# Is Buying A TiVo A Safe Purchase With The Cable Card FCC Mandate Gone?



## Elvite (Feb 28, 2001)

I currently three TiVo products in my house, (Roamio Pro, Premiere Series 4, and Mini) and have owned other models since 2000. Now that the cable companies' FCC mandate to provide and support cable cards has been removed (here is one of a few articles) it would appear that buying a new TiVo would be foolish for anyone who is a cable subscriber.

A couple weeks ago, I called my cable company (Spectrum) to drop a my landline service and increase my internet speed. As we were going over the available service tiers, I discovered that Spectrum has me in what they now call a "legacy" tier, which is the only tier that supports cable cards. All of the current tiers available DO NOT have cable card support.

The way I found this out was that my customer service guy was all ready to change my tier for me (to "save" me money) and casually asked how many cables boxes I wanted as I currently didn't have any. I said "I don't use cable boxes because I have three TiVos". He told me that the new tiers wouldn't work with TiVos because cable cards are no longer supported in anything but their legacy tier for old customers.

He also said that new customers cannot get cable cards and that they no longer stock them. If I have any service issues related to my cables cards, Spectrum will no longer do anything about it, nor are their techs trained to. Eventually, (and especially if I ever moved), my cable cards will not work.

There was no word on when or if Spectrum's legacy tier will be gone, but it's caused me to not consider buying a new TiVo in the future as it seems like it is now based on obsolete tech if you want to watch cable. Unfortunate, but I was curious if anyone knows what TiVo might be doing to try to keep us in their ecosystem. Is there anything TiVo is or can do short of fighting the FCC over this? Seems like the writing is on the wall.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

I really gotta get my Roamio Pro on ebay, quick. 

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## Elvite (Feb 28, 2001)

I should also say that if I bought a new TiVo, the customer support tech said that he couldn’t promise me that I would be able to have my existing cable card transferred and activated in the new TiVo. It would appear that I would be taking a big risk even buying a new TiVo in that there’s a good chance it won’t work.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Well, if you only care about being able to DVR locals, you could get an OTA TiVo and an HD antenna (assuming you are in reach of the local HD signals.....)


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

jlb said:


> Well, if you only care about being able to DVR locals, you could get an OTA TiVo and an HD antenna (assuming you are in reach of the local HD signals.....)


It's a shame Tivo stopped focusing on boxes that do both. Roamio pro's, most bolts and all cable edges. No path to usefulness when the cable card Era is over. Roamio basic, some bolts and Premier and older can still go OTA.

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## NorthAlabama (Apr 19, 2012)

comcast just gladly signed me up for two years with my cable card as the primary and only equipment, so i'm predicting no issues with them in the short-term.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Well no one can speak for your cable co/area other than you. But I would not take one CSR's word for it. MY experience is that CSRs and techs often don't know what they are talking about when it comes to cablecard and Tivo. 

Also what is in the "legacy" tier compared to these other tiers.



On the other hand I think even before the disappearance of the cablecard mandate, buying a new Tivo was a hard sell these days. I sold off my Tivo equipment on EBay early this year and moved on. I was already watching most of my tv via streaming services like Netflix with Tivo mostly only doing sports for me.

And I mean hard sell in that you can buy an ok 55"TCL tv for $220ish with a Roku built in and get Netflix and Prime and Disney+ etc and get various cable over the internet services, ...the idea of buying a cable Tivo with lifetime that approaches a $1000 starts to feel a bit crazy sorta speak. Even a very nice, pretty much top of the line LG OLED 55" tv is $1300 at Costco these days with all you need to watch tv on-demand built in. ... But I digress.


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

Elvite said:


> but I was curious if anyone knows what TiVo might be doing to try to keep us in their ecosystem. Is there anything TiVo is or can do short of fighting the FCC over this? Seems like the writing is on the wall.


Doesn't seem like they're reacting to this at all, unless we consider that under the latest owners TiVo already prepared in advance by moving to a pure streaming play, the Stream 4K.

I'm keeping a Roamio Pro and v2 Minis going, while also experimenting with hybrid setup from others that includes OTA and CableCARDs (using HD HomeRun tuners, live and recorded by Channels DVR). I've also played with a CableCARD replacement solution currently in beta: TVE ("TV Everywhere" with Channels DVR: see Channels - TV Everywhere ...I have Xfinity, but here's the Spectrum support thread ...this is very much in still beta).

If it weren't for two or three news/talk channels, we would have dropped cable long ago.


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## powrcow (Sep 27, 2010)

Do the math.

For a Cox DVR for me, it's $20/month for DVR service and $10/month per receiver, so $40/month for two TVs with DVR service. A new TiVo Edge with Lifetime is $950. Add a Mini Lux for $200 and the two-room TiVo cost is $1150. The break-even point where owning a TiVo is cheaper than continually renting Cox DVR is 1150/40 = 28.75 months.

So for me, the total cost is cheaper if I own it for more than ~2.5 years. None of us know when Spectrum/Cox/Comcast will drop CableCard support entirely, so that's the gamble you take when committing to a new TiVo. You can "hedge" your bet by buying a used TiVo that can do both cable and OTA. That will also drop the TiVo price a bit and move the break-even point in TiVo's favor.

Also note that many cable operators' boxes use CableCards but the CSRs don't know that or make that distinction. Cable companies need to phase out all of their CableCard dependent technology before they can drop standalone CableCard support.


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## powrcow (Sep 27, 2010)

But the argument against TiVo is that ALL of cable TV is expensive so just pick the streaming service that gives you the channels/shows you watch and be done with it. That's also hard and can quickly equal the cost of cable TV.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

powrcow said:


> But the argument against TiVo is that ALL of cable TV is expensive so just pick the streaming service that gives you the channels/shows you watch and be done with it. That's also hard and can quickly equal the cost of cable TV.


Eh. Iptv costs have gone up. By the time you add a service to the cost of internet, you're already at the cost of cable or more.

There really is no cut and dry answer. Regardless of the people that wrongfully think their viewing habits are what the habits of everyone else should be, they're just not. So what makes sense for one might not make sense for another. It really gets tiring having others tell you how you should enjoy your TV viewing.

The easiest way to say no, it's not worth it, is if you have a friend or family member who's cable credentials you can use. Go the Channels dvr route with TV everywhere and augment with an antenna/hdhomerun if you like or even Locrap. Trial is free, and it's $80/yr after. Buy your buddy or family member a case of beer, bottle of wine or a nice filet from Costco. See if that does the trick.

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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

I am a Spectrum customer with TIVO. I certainly imagine these days, since they don't have to they may refuse to support new customers. However, over the last 2 months I have had 2 Tivo boxes fail - my original and a replacement. They on the phone and came out to get the first box working. Eventually, they told me that if a new card and new tuning adapter didn't fix my problem I would have to pay for service call.
The new cable card and tuning adapter fixed that problem. 3 weeks later the "new" Tivo Bolt died and they sent me a replacement - the support person on the phone got my cable card paired with this BOLT in a few minutes - she seemed to know what she was doing.
I was told they don't put Cable Cards on trucks and would have to get if needed. 
Who knows what they will say next week. I have found always confusion with Spectrum and cable cards but keep trying and get the right person. It really is getting to be not worth it. Unfortunately, where I live Spectrum only has 2 tuner boxes and no whole home so why bother. Maybe the cloud DVR will get here soon.
No great solution.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

powrcow said:


> Do the math.
> 
> For a Cox DVR for me, it's $20/month for DVR service and $10/month per receiver, so $40/month for two TVs with DVR service. A new TiVo Edge with Lifetime is $950. Add a Mini Lux for $200 and the two-room TiVo cost is $1150. The break-even point where owning a TiVo is cheaper than continually renting Cox DVR is 1150/40 = 28.75 months.


That's not very long at all. Heck, I suspect most people rent their cable modems too, even though buying your own easily pays for itself within a year, usually less.

Edit: fixed typo I noticed after someone liked this post.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

dbpaddler said:


> It's a shame Tivo stopped focusing on boxes that do both. Roamio pro's, most bolts and all cable edges. No path to usefulness when the cable card Era is over. Roamio basic, some bolts and Premier and older can still go OTA.
> 
> Sent from my Surface Duo using Tapatalk


My bolt can do both I think. But it wouldn't matter as I would pick up locals with a switch to something like youtubetv


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

jlb said:


> My bolt can do both I think. But it wouldn't matter as I would pick up locals with a switch to something like youtubetv


Yeah. A few Bolts models did. If you can use someone else's cable credentials, definitely check out Channels DVR with TV_Everywhere.

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## powrcow (Sep 27, 2010)

dbpaddler said:


> The easiest way to say no, it's not worth it, is if you have a friend or family member who's cable credentials you can use.


There has to be a better path than effectively stealing cable.


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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

Well, there are legit ways of doing this ie if a family member does YouTube tv for example I think you can have 5 or 6 family members on the same account.


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## LarryAtHome (Feb 18, 2008)

jlb said:


> Well, if you only care about being able to DVR locals, you could get an OTA TiVo and an HD antenna (assuming you are in reach of the local HD signals.....)


With ATSC 3.0 just starting up, OTA on a TiVo may end also.....


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## Pokemon_Dad (Jan 19, 2008)

LarryAtHome said:


> With ATSC 3.0 just starting up, OTA on a TiVo may end also.....


When any station finally officially switches, they have to also broadcast in ATSC 1.0 for five years. Seems to me we have just as much time on legacy CableCARDs too, since we're also on that topic. So no need for immediate worry, but this does make a lifetime TiVo seem barely worth it at this point.


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## tommiet (Oct 28, 2005)

[QUOTE="ManeJon, post: 12174699, Unfortunately, where I live Spectrum only has 2 tuner boxes and no whole home so why bother. Maybe the cloud DVR will get here soon. No great solution.[/QUOTE]

I also live in an area where Spectrum only has an OLD 2 tuner box. BUT, a couple of weeks ago, when I was going to drop my TV service (due to another price increase,) Spectrum offered me a streaming package option with a cloud DVR. It seems the only way you can get this option is asking to cancel service. I ended up keeping my cable TV service with a $20.00 discount AND they raised my internet service download speed from 200Mbps to 500Mbps. Upload fromm 20Mbps to 80Mbps. The DVR service was $5.00 a month. Streaming was $15.00-$49.00. Customers cannot get the streaming/DVR options unless you have their Internet service.

Spectrum knows the home DVR is coming to an end and they are not spending money on new products. Overall, my Spectrum service is fine..

When my TiVo yearly service ends in June 2021, I'm going to try Spectrum's cloud/dvr service. I can try the steaming service @ anytime as Spectrum allows current customers to use it anytime. Might try the DVR service late 1st quarter.

TiVo's DRV days are numbered. No way would I buy a TiVo product that needs a cable card and too many free options for OTA recording.

The wife owns the remote in my house... I just pay the bill. She will make the call.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

Pokemon_Dad said:


> When any station finally officially switches, they have to also broadcast in ATSC 1.0 for five years. Seems to me we have just as much time on legacy CableCARDs too, since we're also on that topic. So no need for immediate worry, but this does make a lifetime TiVo seem barely worth it at this point.


I can see cablecos ending support for *retail* CableCards at some point relatively soon.

Given my personal experience with Spectrum I wouldn't be surprised to see them announce *retail* CC support ending sometime within the next couple of years.

Which is why I've *always* bought Tivo models compatible with both cable & antenna.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

powrcow said:


> But the argument against TiVo is that ALL of cable TV is expensive so just pick the streaming service that gives you the channels/shows you watch and be done with it. That's also hard and can quickly equal the cost of cable TV.


Totally depends on service and area - here in ATL Comcast cable w/HSI is about the same price as something like YTTV w/HSI.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

Yep, if you're in a competitive market, cable is still an affordable option. But if you're in monopoly markets like a lot of us, cable doesn't even come close. If I were to get the same channel lineup as YTTV on Spectrum (the only provider in my neighborhood besides satellite), I'm looking a $85 + $25 or more in bogus fees (sports, broadcast, etc.). Yes, they have new customer promo deals for $40. But it's really difficult to maintain that price. While $65 YTTV has gotten pricey, it's still nowhere near cable in the long run. In fact, I can get all the channels I actually watch for $15 on TVision or $20 on Philo plus my OTA DVR (Recast).


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

jlb said:


> Well, there are legit ways of doing this ie if a family member does YouTube tv for example I think you can have 5 or 6 family members on the same account.


Yep. I share my mom's. She's on my Prime. My mom and sis both use my Netflix. Tmobile subsidizes my Netflix. Verizon pays for my Disney.

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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

Elvite said:


> A couple weeks ago, I called my cable company (Spectrum) to drop a my landline service and increase my internet speed. As we were going over the available service tiers, I discovered that Spectrum has me in what they now call a "legacy" tier, which is the only tier that supports cable cards. All of the current tiers available DO NOT have cable card support.
> 
> He told me that the new tiers wouldn't work with TiVos because cable cards are no longer supported in anything but their legacy tier for old customers.
> 
> ...


You should send an email or registered mail to your local office advising that you are considering a new TiVo DVR and would like to know how long they will support you as a customer using a cable card with a TiVo DVR. Tell them that you will be moving on from Spectrum if the answer is not at least three years (whatever you consider the break even point). Their [lack of a] response will answer your question. If they commit, in writing, to support your for three years, they will. If they are ambiguous, begin exploring other options.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

wizwor said:


> You should send an email or registered mail to your local office


Local offices have close to zero input into, nor knowledge of, what is going to happen two months from now, let along three years (the only reason they may know about next month is because they get training materials to be able to sell whatever it is they are going to be offering).

I suppose you could try Corporate Customer Relations, but I would be surprised if they have any real clue about three years from now regarding CableCARDs, and in any case, any answer you received would have enough wiggle room such that it would give you little to no real information about the plans.

My personal guess (which is worth nothing) is that as long as Charter continues to offer Linear QAM TV services, CableCARDs will be tolerated and continue to work (as good, and especially as badly with SDV, as they do now), although, as previously mentioned, getting someone who can spell CableCARD, let along get the device working, can be a crap shoot (but that is mostly the same as now; my experience with Charter CableCARD support has been pretty good, but that is as anecdotal as the people who have had terrible experiences, and of course says nothing about anyone's next interaction).


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

CommunityMember said:


> Local offices have close to zero input into, nor knowledge of, what is going to happen two months from now, let along three years (the only reason they may know about next month is because they get training materials to be able to sell whatever it is they are going to be offering).


That's not true. Local offices control everything except policy and signal. That includes exceptions. If you have a guarantee -- in writing -- they will honor it. Some people will be legacy customers for many years. I had a lifetime locked rate for internet through two sales of my local office. The third company simply bought me out, but that was a decade later. Even at that, they told me just to call at the end of my 'promotion' and they would extend it.


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## southerndoc (Apr 5, 2003)

Now that we have a new president-elect, maybe we should start a campaign to email/write letters to the Biden administration (both the White House and FCC) to strongly recommend either mandating continued CableCARD support for another 3-5 years or mandating an alternative be developed that will allow set-top boxes to have CableCARD functionality that is downloadable.

It would be ideal to have the ability for TiVo's, AppleTV's, and smart TV's to have the ability to download a CableCARD-equivalent software that will decode channels.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

southerndoc said:


> Now that we have a new president-elect, maybe we should start a campaign to email/write letters to the Biden administration (both the White House and FCC) to strongly recommend either mandating continued CableCARD support for another 3-5 years or mandating an alternative be developed that will allow set-top boxes to have CableCARD functionality that is downloadable.
> 
> It would be ideal to have the ability for TiVo's, AppleTV's, and smart TV's to have the ability to download a CableCARD-equivalent software that will decode channels.


Many alternatives already exist. CableCARD mandate was born so consumers didn't have to rent cable company equipment. Now that many cable companies let you use your own streaming device (Spectrum, Comcast, etc.), such a mandate has been rendered moot. Adding to that the many streaming alternatives available today makes cable card even more irrelevant.

Lastly, Tivo users are such a tiny group, even if everybody wrote their congress people, it would barely be a blip on anyone's radar.

Personally, as a cable card user for decades, I'd love to see it supported forever. But it's irrelevant in today's environment. I moved to streaming a couple of years ago and am enjoying the same or better savings than I did with cable card.


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## slowbiscuit (Sep 19, 2006)

Agreed, cards are obsolete and few will be sad to see them go. Everything's going IP (if it hasn't already) and Tivo's days are numbered.

I'm much happier with the reality that the FCC will now be run by folks that are more willing to balance oligopolies against consumers.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

southerndoc said:


> Now that we have a new president-elect, maybe we should start a campaign to email/write letters to the Biden administration (both the White House and FCC) to strongly recommend either mandating continued CableCARD support for another 3-5 years or mandating an alternative be developed that will allow set-top boxes to have CableCARD functionality that is downloadable.
> 
> It would be ideal to have the ability for TiVo's, AppleTV's, and smart TV's to have the ability to download a CableCARD-equivalent software that will decode channels.


Maybe you just need to get over it and realize technology becomes antequated and much better alternatives are available that allow the company to be more efficient and profitable.

Seriously... Nobody cares but tivo dvr owners (and maybe some scattered hdHR prime owners) who knew the time would come at some point. The rest of the world either doesn't care or is happy to see them go the way of the dodo.

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## jlb (Dec 13, 2001)

I hope CC support lasts as long as possible for me strictly from a cost perspective. I actually have a decent Comcast package that meets our needs well. But I am also a realist and know it won’t be forever. From a pure technical perspective, the quality of the video when we have to switch will be far better. But it will cost more to get the same content. Prob about $15-$20 more a month. I haven’t done the exact estimate in a while.

I am just thankful there are options for when that day comes.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

mdavej said:


> Many alternatives already exist. CableCARD mandate was born so consumers didn't have to rent cable company equipment. Now that many cable companies let you use your own streaming device (Spectrum, Comcast, etc.), such a mandate has been rendered moot. Adding to that the many streaming alternatives available today makes cable card even more irrelevant.
> 
> What other streaming devices work with the Cable companies such as Spectrum, Comcast? I know you can watch from apps or over the internet but are there others that let record, pause, skip ads, etc.


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

southerndoc said:


> It would be ideal to have the ability for TiVo's, AppleTV's, and smart TV's to have the ability to download a CableCARD-equivalent software that will decode channels.


That is (approximately) what the FCCs DSTAC (Downloadable Security Technology Advisory Committe) was tasked to come up with in response to the STELAR act (which started the sunset on CableCARDs in 2014). In the end, the attempt failed (the industry was split with no ability to come to any agreement on ways to move forward). The FCC (back in 2015) decided to abandon the efforts. And at this point, that ship has sailed (and there is no future voyage planned).


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## CommunityMember (May 22, 2020)

mdavej said:


> Lastly, Tivo users are such a tiny group, even if everybody wrote their congress people, it would barely be a blip on anyone's radar.


I don't recall the exact numbers for each provider, but in general the CableCARD customer base was under 1%, and was (significantly) smaller than the monthly churn for most providers (and that is just one month of churn). Of course, as everyone else abandons cable TV the percentage of people with CableCARDs (still hanging on to their TiVo) might go up a bit, but when the ship is sinking being the last one dancing in the ballroom is really nothing to be pleased about (no matter who your partner is).

I think that a good number will ride their CableCARD to the end of support for their provider, but no one should presume that support lasts forever, even as there is no known reason to panic today.


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## mdavej (Aug 13, 2015)

CommunityMember said:


> ... there is no known reason to panic today.


What is the basis for this statement? There's more reason to panic than ever - the first post of this thread as well as the fact that the FCC's cable card mandate is gone. Even if I could still afford cable, there's no way I'd buy a new cable card device at this point.


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## dbpaddler (Sep 25, 2004)

Well, I think anyone is dumb for buying a new Tivo dvr product period right now. Buy used on eBay. Much easier time paying for itself at this point. 

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## kb7oeb (Jan 18, 2005)

I think the DVR era might be coming to a close. Without a legal obligation to support it, cable won't. ATSC 3.0 plans to support encrypting free to view content, so we won't have current situation where anyone can put together an OTA DVR.

That said, I live in Phoenix where ATSC 3.0 has been broadcasting for a long while and I still can't just go on Amazon and buy a tuner. We have lots of Duopolies here, one of them (KNXV/KASW) has one transmitter airing everything in ATSC1.0 and the other doing ATSC 3.0.

I think if you were going to do a TiVo for OTA you would be safe for the next 5 years. Almost no one can view ATSC 3.0 and there is no mandate, I think it will take much longer than the last transition.

Cable I think is much less clear, I've heard they are moving to IP based streams that I doubt existing TiVos could support (but I don't have cable so I haven't dug into it)


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

I think the cable era is coming to an end. DVRs are fine. Put up an antenna. Love your TiVo again.


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## Elvite (Feb 28, 2001)

My thoughts for now with what I learned from my talk with Spectrum (I wrote the original post here) is that I feel like Spectrum most likely won’t actively disable CableCards, because at this point it would be bad PR with long-time customers. Instead, I think they’ll wait it out and one of a few things will eventually happen...
1. Within a few years, the units like TiVo that use them will eventually die if not the actual CableCards themselves
2. Customers may want to change their TV service plans and be forced to deactivate them to get into other plans.
3. Customer’s move away rendering the cards useless.

As long as they don’t train any of their staff to service them (as the cards are obsolete), I think that will shield them from most if not all of any potential bad PR. Deactivating them outright would be unnecessarily aggressive, especially when cable is bleeding customers.

As for me, the biggest reason I still subscribe to cable TV is because I love using my TiVos. If I could no longer use a TiVo with cable, then I will likely see that as a sign to cut the cord from Cable TV. After all, I already have several streaming services like Netflix, CBS All-Access, Disney+/Hulu (free from Verizon), Amazon Prime, Peacock (free-tier now but only $5/month to get access to everything), HBO Max (which is currently free with Spectrum so that would cost me $15/month), and Apple TV+. I feel like I already have plenty to choose from, if I dropped cable TV service then I’d only have to pay an additional $20/month to keep the streaming I have going. I’m sure my current cable TV costs much more than that. The only thing I can think of that I might have a harder time watching is news and the latest episodes of Pawn Stars and Flash. Oh, I guess I’d have to find a decent way to watch Bob’s Burgers. Otherwise, I could easily watch most of the major networks plus a whole lot more through streaming.


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## ncbill (Sep 1, 2007)

how is hbo max free with spectrum?

since i'm using a cablecars i bet i'm on your same legacy tier


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## Elvite (Feb 28, 2001)

ncbill said:


> how is hbo max free with spectrum?
> 
> since i'm using a cablecars i bet i'm on your same legacy tier


Because I have HBO in my TV service with Spectrum. Here's a link to an article I Googled that might help...
How to get HBO Max on Spectrum and where to watch?


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## tim_m (Mar 8, 2017)

I'll be happy to have Ajit Pai gone, i would love to have Wheeler back, but that's probably asking too much. He would give us net neutrality back and restart his plan to allow consumers to buy their own cable boxes.


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## ManeJon (Apr 14, 2018)

I know logic doesn't make sense always - but if I were a cable provider I'd want to make it easy for customers to use my service - it they want to do TIVO fine - I'd help them. Getting rid of services such as TIVO just makes "cord cutting" more of a good option for people. I'd want people to stay on cable and access it however they want to. But that is me.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

Elvite said:


> My thoughts for now with what I learned from my talk with Spectrum (I wrote the original post here) is that I feel like Spectrum most likely won't actively disable CableCards, because at this point it would be bad PR with long-time customers. Instead, I think they'll wait it out and one of a few things will eventually happen...
> 1. Within a few years, the units like TiVo that use them will eventually die if not the actual CableCards themselves
> 2. Customers may want to change their TV service plans and be forced to deactivate them to get into other plans.
> 3. Customer's move away rendering the cards useless.
> ...


well it isn't about disabling cable cards. IT's about moving to IPTV. Cable cards don't go away until they are ready to move everyone over to IPTV. This requires the infrastructure in place and the equipment at the customer's home to be able to support it. I think the latter is a big logistics issue that isn't done overnight.

so as you say, not letting new customers sign up for services that require cablecard or discouraging them is a way to lower the number of boxes in the wild that don't support IP and thus reduce the # that need to be replaced.

When the time comes, I assume the remaining customers on old boxes will be given enough warning time so they can get new boxes.


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## DouglasPHill (Feb 10, 2005)

Been lots of doom and gloom on these boards the past few months. I bought a Bolt 5 or 6 months ago. Has worked fine, wish the guide data was better and there's something about how it communicates with my tv that isn't exactly right. And if the networks ever have new content I'm set.


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## jcondon (Jul 9, 2003)

DouglasPHill said:


> Been lots of doom and gloom on these boards the past few months. I bought a Bolt 5 or 6 months ago. Has worked fine, wish the guide data was better and there's something about how it communicates with my tv that isn't exactly right. And if the networks ever have new content I'm set.


I felt the same as you did a year or two ago when I bought a refurbished Bolt. But I do think the days are numbered at least on some cable systems. FiOS seems ok but Cablevision/Optimum/Altice just sucks now with cable card support. There are a few threads where they are pushing switched digital crap again. I had one of those TA's years ago it was unreliable and turns out nothing I or my wife cared about was on switched digital. However a month or 3 ago I had to replace a failed hard drive in one of our Premieres. Getting them to rebind it was a PIA that took weeks and many calls and chats. Supposedly some issue with their head end systems. Finally get it activated and a day or two later my wife notices channels she actually cares about aren't working. Another couple of weeks of calls and chats and supposedly right around the time I replaced the HD they moved StarzEncore channels to the Switched Digital and I supposedly need a TA. I asked them to send me one. Well we don't have any to send. You might get lucky at one of retail stores.

At some point we will probably just switch back to FiOS. Don't really want to deal with an installer in my house at this time though so we put up with it for now.

TLDR; really depends on the provider. If you have one that is supporting cable cards and doesn't suck, great.

Optimum Cable Card Issues With Tivos


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## andrewjs18 (Nov 4, 2020)

I'm new to the tivo platform. I've been using a cable card with a ceton infinitv tv tuner for the past decade. it still works, fairly decently, but it's starting to age - both the computer components and the tv tuner....more and more frequent wmc crashes, tuner errors, the need to use a paid tv listing provider, etc. I could probably push it for another 1yr+, but I'd rather not and just look for alternatives. 

I was researching both the tivo roamio pro and the hdhomerun prime 6. when the prime 6 was recently announced as being a dead product, I knew there wasn't a ton of alternatives so I started searching for some solutions and checking pricing on ebay. I scored a tivo roamio pro with lifetime service, a mini vox and a wireless adapter for around $500-$515.

I think the decent fios DVR runs $20-30/month plus I'm paying $8-9/month for their digital tv converter box for my bedroom tv, so roughly $400/yr if I went with fios stuff...I think I might be able to get ~$100-150 for my current HTPC and then shed $25/yr from not needing schedules direct programming guide for WMC...my tivo purchase should pay off in about a year or so...


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## wizwor (Dec 18, 2013)

DouglasPHill said:


> Been lots of doom and gloom on these boards the past few months. I bought a Bolt 5 or 6 months ago. Has worked fine, wish the guide data was better and there's something about how it communicates with my tv that isn't exactly right. And if the networks ever have new content I'm set.


I think you just made the case for NOT buying a TiVo at this time. You only left out the part about us not knowing what business management wants to be in. It's clearly not the retail DVR business.


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