# Thinks twice before you post on ebay.



## replaytv

Well, I just got shafted by another buyer on ebay. Now that ebay has made it so you can only say nice things about buyers, the buyers will shaft you if they don't like the way you cross your Ts! 
I sold a Tivo and mailed the buyer it within the time that I said that it would take to get there. But he said that wasn't fast enough, and gave me a bad rating. My feeling is I did what I said I was going to do and he shouldn't have bid on it if he didn't like how long it was going to take. I said it would be there between 5 and 10 days, and it got there in 5 days. Or he should have requested and paid for extra shipping cost to have it overnighted or whatever he wanted. I talked to ebay and they said 'Tough luck sucker!!' 

I have had things like this happen so many times. I just spent an hour talking to ebay people today about a similar incident, that just kept saying the same thing over and over. I don't think they understood good enough English to do anything but read from a script. Katy refused to bring a supervisor online and then dumped me to a dead line that hung up on me. 

So be warned... if you sell something on ebay, the buyer can say anything the want...lies, ridiculous things, and ebay won't do a thing about it. They can ruin your years of building up a perfect reputation in an instant, and ebay will do nothing about it. Even if their emails support you instead of them. Ebay doesn't care a bit. I had a perfect 100% rating for years, and now one person ruined it.

If anyone knows any other methods of selling other than here or on craigslist, I would be interested. I hate to have to use ebay again.


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## magnus

I think you have to ship on time and post your tacking info to the ebay site. If you do all of that then they aren't allowed to use that in the detail ratings or comments for feedback.


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## replaytv

magnus said:


> I think you have to ship on time and post your tacking info to the ebay site. If you do all of that then they aren't allowed to use that in the detail ratings or comments for feedback.


That isn't true. When I talked with ebay they had a list of times that they would change or delete feedback, and none of that was listed. They were very specific and led me to the part of the ebay site that talked about feedback. 
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-removal.html
"What are the guidelines?

eBay may remove or adjust Feedback ratings or comments if:

The Feedback contains inappropriate comments, or violates one of our Feedback policies.

At the time the item ended or the Feedback was left, either member participating in the transaction was unable to form a legally binding contract.

The buyer or seller provided eBay with an email address that is invalid, and the buyer or seller couldn't be contacted at the time of the transaction. See our false or missing contact information policy.

A buyer mistakenly leaves negative or neutral Feedback for the wrong seller, informs eBay of the error, and has left the same Feedback for the intended seller.

A member is suspended by eBay for behavior that we've determined is malicious enough to warrant removing all the negative and neutral Feedback they've left for sellers. Note: If a member is suspended within 90 days of registration, all Feedback left by that member is removed.

eBay is provided with a valid court order requesting Feedback removal.

A buyer fails to respond to a reminder about an unpaid item and the unpaid item is recorded on their account.

A buyer's communication within the Resolution Center undermines the purpose of the unpaid item process and the eBay Feedback system. For example, if a buyer responds to an unpaid item reminder with nonsense text simply to retain the ability to leave Feedback for a seller.

eBay determines at a later date that the seller met the requirements for an automatic 5-star detailed seller rating for the shipping and handling charges category. In these instances, we may adjust the rating to 5 stars.

A buyer leaves a seller negative or neutral Feedback that refers to customs delays or customs fees (see below).


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## lillevig

I don't sell very often on eBay but between them and PayPal, I have absolutely no desire to ever sell on there. Also be aware that if a buyer files a dispute in PayPal instead of in eBay, you will not be able to recoup your sellers fees for a returned item. I sold a Tivo that the buyer claimed did not work (sounded like buyers remorse) and learned that lesson the hard way.


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## magnus

Ok, I've seen it to be true. Maybe there is something that you're not saying. All I know is that they have changed it for me in the past.

I shipped when I said I would and provided tracking. So, maybe your situation is a little different.


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## oregonman

Just getting bad feedback is far from the worst that can happen on ebay. And unless you are selling a lot, what do you care about the bad feedback? If you are selling a lot, you know that you can get bad feedback unjustly. If you aren't selling a lot, you can start a new id and start over with no feedback.

A much bigger problem, especially for people who are not very experienced with ebay is that if you sell on ebay, you are offering a money back guarantee no matter what you say in the listing. Buyers can easily get a refund. Most of the time they have to ship the item back, but scammers have been known to ship back a different item. Or if you fail to get the delivery confirmation or signature confirmation, they may not even have to ship the item back. I don't recommend selling on ebay for casual sellers - you really need to do your homework to protect yourself.


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## replaytv

oregonman said:


> A much bigger problem, especially for people who are not very experienced with ebay is that if you sell on ebay, you are offering a money back guarantee no matter what you say in the listing. Buyers can easily get a refund. Most of the time they have to ship the item back, but scammers have been known to ship back a different item. Or if you fail to get the delivery confirmation or signature confirmation, they may not even have to ship the item back. I don't recommend selling on ebay for casual sellers - you really need to do your homework to protect yourself.


I was wondering about the feature that ebay offers with your money back with shipping included, and wonder where that money comes from. I imagined it came from the buyer, but somethings made me think it didn't always. 
Sounds like ebay is getting scarier all the time. When I first started on ebay about 10 years ago, I never had trouble buying or selling, but is seems now there are just a bunch of people that want to complain and dispute the silliest things. And ebay supports those cry babies totally. 
eBay seems to be a great place to buy, but terrible to sell.


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## magnus

replaytv said:


> I was wondering about the feature that ebay offers with your money back with shipping included, and wonder where that money comes from. I imagined it came from the buyer, but somethings made me think it didn't always.
> Sounds like ebay is getting scarier all the time. When I first started on ebay about 10 years ago, I never had trouble buying or selling, but is seems now there are just a bunch of people that want to complain and dispute the silliest things. And ebay supports those cry babies totally.
> eBay seems to be a great place to buy, but terrible to sell.


Unfortunately, there is not a whole lot of choice out there. I've tried to find alternatives and there just are not any good ones.


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## MikeAndrews

replaytv said:


> ...If anyone knows any other methods of selling other than here or on craigslist, I would be interested. I hate to have to use ebay again.


Sell on Amazon marketplace. I've sold 5 things so far with no trouble. The best thing is that you can set your price and wait until somebody bites.


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## Soapm

I can't remember the last time I bought off ebay. In the past the cost savings made them worth the risk but I don't see many cost savings there anymore so I might as well buy where I can take it back no hassle. 

So much work you have to put into reading all the feedback etc...


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## replaytv

I actually buy a lot of stuff on ebay. And have good results for the most part. It is a pain to have to ship stuff back that isn't 'as described' but that rarely happens. And with eBays' newer policy of guaranteeing your money back to include shipping, I have good luck. I buy lots for batteries for less than what they cost me at Walmart or anywhere else, including shipping! Mostly speciality batteries for older cameras. About the only thing I really have had trouble with is a handle for my tailgate on my truck. The chrome is failing off after a couple of years. That shouldn't be happening. 

It is selling that I am having trouble. But I will look into Amazon.


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## MeInDallas

Everytime I have ever sold anything on Ebay I always put on my auctions in big bold letters *Your feedback gets mine!*

I know a lot of people dont like that, but its just a way of protecting myself against me giving feedback first, and then someone turning around and giving me a bad feedback for some out of the blue reason. I have been burned that way in the past, so I wont do it again. Some people have written me and said they wont buy from me that way, and I just tell them well if you cant agree to that then maybe its not good for us to do business. Selling on Ebay can be a pain though. I buy way more than I sell anyways.


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## dswallow

MeInDallas said:


> Everytime I have ever sold anything on Ebay I always put on my auctions in big bold letters *Your feedback gets mine!*
> 
> I know a lot of people dont like that, but its just a way of protecting myself against me giving feedback first, and then someone turning around and giving me a bad feedback for some out of the blue reason. I have been burned that way in the past, so I wont do it again. Some people have written me and said they wont buy from me that way, and I just tell them well if you cant agree to that then maybe its not good for us to do business. Selling on Ebay can be a pain though. I buy way more than I sell anyways.


Does that even matter anymore? Sellers can't leave negative feedback.


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## MeInDallas

dswallow said:


> Does that even matter anymore? Sellers can't leave negative feedback.


Well I suppose it matters because you can still leave a comment that everyone will see and can read, and then if they leave negative feedback for the seller, you can reply to their negative feedback as well. So there still is an option, and I do read others feedback when they are bidding on something of mine. I have been known to reject someones bid if they are a new buyer and have no feedback as well.


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## replaytv

I wish there was a way that I could reject, or at least filter whom can bid on my items. I know there are some controls when you list, but they are more of a joke than something useful. It would be nice after a auction that you could check the bidders record, and then if you don't like the look of them, you could offer the item to the next bidder (and get less money). But the way it is now, if you reject someone they can leave bad feedback on you and in most cases eBays says 'Sorry sucker!!'


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## MeInDallas

Did they eliminate where you could reject bids as well? Used to you could look at someones feedback that places a bid on your item before the auction ends, and if they had bad feedback or no feedback you could reject their bid before the auction ends. Maybe they changed that too, been awhile since I did it.


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## Arcady

I stopped selling on eBay. I have a 500+ rating and I don't want it ruined because of the nonsense. I have two lifetime TiVos sitting unused but I don't want to bother with the headache of incompetent buyers.


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## Chris Gerhard

I still sell on eBay but I agree the situation with bad buyers is a big problem. I found a site that lists bad buyers, checked to see if a couple of the bad buyers I have dealt with were on the list, they were, I copied and pasted the entire list to my blocked bidders list. I am willing to accept the risk some of those buyers are not really bad. Fortunately after 13 years on eBay, I have only had about 12 bad buyers but about 10 have been since eBay started preventing negative feedback.


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## Chris Gerhard

MeInDallas said:


> Well I suppose it matters because you can still leave a comment that everyone will see and can read, and then if they leave negative feedback for the seller, you can reply to their negative feedback as well. So there still is an option, and I do read others feedback when they are bidding on something of mine. I have been known to reject someones bid if they are a new buyer and have no feedback as well.


Negative comments with positive feedback are removed by eBay at the recipients request.


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## replaytv

Chris Gerhard said:


> Negative comments with positive feedback are removed by eBay at the recipients request.


That is true as far as feedback, but if someone leaves negative feedback, you can reply to that (it is not leaving feedback) and as long as it doesn't mention paypal or has bad language, it is allowed. Or this is what the ebay agent said and I did leave it and it has not been removed.

Since I talked to eBay, I have found in their literature that I might be able to have my negative feedback removed because the bidder didn't qualify to bid on my item because he didn't have a verified name as required by my listing. I mentioned that a million times to the two agents I talked to, but I found were it was written on their own website, so I might have a chance. The website said that the feedback could be removed if a valid contract wasn't completed. So I am going to write to ebay about that. Or maybe it would be better to call. I am not sure. If I call I might have better luck, as they would need to make a decision then and now and wouldn't have time to discuss it with everyone at break or lunch time.


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## maeella

I understand selling ebay can be tricky but as one person with over 54,000 sales perhaps I can provide a few hints. List in the correct CATEGORY, provide ITEM SPECIFICS, use the DETAILED ITEM INFO available for your unit, provide clear PHOTOS of the unit you are selling from each of the 6 sides (top and bottom) start the bidding at the lowest price you are willing to accept, provide a good buy it now price, too. This may be researched by doing a search on completed auctions. Only select to ship to places that you can provide fast service to (for me it is only USA and Canada) Include a shipping fee that will get the unit to the bidder quickly either USPS priority or a guaranteed UPS 3 day. I roll the fee in my asking price so I can offer "FREE SHIPPING" and this is when you get automatic 5 stars for price of shipping. They either want to pay for it or they do not. Pack the item properly with padding and packing so it will not shift or get crushed. Provide online tracking with delivery confirmation. Email upon receipt of payment. Email upon shipping and include the tracking number. Include a message that requests the buyer contact you in case of trouble in each email and with the actual product. Finally, ONLY write in full and honest descriptions and whalah! You will not get a negative feedback from anyone if you actually do all this. Being antagonistic to bidders saying things in all caps like "your feedback gets mine" puts the whole process off on a bad start. How about: "when I know you are satisfied then I will post your feedback" It is not easy to sell on ebay - especially an electronic item but I do know how to sell without getting negatives. I have not had one in over 6 months now and I have sold over 4000 this past year, alone.


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## replaytv

maeella said:


> You will not get a negative feedback from anyone if you actually do all this.


What is your ebay site? With over54,000 sales, I want to see a seller with no negatives


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## maeella

replaytv said:


> What is your ebay site? With over54,000 sales, I want to see a seller with no negatives


I am not saying for one second this is easy so dont be offended, replaytv. Please reread- I say I have done over 4000 this past year and my last negative was over 6 months ago. One other thing I don't think I said but will now is that I do not just sell to anyone. I use the strongest filters that ebay has AND I do not give out my identity to strangers. I am currently a silver powerseller and, of course, top-rated seller. I think the key here is to welcome people in a positive way to shopping with you, be forthright and not antagonistic. For example: leading with comments regarding feedback discourages regular folks and only encourages those that look forward to a battle. Not someone I want shopping with me! After 12 years on ebay I have learned that the biggest expense is someone who gets something and is unhappy. Each unhappy person costs me no less than $20 to PREVENT a negative from occurring. Since my incentive is my 20% off final value fees for no negatives - it is a double whammy for me to get one. About 3 years back I finally figured out how to sell without getting them. I do get the occasional nut that gives one ("I didn't read what this was" type negative) but that is something nobody can stop. I do show about 1 in 1000 usually on those and my items for sale are the risky business of fashion jewelry. Finicky moody buyers there! I think selling something in the area of electronics attracts a certain type usually that might fall in the range of perfectionist nerdy type. The foreseeable problems with them could be predicted as using a stock photo and then they get a perfectly fine item that has - say- a paint smudge on it. For that kind of person it could trigger negative feedback. That is just an example based on my experiences of selling. You get certain types of shoppers with certain types of products and you have to gear your auction to them. Like I said- it is not just like throwing up a craigslist ad where you can speak with the person. You have to assume the other person is drunk shopping at 3AM, does not read English, and is out looking for a fight while you create your auction. (haha) It just is not easy to do but I think it is possible to accomplish. BTW: I cannot count how many of those 12 years that I lost $$ selling all year.


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## maeella

magnus said:


> I think you have to ship on time and post your tacking info to the ebay site. If you do all of that then they aren't allowed to use that in the detail ratings or comments for feedback.


You are 1/2 correct because it is automated 5 star ratings for speed of shipping. That will join the free shipping automated 5 star rating for cost of shipping. Here is copy/paste from eBay:
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Starting in April, youll get an automatic 5-star Detailed Seller Rating (DSR) for communication when you specify 1-day handling, upload tracking by the end of the next business day, and no communication was needed between you and the buyer. (Weekends and holidays do not count as business days).

------------------
As always, feedback can refer to almost anything. The only negative that qualifies for comment related removal that I am aware of is when the negative from an international sale refers to a customs delay.


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## Chris Gerhard

maeella said:


> I understand selling ebay can be tricky but as one person with over 54,000 sales perhaps I can provide a few hints. List in the correct CATEGORY, provide ITEM SPECIFICS, use the DETAILED ITEM INFO available for your unit, provide clear PHOTOS of the unit you are selling from each of the 6 sides (top and bottom) start the bidding at the lowest price you are willing to accept, provide a good buy it now price, too. This may be researched by doing a search on completed auctions. Only select to ship to places that you can provide fast service to (for me it is only USA and Canada) Include a shipping fee that will get the unit to the bidder quickly either USPS priority or a guaranteed UPS 3 day. I roll the fee in my asking price so I can offer "FREE SHIPPING" and this is when you get automatic 5 stars for price of shipping. They either want to pay for it or they do not. Pack the item properly with padding and packing so it will not shift or get crushed. Provide online tracking with delivery confirmation. Email upon receipt of payment. Email upon shipping and include the tracking number. Include a message that requests the buyer contact you in case of trouble in each email and with the actual product. Finally, ONLY write in full and honest descriptions and whalah! You will not get a negative feedback from anyone if you actually do all this. Being antagonistic to bidders saying things in all caps like "your feedback gets mine" puts the whole process off on a bad start. How about: "when I know you are satisfied then I will post your feedback" It is not easy to sell on ebay - especially an electronic item but I do know how to sell without getting negatives. I have not had one in over 6 months now and I have sold over 4000 this past year, alone.


If you are able to make a profit selling on eBay, I have to hand it to you. I sure can't but it is often the best way to sell things I don't need or can't sell using other methods so I use my 50 free listings a month and it works out well enough that I plan to continue since I still have hundreds of items I need to sell.


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## maeella

Thanks but it is my full time business for 12 years now so not like I am a genius. I have learned some hard lessons that are only taught by doing it, though, and that is what I can share. Strangest one? Like how Germany has some strange laws that can allow a person to retrieve their money on a product purchase months after expressing satisfaction with it. And they don't have to return it, either. Lesson? I don't sell to Germany.


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## replaytv

maeella said:


> BTW: I cannot count how many of those 12 years that I lost $$ selling all year.


Does that mean that you lost money for many years selling on ebay? 
I have never had a year that I lost money selling on ebay or craigslist. I _HAVE _ had particular items that I have lost money, but overall I have always made money. Otherwise I would just donate the stuff to the thrift store and save a lot of time and trouble.


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## maeella

Yes, I started in 1998 with $5000. actually and made good money to live on and expand my business until 2005. I got super-cancer (stage 3B) and had to stop completely for 2 years. In 2007 I had over $150,000 worth of (manufactured price) new merchandise. Lots of med bills, no insurance - and nobody will ever insure me again, 2 kids to feed and now get through college, nothing - just a home to repair and live in, and that ton of new merchandise. I used to be a plumber but am unable to work like that ever again now. I am unable to use my arm. so, now that my kids are old enough where I could go back I am unable to because of physical limitations. 

Yes, I have a real eBay business. Right along with everyone else in the USA I did not need to read the paper to see retail markets were really bad. I lived it. I finally turned a good profit in 2011 and finished my cancer treatment in July after 6 years. I did work around 60- 80 hours every single week minus July/August. This past year I made over $75,000 of profit to pay some of those med bills. Glad I didn't donate any of it to a thrift store! haha but you know seriously I do my share of donations, too. 

Like I said - learning how to sell as best I can has been a long road with lots of lessons for me. Some people have a better sense for it. Maybe you. I sure have had my load of issues and think I have lots ironed out finally. I can always learn plenty, though. I think USED electronics is probably one of the harder things to sell. I know just shipping is a real job right there! If you have never lost money selling them then you are one good seller and I guess should be feeding me tricks! 

I see Craigslist junkie describing you. THAT is hard too, as I understand.


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