# TiVo Fall 2007 Update Apparently Breaks TivoToGo/Toast on the Mac



## Sluggo042

I'm reposting something here that I've already posted to the Tivo and Roxio support forums. But since this community seems to have a much bigger audience than either of those places, I thought I'd restate it here in the hopes of raising the visibility of this problem.

I received the Tivo Fall 2007 Update several days ago. Since that time, I have not been able to create DVDs from shows transferred to my Mac via the TiVo Transfer component of Roxio Toast. Program files still transfer to the Mac, although when viewed in the TiVo Transfer Library Window, the Title is garbled (the Title column shows what I believe is the unparsed file name rather than the actual show title), and no information appears in the Episode, Duration, and Channel columns.

When the "Toast It" command is invoked, Toast launches, and shows the Encoding window, but the process stalls at that point, and the progress bar shows no further progress. It sticks at 0% or 1% progress.

Nothing has changed in my Roxio installation. This problem began the day I received notice that my TiVo has been updated. I strongly suspect that TiVo has modified the file format in some fashion that Toast no longer can decode. Other posts I've read indicate that TiVo is preparing some sort of new TivoToGo service for Series 3 boxes which required a change to the format of the file metadata associated with program files. I sounds to me like this metadata change is not being handled gracefully by TivoToGo or Toast.

I do not believe this to be an isolated incident - there are others on the Roxio boards reporting this problem. 

Tivo Series 2 via wireless network
Macintosh running OS X 10.4.9, and Toast 8.0.1

Doug G.


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## djliquidice

i've updated to the latest toast and this doe snot fix it. i ahve 8.0.1x and this is still a problem.


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## Peel

Sluggo042 said:


> I sounds to me like this metadata change is not being handled gracefully by TivoToGo or Toast.
> Doug G.


Is this just happening to recordings made by TiVo after the update, or older (8.x) recordings also? If it's just new recordings it sounds like it would be a format change, but if it's also affecting older recordings, then it seems to me that the transfer process itself is the culpret.


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## Sluggo042

Peel said:


> Is this just happening to recordings made by TiVo after the update, or older (8.x) recordings also?


It is happening to *any* recording *transferred* after the update, with no regard to when the recording was made.

The transfer TiVo-to-Mac works, and the video data is still there - the file size is as big as one would expect it to be, and you can view the video with the Roxio Toast Video Player tool with no apparent problems. In fact, a fellow on one of the other boards I posted on this problem demonstrated that you could still use Toast to generate an MPEG-4 version of the file (though this coinversion loses a bit of quality) using custom settings. So, all the A/V information is still there.

However, as displayed in the TiVo Transfer (TT) library pane, TT is not reading the file metadata properly. The Title Column shows the filename, rather than the parsed show title it displayed prior to the Update. Several columns (Episode, Duration, and Channel) show no information at all.

This suggests to me that the video file is packaged in some sort of a wrapper containing the show metadata, and that the structure of this wrapper has changed, and that the data TT expects is no longer where it used to be. When you then try to actually burn the file to DVD via Roxio Toast, it tries to encode the file, but stalls out barely into the process. Again, presumably, the wrapper change is interfering with Toast's ability to access the video data payload of the file.


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## bobconlon

This just happened to me too. I went on vacation and came back to a tivo update. Now I can't transfer and convert any of the shows from the past week through toast.

Has tivo responded to anyone's comments?


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## Sluggo042

bobconlon said:


> Has tivo responded to anyone's comments?


Not to my knowledge. Though I started this thread, and its companions on the Roxio and Tivo board, late Friday hoping to consolodate the complaints about the problem. So, there's been no business hours since I threw the complaint out there. I'm kinda hoping Monday business hours will bring some sort of a response. Yeah, I'm a dreamer. 

I have had one scary thought though . . . what if Roxio was aware of this problem beforehand, but needs to wait until the Tiger OS release from Apple hits the street before they'll be able to come out with a fix to Toast? Then we'll be stuck with this for another month or so? Yeouch! I hasten to say this is purely me speaking, I have no evidence this is the case.

Doug G.


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## bobconlon

So are most people able to still transfer the files to their computer?
Mine won't even do that. It simply says it is waiting to transfer the files and stalls out there.


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## djliquidice

no issues xferring, just converting. Using both OS X 10.4.10 and XP (latest).

this is sooooooooooooo frustrating. I'm over a day behind in processing already.


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## patatrox

Sluggo042 said:


> It is happening to *any* recording *transferred* after the update, with no regard to when the recording was made.
> 
> The transfer TiVo-to-Mac works, and the video data is still there - the file size is as big as one would expect it to be, and you can view the video with the Roxio Toast Video Player tool with no apparent problems. In fact, a fellow on one of the other boards I posted on this problem demonstrated that you could still use Toast to generate an MPEG-4 version of the file (though this coinversion loses a bit of quality) using custom settings. So, all the A/V information is still there.
> 
> However, as displayed in the TiVo Transfer (TT) library pane, TT is not reading the file metadata properly. The Title Column shows the filename, rather than the parsed show title it displayed prior to the Update. Several columns (Episode, Duration, and Channel) show no information at all.
> 
> This suggests to me that the video file is packaged in some sort of a wrapper containing the show metadata, and that the structure of this wrapper has changed, and that the data TT expects is no longer where it used to be. When you then try to actually burn the file to DVD via Roxio Toast, it tries to encode the file, but stalls out barely into the process. Again, presumably, the wrapper change is interfering with Toast's ability to access the video data payload of the file.


We are aware of the metadata issue, that will be fixed in an updater with a tentative release schedule pointing towards the end of this month. As another poster mentions, this will be the same update that fixes Leopard related issues, but failing when burning to DVD was not expected or something we've seen here.

I'm going to check if my DVR has been updated yet and do some more testing tonight.

Can anyone else confirm this is happening with all shows TRANSFERRED since the service update, including those that were recorded previous to this update?

Thanks

Patrick @ Roxio


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## patatrox

Sluggo042 said:


> I have had one scary thought though . . . what if Roxio was aware of this problem beforehand, but needs to wait until the Tiger OS release from Apple hits the street before they'll be able to come out with a fix to Toast? Then we'll be stuck with this for another month or so? Yeouch! I hasten to say this is purely me speaking, I have no evidence this is the case.


I can assure you this is not the case, we were working very closely with TiVo and were aware of the meta-data issues (mentioned above), but we may need a few more details about the burning issue from those in this thread before we can resolve.

Does saving to a disc image fail in the same way that burning to DVD fails?


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## Sluggo042

patatrox said:


> I can assure you this is not the case, we were working very closely with TiVo and were aware of the meta-data issues (mentioned above), but we may need a few more details about the burning issue from those in this thread before we can resolve.


Thank you for addressing my fears Re: Tiger. If you need more examples of people encountering this bug, you may want to check out the thread on this subject on the Roxio Support board, as there are several people there reporting this problem.

(Whoops, I tried to put a link for you to the Roxio thread, but this site won't let me post links because I'm a new member with insufficient posts. You'll have to get to the Roxio Support Forum on your own, and then look up showtopic=28792. Sorry about that!)



patatrox said:


> Does saving to a disc image fail in the same way that burning to DVD fails?


Yes, saving to disc image fails in the same fashion. In fact, that's where I encountered this bug, as I usually create images rather than burning so that I can later edit the resulting video files.

Once you hit the Burn button, Toast begins the encoding process, the burn setup window shrinks to the Encoding Progress window. The process then hangs indefinitely at 0% or 1% with no further progress. Though others have reported that the process is working sporadically for them, I've not had it work once since the TiVo Fall 2007 Update. Of course, once I discovered it was broken, I've not tried it many times since.

Doug G.


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## Sluggo042

patatrox said:


> We are aware of the metadata issue, that will be fixed in an updater with a tentative release schedule pointing towards the end of this month. As another poster mentions, this will be the same update that fixes Leopard related issues, but failing when burning to DVD was not expected or something we've seen here.


Patrick,

Many, many thanks for responding. Half the frustration of hitting a bug like this is not knowing if it is going to be addressed, or when. Knowing that Roxio is on the case helps a great deal.

I would be very happy to test any beta versions Roxio comes up with to see if they fix the bug. I'm a hardware test engineer, so I've some familiarity with systematic testing.



patatrox said:


> Can anyone else confirm this is happening with all shows TRANSFERRED since the service update, including those that were recorded previous to this update?


To test your question, I selected a show on my TiVo recorded in July, transferred it to my Mac via TTG, and then tried to burn it in Toast. Same symptoms - the conversion hangs at 1%.

Doug G.


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## patatrox

Sluggo042 said:


> Patrick,
> 
> Many, many thanks for responding. Half the frustration of hitting a bug like this is not knowing if it is going to be addressed, or when. Knowing that Roxio is on the case helps a great deal.
> 
> I would be very happy to test any beta versions Roxio comes up with to see if they fix the bug. I'm a hardware test engineer, so I've some familiarity with systematic testing.
> 
> To test your question, I selected a show on my TiVo recorded in July, transferred it to my Mac via TTG, and then tried to burn it in Toast. Same symptoms - the conversion hangs at 1%.
> 
> Doug G.


I have my DVR updated and I'll post an update here tomorrow, I couldn't bear to restart the DVR halfway through Heroes and the rest of the new Monday night lineup. 

Thanks for the patience, we'll get this sorted out as soon as possible.


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## Sluggo042

patatrox said:


> I have my DVR updated and I'll post an update here tomorrow, I couldn't bear to restart the DVR halfway through Heroes and the rest of the new Monday night lineup.
> 
> Thanks for the patience, we'll get this sorted out as soon as possible.


Understood, I have shows like that myself. Though, sadly, it will be months before I'll have that concern with BSG. 

I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear any updates on progress you might be able to let us in on. Thanks!

Doug G.


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## shulcslt

patatrox said:


> We are aware of the metadata issue, that will be fixed in an updater with a tentative release schedule pointing towards the end of this month. As another poster mentions, this will be the same update that fixes Leopard related issues, but failing when burning to DVD was not expected or something we've seen here.
> 
> I'm going to check if my DVR has been updated yet and do some more testing tonight.
> 
> Can anyone else confirm this is happening with all shows TRANSFERRED since the service update, including those that were recorded previous to this update?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Patrick @ Roxio


 I've transferred several shows since the update - some I've been able to burn, some not. Not sure that all the successful burns were recorded before the update - I thought not, but wasn't too concerned when I did it.


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## shulcslt

patatrox said:


> I can assure you this is not the case, we were working very closely with TiVo and were aware of the meta-data issues (mentioned above), but we may need a few more details about the burning issue from those in this thread before we can resolve.
> 
> Does saving to a disc image fail in the same way that burning to DVD fails?


 Just transferred two shows from one of my TiVos. One from yesterday and one PRIOR to the update.
Both encoded properly.

Then tried transferring another show, from yesterday. That wouldn't encode.

So, looks like SOME shows, post-update, WILL encode - others not.


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## patatrox

Sluggo042 said:


> Understood, I have shows like that myself. Though, sadly, it will be months before I'll have that concern with BSG.
> 
> I'm sure everyone will be happy to hear any updates on progress you might be able to let us in on. Thanks!
> 
> Doug G.


I'm more of an Atlantis fan myself.


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## patatrox

shulcslt said:


> Just transferred two shows from one of my TiVos. One from yesterday and one PRIOR to the update.
> Both encoded properly.
> 
> Then tried transferring another show, from yesterday. That wouldn't encode.
> 
> So, looks like SOME shows, post-update, WILL encode - others not.


I've been able to replicate the problem now, thanks to the cast of Scrubs.

I'll keep you updated as I find out more details .....


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## shulcslt

Thanks for your help.


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## anniegreens

I always know when I'm having any software issues that there is a good chance someone else is as well, and that I'll find an answer on a forum.

Anyways, exporting to iPod/iPhone format also hangs at 0% infinitely for shows recorded both before and after the Fall 2007 update.

Cheers to the hardworking programmers,
Anne


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## djliquidice

anniegreens said:


> I always know when I'm having any software issues that there is a good chance someone else is as well, and that I'll find an answer on a forum.
> 
> Anyways, exporting to iPod/iPhone format also hangs at 0% infinitely for shows recorded both before and after the Fall 2007 update.
> 
> Cheers to the hardworking programmers,
> Anne


the bug is for shows transfered after the update. boy each day puts me behind processing shows. My poor MBP will be crying when it sees the huge queue of work


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## shulcslt

djliquidice said:


> the bug is for shows transfered after the update. boy each day puts me behind processing shows. My poor MBP will be crying when it sees the huge queue of work


 It's not ALL shows transferred OR recorded after the update. Some shows recorded after the update WILL finish - others not. Haven't been able to identify a pattern, but have verifed this several times.


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## Sluggo042

patatrox said:


> I'll keep you updated as I find out more details .....


A question if I might, Patatrox.

I've got a lot of material backing up on the TiVo because I can't encode it to DVD. If I don't figure out some sort of temporary solution, I'm going to have to start chucking things overboard unwatched, which I'd rather not have to do.

I was thinking that since the files seem to be transferring ok via Tivo Transfer (TT), that perhaps a post-fix Toast will be able to read files regardless of if they were transferred pre- or post-Update. If that's going to be the case, I could start moving stuff off my Tivo to temporary parking on a spare drive, and hold them there until the Toast fix comes out.

On the other hand, if the fix is implemented in TT by a tweak to the transfer process itself, then perhaps the only way to recover the files will be for the files to pass through the transfer process to receive the fix tweak. In which case, I should keep anything I really want on the TiVo prior to the fix release, and I'll be forced to make some triage dumps.

Do you know enough about the solution yet to be able to say how the Toast fix is likely to work?

Many thanks for your efforts on this problem!

Doug G.


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## patatrox

djliquidice said:


> the bug is for shows transfered after the update. boy each day puts me behind processing shows. My poor MBP will be crying when it sees the huge queue of work


You and me both my friend....


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## patatrox

Sluggo042 said:


> A question if I might, Patatrox.
> On the other hand, if the fix is implemented in TT by a tweak to the transfer process itself, then perhaps the only way to recover the files will be for the files to pass through the transfer process to receive the fix tweak. In which case, I should keep anything I really want on the TiVo prior to the fix release, and I'll be forced to make some triage dumps.
> 
> Do you know enough about the solution yet to be able to say how the Toast fix is likely to work?
> 
> Many thanks for your efforts on this problem!
> 
> Doug G.


The most likely, and I stress likely as this has not been confirmed, scenario will be that an update to both Toast and Popcorn will allow you to export recordings that you are transferring off right now. I do not believe a change to the transfer process will impact this. (of course, I've been wrong before)


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## djliquidice

shulcslt said:


> It's not ALL shows transferred OR recorded after the update. Some shows recorded after the update WILL finish - others not. Haven't been able to identify a pattern, but have verifed this several times.


for me - it's all shows dude. i've tried to see if Tivo to go for windows was the culprit, but it doesn't matter how the file gets to toast.

My typical path: T2G on XP -> OS X for processing
Alternate:
T2G on OS X -> Processing

both paths fail for me


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## netguru7

I wonder when tivo will support AAC -iTunes store bought music and video podcasts. Seems like they don't care about the Mac anymore. I returned my Series 3 because i had issues with music playing and photos showing up on my tivo even though everything was correct after a tivo update (worked fine prior). They kept sending me to Roxio for the solution but Roxio sent me back saying they don't know why i was sent to them in the first place. Seriously tech support at tivo is worse than Comcast and that is saying a lot. Its ironic because i wanted to join the Tivo bandwagon to avoid such issues and tus was willing to pay the $1000 entry price.


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## patatrox

netguru7 said:


> I wonder when tivo will support AAC -iTunes store bought music and video podcasts. Seems like they don't care about the Mac anymore. I returned my Series 3 because i had issues with music playing and photos showing up on my tivo even though everything was correct after a tivo update (worked fine prior). They kept sending me to Roxio for the solution but Roxio sent me back saying they don't know why i was sent to them in the first place. Seriously tech support at tivo is worse than Comcast and that is saying a lot. Its ironic because i wanted to join the Tivo bandwagon to avoid such issues and tus was willing to pay the $1000 entry price.


I deal with folks at TiVo on an almost daily basis, I promise you that they care about the Mac. I can't really comment on the photo/music issues with the TiVo Desktop for Mac application though as that is absolutely handled by TiVo themselves.

I haven't tried sharing photos since the service update, but I'll do that tonight and see how it goes on my side.


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## kmitchell

I haven't had the time to test this out but could the quality of the recording be causing the burn process to hang? Without knowing the contents of the metadata it's hard to see how but it seems to be the pattern of "some shows burn and and some don't" could be related to record quality. 

Just a theory, 
Ken


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## djliquidice

kmitchell said:


> I haven't had the time to test this out but could the quality of the recording be causing the burn process to hang? Without knowing the contents of the metadata it's hard to see how but it seems to be the pattern of "some shows burn and and some don't" could be related to record quality.
> 
> Just a theory,
> Ken


eh, unless the way the shows are recorded are different - which i doubt being that the compression is all hardware. directshowdump has no issues remuxing the .tivo to .mpg. this is a roxio/tivo thing


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## shulcslt

kmitchell said:


> I haven't had the time to test this out but could the quality of the recording be causing the burn process to hang? Without knowing the contents of the metadata it's hard to see how but it seems to be the pattern of "some shows burn and and some don't" could be related to record quality.
> 
> Just a theory,
> Ken


 Same quality recordings. Same machine(s). Can't find an apparent pattern.


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## kentsavage

I also have the same problem with shows transferred this week. I am transferring a show recorded Saturday before the update and will see how that goes. I have no problem transferring, just encoding.

Kent


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## djliquidice

i've tried finding a pattern as well, i have two series 2's and nothing.


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## bmel

from roxio:

Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support

We have confirmed that recent TiVo Fall 2007 Software Update for the TiVo unit has caused the TiVo files not appearing correctly in the TiVo Transfer window and burning to DVD stuck at 0% or 1%.

We have provided the information to TiVo and are currently working on a fix for the issue and will provide an update on our website as soon as we can.

Thanks for contacting Roxio Customer Care. Let us know if you need further assistance on this issue by clicking the Update button.

Regards,

Roxio Technical Support
http://support.roxio.com


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## kentsavage

For what it may add I have two Macs, an iMac G5 and a black macbook. The symptoms differ slightly. On the G5 both the name and episode field are messed up. The program name shows the filename with extension and the episode field is blank. On the Macbook the name field is OK but the episode field is blank. On both the TV station is blank

On the Bootcamp partition on the macbook I was able to transfer the file using tivo server 2.5 and burn a DVD using MyDVD6 no problem.

I also tried transferring a program recorded before the update to the macbook and burning it last night but it froze too.

All the machines will play the files fine.

It looks to me like Tivo Transfer has some problem parsing the file metadata and that or something else causes Toast 8 to hang.

Kent


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## djliquidice

i wonder how long it would take. this is over a week now.


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## ZZip

got my tivo update and now suddenly the opensource tools I use to process
the recordings are failing (complaing about invalid group of pictures (GOP)
headers)

I am not using a mac, but my problems sound similar to what is happening
here, so I wonder if it's a problem with the new tivo software in general,
and not Mac/Roxio?


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## Sluggo042

ZZip said:


> got my tivo update and now suddenly the opensource tools I use to process
> the recordings are failing (complaing about invalid group of pictures (GOP)
> headers)
> 
> I am not using a mac, but my problems sound similar to what is happening
> here, so I wonder if it's a problem with the new tivo software in general,
> and not Mac/Roxio?


Well, the fellow from Roxio acknowledged earlier in this thread that there was a change in Tivo's video file metadata structure. And as it appears he was surprised when his Tivo>Mac link broke (he only went looking for the problem once he read about it here) I can only assume that Roxio wasn't aware that this change was imminent, or at very least they thought it wouldn't break Roxio's software. This suggests to me that Tivo wasn't completely upfront about the change to their partners before they pushed it to the public. Considering the length of time it took Tivo to provide TivoToGo to us Mac folk, despite many broken promises, and long periods of no communication at all, Tivo failing to notify their partners of critical changes doesn't suprise me in the least.

But, putting my gripes aside , I would expect that any piece of software, Mac, Windows, or otherwise, written prior to the recent update, has a significant chance of breaking when trying to access post-Update Tivo video files. We know the format changed. If the software makes assumptions about where to find the video, and the new format doesn't fit those assumptions, then the software may well be unable to read the video data, or correctly parse the metadata.

That said, you have one possible benefit over us Toast users - the coder community that wrote your open source tools may be able to get fixes out there more quickly than a commercial software outfit, which I imagine has a bunch of QA and testing to do before they can release their fix. OTOH, at least we know Roxio is on the case - if the developers of your software have moved on to other things, you might not get a fix at all.

Doug G.


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## saberman

It also breaks it on Windows XP SP2 using TiVo desktop.

I have .tivo files that were transferred to the PC using TiVo to go and successfully transferred back using TiVo goback (Tivo desktop) before the fall update. Now it takes three to six tries to get a .tivo file to transfer back to the TiVo. The error message even says to try again.

What is even worse is that MPG files won't transfer at all. You can get the transfer to start but then it fails with an error message that says that "either the file length is wrong or the file is corrupted". I have hundreds of Gigabytes of video on my PC (all of it legal) that I can no longer watch on the TiVo.

I tried calling TiVo support and waited over ten minutes for the first level to get on. He said that TiVo changed the file format for the .tive transfer files and that files transfered with previous versions of the TiVo software could not be be transferred back using the latest version. I pointed out that they can -- it just takes two to six tries to get the file transfer to start and that this was obviously a software bug not a file format change. (If TiVo was going to change the file format transferred to the PC it would have supplied a conversion program to convert the millions of files folks already transferred to avoid being .) In addition, TiVo still says you can view MPG files so the inability to transfer them is also an obvious bug. I suggested he transfer me to the next level up since all he had was bad information.

He gave me a case number and then transferred me. I spent another then minutes on hold until I heard the line ring once and then go dead. 

So I called again and waited for twenty minutes listening to the promotion for Amzaon unbox. (If TiVo can't even transfer back video files they created and transferred to the PC how are they going to reliably download videos from Amazon?)

Ah -- someone picked up. I explained that I had called before and that when the first level person transferred me to the next level I was hold for ten minutes and then the phone rang once and went dead. I asked if he needed the case number and he said he had it and saw that I was transferred. He said they were having a problem with their phones but he would make sure I was transferred probperly. Then the music came on. A few minutes later the line went dead.

I have dialed again and am back in the first queue. It it now one hour since the first attempt to reach TiVo support.

Ah -- another answer after only twenty minutes. This time I asked for a direct number. Not only doesn't level one have one but they cannot even setup a conference call to make sure the transfer goes through.

The third one was the charm. Level two says I have to upgrade my TiVo desktop. I asked them what about products that use the TiVo SDK -- like galleon. The answer was TiVo does not support anything but it's desktop software. So I guess the SDK is not supported. I then suggested that they change the script the Level one folks have since they are told that the file format changed and that any .tivo file transferred with an older version of the TiVo OS could not be transferred back.

So after one hour and ten minutes I am off to try a new version of the TiVo desktop. Of course without galleon I have to have four or five hundred video files in one list. Now what are the odds that TiVo can handle that?

Talk to you later.


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## Sluggo042

saberman said:


> (If TiVo was going to change the file format transferred to the PC it would have supplied a conversion program to convert the millions of files folks already transferred to avoid being .)


OK, ya lost me there. Why would there be need for a conversion program? All those millions of files already on PCs are still there and viewable using existing viewer software. It would seem to me that any change to the file format would only affect transfers conducted post-Update.

Of course, I think that your own experience with Tivo Support kinda answers the question. Given how difficult they make customer support (long wait times, lack of any online method of reporting problems), is it in any way surprising that they're perfectly happy to make changes that inconvenience a few of their users? I suspect those of us using the file transfer capabilties make up a minor fraction of their user base. I'm not saying it is right to treat us this way, but rather, that nothing TiVo does surprises me much any more. I'm quite happy that the solution to my problem lies with Roxio, even though I think it is TiVo's fault in the first place.

Doug G.


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## ZZip

Sluggo042 said:


> Well, the fellow from Roxio acknowledged earlier in this thread that there was a change in Tivo's video file metadata structure. And as it appears he was surprised when his Tivo>Mac link broke (he only went looking for the problem once he read about it here) I can only assume that Roxio wasn't aware that this change was imminent, or at very least they thought it wouldn't break Roxio's software. This suggests to me that Tivo wasn't completely upfront about the change to their partners before they pushed it to the public. Considering the length of time it took Tivo to provide TivoToGo to us Mac folk, despite many broken promises, and long periods of no communication at all, Tivo failing to notify their partners of critical changes doesn't suprise me in the least.


To me, it seems that the changes are more than just metadata. The video files now seem to break the MPEG format. Before, most tools that could handle mpegs would handle the tivo files just fine. Now some tools won't open them at all, and some will open with alot of errors (and freeze if you try to convert the files).

So I don't know if they accidentally or deliberatly broke the MPEG format.



> That said, you have one possible benefit over us Toast users - the coder community that wrote your open source tools may be able to get fixes out there more quickly than a commercial software outfit, which I imagine has a bunch of QA and testing to do before they can release their fix. OTOH, at least we know Roxio is on the case - if the developers of your software have moved on to other things, you might not get a fix at all.


Well, there isn't much support for Tivo in the coder community, and information is hard to come by. Before I had to do alot of trial and error to build a process that converts TV shows to DVD or portables.

What's annoying is this is the second time they broke TTG in a year for me. I really think my next DVR is going to be a mythTV box so I don't have to worry about vendor changes.


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## TiVo Kid 2003

I'll just throw my hat in the ring & say that since the update, I've been having problems with about 20% of the files transfered from my Humax S2 TiVo. My older "Tivo brand" S2 Tivo does not show the symptoms.

What I see is that the file transfers OK (full size transfer, not truncated), but the video file doesn't open properly in VideoRedo, Windows Media player, etc....

The file is always less time than reality. Sometimes it shows as 20 minutes long, sometimes 40 minutes....

If I transfer the file via https instead of the desktop software, I get the same result. I don't think the problem is with the desktop software.

I believe there is a bug/problem with how the Humax Tivo is packaging / streaming the file. As I understand it, the Humax box is kinda cheap (weaker processor, etc...) so that might explain the problem, maybe the processor can't keep up with the demands of the encoding & transfer. Who knows...

I'm using Win2K & Tivo Desktop 2.3a, but I really don't think that's the problem. I had NO ISSUES until this 9.1 fall update.

In the remote chance that someone from TiVo reads this -- this seems to happen when multiple programs on the same channel are recorded back to back. I want to say the first program in the chain after a channel change seems OK, but subsequent programs seem to be garbled... but don't quote me on that.


----------



## djliquidice

no updates yet from roxio/tivo.... this is frustrating.


----------



## Sluggo042

ZZip said:


> To me, it seems that the changes are more than just metadata. The video files now seem to break the MPEG format. Before, most tools that could handle mpegs would handle the tivo files just fine. Now some tools won't open them at all, and some will open with alot of errors (and freeze if you try to convert the files).
> 
> So I don't know if they accidentally or deliberatly broke the MPEG format.


I have a limited perspective as I'm dealing with this on a Mac, and am only using the specific TivoToGo/Roxio Toast route to move files, but I'm not seeing a lot of the problems other people are reporting. I can transfer successfully until the cows come home, it's just the post-move conversions that fail for me. And even there, Toast Video Player plays the files fine, which is why I've been saying the MPEG info seems intact. None of which completely rules out a scenario in which the file format has been broken in a deeper sense, or in a fashion that breaks differently on different TiVo boxes. However, MPEG is a complicated beast, and it wouldn't be difficult for a simple format change to the envelope Tivo packs it in to exhibit a lot of bizarre behavior from programs attempting to unwrap it.



ZZip said:


> I really think my next DVR is going to be a mythTV box so I don't have to worry about vendor changes.


Roger that!


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

ZZip said:


> What's annoying is this is the second time they broke TTG in a year for me. I really think my next DVR is going to be a mythTV box so I don't have to worry about vendor changes.


Second that. A working TTG is the main reason I keep using the TiVo(s). I travel a lot & like to download / convert my Damages / Shield / Criminal Intent / etc. and watch them on the road. As soon as that becomes painful (and it is), any of the PC-based alternatives win, with MythTV being the winner in my mind.

(I put "any of the PC-based alternatives" ahead of TiVo, because even a commercial offering doesn't force updates down your throat. You update the PC software when you feel it's warranted.)


----------



## ZZip

Sluggo042 said:


> I have a limited perspective as I'm dealing with this on a Mac, and am only using the specific TivoToGo/Roxio Toast route to move files, but I'm not seeing a lot of the problems other people are reporting. I can transfer successfully until the cows come home, it's just the post-move conversions that fail for me. And even there, Toast Video Player plays the files fine, which is why I've been saying the MPEG info seems intact. None of which completely rules out a scenario in which the file format has been broken in a deeper sense, or in a fashion that breaks differently on different TiVo boxes. However, MPEG is a complicated beast, and it wouldn't be difficult for a simple format change to the envelope Tivo packs it in to exhibit a lot of bizarre behavior from programs attempting to unwrap it.


I can play the videos too in some players I have installed, but every editor I've tried complains about the format, and they hang exportting the file. So it does sound similar to your problem


----------



## saberman

Sluggo042 said:


> OK, ya lost me there. Why would there be need for a conversion program? All those millions of files already on PCs are still there and viewable using existing viewer software. It would seem to me that any change to the file format would only affect transfers conducted post-Update.
> 
> Of course, I think that your own experience with Tivo Support kinda answers the question. Given how difficult they make customer support (long wait times, lack of any online method of reporting problems), is it in any way surprising that they're perfectly happy to make changes that inconvenience a few of their users? I suspect those of us using the file transfer capabilties make up a minor fraction of their user base. I'm not saying it is right to treat us this way, but rather, that nothing TiVo does surprises me much any more. I'm quite happy that the solution to my problem lies with Roxio, even though I think it is TiVo's fault in the first place.
> 
> Doug G.


Ah -- but if they changed the file format (which they didn't) then you couldn't transfer old .tivo files back to the TiVo. It turns out that TiVo gave their level one support people wrong information. What changed was the communications protocal between the TiVo and the PC. Going to the latest version of TiVo desktop fixed the PC to TiVo problem. Unfortunately, the TiVo to PC transfers now take 10 times as long.

I think a large percentage of TiVo users transfer files. However, TiVo has been concentrating on the S3 which does not yet transfer files. I suspect they do very little testing of S2 boxes (other than they boot OK) even though TiVo is still selling them. The file transfer problems would have been picked up in a minimal set of regression tests -- indicating that TiVo didn't do any.


----------



## Sluggo042

saberman said:


> Ah -- but if they changed the file format (which they didn't) then you couldn't transfer old .tivo files back to the TiVo.


How does that follow? Transport mechanisms typically don't care what is in the payload. They just shuffle packets of bits back and forth, and reassemble an intact file at the destination. They generally don't look at the contents of the file. The transfer process shouldn't care if it was an old format .tivo file or a new one. And since a post-update Tivo still plays shows recorded before the update (even if the show in question never left the Tivo via transfer), then certainly the programers made provision to play either type of file.

It may well be more complicated than a simple format change. The fact that everyone is reporting different symptoms argues for that. For instance, I'm not seeing any increased transfer time at all. In fact, I suspect that there may have been improvements to the process, as I used to get a lot of partial transfers, and I've not seen that once since the update (knock on wood). However, the symptoms I'm seeing do seem compatible with the idea of a file format change. Expecially given that the one comment we've had from someone in the know said as much.

(BTW, Patatrox, this might be a nifty point to jump in and put all this speculation out of its misery and just tell us what's really going on, if you have a moment  )


----------



## ZZip

I am not seeing increased transfer times either, and I'm still using the same version of Galleon to transfer files that I was using before.

I think I may have found a potential workaround for the problems I was experiencing on Linux. (I can view, but not edit the files since the 9.1 update).

I used mencoder to transfer the whole file into avi format, I can then edit the file and reencode it into DVD-compatible format. It's not ideal since the file is reencoded twice, and loses quality each time, but it might be good enough to process the last 5 shows I want to keep from my TiVo. I'll just use my PC TV card to record new shows I want to archive unless and until Tivo fixes this.

I'm not sure if there's a way to do something similar on the Mac.

It looks like the problem has to do with the way the videos are indexed now, if you watch them all the way through, great. If you try to skip around or save off parts of the file, the software gets confused. In mplayer, it shows how many seconds into the video you are, if you skip around, that counter gets confused and might show 75 seconds when you might really be 500 seconds into it.


----------



## animalism2

The TivoDecoder Applescript still works. I dusted off the old hack, which I haven't needed since I got Toast, and I was surprised that my old procedure still works! 

Anyway, I hope that's a clue that can help Roxio move this along.


----------



## saberman

Sluggo042 said:


> How does that follow? Transport mechanisms typically don't care what is in the payload. They just shuffle packets of bits back and forth, and reassemble an intact file at the destination. They generally don't look at the contents of the file. The transfer process shouldn't care if it was an old format .tivo file or a new one. And since a post-update Tivo still plays shows recorded before the update (even if the show in question never left the Tivo via transfer), then certainly the programers made provision to play either type of file.


I think I was not very clear. When I finally reached level 1 TiVo support with my problem in transferring .tivo files from the PC to the TiVo the tech support person said that the file format was changed and therefore stuff transfered before the latest upgrade could not be transferred back. This was obviously not the case as I could, after trying three to six times, get a .tivo file to transfer back from the PC to the TiVo.

If TiVo did change the file format of a .tivo file the transfer back from the PC to the TiVo would probably fail as the TiVo would not be able to interprete the encrypted information in the .tivo file. It would not be a failure in the transport protocal which, as you correctly point out, is only concerned with moving bits from one place to another. It would be a failure in the next layer where the bits need to be interpreted.

In any event the latest release of the TiVo software is extremely buggy. My Living Room TiVo cannot see the PC at all. It can see the Bedroom TiVo but cannot list the files recorded on it. The Bedroom TiVo can see the PC and all of the video files on it.

The PC can see the Living Room TiVo and transfer -- very slowly -- shows recorded on it to the PC.

I will try rebooting the Living Room TiVo as soon as the transfer to the PC completes -- which will be in a day or two. This is for four hours of medium recording or a total of 4GB.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

saberman said:


> Ah -- but if they changed the file format (which they didn't) then you couldn't transfer old .tivo files back to the TiVo. It turns out that TiVo gave their level one support people wrong information. What changed was the communications protocal between the TiVo and the PC. Going to the latest version of TiVo desktop fixed the PC to TiVo problem. Unfortunately, the TiVo to PC transfers now take 10 times as long.


Have you tried transferring directly via https & the Tivo's IP address? When I do (bypassing the desktop software, which for me is 2.3a) I get the exact same file (i.e. same size & contents). For that reason I don't think it's the desktop software. (My transfers don't take any longer than they used to, either.)

I'm pretty sure it's the whole "on the fly" conversion/encoding of the recorded program into the stream that's sent to the PC. Something changed. JMHO.


----------



## Sluggo042

saberman said:


> In any event the latest release of the TiVo software is extremely buggy. My Living Room TiVo cannot see the PC at all. It can see the Bedroom TiVo but cannot list the files recorded on it. The Bedroom TiVo can see the PC and all of the video files on it.


It's possible that there's been some sort of change to networking code that is causing your symptoms, in addition to the metadata change. My setup is much simpler than yours - one Tivo, one Mac, connected wirelessly, so there's not a lot of chatter going back and forth between boxes. A metadata change could still explain the problem though - if all of these networked boxes transmit header data back and forth so that it can be displayed on selection menus, it wouldn't take much to honk up the data getting swapped. And as you said previously, this all points to some deficient testing prior to release.

I think the comment TivoKid made is very germane. On the Mac, the transport and encoding functions are performed independently. First the file is moved, and only after it is completely on the Mac does the actual processing begin. If the process on the PC is somehow combined (move some bits, encode them, move some more, etc.), then a problem with encoding would definitely impact the transfer speed. I'd definitely try the direct IP transfer TivoKid suggests.


----------



## saberman

The GoBack seems to be working - at least it now lists the files.

However, I cannot play anything with a .tvio extension using either Windows Media Player 11 or Nero's Show Time. (3.x) on the PC. These used to work.


----------



## djliquidice

I got tired of dicking around with the Tivo software. it seems that the stuff that is FREE out there works perfectly.

Demux by the use of direct show dump and then compress with 3GP Converter. it's such a shame that the tools that we BUY from tivo and rixio have these issues. What is it that the GNU Folks know that the tivo team does not?


----------



## Sparkylulu

I am soooooo glad to see that I am not the only one with this problem. I wrote to Roxio, I posted here....
I noticed something, though. When a show is transferred to tivo transfer the channel is listed as n/a. It is only those shows that will not encode. I can't export. I can't burn. It hangs on 0%. Like everyone else.
Glad to know I am not the only one and someone is on it for the fix. 
these n/a channel shows are not tivocast. They are shows that indicate correct channels on the tivo transfer like Comedy central, espn, etc. But when they are offloaded to the macbook, the channels themselves are listed as n/a. I can watch on my mac but I can't transfer to my ipod. Which is the reason I use it.


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## vfrben

every show i've tried to burn lately hangs up at 0%. in addition, these newer shows will not even play in the toast viewer.


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## fgrimes

I can confirm that transferring from TiVo to Mac works fine. When I export from toast it creates a file but does make any progress to complete the export.


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## javabird

Same problem here-- I can transfer the file to my Mac using Tivo Transfer, but when trying to burn to a DVD, it stays at 0%.
As an experiment, I tried downloading the same movie using TivoDecode Manager, and tried to use Toast to burn the mpeg file to a DVD. It still stayed at 0%.


----------



## philvh

Seems to be a variety of symptoms -- none good -- stemming from the Fall 2007 "update." I've seen no reference thus far to the one I'm experiencing with Mac OS 10.4.10 and Toast Titanium 8.01. In Tivo Transfer, the previously recorded library displays just fine, though I haven't yet tried to burn. But I get nothing more than a spinning gear when trying to see the DVR's directory.


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## roadkill_97006

I have 2 Series 2s and can transfer just fine, view the downloaded shows just fine, but I have the n/a channel ID problem and the 0%-1% encoder hang. I have no clue why sometimes it's 0% and others 1% - all with the same downloaded file. 

I have a bit of a new wrinkle, though. The show I can't burn is one of a pair of SG Atlantis shows I downloaded AT THE SAME TIME. Highlight 2 shows and then transfer them with one click. The clue, I think, is that one of the 2 shows was recorded prior to the FU and the other after. "I think" is the operative point here. I'm not prepared to swear to that, but it's the only explanation I can come up with. I have another fairly old show I'm going to try to see if pre-FU files still work.


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## roadkill_97006

roadkill_97006 said:


> I have another fairly old show I'm going to try to see if pre-FU files still work.


OK, I'm stumped. I downloaded a show recorded way prior to the FU and yet it hangs with zero cpu use in the activity monitor. What's confusing me so much is that I downloaded 4 SG Atlantis shows (the seasons' first 4) and was able to burn 3 of them with no problem (other than it takes FOREVER to download and encode the things). I downloaded all 4 of them the same day, way after the FU. Why the heck did 3 work????


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## shulcslt

roadkill_97006 said:


> OK, I'm stumped. I downloaded a show recorded way prior to the FU and yet it hangs with zero cpu use in the activity monitor. What's confusing me so much is that I downloaded 4 SG Atlantis shows (the seasons' first 4) and was able to burn 3 of them with no problem (other than it takes FOREVER to download and encode the things). I downloaded all 4 of them the same day, way after the FU. Why the heck did 3 work????


 As far as I can see, there's no READILY APPARENT pattern as to why some shows will encode and others not. I transferred three shows, all recorded last night, on the same box - two encoded, one didn't. This is a repeatable for me.


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## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> As far as I can see, there's no READILY APPARENT pattern as to why some shows will encode and others not. I transferred three shows, all recorded last night, on the same box - two encoded, one didn't. This is a repeatable for me.


When you say that it is repeatable, do you mean that of those two shows that did encode, they will always encode, and that the show(s) that don't encode will never encode no matter how many times you try?

Is there any difference in the recording quality you're using on your Tivo with these shows? By which I mean, perhaps the Tivo recording quality has something to do with it. Purely a guess.

Doug G.


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## TiVo Kid 2003

Just wondering - has anyone contacted TiVo about this & offered to upload a damaged file? (Full disclosure: I haven't because I have convinced myself it would be like p***ing in the wind. In that sense I'm part of the problem.) Is that something the TiVo engineers will even entertain?

I'm just wondering because (as a firmware engineer) I always tell my customers, "if you can reproduce the problem, tell me how [ in this case - send TiVo the file ] and I can find & fix it."

I'm also wondering if the small amount of attention this is getting is reflective of how many people actually download content from the TiVo. I do it all the time, my 2 friends w/ TiVos do.... but maybe we are part of a very small minority?


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## griz

Well, 9.1 has broken Tivo To Go through both Popcorn3's Tivo transfer and through Tivo Decode Manager. Both just say "Waiting for Tivo". 
I thought the Roxio Option was fully sanctioned by Tivo. You would think they would test this before releasing the update. 
We need to make some noise about this. I'm sending a message to Roxio and Tivo right now.


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## griz

Well, I seem to have solved my problem while on hold with Tivo. I just rebooted the tivo and all is good. Before that I went into my account and I disabled transfers and download and then re-enabled them. Not sure it that or the reboot helped.
Anyway. I am off and downloading once again using 9.1.


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## Sluggo042

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> Just wondering - has anyone contacted TiVo about this & offered to upload a damaged file? (Full disclosure: I haven't because I have convinced myself it would be like p***ing in the wind. In that sense I'm part of the problem.) Is that something the TiVo engineers will even entertain?
> 
> I'm just wondering because (as a firmware engineer) I always tell my customers, "if you can reproduce the problem, tell me how [ in this case - send TiVo the file ] and I can find & fix it."
> 
> I'm also wondering if the small amount of attention this is getting is reflective of how many people actually download content from the TiVo. I do it all the time, my 2 friends w/ TiVos do.... but maybe we are part of a very small minority?


TiVo Kid,

As a guy who used to do testing on set top boxes for a living, I agree with your sentiment. That's part of why I've been paying so much attention to this thread, and similar ones on the Roxio and Tivo sites, and trying to ask questions that might narrow and define the problem.

However, given that the only acknowledgement anyone seems to have received on this issue has come from an off-duty Roxio guy (and even he seems to have zipped his lip on the subject), and given the repeated recitations of extremely unhelpful customer "service" on the part of Tivo itself seen in any situation, I'd guess that any such suggestions of assistance would not be heard. Had they any interest in such data, it would be a trivial matter for one of their technical types to post at any one of these discussion sites and request it. I'm not holding my breath.

I'd settle for an update from anyone at TiVo or Roxio as to the ETA of a fix. Are they working on a fix, or are they still figuring out what the problem is? If there is a fix, is it in QA, or are there still weeks of coding ahead? I don't see why it is so impossible to at least tell us what is going on. All secrecy buys them is ill will from the customers.

Doug G.


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## Sluggo042

griz said:


> Well, I seem to have solved my problem while on hold with Tivo. I just rebooted the tivo and all is good. Before that I went into my account and I disabled transfers and download and then re-enabled them. Not sure it that or the reboot helped.
> Anyway. I am off and downloading once again using 9.1.


When you say "9.1" are you referring to TiVo software? If so, does this mean the software distributed as the Tivo Fall 2007 Update? Or is this an update of the Update?

Doug G.


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## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> When you say that it is repeatable, do you mean that of those two shows that did encode, they will always encode, and that the show(s) that don't encode will never encode no matter how many times you try?
> 
> Is there any difference in the recording quality you're using on your Tivo with these shows? By which I mean, perhaps the Tivo recording quality has something to do with it. Purely a guess.
> 
> Doug G.


 By repeatable, I mean that it happens consistently with files transferred after the 9.1 update. I transferred two files the morning after I received the update, quickly tried one to see if it would work, as before, and was reassured when it did. Later in the day, I tried the second, it hung at 0%.

Since then, I've been able to encode/burn half a dozen files and not been able to with 5. Doesn't matter which of my two Humax DRT800s created the file, there's no difference in the recording settings box to box, or show to show. At one point, I thought that the variable was show length, but that proved not to be the case. Repeated attempts to burn the same files didn't change the results.

Haven't been able to see a pattern.

FWIW, I'm not seeing any of the reported problems transferring the files from the TiVos to my Mac.


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## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> By repeatable, I mean that it happens consistently with files transferred after the 9.1 update. I transferred two files the morning after I received the update, quickly tried one to see if it would work, as before, and was reassured when it did. Later in the day, I trioed the second, it hung at 0%.
> 
> Since then, I've been able to encode/burn half a dozen files and not been able to with 5. Doesn't matter which of my two Humax DRT800s created the file, there's no difference in the recording settings box to box, or show to show. At one point, I thought that the variable was show length, but that proved not to be the case. Repeated attempts to burn the same files didn't change the results.
> 
> Haven't been able to see a pattern.


It is interesting that you have more than one Tivo. There's a thread with the same topic I started over on the Roxio board where we've been talking a bit about installations having more than one Tivo. As near as I've been able to tell, the metadata change is especially troublesome to multi-Tivo setups. Not surprising, as the various Tivos have to pass that metadata back and forth to keep everyone's list up to date. But, having only the single unit myself, it's not something I can test.

If you feel like being scientific, you might try turning off one of your Tivos, and see if and how the symptoms change.

I presume the split between encodeable files is not the difference between files recorded by the Tivo before and after the Update.

What's got me about all of this is how variable the symptoms are. In my setup, I can transfer, but I cannot encode, and I've seen no exceptions to this. You and others are reporting some successful encodes. Maybe we should get a little more specific about the term 'encode'. When I'm encoding, I'm doing it exclusively for burning to DVD. Is that how you mean it as well, or are you encoding to some other format, like something viewable on your computer? Perhaps the endoding settins are the difference between our situations.

Doug G.


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## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> FWIW, I'm not seeing any of the reported problems transferring the files from the TiVos to my Mac.


Oh, one other quick question. After you've transferred the files from Tivo to Mac, and can see the program in your Tivo Transfer window, do you at least see that the titles are screwed up, and that some of the columns (episode, duration, channel) are missing data altogether? That would match my symptoms.

Doug G.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> Oh, one other quick question. After you've transferred the files from Tivo to Mac, and can see the program in your Tivo Transfer window, do you at least see that the titles are screwed up, and that some of the columns (episode, duration, channel) are missing data altogether? That would match my symptoms.
> 
> Doug G.


 Doug,

I've read the thread(s) on the Roxio and TiVo boards.

I'm encoding to burning to disk. The episode info is displaying properly in TiVo Transfer's "TiVo DVR" screens, but not on the "Library" screen.

Can't imagine how having more than one TiVo can be the variable for the encoding problem.

Jon


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## griz

OK, so I solved the transfer problem, but now the files won't decode. Is this process really that difficult for these companies to get right? Off I go to Roxio support once again. Should hear back in a few weeks. Their support is slower than molasses.


----------



## griz

Sluggo042 said:


> When you say "9.1" are you referring to TiVo software? If so, does this mean the software distributed as the Tivo Fall 2007 Update? Or is this an update of the Update?
> 
> Doug G.


9.1 is the fall update. It's actually 9.1.something, but in any case. It's the most recent fall update.


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## TiVo Kid 2003

A few posts above there was mention of multiple TiVos. I have 2 Tivos but I've only had problems with the Humax-made TiVo.

What I should do is record the same damn program with the same damn settings with both TiVos, transfer both programs, and *maybe* the Humax one will be messed up. Then I could point and say, "Tivo, explain why the files aren't the same." 

The problem is that only about 10-20% of the files are messed up, so that exercise could be a painful one.

Maybe it's time to switch to MythTv. Problem is that I can't say that without feeling like I'm lithping.


----------



## Peter000

My TiVos were just activated with TTG, but one of them hangs when transferring, between 10-17kb. I'm not quite sure what to to about it.


----------



## Peter000

Okay, so after the 9.1 update, the TTG feature actually worked, and I transferred a show to my laptop. This was an HD show.

Problems:
It didn't transfer to the directory I specified... it tranferred to the "default" TiVoShows directory, even though I changed it.

After the transfer, what do I play the file with?? First I tried playing it from TiVo to go and it said "You need a registerd copy of Toast to do this." I DO have a registered copy of Toast, thank you. Well, I finally found the drop-down inside of Toast for the "Toast Video Player" but it plays it at some sort of weird double speed. No other player on my system seems to work.

I'm currently encoding it to play to my AppleTV... Hopefully that will work. 

Are there any editing applications I can use to cut out the commercials before I transcode it? Or at least trim the beginning and end?


----------



## oo7plyr

I too have experienced this double speed playback. It's annoying.


----------



## griz

I just opened a trouble ticket with Roxio. My problem is still with transfers hanging, but not consistently. When they do complete, they will not transcode. This is unacceptable since that was the whole point behind me buying Popcorn for the Mac in the first place. 
Interestingly enough, I can no longer decode files with the Tivo Decode Manager. Has Tivo changed the encryption with this roll out to break things like Tivo Decode Manager? Well, if so, Roxio apparently is slow in getting their act together and making it work with their software. Or Tivo is slow in getting them the info they need to make it work. This is the kind of crap that made people hack it in the first place. Tivo either needs to deliver a solution that works or just come out and say they are no longer allowing you to transfer content to other devices like ipods and AppleTV. Then we can all know and move on. I for one will drop Tivo in a heartbeat and move to an Elgato EyeTV.
I may just do it anyhow. I'll also be demanding my money back for Popcorn since it is no longer useful in its present form. 
There is no excuse for them to be lagging behind this rollout of the Fall Update.
GET IT TOGETHER ROXIO AND TIVO, YOU HAVE 2 WEEKS BEFORE YOU LOSE A CUSTOMER!


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## Sparkylulu

Has there been any movement on fixing this problem or are we sol?


----------



## Timber

oo7plyr said:


> I too have experienced this double speed playback. It's annoying.


+1

But if I use Toast and export to MOV its fine.

I'm a little disappointed that Roxio aren't ready for us, as they were part of TiVo's beta process (hopefully) I'd expect answers and dates. 

(Oh and when I go to the Roxio site to register Toast 8 I can't, the last version in the drop down is Toast 5.)

-=Tim=-


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## Sparkylulu

Yeah! only 5! What is up with that?


----------



## mattman

As a note, I cannot see my Series3 in the TiVo Transfer app, but I can transfer just fine from the Series 2 I own. I cannot, it seems, convert to iPod, or from what I can tell, burn a DVD. I will try some more options and see what happens.


----------



## Skinny Kid

mattman said:


> As a note, I cannot see my Series3 in the TiVo Transfer app, but I can transfer just fine from the Series 2 I own. I cannot, it seems, convert to iPod, or from what I can tell, burn a DVD. I will try some more options and see what happens.


My Series3 disappeared too. TiVo transfer has no idea where it is. Series2 still shows up fine but hangs while burning just like everyone else's. I am running out of HD space. I only have 22.59 gigs left of a 1 tb drive. I'm dying over here. :down:


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## Supermurph

I'm using Popcorn and sometimes it hangs at 0% when I try to convert the Tivo file, but more often I get "Mac OS Error: Result code 1718449215". I searched Google for this code and it appears to be audio related. My thinking for now based on the other posts to this string are that it's the metadata issue confusing the Mac. I also posted a ticket to Roxio.


----------



## gglockner

Supermurph said:


> I'm using Popcorn and sometimes it hangs at 0% when I try to convert the Tivo file, but more often I get "Mac OS Error: Result code 1718449215". I searched Google for this code and it appears to be audio related. My thinking for now based on the other posts to this string are that it's the metadata issue confusing the Mac. I also posted a ticket to Roxio.


Bingo! I came to the exact same conclusion. I'm using Popcorn 3 to get files off a Series 3 with 9.2. I can download the .tivo files to the Mac, and I can play them fine with the Toast Video Player. If I open Popcorn and try to convert the .tivo files for the Video iPod, I also get error 1718449215. Since this is an audio problem, I then tried a custom setting where I set the Audio Format to none, and voila -- Popcorn converts the file with no problems at all!

So my educated guess is that Toast/Popcorn use some Apple libraries (Quicktime? Core Audio?) to convert the audio track, yet TiVo 9.x software changed the format for the audio track, which is causing the error.

I also tried TiVoDecode Manager and I have similar problems -- it can download the files from TiVo but not convert them to another format.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

gglockner said:


> So my educated guess is that Toast/Popcorn use some Apple libraries (Quicktime? Core Audio?) to convert the audio track, yet TiVo 9.x software changed the format for the audio track, which is causing the error.


Now that you mention it, my video editing software (VideoReDo, Windows) also complains about tons of audio sync errors on the files that don't work.


----------



## patatrox

I appreciate everyones patience and I believe we now have a viable solution to the issue introduced with the Fall '07 DVR update. We're not quite ready to release this as an official update, as we finish up testing on the release version of Leopard over the next few days.

What I would like to do however is ask if anyone is interested in testing a beta version of Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 with these fixes and provide feedback to me.

UPDATE: < BETA TESTING IS CLOSED >
Thanks!


----------



## raianoat

patatrox said:


> I appreciate everyones patience and I believe we now have a viable solution to the issue introduced with the Fall '07 DVR update. We're not quite ready to release this as an official update, as we finish up testing on the release version of Leopard over the next few days.
> 
> What I would like to do however is ask if anyone is interested in testing a beta version of Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 with these fixes and provide feedback to me.
> 
> If you're a Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 user, please send an e-mail to [email protected] with your name and which product that you own. (Toast 8 or Popcorn 3)
> 
> Thanks!


Thanks for keeping us up to date. Do you expect this update to fix the bug where transferred recordings playback at twice the normal speed?


----------



## patatrox

raianoat said:


> Thanks for keeping us up to date. Do you expect this update to fix the bug where transferred recordings playback at twice the normal speed?


I'm fairly certain it will be included in the updater next week, however I need some feedback and validation of the hanging bug before that can happen.


----------



## gilbreen

Just sent in my request for the beta - will be happy to report back my feedback.


----------



## patatrox

gilbreen said:


> Just sent in my request for the beta - will be happy to report back my feedback.


You know it's comments like that which make me realize how awesome this community is


----------



## jjarmoc

patatrox said:


> I appreciate everyones patience and I believe we now have a viable solution to the issue introduced with the Fall '07 DVR update. We're not quite ready to release this as an official update, as we finish up testing on the release version of Leopard over the next few days.
> 
> What I would like to do however is ask if anyone is interested in testing a beta version of Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 with these fixes and provide feedback to me.
> 
> If you're a Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 user, please send an e-mail to [email protected] with your name and which product that you own. (Toast 8 or Popcorn 3)
> 
> Thanks!


Any chance for those of us waiting for this issue to be fixed before purchasing?

I'd by Popcorn today if I had confirmation it was working with TTG on the S3. Not much interested in Toast because, well, all I want is the TTG feature anyhow!


----------



## griz

I sent in my request as well. I'll be happy to take part in a beta test. Anything that will help in the process and know that Roxio is doing something about this. So far I have only been met with vague answers. If I can be part of the solution. Sign me up.

-Scott


----------



## gilbreen

Transferred a 30 min show from a Tivo HD running 9.1 to my Al Mac with the Tivo Transfer program. Was able to create a DVD and burn it without issues using the beta.

Not sure if Toast always re-encodes the video but it did this time.


----------



## phyd

I wanted to post another somewhat related issue to the recent update. I popped out and bought a brand new Series 3 HD when I heard the wonderful news that TTG was now supported. Unfortunately I'm finding a 1 Hour (7GB) show is being truncated to only 5/6 minutes (~360MB) when transferred to the Mac using TiVO Transfer. Basically most of the show is missing. No hacks involved, just a normal legitimate setup of new Series 3 HD, a Mac, Roxio, and broken downloads. Everything on my series 2 works just fine. Anybody got any ideas?


----------



## Fofer

I've got a Series 3 TiVo with 9.2 software on it.
I've installed TiVo Desktop 1.9.3.

I purchased VisualHub, which gave me software to enable the "Videos" tab in TiVo Desktop.

I convert video with VisualHub (to MPEG-2) and then put it in the correct folder so I can see it from the TiVo... then transfer it over. All of this works fine! The transferred video looks great.

What I'm noticing now, and wondering what's up, is that the timeline of the resulting video isn't in minutes, but rather, in seconds. (I'll see "1600s" instead of "23:00")

Fast forwarding and Rewinding works okay but the "jump back" is often very off (instead of 2-3 seconds, it jumps back 30 or so.) 

So, what's at fault here? The TiVo Desktop software? VisualHub's add-on that makes Video transfer ("TiVo To Go Back") happen? Or TiVo software 9.2?

Most importantly, how do I fix it?


----------



## jayssss

patatrox said:


> We are aware of the metadata issue, that will be fixed in an updater with a tentative release schedule pointing towards the end of this month. As another poster mentions, this will be the same update that fixes Leopard related issues, but failing when burning to DVD was not expected or something we've seen here.
> 
> I'm going to check if my DVR has been updated yet and do some more testing tonight.
> 
> Can anyone else confirm this is happening with all shows TRANSFERRED since the service update, including those that were recorded previous to this update?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Patrick @ Roxio


I can definitely confirm that this is happening. It's been a while since I used the T2G functionality of Toast 8, but was looking to make DVDs of some new shows we just recently recorded to clear space on the Tivo. This was yesterday (10/27/07). Transfer went fine. All files are now on my MBP. However, when attempting to burn a DVD, it brings up the encoding window, and it never moves off of 0%. Going from Tivo Series 2 to MacBook Pro running Toast 8.0.1 and MacOS 10.4.10.


----------



## patatrox

Just to give everyone an update, we're following up several issues reported by beta testers and we're not accepting any additional users at this time. 

To give everyone an idea of the results, most of the hanging at 0% has been resolved although a small number of people are encountering a different error message now.

The metadata not being displayed in TiVo Transfer (Toast 8) and the HD playback issues in Toast Video Player (Toast 8 / Popcorn 3) will be resolved in the update due later this week - it was not part of the beta test.


----------



## patatrox

While it is typically in bad form to reply to yourself, I'll make an exception here. 

The response I received has been overwhelming and I thank everyone for their patience.

I need several people who are experiencing the following issue to e-mail me and potentially test a solution. You must meet both of the below conditions

1) When playing back HD content transferred from a TiVo HD / Series3 DVR, the Toast Video Player shows the video as really choppy or with incorrect speed.

2) You must be a registered Toast 8 or Popcorn 3 user

Please send an e-mail to [email protected] with your contact information and describe the problem you're having quickly. Due to the sheer number of responses you may not receive a reply unless you are selected to test.

Thanks


----------



## pauldf78

Hey Patrick, I sent you guys an email. I would be happy to report my feedback! I'm having issues with playback speed on HD content only.


----------



## Televisionary

Ditto.


----------



## riddick21

Will this update fix the fact that Tivo transfers set to auto encode through popcorn 3 get dropped on to the desktop with no metadata instead of itunes? It would be awesome if I could just tell Tivo Transfer which shows I want to auto transfer and have them automatically put into iTunes ready to be synced to my iPod.


----------



## griz

riddick21 said:


> Will this update fix the fact that Tivo transfers set to auto encode through popcorn 3 get dropped on to the desktop with no metadata instead of itunes? It would be awesome if I could just tell Tivo Transfer which shows I want to auto transfer and have them automatically put into iTunes ready to be synced to my iPod.


My problem precisely.

Although I have an update to report. Last night I had success encoding a file that was transferred post update. I was not however systematic enough to determine why it worked. Earlier in the week I had tried reinstalling popcorn and also had tried removing a plugin. Unfortunately I can not remember what the plugin was. I seem to recall it having something to do with toast (I have popcorn) video player. 
When I removed it, it would not delete because it keps saying it was in use. I restarted and deleted it. After which I was able to encode one file which encoded to my movies folder and was moved into iTunes afterwards. This is the first time that worked for me. 
I then tried a couple other files with no success. After that, the same file I had just encoded would not encode and nothing else would transfer from my Tivo.
Tonight I plan to transfer a known new file from the tivo and try again. I'll likely do a clean install of popcorn after stripping out all its parts.

When I saw the file encode to the movies folder I knew something was working right. I'm not sure if the way I got that to work was by telling popcorn to encode a file to my desktop (which I was doing to test) and then once I saw it working, I decided to select iTunes. Perhaps by setting it to desktop first and then making the switch, something clicked to make it work. 
Unfortunately it got late and I couldn't finish figuring out what was going on.
I have been trying to get Roxio to address the issue with Auto iTunes transfers for over a month. They just say they are "looking into it". I hope that will be resolved in any update that arrive. Although, I do now know it can be made to work. I just need to figure out how.

-Scott


----------



## Fofer

So is no one else seeing the wonky timeline on videos transferred via TiVoToGoBack? It displays the duration in seconds instead of hours:minutes. Is that normal?


----------



## griz

I noticed that videos were indicating they were 2x the length they actually are when I look at the transcode settings.

I find it interesting that there is more discussion on this problem on the Tivo forums than on the Roxio forum.


----------



## Fofer

griz said:


> I noticed that videos were indicating they were 2x the length they actually are when I look at the transcode settings.
> 
> I find it interesting that there is more discussion on this problem on the Tivo forums than on the Roxio forum.


Well considering it's using an unsupported "hack" to even get the TivoToComeBack ("videos" tab) enabled, and I used VisualHub to convert the video, to then send to a brand new TiVo OS (9.2) on a Series 3... I didn't really know who or what to question. Too many variables. One thing I do know, is that there's a bug somewhere. The show's duration (timeline) should be reported in hours and minutes, not thousands of seconds. It also throws off the FF and REW command... as well as the jumpback. It's not reliable at all.

I just wish I knew what software was responsible so I could report it to the appropriate avenue. Does this happen on videos sent from a PC as well? I have to believe not, or else we would have heard about it by now... which leads me to believe it's not TiVo 9.2 causing it. It's something on the Mac. Maybe TiVo Desktop needs to be updated, but officially so that TiVoToComeBack is supported for real, and not by way of the VisualHub "hack?"


----------



## griz

OK, I am at a loss here. Below is a response I just received from Roxio support regarding this issue. I am seeing clearer responses from the users on this forum...


------------------------
Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support

An update to allow the tivo files to work in your Toast application will be released by TIVO.

They are aware of the issue and currently creating a patch for it.

Regards,

Roxio Technical Support
-------------------------

So what am I to believe here? That a fix is coming from Tivo or from Roxio?
Personally I don't care who it comes from, as long as a fix comes. Because right now I have a useless piece of software that is not doing what it promises.


----------



## derekcbart

Hi there.

I'm experiencing something that seems to be a little different than what I have been reading so far.

I recorded an episode of Real Time With Bill Maher that I want to archive to DVD from the HBO HD channel and when 9.1 installed on my S3 it transferred to my computer just fine using TiVo Transfer and it plays back just fine. However, when I hit "Toast It" the application crashes as soon as it goes into "preparing" mode.

I read about the issues and waited for 9.2 to come out and then tested the transfer and burn using a smaller sized show from Cartoon Network and everything worked just fine. I then retransferred the Real Time episode and hit "Toast It" and it crashed as soon as it went into "preparing" mode. It doesn't stall at 1% or 2% like I've read about. It just crashes the Toast application.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


----------



## Sluggo042

griz said:


> An update to allow the tivo files to work in your Toast application will be released by TIVO.


And more to the point, how quickly does TiVo's release cycle work? Roxio can release more or less whenever they're ready, but I can't recall TiVo releases coming any more frequently than about 3 - 6 months.

I've been defending Roxio in other forums about the fact that their advertising claims Tivo compatibility that they're not currently providing. When an update comes along that breaks something, I'm perfectly willing to be patient and understanding for a reasonable length of time while the various parties figure things out. But if we're now going to be stuck with some lengthy TiVo-controlled release cycle, I might begin to think the complainers may have a point.

This would be a really good time for someone from Roxio to keep us in the loop.

(Of course, it would be more appropriate for someone from TiVo to update us, but given the responsiveness I've seen from TiVo on *any* issue, I rate the ressurection of Elvis as slightly more likely.)

Doug G.


----------



## Supermurph

Sluggo042 said:


> This would be a really good time for someone from Roxio to keep us in the loop.
> 
> Doug G.


If you look up a few posts higher within this thread, you will see that Patatrox from Roxio is keeping everyone in the loop and is working on testing the fix with hopes to release it this week.

On the Real Time With Bill Maher issue, that may not be a bug at all. I've recorded Real Time with my Tivo HD and I have the red cross out simple meaning that it can't be copied next to anything from HBO HD. I don't know if HBO or my cable company (Cox) applies this setting, but I can't copy those anyway. So, that may play in to your issue.


----------



## derekcbart

Supermurph said:


> On the Real Time With Bill Maher issue, that may not be a bug at all. I've recorded Real Time with my Tivo HD and I have the red cross out simple meaning that it can't be copied next to anything from HBO HD. I don't know if HBO or my cable company (Cox) applies this setting, but I can't copy those anyway. So, that may play in to your issue.


The Real Time episode doesn't have the red cross out symbol. It simply has a green dot showing that it is set to "save until I delete". Only the TiVoCast episodes have a red cross out symbol on my list of shows in TiVo Transfer.


----------



## pauldf78

Patrick what is the update on this?


----------



## Sluggo042

Supermurph said:


> If you look up a few posts higher within this thread, you will see that Patatrox from Roxio is keeping everyone in the loop and is working on testing the fix with hopes to release it this week.


I most certainly had noted Patatrox's comment. But the information Griz was given seems to contradict what Patatrox said - from what Griz was told, there may be a part of the fix that must come from Tivo. Two incompatible statements. Now, Griz may have been given that info from an un-informed tech support person at Roxio, and I'd certainly take anything Patatrox said as gospel. But I'd sure like him or someone else at Roxio refute or confirm the need for a Tivo update as part of the fix, given what their support people are apparently saying.

Doug G.


----------



## Dr_Zoidberg

Skinny Kid said:


> My Series3 disappeared too. TiVo transfer has no idea where it is. Series2 still shows up fine but hangs while burning just like everyone else's. I am running out of HD space. I only have 22.59 gigs left of a 1 tb drive. I'm dying over here. :down:


I also could not see my TiVoHD in TiVo Transfer last night, even though there was a message on it saying it was ready for TTG. I ended up rebooting the TiVoHD and restarting TiVo Transfer. I could see it after then. Both TiVo's

Make sure your new TiVo is registered with your account and has the same Media Access Key, AND that your new TiVo has a name.

HTH.


----------



## griz

Sluggo042 said:


> I most certainly had noted Patatrox's comment. But the information Griz was given seems to contradict what Patatrox said - from what Griz was told, there may be a part of the fix that must come from Tivo. Two incompatible statements. Now, Griz may have been given that info from an un-informed tech support person at Roxio, and I'd certainly take anything Patatrox said as gospel. But I'd sure like him or someone else at Roxio refute or confirm the need for a Tivo update as part of the fix, given what their support people are apparently saying.
> 
> Doug G.


At this point I have closed my support request with Roxio because they have been less than useful. There is far more being done here as a community than the "text book" answers I seem to be getting from Roxio support. Needless to say, I am not very happy with them right now. Companies like this need to learn that they are dealing with tech savvy users and an answer like that with no informed knowledge behind it seems rather hollow. I am only familiar with Paratrox from this thread, but from what I see, he seems to know more about what is going on than anyone. I'm thankful someone seems to be on top of it. But I am also surprised that I am getting better support from a forum that is neither associated with Tivo or Roxio. 
I'll be patient and see what happens.


----------



## pauldf78

Patrick give us an update here!? Are we waiting for an update from Roxi or tivo? This is getting ridiculous!


----------



## riddick21

I just got a turbo.264 and really need popcorn to work.


----------



## riddick21

turbo.264 is slower than I expected from the reviews. Its actually really fast with the bundled program but its not nearly as fast for popcorn. Will this be addressed anytime soon?


----------



## griz

So where are we on a solution on this? I have been having some luck getting files to transcode. I can't figure out any pattern. Some work and some don't. I just don't have the time to try and figure out why.
I'm now wishing I bought Popcorn at a retail store. I would have returned it by now for a refund. How would it ever be possible to get a refund on a digital download?
Caveat Emptor!


----------



## Supermurph

I just noticed that a public beta for the Popcorn update was put on the Roxio site by Patatrox (who has been posting in this thread and soliciting feedback). From the description, it fixes the hanging at 0% issue and the HD playback speed issue as well as others.

I'm in the middle of my first conversion into an iPhone copy right now and it's farther than I ever got before. I used to get a "Mac OS X Error" and I'm currently at 50% complete and still running. So far, so good.

You can read the information and download the Popcorn 3 beta with this link:

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=30179

I didn't see anything there for Toast yet.


----------



## riddick21

the beta seems to be working but the auto import to itunes bug is still there. Paratox can you look in to this? What happens is that if you have auto encode set in tivotransfer then after popcorn finishes encoding, it dumps the file on to the desktop instead of itunes. Then if you try to open the file it will start copying to itunes but none of the show info is there. I would assume this shouldn't be too hard to fix because it works right if we initiate the encoding in popcorn rather than tivotransfer.


----------



## griz

riddick21 said:


> the beta seems to be working but the auto import to itunes bug is still there. Paratox can you look in to this? What happens is that if you have auto encode set in tivotransfer then after popcorn finishes encoding, it dumps the file on to the desktop instead of itunes. Then if you try to open the file it will start copying to itunes but none of the show info is there. I would assume this shouldn't be too hard to fix because it works right if we initiate the encoding in popcorn rather than tivotransfer.


I have been having the same problem. I think I may have found a way to get it to work.
If you manually choose desktop as your destination for automatic transfers and transfer a file. It will go to the desktop as selected. After that, change your setting to itunes and re-transfer the same file. It will go directly into itunes. I have only tried this with one file, but it worked. I have not tried more files afterwards so I don't know how permanent it is. 
My way is just a hack. It should work all the time. It looks like some sort of flag is not being set to tell the autotransfer to go to the chosen place. Yes, this should be very easy to fix if someone would have a look at it.


----------



## riddick21

griz said:


> I have been having the same problem. I think I may have found a way to get it to work.
> If you manually choose desktop as your destination for automatic transfers and transfer a file. It will go to the desktop as selected. After that, change your setting to itunes and re-transfer the same file. It will go directly into itunes. I have only tried this with one file, but it worked. I have not tried more files afterwards so I don't know how permanent it is.
> My way is just a hack. It should work all the time. It looks like some sort of flag is not being set to tell the autotransfer to go to the chosen place. Yes, this should be very easy to fix if someone would have a look at it.


doesn't work


----------



## griz

Supermurph said:


> I just noticed that a public beta for the Popcorn update was put on the Roxio site by Patatrox (who has been posting in this thread and soliciting feedback). From the description, it fixes the hanging at 0% issue and the HD playback speed issue as well as others.
> 
> I'm in the middle of my first conversion into an iPhone copy right now and it's farther than I ever got before. I used to get a "Mac OS X Error" and I'm currently at 50% complete and still running. So far, so good.
> 
> You can read the information and download the Popcorn 3 beta with this link:
> 
> http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=30179
> 
> I didn't see anything there for Toast yet.


Thanks Supermurph for bringing this to the attention of this thread.


----------



## griz

riddick21 said:


> doesn't work


Sorry to hear that. I was able to get it to transfer directly into iTunes, but it only worked for me one time. I'm hoping that we see a fix for this as well.


----------



## drm814

I have Popcorn 3 to transfer my tivo to go file from my Mac to my Video Nano Ipod and had that same hang at 0% problem that I have read about on this thread.

Last night, I downloaded the Popcorn 3 Beta (3.0.2b7) and now my transfers work!!!

Try it!


----------



## patdaddy

That's nice for Popcorn. What about Toast users? I've been dead in the water for over a week!


----------



## joebrod

Diddo. . . what about a toast update? I'm only using it for trancoding to ipod/appletv.

My HD files that I have xferred to my mac using TTG playback @ an accelerated speed - roughly 2x - is this related to the same issue? I am using the toast tivo player for playback.

Intially, I ended up switching to Elgato Products (because of no TTG on my S3) which works FABULOUS for watching TV on your mac and effortlessly exporting non scrambled cable/OTA TV to my ipod/itunes/appletv. My premium content is on the S3


----------



## griz

The popcorn update includes toast video player. That fixes the 2x playback. Not sure if you can grab the toast player from the popcorn update.


----------



## Dennis Wilkinson

griz said:


> The popcorn update includes toast video player. That fixes the 2x playback. Not sure if you can grab the toast player from the popcorn update.


You can. Download the beta, unzip it, and right-click on the icon in the Finder and do a "Show Package Contents". Look in Contents > Resources, the video player is in there, as well as an .tar.gz archive containing a working version of TiVo Transfer.


----------



## riddick21

griz said:


> Sorry to hear that. I was able to get it to transfer directly into iTunes, but it only worked for me one time. I'm hoping that we see a fix for this as well.


Paratox said the final release will fix this issue


----------



## griz

I have been playing around with the Beta and have had great success getting files to encode. However, I have run into a couple of shows that have audio sync issues. They are all encoded with the same settings, but some have sync problems and others don't.
I seem to recall mention that this can occur if the file had black frames at the beginning. This is not the case though with one of my files.
Is there an easy way to fix audio sync that isn't a complicated hack.
Better question is, why is it happening in the first place. 
The show I am mainly having trouble with is Mythbusters.
Anyone else having sync issues?


----------



## griz

riddick21 said:


> Paratox said the final release will fix this issue


Great to hear. I am looking forward to Popcorn working as I expected it to from the beginning. It will be great if I can just set up auto transfers and have shows automatically appear on my AppleTV. Ideally, I will be able to set the Tivo to auto delete after a couple of days, then access all my shows from the AppleTV and forget about the Tivo.
This way I can archive an entire season of a show that I might want to watch at a later time. I fell behind on a lot of shows during MLB post season and my Tivo got filled up. I had to scurry to get stuff off it and that was where popcorn was supposed to help. Looking forward to the final fix. I appreciate anyone who has had a hand in making this happen.


----------



## Timber

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> You can. Download the beta, unzip it, and right-click on the icon in the Finder and do a "Show Package Contents". Look in Contents > Resources, the video player is in there, as well as an .tar.gz archive containing a working version of TiVo Transfer.


I'm a Toast user. I found the Toast Video Player and TiVo Transfer for Popcorn but the TiVo Transfer doesn't appear to play the videos in the list. Old TiVo Transfer however does appear to have stopped the 2x behavior on a file I transfered with "old" TiVo Transfer (is that the new Video Player behaving itself?) and the titles do list correctly.

-=Tim=-


----------



## griz

I am continuing to have audio sync issues and now I am having another issue entirely that I hadn't seen before. Shows that are showing up fine in tivo transfer and playing in the video player are encoding only a minute or two in and then freezing at 100%. Popcorn actually shows the progress bar moving fast toward 100% in about 1 or 2 minutes and the final file is not the complete video.
I have tried retransferring from the tivo and still no luck. Anyone else experiencing this? This is with the Beta download. 
-Scott G.

EDIT: My mistake above. I incorrectly noted they show up correctly in toast player and they do not. The file size seems proper for the transfer, but a 30 minute show comes in at 1:17. I have no idea what is going on here.


----------



## Sparkylulu

So, what is happening with this? 
I still get the n/a data. I still can't encode. I need a patch or an update or something or I have a brick sitting in my bedroom and an unusable program wasting space on my mac.
help?


----------



## patdaddy

And...still no fix for something that was working perfectly fine before HBO decided to air all 3 Star Wars episodes. 3 episodes that now sit on my TIVO unable to transfer to my IPOD. Geeshh....If I had more time, I'd find a better solution. So I guess this is a problem with Toast and Tivo's update. Or is it both?


----------



## griz

patdaddy said:


> And...still no fix for something that was working perfectly fine before HBO decided to air all 3 Star Wars episodes. 3 episodes that now sit on my TIVO unable to transfer to my IPOD. Geeshh....If I had more time, I'd find a better solution. So I guess this is a problem with Toast and Tivo's update. Or is it both?


Have you tried the popcorn beta? Check Roxio's site. As for toast, I am not sure. But the Tivo transfer program is included with the Popcorn app so you might be able to extract it.


----------



## wilbecker

Does anyone know the ETA for the update to the Tivo system? I'd really love to have my auto-transfers working again.

Not to mention that the funky file name is annoying!


----------



## cwoody222

Just FYI: I'm still getting audio sync issues with both the latest and greatest (beta) updates for Popcorn and Toast in Leopard.


----------



## griz

cwoody222 said:


> Just FYI: I'm still getting audio sync issues with both the latest and greatest (beta) updates for Popcorn and Toast in Leopard.


Same here only I am running it under Tiger. The audio sync issue is still a problem, however, it only occurs on some shows. Doesn't seems to be specific to any one channel.


----------



## Sluggo042

Too bad no one could tell us here directly, but the following was posted on MacFixIt.com over the last couple of days:

"Official word from Roxio: Toast updater is coming

We've received the following note from Roxio that we wanted to pass along:

I am the PR manager at Roxio and wanted to follow-up on Mondays posting titled Leopard: Incompatible third-party software and hardware (part 2). Just wanted to let you know that over the last few months, Roxios Mac team has been testing our products with beta versions of Apples Leopard version of Mac OS X. We have identified some compatibility issues between Leopard and Toast 7 which we plan to release updaters to address. We hope to complete the final test and release the updaters to registered users early next week. Thank you for your patience as we work to ensure our products run well on Apples exciting new Mac OS X release."

http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20071107180517848

End of quote

Of course, it doesn't mention our TiVo problems, but one can hope that the fixes we need will be included in this release.

Doug G.


----------



## berkon

Like some in this thread, I had transferred Shows from Tivo to my PC and couldn't transfer them back. I used Video redo to reencode the files as mpg's and then,was able to transfer a show, though it took several attempts, and quite a while. Also, it seemed if I deleted another program while the show was transferring to Tivo, the transfer would cancel.

Shows recorded directly to my PC also seem longer to tranfer to the Tivo


----------



## riddick21

Popcorn is still broken. Its officially out of beta and it still doesn't import encoded files to itunes like its supposed to. It finally imports the file into itunes but it doesn't have the show info. I will never buy Roxio software. I as well as others have explained this problem clearly both before and during the beta. Now that this is out of beta I doubt this will be fixed any time soon. I got this program specifically to automate the process of getting shows from my TiVo to my iPod because that was the one feature that was lacking in toast. Now I have two pieces of software that can do a bunch of things i don't need them to do and not the one ADVERTISED thing that I got them for TiVoTo*Go*. If you have any desire to appease your users please fix this with the Toast update because we all know another popcorn update is not likely for months, if even that.


----------



## galfridus73

Sluggo042 said:


> Of course, it doesn't mention our TiVo problems, but one can hope that the fixes we need will be included in this release.


To be fair, most Toast users probably are not TiVo users (out of the five or so Toast users I know, I'm the only TiVo user), so they're more concerned about communicating with the bulk of the Toast users who want to upgrade to Leopard.

However, you would think the PR manager would put something on the Roxio forums to say things are being worked on for us, too. I'm sure Roxio saw a bit of an increase in sales when they got the TTG deal for Toast and Popcorn.


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## wickerbill

Yeah, tivo support is a big reason why I purchased Toast. TIvo needs to do a much better job keeping Roxio on top of stuff like this if they're going to make them our only way to do stuff that people on PC's can do for free or at a much reduced rate than what mac users have to pay.


----------



## wdave

Just found this thread. I bought Toast to transfer and export programs from my S3 for my iPhone. I haven't been able to get it to work. Toast either crashes about 5 seconds into the conversion process, or it hangs without making any progress.

I opened a tech support ticket with Roxio and received this response just now:


> Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support
> 
> This issue appears to have been caused by conflicts introduced in the TiVo Fall update. We are currently working with TiVo technicians to find and resolve this issue. We will post an update to our website as soon as it is available.


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## Dr_Zoidberg

Am I the only one who isn't having a problem? I don't transfer files that often, but the ones I have work fine.

I've been transferring from an S2 and an S3.


----------



## Televisionary

The Toast 8.0.3 update is now available:

http://www.roxio.com/enu/support/toast/software_updates.html

-T


----------



## Televisionary

Popcorn 3.0.2, too:

http://www.roxio.com/enu/support/popcorn/software_updatesv3.html

-T


----------



## Sluggo042

I have installed the 8.0.3 Toast Update.

Good Part: It does indeed correct the parsing problems that started this whole thing off. Transfers work.

Bad Part: I encoded a program that i'd transferred earlier before the release of the 8.0.3 Update. Encoded fine, burned it to disc. Result - the program plays with badly synced audio, about a half-second delay after the video. Makes the progam look like a badly dubbed Japanese monster movie. This is the exact problem I had with the Beta test, which I duly reported to Roxio. No response on their part. I'd hoped that meant they knew about the problem, but I guess that was a foolish thought on my part.

Well, this sucks, I thought the drought was over. Damn!

Of course, there's always the chance that this is something personal to my setup. I'd be curious to hear the results other folk are getting. I also need to test if this happens with shows transferred using the new TivoTransfer program.

Doug G.


----------



## galfridus73

Sluggo042 said:


> Of course, there's always the chance that this is something personal to my setup. I'd be curious to hear the results other folk are getting.


I'm downloading the patch as I type this, so I'll be playing with the results throughout the day when I get a chance. I'll let you know what I see here.


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## spaceacedl2

Even with the 8.0.3 update for Toast, I am still unable to see the programs from my TiVo that I transferred to my mac using TiVo Transfer.

I get a message on my TiVo that there are no programs.

Using the new TiVo Transfer... I copied a program from my TiVo, Stopped and Started TiVo Desktop, then looked in my shared video folder on my TiVo in the now playing list, but I did not see the new program I just transferred.

I still don't think the video sharing is officially supported yet, but it WAS working before the latest TiVo update.

However, even in the new TiVo Transfer, I still get an "N/A" for the channel it was recorded from in the TiVo Recordings list. Even though it shows the channel correctly when I view my TiVo through TiVo Transfer.


----------



## minckster

spaceacedl2 said:


> Even with the 8.0.3 update for Toast, I am still unable to see the programs from my TiVo that I transferred to my mac using TiVo Transfer.


 TiVo, not Roxio, needs to update TiVo Desktop for Mac to transfer .tivo files _back_ to the TiVo. With Toast or Popcorn, you should now be able to download programs to your Mac and transfer them to DVDs or iPods, etc. You should also be able to transfer MPEG-2 files (.mpeg) to your TiVo.

To test whether you've got everything working, you can download the following TiVo-compliant MPEG-2 and see if you can get it to transfer to your TiVo (d/l the "Sample Video Clip [MPEG2]"):
http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/dvrchive.cfm


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> I have installed the 8.0.3 Toast Update.
> 
> Good Part: It does indeed correct the parsing problems that started this whole thing off. Transfers work.
> 
> Bad Part: I encoded a program that i'd transferred earlier before the release of the 8.0.3 Update. Encoded fine, burned it to disc. Result - the program plays with badly synced audio, about a half-second delay after the video. Makes the progam look like a badly dubbed Japanese monster movie. This is the exact problem I had with the Beta test, which I duly reported to Roxio. No response on their part. I'd hoped that meant they knew about the problem, but I guess that was a foolish thought on my part.
> 
> Well, this sucks, I thought the drought was over. Damn!
> 
> Of course, there's always the chance that this is something personal to my setup. I'd be curious to hear the results other folk are getting. I also need to test if this happens with shows transferred using the new TivoTransfer program.
> 
> Doug G.


Eagerly downloaded the Toast 8.03 release and installed it only to find that the sync problem still exists and there are a couple of new problems. Hopefully, I can explain coherently.

Disc Burn 1:

2 TiVo files of 1'0" and 1'4", being burned to one DVD, which had encoded successfully with both the previous release version and the beta you sent me, but had A/V sync problems with the second show only now did the same - that is encoded, but had the same sync problem. What's new is the thermometer, in the progress window is now funky. With the previous versions, it accurately displayed the status of the process (except, of course the time estimates). It now proceeded to around 8%, during the encoding process and stayed there for a significant period of time. It then showed 23% and stayed there for around 10 minutes, at which point it returned to 8% and stayed there until it started to burn the disc during which it remained at 8% through "writing the lead out" and then displayed the "disk ready" dialog box. Strangely, the progress indicator, in dock icon, seemed to be reasonably correct, it did not remain at 8%. Quit Toast.

Disk Burn 2:

Launched Toast 8.03 again. Single TiVo file, 2'15" which previously hung at 1% during encoding. Encoding process proceeded normally but appeared to hang at 37%, at which point I stopped it and restarted the Mac. Launched Toast and started burn again which seemed to complete normally, but the disk had A/V sync problems, as well.

This is pretty disappointing.


----------



## galfridus73

spaceacedl2 said:


> I still don't think the video sharing is officially supported yet, but it WAS working before the latest TiVo update.


I have the same issue, but that's probably related to the change in metadata that Toast ran into trouble with. The problem for us is, since it isn't supported on the Mac yet, we have to hope that TiVo is going to deliver an updated TiVo Desktop for the Mac, with the video tab enabled and the metadata issue fixed.

Come on, TiVo - the feature's there, just officially enable it and support it for us, please (I'm fine with it being either TiVo Desktop 1.9.4 or 2.0 or whatever - I just want feature parity with Windows)!


----------



## galfridus73

I'm going to try burning a movie from before the Fall update and see what happens.

I'm starting to wonder: I burned an episode of Dog Whisperer from my Series3 and had no AV sync issues. I exported (to iTunes) four episodes of Torchwood from my Series2 and had horrible AV sync.

Maybe it's something about the S2 that's causing the sync problem?

I should say that playing any video through the Toast Video Player does not cause any issues at all - the sync is just fine on video from either the S2 or the S3.

I'm going to play around some more and see.


----------



## galfridus73

Well, after burning both a pre-update recording and a post-update recording, I can agree 100&#37; with Doug:

The DVD audio sync for recordings previous to the update is bad. Really bad. We're not talking fractions of a second, we're talking at least 1.5 or 2 seconds off.

Furthermore, that same issue exists for the iPod export, and that's a huge showstopper for me. I travel on a regular basis and I do take TTG videos with me to watch while traveling. If this sort of bug can't be addressed then I will seriously have to look at a solution other than those from Roxio.

I have to assume that something has to be tweaked on Toast's end. Even if it's something we have to do manually in the time being, I'm fine with that. But I can't have Gwen speaking with Owen's voice when I'm trying to catch up on Torchwood. That's just disturbing.


----------



## javabird

I've burned 2 disks so far with the update and no sync issues. I have an S2 DT.


----------



## Sluggo042

Javabird,

I'm seeing variable results on the burns that I've done - some of mine seem to be ok, others have very significant sync delays. Also, I've got at least one that started out ok, but gradually lost sync, so you may want to go through the entire program before you decide they're ok.

Doug G.


----------



## Sluggo042

galfridus,

What are you using as a video source for your Tivo? Cable, Satellite?

The reason I'm asking: I've not talked about it in this thread, not wanting to complicate the issue, but I'm pretty sure Tivo has made at least one change to how they handle an encoded video file when they put out the Update. Prior to the update, I had a problem whenever there was a video glitch in the source signal. I use a Dish Network satellite feed, and occasionally get brief losses in the signal in my setup. Watching the program in real time on the Tivo, I see the video hiccup/freeze briefly, pixelate/macroblock heavily, then recover. Annoying, but no biggie.

However, if I take the program with the same hiccup, and tried to transfer it to my Mac, Tivo-to-Go would only transfer up to the point of that hiccup. The problem was definitely on the Tivo side, because I got the same result with the web-server method of file transfer built into the Tivo for any problematic files. Apparently, the Tivo just gave up when it stumbled over the point in the file where the hiccup was.

Since the Update, I have not had a single file truncated as I've just described. On some of these, I know there were video glitches. I'm wondering now if that, in trying to fix the truncated transfers, that the new Tivo software is incorrectly synchronizing the audio only on files containing some sort of glitches. Perhaps they lose a little more video than audio, or lose some sort of key frame information vital to maintaining correct sync. This might explain why Roxio didn't catch this bug in their in-lab testing - lab testing usually uses a known-good source material, and the loss of sync would only be seen in situations where the source is less than pristine.

So, those of you seeing audio sync problems, did you also use to see the truncated file transfers prior to the Tivo Fall Update? Does your source signal occasional break up or otherwise impaired?

Doug G.


----------



## galfridus73

Sluggo042 said:


> What are you using as a video source for your Tivo? Cable, Satellite?


Doug: It's cable (Comcast). With the Series3 I currently have no choice but cable as the satellite providers don't do CableCards (at least currently).


----------



## galfridus73

minckster said:


> TiVo, not Roxio, needs to update TiVo Desktop for Mac to transfer .tivo files _back_ to the TiVo. With Toast or Popcorn, you should now be able to download programs to your Mac and transfer them to DVDs or iPods, etc. You should also be able to transfer MPEG-2 files (.mpeg) to your TiVo.


Well, I can also that TiVo Desktop for Mac is not publishing .tivo files back to the TiVo boxes on the network.

However, I fired up Windows XP in Parallels and set up TiVo Desktop for Windows in it and everything is published across the network, so it's not something wrong with the files themselves.

This is simply a question of TiVo updating a feature they don't support and have never publicized in a software package they pay very little attention to.

Hmmmm.

Maybe I'll just set up a headless XP box on the network and make it a TiVo video server. Bah.


----------



## Sluggo042

galfridus73 said:


> Doug: It's cable (Comcast). With the Series3 I currently have no choice but cable as the satellite providers don't do CableCards (at least currently).


And prior to the Tivo Update, had you ever encountered the truncated transfer problem, i.e. had some files only partially transfer from Tivo to Mac?


----------



## galfridus73

Sluggo042 said:


> And prior to the Tivo Update, had you ever encountered the truncated transfer problem, i.e. had some files only partially transfer from Tivo to Mac?


No, never. I actually have excellent reception on my cable and very rarely have dropouts (or, if I do, they aren't on shows I watch).


----------



## Sluggo042

galfridus73 said:


> No, never. I actually have excellent reception on my cable and very rarely have dropouts (or, if I do, they aren't on shows I watch).


Curious. I was a little concerned that only people who had less than pristine signals would encounter this problem, and that those of us with such signals would form only a small fraction of the already small fraction of Tivo-to-Go users of Toast and Popcorn. Frankly, the more people who have this difficulty the better at this point, as this will presumably force Roxio and Tivo to address it more quickly. I only hope it is something they can easily figure out. I've dealt a little with mpeg streams in the past, and there's lots of ways they can get screwed up. The original metadata problem may have been straightforward to solve in comparison.

Thanks for the info.

Doug G.


----------



## wdave

Sluggo042 said:


> I have installed the 8.0.3 Toast Update.
> 
> Bad Part: ... the program plays with badly synced audio, about a half-second delay after the video.


Same here.

How could they have released it with such a blatant, easy to notice, problem?


----------



## Sluggo042

I would strongly urge everyone experiencing this audio/video sync problem to contact Roxio Support, and file a trouble ticket. Since we're seeing no response from Roxio on this issue on this board, who knows to what extent they're aware of the bug. With support tickets filed, Roxio's management will be officially notified that a problem exists. This seemed to be a factor prompting them to address the original Tivo Transfer bug in 8.0.1.

Go to http://selfserve.roxio.com. You'll have to log in with an account as a registered user, but there's a link there that will let you set one up if you don't already have one. Try to give all the relevant facts you can think of - Mac setup, Tivo type, etc. Remember that they'll probably be wading through a lot of these, so save (for now) the diatribes. Just get them some data that might help them nail down the source of this bug. Maybe this will help them come up with a fix.

Doug G.


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## wildcardd

Interesting...after the update, I had one show already transfered to my mac. When I encoded that one, it had audio sync issues. When I downloaded a new show, those didn't have the sync problem. 

I didn't see anyone describe that they tried re-downloading the shows after the update.

Have you guys tried re downloading the show with the audio sync issues? 

I am doing that as we speak..will post later with the results.


----------



## Sluggo042

I've definitely seen audio sync problems on programs recorded and transferred using only Toast 8.0.3 tools. But I will note that some programs are worse than others - I've not detected any rhyme or reason as to why though. Maybe you just lucked out with that first new show? I'd be interested to hear if you're seeing that consistently.

Doug G.


----------



## skankerp

I retransferred programs from as far back as 1/14/07 from my S2 Tivo to Mac and tried burning... Encoding works great now, but resulting disk also has terrible sync issues. Issue is also happening with shows recorded after Fall 2007 update. I submitted a trouble ticket with roxio, we'll see if I get any response. I'm about ready to just start using XP on Parallels for all my Tivo needs and dump Roxio, ugh


----------



## Sluggo042

skankerp said:


> I'm about ready to just start using XP on Parallels for all my Tivo needs and dump Roxio, ugh


I was just about to reflexively point out that this could be a Tivo-side problem just as easily as it being Roxio's fault, but then I realized that I've not seen any long threads of angry PC users complaining about sync issues lately, suggesting that their software is working. So I guess that kind of suggests that it is something to do with Roxio's implementation of the Tivo encoding process.

Thanks for the data points!

Doug G.


----------



## wildcardd

Crap...same show same audio issues. Weird stuff happening.


----------



## skankerp

Just got a response from Roxio saying to uninstall Quicktime version 7.3 and go back to version 7.1.. going to try this, I have my doubts though


----------



## javabird

Please keep us updated on your results.


----------



## Mike-W

I am running 10.5 w/ Quicktime 7.2.1 on a new MBP. With Toast 8.0.3 any program recorded before the Fall 2007 Update has audio sync issues. Any program recorded with the Fall 2007 Update burns fine with 8.0.3. 

I will try the same tests with Toast 8.0.3 on a Mac Pro running 10.4.10 with Quicktime 7.2.


----------



## javabird

Sluggo042 said:


> Javabird,
> 
> I'm seeing variable results on the burns that I've done - some of mine seem to be ok, others have very significant sync delays. Also, I've got at least one that started out ok, but gradually lost sync, so you may want to go through the entire program before you decide they're ok.
> 
> Doug G.


Yes, after further tests I've noticed that some videos are out of sync, some are not. As others have mentioned, shows from some tv channels are worse.


----------



## wildcardd

skankerp said:


> Just got a response from Roxio saying to uninstall Quicktime version 7.3 and go back to version 7.1.. going to try this, I have my doubts though


Well if you are running Tiger, you can test this, but some of us Leopard users are screwed as we won't be able to install 7.2 let alone 7.1.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is just a delay tactic on the part of the Roxio Tech.


----------



## Sluggo042

wildcardd said:


> Well if you are running Tiger, you can test this, but some of us Leopard users are screwed as we won't be able to install 7.2 let alone 7.1.
> 
> I have a sneaking suspicion that this is just a delay tactic on the part of the Roxio Tech.


There are still some experiments I need to run using data points mentioned by Roxio and in this thread in others. However, one of the first things Roxio Support asked me after filing my support ticket was what version of Quicktime I was using. I'm using QT 7.1.6 on OS X 10.4.9, and I'm definitely having audio sync problems. Therefore, I conclude that backgrading from QT 7.3 may not be the answer.

My next line of inquiry will be to start cleaning out older versions of Toast to see if that helps. I'll post results if I come up with anything interesting.

Doug G.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> There are still some experiments I need to run using data points mentioned by Roxio and in this thread in others. However, one of the first things Roxio Support asked me after filing my support ticket was what version of Quicktime I was using. I'm using QT 7.1.6 on OS X 10.4.9, and I'm definitely having audio sync problems. Therefore, I conclude that backgrading from QT 7.3 may not be the answer.
> 
> My next line of inquiry will be to start cleaning out older versions of Toast to see if that helps. I'll post results if I come up with anything interesting.
> 
> Doug G.


I was having A/V sync issues using 10.4.9 and am having them using 10.5.


----------



## wildcardd

Here is another point of data. For me at least, I have 1 show that has the audio sync issue. Recorded on 10/10 which is right around the time my Tivo updated its firmware. I haven't run into an audio sync issue for a recording after 10/10. I have encoded 10 or so shows after this date.

I am going to try encoding a show before 10/10. Stay tuned.

Are you guys seeing the issue with audio sync before AND after your Tivo firmware updates?


----------



## Sluggo042

wildcardd said:


> Here is another point of data. For me at least, I have 1 show that has the audio sync issue. Recorded on 10/10 which is right around the time my Tivo updated its firmware. I haven't run into an audio sync issue for a recording after 10/10. I have encoded 10 or so shows after this date.
> 
> I am going to try encoding a show before 10/10. Stay tuned.
> 
> Are you guys seeing the issue with audio sync before AND after your Tivo firmware updates?


I'm definitely seeing the audio sync problem on stuff recorded after the Tivo Fall 2007 Update.

These programs that you've successfully encoded - were you encoding them for burn to DVD, or for some other application?

Doug G.


----------



## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> I was having A/V sync issues using 10.4.9 and am having them using 10.5.


Did you go straight from 10.4.9 to 10.5? I received a message from Roxio support today that suggested that 10.4.9 needs to be updated. But it really sounds to me like they're shotgunning for a solution - trying a bunch of random things in the vague hope that something will solve the issue without actually going to the trouble of diagnosing what's wrong. I'll update 10.4 if I have to, but its a hassle with the chance that something else will be broken by modifying my system software.

I suppose i should ask this: Is anyone seeing the audio sync issue who is also using whatever the latest version of 10.4 (10.4.11, I think)?

Doug G.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> Did you go straight from 10.4.9 to 10.5? I received a message from Roxio support today that suggested that 10.4.9 needs to be updated. But it really sounds to me like they're shotgunning for a solution - trying a bunch of random things in the vague hope that something will solve the issue without actually going to the trouble of diagnosing what's wrong. I'll update 10.4 if I have to, but its a hassle with the chance that something else will be broken by modifying my system software.
> 
> I suppose i should ask this: Is anyone seeing the audio sync issue who is also using whatever the latest version of 10.4 (10.4.11, I think)?
> 
> Doug G.


I was using the latest version of 10.4, and getting the sync issues, before updating to 10.5 and getting the sync issues. At least they're still bothering to send YOU messages.


----------



## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> I was using the latest version of 10.4, and getting the sync issues, before updating to 10.5 and getting the sync issues. At least they're still bothering to send YOU messages.


The communication is taking place through the support ticket I filed. They make a suggestion, and then I try it if it makes any sort of sense. I think their policy is that they have to respond to support tickets.

Doug G.


----------



## Sparkylulu

point of interest. I am not seeing audio problems in the Roxio player. BUT when I transfer from Roxio to ipod I do have the same problem. I guess I really should contact roxio but the toast people are quicker to communicate here than there. I never got an answer to a ticket I opened at the start of this wole thing.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> The communication is taking place through the support ticket I filed. They make a suggestion, and then I try it if it makes any sort of sense. I think their policy is that they have to respond to support tickets.
> 
> Doug G.


Doug,

I did file a support ticket, but they merely replied that, since I had been communicating with Patrick, they weren't going to bother.

Jon


----------



## skankerp

I am running 10.5 and tried the complete uninstall and reinstall with same issue. That is for shows before AND after the Fall 2007 update. I don't know if it's just not possible to downgrade to previous quicktime versions on 10.5 but I haven't been able to do it


----------



## Sluggo042

skankerp said:


> I am running 10.5 and tried the complete uninstall and reinstall with same issue. That is for shows before AND after the Fall 2007 update. I don't know if it's just not possible to downgrade to previous quicktime versions on 10.5 but I haven't been able to do it


I don't think downgrading would help you even if you knew how to do it. As I've said, I'm running earlier versions of both OSX and QT, and I'm having the sync problem.

My last com with Roxio Support told me to update OSX to 10.4.11. I asked them if they knew for certain if that was a fix, or if they were still shotgunning solutions without having actually diagnosed the actual cause. That was two days ago, and they've apparently stopped talking to me. I thought it was a fair question.

Doug G.


----------



## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> I did file a support ticket, but they merely replied that, since I had been communicating with Patrick, they weren't going to bother.


So did Patrick say anything about what's going on in your communication with him? Did he acknowledge that there really is a problem here? I sure wish he or someone in the know would pass a tidbit or two of knowledge our way.

Doug G.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> So did Patrick say anything about what's going on in your communication with him? Did he acknowledge that there really is a problem here? I sure wish he or someone in the know would pass a tidbit or two of knowledge our way.
> 
> Doug G.


No. He's been incommunicado for 10 days or more.


----------



## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> No. He's been incommunicado for 10 days or more.


Ouch - so Roxio is being punative in not answering you because you have in the past talked to someone who will also no longer speak with you. Harsh! I wonder if Patrick has had his hand slapped for <gasp> actually communicating with users.

They're not answering my last question to them either, no explanation offered. Maybe they're just taking the month between Thanksgiving and Xmas off.

Doug G.


----------



## javabird

Sluggo042 said:


> So did Patrick say anything about what's going on in your communication with him? Did he acknowledge that there really is a problem here? I sure wish he or someone in the know would pass a tidbit or two of knowledge our way.
> 
> Doug G.


They are working on it. See his Nov 16 note here: http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=30848

"We have also received feedback through beta testing that a limited number of TiVo users are still experiencing audio and video synchronization issues. We are continuing to work on a resolution for this problem and will provide more information as it becomes available."


----------



## Sluggo042

javabird said:


> They are working on it. See his Nov 16 note here: http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=30848
> 
> "We have also received feedback through beta testing that a limited number of TiVo users are still experiencing audio and video synchronization issues. We are continuing to work on a resolution for this problem and will provide more information as it becomes available."


JavaBird,

Thank you for pointing that out, as I wouldn't have run across that on my own. It's good to have, at the very least, something public said on the subject.

Having said that, I would point out that thread has less than 900 views. This thread currently has over 11,500. Its sister thread on the Roxio Board also has over 10,000 views. Both threads are serving as magnet and clearing house for users suffering from the Audio Sync bug. Wouldn't it have made a tad more sense for information regarding this problem to be posted in one of these spots?

Doug G.


----------



## riddick21

javabird said:


> They are working on it. See his Nov 16 note here: http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=30848
> 
> "We have also received feedback through beta testing that a limited number of TiVo users are still experiencing audio and video synchronization issues. We are continuing to work on a resolution for this problem and will provide more information as it becomes available."


while they're at it they should fix the itunes import issue.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> Ouch - so Roxio is being punative in not answering you because you have in the past talked to someone who will also no longer speak with you. Harsh! I wonder if Patrick has had his hand slapped for <gasp> actually communicating with users.
> 
> They're not answering my last question to them either, no explanation offered. Maybe they're just taking the month between Thanksgiving and Xmas off.
> 
> Doug G.


That's definitely it. They're taking the month off...


----------



## shulcslt

javabird said:


> They are working on it. See his Nov 16 note here: http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=30848
> 
> "We have also received feedback through beta testing that a limited number of TiVo users are still experiencing audio and video synchronization issues. We are continuing to work on a resolution for this problem and will provide more information as it becomes available."


I was one of those he was talking to about it and he's been silent about it since around that time - not posting here, on Roxio's board or responding to emails.


----------



## wildcardd

Sluggo042 said:


> I'm definitely seeing the audio sync problem on stuff recorded after the Tivo Fall 2007 Update.
> 
> These programs that you've successfully encoded - were you encoding them for burn to DVD, or for some other application?
> 
> Doug G.


Sorry been out of commission for a few days (wisdom teeth...uggh)

I was encoding for my iPod on the "fastest" option.

It seems to me that there is something wrong with their encoder tools since the player appears to play the audio just fine.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

Sluggo042 said:


> I was just about to reflexively point out that this could be a Tivo-side problem just as easily as it being Roxio's fault, but then I realized that I've not seen any long threads of angry PC users complaining about sync issues lately, suggesting that their software is working. So I guess that kind of suggests that it is something to do with Roxio's implementation of the Tivo encoding process.
> 
> Thanks for the data points!
> 
> Doug G.


(Raises hand) There's at least one PC user having audio sync problems since the Fall Update. It's only on my Humax TiVo, not my "TiVo TiVo" (for lack of a better name for it). I get the same problems when transferring via the web browser. No Roxio, no Mac in this setup. It is an issue with the TiVo's encoding for transfer, and I am 99 percent sure it has to do with dropouts / glitches in the video.

I've sent lots of information to TiVo and VideoRedo (which I use to post-process the files) and I haven't gotten very far. VideoRedo has nothing to do with the problem, I was just hoping their engineers could take a look at the corrupted file & identify where the TiVo is messing up, but I guess they're too busy with their new release to help right now.


----------



## wdave

I've discovered that iSquint can decode without any audio sync problems. So until Toast can fix their bug, I'm using that (using Tivo Decoder to first translate the .Tivo file).


----------



## javabird

I've done a couple of tests using TivoDecodeManager (bypassing Toast's transfer tool), and both mpeg and mp4 files were also severely out-of-sync (when viewed in QT, MPEG Streamclip or iMovie).


----------



## wdave

I can't get TivoDecodeManager to work at all. It stalls when trying to begin transfer anything from my S3 (I've only tried HD material, if that matters).

But I'll reiterate: "Tivo Transfer -> Tivo Decoder -> iSquint" works great with no problems so far for me. This is my solution until TivoDecodeManager and/or Toast fix their bugs.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

wdave said:


> But I'll reiterate: "Tivo Transfer -> Tivo Decoder -> iSquint" works great with no problems so far for me. This is my solution until TivoDecodeManager and/or Toast fix their bugs.


Time for me to either kick the TiVo to the curb for a homebrew PC DVR, or kick the WinPC to the curb for a Mac. Or maybe both.

I'm actually really angry that TiVo introduced this defect and has been so slow to correct it.

A buddy of mine who was a TiVo developer a ways back told me that they've outsourced a lot of development to India. Not sure how much knowledge is left here in the states, or if the remote team is the cause of the delay, but ultimately I don't care, the market will vote with its collective checkbook.


----------



## wdave

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> I'm actually really angry that TiVo introduced this defect and has been so slow to correct it.


Well, now I'm not so sure it's a Tivo problem. Both Tivo Decoder and iSquint haven't changed or been updated with new releases in many months, long before the Tivo Fall Update. Since those apps continue to work fine, that tells me the problem with Toast and TivoDecodeManager doesn't lie with (or at least not completely with) Tivo.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

wdave said:


> Well, now I'm not so sure it's a Tivo problem. Both Tivo Decoder and iSquint haven't changed or been updated with new releases in many months, long before the Tivo Fall Update. Since those apps continue to work fine, that tells me the problem with Toast and TivoDecodeManager doesn't lie with (or at least not completely with) Tivo.


I hear you on that, totally. And I feel like I'm thread-crapping by talking about my PC woes on a Toast / Mac thread.

But still... my situation is that everything worked fine for me (download & then edit w/ VideoRedo on PC) until the TiVo fall update... since the updated, with about 10% of the .TiVo files I load w/ VideoRedo, it complains that there are too many audio sync errors in the file to continue. Many files are fine, only some have problems.

VideoReDo does its best to correct / work around the sync problems, and my understanding is that if they accepted a larger number of errors (instead of just saying "this file is crap"), the file could be loaded.

So my guess is that TiVo Decoder & iSquint are very forgiving & good at correcting / ignoring these errors, and they've been that way for a while.

Anyway just my 2 (5?) cents...


----------



## javabird

wdave said:


> I can't get TivoDecodeManager to work at all. It stalls when trying to begin transfer anything from my S3 (I've only tried HD material, if that matters).
> 
> But I'll reiterate: "Tivo Transfer -> Tivo Decoder -> iSquint" works great with no problems so far for me. This is my solution until TivoDecodeManager and/or Toast fix their bugs.


Are you using version 1.3 of Tivo Decoder?


----------



## wdave

javabird said:


> Are you using version 1.3 of Tivo Decoder?


Yes.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> A buddy of mine who was a TiVo developer a ways back told me that they've outsourced a lot of development to India. Not sure how much knowledge is left here in the states, or if the remote team is the cause of the delay, but ultimately I don't care, the market will vote with its collective checkbook.


There has been occasional mention of India here on TiVocommunty. I think it explains a lot.

I'm not familiar with Tom Rogers' background. But I get the impression that he's a gladhanding dealmaker who doesn't know s*** technically.

My experience is that managers who don't understand technical details inevitably think they're unimportant, trivial, easily solved. That explains the outsourcing to Apu & Co.


----------



## saberman

>Why does a company with 451 full time employees need 19 vice presidents? 

Someone has to make the coffee since the function has been reclassified as non-administrative.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Why does a company with 451 full time employees need 19 vice presidents?


At the risk of re-spinning a classic punchline.... 1 to do the work, and 18 to watch him (or her).


----------



## minckster

So TiVo is going to keep on hiring vice presidents until they find _that one_ who actually does work?


----------



## HaroldBuck

bobconlon said:


> So are most people able to still transfer the files to their computer?
> Mine won't even do that. It simply says it is waiting to transfer the files and stalls out there.


Hi, just joined. I'm working through this thread, so I don't know if this has been answered already, but this happens to me. I have to restart TiVo, then I can transfer a few more shows. Eventually it chokes again and I need to restart again. Very frustrating, but at least I can transfer stuff.

I'm experience the synch issues that other people are having, plus many of the other issues. Since the Toast 8.0.3 update, I've been able to burn DVDs again, but I've been having issues with the DVDs being garbled partway through (in addition to the synch issues). They told me not to do anything on the computer while burning (I usually burn overnight), to update my DVD burner firmware (there is no update AFAICT), and to install the QuickTime update. I burned a DVD for my kids after that update that seems to be working, although I still have the synch issue.

-Harold
Mac OS 10.5.1
2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo iMac
2 GB Ram
Toast 8.0.3
TiVo Series 2 DVR


----------



## Sparkylulu

I'm going to reply here because I am just frustrated.
I STILL have the sync problems. I guess I should be grateful for the encoder problem to have been fixed but still... 
What I loved about Toast and Tivo was the ability to record and then transfer to my ipod or burn the disc. This comes in especially handy when recording programs for my one year old to watch on long plane trips. But now it's just a useless piece of software.
When is someone going to address this problem and fix it?


----------



## HaroldBuck

From Roxio Tech Support on 12-5:



> We have also received feedback through beta testing that a limited number of TiVo users are still experiencing audio and video synchronization issues. We are continuing to work on a resolution for this problem and will provide more information as it becomes available.


----------



## SnakeEyes

Can files ran through TiVoDecode be played back properly in Quicktime with the right codecs? I have an HD recording of Leno, the video is fine but there is no audio. I wanted to edit the video in QT.


----------



## shulcslt

HaroldBuck said:


> From Roxio Tech Support on 12-5:


That's the same thing they've been saying almost since day one of this whole issue - word for word.


----------



## benvon

Adding another voice to the choir...

... A/V sync problems when exporting for iPod
... already contacted Roxio
... very frustrated
... significant backlog of shows waiting to be transcoded to the iPod
... bleh
... never buying Roxio again


----------



## Sluggo042

benvon said:


> Adding another voice to the choir...
> 
> ... never buying Roxio again


That presumes that the whole snafu is Roxio's fault. It looks to me like this is more likely caused by something Tivo did with the Fall 2007 Update. I'm not entirely absolving Roxio - they could be far more open about what's going on than they have been to date, a serious shortcoming. However, if Tivo made some change to their encoding without informing Roxio beforehand, then Roxio might well get blamed for something they had no hand in causing. And if they made no change, then Roxio's software shouldn't have stopped working. So I tend to believe that Tivo is the originator of this problem, even if we are forced by the situation to wait for Roxio to fix it.

Doug G.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

Sluggo042 said:


> That presumes that the whole snafu is Roxio's fault. It looks to me like this is more likely caused by something Tivo did with the Fall 2007 Update. I'm not entirely absolving Roxio - they could be far more open about what's going on than they have been to date, a serious shortcoming. However, if Tivo made some change to their encoding without informing Roxio beforehand, then Roxio might well get blamed for something they had no hand in causing. And if they made no change, then Roxio's software shouldn't have stopped working. So I tend to believe that Tivo is the originator of this problem, even if we are forced by the situation to wait for Roxio to fix it.
> 
> Doug G.


I completely agree, since I'm having similar problems without Roxio (in spite of this thread's title.)

For the love of all that is holy, can someone from Roxio (or TiVo) please point the finger? Like no one from those companies participates on this forum... 

WE DON'T CARE who is to blame, just fix the damn thing!!!


----------



## Sluggo042

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> I completely agree, since I'm having similar problems without Roxio (in spite of this thread's title.)
> 
> For the love of all that is holy, can someone from Roxio (or TiVo) please point the finger? Like no one from those companies participates on this forum...
> 
> WE DON'T CARE who is to blame, just fix the damn thing!!!


Amen, brother!

(The thread's title is my fault. It was appropriate when this whole problem started with the encoding-freeze problem caused by the mishandled metadata. It was only after Roxio fixed that problem that the current sync problem became apparent. I've thought about starting a thread with 'Audio Sync' in the title, but everyone suffering from the problem seems to end up here, so it seems to be working for the moment.)

Doug G.


----------



## benvon

Sluggo042 said:


> Amen, brother!
> 
> (The thread's title is my fault. It was appropriate when this whole problem started with the encoding-freeze problem caused by the mishandled metadata. It was only after Roxio fixed that problem that the current sync problem became apparent. I've thought about starting a thread with 'Audio Sync' in the title, but everyone suffering from the problem seems to end up here, so it seems to be working for the moment.)
> 
> Doug G.


You are right about it not necessarily being Roxio's fault. But taking a month to fix one problem only to introduce (or completely miss) another problem does not strike me as something that a quality software engineering house would do. What were they doing with that first month? It's now been more than two months and we've heard precious little from this "professional" software company.

I don't care whos fault it is. Roxio took my money in return for providing a particular functionality. So far, in the 4 months since I've given Roxio my money, I've had less than 2 months of real functionality!

That's what I'm upset about. That's Roxio's fault.


----------



## Sluggo042

benvon said:


> You are right about it not necessarily being Roxio's fault. But taking a month to fix one problem only to introduce (or completely miss) another problem does not strike me as something that a quality software engineering house would do. What were they doing with that first month? It's now been more than two months and we've heard precious little from this "professional" software company.
> 
> I don't care whos fault it is. Roxio took my money in return for providing a particular functionality. So far, in the 4 months since I've given Roxio my money, I've had less than 2 months of real functionality!
> 
> That's what I'm upset about. That's Roxio's fault.


I don't want to let Roxio entirely off the hook. But I also think they're in a tough position. They've got a partner (Tivo) who does stuff that breaks their software without warning. They're limited in how obnoxious they can be to that partner while still maintaining the relationship. Worse, the thing that Tivo broke, whatever it is that's causing the audio sync problem, appears NOT to be universal - there are people here reporting that they're not having the problem. This may explain why Roxio missed the bug when they released the first fix - it's not showing up on all machines. And if that's true, it suggests that testing the second fix is not trivial, as there will be a lot of cases to be tested to make sure they don't break something else, or again leave some subset of users unfixed. Given all of that, I don't think that a couple of months is entirely unjustified.

On the other hand, and where I do fault Roxio, is their policy of being so close-mouthed about what the hell is going on. Yeah, we have one official statement about "a few users" seeing a problem back when the first fix was released, but nothing since that I'm aware of. There's no official statement about a timeframe for a fix, or even that any such fix is forthcoming. This to a userbase that put up with Tivo stringing Mac users along for a couple of years, promising TivoToGo functionality long before they actually got around to providing it. It's no wonder most of us find this silence policy so frustrating - we've been trained by Tivo to be distrustful that we're going to get any support for these features at all!

I do think that Roxio's policy of not keeping paying users updated on the progress of the fix is extremely stupid, earning them black eyes they could have just as easily avoided with an update or two. In the absence of information, all we users can do is to keep bringing up the problem in open forums until such time as we actually learn publically what's going on.

Still, it could be worse - at least we expect Roxio to do something about the problem. Based on their history, no one seems to have any such expectation of Tivo. Roxio's getting thrashed over this issue in part because we have higher expectations from them.

Doug G.


----------



## Sparkylulu

Well, there has been precedent set, right? Wasn't there a guy named Paratox or Patatox who was a rep from Roxio and was updating us with the progress?
I don't blame Roxio per se. Nor can I blame Tivo. All I can say is the former offer an answer for Mac users to be able to use Tivo Desktop. In addition, since the PC version is free, they made it so you had to buy a third party app to be able to run the program. That would suck if they didn't give us so much extra power with the ability to burn and offload to ipod easily.
But, with Direct Show Dump and various other conversion programs I would be able to do the same thing with my PC. Except that my ipod is Mac and I am a total macuser now.
So, what is my option?
Money has exchanged hands. So, Roxio needs to keep up their end of the bargain or offer something in return. At the very least, they need to respond when a user opens a "ticket". (who still uses that anyway?)
I have opened tickets and received no response. That's just kooky.
I suggest we keep responding to this post to keep it up front and hope that the powers that be at Tivo and Roxio decide to do something about the mess and inconvenience they have caused.


----------



## Sluggo042

Sparkylulu said:


> Well, there has been precedent set, right? Wasn't there a guy named Paratox or Patatox who was a rep from Roxio and was updating us with the progress?


Patatrox, yes. Though he, and Roxio as a whole have gone eerily quiet over the last few weeks.



> At the very least, they need to respond when a user opens a "ticket". (who still uses that anyway?)
> 
> I have opened tickets and received no response. That's just kooky.


The 'ticket' system seems like a rational way to track and bring some accountability to customer complants. Tivo doesn't even offer that much, giving no written way I've been able to find of communicating bugs to them. So, I'm rather glad that Roxio offers that method of contact. Even though they seem to have decided at some point in the last few weeks to collectively ignore anyone asking about the audio sync bug. Kooky would be my kindest characterization of the silence.



> I suggest we keep responding to this post to keep it up front and hope that the powers that be at Tivo and Roxio decide to do something about the mess and inconvenience they have caused.


Exactly my strategy.

Doug G.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

It's about time someone posts this story over at Consumerist.com -- "TiVo's TiVoToGo feature works beautifully - except when it doesn't"

(To TiVo): *Oh, have I got your attention now?* (Anyone remember that scene w/ Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross?)


----------



## wdave

Sluggo042 said:


> I don't want to let Roxio entirely off the hook. But I also think they're in a tough position. They've got a partner (Tivo) who does stuff that breaks their software without warning.


Wait, I gotta stop you there. I feel like a broken record in this thread. As I previously pointed out:

There are tools that haven't changed in months (Tivo Decoder, VisualHub/iSquint) that can translate the Tivo files just fine. These apps worked before the Fall Update, and they continue to work after the Fall Update. If Tivo broke something substantial, then why do those apps still work fine? Maybe Roxio isn't following the spec in some way, and therefore got hit with some change in the Fall Update that was perfectly "legal" for Tivo to make.

Since there are other tools that can convert just fine (and they're even free!), then Roxio has no excuse.


----------



## javabird

I had trouble with audio sync using Tivo Decoder after the fall update, which I've posted in several forums, and others have posted similar problems. So I wouldn't say they "still work fine." I haven't used Visual Hub, though, as I won't pay for a program that won't let me try it first (it only allows a short clip, which isn't a sufficient test since the sync problems show up after 1 hr.).


----------



## wdave

javabird said:


> I haven't used Visual Hub, though, as I won't pay for a program that won't let me try it first (it only allows a short clip, which isn't a sufficient test since the sync problems show up after 1 hr.).


Use iSquint, the little sister to VisualHub. It's free and will do iPod/iPhone/AppleTV conversions. That's what I'm using in the interim.


----------



## Sluggo042

wdave said:


> Wait, I gotta stop you there. I feel like a broken record in this thread. As I previously pointed out:
> 
> . . .
> 
> Since there are other tools that can convert just fine (and they're even free!), then Roxio has no excuse.


I'm probably sounding like a broken record too, but part of that is by design - I'm trying to keep the thread up front in the hope that it adds some push to Roxio completing a fix. I'm also grasping at straws in case someone can come up with some temporary work around, so I try to restate things a lot to keep the thought ball rolling.

Question: Some people report they're not seeing the audio sync problem using Toast/Popcorn. Postulate for a moment that the problem is variable, and depends upon one's installation and configuration. Due to some magic mojo setting that has yet go be discovered, some people's setups will suffer from the bug, and some will not. If this were the case, then one would see, or not see, the audio sync problem independent of the tools used to perform conversions. In other words, perhaps you're not seeing the audio sync problem because you have a "blessed" configuration, not because you're using different tools. So, the question is, did you see the audio sync problem using the Toast tool, or have you only ever used the Tivo Decode/iSquirt toolset? Because there's a chance that its working for you because you lucked out having a setup that doesn't suffer from this problem.

From your post, it seems that you're doing Tivo conversions for use on an iPod, whereas my primary goal is to burn to DVD. From things others have said, I suspect one may get different results when encoding for these different end uses. Perhaps when going for the DVD encoding, which I presume has higher video quality than for an iPod, the problem gets worse. Also, the problem is reported to be worse on longer programs - are you only encoding half-hour sitcoms, or are you getting good results on two hour movies as well?

Finally, I've tried loading the tivodecode program, and haven't been able to make heads or tails of how to get that up and running on a Mac. The version with a GUI wrapper, TivoDecode Manager, doesn't work for me, it won't start encoding. I will admit that I've not spent a lot of time trying to get them to work yet, but I've not found them to be workable solutions yet. I'd gladly listen to any tips on how to get them to work, but so far, they're not a trival alternative for me.

Doug G.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

Chiming in here.... I see the problem only on 1 of my 2 TiVos (of course it's the bargain-basement Humax model).... and even then, it's only on about 10% of the videos. So I totally believe that it is only a subset of the users who ever see this problem. And even then, only a subset of the time.

*wdave *-- I'll actually turn around what you said a couple posts back. I'd never seen the problem until the fall update, I saw the problem immediately after the update, and my video programs (VideoReDo, Windows Media Player, etc. ) -- none of which changed -- all suddenly couldn't play some of the downloaded files.

One other thing -- VideoRedo has an error threshold that can be configured. It is very forgiving of audio sync errors & tries to repair them as best as possible. But when the number is excessive it just marks the file as "bad". So it could depend on how many errors are in the file, and how forgiving the program is.

Anyway, I suspect that Roxio would love to finger the guilty but they (for some reason) must tread lightly in this case.

We'll probably never be able to finger the culprit -- TiVo is not in the habit of creating release notes for their updates. It'll probably just be fixed -- hopefully -- at some point in a future update and that will be that.


----------



## Sluggo042

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> Chiming in here.... I see the problem only on 1 of my 2 TiVos (of course it's the bargain-basement Humax model)....


At the risk of asking something we may have covered before, is there a difference between how these two Tivos are connected to your computer? Is one hard-wired, and one connected wirelessly?

My single Tivo is connected wirelessly, and I see the audio sync problem on just about everything I encode, though the degree of the delay varies.


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

Sluggo042 said:


> At the risk of asking something we may have covered before, is there a difference between how these two Tivos are connected to your computer? Is one hard-wired, and one connected wirelessly?
> 
> My single Tivo is connected wirelessly, and I see the audio sync problem on just about everything I encode, though the degree of the delay varies.


They're actually both wired connections. My router is set up for WPA2 encryption and 2 years ago (when I got the 2nd TiVo, the Humax) only WEP was supported on TiVos... not good enough for me.... so they're both wired. I think now other encryption modes are supported w/ certain adapters but that ship has sailed for me.

My (very crude) theory is that is has to do with the processing power on the box. The Humax has a weaker CPU (hence the lower price), so I tried something: tuning the Humax to an empty channel (reducing the load since there is nothing to record in the 30-minute buffer), and making sure nothing was being played back during transfer (also reducing load on the CPU). So far no problems with files transfered under these conditions (about 20 files -- so I'd expect 1 or 2 of the files to be corrupted).

I'm the first to say that lack of observing the problem is not the same as knowing that this helps/fixes it, it's all empirical evidence. Correlation vs. causation.... And anyway, I'm not sure if it makes sense about reducing the CPU load & file errors. If I was writing the transcoder (or the transfer protocol), I would design it so that it wouldn't fail based on CPU load, it would just take longer (this is actually the kind of thing I do for a living.)


----------



## walterwatts

Using Roxio's included Tivo Transfer.app with Toast 8 (8.0.3), the transferred .tivo file plays fine (ie. no audio sync problem) when I play it with the Roxio Tivo file player.

It's encoding (to either DVD OR iPod) that gives me the audio sync headache (audio at least 3 to 4 seconds behind the video).

Walter


----------



## Sluggo042

walterwatts said:


> Using Roxio's included Tivo Transfer.app with Toast 8 (8.0.3), the transferred .tivo file plays fine (ie. no audio sync problem) when I play it with the Roxio Tivo file player.
> 
> It's encoding (to either DVD OR iPod) that gives me the audio sync headache (audio at least 3 to 4 seconds behind the video).
> 
> Walter


Hi Walter, welcome over to this side of the conversation - I'm kinda curious if they're going to boot my butt after they get back from Xmas for what I said over on the Roxio side of things in that last post. 

Yes, that seems to be what those who are suffering from the problem are observing. The files work fine as far as the Roxio Video Player is concerned, but gain some variable audio offset in the encoding process. 3-4 seconds is about the worst I've heard of so far - my files tend to run about a second or so out of whack. But it doesn't take a whole lot of drift to make the thing look like a damn Japanese monster movie.

Doug G.


----------



## Sluggo042

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> They're actually both wired connections. My (very crude) theory is that is has to do with the processing power on the box. . . So far no problems with files transfered under these conditions (about 20 files -- so I'd expect 1 or 2 of the files to be corrupted).


Hey TiVo Kid,

I've been running some experiments to see what I could come up with given your theory. I took a two hour program, made sure the TiVo was tuned to a satellite music channel (no video, so presumed low processing burden), then transferred it to my computer, and encoded it. Then I repeated the transfer while the TiVo was recording a program at Best quality (presumed high processing burden), encoded it, then compared it to the first trial. I basically got the same result on both of them, though I must admit that for once, I got pretty good copies of the program with minimal audio offset.

This doesn't mean your theory is necessarily invalid, as my hardware is a regulation Tivo box, and may have more computing power than your Humax. But i thought I'd throw the data point out there.

One other thing I've noticed - I've still got the original TivoTransfer program (v.1.0.1) around, and I think I accidentally used it for the transferring in the experiment I described. When I fed the transferred file into the newer 8.0.3 versio of Toast, I got little or no audio delay. I'm not entirely sure what's happening here, but there might be a possible temporary work around here that works better than the most recent TivoTransfer program - presuming one doesn't mind the garbled metadata in the older TivoTransfer window.

Doug G.


----------



## walterwatts

Hey Doug.

I got another response from Roxio support, but I haven't tried it yet. I thought I'd run it by you and see what you thought.
-----------------------------------------
A Roxio Agent has responded to your ticket!

Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support

You will need to enable Tivo Export mode to use the additional formats.

Make sure Toast and it's other apps are closed. In the terminal window, copy and paste

this:

defaults write com.roxio.Toast 'tivo export mode' -integer 1

Restart Toast, export a video using h.264 format with all of the same settings as the iPod

format except change the fps to 24.

Thanks for contacting Roxio Customer Care. Let us know if you need further assistance on

this issue by clicking the Update button.

Regards,

Roxio Technical Support
http://support.roxio.com 
-------------------------------------
While that might help the iPod encoding, how would it affect DVD burning? Am I missing something. I'll try it and see.

Also, I've only tried encoding with an Intel Mac mini 1.83GHz, 1GB RAM, Intel Core Duo.

I also have a 24 inch iMac (early 2007) Intel Core 2 Duo, 2.16GHz, 2GB RAM, nVidia GEForce 7600 GT/256MB. I'll probably install Toast on that too and try it, but was hoping to flog the mini with all the mundane things like I normally do ie. Tivo Desktop, etc.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Walter


----------



## Sluggo042

walterwatts said:


> I got another response from Roxio support, but I haven't tried it yet. I thought I'd run it by you and see what you thought.
> 
> <snip> -----------------------------------------
> 
> defaults write com.roxio.Toast 'tivo export mode' -integer 1
> 
> <snip> -----------------------------------------
> 
> I'll let you know how it goes.
> 
> Walter


1) Well, I think I've seen that setting before somewhere, and I think I remember trying it, but I can't remember the context. As I recall, it didn't achieve anything.

2) Roxio Support is real good at tossing out random suggested fixes. In my experience so far, none of them have actually related to the problem at hand. When I called them on this (politely), they stopped talking to me. In communication to someone higher up, they admitted that the Support folk work from a script that has no special information about our specific problem. So, (a) I'm not suprised they've got all kinds of suggestions for you, and (b) I'm not expecting said suggestions to do anything for you. Still, your mileage may vary, and I doubt it will hurt anything. I'll be curious as to your results.

3) As you note, it looks like that suggestion is shaped towards iPod transfer, and not DVD burning.

Doug G.


----------



## fredric100

Hey - I've been checking this thread for months hoping Roxio or TiVo would address these issues by now. Their inaction is inexcusable. I'm super peeved.

I've probably trashed over 30 blank DVDs trying to burn a TTG transfer with good audio since the Fall update, testing various workarounds and fixes.

I feel like *MAILING* all my useless DVDs, one by one, to the CEOs of Roxio and TiVo, as an expression of disgust. Would anyone else be up for a mail-in campaign like this to try to draw some well-deserved attention to this problem?


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## javabird

fredric100 said:


> I've probably trashed over 30 blank DVDs trying to burn a TTG transfer with good audio since the Fall update, testing various workarounds and fixes.


You can test your movie before you burn a DVD. After you set up your DVD in Toast, then choose "Save as a disc image." When it's done creating the image, then use Toast to mount the .dmg and play it in your Mac's DVD Player.
This is a good way to prevent burning a lot of coasters.


----------



## fredric100

javabird said:


> You can test your movie before you burn a DVD. After you set up your DVD in Toast, then choose "Save as a disc image." When it's done creating the image, then use Toast to mount the .dmg and play it in your Mac's DVD Player.
> This is a good way to prevent burning a lot of coasters.


Good tip, thanks. Sad that it's necessary. 

Once the image is built and tested good (like that's ever gonna happen), is there easy way to burn the image to disk? Does Toast have a feature for importing disk images or something?


----------



## derekcbart

fredric100 said:


> Good tip, thanks. Sad that it's necessary.
> 
> Once the image is built and tested good (like that's ever gonna happen), is there easy way to burn the image to disk? Does Toast have a feature for importing disk images or something?


Double click the Toast Image and then it will open up Toast. You can then tell Toast to burn it to DVD. I do this all the time with non-TiVo burns that I do and know that I will have to make additional copies in the future of.


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## Sparkylulu

Yawwwnnnn....stretch.....oh, hello, 2008. Let's see if this Tivo/Roxio thang has been cleared up....nope?
Okay. Well, here's to another waste of my money!
Cheers!


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## fredric100

It's time to get this fixed. This is ridiculous.

I've posted a letter to Tom Rogers, CEO of TiVo, which you can download here.

Mail it to him at the address on the letter.

I've worked in the high-tech industry for 20 years. Believe me, if he gets a bunch of these letters, this will get fixed. I'll post the number of letters downloaded in this forum.

- Fred


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

fredric100 said:


> It's time to get this fixed. This is ridiculous.
> 
> I've posted a letter to Tom Rogers, CEO of TiVo, which you can download here.
> 
> Mail it to him at the address on the letter.
> 
> I've worked in the high-tech industry for 20 years. Believe me, if he gets a bunch of these letters, this will get fixed. I'll post the number of letters downloaded in this forum.
> 
> - Fred


Hi Fred,

Your letter says that audio problems have made TTG for the Mac unusable.... well it's definitely true for Windows too.

I'm not a Windows fanboy but I suspect the majority of TTG customers are Windows users... maybe if you leave out the Mac reference (or also mention Windows) it'll get more attention within the company.

Just my 2 cents.


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## fredric100

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> Hi Fred,
> 
> Your letter says that audio problems have made TTG for the Mac unusable.... well it's definitely true for Windows too.
> 
> I'm not a Windows fanboy but I suspect the majority of TTG customers are Windows users... maybe if you leave out the Mac reference (or also mention Windows) it'll get more attention within the company.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


Done. Excellent suggestion, thank you.

12 downloads of the letter so far. A good start - thanks to everyone who's helping.


----------



## benvon

Letter downloaded, printed and mailed.

Thanks for putting that together.


----------



## fredric100

benvon said:


> Letter downloaded, printed and mailed.
> 
> Thanks for putting that together.


My pleasure. Thank you very much for mailing it.

31 downloads so far. I'm hoping we can hit at least 100. If no results by then, perhaps I can get some press attention for our mail-in campaign for customer support from TiVo.

The letter is here.


----------



## culpeppa

Success!

I've been reading this thread and encountering all the same problems with TT and Toast. My setup:

iMac running OSX 10.5 Leopard
TiVos Series2 and a Series3 connected using TiVo wireless adapters

The new TiVoDecodeManager version 2.1 (January 08, 2007) does it all. It successfully transfered video, decoded to .mp4, and placed in iTunes. The sync to my iPhone was flawless.

Give it a try. Forget about "TiVo Transfer" or "Toast Titanium". Not needed for Mac users.


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## fredric100

culpeppa said:


> Success!
> 
> Give it a try.


Hi all. Unfortunately TiVo Decode Manager 2.1 yielded the same old bloody audio problems as TTG in my case.

Workflow:
1. Xfer from Series 3 to Mac Mini using TiVo Decode Manager, MPEG2 format
2. Save the MPEG2 file as a Disk Image using Toast
3. Mount the disk image, play back using OSX DVD Player

Configuration:
1. OSX 10.4.11
2. TiVo Series 3
3. TiVo Decode Manager 2.1 writing MPEG2
4. Toast Titanium 8.0.3

Result = skipping audio

I also tried the MPEG4/Import to iTunes option on TiVo Decode Manager. In that configuration, TiVo Decode Manager simply failed to create an object file on the Mac side.


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## culpeppa

culpeppa said:


> "I also tried the MPEG4/Import to iTunes option on TiVo Decode Manager. In that configuration, TiVo Decode Manager simply failed to create an object file on the Mac side."


Hmmm... that's the option I used that worked. Ah well.


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## fredric100

culpeppa said:


> Hmmm... that's the option I used that worked. Ah well.


So it looks like this is still broken for many Mac and Windows users, and for many people there are no good workarounds.

In 1 week we've had 46 letters to the TiVo CEO complaining about this bug downloaded by people reading this thread. That's excellent. If we can hit around 100 downloads, I'm going to try to get some external press/blog coverage of this issue to increase the pressure. It's disgraceful that TiVo lets this situation continue.

The letter is here. Every letter sent by a new person helps.


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## rufusryker

I have a Mac Powerbook G4 running 10.4.11 and a TiVO Series 3. TTG is working for me so far, but I only use it for transferring video to my iPhone. I was going to buy Roxio software, but after reading this board I had second thoughts.

I'm using the widget NowPlaying 2.5.1 to transfer programs from my TiVO wirelessly to my mac. Then I use MPEG Streamclip 1.9 to convert the file to Mp4 format in the proper dimensions. I then drop the file in iTunes and sync it with my iPhone. So far, so good. The image quality looks great. I did have to buy the MPEG-2 playback component from Apple ($20) to make this work, but everything else is free.

However, I have not used these programs to burn a DVD yet. Someone should try using NowPlaying to pull the file from TiVO and decode it, before sending it to Toast to burn a DVD.


----------



## Sparkylulu

I appreciate others saying that they have figured out a workaround, but this is ridiculous. 
I shouldn't have to get a workaround. I have Toast. I have TTG. It used to work. It should work now. 
Where is Paratox or patatox or whatever his name was?????


----------



## fredric100

*Thanks very much Rufusryker.* At your suggestion I tried a transfer using the NowPlaying widget, followed by a DVD burn using Toast. DVD audio was good, whereas every other workaround has failed for me. I'll do more testing over next few days to confirm.

Configuration:
- OSX 10.4.11
- TiVo HD
- Toast 8.0.3
- TiVo NowPlaying widget 2.5.1 / Download here (free).
- QuickTime MPEG2 Component / Download here ($20).
- MPEG Streamclip 1.9 / Download here (free).

Workflow to Burn DVD:
1. Transfer show from TiVo using NowPlaying widget 2.5.1 (creates MPEG2 file)
2. Burn the MPEG2 file to DVD using Toast 8.0.3

Workflow to Transfer to iPod (per Rufusryker, above):
1. Transfer show from TiVo using NowPlaying 2.5.1 (creates MPEG2 file)
2. Convert MPEG2 file to MP4 and resize using MPEG Streamclip 1.9
3. Drop MP4 file into iTunes, synch to iPhone, etc.


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## wdave

The key to whether that works is in the use of tivodecode, which the Tivo NowPlaying widget uses to transcode the Tivo file into an mpg. So, instead of using Streamclilp (and buying the MPEG2 Component), it's easier to use the free iSquint for the conversion into iPod or Apple TV format (assuming that's your final destination). So for me, this has worked well, and should yield the same success as the above:

Configuration:
- OSX 10.4.11
- Tivo Series 3
- Tivo NowPlay widget 2.5.1 / Download here (free).
- iSquint 1.5 / Download here (free).

Workflow to Transfer to iPod or iPhone:
1. Transfer show from Tivo using NowPlaying 2.5.1 (creates MPEG2 file)
2. Convert MPEG2 file to MP4 using iSquint 1.5

Note: In iSquint, use the "Optimize for TV" choice to convert for the higher resolution iPhone. Use Standard quality and H.264 encoding.


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## fredric100

Although it worked for me with one show, the DVD burn using NowPlaying widget -> Toast has failed with different content. Result = same old skipping audio. So, still no robust workaround for burning DVDs, far as I can determine.


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## rufusryker

Fredric100,

Have you tried playing the same file (that you burned with toast) using Streamclip? Does the audio skip in the same spots when viewing that file? If the audio sounds fine, maybe you should then try converting the audio part of the MPEG-2 file. I notice that under the FILE menu in Streamclip is a selection "Convert MPEG with MP2 audio..." Try converting the old MPEG-2 file, and then burn the new file using Toast. I have no idea whether this will work, but it might be worth a shot.


----------



## fredric100

rufusryker said:


> Fredric100,
> 
> Have you tried playing the same file (that you burned with toast) using Streamclip? Does the audio skip in the same spots when viewing that file?


 Funny you should mention that, I had same idea this morning. The audio DID play properly in StreamClip (with QT MPEG2 component). So I then exported the MPEG2 file from StreamClip to "MPEG with MP2 audio" (a transcode which ran pretty quickly, whereas other transcodes, e.g. to AVI or whatever, took too much time to be useful, even if they had worked).

I'm encoding the exported file as a DVD right now, I'll let you know if it works.


----------



## fredric100

fredric100 said:


> I then exported the MPEG2 file from StreamClip to "MPEG with MP2 audio" ... I'm encoding the exported file as a DVD right now, I'll let you know if it works.


Didn't work (audio still skips).


----------



## rufusryker

That's too bad. Still, I think we are closer to a solution.

I would go to "Show Stream Info" under the File menu. My audio for a short HD file I decoded is shown as "Audio Tracks: 128 AC3 3/2, 48 kHz, 384 kbps". It shows the video as "Video Tracks: 224 MPEG-2, 1280 &#215; 720, 16:9, 59.94 fps, 80.00 Mbps, progressive." If you look at the Preferences in Streamclip, there are a few interesting options that might do the trick. One check box is for "fix streams with data breaks." If it "fixes" the audio tracks, that sounds like a good option. (See Next Post for info from manual.)

I don't actually own Toast 8, so I can't test this myself. I plan to get a copy soon, along with a new computer with an Intel Duo processor. The G4 is a real dog when it comes to encoding.


----------



## rufusryker

I guess I also should have looked at the Streamclip manual! It's under the Help menu. (Note that MPEGs decoded from TiVO are NOT automatically scaled to any standard DVD frame size.) I did a simple search for "toast" and came up with the following:

Convert to MPEG...
converts the stream into a muxed MPEG (program stream) file; *if the frame size is suitable*, you can import this file in Toast 6, 7, 8 or Sizzle and burn it directly, with no encoding time and no loss of quality. Audio is left in its original format (MPEG, AC3 or PCM).
*Suitable frame sizes for DVD are 720x480, 720x576, 704x480, 704x576, 352x480, 352x576. If the frame size is not suitable, please try the "Convert to Headed MPEG" command instead.* The "headed" conversion is not required for Sizzle.
If Toast stops with an error before burning the file, please enable the option "Fix streams with data breaks" in preferences and try again.

*Convert to Headed MPEG...
same as "Convert to MPEG" but adds a special header to the MPEG file that lets you import unsupported frame sizes into Toast 6, 7, 8 and skip recompression.* However, DVDs made from "headed" MPEG files are not guaranteed to work with all players. Please DO NOT TRY to open "headed" MPEG files in QuickTime Player (it will crash). Also never try to burn a DVD from MPEG-1 or high-definition MPEG-2 with Toast 6 (it will hang).
The headed conversion shall not be used for Sizzle.

Demux to M2V and AC3...
demuxes the stream and creates an M2V video file and an AC3 audio file; if the frame size is suitable, you can import these two files in DVD Studio Pro or Toast 6, 7, 8, and burn them directly with no encoding time and no loss of quality. For muxed files that have AC3 audio, this command runs faster than Demux to M2V and AIFF, because no audio conversion is performed; and again, the resulting files take less space in the DVD.

Demux to Headed M2V and AC3...
same as "Demux to M2V and AC3" but with the "headed" M2V file that lets you import unsupported frame sizes in DVD Studio Pro and Toast 6, 7, 8. You can't use this command if the audio track is not in AC3 format.

----------------

Ok, my new theory is that the audio skipping and syncing issues occur when Toast attempts to scale and compress the standard MPEG-2 file to a standard DVD format (or other format). This might explain why the file plays fine on several players, but not after a Toast burn. I'd use Streamclip and select "Convert to Headed MPEG," plus enable the option "Fix streams with data breaks" under preferences. If that doesn't work, I'd try "Demux to Headed M2V and AC3," and then import these files into Toast before burning.


----------



## farvoyager

I have been following this thread because I, too, have been having audio sync problems with Tivo / Toast, etc. After lots of experiments, I have a hypothesis: Tivo files mis-report their frame rate when downloaded (or the framerate information is accidentally garbled).

When Tivo files are translated into mpegs, they report their frame rate as 23.976, but these are NTSC files and their frame rate SHOULD be 29.97.

I have checked their reported frame rate by using Mpeg Streamclip. I have gotten the TiVo files as mpegs onto my desktop both by the "Tivo Decoder Manager" and the "Tivo Decode" script (having used my web browser to get the file itself). In both cases, the resulting mpg does not play nicely with many mpg players and Mpeg Streamclip lists their frame rate as 23.976.

If I am right about this, it would explain why Toast is producing audio sync problems. Toast reads the tivo file and assumes it has to re-encode a 23.976 frame rate up to 29.97, but since the file is ACTUALLY in 29.97, this produces video that falls out of sync with the audio. Indeed, my copy of Toast produces sync problems even with the mpegs that I got by means of "Tivo Decoder Manager" and the "TiVo Decode Script." Since both of those mpeg files also mistakenly report their framerate as 23.976, Toast is bound to go haywire.

At the same time, I think this explains why users are having success with "Visual Hub" and "iSquint." Both of those programs seem to ignore the 23.976 framerate header information and simply ASSUME that they are receiving a standard NTSC framerate of 29.97 / 30 fps. So, when you use those programs, it re-encodes the file AND adds the proper framerate of 29.97 / 30 fps. Not surprisingly, the resulting video plays as it should.

I now have to try the following experiment and I'll report the results:
1. Get the tivo file on my computer as an mpg (either Tivo Decoder Manager or Tivo decode -- doesn't matter)
2. Use Visual Hub to make this mpeg into a .vob file (i.e. native DVD format) which will also acquire the proper frame rate tag of 29.97, thanks to Visual Hub's assumption about the framerate.
3. Import the .vob file into Toast and burn it / save as a disk image.
4. Watch the video and see if it syncs!

If I'm right in my hypothesis, the above process should work. I'll report the results later.

BJ


----------



## fredric100

farvoyager said:


> If I'm right in my hypothesis, the above process should work. I'll report the results later.
> 
> BJ


I just tested BJ's method using the free trial version of Visual Hub (only encodes 2 minutes), with content which had previously resulted in bad audio when burned to DVD via every other method discussed here.

BJ's method worked for me, at least this once. I'll continue testing with other files.

More data to substantiate BJ's hypothesis that Tivo files mis-report their framerate when downloaded (or the framerate information is accidentally garbled), and that this matters to some players/encoders and not to others: the framerates of my content, which is HD, for which the correct framerate is 59.94, are reported as:

59.94 by StreamClip (where audio plays correctly)
59.94 by Toast Video player (where audio plays correctly)
59.96 by QuickTime player (where no audio plays at all)

Let's see if others can reproduce this success. Visual Hub is available here.


----------



## AZ_Tivo

Pls ignore.


----------



## fredric100

rufusryker said:


> I'd use Streamclip and select "Convert to Headed MPEG," plus enable the option "Fix streams with data breaks" under preferences. If that doesn't work, I'd try "Demux to Headed M2V and AC3," and then import these files into Toast before burning.


Hey - these were all good ideas. Results were either that Toast would ultimately hang during the process of encoding the DVD, or that I'd get a DVD with continuous (as opposed to skipping) audio, but with the audio out of synch (ahead of) the video. So as I mentioned above, I'm now testing BJ's "cause = bad framerate header, workaround = use Visual Hub to burn DVDs" approach.


----------



## farvoyager

fredric100 said:


> 59.94 by StreamClip (where audio plays correctly)
> 59.94 by Toast Video player (where audio plays correctly)
> 59.96 by QuickTime player (where no audio plays at all)


Interesting! Are you using the MPEG-2 quicktime component (the one that costs 20 dollars from Apple)? I've read that it often won't play sound at all, even when you buy the component. (I, too, have that problem, even though I bought the component!) Somewhere, buried on their site, Apple says that the component is only to *display* the mpeg-2 on quicktime, not to give audio. Thanks, Apple!

How does your HD material play with VideoLan player? VLC is free and plays just about everything. Those results would be interesting, too.

Are you having audio sync with burning HD Tivo that your bring in solely through Toast?

P.S. I'm at work right now and won't get to test my theory more until late tonight. Results tomorrow! Grrr!

Happy testing!

BJ


----------



## rufusryker

The Apple MPEG-2 component is just a video codec. QuickTime does not play AC3 (which TiVO uses) or PCM audio, only MP2.

MpegStreamclip has a function "Convert to MPEG with MP2 Audio" that converts just the audio tracks so that the resultant files play in QuickTime (and can also be burned to DVD.) I've tried this out, and it works very well.


----------



## fredric100

farvoyager said:


> Interesting! 1. Are you using the MPEG-2 quicktime component (the one that costs 20 dollars from Apple)? I've read that it often won't play sound at all, even when you buy the component.
> 
> 2. How does your HD material play with VideoLan player?
> 
> 3. Are you having audio sync with burning HD Tivo that your bring in solely through Toast?
> 
> BJ


1. Yup, I shelled out the $20 for MPEG-2 Quicktime component.

2. Here's how the HD material plays in different players:
VideoLan player: Audio plays correctly. Player does not report framerate of the stream.
Toast Video player: Audio plays correctly in the player. However, does not burn to DVD correctly (that's why people are pissed). Player reports correct framerate of the stream.
StreamClip player: Audio plays correctly. Player reports correct framerate of the stream.
Quicktime player: No audio. Per rufusryker (above), after conversion to "MPEG with MP2 Audio" using StreamClip, then the audio plays correctly. Player reports incorrect framerate of the stream.
Miro player: No audio. After conversion to "MPEG with MP2 Audio" using StreamClip, then the audio plays correctly. Player does not report framerate of the stream.
RealPlayer: No audio. After conversion to "MPEG with MP2 Audio" using StreamClip, then the audio plays correctly. Player does not report framerate of the stream.
Windows Media player: "File format is invalid."

3. Yes, I get "skips" or breaks in the audio when I burn my TiVo HD content that I import (and process) exclusively in Toast to DVD .

I just had another successful burn (of 2 minutes worth of content) using Visual Hub Free Trial Version on a second problematic file. I'm hoping your test passes also, in which case I'll become a Visual Hub customer .


----------



## rufusryker

BJ, I think you are definitely on to something and visual hub looks like a great work-around. But HD output from TiVO appears to have the correct frame rate, yet it still causes errors in Toast according to fredric. And a large difference in non-HD frame rates would quickly put the sync off by much more than a few seconds.

Out of curiousity I googled "23.976" and "mpeg". A number of interesting results popped up. Clearly the frame rate 23.976 has an origin beyond Toast and TiVO. There's some information about needing a "3:2 pulldown". The relationship between 23.976 and 29.97 has something to do with progressive video and interlaced video.

Take a look at this link:

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/mpegforcons/

"If your video is at 23.976fps, you should check to make sure that 'Frame rate' is set to '23.976 fps (internally 29.97 fps)' and that 'Encode mode' is set to '3:2 pulldown when playback'. This is important. The 3:2 pulldown flag is what makes your 23.976fps progressive video play back as 29.97 interlaced, telecining on the fly..."

This link might have the answer:

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic342116.html

"Setting a "3:2 pulldown" tells playback devices, such as DVD players, how to output 23.976 fps progressive MPEG-2 material to displays that expect a 29.97 fps interlaced signal. That's its purpose. It's also part of the DVD specification for NTSC Film (23.976 fps) material.
If you feed a 23.976 fps MPEG-2 file without 3:2 pulldown to Toast, then Toast will re-encode it to make it 29.97 fps. But if it has the pulldown, then Toast accepts it as compliant."

I've read that this program can "flag" a 3:2 pulldown on an MPEG file:
http://www.ffmpegx.com/


----------



## rufusryker

I think the following thread has a lot of good information regarding using ffmpegX to flag a 3:2 pulldown and then burn with Toast.

http://forum.videohelp.com/topic324222-30.html

"My general workflow is to take the .avi file, convert it to a muxed MPEG2 .mpg using ffmpegX, check the file for a/v synchronization problems, drop them in Toast, create a disc image, then burn the image...

Many .avi files you will come across will be 16:9 encoded at 23.97 fps, or the FILM framerate. I've found in the past (I haven't verified this for Toast 8.0.3) that Toast will want to re-encode things at the FILM framerate, and this is bad (both for time and for quality). If the .avi file you are converting is 23.97 fps, you want to set the 3:2 pulldown flag in the video stream -- this is a form of "faking" standard the NTSC framerate (29.97) with FILM video. It doesn't change the encoding (the video is still FILM), but it instructs the player to repeat a frame every once in a while to bring it to 29.97 fps. Toast doesn't care, as long as it looks like NTSC or PAL video, it will burn without re-encoding. You should be able to determine the framerate of your .avi file by dropping the file onto ffmpegX and hitting the info button. If it says 23.976 fps, it's FILM, and you need the 3:2 pulldown flag. If it says 29.97 or 25 then it is NTSC or PAL respectively, and you don't need the 3:2 pulldown flag."


----------



## farvoyager

What is "the 3:2 pulldown flag"? Where do I access that option on Toast?

P.S. I'm running my test now. Toast is SLOWLY encoding my .vob file. I'll report the results!

BJ


----------



## rufusryker

farvoyager said:


> What is "the 3:2 pulldown flag"? Where do I access that option on Toast?
> 
> P.S. I'm running my test now. Toast is SLOWLY encoding my .vob file. I'll report the results!
> 
> BJ


I hope it works. It would make things easier for a lot of people to just use VisualHub until Toast addresses the issue.

However, if it does work, it probably means that VisualHub is managing to convert NTSC FILM rate (23.976 fps) to be played at the normal NTSC rate (29.97 fps). I don't think that the 23.976 fps rate that you identified earlier was a random error from Roxio or TiVO or the decoder, or that it was incorrectly labeled. The file was encoded at 23.976 fps. A "3:2 pulldown" repeats frames so the file can play at 29.97 fps.

"PAL has only one value, though NTSC has two values (NTSC and NTSC FILM). Almost all NTSC DVDs are encoded at NTSC FILM rate, while TV or camera material is encoded at NTSC rate. mpeg-2 can also have 3:2 pulldown activated so video encoded at NTSC FILM will be played back at NTSC rate."

Toast cannot execute a 3:2 pulldown. A program called ffmpegX can do it prior to a Toast burn. Maybe VisualHub can as well. I've read about other instances on the web (not TiVO related) where people tried to burn DVDs using Toast with files playing at the NTSC FILM rate, and they have run into problems with syncing and audio skipping.


----------



## fredric100

Good news: VisualHub just burned 2 good DVDs for me of 2 half-hour HD shows I had transfered using the NowPlaying widget.

The audio was good. Continuous and synchronized to the video.

No other method had succeeded with these files.

Using the default configuration of VisualHub, the final _video_ on the DVD was not quite as good as I used to get with Toast. With motion that should be smooth and continuous, for example a camera pan, or an object moving at a constant rate, the motion has small but observable accelerations and decelerations. But this issue is relatively minor. Besides, I may be able to address it by tweaking VisualHub DVD encoding, or perhaps doing an "MPEG to MPEG" conversion in VisualHub, then encoding the DVD in Toast.

Also, VisualHub doesn't let you create DVD menus like Toast. Again, not a big deal in the overall context of this problem.

The speed of VisualHub for this application was same order of magnitude as Toast.

So I'm ready to say that, for burning DVDs under OSX, NowPlaying widget 2.5.1 paired with VisualHub 1.30 is a good workable substitute for TiVo To Go paired with Toast.


----------



## farvoyager

Yes, my experiments with Visual Hub worked for regular TiVo TV recorded at 23.976fps. I tried three experiments, all of which began with the TiVo Mpeg File on my desktop:

1. I used Visual Hub to convert the original TiVo 23.976f fps Mpeg to a 29.97fps .vob file (this is the native DVD format so that Toast should not have to re-encode). It also produced a file that was larger (due to the added frames, I'm think).

2. I used Visual Hub to convert the original TiVo 23.976f fps Mpeg to 29.97fps Mpeg. I set it to Mpeg2 on Visual Hub at "Standard Compression" which produced a file that was smaller than the original Mpeg. (To set it to Mpeg-2, you may need the Apple 20$ Mpeg-2 Component.)

3. I used Visual Hub to convert the original TiVo 23.976f fps Mpeg to 29.97fps Mpeg AND I used Mpeg Streamclip (with the Apple 20$ playback component) to trim the video. This file, too, was noticeably smaller.

I put all three files onto a single Toast disc and save it as an image so that I could check the results without making a coaster. The results:

1. Video is as good as the original. Sound in sync.

2. Video is grainier, but at least the sound is in sync. I think if you use Visual Hub to do mpeg to mpeg conversion, you'll have to tinker around with what level of compression it produces so that you can get a video file that looks as good as you want it to.

3. Similar to above, but the video does not start on a dime and I kind of thought that the audio looked like . Although I trimmed it at a key frame to start right before my show began, it starts playing about a second after that. I checked the end of the half hour video I was using and, while it was pretty much in sync, it looked like it was about a split second off. Not sure though.

Per ffmpegx, it would make sense that it could do it, since it is supposed to be the jackknife of video conversion. Although it is free, I have to admit that I find its options overwhelming and confusing, so I use Visual Hub for 20 bucks. I suspect that Visual Hub is really just a pretty wrapper for ffmpegx, but I'll take it since it works for me! ;-)

Although our experiments are limited (and thanks to all for reporting -- it has been extremely helpful), it sounds like we have chased down the problem for regular TV recordings: TiVo records at a film rate of 23.976fps but Toast mis-handles that frame rate. (Honestly, my stand alone players mis-handle it, too, except for VLC; every other video player chokes on the TiVo mpeg file!) For whatever reason, Toast does not mis-handle files that have been upscaled to a standard NTSC 29.97fps. Since 20$ Visual Hub makes the conversion well enough (although it takes a long time), it seems like a temporary work around.

Now, a final question: is Visual Hub the solution for HD TiVo users? (I don't have HD, so I can't test it.) Their files seem to have the standard frame rates, so why is Toast screwing up the audio? And, if Visual Hub works, what is it adding to make Toast play nice with the file?

Happy burning to all and to all a good disc!

BJ


----------



## cnsayre

farvoyager said:


> Per ffmpegx, it would make sense that it could do it, since it is supposed to be the jackknife of video conversion. Although it is free, I have to admit that I find its options overwhelming and confusing, so I use Visual Hub for 20 bucks. I suspect that Visual Hub is really just a pretty wrapper for ffmpegx, but I'll take it since it works for me! ;-)
> 
> BJ


For those interested, I posted a "how to" convert files with ffmepgx a while back:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370925

cnsayre


----------



## fredric100

cnsayre said:


> For those interested, I posted a "how to" convert files with ffmepgx a while back:
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370925
> 
> cnsayre


Thank you.

Inspection of the VisualHub log files reveals that, like ffmpegx, VisualHub calls ffmpeg.


----------



## cnsayre

For what it's worth, I've also plunked down the $20 a while back for visual hub and get similar results without all the fiddling. ;-)


----------



## rufusryker

This is very good news and I'm looking forward to trying this method once I get a new computer system soon.

What Mac systems are people using? I'm sure any of the latest Intel processors will be a huge leap over my G4.


----------



## javabird

Has anyone tried this since the latest Quicktime upgrade? I burned a few Tivo transfers in Toast over the last couple of days and the sync is fine on the tests I've done so far.


----------



## walterwatts

fredric100 said:


> It's time to get this fixed. This is ridiculous.
> 
> I've posted a letter to Tom Rogers, CEO of TiVo, which you can download here.
> 
> Mail it to him at the address on the letter.
> 
> I've worked in the high-tech industry for 20 years. Believe me, if he gets a bunch of these letters, this will get fixed. I'll post the number of letters downloaded in this forum.
> 
> - Fred


Nice job there Fred.

I'm mailing it right now as a matter of fact.

Thanks,
Walter


----------



## fredric100

walterwatts said:


> Nice job there Fred.
> 
> I'm mailing it right now as a matter of fact.
> 
> Thanks,
> Walter


My pleasure. The fact that we've found workarounds for Mac users in no way diminishes TiVo's responsibility to fix this.

To date, TiVo customers have downloaded 71 letters to the TiVo CEO urging him to correct this bug. Hopefully, many of those have been mailed, and many more will follow. The letter is here.


----------



## fredric100

javabird said:


> Has anyone tried this since the latest Quicktime upgrade? I burned a few Tivo transfers in Toast over the last couple of days and the sync is fine on the tests I've done so far.


I just upgraded to QT 7.4 and it didn't make any difference: TTG plus Toast still gives bad audio on DVDs. Thanks for the suggestion though.


----------



## farvoyager

Me, too. I tried updating Quicktime and I still get audio sync issues. Something interesting did turn up, however: I tried to burn 4 episodes of a 25 minute show. 2 were in sync and 2 were not. The two that were in sync had chapter breaks but the two that were not had no chapter breaks. Had to do a lot of fast forwarding!

Using visual hub has solved the sync problem for me (combined with streamclip to fix time code and data breaks) but I have encountered a new problem: toast freezes on me whenever I try to make it burn more than 2 sizable mpeg or vob files (roughly 1.3 gigabytes each), even when I do "save as disc image." No matter what Automatic or Custom setting I use, Toast insists on reencoding them and then it freezes during the second or third mpeg file. What a pain!

BJ


----------



## javabird

Interesting. I've done 5-6 dvds this past week that were all in sync. I will experiment more to see if I can figure out what has changed. 

Those of you using VisualHub, have you tried any shows over 1-hr long? I noticed in the past that sync issues only became obvious after 1 to 1-1/2 hr into the program.


----------



## shulcslt

Earlier today, I decided to "update" my ticket, with Roxio, asking what was going on with this issue.

They replied, with the "standard party line":
"Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support

This issue is happening to a very small group of customers, I am sorry that you are one of those customers. I can assure you that Roxio is aware of this and looking into the issue for a resolution."

Since I'm becoming increasingly annoyed, I decided to respond to them with the following:


""A very small group of customers" who were promised a fix months ago. "A very small group of customers" which numbers, at least, in the hundreds judging by the number of posts and views on various boards that I've seen and the normal ratio of those who have a problem and that much smaller group that report it. "A very small group of customers" who are, by their prominent complaints about a feature of Roxio's Toast which is still today being prominently featured in your promotion of the product, negatively affecting Roxio's sales. "A very small group of customers" who are not being given ANY useful information other than "Roxio is aware of this and looking into the issue for a resolution.""

I know it won't do any good, but what the hell, it felt good.


----------



## walterwatts

This is an excerpt from John Dvorak's latest op-ed, which I found to be appropriate to our thread here:
----------------------------------------
The Terms-of-Service Bugaboo

Agree, or No Soup for You

I have voiced my complaints about these agreements (ie. EULA's, ToS's) before, and the courts seem unable to do anything about it. According to the basic premise, if a company sells you a product that it claims will do x, y, and z, but the license agreement says it really doesn't have to do anything it promised, then indeed it does not have to do anything it promised once you break the shrink-wrap or click "Yes, I agree" on a screen. This is because what you now agree to is something different from what you were initially promised. And you also agree not to complain about it.

One of my favs is the proviso that you cannot complain about the product or review it in a publication unless given explicit permission by the company. A couple of big software companies tried that stunt a few years ago, but it backfired with the public when some writers made a big stink saying, "Hey look, they are legally keeping us from reviewing the product. It must totally suck!! DO NOT BUY IT!" The phenomenon was short-lived but not forgotten.

Generally speaking, a software license and various terms-of-service and terms-of-use agreements say the following:

#1- Whatever you think we said, or whatever we said, about the product may have nothing to do with reality, and you agree not to expect that it does.


#2- No matter what happens, including damage to your equipment or even someone's death, you agree not to blame us even if it is our fault.


#3- If we are a Web site and you use it, no matter what bad things happen, it is not our fault.


#4- If you contribute anything at all to a site or system, we own it.


#5- You will never sue us for anything, ever.


My advice is to have a 13-year-old do all the installations and make all the agreements, since they cannot legally enter into these contracts. I wish someone would try that trick and litigate it.
-------------------
--Walter


----------



## shulcslt

A few minutes after posting the "update" to my ticket, Roxio Support offered me a refund for Toast 8. Under other circumstances, this would pretty effectively shut me up and make me go away.

However, in this instance, I'm not sure whether I'm going to take them up on it. I have used Toast for years and have upgraded time and time again and continue to use the product for other disk burning tasks. My interest really is for a fix for the A/V sync issue.


----------



## wdave

I read that refund offer as bad news, that perhaps they don't intend to fix it anytime soon.


----------



## shulcslt

wdave said:


> I read that refund offer as bad news, that perhaps they don't intend to fix it anytime soon.


I was thinking the same thing. Which doesn't please me a whole lot.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

I don't have a dog in this fight. But I think it's quite reasonable for a company to offer you your money back for software you're not satisfied with. Isn't that more than fair?


----------



## SnakeEyes

Is there anyway to get video run through tivodecode to play in Quicktime with audio?


----------



## Sluggo042

wdave said:


> I read that refund offer as bad news, that perhaps they don't intend to fix it anytime soon.


Or that Roxio has realized that the ultimate cause of the bug is something going on in Tivo's software, and that they're thus unable to provide a work around. How often does Tivo update their software? Once, maybe twice a year, tops? Even presuming that Tivo wants to put any effort into fixing something they bolluxed up in the last so-called upgrade in the first place?

Doug G.


----------



## shulcslt

Phantom Gremlin said:


> I don't have a dog in this fight. But I think it's quite reasonable for a company to offer you your money back for software you're not satisfied with. Isn't that more than fair?


Don't disagree, in the least and didn't say anything different, in my posts, I indicated that normally, it'd shut me up and I'd simply go away - satisfied. However, in this instance, I'd really rather have a product that works.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> Or that Roxio has realized that the ultimate cause of the bug is something going on in Tivo's software, and that they're thus unable to provide a work around. How often does Tivo update their software? Once, maybe twice a year, tops? Even presuming that Tivo wants to put any effort into fixing something they bolluxed up in the last so-called upgrade in the first place?
> 
> Doug G.


Doug,

Good point, but, if so, wouldn't it behoove them to at least communicate that, in some way, to us?

Jon


----------



## cnsayre

Sluggo042 said:


> Or that Roxio has realized that the ultimate cause of the bug is something going on in Tivo's software, and that they're thus unable to provide a work around. How often does Tivo update their software? Once, maybe twice a year, tops? Even presuming that Tivo wants to put any effort into fixing something they bolluxed up in the last so-called upgrade in the first place?
> 
> Doug G.


I think this is the root of it all. If I use other means of getting programs off of my Tivo, the result is the same, regardless of the method. After a while, the Tivo server hangs and I have to reboot the Tivo to resume downloads. This happens on all three Tivos I have, and they're three different Series 2 flavors.

I'm thinking that there's something odd about the way the Tivo talks to the Mac that makes it hang. It's a bug, and it's an annoying bug that I'm surprised wasn't caught prior to release. It's like the quite common update bugs where if you do something in a list, the Tivo returns you to another spot in the list rather than where you just were. If that makes sense.

cnsayre


----------



## Sluggo042

cnsayre said:


> I think this is the root of it all. If I use other means of getting programs off of my Tivo, the result is the same, regardless of the method. After a while, the Tivo server hangs and I have to reboot the Tivo to resume downloads. This happens on all three Tivos I have, and they're three different Series 2 flavors.
> 
> I'm thinking that there's something odd about the way the Tivo talks to the Mac that makes it hang. It's a bug, and it's an annoying bug that I'm surprised wasn't caught prior to release. It's like the quite common update bugs where if you do something in a list, the Tivo returns you to another spot in the list rather than where you just were. If that makes sense.
> 
> cnsayre


I think there are several new bugs that are now getting lumped together into this thread. My beef is with the so-called audio sync bug - I've never seen the hang symptom you're describing. Not to dismiss the importance of the symptom you're observing, especially if it's interferring with your use of the program.. I make this point to say that it is possible Roxio is wrestling with several subtle and difficult-to-reproduce problems simultaneously. I'm just hoping that they haven't just given up.

I agree with you on the issue of update bugs - I've noticed the silly list return bug you describe recently. It's nothing critical but continually annoying. It makes a person want Tivo to crank out a fix for it, except that their track record seems to be that they'll break something new for every thing the fix. And one never knows how much more critical the next failure will be.

What I really wish is for Apple to buy Tivo, and have the Steve come in and apply some of that iPod elegance to the product. Not that I expect this to happen.

Doug G.


----------



## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> Doug,
> 
> Good point, but, if so, wouldn't it behoove them to at least communicate that, in some way, to us?
> 
> Jon


You'd think so, wouldn't you? I'm frankly puzzled about why Roxio is being so blockheaded about this. It surely wouldn't take much effort for someone to make a simple comment about the problem, even if it is just Patrick updating us unofficially once a month here in this forum about what's up.

The only theory I can think of is that if it really is a Tivo-side issue, that the contract between the two companies prevents Roxio from making impolitic comments about their partner. I think that's why I tend to believe the problem is of Tivo's making.

Doug G.


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> You'd think so, wouldn't you? I'm frankly puzzled about why Roxio is being so blockheaded about this. It surely wouldn't take much effort for someone to make a simple comment about the problem, even if it is just Patrick updating us unofficially once a month here in this forum about what's up.
> 
> The only theory I can think of is that if it really is a Tivo-side issue, that the contract between the two companies prevents Roxio from making impolitic comments about their partner. I think that's why I tend to believe the problem is of Tivo's making.
> 
> Doug G.


I think I pretty much agree with what you've written.

There is one other data point that I think should be thrown into this mix - both of my current TiVo's are Humax DVD burners. I use (actually would LIKE to use) Toast to burn DVDs only for shows that are between 2 and 2.5 hours in length (which covers a lot of films). My default video setting is "High Quality" and the TiVo software, on the Humax units, forces any show of more than 2 hours, even 2 hours and ONE minute, onto two discs, while Toast (when it works) will allow me to get up to 2.5 hours on a disc, with no noticeable loss of resolution. DVDs, burned on the TiVos, do not have the A/V sync issue - even those which will have the problem if I try with Toast.

I'm not sure that this proves anything, but it does, perhaps, point to the problem being Roxio's.

Jon


----------



## Sparkylulu

Has anyone heard anything? Is there any movement on this problem????


----------



## Sluggo042

Sparkylulu said:


> Has anyone heard anything? Is there any movement on this problem????


In short, no.

There's been a little more discussion of the problem over on the Roxio Support Forums (see http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=28792) but there's really not much new over there. Certainly nothing from Roxio.

Roxio has chosen not to say anything about this problem. They're beginning to close support tickets without having solved the problem. The case may be either that (a) Roxio's contractual arrangement with TIVO prevents them from speaking out regarding the true nature of this problem, or (b) they've decided that the Tivo-To-Go feature (which they still use as a selling point in their advertising) has become more trouble to support than it is worth, and have abandoned its support. I urge someone from Roxio to contradict this, but their actions to date argue against this happening.

Doug G.


----------



## Pictor Guy

Well, it's good to know. I was about to upgrade from Toast 7 to take advantage of the features of my new TiVoHD's but if TTG isn't working as advertised then I'll save my money.


----------



## wildcardd

And now...the Lockdown!!!

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=28792&st=180


----------



## shulcslt

wildcardd said:


> And now...the Lockdown!!!
> 
> http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=28792&st=180


Finally at least SOMETHING! Here's what "John from Roxio" posted:

I just wanted to respond to this thread personally and let you know that we have already been keeping an eye on the discussion. We are currently investigating some issues relating to TiVo files both with our Windows and our Macintosh software. We are aware that the issues exist, but at this time we do not have a work around for the issues that are occurring.

At this point, I am going to go ahead and close down the discussion because I don't think it will be beneficial to speculate any more regarding the cause of the problem. Suffice it to say that we recognize that problems exist and we have our top people working on it. Thanks for your patience in regards to this issue.


----------



## Sluggo042

shulcslt said:


> Finally at least SOMETHING!


Well, I will admit that I'm surprised that we were able to talk about it for as long as we did. I was rather hoping that the increasingly strident tone of the conversation would force them to chime in at some point, so I guess in that sense, we were successful.

But ye flipping gods, wouldn't have just been easier to say something like that in the first place? I still don't get the need for all the mystery.

I wouldn't even mind the thread being locked if that meant it stayed up in the Pinned list, as I otherwise suspect that their hope is that the thread will become progressively pushed down the list until it is totally lost among all the other chatter.

I just wish this gave us some hope of a fix at some given point, but from the tone of his words, it doesn't even sound like they have a lock on the problem yet, much less a fix. Or that they know the schedule for a fix is completely out of their hands, requiring some input from Tivo.

They really need to stop advertising Tivo-to-Go compatibility at this point.

Doug G.


----------



## fredric100

Sluggo042 said:


> They really need to stop advertising Tivo-to-Go compatibility at this point.
> Doug G.


I agree. I'm going to try to get some press coverage of this issue. The headline is, "TiVo Broken, Customers Outraged, Company Silent." The relevant points:

*The Problem*
- TiVo to Go is a core feature allowing transfer of recorded shows from TiVo to DVDs and personal media players. The feature failed almost 6 months ago. It relies on software from TiVo and Roxio.
- Both Windows and Mac users are affected.

*Response from the Companies*
- TiVo has failed to correct the issue after numerous customer complaints.
- Roxio has shut down the discussion of the failure on its support site, and closed the relevant tickets without resolving the issue or publishing a timeline to fix it.
- Both companies continue to advertise the long-time non-working feature to new customers.

*Response from Customers*
- This thread, documenting the failure, has been viewed 20,000 times.
- Customers have started a mail-in protest campaign to the TiVo CEO, with over 90 protest letters downloaded in the past month.
- Customers are considering filing complaints with the Attorneys General in the states wherein these products are sold, under state consumer protection statutes, regarding the unfair and deceptive trade practices of the vendors.

Does this seem about right?


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

fredric100 said:


> I agree. I'm going to try to get some press coverage of this issue. The headline is, "TiVo Broken, Customers Outraged, Company Silent." The relevant points:
> 
> <snip good stuff>
> 
> Does this seem about right?


Awesome. I'd say "couldn't have done it better" but it'd be more correct to say "Couldn't have done it as well."

Factual, concise, direct, and information-dense.

Nice job!

(For the record -- unrelated to your post but commenting on the Roxio thread being closed - I didn't read anything in the Roxio guy's post that said to me "it's our fault". In fact the language was sufficiently vague in several sections as to be "damning silence" with a finger pointing at TiVo. I know there is a problem with TiVo, I don't use Roxio and this problem started after the Fall Update.)


----------



## wildcardd

I noticed on another site that QuickTime was just updated to 7.4.1. Anyone try this yet? I guess I am hoping that it was a QT issue or did we blow that theory out of the water?


----------



## shulcslt

Sluggo042 said:


> Well, I will admit that I'm surprised that we were able to talk about it for as long as we did. I was rather hoping that the increasingly strident tone of the conversation would force them to chime in at some point, so I guess in that sense, we were successful.
> 
> But ye flipping gods, wouldn't have just been easier to say something like that in the first place? I still don't get the need for all the mystery.
> 
> I wouldn't even mind the thread being locked if that meant it stayed up in the Pinned list, as I otherwise suspect that their hope is that the thread will become progressively pushed down the list until it is totally lost among all the other chatter.
> 
> I just wish this gave us some hope of a fix at some given point, but from the tone of his words, it doesn't even sound like they have a lock on the problem yet, much less a fix. Or that they know the schedule for a fix is completely out of their hands, requiring some input from Tivo.
> 
> They really need to stop advertising Tivo-to-Go compatibility at this point.
> 
> Doug G.


Doug,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you've written. I can't but wonder, though - if the problem is more TiVo's than Roxio's as has been suggested here - why iSquint and Visual Hub, both coming from a developer, with vastly less resources than Roxio (and, I assume, no direct access to input/support from TiVo), handle the files gracefully, with no sync issues.

The more cynical part of me has to wonder if a "Toast 9" "upgrade" isn't the reason for the lack of a fix.

Jon


----------



## Andy D

Just to add another data point here. I just got my TiVo HD installed this week and I am successfully using TiVoToGo to transfer shows to my iMac G5 and have Toast make iPod files. I've not tried burning DVD's as that was not what I wanted, I only wanted to be able to put programs on my Mac and iPod.

My system:

TiVo HD with Fall 2007 update 9.2...something

iMac G5

OS X 10.4.10
Quickitme 7.4.0
Toast 8.0.3

As for purchased, protected AAC's from the iTunes Store, to my knowledge, right now they do not play on anything other than iTunes or iPod.

When I purchase music from iTunes, I immediately convert it to MP3s so I can use it on my Slimserver network. I have heard that this will also be necessary on TiVo.

I was able to stream MP3 music files from my iMac to TiVo and stream photos from iMac to TiVo. The only thing I do not like is that the slideshow is silent. Anybody know how to have a playlist playing while the slideshow is playing?

I need to get a new computer as my iMac G5 is beginning to show it's age. I hope the current TiVoToGo problem is not an Intel/Mac problem.

Last thought, the promise of TiVoToGo functionality was the reason I purchased TiVo over other solutions (such as Charter's DVR). So it is important to me that it work properly.

[edit]

Oh, yeah, my TiVo does not have any CableCards installed, so I am not receiving digital TV, just the analog cable, and ** none ** of the programs have been in HD. All from TCM or AMC.

Later,

Andy


----------



## fredric100

I was just contacted by a reporter from CNET after emailing details of this sorry mess to their news tips line. Hopefully they'll shine a light on it. Of course I'll keep you all posted regarding any press coverage which results.

- Fred


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

Some butthead exec at Tivo (maybe in Bangalore) is sitting there thinking "You mean covering my ears, closing my eyes & making a loud "MMMMMMM" humming noise won't make them go away?!?!? Jeez, nowadays customers even expect things to WORK!"

I've also found that writing to the board of directors (in spite of the cozy exec-board relationships we've all heard of) can pay big dividends. Just ask my Dad & the board of directors for Toll Bros. builders. A legitimate complaint with supporting evidence never goes ignored by a dilligent / respectable B.O.D. Whether or not TiVo has such a board I can't say.


----------



## fredric100

A reporter for CNET News.com named Erica Ogg is now researching a story about this issue for CNET. She just emailed me about it. She has read this thread and also contacted TiVo and Roxio for their comments.

*THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO HAVE AN IMPACT. She wants to hear from you for her story.*

She needs to know:

_How the feature failed? When did you notice? How? What did you do? What exactly has TiVo said to you about it? Would you be willing to discuss your experience in more detail with her?_

If you're comfortable with it, please include your name and phone number in your email.

*Send your email to Erica at [email protected]
Subject: TiVo is Seriously Broken*

Please, please, pitch in and send your email to Erica... if she only hears from me, I'm just peeing into the wind on this.

- Fred


----------



## Sluggo042

fredric100 said:


> Please, please, pitch in and send your email to Erica... if she only hears from me, I'm just peeing into the wind on this.
> 
> - Fred


That was a good idea. I've sent in my own synopsis to Ms. Ogg - as one of the unofficial ring leaders here, I hope it helps.

I've also sent a report in to MacInTouch detailing the problem. If I was a Mac-using TiVo customer just looking to set up a link between my machines, I'd sure like to know beforehand that there are problems with the process before I spent a lot of time trying to fix a problem that was beyond my control.

Doug G.


----------



## Sparkylulu

I, too, have sent a synopsis to Ms. Ogg. Hopefully the problem will be addressed.
I suggest that everyone who has posted here or followed this thread shoot off an email to her as well. Let's try to get some results.


----------



## fredric100

I just got a new email from a Senior Editor at CNET, John Falcone. He works with Erica, and tells me that CNET is investigating the problems with TTG.

*For the CNET story, John would like to hear from WINDOWS USERS who are having problems with TiVo to Go. Please email John describing your WINDOWS problems at [email protected]*

If you're comfortable with it, please include your name and phone# in your email.

John told me of another article appearing here today about the problem.

We're starting to get some good press coverage - THANKS to everyone for the help!!

- Fred


----------



## shulcslt

Can't say much about it, but it looks VERY likely that there's good news out there and real progress being made.


----------



## patatrox

shulcslt said:


> Can't say much about it, but it looks VERY likely that there's good news out there and real progress being made.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=383982


----------



## fredric100

Just to update everyone, John Falcone, the CNET Senior Editor, emailed me that CNET is currently working on duplicating the problem in their lab, for a possible upcoming story.

If you have not already done so, go ahead and email CNET to describe your TiVo to Go problems since the Fall Update:

*[email protected]
Subject: TiVo is Seriously Broken*

- Fred


----------



## TiVo Kid 2003

fredric100 said:


> Just to update everyone, John Falcone, the CNET Senior Editor, emailed me that CNET is currently working on duplicating the problem in their lab, for a possible upcoming story.
> 
> If you have not already done so, go ahead and email CNET to describe your TiVo to Go problems since the Fall Update:
> 
> *[email protected]
> Subject: TiVo is Seriously Broken*
> 
> - Fred


Just did, I'm one of the Windows users with the problem. I mentioned that only my Humax gives me the problem, although maybe it's related to the problems with the channels/programs I record on that unit, as opposed to the unit itself.

A guy who works in our corporate law office (for whatever that's worth) indicated that if TiVo indeed has broken/failed to provide something that users are paying for (TTG), everyone could be eligible for refunds on the monthly fees since the wound was opened, at a minimum. TiVo's silence on all this is damning.


----------



## Craigyg69

A link to the article:

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9867932-7.html?tag=nefd.top


----------



## fredric100

Craigyg69 said:


> A link to the article:
> 
> http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9867932-7.html?tag=nefd.top


To everyone on this thread who sent an email to the CNET reporters: well done :up:


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## wildcardd

fredric100 said:


> To everyone on this thread who sent an email to the CNET reporters: well done :up:


Good job to you Fred. The article was perfect.

At any rate, it looks like Roxio is increasing the priority on this one.

Was CNet ever able to duplicate the issue on their system?


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## Sparkylulu

"One TiVo owner of five years who asked not to be identified said the feature provided by Roxio's Toast software is no longer usable, but that TiVo and TiVoToGo are such an integral part of his and his family's routine, he's not interested in simply changing DVR companies.

"Trouble is, the company still advertises the features on their website as though they are still supporting these features," the TiVo user said. "Most of us don't want a rebate. We want our program to work the way it's supposed to."

Neat.
Looks like we will get results.


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## Phantom Gremlin

A tip of the hat to those of you who got this problem noticed by "the media".

These forums are often "therapy" for those of us with various problems with our TiVo boxes. But *****ing here is rarely more than that, since TiVo pretty much ignores the site. Exhibit A is the "Fall 2006" pricing fiasco. After a TiVo representative opened the thread, the company disappeared after the questions got too pointed. And the pricing didn't get improved for an entire year.

Let's hope it doesn't take a year for TiVo and Roxio to fix the current TTG/Toast problems.


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## fredric100

wildcardd said:


> At any rate, it looks like Roxio is increasing the priority on this one.
> 
> Was CNet ever able to duplicate the issue on their system?


John at CNET said they were going to try to duplicate some of the problems we were reporting. He didn't share any results with me, but I'll ask him whether they followed through, and if so, what results they got.


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## Sluggo042

fredric100 said:


> To everyone on this thread who sent an email to the CNET reporters: well done :up:


Well, so much for me and Fred getting our invites to the next Tivo and Roxio company parties. 

Doug G.


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## fredric100

Phantom Gremlin said:


> *****ing here is rarely more than that, since TiVo pretty much ignores the site. Exhibit A is the "Fall 2006" pricing fiasco.


That's a good point. I'm starting to think that what we really need is an independent TiVo User's Group that knows when, where, and how to apply its collective mass. That way, when issues like this arise, we could throw some real weight into our contacts with the vendors and the press. Issues such as:

- How much advertising will we tolerate?
- What new features do we need?
- What needs fixing?
- What pricing policies are equitable?

I think there are about 1.5 million TiVo subscribers. If we could capture 2% of them in an Independent Users Group, we could speak out with the voice of 30,000 subscribers when necessary, instead of just talking to ourselves in this freaking echo chamber.

Anyone know if such a group already exists for TiVo users? Would it be worthwhile to form one?

- Fred


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## imkidd57

Just to let you guys know we picked up this story from c|net and have an article on the CD Freaks news page since Saturday. Needless to say there's links back to the c|net copy and this thread: we are not professional news writers but sincerely hope that spreading the word a bit further will help.


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## fredric100

imkidd57 said:


> Just to let you guys know we picked up this story from c|net and have an article on the CD Freaks news page since Saturday. Needless to say there's links back to the c|net copy and this thread: we are not professional news writers but sincerely hope that spreading the word a bit further will help.


Hey - *thank you very much.* It absolutely will help, and thanks also for giving us the heads-up here.

CD Freaks is extremely cool. The story is here.


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## HaroldBuck

fredric100 said:


> I- Customers are considering filing complaints with the Attorneys General in the states wherein these products are sold, under state consumer protection statutes, regarding the unfair and deceptive trade practices of the vendors.


Is there the potential for a class-action lawsuit?


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## wildcardd

HaroldBuck said:


> Is there the potential for a class-action lawsuit?


Let's not go that far. Roxio is working on a fix...finally.

Besides, class action lawsuits only make money for the lawyers.


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## TiVo Kid 2003

wildcardd said:


> Let's not go that far. Roxio is working on a fix...finally.


Not all of us have problems that involve Roxio. Their fix won't help me.


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## tygrr

Add me to the "small subset" of users who feel they threw their $99 bucks away on a copy of Roxio Toast that currently can not burn DVD's from Tivo files. I asked for a refund and Roxio reponded with the pat 15 days return policy. Hope a fix is soon.


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## Phantom Gremlin

wildcardd said:


> Besides, class action lawsuits only make money for the lawyers.


True. But they also

1) cost a company money
and
2) generate bad publicity for the company

The hope is that some combination of #1 and #2 will help deter companies from behaving quite as badly in the future. That's a good thing.


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## Sparkylulu

it's been a week since the last missive.
Anyone hear anything?


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## wdave

Well, I finally gave up and convinced Roxio to give me a full refund on Toast, which I had purchased at the end of October of last year. It took 3 weeks, but the refund finally hit my credit card account this week.


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## fredric100

wdave said:


> Well, I finally gave up and convinced Roxio to give me a full refund on Toast, which I had purchased at the end of October of last year. It took 3 weeks, but the refund finally hit my credit card account this week.


Glad they at least coughed up your money.


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## Phantom Gremlin

I think it really sucks that software, overall, is so buggy these days. For whatever reason.

But I applaud Roxio for their policy. I've lost a few dollars here and there on bad software. I've read horror stories of people losing MANY dollars on bad software for which they were unable to obtain a refund.


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## Sparkylulu

So that's what we've decided? Giving up and refunds?
Okay, glad we convinced CNet to do that article. Glad we downloaded all those letters to Tivo and sent them out. 

Okie doke.


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## fredric100

Sparkylulu said:


> So that's what we've decided? Giving up and refunds?
> Okay, glad we convinced CNet to do that article. Glad we downloaded all those letters to Tivo and sent them out.
> 
> Okie doke.


I totally share your passion about this, but I wouldn't say that getting a refund equates to giving up. On the contrary, customer demands for refunds increases pressure on Roxio to fix the problem.


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## Sluggo042

I, for one, wouldn't say that this is the time to throw in the towel. There are definite signals that the problem is now being addressed, something I wasn't able to say around the time of the CNET article. I think there will be a solution in the not too distant future.

Doug G.


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## patatrox

Sluggo042 said:


> I, for one, wouldn't say that this is the time to throw in the towel. There are definite signals that the problem is now being addressed, something I wasn't able to say around the time of the CNET article. I think there will be a solution in the not too distant future.
> 
> Doug G.


While we haven't received anywhere near the 50 people we wanted to test with, the beta program is moving along quite nicely. There was a new build seeded out to testers yesterday and so far we've had a few positive reports.

If all goes well and further feedback is positive we hope to release updaters for both Toast 8 and Popcorn 3 before the end of next week.


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## SoupMan

If you're still taking testers, I'd join in.


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## benvon

Yeah, how do we sign up to test? I'm game if it's still open.

Ben


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## bedelman

benvon said:


> Yeah, how do we sign up to test? I'm game if it's still open.
> 
> Ben


Check out this thread started by patatrox...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=383982


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## Alfiejr

wow that's great news, patatrox. with a target date, no less! got my fingers crossed. i like Popcorn a lot, and it's very frustrating i can't grab stuff off my TiVo with TiVo Transfer. i can see it, but can't get it.


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## tivochiguy

Here's the response I received from Roxio when I opened a ticket a week ago. It took them five days to respond. I tried to online chat before opening the ticket and after 20 minutes working with a tech they gave up and told me to open a ticket myself. Great customer service.

"Thank you for contacting Roxio Technical Support

Do you have the 9.2 TiVo update? If so, this may be the problem. The 9.2 update allows you to use the Series 3 box with TiVoToGo but sometimes causes some copy-write issues with some of the files transfered.

This is an issue that TiVo should be fixing with their next update.

If the information provided does not resolve your issue simply update your webticket with a detailed explanation with the steps you have tried and any error messages you receive. "

Why is this not on Roxio's site!


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## bedelman

tivochiguy said:


> ...but sometimes causes some copy-write issues with some of the files transfered.


Someone needs to tell them how to correctly spell copyright...


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## TiVo Kid 2003

Anyone else get the Tivo News email today?

Here's a quote that really rammed home a point in my mind, the difference between the Tivo of old, when they were just getting started, and the globalized / distributed / "not my problem" TiVo of today:

_*"Everyone worked almost straight through without a break the entire month of March," says Bob Poniatowski, a TiVo employee since Day One. "Our engineers spent many nights working and sleeping at TiVo. One of the hall closets was designated for blankets and pillows."*_

I'm guessing the $10/hr engineers in Bangalore & Moscow aren't exactly staying up at night worrying about the current problems in the TiVo software. And obviously upper management is concerned about the short-term stock price than the discontent within the user community.

Oh well, Rome fell, every empire is destined at some point to collapse.


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## Phantom Gremlin

TiVo Kid 2003 said:


> And obviously upper management is concerned about the short-term stock price than the discontent within the user community.


It might not be concern about the short-term stock price. I could understand that. I might disagree with it, but I could understand it.

Following is my guess as to what is happening.

I think the problem is much more fundamental. The current CEO is a "media type". See coffee house thread that points to a Fortune article. A quote from the article says:

*Former NBC executive Tom Rogers has made a priority of signing deals between TiVo and big media firms.*

The CEO is a glad-handing dealmaker who is probably so technologically illiterate that all his VCRs used to blink 12:00. Do you think this guy gives a flying f*** about software bugs?

I have no personal knowledge of Mr Rogers. But what I *do* have personal experience with is managers who don't understand (some aspect of) technology and consequently treat it as simple, trivial, unimportant, uninteresting.

The CEO sets the tone for the company. Many of the technically capable early employees have left TiVo. New management doesn't understand technology and doesn't see the value of having good engineers design good hardware and write good software.

That's how we got to where we are today.


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## TiVo Kid 2003

Phantom Gremlin said:


> Many of the technically capable early employees have left TiVo. New management doesn't understand technology and doesn't see the value of having good engineers design good hardware and write good software.


Good point. I meant to ask a rheotorical question in my previous post, "I wonder how many hardware & software staff from the original product are left?"

I know when I've left product development jobs, the people who fill in the vacancy just don't have the same sense of ownership and they don't have the same domain knowledge (and they're usually more junior, as the product is "developed" and now it just needs to be "maintained".)

While I'm not so silly as to say that every TiVo developer should be able to write a device driver in assembly language and dream of code & schematics, when your franchise is a hi-tech "box", you should damn well focus on making on that box works as well as possible.

Instead, Rogers seems more focused on ensuring the TiVo experience becomes more and more invasive.


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## Sparkylulu

well, I give up. The ONLY reason we still have our series 2 hooked up is for me to offload stuff and transfer it to my ipod. When we go HD I'm just going to say, Eff Tivo. I'll go with the crappy DirecTV and be done with it.
What are we going on? 7 months? This is stupid.


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## Alfiejr

Well, Toast 9 reportedly has fixed the problem. so now just waiting for a Popcorn 3 patch.

although Toast 9 has some good new features, it's actually worth buying.


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## metivo

patatrox said:


> There was a new build seeded out to testers yesterday and so far we've had a few positive reports.
> 
> If all goes well and further feedback is positive we hope to release updaters for both Toast 8 and Popcorn 3 before the end of next week.


The end of "next week" was two weeks ago now. Are we to assume that all Toast 8 owners have now been abandoned, having wasted our money in hopes of having TiVoToGo work on a Mac?

Martin


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## tivochiguy

metivo said:


> The end of "next week" was two weeks ago now. Are we to assume that all Toast 8 owners have now been abandoned, having wasted our money in hopes of having TiVoToGo work on a Mac?
> 
> Martin


I can't agree more. Roxio has provided no updates here to their dedicated user base. I agree that upgrading to a new version of Toast should NOT be the answer.


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## Dennis Wilkinson

tivochiguy said:


> I can't agree more. Roxio has provided no updates here to their dedicated user base. I agree that upgrading to a new version of Toast should NOT be the answer.


http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-03/mac-tivotogo-roxio-responds/


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## donsig

Just noticed this at the Roxio software updates page this morning:

Toast 8 Titanium v8.0.4:
Resolves issue where EyeTV recordings were not visible in Media Browser
Resolves a number of TiVo related audio/video sync issues​
Downloading it now.

Jeff


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## donsig

I just successfully burned 2 - 1 hours shows using Toast 8.0.4 that previously had audio-sync problems using 8.0.3.


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## fredric100

donsig said:


> Just noticed this at the Roxio software updates page this morning:
> 
> Toast 8 Titanium v8.0.4:
> Resolves issue where EyeTV recordings were not visible in Media Browser
> Resolves a number of TiVo related audio/video sync issues​
> Downloading it now.
> 
> Jeff


Just got the same update notification for Toast 9. Testing now.
Fred

Toast 9 Titanium v9.0.2

* Resolves a number of encoding issues related to high-definition source content and creation of Blu-ray video discs
* Resolves situation where high-definition DVDs would not play back on PlayStation 3
* Resolves a number of TiVo related audio/video sync issues


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## metivo

Burned my first DVD with Toast 8.0.4. Better, but still has audio sync problems.

This TiVo video had bad audio sync problems from the beginning of the video when I burned it with 8.0.3.

Burned with 8.0.4, the DVD audio is fine till around 1 hr 23 mins into the show, but then it's badly out of sync (a second or two) from there till the end of the 2 hr show.

I notice that 8.0.4 didn't come with TiVo Transfer, although 8.0.3 did.


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## bedelman

metivo said:


> ...I notice that 8.0.4 didn't come with TiVo Transfer, although 8.0.3 did.


Yes it does -- I just installed the update too. You need to enable the checkbox when you're going through setup.

I've found the update works best if you trash the existing Toast 8 folder first (assuming you don't have any of your own files in it)


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## metivo

Ah, thanks, Bob. I missed that because I had managed to accidentally quit out of the installer for 8.0.4 and thus had not seen that option (it still got "installed"). (I saw it in 8.0.3 and 8.0.1 but that was long ago.) I finally figured out that I could run Toast Setup Assistant from Toast's Help menu and was able to get it to install TiVo Transfer from 8.0.4 -- only to discover that it's the same exact version of TiVo Transfer as in 8.0.3.


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## derekcbart

Hi there.

I don't know why this would be, but TiVo Transfer (v1.2.1 comes with Toast 9.0.2) seems to work fine on all programs/channels except for Torchwood on HDNet. The last few episodes only transfer about 5MB before stopping. This was happening occasionally with Toast 8 too so it is probably an issue with the program and/or HDNet, but what could it be and is there anything I can do to fix it?

Thanks.

-Derek


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## Dennis Wilkinson

derekcbart said:


> I don't know why this would be, but TiVo Transfer (v1.2.1 comes with Toast 9.0.2) seems to work fine on all programs/channels except for Torchwood on HDNet. The last few episodes only transfer about 5MB before stopping. This was happening occasionally with Toast 8 too so it is probably an issue with the program and/or HDNet, but what could it be and is there anything I can do to fix it?


My understanding was that some or all of the "failed to transfer" problems are with the TiVo's software and not Toast. Maybe this 9.3 update that seems to be trickling out will help?


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## shulcslt

Dennis Wilkinson said:


> My understanding was that some or all of the "failed to transfer" problems are with the TiVo's software and not Toast. Maybe this 9.3 update that seems to be trickling out will help?


It doesn't.


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## Bija

I just wanted to post the out of sync problems I have had using TiVo to Go with Toast 8, 9 and Popcorn 3. I have all of these versions because I am the editor of a Mac user group newsletter and am always reviewing new versions of applications our members are interested in. 

Up until about a month ago, I didn't use TiVo to Go because my TiVo wasn't hooked up to broadband, but now it is. I was so excited that I could record shows I want to watch somewhere else and transfer them to my Mac to encode to DVD or export to my iPod, or whatever. Popcorn doesn't have any editing abilities to remove unwanted parts of a video, so I just encoded and burned to DVD a few shows. The first three shows were pretty good, although I noticed the quality was a bit degraded from the originals. Then the 4th show I burned to DVD was out of sync with video and sound.

I experimented by using Toast 9.0.2 and Toast 8.0.3 to re-encode the same video and got the same bad results each time. I tried a couple of different recordings and those were also out of sync. I wish now I had paid more attention to the ones that were not out of sync. Because of having 3 different Roxio programs or versions, I am not sure what I used originally to get the good recordings.

There are postings on Roxio's website forums where others are also having problems with the audio/video sync. I guess we may just have to wait for Roxio to fix it. 

It does appear to me that if I export videos for my iPod, I get good results--but again, I haven't done any recently and that may have been when things were working better.

If lots of people are having this problem, we need to speak out so it gets fixed as soon as possible.


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## bedelman

Try using the Toast 8.04 update that came out recently. It seems to have fixed a lot of the A/V sync issue

And it's worthwhile to use the Toast Video Player to try to play the .tivo files directly since, in many cases, the A/V sync issue can lie within the source itself.


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## GadgetGav

I don't know if this is related, I suspect it is.
I haven't used Tivo Transfers in Toast much recently, but today I decided to move something from my TivoHD to my Mac. I've done it before, I think with OS X 10.5 installed, certainly with everything else the same except maybe the Tivo software which I have no control over the updating of.
When the download finished and I tried to play the file in Roxio Tivo Video Player, it told me the MAK was not correct. The thing is, I can play another file in the same transfer list and it plays just fine. Both came from the same Tivo, both use the same MAK.
The latest file that plays is dated 3/5/08, the earliest one that doesn't is 4/29/08

Is there anything I can do..? I guess trying the Toast 8.0.4 wouldn't hurt, but I'm not paying Roxio again to "upgrade" to Toast 9.


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## shulcslt

GadgetGav said:


> I don't know if this is related, I suspect it is.
> I haven't used Tivo Transfers in Toast much recently, but today I decided to move something from my TivoHD to my Mac. I've done it before, I think with OS X 10.5 installed, certainly with everything else the same except maybe the Tivo software which I have no control over the updating of.
> When the download finished and I tried to play the file in Roxio Tivo Video Player, it told me the MAK was not correct. The thing is, I can play another file in the same transfer list and it plays just fine. Both came from the same Tivo, both use the same MAK.
> The latest file that plays is dated 3/5/08, the earliest one that doesn't is 4/29/08
> 
> Is there anything I can do..? I guess trying the Toast 8.0.4 wouldn't hurt, but I'm not paying Roxio again to "upgrade" to Toast 9.


I've seen the same thing, several times. It's a pain in the butt, but I just bring the file over again using Tivo Download Manager and burn the resulting file with Toast. It's always worked.


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## GadgetGav

Thanks. I've downloaded Tivo Download Manager, so I'll look at that solution.


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## GadgetGav

Excellent..! 
Tivo Download Manager and VLC were able to transfer and play my MPEG2 files. Next I'll try burning them to a DVD with Toast and using the QT conversion function in TDM.


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## GadgetGav

Well, anything other than 'MPEG-2 (native) as the download format crashes mencode on my system. The MPEG route works, so it's not too bad. I guess I'll go searching for help on TDM and mencode.
I'm sure there's more help out there for those apps than there is from Roxio on their $90 one..!


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## Ross Hummel

old posting here but seems related to some issues I have been having.

I am running Toast 9.02. Brought some TiVo recorded movies from the TiVo through TiVo transfer to my machine (Intel iMac) - all was well. Could watch them on the Toast Video Player and could edit out the commercials - GREAT. So, I burn a DVD in Toast of the movie I edited all of the commercials out of and when I play it on apple DVD player (or my home entertainment system) the audio and video are out of sync. The problem seems to be that the edits I did to the video (which show up_or, don't show up in this case_when watching) did not smutaneously happen to the audio - it starts playing and goes through commercials even when the video skips over them.

Any thoughts - the Toast discussion group is not as quick on picking these things up as you folks are - thanks much!


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## jtkohl

Known issue, Roxio hasn't released a fix yet, although they say they have one just about ready (that was a month ago).

I've had better luck using tivodecodemanager (has a CLI tool tivodecode inside) to unwrap the .tivo files into .mpg files, those seem to survive Toast editing better.

But my overall success rate is about 10&#37; moving TiVo recordings to DVD with Toast. Lots of crashes of Toast and failure to obey "reencode never" settings.


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## grigby52

So where are we with this now? No messages since August that I can see. I use Popcorn 3.0.2 and that is the latest version. TivoDecode Manager is way too slow and still it also has sync problems as well. Is there an update or not and if so is it available for Popcorn 3.0.2. I am actually looking at dropping Tivo if I can ascertain that there is a solution for the Fios DVR


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## raianoat

grigby52 said:


> So where are we with this now? No messages since August that I can see. I use Popcorn 3.0.2 and that is the latest version. TivoDecode Manager is way too slow and still it also has sync problems as well. Is there an update or not and if so is it available for Popcorn 3.0.2. I am actually looking at dropping Tivo if I can ascertain that there is a solution for the Fios DVR


you might want to checkout iTiVo. It has taken over where TDM left off.

http://code.google.com/p/itivo/


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