# TE3 vs TE4 - why do you like/dislike one vs the other?



## barnabas1969

I've never used Tivo before. I've had Windows 7 Media center as my DVR since 2011. I just decided to go to Tivo and my Bolt Vox (cable card) and Mini Vox's will arrive on Saturday.

Other than the inability to transfer shows between DVR's, what do people dislike so much about TE4?


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## krkaufman

_A work-in-progress list of TE4/TE3 pros and cons, based on feedback posted and past discussion threads ...._

*TE4/Hydra (21.*)*

*~ Pre-roll Ads: *A new differentiator for many is the introduction of pre-roll ads to the TE4 experience; that is, TiVo inserting an Internet-streamed, skippable ad prior to the recorded content that's been selected for playback. At present, TiVo has no plans to bring this "feature" to TE3, which has been in "maintenance mode" (bug fixes only) for nearly 2 years; further, a TE4 customer can contact TiVo Support to have the ads disabled for their account once they have begun airing, providing a workaround short of rolling back to TE3. (see this thread for more info, copious gnashing of teeth and success reports of the ads being disabled)
*- Live Guide:* The absence of the Live Guide as a channel guide viewing option, leaving only the Grid Guide, is considered by many to be a showstopper for TE4 adoption.
*- Suggestions: * The original Thumbs ratings-based Suggestions algorithm has been discarded in TE4, in favor of some alternate algorithm, resulting in less satisfactory results; even the ability to rate programs using the Thumbs buttons has been removed from TE4.
*- TiVo-to-TiVo transfers (MRV), Part 1:* The built-in MRV transfer controls have been removed from the TE4 UI, requiring the use of TiVo Online to initiate any content transfers to a TE4 DVR. An unfortunate drawback of requiring TiVo Online to initiate transfers to a TE4 DVR is that TiVo Online doesn't support MRV-compatible DVR models prior to the Series 4 (Premiere), so users having Series 2 & 3 DVRs on their network are unable to transfer content on these DVRs to their TE4 DVR (absent a Premiere or later DVR running TE3, to act as a middleman ... or performing the content transfer prior to upgrading to TE4).
*- TiVo-to-TiVo transfers (MRV), Part 2: *Aside from the hassles and limitations of having to use TiVo Online to initiate MRV transfers to a TE4 DVR, the transfer process has been problematic, sometimes resulting in unplayable content once received. 
*- PC-to-TiVo transfers: * Removal of the built-in transfer (MRV) controls from TE4 eliminated the ability to pull content from a PC to the TiVo hard drive, via a compatible program running on the PC (e.g. TiVo Desktop, PyTivo). Similar to MRV transfers from a Series 2 or 3 DVR, a PC-to-TE4 transfer would require a Premiere or later DVR running TE3, to act as a middleman, to first get the content onto a box compatible with TiVo Online.
*+ VOX Voice Control:* The VOX voice features are only available on TE4.
*+ Auto Skip:* The Auto Skip feature is only available, at present, on TE4.
*+ Video Window:* The Video Window transitions have been improved in TE4, eliminating video and audio drop-outs; additionally, Mini's on TE4 can now display the Video Window beyond just the Guide.
*+ HDMI-CEC integration:* Though limited in scope, TiVo's HDMI-CEC integration is currently available only for BOLT and Roamio DVRs running TE4 -- though not any Minis, regardless of their software version. (see Megamind's post, below, for more details)
*+ **HDR Support:* limited to BOLT & EDGE running TE4 (see here; h/t @KevTech)
*- Premieres and older: *TE4 is not available for DVRs prior to the Roamio series, so homes with any Premiere or older DVRs would be faced with mixed UIs were they to adopt TE4 on eligible boxes; this can be more problematic for homes where users are accustomed to flipping Minis between host DVRs, as Minis must be running the software version matching their host DVR.
*- Evaluation Cost:* Given that rollback from TE4 to TE3 requires a factory reset of the DVR, wiping-out all recordings and settings, the cost associated with evaluating TE4 has been too steep for some users. The ability to backup & restore unprotected content and some settings post-rollback can mitigate some of the pain, but this effort, too, can be an unacceptable burden.
*- Uber-migration:* Owing to the MRV transfer limitations cited above, migrating from an older Series 2 or 3 box to a TE4 DVR is problematic, at best, so it is recommended that the TE4 DVR be rolled-back to TE3 after initial setup in order to enable direct content transfers from the older box(es), after which the new DVR can be upgraded to TE4, if desired, leaving MRV with the older boxes behind. Tipping this bullet into the negative/con territory is the fact that some TiVo hardware (see: BOLT OTA, and possibly the upcoming Edge series) is TE4-only, precluding rollback and direct transfer from the older models.

*TE3/Encore (20.*)*

*+ Live Guide*
*+ Suggestions: *TiVo's original Thumbs ratings-based Suggestions algorithm lives-on in TE3, to the joy of those whose first post-Guided Setup action is _not _disabling Suggestions.
*+ TiVo-to-TiVo transfers (MRV)*
*+ PC-to-TiVo transfers*
*+ QuickMode speed customization:* TE3 allows customization of QuickMode playback speed, from 1.1x to 1.9x, via SPS code entry; there have been no reports of the customization sequence being successfully entered on TE4 and our lone TiVo rep hasn't responded to requests for feedback on TE4 availability. (more info here)
*~ WYGIWYG:* Arguable whether it's a negative or positive, but development for TE3 has pretty much ended; patches, updates and new features have ground to a halt, with no new update in over a year. 

*TBD*

Voice assistant integration ?
DIY drive upgrade issues ?
TiVo streaming app compatibility ?
Issues w/ Mini VOX running TE3 ?
review trip1eX's post
what happened to Smart Extend for TE4 ?
Wireless Mini Adapter compatibility ?
Standby-related issues ?

*NOTES*

*UI Availability:* TE4 is only available to Roamio or later DVRs, with all Roamio and BOLT models (excluding the BOLT OTA) having the option to run either UI version, TE3 or TE4; the BOLT OTA model and all new EDGE DVRs are restricted to TE4, with no option to rollback to TE3, while Premiere and older DVRs are TE3-only. A TiVo Mini's software will be upgraded/downgraded to match the UI version running on its configured host DVR.
*Roll-back instructions:* See this thread for information on downgrading an eligible TE4 DVR to TE3.

h/t: @Mikeguy @Megamind @JoeKustra @TiVo_Ted @V7Goose 


30Jan2020: Updated to reflect ability to request pre-roll ad removal
13Oct2020: Updated re: Mini TE4 Video Window persistence (h/t @dougtv )

#TE3vsTE4 #TE4vsTE3 #TECompare


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## kpeters59

When I got my first Series 1, I was mostly taken with how intuitive the interface was and that reading 'the manual' just wasn't necessary.

When I fuss around with other peoples TE4 machines, I regularly don't intuitively know which button to push. I always figure it out, but TE3 (and before) it sure ain't...

-KP


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## Mikeguy

On TE3, apart from on-box, inter-box transfer capability and PC -> TiVo box transfer capability, Live Guide, and Suggestions (really) that works.


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## krkaufman

Pros/cons list in post #2 has been updated.


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## KevTech

So would HDR on the Bolt be in the list?
On TE3 Netflix shows are in Ultra HD 4K.
On TE4 21.9.2.v4 update there is now an HDR option in video setting and Netflix shows are in HDR.
Or is it just that they updated the apps?
I read the bolts could always do HDR but up until the 21.9.2.v4 update all shows on Netflix showed they were in Ultra HD 4K but now it is HDR.
But my TV apps still beat Tivo as Netflix through TV app show in Dolby Vision.


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## krkaufman

KevTech said:


> So would HDR on the Bolt be in the list?
> On TE3 Netflix shows are in Ultra HD 4K.
> On TE4 21.9.2.v4 update there is now an HDR option in video setting and Netflix shows are in HDR.
> Or is it just that they updated the apps?
> I read the bolts could always do HDR but up until the 21.9.2.v4 update all shows on Netflix showed they were in Ultra HD 4K but now it is HDR.
> But my TV apps still beat Tivo as Netflix through TV app show in Dolby Vision.


Some apps require TE4 for HDR, I believe. I didn't have time to track down the specifics, so dropped it into TBD.


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## Sparky1234

krkaufman said:


> _A work-in-progress list of TE4/TE3 pros and cons, based on feedback posted and past discussion threads ...._
> 
> *TE4/Hydra (21.*)*
> 
> *- Live Guide:* The absence of the Live Guide as a channel guide viewing option, leaving only the Grid Guide, is considered by many to be a showstopper for TE4 adoption.
> *- Suggestions: * The original Thumbs ratings-based Suggestions algorithm has been discarded in TE4, in favor of some alternate algorithm, resulting in less satisfactory results; even the ability to rate programs using the Thumbs buttons has been removed from TE4.
> *- TiVo-to-TiVo (MRV) transfers:* Aside from the hassle of having to use TiVo Online to initiate MRV transfers to a TE4 DVR, the transfer process has been problematic, sometimes resulting in unplayable content once received.
> *- PC-to-TiVo transfers: * Removal of the built-in transfer (MRV) controls from TE4 eliminated the ability to pull content from a PC to the TiVo hard drive, via a compatible program running on the PC (e.g. TiVo Desktop, PyTivo);
> *+ VOX Voice Control:* The VOX voice features are only available on TE4.
> *+ Auto Skip:* The Auto Skip feature is only available, at present, on TE4.
> *+ Video Window:* The Video Window transitions have been improved in TE4, eliminating video and audio drop-outs.
> *- Premieres, etc.: *TE4 is not available for DVRs prior to the Roamio series, so homes with any Premiere or older DVRs would be faced with mixed UIs were they to adopt TE4 on eligible boxes; this can be more problematic for homes where users are accustomed to flipping Minis between host DVRs, as Minis must be running the software version matching their host DVR.
> 
> *TE3/Encore (20.*)*
> 
> *+ Live Guide*
> *+ Suggestions*
> *+ TiVo-to-TiVo transfers (MRV)*
> *+ PC-to-TiVo transfers*
> *+ QuickMode speed customization:* TE3 allows customization of QuickMode playback speed, from 1.1x to 1.9x, via SPS code entry; there have been no reports of the customization sequence being successfully entered on TE4 and our lone TiVo rep hasn't responded to requests for feedback on TE4 availability. (more info here)
> 
> *TBD*
> 
> CEC integration ?
> UHD or HDR functionality ?
> Voice assistant integration ?
> 
> h/t: @Mikeguy


Great summary. I can't use TiVo without PC to Tivo transfer and TiVo to TiVo transfer so I fully support TE3.


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## TonyD79

kpeters59 said:


> When I got my first Series 1, I was mostly taken with how intuitive the interface was and that reading 'the manual' just wasn't necessary.
> 
> When I fuss around with other peoples TE4 machines, I regularly don't intuitively know which button to push. I always figure it out, but TE3 (and before) it sure ain't...
> 
> -KP


Totally disagree. TE3 was loaded with inconsistencies that were cleaned up in TE4. You are just used to TE3 so you are fighting muscle memory not intuitiveness.


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## JoeKustra

krkaufman said:


> _A work-in-progress list of TE4/TE3 pros and cons, based on feedback posted and past discussion threads ...._


A great summary. Might I suggest the one negative for TE3 is the high probability that the software is no longer maintained. Not an official TiVo policy, but the lack of bug fixes in over a year seems to be proof.


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## barnabas1969

Wow, thanks for all the detailed info! I found a video on youtube that compares the two guide styles and I really don't mind either one. TBH, I rarely watch live TV anyway. 

I have 4TB of storage in my Media Center PC, so I just record everything that looks interesting. That's why I plan to connect a 4TB 3.5" drive to the Bolt's internal SATA port. I've read about how to do that here on the forum. Amazon delivered the drive, cables, and enclosure today. My Bolt and minis will arrive tomorrow.

I'm going to keep my HTPC, so I really don't need to transfer files to the Tivo... I can just select my HTPC from the TV's sources menu and watch anything I want. My HTPC has CEC built-in, so it shows up on the sources menu on the TV.


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## compnurd

KevTech said:


> So would HDR on the Bolt be in the list?
> On TE3 Netflix shows are in Ultra HD 4K.
> On TE4 21.9.2.v4 update there is now an HDR option in video setting and Netflix shows are in HDR.
> Or is it just that they updated the apps?
> I read the bolts could always do HDR but up until the 21.9.2.v4 update all shows on Netflix showed they were in Ultra HD 4K but now it is HDR.
> But my TV apps still beat Tivo as Netflix through TV app show in Dolby Vision.


HDR has been available in Netflix and Vudu for quite some time now


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## kpeters59

TonyD79 said:


> Totally disagree. TE3 was loaded with inconsistencies that were cleaned up in TE4. You are just used to TE3 so you are fighting muscle memory not intuitiveness.


I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong...

-KP


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## elorimer

barnabas1969 said:


> I have 4TB of storage in my Media Center PC, so I just record everything that looks interesting. That's why I plan to connect a 4TB 3.5" drive to the Bolt's internal SATA port


you may then be stuck with TE3. Keep the original drive so you can go back.


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## Megamind

Other than the loss of PC -> TiVo transfers, none of the cons are of any importance to me personally. I never saw the advantage of the Live Guide (although I know others certainly do), turned off Suggestions years ago, and never had any reason to use TiVo -> TiVo transfers.

As for the interface, I'm with Tony. There were issues early on but most of those have been smoothed out. Mostly it's just different. Again, I don't spend enough time in the interface to think about it much. Everybody uses their DVRs differently, however. 

Perhaps my biggest nits are that the VOX Remote isn't backlit and the back button is too small and awkward to find easily, despite the concave shape. If I didn't use VOX, I'd probably revert to the Slide Remote full time just for the backlighting. 

With the recent fixes to HDMI-CEC in TE4, that has become a significant + for TE4. I also find the voice assistant feature is also quite useful when working around the house with the TV on. Both are + for me.


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## krkaufman

Megamind said:


> With the recent fixes to HDMI-CEC in TE4, that has become a significant + for TE4.


Is there a thread discussing these fixes, and whether CEC works with TE3?


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## Megamind

krkaufman said:


> Is there a thread discussing these fixes, and whether CEC works with TE3?


I'm not aware of a single thread dedicated to the HDMI-CEC fix that was implemented in *21.9.1.v14*, but the biggest change was to make the HDMI-CEC feature ('Wake with TiVo Button') respect the user's Power Saving settings.* *There was some discussion of the original issue in *TV Pwr no longer puts in standby (21.9.1.v6)*.

My understanding is that HDMI-CEC works exclusively with TE4 on the Bolt and Roamio but not any of the Minis. It is enabled by going to SETTINGS > REMOTE, CABLECARD & DEVICES > REMOTE CONTROL SETUP > Wake with TiVo button > YES. TiVo Support Article


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## dnorth12

My just found and newly frustrating change is the inability to delete a to do recording without having to dig deep into the season pass manager to get to it. GRRRR


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## Megamind

dnorth12 said:


> My just found and newly frustrating change is the inability to delete a to do recording without having to dig deep into the season pass manager to get to it. GRRRR


For an individual recording, I just press the Clear button while in the ToDo List. For a OnePass, I do the same while in the OnePass Manager.


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## dnorth12

Megamind said:


> For an individual recording, I just press the Clear button while in the ToDo List. For a OnePass, I do the same while in the OnePass Manager.


Thank you, that will work. Taking back my GRRRR


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## barnabas1969

Megamind said:


> With the recent fixes to HDMI-CEC in TE4, that has become a significant + for TE4.


I am happy with the CEC implementation. I can just push the Tivo button on the remote, and it turns on the TV & AVR, and selects the correct inputs. One button and done.

My TV is a 2011 Samsung 64" plasma, model # PN64D8000 and my AVR is a Yamaha RX-A2010, if that is helpful to anyone.

On a side note, I like the "peanut" remote. It would be nice if it was backlit though. And even better if it could be used to control components other than the Tivo and the TV/AVR power/volume/input. I've always been a big proponent of having one remote for everything.

I haven't programmed my programmable remote to operate the Tivo yet. I use the same programmable remote for every room in my house. It is discontinued nowadays, but it is infinitely programmable using an open source tool called "Remote Master". I use the Acoustic Research ARRX18G. Ergonomically, I've never found a better remote. The Tivo "peanut" is just as good, ergonomically, but lacks the backlighting of the ARRX18G, and the touchscreen.

When I bought the AR remotes, they were a LOT less expensive than the Harmony. The only feature they lack, when compared to a Harmony, is power state tracking. But if you are careful with the programming, that is not a problem.


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## Megamind

barnabas1969 said:


> I am happy with the CEC implementation. I can just push the TiVo button on the remote, and it turns on the TV & AVR, and selects the correct inputs. One button and done.


When you add cameras, voice assistants, Fire TV and/or Chromecast devices, HDMI-CEC can be quite useful even when the remote is not involved. There were a lot of problems prior to the latest update, the TiVO going into Standby being the most prominent of them. Now it works well for me, with just one exception: with my hardware, pressing any button on the remote will 'unmute' the TV. Annoying, but not a major issue.



barnabas1969 said:


> On a side note, I like the "peanut" remote. It would be nice if it was backlit though. And even better if it could be used to control components other than the Tivo and the TV/AVR power/volume/input. I've always been a big proponent of having one remote for everything.


This is why I preferred the slide remote. Aside from the handy keyboard, it was backlit and a couple of the buttons could 'learn" from other remotes. I still keep my Slide Remote nearby, but generally use the VOX because I like the search feature.


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## barnabas1969

Megamind said:


> When you add cameras, voice assistants, Fire TV and/or Chromecast devices, HDMI-CEC can be quite useful even when the remote is not involved. There were a lot of problems prior to the latest update, the TiVO going into Standby being the most prominent of them. Now it works well for me, with just one exception: with my hardware, pressing any button on the remote will 'unmute' the TV. Annoying, but not a major issue.
> 
> This is why I preferred the slide remote. Aside from the handy keyboard, it was backlit and a couple of the buttons could 'learn" from other remotes. I still keep my Slide Remote nearby, but generally use the VOX because I like the search feature.


My Media Center PC runs Free Open Source Software (FOSS) called Event Ghost (EG).

EG is written in Python, and allows anyone to create "plugins".

With EG, and the many available plugins, it is possible to do practically anything.

I have written two of my own EG plugins.


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## barnabas1969

I thiink that there is a strong possibility for EG and Tivo to coexist.


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## barnabas1969

EG is built around "events".

Events can originate from almost anywhere.

Pressing a button on the Tivo remote can be an "event".

Opening/closing a door can be an "event".

Almost anything can be an "event".


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## barnabas1969

Hmmm. Well, it appears that nobody understands what I am talking about.

I plan to pursue the integration between my new Tivo DVR and Event Ghost.

For example, EG can "do something" when I press the PLAY button.


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## krkaufman

barnabas1969 said:


> Hmmm. Well, it appears that nobody understands what I am talking about.


I expect that many understand what you're saying, but the post(s) didn't seem to require a reply ... aside from being a good topic for another thread.


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## krkaufman

Quoting for future reference...


trip1eX said:


> *downsides* for me are:
> 
> 1. less responsive on a Mini via Roamio Plus. if you quickly delete 5 episodes you'll see only 1 or 2 deleted and the other 3 don't appear to be deleted. Count to 5 and they may delete.
> 
> 2. annoying menu prompts. for example, hit delete on a folder and a menu prompt comes up everytime. so annoying. i just want to delete. the whole reason to use the shortcut key (clear) is to quickly delete something. Not answer a menu prompt on whether i want to delete show, onepass or cancel.
> 
> 3. in the grid guide the up/down arrows page up/down when at the top/bottom of the guide instead of scrolling up/down one more channel. This results in being sometimes annoying to see certain channels side by side like say eSPN 1 and ESPN 2.
> 
> 4. in the guide the movie info is often terribly lacking (even after hitting the info button) and results in additional button presses. But record the show and hit the info button on the same show under My Shows and you are given thorough information displayed front and center.
> 
> 5. can't page/up down in menu prompts. For example, add an extra hour to a sporting event and you have to hit arrow up 5 or 6 times to get back up to the top and complete your task. Before you could just hit page up/down (channel up/down.)
> 
> *positives* are:
> 
> 1. it's got auto commercial skip. Youngest kid loves it it but his couple of shows (like impractical jokers with its 20 episodes per day  ) usually have the option. Personally I rarely get to use it on my shows. Funny thing is the person most likely to skip commercials (read: skips commercials 100% of the time) is the person that rarely sees auto commercial skip. The 2 others still in the household who often watch commercials including my youngest kid mentioned above constantly get auto commercial skip.
> 
> 2. TE4 allows me to watch live tv or recordings while in the menus on my Mini. I like this because I'm often going back into the menus while a show is playing.
> 
> 3. Last I suppose the ease of watching the next show in a group is a positive. It does save a few button presses I guess. ... although I get annoyed by the often premature prompts to do so and by the prompts to delete or keep shows after I exit. And the old way was left arrow out, arrow down and hit play. It was tried and true and worked quick. Now I'm waiting a little bit for prompts. So unsure if this one is a positive or not.


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## caseybea

OK so.... question here. I'm very late to the "TE4" game; only discovered it when I recently installed a new MINI VOX downstairs. (for now... downgraded it and I'm all set with TE3 on it and my bolt....... for now).

One feature I use often is the ability to grab shows from my PyTIVO-setup computer, and watch them on my tivo. So I understand correctly that with TE4... this will be no longer possible?


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## Dan203

caseybea said:


> OK so.... question here. I'm very late to the "TE4" game; only discovered it when I recently installed a new MINI VOX downstairs. (for now... downgraded it and I'm all set with TE3 on it and my bolt....... for now).
> 
> One feature I use often is the ability to grab shows from my PyTIVO-setup computer, and watch them on my tivo. So I understand correctly that with TE4... this will be no longer possible?


Correct. There is no way to transfer from PC to TiVo in TE4. They also removed the ability to transfer TiVo to TiVo, although there is a workaround for that using the online.tivo.com website.


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## tluxon

Dan203 said:


> Correct. There is no way to transfer from PC to TiVo in TE4. They also removed the ability to transfer TiVo to TiVo, although there is a workaround for that using the online.tivo.com website.


Will the online.tivo.com website provide for transferring from a pause point (like at the last 10 minutes of a 6-hour game)?


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## exdishguy

barnabas1969 said:


> I am happy with the CEC implementation. I can just push the Tivo button on the remote, and it turns on the TV & AVR, and selects the correct inputs. One button and done.
> 
> My TV is a 2011 Samsung 64" plasma, model # PN64D8000 and my AVR is a Yamaha RX-A2010, if that is helpful to anyone.
> 
> On a side note, I like the "peanut" remote. It would be nice if it was backlit though. And even better if it could be used to control components other than the Tivo and the TV/AVR power/volume/input. I've always been a big proponent of having one remote for everything.
> 
> I haven't programmed my programmable remote to operate the Tivo yet. I use the same programmable remote for every room in my house. It is discontinued nowadays, but it is infinitely programmable using an open source tool called "Remote Master". I use the Acoustic Research ARRX18G. Ergonomically, I've never found a better remote. The Tivo "peanut" is just as good, ergonomically, but lacks the backlighting of the ARRX18G, and the touchscreen.
> 
> When I bought the AR remotes, they were a LOT less expensive than the Harmony. The only feature they lack, when compared to a Harmony, is power state tracking. But if you are careful with the programming, that is not a problem.


While I liked their TE4 CEC implementation from a "push the Tivo button" to turn on my AVR/TV, etc. all at once, I do not like what they do when muting. If I mute something while using TE3 I can navigate menus, guide, etc. and it remains muted. With TE4 just about any button presses unmutes for some reason (I can't recall what buttons keeps mute on).


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## exdishguy

dnorth12 said:


> My just found and newly frustrating change is the inability to delete a to do recording without having to dig deep into the season pass manager to get to it. GRRRR


+1

Related to this are the number of buttons presses to delete a single recorded show in My Shows. In TE3 I select the show and hit clear. Done. TE4 requires an addition 2-3 button presses if I recall.

It would be interesting to quantify the number of button presses to accomplish the same task in TE3 vs. TE4 for many of the features. I'm no longer running TE4 on any of my boxes so I can't do it.


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## zubinh

I resisted going to TE4 for a long time. I just did it a week ago knowing full well I would get pre roll ads. To be honest, I really like it! I never cared for the live guide or transfers to PC, I love how modern the UI looks and frankly, Auto skip is a big deal. My wife constantly forgets to hit skip during commercials, auto skip will be a nice time saver. I also like how the tuners are now displayed. There are certainly things that can be improved, not hitting left arrow is taking some getting used to and yes there are functions that were done with fewer clicks in TE3 but overall I like it. This weekend's project will be to link my Tivo and Echo dot for Alexa integration. Lastly, when I get the pre-roll ads, I'll just call Tivo to deactivate them.


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## JoeKustra

zubinh said:


> Lastly, when I get the pre-roll ads, I'll just call Tivo to deactivate them.


It's nice to have a choice.


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## lujan

zubinh said:


> ... I also like how the tuners are now displayed. ...


What do you mean "...how the tuners are now displayed."? I haven't noticed anything regarding the tuners so I'm wondering?


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## pfiagra

lujan said:


> What do you mean "...how the tuners are now displayed."? I haven't noticed anything regarding the tuners so I'm wondering?


I'm guessing the *RIGHT* arrow, which toggles the available tuners.


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## zubinh

Correct on TE3 the programs on each tuner were displayed in a list whereas with TE4 a right click brings up the program logos on the right side of the screen.


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## bcoonfield

Do the restrictions on transferring a program from one TiVo to another discussed on this thread apply to VIEWING a show recorded on one TiVo from another one on the same network?. Suppose for example I am on a Bolt, and want to view a program recorded on a Premiere, or a TE3 Roamio, will that work seamlessly as it did when my network was all TE3? What if I am using a Mini, will I be able to view programs recorded on both TE3 and TE4 TiVos on the network?


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## JoeKustra

bcoonfield said:


> Do the restrictions on transferring a program from one TiVo to another discussed on this thread apply to VIEWING a show recorded on one TiVo from another one on the same network?. Suppose for example I am on a Bolt, and want to view a program recorded on a Premiere, or a TE3 Roamio, will that work seamlessly as it did when my network was all TE3? What if I am using a Mini, will I be able to view programs recorded on both TE3 and TE4 TiVos on the network?


It will be the same as if the whole network was TE3 or TE4, with slightly different menu navigation. Maybe not so slightly.


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## Donbadabon

I upgraded from TE4 back to TE3 and don't miss the auto-skip or the guide at all.

I love that I have my TiVo-2 (to do list) and TiVo-4 (search) shortcuts back. I hated it when TE4 changed those classic shortcuts to something else, and then changed again.

I love how I can move in 30 minute increments in the guide. I hated how TE4 would shift the whole page based on blocks of hours.

And of course no pre-rolls, and no TiVo +


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## jmccorm

Loved HDMI-CEC and other inputs taking the screen as needed. It worked great with TE4. I also liked (in general) that the new menus had more pep. They ran fast enough so they were no longer a problem.

Yet at this very moment I'm reverting to TE3. I wasn't getting pre-roll ads (thank God or I might have ragequit) but I was getting the Guide spam that made it hard for my brain to quickly scan a screen at a time while excluding the spam line for a fake channel.

One of the major headaches was in searching for a particular episode across providers:

When I press [SELECT] then "A" on a program to see which of my enabled on-demand service providers had it (Cox Contour, Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, Amazon Prime), almost always the answer was Amazon, Amazon Prime, and that's it. Even a program was available on one of the other providers, it would usually just tell me that Amazon (Prime) had it.

So many times it lies and tells me that an episode is free on Amazon Prime. I go to Amazon Prime (through the TiVo) interface and it is not. When I cared enough to go to it through my Amazon Kindle, it was free. No idea what's going on there.

If I followed that up by going into TiVo's menu, going to Search, and finding that very same program (same episode and title), it WOULD correctly find all the choices across my providers. I don't know why the two different search functions yield different results, but the one in [Select] "A" seems to have issues.

Another major headache was in viewing programs that were recorded and locally stored on the DVR:

The whole bar to the left (starting with All Recordings and ending with Devices) was understated and ended up confusing people at times on why their programs had disappeared but were still there if they searched for them.

What I hated was that some programs were stored in different ways. I wanted everything sorted by record date no matter what. Yet it seems that for some programs I'd have to select the newest item from the bottom of the list of recorded episodes and other items where I'd find that same item at the TOP of the list. It never really made sense.

Voice control was neat but not a game changer.

Anyhow, I'll be staying at TE3 until this TiVo+ absurdity gets sorted out.


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## tommiet

I would guess that most people who never had used TE3 would not care. With over 300 channel, the VOX command is my wife's best friend to find a channel or search for a show. I've had both and I'm fine with TE4. Yeah, the ads sux, but not a show stopper.

Folks still are running windows XP and are happy.... If your happy with staying with the old tech.... go for it! What nags me are the TE3 folks that toss rocks at the TE4 folks.

I've said it before... the TE3 folks need their own forum..... That way they can ignore the TE4 issues.


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## JoeKustra

tommiet said:


> I've said it before... the TE3 folks need their own forum..... That way they can ignore the TE4 issues.


That was suggested when TE4 was released. It went nowhere. Maybe if the TiVo startup screens would have borders with TE3 or TE4 around them, people would know which they were using.


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## tenthplanet

JoeKustra said:


> That was suggested when TE4 was released. It went nowhere. Maybe if the TiVo startup screens would have borders with TE3 or TE4 around them, people would know which they were using.


Can you imagine the meltdowns people would have  A border taking their valuable screen space...Let's do it


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## Willy92

I don't get it,...I've been with Tivo since '99, all the "penny-anny" things that people complain about is crazy to me. 

Look at all the changes that your phone has gone through over the years, or even your car(if you drive newer cars), no more cd players for instance, nobody cares, you just adjust to the times.

As I've said before, I'm fine with TE4.


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## tapokata

I don't find TE4 to be the devil's spawn, or whatever. I have a non-Vox 500GB original Bolt running TE4 on the TV I primarily use. I haven't seen preroll ads yet. I like the automated commercial skip function, and the windows seem sharper and with a bit more zip to them, but that's a very subjective view. The wife has TE3 running on a different non-Vox (upgraded to a 3 TB drive). We didn't move her up, as she was very happy with the TE3 interface and the available apps, is used to it, and didn't want to change. Both Bolts are configured for OTA reception, connecting via ethernet. 

At some point, when the hardware fails or the app support falters (as was the case with our previous series 3 HD units), we will transition over to FireTV- if she has to learn a new interface, I'd rather she get comfortable with the fireTV, especially in that the primary viewing screen she uses has that OS running native. I have a 4 tuner FTV dvr on the network, connected to a 4TB Usb drive.


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## Davelnlr_

krkaufman said:


> *- Pre-roll Ads: *A new differentiator for many is the introduction of pre-roll ads to the TE4 experience; that is, TiVo inserting an Internet-streamed, skippable ad prior to the recorded content that's been selected for playback. At present, TiVo has no plans to bring this "feature" to TE3, which has been in "maintenance mode" (bug fixes only) for nearly 2 years. (see this thread for more info, and copious gnashing of teeth)
> *- Live Guide:* The absence of the Live Guide as a channel guide viewing option, leaving only the Grid Guide, is considered by many to be a showstopper for TE4 adoption.
> *- Suggestions: * The original Thumbs ratings-based Suggestions algorithm has been discarded in TE4, in favor of some alternate algorithm, resulting in less satisfactory results; even the ability to rate programs using the Thumbs buttons has been removed from TE4.




These are the reasons I reverted to TE3. I like the live guide, and make use of thumbs rating suggestions. 
I won't even start on how inappropriate pre-roll ads are.


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## Chuck_IV

Just reverted my Bolt back to TE3. The reason was after screwing with my Netgear router to try and block the preroll ads, the Bolt got a Blocked By Netgear Firewall cookie in it that seemed to only be removable by to a reset/delete everything

So I took the opportunity to downgrade while I was at it. I will say the look and feel does take some getting used to again. But once you start using it again, it all comes back and you don’t miss much. 

The things that make TE3 a keeper are...

- It seems the fast forward to a tick mark works properly every time and doesn’t stop you a few minutes short of the next tick sometimes. 

- After a recording, it doesn’t auto pause other tuners after leaving them, so when you return you aren’t on live tv anymore. 

- NO MORE PREROLL ADS or having to reboot to clear the ads in the guide(via PiHole).

- I’m hoping this clears up the need to reboot my tuning adapter as often as I’ve had to on TE4, which is about weekly these days. It was never this bad on TE3. 

- I actually prefer the top to bottom list method of showing things vs the side scroller bars they use on TE4. 

I really wish TE3 still had the color in it vs the lame silver logos and other things. I was at my niece’s place over the holidays and they have TiVo via Suddenlink, which still has the color in it instead of all silver and it looks so much better IMO. 

TiVo’s has really lost its way, starting with the silver logo/everything and then TE4 IMO. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shwru980r

I like the stability of TE3 because it's not being updated.


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## Chuck_IV

So one other thing I like with TE3 vs TE4 which I haven’t seen anyone else mention(it may not be something that annoyed other like it did me)...

When viewing the guide and you use the arrow keys to move one line up/down from what is currently visible, the entire guide would do a full new page scroll and if say you were scrolling up, you would then be at the bottom of the screen and vice verse. This was actually annoying to me and I’d have to relocate where I was at on the screen. 

With TE3, it simply moves the guide up or down one line. If you want to move a full page, you can still use the channel up/down(like on TE4).

Now that I have all my TiVo’s back to TE3, it’s pretty nice. Luckily we really never used auto skip or VOX(we use universal remotes) so we aren’t missing any real features and we gained some back. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lujan

^^^
It's probably not a big issue for most people but I do miss that with TE3 you could see 3 hours at a time in 1 hour increments of the guide. TE4 seems to have a weird way of showing the guide that is not nearly as good as the guide on TE3.


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## V7Goose

Chuck_IV said:


> When viewing the guide and you use the arrow keys to move one line up/down from what is currently visible, the entire guide would do a full new page scroll and if say you were scrolling up, you would then be at the bottom of the screen and vice verse. This was actually annoying to me and I'd have to relocate where I was at on the screen.
> 
> With TE3, it simply moves the guide up or down one line. If you want to move a full page, you can still use the channel up/down(like on TE4).


Yes, this was mentioned a few time early on with this HORRIBLE TE4 software, but has not generated much attention since then. To me, it is one of the REALLY bad UI features that makes trying to use TE4 a miserable experience. I often bring up the guide and want to configure the display with a specific channel at the top so that I can see all of the other channels near it on the same screen. With HORRIBLE TE4, the only way to do this is go back to live TV, tune to the channel I want on the top of the Guide display, and then bring up guide. I specifically brought this up to TiVo engineers during some testing, and I was basically told "Tough, that's the way we do it now".

Even worse is the way HORRIBLE TE4 behaves when you bring up the MY SHOWS list that they finally gave us back after suffering for a year of comic-book panels. Now when you see a program you want down in the middle of the MY SHOWS list and try to move down to it easily by just holding down the arrow button, after the 4th show on the list, it just pages the entire list so you cannot get to the show you wanted at all without stopping, paging back, and slowly moving the cursor focus one program at a time until you finally get there without the asinine software changing pages on you! Just another one of the many things that makes TE4 HORRIBLE to me.

There are also HORRIBLE changes to the way TE4 uses tuners: With TE3, you can set all your tuners to specific channels so you can jump between them while preserving the buffers, then just use one tuner to scroll or surf channels without changing all the rest. NOT SO with HORRIBLE TE4! With that nasty software, if you try to use just one tuner to surf while leaving the others alone, it will 'almost' randomly switch tuners on you and start changing channels on all the other tuners instead of leaving them where you wanted them left. Once again, the TiVo engineers told me 'That's the way we want it to operate now, so shut up and go away.' It is not really random, but the effect is the same on the user - a HORRIBLE EXPERIENCE.

If I choose to leave a tuner set on a particular show or channel and deliberately change to a different tuner, then the one I chose to leave set SHOULD NEVER CHANGE BEHIND MY BACK unless TiVo needs it for a scheduled recording. That is implied by the very fact that we have a button to jump between tuners instead of just having to let the box choose for us which tuner to use. That is a pretty simple concept, but Bad_Rovi just can't seem to understand what a good user "experience" should be.


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## danxmanly

Been awhile since I’ve been on these forums... jumped back in to see how their new streaming 4K device would interface with our existing setups...and appears it doesn’t.. yet. 

Decided to pursue this thread as I’m still hanging on to TE3 on my Roamio ( 6tb drive upgrade ), and vox units... and although I’m tempted to try TE4, it’s not worth it as I would lose all my recordings if I rolled back. Can’t off load any shows being as Spectrum sets that cc flag on every thing.... 

Guess if the 4K streaming device eventually would tie into all are existing hardware, but forced me to upgrade I’d do it...but just not seeing enough people in “love” with TE4 to try it now.


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## Mikeguy

danxmanly said:


> Guess if the 4K streaming device eventually would tie into all are existing hardware, but forced me to upgrade I'd do it...but just not seeing enough people in "love" with TE4 to try it now.


Well, TE4 is _pretty_ . . . .


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## Chuck_IV

danxmanly said:


> Been awhile since I've been on these forums... jumped back in to see how their new streaming 4K device would interface with our existing setups...and appears it doesn't.. yet.
> 
> Decided to pursue this thread as I'm still hanging on to TE3 on my Roamio ( 6tb drive upgrade ), and vox units... and although I'm tempted to try TE4, it's not worth it as I would lose all my recordings if I rolled back. Can't off load any shows being as Spectrum sets that cc flag on every thing....
> 
> Guess if the 4K streaming device eventually would tie into all are existing hardware, but forced me to upgrade I'd do it...but just not seeing enough people in "love" with TE4 to try it now.


Do you have another TiVo? If so, move the recordings to the other TiVo. Between doing that and just deleting things that's we just felt we wouldn't watch anyway, I was able to downgrade.

It must be a regional thing with Spectrum. I have Spectrum and yes some key channels are copy protected but not a ton.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lhvetinari

Chuck_IV said:


> Do you have another TiVo? If so, move the recordings to the other TiVo. Between doing that and just deleting things that's we just felt we wouldn't watch anyway, I was able to downgrade.
> 
> It must be a regional thing with Spectrum. I have Spectrum and yes some key channels are copy protected but not a ton.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you can't offload (transfer), you can't move them between TiVos either. Spectrum is a conglomeration of separate networks - the CCI byte abuse (and that's what it is, abuse) is endemic in former TWC and BHN systems, particularly.


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## kflinch

I have the base Roamio, OTA/Cable, 4 tuner model. I tried TE4 for about 2 days. While the TE4 UI is visually more modern looking, I missed the ability to use kmttg to transfer recordings from the Tivo to a networked PC. I also missed the ability to stream videos stored on a networked PC to the Tivo via Streambaby. These are deal breakers for me. I also noticed the functionality of some the buttons on the remote changed. For example the Zoom button no longer changed the aspect ratio (Zoom didn't zoom). I had to perform research and re-learn how to use the remote.


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## Chuck_IV

kflinch said:


> I have the base Roamio, OTA/Cable, 4 tuner model. I tried TE4 for about 2 days. While the TE4 UI is visually more modern looking, I missed the ability to use kmttg to transfer recordings from the Tivo to a networked PC. I also missed the ability to stream videos stored on a networked PC to the Tivo via Streambaby. These are deal breakers for me. I also noticed the functionality of some the buttons on the remote changed. For example the Zoom button no longer changed the aspect ratio (Zoom didn't zoom). I had to perform research and re-learn how to use the remote.


I do see your other points but when I was on TE4, I never had any issues using kmttg to transfer from the TiVo to the PC. Going the opposite direction(PC to TiVo) was the issue.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Digital Man

Chuck_IV said:


> I do see your other points but when I was on TE4, I never had any issues using kmttg to transfer from the TiVo to the PC. Going the opposite direction(PC to TiVo) was the issue.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OK, so does kmttg work with TE4 or not? My Bolt+ just died so I've already lost all my recordings. When I get the replacement is the time I'll need to decide which software to run. Support for kmttg is essential for me so I hopefully can avoid losing all my recordings again.


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## bobfrank

Digital Man said:


> OK, so does kmttg work with TE4 or not? My Bolt+ just died so I've already lost all my recordings. When I get the replacement is the time I'll need to decide which software to run. Support for kmttg is essential for me so I hopefully can avoid losing all my recordings again.


As I understand it you can download from the Tivo to your PC using KMTTG or pyTivo. With TE4 you can't upload from your PC to the Tivo with anything currently available.


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## SlammedNiss

Read thru the thread and didn't see anything about Tivo Desktop software and compatibility with TE4. Would I still be able to offload recordings from a TE4 Tivo Bolt OTA to my PC like I can currently with my TE3 Roamio?


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## lhvetinari

SlammedNiss said:


> Read thru the thread and didn't see anything about Tivo Desktop software and compatibility with TE4. Would I still be able to offload recordings from a TE4 Tivo Bolt OTA to my PC like I can currently with my TE3 Roamio?


Yes, but you can't put them back on the TiVo again (unless you transcode to MP4 and use Plex like I do for my movie collection)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## krkaufman

lhvetinari said:


> Yes, but you can't put them back on the TiVo again (unless you transcode to MP4 and use Plex like I do for my movie collection)


Just to be clear, PLEX doesn't put the recordings back on the TiVo, just makes them available for streaming back to the TiVo, a critical distinction for many users.


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## lhvetinari

krkaufman said:


> Just to be clear, PLEX doesn't put the recordings back on the TiVo, just makes them available for streaming back to the TiVo, a critical distinction for many users.


True, there's still no way to actually "transfer" back to the TiVo natively, unless you do a 3 way shift with a TE3 unit as an intermediary (which can be a mighty pain in the A--)


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## mrfixit454

Thanks for all the info.. I'm kind of bummed. Should have read here first. I have an OTA premier and OTA Roamio and just ordered an OTA Bolt with the great deals they have. I move some shows from the Roamio to PC and back using desktop or PiTivo, (Which ever I can get to work) and transfer shows between the 2 units. Sounds like its a limited or no option for the Bolt OTA. We do watch shows from tivos in the other rooms which is what we really like and the transferring shows from/to PC is not a real show stopper. I need to read this all again  as its a little confusing. I installed a Tivo mini 3 or 4 months ago in the "Kid Shed" that downgraded it said to work with my Roamio. Didn't really know what that meant at the time but I do now. When the bolt comes, I want to move the bedroom premiere to the Kid Shed and Mini to the garage.


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## JoeKustra

I use Online: http://online.tivo.com/start/guide where I can move programs between TE3 and TE4 boxes.


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## pfiagra

mrfixit454 said:


> Thanks for all the info.. I'm kind of bummed. Should have read here first. I have an OTA premier and OTA Roamio and just ordered an OTA Bolt with the great deals they have. I move some shows from the Roamio to PC and back using desktop or PiTivo, (Which ever I can get to work) and transfer shows between the 2 units. Sounds like its a limited or no option for the Bolt OTA. We do watch shows from tivos in the other rooms which is what we really like and the transferring shows from/to PC is not a real show stopper. I need to read this all again  as its a little confusing. I installed a Tivo mini 3 or 4 months ago in the "Kid Shed" that downgraded it said to work with my Roamio. Didn't really know what that meant at the time but I do now. When the bolt comes, I want to move the bedroom premiere to the Kid Shed and Mini to the garage.


As JoeKustra noted, transfers between DVRs can be done via TiVo Online, regardless of the software (TE3 or TE4) being run on either DVR.

However, why do you feel the need to transfer the shows between DVRs when a show can just be streamed directly off the other DVR?


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## mrfixit454

Thanks, that seems acceptable. I should have clarified a little better. My Roamio was filling up. I could not get Tivo desktop to work anymore to send recording back to the tivo from PC. Because if this, I was putting them on the premiere so I could install a larger drive in the roamio. I still need to do this and I have a 3T drive for the Roamio. I ended up trying PiTivo and that works fine and is much faster on transfers. So.. I like to still have options even if I dot't use it all the time. Last time I copied and expanded a drive was on a Directivo years ago and have not researched or tried this on the Premiere or Roamio.

Will I still be able to stream recordings between, all 3 tivos?

Thanks again.


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## Mikeguy

mrfixit454 said:


> Thanks for all the info.. I'm kind of bummed. Should have read here first. I have an OTA premier and OTA Roamio and just ordered an OTA Bolt with the great deals they have. I move some shows from the Roamio to PC and back using desktop or PiTivo, (Which ever I can get to work) and transfer shows between the 2 units. Sounds like its a limited or no option for the Bolt OTA. We do watch shows from tivos in the other rooms which is what we really like and the transferring shows from/to PC is not a real show stopper. I need to read this all again  as its a little confusing. I installed a Tivo mini 3 or 4 months ago in the "Kid Shed" that downgraded it said to work with my Roamio. Didn't really know what that meant at the time but I do now. When the bolt comes, I want to move the bedroom premiere to the Kid Shed and Mini to the garage.


Just to mention it: you could cancel the Bolt OTA box purchase (or refuse it/return it when it comes) and order from the sale (still on) the Bolt OTA/cable-capable box for $100 more (with Lifetime), if having TE3 on the box is important to you.


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## mrfixit454

Thank you for the info. I have a few more hours to think abot it. Sale ends tonight


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## HerronScott

mrfixit454 said:


> Will I still be able to stream recordings between, all 3 tivos?


Yes.

Scott


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## mrfixit454

Scott and everyone, thank you. In regards to TE4 , my in-laws wanted to cord cut so I talked them into Tivo bolt OTA. I installed it last weekend and got to experience TE4. It is way different and takes some getting used to I imagine, didn't really like it at first try. With that said, I returned my Tivo Bolt OTA and got the end of the sale on the Tivo bolt 500G Vox for Cable/OTA to be able to try TE4 and go back to 3 if need be. I realize I will lose recordings etc. by doing this so I might not record at first or just dump the shows. 

What I did not realize is the Bolts don't have the A/V out and only Audio out. I have a few Mini's in my home but pass the main signal to other areas that are within ear shot of the Living room like our Landry room and kitchen. Mini's don't work here because of the lag. I am researching splitting HDMI out.... one to my HDMI receiver and one to RCA (Yellow, Red/white.... composite) for my home and HDMI to Coax for my in-laws. 

Usually I research these things more clearly before I buy but the sale was really good this time and I did not have much time to react. 

Thanks again for the help,
Ramon


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## kpeters59

TE4 Plus+ 

Time padding 'rolls' from 3 Hours back around to 1 minute (And vice versa). Nice to know; hard to remember.

TE4 Minus- 

You can't pad a currently recording show? LAME!

-KP


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## mrfixit454

Minus - TE3.. On my Roamio, If I turn om the TV into a 30 minute show at like 25 minutes, I can't record that segment.


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## kpeters59

What?

Are you putting your TiVo in to Sleep Mode?

Plenty of people around here (and some Bots) will tell you that's not recommended.

I come home at unexpected times regularly and will go in to Manual Recording and record a show that's an hour old...

-KP


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## mrfixit454

TV.. Television, Tivo stays on all the time. I was going to say tune to a channel but that implies the beginning of a buffer.


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## Rose4uKY

Megamind said:


> When you add cameras, voice assistants, Fire TV and/or Chromecast devices, HDMI-CEC can be quite useful even when the remote is not involved. There were a lot of problems prior to the latest update, the TiVO going into Standby being the most prominent of them. Now it works well for me, with just one exception: with my hardware, pressing any button on the remote will 'unmute' the TV. Annoying, but not a major issue.
> 
> This is why I preferred the slide remote. Aside from the handy keyboard, it was backlit and a couple of the buttons could 'learn" from other remotes. I still keep my Slide Remote nearby, but generally use the VOX because I like the search feature.


I want a backlit remote and just ordered our TiVo Bolt yesterday. I was told to get the Lux that it's the same as the Vox but backlit. I like having an extra remote anyway and thought about getting the light up one for my husband. Does anyone know Is it the same? I can get an extra regular box remote on Amazon for $27 They light up one is like $20 more. Is it worth it? Anyone have it?


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## teeitup

Rose4uKY said:


> I want a backlit remote and just ordered our TiVo Bolt yesterday. I was told to get the Lux that it's the same as the Vox but backlit. I like having an extra remote anyway and thought about getting the light up one for my husband. Does anyone know Is it the same? I can get an extra regular box remote on Amazon for $27 They light up one is like $20 more. Is it worth it? Anyone have it?


I have the Lux remote and love it. Buttons are well lit and they automatically light up when you pick up the remote in low light. I also have the TiVo Slide Pro backlit remote and like the Lux better.


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## Rose4uKY

teeitup said:


> I have the Lux remote and love it. Buttons are well lit and they automatically light up when you pick up the remote in low light. I also have the TiVo Slide Pro backlit remote and like the Lux better.


Thank You! Am ordering it now from Amazon. I used to have a Tivo slide backlit I think it broke. But I am still confused on the IR/RF thing. Tivo said both will be able to do RF just not at the same time. She said if the regular remote is set to RF and I put it up then the Lux remote will do RF but I asked if we needed to pair and unpair every time to use RF cause I read that about the Lux on Amazon unpairing and repairing I don't really know but Tivo said you can hit Tivo C or Tivo D to change and that they both can be in RF mode but only using one at a time. Well yeah why would we both be using together? But anyway I wasn't sure cause we both like being in RF mode but I will be using my remote when I am home by myself and same with him. But Ok Thanks Getting Lux remote now


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## Mikeguy

Rose4uKY said:


> Thank You! Am ordering it now from Amazon. I used to have a Tivo slide backlit I think it broke. But I am still confused on the IR/RF thing. Tivo said both will be able to do RF just not at the same time. She said if the regular remote is set to RF and I put it up then the Lux remote will do RF but I asked if we needed to pair and unpair every time to use RF cause I read that about the Lux on Amazon unpairing and repairing I don't really know but Tivo said you can hit Tivo C or Tivo D to change and that they both can be in RF mode but only using one at a time. Well yeah why would we both be using together? But anyway I wasn't sure cause we both like being in RF mode but I will be using my remote when I am home by myself and same with him. But Ok Thanks Getting Lux remote now


Once you are paired, the setting should stick and you should not have to pair and unpair. You also should be able to have more than one remote set. The only time I have had my Slide Pro or original remotes move from RF (which I have them set at) to IR has been when my batteries were running down and low (this or a similar such circumstance may be what people at Amazon are taking about).*

* This all is with Slide Pro and original Roamio/Bolt remotes--I assume that it also will apply to original Edge and Lux remotes.


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## Rose4uKY

Mikeguy said:


> Once you are paired, the setting should stick and you should not have to pair and unpair. You also should be able to have more than one remote set. The only time I have had my Slide Pro or original remotes move from RF (which I have them set at) to IR has been when my batteries were running down and low (this or a similar such circumstance may be what people at Amazon are taking about).*
> 
> * This all is with Slide Pro and original Roamio/Bolt remotes--I assume that it also will apply to original Edge and Lux remotes.


Thank you very much for your reply! That's all I've been wanting to know was that they both can be set to RF using one or the other at different times. And when he's not home I'll probably use the light up one.

But I remember reading here a long time ago about people not liking user experience 4 telling people not to update. Which we have a Romeo plus so I don't even know if it was an option for us to get but I just remember no one liked it in the beginning. And we have TiVo experience 3 now and tivo said we're going to get the new 4. Do people still not like it? He said if you downgrade to three then you won't get all the remote features? I saw a couple YouTube videos I'm going to watch at work on dinner break shortly. But I don't really want to downgrade if it comes with 4 and that's what we're supposed to use with our remote and a couple people really like the voice feature I'm excited about that just to try it.

But I think since we have a 4K TV it was worth the upgrade to just the bolt because of the price. I just usually like to have the latest and be up to date but we had our Roamio plus since 2013 so I'm sure we'll have this one for a long while. Plus we did the lifetime on this one cuz it was $300 off. An specwise we still have six tuners and a terabyte so I'm fine with that. But thanks for responding


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## Mikeguy

Rose4uKY said:


> Thank you very much for your reply! That's all I've been wanting to know was they both can be set to RF using one or the other at different times. And when he's not home I'll probably use the light up one.
> 
> But I remember reading here a long time ago about people not liking user experience for telling people not to update. Which we have a Romeo plus so I don't even know if it was an option for us to get but I just remember no one liked it in the beginning. And we have TiVo experience 3 now antivo said we're going to get the new 4. Do people still not like it? He said if you downgrade to three then you won't get all the remote features? I saw a couple YouTube videos I'm going to watch it work on dinner break shortly. But I don't really want to downgrade if it comes with four and that's what we're supposed to use with our remote and a couple people really like the voice feature I'm excited about that just to try it.
> 
> But I think since we have a 4K TV it was worth the upgrade to just the bolt because of the price. I just usually like to have the latest and be up to date but we had our Roamio plus since 2013 so I'm sure we'll have this one for a while. Plus we did the lifetime on this one cuz it was $300 off. In specwise we still have six tuners and a terabyte so I'm fine with that. But thanks for responding


TE4 has improved since it first came out; some people like it, other people prefer the earlier user interface, TE3. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But you can try TE4 out and see what you think. (You also can read up on the comparisons between TE4 and TE3 here.)

I didn't see which model of Bolt box you are getting. Note that the specifically-denominated Bolt OTA box (as vs. the other Bolt box models) can't be sidegraded back to the TE3 user interface. (Nor can the new Edge boxes.)

I'm not aware that the choice between TE3 and TE4 affects the remote, _apart from_: the TiVo voice feature that works under TE4 does not work under TE3, and the voice button on the voice remotes does not work under TE3, for the voice feature (instead, it will prompt you to install the TE4 user interface on your TiVo box--but you can decline).*

As to multiple remotes: I have both an original remote and a Slide Pro remote set up for my TE3 Bolt box (I keep the original remote on top of the Bolt box, and use the Slide Pro remote for most use where I sit)--both are RF and there is no issue whatsoever in using both.

One last thing: as you may have read about, the TE4 user interface comes with "pre-roll ads" that TiVo plays right before the first playback of a recorded show (but you can hit a button to skip the ad); the TiVo Guide also gets a line item listing for TiVo's free TiVo+ channel. These ads bother some people (and the pre-roll ads sometimes don't work well and/or can stall the TiVo box); other people don't care. If you stay with TE4 but don't like the ads, you can speak with TiVo customer support and ask them to turn off the pre-roll ads for your TiVo boxes, and they will do so (the TiVo+ Guide entry can't be turned off, however). The customer support "script" sometimes requires you to make the request a couple of times in your call--just be persistent when the rep. tells you that you may like the ads or otherwise can skip them, and repeat your request, and TiVo will honor it (although, if a large software release comes out, the "turn-off-ads" setting may get lost, and so you may need to speak with TiVo again).

Enjoy your new toys!  A new TiVo box and remote is fun.

* Note: I don't have a Lux remote myself and so can't speak from personal experience--but I don't recall seeing here other Lux remote limitations.


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## teeitup

Rose4uKY said:


> Thank You! Am ordering it now from Amazon. I used to have a Tivo slide backlit I think it broke. But I am still confused on the IR/RF thing. Tivo said both will be able to do RF just not at the same time. She said if the regular remote is set to RF and I put it up then the Lux remote will do RF but I asked if we needed to pair and unpair every time to use RF cause I read that about the Lux on Amazon unpairing and repairing I don't really know but Tivo said you can hit Tivo C or Tivo D to change and that they both can be in RF mode but only using one at a time. Well yeah why would we both be using together? But anyway I wasn't sure cause we both like being in RF mode but I will be using my remote when I am home by myself and same with him. But Ok Thanks Getting Lux remote now


You will love the Lux remote. I have three remotes all paired RF to my TiVo Bolt without any issues. You can use them at the same time if you wanted. Even pressing the remote finder button on the back of the Bolt will cause all three remotes to chime.


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## Rose4uKY

teeitup said:


> You will love the Lux remote. I have three remotes all paired RF to my TiVo Bolt without any issues. You can use them at the same time if you wanted. Even pressing the remote finder button on the back of the Bolt will cause all three remotes to chime.


Thanks! I have it in my Amazon Cart my husband really wants the light up one. I may eventually get me one too and just save the one that comes with the Bolt for a spare. Amazon you can get a 3 year warranty on the remote through Asurion for 5.99 is it worth it? Can't wait to get out Tivo. You have 3 remotes all paired to your Bolt RF? Tivo said only one can be used in RF at a time but they can both be in RF mode just put one up when using the other which I am glad about that. She mentioned Tivo C and Tivo D to switch back and forth. Remote finder is cool too!


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## Rose4uKY

Mikeguy said:


> TE4 has improved since it first came out; some people like it, other people prefer the earlier user interface, TE3. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. But you can try TE4 out and see what you think. (You also can read up on the comparisons between TE4 and TE3 here.)
> 
> I didn't see which model of Bolt box you are getting. Note that the specifically-denominated Bolt OTA box (as vs. the other Bolt box models) can't be sidegraded back to the TE3 user interface. (Nor can the new Edge boxes.)
> 
> I'm not aware that the choice between TE3 and TE4 affects the remote, _apart from_: the TiVo voice feature that works under TE4 does not work under TE3, and the voice button on the voice remotes does not work under TE3, for the voice feature (instead, it will prompt you to install the TE4 user interface on your TiVo box--but you can decline).*
> 
> As to multiple remotes: I have both an original remote and a Slide Pro remote set up for my TE3 Bolt box (I keep the original remote on top of the Bolt box, and use the Slide Pro remote for most use where I sit)--both are RF and there is no issue whatsoever in using both.
> 
> One last thing: as you may have read about, the TE4 user interface comes with "pre-roll ads" that TiVo plays right before the first playback of a recorded show (but you can hit a button to skip the ad); the TiVo Guide also gets a line item listing for TiVo's free TiVo+ channel. These ads bother some people (and the pre-roll ads sometimes don't work well and/or can stall the TiVo box); other people don't care. If you stay with TE4 but don't like the ads, you can speak with TiVo customer support and ask them to turn off the pre-roll ads for your TiVo boxes, and they will do so (the TiVo+ Guide entry can't be turned off, however). The customer support "script" sometimes requires you to make the request a couple of times in your call--just be persistent when the rep. tells you that you may like the ads or otherwise can skip them, and repeat your request, and TiVo will honor it (although, if a large software release comes out, the "turn-off-ads" setting may get lost, and so you may need to speak with TiVo again).
> 
> Enjoy your new toys! u A new TiVo box and remote is fun.
> 
> * Note: I don't have a Lux remote myself and so can't speak from personal experience--but I don't recall seeing here other Lux remote limitations.


Thanks for the reply I am so excited now and can't wait to get our Bolt. We are getting the cable version and it's the same as our Roamio Plus 1TB 6 tuner. I wanted that part to at least be the same. My husband said under specs he saw Dolby vision for this one I know I saw Dolby Atmos under specs for this one but Tivo said no only for The Edge and I told them there website was wrong. But we have a nice Nakamichi 9.2 soundbar and a 4K Vizio Smart TV and a Roku Ultra 4K we use now for Netflix and Prime out 2 main ones we use. I googled about our TV and it and it says it supports Dolby Vision but we are getting the Bolt for the price we got it for $199 and Lifetime for $249 monthly was 9.99 and I am paying 14.99 now but we did the Lifetime. I think we got a good deal and I usually want the latest but I have said this already we've had our Roamio since 2013 and plan on having this one for a long time too. Mainly getting it cause we have 4K TV now and the voice part which my husband doesn't care about but I think it sounds cool especially after seeing it on the You Tube video. Wanted the Bolt back when we got out TV before but only doing it now cause of the good deal.

I didn't realize we would have ads. I don't think we have those now and yes I will call and have them turn them off and I hope they do. We watched a you tube video about TE4 and I don't really want to downgrade. It looks nice and I am excited to try something new. And I want to use the voice. I'm sure we'll get used to it. It talked about what the remote arrow buttons do. Another question Tivo themselves told me that the Thumbs up and Thumbs down don't rate shows anymore that it does something else. We like to rate shows and my husband keeps suggestions on. He usually deletes most of it but keeps some. Can you still rate shows if so how do you do it now? It doesn't just add stuff itself based on what you watch does it? Anyway I think that's all my questions for now. Our Bolt should be here Fri or Sat and I know we have to keep our old one hooked up too so we can transfer our shows. Hoping someone will buy our Roamio.


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## Mikeguy

Rose4uKY said:


> Another question Tivo themselves told me that the Thumbs up and Thumbs down don't rate shows anymore that it does something else. We like to rate shows and my husband keeps suggestions on. He usually deletes most of it but keeps some. Can you still rate shows if so how do you do it now? It doesn't just add stuff itself based on what you watch does it?


It's a great deal on a Bolt box--enjoy the new box (and remote)!

Yeah, Suggestions was screwed up on TE4 and this never was fixed (despite TiVo acknowledging the issue and saying that it would be handled). TiVo moved to an "intelligent" system in which the system would use AI to predict shows for you--no thumbs used. And most people find, it just doesn't work. Try it for yourselves and see--and be prepared to turn Suggestions off.  (Fortunately, Suggestions wasn't fooled around with under TE3, where it still works.)


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## Rose4uKY

Mikeguy said:


> It's a great deal on a Bolt box--enjoy the new box (and remote)!
> 
> Yeah, Suggestions was screwed up on TE4 and this never was fixed (despite TiVo acknowledging the issue and saying that it would be handled). TiVo moved to an "intelligent" system in which the system would use AI to predict shows for you--no thumbs used. And most people find, it just doesn't work. Try it for yourselves and see--and be prepared to turn Suggestions off.  (Fortunately, Suggestions wasn't fooled around with under TE3, where it still works.)


Oh really so we won't like suggestions great! I didn't thumb s up and down much husband did if we got to many of something he didn't like. We didn't get a lot of suggestions I don't think but he would come home at night and before we watched a show he would go through the list and delete most of it anyway. So he may not care about it. But yes we can try it for a bit and see how it does! All we have to do is delete stuff. And if he doesn't like it he can turn it off. I just got notice my Bolt has shipped it says 4-6 business days he said Fri or Sat but the tracking number in my email isn't correct for Fed-Ex which is who they said they used. I wanted UPS cause they have our garage code and put it inside the garage.


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## pfiagra

Rose4uKY said:


> Oh really so we won't like suggestions great! I didn't thumb s up and down much husband did if we got to many of something he didn't like. We didn't get a lot of suggestions I don't think but he would come home at night and before we watched a show he would go through the list and delete most of it anyway. So he may not care about it. But yes we can try it for a bit and see how it does! All we have to do is delete stuff. And if he doesn't like it he can turn it off. I just got notice my Bolt has shipped it says 4-6 business days he said Fri or Sat but the tracking number in my email isn't correct for Fed-Ex which is who they said they used. I wanted UPS cause they have our garage code and put it inside the garage.


I recommend to just turn off suggestions from the get go.


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## Rose4uKY

pfiagra said:


> I recommend to just turn off suggestions from the get go.


Ok thanks! I'll tell my husband.


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## bobfrank

Rose4uKY said:


> Ok thanks! I'll tell my husband.


You may not know that suggestions do not interfere with any hard drive space you might need for scheduled recordings. Suggestions are automatically deleted if space is needed for scheduled recordings.


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## pfiagra

bobfrank said:


> You may not know that suggestions do not interfere with any hard drive space you might need for scheduled recordings. Suggestions are automatically deleted if space is needed for scheduled recordings.


correct, but the bad suggestions algorithm on TE4 clutters up and can overwhelm your shows list


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## bobfrank

pfiagra said:


> correct, but the bad suggestions algorithm on TE4 clutters up and can overwhelm your shows list


It only can overwhelm the suggestions list, no effect on scheduled recordings. But there still might be some suggestions that would be of interest.
To keep this post on topic, this is one minor reason I stay with TE3.


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## Rose4uKY

bobfrank said:


> You may not know that suggestions do not interfere with any hard drive space you might need for scheduled recordings. Suggestions are automatically deleted if space is needed for scheduled recordings.


I knew suggestions got deleted first. I mean they're still in a suggestion's folder aren't they? I guess it doesn't matter either way my husband said he'd like to leave it on just to see how it works now.


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## bareyb

Thinking of getting a TiVo Mini and as I understand it you have to upgrade to TE4 UI to make it work. Is it true once you upgrade a TiVo Box to TE4 that you can't go back?


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## JoeKustra

see:
How to Rollback Hydra from Roamio and Mini's v1 | TiVoCommunity Forum


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## dianebrat

bareyb said:


> Thinking of getting a TiVo Mini and as I understand it you have to upgrade to TE4 UI to make it work. Is it true once you upgrade a TiVo Box to TE4 that you can't go back?


That is in no way true, the mini will connect to a TE3 or TE4 unit and match the host OS.

The only time TE4 is required is to use the voice command functionality, but even a 4K mini Vox will connect to a TE3 box and downgrade itself, what makes you think TE4 is required?


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## bareyb

dianebrat said:


> That is in no way true, the mini will connect to a TE3 or TE4 unit and match the host OS.


Thanks. Just got the news from TiVo CS. Very relieved to hear it. Is the interface on the Mini pretty similar to what I see on the TiVo box?


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## krkaufman

bareyb said:


> Is the interface on the Mini pretty similar to what I see on the TiVo box?


It will be nearly identical. Lacks access to multiple tuners when LiveTV channel surfing, and omits some management functions only available at the host DVR.


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## krkaufman

dianebrat said:


> The only time TE4 is required is to use the voice command functionality,


Also auto-skip. And a few other features mentioned in post #2 - though that post could use an update, I'm certain.


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## dianebrat

krkaufman said:


> Also auto-skip. And a few other features mentioned in post #2 - though that post could use an update, I'm certain.


*shrug* considering how few of the shows I record have Skip available it's not like I would ever even notice.


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## krkaufman

dianebrat said:


> *shrug* considering how few of the shows I record have Skip available it's not like I would ever even notice.


We're running TE3-only, so ...


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## dianebrat

krkaufman said:


> We're running TE3-only, so ...


yes, but doesn't auto-skip use the same skip data that manual skip uses? just, well, automatically


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## krkaufman

dianebrat said:


> yes, but doesn't auto-skip use the same skip data that manual skip uses? just, well, automatically


Sure, but I don't see how that's relevant when trying to inform on the nuances of the TE4 interface.


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## Albert

I have a Roamio and TE4 was a lot of headaches with the sluggishness, bugs, crashes, and ads. You'd think they would have stabilized it by now but I'm thinking they just don't care about the Roamios. After using TE4 for a few months, going back to TE3 was a breath of fresh air, like getting a new TiVo.

It's not the interface/GUI that's the issue, its the sluggishness, bugs, crashes, and ads. And the commercial auto-skip was a good feature, when it worked, but it almost never did for me.


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## dianebrat

krkaufman said:


> Sure, but I don't see how that's relevant when trying to inform on the nuances of the TE4 interface.


I'm just saying for those that view TE4's auto-skip as a benefit, if you're in a scenario like I am where my shows rarely have skip data, that benefit is lost.


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## tech234a

krkaufman said:


> _A work-in-progress list of TE4/TE3 pros and cons, based on feedback posted and past discussion threads ...._
> 
> *TE4/Hydra (21.*)*
> 
> *~ Pre-roll Ads: *A new differentiator for many is the introduction of pre-roll ads to the TE4 experience; that is, TiVo inserting an Internet-streamed, skippable ad prior to the recorded content that's been selected for playback. At present, TiVo has no plans to bring this "feature" to TE3, which has been in "maintenance mode" (bug fixes only) for nearly 2 years; further, a TE4 customer can contact TiVo Support to have the ads disabled for their account once they have begun airing, providing a workaround short of rolling back to TE3. (see this thread for more info, copious gnashing of teeth and success reports of the ads being disabled)
> *- Live Guide:* The absence of the Live Guide as a channel guide viewing option, leaving only the Grid Guide, is considered by many to be a showstopper for TE4 adoption.
> *- Suggestions: * The original Thumbs ratings-based Suggestions algorithm has been discarded in TE4, in favor of some alternate algorithm, resulting in less satisfactory results; even the ability to rate programs using the Thumbs buttons has been removed from TE4.
> *- TiVo-to-TiVo transfers (MRV), Part 1:* The built-in MRV transfer controls have been removed from the TE4 UI, requiring the use of TiVo Online to initiate any content transfers to a TE4 DVR. An unfortunate drawback of requiring TiVo Online to initiate transfers to a TE4 DVR is that TiVo Online doesn't support MRV-compatible DVR models prior to the Series 4 (Premiere), so users having Series 2 & 3 DVRs on their network are unable to transfer content on these DVRs to their TE4 DVR (absent a Premiere or later DVR running TE3, to act as a middleman ... or performing the content transfer prior to upgrading to TE4).
> *- TiVo-to-TiVo transfers (MRV), Part 2: *Aside from the hassles and limitations of having to use TiVo Online to initiate MRV transfers to a TE4 DVR, the transfer process has been problematic, sometimes resulting in unplayable content once received.
> *- PC-to-TiVo transfers: * Removal of the built-in transfer (MRV) controls from TE4 eliminated the ability to pull content from a PC to the TiVo hard drive, via a compatible program running on the PC (e.g. TiVo Desktop, PyTivo). Similar to MRV transfers from a Series 2 or 3 DVR, a PC-to-TE4 transfer would require a Premiere or later DVR running TE3, to act as a middleman, to first get the content onto a box compatible with TiVo Online.
> *+ VOX Voice Control:* The VOX voice features are only available on TE4.
> *+ Auto Skip:* The Auto Skip feature is only available, at present, on TE4.
> *+ Video Window:* The Video Window transitions have been improved in TE4, eliminating video and audio drop-outs; additionally, Mini's on TE4 can now display the Video Window beyond just the Guide.
> *+ HDMI-CEC integration:* Though limited in scope, TiVo's HDMI-CEC integration is currently available only for BOLT and Roamio DVRs running TE4 -- though not any Minis, regardless of their software version. (see Megamind's post, below, for more details)
> *- Premieres and older: *TE4 is not available for DVRs prior to the Roamio series, so homes with any Premiere or older DVRs would be faced with mixed UIs were they to adopt TE4 on eligible boxes; this can be more problematic for homes where users are accustomed to flipping Minis between host DVRs, as Minis must be running the software version matching their host DVR.
> *- Evaluation Cost:* Given that rollback from TE4 to TE3 requires a factory reset of the DVR, wiping-out all recordings and settings, the cost associated with evaluating TE4 has been too steep for some users. The ability to backup & restore unprotected content and some settings post-rollback can mitigate some of the pain, but this effort, too, can be an unacceptable burden.
> *- Uber-migration:* Owing to the MRV transfer limitations cited above, migrating from an older Series 2 or 3 box to a TE4 DVR is problematic, at best, so it is recommended that the TE4 DVR be rolled-back to TE3 after initial setup in order to enable direct content transfers from the older box(es), after which the new DVR can be upgraded to TE4, if desired, leaving MRV with the older boxes behind. Tipping this bullet into the negative/con territory is the fact that some TiVo hardware (see: BOLT OTA, and possibly the upcoming Edge series) is TE4-only, precluding rollback and direct transfer from the older models.
> 
> *TE3/Encore (20.*)*
> 
> *+ Live Guide*
> *+ Suggestions: *TiVo's original Thumbs ratings-based Suggestions algorithm lives-on in TE3, to the joy of those whose first post-Guided Setup action is _not _disabling Suggestions.
> *+ TiVo-to-TiVo transfers (MRV)*
> *+ PC-to-TiVo transfers*
> *+ QuickMode speed customization:* TE3 allows customization of QuickMode playback speed, from 1.1x to 1.9x, via SPS code entry; there have been no reports of the customization sequence being successfully entered on TE4 and our lone TiVo rep hasn't responded to requests for feedback on TE4 availability. (more info here)
> *~ WYGIWYG:* Arguable whether it's a negative or positive, but development for TE3 has pretty much ended; patches, updates and new features have ground to a halt, with no new update in over a year.
> 
> *TBD*
> 
> UHD, HDR functionality ?
> Voice assistant integration ?
> DIY drive upgrade issues ?
> TiVo streaming app compatibility ?
> Issues w/ Mini VOX running TE3 ?
> review trip1eX's post
> what happened to Smart Extend for TE4 ?
> Wireless Mini Adapter compatibility ?
> Standby-related issues ?
> 
> *NOTES*
> 
> *UI Availability:* TE4 is only available to Roamio or later DVRs, with all Roamio and BOLT models (excluding the BOLT OTA) having the option to run either UI version, TE3 or TE4; the BOLT OTA model and all new EDGE DVRs are restricted to TE4, with no option to rollback to TE3, while Premiere and older DVRs are TE3-only. A TiVo Mini's software will be upgraded/downgraded to match the UI version running on its configured host DVR.
> *Roll-back instructions:* See this thread for information on downgrading an eligible TE4 DVR to TE3.
> 
> h/t: @Mikeguy @Megamind @JoeKustra @TiVo_Ted @V7Goose
> * 30Jan2020: Updated to reflect ability to request pre-roll ad removal
> * 13Oct2020: Updated re: Mini TE4 Video Window persistence (h/t @dougtv )
> #TE3vsTE4 #TE4vsTE3 #TECompare


A few additional things to add here: the TiVo mini wifi adapter says its TE4-only (it's currently listed under TBD on this post): TiVo WiFi 5 USB Adapter
TE4 also seems to add a Spanish language UI option (see the Puerto Rico section): Tivo Customer Support Community
Finally, I would assume that TE4 removes the "Add an app"/HME/HMO/HTTPS server features but I'm not sure.


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## KevTech

krkaufman said:


> UHD, HDR functionality ?


Maybe update this as confirmed as on TE3 you will lose HDR.








TiVo Support Center


Get instant answers to common questions and learn to experience the most from TiVo products.




tivoidp.tivo.com


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## pl1

KevTech said:


> Maybe update this as confirmed as on TE3 you will lose HDR.


Just to clarify, TE3 DOES support 4K. If it is not HDR, it is UHD. Because, Verizon Fios has 4 channels in 4K and they come in fine on my TiVo Bolt 4 tuner with TE3. There are no adjustments for HDR.


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## KevTech

pl1 said:


> Just to clarify, TE3 DOES support 4K. If it is not HDR, it is UHD. Because, Verizon Fios has 4 channels in 4K and they come in fine on my TiVo Bolt 4 tuner with TE3. There are no adjustments for HDR.


It will support 4K but not HDR.
4K and UHD is just about pixels while HDR is about contrast and color.



https://www.lifewire.com/difference-between-hdr-and-4k-4176961



Tivo updated the HDR page recently but it used to have this note about HDR and the Bolt.


> _HDR_ (High Dynamic Range) is available on _TiVo_ EDGE Series and _TiVo BOLT_ Series. Note: _TiVo BOLT_ Series must have _TiVo_ Experience 4 (Software Version 21.x).


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## pl1

KevTech said:


> It will support 4K but not HDR.
> 4K and UHD is just about pixels while HDR is about contrast and color.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.lifewire.com/difference-between-hdr-and-4k-4176961
> 
> 
> 
> Tivo updated the HDR page recently but it used to have this note about HDR and the Bolt.


And to quote the post you linked to:



> 4K
> 
> Refers to screen resolution (the number of pixels a screen can fit).
> *Used synonymously with Ultra HD (UHD)*. Refers to the horizontal screen resolution of about 4,000 pixels.


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## KevTech

I think that is what I said. I know TE3 can do 4K but it can not use HDR only TE4 can.

4K UHD and HDR are different technology's that focus on different things.
4K UHD refers to the number of pixels in a screen and has nothing to do with the color, contrast, or brightness. 
HDR is the screen's ability to maintain a crisp image by automatically adjusting that image by changing the color, contrast, and brightness as needed. 
HDR has nothing to do with the number of pixels in the screen.

To put it another way.
I look at a show on Netflix with TE3 it will say *4K Ultra HD* to the right of the title.
I look at the exact same show on TE4 it will say *4K HDR* to the right of the title.


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## krkaufman

KevTech said:


> Maybe update this as confirmed as on TE3 you will lose HDR.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TiVo Support Center
> 
> 
> Get instant answers to common questions and learn to experience the most from TiVo products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tivoidp.tivo.com


Done. But what about Mini VOX & LUX?


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## KevTech

krkaufman said:


> Done. But what about Mini VOX & LUX?


Have no idea about mini as I do not own any.
By Lux do you mean the Lux remote and RF mode?

Tivo says Lux will only do IR when on TE3.


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## chiguy50

KevTech said:


> HDR has nothing to do with the number of pixels in the screen.


In fact, there is no technical reason why a video provider could not transmit an HD (1080p) signal encoded in HDR and WCG (wide color gamut).


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## krkaufman

KevTech said:


> By Lux do you mean


Just the Mini, itself; same box for HDR purposes.


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## pl1

chiguy50 said:


> In fact, there is no technical reason why a video provider could not transmit an HD (1080p) signal encoded in HDR and WCG (wide color gamut).


I confess, I really didn't know the difference between HDR and 4K, and I was just trying to clarify that the Bolt on TE3 could provide 4K. I know there is no setting for HDR in TE3. Now that I understand the difference, I wonder why providers don't transmit in HDR if they are capable.


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## chiguy50

pl1 said:


> I confess, I really didn't know the difference between HDR and 4K, and I was just trying to clarify that the Bolt on TE3 could provide 4K. I know there is no setting for HDR in TE3. Now that I understand the difference, *I wonder why providers don't transmit in HDR if they are capable*.


I suspect that a lot of it has to do with the increased bandwidth requirements together with a lack of pressure from the brunt of their non-videophile consumer base.

FWIW, unless you are watching on a display of 85" or larger, the upgrade from SDR to HDR is typically much more impactful than the difference between HD and UHD.


----------

