# Favorite channels disappear in TiVo Live Guide



## BlankMan

_<Added 29-jun-2004>_

****** NEWSFLASH ***** NEWSFLASH ***** NEWSFLASH ***** NEWSFLASH ******

TiVo is looking for volunteers to help them acquire data regarding this problem. *TiVoOpsMgr* has posted an official request here (in this thread) requesting participants. The post also mentions that DirecTV is aware of this problem. Finally, an official statement to such, and I was so getting used to _I've never heard of that problem..._ 

****** NEWSFLASH ***** NEWSFLASH ***** NEWSFLASH ***** NEWSFLASH ******

_<Addition end 29-jun-2004>_

Anyone else having this occur periodically?

I use the TiVo Live Guide set to Favorites, my favorite channels are set. Every once in a while I press the Guide button and I get the following message:

_This Channel list has not been set up.

To use a different channel list, press DISPLAY.
to set up this channel list, press the
TiVo button, then Messages & Setup, 
then My Preferences, then Customize Channels._

This is very frustrating (as in it's happened more then once) and basically BS because they were set, the TiVo unit lost them and I have to set them up again. This has happened on a number of different Sony SAT-T60's. No one else erased them or reset the TiVo. The TiVo did it all on it's own. Software Version is 3.1.0-01-1-011.

_<addendum 12-Dec-2003>_

This problem also manifests itself as losing _Channels I Receive_. Then because the DTiVo no longer thinks it gets that channel anything that was suppose to be recorded on the missing channels is not. This is no longer a minor inconvenience it is now affecting the ability of the DirecTV Receiver with TiVo, or DirecTV DVR as DirecTV calls it, to do the one thing it is touted to do, and that is to record programs.

_<updated 29-Dec-2003>_

_A synopsis of this problem, with thanks to *kevinm* for contributing parts of it._

A large number of DirecTV subscribers are experiencing a bug with DirecTiVo's that has gone publicly unacknowledged by DirecTV. This thread demonstrates the magnitude and scope of the problem as well as DirecTV's handling of it.

When this problem occurs you may loose some or all of the channels in your Favorite Channel list and/or some or all of the channels in your Channels I Receive list. The later impacts your ability to record programs. To restore the Channels I Receive requires you need to reboot your DTiVo, to restore the Favorite Channels list you must manually re-add them. Again and again and again.

It is known that many people have called into DirecTV on this issue and it is recommended that those who experience it also do the same. Reporting of this issue is one of the strongest methods of getting it resolved. Unfortunately the front line CSRs either do not know or instructed not to acknowledge this as a known issue. It is recommended that you ask for a Tivo Specialist and ask for N day's credit for days that you were unable to view or record DirecTV.

_Contributed by *Mark Lopez*_

Clear and delete won't fix it. Hacked or unhacked doesn't matter. Phone line or not has no bearing. Seasons passes or any recordings makes no difference.

BlankMan WARNING: SO DO NOT DO A CLEAR AND DELETE AS DIRECTV MAY SUGGEST IT WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM IT HAS BEEN TRIED, ALL IT WILL DO IS ERASE ALL YOUR RECORDINGS, SEASON PASSES, ETC.

_<updated 28-Jun-2004>_

*stevel* asked that the OP be updated with these facts:

- There is no fix available
- DirecTV has no clue if or when a fix would be made available - they are now, at least, sometimes acknowledging that they know about the problem
- If you complain enough, they'll likely offer to replace your S1 boxes with S2 boxes that don't have this problem. They will ask for a $49 fee, but sometimes they'll waive it.

However, as of 28-Jun-2004 as mentioned in this post, it mentions that a new software version is going out that is supposed to correct this issue. Let's all hope...


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## BlankMan

I can't believe this but I suppose I should not be suprised this was DirecTV's anwser to this problem:
_

Dear <BlankMan>,

Thank you for writing. We apologize for all the inconvenience this matter may be causing. Resetting your system can resolve many of the problems you could be experiencing. To reset your system, follow these steps:

1. Turn off the receiver box. 
2. Unplug it from the electrical outlet. 
3. Leave it unplugged for 15 seconds. 
4. Reconnect it to the electrical outlet and return to normal viewing.

If this does not resolve your problem, please call our technical support
center. To reach them, call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for 
technical assistance. We appreciate you as a DIRECTV customer and hope 
you continue to enjoy DIRECTV service.

Kate
DIRECTV Customer Service

_


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## minorthr

I have been having a similar problem but its with the channels I receive. Ill take the box out of standby and it will say it is acquiring the sat signal it does its thing and all the channels are back even the ones I don't receive and had previously unchecked. Also then when I go into the suggestions it says I have no thumbs but you go in the guide and the thumbs are there. Then after a day the suggestions and thumbs are all back.


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## sendsley

I have that EXACT issue (as the original post) - and it seems to be more frequent on my Phillips 6000 than my Sony SAT 60 but it happens to both and it sucks!!! And yes, I got the same response from DirecTV - no help of course. And guess what....after you call they're going to make you do the same frigin' thing, and surprise, surprise it still won't work!


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## BlankMan

I knew this wasn't going to be fun.

After bantering (nicely) back and forth with TiVo Support they escalated the call and said someone would contact me. Well they did, today, Aaron from TiVo Corporate called. I explained the problem to him and he fully understood it. He said he would do some research, talk to some people and get back to me, but it might take a few days. I asked him if he had access to engineering and engineers and he explained that he did and it could be passed up to engineering to get an answer.

That was the good news. He called me back later today with the bad news, or as he put probably not what I wanted to hear. And it was/is exactly what I expected and was exactly what I was afraid of when DirecTV took over responsibility for DTiVo's.

He said, he was told, that I have to contact DirecTV and go through their support then if they determine it's a problem they have to contact TiVo. My worst fears realized. Unless I'm told differently, I don't think DirecTV writes the code, they can't fix the code, but I have to jump through their hoops. 

I'd wish someone would explain to me how this procedure benefits customer satisfaction?


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## Joey303

I've already been through this Tivo-DirecTV runaround, in order to resolve a similar problem -- it resets my Channels-I-Receive list, which totally screws-up TiVo's recording of Suggestions. I'm told by folks on these boards that DirecTV does this purposely and that it's not going to change. Good luck.


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## BlankMan

This just happened again on my tivo1, I'm going to start tracking this, this is just ridiculous and unacceptable. The units uptime is 19 days so it didn't just have a problem and reboot.

Boy, do I ever feel like I bought something and I'm left holding the bag as they say.


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## BlankMan

Well it happened again, a week or two ago, I forget which of my T60's, 1 or 2, all that was left was the NASA channel, so I programmed it again.

Then last night it happened again, all favorite channels poof gone! On TiVo1. It's been up for 48 days so I doubt it a reboot issue.

I've PM'd TiVoPony twice, both seemed to be delivered, nary a response. I know DTV is suppose to support these, but this code came out at the same time DTV took them over so I'm betting TiVo still wrote it.

This isn't even poor customer support. This is no customer support.

A known problem. Repeatedly occurring. Nothing being done. Ignoring it does not seem to make it go away.

Think I'll try a more direct approach at getting TiVoPony's attention. Right after I borrow my friend's, who is a fireman, flame retardant suit...


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## BlankMan

Thank you TiVoOpsMgr. No, I PM'd him back on May 29th and then on June 6th, it was either not received or ignored. I still have them in my Sent Items but they disappeared from Message Tracking.


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## stevel

This has happened to me three times so far in the last two months. The Favorites list gets wiped out. What has also happened twice so far is that the guide data index is wiped out and takes a day to get rebuilt, with the result that shows drop off the To Do list because they're "no longer in the program guide" even though you can go to the time and channel and see them.

Like you, I complained to DirecTV and got the brush-off.

I've had my DSR6000s for a year and a half now, and this problem is new in the last couple of months. No reboot occurred - just a loss of data.

My guess is that it's one of those infamous "APG Resets" that DirecTV denies knowing anything about, but in the past, they've been somewhat more benign (resetting the Channels You Receive to include all channels.) DirecTV's response to that is to use the Favorites list, which is not supposed to be touched. Except now it is...


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## Gunnyman

ok
so let me UNDERSTAND this...
My Directivo isn't a TIVO supported device AT ALL?

Jeeeze I feel like I am back in the same boat I was in with my buggy as bugy can be PVR 501 from E*

is my 5 bucks a month a licensing fee or something?


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## Chris Gerhard

I have never lost channels I receive or any channel list for that matter on any of mine and I have had a DTiVo since October 2000. The bug must be a result of something that I am not doing and maybe caused by a memory overload. It may be possible to dump error messages for review by DirecTV to identify the cause. Unfortunately intermittent bugs that occur once in a while in a small percentage of units are tough to identify.

Chris


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Gunnyman2k3 _
> *is my 5 bucks a month a licensing fee or something?
> 
> *


If you're referring to the TiVo fee in my mind it covers getting the Program Guide info.


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## TiVoStephen

Folks, thanks for the description of the problem. We're investigating with DIRECTV. (As was announced previously, DIRECTV is responsible for the technical and customer support for all DIRECTV with TiVo DVRs.)

Can anyone who is experiencing this issue please send me their 15-digit TiVo Service Number, and the timeframe of when the favorites or other channel lists were cleared?


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Chris Gerhard _
> *I have never lost channels I receive or any channel list for that matter on any of mine and I have had a DTiVo since October 2000. The bug must be a result of something that I am not doing and maybe caused by a memory overload. It may be possible to dump error messages for review by DirecTV to identify the cause. Unfortunately intermittent bugs that occur once in a while in a small percentage of units are tough to identify.
> 
> Chris *


No offense but this doesn't add a lot of value, the fact that it's not happening to you and your speculation as to the cause and that intermittent bugs are hard to fix. I never knew that.  And it's probably not happening to a lot of people but it is happening to some and has been reported and was blown off. Very frustrating. Very.

If it's a bug tell us it's going to be fixed or not, if it's on purpose tells us it's on purpose, just own up to it. We may not be happy with the answer but at least we'll know whether is a software glitch that will be fixed or we have to live with, or some executives idiotic idea.


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## Chris Gerhard

> _Originally posted by Gunnyman2k3 _
> *ok
> so let me UNDERSTAND this...
> My Directivo isn't a TIVO supported device AT ALL?
> 
> Jeeeze I feel like I am back in the same boat I was in with my buggy as bugy can be PVR 501 from E*
> 
> is my 5 bucks a month a licensing fee or something?
> 
> *


Part of the fee goes to TiVo and the balance offsets part of the cost to provide the service. Despite what some write about the product here, it is very stable and the service provided by DirecTV is a great value in my opinion. This product works better than any audio video product I have owned and I have been buying home audio video equipment for over 30 years. There have been a few bugs and bug fixes have not been has quick as I would like but I accept that. The Dish PVRs have more serious bugs and offer performance that is not even close to this product.

Without exception, I have turned the TV on for almost 3 years now and programming of my choice is waiting to be viewed at my convenience. This disappearing channel list bug must be annoying to those that have it and I understand their frustration.

Chris


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## Chris Gerhard

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *No offense but this doesn't add a lot of value, the fact that it's not happening to you and your speculation as to the cause and that intermittent bugs are hard to fix. I never knew that.  And it's probably not happening to a lot of people but it is happening to some and has been reported and was blown off. Very frustrating. Very.
> *


Your whining adds absolutely no value. Try to determine what you have done before it happens and see if you can help determine the cause. Just whining will never fix the problem. If you are too frustrated and expect DirecTV to fix it based on your complaining, get something that works better. If not and you want to help fix the problem do something about it.

Chris


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## BrettStah

Are you guys using Standby mode, by any chance? Someone earlier in the thread seemed to link the symptoms with Standby mode, so I'm curious if everyone else reporting the same symptoms also use it. I never use Standby mode and have never seen this issue yet.


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## stevel

Here is my earlier thread on this problem.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Chris Gerhard _
> *Your whining adds absolutely no value. Try to determine what you have done before it happens and see if you can help determine the cause. Just whining will never fix the problem. If you are too frustrated and expect DirecTV to fix it based on your complaining, get something that works better. If not and you want to help fix the problem do something about it.
> 
> Chris *


This shows how much you don't know.

I did absolutely nothing. Wasn't even using it. Haven't in probably a week or more. Last time I used it the Favorite Channels we're there, last night they were gone.

I haven't watched any recorded shows. I haven't changed or added any Season Passes. I haven't altered it's recording habits in any way nor manually deleted or added any recordings.

And whining? You must have a very different Dictionary then the rest of us. I do believe I am reporting a problem. I do believe I now have the attention of TiVoOpsMgr, someone who may be able to do something about it. I do believe he is trying to help.

And what are you doing? Nothing. At least nothing that is of any value that can solve the problem. Unless you're a TiVo software/hardware engineer and not letting on.

Now please, let TiVoOpsMgr handle this.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *Are you guys using Standby mode, by any chance? Someone earlier in the thread seemed to link the symptoms with Standby mode, so I'm curious if everyone else reporting the same symptoms also use it. I never use Standby mode and have never seen this issue yet. *


No, I never use Standby, I leave them on all the time and they are on a UPS also. This way if I happened to turn on the TV in the middle of some program that looks good I have it in the 30 minute buffer.


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## BrettStah

Oh well, it was worth a shot!

This reminds me of the sporadic problem with the time drifting on DirecTivos... took a long time (too long) for DirecTV to acknowledge the problem, and it has occurred again once or twice at least since they initially fixed it. It appears to be related to receivers that get local channels off of the 119° satellite. If both tuners were on channels from that satellite, the clock would drift, sometimes winding up over a minute slow. Then when it would switch channels (late, of course) to channels on another satellite (like 101°) the time would re-sync correctly, but the recording would wind up a minute or so short.


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## Mark Lopez

Here is where it happened to me http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121914


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## Chris Gerhard

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *This shows how much you don't know.
> 
> I did absolutely nothing. Wasn't even using it. Haven't in probably a week or more. Last time I used it the Favorite Channels we're there, last night they were gone.
> 
> I haven't watched any recorded shows. I haven't changed or added any Season Passes. I haven't altered it's recording habits in any way nor manually deleted or added any recordings.
> 
> And whining? You must have a very different Dictionary then the rest of us. I do believe I am reporting a problem. I do believe I now have the attention of TiVoOpsMgr, someone who may be able to do something about it. I do believe he is trying to help.
> 
> And what are you doing? Nothing. At least nothing that is of any value that can solve the problem. Unless you're a TiVo software/hardware engineer and not letting on.
> 
> Now please, let TiVoOpsMgr handle this. *


I am not stopping anybody from doing anything and I am happy to let anybody fix the problem that can. So that is an absurd request for me to let TiVoOpsMgr handle it. Show me where I have done anything to impede anybody from fixing it. DirecTV is responsible for the fix and I have read about 10 posts from you complaining about the problem including requests for DirecTV to acknowledge deliberately doing it or that there is a problem and since they haven't fixed it, at least respond to you acknowledging the problem. That reads like whining to me. If I had the problem on one of mine and not the others I would make an effort to determine what might be different with the affected unit. The bugs on DTiVos have always been fixed slowly including the reversed right and left audio when using the digital audio output that affected all units a couple of years ago. This bug is rare and so far the cause unidentified as far as I know. Reporting the problem is fine, I would have reported it if I had it as well. My posts acknowledge a problem that needs to be fixed and were to the point in my opinion.

Chris


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## BlankMan

You know, reading your other threads got me to wondering if the box looses it's list of channels I received from DTV and it thinks I don't receive a particular channel, it then removes it from the Favorite Channels list. That would be logical. So for some reason it loses all channels and then goes and removes them one by one from the Favorite Channels list. So the root cause may be something DTV signal/receiver related, due to a problem or glitch or on purpose, and not really a TiVo software problem.

But when this happens, it does not happen across the board, usually to 1 out of 4 DTiVo's, the other 3 do not loose the list, so that would say that particular DTV receiver is targeted.

<edit spelling>


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Chris Gerhard _
> *I am not... *


I'm trying to say this as nicely as I can, I don't care about your opinion, I don't care for your help. So, read between the lines.

TiVoOpsMgr is handling it, he just PM'd me.


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## Fustanella

That explains the hidden face on the avatar.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Fustanella _
> *That explains the hidden face on the avatar.  *


I don't get it? What does?

Actually not hidden, the camera adjusted the exposure based on the background, I just thought it fit the moniker. That's a un-retouched pic, it's surprising, the detail is there, just can't see it, gamma adjustment will bring it out.


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## neilaevans

Just wanted to add that I've had a similar problem twice within the last year...my DSR6000 has forgotten which channels it receives (and thinks it receives none), causing my favorite channels to disappear as well. The only way to fix it has been to go back and manually re-add all of the channels back to the "channels I receive" list.

As I said, this has happened twice in the last year, after working flawlessly for about a year before that. And no, standby mode is not used.


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## BeauB

I have had this happen many times and on at least two of my three DSR6000's and on my Sony SAT-T60. I have had it drop my favorite's list settings as well as my modified "Channels You Receive" list. It is very frustrating since DTV puts so many useless channels in the mix (like between ESPN and HGTV, all the stupid shopping channels, the religious channels, etc...)

BlankMan - thanks for pushing this issue with Tivo! I must have reset my fav's 10+ times on each box. It will be great if they come up with a fix!

Just to add - never use standby and I have seen this happen on a Tivo with no hack's/upgrades. I have left my vacation home with everything working just fine and then when I return in a couple of weeks the lists are blown away. Another time I was watching TV, surf the guide - selected a channel from the guide watched for a second and then pressed guide again to find an empty guide.


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## dbuchthal

I just ran into this exact same set of symptoms. There is a TiVo in my house that is seldom used. Today, I walked up to it and there were very few channels in the guide including none of my locals. After playing with it for a while, a few more channels and some more guide data showed up, so I changed over to one of the new channels that had reappeared. Five minutes later, that channel was no longer authorized and my guide had shrunk down to less than one screenful.


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## BlankMan

_*dbuchthal*_ that sounds a little bit different. What I'm seeing and a lot of other people are now also reporting is that the channels that are set up as Favorites when using the TiVo Live Guide on a DTiVo all disappear and the DTiVo then instructs you to set them up like they've never been set up in the first place.

Are you referring to the Favorite channels you set up when using the TiVo Live Guide? Do you get he same message on the TiVo as in my original post that started this thread?

If I set the Guide to display "All" channels or channels "You Receive", channels show up in the Guide, but when set it to "Favorites" the messages that thinks you never set them up is displayed.


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## dbuchthal

Ah, no, my problems were with the All Channels section of the guide. Basically, all my channels started disappearing from the guide. I found that cycling power seemed to fix things up for me, but it forced me to go through the satellite setup screen again on power-up.


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## Tutman

Just wanted to chime in to say it happens to me also way too often. I have two DSR6000s, one unmodified, one with 130hrs. Both units are always on (no standby ever), and are on a UPS. Both units are sitting side-by-side, and periodically one or the other will lose favorites. Happens to one machine or other at least every 3 months.

The last time it happened (a few weeks ago), I was on vacation. Only one unit lost the favorites list. I rebooted the machine, and favorites were still blank. My wife has to call-out the channel numbers from the other room (quicker than writing them down).


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## PJO1966

I had the same problem with my Hughes. It was the favorites list that was wiped out on two different ocassions. I never use Standby and use my DirecTiVo every day to watch and/or record shows. It seemed to happen when I was lax in hooking up the phone line for my monthly call.


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## BlankMan

It's good to see people crawling out of the woodwork as they say, and reporting the same problem, especially on unmodified units, that way it can't be blown off as modifying is the cause.


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## PJO1966

I don't know if my DVR could be considered "unmodified" since I upgraded the hard drive. Also, I hardly "crawled out of the woodwork". I first posted this problem back in January here then again in February here


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## Eben

It's been awhile since I've experienced similar problems (1 DSR6000 and 1 Hughes series 1). In my case I'd turn the TV on and hit the guide (which is set to Favorites) only to find it completely empty of channels or with just a few. However, I wasn't able to just go to set up Favorites because the channels were GONE from CYR! I had to "reset" the machines in order to get the channels back and then redo CYR and Favorites.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I don't know if my DVR could be considered "unmodified" since I upgraded the hard drive. Also, I hardly "crawled out of the woodwork". I first posted this problem back in January here then again in February here *


 What? You're taking offense to a phrase I used? Lighten up a bit.

And you first reported it back in January and February. Good for you. If it's still occurring for you then I would think you be glad to see this thread and the fact that it has now gotten TiVo's attention and *TiVoOpsMgr* is actively looking into it.

I don't understand the purpose of this post? Did you just feel the need to report that you were first or what?


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## PJO1966

I only post when I have a question or something to contribute to a thread. You'll notice that we registered at the same time and I have less than 30 posts. The main point of this post was to clarify that my TiVo was not necessarily unmodified. The rest of it was not to say "I was here first", but to point out that this problem has been documented in the past. I have not had a problem since I posted in February. I believe you should stop taking things too personally. My post had nothing to do with you and had everything to do with the problem at hand.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I only post when I have a question or something to contribute to a thread. You'll notice that we registered at the same time and I have less than 30 posts. The main point of this post was to clarify that my TiVo was not necessarily unmodified. The rest of it was not to say "I was here first", but to point out that this problem has been documented in the past. I have not had a problem since I posted in February. I believe you should stop taking things too personally. My post had nothing to do with you and had everything to do with the problem at hand. *


 My reference to _unmodified_ was not in reference to your post, it was in reference to *Tutman's* unmodified DSR6000. Your post shed no light as to the state of your unit, so how would I know?. Just because a post shows up directly after yours does not mean its contents is in answer to yours. I was concerned that TiVo may blow off the problem because my T60's were expanded, and the fact that it is happening on unmodified units was good news.

And this had been happening for a long time before I got feed up with it and started this thread. I did do a search before I started this thread to see if anyone had mentioned it earlier but I failed to see your earlier threads otherwise I would have just added to them. Maybe if your Subject had been more definitive, like this thread, the search engine would have found them.

I just thought I'd add some levity to the post by using that phrase but I see it fell on deaf eyes. 

And don't even get into post count, I obviously contributed more , especially in the DTiVo cooling arena.


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## TiVoStephen

We're still investigating this issue, both internally and with DIRECTV.

So far, the units that have presented themselves as examples have all been extensively modified units. I'm wondering if there's someone who has NOT altered their unit in any way who has experienced this recently? If so, please sent your 15-digit TiVo Service Number to me.

Thanks,
Stephen


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## BrettStah

A poster previously in this thread said that one of his DirecTivos is unmodified and has had the problems...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1281209#post1281209


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## BlankMan

*TiVoOpsMgr* first let me say thanks for your continuing effort. Per Aaron's suggestion, as of this post, I have connected the T60 that seems to be having the problem the most to different ports on the Multiswitch. I swapped this T60 with an unmodified HDVR2, so we'll see if it stays with the T60 or moves to the HDVR2.

Just for the record this is a Spaun 5802 less than a year old and I typically see signal strengths in the 90's to 100 with the Spaun set to no gain (0db).


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## stevel

I too heard from Aaron suggesting a change of multiswitch output. This makes no sense to me, but I suppose I can try it. (My multiswitch is built in to the dish.) The thing is, this problem does not show up on a predictable basis.

The problem unit does have an added disk and a TurboNet card.


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## alphawave7

Yep, this problem is ancient, but fortunately infrequent. My first experience recorded here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70022

All I can offer at the moment (away from my DTiVo's) is that both of mine are unmodified, both on a multiswitch, both have the problem every 5 months or so, never at the same time, but very close to each other..usu. within a week or several weeks of each other. It's randomness will prolly make this bug harder to squash. 

edit: Interesting to note that the above thread is about 1 year old...coinkydink??


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## BlankMan

*alphawave7* glad you referenced that thread, that shows it was happening with 2.5 code so it was an existing problem and not a 3.1 problem. I don't remember when it started for me exactly, the first few times I blew it off, then it became an annoyance, now it's unacceptable. It's happened to me 4 times now just since I started this thread, so that's 4 times in 2 months, way unacceptable.

*stevel* when did you hear from Aaron, today? Just wondering, he called me today. I'll try anything at this point to rule it out or narrow it down.


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## alphawave7

Hmmm..I hadn't considered the SW version angle..no worries,tho, since it doesn't seem to matter. My frustration is compounded by the fact that it behaves in clusters...I'll get zapped, reset favs, and get zapped again on the same rig a week later, then months of normal behavour. 
Somehow I think DTV wants me to see what new channels they've added,since I tend to whittle down my Favs and ignore all the other stuff. When I was zapped several weeks back, I discovered several channels I didn't know we had.


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## stevel

I had a message from Aaron on my answering machine yesterday.


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## boberonicus

My DSR6000 (modified to 105 hrs) also exhibits this problem from time to time. But I would caution the Tivo Ops Mgr to not assume any correlation between the problem and the modification. After all, it is logical to assume that people reading this forum are more likely to be the sort of people who would upgrade their Tivo. 

But the people not reading the forum, and still having the problem, aren't telling us about it. They've called Directv and rebooted their boxes. And since Cleatus doesn't even know that he could set "favorite" channels on the magic box, he isn't complaining, he just tells Brandine to pull the plug again. Or should I say "agin".


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## alphawave7

Cleatus and Brandine? 
Not an upgrade problem...both of my units are bonestock, with the only 'mod' being the SPS30S skip.


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## BlankMan

Update: My DTiVo #2 has lost most of the Favorite Channels I had set in the TiVo Live Guide, the only two that are left are:

374 BYU
376 NASA

Everyone off the 101 SAT is gone. Hope this might help *TiVoOpsMgr*


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## stevel

That has happened to me too, and the significance of the 101 satellite hadn't occurred to me before.


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## Dale Sorel

My unmodified DirecTiVo lost all of its Favorite Channels today


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## bocktar

I have a completely unmodified SAT-T60 and it completely forgot the "Channels I Receive" settings about a week ago.

It has done this a number of times before.

I do use standy.

The problem is very irritating, as I dislike it when TiVo tries to record wishlisted movies from channels that have commercials like TNN and USA (which I take away using the Channels I Receive list). Also, no matter how many times I tell TiVo I don't like shopping channel programming and religious programming, it eventually suggests and autorecords something if I don't remove the offending channels from the list also. I don't want to turn off suggestions though...I like the feature when the channel list is properly filtered.

If I tell TiVo that Channel # x is no longer received, it should consider it no longer received forever unless I tell it otherwise. Even if D* changes the entire channel lineup.


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## bocktar

It has happened again. 

Maybe I should program a really long pronto macro to go through and reset the list automatically! It's really just a long sequence of "enter" and "down" commands.

ARGH!


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## alphawave7

For tracking reasons...just to report I have never used 'Standby' on either unit.


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## alphawave7

Came home to a DTiVo stuck at 52% acquiring..System info said things are fine, downloaded guide fine lastnite. Did a system reset to complete the guide d/l..and blammo! Favs are all gone again. I'm too tired to screw with it tonight..good thing I have a few episodes of Reno911 to get caught up on. DTV..please fix this.


edit:speling


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## Tutman

Happened again overnight sometime between 11pm Friday and 8am Saturday. Nasa channel was the only one left in favorites. This receiver, it has been a few months since it has happened. I'll PM TivoOpsMgr to see if they are still interested in debugging it.


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## BlankMan

_*TiVoOpsMgr*_ it just happened again on my TiVo2 a T60 on Saturday 10/04. The only channels left are:

374 BYU
376 NASA
511 HBOL

Once again it appears all channels from the 101 SAT have been removed. This T60 is still running 3.1.0-01-1-011 software. (I now receive HBO, that's added since the last occurance.)

Is there any progress being made on this?


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## TiVoStephen

Folks, thanks for continuing to report this issue. We are still investigating (and I'm sorry that I didn't respond directly to those who wrote me to report this issue).

As our engineers investigate, one other question I was asked: Has anyone experienced this problem on a newer "Series2" Combo box (from HNS, Philips, Samsung or RCA) as opposed to the older "Series1" Combo boxes (from HNS, Philips or Sony)?

If your TSN begins with a 0 (001, 011 or 031) you have a Series1. If it begins with a 1 (101, 121, 151, 181) or 3 (301, 321, 351, 381), then you have a Series2.


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## Tutman

Anyone with a Series 2 DTivo with this problem? Anyone...? Anyone...?

I've got two Series 1's and it happens on both about every 3 months. *TivoOpsMgr*, could it be caused by a memory leak or something else, where a preventative reboot every couple months might get around the problem? I've got both units on the same UPS, and neither unit gets rebooted.


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## tivoreno

Happened to my Hughes series 1 sometime after midnight last night. Woke up to almost no channels "available". Last successful call Tuesday Oct 7 8:14 am; Guide data to "Oct 8"; favories were gone. I restarted the unit and all channels are back, Guide data now "Up to Sun, Oct 19". Favorites still gone and channels I receive set to all channels.

Edit: To do list shows "none scheduled" for all programs. I better not miss the baseball playoffs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Smiles

The same thing happened to my Hughes series 1 sometime between last night and this afternoon.

My favorite channels list was cleared.

The list of channels I receive was screwy - I was missing a bunch of the Music Choice channels, for instance. Just gone.

My to do list was cleared. The recording history said that none of my shows could be recorded because the guide data had changed (or was deleted or some message to that effect).

I had the message that said I only had 1-2 days of guide data when I went into any Pick Programs to Record area.

I went into the Satellite Dish Setup and checked the signal strength on the transponders. My locals were all 100, the rest ranged from 88-95 with the exception of transponders 30 and 32, which were in the high 70s. (This has been typical for me for a while now, so the signal strength was not unusual.)

But the really bizarre thing was that while I was testing the signal strength, the TiVo would 'lock up'. I couldn't use the arrow keys to switch transponders, or even get out of the menu. I had to hit the TiVo button to go back to the main menu, then navigate back to the Satellite Dish Setup to test more transponders. I could get through 3-8 at a time before it locked up.

After running through all this, I decided to reboot the unit. It came back just fine, although I was still missing my favorites and to do list. But everything else was functioning fine.

My other units (an HDVR2 and a DSR6000) didn't experience any problems. It is usually the Hughes that loses the list the most, although I'm not sure why. Both the Hughes and the Philips have been upgraded to single 120GB drives, but that's it. (I don't think that's considered 'extensively modified', but what do I know?)


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## BlankMan

*TiVoOpsMgr* it just happened again on my TiVo1 a T60 on Wednesday 10/08. (TC was down so I couldn't post this then.) It's still running the 3.1.0 software, not the b and the last reboot was ~10 days before that.

This time there are no remaining channels and I get the message to set it up like it's never been set up before. This is very annoying.


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## paksen

Well I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one experiencing the problem. I wouldn't have come looking for a solution if it wasn't for the fact that I missed West Wing on 10/8 due to this burp.

Paks
Philips 6000


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## BlankMan

*TiVoOpsMgr* This is getting a little ridiculous. My TiVo3 unit a SAT-T60 running 3.1.0b-02-1-011 just lost all its Favorite Channels again. Not only did it lose all it Favorite Channels, it lost most of the Channels I Receive, the only one left are:

125 128 130 134 135 138 140 142 145 148 170 
374 379 411 426 432 455 456 511 652 849

Now, TiVo1 & TiVo2 both SAT-T60's and TiVo4 an HDVR3 are all fine, and all 4 of these units are connected to the same Spaun multiswitch and the same dish.

TiVo4 an unmodified HDRV3 now running 3.1.1b-02-2-151 rebooted itself last Friday and sat at the Welcoming Powering Up screen until Sunday when I caught it. This unit has been problem free before that. All these units are on a UPS.

You have been aware of this problem for 4, close to 5 months, it has been going on for a long time before that, how long do you expect your customers to put up with this before you come up with a solution?


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## RonP

TiVoOpsMgr - This just happened to me, too. Totally virgin DSR6000. S/W v3.1.0-01-1-001. Last call 10/15 12:58am.

All Favorite Channels were gone and the Program Guide said that I needed to go set them up again. Everything in the To-Do list was cancelled because the shows weren't in the program guide.

Here's a clue...It likely happened at 6:14pm PDT. TiVo was recording Junkyard Wars on TLC and Good Eats on FoodTV. When I got home around 8:30pm I went to play JYW and noticed that it was cut off at the 14 minute mark - but it was still on the channel. I hit Guide, which I had set to display Favorites, and it was blank - except for the error message telling me I needed to set it up, again. Good Eats was cutoff, too.

I've rebooted (didn't help) and am currently in the process of rebuilding my list. Argh. Glad I caught it tonight and not Thursday night!

This is real!


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## boberonicus

Just lost all the favorites on my DSR6000, running 3.1.0-01-1-001 . It's been nine weeks since this last happened. My primary gripe is that I keep a fairly long favorites list and it takes me a long time to set it all up again.

My assumption is that there is no plan to fix this problem. The DSR6000 is a legacy product and the bugmeisters are probably focused on current products.

Robert Fenerty


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## ebonovic

Add my #2 unit to the list of victims.

Last night around 11:00pm CST is when it occured.

A reboot repaired it, but now I have to go back and re-setup the channels I recieve.

Where is this stored? Hard Drive or Access Card?


----------



## BlankMan

I was informed a little over a week ago that TiVo was able to reproduce this problem. TiVo has contacted DirecTV and informed them of this bug and it is my understanding that DirecTV has to tell/ask TiVo that they want it fixed. 

So the ball is entirely in DirecTV's court as to whether or not this will be fixed. My guess is that the shoddy way DirecTV operates when trying to deal with then regarding any problems with their DirecTV Receiver's with TiVo they will probably never address and correct this problem. I'd love to eat those words....

Maybe we could all contact DirecTV and ask them to get it fixed but from past experience asking DirecTV to do anything is pretty much useless.

I'm going to continue to post all my events here just in case anyone at DirecTV is inclined to read this.


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## litzdog911

Blankman:
Thanks for continuing this thread. My one-year-old Sony T60 had never had this problem until yesterday. At about 4:40pm PDT on October 23 something happened to my Channels Lists (see below).

I will call also DirecTV to complain about this and reference the fact that there is a fix that Tivo can implement.

Reviewing this thread, some common clues might be:
* it does seem like the problem is limited to Series1 DirecTivos. 
* Modifications don't seem to be factor because folks are reporting problems with unmodded boxes (mine only has an upgraded hard drive). 
* Multiswitches might be a factor. I'm using a 2x4 multiswitch and don't have an oval dish. 
* Time-since-last-reboot might be a factor. My box rarely crashes, I don't use Standby, and it's connected to a UPS. That last time my box rebooted was after getting the 3.1 software update (from 2.52) a couple of months ago.

Hopefully with enough pressure we can sway DirecTV to address this problem.

==========================================
Here's what happened to me yesterday:

My DirecTivo "forgot" nearly all of its channels. When I turned it on and displayed the Guide, only PPV movies and a few other channels were available (like Discovery Science). Very odd. And it didn't matter if I set the Guide Options to "Channels I Receive" or "All Channels". Also, most channel logos were missing in the "Now Playing" list. And all of my Season Passes showed as "nothing scheduled" in the To Do List, expect for an upcoming BMW 5-series infomercial due to record on Saturday.

Thinking that perhaps I'd gotten the new 3.1.1b software update, I checked my System Status and found that I had not gotten any software updates. I reset my DirecTivo anyway.

Thanksfully, resetting the receiver brought my channels back. And, after a couple of hours, my To Do List was again populated with scheduled recordings for my Season Passes.

Here's a link to another thread I started before discovering this one:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139455


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## BlankMan

litzdog91, thanks, and nice job of summarizing.

Let us know how your conversation with DTV went. Getting them to understand the problem is the first hurdle, getting them to believe you, a lowly customer (no offense intended) that TiVo has a fix seems insurmountable.


----------



## Mike Bateman

> _Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr _
> *Folks, thanks for continuing to report this issue. We are still investigating (and I'm sorry that I didn't respond directly to those who wrote me to report this issue).
> 
> As our engineers investigate, one other question I was asked: Has anyone experienced this problem on a newer "Series2" Combo box (from HNS, Philips, Samsung or RCA) as opposed to the older "Series1" Combo boxes (from HNS, Philips or Sony)?
> 
> If your TSN begins with a 0 (001, 011 or 031) you have a Series1. If it begins with a 1 (101, 121, 151, 181) or 3 (301, 321, 351, 381), then you have a Series2. *


I have a Hughes DirecTiVo Series 2 and my symptoms are a little different. I don't use the favorites so I don't know if they are broken. However, I do use the "Channels I receive" option. What I'm seeing is that channels I've turned off, come back. What is even more strange is that the channels involved are all shopping channels. I've turned off GEMS, CSHN, HSN, etc. Within hours they start showing up again in my channel listing. Nothing else shows up except the shopping channels. I find that very odd.

And irritating.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Mike Bateman _
> *I have a Hughes DirecTiVo Series 2 and my symptoms are a little different. I don't use the favorites so I don't know if they are broken. However, I do use the "Channels I receive" option. What I'm seeing is that channels I've turned off, come back. What is even more strange is that the channels involved are all shopping channels. I've turned off GEMS, CSHN, HSN, etc. Within hours they start showing up again in my channel listing. Nothing else shows up except the shopping channels. I find that very odd.
> 
> And irritating. *


 I think I've heard that DirecTV does this on purpose, like when new channels are added so that you get them, but also maybe to put those shopping channels right back in your lineup. Don't quote me on this, like I said I heard but really didn't pay that much attention to it because I wasn't having the problem. I think it's that people suspect DirecTV of doing this but of course DirecTV is very hard to get information out of and would probably never admit to it.


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## mkdevo

hello folks,

i started a thread here a few days ago, and was ultimately directed to this thread, though it doesn't seem like anyone's having the same problem as me. here's what i posted in the other thread:



> *HELP!! All of my Season Passes read 'None Scheduled' (HDVR2/3)*
> 
> hello all -
> 
> all of a sudden yesterday, all of my season passes read 'None Scheduled' in the To Do list, and they all say 'no upcoming episodes' when i look at them. i tried rebooting yesterday when i first was made aware of this, and when i went back into my To Do list, it said something about some guide data not available, the rest will be there within 24 hours. it said that in a black box at the bottom of the screen.
> 
> that message is now gone, but the SP's are still messed up. when i press Guide, i can scroll through channels and see what's on, so it looks like all the data is there, but if i try to pick programs to record, by title, there's a very limited number of titles listed, and i can't find any of the shows i want in there.
> 
> anyone know what's going on here? i forced a phone call, and it was successful, but did nothing.. thanks in advance..


the message that i spoke of there is now back (and this hasn't fixed itself yet).. i grabbed a screen of it and attached it so you can check it out.. anyone have any clues?? TIA.


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## mkdevo

bump... anyone?


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## khark

One of my Philips 6000 Directivos did this a couple of days ago. This is 4 or 5 times over the last year or so.


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## kenr

I own four Series 1 Direct TiVos. Yesterday one of them, a DSR6000, showed only about 20 channels in the program guide: the music channels and a few specialized corporate channels. It resulted in all of my Thursday night programming not being recorded because the shows were no longer in the program guide. After rebooting the unit, all channels came back.

I assume this is just another case of what people are reporting on this thread.


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## Mark Lopez

As I mentioned earlier, both of my series 1 DirecTiVos do this periodically. One did it again sometime in the last few days (just noticed yesterday). The favorites were all gone and the Channels I Receive were all checked. This doesn't happen that often, but it's a PITA to have to keep setting it back up.


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## jbalfour

I guess I will add my story to the thread.

I have two Hughes GXCEBOTs. One that is untouched, and one that has a hd upgrade. The one that is untouched occasionally resets the channels I receive to all channels. I do use Standby. The modified GXCEBOT has not done this. The modified GXCEBOT lost all its guide data on Sunday night. I ran Setup again (did not reboot or power down) on Monday, and the guide came back. All other settings appear to be intact, and I did not have to wait for the guide data to repopulate. It was instantaneous.

Losing the 'Channels I Receive' is an annoyance, but losing the guide data made me lose a lot of recordings.


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## jburst

Add me to the list of people affected by this bug. I have a series 1 Hughes dtivo, and last night I came home to:
* A to-do list that looks like swiss cheese ("X is no longer in the program guide")
* No video at all on local channels or premium channels (HBO, etc)
* A completely unhelpful DirecTV rep on the other end of the phone.

Rebooting left me with:
* Video restored on all channels
* To-do list still cheezy
* A "channels I receive" list with everything selected
* No more unhelpful DirecTV rep

I manually reset the "channels I receive" list, and manually added back a few programs which were supposed to record in the next few hours (through the recording history, selecting "record this episode also").

By morning my to-do list was back to normal.

*Hey DirecTV, you listening?* If you have the software fix from TiVo, send it over!


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## Tutman

Blankman, any word on what you were told from Tivo about them being able to reproduce it? I want to know if there is some kind of workaround in the mean time, like rebooting the receiver at least once a month. There have been no responses from anyone that this happens on a Series 2. It does seem to me at least that it happens to both of my receivers about every 2 to 3 months. I never reboot them, and both are on a UPS. I guess in the mean time, I'll go ahead and reboot them once a month.


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## BlankMan

Well it happened again, on TiVo1, turned on the TV and had the message on the screen that I wasn't allowed to view that channel, call DTV, and it was one of the basic channels. So I looked and sure enough, all my Favorite Channels were gone again, and 75% of The Channels I Receive were gone too! All that were left were:

215 374 376 379 400 401 403 405-411 413 416-420 425 426 438 439 455 456 511 589 610 625 631 655 703 720 723-725 728-732 740 742-748 753 845-849

Most of which I can't view anyway! Then I got the message "Acquiring Program Guide Data from Satellite. Some data available now. Full data in 1-2 days." So I checked my recording history and sure enough it missed recording some programs because they were no longer in the guide, and more are schedule to NOT be recorded for the same reason, until the guide data catches up.

*TiVoOpsMgr,* this has become unacceptable and it seems to be getting worse, not better. Now it's affecting the units ability to record programs, it's whole one and only purpose in life. More and more people are posting about losing channels, losing guide data which is screwing up their SP's to the point where they have to delete them and reenter them to get them back. It was annoying when it lost Favorite Channels and one had to put them back, but now it's failing to record.

How does DirecTV expect to sell DVR's when word is going to get around that they are not reliable? And your names on them too so it will reflect on TiVo also. All we need is some reporter to get a hold of this information and interview a few people that are having problems and there we go again, another slam article. We (and you) don't need that.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get DirecTV to address this and be a little more forthcoming with information that they are taking it seriously and will fix it.

When a TiVo can't do it's thing, record, because of a bug like this, it becomes just another high tech boat anchor.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *Blankman, any word on what you were told from Tivo about them being able to reproduce it? I want to know if there is some kind of workaround in the mean time, like rebooting the receiver at least once a month. There have been no responses from anyone that this happens on a Series 2. It does seem to me at least that it happens to both of my receivers about every 2 to 3 months. I never reboot them, and both are on a UPS. I guess in the mean time, I'll go ahead and reboot them once a month. *


 No, no advice was given. I doubt rebooting once a month will help you, my unit that just acted up was only up for 8 or 9 days, I did some maintenance on it last weekend (backup after 3.1.0b). I'm having it happen more often then you and this last time it missed some shows I wanted, that is unacceptable. I PM'd TiVoOpsMgr to check my latest info so we'll have to wait and see.


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## alphawave7

Was just curious if DTV has added any new channels recently..are the guides changing in any way? (I rely on my season passes so much, I don't notice the guide much anymore).

Edit: The NFL channel was recently added...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=141527

I suspect the guide update may be the culprit. Damn..I'm scared to turn on the tele, now.


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## Tutman

> I suspect the guide update may be the culprit. Damn..I'm scared to turn on the tele, now.


This may be the trigger, but definitely not the cause. If it was the cause, it would happen to both receivers at the same time. Mine seems to be one, then the other, with the frequency approximately the same, but may be a month or two apart. I wish I would have written down the dates of everytime it has happened.

I haven't lost guide data like you, Blankman, but then I haven't had the problem yet since getting 3.1.0b.

I just want to know if there is a workaround. If Tivo has replicated and fixed the problem, then let us know what to do in the mean time. It's getting VERY frustrating. I'm not going to call D* and educate some poor kid, just for him to suggest rebooting the receiver. We've been asked for our help in isolating instances, which several of us has done, then a glimmer of hope that they might know what the problem is, then silence.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *This may be the trigger, but definitely not the cause. If it was the cause, it would happen to both receivers at the same time. *


 That's true because it never has happened to more than one of my receivers at at time. But do all receivers get the new channel update at the same time?


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## BlankMan

Ok I came home tonight and TiVo3 had both tuners tuned to channel 278 and it was telling me 'Channel not available'. I looked in the Favorite Channels Guide and the only channel there was 278, but I couldn't view it. I went and looked at Channels I Receive and these were the only ones left:

279 299 300 301 307 308 311 315 325 327 329 331 333 335 339 350 351 376 400 403 408-410 439

It's been up for over 10 days so it wasn't caused by a reboot. Once again it has failed to record programs because it lost it's guide data. There's programs tonight that it is suppose to record but it says it won't because they are no longer in the Guide Data. Once again I get the message: "Acquiring Program Guide Data from Satellite. Some data available now. Full data in 24 hours." The only difference is this one says 24 hours, yesterday TiVo1 said 1-2 days.

*TiVoOpsMgr* does this have anything to do with DirecTV rolling out new channels? Two different units in two days seems too much of a coincidence. Is DirecTV just going to be mum on it because they know it happens but they still have to do it so they just do it anyway? Ta' H*ll with the customer?


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## TiVoStephen

Folks, I'm sorry that I don't have much to report. We do have engineers investigating the issue and are in contact with DIRECTV regarding this issue. I'll ask for a status report tomorrow and let you all know what I find.


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## alphawave7

I just posted the above because it's the only pattern I can detect when *my* DTiVo's do this..seems to be within several days of the guide getting a new channel added. I've got poor memory of these things, but I recall Fine Living (if that's what its called??) being added when I had this problem, and now NFL and a small flurry of reports..so I can only surmise it's more than coinkydink. Sorry Blank has it so bad(two fer three), but his persistence may get this fixed, which would be nice, indeed.


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## hookbill

Wow, this has been reported since May and now we are in October and the best TiVoOpsMgr can say is "they are working on it"? I got to askwhat are you working on it with, a monkey wrench?

This has happened to my GXCEBOT twice in the last month! Oddly enough it hasn't happened to my HDVR3 at all, and I hope to God it doesn't or else I'll really be P.O.d. 

Come on DTV lets show a little attention here! 6 months worth of complaining and you can't fix it? That is not good customer service!


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## cvarner

Another newbie here....
Same problem with Favorite Channels List disappearing. This happened a few times over the summer on my T60, and I thought it had to do with a lightning strike down the street from me. It just happened again today, and researching the problem brought me here. I called Sony and they told me to do a "clear and delete", which is not an acceptable option. After reading through all the messages in this thread, I can't believe it hasn't been addressed after having been documented for almost a year! This is ridiculous. Aaarrgghhh.


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## coorsflash

Twice over this past summer this has happened to me. Both times when I went away on vacation. I would come back and hit my list for shows to watch and.....nothin. All my shows didn't record. both times i noticed that when I would hit the tivo button the screen would go black, just for a second, before it would bring up the menu. It normally doesn't do this, which is why it got my attention. I don't know if this will help TiVoOpsMgr but I thought I would post it in case anyone else has noticed this. 

But just like everyone else, all my channels were gone and i had to reboot. It's an unmodified Sat-t60. I got a new Hughes series 2 today and was thinking of putting it in the bedroom, not the main tv room, because I heard that series 2's did not have as good a picture quality as the series 1's. After reading all these posts I'm starting to think it might be worth it if it means survivor and CSI, and friends, and alias, etc. etc. gets recorded.


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## mlipscom1959

I too have this same problem every month or so. It is very annoying. It happens to both my Tivo boxes, but never on the same day. I've given up on calling Directv. They work from a script and you cannot have any problems that vary from their script or they cannot help you. (please reset you box. Please remove and reinsert the access card, blah blah blah) I can tell you I am sick to death of re-entering channels I receive--I could puke.


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## malixsys

I have a problem that might be related. I always remove shopping channels from the channels I receive list. I never use them, and if I need to, I can see them by changing the guide to all. BUT some of them keep coming back! For example, I keep having to remove 228 GEMS from the channels I receive! Is this a DirecTV gimmick so I will HAVE to see those channels? Anybody else have a problem like that?


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## PaJo

3 units were untouched, one has a hard drive added, all are put on standby when not is use. The problems only started a few months ago.

All four have shown similar problems with the "channels you recieve list " being changed - none at the same time, it's as though DTV is sending updates to add/remove channels and on a few occassions all the channels are lost except for PPV , I need to re-boot to get back the locals etc. and then the "channels you receive" list appears to be reset to include all the channels. I assummed it was DTV resetting things trying to encourage me to upgrade or sign up for NBA/ NHL, whatever they are pushing at the time. We have also experienced going to a regular channel and getting the message we must call DTV to gain access, usually a reboot fixes this but the "channels you receive list is always screwed up when these problems happen. We do not use the "favorite channel list" so I can not confirm that list is being screwed as well. If it only happens once in a while it is not unbearable, but when two or three units do it the same week it is frustrating manually changing everything back again. 

I know DTV can reboot the Dtivo, one time I had a problem and the CSR rebooted the Tivo for me, we keep all of our receivers upstairs feeding into a switching unit,, I was talking to the CSR while downstairs and she wanted me to reboot the one system - I told her I must go upstairs to do that and asked her to wait- when I got upstairs it was already rebooting - I told the CSR that and she siad "yes I did that from here" Being a cynic I suspected it is DTV these problem for some purpose, perhaps forcing everyone to upgrade, much like Microsoft use to "break" things to get people to upgrade to the products they wanted them to use ( documented in the DOJ VS Microsoft antitrust trial) or perhaps just a few CSR that are learning how to use the system.


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## Berto

I'll add my name to the list. I have a T-60 modified with a second drive, that lost all favorites three times in the past month. My other two units (one modified DSR6000 and one unmodified DSR7000) have never had this happen to them.

I was thinking it could be the beginning of a hard drive failure, but now that I've seen this thread, I'll hold off replacing everything. In the meantime I have to make a point of checking that unit daily, lest it get blanked again and screw up a bunch more recordings.

By the way, when I called D*TV Tech Support, the guy had never heard of this problem and could only suggest a reboot. When that didn't work, he tried to sell me the extended service plan!

Maybe we need to make a concerted effort to call in these problems to their tech support and escalate them to a supervisor. At least that way, we might get more visibility to the problem.


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## Eben

> _Originally posted by malixsys _
> *I have a problem that might be related. I always remove shopping channels from the channels I receive list. I never use them, and if I need to, I can see them by changing the guide to all. BUT some of them keep coming back! For example, I keep having to remove 228 GEMS from the channels I receive! Is this a DirecTV gimmick so I will HAVE to see those channels? Anybody else have a problem like that? *


That is SOP for DirecTV. The only way to avoid seeing them is to set up your Favorites list to include the channels you wish to surf and set the guide to Favorites. Channel "adding" doesn't affect the Favorites list.


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## stevel

This doesn't help when all of your received channels are REMOVED, and the favorites cleaned out as well, which is what this is referring to.


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## cvarner

In my T60, my Favorite Channel list went away and my Season Pass shows were not being recorded, but my Channels You Receive list was still there (albeit with channels I had previously removed). Strange.


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## RonP

cvarner - 

Welcome to our club. This problem has been around a while and more and more people are experiencing it (or are reporting it). So far all we've heard from TiVo is that they are "working on it". That's not exactly the response I'd expect for a "data loss" bug that appears to be fairly common.

It might be time to dust off the old VCR  for when I'm out of town.


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## laxet

I'm new here, & just read this thread. I would like to add myself to the list of people experiencing this problem. I have a Phillips DSR6000. This happened to us for the first time about a month ago. We came home from the Miramar Airshow & found the problem, so it occurred either on 10/16 or 10/17. We tuned in to a local station & it wasn't available. This was odd, because the unit was on a station that we don't watch. 

At first, it looked like only the foreign language channels were there, including the latino HBO (there were more, we discovered later, like a couple of Showtimes). We called DTV, & eventually they had us reboot the unit to return the stations we subscribed to. It wasn't until later when we checked the to do list that we realized that nothing was recording (or going to record). We had to (we thought) go through our 40 some season passes & schedule them to record again.

A glitch, we thought. Then it happened again this weekend. Instead of calling DTV, I just did the reset to bring the stations back. My mother has the same unit, but has not experienced this.

We do not use the channel lists & do not use standby.


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## wired711

Greetings fellow disappointed and frustrated TiVo users. We have two unmodified Hughes GXCEBOTs. Our "Channels You Receive" list on both TiVo's have been wiped out at least 3 or 4 times over the past 3-6 months (not at the same time if I remember correctly). Right now they have both lost their lists and I haven't even bothered to set up the lists yet again and until I do I'll have to keep paging through all those PPV and Sports packgage channels and other ones we don't get. We've also noticed on at least 3 or 4 times over this period that the available channels were down to just about 1 page worth. Like others it took a reboot to get them back. We never made the direct connection between this and season pass programs not being recorded but hearing others mention got me thinking and it probably explains why on a number of occasions season pass shows didn't get recorded as scheduled.

I haven't yet bothered to call DTV about this which would no doubt get the standard scripted responses everybody else gets. In the spirit of someone else's suggestion recently... probably the best thing to do is immediately ask for a supervisor (although the technician (rep) will probably insist knowing what the issue is first and you'll have to explain it all and risk getting the usual brainless time wasting suggestions). If lucky enough to get to the supervisor, explain the issue to them and ask them to please visit this thread so they have a clue as to just how many people are reporting this issue (and how many other people are probably experiencing the same thing). If nothing more, perhaps they could at least train their reps on the existence of this issue so they could be aware of it and tell folks it's a known issue and "we are working on a solution" (you know the same thing we've been told in this thread for way too long without a solution). Still, it's a less insulting reply than some rep acting like its the first time they've heard the issue and them barely having a clue as to what the caller is talking about. Better yet, maybe the caller could convince the supervisor to independently contact their supervisor and/or TiVo about it to bring more pressure to bear on a solution (imagine that).

Having DTV handle the first level support for DirectTivo units is no doubt not allowing enough information to get directly to TiVo to work on a fix. Anyway, If I try this I'll certainly report back and let you all know what kind of response I'm getting. This is really hurting TiVo's reputation since it's faltering on the very thing in life it was designed to do - record programs we've selected without worry or hassle.

Good luck to us all.
Cheers,
Doug


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by wired711 _
> *Having DTV handle the first level support for DirectTivo units is no doubt not allowing enough information to get directly to TiVo to work on a fix. Anyway, If I try this I'll certainly report back and let you all know what kind of response I'm getting. This is really hurting TiVo's reputation since it's faltering on the very thing in life it was designed to do - record programs we've selected without worry or hassle.
> 
> Good luck to us all.
> Cheers,
> Doug *


Yeah, keep us in tune Doug....but I don't believe that DTV isn't aware of this. TivoOpsMgr is, I assume their representative and while it hasn't apparently got to the DTV CSR's, he certainly knows about it.

How about it, TiVoOpsMgr. Are you still there? Your last report said you would ask for a status update and get back to us tomorrow. That was on November 5. Today is November 14.

I sure liked it better when TiVo controlled the units before DTV took over And I miss our Pony.


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## BlankMan

I PM'd TiVoOpsMgr yesterday evening, maybe we'll hear something.


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## Sir_winealot

BOINK!

Welcome to the machine. Turned on the old trustworthy T-60, and all me channels was blank! 

Why go into detail when we all know from previous posts exactly what happened to me?

Amazing how you take a 'ho-hum' approach to this thread until it HAPPENS TO YOU!

Around 4pm today, my TiVo went comatose...it missed recording Judge Judy, I had to do a re-start, and I'm a little bit PISSED OFF.

C'mon already DTV...this is getting ridiculous.

I'm thinking I should email DTV this entire thread...


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## BlankMan

> _ Originally posted by Sir_whinealot _
> *I'm thinking I should email DTV this entire thread... *


 Do it!
<added>
I PM'd TiVoOpsMgr. Again.


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## BlankMan

TiVoOpsMgr, here's another one:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143403


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by Sir_whinealot _
> *Amazing how you take a 'ho-hum' approach to this thread until it HAPPENS TO YOU!
> 
> Around 4pm today, my TiVo went comatose...it missed recording Judge Judy, I had to do a re-start, and I'm a little bit PISSED OFF.
> 
> C'mon already DTV...this is getting ridiculous.
> 
> I'm thinking I should email DTV this entire thread... *


Yep, I passed over this thread for months after all, the elephant was in THEIR house not mine!

Fortunately I haven't missed any shows because it's only happened to my GXCEBOT and not my HDVR3 where all of my important SP'S are. But that doesn't mean it won't happen there, hence my concern.

By all means please do forward this thread to DTV....and lets try to keep it on the front page because as this problem occures randomly to others who have ignored it in the past they will see it and post!


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr _
> *Folks, I'm sorry that I don't have much to report. We do have engineers investigating the issue and are in contact with DIRECTV regarding this issue. I'll ask for a status report tomorrow and let you all know what I find. *


Ok, it's November 17th now. Blankman has pm'd this guy twice, somebody else has started another thread and still no answer. Even a "I still don't have anything to report" would be decent at this time, although not very acceptable.

I just want an explanation. Sunspots. Somebody pushed the wrong button. Act of God. The devil did it!.......DTV, can you hear us????


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## Tutman

Since D doesn't acknowledge the fact that there is a known problem when we call, I believe I'll remind them between 9:00pm and 9:30pm EST (that's 6:00pm to 6:30pm for you PST people) on Wednesday, Nov. 17th. I wonder if there will be many of us inquiring about the status during this time


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## Dirac

Bah. Happened to my T60 (note sig: UNMODIFIED!) again o/a last Thursday. My favorites list was empty and my channels I receive list had all channels selected.

So, Wednesday at 9 pm? That would be Wednesday, November 19. Just want to make sure we all feel compelled to report the ongoing issue on the proper date.

EDIT: No, rebooting didn't fix it. Both DTiVos are on UPS's now so if it happens again I know it's not an outage problem either.


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## Tutman

My bad. Yes, I believe I'll be calling on Wednesday the *19th* at 9pm EST. Hopefully by 9:30, D gets the point


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## dvdude

Wait.....the clouds are clearing.....I see....my SAT-T60 has lost it's channel list!! The clock says 8:55pm, Wednesday, 19th....I see myself picking up the phone....<SNAP>.

Huh?? Wha?? Somebody say somethin'?


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## ClutchBrake

Add me to the list.

First occurence was Wednesday October 29th. Came home and many of my channels were missing. Rebooted and everything except my Favorites were back. However, my To-Do list was blank. After a few hours it repopulated.

Second occurence was today between midnight and 8am. Turn on my DSR6K to find I have absolutely no channels. Reboot and the all the channels in Channels I Receive are selected but my Favorites are gone.


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## Paul_D

This has happened to me (DSR6000 and T-60) soo many times now I've had to create a "cheat sheet" of what channels I receive, and then what goes into favorites on both units. The last occurence was on my DSR6000 last week. Whenever it happens I have a small curse fess at the idiocy of how long this has been allowed to go on. It's happened to me since before D* took over tech support (etc.), so this is a long-term problem over several software versions.

Always the same: all channels checked in channels I receive and a blank favorites list. One unit is on UPS and the other isn't. Happens more frequently on the one that is on the UPS.


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## BlankMan

Why don't some of you, or better yet all of you, PM TiVoOpsMgr and ask him what's up? On the 5th of this month he said he would get back to us with a status, today is the 18th, he posted on this board in other threads a number of times in between that time so he has been around here, not like he's gone on vacation.


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## wedgecon

This happened to me today at 9:12 PM PST. I base this on the fact that I only got the first 12 minutes of 24. I was watching a previously recorded show and all of the sudden it said I needed to input my parental control code because the recording was on a channel I no longer receive. Went to live TV and all of my channels were gone. I did a restart and my channels came back but , my "To Do" list had no longer had any showings for my season passes. I then went into season pass manager and changed the priority on one show and exited at which point the Tivo paused forever on the "please wait.." icon. After it was done pausing most of my to do list ccame back in. I am guessing that changing the season pass sort order forced some type of index rebuild. This same event occurred a few weeks ago and I thought it was just a fluke now I know better. 

I really hope this gets fixed...I am going away for a week next week and I do not want to miss my shows.


----------



## Tutman

I don't see what badgering TivoOpsMgr will do for us. He's kind enough to poke in here now and then. By badgering him, we'll be sure to never see him back. This is D's problem, and D needs to get this fixed. We're not Tivo's customer, D is. We just need to let D know how unhappy we've been for a real long time, and demand a resolution. They can throw their wait around on Tivo as much as they want. I'm just afraid they haven't done so. Hopefully the call "I" make tonight at 9pm, will let D know just unhappy many of us are.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *I don't see what badgering TivoOpsMgr will do for us. He's kind enough to poke in here now and then. By badgering him, we'll be sure to never see him back. This is D's problem, and D needs to get this fixed. We're not Tivo's customer, D is. We just need to let D know how unhappy we've been for a real long time, and demand a resolution. They can throw their wait around on Tivo as much as they want. I'm just afraid they haven't done so. Hopefully the call "I" make tonight at 9pm, will let D know just unhappy many of us are. *


 _Posted 05-nov-2003_


> _Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr _
> *Folks, I'm sorry that I don't have much to report. We do have engineers investigating the issue and are in contact with DIRECTV regarding this issue. I'll ask for a status report tomorrow and let you all know what I find. *


 Did you happen to read this whole thread, particularly this post:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1474409#post1474409

"D" has to ok it being fixed, TiVo does the fix, that comes straight from TiVoOpsMgr in a PM. He told me TiVo has been able to reproduce the problem and approached DTV with that information but DTV has to tell or authorize TiVo to fix it.

TiVo has more pull with DTV than any of us do, I'm still waiting for an answer to a ticket I opened on October 1st or 2nd, DTV keeps telling me to reboot my DTiVo that'll fix it! That is their canned answer and all they know. Good luck trying to get anywhere calling in. I doubt you're complaint will get past their 1st level support, I doubt if they'll even understand the problem, let alone get them to do anything about it. Look at the HMO petition for DTiVo's, falls on deft ears.

TiVoOpsMgr indicated he would check "Tomorrow" and get back to us, it has been many "Tomorrow's".


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## Sir_winealot

This is becoming so prevalent, perhaps this should be made into a sticky?? Heck, we're at 7 pages now....


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## morgan_chiu

Damn..was hoping I never had to check myself in here. SONY DirecTiVo SAT-60 did the same thing (fav channel listing disappearing) for the 1st time in 2 years. I set up the fav list and it disappeared again 3 days later. Keeping my fingers crossed on the 2nd reset..so far 4 days had passed.


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## a/vguy

I have had my Sat-60 for over a year now with no problems. However, in the last 10 days, I have lost My Favorites 3 times. Calling D-TV has been a joke. They tell me they will send system information, but nothing happens. My guide is completely blank each time but I can manually put a channel number in and get a signal. One final suggestion they gave was to delete and clear everything. That was not going to happen. 
To correct things, I went back into the menu and manually reset my favorites. They immediately came back with all information intact. This will probably last until the next data send. The CSR I spoke to said she had never heard of this particular problem, but also said there are over 1000 CSR's around the country doing what she does. I asked her to talk to her supervisors so the problem would be known to others. And on a side issue, my two week old HDVR3 has not been affected by any of this.
Does anyone have an e-mail address where we can, as a group, tell them of our problem? "Can you hear us now?"


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *I don't see what badgering TivoOpsMgr will do for us. He's kind enough to poke in here now and then. By badgering him, we'll be sure to never see him back. This is D's problem, and D needs to get this fixed. We're not Tivo's customer, D is. We just need to let D know how unhappy we've been for a real long time, and demand a resolution. They can throw their wait around on Tivo as much as they want. I'm just afraid they haven't done so. Hopefully the call "I" make tonight at 9pm, will let D know just unhappy many of us are. *


Unfortunately since I am a Pegasus customer I'm not even going to attempt it. Feel free to make a call for me Tutman.

Point is just who do we badger? I see your new to the boards so you probably don't know how things use to work around here. When we had problems TiVo Pony use to be here to listen and we got results. It didn't take 6 months worth of complaining either. Since DTV has taken over our DVR's we've seen a definite downturn in service, i.e. the sound drop off issue on the HDVR2. Although it was handled eventually it took a long time to get it taken care of.

Also, DTV customer service reps do come in this forum from time to time so I'm pretty sure they have brought the issue to there respective supervisors. We need as much help as we can get, this is not a minor problem and TiVoOpsMgr is the only one I can gripe to.

Btw, Blankman I'll also send TiVoOpsMgr a pm as well. Daily if I have to.


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## Tutman

Hookbill, I'm hardly a new member. I've been registered since May 2002 ( a year and a half ago - 6 months after you). I don't post much, only when I feel I can contribute to a discussion. I read here almost daily. I have no idea how the tag under my username will change from "New Member". Maybe its length since signing up, or maybe its based on the number of posts.

BlankMan complains that TivoOpsMgr doesn't answer when PM'd. I understand he said that he would get back to us and hasn't. Everyone sending PMs to him will cause him to just disregard all PMs. That's probably what he has already done.

My point is that D is the problem here. I have a lot of experience in the software licensing business, so I can easily guess how this is structured. D decided to stop giving Tivo monthly royalties for hosting and upgrades. Instead, D made an investment in setting up their own hosts, and pays Tivo for software maintenence, but no royalties. D has to tell Tivo that they need a certain fix, and they will probably pay Tivo to fix the problem with their maintenance dollars. Not only does D have to get Tivo to fix it, but Tivo has to actually figure out the problem.

I bet that one day I'll come home and find a new version installed, and a few months later start realizing that they actually fixed the problem. From what TivoOpsMgr said, it sounds like the ball is rolling, but it would sure be nice to hear they actually have a plan to address the issue.


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## BlankMan

Well I just cut-n-pasted all my posts that report a channel loss into an email prefixed by a short description and emailed them to [email protected] and I cc'd [email protected] (TiVoOpsMgr).

I will keep emailing DTV now until they say something constructive.

It would probably help if ya'll here would take the time to do that too.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *BlankMan complains that TivoOpsMgr doesn't answer when PM'd. I understand he said that he would get back to us and hasn't. Everyone sending PMs to him will cause him to just disregard all PMs. That's probably what he has already done.
> *


 I take people on their word and expect them to follow through when they say they are going to do something, that is all. Even if he said I have nothing new, there has been no progress, etc. that would be keeping his word.

But, what I now suspect all the more by his silence is that he has been told he can no longer address the matter even to the point that he can't tell us that he can't. DTV are, well you know, as far as getting any, I mean any, information out of them. My speculation is to prevent any competitors from using any deficiency as promo against them.

So I suspect DirecTV has censured TiVoOpsMgr and TiVo on the whole. Heck, TiVoPony can't even tell us when a switch is thrown anymore.


----------



## hookbill

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *Hookbill, I'm hardly a new member. I've been registered since May 2002 ( a year and a half ago - 6 months after you). I don't post much, only when I feel I can contribute to a discussion. I read here almost daily. I have no idea how the tag under my username will change from "New Member". Maybe its length since signing up, or maybe its based on the number of posts.
> *


Sorry, didn't mean to offend you in any way. Your right I didn't see how long you have been a member just the new member tag....which you can change yourself or after a certain number of posts.


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *But, what I now suspect all the more by his silence is that he has been told he can no longer address the matter even to the point that he can't tell us that he can't. DTV are, well you know, as far as getting any, I mean any, information out of them. My speculation is to prevent any competitors from using any deficiency as promo against them.
> 
> So I suspect DirecTV has censured TiVoOpsMgr and TiVo on the whole. Heck, TiVoPony can't even tell us when a switch is thrown anymore. *


I couldn't agree with you more, BlanMan. Something rotten appears to be going on.

I'll bet DTV knows what the problem is and wants to keep quiet about, heaven forbid you should put quality over quantity. Keep those sales going.

I did PM TiVo Ops Mgr (very nicely) about giving us some type of response. I'll be interested in seeing the responses, if any, folks get from DTV tonight.


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## Tutman

> _Originally posted by hookbill _
> *Sorry, didn't mean to offend you in any way. Your right I didn't see how long you have been a member just the new member tag....which you can change yourself or after a certain number of posts. *


No offense taken. I didn't realize you can modify that, which I have now done.

Blankman, I bet you're right about D zipping his lip. I hope I can get to someone tonight to find out the status. Not holding my breath. The next time this happens, I won't let support off the phone until I talk to everyone in the company. Between my two machines, its happened probably a dozen times in the last year. I did create a cheat sheet to set it back up, but that doesn't make up for the lost recordings. I've had to resort to setting up season passes on both receivers just in case one loses its mind.

I would like to get an accurate count of how many people this continues to plague. I'm sure that people who don't know about this board, thinks that the problem is only with their machine. Hopefully we keep this thread active with "Me too" that it stays visible - maybe even making it a sticky would help until the issue is resolved.


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## Tutman

*UGH!!!!!*

I cannot believe this, and I'm sure you won't either. I was planning on calling D tonight to find out the status of this BUG.

I went upstairs to watch some programs on my other receiver, and low and behold...*NOTHING* in the channel guide - NADA!!!!!!!!! At least my season pass recorded last night.

I'm calling right now, and I won't get off the phone until I get an answer. I'll count how many people I talk to.

Please. If anyone has this problem on a regular basis, please demand an answer.


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## loafing

I'm in the club now as well. I have two dsr6k machines and the main/older model got nailed last night. The only channels that were showing were on the sat 2 (nasa, etc). My other box was fine.

Both of these have been hacked - turbonet/elseed/drives...


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## Tutman

I just got off the phone...felt like I got somewhere. The first guy I talked to, I started talking way over his head. He said that he wasn't very familiar with the DVR, and wanted to transfer me to a senior technician. Good so far, didn't have to waste much time.

The guy I talked with, really knew the DirecTivos because he has one at home, but his is the Series 2. He said that he had heard of one other guy that reported the problem, and they weren't sure it was legit. He said the more people that called and reported the problem, the quicker it would get escalated. He was typing notes for a long time. The technician's name was Josh. Josh, that is how a senior support technician is supposed to do their job.

This time the problem was different. I'm not sure if it is because I now have 3.10b or not. The entire guide was blank - said I didn't have my Favorite channels set up yet. The favorites list was completely blank, the channels you receive had every single channel selected, and I no longer had access to local channels. Josh tried to resend that info, but said that it couldn't communicate with the receiver. I offered to reboot via the menu option. After reboot, my local channels were back, but favorites list was still blank, and channels you receive still had every channel selected.

If this has happened to you recently, please call it in per Josh's request. I was on the phone for less than 20 minutes.

Josh - you are the posterchild for customer service. You didn't fix my problem, but made me very comfortable that you were going to do what you could do to make it known that there is a problem.


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## Tutman

> _Originally posted by loafing _
> *I'm in the club now as well. I have two dsr6k machines and the main/older model got nailed last night. The only channels that were showing were on the sat 2 (nasa, etc). My other box was fine.
> 
> Both of these have been hacked - turbonet/elseed/drives... *


 Please call it into DirecTV. Talk to a senior technician familiar with the DVR. From what we know, only Series1 DirecTivos are affected, and it doesn't matter what hacks have been done. It appears all models of Series1s are affected.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *This time the problem was different. *


 It may look different with this occurrence but it's the same problem, I've had that derivation of the problem occur, it manifests itself in different ways. When this first started for me I didn't lose Channels I Receive and have to reboot to get them back, lately I do, so it's getting worse.

Ok, now that DirecTV is aware of the problem via your call, what's the next step? Are they going to research it and get back to you? Or did they just schmooze you and now you feel good but that's as far as it goes? (No offense intended but dealing with DirecTV things a lot of times go nowhere.)

Between your call and my email (and anyone else that will take the time to contact them) that I'm pursuing maybe they'll pay attention, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## BrettStah

My wife said she rebooted one of our Series1 Tivos yesterday because she got a "Channel Not Available" message. Is this what some of you guys are seeing too? The thread title for this thread is not as clear as it should be, if that's the case.

We've seen the "Channel Not Available" a few times, and a reboot has always fixed it. I had always blamed it on the fact that we tend to "overload" them with lots of wishlist items and the increased capacity.


----------



## Tutman

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *My wife said she rebooted one of our Series1 Tivos yesterday because she got a "Channel Not Available" message. Is this what some of you guys are seeing too? The thread title for this thread is not as clear as it should be, if that's the case.
> *


 That seems to be one of the symptoms as well. All the times that I've encountered the problem, I have lost all channels from "Favorites". I was very careful of understanding the exact state of the system this time before trying to fix it. In my mind the "Channel Not Available" is not the big problem, and therefore doesn't do justice for the topic. The problem is that we configure the system (which takes 10 minutes or more) and then one day magically it disappears. Others have reported that it misses a recording or two because of the problem. I can easily say that if I didn't catch the problem last night, it would have missed several recordings because all of my local channels were no longer accessible until I rebooted it.

The call I made last night to DirecTV - they didn't promise anything. I felt comfortable that they are acknowledging the fact that it is a problem that Tivo needs to fix, and was told that this will get the ball rolling.

I encourage everyone that experiences this problem, to please take the time to call DirecTV.

I know the next time it happens, I'll be back on the phone. They won't be able to play the "we didn't know" card with me twice. I know several people have said that they went through the proper channels too, but I don't know that for absolute sure.


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## BrettStah

I'll call the next time it happens...


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *My wife said she rebooted one of our Series1 Tivos yesterday because she got a "Channel Not Available" message. Is this what some of you guys are seeing too? The thread title for this thread is not as clear as it should be, if that's the case.*


 Next time before you reboot go into Setup and look at Channels I Receive and see if a lot are missing, if so, that 's the problem.

As for the Subject of this Thread, it was 100% accurate when this problem started. As the problem has progressed the total loss of channels started which shows up as them completely missing in Channels I Receive, my crystal ball was cloudy the day I started this thread so I wasn't able to see that and incorporate it into the subject.


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## BrettStah

I'll admit that since we don't use Favorites regularly, I lost interest in this thread awhile back. Glad I found it!

But I'm a little confused... I would have sworn that if I type in a channel number, it'll switch to that channel even if that channel isn't listed as a "Channels I Receive" channel. Is that not the case?


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *We've seen the "Channel Not Available" a few times, and a reboot has always fixed it. I had always blamed it on the fact that we tend to "overload" them with lots of wishlist items and the increased capacity. *


I'll guarantee that overloading wish lists or SP's is not the cause. My GXCEBOTD downstairs has 3 sp's and 1 wishlish item. If that is causing an overload, I'll fire up my VCR again right now .


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## RonP

For what it's worth, here's the response I received from reporting the problem (see my post earlier in this thread) to [email protected]

========================
Dear Ron,

Thank you for writing. We are sorry you are having technical 
difficulties. If you continue to have this problem, since it can be 
difficult to troubleshoot technical problems via e-mail, please call us 
1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance. One of 
our Entertainment Consultants will be happy to assist you.

Sincerely,

Mohammad
DIRECTV Customer Service
========================


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by RonP _
> *For what it's worth, here's the response I received from reporting the problem (see my post earlier in this thread) to [email protected]
> 
> ========================
> Dear Ron,
> 
> Thank you for writing. We are sorry you are having technical
> difficulties. If you continue to have this problem, since it can be
> difficult to troubleshoot technical problems via e-mail, please call us
> 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance. One of
> our Entertainment Consultants will be happy to assist you.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mohammad
> DIRECTV Customer Service
> ======================== *


ROFL.....If that isn't a typical canned response I can't help but wonder what is.


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## BlankMan

I got that response in the past also, when reporting something, I tried to get it through their head that they can't fix a software bug over the phone but they just don't understand. I've come to the conclusion that these support people are really really dense and do not understand the technology that they are paid to support -or- they are told to do that because 90% of the time the customer will get frustrated and just give up. It's all in closing calls so that they can get the J.D. Powers Customer Satisfaction Award. Yeah right.... 

*Brett* Yep you can and it is, because on a number of these occurrences, one I can remember in particular, I think I even posted it here, both tuners were locked on channel 278 with nothing showing and I got the box on the bottom of the screen that said something like you aren't authorized to receive this channel call DirecTV to add this, or something to that affect. I then looked in Channels I Receive and the list started at channel 279, so I could definitely tune to it but I couldn't see it.

Yep I did:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1500245#post1500245

You haven't read through the whole thread, eh?


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## BrettStah

Nope, haven't read the whole thing... just jumping in at the end, as usual!


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## ssandhoops

Just found this thread because my favorites list was blanked out yesterday. After reading through this thread, I've not seen anyone equate the problem to the daily call but in my case, this happened immediately after completing the daily call. My DSR6000 is not connected to a phone line, so I run a phone line to it every few weeks and force a call. At the end of yesteday's call, I happen to catch the update screen saying "updating data" just before it updated the "Last Successful Call" entry. Next time I brought up my guide, I found the favorites list had been emptied. So, is this just another catylst to the problem? Those of you having the problem often, perhaps you should disconnect your phone line and see if the problem does not occur when no daily calls are being made? Just a thought.


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## Mark Lopez

Lost my favorites *again* yesterday except for 376 (NASA). All 'channels you receive' were checked again too. This is starting to happen way too frequently.


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## Tutman

> _Originally posted by ssandhoops _
> *... this happened immediately after completing the daily call. ... At the end of yesteday's call, I happen to catch the update screen saying "updating data" just before it updated the "Last Successful Call" entry. Next time I brought up my guide, I found the favorites list had been emptied.*


 I've not been able to pinpoint it down this specific. Both of my units are hooked up to phone lines. When I notice the problem, I cannot tell how long ago it happened. It makes total sense that it would be during the "updating data". Since this usually happens only every couple of months to me, I don't think unplugging the phone line would help. Thanks ssandhoops for the additional clue. D and Tivo are you listening?


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## stevel

Yes, it happened to me again as well. The other things that happen along with this are that I lose all the local channels until a reboot and the guide index is trashed, causing shows to be dropped from the ToDo list. My wife is getting VERY irate (since most of the SPs are hers.)


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## stevel

I just got off the phone with DirecTV - again. The "TiVo specialist" I spoke with (Barron, ID #2660) said he could not find any reference in their system of a similar problem being reported! Supposedly, someone will investigate and get back to me. I was also told to call Philips, for what good THAT will do....

I would recommend that everyone who is experiencing this call DirecTV and make sure they file a "tracking report" on the problem. Otherwise it will just get ignored.


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## BrettStah

I'm calling now...


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## ebonovic

You can add me to the list.... One of my three did this Saturday -> Sunday night. There was a guide/service update at 2:00am.


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## BrettStah

I spoke with "Lucas" (didn't get his ID number though). He says (after I asked him) that he has heard of some issues like the ones I described. He gave me a 1-800 number to call directly to his department (the DVR support group I think) when the problem happens again, before I reboot it.


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## BlankMan

Just noticed this morning it happened again to my TiVo1, both tuners tuned to channel 841 and both saying "Channel not Available". Pulled up the Guide and lost all my Favorite Channels, it's telling me "This channel list has not bee set up", BS. The unit's been up for 6 days so it wasn't a reboot.

I looked in "Channels I Receive" and these are the only ones left:

173 196 271 276 371 374 379 411 412 432 455 456 583 590 627 635 719 740 789 790-793 847 849-851

Once again because of this problem this DirecTV Receiver with TiVo has failed to record programs because of this problem.


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## austinsho

And this is strictly a series 1 issue, right?


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## stevel

It appears to be a series 1 issue only, yes.


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## ntrprize

Yep, this happened to me the other day. What a PITA.


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## BlankMan

I think we've pretty much have been told that TiVo can do nothing about this, Brett linked my latest occurrence in a new thread and we got this from TiVoBill:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1543160#post1543160


> _Originally posted by TiVoBill _
> *I understand your frustration, but contacting them at the number they list in their e-mail is the best solution we can recommend. Like with any organization, enough voices have to be heard making a request before it gets above the noise of every day issues. *


 It just plain old *SUCKS!* that everyone realizes the problem exists yet DirectTV is totally unwilling to admit there is a problem and do anything to correct it.

I'll keep recording my occurances here though, it keeps a record of the on going problem.


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## steves

Just happened to me again (Hughes series 1)....

Also, all of my season passes are not recording. If I look through upcoming episodes, there are shows that "should" be recorded, but aren't. I even tried changing the setting to record repeats as well as first runs, but still nothing.

I had to go through all my season passes, and manually tell it to record all upcoming first run episodes by selecting each episode.

I called DTV, and the TiVo dept was closed for the day......


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by steves _
> *Just happened to me again (Hughes series 1)....
> 
> Also, all of my season passes are not recording. If I look through upcoming episodes, there are shows that "should" be recorded, but aren't. I even tried changing the setting to record repeats as well as first runs, but still nothing.
> 
> I had to go through all my season passes, and manually tell it to record all upcoming first run episodes by selecting each episode.
> 
> I called DTV, and the TiVo dept was closed for the day...... *


Steve, next time try changing the order of an SP, that causes it to re-calculate any conflicts and thus has worked for me in the past to get things back in the record list.

But DirecTV won't admit there's a problem...


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## BlankMan

This post in another thread might be of some interest to some of you. *crusador* says he works for DTV and is one of their TiVo Specialists. He is aware of this problem, lets see if someone on the inside can help.


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## BlankMan

Just noticed this morning it happened again to my TiVo1, both tuners tuned to channel 841 and both saying "Channel not Available". That is twice to this unit this week. 

I looked in "Channels I Receive" and this time it looks like all channels under 198 are missing and if 841 is missing I'm sure others are missing higher up also but this time there are a few too many still there for me to want to take the time to write them all down.

Once again because of this problem this DirecTV Receiver with TiVo has failed to record programs.


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## CTH

I'm not sure if this will help the dialogue, but it happened to me this morning.

But, I can pinpoint exactly the channel dump happened. During an 10:30am recording, I received only the first 10 seconds. Then, I received the "Do you want to delete?" prompt. So, am I correct in assuming that something happened at 10:30:10 to kill my channels list? I doubt the receiver would have tried to do a full satelitte info acquisition in the middle of a recording.

Poking around, I found all channels selected on "Channels You Receive," and my favorites list was empty.

I've called DirecTV to tell them of the problem.


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## Sir_winealot

I am so SICK of this happening....WHY TF don't they *FIX THIS?!?!?!?*

Happened *again* to me..._this_ time to my DSR6000. What a PITA.


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## Sir_winealot

Talking w/DirecTV now...they are *clueless!!!!!*

Guy keeps telling me it's a problem w/my multiswitch, or dish. Says there are "no other complaints logged" about this, and wants to send a technician out to check my system....

I'm really beginning to *hate* DTV...this is infuriating!!!!


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## Sir_winealot

*UnREAL!!!!!!*

I spk w/a supervisor who in turn spk/w his "special projects manager" who stated they've had "no other complaints," and that I need to "put my DTiVo's in standby mode" when I'm not watching them to prevent this from happening again.

He too then asked that I allow a technician to check my system.

They are *UNBELIEVABLE MORONS.*


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## stale

Ok, I just got this problem for the first time this morning. I read thru the thread here, and called into DirectTV. This is what I was told.

I talked to Andy (ID10006430) one of thier Tivo specialists, and after I gave a brief description of my problem (favorites gone, channels gone, todo gone), he quickly suggested that it was a power surge. I then indicated that many people (I said hundreds) were having this problem and I referenced this forum. He replied that he had not fielded a single call today with regards to this issue... AND they have *2* (count them... two) tivo unites there at work and they have never experieced this problem. He then made the statemetnt (and I am paraphasing) that even if it was hundreds of people having the issue, that may not be a big enought concern for them. He then suggested that it was not directtv, nor tivo software but the manufacture of the box (in my case hughes). I said from what I've gathered from this thread, Tivo may have found a fix and its up to DirectTV to ask for it and push it out to us... but he told me that they have absolutley nothing to do with the software (arrghhhh....).

So someone on this thread mentioned that this issue could be tracked, and he said there was no such option for me. The thing that pisses me off is that it didn't even sound like he queried the database to look for the original issue. I'm a programmer and I often have to seach for an old defect reports... it almost never is quick.

I would bet that hundreds of people have phoned in regarding this issue, and others have not yet. Each one that gets thru, gets a new defect entered that is never correlated with the others, thus DirectTV thinks there are a lot of unexplained isolated defects out there, that are not worth fixing.


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## Sir_winealot

> _Originally posted by stale _
> *
> I would bet that hundreds of people have phoned in regarding this issue, and others have not yet. Each one that gets thru, gets a new defect entered that is never correlated with the others, thus DirectTV thinks there are a lot of unexplained isolated defects out there, that are not worth fixing. *


And I would bet that you just hit the nail, on the proverbial head.

From my conversation with Einstein #1, and Einstein #2 last night, this is the exact feeling I 'hung-up' with....

Thing that bothered me, is that no matter how hard I tried to explain what was happening, I could tell that they both weren't really _listening_.......that they had already concluded "multiswitch/dish/access-card problem," and that *I* didn't know WTF I was talking about.

It was frustrating to say-the-least, and after having nothing but *good* experiences w/DTV in the past, _this one_ has truly chapped my arse...


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## RonP

Maybe a moderator could make a sticky thread so we could track this problem, give it more exposure, and collect some meaningful data. When someone experiences the bug they report:

1) Make/Model/Series/Software version of the TiVo
2) Day and time of the bug (several of us know this because our recordings were cut off when it happened)
3) Mode the unit was in (normal, standby, recording, etc)
4) Last reboot day/time
5) Last daily call day/time
6) Other observations/comments

No discussions. Leave that for this thread.

I have tons of experience convincing program and development managers that Bug X is more important than Bug Y and that they must fix Bug Z. A seemingly random data loss bug (no matter how catastrophic) that impacts only a handful of users is way down on their fix list. However, cut through the randomness to reveal a repeatable pattern or the simple steps to duplicate the bug, and they'll take notice - especially if it turns out that it could theoretically impact a large % of the customer base.

I've read earlier that TiVo has found and fixed the bug and is waiting for DTV to request the fix. I'm not convinced this is true. If it is, then maybe they've already done the analysis and determined that the only ones potentially affected are the few of us posting to this forum 

No matter, it's easy for us to collect the data and see if the conditions to duplicate it pop out.


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## pottedmeatproduc

CTH - I just returned from a few days away, and seem to have experienced a problem similar to the one described in this thread. Most of my channels had disappeared (including all local channels, plus many others). My season passes were intact, but no upcoming episodes were listed, and nothing had been recorded since late Friday night. That would mean that what went wrong happened some time Saturday morning, so that would correlate with the problem CTH had.

Resetting the DirecTivo box (mine is the old Hughes one, unmodified) got me back my chanells, but still no upcoming episodes are listed. The current channel lineup is correct, and I can manually jump ahead in the guide to record shows coming up say, Tuesday, even though these shows aren't being displayed in the upcoming episodes for my season passes. Also, these shows don't show up when I try to search by title. Anyway, I assume from the descriptions in this thread and similar ones that this info will slowly return over the course of the next day or so.

My thought is that if this same thing happens to many different users at exactly the same time, it might be useful to DirecTV to know this, and it might help them fix it (or even acknowledge it). Unfortunately, I can't pin down the problem for me this last time any more specifically than "some time around Saturday morning".


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## Lori

Exactly the same thing happened to me. I got home yesterday to find that the only channels in the guide were ppv and DTV promotional channels. I called DTV and they forced a reset, which restored FX and ESPN2. Then I rebooted the machine which restored the others. However, I still didn't have a functional "to do " list. I haven't checked this morning, though, so that might have resolved in the night.

I have recordings from Friday night through Saturday morning, too. Looks like this happened to all of us at the same time.


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## dukefan

Same here. It happened last weekend as well. I noticed it Sunday afternoon - so Sunday morning is probably when it happened here.


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## steves

This did not happen to me this weekend, however... when I got home from Thanksgiving, I found my circuit breaker had been popped. The only things running when I left were my computer, TiVo, alarm clock, and the porch light. I found this a little strange.

Not saying it has anything to do with TiVo, but my power was off, so "if" it happened to everyone last weekend, I missed out ;-)


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## SpankWare

By request from Blankman to comment on this issue, I have a few comments.

After reading all the posts, I can't help but make the following suggestion (based solely on suggestions for my complaints): Stop using "Channels I Receive" and "Favorites". Sounds silly right? Well, it's no more silly than telling me to use the TiVo style guide over the grid-style guide cause it's a little faster. That's not a fix, it's a workaround. So my suggestion would be, stop using the features that aren't working right for you. Man, that's annoying isn't it?

Seriously though, since I don't use favorites or anything like that I can't really say I've ever had this problem with my T60. Anybody who calls in needs to demand that a trouble ticket (of whatever kind DirecTV uses) be created for your complaint. You need to obtain a ticket number from their ticketing system that relates to that issue. You can then post that ticket number here if you wish to create a reference for subsequent callers to use. If the technician refuses to do any of the previous steps, demand to speak with his/her supervisor. Continue this practice until successful. If you reach a point where nobody will help you, demand to speak with the customer retention department as you feel that your problems are not being handled properly and you want to speak to somebody with more authority and power. Try all those things, then report back. I will look into doing the same, based on Blankman's request.

Another thing you should realize.... it's known that the people you need to be dealing with are DirecTV. While I think it's great there are people from TiVo here and willing to help, they in the end will be less likely to get the problem resolved. I realize TivoOpsMgr has apparently been somewhat helpful, but AWOL from this thread for some time. I understand why Blankman is so insistent on dealing with him, but I think it's safe to say that this avenue has been closed. You're only going to get satisfaction from DirecTV, so your efforts need to be focused there.


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## stevel

One cannot "stop using Channels I Recieve". This is the only way to let your TiVo know what channels are available for recording. The default set is always wrong, but the problem here is that something DirecTV sends out causes this list to EMPTY, making the TiVo think that none of the channels are available, and it removes all scheduled recordings from the ToDo list.

One can choose not to use Favorites, though for a long time this is what DirecTV recommended if one complained that unreceivable channels kept getting added to Channels I Receive.

I tried to get a "ticket number" from DirecTV when I called, but was told no such thing existed (to which I said to myself "nonsense!") I hate to say this, but it sure looks as if the CSRs are being encouraged to sweep this sort of complaint under the rug. After all, if it's not in the tracking system, it doesn't exist...


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## SpankWare

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *One cannot "stop using Channels I Recieve". This is the only way to let your TiVo know what channels are available for recording. The default set is always wrong, but the problem here is that something DirecTV sends out causes this list to EMPTY, making the TiVo think that none of the channels are available, and it removes all scheduled recordings from the ToDo list.
> 
> One can choose not to use Favorites, though for a long time this is what DirecTV recommended if one complained that unreceivable channels kept getting added to Channels I Receive.
> 
> I tried to get a "ticket number" from DirecTV when I called, but was told no such thing existed (to which I said to myself "nonsense!") I hate to say this, but it sure looks as if the CSRs are being encouraged to sweep this sort of complaint under the rug. After all, if it's not in the tracking system, it doesn't exist... *


One can avoid making any modifications to the system using the "Channels I Receive" setup option. I know, because I've done so on my T60 perfectly for more than a year. All my latest DSR7000's haven't touched that option, and I certainly didn't do that for the GXCDBOT that I gave my parents for XMAS 2 years ago (and neither have they). One can easily use a DirecTV DVR without ever messing with this option, or Favorites. I know, because I've done it. As a result, I have never experienced any issue with lost or missing channels on any of the DirecTV DVR units I own or have given as gifts.

As for the ticket number, we all know they're going to have a ticketing system. Press the issue, ask for supervisors, managers etc. until you get satisfaction or nowhere. If the latter, then move on to customer retention.


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## Sir_winealot

> _Originally posted by SpankWare _
> *One can avoid making any modifications to the system using the "Channels I Receive" setup option. I know, because I've done so on my T60 perfectly for more than a year. All my latest DSR7000's haven't touched that option, and I certainly didn't do that for the GXCDBOT that I gave my parents for XMAS 2 years ago (and neither have they). One can easily use a DirecTV DVR without ever messing with this option, or Favorites. I know, because I've done it. As a result, I have never experienced any issue with lost or missing channels on any of the DirecTV DVR units I own or have given as gifts.
> 
> As for the ticket number, we all know they're going to have a ticketing system. Press the issue, ask for supervisors, managers etc. until you get satisfaction or nowhere. If the latter, then move on to customer retention. *


Even if you don't mess with "Channels You Receive" or "favorites" this 'bug' can hit you. I too, hadn't set up either (don't use WL's & have "suggestions" turned off).

What happens, is you turn on your TV, and most _everything_ isn't available to you any longer ...my local channels? -Black screen, with a blue "Channel Not Available" banner across the bottom...HBO? Same-same.
ESPN too...

I didn't ake the time to see what channels (or how many) I still had available to me, cuz I KNEW a reboot would fix it...but there were still some channels (random) I *could* watch, ....but it seemed like 80% of my programming was "not available."

And then, of course, your Season Passes won't record.

Very annoying. But what bothers *me* the most, is hearing from DTV that the problem is "with my system," so they are currently NOT working to fix this.

How the heck do you get a problem fixed, if they deny the fact that it even exists???


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## SpankWare

> _Originally posted by Sir_whinealot _
> *Even if you don't mess with "Channels You Receive" or "favorites" this 'bug' can hit you. I too, hadn't set up either (don't use WL's & have "suggestions" turned off).
> 
> .......
> 
> How the heck do you get a problem fixed, if they deny the fact that it even exists??? *


Ok good, some better information. I guess I'm a lucky one then in that I've never been hit by this. Surely there has to be some common thread for it to affect so many people here, we just have to determine it for ourselves.

How do you get a problem fixed when they deny it? Simple, you don't let them deny it. When it becomes more difficult for them to attempt to ignore you rather than ignore the problem, they'll start admitting there is an issue. You just have to make it happen.


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## Mark Lopez

Had it happen again. Called DirectTV this time and got the typical "We never heard of that problem".  As soon as they told me to reboot, I just hung up.

This is starting to happen way too frequently, the last time was just a week ago or so.


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## drew2k

I haven't experienced this yet, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I've been following this thread, but wonder if you have to tell the DirecTV CSR exactly what you want them to do when you call to report the channels disappeared. 

Whenever I've called in the past about a problem, I always asked them to make a notation on my account. If the problem repeated, the next time I called, I told them it happened again and they should reference the prior notation. It was happening quite often that Dolby Digital would disappear on Showtime, so I asked them to escalate the problem internally to whatever department does research and troubleshooting, and told them I'd wait on hold while they wrote up the ticket and forwarded it. 

I'm thinking if you continue this procedure, at a minimum your account history will be accurate showing how many times it's happening, and if you're lucky, maybe someone with any authority at DirecTV will notice all the tickets being forwarded, notice a trend, and inform the CSR's that this is not an unheard of issue.

If nothing else, with a history of problems in your account, the CSR may actually take pity on you and offer a "credit" for your problems!


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## Sir_winealot

> _Originally posted by SpankWare _
> *
> 
> How do you get a problem fixed when they deny it? Simple, you don't let them deny it. When it becomes more difficult for them to attempt to ignore you rather than ignore the problem, they'll start admitting there is an issue. You just have to make it happen. *


I gotta tell ya SpankWare...it ain't fer lack of tryin'. I went around in circles w/them the other nite, and it was like like trying to catch a flea with chopstix....oh sure...Mr. Miaggi can do it, but the folks *I* spk/w at DTV CS were _adamant_ that it was my dish alignment, MS or access card.

Short of picketing their local office, I'm open for suggestions.

Hmmm...maybe I should try email?

**Drew...good points! I'll try that angle if it continues ...perhaps over time, they'll even offer me a "couple replacement HDVR2's" since it only seems to be affecting Series 1 units...(altho I *love* that T-60 remote, and both my units have been upgraded w/bigger HD's) ...you never know 'till you try!


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## BlankMan

Well my T60 known as TiVo2 was missing all it's Favorite Channels when I turned on the TV this evening, this time however it did not look like any of the Channels I Receive were lost. Well, I didn't go and count them, but usually it's quite obvious.

Feeling like I wanted to kill some time tonight I decided to call DirecTV. First at bat, Aldo ID 3434 of the TiVo Specialty Group, when he came on the line I asked to confirm that he was the TiVo Specialty Group and he said he was. After explaining the on going problem to him I was asked to hold while he did some checking. When he came back he stated that there is an issue with this, that when DirecTV adds new channels, that will cause all the channels in the Favorites List to be deleted. Almost sounds like we're making progress.

He then asked that I call Sony. I said why. He said to go over the problem with them. I said what if they say there is nothing they can do about it, Aldo says call DirecTV back.

Second at bat Dan at Sony, I have the call ticket number but will not list it here. After explaining the on going problem to Dan and what Aldo told me, Dan started laughing and asked why did I call Sony. I said because DirecTV told me to jump through hoops. So, after having Dan document the call and getting the ticket number I was off to call DirecTV again. I do like the fact that Sony records their calls so that this cannot be disputed.

Third at bat, Jennifer ID 10006778. After explaining the problem to her, which took longer this time, and what Aldo told me, I was put on hold while she did some checking. When she came back, she told me to fix the problem do a Clear and Delete on the unit and that in her words "will reload the software". Well, a simple reboot will "reload" the software, so to say the least I was very skeptical of this. Not wanting to lose all my SP's and recorded programs before I watch them I pressed for a little more information.

I explained to her that two people over at TiVo have acknowledged the problem and said they were in contact with DirecTV and never did they say a Clear Delete would fix it. I asked what if it doesn't and it happens again, Jennifer said then the unit would have to be replaced. I said two people at TiVo who have reproduced the problem are saying it's a software issue and you're saying that the hardware would need to be replaced? Then I realized that I had just received DirecTV's third canned answer when they deal with DVR problems:

1.) Reboot it
2.) Call us
3.) Replace it

Not believing Jennifer in light of what E. Stephen Mack and Bill Dailey at TiVo have said so far and once again informing Jennifer of that, I asked what if I Cleared and Deleted and it happened again and I called back? She said I would then be put in touch with a Technician, I asked if I could do that right now, she asked that I hold on.

Fourth at bat Yolinda ID 5364. She said she's the supervisor of the TiVo Specialty Group, does that mean Technician? I don't know. I explained to her what Aldo told me, what Dan told me, now what Jennifer told me, and what E. Stephen Mack and Bill Dailey have said, fell on deaf ears. She did allude that there is an issue and DirecTV's current answer is to Clear and Delete. She said the Engineers "in the back" as she put it may know more, but Clear and Delete is their current fix. I said again, that TiVo is indicating that it is a software problem, she wasn't listening. 

I also asked Yolinda to address what Aldo told me, she said who's Aldo. I said the first TiVo Specialist I talked to who told me that when DirecTV adds new channels, that will cause all the channels in the Favorites List to be deleted. She disavowed any knowledge of any Aldo being in the TiVo Specialty Group even after I furnished her with his ID number. That builds confidence in DirecTV's Support Organization.

I then asked Yolinda when this "issue" will be resolved, these were her exact words: "We're hoping we can get this fixed as soon as possible". Not like other companies that purposely try and take as long as they can to fix a software problem.... 

So, after three phone calls for a total of 65 minutes on the phone I now have a clear understanding of the problem and what DirecTV is doing to address it. 

1.) Aldo says "when DirecTV adds new channels, that will cause all the channels in the Favorites List to be deleted".
2.) Dan says "Why are you calling Sony about this?"
3.) Jennifer says "Clear and Delete and if that doesn't fix it replace the unit".
4.) Yolinda says "We're hoping we can get this fixed as soon as possible".

Yep, crack Support Organization DirecTV has there, so who to believe?

But, Yolinda did indicate that on my account they have the occurrences of these losses, now the only way those could be there, especially the recent ones is through my emails that I have been sending to them.

So anyone game to test the Clear and Delete?


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## tammyandlee

Bump


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## LazyFox

Well just called the tech support and made the guy record the problem in my file. I told him I just want him to record my complaint and that other users on this forum had the same problem. Just call them and don't ask them for fix, just tell them to record your complaint.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *So anyone game to test the Clear and Delete? *


Has anyone with the problem tried this? I seriously doubt it will help, but I can go ahead and try it on my one unit. It only has one SP and I have nothing recorded at this point.


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## Tutman

Last month, I did a clear and delete on one of my units - not that I was asked to or anything. The hard drive crashed, and I replaced it and copied the image from my other unit. To get the image from another unit to work in this unit, I had to do a clear and delete.

That individual unit has not experienced a problem since (3 or 4 weeks now). However, I have never had the problem on a single unit more frequent than a couple of months.

Maybe, just maybe, this will work. The answer may be a couple months from now. Since DirecTV doesn't "clear and delete" our system when they upgrade our software, but simply upgrade it with all settings left in place, maybe there is an issue with the upgrade process.

However, I'm guessing that this is just DirecTV's attempt at stalling.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *However, I'm guessing that this is just DirecTV's attempt at stalling. *


 That was my first thought too, or they have no clue so they'll try anything, of course at the customers inconvenience though


----------



## BrettStah

Doing a Clear and Delete is just as bad as swapping out the DirecTivo itself, in my opinion. I guess it would save me the time it takes to upgrade the hard drive, but the time-consuming part is re-entering all of the season passes and wishlists, plus losing the existing recordings.


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *Doing a Clear and Delete is just as bad as swapping out the DirecTivo itself, in my opinion. *


I agree. My one unit has a ton of SPs and recordings. However, my other unit only has one SP right now. So I figured it's at least worth a try since it's been happening every few week lately. The bad part is that since it does happen irregularly, it could take months to find out if this fixes it. In any case, it's in the process of clearing and deleting now. We shall see.


----------



## SpankWare

Blankman,
Now that was a good post. Thanks for giving a very detailed transcription of your support calls. As for the answers you got, I think it clearly supports the idea that the DVR CSR's are either unaware of the issue or are intentionally dismissing it. I'm likely to go with the idea that they're only able to support you with the information they are given, and as such I would place little blame on the people who are only "doing what they are told." Those guys in the back are the people we need to talk to about this issue, the real technical folks and not the people that talk for them. For the Clear and Delete suggestion, if nobody has done it yet or those that have are not currently experiencing the issue then we need to consider this as a possible solution. It's a pain for sure, but if that's the resolution they have suggested I think it should at least be tried before it's dismissed. What answers if any about the specific issue have you received from TiVo? They say a software issue, but have more details been given? It might shed some light on the usefulness of a Clear and Delete.

I think the ideas noted above about having a note on your account each time you call with the issue (and preferably one note per unit experiencing the problem) is a great idea. But I'm certain there has to be a ticketing system, and we've got to get some real and consistent data in there on this issue. The "people above" won't be looking at notes in individual accounts, they'll be looking at the statistics on open trouble tickets, so that is the best place to attack.


----------



## SammyTerry

I've been watching this thread for some time now because this has happened to me. Here is my original post on the matter:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=135305

About a week after that happened, I lost my favorites again but not the channels I receive so all my SP's recorded normally.

Some time after that, for an unrelated reasons, I reset my thumbs up data and stopped recording suggestions. I have yet to have the problem happen to me again. I don't know, maybe doing that reset has something to do with it not happening to me again, as unlikely as it seems.


----------



## BlankMan

*SpankWare* I've said all along, I believe the CSR's in the trenches, the ones answering the phones truly want to help and truly try to help but are hampered from doing so by Management. I have said this in posts and in PM's to CSR's, I've also had them tell me I nailed it on the head. And I could sense it from Yolinda as soon as she got on the phone, in her mind, this is the way it is and it's not open for discussion, do what I tell you and stop wasting my time...

The problem with the Clear and Delete in my mind, besides losing all ones SP's and recorded programs is that it might mask the problem. It might be an issue that as SP's accumulate and recordings and Thumbs Up/Down data, etc. that then the problem will surface again. That could be 6 months down the road. So it's ok until then, it surfaces again and we start over with DirecTV because even though they have it documented now I'd bet you in 6 months they'd start it as a new problem. It's been going on for over a year that I'm aware of, others here might know it for longer, and they haven't correlated any of that data to this point so why would they start then?

But the fact the the TiVo Reps never offered this solution, and even though painful, if indeed it was the fix and they knew it I'm sure they would make the case do it once and it will be over, but they have not. And the fact that DirecTV will not say that this will absolutely fix the problem, the fact that they say the next step is to replace the unit, builds no confidence in them. Replace the hardware for a software problem. Not. They're guessing.

Maybe one of the TiVo Reps will comment on the Clear and Delete, nobody knows the software better then them, so they should be able to tell if somebody's blowin' smoke, and hopefully if so their conscience will help them from putting their customers through needless pain.

Clear and Delete coming from DirecTV who's infamous fix for any problem has been "Reboot it" does not carry a lot of weight in my book, unfortunately for them they blew their creditability long ago.

TiVoOpsMgr told me that TiVo was able to reproduce the problem and contacted DirecTV with that information. TiVoBill said in a post vaguely because he'd get in trouble if he didn't do it that way, that it has to do with AGP data sent when DirecTV is adding new channels. This is what Aldo said also, so I tend to lean towards that explanation and believe it.

Clear and Delete does not load any new software or change the code in any way or patch it, so if the DirecTV add channels process is what is causing this problem, how could Clear and Delete fix the problem? The same code is executing after the Clear and Delete, DirecTV is doing the same add channel process, so nothing changes. IMHO


----------



## SpankWare

I'd love to hear from TivoOpsMgr exactly what this "software fix" would do to correct the issue, as that should tell us exactly what the problem is. If Clear and Delete fixes, even if temporarily, the issue then I can't help but wonder if there's some data being written to the system and the space available for this data is running out, causing it to mess up. Clear and Delete would clear out any data that the system is using so this might make sense. That's the only thing I can think of. Either there's some data being written wrong, which corrupts over time or there's a limited amount of allocated space for this data and causing it to fill up is causing a problem. Without knowing exactly what TiVo determined the problem to be and what they would have done to fix it, we'll never know. As I don't have this problem, I'm clearly more interested in what the issue is rather than the fix for it. Being a long time Linux user and developer, I just want to get my hands in here and start poking around. This is just like my "slow guide" issue.... it's gotta be something really simple that just needs to get done.

While I don't fully support the idea of annoying people, I think we need to find some way to get some information..... on or off the record from the guys who know the system to tell us what is causing this and why. Then we can work hard on pressing to get it fixed.


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *The problem with the Clear and Delete in my mind, besides losing all ones SP's and recorded programs is that it might mask the problem. It might be an issue that as SP's accumulate and recordings and Thumbs Up/Down data, etc. that then the problem will surface again. *


I don't think SPs etc. have anything to do with the problem. My one TiVo that does it has never had more than one SP (actually not an SP but a record by time), no more than 2 or 3 recordings at any given time, suggestions are off and I don't use thumbs. Oh, it's also an un-hacked unit.


----------



## BlankMan

I don't think we're going to get any more out of TiVo Reps, I've been informed that DirecTV has asked them to drop it, do not comment on it any more. This is exactly why I have it in for DirecTV so much, I'm not normally that way, but their constant stonewalling instead of just being open. This is unlike me too but I hope Murdock cleans house. I've been through acquisitions on both sides and know the results, I've never wished this on anyone before but if the Management types that condone and foster this stonewalling and lack of being up front and honest with their customers lost their jobs I would have no sympathy. Find another job and go screw up that company that I hopefully don't have to deal with. Selfish I know...

But on another note: I asked yesterday if this thread could be sticky'd until it's resolved and have not gotten a response nor is it sticky'd. I guess a thread covering an on going problem with a DirecTV Receiver with TiVo in the DirecTV Receiver with TiVo Forum is not as important as Goin' to Loss Wages...


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *I don't think SPs etc. have anything to do with the problem. My one TiVo that does it has never had more than one SP (actually not an SP but a record by time), no more than 2 or 3 recordings at any given time, suggestions are off and I don't use thumbs. Oh, it's also an un-hacked unit. *


 I agree, I'm just trying to keep somewhat of an open mind and entertain all possibilities.


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## SpankWare

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *I don't think we're going to get any more out of TiVo Reps, I've been informed that DirecTV has asked them to drop it, do not comment on it any more.
> *


Was this an actual statement, or something that was inferred? If it's an actual statement as in "Yes, DirecTV acknowledged this but told us we can't talk about it anymore" then I'm going to jump on the Blankman bandwagon. Not necessarily against Customer Support, but against the organization itself. This type of thing just will not do. See, it's something like this that's going to force me to crack the case on a unit or two and start poking around. While I'm not currently experiencing the problem, there's clearly a real problem and no real logical reason why it isn't being fixed, at least that we're being told.

Time to start pulling favors. Since we can't get it out of TivoOpsMgr, we need to start finding some other contacts and kind souls inside TiVo or DirecTV who can shed some light on what's going on.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by SpankWare _
> *Was this an actual statement, or something that was inferred? If it's an actual statement as in "Yes, DirecTV acknowledged this but told us we can't talk about it anymore" then I'm going to jump on the Blankman bandwagon. *


 Whoa! Was I wrong! I remember saying you would never change my mind and I would never change yours! But something is happening! It's.... It's.... a Miracle!


----------



## Mark Lopez

Ok, I have a conspiracy theory! After I did the clear and delete, it went through the guided setup. When I got to the dialing section, I didn't recall my DirecTiVo ever looking for a local number (as did the SA units) when I first set it up. I then looked at the dialing options on my other unit that has this problem and it's set to use the toll-free number. So my conspiracy theory is that this is being done on purpose to get people to do a clear and delete so you can no longer use the toll-free number.  But out of curiosity, are those who are having this problem using the toll-free or local dial-in number?


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> * But out of curiosity, are those who are having this problem using the toll-free or local dial-in number? *


 DSL.

_<added>_

But I should add, before DSL I always used local numbers.


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *DSL.
> 
> <added>
> 
> But I should add, before DSL I always used local numbers. *


Oh well, so much for that theory.


----------



## tgr131

I've posted a short description of the problem and a link to this thread over in dbs forums. I know occasionally D* employees read that board, and perhaps it will catch the attention of someone who can help. Or perhaps not.


----------



## Paul_D

Well, after it hit my DSR6000 two weeks ago, it got my T-60 this past weekend.

I forget what channel I was watching last night, but there was Tanya Memme singing the praises of their customer service department and the JD Powers award. Talk about not believing the message but liking the message deliverer..


----------



## lander215

My DSR-6000 that I moved into my kids room has done this twice in the past two months (after it's software was upgraded by DirecTV). Comes up with the same message as the OP, but it loses it's locals as well, so I have to reset the unit to get the channels back.

Hasn't happened with the HDVR2 as of yet.

Out of curiousity, how does one do a Clear and Delete? The kids don't have any SP's or anything else really, just the basic kids channels (Disney, Toon, etc). They have some stuff recorded, but they won't miss it, so it's worth me trying.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by lander215 _
> *
> Out of curiousity, how does one do a Clear and Delete? *


It's under 'Messages and Setup' - 'Restart or Reset System'

Be advised that after it reboots, it will say "This will take an hour" But in fact it will probably take many hours to complete, so be patient.


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## Teran

I always treat unresolved issues like this as an open trouble ticket until it is resolved to my satisfaction, whether the company I am dealing with has a ticket system or not. I call them at least daily until the issue is resolved. I always get the name, ID, and direct dial number of the person I am talking to, if available. I take detailed notes. If told that my call might be recorded for "quality assurance purposes" then I record the call myself. If I am talking to a different CSR than the one I last talked to I play back the recording of the previous call(s). If I ask for a supervisor and one isn't available then I tell them I'll hold. When told they can't keep me on the line that long, I say "fine, I'll call back every 5 minutes until a supervisor becomes available". Next, a company's policy does not equate to terms of the contract or service agreement. They have their policies and I have mine. I care what their policies as much as they care what mine are.

Pain in the ass, aren't I? Sorry, but I picked it up dealing with telcos over the years.


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## BlankMan

*Teran* wanna start calling DirecTV on our behalf? 

I've been doing something similar via email every time this happens to me I add it to the list of occurrences and forward it to them again. If I don't hear from them in a week I forward it again and ask for status. Never get any though. For this I was chastised in another thread.


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## dukefan

Well, the night before last, I plodded through the customer reps and transferred to a Tivo specialist, and got the standard "never heard of it" chant. I asked to speak to a manager and did get to one, named Tina. Tina listened, and updated my file, promising to pass it on and have a Tivo manager get back to me. I figured it was the end of the line again.

Well, last night, Janet, Manager of Special Projects in the Tivo group actually called me back last night around 8:30est. She claimed that almost everyone in the Tivo group now knows about the problem because they've had "hundreds of calls in the last few hours". They are aware of the problem and are looking for a solution.

Do I believe her? Not really. I thought I'd pass it on though.


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## Tutman

Either we are getting through to people needing to call in the problem, or you should get your boots on. I also couldn't stand seeing this thread getting down to the second page. Bump.


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## tammyandlee

Bump just in case it does


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## tammyandlee

Lets keep this topic going or we will come home to no Tivo recordings one day again.


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## stevel

Please, enough with the bumps. Only reply if you have something significant to contribute. (I have subscribed to this topic and keep getting emails for all the "bumps".)


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## Mark Lopez

No, stevel not a bump, but maybe still some useless info. 

My 2nd DirecTivo that does this, did it again. The one that I did the clear and delete is ok. Now that doesn't prove anything and I'm in no way ready to proclaim it's the cure, but typically the one I did the clear and delete on does it more frequently than the 2nd one. And as I recall, almost always within a few days of the 2nd unit. So we shall wait and see.


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## BlankMan

Mark, maybe if the the unit you did the Clear and Delete on doesn't act up for 2-3 months... Since I started this thread I've recorded the dates of each occurrence and more then once I've gone ~7 weeks in between it happening.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Mark, maybe if the the unit you did the Clear and Delete on doesn't act up for 2-3 months... *


Yeah, thats the problem. This is a fairly intermittent problem (at least for me) and there is no easy way to determine if this did anything to fix it. It could wait 4 months before acting up again. However it does happen more frequent than it used to. So if it does go a few months, than I might be willing to think it at least helped. Maybe by then I'll have my recordings on the other unit whittled down to a point of trying it on that one.

Of course you never know, DirectTV/Tivo might decide to fix it before then. Yeah right.


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## Tutman

Happened again to one of my receivers. This receiver had the problem last on 11/19. My other receiver I did a Clear and Delete a few weeks ago, and so far, so good.

Each time this happens, I take notes of the state of the system. I take better notes each time.

This time, I didn't lose local channels. My Favorites list was completely blank. All but a handful of channels were checked in "Channels you receive". I could still tune to local channels. I looked in my ToDo list, and ALL of my season passes for local channels (Friends, 24, etc) had none of the episodes scheduled. I could see the 2 upcoming episodes, but both said that they wouldn't be recorded.

I rebooted, and when it came back up, the season passes still didn't have any episodes to record. I'll keep checking for the next couple of days to see if they go back to scheduled.

I called DirecTV, asked the "Entertainment Consultant" to send me to the "DVR Specialists", and she asked if it was a "TIVO" issue. I said yes, and she transferred me right away. I spoke to Fred in the DVR Specialists group. He hadn't heard of the problem, and I quickly convinced him that it should be a known issue. He put me on hold to check, and he came back and said that it was a known issue with Series 1 receivers. He said that they didn't have any additional information. I asked specifically for a workaround, and he said that he was told that there weren't any. I asked specifically if a "Clear and Reset" was suggested, and he said not that he was told. I asked if a trouble ticket would be generated, and he said one would. I asked for a ticket number, but was told that he couldn't get me one because his supervisor would be the one to log the call. I asked for him to make a note on my account, and asked if my previous call was logged. He said that it was, and was able to tell me the date, and read me the note. He said that no information on the issue was available.

HOW MUCH LONGER?

I'm going to start keeping track of exactly which channels are checked, and which channels are not checked after it happens. I still think it has to do with DirecTV adding or deleting channels from the lineup. Maybe it also has to do with us unchecking channels in "Channels you receive" prior to DirecTV sending down a new lineup.

Since I don't use TIVO Suggestions, I'm going to try with this receiver to leave "Channels you receive" alone. I'll go ahead and setup Favorites, since I cannot live without that.


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## RealDeal

I've had a Sony SAT-T60 for over 3 years and never had this issue until just recently. I returned home from a vacation and all of my favorites had been lost. I hope they fix this soon.

David


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> * Maybe it also has to do with us unchecking channels in "Channels you receive" prior to DirecTV sending down a new lineup.
> 
> *


Not sure if this is what you mean, but before the last time it happened, I left all of the 'channels you receive' checked and only selected the ones I watch in 'favorites'. It didn't stop it from happening.


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## Tutman

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *Not sure if this is what you mean, but before the last time it happened, I left all of the 'channels you receive' checked and only selected the ones I watch in 'favorites'. It didn't stop it from happening. *


 Thanks Mark. This is exactly what I meant. I don't see any reason for me to remove channels though, and if I lose my settings every couple of weeks now, it will be less for me to do.


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## Mark Lopez

Clear and delete did NOT fix it!

I did a clear and delete everything on my one unit on Dec 2nd and it lost it all again today (or sometime since Sat evening). FWIW, after the clear and delete, I did not set up any SPs and suggestions was turned off. This unit was used minimally before the clear and delete, but I think it's safe to say that recordings have nothing to do with it. Also blows my conspiracy theory about the 800 number. 

So if any DirecTV bozo tells you to do it, just tell them that you already have or (if you don't want to lie) that you know someone who did it and it didn't fix it.


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## BrettStah

I, for one, and glad that's not a fix for the problem. Thanks for testing it!


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *I, for one, and glad that's not a fix for the problem. Thanks for testing it! *


While I can see that it would be a royal PITA to have to do it on a heavily loaded machine, I fear that DirecTV may never do anything about it. If it only happened every few months (as it used to), I would not be happy, but could live with it. However, it is happening more and more frequently. Less than 6 days this time.


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## kiljoy

Happened to me last night on T60 number one. Didn't see this thread when I posted here.

I called, talked to Jenny (DVR Specialist). I didn't know this was a known issue at the time, but she didn't mention it was. VERY disconcerting after three years of perfect service. Both my T60s were upgraded to 3.1.0b at the time, so I thought that might've been the issue. I see that was wrong. Channels I Receive was reset on BOTH Tivos, but only T60 #1 lost all channels the next day.

Is there a fix in the works?

Edit: After I made this post, I called D back and asked for a note to be made on my account regarding this known issue with Series 1 units. If it happens again, I will begin the process of pressing the issue.

Tony


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *Clear and delete did NOT fix it!
> *


 Cool. I highly doubted it would, glad we didn't have to wait months to find out, and thanks for testing Mark. DirecTV's blowin' smoke again.... Surprise surprise....


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## mjones

I've had my unmodified DSR6000 since October 2000 and I've never experienced any of the myriad of issues with regards to Channels I Receive...until last night.

I had some friends over to watch Pirates of the Carribean. At 7pm everything was fine. After watching the movie we decided to watch Cold Case at about 9:30ish. 

I switched over to the TiVo and it wasn't in Now Playing. I looked at the Recording History and found the message that the episode wasn't recorded because it was no longer in the guide. I went to check the guide and that's when I got the message that my favorites hadn't been setup. I flipped guide to Channels I Receive and checked KCBS for info on Cold Case...the info was properly in the guide. I then reset my favorites list.

FYI, the Record light was definately on during the proper timeslot and I don't have suggestions turned on.

When I went to fix my favorites list I took a peek at the Channels I Receive list...every channel was checked.

My TiVo hasn't phoned home in about 3 months, so I know that I do not have the b version of the software. 

Mike


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by mjones _
> *My TiVo hasn't phoned home in about 3 months, so I know that I do not have the b version of the software.
> *


Mine did it before the b update too. Not sure if the update is causing it to happen more frequently or if it's something different DirecTV is doing.

Be sure to call them and complain. They need to hear this from everyone affected.


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## lmtuxinc

This happened to my T-60 also. I lost every thing but the nasa channel and the farm channel, and I called directv and they had me reboot the tivo and redo all my lists. I did have to wait 4 hours before my local chanels came back though.


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## dukefan

Just happened to my other DSR6000. This sucks.

When I called to scream and yell, at least my account had been noted from last week. The interesting thing is that in the ticket, there is apparently a "heat ticket" now. I asked what that meant. The CR told me that it meant that it was a known issue that no known troubleshooting could fix and it had been escalated to management. In other words, we're screwed.


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## lander215

> _Originally posted by dukefan _
> *... escalated to management. In other words, we're screwed. *


 That's so true. Now that management is involved, we'll never get it fixed!


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by lander215 _
> * That's so true. Now that management is involved, we'll never get it fixed! *


 LOL Yeah really.

I did my weekly email to DirecTV Monday forwarding previous messages that list the date of each occurrence I have had and asking once again for a status. Just being a thorn, they never reply, except to say call them. This time I told them I had called last week and if they like I would send them the transcript of those three calls that took 65 minutes.


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## BlankMan

Stickied! Thank you very much!


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## Dirac

Philips' turn this week (the "main TiVo"). Happened while I was on a business trip and my wife was pretty ticked. Now SHE's getting good at setting the channels.


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## Smiles

Thanks for the sticky. It happened again to my Hughes series 1 yesterday.


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## BlankMan

I sent this email to DirecTV yesterday with my usual forwarded list of my occurrences:



> You might want to have your management look at this thread on the
> TiVoCommunity Forum. It is getting a lot of attention there. And anyone
> that is doing research on whether or not to get a DirecTV DVR will know
> that this problem is occurring and affecting the DirecTV DVR's ability to
> to record programs. They will also know that DirecTV is being silent on
> the problem, i.e. ignoring it, so they will realize that DirecTV Support
> is of no help.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115194


_It links this thread._


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## Smurfslayer

I'm not a Tivo guru, but I've been w/ dtv for a while now, and had tivo for a year now. I just installed a 2nd Tivo.

Primary SAT T60, new one a phillips dsr7k.
Was watching a show from the now playing list. Was recording 2 shows at once, and one of them was what I was watching - battlestar galactica.
~10:30 EST 12/9, a message came up from Tivo asking me was I done with this show - delete or don't delete. I chose don' t delete...

Both recordings stopped, and the guide was saying there were no channels in this display (favorites). I couldn't flip up or down channels. I changed to channels I receive, and could see TV, but locals were gone. After about 5 minutes, I realized I had to try a reset - powered down, unplugged. plugged back in, unit powered up, then immediately shut down. I turned it on by remote & it went through the tivo setup.

After setup I got TV back but favorites was still gone. I manually restarted the recording and redid the favs the next day.

1st time this has happened to me (DC Metro / NoVA ) ...


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## BrettStah

Smurfslayer, call DirecTV please... let's see if a critical mass of calls on this can get it resolved ASAP.


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## Rcrew

... just finished reading through 12 pages... 

It looks like this is what hit my unmodified Hughs Series 1 last night. Well, I noticed the problem last night, it's the back room DTiVo.

Local Channels were gone, Channels I receive started at 100. I thought initially they were removed from Channels I receive because they were lost, BUT there were many, many channels I do not receive added to the list of channels I receive, so the actual problem seems larger than just losing local channels. Of course my To Do list was worthless.

I went to standby, and pulled the plug. When the re-boot was done, my Local Channels were back, but the Channels I receive needs to be corrected. I saw this thread last night, but didn't have time to go through 12 pages, and my quick scan didn't look like my problem was the same. Now it appears it is.

However, I feel my observations of my problems aren't precise enough to make a clear complaint call. I'm going to clean up channels I receive tonight, and wait to see what happens next.

My other DTiVo, also series 1, but modified with extra disk, has not yet had the problem.


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## tammyandlee

Happend to me again last night too. Hughes series 1 unmodified.


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## BlankMan

I got this response from yesterday's email to DirecTV, just maybe they're starting to take this seriously.



> Dear <BlankMan>:
> 
> Thank you for your message. I have forwarded your message to the
> appropriate department for further review. We appreciate your patience
> while we research this further.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Mohammad
> DIRECTV Customer Service


Maybe constantly emailing them is starting work, if you don't mind doing it for months....


----------



## austinsho

And this has not happened so far to *any* series 2 units?


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by austinsho _
> *And this has not happened so far to any series 2 units? *


 Second Generation units you mean?  No one has reported it yet and it hasn't happened to my HDVR2/3.


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## austinsho

Right, that was what I was trying to say, the HDVR2 and its successors...


----------



## Paul_D

Count me for another hit on my T-60 yesterday. It was tolerable when it was once every few months, but now every week or so per unit? Gack.


----------



## blips

Well this happened to "my wife's" Tivo last week. I shrugged it off until my brother yesterday told me it happened to him. Then I thought I better check the board. Both my wife's and my brother's Tivos are unmodified DSR6000's. I will now watch out for more details when it happens again. (Knock on wood) It has not happened to my heavily modified DSR6000.


----------



## FatherTed

It's happened four times total to my T60 and twice in the last 10 days. All starting after the receiver took the new software version.


----------



## stevel

I first started seeing this in May or June, long before the software update. But it is certainly more frequent now.


----------



## stale

It seems that this problem is certainly happening to some people more often than others. I wonder if its related to the locales users are in, or the packages user's subscribe to. I haven't really noticed anyone else from the San Diego area experiencing this problem a lot. Could it be due to new local channels being added?

I also only subscribe to the basic DTV package and the local package, could it happen more frequently to users with the premium packages? (doubtful but ironic).


----------



## ckilkus

This must be the longest thread ever! It's a wonder that DirecTV doesn't do anything about it......

It has happened to me too, once on December 4th and today December 13th. I only lose my favorite channel list, and not my "all" or "receive" lists, and I don't lose any programming. But it's still annoying since I only really use my favorites channel list when I watch tv. And especially annoying if it's going to be a weekly occurance!

I have a series 1 Phillips DSR600R. Is the only known "fix" to upgrade to a Series 2 or 3 unit?


----------



## RonP

All those who are new to this thread and have recently experienced this problem, please call DirecTV to report it: 1-800-531-5000. If you get an inexperienced tech demand to talk to someone higher up. Make sure they log the problem. It's the only chance we have of getting this fixed!


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## Smiles

I keep forgetting to post that it happened to me again earlier this week. Argh.


----------



## davidm69

My Directv PVR has been losing the "Channels Received" and "Favorites" listings during the past four weeks. It has also lost the channels subscribed to in the onscreen guide.

I thought the unit might be getting to hot, so I unplugged it for 8 hours and started it up again only to have the same thing happen again.

Since I've had the unit for two years, I wondered if it was a updated software glitch or if the unit was getting ready to crash and burn.


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## fastermac

I have 2 Sony T60 TiVo's. For about 3 weeks one of them keeps losing most of the channels that I receive. A reboot always brings the channels back. The other unit does not have this problem. Both TiVo's are running the 3.1 software and are modified with bigger drives and TurboNet cards.


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## Bicycle Bill

I believe I am losing my channel selections on my SAT-T60 every time that DirecTV downloads a channel lineup change. Seems that I always have a channel lineup change message on my Series 2 unit whenever the SAT-T60 loses everything. Always have to reset the T60 and then manually put the channels back in. Can't imagine this not being the cause; however, I'm not sure if it is DirecTV doing the deleting or adding of channels that causes the problem. Funny that my Series 2 will have the channel lineup change message while SAT-T60 doesn't...The SAT-T60 is the only one having the problems. Over the past 4-5 weeks, this has occurred 3-4 times; whereas, it used to happen about twice per year.

Now that I think about it. I get virtually all my DirecTV messages via my Series 2 system. Cannot remember seeing one message on my T60 over the past 6 months. Maybe they do that on purpose when you have two TIVOs on one account. 

Software Version is 3.1.0b-02-1-011


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## tarman

I quote: "Seems that I always have a channel lineup change message on my Series 2 unit....."

I have a HDVR2 (3?) and have no idea what a "channel lineup change message" is! My HDVR2 is the second or third sold by CC so I have had it since they first came out.

Can someone enlighten me?


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## Bicycle Bill

A "channel lineup change" is when DirecTV adds/deletes/changes a channel assignment. An typical example of a "change" would be something like "As of 12/14 Channel 340 no longer carries the Dog Channel. As of 12/15 Channel 340 is the Cat Channel." I get such messages from DirecTV on my Series 2 fairly often...But not on my T60.


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## BlankMan

I do believe people have reported this problem with 2.5, 3.1, and now 3.1b, there were threads referenced that were posted long before I started this thread. I do believe I was having the problem before I got 3.1, but it didn't start annoying me enough until this past May to start a thread because the frequency increased.

For those of you that haven't read this whole thread and are asking questions TiVoBill eluded to the fact that it is probably caused by DirecTV adding channels. In my post of the transcript when I called DirecTV the CSR, Aldo, also said it is caused by DirecTV adding channels. This thread has a lot of information and some of the questions being asked have already been answered.


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## Alecp

This just happened to me for the first time, on my series 1 which is coming up on two years old now. I just got it fixed, my locals showed up and I added them and everything seems to be ok. I'd call DirecTV now, but I fixed it, so I don't know what I'd say.

Perhaps this should be made a sitcky and a quick fix solution (to add the channels back) could be added to the first post?


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## stevel

You should call and complain and ask that they note it on your account.

This topic IS a sticky. Simply adding the channels is not always a complete solution. Often you have to restart the recorder to get all the available channels back.


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## BlankMan

Well I just got nailed again, figured it would be happening soon with all the reports coming in. My TiVo2 unit a T60 is left with nothing but the NASA channel (376) and HBOL (511) in the Favorite Channel list. Time to contact DirecTV again.


----------



## wired711

Hi all,

Logging my most recent hit...
Switched to our second Hughes GXCEBOTD unit on Tuesday at around 9:30 PM to find it was on ch 545 (TMCw) which is a channel we don't receive with a blank screen and the infamous message "For ordering information...". The program guide was empty except for these listed channels (none of which we receive anyway) 532,533,537,538,539,540,542,544,545,547,549,550,595,597,598.

These were also the only channels listed in my Channels You Receive list.

All my Monday shows were recorded and the Tivo seemed to have all it's channels in the guide when I last checked it late last night before bed. Nothing got recorded as originally scheduled on Tuesday however.. The first show that was supposed to record on Tuesday was at 7:00 PM. The To Do List displayed "none scheduled" for the few shows that were supposed to be recorded on Tuesday.

Going to any of the menu options like "Pick Programs to Record" shows the message in a box at the bottom of the screen "Acquiring Program Guide data from the satellite. Some data available now. Full data in 1-2 days."

Recording History displays the typical "This program was not recorded because it was no longer in the program guide" for the shows that were supposed to record Tuesday night.

I had to restart the recorder. Over the next 5 or 10 minutes the rest of the channels appeared to come back to the guide but my To Do List continued to display "none scheduled". I selected later showings over the next few hours 11 PM through 2 AM for of couple of the shows that didn't get recorded except that the episode of "24" we missed is not on again so we've lost it. For each show I manually selected to record, it took many minutes to get the record confirmation message. Hopefully over the next day the To Do list will list programs that can be scheduled to record again. Until then I'll have to be diligent to manually select them to be recorded. 

Our Tivo1 is working normally but sometimes it's the one to be hit and Tivo2 is fine. It's been a couple of months since I was last hit so I guess I was due. Both units are running software version 3.1.0b-02-1-031 and hadn't made the "daily call" in a couple of weeks (I do it manually). I don't ever put them in standby and they are not on UPS's.

I'll probably give a call to DirecTV just to try to get an event opened to add to a documented history (and not because I think anyone will actually be able to help).

If anybody has any media connections maybe it's going to take some public "bad press" to get some real attention and feedback on this apparently very real issue by someone at DirecTV and/or Tivo.

Cheers,
Doug


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## pigvig

My Sony system has done this twice in the last month or so. Also, last week it lost the ability to see local channels. I called support and they re-authorized the account. After a hard reset (unplugged for a minute) it's been working OK. My s/w on the Sony is 3.1.0b-02-1-011.

I have not had this problem on my Philips unit so far (knock on wood).


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## cvarner

Just happened to me again on 12/15 on my T-60.
Though this time, it was not as bad. My Favorite Channels list disappeared and my Channels You Receive list had everything added back in that I had removed after the last occurrence. The first time I had this issue, the machine stopped recording my Season Passes and I had to do a restart, but not this time. It seems strange to me that the problem has differing levels of severity.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by cvarner _
> *It seems strange to me that the problem has differing levels of severity. *


Yes, I have had many variations. Always the favorites are gone, but have had one of the following

All Channels You Receive selected
All Channels You Receive gone
All Channels You receive gone except NASA
A mix of All Channels you receive gone (and always the locals)

A reboot has always restored the channels but always requires setting up favorites again. I've given up on fiddling with the Channels You Receive. I just select them all then just fix the favorites. I now just keep a 'cheat sheet' with the list next to the remote. 

My new conspiracy theory is this is intentional to get everyone so fed up, they buy a series 2.


----------



## sher

Dammit anyhow. First time this occurrence and I was out last night and no shows taped. Didn't notice the problem til this morning. DSR6000.

Hopefully it won't continue on.


----------



## sigloxx

I thought I was one of the only ones having this problem. I've thought about calling DTV and now will. T-60, 3.1.0b software. Typically it deletes the channels I receive and favorite channel list, which affects suggestions list. 

I didn't read the entire forum, but a few posts. Does anyone also think it may have something to do with their ECM bursts? I'd think it'd more likely be a channel line up change though, since it happens about twice a month, sometimes twice a week, but this is majorly annoying.

To help, I simply program the channels I receive, making those my favorite channels essentially.  I don't additionally program the favorite channels. I figure if I want to watch something elsewhere, I'll pop up the 'all channels' window in the guide. For now that helps in not having to program two lists, since this does not appear to be on DTV's fix it list for quite awhile. Thanks for the posts. We are not alone.


----------



## allenw

Our only receiver (an upgraded DSR6000) got hit today as well. It's been fine for almost 2 years now without any real hitch. 

I wonder if the channels that you do receive determines how much/how often "damage" is done. In our case, we only have a single, circular dish so only get channels off of the main satellite and the spot beam. I would think that the folks who have an oval or two circles would be seeing the issue more often. At least, that's what I'd think would happen if the issue was tied to channel changes. [Don't more changes happen on the "other" satellite?]


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## BrettStah

<knocking on wood>
It hasn't happened in 2-3 weeks or so on either of our DSR-6000s. Since the last time it did happen, other than rebooting the affected unit we haven't added or removed any channels from either the "Channels I Receive" or "Favorite Channels" lists. I'm not sure if leaving those lists alone is preventing the "Channel not Available" bug we've seen on both of our units periodicially or not, but it's my current theory I'm going with. 
</knocking on wood>


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## sigloxx

Brett, on my unit you must select channels to receive, otherwise nothing will show up in your guide. You have to set it up. I simply set up the channels I receive as the only channels I want to watch (my favorites) and don't set up the favorite channels list, as it's twice as much work. If I want to watch something else, I'll tell the guide to show all channels. 

Another thing I've noticed is that the S-P-S-30-S feature goes away either at the same time as the 'reset' or some time later. Yesterday morning I encountered the loss of channel selections. The S-P-S feature was fine, until that evening. It disappeared and I had to re-enter it. This is another consistent thing that appears to happen, at least on the T-60 units, and another reason why I suspect ECM as the culprit, though resetting of channel information may also wreak havoc with customization of remote features.

As I can't live without this added feature I've not ran a test to see if I don't use it what might happen. 

Allen, more channel changes might occur as more channel choices are available, so that's a pretty good point that may determine the frequency of these occurences for each specific user.


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## BrettStah

Every time we've had the issue where we see "Channel Not Available", we've immediately rebooted. Shortly afterwards, everything seems to be back to normal, and we get expected recordings, etc. As you pointed out, any of the undocumented features that have been enabled (such as the 30 second skip) are disabled after the reboot. I've not noticed features like that being disabled without a reboot causing it though.


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## kevinm

I just noticed this for the first time. Last night I lost all channels. Even channel 100 was not working. Some other pieces of data:

1) I have never experienced this issue in the past
2) I have not had my phone line plugged in for a year and installed a TurboNet card about 3 weeks ago
3) I recently noticed a new Tivo message that told me to check for new local dial in numbers

Sounds like a code issue or some relationship to dialing in and/or getting these messages.

A system reset cleared the issue as expected.


----------



## sigloxx

Does anyone know if unplugging the phone line will help with this or not?
I used to have a need to have it plugged in, but don't anymore. No pay per view orders, etc.


----------



## kevinm

Probably not, but it can't hurt to try. There is a good chance that this is just a bug in newer code that I downloaded after being unplugged for a year.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *Probably not, but it can't hurt to try. There is a good chance that this is just a bug in newer code that I downloaded after being unplugged for a year. *


 It's been mentioned a number of times in this thread that people have reported this back to 2.5 code, so it is not a new problem with 3.1b. It was happening to me with 3.1 and 2.5.

Read the thread. There's a lot of information in it that you don't see by jumping to the end.


----------



## kevinm

I did read several pages, but the entire thread is not a light read. However, your RTFT (read the "fine" thread) comment is well taken.

Like I said, this is the first time I have seen it and hopefully the variables I included help the analysis.


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## BlankMan

I know, it's sometimes a pain, I've done it myself in other instances. _rcrew_ came into it at 12 pages and read them all, I give him credit for that.

But on topic, if you haven't already call DirecTV and complain AND get it noted on your account, that will help you and maybe help this thing get fixed., Do it every time it occurs. I know it's a pain, I hate it, you have to start over every time with the CSR's and they usually have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm starting to push DirecTV for compensation in the form of a credit on my account. This is BS, especially now that it's affecting the unit's ability to record programs.


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## blips

It just happened to me today. Grrrr! I hope News Corp will change some policies so we can get this fixed!


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## Todd76

It happened to me Sunday morning; I missed two scheduled recordings.


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## BrettStah

Don't forget to call DirecTV and report the problem!


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## austinsho

And when reporting, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure you go directly to the Tivo support group, as opposed to a front-line CSR.


----------



## Mark Lopez

<sigh> Unit one did it again, sometime after Saturday. Another call to DirecTV.


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## stevel

You can try to be connected directly to a TiVo specialist, but most of the frontline CSRs won't let you do so until they filter the request first.


----------



## crusador

hughes seems to be acknowleding a problem with some of their non tivo recievers losing favorites, and are working on a fix, think the problems could be related? HNS said that HNS HBH-SA and HAH-SA were having problems losing favorites and using turbo tune.....anyone called hns latly?


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## khark

It happened again to me yesterday sometime on my unmodified 35 hour Phillips. I restarted it but it didn't fix the favorites so I had to do it manually.


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## BrettStah

About my statement that a reboot fixes my problem... I don't typically use the Favorites list, so the only thing that it fixes with a reboot for me is the problem with not properly tuning in channels.


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## Rik

First ... you can add me to the growing list. It's happened about six times to my unmodified Hughes in the past four months. It just happened to my modified Philips for the second time in that same time period.

Second. I was once able to get some significant response from DTV on a previous issue by bypassing the standard cust svc 800#s and contacting corporate. I called the CEO, President, VP Operations, VP Public Relations and everyone else I could and was able to get the needed satisfaction. This was several years ago but it may be worth a try again. I am employed in an area where I have access to relatively detailed business information and may be able to get some key contact names and main corporate numbers if anyone is interested in kicking down some doors,


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## Rik

happened again with my Hughes this morning at 7:43 AM right before my eyes. The last call in was several hours earlier. The timing was right as the GC (whatever that is) and the Indexing were occuring.


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## BlankMan

I came home tonight to find my TiVo3 unit a T60 got nailed again. I sent another email to DTV asking what they are going to do about it and what form of compensation they will provide for continuing to have to put up with this. Anyone that calls in I suggest they start asking for compensation also, hit them on the bottom line, maybe that will get someones attention.


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## Dirac

Happened early this morning on my Philips. Will give them a call and see what happens. I've never actually tried calling the problem in before.


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## Bnocab

This has happened to me at least 8 times in the last year. Happened to me sometime on Friday. I came home on Sunday to find both my SAT-T60 and DSR6000 had lost there favorite channels. Switched the T60 to channels received and locals still would not come in. After a reboot everything was fine for channels received. Still had to reprogram my favorites list. What a pain in my a**...

I will try to call DTV on Monday. DTV please read this post.

B


----------



## bareyb

Add two more to the list. I lost my favorites three times on both Phillips DirecTiVos over the last few months... 

My immediate gut feeling was that DirecTV was doing it intentionally to force you to look at their entire list of offerings again. In case you might decide to order some more packages.  

I didn't read the whole thread (it's late) but since it's been promoted to a "sticky note" I am hoping that somebody has some answers by now? Any progress or additional info on this at all?


----------



## stevel

No progress I'm aware of.


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## Bnocab

Well! Well! Well!

Just call DTV on this issue since it happened to me on Friday. They transferred me to a Tivo specialist. She did a database search and found nothing on this issue. Why wouldn't DTV/Tivo have a report on file. Blankman are you really calling? Is DTV full of sh**...

Stevel, do you know for a fact that DTV/Tivo is aware of the issue??

I told the tivo specialist to log on to www.tivocommunity.com and go to DTV w/ Tivo and read the first line item.

DTV, Just fix it please.

B


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Bnocab _
> *Well! Well! Well!
> 
> Just call DTV on this issue since it happened to me on Friday. They transferred me to a Tivo specialist. She did a database search and found nothing on this issue. Why wouldn't DTV/Tivo have a report on file. Blankman are you really calling? Is DTV full of sh**...
> 
> Stevel, do you know for a fact that DTV/Tivo is aware of the issue??
> 
> I told the tivo specialist to log on to www.tivocommunity.com and go to DTV w/ Tivo and read the first line item.
> 
> DTV, Just fix it please.
> 
> B *


 Read the thread. You'll see my transcript of the 65 minutes I spent on the phone. I forward a very long email to them each time it happens to me reporting the new occurrence. The email contains all occurrences of mine. You'll also see where two TiVo representatives have admitted the problem and then been told by DTV to be quiet.

DTV left a message on my answering machine yesterday saying they will try and call again or I can call. Yeah right.

I've sent them the link to this thread quite a while ago and suggested they make sure their management is aware of this.

I am now pushing for credit to my account for each occurrence until they fix it.


----------



## junkmetro

My Sony Sat T-60 just had this happen for the first time.

In reading the posts it seems the best solution is to:

1. Restart the recorder (restart so that all channels show up)
2. Make sure the channels you recieve is accurate
3. reprogram your favorites list
2. Call DirecTV asking for a Tivo specialist and complain asking for $$ credit for lack of service (TIVO Support Direct Line: 800-695-9251)
3. pray that it does not happen again.

Am I missing any steps? Is reprograming your favorites the only option?

<edited based on feedback from others>


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## stevel

You're missing:

0: Reboot
0.5: Make sure that Channels You Receive is accurate


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## junkmetro

Called DirectTV and elevated to TIVO support. They told me that:

- It is a problem other customers are having.
- I should do a complete system reset / effectively erasing the HD and starting over <I will not be doing this on the advice of others as apparently it does not do anything and only erases some programs that you might get around to watching one day>
- If it happens again I should call back and they will notify the manufacturer of the problem.

They did give me an 800# which I presume is direct to the TIVO support team 800-695-9251... Good luck!


----------



## stevel

Do not do the complete system reset. It has already been proven to not fix the problem.

The manufacturer is irrelevant here too. It is a software problem, DirecTV knows it, and apparently TiVo knows it too.


----------



## Mark Lopez

Well, unit #2 did it again. I called DirecTV *again* and got the same 'Never heard of that' blah blah blah. 

And as stevel mentioned, doing a 'clear and delete everything will not fix it. I tried that and less than a week later it did it again.



> _Originally posted by Bnocab _
> * Why wouldn't DTV/Tivo have a report on file? Is DTV full of sh**...
> *


Yes


----------



## kevinm

Does it make sense to continue posting: "Me too"s to this thread? If another goal is to understand the magnitude perhaps a poll is a better way. For those that experience the problem for the first time it is REALLY painful to read through 15 pages of "me too"s and "me too again"s

It also helps when the first post of a sticky like this is updated with all the latest information.


----------



## kevinm

ok, so here is a shot at a poll. Additions? Think this is worth generating?

This will be a choose all that apply:

o I've never experienced this problem
o I've lost Channels I Receive or Favorites once
o I've lost Channels I Receive or Favorites 1-5 times
o I've lost Channels I Receive or Favorites 5+ times
o The problem box is a Series 1
o The problem box is a Series 2
o The problem box has been "modified"
o The problem box has not been "modified"
o The problem box regularly dials in
o The problem box rarely or never dials in
o I called DirecTV to report it
o I did not call DirecTV to report it
o The CSR knew what I was talking about
o The CSR did not know what I was talking about

NOTE: For those that don't know what a poll is, you do not reply to this thread, there will (may) be another one that you can answer these questions.


----------



## BrettStah

The problem with a poll on this (and some other topics) is that someone may vote today that they have had no problems. Then tomorrow they have the problem, or their spouse tells them that they've seen the problem and fixed it without telling them about it before, etc. 

(Not saying the poll would be useless though, just making a weakness known).


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *Does it make sense to continue posting: "Me too"s to this thread? If another goal is to understand the magnitude perhaps a poll is a better way. For those that experience the problem for the first time it is REALLY painful to read through 15 pages of "me too"s and "me too again"s
> 
> It also helps when the first post of a sticky like this is updated with all the latest information. *


 Yes it does, it is a record of the continuing problem. When it stops, if it stops, it might be because it was fixed or DTV stopped doing what is causing it.

DTV is aware of this thread and it is egg on their face until they fix it.

A poll serves no purpose, TiVo has been able to reproduce the problem, TiVo has contacted DirecTV with this information, DirecTV has told TiVo not to comment on the matter any more

Updating the first post is a good idea, I'm open to suggestions as to what to add.


----------



## kevinm

> _Originally posted by BlankMan_
> *A poll serves no purpose, TiVo has been able to reproduce the problem, TiVo has contacted DirecTV with this information, DirecTV has told TiVo not to comment on the matter any more.*


This sounds suspiciously like you have additional information. What was done to reproduce the problem (i.e. something "DTV is doing") and since that usually is followed by a fix, what is the big hush hush all about?


----------



## Rik

Maybe DTV is slyly trying to push the movement towards Series 2. I would actually consider replacing my old Series 1s now if:

1. I wasn't already waiting for the HD Tivo
2. I wasn't waiting for the Home Networking option


Rik


----------



## stevel

Reading between the lines of responses here from TiVo, DirecTV has asked TiVo to stop talking about it, since DirecTV now "owns" the DTiVo service. I'm guessing that DirecTV is trying to shove us under the rug for long enough in the hopes that we'll go away (or buy new receivers which don't have the problem.)


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *
> Updating the first post is a good idea, I'm open to suggestions as to what to add. *


I suggest putting all of the know facts. For example: Clear and delete won't fix it. Hacked or unhacked doesn't matter. Phone line or not has no bearing. Seasons passes or any recordings makes no difference. (Mine did it after a clear and delete that had no recordings, suggestions off, no seasons passes or wish lists.)


----------



## BrettStah

I'd also recommend changing (or asking a mod to change if needed) the thread title to not specifically talk about favorite channel lists only... i don't use favorites, but have been affected by (what we think) the Channel Not Available issue a few times now.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *This sounds suspiciously like you have additional information. What was done to reproduce the problem (i.e. something "DTV is doing") and since that usually is followed by a fix, what is the big hush hush all about? *


Yes. Some is covered in this thread.

I have updated the original post with some of your suggestions and will continue to do so, thanks all. I'll also see about updating the thread subject.


----------



## Rik

OK Ladies and Gentlemen. I mentioned in an earlier post that I've had some success gaining satisfaction from DirecTV by bypassing an unhelpful tech support department and instead calling contacts within the company that are higher or much higher up. Below is some contact information, names, titles etc within DirecTV and two of it's subsidiaries (located at the same address). Below that I've included some corporate contact information at TIVO as well. Some of the contacts may be out of date but this should provide something to work with.

Note, I would not normally advocate moving outside of standard channels if some reasonable level of satisfaction were possible or if the request itself was unreasonable. But this issue was first brought forward about a year ago and so far DirecTV doesn't seem to even want to own up to it let alone address it. And the consistent "gee we've never heard of that problem" response is downright infuriating.

There are a lot of contacts so if it seems like folks are not getting anywhere we may all want to coordinate.

Stay in touch.

DirecTV Holdings LLC
2230 E Imperial Highway Floor 10
El Segundo, CA 90245
#310-535-5000

Eddy Hartenstein, CEO
Roxanne Austin, President (note that Roxanne has announced her intention to leave DirecTV once the News Corp acquisition has been completed)
Michael Palkovic, CFO
Keith Causey, Vice President.
Deborah Griffin, Vice President.

DirecTV Enterprises, Inc 
2230 E Imperial Highway Floor 10
El Segundo, CA 90245
#310-535-5000

EDDY W HARTENSTEIN, CHB
ODIE C DONALD, PRES
R L MYERS, EX VP-CFO
BILL CASAMO, VP-SLS MKT
CHIP HENDERSON, DIR-PROCUREMENT
JIM REBMAN, VP-HR, F.
ROBERT WHYTE, vice president info technology
Mike palkovic, cfo.

DirecTV, Inc 
2230 E Imperial Highway 
El Segundo, CA 90245
#310-535-5000

ROXANNE S AUSTIN, PRES-COO (note that Roxanne has announced her intention to leave DirecTV once the News Corp acquisition has been completed)
LARRY CHAPMAN, EX VP-MKTG/ADV
STAN IBARA, CONTROLLER
JIM REDMAN, PURCHASING-ADMINISTRATION
ROBERT M HALL, SR VP-BUS AFFAIRS-GEN COUNSEL
SUSAN COLLINS, SR VP-MARKETING
Francine Harsini, Vice President.
David Anderson, Busn Sys Analyst.
Bob Radke, Czar.
Thuy T Nguyen, Director.
Joshua Crandall, Manager.
Hoan Do, Network Manager.
Richard Chin, Project Manager.
John De Rago, Project Mgr.
Chao K Yang, Sr Scientist.
Elmer Robles, Sr. Computing Spe.
Diane Augustine, Sr. Mgr. Mkg.
Mitchell Dimler, Systems Architecture.
Edward Huguez, Vice President.
Ali Seraj, Broadcast Sys Engr.
Kathryn Scott, Business Manager.
Robert Paock, Chief Information Officer.
Robin Rogers, Corporate Counsel/Legal.
Takehiko Suzuki, Corporate Counsel/Legal.
Jan Farrell, Corporate Counsel/Legal.
Megan Mcnulty, Corporate Counsel/Legal.
Christopher Murphy, Corporate Counsel/Legal.
Tyler Slocum, Department Manager.
Chris Maehara, Dir Chf Mis.
Tom Liang, Dir Eng.
Robert Gabrelli, Director.
Timothy Evans, Director.
Jason Taback, Director.
Stephen Dulac, Director.
Luis Andrade, Director.
Stephen Condon, Director Marketing.
Brian D Smith, Director Property Sals Tx.
Gene Gonzalez, District Director.
Ringo Ling, Engineer.
L W Butterworth, Executive Vice President.
Ellen Scott, Human Resource Consultant.
Erik Kosashih, It.
Tom Pham, It.
Deniet Yan, It.
Donald Greer, It.
Rick Isa, It.
Chris Wendel, It.
Gary Loo, It.
Chris Wegner, It.
Dale Gunder, It.
Jun Shen, It.
Paul Curry, It.
Audrey Esteb, It Project Manager.
Danielle Desmond, It Supervisor.
Joanne Cannetta, IS Manager.
Ken Park, IS/MIS/IT Engineer.
Eric Jansen, Mail Center Sup.
Chris Beavdin, Manager.
Rochelle Stephens, Manager.
Jim Biggam, Manager.
David Marchant, Manager.
Danielle Bialik, Manager.
Jean Bradshaw, Manager.
Mallory Samora, Marketing Manager.
John Phillips, Mgr Lan Mgmt.
Emma Jackson, Mgr Sys Engr.
Diane Ambruso, Mngr of Acqstn Strtgc.
Brad Gunnell, Pay Per View Manager.
Steve Corbin, Proj Manager.
Kim Doll, Proj Manager.
Jimesa Ellington, Project Manager.
Loren Nguyen, Project Manager.
Cuong Q Tran, Project Manager.
William E Steele, Project Manager.
Redentor Gonzales, Project Manager.
Alison Mattiza, Sales Analyst.
Katherine Bradley, Sales Program Coordinator.
Sheldon Wagorn, Senior Manager.
Christi Uhrig, Senior Manager.
Gene Hahn, Senior Project Manager.
Robert Urling, Senior Project Mgr.
Jim Butterword, Senior Vice President.
Shannon Campain, Sr Project Manager.
Michael Robson, Supervisor.
Brian Holland, Supervisor It Ops.
Van Lowe, Engineer.
Michelle Lee, Unit Engineer.
Thomas Lee, Unit Engineer.
Paul James, Vice President.
Christine L Lavalle, Vice Presidnt Prg Pln Prd.
Damyanti Dayaram, Website Designer.
Tony Tomich, Bus Unit Chf Fnncl Offcr.
Pat Taniguchi, Communications Specialist.
Ed Sharrow, Copy Editor.
Kim Hurwitz, Dir.
Victor Blanc, Finance Manager.
Donald Lossing, Manager Sys Oper.
Marilyn Slominski, Senior Dirctr Ppv Schdlng.
Regin Fenny, Senior Manager Prod.
Vicki Foshee, Svp.
Toby Berlin, Svp Prog.
Scott Nordh, V P Sls & Distr.
Robert Sander, Vice President.
Steven Brister, VP Marketing.
Ruty Schiller, VP On Air Promo.

Tivo Inc 
2160 GOLD STREET 
AND BRANCH(ES) OR DIVISION(S)
ALVISO CA 95002 
TEL: 408 519-9100

MICHAEL RAMSAY, CHB-CEO+
MARTIN J YUDKOVITZ, PRES
JAMES BARTON, SR VP RESEARCH & DEV-CTO+
DAVID H COURTNEY, EXEC VP-WORLDWIDE OP-CFO+
TA-WEI CHIEN , SR VP-GM TIVO TECH
MARK A ROBERTS , SR VP ENGINEERING
Stacy Jolna, Vice President.
Bill Dailey, Training Developer.
Susan Cashen, v pres corp communications.
Joe Miller, v pres sales, I.
Karrin Nicol, v pres hum resources, F.
David Platt, SW Engr.
Jeff Cross, Designer.
Jim Manley, Manager.
Brodie Keast, Senior Vice President.
Anandha Krishnan, Sys Administrator.
Howard Look, Vice President.
Bob Vallone, Vice President.
Luther Kitahata, Vice President.
Andrew Cresci, Vice President.
Dean Dipietro, Manager of Operations.
Stuart West, VP Finance


----------



## BlankMan

Good job Rik, lets see if I can figure out their email naming convention.


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## BlankMan

Well well well... I just got a call from Bryan at DirecTV in response to my continuing emails and I now have 3 months of free Showtime due to this problem. But of course he was unaware of the problem and could not provide any further information as what if anything DirecTV is doing....


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## Clark

I've had this problem for a least the past year. I thought that I just had a defective tivo (my modded tivo so far hasn't had these problems). I have been toying around with the idea of doing a major hack on my problem tivo and this thread is increasing the probability of me putting extreme on it to see if the problem goes away.


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## BlankMan

After testing a number of formats I think I struck on the one that works, I have sent an email to all of the below addresses and none of them have bounced and it has been over 6 hours, whereas the bad formats bounced almost immediately.

I didn't send to people in IT, Legal, etc. so this list is just of the remaining. The more email they get the better the chance someone may get DirecTV to do something about it.

But don't send to all at once, I sent individually. DirecTV's SMTP server seems to have a limit on how many people you can send to in a single message, probably to protect from SPAM.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
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[email protected]
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[email protected]
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[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
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[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
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[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]


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## stevel

Oh, I'm sure all those people will just LOVE that you exposed their addresses to spammers' web scrapers....


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## kevinm

A few well written emails to the appropriate people are far better then everyone flaming them.

This could border on harrasment.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Oh, I'm sure all those people will just LOVE that you exposed their addresses to spammers' web scrapers.... *


 Yeah I know, not the necessarily the right thing to do. But neither is ignoring the problem. If their business policy wasn't to try and sweep problems under the carpet we wouldn't be having this conversation, ergo there would be no email addresses posted. Not a strong justification I know, but when you repeatedly report a problem and they repeatedly deny any knowledge of it, you begin to think they are operating in that mode on purpose. The same thing happened with the stuck on 28% problem, for months they denied it. I have no remorse posting those email addressees in light of how DirecTV operates their Support Organization and directly telling TiVo personal not to comment on the subject any more. It's a cover up. So if their Support Organization is not allowed to help, then bypass them and start emailing the people that make these decisions, in mass.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *This could border on harrasment. *


 Reporting a problem to them and asking for their help because going through their normal channels is not working can hardly be viewed as harassment in my mind. They may think so, but when normal channels do not work, you bypass those channels. And it's very obvious from personal experience and numerous posts that DirecTV's Support Organization is definitely not able to remedy the problem.

I say everyone that has the problem should send them a nice email asking that it be acknowledged and addressed.


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## kevinm

There is a DirecTV support rep that recently joined this forum. I sent him a PM last night asking about this issue. He said he was unaware of it, but will check on it first this morning.

Given the size of their support organization, I would not be surprised if their system has grouped all these reports with the 1000's they get / day for other more generic problems.

As far as "directly telling TiVo personal not to comment" I've seen that mentioned by you a few times but have not read who said that and where the information came from. Can you site the source again?


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## kevinm

One other question.... Has anyone escalated this to DirecTV management prior to this? A diplomatic liaison is a much better first approach then carpet bombing.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *There is a DirecTV support rep that recently joined this forum. I sent him a PM last night asking about this issue. He said he was unaware of it, but will check on it first this morning.
> 
> Given the size of their support organization, I would not be surprised if their system has grouped all these reports with the 1000's they get / day for other more generic problems.
> 
> As far as "directly telling TiVo personal not to comment" I've seen that mentioned by you a few times but have not read who said that and where the information came from. Can you site the source again? *


 I've been PM'ing with a CSR for quite a while now, the news I get is not good.

Why are you dwelling on who? I will not reveal who at TiVo told me that, but it was more then one. Enough said.


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## kevinm

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *I've been PM'ing with a CSR for quite a while now, the news I get is not good.
> Why are you dwelling on who? I will not reveal who at TiVo told me that, but it was more then one. Enough said. *


Well because I do have some concerns with you publishing an exec management email list and telling everyone reading this post (currently 13100 views) to flood their mail boxes based on only your conversations. The word I am thinking of is "incite".

BlankMan, I understand you are frustrated and rightfully so. I just wonder if another approach is for you to be a liaison vs a general. As I understand it you have worked with many low-level people at DirecTV and a few at Tivo. Now that you know who to escalate to at DirecTV, perhaps you can take this case there and let us know how the diplomacy is going before taking more drastic measures.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *Well because I do have some concerns with you publishing an exec management email list and telling everyone reading this post (currently 13100 views) to flood their mail boxes based on only your conversations. The word I am thinking of is "incite".
> 
> BlankMan, I understand you are frustrated and rightfully so. I just wonder if another approach is for you to be a liaison vs a general. As I understand it you have worked with many low-level people at DirecTV and a few at Tivo. Now that you know who to escalate to at DirecTV, perhaps you can take this case there and let us know how the diplomacy is going before taking more drastic measures. *


 I have no more pull with anyone at TiVo or anywhere else then another else here, I was told some things in private email and asked to be vague if I repeat it.

You or someone else want to be diplomatic with DirecTV, go right ahead. After seven months of dealing with DirecTV every time this has happened and being told to reboot the unit, do a clear and delete to fix it, or replace the unit, diplomacy, in my opinion does not work with DirecTV.

They have had seven months of my dealing with them with this issue, and even longer with other people. They still continue to deny there is a problem, let alone attempt to correct it. No, it's time to take the gloves off, no holds barred.

You remind me of another person at this Forum who stuck up for DirecTV's Support Organization. They have a very poor track record when dealing with any DTiVo problems, they do not acknowledge problems, it does not appear they share information between CSR's, every time you call you have to start from square one and explain the problem over and over. I really believe that is done on purpose and DirecTV hopes that you will tire of it and just go away. You all come in here spouting how to use DirecTV's Support, how to be diplomatic, yada yada yada, don't you think that if diplomacy was going to work, it should have in seven months? In over a year? Doh!

I am not trying to incite as you say. When the normal means are not working, you take it to the next level.

You go be diplomatic and come back and tell us when you got them to fix this problem.


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## wired711

Given the long drawn out history of getting next to nothing useful in the way of a response from DirecTV on this issue despite sincere and more normal business accepted approaches I would have to essentially agree with Blankman's current direction. The only thing I would suggest as a modifier is that we wait say, 1 week to see if Blankman gets any meaningful responses from his emails (this is somewhat similar to the last suggestion). However, if after a week and no meaningful responses that look like this is going somewhere positive.. then we all do our part and email as well. Of course by now perhaps some of you have already emailed but perhaps the rest of us can wait until say Jan 7th. What do you think? Other ideas?

How freak'n long are we supposed to wait for the decency of even an acknowledgement anyway? I guess eventually we'll all buy the next new unit that hopefully won't have this problem (some conspiracy theorists suggested that this is what they are trying to make us do by not responding) but then again the next new thing will probably have some other issue and we'll be at this all over again. We have to make a statement somehow that this is NOT acceptable support (or lack thereof) practice and of course to get this particular issue fixed once and for all!

Thanks for your efforts Blankman.

Doug


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## Mark Lopez

Well, I got a call back about an e-mail I sent. Once again, I got the 'We never heard of that'. When I asked how they couldn't have heard of it when I personally have called at least 5 times, she couldn't give me an answer. I then (again) told her about this forum (which I had supplied a link in the e-mail) and asked if she looked. Of course the e-mail had already gone into some black hole, so she didn't see it.  I stayed calm and explained everything including all of the troubleshooting we have done here. I even offered up the theory that they are intentionally brushing this under the rug. She immediately denied that, but still could not explain why they had no record of this when I and others have called and e-mailed so many times. It finally got to the point where she didn't know what to say. Anyway, it was pretty much a waste of time.


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## seymouru

Mark, that's really discouraging. The stonewall response you received on that call pretty much sums up how they're handling this problem:

a) Denial that it's been reported before, and
b) No response when confronted with mountains of evidence that it _has_ been reported before.

Stonewalling is by definition a non-response to a reasonable question ("To refuse to answer or cooperate," according to dictionary.com). Clearly that's what we're dealing with here. Diplomacy doesn't usually work against this tactic, and it hasn't so far with DirecTV.


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## MadScience

While it's sad that there are 300+ message on this subject and not one helpful response from DirecTV it does make me feel better to read that I'm not the only one having this issue.

This has happened repeatedly over the last year with the suggestion always to reboot the system or erase everything and set it up fresh. Do you know that CSRs have actually suggested to me that my hard drive might be dying and that's the cause for this weird behavior. And until I read this thread and the one on 'Acquiring Guide Date From Satellite?' I was beginning to believe them. I was actually starting to shop around for a new DirecTV TiVo unit.

So ... thank you to all who have posted!!


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## BlankMan

Doug, that was my plan, when ever I email I give them at least a week to respond before I forward it to them again asking for some response. In this cause due to the Holiday I was planning on the end of next week, pretty much what you said. And thanks, I was beginning to think I was the only one getting frustrated enough to try something.

Mark, if you haven't, get the CSR's name and ID number, I've been doing that to prove I spoke with someone.


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## Rik

I would agree with Doug and Blankman. Give it about a week to give the higher ups a chance to respond. After that ... well ... there's power in numbers. Although I think we should consider picking out specific contacts. We can all then bring our problem to those contacts. I believe we should combine e-mails with telephone calls as e-mails are too easy to ignore. I made quite a bit of progress (actually all of it) via the phone on my prior issue.


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## hookbill

I haven't posted on this thread for a while because I haven't experienced the problem for a couple of months now. I am astonished to see that even after what is it, 9 months of complaining DTV is still stonewalling on this issue.

The purpose of me adding to this thread at this time is just to thank Blankman for his work and persistance in starting this thread. He's taking a lot of heat from some individuals around here and stuck to his guns. Great job, Blankman.

I'll be more then happy to send an e-mail of to one of those execs. I'll probably go to the top, and see what response I get.


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## sorahl

Is this problem happening with all Direct Tivo's or just some?


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## stevel

It doesn't happen with S2 DTiVos (HDVR2, etc.) Otherwise, there's no particular pattern to suggest that some S1 DTiVos are immune. Some people see the problem more often than others.


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## sorahl

Thanks Steve....


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## SAFW

I've experienced 2 losses of my channel lists in the last month on my modified SAT-T60. Both coincided with bad weather, so I chalked it up to a satellite error. The CSR had never heard of such a failure, and recccomended a full power-down restart. 

If anyone is keeping tally, add me to the growing list.



SAFW


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## Dirac

It happened again this morning on my Sony.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by SAFW _
> *If anyone is keeping tally, add me to the growing list.
> *


 IMO that is what this thread in part is doing.


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## schaltegger

Add me, too. 

Last night my second unit insisted that no channels (or guide data, either) were available except the HBO - Showtime block and the channels in between. This corresponded to a loss of Nashville locals, too, on my other unit (which did not suffer the guide issues). I rebooted the bedroom unit (clearing the thumbs/guide data as well). It took over 90 minutes to come back up but when it did, the channels were all available again (although I'm going to have to redo all my thumbs and season passes. Coincidentally or not, by the time the second unit had completed rebooting, Nashville locals were back up.


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## BrettStah

schaltegger, next time don't clear the guide data/thumbs data. Just restart. Much quicker, and fixes the same problem (for me, at least).


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## schaltegger

Thanks for the tip, Brett; I didn't hit the 'net to figure out this was a "known" issue until this morning. Since my unmodded living room unit wasn't affected and since my locals were down on both, I suspected that perhaps DTV was fooling with the bitstream to defeat hackers and in the process glitched my guide data. If this was the case, I figured I needed to rebuild the guide data from scratch. I only had four or five season passes on that unit anyway so it's no big deal, provided it doesn't start recording cartoons again (like it did when it was new: every day I'd have an episode or two of anything from Dexter's Laboratory to Magilla Gorilla!)


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## BlankMan

Well got home tonight to find my TiVo2 unit got nailed again within the last 24 hours. I was watching it last night and it was just fine. Now the Favorite Channels list is gone once again and all that is left in the Channels I Receive list is:

173 184 196 271 284 371 374 411 412 428 456 490 492 494 583 590 627 719 891 892 793 845 847 849 850 851

I emailed DirecTV Support to inform them that it happened again, and emailed that list of Exec's. I know I said that I was going to wait until the end of next week but this is too frustrating. Had it not happened before then I would have waited.

In the email I explained it happened again and I included the email that I have been forwarding to their Support Organization every time, adding each occurrence. With that, they will know every time it has happened to me going back to May 2003 when I started tracking it.

I also asked their Support Organization that is denying the problem exists, why then did they give me three months of free Showtime for the trouble a nonexistent problem is causing me?


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## Rik

Great job Blankman. You should also refer the list of execs to this thread.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Rik _
> *Great job Blankman. You should also refer the list of execs to this thread. *


 Thanks, but, I don't getcha?


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## Rik

You should send them the link to this thread so they can see the length and breadth of the issue from many of us who have experienced it. A single e-mail from you might make it appear to them to be an isolated issue.


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## BlankMan

I did in my first email to them earlier in the week, and I have sent it in the past to their Support Organizaton.


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## MauriAnne

For those keeping track.....My series1 had the problem (again... I think this is time #3) last week. I lost both the channels I receive as well as the favorites.


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## Dirac

Every time it's happened to me, my Favorites list is blanked, but my Channels I Receive includes (nearly) every channel. So at least I haven't missed any recordings because of it. I have lost count as to how many times this has happened.


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## rossboulet

Add me to the list as well. My Sony T-60 has had the problem at least three times in the last six months. It seems confined to the Favorites list disappearing.


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## toon-time

Same problem here on stock (non-hacked) Sony T-60. It happened most recently over the Christmas break. It was about the 5th time it has happened in the past year.


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## SPJones

I am a new forum member and just read this thread. I have a DirectTV dish and Phillips DSR7000 (r-17) sitting in boxes and was going to call on Monday to set up an appointment with an installer. Would you all recommend that I just return it all and buy a regular Tivo and keep my cable hook up? I won't be able to record one channel while watching another, but it seems with no support from DirectTV that may be my best bet. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.

S.P. Jones
Atlanta


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## drew2k

SPJones - I think the DSR7000 is a newer model, considered "2nd generation" or "series 2", so you should probably not experience any issues with the favorite channels disappearing. That problem seems to only be afflicting Series 1 boxes. 

I would say go ahead and set up you appointment to install the DirecTV dish and box. You'll love the dual tuners, which gives you more recording flexibility than the StandAlone TiVos, especially when programs start and end at weird times.

Welcom to the forum and to the TiVolution!


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## mschwab

I posted a poll on some of the variations of this problem over a year ago:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75898

and almost 60 people had seen some version of this, while over 70 had not.

I stopped even trying to set my CYR or Favorites list shortly after that - I just leave CYR with all channels checked, and ignore the extra channels that show up in View Upcoming, etc. I also have not used Suggestions in the five years I've been using TiVos, so I don't have to worry about Suggestions from bad channels. My few Wishlists must be specific enough that they don't pick up bad channels.

And I don't believe I've seen any such problems since! Before that, I was probably seeing the same frequency reported here, but mostly of the CYR having everything re-checked variety. I have a DSR6000 and a HDVR2. Since my DSR6000 is upgraded to 230 hours I'm not in a hurry to upgrade it, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## hookbill

> _Originally posted by SPJones _
> *I am a new forum member and just read this thread. I have a DirectTV dish and Phillips DSR7000 (r-17) sitting in boxes and was going to call on Monday to set up an appointment with an installer. Would you all recommend that I just return it all and buy a regular Tivo and keep my cable hook up? I won't be able to record one channel while watching another, but it seems with no support from DirectTV that may be my best bet. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.
> 
> S.P. Jones
> Atlanta *


It's not that Direct TV doesn't give any support. They do, but this is one issue that they seem to be sweeping under the carpet.

I would definitly NOT return your D-Tivo for cable. As bad as this may appear to you, my experience with cable is that they give far less support then DTV does.


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## parzec

Add me to the list. One of my DSR6000's lost all "Received Channels" over the week of Dec 13-Dec 22 while I was out of town. Came back to a Tivo that didn't record any of my season passes. It added some receieved channels over that time so my channel list was under 1 page (I didn't note which channels they were, but I'm sure it was Jems, Home Shopping, QVC, the Church Channel, etc. all the channels that see to contantly pop up even after you manually delete them)


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## Agatha Mystery

Well, I can be added to the list as well. I've got a Huges GXCEBOTD. Twice during december, I lost my "Channels I receive". It seemed that when I lost everything, I had a handfull of channels, and the only ones that recorded were my son's on Cartoon Network. I probably missed a day or two of shows, but I've been checking just to be sure. With the current erroneous "Acquiring Program Data" message, I've been checking my ToDo list just to be sure. 

Both times, I rebooted the system and had to reset my favorites. I always leave the channels that I receive set to all, solely because this has happened in the past (as well as some channels going back and forth and getting re-added to the lineup on my favorites). I've finally started keeping a list of the channels that I have to edit out of my 'favorites' next to my chair to make it quicker to re-select my channels.


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## Dirac

> _Originally posted by SPJones _
> *I am a new forum member and just read this thread. I have a DirectTV dish and Phillips DSR7000 (r-17) sitting in boxes and was going to call on Monday to set up an appointment with an installer. Would you all recommend that I just return it all and buy a regular Tivo and keep my cable hook up? I won't be able to record one channel while watching another, but it seems with no support from DirectTV that may be my best bet. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.
> 
> S.P. Jones
> Atlanta *


NO NO NO!!!  Keep those DTiVos!!! The channels problem is a minor annoyance compared to the joy one derives from these babies. The MAJOR annoyance is the fact that DirecTV is quite obviously deceiving its customers by saying to scores of different callers that no one else has reported the problem.


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## Hokyfan

I just spoke to an "Expanded Services" technician regarding the problem. (This was - of course - after talking to a regular tech about it for 10 minutes!)

I started to explain the problem, and he interrupted me and told me what is was. He said he had a _few_ calls about the problem. Although it is know, they have not been able to duplicate it.

HERE IS THE IMPORTANT INFO

I told him about this post and he said, "I'm aware that there is a long post about the problem, but it seems people would rather post the problem then call DirecTV."

He told me that DTV was starting to collect info on which exact series 1 boxes are having the problem. He said that they are getting all the account info *for the people that call in* and compiling it to go to the manufacturer with.

SO....

*Please call tech support and ask for an expanded services tech. Tell him that you are having this problem and it was suggested you call and let DTV know so they can trace down the problem.*

He did confirm that this is a series 1 problem only.


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## Bnocab

Happened to me again on Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Not sure since there was no recording set until Sunday and it did not record. I just call DTV and got escaladed to Tivo help desk. The gentleman I spoke to knew of the issue and said they have become aware of the issue in the last couple of weeks. 

Thanks Blankman for getting most of us to jump on the bandwagon and call DTV on the issue. Those who didn't call, well you should have.


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## Rik

> _Originally posted by Hokyfan _
> *
> SO....
> 
> Please call tech support and ask for an expanded services tech. Tell him that you are having this problem and it was suggested you call and let DTV know so they can trace down the problem.
> 
> He did confirm that this is a series 1 problem only. *


This really doesn't make sense and certainly doesn't seem like a potential solution. "Go to the manufacturer"? Which manufacturer? It's happened with Philips, Sony & Hughes so I can't see how this offering is any more than window dressing or another stall tactic.
Second ... this has been going on for more than a year. Again ... this looks like little more than a stall.


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## BlankMan

And the fact that DirecTV says they can't reproduce it when E. Stephen Mack (TiVoOpsMgr) told me that they (TiVo) were able to reproduce it and raised it as a priority fix with DirecTV. There was no mention that it was hardware or manufacture dependent.

So, can DirecTV be that big that they can't disseminate information internally, or is policy to stonewall their customers? (I'm stopping short of saying lying to their customers, but not by much.)

On another note, I had a call from DirecTV on my answering machine last night when I got home. But all they ever say is call them back and leave the 800 number. They never say what it's about. So is is due to my email to Customer Support over the weekend due to another occurrence? Is it due to my emails to the Exec's?

For the "Expanded Services" technician that said we'd rather post here I wish someone would inform him that having to call DirecTV and jump through all their hoops explaining the problem as a new problem every time because "no one else has reported that" and them telling you to reboot, or clear and delete or call Sony then call them back if they can't fix it. Last time I went that route and spent 65 minutes on the phone in three calls explaining it from scratch each time. And he wonders why people don't call it in?? Doh! He should try it sometime, practice what you preach.

I forward an email each time with the additional occurrence, so each time I send it they have the full history.


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## BrettStah

I'm leaning towards the "they can't disseminate information internally" theory, mixed in with "they aren't properly categorizing/analyzing this issue when people call in" theory. Why? Because there is a very helpful CSR who posts over at www.dbsforums.com named maryruth, and when I brought this thread to her attention she said she hadn't heard of it, and she checked her computer system and didn't see anything mentioned about it. I trust her that she's not stonewalling/lying/etc. too.


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## stevel

I am struck by the contrast betweem the problem in this thread and the one here - in the latter, TiVo and DirecTV are falling over themselves to correct what is admitted to be a "cosmetic" problem, but for an issue where recordings fail to be made and the "channels I receive" list is corrupted, it's "we can't talk about that".


----------



## Hokyfan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *I am struck by the contrast betweem the problem in this thread and the one here - in the latter, TiVo and DirecTV are falling over themselves to correct what is admitted to be a "cosmetic" problem, but for an issue where recordings fail to be made and the "channels I receive" list is corrupted, it's "we can't talk about that". *


Another item that bothers me is the comment made when I spoke to the rep - his "quick fix" was to buy the $99 series 2 - since the problem only exists with series 1 boxes.

Can you say, "Sweep it under the rug?"


----------



## kevinm

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *I'm leaning towards the "they can't disseminate information internally" theory, mixed in with "they aren't properly categorizing/analyzing this issue when people call in" theory. Why? Because there is a very helpful CSR who posts over at www.dbsforums.com named maryruth, and when I brought this thread to her attention she said she hadn't heard of it, and she checked her computer system and didn't see anything mentioned about it. I trust her that she's not stonewalling/lying/etc. too. *


No, that can't be it. They must be corrupt, evil, conspiring liers. I read it here didn't I.

Based on this thread and guessing the actual number of people who have *reported* this service impacting problem, it must account for at least .0001% of the DirecTV daily call volume. That should be at least enough for them to modify their ticketing system and add in a new error code.


----------



## kevinm

> _Originally posted by Hokyfan _
> *Another item that bothers me is the comment made when I spoke to the rep - his "quick fix" was to buy the $99 series 2 - since the problem only exists with series 1 boxes.
> 
> Can you say, "Sweep it under the rug?" *


Oh yes... that is part of the conspiracy. The whole business plan behind DirecTV and Tivo is to piss off the mass market enough that they *want* to go out and buy more hardware. The CSRs are actually highly trained and well paid sales people.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *No, that can't be it. They must be corrupt, evil, conspiring liers. I read it here didn't I.
> 
> Based on this thread and guessing the actual number of people who have reported this service impacting problem, it must account for at least .0001% of the DirecTV daily call volume. That should be at least enough for them to modify their ticketing system and add in a new error code. *





> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *Oh yes... that is part of the conspiracy. The whole business plan behind DirecTV and Tivo is to piss off the mass market enough that they want to go out and buy more hardware. The CSRs are actually highly trained and well paid sales people. *


 I don't understand why you have a tendency to go to bat for DirecTV at times. It is a documented problem, it has existed for over a year, going on two, in that time they should have enough information to acknowledge it. It only took days for them to acknowledge the recent "Acquiring Guide Data" message problem. They did the same thing with the DTiVo's getting stuck at 28% problem, they denied that for a long time also. They definitely show a pattern of behavior.

And this isn't the first time someone that has called in and been told to replace the unit for $99. That in and of itself is totally unacceptable. No one should have to fork out cash to correct their problem. At the least they should offer it for free. Even that still would not be acceptable to me. Not unless they can replace it with a 230 hour unit that runs TiVo Web so I can access it remotely as needed.


----------



## kevinm

I'm not "going to bat" for DirecTV, I'm commenting on the conclusions some have jumped to based on very limited information. I've agreed with the problem and the fact that DirecTV should do a far better job with issues like this. But, I disagree with the conspiracy theorists.

No one here really knows the full story, but some are quick with making DirecTV Policy inferences from first line CSR comments. I believe that it is more probable that the few that have experienced and reported this problem during the last year never asked for it to get escalated until recently. I have two Series1's and 1S2 and only had the problem once. I called in and a reset cleared it. I would not think twice about it if I did not read this forum.

Unlike a "stuck at 28% problem", the symptoms of this issue could be 1 of 20 known problems on the first line CSR list. For the past year they have been going with that as the solution. It is also possible that it only got on the DirecTV management radar screen recently.

Hypothetically, say this is now a "known" issue in DirecTV management. Say they also have a fix. My money says to do a code roll out is no small or inexpensive task. They probably also don't have a good grasp on the real scope of the issue. How many people are really effected, how often and is the workaround fixing 99% of those for months at a time. This thread helps better understand the problem, but does not do well understanding the scope of the bug. It's also loaded with hearsay information.

Again, I'm not trying to take DirecTVs side, but I am a realists and not going to join a mob attacking a company over the one sided evidence presented so far.


----------



## kevinm

PS Normally I would have lurked in this thread and not commented, but the posting of dozens of peoples email addresses and inciting the masses to email them set me off. I still think that was bad form.

And with that..... I'm spent.... My .02 is used up on this.


----------



## Cajonkev

Well I guess I will jump on the band wagon at least a bit.

I have been a loyal TiVo subscriber since my first HDR-112 back in 99 and like most/all of you couldn't live without it. So I know everyone is complaining out of love for the great things, and concern that the issues get addressed.

I currently have two DSR6000's and have had the Fav. channel/Channels recevied "reset" issue ever since I purchased them. I have always done the reboot, reset season passes/channel/fav's as it has seemed to be a minor problem that I figured DTV/TiVO would fix.

Well, my family and I came home at 0200 PST this past Saturday (1/3) from vacation and I noticed that both of our units were gettijg a service download from DTV (Sat not modem call).

The next A.M. BOTH of my units lost channel lock and had to be hard booted. They then showed program data flagged at one day only (although they have the full data set loaded if you manually check). Season Passes, Fav's had to be reset, and the channels received had reset to "all" channels. 

Currently, both of my units give a message of "Acquiring guide data from satellite, some channels may be available now, full data available in 1-2 days."

Of course it has been 3 days now with no change. I have of course reset/re-booted both units again and have forced the manual program call. No luck.

So I am planning on calling DTV but would also appreciate an update as to where this is at with DTV/TiVo. I checked beginning and end, but 19 pages and growing seemed a little much to dig through.

Is there a current ident/fix? Any suggestions as to what to say when I call and play "What's the Deal?" As always, any help is appreciated and my goal beyond getting them back to 100% health is to ensure that the problem is commonly reported/identified so that DTV/TiVo get a good read on how widespread this really is.

And boy am I anxious for them to release the new HD unit...


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by Cajonkev _
> *Currently, both of my units give a message of "Acquiring guide data from satellite, some channels may be available now, full data available in 1-2 days."
> 
> Of course it has been 3 days now with no change. I have of course reset/re-booted both units again and have forced the manual program call. No luck.
> *


That problem is described here http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151320

Short version - it's just a cosmetic problem although others have reported other anomalies.


----------



## BrettStah

Cajonkev, there is a separate known issue with the "Acquiring guide data" message. Check this forum for details...


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *I'm not "going to bat" for DirecTV, I'm commenting on the conclusions some have jumped to based on very limited information. I've agreed with the problem and the fact that DirecTV should do a far better job with issues like this. But, I disagree with the conspiracy theorists.
> 
> No one here really knows the full story, but some are quick with making DirecTV Policy inferences from first line CSR comments. I believe that it is more probable that the few that have experienced and reported this problem during the last year never asked for it to get escalated until recently. I have two Series1's and 1S2 and only had the problem once. I called in and a reset cleared it. I would not think twice about it if I did not read this forum.
> 
> Unlike a "stuck at 28% problem", the symptoms of this issue could be 1 of 20 known problems on the first line CSR list. For the past year they have been going with that as the solution. It is also possible that it only got on the DirecTV management radar screen recently.
> 
> Hypothetically, say this is now a "known" issue in DirecTV management. Say they also have a fix. My money says to do a code roll out is no small or inexpensive task. They probably also don't have a good grasp on the real scope of the issue. How many people are really effected, how often and is the workaround fixing 99% of those for months at a time. This thread helps better understand the problem, but does not do well understanding the scope of the bug. It's also loaded with hearsay information.
> 
> Again, I'm not trying to take DirecTVs side, but I am a realists and not going to join a mob attacking a company over the one sided evidence presented so far. *


 No one here knows the full story because DirecTV is purposefully hushing it up and telling any one that does know the full story not to comment. How many times do you have to be told that before you get it?

Here, I'll say it again, TiVo reproduced the problem and went to DirecTV and raised it as a priority fix with DirecTV. That is a quote. DirecTV's response was to tell TiVo representatives not to comment on it anymore and DirecTV is not commenting on it either. Now, doesn't that smell like a cover up to you? It does to me.

And just because the customers affected may be only a small percentage of the total, that's justification to cover it up? I think not.

Can you say that DirecTV would not ever try to push Second Generation DTiVo's so that the Series 1 units that are experiencing the problem are replaced? Oh no, they're above that. They'd never do that. Yeah right. I however, would not rule that out so fast.

And the work around you state does not "fix" the problem. Sure it gets your Channels I Receive back, but it doesn't get you Favorite Channels list back. Nor does prevent scheduled recordings from not being recorded because the Guide Data was also lost for the channels it lost. Yeah, that's a real fix.

And for publishing the list of email address I have no remorse. I've been dealing with DirecTV for going on 8 months now on this problem, I have all the documentation to back up that statement. And it continues to fall on deaf ears. No, when that happens you have to take it to the next level because it's very obvious that normal channels do not work.

If you think there was (is) a better way, you go have DirecTV resolve this problem and come back and tell us when you have gotten that done. I think I already said that here also. It's becoming obvious that you need to be told things more then once, or, you choose to ignore a lot of the facts.

I wonder if you'd be so tolerant with your new car that you're making payments on if it decided once every week or so it would not let you exceed 40 MPH but pulling over and shutting it off then restarting it fixed the problem. I bet not, you'd want that fixed.


----------



## kevinm

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *No one here knows the full story because DirecTV is purposefully hushing it up and telling any one that does know the full story not to comment. How many times do you have to be told that before you get it? *


Can you tell me one more time.... I like to hear the same hearsay rumors over and over again.... Plus, when we don't have the whole story, it is so much fun to fill in the holes with conspiracy!!


> *
> Here, I'll say it again, TiVo reproduced the problem and went to DirecTV and raised it as a priority fix with DirecTV. That is a quote. DirecTV's response was to tell TiVo representatives not to comment on it anymore and DirecTV is not commenting on it either. Now, doesn't that smell like a cover up to you? It does to me.*


Thank you... It really wasn't clear that past 3 times _*you*_ made this claim. Glad you cleared that up. Perhaps there is another explanation for this business decision... No, that is no fun... It *HAS* to be a secret plot!!! Hey... I saw some Tivo code and guess what was in it??? 


> bash-2.02# grep BlankMan /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit
> function getBlankMan () {for slowdown in $tivocomplains; do; noop; done; rmchannels(random)}


They are * definitely* out to get you BlankMan!!


> *
> And just because the customers affected may be only a small percentage of the total, that's justification to cover it up? I think not.
> *


 
Cover up?  ummm ... Business decisions and marketing... well, yeah... I guess a cover up... * unlike any seen before in a business!!* Can't really answer that one, but keep going with your massive DirecTV cover up thoughts.


> *
> Can you say that DirecTV would not ever try to push Second Generation DTiVo's so that the Series 1 units that are experiencing the problem are replaced? Oh no, they're above that. They'd never do that. Yeah right. I however, would not rule that out so fast.
> *


 
Yeah... that makes a lot of sense.... I have the fix for the box you own, but don't want to give it to you. I would rather sell you a replacement box that cost me $200 for $99 and piss you off in the process....Reputation be damned!!!


----------



## kevinm

One other thing... Instead of regurgitating the same statements over and over again, you may want to read some of the things I wrote earlier and think of other possibilities for their actions. 

"You may be right, but you may be crazy"


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## Rik

Settle down KevinM. Blankman has been pretty diligent on behalf of all of us. If you don't want to read it ... don't.


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## kevinm

There were a lot of question marks in his statement... I felt obligated to respond.


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## Rik

he's fired up ... and this situation warrants it.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *Can you tell me one more time.... I like to hear the same hearsay rumors over and over again.... Plus, when we don't have the whole story, it is so much fun to fill in the holes with conspiracy!!
> 
> bash-2.02# grep BlankMan /etc/rc.d/rc.sysinit
> function getBlankMan () {for slowdown in $tivocomplains; do; noop; done;
> rmchannels(random)}
> 
> Thank you... It really wasn't clear that past 3 times you made this claim. Glad you cleared that up. Perhaps there is another explanation for this business decision... No, that is no fun... It HAS to be a secret plot!!! Hey... I saw some Tivo code and guess what was in it???
> 
> They are  definitely out to get you BlankMan!!
> *
> Cover up?  ummm ... Business decisions and marketing... well, yeah... I guess a cover up... * unlike any seen before in a business!!* Can't really answer that one, but keep going with your massive DirecTV cover up thoughts.
> 
> Yeah... that makes a lot of sense.... I have the fix for the box you own, but don't want to give it to you. I would rather sell you a replacement box that cost me $200 for $99 and piss you off in the process....Reputation be damned!!! [/B]


 Thanks Rik.

Kevinm, a lot of questions in my statement? Hmmm. You think you're pretty cute, eh? Well let me tell you two things which I'm sure you've heard many times before, your not cute (that is in your posts) and you're not adding anything that adds value to this thread. Now tell me, why would I be making claims and posting facts if they were not true? To what end? I have the documentation to back them up. But you think I need to share that with you. What makes you think you're so high and almighty that you should be privy to that? I've almost said too much of what I was told, in my personal opinion, and because DirecTV has asked TiVo representatives to not comment on it I hope I am not saying more then they wished I would.

If what I am saying weren't true, DirecTV would know that and see through that immediately. That would serve no purpose and surely not improve the chances of getting this fixed. And they are aware of this thread, others have reported that.

Where did I ever claim that it was a conspiracy? All I said was I wouldn't put it past them to suggest replacing the unit as a way out for them to stop the problem from occurring. The fewer Series 1 DTiVo's out there, the less chance of the problem occurring. And don't think it doesn't cost DirecTV something to fix this. TiVo still owns and writes the code, DirecTV would probably have to pay TiVo something for the fix and for rolling it out. If there is not a good business reason to do that, like the percentage of the affected customers is low, then DirecTV may chose not to spend that money. So as you say, it may be a business decision. That could also explain why they are not acknowledging it because to acknowledge it with no intention of fixing it would be one of the worst things they could do.

You're questioning my credibility and calling what I say hearsay without any basis to do that. I'd bet you anything that the TiVo employees that monitor this Forum and for sure have been following this thread and know what I have been saying is the truth are getting a good laugh reading your posts. So I guess they do have value for them at least.

You do not seem interested in having this problem corrected, so then let it go, don't waste time posting in this thread. If you're a non-believer then move on. You've moved away from the intent of this thread, which is to track this problem any hopefully put enough pressure on DirecTV to correct this problem, and instead are just picking apart posts that you do not agree with.

You're not helping this at all, you're now trying to incite as evidenced by your line by line responses. When you have something of value to add, do feel free to come back and post.

<added>

Oh and the one thing you failed to comment on was my response that your workaround is not an adequate fix. I guess you even know it is not, eh? It goes to show that you ignore the facts that do not support your opinion.


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## kevinm

BlankMan,

Perhaps it is better to comment on what I agree with you on based on my experiences vs what I read from a guy who heard from guy that works at Tivo who heard from a guy that works at DirecTV.

1) There is a problem
2) It does temporarily impact peoples service
3) DirecTV has not fixed it but the work around allows the Tivo to be functional again for an unspecified period of time
4) The scope of the issue is not well understood by the people here

I agree with the original spirit and effort of the thread. Other than that everything else is what one wants to believe. 

There is really no such thing as "the truth". What is true to you, is what you believe.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kevinm _
> *BlankMan,
> 
> Perhaps it is better to comment on what I agree with you on based on my experiences vs what I read from a guy who heard from guy that works at Tivo who heard from a guy that works at DirecTV.
> 
> 1) There is a problem
> 2) It does temporarily impact peoples service
> 3) DirecTV has not fixed it but the work around allows the Tivo to be functional again for an unspecified period of time
> 4) The scope of the issue is not well understood by the people here
> 
> I agree with the original spirit and effort of the thread. Other than that everything else is what one wants to believe.
> 
> There is really no such thing as "the truth". What is true to you, is what you believe. *


 As long as you adjust #3. Even with the workaround the DTiVo may fail to record programs because it may have lost Guide Data for the channels it lost and therefore not know about the program so it can't record it. This has happened to me and to others and is documented by the DTiVo itself in the Recording History info. You keep glossing over this fact and in my opinion is not trivial, the whole purpose of a DirecTV Receiver with TiVo is to record programs, if it can't do that it is not performing it's function, otherwise a plain old DirecTV Receiver would suffice.

You keep stating in this thread the workaround is an adequate stopgap solution and people may believe that when in fact it is not adequate. It may fail to record a program and it does not restore the Favorite Channels list for those that use it. That has to be done manually and it is frustrating to have to do that every week or so. All the workaround does is restore the Channels I Receive list. Period.

The "truth" to me is what I have been told by people that I respect and are in a position to be in the know. I doubt they have told un-truths.

I thought you buried the hatchet?


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## BrettStah

Has anyone else who has gotten the "Channel Not Available" bug hit them done what I've done? Namely, reboot and then leave all channel lists alone? Knock on wood, but it's been a couple of months or longer probably since I've had the symptoms of that bug appear. It's still not an ideal fix, since I'd prefer to modify the Channels I Receive list (but I don't normally worry about the Favorites list), but in the meantime (because I'm still hopeful a software fix will be forthcoming) I can live with it.


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## cvarner

Brett-
Your solution is fine for ensuring that your programs get recorded, but for those of us that use the Favorite Channels list, this issue is still a huge problem. It's a time-consuming PITA to redo this list (and the Channels I Receive list) each time the box gets zapped.


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## BrettStah

Yes, I agree... I'm just curious if anyone else who's had this happen multiple times has also just given up modifying the channel lists like I have, and if they've also noticed that the problem hasn't re-occurred since. If so, then it may be helpful in finding the cause/fix to the problem.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *Yes, I agree... I'm just curious if anyone else who's had this happen multiple times has also just given up modifying the channel lists like I have, and if they've also noticed that the problem hasn't re-occurred since. If so, then it may be helpful in finding the cause/fix to the problem. *


Well, I have left the channels you receive alone after the reboot (but still set up favorites) and had it happen again. Next time I will give it a try although I would prefer not to have a million channels in the guide.

Now, I haven't had it happen since the 'acquiring guide data' problem started though.


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## cvarner

My gut feeling is that rebooting and not modifying the lists won't make any difference, but it would be interesting to see, just the same. My belief is that the issue is triggered by something periodically (maybe channel updates) sent to the box from DirecTV. I don't know how often they send different types of updates, but it seems that the issue is not triggered every time the updates happen. The occurrences for me have been quite random: The first and second occurrences on my box were about 2 weeks apart, then I went 4 months with no problems, then 2 more issues within a month. Strange.


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## PJO1966

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *
> you're not adding anything that adds value to this thread. *


... and repeating yourself ad nauseum adds exactly what?


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## kevinm

After it happened to me the first time I have not modified the channel favorites, etc. and have not had the problem reproduce since 12/22/03.

BlankMan, the PM I sent you was after that post. AFAIC the hatchet is buried.


----------



## Cajonkev

Thank for those that responded to my original post. I did find the other thread after completing my first entry. Funny how both this issue and the other came up after that indexing session. 

A far as the "let it happen and then leave it alone" thought. I did just that with one of my two units and used the other one to see when the next "event" occurred as a baseline. Just in case it appeared to not occur

It turns out I didn't need to as the very next time it occurred the channels stayed the same (of course I had left them unmodified) but with the guide data reset all my season passes showed no upcoming episodes to record. I had to go back through and once again delete/add all the SP's back. 

I have always dealt with this as an inconvenience as it has always occurred when I could fix it before I lost anything. Until now, this last time we lost shows and there is definitely a "cost" for that beyond my time.

I hope they get this resolved sooner rather than later before someone decides that this deserves class action litigation and really gets it mucked up.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *Has anyone else who has gotten the "Channel Not Available" bug hit them done what I've done? Namely, reboot and then leave all channel lists alone? Knock on wood, but it's been a couple of months or longer probably since I've had the symptoms of that bug appear. It's still not an ideal fix, since I'd prefer to modify the Channels I Receive list (but I don't normally worry about the Favorites list), but in the meantime (because I'm still hopeful a software fix will be forthcoming) I can live with it. *


 I typically don't alter the Channels I receive list. I have in the past deleted channel 582 so that the DTiVo stays on the channel I have it set on because I never put my units in Standby therefore I always have the 30 minute buffer active and if I happen to turn on the TV and an interesting show is on I can go back and watch the beginning. But every time this happens and I reboot channel 582 is enabled again and I haven't deleted it and it happens again. When this first started happening to me I hadn't been altering the Channels I Receive list, I only started doing that last fall. So I think it's safe to say it happens whether or not the Channels I Receive list is altered or not.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *... and repeating yourself ad nauseum adds exactly what? *


 You felt you had to jump in to say that? 

If people ignore the facts to try and stress their point and it is not accurate, yes I will repeat the facts. Because if someone is skimming the posts they may read something then therefore be mis-informed, I don't like to let that happen.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by cvarner _
> *My gut feeling is that rebooting and not modifying the lists won't make any difference, but it would be interesting to see, just the same. My belief is that the issue is triggered by something periodically (maybe channel updates) sent to the box from DirecTV. I don't know how often they send different types of updates, but it seems that the issue is not triggered every time the updates happen. The occurrences for me have been quite random: The first and second occurrences on my box were about 2 weeks apart, then I went 4 months with no problems, then 2 more issues within a month. Strange. *


 TiVoBill posted this here:



> _Originally posted by TiVoBill _
> *I don't really know anything specific about this issue as we don't provide customer support for DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo. I'd suspect that DIRECTV is somehow deleting the channels from the APG stream data (which will remove them from the favorites list) and then re-adding the channels to the stream. The best bet for people having this problem would be to contact DIRECTV to report the issue. *


 He said this after DirecTV had asked TiVo representatives not to comment on the matter anymore so it comes across as conjecture, but how much you want to bet it's dead on?


----------



## cvarner

Makes sense.


----------



## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *I typically don't alter the Channels I receive list. I have in the past deleted channel 582 so that the DTiVo stays on the channel I have it set on because I never put my units in Standby therefore I always have the 30 minute buffer active and if I happen to turn on the TV and an interesting show is on I can go back and watch the beginning. But every time this happens and I reboot channel 582 is enabled again and I haven't deleted it and it happens again. When this first started happening to me I hadn't been altering the Channels I Receive list, I only started doing that last fall. So I think it's safe to say it happens whether or not the Channels I Receive list is altered or not. *


 But do you modify the Favorites list?


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *But do you modify the Favorites list? *


 Yes. I do use the Favorites Channel list pretty much exclusively. And that's how I know when I've been hit. It's either completely empty or only channels from the 119 sat are left. Once I noticed that and posted it TiVoOpsMgr commented that when they were able to reproduce it the information I provided in part helped them reproduce it, so maybe that adds in to the equation somehow.


----------



## BrettStah

So maybe the act of modifying the favorites list causes the DirecTivo to be susceptible to the bug(s) noted in this thread. Weird stuff, whatever it turns out to be (which we'll probably never find out).


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *So maybe the act of modifying the favorites list causes the DirecTivo to be susceptible to the bug(s) noted in this thread. Weird stuff, whatever it turns out to be (which we'll probably never find out). *


 But if you don't use the Favorite Channels list you could be hit and not know it. If channels were lost that you do not watch or record from you may never be aware that it happened. Moot point though because you wouldn't care because it would not affect your viewing, and then with the next reboot for what ever reason they would be back. And most people never know when the last reboot occurred. So it could be happening even more then reported even to people that say it never happened to them.


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## BrettStah

That's true for many people, but in my case I use various backdoor codes (30 second skip, sorting in the Now Playing list, etc.) so I know when one of my Tivos reboots (those features go away upon reboot). We've seen the "Channel Not Available" bug at least a few times on each Tivo, but since we've left all channel lists alone we haven't seen it (the Channel Not Available bug) at all. Could be a coincidence though. And I know that you and others like using the Favorites list, so that just leaving everything alone isn't a great workaround for you guys...


----------



## kevinm

It's a good analysis test though. Harder to find symptoms, but a variable that has not been explored. Then again, it could be moot if the solution is alread known internally


----------



## drew2k

> _Originally posted by deuce _
> *Noob question...possibly related.
> 
> Just had 3 DVRs installed, a 100 hr Samsung and 2 Hughes purchased at Circuit City.
> 
> On the Samsung, I deleted channels on my "Channels I Receive" list, for example, DC 14, a Spanish channel. As I don't speak Spanish, I don't watch it. So, when I change the channels using the up and down channel buttons, it skips DC 14. No problem yet.
> 
> Now, on both of the Hughes DVRs, I've deleted DC 14 on the CIR list, but when I surf channels, it shows DC 14. If I go back to setup, there's no check by DC 14.
> 
> I've read thru this long thread, and this doesn't appear to be addressed. Is this problem the same as the original complaint, or is this something different?
> 
> Cannot figure out why the Samsung is fine, but both Hughes aren't working as I'd hoped.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help...
> 
> Deuce *


Scrolling through the channels using CH+ and CH- follows the same list used in the guide. By default, the HDVR2 uses the "All Channels" list in the guide, so you if haven't changed the guide to show "Channels I Receive" or "Favorites", when you press CH+ or CH-, you would get the behavior you have described.

When the guide is on screen, press INFO and change the list to CIR. Exit the guide, and then try CH+ and CH- again, and hopefully DC 14 will be skipped since you removed it from the CIR list.

Hope this works for you.


----------



## deuce

Thanks Drew...exactly the problem...


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## brucedl

This just happened to me: I lost all my favorites and when I turned on TiVo all I had was NASA. I rebooted, which did not change the situation. I changed my Guide to "Channels you Receive," but some items that I have set on Season Pass still have not re-appeared in my To-do list. Major PITA.


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## lgkahn

I repeatedly loose the channels you receive list.....

I find that by setting this it speeds up the unit in many ways..

1. the guide is smaller so searching for programs is much quicker since it seems to search through much less data....

I finally now have maintained two lists on paper.. which channels I want to receive and which I want to delete so I can recreate the damn list quickly without going back and forth to the live tv and checking if I receive a certain channel or not...

this bug is a major pain in the ass.


any body have an update on if and when a fix will be available and who at direct tv I should talk to to report the issue....

thanks...

also when it does loose the channel you receive list... it either records nothing since it thinks you don't get any damn channels...

or I have also seen it get all the channels turned on again and assumed that directv/tivo is/was doing this on purpose .... or automatically periodically when new channels are added/removed...

any comments.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by brucedl _
> *This just happened to me: I lost all my favorites and when I turned on TiVo all I had was NASA. I rebooted, which did not change the situation. I changed my Guide to "Channels you Receive," but some items that I have set on Season Pass still have not re-appeared in my To-do list. Major PITA. *


 Yep, that's exactly it, welcome to the club.


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## stevel

For those of you who just joined this conversation - if you encounter this problem, PLEASE call DirecTV and let them know about it. Ask that they record the report in your account and ask to speak to a TiVo specialist about it. Do not fall for the generic scripted response of 1) unplug and restart, 2) remove and insert access card, 3) Clear and delete eveything, 4) contact the manufacturer.


----------



## BlankMan

_Hokyfan_ said here that he spoke with an "Expanded Services" technician regarding the problem. So try and ask for an Expanded Services" technician and see what happens.

Time to email the Exec's again, it's been a week and I haven't heard anything.


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## Rik

How about a phone call to some of the execs ... during the work day?


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## JakFrost

Just wanted to chime in to this thread. This problem has happened to me for the second time. The first time this happened was about 2-3 months ago.

I have saved the entire /var/log directory to have a copy of the logs from yesterday when the problem was not there and today when the problem occurred. I am also going to do a backup image of my DirecTiVo Sony SAT-T60 with a 120GB and TivoWeb using the MFS tools to keep it as an after the fact BlackBox recording just in case there is that very slight chance in hell that somebody at TiVo cares enough to contact me to retrieve the image and see if they can diagnose the problem from the saved data. _(I doubt that very much at this point since yesterday's announcement of new TiVo recorder products seems like the company is focusing on selling new products, and I guess this means that support for old products will probably decrease.)_

Almost forgot to mention this, I will call DirecTV tomorrow to report this problem so that I can at least become a statistic, if even that much. _(I really doubt that anything will ever be done about this problem judging from the experiences of the people before me that tried to do something about it.)_

I will also write down my Favorite Channels list so that it will be easier to input it into the system when this happens again.


----------



## Smiles

Argh! This just happened again to me on my bedroom series 1. I lost today's recordings on it. 

It was fine last night - what changed was that I had a power outage of about 3 minutes, and my powered multiswitches are not on a UPS. I bet that after losing signal for a while, one of them decided to flake out. There does seem to be some coincidence with losing signal when it comes to my units.

My DTiVos don't do me a lot of good if they don't record what I want.


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## DrywallPro

Thank you for all the information about DirectTVs version of Tivo. I have had
my Tivo less than a month now. Could the problem be from a satilite signal
glitch. What ever it is, Direct TVs responce reminds me of Earthlink.


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## stevel

It is probably a software bug combined with the manner in which DirecTV makes changes in the channel lineup. I don't think it's a signal glitch.


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## sulli2p

Thanks for a hugely informative thread. My guess is that the next software upgrade will fix this one. 

Just happened to me for the first time yesterday, 01/10/2004, after two years. DSR6000R01 (Series 1). Favorites deleted and "Channels You Receive" set back to default (all). I sent off a note to Stephen Mack, Director of Service Operations at TiVo, but clearly the issue and fix are known, it's just a matter of DTV becoming "willing" to get this into their next rev.

RM has a lot riding on DTV, I suspect that "stupid" issues like this one will get fixed a whole lot quicker in the future.


----------



## sulli2p

Steve Mack just wrote back to me about this issue. He says that TiVo engineers have a possible solution which DTV engineers and management are evaluating. He again emphasized that the final implementation decision is up to DTV.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by sulli2p _
> *Steve Mack just wrote back to me about this issue. He says that TiVo engineers have a possible solution which DTV engineers and management are evaluating. He again emphasized that the final implementation decision is up to DTV. *


 Somewhat good news, at least DTV may be finally looking at it. But TiVo had it identifed quite a while ago, back on October 14th according to Stephen Mack.

But on the note of it being in the next release, unless something will change it is not to the best of my knowledge. I was told a couple of weeks ago (12/29) by someone that is trying their best inside DTV to track this and let us know if there is any progress that it was not in the next release (when ever that will be) at that time. I did not relay that information here until I confirmed it was ok to do so.


----------



## Smiles

Gah. It happened to me earlier today on my DSR6000 - the one that has only experienced it once before. That's both Series 1 units in 2 days.

I'm *so* tired of this. Even once is one time too many, let alone how long this has dragged out. I'm not a happy DTV customer.


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## dtwdmaty

While I'm not happy that this is happening to everyone else, I am a bit relieved to know that it's not just me! I'm glad I found this board!

I've been calling DirecTv about this issue for months and each time they act like they have no idea what I'm talking about. At one point they told me that a new software upgrade would help - nope! Now the problem has spread to both my boxes (both 2 year old Hughes GXCEB0T) and I'm getting really frustrated. I'm spending as much time checking to see if my shows are still recording as I did when I had a VCR - what's the point!!

The best solution DirecTv had to offer me is to buy new Tivos! Hah! I'm now starting to hope that my cable company comes out with some sort of DVR package.

I'm going to start writing down my channel lists, although I've gotten really good at redoing them I hate to miss any - thanks for the tip and for letting me vent!


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## BlankMan

Tivo2 just got hit again overnight. It was fine last night, I was watching it, now all that is left in my Favorite Channels list in 376 NASA and 511 HBOL.

And I've also noticed something that may be a result of this phenomena, both tuners were tuned to the same channel and it is not due to a reboot, it's been up 13+ days. I don't think you can tune both tuners to the same channel no matter how hard you try. In my experience if you tune to the channel that the other tuner is already on it just switches to that tuner.

A quick scan of the Channels I Receive list looks like they are all there, well at least there's no noticeable block missing.

Time to email the Exec's again. Needless to say I have not heard back. Surprise surprise. Have to start emailing more frequently. I now strongly suggest everyone start emailing them too, the list of email addresses is here. Power 'n mass.


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## wired711

*BAM* - got hit again.
This time..TiVo1 (both units unmodified 35 hour Series 1 Hughes GXCEBOTD). OS: 3.1.0b-02-1-031. TiVo 2 unaffected. Last time (a month or so ago which I reported in this thread) it was TiVo 2 and not TiVo 1.

Was watching ER about 30 minutes behind live. At 11:30 when we finished and went to Live TV it was on a channel (forgot which one) that said "Channel Not Available".

The only (not available) channels listed in my guide were:
209,214,266,302,581,587,604,613,721-725,740-745,749,750,752,781,782,784-788,796,798,801. These are channels such as NBA, NHL, that we don't subscribe to.

Had to do the reboot thing and the channels came back. The Channels You Receive were reset naturally to everything. Don't use favorites.

Time to call.


----------



## wired711

Is there currently anybody (from TiVo or D*) who is acting like they care whom I should send the Service Number from the unit that got hit?


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## TV addict

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *
> And I've also noticed something that may be a result of this phenomena, both tuners were tuned to the same channel and it is not due to a reboot, it's been up 13+ days. I don't think you can tune both tuners to the same channel no matter how hard you try. In my experience if you tune to the channel that the other tuner is already on it just switches to that tuner.
> *


The only way I have been able to force both tuners to the same channel is to create 2 recording on the same channel at the same time. One way I do this by padding the end of one program, and pad the start of the next program on the same channel. Another way is to set one recording or a program, and set a manual by time recording of the same channel at the same time.


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## BigScreen

One of my two DSR-6000's got hit this morning while I was watching something that was recorded.

I knew that it was supposed to be recording at 9am and when the red light didn't appear, I went back to live TV to see what was up.

Both tuners were on Channel 10, and the screen showed the "Channel Not Available" message even though I had just been watching that channel 15 minutes earlier.

All Favorite and Channels I Receive were reset, recordings were not happening as they should, which is a failure of the service that I am paying for.

BTW, my second DSR6000 right above it was not affected at all. Both are connected to a dual-LNB dish via a multi-switch.

Manually configuring the channels I receive is really a tedious task. It is an embarrassment for the folks at TiVo that such a sophisticated device that is supposed to make life easier can't perform an auto-scan function that was present in my 2nd generation Sony DirecTV receiver so many years ago. How hard can that be to program into the device? Sheesh!!

Follow-up
------------
I just got off the phone with a supervisor at DirecTV's Expanded Services Group (TiVo Specialists?). He and the person answering the phone in his department were not aware of this issue, and perhaps I was describing it differently, but he said that he would do some looking into it and get back to me on Mon or Tue.

I asked him if there was a bug report # that we could mention when reporting the bug, and he said to wait until he called back with more information. Maybe we can start tracking this under one bug report # instead of isolated instances...

The guy seemed genuinely concerned about the issue. He took down the URL for this forum, and he said that he had 3 boxes at home as well, so he wanted to find out what was going on.

Hopefully, someone somewhere can figure out what's happening and what needs to happen to get it fixed. If it's been fixed and someone isn't approving the fix to be pushed live, then they need to get off their collective butts and make it happen.

If I were in support, especially a manager, I would be aware of and checking these forums to get a jump on the issues that people are reporting. Even if participating is out of the question (for fear of getting jumped on by the masses), there is valuable knowledge to be gained here.

Hopefully this guy will check this forum out and spread the word around his fellow workers.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BigScreen _
> *I just got off the phone with a supervisor at DirecTV's Expanded Services Group (TiVo Specialists?). He and the person answering the phone in his department were not aware of this issue.....*


 Every time I hear this same story it just makes my blood boil. After all of the people here (including me) who have called countless times, I can't believe they are still claiming they never heard of it. At first, I gave them the benefit of a doubt, but now I'm convinced they are well aware of this problem, but are intentionally missleading callers by telling them they never heard of it.


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## alphawave7

Guess DTV added another channel...got hit again tonight, and I'm pissed. Was just surfing along, no prob..decided to watch the news..was recorded at 11-11:35 pm, I came in around 11:20 ish and began the recording. After watching and fastforwarding thru commercials(whoops,did I say that!?!), Ideleted it and went to guide...NADA. You know the story..No favs, All I receive checked. This is SO frustrating..I'm going on almost 18 months with this 'bug', and while I'll never return my Dishplayer back to service, this one has me mighty P.O.'d. FIX IT, DTV!!!!!!


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## BigScreen

TiVo #2 just got hit this afternoon/evening.

Same symptoms as the first. 

I hope this supervisor guy comes through with useful information. If nothing else, I'd like to be able to pass along an error ticket # so that everyone calling in with it can refer to the same ticket # so that they can begin tracking it (which one would hope is already happening).

I wonder if it is somehow connected to daily calls. TiVo #2 made its daily call this afternoon (1:43pm) and I noticed the "dead" TiVo around 8:00pm tonight. TiVo #1 shows that its last daily call was Thursday, and it flatlined at 9am Saturday morning, so who knows if that means anything...


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## stevel

I don't think so - the daily call doesn't provide guide data nor the channel list.


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## publicpersona

I'm pretty sure I'm talking similar symptoms here, but let me be explicit just to make sure, especially since DTV said these were two totally separate issues:

1) Message about acquiring program data appears, and Sys Info says program guide only up-to-date through the next day. However, program data appears to be there and extend well over a week in advance. This started happening first of the year.

2) Yesterday, on my Phillips DSR6000, the list of channels I receive was reduced to just about half dozen or so .. all in the 600-800 range (where I don't receive anything anyway, I don't think). No programs were recording as scheduled. Channels were not even available for live view. If I looked at the To Do list, all instances in the list said "None scheduled".

Later in the day yesterday, the exact same symptoms occurred with my Sony T-60.

Rebooting the Phillips caused the channels to come back. However, the To Do list still showed "None Scheduled" for all selections.

I called DirecTV. It took 20 minutes of hold, being asked stupid questions (I mean .. really stupid questions), and being talked to in Spanish, but I finally got connected to the Extended Services group. There I talked with a nice lady who was on the phone with me for about an hour .. she'd even got someone from TiVO on the line (with her, not with me). She was working this from the angle that it was an authorization problem, though she couldn't see why that is the case. She sent authorization anew to the Phillips and that appeared to correct it (plus, I had rebooted).

We then started working on the Sony. Rebooting it fixed channels, but the new authorization did not fix anything else. We were just about to proceed down the long road of "unplug your unit and leave it that way until I'm not on duty anymore" when we got disconnected.

I subsequently called back .. they had put nothing in my record to allow me to reconnect to the same person, so I was starting over. This time, the guy was a loser. Among other things he tried to tell me ..

1) He said this was a Sony problem and I needed to call them. (Never mind it had also happened on the Philips).

2) He said that "it ought to work" repeatedly.

3) He said that there are two sets of program data .. one that you see in the guide and one that was used for scheduling recording. Sounded incredible.

4) He said the program data that is used for scheduling recordings comes during the phone call.

5) He said that forcing a daily call (not a test call) would NOT cause the program data to download - "it has to be a regular call", so he said wait until the next regular call on Tuesday and I'd be all set.

While both acknowledged the "Acquiring program data" problem, neither had every heard .. or admitted to ever hearing .. about the loss of channels and program guide data.


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## BrettStah

Guide data for DirecTivos does NOT come from phone calls.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by publicpersona _
> *.... neither had every heard .. or admitted to ever hearing .. about the loss of channels and program guide data. *


Of course not. Call them back tomorrow, and they will still say they never heard of it. I'll bet you could talk to the same person and still be told they never heard of it.


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## jbalfour

> 1) Message about acquiring program data appears, and Sys Info says program guide only up-to-date through the next day. However, program data appears to be there and extend well over a week in advance. This started happening first of the year.


This has become a permanent fixture on both of my Tivos as well.


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## BlankMan

Well I just dispatched another email off to the Exec's at DirecTV. Earlier I sent a nicely worded message to the Exec's at News Corp explaining this problem to them in case it was something that was overlooked in the acquisition do diligence. I emailed the following Exec's at News Corp:

Chairman and Chief Executive: K. Rupert Murdoch 
President and Chief Operating Officer, News Corporation: Peter Chernin 
Deputy Chief Operating Officer: Lachlan Murdoch 
Chief Financial Officer: David DeVoe 
Group General Counsel: Arthur Siskind 
Executive Vice President, Content: Anthea Disney 
Executive Vice President, Investor Relations & Corporate Communications: Gary Ginsberg 
Executive Vice President, Finance and Latin American Operations: Paul Haggerty 
Executive Vice President: Leon Hertz 
Executive Vice President, Deputy General Counsel: Lon Jacobs 
Executive Vice President, Human Resources: Ian Moore 
Executive Vice President, Deputy Chief Financial Officer: John Nallen 
Executive Vice President: Martin Pompadur 
Executive Vice President, Television Platforms: Romulo Pontual

However Rupert Murdoch's bounced which is of no surprise, a person of his statue would be hard to figure out his address, and Peter Chernin's was also returned, but the best I can tell the rest went through successfully.

As of yet I am not giving up on getting this problem resolved.

_<added>_

I think I pegged Rupert Murdock's email address, it hasn't bounced yet.


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## vman

I think I am experiencing this problem and am having a bit of a time understanding the severity of the issue. Last night I lost almost all channels, and a reboot brought them back, but with a reset channels you receive list and favorites list. Of even greater concern to me, is that none of my season passes/wishlists find any future episodes to record. They are listed in the recording history and are identified as won't record because there's n guide data, but I do seem to be able to record them if I select them manually. 

Is this similar to what others are experiencing here? Is the solution to delete and recreate each season pass/wishlist?


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by vman _
> *I Last night I lost almost all channels, and a reboot brought them back, but with a reset channels you receive list and favorites list. Of even greater concern to me, is that none of my season passes/wishlists find any future episodes to record. They are listed in the recording history and are identified as won't record because there's n guide data, but I do seem to be able to record them if I select them manually.
> 
> Is this similar to what others are experiencing here? Is the solution to delete and recreate each season pass/wishlist? *


They should still work ok once the unit re-indexes after the channels get added back. It 'should' be fine after a few hours.


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## parzec

Add me to the list of frustrated users -- all of my favorites were deleted last night as well. Everythiing is checked on the channels I receive list and my favorites now are completly unchecked. I still can't believe that DTV released 3.1b with all of these bugs. Why were they in such a hurry?

Until DTV fixes the bug, then at the very least, they should give me all of the extra channels they are adding to my lineup for free. Anybody else agree?


----------



## gschrock

I notice way back in July TivoOpsMgr was asking for tivo service numbers for people that run into this problem. Any idea whether he still wants them? I just ran into the problem where my channels I receive list disappeared on 1 tivo this morning, apparently about 8:20 am.


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## Rik

TivoOpsMgr seemed willing to help but has since disappeared from this thread.


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## BlankMan

DirecTV told TiVo not to comment on this issue anymore, that is why TiVoOpsMgr disappeared.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *DirecTV told TiVo not to comment on this issue anymore, that is why TiVoOpsMgr disappeared. *


What issue? DirecTV never heard of it. 

On a side note, I haven't had this happen for almost a month now. Which of course probably means I'm due.


----------



## Hokyfan

I got hit again yesterday - but only on my Philips - not the Hughes.

Just to be a pain - I called DTV and spoke to a CS supervisor. He said he never heard of it, but checked my records and found the notes the TiVo support person left - acknowledging the problem.

The supervisor said he will bring it up in his meeting with his supervisors on Wednesday. In addition, he gave me his direct line so I could call him back and get a status report.

I will post after I speak with him on Friday.


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## parzec

Just called DirecTV and spoke with a CSR in Special Services - advised of my favorites being wiped out. She told me the solution was to reprogram the favorites again. (Really???) I explained that I had already started to do that but the main reason for my call was to document the problem so someone in DirecTV could prevent it from happening in the first place. She said my complaint would be forwarded to engineering. I said "thanks" and asked for a small credit for the time to call DTV about the problem and to reprogram the favorites. She agreed but didn't say how much. I don't really care about the amount of the credit. I just wanted to convey the fact that this problem is annoying and that my time to fix their problem isn't free.

Hope this helps --


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## BlankMan

Sent off another little reminder note to the Exec's again today, asking what's being done.

_<added>_

I should have noted, only the DirecTV Exec's this time.


----------



## Rik

came home today and found it had happened again to my Philips. Reset it and called in the issue to extended services. Spoke with a nice rep named Christina who had indicated that she had heard of the problem and that they are working with Tivo and the manufacturers for a solution. I mentioned that it has been an issue for about a year now and all she could offer was to escalate it.


----------



## stevel

It happened to me again today as well - first time in a couple of months. The Channels You Receive list was empty, the favorites had been zapped, and the local and movie package channels didn't even show on the list. A restart brought those back, as usual.

I called DirecTV, and once again, got the "I've never heard of this before" garbage. I spoke to a supervisor named Danae who was also unfamiliar with it but she promised to escalate it and call me back within a couple of weeks with status.

I find it so incredible that all of us are calling so frequently, yet most of us get told that the issue is unknown to DirecTV!

I made it clear to Danae that the entire reason I switched to DirecTV from Dish was because of TiVo, and said that if I couldn't rely on my TiVo to record the shows I asked, I might have to look for other solutions. (Yeah, right, but she doesn't have to know that...)


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## dtwdmaty

Mine croaked on me again - I keep missing my Sunday night programs for some reason. I just looked at my local cable providers web site (Cox in SoCal) and they have a new "tivo" cable box that has 2 tuners coming soon (within the next few months they said)! If DirecTV can't get their act together and fix this problem, I'm switching to cable - and I'm going to call and tell them that right now!


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## jbalfour

> I find it so incredible that all of us are calling so frequently, yet most of us get told that the issue is unknown to DirecTV!


It is just like when I used to have call Time Warner when the cable was out. They try to make you think you are the only one with a problem so they don't have to do anything right away.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *I made it clear to Danae that the entire reason I switched to DirecTV from Dish was because of TiVo, and said that if I couldn't rely on my TiVo to record the shows I asked, I might have to look for other solutions. (Yeah, right, but she doesn't have to know that...) *


 Careful Steve, they have the link to this thread and if they're smart, (which is up for debate) they could be monitoring this thread, in which case they would know you're bluffing.


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## stevel

If they're following this thread, then they know about the problem, right?


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## BlankMan

Lurking. Oh I have to believe they know about the problem, but their corporate mindset seems to be to not admit any problems for fear the competition will use that against them in advertisements


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## stevel

I doubt that - after all, the current boxes they sell don't have this problem. I think it's just they don't want to be bothered....


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## cvarner

Their "solution" is for us to buy Series II boxes.


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## PJO1966

... or even better... HD TiVo.


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## cvarner

Well, I'll probably do that anyway.
But I'll keep the T60.


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## kevinm

Well.... I've decided to unsubscribe from this thread. As a point of reference, I only had the problem once and after the reboot it did not occur again. All I can tell you is that from my perspective, it was a minor and short lived annoyance. But that is only 1 opinion that I would not extrapolate from.

Best of luck to the folks that have made a mission out of raising awareness to this problem and hope that you gather enough critical mass to get it corrected. My only advice is, although the squeaky wheel gets the grease, when the wheel is a small one out of a million shopping carts, it may go unaddressed for some time. Keep calling the store manager, but I think they will continue to focus on stocking the shelves and trying to get more customers.

PS Early congratulations to Stevel on soon becoming a 10K poster.


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## kevinm

Well.... ok... 1 more. Here is some data to think about. This thread currently contains:

~470 posts
120 unique users have added their name
~40% of posts in this thread are from 4 users.

DirecTV has over 13 million subscribers.
DirecTV probably takes hundreds of thousands of calls / week
Tivo has over 1.5 million total subscribers.
This forum has about 53,000 members (can't tell active vs non)

Assuming this forum contains about 3.5% of the Tivo user base and assuming that at least 50% of the members here have posted "me too" messages in this thread because it was causing enough pain, that extrapolates out to about 6000 DirecTivo users that may have noticed this 1 or more times. Not sure how many of them are like me and only saw this once (out of 3 tivos.)

Ok, you all know what "assume" means and that there are lies, more lies and statistics, but... for the people that are not taking the BS line over the phone and know the real story (i.e. 120 people here) that translates to $80*120=$9600 / month.

Given big business issues and DirecTV call volume, I am in no way surprised this gets lost in their gigantic, complicated and poorly tracking CSR ticket system. As far as raising it to the attention of Execs, I'm sure they have seen it and asked Ops what it would cost to fix/roll it out. My guess is the fix is being delayed for reasons other then trying to force you all to go to series 2 boxes... but that is just my opinion...

You know... I said I was going to leave and I didn't.... Bad dobby... Bad dobby


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## PJO1966

You mean it's not a conspiracy? I'm shocked! I thought DirecTV was launching a personal attack against me.


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## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by cvarner _
> *Their "solution" is for us to buy Series II boxes. *


 At the $99 price, they lose money on them, so it's not like it's a scam to make money on us.


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## corddogs

We have a Sony SAT-T60. This started about three weeks ago. Called Cust Svc and was told to unplug/replug. This fixed it for the time being. But it's been happening about twice a week since then. I also have the "Acquiring Satellite data...." message as have others. 

I feel like I can no longer rely on Season Pass or any scheduled recording. The problem has caused favorite Season Pass shows to not record. The whole idea of TiVo was to bring reliability and simplicity to the recording process.

Good customer service uses tools to identify duplicate problems. By logging the number of instances of duplicate problems, it can help the engineers prioritize what to work on first.

I hope this is not a trend towards mediocre or low quality products and services. That would not bode well for the future of the business.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by cvarner _
> *Their "solution" is for us to buy Series II boxes. *


 Poor solution for me. My T60's are at 230 Hours each, which I could do to the HDVR2's but I'm not sure if I can run TiVoWeb on them and without being able to remotely access the boxes that is a show stopper for me and something that I would not want to give up. And moving through the menu's in HDVR2's is noticeably slower then T60's, and T60's are not speedsters.

As for the numbers posted by kevinm, they probably are not representative of the whole scope of the problem. Probably less then 10% of the people that own DTiVo's even know about this Forum, and this problem can occur and you would never know it. I have pointed the how of that out in previous posts. So not everyone that has it happen is reporting it, and not everyone that has it occur knows it.

Course if it occurs and you don't know it I guess it's a moot point because it isn't causing a problem otherwise you would know it. But then again, you may be having a problem and do not know the cause and even if you contact DirecTV and they tell you to reboot and it seems to disappear and not occur for a long time or ever again, you would probably write it off as an anomaly.

So the entire scope of the problem is definitely not know to us, and probably not know to DirecTV either because as we all know with the CSR's _never hearing of that problem before_ they're surely not tabulating the customers it is occurring to and the frequency of the occurrences.

Stick you're head in the sand and everything seem fine...


----------



## BrettStah

Just a follow-up... I still have not had it re-occur on either of my first-generation DirecTivos since I started leaving the Favorites and Channels I Receive lists alone after the reboot to clear up the problem.

So if this is happening multiple times per week for some of you, I'd recommend considering giving up any and all edits to the Channels I Receive and Favorites lists after the next time it occurs and you reboot. You lose some functionality, but if it means that you don't have the effects of this bug as often it would mean that you won't miss as many recordings.


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## Zarquon

FYI, I have an old original Philips DirectTivo, and have never had this problem in the however many years, (got one of the first out, two drives internal), until yesterday. I just lost all my favorites, and it says that I get all channels (which i don't. *sigh* I guess I need to enter in all the channel info again, then reboot to prevent it? or something...Count another unique user with the problem.


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## Mark Lopez

Well, had it happen again. Guess I was right when I posted that I am due a few days ago. DirecTV has won. I've had it with this stupid problem and I'm just going to replace them with series 2 units.


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## cramer

> _Originally posted by cvarner _
> *Their "solution" is for us to buy Series II boxes. *


I have a HDVR2. I rarely watch what it's recorded -- until the DSR6000 is screwed up or in one of it's 30 minute SP update modes (why the h*** did they make that synchronous?) I don't like it's remote -- the tv power button is why to close to replay, it's way too big, and has a bunch of unnecessary buttons (and one that will never find a use on that hardware.)

When they provide a means of transferring my 120hrs+ of content and ALL of the personalizations (thumbness, wishlists, season passes), then we'll talk. Currently, that's one of the main reasons the HDVR2 is a "backup"... it'd take me months to train it and a least a week to get all the SPs and WLs in there.


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## tivo-2

My Favorite Channel list keeps disappearing about once a week.


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## jDot

Add me to the list.
I sat down to watch a recorded Monk last night and my Tivo (GXCEBOTD 106hrs) informed me that USA was no longer in my Channels I Receive list. A quick check showed only a handful ( 200 - 21?) of channels in CIR. A reset (through the menu - NOT unplug/plug ) and they all came back. 15 mins of unchecking the channels I don't want and the channels I really don't receive, ( OT why are they checked to begin with - the box 'knows' I don't get Starz why is it checked?), and all was normal. Checked 'to do' and history and was relieved to find that I didn't miss anything (last time it failed to record two shows ('no longer in guide')).
Last night was the first time I noticed the TV Guide channel in my line-up and noticed that the 'names' of several channels had changed (it could be I remembered them wrong); this lends some credence to the theory that CIR gets messed up after line-up changes. The ~Dec. 25 (two weeks before 31 bit Unix dates) appearance of 'Acquiring guide data' is also at the top of my list of probable causes. Perhaps an interaction between line-up changes and 'funky' dates? (he grabs another straw). In any case they (Tivo with DirecTV's blessing and $upport) need to fix it.
I love my DTivo, but it's beginning to p*** me off! After years of reliable operation I no longer have confidence that it will do what it's suppose to do. I've given a new chore to my kids - Check the Tivo at least twice a day to make sure it hasn't lost CIR and guide data. I'll have to live with this low tech solution until either the issue is fixed or I switch to an HDVR2/3.


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## stevel

jdot, be sure to call DirecTV and complain - and ask that the incident be recorded in your account.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *So if this is happening multiple times per week for some of you, I'd recommend considering giving up any and all edits to the Channels I Receive and Favorites lists after the next time it occurs and you reboot. You lose some functionality, but if it means that you don't have the effects of this bug as often it would mean that you won't miss as many recordings. *


 But if you give up the Favorite's List and don't modify Channels I Receive doesn't that then mean that when you're channel surfing you have to go through each and every channel that you receive? That to me is a major loss of functionality. So it becomes a choice of missing some recordings or surfing through a few hundred channels? Neither is a good choice to me.

_*Mark*_ - Sorry to hear you're throwing in the towel, probably what DirecTV wants. I have an HDRV2 unmodified and the slowness of walking through the menus is just as annoying to me as this, only it happens all the time. You'll see what I mean when you get one.


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## Smiles

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *Just a follow-up... I still have not had it re-occur on either of my first-generation DirecTivos since I started leaving the Favorites and Channels I Receive lists alone after the reboot to clear up the problem.
> 
> So if this is happening multiple times per week for some of you, I'd recommend considering giving up any and all edits to the Channels I Receive and Favorites lists after the next time it occurs and you reboot. You lose some functionality, but if it means that you don't have the effects of this bug as often it would mean that you won't miss as many recordings. *


That would be a real issue for most of us who don't get the distant network stations (CBSE, CBSW, etc.). I know that if I leave my CYR list unedited, my ARWLs will start picking up shows from those channels.


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## twagner

Add me to the list... it happened twice within a week on my unmodified Sony that had been running without a glitch since May '01. Killed favorites and channels I receive on Sun 1/25 and on Sun 2/1. Both times shows from my season passes did not record. Restarting brought the channels back, but not the favorites list. Also had to manually go through the ToDo-list to restore the season pass recordings. This is turning into more than just a small annoyance.


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## BrettStah

twagner, most have found that the To Do List gets rebuilt within an hour after the reboot, so you should wait before manually adding things back to it next time...


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## hookbill

I got hit again this morning on my GXCEBOTD unit again. Since I rarely even turn the TV on down stairs I'm not sure when I was hit but let's say I noticed it this morning. This is the first time I have been affected in 3 months. I've been hit twice before.

I made an attempt to call DTV about this even though I am a Pegasus customer. The rep inquired as to what I was calling for, I told her she tansfered me and I got a message saying this department is not open at this time. I do want to log it on to this thread if the strange chance happens that someone from DTV actually takes a look at this thread. I think it is strange that it has never hit my HDVR2 unit which has all my importants SP'S and only this unit. I noticed the only channels it left me with this time were in the 700 range, NHL hockey and a couple of other channels I don't receive.


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## BrettStah

No second generation DirecTivos have ever been reported as being affected by this... it appears to be a first generation DirecTivo problem only.


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## Jay Levitt

I just read this whole thread.. I started because I'm finally looking at switching from cable to DTV, and I finished it because I simply couldn't believe that a *subgroup* of a call center could have such poor internal communication. 

Some tips from someone who has worked in call centers as both rep and manager:

- It sounds like there may be multiple "special rep" groups - there's expanded services, Tivo, Special Something, etc. It would be enlightening to understand their relationship. Are these groups actual teams, or are they queues? That is, are reps permanently assigned to specific groups? They may not be. Sometimes these "groups" might just be different call queues, and reps may be up-trained, cross-trained etc. on different products. That might explain why nobody knew who Aldo was. 

- At many call centers, reps will tell you who their direct supervisor is. 

Start gathering the above info, and you may start to understand the structure of the DirecTV call center. Start to understand that, and you may be able to figure out why every single person who calls gets told that they've never heard of the problem before - and how to prevent that from happening.

- Someone should make a list of what reps have acknowledge awareness of the issue, their ID, their group, etc. so that other reps can be told to go to that rep for info.

- If they refuse to give you a specific issue number, ask "How can I check on the status of this?" If they tell you to just call back in, ask how you can be guaranteed to get someone who knows the issue?

- It can't hurt to call back the next day and ask a different rep if they see the note on your account. If they don't, raise holy hell till you get to a supervisor that knows who the rep is that failed to log the problem and can do something.

- If you're getting off the phone before you have that comfortable feeling that Somebody is Doing the Right Thing, don't get off the phone. Ask for a supervisor. Do not accept a call back. Make the rep hang up on you if you have to, and make sure you are clear that that's what you're doing: "I'm not getting off the phone until I speak with somebody. You're going to have to hang up on a customer, and then I'll be a former customer." 

- Do not, under any circumstances, get abusive, insulting, patronizing or vulgar. It's not the reps' fault that their management team doesn't know how to track issues.

Good luck, guys. It sounds like this *particular* problem won't be affecting me, since as a new subscriber I'd end up with a series 2 box anyway, but it also sounds like if I ever have to rely on DirecTV support for anything, I'm screwed.


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## alphawave7

"......but it also sounds like if I ever have to rely on DirecTV support for anything, I'm screwed."

I wouldn't quite go THAT far, CSR's have been otherwise quite helpful, for me at least. That said, there are certain hotbutton issues(sound dropouts,favs zapped,etc) that seem to get swept underrug..likely because it'd cost DTV more money to fix it than they'd lose customers over.


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## lgkahn

"......but it also sounds like if I ever have to rely on DirecTV support for anything, I'm screwed."


I would go that far...

the only think I have ever had any luck with tech support has been turning on a new box ie the normal stuff. whenever I called in with a problem they know dick about anything.. I know more than them about how these boxes work. anytime somthing goes wrong just reboot the box that is the first thing they are going to tell you to do anyway, and if that doesn't work then they are going to tell you to either call the manuf. or completely reset loosing all you season passes etc. Basically they just cop out and don't really do any support whatsoever really really disappointing!!!!!!


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## dwynne

Add me to the list as well.

I have 3 DTivos, 2 1st gen and 1 newer one all connected to the same dish via a switch. If it matters all 3 have larger than factory drives in them and all they have the "guide data" bug on them. I also have a stand-alone Tivo.
The series 2 and the failing Tivo are hooked up dual tuner, due to some cabling issues the working series 1 is single tuner.

Only one of them has had the losing channels bug, and it has happened 3 times now - several weeks apart each time. In each case for me I lost all channels (and favorites). The first couple of times I tried testing sat signal (fine), repeated sat setup (no help), etc - until I figured out a reboot would solve the problem. 

I sat down to watch some Tivo the other night and noticed the red record light was not on and it should have been recording something. I checked and had lost all the channels to I did the reboot and they came back. I had to re-set the channels I receive and favorites again as well. The DTivo was not smart enough to figure out that it was in the middle of a show it SHOULD be recording so I had to manually save the rest of the show.

This DTivo is on a good sized UPS and had not been rebooted in a long time. It calls in daily (or every other day) as DTV schedules it. 

Anyway, rather than take a chance missing more shows I think I will start rebooting this DTivo every week or so. I will post if this seems to help or not.

BTW, the reason ALL the channels show up every time after this bug is because when DTV adds a channel they want it to show up - so they auto-add it for you. Well if you have this bug and get no channels, then after booting up they are all new to you so it checks them all.

Like everyone else, I have Tivos to make sure the shows I want are recorded and USED to be able to count on it do that. As a long-timer Tivo user this has been very sad for me - reminds me of my old Dish Players. The last straw for those when one crashed and took all of "Band of Brothers" with it. The next week I had switched to DTivos to go with my long-time stand-alone Tivo.

Dennis


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## BlankMan

Well, sent another message off to the Exec's again today. Lately, every time I send one I also send one to [email protected], they have been responding usually as follows:



> Thank you for writing DIRECTV. I am sorry that you have not received any
> follow up information in regards to the problem that you are
> experiencing. I have forwarded your message to the appropriate
> department for further review. We appreciate your patience while we
> research this further.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Esme
> DIRECTV Customer Service


But I never hear anything else.

Due to limitations with DirecTV's email system not accepting mass mailings, i.e. it won't accept a message with too many people in the To line, I send each one individually. But then any one person does not know who all it is being sent to, this time in the body of the message I mentioned that I send this to the included list of people. So now they all know who all is receiving it.


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## Jay Levitt

Blank - there's a well-studied principle in e-mail that the more people on a CC list, the less likely any one person is to respond - they all assume that someone else will take care of it. You may do better to select a few of those execs and write a personal note to them, instead of doing a (simulated) mass mailing telling them each who else is getting the note.


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## BlankMan

Jay, there is no cc list, like I said due to constraints in their email system you cannot send to a large group. So each one gets a message addressed to them and only them, this is the first time I let on to them the list of people receiving these. But I have to believe they do mention it to one another. I think this might be my 7th email to them since I started doing that in December so each got 6 only addressed to themselves, including todays. So you would think that one of them might have responded but DTV must keep that place locked up so tight that everyone is afraid or told not to respond. The idea behind finally letting on to who all's on the email list was maybe it will jar someone into doing something because their boss is on the list and now knows they did nothing about it so far. Slim chance, but always a possibility.

BTW Good post earlier, you made some very good points.

I don't have the patience any more to sit on the phone each time and explain it over again to the CSR "that never heard of this problem". I have recorded names and ID's every time I have called though. They seem to know everyone of my occurrences though, because last time I did call in the CSR made reference to those occurrences from my account and since I didn't call them in the only way they'd get on there is from my emails. So it must be partially working or the CSR was mistaken, 50-50 bet either way.


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## stiletto10

I'm new to this forum (today) and I havn't had a chance to read every post in this string so I may be saying something ya'll already know. I to have had this problem. I had no idea that it was this widespread. The last time I called DirecTv about this I was told to get a new access card (at a cost of $20) I have not had the problem since...HOWEVER I was only having the problem once or twice every couple of months, so we'll see if the new access card really works. Just remember...it is far more effective to "write" to DirecTv than to call them and have them notate your complaint on your account. Write them after every occurence. At some point they will probably contact you. 

John


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## cmckenney

Would someone please point out to Hughes management that until this bug appeared, owners of the boxes with this CRITICAL BUG were--by definition--their most reliable, profitable, loyal, and even evangelistic customers, and that Common Sense Customer Relations Rule #1 says to do what it takes, within reason, to retain them?

At worst, put older gen machines at the top of any "waiting" list for critical software fixes. At best, proactively replace older gen machines at no cost for long-term, reliable, original owners.

Consider the actual wholesale cost of a new box, compared to years of paid and future monthly subscriptions.

Can you say "recall"? How about "class action"?


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## BrettStah

Yes, let's threaten to sue... that's the ticket to success.


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## tivoreno

Well, I just got hit by this for the first time in a very long time. Still very annoying! I'm not quite sure when I got hit, perhaps a few days ago. Lost my favorites, but when I went to CIR, they were all set. The machine had not rebooted because the 30 sec skip and sort were still there. My guess is that the channels were selected at the next call after they were zapped.


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## drew2k

I don't know if anyone's seen it yet, but this post over at DBS Forums has some information about the Series 1 favorite channels disappearing issue that I haven't seen posted here before. Hope it helps ...


> Contrary to what I have seen posted, it is not necessary for the box to go through a fresh "indexing" to repopulate the To Do list. There is a daemon, separate from full blown indexing, that finds that the channels are "back" and repopulates the To Do list. Again, this happens within about 20 to 30 minutes after rebooting.
> 
> Some things I've heard from reliable sources about the "loss of most/all channels bug":
> It affects "Series I" DirecTiVos only.
> It is in, or related to, the code that interfaces to the P4 access cards (because the P4 cards support the activation of DVR features).
> A fix is in the works.
> It is an entirely separate bug, in an entirely separate part of the code, from the bug causing the false "Acquiring Guide Data" banners.
> Whether this particular problem will be fixed in the same release that fixes the "Acquiring Guide Data" problem, I have no idea. I suppose that it's conceivable that this is the reason that the code is being rolled out to the Series II units only right now (because they have a fix in the works for both of these problems in the Series I). But, this is sheer speculation on my part. I have no information (reliable or not) about this.


Also see the following post from Dan Collins.


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## stevel

The notion that it is related to the access card interface makes a lot of sense, as this fits in with the loss of local and premium channels.


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## stiletto10

I have heard mention of this on other sites. As far as my series 1 with a newer P4 access card goes, only time will tell if the new card was the trick.
If this doesn't fix it I will be all over both TiVo and DirecTv for a replacement unit.....warrenty or not!! REMEMBER if you contact either company make sure it is in snail mail form, worded "NICELY", to the point and include the approx. number of times you have dealt with cust. serv. Don't demand a new unit, just ask them what they're going to do. Also...send it certified mail as that method almost always means some sort of response. DON'T GIVE UP


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## stevel

Happened to me again earlier this week. My wife missed some of her recordings - again.


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## dbett

Happened to my T60 sometime last night.  

So I'll be spending some time tonight recreating the Favorites Guide.

At least it was the first time. Hopefully, this doesn't become a regular occurence.


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## PJO1966

This happened twice this week... with a twist. The Favorites list disappeared, but it did not affect my To Do list at all. This is a bit confusing because I had Favorites selected and was only surfing through those channels. Last time it happened I was admonished by the DirecTV CSR because I didn't call before reselecting my Favorites. This time I just left them as is and will calll back when I get a chance. I know they're not going to tell me anything differently. At the very least I'll find out if she actually put a note in my account last time.


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## stevel

Favorites does not affect ToDo. This topic's title is misleading, since the REAL problem is that the Channels I Receive list often gets deleted as well, and that does kill the ToDo.


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## BlankMan

Not seeing any reports in close to a week I was starting to wonder if it was still happening or not. Needless to say it's been a few weeks since I was hit, but every time after reports start coming in here it happens to me again in a week or two. I've been trying to check all three T60's every day so I can be sure of the day when it actually occurs.


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## BigDogues

Happened to me too. This is the second time I've had to relist all my favorites. I'm not very happy, especially because it didn't record my wife's shows. (I should put HER on the phone with customer service!) I have yet to understand why they never created a way to save favorite show listings for individual users. Then have the ability to reload from memory when an outage happpens.
Maybe in Series 6 7/8ths?

Phil


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## dbett

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Favorites does not affect ToDo. This topic's title is misleading, since the REAL problem is that the Channels I Receive list often gets deleted as well, and that does kill the ToDo. *


Yeah, I posted before I read more of the thread.

My plan is to do an unplug/reset and then recreate both the recieve and favorites list.

Then hopefully, DTv will fix this in the near future.

I really don't want to replace my T60 since it has lifetime service - and I fear that DTv will remove lifetime from my account if I cancel out that box.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Favorites does not affect ToDo. This topic's title is misleading, since the REAL problem is that the Channels I Receive list often gets deleted as well, and that does kill the ToDo. *


 When this thread started the title was accurate, the problem morphed into losing Channels I Receive, or I missed that the first time it happened to me, well at any rate...

I also asked the Mods to change the title back when Brett suggested it, and even gave them one that they could cut and paste, as you can see that did not happen.


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## bullitt

> _Originally posted by dbett _
> *Happened to my T60 sometime last night.
> 
> So I'll be spending some time tonight recreating the Favorites Guide.
> 
> At least it was the first time. Hopefully, this doesn't become a regular occurence. *


I've had it happen twice in last 3 weeks, this time I had to unplug and reset to get back channels 2 - 81 on both I Receive and Favorites.
For last couple of weeks I've had message on bottom of screen indicating satellite is acquiring data and guide may be incomplete.


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## wired711

> _Originally posted by bullitt _
> *For last couple of weeks I've had message on bottom of screen indicating satellite is acquiring data and guide may be incomplete. *


The "acquiring data" message is appearing for nearly everyone as far as I know (even when the sat is NOT currently acquiring data). It's a completely separate issue from the loosing favorites/loosing channels I receive/loosing the actual channels/loosing the ToDo lists issue.


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## MighTiVo

Yet another reason to provide a more robust website for managing your TiVo. If we could save settings we could restore them. The main reason to provide this would be the ability to transfer channels, recording, season passes, etc. to a new box but restorin after a failure like this is another good use.


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## dcluck

I just had this happen to me for the first time last Wednesday on our unmodified SAT-T60. Wife called DirecTV support last night and the csr didn't have any clue. Tomorrow I'll be giving them a call back and asking to speak with someone higher up in order to see what they really know.

~Dave


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## dwynne

My "bad" box lost the channels again on Saturday the 14th. It has been less than 3 weeks since the last time, and 13 days since I last rebooted the box - to see if rebooting it from time to time would prevent it.

This time I lost all the favorites, but not all of the channels. Of course, I could have caught it before they all were lost. Also, this time it still had all the "todo" items intact. A reboot, a reselection of channels, and all is back to normal. I guess I will try rebooting every week and see if that helps.

Dennis


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## PJO1966

I lost mine again this week and called in just to have them mark it in my account again. The CSR checked with someone in Advanced Troubleshooting. She came back with some info I had and some I didn't have. She said it was a software problem and TiVo was working on a fix for it. I asked if that was the software download that was currently making its rounds. She said they had started to release it, but there was a problem and downloads were stopped. She had no timeline as to when they would resume. This is what I was told, believe what you will. As always, I take all info from the CSR's with a grain of salt, but this sounds like it makes sense. At the very least, they are acknowledging that the problem exists.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *with a grain of salt*


 Block. 



> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> * At the very least, they are acknowledging that the problem exists. *


 Betcha the next person that calls in gets the "I've never heard of that problem before".  It's happened to me. One time an _Advanced_ CSR acknowledges it, next time it's _unkown_ again. Go figure.


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## PJO1966

she didn't know about it either until she spoke with the other person. it's still not exactly common knowledge


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## steves

happened to me today again


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## jkrell

This has happened to me as well, but I didn't put two and two together until now. Previously, a show that had been scheduled to record would not be recorded, and in the Recording History, it would say "This program was no longer in the program guide." Last night, I went and checked HBO (Sex and the City did not record on Sunday and my wife was pissed), and between 8 pm and 5 am there was no guide information.

I think this has previously happened to me with Monk (USA Network), Miami Vice (Spike) and various HBO shows.

The weird thing is that it does not seem to be an ongoing problem. For Miami Vice, at least, the program is recording normally now. Will take a bit to determine whether HBO and USA are OK, too. I've got unrelated problems with Monk and HBO shows, as well, but I am pretty sure they are unrelated.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THIS PROBLEM? I started reading this thread but it is now HUGE and I frankly don't have the time. Anyone got updates? Any sign of it being fixed?

Just another reason to sell my SAT-T60 when the HDTiVo comes out.

BTW, my box is an original unmodified SAT-T60. Been running fine since day 1 back in 2001.


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## stevel

There are suggestions that it is being fixed, but nothing definite. You should call DirecTV and complain.

As for buying a HDTiVo - that's what they want you to do!


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## Dirac

The fact that stevel's post was the 500th on the topic and DirecTV STILL won't acknowledge the problem publicly is more than irritating.


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## Tutman

Once again for me. This box hadn't been hit since December. A little out of the ordinary for me this time. Channels I Receive didn't get wiped out. All channels in Favorites got wiped out except locals. I didn't have to reboot, and I didn't lose any recordings.

C'mon D*, I am sick of hearing from your CSRs that this is not a known issue. There are only two possible reasons for this: 1) Your CSR turnover rate is 100% every 3 months, or 2) You don't have a knowledge base available to the CSRs. I'm betting #2 for sure, and #1 is probably close.

Every single time I have called, the TIVO specialist starts typing in notes. Then I get put on hold (probably to ask 1 or 2 other CSRs if they have heard about it). They come back telling me either that they hadn't heard of it, or that they have heard of it and TIVO is working on a fix. Never any useful information.

This next upgrade better fix this problem, or I won't stop until I get both of my units replaced.


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## thefisherman

whose problem is it tivo or direct tv, pls post when fix is out. can't believe they let this go on.


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## stevel

It is DirecTV's problem. TiVo's role is as a subcontractor.


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## Avenger

Well, the T60 I have in my kitchen just experienced this. I missed several recordings as a result. This is really unacceptable. It is appalling that DirecTV hasn't straightened this out. This is a subscription service that they are selling, and it is up to them to see to it that it functions as promised.


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## BrettStah

It appears to me that it is being worked on, and will be fixed in a future software update as soon as they can get it tested and deployed. I'm no longer as annoyed as I was when I got when I'd call and get "We've never heard of this before." I'll wait for the fix, which I think is coming in the next few months.


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## thefisherman

i sent in a message for help yesterday to direct tvnand they gave a response today of unplug and reset. have been thru that drill many times. getting as bad as cable companies.


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## PJO1966

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *It appears to me that it is being worked on, and will be fixed in a future software update as soon as they can get it tested and deployed. I'm no longer as annoyed as I was when I got when I'd call and get "We've never heard of this before." I'll wait for the fix, which I think is coming in the next few months. *


I'm with Brett on this. They are working on it. I'd rather have a TiVo with this annoying bug than no TiVo at all.


----------



## cgar

This issue has finally reared its ugly head on my hueghs box. I called directv last night and they told me they were aware of the problem and made a note in my file. 
They couldn't give me a time frame as to when this issue would be resolved.
This doesn't look good.


----------



## tivoreno

Hit me again last night, missed 4 recordings because they were "no longer in the program guide"; to do list shows "None Scheduled" for all shows; no networks in the guide, local or distant, no premiums, and no fox sportsnet; none of those even show up as selectable channels in CYR; but of the channels still remaining in the guide, they are still selected in favorites.

A reboot wiped out favorites, selected all channels in CYR, restored missing channels, and the to do list is back.


----------



## waynenm

I've spoken to a DirecTV manager who told me he was having the same problems we're *all* having. I know this has been said before, but he did say the "fix" was coming with a software upgrade to version 3.1.1c, which supposedly started rolling out on February 2nd, and will take 6-8 weeks to get through the system. This is absolutely absurd, considering the "fix" is available. I asked Tivo tech support if there was any other way to install the patch - such as accessing the USB port. Tivo has in fact done this kind of thing before, via various network interfaces - so I felt like someone there might shine a little truth on this subject. I received a very nice reply from E. Stephen Mack, Director of Tivo Service Operations.

I don't know what kind of games DirecTV is playing, but I'd say it's quite obvious that the software upgrade could be distributed by Tivo *if DirecTV would allow them to do it!* Here's Stephen's mail:

From: "E. Stephen Mack" <[email protected]>
Date: February 15, 2004 9:04:00 PM MST
To: Wayne Scheiner <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Season Passes Disappear / Acquiring Program Data / v 3.1.1.C upgrade

Dear Mr. Scheiner,

Thanks for writing, and I understand your frustration and desire.
Unfortunately I can't help you; we've been explicitly instructed
by DIRECTV to roll out software in the way that we're doing. We
have proposed some alternatives to DIRECTV, and I understand that
they are considering these methods (which include something similar
to what you propose). But the best channel to express your wishes
is with DIRECTV, so that they can give us the go-ahead.

Thanks for choosing TiVo!

Best regards,
S.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway - I know this question has been asked, but I've not seen an answer:
"Has anyone received the 3.1.1c upgrade?"

Wayne


----------



## Darichard

Grrr... removed in edit. Posted to wrong thread.


----------



## jkrell

> _Originally posted by Darichard _
> *Sooo, DISH is willing to give me 2 free DVRs without requirign a 1 year serice contract - I can quit whenever I want to. I know the DISH DVR isn't as cool as TiVo, but I wonder if it's time to give DTV a few months to get their act together. Plus the DISH HD DVR is out now, the HD DirecTiVo may ship in April.
> 
> Hate to do this, but I can't see the downside in going to DISH for a few months. *


Why'd you post this here??!?! Get the right thread!


----------



## wired711

Thank you very much waynenm for posting this update including the letter from Tivo Service Ops Director. I've been hit two more times in the last month or so (one on each of my two GXCEBOTD unaltered units). The old story, down to a handful of channels (aprox 500-600 range), lost Todo lists, had to reboot to restore everything. Last time it happened was on Feb 13th. Like everyone here, I'm so very tired and frustrated by this. Loosing convenience features is one thing when our Favorites or Channels I Receive are wiped out but lost channels that can no longer be received and the resulting missed recordings in ToDo lists is a disaster. This is inexcusable to be going on this long and especially now when a fix is ready to be deployed. A quick and immediate path should be chosen to get the fix out to everyone who needs it now!

It's clear we've all been paying the price big time since DirecTV took over full support. I know that I for one, would gladly pay the old $10 per month service rate when Tivo was in charge of support rather than the $5 we do now for bad support. At least there's more reports of acknowledgment of the issue now but doesn't do much good unless they get the fix out! Thanks again.
Wired


----------



## waynenm

Well, I'm glad I got some tangible information from both DirecTV (the "second level" tech support guy I talked to told me he couldn't even get *his own* units upgraded) and E. Stephen Mack at Tivo. The question remains though - has ANYONE received the 3.1.1c upgrade?

Wayne


----------



## jkrell

I'm still stuck with 3.1.0b.


----------



## TV addict

> _Originally posted by waynenm _
> *I've spoken to a DirecTV manager who told me he was having the same problems we're *all* having. I know this has been said before, but he did say the "fix" was coming with a software upgrade to version 3.1.1c, which supposedly started rolling out on February 2nd, and will take 6-8 weeks to get through the system. This is absolutely absurd, considering the "fix" is available. I asked Tivo tech support if there was any other way to install the patch - such as accessing the USB port. Tivo has in fact done this kind of thing before, via various network interfaces - so I felt like someone there might shine a little truth on this subject. I received a very nice reply from E. Stephen Mack, Director of Tivo Service Operations.
> 
> Anyway - I know this question has been asked, but I've not seen an answer:
> "Has anyone received the 3.1.1c upgrade?"*


I think there is some confusion here.

There are 2 different problems occurring.

One problem is the "Acquiring Program Guide data" message on the screen. This problem is being discussed in another thread. This problem is occuring with all DTiVo's. Most people claim this is a cosmetic problem, but some people claim that it is causing other problems. I believe software update 3.1.1c should fix this problem with second generation DTiVo's. I don't think that software is for the second generation DTiVo's.

The other problem is the lose of favorite channels, and most of the "Channels You receive". This problem is only being seen on the first generation DTiVo's. I believe this problem is caused by the 3.1.0b software and some P4 access cards. This is the problem being discussed in this thread.

You must be seeing the first problem, because you refer to the USB ports. These don't exit on the first generation DTiVo's.

When we discuss these problem with Direct TV, we need to make sure we make clear which problem we are talking about, or we are just causing more confussion.


----------



## John Hafer

Well, I have been lurking here and reading this thead for weeks and thought it was about time I added my name to the "list" of folks who have this problem.

So with that, yes I too have this problem. I have a Sony SAT-T60 and it randomly will drop my channel lists. I will turn on the TV and find a blue banner that says" Channel is not available" even though the TiVo was left tuned to a known good channel.

Doing a receiver reset, corrects the problem, but then I have to go through and re-select all my favorite channels and channels I receive lists.

I thought this was happening only when I would turn off the DirecTiVo, (set it to standby), so I decided to leave it on. Still no good. It sill happened.

So, add me to the "list".


----------



## thefisherman

direct tv are paying any attention at all????


----------



## Majestic-NJ

Add me to the list of people that didn't get SITC tonight. I had the problem last week and decided to manualy record the 3 episodes that were in the guide for this week. Tonight I came home to a "did not record because of internal error #4." and that was it. No SITC. Boy am I pissed! Just hung up with John/Floor Supervisor in Tech Support who says that he has opened a tracking ticket regarding this complaint. He said that as people call in with the same problem it will be added to the tracking ticket. Funny thing is he tried to pull the BS answer of not hearing about this problem from anyone else so far. I told him to back off and refrain from passing crap off to me. I told him that I was serious and want something done.

So, call people and complain. We need to send DirectTV a wakeup call. I am also sending an email to News.com to see how interested they may be in this.

Good luck! 

Fred


----------



## waynenm

I think it is quite interesting that NOBODY has said they have the 3.1.1.c upgrade.
Anybody?


----------



## Deven

Okay, I just read through all 27 pages and 522 posts that this thread currently contains. It took several hours just to read the entire thread. I haven't had time to participate in this forum for quite some time, but my SAT-T60 just lost the favorites list yet again. It has happened to my SAT-T60 a number of times in the past few months, and to my DSR6000 a couple times too.

Just because only a small percentage of users *report* the problem doesn't mean that others aren't experiencing it also. I've experienced this problem repeatedly, and at first I shrugged it off as an annoyance, but it keeps happening and it's really starting to become aggravating. I haven't made a "cheat sheet" of my channels yet, but I believe I need to do so.

I intend to call DirecTV about this, although I'm not sure I'm prepared to make this a crusade yet or not...


----------



## Deven

Oh, I forgot to mention. What makes this *particularly* aggravating is that I get "This channel list has not been set up." for my Favorites list, and I go to the Customize Channels screen, check all channels, select "Done selecting channels" and the list is STILL not set up. I can go right back in to customize the Favorite Channels, and everything is unchecked EVERY TIME. This is ridiculous, and I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned this variation of the problem. I would try rebooting the box, but it's in the middle of recording something...


----------



## Deven

Interesting. Looking at the dbsforums thread that was linked earlier, I noticed this post with information that I didn't see here:

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=278330#post278330

Apparently this bug is related to older P4 access cards, and there is a newer version of the P4 access card that doesn't exhibit the problem. So perhaps the people having constant troubles with this issue should be pushing the DirecTV CSRs to send them new access cards, ideally for free. It sounds like that might resolve the problem. (Assuming they're exclusively sending out these newer P4 cards now...)


----------



## thefisherman

i called direct tv four times. they did send me an access card. trust me when i say it does not fix the problem. can someone get a link of this thread to someone at directtv that will actually read it?


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by TV addict _
> *The other problem is the lose of favorite channels, and most of the "Channels You receive". This problem is only being seen on the first generation DTiVo's. I believe this problem is caused by the 3.1.0b software and some P4 access cards. This is the problem being discussed in this thread. *


 Nope, it happened in 3.1.0 also, it started way before 3.1.0b was rolled out. There's also been reference that it happened with 2.5.

This thread is approaching it one year anniversary, this problem has been around for possibly close to two years (or more). There were a couple threads reporting it before this one that my search missed before starting this one.


----------



## TV addict

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Nope, it happened in 3.1.0 also, it started way before 3.1.0b was rolled out. There's also been reference that it happened with 2.5.
> 
> This thread is approaching it one year anniversary, this problem has been around for possibly close to two years (or more). There were a couple threads reporting it before this one that my search missed before starting this one. *


You are correct. What I was trying to say was that this problem does not exist with second generation DTiVo's, which currently have 3.1.1b.

Some people think this problem is the same as the "Acquiring Program Guide data" problem. This is causing alot of confusion.

If Direct TV does fix this problem, the software version will probably not be 3.1.1c. It might be 3.1.0c. This is not a second generation DTiVo problem.


----------



## TV addict

> _Originally posted by waynenm _
> *I think it is quite interesting that NOBODY has said they have the 3.1.1.c upgrade.
> Anybody? *


That might because 3.1.1c has nothing to do with this problem. 3.1.1c is for a second generation DTiVo. The problem being discussed in this thread only affect first generation DTiVos. This problem is not related to the "Acquiring Program Guide data" problem.


----------



## TV addict

> _Originally posted by thefisherman _
> *i called direct tv four times. they did send me an access card. trust me when i say it does not fix the problem. can someone get a link of this thread to someone at directtv that will actually read it? *


It has been reported that there are 2 versions of the P4 access card. Possibly Direct TV shipped you an older one. I wander if someone could find out how to detirmine which version a P4 card is?


----------



## dwynne

Well, things have gone from bad to worse.

Last night I did a reboot - to try to prevent the lost channel and favorites problem. AFTER the reboot, all the favorites were gone and ALL channels were selected.

Now tonight, when I turned on the TV that DTivo is in a loop.

It says "Welcome. Powering Up", sits there for 10 seconds, then the green light goes out, the video flickers, and it comes right back to the same message. No storms here, the DTivo is plugged into a UPS as well. Unplugging and re-powering the unit get no place.

Sounds like maybe a fried hard drive? I did a search and did not find a match for my exact problem. This is a new drive (120gb?) I put in a few months back.

I wonder if this is related to the losing channels problem? Maybe a flaky drive makes it lose the channels and now my problems has gone "solid" ?

Dennis


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by dwynne _
> *Well, things have gone from bad to worse.
> 
> Last night I did a reboot - to try to prevent the lost channel and favorites problem. AFTER the reboot, all the favorites were gone and ALL channels were selected.
> 
> Now tonight, when I turned on the TV that DTivo is in a loop.
> 
> It says "Welcome. Powering Up", sits there for 10 seconds, then the green light goes out, the video flickers, and it comes right back to the same message. No storms here, the DTivo is plugged into a UPS as well. Unplugging and re-powering the unit get no place.
> 
> Sounds like maybe a fried hard drive? I did a search and did not find a match for my exact problem. This is a new drive (120gb?) I put in a few months back.
> 
> I wonder if this is related to the losing channels problem? Maybe a flaky drive makes it lose the channels and now my problems has gone "solid" ?
> 
> Dennis *


 Nope. More likely a bad drive. Been there 4, 5 times.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by TV addict _
> *You are correct. What I was trying to say was that this problem does not exist with second generation DTiVo's, which currently have 3.1.1b.
> 
> Some people think this problem is the same as the "Acquiring Program Guide data" problem. This is causing alot of confusion.
> 
> If Direct TV does fix this problem, the software version will probably not be 3.1.1c. It might be 3.1.0c. This is not a second generation DTiVo problem. *


 Agreed. My HDVR2 never had the problem.

Didn't mean to sound ornery, I've seen a lot of people call this cosmetic and try to minimize it, mostly because it never happened to them, but it has become a major pain and a disruption of service, i.e. it misses recording.


----------



## TonyD79

Add me to the brigade of those seeing the problem.

First time yesterday.

Did a reboot, reset the lists and forced the To Do by making mods to the SP lists (took about 25 minutes).


----------



## BlankMan

Grrrrr.....

Well it just happened again to my TiVo1 unit a T60. Only 3 channels are left in my Favorite Channels list, all channels below 173 are gone from the Channels I Receive list, HBO channels except HBOL are gone, Showtime and Movie channels are gone, Music only channels are gone, and a lot more then I'm mentioning here. And they're all telling me "Channel not available". Now there's only 2 channels left in my Favorite Channels list, they're still disappearing!

The fact that they are continuing to disappear right before my eyes is something I've not noticed before. Be nice to hear an explanation of this problem, but fat chance from DirecTV, they're not a Customer orientated company.

E-mailed the Exec's again, haven't done that in a while, guess I'll have to set up a script to do it daily. 

I knew I was due, it's been a while. My TiVo1 is the only one I can check remotely, I'll have to look at TiVo2 and TiVo3 when I get home, but I'm sure they'll get nailed again in the next week or two, always seem too.


----------



## BlankMan

Unbelievable. Well I guess not really.

This was the response to my email of this morning. An email that I just add each occurrence to and send, so it is a running track history of these occurrences dating back to almost a year now.

Shows _Abhishek_ spent a whole 2 milliseconds looking into this problem. And it still amazes me that people stick up for DirecTV's Support people. This is a shining example of just how good they are.  (Well probably not all of them, it's not fair to lump all of them into the same basket with one bad apple I know.)


> Dear <BlankMan>,
> 
> Thank you for writing. We apologize for any inconvenience. However,
> resetting your system can resolve many of the problems you could be
> experiencing. To reset your system, follow these steps:
> 
> 1. Leave the receiver on.
> 2. Unplug it from the electrical outlet.
> 3. Leave it unplugged for 15 seconds.
> 4. Reconnect it to the electrical outlet and return to normal viewing.
> 
> If this does not resolve your problem, please call our technical support
> center. To reach them, call 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for
> technical assistance.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Abhishek
> DIRECTV Customer Service


Well, I wrote a script and cron'd it so the Exec's will be getting a daily reminder to look into this problem.


----------



## stevel

More likely they'll add you to a "junk senders" list.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *More likely they'll add you to a "junk senders" list. *


 Probably already have. Probably laughing at this guy _Hey he thinks he's got the right email addresses and is geting through_. Yeah well I know, but gotta keep trying.


----------



## cramer

Mine S1 lost it's channel list -- entirely this time -- at exactly 8:13pm tonight. One thing I find odd... the last GC completed at 00:57. That's right, no garbage collection ALL DAY LONG. I should remove the system drive and have a looky at the logs.

And I just fired this off to the monkeys at DTV:


> Tivo Service ID: ...-BA48
> 
> At 8:13pm EST 2/26/2004, the receiver lost it's entire channel list. It has previously lost portions of the channel list. The last time was just over a month ago.
> 
> Don't waste my time telling me to power cycle the receiver -- it's a TIVO, you should never have to power cycle it. And as everyone is very well aware, a reboot is the *only* way to get the channel list back. This is a very well known problem even if DTV won't acknowledge it.
> 
> See Also: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115194
> 
> (Tivo, Inc. will not hunt down and fix this bug until DirecTV tells them to do so.)


Maybe we should just start the class action suit already.


----------



## Deven

How do you tell the new P4 card from the old P4 card? According to the post I saw, the new P4 card has a silver edge. I guess that's how you tell them apart.


----------



## cramer

> _Originally posted by Deven _
> *How do you tell the new P4 card from the old P4 card? According to the post I saw, the new P4 card has a silver edge. I guess that's how you tell them apart. *


As others have indicated, the new P4's don't fix the problem. I've had the same P4 card in this tivo since 8/2002 (there abouts) and it never malfunctioned until 12/2003.

Someone (both Tivo and Directv) changed the way things work and created the problem. In fact, many things have changed creating a plethora of oddities and s*** that just doesn't work the way it should (notice how you cannot remove the shopping channels or ch 170?) To say this problem is "rare" is a major understatement. It happens randomly without any idication or warning thus compromising system reliability. You can no longer rely on the tivo to record what you expect it to as at any moment, it could lose the channel -- even while you're watching it. So, you have to watch the show as it's recorded to be sure it's recorded... what's the point then.

It can lose its channels at any time aborting the current recording(s). It'll drop everything from the to-do list -- in most cases permanently without user intervention (move the #1 SP to the bottom of the list and then move it back to the top -- the process can take a _long_ time.) And if you don't catch it in time, the garbage collector will delete _all_ of the guide data.


----------



## TonyD79

> _Originally posted by cramer _
> *(notice how you cannot remove the shopping channels or ch 170?) *


Huh? I just removed shopping channels when my Sony did this for the first time the other day.


----------



## stevel

I have no problems removing any channels I want to remove. I just wish the TiVo didn't remove channels on its own!


----------



## TV addict

> _Originally posted by Deven _
> *How do you tell the new P4 card from the old P4 card? According to the post I saw, the new P4 card has a silver edge. I guess that's how you tell them apart. *


I was told that the the first generation P4s are light blue and have a "4" on them. The second generation P4s are dark blue with a silver border.

I just was told this about 30 minutes ago, so I have not looked at my access cards yet. I received my P4 access cards in 2002, so I assume they are first generation.


----------



## steelcurtain

Well, this just happened to me today on my 6000R. My HDVR2 has, so far, been unaffected. 

I restarted the unit and readded all the channels, but still no upcoming recordings. I'm going to try to jog the SP list a bit and see if that works.


----------



## stevel

It takes a few hours for the ToDo list to repopulate.


----------



## BlankMan

Well my daily reminder emails to DirecTV are generating a response. On Friday my answering machine had a message to call them. Once again I told them (via email) that this is not an issue that can be fixed over the phone and unplugging it for 15 seconds will not eliminate it either.

Today I got a call from Eileen at DirecTV. I was on the phone with her for quite a while, explaining the whole situation and the frustration dealing with them and also getting the _I've never heard of this before_ answer. I explained how TiVo was able to reproduce the problem and gave her the names of TiVoOpsMgr and TiVoBill as people at TiVo that are aware of this problem. She took down TiVoOpsMgr email address at TiVo and told me she was going to try and raise this issue up with DirecTV corporate.

She also wanted to make sure these units were running the latest software, 3.1.0b, which they are (course the newest software to her was 3.1, she was not aware of "b") and that they have P4 cards, which they do. We got onto the subject of the P4 cards and that I had heard (but I told her I do not know for a fact) that there is a newer P4 cards, but I also told her that it has been reported that the newer P4 card does not solve the problem. At any rate, after she spoke with a supervisor, they are going to send me three new P4 cards and I told her I will try that if nothing else to rule that out. I think I got my P4 cards before 3.1 came out so that would put it in 2002, if my memory serves me correctly.

She also said that it would help if people called in the problem and not just post about it. I told that they do, and tend to get the _I've never heard of this before_ response, even when they themselves have called it in before. I told her that people are having it noted on their account, and she admitted that really doesn't do anything as far as getting the attention of anyone that can/will do something about it.

She mentioned if they had a list of people that would help, well Doh! you do. (I thought that but didn't say it.) I offered to compile a list if there was some way I could get it to them. She said there was no way she could do that, said she doesn't have access to email herself (furthers my suspicion that DirecTV is run very tight, like the Gestapo), but she will see if there is a way to do that and if anyone there would want to do that. I also told her that back in September/October 2003 E. Stephen Mack at TiVo did that, got ID numbers of affected units from people, so I reinforced my suggestion to have someone at DirecTV contact him.

So, if that can be done, who would be willing to PM me their real name as it appears on the DirecTV statement if indeed DirecTV wants a list? I would not want account numbers and I would not publish the list other then give it to DirecTV. I doubt this will happen knowing DirecTV, but I want to be prepared. Don't PM me now (my inbox is kinda full), but just post here if you'd be willing to do that to increase the chances of this getting fixed.

_<added>_

I just noticed on my Caller ID that the call from DirecTV came from Boise Idaho, guess it would be hard for her to walk it over to Corporate.


----------



## stevel

I don't think we need a long list of "me too" responses. I think it's reasonable to assume that enough of us would be willing to do almost ANYTHING to get this fixed.

I do note with annoyance/amusement that the DirecTV supervisor who promised to call me back within two weeks with status never did so. I have called about this four times now.


----------



## BlankMan

Well I hope so, and do agree about the posts. My only concern was that if they take me up on it I can do it and not have people afraid to pass on that information, ergo I can't come through. People can be funny that way sometimes.


----------



## dwynne

I have mentioned before, I have 3 DTivos (2 series 1 and 1 series 2). Only one of the S1 DTivos has this problem.

The hard drive crashed in it last week. I will be curious to see if after restoring the image from last year then re-downloading the OS update all on a new drive if the problem goes away or comes back. 

Dennis


----------



## TheRogueMarine

The reason why no one really knows how big of problem this is is because that information hasn't reached the front-line grunts. I personally didn't realize how big of a problem this was until I was introduced to the forums. I suspect the reason behind that is because there's no fix for it yet. None of my information at work, at least that I've noticed, mentioned this. I haven't been in the office for about 10 days now, so God may have had that stuff put in while I was gone, but I doubt it.

Having a list of people who are experiencing this problem, IMO, wouldn't serve a big help if the problem can be recreated in the lab and the problem has been identified. I'll be keeping my eyes out and hopefully something will happen soon. All of this talk has me paranoid about my RCA DVR40, and just like how some people can't live without their WWF, I can't live without me Robot Wars and Family Guy.


----------



## Ensoniq

> _Originally posted by TonyD79 _
> *Huh? I just removed shopping channels when my Sony did this for the first time the other day. *


I think what Cramer is referring to is an issue I have experienced myself where there are a few channels that keep getting put BACK into your list after you have removed them. (The opposite of the problem where people are having problems with channels getting removed...)

Once a day, I go into the "Channels You Receive" section and manually remove the following channels:

HERE GEMS CSHP DSN

Within 24 hours, the channels have been re-added back on my list of channels I receive. (This is on two different Series 1 DTiVos with 3.1.0b software and P4 access cards.)

What's interesting is that if you go and check the channels list at certain times of day, you'll find those channels missing. Not just unselected...but actually MISSING...not in the list of channels at all. (Such as right now...which is why I am listing the channels only by name and not # because I can't find the numbers.)


----------



## paul_w_downing

What is the best thing I (and others) can to help raise visibility, or is it just a sit and wait type issue ?

I've had Direct-Tivo going on about 2 years. The issue has been going on at least that long. Once every 6-8 months this has happened to me. It was within my threshold of tollerance. But I've had 4 incidents in the past 2 months.

For Stat Keepers

Hughes units - 1 W/ Added HD, - 1 Original, Oval Dish. Usually it hits one, then a few days / weeks later it hits another. Last week (Wed ?) it both at the same time. UPS on both units.

I've had Two type of issues.

#1. Lost everything below 2xx (Around Nov / Dec) - Unplug fixed
#2. All "Channels you Received" selected, messing up SP's

I could not read all 28 pages of posts here, but my $.02 says it's something in the stream that is either there purposely (like when they add a channel or want to make certain you have all your shopping channels), or something that Tivo does not like in the stream having unintended issues.

Good Luck, if there is a list sign me up. If there is person inside of DTV that I can at one more to the counter with, let me know.


----------



## BlankMan

I typically only remove one channel from the Channels I Receive list and it stays removed until one of these events occur, then after the reboot to get all the channels back it is back also. I have not seen it return at any other time.


----------



## dwynne

> _Originally posted by paul_w_downing _
> *but my $.02 says it's something in the stream that is either there purposely (like when they add a channel or want to make certain you have all your shopping channels), or something that Tivo does not like in the stream having unintended issues.
> *


Just FYI, my DTivo that has this problem has only the locals, the premiums I subscribe to, and select other channels. There are a LOT of channels removed from my preferences - all the DTV, PPV, NHL, shopping, and more.

On the other 1st gen box (never had the problem) there are a LOT more channels. When Tivo adds one "automatically" I usually don't get around to removing it any time soon.

Dennis


----------



## BlankMan

Well well well. Interesting. My daily reminder email to the 62 Exec's listed here were all returned to me today with a _554 Mailbox unavailable_ status.

So, either their mail system is unavailable or they have finally blocked me, how absolutely RUDE of them! But by doing so they tipped their hand and verified that the email addresses were correct, something I had been wondering about. We'll see if it happens again tomorrow. If so, I'll have to change the source of my emails.

Boy if that's how DirecTV deals with their customers, shut them out instead of dealing with the actual problem, that's a pretty sorry state.

Being a Sys Admin I should be able to get around this. (All legal and above board.) They probably think they're dealing with a PC Desk Jockey. They may miss their daily reminder for one day every once in a while, but that's minor.


----------



## lgkahn

give me the list of emails and content I will try from here and see if they are just blocking the source address or something in the header


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by lgkahn _
> *give me the list of emails and content I will try from here and see if they are just blocking the source address or something in the header *


Thanks for the offer.

The list of email addresses is here. Pick a couple and see if they don't bounce.

This is the beginning of the message I've been sending, it is a running history of all the occurrences I have had. So you might want to remove the paragraph that references that.

Oh and you're better off to send each one individually. Their email system will not accept email for delivery if it is going to too many people. Probably have it set that way to prevent SPAM.


> Well, here's your daily reminder message reminding you to look into
> the problem DirecTV Receivers with TiVo are continually having that
> cause them to lose any channels set up in the Favorite Channels List
> and in the Channels I Receive List, the latter impacting the ability
> of the unit to record programs. Hope this helps to remind you to
> check on the progress of fixing this problem.
> 
> This email contains a running history of this problem dating back
> to at least May of 2003, so your repeatedly many recommendations
> to unplug the unit for 15 seconds and that will fix it, obviously
> has never fixed it.
> 
> You keep saying "We appreciate your patience while we research
> this further", it's going on a year, how long do you need?
> 
> Hope to hear from you soon,
> 
> <BlankMan>


----------



## lgkahn

It looks like not all are bad... only some are removed.. I ie...

Unknown user: [email protected] 
Unknown user: [email protected]

Original message follows.

Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:31:18 -0500 
Message-Id: <[email protected]> 
Mime-Version: 1.0 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii 
From: "larry kahn" <[email protected]> 
Reply-To: <[email protected]> 
To: <[email protected]>, 
<[email protected]> 
CC: <[email protected]>, 
<[email protected]> 
Subject: bug with series 1 tivo boxes losing channels.. failing to record 
X-Mailer: <IMail v8.05>


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## BlankMan

I dunno, it took 30 minutes for all 62 to come back to me this morning so... But the fact that you got it too means either their system is unavailable, maybe shutdown due to all the viruses out this week for cleaning, or they changed email addresses, or they blocked email from the outside world, or they will only accept email from known sources. Lots of Or's, We'll have to see over the course of the next few days what happens. Well at the moment it appears they didn't just block me.

Thanks again!

BTW Did you get any headers that indicate reason, like from sendmail or qmail or something?


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## theharleyman

Well, I guess I will join in here. I was not able to read through all 28 pages, so please excuse me if I state the obvious. 

This happened to me for the first time last night on my series 1 Phillips unit. My series 2 Hughes unit has not had any problems yet.

I lost most but not all of the channels from "Channels I receive" and also in "Watch Live TV". 

I re-started and everything came back, my to-do list re-populated in a couple of hours.

I guess the only bright side to the problems is that at least I didn't get the "stuck at xx% error" while re-booting!


----------



## IOTP

Yesterday or over the weekend it happened to me again. 3rd time in a month! The DSR6000, and all locals 3, 5, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 33, 45, 51, and 61 were gone, not to mention everything under 244.

I was away for a few days, went to watch the normal shows and black screen, "channel not available".

I restarted the unit and wholla, back in business. I then needed to "filter-out" the un-necessary channels (spanish, shopping, lds-net, etc.. )
channels I receive, else it trys to record NBC on the 380's vs. my local channel 12.

I'll get home and see, I am pretty sure I've been upgraded to "P4" cards. I am already dealing with "full program guide" in 1-2 days "nag" message.

I need to call those pukes (DTV) and see "what line of crap" they'll try to sell me.

Time will tell. Count to 10 and settle down. Geez.


----------



## BlankMan

Well I'm pretty convinced they put up a block or changed their addressing scheme on incoming mail at @mail.directv.com now. I tired sending from places that had no trace of my domain name, personal name, etc. in the From's or email headers. Maybe I'll go hunting again and see if it was a change.

So they'd rather ignore the problem then address it. What a totally sh*tty way to deal with their customers, but not surprising. All they seem to want to do is run commercials telling the world how great DirecTV is. 12 million customers and counting. Whoopee. They should start taking care of the customers they have instead they want more so they can subject them to this kind of service also.


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## lgkahn

yep the other 2 emails I sent eventually bounced also but with a different tried 15 times error message.


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## BrettStah

We've heard from normally reliable folks that a fix is in the works. The problem wasn't an easy one to fix, and is going to be rolled out soon (within weeks, maybe a couple of months). I don't see the point in aggravating anyone at DirecTV about it anymore.


----------



## PJO1966

Exactly... I don't see how spamming executives is going to help.


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## walkera

I'm glad I found this thread before assuming that my hard drive was failing and needed replacement.

I've had much the same expereince as most people probably have: DirecTV told me to call Sony. Sony said it sounded like a severe problem and said I should clear and delete everything. After suffering through that pain last Saturday (the one hour of downtime was actually 5 hours, and it's only an 80GB unit), everything was fine until Sunday, when the channels were gone again.


----------



## TonyD79

Different effect today. Most channels have no information but none got "lost." Hope a new data download will fix it but I am moving primary recording to HDVR2 away from T60. Gonna switch them when I get back from a trip I am going on.


----------



## Mose

Add me to the list - just got home and everything is kaput. I have a Sony T-60.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *Exactly... I don't see how spamming executives is going to help. *


SPAM'ing???  I'm not trying to sell them Viagra or enlargement products or Free Cable TV. I'm sending them a polite request to correct this problem, or at least acknowledge that they are trying. They should also inform their CSR's that the problem exists so that when customers call in with it they don't get the _I never heard of the problem before_ BS. Help Desk software with a knowledge base makes that so easy nowadays.


----------



## PJO1966

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *SPAM'ing???  I'm not trying to sell them Viagra or enlargement products or Free Cable TV. I'm sending them a polite request to correct this problem, or at least acknowledge that they are trying. They should also inform their CSR's that the problem exists so that when customers call in with it they don't get the I never heard of the problem before BS. Help Desk software with a knowledge base makes that so easy nowadays. *


From dictionary.com:

spammed, spam·ming, spams 
To send unsolicited e-mail to.

I'd say sending the same e-mail to a large number of executives at DirecTV on a daily or weekly basis qualifies as spam.

As for the CSR's... the last time I called I was informed that this was a known problem and a fix is in the works. I am not the only person in this forum to receive this information. They admit there is a problem. They are working on fixing it. What more do you want?


----------



## lgkahn

well last time I called in I got the "I never heard of the problem" BS by second level support... give me a break... that is with it noted in my record multiple times... their support just plain sucks... it's not even worth calling in my opinion. I have no problem with someone sending them emails to get it fixed.. it should not take years to get a fix to a problem when tivo has had a fix long ago. If there was an alternate supplier of tv that had the features of direct tv with tivo.. I would have switched long ago due to the terrible support and I hope they realize this... that I am not alone, and as soon as cable or someone else has the quality and features available I fear if they don't improve drastically they are going to loose lots of people.


----------



## dwynne

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *From dictionary.com:
> 
> spammed, spam?ming, spams
> To send unsolicited e-mail to.
> 
> I'd say sending the same e-mail to a large number of executives at DirecTV on a daily or weekly basis qualifies as spam.
> *


Not the same - we have a business relationship with DirecTV so we have the "right" to contact them with our problems and concerns. Hey they take our money every month, they shouldn't get their panties in a twist if the users want the products to work - and at least acknowledge the problem by answering complaints and training their staff.

Dennis


----------



## PJO1966

right... we have the right to contact customer support and tech support. Going through the corporate offices will not get anyone anywhere.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *right... we have the right to contact customer support and tech support. Going through the corporate offices will not get anyone anywhere. *


 Right, and going through _customer support and tech support_ works so well at getting issues corrected, this thread can attest to that.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *From dictionary.com:
> 
> spammed, spam·ming, spams
> To send unsolicited e-mail to.
> 
> I'd say sending the same e-mail to a large number of executives at DirecTV on a daily or weekly basis qualifies as spam.
> 
> As for the CSR's... the last time I called I was informed that this was a known problem and a fix is in the works. I am not the only person in this forum to receive this information. They admit there is a problem. They are working on fixing it. What more do you want? *


 Well then, by that definition any email you send out can be considered SPAM unless you first get permission to send it via a phone call saying send me that, or a letter in the mail telling you to reply via email, or any prior communication. By that definition you could never send out that first email message to family or friends or anyone unless they ok'd it first. Because _unsolicited_ means _Not looked for or requested_. If you're sending out invitations for a party and the recipients know nothing about it, that is unsolicited, ergo by your definition, SPAM. Granted the recipients may want it once they get it, but at the time of delivery it is SPAM, because they were not looking for it.

So any first email sent out on a topic is usually unsolicited, SPAM by your definition.

I think what the definition of SPAM is trying to convey is unsolicited email that is trying to sell something, just like all the flyers sent through the USPS.

_dwynne_ is correct, we have a business relationship with DirecTV, we are the customers, they are the vendor. In all my years or working in that type of relationship, when the customer is not satisfied with the product or services received they have every right to contact the vendor. And if satisfaction is not forthcoming through normal channels you have every right to escalate it to the next level(s). That is all that is being done here.

After having this problem for over a year, it's obvious to me (doesn't look like it is to you) that the first line of contact is not proving to be beneficial in getting this resolved, so you move up the chain.


----------



## PJO1966

And e-mailing Rupert is getting you where?


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *And e-mailing Rupert is getting you where? *


 I only did that once. And who are you? My conscious? What exactly have you done to help get this problem addressed other then express that you don't agree with other peoples methods?

And actually, I have gotten a call, from parties that have asked to remain anonymous and will, explaining to some depth what the cause of the problem is and the efforts that are underway to correct this.

So, that looks to me like it got me somewhere, wouldn't you say?

Now that I said that much, I'll say what I was told I could.

Engineering at both DirecTV and TiVo are taking this very seriously and working on. They thought a number of times that they had the fix in hand only to have it happen again, so that is what is holding up the fix. It has happened to the ranks of DirecTV employees so I was told they are well aware of it.


----------



## PJO1966

I'm just curious why you continue to send e-mails to these people when you know that they are working on it. It just seems like a waste of time to me. I apologize if I am coming off as your conscious. I'm just trying to understand. I applaud the fact that you got a response to your e-mail.


----------



## pickrarkerz

> _Originally posted by walkera _
> *I'm glad I found this thread before assuming that my hard drive was failing and needed replacement.
> *


During the same phone call I was told by the CSR that he has never heard of this problem before, that everytime he heard of it before was because of a bad hard drive, that it was caused by HBO changing their guide data at the last minute, and that it happened because they tried to send a new version of the TiVo software but had problems. 
I am sick of excuses, I want it fixed.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I'm just curious why you continue to send e-mails to these people when you know that they are working on it. It just seems like a waste of time to me. I apologize if I am coming off as your conscious. I'm just trying to understand. I applaud the fact that you got a response to your e-mail. *


 I never said I sent an email after I was informed of this. This information only came to me very recently.

I also volunteered my three T60's to run any beta code that might correct this problem, we'll see if I'm taken up on that. In my mind with three units that's like having three other volunteers, the old two birds (in this case three) with one stone.

_<added>_

But one thing I keep bringing up is that if it is known, which it obviously is now, and if it is being worked on, why is it so hard to get that information in the hands of the front lines CSR's and stop this _I've never heard of the problem_ response? Even to people that they themselves have called it in and had it noted on their account. The answer always seems to be, that they are such a large organization with many call centers and employee turnover (not necessarily leaving but moving within) that it's hard for them to do that. Well, that to me is a problem. A big problem. In this day and age of IT, it shouldn't be that hard with all the tools and applications available to be able to do that. You just have to get your head out of the sand and realize you can do it and then do it.

How big is DirecTV? How many employees do they have? I work for a big organization there are times when we have to inform 50K people. We do it. Is DirecTV that big?


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *right... we have the right to contact customer support and tech support. Going through the corporate offices will not get anyone anywhere. *


Wrong. We *have* gone through the proper channels and have gotten nowhere. I personally have called about a dozen times and have always gotten the 'We never heard of that' line. When people exhaust the 'proper' channels, there is nothing wrong with taking it to the next level. At a minimum, those 'corporate office' folks need to be aware that their support people are not doing their job.



> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I'm just curious why you continue to send e-mails to these people when you know that they are working on it. It just seems like a waste of time to me. I apologize if I am coming off as your conscious. I'm just trying to understand. *


Ok, let's talk about this alleged fix. As far as I can tell it is strictly a rumor. If you can show me an *official* statement from DirecTV that they are working on it, then I will be glad to stop bugging them. But until that happens, this rumor of a fix is just that - a rumor.

And as far as your 'wanting to understand', obviously you are not having the problem or at least not as often as some of us otherwise you would understand perfectly.


----------



## PJO1966

I have had the problem repeatedly. I have not reselected Favorite Channels while I wait for the fix. For me, it's a minor inconvenience. I understand that for others it's more than that.


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I have had the problem repeatedly. I have not reselected Favorite Channels while I wait for the fix. *


How does not reselecting favorites help? It doesn't stop it from happening and unless you leave all of the 'channels you receive' selected, it is just as fast to reselect favorites as it is to select channels you receive.


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## PJO1966

I haven't had it happen since I stopped selecting Favorite Channels. It's probably a coincidence, but so far so good.


----------



## dwynne

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *How does not reselecting favorites help? It doesn't stop it from happening and unless you leave all of the 'channels you receive' selected, it is just as fast to reselect favorites as it is to select channels you receive. *


I have 2 series 1 and 1 series 2, the "2" never has the problem - and one of the series 1 never does either. On the one that loses the channels I keep the "channels you receive" trimmed down to just what I want - and have favorites set. On the one that never fails, I don't think there are any favorites set - and I bet almost every channel is in the "channels you receive" list.

As a test, I was going to set the favorites and remove the channels we never watch on that DTivo - and see if it started failing. I just have not had time to mess with it.

Dennis


----------



## BrettStah

I haven't had the problem since I left the Favorites channel list alone either.


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## PJO1966

hmmm...


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## pickrarkerz

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *I haven't had the problem since I left the Favorites channel list alone either. *


I haven't set a favorite channels list for over a year, and still experience the problem (3 times in the past 2 weeks, but not for a few months before that).


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *I haven't had the problem since I left the Favorites channel list alone either. *


 When I see the Favorite Channels list disappear I know it has happened. As stated a number of times in this thread without that as an indicator it could be happening and you just don't know it. The channels could come back on their own and you never know it, unless a program doesn't record because the guide data is gone. Those are the two main indicators that say it happened.

I for one don't know how someone does without the Favorite Channels list unless they don't surf. Surfing through all the Channels I Receive is a major pain.

On on another note, it happened to me again today on my TiVo1 unit, but his time I happened to be viewing it. Well, actually not viewing it, listening to 841 the Blues, when all of a sudden there were no Blues! I looked at the screen and it was in the Failed to Acquire Satellite Data menu asking if I wanted to retry. I did a number of times but it never got past 29% then went back to the Failed screen asking if I wanted to try again. I wondered if it had rebooted so I looked at the uptime and it hadn't so this was definitely the problem right before my eyes. After giving it an hour or so to recoup, which it didn't, I rebooted it and sure enough, the Favorite Channels list was gone.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *Wrong. We have gone through the proper channels and have gotten nowhere. I personally have called about a dozen times and have always gotten the 'We never heard of that' line. When people exhaust the 'proper' channels, there is nothing wrong with taking it to the next level. At a minimum, those 'corporate office' folks need to be aware that their support people are not doing their job.
> 
> Ok, let's talk about this alleged fix. As far as I can tell it is strictly a rumor. If you can show me an official statement from DirecTV that they are working on it, then I will be glad to stop bugging them. But until that happens, this rumor of a fix is just that - a rumor.
> 
> And as far as your 'wanting to understand', obviously you are not having the problem or at least not as often as some of us otherwise you would understand perfectly. *


 Mark I happen to agree with you 100% but just ignore him, he seems to be sticking up for DirecTV like they can do no wrong and it's OK for them to let their customers have to deal with this for over a year, going on two, let alone still saying they never heard of it.... I don't know why he bothers to post to this thread if he doesn't have the problem now and it's only a minor inconvenience when he does. What could his motives be?


----------



## Larus

It looks like I'm joining a large club today!

I've had the problem of the Pay for View and shopping channels getting added back to my "channels you receive" on my 4 Phillips DSR6000s for some time. (Still running 2.5 software version, P3 football access cards, one modified unit, 3 stock, never use the "Favorites List") After unchecking those channels repeatedly on all the receivers only to see them eventually "come back" in "channels you receive", I called DTV support last night. After an hour and a half of waiting, getting shifted to other CSRs, and eventually a "Tivo Specialist", I was told that tonight at 6:30 the "Senior TiVo Specialist" will return my call to "resolve the problem". All of those I spoke to assured me that I was the first person to report the problem and they had never heard of it before. I suggested that DTV must be adding these channels back to "channels you receive" to encourage customers to tune the Pay for View and shopping channels but was advised DTV would never do that.

In preparation for tonight's callback, I decided to visit the DirecTiVo Forum to determine whether this is really only my problem and found this thread!

We will see if I get the call back tonight and what the "Senior TiVo Specialist" at DTV tech support has to say (and whether he says he has never heard of it before and I am the first to report it). I'll report back. Personally I think directv is doing this on purpose to encourage viewing of Pay for View and shopping channels because that's the only channels I see coming back, except for occasional new channels directv has added to their line up.
Larus


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## BrettStah

Larus, that is not the problem people have reported here. You're reporting normal (albeit annoying) behavior. What happens is that new channels are automatically added to your "Channels I Receive" list. This is so that people know the new channel exists, I assume. Well it apears that some channels are removed, and then added back sometime later (due to a new PPV movie, new basebal, basketball, or football season, etc.) and this is considered a new channel at that point. I'd love it if "Channels I Recieve" would remember the fact that I previously had certain channels unchecked, so that when they're added back they'd continue to be unchecked, but that's not the behavior that was programmed. Do non-Tivo receivers do that? 

In any case, that's not the bug that most of us have had, in which all or most channels become "unavailable" and recordings are sometimes missed. A reboot typically clears the problem.


----------



## Larus

BrettStah, 
Why would the shopping channels be considered "new channels" over and over again? They are the same channels they were before they were added back to the "channels you receive"? 
Larus


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by pickrarkerz _
> *I haven't set a favorite channels list for over a year, and still experience the problem (3 times in the past 2 weeks, but not for a few months before that). *


Do you remove channels you don't like, don't subscribe to, or never view (like shopping and/or PPV) from the "channels I receive" ? If so, maybe that is the part of the "key" to the problem. Just stop removing them - or go in and check all and don't set favorites and see if the problem goes away?

Dennis


----------



## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by Larus _
> *BrettStah,
> Why would the shopping channels be considered "new channels" over and over again? They are the same channels they were before they were added back to the "channels you receive"?
> Larus *


 I don't know why they do it, but apparently the reason they come back as new is because, for some length of time, they were removed as a channel. Maybe they have contracts with the shopping channels where the channel is active for X days, and then at the end of the Xth day, assuming the contract is renewed, the channel is removed and then added back. Do they do this on purpose so that we're more likely to see the shopping channels? I don't know. I'm still waiting to hear if other DirecTV receivers act like the DirecTivos do. If they do, then maybe that conspiracy theory is correct. if not, then I seriously doubt that they would do this just because of DirecTivo owners. We make up a miniscule amount of DirecTV customers, and are less likely to probably watch shopping channels.


----------



## lgkahn

>Do you remove channels you don't like, don't subscribe to, or never view (>like shopping and/or PPV) from the "channels I receive" ? If so, maybe >that is the part of the "key" to the problem. Just stop removing them - or >go in and check all and don't set favorites and see if the problem goes> >away?

Dennis


right good response..
tell that to parents.. who want there kids to scroll through shopping channels and porn channels etc. and other innappropriate channels...


----------



## Corey

Just in case someone is keeping track of all this, I thought I would report that I lost my favorite channels list yesterday. Everything was fine on Monday evening when I went to bed but when I turned on my TV on Tuesday evening, my favorite channels list were gone. The All channels and all channels received look OK EXCEPT that the local channels were gone from both of those lists. Unplugging the unit and plugging it again restored the local channels but not the favorites list. That has to be redone manually. If this problem happened to a lot of peole in this same time frame, it might help to narrow down the cause of the problem (IF DrirecTV reads this board).

I have a phillips DRS6000 series 1.


Corey


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by lgkahn _
> *
> right good response..
> tell that to parents.. who want there kids to scroll through shopping channels and porn channels etc. and other innappropriate channels... *


Well, you have a ratings lock on the DTivo so they can't order PPV or watch your porn subscription, right?

I was just SUGGESTING that leaving all the channel in and not selecting favorites MIGHT be a away to prevent the DTivo from losing its stuff. I would rather have to wade through some extra channels than to turn on the TV to find that it had missed shows again.

Of course, having DTV fix it would be the best solution. I wonder if our support was still via Tivo if this would not already be fixed?

Dennis


----------



## BrettStah

I think it would have definitely been fixed by now, if we only had to deal with Tivo.


----------



## pickrarkerz

> _Originally posted by dwynne _
> *Do you remove channels you don't like, don't subscribe to, or never view (like shopping and/or PPV) from the "channels I receive" ? If so, maybe that is the part of the "key" to the problem. Just stop removing them - or go in and check all and don't set favorites and see if the problem goes away?
> 
> Dennis *


I don't do any of that. I reboot and that's it, never reset anything at all. This happens on my 2nd TiVo that I only have 1 season pass on and I really only use it during football season so I can have 4 games buffered. I would have to wake up early on Sunday to reboot it because somehow over the previous week all of the channels except for 2 or 3 had disappeared (no Sunday Ticket left).
I hadn't really noticed it hapenning for a while, but then again football season is over so I don't use it too much. Once Curb Your Enthusiasm restarted, I've been noticing it again (that's the season pass), it's missed recording it 2 times so far this season. Luckily they show it again so I'm able to get it, but it's annoying none the less.


----------



## Mark Lopez

I know this is a long thread, but I just want to mention again that I have tried every combination of not using favorites, using favorites, selecting channels you receive and just leaving them alone. Regardless of what method I use, the problem still happens. And as BlankMan mentioned, if you are not using favorites, you may not be aware that it happened. While not using favorites 'might' stop it from happening on some machines, I would bet that more likely it has just been hiding it.


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## BrettStah

Are we sure that the "Channel Not Available" bug is the same exact bug with the disappearing "Favorite Channels" list?


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *Are we sure that the "Channel Not Available" bug is the same exact bug with the disappearing "Favorite Channels" list? *


 Yep. I have it on good authority that it is a hardware issue at the root of the problem that is only in Series 1 DTiVo's, it was not used in Second Generation units. It gets mixed up and thinks it no longer receives the channel so it gets removed from the Channels I Receive list and that is why you get the "Channel Not Available" message. That is also why it gets removed from the Favorite Channels list, and the Guide Data disappears and then a program may not get recorded if it's not caught in time and the unit rebooted.


----------



## TV addict

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *We got onto the subject of the P4 cards and that I had heard (but I told her I do not know for a fact) that there is a newer P4 cards, but I also told her that it has been reported that the newer P4 card does not solve the problem. At any rate, after she spoke with a supervisor, they are going to send me three new P4 cards and I told her I will try that if nothing else to rule that out. I think I got my P4 cards before 3.1 came out so that would put it in 2002, if my memory serves me correctly.
> *


Did you ever receive the replacement P4 cards?

I have not lost "Channels You Receive" for about 3 weeks. Previously, it was happening to one of my 4 DTiVo's about once per week. So, it might take awhile to verify that a change fixes the problem.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by TV addict _
> *Did you ever receive the replacement P4 cards?
> 
> I have not lost "Channels You Receive" for about 3 weeks. Previously, it was happening to one of my 4 DTiVo's about once per week. So, it might take awhile to verify that a change fixes the problem. *


 Yes I did, but I have not installed them yet. They did not come with instructions like previous replacements did where you pull the old one out, put the new one in, pull it out, put the old one in, pull it out, put the new on in, or something like that. Basically to transfer info from the existing card to the new card. It looks like when I install these new cards I have to call DTV and get them activated like you do when you get a new DTV Receiver. I haven't had the time to do that yet, this isn't going to be a 30 second call to DTV for three units.

This is what the new card looks like (I thought DTV refereed to it as a new P4, but some people are talking about a P5 card, so this may be that. Dunno. Don't have a pic of the old P4 yet, I'll post it with this one when I do.)










_<added>_

This is what the old P4 card looked like for anyone interested:


----------



## steve457

I'm experiencing something similar with my Sony SAT-T60. Twice now in the past couple of weeks, I'd go to turn it on, and notice that most of the channels appeared with the "Channel not Available" bar. This obviously caused many scheduled recordings to be missed. I'd still receive a couple of random channels, ie: 511, 518, .. but there would be huge gaps where channels used to be. Also, both times all local channels were competely missing.

I do not have any favorite channels, and have every channel selected in the channels I receive list. Rebooting the system causes the channels to come back, but is definitely annoying.


----------



## Deven

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> Yes I did, but I have not installed them yet. They did not come with instructions like previous replacements did where you pull the old one out, put the new one in, pull it out, put the old one in, pull it out, put the new on in, or something like that. Basically to transfer info from the existing card to the new card. It looks like when I install these new cards I have to call DTV and get them activated like you do when you get a new DTV Receiver. I haven't had the time to do that yet, this isn't going to be a 30 second call to DTV for three units.


Maybe they just figured you were a savvy enough user that you didn't need instructions? Odds are that the replacement procedure is the usual -- pull the old card, put in the new one, then the TiVo prompts you to swap them twice more and you're done. Have you tried? It'll probably just work. And if it doesn't, then the old access card should continue to work, so there's probably little risk in trying it, no?


> This is what the new card looks like (I thought DTV refereed to it as a new P4, but some people are talking about a P5 card, so this may be that. Dunno. Don't have a pic of the old P4 yet, I'll post it with this one when I do.)


I've seen it described as a "new P4" also, and that makes sense. The encryption system and intended mode of operation is probably the same as the original P4 card, so I doubt it would be considered a "P5" card. Also, the description I saw on the other forum mentioned a silver edge, so now we know we know what that looks like.

I'm surprised you haven't tried installing the replacement P4 cards yet. I have the old P4 cards, which are light blue with darker blue arrows (no silver edge), and the text reads "Access Card: 4" on it. If necessary, I suppose I could post a photo, but I'm too lazy to bother at the moment.  I would really be interested to find out if this problem can occur with the second-generation silver-edge P4 card you now have -- I don't know whether to lobby DirecTV for replacement cards or not...


----------



## BlankMan

Nope. I need step by step instructions and someone to hold my hand.  I was just going to try it before I called but the old round tuit. I'm in no really hurry because I beleive it's already been reported that this new card is not a fix it still happens. 

And after the cause of this problem was explained to me with no mention that a card will fix it I have my doubts. I would think that if it were as simple as that they'd be rolling out these cards left and right to reduce the flack.


----------



## BlankMan

Well I was curious now and as I suspected I cannot replaced the cards, when I try I get a message "Your card is not authorized for replacement".

Why I initially suspected this (but forgot) was because the paperwork did not say "This Card" replaces "This Card". So I figured they were virgin cards and I would have insert them and call DTV and give them the receiver ID and the card ID so they could zap it into life. I definitely don't feel like doing that now.


----------



## TV addict

Blankman - I am not trying to argue with you. I just want to make sure we don't make some incorrect assumptions.



> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *I'm in no really hurry because I beleive it's already been reported that this new card is not a fix it still happens. *


The only report that it still happens that I have seen is:



> _Originally posted by thefisherman _
> *i called direct tv four times. they did send me an access card. trust me when i say it does not fix the problem. can someone get a link of this thread to someone at directtv that will actually read it? *


Has it been confirmed that thefisherman received a "new" P4 card, and not another "old" P4 card? You have posted pictures of the "new" P4 card. Can thefisherman confirm that it looks like your posted picture? Did the replacement card look different than his original card? Has onyone else report that they still lost "Channels You Receive" with "New" P4 cards?



> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *And after the cause of this problem was explained to me with no mention that a card will fix it I have my doubts. *


I have not seen a post of the cause of the problem as explained to you. Did you post the cause as explained to you?


----------



## Deven

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> Nope. I need step by step instructions and someone to hold my hand.  I was just going to try it before I called but the old round tuit. I'm in no really hurry because I beleive it's already been reported that this new card is not a fix it still happens.


Where has this been reported? Everyone I've heard talking about a "new" P4 card not fixing the problem (including you) seems to have actually been talking about the "old" P4 card, not realizing there was more than one version of the P4 card. I've seen someone claim specifically that the silver-edged P4 card *does* fix the problem. I haven't seen anyone confirm that it doesn't. Has anyone reported that it doesn't work *and* confirmed that they have the "new" silver-edged P4 card? I haven't see it, if so. Still seems like it's worth a try. You should be able to replace all 3 cards in about 2 minutes -- and if it really doesn't fix the problem, you'll be able to confirm that next time it happens. Who knows? Maybe it _does_ fix the problem...


----------



## Deven

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> Well I was curious now and as I suspected I cannot replaced the cards, when I try I get a message "Your card is not authorized for replacement".
> 
> Why I initially suspected this (but forgot) was because the paperwork did not say "This Card" replaces "This Card". So I figured they were virgin cards and I would have insert them and call DTV and give them the receiver ID and the card ID so they could zap it into life. I definitely don't feel like doing that now.


Oh well, it was worth trying it. So why don't you call DirecTV already? Surely any front-line person could handle the call? Annoying that they didn't send you cards that would just work, but maybe they were afraid you'd sell them to someone. Yes, calling DirecTV is a nuisance, but after the number of hours you've invested in this issue, what's one more phone call?

If you're not motivated to do it for yourself, do it for the rest of us. You've reported this problem recurring frequently on your machines. You have replacement P4 cards which have been claimed to fix the problem. You can test it and report back to the rest of us, so we know whether to harass DirecTV for new P4 cards. If it doesn't work, you'll probably know in a few weeks, and nobody has to waste their time pursuing a dead end. It's been said to work; isn't it worth testing?


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Deven _
> *Where has this been reported? Everyone I've heard talking about a "new" P4 card not fixing the problem (including you) seems to have actually been talking about the "old" P4 card, not realizing there was more than one version of the P4 card. *


 Ask _cramer_:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1768536#post1768536


> _Originally posted by Deven _
> *I've seen someone claim specifically that the silver-edged P4 card *does* fix the problem. *


Where?

And as I said here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1794275#post1794275

I was not told the the "new" P4 card would fix it, if the fix was that simple, which it was explained to me that it is not, I think I would have been informed of that.


> _Originally posted by Deven _
> *If you're not motivated to do it for yourself, do it for the rest of us. You've reported this problem recurring frequently on your machines. You have replacement P4 cards which have been claimed to fix the problem. You can test it and report back to the rest of us, so we know whether to harass DirecTV for new P4 cards. If it doesn't work, you'll probably know in a few weeks, and nobody has to waste their time pursuing a dead end. It's been said to work; isn't it worth testing? *


 Who are you to tell me that I _should_ do this, when sources that are intimately involved in getting the problem solved have not? But you make a semi good point on whether we should continue to contact DirecTV, but as I've said before, I was told that DirecTV and TiVo are taking this problem very seriously and trying to correct it. As long as they continue that endeavor, I doubt us _"harassing"_ will speed up the fix and the rollout to get it to us. It's probably months away at best.

But, just to put his matter to bed I have called DirecTV and replaced all three cards.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> * So I figured they were virgin cards and I would have insert them and call DTV and give them the receiver ID and the card ID so they could zap it into life. I definitely don't feel like doing that now. *


 Oh by the way, I was almost right on with this, I had to give them the old card ID and the new card ID, I guess from the old card ID they figured out which receiver it was.


----------



## cvarner

CRAP! I just got hit again. Twice in 2 days. And for the first time, several seemingly random channels disappeared from the "Channels you receive" list. Seems to be locals and premium channels for the most part. This is the first time my channels you receive list has been corrupted. Normally I only lose the favorites list. It looks like some progress has been made here towards getting DTV to troubleshoot the issue since I visited about 2 months ago. Hopefully it will continue to progress.


----------



## BlankMan

I added a pic of what the old P4 card looked like in this post if anyone is interested.


----------



## Deven

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> Ask _cramer_:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1768536#post1768536


He said: "As others have indicated, the new P4's don't fix the problem. I've had the same P4 card in this tivo since 8/2002 (there abouts) and it never malfunctioned until 12/2003." He must be referring to an *old* P4 card (like mine) if he's had it sine 8/2002, since the *new* P4 card has supposedly only been out for a few months now. So this report doesn't contradict the information I saw.


> Where?


I'll respond to this at the bottom of my message.


> And as I said here:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1794275#post1794275
> 
> I was not told the the "new" P4 card would fix it, if the fix was that simple, which it was explained to me that it is not, I think I would have been informed of that.


What if the fix turns out to be that simple, but this information just isn't widely known? Maybe the guy explaining the problem to you didn't know that the new P4 card could help. Or maybe the new P4 card _doesn't_ help, but we don't have _any_ reports of this happening yet with the new P4 card.


> Who are you to tell me that I _should_ do this, when sources that are intimately involved in getting the problem solved have not?


I don't recall ever saying that you _should_ do anything. I _requested_ that you test the new P4 cards, based on the information I had read, just in case it might help. After all, they sent you the cards, so it didn't represent much of a hardship to you to install them. Given the lengths you've gone through to get DirecTV's attention, I thought you'd jump at any possible solution, even a long shot. Since you've evidently been experiencing the problem more often than most of us, you would be more likely to discover quickly if it _doesn't_ work. And if it _does_ work, I would imagine you'd want to benefit from the workaround.


> But you make a semi good point on whether we should continue to contact DirecTV, but as I've said before, I was told that DirecTV and TiVo are taking this problem very seriously and trying to correct it. As long as they continue that endeavor, I doubt us _"harassing"_ will speed up the fix and the rollout to get it to us. It's probably months away at best.


I'm not talking about harassing them to work on the problem -- it sounds like they're (finally) working on it. But it would be good to find out if the new P4 card actually helps or not. Since you had the opportunity to test it and saw the problem frequently, I was hoping you'd be able to tell us if it helps or not. Otherwise, someone else would have to lobby DirecTV for some new P4 cards to see if it seems to help.


> But, just to put his matter to bed I have called DirecTV and replaced all three cards.


Thank you, I appreciate that. I'll be interested to hear if you see the problem again with the new P4 cards. If it happens again, then this is probably bogus information, but I have yet to see any information that actually contradicts it. I certainly hope you'll report back if it happens again with the new P4 cards, so we know to write off that approach. If enough time passes that you think it should have happened again (a couple months maybe? what's the longest gap you've seen?) and it still hasn't happened, that might suggest that the "new P4 fix" may have some validity to it...

As for where I saw this information, it was in a thread on DBSForums.com, where Mark Sutton said:


> Some things I've heard from reliable sources about the "loss of most/all channels bug":
> 
> It affects "Series I" DirecTiVos only.
> It is in, or related to, the code that interfaces to the P4 access cards (because the P4 cards support the activation of DVR features).
> A fix _is_ in the works.
> It is an entirely separate bug, in an entirely separate part of the code, from the bug causing the false "Acquiring Guide Data" banners.


Later in the thread, Dan Collins said:


> ALL DirecTiVos have had their cards swapped by now (it was a requirement for the 3.1 software). The NEW P4s do not exhibit the problem, nor do ALL the old P4s. As Mark notes, I have 3 Series 1 DirecTiVos (all Hughes) that have been running since 9/2001 and I have never seen this problem.


After which someone immediately complained that he's seen the problem with the P4 card, which forced Dan to clarify:


> You are not paying attention to what I am saying...
> 
> There are TWO versions of the P4 - the original version (which almost all DirecTiVos more than 3 months old have) and a new version (the silver edged card) which is now being distributed. The OLD P4 is part of the problem...the NEW P4 is not.


Later in the thread, he also added:


> If they knew for a fact exactly WHICH old style P4s in which Tivos wil act up, they probably would just replace them. But replacing EVERY old style P4 that is in a DirecTiVo is both expensive - both in terms of the cards themselves and the logistical expense of distributing them and communicating instructions to the users.
> 
> You might get new cards from DirecTV, but don't expect any CSR to have ever heard of this issue.


Now, considering that Dan Collins is the forum administrator over there, I'm not so quick to write off this information as invalid, especially since nobody has contradicted it with a report of this problem occuring on a system _verified_ to be using the *new* P4 cards, like the one you posted the image of earlier, with the silver edges.

At this point, what reason do we have to believe this information is false, rather than simply unknown to most people?


----------



## Deven

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> I added a pic of what the old P4 card looked like in this post if anyone is interested.


Yup, that's exactly what my P4 cards look like too. I knew I had the old P4 cards since they looked nothing like the silver-edge new P4 cards you posted the image of...


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## BlankMan

I tend to now agree, that thread offers some hope, but if that will fix it I do not understand why DirecTV wasn't being proactive and sending these cards to the people that called it in instead of telling them _ I never heard of that problem_.

When I discussed this on my call the answer I got is that DirecTV has five call centers and people are getting involved that do not know the complete story, the caller attributed the person offering to send me the "New" P4 cards was one of those.


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## Deven

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> I tend to now agree, that thread offers some hope, but if that will fix it I do not understand why DirecTV wasn't being proactive and sending these cards to the people that called it in instead of telling them _ I never heard of that problem_.


Could be poor internal communication. Maybe they weren't sure it would fix the problem. Maybe they wanted to avoid the expense. Maybe they hoped the problem would just magically go away (or the complaints would). Who knows? Maybe they just hadn't gotten around to it yet. Or maybe it doesn't fix the problem, but the people on that thread seem to think it does...


> When I discussed this on my call the answer I got is that DirecTV has five call centers and people are getting involved that do not know the complete story, the caller attributed the person offering to send me the "New" P4 cards was one of those.


It's really hard to know at this point what's going on. I guess we'll just have to wait a while and see if you see the problem again on the new P4 cards, or until they have an official fix out for the bug...

By the way, what were the details of the explanation you were given regarding this bug? Did it involve communicating with the access card at all?


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Deven _
> *By the way, what were the details of the explanation you were given regarding this bug? *


 Part of what was said was not to say too much and to paraphrase.


> _Originally posted by Deven _
> *Could be poor internal communication. *


 Doh? Ya think?


----------



## ByronTodd

Please tell us that the new P4 cards fixed the problem!

I've had this problem for months on my unmodified SATT60 and had been living with it by not touching the Channels I Receive list nor the Favorite Channels list.

Have any of your DTivos blanked yet, BlankMan?


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## cvarner

I made another call tonight to DTV about this issue. Front-line support denied having any prior knowledge of the issue (as usual). The TiVo "specialist" I spoke with also denied any knowledge of the issue, but she will be sending my information to an engineer to look into it. I'm sure they'll be calling me back any day with the fix. Yeah, right. I asked her to send me a new P4 card because that has been suggested by others in her office, and she claimed that all P4 cards are the same, and since I already have one, a new one won't help. But here's an interesting thing: She found an issue in her database with favorites disappearing on 3 models of non-TiVo Hughes receivers. She said they have a new software release going out 3/20/04 to fix that issue. Maybe there's a slim chance it's related to our issue and progress is finally being made here. I guess time will tell.


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## BlankMan

I've only had the new P4 cards in a few days, I can go weeks sometimes without the problem, so if I go a couple months without it I might consider that the new P4 cards have done something.


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## super dave

I just finished reading this novel of a post, out of curiosity, since I haven't used the favorites option on my Rxs. Last month I was watching live TV(sports) and BAM, picture gone, message was acquiring data please wait. Then the only thing I got out of that was guide and programming are unavailable, you can watch anything from your list, but live TV is not available. I hit my guide button and the only channels I had were LMN and all of the music channels. This was 8:30PM on a Thursday. I did a system restart and everything came back, and I posted this somewhere at the time. Not sure if it's tied in with what you guys are going through, but sometimes any info is better than no info. Don't have the new cards either, have the old P4s.


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## BlankMan

_super dave_ I think you just had happen to you what happened to me a little over a week ago, as I described here in this post, it is part of this problem.

Well, I can unequivocally state the the new silver edged P4 card does NOT correct this channel loss problem. I've gotten in the habit of checking all my T60's in the morning which I did this morning, all three had their Favorite Channels list intact. This evening I went to watch TiVo3 and pulled up the Favorite Channels list and once again the list was completely empty, all the channels were gone. I looked at the Channels I Receive list and all seem to be there, all are checked, including channels I had un-checked, and the unit has/was not rebooted.

So the "New" P4 card is *NOT* a fix for this problem. Well that didn't take long...

_<Added>_

And once again it missed recording programs. It missed Cops at 7:30 CST and it's not even in the To Do History List with an explaination as to why. It picked up the Cops at 7:00 CST but not at 7:30.


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## ByronTodd

Ah well. That just sucks. I was "looking forward" to that telephone call to DirecTV customer service requesting new P4 cards (*sarcasm*)....

The way that DirecTV is ignoring this problem, I have to believe that they are trying to get customers to purchase the Series 2 unit as a *fix*.


----------



## Deven

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> Well, I can unequivocally state the the new silver edged P4 card does NOT correct this channel loss problem. I've gotten in the habit of checking all my T60's in the morning which I did this morning, all three had their Favorite Channels list intact. This evening I went to watch TiVo3 and pulled up the Favorite Channels list and once again the list was completely empty, all the channels were gone. I looked at the Channels I Receive list and all seem to be there, all are checked, including channels I had un-checked, and the unit has/was not rebooted.
> 
> So the "New" P4 card is *NOT* a fix for this problem. Well that didn't take long...


That's too bad. Well, thanks for checking it out! At least now we know it's a complete waste of time for anyone to pursue getting new P4 cards as a possible solution to this problem. If anyone here also has an account on dbsforums, passing this information along might be helpful...


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## TonyD79

Okay, since I rebuilt the guide data (not the To Do list, but the option to "Clear Program Data & To Do List) about a week ago, I have not had a single problem.

I still haven't heard if anyone has tried this. And, no, I don't think it is a permanent solution, but some of you are getting hit quite often with this bug.

This, of course, wipes out your wishlists and SPs but my Tivo had become pretty much useless when I resorted to this.

Just keeping you informed on my little experiment....


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## BrettStah

Someone has completely wiped out and reset their Tivos, to no avail.


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## Smiles

> _Originally posted by ByronTodd _
> *The way that DirecTV is ignoring this problem, I have to believe that they are trying to get customers to purchase the Series 2 unit as a *fix*. *


Too bad my experience with the series 2 is just as bad. Dead/dying/malfunctioning TiVos are just as bad as ones that keep losing their channel info. (Three HDVR2 failures in four units within five months.)


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by TonyD79 _
> *Okay, since I rebuilt the guide data (not the To Do list, but the option to "Clear Program Data & To Do List) about a week ago, I have not had a single problem.
> 
> I still haven't heard if anyone has tried this. And, no, I don't think it is a permanent solution, but some of you are getting hit quite often with this bug.
> *


It won't fix it. I tried and posted the results a few times in this thread (it's listed in the original post too).


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## bcushman

I am a LONG TIME Tivo user. I left on vacation last Thursday - I returned today (Tuesday) to find all my channels gone, my ToDo list gone, my season pass list gone - none of the programs that I had set to record while I was away were recorded. I am one unhappy camper. I had to restart the machine and then add my favorite channels. When I tried to set up a new season pass for programs that had previously been on the list, it came back asking if Iwanted to record this program also but of course there was nothing showing on the To Do list. Altho I have been getting the "acquiring signal" message for weeks, I have always had a 15 days listing of data. Now, it is no more than 2. I AM NOT HAPPY.


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## stevel

Then please call DirecTV and let them know you are NOT HAPPY.


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## bcushman

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Then please call DirecTV and let them know you are NOT HAPPY. *


I called DirecTV this afternoon when I first found the problem - I was told by the CSR that she was not aware of the problem. I insisted on talking to a higher level - he said to do what I had already done, and said he would make a note of the problem. After checking the forum I then called back and went through the same thing, even giving the "high" level rep the address of this forum. After being put on hold for over 5 minutes I was told they were looking into a resolution of the situation.

I have had a TiVo since they first came out - I have had this DirecTivO since 2001. I have never had a problem until now and didn't even pay attention to this thread until today. The fact that this is an ongoing problem which obviously has not been fixed does not make me any happier. So... I called DirecTV and am still NOT HAPPY!


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## chamelea

Wow! I read the first few pages of this thread, dated July last year, then jumped to "last page" and it's still a problem??

I just subscribed in October '03, and have been frustrated. Though I don't subscribe to HBO, so I was getting hours of blank screens saved as TiVO suggestions. Seems to me that TiVO should know better !????

I just learned about the "Channels I rec'v" list a month ago. A great find, since now I can avoid having HBO recorded ... until couple nights ago, my "receive list" got blanked out. Strangely, my Season Passes survive, but the channel list dies. 

Doesn't seem like rocket science that they should be stored in the same protected partition - does it?


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## CharlieB

Over the past year or so, I've had the favorites list disappear maybe 4 or 5 times. Last night I was doing something in the kitchen while the DTiVo was on live TV. When suddenly there was no sound from the TV, I looked and saw the DTiVo was "getting satellite info". Once it stopped and went to the screen where you're presented with the choice to try again, etc., I restarted the receiver, cursing that I would have to rebuild my favorites list. When it finally came back to life I was surprised to find that the favorites list was intact, but BOTH tuners were tuned to the channel it had been on before the malfunction. Is this a new variation on the problem, or was I just lucky to have not lost the favorites this time?


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## stevel

Charlie, that's a separate problem that some of us have seen. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125181


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## BlankMan

No, I think Charlie's problem is this problem I had that happen also, as I described here in this post.


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## CharlieB

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Charlie, that's a separate problem that some of us have seen. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125181 *


Steve, I don't think it's that. I've always been able to restore normal function by just restarting the receiver. I've never had to resort to disconnecting the dish leads to get past that "28%" problem.


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## gtwrek

I think I may have just hit this problem too on my unmodified Series 1 Hughes.

Came home last night to notice none of my recordings had happened from about Sunday morning on. I was able to surf - so it appeared "Channels I Receive" was ok, but nothing was recording. Reboot seemed to fix things.

I never mess with "Channels I Receive", nor "Favorites". Have no use for favorites - don't watch live tv. For Channels I Receive, I got tired of going in and removing channels that Direct TV kept on adding back. So, I gave up, and let it populate all channels.

I have a question however. In my Todo List history, it shows my programs as not recorded because of an "Internal Error 4". Searching through this site, I see some references to this message, but it wasn't clear if that's what people were seeing with the problem in this thread. Does anyone else see this for the bug in this thread? If I decide to call up and tackle the DirectTV support hell, having an explicit error message like this might help... (or not, from the responses seen in this thread!)

Here I've been checking this thread about once a week for months on end, just chalking up to coincidence that I've never been hit...


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## BlankMan

_gtwrek_, what I've seen in the history when a program doesn't record due to this problem is _program not recorded because it no longer exists in the guide data_, because when the channel disappears so does the Guide Data for the channel. I am not familiar with the Internal Error 4 myself.

On another note, my TiVo2 unit was hit again yesterday 3/29, I noticed it in the morning when it had only one channel left in the Favorites List. I rebooted it then and when it came back up even that channel was gone. Since I wasn't around much Sunday it could have happened anytime from noon Sunday to Monday morning.


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## stevel

Happened to me again sometime since yesterday - lost all the "Channels You Receive" and locals did not appear in the channel list - had to reboot to fix it.


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## TonyD79

I saw Error #4 when my guide data got really, really bad. It no longer knows what programs are on for indexing (SPs, wishlists, searches) even if they show up in the guide.

After Error #4, that is when I deleted by SPs, wishlists and guide data (I know not a permanent fix, but working for a week from that basically boat anchor mode that gtwrek seems to be describing).


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## gtwrek

Hmm, not sure what to make of it. I guess it was similar to Boat Anchor mode - no recording at all (didn't really look at the live buffer). I was just looking at the fact that my episodes were not recording. 

A reboot cleared everything up, however. No deleting SPs/etc, as TonyD seemed to need to do.

This Tivo does have a big list of SPs/wishlists - especially for a stock unit. It's got around 50, with some overlapping - i.e. a wishlist also happening to match a SP. So, the Tivo must be very busy with it's scheduling. Any messing with the SP priority takes about 20 minutes of "please wait...".

Sounds like this was different from this Channel Favorites thing, although I'm not sure...


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## jaymerkramer3

I have had my t-60 since october 2000 and it has done this for the first time since i've owned it last night. I had to do a reset to get my guide data back and have to reset all my favorites. In the information screen it says my guide data is only up to Saturday the 3, but I can go 2 weeks up when I look in the guide. I checked the other 2 units in the house one is a dsr 6000 and one is a dsr 7000, and they were both ok. Strange problem.


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## Dirac

Well, you win, DirecTV. I deactivated my Sony SAT-T60 and activated a new Samsung SIR-S4040R last night.


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## tivoreno

I am curious to know if anyone has tried to cancel their service due to this issue? I wonder if customer retention would replace the "defective" unit(s) in order to keep us as a customer.


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## Dirac

Honestly, I'm pretty confident I'll get at least $106.99 for it on eBay, and hopefully I'll get at least what I paid for it (remember FFDVR?). However, you do raise an interesting question. Might be hard to get CR support for an issue they don't ever seem to even acknowledge.


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## khark

It happened to one of my Tivos again yesterday and caused me to miss several shows last night. :down:


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## PJO1966

mine got hit again... a couple programs didn't record. Luckily it was stuff that repeats constantly.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by Dirac _
> *Well, you win, DirecTV. I deactivated my Sony SAT-T60 and activated a new Samsung SIR-S4040R last night. *


That is what I was going to do (about 10 pages back in this thread). However, I have not been happy with the speed of my HDVR2. The Now Playing list is painfully slow compared to my series 1 units. I was waiting for the 'acquiring guide data' fix on the series 2 to see if that would help and it didn't. It's an unhacked unit with very few shows recorded and only 3 or 4 season passes. So for now I will will just deal with this channel loss issue and hope they eventually fix it.

FWIW, my one unit always looses the favorites on Sat night. Not every Sat, but it is always on a Saturday that it gets hit. My other one surprisingly has not lost them in several months (after a period of having it hit almost weekly). No idea why the one has started to behave.


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## BlankMan

I agree, walking through any menu on an HDVR2 is painfully slow, you can press the buttons faster then it can react even when not really pressing them that fast. Mark, I think someone pointed that out to you when you were going to throw in the towel. 

In the past, one of DTV's ploys to correct this problem was to tell you the unit was broke and should be replaced with an HDVR2, oh and by the way, that'll cost you $99. I know this first hand, they tried it with me, defective to the point of needing to be replaced, my arse.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> * My other one surprisingly has not lost them in several months (after a period of having it hit almost weekly). No idea why the one has started to behave. *


HFC! DirecTV must be monitoring this board or something. I came home and the unit that I just said has been 'behaving' got hit.  <sigh>


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## BlankMan

Ditto. It just happened again to TWO of my units, TiVo1 and TiVo3. TiVo3 while I was watching it. All three were fine this morning, Favorite Channels list wise, and again this evening, like I said, I have gotten into the habit of checking daily so I know when it occurs. I don't know exactly when TiVo1 got hit but TiVo3 acted up at 20:09 CDT, that means I lost Forensics Files for sure. And this is just a cosmetic problem as so many have tried to pawn it off as, yeah right. All of a sudden it pops up the orange "Satellite Info" screen and says: 


> Sorry, the Recorder must re-acquire information from the satellite. As soon as the Recorder is done, you will be able to watch Live TV again. Meanwhile, you can press the TiVo button to watch the Now playing List programs.


It then times out and gives me the orange "Satellite Info Error" screen asking if it should try again. I tell it to and it times out again. And again. And again. And the Favorite Channels list is empty once again in TiVo1 and TiVo3 only has the NASA (376) channel left. (Now don't anybody get the idea this was a reception issue due to dish or weather, the other three units were receiving just fine.)

I let it sit while I documented this and sent off an email regarding it to DirecTV. In the process of doing that I had left the TV on TiVo3 and all of a sudden (~39 minutes after it went brain dead) I heard sound from a program and went and checked on it and sure enough it recovered to the point where it was once again receiving. That is when I discovered that NASA was the only channel left in the Favorite Channels list. I did not reboot TiVo3 (yet) and it did not reboot itself, uptime is currently >29 days.

So, my bet is that this is what happens normally, except usually no one has been watching it when these anomalies occur. This is the second time I saw it happen now, and someone else reported this within the last few weeks also.

_<correction>
39 minutes not 29 as I had originally posted._


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## parzec

Ditto


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## Smiles

I lost my favorites the other day, and once again, it was not long after I had a power outage (resulting in a loss of signal because my multiswitch is not on a UPS).

Sure, it could be coincidental ... but this is the third or fourth time I've lost my favorites within a day or so of having lost my satellite signal.


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## handiq

I normally don't post I just read, but I am now suffering the same problems as the rest of you. I was hoping to find it a upgrade issue but now I see it is not! I hope DTV gets its act together or I will be forced to go by by.

handiq


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## BlankMan

Smiles I think it is coincidental, all my TiVo's and my multiswitch are on a UPS and it continually happens to me.


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## cvarner

Same here. My receiver and multiswitch are also connected to UPS's and this has been a recurring issue with me.


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## Smiles

But that doesn't mean you haven't lost some part of your signal for another reason.

It took me a number of episodes before I noticed the coincidence, but since then, I don't think I've ever lost my favorites _without_ having lost my signal within the previous 24-48 hours.

I can only report my experiences.


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## bullitt

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Smiles I think it is coincidental, all my TiVo's and my multiswitch are on a UPS and it continually happens to me. *


I got hit on Sunday 4/4 for no apparent reason again, no favorites. This is a major PITA.


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## wraith1

I've experienced the same problems as the rest of you. I don't use Favorites...but I do notice when a program that I have specifically set to record, fails to record. Invariably, the failure is due to the loss of the channel from the channel guide. I typically lose my local channels when this phenomenon hits. I have Sony and Hughes DTivos. Like you, I have called DTV and I have gotten the same placating mumbo jumbo.

The last time it happened, I called a friend of mine who works for Hughes. I asked him to check into the issue and see if he could learn anything new. He called me back today. He said the issue is related to DTV's use of ECM signals. 

I frankly doubted the accuracy of his diagnosis...at least initially. It was my understanding that DTV only ECM'd boxes a few times a year to spoil pirates' viewing of the SuperBowl, for instance. He disabused me of that notion. Evidently, DTV blasts pirates on a pretty frequent (but irregular) basis. These ECM blasts will predictably fry a small percentage of legitimate cards. I knew that. What I did not know is that an ECM can, and sometimes will, disrupt the box's programming too.

According to my friend, this is the most probable explanation, both for the issue itself and for DTV's reluctance to embrace the issue. It would explain, too, why DTV offered to exchange cards. The fact that the new cards don't render complete immunity to the continuing ECMs, is probably a function of the boxes themselves as well as their internal programming.

Since DTV blasts our units via satellite, disconnecting the telephone line will not reduce our vulnerability. Newer boxes may well offer better protection; or so my friend tells me. But that seems like a pretty cynical approach to marketing, doesn't it?

Anyhow, until I hear a better explanation (or, better yet, get a permanent repair), I'm going to assume that this is why we have 34 pages, and counting, dedicated to this problem.


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## Larus

What is an "ECM signal"?
Larus


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## stevel

"Electronic Counter Measure" - in other words, an attempt to disable boxes of those stealing service.

I severely doubt that this is the case here, but one never knows...


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## TonyD79

This morning, my T-60 was okay but had rebooted sometime during the night. No power hit, no indication that anything was changed. I am assuming something came down on the call that was scheduled for last night and I got an auto-reboot but I don't see anything different.

Anyone else?


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## Smiles

> _Originally posted by Smiles _
> *It took me a number of episodes before I noticed the coincidence, but since then, I don't think I've ever lost my favorites without having lost my signal within the previous 24-48 hours. *


I know everyone's going to tell me it's not related, but yesterday afternoon I had a one-second power hit (multiswitches went out, TiVos are on UPSes). Today, my Favorites were gone and CYR were all reset (so I had national network feeds turned on) on my Philips.

What's funny is that as I was sitting on my couch resetting the channels I thought to myself, "Wow, this is the first time I can think of where I didn't have a signal loss prior to this problem." Then I remembered sitting in the office yesterday when I took the hit.

Your mileage may vary, but mine doesn't seem to.


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## BlankMan

Smiles, why don't you put your multiswitch on an UPS then? It can't take much power, my Spaun doesn't, so I'd bet you could put it on the same UPS as the DTivo(s) and save yourself the frustration.


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## Smiles

Because my multiswitches are in my basement, nowhere near any of my many other UPSes.

But the point is that in my case, I have a strong relationship between losing my satellite signal and then losing my Favorites or CYR. Maybe others do as well.


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## Markman07

I have never had this problem many were reporting. I noticed this sticky thread and started to read it the other night. I was considering myself lucky because I have never had this issue with either of my two DSR6000s. Well low and behold the next night I notice most of my channels are gone except for the music channels and a few other ones on my unmodified unit! UUUUUUGGGGGGGG


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## BlankMan

Welcome to the not-so-elite club.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by wraith1 _
> *The last time it happened, I called a friend of mine who works for Hughes. I asked him to check into the issue and see if he could learn anything new. He called me back today. He said the issue is related to DTV's use of ECM signals.
> *


While I doubt that is the cause, it is possible. Now that the HU stream shutdown has officially started, it will be interesting to see if the problem goes away. The next few weeks should tell. It may be wishful thinking, but perhaps that's why DirecTV has been brushing this under the rug, knowing it would be resolved once the HU was dead.


----------



## PJO1966

I was on the phone with a CSR about another matter when I mentioned the problems with the TiVo losing channels. He was from the retention dep't and had no knowledge of it. He asked what had been done so far and I listed everything mentioned in this thread. he put me on hold while he consulted with his "gurus". He came back and offered to replace my TiVo with a reconditioned one. I explained this wasn't an option because I have too much stuff on it (with 160 hrs of storage) and I had already pre-ordered the HD TiVo. That was that. I just wanted to pass that along. Those that are interested in swapping out their TiVo for another may want to suggest that. i don't really think it would make a difference.


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## Markman07

If they want to swap all my Series 1's I might be interested. I do have one modified unit. Not familiar with upgrading s2.


----------



## Dirac

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *Those that are interested in swapping out their TiVo for another may want to suggest that. i don't really think it would make a difference. *


Series 1 DTivos usually sell for well over $99 on eBay. I plan on selling my SAT-T60 and DSR6000, and using the money for new receivers.


----------



## ksquid

I've had the same problem with both my Sony SAT-T60s. I always thought it was DirecTV sending a bullet type signal to clear out illegal users with a bad side effect to others.

I set the Channels I Receive to the ones I "want" to have Guide listed and remove the "junk" channels. However, the Channels I Receive setup has never interfered with the channels I actually get (which includes the junk). When the Channels I Receive setup barfs, it adds the junk channels back into the Guide list as opposed to loosing channels so that shows can't be recorded.

The last maintenance I performed that's worked so far was... completely power down the deck, carefully remove the card, CAREFULLY clean the contacts with an eraser, carefully use CLEAN compressed air to blow dust out of card slot, carefully reinstall card, power up deck, reset Channels I Receive and Favorite Channels. That was a few weeks ago and the problem has not returned since. 

Occasionally DirecTV seems to "add" channels at their discretion which will show up as ones I did not select. They will be an ongoing maintenance at DirecTV's whim. Simply deselect these new channels and they should stay away.

Hope this works,
ksquid


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *mine got hit again... a couple programs didn't record. Luckily it was stuff that repeats constantly. *


I wonder if it is bad data in the DTV stream that is doing this?

My trouble box did it again last week (Wed 4/7 - Thu 4/8) and I missed more shows.

I have been very busy and have not been on the forum for a few weeks - but reading through these notes I see that a lot of the other folks with the same problem ALSO had the problem around the same time.

So it could be some bad data that we all got?

Or (more likely?) DTV sent down some new channels or removed some channels and our boxes saw them around the same time and that triggered the problem?

I WAS rebooting my box once a week to see if that helped - but I had forgotten to do it for a few weeks 

Dennis


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by Smiles _
> *Because my multiswitches are in my basement, nowhere near any of my many other UPSes.
> 
> But the point is that in my case, I have a strong relationship between losing my satellite signal and then losing my Favorites or CYR. Maybe others do as well. *


I don't have a powered switch (other than via the DTivos) and mine DTivos are on UPS units.

If you watch the Sunday paper, Office ____ or Staples is always having cheap deals after rebate on UPS units. A Belkin or APC can be had for as little as $20.

Dennis


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## Fish Man

> _Originally posted by wraith1 _
> *I've experienced the same problems as the rest of you. I don't use Favorites...but I do notice when a program that I have specifically set to record, fails to record. Invariably, the failure is due to the loss of the channel from the channel guide. I typically lose my local channels when this phenomenon hits. I have Sony and Hughes DTivos. Like you, I have called DTV and I have gotten the same placating mumbo jumbo.
> 
> The last time it happened, I called a friend of mine who works for Hughes. I asked him to check into the issue and see if he could learn anything new. He called me back today. He said the issue is related to DTV's use of ECM signals.
> 
> I frankly doubted the accuracy of his diagnosis...at least initially. It was my understanding that DTV only ECM'd boxes a few times a year to spoil pirates' viewing of the SuperBowl, for instance. He disabused me of that notion. Evidently, DTV blasts pirates on a pretty frequent (but irregular) basis. These ECM blasts will predictably fry a small percentage of legitimate cards. I knew that. What I did not know is that an ECM can, and sometimes will, disrupt the box's programming too.
> 
> According to my friend, this is the most probable explanation, both for the issue itself and for DTV's reluctance to embrace the issue. It would explain, too, why DTV offered to exchange cards. The fact that the new cards don't render complete immunity to the continuing ECMs, is probably a function of the boxes themselves as well as their internal programming.
> 
> Since DTV blasts our units via satellite, disconnecting the telephone line will not reduce our vulnerability. Newer boxes may well offer better protection; or so my friend tells me. But that seems like a pretty cynical approach to marketing, doesn't it?
> 
> Anyhow, until I hear a better explanation (or, better yet, get a permanent repair), I'm going to assume that this is why we have 34 pages, and counting, dedicated to this problem. *


I believe that your theory has merit. I've suspected essentially the same thing for some time now.

The problem you describe only affects the "Series I" boxes. From their introduction, there has been evidence that the interface to the access card on the "Series I" boxes is a little flaky.

For example, series I DirecTiVos almost never take a change in programming with the first "hit". Without exception, each time I've ever changed my D* programming (admittedly, only two or three times since becoming a customer), I've used their web site to make the change.

My HDVR2 always shows the change within a minute or so after submitting the change to the web site. At least one of my two GXCEBOTD's, invariably doesn't take the new instructions, forcing me to call DirecTV and ask them to "hit" that particular unit again. Sometimes two or three additional "hits" are necessary. This is evidence of a flaky interface to the access card.

I have experienced the "loss of many/most channels" bug a total of 3 times. Once on one of my GXCEBOTD's and twice on the other.

A few weeks ago, I experienced another interesting bug, which my "programmers intuition" suggests is related, and some discussion of this bug appears in this thread.

I sat down to watch something on one of my GXCEBOTD's and found that both tuners were on the same channel (BBC America, for whatever that's worth) and both were displaying a blank screen with the "Channel Not Available" banner at the bottom. I put up the grid guide and no channels appeared to be missing from it, my "channels I receive" list was correctly checked/unchecked.

I also observed that several recordings had been missed. The reason given in the recording history was "someone in your household modified the season pass" which was untrue.

So, I selected another channel from the grid guide. After a very very long delay (like 90 seconds it successfully tuned to that channel. I then checked the other tuner, it still "said" it was on BBCA, and showed a black screen with the "Channel not available" banner. So, with the "black screen" tuner selected, I tried to change the channel on that tuner. I got the channel I selected, but it used the "healthy" tuner to do it!, that is, if flipped off the "black screen" tuner and to the tuner that was working!

Several attempts repeated this result (and BTW, the "healthy" tuner could tune to BBCA successfully).

Finally, I hit upon an idea: while watching the "healthy" tuner, I selected "record", to lock it on that channel. I flipped to the black-screen tuner and selected another channel. Another 60 - 90 second delay and then BINGO, that tuner was "healthy" again also.

I did some checking and found that a major wave of ECM's had been sent out that day.

An ECM would require a rather major amount of data to flow between the box's on board memory and the smart card. If this interface is "flaky" as I suspect it is, this amount of data flow could easily result in a "glitch" that produces buggy behavior of the box.


----------



## wraith1

Yes....that's pretty fair inferential evidence, Fish Man. It would also explain DTV's willingness to exchange our Series 1 boxes for S-2 receivers. 

Here's my notion. Let's stop spinning our wheels by talking to peons who either don't know or won't say anything useful. Emailing those same peons is an equally pointless exercise in futility. I recommend that we write brief, civil, but pointed (snailmail) letters to one of DTV's executives.

I have found this to be an effective means for overcoming bureaucratic logjams in the past. Here is my choice:

Roxanne S Austin 
Executive Vice President; 
President and Chief Operating Officer of DIRECTV, Inc. at
The DIRECTV Group, Inc.
2250 East Imperial Highway
El Segundo, CA 90245

Phone: 310 964-0700
Phone: 310 964-0808


I list a couple of telephone numbers (above), but nothing is quite as powerful as a concise and specific letter to an individual who has the necessary authority to deal with an issue.

Rick


----------



## ksanders

> _Originally posted by Dirac _
> *Well, you win, DirecTV. I deactivated my Sony SAT-T60 and activated a new Samsung SIR-S4040R last night. *


My SAT-T60 has no issues with the loss of Favorites. However, my Hughes GXCEBOTD all the time. It never fails. I can set my Favorites and the next time I turn on the unit, they are no longer setup. It is very frustrating.

I do not have runs to my new Samsung Series II DTivo yet, so I haven't setup any channels. I plan on putting in runs to it from the multiswitch sometime this week.


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## ksanders

> _Originally posted by Smiles _
> *But the point is that in my case, I have a strong relationship between losing my satellite signal and then losing my Favorites or CYR. Maybe others do as well. *


One would think that losing signal would cause this issue on all DirecTivo units, possibly. I have not had that to be the case here. It only happens on my Hughes box. The Sony SAT-T60 has kept its Favorites for quite some time now.


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## Clark

I keep having my favorites lost on one of my tivos but not the other. I've finally given up hope of it ever working correctly.


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## ksanders

> _Originally posted by Clark _
> *I keep having my favorites lost on one of my tivos but not the other. I've finally given up hope of it ever working correctly. *


Same here. I just deal with it. I need to put in the runs to my new Samsung and see if that one works properly. Hopefully, as someone else mentioned in this thread, this issue will disappear when the HU stream is fully gone.


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## Unregisterable

We were watching live tv Monday night when everything disappeared from our Tivo service - all program guide data, all favorite channels, in fact all channels vanished. Went through the satellite setup process and we were getting 95% signal on both of our inputs, plus our other two non-Tivo directv boxes were working just fine. Attempted to download program info from the satellite several times, but it would always kick out before the data download finished. Called DTV today and they said to reset the unit - pow, it was all back - except my favorites were lost. Is this the bug everyone else here has experienced?


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by Unregisterable _
> *We were watching live tv Monday night when everything disappeared from our Tivo service - all program guide data, all favorite channels, in fact all channels vanished. Went through the satellite setup process and we were getting 95% signal on both of our inputs, plus our other two non-Tivo directv boxes were working just fine. Attempted to download program info from the satellite several times, but it would always kick out before the data download finished. Called DTV today and they said to reset the unit - pow, it was all back - except my favorites were lost. Is this the bug everyone else here has experienced? *


We will forgive you for not reading through all the messages  But yes, that is the problem.

"Losing favorites" is the least of my worries - since as you observed you can lose it all. Several times I have sat down to watch a show that I Tivo'd earlier in the day or a previous day only to find that it failed to record it due to this bug. That is unacceptable - the reason I HAVE a Tivo is so I don't have to be there to watch the show when it airs. In my case it has been stuff w/o repeats that I missed.

Welcome to the "club" 

Dennis


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## aciurczak

D*mn it all to hell. This bit me again, and it didn't record Survivor or any of the other Thursday shows I like. This is really getting old.


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## Markman07

So are we screwed? What are we to do with an issue they won't fix?


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## stevel

Are you people calling DirecTV support and complaining? If all you do is gripe here, it's a certainty nothing will happen. I call every time it happens to me.


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## gregstud

This issue has happened to me a few times. ALMOST always when I'm on vacation and I come back to miss a bunch of programming I set to record when I'm gone.


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## Smiles

> _Originally posted by ksanders _
> *One would think that losing signal would cause this issue on all DirecTivo units, possibly. I have not had that to be the case here. It only happens on my Hughes box. The Sony SAT-T60 has kept its Favorites for quite some time now. *


Heck, you'd think it would happen to both of my Series 1 units simultaneously when I lose signal, since both of them lose it at the same time. But they don't. It could be any combination of things, perhaps losing signal being one component of that.


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## wraith1

Not to repeat myself, but sending snailmail correspondence will do the trick if anything will. Referencing this forum thread (all 35 pages of it) would add credibility. I furnished the name, address and telephone number to one of the exec's at the top of this page. I can virtually assure you that a well crafted letter to Roxanne will produce a positive response. Further telephone calls and email to low-level CSRs and more griping in this forum is unlikely to accomplish anything new at this point. The image of banging one's head against the wall comes to mind.

A letter such as I suggest should be polite, but firm. It should concisely set out both the problem and its scope, describing the various unsuccessful efforts to resolve it. Try to avoid the ultimatum approach. Antagonistic missives containing empty or inconsequential threats rarely provoke more than a curt reply. 

It would not be inappropriate for a copy of the correspondence to be uploaded here.


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## Perrin

I have a SAT T60 and just experienced this bizarre bug for myself yesterday. Its strange, I had this unit for over a year and it never happened until now. I lost nearly all of my channels and it didn't record a bunch of shows on tuesday night. My wife is ticked off and I'm annoyed too  I hate missing 24..
I'm at work so I can't really call a CSR cause they'll ask me to do stuff with the T60 that I can't do remotely.


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## jaydro

I've read the first eight and last eight pages of this thread, and I'm not sure if I'm seeing the same problem with my DSR7000. I first reported this problem in the "problems with 3.1.1c" thread, but today I witnessed the problem "live" and it makes me think it *might* be the problem described here....

As I described before, this past weekend my DSR7000 didn't record programs for a day-and-a-half while I was away. When I had left the unit it was displaying the "Acquiring Program Guide Data" message for the first time since getting the "c" update, and the only other time I've seen that was when the unit was new and when the "b" problem was manifesting itself, though I understand the message can occur under normal circumstances. The recording history showed that Friday evening programs did not record because of internal error: 4 (which seems to mean that no guide data was available for that channel at the time the recording was to occur), while Saturday programs did not record because "power was lost or the unit was unplugged" and there was no power outage. Recording resumed Sunday morning with a program 15 minutes in progress. I had left the unit in standby while away (I normally don't use standby). Other than that, everything seemed normal.

This morning I noticed that my DTiVo wasn't recording a 7:30 am program I was expecting to record. I turned on the TV (DTiVo wasn't in standby), and found it on a channel I had left it on last night and apparently working. I entered the channel number the program I wanted to record was on, and I got a "channel not available" banner at the bottom of the screen. I switched to the other tuner, which was on the channel it had been on last night and working, and I switched it to another channel--"channel not available."

I checked out TDL--it looked like it was stuck at some time prior to 2 am this morning.

I then rebooted.

Everything came back okay, and the recording history showed that overnight programming, including the program that had been on when I began this process, was not recorded because "power was lost" etc. Obviously, again, there was no power outage.

Next time this happens I'll try channel up/down and the "channels you receive" list to see if it's empty or whatever.

Most posts here reference Series 1 DTiVo's--can (ersatz) Series 2 DTiVo's be affected?


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## Markman07

Yes JayDro, as far as I know only Series 1 were having the problem discussed in this thread.


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## Perrin

Uhm quick question...I haven't had to reboot my DirecTIVO (sat t60) before...so uhm how do I do it? Pull the plug? That's how I would reboot my standalone years ago.


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## BrettStah

You could do it that way. You can also go into the Setup menu and reboot with the remote. If you unplug it, wait about 15 seconds or so before plugging it back in.


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## Larry Hutchinson

Basically a "me to", but here is my story.

I've lost my Favorites quite a number of times in the past. But yesterday, I noticed a program had not been recorded and when I checked the todo list, it claimed someone in my household had canceled the season pass (not true.)

Then today, I found the machine could not tune to any channel. Reset by unplugging and, except for Favorites, all was ok.

Series 1.

P.S., My HD TiVo was unaffected -- I assume it is Series 2.


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by jaydro _
> *I've read the first eight and last eight pages of this thread, and I'm not sure if I'm seeing the same problem with my DSR7000. but today I witnessed the problem "live" and it makes me think it *might* be the problem described here....
> *


Yes, this thread is titled "Favorite channels disappear in TiVo Live Guide" but that is just a minor problem (a symptom of the real problem). The real problem is as you describe - the DTivo thinks you no longer get the channels you should so it does not record your shows for you. It does not matter if the shows are on a favorite or any other channel - once the DTivo loses that channel then no more recording. The channels disappear from the "channels I receive" list and if they are ALSO favorites they vanish from that list as well.

In my case looking at the "Tivo 2" to-do list is says "no shows upcoming" and in recording history it says it was not recorded because it was not on. I don't RECALL it telling me it was because someone in the house canceled it.

When this happens "live" while you watch, there are channels you can't tune to (black screen). When you go into "channels I receive" these channels are missing - not there and un-checked, they are gone. If you try to re-do setup (for example) it will not work, if you check signal strength it will be fine. Just do a restart (from the menus) and it will re-find all the channels. You will then have to un-check the ones you do not want and re-select the favorites (if any).

Dennis


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## jaydro

Looking back, Dennis, I see that your "Tivo 2" is a series 1.

If people aren't seeing this with the newer DTiVos, and it isn't accompanied by a TDL that shows upcoming recordings that should have already taken place, and the recording history doesn't blame the problem on a non-existent power outage, then maybe I should start a new thread....


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## BlankMan

Anyone know for sure if the ECM's for the HU cards were really stopped? Because if they were then that was/is not the cause of the problem, my TiVo1 just got hit again, last night it was fine, this morning all the channels in the Favorite Channels List are gone.


----------



## TV addict

One of my 4 DTiVo's lost most of the "channels you receive" last night.

From the end of December to the middle of February this happened about 8 times. This is only the second time this has happened since mid February.

So, it seems to not be as bad lately. I will be gone on vacation soon, so it probably will happen then, so I can't notice it and reboot the DTiVo.


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## callmeox

My 18 month old T-60 has been acting flaky for a few months now, with one major annoyance in the program guide that I see every day. Channel 171 (porn pay-per-view) keeps reappearing in the guide every morning after the service d/l, which I promptly remove each day from the guide. I'm not some radical puritan, but the program descriptions are pretty racy and I don't need that info flowing into my already hopped-up 12 year old son's brain.

I've placed 4 calls in the last month that ended up with me talking to the 'senior' level techs at D* and the tech today was able to reproduce the channel 171 reappearance while I was on hold. The past calls have ended with recommendations ranging from forcing a call to get the software upgrade (thanks...) to replacing my access card and nothing has worked. He said that since he was able to reproduce the error there, he would pass it on to (??) for the lab to look at it. He tried to recommend the normal razzmatazz that I should call the manufacturer about the issue and I stopped him cold with some of the facts that I have learned here on this board.

After reinforcing the fact that I don't want my kid to happen upon this adult material, they offered to overnight a new (refurb?) unit. I took them up on it since I'm honestly only peeved about this because of the subject matter of the channel. We'll see what arrives on Tuesday.


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## Vesper

Had this bug show up again tonight. 3rd time now (all since the Acquiring Program Data "display" bug.) Missed Alias, Sopranos, and Cold Case because of it. THANKS DIRECTV.

Unfortunately, I may have no choice but to buy a Series 2 to "fix" this. It's unfortunate, not fighting the system. But since our complaints are ignored, it kinda looks like I have no other choice.


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## ksanders

> _Originally posted by callmeox _
> *After reinforcing the fact that I don't want my kid to happen upon this adult material, they offered to overnight a new (refurb?) unit. I took them up on it since I'm honestly only peeved about this because of the subject matter of the channel. We'll see what arrives on Tuesday. *


A new unit is not going to fix your problem. I have it happen all the time on all my units. This is just another of many software problems that the DirecTivo units have. They just need to get off their duffs and get the problems fixed.


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## BrettStah

callmeox, remove all unwanted channels from your Channels I Recieve list. Then, go to your Favorite Channels list and add all channels. Then go into your Live TV Guide and configure it to display your Favorite Channels rather than your Received Channels..


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## BlankMan

D*mn! My TiVo1 got hit again overnight after rebooting it and fixing it yesterday. Favorite Channels list is empty, and from the Channels I Receive list all channels below 245 were gone, all Premium Channels except HBOL and most of the music channels were also gone. Could be more missing also but those were the only areas I checked. That's twice in two days. Haven't check my other two units yet because I can't do that remotely.


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## FourDown

Well....

This "losing favorites" happend to me Saturday. First time and I've had this virgin unit for almost three years now.

I looked here first and saw this 37 page rant. After rebooting and redoing my favorites list, I called DirecTV and spoke to a very nice kid who had heard of the problem and had no remedy except for the reboot and redo.

He said that this wasn't a fix, it was just a way to get the machine working again.

He apologized, but we both knew there was nothing he could/would do.

I will not be forced into a Series 2 buy by bad programmers. 

For the sake of other's getting into this thread...isn't there a way to delete the first 30 pages or so to save time?

Good luck to all.... 4D


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## Vesper

> _Originally posted by FourDown _
> *I will not be forced into a Series 2 buy by bad programmers.
> *


I'm a software engineer, so I feel it's my duty to stick up for the Tivo programmers. They aren't at fault. All software has issues come up. It is the duty of the company to provide adequate funding to find said problems before they ship out, and to address them once they are found in the wild. Having a serious bug in the hands of the public for this long is inexcusable, and shows a serious management problem at DirecTV. Please don't blame the hard working tech guys who'd love to have this fixed within 5 seconds of the first person finding it. Unfortunately, it's not up to them to allocate time to fix the bug or release the fix.


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by Vesper _
> *I'm a software engineer, so I feel it's my duty to stick up for the Tivo programmers. They aren't at fault. All software has issues come up. It is the duty of the company to provide adequate funding to find said problems before they ship out, and to address them once they are found in the wild. Having a serious bug in the hands of the public for this long is inexcusable, and shows a serious management problem at DirecTV. *


I would have to agree - I hate having this bug on one of my DTivos, but being in the software biz that hardest thing to do is find and fix a bug that you can't duplicate. If they can get this to happen "in the lab" then the fix is probably not that tough - but it may be hard to do. I have 2 identical DTivos (the 3rd is series 2) and one fails and the other never has this problem.

Now if it IS something like ECMs taking us down, that would make me madder than I already am. Come on DTV, pour some resources into this and give us a fix!

I am back to regular (once a week) reboots of the "bad" box and I DID miss the outage some reported the other day. I try to keep doing that and see if that keeps the missing channel monster at bay until we get a fix.

Dennis


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## gregstud

But the real question is WHO is responsible for the "fixes"...DTV or Tivo? I would guess Tivo is responsible for all Software related programming/problem solving. Granted DTV has authority over selecting new features (like HMO)...but I don't think they do actually fixes, I would guess Tivo is contractually obligated to provide software support in this capacity.


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## cvarner

If I remember correctly from what BlankMan has stated previously in this thread, since DTV took over, DTV has to tell/authorize TiVo to make the fixes to the code. So technically DTV is responsible, but TiVo has to implement the fix. Also, in response to dwynne's comment above, BlankMan has said that DTV and TiVo have been able to recreate the problem in the lab, so it's not an issure that can't be reproduced.


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## dwynne

I think if we were calling and complaining to Tivo directly the problem would already be fixed. DTV probably figured "this stuff is pretty much bug free, let's drop Tivo and take care of it ourselves". I don't know what the financial deal was/is between the two but it can't be in our best interests.

Dennis


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## BlankMan

Answers to some of the questions posed on this page (and thanks cvarner).

It is a hardware issue that they are trying to fix in software. As it was explained to me a particular chip gets confused under just the right circumstances and the end result is that channels get removed. What those exact circumstances are were not explained to me, probably so as to not give out too much information so the source could be traced. DTV is being very tight liped on this and has instructed people at our favorite company not to comment on it. However, it was not said that it was or was not due to ECM's so that possibility exists and could be the cause of the chip getting confused if other variables happen to be in place on that unit just at the right time. That would explain why it does not happened to every unit at the same time. Had the ECM issue come to mind during my last discussion I would have specifically asked about it.

TiVo is responsible for the fixes BUT DTV has to approve them, that Red Tape is part of the problem. 

TiVo has reproduced it in the lab, but just like it happens to us, randomly. So, a number of times they thought they had the fix only to let it sit and run a while to find it happened again.

I have also been told that it is happening to DTV employees (middle management) and based on that fact that DTV is very aware of it.

It also was eluded to me that TiVo being a startup company thus trying to turn a profit, the cash infusion to brand the DirecTV Receiver with TiVo as a DirecTV DVR was very helpful, but they are sympathetic to the poor support we now get based on what we were used to when dealing with TiVo directly.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by FourDown _
> *I called DirecTV and spoke to a very nice kid who had heard of the problem and had no remedy except for the reboot and redo.*


 FourDown, I'm really surprised that you talked to someone that knew about the problem, that is a miracle in itself.

I'd like to hear more from anyone that calls in if this is now happening or just a fluke. Maybe, just maybe, DTV has gotten the information to their front line CSR's and/or told them it is OK to admit this problem exits finally.


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## FourDown

BlankMan... After reading most of this thread, I was also surprised that the guy on the other end of the phone was aware of this issue.

But he was and he even filled in the gaps when I didn't have the right words. 

I think he was genuine in his disappointment that he couldn't really help.

I don't think in my earlier post I meant to be angry at the programmers. But you have to admit, if this was any other software company, this ongoing, disruptive, bug would have been fixed by now. Programmers, middle management, senior management be damned. This is a customer talking and many customers are affected. Fix the problem.


4D


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## BlankMan

Well Sylvia from DirecTV called me last night in response to my two emails depicting this problem on the 2nd and 3rd. She had never heard of the problem (surprise!) but took down a lot of notes and said she was going to bring it to the attention of management. She was sympathetic to the problem and said she had a SAT-T60 but was not experiencing the problem. She mentioned that they had a TiVo Specialties group abut I explained to her that a software patch was needed and there was nothing they could do to fix it over the phone. She didn't sound like she totally understood the how and why of a software patch. I also explained to her I have gone down that path a number of times over the past year, both with someone calling me after they received an email and with the TiVo Specialties group, always to no avail.

She said she will try to find out something regarding this and get back to me within a week even if she has nothing more to add. I've heard that before also (as have others here) so we will see. If nothing else dealing with DirecTV has made me a skeptic, they promise but don't always follow through. She also did say that if this were happening to her she would not be too happy about it either.

I also mentioned this Forum and this thread (as I have many many times in the past), and she wrote down the URL (even though it is in the content of the email I add to and send to them each time) but I doubt anyone will take the time to come here and find this Forum and find this thread. DirecTV probably doesn't allow it. I added that once here to do a search on _Favorite Channels_ figuring that would be an easy way to find this thread (I hope). But based on past performance of DirecTV I doubt they take any of this seriously.


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## FourDown

I called Saturday night about 9:00 Massachusetts time (which is about 4:17 a.m. in the year 1634 judging by the attitude, education, and political leanings here)  

Like I said, I only called that one time and guy was friendly and knew what I was talking about.

Maybe I dialed the wrong number?  


Good Luck


4D


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## pickrarkerz

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *
> I'd like to hear more from anyone that calls in if this is now happening or just a fluke. Maybe, just maybe, DTV has gotten the information to their front line CSR's and/or told them it is OK to admit this problem exits finally. *


I called on Monday about something switching a non-TiVo receiver, and asked the CSR (who had told me she was new and wasn't sure how to switch the receiver) about the disapearing channels. She said that it was a problem and the only fix was to reboot the TiVo. I explained that isn't really a fix, she then said it could be the access card, but I would have to pay $20 to get a new one. I was in a hurry (was on hold 30 minutes before anyone answered), so I said I'd call back when I had more time.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by pickrarkerz _
> * she then said it could be the access card, but I would have to pay $20 to get a new one. I was in a hurry (was on hold 30 minutes before anyone answered), so I said I'd call back when I had more time. *


Don't waste your money, went that route. As one of DirecTV's attempted fixes to correct this problem they sent me three of the lastest access cards, one for each of my T60's, which some people call "New P4's" and some people call "P5's", regardless, the problem still occurs.

There's a picture of them  here.


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## callmeox

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Don't waste your money, went that route. As one of DirecTV's attempted fixes to correct this problem they sent me three of the lastest access cards, one for each of my T60's, which some people call "New P4's" and some people call "P5's", regardless, the problem still occurs.
> 
> There's a picture of them  here. *


Ditto, I went the same route, but for free. The CSR said that changing the card would help me get the software update on my T-60 (grin). I took her up on it only because it was better than doing nothing and it cost me zero. I figure that D* is like Microsoft in that they will stop trying to help you if you don't do as they ask or have the latest stuff.

BTW, they sent me a refurbished replacement unit for my T-60 to try to fix this issue and the 'porn PPV 171 reappearing in the channel guide' issue. It is going back since it is a DSR6000 and has the same software on it.

I'm going to plug it in in another room and let it go for a week. I'm sure that one or another of the same issues will happen in a few days and it will be on its way back.

Ox


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## Psychoderelict

I've been luck as this didn't start happening to my Series 1 until two weeks ago... Why hasn't this been fixed?


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Psychoderelict _
> *I've been luck as this didn't start happening to my Series 1 until two weeks ago... Why hasn't this been fixed? *


 The proverbial $64,000,000 question.


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## Cajonkev

So I must admit I have been so caught up in the HR10-250 threads that I have been out of this one for a while but since one of my DSR6000's had its little "problem" again tonight for the umpteenth time I thought I would check back in.

I see that nothing new has evidently occurred and D* is still avoiding the situation.

Just got off the phone "logging" our latest event.


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## khark

Add me to the list for about the 7th. time. If I wasn't so pleased with the way Tivo works, when they work, I would just give up on them. I just don't know how long Directv can pretend they don't know about the problem.

Maybe the people that suggested a class action lawsuit were right because the product sure doesn't do what it promised in the ads when it loses the program information and misses recording the shows.


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## bstock

I have a Phillips DSR6000, unmodified. It's two years old. I just started having the problem many people have reported in November 2003. Since then it has happened three more times, occurring more frequently (the last two times have been in the last few weeks).

I don't use Favorites. I only use Channels You Receive. When the problem occurs, I lose some to all of Channels You Receive. I have to reset the machine, and it goes back to normal. When I lose the channels, I also lose all the program guide information and whenever that particular instance of the problem started, it stopped recording anything on my To Do list.

I called DirecTV several times. They disclaim any knowledge of this being a widespread problem. They just say I need to buy a new receiver. I've never asked for a credit for the time lost. I should have. They've offered me $50 toward the purchase of a new receiver, that's it.

I just discovered this thread today. It goes back to July of 2003. My take on reading some of the later messages is that neither DirecTV or TiVo is willing to do anything to help us. The only solution is to buy a Series 2 machine, which, apparently, doesn't have the problem.

Is that correct?

Thanks.


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## alphawave7

> _Originally posted by bstock _
> *I just discovered this thread today. It goes back to July of 2003. My take on reading some of the later messages is that neither DirecTV or TiVo is willing to do anything to help us. The only solution is to buy a Series 2 machine, which, apparently, doesn't have the problem.
> 
> Is that correct?
> 
> Thanks. *


Yep, that seems to be correct. Just to let you and others know, even tho this thread goes back to June-ish 2003, we've endured the problem even a year longer than that!!
Archived Favs Zapped Again


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## dwynne

Series 2 question.

I don't have one. But let us say I hound DTV into swapping me out for a series 2 box to replace the one box I have with this problem. Do I care?

I have modded my boxes by putting in larger capacity hard drives, but I can easily put the original drive back in to return it to DTV.

My understanding is that the Series 2 boxes add protection against hackers - the kind that are stealing service - and still can be modded to use my larger drives w/o a problem.

If this is correct, then is there any reason not to accept a box swap out if we can get offered one?

Thanks
Dennis


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## stevel

You can add larger drives to S2 boxes easily. What's harder is adding software hacks. Not impossible, just harder.


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## BlankMan

June? I thought I started this thread in May of 2003?? But it was happening to me long before that I just wrote it off as a fluke. But when it continued to happen and I was getting frustrated especially when contacting DTV (continuing exercise in futility) I thought I'd see if this was happening to others. And yep, sure enough, it was/is.

One thing to be aware of, at least in the HDRV2 _Second Generation_ units it is painfully slow to step through *any* menu including the Now Playing list, on *unmodified* HDVR2's at that.


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## alphawave7

I was zapped again sometime in the last day or so.  What a fricken PITA. Calling India after dinner.


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## Budget_HT

My Sony SAT-T60 was just hit for the second time in 3 weeks. Actually it is my wife's DTiVo and she is raving mad. It did not record any of her season finale shows tonight.

I called DirecTV and reported this again. They had me reboot/reset the machine from scratch (still in progress). Since I have their protection plan, they seem willing to replace this box if it misbehaves once more.

I also have an HDVR2 and an HR10-250 HD TiVo. Neither of them has had this problem ever (of course the HD unit has only been here 2 weeks).

I lost all local channels, all 100-200 channels, most 300 channels, many 400 channels (which I don't subscribe to anyway). The second try to reset left me with just 8-10 channels, none of which come from the 101 satellite, even though the unit says both tuners are receiving all 3 satellites.

On a previous failure, I swapped cables from my multiswitch with my HDVR2 and the problem stayed with the Sony unit (proving the cables and multiswitch were not the problem--all other receivers fed by the multiswitch are having no problems). I also swapped output ports on the multiswitch and the problem still stayed with the Sony unit. I am not having any reception problems on any other DirecTV receiver.

I have perused this thread and a few others. I think I am understanding that this problem is limited to series 1 DirecTiVos, not HDVR2s and other series 2 units. Am I understanding correctly?


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## stevel

> _Originally posted by Budget_HT _
> *I think I am understanding that this problem is limited to series 1 DirecTiVos, not HDVR2s and other series 2 units. Am I understanding correctly? *


 Yes.


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## BlankMan

I did the Multiswitch port switch per DirecTV's request a long time ago and as you noticed it has no affect on the problem.

Steve, what's _Seven hundred seventy-three, zero_?


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *June? I thought I started this thread in May of 2003?? *


I was thinking about this last night when noticing my boxes still say "loading data". That bug is old (and the fix was simple) yet we still have that - so there may be "no hope" to get this other thing fixed?

I guess the resources they do still have were used to bring the HDTivo out. After all, they are get $1,000 for that baby and they already have our money 

Dennis


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## Budget_HT

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Yes. *


Thank you!


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## stevel

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Steve, what's Seven hundred seventy-three, zero? *


Those are today's counts. The first number keeps going up on an almost daily basis - I get it from the newspaper. The second I am certain never will. If you need a further hint, send me a PM.


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## BillPowers

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Those are today's counts. The first number keeps going up on an almost daily basis - I get it from the newspaper. The second I am certain never will. If you need a further hint, send me a PM. *


I know, I know. The first number is the number of people who left ZKO since Compaq and then HP took over and Intel bought, and the second is the number of people HP is shooting for to reside there. Do I win?

bill powers


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## griffincherry

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. Glad I'm not the only one having this problem, but man is it discouraging to see how long this thread's been active with no real progress made.

I've had this same problem twice in the last month or so on an unmodified Series 1 with no multi-switch. I did not have this problem at all for the first two years I had the box.

The first time this happened both my Favorites and Channels I Receive lists were cleared. The second time, Favorites was cleared but Receive was set to all channels checked.

I've noticed a couple of things that I didn't see mentioned elsewhere. First, after each time this happened, I noticed channels I wasn't receiving before. Could very well be that I'd been receiving them all along and just didn't notice, but the first time seemed to correspond to WB (or was it UPN?) being added to my locals. After the second, I noticed I started getting NBC and CBS western feeds (which is weird, being in Boston) but not the easterns or either feed for other nets.

(As an aside, I thank the stars that those western feeds were there, because both last night's Survivor and the final Frasier were botched by this glitch, but I was able to get them off the western feed later.)

Even stranger, both times this has happened I noticed the TiVo running unusually hot -- in the low 60s (which even though it says "Normal" seems dangerously high to me). Generally it runs in the high 40s. I actually noticed an increase in fan noise starting a couple of days before the first zap. After the first occurrence, I spread out the shelves in my entertainment cabinet and kept the door open. This brought the temp back down to normal. A couple of days ago we cleaned the living room and closed the door again, and within a day we got zapped.

My HD10-250 supposedly arrives today, so I'll be moving this unit up to the attic where it gets much hotter. I'll see if that increases this problem.


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## BlankMan

There has been conjecture that the process of adding new channels may have something to do with this problem.

I don't think it's heat related, all three of my T60's run around 44-46C due to fan modifications I made and they still have the problem repeatedly.


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## Mark Lopez

Sorry if I missed if someone already asked, but has anyone who had this happen only using one satellite?

BTW, I went away for the weekend and came home to find my main TiVo in this state again.


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## stevel

Yes, it has happened to me on a single-satellite system.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Yes, it has happened to me on a single-satellite system. *


Ok thank. Just wishfull thinking that maybe setting it to single sat would help since the only reason I have it set to two is the NASA channel. And that's the only one that seems to stay in the guide.


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## Markman07

My question... Do the experts here "think" that DirecTV knows what causes this or are they really unable to figure it out? If they "DO" know what causes it what is your opinion on why they aren't fixing it? (being it has been what now over a year or 18 months??))) Just want to know what you guys think is the thinking behind the scenes!


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## BrettStah

I think that the specific cause under all circumstances may not be fully known, and that it's affecting a small enough percentage of DirecTivos to not be put on the front-burner.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Markman07 _
> *My question... Do the experts here "think" that DirecTV knows what causes this or are they really unable to figure it out? If they "DO" know what causes it what is your opinion on why they aren't fixing it? (being it has been what now over a year or 18 months??))) Just want to know what you guys think is the thinking behind the scenes! *


 See this post. That's as much as we know at the moment.


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## dfr1

Mine is set to include all channels, but several times some of them just disappear. Yesterday, my local CBS affiliate was one of them, and I missed season finales for Gilmore Girls and Judging Amy. This did not make me - or TIVO - popular with the Mrs. Do I have to check to see if all the channels are there before each evening's recordings? This, along with the slow "acquiring data" glitch, is getting very, very old.


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## Andrew_S

It would be nice if Tivo and/or DirecTv would get off their collective butts and fix this issue. I'm ready to throw the baby out with the bath water and move on to functioning technology. This is getting very, very old!


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## kim2vp

> _Originally posted by Mark Lopez _
> *Ok thank. Just wishfull thinking that maybe setting it to single sat would help since the only reason I have it set to two is the NASA channel. And that's the only one that seems to stay in the guide. *


My TiVO never had this problem until I switched it to a dual satellite. Ironically I wanted to be able to record both FOX and HBO on Sunday nights and so far it has never worked correctly since I regularly get the "Channel not available" until I reboot.


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## BlankMan

Well for those of you that are following this saga and remember my mentioning that Slyvia called me on the 4th of this month (May) and sounded very concerned while I explained the problem to her (for the umpteenth time) to which she promised that she would talk to management about it and get back to me within the next week with a status, even if she had no news to report. Well it's been 16 days, a tad over 2 weeks, not just one, and guess what? I haven't heard hide nor hare from her as the saying goes. Surprise!...... Not!

Just another episode in DirecTV's continual method of extremely poor support. Anyone still want to rally behind how great DirecTV support is? How in the H*ll they win the J. D. Powers Award for Customer Service is beyond me.

We're coming up on the one year anniversary of this thread in two days, might that be a record?


----------



## bstock

Here's a report on my situation. I made a VERY large fuss over this issue, both via e-mail and by phone. I was finally contacted by someone in their "Retention Group." She was quite nice. First, she offered to replace my old machine with a series 2 for $50 plus shipping charges of $15 -- this instead of the usual $100 plus shipping. This offer had already been made to me, and I told her so. Then she said they'd pay the entire $100 if I paid for the shipping. I said no. I said if they would pay for the entire $100 plus the shipping, I'd let go of my demand for credits for time missed because of the bug. She agreed.

So, I'm set to get a new Series 2 machine installed at the end of the month. They insist on installing it, even though there's really nothing to install. Just plug it in.

One catch. They insisted on a one-year "commitment" with an early termination fee if I cancel the service. I said why should I commit to something when it's their problem? She said she really couldn't do anything about eliminating the commitment. So, I negotiated 6 months of free Showtime (she offered 3 months, but I asked for 6 and got it).

I don't know if my experience will help anyone else, but I hope so.


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## jaydro

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *How in the H*ll they win the J. D. Powers Award for Customer Service is beyond me.*


Uh, they're competing against Time Warner Cable....


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## cvarner

To win, you just have to suck the least.
It's not about being excellent, just slightly better than the competition.


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## BlankMan

Well my TiVo1 unit was hit again sometime yesterday, last night all it had left in the Favorite Channels list was 376 NASA.

Sent off another message to DirecTV. Wonder if Sylvia is going to call me again?  _ Yeah right. I make me laugh. _


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## dbett

> _Originally posted by bstock _
> *Here's a report on my situation. I made a VERY large fuss over this issue, both via e-mail and by phone. I was finally contacted by someone in their "Retention Group." She was quite nice. First, she offered to replace my old machine with a series 2 for $50 plus shipping charges of $15 -- this instead of the usual $100 plus shipping. This offer had already been made to me, and I told her so. Then she said they'd pay the entire $100 if I paid for the shipping. I said no. I said if they would pay for the entire $100 plus the shipping, I'd let go of my demand for credits for time missed because of the bug. She agreed.
> 
> So, I'm set to get a new Series 2 machine installed at the end of the month. They insist on installing it, even though there's really nothing to install. Just plug it in.
> 
> One catch. They insisted on a one-year "commitment" with an early termination fee if I cancel the service. I said why should I commit to something when it's their problem? She said she really couldn't do anything about eliminating the commitment. So, I negotiated 6 months of free Showtime (she offered 3 months, but I asked for 6 and got it).
> 
> I don't know if my experience will help anyone else, but I hope so. *


Thanks. I just replaced the hard drive in my Sony T60 because of an intermittent stuck on "Welcome. Powering Up" screen. I'm irrationally hopeful that the new hard drive will "solve" the favorite channel problem I've experienced maybe 3 or 4 times.

If I have it again, I'm going to call DTv and begin a quest for a free Series 2. The only reason I'm hesitant to do it now is that it will be a pain installing another hard drive upgrade and redoing my MX-500 remote codes.


----------



## kruckenb

> _Originally posted by griffincherry _
> *I've had this same problem twice in the last month or so on an unmodified Series 1 with no multi-switch. I did not have this problem at all for the first two years I had the box.
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Even stranger, both times this has happened I noticed the TiVo running unusually hot -- in the low 60s (which even though it says "Normal" seems dangerously high to me). Generally it runs in the high 40s. I actually noticed an increase in fan noise starting a couple of days before the first zap. After the first occurrence, I spread out the shelves in my entertainment cabinet and kept the door open. This brought the temp back down to normal. A couple of days ago we cleaned the living room and closed the door again, and within a day we got zapped.
> 
> My HD10-250 supposedly arrives today, so I'll be moving this unit up to the attic where it gets much hotter. I'll see if that increases this problem. *


Has anyone determined whether heat is a factor causing this DTivo problem?


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## lgkahn

knock on wood my back unit hasn't been hit for at least a couple of months...
I really think it is some kind of anti- piracy crap they broadcast that screws up certain units


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by kruckenb _
> *Has anyone determined whether heat is a factor causing this DTivo problem? *


 Asked and answered. Right at the top of this page at that.

But I'll say it again, my T60's run at 44-46C, you're not going to get a Series 1 DTiVo to run much cooler then that unless you leave the cover off.


----------



## BlankMan

Once again I got hit yesterday, this time to my TiVo2 unit and this time the Channels I Receive got nailed big time. Even though TWC was still in my Favorites Channels list along with only one other channel it said I was not authorized for that channel because it was removed from the Channels I received list. Also had a large number of programs that _Won't Record_ in the _To Do_ list because they were _No longer in the Guide Data_. Hope it recovers before it really loses all of them.

Time to contact DirecTV. Again. Haven't even heard back from them yet from last weeks occurrence.


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## PJO1966

It seems I got hit on Saturday night, right in the middle of a recording. It happened at 11:42pm PT.

Time to call again.


----------



## Budget_HT

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *It seems I got hit on Saturday night, right in the middle of a recording. It happened at 11:42pm PT.
> 
> Time to call again. *


Hopefully on your SD DirecTiVo and not your new HD TiVo?


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## gregstud

I get the impression from these posts that it's the same few people who keep having the same problems over and over. I HAVE had this problem happen to me...but only twice in over 2+ years. Not nearly to the frustrating extent as some on this board. Maybe you should think about taking them up on the offer to replace your series 1 with a series 2 (as I've heard has been offered to others).


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## stevel

I have had it happen five or six times, sometimes twice in a week, but not in the past couple of months. Strange.

[Edit - I knew I should have kept quiet. I jinxed it - lost the channels again sometime today.]


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## mboge

> _Originally posted by stevel
> *>>Steve, what's Seven hundred seventy-three, zero? *_*
> Those are today's counts. The first number keeps going up on an almost daily basis - I get it from the newspaper. The second I am certain never will. If you need a further hint, send me a PM. *


I got it! It has to do with Iraq, doesn't it?

Except I think your numbers are off a little... the first one should be something like *three-hundred thousand* and growing all the time (that would be the number of mass graves found of the people murdered by the Saddam regime, right?).

The second number is correct, though... *zero* is the number of people that Saddam will ever be able to murder again.


----------



## stevel

Well, I had another long chat with DirecTV this evening. At least this time they didn't deny knowledge of the problem. I was told that the C update would fix it. but as we know (and as they told me), it is not being rolled out to Series 1 boxes and they have no idea when or even if it will be. To be honest, I take the statement about C fixing it with a carton of salt, but...

They initially offered to replace both my DSR6000s with "series 2" models (hey, that's what THEY called it!) for $49. After I griped some more and got transferred to a supervisor, they waived the fee.

The problem I have accepting the offer is that both my units are hacked, with big drives and network adapters. I can reuse the drives, but would lose the investment in network adapters. Then I'd have to enter a whole new phase of hacking to restore the added functionality I have now on the new boxes - and would have to buy new network adapters. I know how to do all this, but it's a LOT of work. On the other hand, my wife would no longer gripe at me about losing her shows. I spoke to her about this and she is for the swap.

Sniff. I've had these boxes for 2+ years and this sort of feels like a "giving in". Any words of caution before I surrender?


----------



## BrettStah

I guess there's no way to transfer your settings (season passes, wishlists, etc.) from your current ones to your new ones, huh? To me that would be the biggest pain (I don't have them hacked, except for added hard drives).


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## stevel

Oh, there might be. There is a "backup" module for TiVoWeb, but I haven't tried it. Interesting thought, as my wife has lots of SPs and wishlists.


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## BlankMan

I have considered it myself, the biggest drawbacks were losing the network connectivity and TiVoWeb. I rely on TiVoWeb a lot functionality wise so not having that is a show stopper. But you seem to indicate that networking is possible and so is TiVoWeb, is that true on HDVR2's? I never looked into it, having my three T60's accessible that way is sufficient. It is sort of giving in, won't help in getting them to fix it either if the ranks thin, but I can say I don't blame you.

Interesting that they said the "C" version would fix it since the "C" version is only available for _Second Generation_ boxes that never had the problem to start with.


----------



## stevel

Yes, networking and TiVoWeb is available for HDVR2s (and DSR7000s and DVR40s). Discussed elsewhere. I too would consider loss of the network functionality a showstopper, but it is available, so I'm proceeding. Anyone want to buy a CacheCard and/or a TurboNet? (I have one of each.) Send me a PM if you're interested.

The statement given to me was that the "C" update "fixes lots of things". But we also know that the C update was intended for series 1 boxes as well, but wasn't deployed due to an unresolved problem. I remain skeptical that the fix for this really was to be in "C".


----------



## bodosom

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *Oh, there might be. There is a "backup" module for TiVoWeb, but I haven't tried it. Interesting thought, as my wife has lots of SPs and wishlists. *


Based on my experiece moving from a S1SA to a S2SA backup is great. However there's a little glitch in the input parser so complicated AWL entries may have to be fixed up by hand and somewhat distressingly one entry caused tivoapp to exit. It took a couple of tries to determine that

1) it was just one entry and
2) that skipping that one was just the ticket.

I pity anyone with a long SP list that has to move it by hand.


----------



## BrettStah

Anyone know if it's possible to backup settings from a first-generation DirecTivo that does not have networking and TivoWeb installed? In other words, can you extract the same information by pulling the hard drive out and putting in a PC, and then restore to a newer model?


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## cvarner

Well, it happened to me again today, but this time it was slightly different:
I lost all the favorite channels EXCEPT the local channel I left it tuned to last night before going to bed. When I rebooted, it wiped that one out as well, and I got the usual: "This Channel List has not been set up..." message. In slightly less than three years, this is about the 7th or 8th time I lost the favorites.
I just replaced the failed 40 GB and noisy 80 GB hard drives in my T60 with a single 120 GB about 10 days ago. I don't think this is related, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.
I'd consider upgrading to a Series 2 if it was free, but I really like the Sony remote compared to the "peanut", so I'm waffling.


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## stevel

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *Anyone know if it's possible to backup settings from a first-generation DirecTivo that does not have networking and TivoWeb installed? *


 Looks tough. The TiVoWeb backup code requires the TiVo software to be running, and is quite complex.


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## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *[Edit - I knew I should have kept quiet. I jinxed it - lost the channels again sometime today.] *


That has happened to me several times. Sometimes I think someone at DirecTV watches this thread and as soon as someone posts they haven't had it happen in a while, they press the magic button. 



> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *They initially offered to replace both my DSR6000s with "series 2" models (hey, that's what THEY called it!) for $49. After I griped some more and got transferred to a supervisor, they waived the fee.
> *


A while back I said I gave up on waiting for this to be fixed and was going to switch to series 2 units. However, after buying one I found it much slower in several areas. First the now playing list takes a long time to come up and often it is unresponsive to the remote. I know it's not just my machine since I have read similar complaints about the series 2 units. The bottom line is that even though this problem is a PITA, my series 1 units seem to be much faster and responsive and thus I will live with the problem.


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## Paul_D

I had my SAT-T60 in the basement get hit last week, and then yesterday the DSR6000 got nailed. I came home to find it trying to record something off of ABCE (which I don't get). No favorites, all channels I receive checked.

What is the name of the bloody moron at DTV I need to start screaming at? I managed to shake them up pretty badly over their goof up on not giving me CBS-HD-W when I'd had the necessary waiver for over two months.


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## stevel

As if to taunt me, my primary TiVo lost all the favorites this time, and reset the "receive" list to the default. At least that behavior is merely annoying.

The new ones are arriving tomorrow. I have a lot of work to do!


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## Joshv

I got hit on 5/24/04. Took me 4 days to figure out nothing had been recording.

I just rebooted, but there is still nothing in my todo list. How long does it take for todo's to show up in the list again?


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## stevel

It takes a few hours for the list to fully repopulate.


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## BlankMan

Steve I thought I heard on NPR this morning on the way in the count was 805?


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## dwynne

A couple of notes:

I have been rebooting my "bad" series one box (upgraded with 160gb drive, 2 tuners, favorites selected) every Sunday and I have not had the problem for several weeks. This "solved" it once before, then I forgot to reboot a couple of weeks and I got zapped again  I would SUGGEST to others that have the problem that you TRY this and post if this makes the problem stay away for you or not. Just do the restart on the menu is all I have been doing. Since this is the fix for the problem when it happens, I am hoping it will make it stay away.

My other series one box (upgraded with 120gb drive, 1 tuner in use, no favorites, never phones in) has NEVER had this problem and has not been rebooted since I upgraded the cooling fan several months back.

The series 2 box, of course, (upgraded drive, 2 tuners, favorites picked) has never had the problem.

All of mine run in the normal temp range, but I did upgrade the cooling fans in the series one boxes when a drive prematurely failed in one of them. All are running on UPS systems.

Dennis


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## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Steve I thought I heard on NPR this morning on the way in the count was 805? *


 And I thought the other value should be at least one, if it refers to


Spoiler



WMD found... they recently found a warhead with sarin gas in it, didn't they?


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## gregstud

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *WMD found... they recently found a warhead with sarin gas in it, didn't they?*


They found one with mustard gas too (make that 2 WMDs) but the liberal media hides that stuff on the back page.


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## BlankMan

FYI This post in another thread from a DirecTV CSR, un-officially of course, says that this issue is being worked on. Why they can't come out and state it officially is just beyond me, it would go so far in customers relations that I cannot understand why they don't see the benefit in doing so.


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## BlankMan

Oh boy. Looks like it's time that I shut up. Darn, and this was so helping my post count. 

This is actually kind of humorous.

This is really bizarre. I got home right around six and did my usual thing, open the doors and windows, sift through the mail, read some. Mind you I had to walk from the back door through the kitchen through the dining room to the living room to the front door, sit on the couch and read the mail, pet the cat, etc. Then I decided to go down to my workshop to continue work on a trellis I'm making out of Cypress for my Clematis. So I walk back through the dining room through the kitchen and down the stairs and proceed to work on this project.

Well I spend an hour or so gluing on the cross braces and while the glue is setting I decide to make something to eat so I grab something out of the freezer. It's now around seven thirty. Back up the stairs to the kitchen, throw it in the nuker, walk through the dinning room.... Well almost walk through the dining room... When I stop dead in my tracks. I'm looking at a box. On the box it says DirecTV DVR. Is my brain really seeing what my eyes are showing it? I look closer. That box is sitting on two other boxes. They both say DirecTV DVR too. As in Hughes. HDVR2.

Now mind you, my dining room is not really well lit by natural lighting, and I mostly view it as an area that I have to pass through to get from food to TiVo, and they were sitting off to one side in front of my humidifier where I may not have an occasion to always look, soooo..... Yep, I sometimes have a firm grasp of the obvious.

So, I guess this is DirecTV's olive branch. Even though I will really miss the T60's and I'm not enamored with the prospect of dealing with the slower response when scrolling through the menus, DirecTV has definitely made this effort to satisfy their (overly loud, boisterous, arrogant, obnoxious, -- I'm filling in the blanks for all the people that have come after me regarding this) customer. I'll have to keep the T60's around a while, I'm not about to lose my 100+ episodes of New Yankee Workshop, and 50 or so Wood Works, but they will definitely be in _You can only view programs from the now playing list_ mode. Well the bright side to that is all the recent storms we've been getting won't interrupt my viewing on them anymore.

Oh, if anyone's wondering how they got in my dinning room and weren't waiting for me on my porch, relatives stopped over, as they sometimes do to look in on my cat, and brought the boxes in, also as they sometimes do for me. They're used to doing that so they probably thought these were something I ordered. I usually tell them when I order something so they do stop so it doesn't get wet or disappear.

Well, I guess I have to hand it to DirecTV, my hats off to them, they took this step as a total surprise to me, to correct a problem a customer was having, and as far as I know at the moment, at no cost. But, I can't see them charging at this point, so...

I wonder if they want my T60's back? Hope not. That would pose a problem with NYW and WW recordings. I wonder how soon I have to activate them? Also, am I committed for another year? Oh well, that's future things to ponder, I'm hungry, time to go eat my nuked dinner. Guess I'll also have to email DirecTV and thank them. That'll sure as heck surprise them.


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## stevel

Did the HDVR2s come with access cards? My replacement DSR704s did not. One of them took the swapped card, but the other one had this bizarre symptom where, on anything but the DTV demo channels, I would get sound but no picture. They're sending me a new card (for free - the nerve of them at first asking me to pay $20!)

You should check the documents with the HDVR2 - my new units said that I had to return the old ones within seven days. But you may have gotten special treatment.


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## BlankMan

I haven't even opened one yet, I'll do that and get back to you. I hope I hope I do not have to return them, or I can negotiate that. I'll even agree to never never selling them, or at a minimum return them at that time. I would think that since I did not agree to receiving these that gives me an edge to keep my T60's. I also hope that they are reasonable once they understand just why I would like to keep them.


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## BlankMan

No packing list, no instructions, no return authorization anything. Just three brand spanken' new DVR40's, yes DVR40's, not HDVR2's, each with an access card. They look boxed for retail sale. I mistakenly assumed HDVR2's only because I looked at the picture on the box and it looks like an HDVR2. Like I said, I'm pretty dumbfounded at the moment. Even after opening one to check the contents I didn't notice it was a DVR40 until I was putting the box down and caught a glimpse of the label on the side of the box and then looked at the other two.

Oh there is a glimmering light at the end of this tunnel, if only I find that the scrolling response in going through the menus and Now Playing list is as responsive as my T60's I will be one very happy camper! I may just have to power one of these suckers up tonight yet!!!


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## stevel

Well, it does seem that persistence has paid off for you. Congratulations!

I did encounter some slutggishness of the remote when I first set up the DSR704s (which were refurbished, BTW, and included only a power cord and a remote - not even batteries!), but not after that.


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## ByronTodd

I had really stopped checking here because of the non-changing issue... But then last night, I noticed that my SAT-T60 had stopped dialing up DirecTV for two weeks. This happened even though I have had an external modem working with the T60 since last November. I checked out the modem and it worked just fine with my portable computer - which means that the serial controller in the T60 is now also dead - meaning that I NEED a new DVR.

I checked here and saw that there has been at least somewhat of an acknowledgement of the problem by DirecTV. I decided to take advantage of DirecTV's acknowledgment of the favorite channels problem... So I made the call. I first talked to a DirecTV rep who apologized for the problem that I was having but needed to transfer me to the DVR support. I then talked to Lashonda who said that for a replacement fee they would replace my T60 and I could pay either $79 for a replacement unit with no contract commitment or I could pay $49 for one with a 1 year contract commitment.

I decided to bluff. Now, I live in a fairly rural area where my choices of Internet are either dial-up or direct-way... The cable company doesn't even have a local office... They don't even offer digital cable out here! But I'm pretty sure that Lashonda didn't know that. So I told her that my cable company had offered me cable Internet and their version of a dvr for nothing but a 1 year commitment and why should I pay DirecTV for something that was an acknowledged problem??? At this point, Lashonda decided that the problem was an "unknown" problem and she had never heard of it. Furthermore, she couldn't waive any fees, but I could talk to her supervisor if I wished. I *wished*.

I gave the same story to the supervisor, and when I told him of the cable company's offer of free equipment for a 1 year commitment, I told him that the most I could do was a 1 year commitment for them to fix their known problem. BOOM! The guy started giving me a confirmation number for replacement before I was ready. He did tell me that it would probably be five days to a week before the replacement unit shipped - because they were shipping out an huge number of replacements... Hmm, I wonder why!

Anyway, my SATT60 was dying/dead anyway (with the complete modem and modem communication failure), but I've got a free replacement on the way. I'll report back as to which unit I get shipped, but I'm not expecting it for a week...

Good luck to the rest


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## BlankMan

I saw the thread on the NASA channel moving from the 119 SAT to the 101 SAT earlier today, I just went and looked at all my DTiVo's, everyone of them was missing the NASA channel (376) from the Favorite Channels list, even the HDVR2. Another _feature_?


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## stevel

It won't show in Favorites unless it's checked in Receive. Go see if it is. NASA shows up fine on my DSR704.


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## lgkahn

in my book that is a feature of the favorites list.. if you use the favorites for your guide you don't keep getting the damn shopping shows back in your guide even though direct tv keeps turning them off and back on and they keep getting turned back on in your channels you receive they don't get turned back on in the favorites....


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by lgkahn _
> *in my book that is a feature of the favorites list.. if you use the favorites for your guide you don't keep getting the damn shopping shows back in your guide even though direct tv keeps turning them off and back on and they keep getting turned back on in your channels you receive they don't get turned back on in the favorites.... *


 That makes sense, I didn't think of that. And the fact that the channel had to be deleted from the Channels I Receive list and then added back in to foster the move would explain it disappearing from the Favorite Channels list. That I guess I can live with. As you point out I would not want it putting in every new channel especially the shopping channels. Too bad though, I would think it could be smart enough to know it was in there and put it back in in a case like this, but I guess that is not written into to the code.

Steve, I will do that when I get home tonight. I do suspect that it will be checked because I've never seen any channels not checked in the Channels I Receive list except for ones that I unchecked. I seen references to people having unchecked channels and they manually have to check them but never saw that myself. I don't know what is proper operation for that.


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## Vesper

Blankman-

Good news on your replacement units. I'm tempted to try for a free replacement, but haven't yet for a few reasons:

1) I'm really not looking forward to the pain and agony of phone support. With my luck I'll end up with an adamant CSR who makes me unplug my Tivo for 30 minutes, reboot, or clear & delete everything.

2) I'd really miss TivoWeb. It has saved me from accidental deletions countless times. Other than that one feature, I could probably live without it. 

So for the moment, I'm still hoping for a fix. (haha.. yeah right.)

- Mike


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by Vesper _
> *2) I'd really miss TivoWeb. It has saved me from accidental deletions countless times. Other than that one feature, I could probably live without it. *


 That was my problem also, but Steve has pointed out that that is not the case, and he says it is quite painless to do. I do see one other drawback to it, but I like he can live with it. I think. I will find out. As soon as my two 160G Samsung drives arrive tomorrow I will be installing them in one of the units and we will see. After being used to 230 hours per unit I don't think I could go back to 35 hours.  I'm anxious to see just how much more two 160G drives give verses a 120G and a 160G which is my current configuration.


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## BrettStah

It'll give you 40 more GB.


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## BlankMan

Steve, NASA (376) was checked in all four DTiVo's in the Channels I Receive list just like I thought it would be. But after the earlier explaination I can see why it got removed from the Favorite Channels list, that I can live with.


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## BlankMan

I just noticed my Tivo3 was hit again, but in a slightly different way. This time all the channels in my Favorite Channels list were gone except for my locals. That's a new twist. I'm not complaining, just documenting the occurrence for future reference. I have the solution now once I bring them online, my worries should be over. (He says with fingers crossed.)

Maybe it's in process of losing them and that's why the locals are still there or maybe it has something to do with the satellite transponder shuffling that is going on, who knows. I'm going to leave it go for a while and see what happens before I reboot it.


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## lgkahn

be carefull the series 2's don't support 160 gig drives only 137 gig with the kernal if you don't shrink the drives with maxblast 3 or somethign similiar when the drives fill up you will get crashes


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by lgkahn _
> *be carefull the series 2's don't support 160 gig drives only 137 gig with the kernal if you don't shrink the drives with maxblast 3 or somethign similiar when the drives fill up you will get crashes *


 Does this differ from the Series 1 in some way? I know the usable space is limited to 137G, but I thought they would act just like the T60's and ignore the remaining. When the partition is set up it is set up for only 137G, do the Series 2 somehow ignore the partition table and go beyond that? I thank you for your post, if this is a real problem I was unaware if any such limitation like this.


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## lgkahn

well mfs tools 2.0 will partition the whole 160 gig because its kernel supports it... the tivo will happily say you are ok untill you fill up the space past that point then will repeatedly start crashing I don't know about samsung but on maxtors I used maxblast 3 software to reduce the cylinders to the drive was around 137 gig... If you can find 120 gig drives it is easier not worth the trouble for the few extra meg....

there are supposedly some people who have been able to manually replace the kernal with a different kernal that works with the larger size but I have not been able to do that in conjunction with monte...


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## stevel

I haven't seen that to be the case - I've run with 160GB drives for quite a while. They are treated as 137s, and mfs tools 2 reports them as 137 ("approximately 120 hours")

Oh, but are you referring to a particular CD as "mfs tools 2.0"? I could see the point there. I've just run mfs tools from a "standard" boot disc that doesn't have the LBA48 kernel.


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## bgreen5

Well, in the 3-ish years since I've owned a D-TiVo receiver, all of my units got hit with this bug for the first time last night (Favorite channels list got zapped).

When I began reading the OP, I saw the "May 23" date stamp on the thread. Combined with a 40+ page thread, I assumed everybody got zapped recently.

Then, I realized that the OP was dated 200*3* (not 2004). Wow.

So, can someone please give me the skinny so that I don't have to read pages 2 thru 40 to find out what I need to do? Is this something I will have to "live with"? Do the Series-2 receiver versions "fix" the problem? Should I still contact TiVoOpsMgr with my 15-digit service number, or is that an archaic path to resolution?


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## BlankMan

Well I'll set the two 160G drives up then see what the patition table looks like before using them. If the partition table indeed shows it uses the entire drive I could modify the partition table and reduce the size to 137G, but are the MFS partitions like normal UNIX/Linux partitions/filesystems wherein reducing the partition after the filesystem is created screws up the filesystem? Mind you, I would do the reduction before ever booting the disks in the TiVo.

I know I could have went the 120G route but the 160G drives were under $100 so I figured I might as well squeeze out as many hours as I can.


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## BlankMan

*bgreen* there's really nothing you can do to prevent it, but do call DirecTV and report it regardless of how painful that is. And push on past the usual _I've never heard of the problem_ response and get a Tivo Specialist and don't give up easy. The more reports DirecTV has of this showing how many customers are affected the more effort they might (I say might) put in to fixing it. All the people in love with DirecTV have consistently downplayed this problem saying DirecTV is not going to fix it because it only affects a very very tiny cross section of their customers, so the more people that report it the better.

On Series 1 units which are the only ones affected you have to live with it, Series 2 units do not exhibit the problem. Contacting TiVoOpsMgr may or may not get you anywhere, I don't know how he'd react, he probably gets a lot of email so I won't recommend adding to that, he has to do that. I noticed he has changed his signature probably because he was getting too much email. But, DirecTV has told TiVo not to comment on this problem in any official manner, that is why we no longer get any info on the problem in the thread. As far as DirecTV is concerned, hush is the word. I really don't like how they choose to do business that way, it's like a cover-up and it only serves to ruin their creditability.


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## stevel

bgreen5, there is no "fix" other than getting DirecTV to replace your receivers, which they are willing to do if you complain enough. It will do no good to contact TiVoOpsMgr - it isn't under TiVo's control.

Or you can live with it and wait to see if DirecTV releases an update to the software to fix this. They told me that it was in the works, but had no scheduled release date.


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## bgreen5

Thanks, BlankMan and Stevel.

I'm now debating whether I will actually call DirecTV or not. Their CSRs have been terrible in my past experience. They also have a ridiculous system for tracking which receivers are where (relying not on serial numbers, but on installed room locations... WTF is _that_ all about??? My home appliances are always getting re-shuffled; the reciever locations are occasionally swapped. I try to give the CSR a serial number and they don't know what to do with me).

On the other hand, I want to report the problem so that they have one more datapoint logged. (I just don't want to have to go thru the pain of hours of voice menus and incompetent CSRs... anyone want to be my surrogate ombudsman?   )

Hmmm. Decisions....


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## bgreen5

Well... I did "the right thing" and reported the issue, wasting an hour of my life in the process.

The response was as-expected. Typical monkey CSRs working from scripts ("Go to Guided Setup...", reboot, blah blah blah). Got transferred 3 times, each time to an individual who walked thru the same script as before. 

Apparently, none of the individuals I spoke with had ever heard of such a thing as a "TiVo specialist".

Yada yada yada. 

Oh well, I did my part.


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## stevel

I just give the CSR the last four digits of the access card, as I too shuffle units. They never have a problem with that. I also have not had an issue getting escalated to a TiVo specialist, though the first-level CSR is apparently required to go through their script.

I've actually been happy with the support I get from DirecTV's CSRs, on the whole. I do agree that their tracking system needs a lot of work.


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## Paul_D

Both my T60 and DSR6000 have gotten nuked (repeatedly on consecutive days) the last two days (I haven't checked today yet). I'm guessing with all the channel moving going on to get 7S operational, this is exacerbating the problem. (Interestingly, my T60, which I have set as just a single slot because it wasn't fully booting set as 101/119, still gets crammed by this.)

When it was just an occasional thing, it was annoying but livable. But now I have to check both units every day. That puts me into the "threshold of big pain" area.


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## BlankMan

But just remember, it's happening to so few of us DirecTV customers that DirecTV doesn't view it as a problem... 

Can't wait to get home tonight to assess the damage once again...


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by bgreen5 _
> *So, can someone please give me the skinny so that I don't have to read pages 2 thru 40 to find out what I need to do? Is this something I will have to "live with"? Do the Series-2 receiver versions "fix" the problem? *


I have posted in this thread a couple of times - when this happens the "fix" is to restart the Tivo, so I have been restarting mine every week on Sunday. So far (knock on wood) I have been several weeks w/o losing channels.

So in addition to calling in a complaint, you could TRY doing the restart once a week and see if that keeps the problem away until they craft a fix.

Dennis


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by dwynne _
> *I have posted in this thread a couple of times - when this happens the "fix" is to restart the Tivo, so I have been restarting mine every week on Sunday. So far (knock on wood) I have been several weeks w/o losing channels.
> 
> So in addition to calling in a complaint, you could TRY doing the restart once a week and see if that keeps the problem away until they craft a fix.
> 
> Dennis *


 People have done that and still been nailed, including myself, just consider yourself lucky.


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## Phantom Gremlin

Here's a hint about losing channels you receive.

The ONLY ONLY time this ever happened to me (3 x SAT-T60) over several years was the morning after I did a bunch of fiddling by manually adding and deleting channels I receive and also favorites.

I normally don't mess with either of those functions.

Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't think so.

So, here's the question and/or hint:

Does this happen to you more often and/or only the day after you fiddle with either of those functions (i.e. add/delete channels you receive or favorites)? If so, then LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. Stop fiddling so often.


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## BrettStah

Phantom Gremlin, it does seem to happen a lot more frequently after "fiddling", but it does occasionally happen without fiddling too.


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## stevel

I never "fiddled" - except when DirecTV screwed up the settings and I had to fix them.


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## BlankMan

I don't _fiddle_ either, at all. The only time I touch my Favorite Channels list is after this bug hits and I have to put my choices back in (after a reboot to get them back in the Channels I Receive list). Then I don't touch it until the next occurrence.


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## Andrew_S

I never touch my favorites and my Tivo forgets them once a month. And it's starting to happen like clockwork.


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## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *I don't fiddle either, at all. The only time I touch my Favorite Channels list is after this bug hits and I have to put my choices back in (after a reboot to get them back in the Channels I Receive list).*


 That is the type of "fiddling" I thought was being referred to. I've personally noticed that I have far fewer occurrences of the bug discussed here when I don't add/remove anything to my Favorites list or Channels I Receive list, although it still does occur on occasion (maybe once every few months or so on one of my DirecTivos). When it hits, I just reboot and leave the lists alone.


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## BrettStah

By the way, I'm not trying to imply that it's anyone's fault if they make use of the Channels I Receive and Favorites lists as they were intended to be used.


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## PJO1966

I don't use the Channels I Receive or Favorite Channels and I still get hit.


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## BrettStah

Me too. Just not as frequently as when I have edited them.


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## bstock

I have to fiddle with the Channels You Receive list because DirecTV keeps checking channels I don't want. In particular, it adds Here, GEMS, and CSHP. I uncheck them. It checks them. Sometimes, I think longingly about a lawsuit against them for this intrusion. God knows I've complained enough.

If I were to leave them checked, they would be used in searching, which I don't want. Also, it makes me angry. I've been told that the reason they keep getting checked is because any "new" channel that DirecTV activates is automatically checked when it's "added" to the list. Certain old channels keep getting deactivated. Therefore, when they're reactivated, they're checked. The only question no one has been able to answer is WHY the channels get deactivated. Regardless of the reason, I blame DirecTV. Even if it's the channels' fault, DirecTV could put in some sort of mechanism so that it doesn't happen.


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## lgkahn

do this to avoid that problem... (doesn't avoid the getting clobbered problem but avoids the having to fiddle with the channel lists all the time due to the damn shopping channels)

uncheck them in channels you recieve and 
then goto favorites and check all. (this should be only all the channels you receive checked).. now goto the guide and change you guide preferences to be your favorites... now no matter how many times thay add and remove the damn shopping channels they will not show up in the guide again...
should no longer require any more fiddling unless you specifically want to add new channels


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## stevel

No, that doesn't really help. You may not have realized it from the title here, but the REAL problem is that the "Channels You Receive" list periodically gets wiped out - as in, all channels unchecked and the local channels disappear entirely. This causes the TiVo to believe that it doesn't receive those channels anymore and doesn't record programs which would be on those channels.


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## lgkahn

read my message.. I didn't state it gets rid of the problem of getting cloberred I specifically stated that... I have two series 1 boxes and they get affected also .. I was responding about helping him so he doesn't have to fiddle with the channel settings....


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## stevel

But you miss the point. You HAVE to "fiddle with the channel settings" when the list gets clobbered. But even using the favorites list to avoid seeing channels you don't want isn't foolproof, because that too gets wiped out on occasion.


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## cvarner

> _Originally posted by lgkahn _
> *do this to avoid that problem...
> uncheck them in channels you recieve and then goto favorites and check all. (this should be only all the channels you receive checked).. now goto the guide and change you guide preferences to be your favorites... now no matter how many times thay add and remove the damn shopping channels they will not show up in the guide again...
> should no longer require any more fiddling unless you specifically want to add new channels *


I think that what lgkahn means here is that the unwanted channels won't show up in the favorites list using the above procedure. But the problem is that they continue to appear again in the channels you receive list, which means they're used in searching for wish list and season pass programs, which is what bstock is complaining about. This definitely is a PITA.


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## lgkahn

Yes but the point was that fiddling with it regularly brings on the clobbering of the list which I think may somewhat be true.. because my box also hasn't had it happen in a long time... but it may just be coincidence in any case setting up the lists like I outlined reduced the amount of time you have to fiddle with it... the only time you have to touch it is AFTER the box gets clobbered to add the channels back in....


and usually when it gets clobbered a simple reboot is enough and all lists are back there without any intervention in my experience...

but you are right sometimes you need to re-set them up...


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## cvarner

BTW, just for the record, my favorites got nailed again at some point in the last 36 hours. I never "fiddle" with the favorites list after the initial setup process, or after getting nailed by the "bug". Which seems to be more frequent than usual of late. It doesn't seem to matter how many or what type of hard drive you have. I replaced a 40+80 setup in my T60 about 6 weeks ago with a single 120 from Weaknees, and the problem still occurs.


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## BrettStah

A reboot has always restored the Channels I Receive list for me (it takes some time, but I've never had all/most channels on that list unchecked for very long after a reboot.


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## lgkahn

yep you are right they will show up with season passes and searching but I got too tired of continually removing such things as shopping channels etc. anyway..


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## cvarner

In my experience, the channels you receive list gets restored after a reboot, but not as I had configured it prior. Also, once my favorites disappears, it has NEVER come back on its own after a reboot. It gets completely wiped out every time.

FWIW, I don't think there's a relationship between "fiddling" and losing the favorites. But you never know.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *That is the type of "fiddling" I thought was being referred to. I've personally noticed that I have far fewer occurrences of the bug discussed here when I don't add/remove anything to my Favorites list or Channels I Receive list, although it still does occur on occasion (maybe once every few months or so on one of my DirecTivos). When it hits, I just reboot and leave the lists alone. *


 Well if you don't _fiddle_ with the Favorite Channels list after one of these occurrences wipes it out that would seem to me to say you don't use it. If you don't do the initial set up there would be no channels in it so in my mind it be pretty hard to use it that way.

_Fiddling_ to me means you periodically go in there and add or remove channels on a daily or weekly basis and does not include setting it up the initial time.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *No, that doesn't really help. You may not have realized it from the title here, but the REAL problem is that the "Channels You Receive" list periodically gets wiped out - as in, all channels unchecked and the local channels disappear entirely. This causes the TiVo to believe that it doesn't receive those channels anymore and doesn't record programs which would be on those channels. *


 Steve, when I get nailed the channels aren't just unchecked in the Channels I Receive list, they are totally gone, as in *poof gone*. Then when I reboot of course they come back and they're all checked. I haven't been unchecking any in the Channels I Receive list, I pretty much exclusively use the Favorite Channels list.


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## EDiT

Just to add my $0.02, I just had this occur for about the 5th time, and caught it while it was happening. I got home and had the "cannot acquire data from satellite" error for about 45 minutes. Then after watching a recorded show it came back and was missing favorites. 

I called DirecTV and they told me it is a known issue with the 3 big series 1 receivers (T60, dsr6000, gxcebotd) and there was no ETA on a fix.

I'm debating if I should try for a replacement. I didnt see any feedback in the past few pages, has anyone had to send their old one back? If not, are they able to subscribe it again? It wouldn't be too bad to use the current one as a second room unit where I wouldn't care about the favorites.


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## BlankMan

They have not asked that I send my T60's back, but I have not activated any of the DVR40's yet, when I call they may try. I think _Stevel_ had to send his back.

I've watched it happen twice now, but neither time did I see the _cannot acquire data from satellite_ message while it was happening, the channels just slowly disappeared from the Favorite Channels list and I got more and more Channels that said _Channel not Available_.

Since you were told it is a known problem by front line CSR's I wonder if DirecTV has finally made them aware of it and have told them to acknowledge it as a known problem? That would be a step in the right direction at least. If that's the case, it only took over a year. Who says big corporate wheels turn slowly?  We'll see if this starts to be the norm or is an isolated incident.


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## BrettStah

OK, fiddle-free and got hit tonight on one of our first-generation DirecTivos. First time during prime-time for us, and first time in probably 2 months. I missed the beginning of the basketball game, which wasn't cool. Luckily I happened to notice early, because normally I wouldn't have even switched over to the game until about an hour or so into it.. I called, spoke to a CSR who has never heard of the problem, I explained the situation as briefly as possible, and the final result is they want to try new access cards. I decided not to fight them on it, even though BlankMan already reported new cards didn't resolve it for him. Maybe it resolves it for some people... we'll see if I'm lucky or not. 

I'm not looking forward to getting replacement Tivos as a solution, since the hassle of hard drive upgrades and configuration information transfer would be a, well, hassle. But if the access cards don't fix it, that's what I'll probably wind up having to do.

I was wondering if we would be hit due to all of the channel changes that have been happening in the background in my area... the New Orleans channels switched from one satellite to another, and to a different transponder. Lots of behind-the-scenes stuff was probably done, and I figured it may trigger the bug. Maybe just a coincidence though.


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## Rik

I got hit tonight as well. Just after 8:00 PM EST. First time in a long time. I had thought that I was "left alone" because I had not made any adjustments to the channels I receive or favorites lists. But tonight it happened regardless.


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## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by Rik _
> *I got hit tonight as well. Just after 8:00 PM EST.*


 I'm not sure of the exact time, but the Recording History shows that a show that was supposed to record at 7pm (Central, so that's 8 Eastern) did not due to "Internal error: 4". The only "important" thing I had set to record on that Tivo tonight is the basketball game, and I noticed it wasn't recording due to the "Channel Not Available" bug a few minutes after the game started, which I guess is about an hour after this error. The recordings prior to this error occurred at 6pm Central, and lasted 30 minutes. So sometime between 6:30-7pm is when I guess the Tivo was "hit".


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## stevel

Yes, I had to send back my old boxes. What I received were refurbished S2 boxes with remote, power cord and nothing else. One of the new S2 boxes was defective so I returned that and got another which I have not set up yet. DirecTV pays for return shipping. They tried to get me to pay $49 for the replacements, but I said no and they waived the charge.


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## EDiT

Yeah, they wanted $50 here too, and since I have 150+hours of recordings on it, I had to turn down the opportunity to send my current one back. 

I didn't know about the $99 deal though, and just got in on that. Now I'll get another free multiswitch, and I'll put this dtivo in the bedroom.


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## sulli2p

Hit again, on 06/09/04, absolutley nothing out of the ordinary from my end prior to the hit. Deleted favorites and "all channels I receive" except for a couple of PPV stations. Missed all season pass recordings too of course. Restart fixed it and set favorites back to none. Looks like I made it exactly six months since the last time.

I don't mind losing my favorites nearly as much as I mind losing my season pass recordings during the channel outage period. Does anyone know if "all channels I receive" eventually come back without manual intervention with a restart, so that my season passes will continue to record? If this happens early in our vacation, and we miss two weeks worth of recordings, I will be very, very unhappy.

BTW, I remain mystified as to why its been over a year since my series one has had a software update. It looks like the series one systems have been deliberately "obsoleted" by DTV. Very discouraging.



> _Originally posted by sulli2p _
> *Thanks for a hugely informative thread. My guess is that the next software upgrade will fix this one.
> 
> Just happened to me for the first time yesterday, 01/10/2004, after two years. DSR6000R01 (Series 1). Favorites deleted and "Channels You Receive" set back to default (all). I sent off a note to Stephen Mack, Director of Service Operations at TiVo, but clearly the issue and fix are known, it's just a matter of DTV becoming "willing" to get this into their next rev.
> 
> RM has a lot riding on DTV, I suspect that "stupid" issues like this one will get fixed a whole lot quicker in the future. *


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by sulli2p _
> *Hit again, on 06/09/04, absolutley nothing out of the ordinary from my end prior to the hit. Deleted favorites and "all channels I receive" except for a couple of PPV stations. Missed all season pass recordings too of course. Restart fixed it and set favorites back to none. Looks like I made it exactly six months since the last time. *


That is what makes me think it could be an "ECM" from D* - or they removed/added channels to everyone. It SEEMS like a good number for the folks have the problem about the same time. One person reports, then others all around the same time. IIRC most of the times it was on a Wednesday or Thursday.

When was the last time you rebooted your box before this?

I have been booting mine every Sunday for several weeks and I have (so far) not had a repeat while doing this - knock on wood.

Dennis


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## sulli2p

I don't remember when I last rebooted, I'm sure it has been at least a month or two. If I recall, Stephen Mack, Director of Service Operations at TiVo, is on record, earlier in this thread, as having said that TiVo has had a fix for this issue for at least six months, if not longer. But for whatever reason, DTV has been unwilling or unable to implement it.

Sorry to say, many people have thought they had a home grown fix for this issue, only to be tricked by its sporatic nature. It's kind of like the baseball batter going through all his girations before he swings at the ball, because at some point in the past he thinks they may have helped him get a hit.

Good Luck Though.

Kevin



> _Originally posted by dwynne _
> *That is what makes me think it could be an "ECM" from D* - or they removed/added channels to everyone. It SEEMS like a good number for the folks have the problem about the same time. One person reports, then others all around the same time. IIRC most of the times it was on a Wednesday or Thursday.
> 
> When was the last time you rebooted your box before this?
> 
> I have been booting mine every Sunday for several weeks and I have (so far) not had a repeat while doing this - knock on wood.
> 
> Dennis *


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by sulli2p _
> * If I recall, Stephen Mack, Director of Service Operations at TiVo, is on record, earlier in this thread, as having said that TiVo has had a fix for this issue for at least six months, if not longer. But for whatever reason, DTV has been unwilling or unable to implement it.
> *


 Early on they thought they did have a fix but the bug turned out to me more elusive then they thought, the units they had running with the fix got hit too. But before that information could be conveyed to us here in this Thread DirecTV told TiVo not to say anything on this subject anymore, hence we did not get that information when it was discovered. I'm pretty sure that at this point they still do not have a permanent fix.

Don't ask me how I know.


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## dwynne

> _Originally posted by sulli2p _
> *Sorry to say, many people have thought they had a home grown fix for this issue, only to be tricked by its sporatic nature.*


Pooh pooh rebooting if you want 

I was getting regular occurrences of the problem - and when I checked in here I noticed others had them at about the same time. Since I started rebooting once a week I have not had a single problem and lots of folks are getting hit. The only time I did have a problem is the one week I forgot to reboot.

It does not take much time or effort, so I do it every Sunday. If the problem has stayed away due to luck or reboot I can't say for sure, but in either case as long as it stays away then :up:

Dennis


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## lgkahn

I haven't rebooted in months and haven't been hit before I was hit regularly... I don't think rebooting has anything to do with it


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## BlankMan

Rebooting -- Hashed hashed and rehashed. Some seem to thing it helps, some seem to think it doesn't. I personally think it doesn't. When I tried the regime it didn't help they still got hit. IMO I think the ones that are not getting hit are just lucky and it has nothing to do with rebooting. If it was a sure fix I'm pretty sure I would have heard that as a possible workaround.

From where you wonder? Once again don't ask.


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## dwynne

Hey, I will stick Voo Doo pins in my stuffed Tivos dolls if it will keep the channels from going away 

My HD Tivo will be here on Tuesday, but I am THINKING I will probably still keep this "problem box" as well. I already have 3 DTivos (1 series 2, 1 series 1 w/o a problem, and the problem child) - but it will be only an extra $5 a month to keep it going. With new ones going for $99 everywhere, my 2 year old box (with 160gb drive) would not bring much anyway. I am thinking I will use the HD box just for HD stuff and the SD box for the rest.

I guess I need to start watching for sales on 250gb drives now....

Dennis


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## macgyver

Okay, I have some free time, but not enough to read through the last 40 pages of this thread.

So, I have this bug (often) on my series 1.
I do not have it on my series 2.

Is this bug really a year old?
Is there any fix?
Whose butt at DTV do I have to put my foot into to get the problem fixed, or a free upgrade to a series 2?

Thanks,

- k


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## stevel

The bug is more than a year old.
There is no fix.
You can complain at 800-DIRECTV. Some of us have gotten free replacement receivers. However, you will likely have to go through several levels at DirecTV to get this far, and along the way you are sure to be told "we've never heard of this before".


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## sigloxx

I've had this issue with the sony sat t60 for ages. I've been a DTV customer for 5 years and emailed them. Aaron called back today, he's above customer retention, and knows of the issue (I didn't take the time to read but the first page of threads). DTV knows there's a problem. You have to contact the right person to get this resolved, way above customer retention. They will offer you three choices (or should). One, replace your unit with a new DTV DVR, $99 version, free. Only problem is you lose your lifetime membership should have one, like me. Programming through DTV for these units is $5 a month, versus Tivo's now $12 a month. Second option, stick with what you have and they'll give you a movie channel free for 6 months. Big deal, but it's free, and maybe they'll fix this issue, though as Aaron explained, it's like working on DOS when you can work on WinXP, so their priority isn't exactly there, for lots of reasons, mainly that not all that many units are affected in the grand scheme of things. Third option, they'll credit you $99 of your own purchase of an upgraded unit (pick whatever you want). They probably won't do this for just any customer, but long term ones. Now I'll continue to read some more posts. Sorry if this is repeat information.


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## Budget_HT

> _Originally posted by sigloxx _
> * ... Only problem is you lose your lifetime membership should have one, like me. Programming through DTV for these units is $5 a month, versus Tivo's now $12 a month. ... *


Are you sure about this? Since the DirecTiVo accounts moved from TiVo to DirecTV, the lifetime membership is attached to your DirecTV account, not any specific DirecTiVo box.

The Sony SAT-T60 DirecTiVo that I purchased first with lifetime service (from TiVo, before DirecTV took over), failed about 6 months ago and was replaced with a brand new HDVR2 unit. There was no issue with keeping the lifetime service for the replacement unit and for my other SAT-T60, which did not (yet) have the same hard drive failure.

Now that SAT-T60 is a victim of the lost channels at times. I am on record with DirecTV for a free replacement unit if the SAT-T60 loses channels again.

I should mention that I have the DirecTV Protection Plan, and that may affect how I am being handled in this scenario.

But, I would still be surprised if a replacement DirecTiVo on the same DirecTV account would not automatically keep its lifetime service, regardless of how the replacement was acquired.

But, I have been surprised before.


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## sigloxx

Dave, good information, though I don't have DTV the protection plan. I assume that covers you. It was indicated that the new unit would come with a $5 charge per month. I mentioned it twice to Aaron. It's a decent offer, takes care of the issue, but I hate to fork out more money after paying for the lifetime service on the the T60 (not that it'll last forever). The other downside, as mentioned by others, is losing all your preferences and ratings. Four of five years of that is worth a lot (my T60 lost its hard drive just before the initial 90 day warranty).

I'll probably call them again and ask if they can lifetime the new unit since that's what I have (keep it with the account). I'd go with it if they'd offer me a lifetime unit/service. I don't see how that hurts them all that much and for long time customers I feel it's fair. If not, I'll probably wait till this unit actually dies. I'd go with the HD unit, but they're expensive and prices will come down over time, probably cut in half within a year or two. Aside from that there's not all that much programming available and HD DVD recorders aren't exactly in range yet.


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## stevel

If you have lifetime service now, you do NOT lose it, no matter what. It is tied to the account - period.


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## sigloxx

Super, Steve, I'll call them up. Very informative, thanks again. On to the next tivo box (hopefully).

Follow up: I did call and asked about the lifetime on the account. The lady I spoke with said that would not change and I wouldn't be charged for monthly access. The setup would be the exact same as what I have now, with a different unit, and a different access card. If I see an extra on my bill I'll correct them later.

I'd get one of three units, the Hughes HDVR2, Philips DSR7000 or Samsung SIR300.

Does anyone know if either of these units can be 'upgraded' with the $99 Tivo Home media option? 

Thanks again to everyone, this forum rules.


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## dgstivo

> _Originally posted by sigloxx _
> *Does anyone know if either of these units can be 'upgraded' with the $99 Tivo Home media option?*


DirecTV does not offer HMO for any receiver powered by TiVo. See the "Organize an HMO Request" sticky thread on this forum for more details. (And FYI, HMO is now free for Series 2 Standalone (non-DirecTV) TiVo units)


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## sigloxx

Hmmm, any way to hook up a wireless adapter to them via USB? Not sure it'd do any good other than streaming. I guess I'll read the instructions once I get the unit.


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## stevel

These boxes do not currently support use of the USB ports for anything - they are disabled. There are hacks to enable them (and in fact I have one of my DSR704s connected to a Linksys USB200M - wireless is also available), but the techniques to do so are not allowed to be discussed in this forum.


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## ByronTodd

Just wanted to reply that I did have to send back my SATT60 when they sent me a replacment DVR40. Of course, I didn't really mind cause the modem and modem controller in my SATT60 was dead - neither the internal modem nor the external modem (that had been working for 5 months) would work anymore.

But DirecTV did send me a *bill* for the unit. I'm waiting to see if my bill has a corresponding credit for the unit. If not, I'm really going to get ticked. And from past experiences, the poor ear at DirecTV that gets me in that mood will not go home happy.

PS. My DVR40 seems to be BLAZINGLY fast in comparison to the SATT60! I was used to waiting at least 30 seconds or so when trying to record a show in progres. Now, the wait is only a few seconds.


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## cvarner

My T60 is was fast when it was new (empty), but it always seems to get slower as data and other programming (Season Passes and Wish lists, etc.) are added and the full 14 days of programming data has been downloaded.


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## sigloxx

Darn, can't do anything for trying. I know the T60's are hackable as well, so I figure the newer ones would be, but I'll probably just live with it, maybe pop the T60 hard drive in it, once i figure out how to do so from other sites. I may also sell the T60 outright, without the access card (I have 4 or 5 of them but haven't been 'blanked' yet, which I'd need to do). Ah well, I'll see how the series 2 units compare to series 1. Resetting everything is going to be a drag, but not much more so than the Tivo 1 receiver issues. 

I've noted that my T60 has slowed down quite a bit lately with menu commands. I don't reboot it often, which is probably why and the unit probably needs a good hard reset every now and then. They didn't say anything about sending my unit in or giving it to the 'installer'. As far as they were concerned I could put it in a closet somewhere. The T60 used to be a lot faster though. I wonder if that's just a new thing with reboots, EPROM or RAM of the units being 'fresh'.


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## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *These boxes do not currently support use of the USB ports for anything - they are disabled. There are hacks to enable them (and in fact I have one of my DSR704s connected to a Linksys USB200M - wireless is also available), but the techniques to do so are not allowed to be discussed in this forum. *


Steve, did you attempt to copy your configuration settings (season passes, etc.) from your old Tivo to your new one?


----------



## ByronTodd

My T60 was never as fast as this DVR40 is... And I had already added back the season passes that I had on my T60.

Of course, I could just be so happy with the new unit that it's affecting my judgement...


----------



## BlankMan

Well last night I noticed my TiVo1 and TiVo2 units were hit again in the previous couple of days so the saga continues...


----------



## dwynne

I think if you went back and look, these hits seem to happen on Wednesdays most of the time. 

My once a week rebooted bad box is still going strong - knock on wood 

Dennis


----------



## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Well last night I noticed my TiVo1 and TiVo2 units were hit again in the previous couple of days so the saga continues... *


 I thought you got replacements, didn't you?


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *I thought you got replacements, didn't you? *


 Yeah. And your point is? 

I'm still going to record occurrences here for tracking purposes.

I haven't set them up yet, I'm waiting for my HR10-250 to arrive for one thing among others, then I'll do it all in one swoop.

Like I've been saying all along, I like the T60's better than the HDVR2/DVR40's so I'm in no hurry, I just can't ***** about it to DirecTV anymore because they did do something to correct the problem for me.


----------



## BrettStah

No real point, just making sure I didn't miss anything like you sending the new ones back for any reason, etc. I figured you had sent the old ones back by now...


----------



## PJO1966

When I first read BlankMan's post I thought it was his replacement TiVo's that got hit. I was very disturbed by that. 

Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## BlankMan

I'm not sending the old ones back, I'm going to fight that tooth and nail, I never agreed to send them back so that will not happen. I'm hoping someday this will be fixed and I can go back to using the T60's.

Moving the entertainment center to get at the wiring is a *****, so I don't want to do that twice in short order.

The new DVR40's will become TiVo5, TiVo6 and TiVo7, TiVo1, TiVo2 and Tivo3 are the T60's, TiVo4 is the HDVR2. I even have stickers on them and on the remotes, even though I use an MX-700, I just did that in case to keep everything straight.


----------



## BlankMan

dwynne's post got me to thinking that this might once again have something to do with the channel/transponder shuffling going on to bring on new locals. If it happens a lot on Wednesday's and they're bringing locals online on Thursday's, it kind of fits. 

June 17th brought on locals, June 16th was a Wednesday, June 10th brought on local, June 9th was a Wednesday, I don't recall was June 3rd or 4th the first one? I also see June 24th is slated to bring on locals and June 23rd is a Wednesday once again.


----------



## Mark Lopez

> _Originally posted by dwynne _
> *I think if you went back and look, these hits seem to happen on Wednesdays most of the time.
> *


FWIW, mine almost always get hit on a Sat or Sun night.


----------



## TV addict

From late December until mid Feburary my 4 DTiVos got hit quite often. One would get hit about once per week. Rebooting did not prevent it from happening again. One unit got hit one day, and I rebooted it to get it working. The same unit got hit the next day.

From mid Feburary until early June I only got hit two times.

But in the last 2 weeks I got hit 3 times. The 3 times were on 3 different units. The last 2 times were last Saturday and Wednesday.


----------



## Brad H

I've had a Phillips DTivo for several years and I've never experienced the problem of my fav channels being erased...until now. I guess it made me feel a little better that I saw that this subject was the first thread when I logged on to the forum. 

For the record, this happened to me overnight last Wednesday and I first noticed it Thursday morning. Can someone bring me up to date as to any current info regarding this issue (so I don't have to go back and read all the pages of posts)?


----------



## stevel

I suppose it would be good if the initial post had an "executive summary" edited in.

- There is no fix available
- DirecTV has no clue if or when a fix would be made avaiable - they are now, at least, sometimes acknowledging that they know about the problem
- If you complain enough, they'll likely offer to replace your S1 boxes with S2 boxes that don't have this problem. They will ask for a $49 fee, but sometimes they'll waive it.


----------



## Brad H

Interesting. Two questions:

1. Any idea why I've never had this issue arise for the years I've had my S1 box until now?

2. Will the S2 box elimintate the problem?


----------



## cvarner

Answers:
1) Nobody has been able to determine specifically what causes the issue, and there is no way to predict when or if it will happen; it seems to be random, but your case is somewhat strange in that it has never happened until now. Unfortunately, it will probably happen to you again at some point, but there seems to be no rhyme or reason to the occurrences.
2) Yes.


----------



## stevel

I think that the cause was identified a long time ago, but it has never been revealed to us. Some at DirecTV have told me that a fix for this was intended to be in a 3.0.1C software update that also fixes the cosmetic bug of the "acquiring guide data" message. The C update was rolled out to S2 boxes, but they found a problem with S1 bixes that stalled the release, and there it sits. I do not, however, take the notion that they were about to roll out a fix for this without a healthy dose of skepticism.

TiVoPony told me at the con that he had had his "wrist slapped" for making any sort of comments that suggest a particular DTiVo bug is a software problem, as that puts a burden on DirecTV. So he very carefully is non-committal about such things nowadays. I understand entirely, I've encountered this in my own work world.


----------



## Brad H

Is there some method for obtaining a replacement S2 for no charge, and will this require that I send back the original S1 before they send the new one (I can't live without my TIVO!!!)?

That would be cool if I could get a S2 for free!


----------



## ByronTodd

> _Originally posted by Brad H _
> *Is there some method for obtaining a replacement S2 for no charge, and will this require that I send back the original S1 before they send the new one (I can't live without my TIVO!!!)?
> 
> That would be cool if I could get a S2 for free! *


I got mine free... You have to call DirecTV and talk to a Tivo specialist who may or may not *know* of this problem. But make sure that you tell them that it IS a known problem - and don't back down. Then tell them that your local cable company is offering you a DVR for the cable service for free if you switch away from DirecTV. This, of course, could be NOT true (hey, if they can be obtuse about not knowing of this problem, then I can be obtuse about what my local cable company may or may not do!)

You might have to offer that you would commit to one year's of service. When I made that committment, I was given a replacment order # before I was ready.

That should do it. If done this way, you might have to send back your unit after the replacement is installed - I did have to send my SATT60 back - though BlankMan was not asked for his back SATT60s back.

HTH!


----------



## stevel

I didn't have to talk about cable companies - but the fact that I had been calling about this problem for many months helped. You will be required to send back your old receivers if they make you this offer. You will get a refurbished box of a random brand. BlankMan seems to have lucked into a different situation where they just sent him three new, retail-packaged boxes without asking. He had really worked hard trying to get DirecTV to own up to the problem, so I'd say he earned it.


----------



## Brad H

Thanks for the info guys. Refurbished, huh ... I wouldn't be happy unless it's brand new. Oh well..


----------



## Boogety

Joined this forum just because of this problem. Have been politely beeyatching and carping to DTV CS folks for six-seven months now, and having followed this thread for the last few months, I finally decided to see what I could accomplish on my end. Armed with the knowledge gleaned from all you good people, instead of going through the normal CS channels (800-DIRECTV) I called the Customer Retention Line (800-600-8977) and spoke to a very nice young lady, who heard my complaints (losing channels/favorites, losing program choices, happening over and over, have you heard about this, some of your customers have had boxes swapped out...) and she offered the following without prompting:

-DTV is "_no longer swapping out T60s for S2 boxes_" as of two weeks ago. (!?!)

-She had me check out the software version of my box (3.1.0b-02-1-011) and as soon as I got to the "0b" part she said "that's the problem. There is a new software version, 3.1.1, coming from TiVo which will solve the problem."

-When I asked "when" she said "soon, no guarantees, but soon." I asked how long they had known of this problem, and she said "the new software is being downloaded by TiVo since _February 2004_, and they will get to all the boxes "soon." She was quite adamant that it was NOT DTV, but TiVo that was the problem.

I already have five DTV boxes (1 TiVo, 1 HD, three normal boxes) and a one-year commitment (seven months to go) due to another, satisfactorily resolved, issue I had with DTV. When I demanded some sort of accommodation for my lack of full service from my box, she immediately offered six months of Showtime. I told her I would accept it only if this problem was addressed within a reasonable (unspecified by me) period of time. She said that was the best she could do, but actually had the brass to ask me for my email address, with the promise that if anything changed or she received more information, she would call or email me with a more favorable response (I'm turning blue holding my breath  ...but at least she was nice enough to try to get me to believe her). I took the 6 months, better than nothing, but still... just thought I'd let you all know my experience.


----------



## stevel

Re: refurbished - doesn't bother me. Refurbished boxes are less likely to suffer infant mortality

Re: 3.1.1 - the rep was confused. That's a S2 version. There WAS a 3.1.0c version planned, but it got shelved for undislosed reasons. It's unclear to me if it will ever be released, nor if it actually fixes this problem.

No longer swapping, eh?


----------



## Barmat

Well add me to the list. I lost my favorite list for the first time on my Philips some time saturday or early sunday. I don't think I'll beg Directv for a replacement though. What I realy want is HMO for my S2. Oh well, a guy can dream can't he.


----------



## LBCABob

My 2nd DSR6000 has started having this problem just recently. The first time or two, I just reset the list and went on. It did it again this week and the Guide Data was corrupted bad enough not to record some SP's.

My original DSR6000 is unaffected (yet?).

Called DirecTV, got to Amber in Tech Support who acknowledged they know about the problem, put notes on my account and offered me zilch for my trouble.

The unit has an extended Circuit City warranty and they tell me send it to Philips for repair, pay for it myself, fax them the bill and they'll reimburse me. Philips wants $250 to swap it with another DSR6000 or send it in and pay $80 basic repair fee (no disk replacement). Of course, they'll likely either (a) say there's nothing wrong with it and send it back or (b) send me another unit that easily could have the same problem.

So, I either have to suffer through this hoping it will be fixed someday or just pay $99 for a new Series II. I'm leaning toward the latter.


----------



## stevel

Swapping it for another DSR6000 won't help - it's a software problem and DirecTV knows it. Don't waste your time with Philips.


----------



## Paul_D

Here is a snippet from the HDTiVo thread on an issue with HDNet audio dropouts. Hopefully I don't get this guy in trouble, but perhaps we try this route??



> I finally got annoyed by loosing audio 20 min into Odyssey 5 I rang D* to complain. I got put through to 2 level support. The tech gave the same "first I've heard about" line everyone else has reported. I said this was quite improbable given the number of people who claim to be ringing in about it.
> 
> I offered to point him towards this thread. He said he'd have to use his supervisors computer to get to TCF. After a look through here he seemed to be convinced there was a problem. He explained the system needed 5 different complaints before its escalated. At least 5 people here claimed to have reported this issue.
> 
> I asked him if he were willing to give his name and extension, and I'd see if I could russle up 5 people with the issue. He described the system there that makes it very difficult to actually get through to a particular person. (There are 3 call centres and you don't know which you're getting and they can't transfer between centres.)
> 
> If you're having audio dropouts, you could try calling Jeremy on 800 695 9251 x 23657, you should find him in the Idaho call center M-F 2-11pm mountain time. Be nice to him, he seems to be convinced there's a problem and wants to escalate it. The more calls that can be concentrated in one place, the more weight he should be able to put behind the problem.


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## GuidoTKP

the number he gave you is called his aspect number and there are only a few and I mean a few who know how to transfer between aspect numbers,and judging by the number he is really new so you can try if you want but....on the other hand there is now a download going out that is supposed to help with this prob, it started yesterday just make sure your units are calling out and you should get if you don't get it soon then reset and you should get it within 24 hrs, I don't remember what version number it will show when you get the download but it is supposed to help


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by GuidoTKP _
> *the number he gave you is called his aspect number and there are only a few and I mean a few who know how to transfer between aspect numbers,and judging by the number he is really new so you can try if you want but....on the other hand there is now a download going out that is supposed to help with this prob, it started yesterday just make sure your units are calling out and you should get if you don't get it soon then reset and you should get it within 24 hrs, I don't remember what version number it will show when you get the download but it is supposed to help *


 Guido Thanks! Really?? A new version is finally downloading for S1 DTiVo's??? WooHa!


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## cvarner

I'll believe it when I see it.


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *I suppose it would be good if the initial post had an "executive summary" edited in.
> 
> - There is no fix available
> - DirecTV has no clue if or when a fix would be made avaiable - they are now, at least, sometimes acknowledging that they know about the problem
> - If you complain enough, they'll likely offer to replace your S1 boxes with S2 boxes that don't have this problem. They will ask for a $49 fee, but sometimes they'll waive it. *


 Done. Been Vac'n it at Milwaukee's Summerfest so I wasn't checking in until today.


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## GuidoTKP

> _Originally posted by cvarner _
> *I'll believe it when I see it. *


Dont care if you beleive it or not, just letting blankman know,I probably should have just pm'd him


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## GuidoTKP

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Guido Thanks! Really?? A new version is finally downloading for S1 DTiVo's??? WooHa! *


Your welcme Blankman,Hope it helps out.


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## PJO1966

> _Originally posted by GuidoTKP _
> *Dont care if you beleive it or not, just letting blankman know,I probably should have just pm'd him *


Thanks for the update Guido...


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## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by GuidoTKP _
> *Your welcme Blankman,Hope it helps out. *


 Forced calls don't help, as usual. Darn. I knew that... But....


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## GuidoTKP

just be patient...


----------



## PJO1966

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Forced calls don't help, as usual. Darn. I knew that... But.... *


I think D*TV has a little note that states BlankMan will be the ABSOLUTE LAST PERSON to receive this update.  Although he deserves to be the first with all the hours he committed to this problem.


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## Markman07

His picture is in the Employee's break room!


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I think D*TV has a little note that states BlankMan will be the ABSOLUTE LAST PERSON to receive this update.  Although he deserves to be the first with all the hours he committed to this problem. *


 LOL


> _Originally posted by Markman07 _
> *His picture is in the Employee's break room!  *


 Dartboard I bet... I been getting these sharp pains in my head....


----------



## cvarner

> _Originally posted by GuidoTKP _
> *Dont care if you beleive it or not, just letting blankman know,I probably should have just pm'd him *


My comment wasn't directed at you, Guido.
I'm pessimistic, because we've heard from several people in the past that new software was on the way to fix this, but so far it hasn't been the case.


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## PJO1966

I'm prone to believe Guido... He is a tech for D*TV


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## BlankMan

Yeah, after a rocky start, Guido has been doing what he can to get information on this issue so I have no reason to doubt him.


----------



## Budget_HT

> _Originally posted by GuidoTKP _
> *the number he gave you is called his aspect number and there are only a few and I mean a few who know how to transfer between aspect numbers,and judging by the number he is really new so you can try if you want but....on the other hand there is now a download going out that is supposed to help with this prob, it started yesterday just make sure your units are calling out and you should get if you don't get it soon then reset and you should get it within 24 hrs, I don't remember what version number it will show when you get the download but it is supposed to help *


Thanks for the good news!

I'll be watching my series 1 SAT-T60 for the update.


----------



## BJBBJB

I had almost given up on this.....

I looked at the thread but could not find the answer. Does anyone know, definitively, which software version is supposed to fix this? I refuse to setup my favorites yet again without knowing for sure what version I am looking for.
Is it the "C" version that was held up?

Thanks,
BJBBJB


----------



## TiVoStephen

Hi folks,

First off, apologies again to anyone who has been inconvenienced by this issue. DIRECTV is definitely aware of the issue and has been working with TiVo to try to understand the issue better and to release a fix.

Starting today, version 3.1.0c is being released for Series1 units. It will take several weeks before all Series1 units receive the latest release. While we are all hopeful that the issue is fixed with version 3.1.0c, we would like to pay close attention and be sure that this issue does not recur.

The problem with the losing favorites issue has been that the issue occurs infrequently, and is hard to reproduce in our labs. So, after studying the problem for a while, we now need some more help from you. We would like to create a group of units that have had this issue occur more frequently that we can authorize to download specialized software which includes additional logging to help us track this problem down.

We're looking for people who've experienced the issue more than once to assist us with coming up with potential solutions. If you are selected to participate we will be inviting you to participate in the Favorites "Beta" Program. This will enable us to collect data from you and your DVRs on this issue in an efficient manner. If you have had this issue occur to you more than once or twice, and you think it will happen to you again, can you please click on the link and fill out the survey: 
http://beta.tivo.com/favsignup.htm

FYI, if you join the monitoring group, we'll be receiving your logs for the duration of the development. However, there is no personal viewing information stored in these logs -- only diagnostic information. At no point is your viewing information anything other than anonymous. That's our policy in general as well; the only thing that changes if you join the monitoring group is that we'll automatically make sure to collect your diagnostic logs every time your unit connects to the TiVo Service, whereas normally diagnostic logs are only sampled.

Best regards,
Stephen 
On behalf of TiVo and DIRECTV

P.S. BlankMan, it'd be great if you point to this post from the beginning of the thread. Thanks!


----------



## BlankMan

I'm signed up.

Go figure, eh?


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr _
> *P.S. BlankMan, it'd be great if you point to this post from the beginning of the thread. Thanks! *


 Done. And I placed it at the top of the OP so there should be less chance of it being missed.


----------



## stevel

I assume that everyone is aware that losing "Favorites" is the least part of the problem - it's the loss of "Channels You Receive" that is the killer...


----------



## BrettStah

TiVoOpsMgr, stevel brings up a good point... hopefully the problem that you guys are addressing will not only prevent the loss of the Favorites list (pretty minor issue), but also the issue where most/all of the Channels I Receive list is wiped out, requiring a reboot to restore. Until a reboot occurs, recordings on the lost channels don't happen, which is obviously a lot more serious than just losing a list of favorite channels.


----------



## BlankMan

I think the problem is one in the same, the channels get removed from the Favorites List because they disappear from the CHannels I Receive list, that is the precursor.


----------



## GuidoTKP

> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I'm prone to believe Guido... He is a tech for D*TV *


Actually I just moved over to the installation support department but I'm still a tech at heart  The download is being done by time zone and should be totally rolled out by July 7th, Don't know why they did it by time zone sounds kind stupid to me but hey you cant have everything


----------



## GuidoTKP

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *LOL Dartboard I bet... I been getting these sharp pains in my head.... *


 Yup we have your pic in all 3 break rooms and the cafeteria even have a wanted dead or alive poster


----------



## PJO1966

Can anyone confirm that they have received the update? I'm basically just curious at this point. I don't even use my Series 1 to record anymore. I'm just slowly making my way through the recordings that have been on there for 2 or 3 years so it can go on eBay.


----------



## jDot

When I got home last night my Series 1 was "Pending restart". I went ahead and restarted it and lo and behold - I had the 'C' update. I haven't noticed any differences other than the bogus "Acquiring data..." message is gone. I've only lost my CIR on 2 occasions, the last time about 4-5 months ago, so this unit is a bad one to test with^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h with which to test. I hope those who see the problem more frequently get the update soon and that it finally solves the problem.


----------



## stevel

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *I think the problem is one in the same, the channels get removed from the Favorites List because they disappear from the CHannels I Receive list, that is the precursor. *


 My experience says otherwise - I have seen the Favorites list disappear without the Receive list being touched.


----------



## TiVoStephen

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *hopefully the problem that you guys are addressing will not only prevent the loss of the Favorites list (pretty minor issue), but also the issue where most/all of the Channels I Receive list is wiped out, requiring a reboot to restore.*


 Absolutely! My understanding is that both symptoms are believed to be caused by the same root issue.


----------



## BlankMan

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> *My experience says otherwise - I have seen the Favorites list disappear without the Receive list being touched. *


 Usually when my Favorites are gone I looked in the Channels I Receive list and they were gone from there too. Sometimes when I didn't catch it right away (i.e. same or next day) I would look at the Channels I Receive list and it looked fine. I've even caught it twice in progress and watched the channels disappear from the Favorites list right before my eyes. So a couple times I didn't reboot and did not setup the Favorites list and later when I checked the Channels I Receive list it once again looked fine so my theory is that it gets rebuilt and thus looks like it didn't get hit, but only because I didn't catch it in the time window before it got rebuilt. But, that is only my theory, next time it happens I'll try it again to be sure, see if the channel is missing from the Channels I Receive list and then see if it comes back on it's own and see if I can pin down a time frame in which this rebuild occurs.


----------



## Paul_D

> _Originally posted by stevel _
> My experience says otherwise - I have seen the Favorites list disappear without the Receive list being touched.


Actually, all of my events have been that the Favorites list gets wiped out and *ALL* the channels in the Receive list are checked. Annoying when you have WishLists that then try to record something off of the east coast feed channels...

BTW, both of my units (DSR6000r and SAT T-60) got the C rev last night. Seems like new logos came with the update. And yes, given that I get hit pretty regularly (I've had to create a "cheat sheet" for what to set in CIR and Favorites), I signed up for the monitoring software beta.


----------



## stevel

> _Originally posted by Paul_D _
> *Actually, all of my events have been that the Favorites list gets wiped out and ALL the channels in the Receive list are checked.. *


 That's what I recall happening as well, though I also had the Receive list niuked.

DirecTV replaced my receivers, so I'm following this thread just because I'm still interested - guess I got in at the tail end of that offer and they finally got the C update out the door. Let's hope it works.


----------



## stivovance

Same deal with me. when my favorites are gone so are my channel I receive, wouldn't be so bad if it was only the favorites as I can program them fairly easy, it's trying to remember what channels that I actually care to watch and actually do receive. If only there were a way for them to pull off the subscription information from the access card to auto-fill the receive channels.


----------



## BJBBJB

To clarify my experience.
I can verify that each of the times each of my TIVO series one units lost their favorites, ALL channels were selected in channels I receive after the favorites went away. So I do not think I lost any programming. Of course until I corrected it, it did list channels that I knew I did not receive as being received. However, it did not delete channels from the list that I had setup to record from. Did my unit reboot *without my knowledge* between the time that my favorites went away and I checked? I do not know.

I do know that at the end of the day, when I notice it, all favorites gone, all channels received checked.


BJBBJB


----------



## Rebounder

Well, the problem happened to me yet again tonight. I called DirecTV, and was encouraged that their CSR was very aware of the situation and said they were working on trying to find a solution. When I inquired about the 3.1.0c update, he explained that the Sony T-60 boxes are scheduled to receive the update the morning of July 5th, so I guess I have no choice but to reset the receiver, once again plug in my wishlist, season pass and channel information and hope that it doesn't happen again.

When I called, I did ask DirecTV to replace my Series 1 box since it was a software issue on their end that they've been unable to resolve, and not the fault of my own equipment. They declined to do so, indicating that a software fix was coming soon. I'm taking that to mean the 3.1.0c update, so I'll be patient just a little while longer. Gotta confess though, if this update doesn't fix the problem, and DirecTV refuses to replace my equipment, then I'm seriously giving thought to initiating some kind of class action litigation against DirecTV. I have NO desire to go to this extent, but given that I'm locked into a service agreement with DirecTV (as a result of taking advantage of the "movers" program) and can't just cancel the service, I'm at wits end. I know the DirecTV & Tivo techies are working faithfully on finding a fix, but if this fix doesn't work and DirecTV continues their refusal to replace my Series 1 box, then I see class action litigation as a last resort.


----------



## BrettStah

Rebounder, just restart it, don't wipe everything out.


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## dwynne

My "bad box" was hit again yesterday - again on a Wednesday. It happened before 1pm (CDT) since it didn't record anything after that time.

I can't remember if I rebooted on Sunday or not, I was so busy I wonder if I forgot? Anyway, all faves were gone and about all I had under channels I receive was a bunch of "DTV" entries. A quick reboot fixed it as always, then the hassle of un-check on the cr*p I don't like or don't get, then re-picking the faves.

I do not have the new "c" software yet and the box is a Philips series 1.

Dennis


----------



## Mark Lopez

Wow, I'm glad I popped back in here. One of my units just lost everything again last Friday. This is definitely good news.


----------



## richieZ

a memo from work.

Some dvr's that were experiencing guide problems are getting a download. the first time zone to get the download is mountain time. it will be around 2am, june 28. the new version will be 3.1.0c (as opposed to the newer models that get upgraded to 3.1.1c)

download is for hns gxcebot gxcebotd, philips dsr6000r, and sony sat-t60. this will fix the "acquiring program guide....full data in 1-2 days" and the loss of the guide.

if in mountain time, process occurs jun 28 (pre-dawn hours)
if in other time zones, process occurs jul 5 (pre-dawn hours)

if upgrade is not complete by jul 7, reset. upgrade should occur within next 24 hours.

see.... if all goes well, and it won't, which is why i have my job, heh, this problem will be going away soon.


----------



## mrsparkle

This firmware update is certainly good news, and I hope it solves the myriad problems I've experienced with this otherwise INDISPENSIBLE product. My Hughes Series I box has the erroneous "gathering data from the satellite" message, along with three distinctly different manifestations of the problem being discussed in this thread.

1. I've had all the favorites unchecked, with all the channels I receive checked. A minor annoyance, as most of you have stated.

2. I've had all the favorites unchecked, AND all the channnels I receive unchecked. This is more than a minor annoyance.

3. The worst manifestation, though, is where most of the channels I receive actually disappear from the channels I receive list. Never mind check marks, there are only four or five channels available to check! This requires a reboot and then a waiting period until the To-Do list rebuilds itself. Shows will be missed during this time period and I must manually force the machine to record items that air within the following several hours.

This has happened to me about 9 or 10 times over the past year-and-a-half or so, and I have gladly volunteered my prime-candidate-of-a-unit to beta test anything TiVo or DTV wants.


----------



## stevel

Yes, all of the symptoms you describe are supposedly fixed by the new update.


----------



## BlankMan

My TiVo1 unit got hit over the 4th of July weekend again, and I think TiVo2 was hit last week. I'm not tracking it as closely lately, too busy lately.

But I also noticed my TiVo3 rebooted itself on the 5th but no new code. And for some reason TiVoWeb won't bring up the Phone page on any of the three. Not sure why.


----------



## PJO1966

I forced a call yesterday and got my update. The nagging screen about acquiring data is gone. I won't know if it blows away channels anymore as I don't record on the SD TiVo anymore. I called a friend to check to see if he got the update. His TiVo had called in earlier that day, but he did not have the pending restart message. He forced the call and pending restart popped up. It's strange that it didn't pick up the update on the regular call.


----------



## BlankMan

Here we go I guess, just saw this in the logs on TiVo1:

Jul 7 10:14:33 (none) comm[121]: NewSoftware: software is not active, new software will be installed at 02:00.

Also am seeing this which is the current time:

Jul 7 18:32:16 (none) WatchdogAction[120]: WatchdogAction::Trigger: callActive for 29700 interval-secs

Probably explains why the TiVoWeb Phone interface is not working. Off to check the logs on the other two...

So, since I was dead last on the upgrade list everyone else has it by now, right?


----------



## sulli2p

Thanks PJO. The forced call just worked for me too. The download was quick, a restart loaded the software and my "acquiring data" nag screen is gone too. Let's hope our "delete all channels" issue is also fixed, only time will tell.



> _Originally posted by PJO1966 _
> *I forced a call yesterday and got my update. The nagging screen about acquiring data is gone. I won't know if it blows away channels anymore as I don't record on the SD TiVo anymore. I called a friend to check to see if he got the update. His TiVo had called in earlier that day, but he did not have the pending restart message. He forced the call and pending restart popped up. It's strange that it didn't pick up the update on the regular call. *


----------



## BlankMan

Yep. Sure enough eh there one time, TiVo2 is reporting this:

Jul 7 11:57:00 (none) comm[120]: NewSoftware: software is not active, new software will be installed at 02:00.

Along with this as the current time:

Jul 7 18:41:05 (none) WatchdogAction[119]: WatchdogAction::Trigger: callActive for 24300 interval-secs

And TiVo3 not wanting to be left out I guess is reporting this:

Jul 7 16:12:04 (none) comm[120]: NewSoftware: software is not active, new software will be installed at 02:00.

Also along with this as the current time

Jul 7 18:38:04 (none) WatchdogAction[119]: WatchdogAction::Trigger: callActive for 9000 interval-secs

So it looks like for what ever the reason it's keeping the connection open which is probably giving the TiVoWeb Phone interface fits.

Now to see what the Phone Screen on the TV looks like.


----------



## BlankMan

Yep TiVo1 is reporting _Pending Restart_ so I guess when I get home tonight I'll do a reboot on one or all.

Time to pull the disks again. Anyone know if there are any gotcha's with "C" and Ethernet, ftp, telent, TiVoWeb, etc.?


----------



## dwynne

I forced a call on my bad box last night and nothing new for me. If it is not pending restart when I get home I will force another call. 

Reading richieZ's message I got the impression that they would be sending this down from space (which would be new, wouldn't it?) or forcing the affected boxes to call him. D* now has mine call in just every few days so I didn't understand how the date when the update would be sent could be known.

Dennis


----------



## dougwx12

Forgive me for only wading through the first 15 pages of this thread to see if this information is redundant, but I had the opportunity to watch this bug happen last week (it's happened to me at least a dozen times so far, but this was the first time I was watching _live_ TV when it occurred.)

The Tivo interrupted live TV with an error message of the form " ... must reacquire satellite ...". It then went away for about 10 minutes, came back, and gave an error about not being able to reacquire the satellites, and asked me if I wanted it to retry. Multiple retry attempts failed. Satellite signal strengths were whacked, to say the least. Many sub-50, many 0. The Tivo was unusable for live TV during this whole time, though the guide still had data. I left it alone for awhile (a few hours, but I wasn't monitoring it), and when I came back, the guide data was in its usual empty state.

As usual, restarting cleared it right up, and brought my signal strength numbers back into their normal 80-90 range. I'd worry about my cable run having gotten messed up, but it seems an odd coincidence that I get the exact same symptoms listed in this thread this summer, and I've never had an issue before...


----------



## dwynne

> _Originally posted by dougwx12 _
> *The Tivo interrupted live TV with an error message of the form " ... must reacquire satellite ...". It then went away for about 10 minutes, came back, and gave an error about not being able to reacquire the satellites, and asked me if I wanted it to retry. Multiple retry attempts failed. Satellite signal strengths were whacked, to say the least. Many sub-50, many 0. The Tivo was unusable for live TV during this whole time, though the guide still had data. *


This does not match with what happens to my DTivo. I was watching it once when it happened and it said something like "You do not receive this channel" on a black screen. I could tune around and some would be still working and some would be gone. Checking the "channels I receive" setup showed them missing from there - they could not be checked as they were just gone. When it gets really bad, when you check there all I have is a bunch of "DTV" channels. Those DO come in if I tune to them.

When this first happened to me I figured I had rain fade or the wind had mis-aligned the dish so I check sat strength. It was just fine - no problems. The reboot fixed it, but I never "lost the sats".

Sounds like you have another problem.

FYI, I did not have the "c" update last night when I got home so I forced a daily call and now I have it. We will see if it fixes the problem or not.

Dennis


----------



## GuidoTKP

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Here we go I guess, just saw this in the logs on TiVo1:
> 
> Jul 7 10:14:33 (none) comm[121]: NewSoftware: software is not active, new software will be installed at 02:00.
> 
> Also am seeing this which is the current time:
> 
> Jul 7 18:32:16 (none) WatchdogAction[120]: WatchdogAction::Trigger: callActive for 29700 interval-secs
> 
> Probably explains why the TiVoWeb Phone interface is not working. Off to check the logs on the other two...
> 
> So, since I was dead last on the upgrade list everyone else has it by now, right?  *


You know it


----------



## skellum

this post has been redirected to the appropriate forum.

thanks,

- skellum


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## BrettStah

Check the underground forum, skellum.


----------



## dwynne

I have the "c" software upgrade, but I wonder if I got hit again yesterday on my bad box - but with different symptoms?

I flipped over to where it was supposed to be recording a show last night and the picture/video was out of sync, then frozen. Weird stuff. So I went into now playing and checked the recordings from earlier in the day. A show that started at 1pm (CDT) for an hour only had 48 minutes recorded (based on the green bar on the screen - but didn't say partial). The next show (2pm CDT) had no video. When I played that show I had the audio, but the screen showed the Tivo backdrop (now playing, but without overlays). When I hit fast forward it moved about 10x the normal speed - never any video. I checked to later recordings and had the same thing - the only difference was the show that was recording at that time had about 2-3 minutes of video on the end. I deleted all the hosed stuff and restarted and recorded 2-3 more shows w/o a problem.

Before the channels would go away and recording would stop ("not available") - now it is recording the audio only once it hoses.

Anyone else have anything similar - or is this year another new problem?

Dennis


----------



## PJO1966

There is a thread in here about this problem. I think you basically need to unplug your TiVo then plug it back in. This won't help what's already been recorded but apparently it prevents the problem from happening again.


----------



## bgreen5

> _Originally posted by TiVoOpsMgr _
> *
> ...
> 
> Starting today, version 3.1.0c is being released for Series1 units. It will take several weeks before all Series1 units receive the latest release. While we are all hopeful that the issue is fixed with version 3.1.0c, we would like to pay close attention and be sure that this issue does not recur.
> 
> ...
> 
> P.S. BlankMan, it'd be great if you point to this post from the beginning of the thread. Thanks! *





> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Done. And I placed it at the top of the OP so there should be less chance of it being missed. *


Too bad we can't plaster it all over every single page of this thread!  (I just came back to the last page to check status, couldn't make much sense of it, went back 7 or 8 pages and started reading from there... only to find out that I should have simply gone back to page 1 and read the OP!!!) 

Anyways, glad to finally see some action on the part of DirecTV/TiVo.

2 of my DirecTiVo units which are currently powered display the 'c' software revision.

Series I Philips (black): 3.1.0c...
Series I Hughes (silver): 3.1.1c...

Does this sound right? (why the difference between the Philips and the Hughes?) I never checked the previous software versions, but it seems they've both been upgraded since the last time I checked in and reported that the bug had hit me for the first time.

Interestingly, neither upgrade resulted in any kind of message under TiVoCentral (or DVRCentral now, I guess) that an upgrade had occurred. Guess they wanted to keep this one quiet?


----------



## BrettStah

Some people are reporting some weird recording issues and suspect it's related to this upgrade:
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=184013


----------



## Fofer

Can anyone confirm whether or not the "channels I receive" and "favorite channels" settings are now _reliable_ with 3.1.0c / 3.1.0c2?

It takes quite a while to set those lists up and I don't want to bother if this old bug (where they get reset) remains.


----------



## dwynne

> _Originally posted by Fofer _
> *Can anyone confirm whether or not the "channels I receive" and "favorite channels" settings are now reliable with 3.1.0c / 3.1.0c2?
> 
> It takes quite a while to set those lists up and I don't want to bother if this old bug (where they get reset) remains. *


I have had 0 problems with that since the "c" upgrade. I have had ONE of occurrence of the known bug in "c" since then. The problem in "c" appears to happen only during certain conditions - a weak signal while recording - so to me the odds are better with "c" than the older software. D* has acknowledged the "c" bug and is working on a fix. The one time it happened to me we had some heavy rain storms during a time when I had a recording going - which matches what others have reported. If the rain fade makes you totally lose the signal, then it seems to recover. It has to be enough to impair it w/o dropping it completely. That coupled with it has to be recording at the time, really seems to make the odds slim of having many repeats.

Dennis


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## BrettStah

My wife reported a re-occurrence of the "Channel Not Available" bug, whereby no channels are, well, available, and thus no recordings will take place. A reboot cleared it up, as usual.


----------



## kenr

> _Originally posted by BrettStah _
> *My wife reported a re-occurrence of the "Channel Not Available" bug, whereby no channels are, well, available, and thus no recordings will take place. A reboot cleared it up, as usual. *


 3.1.0c or 3.1.0c2?


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## stevel

I have not seen the channels list problem with 3.1.1C, but then it was never supposed to be a problem with 3.1.1 (S2 DTiVo).


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## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by kenr _
> *3.1.0c or 3.1.0c2? *


3.1.0c (assuming software updates still require a phone call to activate/install... mine aren't left hooked up to a phone line).


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## TiVoStephen

BrettStah, sorry to hear that your wife's unit experienced this problem with 3.1.0c. Can you please e-mail me her 15-digit TiVo Service Number along with the date/time that the problem occurred? ([email protected])

Best regards,
Stephen


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## BrettStah

Done... email on its way.


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## BrettStah

It happened again this evening... same DirecTivo that I emailed you the Service Number for, Stephen. Previously when this problem would crop up it would tend to affect this DirecTivo more often than the other first-generation DirecTivo.


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## MauriAnne

I just lost *some* of my favorites --- only the local channels, the other ones are okay. Anyone know if this is related, or a different problem? The previous times I had a problem like this, I lost everything.

3.1.0c


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## ibbryn

dwynne, 
I have exactly the same problem you stated, along with the "channels missing from guide problem" also cited here. 
It's easily fixed by upgrading your software.


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## BlankMan

MauriAnne, it is related I do believe, sometimes all of the channels will disappear for the Favorites List, sometimes only some. When they disappear from the Favorites List they are usually also gone from the Channels I Receive list if the unit has not been rebooted. Although I have seen channels disappear from the Favorites List but were still in the Channels I Receive list by the time I caught it and looked. Not sure if the unit rebooted itself or if the Channels I Receive list just repopulated itself in those cases.


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## MauriAnne

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *MauriAnne, it is related I do believe, sometimes all of the channels will disappear for the Favorites List, sometimes only some. When they disappear from the Favorites List they are usually also gone from the Channels I Receive list if the unit has not been rebooted. Although I have seen channels disappear from the Favorites List but were still in the Channels I Receive list by the time I caught it and looked. Not sure if the unit rebooted itself or if the Channels I Receive list just repopulated itself in those cases. *


In my case, they just disappeared from Fav List -- they remained on the Receive list & since I didn't have to reset the Sort on the Playing list, I don't think there was a reboot.

<sigh> I was hoping it was really fixed. When the entire list goes away, it's just plain PAINFUL.


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## jib2

> _Originally posted by Fofer _
> *Can anyone confirm whether or not the "channels I receive" and "favorite channels" settings are now reliable with 3.1.0c / 3.1.0c2?
> 
> It takes quite a while to set those lists up and I don't want to bother if this old bug (where they get reset) remains. *


Well, I _hope_ that it is an isolated instance, but one of my 3 series 1 DTivos just lost most (but not quite all) of the channels I receive. It is running 3.1.0c2, and even has a new access card in it. (I received a new card a few weeks ago because of an unrelated problem with PPV ordering.)

All the channels I receive below 173 were gone. 173 and a few random channels above that (less than a dozen) remained. The missing channels could not be viewing in live TV either (message was "channel not available") and since they weren't in the list, I couldn't readd them. Rebooting fixed the problem for now, but I did have to reset the Channels I Receive list and the Favorites list.

I was hoping that the problem was fixed...


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## BlankMan

Sounds like it's still there then, I was starting to wonder myself. I take it they got wacked from your Favorites List when they disappeared from the Channels I Receive list?


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## jib2

> _Originally posted by BlankMan _
> *Sounds like it's still there then, I was starting to wonder myself. I take it they got wacked from your Favorites List when they disappeared from the Channels I Receive list? *


Yes. It only took five minutes (plus reboot) to restore them, but my favorites list is most of my channels received. It could easily take some people much longer...


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## Jeff Lackey

FWIW, I've recently had this problem with my Series 2 Samsung receiver - Season Pass shows no upcoming episodes, trying to set a season pass on a program on a certain channel results in the note "this channel is no longer on your list of received channels", etc. As a new user of DirecTivo this is pretty discouraging.


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## BrettStah

Jeff, what show did you have this problem with, and what was the channel it was on? My wife recently told me she had to recreate a season pass for "Monk" on USA network, because the existing one wasn't working any more. I'm assuming that some behind-the-scenes data relating to Monk and/or USA was changed. I think that's our only season pass for a show on USA so I can't really tell for sure what the problem is.


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## Jeff Lackey

I've had it a couple of times in the past week or so (we've only had the system for two weeks) but I don't recall the specific channels or shows. The problem a couple of days ago was indeed with the USA channel (and I read the thread below) but also BBC America - the specific show was What Not To Wear. When I added the channel back everything was fine again.

I don't use the Favorites option, and I have all channels set up to be received. As I said, I've had this happen occasionally in the past and thought it was just some odd quirk until I read this thread.


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## bboerner

Hi, my Series 1 activated 3.0.1c2 on 8/11.

I didn't noticed until tonight (8/18) that some recordings since
Friday (8/13) (including Monk on USA) didn't record. The 1st
available didn't record due to "Show is no longer in the program
guide.". The repeats didn't record due to the 28d rule (argh! It
didn't record so the 28d rule shouldn't apply! :-( )

First symptom I saw was that I had only about 12 or so channels
available in the guide. Did a reboot, had my channels. Then noticed
that my entire ToDo list had "None scheduled". Program Guide data
was up to 8/29.

Forced a phone call, it did the Loading Data... thing. Waited an
hour, program guide data is up to 8/30. ToDo list is mostly
populated. Had to recreate Monk SP as it thought it was for a
channel which was not in Channels I Receive.

This happened once about 2 or 3 months ago and hit the FX channel that time.

Appears that the c2 patch didn't fix this.


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## stevel

The Monk problem is separate - DirecTV screwed up the lineup info for USA effectively creating a new channel with a different name. This obsoleted the season passes you had. The solution is to recreate the SPs for USA.


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## bboerner

stevel, thanks for the clarification re: USA network, that'll save some head scratching. Regards.


----------



## BigScreen

One of my two Series 1 DTiVo's got bit by this bug again this morning.

Earlier today (8am), everything was working fine. At 11:30am, I turned on the TV to see the "This channel is not available" message on the screen. Both tuners were tuned to Ch 36, which is a channel I do receive and was watching this morning.

As expected, the Channels I Receive were reset to only those channels between 358-828. 

A reboot fixed the problem, but then one of the most painful parts of owning a DTiVo rears its ugly head; having to manually set the Channels I Receive.

(rant mode on)
This has got to be one of the dumbest omissions in the TiVo's feature set, and it's inexcusable that auto-scanning for Channels I Receive hasn't been included in the numerous software updates this box has received. My original Sony SAT-A2 box could do this, and that was what, 8-10 years ago?

The only thing that makes this omission even tolerable is the fact that it should only have to be done once. However, since this bug rears itself every couple of months, I get the joy of single-stepping through every freakin' channel DTV provides, just to tell a computer what it should be able to figure out on its own.
(rant mode off)


----------



## Fofer

> _Originally posted by BigScreen _
> *(rant mode on)
> This has got to be one of the dumbest omissions in the TiVo's feature set, and it's inexcusable that auto-scanning for Channels I Receive hasn't been included in the numerous software updates this box has received. My original Sony SAT-A2 box could do this, and that was what, 8-10 years ago?
> 
> The only thing that makes this omission even tolerable is the fact that it should only have to be done once. However, since this bug rears itself every couple of months, I get the joy of single-stepping through every freakin' channel DTV provides, just to tell a computer what it should be able to figure out on its own.
> (rant mode off) *


I'll accept that rant and raise you one quibble: how hard would it have been to label the channels properly (with full names) in the "Channels I Receive" screen? I often have a hard time deciphering some of the 4 character labels. The only way to determine if I receive the channel is to try and tune into it. And the interface for doing this is terribly slow.

Auto-scan would be great.

It would also be even nicer if DTV could auto-configure my DTiVo receiver for the channels I receive, perhaps by downloading the prefs; they should know better than me what channels I'm supposed to receive!


----------



## BigScreen

> It would also be even nicer if DTV could auto-configure my DTiVo receiver for the channels I receive, perhaps by downloading the prefs; they should know better than me what channels I'm supposed to receive!


I hadn't thought of that, but it makes perfect sense. It would be easier if the box were connected via ethernet, but it could get this information during a daily phone call and save it to the drive for later use. That's a better idea than mine of at least saving the last "Channels I Receive" set and make it able to be retrieved upon command.

After all, doesn't the box already know what channels I'm capable of receiving? Otherwise, how would it know not to tune in some channel I don't get?

Someone should create a list of features like this that will likely never see the light of day...


----------



## stevel

The information is already available in the satellite bitstream - non-TiVo DirecTV receivers know it. It baffles me that DTiVos don't.


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## sulli2p

My first hit with 3.1.0c2, and it was a classic. As indicated by a stopped recording, it happened on 09/01/04 at 1:49pm CDT. All channels deleted except for a couple PPVs. A restart returned all my channels but favorite list was gone. This is EXACTLY the same symptoms I had prior to any "c" updates.


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## cth1770

Running 3.1.1c on two Hughes boxes, all of my ESPN season passes are zapped. Instead of an SP appearing in the SP manager as, say, "9) Pardon the Interruption (206 ESPN)", they are now appearing as "9) Pardon the Interruption (ESPN)", with no channel number, as if the channel no longer exists.

This happened on both boxes, but ESPN still appears in my Favorites list. I had to go back and program new SPs on the "new" channel.


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## rsempsey

Well....I wish I would have read this thread yesterday afternoon. Only had DTivo for 2 weeks and it hit me. Just thought it was a fluke.....but guess not. Called DTV, and tried all their stuff.....still haven't gotten local channels back. They are sending a technician out to me....Whoopie! Not sure what he is gonna be able to do......Don't understand why the reboot or the Delete all didn't bring back the missing channels???


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## Degauss

My turn. Sonofabit... DVR40, 3.1.1c, virginal and hackless

The weird part is I don't know when or where it started. Until it skipped a recording event I wouldn't have noticed. When I had my WHATINHELL?! moment I surfed the guide and there were tons of channels missing from I Receive, ergo not even selectable for Favorites... but channels that I never cared about anyway and wouldn't have noticed.

I'm with whoever said it was D* doing it intentionally. So much of their revenue is probably from PPV movies and sporting events that for those of us that filter them all out won't ever just flip past one or see it in the guide and do an impulse buy, so they screw up our lists for fun. YEEH BOUIE

I guess I don't need to add my anger. almost 1000 replies and 50k views? Yep angry is covered.


----------



## bllreed

Just to let everyone know, it's Not a TIVO problem. I've had the same thing
happen on a Sony SAT-50A (if I remember the model correctly) which is just
a receiver, no TIVO. Take some solace in that, I guess....


----------



## Tutman

No, it's not a TIVO problem. It is a DirecTV problem. Unfortunately, TIVO writes the software for the machines, and apparently this problem IS caused by a software malfunction. If your hardware does not use TIVO software, then the software has the same type of problem. However, hardware would have been replaced long ago if it was the cause.


----------



## Tutman

So, is this problem back in 3.1.0c2? Sulli2p seems to think it is. Anyone else have this problem?

I've been on 3.1.0c (original c version) since it came out. I have had absolutely NO favorite channel list problems since. I have had the audio/no-video problem a couple times during storms though. I figured I'd wait until both problems were fixed before plugging the phone line back in.


----------



## Fofer

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *So, is this problem back in 3.1.0c2? Sulli2p seems to think it is. Anyone else have this problem?
> 
> I've been on 3.1.0c (original c version) since it came out. I have had absolutely NO favorite channel list problems since. I have had the audio/no-video problem a couple times during storms though. I figured I'd wait until both problems were fixed before plugging the phone line back in. *


Personally I'd rather lose my "Favorite Channels" occasionally than worry about which recordings would be watchable or not when I got home.

I don't even bother setting my Fav Channels anymore, it's too much of a hassle for not much gain, and its annoying when that work is lost.


----------



## dcluck

Well, this evening makes for the 5th time our Sony T-60 has been hit with this bug in the past year. Running 3.1.0c2. Guess they still haven't nailed down the issue. My wife noticed that the unit wasn't recording when it should have been so she checked and all of our channels I recieve were missing except for a few in the 600s. All SPs are hosed and will have to be setup again. Great timing with the new season starting.

~Dave


----------



## Tutman

> _Originally posted by Fofer _
> *Personally I'd rather lose my "Favorite Channels" occasionally than worry about which recordings would be watchable or not when I got home.
> 
> I don't even bother setting my Fav Channels anymore, it's too much of a hassle for not much gain, and its annoying when that work is lost. *


To each his own. Since I rarely have rain fade, that I know when a storm is in the area, and that I may miss that recording because of a lost signal anyway, I'll take my chances with this one rather than being hit by the lost channels bug.

Losing favorite channels is a pain, but when it happens I typically lose all of my scheduled recordings (since locals are lost too). When this happens is unpredictable. Weather, on the other hand, is predictable.

I have 2 dsr6000's and I have not gone without losing favorite channels for this long in a really long time. It seems to me that 3.1.0c fixed the favorite channels bug, but introduced the audio/no-video bug. When they rolled out 3.1.0c2 it appears that all that was done was they "un-did" the code change, which is why our friend is back. It also explains why c2 came out so quick.

Choose which bug hurts you the least. I'm sticking with 3.1.0c until I'm comfortable that they fixed both problems without introducing new ones.


----------



## Tutman

> _Originally posted by dcluck _
> *Well, this evening makes for the 5th time our Sony T-60 has been hit with this bug in the past year. Running 3.1.0c2. Guess they still haven't nailed down the issue. My wife noticed that the unit wasn't recording when it should have been so she checked and all of our channels I recieve were missing except for a few in the 600s. All SPs are hosed and will have to be setup again. Great timing with the new season starting.
> 
> ~Dave *


Dave, no need to redo the season passes. You should be able to reboot, and wait awhile. Season passes tend to come back about an hour after reboot.


----------



## Cosmic

Looks like I've been hit with this on one of my 3 DTiVos. Five hours after unplugging and restarting, and I still don't have channels 709 and 710 (NFL Sunday Ticket) although I can manually tune to these channels and I don't get "Channel not available". Do I have to call DirecTV and have them "hit" the machine?

Cos


----------



## Tutman

Cos,

When you reboot, you should get your season passes back. Your channels are there, they've just been erased from your favorite channel list. I assume that your guide is set to display favorites. You can change which channel list gets displayed in the guide to "All", "All you receive", or "Favorites". You can then go setup your favorite channels again. This time write them down, so that every time this hits you it only wastes 10 minutes of your time.

No need to bother the really helpful people at DirecTV, unless you want them to note your account about this problem.


----------



## Cosmic

Thanks Tutman, 

Those 2 channels had been un-checked on the "Channels I Receive" list.

Go figure.

Cos


----------



## cherrystreet10

I am new to this thread so pardon me if I repeat something that has already been posted. I had the dreaded channel delete several times in the past few years on my 600 series DirectTIVO especially when I was away on vacation for a few days or more. Since we lose power frequently here in the country and must rely on a generator backup, I began powering my TIVO with a UPS power supply for the past six months (to eliminate any power interruptions) and have had no further problems with dropped channel lists - maybe I have just been lucky, but so far it is working just fine.


----------



## Dirac

My Philips got hit sometime over the last 5 weeks I was out of town. It is the only S1 machine I'm still using. It's running c2. So apparently, the problem is not fixed.


----------



## Fofer

> _Originally posted by Dirac _
> *My Philips got hit sometime over the last 5 weeks I was out of town. It is the only S1 machine I'm still using. It's running c2. So apparently, the problem is not fixed. *


I'm curious, has DTV/TiVo ever come out and specifically mentioned this "bug"... and that c or c2 was supposed to fix it?

I don't think I've ever seen an official mention of it, or release notes for the "updates" for that matter. The only thing we're going on is circumstantial reports from folks who "haven't been bitten by the bug in a while." Of course, that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Vesper

I got hit with this 2 times in the past week. Looks like our favorite problem is back. Last Wednesday and this Wednesday. I turned the TV on and had "Channel not available" everywhere. I almost missed Lost because of it, too. 

It sure makes me glad I switched to DirecTV.


----------



## Tutman

I am still running on the old 3.1.0c (not 3.1.0c2) on 2 systems and neither one has lost favorites since upgrading to 3.1.0c. This problem used to hit me at least every 6 weeks, and it has now been a few months. Obviously they fixed the problem in 3.1.0c but that broke something else, so they backed out the fix in 3.1.0c2.

I hope that they have a new fix (for both losing favorite channels, as well as video freezing) and they have just been testing this fix a little more thoroughly.

I haven't had video freeze up since the last hurricane system came through. I'll keep 3.1.0c until I get word that they got the favorites bug fixed without breaking something else.

Blankman, if you still monitor this thread after getting new S2 machines, how are the new ones working out?


----------



## grant33

Grrrrr. This happened to my SAT T60 while I was out of town, which meant I came back to find that quite a few things hadn't been recorded. Luckily, I have a 2nd Tivo in the bedroom that got most things. What is the latest on this issue?


----------



## dwynne

> _Originally posted by grant33 _
> *Grrrrr. This happened to my SAT T60 while I was out of town, which meant I came back to find that quite a few things hadn't been recorded. Luckily, I have a 2nd Tivo in the bedroom that got most things. What is the latest on this issue? *


The new software fixed it for most everyone. Is your T60 still on the old load?

Dennis


----------



## grant33

> _Originally posted by dwynne _
> *The new software fixed it for most everyone. Is your T60 still on the old load?
> 
> Dennis *


I'll have to look when I get home. What is the latest (fixed) software version. My Tivo is always plugged into a phone line, so I see no reason why it wouldn't have been updated. I haven't seen any nag screens saying it hasn't dialed up.


----------



## Agatha Mystery

> _Originally posted by Tutman _
> *I am still running on the old 3.1.0c (not 3.1.0c2) on 2 systems and neither one has lost favorites since upgrading to 3.1.0c. This problem used to hit me at least every 6 weeks, and it has now been a few months. Obviously they fixed the problem in 3.1.0c but that broke something else, so they backed out the fix in 3.1.0c2.
> 
> I hope that they have a new fix (for both losing favorite channels, as well as video freezing) and they have just been testing this fix a little more thoroughly.
> 
> I haven't had video freeze up since the last hurricane system came through. I'll keep 3.1.0c until I get word that they got the favorites bug fixed without breaking something else.
> 
> Blankman, if you still monitor this thread after getting new S2 machines, how are the new ones working out? *


I went for probably 4-6 months without a reset, and I had this happen to me again today(last night?). Turns out, I know have 3.1.0c2.

I know this is a software issue. I just got off the phone with their higher level tech support. Their response? Do a 3-4 hour reset (using the remote) and clear ALL data (i.e. according to him, it will reset season passes, remove all recordings, etc). Basically, I have to do a reformat of the hard drive to see if it will work. Obviously, this is a software bug and not a hardware bug, but they no longer seem to be writing software that will work with the older hardware. After the 3-4 hour reset doesn't work (and I'm pretty sure it won't), then they will just replace my receiver. I basically pushed him into admitting that. I know that many of us have had this problem, so I wanted to know what they were going to do when the long reset doesn't work (because through the experience of this forum, I know it doesn't), at which point he said they would replace it. I asked him if I could just give his name as the one who said they would replace my receiver, and he told me that he was logging it into my account info so I wouldn't have to.


----------



## BrettStah

Long reset does not work. Just a waste of time... if you complain enough, you can apparently get replacement Series2 DirecTivos for little or nothing. I haven't yet done so, but I probably will the next time it happens.


----------



## Fofer

What a pain. They actually suggest doing a long reset, which erases all of your SP's, WL's, thumb ratings *and* recordings... and it still doesn't help?

Sheesh.  I'd be super-peeved if I didn't know about this forum and did what they suggested, losing all of my recordings... only to find out I'm no better off than I was before. :down:


----------



## Budget_HT

We did the "long reset" several months ago on one of our series 1 DirecTiVos and it actually did solve the problem. We have had no problems with that particular DirecTiVo since.

I suspect that there are so many variables here that it is not safe to predict outcomes.

As always, YMMV.


----------



## duanej

Just to add my name to this long list, I've had it happen to my series 1 Philips 3 times in the last month, yesterday being the last time. I'm running 3.1.0c2. What a pain.


----------



## Rcrew

> _Originally posted by duanej _
> *Just to add my name to this long list, I've had it happen to my series 1 Philips 3 times in the last month, yesterday being the last time. I'm running 3.1.0c2. What a pain. *


Congrats on the 1000th post to this thread!

Kind of a dubious award...


----------



## duanej

Actually, I meant to say that I lost all my channels from 'Channels that I receive', but yep, it's getting kinda sad, isn't it. Any chance of this ever getting fixed?


----------



## jamesbobo

This hit me for the first time on Tuesday, Oct. 26. I see that this thread was started over a year ago. I have to wonder why this bug just got to me now, what took so long? I've had my unit since June, 2003.


----------



## Doomed

My problem isn't really losing (not loosing, thank you) favorites, but since other "channel not available" questions are being directed to this thread I'll post it here:

I just re-activated my SAT-T60 after having been out of the country for 2 years. I made a 4+ hour daily call and rebooted to update from 2.5xxxx to the current 3.1xxxx version. I made a second daily call and went through another 30 minute data update.

My problem is that all of my local channels are displaying the "Channel not available" message. I have called D* and confirmed that my local channels are in my subscription. The channel name and program info through next week show up in the guide, but not the channel itself. I spent over an hour with level 2 tech support, and their final answer was to let it wait 24-72 hours to download program guide info. I reminded them that I have guide info through next week, but she said I need to wait a few days before they'll do anything more.

Again, this is not a favorites lost issue, just local channels unavailable to watch. Has anyone else experienced this problem and resolved it?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## BrettStah

> _Originally posted by Doomed _
> *Again, this is not a favorites lost issue, just local channels unavailable to watch. Has anyone else experienced this problem and resolved it?
> 
> Thanks in advance. *


 Reboot.


----------



## Budget_HT

Reboot fixed my series 1 DirecTiVo (with the same symptoms as yours) and it has worked fine ever since (about 6 months). DirecTV tech support said they would replace it if it failed that way again.


----------



## Doomed

Yeah, it would have been nice if reboot had fixed it, but between the 3 technicians I worked with I rebooted about 5 times with zero success. In the end, I did a complete erase and then re-ran guided setup. After that the local channels were not available in the guide or anywhere. I called D* again and asked them to try resetting the local channels. A very helpful tech did something none of the others had done since the box started re-acquiring satellite data on its own instead of having me manually do it. At the end my local channels were available for the first time!


----------



## JJA

Don't know if this is the same thing.

I have a FOX waiver coming. I was told to keep watching for the change on CH385,386.

Went to "customize channels" to add CH385,386 to my favorite list. They are missing. I have 382, 383 (NBC) but no 380, 381 (CBS) or 385, 386.

They were all there last week. Resetup and reboot did not help.

Is this the same bug?


----------



## stivovance

Are the channels in your channels you receive list? and are they checked?


----------



## JJA

> _Originally posted by stivovance _
> *Are the channels in your channels you receive list? and are they checked? *


No, they are not in any list. I have all the Spanish, NFL, NBA, MBL, and many others I do not receive listed but not 380,381,385,386 (PBS 384 is still there).

I know there were there last week because I checked the FOX stations so I could watch for them to become active.


----------



## Dirac

Fox and FoxW are 388 and 389. Are you sure you're watching for the right channels to show up, or did I miss something in a previous post?


----------



## boberonicus

Hmmm,

Just lost favorites on my DSR6000 running 3.1.0c2-01-1-001. Bummer! Thanks to blankman for continuing to push this. Is the TivoOpsMgr still interested in this issue? Not surprisingly, it doesn't look like we've seen any progress on this over the past year. I would call DTV but I don't need to be told how to reboot.

Robert


----------



## Tutman

Blankman is long gone from this issue...D sent him new series 2 machines and didn't even ask for the old ones back. I'm still running C1, and both machines have yet to lose favorites. Ever since this problem started (I first posted to this thread in July 2003), I never went longer than about 6 weeks without this problem on at least one of my systems. It has now been several months with C1, and I'm convinced this problem is GONE!

The story is that they fixed this problem in C1, but C1 caused problems with the video stream locking up during low signal strength. They brought out C2 which reversed the "fix", and now this problem is back. I don't seem to experience the problem with the video stream locking up very often (happened once in the past 4 months), which is why I have chosen to stick with C1.

I suspect that D (or Tivo on their behalf) isn't working on this issue. Hopefully they know it is fixed in a version yet to be released, and they are getting it prepared.

If you (or anyone else) are experiencing the problem, call them every single time it happens. It will fall off their priority list if people don't keep pushing it to the top. After a few calls, demand free series 2 machines. Just don't let them play dumb, and don't perform circus stunts like "clear and reset". There are no fixes other than software fixes.

Tutman


----------



## boberonicus

Tutman,

Thanks for the excellent writeup and advice. I just lost all favorites AGAIN tonight. I was so irritated that I had my wife call D. The tech suggested decided that my DSR6000 was running out of hard drive space. We chose not to debate this. Frankly, I'm really glad I wasn't on the phone to hear that sage advice, my blood pressure's fairly high as it is. 

She then told us to unplug for 15 minutes, which we did (20 minutes just to be safe) and that faves would return. They didn't, of course.

Frankly, I can't see how this call will help push this issue to the top of the priority list. After all, the tech "fixed" the issue and closed the case.

The tech had never heard of this problem. I made sure the error was logged in my account. 

Cheers,

Robert


----------



## kschoenberg

Just happened to me for the first time. Turned on the machine and my Channels you receive is now gone. Not thrilled. I can see this thread is quite long and has been going on for quite some time. Will there ever be a fix? I mean other than buying another brand of DVR?

Sony T60 here...unmodified and nowhere near full.


----------



## pcbuilder

1


----------



## pcbuilder

nevermind, new here sorry


----------



## MauriAnne

::: sigh ::::

It happened again to me this weekend. I hadn't seen it in months, but it came back. 

:::: sigh :::::


----------



## agliofiore

Hi. I'm new to this forum. Recently, a local channel (WB) disappeared from DTV; I rearranged TiVo scheduling manually for 3 weeks, until DTV and TiVo made the change official. I'm assuming this will happen again. After failing to ID the problem, DTV sent me 2 receivers, which, they claim, will move my local stations from the 900s to the lower channels. I haven't been able to hook them up, because DTV now uses a phone jack, instead of a serial port. After a week trying to find the cables with DTV, I finally found them on the TiVo website. I will change the receivers, when the cables are delivered, to see if this will help.

I'm posting here for 2 reasons: 1) Does anyone know if changing to lower channels (e.g., WB will show up on 39, not 918) will solve the problem of a channel disappearing, then reappearing elsewhere with no TiVo programming? 2) Is there anything new and helpful about this issue? Thank you.


----------



## elitefunky2000

This just happened to me twice in the last week. I lost all of my channels, so I rebooted, and all of my season pass info was still there, but nothing was recorded. i had to select "edit recording options", and then hit "continue with these options" for EACH season pass. 

I called DTV and they said it was my card. They told me to pay them $20 for a new card!! I told them if they don't fix this, i'm switching to cable.....

RIDICULOUS!!! I JUST MISSED THE SEASON PREMIERE OF 24!!!


----------



## ksanders

I have not had this issue happen to me in quite a long time. I believe it has been since the latest 3.x upgrades.


----------



## dwynne

Neither have I, it has been a LONG time. 

I wonder if "elitefunky2000" is running with no phone line connected and has missed the updates?

Dennis


----------



## ksanders

That is about all that I can think of that would be the issue here. I have a SAT-T60 with the problem. Unfortunately, I cannot upgrade it, because the modem was fried on the Tivo unit during a storm and I cannot get the TivoNet card to be recognized by this particular unit. I have TivoNet working on a different unit with no problems. The SAT-T60 will not boot with the card in there.


----------



## cvarner

My SAT-T60 has not experienced the problem since last summer.
Knock on wood...


----------



## elitefunky2000

my software version: 3.1.0c2

i hope this doesn't happen again......this sucks...


----------



## Dirac

I have had it happen once on my Philips since version c2. That's a lot better than before, but it seems it still can happen.


----------



## Fish Man

On one of my GXCEBOTDs:

Last week had my "Channels I Receive" list revert to all channels. Fixed that.

Last night I lost all channels, To Do list went to no entries (rebooted in time to record "Lost"! Whew!).

This is the first trouble of this sort I have had in a year or more.

So, just when we thought this bug was fixed....

It's Baaaaaack!!!  :down:


----------



## davemayo

I just had it happen to me on my SAT-T60 a couple of weeks ago. The first time it's happened in the three years I've had it.


----------



## TV addict

It happened to me Wednesday morning on one of my 4 series 1 DTiVo's. First time since getting c2.


----------



## elitefunky2000

just got off the phone with extended technical support from directv. they said that they were having problems lately with their feed. i think that the problems cause the tivo software to get messed up. 

they didn't say that there was a fix coming.


----------



## bareyb

I'm beginning to think they don't want to fix the problem. From a business perspective I can see the advantage to them to force folks to at least consider new channels. They know once you have locked in your favorites that you probably won't ever stray. Therefore any NEW programming or channels would never be seen by the vast majority of their customer base. 

Anyway, call me paranoid (or call me a Cable TV business owner). Either way, I have my doubts that they want this fixed any time soon. If they did, they wouldn't be playing the "blame game" and avoiding the issue. They have intentionally put a lid on this. That's my opinion of course, but at this point I can't see any other plausible explanation for the secrecy and lack of action on this issue. As bad as they are, they can't possibly be this bad unless it's on purpose. Hey their strategy worked on me. I DID see some new channels that weren't there the last time I'd gone through them and I did manage to pick up a couple new ones that I added to my favorites. Hopefully, they might stay there for awhile, at least until DTV decides they need for me to re-choose them again.


----------



## spellow

I have a new HR10-250 and it happened on it....twice in first week...but not since then.


----------



## BrettStah

spellow, this long thread is about a bug/bugs that are specific to the older first-generation DirecTivos. None of the Series2 DirecTivos, nor the HD-DirecTivo, are supposed to have this bug, unless I missed mention of it. Of course, you could be the first to report it, right? Lucky you!


----------



## cvarner

spellow, can you describe exactly what happened on your box? I think it's important to determine if this is THE bug, or if it is something similar-but-not-exactly. This could be a huge issue if this bug has migrated to the HR10-250.
Thanks...


----------



## bldxyz

> _Originally posted by Fish Man _
> *On one of my GXCEBOTDs:
> 
> Last week had my "Channels I Receive" list revert to all channels. Fixed that.
> 
> Last night I lost all channels, To Do list went to no entries (rebooted in time to record "Lost"! Whew!).
> *


I've had both of these happen to me recently.

The "Channels I Receive" list reverts to all channels for me often. Just the other day, in fact.

The "lost all channels" issue happened to me just once, December 28 or so. That was a shocker! I'm glad I did a reset before I lost the recording of anything I cared about!

BTW, I'm using a Phillips Series 1 (DSR6000)?

I tried to read over this whole thread but it doesn't sound like there is a solution... True?

->Brent


----------



## BrettStah

The only true solution has been to get replacement Series2 DirecTivos.


----------



## eroseme

Another data point: The "lost all channels" problem happened to my Sony SAT-T60 last night at about 6pm PST (Tue, 1/18/05). My receiver has the phone line connected and makes all daily calls.

Note that I can duplicate this at will by leaving the receiver tuned to a music station. If I come back the next day, it will have the "lost all channels" problem. 

Sorry - I have not read the full thread, so I may be missing details.

Note that my HR10-250 also has a (non-related) re-occurring problem like this, with similar customer failure rate, and DTV exhibits about the same level of concern.


----------



## duanej

I've also had the "lost all channels" problem happen once to my new HR10-250. Most annoying as it has happend to my older Series 1 box several times.


----------



## Tutman

Well, I sure hope the R10's aren't having this problem in wide numbers. I've been on this thread from almost the beginning.

This problem WAS FIXED in C1. However, it broke something else. They came out with C2 which reversed the change. I know this was fixed in C1, because I've been running C1 on both of my DSR6000's since July or August, and no problems on either unit since. Before C1, I could count on each system losing favorites at least every 6 weeks.

I finally jumped on the bandwagon to replace my old units. D is giving me $150 credit, plus 6 mo. showtime, and 6 mo. with $8 credit per mo. to go buy 2 new units. See the thread about getting $49 dtivo for free.

I'm planning on picking up a couple of R10's, and that is why I surely hope this bug is not back on the R10's. If it is, then a new thread should be started.


----------



## gschrock

Had the all channels disappear thing happen again sometime between wednesday night and thursday evening, noticed it before primetime stuff though. I need to seriously consider replacing my last S1 dtivo, although I kinda wish I could get a dsr704 to match what the other two I have are.


----------



## killerdc

I have NEVER had this happen. I have not had my TIVO hooked up to a landline since the day the guy came and installed it though. 15 months. The software that came with the machine seems to be working just fine. I was going to hook it up to a phone line, but this makes me leary.


EDIT It took my TIVO box 5 hours to update last night lol. It had not made a successful call in 456 days HEHE. It took 20 minutes to connect and then 390 minutes to update. At least thats what it said when I went to bed. I dont know if it helped anything, as I didnt get a chance to watch it this morning. IT had been running pretty slow.


----------



## DouglasPHill

I noticed this right away. Exclude the shopping channels from your list of channels and they mysteriously return on their own. Other excluded channels stay excluded. Come on DirecTv - stop this.


----------



## Dirac

That's a different issue. The shopping channels do not broadcast 24 hours a day, so when they go off the air and come back on, they automatically appear back in your Channels I Receive list. Some of the other channels do this too, but the shopping ones are usually the most noticeable culprits.


----------



## ustewjt

Alright ... it has happened again to me for the last time! I missed Survivor last night because my DSR6000 decided to once again reset and remove all but three channels. So I called the retention 800 number mentioned in the other thread and now I have two brand new Series 2 boxes scheduled to be installed on Monday (for free!). Hopefully, that will prevent this from happening again.

Is there any problems with the Series 2 boxes that I should be aware of? I guess I need to research the other threads for that information. My two Philips were great machines and I will probably keep them around for spares - I still have a Hughes DirecTivo in use for the kids. They tend to forgive the channel disappear problem more easily that I. 

However I do owe it to this group for the opportunity to obtain two new boxes for free - just by asking!

Thanks, Tim


----------



## ericlhyman

I also had a problem the night of the season premiere of "24", which was not recorded. When I noticed this the next day, All "channels I receive" were gone from that list and "record by channel" was nonfunctional because the program guide was not showing the programs. Unplugging the next day solved the problem, but it happened again last Thursday or Friday and I lost 3 days of scheduled recordings. This happened with my Sony SAT-60. The problem did not solve itself after a forced daily call. Only unplugging worked.

It did not happen with my HD tivo on those two occasions. Is there a perhaps a correlation between when these events are happening for many of us? Is it connected to some software change or glitch of DirecTV or the program guide transmission? Could it be weather related?


----------



## Dirac

This happened to my Philips DSR6000R last week for what must have been at least the 12th time. Look at my signature for the solution I chose. I had the CC protection plan so I actually got money ($50 gift card) back.


----------



## CharlieB

Sometime between late Friday night and Saturday evening Favorites and Channels I Receive were hosed. Restart revived CIR, had to rebuild Favorites. DSR6000. Hadn't had the problem for a few months, and was hoping it was fixed. Oh, well...


----------



## boberonicus

Just happened again to me after four months of OK operation. Called DirecTV and they said it wasn't their responsibility to fix the problem, as the DSR6000 was out of warranty. They requested $50 for a Series2. I agreed to this as I'm getting tired of this problem and DirectTV has no interest in fixing it.

Robert


----------



## kschoenberg

Just happened here as well. I wonder if it's tied to something else that Direc may be doing...like adding channels, etc.


----------



## cvarner

Happened to me again Sat. Mar. 6. After the box had done a service data download, it was OK, but as soon as it did a GC update and inxed itself, BOOM. No favorites.


----------



## Dirac

kschoenberg said:


> Just happened here as well. I wonder if it's tied to something else that Direc may be doing...like adding channels, etc.


Throughout the whole thread, there are different hypotheses as to why this happens. That is one of them--something having to do with adding and removing certain channels. Another one is electronic countermeasures. I don't even think BlankMan follows this thread anymore, and I would imagine most people who had this problem, myself included, have given up and traded in for a S2 DTiVo.


----------



## CraigHB

I have an SIR-S4040R with S/W version 3.3.1e-01-2-381. It doesn't have any problems with "channels you receive", but drops my favorites on a seemingly daily basis. I've resorted to keeping a printed list and setting up my favorites before searching for programs to record every time . It's lame, but I don't have much of a choice.

Your sig says you have the same box with the 4.x software. How does one go about getting the newer software version? My box has been making its daily calls. 

Thanks,

- Craig


----------



## Cosmic

It just happened to me, today, for the second time (last September also). I noticed there was a Service Data Download this morning, 3/10 @2:40am. I'm wondering if that's the problem.

It only happens on my DSR6000, not my two S2s. I have software version 3.1.0c2-01-1-001.

Its not the loss of "favorites" that makes this such a pain, its NOT recording because the channel is no longer in the guide. You never know when you'll sit down to watch something only to find out it wasn't recorded.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it seems to me that one way of getting everyone to drop their S1s is to "introduce" this type of behavior occasionally.


----------



## John Silver

Been happening to me on my Series 1 Hughes DirecTivo every day for the last week. Loosing channels I receive. It has always happened "every now and again" on both my Hughes and my T-60 (once a quarter or so), but in the last week, every day.

What is going on DirecTV?


----------



## MikeAndrews

Another me too. 

Upon reading this I checked my Series 1 DSR6000. Yup. "Your channels have not been set up." 

My service data download was at 2:33AM Saturday, which is likely when I got hosed. 

Who woulda thunk that I would have better off if I hacked the DTiVo to reject updates? I hadn't got a round tuit. 

I just added a third premium package online with DirecTV last night. After that I thought that I need to face reality and cut back on Season Passes since I can't possibly watch all of this stuff. 


I think I'll call and tell them I'll be backing out the new service and scrapping this Series 1 DTivo if they don't fix this. 

It wouldn't be so bad if setting the channel list was easier. You should be able to do from the program guide where you can see the channel name and the programming it has AND WHETHER YOU REALLY RECEIVE IT. 

Maybe DirecTV and TiVo are already going for the Comcast-style STB brain damage. 

In the meantime I'm getting more frequent sound pops on the Hughes HDVR2, even when it's parked at the Now Playing List....and I'm getting really sick of it not responding to the remote controls and the "Please Wait" clock for half a minute every time I bring up the Now Playing list. I hope that update fixes the Series 2..or !! For sure I won't be paying money for any more equipment.


----------



## bldxyz

Cosmic said:


> I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but it seems to me that one way of getting everyone to drop their S1s is to "introduce" this type of behavior occasionally.


I just can't believe that. True, it may be a motivation to not fix the problem with software in the older boxes, but I doubt it is done to deliberately convince people that there is a problem that can only be solved by buying new hardware.

They'd have to field a bunch of calls, which costs them money
Do they get the money off the hardware, or off the subscription? I think the subscription, for which there would be no new money.


----------



## BlankMan

This is still happening to others I see. Just curious, what is the latest software version for Series 1's? Especially T60's.


----------



## alphawave7

Back again.  Documenting the loss of favs on both of my Hughes gxcebots...I s'pose DTV has added new channels again?


----------



## pbolya

After a little over a year without the bug yesterday my series 1 SAT-T60 has dropped all (except 6 I never watch) of the channels from the ALL channels list (Only Now playing functionality until reboot - nothing else). After reboot the channels and the schedule came back but the todo list was emtpty for a long time (I guess it needed indexing) and of course the CHANNELS I RECEIVE and FAVORIT channels setup was wiped out. This is not looking good. I am running 3.1.0c2 Is that the latest version ? Are there any more relases planned (e.g. 6.something) ? I am not plugged in to the phone line so it wouldn't upgrade on it's own.


Regards,
Peter


----------



## tivoreno

Same here this week on my Hughes gxcebots and yes, 3.1.0c2 is the latest sw for us Series1 holdouts. I guess that's the penalty for wanting fast(er) menus.


----------



## duanej

Happened again to my HD Tivo. Scheduled stuff wasn't recording, got the "Channel Not Available" message on all channels, and the System Information said that all 4 tuners were "unavailable" #[email protected]#*@[email protected][email protected]!!!!


----------



## pbolya

Wow,
I never had any problem with my HR10-250 I thought this problem is fixed long before 3.1.5 came out (for series 2 that is). However I do have a huge issue with my Series 1 Sony SAT-T60 (3.1.0c2). Almost 2 weeks ago I had this channels dissapearing issue (see post above). I rebooted and the channels came back. I thought everything is back to normal but 2 days after the incident I noticed that the TiVo is keep rebooting. The following days the reboots came closer and closer until a couple of days later the reboots became 5-15 minutes appart. Since I do not think my TiVo is pregnent I investigated the issue and I foung out that none of my hacks causing this but TiVo's sceduler task is failing and causing the TiVo to reboot. When the TiVo came up I killed the task 'Scheduler' and the TiVo was up and running without a reboot eversince. Unfortunately the scheduler task is responsible for checking my season passes and scheduling shows according to it. The shows scheduled runs out next Monday. After that my TiVo will become a glorified VCR as I have to schedule each show manually (even if the guide is filled out for the next 2 weeks). 

Has anyone else experienced before? What did you do to fix it? I really think that it was caused by the same error made my channels dissapear (but I could be wrong). I think that there was an error put into one of my season pass or the guide database which makes the scheduler die. This error might be a leftover from the Channels dissapearing bug (but again I could be wrong). The error why the TiVo is rebooting is: Task (164) Scheduler died due to signal -2.

I have over 200 hours of shows recorded. I would hate to spend several days to download and reload all of these shows after a restore from 6 month ago. (I checked the drive and it is error free). Not to mention that maybe I also have to set up 70+ season passes again if the problem is in the season pass database. 

Any comments would be appreciated. 

Regards,
Peter


----------



## Budget_HT

pbolya,

When we had an SAT-T60 receiver going through a process similar to yours (frequent reboots, losing channels you receive, etc.) I called DirecTV (I am on their protection plan) and they offered to replace my series 1 with a series 2. They wanted me to wipe it clean and start from scratch before they would replace it. 

It is my wife's TiVo and she wanted some time to watch her programs. We set up my series 2 to record her shows going forward while she watched the shows she cared about on the faltering series 1. When she was done, I did a full reset (can't remember proper term right now), clearing the entire machine. Surprisingly, it has worked fine ever since (over 9 months now). DirecTV did note on my account that if we experienced the failure again, they would replace the box. They had already replaced our other SAT-T60 after an obvious hard drive failure.

I recall reading that other folks were offered replacements (series 2 for failing series 1) even when they were not on the DirecTV Protection Plan. I interpret their actions as acknowledging a problem with the series 1 boxes that they have chosen not to fix. Their "fix" is to gradually eliminate the series 1 boxes.

I have never seen any similar problem on my HD Tivo, which I have owned since late April, 2004. Mine has never been replaced (probably because I have no means of using HDMI at this time).


----------



## pbolya

Budget_HT said:


> pbolya,
> 
> When we had an SAT-T60 receiver going through a process similar to yours (frequent reboots, losing channels you receive, etc.) I called DirecTV (I am on their protection plan) and they offered to replace my series 1 with a series 2. They wanted me to wipe it clean and start from scratch before they would replace it.
> 
> It is my wife's TiVo and she wanted some time to watch her programs. We set up my series 2 to record her shows going forward while she watched the shows she cared about on the faltering series 1. When she was done, I did a full reset (can't remember proper term right now), clearing the entire machine. Surprisingly, it has worked fine ever since (over 9 months now). DirecTV did note on my account that if we experienced the failure again, they would replace the box. They had already replaced our other SAT-T60 after an obvious hard drive failure.
> 
> I recall reading that other folks were offered replacements (series 2 for failing series 1) even when they were not on the DirecTV Protection Plan. I interpret their actions as acknowledging a problem with the series 1 boxes that they have chosen not to fix. Their "fix" is to gradually eliminate the series 1 boxes.
> 
> I have never seen any similar problem on my HD Tivo, which I have owned since late April, 2004. Mine has never been replaced (probably because I have no means of using HDMI at this time).


Budget_HT,
I have no doubt that if I do and clear and delete my TiVo would come back to normal as it would wipe out all of the databases including the guide and my season passes. Unfortunately that method would wipe out my logos as well. In any way since I have a backup 6 monyh ago I am sure I can just restore that backup and my TiVo will work again. Unfortunately I do not think a DD from one harddrive to another would do any good as the harddrive has no errors.

I have over 200 hours of shows. we usually record 90% of our favorite shows on the HD TiVo and we use the SAT-T60 to record shows that we like but they are not a must see. Than when in the off season only repeats are showing we watch these shows instead. Watching off 200 hours of shows is out of the question especially that we need to watch our HD TiVo all the time as it fills up rather quickly.

When I have a chance I will delete all season passes and see if the sceduler works without them. Than add them back one by one to see if any of them breaks the Scheduler. This will take a while and might not work but the only other alternative is to download all shows restore from backup and upload all the shows back. That will take even longer and I need to get and I need to get about 200GB of harddisk space temporarily.

By the way I am sure I could make them replace my series 1 unit with a series 2 unit but I do not want to. I love my Sony TiVo. With the cachecard installed it is very fast and besides the software it is very reliable (not to mention that I installed a network plug on the back of it so I couldn't let them replace it even if I wanted it to).

You should feel lucky that you do not use the HDMI on your HD TiVo. I am on my second HD TiVo and I see the same signs of it failing as the first one. I got my first one late April too but the HDMI was starting to fail 2 month later. I tweaked it a little but it just got worse and worse and by November the hard drive failed too so it had to go back. Besides these the new unit also stops responding to remote control commands every now and than for a minute or 2 (although it always came back - others are not so lucky or patient.

Thanks for your reply though. It feels good to know that others had the same problem and it was not hardware related.

Regards,
Peter


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## Budget_HT

Peter,

I have actually followed (read) many of your posts over the last year or so, so I am somewhat familiar with your TiVo history (as posted).

I believe we still have and use the superior DVR product--both SD and HD. Perfect? No. Friendly, usable, reliable in terms of recording via Season Passess and Wish Lists? You bet! A few frustrating glitches? Yes, at times. But, I dare you to suggest to my wife that she give up her TiVo. Of course, you already know how that goes.

I have been reading a thread for the Motorola 6412 HD Cable DVR--the version with Microsoft application software being used only in Washington state. They have many frustrations with both the design and the performance of that product. Those who never had TiVo love it as the best they have experienced. Those who have used TiVo (typically SA TiVo) tolerate it as their only viable option (typically they are unable to get HD OTA reception).

I dread the day when we are told to start using a non-TiVo DVR (SD and/or HD). I am not anti-other products, I just don't believe that the newer products can come close to the more complete and mature TiVo products. I guess time will tell.

I defiinitely understand your frustration with the possibility of losing your library of HD TiVo programs.


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## pbolya

Budget_HT said:


> Peter,
> 
> I have actually followed (read) many of your posts over the last year or so, so I am somewhat familiar with your TiVo history (as posted).
> 
> I believe we still have and use the superior DVR product--both SD and HD. Perfect? No. Friendly, usable, reliable in terms of recording via Season Passess and Wish Lists? You bet! A few frustrating glitches? Yes, at times. But, I dare you to suggest to my wife that she give up her TiVo. Of course, you already know how that goes.
> 
> I have been reading a thread for the Motorola 6412 HD Cable DVR--the version with Microsoft application software being used only in Washington state. They have many frustrations with both the design and the performance of that product. Those who never had TiVo love it as the best they have experienced. Those who have used TiVo (typically SA TiVo) tolerate it as their only viable option (typically they are unable to get HD OTA reception).
> 
> I dread the day when we are told to start using a non-TiVo DVR (SD and/or HD). I am not anti-other products, I just don't believe that the newer products can come close to the more complete and mature TiVo products. I guess time will tell.
> 
> I defiinitely understand your frustration with the possibility of losing your library of HD TiVo programs.


Budget_HT,
I should be a millioner from TiVo commitions as I can not count how many people I talked into buying a TiVo. I have put off buying an HD TV for 3 years as I knew that no picture quality would make me watch TV without TiVo. I am just said how poor D* did with the hardware quality of the HR10-250 but do not think for a second that I would gave up this faulty box for anything else than a better (by that I mean Sony) HD D* TiVo. I am hoping that D* will not force us to replace our TiVo's with there PVR (although I am sure they will). But this post is not about my HD TiVo it is about the Sony SAT-T60 which is still one of the best D* TiVo's out there.

Anyway here is what I did: I backed up my season passes and than run "delete all guide, season pass and ToDo data". Not Clear everything as that would get rid of my Logos and maybe my shows too. Than after a day and a half (after the guide filled in enough) I added all of the season passes back manually one by one (with the exception of the shows masrked as cancelled/ended by tvtome.com). The only season pass I could not add back was 4400 as there are no repeats for the show right now.

It is now running for 2 days without a glitch and the ToDo list looks OK. Also I see a huge speed increase too (maybe with all the garbage accumulated in the last 3 years gone the whole database now fits into the 512MB memory of the cachecard or it just does not need to swap that much). Also as a result I gained 9MB space in my VAR partition (That one I can not explain) and 12GB of more Disk free space (I guess it deleted all the teleword and DVR showcase data collected through the years). So finaly all is well.

It was just bugging me why this happened and as I was investigating I found something that may or may not caused this. All of my season pass data in the mfs database looked ok with one exception. The FSID for the USA channel for the show 4400 does not exist in the channel database!!! I do remember that they had a problem with USA a while back and they changed to a new channel FSID causing me to miss several episodes of Monk. Could it be that this whole issue was because they removed the old channel from the database thinking that noone is using that dead channel anymore? I tried to restore that season pass from my backup but the program realizes that the channel do not exist and does not letting me restore that show without pointing it to the new USA channel FSID.


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## Budget_HT

Peter,

I am not as far into manipulating our TiVo boxes as you are, other than using the limited features and functions provided with the products.

One interesting coincidence (maybe?): On her SAT-T60, my wife records several programs from the USA channel, including Monk when available. Maybe our episode with the SAT-T60 was somehow also related to the USA mess.

I too have "sold" a fair number of SA and DirecTV TiVo's. If we were offerd $25 commisions on each, I could have almost paid for my HR10-250 with them.

Anyway, glad to hear your SAT-T60 is performing well right now. Like I said, after everything was reset, we have not had any more problem with ours.


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## LacyinTX

Please forgive me for not reading the entire 54 pages of this thread. But from what I have read it seems that most folks are losing their entire favorite channels list. Is anyone here losing just single channels willy-nilly? A few days ago there were two channels missing from my favorites list. I added them back. No big deal. Then today there were 12 channels missing. Is it just going to keep getting worse until they are all gone? I just don't look forward to spending 15 min everyday adding back channels. I called the place I bought my Hughes SD-DVR40 from and they don't have a clue. I really don't want to call DirecTV. They are no help on other issues, why would this be different?  But if they have anything useful to tell me, I will call in.

Any help would be appreciated.

Lacy


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## eengert

I have an R10 with 6.1. First time I lost any favorites was this weekend - lost about 10 channels. No clue why, and this hasn't happened before.


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## Dirac

Hey, I just noticed this problem this weekend on my bedroom receiver! I thought it might have been shutting the power off, but maybe it's more widespread.

Perhaps this deserves a new thread, as it now appears to be occurring on Series 2s???


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## johnfl

I also lost about ten channels from my Favorites guide....A couple of them were, Travel Channel, FX, the Nik channels, and Speed Channel...I have 3 R 10's with 6.1 
I lost them over the weekend.....No known reason either i.e. no power problems....Glad it wasn't just me (I think)


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## cvarner

After seeing these recent posts, I went and checked the favorites list on my SAT-T60 and at least 6 channels had been removed from my Favorites list. A few of them are: MTV.MTV2, HGTV, Discovery Kids, and 2 or 3 Music Choice channels. It seems to be random. Strange. If I get some time this week, I will call DirecTV tech support and see what they say.


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## Fofer

cvarner said:


> If I get some time this week, I will call DirecTV tech support and see what they say.


They'll tell you to reboot the receiver.


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## LBCABob

This has just happend to me on both receivers (a Series 1 and a Series 2) - just Channel 5 was dropped. Thought I was crazy or something. Now I know it's the unit.

How about a NEW sticky thread to track how badly DirecTV / TiVo handle the problem this time around?


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## tbone526

I also lost several channels sometime around the weekend on both my D* TiVo's. Sounds like a lot of the same channels others lost, such as FX, NIK, and others. 

I was able to reprogramm both lists, so it wasn't fatal, just annoying.

On a side note: it would be great if you could see the channel description while you're selecting the favorites for the channel list. I've found myself flipping back and forth between the selection menu and the guide to determine exactly what I want to keep. This is much easier once I discovered that after hitting Live TV from within the selection menu, I can get right back into it by hitting the Left arrow. Had these things almost two years now and didn't know Left arrow takes you back to where you left off on the TiVo menus....


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## j0hnW

Just got bit by this bug tonight on my T-60 (3.1.0c2-01-1-011). Lost all but five channels in both "Channels You Receive" and "Favorites". Plus, I missed all my scheduled shows today(*Internal Error:4* and *No longer in Schedule Data*). #[email protected]% !!

Did a reboot and all the channels reappeared. While it was _extremely_ annoying to have to re-configure all the channels, I was relieved to see that my 43 Season Passes were still intact. That would have been a serious pain to reconfigure/remember those.

I've now got my fingers crossed that I won't see this problem again for another few months, and that my T-60 won't suffer the "creeping reboot" problem suffered by some others.

Tonight I'm *not* feeling the love with Tivo. Sigh.

John


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## Phantom Gremlin

j0hnW said:


> Tonight I'm *not* feeling the love with Tivo. Sigh.
> 
> John


Okay, I haven't read back to the beginning of the thread. But I don't think the recent posts blaming TiVo are correct. I lost the same channels myself.

Here's what I think happens.

For some MORONIC reason DTV temporarily drops channels like MTV, then adds them back fairly quickly if not immediately. When this happens the TiVo drops them out of the favorites (because they disappeared from the overall list of channels).

Just to make it clear, I'm talking about channels like MTV and MTV2. I remember distinctly that those were among the dozen or so I lost from my favorites. I'm not talking about how ALL or MOST of the favorites disappear.

I don't think the TiVo behavior is a bug. Yes, TiVo could be a lot smarter and attempt to notice that the channels were previously in favorites and then put them back into favorites when DTV adds them. But, sheesh, why should they have to do that??? The bug is in DTV dropping them, why should TiVo need to workaround that???


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## john-duncan-yoyo

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Okay, I haven't read back to the beginning of the thread. But I don't think the recent posts blaming TiVo are correct. I lost the same channels myself.
> 
> Here's what I think happens.
> 
> For some MORONIC reason DTV temporarily drops channels like MTV, then adds them back fairly quickly if not immediately. When this happens the TiVo drops them out of the favorites (because they disappeared from the overall list of channels).


FWIW my old RCA DirectV reciever w/o TiVO lost a few channels as well. This is a problem of the channels being dropped and added back. A simple reset took care of this.


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## Manic_D

I had this just happen to me a couple of days ago, too. It's a Samsung S4040R. I lost 20-30 channels. Some of the ones I remember were MTV, MTV 2, HGTV, some Music Choice channels, Nickelodeon, FX, & a bunch more that I don't recall.


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## eengert

Some of you mention a reset...are you saying that we don't have to manually add the channels back to our lists? We just have to reset the box and the lists are back to the way we had set them up previously?


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## jon777

Similar losses here, HGTV, NIK, MTV, MTV2...


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## BJBBJB

Here is a series 1 directivo lost favorites update.
It happens often enough I almost don't want to reset the favorites up, but I do... This time I SAW what caused them to disappear. It came up saying it just HAD to connect to the satellite to get updated info.... You know the 25%....50%.... etc. etc. with the little colored circles.. Anyway, it tried like 3 or 4 times and finally it made it to 100%. When it went back to guide... no channels. All favorites were gone. I changed the guide to "all channels received" and everything showed up. But of course favorites are gone.

How hard can this be to debug and fix after a year????!!
O yeah, I have 2 units, and there is no rhyme, coordination, or apparent reason when this happens with each one.
I am sure after I get over it I will key them back in and they will stick for like 2 months again...

BJBBJB


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## cvarner

eengert said:


> Some of you mention a reset...are you saying that we don't have to manually add the channels back to our lists? We just have to reset the box and the lists are back to the way we had set them up previously?


Doing a reset will restore the "Channels I Receive" list, but you must add back the "Favorites" list manually.


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## BJBBJB

Is this reset a hard "unplug, let sit, and plug back in" reset or a reset off the menu. I don't want to lose season passes, etc. just to get the channels I receive back correctly. Now I think it just thinks I receive everything..

BJBBJB


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## cvarner

You can reset it either way. You DO NOT need to do a clear and delete.


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## cvarner

For the record, I just lost my favorites again today, 6/6/05.


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## unclestinky

I have a Philips (DSR-6000?) Series 1 Tivo/DirecTV, and this has happened to me several times in the three years we've owned it. Just happened a few days ago, in fact. I've taken to keeping a list of my channels on my PDA just to save time in re-setting the guide. THIS IS BULL!!!

I can't recall if it was Tivo or DTV, but one of their CSR's admitted that the disappearing channel list occurs about every two months. They had no guess as to when and if a fix might be available.

PS. Just spoke with DirecTV. Their official line is that the Series 1 Tivo's are unable to receive the software updates that corrected this disappearing channel problem. 

Their initial remedy was to exchange our Series 1 for a current, refurbished unit with the same 35 hour capacity for $49. Problems is, we upgraded ours a year ago to 135 hours.
They then offered to upgrade us to a new 70 hour unit for $49 + $14.95 shipping, with installation. Hmmm...


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## unclestinky

cvarner said:


> For the record, I just lost my favorites again today, 6/6/05.


 My channels disappeared on the same day as CVARNER. Anyone else?


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## dwynne

unclestinky said:


> My channels disappeared on the same day as CVARNER. Anyone else?


Mine were gone on 6/7 . I mainly use the HDTivo so I had not looked at the SD DTivo for a day or two, so it is POSSIBLE they went on 6/6.

In my case this time I lost the favs AND all the channels - the black screen with "channel is not available". You do the sat test and had a strong 99 signal. Just reboot and all the channels come back, but I had to re-do favs again. I missed some recordings since the channel was not available or "program was removed from the guide" or whatever the wording is.

I think I am on 3.1c, I have not phoned home on that box in several months - since switching to VoIP telephone. I just got PPP going so I do have it PPP'ing home when I want it to, so maybe I can get the newer software?

Dennis


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## JackS

I lost some local channels from the Favorite Channels lineup last month.
This month some channels I don't receive were added to the lineup.
I noticed this problem occurred more often after the v6.2 s/w upgrade.

I phoned DTV customer service to get a solution. Three calls and over
90 minutes later, I spoke with a tier-2 technical person. They said
that the solution was to reformat the hard drive. This act returns the
unit to it's factory condition, losing all recorded programs and season
passes, etc.

While I had the tech on the phone, I bent his ear with regard to the
misnamed "Channels You Receive" lineup. When I see those three
words, I am expecting DTV to automatically show only those channels
which I pay for and receive a signal on. This is not the case, as you
all know. DTV knows which channels I receive, so why can't DTV
fill in the "Channels You Receive"?

It's only been a few days since the reformatting of the HD. So far
there's been no more modification to the channel guide. Probably
too soon to tell for sure. I'll monitor this and report back.

-Jack
Hughes HDVR2 35hr.


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## JackS

Over the weekend I noticed that some shopping channels were
added to the 'Channels You Receive' list. I specifically remember
removing those (and other) channels from that list and now they
are back.

Phoned DTV customer service to let them know. One suggestion
was to use the Parental Controls to block those shopping channels
from ever appearing in the list. When we got to the part where you
set up a password, I stopped them cold. I do not need another
password to remember to not see a shopping channel on my TV.

I asked to speak with a supervisor. And I told them my story.
They said that noone should have suggested reformatting the HD.
The latest solution is to replace the old satellite receiver box with a
new one. An R10 was installed yesterday at no cost to me. Wow.

Will continue to monitor the situation. Hopefully this is the fix.

Jack
DirecTV R10 70hr.


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## stivovance

I lost mine on my s1 hughes either late on 6/20 or early 6/21. CYR and Favs were gone, rebooted had to reprogram fav channels and go into all my season passes and massage them by saying change record settings and then just saying okay for my todo list to re-populate as I had only 35 mins before a scheduled recording was to take place. It's been about a year since this happened to me, but still annoying.


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## bldxyz

*AAAZAARRARAGRAGRAGRGGGGGG!!!*

This just happened to me for the first time: I turned on the TV, and it said "channel not available"... pressed the "guide" button, and saw NO CHANNELS. Having recalled that others in this thread had solved this with a simple Restart of the receiver, I did that, but it seems to be taking it's sweet time in repopulating the To Do list.

How long should _that_ take?

It happened today between 6:30pm PST and 8:30pm. Can I expect this to happen more and more? If I ***** and moan, will DTV do anything? Am I hosed because I have a Series 1, Phillips DSR6000, now feeling really dumb for having bought a lifetime subscription (back when the monthly was $10)...


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## Budget_HT

Your lifetime subscription stays with your DirecTV account, not any one specific DirecTiVo box. This was changed when DirecTV took over these accounts from TiVo Inc.

I have a Sony SAT-T60 series 1 box that periodically has its favorite channels and channels you receive go away. I decided to relegate it to recording childrens program for when my grandkids come to visit (often). We have an HD TiVo and a series 2 DirecTiVo (SD) that are handling our programs for now.

When I asked DirecTV (I have the protection plan) about a replacement for the ailing series one box, they said they needed multiple documented occurrences before they would replace the box. SO, be sure to report each incident to DirecTV to build your case file.


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## JackS

After a hardware upgrade this problem persists. A shopping channel (QVC) and
a contemporary christian music channel were automatically added to the Favorite
Channels list. I know that I took QVC out, and the only music channel I selected
was the bluegrass channel.

DTV explained that the shopping channels go off-air from time to time. When they
come back on-air, DTV thinks it's a brand new channel and adds it to the list.

I told them that this is not acceptable. After waiting on hold a while, DTV said that
adding and deleting channels was a known problem. There is no solution at this
time. DTV is in the process of developing a solution.

-Jack
DirecTV R10 70hr.


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## Fofer

I guess the explanation is sound, but the receiver thinking a "new" channel should automatically be marked as "Favorite" is the bug that should be addressed.

(Not to mention, a channel that's "dropped" and soon thereafter re-added back identically shouldn't be seen as "new.")


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## pbolya

Fofer said:


> I guess the explanation is sound, but the receiver thinking a "new" channel should automatically be marked as "Favorite" is the bug that should be addressed.
> 
> (Not to mention, a channel that's "dropped" and soon thereafter re-added back identically shouldn't be seen as "new.")


Fofer,
most of the times they change the channel number too. I added DirecTv schedule to my standalone so I can look up shows from all rooms even if I can only watch some of them from the living room. My standalone TiVO use to send me mails all the time about DTivo channels added and removed and there are a couple of channels keep poping up with changing the channel numbers back an force. I think D* do not care as they probably get paid a lot to look the other way (or even to do this for them). As long as they do not loose subscriptions because of this it will never be fixed. This is not a bug it is a loophole.

Regards,
Peter


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## tivojenesis

I have two new Tivo boxes (one a new Humax DVR) connected to one-year-old DirecTV receivers by infrared. I lose all but local channels on these two DTV receivers several times a week. Have to unplug the DTV receiver and wait, then plug back in and wait while it reaquires channels.

DirecTV sent out a "technician" who shrugged and said he didn't know what caused it. I have lost many hours of scheduled programming, and DirecTV's only other solution was to sell me two new receivers for $30 each plus $14 handling.

I talked them down today to two receivers for $30 total and no handling fees. It's the best they would do. I wonder if it will even solve the problem?

-tivojenesis


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## dpbnj

Chalk up another one on the list of people with DirecTivos loosing Favorites. I have 3 old Series 1 units, all running 3.1.0c2. They all started with the problem in the prior release. 3.1.0c2 may have made it less frequent, but all 3 have lost favorites since the upgrade as well.


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## cvarner

Lost my favorites again yesterday (7-21-05). Received the famous "This channel guide is not set up..." message.
Called D* to see what they could do for me as far as replacing the Sony T-60.
After much wrangling, I got them to send me a 70-hour R10 for $99. plus $15. shipping. And, they will credit my programming fees by $20 per month for 6 months, so my net cost is zero. WOO HOO. I'm really going to miss my Sony Tivo box, though. They don't want the Sony box back, so if I don't like the R10, I guess I can put it in the closet and hook up the Sony again.


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## Joeymojo

I think it's appalling that this is a 2 year old issue and still going.

Nearly new R10 (under 1 month old) and I can't keep the shopping networks off my "Channels you receive" list. I'll delete them from the list, and within 24 hours they begin creeping back. Left alone for a week and about 10-12 channels will have reappeared, including some PPV and DTV channels that I could care less about.


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## seymouru

Different problem. When a channel is deleted from D*'s master list, and is then added back in, it will reappear in your own list, even if you deleted it earlier. They delete and re-add some of the shopping channels intentionally, just to make sure you can't delete them for long. I think D* has a deal with those channels to do that in order to maximize the number of viewers. So there's no point in deleting them manually, since they'll just keep showing up. Annoying as hell, but not much we can do about it.


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## Joeymojo

Great, so it's not a bug, it's just bad design...

So now I just have to move all my channels to favorites and switch the guide over to that?


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## seymouru

Joeymojo said:


> Great, so it's not a bug, it's just bad design...


 Not bad design, bad business practice. They've intentionally designed the process to prevent you from deleting certain channels for very long, so they can charge the providers more by ensuring that more viewers get their channel.



Joeymojo said:


> So now I just have to move all my channels to favorites and switch the guide over to that?


Personally, I just leave them in my lineup, and ignore them.


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## Fofer

seymouru said:


> Not bad design, bad business practice. They've intentionally designed the process to prevent you from deleting certain channels for very long, so they can charge the providers more by ensuring that more viewers get their channel.


I seriously doubt that.


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## hefe

I'm not sure what the incentive is, but it's no accident that all the stupid shopping channels re-add themselves after I delete them from the Channels I Receive...It's only certain channels...


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## Fofer

It has something to do with these channels being deleted and re-added, sure. But I don't think it's a sinister deal or some form of collusion between DTV and the shopping channels. 

It's just a combinations of bugs... the biggest being that the receiver doesn't allow the prefs to "stick" when an identical channel is re-added.


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## hefe

Fofer said:


> It has something to do with these channels being deleted and re-added, sure. But I don't think it's a sinister deal or some form of collusion between DTV and the shopping channels.
> 
> It's just a combinations of bugs... the biggest being that the receiver doesn't allow the prefs to "stick" when an identical channel is re-added.


Maybe, maybe not...but then it begs the question, why is it just those channels? They are not new. They don't need to be readded. Other channels that I remove don't re-appear as these do...


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## JackS

Joeymojo said:


> I think it's appalling that this is a 2 year old issue and still going.
> 
> Nearly new R10 (under 1 month old) and I can't keep the shopping networks off my "Channels you receive" list. I'll delete them from the list, and within 24 hours they begin creeping back. Left alone for a week and about 10-12 channels will have reappeared, including some PPV and DTV channels that I could care less about.


I've had this problem for a long time. DTV has yet to provide a solution.

One of their suggestions was to block the shopping channels you dislike
with parental controls. (I didn't actually try this, it seemed a little over the
top and I don't need to remember another password to NOT see another
shopping channel on my tv.)

Shopping channels have not been added to my Favorite Channels for a
month or two. I have had some resorting (by title) of the programs I have
saved with the DVR. I prefer to see them sorted by date and in folders,
so I've had to reset that at least twice since I got the R10 unit.

-Jack
DirecTV R10 70 hr.


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## cvarner

I have NEVER had channels added to my Favorite Channels list other than those added by me. This "bug" has removed some or all of them several times, though. The Channels I Receive list is mysteriously modified all the time.


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## lofgren_l

*FYI* - 
I've had my DSR6000 TIVO now for several years. I've had only one earlier problem and was able to recover from a dead drive with the generous help of this forum. This problem happened to me tonight so I logged in and have been reading all 2 years worth of communications for a while and just wanted to let you know what I did to correct.

I noticed under the system info that the internal temp was reading 60. I switched the unit off and removed power for about 30 min - 1 hour and then rebooted. All seems to be back to normal so I'm thinking that this is a temperature issue and am gonna look into testing/ replacing the cooling fan. When the unit was switched back on temp was back to a more normal 48.

I do not believe that this has anything to do with the 3.1.0c2 software as it has been working flawlessly since my drive repair which was long ago.

just my 2 cents.

Hope this helps.


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## unclestinky

We upgraded our DSR6000 a few months ago; the warranty is long expired; and neither Tivo nor D* seem to be willing or able to fix this annoying problem.

Has anyone heard of a hack that can be applied to fix it?


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## Fofer

unclestinky said:


> We upgraded our DSR6000 a few months ago; the warranty is long expired; and neither Tivo nor D* seem to be willing or able to fix this annoying problem.
> 
> Has anyone heard of a hack that can be applied to fix it?


Well, this hack doesn't "fix" it, but it does allow you to easily mark "channels you receive" as well as "favorites" ... and then take a snapshot of those settings:

http://geocities.com/mindrover_st/ChannelPrefs.html

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=222248

This way if the settings ever get forgotten you can easily "restore."


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## p26963

I just lost all of my favorite channels for the first time in around 2 years or so. I have the R10 unit. Very frusterating. :-/


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## lieutenantglorp

This bug always catches me off guard after I've long forgotten about it. Sometime before tonight for example when my highest priority season pass among others failed to record.


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## extension 721

I am certian this problem DOES occur when software updates happen. Anyone sending in info also take note of the software version. It may happen at other times but I KNOW it happens when dirrerent DTIVOS get an updae at different times based on zip code, programming, and Dtivo MODEL#


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## DanB

I just lost my channel list today (10/06) for the second time in appx two months (the last time was the first time it ever happened).

This is on an old DSR6000 Philips unit, currently running software version 3.1.0c2-01-1-001

Looks like the data loss is tied to either the data call or GC, both ran on 10/6 in early morning, before my next scheduled recording at 10am (which did not occur).

Data call was 10/[email protected]:31am GC was 10/[email protected]:25a


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## pigvig

I have a Sony SAT-T60, which has now lost the Favorites about 5-6 times this year. The last one occurred this morning. I also noticed a service data download, which I might assume is not a coincidence.


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## thorntons

Up front I apologize if I am posting to the wrong thread but I have been searching and searching and have come to the conclusion that this thread may be my best option. I have posted here in error please be kind and let me know where to post to.  

I have DirecTV and came home tonight to see that they have changed my local channel line up.  Now all my locals run from 880-896. Originally my NBC channel had been 900 now it has moved to 888. Heres where the problem comes in. My TiVo (Series 2) DVR does not yet have the newly changed channels listed in the guide. So tonight when my TiVo was supposed to tape a local show it changed to the old local channel and recorded nothing (since its not a blank channel). I can use the TiVo remote and change the channel to the new local channel and watch the show but the TiVo box isnt getting the new channel in its lineup. On the Guide I have it set to view Channels I Receive so its many listed there. Just not 880-896. I have connected to TiVos service (3 times via broadband), powered off/on my TiVo box, powered off/on the DirecTV box. I have gone into TiVo Central  Messages & Settings  Settings  Channels  Channel List and if I look for 888 its not listed there. I have even gone through resetting up the channel list by hitting enter on that screen saying it was the wrong channel list. But still no local channels listed. I am trying to force my TiVo to update itself and get those channels added in. If I dont I will miss many tapings since almost all my recorded shows are local channels.  Any ideas or advice? Its greatly appreciated! 

~thorntons


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## Budget_HT

Thorntons,

It sounds like you are using a combination of a stand-alone TiVo with an older DirecTV STB. The newer DirecTV STBs map the local channels from the satellite channel they broadcast on to a familiar local channel number (like SE5 for Seattle channel 5, which is tuned in on the STB simply by selecting channel 5).

You may have good reasons for not getting a DirecTV with TiVo DVR, but if you had one, you likely would not have this problem at all. Plus you would get two tuners and higher quality recordings for a lower monthly fee (unless you have a lifetime TiVo subscription for your SA TiVo).

That said, you can call or email TiVo with the channel lineup changes so they can update their channel lineup accordingly. I would guess that, over time, there are fewer and fewer people with your combination of equipment, so they may not even be aware of a problem yet.

Even if you don't want a DirecTiVo unit, if you upgraded your DirecTV STB to a newer vintage, you might end up only having to tune in by a channel number equivalent to what you receive OTA with an antenna.

Then again, I could be all wrong here, and if so, someone please bring me up to speed.


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## thorntons

Budget_HT said:


> Thorntons,
> 
> It sounds like you are using a combination of a stand-alone TiVo with an older DirecTV STB. The newer DirecTV STBs map the local channels from the satellite channel they broadcast on to a familiar local channel number (like SE5 for Seattle channel 5, which is tuned in on the STB simply by selecting channel 5).
> 
> You may have good reasons for not getting a DirecTV with TiVo DVR, but if you had one, you likely would not have this problem at all. Plus you would get two tuners and higher quality recordings for a lower monthly fee (unless you have a lifetime TiVo subscription for your SA TiVo).
> 
> That said, you can call or email TiVo with the channel lineup changes so they can update their channel lineup accordingly. I would guess that, over time, there are fewer and fewer people with your combination of equipment, so they may not even be aware of a problem yet.
> 
> Even if you don't want a DirecTiVo unit, if you upgraded your DirecTV STB to a newer vintage, you might end up only having to tune in by a channel number equivalent to what you receive OTA with an antenna.
> 
> Then again, I could be all wrong here, and if so, someone please bring me up to speed.


Budget_HT...You are correct that I am using a Stand-Alone TiVo & it could possibly be a older DirecTV STB (it's my roommates) but there's no need for me to have to purchase anything as you suggested. I called TiVo support & explained the problem & the TiVo support tech informed me that DirecTV indeed planned a channel line up change for channels other than my local channels. I reported the local channel change & he put in a service request for DirecTV to look into it. I looks like DirecTV forgot to inform TiVo that they were going to be doing a channel change. I called Thursday night and by Sunday I had the channels listed in my guide. I can now record shows w/o having to manually set the time, channel, etc. Just wanted to let you know.

~thorntons


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## Budget_HT

thorntons,

That sounds like a pretty quick response to me. 

When we had similar guide data problems with local digital channels appearing in the DirecTV Advanced Program Guide for our area, we had to report the problems to Zap2It.com and they had to work with the local TV stations and DirecTV to get things straight. That process took several weeks to complete, but all has been well ever since (for nearly 2 years now).

Glad all is working for you now.


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## BJBBJB

Don't even know if this data is still helpful.
I was watching a show (which was also being recorded) and the other tuner was recording a show. A screen popped up that said the unit HAD to acquire information from the satellite. It said I could do it now, and watch something from the now playing menu. It was near the end of the show so I watched it OTA, and let it do it's thing....25%, 50%, etc. etc....

Anyway, when it was done, I had "No channels" i.e. I had to switch to all channels as my favorites were gone. Note, this is BEFORE I rebooted the unit. Then, in all channels, I no longer had my local channels.

Long story short, had to call, had directv zap my unit...re-booted and locals and all others were there. Then I reset my favorites till the next time.

Directv said they were aware of the favorites problem and were working on a fix. Of course she was absolutely clueless as to what had ocurred and kept trying to tell me they had not downloaded a software update to my unit (which of course I KNEW) and there just had to be something wrong wtih MY UNIT!

Anyway, I said thanks, I was fine and went away.

I did notice that the XM channels were in all channels. Since they were not in my favorites to begin with I do not know if that is what forced this download or what (it is about one week since they debuted, right??).

Anyway, that's my story...
BJBBJB


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## cvarner

I had several of the old Music Choice channels set up in my favorites, and after the change to XM music, those Music Choice channels were gone from my favorites list. I had to go in and set up a few of the new XM channels in my favorites list. No big deal.
I finally gave up on the favorites issue and replaced my Sony T-60. The new machine's menu navigation is slower and I liked the Sony remote better, but otherwisse it's OK.
DirecTV replaced the Sony with a new 80 MB box for free ($99. cost minus $99. programming credit), so I can't complain much.


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## BlankMan

This is amazing, it's coming up on 3 years now when the this problem first occurred for me (it was a few months before I started this thread) and it still isn't fixed.

This thread has got to be setting some kind of record here at TC as the longest running active thread I bet.

What's really sad is that in 3 years they can't figure out how to fix it. I'm truly starting to suspect that they are never going to fix it (by choice) and are waiting for it to go away by the fact that the hardware having the problem will go away by replacement.

I can't fathom any other scenario, in 3 years you can't identify the cause and correct it?? I guess if you're not tying or don't want to you can't....


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## Fofer

cvarner said:


> DirecTV replaced the Sony with a new 80 MB box for free ($99. cost minus $99. programming credit), so I can't complain much.


80 MB? How much can that thing hold, like 6 minutes of video? I'd complain...


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## lieutenantglorp

Got hit again. Sometime between midday friday and midday saturday. Over three months of uptime, I guess I can't complain.


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## Budget_HT

Fofer said:


> 80 MB? How much can that thing hold, like 6 minutes of video? I'd complain...


Chuckle, chuckle!

We have lived with a pair of 40 GB DirecTiVo's for years, each with a capacity of about 30 hours. The Sony SAT-T60 (I still have one) only came with 40 MB, although many folks upgraded or added HDD capacity well beyond that.

My Sony was losing its channel lineup about once every 8-12 months. If it happens once more, DirecTV (protection plan) has agreed to replace it. So, of course, we have gone more than a year since the last failure.


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## john-duncan-yoyo

Budget_HT said:


> Chuckle, chuckle!
> 
> We have lived with a pair of 40 MB DirecTiVo's for years, each with a capacity of about 30 hours. The Sony SAT-T60 (I still have one) only came with 40 MB, although many folks upgraded or added HDD capacity well beyond that.
> 
> My Sony was losing its channel lineup about once every 8-12 months. If it happens once more, DirecTV (protection plan) has agreed to replace it. So, of course, we have gone more than a year since the last failure.


Shouldn't that be GB? Although I do remember the Apple III a friend had with a massive 4kB hard drive.


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## dwynne

lieutenantglorp said:


> Got hit again. Sometime between midday friday and midday saturday. Over three months of uptime, I guess I can't complain.


Me too. I am using HD DTivos mostly now, but still grab some SD stuff on the old SD DTivo. I went to check for something I knew was coming up on a favorite and found I no longer had any favorites - and all channels were now "channels you receive".

Dennis


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## Budget_HT

john-duncan-yoyo said:


> Shouldn't that be GB? Although I do remember the Apple III a friend had with a massive 4kB hard drive.


Yes, it should be GB. Thanks, I'll correct it.


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## Fofer

Budget_HT said:


> Yes, it should be GB. Thanks, I'll correct it.


Hence my initial joke to cvarner, he got it wrong too.


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## Budget_HT

Fofer said:


> Hence my initial joke to cvarner, he got it wrong too.


Wow!

His 80 MB went right by me, I did not even notice it was not GB.

I guess we "read" what we expect to read sometimes instead of reading literally.

I will try to get more sleep to be more awake and more observant.

BTW Fofer, I really appreciate your contributions in the Mac thread.


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## eroseme

Here is a new discovery for those who may still see this. My HR10-250 has never had this problem. My SAT T-60 has gone at least 6 months without seeing it. I used to be able to duplicated it by leaving the tuner set on a music channel. I now use a scheme on my HR10-250 of scheduling a manual recording every night on each tuner to set a default channel to 582. This leaves each tuner on a non-recording channel and the menus go nice and fast (until you tune to an HD channel again). Anyway, I decided to set this scheme on the SAT T-60 too, and immediately I had the favorites gone on 3 straight days (reboot recovers). So it would appear (for me) that tuning the SAT T-60 to non-ordinary channels and leaving it can induce the favorites-disappearing spell.


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## Alecp

I just had what happened to Blankman in post #656 happen to me... all of a sudden it stopped recording, then went to a "satellite info" screen and got the same message "the recorder must re-acquire information from the satellite".... then it starts to go to 100% but fails after getting to a random %-age (sometime 60%, sometimes 95%, etc). 

It says I can view some channels but not all - I go to the guide and get "this channel list has not been set up". I'll try a reboot and see what happens. Too bad this is on my main Tivo and not on the 'backup'... at least it's sunday and I'm home! Missing recordings would be really annoying...

Edit: ok, got it back up and everything looks normal. Just had to re-add my favorite channels. (after re-booting) Annoying... and at least it happened while I was at home, so I didn't miss anything...


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## yani_m

I have a problem that might be related. I always remove shopping channels from the channels I receive list. I never use them, and if I need to, I can see them by changing the guide to all. BUT some of them keep coming back! For example, I keep having to remove 228 GEMS from the channels I receive! Is this a DirecTV gimmick so I will HAVE to see those channels? Anybody else have a problem like that?


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## seymouru

This is a well-known pattern, which is likely due to a business deal that DTV has with the shopping channels, to guarantee that viewers can see them. They pay DTV a nice sum to get on the channel lineup, and DTV prevents viewers from deleting them from their CYR list for any length of time. The only way to keep them off your CYR list is to manually delete them whenever they show up again.


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## phox_mulder

yani_m said:


> I have a problem that might be related. I always remove shopping channels from the channels I receive list. I never use them, and if I need to, I can see them by changing the guide to all. BUT some of them keep coming back! For example, I keep having to remove 228 GEMS from the channels I receive! Is this a DirecTV gimmick so I will HAVE to see those channels? Anybody else have a problem like that?


Yep.

Every other week I go through and make sure the Channels I Recieve are the ones I actually care about.
I'm constantly getting rid of PPV channels, Sports pak channels (MLB, NCAA, NFL, NHL, etc), and shopping channels.

D* is either adding them (sports pak, PPV) or in the case of shopping channels, moving them around perhaps, or just putting them back in after they've been removed.
GEMS is one I remember getting rid of a couple times.

phox


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## dwynne

Just as a point of reference, my Philips lost it stuff one day last week. I mostly use a pair of HD Tivos to record stuff now, but still have the old Philips DTivo recording a few things in SD. The last show it got was on Thursday night of last week (April 6) so I know it failed sometime between then and Sunday when I checked it. Like it has done before every channel was blank and not available. Recordings were missed since the "listing no longer in the guide". A simple reboot fixed it. We did have strong storms with lots of rain and wind on Friday - there was a thought at one time that a weak signal condition could cause this.

Dennis


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## dthreet

Well if you did a clear and delete it will loose logos. You can wait till DirecTV does a update, However you prob get gray hair waiting and have a lifetime of off spring. Otherwise if you and got some spunk you can your 90 day directv warranty by taking the hard drive out and loading PTVupgrades get them back plus all kinds of addons. If you get stuck on welcome powering up. Call DTV and be like i am stuck on powering up. You cant say thats a lie cant say that's a lie.


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## BJBBJB

I am not certain that DirecTV even cares that this is still happening...

However, I can verify that the last software upgrade to cause favorites to go away. Both of my Series 1 units received the 3.5 software upgrades a week apart. They BOTH lost their favorites after the upgrade.

It is bad enough that this happens between software upgrades. It is an insult that a software upgrade also causes it.

Does Directv even still consider this a bug or is it now a feature? I mean this was so obvious, this HAD to happen when they were testing the software upgrade??

BJBBJB


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## rminsk

BJBBJB said:


> However, I can verify that the last software upgrade to cause favorites to go away. Both of my Series 1 units received the 3.5 software upgrades a week apart. They BOTH lost their favorites after the upgrade.


The loosing of the favirotes during the 3.5 upgrade is in the release notes.


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## Budget_HT

Didn't every software upgrade result in losing favorites?


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## BJBBJB

Went back and dug up the notes on the release and see that favorites are indeed lost during 3.5.

I could live with losing them during the upgrade if losing your favorites is fixed going forward (i.e. between software upgrades). But I have not seen that is the case.

They go away on both of my machines every 3 months or so....That isn't from software upgrades.

BJBBJB


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## ck42

Just had this happen to me today on my DTiVo S1, for the first time ever.
What a PITA.


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