# Anyone with Pemicell experience?



## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

Finally got my Nokia 3 Premicell so I can update Tivo over my mobile.

The premicell works great for voice, no problems at all... BUT....

When Tivo makes its daily call, no joy.  

You can hear the dialing, and then the starting of nogociated handshaking, but they will not establish. If I connect to a landline all is fine, just wont connect on the premicell

Has Anyone got any experience on this... I cannot find anything in the Premicell manual to help me.

I am thinking, that as the GSM is limited to 9,600 and the modemin the Tivo is what? 56K, there is some problem with them negociating.

Any prefixes I could use that might help?

Dave


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## TCM2007 (Dec 25, 2006)

What's a Premicell?


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

TCM2007 said:


> What's a Premicell?


A Premicell, is a clever terminal box that converts a free standing home phone (BT Plug) into a GSM phone.

OK that's an over simplification of it and it's uses. I am using it because my Touring caravan does not have a landline phone that Tivo requires. The Premicell or GSM Gateway, has a Sim card in it, you plug Tivo into it and it allows Tivo to dial out to wherever it wants, via GSM... or at least that's the theory.

I have know problems with voice... it's truly great!, but Tivo..... I need some help...

Dave


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## wonderboy (May 27, 2003)

If it's just the tivo that is having handshake problems, you could try using a pstn(modem) dial-up router to connect to the internet, then let tivo use turbonet / cachecard to update over the Internet, once you find an ISP that does connect!

That would certainly test out the premicall.


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## Fred Smith (Oct 5, 2002)

Bakdraft you might want to post a link to your previous post which lead to you getting premicell.

According to the User's Guide, section 6 page 11 downloadable here:

http://europe.nokia.com/A4143601

"Note: a normal landline modem is not compatible with the terminal, so you cannot connect it to the terminal's 'phone or fax' socket."


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## benallenuk (Aug 1, 2005)

I know the tivo can be conencted to an external modem via the serial port, the premicell supports data via serial. Maybe you could have a play this that.


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

Fred Smith said:


> Bakdraft you might want to post a link to your previous post which lead to you getting premicell.
> 
> According to the User's Guide, section 6 page 11 downloadable here:
> 
> ...


Interesting information... the premicell you refer to is not the same as mine... as mine is a newer 32. My manual does not make the same statement, but that said, I have a feeling this must still be true though, as the 32 also has a separate modem.


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

benallenuk said:


> I know the tivo can be conencted to an external modem via the serial port, the premicell supports data via serial. Maybe you could have a play this that.


I have not heard that the serial port can be used in this way.... do you know of a link?


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

wonderboy said:


> If it's just the tivo that is having handshake problems, you could try using a pstn(modem) dial-up router to connect to the internet, then let tivo use turbonet / cachecard to update over the Internet, once you find an ISP that does connect!
> 
> That would certainly test out the premicall.


Intersting idea, but that involves signifcant more investment on something that may not work. These devices are not cheap or easily available.

But every idea is worth a thought! so thanks.....


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## terryeden (Nov 2, 2002)

You want to get the "phone" to establish a GPRS connection (packet data at 56Kbps rather than circuit data at 9.6kbps).

You should ask it to dial *#99# (or similar) to establish a connection. Search the manual for GPRS or Packet Data for the correct settings.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

terryeden said:


> You want to get the "phone" to establish a GPRS connection (packet data at 56Kbps rather than circuit data at 9.6kbps).
> 
> You should ask it to dial *#99# (or similar) to establish a connection. Search the manual for GPRS or Packet Data for the correct settings.


But make sure you are using a SIM card with data rates you can afford as GPRS data is charged on a data quantity basis and not a timed basis and is prohibitively expensive unless you are on a tariff like TMobile WebnWalk that you say only use once a week at £1 per time and then using a timer not on the other 6 days of the week.............


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

terryeden said:


> You want to get the "phone" to establish a GPRS connection (packet data at 56Kbps rather than circuit data at 9.6kbps).
> 
> You should ask it to dial *#99# (or similar) to establish a connection. Search the manual for GPRS or Packet Data for the correct settings.


Thanks Terry..

I take it that the *#99# is a prefix code to go into Tivo?

I take it you got the prefix from some other premicell or something?

The manual only talks about the types of GPRS the premicell can adopt... nothing more than that.... But then using GPRS... will I still not have the problem that the Two modems... ( Tivo and UUnet ) will not synchronise?


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> But make sure you are using a SIM card with data rates you can afford as GPRS data is charged on a data quantity basis and not a timed basis and is prohibitively expensive unless you are on a tariff like TMobile WebnWalk that you say only use once a week at £1 per time and then using a timer not on the other 6 days of the week.............


Thanks Pete,

your assumption is that the daily download is big and thus takes time, my assumption was that it would be relatively small ( I have asked if anyone knows the size but no reply) as 100K of text is massive, and then Tivo sends it compressed!

I had hoped to just see how I would get on with GSM... and if it was too slow... well then I would have looked elsewhere..

Dave


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Dave - I think no-one answered your question about download size because no-one knows the answer.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

Bakdraft said:


> your assumption is that the daily download is big and thus takes time, my assumption was that it would be relatively small ( I have asked if anyone knows the size but no reply) as 100K of text is massive, and then Tivo sends it compressed!
> 
> I had hoped to just see how I would get on with GSM... and if it was too slow... well then I would have looked elsewhere..


Having stationed a Tivo at a relatives a couple of years back that was only doing its downloads once a week by 0800 dial up (when I visited and plugged it in) I can say it was taking 5 minutes or more of downloading of NTL Digital data when several days data were involved. A56k modem can do 12MB per hour or something like that at full tilt so you could be talking about 1MB of data for a 5 minute call after a week or so of not downloading. May be a typical daily call is 150k. The call is a lot longer for Sky or Virgin Media than it is for a Freeview only setup. Shorter still for aerial only.

All I'm saying is if you are going to get charged data rates be very careful as people like Vodafone charge serious abusive prices on PAYG like £8 per MB or more!


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Well, a 56k modem rarely connects at 56k - more often 44k or 48k (for example).

Using a tool to throttle data throughput to specific rates, I got a data transfer rate of ~3400 bytes a second at those speeds.

Which means that you have (5 * 60) * 3400 bytes = 5 * 204000 bytes

Which equals 1,020,000 bytes in total = ~996Kb = ~1Mb

Now someone will point out an error in my maths.


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

ColinYounger said:


> Well, a 56k modem rarely connects at 56k - more often 44k or 48k (for example).
> 
> Using a tool to throttle data throughput to specific rates, I got a data transfer rate of ~3400 bytes a second at those speeds.
> 
> ...


Do you really mean ~3400 bytes or do you mean ~3400 bits ? and where does the 5 come into it?


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

I meant bytes - I find it easier to think in bytes than the 10 bits of modem traffic. Colour me strange. 

The five is the five minutes Pete mentioned in his message:


Pete77 said:


> I can say it was taking 5 minutes or more of downloading of NTL Digital data


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Just to cover the 10 bits thing - in kilobit traffic figures you have to account for the 8 bits of a 'real' byte plus a start and stop bit. 

Doing a quick search for 56k speeds turns up a few websites that compare speeds of modems, which basically show that YMMV.

Also, I discovered that the data returned from the 'TiVo Mothership' (i.e. where your TiVo calls) is supplied in something called 'slices'. Dunno if that might be helpful in searches in other places or not - haven't got time to research much further at this point, sorry!


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

ColinYounger said:


> Just to cover the 10 bits thing - in kilobit traffic figures you have to account for the 8 bits of a 'real' byte plus a start and stop bit.
> 
> Doing a quick search for 56k speeds turns up a few websites that compare speeds of modems, which basically show that YMMV.
> 
> Also, I discovered that the data returned from the 'TiVo Mothership' (i.e. where your TiVo calls) is supplied in something called 'slices'. Dunno if that might be helpful in searches in other places or not - haven't got time to research much further at this point, sorry!


You're ahead of me... I asked if it was in bytes to see if I could trip you up on the 10 bits as oposed to 8.... there are no flies on you .... no sir!


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

I'm surprised that neither TCM or blindlemon have so far been able to point us to the exact file that either gets created, deleted and/or cleared out etc in the logs in the process of making a daily call.

If we could some how identify the file then it would surely be possible to keep track of changes in its size during the daily call cycle process using FileZilla, Cute FTP or any other appropriate FTP accessing software. This in turn woul then be likely to identify the changes in file size taking place and the possible size of the overall file download.


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## SteveA (Oct 30, 2000)

Bakdraft said:


> A Premicell, is a clever terminal box that converts a free standing home phone (BT Plug) into a GSM phone.
> 
> OK that's an over simplification of it and it's uses. I am using it because my Touring caravan does not have a landline phone that Tivo requires. The Premicell or GSM Gateway, has a Sim card in it, you plug Tivo into it and it allows Tivo to dial out to wherever it wants, via GSM... or at least that's the theory.
> 
> ...


Dave

My apologies if my comments about Premicells a few months back lead to you make this purchase - however I did point out that I'd never actually tried to use one for data!

I've done some Googling, and interestingly, someone in this very group, in 2002, claimed to have used a Premicell with a Tivo in their motorhome. Maybe you could try to track them down for advice?

Here's a link to the message:

http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57989

They do actually state that they plugged the TiVo modem cable into the Premicell, not that they used the RS232 port. Maybe there's a bunch of AT commands you can send to the modem to allow it to use slower speeds.


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## Bakdraft (Dec 21, 2002)

SteveA said:


> Dave
> 
> My apologies if my comments about Premicells a few months back lead to you make this purchase - however I did point out that I'd never actually tried to use one for data!
> 
> ...


Steve, it was your suggestion that made me buy the premicell... but that's absolutely no problem! 

I value your help! I decided that if it didn't work I could easily re-sell it, providing I got a good one.

The Premicell it's self is great for voice... I am really impressed!

The link you provided is interesting.... as it seems to prove it should work... but in my case not.

I will try to contact him....

Thanks again for your help Steve :up:


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