# TiVo Support moved to 3rd party?



## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

The past three days, I have submitted three support requests with TiVo - starting with the removal of the Video Podcast Download capability and the crippling of the Download Manager. I have submitted tickets in the past with TiVo and used to login, then submit the ticket and see the list of past tickets and get acknowledgement e-mails within 24 hours. I didn't always get the answer I wanted, but at least I knew some human acknowledged the issue. These past three nights, I have logged in as before, but when I click on the Contact Us button, I get sent to a third party web site: tivoproduction.force.com/Support/apex/CreateCaseFromSupport -- which might be OK, but so far, I am less than impressed. This domain (force.com) is registered to Salesforce - a third party. There is no continuity between tivo.com and force.com. I now have to fill in a form with my name, e-mail, phone number, TSN, then fill in the text box with details. I have to go back to tivo.com to look up my TSN, then back to the form to fill it in. OK, so that's not too painful... but then I fill in the form and get an automated e-mail, but no response from a human. I don't have a tracking number, I have no way to refer to this ticket. I cannot understand why they have changed this, but I do not find this to be an improvement. Has anyone heard from a human at TiVo support in the past three days?


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## replaytv (Feb 21, 2011)

I was thinking of entering a ticket, but think I will wait to see if their new system is working correctly.


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## realityboy (Jun 13, 2003)

Maybe that explains what happened to my ticket. I submitted it on 4/1, and there's been no response (other than the automated one). The website shows it as in progress, but if I click on it, I get case number not found.


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

beryrinaldo said:


> I cannot understand why they have changed this, but I do not find this to be an improvement. Has anyone heard from a human at TiVo support in the past three days?


Support is a money pit and doesn't add to the bottom line, many companies have learned this and they cut the costs there to the bone, it wouldn't surprise me if Tivo has done the same.

While you can say "but it matters to ME!" in the big picture it rarely does, consumers are a group based almost purely on cost of product not quality despite their insistence they aren't.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

I've always called during business hours and tend to get good reps. E-mail is almost always fruitless with Tivo. Phone service could have changed too. I wish they'd just fix their web site.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

dianebrat said:


> Support is a money pit and doesn't add to the bottom line, many companies have learned this and they cut the costs there to the bone, it wouldn't surprise me if Tivo has done the same.
> 
> While you can say "but it matters to ME!" in the big picture it rarely does, consumers are a group based almost purely on cost of product not quality despite their insistence they aren't.


Except (at least) when the product initially doesn't function as it should, or the consumer can't figure it out, and the consumer will return the item absent support. Facing that right now with a new scanner that won't function as it should, support telling me that the initial setup files, from the company's own CD that came with the scanner, may have been corrupted, and to remove the initial setup files, using the company's removal tools (then provided to me), and then to try using downloads from the company's website--absent that support, the scanner would have been returned as unusable.

Also, isn't support and quality part of the reason why some users are content enough to pay Apple's prices?


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

dianebrat said:


> ..... consumers are a group based almost purely on cost of product not quality despite their insistence they aren't.


This

Reminds me of Jack Nicholson's line in "A Few Good Men":

"You can't _handle_ the truth!"


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Mikeguy said:


> Except (at least) when the product initially doesn't function as it should, or the consumer can't figure it out, and the consumer will return the item absent support.


In the big picture that customer returning the product is a minimal loss and worth it since it's less than the cost of providing stronger/better support. I'm being serious here, the cost of support is such a money suck that unless your product needs constant hand holding you're better off just letting them figure it out and Google a solution, even if they lose the sale they're ahead because the odds are low you'll return it, most people just toss it in the basement or garbage.



Mikeguy said:


> Also, isn't support and quality part of the reason why some users are content enough to pay Apple's prices?


Apple is a unique in so many ways that you can't assign any standard business practices to them anymore, that's not a bad thing, but it means you can't compare to them anymore.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

Yeah, I don't know that I can agree. Based on all the "please call us if you need setup help, please do not return this item" flyers I find in new tech. packaging, I think that at least some manufacturers would prefer that the customer call for support. A lost sale is exactly that--and I venture to guess that the majority of people indeed will return the new scanner that won't work out-of-the box, rather than eating the $100 loss.

And certainly, Apple is different--but it got that way somehow. And from what I can tell when I pass by an Apple store or call support myself, customer service seems to be part of the explanation.


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## werk (Feb 24, 2005)

Force.com is just a platform for businesses to build salesforce integrated apps. It doesn't necessarily mean that tivos support has been outsourced. It's like if you go to another company's support page and get directed to zendesk for ticket management. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ncted (May 13, 2007)

Salesforce is one of the largest, if not the largest, CRM software company in the world. Tivo probably just moved their installation to SF's cloud, so they don't have to run their own infrastructure, which is popular these days, if not always successful when it comes to actually lowering costs.


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## choco (Nov 3, 2000)

As of 3-4 weeks ago, Tivo phone tech support was based out of Colorado. I was in the process of ordering a new unit and then later exchanging it because of a problem. I spoke to a number of tech support reps and asked one of them about their operations. I was wondering why CO and not the bay area where headquarters was. He told me they wanted a more central time zone to have better hours for east coast support. He said there were around 50 tech support agents who worked there for varying lengths of time, and they worked solely for Tivo. He had been there for over a year, was knowledgeable, and all the info he gave me was correct. Others weren't as good and told me things that turned out not to be true (One said my replacement unit would be shipped 2nd day air, but it wasn't. Another said I would have to activate service on my replacement unit after receiving it, but I didn't have to since it was already transferred from my old unit.)

I don't know if online tech support is also handled by the same CO group, but I thought I'd share my anecdote.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salesforce.com

RUH ROH!
One of the early investors is Nancy Pelosi. Queue up the right wing tin foil hat brigade chanting "I want my TiVo back!"

I also had a support ticket opened asking about why I did not get Yahoo Screen. That was a week ago and I never heard from them. I also get the case not found when I click on my support tickets. I also have a TiVo with a loud fan that may have to be replaced. That is still an open ticket.
I also contacted Margret the other day about Yahoo Screen but I never heard from her either. In fact she has not visited this forum since the 25th of March.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

choco said:


> He told me they wanted a more central time zone to have better hours for east coast support.


And my guess is, a presumed lower cost of a support staff there than in the middle of Silicon Valley doesn't hurt, either.


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## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

I can understand having a call center in Colorado, time zone closer to the east coast and probably lower costs. I can also understand what werk said about force.com just being a platform for things like ticket management, etc. And perhaps TiVo support is completely in-house still. What I don't understand is that the page I used to get to had all the tickets I had ever submitted and I could reply to those tickets right on the page. Even if they've moved to a new support platform, I think that there should be some continuity between when I log in to support at tivo.com to when I click that "Contact Support" which takes me off to tivoproduction.force.com.

Since Sunday night, I have submitted three things to customer support and have received nothing except automated replies. I have no ticket numbers, and no way to see the tickets on their web site (tivoproduction.force.com, that is). I don't usually have time to call or chat with them during their hours, so submitting tickets is generally the way I contact them. It's worked well in the past, so hopefully these are just bumps in the road as TiVo moves to a new ticketing platform.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Mikeguy said:


> Yeah, I don't know that I can agree. Based on all the "please call us if you need setup help, please do not return this item" flyers I find in new tech. packaging, I think that at least some manufacturers would prefer that the customer call for support. A lost sale is exactly that--and I venture to guess that the majority of people indeed will return the new scanner that won't work out-of-the box, rather than eating the $100 loss.
> 
> And certainly, Apple is different--but it got that way somehow. And from what I can tell when I pass by an Apple store or call support myself, customer service seems to be part of the explanation.


Apple is different because they are marketing geniuses and have successfully ripped off every recent popular piece of consumer tech and pretended to have invented it themselves. Oh, that and and a nice tall pretty walled garden. So that and perhaps nice tech support people = Apple's success. They didn't get to where they are because of good support.


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## CybrFyre (Mar 25, 2008)

3 days now on my support req


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

I did a trace route of tivoproduction.force.com and got an IP address of 23.15.9.136. I looked up the IP address and it belongs to Akamai Technologies in Cambridge Massachusetts.
http://23.15.9.136.ipaddress.com/

If I look up the IP address directly then I get this:
http://tivoproduction.force.com.ipaddress.com/


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## dianebrat (Jul 6, 2002)

Jed1 said:


> I did a trace route of tivoproduction.force.com and got an IP address of 23.15.9.136. I looked up the IP address and it belongs to *Akamai Technologies in Cambridge Massachusetts.*
> http://23.15.9.136.ipaddress.com/
> 
> If I look up the IP address directly then I get this:
> http://tivoproduction.force.com.ipaddress.com/


They're just using Akamai services for their pipe, probably the edge services division, that's what Akamai does for companies.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Well, it's hosted by salesforce.com so it's not unusual that they use Akaami.

You aren't going to get much information as SalesForce.com is used by lots of companies for CRM.


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## beryrinaldo (Sep 13, 2007)

Finally got a response from a human which said I could find my tickets, and I finally did, but it isn't without some confusion...

There are two things labelled "My Support" that I find when navigating the TiVo site (and the Salesforce site which is linked to). The first is from the pull-down menu at the top of the page. I choose SUPPORT--MY SUPPORT under Contact Us and it take me to https://www.tivo.com/tivo-mma/login/show.do# -- on that page, I find a "My Support" link on the left side of the page which takes me to https://www.tivo.com/tivo-mma/mysupport.do -- there is where I can see my tickets (even older ones submitted before the addition of Salesforce stuff). However, if I first go to SUPPORT--CONTACT SUPPORT it sends me to http://tivoproduction.force.com/Support/apex/SupportHomePage1 I see a link on the left of the page labelled "My support" (note case) which takes me to https://www.tivo.com/tivo-mma/login/show.do# -- there I do not see the tickets. I find this inconsistent.

But at least I got a response from a human.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

dianebrat said:


> They're just using Akamai services for their pipe, probably the edge services division, that's what Akamai does for companies.


Yea Akamai is HUGE. Block them from your router and good luck browsing the internet.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

rahnbo said:


> Yea Akamai is HUGE. Block them from your router and good luck browsing the internet.


In Soviet Cyberspace, Internet browses you.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

Try blocking google-analytics.com - same effect. Enough so that a lot of websites break because they forward all links to g-a who then forwards you back to the right page.

It's actually so bad that "no script" utilities like NoScript have to emulate Google Analytics in order to not break the web horribly.

Google and Akamai really are too big to fail.


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## 12ay7 (Apr 12, 2015)

Mikeguy said:


> \Also, isn't support and quality part of the reason why some users are content enough to pay Apple's prices?


That's why I pay them. I have Windows on my Mac Pro for doing QA on my web work, but otherwise, Windows, Android and so forth, are not even a part of my life.


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## 12ay7 (Apr 12, 2015)

dianebrat said:


> Apple is a unique in so many ways that you can't assign any standard business practices to them anymore, that's not a bad thing, but it means you can't compare to them anymore.


I think you can. Apple offers superior products, at a premium price, and I think you can easily compare them to ANY tech company. Apple does most things right. Most other companies do most things wrong.


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## Jed1 (Jun 18, 2013)

I managed to avoid any nasty cold or flu bug all winter but fell victim on the Monday after Easter. 
With the problems I am having with my support ticket not being answered and the rumor that support was moved to Colorado, I had a feverish night mare on Thursday that had me on the phone with Jeff Spicoli, who was TiVo Support. He kept saying everything was gnarly and kept hitting his head with his shoe and saying "that was my skull, I am so wasted. In the background it sounded like everybody was taking hits from a bong.
I woke up soaking wet from sweating and a feeling of relief that this was not real, at least I hope so. It is amazing what your mind comes up with as I guess that pot is legal in Colorado, my mind put that all together in my TiVo support nightmare.
I hope TiVo support doesn't get his bad.


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## dlfl (Jul 6, 2006)

That does it .... ignoring this thread!


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

dlfl said:


> That does it .... ignoring this thread!


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## RGM1138 (Oct 6, 1999)

unitron said:


> In Soviet Cyberspace, Internet browses you.


I know that line, but I can't remember what it's paraphrased from.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Apple does nothing right except marketing. There is nothing I couldn't achieve on a Win or Linux box better than on an Apple one.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

rahnbo said:


> Apple does nothing right except marketing. There is nothing I couldn't achieve on a Win or Linux box better than on an Apple one.


If that's the case, then Apple would have gone out of business ages ago.

You can only polish a turd so much. And if Apple's products are turds, but well marketed, then they'd be revealed as such and guess what? No one would buy from then ever again.

Take any product. Let's say the iPhone. It only did 3 things on launch - a phone (and SMS - it didn't even do MMS!), a web browser, and an iPod. Now, the web browser basically set the standard for web browsers, and the iPod was expected. But that's it. It missed a pile of features that you could find in a Nokia S60, or Blackberry, or Windows Mobile phone. And 8 years later, it's still selling strong. For a turd, the fact that after its release those three platforms have all bu vanished a few years later says a lot.

You can try to blame rabid fanboys, but you'll find the economics just do not work out because it's like a pyramid scheme - OK, maybe you released a turd (Apple has done that plenty of times throughout their history), but guess what? The turds don't sell. Try to find such wonders as the G4 Cube, mocked by many, full of technical problems, super high price, cracking issues, and ... not surprisingly, it sold few.

There isn't any amount of marketing that can polish turds repeatedly and continuously to keep getting customers in the door repeatedly. I'm sure Samsung knows all too well, given in 2014 how much they outspent Apple in marketing - at least their mobile products division.

I can't comment on the Watch - I don't want one, and it could be a turd for all I know since it hasn't been released yet.


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

RGM1138 said:


> I know that line, but I can't remember what it's paraphrased from.


It's called a "Russian Reversal", and usually starts with "In Soviet Russia..." and rightly or wrongly is most associated with comedian Yakov Smirnoff.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

Worf said:


> If that's the case, then Apple would have gone out of business ages ago.
> 
> You can only polish a turd so much. And if Apple's products are turds, but well marketed, then they'd be revealed as such and guess what? No one would buy from then ever again.
> 
> ...


I disagree but am too lazy to reply to every point. All I can say is Apple Computer Inc which nearly self imploded because they were all ****** bags that couldn't agree on what to eat for lunch managed to copy and yes polish every good idea that originated after their few good ideas. Once the marketing machine got rolling and other companies started innovating Apple just took those ideas, made them look pretty, and marketed them very, very well. I never said they had "turds" for product but what products they did and do have are more like finding someone elses turd, polishing it little, then stamping an Apple logo on it. Then like finding a white dog turd people are like "ohh a white turd, I'll pay extra."


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

Truth is its Billy Gates who saved Apple from itself. I couldn't stand him back then, but in the end he evolved and became a decent human being.

You would never think I would say such a thing, back then I used Digital Research Dr. DOS , Geoworks, Novell and OS/2. No Microsoft stuff.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

foghorn2 said:


> Truth is its Billy Gates who saved Apple from itself. I couldn't stand him back then, but in the end he evolved and became a decent human being.
> 
> You would never think I would say such a thing, back then I used Digital Research Dr. DOS , Geoworks, Novell and OS/2. No Microsoft stuff.


I used most of that too except I don't remember Geoworks. I do remember installing OS/2 all night long.


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

rahnbo said:


> I used most of that too except I don't remember Geoworks. I do remember installing OS/2 all night long.


Yeah, that was a biach to install.

Actually, I'm surprised Apple has not bought Tivo and Roku.
They are all what--35 miles from each other, I used to live in Cupertino, not far from all of them.
Imagine if they integrated Apple TV, Tivo and Roku into one awesome box. 
The box would not have a HDD, that would be an external add on pack.$$$

Apple would certainly excel finally in the TV STB world if they did such a thing.


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## rahnbo (Sep 12, 2010)

foghorn2 said:


> Yeah, that was a biach to install.
> 
> Actually, I'm surprised Apple has not bought Tivo and Roku.
> They are all what--35 miles from each other, I used to live in Cupertino, not far from all of them.
> ...


LOL but then we'd have white TiVo's


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

I always wondered what the Tivo mascot would look like if he were white


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## Barren Muffett (Apr 17, 2015)

foghorn2 said:


> Actually, I'm surprised Apple has not bought Tivo and Roku.


What exactly is Apple going to get from TiVo that they couldn't develop themselves for a billion dollars less?


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