# Anyone else receive the update 14.8 ?



## ilkevinli

Today I noticed my software was updated to 14.8. They changed the highlighted color and the icons to any networked Tivos. Thats all I have noticed so far


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## innocentfreak

Someone mentioned it in another thread. This is probably just the initial test rollout so not everyone will get it yet.


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## [email protected]

I have it on one of mine so far.


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## ilkevinli

Here is a screen shot from Slingplayer


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## DonaldBurns65144

As I posted in other thread - there's a new settings screen to allow you to change what shows up on the HDVI.


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## innocentfreak

It looks like the SDUI got the HDUI icons from that screenshot.


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## SteveD

I received this update this morning, also.

In the SDUI...

"Now Playing" changed to "My Shows".

In System Information, there is new information including a Free Disk Space value.

Some menus have a different color scheme and the icons have changed.

That's all I've noticed so far.


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## innocentfreak

**** Red said:


> I received this update this morning, also.
> 
> In the SDUI...
> 
> "Now Playing" changed to "My Shows".
> 
> In System Information, there is new information including a Free Disk Space value.
> 
> Some menus have a different color scheme and the icons have changed.
> 
> That's all I've noticed so far.


It sounds like this may be a precursor to a possible update for the TiVo HD also. If they are able to get this working on the Premiere, we may see these changes on the TiVo HD and some of the changes like the free space indicator would be needed to use with the iPad app which they have said they are working on adding support for older TiVos.


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## morac

innocentfreak said:


> If they are able to get this working on the Premiere, we may see these changes on the TiVo HD and some of the changes like the free space indicator would be needed to use with the iPad app which they have said they are working on adding support for older TiVos.


I doubt you'll see any real updates for the Series 3 models, which is basically in the "end of life" stage. There might be some future bug fix releases, but TiVo definitely won't be porting features from the 14.x software back to the Series 3 models.

The iPad app mentions *limited* support for older TiVos which could simply be something as simple as acting as a remote and displaying the Now Playing list (both which could theoretically already be done today if the app supported it).


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## innocentfreak

morac said:


> I doubt you'll see any real updates for the Series 3 models, which is basically in the "end of life" stage. There might be some future bug fix releases, but TiVo definitely won't be porting features from the 14.x software back to the Series 3 models.
> 
> The iPad app mentions *limited* support for older TiVos which could simply be something as simple as acting as a remote and displaying the Now Playing list (both which could theoretically already be done today if the app supported it).


I wouldn't consider this a real update based off what we know so far. My point was more if they went to the trouble of adding it to the SDUI, it would make sense we may see the change or addition on the TiVo HD.

Other than adding the FSI on the system info screen, these aren't new features we are discussing. These are just minor tweaks to the UI which could potentially be easily ported to the TiVo HD.

I believe the Premiere is running the same code for the SDUI as the TiVo HD so it would probably just be a matter of pushing the update to the TiVo HDs since the work is done.


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## morac

innocentfreak said:


> Other than adding the FSI on the system info screen, these aren't new features we are discussing. These are just minor tweaks to the UI which could potentially be easily ported to the TiVo HD.
> 
> I believe the Premiere is running the same code for the SDUI as the TiVo HD so it would probably just be a matter of pushing the update to the TiVo HDs since the work is done.


There are a number of bugs/feaures that have been fixed in the Premiere branch code (14.x), but haven't been back ported to the Series 3 code (11.x).

A few examples: 
1. When turning closed captioning on/off there are two sound effects in a row on the HD, but only one on the Premiere. 
2. When turning off closed captions the captions tend to get stuck on the screen on the HD. That doesn't happen with the Premiere.
3. The change to the way the instant replay and skip to tick buttons work was never ported back to the HD.

These should have been trivial fixes/changes, yet they haven't been back ported to the 11.x code branch. That tells me that the 11.x code is more or less frozen.

Here's an analogy. While Windows XP and Windows 7 share a lot of the same code, only Windows 7 is getting updates. Windows XP is only getting security and critical fixes, even if newer features added to Windows 7 could easily be implemented in XP. Think of the Series 3 (11.x) code as Windows XP and the Premiere (14.x) code as Windows 7.


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## kturcotte

Any speed improvements?


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## Okeemike

What are the chances of 14.8 improving Tuning Adapter connectivity. So far, I have had ZERO success getting the TA to work with my Premiere.


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## innocentfreak

morac said:


> Here's an analogy. While Windows XP and Windows 7 share a lot of the same code, only Windows 7 is getting updates. Windows XP is only getting security and critical fixes, even if newer features added to Windows 7 could easily be implemented in XP. Think of the Series 3 (11.x) code as Windows XP and the Premiere (14.x) code as Windows 7.


Yes and it would be like adding support for the iPad to XP after support has been added to the Premiere.

The necessary hooks aren't on the TiVo HD from everything I have read so it will have to be updated to work with the iPad rather than the app updated to work with the HD.


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## morac

innocentfreak said:


> Yes and it would be like adding support for the iPad to XP after support has been added to the Premiere.


You keep leaving out the word "limited". It makes a big difference.


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## aaronwt

So no one saw Hulu+?


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## timstack8969

I had "Pending Restart" when I came home from work today. Did the restart and now I have 14.8.U2


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## curiousgeorge

kturcotte said:


> Any speed improvements?


Not in the HDUI. Seems as sluggish as ever.

No Hulu+ that I could find, either.

Pretty much a non-update. Stupid, unnecessary changes like changing the look of icons (recording, swap tuners, up/down arrows on the info screen, etc) while none of the real Premiere issues have been addressed (sluggish, buggy, no parental controls in HDUI, unfinished HDUI, etc). Almost six months since the last non-update and this is what we get.

Par for the course for a TiVo organization that's stopped caring about the customer experience.


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## innocentfreak

morac said:


> You keep leaving out the word "limited". It makes a big difference.


Yes the degree of support will vary. I am not disputing that. TiVo in the beginning when people asked for it to support the Series 3 and TiVo HD said it possibly could but it would be limited.

I am saying even as limited as it may be, from what I have read, and I believe it may have even come from TiVo, the series 3 and TiVo HD don't have the necessary updates to offer any functionality to the iPad app. As a result even for the most limited of functionality, an update to the TiVo HD and Series 3 would be required.



curiousgeorge said:


> Not in the HDUI. Seems as sluggish as ever.
> 
> No Hulu+ that I could find, either.
> 
> Pretty much a non-update. Stupid, unnecessary changes like changing the look of icons (recording, swap tuners, up/down arrows on the info screen, etc) while none of the real Premiere issues have been addressed (sluggish, buggy, no parental controls in HDUI, unfinished HDUI, etc). Almost six months since the last non-update and this is what we get.
> 
> Par for the course for a TiVo organization that's stopped caring about the customer experience.


Unfortunaly TiVo has always been pretty closed lip about their updates. While we do see minor changes to the SD UI, it is possible this is mostly background tweaks or necessary updates for future updates.


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## hungarianhc

I don't use the HDUI, but the SD UI seems snappier to me - just browsing through menus and such. Am I crazy?

Not like I'm going to go out of my way and thank TiVo for this. I want a REAL update that makes the HD UI as snappy as the SD UI, enables real media center functionality, etc... probably won't get it. This is my last TiVo.

Update: I started playing around in the HD menus, to see if they're any better. Nope... Exact same - I can't believe that they still don't have the full UI converted over to HD yet. This is ridiculous. I'm guessing something big is cooking up over there. And by big, i don't mean like big in the software update sense of things or in hardware. Like maybe they've had to fire most of their developers. Or maybe they're preparing for an acquisition. They seem distracted, and the pace of innovation has never been slower.


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## curiousgeorge

innocentfreak said:


> Unfortunaly TiVo has always been pretty closed lip about their updates. While we do see minor changes to the SD UI, it is possible this is mostly background tweaks or necessary updates for future updates.


Yes, but in over a YEAR, they should have at least made some progress on the large list of major Premiere issues. They've made none. That's a failure that the old "customer centric" TiVo never would have stood for.

This is ANOTHER "non-update". Thanks for nothing, TiVo.

EDIT: The way they update the discovery bar seems to have changed. It's better now, but who cares? They really spent their apparently severely limited development time on this stupid cosmetic issue when there are so many REAL PROBLEMS to fix on the Premiere? Grrr.


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## innocentfreak

NVM, it seems my internet was acting up again so traffic was going in or out.


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## caddyroger

Just a little cosmetic changes nothing major. Nothing was done for the HDUI menus or speed of the HDUI menu.


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## crxssi

curiousgeorge said:


> Not in the HDUI. Seems as sluggish as ever. No Hulu+ that I could find, either.
> 
> Pretty much a non-update. Stupid, unnecessary changes like changing the look of icons (recording, swap tuners, up/down arrows on the info screen, etc) while none of the real Premiere issues have been addressed (sluggish, buggy, no parental controls in HDUI, unfinished HDUI, etc). Almost six months since the last non-update and this is what we get. Par for the course for a TiVo organization that's stopped caring about the customer experience.


Well, there are many people with serious bugs and stability problems it MIGHT address. So it is a bit early to completely write off the update as a non-update. Perhaps a non FEATURE or ENHANCEMENT update, but if it does address some of the problems, especially things like:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=456559

it would still be welcome. But I would agree that waiting 6 months and still not even getting more HDUI menus, faster HDUI, or even a Netflix update sounds pretty damn depressing.


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## aaronwt

Three of mine already had it when I got home and two were pending restart. 

It looks like the updating screen/wait a few minutes screen is slightly different.

I guess this updat also has functionality that TiVo can enable when they are ready, like Hulu+.

The pic that ilkevinli posted of the SDUI looks a little better. But I only use the HDUI. The less I see of the SDUI the better.

As long as this update keeps my Premieres as rock solid as they have previously been I guess I can't complain.


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## BigJimOutlaw

When I first turned my TV on and went into the Tivo menu (SDUI) I thought my tv's picture settings had reset. But they weren't. The SDUI looks... sharper somehow. Slightly darker. Not sure what it is exactly (other than icons).


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## crxssi

aaronwt said:


> Three of mine already had it when I got home and two were pending restart. [...] As long as this update keeps my Premieres as rock solid as they have previously been I guess I can't complain.


I know, I know. You never have any problems. And now ALL your machines magically get the newest update, first in the nation. Hmm. Do you play the lottery?


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## aaronwt

crxssi said:


> I know, I know. You never have any problems. And now ALL your machines magically get the newest update, first in the nation. Hmm. Do you play the lottery?


I assumed they rolled it out to everyone.

With a typical rollout I usually have one to three boxes get it initially.


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## innocentfreak

Both of mine also got the update which is rare for me.


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## moyekj

Very interesting, the NowPlaying XML for this 14.8 software (which can be obtained as example URL below with tivo as login and 10 digit MAK as password) contains a new XML field under field for each show I've not seen before:
<StreamingPermission>No</StreamingPermission>

Currently it is set to *No* for all my shows, but certainly makes one wonder what happens if it is set to Yes.


Code:


https://192.168.10.199/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying&Recurse=Yes


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## innocentfreak

Well there were rumors streaming was coming.


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## TheWGP

Man... this is depressing. I'd hoped in the SIX MONTHS since the last update, Tivo could figure out at least SOMETHING to do about ANY ONE of the major Premiere issues. 

It's pretty clear that it was six months since the last update because Tivo considers the Premiere "done" and sees no need for any further updates.

Literally, I can just see the "project list" for the Tivo coders - from their perspective, there's nothing to do but twiddle around with little things like changing colors or icons. HDUI? Remote not responding? Aw, shucks, we fixed those months ago! 

I admit I had a little bit of hope going for this update.... that's dead now. What we've got is what we've got, as Tivo twiddles their thumbs and plays at being a "media company." That's their prerogative, and I'll be the first to acclaim it if they see the error of their ways, but as it is, the best I'm hoping for is a few more good years out of the Tivos I currently have. Hopefully it doesn't get to the point of "downgrades" where we have to seriously consider actively avoiding software updates somehow.


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## crxssi

aaronwt said:


> I assumed they rolled it out to everyone..


If they did, then they chose to skip me (and yes, I forced a connect late last night and nada)


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## socrplyr

crxssi said:


> If they did, then they chose to skip me (and yes, I forced a connect late last night and nada)


It is not being rolled out to everyone. This can easily be seen by the version number 14.8.U2. It would not have a letter after the second dot if it was the full release version...


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## aaronwt

socrplyr said:


> It is not being rolled out to everyone. This can easily be seen by the version number 14.8.U2. It would not have a letter after the second dot if it was the full release version...


Then maybe it's regional or something. UNless it's by manufacture date. Since all mine are launch units and were made with a couple of weeks of each other.

But I've never had all my boxes receive an update at the beginning of a rollout before. There are at least two of them that get it at some point later.


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## MrSkippy53

timstack8969 said:


> I had "Pending Restart" when I came home from work today. Did the restart and now I have 14.8.U2


U2 is beta software. Did u sign up for TiVo fieldtrials?


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## aaronwt

I just noticed the Amazon link says Amazon Instant video. Did it show that before?

EDIT:I guess it did. I thought they had enabled streaming but I just selected a title from the Premiere and it still says it needs to download it. Although at least you can start playing the Amazon titles while they are still downloading.


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## LoREvanescence

MrSkippy53 said:


> U2 is beta software. Did u sign up for TiVo fieldtrials?


It's not beta, it's release candidate.

When a roll out begins they always sending to a few random tivo's to test the waters, and if there isn't a surge on their calling center with issues within a couple of weeks it is sent to the rest of us.

It has always been done this way.


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## rick123

I almost bit on the "last chance to upgrade" email I got a few days ago. Actually did some research to make sure the Premiere's HD were upgradeable now. $469 last day today (5/18) vs $600 starting tomorrow for a base Premiere with lifetime (who would possibly sign up for $20 a month, you're losing money after only two years!).

Does this mean that current non-Premiere Tivo owners will no longer be offered a discounted upgrade to Premiere? I guess that's another question; we'll have to wait and see.

I had pretty much decided not to do it, but still had the tab open in my browser. 

Then this news of a new software update got me interested again, thinking all the multitude of problems (like come on, fix the HD interface already!) would now be fixed. Not to be.

I'm beginning to think that Premiere is just another incremental upgrade to the HD Tivo. Kind of like a test box for new tivo services without the polished final product ever getting to the user. Meanwhile (as stories on the web indicate) they are already developing the next generation box (4 tuners, HD that works, streaming that works, lots of things that actually work). 

I'll wait a few more years for the next generation. It seems like Tivo is just treating it's Premiere users like Beta testers.


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## wemetzger

I have not received the update yet. And don't understand what all the complaining is about.... My Premiere has never had a problem, The HD menus work great, Netflix has my queue, so that's all I really need. Obviously Tivo isn't the market innovator they once were, but it still has one of the best products out there. The premiere works, and works well. At, $469, that is $13 a month for 3 years, which for a superior product, is a good price. And then any time after the 3 years it still works, is just gravy 

Anyways, still have not received my update. I know in San Francisco, they are adding all of Comcast's VOD service. So, this streaming bit that is added to the new code could possibly be related.


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## daveak

moyekj said:


> Very interesting, the NowPlaying XML for this 14.8 software (which can be obtained as example URL below with tivo as login and 10 digit MAK as password) contains a new XML field under field for each show I've not seen before:
> <StreamingPermission>No</StreamingPermission>
> 
> Currently it is set to *No* for all my shows, but certainly makes one wonder what happens if it is set to Yes.
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> https://192.168.10.199/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying&Recurse=Yes


Interesting indeed. I would think once the update is fully rolled out and proved to be stable - They could just turn this feature on and we get streaming between boxes? Would you be able or dare to set it to yes?  As mentioned above, streaming has been part of the rumor mill and the hardware is certainly capable of it. IMHO, they have now set the stage and just need to raise the curtain. This would make it a great update, just on this feature alone.


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## curiousgeorge

daveak said:


> Interesting indeed. I would think once the update is fully rolled out and proved to be stable - They could just turn this feature on and we get streaming between boxes? Would you be able or dare to set it to yes?  As mentioned above, streaming has been part of the rumor mill and the hardware is certainly capable of it. IMHO, they have now set the stage and just need to raise the curtain. This would make it a great update, just on this feature alone.


But it could just as easily be a veiled tag for Hulu+, which would also be streaming. At least Hulu+ has been announced...


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## Philmatic

daveak said:


> Interesting indeed. I would think once the update is fully rolled out and proved to be stable - They could just turn this feature on and we get streaming between boxes?


It's definitley happened before, with Netflix years back and most recently, Pandora. We had the software that was capable of running both apps installed for days (or weeks), and the option was hiddent until TiVo flipped a switch on THEIR end.



curiousgeorge said:


> But it could just as easily be a veiled tag for Hulu+, which would also be streaming. At least Hulu+ has been announced...


That doesn't make sense, why would a Hulu+ related flag be placed in the "My Shows" API? This can only mean streaming, either between boxes, or something we never considered before, possibly something like Slingbox where you can stream remotely?


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## davezatz

Philmatic said:


> This can only mean streaming, either between boxes, or something we never considered before, possibly something like Slingbox where you can stream remotely?


EngadgetHD speculates iPad based on the recent survey, yet given encoding and file size I doubt it. TiVo wants to be mainstream and is too conservative these days to introduce Slingbox functionality.

But both Premiere-to-Premiere streaming and Extenders have been leaked, and I assume that's exactly what it refers to. As to WHEN we can use it, well that's a different question.


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## innocentfreak

davezatz said:


> EngadgetHD speculates iPad based on the recent survey, yet given encoding and file size I doubt it. TiVo wants to be mainstream and is too conservative these days to introduce Slingbox functionality.
> 
> But both Premiere-to-Premiere streaming and Extenders have been leaked, and I assume that's exactly what it refers to. As to WHEN we can use it, well that's a different question.


I definitely think it more points to Premiere to Premiere or Premiere to extender streaming.

I just hope it is sooner rather than later. Then again isn't that what we always hope with TiVo.


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## smbaker

davezatz said:


> EngadgetHD speculates iPad based on the recent survey, yet given encoding and file size I doubt it. TiVo wants to be mainstream and is too conservative these days to introduce Slingbox functionality.


Throw in some ill-conceived attempt to restrict streaming to a single LAN, and I could see them do it.

Personally, I really would like to see streaming to the iPad. If for no other reason than my iPad 2 has HDMI output, and I could then use it as an extender to any TV I wanted to.


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## LoREvanescence

davezatz said:


> EngadgetHD speculates iPad based on the recent survey, yet given encoding and file size I doubt it. TiVo wants to be mainstream and is too conservative these days to introduce Slingbox functionality.
> 
> But both Premiere-to-Premiere streaming and Extenders have been leaked, and I assume that's exactly what it refers to. As to WHEN we can use it, well that's a different question.


yeah, the switch can be thrown well after the software is released.

This sounds like it could be away around copy protection and stream between tivo's. Not that it matters, no flags are set in my area. But good find guys, this looks like something to look forward to


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## crxssi

wemetzger said:


> _ don't understand what all the complaining is about.... My Premiere has never had a problem, The HD menus work great, Netflix has my queue, so that's all I really need. _


_

If you don't have any problems at all, consider yourself very fortunate and be happy.

If you don't understand why people are complaining who *DO* have problems, and there are many of them (including me), then you must be crazy or something._


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## crxssi

davezatz said:


> EngadgetHD speculates iPad based on the recent survey, yet given encoding and file size I doubt it. TiVo wants to be mainstream and is too conservative these days to introduce Slingbox functionality.


They can't effectively introduce Slingbox-like functionality with this hardware, because it would likely require on-the-fly transcoding. I am almost positive this hardware does not have the ability to do transcoding in the chipset and there is certainly nowhere near enough horsepower to do it on the CPU. The only type of streaming the Premiere would be able to push would be native resolution and bitrate to another machine capable of displaying such an extreme (think 1080i at 17 or even more Mb/s) stream.

So while they could push a stream to another Premiere, or HD, or computer, or *MAYBE* an ipad or Android tablet (assuming they could keep up with it AND have a compatible set of codecs) on the local network, trying to *UPLOAD* that through an ISP would be mostly futile... it would have to be transcoded to something with a much lower bit rate (AND possibly more efficient video codec, like H.264).


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## morac

crxssi said:


> I am almost positive this hardware does not have the ability to do transcoding in the chipset and there is certainly nowhere near enough horsepower to do it on the CPU.


Are you sure the hardware can't transcode? I don't recall seeing anything about this on the Premiere, but the encoder chip on the TiVo HD could supposedly transcode (even though it never did so). The Premiere uses a different encoder chip though, the NXP SA7164-CD, and I couldn't find any info on it.

I doubt it can/will transcode, but I'm just curious.


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## crxssi

morac said:


> Are you sure the hardware can't transcode? I don't recall seeing anything about this on the Premiere, but the encoder chip on the TiVo HD could supposedly transcode (even though it never did so). The Premiere uses a different encoder chip though, the NXP SA7164-CD, and I couldn't find any info on it.
> 
> I doubt it can/will transcode, but I'm just curious.


I am not totally sure, but I am almost positively sure


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## daveak

So much speculation (I rather like speculation), but how much time before the 'switch' changes value? Assuming it is a switch, though I really think it is.


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## Philmatic

One thing I just noticed, software version 14.8*P2* is what was listed on Hulu+ testers devices back in March when they were testing Hulu+. What's currently being pushed out is 14.8*U2*, so we can be pretty certain that software brings with it Hulu+ in the code, it's just not flipped on yet.

Source: http://www.engadget.com/photos/tivos-hulu-plus-ipad-streaming-survey/#3957582



crxssi said:


> They can't effectively introduce Slingbox-like functionality with this hardware, because it would likely require on-the-fly transcoding. I am almost positive this hardware does not have the ability to do transcoding in the chipset and there is certainly nowhere near enough horsepower to do it on the CPU. The only type of streaming the Premiere would be able to push would be native resolution and bitrate to another machine capable of displaying such an extreme (think 1080i at 17 or even more Mb/s) stream.


Your post got me thinking, so I dug into the Premier's specs and the only thing that can be use to perform any kind transcoding is the dual MPEG 2 encoder chips that are used to encode analog cable channels to MPEG 2 streams on the hard drive. The NXP SAA7164CE/3 chip in the Premier can support encoding dual streams of MPEG2 [email protected] video up to 10Mbit.

What's not clear is if the source of the video feeding into the encoders can be anything but what's being fed in from the analog tuners, or if it can be fed by another digital source (The hard drive). This is a huge huge HUGE if, I would take it with a grain of salt, because it would be absolutely ridiculous for TiVo to go through all that trouble to figure out how to use existing hardware to transcode video when it would make more sense to just wait for the next hardware refresh and toss in a pair of MPEG4 AVC transcoders to do things properly. That would support true transcoding for both local and remote streaming applications (à la Slingbox) without taxing the CPU.


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## donnoh

If the latest update is as people are reporting then Tivo has spent 6 months on a couple of icon changes and renaming stuff. Sounds about about right to me.

I suppose they said screw the HDUI because nobody uses it so why screw with it. I would love to be the idiot CEO of Tivo, zero innovation=millions of dollars. I get it, somehow corporate America doesn't. On the other hand maybe they do, rape and pillage and take care of the next 6 generations of rape and pillagers.


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## jwagner010

I needed to reset my slide remote after the update.


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## plazman30

You'll all be singing a different tune when 15.0 comes out...


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## JoeTaxpayer

Just impulse purchased the Premiere. I don't know why. Maybe the iPad and faster transfer did it. Now I have more TiVos than TVs. 
I may just tell one Mac to suck down all shows from other TiVos and when I want to watch this one, it will fast start. There's a thought. No card no outlet fee. 
Lifetime series 3 are going for nearly $400 on eBay. Some just over. Just saying.


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## wmcbrine

jwagner010 said:


> I needed to reset my slide remote after the update.


? How does one reset it?


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## LoREvanescence

wmcbrine said:


> ? How does one reset it?


maybe the remote address if it was changed due to multiple tivo's? But, is that still an option with the bluetooth remote?


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## jwagner010

wmcbrine said:


> ? How does one reset it?


Unplug the dongle. Plug it back in and press the button on the dongle.


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## Stuxnet

plazman30 said:


> You'll all be singing a different tune when 15.0 comes out...


Yeah... we'll be praying that 15.1 isn't far behind with the fixes for all things broken


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## curiousgeorge

In the TiVo Hulu+ announcement thread, I'm reminded that in a week it will have been EIGHT MONTHS since it was announced for Premiere "in coming months".

Might as well have measured that in YEARS pretty soon.


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## crxssi

plazman30 said:


> You'll all be singing a different tune when 15.0 comes out...


Yeah, right. If 15 EVER comes, I am sure we will be impressed by several dozen more icon changes, and maybe another SD->HD menu converted.... and a few NEW bugs that will need 15.8 to fix...


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## curiousgeorge

crxssi said:


> Yeah, right. If 15 EVER comes, I am sure we will be impressed by several dozen more icon changes, and maybe another SD->HD menu converted.... and a few NEW bugs that will need 15.8 to fix...


When TiVo's sending out targeted emails asking fans to vote up specific glowing Amazon reviews to counter the growing tide of negative ones, it's pretty clear there's a problem. The stupid part is instead of putting their energy into FIXING it, they're asking that reviews be artificially pumped up to entrap new users with a false sense of pre-purchase awesome.


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## aaronwt

crxssi said:


> Yeah, right. If 15 EVER comes, I am sure we will be impressed by several dozen more icon changes, and maybe another SD->HD menu converted.... and a few NEW bugs that will need 15.8 to fix...


15 will be the version that fixes the Premieres of people that have been having problems, but will probably break mine.


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## TheWGP

curiousgeorge said:


> When TiVo's sending out targeted emails asking fans to vote up specific glowing Amazon reviews to counter the growing tide of negative ones, it's pretty clear there's a problem. The stupid part is instead of putting their energy into FIXING it, they're asking that reviews be artificially pumped up to entrap new users with a false sense of pre-purchase awesome.


I had missed this - do you have any more info / a link / etc? Thanks!

I have noticed the Premiere reviews tend to be mostly feast or famine - either they love it with maybe a couple of quibbles because hey, what's perfect? OR they're jaded because of the various issues or the pricing plan.

Looking forward to the new icon color schemes in update 15.0!  </sarcasm>


----------



## curiousgeorge

TheWGP said:


> I had missed this - do you have any more info / a link / etc? Thanks!
> 
> I have noticed the Premiere reviews tend to be mostly feast or famine - either they love it with maybe a couple of quibbles because hey, what's perfect? OR they're jaded because of the various issues or the pricing plan.
> 
> Looking forward to the new icon color schemes in update 15.0!  </sarcasm>


Picture of one of the targeted TiVo emails asking users to pump up a positive amazon review:

http://twitpic.com/4zfbv3

Actual Amazon Review referenced in the above email:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RX8LUH...36OR910&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful


----------



## TheWGP

curiousgeorge said:


> Picture of one of the targeted TiVo emails asking users to pump up a positive amazon review:
> 
> http://twitpic.com/4zfbv3
> 
> Actual Amazon Review referenced in the above email:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/RX8LUH...36OR910&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful


Wow... thanks for the info. Sorry to derail thread!


----------



## curiousgeorge

TheWGP said:


> Wow... thanks for the info. Sorry to derail thread!


It's pretty much related. TiVo knows they have an image problem, but rather than fix the PRODUCT, they try to massage the IMAGE via online review boosting, which is pretty lame.


----------



## Philmatic

Pricing went live... here we go...

*EDIT:* Sorry, wrong thread... it was pretty late when I posted this.


----------



## curiousgeorge

Philmatic said:


> Pricing went live... here we go...


Huh???


----------



## rick123

This is definitely not thread related, but since I posted here I was following. The new upgrade offer for current owners is 99.00 for the Premiere with either 14.99 a month or 399.00 for lifetime. The old lifetime offer was $470 for Premiere and life. 

Up $30 bucks total. I'll wait for next generation I think.


----------



## machpost

14.8 was rolled out to RCN beta testers a few days ago and multi-room streaming was mentioned as one of the upcoming features with this release.


----------



## innocentfreak

rick123 said:


> This is definitely not thread related, but since I posted here I was following. The new upgrade offer for current owners is 99.00 for the Premiere with either 14.99 a month or 399.00 for lifetime. The old lifetime offer was $470 for Premiere and life.
> 
> Up $30 bucks total. I'll wait for next generation I think.


It is up $30 since it is just the Multi-Service Discount as it states when you click the upgrade link.

If you buy from Amazon you can get pretty close to the last upgrade price which was a better deal than previous upgrades. My original upgrade offers were $299 + $199 or the same price you can get now.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

curiousgeorge said:


> Picture of one of the targeted TiVo emails asking users to pump up a positive amazon review:
> 
> http://twitpic.com/4zfbv3
> 
> Actual Amazon Review referenced in the above email:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/RX8LUH...36OR910&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful


Wow. Just wow.

Edit: According to the review author, Tivo asked her to write it. And now they're trying to pump it up. Weak.


----------



## curiousgeorge

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> Edit: According to the review author, Tivo asked her to write it. And now they're trying to pump it up. Weak.


Where did she say TiVo asked her to write it?

Edit: Nevermind. Found it on page 2 of the comments for the review -

"Joanne Patterson says:
I was not asked to review the TIVO for Amazon.* TIVO asked me to review it for them*. If they wish to post my review on Amazon, I have no problem with that. "


----------



## shaun-ohio

yep i got the new software upgrade also.


----------



## Dan203

Is anyone else having problems with sound in 14.8? I got it a couple days ago and I've noticed that ever since every time I start to play a program I get a little pop out of my speakers. Also when playing an analog recording the sound effects when FFing are messed up. The first sound is OK, the second one is a pop and then I get nothing for the 3rd. If I do it slowly and allow a few seconds between presses then they all play, but if I do it at normal speed I get the sound mentioned above.

Dan


----------



## TerpBE

curiousgeorge said:


> Picture of one of the targeted TiVo emails asking users to pump up a positive amazon review:
> 
> http://twitpic.com/4zfbv3
> 
> Actual Amazon Review referenced in the above email:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/review/RX8LUH...36OR910&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=#wasThisHelpful


I never thick the "helpful" buttons, but I logged on just to click "no" on this one.


----------



## innocentfreak

Dan203 said:


> Is anyone else having problems with sound in 14.8? I got it a couple days ago and I've noticed that ever since every time I start to play a program I get a little pop out of my speakers. Also when playing an analog recording the sound effects when FFing are messed up. The first sound is OK, the second one is a pop and then I get nothing for the 3rd. If I do it slowly and allow a few seconds between presses then they all play, but if I do it at normal speed I get the sound mentioned above.
> 
> Dan


Yeah I noticed this on PyTiVo pushes for me. It didn't do it on recordings. I get sound on all three but each one is slightly higher.


----------



## TWinbrook46636

BigJimOutlaw said:


> Wow. Just wow.
> 
> Edit: According to the review author, Tivo asked her to write it. And now they're trying to pump it up. Weak.


I think the FTC and BBB would be interested in this. :down:


----------



## curiousgeorge

Dan203 said:


> Is anyone else having problems with sound in 14.8? I got it a couple days ago and I've noticed that ever since every time I start to play a program I get a little pop out of my speakers. Also when playing an analog recording the sound effects when FFing are messed up. The first sound is OK, the second one is a pop and then I get nothing for the 3rd. If I do it slowly and allow a few seconds between presses then they all play, but if I do it at normal speed I get the sound mentioned above.
> 
> Dan


Yeah, I'm having this as well. It used to happen VERY infrequently, but I've noticed it MUCH more now (at least once per program).


----------



## Dan203

I can reproduce it consistently. I even rebooted and tried the HDUI just to see if either would fix the problem. Neither one did. I also tried turning off the sound effects and now I just get the pops and clicks when I FF or IR in an analog recording. (programs with AC3 audio do not have this issue)

Dan


----------



## jrtroo

TWinbrook46636 said:


> I think the FTC and BBB would be interested in this. :down:


Big deal- how is this different from any other form of grass roots advertising? It is common practice, like when your car dealership asks for high rankings on their surveys or a vendor who asks you to tell your friends. It is just new for us to see this from TiVo.

My apologies for adding to this on the thread. If anyone cares, this would be better as its own topic instead of a discussion on the new software rolling out.


----------



## curiousgeorge

jrtroo said:


> Big deal- how is this different from any other form of grass roots advertising? It is common practice, like when your car dealership asks for high rankings on their surveys or a vendor who asks you to tell your friends. It is just new for us to see this from TiVo.


It's new because TiVo commissioned (admitted by the user) the glowing review, then asked that it be pumped up. It's one small step from shill reviews.


----------



## KungFuCow

plazman30 said:


> You'll all be singing a different tune when 15.0 comes out...


We wont be watching TV by then. It will be broadcast directly into our brains and be on demand.


----------



## wmcbrine

I got 14.8.U2 last night. In addition to what's already been noted, the fonts are different -- thicker, I think. They look much better here. This is with the SDUI.

Also, the solid red "recording" dot has been replaced with a hollow red circle (like the ones on the front of the Premiere), everywhere, AFAICT. I think this is a step backwards, albeit a minor one -- they're less visible.


----------



## sbq

Dan203 said:


> Is anyone else having problems with sound in 14.8? I got it a couple days ago and I've noticed that ever since every time I start to play a program I get a little pop out of my speakers. Also when playing an analog recording the sound effects when FFing are messed up. The first sound is OK, the second one is a pop and then I get nothing for the 3rd. If I do it slowly and allow a few seconds between presses then they all play, but if I do it at normal speed I get the sound mentioned above.
> 
> Dan


Yeah, this started after I got the 14.8 update. It's never happened before, but it happens frequently now, and about every 20-40 minutes I lose all sound from the tivo to my tuner and I have to restart my tuner. This is assuming I'm actively using FF, REW, or PAUSE, if I just let it play then I don't have any issues with the sound.

I'm guessing this is a new bug with how tivo handles HDMI output. My setup is Cable into tivo, then HDMI from tivo to my tuner, then HDMI from my tuner to the LED HDTV.

Also, the SDUI had been getting very sluggish over the past few months, and after the reboot from 14.8 it seemed faster, but after only a few days the sluggishness is back and even worse now. It's getting to the point where the SDUI is going to be as slow as the HDUI, which I consider unusable.

At this point I'm going to start researching AT&T U-Verse as a replacement for Comcast (I've heard too many horror stories about the Comcast DVR to switch to that). If the U-Verse DVR offers what I want and seems like a reasonably functional DVR then I'll likely switch and give up on the tivo. I've been using a tivo for 10 years, but since switching from a tivo2 to the premiere my experience has been unpleasant to say the least.


----------



## curiousgeorge

sbq said:


> Yeah, this started after I got the 14.8 update. It's never happened before, but it happens frequently now, and about every 20-40 minutes I lose all sound from the tivo to my tuner and I have to restart my tuner. This is assuming I'm actively using FF, REW, or PAUSE, if I just let it play then I don't have any issues with the sound.
> 
> I'm guessing this is a new bug with how tivo handles HDMI output. My setup is Cable into tivo, then HDMI from tivo to my tuner, then HDMI from my tuner to the LED HDTV.
> 
> Also, the SDUI had been getting very sluggish over the past few months, and after the reboot from 14.8 it seemed faster, but after only a few days the sluggishness is back and even worse now. It's getting to the point where the SDUI is going to be as slow as the HDUI, which I consider unusable.
> 
> At this point I'm going to start researching AT&T U-Verse as a replacement for Comcast (I've heard too many horror stories about the Comcast DVR to switch to that). If the U-Verse DVR offers what I want and seems like a reasonably functional DVR then I'll likely switch and give up on the tivo. I've been using a tivo for 10 years, but since switching from a tivo2 to the premiere my experience has been unpleasant to say the least.


I strongly recommend you post something about this to @tivodesign twitter feed. If enough people do it, there won't be anywhere to hide. Right now negative truthful posts just disappear from the scream after a day or so. If the twitter stream matches the mountain of problems with the Premiere, they can't delete them all...


----------



## TVCricket

If TiVo gives us the ability to stream what's on our Premieres to an iPad, I will be so happy. This would such an awesome feature.


----------



## BigJimOutlaw

I noticed this morning that with 14.8, my Pytivo transfers are now skipping audio for the first 5 seconds or so of playback. Fortunately it corrects itself (so far), but that's kind of annoying.

It happens at any point I begin to view it -- whether from the beginning or from a paused location (after exiting the video and returning to it).

These are videos that were there and working fine before 14.8. Haven't tried any new transfers yet.


----------



## crxssi

TVCricket said:


> If TiVo gives us the ability to stream what's on our Premieres to an iPad, I will be so happy. This would such an awesome feature.


Nowhere near as awesome as streaming to Android tablets would be  But don't hold your breath. Read the previous parts of the thread about streaming only native formats...


----------



## slowbiscuit

jrtroo said:


> Big deal- how is this different from any other form of grass roots advertising? It is common practice, like when your car dealership asks for high rankings on their surveys or a vendor who asks you to tell your friends. It is just new for us to see this from TiVo.


It's called Astroturfing, and it's marketing at its worst. It also smacks of desperation, because if the product didn't have these issues you wouldn't need to do it.


----------



## innocentfreak

I got the same sound effect issue tonight after playing a youtube video. It was fine as soon as I went back to a recording.


----------



## jeff92k7

sbq said:


> At this point I'm going to start researching AT&T U-Verse as a replacement for Comcast (I've heard too many horror stories about the Comcast DVR to switch to that). If the U-Verse DVR offers what I want and seems like a reasonably functional DVR then I'll likely switch and give up on the tivo. I've been using a tivo for 10 years, but since switching from a tivo2 to the premiere my experience has been unpleasant to say the least.


Don't hold your breath on uverse being much better. They have their own issues. I just left them to come back to Tivo about a month ago.

Even if you can overlook their absolutely horrible HD picture quality, and very basic DVR, you'll find that there are still other random problems....

Like audio dropouts occaisionally when the DVR is set to output surround sound (get used to stereo only).

...And the DVR completely missing recordings regularly. When you notice this and tell it to record a program manually, it will tell you it's already sceduled to record and won't let you schedule it again - even though it's not recording it. This can usually be fixed by a reboot. It got to where we had to reboot about once a week to fix the missed recording issue...and that was just for the recordings we noticed.

I had uverse for about a year and hoped that I wouldn't have any of the issues that people complained about on the uverse forums. Unfortunately, I wasn't that lucky. I tolerated it for a while, then came back to tivo. Tivo, with all of it's problems, is still the best DVR available, by far.

Jeff


----------



## jcthorne

TVCricket said:


> If TiVo gives us the ability to stream what's on our Premieres to an iPad, I will be so happy. This would such an awesome feature.


I can stream tivo to my android based EVO now. Been doing this for nearly a year.

Sling works fine and has for years. And is only mpeg2 guys. For most mobile devices, a downrezed SD stream is sufficient and is what Sling has been using for years. With the proper software, the Premiere can indeed do this on the fly. IE recode stored HD material to SD mpeg2 stream on the fly. The encoding chip is there and currently used for recording analog tv input. And it can handle 2 streams at a time.

An h264 stream would be better sure, but its not in the current chipset.


----------



## jjd416

Dan203 said:


> Is anyone else having problems with sound in 14.8? I got it a couple days ago and I've noticed that ever since every time I start to play a program I get a little pop out of my speakers. Also when playing an analog recording the sound effects when FFing are messed up. The first sound is OK, the second one is a pop and then I get nothing for the 3rd. If I do it slowly and allow a few seconds between presses then they all play, but if I do it at normal speed I get the sound mentioned above.
> 
> Dan


I do not have 14.8 yet, but my speakers make a "popping" noise too. I thought it was a problem with my Yamaha Receiver. I have two Premieres. One goes through a receiver via a HDMI cable and the other Premiere goes directly to my TV via a HDMI cable. Only the Premiere hooked up to my receiver makes "popping" noises.


----------



## smbaker

curiousgeorge said:


> Picture of one of the targeted TiVo emails asking users to pump up a positive amazon review:


Ouch! That's really nasty. Does amazon permit such things? If it were me, I'd disqualify reviews that were being skewed by the manufacturer like this. It delegitimizes their entire review system.

I guess they have the resources to hire a programmer to write PHP to spam people about reviews. Too bad that guy couldn't have been tasked to actually improve the product, like converting a SDUI screen or two over to HDUI.


----------



## innocentfreak

smbaker said:


> Ouch! That's really nasty. Does amazon permit such things? If it were me, I'd disqualify reviews that were being skewed by the manufacturer like this. It delegitimizes their entire review system.


Yeah Amazon allows it. This is why you see reviews before products are even available and positive reviews from the Amazon vine reviewers since they got the product for free to review it.

I never count on reviews and only give them a glance. If you do read reviews, based off Amazon, the major problem with TiVo is Amazon doesn't list the subscription requirements and pricing.


----------



## davezatz

jcthorne said:


> Sling works fine and has for years. And is only mpeg2 guys. For most mobile devices, a downrezed SD stream is sufficient and is what Sling has been using for years.


Older Slingboxes/clients encode WMV on the fly, while newer hardware+newer clients can encode as H.264. Not sure if they're doing that on Android yet, but on iOS they are. What Sling is doing is different than what TiVo is doing. TiVo captures the cableco's uncompressed digital MPEG2 stream, whereas Sling basically scrapes the analog video output.


----------



## davezatz

innocentfreak said:


> This is why you see reviews before products are even available and positive reviews from the Amazon vine reviewers since they got the product for free to review it. I never count on reviews and only give them a glance.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of Amazon reviews. They should only allow, or at least let us filter, reviews from folks who've actually purchased the item in question from them. That'd help a lot.


----------



## Dan203

I always look at the negative reviews of a product. If they're about the unit being DOA, shipping problems, etc... I ignore them. But if they're about a usability problem or units dying after a few weeks/months of use then I reconsider the product. I never really pay attention to the positive reviews.

Dan


----------



## curiousgeorge

smbaker said:


> Ouch! That's really nasty. Does amazon permit such things? If it were me, I'd disqualify reviews that were being skewed by the manufacturer like this. It delegitimizes their entire review system.
> 
> I guess they have the resources to hire a programmer to write PHP to spam people about reviews. Too bad that guy couldn't have been tasked to actually improve the product, like converting a SDUI screen or two over to HDUI.


They've lost 1/2 a star on the product rating because of 1 and 2 star reviews added since this came to light. A few days ago it was 4.5 stars, now it shows 4 star, and the 3-2-1 star reviews are growing faster than the 5 star. The whole thing may backfire on them.


----------



## aaronwt

1 star? I'm guessing if you could rate the cable company DVRs then they would be a negatve star.

The Premiere is by no means a 5 star device but on the flip side it isn't a 1 star device either.


----------



## jcthorne

davezatz said:


> Older Slingboxes/clients encode WMV on the fly, while newer hardware+newer clients can encode as H.264. Not sure if they're doing that on Android yet, but on iOS they are. What Sling is doing is different than what TiVo is doing. TiVo captures the cableco's uncompressed digital MPEG2 stream, whereas Sling basically scrapes the analog video output.


I get that but the cableco mpeg2 stream is way to high a bandwidth to permit streaming. It would have to be downsampled. My point was that for use outside of the home network, what Sling is already doing is just as good as what tivo MIGHT do. Did not know the newer sling boxes are encoding to h.264 video streams. Might be worth upgrading just to get better video qualtiy for the available upstream bandwidth. Android phone with rev 2.1 and newer OS can handle h.264 video so there would be no reason for sling not to use it if they can encode to that on the fly. The current Tivo Premiere cannot do that.


----------



## sbiller

are reporting that 14.8 HDUI is more responsive. Any feedback from the TCF community?

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25859469-To-my-HDUI-Testers.-Your-getting-new-software-soon-


----------



## smbaker

aaronwt said:


> The Premiere is by no means a 5 star device but on the flip side it isn't a 1 star device either.


They've lost a lot of credibility by failing to complete the device, issuing no significant updates in the first year of ownership, and playing games with the pricing. It's not surprising people are giving it 1-star reviews. You just can't treat your flagship product and customers the way Tivo does and expect to keep your reputation intact.

I don't doubt the cableco DVRs would receive even worse reviews... but, we all know we don't like the cablecos. We're shelling out additional money for an enhanced product. Bad behavior of one doesn't excuse bad behavior of the other.

Tivo went from being the "Best" to the "Least Bad" DVR. While those descriptions may be equivalent, perception is everything. I'm much rather be the "best" then the "least bad".


----------



## crxssi

jcthorne said:


> I can stream tivo to my android based EVO now. Been doing this for nearly a year.


No, you can stream a TiVo analog output using a third party box to your Android based Evo. That is not the same as his suggestion, which would be to stream directly from the TiVo, without using a third-party box.



> With the proper software, the Premiere can indeed do this on the fly. IE recode stored HD material to SD mpeg2 stream on the fly. The encoding chip is there and currently used for recording analog tv input. And it can handle 2 streams at a time.


You don't know that at all. The encoding chip is a dedicated piece of hardware to digitize analog SD and store it digitally. That is not AT ALL the same thing as transcoding digital HD streams. It is very unlikely the current Premiere has the ability to transcode at all, much less in REAL TIME, and it certainly cannot be done in software on the main CPU in real time... and in non-real-time, it would probably take many, many hours,on this type of CPU to transcode a single hour of 1080 video.


----------



## curiousgeorge

sbiller said:


> are reporting that 14.8 HDUI is more responsive. Any feedback from the TCF community?
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25859469-To-my-HDUI-Testers.-Your-getting-new-software-soon-


Seems about the same to me, except that the discovery bar populates in one go instead of one icon at a time. It seems to wait until it has all or most of the icons cached before displaying the whole bar instead of the ad-hoc way before. Everything else is still unacceptably sluggish in the HDUI.

But the SOUND bugs of the new version are REALLY annoying. One one of our three Premieres with it, the second and third bloop on FF has disappeared. On the other two we're getting the audio pops.


----------



## curiousgeorge

aaronwt said:


> 1 star? I'm guessing if you could rate the cable company DVRs then they would be a negatve star.
> 
> The Premiere is by no means a 5 star device but on the flip side it isn't a 1 star device either.


I'm pretty sure the 1's are just to "rightsize" the glowing 5 star TiVo's been pimping. It's working toward moving Premiere toward a "true" rating it would have without interference, probably 3-4 stars.


----------



## innocentfreak

sbiller said:


> are reporting that 14.8 HDUI is more responsive. Any feedback from the TCF community?
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25859469-To-my-HDUI-Testers.-Your-getting-new-software-soon-


I think they got a few updates rolled into one, since I don't think they got 14.7.

It seems the same to me but I never have had any real issues.


----------



## StevesWeb

sbiller said:


> are reporting that 14.8 HDUI is more responsive. Any feedback from the TCF community?
> 
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r25859469-To-my-HDUI-Testers.-Your-getting-new-software-soon-


I just got home from a 4 day trip to find 14.8 on my TiVo Premiere XL. It is immediately and clearly noticeable that the response to remote control input is much faster.

The minor changes in the SD UI are nice too.


----------



## tivogurl

At this point I think the HDUI isn't getting faster because it can't. I don't know whether it's the hardware or Adobe's usual bloated software, but my bet is that hardware Flash acceleration doesn't work. I think they're working on a replacement, and have been from practically the moment they shipped the first Premiere. They might even have ripped out the Flash framework altogether. I'd certainly feel cheated by Adobe. Did anybody else get suckered into doing a Flash UI?

Now, if they aren't going to at least finish the UI I would have liked to have seen some longstanding scheduling and conflict resolution bugs get fixed, and some of the longstanding enhancement requests to things like Wishlists and Season Passes get implemented. It makes me wonder if they're _afraid_ to touch that code. I've seen that phenomenon before, where companies won't dare touch what's effectively legacy code because they fear breaking it and the original engineers are long gone.


----------



## jcthorne

crxssi said:


> You don't know that at all. The encoding chip is a dedicated piece of hardware to digitize analog SD and store it digitally. That is not AT ALL the same thing as transcoding digital HD streams. It is very unlikely the current Premiere has the ability to transcode at all, much less in REAL TIME, and it certainly cannot be done in software on the main CPU in real time... and in non-real-time, it would probably take many, many hours,on this type of CPU to transcode a single hour of 1080 video.


I already said too much but will sum it up with yes, the premiere CAN downsample an hd stream to sd and encode it to mpeg2 on the fly with software updates. It cannot recode anything to h264 as there is no hardware to do so.


----------



## jcthorne

crxssi said:


> No, you can stream a TiVo analog output using a third party box to your Android based Evo. That is not the same as his suggestion, which would be to stream directly from the TiVo, without using a third-party box.


My point was the net effect was EXACTLY the same other than the approx $100 cost of the sling device.


----------



## morac

tivogurl said:


> At this point I think the HDUI isn't getting faster because it can't. I don't know whether it's the hardware or Adobe's usual bloated software, but my bet is that hardware Flash acceleration doesn't work. I think they're working on a replacement, and have been from practically the moment they shipped the first Premiere. They might even have ripped out the Flash framework altogether. I'd certainly feel cheated by Adobe. Did anybody else get suckered into doing a Flash UI?


I don't think the problem is Flash since the basic menus draw nearly instantly. The problem is loading all the other data from the network which is used to fill in the discovery bar and right panel on the My Shows screen. Basically any time you see a green circle, it's not a Flash performance issue, but an I/O one.


----------



## slowbiscuit

tivogurl said:


> I think they're working on a replacement, and have been from practically the moment they shipped the first Premiere. They might even have ripped out the Flash framework altogether.


What in the world makes you think that??


----------



## L David Matheny

morac said:


> I don't think the problem is Flash since the basic menus draw nearly instantly. The problem is loading all the other data from the network which is used to fill in the discovery bar and right panel on the My Shows screen. Basically any time you see a green circle, it's not a Flash performance issue, but an I/O one.


But Flash is what's doing the I/O. Displaying stuff from the Internet, especially optional eye candy, needs to be done asynchronously so that it doesn't hinder display of the important data that the user actually requested. That would require multithreading of software tasks, and apparently Flash is not capable of real multithreading. I believe there is a rumor that the upcoming TiVo software release will allow us to turn off display of the downloaded eye candy, and that would be a good workaround until Flash supports multithreading (if ever).


----------



## morac

L David Matheny said:


> But Flash is what's doing the I/O. Displaying stuff from the Internet, especially optional eye candy, needs to be done asynchronously so that it doesn't hinder display of the important data that the user actually requested. That would require multithreading of software tasks, and apparently Flash is not capable of real multithreading. I believe there is a rumor that the upcoming TiVo software release will allow us to turn off display of the downloaded eye candy, and that would be a good workaround until Flash supports multithreading (if ever).


It might support multithreading, but with the limited processing power of the CPU and the fact (?) that the 2nd core on the CPU still isn't enabled and multithreaded processing wouldn't improve performance much (especially if there are is a lot of resource locking).

If Flash processing is really being done in hardware I don't see how the sluggishness of the GUI could be flash related. Normally where Flash suffers is when video decoding is involved, but that's not the case here.

I think it's the software itself. For example, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to go to My Shows and just start paging down as fast as I want. The only reason I can't do that is that the is some kind of synchronous lock preventing the user from paging down until all the programs load on the screen. Things like that and the complete failure of most GUI functionality when there is no network connection can't be blamed on Flash.


----------



## crxssi

jcthorne said:


> I already said too much


Hmm..... interesting.... subtle and yet, "I got it".



> but will sum it up with yes, the premiere CAN downsample an hd stream to sd and encode it to mpeg2 on the fly with software updates. It cannot recode anything to h264 as there is no hardware to do so.


Waiting to see...


----------



## crxssi

morac said:


> I think it's the software itself. For example, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to go to My Shows and just start paging down as fast as I want. The only reason I can't do that is that the is some kind of synchronous lock preventing the user from paging down until all the programs load on the screen. Things like that and the complete failure of most GUI functionality when there is no network connection can't be blamed on Flash.


Agreed....


----------



## L David Matheny

morac said:


> If Flash processing is really being done in hardware I don't see how the sluggishness of the GUI could be flash related. Normally where Flash suffers is when video decoding is involved, but that's not the case here.


Is Flash implemented in hardware? It might use some hardware video acceleration, but surely most of Flash is firmware/software.



morac said:


> I think it's the software itself. For example, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to go to My Shows and just start paging down as fast as I want. *The only reason I can't do that is that the is some kind of synchronous lock preventing the user from paging down until all the programs load on the screen.* Things like that and the complete failure of most GUI functionality when there is no network connection can't be blamed on Flash.


I think your complaint that I've highlighted is a perfect indication of lack of multithreading. Loading of eye candy and paging down should be separate threads that run asynchronously, with the user-requested action (paging down) having priority in determining what actually makes it to the screen. Poor performance could be due to sloppy programming by TiVo, but the consensus seems to be that Flash just can't do asynchronous multithreading.


----------



## morac

L David Matheny said:


> I think your complaint that I've highlighted is a perfect indication of lack of multithreading. Loading of eye candy and paging down should be separate threads that run asynchronously, with the user-requested action (paging down) having priority in determining what actually makes it to the screen. Poor performance could be due to sloppy programming by TiVo, but the consensus seems to be that Flash just can't do asynchronous multithreading.


I'll point out that locking of any kind is really only needed if there is multithread. It's to prevent multiple threads from reading/writing the same data at the same time. So if locking is occurring it would actually be proof of multithreading (not lack thereof).

On a side note, normally a GUI itself (the display part) is single threaded, it's the background processing (network, server, etc) that runs in separate threads. If the TiVo software was single threaded it wouldn't be able to spin the green circle on the screen while doing other processing in the background.


----------



## williamsca

I have the 14.8 update and want to give TiVo kudos on one change I noticed...

If you bring up the guide and find a program you want to record, it now does it all as an overlay. Previously it would take you away from what you were watching to bounce through the recording options, but no longer. :up:


----------



## aaronwt

williamsca said:


> I have the 14.8 update and want to give TiVo kudos on one change I noticed...
> 
> If you bring up the guide and find a program you want to record, it now does it all as an overlay. Previously it would take you away from what you were watching to bounce through the recording options, but no longer. :up:


It did the same thing before. Unless you selected "season pass and other options".

And still when you select "season pass and other options", it takes you to another page.

But if you just record with no modifications it's just the overlay, just like before.


----------



## innocentfreak

Just for info since I just thought to look it up to compare, not that it means anything to us.

14.7 was 
Flash Player: 14-7-mr/2010.11.30.1605
HD Menu Software Version: 1-7/2010.12.03-1712

14.8
Flash Player: 14-8-mr/2011.02.24-0601
HD Menu Software Version: 1-8/2011.04.08-1413


----------



## aaronwt

innocentfreak said:


> Just for info since I just thought to look it up to compare, not that it means anything to us.
> 
> 14.7 was
> Flash Player: 14-7-mr/2010.11.30.1605
> HD Menu Software Version: 1-7/2010.12.03-1712
> 
> 14.8
> Flash Player: 14-8-mr/2011.02.24-0601
> HD Menu Software Version: 1-8/2011.04.08-1413


At least it's a newer version.

I see they also show the amount of free disk space(in HD and Sd hours) on the Sys Info screen now. I'm still hoping they flip the switch for Hulu+ and other goodies this coming week.


----------



## TheWGP

innocentfreak said:


> Just for info since I just thought to look it up to compare, not that it means anything to us.
> 
> 14.7 was
> Flash Player: 14-7-mr/2010.11.30.1605
> HD Menu Software Version: 1-7/2010.12.03-1712
> 
> 14.8
> Flash Player: 14-8-mr/2011.02.24-0601
> HD Menu Software Version: 1-8/2011.04.08-1413


Interesting... if I'm reading that right, the 14.7 release HD menu build was dated December 3 - and the limited rollout started on December 8, I think.

In this case, for 14.8, the HD menu build was done for a month and a half before the limited rollout started.

It also looks like the Flash build date was all the way back at the end of February for 14.8 - whereas 14.7's date was only a few days before the HD menu date.

What does this mean? Well, I don't know - but what it says to me is that the Flash portion of the release (which may depend to some extent on Adobe, it's hard to say) was done at the end of February, and the HD Menu updates were done at beginning to mid April.

Thus, the question in my mind is what else Tivo has been working on between beginning-mid April and now with this limited rollout of 14.8? I'm sure there are perfectly good reasons - but this MIGHT give SOME credence to the idea that the update was meant to be released quicker, but was held up by some unknown reason. This seems to fit in with the idea that they did not intend to wait 8 months to release Hulu Plus after announcement... after all, even the beginning Marketing 101 student can tell you that's a Bad Idea. So, assuming something currently unknown was delaying it, I would guess Tivo originally meant to have this update out in March or April along with Hulu Plus. Perhaps the 1-year-anniversary of the Premiere was their original target - and realistically, in many software development situations delays are inevitable.

Nothing concrete, but I'd say those build dates are an interesting bit of data for the overall picture.


----------



## upatoi15

curiousgeorge, couldn't agree more with your post. I haven't even gotten the update yet , and I can already see your point of view (lol). These bugs are unacceptable and ridiculous. Don't worry, Google TV will soon take over so no big deal for me. For now, I'm going back to my cable company's HD-DVR. At least with them , 1) I don't have to pay a ridiculous monthly fee and 2) I can get PPV. The Video on Demand feature (Amazon, Netflix, etc.) is available on so many other devices also so I'm good. 

See ya Tivo, you blew your chance with me!


----------



## innocentfreak

upatoi15 said:


> curiousgeorge, couldn't agree more with your post. I haven't even gotten the update yet , and I can already see your point of view (lol). These bugs are unacceptable and ridiculous. Don't worry, Google TV will soon take over so no big deal for me. For now, I'm going back to my cable company's HD-DVR. At least with them , 1) I don't have to pay a ridiculous monthly fee and 2) I can get PPV. The Video on Demand feature (Amazon, Netflix, etc.) is available on so many other devices also so I'm good.
> 
> See ya Tivo, you blew your chance with me!


Man I can't wait to record my shows on google tv...oh wait.


----------



## Phantom Gremlin

Dan203 said:


> *I always look at the negative reviews of a product.*


As do I. The negative reviews are invariably much more useful than the positive ones.


----------



## morac

Phantom Gremlin said:


> As do I. The negative reviews are invariably much more useful than the positive ones.


I actually find the opposite to be true. People have a tendency to post negative reviews if they have a problem, but most people don't post positive reviews if everything works. As such there's bound to be a lot more negative reviews than positive. I find most negative reviews to be baseless.

I look at the overall review numbers as well as reviews that are actually reviewing the product, rather than just baselessly praising or damning it.


----------



## jkudlacz

crxssi said:


> If you don't have any problems at all, consider yourself very fortunate and be happy.
> 
> If you don't understand why people are complaining who *DO* have problems, and there are many of them (including me), then you must be crazy or something.


I hope you realize that HD menus issue relates to the fact that only part of menus can ran in HD, rest still utilizes SD menus which at this point is just silly. All you need is new templates without changing their functionality.

Unless issue is much more complicated and FLASH is limiting this conversion.


----------



## jkudlacz

Wait WHAT you don't have to pay a monthly fee with your CABLE company?

Your cable company charges you for the BOX and then again for DVR functionality. In total it comes to around $16-18 dollars a month.

I have a LIFETIME service with my TIVO. Box pays for itself within 2.5 years and then each and every box after that is FREE. Why because you can sell your old box on eBay for $400-$500 and buy new one from TIVO with lifetime for $400 because they offer special discounted upgrade pricing for loyal customers.

TIVO is always a better option, problem is lately their better option is only slightly better.


----------



## curiousgeorge

jkudlacz said:


> I hope you realize that HD menus issue relates to the fact that only part of menus can ran in HD, rest still utilizes SD menus which at this point is just silly. All you need is new templates without changing their functionality.
> 
> Unless issue is much more complicated and FLASH is limiting this conversion.


Much as I also want this and there are no excuses why we don't have it, it's good to note that the conversion is not straight 1:1. The way some stuff from the SD menus works in the HDUI is different out of necessity or for improved functionality. They would have to do a *little* more than remap templates, but it's not so laborious that it would prevent them from farting out at least a few more HDUI sections in the last 14 months. They've done none that I'm aware of, hence my avatar.


----------



## sabixx

does anyone know if the problems with queue limits in netflix have been fixed in this release? I havn't received it yet.


----------



## L David Matheny

curiousgeorge said:


> Much as I also want this and there are no excuses why we don't have it, it's good to note that the conversion is not straight 1:1. The way some stuff from the SD menus works in the HDUI is different out of necessity or for improved functionality. They would have to do a *little* more than remap templates, but it's not so laborious that it would prevent them from farting out at least a few more HDUI sections in the last 14 months. They've done none that I'm aware of, hence my avatar.


He may have been referring to the fact that TiVo could accomplish one small goal by just converting the remaining SD menus in the HDUI to HD resolution even without putting any new info on the screen: They would avoid the annoying resolution change that occurs unless you force your TiVo to show you everything at one fixed resolution. And that's one small issue that I don't think we can blame on Flash. Actually, I would like the option of seeing HD resolution without including any new eye candy, ads, etc.


----------



## TheWGP

L David Matheny said:


> Actually, I would like the option of seeing HD resolution without including any new eye candy, ads, etc.


I agree - sure it would be nice to have fully polished HD and so on, but the HD to SD switch is so jarring to go back and forth through so I'd take just about any improvement at this point.


----------



## sabixx

its funny,you buy a tivo to help get rid of ads, and then they force you to look at ads every time you use it.


----------



## Philmatic

Engadget review of Hulu+ suggest that it's already live on TiVo Premieres.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/23/hulu-plus-on-tivo-premiere-hands-on/


----------



## curiousgeorge

Philmatic said:


> Engadget review of Hulu+ suggest that it's already live on TiVo Premieres.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/23/hulu-plus-on-tivo-premiere-hands-on/


Seems to be. Yoiu can sign up for it on Tivo.com, and it takes you to the signup page at hulu.


----------



## DancnDude

TiVo's blog post today says Hulu+ is "Available today".


----------



## aaronwt

sabixx said:


> its funny,you buy a tivo to help get rid of ads, and then they force you to look at ads every time you use it.


Where are these ads I'm forced to watch? I used my TiVos at least ten hours this weekend and did not notice any advertising.


----------



## kathpdx

moyekj said:


> Very interesting, the NowPlaying XML for this 14.8 software (which can be obtained as example URL below with tivo as login and 10 digit MAK as password) contains a new XML field under field for each show I've not seen before:
> <StreamingPermission>No</StreamingPermission>
> 
> Currently it is set to *No* for all my shows, but certainly makes one wonder what happens if it is set to Yes.
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> https://192.168.10.199/TiVoConnect?Command=QueryContainer&Container=%2FNowPlaying&Recurse=Yes


Is this something we have to manually go and retrieve or will the update happen OTA??
ANY update to my Premiere is a slim possibility that it will cease being the hated element in my living room.


----------



## KCcardsfan

DancnDude said:


> TiVo's blog post today says Hulu+ is "Available today".


I called and they said it is not available yet. I told them their blog says it was. They said keep a close eye it will be coming soon. If I was them I would wait until it was actually live before putting it out there.


----------



## sabixx

aaronwt said:


> Where are these ads I'm forced to watch? I used my TiVos at least ten hours this weekend and did not notice any advertising.


sorry I forgot to put ' if you want the full, promised experience that you paid for'.

I keep forgetting that other people on this board are happy to have incomplete software and SD resolution menus on HD screens.


----------



## innocentfreak

sabixx said:


> sorry I forgot to put ' if you want the full, promised experience that you paid for'.
> 
> I keep forgetting that other people on this board are happy to have incomplete software and SD resolution menus on HD screens.


I still don't know what ads you are being forced to watch.

I also don't see the SD screens which is maybe why they don't bother me. I turn on the TV and go to My Shows and pick a show to play. I manage, add, and delete season passes from the iPad app or on TiVo.com. I push recordings via PyTiVo while I am watching something else. The only screen I see in SD is if I go into the transfer screen.


----------



## curiousgeorge

innocentfreak said:


> I still don't know what ads you are being forced to watch.
> 
> I also don't see the SD screens which is maybe why they don't bother me. I turn on the TV and go to My Shows and pick a show to play. I manage, add, and delete season passes from the iPad app or on TiVo.com. I push recordings via PyTiVo while I am watching something else. The only screen I see in SD is if I go into the transfer screen.


Transfer screen, ALL system settings menus, wishlist saved searches, todo list, season pass manager, recording history, manual record, messages, showcases, netflix, youtube, etc, etc.

About 40% of the HDUI is not there in HD format, and that's an estimate generous to TiVo.


----------



## innocentfreak

curiousgeorge said:


> Transfer screen, ALL system settings menus, wishlist saved searches, todo list, season pass manager, recording history, manual record, messages, showcases, netflix, youtube, etc, etc.
> 
> About 40% of the HDUI is not there in HD format, and that's an estimate generous to TiVo.


Yes I understand those are not in HD.

My point is I never see those screens. On the rare time I check the To Do list, it is via the iPad or TiVo.com so I can check all my TiVos in one place. The same goes for the season pass manager. I don't use wishlists or showcases. For Netflix I access via TiVo Search.

It all boils down to usage. If you constantly use SD screens I could see potentially how it would bother you. I don't so they don't bother me.


----------



## Dan203

I check the To Do list a lot so the switch from the HD to SD screens is very jarring to me. It also just bugs me to know that such a big percentage of the menus still aren't converted. The Premiere has been out for over a year now, they couldn't get someone to convert the SD UI screens to HD in that time? It seems TiVo is focusing way to much of it's time and energy on making deals and suing E* and allowing their core product fall to the wayside.

To be honest if I didn't already have lifetime on all my TiVos, and a year left on my 2 year contract with Charter, I'd be considering DirecTV or Dish right now. The only thing I'd really miss is TiVoToGo, and I don't find that I use that nearly as much as I use to. The poor selection of HD via cable and the bugs on TiVo are starting to soil the whole experience for me.

Dan


----------



## donnoh

Could someone explain to me the excitement over Hulu+?

As far as I can determine Hulu gives you access to regularly scheduled over the air programs. If you have a Tivo why would you ever need it?


----------



## rahnbo

aaronwt said:


> Where are these ads I'm forced to watch? I used my TiVos at least ten hours this weekend and did not notice any advertising.


Must be nice. I see ads all the time. Not full on 30 second ads but static ones in the Discovery Bar, in folders, on the main menu, etc there is always some kind of ad for new cars, antihistamines, plus more and I've even been tricked in to viewing full ads for movies currently in theaters as they were disguised to look like a movie that was available to record in the discovery bar.


----------



## innocentfreak

rahnbo said:


> Must be nice. I see ads all the time. Not full on 30 second ads but static ones in the Discovery Bar, in folders, on the main menu, etc there is always some kind of ad for new cars, antihistamines, plus more and I've even been tricked in to viewing full ads for movies currently in theaters as they were disguised to look like a movie that was available to record in the discovery bar.


I must say I don't notice them either, but then when I sit down to watch TV I usually know what I want to watch or otherwise browse My Shows. I don't even glance at the discovery bar which is one of the reasons I have always wished I could turn it off or at least customize it more than what we can do now.


----------



## shorties

donnoh said:


> Could someone explain to me the excitement over Hulu+?
> 
> As far as I can determine Hulu gives you access to regularly scheduled over the air programs. If you have a Tivo why would you ever need it?


A good example is in situations with recording conflicts. Such as on monday nights I like to watch Chuck, How I Met Your Mother, and House. All of those shows are on at 8 so I have to record two and catch the other one later somehow. With Hulu Plus I can get them all on my TiVo without having to make Sophies choice. It sure is nice of TiVo to finally give us Hulu plus just as soon as all the television seasons ended


----------



## wemetzger

As far as I care, there could be fat hairy chicks licking a popsicle while riding a mule in the discovery bar. The fact that I have actually found one or two new season passes there, is just an added bonus, but a bonus I dont really care that much about. But of all things Tivo can do/ or cant do, this is the least of my worries.


Lets all complain about something important, like the font they use. If they just used courier font, the spacing would be much better, it would load so much faster. I feel like the font they use now is just used as an advertisement towards the cooler looking fonts. And then I heard some fonts are delivered in SD, and some are delivered in HD. Why cant tivo get it together and deliver all the fonts in HD? Yes, the exact same information would be displayed on the screen with little to no extra benefit, but then I could stop complaining about Tivo having an unfinished UI.

Thats all folks, rant is over


----------



## sbq

so am I the only person who has the sound go completely away with this 14.8 update? I've played around in the menu's and found that there's a Dolby option, and a Dolby to PCM option (I was using the PCM option). My tuner has the full Dolby treatment so I'm going to try switching to the Dolby option and see if that helps.


----------



## rahnbo

innocentfreak said:


> I must say I don't notice them either, but then when I sit down to watch TV I usually know what I want to watch or otherwise browse My Shows. I don't even glance at the discovery bar which is one of the reasons I have always wished I could turn it off or at least customize it more than what we can do now.


I'm not just talking about the discovery bar but other place as well. Sometimes they also stick ads in the list of programs within a folder. I like to page down/channel down to get to the oldest program in a folder first but end up on an ad instead of a program. Sometimes when I page down I do land on the right show but due to lag or whatever the ad pops up in the list and resets the highlighted show back to the top of the list. So then you have to page down again then go up one. It's a major annoyance caused by the presence of ads.


----------



## aaronwt

Hmm. While I have 14.8 on all five of my Premieres, none of them have Hulu+ yet.


----------



## innocentfreak

http://twitter.com/#!/TiVo/status/72745805668302848

From @TiVo


> Hi All, In relation to Hulu Plus, we r rolling the app out beginning today. If u don't currently see it u should w/in the next few days.


----------



## aaronwt

I rebooted all my boxes and now Hulu+ shows up on two of them.


----------



## WillH

Ummmmm, maybe we DON'T want the HDUI finished so that all the pages are in HD menu structure. We would then have to live with the stupid, slow discovery bar in EVERY menu page in HDUI. At least now, we have some of the pages without the discovery bar and the resultant speedy response.

What they need to do is make it so the customer/user/client can turn OFF the discovery bar. There must be some good reason why the UI remains unfinished. They might even have contractual agreements with the advertisers who are shown on the discovery bar. Removing the discovery bar or having the ability to turn it off may cost them some revenue and/or risk some contract dispute with the advertisers. And adding even more pages with the discovery bar may open up yet more contractual obligations and issues. If they would lose the discovery bar or give me the option to turn it off, I would probably be pretty content with the box the way it is. I think the HDUI would then be pretty fast and responsive.


----------



## rdodolak

WillH said:


> Ummmmm, maybe we DON'T want the HDUI finished so that all the pages are in HD menu structure. We would then have to live with the stupid, slow discovery bar in EVERY menu page in HDUI. At least now, we have some of the pages without the discovery bar and the resultant speedy response.


Some users DO want a full HDUI instead of a hybrid option. Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't there already an option for a full SDUI? Having both a finished HDUI along with a SDUI option gives the users a customized choice.



WillH said:


> What they need to do is make it so the customer/user/client can turn OFF the discovery bar. *There must be some good reason why the UI remains unfinished.* They might even have contractual agreements with the advertisers who are shown on the discovery bar. Removing the discovery bar or having the ability to turn it off may cost them some revenue and/or risk some contract dispute with the advertisers. And adding even more pages with the discovery bar may open up yet more contractual obligations and issues. If they would lose the discovery bar or give me the option to turn it off, I would probably be pretty content with the box the way it is. I think the HDUI would then be pretty fast and responsive.


The same thing could be said about the discovery bar. I agree it would be nice if the user had the option to turn off the discovery bar. You can currently customize the discovery bar options; you just can't turn it off at the moment.


----------



## curiousgeorge

rahnbo said:


> Must be nice. I see ads all the time. Not full on 30 second ads but static ones in the Discovery Bar, in folders, on the main menu, etc there is always some kind of ad for new cars, antihistamines, plus more and I've even been tricked in to viewing full ads for movies currently in theaters as they were disguised to look like a movie that was available to record in the discovery bar.


Do you have them turned to "less" in system settings? I see very few ads in the discovery bar, but I have everything except recommendations turned to "Less" in the settings.


----------



## TerpBE

Is there any good reason the Tivo can't cache the discovery bar images in the background while you're doing other stuff (like watching a show)? Why not save 10-20 of the images on the hard drive, and show them in the discovery bar? If somebody decides to explore it beyond what's saved, THEN it can go online to grab more information. It seems like that would make the menus load MUCH faster.


----------



## PedjaR

rdodolak said:


> ...
> The same thing could be said about the discovery bar. I agree it would be nice if the user had the option to turn off the discovery bar. You can currently customize the discovery bar options; you just can't turn it off at the moment.


What would be really useful is not just turning off the discovery bar, but also, when it is off, using that space, at least in My Shows screen; that would be extra 3-4 lines.


----------



## WillH

rdodolak said:


> Some users DO want a full HDUI instead of a hybrid option. Correct me if I'm mistaken but isn't there already an option for a full SDUI? Having both a finished HDUI along with a SDUI option gives the users a customized choice.


You missed my point.

I have been saying since day 1 that the HDUI seems unfinished especially with all the submenus still being in SD. I was being a little sarcastic in saying that we might be better off with the HDUI the way it is now with the faster SD submenus. If they ever do get around to "finishing" the HDUI, and their idea of "finishing" is to make all the submenu pages like the main HDUI page, we may not like it as well. Especially if they include the discovery bar on all those submenu pages. If you use the HDUI now (like I do), I can't imagine how much more frustrating it would be to have to deal with the discovery bar on ALL the HD pages and submenus.


----------



## rdodolak

WillH said:


> You missed my point.
> 
> I have been saying since day 1 that the HDUI seems unfinished especially with all the submenus still being in SD. I was being a little sarcastic in saying that we might be better off with the HDUI the way it is now with the faster SD submenus. If they ever do get around to "finishing" the HDUI, and their idea of "finishing" is to make all the submenu pages like the main HDUI page, we may not like it as well. Especially if they include the discovery bar on all those submenu pages. If you use the HDUI now (like I do), I can't imagine how much more frustrating it would be to have to deal with the discovery bar on ALL the HD pages and submenus.


Sorry, guess I missed the sarcasm. 

I agree that there is no reason to have the discovery bar on every page; especially on the system settings and other setup pages.


----------



## sbq

aaronwt said:


> Hmm. While I have 14.8 on all five of my Premieres, none of them have Hulu+ yet.


if you're using SD menu's it's under Showcases & Extras.


----------



## L David Matheny

TerpBE said:


> Is there any good reason the Tivo can't cache the discovery bar images in the background while you're doing other stuff (like watching a show)? Why not save 10-20 of the images on the hard drive, and show them in the discovery bar? If somebody decides to explore it beyond what's saved, THEN it can go online to grab more information. It seems like that would make the menus load MUCH faster.


That would seem to make a lot more sense than what they're doing now.


----------



## easymacbb

So is there anything I can do to actually get the 14.8 update, or do I just have to wait? It seems like everyone has it but me.


----------



## ducker

TerpBE said:


> Is there any good reason the Tivo can't cache the discovery bar images in the background while you're doing other stuff (like watching a show)? Why not save 10-20 of the images on the hard drive, and show them in the discovery bar? If somebody decides to explore it beyond what's saved, THEN it can go online to grab more information. It seems like that would make the menus load MUCH faster.


++ :up:
seems like a no-brainer to me


----------



## innocentfreak

easymacbb said:


> So is there anything I can do to actually get the 14.8 update, or do I just have to wait? It seems like everyone has it but me.


Just wait. They said it would take a couple of days for everyone to get it. It tends to roll out in batches.


----------



## sabixx

easymacbb said:


> So is there anything I can do to actually get the 14.8 update, or do I just have to wait? It seems like everyone has it but me.


Im still without it too, hopefully by the end of the week everybody is updated.


----------



## rrr22777

Other then the better graphics what is new in this release? I have a XL which got the update last week.


----------



## curiousgeorge

rrr22777 said:


> Other then the better graphics what is new in this release? I have a XL which got the update last week.


Remote deletion, hulu+, bitter tears placeholding all the stuff that ISN'T fixed.


----------



## DonB.

An issue I have been getting since the release is every now and then I hit the Tivo button and the Tivo animations comes on,what is that all about, anyway of turning that off, is there a reason this is happening.


----------



## sabixx

just now got the update by forcing a connection 6 or 7 times in a row, anyone still without it Id recommend just making it connect as many times as possible.


----------



## danterner

DonB. said:


> An issue I have been getting since the release is every now and then I hit the Tivo button and the Tivo animations comes on,what is that all about, anyway of turning that off, is there a reason this is happening.


Any chance you use a passcode with KidZone, and the final digit of the code is 0?

The Tivo button + 0 plays the animation. Hit one right after the other close enough together, and you'll inadvertently play the animation following entry of your code. That used to happen to me occasionally. Drove me batty until I finally figured out what was happening...


----------



## Johnwashere

sabixx said:


> just now got the update by forcing a connection 6 or 7 times in a row, anyone still without it Id recommend just making it connect as many times as possible.


 Forced connections many times yesterday and didn't get it. Today's normal connection around 2pm got it. Forcing a restart now  start up logo is darker then normal! Looks better already


----------



## sabixx

hopefully you get Hulu right away, its still not showing up on mine even with the update.

the look is definitely a cleaner look,I agree.


----------



## rdodolak

sabixx said:


> just now got the update by forcing a connection 6 or 7 times in a row, anyone still without it Id recommend just making it connect as many times as possible.


Forced a connection 50-60 times today with no luck. It appears there is no relation to forcing a connection and getting the software update.


----------



## Philmatic

rdodolak said:


> Forced a connection 50-60 times today with no luck. It appears there is no relation to forcing a connection and getting the software update.


It's been said dozens of times over the past 10 years that forcing updates repeatedly will NOT result in getting your update quicker. You'll get it once TiVo flags your TSN to receive it, not a second before. The only way you could even perceive to receive it quicker than you would normally, is because they flagged your TSN for the update in-between your two scheduled daily calls and you forced a call before your next scheduled one.

THAT'S IT.

Did you really force 50-60 calls today? Or are you exaggerating or accidentally added a zero to your range?


----------



## sabixx

Tivo reps have repeatedly told me that you should force a connection to get updates, so they're the ones spreading that myth.


----------



## LoREvanescence

sabixx said:


> Tivo reps have repeatedly told me that you should force a connection to get updates, so they're the ones spreading that myth.


that is true if it's a brand new box.

but yeah, looks like they opened it to the masses, I just got it by forcing the connection


----------



## aaronwt

curiousgeorge said:


> Remote deletion, hulu+, bitter tears placeholding all the stuff that ISN'T fixed.


What is bitter tears placeholding?


----------



## steinbch

TiVo automatically connected this morning at 11:30 with no update. Just forced connection now and got the update.


----------



## Philmatic

aaronwt said:


> What is bitter tears placeholding?


He means with the exception of remote deletion and Hulu+, all the other stuff we've been complaining about not being fixed are placeholders in future updates.


----------



## steinbch

Also...is it just me or did the startup screen change, too? I don't remember the bottom half of the screen being that color blue.


----------



## sabixx

startup screen definitely changed


----------



## rdodolak

Philmatic said:


> It's been said dozens of times over the past 10 years that forcing updates repeatedly will NOT result in getting your update quicker. You'll get it once TiVo flags your TSN to receive it, not a second before. The only way you could even perceive to receive it quicker than you would normally, is because they flagged your TSN for the update in-between your two scheduled daily calls and you forced a call before your next scheduled one.
> 
> THAT'S IT.
> 
> Did you really force 50-60 calls today? Or are you exaggerating or accidentally added a zero to your range?


What are you so angry about?

I've seen some state it took 12-30 refreshes for the update to show up. Here's another post that mentioned forcing updates.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8535983#post8535983

It really shouldn't take 4 days to roll out updates to all customers. And if TiVo architecture can't handle a mass rollout then TiVo shouldn't have announced Hulu Plus until they ensured ALL subscribers had 14.8 installed on their boxes.


----------



## LoREvanescence

sabixx said:


> startup screen definitely changed


that's the first thing I noticed, the top have changed, but the bottom half changed even more, itl a darker blue and like beveled.

the check marks on the season passes and force a connection screen changed too.

I'm forcing a connection after installing 14.8, and the thing has been taking a half hour, long time on the downloading, and even longer on the loading info.

Wonder if it's downloading hulu stuff or something else, way to long to be a guide data download, even if it's downloading everything again.


----------



## Philmatic

rdodolak said:


> What are you so angry about?
> 
> I've seen some state it took 12-30 refreshes for the update to show up. Here's another post that mentioned forcing updates.
> 
> http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8535983#post8535983


You're assuming it was the 30th connection that triggered the update versus it being a coincidence that they had allowed that particular TSN to update between the 29th and 30th connection.


rdodolak said:


> It really shouldn't take 4 days to roll out updates to all customers. And if TiVo architecture can't handle a mass rollout then TiVo shouldn't have announced Hulu Plus until they ensured ALL subscribers had 14.8 installed on their boxes.


I don't pretend to know more about rolling out a multi-hundred megabyte to tens of thousands (or hundreds, thousands, millions, who knows?) of boxes than TiVo. It can be extremely complicated to load balance that many connections, not to mention they most likely staggered the initial deployment to see if there were rollout issues with the build that caused huge issues like bricking or constant restarts (it's happened before). Releasing it to a small subset of users is a good way to gauge any issues.

*BUT*, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the second point, they should NOT have announced availability of Hulu+ until 14.8 was on everyone's boxes. THEN they should have flipped the switch, not flip the switch while a small subset of boxes had it.


----------



## sabixx

Google rolled out a security update to every android device in a matter of 48 hours, and thats WAY more devices with many varying hardwares,Tivo just isn't working hard enough. or is not putting in the effort.


----------



## deepthinker

Forced connection and got 14.8 on one box, but on my third try now on the 2nd and it's still not downloading yet.

Thank God they changed the font used for the SD menus, now it doesn't look all jaggy like it needs anti-aliasing or smoothing. I'd still rather they complete the HDUI, but at least this keeps the change from HDUI to SDUI from being as horrendous. I also noticed that they changed the icons in the To Do List.


----------



## Philmatic

sabixx said:


> Google rolled out a security update to every android device in a matter of 48 hours, and thats WAY more devices with many varying hardwares,Tivo just isn't working hard enough. or is not putting in the effort.


Did they now? Considering the fact that Google can't even push updates to any Android phone unless it's one of three phones they sell directly (Nexus One, Nexus S, Nexus S 4G), I call complete BS. Try again, the "update" you're talking about was server side and didn't involve installing ANY software on actual handsets.

Would you rather have had TiVo open the floodgates from day one and have people complain that the server was being hammered and they were getting errors? Staggered deployments are standard for any wide launch, carriers do them for their OTA Android updates, as does pretty much everyone else, except maybe Microsoft, but they can handle any volume.


----------



## sabixx

look it up,it just happened last week. Google doesn't roll out android version updates OTA because the carriers have to tweak them to include touchwiz,blur and sense, but Google definitely can push security updates.

the issue was mostly server side,yes,but it was not totally, and thus it had to be rolled out to devices.

Id rather Tivo not announce services they dont have,how about that?


----------



## rahnbo

LoREvanescence said:


> I'm forcing a connection after installing 14.8, and the thing has been taking a half hour, long time on the downloading, and even longer on the loading info.
> 
> Wonder if it's downloading hulu stuff or something else, way to long to be a guide data download, even if it's downloading everything again.


I just got a bunch of welcome videos from them like what came stock (welcome to Tivo and all that) plus some new ones like about Pandora for example. Not sure if that downloads with the daily connection or during the early morning infomercial thing but its weird that those videos popped up in the middle of the day after a forced connection.


----------



## Philmatic

sabixx said:


> look it up,it just happened last week. Google doesn't roll out android version updates OTA because the carriers have to tweak them to include touchwiz,blur and sense, but Google definitely can push security updates.
> 
> the issue was mostly server side,yes,but it was not totally, and thus it had to be rolled out to devices.


Oh brother, you look it up:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/18/google-confirms-android-security-issue-server-side-fix-rolling/
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2011/05/18/android-security-issues-patched/
http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...o_plug_Android_Wi_Fi_data_leaks?taxonomyId=75
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/18/google_android_security_fix/

Not a single mention of anything handset related. I really know what I'm talking about man.



sabixx said:


> Id rather Tivo not announce services they dont have,how about that?


I agreed with you previously, so I'm not sure what you want from me.


----------



## deepthinker

rahnbo said:


> I just got a bunch of welcome videos from them like what came stock (welcome to Tivo and all that) plus some new ones like about Pandora for example. Not sure if that downloads with the daily connection or during the early morning infomercial thing but its weird that those videos popped up in the middle of the day after a forced connection.


I noticed the new "TiVo Premiere" recordings on the one box that has taken the load as well. I had 4 of them.


----------



## LoREvanescence

is it me, or has some icons changed on the channel banner too

such as the one that indicates if a program is recording or not, and the other tune icon


----------



## deepthinker

LoREvanescence said:


> is it me, or has some icons changed on the channel banner too
> 
> such as the one that indicates if a program is recording or not, and the other tune icon


Not just you, they changed those as well. Just went to the box that has the new load and looked. Still trying to get the other box to take the load. Pretty F'ing hilarious that they have the time to change those icons in the channel banner, along with the ones in the "To Do List", but not enough time to complete the rest of the HDUI.


----------



## sabixx

I don't understand your point in linking those. I said it was server side, but the update still had to be rolled out to devices, and it says that in your links. thats why it took a few days(48 hours) for the fix to get to all devices.


----------



## steinbch

sabixx said:


> I don't understand your point in linking those. I said it was server side, but the update still had to be rolled out to devices, and it says that in your links. thats why it took a few days(48 hours) for the fix to get to all devices.


Didn't really want to get in the middle of this, but I think the update that Google may have sent out would be more along the lines of updated program guide information. In no way was the fix a new version of the android operating system that would warrant a change in version number. Now if all phones were bumped up to a new point release, that would b a different story...but let's not even get started on the variety of releases available for Android phones right now.


----------



## DonB.

I don't use kid zone, and I never had the issue until I got the recent upgrade



danterner said:


> Any chance you use a passcode with KidZone, and the final digit of the code is 0?
> 
> The Tivo button + 0 plays the animation. Hit one right after the other close enough together, and you'll inadvertently play the animation following entry of your code. That used to happen to me occasionally. Drove me batty until I finally figured out what was happening...


----------



## deepthinker

DonB. said:


> I don't use kid zone, and I never had the issue until I got the recent upgrade


When I go to settings and change from HDUI to SDUI or back sometimes it plays the animation. No biggie.


----------



## rainwater

sabixx said:


> Google rolled out a security update to every android device in a matter of 48 hours, and thats WAY more devices with many varying hardwares,Tivo just isn't working hard enough. or is not putting in the effort.


That security update required no changes to software on devices. So if you mean they updated their own servers in 48 hours, then yes, they did. But they certainly didn't do a software update on client devices. The latest android OS release took almost 4 months to roll out to Nexus S users, so don't tell me they know something TiVo doesn't.


----------



## rdodolak

rainwater said:


> That security update required no changes to software on devices. So if you mean they updated their own servers in 48 hours, then yes, they did. But they certainly didn't do a software update on client devices. The latest android OS release took almost 4 months to roll out to Nexus S users, so don't tell me they know something TiVo doesn't.


However, unlike TiVo the android updates aren't installed automatically. Although the user may receive an automatic notification (depends if that feature is turned on or off) the user still has to accept the update before it will download and install.


----------



## wmcbrine

sabixx said:


> Tivo reps have repeatedly told me that you should force a connection to get updates, so they're the ones spreading that myth.


A forced connection can get you an update a few hours early, _if_ you've already been flagged to get the update. The act of connecting does not itself cause you to get flagged, and connecting repeatedly is pointless -- you should at least wait a few hours if you don't get the update after a forced call. Really, you might as well wait until the next day. And if you're going to do _that_, then you might as well let the TiVo do it by itself.

I forced a connection the other day when I read here that people had seen the "tag line" movie descriptions replaced by proper ones. Sure enough, that worked. But I haven't seen anyone say that they have 14.8 (not 14.8.U2) yet, and until someone does, I think it would be pointless to expect any benefit there from a forced call.


----------



## Philmatic

wmcbrine said:


> I forced a connection the other day when I read here that people had seen the "tag line" movie descriptions replaced by proper ones. Sure enough, that worked. But I haven't seen anyone say that they have 14.8 (not 14.8.U2) yet, and until someone does, I think it would be pointless to expect any benefit there from a forced call.


I received *14.8.01-3-746* on both of my TPs, not sure how hat corresponds.


----------



## LoREvanescence

wmcbrine said:


> A forced connection can get you an update a few hours early, _if_ you've already been flagged to get the update. The act of connecting does not itself cause you to get flagged, and connecting repeatedly is pointless -- you should at least wait a few hours if you don't get the update after a forced call. Really, you might as well wait until the next day. And if you're going to do _that_, then you might as well let the TiVo do it by itself.
> 
> I forced a connection the other day when I read here that people had seen the "tag line" movie descriptions replaced by proper ones. Sure enough, that worked. But I haven't seen anyone say that they have 14.8 (not 14.8.U2) yet, and until someone does, I think it would be pointless to expect any benefit there from a forced call.


Mines 14.8, no U. I got it today


----------



## mandms7

I forced a TiVo connection, and when I checked on the status a while later, it showed it was pending a restart. I restarted my TiVo, and now it has been sitting at the "A few minutes more" screen for almost 30 minutes. Is this normal?


----------



## morac

mandms7 said:


> I forced a TiVo connection, and when I checked on the status a while later, it showed it was pending a restart. I restarted my TiVo, and now it has been sitting at the "A few minutes more" screen for almost 30 minutes. Is this normal?


No it's not normal, but it happens sometimes. I'd give it a few hours (or till morning if you don't want to wait up) and if it's still like that pull the plug, wait 15 seconds and plug it back in. It should boot up after that (though it might take a few tries).


----------



## sbq

sbq said:


> so am I the only person who has the sound go completely away with this 14.8 update? I've played around in the menu's and found that there's a Dolby option, and a Dolby to PCM option (I was using the PCM option). My tuner has the full Dolby treatment so I'm going to try switching to the Dolby option and see if that helps.


Trying Dolby on my tuner didn't work, apparently the Dolby output from Tivo isn't compatible with the Dolby technology in my tuner, I just got busted sound that faded in and out. I have tried something else, I've turned off the "sound effects" that you get when you do some sort of a menu action, the bleeps and blips every time you press a menu button. so far I haven't had the sound die out like it had been, but it's still too early to tell if this solves the sound problem.


----------



## Fofer

L David Matheny said:


> But Flash is what's doing the I/O. Displaying stuff from the Internet, especially optional eye candy, needs to be done asynchronously so that it doesn't hinder display of the important data that the user actually requested. That would require multithreading of software tasks, and apparently Flash is not capable of real multithreading. I believe there is a rumor that the upcoming TiVo software release will allow us to turn off display of the downloaded eye candy, and that would be a good workaround until Flash supports multithreading (if ever).


I'd like to have a little chat with whatever executive or engineer it was, that decided the TiVo's _main UI screens_ should have _dynamic content that relied on an Internet connection._

What a bone-headed decision that was. Sheesh. :down:


----------



## Fofer

tivogurl said:


> It makes me wonder if they're _afraid_ to touch that code. I've seen that phenomenon before, where companies won't dare touch what's effectively legacy code because they fear breaking it and the original engineers are long gone.


This seems to be the most likely explanation at this point.


----------



## iceturkee

sabixx said:


> Tivo reps have repeatedly told me that you should force a connection to get updates, so they're the ones spreading that myth.


that's what they told me tuesday to get hulu plus.


----------



## innocentfreak

tivogurl said:


> It makes me wonder if they're _afraid_ to touch that code. I've seen that phenomenon before, where companies won't dare touch what's effectively legacy code because they fear breaking it and the original engineers are long gone.





Fofer said:


> This seems to be the most likely explanation at this point.


TiVo said something along this lines when the Premiere was announced. It wasn't that they were afraid to touch the code, but more how it had been pieced together over the years.

This was one of the reasons why they gave they never added a free space indicator for example like the Premiere had. Every time they would try to add something it would break something else completely unrelated.

I don't remember what interview it was though. It might be the original Molly Woods Cnet interview with Tom Rogers.


----------



## tivoknucklehead

I got 14.8, why am I not seeing Hulu Plus on the menu?


I'll try a reboot or two


----------



## OSXFreak

Got 14.8 and seeing Hulu Plus as well... Think it pushed last night. When I tried to force connect, it told me it was disabled until 2am. So my guess is that they pushed 14.8 at that time. I tried to delete a program from my S2, from my Premiere, but it did not work correctly, it acts like ti deleted entire folder, but never does  Great Update sheesh..


----------



## Fofer

OSXFreak said:


> Got 14.8 and seeing Hulu Plus as well... Think it pushed last night. When I tried to force connect, it told me it was disabled until 2am.


That means your machine had already downloaded it, and was ready to install at the next reboot, which was scheduled to occur automatically on your Premiere at 2 AM. If you'd restarted before that time, 14.8 would have been installed right away.


----------



## Fofer

OSXFreak said:


> I tried to delete a program from my S2, from my Premiere, but it did not work correctly, it acts like ti deleted entire folder, but never does  Great Update sheesh..


Apparently the feature only works Premiere->Premiere. Both machines would need to have the new code to allow for remote deletion. I agree though, it shouldn't show it as being possible at all on a remote S2, then.


----------



## ElGuapo669

tivoknucklehead said:


> I got 14.8, why am I not seeing Hulu Plus on the menu?
> 
> I'll try a reboot or two


Same here, got the 14.8 update, rebooted at least 3 times, still no Hulu Plus...


----------



## jonja

Got 14.8 last night, but also no Hulu Plus. Actually, don't see Amazon anymore either---but I think that is simply because I turned it off (I don't use it) and can't figure out how to turn it back on (one would expect it would be easy).


----------



## deepthinker

Got 14.8 last night on one Premiere, but the other one still hasn't downloaded yet. I tried multiple times last night and again this morning. The one that has the update downloaded it on the first forced connection.


----------



## tivoknucklehead

ElGuapo669 said:


> Same here, got the 14.8 update, rebooted at least 3 times, still no Hulu Plus...


4 reboots and 4 hours later still no Hulu Plus


----------



## Fofer

I have 14.8 but Hulu Plus isn't showing.

I note (and appreciate) the new icons in the SD interface. Nothing new on the HDUI side, I wonder if they've just given up. 

I also note that the 4 "TiVo Premiere Tours" videos have returned to my NP list, even though I deleted them long ago. Their recording date is 5/24 (yesterday) between 1:55 and 2:03 PM... even though my 14.8 download/install didn't occur till about 11 PM.


----------



## morac

tivoknucklehead said:


> 4 reboots and 4 hours later still no Hulu Plus


That's because rebooting doesn't magically make a network application appear. It needs to be enabled on TiVo's side and then activated by a service connection.


----------



## Fofer

So first you need to be put in the queue to receive 14.8... and then you need to be put in a queue to receive access to Hulu Plus?


----------



## LoREvanescence

Fofer said:


> So first you need to be put in the queue to receive 14.8... and then you need to be put in a queue to receive access to Hulu Plus?


pretty much, that seems to be how it's working


----------



## rdodolak

Still no 14.8 update on my boxes ... continues to wait.


----------



## jcthorne

My Premiere just got 14.8. 

Did anyone else notice the new menu option "Download Manager" Or has it been there all along and I never saw it?


----------



## tre74

Woke up to 14.8. Noticed nothing new. Restarted, "Almost there.....". So, still nothing. Kinda makes sense since restarting is not equal to prompting connection to service. So, I'll try that now. "Loading info...." The suspense is killing me. I need a life!


----------



## Dr_Diablo

14.8-01-3-746 hit my box this morning


----------



## orangeboy

jcthorne said:


> My Premiere just got 14.8.
> 
> Did anyone else notice the new menu option "Download Manager" Or has it been there all along and I never saw it?


I don't think I've ever noticed it before. I only have my "One True Media" channel listed.


----------



## LoREvanescence

orangeboy said:


> I don't think I've ever noticed it before. I only have my "One True Media" channel listed.


it's always been there, it's for season passes to web videos


----------



## TerpBE

mandms7 said:


> I forced a TiVo connection, and when I checked on the status a while later, it showed it was pending a restart. I restarted my TiVo, and now it has been sitting at the "A few minutes more" screen for almost 30 minutes. Is this normal?


If you're using a slide remote, pull the dongle and reboot. Plug it back in once it's up and running. Sometimes Tivo doesn't boot if the bluetooth dongle is plugged in.

If you're not using a slide remote...well, I guess you could also "pull the dongle" while you wait for it to boot up.


----------



## Fofer

LoREvanescence said:


> it's always been there, it's for season passes to web videos


But only in the HDUI, right? It's nowhere to be found in the SDUI?

<sheesh>


----------



## Fofer

mandms7 said:


> I forced a TiVo connection, and when I checked on the status a while later, it showed it was pending a restart. I restarted my TiVo, and now it has been sitting at the "A few minutes more" screen for almost 30 minutes. Is this normal?


Similar issue here (and I do have a BT Slide remote.) I pulled the plug after about 40 minutes of waiting... and then plugged it back in. This time the TiVo booted properly. Phew. I was nervous there for awhile.


----------



## WillH

What do a few reboots, hangs, crashes and slow responses hurt....Just another day in the life of a Tivo Premiere owner.

Sometimes I feel like I'm living with Windows for Workgroups 3.whatever.:down:


----------



## windsurfdog

TerpBE said:


> If you're not using a slide remote...well, I guess you could also "pull the dongle" while you wait for it to boot up.


Now that's funny...I don't care who you are...


----------



## rdodolak

rdodolak said:


> Still no 14.8 update on my boxes ... continues to wait.


The update finally showed up this afternoon and the HDUI does seem a bit more responsive than with 14.7.


----------



## Frank_H

I got my update today also. No Hulu yet.


----------



## sirfergy

Too bad I now get the 10s audio drop out when switching from Live TV to the Home screen with this update.


----------



## bensonr2

I got 14.8 last evening but did not get Hulu Plus until just now. I tried restarting (which I had already tried earlier today) and then when it came back up I had Hulu Plus available. The funny thing is it did not show pending restart before I restarted.


----------



## WillH

Not sure but the fonts seem fuzzy and dim in the guide and in the SDUI pages - I'm using the HDUI. The main page fonts seem sharp and clear but something has changed with the other fonts. 14.8U2


----------



## innocentfreak

I wonder if TiVo released a new version of the slide firmware and that is why the issues with reboots if the dongle is plugged in. 

Of course without patch notes or documentation we have no idea. It could have just choked on the install.


----------



## bsmith1051

rdodolak said:


> The update finally showed up this afternoon and the HDUI does seem a bit more responsive than with 14.7.


Are you sure that's not just because of the fresh boot? You may have had a low-memory condition before.


----------



## rdodolak

bsmith1051 said:


> Are you sure that's not just because of the fresh boot? You may have had a low-memory condition before.


Don't know why my TiVo would have a low-memory condition. Who knows maybe it's just the placebo effect and I just think it's a tad faster when it really isn't. The transition between HD and SD menus also appeared to be better but then again we really don't know what TiVo changed.


----------



## NYHeel

By the way I don't think Hulu plus has anything to do with the software update since I now have Hulu plus but I'm still on 14.7. I also had 4 of those TiVo tours downloaded again. I do have a pending restart so I'll have the software after I reboot but right now I'm still on 14.7.


----------



## Philmatic

And Hulu+ is WORKING on 14.7? I think you're the only person to claim that they have Hulu+ on 14.7.


----------



## NYHeel

Philmatic said:


> And Hulu+ is WORKING on 14.7? I think you're the only person to claim that they have Hulu+ on 14.7.


Well I don't have an account but it was letting me go ahead and set it up.


----------



## mandms7

TerpBE said:


> If you're using a slide remote, pull the dongle and reboot. Plug it back in once it's up and running. Sometimes Tivo doesn't boot if the bluetooth dongle is plugged in.
> 
> If you're not using a slide remote...well, I guess you could also "pull the dongle" while you wait for it to boot up.


I ended up pulling the power cord as it never got passed the "almost there" screen. I do have the slide remote but missed out on pulling the dongle. I'll have to ask the wife to do that...


----------



## cheese toast

I got the update and Hulu+. I use the SD menus and have to wonder why they put Hulu under the Music, Photos, & Showcases menu instead of the Video on Demand menu.


----------



## sabixx

I dont know why it doesn't show up on the bottom of the list with Netflix. it does in the HDUI,but not in the SD :-/


----------



## ElGuapo669

Hulu Plus finally showed up this morning, after getting the 14.8 update yesterday.

Watching Family Guy in 3.2Mbps HD as I type this!


----------



## jcthorne

3.2Mbps is NOT HD. It may be in an HD resolution but that is HIGHLY compressed. Much worse that original broadcast quality. And Hulo wants us to pay for this?

At least Amazon and Netflix have full bandwidth HD dispite the other flaws.


----------



## wireman121

With 14.8 I have lost audio output completely. Called
Tech support they said it's a known issue with DD output and I need to switch to PCM until it's fixed. Thanks for breaking my TIVo.


----------



## aaronwt

jcthorne said:


> 3.2Mbps is NOT HD. It may be in an HD resolution but that is HIGHLY compressed. Much worse that original broadcast quality. And Hulo wants us to pay for this?
> 
> At least Amazon and Netflix have full bandwidth HD dispite the other flaws.


So what is full bandwidth 720P HD from netflix, 5mb/s? Still much lower bandwidth than the original 720P broadcast.


----------



## rainwater

jcthorne said:


> 3.2Mbps is NOT HD. It may be in an HD resolution but that is HIGHLY compressed. Much worse that original broadcast quality. And Hulo wants us to pay for this?


Broadcasts are done in MPEG-2. My guess is Hulu is using MPEG-4 which is much more efficient and doesn't require the same bandwidth for the same quality. Is it broadcast quality? It's highly doubtful, but you can't compare it by the amount of bandwidth used since it is encoded differently.


----------



## ElGuapo669

rainwater said:


> Broadcasts are done in MPEG-2. My guess is Hulu is using MPEG-4 which is much more efficient and doesn't require the same bandwidth for the same quality. Is it broadcast quality? It's highly doubtful, but you can't compare it by the amount of bandwidth used since it is encoded differently.


:up:


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## Philmatic

rainwater said:


> Broadcasts are done in MPEG-2. My guess is Hulu is using MPEG-4 which is much more efficient and doesn't require the same bandwidth for the same quality. Is it broadcast quality? It's highly doubtful, but you can't compare it by the amount of bandwidth used since it is encoded differently.


Agreed, 6mbps H.264 1080p looks superb, so I would say 3-4mbps for 720p is just fine.


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## Slope

I received 14.8 on both of my Premiere's last night. I have rebooted both of them.

My question is, I thought I read somewhere that 14.8 would allow streaming from one Premiere to another. Did I misunderstand that? I can remote delete, but it will only let me transfer the shows from one Premiere to another. I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Thanks.


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## Philmatic

Slope said:


> I received 14.8 on both of my Premiere's last night. I have rebooted both of them.
> 
> My question is, I thought I read somewhere that 14.8 would allow streaming from one Premiere to another. Did I misunderstand that? I can remote delete, but it will only let me transfer the shows from one Premiere to another. I just wanted to make sure I'm not missing anything.
> 
> Thanks.


The code technically is there, because the TiVo API now lists a "streaming" parameter, but it's not clear what "streaming" in this context means.

It could mean TiVo to TiVo streaming, it could mean iPad streaming, it could mean TiVo to PC streaming, it could mean NOTHING.

An RCN project manager for their TiVo group mentioned that "TiVo to TiVo" streaming is including in 14.8, but that line was suspiciously removed from the post on 5/20.

So anyone claiming to know anything is lying.


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## sabixx

I don't know if its real HD or not, but ive been watching Modern Family the last few days on Hulu Plus and the picture quality has been outstanding. better than I usually get on Netflix HD streams.

I probably won't renew after the free trial still though,the selection is too limited.


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## TVCricket

jcthorne said:


> 3.2Mbps is NOT HD. It may be in an HD resolution but that is HIGHLY compressed. Much worse that original broadcast quality. And Hulo wants us to pay for this?
> 
> At least Amazon and Netflix have full bandwidth HD dispite the other flaws.


Totally agree. Having to pay for tv shows AND watch ads is my sticking point. I'm not that hard up for older seasons of tv shows. I'll stick to my OTA for my must watch shows on Season Pass and Netflix the others on DVD and Watch Instantly.


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## sabixx

Hulu is run by the networks I believe,so its hard to imagine them getting rid of the ads,but I completely agree. why any person would pay for this service is beyond me. you don't even get access to regular Hulu,seems like a waste of money to me.

not to mention the ads are in SD,look terrible and are the same 10 ads over and over and over again.


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## aaronwt

sabixx said:


> Hulu is run by the networks I believe,so its hard to imagine them getting rid of the ads,but I completely agree. why any person would pay for this service is beyond me. you don't even get access to regular Hulu,seems like a waste of money to me.
> 
> not to mention the ads are in SD,look terrible and are the same 10 ads over and over and over again.


It's another option to watch content from. No source has everything. To have the most most content to choose from you need access to multiple services. Hulu+, Netflix, and VUDU are three online services that compliment each other.

I use all three on a regular basis in addition to my TiVo recordings and Blu-ray Disc movies.


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## jackie moon

wireman121 said:


> With 14.8 I have lost audio output completely. Called
> Tech support they said it's a known issue with DD output and I need to switch to PCM until it's fixed. Thanks for breaking my TIVo.


Same thing happened to me but only for SD shows but switching to pcm did not fix it. I now have to switch from using composite cables to watch sd with sound and hdmi for hd. When I called tech support they said there was not fix and there was nothing they could do. Also said it was a known issue but for everyone else switching to pcm worked. Said a fix with come out sometime but that is all the info they could give me. Worked fine yesterday.  Great update.


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## sabixx

aaronwt said:


> It's another option to watch content from. No source has everything. To have the most most content to choose from you need access to multiple services. Hulu+, Netflix, and VUDU are three online services that compliment each other.
> 
> I use all three on a regular basis in addition to my TiVo recordings and Blu-ray Disc movies.


its hard to justify Hulu at the same price as Netflix though when Netflix is much better. once you burn through past-catalogs on hulu plus of the few shows that interest you,what is there left to watch? wouldn't you just season-pass anything else at that point? the back-catalogs are not very deep either. only season 2 of modern family is there,nothing from season 1. not Hating on Hulu or anything but it needs much work.


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## rdodolak

sabixx said:


> its hard to justify Hulu at the same price as Netflix though when Netflix is much better. once you burn through past-catalogs on hulu plus of the few shows that interest you,what is there left to watch? wouldn't you just season-pass anything else at that point? the back-catalogs are not very deep either. only season 2 of modern family is there,nothing from season 1. not Hating on Hulu or anything but it needs much work.


I would agree and the Hulu catalog appears to be lacking at the moment. One of the drawbacks I recently noticed is that Hulu doesn't have licensing rights to make a lot of the content, which is available on it's web site, available on TVs and other streaming devices (just available on PCs).


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## moyekj

rdodolak said:


> I would agree and the Hulu catalog appears to be lacking at the moment. One of the drawbacks I recently noticed is that Hulu doesn't have licensing rights to make a lot of the content, which is available on it's web site, available on TVs and other streaming devices (just available on PCs).


 That is the problem. As Hulu has stated their Hulu content has different licensing than Hulu+. As it is Hulu+ is really Hulu- since it's a subset of what Hulu has (only the programs that have streaming to non-PC devices included), and that makes it worthless to me. Even if some day they can re-negotiate to allow streaming of all Hulu content there are still the ads to contend with in Hulu+. So compared to Netflix where monthly fee gets you ad-free streaming, Hulu+ just doesn't add any value to me and I have no interest even in free trial.


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## Fofer

rdodolak said:


> I would agree and the Hulu catalog appears to be lacking at the moment. One of the drawbacks I recently noticed is that Hulu doesn't have licensing rights to make a lot of the content, which is available on it's web site, available on TVs and other streaming devices (just available on PCs).


That part is infuriating. I mean, it's called HULU PLUS. It should have everything that's on Hulu.com, PLUS more. Yes, I'm pretty sure there is some stuff that's on Hulu Plus that is not on regular Hulu, but if I can watch something on Hulu I should be able to reasonably expect it to be on Hulu Plus too. I realize this is the copyright holder's decision, and not necessarily Hulu's fault, but it's disappointing and confusing.

That these companies make such a huge difference between Hulu Plus on a set top device or tablet... and Hulu.com on my laptop (which I can just as easily plug into my TV via HDMI) is annoying.


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## morac

moyekj said:


> That is the problem. As Hulu has stated their Hulu content has different licensing than Hulu+. As it is Hulu+ is really Hulu- since it's a subset of what Hulu has (only the programs that have streaming to non-PC devices included), and that makes it worthless to me. Even if some day they can re-negotiate to allow streaming of all Hulu content there are still the ads to contend with in Hulu+. So compared to Netflix where monthly fee gets you ad-free streaming, Hulu+ just doesn't add any value to me and I have no interest even in free trial.


What's ridiculous about the whole thing is that the different licensing for "web only" shows makes no sense. Hook a laptop up to a TV and watch that way, sure go ahead :up:. Do the same thing with a TiVo or PS3, no way :down:. Watch Hulu on a laptop at WiFi hotspot, good :up:. Try to do the same thing on an iPad, bad :down:.

It makes absolutely no sense.


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## sabixx

yep, its completely silly. they're making a distinction where there is no difference. a ps3 is a pc,a 360 is a pc.

not to mention, content is far less likley to be pirated from a locked-down device like a ps3 or 360 then it is a pc, so what exactly is even the point?

I could even accept them locking out just mobile devices, even though that is stupid too, but locking down boxes that sit at your house is just dumb. I dont know if this is Hulus fault, or if its a problem with the networks,but its terrible.


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## Fofer

It's the networks' fault. Hulu would LOVE to have the rights to make all of this available to interested viewers. Their hands are tied by the rights holders. Which is ironic because Hulu is the brainchild of the networks themselves. It's a company that's caught between two contrasting business models.... and it ends up with a bit of a split personality as a result. Here's some good reading on what Hulu's dealing with:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/140/the-unlikely-mogul.html

Their early struggle with Boxxee, for example, is detailed in there.


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## crxssi

TVCricket said:


> Totally agree. Having to pay for tv shows AND watch ads is my sticking point.


I couldn't agree more. Being FORCED to watch ads????? I think not! One of the major reasons we use a DVR.... I can stop FF and watch any ad I want to (and often do), but I'll be damned if some machine is going to force me to... and charge me money for the privilege!

And no support for non-plus on top of that? It is just a total, epic FAIL, and I can't imagine why anyone would be interested in the whole thing. It is a non-feature. NOW PLEASE UPDATE THE FREAKING NETFLIX INTERFACE ON THE PREMIERE!!!


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## JACKASTOR

ilkevinli said:


> Today I noticed my software was updated to 14.8. They changed the highlighted color and the icons to any networked Tivos. Thats all I have noticed so far


Got my update yesterday after installing my cable card here in canada!

Had to cold reboot but its fine


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## WillH

crxssi said:


> I couldn't agree more. Being FORCED to watch ads????? I think not! One of the major reasons we use a DVR.... I can stop FF and watch any ad I want to (and often do), but I'll be damned if some machine is going to force me to... and charge me money for the privilege!


Agree with this 100% - Hence the total contradiction of the Tivo discovery bar having ads that we are forced to watch and seemingly delay the performance and enjoyment of a device that is advertised and intended to allow users to SKIP through ads and commercials. Total breakdown in logic to me that Tivo would do such a thing in the first place, much less continue to force it down our throats after a year now.


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## L David Matheny

WillH said:


> Agree with this 100% - Hence the total contradiction of the Tivo discovery bar having ads that we are forced to watch and seemingly delay the performance and enjoyment of a device that is advertised and intended to allow users to SKIP through ads and commercials. Total breakdown in logic to me that Tivo would do such a thing in the first place, much less continue to force it down our throats after a year now.


The discovery bar ads would be tolerable if they were loaded asynchronously so that they didn't slow down the important stuff. You could just ignore them. I haven't used Hulu, but as I understand it those ads are indeed intolerable since you have no choice but to wait them out. For many of us, that's just not going to happen.


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## sabixx

L David Matheny said:


> The discovery bar ads would be tolerable if they were loaded asynchronously so that they didn't slow down the important stuff. You could just ignore them. I haven't used Hulu, but as I understand it those ads are indeed intolerable since you have no choice but to wait them out. For many of us, that's just not going to happen.


I wouldn't call the ads in hulu intolerable,theres only a few per episode, which would be perfectly fine for a free service. the payment would be your eyeballs on their ads. having to pay AND watch the ads, thats just ridiculous.


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## tivoknucklehead

Hulu finally showed up. Vid quality is very good


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## UConnHuskyTx

I also had Hulu show up yesterday. Funny thing though...I'm still on 14.7.


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## Fofer

From another thread:



TiVoJerry said:


> The mapping of software and Hulu plus are independent of eachother yet related. Boxes are mapped to receive software but it takes a separate service connection following the SW update to confirm you have 14.8, at which point we map Hulu.
> 
> *To speed things up, we have tried to forego the confirmation of installation and started mapping Hulu at the same time, which means some customers may see Hulu while still running 14.7. The functionality should work but there are fixes in 14.8 that will make the experience better. *
> 
> Bottom line: everyone should have Hulu on their Premiere box by tomorrow.
> 
> Troubleshooting tips (hmm, these are below the aforementioned "bottom line" ) in order of preference:
> - Make sure you are looking for the Hulu Plus launch point under Find TV, movies, & videos
> - Make sure Hulu Plus is checked in your Video Provider list (Settings & messages --> Settings --> Channels --> Video Provider List)
> - Try accessing the SDUI to see the Hulu Plus launch point (under Music, Photos & Showcases). This also serves to reset the HDUI.
> - Manually make an additional 2 connections to the TiVo Service
> - Restarting should be the last resort


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## sbq

sbq said:


> Trying Dolby on my tuner didn't work, apparently the Dolby output from Tivo isn't compatible with the Dolby technology in my tuner, I just got busted sound that faded in and out. I have tried something else, I've turned off the "sound effects" that you get when you do some sort of a menu action, the bleeps and blips every time you press a menu button. so far I haven't had the sound die out like it had been, but it's still too early to tell if this solves the sound problem.


nope, that didn't work, I'm still losing sound on the tivo every once in awhile, and it seems to be happening more frequently.


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## aaronwt

Fofer said:


> That part is infuriating. I mean, it's called HULU PLUS. It should have everything that's on Hulu.com, PLUS more. Yes, I'm pretty sure there is some stuff that's on Hulu Plus that is not on regular Hulu, but if I can watch something on Hulu I should be able to reasonably expect it to be on Hulu Plus too. I realize this is the copyright holder's decision, and not necessarily Hulu's fault, but it's disappointing and confusing.
> 
> That these companies make such a huge difference between Hulu Plus on a set top device or tablet... and Hulu.com on my laptop (which I can just as easily plug into my TV via HDMI) is annoying.


MAybe the Plus means HD. Since Hulu is only SD while Hulu+ has HD content as well.
Or is there also HD content on Hulu on the PC?

I still only have Hulu+ on two of my Premieres. All my Premieres got 14.8U2 right away, but only two of them got Hulu+ so far.


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## morac

aaronwt said:


> MAybe the Plus means HD. Since Hulu is only SD while Hulu+ has HD content as well.
> Or is there also HD content on Hulu on the PC?


I'm pretty sure HD is available on the PC.


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## rdodolak

morac said:


> I'm pretty sure HD is available on the PC.


According to Hulu, Hulu is limited to SD and HD (720p) content is only available through Hulu+. However, Hulu+ subscribers can access HD content from the PC too.

Here's Hulu's comparison of the two services:

http://www.hulu.com/plus?from=ie9#compare


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE

i got upgraded last week, still no hulu+.


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## rdodolak

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> i got upgraded last week, still no hulu+.


Select Settings & Messages -> Settings -> Channels -> Video Provider List, does Hulu Plus show up there? If so make sure Hulu Plus is checked.

This worked for my Premiere.


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## LoREvanescence

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> i got upgraded last week, still no hulu+.


same here

And I tried the trick others has mentioned, now amazon, blockbuster and netflix are gone too

All other network connections work, what gives, haha


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## selmore

mandms7 said:


> I forced a TiVo connection, and when I checked on the status a while later, it showed it was pending a restart. I restarted my TiVo, and now it has been sitting at the "A few minutes more" screen for almost 30 minutes. Is this normal?


Mine will never restart when the bluetooth dongle is plugged in. It will just sit there forever on "A few minutes more", but when I take it out there are no issues.


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## Dante101

rdodolak said:


> Select Settings & Messages -> Settings -> Channels -> Video Provider List, does Hulu Plus show up there? If so make sure Hulu Plus is checked.
> 
> This worked for my Premiere.


I don't see Hulu, either. Is it because I don't have an HDTV and can only use the SD Tivo Menu?

I don't have a "video provider list" in the Channels menu, only "Channel List," "Channel Scan" and "Signal Strength" (I'm OTA only).

EDIT: Nevermind, just found it. In the SD menu it's located in the "*Music, Photos & Showcases*" menu...


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## jcthorne

Hulu Plus also shows up in the My Shows list now.


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## Dante101

Maybe it shows up there once you sign up.


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## ItsRounder

Since getting 14.8 my TiVo is rebooting every two days or so. If you haven't gotten it yet I wouldn't be in any hurry.


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## rdodolak

^ For those experiencing issues with 14.8, have you tried having the TiVo reinstall the 14.8 update and/or force a download and reinstall of the OS?


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## crxssi

rdodolak said:


> ^ For those experiencing issues with 14.8, have you tried having the TiVo reinstall the 14.8 update and/or force a download and reinstall of the OS?


???? As far as I am aware, there is no way a user can "force a download and reinstall" an OS, update, or anything else other than guide data.


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## rdodolak

crxssi said:


> ???? As far as I am aware, there is no way a user can "force a download and reinstall" an OS, update, or anything else other than guide data.


Sorry, I was referring to the kickstart codes ... do they not work with the Premieres?

http://www.weaknees.com/tivo-kickstart-codes.php

Specifically, codes 52 and 56.


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## LoREvanescence

since the 14.8 update, atleast once an hour my premiere will display the "hdmi connection not permitted" for like 30 seconds. It happens out of the clear blue when you are just watching the tv and not touching the remote or anything. 

Never had this happen before 14.8


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