# This is what I expected



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This is what I thought we were getting with this device...

TiVo's Next-Gen Platform for managed Android TV™ devices

I thought they were just using that platform with Sling replacing the MSO Cloud DVR. Instead we essentially got an app that barely integrates with the device at all with the exception of the special button on the remote.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

The Stream4K UI is a complete joke IMO, worse than the current TiVO DVRs as far as integration with streaming services. To make matters worse the TiVo database on streaming titles is woefully incomplete. You would think that now they have a device that actually focuses on integration with streaming services they may have done something to fix the incomplete data, but it's the same junk we've had for years.


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## cybergrimes (Jun 15, 2015)

Yeah I thought it was going to be a custom UI, something unique to pull ahead of the Android TV crowd. The marketing and product pages leading to launch didn't make it clear, at least to me.


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## jimpmc (Oct 31, 2001)

moyekj said:


> The Stream4K UI is a complete joke IMO, worse than the current TiVO DVRs as far as integration with streaming services. To make matters worse the TiVo database on streaming titles is woefully incomplete. You would think that now they have a device that actually focuses on integration with streaming services they may have done something to fix the incomplete data, but it's the same junk we've had for years.


I'm not going to be that harsh -- given the pricepoint it is basically a Chromecast 4k with the remote and full Android TV. It's not like we paid a premium for it, compared to the nVidia Shield @ $149/$199.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

jimpmc said:


> I'm not going to be that harsh -- given the pricepoint it is basically a Chromecast 4k with the remote and full Android TV. It's not like we paid a premium for it, compared to the nVidia Shield @ $149/$199.


Right, I think the hardware is worth $50, but the TiVo overlay is not worth much of anything.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

The biggest disappointment for me is the remote. I love the basic size and shape, but the button placement is wonky and the lack of play/pause is silly when most apps expect it.


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## runbadgerrun (Jan 20, 2014)

I really thought we would get the Hydra experience on an AndroidTV platform with the Tivo UI taking over the device. The experience in that video is much more in line with what I was expecting. I am not too disappointed though. I have learned that the UI for AndroidTV is much better than Roku IMHO. So it will at least replace my Roku or at least will when my free AppleTV sub expires.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

Dan203 said:


> The biggest disappointment for me is the remote. I love the basic size and shape, but the button placement is wonky and the lack of play/pause is silly when most apps expect it.


I agree the lack of dedicated play/pause button is a silly oversight, but easily overcome by re-mapping another button (I used button 2) for that function.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Someone mentioned this in another thread and they were exactly right... what I really wanted was a Mini that ran Android TV. I don't really care about Sling integration, I'm going to cancel that before the trial expires. What I really wanted was a complete TiVo UI that could run all the modern apps. I knew this device wouldn't integrate with my TiVo like a Mini, but I still expected the UI to be more or less a Mini without the ability to play my TiVo recordings. 

And really why doesn't TiVo do that? They could sell it in tandem with a new OTA DVR, perhaps headless to make it cheaper, and recreate the full TiVo experience for people instead of this knockoff. If they could also integrate it with Sling or some other OTT service for the cord cutters then great. I'm sure the hardware needed for this would be more expensive but $100-$150 for a new Mini wouldn't be out of the question for most people.


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## Acerxz (Mar 6, 2002)

I don't even understand why they released this at all. All they needed to do was make an app that turns your 
android tv, roku, Apple TV into a mini. They could have just released that to the various play stores and charged for it. Why make hardware? Most people already have a streamer box of choice. I have a shield and it's awesome. Why would I buy this android tv device from tivo? It makes no sense.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Acerxz said:


> I don't even understand why they released this at all. All they needed to do was make an app that turns your
> android tv, roku, Apple TV into a mini. They could have just released that to the various play stores and charged for it. Why make hardware? Most people already have a streamer box of choice. I have a shield and it's awesome. Why would I buy this android tv device from tivo? It makes no sense.


To keep their brand relevant and capitalize on one of their best aspects... their remote. (although this particular version isn't that great)

Also releasing an app that acts like a Mini wouldn't work as well as you'd think. TiVos record the raw input stream from your cable company, which in a lot of cases isn't compatible with most streaming hardware. Most streaming devices can't decode interlaced video, MPEG-2 video or even MP2 audio without resorting to software decoders which, for anyone that's ever used VLC on a streaming stick knows, can be hit and miss. To maximize compatibility they'd need to use the transcoder like they do mobile streaming. The problem there is that it's not very reliable and doesn't provide the best user experience. Anyone that uses the streaming app can tell you that it's not the best user experience and not really ideal for heavy use.

Although I think there is still a possibility they could release an app like this for Android TV. Perhaps not Apple or Roku, but maybe for this new device. It wont work that great, and a lot of people will probably complain about it, but I still think there is a possibility we'll see this eventually. Although I wouldn't hold my breath.


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## jimpmc (Oct 31, 2001)

Acerxz said:


> I don't even understand why they released this at all. All they needed to do was make an app that turns your
> android tv, roku, Apple TV into a mini. They could have just released that to the various play stores and charged for it. Why make hardware? Most people already have a streamer box of choice. I have a shield and it's awesome. Why would I buy this android tv device from tivo? It makes no sense.


As others have mentioned, the # of TiVo DVR subs is small -- so providing playback from a TiVo DVR as the main selling point is niche. I agree it would have been nice to have a TiVo or Mini that also ran Android TV. But in addition to being a small market, that probably would have cost too much and taken too much time to get the hardware right. They basically rebranded the existing AirTV and added the Stream App.

There is a real need for universal search and content tracking. Many companies are vying for the space -- even Google. The biggest payback for the developers on that is probably all of the data on viewing habits, etc.


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## cybergrimes (Jun 15, 2015)

Dan203 said:


> Also releasing an app that acts like a Mini wouldn't work as well as you'd think. TiVos record the raw input stream from your cable company, which in a lot of cases isn't compatible with most streaming hardware. Most streaming devices can't decode interlaced video, MPEG-2 video or even MP2 audio without resorting to software decoders which, for anyone that's ever used VLC on a streaming stick knows, can be hit and miss. To maximize compatibility they'd need to use the transcoder like they do mobile streaming. The problem there is that it's not very reliable and doesn't provide the best user experience. Anyone that uses the streaming app can tell you that it's not the best user experience and not really ideal for heavy use.


I wonder though, 99% of apps on Android TV use Exoplayer for playback, which seems pretty versatile to me. It handles MPEGTS just fine, with this new device I've played a bit of 1080i OTA too without a bother. I can't speak for those cable company recordings though.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

I just got a Sony TV with Android TV two days ago.

So it comes down to the app, and I can't figure out what makes Tivo's app supporting a handful of services remotely worth an extra $50 when a free one like Reelgood exists that covers tons of services. The recommendation algorithm? Meh.

If/when this thing can stream from DVRs, I'll reevaluate. I'm no longer giving Tivo any interest-free loans in the hopes their products deliver in the future.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

cybergrimes said:


> I wonder though, 99% of apps on Android TV use Exoplayer for playback, which seems pretty versatile to me. It handles MPEGTS just fine, with this new device I've played a bit of 1080i OTA too without a bother. I can't speak for those cable company recordings though.


Maybe the main CPU in these devices has gotten fast enough that using software based decoding isn't as big of a deal as it use to be. But I don't think TiVos system is really designed for that. Their hardware, including the Mini, uses a chip based encryption to be able to stream and decode the original recording. For the mobile app they transcode on the TiVo itself (or the external Stream which also has that encryption chip) and then convert to HLS with https encryption. Maybe they could forgo the transocde and just do the HLS remux, but that could still present some of the same usability issues as the current mobile app. Any sort of conversion would introduce latency in trick play.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Streaming off a Tivo DVR seems like a dead deal. This new device for $50 is a bargain for a Android TV device. Just wait for all the bug fixes, then never launch the TiVO Stream app, just use the apps you like. The integration with Sling is a joke, its just a troll app right now. Time will tell if its really useful for anything.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Acerxz said:


> I don't even understand why they released this at all. All they needed to do was make an app that turns your
> android tv, roku, Apple TV into a mini. They could have just released that to the various play stores and charged for it. Why make hardware? Most people already have a streamer box of choice. I have a shield and it's awesome. Why would I buy this android tv device from tivo? It makes no sense.


They really did not make the hardware, its just based of a generic Andoid TV developer dongle, slightly modified for Tivo

https://www.seirobotics.net/atv-hdmi-dongle


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## Acerxz (Mar 6, 2002)

foghorn2 said:


> They really did not make the hardware, its just based of a generic Andoid TV developer dongle, slightly modified for Tivo
> 
> https://www.seirobotics.net/atv-hdmi-dongle


I know. What I'm saying is there is no point. They could have just released the app, but as the app is right now how many of you would pay for it?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Acerxz said:


> I don't even understand why they released this at all. All they needed to do was make an app that turns your
> android tv, roku, Apple TV into a mini. They could have just released that to the various play stores and charged for it. Why make hardware? Most people already have a streamer box of choice. I have a shield and it's awesome. Why would I buy this android tv device from tivo? It makes no sense.


I think people are willing to pay a premium for the mini to forego additional outlet and equipment charges from the cable company. Tivo isn't going to disrupt that revenue stream. Even the older model minis sell at a good price on amazon or ebay.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

I haven't used the STReam but from what I read on here it's exactly what I expected.

...because I've used TE4, I have experienced Tivo's integration of streaming with the recordings on their DVR and my streaming device happens to also do a 1 UI for all streaming services that has given me some insight into the some of the business issues as well usability issues of a 1 UI future. Plus I knew this was Tivo's first attempt and that they are on their 2nd merger in a short period and that they don't design the hardware themselves any longer and they've laid off lots of people. And after the 2nd merger they are still going to offload the product division.

Not saying that I heard was completely bad. But just pretty much as expected. STreams your stuff. Does fine at it. But you're not missing out on anything by not getting the Tivo STream 4k except not having a more rough around the edges product gen 1 product.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

shwru980r said:


> I think people are willing to pay a premium for the mini to forego additional outlet and equipment charges from the cable company. Tivo isn't going to disrupt that revenue stream. Even the older model minis sell at a good price on amazon or ebay.


Then they should make a Mini that runs on Android TV so we can have the Mini AND access to all the apps in the same device. They've been making an MSO Android TV device for a couple years now that runs on essentially the same Broadcom chipset as the Mini. Why not just release that as a consumer device?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

trip1eX said:


> I haven't used the STReam but from what I read on here it's exactly what I expected.
> 
> ...because I've used TE4, I have experienced Tivo's integration of streaming with the recordings on their DVR and my streaming device happens to also do a 1 UI for all streaming services that has given me some insight into the some of the business issues as well usability issues of a 1 UI future. Plus I knew this was Tivo's first attempt and that they are on their 2nd merger in a short period and that they don't design the hardware themselves any longer and they've laid off lots of people. And after the 2nd merger they are still going to offload the product division.
> 
> Not saying that I heard was completely bad. But just pretty much as expected.


Actually it's exactly not that, which is what most of us don't like about it. It's basically just a vanilla Android TV device with a TiVo app that you can't delete. That's all. You could use the device without ever seeing the TiVo UI if you wanted. And that TiVo UI is not anything like any TiVo UI you've ever used anyway. If it weren't for the little TiVo guy icon in the corner and the use of "My Shows" you'd never even know it was a TiVo app.

I actually wanted a device with the 1 UI like you're describing, but that's not what we got.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> Actually it's exactly not that, which is what most of us don't like about it. It's basically just a vanilla Android TV device with a TiVo app that you can't delete. That's all. You could use the device without ever seeing the TiVo UI if you wanted. And that TiVo UI is not anything like any TiVo UI you've ever used anyway. If it weren't for the little TiVo guy icon in the corner and the use of "My Shows" you'd never even know it was a TiVo app.
> 
> I actually wanted a device with the 1 UI like you're describing, but that's not what we got.


No I expected it to be what it is - a run of the mill rough around the edges 1st gen lower end streaming box.

I never believed in the 1 UI future. I never thought Tivo would deliver on it based on their dvrs and TE4 and them laying off people and going thru mergers. I also thought the 1 UI future is over-rated based on using my other streaming device. So I never thought that was going to amount to anything.


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## omelet1978 (Mar 7, 2006)

moyekj said:


> I agree the lack of dedicated play/pause button is a silly oversight, but easily overcome by re-mapping another button (I used button 2) for that function.


I'm confused. I just assumed that the play pause buttons were in the center circle area on the remote and just not labeled. Not having a fast forward, play/pause, and rewind buttons on the remote seems pretty strange.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

moyekj said:


> *The Stream4K UI is a complete joke IMO, worse than the current TiVO DVRs as far as integration with streaming services*. To make matters worse the TiVo database on streaming titles is woefully incomplete. You would think that now they have a device that actually focuses on integration with streaming services they may have done something to fix the incomplete data, but it's the same junk we've had for years.


This is SO true. I've told TiVo repeatedly that this is pure garbage. But, for some reason, they don't listen to me.


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## moyekj (Jan 24, 2006)

omelet1978 said:


> I'm confused. I just assumed that the play pause buttons were in the center circle area on the remote and just not labeled. Not having a fast forward, play/pause, and rewind buttons on the remote seems pretty strange.


 Those are select and arrow keys. The select key is not a dedicated play/pause button that many streaming device remotes have. For video applications you can use the select key to get to pause/play function, but usually that means 2 or more presses of the button to accomplish that versus a dedicated button to perform the function with 1 press.


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## Dan Clarke (Jun 14, 2002)

I bought the stream because I miss the TiVo interface and remote.

I have a 2016 Sony 4K TV..and it has android TV built in...but it is very slow. I've used a Roku stick (slow), an Ultra (fast but for some reason the stupid volume display is always on the TV and the Roku overheats often), and an AppleTV (great device, no ads, horrid remote). 

I really thought I was getting something other than an Android stick but the TiVo Stream app is useless if you have YTTV. Sling isn't a bad service, it's just not for me because of a lack of locals (yes you can use Locast but no DVR there)....And no HBO go on the stream app but HBO Now? Weird. 

This could be something...but it really feels like an alpha or beta. And how do they screw up CEC?


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> Then they should make a Mini that runs on Android TV so we can have the Mini AND access to all the apps in the same device. They've been making an MSO Android TV device for a couple years now that runs on essentially the same Broadcom chipset as the Mini. Why not just release that as a consumer device?


The only reason I can think of is that the MSO's forbid them from from doing so.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Acerxz said:


> I don't even understand why they released this at all. All they needed to do was make an app that turns your
> android tv, roku, Apple TV into a mini. They could have just released that to the various play stores and charged for it. Why make hardware? Most people already have a streamer box of choice. I have a shield and it's awesome. Why would I buy this android tv device from tivo? It makes no sense.


At least because of the STream 4K I am now aware of the Reelgood app. Which does a much better job of keeping track of my streaming shows than the TiVo app does.


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## tivolocity (Aug 12, 2002)

I knew it wasn't going to be like the Mini. I certainly hoped it would eventually be a replacement for my aging Minis. But, based on the comments I've been seeing in this forum, even if the Stream 4K is able to stream from my Bolt someday, I'm not sure I'm going to want it. There are a lot of negative comments. People have started returning it. Some of the positive comments sound more like people trying to talk themselves into liking it. There are some that genuinely like it. And, among those are ones who have completely disabled the TiVo features. :tearsofjoy:


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## jimpmc (Oct 31, 2001)

tivolocity said:


> I knew it wasn't going to be like the Mini. I certainly hoped it would eventually be a replacement for my aging Minis. But, based on the comments I've been seeing in this forum, even if the Stream 4K is able to stream from my Bolt someday, I'm not sure I'm going to want it. There are a lot of negative comments. People have started returning it. Some of the positive comments sound more like people trying to talk themselves into liking it. There are some that genuinely like it. And, among those are ones who have completely disabled the TiVo features. :tearsofjoy:


I think you have to separate Android TV general items (UI of home screen/main launcher, way apps behave in their Android TV implementation, etc.) vs. TiVo Stream 4k specific items (the Stream app itself, the remote, settings for HDR/DV, etc.). Many of the complaints seem to be about Android TV, but some of the TiVoS4K item's will likely be improved with bug fixes and new releases. Obviously the remote will not change form factors anytime soon. Again, this is a $50 dongle, not a $200 Shield.

For me, it is a nice replacement for a Nexus Player, but I knew what I was getting with Android TV.


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## manhole (Apr 15, 2005)

Dan203 said:


> This is what I thought we were getting with this device...
> 
> TiVo's Next-Gen Platform for managed Android TV™ devices
> 
> I thought they were just using that platform with Sling replacing the MSO Cloud DVR. Instead we essentially got an app that barely integrates with the device at all with the exception of the special button on the remote.


This is what I thought we were going to get with the Edge.


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## siratfus (Oct 3, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> This is what I thought we were getting with this device...
> 
> TiVo's Next-Gen Platform for managed Android TV™ devices
> 
> I thought they were just using that platform with Sling replacing the MSO Cloud DVR. Instead we essentially got an app that barely integrates with the device at all with the exception of the special button on the remote.


But whatever that video is, "Next-Gen Platform for managed Android TV," is that still down the pipeline? Or was this tivo stream app supposed to be it?


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

siratfus said:


> But whatever that video is, "Next-Gen Platform for managed Android TV," is that still down the pipeline? Or was this tivo stream app supposed to be it?


That's a current TiVo product that they offer to MSOs and is actually deployed in a few markets. It's been offered since December 2018.


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## siratfus (Oct 3, 2008)

Dan203 said:


> That's a current TiVo product that they offer to MSOs and is actually deployed in a few markets. It's been offered since December 2018.


From the looks of it, it integrates your DVR recordings? Yeah, why can't we have this? WTF. LOL! That would have been awesome.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

siratfus said:


> From the looks of it, it integrates your DVR recordings? Yeah, why can't we have this? WTF. LOL! That would have been awesome.


It doesn't have a built in DVR, but it uses the cloud DVR of the MSO and manages them basically like a regular TiVo does.


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