# HR21: Upgrade Internal HD



## gq91355 (Apr 21, 2003)

I'm aware of the option to connect an external HD to the HR21. Can anyone point me to a link with instructions or a thread about upgrading the _internal _HD on the HR21?

Thanks!


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

DBSTalk will be your best resource for this kind of question. FYI that if you crack it open and replace the internal drive you are breaking the terms of your lease. Just letting you know.


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

gq91355 said:


> I'm aware of the option to connect an external HD to the HR21. Can anyone point me to a link with instructions or a thread about upgrading the _internal _HD on the HR21?
> 
> Thanks!


Why bother, get a 1TB Esata, plug it in RBR and you are done, why run a chance of violating your lease terms


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The details vary depending on which manufacturer of HR21 you have, the 100, 200 and 700 are somewhat different internally. However, all this really changes is how you disassemble the box to replace the hard disk.

The actual act of replacing is simple. Disconnect old, connect new, put box back together and power on. 

As mentioned, this technically violates your lease agreement. There are some valid reasons for doing it if you want to go that way, if you understand the risks.


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## gq91355 (Apr 21, 2003)

sjberra said:


> Why bother, get a 1TB Esata, plug it in RBR and you are done, why run a chance of violating your lease terms


I likely will end up going that route. Any recommendations on the best brand 1 TB external HD to use?



stevel said:


> The actual act of replacing is simple. Disconnect old, connect new, put box back together and power on.


Literally, remove the existing HD, replace it with a new HD out of the box, and that's it? No formatting, software, or anything?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

No formatting, no software. Just stick a blank disk (or previously formatted, doesn't matter) in there. When the box powers up, it will reformat the disk as needed. Some of your preferences will be retained, as they're not stored on the disk, but any programs or series links will not.

You want a SATA II disk. I'd recommend looking for one with a reputation for running cool and quiet and not just going for the cheapest. You don't need the "highest performing" drive in this application.

FWIW, I have done this with both my HR2x boxes.


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## gq91355 (Apr 21, 2003)

stevel said:


> You want a SATA II disk. I'd recommend looking for one with a reputation for running cool and quiet and not just going for the cheapest. You don't need the "highest performing" drive in this application.
> 
> FWIW, I have done this with both my HR2x boxes.


Thanks for the info, Steve. I would be very interested in the specific make/model HD you got. I plan on upgrading the HR21-100.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I used "Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB" in each. There may be newer models. Samsung Spinpoint and the Seagate AV line are also good choices.


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## Avenger (Mar 26, 2002)

A poster at dbstalk has kindly written a whole step-by-step for swapping the internal drive while preserving season passes / recordings / etc. It worked perfectly for me. Here's the link:

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=100894&page=6

You could use a variant of it to transfer recordings and such from the internal drive to an added external drive as well.

As for the lease, screw 'em. I kept the original drive on the shelf and, if I need to, I could swap it back in within 20 minutes to send the unit back to them. They'd never know the difference.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

gq91355 said:


> I likely will end up going that route. Any recommendations on the best brand 1 TB external HD to use?


All three of my units are using WD 1TB drives in Antec MX-1 enclosures. This seems to be the most widely used and problem free combination. Runs super cool and you can't even hear it.

Also, if using an external drive, I recommend opening the HR2x case and just unplugging the internal drive. Since it's not used when an external drive is connected, it will run cooler. Just keep in mind that the temperature reading comes from the drive, so if you unplug it, the temp will always read 32F (0C).

As for the whole 'it will violate your lease agreement' scare tactic, don't forget Tivo had the same 'opening will void your warranty' thing and it didn't stop anyone. IMO, it's a non-issue.


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## gq91355 (Apr 21, 2003)

Mark Lopez said:


> All three of my units are using WD 1TB drives in Antec MX-1 enclosures. This seems to be the most widely used and problem free combination. Runs super cool and you can't even hear it.


Looks like Costco.com has the Western Digital 1 TB My Book, with eSATA, for $229. Has anyone tried this model?


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

gq91355 said:


> Looks like Costco.com has the Western Digital 1 TB My Book, with eSATA, for $229. Has anyone tried this model?


I think there is an issue with the My Book (or some specific model) with the HR21 series (but works ok with HR20). Your best bet is to check over at dbstalk to see which unit has the issues.

<edit> It looks like it's the FAP unit that has issues. But this thread will probably answer ay questions you may have

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?p=1288747


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## EricG (Jan 31, 2002)

Just for my own info, how much HD content can you get on a TeraByte?


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## gr00vie (Mar 17, 2005)

I just did this from newegg and it cost me about 286.00 total.

Not sure how many hours I have though.

Western Digital Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB 5400 to 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM 

and

Antec MX-1 USB2.0 & eSATA External Enclosure - Retail


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

EricG said:


> Just for my own info, how much HD content can you get on a TeraByte?


Generally speaking, each one hour of mpeg4 HD appears to uses about .8% of the available space. So I would say about 125hrs of HD. YMMV.


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## dia_cero2002 (Feb 27, 2004)

stevel said:


> I used "Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB" in each. There may be newer models. Samsung Spinpoint and the Seagate AV line are also good choices.


I'm a fan of the Samsung Spinpoint. They're heavier and feel like they're more solidly made. They're also very quiet.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Anyone know if the WD Green Power 1TB drive will work as an INTERNAL replacement on the HR21?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136151

I see someone mentioned that they used it in an Antec case, but I'd prefer to put it internal to save space and power.

I've upgraded several TiVos in the past - and this looks like it should be a drop-in replacement so really easy.

Let me know, thanks!


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Any SATA drive will work internally. Keep in mind that you are not supposed to open the box - you (probably) don't own it.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

stevel said:


> Any SATA drive will work internally. Keep in mind that you are not supposed to open the box - you (probably) don't own it.


Great, thanks!

I probably don't own my current one - but since they replaced an owned HR10-250 with this, I'm going to do it anyway and hope for the best... 

Thanks again!


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

BTW - I've seen some people post about needing to put a jumper on some drives... is that only for external?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Many SATA drives ship with a jumper that limits them to SATA I (150mbps) speeds. If yours has such a jumper you should remove it, though I think the practical difference ina DVR will be nil. That's the only jumper I've ever seen used on a SATA drive.


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## RandCfilm (Dec 20, 2005)

Fezmid said:


> Anyone know if the WD Green Power 1TB drive will work as an INTERNAL replacement on the HR21?
> Let me know, thanks!


I don't know about the WD drive but I just upgraded two with Seagate (5 year warranty) 1 TB drives with no problems. Also saved my current recordings in the process.


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## Eben (Jul 19, 2001)

Mark Lopez said:


> Also, if using an external drive, I recommend opening the HR2x case and just unplugging the internal drive. Since it's not used when an external drive is connected, it will run cooler. Just keep in mind that the temperature reading comes from the drive, so if you unplug it, the temp will always read 32F (0C).


Can you point me to a picture of the inside of an HR21 that shows what I'd unplug?
Thanks.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

You'd unplug the power and data connections to the drive - standard cables. The layout inside varies by box manufacturer.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

Eben said:


> Can you point me to a picture of the inside of an HR21 that shows what I'd unplug?
> Thanks.


does this help?

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=83811


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## Eben (Jul 19, 2001)

newsposter said:


> does this help?
> 
> http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=83811


Yep, thanks.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

stevel said:


> Many SATA drives ship with a jumper that limits them to SATA I (150mbps) speeds. If yours has such a jumper you should remove it, though I think the practical difference ina DVR will be nil. That's the only jumper I've ever seen used on a SATA drive.


FWIW, there was some talk that there was less compatibility problems if you put the 150mbps jumper ON. I have them jumpered that way on all of my units and have no problems. Whether it actually makes a compatability difference or not I don't know. However it has no affect on performance.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I agree - the DVR cannot take advantage of SATA II speeds, so leaving the jumper on should be fine.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Well, I went to try replacing the internal drive today and noticed that the box is screwed together with a special looking screw. It's a star, but there's a little bump in the middle. Obviously trying to make it as tough as possible to open... Anyone know where to get a screwdriver like that? Ideally I'd buy from Amazon if they offered Prime shipping, but I don't know what to search for.

In addition -- if I connect an external drive and later put it internal -- will that be a seamless transition? I'm assuming the system won't know since it's only using a single bus, but I want to make sure. 

EDIT: After searching around, I believe I'm looking for a "security torx" set. I think this will work, right?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/handle-buy-box/ref=dp_start-bbf_1_glance


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

IIRC it's a #10 star driver. I think this would do the trick.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

That's a "Security Torx" bit, TS-10. Here is one set sold by Amazon. A standard Torx bit will not work. You may want to check your local Home Depot, Lowes or even RadioShack to see if they sell these. Usually they come in sets. I have a nice set from Wiha (as part of a "security bits" set).

I don't know what happens if you take a drive that had been mounted externally and then mount it internally. I'd guess that it would not notice the difference, but I don't recall a discussion of this before.


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## RandCfilm (Dec 20, 2005)

Fezmid said:


> Well, I went to try replacing the internal drive today and noticed that the box is screwed together with a special looking screw. It's a star, but there's a little bump in the middle. Obviously trying to make it as tough as possible to open... Anyone know where to get a screwdriver like that? Ideally I'd buy from Amazon if they offered Prime shipping, but I don't know what to search for.
> 
> In addition -- if I connect an external drive and later put it internal -- will that be a seamless transition? I'm assuming the system won't know since it's only using a single bus, but I want to make sure.


Security torx is the name you are looking for and the size is 10 or T10. If you have a bit holder screw driver you might think about getting a complete set of security bits, you never know when you will be working on something unusual.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Just ordered one from Amazon (didn't feel like searching for it at Home Depot). It'll be here Thursday.

In the meantime, I put my 1TB drive into the MX-1 enclosure, plugged it into the receiver and powered it up -- worked without a hitch.

I'll let everyone know if it works to just put it internally once I get the stupid special screwdriver bit.


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## mrpope (Jan 13, 2006)

to help you search, it's called a torx bit. probably a #10 like Tony mentioned. you can get one at just about any hardware store.


sorry, replied to the first page.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

Fezmid said:


> Well, I went to try replacing the internal drive today and noticed that the box is screwed together with a special looking screw. It's a star, but there's a little bump in the middle. Obviously trying to make it as tough as possible to open... Anyone know where to get a screwdriver like that? Ideally I'd buy from Amazon if they offered Prime shipping, but I don't know what to search for.
> 
> In addition -- if I connect an external drive and later put it internal -- will that be a seamless transition? I'm assuming the system won't know since it's only using a single bus, but I want to make sure.
> 
> ...


It would be interesting to hear how you make out taking it from external to internal. I cant imagine that the system would know anybetter, although I wonder if the system somehow automatically reformats if it detects a "new" drive being plugged in. I think I would test it before I recorded too much. It would suck to record 20 or 30 hours and swap it and have the sucker reformat.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

jimb726 said:


> It would be interesting to hear how you make out taking it from external to internal. I cant imagine that the system would know anybetter, although I wonder if the system somehow automatically reformats if it detects a "new" drive being plugged in. I think I would test it before I recorded too much. It would suck to record 20 or 30 hours and swap it and have the sucker reformat.


Yeah, there's not much on this week - and I should be able to go from external to internal on Thursday so there won't be anything important recorded on the DVR. I'll keep people posted.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

Fezmid said:


> Yeah, there's not much on this week - and I should be able to go from external to internal on Thursday so there won't be anything important recorded on the DVR. I'll keep people posted.


Please keep us posted as I would like to know the answer. I currently run an external but you never know how decor changes in the house, and the need may arise someday to not have the external enclosure sitting out.


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## BlankMan (Mar 30, 2002)

Wow. I didn't know it was this easy to up the hours. 

Does this work on an HR20 too?


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Yes. Depending on the model, it may be trickier to swap out the drives (for my HR20-100 I had to get a long-shank Torx driver), but the basics are identical.


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## BlankMan (Mar 30, 2002)

stevel said:


> Yes. Depending on the model, it may be trickier to swap out the drives (for my HR20-100 I had to get a long-shank Torx driver), but the basics are identical.


Thanks. I do believe I have a 100. But luckily I have a set of 6" SnapOn Torx drivers and an additional #10 same length. I do hope that's long enough...


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Ok, I got the security torx screwdriver, am inside the box -- but can't figure out how to get the stupid drive out! It's in some black plastic tray that's screwed to the mainboard as well as the front of the frame. I removed all of those screwed, but now there's some capacitors preventing me from sliding the tray out. Is there something I'm missing? Is there a detailed guide somewhere?

EDIT: based on a few posts, looks like I"ll have to tilt it up and try getting it over the capacitor.......


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## RandCfilm (Dec 20, 2005)

Fezmid said:


> EDIT: based on a few posts, looks like I"ll have to tilt it up and try getting it over the capacitor.......


Same thing when installing, just pay attention and be patient it will all come together.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

Surgery is done and was a complete success!

Good news -- taking an external drive and moving it internal does *NOT* affect the recorded shows (which is what I expected would be the case).

I'm now running with a 1TB Green Power drive. AND I now own some security torx bits. Pretty cool


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## jmathey (Oct 31, 2002)

Does the size of the buffer matter on the drives? I have an HR21-100 that works flawlessly with the original 320 WD drive. I put an external drive eSATA in a Thermaltake MAX 4 case and the HR21 now freezes intermitently? 

The drive is a MAXTOR 1 TB with a 32 mb buffer. 

If someone here convinces me that moving it to internal may solve the issue, I'll do it. I've been modifying the TIVO's ( standalone and dvr's) for many years and I'm not worried about opening the case, and I don't really care about voiding the lease agreement. I'll buy them a new dvr if it really screws up. 

I'm open to purchasing a new drive if someone passes me a suggestion. I've used WD's with no issue, just went with the maxtor for price. 


thanks in advance
John


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## sjberra (May 16, 2005)

jmathey said:


> Does the size of the buffer matter on the drives? I have an HR21-100 that works flawlessly with the original 320 WD drive. I put an external drive eSATA in a Thermaltake MAX 4 case and the HR21 now freezes intermitently?
> 
> The drive is a MAXTOR 1 TB with a 32 mb buffer.
> 
> ...


Might be enclosure. Take a look over at http://www.dbstalk.com/ there is a huge discussion there on decent enclosures and estata cables


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

jmathey said:


> Does the size of the buffer matter on the drives? I have an HR21-100 that works flawlessly with the original 320 WD drive. I put an external drive eSATA in a Thermaltake MAX 4 case and the HR21 now freezes intermitently?
> 
> The drive is a MAXTOR 1 TB with a 32 mb buffer.
> 
> ...


I'd go internal if I were you. Less cables, less chances of issues. From what I've read, internal never has any problems whereas external potentially has enclosure/cable issues.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Fezmid said:


> ...Good news -- taking an external drive and moving it internal does *NOT* affect the recorded shows (which is what I expected would be the case.)...


Would you say that this implies that if you have an external 1 TB drive, and your internal drive goes belly up, that you could move the x drive to become internal and then later put a second drive into the old 1TB enclosure? Or could you simply replace the internal with a bare drive? I'm not sure I understand where the system software resides and how simple or difficult it might be to recover from a bad drive.

But if you could do either of these things, I think its preferable to having the entire box replaced.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

The system software resides in flash memory on the motherboard. You can, it would seem, replace the internal drive with one that had been connected externally, but then there would be no point to adding yet another external drive as the box will ignore the internal drive if an external one is connected.


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## jmathey (Oct 31, 2002)

Fezmid said:


> Surgery is done and was a complete success!
> 
> Good news -- taking an external drive and moving it internal does *NOT* affect the recorded shows (which is what I expected would be the case).
> 
> I'm now running with a 1TB Green Power drive. AND I now own some security torx bits. Pretty cool


Anyone know if there are ny issues with the GP WD drives? I'm going to crack my case and put one in, they were on sale at Frys for $154, but would like to know if anyone is experiencing any issues with it before I crack it.

Don't want to have to redo it


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## RandCfilm (Dec 20, 2005)

stevel said:


> You can, it would seem, replace the internal drive with one that had been connected externally.


I think I read this on another forum. Someone did hook up their drive to be external while ordering tools to open the case. Then installed the external drive to be the internal drive and all recording were still there. So moving the drives external to internal does not lose recordings.


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## Fezmid (Dec 6, 2001)

RandCfilm said:


> I think I read this on another forum. Someone did hook up their drive to be external while ordering tools to open the case. Then installed the external drive to be the internal drive and all recording were still there. So moving the drives external to internal does not lose recordings.


You actually read it in this thread... Post #43 to be exact. 

I have a WD GP 1TB drive (you can get it a lot cheaper than $159... I got it for $129 at Frys or NewEgg, can't recall) and haven't had any issues with it.

I had it external for a few days, then moved it internal and all of my recordings and season passes were still there. Worked like a champ.

I just put a 750G GP drive in my other HR21.


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## RandCfilm (Dec 20, 2005)

Fezmid said:


> You actually read it in this thread... Post #43 to be exact.


How lazy can I get?  At least it wasn't 2 posts above mine, not that 7 posts was to far to review.


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## jmathey (Oct 31, 2002)

Another successful internal upgrade.

Piece of cake compared to the tivo days, infinitely easier than before we had the MFS Tools. 

Some gotchas:

Mine is an HR21-100

1: Double check the direction of the fan when you pull it out of the bracket. I'm still not 100&#37; sure I put it back in correctly. The air flow should be blowing away from the drive. I felt the air coming from that direction so I think I'm ok. Usually there's a little arrow indicating the direction of the air flow, but couldn't find one on that. In hindsight, might be safer and easier to pull the fan power connector from the motherboard to be sure you don't reverse the fan flow. Lesson learned. 

2: There is a sponge that comes out. In my case, it was adhered to the top of the case, I'm assuming it fits over the top of the drive. To be honest, I'm not sure what it's for. Sound dampening I'm assuming. I put it back by just placing it on top of the drive and fitting the cover back over the top of it. 

3: Some needle nose pliers or tweezers come in handy when trying to pull the screws from the holes on the motherboard, once you loosen them. I didn't have a magnetic TP torx screwdriver so double teaming with some needlenose pliers helped out alot.

4: Be very careful of the capacitors around the left side ( power supply side) of the drive. They are easy to knock out when maneruvering the bracket around, but if you keep an eye from underneath, you should be able to clear it by tilting and sliding it under the front edge. 

All in all, pretty straight forward.... cover off to cover on time was less than 30 minutes. 

As for voiding the warranty, I still don't understand why DTV doesn't just make these with a plug and play slot where we can just put a new drive in easier. The software is now on THEIR flash memory so what' s the difference. We're not hacking the service, just adding more drive space.

Ok.. end the ranting.. .!!! 


Enjoy the new space..just in time for college football season 

John


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

stevel said:


> ...there would be no point to adding yet another external drive as the box will ignore the internal drive if an external one is connected.


True, but I hardly agree there would be no point. I have an internal with about 22% available and an external 1 TB with about 67% available. While it is not very practical from a content management perspective, I still end up switching about once a week, which is no more difficult other than a painless 6-minute waiting game. I still find having both drives available (while granted, never at the same exact time) preferable to abandoning one or the other.

But if DTV could (Ahem!) find a way to incorporate the NPL into that flash memory, that would be a huge improvement.


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Ok, I can see that. It makes a good archive strategy, though it does complicate things if you have active recordings while using an "archive" disk.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

all this talk of internals and externals got me thinking

I used to think it was stupid the directv series wont marry an internal and external drive as one drive. But then i thought that if one of my HDtivo drives go, the other one is 'trash' as well. (i wouldnt call that a blessing)

so unless one can get the internal and external to not crash together in the directv units, i hope they never 'marry' them (note i dont have any externals)


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

I agree - married disk drives significantly increase the chance of losing everything. Dual disks made sense back when drives were small, but not nowadays.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

stevel said:


> Ok, I can see that. It makes a good archive strategy, though it does complicate things if you have active recordings while using an "archive" disk.


Yep.

As an example of how it can be a pain (and this is just a warning to those who might not have thought this through) the local CW here sometimes "forgets" to air a program in HD. For a serialized program such as "Smallville" that is death. I had to stop watching and let eps pile up while waiting for the HD repeat, which finally came about July. But by then I had a dozen eps backed up, and half were sprinkled through one drive and half were on the other, in no particular order. That makes it a little inconvenient when it becomes time to play back the next one in serial order, even if it did give me fresh TV all summer long.


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## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

Just to be clear, you had an external drive with content recorded, then you moved it internal and the recordings were still intact that you had recorded on the external drive?

If someone hooks up an external drive do the recordings from teh internal get moved to the external? Hooking up the external drive makes the internal one disabled correct?



Fezmid said:


> Surgery is done and was a complete success!
> 
> Good news -- taking an external drive and moving it internal does *NOT* affect the recorded shows (which is what I expected would be the case).
> 
> I'm now running with a 1TB Green Power drive. AND I now own some security torx bits. Pretty cool


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## stevel (Aug 23, 2000)

Nothing gets moved. If you connect an external drive, the internal one is "disconnected".


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## sk33t3r (Jul 9, 2003)

Thanks Steve, Imay just wait until the new dtv tivo boxes comeout.


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