# TiVo Rebooting



## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

My TiVo rebooted itself 4 times last night. 

Has anyone else experienced this and know what it probably causing it


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> My TiVo rebooted itself 4 times last night.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this and know what it probably causing it


Normally only repeatedly using some demanding TivoWeb modules like Tracker, Highlights or Search by Advisory Code would cause repeated reboots in a short period.

If you don't have Tivoweb or a network card and the machine merely kept rebooting on its own while watching recordings then it sounds distinctly like the hard drive is on the way out.

How old is the hard drive in the Tivo?

And what were you doing with the Tivo and/or TivoWeb or TivoWebPlus at the time it rebooted?


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Hi, I don't have/use Tivoweb. TiVo rebooted whilst watching a recorded programme and later when watching live TV.

The hard drive was replaced in March 2005, purchased from Pacelink. 

I had an issue last week when it was locking out on Channel4 / E4 programmes late at night. However now it's just rebooting.

I still have the original hard drive which I can swap back over and Gordon from Pacelink has suggested I send the hard drive back for testing. Just wanted other opinions whether you feel it's hard drive, MB or power supply  

Thanks


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

What make is the drive?

Two years in a TiVo is a long time for any drive, and for some it is _more_ than a lifetime... 

If you have been getting other symptoms as well such as stuttering, pixellation, hanging, freezing etc. then I would definitely suspect the drive. However, quick random reboots with no other symptoms could also indicate a failing PSU.

Probably not worth the expense/hassle of sending the drive back to Ireland for testing. If you don't have any way to test it yourself (eg. no PC) then I would be inclined to suggest replacing both the drive and PSU now and getting it over with.

Unfortunately, given the way TiVos treat drives, and the cheap and nasty construction of the TiVo PSU, it's probably best to regard both items as consumables rather than permanent fixtures.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Probably not worth the expense/hassle of sending the drive back to Ireland for testing.


Hang on but aren't those nice boys at Pacelink actually in Kesh in Northern Ireland, which is all part of her majesty's glorious United Kingdom, much though Gerry Adams and his colleagues obviously long for the day when it may no longer be. And unless I have missed something obvious the Royal Mail charge just the same amount for posting something to Kesh in NI as they do to the headquarters of Tivoheaven at Malmesbury in Wiltshire. Otherwise how could that seller of Cachecards on Ebay, who also operates from Northern Ireland, operate competitively if higher postage or customs duty fees were involved. 



> Unfortunately, given the way TiVos treat drives, and the cheap and nasty construction of the TiVo PSU, it's probably best to regard both items as consumables rather than permanent fixtures.


I was forgetting about the possibility of it being the Power Supply Unit on the way out and I would suggest the best way ahead for the OP would be to get hold of a new PSU for £11 including delivery from www.tivoland.com/spare_parts.html and fit that and see whether or not it rectifys the problem.

If not the time for a new drive may after all well have come but I notice that Pacelink do not really seem to have moved on and are still trying to sell small capacity 120Gb hard drive upgrades for rather high prices. I would suggest it would probably be better to get a larger 250Gb to 400Gb hard drive upgrade from either www.tivoheaven.co.uk or www.tivoland.com


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

I cant recall the make of the harddrive from Pacelink.

Other than the freezing of TiVo, I haven't seen any other problems. Luckily when I purchased a couple of new remotes of Ebay a while ago I got a free PSU.

I am in the process of setting up an old PC pre XP so I can check these things out but not in the short term.

I will probably change over the drive to the old one first and if it runs fine then get another one. I agree about the wasted Expense in sending it back for checking. Just concerned that it might be something more than the PSU or HD.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> the Royal Mail charge just the same amount for posting something to Kesh in NI as they do to [...] Malmesbury in Wiltshire.


True, but if it was a drive of mine that was showing signs of failing after two years in a TiVo I would offer the same advice.

If it's failing in the TiVo, then it's failing. Unless it's still under warranty, then sending it back to get it tested just to prove that it's failing is a waste of money wherever you send it.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

cp33 - I'm intrigued. If you haven't got a PC, how are you making the posts because I want one of them!


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

cp33 said:


> Just concerned that it might be something more than the PSU or HD.


As you have a spare PSU, I would try replacing that first.

If that doesn't fix it then chances are 99% it will be the drive. Motherboard problems are (still, thankfully) very rare.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> cp33 - I'm intrigued. If you haven't got a PC, how are you making the posts because I want one of them!


He clearly has got a PC - just not a pre XP one.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Yes, no magic internet connection through telepathy I'm afraid  

I need to re-build an old PC so I can attach the TiVo harddrive and check it out.

Thanks for all the advice, I will change the PSU and go from there.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> I need to re-build an old PC so I can attach the TiVo harddrive and check it out.


In theory though you can use your modern PC as long as you detach your Windows XP hard drive and put it on one side before attaching any Tivo drives. You can then boot into MFSTools using the CD. However as you know one slip with the XP hard drive attached and your Tivo hard drives are toast due to some special Linux killing boot sector utility that Microsoft seem to have built into Windows 2000, Windows XP and presumably now also Windows Vista?

Beware of using too old a PC though as many of them don't have a BIOS that can cope with today's larger hard drives like 250Gb or 400Gb. You can usually track down an updated BIOS to overcome this but it can be rather a lengthy and/or costly process.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks for that Pete.

TiVo died again 40 minutes ago so just changed PSU and so far so good.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> Thanks for that Pete.
> 
> TiVo died again 40 minutes ago so just changed PSU and so far so good.


Tell us whether it did the trick or not in a couple of days time.

Despite blindlemon's general pessimism on hard drive life expectancy in a Tivo the vast majority do seem to last at least 3 years or so based on failure reports made on this forum.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

I'm not always pessimistic.

According to smartctl, one of the Samsung SV1204H drives in my 'Sky' TiVo has a Power_on_Hours value of 3230201... which is slightly more than *368 years*  :up:


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> According to smartctl, one of the Samsung SV1204H drives in my 'Sky' TiVo has a Power_on_Hours value of 3230201... which is slightly more than *368 years*  :up:


According to smartctl my two Samsung HA250JC Tivo drives, both new and installed at the same time 19 months ago, have the following stats

*******************Drive A************Drive B

Spin Up Time*******5824 hours********5056 hours
Start Stop Count******248*************102
Power on Hours****1863 hours********14186 hours
Power Cycle Count*****247************ 012

So Drive A thinks it has been on for 11 weeks but Drive B thinks it has been 84 weeks. Drive B seems to be almost exactly right but Drive A is wrong by miles.

But Drive A reckons it has had 247 power cycles which is about right over the 84 weeks or so of use while Drive B's 12 power cycles is definitely out by miles.

The lower Spin Up Time compared to Power on Hours would also suggest that the drives have not been spinning nearly as long as they are on but I can think of no reason for why this could be true or for the 15% discrepancy between Drive A and Drive B.

So what exactly do these smasrtctl figures actually mean, as they seem to be wildly inaccurate.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Good news that the TiVo did not power off at all last night, but still early days.

However Match of the Day recording was breaking up badly. This can be a problem in my area if it's bad weather but last night, other than being cold, wasn't too bad.

I suspect that I might be unlucky and have two problems.  

I am going to watch the last few programmes on TiVo and switch the hard drives over and see.

I will update again shortly.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

So far no more shutdowns but it has 'frozen' twice which required a turn off/on.

I suspect that I am going to have a hard drive failure so changing back to original drive today.

If it works fine then looks like I will be checking out TiVo Heaven for a new larger drive.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> If it works fine then looks like I will be checking out TiVo Heaven for a new larger drive.


Depends if you have the cash available to pay for their additional level of service and/or also don't have the time to do it yourself.

The guide at www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo/upgrade3.html covers all the steps involved in upgrading to a larger hard drive.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks Pete. That guide is a lot clearer than the last one I looked at a few years ago. Unfortunately its the PC I currently have a problem with. In a couple of months I would probably have had a go, but TiVo decided not to wait.

It took about 5 hours for the system update after putting the old drive back in, no phone call on that one for a couple of years.

I will test it over this week and then decide what to do.

Thanks for all the advice from eveyone.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> Thanks Pete. That guide is a lot clearer than the last one I looked at a few years ago. Unfortunately its the PC I currently have a problem with. In a couple of months I would probably have had a go, but TiVo decided not to wait.


You mean the Hinsdale guide.

Utter nightmare only fit for Linux professionals and put me off upgrading for ages.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Well it's nearly a week since changing the power supply and swapping back to the original harddrive and I've had no issues.  

Thanks for everyones help, now just need to decide if I can wait and do the upgrade myself and spend a bit more money and a pre-configured one.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> Well it's nearly a week since changing the power supply and swapping back to the original harddrive and I've had no issues.
> 
> Thanks for everyones help, now just need to decide if I can wait and do the upgrade myself and spend a bit more money and a pre-configured one.


If I was you I would do the hard drive upgrade myself and spend the extra money on getting myself a Cachecard and a 512Mb168 Pin PC133 RAM SDRAM DIMM to go with it for the full fat Tivo experience.

All fairly straightforward following the www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo large hard drive, cachecard and tivoweb installation guides. So long that is that you are used to messing around with things like installing cards in PCs, installing memory in them and reinstalling Windows etc? If you managed to change the power supply (not the nicest of tasks) you must be most of the way there.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Any recommendations on a reliable hard drive?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> Any recommendations on a reliable hard drive?


the 300Gb Samsung HD LD

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/Produc...rce=PriceRunner

or

the 400Gb Samsung HD LD

http://www.komplett.co.uk/k/ki.asp?...9D-E46501023430

After its latest price cut to only £75 including delivery the 400Gb drive is the better buy on a per Gb basis.

These are the quietest drives around currently available and also use sufficiently little power that you can even add a second Samsung hard drive later to get a whopping 800Gb or no doubt more capacity as Samsung eventually release 500Gb and even larger IDE hard drives. Don't get the latest Seagate drives as these use so much power that if you put two of them in a Tivo it won't start up.

See www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo and his large hard drive upgrade guide for details of how to install this in your Tivo.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

If they were still readily available I would have no hesitation in recommending a Samsung HA250JC as they run at 5400rpm and have been one of the most reliable drives I've sold. I have a few left, but pre-configured only I'm afraid 

Failing that, Seagates are pretty reliable (and have a 5 year warranty) but are not as quiet as Samsung and don't work in pairs due to power consumption issues. 

If you want a big drive then the Samsung HD400LD is the one to beat.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> I have a few left, but pre-configured only I'm afraid


And of course one could now more or less buy two 400Gb HD LD Samsung drives for a whopping 800Gb capacity from Komplett for the price of just one of your £139 pre prepared 250Gb HA250JC drives.  

Don't get me wrong as you know I believe the HA250JC drive was a great drive in its day as I have two 20 month old ones here myself. But time moves on and the HA250JC is just no longer value for money in the context of current hard drive prices.

Perhaps you could negotiate to buy the whole of that stock of HA200JC drives you located for a knock down price in order to help the supplier clear them out and then let your customers who don't want ultimate hard drive capacity have access to what is still the coolest and quietest drive series for PVRs available.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> time moves on and the HA250JC is just no longer value for money in the context of current hard drive prices.


That depends on how much you value the fact that the HA250JC was and still is the quietest drive around, and runs a lot cooler and with less vibration/hum than 7200rpm drives.

Yes, it's expensive compared to a 7200rpm drive, but the cost on my website reflects the exhorbitant price I had to pay for the ones I have left. My profit margin on the HA250JC is still less than on the HD400LD, which makes it something of a bargain if you look at it that way :up: 


Pete77 said:


> Perhaps you could negotiate to buy the whole of that stock of HA200JC drives you located for a knock down price


I would be interested to know how many people might want a 200gb HA200JC drive - maybe I'll start a poll - but buying up the supplier's complete stock (unless he only has 5 or 10 left!) is not an option as the upfront cost would probably bankrupt me


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## PaulWilkinsUK (Mar 20, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> Yes, it's expensive compared to a 7200rpm drive, but the cost on my website reflects the exhorbitant price I had to pay for the ones I have left. My profit margin on the HA250JC is still less than on the HD400LD, which makes it something of a bargain if you look at it that way :up:


Pete77.. Its all about supply and demand. If, like me, you are busy man with not a lot of time on your hands to faff about sat fiddling on the computer all day, then you'll appreciate that the service being offered is well worth the extra pennies being charged when compared with the amount of time one has to spend preparing TiVo blank disks. Hooray for TiVoHeaven (Pssst any chance of a cheap cachecard ??  )


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

PaulWilkinsUK said:


> (Pssst any chance of a cheap cachecard ??  )


You could always just buy one on Ebay instead. Then market forces may see to it that the other sellers may have to reduce their rather high prices.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

There is me thinking a small 160 perhaps 200gb hard drive and you go reccomended a 300 or 400  

TiVoHeaven do a good service, I've just been a bit to lazy to upgrade myself, but I think it's time to give it a go.


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## ColinYounger (Aug 9, 2006)

Pete77 said:


> Then market forces may see to it that the other sellers may have to reduce their rather high prices.


Pete - I see you put smilies there to indicate you were joking. I've got to say that it looked more like you're attacking our very helpful citrus friend. Which seems a little unfair - especially considering that lurkers on this thread might be here for the first time and may take completely the wrong impression from what might be considered careless words.

Paul summed up the situation perfectly, IMO. I'm perfectly well up on technical matters but also see a bargain when I see one. Spending a day formatting\installing\configuring a new hard drive (and likely getting it wrong) when you can order one already 'sorted' for a 'few pennies' more?

DEAL.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

ColinYounger said:


> I'm perfectly well up on technical matters but also see a bargain when I see one. Spending a day formatting\installing\configuring a new hard drive (and likely getting it wrong) when you can order one already 'sorted' for a 'few pennies' more?


If it was just a few pennies more I 'm sure we would all avail ourselves of the services of TivoHeaven or TivoLand and never do our own upgrade but I must tell you that the difference is not pennies but large numbers of pounds.

For instance you can Get 2 x 400Gb hard drive and a Cachecard from Ebay and 512MB of Ram from Ebuyer and the total cost if you DIY it all will be around £257. But if you bought the same setup from TivoHeaven you would be looking at around £439.

Now to a well off man like you I'm sure that time is money etc and its well worth the extra to save yourself a day's leisure and have the peace of mind it will all work reliably with the job being done by a skilled professional for you. On the other hand for many others £285 is as much as they actually want to spend on an upgrade and perhaps £85 more than they ideally wanted to spend. Thus the thought of paying the professional installer price would probably stop them doing the upgrade altogether.

TivoHeaven offer an excellent service and many people who are busy or who like television but don't like messing around with operating systems and PC innards in detail wil use their service. But equally there are others who are up to doing the upgrade themselves and it would seem silly to encourage them to spend more than they need to on the process.

This is in any case not blindlemon's main job and I have always gained the impression that he is very happy to give advice to others to let them do the upgrade themselves. Howeever if they want him to do the job for them and he has to spend several hours on the job and he is liable for all the ongoing support to the customer when they fit the upgrade and in the first year then naturally he wants a suitable recompense for his time.

I do not criticise TivoHeaven's excellent service and I often recommend it. But on the other hand I believe in free markets and competition and if someone is going to fit a hard drive themselves then I can't really see the merit in encouraging them to buy a Cachecard from TivoHeaven at a price that is designed to encompass after sales support when such users do not need the support so would be much happier buying the cheapest Cachecard from a very reliable and also helpful cheaper supplier on Ebay.

I don't think we should consider ourselves only able to recommend one upgrade route as to me that would smack of cliqueyness. Instead I think we should mention all the upgrade services that we consider value for money and/or to offer excellent service but I have to say that at the present time that is precisely why Pacelink/Kesh Electronics in NI never receive any Tivo Upgrade recommendations from me.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Pete77 said:


> if you bought the same setup from TivoHeaven you would be looking at around £439.


£432 actually 

And nice of you to pick the most expensive upgrade possible as your example too 

TBH I don't sell many of those, but the people who buy them really aren't bothered about saving a few ££ or even £100 - they just want the biggest and best upgrade available, and they want it delivered tomorrow with excellent support and a warranty in case something goes wrong. I'm not going to get into the tired old debate about the costs associated with providing unlimited phone and email support and a full one year warranty again, and as you were fair enough to point out, if people want to do their own DIY upgrade I'm always happy to help out on this forum. I guess at the end of the day it's just horses for courses.


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## PhilG (Jan 15, 2002)

blindlemon said:


> ....... and they want it delivered tomorrow with excellent support and a warranty in case something goes wrong.....


THIS is, of course, one of the key points

How much IS a warranty worth to you? Possibly not much - until you need it

I did have a brand new drive fail on me after 3 months  and, thanks to me paying "over the odds" it was replaced "no questions asked"  (in fact I got a bargain on a new Samsung quiet drive and another 50Gb into the bargain!  )

AND those of us who don't have a pc that they can attach IDE drives to directly are a bit stuffed on the DIY front anyway 

Of course Tivoheaven is not the only way to do an upgrade, but he is my first port of call - not to mention his patience with all my "odd"  questions

PS Are there enough smilies here?


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon said:


> £432 actually
> 
> And nice of you to pick the most expensive upgrade possible as your example too


Well I only did that comparison to be fair because it actually represents the kind of upgrade I carried out over 18 months ago and while it was two HA250JC drives and not two Samsung 400Gb HD LD drives the prices of the components involved were basically identical as the 400Gb Samsung now costs what the 250Gb HA 250JC drives cost me and the price of a Cachecard and 512Mb of Ebuyer Value RAM hasn't changed at all in the intervening period.

And of course as I should have pointed out there is also now the Hooch option and also the bare drive (customer buys drive(s) then sends them to you to configure for a flat fee) TivoHeaven options which both work out a lot cheaper and in the case of the bare drive option especially if you are fitting a two drive setup rather than just one drive. 

As to only having a Notebook PC I actually paid £35 for a secondhand Desktop PC when I did my upgrade as I reckoned I would then still have it around for future upgrades and would still have saved £130 or so even after allowing for buying that.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

I have taken the plunge and ordered the 400gb hard drive.  

In a spare moment at work I formatted a hard drive with a FAT partition, and will use this for my backup. Hope no one tries to use that PC for a couple of days  

I dug out an old PC that has been gathering dust and will use that for the backup and configuration on the new drive.

Hopefully once that has been successful, I will look into getting a cache card, mainly for the quicker menu screens and later I will see about connecting up to the internet.


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

cp33 said:


> I have taken the plunge and ordered the 400gb hard drive.


Hope all goes successfully with the upgrade. You should avoid any heavy slow downs from too many recordings for a long time if you record everything in Best. You might see it slow down a bit when it gets near the maximum 140 hours of recordings though.

The Cachecard and RAM would obviously set you back between £74 (although the Ebay guy says he will supply for £69.99 at the moment if people deselect the carriage option and PM him saying they saw his offer of free postage on here) and £104 or so depending on whether you have access to any old PC133 or slower 168Pin SDRAM DIMMs between 128Mb and 512Mb anywhere. The Cachecard supposedly works almost (but not quite) as well with 128Mb as 512Mb.

Having Tivoweb to control the Tivo and be able to do things that took ages before (like reordering several Season Passes) easily is quite a big advance that will make you feel like you have a whole new and rejuvenated Tivo.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Not a good start, followed the link from Steve C site and burned the image but PC wont boot into Linux.

Ignore that, I just tried the cd in my main PC and it works as it should, its just this cobbled together PC that's not working. Its giving me a boot disk failure message.


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

HELP  

I am in the middle of my upgrade following Steve C's notes and I'm at the point of restore and I'm having a problem.

According to Steve's notes, for a 300GB or larger drive key:-

restore -x -s 300 -zpi -r 4 /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc

This does not work, from the response which lists all the parameters there is not a 'r'.

Anyone else come across this


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## Pete77 (Aug 1, 2006)

blindlemon is a better person than I to answer this question since he is regularly creating Tivo hard drives of this size.


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## blindlemon (May 12, 2002)

Answered in the other thread


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## cp33 (Apr 5, 2004)

Thanks Blindlemon, I am logging off to give it another go. As you can tell I had to take my 'good' PC apart as the other one was useless.


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