# Survivor 12/19/2010 Finale and reunion show



## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

WOOHOO!!!!

I am so glad Fabio won! I am so glad he beat Chase!! 

This has been a very slow to get going season. It wasn't until it got down to the final seven that I got really interested. I am just very glad with how it ended. Going back down to watch more of the reunion show now, but just had to get that out of my system.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

I was all set to be happy with a Fabio win, and then he really acted his age in the final. His gloating attitude was very hard to watch. I bet if he had acted humble he might have gotten more votes.

Why did Sash not get Nay and Purple Kelly's votes? Weren't they a tight alliance, at least until they screwed him by quitting?


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I never thought Fabio was ever gloating. He was just busting at the seams with joy knowing he would've been voted out instead.

I'm glad Sash got no votes and was surprised how many Chase got. I wonder what the breakdown is.


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## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

gossamer88 said:


> I never thought Fabio was ever gloating. He was just busting at the seams with joy knowing he would've been voted out instead.
> 
> I'm glad Sash got no votes and was surprised how many Chase got. I wonder what the breakdown is.


My thoughts also... Fabio all the way, Chase too wishy washy, Sash too 2 faced... with Fabio, what you see is what you get... total honesty. I hated that he hugged Alina first after what she said in tribal, but... that shows Fabios true nature, that he is a good person.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Interesting new rule for "if you quit". I LOL at that one.


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## gossamer88 (Jul 27, 2005)

I wonder what they would've done if one person voted for Sash.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Was the new rule "We can do what we want", and not "They don't get a vote"?

Also, did they say where next season is being filmed? I heard all the stuff about Loser Island, but never heard *where* the season is?


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

astrohip said:


> Was the new rule "We can do what we want", and not "They don't get a vote"?
> 
> Also, did they say where next season is being filmed? I heard all the stuff about Loser Island, but never heard *where* the season is?


I heard it as "we can do what we want - they can be on the jury and vote or not be on the jury".


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## Einselen (Apr 25, 2006)

Going into the final I thought Fabio had it wrapped up, then when Na asked her questions about seeing family if it sparked him to get through the end I thought he locked it up then Chase shocked me with the way he handled Alina's question and actually had a little fight in him, I think that is what gained him a few votes and kept it so close.

Spoiler about next season even though it was talked about in the reunion show someone could have technically tuned out to avoid news about next season so I am going to selectively spoilerize my discussion.



Spoiler



As far as Redemption Island goes I think the idea sounds cool but I have a feeling it will fail in concept but I could be wrong. I just feel the person coming back from Redemption whenever that may be (I would guess Top 5, maybe Top 4) has a huge disadvantage. Not to mention what if this person who is at Redemption Island has been there since almost the beginning? If they can stick in it to the end, which would have to probably be by winning multiple individual immunities, the jury will have very little information on them due to limited exposure and also even the little interactions they have may had can easily be forgotten since they happened so early in the game. The only thing going for that person is outlasting on the island but not sure if that is enough to have outplayed and outwit in the main game. The only way it can really work out is coming back at the merge but that is somewhat early in the game that the whole gimmick is well just that, a gimmick.


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

Einselen said:


> Going into the final I thought Fabio had it wrapped up, then when Na asked her questions about seeing family if it sparked him to get through the end I thought he locked it up then Chase shocked me with the way he handled Alina's question and actually had a little fight in him, I think that is what gained him a few votes and kept it so close.
> 
> Spoiler about next season even though it was talked about in the reunion show someone could have technically tuned out to avoid news about next season so I am going to selectively spoilerize my discussion.
> 
> ...


I don't like it. Once someone is voted out, they should remain out.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

I called it when the jurors filed in at 4 left: they noticed the immunity necklace on Fabio again and most of them were all smiles. He was going to be in the final 3, and he would be getting a lot of votes.

I would have been OK with Chase winning... he did pretty good at the final tribal... better than I was expecting!  I was glad Sash got zippo, sort of a Russell Jr. 

Wikipedia says Redemption Island was filmed in the same place as this season: Nicaragua. And that the Redemption Island twist has already been done in two foreign versions of Survivor.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

I was thrilled Fabio won. I've liked him from the beginning but never thought he'd make it this far. I was surprised Chase got so many votes, and was also surprised that Sash got none. I knew Sash didn't have a chance to win, but I figured he'd get a couple of votes.

Most of the questions posed by the jury were actually pretty decent. Usually it's just a bunch of pissed off people trying to get some revenge, but this time most of the questions were good. I didn't feel like FFing through that section.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Jane won favorite survivor, but I can't believe it was such a landslide that Probst didn't even announce the other finalists. I can't stand Jane and don't understand what everyone else sees in her. Had the game ended several weeks ago, I still thought she was spunky and tenacious. But after the last few episodes, I've found her to be petty and spiteful and since the voting took place over the last couple of days, I'm surprised it was so biased. Also, how stupid did Probst look when he asked her what her salary was? Clearly he was expecting her to say something like $10,000 or $20,000. When she said $50,000, that made him look stupid for asking, and made Jane lose a lot of the sympathy points she had been trying to build. $50k is above average and nothing to shake a stick at.


astrohip said:


> Was the new rule "We can do what we want", and not "They don't get a vote"?


Yes, basically they're putting people on notice that if they "breach their contract" with the show, the show can then do what it wants with that person. If it serves the show's purposes to still allow them to vote (would leave an even number, their quitting wasn't too egregious, etc.) then they have the leeway to do that. But if they do like Na and PK did this season, the producers would be able to kick them off the jury.


astrohip said:


> Also, did they say where next season is being filmed? I heard all the stuff about Loser Island, but never heard *where* the season is?





martinp13 said:


> Wikipedia says Redemption Island was filmed in the same place as this season: Nicaragua.


Yes, I think this is the new thing. They set up camp in one location and then film two seasons back to back in order to save money on production costs.


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

So happy that Fabio pulled it out. Chase was a spineless, paranoid turd who proved in the last few challenges that he simply wasn't the physical and mental equal of Fabio or Sash; I was truly astonished to see the vote that close.

Alina's "I want to give the million to a man, not a boy."   

Sorry to see Jane win Fan Favorite. And Shannon's still a dick. Otherwise, these reunion specials keep getting more and more dull.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Neenahboy said:


> Sorry to see Jane win Fan Favorite. And Shannon's still a dick. Otherwise, these reunion specials keep getting more and more dull.


Agreed. Probst used to go out of his way to make sure he at least asked a question to every player. But lately he's just been completely ignoring certain people in favor of stuff like NaOnka's mom and Terry Bradshaw. We didn't get to hear a single word during the reunion from Benry, Tyrone, Yve, Jill or Purple Kelly. I often wish they'd record a second hour and put it online or something for the true fans. By the time they actually read the votes (about 6 minutes into the live show), then do all the breakdown with the winner and runners up, show commercials, announce next season, announce the favorite, show clips, etc., they only end up with about 6-7 total minutes to spend on the 15 or so people that didn't make it very far, and that's just lame. I want to see the reunion show to see what all those people are up to and what they think about the game now after having been home for a while and seeing the way it played out on TV.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

I was fine with Fabio winning. His results in the last immunity challenges saved his butt from what was most surely a alliance of 3 that he wasn't a part of. Voting Holly off was a wise move too, she'd have been tougher competition than the other two guys.

I was also Ok with Jane getting the vote for the Sprint money, if only because she was a tough old broad. Learning and practicing to make fire before the show was smarter than a whole hell of a lot of previous competitors. Her performance in the physical endurance challenges was very impressive, but since so many of the final challenges have been of that type, she probably doomed herself there more than any other reason.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Einselen said:


> [Redemption Island speculation]:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


More speculation:


Spoiler



I figure the RI survivor will reenter the game at the merge, so there will be plenty of time left. It sounds like a good idea to me.



A rumor that was posted here a few weeks ago about the setup for next season was



Spoiler



that it was going to be Rob vs Russ. It looked like Russ was off on the side, poorly lit and not too happy to be there. Rob looked happy enough and he was spotlighted by his best friend Jeff. Maybe he was just happy with his kid and happy to hang with Jeff. Or maybe he won his duel with Russ.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Neenahboy said:


> Alina's "I want to give the million to a man, not a boy."


I wonder how she would define a "man". I mean other than someone who hands her a weekly allowance.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

Congrats to Fabio! IMO he totally earned it by winning the last 3 challenges.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> I wonder how she would define a "man". I mean other than someone who hands her a weekly allowance.


That comment made me think she had no idea what either a man or a boy was. I just kept thinking of all the things Fabio could have said in reply if he hadn't needed to be nice to keep some votes.


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## acegolfer (Jul 14, 2004)

Arguably, the dullest survivor season in recent memory. But the most deserving person won. So justice served at the end.

Nay seemed more normal than pictured. Fabio looks silly but he made the right choice of voting Holly off. He also made a smart move by making Sash look untrustworthy in the final 4 TC. Good stuff. 

I guess these people are smarter than what it appears.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Over/Under on when Fabio blows through his winnings? I didn't quite catch his investment strategy, but it sounded a little flaky. Undermining the government? 

Then there was something about a relative inventing the color wheel? The internet says that was Sir Isaac Newton.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Over/Under on when Fabio blows through his winnings? I didn't quite catch his investment strategy, but it sounded a little flaky. Undermining the government?
> 
> Then there was something about a relative inventing the color wheel? The internet says that was Sir Isaac Newton.


His month was shaking her head when he said that. He is truely a flake. But after going 3/3 in the immunity challenges, I was very impressed. Glad he won.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Over/Under on when Fabio blows through his winnings? I didn't quite catch his investment strategy, but it sounded a little flaky. Undermining the government?
> 
> Then there was something about a relative inventing the color wheel? The internet says that was Sir Isaac Newton.


I get the feeling that his mom told him stories as a kid and he figured they were real. What a flake. He'll be poor and on the streets within two years.

What a gift that could be. After taxes, that's about 600K. Put that in a crappy investment and get 30K a year forever. Get a job to pay the bills and use that 30 for mad money.

BTW, time for the money to go up. When these shows started 10 years ago, that was a lot of money. Doesn't go as far now. Kick it up to 1.5..... ;-)


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I hope Fabio enjoys the hell out of his money. After tax Survivor winnings isn't a fortune by any means, especially at his age. Take care of mom and then go out and have a great time is my advice.


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Jane won favorite survivor, but I can't believe it was such a landslide that Probst didn't even announce the other finalists. I can't stand Jane and don't understand what everyone else sees in her.


Unfortunately I wasn't surprised. These are the same idiots that voted to give crybaby Rupert $1 million a few years back.

Way to go Fabio!


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## Jebberwocky! (Apr 16, 2005)

No love for Chase's music performance? Not bad imo

I'm glad the Kid won, really glad Sash didn't. Could have gone either way on Chase winning.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

Fool Me Twice said:


> Over/Under on when Fabio blows through his winnings? I didn't quite catch his investment strategy, but it sounded a little flaky. Undermining the government?
> 
> Then there was something about a relative inventing the color wheel? The internet says that was Sir Isaac Newton.


I thought that he said cartwheel.


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## billypritchard (May 7, 2001)

In the 'dark side of Survivor' category, there is a lot of talk in the Spoiler thread at TWOP about Jane accusing Sash of trying to bribe her prior to the F6 vote, which the producers then shut down discussion of and basically wiped out of the game. Nobody knows what is true of course, but that would have had a big effect on the jury.


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## Sadara (Sep 27, 2006)

My husband and I went out and listened to a few more of Chase's songs, not bad. Glad Fabio won though, even if he is a kid, he still deserved it much better than Sash or Chase. I was really surprised by Marty's comments about Jane. I know he has a right to dislike her, but he came across as a complete hater. I'm sure Naonka has paid the price heavily in her job for the attitude she displayed on that show. I said it about middle of the way through the season she probably has parents complaining and as a parents to small children, I am not at all surprised parents did actually complained about her.

Oh and I do think it's pretty cool that Jimmy Johnson found out about some pretty serious heart problems from his second try out for survivor.


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## tiams (Apr 19, 2004)

Marty looked like a total jerk when he asked his question. He is so insecure about his own intelligence that he has to insult others to make himself feel smart. 

Shannon is a homophobic moron. And Sash didn't look much better when he practically stamped his feet and proclaimed "I have a girlfriend!!!"

Poor Fabio. I'm glad he won but I didn't understand a word he said about what he would do with the money.


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## BradJW (Jun 9, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> I often wish they'd record a second hour and put it online or something for the true fans.


I completely agree.


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## StanSimmons (Jun 10, 2000)

tiams said:


> Marty looked like a total jerk when he asked his question. He is so insecure about his own intelligence that he has to insult others to make himself feel smart.
> 
> Shannon is a homophobic moron. And Sash didn't look much better when he practically stamped his feet and proclaimed "I have a girlfriend!!!"
> 
> Poor Fabio. I'm glad he won but *I didn't understand a word he said about what he would do with the money*.


That's ok, neither did he.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

tiams said:


> Marty looked like a total jerk when he asked his question. He is so insecure about his own intelligence that he has to insult others to make himself feel smart.
> 
> Shannon is a homophobic moron. And Sash didn't look much better when he practically stamped his feet and proclaimed "I have a girlfriend!!!"
> 
> Poor Fabio. I'm glad he won but* I didn't understand a word he said about what he would do with the money*.


Me either.

I did want to mention that when they were doing the jury questioning and I think it was the mean lady who asked Chase what he would do if he won, that Fabio sort of jumped in and said he would help his mom too and then started crying. I wondered about how long that sequene really was. It seemed like Fabio started crying and got emotional pretty quick and recovered quick too. I figured it was editing though.


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## crazywater (Mar 7, 2001)

betts4 said:


> Me either.
> 
> I did want to mention that when they were doing the jury questioning and I think it was the mean lady who asked Chase what he would do if he won, that Fabio sort of jumped in and said he would help his mom too and then started crying. I wondered about how long that sequene really was. It seemed like Fabio started crying and got emotional pretty quick and recovered quick too. I figured it was editing though.


He didn't start crying then it was another question about his mom that he started crying...


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

Probst blog:
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/12/20/survivor-nicaragua-jeff-probst-blogs-finale/


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

Three observations:

1. Was it just me or did Jane look like a troll doll at the final tribal council? The makeup helped a bit at the reunion, but the bitter beer face she had on while listening to the goings on at that last tribal was funny and disturbing at the same time.

2. Fabio was trying to convince people he wasn't as dumb as they thought he was because he was playing it up, but Chase was absolutely correct when he pointed out that Fabio did not back-stab anyone because at most tribal councils Fabio had no idea what was going down because he was left in the dark.

3. Schemers that manipulate the game to get to the end will have no chance to win because we are now in the Survivor era where people cannot respect gameplay if their feelings are hurt. Richard Hatch and Brian Heidik won their seasons, partly because of who was sitting next to them, but mostly because they got respect for having such an active hand in PLAYING the GAME. Russell losing the last two also seemed to emphasize the point, except Sandra beating him means that experienced Survivor All Stars have the ability to recognize a solid, winning strategy. She manipulated and back stabbed, but did it out of survival mode and was actually nicer about it than Russell, so she got votes. So I guess that doesn't prove my point at all. 

I was happy to see Fabio win, I hope he does well and always enjoyed his enjoyment of the game. Add my vote to increasing the reward pool, especially if they are doing back-to-back seasons in one location, they should spends some of that savings on bigger prizes.


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

billypritchard said:


> In the 'dark side of Survivor' category, there is a lot of talk in the Spoiler thread at TWOP about Jane accusing Sash of trying to bribe her prior to the F6 vote, which the producers then shut down discussion of and basically wiped out of the game. Nobody knows what is true of course, but that would have had a big effect on the jury.


Yeah, I've read bits and pieces about that, too. Most folks figure the story will never come out due to the confidentiality contract they all sign.

I'm glad Fabio won, though as others have mentioned, Chase made a much better showing at final that I was expecting. Did they show all final the votes? I only saw that Dan voted Fabio and Brenda voted Chase.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

MegaHertz67 said:


> 1. Was it just me or did Jane look like a troll doll at the final tribal council?


It might just be you, or it might be that you're the only one ****ish enough to say it.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

I didn't think troll doll, but I did get a kick out of her expressions. She's so bitter. And watching the Ponderosa videos--boy does she hate Holly!


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I loved the fact that Sash didn't get any votes. I lump him in with Marty as being too full of himself. I was really glad to see Fabio win.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> It might just be you, or it might be that you're the only one ****ish enough to say it.


Really? That was uncalled for. No matter how much you like Jane, you can't deny that she looked scary with that plastered on scowl at the final TC.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> Really? That was uncalled for. No matter how much you like Jane, you can't deny that she looked scary with that plastered on scowl at the final TC.


She looked like Jane. I wasn't scared.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

MegaHertz67 said:


> ...3. Schemers that manipulate the game to get to the end will have no chance to win because we are now in the Survivor era where people cannot respect gameplay if their feelings are hurt. Richard Hatch and Brian Heidik won their seasons, partly because of who was sitting next to them, but mostly because they got respect for having such an active hand in PLAYING the GAME...


I agree. I guess I really don't know/understand how to win this game anymore. It seems like you have to somehow find a way to just "be nice" to everybody and make it to the end, to win. Forget Outwit, Outlast, Outplay...you just have to be at the end and not pissed anybody off. That sure makes for some boring Survivors!


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

pmyers said:


> I agree. I guess I really don't know/understand how to win this game anymore. It seems like you have to somehow find a way to just "be nice" to everybody and make it to the end, to win. Forget Outwit, Outlast, Outplay...you just have to be at the end and not pissed anybody off. That sure makes for some boring Survivors!


Ditto. If I haven't been a fan for all 21 seasons I would drop this show.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

heySkippy said:


> She looked like Jane. I wasn't scared.


I'll try and grab a screencap when I get home. She did not look like Jane. She looked like the bitter beer face guy from the old Keystone beer commercials.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

So it is this season and the next season that are in Nicaugra? Not this season and last season? Yikes....I really was hoping to be done with this lame location (as far as the show is concerned).


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> So it is this season and the next season that are in Nicaugra? Not this season and last season? Yikes....I really was hoping to be done with this lame location (as far as the show is concerned).


Nope, next season is still in Nicaragua. The last two seasons were in Samoa.

Hopefully production realized during the shooting of the first one how lame the location was and made some changes before they started shooting the second season.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

I told my wife she looked like a frog with that scary scowl. I am a fan of Jane, she just looked odd.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

wow...Shannon is still a tool!


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## Neenahboy (Apr 8, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> I'll try and grab a screencap when I get home. She did not look like Jane. She looked like the bitter beer face guy from the old Keystone beer commercials.


She looked like the Grinch; all she needed was some green face paint.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

So...it wasn't just me. Thanks for the confirmation.
One more observation:

This was the 7th time they had a final 3 with a jury of either 7 or 9. Fabio is the first contestant to win the final immunity challenge to go to a final 3, and then get the jury vote for $1 million.

In the 14 times the final TC was a two person vote, the winner of final immunity, who basically picks who went with them to the end, won 6 times and lost 8.

I thought it was interesting.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

So basically, if you can be assured of not getting voted out after the final immunity challenge, you have a better chance of winning the $1 million if you don't win the final immunity.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

maybe that's why they've switched to 3 people.


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## nmiller855 (Sep 26, 2000)

Thank goodness for TiVo. I was able to fast forward through the Nawhatever parts. I have absolutely zero interest in what she has to say or what she thinks. I don't even realize they let her mother say anything until I saw it here. I haven't watched the last part of the reunion yet.


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## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

martinp13 said:


> I was glad Sash got zippo, sort of a Russell Jr.


What an insult to Russell, to compare him to Sash.



Sadara said:


> I was really surprised by Marty's comments about Jane. I know he has a right to dislike her, but he came across as a complete hater.


I thought it made sense that he and Jane aren't going to be friends. What do they have in common? They played a game together, weren't friendly--now they're supposed to be buddies? I would be surprised if many of the alumni of Survivor keep in touch unless they were really close during the game.


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## HoosierFan (May 8, 2001)

And she was the one that was nasty to him, something about never letting their children play together. Why would he make the effort to be friendly?


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## acegolfer (Jul 14, 2004)

Has there been any season where no member from one tribe made to the final 4 for the rite of ritual? If so, how would they remember the other members?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

pmyers said:


> maybe that's why they've switched to 3 people.


The wife and I were talking about this last night. It's much more interesting when there is a final three, because those three people who don't have immunity have to scramble. In the old days when it was just a final two, the winner of the final immunity just chose who s/he wanted to take to the final TC and it was often very anticlimactic.


acegolfer said:


> Has there been any season where no member from one tribe made to the final 4 for the rite of ritual? If so, how would they remember the other members?


I know for sure it happened in Palau, where there was no tribal switch and Stephenie was the last member of her tribe before the merge, and then she was voted out a few days later. The Ulong members who participated in the "fallen comrades" ritual wouldn't have known any of the Koror players who left other than what they saw at challenges.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

pmyers said:


> I agree. I guess I really don't know/understand how to win this game anymore. It seems like you have to somehow find a way to just "be nice" to everybody and make it to the end, to win. Forget Outwit, Outlast, Outplay...you just have to be at the end and not pissed anybody off. That sure makes for some boring Survivors!





brianric said:


> Ditto. If I haven't been a fan for all 21 seasons I would drop this show.


I still think the producers need to change the show to factor in an audience vote for the final tribal. While the audience is obviously manipulated by the editing that takes place along the way, the audience should be able to recognize who has Outwitted and Outplayed, along with Outlasted, and should -- in theory -- be able to help compensate in the voting in that area. With the vote coming entirely from the players it becomes too important to play to the other players emotions, to call upon alliances, or avoid giving up alliances until later in the game. If the home audience comes into play and you can't be sure who they really think the better players are, then you'd likely have to scramble more and get back to doing more of the Out-witting, Out-smarting, etc.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Or have the vote cast at the finale when these dolts have been removed from the game for a while.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

pmyers said:


> Or have the vote cast at the finale when these dolts have been removed from the game for a while.


I could probably live with that if it was the best we could hope for. Certainly removing the jurors from the game for more than a few days would be a good start. Heck, even letting the players *see* the entire season as it aired and then voting would be good because some of the players that were blindsided and stabbed in the back might think a whole lot differently about their former tribemates if that happened.

As things stand now there is just too much emotion in the votes, and still too much hatred of players that were on the other team, or that never bothered to try to form an alliance with you, or cast you aside, or snored too loudly in camp, etc. Giving the players some time to clear their heads before voting and also delaying the questions and answers from the finalists might help.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

stellie93 said:


> What an insult to Russell, to compare him to Sash.


hehe I only meant that he was the self-proclaimed "brilliant strategist" throughout the season, made it to the final, and got squat.

Yes, Sash didn't really hold a candle to Russell in being able to back up the claim.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> I still think the producers need to change the show to factor in an audience vote for the final tribal. While the audience is obviously manipulated by the editing that takes place along the way, the audience should be able to recognize who has Outwitted and Outplayed, along with Outlasted, and should -- in theory -- be able to help compensate in the voting in that area. With the vote coming entirely from the players it becomes too important to play to the other players emotions, to call upon alliances, or avoid giving up alliances until later in the game. If the home audience comes into play and you can't be sure who they really think the better players are, then you'd likely have to scramble more and get back to doing more of the Out-witting, Out-smarting, etc.


:down: to that idea. Last night's reunion show provided a perfect example of why that won't work:

Probst asked the question of Brenda and Sash as to why Sash terminated the alliance with Brenda and why he didn't use his II to save Brenda. Brenda stepped up and informed everyone that she had targeted Sash first and he found out about it. Not even Probst knew about that. So at home we're led to believe that Sash was a cold-blooded backstabber because certain things never made it into the episode, when in reality Sash was just reacting to the fact that Brenda was already targeting him.

Allowing the viewers at home to participate in the vote means that the producers can influence the outcome even more than they already do by editing certain players in certain ways. Show all the good, smart and funny stuff they say and do but leave out all the bad and they become audience favorites. Or show all the crazy, mean or whacked out stuff they say and do and leave out all their normal moments and the audience thinks that person is the devil. That's a recipe for disaster, IMO.

However, one change that I wouldn't mind seeing is to stop having the jury members be able to conspire at Ponderosa. It seems that many times the players leave the game and have a good understanding of why they were voted out, yet they show up at the Final TC and are completely bitter about something or at someone for no apparent reason. These people sit around at Ponderosa 24/7 and have nothing to do but eat, drink, and ***** about the players left in the game. It's inevitable that a degree of groupthink influences their opinions, when previously they might have been perfectly rational.


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## martinp13 (Mar 19, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> However, one change that I wouldn't mind seeing is to stop having the jury members be able to conspire at Ponderosa. It seems that many times the players leave the game and have a good understanding of why they were voted out, yet they show up at the Final TC and are completely bitter about something or at someone for no apparent reason. These people sit around at Ponderosa 24/7 and have nothing to do but eat, drink, and ***** about the players left in the game. It's inevitable that a degree of groupthink influences their opinions, when previously they might have been perfectly rational.


Amen


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## inaka (Nov 26, 2001)

gossamer88 said:


> I wonder what they would've done if one person voted for Sash.


Me too.
Does anyone know?


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

I was tickled to death when Fabio came from behind to solve that puzzle. I was almost giddy because I didn't think it possible once he flubbed one of the questions.

Good on him for winning. I was surprised and happy.

I really didn't understand a bit of what he said he was going to do with the money. Start a travelling interactive band? Whah?


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

I'm fine that not everyone gets airtime on the finale. Those are the uninteresting people anyway, it makes no sense to waste more time on them. Of course it made no sense to waste time on quitters mom.


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## Cainebj (Nov 11, 2006)

Fabio winning shows Survivor has turned into a popularity contest.

Outwit? No.
Outlast. Yes.
Outplay. No.

Taking the final 3 elimination challenges was just plain dumb luck.

I cannot stand him, but Sash played the game better than the other two. Period. End o story. Take me back to the days of Sue calling Richard Hatch a snake (or was it rat?) and then everyone giving him the win.


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

I still maintain that if you do not get the jury votes, you did not outwit, outplay, and outlast. Why do people want to ignore the jury as part of the game? It isn't like they go on there not knowing they have to get the jury votes. This isn't a surprise to anyone. If you can't get the jury to vote for you, you did something wrong, or at least, someone else did better.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

Cainebj said:


> Fabio winning shows Survivor has turned into a popularity contest.
> 
> Outwit? No.
> Outlast. Yes.
> ...


I disagree. He outplayed by winning the three challenges back to back. That was not luck, he beat them at the challenges even when they were ahead of him. He outplayed by just being the dumb surfer guy that rolled with it all and like Dan, just played it cool. I think that worked for him.


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

So Marty found an immunity idol immediately told everyone about it (twice), then gave it away, umm who's the dumbest survivor in history again Marty?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Cainebj said:


> Fabio winning shows Survivor has turned into a popularity contest.
> 
> Outwit? No.
> Outlast. Yes.
> ...


It's pretty obvious.

Fabio most certainly outplayed and outlasted. It wasn't dumb luck to win the last 3 challenges.


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

nmiller855 said:


> Thank goodness for TiVo. I was able to fast forward through the Nawhatever parts. I have absolutely zero interest in what she has to say or what she thinks. I don't even realize they let her mother say anything until I saw it here. I haven't watched the last part of the reunion yet.




I'm sorry but I find this post HILARIOUS.

You don't care about Nayquitter but yet she is the only thing you can talk about in a thread about the show. 

Was Fabio high at the reunion? He seemed so incoherent. Found it funny Jeff never went back to him after he rambled.

I am kinda surprised by Marty's vote. I really thought he was gonna vote for Sash. Would have been great if it came down to a 4-4-1 vote.

What do they do if it is a tie on the final vote?


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Glad Fabio won. Glad this season is over.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

MegaHertz67 said:


> 1. Was it just me or did Jane look like a troll doll at the final tribal council? The makeup helped a bit at the reunion, but the bitter beer face she had on while listening to the goings on at that last tribal was funny and disturbing at the same time.





heySkippy said:


> It might just be you, or it might be that you're the only one ****ish enough to say it.





DevdogAZ said:


> Really? That was uncalled for. No matter how much you like Jane, you can't deny that she looked scary with that plastered on scowl at the final TC.





heySkippy said:


> She looked like Jane. I wasn't scared.





DevdogAZ said:


> I'll try and grab a screencap when I get home. She did not look like Jane. She looked like the bitter beer face guy from the old Keystone beer commercials.


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## Jayjoans (Jan 23, 2003)

DevdogAZ FTW..


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## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> Really? That was uncalled for. No matter how much you like Jane, you can't deny that she looked scary with that plastered on scowl at the final TC.


Agreed. The pissy expression from her displeasure regarding Sash didn't help. She was pretty scary looking.


----------



## fmowry (Apr 30, 2002)

MNoelH said:


> I was tickled to death when Fabio came from behind to solve that puzzle. I was almost giddy because I didn't think it possible once he flubbed one of the questions.


That really surprised me. That was a pretty simple looking puzzle. Chase was baffled by it. If you noticed a piece missing, wouldn't you look on the ground to see if it fell? I can't imagine that puzzle taking more than 60 seconds. It only had about 30 pieces, if that.


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## Byteofram (Oct 29, 2004)

Cainebj said:


> Fabio winning shows Survivor has turned into a popularity contest.
> 
> Outwit? No.
> Outlast. Yes.
> ...


I strongly disagree...Fabio outwitted the rest perfectly because he played it off as the dumb surfer type guy who wasn't a threat and didn't make enemies. Sash played better than Chase, but in no way did he play better than Fabio. He tried to be a Russell and failed miserably...he wasn't even close. You could say anyone that wins a challenge is just lucky..except if they were one of those guys that just ran through all the challenges like Colby in his first season. Luck always comes into it...but he won when it mattered.

Out of the 3...glad Fabio won. This season was very weak and I worry what the new season will be like. I'll keep watching though as Survivor is one of my favorite shows!


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## LifeIsABeach (Feb 28, 2001)

inaka said:


> Me too.
> Does anyone know?


AFAIK Jeff has never said. I assume they would have revoted between the top two vote getters. But then what would have happening if all three got three votes?


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## sbourgeo (Nov 10, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


>


Jane does look pretty rough for someone in her 50's, but some people just don't age well. That can be particularly true if they've spent lots of time outside working in the sun like she probably did on her farm or was a longtime smoker and destroyed their collagen.


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## Magister (Oct 17, 2004)

Did they even talk to Yve (whatever her names is) or Tyrone and maybe one more person. And did they show who voted for who? 

I enjoyed this season because I like Survivor, but it was probably the worst season. 

I remember at the beginning of this season we discussed howmuch more camp time we saw. Well, looks like that is going away with the Redemption thingy. 

Brenda looked great in her tube top type dress thing at the second to last tribal.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Outlast, Outlay-low, outsuck-up!


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## jbernardis (Oct 22, 2003)

fmowry said:


> That really surprised me. That was a pretty simple looking puzzle. Chase was baffled by it. If you noticed a piece missing, wouldn't you look on the ground to see if it fell? I can't imagine that puzzle taking more than 60 seconds. It only had about 30 pieces, if that.


Chase was baffled by quite a few things this season. I can't believe how close he came to winning. I agree he should have been second over Sash, but there is no way he should have been that close to winning. I've never seen one person do so many stupid things.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I like Jane even less for her classic stupid question: "what are you going to do with the money?" Jane, who the F cares?!? I'd like to think I would have told her to STFU if I was them, but I probably would have told her whatever I thought she wanted to hear. Same goes for the quitters!


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## stalemate (Aug 21, 2005)

It would have been so tempting to answer "Two chicks at the same time!"


----------



## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)




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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


>


Thank you DevdogAZ for validating my original statement with this picture. I wasn't saying anything about the way Jane looks, but I was just saying that when I saw this picture, my first thought was about the troll dolls we had when we were kids.


----------



## kettledrum (Nov 17, 2003)

DevdogAZ said:


> :down: to that idea. Last night's reunion show provided a perfect example of why that won't work:
> 
> Probst asked the question of Brenda and Sash as to why Sash terminated the alliance with Brenda and why he didn't use his II to save Brenda. Brenda stepped up and informed everyone that she had targeted Sash first and he found out about it. Not even Probst knew about that. So at home we're led to believe that Sash was a cold-blooded backstabber because certain things never made it into the episode, when in reality Sash was just reacting to the fact that Brenda was already targeting him.
> 
> ...


This. 100% FTW


----------



## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

That post (directly above) reminds me that I meant to say that I think what Brenda was saying at the reunion show was a bit misleading and/or was taken the wrong way. We (the audience) did see her speaking with and plotting a bit with Nay about taking out Sash. Probst may not have seen much of it, but I seem to recall seeing Brenda talk about potentially voting Sash (mostly to flush the idol if I'm thinking correctly) but there was a question of just how serious she was in even hinting at voting Sash, whether it was to flush the idol or do a genuine blindside on him. Nay blew that all up -- in effect totally screwing over the person that had helped her get her idol to begin with, since Nay was too stupid to be able to figure out the clues that Brenda seemed to solve very easily -- by running to Sash as soon as she could.

If the point that DevdogAZ wants to make is that having home viewers vote wouldn't be fair because we see what the producers want us to see and we are easily misled, then I understand it, but I'd argue that having the home viewers involved would perhaps make things more transparent. The Survivor producers could take the Big Brother approach and add a "Survivor Extras" or some such on the net and/or over on Showtime (as has been done with Big Brother) and add some transparency. More buzz, more discussion, more potential for fan involvement. Getting the fans more involved should be a good thing -- including having them vote on who should get the million. Really, it should come down to being able to have the fans involved with a certain percentage of the jury vote, what that percentage should be, I don't know. Perhaps just one jury member's worth, perhaps as much as 1/3 of the votes (give the TV viewers the opportunity to rank their votes 1, 2 or 3, and then apportion votes based on that). It's fairly simple if the home viewers only get 1 total vote, and I'd be fine with that, but I'd still like -- as a fan -- to be able to register a vote that is based on how well I think a player has played -- not because they had an alliance, not because they p.o.'d the wrong players, etc.


----------



## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

Cainebj said:


> Fabio winning shows Survivor has turned into a popularity contest.
> 
> Outwit? No.
> Outlast. Yes.
> ...





stalemate said:


> I still maintain that if you do not get the jury votes, you did not outwit, outplay, and outlast. Why do people want to ignore the jury as part of the game?


Bingo. It's always come down to the same thing...a jury that votes and gets to make their decision based on whatever criteria is important to them.

Season 1 doesn't prove a thing, as Sue Hawk called Richard a snake and Kelly a rat, and then had to give her vote to one of them. If either one of the finalists were "popular" with her, they'd have gotten that vote.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates Jane...

I'm also totally against the fan voting idea...there is money at stake...I imagine the lawsuits coming out when someone loses and sues the producers for not showing the viewers something (I'm sure they sign a waiver, but I'm also sure a lawyer can dance around that) that would have been pertinent to their case...

The producers cut the show to be entertaining...hell, they cut the show to make us think there is a debate about who is getting voted out (manufacture drama, basically) and then the vote is unanimous...if the producers now have to worry about showing us everything, it just can't work...


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## hefe (Dec 5, 2000)

I don't know about this Redemption Island thing. I hope that the players at least know from the first vote that that's where they are sending people.

As long as they're messing with that dynamic, why not make it "Refreshment Island." Give the voted off person time to eat and sleep comfortably and then get their chance to come back.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I also don't agree with the fans voting idea, but it does frustrate me that the jury gets to cast their vote so close to being voted out....but then again if they wait to vote until the finale and they get to watch everything we do, then they too could be pursuaded by the editing.

maybe my wish is just for better/smarter players.

I'd still love to see either 3 tribes or switch up the tribes frequently so that even more relationships can develop/crumble and you don't just get this X tribe vs Y tribe stigma.


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## Anubys (Jul 16, 2004)

pmyers said:


> I also don't agree with the fans voting idea, but it does frustrate me that the jury gets to cast their vote so close to being voted out....but then again if they wait to vote until the finale and they get to watch everything we do, then they too could be pursuaded by the editing.


I'm worried that too much time for emotions to settle is not good for the drama...also, too much time and chance for people to lobby for themselves...


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I think this season could have had a much different feel to it if they hadn't started it out with Young vs. Old. I still enjoyed watching though. 

I know some of you out there hate twists, but I have to say that I love 'em! I'm really looking forward to next season to see how things play out. I think there's something to be said for changing up the rules every so often to keep players on their toes.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DancnDude said:


> ..I know some of you out there hate twists, but I have to say that I love 'em! I'm really looking forward to next season to see how things play out. I think there's something to be said for changing up the rules every so often to keep players on their toes.


I love twists but I'm not a fan of gimmicks, such as old vs young or the horrible ethnic one they did.


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## Havana Brown (Feb 3, 2005)

I found this season to be boring up until the last show. I loved how Fabio changed after he won the immunities. He went from being the dumb blonde to being the one in power. I loved the expression on his face when Sash was talking to him and you know Fabio could see thru it. He had such a giddy look on his face, I was giggling to myself too.

I didn't think Naonka sounded or acted as bad as she did in the show. She seemed more professional and mature at the reunion.

I was surprised to see Chase got that many votes. Naonka and Brenda gave him their votes cause he's hawt.


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## DreadPirateRob (Nov 12, 2002)

I was happy that Fabio won - he was awesome down the stretch and should have been rewarded for stepping up and dominating when he absolutely had to, and he showed a fair amount of moxie and insight in the process - but then he lost some of that earned respect with his reunion show behavior. I'll just chalk it up to him being a kid, and possibly stoned. 

I don't get the Jane love either. I was a fan of hers until she revealed herself to be a bitter old hag down the stretch. I don't like Marty either, but based on what we saw of Jane after Chase crossed her, I tend to think she is a bigger tool than Marty, and that's saying something.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

Havana Brown said:


> I found this season to be boring up until the last show. I loved how Fabio changed after he won the immunities. He went from being the dumb blonde to being the one in power. I loved the expression on his face when Sash was talking to him and you know Fabio could see thru it. He had such a giddy look on his face, I was giggling to myself too.


I loved how he could finally relax. He knew what was going on and he had a modicum of control over the situation.



Havana Brown said:


> I didn't think Naonka sounded or acted as bad as she did in the show. She seemed more professional and mature at the reunion.


Because she had been eating and sleeping well for the last few months. She spent 28 days sleep deprived and hungry. I'm not making excuses for her, everyone was going through the same stuff. But being malnourished and sleep deprived will make you moody and your emotional reactions to every little annoyance quite extreme.



Havana Brown said:


> I was surprised to see Chase got that many votes. Naonka and Brenda gave him their votes cause he's hawt.


I was shocked Sash got no votes. I'm of the opinion that Sash "played the game" better than Chase or Fabio. By that I mean he exerted control over situations and made things happen. When he found himself in a bad spot, he made new alliances to get him further. That cost him votes, but I thought he was the better "player" of the three.

But that is the same circular argument we had the last two seasons about Russell. You have to get to the end, and have the votes, to get the money.


----------



## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

terpfan1980 said:


> If the point that DevdogAZ wants to make is that having home viewers vote wouldn't be fair because we see what the producers want us to see and we are easily misled, then I understand it, but I'd argue that having the home viewers involved would perhaps make things more transparent. The Survivor producers could take the Big Brother approach and add a "Survivor Extras" or some such on the net and/or over on Showtime (as has been done with Big Brother) and add some transparency. More buzz, more discussion, more potential for fan involvement. Getting the fans more involved should be a good thing -- including having them vote on who should get the million. Really, it should come down to being able to have the fans involved with a certain percentage of the jury vote, what that percentage should be, I don't know. Perhaps just one jury member's worth, perhaps as much as 1/3 of the votes (give the TV viewers the opportunity to rank their votes 1, 2 or 3, and then apportion votes based on that). It's fairly simple if the home viewers only get 1 total vote, and I'd be fine with that, but I'd still like -- as a fan -- to be able to register a vote that is based on how well I think a player has played -- not because they had an alliance, not because they p.o.'d the wrong players, etc.


I realize you'd like to have a say in the final outcome, but I think you'd just end up being disappointed there too. As much as many of us true fans of the game thought Russell deserved to win his first season, there are 10x as many casual viewers out there who thought Russell was evil and would never have voted for him. I can pretty much guarantee that if they allowed the fans to vote to help influence the outcome, the fan vote would almost always go to the "nice" contestant.


----------



## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I wish Jeff had asked if anybody knew about Jane catching and eating that entire fish on her own. I thought that entire sequence was really funny and it appeared that nobody had any idea.


----------



## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

btw..Sash looked like an entirely different person all cleaned up!


----------



## omnibus (Sep 25, 2001)

About the survivor rule changes. That thing has got to be thicker and heavier than the Manhattan phone book.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Every season there's lots of discussion after the fact trying to make sense of the jury vote. That's pretty impossible to do seeing how they have one perspective and viewers have another. A sizable chunk of of the jury doesn't see _anything_ first hand after being voted off, relying on tribal council or the comments made by newly-voted-off additions to the jury.

I was a Russell fan and think he had the right idea, mostly. The thing you have most in your control is getting to the final 2 or 3. That's got to be your goal above all else. Doing something "nice" or "strategic" to help your chance of winning at the end is a dumb move if it reduces your chances of getting to the final 2/3.

Once in the finals you're going to get over $100k. That should be the primary goal for most of the game. If you win the last few immunity challenges you should first vote off those you think might beat you in the next challenge before voting off those who might beat you at the end. Once the jury is filling up it's hardly worth breaking up cliques except to stay in the game as you're just putting friends of your competitor on the jury.

We've seen before completely unbelievable winners, which leads me to believe there's no way to predict how the jury will vote. The only sure thing is that if you're not in the final 2 or 3 you're not going to win, so you must do everything to be there. We saw Russell using that approach, but he was wrong about the jury respecting that and giving him the win. While wrong about that, he still beat every one of those people on the jury.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

Snappa77 said:


> Was Fabio high at the reunion? He seemed so incoherent.


I don't know, but he seemed to enjoy that someone wrote "420" on their vote for him.


----------



## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

Idearat said:


> Every season there's lots of discussion after the fact trying to make sense of the jury vote. That's pretty impossible to do seeing how they have one perspective and viewers have another. A sizable chunk of of the jury doesn't see _anything_ first hand after being voted off, relying on tribal council or the comments made by newly-voted-off additions to the jury.
> 
> I was a Russell fan and think he had the right idea, mostly. The thing you have most in your control is getting to the final 2 or 3. That's got to be your goal above all else. Doing something "nice" or "strategic" to help your chance of winning at the end is a dumb move if it reduces your chances of getting to the final 2/3.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything that you are saying. The problem Russell had is that he played back-to-back seasons without knowing the results. He thought he had won the first time, so the same strategy worked just as well to get him to the finals the second time. I wonder if he had the benefit of knowing the first result if he would have played differently the second time.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

pmyers said:


> btw..Sash looked like an entirely different person all cleaned up!


Apparently Shannon still thought he looked like a duck. What a tool.


----------



## dfergie (Aug 27, 2006)

terpfan1980 said:


> If the point that DevdogAZ wants to make is that having home viewers vote wouldn't be fair because we see what the producers want us to see and we are easily misled, then I understand it, but I'd argue that having the home viewers involved would perhaps make things more transparent. The Survivor producers could take the Big Brother approach and add a "Survivor Extras" or some such on the net and/or over on Showtime (as has been done with Big Brother) and add some transparency. More buzz, more discussion, more potential for fan involvement. Getting the fans more involved should be a good thing -- including having them vote on who should get the million. .


I don't know about voting for the winner, perhaps a fan favorite winner (not to be confused with the Sprint winner) I'd watch a Survivor After Dark program seeing actual camp life, interactions & challenge setups etc... and seeing the Ponderosa scheming by the Jury...


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## hummingbird_206 (Aug 23, 2007)

I've been looking all over for the final votes and couldn't find anything "official". Dalton interviewed Fabio and this is what Fabio said about who voted for him



> *We know you got Marty and Dans votes, and Im guessing Benrys as well. Who were the other two?*
> I believe I got Marty, Benry, Dan, Purple Kelly and NaOnka. NaOnkas was the one that had 420 and a volcano on it.


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## Philosofy (Feb 21, 2000)

I think Fabio had the right strategy, at least for him. Now, this strategy wouldn't work for someone uncoordinated, but Fabio played it dumb and clumsy from the beginning. Nobody listed him as a physical threat, even though he was young and in good shape. Nobody took him seriously as a strategist, either. So, he sits back, watches people, and doesn't do anything unless he thinks his head is on the block. When he was threatened, he didn't hold back, winning immunity. So he makes it all the way, with a good social game, and an underrated physical game. He wasn't perceived as backstabbing or being manipulative, so he got the votes. If Ozzy had used that strategy, I'll bet he would have won the million $ on his season.


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## Roadblock (Apr 5, 2006)

I thought Kelly was going to vote for Sash after being so pleased with his answer, making it a tie. She was probably swayed by Naonka's question and Fabio's crying. I was glad Fabio won but immediately disappointed in how he handled it during the reunion show.


----------



## stellie93 (Feb 25, 2006)

I think the new twist sounds interesting. They probably want to change the trend toward voting off strong players right away. You'd have to consider if he would survive and come back to bite you. I wonder what the winner of the loser competition does between tribal counsels? Do they get food and water? Know what's going on?


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## JFriday (Mar 20, 2002)

stellie93 said:


> I think the new twist sounds interesting. They probably want to change the trend toward voting off strong players right away. You'd have to consider if he would survive and come back to bite you. I wonder what the winner of the loser competition does between tribal counsels? Do they get food and water? Know what's going on?


It said they have similar camps/supplies to what the others have.


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## heySkippy (Jul 2, 2001)

I wonder with the new twist if the Survivors will have any way to know who's at Redemption Island after the 2nd TC? I'm guessing they'll be totally in the dark regarding who will rejoin the tribe.

As for when the returnee returns, it would probably be right before the Jury starts forming.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

It will be interesting to see how Redemption Island works. Once a player rejoins the game, does that mean RI is finished for the season? (Meaning that it only operates during the first half of the season, and only one player gets back into the game through RI.) Or will booted off players still go there all the way to the end, with the hope of eventually earning their way back?


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Philosofy said:


> I think Fabio had the right strategy, at least for him. Now, this strategy wouldn't work for someone uncoordinated, but Fabio played it dumb and clumsy from the beginning. Nobody listed him as a physical threat, even though he was young and in good shape. Nobody took him seriously as a strategist, either. So, he sits back, watches people, and doesn't do anything unless he thinks his head is on the block. When he was threatened, he didn't hold back, winning immunity. So he makes it all the way, with a good social game, and an underrated physical game. He wasn't perceived as backstabbing or being manipulative, so he got the votes. If Ozzy had used that strategy, I'll bet he would have won the million $ on his season.


I have a hard time agreeing that Fabio "played" it dumb and clumsy but I agree with everything else.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

DevdogAZ said:


> It will be interesting to see how Redemption Island works. Once a player rejoins the game, does that mean RI is finished for the season? (Meaning that it only operates during the first half of the season, and only one player gets back into the game through RI.) Or will booted off players still go there all the way to the end, with the hope of eventually earning their way back?


my take was this: first player voted out goes to RI. Then when a 2nd person is voted out and goes to RI they have a challenge and the person who wins stays at RI until somebody else gets voted out and then there is another challenge. If you win, you continue to stay. If you lose, then your out of the game for sure. I would assume that continues until the merge and the "last man standing" will return to the game. That certainly would make it tough for the 1st person voted out, unless it was a very physical person then it could be a benifit.


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## MNoelH (Mar 17, 2005)

Has a very physical person ever been the first person voted out? Seems to me that most times the first loser is usually seen as dead weight. I usually don't remember the first ones voted out, but I don't ever remember it being a big burly guy.

I think it's an interesting twist and I'm looking forward to seeing it play out. I can imagine someone in the early-middlish, who got voted out because they're a physical threat, coming back into the game. The problem will be that they will likely not amount to much game-wise because they won't have an alliance; however, I can also see them return at a pivotal point and possibly be the swing vote necessary (but that still would likely put them at the bottom of whatever alliance they side with).


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## uncdrew (Aug 6, 2002)

Philosofy said:


> I think Fabio had the right strategy, at least for him. Now, this strategy wouldn't work for someone uncoordinated, but Fabio played it dumb and clumsy from the beginning. Nobody listed him as a physical threat, even though he was young and in good shape. Nobody took him seriously as a strategist, either. So, he sits back, watches people, and doesn't do anything unless he thinks his head is on the block. When he was threatened, he didn't hold back, winning immunity. So he makes it all the way, with a good social game, and an underrated physical game. He wasn't perceived as backstabbing or being manipulative, so he got the votes. If Ozzy had used that strategy, I'll bet he would have won the million $ on his season.


Exactly. I really think Fabio played it close to perfect. Now he may be a total goofball (or just high on goofballs) but if it was a planned act, he did it well. He made himself harmless and the class clown, people liked him. Then he flat out dominated when he had to. It was like he flipped a switch and went on Colby-mode and just won.

I was impressed.


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## MegaHertz67 (Apr 18, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> It will be interesting to see how Redemption Island works. Once a player rejoins the game, does that mean RI is finished for the season? (Meaning that it only operates during the first half of the season, and only one player gets back into the game through RI.) Or will booted off players still go there all the way to the end, with the hope of eventually earning their way back?


I would assume that like the jury, the person on RI would have to come back for all of the tribals so they have an idea what is going on when they get to rejoin the game, and the person being voted out knows who is waiting for them.


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## JLucPicard (Jul 8, 2004)

hummingbird_206 said:


> I've been looking all over for the final votes and couldn't find anything "official". Dalton interviewed Fabio and this is what Fabio said about who voted for him


I thought they used to have the voting history on CBS.com, but why bother with pertinent information like that? :down:

According to this season's entry on Wikipedia, Holly, Jane, Brenda and Alina voted for Chase and Dan, Benry, NaOnka, Purple Kelly and Marty voted for Jud.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

I wasn't really rooting for anybody throughout the season, but I cheered out loud when Fabio won that first immunity challenge of the night...I don't often become so engaged in TV.

It was fun to watch him win.

I totally buy that he played his game intentionally. I think it is part of who he is, obviously, but like he said in the finale...he is in control of it and aware of how people are perceiving him. He turned it off when it was necessary.


bonus point to Naonka for giving her vote to him (if she really did) instead of Chase, considering their rocky relationship during the game. That puts her at about -553.

I didn't think Fabio came off badly at the reunion. The first half of his interview was quite intelligent, I thought.

He's a 21 year old kid that just win a million dollars...I question what my own composure would be in that circumstance.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Good to see coach get his one second of face time at the reunion


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## Snappa77 (Feb 14, 2004)

MonsterJoe said:


> [_sarcasm_]I didn't think Fabio came off badly at the reunion. The first half of his interview was quite intelligent, I thought.[/_sarcasm_]


fixed

.


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## MonsterJoe (Feb 19, 2003)

Snappa77 said:


> fixed
> 
> .


not even close.

he showed that he was self aware and articulated it fairly well before he became overwhelmed by what was going on. not bad for a 21 year old.

It's a purely unbiased observation, since I didn't care about any of these people throughout the whole season.

The standards for intelligence around here often amuse me.


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## betts4 (Dec 27, 2005)

JLucPicard said:


> According to this season's entry on Wikipedia, Holly, Jane, Brenda and Alina voted for Chase and Dan, Benry, NaOnka, Purple Kelly and Marty voted for Jud.


Surprised that Jane gave Chase her vote. Also, note it was all women that gave him a vote.


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## brianric (Aug 29, 2002)

MegaHertz67 said:


> I agree with everything that you are saying. The problem Russell had is that he played back-to-back seasons without knowing the results. He thought he had won the first time, so the same strategy worked just as well to get him to the finals the second time. I wonder if he had the benefit of knowing the first result if he would have played differently the second time.


Double edge sword. If Russell knew the results of his first try, the other members on his second try would have known how Russell operates and more and likely Russell wouldn't have made it to the finals the second time in a row.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

I'm a little tired of hearing people say, "Sash/Russell etc. played a better game so the jury vote should have gone a different way." I respect their play, but how hard is it to lie and backstab? It's a strategy which gets you to the finals, but what Fabio did was harder to do IMO.

There have been players who got to the finals via their alliances and still won. Even Chase who played an average game and backstabbed his people almost won. So Russell/Sash had flaws in their social game which HELPED get them to the finals because who wouldn't have wanted to sit beside them? That's better game playing???


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

There is more than one way to get to the finals but winning has come down to who pisses people off the least.


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## Family (Jul 23, 2001)

VegasVic said:


> There is more than one way to get to the finals but winning has come down to who pisses people off the least.


Well if NaOnka really voted for Fabio and Jane/Holly wrote down Chase's name then that theory really doesn't hold.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

There's a lot that goes on that we don't see. Seventy two hours get edited down to 45 minutes. And remember, it was Fabio's decision to vote Holly out.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Family said:


> Well if NaOnka really voted for Fabio and Jane/Holly wrote down Chase's name then that theory really doesn't hold.


We can't lump all the jury votes into a single voting philosophy. Each individual juror can make a decision on their own, which is why it's kind of pointless to speculate about what strategy is more successful. It's going to be different every time because the make up of the jury will be different every time.


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## mcb08 (Mar 10, 2006)

VegasVic said:


> There's a lot that goes on that we don't see. Seventy two hours get edited down to 45 minutes. And remember, it was Fabio's decision to vote Holly out.


Did Fabio know that Holly was voting for Sash? If he didn't, he couldn't be certain that his vote would save her. Best case, it would have been a tie. I'm not sure what the tie-breaker would have been.


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## VegasVic (Nov 22, 2002)

Fabio wouldn't have cared who Holly voted for, Sash or Chase. Once he decided she was the one he wanted out all he had to do was tell the other two to vote for her and they would go along, to guarantee themselves a spot in the finals. Chase could have found out from Holly that she was voting for Sash and voted the same way to force a tie but he really wouldn't have benefited from that. I think both Fabio and Chase figured Holly was a bigger threat for jury votes than Sash and since Sash didn't get any votes, they were right. Sash could have also went to Holly and tell her that they could both vote for Chase and force a tie which would at least give Holly a shot with the tiebreaker.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

VegasVic said:


> Fabio wouldn't have cared who Holly voted for, Sash or Chase. Once he decided she was the one he wanted out all he had to do was tell the other two to vote for her and they would go along, to guarantee themselves a spot in the finals. Chase could have found out from Holly that she was voting for Sash and voted the same way to force a tie but he really wouldn't have benefited from that. I think both Fabio and Chase figured Holly was a bigger threat for jury votes than Sash and since Sash didn't get any votes, they were right. Sash could have also went to Holly and tell her that they could both vote for Chase and force a tie which would at least give Holly a shot with the tiebreaker.


The problem with forcing a tie is that we don't know what the tiebreaker procedure is. In the past, they've had a revote, with those who were receiving votes not being allowed to vote. If it's still a tie after the re-vote, then there are a couple different methods they've used. They've had a fire-making competition, and they've also had those NOT RECEIVING VOTES draw rocks. If it's the rock method, then neither Sash nor Chase would want to force a tie, because the one that forced the tie would end up going home.*

*Rock pulling tiebreaker.
Holly and Chase vote Sash, Fabio and Sash vote Holly. There is a re-vote, and Sash and Holly don't get to vote. Chase still votes for Sash and Fabio still votes for Holly. Then they go to the rock pulling. Sash is immune from the rock pulling because he's one of the people the votes are for. Same with Holly. Fabio is immune because he won the IC. Thus, Chase is the only one eligible to go home. That's why neither Sash nor Chase would want to force a tie in that situation, because the blowback could send them home instead.


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Great interview with Sash & Chase, on Hitfix w/Daniel Fienberg. If you're fan enough to read this thread, then read this interview.

One small excerpt:



> *HitFix*: In both of your answers there, you mentioned the way we may have perceived Holly watching the show on TV, versus the way she may have been perceived in the game. Last night, we already heard there was a good explanation for why Sash turned his back on Brenda. Are there one or two other important things that didn't get shown on TV that you guys think fans should know about?
> 
> *Chase*: Are we allowed to answer this? I mean... They didn't show... They didn't show a ton. They have so much stuff to pick from. But some of the things that were perceived as far as me and some of the challenges and as far as some of the things that were said to people and were said to me were 100 percent not true -- and* I can't go into detail because that's against the contract* -- and that bothers me that they can do that, but that's the way they do it and that's TV for you. But yeah,* there are a lot of things that go on that are absolutely 100 percent false *and that definitely bothers me, but that's part of the game and part of putting your life in their hands.


Remembering of course he has his own agenda to play. Nonetheless, one always wonders what we DON'T see.


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

I think the rock-picking thing happens when there are more people in the game and the fire-making challenge happens when it gets down toward the end.


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## terpfan1980 (Jan 28, 2002)

Regarding forcing a tie (by voting with Holly), I think the other reason neither Chase nor Sash really wanted to pair up with Holly is that both of them (Chase and Sash) both felt they'd lose to Holly if she stayed, at least based on what we saw of things.

I'm pretty sure that Sash knew he'd lose out to both Fabio and Holly if he remained with them, and I'm fairly sure that Chase felt he would lose out to Holly too, though I think he liked his chances of beating Fabio at that point. In the end, Chase probably figured that with Holly there he was guaranteed no better than second, but with a Chase/Sash/Fabio final he had a good chance of winning it all.

Once it started to be clear that Fabio was going to get rid of Holly (once he was convinced that was his best move), it made perfect sense for Sash and Chase both to go along with that vote since it served both of their interests completely.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

I like this quote from the article posted above:



> HitFix: We've had two straight seasons where Russell was the chief mastermind, but got routed at the Jury vote. And each time, he complained that the problem wasn't his strategy, but the strategy of a game that prioritizes making friends over making big moves. Given what happened last night, do you guys find yourselves agreeing with him?
> 
> SL: I agree with it. Look, I made some, what I thought to be, bold moves throughout this game. I started playing on Day 1, all the way through Day 39. There was, without a doubt, a bitter Jury. Look, Fabio played a great game. He's very deserving of the million dollars. But I played my heart out out there. I made some bold moves and half the time, Fabio wasn't even sure which way the vote was going. But the Jury, they're able to vote for whoever they want to. Look, I'm a super-fan of the show. I've been watching this for 10 years, 20 seasons. I thought I knew all the strategies, all the different angles, but Fabio played a game I'd never seen before, so I have to tip my hat to the guy. He played a really good game.
> 
> CR: Just for me to carry on that, I think Russell's dead-on also, but it doesn't shock me that a jury's gonna be like that, because it's not like it's people out there looking at it as just a game. It does get personal and we're all people out there, so when people's feelings start getting hurt, they're gonna vote for and go with someone who didn't necessarily make them mad sometimes. They're going to just base it off of emotions and that's what happened. That's unfortunate for myself and for Sash, but I agree with Sash that Fabio did play a... It was a wild game, but he did what he needed to do in the end and he deserves it.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

terpfan1980 said:


> ...I'm pretty sure that Sash knew he'd lose out to both Fabio and Holly if he remained with them, and I'm fairly sure that Chase felt he would lose out to Holly too, though I think he liked his chances of beating Fabio at that point...


take a read at the article posted above about their thoughts on Holly.


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## Fool Me Twice (Jul 6, 2004)

Fabio: Survivor Mastermind 

http://www.masslive.com/television/index.ssf/2010/12/sole_survivor_interview_and_sa.html


> Jud: Yo, Sash, are you there?
> Sash: Yup, Im here.
> Jud: Are you staying at the hotel tonight or are you outta here?
> Sash: Im staying around until tomorrow.
> ...





> ...Like we, ummm (5 seconds of silence followed by a giant sigh), uh, dude, its like so  I wanna celebrate all the cultures around the world and now were at the point where weve evolved long enough to celebrate, you know, The Tower of Babel, whatever, globalization, were finally turning back into a global community and I want to celebrate our history. As opposed to using cultures and religious interpretations as a means to, you know, start war and whatever.
> Like Im over it. It has to do with the Pleistocene Age shifting from our third chakra thats like war-dominated into our fourth thats like, you know, balanced, community. A lot of, it goes deep (uninterpretable grunt/moan). Ummmm, its just changes, man, I think were feeling changes pretty quickly and a lot of powers gonna shift to a younger generation I believe.


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## Idearat (Nov 26, 2000)

Maybe one of these days old documents and video will make their way to Wikileaks and some of this will be more clear.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

That makes Ms. Teen South Carolina look like Einstein.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Yeah...I like Fabio and am glad he won, but I think people give him WAY too much credit for how he "played", other than winning the last 3 challanges when he really had too (which I give him mad props for).


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

Yeah...I like Fabio and am glad he won, but I think people give him WAY too much credit for how he "played", other than winning the last 3 challanges when he really had too (which I give him mad props for).


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## bryhamm (Jun 30, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> I think the rock-picking thing happens when there are more people in the game and the fire-making challenge happens when it gets down toward the end.


Correct. Rock picking happens up until there are 4 people left, then it becomes fire making


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## Barmat (Jun 1, 2001)

astrohip said:


> Great interview with Sash & Chase, on Hit fix w/Daniel Weinberg. If you're fan enough to read this thread, then read this interview.
> 
> One small excerpt:
> 
> Remembering of course he has his own agenda to play. Nonetheless, one always wonders what we DON'T see.


It's been widely rumored that Sash went around and tried to bribe people to fix the game and let him win and split the winnings. He did this on camera.


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## IJustLikeTivo (Oct 3, 2001)

pmyers said:


> Yeah...I like Fabio and am glad he won, but I think people give him WAY too much credit for how he "played", other than winning the last 3 challanges when he really had too (which I give him mad props for).


The passive part of his play got to the final six, his active play did the rest. Surviving long enough to make a big move is huge. How many others lost that chance? You can't discount that factor. There is a definite pattern of laying low and winning late challenges. It's a valid strategy.


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## ufo4sale (Apr 21, 2001)

Barmat said:


> It's been widely rumored that Sash went around and tried to bribe people to fix the game and let him win and split the winnings. He did this on camera.


by who.


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## pmyers (Jan 4, 2001)

IJustLikeTivo said:


> The passive part of his play got to the final six, his active play did the rest. Surviving long enough to make a big move is huge. How many others lost that chance? You can't discount that factor. There is a definite pattern of laying low and winning late challenges. It's a valid strategy.


Not knowing or being a part of how the vote was going at quite a few (especially early on) tribal councils is something I really wouldn't call strategy.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Barmat said:


> It's been widely rumored that Sash went around and tried to bribe people to fix the game and let him win and split the winnings. He did this on camera.


Not buying this, IIRC this behavior is prohibited by contract and grounds for DQ


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## astrohip (Jan 7, 2003)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> Not buying this, IIRC this behavior is prohibited by contract and grounds for DQ


Read this....

http://ginacarbone.wordpress.com/20...s-to-pay-janes-mortgage-if-she-votes-for-him/

and this . . .

http://ginacarbone.wordpress.com/20...-tribal-council-why-did-he-get-no-jury-votes/


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## HIHZia (Nov 3, 2004)

astrohip said:


> Read this....
> 
> http://ginacarbone.wordpress.com/20...s-to-pay-janes-mortgage-if-she-votes-for-him/
> 
> ...


I didn't understand half of that. Where was there any information about the "controversy" or "offer"?


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