# TiVo Bolt MOCA network disconnects



## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

Hi, everyone. I have a first-gen TiVo Bolt 1000 up in one room of my house, and I use a CableCard with a Tuning adapter in that room. Downstairs in a media niche in the Family Room, I needed to get networking there for a TV, console, and a TiVo Mini. For a while I had a pair of ActionTec MOCA network adapters in the house, but they died a few months ago. I ended up replacing the pair of ActionTec devices with just a single Motorola MOCA Adapter (MM1000). I set up a MOCA network on the TiVo Bolt, and once I hooked up the MOCA adapter in the Family Room, I got a network connection. The last thing I want to mention about this entire setup is that I do not have a PoE filter installed anywhere in the house.

The problem that I get sometimes is using the TiVo Mini in that family room. I will get "Lost Connection - The connection with the Master Bedroom box has been lost" messages. If I'm watching recorded content from the Bolt and trying to rewind or fast-forward, there's a good chance I will get that message.

I'd like to not have this problem anymore, but I don't know where to start troubleshooting. Any suggestions?


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## kpeters59 (Jun 19, 2007)

We'll probably need a (even rough) drawing of your Coax layout.

Also, can you go in to Network Diagnostics on the Mini (all of them if there's more than one) and obtain all the MoCA Node Info and Power Levels that you can. Also do it at the TiVo.

Report back...

-KP


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

1) Find out for sure whether you have a "PoE" MoCA filter installed, and get one installed ASAP, if not. The "PoE" MoCA filter also has a performance function, not just security. (more info here)

2) How is your BOLT connected to the coax, via the Tuning Adapter's pass-through port? A MoCA-enabled DVR must not be connected via the TA pass-through port as this port severely attenuates signals at MoCA frequencies; instead, use a MoCA-compatible splitter to connect the TA and DVR. You may also need a MOCA filter installed on the TA's input port if the TA becomes unstable when MoCA is active. (more info here)

That's all the advice I can offer short of getting more info on how all the devices and locations interconnect, through what components, etc., but you'd certainly want to correct both of the above, regardless.


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

Here's a rough layout of connectivity. @kpeters59, I will reply back with diagnostics from the Bolt and the 1 TiVo Mini I have.

@krkaufman, I will check the point of entry at my house and some other spots within the house, but I'm fairly certain I don't have any PoE MOCA filters installed.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Good start. It looks like the TA and BOLT are properly connected, using a splitter.

As part of the search for a "PoE" MoCA filter, I think you'll want to bring more detail to the central "Coax splitters"/"Home coax" section of the diagram, including model numbers for components found. If issues persist even after getting the "PoE" MoCA filter installed, you may want to consider upgrading your splitters to known-compatible components, such as the Holland GHS-PRO-M series (e.g.).

Note that many providers will install a "PoE" MoCA filter for free, no charge for the component or install; YMMV.

Additional details on Ethernet connectivity, including brand/model numbers of the components, would also be helpful. Some network components/settings don't play nice with TiVo boxes, or vice versa (same net effect).


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

Since the TiVo Mini is connected via Ethernet, the network troubleshooting section just shows IP information. All of that info is fine, and the IP allocated to the Mini is within the range on my DHCP server.

MOCA details from the TiVo Bolt below:








Now on to the rat's nest that is the point of entry for my coax connection. A few things on that:

Surprise, there is a MOCA filter at the point of entry!!! I think I may have installed it myself a few years ago and just forgot about it. The point of entry starts like this: point of entry coax --> ground F-F connector --> MOCA PoE filter --> coax to first splitter (I'll get into that after). My Amazon order history shows I ordered this item back in 2016, and it looks just like that part, so I'll just assume that is the official TiVo PoE splitter.
There are so many splitters in place that it's going to take me a few days just to diagram it out. What I can tell you right now is that they are all Antronix splitters: 2-way (CMC2002HC-A), 3-way (CMC2003BHC-A), and even 4-way (CMC2004HC-A). The reason for so many splitters? I'm probably the third owner of this house, and different owners had their cable modem and cable boxes in different rooms.
In addition to all that, there's an SVI SV-A15PRS amplifier used to boost the signal going to the cable modem. From my initial attempts to trace the cabling, that connectivity only goes to the cable modem, so it's fairly isolated.

When I get some time this week, I will work on a great big diagram just for the point of entry. I know I only need 5 connections in my house for coax (cable modem connection plus 4 rooms), but I don't know if I want to or need to eliminate all the unused connections just to minimize the number of splitters being used. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

I know I don't have the entire layout drawn, but should additional PoE splitters be added elsewhere?


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

I at least know how many splitters there are, and in general how everything connects:








There are 12 coax connections inside my house, and at the moment I only know about the one in the garage used for my cable modem. I'll have to do some basic disconnecting/reconnecting to figure out what the 11 "??? in house" connections go to. As mentioned before, I only need 5 in my house, and I know one of them, so I only need to figure out 4 of them.

One of the questions was in regards to the networking, and I can briefly summarize this. When I moved into the house, I had an electrician run CAT6 in as many rooms as possible (without destroying everything), all home-run to my garage. In the garage, it's cable modem --> router --> 24-port switch --> CAT6 to most rooms. All the home entertainment devices in my bedroom have hard-wired Ethernet connections. Unfortunately, the electrician was unable to run CAT6 to the family room niche downstairs, hence the Motorola MM1000, which provides Ethernet connectivity to all devices in that area, including the TiVo Mini. Everything on the home-run CAT6 connections run without an issue, and I have many items connected there.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

_(note: edited and posted prior to seeing your latest post)_



Franco said:


> I know I don't have the entire layout drawn, but should additional PoE splitters be added elsewhere?


Mentioned above, you might need a MoCA filter on the TA if it becomes unstable when MoCA is active, and the same was true for some older modems (and even some newer DOCSIS 3.1 modems) - but this would be a protective/prophylactic use of MoCA filters, distinct from the "PoE" MoCA filter function (though the same component).

Having just the one signal point-of-entry (PoE), you only need the one "PoE" MoCA filter, though you may be able to optimize its location to improve performance.

A couple options, among many...

use a 2-way splitter as your initial split, connecting one output to the cable modem run, through the amp if needed, and the other output to the "PoE" MoCA filter installed on the input of a secondary splitter; this would marginally shrink the size of the MoCA network and keep MoCA away from the modem and, importantly, its amp;

replace all the central splitters and the "PoE" MoCA filter with a "designed for MoCA" amp; e.g.: MoCA Bypass Amplifier - RF Amplifier - Cable Amplifier | PCT Store


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Oh, your latest diagram seems to indicate that the amplifier is between the initial 3-way split and the splitter tree feeding the rest of the house, not the line to the cable modem. If so, the "PoE" MoCA filter's current location protects your MoCA network security, a good thing, but its performance benefit is negated.

One thing to try would be to move the "PoE" MoCA filter from its current location to the input of the 2-way splitter that is fed from the amplifier's output -- _*but* _only if neither the BOLT nor Mini are connected to the third output of the initial 3-way splitter. (Moving the "PoE" MoCA filter as suggested but with one of the TiVo boxes hung off that third input would put the MoCA filter between the TiVo boxes, curing your occasional disconnects by preventing any connection at all.)

edit: Like this (but again, only if neither the BOLT nor Mini are connected via the 3rd output of the initial 3-way splitter in the garage; a quick disconnect of that line would answer the question)...






​
A more general question... are you looking to enable MoCA for your whole coax plant or just to enable the network connection to the one "media niche" location unserved by your new Cat6 wiring, where the Mini will be located?

If just the minimal MoCA segment is required, given your new Cat6 wiring, you could use a standalone MoCA adapter (another MM1000) rather than the BOLT to establish the MoCA connection to which your current MM1000 would connect. You could possibly even keep the whole central coax setup untouched, since you could just identify the splitter to which the "media niche" MM1000 connects, isolate the splitter using your "PoE" MoCA filter, and connect this splitter's other output to an Ethernet-connected location where you could locate a second MM1000 -- enabling a 1 Gbps point-to-point MoCA connection between the two adapters, a vast (if not necessary) improvement over the 400 Mbps connection through the BOLT's standard MoCA 2.0 bridge.

edit2: Like the following...









Note that it may also be worthwhile to upgrade this one splitter to a known-good MoCA 2.0-rated model if going this route. (recommended splitters)​Also, the same could be done using the BOLT and the existing MM1000, even if you opted to connect both devices through either of the 4-way splitters. The isolation may not be as extreme, and the bandwidth ~just~ standard MoCA 2.0 (400 Mbps), but the severely shrunken MoCA network would eliminate the amp interference and likely overcome the sub-optimal splitters.









(Oh, right, noting that the coax wouldn't connect directly to the BOLT, since a 2-way splitter is needed to also connect the TA.)​


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

Hi @krkaufman, thank you so much for your replies. I'm pretty curious about that unknown connection off the 3-way splitter that's before the amp. I would not be surprised if that turned out to be the coax connection in my home office, as I recall the previous owner having their cable modem in that room before I moved in. If it's a connection that's not needed, then I'll move the PoE filter to the location you suggested right after the amp.

Secondly, I initially bought 2 x MM1000s when my older ActionTec devices died. Once I got a working connection with just one of them, realizing it had joined the MOCA network I created on the Bolt, I just returned the other one. If I don't have to buy that second MM1000, then I'd rather do without it. My only requirement was getting a solid, stable network connection to my Family Room media area. I have a Smart TV, Xbox, TiVo, and even a Chromecast that I opted to go hard-wire all using the network connections in there. The interesting things is that all the other devices in that media area work just fine with the network connection, and I've never noticed an issue with those devices. The bandwidth usage might get higher on the TiVo Mini, but I wonder if the Mini just can't handle all that activity.

Anyways, tomorrow I should be able to start figuring out those ??? connections, and maybe I'll move the PoE filter. We shall see.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Yeah, if you don't need/want the extra bandwidth* then the second MM1000 isn't necessary; however, you might still benefit from the additional MoCA network isolation options added as edits to my last post, once you've been able to identify the coax runs to the Mini and BOLT locations. 'gist: If you only need the MoCA connection for the Mini, the smaller the MoCA network the better.

* edit: One other benefit of using a second MM1000 as your MoCA bridge, rather than the BOLT, is that connectivity at the "media niche" location would no longer be affected by TiVo BOLT reboots. The value of this difference varies with the frequency of the reboots, and tolerance.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

A inexpensive coax tracer would be a handy tool for your diagnostics, such as found here. You connect the colored toner plugs to up to four outlets at a time, then connect the tester to each coax drop from the output of each splitter- that should give you the chance to identify and label all of your cables.

You may want to add a package of F81 Barrel Connectors to your testing kit, along with a bag of 75-ohm terminators for any open, but unused ports.

Finally, a 20 inch pound, 7/16" torque wrench will assure that the F-connectors on your coax cables stay tight on all splitter ports, poe filters, and barrel connectors- although avoid using this for connections at the electronics box (tivo box, tv, etc).


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

After just checking that 1 pre-amp connection, and now that I've identified it, I've made some changes:

















That pre-amp connection turned out to be the guest bedroom. That room has a cable box in there, and since it works just fine before the amp, it can stay there. I then moved the PoE filter to the spot right after the amp, before the first 2-way splitter. In addition, the MM1000 came with it's own PoE filter, so I installed that just before the Tuning Adapter in the bedroom where the TiVo Bolt resides.

So with these changes in place, I've done a couple of quick tests on the TiVo Mini with rewinding and ff'ing recorded content from the Bolt at the fastest speeds, and while it does seem less flaky, it did give me a disconnect once.

One of the comments from @krkaufman that stood out the most to me was the fact that I am relying on the Bolt for the network, and if (when) that Bolt reboots or has other problems, I lose that network connection in my Family Room. So I ended up buying a second MM1000 (again!), and will be setting it up in a different room in my house. I will also be trying to isolate those 2 rooms that will have the MOCA adapters by locating them on all the coax connections, put them on their own splitter, and move the PoE filter to just that splitter.


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Franco said:


> After just checking that 1 pre-amp connection, and now that I've identified it, I've made some changes:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When you have time, it might be worth your while to try examine your coax network with an eye to reducing the size and number of splitters if possible, only use one with the minimum number of ports necessary or swapping them out entirely for one of the barrel connectors suggested by tapokata if possible. If none of that is an option then the Holland brand MoCA rated splitters recommended by krkaufman would be another way to possible reduce loss and enhance the MoCA signals.
PS. Remember if you decide to use another MM1000 to create your MoCA network, to switch the Bolt to a client, i.e., remove the Ethernet cable.


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

fcfc2 said:


> When you have time, it might be worth your while to try examine your coax network with an eye to reducing the size and number of splitters if possible, only use one with the minimum number of ports necessary or swapping them out entirely for one of the barrel connectors suggested by tapokata if possible. If none of that is an option then the Holland brand MoCA rated splitters recommended by krkaufman would be another way to possible reduce loss and enhance the MoCA signals.
> PS. Remember if you decide to use another MM1000 to create your MoCA network, to switch the Bolt to a client, i.e., remove the Ethernet cable.


Hi @fcfc2. I do plan at some point to untangle this mess of cables, and minimize the splitter count. I may have to do that to stabilize the MOCA connection regardless. Lastly, once I have the 2 MM1000s paired up, my plan is to change the Bolt from MOCA + Ethernet to only Ethernet. That way I'll only have one MOCA network in use at my home. Also, I can't remove the Ethernet cable, as the Bolt needs that for network connectivity (and to communicate with the Mini).


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## fcfc2 (Feb 19, 2015)

Franco said:


> Hi @fcfc2. I do plan at some point to untangle this mess of cables, and minimize the splitter count. I may have to do that to stabilize the MOCA connection regardless. Lastly, once I have the 2 MM1000s paired up, my plan is to change the Bolt from MOCA + Ethernet to only Ethernet. That way I'll only have one MOCA network in use at my home. Also, I can't remove the Ethernet cable, as the Bolt needs that for network connectivity (and to communicate with the Mini).


Ok, I wasn't clear where exactly your MoCA adapters would be placed, although you made a gallant effort to diagram your setup, I was still a bit confused.


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## fyodor (Sep 19, 2006)

What temperature is your bolt running at (ODT under system information)? Is is in a closed space or open? I had ongoing connection problems causes by overheating.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Franco said:


> I will also be trying to isolate those 2 rooms that will have the MOCA adapters by locating them on all the coax connections, put them on their own splitter, and move the PoE filter to just that splitter.





fcfc2 said:


> Ok, I wasn't clear where exactly your MoCA adapters would be placed


Like 2nd attachment in post #9 ("uber-isolated TURBO mode").

Ideally that splitter would be upgraded to a GHS-2PRO-M, but the adapters may be able to hit 1 Gbps even with the existing splitter. Alternatively, if neither location with a MM1000 required the provider's cable signal (not the case for the BOLT), the "PoE" MoCA filter and splitter could be replaced with a 3 GHz barrel connector, joining the two coax runs into a direct connection between adapters.

If the disconnects continue in either of these isolated setups, you might look at the Ethernet components, starting with the switch at the Mini location. (Another tweak to the above would be to use a 2-way splitter at the Mini location to allow both the Mini and MM1000 to connect as MoCA clients, though dropping the MM1000 pipe down to 800 Mbps max.)

Add'l possibilities to run down, including @fyodor's above suggestion:

BOLT overheating?
IGMP Snooping, IGMP Proxy (see here for more info)
TiVo s/w bug (Hydra or Mira; e.g.)


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

I did receive the second Motorola MOCA adapter (MM1000). I disabled MOCA on the Bolt, added the second MM1000, then power cycled the MM1000 in the family room. The 2 MOCA adapters established a connection, and things look good so far from a connectivity standpoint. During some quick tests with the TiVo Mini, everything played well, including lots of fast-forwarding/rewinding on content from the Bolt. I think this may have given me the best connection I could hope to get from a MOCA network.

To answer some the questions about the Bolt's temperature, it's currently at 66, which I believe is in the OK range. I have never had reboot problems from my Bolt.


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## krkaufman (Nov 25, 2003)

Franco said:


> I think this may have given me the best connection I could hope to get from a MOCA network.


Did you opt for the splitter+filter or barrel connector coax link between locations? Was the splitter upgraded?

Barrel-connected should produce the best results, but the splitter+filter config may already be at optimum performance. If looking for an objective measure of the connection you can check the MM1000's MoCA stats ... and run iPerf between a couple PCs connected on either side of the MoCA segment.


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## Franco (Feb 24, 2002)

Nothing has been upgraded or changed from the last diagrams I posted of the home coax network and home entertainment connectivity, except for the link between the Family Room and the Office MOCA adapters now providing the network for the Family Room. Unless I run into problems with this configuration, I will most likely not do any more changes to the coax connections in the house. Some real-world usage over the next week or two will ultimately tell me if this current configuration is good enough.


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## tapokata (Apr 26, 2017)

Cribbed from Motorola's support pages, but how to access the MM1000 diagnostics menu, which will give you the MoCA node stats:



> Windows users should follow these steps:
> Hold down the Windows key [Windows key icon] and then press the keyboard letter R to bring up the Windows Run dialog box.
> Type ncpa.cpl in the Windows run dialog box and press OK.
> The Network Connections window will open. Windows 10 or 8 users should right click on the adapter labeled Ethernet and select Properties. For Windows 7 users the adapter may be labeled Local Area Connection. Click on that and select Properties.
> ...


And when using iperf3 to test throughput of the connection, make sure you load the process and file size for the most accurate result in the command line, such as:

iperf3 -c 192.168.x.xx -O5 -w1M -P10 -n1G

The "-O" modifier omits the first five results (allows the transfer to ramp up without affecting the average throughput reported). "-w1M" increases the size of the buffer window to 1Mb, "-P10" creates 10 threads for the process, and "-n1G" set the total file size to be sent equivalent to 1 Gigabyte. In my experience, running a single thread (no -P modifier) will yield a lower result, or by using a small file size (-n modifier).


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