# tivo and a upnp server



## rwilkins108 (Jan 18, 2005)

Hi, I just bought the linksys wrt350n router and it has a storage link (can connect a usb drive to the router and shared via the network). 

the router supports connecting with a windows share, ftp and as a upnp media server. I'd love to be able to connect my 2 tivo series 2's to use the media server to serve up mp3s. I'm currently using Galleon for this now from my pc with the mp3s on my local drive. 

I imagine the only way to do this is to connect my windows pc to that network share and just continue to use galleon... I just hoping to 'avoid the middleman', just have the tivo (which has a wired connection to the network) connect directly to where the mp3s are instead of having to go through galleon (which is on my laptop via wireless network)...

Any thoughts?

thanks,
Ron


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

If you can, hack your ersatz NAT to run galleon, or get a real NAS or a low-power PC.


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## BrianAZ (Aug 13, 2007)

Has there ever been talk about Tivo supporting UPNP AV streaming like the DSM-520, xbox, etc do? Perhaps using the HME development tools (I am totally ignorant here and have no idea how capable the HME apps are)?.

I know that Tivo's method of xfering files is copying, then playing... or at least copying enough so you have a buffer to watch while the rest copies. Unfortunately this is often too slow to watch when you want (which is the whole idea of a Tivo right?) and I find myself avoiding it altogether.

I'd love to ditch the DSM-520 completely...


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## maverick06 (Sep 12, 2007)

any update here? I am in the same boat. Would love to use my NAT200 (linksys) to stream pics and music to my tivo series 2...


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

TiVo still needs a server of their sort. They have not changed to uPNP.


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## dankruse (Apr 27, 2005)

Just to revive this thread. 

How about some smart Java programmer out there create an HME to UPNP translator. I don't have time to do it myself, but it does seem like it should be possible to create an HME application that can talk to a UPNP media server. I'm sure a bunch of people would be interested in seeing this happen - be nice to be able to use TVersity or Nero Media Home, etc.. as the server and the Tivo as the renderer.

Anyone want to take up the challenge?


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

dankruse said:


> Just to revive this thread.
> 
> How about some smart Java programmer out there create an HME to UPNP translator. I don't have time to do it myself, but it does seem like it should be possible to create an HME application that can talk to a UPNP media server. I'm sure a bunch of people would be interested in seeing this happen - be nice to be able to use TVersity or Nero Media Home, etc.. as the server and the Tivo as the renderer.


What you are asking doesn't quite make sense. The reason is due to a basic misunderstanding of what HME is. Think of HME as a dumb unscriptable web browser in the TiVo. The HME application is the web page, running out on the server. So yes, an HME application can be written to do this. Galleon HAPPENS TO BE ONE. It will need to run on the serving computer.

If you want it done in the TiVo DVR, then TiVo needs to write a new UPNP client to run in the TiVo. Such a beast makes absolutely no sense in a series 2 TiVo which probably doesn't have the wherewithal to run it anyway. The HD, HD XL, S3 and future machines might have the guts to do it, so by all means suggest to TiVo that they add the capability. There is already a thread for this very idea in the suggestion avenue forum to which you can add your voice.


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## dankruse (Apr 27, 2005)

I understand this, and I wasn't thinking of making the Tivo into a UPNP client itself, but rather have the HME app act as a UPNP media renderer and a middleman between the Tivo and the UPNP media server. The performance would probably be very weak at best, but I still think it could be done. 

I've had many Tivos and also networked media players and both have advantages and disadvantages. It would be nice if we find a way to get the best of both. There are already ways to get most of the functionality, but it requires using many different tools - tivostream can now do streaming of video, but doesn't recode the video from other formats, pytivo can recode video, but doesn't do streaming, Tivo Desktop does photos, music, etc.

Think it would be great if we could take advantage of many of the existing UPNP media servers that are available. Just something to get people thinking.


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## classicsat (Feb 18, 2004)

Perhaps you are not getting it.
The HME "app" does not run on the TiVo, it runs on the server which it resides. 

Since you are going to run an HME App someplace, why not have it directly access your content on that device.

If you are talking of your PC, why not run several server apps. Of course, there are certain limitations, such as you cannot stream and convert video at the same time; conversion will take time.


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## dankruse (Apr 27, 2005)

Not sure what part of my explanation makes you think that I think the HME app runs on the Tivo.

Just as a web service can act as a proxy for another web service, I was thinking that this HME app could act as a proxy for the media server. Perhaps there are some serious limitations to an HME app that I am misunderstanding, but I don't see why the HME app couldn't forward the Up/Down/FF/Play, etc.. commands it receives on to the UPNP server.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

dankruse said:


> tivostream can now do streaming of video, but doesn't recode the video from other formats, pytivo can recode video, but doesn't do streaming


You might want to look at HME/VLC (see my sig), for something that both reencodes and streams.

Re: UPnP, I'm looking into it. I'm not sure why these guys are giving you a hard time about it. But you are wrong about one thing: It doesn't have to be in Java.


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## dankruse (Apr 27, 2005)

Well, this is coming for a 10+ year Java programmer - certified in 1998 

Thanks for your understanding.

I have started playing with your HME/VLC program and just left you some comments on that thread. Wish I had the time to play around with coding some of this stuff myself.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

I guess the reason I am being hard on you is because it sounded from your post that you thought that HME ran on the TiVo and you wanted to do a UPNP client there.

Yes, you could do an HME running on your NAS that acts as a front end to your UPNP server. That still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why have it front end the UPNP server when it can serve up the content directly. Galleon is an HME app, it is equivalent to your UPNP server. If both are on the NAS then one can serve to TiVo while the other serves to other devices. If you build an HME to act as a front end then both the HME and the UPNP server must run together to serve something to the TiVo. Why do that? It just seems wasteful to me.

Perhaps what you might really want is an HME that looks like your UPNP user interface on the TiVo. It wouldn't really use your UPNP server, it would serve directly, but at least you would have a common user interface. You could do that either as an add-in to Galleon or as a standalone HME running on wmcbrine's python HME server stack. Of course such a product would probably not please the UPNP maker, since they would probably not be fond of people cloning their UI for other products.

Does your NAS/NAT with USB drive, have the computer horsepower to run all this software at once? Does it have a fast enough processor and enough RAM to convert video from one format to another while serving or streaming? Probably not, in which case you are likely going to need to use either a PC or a WHS box. 

If transcoding is something you can skip by making sure that all the material is in the right format to begin with, then yes, a server can run on your device. Both Galleon and pyTivo have been made to run on hacked buffalo Linkstation HGs. They can't transcode (in anything under a week), but otherwise I hear they work fine. I tried getting them running on an old original linkstation, but its RAM was too small and performance was ugly, but newer units are quite capable with 2 to 4 times the RAM and processors that are twice as fast as mine.


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## dankruse (Apr 27, 2005)

The main reason is that UPnP Media Servers are numerous, well supported, and updated regularly. I have been a user of Galleon since the JavaHMO days and I believe it hasn't been updated in at least a year.

UPnP Media Servers have support for all types of media ( music, photos, video, streaming radio, etc.. ) and most have some type of built-in transcoding - TVersity even has profiles to define which types require transcoding based on the client. I'd really like to get everything in ONE application rather than having numerous processes running on my server - right now I have Tivo Desktop, pyTivo, Galleon, and tivostream running and all of them have limitations. To run my network media player, I get everything I need with a single media server application.

I don't care (much) about what the UI looks like, I care about having the latest support for ever changing encoding standards - ( for instance, AVCHD is a hot topic for me now that I just bought a HD camcorder ), and I want everything in a single server application. 

To me, the best option would be for Tivo to opensource their desktop software and let the developer community add streaming and improved transcoding to it, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Tivo Desktop updates are also few and far between.


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## wmcbrine (Aug 2, 2003)

CuriousMark said:


> I guess the reason I am being hard on you is because it sounded from your post that you thought that HME ran on the TiVo and you wanted to do a UPNP client there.


I didn't get that from his post. I think you might be confusing it with the OP's, who did want that.



> _Why have it front end the UPNP server when it can serve up the content directly._


There seem to be some useful things that UPnP servers do that would be worth not reimplementing. For example, there's a UPnP server that handles Hulu.com.


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## Allanon (Nov 2, 2005)

> Why have it front end the UPNP server when it can serve up the content directly


With a UPNP Server you might be able to run PlayOn using the Tivo.


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## CuriousMark (Jan 13, 2005)

wmcbrine said:


> I didn't get that from his post. I think you might be confusing it with the OP's, who did want that..


sure enough. I wasn't paying close enough attention. I apologize.


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## windracer (Jan 3, 2003)

dankruse said:


> I have been a user of Galleon since the JavaHMO days and I believe it hasn't been updated in at least a year.


2.5.3 was just released last week. 

But yeah, no major updating work going on recently.


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## dankruse (Apr 27, 2005)

You know, I looked at this site just before I posted that and it still had 2.5.2.

Figures I'd still get it wrong ;-)


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## ZeoTiVo (Jan 2, 2004)

Allanon said:


> With a UPNP Server you might be able to run PlayOn using the Tivo.


and playon will get you netflix, along with Hulu and othr stuff, streaming on your TiVo/TV. That would be worth money to various people and still be within license and DRM guidelines of Netflix and other sites


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## mulscully (May 31, 2003)

Has there been any work/thought lately on an HME app to interface between a uPNP server and the Tivo.. 

Example, can support for a uPNP source be added to pyTivo to if I am running playon on a PC, I can point pyTivo to that source?


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