# LOST "Dave" OAD 4/5/06 *spoilers*



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Ep won't start for another 90 minutes here in AZ but it should have started on the East Coast so...

DISCUSS!!!

P.S. Since I started the thread, I decree that there be no running commentary posts. Just comment on the show after it's over, not all the way through. Thanks.


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## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

All I can say is...about the last scene...HOLY CRAP!


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## SeanC (Dec 30, 2003)

I don't think that quite describes it.......


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


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## scottykempf (Dec 1, 2004)

Whole episode kinda meh. So Hurley has a stash of food and Libby tells him to dump it???? They do know that they are stranded on an island, right? And might someday run out of food, right? Would hate to be the person who died because Hurley dumped the mayo. 

Dave being not real, was pretty much telegraphed the whole ep. Libby being at the asylum was alluded to and/or hinted about weeks ago.


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## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

scottykempf said:


> Whole episode kinda meh. So Hurley has a stash of food and Libby tells him to dump it???? They do know that they are stranded on an island, right?


Are they? Or is it all in Hurley's head?


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## mightyb (Dec 5, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


...my wife called it out pretty quickly...

I'm glad they explained him as "imaginary"...

but Libby....AH.....nice....physco crazy thing now...


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## ogden2k (Jun 5, 2004)

I very much enjoyed this episode. I don't understand the people here... so high on your TV critiquing horses.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

No. Comment.

Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?

Bleh.


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## bigcb37 (Jun 14, 2002)

Seriously...AWESOME EPISODE... I havent seen something this good on TV in forever...there are so many different ways they can go with this. Cant wait.


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## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

bdowell said:


> No. Comment.
> 
> Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?
> 
> Bleh.


Unfortunately I have to somewhat agree with this. Honestly, this was my initial reaction through most of the episode...I was thinking, "This can't be all there is to it. What a let down!" Yet at the same time, that ending was....WOW  

As stated above, too much time, effort, and thought has been put into this show by the viewers for the writers to cop out with such an explanation. I'm holding out hope there's more to it than meets the eye.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

bdowell said:


> No. Comment.
> 
> Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?
> 
> Bleh.


Too soon to think they went the St. Elsewhere route


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## ogden2k (Jun 5, 2004)

How can you say this is the writers way out? Why would they base an entire show off from someone's comma-dream? Please...


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## mightyb (Dec 5, 2003)

Hurley kicking Sawyers ass while shouting out all the names he has called him was a riot...
And Charlie was a comedian as well tonight...


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

Was that the St. E's route or Dallas or Dynasty? I thought that was Dallas. I thought this episode was lametastic until I saw her face turn down after they walked away from the cliff. I knew something was up in a sceond. I said to my wife "What is up with that look?". She had me rewind it to see which set-up the last scene as [valley girl] total shocker [/valley girl].

I thought that Henry's line "Not even god knows were here" (or something to that effect) was a great line to keep the purgatorians out there going.


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## bellvis (Aug 1, 2000)

mightyb said:


> Hurley kicking Sawyers ass while shouting out all the names he has called him was a riot...
> And Charlie was a comedian as well tonight...


The riot to me was seeing Jin enjoy the show.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

bellvis said:


> The riot to me was seeing Jin enjoy the show.


That had me in stitches too.


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## Grumpy Pants (Jul 1, 2002)

Do we think Henry pressed the button?


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## kyms66 (Feb 19, 2003)

My Tivo shut down just as Hurley told Libby she looked familiar... Please, what did they say or do after that line!?


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

kyms66 said:


> My Tivo shut down just as Hurley told Libby she looked familiar... Please, what did they say or do after that line!?


Um she kissed him, told him she was real.

They showed Hurley back in the nuthouse and you see Libby all wacked out taking meds in the same nuthouse


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

A nice wopping serving of ambiguity. Loved it!


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## bigcb37 (Jun 14, 2002)

bdowell said:


> No. Comment.
> 
> Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?
> 
> Bleh.


You guys really think its all in Hurley's head? No way...the Lost writers have more for us then just that...red herring...


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

I enjoyed it.

What will Hurley have Jack, Locke and the gang up to next week. I can't wait to find out.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

> I'm not crazy - institutionalized
> You're the one who's crazy - institutionalized
> You're driving me crazy - institutionalized
> 
> ...


--Suicidal Tendencies.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

uncdrew said:


> I enjoyed it.
> 
> What will Hurley have Jack, Locke and the gang up to next week. I can't wait to find out.


I like that thought. So what if it's all in Hurley's head? What's the difference whether black smoke monsters and smiley-face balloons are an invention of Hurley or an invention of the writers?

So I change my vote. A wopping dose of surrealism. Loved it!


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## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

So have most of the main characters now 'seen' or 'hallucinated' someone or something from their past now. Is this an indication that they are all getting 'sick'?


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## 5thcrewman (Sep 23, 2003)

Did his uncle shoot Hurley in the gut?


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## weymo (Jan 26, 2003)

I really liked Lost until I saw some commentary about some of the writers saying that they would come up with a way to pull it all together...like they do not have a master storyline worked out. I wouldn't be at all surprised that as viewers grow tired on waiting for answers that are clever and that make sense and as ratings decline, that they writers who remain will take some lame way out--it's all in coma boy's head (St. Elsewhere), purgatory, fantasy island, projections of a psi-kid (pages of the comic book).
Does anybody else feel like the primrose path is overgrown?


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## weymo (Jan 26, 2003)

bryan314 said:


> So have most of the main characters now 'seen' or 'hallucinated' someone or something from their past now. Is this an indication that they are all getting 'sick'?


So it's the food right? The food is tainted and this is all some big experiment.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

weymo said:


> Does anybody else feel like the primrose path is overgrown?


I say stop and smell the primroses!


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


Me

I actually thought it was a GREAT episode. Really just a tease to the fans of the show and various conspiracy theorists...

Think of all the things discussed on the hundreds of lost boards that was either explained or alluded to:

1) Blast doors closing b/c of the drop
2) Hurley never losing weight
3) No way a hottie falls for Hurley
4) What happens when someone doesn't push the button
5) The whole Island being in someone's imagination


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## Dilerium (Dec 3, 2005)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Was that the St. E's route or Dallas or Dynasty? I thought that was Dallas. I thought this episode was lametastic until I saw her face turn down after they walked away from the cliff. I knew something was up in a sceond. I said to my wife "What is up with that look?". She had me rewind it to see which set-up the last scene as [valley girl] total shocker [/valley girl].


I kinda thought it was an "I can't believe I had to kiss him" look. Sort of like having to do something unpleasant in order to keep from blowing her cover. But she can't be an "other" since we know she came from the plane and we've seen her at the mental hospital.


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## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

Grumpy Pants said:


> Do we think Henry pressed the button?


I do. He's playing with Locke and Locke believes everything he says.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

*{way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}*
Just wanted to say, before I gain my composure and decide to unsay it, that anyone complaining about this episode - _in my opinion_ - won't ever enjoy the show. This was one of the best episodes yet this season - _by far_.. If you didn't like this, they're not going in the direction you've carved your hopes around.. I'm sorry for you, it's always disappointing when things don't go your way. Please bow out now rather than complaining that they didn't meet your specific narrow expectations, ruining others enjoyment of an incredibly entertaining show.
*{/way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}*

Ok, now that that's out of the way - I hated this episode - they didn't answer anything! And what's with the Hurley actor's acting? He didn't look confused at all - horrible. Gale's discussion was weak, the fight with Sawyer was lame, and the..... wait.... I don't think any of that! I _*loved*_ this episode!!

An avalanche of satisfying information, wonderfully insideously planted questions that will haunt us until the very last episode, an emotionally rich story, an incredible Locke/Henry exchange, and at the same time - lots of things to shut us up about the miscellaneous uninteresting questions like "why didn't he lose weight?", "where did the hatch get food from?", "why would she be with him?" and "when is hurley going to finally beat the %$# out of Sawyer?".. (ok, we probably didn't ask the last one too much).

I can't even start to think of the number questions we now have about Libby.. will she start losing it without meds now, or is she over them? Was she stalking Hurley, and that's why she was on the plane? Was she wondering the same thing he was about the numbers, when he went to Australia to ask the lady about her husband? Did she really become a doctor? Does she exist? (almost want to watch The Other 48 Days again).. At least we know that Hurley mentioned her to someone (something like "the blond chick seems kinda cute" or something).

Great episode.. I think I'll actually rewatch this one soon (haven't rewatched any episode for months now).. First, gotta finish reading the past two week's threads.

Awesome episode. Awesome.

..Jeff

p.s. Anna, get the hell out of Locke's hatch.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

Good episode. I'm dumb, I did't see Dave as an imaginary friend. I'm dumb, I was also surprised when Libby showed up in the nut hut. Yes, it was eluded to before, but actually seeing it was a shock.

Good episode, Lost has really picked up the last couple of weeks.

tk


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Hey, did anyone else notice that Hurley was affected/plagued by the numbers before he even got to the insane asylum to hear them from Leonard?

The deck was built to hold 8 people, but there were 23 on it.. (presumably he was 23).. That's what got him _into_ the institution.... ...where he met Leonard, and learned the numbers..

By the way, I _loved_ the choice of actors for the therapist.. Bruce Davison played George Orr in The Lathe of Heaven, which seemed _almost_ relevant/similar to Hurley's belief that this was all in his head, but maybe more relevant to Walt?


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## e11m1c (Mar 30, 2006)

i'm convinced it all has to do with electromagnetism. go to www.wikipedia.org and search for lost. there are very interesting theories posted... a lot have to do with books read by the writers, and there are some obvious connections to some really weird (in a good way) aspects of some sci-fi books. one has to do with the effect of electromagnetism, insofar as it is theorized to cause the "melding" of personalities.... i.e., everyone is showing up in everyone else's imagination and memories because of their exposure to massive amounts of electromagnetic energy. this would give cause to question any and all of the flashbacks --- maybe they're only remembering each other because of their exposure to the electromagnetism on the island?

i am also pretty convinced that "henry gale" is trying to escape from the others. he took the real henry gale's identity so that he could pass among the crash-ees. he's clearly intimidated by the thought of returning to the others - he says that "he" is going to kill him. i think "he" refers to zeke.


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## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

e11m1c said:


> he says that "he" is going to kill him. i think "he" refers to zeke.


Didn't Jack say "The guy in the beard?" meaning Zeke and Henry say "He's nothing." I thought I took from that that he certainly WAS NOT referring to Zeke.

tk


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Call me crazy if you want, but here's where I'm thinking things stand.

L O S T == this movie with Hurley in the


Spoiler



John Nash (Russell Crowe) role


 (see this link for more info about that role.)

It may or not still be fun to watch in the future, but I think tonites episode bore just as much, if not more, resemblance to a shark jump as this week's episode of 24.

It seems as if the writers in Hollywood are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at the joke they're currently pulling over on all of us, the audience, and you know, they probably have a right to, since we buy this crap hook, line, and sinker.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

MikeMar said:


> Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


I was almost 100% sure, but once he took the picture I was positive, I even layed out the scene when he showed him the picture for my wife.


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## vertigo235 (Oct 27, 2000)

pendragn said:


> Didn't Jack say "The guy in the beard?" meaning Zeke and Henry say "He's nothing." I thought I took from that that he certainly WAS NOT referring to Zeke.
> 
> tk


Also in an earlier episode when claire was in medical facility we overheard Zeke talk about "him", so Zeke can't be "him" if he was afriad of what "he" would do.


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> I can't even start to think of the number questions we now have about Libby.. will she start losing it without meds now, or is she over them? Was she stalking Hurley, and that's why she was on the plane? Was she wondering the same thing he was about the numbers, when he went to Australia to ask the lady about her husband? Did she really become a doctor? Does she exist? (almost want to watch The Other 48 Days again).. At least we know that Hurley mentioned her to someone (something like "the blond chick seems kinda cute" or something).


Well she interact with Ana Lucia too.
And she could be a psychiatrist and had to spend time in the loony bin.
A lot of mental health workers are screwed up (part of that is a hazard of the job).
On the other hand, maybe she's stalking him because of his money.

At least Cynthia Watros has experience playing against heavy guys.
First Drew Carey and now Jorge Reyes...


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## brott (Feb 23, 2001)

Didn't the Hurley/Dave thing kinda resemble the Jack/Jack's Dad thing from the "White Rabbit" episode?


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## lordargent (Nov 12, 2002)

That whole hurley-dumping-the-food scene, reminded me of the mustard man


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

I didn't see the twist about Dave not being real coming at all. Why would I have suspected that, were there any previous allusions to it? 

This was an awesome episode. The final scene gave me goosebumps.

I don't think this is all in Hurley's head, but it was cool that the writers brought it up.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I loved the episode, but I hated how casual they seem to be with food. First, Hurley throws all his food on the ground, without even thinking about the rest of the people who would probably give just about anything for it. Next, the people fight over the food on the pallet, to the point that they are smashing things, and finally, Sawyer is trying to open up an Oreo and when it breaks, he just tosses it aside as if it's not good enough for him. What is up with that? Why would they be acting this way toward food?

I'm totally intrigued by the Hurley/Libby thing. I can't wait to see if this continues or if the next ep will go back to what we are used to and we'll be left to wonder for a long time about this episode.


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## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

bdowell said:


> Call me crazy if you want, but here's where I'm thinking things stand.
> 
> L O S T == this movie with Hurley in the
> 
> ...


To tell you the truth, I think the writer's are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at people who think that it's a real possibility that the whole show is just Hurley in the mental institution imagining everything.

-smak-


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> and at the same time - lots of things to shut us up about the miscellaneous uninteresting questions like "why didn't he lose weight?"


one could argue this was part of the plot line all along. They made it seem like they were just explaining his lack of weight loss nonchalantly, but in reality, his lack of weight loss is really a major plot line, as it is what ultimately forced him into the looney bin and his schizo was manisfested by eating.

I absolutely cannot wait to see how they piss off all the haters in the season finale!!!  Awesome episode. :up:

Has Eko been lifting? He seems a little buffer than I remember.


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

Dilerium said:


> I kinda thought it was an "I can't believe I had to kiss him" look. Sort of like having to do something unpleasant in order to keep from blowing her cover. But she can't be an "other" since we know she came from the plane and we've seen her at the mental hospital.


Libby gave that same look after should told Michael that Sawyer would be alright afte he passed out. That is where people got the idea that something wasn't right with her.

I couldn't tell if it was bad acting/editing or was meant to be shown that way. Still trying to decide.

kel


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

MickeS said:


> I didn't see the twist about Dave not being real coming at all. Why would I have suspected that, were there any previous allusions to it?


There were subtle clues. He actively encouraged Hurley to eat which is a strange thing for a real person to do. I saw it as the "devil" side of his conscience pretty quickly. When this thought occured to me, I then started paying attention to see if anyone else talked to or touched Dave. Nobody else acknowledged him except the doctor, who was pretty patronizing. When he busted out the camera, I knew for sure he was just getting proof for Hurley.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

devdogaz said:


> I loved the episode, but I hated how casual they seem to be with food. First, Hurley throws all his food on the ground, without even thinking about the rest of the people who would probably give just about anything for it. Next, the people fight over the food on the pallet, to the point that they are smashing things, and finally, Sawyer is trying to open up an Oreo and when it breaks, he just tosses it aside as if it's not good enough for him. What is up with that? Why would they be acting this way toward food?


My wife had the same reaction. They're on a deserted island and they are throwing away food? Pretty bizarre.


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## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> They showed Hurley back in the nuthouse and you see Libby all wacked out taking meds in the same nuthouse


When Libby's roots start growing out, Hurley's going to figure out where he met her before.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

smak said:


> To tell you the truth, I think the writer's are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at people who think that it's a real possibility that the whole show is just Hurley in the mental institution imagining everything.
> 
> -smak-


I agree. How can anyone watch this episode and still think it's going to be revealed as all taking place in Hurley's head? Sailed right over your heads I guess.


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## getbak (Oct 8, 2004)

TIVOSciolist said:


> When Libby's roots start growing out, Hurley's going to figure out where he met her before.


Maybe she can ask Sawyer for his secret hair color stash (he seems to have everything else).

Or maybe Jin might be able to hook her up...


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

bdowell said:


> why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?
> 
> Bleh.


Because, as a culture, we are delusional and overeat, so many writers of fiction have those afflictions.

Oh, you probably meant the character Hurley, rather than the writers.

Well, it's been pretty much proven we will watch anything that has any intelligence and wit at all, and Lost is a net plus.

Maybe Hurley is autistic.


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## fliptheflop (Sep 20, 2005)

I understand people wondering about Hurley just throwing the food around, but this is a guy with blood on his hands which he believes is because that he was to heavy and caused the deck to brake. Now with all that on his mind and its something thats been with him the food is his disease. You'd probably go crazy like that to. Its not just food its a reminder.


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## Redux (Oct 19, 2004)

bdowell said:


> the writers ... are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at the joke they're currently pulling over on all of us, the audience, and you know, they probably have a right to, since we buy this crap hook, line, and sinker.


Basically three possibiliities: 1. It's all a crapshoot from script to script, 2. There's _kinda_ a roadmap, with much clarity in basic direction and a notion of the destination, but with much undefined and plenty of flexibility to adapt to new ideas and audience feedback as we go along, 3. It's all predetermined and basically set in concrete.

As a viewer, do we care? And to the extent that I _do_ care, I prefer 1 or 2 over 3. If I'm entertained, I don't care what the writers' motives or opinions of my intelligence are. Let them have fun with us. But I think the fact is we're all in on the joke.


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## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

scottykempf said:


> Dave being not real, was pretty much telegraphed the whole ep. Libby being at the asylum was alluded to and/or hinted about weeks ago.


I don't remember this, do you remember more details?

I liked the episode, I knew Dave wasn't real right way you could see it in Hurely's eyes. I love the actor that played Dave, did anyone else watch the sitcom he was in with Jennifer Grey? It wasn't on long but I thought it was funny.

Emily


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## balboa dave (Jan 19, 2004)

jkeegan said:


> *{way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}*
> Just wanted to say, before I gain my composure and decide to unsay it, that anyone complaining about this episode - _in my opinion_ - won't ever enjoy the show. This was one of the best episodes yet this season - _by far_.. If you didn't like this, they're not going in the direction you've carved your hopes around.. I'm sorry for you, it's always disappointing when things don't go your way. Please bow out now rather than complaining that they didn't meet your specific narrow expectations, ruining others enjoyment of an incredibly entertaining show.
> *{/way-too-strong-politically-incorrect-opinion-mode}*
> ..Jeff


I can think of some other show threads for which this opinion applies, although maybe not as much as Lost. Very well said. :up:


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## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Um she kissed him, told him she was real.
> 
> They showed Hurley back in the nuthouse and you see Libby all wacked out taking meds in the same nuthouse


Libby was watching the doctor take the photo of Hurley and "Dave" - they showed Hurley having his arm around an empty chair.


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

Roadblock said:


> I agree. How can anyone watch this episode and still think it's going to be revealed as all taking place in Hurley's head? Sailed right over your heads I guess.


I think it's all taking place in Libby's mind.


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## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Saw Dave not being real from the start. When they were playing basketball, nobody would pass it to him. That tipped my off.

I can't wait till the series finale if it ever comes. I think the show is so good now that they will NEVER be able to live up to expectations. Whatever the ending is that they come up with probably won't satisfy anyone here. I guess I don't have as much confidence in Hollywood as some of you. Some of the theories floating around are just too smart...and Hollywood is just not that smart.


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## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

JYoung said:


> At least Cynthia Watros has experience playing against heavy guys.
> First Drew Carey and now Jorge Reyes...


I thought the same thing - why does she get paired with heavy guys? 

Great episode. It really answered some questions about Hurley's past, while also dropping subtle clues about the nature of the island and the hatch. I also saw that Dave wasn't realy (shades of Sixth Sense) but didn't expect Libby to be sitting there.

So Ecko's building something, huh? How much do you want to bet it's a church?


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## TiVoSoFine (Mar 19, 2001)

Sawyer's line when he was joking about opening a mini mart:
"Do you think Sayid needs a job?"


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## Carlucci (Jan 10, 2001)

Was the final scene Libby's flashback, or nobody's in particular? 

If nobody's, Is this the first time that the writers have shown us a segment from the past that was NOT someone's flashback? 

This could be important later if they ever try the old "these are implanted memories" trick.


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## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


It occurred to me in that very first conversation with the doctor when they were discussing Dave and we hadn't yet seen him. But I then dismissed it as soon as we saw Dave on the basketball court. When Hurley was eating the peanut butter and Dave appeared, then the imaginary friend idea occurred to me again and I then just was just watching the show for confirmation.

The thing that gave it away was the overuse of the word "Dave". When talking about Dave with the doctor, they always just referred to him by name; never used any pronouns like "he", "him". It made the dialog unnatural to me.

"Dave says..."
"Dave is a bad influence on you"
"But Dave told me"
"You can't believe Dave"
"Dave says I shouldn't listen to you"
Dave, Dave, Dave.

If they hadn't gone that route in the conversations, I woud have been totally fooled.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

cherry ghost said:


> I do. He's playing with Locke and Locke believes everything he says.


I believe Henry pushed the button because...



Spoiler



I believe in a podcast the creator of the show said that there would be definite ramifications of NOT pushing the button.



I also think that Henry is trying to get Locke & company to NOT push the button by convincing them that he didn't push the button.

Edited to fix an embarrasing spelling error.


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## yaddayaddayadda (Apr 8, 2003)

lordargent said:


> That whole hurley-dumping-the-food scene, reminded me of the mustard man


Me too!!!! :up: I was totally waiting for him to dip into some mustard.


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## StrynBean (Aug 5, 2004)

emandbri said:


> I don't remember this, do you remember more details?
> 
> I liked the episode, I knew Dave wasn't real right way you could see it in Hurely's eyes. I love the actor that played Dave, did anyone else watch the sitcom he was in with Jennifer Grey? It wasn't on long but I thought it was funny.
> 
> Emily


He was in Sex and the City. He played Charlottes divorce lawyer/husband.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

markz said:


> I believe Henry pussed the button because...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well the sequence of events we heard last week and Henry described were identitcal to the other time they waited that long to push the button so either the button pushing (or lack of) does nothing that is obvious to the people there or he pushed just like the other time.

I suspected Dave was imginary all along. It was good to them actually confirm something absolutely for once.

This was a great episode and I think they have really moved things in the last 3. Of course, they have given rise to plenty of new questions as well.


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## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

mask2343 said:


> Saw Dave not being real from the start. When they were playing basketball, nobody would pass it to him. That tipped my off.


Yep, that is when I knew he was fake. It sort of made an entire episode worse for me, since I kept waiting for that revelation to come out... I also hate dream/hallucinations sequencies, so this wasn't my favorite episode .

I found that all the humor (mostly from Sawer) was a bit odd. Not that I didn't like it (it was funny), but the volume of it seemed out of place, since they have never done it to this extend. But as a sitcom, I loved this episode .


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

markz said:


> I also think that Henry is trying to get Locke & company to NOT push the button by convincing them that he didn't push the button.


I thought that too, but now I'm not so sure.... Clearly Henry knew what would happen if the button wasn't pushed - at least as far as the hieroglyphics popping up were concerned. So either he didn't push it and he was being truthful (a BIG assumption for this character), or the others were involved with the hatch before, and didn't push it, OR they were involved in creating the hatch.

Regarding what happens - either nothing happens (as he described) or "something bad" happens. But as he's trapped in the hatch - why would he want them not to push it and have something bad happen in the hatch? He clearly does not want to die. So he may be telling the truth.

The other option is that something potentially undesirable happens, but the hatch itself is not affected. And although it may be generally undesirable, it may help Henry out of whatever trouble he's in. Hmmmm....


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

markz said:


> I believe Henry pussed the button because...


You are correct. 
People here should listen to the podcasts, that way we wouldn't have to listen to the Purgatory, St Elsewhere theories that keep popping up.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Big_Daddy said:


> So Ecko's building something, huh? How much do you want to bet it's a church?


Didn't the previews last week that showed scenes from 'upcoming' episodes (not just the next week) show...



Spoiler



the castaways building another raft?


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

smak said:


> To tell you the truth, I think the writer's are sitting back on their duffs and laughing at people who think that it's a real possibility that the whole show is just Hurley in the mental institution imagining everything.


I think the writers are laughing their asses off at people who talk as if the phrase "real possibility" is meaningful in connection with a show that is the product of the writers' imaginations. 

In other words, this episode was a big reminder that _it's just a show._


----------



## reggers (Jul 27, 2002)

emandbri said:


> I don't remember this, do you remember more details?
> 
> I liked the episode, I knew Dave wasn't real right way you could see it in Hurely's eyes. I love the actor that played Dave, did anyone else watch the sitcom he was in with Jennifer Grey? It wasn't on long but I thought it was funny.
> 
> Emily


Yes - it was a funny show - too bad it didn't last it was called "It's Like, You Know..."


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

-Knock Knock
-Who's there?
-Hey man it's me Dave open up
...
-Knock Knock
-Who's there?
-Comeon man it's Dave open up, I think the cops saw me
-Dave?
-Yeah man open up
-Dave's not here man


----------



## RunnerFL (May 10, 2005)

bdowell said:


> No. Comment.
> 
> Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?
> 
> Bleh.


I totally disagree...

There have been way too many stories that don't involve Hurley for it to even be close to a possibility that it's in his head.

If it's in his head explain the back stories...

This is by no means their "out" for the series.


----------



## emandbri (Jul 5, 2004)

Donbadabon said:
 

> You are correct.
> People here should listen to the podcasts, that way we wouldn't have to listen to the Purgatory, St Elsewhere theories that keep popping up.


Thanks!

I didn't know there was a podcast, maybe this will help that empty feeling I'm having without my battlestar galactica podcasts!

Emily


----------



## snifred (Sep 29, 2005)

Anybody catch Dave's line to Hurley right before he jumped? "See you in another life." Exactly what Desmond said to Jack in the stadium, and also what he said right before running away from the hatch. Hurley wasn't there for those two scenes, so why would his imaginary friend say the same thing? 

I think the Dave on the island is different from the imaginary Dave in the institution. Desmond's story about a race around the world could be a lie for all we know, and his real "job" is on the island. He pretended not to know Jack right away, and used the same story to be consistent. But he was involved in getting Jack to the island for whatever reason they are there. Someone at the institution was working behind the scenes to have Hurley conjure up "Dave." Maybe there really was a Dave at the institution, he was nice to Hurley when no one else was, and then he left to go back to the island. Hurley kept Dave as his imaginary friend so he wouldn't be lonely. Then the Dave on the island is the real Dave, which is why he used Desmond's line. 

They all have someone who is their connection to the island from their previous lives, and those people are all part of the Dharma group.


----------



## SoldOnTivoToo (Feb 28, 2005)

Or maybe all of them have been enrolled in an Hanso experiment where their bodies are asleep (or in a coma) somewhere and they share the same delusion controlled and monitored by outsiders. Would also work with Henry's obsession about not telling anything because his boss will know, even though he's shacked up in a gun closet.

I was definitely not disappointed with this episode. I did not see Dave as a made up character although I did recognize him right away from Sex and the City.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

yaddayaddayadda said:


> Me
> 
> I actually thought it was a GREAT episode. Really just a tease to the fans of the show and various conspiracy theorists...
> 
> ...


Hurley has often been the vehicle through which the writers address the internet speculation of the fan base.


Hurley's conversation with Arzt last season about how everything focuses on about a dozen people while there are 40+ castaways.
Hurley and Libby, in a previous episode, commenting on how the washer and dryer in the hatch were modern while everything else in the hatch dated to the 70's.
Hurley's comment to Sayid about a radio transmission: *Sayid:* It could be coming from anywhere. *Hurley:* Or any time. [long cheeky pause] Just kiddin' dude!
etc. etc.

When speculation is dead wrong (IMHO, of course), it is usually Hurley who is the vehicle for making fun of the "dead wrong" speculation on the part of the fans. Examples include the "Or any time" comment and the notion that the whole thing is in Hurley's (or anyone's) imagination. (I agree with posters who've pointed out, if it's all in Hurley's (or anyone's) imagination, what's with all the flashbacks on multiple characters?!)

Some other comments:

I'm pretty sure Cynthia Watros is naturally a blond so "roots growing out" would have to be simulated.

Who's to say Libby didn't have naturally blond hair dyed brown when she was committed to the asylum?

I suspected that Dave was imaginary, but wasn't sure until the therapist showed Hurley the photo. In most shows it would be painfully obvious. On Lost, I don't take anything for granted! 

Who the heck is the "him" that the other's are all terrified of?

Possibilities:


*Alvar Hanso:* Based on his bio on the Hanso Foundation web site, he'd be well into his 90's or even over 100 years old. However, one of the Hanso Foundation projects (from the web site) was the "Life Extension Project", so who knows!? 
*Gerald DeGroot:* The orientation film suggested that he is the "technical director" of the Dharma Project. However, the "technical director" may have to answer to a higher up bean-counter (like Alvar Hanso or some right-hand-man of his). So, if the mysterious "him" is not DeGroot, I still suspect Zeke may be DeGroot, with or without the fake beard.
*Dr. Candle?:* What's his role in the whole thing? Since the writers/directors went out of their way to show us his prosthetic arm, I strongly suspect we'll meet him "in person" some day. Is he Hanso's "right hand man" that I allude to above?

It's starting to look more and more like at least some of the "others" are unwilling captives and participants in all this. Clearly Alex fits into this category.

Perhaps _almost all of the others_ crashed on the island in planes or ships and were captured by Dharma people for some nefarious purpose (like Walt, Alex, and the tailie children who were taken).

Finally. I think fake-Henry pushed the button. He's playing with Locke, trying to trick him into not pushing the button. Fake-Henry knows a lot about the hatch he's not telling (yet).


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

emandbri said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I didn't know there was a podcast, maybe this will help that empty feeling I'm having without my battlestar galactica podcasts!
> 
> Emily


The Offical Lost Podcast is fantastic. They will go into some details that aren't even caught here on TCF. Definately worth a listen.

The Official Lost Podcast


----------



## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

I thought it was interesting that Hurley was sitting in front of a nice picture of a tropical island in the doctors office.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


Dunno when 5 minutes was, but I figured it out about 5 seconds into the first mental ward scene with Dave in it.


----------



## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

bdowell said:


> No. Comment.
> 
> Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?
> 
> Bleh.


Not at all. The whole point of Hurley making up Dave in his mind is to avoid reality, specifically his eating disorder. Like any person with a disease that is not being treated, the disease escalates or gets worse. Hurely brings Dave back into his life to try and convince himself to end his own life. He tries to convince himself that this is all in his mind, trying to avoid reality. If anything, I think this validates the fact that they really are on this island and it's not just somebody's imagination.


----------



## mask2343 (Jan 6, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> [*]*Gerald DeGroot:* The orientation film suggested that he is the "technical director" of the Dharma Project. However, the "technical director" may have to answer to a higher up bean-counter (like Alvar Hanso or some right-hand-man of his). So, if the mysterious "him" is not DeGroot, I still suspect Zeke may be DeGroot, with or without the fake beard.


Didn't Ethan call "Zeke" by his real name in the Claire epidsode? And it wansn't DeGroot's name?


----------



## voripteth (Apr 9, 2003)

Once we got done watching the episode we rewound to see if Dave interacted with anyone else. For the most part he didn't but there was one exception!

When the nurse bring Hugo's medicine she looks at the numbers guy, Hugo and then Dave! Perhaps it was an acting mistake but she definitely looked at Dave.


----------



## glumlord (Oct 27, 2003)

I cant remember the exact words of the conversation but I thought they were important.

Henry Gale was describing what happened after he didn't hit the button.

He said it sounded like a huge magnet, I thought it was a strange thing to say especially because of the magnetism research that the foundation did, and also because of the obvious magnetic effects when jack first discovered hatch/tunnel area.

Do you think the magnet perhaps was involved in the release of the food/drop?

Also we know he's an other so either he's telling truth that he didn't tell button or the others definately have some inside knowledge of hatch


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

mask2343 said:


> Didn't Ethan call "Zeke" by his real name in the Claire epidsode? And it wansn't DeGroot's name?


He never called him by name in any of the conversations we heard.

I watched several times, trying to identify him (Zeke). There was no positive ID or name mentioned in their conversations, and few clues to his identity.

If Ethan had given him a name, we wouldn't all still be calling him "Zeke" or "Mr. Friendly!" 

All we know from that episode about Zeke is:


The beard's fake.
Zeke appears to be Ethan's "boss" in the structure of the "others", but not the top boss.
Zeke and Ethan are terrified of a mysterious "him" as is fake-Henry.

FWIW: In the official show credits, Zeke is credited as "bearded man" in the first two shows in which he appears, and as "Mr. Friendly" in "Maternity Leave."


----------



## Rob Helmerichs (Oct 17, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> Perhaps _almost all of the others_ crashed on the island in planes or ships and were captured by Dharma people for some nefarious purpose (like Walt, Alex, and the tailie children who were taken).


Yeah, it seems bizarre to me that people say "So-and-so can't be an Other, because he crashed on the island." As far as I'm concerned, anybody could be or become an Other (Charlie?).

The Dave business strikes me as being potentially as brilliant as the Buffy episode that it seems borrowed from. In that case, they establish the possibility that the whole series is just a hallucination in Buffy's mind. They never come back to it, so we are free to accept the series on its own term, and if we can't, then accept it as a crazy girl's fantasy. On the other hand, the Buffy thing was more ambiguous--I got the distinct impression that with Dave, in the end they weren't trying to be ambiguous.

And did they ever say that if they don't enter the numbers, something BAD will happen? It has certainly been inferred, but I'm not sure it's ever been implied, or fklat-out said. Maybe somehting _wonderful_ will happen!


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

MickeS said:


> I didn't see the twist about Dave not being real coming at all. Why would I have suspected that, were there any previous allusions to it?
> 
> This was an awesome episode. The final scene gave me goosebumps.
> 
> I don't think this is all in Hurley's head, but it was cool that the writers brought it up.


I saw it immediately. What tipped me off was the way Hurley acted when he saw him at the food. He didn't point and ask anyone who that was (at first I thought he was an other). Instead, he just ran after him without saying anything to anybody. And then the way everyone ignored Dave while they were playing basketball. I knew we would see the picture later and there would be no one there.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I don't recall any mention of her being a patient in a mental hospital in previous episodes. Please elaborate for those of us who apparently can't remember everything.


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

I thought it was pretty much a given from the start that Dave wasn't real. As soon as Hurley walked onto the basketball court someone threw him the ball right over Dave's head _as if he wasn't there..._ To me the tension came more from the possibility that he _might_ be real.

That's why the real shocker to me would have been if the doc passed Hurley the picture and Dave _was_ in the picture.

*Un-LOST-related:* I've never been to one of those institutions, but why is it that the writers always portray institutionalized people as spending the entire day in PJs and bath robes? I'm not a therapist, but if the goal is for some of them to re-enter the "real world," wouldn't you want them to dress as normally as possible for their day?


----------



## dtle (Dec 12, 2001)

I was hoping that Sayid and Ana Lucia were playing their own version of good cop / bad cop. But there was no indication of it, so Sayid is getting pretty crazy now.


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


My wife did... But I didn't agree with her. They talked about Dave on the podcast and talking about the actor and stuff I guess made him too real for me. I didn't think he was fake. WOW did she razz we when they showed he was fake.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Do we know that sayid would have killed him? I mean come on, we've all seen 24, we know that shooting people in the shoulder is just good interrogation technique.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

jkeegan said:


> Bruce Davison played George Orr in The Lathe of Heaven, which seemed _almost_ relevant/similar to Hurley's belief that this was all in his head, but maybe more relevant to Walt?


Thank you - I knew he looked familiar, and I just watched Lathe a couple years ago.

I thought this was a great episode. All the wasting of food annoyed me as well, but the show has always been a bit cavalier about how 40+ people are staying fed.

I thought Sayid and A_L were playing good cop/bad cop with "Gale," but it really looked like he would have shot Gale for real if she hadn't intervened.

I'm thinking that Libby saw Hurley win the money on TV and remembered him from her stay in the mental hospital. And now that they are stranded together, she is pretending to like him to ensure a payday in case they get rescued. The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

TAsunder said:


> I don't recall any mention of her being a patient in a mental hospital in previous episodes. Please elaborate for those of us who apparently can't remember everything.


In an earlier episode (I think it was the scene where they were doing laundry together and commented that the washer and dryer were too modern) Hurley says to Libby, "Do I know you from somewhere?"

This led some to speculate that she may have been a patient at the mental hospital.

However, she claims to be a clinical psychologist, so I thought, at the time, that it was *more likely* that she had been a *therapist* there!

So, I was caught by surprise that she was a *patient!*

So, is she really a clinical psychologist, or is she lying about that?

It's possible for a clinical psychologist to succumb to a mental disorder that requires them to be a mental patient, of course...


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

TAsunder said:


> I don't recall any mention of her being a patient in a mental hospital in previous episodes. Please elaborate for those of us who apparently can't remember everything.


I think it was just that Hurley kept saying that he remembered her from somewhere


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

ScottE22 said:


> I thought it was pretty much a given from the start that Dave wasn't real. As soon as Hurley walked onto the basketball court someone threw him the ball right over Dave's head _as if he wasn't there..._ To me the tension came more from the possibility that he _might_ be real.


I had this crazy idea that maybe Dave is, in fact, real. That Dave and the doctor are working for dahrma and it was a plot to make Hurley think he's really crazy. (The popular the whole thing is a psycholgy experiment) Because for an imaginary friend, he sure was abusive! What if the Doc really photoshoped dave out of the picture...just like dave suggested. When Dave escapes from the asylum, he joins the others awaiting the round up of all these survivors. So Dave jumps off the cliff...but what if, as some have speculated, there is an underwater hatch? And Libby didn't see Dave, but she's obviously crazy...maybe she was too busy focusing on Hurley to notice anyone else there anyway.

And as far as making a big deal of Hurley wasting all that food...that's just crazy talk. They're on a TROPICAL island. There's no danger of them running out of food any time soon. And I think I would choose fruit and mango over ranch dressing and mayo any day. I don't think anyone was in danger of starving to death because Hurley dumped all his condiments and some crackers. They've got an expert fisherman (Jin) and a self-proclaimed expert hunter (locke) so between the two of them I just don't think anyone is in danger of starving to death. And honestly, if I were Hurley, I would have done the same thing. Its just like what Charlie had to do with his drug stash.


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

KRS said:


> I'm thinking that Libby saw Hurley win the money on TV and remembered him from her stay in the mental hospital. And now that they are stranded together, she is pretending to like him to ensure a payday in case they get rescued.  The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.


I like this theory.

And I think if this theory is true, then it was no coincedence that she was on the flight. I can't imagine two people who spent time in an institutution somewhere just happened to be coming back from Australia on exactly the same flight. Of course stranger things have happened!


----------



## BeanMeScot (Apr 17, 2002)

Imaginary figures seem to be important in the Lost world. First we have Jack's Dad, then Kate's horse and now Hurley's patient buddy. That's why I think Dave was real to the extent that he can be real on the island. Kate was able to touch and pet the horse. Of course, Sawyer was able to see the horse as well and it doesn't seem anyone else was able to see Dave or Jack's dad.


----------



## ScottE22 (Sep 19, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> ...
> So, is she really a clinical psychologist, or is she lying about that?
> ...


Well - didn't she help Claire with some regression therapy in "Maternity Leave"? I don't think just anyone can do that so she must have some formal psychological training. Maybe she just "LOST it"  and ended up in the asylum.


----------



## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

ScottE22 said:


> Well - didn't she help Claire with some regression therapy in "Maternity Leave"? I don't think just anyone can do that so she must have some formal psychological training. Maybe she just "LOST it"  and ended up in the asylum.


Maybe she's experiencing something like Locke.  Lock was paralyzed, but now can walk. Libby was a mental patient, now she has the ability to diagnose and treat disorders.


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

Big_Daddy said:


> So Ecko's building something, huh? How much do you want to bet it's a church?


I am pretty sure it is. Wasn't he marking all the trees with a cross? Or was it an X? I can't remember.


----------



## reggers (Jul 27, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> ...
> 
> And as far as making a big deal of Hurley wasting all that food...that's just crazy talk. They're on a TROPICAL island. There's no danger of them running out of food any time soon. And I think I would choose fruit and mango over ranch dressing and mayo any day. I don't think anyone was in danger of starving to death because Hurley dumped all his condiments and some crackers. They've got an expert fisherman (Jin) and a self-proclaimed expert hunter (locke) so between the two of them I just don't think anyone is in danger of starving to death. And honestly, if I were Hurley, I would have done the same thing. Its just like what Charlie had to do with his drug stash.


But if you're stuck on an island for 50 some odd days with 40 some odd people...fruit , mangos, etc would just get old after a bit....it's always good to have something different - especially it looked like some of the foods were non-perishables.

(I can't believe I just put that down as a response - gosh do we take this stuff too seriously or what.)


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

EMoMoney said:


> Maybe she's experiencing something like Locke. Lock was paralyzed, but now can walk. Libby was a mental patient, now she has the ability to diagnose and treat disorders.


I was thinking this too. Several of the "losties" are not what they seem to the other losties!


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

reggers said:


> But if you're stuck on an island for 50 some odd days with 40 some odd people...fruit , mangos, etc would just get old after a bit....it's always good to have something different - especially it looked like some of the foods were non-perishables.
> 
> (I can't believe I just put that down as a response - gosh do we take this stuff too seriously or what.)


All of it may get old...even the ranch dressing. My point was more directed towards the comment someone made about the person that could have died because hurley dumped his stash. Fish and mangos may get old after a while but it WILL keep you alive. And in the end I think fish and magos would sustain you more than ranch dressing.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I absolutely LOVED this episode.

I did think it was weird when "Henry" made his comment about it "sounding like a big magnet"....what does that mean? What the heck does a big magnet sound like?


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

I like the idea someone said about how the magnet would be used to pull down the supply drop, help direct it in 

(as well as planes and hot air ballons)


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I do have to wonder why Jack & Crew would just have left those supplies out there after they had found them that night. Wouldn't they know that it would cause a "riot"?


----------



## goMO (Dec 29, 2004)

bdowell said:


> No. Comment.
> 
> Actually, I think tonite's show was a poke in the eye at all of the viewers. Seriously, they've given an out for the entire show now. It's all in Hurley's mind and nothing exists. Great, then why bother watching a fictional show about a fictional place that is all in the mind of a delusional over-eater?
> 
> Bleh.


uh, okay... so you'd rather watch it because its real??!!!


----------



## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> I had this crazy idea that maybe Dave is, in fact, real. That Dave and the doctor are working for dahrma and it was a plot to make Hurley think he's really crazy. (The popular the whole thing is a psycholgy experiment) Because for an imaginary friend, he sure was abusive! What if the Doc really photoshoped dave out of the picture...just like dave suggested.


They showed us actual video at the end of the epsiode, where Hugo put his arm around an empty chair as the Doc was taking his picture.

So that proves Dave was not there.


----------



## Jeeters (Feb 25, 2003)

ScottE22 said:


> Well - didn't she help Claire with some regression therapy in "Maternity Leave"? I don't think just anyone can do that so she must have some formal psychological training. Maybe she just "LOST it"  and ended up in the asylum.


She may bbe saying she's a clinical psychologist because she can easily fake it... she's perhaps spent so much time in getting therapy herself, that she knows how to imitate and talk like her doctors.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

KRS said:


> Thank you - I knew /Bruce Davison/ looked familiar, and I just watched Lathe a couple years ago.


Of course, Bruce Davison has been in tons of stuff, so it'd be hard to find him unfamiliar at this point. His biggest role in terms of exposure is probably as the anti-mutant senator in "X-Men".


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

KRS said:


> Thank you - I knew he looked familiar, and I just watched Lathe a couple years ago.


The first thing I remembered him as was the Senator (or whatever) in X-Men.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Jeeters said:


> She may bbe saying she's a clinical psychologist because she can easily fake it... she's perhaps spent so much time in getting therapy herself, that she knows how to imitate and talk like her doctors.


I was thinking about this movie:


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

bruinfan said:


> I absolutely cannot wait to see how they piss off all the haters in the season finale!!!  Awesome episode. :up:


LOL!


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Donbadabon said:


> You are xxxxx.
> People here should listen to the podcasts, that way we wouldn't have to listen to the xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxxx theories that keep popping up.


...and you should spoiler tag stuff like that, because not every one of us wants to hear stuff from the podcasts.


----------



## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

unicorngoddess said:


> And as far as making a big deal of Hurley wasting all that food...that's just crazy talk. They're on a TROPICAL island. There's no danger of them running out of food any time soon. And I think I would choose fruit and mango over ranch dressing and mayo any day. I don't think anyone was in danger of starving to death because Hurley dumped all his condiments and some crackers. They've got an expert fisherman (Jin) and a self-proclaimed expert hunter (locke) so between the two of them I just don't think anyone is in danger of starving to death. And honestly, if I were Hurley, I would have done the same thing. Its just like what Charlie had to do with his drug stash.


I guess you are not a big Survivor fan... Even with producers slipping them food through the reward challenges, I have seen those people turn into walking skeletons in a little more than a month! And most of those Survivor seasons were set in the "TROPICAL island" setting!


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> I was thinking about this movie:


Hehe, good call. Love this movie!!


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

Has anyone considered that despite Mr. Friendly's beard being fake, there is another Other with a beard that Fake Gale is referring to as "nothing." Of course Mr. Friendly still refers to and perhaps fears "him," but we don't know how high up on the food chain Fake Gale is. The "him" that each character refers to is not necessarily the same guy.


----------



## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

ScottE22 said:


> I thought it was pretty much a given from the start that Dave wasn't real. As soon as Hurley walked onto the basketball court someone threw him the ball right over Dave's head _as if he wasn't there..._ To me the tension came more from the possibility that he _might_ be real.
> 
> That's why the real shocker to me would have been if the doc passed Hurley the picture and Dave _was_ in the picture.


I agree. THAT would have been a great closing scene with Doc showing Hurley the pic including Dave AND Libby sitting there on her meds.

All-in-all a decent episode with the best stuff being the fight with Sawyer with Hurley shouting out all his hated nicknames, Henry's continued mindgames (to us a more polite term) with Locke regarding pushing the hatch button and the ending with Libby on meds.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> I like the idea someone said about how the magnet would be used to pull down the supply drop, help direct it in
> 
> (as well as planes and hot air ballons)


The magnet could also be used to hold the blast doors up.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Carlucci said:


> Was the final scene Libby's flashback, or nobody's in particular?
> 
> If nobody's, Is this the first time that the writers have shown us a segment from the past that was NOT someone's flashback?
> 
> This could be important later if they ever try the old "these are implanted memories" trick.


I don't think it's ever been conclusively established that the flashbacks are memories of the Losties. I've never considered them to be "memory" flashbacks but rather "story" flashbacks, meaning that they're simply showing us what happened in each character's previous life, but not necessarily from that person's memory. This would explain why we see stuff in the flashbacks that the character's couldn't/wouldn't have known, like Sawyer being dragged through the police station.


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## EMoMoney (Oct 30, 2001)

Another question I thought of. What will happen when Hurley actually remembers where he's seen Libby before?


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## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

Is the Polaroid the same as the reality



















Note the polaroid looks like night and there is no man in the background hmmm...


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

If the flashbacks are not from a particular character's perspective then we would not have seen Dave ever.

I have no considered there being two men with beards because this is not Frasier and no writer would introduce a mistaken identity thread into dialogue like that, I would hope. If there were two men with beards I doubt fake-Henry would have assumed it was one or the other.


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

xuxa said:


> Is the Polaroid the same as the reality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the celery plate is rotated...


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

xuxa said:


>


and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the same


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

KRS said:


> I'm thinking that Libby saw Hurley win the money on TV and remembered him from her stay in the mental hospital. And now that they are stranded together, she is pretending to like him to ensure a payday in case they get rescued. The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.


Me too.


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## xuxa (Oct 8, 2001)

Redux said:


> Basically three possibiliities: 1. It's all a crapshoot from script to script, 2. There's _kinda_ a roadmap, with much clarity in basic direction and a notion of the destination, but with much undefined and plenty of flexibility to adapt to new ideas and audience feedback as we go along, 3. It's all predetermined and basically set in concrete.
> 
> As a viewer, do we care? And to the extent that I _do_ care, I prefer 1 or 2 over 3. If I'm entertained, I don't care what the writers' motives or opinions of my intelligence are. Let them have fun with us. But I think the fact is we're all in on the joke.


#2 is correct as the writers have specifically said this is how they write it and that what we see is reality and not a character's imagination.


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

xuxa said:


> Is the Polaroid the same as the reality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also the guy sitting in front of the window in the background isn't in the polaroid either...


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

TAsunder said:


> If the flashbacks are not from a particular character's perspective then we would not have seen Dave ever.
> 
> I have no considered there being two men with beards because this is not Frasier and no writer would introduce a mistaken identity thread into dialogue like that, I would hope. If there were two men with beards I doubt fake-Henry would have assumed it was one or the other.


The flashbacks are shown for the purpose of telling the story. If it serves that purpose to show something from a specific character's perspective, they do so. If it serves the story better to show something from more of a third-person perspective, they do that. I don't think we're supposed to take anything from the particular perspective of any of the flashbacks, but rather we're simply supposed to learn more about each character's background prior to getting on Flight 815.


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## DVDerek (Sep 30, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the same


Hurley being further away from the table is easily explained. The original capture (the top picture) was taken slightly BEFORE the picture was snapped. If you'll remember, Dave was making a sort of "Rock-On" gesture with his hands when the picture was taken and Hurley sorta turned to look at him for a second. This would have taken him further from the table, I think.

Perhaps the person in the back who is missing is another one of Hurley's imaginary friends. Hurley tells Libby he has "an imaginary friend" but maybe he had more.

I can't explain why the medicine cup is in a different location. Okay, well I can, actually. They shot the scene with Dave the Actor. Dave got up, then they shot the picture. Stuff moved. It was sloppy. I really think that's what this is. They let it slide to drive people like us nuts.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

xuxa said:


> Is the Polaroid the same as the reality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I feel sorry for the continuity people on this show.

No TV show in history has ever been analyzed down to the last screen pixel like "Lost" is!


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

devdogaz said:


> I don't think it's ever been conclusively established that the flashbacks are memories of the Losties. I've never considered them to be "memory" flashbacks but rather "story" flashbacks, meaning that they're simply showing us what happened in each character's previous life, but not necessarily from that person's memory. This would explain why we see stuff in the flashbacks that the character's couldn't/wouldn't have known, like Sawyer being dragged through the police station.


That's how I see it too. If it were the character's memory, then we wouldn't see the actual character in the flashback. We'd see everything through their eyes.


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## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

bruinfan said:


> and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the same


Actually one picture is of Hurley and the other is of the guy that hung out in the diner on "Becker".


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## Rojma (May 18, 2002)

DVDerek said:


> Hurley being further away from the table is easily explained. The original capture (the top picture) was taken slightly BEFORE the picture was snapped. If you'll remember, Dave was making a sort of "Rock-On" gesture with his hands when the picture was taken and Hurley sorta turned to look at him for a second. This would have taken him further from the table, I think.
> 
> Perhaps the person in the back who is missing is another one of Hurley's imaginary friends. Hurley tells Libby he has "an imaginary friend" but maybe he had more.
> 
> I can't explain why the medicine cup is in a different location. Okay, well I can, actually. They shot the scene with Dave the Actor. Dave got up, then they shot the picture. Stuff moved. It was sloppy. I really think that's what this is. They let it slide to drive people like us nuts.


The "differences" between the photo and the video shot has a lot to do with photography.

First off, there is a guy in the background. Hurleys head is partially obscuring him and he is very dark but you can make him out.

Second, the angle, lens type, and lighting of the photo can greatly affect how two different photos look of the same exact shot at the same exact moment.

As an example, if someone shot a photo of a subject at the same exact time as you did with the same exact make and model camera/lens but they were 20 feet back and zoomed in on them so they were the same "size" as in your picture, the two photos would be drastically different. I searched the Net for an example but could not find one (I have a few photo books that show the difference).

With that said, the two "pictures" were taken by two drastically different devices at different heights and angles (a high end HD (or possibly film) video camera vs a low end (and crappy) Polaroid still camera) . This would result in some of the anomalies that people are describing.

For the person saying it was day vs night in the pictures, this is just the result of the low end Polaroid camera not being able to capture enough light and take good indoor pictures. This is why the flash is used - to get enough light to make the subject visible.

Of course the final thing is that obviously in real life the two pictures were taken at different points in time after an actor had moved out of the picture. There are going to be slightly different things that naturally appear - items slightly moved and actors not quite positioned the same. I guess they could of used digital special effects to make everything "match" but was it really worth the cost and effort???? I guess the producers should know that the fans are going to look at everything and scrutinize every little detail, but in this instance I think some people are reading way too much into the "differences" in the two photos.


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## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Here is the reason why the 2 pics are different

They were taken at 2 different times, one w/ dave, and one w/o dave. They didn't do one shot and photoshop dave out, they just did 2 takes or more of it. Not a big deal, let it go.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

unicorngoddess said:


> xuxa said:
> 
> 
> > Is the Polaroid the same as the reality
> ...


And did you see that in the picture, there is no man in a chair in front of the window.


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## cheesesteak (Jul 24, 2003)

I thought this episode was way below average. Hurley destroying his cache of food was stupid. There are 40 other people on that island who would have enjoyed what was in theose containers. If Dave is imaginary, why can he throw coconuts at Hurley that connect and hurt on impact? I lost interest in the flashbacks once it became blatanly clear that Dave was all in Hurley's mind. 

I thought the concept of this episode was stolen from the Lost episode where Jack saw his father on the island.

We now have two instances of the counter going to zero and the red heiroglyphic symbols appearing and nothing happening when doom was prophesized. I know the writers are going to pull something out of their asses to explain it, but that's exactly what it's going to seem like to me: the writers pulling "brilliant" explanations out of their asses.

And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

Rob Helmerichs said:


> The Dave business strikes me as being potentially as brilliant as the Buffy episode that it seems borrowed from. In that case, they establish the possibility that the whole series is just a hallucination in Buffy's mind. They never come back to it, so we are free to accept the series on its own term, and if we can't, then accept it as a crazy girl's fantasy. On the other hand, the Buffy thing was more ambiguous--I got the distinct impression that with Dave, in the end they weren't trying to be ambiguous.


Agreed. "Normal Again" (the aptly described as brilliant _Buffy_ episode yo mentioned) popped into my head almost immediatlely once I figured out what was going on with Hurley. And you're right - the ending of "Dave" was far less ambiguous than the ending of "Normal Again", which I still don't know what to make of.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Rojma said:


> The "differences" between the photo and the video shot has a lot to do with photography.
> 
> As an example, if someone shot a photo of a subject at the same exact time as you did with the same exact make and model camera/lens but they were 20 feet back and zoomed in on them so they were the same "size" as in your picture, the two photos would be drastically different. I searched the Net for an example but could not find one (I have a few photo books that show the difference).
> 
> Of course the final thing is that obviously in real life the two pictures were taken at different points in time after an actor had moved out of the picture. There are going to be slightly different things that naturally appear - items slightly moved and actors not quite positioned the same. I guess they could of used digital special effects to make everything "match" but was it really worth the cost and effort???? I guess the producers should know that the fans are going to look at everything and scrutinize every little detail, but in this instance I think some people are reading way too much into the "differences" in the two photos.


I agree that the difference is probably unintentional, but I am attaching 2 pictures I took at Disney that demonstrate the effect you are talking about. I am on the same line, the only difference is the distance/zoom level. Another demo of this is the scene in Jaws where Schieder is on the beach and they zoom in as he realizes the Kintner boy has been chomped.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

bruinfan said:


> and Hurley is further away from the table and the robes aren't arranged the same


Ok but jokes about our own overanalysis aside, what are people suggesting - that the doctor faked the picture by having Hurley pose for TWO pictures, one where there's a Dave there, and another one later at night where he isn't, and then Hurley forgets the second one somehow? Clearly that was the production team's best quick effort to create the same photo but without Dave there.

Plus, again, it doesn't matter - the last scene clearly shows Dave _is_ imaginary, and shows the doc taking _that_ picture (with Libby witnessing it).


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

I'm guessing that there really is no huge need for a big tub of mayo, some corn chips, and potato chips. If hurley had destroyed mostly healty foods that might be different.


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## Greg K. (Jun 28, 2005)

actually, not just the man it looks like the entire table behind him isn't there in the polaroid. You can't see below the window in the video shot.

But it's almost certainly different just because it wasn't important enough to make it match perfectly. (I say "almost" because this is, after all, Lost)


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Seriously, if they had digitally erased dave then people would be saying that it IS digitally erased because of X, Y, Z. There was no way for them to take the exact same picture, one with dave, one without, with zero differences otherwise.


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

cheesesteak said:


> If Dave is imaginary, why can he throw coconuts at Hurley that connect and hurt on impact?
> 
> I thought the concept of this episode was stolen from the Lost episode where Jack saw his father on the island.
> 
> ...


No one threw anything at Hurley and there was no connect and hurt... it was Hurley's imagination.

Jack seeing his father was completely different. Jack isn't mentally ill and Jack's father is dead (recently). Jack also didn't interact with his "father". Hurley is creating a reality in his mind. Jack was halucinating (whether due to mystical forces, stress, whatever).

We do not hae two instances of teh counter going to zero. Last time Locke caught it *just in time*. And this time, Henry could easily be lying.

Sure there's a way the "hot chick" hooks up with Hurley... cause she's crazy, cause she's using him, cause she's an other, etc.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> I feel sorry for the continuity people on this show.
> 
> No TV show in history has ever been analyzed down to the last screen pixel like "Lost" is!


You've obviously never watched an episode of Star Trek!


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

I was just commenting on the pic.
I don't think it's anything.


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

cwoody222 said:


> Sure there's a way the "hot chick" hooks up with Hurley... cause she's crazy, cause she's using him, cause she's an other, etc.


Obviously, it's cuz he's rich


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Why feel sorry for them? They brought it on themselves in the way they structure the story. If they didn't give us so little details, we wouldn't be grasping onto them. If they didn't make the details cryptic, that might help too. Sorry, but putting up red hieroglyphics instead of a real revelation is going to make us analyze them.


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## UBUBUB (Dec 1, 2005)

This episode reminds me of the Simpsons episode several years back where Homer and Bart go to the Super Bowl. That entire episode was written as an homage to the online Simpson community, even including the expressions "Bumble Bee Man" and "Comic Book Guy" as were coined on the boards. I honestly think this episode was a wink and a shout out to all of us who take this show just a . . . little . . . too . . . seriously.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

cheesesteak said:


> And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.


I'm mystified at all the people saying it's "impossible" for a hot chick to be interested in an overweight guy.

I see hot chicks on dates with or married to ugly dudes _all the stinkin' time_ in real life.

Not everyone, male or female, is that superfluous, shallow, and crass.

As I mentioned in another thread on this board within the week: A friend of mine has a name for the phenomenon of a hot babe being interested in an ugly guy: "Larry Fine Syndrome." He came up with it after seeing a mega-uberhot babe on the arm of a guy who looked like Larry Fine (Larry from the Three Stooges).


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## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> As I mentioned in another thread on this board within the week: A friend of mine has a name for the phenomenon of a hot babe being interested in an ugly guy: "Larry Fine Syndrome." He came up with it after seeing a mega-uberhot babe on the arm of a guy who looked like Larry Fine (Larry from the Three Stooges).


Obviously, it's because he's rich


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Thank god not everyone is superfluous, or nothing would ever get done.


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## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

Guindalf said:


> You've obviously never watched an episode of Star Trek!


Star Trek crossed my mind. But, in it's day there weren't internet discussion boards with readily available screen grabs on the net that people could use to pick apart every continuity flaw.

No one even had a VCR! There was only one's memory to go by to spot the continuity flaws, and then you had to wait for the summer re-runs for confirmation. (Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)

I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC!


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

Fish Man said:


> (Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)


30, 26 & 24 actually (seasons 1, 2 & 3 of TOS, respectively)


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> No one even had a VCR! There was only one's memory to go by to spot the continuity flaws, and then you had to wait for the summer re-runs for confirmation. (Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)
> 
> I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC!


Actually, Season 1 had 28 production episodes and the second pilot.
Season 2 had 26 episodes and Season 3 had 24 episodes.


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## Lee L (Oct 1, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> Star Trek crossed my mind. But, in it's day there weren't internet discussion boards with readily available screen grabs on the net that people could use to pick apart every continuity flaw.
> 
> No one even had a VCR! There was only one's memory to go by to spot the continuity flaws, and then you had to wait for the summer re-runs for confirmation. (Back then there were about 36 episodes per season, not 24 like now.)
> 
> I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC!


I know. Imagine if Twin Peaks came out now!!


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## bigcb37 (Jun 14, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> I'm mystified at all the people saying it's "impossible" for a hot chick to be interested in an overweight guy.
> 
> I see hot chicks on dates with or married to ugly dudes _all the stinkin' time_ in real life.


If TV has taught me anything, it's that fat ugly guys are married to hot wives all the time...and typically hilarity ensues.


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

Fish Man said:


> I'm an old enough geezer that I watched ST:TOS in it's first run on NBC!


I watched it in the UK when it was first shown at 6:00pm on BBC2! I was too young to pick it apart until much later though.

Anyway, back to the topic....

I'm convinced that the writers have a framework in which they work and they can mould it any way they need to in order to misdirect where necessary. It wouldn't surprise me if they have a team whose job it is to scour the message boards for theories so they can add something to a later show to cast doubt on it!

The biggest problem with this show is that they CAN'T reveal what's actually behind it all without ending the show! I have a fear that it'll get cancelled somewhere down the line without a lot of questions being answered and we'll all be left hanging!

As for Hurley dreaming it all, I'd rather be in a dream where I had a hot chick for a girlfriend than being fat and lonely in real life!

(for the record, I AM fat, but not lonely thanks to a fantastic wife who just called me at the office for no other reason than to tell me she loves me!).


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

cwoody222 said:


> 30, 26 & 24 actually (seasons 1, 2 & 3 of TOS, respectively)


28 regular production episodes for Season 1 plus the second pilot = 29.
The Cage was actually production number 1 which of course wasn't aired until recut for the two part The Menagerie.
Where No Man Has Gone Before was production number 2 and was aired.


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## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

JYoung said:


> 28 regular production episodes for Season 1 plus the second pilot = 29.
> The Cage was actually production number 1 which of course wasn't aired until recut for the two part The Menagerie.
> Where No Man Has Gone Before was production number 2 and was aired.


Oh crap.... didn't this same discussion prevent the class from going back to the 3rd grade????


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## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

jkeegan said:


> Ok but jokes about our own overanalysis aside, what are people suggesting - that the doctor faked the picture by having Hurley pose for TWO pictures, one where there's a Dave there, and another one later at night where he isn't, and then Hurley forgets the second one somehow? Clearly that was the production team's best quick effort to create the same photo but without Dave there.


HEY! That's a great theory! Maybe the doc hypnotised Hurley late at night and had him pose for that picture.


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## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

Guindalf said:


> I have a fear that it'll get cancelled somewhere down the line without a lot of questions being answered and we'll all be left hanging!


On the contrary, I think that would be absolutely the best possible ending.


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## CraigEagle (Jun 25, 2002)

My input on "Dave", all speculation

In Hurley's mind Dave was a patient at the Mental Hospital. We had no indication that Dave had ever been "seen" by Hurley prior to being put in the hospital. This means that Dave did not start appearing in Hurley's mind until AFTER he was presumably taking whatever "medication" the hospital was giving him. It is noteworthy that the same day that Hurley stops taking the medication he also stops seeing Dave.
On the Island Hurley did not see Dave until he began eating the Dharma food. Also noteworthy is that Dave appeared each time exactly when Hurley would begin to binge on the Dharma food. 
- Craig


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## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

stevieleej said:


> Nerds.


What have small candies got to do with anything???????


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## GDG76 (Oct 2, 2000)

CraigEagle said:


> My input on "Dave", all speculation
> ...
> Also noteworthy is that Dave appeared each time exactly when Hurley would begin to binge on the Dharma food.


Yes but it was clearly established that Dave would show up anytime Hurley needed to rationalize his eating. He couldn't binge eat until the Dharma food showed up and he only recently started to feel guilty ( I personally think his guilt surfaced because he fell for Libby and in his mind, she can only fall for him if he is slimmer). Dave came back as his defense mechanism to rationalize his eating only when he felt guilty about it- had nothing to do with what was in the food or his meds.


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## ethos42 (Jun 2, 2005)

my big question is still: What happened to the monster/security system?!?


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## Donbadabon (Mar 5, 2002)

Didn't they dynamite it in an earlier episode?


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## FauxPas (Jan 8, 2002)

I don't think this has been mentioned yet - one of the numbers:
23 other people were on the deck with Hurley when it collapsed.


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## twincaminferno (Mar 6, 2006)

Again - why hasn't Locke told Jack about the map on the blast door?? If only the Losties would talk to each other...geez! 

I did notice though that Hurley only saw Dave each time he ate something or had to do with food. Maybe they drug people in different ways (whatever their weakness is)


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## stark (Dec 31, 2003)

KRS said:


> The real question about Libby is - was she stalking Hurley by being on the flight/in Sydney in the first place.


But Hurley was the last person on the plane and it was a last minute scramble to get on that flight.

She would have had to be on the plane already and accurately guessed that Hurley would pick and make the flight.

If she was really stalking him, she wouldn't get on a plane if she wasn't sure he was going to be on it.


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## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

twincaminferno said:


> Again - why hasn't Locke told Jack about the map on the blast door?? If only the Losties would talk to each other...geez!
> 
> I did notice though that Hurley only saw Dave each time he ate something or had to do with food. Maybe they drug people in different ways (whatever their weakness is)


He's too busy telling Jack not to tell him what he can't do... or the new version of it, that he doesn't want a wheelchair.

If you were Locke, would you tell Jack ANYTHING at this point?

Greg


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## teknikel (Jan 27, 2002)

stark said:


> But Hurley was the last person on the plane and it was a last minute scramble to get on that flight.
> 
> She would have had to be on the plane already and accurately guessed that Hurley would pick and make the flight.
> 
> If she was really stalking him, she wouldn't get on a plane if she wasn't sure he was going to be on it.


And that brings me back to the question: Was she or wasn't she on the plane? She could have heard the story about him getting on the plane from any of the "Tailees" and embellished for her "evil" purposes. I agree with stevieleej, until otherwise refuted, Libby=Other.


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

Guindalf said:


> (for the record, I AM fat, but not lonely thanks to a fantastic wife who just called me at the office for no other reason than to tell me she loves me!).


Go ahead, rub it in...


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## Kevdog (Apr 18, 2001)

unicorngoddess said:


> HEY! That's a great theory! Maybe the doc hypnotised Hurley late at night and had him pose for that picture.


He could have been taking Ambien and was just "sleep eating..."


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## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

So now she's an other because she likes hurley?


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

> I do have to wonder why Jack & Crew would just have left those supplies out there after they had found them that night. Wouldn't they know that it would cause a "riot"?


 Cause Jack is used to having interns do the grunt work. Last week I thought he was regaining the leadership role but he fell down on this one.

What a bunch of modern geeks. It's kinda hard to Photoshop a Polaroid photo. It's precisely why they chose that camera, I'm sure. 

As a Dave myself, I liked this one. And Mike already posted the "Dave's not here" line. They obviously meant this episode to rule out someone imagining the entire thing. And count me as one who thinks that Bugeye didn't push the button. And there was even a nod to the Losties not talking to each other, when Charlie asked if anyone heard a plane and Sawyer said "Sure I did - I just chose not to tell anyone."

No one has commented on the side effects of Clonazepam ...

Side effects that you should report to your prescriber or health care professional as soon as possible:
confusion
depression
double vision or abnormal eye movements
*hallucinations (seeing and hearing things that are not really there)*
lightheadedness or fainting spells
mood changes, excitability or aggressive behavior
movement difficulty, staggering or jerky movements
muscle cramps
restlessness
tremors
weakness or tiredness

He better hope Dharma has a good mail order prescription plan!


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Libby=Other


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## rhuntington3 (May 1, 2001)

StrynBean said:


> All I can say is...about the last scene...HOLY CRAP!


That's what I said to my TV this morning when I watched it. WOW!


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## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Libby=Other


Nope, don't buy it.
We saw Libby come out of the water with Ana Lucia.
Unless she was planted on the plane and caused it to crash, that would be the only way it work.
And it would still be one hell of a gamble.


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## spelcheker (Nov 5, 2002)

"him" =

(wait for it)

*The DEVIL!!!!*


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## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

JYoung said:


> Nope, don't buy it.
> We saw Libby come out of the water with Ana Lucia.
> Unless she was planted on the plane and caused it to crash, that would be the only way it work.
> And it would still be one hell of a gamble.


Maybe she's an "Other" operative from the "real world". Presumably all of the current "Others" (any and all of the groups) were from the world at some point.

And presumably some of them may have real world contact and maybe even the ability to leave and return to the island.

If the "Others" caused the airplane to crash Libby could have been a "plant". Of course, ensuring her survival seems like a big continuity hole and I don't see what the point would be... but who knows!

Semi-related... not really a spoiler but more than just my speculation so I'll spoiler it just in case...



Spoiler



Haven't the writers/producers stated that we (the audience) WILL find out the cause of the crash before the end of this season? That pretty much sounds like it wasn't just an accident.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

FauxPas said:


> I don't think this has been mentioned yet - one of the numbers:
> 23 other people were on the deck with Hurley when it collapsed.


Smeek.. In this post I mentioned that not only were there 23 people on the deck when it broke, but it was only built to hold 8, and that that was an example of Hurley being involved with the numbers before he learned them from Leonard.


----------



## cwoody222 (Nov 13, 1999)

jkeegan said:


> Smeek.. In this post I mentioned that not only were there 23 people on the deck when it broke, but it was only built to hold 8, and that that was an example of Hurley being involved with the numbers before he learned them from Leonard.





Spoiler



But haven't the producers said that some of the appearances of the numbers have significance (like being on the Hatch and needed for the button) but other times they just throw them in there as a little nod to the audience?



I've always gone under the assumption that if ALL the numbers appeared in a "major" way, it's important to the story.

But if a soccer team runs by with numbers coincidentally on their jerseys than it's just a "hey cool!" thing for the audience.

Of course, the debate could be what is "major" and what isn't.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

CraigEagle said:


> My input on "Dave", all speculation
> 
> On the Island Hurley did not see Dave until he began eating the Dharma food. Also noteworthy is that Dave appeared each time exactly when Hurley would begin to binge on the Dharma food.
> - Craig


This makes no sense. Hurley has been eating the Dharma food for some time. As far as we know, he never saw Dave during that time. Hurley didn't see Dave on the island until after he had resolved to stop binging on the Dharma food and had actually gotten rid of it all. Then, when he had basically overcome his addiction by getting rid of the substance, thus making it impossible for him to give in again, suddenly their supplies are replenished and the huge obstacle that he had just overcome was suddenly staring him in the face again.


----------



## kbrunsting (Apr 12, 2002)

I haven't read the whole thread but.... I get it.... everyone's connected, everyone is linked to everyone else. I'm to the point where I really don't care how anymore....we know they're connected, let's move on.

I like the show, I like the actors... but its just too drawn out. I'll probably skip tivo'ing it next year and just rent the dvd's instead.


----------



## KRS (Jan 30, 2002)

stark said:


> But Hurley was the last person on the plane and it was a last minute scramble to get on that flight.
> 
> She would have had to be on the plane already and accurately guessed that Hurley would pick and make the flight.
> 
> If she was really stalking him, she wouldn't get on a plane if she wasn't sure he was going to be on it.


That's an interesting point. If she was indeed stalking him, maybe she got on the plane knowing that Hurley was also booked on it. Then, as it got closer and closer to departure, she anxiously waited to see him coming through the doors.

In an earlier episode, she made a comment that her foot had been stepped on by someone in the original group, even though she was a tailie. *Perhaps* she was so worried that Hurley was not going to make the flight that she got up and sat near the door, ready to get off if he didn't make it. Then, after she knew he was onboard, she returned to her original seat in the back.



cheesesteak said:


> And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.


I guess you hated the episode so much that you didn't pay attention for the last few minutes.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

teknikel said:


> And that brings me back to the question: Was she or wasn't she on the plane? She could have heard the story about him getting on the plane from any of the "Tailees" and embellished for her "evil" purposes. I agree with stevieleej, until otherwise refuted, Libby=Other.


If Libby is an other, how do you explain her being a patient at the same mental hospital as Hurley?

I suppose that she could have come to the island "recently", like Desmond. But, that would make her, at most, a "recent recruit of the others."

IMHO, Libby's being at the mental hospital greatly reduces the likelihood that she is an "other" and increases the likelihood that she was on the plane with all the rest of the "losties".


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I just noticed something...

Last week we heard Jack tell Sawyer:
"At least I'm not in your head."

This week Dave tells Hurley:
"Are you letting that doc get inside your head?"

I don't know if there've been any more "inside your head" references...but maybe that's the writers way of hinting to us that its NOT inside someone's head.


----------



## smak (Feb 11, 2000)

Fish Man said:


> IMHO, Libby's being at the mental hospital greatly reduces the likelihood that she is an "other" and increases the likelihood that she was on the plane with all the rest of the "losties".


The problem with that is why is Libby in Australia?

That's a much bigger coincidence than any of the chance encounters between castaways we've seen.

The only other one that comes close to the fact that a patient at Hurley's mental hospital is on the same flight as him back from Australia, is the Jack/Desmond encounter back in the states, and that Desmond is in the hatch.

What are the other face to face meetups before the flight? Didn't they all take place in Australia?

-smak-


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

smak said:


> What are the other face to face meetups before the flight? Didn't they all take place in Australia?
> 
> -smak-


Jack and Shannon crossed paths at the hospital


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

smak said:


> The problem with that is why is Libby in Australia?
> 
> That's a much bigger coincidence than any of the chance encounters between castaways we've seen.
> 
> ...


Locke's mother was in the same mental hospital as Hurley and Libby.

Shannon's father was the other driver involved in the accident that broke Jack's ex-wife's back, and who died because Jack made the decision to focus on her.

Hurley owns the box company that Locke worked for.

There are several other examples of connections between the losties in places other than Australia.

Why was Libby in Australia? There are lots of losties whom we don't know _why_ they were in Australia.

If not knowing why she was in Australia makes her an "other", than half of our characters are others.

The "evidence" that people are coming up with to suggest Libby is an "other" is so nebulous, IMHO, that you could speculate about the unknowns of any of the other losties and make an equally "strong" case that they are an other.

I really, really don't see it.

Some have suggested that her interest in Hurley is evidence that she is an "other".

Her interest in Hurley might be exactly what it seems. She _likes_ him.

For those who insist that their _must_ be an ulterior motive for her interest in Hurley, a far more likely "ulterior motive" would be that she knows he's a big lottery winner (because she saw the reports of his win on TV), not that she is an "other".


----------



## markz (Oct 22, 2002)

bigcb37 said:


> If TV has taught me anything, it's that fat ugly guys are married to hot wives all the time...and typically hilarity ensues.


Don't forget, there's usually a hot sister or a dumpy brother too!


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Her interest in Hurley might be exactly what it seems. She _likes_ him.


But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.



Grumpy Pants said:


> I thought this episode was lametastic until I saw her face turn down after they walked away from the cliff. I knew something was up in a sceond. I said to my wife "What is up with that look?". She had me rewind it to see which set-up the last scene as [valley girl] total shocker [/valley girl].


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

greg_burns said:


> But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.


I interpreted the "face" as worry.

That, combined with the final scene suggests that she's worried that Hurley might remember _where_ he's seen her before. She doens't want him to remember her that way. IMHO, that's the most obvious interpretation of the "face" she made.

She could be worried about this _regardless_ of her motives for paying attention to him, be they innocent or ulterior.

Bottom line, I think there's _zero_ credible evidence Libby is an "other". All "evidence" presented to this effect has been a huge stretch, IMHO.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other as to whether she simply "likes" Hurley, or has ulterior motives for paying attention to him.


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

greg_burns said:


> But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.


Yeah, that face wasn't evildoer face. Fake Henry Gale, now that's a face of someone with bad intentions.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

bruinfan said:


> Yeah, that face wasn't evildoer face.


----------



## pallendo (Sep 28, 2005)

Me me me!!! Of course, I'll claim that I knew Bruce Willis was dead about 30 minutes into "The 6'th Sense".

-Peter



MikeMar said:


> Who else knew that Dave was made up by Hurley in about 5 min?


----------



## JMikeD (Jun 10, 2002)

pallendo said:


> Me me me!!! Of course, I'll claim that I knew Bruce Willis was dead about 30 minutes into "The 6'th Sense".
> 
> -Peter


WAIT! Bruce Willis was dead?

That explains a lot.


----------



## whitson77 (Nov 10, 2002)

I guess I am in the minority, but I don't really care for the Hurley episodes. The only two that I have not liked were both Hurley centered episodes. His character doesn't do anything for me.


----------



## wprager (Feb 19, 2006)

One of the promo shots they (apparently) had up on the ABC website, which they quickly pulled, showed the scene where the doctor is taking Hurley's picture, but shot from behind Hurley. He has his arm around an empty chair, which indicates that Dave is imaginary.

Perhaps they were going to use that shot instead of showing us the polaroid, but changed their mind late in the game, prompting them to quickly set up the scene again, resulting in some continuity issues. Otherwise it should have been really simple to pause the scene, get Dave out of the way, and have the doctor take a real picture from the same location -- no continuity issues other than, perhaps, the position of Hurley's arm.

Or not. This is, after all, "Lost".



TAsunder said:


> Seriously, if they had digitally erased dave then people would be saying that it IS digitally erased because of X, Y, Z. There was no way for them to take the exact same picture, one with dave, one without, with zero differences otherwise.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

greg_burns said:


>


I just got done rewatching the ending.

Compare that face to the expression she had just after she took her meds in the final scene at the mental hospital.

Identical...

From where I sit, it's sort of a "psychotic" face.

It's meaning may be to show us that, like Hurley, she's not 100% "well" from whatever got her committed to that mental hospital.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

Fish Man said:


> Compare that face to the expression she had just after she took her meds in the final scene at the mental hospital.
> 
> Identical...
> 
> From where I sit, it's sort of a "psychotic" face.












I was just commenting on your statement here:



Fish Man said:


> Her interest in Hurley might be exactly what it seems. She _likes_ him.


That looks tells me something is up. She is using him (somehow). She does not really like him at all. IMO


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

Fish Man said:


> I just got done rewatching the ending.
> 
> Compare that face to the expression she had just after she took her meds in the final scene at the mental hospital.
> 
> ...


Well ... she's an actress. Perhaps she was actually going for two different expressions. I wouldn't read too much into the comparison.

I agree that she's got an agenda.


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

jehma said:


> I agree that she's got an agenda.


Doesn't everyone in this show?


----------



## pcguru83 (Jan 18, 2005)

pmyers said:


> Libby=Other


Remeber when the Tailies were hiking to the Losties side of the island and Cindy vanished? Guess who was walking with her...yup, it was Libby. Personally, I don't think Libby is an Other either, but no one had brought this up so thought I'd throw it out there.


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

greg_burns said:


>


A few frames after that grab, or perhaps a few frames before, is better (there's an instant where it looks much more like the face she was making walking away from the cliff with Hurley).


----------



## Fish Man (Mar 4, 2002)

pcguru83 said:


> Remeber when the Tailies were hiking to the Losties side of the island and Cindy vanished? Guess who was walking with her...yup, it was Libby. Personally, I don't think Libby is an Other either, but no one had brought this up so thought I'd throw it out there.


People have been bringing up that perhaps Libby is an "other" who was infiltrating the real world (hence her appearance in the mental hospital).

I was thinking, if "others" infiltrate the real world, to interact with the losties before the crash, a great candidate for such an "infiltrating" other is....

....wait for it... *Cindy!*

She was a flight attendant, she could have somehow caused the crash, even. If, that is, you buy into the "others in the real world" theory.

She disappeared because she went back to join the others at their camp!!

Explain to me how Libby made Cindy disappear while never being absent for so much as an instant herself!

Having said all that, I am of the opinion that the notion that "others" traveled to the "real world" to observe or "recruit" losties before the crash is a stretch way beyond what's normal even for these lost threads. *I don't buy it for a second.*

Therefore, IMHO, Libby's appearance at the mental hospital ties it up for me. It's as close to "proof", in my mind, as we'll ever get on this show:

*Libby's not an other.*

Because for her to be an other, you'd have to buy the notion that the others go to the "real world" and interact with future castaways. I think that's WAY too far out there.

Libby may have a hidden agenda vis-a-vis Hurley, but she's not an other.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke


----------



## vinniet (Jun 21, 2002)

MickeS said:


> Of course, Bruce Davison has been in tons of stuff, so it'd be hard to find him unfamiliar at this point. His biggest role in terms of exposure is probably as the anti-mutant senator in "X-Men".


Interesting that Bruce Davison was the crazy doctor in "Kingdom Hospital". This sort of seems fitting.


----------



## gchance (Dec 6, 2002)

Fish Man said:


> Libby may have a hidden agenda vis-a-vis Hurley, but she's not an other.


I hate when people say vis-a-vis. I think it's because of the Eric the Half-a-Bee song.  Look it up. 

So I was watching this again last night (it always seems I watch Lost once by myself and once with my wife). Two things.

First, everyone's talking about talking about everything BUT the core story about Hurley being in the hospital to begin with. Didn't Jorge Garcia do a fabulous acting job in this? The scene where he's talking with the doctor about the platform accident, the expressions on his face. They mostly portray him as comic relief but he really impressed me in this episode. It sort of reminds me of Anthony Anderson, who's always the comic relief, then out of nowhere he's on The Shield, stomping Shane Vandrell's face into the ground. Good stuff.

Second, re: Hurley's weight loss. In making the show, if Jorge Garcia lost weight, flashbacks would be extremely difficult to pull off. You'd end up with him having to be in a fat costume for his flashbacks or something. Either that or just not have any Hurley flashbacks, which would be a shame.

Greg


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

pmyers said:


> Libby=Other


I don't buy it. I can KINDA see the argument for it, I just don't think so.


----------



## rondotcom (Feb 13, 2005)

The Big Magnet pulled it down. Like the food.


----------



## madscientist (Nov 12, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke


The big question is, was it Barnett or Morris that took care of him? I say it was Morris, even though that's the obvious choice.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

madscientist said:


> The big question is, was it Barnett or Morris that took care of him? I say it was Morris, even though that's the obvious choice.


Must be blanking out, who are Barnett and Morris?


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke


Interesting theory... I like it.


----------



## vinniet (Jun 21, 2002)

Cboath said:


> Interesting theory... I like it.


That would explain how Lock got in the wheelchair. But why does Lock not know who Hurley is? Also the timing is all wrong.

Hurley breaks the deck.
Hurley goes to the hopital
Hurley gets the numbers at the hospital and wins the money.
Hurley buys the box company that Lock works at.


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

MikeMar said:


> Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke


doubtful since Hurley won the lottery (and then bought the box company Locke worked for) after the accident. If they would have crossed paths before the employee-employer relationship it would actually make that aspect of it superfluous.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

vinniet said:


> That would explain how Lock got in the wheelchair. But why does Lock not know who Hurley is? Also the timing is all wrong.
> 
> Hurley breaks the deck.
> Hurley goes to the hopital
> ...


Why couldn't Locke have gotten hurt on the deck, and then go work at the box company, which Hurley buys?

Is there anything that says when Locke joined the box company?


----------



## pendragn (Jan 21, 2001)

MikeMar said:


> Why couldn't Locke have gotten hurt on the deck, and then go work at the box company, which Hurley buys?
> 
> Is there anything that says when Locke joined the box company?


I don't know if they've mentioned how long Locke was at the box company, but don't we know how long he hasn't been able to walk? I thought it was like 4 years or something. I could have sworn that was covered.

tk


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

pendragn said:


> I don't know if they've mentioned how long Locke was at the box company, but don't we know how long he hasn't been able to walk? I thought it was like 4 years or something. I could have sworn that was covered.
> 
> tk


So do we know when the deck collapsed? could have been 4 years ago right?


----------



## Chibbie (Jan 16, 2006)

xuxa said:


> Is the Polaroid the same as the reality


I think there is a very simple explanation to why these photos don't match. The polaroid the Doc showed Hurley in his office isn't the one we saw the Doc take, but just one of the many he has taken of Hurley. For all we know, the Doc takes pictures all the time. Hurley just happens to be sitting in the same place, which isn't much of a stretch since he seem to like to hang out with Leonard.

 
 


However, the other shot we see of him taking a picture of Hurley was from Libby's flashback, but it is the same shot just from her perspective. 



Delta13 said:


> It's kinda hard to Photoshop a Polaroid photo. It's precisely why they chose that camera, I'm sure.


I agree! :up:


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

pallendo said:


> Me me me!!! Of course, I'll claim that I knew Bruce Willis was dead about 30 minutes into "The 6'th Sense".
> 
> -Peter


Oh for crying out loud....I just rented Sixth Sense to watch tonight because I'd never seen it....geesh....

JUST KIDDING


----------



## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

gchance said:


> ....First, everyone's talking about talking about everything BUT the core story about Hurley being in the hospital to begin with. Didn't Jorge Garcia do a fabulous acting job in this? The scene where he's talking with the doctor about the platform accident, the expressions on his face. They mostly portray him as comic relief but he really impressed me in this episode. It sort of reminds me of Anthony Anderson, who's always the comic relief, then out of nowhere he's on The Shield, stomping Shane Vandrell's face into the ground. Good stuff....


I agree. My sister and I e-mail each other after most every episode, and we both have loved any Hurley-centric episode. He's my idol and hero.


----------



## MikeMar (Jan 7, 2005)

Bierboy said:


> I agree. My sister and I e-mail each other after most every episode, and we both have loved any Hurley-centric episode. He's my idol and hero.


Start eating!


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

gchance said:


> Second, re: Hurley's weight loss. In making the show, if Jorge Garcia lost weight, flashbacks would be extremely difficult to pull off. You'd end up with him having to be in a fat costume for his flashbacks or something. Either that or just not have any Hurley flashbacks, which would be a shame.


Good point. Wow, hadn't thought about it until now, but that means that unless they already filmed some extra flashback scenes for Walt, we're not seeing any more of them (unless played by a different younger actor or something). Hmm.


----------



## JYoung (Jan 16, 2002)

stevieleej said:


> All right. Maybe Libby is not an other but I still don't trust her.
> 
> I'm not sure if she was on the plane but she was at the beach with the tailies right after the crash.
> I think she stated that Hurley stepped on her foot coming down the isle of the plane (which would
> ...


She _was_ on the plane.

Your photo backs that up.
That's right after they come out of the water.
Next to her is Ana Lucia.

For her not to have been on the plane, she would have had to have seen/heard it crash, run out to the beach and swim out to the rest of the survivors without anyone noticing.

After all, that worked so well for Goodwin......


----------



## wmm_16 (Jul 10, 2003)

I see a Truman Show thing coming.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Guindalf said:


> (for the record, I AM fat, but not lonely thanks to a fantastic wife who just called me at the office for no other reason than to tell me she loves me!).


Yes, that, and to make sure you're indeed in the office for another hour so her yoga instructor can stay for another round.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

MikeMar said:


> Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke


And then Hurley gave everybody that got hurt a job at his box co.


----------



## jehma (Jan 22, 2003)

madscientist said:


> The big question is, was it Barnett or Morris that took care of him? I say it was Morris, even though that's the obvious choice.


ROFL!


----------



## Paperboy2003 (Mar 30, 2004)

I'm sure we'll see a Libby-centric episode soon since she seems to have become more of a 'major' character. My guess is that when we see it it will show that Libby has an addictive, or compulsive personality and that she is indeed 'stalking' Hurley. There really isn't any other reason she could be on the same plane with him in Australia after being in the ward with him.

If there isn't a Libby centric episode coming up then I would absolutely feel comfortable in saying that Libby is an 'other'!!!!

(though at this time I don't believe she is)


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Yes, that, and to make sure you're indeed in the office for another hour so her yoga instructor can stay for another round.


Do the words "jealous", "sick" and "puppy" mean anything to you?


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

MikeMar said:


> Heard a good theory that maybe Locke broke his legs or whatever on that deck that Hurley broke


OR, the mob guys looking for his father, came back for seconds.


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

greg_burns said:


> But what about that face she made at the end of the scene? That was intentional for sure.


She might have realized that Hurley might crush her in the "doing it" phase of their relationship.


----------



## Keith_R90210 (Jul 26, 2003)

I thought this was an interesting episode that was purposefully meant to poke at those of us who analyze these things each week while also leaving us to ponder the idea that it is all in the mind of someone on the island.

I haven't really been participating in the threads for a litle bit so my apologies if this is smeeking but one thing that is bothering me is, where is Michael? I mean, is it just presumed that he got killed by Zeke and his boys while hunting for Walt? I find it funny that since we last saw him there has been little to no mention of him by the other characters or any kind of organization to find him...ala what happened with Claire and Ethan back in S1. Any thoughts on this?

Also, I don't buy into the theory that Libby is an 'Other' since we have some evidence that she was on the plane and was outside the island before the crash. BTW what a great ending, can't wait to see where they go with that.

Count me in as someone who thinks that Henry knows a lot more about the hatch than he is letting us on to believe.


----------



## TAsunder (Aug 6, 2003)

Paperboy2003 said:


> I'm sure we'll see a Libby-centric episode soon since she seems to have become more of a 'major' character. My guess is that when we see it it will show that Libby has an addictive, or compulsive personality and that she is indeed 'stalking' Hurley. There really isn't any other reason she could be on the same plane with him in Australia after being in the ward with him.
> 
> If there isn't a Libby centric episode coming up then I would absolutely feel comfortable in saying that Libby is an 'other'!!!!
> 
> (though at this time I don't believe she is)


Why does there have to be a reason for her to be on the plane with him? Why can't it be coincidence?


----------



## TR7spyder (Feb 28, 2006)

Keith_R90210 said:


> Also, I don't buy into the theory that Libby is an 'Other' since we have some evidence that she was on the plane and was outside the island before the crash. BTW what a great ending, can't wait to see where they go with that.


Yes, but I bet that they are not be going to go back to this topic for another few weeks  .


----------



## LordKronos (Dec 28, 2003)

Chibbie said:


> The polaroid the Doc showed Hurley in his office isn't the one we saw the Doc take, but just one of the many he has taken of Hurley.


Well, I'm not sure what elapsed between the time when we saw the doc take the photo and when the photo was shown to Hurley, but the doc did say to hurley something like "I've taken pictures of everyone here except you two...can you pose for a picture for me?"

So we can definitely rule out it being an older pic than the one we saw him take. Not sure if there was any sort of timeline indicator which might rule out it being a newer photo, other than the fact that I can't picture Hurley as having eaten celery sticks on more than one occasion


----------



## darthrsg (Jul 25, 2005)

xuxa said:


> Is the Polaroid the same as the reality
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My take is with Dave in the pic, it is Hurley's "reality"hence the daytime, without Dave it is the real world. Hurley might been sneaking a snack at night and been busted by the Doc while talking with Dave.


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

They haven't gone to look for Mike and Walt because the Others told them not to. Simple intimidation or fear of the unknown if you ask me. As for why they don't talk about him? Good question. Maybe they do, and it just isn't featured in the dialogue. Perhaps by design, or maybe because there's no reason for the writers to bring it up unless they plan on addressing/resolving it. I'm sure they have an idea of what will become of Mike and Walt, but until they're ready to show that hand any mentions of the two would just be called more loose ends.



Spoiler



In the previews for next week we see that Jack decides to cross the line, and he makes it sound like "enough is enough." So we know that they were definitely avoiding doing it because of their encounter with Zeke.


----------



## bryan314 (Nov 17, 2004)

darthrsg said:


> OR, the mob guys looking for his father, came back for seconds.


or involved in one of the many car accidents on this show.

or was inspecting Kate's moms house when Kate blew it up.

or was operated on by Jack's dad.


----------



## DUDE_NJX (Feb 12, 2003)

Guindalf said:


> Do the words "jealous", "sick" and "puppy" mean anything to you?


So not only lacking sense of humor, but also horribly insecure?  Good luck anyway. 

By the way, I heard yoga's good for you. No harm there.


----------



## unicorngoddess (Nov 20, 2005)

I think they haven't gone looking for Michael because, as Locke said, he doesn't want to be found. It's not a case like when claire was kidnapped...Michael willingly took off on his own. And as for Michael, Mr. Friendly told them that Walt was safe. I know they aren't the most trustworthy, but Michael has already been lost to the effort of finding walt and Locke said they shouldn't waste anymore manpower on it.


----------



## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

DUDE_NJX said:


> So not only lacking sense of humor, but also horribly insecure?  Good luck anyway.
> 
> By the way, I heard yoga's good for you. No harm there.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

> Why does there have to be a reason for her to be on the plane with him? Why can't it be coincidence?


_Do not mistake coincidence for fate._


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

scheckeNYK said:


> doubtful since Hurley won the lottery (and then bought the box company Locke worked for) after the accident. If they would have crossed paths before the employee-employer relationship it would actually make that aspect of it superfluous.


I don't think Hurley would have ever crossed paths with Locke at the box company, as he only learned that he owned a box company after his financial advisor informed him that it had burnt down. Didn't Hurley say at that time "I own a box company?"

It should be in the "Numbers" episode if anyone here has that one handy.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

getreal said:


> I don't think Hurley would have ever crossed paths with Locke at the box company, as he only learned that he owned a box company after his financial advisor informed him that it had burnt down. Didn't Hurley say at that time "I own a box company?"
> 
> It should be in the "Numbers" episode if anyone here has that one handy.


Here you go:


Numbers said:


> [We see Hurley in his accountant's office.]
> 
> KEN HAPLERIN: I would think you'd be happy. Every one of your stocks is up. Your interest in orange futures skyrocketed after those tropical storms hit Florida. And, you are now the majority shareholder in a box company in Tustin.
> 
> ...


----------



## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

DUDE_NJX said:


> Yes, that, and to make sure you're indeed in the office for another hour so her yoga instructor can stay for another round.


Cruel cruel cruel. But LOL  :up:


----------



## Guindalf (Jun 13, 2001)

DUDE_NJX said:


> So not only lacking sense of humor, but also horribly insecure?  Good luck anyway.
> 
> By the way, I heard yoga's good for you. No harm there.


Ooooops, sorry, I forgot you Yanks don't understand sarcasm!


----------



## TIVOSciolist (Oct 13, 2003)

cheesesteak said:


> And there's no way the hot chick hooks up with Hurley. That part was like watching an ABC Afterschool Special.


Let's see . . . 40+ crash survivors on the island. Presumably the sex ratio is about 50-50. At least four are married. Kate is taking turns with Jack and Sawyer. Michael's gone sightseeing. Eko is too busy being a carpenter. Locke spends most of his time in the hatch.

With these odds, even _I_ could have a chance.

(BTW, in real life, Jorge Garcia has a pretty hot girlfriend.)


----------



## bdlucas (Feb 15, 2004)

TIVOSciolist said:


> Locke spends most of his time in the hatch.


Which has a bunk, of course.


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

weymo said:


> I really liked Lost until I saw some commentary about some of the writers saying that they would come up with a way to pull it all together...like they do not have a master storyline worked out. I wouldn't be at all surprised that as viewers grow tired on waiting for answers that are clever and that make sense and as ratings decline, that they writers who remain will take some lame way out--it's all in coma boy's head (St. Elsewhere), purgatory, fantasy island, projections of a psi-kid (pages of the comic book).
> Does anybody else feel like the primrose path is overgrown?


/


----------



## bruinfan (Jan 17, 2006)

TIVOSciolist said:


> (BTW, in real life, Jorge Garcia has a pretty hot girlfriend.)


obviously, it's because he's rich :up:


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

"HURLEY: A box company?

KEN: Mmhmm. They make boxes, lucrative business. Everybody needs boxes. Which reminds me, your sneaker company in Canada. . .

HURLEY: I have a sneaker company in Canada? 

KEN: Well, not any more. It was destroyed in a fire last month. 

HURLEY: Of course it was "

That says that the SNEAKER company was burnt down, not the Box company. So. There is the possiblity of them crossing paths.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

betts4 said:


> "HURLEY: A box company?
> 
> KEN: Mmhmm. They make boxes, lucrative business. Everybody needs boxes. Which reminds me, your sneaker company in Canada. . .
> 
> ...


Where did anyone say that the box company burned down? We know that Locke worked there right up until he left to Australia so I don't think there's ever been any thought that it burned down.

It's entirely possible that Locke and Hurley crossed paths, but considering the level of involvement Hurley seems to have with his investments, I think it's unlikely.


----------



## cherry ghost (Sep 13, 2005)

devdogaz said:


> Where did anyone say that the box company burned down? We know that Locke worked there right up until he left to Australia so I don't think there's ever been any thought that it burned down.
> 
> It's entirely possible that Locke and Hurley crossed paths, but considering the level of involvement Hurley seems to have with his investments, I think it's unlikely.


In a post that you replied to, although they said "burnt", not "burned".

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3930647&&#post3930647


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

Big_Daddy said:


> I thought that too, but now I'm not so sure.... Clearly Henry knew what would happen if the button wasn't pushed - at least as far as the hieroglyphics popping up were concerned. So either he didn't push it and he was being truthful (a BIG assumption for this character), or the others were involved with the hatch before, and didn't push it, OR they were involved in creating the hatch.
> 
> Regarding what happens - either nothing happens (as he described) or "something bad" happens. But as he's trapped in the hatch - why would he want them not to push it and have something bad happen in the hatch? He clearly does not want to die. So he may be telling the truth.
> 
> The other option is that something potentially undesirable happens, but the hatch itself is not affected. And although it may be generally undesirable, it may help Henry out of whatever trouble he's in. Hmmmm....


/


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

cherry ghost said:


> In a post that you replied to, although they said "burnt", not "burned".
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3930647&&#post3930647


Funny, I didn't realize that the post I replied to said that the box company burned down. I was just replying with the requested transcript.


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

pmyers said:


> I do have to wonder why Jack & Crew would just have left those supplies out there after they had found them that night. Wouldn't they know that it would cause a "riot"?


/


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

Donbadabon said:


> They showed us actual video at the end of the epsiode, where Hugo put his arm around an empty chair as the Doc was taking his picture.
> 
> So that proves Dave was not there.[/QUOTE/


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

cherry ghost said:


> The magnet could also be used to hold the blast doors up.


/


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

What if the experiement is a sort of Joe Schmo type thing. Imagine that each of the Losties thinks that they arethe only ones "in on it" and trying to evoke reactions from their islandmates. What they don't know is that each person thinks they are the only mole. So in essance, while some people think they are above the experiment, they are all actually being tricked into being part of a much larger picture/experiment. Just hypotosyzing.


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

Fish Man said:


> Locke's mother was in the same mental hospital as Hurley and Libby.
> 
> Shannon's father was the other driver involved in the accident that broke Jack's ex-wife's back, and who died because Jack made the decision to focus on her.
> 
> ...


/


----------



## DRobbins (Dec 23, 2001)

eugene82 said:


> I believe Libby is a psychological liar.


What do you mean by a "psychological" liar? Do you mean a pathological liar, or something else?


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

devdogaz said:


> Here you go:


/


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

DRobbins said:


> What do you mean by a "psychological" liar? Do you mean a pathological liar, or something else?


/


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

scheckeNYK said:


> What if the experiement is a sort of Joe Schmo type thing. Imagine that each of the Losties thinks that they arethe only ones "in on it" and trying to evoke reactions from their islandmates. What they don't know is that each person thinks they are the only mole. So in essance, while some people think they are above the experiment, they are all actually being tricked into being part of a much larger picture/experiment. Just hypotosyzing.


/


----------



## jpepin (Sep 5, 2005)

Big_Daddy said:


> So Ecko's building something, huh? How much do you want to bet it's a church?


According to this, you're right:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/diary/105866.html


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jpepin said:


> According to this, you're right:
> 
> http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/diary/105866.html


Interesting diary entries. I think they're written by Rose. If she heard the name Henry Gale as the guy in the armory, and her brother is the original black Henry Gale, then I would understand her frustration. She has been to the hatch before, but would not be seen as a physical threat by the other guys (Jack, Locke, Sayid) who go there regularly.


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

[QUOTE
/


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

getreal said:


> Interesting diary entries. I think they're written by Rose. If she heard the name Henry Gale as the guy in the armory, and her brother is the original black Henry Gale, then I would understand her frustration. She has been to the hatch before, but would not be seen as a physical threat by the other guys (Jack, Locke, Sayid) who go there regularly.


/


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

eugene82 said:


> And what about the person Hurley saw falling as he was looking through the window? Was that Locke? You quoted the dialouge absolutely correct but did not mention the person falling.
> Of couse it is hard to catch the first time on that DVD ep Numbers.


I didn't quote the whole scene. The guy falling came later in the conversation and I chose not to include it because it had no bearing on the reason for the quote. Why would you think it was Locke who fell? The accountant referenced a box company in Tustin, implying that it was in another city from where they were. There's no indication that Locke had anything to do with that scene or was anywhere near the accountant's office building.


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

I also always wondered why people thought that it was Locke that was falling out the window. I had heard that theory before and was bewildered a bit by it. 

I am wondering if a run in with the 'thugs' that were after his dad will be why he lost mobility in his legs. Maybe that is too cliche a reason though.

I did wonder about the food and why Jack and crew didn't take some into the hatch (or maybe they did) and why Jack or someone besides Charlie was there to organize and hand out food better. Where was Kate? They left it out all night and didn't sort it out or get it ready for the influx of people. I guess Charlie or Kate went back to the beach to tell people. 
How often does a drop come? That was supposed to be enough food for at least two people (in theory the ones in the hatch?) but for how long? And I wonder if another drop is made at other hatches or for the Others? 

Always more questions with Lost.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

emandbri said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I didn't know there was a podcast, maybe this will help that empty feeling I'm having without my battlestar galactica podcasts!
> 
> Emily


Check your podcast feeds. There have been 2 BSG podcasts in the last couple weeks.


----------



## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

> That was supposed to be enough food for at least two people (in theory the ones in the hatch?) but for how long? And I wonder if another drop is made at other hatches or for the Others?


 Since the food has the Swan logo on the boxes, it's clear to me that this food was only meant for the Swan hatch. This would also seem to rule out the Others needing more food and that the delivery went bad, wound up in the wrong place, whatever. How the other hatches get food - if they do - is a good question. If the Swan hatch is the only one with this big ol' electomagnet inside it, it makes you wonder how the other parachute drops are controlled.


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

DUDE_NJX said:


> And then Hurley gave everybody that got hurt a job at his box co.


/


----------



## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

devdogaz said:


> I didn't quote the whole scene. The guy falling came later in the conversation and I chose not to include it because it had no bearing on the reason for the quote. Why would you think it was Locke who fell? The accountant referenced a box company in Tustin, implying that it was in another city from where they were. There's no indication that Locke had anything to do with that scene or was anywhere near the accountant's office building.[/QUOTE
> /


----------



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Eugene, it seems lots and lots of people, Lost fans I mean, connected tthe scene of Hurely and his accountant with Locke and Locke being in the scene somehow. (falling out the window?) 
My theory on why this is, basically is that the mention of the box company is a way of establishing their connection with each other. The same as when Boone was in the police station and Sawyer was dragged by or when Jack saw Shannon and her stepmom in the hallway of the hospital or Sayid was on the tv while Kate was talking to her dad or Hurley was seen on the tv while Jin was in the living room. Or any number of other things we have seen that has put two of the Lostaways together. Some from season one and some from season two.


----------



## greg_burns (May 22, 2004)

betts4 said:


> Eugene, it seems lots and lots of people, Lost fans I mean, connected tthe scene of Hurely and his accountant with Locke and Locke being in the scene somehow. (falling out the window?)


In case anyone wanted a closer look.


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

stevieleej said:


> [small rant] Just read the new post in the Lost diary and I'm a little irked at the stereotyping of Eko. _Since he's a religious man, he'll need to build a church._ The last thing they need is a church. They definitely need shelter, a place to live, some place secure - but any church "meetings" could be done anywhere. Maybe under a tarp. [/small rant]


As gratified as I am that the evidence suggests I am right (for me, a personal first with Lost theories, but I'll believe it when I see it), I don't think this is simply a "religious man needs church" thing. I think this is a "Eko needs a church" thing for himself, possibly for his continued atonement. It also builds upon the themes last season of the people who wanted to actively try to leave the island, while others were accepting that may not happen and settling in more.

Moreover, this would not be the first time the castaways have done stupid things with resources they had available. Such as Eko burning the nigerian plane, which may have had other useful items in it - or at a minimum, its metal shell that could be used to bolster shelters.


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

markz said:


> I like this theory.
> 
> And I think if this theory is true, then it was no coincedence that she was on the flight. I can't imagine two people who spent time in an institutution somewhere just happened to be coming back from Australia on exactly the same flight. Of course stranger things have happened!


My thoughts exactly when I saw the final scene. Libby...out to get Hurley's money.

How about this theory......that Dharma/DeGroot/Hanso/etc are in desperate need of money to keep their research going. No one is ponying up due to their "accident", and they "hire" Libby to stalk/track/watch/love Hurley to get money from him, so that they can keep their research going.


----------



## scheckeNYK (Apr 28, 2004)

I don't read the journal entries, but is it confirmed that


Spoiler



Rose is the author? I keep seeing people talking about the author's brother and I have to wonder if that's a red herring. Maybe it's brother in the sense of "I am my brother's keeper." That would point to Eko.


----------



## Cboath (Jun 22, 2004)

MickeS said:


> Of course, Bruce Davison has been in tons of stuff, so it'd be hard to find him unfamiliar at this point. His biggest role in terms of exposure is probably as the anti-mutant senator in "X-Men".


After this discussion, I found it funny that I was watching A&E this weekend cause Spies Like Us was on and sure enough, there is Bruce Davison.


----------



## Martin Tupper (Dec 18, 2003)

jlb said:


> My thoughts exactly when I saw the final scene. Libby...out to get Hurley's money.
> 
> How about this theory......that Dharma/DeGroot/Hanso/etc are in desperate need of money to keep their research going. No one is ponying up due to their "accident", and they "hire" Libby to stalk/track/watch/love Hurley to get money from him, so that they can keep their research going.


But Hurley didn't _have _any money at that point. He won the lottery by playing the numberd he learned from Leonard while in the hospital.

Is it possible that she was not watching Hurley, but actually watching Leonard?


----------



## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

Ugh. 

I haven't posted in a Lost thread in a while... a big part of the reason why slapped me in the face with this episode. The second season just hasn't been on par with what the first season offered me (or as I call it, "Desperate Housewives Syndrome") and this episode reminded me what I've grown to dislike. The show has just become too predictable. There were a few scenes that were plenty interesting (Hurley's confrontation with Sawyer, the last 30 seconds of the episode)... but the rest of it was just substandard IMO.

I mean, really.... the whole "I'm not really here. This entire experience you're having is just a figment of your imagination. I'm a failsafe in your head that's trying to get you to come back to reality by killing yourself in your fantasy" thing played out so much better the first time in Total Recall. And the fact that Dave wasn't a real person was painfully obvious immediately after the first scene in the mental hospital.


----------



## Big_Daddy (Nov 20, 2002)

Martin Tupper said:


> Is it possible that she was not watching Hurley, but actually watching Leonard?


I'm not a big fan of the Libby conspiracy theories....but this one is very interesting.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

eugene82 said:


> So Locke must have been working at the box company when he was approached by his boss with the magazine about the walkabout.


He was. When asked in one episode what he did right before the crash, he paused and said "I was a regional manager for a box company" (or something very close to it.. maybe the word distribution was in there).


> I think this was when Locke was playing cards or some game as he and an employee were eating dinner.


It was a war/strategy game if I recall correctly.


> Also may have been the ep in which Locke was on the phone talking to Helen.
> I seem to remember that he was in a wheelchair at the time.


..talking to someone he _called_ Helen.. She talked about charging him for an extra hour, so it's pretty clear she was a phone-sex line or something similar, and that he called her Helen (as in "What would you like my name to be?").

Please, Eugene, insert a few carriage returns here and there. I get exhausted reading through those long paragraphs!


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Skittles said:


> I mean, really.... the whole "I'm not really here. This entire experience you're having is just a figment of your imagination. I'm a failsafe in your head that's trying to get you to come back to reality by killing yourself in your fantasy" thing played out so much better the first time in Total Recall. And the fact that Dave wasn't a real person was painfully obvious immediately after the first scene in the mental hospital.


Thanks for reminding me about something I wanted to mention (and I hope it is not a smeek)......But when Libby got Hurley to step back from the edge, and they hugged, we had a closeup of Libby shedding a tear. That reminded me of the scene in Total Recall where they knew what was/wasn't a dream/implanted memory since "in dreams, people don't perspire". I thought Libby's tear was a nod to that....you know...sort of like in dreams/our minds, we don't shed actual tears, so it has to be real........


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Martin Tupper said:


> Is it possible that she was not watching Hurley, but actually watching Leonard?





Big_Daddy said:


> I'm not a big fan of the Libby conspiracy theories....but this one is very interesting.


Beat me to it (Big_Daddy), I was going to say the same thing.. My money is on Libby just being a mental patient (nor Dharma), but if she _is_ Dharma, that's a great theory. Good idea, Martin.


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

jlb said:


> Thanks for reminding me about something I wanted to mention (and I hope it is not a smeek)......But when Libbygot Hurley to step back from the edge, and they hugged we had a closeup of Libby shedding a tear. That reminded me of the scene in Total Recall where they new what was/wasn't a dream/implanted memory since "in dreams, people don't perspire". I thought Libby's tear was a nod to that....you know...sort of like in dreams/our minds, we don't shed actual tears, so it has to be real........


Quick Total Recall tangent.. it wasn't so much that "in dreams, people don't perspire" as it was that the "guy" shouldn't have been scared at all - there was no threat from Quaid(Arnold) to him, since he was sitting at some psycho-probe console - according to him. Yet Quaid putting a gun to the guy's head made the guy sweat, revealing he was really worried, revealing that he was real.

Second quick Total Recall tangent: Many many many times I've argued with people about whether the movie was.. well, I suppose I should spoiler tag this (even though everything else is spoiler-tag worthy too, but..)..


Spoiler



I've argued with people about whether the movie was all a dream or not (I've argued both sides). I now believe they put in enough evidence for both sides just to get people to argue about the movie to increase rentals/sales, etc.. But one of the big arguments _against_ most of the movie being a dream (from the moment he entered Recall) is that we see scenes that Arnold isn't in (such as when Richter is talking to Cohaggen) - why would Arnold dream about a scene that he isn't in, and doesn't react to?

The best defense to that argument is "It's just cinematics.. for the purpose of the story they can take some liberties with what's shown..".

In Lost however, by having Libby actually say out loud "that happened to me.. you don't remember it because I'm real - not imagined, and it didn't happen to you", they've effectively eliminated that artistic license excuse.. It can't all be solely in Hurley's head.. (_we_ saw the stuff that happened to her on the other side of the island that Hurley didn't see).


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Martin Tupper said:


> But Hurley didn't _have _any money at that point. He won the lottery by playing the numberd he learned from Leonard while in the hospital.
> 
> Is it possible that she was not watching Hurley, but actually watching Leonard?


I should have been more verbose in what I said.....I meant that after he was out of the hospital, and once they "knew" that Libby was in the hospital at the same time.......They certain could have gotten access to who was in the hospital at the same time as Hurley......

I also read this book (can't remember the title) about a year ago that was based on current fact/research/etc related to using EMG therapy to erase and/or implant memories. Now, I doubt the writes would make the whoe story be inside Hurley's head, but I could see the experiment being implanting certain memories into everyone's mind. With a story line like that, what we see as flashbacks would be "current time" and the Island would just be the implanted memories.

In the book, each time they "warmed up" the EMG machine, it made a lot of loud, electronic kind of noises. Maybe the "magnets" and the "noises" on the Island are the sounds of a machine being warmed up that are implanting or refreshing implanted memories........

Just a thought


----------



## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

jkeegan said:


> Quick Total Recall tangent.. it wasn't so much that "in dreams, people don't perspire" as it was that the "guy" shouldn't have been scared at all - there was no threat from Quaid(Arnold) to him, since he was sitting at some psycho-probe console - according to him. Yet Quaid putting a gun to the guy's head made the guy sweat, revealing he was really worried, revealing that he was real.
> 
> Second quick Total Recall tangent: Many many many times I've argued with people about whether the movie was.. well, I suppose I should spoiler tag this (even though everything else is spoiler-tag worthy too, but..)..
> 
> ...


Jeff, thank you for correcting my memories (hah!) of Total Recall. I guess I am going to have to get my Baboon's Ass tin out and watch it again soon!


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> He was. When asked in one episode what he did right before the crash, he paused and said "I was a regional manager for a box company" (or something very close to it.. maybe the word distribution was in there).


From "All the Best Cowboys have Daddy Issues:"


> [Shot of Boone tying red fabric to a tree.]
> 
> BOONE: Red shirt.
> 
> ...


----------



## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

One other thing I'd wanted to say that I liked (if I didn't already).. I liked the ambiguity they kept alive by having Hurley try to hide the slipper from Libby originally.. When he later asks her if he had one, her answer is "I don't remember one", which is even _more_ ambiguous.. First, he hid it, so she wouldn't see it (i.e. it might be imagined), and second, she didn't remember it (so maybe she did see it and it was real, but she forgot, or is lying).. Maybe Dave was imagined when at the institution, but manufactured by the island now.. (I do remember someone saying something like this, so that's a clearly labeled smeek.. if one knowingly smeeks and labels it, is it still a smeek?  ).

Something else that I liked was Hurley being slapped (and feeling it) in the institution.. That right there was proof that he can imagine physical things.. Whether the rock thrown at his stomach is real or not is still unknown, but what is known is that at some point in the past when he was in the institution, it _could_ have been real..

Why do I like that? Because it lets the writers do cool stuff down the road if they want.. What if someone or something on the island that we've seen for a while isn't real, but is only imagined by Hurley? We wouldn't be able to rely on things like "see! Person X is holding up that coconut - if they were fake it'd be hovering!", since Hurley has been _shown_ to have complex, truly believed hallucinations.

Ok, back to work.


----------



## getreal (Sep 29, 2003)

jkeegan said:


> ... Hurley try to hide the slipper from Libby originally.. When he later asks her if he had one, her answer is "I don't remember one"...


My recollection is that Hurley asked Libby if she ever saw him holding a slipper and her response was a clear "No."



jkeegan said:


> ... Whether the rock thrown at his stomach is real or not


I believe it was a coconut that was hurled to Hurley's "coconuts". Or his belly.


----------



## Skittles (May 25, 2002)

getreal said:


> My recollection is that Hurley asked Libby if she ever saw him holding a slipper and her response was a clear "No."


 Actually, Libby definitely said she didn't recall.


----------



## thenightfly42 (Mar 5, 2002)

getreal said:


> My recollection is that Hurley asked Libby if she ever saw him holding a slipper and her response was a clear "No."


The transcript:


lost-tv.com said:


> HURLEY: When you saw me on the beach this morning was I holding a slipper?
> 
> LIBBY: Not that I can remember, no. {she holds Hurley's face in her hands} Hurley, look at me. I am real. You're real. The way I feel about you -- that's real.
> 
> ...


----------



## devlindark (Jul 20, 2005)

I used to love this show but that past few shows have just blown!!!
I mean who cares about this BS , Hurley and his imaginary friend woopedey doo!!!
nothing meaningfull about the island or the hatch came out - the one prior to this wasn't too bad with the hatch going into lockdown and lock seeing the drawing on the blast door
but come on the guy who was in a wheelchair and now can walk is the one who gets his leg hurt! man didn't see that coming. What was the point of that 

Then this guy the other with his bulls*** balloon story - it has been such a drag on the story and has taken the focus off of the real story which is the island, the hatch and the others enough about dumb stuff that leads the story no where - 

as far as hurley witht the food - I mean come on you know why they wrote that story, because he still hasn't dropped a pound so how do you explain the fat guy not losing weight - wow he has been hording food!!!!!

they need to get back to what drew people to this show - the island and it's mysteries
and the hatch and what role it plays , the others ect , but these past few have been a waste


----------



## verdugan (Sep 9, 2003)

devlindark said:


> Then this guy the other with his bulls*** balloon story - it has been such a drag on the story and has taken the focus off of the real story which is the island, the hatch and the others enough about dumb stuff that leads the story no where -
> 
> they need to get back to what drew people to this show - the island and it's mysteries
> and the hatch and what role it plays , the others ect , but these past few have been a waste


??? So let me get this straight. You're pissed that they spent so much time on the guy with the balloon story. However, you want them to come back to stories about the others?

/me stops feeding the troll


----------



## Dilerium (Dec 3, 2005)

Big_Daddy said:


> Moreover, this would not be the first time the castaways have done stupid things with resources they had available. Such as Eko burning the nigerian plane, which may have had other useful items in it - or at a minimum, its metal shell that could be used to bolster shelters.


Speaking of which, how does a small airplane from Nigeria end up in the South Pacific? It still had the passengers and cargo that excaped from Nigeria. How did that plane end up waaaaaaaaaaaaaay over in the Pacific?

My apologies if this has already been discussed.

(An aside, what is a "smeek"?)


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Dilerium said:


> (An aside, what is a "smeek"?)


That ^^^ is.


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## MickeS (Dec 26, 2002)

devlindark, I really think you're complaining about not seeing the forest because of all the trees that are in the way.


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## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

Big_Daddy said:


> As gratified as I am that the evidence suggests I am right (for me, a personal first with Lost theories, but I'll believe it when I see it), I don't think this is simply a "religious man needs church" thing. I think this is a "Eko needs a church" thing for himself, possibly for his continued atonement. It also builds upon the themes last season of the people who wanted to actively try to leave the island, while others were accepting that may not happen and settling in more.
> 
> Moreover, this would not be the first time the castaways have done stupid things with resources they had available. Such as Eko burning the nigerian plane, which may have had other useful items in it - or at a minimum, its metal shell that could be used to bolster shelters.


/


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## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

jkeegan said:


> He was. When asked in one episode what he did right before the crash, he paused and said "I was a regional manager for a box company" (or something very close to it.. maybe the word distribution was in there).
> It was a war/strategy game if I recall correctly.
> ..talking to someone he _called_ Helen.. She talked about charging him for an extra hour, so it's pretty clear she was a phone-sex line or something similar, and that he called her Helen (as in "What would you like my name to be?").
> 
> Please, Eugene, insert a few carriage returns here and there. I get exhausted reading through those long paragraphs!


/


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

eugene82 said:


> I also think its about atonement. Burning the nigerian plane may have been silly to many.
> But was it the beginning of Ekos atonement? He was mainly responsible for the herion on the plane. Not his brother.
> Just an idea. ?


Atonement seems big with Eko. It started when he stopped speaking after killing the 2 "others" on the other side of the island.


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## eugene82 (Mar 31, 2006)

hefe said:


> Atonement seems big with Eko. It started when he stopped speaking after killing the 2 "others" on the other side of the island.


/


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

eugene82 said:


> Not only is atonement big with Eko. We have seen several other surviours go through the same process.
> They are just not as big and little is shown thereby fooling the viewer of what is really taking place.
> Eugene


Yes, redemption specifically is an overall theme with many of the "lostaways." Eko and Sayid have also taken on active and conscious efforts to atone or in some way make themselves accountable. At least in a more obvious way than any of the others.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> Cause Jack is used to having interns do the grunt work. Last week I thought he was regaining the leadership role but he fell down on this one.
> 
> What a bunch of modern geeks. It's kinda hard to Photoshop a Polaroid photo. It's precisely why they chose that camera, I'm sure.
> 
> ...


Just plowed through all of Lost over the last two weeks. What really stuck out to me in this episode other than the improper use of Clonazepam was that it looked to be the wrong pill.

When my dad and brother died my mom started having panic attacks and they put her on Clonazepam. It was a little yellow pill. I came to meet a lot of other people who were on it and they all had little yellow pills. Is the big blue one the super fat guy version? This show is really good about details so I found it odd that they missed that.


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## Delta13 (Jan 25, 2003)

There's actually about 5 different colors - bluish, greenish, white, yellow, and light green. Check here for more (including pictures) - Drug Digest

I'm honored - I'm pretty sure no one has quoted me 6 months after I posted something.


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## Figaro (Nov 10, 2003)

Delta13 said:


> There's actually about 5 different colors - bluish, greenish, white, yellow, and light green. Check here for more (including pictures) - Drug Digest
> 
> I'm honored - I'm pretty sure no one has quoted me 6 months after I posted something.


Well better late than pregnant.


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

Delta13 said:


> There's actually about 5 different colors - bluish, greenish, white, yellow, and light green. Check here for more (including pictures) - Drug Digest
> 
> I'm honored - I'm pretty sure no one has quoted me 6 months after I posted something.


"I'm honored - I'm pretty sure no one has quoted me 6 months after I posted something." - Delta13


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## jkeegan (Oct 16, 2000)

(That's eight years, five months, 3 weeks, and 6 days).. Sorry those weren't numbers.


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