# Digital Cable without CableCard / M-Card?



## Steve28

Hello,

I just bought a Bolt for my parents who live in a large retirement community. They have their own community cable system which provides all of the channels in digital unencrypted form. That is, when I plug the cable from the wall directly into their TV set and do a channel scan, I get like 100 channels a mix of HD and analog.

However, when I set up the bolt, it says I need a CableCard in order to be able to show ANY channels - even the analog ones do not show. Does this thing not even have a tuner capable of "cable" frequencies?

The community does provide a cable card, but you have to buy it for $100. Just seems ridiculous that the Bolt can't/won't let you get in-the-clear digital or analog cable channels without a CableCard. They don't even alter the channel numbers - it's the same direct to the TV and with the card.

Am I just missing something ... or is the Bolt missing a cable tuner?


----------



## JoeKustra

Steve28 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I just bought a Bolt for my parents who live in a large retirement community. They have their own community cable system which provides all of the channels in digital unencrypted form. That is, when I plug the cable from the wall directly into their TV set and do a channel scan, I get like 100 channels a mix of HD and analog.
> 
> However, when I set up the bolt, it says I need a CableCard in order to be able to show ANY channels - even the analog ones do not show. Does this thing not even have a tuner capable of "cable" frequencies?
> 
> The community does provide a cable card, but you have to buy it for $100. Just seems ridiculous that the Bolt can't/won't let you get in-the-clear digital or analog cable channels without a CableCard. They don't even alter the channel numbers - it's the same direct to the TV and with the card.
> 
> Am I just missing something ... or is the Bolt missing a cable tuner?


Well, speaking as a Roamio owner here. There is no analog (NTSC) ability. Forget that. As for clear QAM, if you go to the Settings, Channels, Channel List, there should be a list of all digital channels your Bolt detected. None will be checked. Check them. Make them favorites with thumbs up. Do this for the whole list. They should be the same numbers as shown on your TV (minus the analog).

Back to the guide. Select the "A" option then display channels to Favorites. Exit the guide. Now select the channels that appear. They will not have guide information. The guide depends upon a cable card. During the Guided Setup you should select the option to "add a card later". You should be able to select and view those channels on the guide, even though they have strange numbers. You may be able to make manual recording, you may not. To verify your cable card lineup, go to www.zap2it.com and enter your zipcode and provider. That should be how they will display on the Bolt.

If they are giving you a one time cost of $100 for their cable card that's cheap. I would do that in a minute. I pay $2.95 each for two every month. Good luck.


----------



## Dan203

The CableCARD provides a map from the frequency the channel is on to it's actual call letters. Without it you can't record anything because TiVo has no way to match the guide data to the proper channel.

If you find out which brand it is you might be able to find one on eBay cheaper. I've read about people getting them on eBay for a few bucks. But you need to know if it's a Motorolla or Cisco/Scientific Atlanta system so you can get the right card.


----------



## Steve28

The cable company already does that.. The channel numbers are already correct when the cable is plugged directly into the tv. No need to map. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## tarheelblue32

As stated above, the Bolt has no analog tuner, only a digital tuner. It should be able to tune any digital SD or HD channels, but it's not really designed to work without a CableCard. If all the digital channels are unencrypted, then buying a cheap CableCard off ebay should work, if you get the correct brand.


----------



## zerdian1

Isn't the Series 6 BOLT (500GB Basic and 1TB Plus) both Cable and OTA?

If it is OTA, then it should work WITHOUT A CABLECARD for OTA.

And if it is Cable Ready, then it should work WITH A CABLECARD FOR CABLE.



tarheelblue32 said:


> As stated above, the Bolt has no analog tuner, only a digital tuner. It should be able to tune any digital SD or HD channels, but it's not really designed to work without a CableCard. If all the digital channels are unencrypted, then buying a cheap CableCard off ebay should work, if you get the correct brand.


----------



## tarheelblue32

zerdian1 said:


> Isn't the Series 6 BOLT (500GB Basic and 1TB Plus) both Cable and OTA?
> 
> If it is OTA, then it should work WITHOUT A CABLECARD for OTA.
> 
> And if it is Cable Ready, then it should work WITH A CABLECARD FOR CABLE.


That is, of course, true. Since the OP was asking about cable, not OTA, my statement that it isn't designed to work without a CableCard was referring to it not being designed to work with cable TV without a CableCard.


----------



## Steve28

OP here... I guess I'm a little baffled by not being able to tune in-the-clear digital cable without a cable card. 

In this situation, the community has its own cable system that broadcasts the same cable package to all residents of the community. This cable package is entirely unencrypted digital (because the cable tv is covered under the fees required to live in the community., so there is no need to block it to anyone). 

Just like I can get the entire lineup of channels on the TV when I connect directly to the cable without a cable card, I would expect to be able to get it on he Bolt without the cable card. 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Dan203

You can tune the clear QAM stations you just can't really use the TiVo to it's full potential. This is because the only method TiVo has for mapping the QAM frequencies to their channel data is from the map provided by the CableCARD. In QAM the frequencies mean nothing and can, and do, change at random. The only way for TiVo to know which frequency belongs to which channel is via a map. Some other CableCARD devices allow you to manually setup a map, but TiVo does not. It requires a CableCARD to supply the map.


----------



## teeitup

The Moxi HD DVD has the ability to remap clear QAM channels when used without a cablecard. I wonder why TiVo has never done something similar.


----------



## JoeKustra

Steve28 said:


> The cable company already does that.. The channel numbers are already correct when the cable is plugged directly into the tv. No need to map.


Please provide the call letters and channel number of your (their) CBS channel. Thanks.


----------



## JoeKustra

teeitup said:


> The Moxi HD DVD has the ability to remap clear QAM channels when used without a cablecard. I wonder why TiVo has never done something similar.


Sony did that in 2005 as long as the channel numbers were only 1 to 2 decimal points.


----------



## JoeKustra

zerdian1 said:


> Isn't the Series 6 BOLT (500GB Basic and 1TB Plus) both Cable and OTA?
> 
> If it is OTA, then it should work WITHOUT A CABLECARD for OTA.
> 
> And if it is Cable Ready, then it should work WITH A CABLECARD FOR CABLE.


Analog(VSB) is not 8VSB (OTA). The last box with analog and QAM simultaneous support was the two tuner Premiere. There are still some low power and cable analog channels in a few spots in the country. Since the OP is in a community with its own system, it's very possible analog is still used.

Like the basic Roamio, I think the basic Bolt can receive EITHER OTA or Cable, but not both at the same time.


----------



## aaronwt

JoeKustra said:


> Analog(VSB) is not 8VSB (OTA). The last box with analog and QAM simultaneous support was the two tuner Premiere. There are still some low power and cable analog channels in a few spots in the country. Since the OP is in a community with its own system, it's very possible analog is still used.
> 
> Like the basic Roamio, I think the basic Bolt can receive EITHER OTA or Cable, but not both at the same time.


Yes. It's either Cable or OTA. Not both.

Although I think some people actually got it to use both by combining the OTA and cable signal. But they had to make sure that there were not any overlapping frequencies.


----------



## lessd

tarheelblue32 said:


> As stated above, the Bolt has no analog tuner, only a digital tuner. It should be able to tune any digital SD or HD channels, but it's not really designed to work without a CableCard. If all the digital channels are unencrypted, then buying a cheap CableCard off ebay should work, if you get the correct brand.


Each Cable Card has it own address so unless the card was already mapped from the system you are on it will not work in any other system, if the head end can be set up to use any Cable Card than you would have to call whoever runs your system to see if they can put you E-Bay cable card on their system. Cable Cards don't map themselves.


----------



## mdavej

lessd said:


> Each Cable Card has it own address so unless the card was already mapped from the system you are on it will not work in any other system, if the head end can be set up to use any Cable Card than you would have to call whoever runs your system to see if they can put you E-Bay cable card on their system. Cable Cards don't map themselves.


We know that virtually no cable system will authorize a cable card bought from ebay. If they would, I'm sure we'd all be doing that rather than rent one. But such a card will provide a channel map whether it's authorized or not. Unauthorized, you'll get your map, but you just won't be able to tune in any encrypted channels.

I personally don't mind paying $2/month for a cable card when it means I get over 700 channels instead of zero. Watching TV is usually much more interesting than staring at a doorstop.


----------



## JoeKustra

lessd said:


> Each Cable Card has it own address so unless the card was already mapped from the system you are on it will not work in any other system, if the head end can be set up to use any Cable Card than you would have to call whoever runs your system to see if they can put you E-Bay cable card on their system. Cable Cards don't map themselves.


This year my feed changed headends. My VCT ID went from 3010 to 6. Until I got my card re-initialized, my Channel List Received was NO. Sure it was still working, but any channel lineup change, and I've had a few additions, would not have worked. Like you said, the VCT is very local. But people say it works. Who am I to judge?

I have bought a cable card on eBay for $3. It didn't work.


----------



## tarheelblue32

lessd said:


> Each Cable Card has it own address so unless the card was already mapped from the system you are on it will not work in any other system, if the head end can be set up to use any Cable Card than you would have to call whoever runs your system to see if they can put you E-Bay cable card on their system. Cable Cards don't map themselves.


Your statement has been proven incorrect by the experience of other people on this forum who have bought CableCards off ebay and successfully used them to remap clear-QAM channels.


----------



## Dan203

Steve28 said:


> The cable company already does that.. The channel numbers are already correct when the cable is plugged directly into the tv. No need to map.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


It doesn't work that way though. There is a technology some TVs have called PSIP which can be included in the signal that contains a map, but that's mainly used for OTA not cable and is heavily controlled by the FCC. The CableCARD provides a similar map and that's what TiVo has chosen to use in their product since it's intended for use with main stream cable systems which encrypt most/all of their channels and require a CableCARD anyway.


----------



## JoeKustra

Dan203 said:


> It doesn't work that way though. There is a technology some TVs have called PSIP which can be included in the signal that contains a map, but that's mainly used for OTA not cable and is heavily controlled by the FCC. The CableCARD provides a similar map and that's what TiVo has chosen to use in their product since it's intended for use with main stream cable systems which encrypt most/all of their channels and require a CableCARD anyway.


Way before my cable feed went all digital and before they went all encrypted they stripped the PSIP from everything. I was using TVGOS at the time in a Sony DHG that could use OTA and cable card at the same time. But all cable is local.

It's what got me to buy my first TiVo. I have no chance of OTA.


----------



## apw2607

Maybe i can shed some light on this.

As already stated the bolt (and roamio) has no analog tuner so you can rule out any ability to receive channels that are broadcast on analog frequencies.

Now as far as receiving digital channels with the bolt, without cablecard ... It cannot be done.

Tivo removed a little feature with the bolt allowing it to manually scan for channels. This feature was under channels and apps settings. Without this, you cant scan for channels.

Only with a cablecard will the bolt ever scan for channels. This means the bolt is useless without a cablecard ... For cable.

With the roamio however you can use it with digital cable ... Wihout a cablecard. It allows for manual channel scan.

That said, i find it hard to believe that your digital channels will be on real channel numbers ... But maybe you are lucky and therefore the tivo can map guide data to your channels ... But what i suspect you will see is guide data on real channel numbers . E.g 405, 702 ... Etc ... And your digital channels on 81.21, 91.2, etc. Only with a cablecard can a mapping occur.

As for buying any cablecard off ebay .... Dont. Cablecards are provisioned by the cable-company and any old Cablecard wont work. Although cablecards are often not tied to particuar devices (meaning you can remove it from one device and put it in another and it will work), they are certainly enabled to only work with the cable system it was originally provisioned for.


----------



## Dan203

apw2607 said:


> As for buying any cablecard off ebay .... Dont. Cablecards are provisioned by the cable-company and any old Cablecard wont work. Although cablecards are often not tied to particuar devices (meaning you can remove it from one device and put it in another and it will work), they are certainly enabled to only work with the cable system it was originally provisioned for.


Several people have bought cards off eBay and used them simply to map clear QAM channels. I know the MSO can block cards not provisioned for their network they apparently don't in most cases. And since his system is a simple all clear system, with no encryption, the chances that they would block a CableCARD purchased on eBay is pretty slim.

That being said $100 isn't that much for a card. Most other systems require you to rent one for $3-5/mo and the ones that do require you to buy them usually charge a few hundred dollars. So for peace of mind I'd personally just buy the one from them and call it good.

Although you really need to figure out if there are any channels in their lineup that are analog only. As has been mentioned before TiVo is digital only, so if there are any must have channels that are analog only the whole thing might be a nonstarter. (I had this situation up until a couple of years ago)


----------



## JoeKustra

apw2607 said:


> Tivo removed a little feature with the bolt allowing it to manually scan for channels. This feature was under channels and apps settings. Without this, you cant scan for channels.
> 
> Only with a cablecard will the bolt ever scan for channels. This means the bolt is useless without a cablecard ... For cable.
> 
> With the roamio however you can use it with digital cable ... Wihout a cablecard. It allows for manual channel scan.


I agree 100%. I didn't know that option had changed. In my Roamio and Premiere with a cable card, the option to scan channels is not permitted.

Since the OP has stated his TV picks up analog channels, he/she does have to decide what to do.


----------



## apw2607

JoeKustra said:


> I agree 100%. I didn't know that option had changed. In my Roamio and Premiere with a cable card, the option to scan channels is not permitted.
> 
> Since the OP has stated his TV picks up analog channels, he/she does have to decide what to do.


Indeed. I would suggest picking up a premier for the OPs intended use.


----------



## apw2607

Dan203 said:


> Several people have bought cards off eBay and used them simply to map clear QAM channels. I know the MSO can block cards not provisioned for their network they apparently don't in most cases. And since his system is a simple all clear system, with no encryption, the chances that they would block a CableCARD purchased on eBay is pretty slim.
> 
> That being said $100 isn't that much for a card. Most other systems require you to rent one for $3-5/mo and the ones that do require you to buy them usually charge a few hundred dollars. So for peace of mind I'd personally just buy the one from them and call it good.
> 
> Although you really need to figure out if there are any channels in their lineup that are analog only. As has been mentioned before TiVo is digital only, so if there are any must have channels that are analog only the whole thing might be a nonstarter. (I had this situation up until a couple of years ago)


I agree. My Cable company charges me $5.95 / month per card. I would happily pay a one off $100 !


----------



## lessd

tarheelblue32 said:


> Your statement has been proven incorrect by the experience of other people on this forum who have bought CableCards off ebay and successfully used them to remap clear-QAM channels.


If I purchased a E-Bay cable card that was originally mapped from the Hartford CT Comcast system your correct, some cable systems may just map any cable card in the system, I don't know if that true or not, but it sure not true with Comcast in the Hartford CT area as I have a old cable card form a Boston cable system that somebody gave me when they changed cable co, it does not work for tuning anything on a TiVo, but it does stop the cable card nag when first setting up a new TiVo. (Both systems used the Moto cable cards)


----------



## Dan203

The map is downloaded. The only hurdle is that the cable company can block which cards are allowed to download the map. From everything I've read only FIOS does that. Most other systems will allow cards to download the map as long as they are the right brand for the system they're connecting to.


----------



## Steve28

JoeKustra said:


> I agree 100%. I didn't know that option had changed. In my Roamio and Premiere with a cable card, the option to scan channels is not permitted.
> 
> Since the OP has stated his TV picks up analog channels, he/she does have to decide what to do.


OP here again. Here's the deal: if I plug the cable directly into the tv, I get all the channels in HD digital (2.1, 4.1, etc.) even channels like cnn and tbs... All in HD. No cable card. But the TiVo does not get any of these at all period.

Apparently, the Bolt has no ability to tune in the clear digital cable without a cable card. Period.

When I got the cable card today and put it in, I got all channels and they were mapped to non-decimal numbers.

Just disappointed that this was the case.... But as stated, it's a one-time buy if $100 for the cable card.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve28

apw2607 said:


> Maybe i can shed some light on this.
> 
> ...snip...
> 
> That said, i find it hard to believe that your digital channels will be on real channel numbers ... But maybe you are lucky and therefore the tivo can map guide data to your channels ... But what i suspect you will see is guide data on real channel numbers . E.g 405, 702 ... Etc ... And your digital channels on 81.21, 91.2, etc. Only with a cablecard can a mapping occur.


Thank you. This is exactly what happened.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HarperVision

Dan203 said:


> You can tune the clear QAM stations you just can't really use the TiVo to it's full potential. This is because the only method TiVo has for mapping the QAM frequencies to their channel data is from the map provided by the CableCARD. In QAM the frequencies mean nothing and can, and do, change at random. The only way for TiVo to know which frequency belongs to which channel is via a map. Some other CableCARD devices allow you to manually setup a map, but TiVo does not. It requires a CableCARD to supply the map.


I doubt his small dedicated system will "change at random" much if at all.



JoeKustra said:


> Analog(VSB) is not 8VSB (OTA). The last box with analog and QAM simultaneous support was the two tuner Premiere. There are still some low power and cable analog channels in a few spots in the country. Since the OP is in a community with its own system, it's very possible analog is still used. Like the basic Roamio, I think the basic Bolt can receive EITHER OTA or Cable, but not both at the same time.





aaronwt said:


> Yes. It's either Cable or OTA. Not both. Although I think some people actually got it to use both by combining the OTA and cable signal. But they had to make sure that there were not any overlapping frequencies.


Yes I do it now myself merging a DirecTV system and my limited basic cable TiVo setup using an ATSC Modulator.



lessd said:


> Each Cable Card has it own address so unless the card was already mapped from the system you are on it will not work in any other system, if the head end can be set up to use any Cable Card than you would have to call whoever runs your system to see if they can put you E-Bay cable card on their system. Cable Cards don't map themselves.


Not true at all. If the card matches the headend it will be automatically detected and the latest firmware will be downloaded to it as well as its channel map. This doesn't "activate" it meaning decrypting the channels to be viewed, but it DOES map the freqs to the channels.



tarheelblue32 said:


> Your statement has been proven incorrect by the experience of other people on this forum who have bought CableCards off ebay and successfully used them to remap clear-QAM channels.


Yes, see previous reply.



apw2607 said:


> ........ Only with a cablecard can a mapping occur. As for buying any cablecard off ebay .... Dont. Cablecards are provisioned by the cable-company and any old Cablecard wont work. Although cablecards are often not tied to particuar devices (meaning you can remove it from one device and put it in another and it will work), they are certainly enabled to only work with the cable system it was originally provisioned for.


Actually the Tuning Adapter (in systems where they're used) takes over the channel mapping duties.

As for what you said about cablecards, again, not true. See above.


----------



## JoeKustra

Steve28 said:


> OP here again. Here's the deal: if I plug the cable directly into the tv, I get all the channels in HD digital (2.1, 4.1, etc.) even channels like cnn and tbs... All in HD. No cable card. But the TiVo does not get any of these at all period.
> 
> Apparently, the Bolt has no ability to tune in the clear digital cable without a cable card. Period.
> 
> When I got the cable card today and put it in, I got all channels and they were mapped to non-decimal numbers.
> 
> Just disappointed that this was the case.... But as stated, it's a one-time buy if $100 for the cable card.


That's quite a radical change for TiVo. The frequency used by your HD CNN with or without a cable card will be the same. You can check that if the TV has diagnostics, and they haven't removed the TiVo box diagnostics for the tuners. Of course, I would never ask anyone to test this for a second opinion. I would never do it myself. I did learn yesterday that when Guided Setup and selected "no cable card" the manual addition of my single clear QAM and five analog channels worked, but I could not select the QAM channel. A Guided setup with "install later" was ok. But there is that message during restart looking for the card, as was previously posted.

Since I still get one clear QAM and those analog AGC level channels, I run coax to my TV's input. This allows me to see if there is any difference in signal should a problem happen. All I can say now is: happy viewing.


----------



## HerronScott

HarperVision said:


> Not true at all. If the card matches the headend it will be automatically detected and the latest firmware will be downloaded to it as well as its channel map. This doesn't "activate" it meaning decrypting the channels to be viewed, but it DOES map the freqs to the channels.


I can verify this worked on our local Comcast system as well for local broadcast stations up until last December when Comcast started encrypting those as well (Cisco/SA CableCard and it did update the firmware to the latest for Comcast when it was inserted).

Scott


----------



## Dan203

HarperVision said:


> I doubt his small dedicated system will "change at random" much if at all.


Probably not, but a lot do. And TiVo would need to develop a manual mapping feature like that with all possible systems in mind. I just can't see this being a very popular feature. Especially going forward as more and more system convert to all digital and start to encrypt every channel. The days of clear QAM are limited and it would be a waste of time for TiVo to do something like this now. (maybe a decade ago when the S3 was released)


----------



## JoeKustra

Dan203 said:


> Probably not, but a lot do. And TiVo would need to develop a manual mapping feature like that with all possible systems in mind. I just can't see this being a very popular feature. Especially going forward as more and more system convert to all digital and start to encrypt every channel. The days of clear QAM are limited and it would be a waste of time for TiVo to do something like this now. (maybe a decade ago when the S3 was released)


Clear QAM is very rare. But here is some trivia. On my basic Premiere I did a Guided Setup and told it I was not going to use a cable card. When it finished, I could get my lone QAM channel onto the guide but I could not select it. I redid the guided setup and gave it the "later" answer. After the scan I could select, from the guide, my QAM channel. Oddly, the time since OOB tune start was not wiped. I'm at about 1.5 million since I pulled its plug when I went to FL for a visit. 428 channels on my feed.


----------



## Dan203

The Bolt does not even have the channel scan feature. And even on TiVos that do, like your Premiere, there is no way for you to tell it that lone QAM channel is for example NBC. So it has no way to know which guide data to use for that channel to actually record from it. That's where the problem lies and why you need a CableCARD to get the map.


----------



## JoeKustra

Dan203 said:


> The Bolt does not even have the channel scan feature. And even on TiVos that do, like your Premiere, there is no way for you to tell it that lone QAM channel is for example NBC. So it has no way to know which guide data to use for that channel to actually record from it. That's where the problem lies and why you need a CableCARD to get the map.


Without a PSIP, and no cable card, I spent several years recording HD with my four Sony DHG DVRs since my clear QAM was great. When I heard that the channels were about to be encrypted, I bought my first TiVo, which I still use. My "guide" was a MSWord document.


----------



## zerdian1

So they say that bolt is both OTA and Cable.
I think they might mean directly from HDTV antenna.
or Cable with a cablecard.

How are you getting HDTV over Cable that is not from cable provider?
if so you need a cablecard.

the OTA using HDTV antenna does not work than it is not OTA capable.

2.1 and 4.1 sound like HDTV channels.
I remember when I could get them from my comcast cable directly connected to my HDTV Screen, even when I did not have a Comcast TV acct. But I do not know why it worked.
Maybe the cable acted as an HDTV antenna and caught the OTA signal over the air.



Steve28 said:


> OP here again. Here's the deal: if I plug the cable directly into the tv, I get all the channels in HD digital (2.1, 4.1, etc.) even channels like cnn and tbs... All in HD. No cable card. But the TiVo does not get any of these at all period.
> 
> Apparently, the Bolt has no ability to tune in the clear digital cable without a cable card. Period.
> 
> When I got the cable card today and put it in, I got all channels and they were mapped to non-decimal numbers.
> 
> Just disappointed that this was the case.... But as stated, it's a one-time buy if $100 for the cable card.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve28

It's because this community is its own cable provider. It's like living in an apartment building where basic cable is provided in the clear to all residents, except in this case it's a whole community. 

But what you said is true. The TiVo bolt is OTA or Cable WITH CABLECARD. there is no way to use the bolt with cable without a Cablecard.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## lessd

Dan203 said:


> The map is downloaded. The only hurdle is that the cable company can block which cards are allowed to download the map. From everything I've read only FIOS does that. Most other systems will allow cards to download the map as long as they are the right brand for the system they're connecting to.


I can only speak for Comcast Hartford CT and that MSO will not download the channel map on a cable card not owned by them, I have such a card and it will not download anything, I also have a cable card (not paired) that was originally from this Comcast area and that does have the correct channel map on it., but I don't know if channel changes are downloaded on that card.


----------



## apw2607

lessd said:


> I can only speak for Comcast Hartford CT and that MSO will not download the channel map on a cable card not owned by them, I have such a card and it will not download anything, I also have a cable card (not paired) that was originally from this Comcast area and that does have the correct channel map on it., but I don't know if channel changes are downloaded on that card.


I did a bit more fiddling around with the bolt and this is what i discovered. If the cablecard is not first enabled, then the bolt can never finish guided setup and find channels. Since manual scan is not possible then youre out of options.

However, what is possible ... If you compete guided setup with a enabled cable card, you can later remove it and replace with a non-enabled "dumb" card and the bolt will continue to function, change and show channels and download guide data. Obviously only clearQAM channels are shown.


----------



## lessd

apw2607 said:


> I did a bit more fiddling around with the bolt and this is what i discovered. If the cablecard is not first enabled, then the bolt can never finish guided setup and find channels. Since manual scan is not possible then youre out of options.
> 
> However, what is possible ... If you compete guided setup with a enabled cable card, you can later remove it and replace with a non-enabled "dumb" card and the bolt will continue to function, change and show channels and download guide data. Obviously only clearQAM channels are shown.


I wonder if that will work for the Roamio ? The RCN enabled Cable Card I have is from the Boston area, when I put into a Roamio it get to 72% of channel scan then just stops, on my Comcast system I can't get anything from the old RCN Cable Card, I don't think Comcast (Hartford CT) will download their ch. map on a card that not in their system.


----------



## TivoEddie

ok guys I'm new at this but I been doing a lot of reading and going to try to explain my problem but please excuse any dumb comments.

Couple of things to let you know:
I live in a small condo with a small cable provider Harbor Communication
We get almost all basic cable channels plus HBO
Just connect straight to tv...NO box or receiver

OK. So here's my problem. I bought a Tivo Bolt with cable and OTA abilities. But the bolt needs a CC. The cable company does not offer a cable card so the Tivo people told me I had to buy a Tivo Premier to work on this system and it worked perfect. Now my problem is my small cable provider wants to help me get my bolt working but they don't know how. I bought a cable card off eBay but after setup it just scans channels to 89% and just stops. Is there any info that you guys can help me get off my Premier and enter into the cable card or is there anyway to bypass needing a cable card altogether or is there a number that my cable provider can call and learn what to do. Regular customer services was not very helpful. All channels from my provider are open but I guess some provider info is needed on the CC. My provider was not even listed in the setup at first but Tivo worked with them and got it loaded in the setup options.

I know this is very little info and know this is probaly a lot more complicated than i think but I believe anything is possible.... Thanks for any info...


----------



## HarperVision

TivoEddie said:


> ok guys I'm new at this but I been doing a lot of reading and going to try to explain my problem but please excuse any dumb comments. Couple of things to let you know: I live in a small condo with a small cable provider Harbor Communication We get almost all basic cable channels plus HBO Just connect straight to tv...NO box or receiver OK. So here's my problem. I bought a Tivo Bolt with cable and OTA abilities. But the bolt needs a CC. The cable company does not offer a cable card so the Tivo people told me I had to buy a Tivo Premier to work on this system and it worked perfect. Now my problem is my small cable provider wants to help me get my bolt working but they don't know how. I bought a cable card off eBay but after setup it just scans channels to 89% and just stops. Is there any info that you guys can help me get off my Premier and enter into the cable card or is there anyway to bypass needing a cable card altogether or is there a number that my cable provider can call and learn what to do. Regular customer services was not very helpful. All channels from my provider are open but I guess some provider info is needed on the CC. My provider was not even listed in the setup at first but Tivo worked with them and got it loaded in the setup options. I know this is very little info and know this is probaly a lot more complicated than i think but I believe anything is possible.... Thanks for any info...


A couple questions:

1. Is their cable feed analog, digital, or a combination of both? Analog channels are usually whole numbers like 2, 3, 4, etc. while digital are usually with a sub digit like 2.1, 3.2, 4.3, etc. (but not always). If so then they're correct that only a Premiere 2 tuner or earlier device will work to get all of your channels properly.

2. Did you make sure to buy the correct make of cablecard to match your provider's headend equipment, either Arris/Motorola or Scientific Atlanta/Cisco? They must match to work and your provider's headend must also be able to supply a channel map to the cablecard. It's a good thing that they got their lineup included in the Rovi/TiVo lineup selections, that's a good first step. Oh thinking of, when did they submit their lineup? If it was more than a month or so ago they may have submitted to Gracenote but TiVo has since switched to Rovi (now New TiVo) guide data. Search the numerous threads here on TCF for details.


----------



## JoeKustra

TivoEddie said:


> I know this is very little info and know this is probaly a lot more complicated than i think but I believe anything is possible.... Thanks for any info...


May I inquire as to your zipcode?
The call letters of your CBS station and it's channel on your TV?


----------



## TivoEddie

channel line up is:

200...channel line up
201....channel guide...Scrolling very slow
202...ABC
204....CBS WKRG
Ect. Ect.

Harbor Communication Essential Plus (My cable provider)
Area code 36561 

The small little cable company wants to help with anything i need...They just don't know how or what is needed

Cable Card I bought is a Motorola

thanks for the replies


----------



## JoeKustra

TivoEddie said:


> channel line up is:
> 
> 200...channel line up
> 201....channel guide...Scrolling very slow
> 202...ABC
> 204....CBS
> Ect. Ect.
> 
> *Harbor Communication Essential Plus*
> Area code 36561
> 
> The small little cable company wants to help with anything i need...They just don't know how or what is needed
> 
> Cable Card I bought is a Motorola
> 
> thanks for the replies


Let's go back to your first post. Your channels start at 200 and go to 812. That's unlikely analog. If your TV has signal diagnostics, it would help to know the frequency of channel 204.

Go to http://www.tv.com/listings/ and enter your zipcode and select your provider.

I'm afraid I can't offer a solution to your problem. I just don't have enough information. BTW, your CBS station is WKRG and transmits on UHF 27 and uses PSIP to make it display on 5. That's what you would see if your TV was connected to an antenna.

Using your Premiere, go to Setting & Messages, Account and System Info, TiVo box Diagnostics. For the first channel displayed, what does it say for:
Channel
Frequency
Modulation
Video PID

Maybe that will help.


----------



## HarperVision

When I go to your tv.com link and put in his zip and provider it looks and appears to only go from channels 2-114, which makes me think it's analog cable. When you hit the "HD Only" option it only shows the local networks, MGM-HD and another channel.


----------



## JoeKustra

HarperVision said:


> When I go to your tv.com link and put in his zip and provider it looks and appears to only go from channels 2-114, which makes me think it's analog cable. When you hit the "HD Only" option it only shows the local networks, MGM-HD and another channel.


There is another provider with a name that is close. I used:
Harbor Communication Essential Plus

You may have used:
Harbor Communication Summer House, Orange Beach.


----------

