# Extended warranty -- TiVo vs Best Buy



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

I have a question about Best Buy's extended warrantee on devices like minis.

One of my two minis (both over 90 days old, both under TiVo's extended warranty) stopped outputting video. Working with TiVo, they're calling it dead, and are trying to send out an RMA. Apparently their RMA system has been borked for the last two days, so mine's in limbo at the moment.

This one warranty incident "consumes" the entire TiVo extended warranty for this mini. The replacement they're sending will have its own 90 day warranty, and I'm free to purchase another $40 TiVo extended warranty if I want to extend coverage on it for three years.

That surprised me. Shame on me for not reading the details of their extended warrantee before buying it, but I can't recall any other electronic manufacturer's extended warranty that is only good for one use. 

My question is this. From reading the forums, I see that Best Buy offers a $20 4-year warranty on minis. Does that warranty work the same -- i.e. it's only good for one replacement, and then it's considered "consumed", where it offers no more value.

Thanks!


----------



## berg0449 (Nov 5, 2011)

Good question.

I have a question to add if there is difference: If you have Lifetime service will it be moved to the new unit? I am under the impression if you do it thru Tivo the Lifetime service would be moved. I would not expect the same to happen if you did it thru Best Buy.


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Thinking that TiVo wouldn't transfer Lifetime Service if I got a replacement through Best Buy was one of the reasons I went with the TiVo extended warranty.

According to TiVo's webpage below (emphasis mine), they would transfer Lifetime if Best Buy replaces it.



> Product Lifetime Service is valid only for the life of the TiVo DVR for which it was originally purchased and can be transferred to another DVR only in one of the following situations:
> 
> You activated the TiVo DVR with Product Lifetime Service less than 30 days ago.
> The TiVo DVR was exchanged under warranty, either through the *retailer* or the manufacturer. (Proof of this exchange will be required).
> The TiVo DVR was activated under an incorrect service number.


http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/20


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I believe that in both cases they will only transfer lifetime once. So even if you get the BestBuy warranty that will replace the unit an unlimited number of times I think TiVo will only allow you to transfer the service once. So I'm not sure the BB warranty provides much more value in that department.


----------



## sbiller (May 10, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I believe that in both cases they will only transfer lifetime once. So even if you get the BestBuy warranty that will replace the unit an unlimited number of times I think TiVo will only allow you to transfer the service once. So I'm not sure the BB warranty provides much more value in that department.


I recently executed a Best Buy warranty on an XL4. Its a one-time use item. They do offer to sell you a new warranty (~$59 - 4 yrs) on the replacement box).


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

Thanks for the update.

Another thing that surprised was that since my mini was 90+ days old, the rep told me that I didn't have the extended warranty, it would have cost $49 to get my mini replaced under the included one-year hardware warranty. That covered the shipping and "labor". 

Wow. 50% of the MSRP to replace under the one-year hardware warranty?


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aristoBrat said:


> Thanks for the update.
> 
> Another thing that surprised was that since my mini was 90+ days old, the rep told me that I didn't have the extended warranty, it would have cost $49 to get my mini replaced under the included one-year hardware warranty. That covered the shipping and "labor".
> 
> Wow. 50% of the MSRP to replace under the one-year hardware warranty?


BUT if you have Lifetime on your Mini TiVo will also xfer that, if you don't have lifetime I would just purchase a new Mini ($89 at Amazon) and you will not have to pay shipping back to TiVo and you will be getting a new Mini.


----------



## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lessd said:


> BUT if you have Lifetime on your Mini TiVo will also xfer that, if you don't have lifetime I would just purchase a new Mini ($89 at Amazon) and you will not have to pay shipping back to TiVo and you will be getting a new Mini.


I think if you are monthly you have to get it replaced and not buy another or you will have to continue making monthly payments on the dead unit, until you get past the 1 year commitment period.


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

lessd said:


> BUT if you have Lifetime on your Mini TiVo will also xfer that


I guess my expectation (from having dealt with other consumer electronic manufactures) is that if their device fails during the included hardware warranty period, the replacement cost would be minimal -- like return shipping.

I understand that they have to move Lifetime to the replacement box, but when a box fails within its one-year warranty, that seems to me like it's _the least_ that TiVo could to. Adding that as some sort of 'value add' feature and bundling it up in a $49 "warranty replacement fee" just rubs me the wrong way.

If my mini was outside of the included one-year warranty, this $49 fee wouldn't irritate me as much. Can't wait to see what they charge for out-of-warranty fees.


----------



## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

aristoBrat said:


> Can't wait to see what they charge for out-of-warranty fees.


Probably the full $99 with the only bonus being the ability to transfer lifetime. After 3 years they wont even do that. At least on the current Premiere boxes if it's past 3 years you have to pay full MSRP for the box plus a $299 lifetime transfer fee, so it's only a slight discount over buying one brand new.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I am curious, does Best Buy send regular TiVo units out for repair (like if the power supply or hard drive is acting up) or do they simply swap it out or apply credit towards a newer model?


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jmpage2 said:


> I am curious, does Best Buy send regular TiVo units out for repair (like if the power supply or hard drive is acting up) or do they simply swap it out or apply credit towards a newer model?


NO they just replace the unit after that I don't know what happens to the old TiVo.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

Ah, thanks. They probably just send it to the warranty company to deal with, it might wind up being a refurb after repair.... or, they just write it off and destroy it.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I believe that in both cases they will only transfer lifetime once. So even if you get the BestBuy warranty that will replace the unit an unlimited number of times I think TiVo will only allow you to transfer the service once. So I'm not sure the BB warranty provides much more value in that department.


BB does not replace the unit an unlimited number of times. First they try to fix it. If the unit can't be fixed and is replaced then the warranty is gone. You have to get a new warranty on the new unit.

This is their policy now on electronics. Now whether they actually try to fix it or not I guess it depends. I've had them fix a couple of electronic devices I had under warranty(which took a few weeks). They did not replace them. But they were not TiVos. But if the unit is replaced, the old warranty is used up.

The reason I try to get the BestBuy warranties is because of the length. They offer a 4 year extended warranty while the longest TiVo offers is 3 years. And I don't expect to actually be using the extended warranty since I've never had a serious problem with 24+ TiVos. But having the extended warranty helps with the resale of the TiVo since the new owner will have peace of mind knowing that if there is an issue they will be covered for a period of time for any issues that could crop up.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

You have actually had BB attempt a repair on a TiVo? My understanding is that BB does repair on some items and simple replacement on other. Usually more specialized electronics such as iPads, etc, cannot be repaired by them and must be replaced.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

Best advice is really not to buy an extended warranty at all.

I feel like the computer in War Games.



> Joshua: A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.


It's insurance. Think of insurance companies as casinos except with a much bigger house edge.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jmpage2 said:


> You have actually had BB attempt a repair on a TiVo? My understanding is that BB does repair on some items and simple replacement on other. Usually more specialized electronics such as iPads, etc, cannot be repaired by them and must be replaced.


I've not used the BestBuy extended warranty on a TiVo. But I did with a combo HD DVD/BD player and a BD player since the policy change.

I only know they had changed their policy. In the old days you always got a new item for replacement, or the original value on a gift card if they didn't sell the item or like item any more. But once they changed the policy, getting a new item or a gift card was not always going to happen.

BestBuy has changed alot of things over the last couple of years that have not been better for the customers.


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

waynomo said:


> It's insurance. Think of insurance companies as casinos except with a much bigger house edge.


To each their own, but my experience with first-generation consumer electronics (like the mini) has been that the extended warranties tend to not favor the house nearly as much.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

aristoBrat said:


> To each their own, but my experience with first-generation consumer electronics (like the mini) has been that the extended warranties tend to not favor the house nearly as much.


I am not going to disagree with your statement. But there is still a huge house edge.

The Mini costs $100. It's one thing to take out insurance on big ticket items that you can't afford to replace (house and car come to mind) but on a $100 item that is just absurd IMO.

TiVo is offering their 3 year extended warranty for $40. What percentage of mini's do you think will break in 3 years? Forget the break even point of 40%. Do you even think it is close to 20%? I would bet it is closer to 5%.

Best Buy has a 4 year warranty for $20. Even if the failure rate is as high as 10% this is still a big edge for the warranty company and Best Buy. (They all get a piece.) Why do you think Best Buy and other companies try so hard to sell extended warranties? It's because there is a huge profit margin on them.

Now if you want the security and piece of mind that is fine. Great, it is all about sleeping better at night, right? Just understand that financially it is not a smart play even for a new consumer electronic device. (Especially one with no moving parts.)

Suggestion:

Setup a poll here. Ask TiVo Mini owners if their Mini has broken and needed to be replaced/repaired and see what the breakdown is. My only fear is that if not worded right you might be more likely to get people to respond who have had a problem. But still, might be interesting to see what happens.


----------



## nooneuknow (Feb 5, 2011)

I've always thought of extended warranties as a form of gambling, and in cases of other insurance (not extended warranties), where it is required, a form of something that would be illegal, if it wasn't gov't sanctioned.

It seems like bad luck to say it, but I've never had an extended warranty pay for itself, and never wished I had bought it when I didn't.

In order for it to work, it has to favor the house. As long as it remains available, and the terms remain the same, I consider that proof-positive that the house is winning.

YMMMV, and I'm certain there are plenty who have bought it and it did pay for itself, and then some. However, like gambling, you winnings has to come from somebody else's losses, who chose to play (get the warranty), and never used it.

It's when you see major changes in the policies, that's when you can be certain the house was losing, or just not happy with their winnings (profits).


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

waynomo said:


> I am not going to disagree with your statement. But there is still a huge house edge.
> 
> The Mini costs $100. It's one thing to take out insurance on big ticket items that you can't afford to replace (house and car come to mind) but on a $100 item that is just absurd IMO.
> 
> ...


$20 for four years I thought was a no brainer. $5 a year sounds like a cheap way to cover the product for four years. Plus it can be transferred to a new owner. So if a new Mini model appears in that time period, I will be able to transfer the extended warranty to the new owner when I sell the Minis.

I see no difference in getting an extended warranty on a $2k item or a $100 item. The extended warranty costs more anyway as the item price increases.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

waynomo said:


> I am not going to disagree with your statement. But there is still a huge house edge.
> 
> The Mini costs $100. It's one thing to take out insurance on big ticket items that you can't afford to replace (house and car come to mind) but on a $100 item that is just absurd IMO.
> 
> ...


It does make some small sense for a Lifetime Mini *BUT* I have never had the mother board go bad on any of the 70 or so TiVos I (and my friends) have owned over the years, and the Mini has no Hard drive and must have a small PS as it uses only about 5 watts, I would give the chance of failure less than .01% except in a power surge when most of your electronics will blow out.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

lessd said:


> . . . I would give the chance of failure less than .01% except in a power surge when most of your electronics will blow out.


And this would be covered under your homeowners policy.


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

lessd said:


> It does make some small sense for a Lifetime Mini *BUT* I have never had the mother board go bad on any of the 70 or so TiVos I (and my friends) have owned over the years, and the Mini has no Hard drive and must have a small PS as it uses only about 5 watts, I would give the chance of failure less than .01% except in a power surge when most of your electronics will blow out.


Throw me in the .01% club -- one of my minis (which has always been connected to the battery side of a UPS) stopped displaying video earlier this week.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I see no difference in getting an extended warranty on a $2k item or a $100 item. The extended warranty costs more anyway as the item price increases.


I wouldn't recommend insurance on a $2k item either. (For household items of this value the item can be repaired for a few hundred bucks or so also.) However many (reputable) car insurance agents recommend taking collision coverage off your car when it's value gets low. (I think usually between $1500 and $3500. [Not a car insurance expert so someone else can speak to this more precisely if they like.])

But I think you are saying that there is no difference in insurance on a $10k item or $100 item. (Forgive me if you don't think that.) There is one major difference. Most of us can afford to replace or repair a $100 item. We can assume the risk. Most of us can't afford to replace or repair a $10k item. (Or at least not without significant hardship.) We can't afford to assume the risk so we pay a premium to an insurance company to assume the risk for that. They make a profit off of that premium. Even if the bank didn't require it I would still want insurance on my car or my home. If my home burnt down and I didn't have a mortgage that would still be a pretty big financial disaster. My $100 Mini not working; not so much. 

Also, the cost of the insurance in the case of a house or a car are a *lot less* as a percentage based on what they are covering. My home insurance is less than a 1/2 a percent of the value. For my car it is less than 1% of the value. So to me big difference there.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

aristoBrat said:


> Throw me in the .01% club -- one of my minis (which has always been connected to the battery side of a UPS) stopped displaying video earlier this week.


But that should still be under manufacturer's warranty, yes? Isn't it a full year on the Mini with parts and labor?

Also keep in mind that many manufacturer warranties are doubled with certain credit cards. So another reason not to pay double for something that doesn't make financial sense.


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

waynomo said:


> But that should still be under manufacturer's warranty, yes? Isn't it a full year on the Mini with parts and labor?


90 day full warranty, one-year hardware warranty.

After day 90, TiVo charges $49.99 to replace the mini under the one-year hardware warranty.


----------



## waynomo (Nov 9, 2002)

aristoBrat said:


> 90 day full warranty, one-year hardware warranty.
> 
> After day 90, TiVo charges $49.99 to replace the mini under the one-year hardware warranty.


Ah, didn't read the details. Actually the way it is displayed on the TiVo site is a bit misleading.

It says this, "TiVo Mini comes with a 1-year limited warranty" here https://www3.tivo.com/store/mini.do. Below it looks like just details on extended warranties. You have to click there to see the details of the regular warranty.

This still doesn't change my feelings about extended warranties. If anything, the fact that you can replace it for $50 instead of having to shell out $100 makes my argument more compelling. (At least to me.)


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

Everyone can make their own choices. Sometimes i get the extended warranties on products, sometimes I let the credit card double the warranty term, and sometimes I don't get the extended warranties. But on items that I plan on selling down the road, I always get the extended warranty to help with the resale of the item. That is the main reason I always buy the extended warranties on all my TiVos. Since I typically sell them within a few years.

Now that might be less likely with the TiVo Mini, but who knows when they plan on coming out with a replacement? I just know that if/when they do, I will be selling my older TiVo Minis and getting the newer ones.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aristoBrat said:


> Throw me in the .01% club -- one of my minis (which has always been connected to the battery side of a UPS) stopped displaying video earlier this week.


In the first 0-12 months you do have infant mortality that may be more than .01%, I was referring to year 1 and after.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

waynomo said:


> Ah, didn't read the details. Actually the way it is displayed on the TiVo site is a bit misleading.
> 
> It says this, "TiVo Mini comes with a 1-year limited warranty" here https://www3.tivo.com/store/mini.do. Below it looks like just details on extended warranties. You have to click there to see the details of the regular warranty.
> 
> This still doesn't change my feelings about extended warranties. If anything, the fact that you can replace it for $50 instead of having to shell out $100 makes my argument more compelling. (At least to me.)


In general I agree with you (regarding extended warranties) but in the case of a product like TiVo that has a lifetime service on it the warranty is actually more of a no brainer.

With a TiVo, the lifetime service is NOT transferrable if the device craps out on you UNLESS it is covered under an extended warranty from TiVo or an authorized reseller (Best Buy for example).

If you take the Mini, yes, it's a cheap piece of electronics, but the lifetime service on it is $149 and could very possibly be more 2-3 years down the road. In the case of a Premiere, the lifetime service is quite a bit more.... so sure you can buy a cheap replacement but you will get hit up for a brand new lifetime service fee.

It's also worth pointing out that in many cases if you need to use the extended warranty you will end up getting a newer generation replacement product if the product you have can't be easily serviced.

You also commented about using your homeowners insurance to cover something like a piece of electronics damaged by a power surge. Does your deductible not apply in those situations? Many homeowners have a $500 or $1000 deductible but many are increasingly going to much larger deductibles (mine is .5% of dwelling replacement value) to lower their premiums and simply paying for smaller things out of pocket.


----------



## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jmpage2 said:


> You also commented about using your homeowners insurance to cover something like a piece of electronics damaged by a power surge. Does your deductible not apply in those situations? Many homeowners have a $500 or $1000 deductible but many are increasingly going to much larger deductibles (mine is .5% of dwelling replacement value) to lower their premiums and simply paying for smaller things out of pocket.


Yes I am up to $5000, saving about $700/year, will take me about 7 years without problems to save money if I do have an insurance problem, never made a home owners claim in 30 years, I have had the $5000 for about 6 years now, almost even if I do have a big claim now.


----------



## jmpage2 (Jan 21, 2004)

I agree. Lots of homeowners pay a fortune for a small deductible and then use it to nickel and dime their insurance company for small things (I actually had a neighbors kid break a window once and he put it on his homeowners!!).

I would prefer to pay for the small stuff out of pocket, save on my premium and only use insurance for the big stuff.

I had a hail storm roll through after we'd been in the house for 7 years and the roof was totaled. Cost of a new roof plus having our solar panels removed and re-installed was $33,000. At that point the higher deductible seemed like a bargain as after all of the various comps, etc, it still worked out being less than $1000.


----------



## cyberbeach (Nov 29, 2002)

I just bought two mini's. For the $78 dollars on the extended warranties plus $10, you could get a new mini from Amazon. And that's today's price. It could go down. 

First of all, both mini's would have to fail before I would have benefited from this.

Secondly, there might be a mini 2 at some point in the next 3 years.


----------



## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

I guess you don't have Lifetime on your minis.


----------



## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

cyberbeach said:


> I just bought two mini's. For the $78 dollars on the extended warranties plus $10, you could get a new mini from Amazon. And that's today's price. It could go down.
> 
> First of all, both mini's would have to fail before I would have benefited from this.
> 
> Secondly, there might be a mini 2 at some point in the next 3 years.


This is one reason I got the four year extended warranty on my two Minis from BestBuy. If a new Mini is released I will replace mine right away. The extended warranty will help with the resale.


----------

