go with and external 3.5" drive.


From all I've read, the Toshiba is PMR. I also got the Bolt during the whiteout sale, and am going to order the Toshiba.


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## dianebrat

mutter mutter PITA cheap plastic..
I was super delicate but the tabs on the little cover broke off, but I think they were broken before I did anything since I heard something in the case before trying to open it.
Toshiba went in super easy, reformatted and dropped the OS automagically and now it has 479 hours of space, so I'm good, time to move it over to being my primary box.


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## aaronwt

Seagate has a new 5TB, 2.5inch drive out. If I weren't using these two 4TB Seagate drives in my Bolts for the last fourteen months, I would try it out.


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## Mad Davey

I'll sell you my 5tb 2.5" Seagate for $30 off what I paid on amazon shipped, it's in my car and going back in the morning. Used less than a day and works perfect. I hate returning stuff and if you want to take one for the team we'd all like to see how it's surviving in a year or more. Purchased less than a week ago. Not sure I trust it but who knows. Haven't read great things about TiVo and the shingled write technology in TiVo. This is rumored to be a hybrid where shingled write is used less, but I opted for the 3tb normal Toshiba instead.


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## aaronwt

Mad Davey said:


> I'll sell you my 5tb 2.5" Seagate for $30 off what I paid on amazon shipped, it's in my car and going back in the morning. Used less than a day and works perfect. I hate returning stuff and if you want to take one for the team we'd all like to see how it's surviving in a year or more. Purchased less than a week ago. Not sure I trust it but who knows. Haven't read great things about TiVo and the shingled write technology in TiVo. This is rumored to be a hybrid where shingled write is used less, but I opted for the 3tb normal Toshiba instead.


Thanks but I don't plan on opening up my two Bolts again unless I need to replace the 4TB drives. They have been working great since OCtober 2015 and I don't want to do anything to risk that.

SUpposedly the 4TB drives are the same hybrid type.


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## oryan_dunn

Since the Bolt supports 3TB natively, is it still recommended to use the MFS tool?

I'll be using the Toshiba, which is an Advanced Format 512e drive, which emulates a 512 byte drive. Advanced Format - Wikipedia



> It aligns the MFS file (application) and inode "zones" correctly for Advanced Format (4K) drives. That should improve performance and reduce wear & tear on the drive.


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## aaronwt

oryan_dunn said:


> Since the Bolt supports 3TB natively, is it still recommended to use the MFS tool?
> 
> I'll be using the Toshiba, which is an Advanced Format 512e drive, which emulates a 512 byte drive. Advanced Format - Wikipedia


I use *MFS Reformatter (mfsr)* on every drive it's capable of working with. 2TB drives and larger.
SInce ...


> It aligns the MFS file (application) and inode "zones" correctly for Advanced Format (4K) drives. That should improve performance and reduce wear & tear on the drive. This is something that I don't think has ever been addressed before.


MFS Reformatter (mfsr)


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## dianebrat

oryan_dunn said:


> Since the Bolt supports 3TB natively, is it still recommended to use the MFS tool?
> 
> I'll be using the Toshiba, which is an Advanced Format 512e drive, which emulates a 512 byte drive. Advanced Format - Wikipedia


IMNSHO no, it's not needed, you can drop the Toshiba in and the Bolt will format it on its own, obviously not all members agree


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## ggieseke

I think it's worth a few extra minutes even on a 3TB drive to align all of the MFS zones properly for AF drives, but Diane is right. It will work fine with the factory layout. The media zones are the ones that really matter and TiVo started aligning them properly when the Roamios were introduced.


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## cpm0813

I also bought a refurb 500 GB Bolt with Lifetime during the sale and was planning to upgrade the HD. I was going to go with the recommended drive on A Guide to Upgrading Your Tivo Bolt, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Roamio OTA, Tivo HD, Tivo Series 3 or Tivo Series 2 (Easily upgrade your Tivo Bolt, Roamio or Premiere to 300 Hours+ HD Capacity) - Also includes instructions on how to fix a broken Tivo. , but now I am seeing posts about problems with the recommended 4 TB drive on these forums. I am quite confused about my options now and would appreciate some help. Thanks.


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## oryan_dunn

cpm0813 said:


> I also bought a refurb 500 GB Bolt with Lifetime during the sale and was planning to upgrade the HD. I was going to go with the recommended drive on A Guide to Upgrading Your Tivo Bolt, Tivo Premiere, Tivo Roamio, Tivo Roamio OTA, Tivo HD, Tivo Series 3 or Tivo Series 2 (Easily upgrade your Tivo Bolt, Roamio or Premiere to 300 Hours+ HD Capacity) - Also includes instructions on how to fix a broken Tivo. , but now I am seeing posts about problems with the recommended 4 TB drive on these forums. I am quite confused about my options now and would appreciate some help. Thanks.


At this point, it seems the safest options are the Toshiba 3TB or the WD 3TB. The WD is generally not available, so that leaves the Toshiba as the best one for now. My Toshiba should be here Monday.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


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## cpm0813

oryan_dunn said:


> At this point, it seems the safest options are the Toshiba 3TB or the WD 3TB. The WD is generally not available, so that leaves the Toshiba as the best one for now. My Toshiba should be here Monday.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


Do you mean MQ03ABB300? I would like something I can get on Amazon. Also, if I was okay with just 2 TB, then what would you recommend? Thanks.


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## oryan_dunn

cpm0813 said:


> Do you mean MQ03ABB300? I would like something I can get on Amazon. Also, if I was okay with just 2 TB, then what would you recommend? Thanks.


Yeah, that's the drive. I've bought other stuff from OWC in the past, so I had no problem ordering from them. I ordered Friday, and the drive will be here tomorrow; they ship from near Chicago via first class, so it's fast shipping. Unfortunately, I didn't look any further than the MQ03ABB300 as that seemed to fit the bill for me, and didn't have any complaints here.


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## jg123

Someone in another post mentioned the WD drives were too thick to fit in the brackets.

Edit: here's the link: New Bolt in the house - upgrade underway

I am going the external 3.5" drive with an eSata to SATA cable. We'll see how it goes!


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## aaronwt

jg123 said:


> Someone in another post mentioned the WD drives were too thick to fit in the brackets.
> 
> Edit: here's the link: New Bolt in the house - upgrade underway
> 
> I am going the external 3.5" drive with an eSata to SATA cable. We'll see how it goes!


As long as it's 15mm or thinner it will fit. My 4TB drives are 15mm thick and they have no problem fitting in my Bolt's. Granted it's right on the edge of the size that will fit in there, but no clips break etc. If you are using a 15 mm drive and your clips are breaking, you are doing something wrong. I've messed with five Bolts installing my two, 4TB drives in them. And never broke any clips because of the thickness of the hard drive.


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## Mad Davey

Do TiVo updates install to the TiVo or to the hdd?


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## jmbach

Mad Davey said:


> Do TiVo updates install to the TiVo or to the hdd?


For Bolts and Roamios the OS resides on a flash drive that gets updated. The update, I believe, transiently is downloaded to the hard drive until the flash is updated.


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## Mad Davey

Is there any way to verify the unit has formatted and will be using the full 3tb?


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## jmbach

Mad Davey said:


> Is there any way to verify the unit has formatted and will be using the full 3tb?


Look here.


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## aaronwt

Mad Davey said:


> Is there any way to verify the unit has formatted and will be using the full 3tb?


Whenever I put I new hard drive in a TiVo, the first thing I do is fill it up with content to make sure there are no issues. Whether the drive is 1TB, 4TB, or 5TB I spend the next week filling it up with long 12 hour + recordings and transfers from other TiVos and transfers from KMTTG.


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## oryan_dunn

So, I got the Toshiba drive installed, and I now have a 3TB Bolt! Yay!...

But something I noticed that I hadn't seen anyone else mention... where the 500GB AV drive was silent, you can hear the ticking as the heads move in the Toshiba. It's not really loud, but very noticeable compared to the silent operation of the stock WD drive.

So, I'm a bit conflicted as to what to do. I could just live with it, put the stock drive back in and live with that, put the stock drive back in and wait for a larger capacity AV drive that will be silent, or get a 1TB AV drive like what's in the 1TB Bolt.

The Bolt will be in the basement man cave, which I don't use that often, so the noise will normally never be an issue; but, when I'm playing games or watching movies, I have a feeling it'll be annoying.

Edit: Well, looking into the specs, it seems the 1TB WD AV drive may not be much of an upgrade (sound wise) and the 500GB seems to be exceptionally quiet...
WD5000LUCT: 17dBA idle, 22dBA seek Wd Av-25 Wd5000luct 500 Gb 2.5 Internal Hard Drive - Sata - 5400 Rpm - 16 Mb Buffer-Newegg.com
WD10JUCT: 24dBA idle, 25dBA seek Western Digital WD10JUCT WD AV 2.5-inch 1TB 5400 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive-Newegg.com
MQ03ABB300: 25dBA idle, 25dBA seek http://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/...ual/Specialty-MQ03ABBxxx-Product-Overview.pdf

I suppose I will likely just stick with the Toshiba.


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## Mad Davey

THANKS Jmbach,

To update their information in the link that did help, it is now:

From *TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > (on BOLTs > Help > ) Help > Account & System Info*


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## cpm0813

So what is the current 2TB recommended drive for a Bolt? Thanks.


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## aaronwt

oryan_dunn said:


> So, I got the Toshiba drive installed, and I now have a 3TB Bolt! Yay!...
> 
> But something I noticed that I hadn't seen anyone else mention... where the 500GB AV drive was silent, you can hear the ticking as the heads move in the Toshiba. It's not really loud, but very noticeable compared to the silent operation of the stock WD drive.
> 
> So, I'm a bit conflicted as to what to do. I could just live with it, put the stock drive back in and live with that, put the stock drive back in and wait for a larger capacity AV drive that will be silent, or get a 1TB AV drive like what's in the 1TB Bolt.
> 
> The Bolt will be in the basement man cave, which I don't use that often, so the noise will normally never be an issue; but, when I'm playing games or watching movies, I have a feeling it'll be annoying.
> 
> Edit: Well, looking into the specs, it seems the 1TB WD AV drive may not be much of an upgrade (sound wise) and the 500GB seems to be exceptionally quiet...
> WD5000LUCT: 17dBA idle, 22dBA seek Wd Av-25 Wd5000luct 500 Gb 2.5 Internal Hard Drive - Sata - 5400 Rpm - 16 Mb Buffer-Newegg.com
> WD10JUCT: 24dBA idle, 25dBA seek Western Digital WD10JUCT WD AV 2.5-inch 1TB 5400 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive-Newegg.com
> MQ03ABB300: 25dBA idle, 25dBA seek http://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/...ual/Specialty-MQ03ABBxxx-Product-Overview.pdf
> 
> I suppose I will likely just stick with the Toshiba.


You can hear the ticking with the 500GB drive too when reading/writing a bunch of streams. You can hear this with every platter hard drive made. My 4TB drives sound similar to the 500GB stock drive. When it's reading/writing a bunch of streams that's when you easily hear the ticking. Of course it there is some ambient noise, it's not an issue.


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## scht99

Posted in the mfsr thread too. Will mfsr work on s 2TB drive?

I had a 3TB smr drive from seagate. Lasted about a year in the Bolt. I put a 2TB seagate barracuda 2.5 in and it lasted about a month!!! 

Looking for any recommendation to improve reliability. Should I just go external and use a red drive? I hate having an extra box, but I can't have tivo dying.


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## sfhub

scht99 said:


> Posted in the mfsr thread too. Will mfsr work on s 2TB drive?
> 
> I had a 3TB smr drive from seagate. Lasted about a year in the Bolt. I put a 2TB seagate barracuda 2.5 in and it lasted about a month!!!
> 
> Looking for any recommendation to improve reliability. Should I just go external and use a red drive? I hate having an extra box, but I can't have tivo dying.


I was under the impression mfsr aligns all the partitions, but even if you don't use it, TiVo will align the main video partitions.


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## scht99

running ddrescue overnight to see if I can save my shows. ugh. Maybe it was just a bum drive and I got unlucky.

anyway thx for the quick reply!


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## aaronwt

scht99 said:


> Posted in the mfsr thread too. Will mfsr work on s 2TB drive?
> 
> I had a 3TB smr drive from seagate. Lasted about a year in the Bolt. I put a 2TB seagate barracuda 2.5 in and it lasted about a month!!!
> 
> Looking for any recommendation to improve reliability. Should I just go external and use a red drive? I hate having an extra box, but I can't have tivo dying.





sfhub said:


> I was under the impression mfsr aligns all the partitions, but even if you don't use it, TiVo will align the main video partitions.


I run mfsr on all drives larger than 2TB I have in my TiVos(Bolts and Roamios). Since it won't work with 2TB and smaller hard drives.


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## Mad Davey

I have been running the 3tb Toshiba for about a month now, I don't notice any disk noise, it's working great so far. I think it is the best choice for reliability and size, time will tell. I used mfsr just in case it helps. Just thought I'd chime back in as this forum helped me figure this out.


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## imrf

rick123 said:


> Thanks, Bolt arrived today, have the 2TB HD, will report when mission complete
> 
> Don't know why you would buy an enclosed 2.5 drive to take apart when you can just buy a bare one?


Any update to this drive in the Bolt? How's it holding up? The data sheet says it's an SMR drive and the consensus here says SMR drives are a bad idea for Tivos. Would love to know as I just received my Bolt and looking to upgrade the 500GB drive to preferably to a 2TB drive, maybe the 1TB WD Red if need be. Not really wanting to spend a lot on the upgrade so the 3TB is not what I really want to do.


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## Mad Davey

Toshiba has a 3tb no SMR, $137.00 at Mac sales. Working great for me and a few others here. Seems to be the best option imho.


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## imrf

Mad Davey said:


> Toshiba has a 3tb no SMR, $137.00 at Mac sales. Working great for me and a few others here. Seems to be the best option imho.


Yeah, I decided to bite the bullet and pull the trigger on that one. It'll be here today. Super fast shipping!

Thanks!


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## Paulson

I bought a 5TB external Seagate drive from Newegg for $159.99

It's a seagate barracuda drive. It's big but it fits in the enclosure just fine (can't have the clips that hold the wifi cable down installed on the drive though, it'd be too tall at that point.)

Seagate 5TB Backup Plus Hard Drives - Portable External USB 3.0 Model STDR5000100 Black - Newegg.com

It's extremely easy to remove from the case. You have a spare case, a spare usb 3.0 to sata adapter that works with an 2.5" hard drive and as long as you're gentle with the case you can pop it back in in case you need to send it in for warranty.

Will update everyone on performance (I literally just installed it.) I used the MFSR formatter on it and it appeared to work just fine. Haven't gotten past the initial setup screen to very though that it all stuck!


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## ggieseke

Paulson said:


> I bought a 5TB external Seagate drive from Newegg for $159.99
> 
> It's a seagate barracuda drive. It's big but it fits in the enclosure just fine (can't have the clips that hold the wifi cable down installed on the drive though, it'd be too tall at that point.)
> 
> Seagate 5TB Backup Plus Hard Drives - Portable External USB 3.0 Model STDR5000100 Black - Newegg.com
> 
> It's extremely easy to remove from the case. You have a spare case, a spare usb 3.0 to sata adapter that works with an 2.5" hard drive and as long as you're gentle with the case you can pop it back in in case you need to send it in for warranty.
> 
> Will update everyone on performance (I literally just installed it.) I used the MFSR formatter on it and it appeared to work just fine. Haven't gotten past the initial setup screen to very though that it all stuck!


That drive uses SMR technology.


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## aaronwt

ggieseke said:


> That drive uses SMR technology.


But if it can work like my 4TB firmware 0001 drives in my two Bolts, it will work just fine.


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## ggieseke

aaronwt said:


> But if it can work like my 4TB firmware 0001 drives in my two Bolts, it will work just fine.


You got extremely lucky. I haven't heard of anyone else that still has a working 2.5" 4TB in a Bolt, much less even larger drives. Even with 3TB drives the only one that seems fairly solid is the Toshiba that others have posted.


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## Paulson

We'll see how it goes. I figured out too late that it was SMR. So far so good. Recorded 4 streams plus transferring from another unit at the same time without issue. 

Keeping fingers crossed. We'll see how it goes.


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## aaronwt

ggieseke said:


> You got extremely lucky. I haven't heard of anyone else that still has a working 2.5" 4TB in a Bolt, much less even larger drives. Even with 3TB drives the only one that seems fairly solid is the Toshiba that others have posted.


Really? Even the firmware 0001 4TB drives.? I hope I continue to be lucky then since I'm at 16 months of use with both 4TB drives. And I've yet to see any issues with them. So far they have behaved as well as the 5TB Red drive in my Roamio Pro.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## tluxon

aaronwt said:


> Really? Even the firmware 0001 4TB drives.? I hope I continue to be lucky then since I'm at 16 months of use with both 4TB drives. And I've yet to see any issues with them. So far they have behaved as well as the 5TB Red drive in my Roamio Pro.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Maybe running MFSR makes a difference even though TiVo aligns the media partitions without it... I'm going to be doing an upgrade in a week or so and I'll be running MFSR just in case.

I'm thinking of getting the WD20NPVZ (Same product family as the Bolt+'s WD30NPRZ and Amazon Prime has the 2TB for $117 (sale)). Anybody have experience with this one?


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## tluxon

tluxon said:


> ...
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the WD Blue WD20NPVZ (Same product family as the Bolt+'s WD30NPRZ and Amazon Prime has the 2TB for $117 (sale)). Anybody have experience with this one?


Seems like more people are using the Toshiba MQ03ABB300. I like the greater capacity for a lower price, but I'm torn because of TiVo's selection of the WD Blue NPxZ family of drives in their Bolt+. I can't help but wonder if there are unforeseen benefits in using such a drive. Any thoughts?


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## ggieseke

tluxon said:


> Seems like more people are using the Toshiba MQ03ABB300. I like the greater capacity for a lower price, but I'm torn because of TiVo's selection of the WD Blue NPxZ family of drives in their Bolt+. I can't help but wonder if there are unforeseen benefits in using such a drive. Any thoughts?


. I like the greater capacity for a lower price, but I'm torn because of TiVo's selection of the WD Blue NPxZ family of drives in their Bolt+. I can't help but wonder if there are unforeseen benefits in using such a drive. Any thoughts?[/QUOTE]

TiVos aren't fussy. Any drive that can handle 24/7 writes will work, and the software sets all drives to SATA1 speeds, so you don't need high performance drives. Slow, cool & quiet is the goal.

Unfortunately, there are very few 2.5" drives over 2TB that aren't SMR. The Toshiba drive that you mentioned seems to be a good choice in the 3TB market based on results so far. The WD Blue line also looks good (since TiVo is using them), but they're harder to find.


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## tluxon

ggieseke said:


> TiVos aren't fussy. Any drive that can handle 24/7 writes will work, and the software sets all drives to SATA1 speeds, so you don't need high performance drives. Slow, cool & quiet is the goal.
> ...


Yeah, it's the "cool" part that was most important to me. My experience with most electronics is that heat has a greater affect on longevity than just about anything else (given a clean environment, of course), and I guessed that TiVo's design engineers spent a little time selecting a drive that would cover them there. Any other benefit in choosing from the same drive family (WD's NPxZ series) would likely be serendipitous in that testing of new firmware or such by TiVo will have been done on units with those drives in them. I'm sure any true benefit would be essentially impossible to quantify.


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## Paulson

My 5tb seagate barracuda is working great. $159 shipped from newegg in an external enclosure (bare drive goes for more than $200.) not to mention you can use the USB adapter with any 2.5" data drive and use it for USB 3.0 speeds.


----------



## missdona

What's recommended for the Bolt right now? I see the TOSHIBA MQ03ABB300 is a good choice for 3TB. What's good for a larger capacity?


----------



## fcfc2

missdona said:


> What's recommended for the Bolt right now? I see the TOSHIBA MQ03ABB300 is a good choice for 3TB. What's good for a larger capacity?


I don't think there are any "good" alternatives for a larger capacity internal drive than the 3TB Toshiba. The trouble with the larger SMR drives is that most of them didn't start to have problems for several months before they showed issues. 
The only other option is to go with an external 3.5" drive and either modify the Bolt case, or leave the top off. If you go that route, the standard WD Red's seem to be the best choice.


----------



## missdona

fcfc2 said:


> I don't think there are any "good" alternatives for a larger capacity internal drive than the 3TB Toshiba. The trouble with the larger SMR drives is that most of them didn't start to have problems for several months before they showed issues.
> The only other option is to go with an external 3.5" drive and either modify the Bolt case, or leave the top off. If you go that route, the standard WD Red's seem to be the best choice.


Thank you! We'll go with the Toshiba then.


----------



## JYoung

Any good recommendations for 1 to 2 TB replacement drives for the Bolt?
I'd normally buy Seagate but I'm reading that they are heavily into SMR.


----------



## delgadobb

With a couple Bolt 500Gs on the way, I'm looking to venture into (possibly) uncharted waters & do a 2 TB upgrade if I can make it work ...

Background is I picked up a couple 2 TB WD MyPassport for Mac drives for a good price ($55 each) & I would like to utilize at least one in a Bolt. Caveat: WD makes the connector part of the PCB board inside the case, so instead of traditional SATA connections it's a USB3 interface (pictures below). The drive is 15mm high, so it will fit inside the Bolt although it will be on the higher end of things - if it matters, I won't mind leaving off that part of the cover as I understand the WiFi wire needs to be adjusted anyways.

Here's the drive I have, removed from the case ...


... and here's what the USB3 connector looks like (it's basically a Micro USB with an additional connection next to said MicroUSB. My Samsung Galaxy Note has the same kind of connector & I have a cable that connects to both 'ports' (even though I guess it's technically one connection.) 


What kind of cable or adapter would I need to connect this to the SATA/power connections inside the Bolt? Has anyone done this before? I presume the drive itself (WD Blue) should work fine with the Bolt (i.e. no SMR), but the interface issue will be the challenge ... although I haven't seen one of the Weaknees setups, my understanding is they've set up something to run 3.5" drives by cabling to the outside of the Bolt. I'd like to follow similar principles yet keep the cabling inside given that the drive will fit there.

Open to suggestions from any of the wise, ever-helpful folks here. Worst case I can use the drives as a backup device that's not as cumbersome as a 3.5" external, but I have other solutions for that & in principle this seems like such a natural fit for the Bolt.


----------



## tluxon

JYoung said:


> Any good recommendations for 1 to 2 TB replacement drives for the Bolt?
> I'd normally buy Seagate but I'm reading that they are heavily into SMR.


I chose the 2TB WD20NPVZ primarily because it comes from the same product series that TiVo chose for their 3TB Bolt+ (PDF link). Even with all tuners recording, a transfer from another TiVo running, and streaming a HD Amazon video, I have not once felt the Bolt get hot. The WD20NPVZ was only $117 on Amazon Prime just over a month ago, but they don't seem to have any now. It was plug-n-play simple and seems to be a flawless replacement, so I'm going to look for another for one of the Bolts I have coming.

Edit: Amazon still has it but not on Prime. It's $115.40 with Free Shipping - just not as fast as Prime. I better get one on order.


----------



## aaronwt

Even with 4TB drives in my Bolts, they never got hot with the stock fan. But especially since putting in a new Blackslient XS-2 fan, the temps are much lower than before. Although the thing that will really get the temp up is transcoding two streams to send to tablets while also recording on all tuners. The temps will rise a few more degrees then, but the Bolt still doesn't get hot.


----------



## tluxon

aaronwt said:


> Even with 4TB drives in my Bolts, they never got hot with the stock fan. But especially since putting in a new Blackslient XS-2 fan, the temps are much lower than before. Although the thing that will really get the temp up is transcoding two streams to send to tablets while also recording on all tuners. The temps will rise a few more degrees then, but the Bolt still doesn't get hot.


That's very encouraging to hear, as my primary concerns in upgrading a drive is putting one in there that's going to draw more power than the original spec and/or that it will suffer shortened life due to excessive reads and writes.

Your drives were from external backup drives, correct? Can you remind me what drives they are and what they were packaged in? Do you know if they're still the drive being used in those enclosures?


----------



## oryan_dunn

aaronwt said:


> Even with 4TB drives in my Bolts, they never got hot with the stock fan. But especially since putting in a new Blackslient XS-2 fan, the temps are much lower than before. Although the thing that will really get the temp up is transcoding two streams to send to tablets while also recording on all tuners. The temps will rise a few more degrees then, but the Bolt still doesn't get hot.


Where did you get that fan at? Seems to only be available in Europe.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## aaronwt

oryan_dunn said:


> Where did you get that fan at? Seems to only be available in Europe.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


I got them from Amazon. I got the 4000 rpm version.
Amazon.com: Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2: Computers & Accessories

And here is the 3000 rpm version on Amazon.
Amazon.com: Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilent Fan XS-1 50mm x 10mm Ultra Silent Fan, 3000rpm, 3 pin, 16 dBA, 6.77 CFM: Electronics


----------



## aaronwt

tluxon said:


> That's very encouraging to hear, as my primary concerns in upgrading a drive is putting one in there that's going to draw more power than the original spec and/or that it will suffer shortened life due to excessive reads and writes.
> 
> Your drives were from external backup drives, correct? Can you remind me what drives they are and what they were packaged in? Do you know if they're still the drive being used in those enclosures?


My 4TB drives came from external. I got the Seagate Backup Plus 4TB(STDR4000100) and took the drives out. The problem is I was one of the lucky ones. Both of my drives have firmware 0001 and I've had no issues since October 2015, when I started using them in my Bolts. But I think every one that used them in Bolts with later firmwares, eventually had issues with the Seagate 4TB drive used in the Bolt.
So because of the issue with the later firmwares, the Seagate 4TB drive is not recommended to use.

Seagate does have a 5TB version out now. No idea if the same issues would crop up though.


----------



## oryan_dunn

aaronwt said:


> I got them from Amazon. I got the 4000 rpm version.
> Amazon.com: Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2: Computers & Accessories
> 
> And here is the 3000 rpm version on Amazon.
> Amazon.com: Noiseblocker NB-BlackSilent Fan XS-1 50mm x 10mm Ultra Silent Fan, 3000rpm, 3 pin, 16 dBA, 6.77 CFM: Electronics


Doh, thanks... I looked at the official site and their where to buy links. Feel like a doofus for not checking Amazon first.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## JYoung

tluxon said:


> I chose the 2TB WD20NPVZ primarily because it comes from the same product series that TiVo chose for their 3TB Bolt+ (PDF link). Even with all tuners recording, a transfer from another TiVo running, and streaming a HD Amazon video, I have not once felt the Bolt get hot. The WD20NPVZ was only $117 on Amazon Prime just over a month ago, but they don't seem to have any now. It was plug-n-play simple and seems to be a flawless replacement, so I'm going to look for another for one of the Bolts I have coming.
> 
> Edit: Amazon still has it but not on Prime. It's $115.40 with Free Shipping - just not as fast as Prime. I better get one on order.


I looked at that drive and I've used Blue series for my last couple of laptop upgrades.
I know others have used it as well but I was a little skeptical of the 9mm height.

I also had a credit with Amazon so I could get the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 for about the same price so I went with that.

Thanks for your input though.

Of course, I'm still waiting for my Bolt....


----------



## tluxon

JYoung said:


> I looked at that drive and I've used Blue series for my last couple of laptop upgrades.
> I know others have used it as well but I was a little skeptical of the 9mm height.
> 
> I also had a credit with Amazon so I could get the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 for about the same price so I went with that.
> 
> Thanks for your input though.
> 
> Of course, I'm still waiting for my Bolt....


9mm height? Might be thinking of another drive. The WD20NPVZ is a 15mm height drive.

I'm sure the MQ03ABB300 will be fine for the long term, but I'm betting on the WD20NPVZ primarily because of it being in the family of the WD30NPRZ that TiVo qualified for the Bolt+. That's just the 36 years of being an Engineer comin' out of me...


----------



## aaronwt

It's not like WD has a bunch of different types of 3TB 2.5" drives.
With the 3.5 inch TiVo used their AV drives line. But I think WD only has one type of 3TB 2.5" drive, so TiVo had no choice of what to use

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## JYoung

tluxon said:


> 9mm height? Might be thinking of another drive. The WD20NPVZ is a 15mm height drive.
> 
> I'm sure the MQ03ABB300 will be fine for the long term, but I'm betting on the WD20NPVZ primarily because of it being in the family of the WD30NPRZ that TiVo qualified for the Bolt+. That's just the 36 years of being an Engineer comin' out of me...


Sorry, brain fart.

Yes, 15mm. 
Some have mentioned that it gets a tad tight with the 15mm drive.


----------



## tluxon

JYoung said:


> ...
> Some have mentioned that it gets a tad tight with the 15mm drive.


I agree - it definitely seems to be at about the limit with a 15mm drive.


----------



## tluxon

aaronwt said:


> It's not like WD has a bunch of different types of 3TB 2.5" drives.
> With the 3.5 inch TiVo used their AV drives line. But I think WD only has one type of 3TB 2.5" drive, so TiVo had no choice of what to use.


Very good point, but I can't help scratching my head regarding why they didn't pick the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 drive that so many seem to be having success with. Could there be a gotcha we don't yet know about? Or did TiVo simply choose a drive that wouldn't be as reachable ($338) as an aftermarket upgrade?


----------



## ggieseke

tluxon said:


> Very good point, but I can't help scratching my head regarding why they didn't pick the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 drive that so many seem to be having success with. Could there be a gotcha we don't yet know about? Or did TiVo simply choose a drive that wouldn't be as reachable ($338) as an aftermarket upgrade?


Lots of those STDR4000100 Seagate drives were also used for quite a while (at least a year) before the "4 lights flashing" posts started coming in. The Toshiba drives look good so far, but time will tell.


----------



## Redoctobyr

Ugh, it's a perfectly valid point, but I'm hoping my Toshiba will be reliable despite it  

I've heard some people say the Bolt fans are noisy, and that there is an aftermarket can that can be quieter, while also cooling better. Keeping electronics cooler will generally only help their lifespan. So steps that can help keep the internals a little cooler may help. Keeping vents clear, giving airspace around the box, maybe a different fan, etc. 

Heck, even a normal computer fan that was blowing across the outside of the case might help. I've wondered how practical it would be to use a larger, external mounted fan, ducted to the opening for the normal fan (which could be removed). Probably not practical, but it could give a lot more airflow, with less fan noise.


----------



## aaronwt

Installing the Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 should be enough. In my use it dropped the temps down by a fair amount. I had moved my Bolts to wire shelves. But after installing these fans in them, I moved one back to the normal glass shelf below my UHD TV. And the temps stay below 60 degrees(with wire shelves the temps are now in the low to mid 50's). Unless I'm doing a lot of transfers or streaming to a tablet.


----------



## oryan_dunn

I just installed an xs-2, but where on the Bolt do you go to see the internal temp? It didn't seem to be in the system info list.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## aaronwt

oryan_dunn said:


> I just installed an xs-2, but where on the Bolt do you go to see the internal temp? It didn't seem to be in the system info list.
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


It's on the second page of the system info.

Sent from my Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Redoctobyr

aaronwt said:


> Installing the Noiseblocker BlackSilentFan XS-2 should be enough. In my use it dropped the temps down by a fair amount. I had moved my Bolts to wire shelves. But after installing these fans in them, I moved one back to the normal glass shelf below my UHD TV. And the temps stay below 60 degrees(with wire shelves the temps are now in the low to mid 50's). Unless I'm doing a lot of transfers or streaming to a tablet.


Great info, thank you. I am probably going to wait until the Bolt arrives and see how loud it is, then decide whether to upgrade the fan. I will have to open it up anyhow to install the new HD, so I admit I'm a bit torn, I might break down and order the fan ahead of time, so I could do everything at once. But if opening the case isn't too bad, I'd prefer to see how it sounds, first. I suppose I could leave the case not fully attached, between installing the HD, and upgrading the fan, if required.

I wonder if raising the case a bit further off the shelf (like by putting something under each side of the case) might help a bit with cooling.

Edit: Ehh, just ordered the XS-2 fan. If it's quieter, and also keeps things cooler, that seems worth doing, for $10.


----------



## oryan_dunn

aaronwt said:


> It's on the second page of the system info.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk


Unless it's hiding in plain sight, it's not in my system info screen...

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Quaro

In another fan thread, someone reported they reduced fan noise by attaching the internal fan to the Bolt's USB slot for power. Apparently some of the noise was electrical in nature.


----------



## Redoctobyr

Yeah, I saw that mentioned, it was interesting. 

That means the fan is only running on 5V, vs 12V. So for a given fan, you get less airflow, and the box will run hotter. 

Also, I get the impression that the Bolt can change the fan speed? If that's true, then the TiVo loses that control, if running the fan from another power source. 

You could perhaps run the fan from a separate 12V supply, or maybe even tie it into the 12V power brick's output directly. These would at least let it run at full speed, while hopefully avoiding the electrical noise. You can also get devices to let you control a fan's speed, if you want adjustability. 

I will try the XS-2 fan by itself and see how that goes. Mine won't be in a bedroom, so I don't need totally silent. But quieter would be good, and if I can also keep the box cooler, that would be great.


----------



## aaronwt

oryan_dunn said:


> Unless it's hiding in plain sight, it's not in my system info screen...
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


It's there on every TiVo I own.

On the Bolt it's on page two at the bottom. The Remote address is on the very bottom on page two and the temp, ODT, is listed just above the Remote address. And just below the Dial-in Configuration Code.

Or if you go to the third and last sys info page, since it's not a full page, the temp(ODT) is listed several lines down from the top.


----------



## audiodane

Hi All...

My father just ordered a Bolt with the lifetime transfer offer, but only the 500GB models were left..  I'm seeing on this forum that the TOSHIBA MQ03ABB300 is recommended, but I'm not seeing it in stock anywhere except for some "3rd party vender" on Amazon.

Is this a temporary issue and I should just keep trying over the coming weeks, or is this a discontinued model and I should be migrating to something else?

thanks!
..dane

EDIT: Oh, I just found it here: Toshiba MQ03ABB300 3.0TB 2.5-inch 15.0mm... in stock at MacSales.com ... Nevermind!


----------



## oryan_dunn

aaronwt said:


> It's there on every TiVo I own.
> 
> On the Bolt it's on page two at the bottom. The Remote address is on the very bottom on page two and the temp, ODT, is listed just above the Remote address. And just below the Dial-in Configuration Code.
> 
> Or if you go to the third and last sys info page, since it's not a full page, the temp(ODT) is listed several lines down from the top.


Thanks. Silly me, I was looking for something with temp in the name...

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Quaro

Are the clips on the harddrive for the wireless cable routing really necessary? Why are they there? Is it to keep the wire away from heat?

I just put in the Toshiba and it's a pain to get them to fit. Can I just skip the clips? I don't plan on moving the Tivo around much...


----------



## jmbach

The Bolt+ runs the wire under the drive through some slits in the plastic supports there to keep the wire routed in place.


----------



## Quaro

jmbach said:


> The Bolt+ runs the wire under the drive through some slits in the plastic supports there to keep the wire routed in place.


I understand the clips are for routing the wire adjacent to the hard drive, but why does the wire have to be routed like that? It seems stable enough without them?

Is it because to keep the wire from too close to the heat from the hard drive, or to prevent the wire from hitting the fan if it's loose? Has anyone tried without the little white cable guides?


----------



## oryan_dunn

Quaro said:


> I understand the clips are for routing the wire adjacent to the hard drive, but why does the wire have to be routed like that? It seems stable enough without them?
> 
> Is it because to keep the wire from too close to the heat from the hard drive, or to prevent the wire from hitting the fan if it's loose? Has anyone tried without the little white cable guides?


I removed the outer clip because it wouldn't fit with the 15mm drive. I used a piece of tape to hold it in place. I wonder what a bolt plus has for wire guides...

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


----------



## Quaro

Well I just put it back together without the guides. It SEEMS fine. But if anyone think it's worth opening it back up to put in at least one guide or some tape or something, let me know...


----------



## Mikeguy

What I saw in the hard drive replacement video was the recommendation that the wire guides be removed and then replaced a little bit closer to the center of the box, where there is a little more room.


----------



## aaronwt

oryan_dunn said:


> I removed the outer clip because it wouldn't fit with the 15mm drive. I used a piece of tape to hold it in place. I wonder what a bolt plus has for wire guides...
> 
> Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk


The clips fit just fine with my two 15mm 4TB drives. I just have them situated on the left part(side toward the center of the Bolt) of the drive where there is more space above it.

I've had these two 4TB drives in seven Bolts now. And they fit in every one without issues. As well as the clips.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## tluxon

It seems to be commonly assumed that PMR technology is superior to SMR technology for use in DVRs - and perhaps in general. However, I can't seem to find a really clear answer as to WHY. Is it because SMR is better suited for Write-Once-Read-Many applications (similar to SSDs)?


----------



## Eric Miller

Has anyone used or has thoughts about using the WD30NMVW-11C3NS4 in the bolt?


----------



## Redoctobyr

Eric Miller said:


> Has anyone used or has thoughts about using the WD30NMVW-11C3NS4 in the bolt?


This appears to be a larger version of the 2TB drive shown in post #62 of this thread. That one has a USB 3.0 header on the drive itself, NOT a SATA plug. Which means it can't plug into the Bolt's SATA port without some sort of adapter.

And I was Googling the other day, and was unable to find an adapter to convert from a USB drive *to* SATA. Most adapters convert in the other direction.

That doesn't mean that a USB-drive-to-SATA-plug adapter doesn't exist, but I wasn't able to find one online. First you'd need to find one, then you'd need to confirm it would work with a Bolt. It would be much simpler to find a drive with a SATA plug.


----------



## Eric Miller

Redoctobyr said:


> This appears to be a larger version of the 2TB drive shown in post #62 of this thread. That one has a USB 3.0 header on the drive itself, NOT a SATA plug. Which means it can't plug into the Bolt's SATA port without some sort of adapter.
> 
> And I was Googling the other day, and was unable to find an adapter to convert from a USB drive *to* SATA. Most adapters convert in the other direction.
> 
> That doesn't mean that a USB-drive-to-SATA-plug adapter doesn't exist, but I wasn't able to find one online. First you'd need to find one, then you'd need to confirm it would work with a Bolt. It would be much simpler to find a drive with a SATA plug.


Thanks, was going to try an adapter, but with the 8tb red going on sale at best buy for $180 I couldn't pass it up.


----------



## krkaufman

Eric Miller said:


> but with the *8tb red going on sale at best buy for $180 *I couldn't pass it up.


Do you have any more details on this? (Or are you referring to the recent WD hard drive sale, now ended?)


----------



## Eric Miller

krkaufman said:


> Do you have any more details on this? (Or are you referring to the recent WD hard drive sale, now ended?)


Here you go. I bought 2 and both had wd80efzx drives in them.

WD - easystore® 8TB External USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Black


----------



## Mikeguy

Eric Miller said:


> Here you go. I bought 2 and both had wd80efzx drives in them.
> 
> WD - easystore® 8TB External USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Black


Wow--that's pretty awesome, the lowest price I've heard of here, for an 8TB upgrade. Thanks!


----------



## krkaufman

Yup. Looks like the Synology is getting a bump.

And definitely... thanks for the info.


----------



## elbaz

I thought the wd80efzx was a 3.5" drive? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## InFromTheCold

elbaz said:


> I thought the wd80efzx was a 3.5" drive?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah, I noticed that. (Here's the spec sheet.) Maybe we turned the topic to external, but forgot to let people know?


----------



## aaronwt

Yes. No 8TB 2.5" drives yet. It think 5TB is the largest size now. I know Seagate has a 5TB, five platter, 2.5" drive now. With slightly better specs than my 4TB, five platter, 2.5" Seagates.


----------



## jlin

Mikeguy said:


> Wow--that's pretty awesome, the lowest price I've heard of here, for an 8TB upgrade. Thanks!


I bought an 8TB external over Black Friday period for $180 frm Newegg.


----------



## elbaz

Figured as much, but was hoping there was something new. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## imrf

tluxon said:


> Very good point, but I can't help scratching my head regarding why they didn't pick the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 drive that so many seem to be having success with.


Not me, I've had 2 fail withing 3 months. I'm done with these Toshibas. Back to a WD drive in my Bolt.


----------



## Redoctobyr

Oh, don't tell me that, I'm waiting for my Bolt to arrive so I can install my 3TB Toshiba  

Which WD drive are you using?


----------



## imrf

Redoctobyr said:


> Oh, don't tell me that, I'm waiting for my Bolt to arrive so I can install my 3TB Toshiba
> 
> Which WD drive are you using?


Sorry. 

I have a Blue 1TB laying around that I'll put in the Bolt and see how it fares. I'm just getting tired of fighting with these Toshibas, and their warranty policy sucks! Cash card return only.


----------



## sfhub

imrf said:


> I'm just getting tired of fighting with these Toshibas, and their warranty policy sucks! Cash card return only.


Given your experience with Toshibas I would think it is better they gave you a cash card rather than being stuck with a drive you have no confidence in.


----------



## imrf

sfhub said:


> Given your experience with Toshibas I would think it is better they gave you a cash card rather than being stuck with a drive you have no confidence in.


It's just these 3TB drives. My old Premier has a 1TB desktop Toshiba drive and 3 years no issues. But yeah, if this drive is bad, i'll never get one. I'd give an SMR Seagate a shot before another one of these.


----------



## TheCryptkeeper

If anyone is going the external route, Best Buy has the WD - easystore® 8TB External USB 3.0 Hard Drive - Black on sale for $179.99. I understand WD Reds are in these and the enclosures are easy to open. Mark1958 has great instructions on how to do this on this thread.


----------



## Redoctobyr

I will be installing a 3TB Toshiba in my Bolt, once the Bolt arrives. I've read that the Bolt can format and manage new drives up to 4TB by itself, you just put the drive in, and the Bolt takes it from there. 

But should I be doing anything else, in addition? I think I saw a mention in another thread of using maybe MFSTools on the drive *after* TiVo had formatted it? I think the comment was to use it to align the disk. 

Should I do this? If so, can someone guide towards info on what I should do, and how? Sorry, I'm sure this has been covered many times elsewhere.


----------



## jmbach

Redoctobyr said:


> I will be installing a 3TB Toshiba in my Bolt, once the Bolt arrives. I've read that the Bolt can format and manage new drives up to 4TB by itself, you just put the drive in, and the Bolt takes it from there.
> 
> But should I be doing anything else, in addition? I think I saw a mention in another thread of using maybe MFSTools on the drive *after* TiVo had formatted it? I think the comment was to use it to align the disk.
> 
> Should I do this? If so, can someone guide towards info on what I should do, and how? Sorry, I'm sure this has been covered many times elsewhere.


Bolts can format anything up to 3TB. Over 3 TB you need to use MFSR to correct the formatting of the drive. You can use MFSR to align the inodes on a 3TB drive.


----------



## Bruzer

Redoctobyr said:


> I will be installing a 3TB Toshiba in my Bolt, once the Bolt arrives. I've read that the Bolt can format and manage new drives up to 4TB by itself, you just put the drive in, and the Bolt takes it from there.
> 
> But should I be doing anything else, in addition? I think I saw a mention in another thread of using maybe MFSTools on the drive *after* TiVo had formatted it? I think the comment was to use it to align the disk.
> 
> Should I do this? If so, can someone guide towards info on what I should do, and how? Sorry, I'm sure this has been covered many times elsewhere.


I just did this for my new Bolt. Download the software and follow the directions listed at the start of this thread:

LINK


----------



## Redoctobyr

Bruzer said:


> I just did this for my new Bolt. Download the software and follow the directions listed at the start of this thread:
> 
> LINK


Perfect, thank you!

Can I ask, does it take a while to run, like a full-format would? To be clear, I kind of *want* it to take a while to format the drive "properly", vs telling Windows to just do a Quick Format, for instance.

I'd been thinking of doing a full-format on the 3TB drive before installing it, just because it seemed like maybe a good idea (if nothing else, I'd see if it fails within a few hours). But if this will accomplish the same thing, then I'll just do what the thread says. Boot up with it in the Bolt, then pull it, and run the MFS Reformatter tool.


----------



## aaronwt

mfsr only takes a couple of minutes with a USB 3 connection.

Sent from my Galaxy S6 using Tapatalk


----------



## Redoctobyr

Ok, thanks. I just formatted a 4TB drive for PC use recently, and with a USB 3.0->SATA adapter, it still took like 8 hours for a full format. Even at 150MB/sec, it takes a long time to write 4TB. 

So this must be doing something more equivalent to a quick format.


----------



## ggieseke

Redoctobyr said:


> Ok, thanks. I just formatted a 4TB drive for PC use recently, and with a USB 3.0->SATA adapter, it still took like 8 hours for a full format. Even at 150MB/sec, it takes a long time to write 4TB.
> 
> So this must be doing something more equivalent to a quick format.


Yes, it's the equivalent of a quick format. I always run a full write zeros test and the extended read test in WD's Data Lifeguard Diagnostics before using a new drive. That takes about 2-3 hours / TB for each test.


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## Koan

Does hard drive cache size make a difference with the Bolt since the OS is on a flash chip? I noticed that the Toshiba MQ03ABB300 and the Western Digital WD5000LUCT AV have a 16MB cache, the 3TB WD Blue WD30NPRZ has a 64MB cache, and the 2TB WD Blue WD20NPRZ as well as another 3TB WD Blue drive have only an 8MB cache.


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## Redoctobyr

The only difference that should make is relative to hard drive performance. I'd speculate it wouldn't make much difference. But I don't think the HD cache size will have any relation to how the OS is stored. 

You don't need to worry about the HD cache size being big enough to hold the OS or anything like that. Sorry if I've misunderstood the question.


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## Koan

I just meant that the OS is probably not a consideration because it is stored separately. So would a larger cache size be of any benefit with the hard disk read/write activity typically performed by the Bolt? As you speculated, it may not make much of a difference. I'm thinking of buying one with an 8MB cache for my new Bolt, but thought I should ask in case anyone knows of an issue with that.


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## Redoctobyr

Speculation only: the cache size likely won't make a noticeable difference in performance. 

I wouldn't let cache size steer me away from a brand that I was more comfortable with, for instance. Or towards a drive not suited to this application (like SMR, or a drive that produces too much heat). 

Maybe if someone has briefly run a TiVo using an SSD, they could tell us if using a super-fast drive makes a noticeable difference in speed. 

But my inclination would be don't worry about it. I don't even know the cache size of my Toshiba 3TB, but it works just fine as far as I can tell.


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## jmbach

Pure speculation but it may affect the drives ability to handle simultaneous streams.


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## aaronwt

It's only a minimum of five or seven read/write concurrent streams depending on whether it is a four tuner or six tuner model. No issue for any 5400 rpm drive.

I don't recall ever having an issue with low cache drives in the past. But I think my current 4TB drives in my Bolts have a 128MB cache. I've had no issue with 12 or 13 concurrent read/write streams when I tested the Bolts. But then the stock 500 GB drives, with a lower cache, also had no issue. And those had a 16MB cache.


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## Koan

I noticed that the 2TB WD WD20NPVZ, which has an 8MB cache, has a few 5 star reviews on Amazon from Bolt users. So I expect the cache size isn't an issue.


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## Jim.Rice

Does anyone know or have any feedback on using the internal drive from a *4TB Seagate external drive* to upgrade a refurbished TiVo 500GB Bolt? After all I've been reading, I thought the Seagate Backup Plus drive (*STDR4000100*) was going to be my go-to drive, but now I'm not so sure about using that drive after reading about the 4-light TiVo error (apparently) caused by the Seagate firmware. Has that issue been fixed, perhaps by a firmware update? Is it better instead to go with an OEM Seagate 4TB drive and skip removing the drive from the external case, or would it be better to go with a smaller capacity Western Digital or Toshiba drive? After reading this forum, I'm also planning to purchase the XS-2 fan to try and keep the inside cool and help with the device life. Thanks!


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## fcfc2

Jim.Rice said:


> Does anyone know or have any feedback on using the internal drive from a *4TB Seagate external drive* to upgrade a refurbished TiVo 500GB Bolt? After all I've been reading, I thought the Seagate Backup Plus drive (*STDR4000100*) was going to be my go-to drive, but now I'm not so sure about using that drive after reading about the 4-light TiVo error (apparently) caused by the Seagate firmware. Has that issue been fixed, perhaps by a firmware update? Is it better instead to go with an OEM Seagate 4TB drive and skip removing the drive from the external case, or would it be better to go with a smaller capacity Western Digital or Toshiba drive? After reading this forum, I'm also planning to purchase the XS-2 fan to try and keep the inside cool and help with the device life. Thanks!


I don't know exactly where and what you are reading, but any of the currently available Seagate 2.5" drives are SMR. Some with the earliest firmware seem to have been lucky, but not with the current drives. It is recommended to use only PMR drives, and the only readily available one in the largest size, 3TB, is the Toshiba, but I still recommend running MSFR on it even though it isn't technically necessary. The whole fan thing is very dependent on your particular unit, some claim it isn't the fan that is loud, others think it is something else with the motherboard entirely, some have reported dramatic reductions to the temperature, others not so much. The Bolt runs hotter due to the faster cpu, and more compact/cheaper case, and I think to some really poor design features like a relatively tiny amount of ventilation. If it makes you feel better to change out the fan please do so.


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## awesomejdub

Jim.Rice said:


> Does anyone know or have any feedback on using the internal drive from a *4TB Seagate external drive* to upgrade a refurbished TiVo 500GB Bolt? After all I've been reading, I thought the Seagate Backup Plus drive (*STDR4000100*) was going to be my go-to drive, but now I'm not so sure about using that drive after reading about the 4-light TiVo error (apparently) caused by the Seagate firmware. Has that issue been fixed, perhaps by a firmware update? Is it better instead to go with an OEM Seagate 4TB drive and skip removing the drive from the external case, or would it be better to go with a smaller capacity Western Digital or Toshiba drive? After reading this forum, I'm also planning to purchase the XS-2 fan to try and keep the inside cool and help with the device life. Thanks!


I mistakenly used the drive from a seagate backup plus since I had one on hand. 2 days later I am getting the video locking up a lot. Ordering the Toshiba right now. I should have listened to everyone on this forum.


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## ClearToLand

awesomejdub said:


> I mistakenly used the drive from a seagate backup plus since I had one on hand. *2 days later I am getting the video locking up a lot*. Ordering the Toshiba right now. I should have listened to everyone on this forum.


You should pull the Seagate and run a Seagate Low-Level Diagnostics on the HDD in a PC.

AFAIK, unless the Seagate is drawing more power than the Bolt can supply, the CONs against using a non-recommended HDD (I'm more experienced with the Roamio) are mostly shorter lifespan. Is the RPM 7200 or less?


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## Alltrac92

dianebrat said:


> mutter mutter PITA cheap plastic..
> I was super delicate but the tabs on the little cover broke off, but I think they were broken before I did anything since I heard something in the case before trying to open it.
> Toshiba went in super easy, reformatted and dropped the OS automagically and now it has 479 hours of space, so I'm good, time to move it over to being my primary box.


Thank you for your notes here. I recently used the same hard drive on a Bolt and everything is working great!


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