# Received an upgrade offer via email today.



## Rebate_King (Nov 10, 2004)

https://www.tivo.com/shop/promo/roamio-upgrade-offer-landing-page?v=XA0N017T4W


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## bayern_fan (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks for the link.

It looks like this is basically an online version of the deals for Roamio/Plus/Pro that people have had to call into TiVo Phone Sales to get.


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## BlackBetty (Nov 6, 2004)

Interesting. The prices reflect non MSD lifetime pricing. Would the price be $100 cheaper with MSD? The pro is listed as $899. If I already have a lifetime unit, will the price drop to $799 in my cart? $200 off the retail price of the pro? 

If this is the case, I may have to finally pull the trigger.


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## Austin Bike (Feb 9, 2003)

When I tried it, the site removed $100 from my service, but only $50 from the unit.


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## CloudAtlas (Oct 29, 2013)

BlackBetty said:


> Interesting. The prices reflect non MSD lifetime pricing. Would the price be $100 cheaper with MSD? The pro is listed as $899. If I already have a lifetime unit, will the price drop to $799 in my cart? $200 off the retail price of the pro?
> 
> If this is the case, I may have to finally pull the trigger.


Order summary

TiVo Roamio Pro $599.99
with discount applied $500.00

Product Lifetime service $399.99
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Promo code $899.99
XA0N017T4W


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## L David Matheny (Jan 29, 2011)

BlackBetty said:


> Interesting. The prices reflect non MSD lifetime pricing. Would the price be $100 cheaper with MSD? The pro is listed as $899. If I already have a lifetime unit, will the price drop to $799 in my cart? $200 off the retail price of the pro?
> 
> If this is the case, I may have to finally pull the trigger.


After chasing a few links, I would say yes, you should also get the MSD. But I haven't actually tried it yet.


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

They're talking about this in the Roamio Deals thread.

The promo code appears to be unique for each individual.

MSD is figured into the savings, so you're really only getting $25/$50/$100 off (look at the regular price in red, above the sale price).

Not a good deal, IMO.


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## supasta (May 6, 2006)

steve614 said:


> Not a good deal, IMO.


I agree. I could sell my lifetime Premiere 4 and get a better return than what this promo code offers me. It seems like a small gesture to appease those who want an upgrade option. I'm sure some will bite, just not me. My premiere might be slow, but it gets the job done.


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## Bierboy (Jun 12, 2004)

supasta said:


> ...My premiere might be slow, but it gets the job done.


This.


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## bsmith1051 (Nov 15, 2009)

FYI - this offer is showing-up in the onscreen ads, too. I second the idea that the Premiere is fast enough... if barely. I'll wait until after the Holidays to see what the next series of upgrade offers holds.


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## davidahn (Jun 6, 2005)

TiVo has always been their own worst enemy in terms of gaining market share.

1. Gouging. Who wants to pay $14.99 a month FOREVER for a GUIDE service?!? We already bought the box and the software. I guarantee if service was $6/mo or $10/mo for a household, they'd get MILLIONS of new subscribers. And $500 for a new subscriber PLS?!? Do they NOT want people to buy PLS? They compare their $20/mo to cable's $20/mo HD DVR boxes, but that's a ridiculous comparison, since you didn't buy the cable box for $600.

2. Fake deals. Time and again I've been fooled by great sounding deals that promise $150-200 off but end up being zero to $50 off their regular prices: they keep advertising the MSD as a "deal" even though it's POLICY. I got 4 Premieres I got free with TV purchases 2 Black Fridays ago that I won't activate because of their refusal to budge on PLS/monthly pricing. And now this "deal." I just went to their site promising $200 off the regular $1199 for Pro + PLS. I log in to get the promised $200 plus hopefully my $100 MSD, but it ends up $999, just like it's ALWAYS been ($1099-$100 MSD). Entering the coupon shows "discount already applied". If it was $200 off PLUS $100 off, I was gonna buy it tonight. But instead, it's NO CHEAPER than their everyday pricing. Are people falling for this? Am I doing something wrong and there really IS a deal?

3. Feature removal. When they first made the TiVo app for iPhone/iPad, it was awesome: you could see the guide, your Now Playing, To Do list, everything, on my Premiere AND the S3. But somewhere about 1-2 years ago they REMOVED half the features for the S3. They BROKE products you'd paid for PLS on to get you to buy a new box and pay PLS again. Oh, TiVo, you make it so hard to love you.

At this point TiVo has pissed away all my loyalty. I fill out those TiVo surveys month after month and they NEVER listen.

David


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## steve614 (May 1, 2006)

davidahn said:


> Who wants to pay $14.99 a month FOREVER for a GUIDE service?!? We already bought the box and the software.




You really can't look at it as *just* guide service. You are not buying the software, only leasing it. 
It's no different than some of the other software programs out there for a computer. If you stop paying, the software stops working, or you get limited functionality.

I do agree with #2, however. TiVo could (and should) do a much better job for long time existing customers.


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## philhu (Apr 11, 2001)

davidahn said:


> 3. Feature removal. When they first made the TiVo app for iPhone/iPad, it was awesome: you could see the guide, your Now Playing, To Do list, everything, on my Premiere AND the S3. But somewhere about 1-2 years ago they REMOVED half the features for the S3. They BROKE products you'd paid for PLS on to get you to buy a new box and pay PLS again. Oh, TiVo, you make it so hard to love you.
> 
> At this point TiVo has pissed away all my loyalty. I fill out those TiVo surveys month after month and they NEVER listen.
> 
> David


I agree on this. They seem to remove features and not fix bugs EVER on products that are not current. I bought a DVR and discovered bugs. The fact they did not fix them while the product was current, even though they knew about them, is not my fault.

My pet peeve is their removal of the 'start paused program where I left off' when watching on a second tivo.

My second is the hdgui. The premiere was released with it half done. They PROMISED 'a future release' would complete it. On a premiere it will never be finished making the product look and feel half-assed.

Even if they had take the old sd gui stuff and displayed it in the hd gui as a window, showing the top icons and live play, I would have been happy.

As you, I used to fill out the surveys every month and nothing EVER got done with what I was asking for.

I know I went off topic, and I apologize, but I answered another post.


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## pdhenry (Feb 28, 2005)

davidahn said:


> And $500 for a new subscriber PLS?!? Do they NOT want people to buy PLS?


Why would they?


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

davidahn said:


> TiVo has always been their own worst enemy in terms of gaining market share.
> 
> 1. Gouging. Who wants to pay $14.99 a month FOREVER for a GUIDE service?!? We already bought the box and the software. I guarantee if service was $6/mo or $10/mo for a household, they'd get MILLIONS of new subscribers. And $500 for a new subscriber PLS?!? Do they NOT want people to buy PLS? They compare their $20/mo to cable's $20/mo HD DVR boxes, but that's a ridiculous comparison, since you didn't buy the cable box for $600.
> 
> ...


Loving a corporation is crazy, in fact I will go further and say being loyal to a corporation is even crazier. TiVo produces a product as consumers we can either buy it or not and the only reason to buy it is because we want the product and believe it is the best value we can buy or simple put we believe buying it is in our best interests.

Your whole statement boils down to TiVos cost too much. You want TiVo to provide their product for less and actually provide you with more than they are now (more support for old products). Pretty much I think that is what most people feel about everything or simple put consumers always want more for less.

The only reason TiVo would do either is if TiVo believed it was in their best interests to do so, or simple put if TiVo believed they would make more money doing so. So unless TiVo's management is crazy the current price point and service level is where they believe they can maximize profits.

I don't think the market for stand alone DVRs, given the current difficulties users have to be willing to deal with (self install & support, cable cards, tuning adapter, not working with Satellite, etc.) is very large. So frankly I think we are lucky TiVo is still even around at all (and I don't think they would be if it weren't for there cable company market). In the end it is just like every other product we can either buy it or not. Bi***ing about the cost will not change it but may make us feel better .


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## davidahn (Jun 6, 2005)

Sorry I brought up OT issues, but it kinda is the issue: a deal that isn't really a deal... that's on topic. Discussing whether to buy from a company that extorts existing users into buying new hardware by removing features from a product you bought AND asks you to abandon "lifetime" service you paid for and buy new service... that's on topic.

@atmuscarella, I agree the market for people OK with TiVo's business model (BUY hardware AND service) is small. People either buy hardware OR lease it, but NO ONE pays for maintenance, and NO ONE leases DVR software but us. Since not a lot of people are signing up for TiVo's business model, they need to either generate new revenue from existing customers or change their business model. I'm proposing the latter: the service fees are dangerously close to cable DVR lease pricing; MILLIONS have demonstrated acceptance of this model, and this is an opportunity to GROW their revenue base. Raise the fee to include hardware lease, or lower the fee for those who buy their hardware.

But TiVo insists instead on squeezing more money out of existing loyal customers by constantly asking us to abandon our investment in PLS. Sure, it was clear from the beginning PLS was for the lifetime of the product, but if we paid a BIG chunk up front (I've paid it TWICE - S3, Premiere, and I'm sure others have paid even more), we expect to not pay again for a GOOD LONG TIME. But TiVo continues to play chicken with PLS members: how many cool features do we have to add (great job on the Roamio), and how many features do we have to take away (ahem... S3 app features) to get you to give up the $800 you invested in PLS, and more importantly, pay through the nose AGAIN? And how many fake deals do we have to be disappointed by before we start ignoring them altogether?

A brief history lesson: Apple had the same business model from 1984-1997: premium pricing on premium products. Sales were 80-90% to repeat customers. They nearly went bankrupt until Steve Jobs returned in 1997 and 1) changed their business model (affordable pricing, still premium products) and 2) created new mass market product categories (mobile). No. 2 isn't easy, though they could make remote streaming a small extra charge while they tackle creating whole product categories. But No. 1 is SUPER easy: charge the SAME as cable: $20/mo for service PLUS hardware, or $6-10/mo for just service (1 box vs. household). The cable business has shown us what the market will bear, and aside from a few of us TiVo snobs, THIS AIN'T IT. (And if you couldn't tell, I'm not bearing it any more either.)


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## davidahn (Jun 6, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> In the end it is just like every other product we can either buy it or not. Bi***ing about the cost will not change it but may make us feel better .


You're right, of course, the consumer wants more for less, but the flip side is companies want to give you less for more. Apple, like TiVo, kept wishing people would pay more for their insanely great product, but very few did. As you say, the consumer has the final say. Lucky they're still around? Yes, I suppose, since I really do love my TiVo user experience. But TiVo can either continue to struggle like Apple ca. 1995-1997, or they can thrive by opening up new revenue streams like Apple 1997 on.

Am I b-tching? I suppose. But I really hope someone will listen, because I DON'T want to be orphaned. I DON'T want TiVo to die. But that doesn't mean I'll be fooled by misleading advertising or buy into their ill-conceived business model. I'm hoping they'll come to their senses and accept the proven price points the cable companies have already figured out for them.


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## CrispyCritter (Feb 28, 2001)

davidahn said:


> Am I b-tching? I suppose. But I really hope someone will listen, because I DON'T want to be orphaned. I DON'T want TiVo to die. But that doesn't mean I'll be fooled by misleading advertising or buy into their ill-conceived business model. I'm hoping they'll come to their senses and accept the proven price points the cable companies have already figured out for them.


Sorry, but you're completely ignoring economic reality. Over the past 14 years, TiVo has proven to themselves and their stockholders that their current income scheme and price points are substantially too LOW for TiVo to survive depending on the stand-alone market. And you want them to reduce the price points even further???

TiVo has been forced to abandon the stand-alone market as their future primary focus. Except for patent litigation, they haven't really made a profit at any time in the past 14 years (they broke even a couple of quarters). Their primary attention now is selling the TiVo software to cable companies.


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## philw1776 (Jan 19, 2002)

davidahn said:


> TiVo has always been their own worst enemy in terms of gaining market share.
> 
> 1. Gouging. Who wants to pay $14.99 a month FOREVER for a GUIDE service?!? We already bought the box and the software. I guarantee if service was $6/mo or $10/mo for a household, they'd get MILLIONS of new subscribers. And $500 for a new subscriber PLS?!? Do they NOT want people to buy PLS? They compare their $20/mo to cable's $20/mo HD DVR boxes, but that's a ridiculous comparison, since you didn't buy the cable box for $600.
> 
> ...


Loyal early TiVo customer since Jan 2001. Last box I bought was a Premier x4 again with Lifetime.
NETFLIX doesn't work as advertised. Can't connect pictures, etc. from my MAC because TiVo stopped supporting new MAC OS with Desktop. So the reasons other than HD that I bought the supposedly "everything" box aren't there as advertised.

They can stick their Romeo offer where the sun don't shine.


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## lujan (May 24, 2010)

philw1776 said:


> Loyal early TiVo customer since Jan 2001. Last box I bought was a Premier x4 again with Lifetime.
> NETFLIX doesn't work as advertised. Can't connect pictures, etc. from my MAC because TiVo stopped supporting new MAC OS with Desktop. So the reasons other than HD that I bought the supposedly "everything" box aren't there as advertised.
> 
> They can stick their Romeo offer where the sun don't shine.


Yes, I haven't seen any real good deals in a long time. I'm happy with my 3 Premieres (two with Lifetime). I never record more than 2 shows at a time and unless they start broadcasting in 4k, I see no reason to upgrade to the latest TiVo. I'll use my Premieres until they crash and even then, I may think about getting new parts rather than another TiVo?


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## g808 (Sep 14, 2006)

Maybe off topic, but seems to continue the flow of the thread. I'm disappointed we basically have to upgrade to a Roamio to get good UI performance. The HTML 5 UI on the Roamio is what should have been in the Premiere's HDUI from the start. I would have at least expected a free upgrade to the new UI on the Premiere. Forget the other stuff. My, and I'm sure many people's, complaint has been the poor UI performance. I don't think that's being unreasonable.


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## hershey4 (May 31, 2006)

It looks like they are looking for increased advertising revenue streams too. I see the new Premiere update triggerred more ads.

Often the internet business model is that paid subscribers receive less (none?) ads than free subscribers. Not so here...we are all in the same boat. I would pay more for less ads. (well... a little more $...not a lot). But if we just keep getting more and more ads as time goes on, I can see the subscriber base dwindle. 

I know I would get turned off and have to reconsider cable dvr (not thrilled with Premier overall and not willing to reinvest in Roamio means goodbye tivo if you continue to shove ads at me).


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## unitron (Apr 28, 2006)

g808 said:


> Maybe off topic, but seems to continue the flow of the thread. I'm disappointed we basically have to upgrade to a Roamio to get good UI performance. The HTML 5 UI on the Roamio is what should have been in the Premiere's HDUI from the start. I would have at least expected a free upgrade to the new UI on the Premiere. Forget the other stuff. My, and I'm sure many people's, complaint has been the poor UI performance. I don't think that's being unreasonable.


So you have to "upgrade" to an S5 to get what you should have had with an S4?

Sounds like the Microsoft way of doing things.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

g808 said:


> Maybe off topic, but seems to continue the flow of the thread. I'm disappointed we basically have to upgrade to a Roamio to get good UI performance. The HTML 5 UI on the Roamio is what should have been in the Premiere's HDUI from the start. I would have at least expected a free upgrade to the new UI on the Premiere. Forget the other stuff. My, and I'm sure many people's, complaint has been the poor UI performance. I don't think that's being unreasonable.





unitron said:


> So you have to "upgrade" to an S5 to get what you should have had with an S4?
> 
> Sounds like the Microsoft way of doing things.


The HDUI on the Roamio is still Flash based, as far as I know support for HTML 5 apps doesn't change the actual HDUI performance. The reality is very simple Premiere hardware is from 2009 or earlier and when running the HDUI it isn't going to be fast or perform like the Roamio EVER. So yes if someone wants faster hardware they have to upgrade. Or if you simple want a faster UI on the Premiere switch to the SDUI which is very fast/responsive.


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## g808 (Sep 14, 2006)

I figured someone would come with the old vs. new hardware. All I'm saying is that Tivo shouldn't have teased with a newer UI if the hardware couldn't handle it. It just feels like the UI on the Roamio is what the Premiere should have been. I can understand upgrading for 6 tuners or built in Stream capability, etc.


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

davidahn said:


> TiVo has always been their own worst enemy in terms of gaining market share.
> 
> 1. Gouging. Who wants to pay $14.99 a month FOREVER for a GUIDE service?!? We already bought the box and the software. I guarantee if service was $6/mo or $10/mo for a household, they'd get MILLIONS of new subscribers. And $500 for a new subscriber PLS?!? Do they NOT want people to buy PLS? They compare their $20/mo to cable's $20/mo HD DVR boxes, but that's a ridiculous comparison, since you didn't buy the cable box for $600.


Wait, PLS is a deal *compared to paying monthly*. You can't have both of them. 
(Plus, you're not paying JUST for the guide service, you are getting the sporadic software updates free too.)

BTW, I agree they're very expensive, BUT amortizing the *existing* high lifetime prices is STILL a deal in the long run compared to cable box hardware.


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