# DirecTV+HD+TiVo Is there any hope at all????



## michman (Jan 27, 2008)

I have seen and heard a ton about DirecTV switching to MPEG-4 and not supporting Tivo-based DVR's anymore. Does anyone have any insight on how to get around this at all? I absolutely love Tivo and I really like my DirecTV, which means my favorite box in the room is a "DirecTiVo".

Basically I think I love my TiVo more, so it might mean moving to cable, which I really, really don't want to do. I have heard way to many bad things about cable.

So basically my question is; What can I do? Is there anything at all?

Thanks for the insight.


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## Pictor Guy (Apr 6, 2003)

FiOS? If you live in an area that has or will soon have FiOS you have a third option. DirecTV is years away from supporting TiVo again, if ever.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

There is virtually no chance that DirecTV will offer a new DirecTV DVR with TiVo service in the foreseeable future. They recently purchased former TiVo rival ReplayTV which suggests that they're either bolstering their own DVR technology or seeking to protect themselves from any potential patent suits from TiVo. Either case suggests that they have no plan of returning to TiVo for DVR capability.

The good news is that you can try a TiVo HD for 30 days risk free and most cable companys don't require any commitment to sign up and give them a try.

If you're like me you swore off cable a long time ago and you thought you'd never go back. Now the tables have turned and many cable companies are very competitive.

Here are some threads talking about the experience switching from DirecTV to cable. Of course the experience depends a lot on your cable provider, but the vast majority are positive.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=382398
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=382570
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=372481
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=363875
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=334212
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=345767


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

If Tivo is your number one thing and DirecTV doesn't have any programming you can't live without then cable or FIOS are your only choices for staying with Tivo. And if cable isn't that bad in your area you might be in for a treat. But if cable sucks in your area and DirecTV really is your only option then your only option is to get the new DirecTV DVRs not based on Tivo. DirecTV and Tivo aren't getting together again.


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## Heinrich (Feb 28, 2002)

I went through the same problem. I switched to Comcast / Series 3 as a result and have not regretted it - especially after getting SciFi HD and Discovery HD recently :up:


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

the day after there's peace in the middle east,


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## Scott D (Jun 17, 2001)

Heinrich said:


> I went through the same problem. I switched to Comcast / Series 3 as a result and have not regretted it - especially after getting SciFi HD and Discovery HD recently :up:


And let's not forget the lack of 2 year commitments either.

I also remember an ad talking about DirecTV indicating that there are no equipment to buy, ever. And you have to pay $200 to do a lease? Get real!


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## cowboys2002 (Jun 15, 2001)

Scott D said:


> And let's not forget the lack of 2 year commitments either.
> 
> I also remember an ad talking about DirecTV indicating that there are no equipment to buy, ever. And you have to pay $200 to do a lease? Get real!


When buying a major electronics item (Plasma, LCD, Series 3 or Tivo HD) aren't you hoping the item will last youe5 or more years?

With the Series 3 and Tivo HD, isn't there a monthly or annual programming commitment? And to get the "most" out of the Tivo, don't you need more than just OTA programming?


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Pictor Guy said:


> ...DirecTV is years away from supporting TiVo again, if ever.


You state that as if it is a well-known fact, which makes me wonder what your inside information is. DTV hasn't made any proclamations about their future with Tivo, even if it is pretty clear what horse they are backing right now.

So I am pretty sure they are leaving that option open. The success of the +DVR platform and the new HD strategy has probably cemented the near future as being +DVR-dominant, but nobody, likely including you, has any idea what Tivo and DTV might cook up in the future. The highest-level movers and shakers at DTV couldn't even predict their own future with that level of certainty, so I think the rest of us should dismiss your assessment out of hand as having little merit other than being an easy guess. Possibly accurate, but merely a guess, nonetheless. I can tell you without a doubt that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, too, but that's still really just a guess, as nothing is 100% as certain as your statement regarding DTV/Tivo.

In theory, Tivo could easily have hardware that they could ramp up in a matter of weeks, should there be some miracle agreement, which can never be ruled out. The S3 and the HR10 are both modular, meaning Tivo could easily implant a garden-variety DVB demodulator and MPEG-4 decoder into a new box that is 95% identical to either of the existing HD Tivo platforms (the HR10 only needs the decoder) and whip up a software release to recognize the new channels. Voila, instant DTivo. It would not be surprising to discover that they already have done the alpha-testing on that, either, as there may be numerous opportunities for vendor MPEG-4 delivery in the coming months and years.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

Scott D said:


> And let's not forget the lack of 2 year commitments either.
> 
> I also remember an ad talking about DirecTV indicating that there are no equipment to buy, ever. And you have to pay $200 to do a lease? Get real!


TiVo required me to commit to three years to get a good price. Now I think it's down to one year.

Which equals basically a commitment to cable, since it only works with cable and OTA...


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> TiVo required me to commit to three years to get a good price. Now I think it's down to one year.
> 
> Which equals basically a commitment to cable, since it only works with cable and OTA...


Tivo requires at least a one year commitment (they've never required three) but you have 30 days to try it and decide if you want to go through with it.

The nice thing about a "commitment to cable" is that you still have the option to switch providers or just go OTA if you like. Unlike the HR10, OTA works fine with no programming subscriptions. Also, if you can switch to cable now and switch over to FiOS when it becomes available later.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

All it would take is Tivo agreeing to an extra monthly charge(2 to 3 dollars a month?). This would limit Tivo's share of the DirectvDVR market(10&#37 but the alternative is no tivos at all in a few years with Directv. This would be a no loss offer for directv since it would increase their total subscriber base at no cost to them. 
For all we know Tivo has already discussed this with John Malone.


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## Captain Spaulding (Jan 2, 2001)

I'm in the same situation, Michman. I love DirecTV, and I love TiVo. I've been using the DirecTV DVR for quite some time now. It's really pretty good, but it is NOT a TiVo. I just purchased a TiVo HD for OTA, and I'm really struggling with whether or not to go back to cable. While my cable company (Time Warner) does not have nearly as many HD channels, they do have the ones that I watch most often. Still, it IS cable! I imagine I'll eventually sign up for cable and keep DirecTV for a while so that I can compare the two.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> Tivo requires at least a one year commitment (they've never required three) but you have 30 days to try it and decide if you want to go through with it.


They required 3 to get the $12.95/mo price.

1 year would've cost $6/mo more.



nrc said:


> The nice thing about a "commitment to cable" is that you still have the option to switch providers or just go OTA if you like. Unlike the HR10, OTA works fine with no programming subscriptions. Also, if you can switch to cable now and switch over to FiOS when it becomes available later.


Yup, I could switch to Comcast or Comcast, or maybe Comcast.

Most areas only have one cable company choice. No FIOS in Denver. It will never be available, we don't have verizon here.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

TyroneShoes said:


> In theory, Tivo could easily have hardware that they could ramp up in a matter of weeks, should there be some miracle agreement, which can never be ruled out.


A matter of weeks to ramp up a new hardware platform. 

They can't even ramp up bug fixes to their existing hardware.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> They required 3 to get the $12.95/mo price.
> 
> 1 year would've cost $6/mo more.


That's your choice. Today the price for one year is $12.95 per month and you can choose to pre-pay for one to three years to get a better price.


> Yup, I could switch to Comcast or Comcast, or maybe Comcast.
> 
> Most areas only have one cable company choice. No FIOS in Denver. It will never be available, we don't have verizon here.


I suppose I'm fortunate in that regard. But more and more states are taking away municiple franchise authority. Cable choice is coming to much of the country and TiVo allows you to keep the same features and interface regardless of your cable company.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

nrc said:


> Cable choice is coming to much of the *urban* country and TiVo allows you to keep the same features and interface regardless of your cable company.


FYP since much of the county is still rural and cable is and won't ever be an option.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> That's your choice. Today the price for one year is $12.95 per month and you can choose to pre-pay for one to three years to get a better price.


I know! I didn't sign up today. I signed up a year ago.

It doesn't even matter, I'm *just* saying that with TiVo & Cable there is a commitment as well!



nrc said:


> I suppose I'm fortunate in that regard. But more and more states are taking away municiple franchise authority. Cable choice is coming to much of the country and TiVo allows you to keep the same features and interface regardless of your cable company.


That's not even really true. The only exception is fios, which is available to a relatively small portion of the country.

Most of the country is served by one of a handful of huge giant cable companies.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> That's not even really true. The only exception is fios, which is available to a relatively small portion of the country.
> 
> Most of the country is served by one of a handful of huge giant cable companies.


It absolutely is true. I have a choice of two providers and niether of them is FiOS. Whether or not most of the country has a choice right now doesn't change the fact that many do and many more will in future.

The fact is that TiVo's recievers work with almost all cable providers. That's a benefit if you have an immediate choice of cable providers, if you have a choice in the future, or if you might move and switch providers. It's up to every individual to decide for themselves whether that benefit is important to them.


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

Mark Lopez said:


> A matter of weeks to ramp up a new hardware platform.
> 
> They can't even ramp up bug fixes to their existing hardware.


theres a vast difference between a 'bug fix,' and the aforementioned hardware platform, and taking the time to explain that to you to the point where you might understand it......well, id rather super glue my hand to a coffee mug.



just playin with ya mar-lo. you know i love ya!

--but then again, i like to burn the roof of my mouth.


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

nrc said:


> Cable choice is coming to much of the country and TiVo allows you to keep the same features and interface regardless of your cable company.





nrc said:


> Whether or not most of the country has a choice right now doesn't change the fact that many do and many more will in future.


"Many do and many more will" != "Much of the country". Your situation is far from normal. The majority won't have a choice anytime in the near future.


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## louiss3000 (Aug 5, 2003)

I did.


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## nrc (Nov 17, 1999)

Adam1115 said:


> "Many do and many more will" != "Much of the country". Your situation is far from normal. The majority won't have a choice anytime in the near future.


"Much" doesn't imply a majority and wasn't intended to.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

DirecTV will offer TiVo service again eventually. Soon, 50&#37; of the cable market will be offering TiVo boxes (Comcast and Cox). And possibly DirecTV's biggest competitor Echostar/Dish once they lose the appeals verdict.

Think DirecTV is going to want to not be able to offer its customers something that everyone else has to offer?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

BlackBetty said:


> DirecTV will offer TiVo service again eventually. Soon, 50% of the cable market will be offering TiVo boxes (Comcast and Cox). And possibly DirecTV's biggest competitor Echostar/Dish once they lose the appeals verdict.
> 
> Think DirecTV is going to want to not be able to offer its customers something that everyone else has to offer?


Why? Unless a significant number of people leave because of no Tivo then there is no reason to. And that just isn't happening and hasn't for over 3 years now.


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## Rych6896 (Nov 26, 2002)

If Time Warner ever gets the NFL ST I'm gone.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Rych6896 said:


> If Time Warner ever gets the NFL ST I'm gone.


Guess you'll be around for a while then.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

Tivo has experience producing boxes that work with DTVs access cards and satellite stream.

Tivo has experience producing boxes that are mpeg4 capable. I understand the TivoHD uses the chipset as the HR21.

I agree a few weeks is probably extremely optimistic but tivo wouldn't be starting from scratch. They'd have to produce a box that would work with a single wire multiswitch. I suspect DTV would license the technology, assuming they approved such a box.

That said there is absolutely no credible evidence that suggests tivo will have a new box for DTV in the foreseeable future.



Mark Lopez said:


> A matter of weeks to ramp up a new hardware platform.
> 
> They can't even ramp up bug fixes to their existing hardware.


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## blips (Oct 20, 1999)

Captain Spaulding said:


> I'm in the same situation, Michman. I love DirecTV, and I love TiVo. I've been using the DirecTV DVR for quite some time now. It's really pretty good, but it is NOT a TiVo. I just purchased a TiVo HD for OTA, and I'm really struggling with whether or not to go back to cable. While my cable company (Time Warner) does not have nearly as many HD channels, they do have the ones that I watch most often. Still, it IS cable! I imagine I'll eventually sign up for cable and keep DirecTV for a while so that I can compare the two.


What is the difference between DirecTv and cable now? As far as I'm concerned DirecTv IS another cable company now. Since they now require a 2 year commitment, the equipment is all DirecTv brand with no other manufacturers and on top of that you only can "lease" the equipment for the same price that you used to buy the equipment for and owned it. To me DirecTv used to be the alternative to cable, now they are just another cable company.


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## TonyTheTiger (Dec 22, 2006)

blips said:


> What is the difference between DirecTv and cable now? As far as I'm concerned DirecTv IS another cable company now. Since they now require a 2 year commitment, the equipment is all DirecTv brand with no other manufacturers and on top of that you only can "lease" the equipment for the same price that you used to buy the equipment for and owned it. To me DirecTv used to be the alternative to cable, now they are just another cable company.


Outside of the major cities, there is still a huge difference between what is offered by D* and the cable companies. For example, my local cableco wouldn't know HD if it hit them on the nose, let alone the fact that all channels except the specific "digital" channels are analog. Heck, even MTV is still transmitted in MONO sound! This means that the locals are almost unwatchable on a big screen.

Satellite is the ONLY choice I have here and D* has the edge over E* because of content.

Sadly, that means an eventual end to TiVo for me (my HR10 died last month, but I still have a Philips DSR708 in the office for my Slingbox), but it's that or nothing.

BTW, I'm too far away to receive anything OTA.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

Mark Lopez said:


> A matter of weeks to ramp up a new hardware platform. ...


Not to question your spotless record of performance here, but that's right, SH. It's called R&D. Preparation. Hedging a bet by making a small investment in the unpredictable, and it's done by smart technology companies all of the time, every day. So just keep on laughing.

F***nuts who ROTFLMAO over that sort of thing are also the ones who are for whatever reason ignorant of the fact that one-off prototypes (read: new platforms minimally-modified from existing HD Tivo platforms) already exist in the Tivo labs, and probably in the living rooms of DBS vendor CTOs, and then wonder why they got run over and left in the dust when the new product they thought was impossible to produce in a short time magically shows up on the shelves at BestBuy two months after the new agreement gets signed. Those are the same sort of once-laughing ilk who in the 70's bought stock in typewriter companies instead of IBM and Apple, and ended up in a Oakland basement apartment cooking over a hot plate rather than in a Palo Alto mansion.

I didn't postulate Tivo having that hardware all but ready just as a pipe dream, but as a scenario that is likely already true, if not at least definitely possible. Morphing existing modular Tivo platforms into that new platform isn't like trying to fashion the new Toyota Camry from scratch from a clay model. They don't have to reinvent the wheel, all of the parts are already readily available, and 98% of the hard work and code needed for such a platform was done long ago. IOW, it's not ramping up a "new" platform, it's ramping up a slightly-modified "old" platform that most of the legwork has already been done on.

Scoff at your own peril. Reality, which is apparently completely quite different than your pedestrian perception of reality, is scoffing right back at you.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

TyroneShoes said:


> Not to question your spotless record of performance here, but that's right, SH. It's called R&D. Preparation. Hedging a bet by making a small investment in the unpredictable, and it's done by smart technology companies all of the time, every day. So just keep on laughing.


are you suggesting that a small company that has yet to turn a profit is spending time and money prepping a DVR for Directv when Directv doesn't even currently talk to them? I know I must be reading your post wrong.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

No one knows if "ongoing negotiations" with Tivo includes discussion about an HDTivo upgrade or not. No one knows what Malone's view on the subject is. It's been 6 months since he was supposed to take over Directv. We're still just waiting.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Cudahy said:


> No one knows if "ongoing negotiations" with Tivo includes discussion about an HDTivo upgrade or not. No one knows what Malone's view on the subject is. It's been 6 months since he was supposed to take over Directv. We're still just waiting.


Is "take over Directv" the right phrase? Didn't he only buy 40% or something like that?


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> Is "take over Directv" the right phrase? Didn't he only buy 40% or something like that?


It was a stock swap... for around 33% of DirecTV Group.


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## slaponte (Apr 6, 2005)

Sorry but I have a question (that probably has been answered in many threads by now, but how do you search for this?)... What keeps Tivo today from producing a box that plugs between the DirecTv receiver and my TV??

When I first got Tivo I had Adelphia cable.The Tivo box plugged between the Adelphia cable box and my TV. I used the infrared thingys to change channels on the box. So, why can't this be done again? Yeah, is not a SatBox+DVR unit, but it would do nicely for many users. I still have my old Tivos on the non-HD locations, and they work just like that (well, I got the USB thingy to change channels, but the rest is the same).

I understand DirecTv and Tivo divorced, so I expect no more DirecTv+Tivo units, but why can't Tivo produce a box I can put AFTER the satellite box and BEFORE my TV, on the HDMI line??


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

DirecTV has to give approval for the Data Encryption aspects of their signal to TiVo.

Thus DirecTV has to approve any system that access their datastream.

----

As for a SA TiVo, AFTER the DirecTV box.
They have that with their current systems.... For Standard Definition.

For High Definition, the cost would be very high, to encode live stream, HD content via component connections, and then with HDMI... it may eventually not be possible with content protection flags, ect...


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Which it seems that Directv SHOULD be required by the FCC to allow this.... similar to the FCC mandating the cable companies having to use cablecard.



ebonovic said:


> DirecTV has to give approval for the Data Encryption aspects of their signal to TiVo.
> 
> Thus DirecTV has to approve any system that access their datastream.
> 
> ...


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

magnus said:


> Which it seems that Directv SHOULD be required by the FCC to allow this.... similar to the FCC mandating the cable companies having to use cablecard.


Call your congress person.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

so, in other words, there's no hope, right?


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

magnus said:


> Which it seems that Directv SHOULD be required by the FCC to allow this.... similar to the FCC mandating the cable companies having to use cablecard.


Even if they did, that doesn't mean a company like TiVo would develop a DVR for it.

DirecTV only has around 16 million subscribers (vs. 65 million cable subs).

And even if they did decide to do it, it would take YEARS for such a box to be developed.


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## trex527 (Jul 16, 2007)

It hurts my heart but I had to make that plunge and go with the hr-20 just a short while ago.I just ordered me a tv online(taxes)and I already have the 20 in my living room while my hr-10 was in the basement but D* gave us a deal on two dvr's.I just wish that D* and tivo would just kiss and make up but even if they did,I would be out of so much money because I would have to have it.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> are you suggesting that a small company that has yet to turn a profit is spending time and money prepping a DVR for Directv when Directv doesn't even currently talk to them? I know I must be reading your post wrong.


Yes you are.

DTV and Tivo may not be talking turkey about a new DVR, but they have a long-term service agreement so they are definitely working together, and will be at least through 2010. But that, even if it were untrue, is beside the point. MPEG-4 is the future of vendor delivery (DTV just got on the bus first) and Tivo should be savvy enough to see their own future, which will in some ways be tied to that if they ever DO want to turn a profit.

I am not saying that they are prepping a DVR for DTV. Obviously, that is not the case. What I am saying is that they have likely done the R&D to create one-offs of DVRs that will work with DTV signals, as well as other vendors. Tivo is very modular, and the differences between the current Tivo HD DVRs and one that would actually work for DTV or DISH or cable could be minimal, consisting of as little as an off-the-shelf module swap or two and a few lines of code being changed. IOW, much more simple a task than many have speculated about.

It's important in business to be ready when opportunity knocks, and to have a plan to ramp up quickly if needed. It's a strong facet of survival strategy. The "time and money" is a relatively small investment to make when the goal is to sell something that otherwise doesn't exist to a cable MSO or DBS vendor in a global market.

If you can plop down a working prototype on the desk of the CEO of "SkyScandanavia", for instance, that tiny investment may turn into gazillions of STBs. If you can't, the hardware vendor that can probably has a seriously significant leg up on you. I would not be at all surprised if that were not strikingly similar to the actual scenario that played out when DTV and Tivo first approached each other about a partnership just a few years ago.

The probability of a HD Tivo for MPEG-4 at DTV is very slim. But those in business that guess wrong about their competitors' readiness do so at their own peril, and consequently don't last very long.


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## slaponte (Apr 6, 2005)

But wait, you went off to fast. If the Tivo is between the DirecTv or any other receiver/decoder and the TV, isn't that a standard HDMI signal? I am not asking Tivo to decode DirecTv's signal. By the time the signal leaves the DirecTv box via HDMI towards the TV it should be a standard format signal that any HDMI input TV can receive, no??


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## spyhunter (Feb 1, 2003)

If only they could produce a TiVo that could record 2 HD component inputs at the same time, but they don't even have one that can record 2 S-Video inputs at the same time, so this will probably never happen...

SH


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## Adam1115 (Dec 15, 2003)

spyhunter said:


> If only they could produce a TiVo that could record 2 HD component inputs at the same time, but they don't even have one that can record 2 S-Video inputs at the same time, so this will probably never happen...
> 
> SH


Even if they could, by the time it would come out component will be obsolete. Everything is going HDMI.


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## CKNA (Nov 8, 2004)

There will be no new D* Tivo ever. D* just bought Replay TV and that pretty much killed any possibility of new D* HD Tivo. Replay TV was better than Tivo anyway, and if D* will implement those features in their DVR's it will blow away Tivo completely. They hold many patents so Tivo can't sue D* like they did E*.


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## Cudahy (Mar 21, 2001)

Tivo may have to choose between having no directv customers in a few years or settling for a niche of a few hundred thousand to a million that would be willing to pay a few dollars a month more for a Tivo interface over the DirectDVR. Whether it takes a few months or a year is secondary.


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## Mark Lopez (Jan 1, 2000)

slaponte said:


> But wait, you went off to fast. If the Tivo is between the DirecTv or any other receiver/decoder and the TV, isn't that a standard HDMI signal? I am not asking Tivo to decode DirecTv's signal. By the time the signal leaves the DirecTv box *via HDMI towards the TV it should be a standard format signal that any HDMI input TV can receive, no??*


Yes and no. Yes, the HDMI standard is there. No, one of the main 'purposes' of HDMI is for copy protection. Thus any box that intercepts the HDMI signal for the purpose of recording, would be in violation of some law.


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## drumdude (Dec 25, 2007)

I left DirecTV for Time Warner Cable to get HD Tivo. Worst mistake I ever made! In a year these HD Tivo's go in the garbage and I switch back.


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## magnus (Nov 12, 2004)

Can I have them when you do? I think the landfills are full enough of Directv boxes as it is... for good Tivo boxes to be there too.



drumdude said:


> I left DirecTV for Time Warner Cable to get HD Tivo. Worst mistake I ever made! In a year these HD Tivo's go in the garbage and I switch back.


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## cyberbeach (Nov 29, 2002)

drumdude said:


> I left DirecTV for Time Warner Cable to get HD Tivo. Worst mistake I ever made! In a year these HD Tivo's go in the garbage and I switch back.


A friend of mine who did what you did (leave DirecTV for Time Warner) tells me I should follow him to Time Warner.

From your point of view, what's the comparison between Time Warner Tivo and DirecTV DVR (non-Tivo) that makes DirecTV a better choice?

TIA...


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## carp5500 (Sep 16, 2007)

Have Comcast cable right now, very glitchy. Had the DirecTv installation guys in this morning and they told me their service wasn't compatible with my Tivo Series 3 boxes. Now I have Verizon Fios scheduled for install next month, they assured me they work well with Tivo, keeping my fingers crossed...


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

cyberbeach said:


> From your point of view, what's the comparison between Time Warner Tivo and DirecTV DVR (non-Tivo) that makes DirecTV a better choice?
> 
> TIA...


About 85 additional HD channels. And each additional DVR costs me a whopping extra $5 a month on my Directv bill.

When the power goes out here (hurricanes) my Directv system keeps going off the generator. Cable just goes down.


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## Markman07 (Jul 18, 2001)

HiDefGator said:


> About 85 additional HD channels. And each additional DVR costs me a whopping extra $5 a month on my Directv bill.
> 
> When the power goes out here (hurricanes) my Directv system keeps going off the generator. Cable just goes down.


I have never been through a hurricane nor do I ever plan to be through one. We don't get many up here in the upper midwest. But if the power goes off due to a hurricane shouldn't your TV be packed into the back of a truck by this point?


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

Cable can go out for days at a time due to wind or Thunderstorm and "we'll fix it when we get to it since thousands of people are out" attitude. DirecTV keeps on humming in the meantime. Nuff said.


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## HiDefGator (Oct 12, 2004)

Markman07 said:


> I have never been through a hurricane nor do I ever plan to be through one. We don't get many up here in the upper midwest. But if the power goes off due to a hurricane shouldn't your TV be packed into the back of a truck by this point?


You can't pack up 21 million Florida households and drive them to Tennessee every time a hurricane thinks about heading this way. By the time you know for sure it is coming your way it is too late to leave.


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## jimb726 (Jan 4, 2007)

HiDefGator said:


> You can't pack up 21 million Florida households and drive them to Tennessee every time a hurricane thinks about heading this way. By the time you know for sure it is coming your way it is too late to leave.


I used to live in Richmond and in fall of 2003 (I think) Hurricaine Isabel came through and decided to track west when it was supposed to bounce of the coast. Even though we were without power and phones for 10 days, I had my DirecTv up and running the next day off of generator. We were the life of the neighborhood at that time. I remember after the storm, cable was out for almost a month for repairs. I only know that because I had Comcast ISP and could not get on the internet for a month. It sucked.


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

HiDefGator said:


> You can't pack up 21 million Florida households and drive them to Tennessee every time a hurricane thinks about heading this way.


I think it's commendable the way you Florida folks suck it up, get tough, and deal with it. You folks got balls. Certain other cities/states could learn a few things from they way you do things.

You seriously get signal in a hurricane? Even if it hits you directly? If so, that's awesome.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

HiDefGator said:


> You can't pack up 21 million Florida households and drive them to Tennessee every time a hurricane thinks about heading this way. By the time you know for sure it is coming your way it is too late to leave.


Which is why I don't live in Galveston, TX anymore (I puckered through a cat4 hurricane and numerous tropical storms, and bailed on the threat of more).

And you are exactly right. "Too late" is the operative term. But that is also exactly the attitude that will get thousands of folks killed one day, either in Galveston, Tampa, or another location where you can get stuck trying to get out too late, typically because you ran last time for nothing and don't want to bother this time.

The bottom line is that if you choose not to evacuate it is just a game of Russian Roulette. It's not a matter of if, but of when that tragedy will happen, just like it was a matter of "when" the levees in N.O. broke.

Over six thousand people perished in the storm of 1900 in Galveston because they couldn't see it coming and had no way to leave quickly. That is the functional equivalent of just not leaving, and so due to population growth if 1 in 3 don't evacuate, twice that many (who refuse to evacuate) could perish next time. Correction, WILL perish.


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## spyhunter (Feb 1, 2003)

What is the problem of creating an HDMI input TiVo, the signal would be digital and therefore be recorded digitally just like a cable card right? What would the copyright problems be? TiVo deals with all sorts of copyright problems, so why don't they just make this box? Maybe they are working on it?

SH


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## CrashHD (Nov 10, 2006)

A solution so elegantly simple, and effective as that could only have been stopped by the work of a lawyer...just guessing here.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

spyhunter said:


> What is the problem of creating an HDMI input TiVo, the signal would be digital and therefore be recorded digitally just like a cable card right? What would the copyright problems be? TiVo deals with all sorts of copyright problems, so why don't they just make this box? Maybe they are working on it?
> 
> SH


Because Hollywood doesn't allow it. DRM and all. It's not that it's technical impossible (although expensive) it's just against the DRM. I think we all hate DRM including me, but it is what it is.


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## avNeophyte (Mar 25, 2004)

shibby191 said:


> Because Hollywood doesn't allow it. DRM and all. It's not that it's technical impossible (although expensive) it's just against the DRM. I think we all hate DRM including me, but it is what it is.


I suspect bandwidth would be an issue. I don't believe the data on the HDMI interface is compressed. The disk storage requirements would be enormous unless the HDMI TiVo recorder had extra HW ($$$) to do video compression.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

avNeophyte said:


> I suspect bandwidth would be an issue. I don't believe the data on the HDMI interface is compressed. The disk storage requirements would be enormous unless the HDMI TiVo recorder had extra HW ($$$) to do video compression.


The only reason HDMI exists is for copy protection. It's really that simple.


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## TyroneShoes (Sep 6, 2004)

avNeophyte said:


> I suspect bandwidth would be an issue. I don't believe the data on the HDMI interface is compressed. The disk storage requirements would be enormous unless the HDMI TiVo recorder had extra HW ($$$) to do video compression.


Bingo.

HDMI is 1.5 GB per second, and happens after decoding and before d/a conversion (PVRs read/write to the HDD while the signal is still compressed). A 1TB drive would give you about 11 minutes of HD storage in such a system, which gives us an idea how heavy the compression is.


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## 1Dave1 (Jan 8, 2003)

per a unnamed DirecTV high UP employee:
*Negotiations between DirecTV and TiVo ABRUPTLY ENDED in a walkout aproxamatly 6 weeks ago and there is NO need for further negotiations with TiVo since the DirecTV Plus DVR has exceeded there expectations.

It was made clear that ALL currently subscribed DVRs with TiVo will CONTINUE to be supported (authorized) UNTIL that TiVo DVR ceases functioning with NO end date given. Also there will NOT be any further or future software updates or upgrades created for the TiVo dvrs since all focus is now on the new plus dvr.

When the TiVo dvr ceases functioning or issues arise the customer will have no option other than to replace it with there current dvr.

Also noting that most customers really like the new DirecTV Plus DVR and mostly the only complaints come from customers whom previously used the DirecTV DVR with TiVo. The result is that future negotiations are just not needed as the new Plus DVR is getting better every day.

When the dtv rep was asked:
Why a customer is forced to delete a series link in order to add a new one when the limit of 50 is reached?

the dtv responce was: 
The customers that make this complaint previously had a DirecTV with TiVo DVR which does NOT limit the number of season passes you can have. Adding that most customers whom never had the DVR's with TiVo doesn't know that more than 50 are even possable so there are few customer complaints about this issue.*

Since the hard drive will most likely be the first to fail in the TiVo, I suspect dtv feels that most TiVo dvrs will be out of the system within the next few years, so they will just "wait it out" and leave the customer with no choice when the time comes. (unless the customer even know they can easily fix there TiVo (self or ship it off to a web site like weeknees) and still keep using it!)

I was also told that there is a forum ON the dtv web site which is reviewed often by dtv and will get must faster results than sending e-mails or even the ce software forum for dtv reciever firmware updates.


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## 1Dave1 (Jan 8, 2003)

For those whom do not know

*The new dtv plus dvr LIMITS "season passes/series links" to 50* !, if you want to add one more it tells you that you MUST delete one first! (my TiVo currently has 104 on it!) Heck, the various Nascar programs uses up about 11 of the Series Links and thats not adding in the different networks that will carry races through out the year (espn,abc,tnt,fx,fox,speed) theres 6 more! And as of now I have to keep track week to week of whom is telecasting the race and plan to delete the series link as to add the new channel so I dont miss recording the program!

*The Search function is crap compared to TiVo's!*
I was also informed in my conversation with the dtv rep that the engineers are limited in what can be done with the search function due to TiVo. Nothing further was said about it.

I feel that since TiVo has won there court case I see software licencing in the near future for all dvr makers whom will have to end up paying/making deals with TiVo! 
DtV should have went that route and they would have a MUCH better dvr right now instead of the "fix and patch weekly" like they do now!


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

Your first part:

Limit to 50... yes that is true

Search Function is "crap"..
As for the DTV rep... they have zero clue on what the capabilities are on the system, as to what the developers are "limited" to.

In fact, if you follow what they are doing with the search... they are in the processes of adding multiple advanced search options, that not even TiVo has.

In your opinion, what is specifically is "crap" about the DVR+ search, as compared to TiVo's.

Umm...where are they "fix/patch" weekly.
The last national update was 2/12 (which was 2 weeks ago). (and that was because they needed to get the updated audio features for NASCAR HOTPASS in before the start of the season)
The one before that: 1/16 (a month)
The one before that: 11/07 (2+ months)


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

1Dave1 said:


> per a unnamed DirecTV high UP employee:
> *Negotiations between DirecTV and TiVo ABRUPTLY ENDED in a walkout aproxamatly 6 weeks ago and there is NO need for further negotiations with TiVo since the DirecTV Plus DVR has exceeded there expectations.
> 
> It was made clear that ALL currently subscribed DVRs with TiVo will CONTINUE to be supported (authorized) UNTIL that TiVo DVR ceases functioning with NO end date given. Also there will NOT be any further or future software updates or upgrades created for the TiVo dvrs since all focus is now on the new plus dvr.
> ...


My response to that...

Provide the name of the person you spoke with...
As most of what you have posted here, is nonsense fud.

The forums you are referring to:

http://forums.directv.com
http://www.dbstalk.com


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## rickmeoff (Aug 25, 2006)

ebonovic said:


> My response to that...
> 
> Provide the name of the person you spoke with...
> As most of what you have posted here, is nonsense fud.
> ...


i believe he spoke with 'larry' over at dtv.


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## shibby191 (Dec 24, 2007)

1Dave1 said:


> Heck, the various Nascar programs uses up about 11 of the Series Links and thats not adding in the different networks that will carry races through out the year (espn,abc,tnt,fx,fox,speed) theres 6 more! And as of now I have to keep track week to week of whom is telecasting the race and plan to delete the series link as to add the new channel so I dont miss recording the program!


With the new search features (that include the ability to record on just certain channels) that are in current CE testing you should be able to convert those 17 series links down to 1, maybe 2 autorecord searchs (i.e. Wishlist).


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## ebonovic (Jul 24, 2001)

rickmeoff said:


> i believe he spoke with 'larry' over at dtv.


Get-R-Done


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-05/status-quo-for-directv-tivo/

I think we continue to see a few things  I think we have a constructive relationship. We are not doing a lot in all honesty but I think we have an honest dialog that I think is sincere about seeing if there are things that make sense for us. I mean, at our core, the heart of our business is going to continue to get driven by set-top box technologies weve developed that are at the core of the  as we launch VOD and whole home solutions and broadband connectivity and all these things, they are all tied into set-top box software that is deployed and operated by us. That doesnt mean there arent things we can do with TiVo and if we can find a way to crack it, I think weve always been open to an intelligent relationship if there was one.


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## newsposter (Aug 18, 2002)

michman said:


> So basically my question is; What can I do? Is there anything at all?
> 
> Thanks for the insight.


you can wait for late 2009 and get one


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