# Fundamental questions re COX and TIVO



## Rich Gibson (Apr 29, 2004)

I'm certain this has been asked numerous times before. I'm a long time TIVO user (when I rejoined last night it seems 2003 was my last log-in) going back to S-Video days and left with the advent of COX upgrades. My bill went up $12 this month so my son called (same name as mine) to get information. It seems that they gave us a discount last fall and next month it's ending; next month our bill will go up another $30. We've gone through the bill with a fine tooth comb and all we can pull off is long distance so I'm coming back to see what advantage there is with the new TIVO set up.

I realize this probably has been asked before so all I need is a pointer to where I can see an explanation how TIVO fits in with COX. I assume the crux of this is the DVRs being replaced with a TIVO and some sort of cable card; any other hardware..costs? Cox seems to have all sorts of piddling charges in that part of the bill...sort of like the real estate industry which adds all sorts of charges when you buy a house....turns out you can't get out from any of the charges. I'd appreciate any explanation of what I can and can't do to move to Roamio (or whatever) and away from this money sink.

I should explain. I'm a fairly experienced HT user with an Integra DTR 40.3 receiver, three HD digital Cisco boxes, 104" projection screen in the family room, OPPO DVD player, Mac Mini HTC, ROKU and 1x4 splitters feeding the entire house. I've been doing this for over 25 years now moving from RG6 cabling and Radio Shack gizmos to HDMI. I also use iRule on my Android tablets and Samsung Galaxy phone to control everything through wireless and a network device which send out ir signals to the head units. Lots of fun to keep a 72 year old geezer from slowing down.

Thanks, Rich


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Rich Gibson said:


> I'm certain this has been asked numerous times before. I'm a long time TIVO user (when I rejoined last night it seems 2003 was my last log-in) going back to S-Video days and left with the advent of COX upgrades. My bill went up $12 this month so my son called (same name as mine) to get information. It seems that they gave us a discount last fall and next month it's ending; next month our bill will go up another $30. We've gone through the bill with a fine tooth comb and all we can pull off is long distance so I'm coming back to see what advantage there is with the new TIVO set up.
> 
> I realize this probably has been asked before so all I need is a pointer to where I can see an explanation how TIVO fits in with COX. I assume the crux of this is the DVRs being replaced with a TIVO and some sort of cable card; any other hardware..costs? Cox seems to have all sorts of piddling charges in that part of the bill...sort of like the real estate industry which adds all sorts of charges when you buy a house....turns out you can't get out from any of the charges. I'd appreciate any explanation of what I can and can't do to move to Roamio (or whatever) and away from this money sink.
> 
> ...


the main things that change tivo monthly or lifetime service charge cost of tivo hardware and cox cable card. no ppv with a tivo on cox/


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## Rich Gibson (Apr 29, 2004)

Thanks. I was hoping for something a bit more detailed. Any links? There are three adult viewers in our home. Each person regularly records different programming. As I read the specifications a single DVR (say Roamio plus) houses all the recorded programming. Two of the users would need a mini as an interface to the main TIVO. Can users see programs which another user has recorded? Can a viewer watch a program from a location different from where they recorded? If I understand the above answer it's not possible to view HBO/Showtime, etc. through TIVO? Would that mean I'd need at least one CAX box to be able to see this programming? So in addition to the purchase of the hardware we'll need a subscription...getting more and more expensive.

Let's see (rounding to the next $) : Roamio Plus $400 and two Mini's @ $100 or $600. 
Service Roamio $15 per month and $12 for the minis or $32 a month; life time $500 + $150 or $650

On my COX bill under hardware there are two charges
DVR Service $30 (or is this one of those "you have to pay no matter what you do..sorry!" deals?)
DVR/HD Advanced Receiver $26
or $56 per month minus cost of cable card.

Clearly lifetime is a better deal. Roughly it pays for itself in one year....but no HBO/Showtime? What do folks here do to get it, or did I misunderstand something?

Thanks, Rich


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/573

the cox prices should be easy to find via the cox website. if you get a premiere or roamio Tivo you will get the Cox plus package free the one that has the channels in the whole home dvr.


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## Rich Gibson (Apr 29, 2004)

> the cox prices should be easy to find via the cox website. if you get a premiere or roamio Tivo you will get the Cox plus package free the one that has the channels in the whole home dvr.


Thanks. There is no plus package on my bill. We have the advanced TV premier and 2 premium packages. There are a bunch of 'paks' under it but no plus. I checked around and according to some discussion HBO and Showtime are available if I pay for them. By whole home DVR are you referring to Contour? That isn't in play.

I checked with COX and turning in three DVRs will result in a saving of both those charges I mentioned above so the lifetime charge is paid off in one year.

Very helpful.
Rich


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Rich, where are you located?

I would highly recommend you get a Roamio and give it a try for 30 days, I believe you will love it. You can always cancel and send it back if you do not agree.

With Cox you need a CableCARD and a SDV Tuning Adapter.


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## Rich Gibson (Apr 29, 2004)

CoxInPHX said:


> Rich, where are you located?
> 
> I would highly recommend you get a Roamio and give it a try for 30 days, I believe you will love it. You can always cancel and send it back if you do not agree.
> 
> With Cox you need a CableCARD and a SDV Tuning Adapter.


I live in northern Virginia. When I spoke with the representative at Cox she did not mention the SDA. Is that extra or does it come with the card?

Rich


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Rich Gibson said:


> I live in northern Virginia. When I spoke with the representative at Cox she did not mention the SDA. Is that extra or does it come with the card?
> 
> Rich


The SDV (Switched Digital Video) Tuning Adapter is free and needed along with the CableCARD to access many channels, mostly SD channels, but there are several HD channels also like MSNBCHD, TWCHD, each market is slightly different

Tuning Adapter Self Install Kits - Cisco 
http://ww2.cox.com/residential/support/tv/article.cox?articleId=32912b10-ea63-11de-f523-000000000000

CableCARD and Retail Devices:
http://ww2.cox.com/residential/support/tv/article.cox?articleId=b8889a60-d706-11df-66a2-000000000000

CableCARD Self Install Kit - Cisco
http://media.cox.com/support/print_.../CCI110069_CableCardInstallGuide_CiscoCT2.pdf

CableCARD FAQs 
http://ww2.cox.com/residential/support/tv/article.cox?articleId=76ab0920-5c4a-11df-ed4d-000000000000

Here is the list of Cox Phoenix SDV HD Channels - It should be very similar to other Cox markets.

1020	-	KTAZ - Telemundo HD
1025	-	Spike HD
1029	-	MTV HD
1038	-	HLNHD
1045	-	TruTV HD
1052	-	E! HD
1054	-	KFPH-CA UM HD
1055	-	Galavision HD
1057	-	Animal Planet HD
1063	-	MSNBC HD
1067	-	FXXHD
1068	-	FBNHD
1069	-	NBC Sports Network HD
1071	-	Turner Classic Movies HD
1072	-	National Geographic HD
1073	-	Fox Sports Arizona Plus HD
1074	-	TVGNHD
1076	-	UDNHD 
1098	-	QVCHD
1100	-	OWNHD
1104	-	Investigation Discovery HD
1130	-	Hallmark Channel HD
1131	-	LMN HD
1135	-	Bio HD
1136	-	H2 HD
1137	-	BBC America HD
1138	-	Disney XD HD
1144	-	Nat Geo Wild HD
1157	-	Fuse HD
1180	-	WEtv HD
1181	-	Esquire HD
1250	-	The Movie Channel HD
1295	-	Epix HD 
1299	-	NFL RedZone HD
1305	-	MLB Network HD
1308	-	NBA TV HD
1310	-	NHL Network HD
1312	-	CBS Sports Network HD
1315	-	Tennis Channel HD
1320	-	BTN HD
1330	-	ESPN U HD
1331	-	ESPNews HD
1337	-	Gol TV HD
1362	-	Epix HD
1364	-	Encore HD
1385	-	IFC HD
1388	-	IndiePlex HD
1389	-	RetroPlex HD
1390	-	Hallmark Movie Channel HD
1401	-	KFPH-CA UM HD
1402	-	Galavision HD
1404	-	KTAZ - Telmun HD
1406	-	KTVW - Uni HD
1426	-	Cartoon Network HD
1440	-	Gol TV HD
1651	-	NBA League Pass/MLS Direct Kick HD
1671	-	MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice HD
1672	-	MLB Extra Innings/NHL Center Ice HD2
1677	-	BTN HD Overflow
1692	-	Fox Soccer Plus HD
1699	-	NFL RedZone HD


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## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Maybe threaten to switch to FiOS. I'm in NoVA and have FiOS. I don't know if it is available in your neighborhood, but I'm not sure if they can tell. FiOS is running a great half of deal for all the premium channels right now.


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## Rich Gibson (Apr 29, 2004)

waynomo said:


> Maybe threaten to switch to FiOS. I'm in NoVA and have FiOS. I don't know if it is available in your neighborhood, but I'm not sure if they can tell. FiOS is running a great half of deal for all the premium channels right now.


FIOS is in our neighborhood; I watched as they dug up my front lawn. I'll be straight forward. I've heard horror stories about FIOS on many sites. In fairness I've seen horror stories about COX as well. My wife is leery of integrating two disparate companies. At least we know COX; if we went to FIOS we'd be dealing with two unknowns and trying to tie them together.

I think the best approach is to buy the Roamio itself and get it up and running for a while and then go from there after working out the kinks. The box in the bedroom is my wife's domain; the family room is mine.

For COXinPHX, where did you see a 30 day return? I looked at the TIVO site and didn't see that.

Rich


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Rich Gibson said:


> FIOS is in our neighborhood; I watched as they dug up my front lawn. I'll be straight forward. I've heard horror stories about FIOS on many sites. In fairness I've seen horror stories about COX as well. *My wife is leery of integrating two disparate companies.* At least we know COX; if we went to FIOS we'd be dealing with two unknowns and trying to tie them together.
> 
> I think the best approach is to buy the Roamio itself and get it up and running for a while and then go from there after working out the kinks. The box in the bedroom is my wife's domain; the family room is mine.
> 
> ...


What do you mean "My wife is leery of integrating two disparate companies."

If I had the opportunity I would go with FiOS for all services TV-Internet-Phone. And possibly switch back and forth every 2 years to get the best new customer promos.

*TiVo 30-day Money-Back Guarantee*
https://www.tivo.com/legal/terms#moneyback

I would purchase the TiVo from Amazon, better price, and also so you can take advantage of the $100 Off of Lifetime Service with promo code PLSR, when activating online. The code PLSR only works when you purchase the TiVo from a 3rd party.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10063218#post10063218

BestBuy only has a 15 day return policy unless you are an Elite member, so I would avoid them if you want the full 30 day test drive.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/help-to...cy/pcmcat260800050014.c?id=pcmcat260800050014


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## Rich Gibson (Apr 29, 2004)

CoxInPHX said:


> What do you mean "My wife is leery of integrating two disparate companies."
> 
> If I had the opportunity I would go with FiOS for all services TV-Internet-Phone. And possibly switch back and forth every 2 years to get the best new customer promos.
> 
> ...


1. Changing from COX to TIVO is one and from COX to FIOS is the second; two new, different systems to deal with. Running TIVO off a FIOS system is a bit much to ask of her.

2. The 30 day guaranty at TIVO says you have to buy it from TIVO; I assume that means if you get it from Amazon TIVO won't cover the 30 day guaranty, or did you mean Amazon also has a 30 day?

I have to shed some camera equipment before I can make the move. Thanks to all for your helpful information.

Rich


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

If the TiVo was purchased from Amazon, Amazon has a 30 day return policy, where Amazon is the Seller, (Ships from and sold by Amazon.com), also many sellers on Amazon also abide by the standard Amazon Return Policy, but some do not, so you should always check when purchasing from a 3rd party seller on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=15015721

The TiVo 30 day refund policy would be a refund for the cost of Service only.
_..."we offer a 30-day money-back guarantee on all purchases from tivo.com *and on all newly-activated TiVo service subscriptions*. Return any item you purchase from tivo.com within 30 days of the order shipment date, *or cancel any newly-activated TiVo service subscription within 30 days of the activation date*, and we will give you a full refund (with no early termination fee)..."_​


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## Rich Gibson (Apr 29, 2004)

Thanks very much for the explanation and advice. Once I sell my camera equipment I'll move on it.

Rich


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## jcaudle (Aug 16, 2004)

waynomo said:


> Maybe threaten to switch to FiOS. I'm in NoVA and have FiOS. I don't know if it is available in your neighborhood, but I'm not sure if they can tell. FiOS is running a great half of deal for all the premium channels right now.


I did switch to Fios. I have fewer internet problems, I don't have to use those silly converters due to Switched Digital Video (SDV). They have faster internet speeds and less problems.


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## AZrob (Mar 31, 2002)

CoxInPHX said:


> The SDV (Switched Digital Video) Tuning Adapter is free and needed along with the CableCARD to access many channels, mostly SD channels, but there are several HD channels also like MSNBCHD, TWCHD, each market is slightly different
> 
> Tuning Adapter Self Install Kits - Cisco
> http://ww2.cox.com/residential/support/tv/article.cox?articleId=32912b10-ea63-11de-f523-000000000000
> ...


I just noticed in my latest bill from Cox in Phoenix that they are planning to switch over 32 more channels to SDV after June 25th - but they don't say which ones will be changed. If this means that the above list will get 32 rows longer, does anyone know what channels will be affected?

Rob from AZ


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## Diana Collins (Aug 21, 2002)

Rich Gibson said:


> ....but no HBO/Showtime? What do folks here do to get it, or did I misunderstand something?
> 
> Thanks, Rich


I have never heard that about COX, and I can tell you for a fact that you can watch and record HBO and Showtime on FiOS. On FiOS HBO is copy protected, so the Cablecard has to be paired, not just activated, and that can cause some confusion with the Verizon techs but, at least here in NJ, they have CSRs that seem to know what needs to be done.

Because it is copy protected you can't transfer a recording from one DVR to another, but you can watch it (i.e. stream it) without difficulty. Showtime is watchable and copyable.

In many ways, FiOS is the ideal service to use with TiVo...it just works.


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## Tiresius (Mar 22, 2004)

So I notice CoxInPHX posting here may be a Cox employee or rep.
I just bought a TiVo Roamio Plus(already had Series3, TiVoHD & a series 2 dvd burner model.
Primary reason for the upgrade was I travel a lot and wanted an easier way of getting all the shows we watch onto my iPad to watch on the plane and in the hotel. This means download no streaming, since I'm offline, or hotel bandwidth is unreliable.
I did a careful comparison of the cost of staying with Cox vs switching to Dish with Hopper.
For the channels we watch, and the number of TV's we have, the pricing came out to be within $10 a month. So, as a longtime Cox customer and big fan of TiVo, I chose to stick with Cox.

Then the Roamio arrives, and I figure out really quickly that EVERYTHING except broadcast networks is flagged by Cox.

I knew this, but did not know that this meant no copying to iPad and not even streaming to iPad out of home.

Well if I'm in my home, I'm going to watch the damned show on the 73" tv not my iPad.

Finally to the question: Why should I stick with Cox, when I can switch to Dish, get all the same programming for roughly the same price, AND I can download or stream all the shows I watch to my iPad?

Please help me out with this. How do we get Cox to unflag all the non-premium channels that shouldn't be flagged? (SyFy, TNT, AMC, FX, etc.)

I have about 15 more days to return the TiVo and make the switch away from Cox to Dish.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Tiresius said:


> So I notice CoxInPHX posting here may be a Cox employee or rep.
> I just bought a TiVo Roamio Plus(already had Series3, TiVoHD & a series 2 dvd burner model.
> Primary reason for the upgrade was I travel a lot and wanted an easier way of getting all the shows we watch onto my iPad to watch on the plane and in the hotel. This means download no streaming, since I'm offline, or hotel bandwidth is unreliable.
> I did a careful comparison of the cost of staying with Cox vs switching to Dish with Hopper.
> ...


he's a customer not an employee.


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## Tiresius (Mar 22, 2004)

ajwees41 said:


> he's a customer not an employee.


Ah, OK thanks.


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## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

ajwees41 said:


> he's a customer not an employee.


He does seem to know more about Cox's operations in AZ and NV, than even the most OCD customer (like me) could possibly know. I get the impression he has some connections, or knows somebody on the inside.

He's been a very valuable and appreciated resource on TCF, and not just limited to Cox matters.

I suggest a PM for those looking for a quick response, or to point out you posted something in a thread, looking for input.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Tiresius said:


> So I notice CoxInPHX posting here may be a Cox employee or rep. I just bought a TiVo Roamio Plus(already had Series3, TiVoHD & a series 2 dvd burner model. Primary reason for the upgrade was I travel a lot and wanted an easier way of getting all the shows we watch onto my iPad to watch on the plane and in the hotel. This means download no streaming, since I'm offline, or hotel bandwidth is unreliable. I did a careful comparison of the cost of staying with Cox vs switching to Dish with Hopper. For the channels we watch, and the number of TV's we have, the pricing came out to be within $10 a month. So, as a longtime Cox customer and big fan of TiVo, I chose to stick with Cox. Then the Roamio arrives, and I figure out really quickly that EVERYTHING except broadcast networks is flagged by Cox. I knew this, but did not know that this meant no copying to iPad and not even streaming to iPad out of home. Well if I'm in my home, I'm going to watch the damned show on the 73" tv not my iPad. Finally to the question: Why should I stick with Cox, when I can switch to Dish, get all the same programming for roughly the same price, AND I can download or stream all the shows I watch to my iPad? Please help me out with this. How do we get Cox to unflag all the non-premium channels that shouldn't be flagged? (SyFy, TNT, AMC, FX, etc.) I have about 15 more days to return the TiVo and make the switch away from Cox to Dish.


Get a slingbox.....problem solved.


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## Tiresius (Mar 22, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Get a slingbox.....problem solved.


Another great suggestion about a great product, but not relevant to my post at all.

As it says, I need something that is download and NOT streaming, because I want to download to watch offline. (airplane, hotel w/no reliable wifi, etc)

I have used slingboxes quite a bit, and they are great, but unless something has changed drastically, they are streaming only.

My current solution continues to be downloading shows in MP4 from TVTorrents before the trip, even though the shows are sitting right on my TiVo.

The real purpose of my post was to see if there is any way at all to get movement from Cox on this issue.

Otherwise I can continue as I have been in the past, or I can switch to Dish, and sadly, away from TiVo. I've been an active(monthly) TiVo customer since September 2001, and a Cox customer since like 1996.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Tiresius said:


> Another great suggestion about a great product, but not relevant to my post at all. As it says, I need something that is download and NOT streaming, because I want to download to watch offline. (airplane, hotel w/no reliable wifi, etc) I have used slingboxes quite a bit, and they are great, but unless something has changed drastically, they are streaming only. My current solution continues to be downloading shows in MP4 from TVTorrents before the trip, even though the shows are sitting right on my TiVo. The real purpose of my post was to see if there is any way at all to get movement from Cox on this issue. Otherwise I can continue as I have been in the past, or I can switch to Dish, and sadly, away from TiVo. I've been an active(monthly) TiVo customer since September 2001, and a Cox customer since like 1996.


 Use kmttg to record your Slingbox streams from the TiVo in question.


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## CoxInPHX (Jan 14, 2011)

Tiresius said:


> Please help me out with this. How do we get Cox to unflag all the non-premium channels that shouldn't be flagged? (SyFy, TNT, AMC, FX, etc.)





Tiresius said:


> The real purpose of my post was to see if there is any way at all to get movement from Cox on this issue.


I do not see Cox changing its position on the CCI Byte and Copy Once anytime soon. Many have asked and petitioned to get it changed without success.

There was one request that got the attention of an engineer in Atlanta, who contacted an engineer in Phoenix that had the ability, (but probably not the authority), to change the CCI Byte from Copy Once to Copy Freely. That lasted only 10 days, before the switch was flipped back.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r26493685-CATV-AZ-Need-help-from-a-cox-employee

Cox Social Media CSRs try really hard to avoid addressing this issue. But the answer is always the same. They state that *Cox's contracts with content providers require that the CCI Byte be set to Copy Once*. I do not buy this answer, because there are a few Cox markets that do not set everything to Copy Once.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

CoxInPHX said:


> Cox Social Media CSRs try really hard to avoid addressing this issue. But the answer is always the same. They state that *Cox's contracts with content providers require that the CCI Byte be set to Copy Once*.


Have they officially stated that? The only official statements I've seen have said that (paraphrasing) *Cox's setting of the CCI byte is required to be consistent with the contracts with content providers *.
Some contracts may require Copy Once (premiums like HBO and perhaps non-premiums like Encore Movies), but I have never heard Cox say that they use the most liberal setting any particular contract allows. I expect that most contracts don't address the issue, and thus Cox setting Copy Once is consistent with them (but not required by them).


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## SatManager (Feb 2, 2012)

I just want to jump in an say thank you for all of the great information that has been passed out. I am a current Directv customer that is looking to make the move to a TiVo, live in the Vegas Cox market, so I am trying to learn everything I can. Been lurking and reading all I can so thanks for all the hints and advice.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

CrispyCritter said:


> Have they officially stated that? The only official statements I've seen have said that (paraphrasing) *Cox's setting of the CCI byte is required to be consistent with the contracts with content providers *.


Cox is attempting to imply that the contract itself requires setting the CCI Byte. That can't be true otherwise Comcast and FIOS would also be setting it. More likely setting the CCI Byte is not forbidden by the contract and Cox are just being jerks about the whole thing.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

randian said:


> Cox is attempting to imply that the contract itself requires setting the CCI Byte. That can't be true otherwise Comcast and FIOS would also be setting it. More likely setting the CCI Byte is not forbidden by the contract and Cox are just being jerks about the whole thing.


either that or they know how to set so it just works while cox doesn't have the people that know how to do it.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

randian said:


> Cox is attempting to imply that the contract itself requires setting the CCI Byte. That can't be true otherwise Comcast and FIOS would also be setting it. More likely setting the CCI Byte is not forbidden by the contract and Cox are just being jerks about the whole thing.


Well, it could be true, if Comcast & FIOS' contracts were _different_ than COX's. (I think it's unlikely, however, and IIRC, in the long ago past, some people were able to get the CCI byte removed from stations after communication between the network and the cable company.)


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Rich Gibson said:


> FIOS is in our neighborhood; I watched as they dug up my front lawn. I'll be straight forward. I've heard horror stories about FIOS on many sites. In fairness I've seen horror stories about COX as well. My wife is leery of integrating two disparate companies. At least we know COX; if we went to FIOS we'd be dealing with two unknowns and trying to tie them together.
> 
> I think the best approach is to buy the Roamio itself and get it up and running for a while and then go from there after working out the kinks. The box in the bedroom is my wife's domain; the family room is mine.
> 
> ...


Get FIOS! Run, don't walk to Verizon FIOS. It is THE BEST TV service in the country, hands down, and it works very well with TiVo. And the internet speeds are AMAZING. The PQ is better, since they don't over-compress as many channels (as much, they still heavily compress some channels like cable), and they have a full 860mhz system with no internet, VOD, or phone (since that's all separate through IP or the phone port on the ONT), so they have a lot of bandwidth work with, so they have a TON of HD.

The real question is why didn't you get FIOS the DAY it was available?

I know some Rhode Islanders, where Cox is the incumbent, and almost everywhere has been wired for FIOS. They HATE Cox almost universally, because it doesn't work half the time, they screw stuff up all the time, and their service just generally sucks, and they LOVE FIOS. I do know one person who went to Cox, but she was just looking for the cheapest package possible, and didn't care about how superior FIOS is to Cox in every possible way.

Get FIOS double play, or if you still want an annoying landline phone, triple play.

Good info in the thread for anyone who can't get FIOS and is stuck with Cox, but anyone would can get FIOS would be NUTS to use Cox.


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