# IMPORTANT NOTICE: Your TiVo Series1 DVR will stop recording shows after September 29



## Seattle (Dec 13, 2001)

Did anyone else get this email today? 

"Dear Seattle,
I'm writing to alert you that after September 29th, your TiVo® Series1 DVR will not be able to create any new recordings.
TiVo is upgrading the data associated with all programming in order to provide superior program guide information to our subscribers. Unfortunately this new data does not work with our oldest device - the venerable TiVo Series1. As a result, while you will always be able to access your existing recordings, your Series1 DVR will make its last call to update the TiVo Guide on September 15th. This last call will include 14 days of program guide information, which will allow you to record shows through September 29th. After that date Season Passes will no longer record and the TiVo Guide will indicate that no program information is available.

We know that this is disappointing, and we feel terrible about relaying this news. We understand how much you rely on your TiVo Series1, and we appreciate you being a loyal TiVo owner. Please accept our apology. The TiVo Series1 was released in 1999 and last manufactured in 2002, with roughly 3,500 Series1 DVRs still in active service. They've had a great run and we're truly sorry to see them go. 

For this inconvenience, please accept a free $75 VISA prepaid card to use any way you would like1.
REDEEM NOW"


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

I did. I wish they would allow those of us who bought the very first Tivo in 1999 like I did with lifetime subscription to transfer the lifetime subscription to a Series 2 or something like that instead of the $75 dollar Visa card.


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## kiwiguy (Feb 27, 2003)

Yes. Just got the same. Not happy. 

I want my lifetime Series 1 transferred to a new TiVo. 
My Series 1 is still going strong.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

This is true. As expected TiVo is switching to Rovi for data. Unfortunately that new data is not compatible with S1 units. Considering the S1 units haven't been sold in almost 15 years, and lifetime only cost $200 back then, I think it's pretty generous of them to give people $75 for this. They just as easily could have said "too bad, so sad" and moved on.


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## Seattle (Dec 13, 2001)

dcstager said:


> I did. I wish they would allow those of us who bought the very first Tivo in 1999 like I did with lifetime subscription to transfer the lifetime subscription to a Series 2 or something like that instead of the $75 dollar Visa card.


I thought that some early TiVo buyers were able to do a one time lifetime transfer.


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## Seattle (Dec 13, 2001)

Dan203 said:


> This is true. As expected TiVo is switching to Rovi for data. Unfortunately that new data is not compatible with S1 units. Considering the S1 units haven't been sold in almost 15 years, and lifetime only cost $200 back then, I think it's pretty generous of them to give people $75 for this. They just as easily could have said "too bad, so sad" and moved on.


Is it $75 per lifetime series 1 TiVo?


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

There are third party guide servers that worked when Tivo was unavailable in Canada and UK and Australia and New Zealand, but I doubt the numbers are there for the programmers to resurrect these old workarounds.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Seattle said:


> I thought that some early TiVo buyers were able to do a one time lifetime transfer.


If it was purchased before Jan 2000 then you are allowed a one time transfer of lifetime to a new unit.


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## jtracy (Dec 20, 2002)

Yes, I received it too and wasn't happy. As a public relations expert, I feel they could have handled it slightly different with great results. The key issue is the product lifetime service GUARANTEE. They could have maintained goodwill by offering to do a one-time transfer of the license to make up for them discontinuing service on the hardware. That is a win-win.


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## dcstager (Feb 16, 2002)

Seattle said:


> I thought that some early TiVo buyers were able to do a one time lifetime transfer.


Yes, that was around the time the Series 3 came out. But what could it hurt to move the lifetime to a Series 2 from a Series 1 if you still have a lifetime on a Series 1?

I'm a cord cutter but keep the most basic of basic cable just so I can have an Internet package and the Series 1 is still working to record basic cable stuff for me like the local news and sports.

Oh, well. Complaining won't help me. Just venting here.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

You'd be lucky to get $75 for a S1 unit with lifetime. They're basically worthless these days. Very few people want a unit with 1 tuner that can only record SD.

How many other 15+ year old devices do you own that still work?


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

I called and my Grandfathered S1 (activated 12/1999) can have the lifetime service transferred, but the Bolt will cost $174.99 for 500GB and $249.99 for 1TB.


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## thyname (Dec 27, 2010)

In my opinion, $75 in a Visa prepaid is very generous for such an obsolete one tuner unit. It is also pretty dumb, as they could have offered $75 credit on the purchase of a new TiVo


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## jssmcarlo (Jul 21, 2015)

Mine is 15 years old & still going strong with original hard drive, etc. I don't use it much anymore, but still sad to see it end.


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## hytekjosh (Dec 4, 2010)

thyname said:


> In my opinion, $75 in a Visa prepaid is very generous for such an obsolete one tuner unit. It is also pretty dumb, as they could have offered $75 credit on the purchase of a new TiVo


agreed. so many companies launch a product these days and then 1-2 years later its obsolete or phased out and there are no refunds.


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## Seattle (Dec 13, 2001)

terryfoster said:


> I called and my Grandfathered S1 (activated 12/1999) can have the lifetime service transferred, but the Bolt will cost $174.99 for 500GB and $249.99 for 1TB.


I just called and got the same offer but my TiVo was activated in 2001.


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## jtracy (Dec 20, 2002)

Heres how TIVO could have addressed this and maintained better goodwill with its original customers:

--

Dear TiVo Series1 Consumer,

TiVo is in the process of switching data providers which provide your TiVo with its scheduling information. Unfortunately, the new data system will be incompatible with the TiVo Series1. This means that after September 29, your TiVo Series1 DVR will no longer be able to provide you with a list of upcoming shows or automatically schedule recordings of shows.

Thats the bad news. Now to the good news. 

As an original Series1 owner, you are a hero to us. You helped TiVo grow from its infant years into the global DVR leader it is today. So we held a series of staff meetings to address, what can we do to reward our longtime customers and help them during this transition? And heres what we came up with:

1) We are providing you with a $75 Visa gift card. You can spend this anywhere visa is accepted. Claim it here (LINK HERE).

2) We are making your LIFETIME license transferrable to any new/used TiVo you buy.

3) We are offering you 30% off of any TiVo bought from TiVo.com. Here is your one-time coupon code specifically for you: (COUPON CODE here).

Now we realize that some of you cant afford a new TiVo, even one with a discount. So here are some ways you can get one cheaper:

- Check out our factory refurbished TiVos at (LINK HERE). Like with any new TiVo, we will provide you with 30% off any of our factory refurbished TiVos.

- Here is a link to used TiVos being sold on eBay: (LINK HERE).

No matter where you get your TiVo from, we will transfer your old Lifetime license for you. Just call us at (NUMBER HERE).

Thank you for being a long time loyal customer. If you have any questions about this we have set up a special email address via (EMAIL ADDRESS HERE) to assist you. You can also call us at (NUMBER HERE).

We are here to make this transition smooth for you and were excited that you are about to discover the amazing benefits of a newer TiVo model!

--

That kind of letter would have gone a long way to create better goodwill and the whole process probably would have been complaint free. 

TiVo is an awesome company. I love them. I love their creativity and innovation. I hope they will work with Series1 customers to make this right. I don't expect non-series1 owners to be able to identify with the problem. But current Series1 owners, who haven't upgraded for whatever reason (medical bills, age, loss of job, etc.) can definitely identify with this and better understand the issue.


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## David Bott (Jan 1, 1999)

Thread on the topic with a place to ask questions to TiVo...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10967706#post10967706


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## jonw747 (Aug 2, 2015)

thyname said:


> In my opinion, $75 in a Visa prepaid is very generous for such an obsolete one tuner unit. It is also pretty dumb, as they could have offered $75 credit on the purchase of a new TiVo


I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume once the prepaid card is used, that customer would be ineligible to join a class action as they have essentially already accepted the offered settlement.

Also there's a fine line where if they treat S1 customers too shabbily, new customers will feel less inclined to spend $600 on lifetime, and they'll create bad PR.

If most S1 owners are able to transfer their lifetime and get $75 off a Bolt, that sounds like a pretty good deal.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

jonw747 said:


> I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume once the prepaid card is used, that customer would be ineligible to join a class action as they have essentially already accepted the offered settlement.


Plus TiVo moved most of us into an arbitration clause...

http://zatznotfunny.com/2013-08/opt-out-of-tivo-arbitration/


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Of course Series 1 owners won't be happy about the inconvenience, but the $75 visa was a nice touch I'd say.

Sure it's not directly towards another Tivo, but money is fungible. Even if it's spent on groceries, they're still "up" $75 to get the newer Tivo.

*For those of you pulling the trigger on Lifetime service transfers,* I would wait to see Ira's answers to the questions about possible future hardware in the Q&A


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jonw747 said:


> I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume once the prepaid card is used, that customer would be ineligible to join a class action as they have essentially already accepted the offered settlement.
> 
> Also there's a fine line where if they treat S1 customers too shabbily, new customers will feel less inclined to spend $600 on lifetime, and they'll create bad PR.
> 
> If most S1 owners are able to transfer their lifetime and get $75 off a Bolt, that sounds like a pretty good deal.


Class action for a 14 year old piece of electronics, give me a break, before this announcement you could not sell a Series 1 with lifetime and net $75 within the last year or so, if any class action was successful the owners of any Series 1 would lucky to get a $25 off any new TiVo and the lawyers would make a fortune.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

You could use the $75 to buy a lifetime S2.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

shwru980r said:


> You could use the $75 to buy a lifetime S2.


And still have some left over. There are several in the completed listings on eBay that sold for under $50.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

convenient they set a timeframe for Series 1 units to connect to be elegible, and that timeframe had closed before they sent the email out.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

thyname said:


> In my opinion, $75 in a Visa prepaid is very generous for such an obsolete one tuner unit. It is also pretty dumb, as they could have offered $75 credit on the purchase of a new TiVo


Totally agree. TiVo is being very generous to those people still using lifetime S1s. I don't really understand why anyone is even still using those units. I've got a couple Sony S1s (not lifetime) sitting in my garage collecting dust.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> convenient they set a timeframe for Series 1 units to connect to be elegible, and that timeframe had closed before they sent the email out.


Keeps people from digging old, unused, units out of the closet to get a free $75.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> Keeps people from digging old, unused, units out of the closet to get a free $75.


so? They owned them, they deserve the buyout just like any other owner IMHO.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> convenient they set a timeframe for Series 1 units to connect to be elegible, and that timeframe had closed before they sent the email out.





Dan203 said:


> Keeps people from digging old, unused, units out of the closet to get a free $75.


Agreed. I'm sure there's more than a few electronics hoarders with 2 or 3 Series 1 units gathering dust in a closet. By setting a time limit in the recent past, you ensure you're actually compensating affected customers, and not giving away free money to people who have already abandoned the platform.

The Series 1 platform is beyond outdated. If I owned one, I'd be happy that support for the device had lasted this long. $75 in free money is an unnecessary bonus. Life's too short to agonize over a company dropping support for a consumer electronics device that is at least 14-15 years old.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> so? They owned them, they deserve the buyout just like any other owner IMHO.


If they've already come to terms with the fact that their lifetimed S1 units are no longer worth using and therefore haven't had them in service for a period of time, then why should TiVo compensate them for those units? Lifetime service is only valid if the user chooses to use it. If the user has already voluntarily stopped using the unit, then they shouldn't have any standing to complain about TiVo no longer being able to provide lifetime service to the units.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

what's different about bout the new data stream? that the S1's can't handle?


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## jth tv (Nov 15, 2014)

Seattle said:


> Unfortunately this new data does not work with our oldest device - the venerable TiVo Series1.


Hard to believe. There is not much to tv schedule data. Show, Date, Time, Channel, Duration, I suppose some other stuff. Why would it be that difficult ?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Ask Ira your questions for the next round of Q&A:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=542602


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

ajwees41 said:


> what's different about bout the new data stream? that the S1's can't handle?


I believe the new data requires a software update for all units to function. The S1 is running a really old version of the software so I suspect that they simply didn't want to go through the trouble of updating that version to make the new data work.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

This was before my time with Tivo, but I vaguely recall a story about Tivo losing the Series 1 source code and no longer being able to update it? I have no idea why, how, or if it was true.

I recall something about that coming up when it came time to fix... was it a Y2K bug, or a time zone thing? But someone made their own hack which saved the day and kept Series 1 in business.

It might be unrelated.


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## jtracy (Dec 20, 2002)

Interestingly enough, TiVo did say how many ACTIVE Series1 users there are - 3,500. With more than 7 million subscribers overall, it's probably not worth their time or effort to keep updating Series1 every time there is a change requiring a software update. This will allow them to move beyond the good ole' days. 

A big thanks to those who posted that they contact TiVo, which agreed to do a lifetime service transfer. It would have been nice if they had included this info in the letter. But it's nice to see that they are being responsive and helpful to those who do contact them.


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## a56567go (Apr 12, 2008)

fwiw, TiVo kindly offered to transfer my Series I lifetime service to another unit. 

"If you have any questions, please contact the TiVo Series1 Hotline at 1-877-407-1983."


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## JZC (Jul 24, 2007)

jtracy said:


> TiVo did say how many ACTIVE Series1 users there are - 3,500.


I think this is key here. The one-time expense of a $75 gift card to those users (about $250k) is far less than the long-term cost of continuing support. The guide data could be translated/converted at the server but then that code would have to be written, tested, and supported forever. I suspect there are a number of other costs associated with maintaining support for those 3500 users (dial-up modems, etc).

I know people have been having success transferring the lifetime to another box. I'm hoping that opportunity stays available for a while because I already have lifetime on my Roamio but I would love to be able to transfer my Series 1 lifetime to whatever I get in the next year or two.


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## kiwiguy (Feb 27, 2003)

FYI, I was NOT able to transfer the lifetime from my S1 (Aug 2000). 
I called and was told only the grandfathered units from Jan 2000 were eligible.

Has anyone with a S1 purchased after Jan 2000 been able to transfer their lifetime to a new box since the announcement today? And if so how did you do it? Do you need to purchase a new box first?

Thanks!


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> This was before my time with Tivo, but I vaguely recall a story about Tivo losing the Series 1 source code and no longer being able to update it? I have no idea why, how, or if it was true.
> 
> I recall something about that coming up when it came time to fix... was it a Y2K bug, or a time zone thing? But someone made their own hack which saved the day and kept Series 1 in business.
> 
> It might be unrelated.


I think it was the daylight savings change.


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

Dan203 said:


> I think it was the daylight savings change.


Ahhh right, in 2007 they extended DST by several weeks. This was more recent than I thought.


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## mr.unnatural (Feb 2, 2006)

If anyone is still using a series 1 Tivo then you're gotten more than your moneys' worth out of it. I don't understand why anyone is complaining, except that some people just like to complain. A series 1 is basically useless for recording current digital programming. It's SD video with just monaural audio, IIRC. It requires a digital converter just to tune in channels. I'm surprised Tivo has supported them this long. I believe the first series 1 units appeared about 17 years ago, which is far longer than most consumer products are supported. I recall paying just $99 for my first S1 Tivo and another $99 for lifetime service. A $75 credit is more than generous, IMHO.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

mr.unnatural said:


> If anyone is still using a series 1 Tivo then you're gotten more than your moneys' worth out of it. I don't understand why anyone is complaining, except that some people just like to complain.


They're probably complaining because "Lifetime" doesn't mean what they thought it means. Having said that, I get why TiVo wouldn't or couldn't invest the resources now and later to keep the platform going. I can't tell you for certain how I'd feel as I'm not personally impacted but, in general, any tech I have around here that's 15 years old - well, I'd gladly trade it in for $75. Then again, my Palm V does retain some sentimental value.


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

Easy enough to get a lifetimed S2 on ebay for $75 or less, or a S3 for not much more.


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## caughey (May 26, 2007)

I suppose the S1s will still be able to record by time? I don't know what that would look like in the Now Playing list.


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## WVZR1 (Jul 31, 2008)

kiwiguy said:


> FYI, I was NOT able to transfer the lifetime from my S1 (Aug 2000).
> I called and was told only the grandfathered units from Jan 2000 were eligible.
> 
> Has anyone with a S1 purchased after Jan 2000 been able to transfer their lifetime to a new box since the announcement today? And if so how did you do it? Do you need to purchase a new box first?
> ...


I wasn't able to get anything from my S1 that was later in '00 but I didn't push the issue either. If I could get a "lifetime" transfer for it that would be an excuse to maybe buy! Anyone have any conversations that went well?


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

Hm. Ok. I'm going to try to answer the question from others basically asking, "Why are Series 1 owners complaining about 16 year old hardware? TiVo is giving you more than your ancient electronics are worth."

I have and still use my Series 1 TiVo with the lifetime sub in my bedroom (I have a TiVo Premier in my family room). The Series 1 still works great! Yes, it is SD, but funny enough the TV in my bedroom is still SD (yes, I know, I know). Anyway, no issues with the old Philips TiVo!

So my complaint is that everything works fine and dandy, and I paid for a *LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION*, not a 15 year subscription. Lifetime means lifetime of the unit, *not* "whenever TiVo decides they don't want to provide support".

So, fine. TiVo wants to stop support. Ok. Then let me transfer my lifetime subscription to a new device. I'll pay for the upgrade...which, they ARE discounting ($75 off for the 500 GB Bolt, and $100 off for the 1 TB Bolt). If TiVo does that, I'm fine. If not, then I'm not fine. I think it's BS to not honor their lifetime subscription.

Keep in mind that us early adopters are what helped TiVo get started. I know I got several people to buy into TiVo once I showed them what it does. So for everyone thinking that Series 1 owners are getting some great deal...I beg to differ.


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## jtracy (Dec 20, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Hm. Ok. I'm going to try to answer the question from others basically asking, "Why are Series 1 owners complaining about 16 year old hardware? TiVo is giving you more than your ancient electronics are worth."
> 
> I have and still use my Series 1 TiVo with the lifetime sub in my bedroom (I have a TiVo Premier in my family room). The Series 1 still works great! Yes, it is SD, but funny enough the TV in my bedroom is still SD (yes, I know, I know). Anyway, no issues with the old Philips TiVo!
> 
> ...


 Very well said.

Your post is further relevant because you are a current Series1 user. Those who aren't can't relate to the situation. You did a good job of explaining your position and the position of other current Series1 users. Thank you.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Look at it from TiVo's perspective. Do you think that they had any idea that the electronic components that they put into their little glorified Linux boxes would still be running after 15 years of 24/7 use? They certainly didn't plan to still be supporting those boxes 15 years later and from an accounting standpoint, they've been losing money on those units for nearly a decade.

So while it's great that S1 lifetime owners were some of the early evangelists who helped get the company off the ground, anyone who is still using a lifetimed S1 is actually damaging the company and costing them money, and we all know that TiVo has struggled financially, so those S1 lifetimers still in service are no longer heros to the company, they're actually leeches.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

DevdogAZ said:


> Look at it from TiVo's perspective. Do you think that they had any idea that the electronic components that they put into their little glorified Linux boxes would still be running after 15 years of 24/7 use? They certainly didn't plan to still be supporting those boxes 15 years later and from an accounting standpoint, they've been losing money on those units for nearly a decade.


Then don't sell lifetime subscriptions. Last I checked, I'm the consumer. I paid for my device and lifetime service. The fact that it still runs is a testament to how well Philips made the device.



> So while it's great that S1 lifetime owners were some of the early evangelists who helped get the company off the ground, anyone who is still using a lifetimed S1 is actually damaging the company and costing them money, and we all know that TiVo has struggled financially, so those S1 lifetimers still in service are no longer heros to the company, they're actually leeches.


I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you. I got several people to buy their TiVo devices. I purchased a TiVo Humax for my family room, and then replaced that with a TiVo Premier. I paid for monthly service on both of those units. Now, somehow I - and other S1 owners - are leeches? It's not my fault that the device is still working and still in operation. Lifetime is lifetime...or at least it should be. I didn't create the plan or the agreement. TiVo did that. I'm not stealing anything from TiVo. I paid for it.

...and why should I put myself in TiVo's place? I'm the consumer, not the manufacturer/vendor!


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## bobwojo (Jan 9, 2011)

I got it, they are only offering me $75 for 4 TIVO's. 

They call this an "inconvenience"


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## DancnDude (Feb 7, 2001)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Then don't sell lifetime subscriptions.


They _don't _sell Lifetime subscriptions anymore. They are called "All-in" now.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

bobwojo said:


> I got it, they are only offering me $75 for 4 TIVO's.
> 
> They call this and "inconvenience"


Wow!

Wait. You have FOUR working TiVo Series 1 devices that have all been calling in? That's incredible!


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

DancnDude said:


> They _don't _sell Lifetime subscriptions anymore. They are now called "All-in" now.


I'll rephrase: Then they shouldn't have sold lifetime subscriptions.


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## Sevenfeet (Jun 24, 2000)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Hm. Ok. I'm going to try to answer the question from others basically asking, "Why are Series 1 owners complaining about 16 year old hardware? TiVo is giving you more than your ancient electronics are worth."
> 
> I have and still use my Series 1 TiVo with the lifetime sub in my bedroom (I have a TiVo Premier in my family room). The Series 1 still works great! Yes, it is SD, but funny enough the TV in my bedroom is still SD (yes, I know, I know). Anyway, no issues with the old Philips TiVo!
> 
> ...


I'm reading this thread and shaking my head. How many of us have any piece of high tech still in production in our house after a decade? Most of us don't keep our phones more than 3 years. Honestly it's amazing that these old TiVos are still working at all after all these years and they are old and functionally obsolete since all they can do is record standard-def TV with analog audio. Standard-def TVs disappeared from store shelves nearly a decade ago.

Look, the Series 1 was fun while it lasted. And boy did it last. And yes, we all had at least one. But I had no illusions that Lifetime meant when the Sun goes red giant and destroys the Earth.

You want to help TiVo? Buy new stuff. Keeping old TiVos going just for the sake of doing so only saps needed resources and money out of their coffers.


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## skyboy9 (Sep 4, 2009)

terryfoster said:


> I called and my Grandfathered S1 (activated 12/1999) can have the lifetime service transferred, but the Bolt will cost $174.99 for 500GB and $249.99 for 1TB.


I have a grandfathered S1 as well.


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## bobwojo (Jan 9, 2011)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Wow!
> 
> Wait. You have FOUR working TiVo Series 1 devices that have all been calling in? That's incredible!


Yup, Will probably switch to a DTV Genie. 5 tuners and support for 4 TV's

Will probably cut my electric bill in half.


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## IraF (Jan 22, 2002)

Bought my S1 from Mercata on 11/3/2000, which I guess is too late for any special consideration.

Bought Lifetime Sub a few months later. Upgraded it to a massive hard drive in 2003.

It's still connected and functioning. And apparently I still have the paper receipts!

I use it occasionally to augment my dual tuner DVR. I pad all recordings by 2 minutes on either end, which will force the DVR to use two tuners for adjacent shows - even when they are on the same channel.

While you can always find re-airings of shows on basic and premium cable, they are virtually never available on network TV. So when I have padding conflicts, or a 3rd show to record that I can't find any other way, I might press the S1 into service, if only to record a few minutes of the overlap, manually. (Oh, I can find shows at alt.binaries.tv, iTunes, Amazon, etc., but I only resort to that when I have no other choice.)

S1 is also just fine for recording news - and, it's especially fine for recording long awards shows I may or may never watch, but don't want hogging space on my DVR. I used the S1 to record dozens of hours of the DNC and RNC conventions recently.

I could get a souped up Comcast Xfinity X1 that has 4 tuners - but there are things I don't like about the X1.

Apparently the S1 will still manually record, and manual recording doesn't particularly scare me, just as it probably doesn't scare any of the earliest adopters. Weren't we all likely already time-shifting on VCRs?

I started manual time-shifting in 1989 on VCR, which did not intimidate me in the slightest, and manual recordings on the S1 are still far easier to set up than they were on VCRs.

Even after I got the S1, I still used VCRs to augment it - sometimes 2 VCRs and the S1 going at once.

So one can think of my supplementing HD/DVR with S1 as equivalent to the days when I supplemented S1 with VCRs.

One silver lining - I will no longer have to worry about keeping the phone line near the TiVo connected.

Anyway - that's the story from one of the remaining 3500 people in our solar system still using an S1.

I've been watching too much TV for too many years!


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

Well, I was planning on sending my S1 to Goodwill with the hopes that it would still find usefulness for someone else. At this point, though, it'll just go straight to the electronics recycling.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> ....So my complaint is that everything works fine and dandy, and I paid for a *LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION*, not a 15 year subscription. Lifetime means lifetime of the unit, *not* "whenever TiVo decides they don't want to provide support".
> 
> So, fine. TiVo wants to stop support. Ok. Then let me transfer my lifetime subscription to a new device. I'll pay for the upgrade...which, they ARE discounting ($75 off for the 500 GB Bolt, and $100 off for the 1 TB Bolt). If TiVo does that, I'm fine. If not, then I'm not fine. I think it's BS to not honor their lifetime subscription.


I think tivo is going above and beyond. I'm a little surprised tivo is going to support s2 units.

Customers who purchased a LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION have the option of transferring lifetime service to a replacement unit. Great deal. People who purchased *product* lifetime service get $75.

People paid $200 for service, they're getting back $75. Annual cost is $10-$13 *per year.*

$75 is far more then your unit was worth, if you wanted to sell it. $75 is more then enough to purchase a replacement S2 unit, with LS, on Ebay. $75 will probably cover at least half the cost of buying a Tivo HD, with LS on ebay.

Product lifetime doesn't just mean when your unit falls apart. It also occurs when a company EOL s a product. When the product is past its useful life.

The S1, as sold, needs dial up. It can't record OTA. Analog cable is history in an increasing number of systems. Few, if any, current boxes are supported via I/R. The box is SD only.

It's possible part of the upgrade will require updating the data base on our units. Maybe the S1 units don't have the hardware to accommodate it. $75 per active unit is probably a better allocation of resources for tivo. Customers who are happy using old equipment can use the money to upgrade to a S2 unit.

JMO, the customers who got the short end of the stick were the people who paid $$$ for the first S3 unit. They never got the M card support promised when they bought their unit. They never got QAM mapping for encrypted channels, which was implied in the original material. They didn't get an update to allow reception of mp4 channels.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

lew said:


> I think tivo is going above and beyond. I'm a little surprised tivo is going to support s2 units.
> 
> Customers who purchased a LIFETIME SUBSCRIPTION have the option of transferring lifetime service to a replacement unit. Great deal. People who purchased *product* lifetime service get $75.
> 
> ...


But if Tivo does this for S2 units next year, I'm right back where I started. If Tivo gets to determine what Lifetime is, who's to say that the Series 3 and HDs aren't next?

Many people have SD TVs and SD cable boxes which the S1 is controlling.

Plus, the value of an S2 unit is $120. I don't think $75 is going to cover it.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

BobCamp1 said:


> Plus, the value of an S2 unit is $120. I don't think $75 is going to cover it.


Several recent eBay auctions for lifetime Series 2 dual tuner and single tuner models sold for about $50, including shipping. You can find a few selling for $100 or so in the past few months, but $50, including shipping appears to be the norm.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

DancnDude said:


> They _don't _sell Lifetime subscriptions anymore. They are called "All-in" now.





MajorHavoc83 said:


> I'll rephrase: Then they shouldn't have sold lifetime subscriptions.


Hindsight certainly is 20/20, isn't it. 

Shame on TiVo for not having foreseen this issue back in 1999. Maybe they were too focused on the Y2K crisis...


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

BobCamp1 said:


> But if Tivo does this for S2 units next year, I'm right back where I started. If Tivo gets to determine what Lifetime is, who's to say that the Series 3 and HDs aren't next?
> 
> Many people have SD TVs and SD cable boxes which the S1 is controlling.
> 
> Plus, the value of an S2 unit is $120. I don't think $75 is going to cover it.


If you read the TiVo T&C you would see that removing the cover of any TiVo is against their policy, and some Series 1 units had a seal on the cover. I don't think anybody has a running Series 1 with lifetime and the original drive still in their unit, so just because TiVo never stopped us from changing out the hard drives, does not mean they can't stop us. TiVo could clam that the Lifetime of any Series 1 ended when the hard drive failed, or was replaced, the $75 TiVo is giving Series 1 owners is fair, very fair, unless someone with a Series 1 that has been running (calling in) for the last 14 or more years and is still on the original drive, and never had the cover removed, anybody like that please tell us.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

Sevenfeet said:


> But I had no illusions that Lifetime meant when the Sun goes red giant and destroys the Earth.


Lifetime means as long as the hardware is working, and mine does...along with 3,500 other users. Once again, it's not my fault that my S1 works great and TiVo offered a lifetime sub.



> You want to help TiVo? Buy new stuff. Keeping old TiVos going just for the sake of doing so only saps needed resources and money out of their coffers.


Firstly, it's *not* my responsibility to help TiVo. Secondly, I bought 2 other TiVo units, and I pay a monthly subscription for those. So, I suppose I am helping TiVo...just like you suggested.

Look. I already said that I'd be okay with this *if* TiVo let me buy a new unit and transfer my lifetime sub over to it. Otherwise, not only would I have to buy a new unit, but I'd be on the hook for yet another monthly (or annual) fee. That doesn't really fit all that well into my monthly budget.

With all due respect, please stop trying to rationalize my situation with thoughts of, "you already got your money's worth", and, "it's 16 years old, move on".


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## jssmcarlo (Jul 21, 2015)

lessd said:


> I don't think anybody has a running Series 1 with lifetime and the original drive still in their unit


I do.


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## bigjohn (Mar 4, 2002)

I didn't get the email, can someone post the redemption link?


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Lifetime means as long as the hardware is working, and mine does...along with 3,500 other users. Once again, it's not my fault that my S1 works great and TiVo offered a lifetime sub.


*Product* lifetime ends when tivo decides the model has reached the end of it's product life.

I understand some people thought the original lifetime meant the owners lifetime. I understand some people think product lifetime means as long as you can get the unit to work. As sold the unit requires dialup. It won't accept digital signals. It won't handle HD. The recording capacity, as sold, is limited by today's standards. Tivo isn't eol the model out of spite. Tivo is changing guide data vendors. It's either not possible to run the new guide data on the old platform or it's not worth the effort (to tivo) to get it to work. Tivo said the S1 units have reached the end of the products lifetime.

My first though was to offer a choice of the $75 or $100 credit toward a new tivo purchase. I now realize the $100 offer toward a new purchase won't not do anything to appease unhappy customers.

One poster said tivo is offering the minimum compensation. I don't agree. Minimum would be zero. People got service for 10-15 years. Tivo is refunding 37.5% of the cost of service. More then fair, if you understand exactly what was promised by the term lifetime service.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

jssmcarlo said:


> I do.


Here's the question: Why? Didn't the original S1 units only have about 14 hours of SD capacity? Why would you still be running a unit with such limited utility?


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

bigjohn said:


> I didn't get the email, can someone post the redemption link?


Unfortunately, no. The redemption link is coded so it is tied to a specific S1 TiVo/owner. If someone posted that, they'd be giving you their personal link.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

lew said:


> My first though was to offer a choice of the $75 or $100 credit toward a new tivo purchase. I now realize the $100 offer toward a new purchase won't not do anything to appease unhappy customers.


Allow the 3,500 S1 users that wish to take advantage of TiVo's offer to transfer their lifetime sub, or at the very least, provide a one-time reduced rate on the "all-in" plan.

I'm happy to buy a Bolt - especially with the discount that is being offered. I just can't justify (in my monthly budget, that is) buying yet another monthly subscription.

Is that too much to ask?


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## BigJimOutlaw (Mar 21, 2004)

IF the hardware is completely original, those S1 owners have a slight point. They also won the techno-lottery.

But for the vast majority of them, the box is only working through artificial means... replaced hard drives and power supplies and such. That's literally not even tivo hardware anymore. Box openers don't have a credible standing dictating the definition of "lifetime of the box", after deliberately exploiting opportunities for 15 years, most likely multiple times over by this point.

For those people at the very least, the game is done and $75 is more than reasonable. Get a lifetimed S2 with it before their price goes up.


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## jssmcarlo (Jul 21, 2015)

DevdogAZ said:


> Here's the question: Why? Didn't the original S1 units only have about 14 hours of SD capacity? Why would you still be running a unit with such limited utility?


Mine came with 30 hrs. I didn't know anything about replacing hard drives & such back then. Once I knew you could do that, I had newer TiVo models for my primary recordings, so I figured there was no point putting any money into it for that. But as long as it was working, I figured I might as well keep it going & recorded a show here or there on it. I was also kinda curious to see how long the hard drive would keep working.


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Allow the 3,500 S1 users that wish to take advantage of TiVo's offer to transfer their lifetime sub, or at the very least, provide a one-time reduced rate on the "all-in" plan.
> 
> I'm happy to buy a Bolt - especially with the discount that is being offered. I just can't justify (in my monthly budget, that is) buying yet another monthly subscription.
> 
> Is that too much to ask?


I'm kind of wondering if TiVo is gauging the response to their current offer, with a backup plan of swooping in at the last minute with some "surprise and delight" Plan B (basically giving folks something like what you're asking for).

I know it's only been one day since TiVo announced this, but I had expected more upset Series1 folks in the thread here, which doesn't bode well for TiVo changing their original plan, IMO.

I'm surprised TiVo only gave a little more than a 30-day notice. That seems a little short for some folks to find a replacement solution, IMO.


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## markjrenna (Mar 23, 2006)

What nerve! My TV manufacturer should have given me $500 off since I have a 15 year old SD TV for a new HD TV! Some nerve they didn't!


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm a still-in-use Series1 owner (Sony, original 30GB drive), and I'm surprised things lasted this long -- been waiting for the other shoe to drop since well before the Rovi acquisition. My unit's power supply is on its last legs anyhow; when I moved a few years back I thought the unit was done, but after three days hooked up to power it was able to stay up. Oh, and I'm not driving a CRT TV with it -- I've got an HD TV anyhow, even if none of my broadcast content comes in that way.

I'm using a GGray cable* to have it control a Comcast DTA and was dreading the possibility their transition to MPEG4 would obsolete my unit anyhow if the new DTA was unsupported/had RF remote or didn't allow for a cable plugin, as it was definitely unstable when I used a blaster.

What will I do? Not sure, to be honest. I'm paying for Comcast's 'secret' super-cheap Broadcast Basic cable package, but OTA is a mixed option in the mountainous area I live in. Not sure a Series 2 is a worthwhile idea, but my wife dislikes that they got rid of 3x FF w/captions -- yes, there's a newer option they have, but it's not as fast. For various reasons DirecTV might be an easy option if I don't want to give Comcast more money. A Series2 would hit many of my high points, but do I want to have it go unsupported in a year?

Compared to the anger from others in this thread, I'm not pleased but not upset, either. If they really wanted to screw Series1 owners I'm sure they could come up with some way to cause units to brick themselves over a series of months, especially given the age of the hardware. The arbitration means they've got the legal angle figured out, and it's quite possible hardware isn't their future anyhow, now.

Keep in mind, angry Series 1 owners -- it's unlikely you'll create as much negative regard for TiVo as you might have created positive regard in the past, given the replies from less tech-laggard folks in this thread. Losing 3,500 customers, some of whom have even said they owe TiVo nothing, is not a major loss for TiVo, and it's even less of one if they abandon hardware.

*Not sure I have any other posts given one comment I saw, but could've sworn I posted in a few places vs. either that cable or a debug request from Tivo back a few years.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

lessd said:


> If you read the TiVo T&C you would see that removing the cover of any TiVo is against their policy.... TiVo could clam that the Lifetime of any Series 1 ended when the hard drive was replaced.


So Bolt and Roamio users who paid for lifetime/all-in and have already upgraded their hard drive are idiots, because Tivo can claim their lifetimes have already ended?

I'm not surprised the S1 is not supported. But giving less than 6 weeks notice and giving market value instead of replacement cost is rubbing their 15-year-old loyal customers the wrong way.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

BigJimOutlaw said:


> IF the hardware is completely original, those S1 owners have a slight point. They also won the techno-lottery.
> 
> But for the vast majority of them, the box is only working through artificial means... replaced hard drives and power supplies and such. That's literally not even tivo hardware anymore. Box openers don't have a credible standing dictating the definition of "lifetime of the box", after deliberately exploiting opportunities for 15 years, most likely multiple times over by this point.
> 
> For those people at the very least, the game is done and $75 is more than reasonable. Get a lifetimed S2 with it before their price goes up.


I can put in the original hard drive if it makes you feel any better. The rest of it is OEM.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

DevdogAZ said:


> Here's the question: Why? Didn't the original S1 units only have about 14 hours of SD capacity? Why would you still be running a unit with such limited utility?


There was a 30 hour unit. Also those hours were calculated using the systems lowest quality setting, which was almost unusable. If you used High you only got about 10 hours of recordings on a 30 hour unit.

IIRC the 30 hour unit only had a 20GB HDD in it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

jssmcarlo said:


> I do.


You have run your Series 1 for at least 14 years with the original drive, and never taken off the cover ??


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

aristoBrat said:


> I'm surprised TiVo only gave a little more than a 30-day notice. That seems a little short for some folks to find a replacement solution, IMO.


If TiVo were in control of the timeline, I'd agree that they should have given more notice. But the deadline has been thrust upon them by the fact that the Gracenote contract ended but the Rovi purchase was not yet finalized, so they didn't know if/when the switchover to the new data would take place. I also suspect there were internal discussions about whether to take steps to allow the S1 units to keep operating, or whether there was some way they could get out of the S1 PLS agreements. So now that the data switchover date is known, TiVo didn't have the luxury of giving S1 owners 90 days (or more) notice. It's simply the card they were dealt and I think they handled it the best way they could, at least for the purposes of the company. It may not have been the best option from the standpoint of an S1 owner, but the company has to make the decision that's best for the company.


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

The S1 ceased to function with guide data for OTA after the digital transition and there wasn't a supported method to change the channels on an OTA digital converter box for manual recordings. Lifetime OTA S1 users were not compensated in any way for this.

The difference here is that instead of the TV transmission signal changing, the guide transmission data is changing. Similarly, Tivo did not want to send a software update to the S1 to allow it to control the OTA converter boxes.

It seems as though there is a precedent for this action.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

shwru980r said:


> The S1 ceased to function with guide data for OTA after the digital transition and there wasn't a supported method to change the channels on an OTA digital converter box for manual recordings. Lifetime OTA S1 users were not compensated in any way for this.
> 
> The difference here is that instead of the TV transmission signal changing, the guide transmission data is changing. Similarly, Tivo did not want to send a software update to the S1 to allow it to control the OTA converter boxes.
> 
> It seems as though there is a precedent for this action.


Not really. One of them was not under TiVo's control and the other is.


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## jssmcarlo (Jul 21, 2015)

lessd said:


> You have run your Series 1 for at least 14 years with the original drive, and never taken off the cover ??


Yes (15 years in July). By the time I knew the hard drive could be upgraded, I wasn't using it much anymore (had newer ones doing most recording), so wasn't going to put any money into it for that or to fix anything. Still going strong, just got a good one I guess.


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## bearcat2000 (Aug 13, 2005)

I threw my S2 with lifetime away years ago. Like anybody should be watching SD anymore. Get with the times people.


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## bigjohn (Mar 4, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Unfortunately, no. The redemption link is coded so it is tied to a specific S1 TiVo/owner. If someone posted that, they'd be giving you their personal link.


Oh ok, I'll contact TiVo about getting links for my two lifetime service plans.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

bearcat2000 said:


> I threw my S2 with lifetime away years ago. Like anybody should be watching SD anymore. Get with the times people.


Excellent! You give me your credit card info, and I'll go buy the upgrades for the TV & TiVo in my bedroom. My family room is all set, though, so I'll cut you a break.

It's so great that people can tell me how to spend my hard earned money.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

markjrenna said:


> What nerve! My TV manufacturer should have given me $500 off since I have a 15 year old SD TV for a new HD TV! Some nerve they didn't!


You're making a false equivalence. Your SD TV still works just fine. The fact that the TV manufacturer introduced new technology didn't break your old TV. However, the 3,500 customers with S1 devices will only have a partially working unit.

See how that's different?


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Excellent! You give me your credit card info, and I'll go buy the upgrades for the TV & TiVo in my bedroom. My family room is all set, though, so I'll cut you a break.
> 
> It's so great that people can tell me how to spend my hard earned money.


TiVo and lifetime has always been a really good deal because you can transfer (sell) the lifetime to another user.

If you time it right (and I have done a pretty good job) you can sell and old TiVo to cover the service cost of the new TiVo.

I think the only TiVo that I really overpaid for was the OLED S3 that I got Christmas the year it was released. MAN, I paid a mint for that thing, but it was awesome!

I have my Roamio and my Premiere lifetime units left... I thought about upgrading the Premiere to a Bolt but even the "Pro" version isn't very intriguing to me yet. Before the Premiere looses much more value, I will likely sell and replace it with a Mini - maybe they will release a Bolt Mini soon? 

Anyway - keeping these units so long really allows you to cost average down the price, but you have to build residual value into that calculation. $75 is certainly more then they are worth on the open market, so I think TiVo is really doing this group a solid.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I can't believe that people are complaining about this. If you look at mobile phones and networks, or MPEG-2 cable boxes, or other technologies, they have had FAR shorter lives than these things. They are so beyond obsolete at this point, and have been for 6-8 YEARS now. The S3 units are looking very long in the tooth right now, and the very original S3 units don't work on FIOS or many Comcast systems now because of MPEG-4, and people are complaining about S1s that only work on a handful of analog TV systems or with some kludgy cable box blasting system and predate the S3's by 5 years? People are unbelievable.



Dan203 said:


> There was a 30 hour unit. Also those hours were calculated using the systems lowest quality setting, which was almost unusable. If you used High you only got about 10 hours of recordings on a 30 hour unit.
> 
> IIRC the 30 hour unit only had a 20GB HDD in it.


How technology has changed. I has a single recording that was 111GB the other day.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

Bigg said:


> How technology has changed. I has a single recording that was 111GB the other day.


The Bolt only comes with a 500GB drive, so you'd only be able to get 4 of those bad boys on a brand new Bolt.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

lew said:


> *Product* lifetime ends when tivo decides the model has reached the end of it's product life.


Is this documented somewhere or is it an assumption? In any event, it may not be reasonable for a consumer to come to that conclusion - I'd be curious to see the outcome of a case brought to arbitration.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

I can't believe anyone would find enough value in a TiVo S1, released 17 years ago, to actually hire a lawyer and sue. And if they did I couldn't imagine the judgment would be more then the $75 TiVo is already offering. Like I said these things cost max $1,200 when brand new and most people paid significantly less then that for them. The fact that anyone is even upset about this is really strange to me.


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## Dan203 (Apr 17, 2000)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Excellent! You give me your credit card info, and I'll go buy the upgrades for the TV & TiVo in my bedroom. My family room is all set, though, so I'll cut you a break.
> 
> It's so great that people can tell me how to spend my hard earned money.


If you've got a 4 tuner Premier, Roamio or Bolt in the family room then you could just put a Mini in the bedroom. They regularly have sales on refurbs for between $60-$80, so your $75 gift card would cover most/all of the cost. You can get a cable for the Mini that will allow it to hook to an SDTV for about $4 on eBay.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Dan203 said:


> I can't believe anyone would find enough value in a TiVo S1, released 17 years ago, to actually hire a lawyer and sue. And if they did I couldn't imagine the judgment would be more then the $75 TiVo is already offering. Like I said these things cost max $1,200 when brand new and most people paid significantly less then that for them. The fact that anyone is even upset about this is really strange to me.


No one has to sue. TiVo forced most of us into a documented arbitration clause with a defined process. And residual value isn't the issue, it's the possible breach of contract -- I'd like to believe the appropriate judgement would be another model with service. However, I agree most won't bother and all definitely got their money's worth.



> If you have an issue with a TiVo product or service, please call customer service at 1-877-367-8486. If you are not satisfied with the result and wish to seek further action, this dispute resolution provision provides for all disputes between us to be resolved in binding arbitration or small claims court.
> 
> [...]
> 
> The American Arbitration Association (AAA) will administer the arbitration, using the AAA's Commercial Arbitration Rules and Supplementary Procedures for Consumer-Related Disputes. Those rules and information about how to start arbitration are available at adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879. The AAA provides a form Demand for Arbitration and a separate form for California residents. Unless we each agree otherwise, the arbitration will be conducted in the county where you reside. If the relief sought is $10,000 or less, the hearing will be conducted by telephone or videoconference or by a submission of documents (unless the arbitrator requires a face-to-face hearing).


https://www.tivo.com/legal/terms


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

Hey guys, I'm going to close out my posts here with _excellent_ news to report for the 3,500 S1 owners!

I decided to call the number that TiVo provided on their S1 offer web page. The very short story is that if you ask their CS rep, TiVo will:


Allow you to buy the TiVo Bolt at a discounted price.
*Transfer your lifetime subscription to the Bolt.*
Still allow you to redeem the $75 Visa gift card.

I immediately took that deal and bought myself a 1 TB Bolt! When taking advantage of this offer (Bolt + subscription transfer), you "only" get $50 off the $299 price of the Bolt (so $250 + tax). Normal shipping is free of charge.

I'm extremely satisfied with this deal. No complaints. I only wish TiVo had mentioned this option in the email!


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

davezatz said:


> No one has to sue. TiVo forced most of us into a documented arbitration clause with a defined process. And residual value isn't the issue, it's the possible breach of contract -- I'd like to believe the appropriate judgement would be another model with service. However, I agree most won't bother and all definitely got their money's worth. https://www.tivo.com/legal/terms


Really? Of course residual value comes into play because that is how you judge damages. You think that they should just hand you another model because you bought something 15 years ago?


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

Seattle said:


> I thought that some early TiVo buyers were able to do a one-time lifetime transfer.


Yes, if you purchase a Series1 TiVo and still have it active on your account I think you can still make a one-time lifetime transfer.


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## jtracy (Dec 20, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Hey guys, I'm going to close out my posts here with _excellent_ news to report for the 3,500 S1 owners!
> 
> I decided to call the number that TiVo provided on their S1 offer web page. The very short story is that if you ask their CS rep, TiVo will:
> 
> ...


That's definitely fair. Congrats on your resolution! You made excellent points throughout this thread and I'm glad to see you were given fair compensation. I think any S1 owner, myself included, would be happy with that result.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

terryfoster said:


> I called and my Grandfathered S1 (activated 12/1999) can have the lifetime service transferred, but the Bolt will cost $174.99 for 500GB and $249.99 for 1TB.


And your problem is?? $249 for the Bolt and you can transfer your lifetime so why are you complaining.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Really? Of course residual value comes into play because that is how you judge damages. You think that they should just hand you another model because you bought something 15 years ago?


For me, it's merely an intellectual exercise. Long ago I unloaded my Series 1 in favor of Replay TV due to component outputs (think: 480p for my projector at the time) and DVarchive.

I suspect TiVo would prefer most of the 3500 to buy into your logic that they got their money's worth and this is a fair settlement. And you could be right. However, ebay resale valuation may not be the whole story in light of "lifetime" marketing as TiVo, Inc is still in business and still manufactures retail DVRs. I also think there's an argument to be made for those who possess inactive Lifetimed S1 units - as they did have a product of some resale value that will presumably be zero-ed out and some may have had intentions to reconnect.

So, like I said, I'd be interested to see what happens if this went through arbitration. Although, as follow-on posts indicate, $75 may only be TiVo's opening offer and CSRs may have a few other carrots to dangle.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Hey guys, I'm going to close out my posts here with _excellent_ news to report for the 3,500 S1 owners!
> 
> I decided to call the number that TiVo provided on their S1 offer web page. The very short story is that if you ask their CS rep, TiVo will:
> 
> ...


Good deal! :up:

Were you also able to use that $75 Visa Gift Card towards the purchase of your new Bolt?


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## cannonz (Oct 23, 2011)

davezatz said:


> For me, it's merely an intellectual exercise. Long ago I unloaded my Series 1 in favor of Replay TV due to component outputs (think: 480p for my projector at the time) and DVarchive..


But oddly not 480i which is all that most TV's at the time could display.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

lew said:


> Product lifetime doesn't just mean when your unit falls apart. It also occurs when a company EOL s a product. When the product is past its useful life.


I don't recall that exclusion being part of the terms of the product lifetime service. Do you have a copy of, or a pointer to the document which documents that as an exclusion?


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## aristoBrat (Dec 30, 2002)

bkc56 said:


> I don't recall that exclusion being part of the terms of the product lifetime service. Do you have a copy of, or a pointer to the document which documents that as an exclusion?


FWIW, this is from what web.archive.org shows as the 1999 TiVo.com website.

https://web.archive.org/web/19991013133000/http://tivo.com/what/faq_sub.html#q09



> *Lifetime Service means as long as your original Receiver remains in Service. If you have to repair or replace your Receiver (even after the warranty period expires) your Lifetime Service will remain in effect. Lifetime Service is also transferable provided the new owner registers with TiVo.


also for giggles



> Q: Does TiVo collect data about what television programs I watch?
> 
> A: TiVo does not collect data about what television programs you watch and aggressively protects your privacy.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

aristoBrat said:


> FWIW, this is from what web.archive.org shows as the 1999 TiVo.com website.
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/19991013133000/http://tivo.com/what/faq_sub.html#q09
> 
> also for giggles


That was the original wording. The version that was ambiguous enough so as to allow transfer to newer unit.

The next version was product lifetime.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

jtracy said:


> That's definitely fair. Congrats on your resolution! You made excellent points throughout this thread and I'm glad to see you were given fair compensation. I think any S1 owner, myself included, would be happy with that result.


It was more than fair. Honestly, if they put that info in the email, I wouldn't have posted anything. At the end of the day, that's all I wanted: to be able to transfer my lifetime subscription - even some kind of discount from the $500+ for the "all-in" plan would have been okay. I was really taking issue with being asked to pay monthly (or annually) for a business decision that was beyond my control. This resolution was exactly what I had hoped for (with less agita, of course).


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

HarperVision said:


> Good deal! :up:
> 
> Were you also able to use that $75 Visa Gift Card towards the purchase of your new Bolt?


It's actually a separate process; TiVo Customer Service can't do that for you. There's a link in the email where you can click to obtain the $75 Visa card. That is a physical card that will be mailed to me within 3 weeks.

So, I couldn't use it for the purchase, but that doesn't matter much to me. It'll get used for groceries or something like that.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

bkc56 said:


> I don't recall that exclusion being part of the terms of the product lifetime service. Do you have a copy of, or a pointer to the document which documents that as an exclusion?


You are 100% correct, and for the folks saying that lifetime meant until the product reached its EOL, that's not true. Lew just posted the link, and here's the original wording from TiVo:



> Lifetime Service means as long as your original Receiver remains in Service. If you have to repair or replace your Receiver (even after the warranty period expires) your Lifetime Service will remain in effect.


Nope. Nothing there about EOL, it's just, "as long as the S1 remains in Service".

Not trying to start anything here because TiVo's over-the-phone offer was exactly what I had hoped to get.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

I'm not the person who posted the link. The link was for the first version of lifetime service, NOT the product lifetime version.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

Dan203 said:


> The Bolt only comes with a 500GB drive, so you'd only be able to get 4 of those bad boys on a brand new Bolt.


I'm still on the Premiere platform, but the XL4 has a 2TB drive.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

lew said:


> I'm not the person who posted the link. The link was for the first version of lifetime service, NOT the product lifetime version.


Exactly. It was because of that wording that TiVo agreed to allow people who bought Lifetime prior to a certain date to transfer their lifetime service to a new unit, but then they changed the wording and anyone who bought after that date was no longer grandfathered into the transfer because the new wording was much more explicit about the lifetime service only being applicable to that particular box.


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

lessd said:


> I don't think anybody has a running Series 1 with lifetime and the original drive still in their unit,


I've got one as well.... all original....running non-stop since 12/31/2001.

(I also have a Series 2 and Series 3.... all 3 are on lifetime, but I had to replace the power supply in the Series 3 a few years back...)


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

markjrenna said:


> What nerve! My TV manufacturer should have given me $500 off since I have a 15 year old SD TV for a new HD TV! Some nerve they didn't!


Wow! You purchased a TV 15 years ago...and the manufacturer offered an additional purchase for "Lifetime Service?" That's cool.... never heard of that before...


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

lessd said:


> You have run your Series 1 for at least 14 years with the original drive, and never taken off the cover ??


Almost 16 years here... and why on Earth would I remove the cover if it never stopped working? "If it ain't broke..."


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

Bigg said:


> and the very original S3 units don't work on FIOS or many Comcast systems now because of MPEG-4,


My original (OLED display) Series 3 works on Comcast just fine.... no issues here.


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## LoadStar (Jul 24, 2001)

bigjohn said:


> Oh ok, I'll contact TiVo about getting links for my two lifetime service plans.


While you might have them still, have they been actually in active use (i.e regularly connecting to TiVo and downloading guide data, recording programs, etc.)?

The offer is only being made to those who are were still actively using the S1s, not to those (like myself) who had S1s sitting in a closet somewhere.


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## 8bitbarbarian (Jul 4, 2004)

Yep - should have taken my S1 out of the closet and dialed it up last spring when I had to move it to find something else. I would have spent some of the $75 on an extra Roamio remote.

Tivo S1 remains the greatest positive life changing gadget I've ever bought and I have no regrets retiring it after 13 yrs (and 3 hard drives) and picking up a Roamio.


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## Worf (Sep 15, 2000)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Allow the 3,500 S1 users that wish to take advantage of TiVo's offer to transfer their lifetime sub, or at the very least, provide a one-time reduced rate on the "all-in" plan.
> 
> I'm happy to buy a Bolt - especially with the discount that is being offered. I just can't justify (in my monthly budget, that is) buying yet another monthly subscription.
> 
> Is that too much to ask?


One could argue TiVo did do that - you can spend your $75 on a new TiVo with All In.

It's just that TiVo decided that it might not be fair to offer a blanket $75 discount on a TiVo Bolt to everyone who probably already has a more modern TiVo in their possession and may not be in a position to upgrade, so they decided to make it a choice - you can use it on a TiVo Bolt if you wanted, or if you don't need or want to upgrade, on something else.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

mahermusic said:


> My original (OLED display) Series 3 works on Comcast just fine.... no issues here.


For now that's correct, but when they get around to upgrading your location to MPEG4 for HD channels (except broadcast) it won't be fully functional. They don't seem to be moving very quickly on that though so you could have years of use without impact (unless you either don't watch any HD channels or only watch broadcast HD channels).

Scott


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

Johncv said:


> And your problem is?? $249 for the Bolt and you can transfer your lifetime so why are you complaining?


I'm not complaining. I'm pointing out the difference in the Bolt discount for S1 owners. It's $75 and $100 off for those paying for new service. It's just a noteworthy difference that isn't listed on the S1 page. I probably am going to pick up one and actually start using my TiVo again.



skyboy9 said:


> "What number did you call?" I have a grandfathered S1 as well.


The number is on the Series 1 page (877-407-1983). As others have mentioned, if you didn't get an email you likely aren't eligible for the gift card (unless they sent it to an old email address of yours). Some of these other offers may not apply to "inactive" S1s, but YMMV.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

terryfoster said:


> ....As others have mentioned, if you didn't get an email you likely aren't eligible for the gift card (unless they sent it to an old email address of yours). Some of these other offers may not apply to "inactive" S1s, but YMMV.


The CS rep will ask for your email address so they can check your account. I'm sure they'll let you know if your S1 is eligible or not.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Hey guys, I'm going to close out my posts here with _excellent_ news to report for the 3,500 S1 owners!
> 
> I decided to call the number that TiVo provided on their S1 offer web page. The very short story is that if you ask their CS rep, TiVo will:
> 
> ...


Sold! I'll have to call in as Tivo doesn't have my e-mail address and I don't have an account with them (as an S1 owner, I don't have a 10 digit media access key).

To those who wonder why S1 owners are upset, it's like totaling your 12-year-old but perfectly working car. It's sudden, it's never at the right time, you're scrambling to figure out what to replace it with (clunker, good used, or new), and your insurance company gave you a tiny check that isn't going to cover the replacement no matter what you choose.

Nobody I know would say totaling your car is a pleasant experience.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

BobCamp1 said:


> Sold! I'll have to call in as Tivo doesn't have my e-mail address and I don't have an account with them (as an S1 owner, I don't have a 10 digit media access key).


You don't have an account with TiVo but your S1 units are active and regularly connecting to the TiVo service? How does that work?


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## jtracy (Dec 20, 2002)

For current Series1 customers who got the email:

If you are not happy with the offer, click the link in the email to redeem your Visa card. On the screen that comes up, call the number in the top right corner. It is a special line for Series1 customers (which was awesome of them to set up). Talk to support. Be courteous, professional, and persistent. 

I spent 45 minutes on the phone with them and give their customer service a solid A. Even their hold music (when they are looking at your account, etc.) is pretty cool.

While I still think TiVo could have handled this differently, based on my public relations background, I have nothing but praise for how they handled my situation after the fact. They were courteous, professional, and strove to be helpful within their limits.

That's it from me. Good luck to everyone else in the same situation.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> You don't have an account with TiVo but your S1 units are active and regularly connecting to the TiVo service? How does that work?


I probably have an account on file somewhere, but can't sign up online because I don't have a media access key. I'm the original owner, and I remember where I was living when I bought the Tivo, but I didn't have an e-mail account at the time. Maybe my Tivo has an account number under Settings.

That website link doesn't work for me. I'll have to call the phone number. I still don't know why Tivo can't send a message to affected S1 users during their daily call. Maybe they're still working on it.


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

Got the deal!!!

Just got off the phone with TiVo:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Order Summary
-------------
Product Description Qty Item Price Tax* Total
R84900 TiVo BOLT 1000 GB 1 $ 249.99 $ 17.50 $ 267.49
TL0206 Service Transfer Letter 1 $ 0.00 $ 0.00 $ 0.00

--------------------------------
Order Sub Total: $ 249.99
Shipping: $ 0.00
Tax: $ 17.50
Order Total: $ 267.49

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I still keep the $75 Visa. End result: 1000GB TiVo Bolt w/Lifetime transferred over from my Series 1 for $192.49 shipped! (Which includes the $75 they're giving Series 1 owners...) Should arrive this coming Wednesday.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

Nice! Good news!


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## satpro (Jan 9, 2004)

Currently the series 1 boxes have to dial in 4 times a year to correct the time even if it does not drift. Once on the new daylight savings date and then again on the old daylight saving date that is coded, then again at the end of DST on the new date and a forth time on the old DST end.

I still don't see a definitive answer to this in the other thread,

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10970103#post10970103

I am not sure they are even aware of the reality of how the current series 1 time set requirements work.

Will the time set work with existing access numbers or are certain dialup numbers going to be turned off eventually. It would be nice if they could just have one 1-800 number that the boxes could dial in to change their time if it drifts and for the 4 times a year when daylight saving time comes into play.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

It sounded to me like there will be no more support at all for S1 units. Which means no phone calls even to set the clock.


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## satpro (Jan 9, 2004)

Then they should release a way to set the clock manually if they don't want to support a dial in for clock set. They also should change the account status on the series 1 to avoid the nag screens and load a dummy guide with 30 minute blocks of time.


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## HerronScott (Jan 1, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> I probably have an account on file somewhere, but can't sign up online because I don't have a media access key. I'm the original owner, and I remember where I was living when I bought the Tivo, but I didn't have an e-mail account at the time. Maybe my Tivo has an account number under Settings.
> 
> That website link doesn't work for me. I'll have to call the phone number. I still don't know why Tivo can't send a message to affected S1 users during their daily call. Maybe they're still working on it.


You don't need a media access key for online access? You just need the TSN from the TiVo (on the back). Also, you should be able to call and get them to assign an e-mail address to your account.

Scott


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

That's what I kind of wondered, are S1s being used "usefully" now? I seem to remember people can sort of "hack" them to work with the OTA HD adaptors, but IIRC, that involved doing things like picking "fake" lineups, etc..

But can they control "current" cable boxes with IR?

I also realize there may be SOME small cable companies that still have some analog service.

Basically, I'm not actually defending them, and think that everyone should be able to transfer their lifetime to a newly purchased device (I personally would actually say at regular retail price, but not charge anything for the transfer)... but am just wondering how useful a S1 _really_ is nowadays..
(yes I did see the other reply saying someone was able to transfer..)


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

mattack said:


> That's what I kind of wondered, are S1s being used "usefully" now? I seem to remember people can sort of "hack" them to work with the OTA HD adaptors, but IIRC, that involved doing things like picking "fake" lineups, etc..
> 
> But can they control "current" cable boxes with IR?
> 
> ...


Works just fine with our Comcast Digital Adapter. We use the TiVo remote to control the TiVo, which controls (with a cable) the Digital Adapter and tells it what channel to change to. It's all original and has never had an issue. We're now sunsetting it because of the free lifetime transfer deal we received (see above.)


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

mahermusic said:


> Almost 16 years here... and why on Earth would I remove the cover if it never stopped working? "If it ain't broke..."


I am impressed that any hard drive from 2000 could last 16 years running at 24/7, I don't think todays drives would do that.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

lessd said:


> I am impressed that any hard drive from 2000 could last 16 years running at 24/7, I don't think todays drives would do that.


Yeah you'll be lucky if they last 16 _months_!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

mattack said:


> ....... I also realize there may be SOME small cable companies that still have some analog service. .......


We still do, and we are Time Warner, soon to be New Charter. I do believe we were scheduled to delete the analog channels about now, but that was all put on hold when the merger was pretty much 100%.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Allow you to buy the TiVo Bolt at a discounted price.
> *Transfer your lifetime subscription to the Bolt.*
> Still allow you to redeem the $75 Visa gift card.


I'm happy to report that I called today and got the same deal. I actually have two active Series 1 units (two spares, and one with no sub), so I did all the above times-two.

It appears the Series 1 priority number just gets you to sales faster (skips ahead in the queue). I still started with a regular minion who explained that since my Tivos were activated after the cut-off I could not transfer the service. I asked for a supervisor, was transferred, and things progressed. It was slow (took over an hour) but the rep was friendly and informative.

I should get my Tivos next week, the gift cards in a couple weeks.

Next, I roll up my sleeves and get ready to deal with Comcast.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Wow, looks like this is getting some real press, and a plug for Dave Zatz too! :up:

Check out this article from USA TODAY:

Last update coming for first TiVo DVRs

http://usat.ly/2bsrf19


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

mattack said:


> That's what I kind of wondered, are S1s being used "usefully" now?
> 
> But can they control "current" cable boxes with IR?


Yes! No analog service needed. If you remember, the S1 was designed to control a cable/satellite box by emulating IR codes. It works great. I have an SD TV in my bedroom, and a free SD FIOS box, and the S1 has been chugging along just fine. I use it to record news and the occasional sports event.

I also have a FIOS DVR (HD) connected to the HDTV in the living room. If I get the Bolt deal, I might put that in the living room and the FIOS DVR in the bedroom. If the Bolt works well, I might return the FIOS DVR and replace it with a Mini, though I have no idea why Mini's are so [email protected]#$ expensive.


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> I also have a FIOS DVR (HD) connected to the HDTV in the living room. If I get the Bolt deal, I might put that in the living room and the FIOS DVR in the bedroom. If the Bolt works well, I might return the FIOS DVR and replace it with a Mini, though I have no idea why Mini's are so [email protected]#$ expensive.


FiOS DVR is pretty bad these days, comparatively, imo. Also, I think the Minis are a pretty great deal considering they have no fees and compared to what Verizon, Comcast, etc rent their extenders or basic boxes. Refurbs can often be had under $80.


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## IraF (Jan 22, 2002)

Comcast offers a Digital Transport Adapter that is a very tiny, minimally-featured set top box, putting out just an SD signal. TiVo can IR blast it successfully. Just seems to use standard Comcast codes.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> Wow, looks like this is getting some real press, and a plug for Dave Zatz too! :up:
> 
> Check out this article from USA TODAY:
> 
> ...


that's not good press IMHO. The average joe sees that and says he doesn't want to adopt something that will just quit working one day (even if that day is 16 years away).


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> that's not good press IMHO. The average joe sees that and says he doesn't want to adopt something that will just quit working one day (even if that day is 16 years away).


I didn't say "good press", I said "real press".


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

Mikeyis4dcats said:


> that's not good press IMHO. The average joe sees that and says he doesn't want to adopt something that will just quit working one day (even if that day is 16 years away).


Really? The average Joe is going to say that he doesn't want to risk money on something that may stop working after 17 years? That is the same Average Joe who buys a new car every 5 years, who gets a new cell phone every 2 or 3 years and who replaces his computer every 4 years?

You must know some different average Joes.


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## tmesser (Apr 12, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Really? The average Joe is going to say that he doesn't want to risk money on something that may stop working after 17 years? That is the same Average Joe who buys a new car every 5 years, who gets a new cell phone every 2 or 3 years and who replaces his computer every 4 years?
> 
> You must know some different average Joes.


Well, this average Joe currently drives an 11-year-old car, consistent with USDOT data on the subject. http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/r...ortation_statistics/html/table_01_26.html_mfd

But in general I agree with your premise. Most people these days aren't keeping electronics for 17 years.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> We still do, and we are Time Warner, soon to be New Charter. I do believe we were scheduled to delete the analog channels about now, but that was all put on hold when the merger was pretty much 100%.


Wow. We have a local overbuilder that still has archaic analog on their system. I think the bottom line is they see no need to remove it, because it doesn't make sense to add more than their current 60 HD channels in terms of carriage fees, so they just let them sit there, wasting half the bandwidth on the system.



BobCamp1 said:


> Yes! No analog service needed. If you remember, the S1 was designed to control a cable/satellite box by emulating IR codes. It works great. I have an SD TV in my bedroom, and a free SD FIOS box, and the S1 has been chugging along just fine. I use it to record news and the occasional sports event.
> 
> I also have a FIOS DVR (HD) connected to the HDTV in the living room. If I get the Bolt deal, I might put that in the living room and the FIOS DVR in the bedroom. If the Bolt works well, I might return the FIOS DVR and replace it with a Mini, though I have no idea why Mini's are so [email protected]#$ expensive.


That's about as good of a use case as you're going to find, but you still lose the multi-room functionality on that compared to having a Roamio Pro with Minis for the whole house, even if your bedroom TV is too small to see HD vs. SD. Also, that thing has been sitting there chewing up power for how many years compared to a Mini?

Mini's are only $150. That's a deal compared to $7-$10/mo from the MSOs. Remember, it can decode MPEG-2 and has MoCA, unlike the $50 streaming sticks (Chromecast and FireTV Stick don't count, as those are basically loss leaders to get you using the Google or Amazon ecosystem).



TonyD79 said:


> You must know some different average Joes.


Also, any Average Joe with a TiVo is renting it from their MSO anyway because that's what the MSO gave them.


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## exuma (Aug 19, 2016)

The CS offered me the discounted BOLT but said she could not transfer the service. Is there some secret code word I should be using?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

exuma said:


> The CS offered me the discounted BOLT but said she could not transfer the service. Is there some secret code word I should be using?


"arbitration" "breach of contract" ?


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## davezatz (Apr 18, 2002)

Bigg said:


> Mini's are only $150. That's a deal compared to $7-$10/mo from the MSOs. Remember, it can decode MPEG-2 and has MoCA, unlike the $50 streaming sticks


And that's MSRP. They can often be had for much less. Plus, beyond TiVo duties, they are sufficient Netflix and Amazon players.


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## NashGuy (May 2, 2015)

TonyD79 said:


> Really? The average Joe is going to say that he doesn't want to risk money on something that may stop working after 17 years? That is the same Average Joe who buys a new car every 5 years, who gets a new cell phone every 2 or 3 years and who replaces his computer every 4 years?
> 
> You must know some different average Joes.


The average Joe doesn't even realize that TiVo still exists. Seriously. So I guess any bit of news coverage (even if critical) that might remind him that TiVo is still around is good for the brand?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

NashGuy said:


> The average Joe doesn't even realize that TiVo still exists. Seriously. So I guess any bit of news coverage (even if critical) that might remind him that TiVo is still around is good for the brand?


I know, even the people selling them at Best Buy and the like don't have a clue what they are and can do these days, which is MUCH more than what they were 17 years ago!


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

exuma said:


> Is there some secret code word I should be using?


"Would you please be so kind as to transfer me to a supervisor? Thank you."


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

davezatz said:


> And that's MSRP. They can often be had for much less. Plus, beyond TiVo duties, they are sufficient Netflix and Amazon players.


Right now on Amazon, the RF mini is $124. The non-RF is $115.

I paid less for both my RF ones.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> Really? The average Joe is going to say that he doesn't want to risk money on something that may stop working after 17 years? That is the same Average Joe who buys a new car every 5 years, who gets a new cell phone every 2 or 3 years and who replaces his computer every 4 years?
> 
> You must know some different average Joes.


I think they're nervous that this sets a precedent that Tivo decides when your box's life is up. Who knows what excuse they'll use next time? It just makes the all-in plan and the concept of buying a box a little less attractive.

You can also say that it's great that Tivo supported it all those years, and that they're still around.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> I think they're nervous that this sets a precedent that Tivo decides when your box's life is up. Who knows what excuse they'll use next time? It just makes the all-in plan and the concept of buying a box a little less attractive. You can also say that it's great that Tivo supported it all those years, and that they're still around.


I doubt it. It's not called lifetime anymore. It is just a price for a unit without monthly fees. Lifetime means something to old timers like us. People are used to a couple of years for electronics anymore.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

TonyD79 said:


> I doubt it. It's not called lifetime anymore. It is just a price for a unit without monthly fees. Lifetime means something to old timers like us. People are used to a couple of years for electronics anymore.


"The All-In Plan provides service for the life of the TiVo device for which it is purchased, and remains with the device in the event of an ownership transfer. The All-In Plan is available for TiVo BOLT Series Unified Entertainment Systems and Roamio Pro DVRs. Devices that already have PLS will continue to receive service for the life of the device."

Sounds like lifetime to me, they just renamed it.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

I just got the lifetime transfer, but didn't get the $75 gift card. It's $25 off a 500 GB or $50 off a 1 TB Bolt. Lifetime Bolt 1 TB for $270 including tax and free shipping. Still one heck of a deal.

The first level CSR just said $75 gift card, and I said, "due to the extraordinary circumstances, is there a way to transfer the S1's lifetime to a new Bolt if I buy it directly from Tivo?" The CSR giggled/laughed like I said the magic words, and transferred me to a supervisor.

The supervisor asked if it was my main Tivo, which I said "yes" since it's my only Tivo. He looked up my service records and confirmed I've been using it every day for over 15 years. After that, he was more than happy to help. He said, "that's one heck of an upgrade!"


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## shwru980r (Jun 22, 2008)

DevdogAZ said:


> Not really. One of them was not under TiVo's control and the other is.


Tivo could have added the functionality to the S1 to control the new digital converter boxes like they did for the S2. The issue is the same.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

BobCamp1 said:


> I think they're nervous that this sets a precedent that Tivo decides when your box's life is up. Who knows what excuse they'll use next time? *It just makes the all-in plan *and the concept of buying a box* a little less attractive.* You can also say that it's great that Tivo supported it all those years, and that they're still around.


I think that's what they want in the end anyway, for everyone to be on monthly plans.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> "The All-In Plan provides service for the life of the TiVo device for which it is purchased, and remains with the device in the event of an ownership transfer. The All-In Plan is available for TiVo BOLT Series Unified Entertainment Systems and Roamio Pro DVRs. Devices that already have PLS will continue to receive service for the life of the device." Sounds like lifetime to me, they just renamed it.


And why do you think they did that? Because there is no more lifetime.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

exuma said:


> The CS offered me the discounted BOLT but said she could not transfer the service. Is there some secret code word I should be using?


Keep trying, tell them that they gave it other people and ask to talk to a supervisor.


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## TonyD79 (Jan 4, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> I think that's what they want in the end anyway, for everyone to be on monthly plans.


If they only came out with new boxes, they could offer them in monthly only. Wait. They just introduced the Bolt and re-introduced Roamio OTA and offered all-in in both. Heck, they are promoting all-in on the roamio.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

jtracy said:


> Very well said.
> 
> Your post is further relevant because you are a current Series1 user. Those who aren't can't relate to the situation. You did a good job of explaining your position and the position of other current Series1 users. Thank you.


It's certainly hard to relate to using a 17 year old electronics device. I know if I had owned several of the Series 1 units, I would have sold them off to get the Series 2 units. I haven't used any electronic device for that long over the last fifty years. And I can't ever see doing it. So for me, it's extremely hard to relate.


----------



## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

aaronwt said:


> I haven't used any electronic device for that long over the last fifty years.


We've got two radios used daily that are at least 20 years old.

I have a HP Kayak XAs PC from somewhere between 1995 and '98 with Linux on it that was used for re-imaging my Series 1 replacement disks. I guess it's obsolete now.

Our house alarm system installed in 1993 still works fine and has been powered up 24/7 for that entire time.

Our Sears Microwave was a wedding gift from my dad, over 30 years ago. We have had it repaired a couple times.

We're using my wife's component stereo receiver purchased in 1978 (38 years) in our entertainment system when we want better sound than the TV's built-in speakers (sometimes when watching a dvd/bray movie). We were using the speakers also, but the paper cones literally fell apart so I got some smaller new speakers.

There's a few other things we own (like my component stereo from 1975), but that aren't in regular use so I can't verify their current operating condition.

So, we've got multiple examples of electronics that have lasted longer than our Tivo Series 1 units. Our expectation is that stuff will work for a long time. Yes, we're often disappointed. 

I have to wonder how long the Tivos would have lasted given the opportunity.


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## krick (Sep 6, 2003)

I have two S1 TiVo units with lifetime service on my account. I only got one $75 gift card email. Is the offer one-per-account or do I need to call TiVo?


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## mikemc78 (Aug 5, 2002)

I have an active series 1 TiVo with a lifetime plan... but for some reason I did not receive this letter. Can you share the link to apply for the $75 Visa card?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

Just call the special S1 customer service line. If you ask nicely, they'll let you buy a new Bolt and transfer the lifetime service to it. Plus they'll still give you the $75.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

krick said:


> I only got one $75 gift card email.


The offer is per ACTIVE Series 1, where "active" is defined as having called in during approximately the first 6 months of this year (it's too late now). I have 4 Series 1 with lifetime, but only two are active (in-use, calling in) so my e-mail only listed the two active serial numbers. I had to submit the claim twice, once for each serial number. Just for fun, I tried the other three serial numbers (two with lifetime, one with nothing) and they were all rejected (as expected).


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Dan203 said:


> You'd be lucky to get $75 for a S1 unit with lifetime. They're basically worthless these days. Very few people want a unit with 1 tuner that can only record SD.
> 
> How many other 15+ year old devices do you own that still work?


My grandma's old ma bell rotary phone is still working just fine!


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## SnakeEyes (Dec 26, 2000)

Series 1
002-*
Philips 30 Hour PTV Recorder	10/11/2000


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> I know if I had owned several of the Series 1 units, I would have sold them off to get the Series 2 units.


If you want to waste money, that's your problem. What extra features did the S2 have over the S1? If you don't use any of those features, it's a waste to upgrade just to have the latest.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

bkc56 said:


> We've got two radios used daily that are at least 20 years old.
> 
> So, we've got multiple examples of electronics that have lasted longer than our Tivo Series 1 units. Our expectation is that stuff will work for a long time. Yes, we're often disappointed.


The phrase is, "they don't make them like they used to." I still have a 17-year-old VCR that works, which is amazing considering it's very mechanical. On the other hand, I go through a dehumidifier every 12-18 months even though it's lightly used.


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## Mikeyis4dcats (Oct 2, 2003)

TonyD79 said:


> Really? The average Joe is going to say that he doesn't want to risk money on something that may stop working after 17 years? That is the same Average Joe who buys a new car every 5 years, who gets a new cell phone every 2 or 3 years and who replaces his computer every 4 years?
> 
> You must know some different average Joes.


the average Joe isn't paying that much attention, all they will see is Tivo cutting off service. They won't understand or care that it was after 17 years.

IMHO.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

BobCamp1 said:


> If you want to waste money, that's your problem. What extra features did the S2 have over the S1? If you don't use any of those features, it's a waste to upgrade just to have the latest.


My first TiVos were Series 2 units. But from DirecTV. I had three of them and they each had two tuners. So instead of having to use six VCRs, I was able to use three TiVos instead. It made a huge difference for me close to fifteen years ago.

Although back then I was also using them as backups to my HD recordings I made from OTA. Plus only around half of what I watched back then was in HD. So I still needed to use those Series 2 TiVos regularly to watch the shows that were only in SD.

My series 2 TiVos were basically free. Since I had purchased ten of them and sold off seven of them for a hefty profit. Which covered the cost of my three plus most of the cost of the hard drive upgrades.


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

bkc56 said:


> I have to wonder how long the Tivos would have lasted given the opportunity.


It's an interesting question; in the end, if TiVo continued to provide guide data, I figure multiple sorts of signal incompatibility would have eventually done them in, very slowly, along with any attrition due to lightning strikes/capacitor plague/hard drive crashes/etc. Video-wise OTA was already done for -- and if your cable service stops offering SD in a way TiVo can see (seems unlikely but might eventually come up). On the IR front there's nothing that stops Comcast, for example, from forcing the use of a new DTA that's incompatible with the IR signals even if Comcast continued to support SD coax. Additionally, refusing to re-activate compatible DTAs at a new location would also stop some use. The continued phasing out of POTS in some areas, particularly after natural disasters, also would have hurt -- I was unable to get the PPP connection going with a USB Serial adapter when I tried during the dial-in issues of a few years back, and how many folks even know to try and have the parts needed? Also there is the possibility of the company offering the dial-in lines ceasing to offer them.

I suppose we can all try to pay attention and keep score as to what would have forced our hands in the end was it not for this -- though most of the above would've earned much less grumbling.



BobCamp1 said:


> The phrase is, "they don't make them like they used to." I still have a 17-year-old VCR that works, which is amazing considering it's very mechanical. On the other hand, I go through a dehumidifier every 12-18 months even though it's lightly used.


That, or "survivorship bias"  -- my VCR of the same vintage abruptly died one day in 2006. It was interesting to learn there are about 3,500 of us with Series1 units still dialing in.


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

I don't see any technical reason and S1 couldn't interface with XFinity Triple Play (at least the phone and TV parts) dialing in through the eMTA, and using a DTA or even regular SD box with IR blasting. Why you'd actually want to keep one active instead of just buying another Mini is beyond me, but theoretically, it would be possible.


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## ajwees41 (May 7, 2006)

Bigg said:


> I don't see any technical reason and S1 couldn't interface with XFinity Triple Play (at least the phone and TV parts) dialing in through the eMTA, and using a DTA or even regular SD box with IR blasting. Why you'd actually want to keep one active instead of just buying another Mini is beyond me, but theoretically, it would be possible.


Why there might not be a technical reason TiVo will not support it. And what would no Comcast users use!?


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## mattack (Apr 9, 2001)

I guess I'm kind of amazed though. I'm seriously among the last to tell people to get new hardware (I'm typing this on a keyboard from ~1984 through an adapter), but the jump to 2, 4, or 6 tuners, with a huge increase in picture quality (as long as there are no glitches in the signal)... is such a jump.. and I was one who used an OLED S3 & TivoHD on a tube TV.. (I got them due to the lifetime transfer options..)

PLUS, at least if you consider monthly cost, for many it's NOT more expensive, since the Tivo itself replaces the cost of the cable box.. (and didn't cable companies even start charging for the DTAs eventually?)


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

aaronwt said:


> My first TiVos were Series 2 units. But from DirecTV.


Ah! You didn't say that. It sounded like you sold your S1s for S2s.

I used my S1 with DirecTV for a number of years. Someone even developed a serial cable to interface with the DirecTV boxes.


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Hey guys, I'm going to close out my posts here with _excellent_ news to report for the 3,500 S1 owners!
> 
> I decided to call the number that TiVo provided on their S1 offer web page. The very short story is that if you ask their CS rep, TiVo will:
> 
> ...


I just called TiVo and spoke with Zack who gave me the same deal! 
He said my S1 had been on for 15 years and 10 months!


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## Bigg (Oct 31, 2003)

ajwees41 said:


> Why there might not be a technical reason TiVo will not support it. And what would no Comcast users use!?


Huh? It would be similar for other major all-digital, fully-encrypted, VOIP-based MSOs like FIOS triple play, Charter, Cox, other HFC-based MSOs, etc. Heck, even IPTV would work with the right box and IR blaster, but again, why? It would be hard with newer satellite systems, since they don't support SD boxes though. But then you'd have their multiroom HD-DVR solution.


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## stamasd (Jun 26, 2002)

TiVoJedi said:


> I just called TiVo and spoke with Zack who gave me the same deal!
> He said my S1 had been on for 15 years and 10 months!


I just spoke with Zack and he didn't give me any deal at all. http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10976081#post10976081


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

stamasd said:


> I just spoke with Zack and he didn't give me any deal at all. http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10976081#post10976081


I'm sorry to hear he didn't give you the same offer. It's possible he looked at my account and saw my S1 TiVo was actively participating for the entire 15+ years and I have never once done any lifetime sub transfer with them. There was some kind of purchase period in the inception of TiVo selling DVRs that auto qualified the one-time transfer. Maybe that was marked on my account and that's why the transfer approval was granted?!? I was put on hold a few minutes with him, so maybe that is what he was checking?


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## stamasd (Jun 26, 2002)

TiVoJedi said:


> I'm sorry to hear he didn't give you the same offer. It's possible he looked at my account and saw my S1 TiVo was actively participating for the entire 15+ years and I have never once done any lifetime sub transfer with them. There was some kind of purchase period in the inception of TiVo selling DVRs that auto qualified the one-time transfer. Maybe that was marked on my account and that's why the transfer approval was granted?!? I was put on hold a few minutes with him, so maybe that is what he was checking?


My Tivo has been active daily for over 16 years. Yet no deal.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

stamasd said:


> My Tivo has been active daily for over 16 years. Yet no deal.


You have to ask to talk to a supervisor. They're not going to automatically give the transfer offer to everyone who calls in, but they will if you're persistent and they think they're going to lose you as a loyal customer.


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## stamasd (Jun 26, 2002)

DevdogAZ said:


> You have to ask to talk to a supervisor. They're not going to automatically give the transfer offer to everyone who calls in, but they will if you're persistent and they think they're going to lose you as a loyal customer.


I spoke to a superviser for quite a while and made my situation perfectly clear I think. Including references to all the posts on this forum announcing they got the transfer. The supervisor wouldn't commit to anything. In fact he clearly toldme tgey had no record of sending me an email even though I received it. Makes me question Tivo as a company if they can't even find emails sent a week ago.


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## MajorHavoc83 (Jun 17, 2004)

stamasd said:


> I spoke to a superviser for quite a while and made my situation perfectly clear I think. Including references to all the posts on this forum announcing they got the transfer. The supervisor wouldn't commit to anything. In fact he clearly toldme tgey had no record of sending me an email even though I received it. Makes me question Tivo as a company if they can't even find emails sent a week ago.


WOW! Something isn't right. If you have that email, and you've never done a lifetime transfer, and your S1 has been actively connecting, then something is messed up on TiVo's side. I honestly didn't have any issue whatsoever, and my Bolt arrived last night.

Sorry you're running into those issues.


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> WOW! Something isn't right. If you have that email, and you've never done a lifetime transfer, and your S1 has been actively connecting, then something is messed up on TiVo's side. I honestly didn't have any issue whatsoever, and my Bolt arrived last night.
> 
> Sorry you're running into those issues.


Ditto, though mine shipped last night and should be here Friday. I called TWC to order a self install kit including the CableCard and tuning adapter which is required in my area.

Do you think I should power it up and go through setup with an antenna and then call TiVo for the lifetime sub transfer or call them first with the BOlt serial # and do the swap before I power it on the first time?


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

TiVoJedi said:


> Ditto, though mine shipped last night and should be here Friday. I called TWC to order a self install kit including the CableCard and tuning adapter which is required in my area.
> 
> Do you think I should power it up and go through setup with an antenna and then call TiVo for the lifetime sub transfer or call them first with the BOlt serial # and do the swap before I power it on the first time?


I received mine yesterday...

Quick thought - I'm thinking of leaving the 1000GB Bolt sealed until we see what's coming out with the TiVo Pro in Sept. It will be within the 30-day return period, and there's nothing on my Lifetime Service transfer letter stating what TiVo Service number I must transfer to. I wonder if they do come out with a Bolt w/upgrades, if we can return and get the upgraded one...


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

I still use my series 2 everyday. It records all my cable channels ( as does my bolt), but unlike my bolt, I can xfer to my laptop from the S2.

I guess it's only a matter of time before S2 goes bybye also.


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

mahermusic said:


> I received mine yesterday...
> 
> Quick thought - I'm thinking of leaving the 1000GB Bolt sealed until we see what's coming out with the TiVo Pro in Sept. It will be within the 30-day return period, and there's nothing on my Lifetime Service transfer letter stating what TiVo Service number I must transfer to. I wonder if they do come out with a Bolt w/upgrades, if we can return and get the upgraded one...


I dunno. I feel like TiVo is being generous with allowing us to transfer the purchase to an already discounted unit, but it is possible they may allow us to pay the full price of the upgraded Bolt and do the transfer just the same. Considering we endured over 15 years of standard def the Bolt today is INCREDIBLY advanced and a big jump for us.


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## krick (Sep 6, 2003)

I have two Series 1 TiVo units that are used daily in my house as well as a third Series 1 TiVo at my mother's house (she LOVES TiVo). I just got off the phone with a TiVo rep and they wouldn't transfer my lifetime service to a Bolt. The person I spoke to says that TiVo doesn't do that anymore. I suppose I could have asked for his supervisor and made a scene, but honestly, I don't feel like fighting with them. I've been a loyal customer for over 15 years, spreading the gospel of TiVo to everyone I know. If TiVo doesn't want my business, then to hell with them.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

TIVO_GUY_HERE said:


> I still use my series 2 everyday. It records all my cable channels ( as does my bolt), but unlike my bolt, I can xfer to my laptop from the S2.
> 
> I guess it's only a matter of time before S2 goes bybye also.


Why can't you transfer from the Bolt? I can transfer from all my TiVos to a PC without TIVO desktop or kmttg. Just from a Web browser.


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

TiVoJedi said:


> I dunno. I feel like TiVo is being generous with allowing us to transfer the purchase to an already discounted unit, but it is possible they may allow us to pay the full price of the upgraded Bolt and do the transfer just the same. Considering we endured over 15 years of standard def the Bolt today is INCREDIBLY advanced and a big jump for us.


I hear ya. Well, we weren't going to open up and activate the Bolt until after we, (sniff), finally unplug the Series 1 on September 30th. By the middle of Sept., we should know what, if any, upgrades to the Bolt there will be.

But, yes, I do agree with you that TiVo has been extremely generous with what they did for us active Series 1 owners...


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## stamasd (Jun 26, 2002)

krick said:


> I have two Series 1 TiVo units that are used daily in my house as well as a third Series 1 TiVo at my mother's house (she LOVES TiVo). I just got off the phone with a TiVo rep and they wouldn't transfer my lifetime service to a Bolt. The person I spoke to says that TiVo doesn't do that anymore. I suppose I could have asked for his supervisor and made a scene, but honestly, I don't feel like fighting with them. I've been a loyal customer for over 15 years, spreading the gospel of TiVo to everyone I know. If TiVo doesn't want my business, then to hell with them.


Ah, so I'm not the only one. Haven't had any success today either. Guess you have to have all the planets aligned to get Tivo not to treat some customers differently from others.


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## TIVO_GUY_HERE (Jul 10, 2000)

aaronwt said:


> Why can't you transfer from the Bolt? I can transfer from all my TiVos to a PC without TIVO desktop or kmttg. Just from a Web browser.


I know you can do that. But TW protects pretty much everything other than network. 80% of my shows from basic cable show up as protected.

That's why I use s2. I use KMTTG set up auto xfers, and forget about.

all network shows get xfered from bolt


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

krick said:


> The person I spoke to says that TiVo doesn't do that anymore. I suppose I could have asked for his supervisor and made a scene, but honestly, I don't feel like fighting with them.


All the first-line people say that. The one I talked to did the same thing. But there is no need to fight or make a scene. You ask for a supervisor, explain the situation (as you did with the first-line person) and if your two Tivos had called in during the required time-frame you will get the same deal others have reported.

It does take a while (I was on the phone over an hour from start to completed purchase) but I never had to raise my voice, try and convince them, beg or plead.

It's unfortunate that I lost 2 of my 4 lifetime service (because those two didn't call in). But the only reason I had them was as backups for 16 year old hardware that could die at any time.

I got brand new hardware at a significant discount (if you include the $75 gift card), with lifetime service on both. I feel that I was treated fairly by Tivo. Even if I they had allowed the other two units, I would not have purchased 4 bolts.


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## stamasd (Jun 26, 2002)

bkc56 said:


> All the first-line people say that. The one I talked to did the same thing. But there is no need to fight or make a scene. You ask for a supervisor, explain the situation (as you did with the first-line person) and if your two Tivos had called in during the required time-frame you will get the same deal others have reported.


Not necessarily. I didn't get the deal, even though my unit was active all the time and I talked to a supervisor. It's possible that they shut the door, and whoever didn't get in on the first few days will be SOL. Which is why I said it doesn't look like Tivo are treating their customers equally.


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## NixyCat (Aug 25, 2016)

Seattle said:


> I just called and got the same offer but my TiVo was activated in 2001.


Thank you very much for this info! I have a Series 1 that I activated in early 2001. Over the years I replaced the harddrives to give me 300+ hours, added an ethernet card after the modem died... Wifey and I have loved it ever since. Then yesterday I got the notice we're all fretting about.

As suggested by Seattle, I called the Series 1 hotline number and spoke with a rep, asking for a lifetime service transfer to a new unit. He said I was not eligible for a lifetime service transfer to a new Bolt, only those who activated their Series 1 before Jan 20, 2000. I said "I'm sure you can make an exception". He said that *he* could not make an exception. So I asked to be connected to a floor supervisor. Turns out he could do it, and I didn't even have to plead and make a scene. Right away when then supervisor answered he made me the offer. I guess maybe it depends on who you get. The supervisor I spoke with was "Zack".

Here are the specifics of of what Zack said that floor supervisors can offer:

-- Any series 1 that has recently been used (downloaded listings recently) can have the lifetime service transferred to a new unit. S1's sitting in the closet collecting dust are not eligible
-- Offer is available until November 30
-- Lifetime service will can be transferred to a unit bought thru him ($25 off a 500GB unit, $50 off a 1000GB unit). I think you can buy it on your own and still get this offer. The new unit offer on tivo.com/series1 is not eligible. That offer you have to purchase either the monthly/yearly/lifetime plan at full cost.

I ordered my new 1000GB unit from him for $249 + $15 tax + zero shipping. All I have to do is when I call to activate the unit, I have to speak to a floor supervisor to get the Series 1->Bolt lifetime service transferred, and give him my case #. Level 1 reps can't do this.

Hope this helps others here.

Time to move on to new hardware, as a continued happy TiVo customer..


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

NixyCat said:


> I guess maybe it depends on who you get


Not really. You just have to get past the front-line folks to a supervisor. The Series 1 "hotline" doesn't get you to anyone special, I think it just bumps you to the front of the line. You still have to push through to a supervisor.

And you should also be able to get the $75 gift card (in addition to the sale price on the bolt and the lifetime transfer).


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## foghorn2 (May 4, 2004)

BKC56- good info there, like I said before- Tivo being very generous here, Great Company! this type of customer loyalty is missing now days. 

ps, another reason I posted right below you is because you have a Doom avatar and mine is from Descent II, two of the best games ever with the same engine behind the scenes.


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## jhyland (Aug 26, 2016)

I'm a long time S1 original owner which still makes daily calls. I did receive the $75 card offer in the email. I called and ended up talking with a supervisor. I was offered the same Bolt offer ($25 off 500; $50 off 1T) and lifetime transfer. The TV I use with my S1 does not have an HDMI input. The supervisor checked with the "corporate board" and called me back the next day to offer me a refurb Romio S (500G) with a breakout cable which doesn't require hdmi and would work with my TV for $99.

Note that the S1 is only Tivo I have owned. I do most of my HD viewing through Roku's. I am technologically savvy, but I haven't kept up on Tivo developments and have just kept the S1 running on an older TV in a spare room.

I do have other TVs with HDMI that I could use a replacement Tivo with and will probably ending up doing that. I am not familiar with the Romio S and don't find mention of that on the web or their outlet site. So my options are:

$249 1T new Bolt
$174 500G new Bolt
$99 500G refurb Romio s

All the previous posters I've read have opted for the 1T bolt.
What are the group's opinions on the best value on these 3 options and what are the main differences between bolt and romio s?
(Does the romio s just mean "not plus or pro"?)


Thanks for your advice.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jhyland said:


> I'm a long time S1 original owner which still makes daily calls. I did receive the $75 card offer in the email. I called and ended up talking with a supervisor. I was offered the same Bolt offer ($25 off 500; $50 off 1T) and lifetime transfer. The TV I use with my S1 does not have an HDMI input. The supervisor checked with the "corporate board" and called me back the next day to offer me a refurb Romio S (500G) with a breakout cable which doesn't require hdmi and would work with my TV for $99.
> 
> Note that the S1 is only Tivo I have owned. I do most of my HD viewing through Roku's. I am technologically savvy, but I haven't kept up on Tivo developments and have just kept the S1 running on an older TV in a spare room.
> 
> ...


While not 100% certain, my 99% certain guess is that what they are calling Roamio S we refer to as the base or basic Roamio. A 4 tuner Romaio that can do OTA or digital cable.

For $75 more the Bolt is hands down a better machine. I think you could us an HDMI to Component converter to use it with your TV.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Me personally, I would take the 1TB Bolt if they're transferring All-In service over to it. It is only about $75 more than the 500GB Bolt and that's minimum what you'd pay for a 1TB drive if you wanted to do the upgrade yourself, plus the 1TB All-In Bolt will have the highest resale value, should you decide or need to sell it, maybe after the new Bolt+ is announced mid Sep.?

I have no idea what a "Roamio S" is, but it does sound like a base model, especially since they're saying it needs a breakout cable. The Roamio plus and pro don't need that, they have full RCA outs for composite and component video and L/R audio.

P.S. - Dang, musky beat me to it!


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## jhyland (Aug 26, 2016)

Thanks for the advice. They did say it was a 4 tuner model. So I'm guessing it is the base model. They said they don't sell it new anymore. So if I'm putting out cash now, I don't think I want to buy something that is already a generation old (and a base model). I just wanted to make sure there weren't any features on the romio base model that are not on the Bolt. Is that correct?

They are transferring the lifetime subscription to the new box.

The tougher choice for me is the 500G or 1T for $75 more. I feel like if I buy the 500G I could use the $75 towards and external 3.5 much bigger drive by running a cable out from the internal sata port as mentioned elsewhere on this site.

Any thoughts?

(and getting the 1T because it will have a higher resale is not an issue for me. I had my current tivo for 17 years and am likely to keep this new one a long time also)


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

jhyland said:


> Thanks for the advice. They did say it was a 4 tuner model. So I'm guessing it is the base model. They said they don't sell it new anymore. So if I'm putting out cash now, I don't think I want to buy something that is already a generation old (and a base model). I just wanted to make sure there weren't any features on the romio base model that are not on the Bolt. Is that correct?
> 
> They are transferring the lifetime subscription to the new box.
> 
> ...


The Bolt has more features and is an upgrade to the base Roamio in nearly every way.

The 2 places where the base Roamio have some advantage are that it has a 3.5 inch hard drive and there for it is easier and cheaper to upgrade the hard drive & you can get the breakout cable for analog connection the Bolt only has HDMI.

I have the base Roamio that I have upgraded with a 3TB drive and the 1TB Bolt. I use them both to record but view everything through the Bolt (they are on the same TV). The Bolt also does a better job with the streaming apps (I use YouTube, Amazon, & Vudu lightly).


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## krick (Sep 6, 2003)

jhyland said:


> The TV I use with my S1 does not have an HDMI input.


If you got the TiVo Bolt, you could put it on a different TV that does have an HDMI input, then pick up a TiVo Mini for your old TV since the Mini supports Composite, Component, and HDMI. With a mini, you can "share" content from another 4-tuner TiVo like the Bolt.

https://www.tivo.com/shop/mini


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

jhyland said:


> Thanks for the advice. They did say it was a 4 tuner model. So I'm guessing it is the base model. They said they don't sell it new anymore. So if I'm putting out cash now, I don't think I want to buy something that is already a generation old (and a base model). I just wanted to make sure there weren't any features on the romio base model that are not on the Bolt. Is that correct?
> 
> They are transferring the lifetime subscription to the new box.
> 
> ...


I got the 1 TB Bolt. The number of HD recording hours is somewhere between 120 and 150.

I have a 500 GB HD DVR from FIOS and it's usually 60% full, except when a major tennis event is happening, then it's almost full.

You could get a 2 TB hard drive for $75-$90, but then you also need the cable and the external enclosure, and you have to set it up, and it'll look ugly, and void your warranty....

I'm pretty sure I'm never going to use more than 700 MB, so I just got the 1 TB version.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

NixyCat said:


> Here are the specifics of of what Zack said that floor supervisors can offer:
> 
> -- Any series 1 that has recently been used (downloaded listings recently) can have the lifetime service transferred to a new unit. S1's sitting in the closet collecting dust are not eligible
> -- Offer is available until November 30
> -- Lifetime service will can be transferred to a unit bought thru him ($25 off a 500GB unit, $50 off a 1000GB unit). I think you can buy it on your own and still get this offer. The new unit offer on tivo.com/series1 is not eligible. That offer you have to purchase either the monthly/yearly/lifetime plan at full cost.


Let me add my experience, as I believe one or two people said they couldn't get the lifetime transfer. I purchased in 2000 after the cutoff to be grandfathered for a free transfer. I got something different than a simple "yes" or "no."

I called yesterday, and also ended up speaking to Zack. But what he said something about how while normally lifetime service cannot be transferred, sometimes as part of ending the Series 1 they can do it. He said that specific devices qualify. He said that he would send the request to the back office for them to research to see if it is possible, and that they would contact me.

Less than an hour later, I got an E-mail saying that the TSN does in fact qualify "for the promotion you inquired about."

What I get from this is that there are indeed people who are getting the message about the promotion (e.g. have been connecting recently) but for some reason TiVo is not willing to make an exception to transfer the lifetime service.

The odd part is that the E-mail included a link to the tivo.com/series1 page with a unique URL for my TSN, but the page looked no different than before, so ordering was at the full discount, not the partial discount.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

rscott0 said:


> The odd part is that the E-mail included a link to the tivo.com/series1 page with a unique URL for my TSN, but the page looked no different than before, so ordering was at the full discount, not the partial discount.


Did the service plan selections differ (i.e. did a lifetime transfer option appear) or were you still required to choose a service plan?


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

terryfoster said:


> Did the service plan selections differ (i.e. did a lifetime transfer option appear) or were you still required to choose a service plan?


That's the odd thing: the page was exactly the same as the generic page, except that it had my TSN in it. There was nothing mentioning the lifetime transfer, just the same options to buy the Bolt.


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

rscott0 said:


> That's the odd thing: the page was exactly the same as the generic page, except that it had my TSN in it. There was nothing mentioning the lifetime transfer, just the same options to buy the Bolt.


Yeah, that what I figured. The initial email included the TSN in the link. You'll still need to call in for the transfer offer.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

terryfoster said:


> Yeah, that what I figured. The initial email included the TSN in the link. You'll still need to call in for the transfer offer.


Yes, I figure I will need to call back to get them to do the actual transfer of lifetime service, and that it won't happen automatically. I just find it odd that they would have me order off of the same page (as opposed to getting the smaller discount while on the phone), and that Zack said that only specific devices qualify (which is based on TSN).


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## terryfoster (Jul 21, 2003)

rscott0 said:


> Yes, I figure I will need to call back to get them to do the actual transfer of lifetime service, and that it won't happen automatically. I just find it odd that they would have me order off of the same page (as opposed to getting the smaller discount while on the phone), and that Zack said that only specific devices qualify (which is based on TSN).


I could be wrong, but I'd assume you're signing a 12 month new service agreement by purchasing the device from the website. I do suppose that you could transfer your lifetime after that 12 month commitment has been fulfilled (if your TSN qualifies). Or you could order your Bolt over the phone at the reduced discount with the lifetime transfer.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

terryfoster said:


> I could be wrong, but I'd assume you're signing a 12 month new service agreement by purchasing the device from the website. I do suppose that you could transfer your lifetime after that 12 month commitment has been fulfilled (if your TSN qualifies). Or you could order your Bolt over the phone at the reduced discount with the lifetime transfer.


That can't both transfer the lifetime service and charge monthly fees. That's like buying something at the store for $100 and getting 2 $100 charges on your credit card statement.

Yes, the page does say there is a monthly fee. But that is the page they sent me to when saying my TiVo qualifies for the lifetime service transfer. I assume they just have so few people doing this that they haven't bothered to automate the process.


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## randian (Jan 15, 2014)

My SVR2000 is showing as an "Active Tivo Device" on my account, but I didn't get the $75 offer by email. Am I SOL at this point?


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

randian said:


> My SVR2000 is showing as an "Active Tivo Device" on my account, but I didn't get the $75 offer by email. Am I SOL at this point?


You won't know unless you call.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

randian said:


> My SVR2000 is showing as an "Active Tivo Device" on my account, but I didn't get the $75 offer by email. Am I SOL at this point?


It has nothing to do with whether the device shows as active on your account. It has to do with whether the device has been hooked up and made a call into TiVo's servers during the first seven months of this year.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

So I had a Philips Series 1 with Lifetime service that had been in my basement for a while. I had some long-term guests, so I pulled it out of storage today and set it up. It dialed in, downloaded, and proceeded to load the guide data. Then I got an error message that it was unable to load the Series information.

It didn't take me long to find that I've been abandoned by Tivo, at least on the Philips Series 1. I found the toll free number referenced by Ira Bahr when he said, "Our offer is $75 off of a 500 GB TiVo BOLT or $100 off 1000 GB when you subscribe to a new service plan. Importantly, this is IN ADDITION to the $75 prepaid card, meaning that the net prices are $50 and $125 respectively. If you're not getting an outcome you like, please do phone our S1 hotline at 1-877-407-1983, and tell us your situation. We've worked hard to assure that we have offers to accomodate all requirements.
"

I called that number and explained myself. The rep said he had to escalate. He came back and said my unit hadn't dialed in during the Jan-July time frame and there's nothing they could do. I told him I didn't care about the gift card or a discount. I was willing to buy a Bolt from Tivo at the full $300 price if they'd transfer the service. He put me on hold again and came back with the same, "sorry, there's nothing we can do."

Isn't Tivo basically just unilaterally breaching their service agreement with me when they choose not to do anything at all? On the one hand, they say the number of Series 1 owners now is so small it's not worth the programming effort, but on the other hand, it's so large that they can't afford to transfer service on mine to a full-price Bolt?


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

bmgoodman said:


> So I had a Philips Series 1 with Lifetime service that had been in my basement for a while. I had some long-term guests, so I pulled it out of storage today and set it up. It dialed in, downloaded, and proceeded to load the guide data. Then I got an error message that it was unable to load the Series information.
> 
> It didn't take me long to find that I've been abandoned by Tivo, at least on the Philips Series 1. I found the toll free number referenced by Ira Bahr when he said, "Our offer is $75 off of a 500 GB TiVo BOLT or $100 off 1000 GB when you subscribe to a new service plan. Importantly, this is IN ADDITION to the $75 prepaid card, meaning that the net prices are $50 and $125 respectively. If you're not getting an outcome you like, please do phone our S1 hotline at 1-877-407-1983, and tell us your situation. We've worked hard to assure that we have offers to accomodate all requirements.
> "
> ...


.
TiVo said that there were 3500 active Series 1 units, could be a million non active Series 1 units with Lifetime, that could cost TiVo some real money if they gave the same deal to all Series 1 Lifetime units as people would drag them out for that type of deal. Lifetime on any say software or hardware(like Windows XP) does have some legal limits on support, normally 10 years, Series 1s are 16 or so years old, if you had a 20 year old Ford and an electronic part goes bad that only Ford ever made, but are not making anymore, you would be out of luck if you could not find the part somewhere, Ford would not have to make it for you.


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

lessd said:


> .
> TiVo said that there were 3500 active Series 1 units, could be a million non active Series 1 units with Lifetime, that could cost TiVo some real money if they gave the same deal to all Series 1 Lifetime units as people would drag them out for that type of deal.


A million? Did they even make a million? How many people even knew this was going on?

Regardless, Tivo chose not to spend the money to handle the data format changeover. They chose to breach the contract and give me nothing. They didn't even notify me, I suppose just hoping I'd never hook it up again. I supposed if my visitors had been here sooner, I would have had a good deal.

I guess it's time I dig up the "unit lifetime" service agreement that I entered into with Tivo when I bought it. The unit did function today. I did dial in. It did complete the download. Seems to me the unit is still "alive".


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

You'd think they'd at least offer something like reduced All In service if someone proves they have an S1 that calls in and works. Maybe something like $199 if you buy a Bolt from them full retail?


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

HarperVision said:


> You'd think they'd at least offer something like reduced All In service if someone proves they have an S1 that calls in and works. Maybe something like $199 if you buy a Bolt from them full retail?


Why should TiVo create a situation where people are incentivized to pull old TiVos out of their closets or basements or garages to try and get some value out of them when these customers had long ago stopped using these devices and relegated them to the discard pile? If a user has voluntarily stopped using the device for over six months (and in most cases, many years), then they've basically already determined that for their purposes, the "lifetime" of that device has ended.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

lessd said:


> ... Lifetime on any say software or hardware(like Windows XP) does have some legal limits on support, normally 10 years, Series 1s are 16 or so years old, if you had a 20 year old Ford and an electronic part goes bad that only Ford ever made, but are not making anymore, you would be out of luck if you could not find the part somewhere, Ford would not have to make it for you.


The Ford and software/hardware examples assume no limit is given (e.g. Ford doesn't say "We'll provide parts for 20 years", and software developers do not say "We will support this program for 4 years").

Here, TiVo made it clear lifetime service was for the lifetime of the product. Not 4 years, not 10 years, not 20 years.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rscott0 said:


> The Ford and software/hardware examples assume no limit is given (e.g. Ford doesn't say "We'll provide parts for 20 years", and software developers do not say "We will support this program for 4 years").
> 
> Here, TiVo made it clear lifetime service was for the lifetime of the product. Not 4 years, not 10 years, not 20 years.


Do you think any court would say that the* lifetime of the product *goes on forever, like say 100 years, I don't think so, I can't tell you the legal limit to Lifetime but it sure is less than 100 years, let the lawyers on this Forum have a go on this, IMHO it is around 10 years.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

lessd said:


> Do you think any court would say that the* lifetime of the product *goes on forever, like say 100 years, I don't think so, I can't tell you the legal limit to Lifetime but it sure is less than 100 years, let the lawyers on this Forum have a go on this, IMHO it is around 10 years.


So... you're saying that after 10 years, TiVo could have said "_Hey, guess what? Your lifetime service is over. But if you want, you can spend $600 and get another lifetime service agreement!_"?

I can't find any laws that restrict the length of a lifetime agreement. I can find a law that says that lifetime _warranties_ need to have a description clarifying how long they last, but that doesn't even restrict it to a certain time period.

This isn't like a restaurant that accidentally said "free refills" without clarifying that it was per visit, and customers are coming in years later with the cup they bought for $.99 and getting soda without buying anything, and the restaurant will go out of business if it continues. The cost to TiVo for lifetime service should be quite small (depending on their licensing agreement).


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

DevdogAZ said:


> Why should TiVo create a situation where people are incentivized to pull old TiVos out of their closets or basements or garages to try and get some value out of them when these customers had long ago stopped using these devices and relegated them to the discard pile? If a user has voluntarily stopped using the device for over six months (and in most cases, many years), then they've basically already determined that for their purposes, the "lifetime" of that device has ended.


It's called good will and it would possibly increase their customer base and revenue. If TiVo does nothing then they get nothing in terms of cash flow and probably do the opposite by pissing off these early TiVo adopters who may just dump TiVo all together and go with an MSO Box because even that is better than a first gen TiVo in that it can tune HD, or go to satellite. I didn't say to give it to them for free for God's sake, I said sell a Bolt at full retail and then discount All In. Heck not that long ago Lifetime/All In wasn't even close to what it costs now and TiVo survived. So make it $299, but at least it's something.

See the post right after yours, it has merit. These people bought and paid for "Lifetime" service of their boxes and if the box still works, regardless of whether it's connected or in a closet, they still paid for the right to use it when THEY SEE FIT for the "Lifetime" of that box as long as it's working. It's their property after all, and they paid for that right. If they made the decision to keep it somewhere in their possession and not physically discard it, then their intent was just that, to keep it in case there was a need for it again, thus NOT making it scrap and relegating it to the "discard pile" as you say, because they intentionally DID NOT do that!

Doesn't Sears have a Lifetime Guarantee on their Craftsman tools? If I had a wrench that I hadn't happened to use in the last couple years, but then needed it and used it, but then it snapped in half, I can still take it back to Sears and replace it with a new one that's covered under my "Lifetime" Guarantee, no?


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

bmgoodman said:


> I guess it's time I dig up the "unit lifetime" service agreement that I entered into with Tivo when I bought it. The unit did function today. I did dial in. It did complete the download. Seems to me the unit is still "alive".


Worth pointing out that, since it sounds like you weren't here for earlier discussion, they shifted people over to binding arbitration back in 2013; if you didn't say no to it you probably are affected. Arbitration is generally not pro-consumer, and tends to block the only financially viable way of using lawyers in this situation, a class-action lawsuit, especially since I'm sure most owners didn't (I'd bet I didn't bother). At least it sounds like one could have objected to the change and still retain TiVo service; most of the changes to binding arbitration give you Hobson's choice, requiring acquiescence or nothing.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rscott0 said:


> So... you're saying that after 10 years, TiVo could have said "_Hey, guess what? Your lifetime service is over. But if you want, you can spend $600 and get another lifetime service agreement!_"?
> 
> ).


After 10 years I have no idea if TiVo could have said *Your lifetime service is over* , after 100 years for sure TiVo could has said that, that still leaves the question how long is any lifetime equipment deal, has to be greater than 2 years (my guess) and less then 100 years, so without any precedent it just a guess as to just how long is lifetime, as TiVo used it, there may be a precedent but I not going to spend time trying to find it.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

lessd said:


> After 10 years I have no idea if TiVo could have said Your lifetime service is over , after 100 years for sure TiVo could has said that, that still leaves the question how long is any lifetime equipment deal, has to be greater than 2 years (my guess) and less then 100 years, so without any precedent it just a guess as to just how long is lifetime, as TiVo used it, there may be a precedent but I not going to spend time trying to find it.


I've had devices end support after a year or less. with no restitution.
17 years is a long time plus a generous payout for people that actually used it.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

aaronwt said:


> I've had devices end support after a year or less. with no restitution.
> 17 years is a long time plus a generous payout for people that actually used it.


The complaint was no payout for people that were *not* using their Lifetime Series 1 TiVo in the last 7 or 8 months, they forfeited their right without any notice.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

lessd said:


> After 10 years I have no idea if TiVo could have said *Your lifetime service is over* , after 100 years for sure TiVo could has said that...


So are you saying that if I have a newborn child, and buy a life insurance policy for them (don't ask me why I would), the insurance company no longer has to pay if my child lives to 100 years old?



lessd said:


> it just a guess as to just how long is lifetime, as TiVo used it


TiVo stated exactly what lifetime service was. It was for the lifetime of the unit.

Now it is smart of TiVo to transfer the lifetime service to a new device: they get a bit of money from the upgrade purchase, likely plenty enough to pay for the new lifetime service. That prevents most people from even thinking of taking them to small claims court, which is almost a guaranteed loss for TiVo (and hit or miss for the customer).


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

HarperVision said:


> These people bought and paid for "Lifetime" service of their boxes and if the box still works, regardless of whether it's connected or in a closet, they still paid for the right to use it when THEY SEE FIT for the "Lifetime" of that box as long as it's working. It's their property after all, and they paid for that right. If they made the decision to keep it somewhere in their possession and not physically discard it, then their intent was just that, to keep it in case there was a need for it again, thus NOT making it scrap and relegating it to the "discard pile" as you say, because they intentionally DID NOT do that!


Exactly right. I bought a couple Roamios with lifetime in the past year. So didn't need to use the series 1 (and a couple series 2s) for now (after all 10 tuners available on the Plus/Basic combo). BUT I keep them for possible future use, if something fails and I need something to use while getting repairs. And current models require a cable card, some have OTA but not all, none support satellite or UVerse. So if I move to some place that has no cable I have something to use. Or just watch my recordings. As they see fit, you said it all. I am going to hook up all my series 2s, maybe for a month to make sure they get all the updates for Rovi and whatever. Then I guess better connect once a month or so in case of any timeframe connection stipulation if they discontinue series 2 support in the future. At least can use wireless, don't have to make paid phone calls everyday. Heh, I'll bet they changed the term "lifetime service" to "all in service" at least partially to avoid situations like this.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rscott0 said:


> So are you saying that if I have a newborn child, and buy a life insurance policy for them (don't ask me why I would), the insurance company no longer has to pay if my child lives to 100 years old?
> ).


The insurance one I know, at 100 the insurance will pay dead or not, different business than TiVo.
The users of the lifetime Series 1 are getting a good deal, it the people that have a lifetime Series 1 that they have not used them in the last 8 or more months that are getting nothing, I guess you could try court, bit I can only guess that you will not win, I could be incorrect, but I say this because TiVo must have some legal teem look this over before this announcement about the Series 1 Lifetime units.

One person has said that his Series 1 ran for 16 years without ever changing the hard drive, but I would bet not many of the lifetime series 1 owners can say that, and once you open the unit for any reason your lifetime can be canceled, if TiVo wanted to do so under their T&C.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

lessd said:


> ... I guess you could try court, bit I can only guess that you will not win, I could be incorrect, but I say this because TiVo must have some legal teem look this over before this announcement about the Series 1 Lifetime units.


And their lawyers likely said that the contract was for service for the lifetime of the unit, stopping service would be a breach of the contract, but if they can convince their customers to get out of the lifetime contract, they can. And that is what they are doing.



lessd said:


> ... once you open the unit for any reason your lifetime can be canceled, if TiVo wanted to do so under their T&C.


Where in the T&C does it say that? I see nothing.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

lessd said:


> One person has said that his Series 1 ran for 16 years without ever changing the hard drive, but I would bet not many of the lifetime series 1 owners can say that, and once you open the unit for any reason your lifetime can be canceled, if TiVo wanted to do so under their T&C.


Actually, is says the exact opposite of that. Repairs of the unit are allowed.

And then we go into a gray area. Does the DMCA make anyone who opens a Tivo to repair it a criminal? Should the Bolt owners who have already upgraded get their service disconnected too? Where in the TOS does it define what the life of the product is? Does Tivo get to arbitrarily set the number of years? Can they change their mind at anytime?


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## bmgoodman (Dec 20, 2000)

If they wrote the TOS to say something like "if the device doesn't connect to the Tivo service for X {days, weeks, months, years} it forfeits its right to continued service", I would have had no problems with being left out.

I did keep my Series 1, deliberately, for contingency purposes. Tivo decided to end its support without notifying me and for no consideration whatsoever. I would have been willing to buy a Bolt from them at the full $300 price and even pay $200 or possibly up to $300 for "all in" service. My point is they literally offered me NOTHING when I called.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rscott0 said:


> And their lawyers likely said that the contract was for service for the lifetime of the unit, stopping service would be a breach of the contract, but if they can convince their customers to get out of the lifetime contract, they can. And that is what they are doing..


TiVo only doing that for people that have been using their Series 1 for at least the last 7 or 8 months, it the people that had a Lifetime Series 1 unused for the last 8 months or more that are complaining as TiVo giving them nothing, I don't think their lawyers likely said that the contract was for service for the lifetime of the unit, stopping service would be a breach of the contract for people not using the Series 1 anymore as defined by TiVo. I would guess some legal precedent must exists for this, but maybe the TiVo lawyers left TiVo open for *breach of the contract by unused lifetime Series 1 owners.
*

*Where in the T&C does it say that? I see nothing*

See #2

When using our products and services, you may not do any of the following (except to the extent permitted by applicable law): (1) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code, structure, design, or method of operation of software that we provide to you, (2) modify, disassemble, or otherwise tamper with any TiVo hardware, (3) disguise the place of your residence or the location of your use, or (4) attempt to circumvent technological measures or gain unauthorized access through hacking, password mining or any other means.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

lessd said:


> *Where in the T&C does it say that? I see nothing*
> 
> See #2
> 
> When using our products and services, you may not do any of the following (except to the extent permitted by applicable law): (1) modify, reverse engineer, decompile, or otherwise attempt to derive the source code, structure, design, or method of operation of software that we provide to you, (2) modify, disassemble, or otherwise tamper with any TiVo hardware, (3) disguise the place of your residence or the location of your use, or (4) attempt to circumvent technological measures or gain unauthorized access through hacking, password mining or any other means.


They are talking in #2 about tampering with the TiVo hardware (e.g. it says nothing about opening the TiVo being an issue). And it is normal and customary for people to open computers to upgrade the hard drive or repair broken items; the TiVo lifetime agreement says nothing about being unable to repair the device yourself. And from what I can tell, that part of the terms was not present back when the Series 1s were being sold.

In any case, I'm sure a good lawyer for TiVo would look at the issues you point out, and argue in their defense. But if my neighboor chooses to sue TiVo in small claims court, my neighbor pays perhaps $35, but TiVo has to either fly a lawyer in or hire a local lawyer for a couple hours. TiVo loses unless they manage to get the neighbor to pay their attorneys fees, which is likely not going to happen.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

rscott0 said:


> So are you saying that if I have a newborn child, and buy a life insurance policy for them (don't ask me why I would), the insurance company no longer has to pay if my child lives to 100 years old?
> 
> TiVo stated exactly what lifetime service was. It was for the lifetime of the unit.
> 
> Now it is smart of TiVo to transfer the lifetime service to a new device: they get a bit of money from the upgrade purchase, likely plenty enough to pay for the new lifetime service. That prevents most people from even thinking of taking them to small claims court, which is almost a guaranteed loss for TiVo (and hit or miss for the customer).


Most people I know have purchased life insurance for their children. If the worst happens a funeral is very expensive.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

rscott0 said:


> They are talking in #2 about tampering with the TiVo hardware (e.g. it says nothing about opening the TiVo being an issue). And it is normal and customary for people to open computers to upgrade the hard drive or repair broken items; the TiVo lifetime agreement says nothing about being unable to repair the device yourself. And from what I can tell, that part of the terms was not present back when the Series 1s were being sold.
> 
> In any case, I'm sure a good lawyer for TiVo would look at the issues you point out, and argue in their defense. But if my neighboor chooses to sue TiVo in small claims court, my neighbor pays perhaps $35, but TiVo has to either fly a lawyer in or hire a local lawyer for a couple hours. TiVo loses unless they manage to get the neighbor to pay their attorneys fees, which is likely not going to happen.


 I have seen people win in small claims court against contractors and never get a penny.

If someone sues TiVo in small claims court out side of the state where TiVo is incorporated in TiVo that is likely what the end result will be and TiVo doesn't even have to show up. All that happens is the judge will rule in favor of the person suing TiVo. After that good luck collecting, if TiVo refuses to pay all you can do is spend more money to have a judgment placed against them.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> I have seen people win in small claims court against contractors and never get a penny.
> 
> If someone sues TiVo in small claims court out side of the state where TiVo is incorporated in TiVo that is likely what the end result will be and TiVo doesn't even have to show up. All that happens is the judge will rule in favor of the person suing TiVo. After that good luck collecting, if TiVo refuses to pay all you can do is spend more money to have a judgment placed against them.


You have a Lifetime Series 1, 15 years old you have not used in the last 5 years (TiVo has that information), how much could you prove your loss is in any court, current value before this announcement was less then $30 if even that, that will not even cover the filing fee, after getting burned on TiVos first release of the Lifetime Series 1 (as to who lifetime TiVo was referring to) maybe TiVo is dumb enough to do this lifetime Series 1 cut off without *getting any legal option*, just before the co is purchased by ROVI, if that were so, TiVo deserves whatever they get.


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## ashipkowski (Oct 8, 2008)

rscott0 said:


> (e.g. it says nothing about opening the TiVo being an issue).


"(2) modify, disassemble, or otherwise tamper with any TiVo hardware" What does disassemble the hardware mean to you?

In any case, unless you objected to binding arbitration in 2013, you've got an additional barrier up vs. small claims court, one that will likely require hiring a lawyer to try to undo.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

lessd said:


> You have a Lifetime Series 1, 15 years old you have not used in the last 5 years (TiVo has that information), how much could you prove your loss is in any court, current value before this announcement was less then $30 if even that, that will not even cover the filing fee, after getting burned on TiVos first release of the Lifetime Series 1 (as to who lifetime TiVo was referring to) maybe TiVo is dumb enough to do this lifetime Series 1 cut off without *getting any legal option*, just before the co is purchased by ROVI, if that were so, TiVo deserves whatever they get.


My post was more about the general waist of time small claims court is when it comes to suing companies and in many cases even individuals. If you win what you have is a dept owed similar to any unsecured debt. If the person/company who lost refuses to pay there isn't much you can do about it - at least not much that is cost effective.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

atmuscarella said:


> I have seen people win in small claims court against contractors and never get a penny.
> 
> If someone sues TiVo in small claims court out side of the state where TiVo is incorporated in TiVo that is likely what the end result will be and TiVo doesn't even have to show up. All that happens is the judge will rule in favor of the person suing TiVo. After that good luck collecting, if TiVo refuses to pay all you can do is spend more money to have a judgment placed against them.


If you get a judgment, there are ways to collect (especially against a solvent company). It can be a hassle, though, but a legitimate company like TiVo isn't going to give a judgment the runaround.

I believe typically in small claims court (it may vary by state), [1] corporations are required to have an attorney represent them, and [2] if they do not show up, you get a default judgment.

If TiVo did not pay up, and you went after them, you can sue for your costs. It really would not be worth it for TiVo to lose a lawsuit and not pay. It could also make for really bad publicity (who wants to do business with a company that loses lawsuits and refuses to pay?).


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

rscott0 said:


> If you get a judgment, there are ways to collect (especially against a solvent company). It can be a hassle, though, but a legitimate company like TiVo isn't going to give a judgment the runaround.
> 
> I believe typically in small claims court (it may vary by state), [1] corporations are required to have an attorney represent them, and [2] if they do not show up, you get a default judgment.
> 
> If TiVo did not pay up, and you went after them, you can sue for your costs. It really would not be worth it for TiVo to lose a lawsuit and not pay. It could also make for really bad publicity (who wants to do business with a company that loses lawsuits and refuses to pay?).


I have know several people who have won in small claims court and never got money included judgements against businesses.

But like you said it varies state by state. For someone in NY to take a business to small claims court you are supposed to file where the business is located. So what does that mean when the business is out of state? Without lawyers it is basically unworkable. The absolute max one could expect to get back is 100% of what you paid, legal advise might cost that much or more.

In the end I still think trying to take large businesses to small claims court is a waste of time. But people are certainly welcome to try.


----------



## Bwana (Apr 10, 2016)

tatergator1 said:


> Agreed. I'm sure there's more than a few electronics hoarders with 2 or 3 Series 1 units gathering dust in a closet...


Hey, I resemble that remark! Guess it's time to go out to the garage and finally lay to rest those old units. Hard to let go of the first one that I had upgraded with a second hard drive!


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

ashipkowski said:


> "(2) modify, disassemble, or otherwise tamper with any TiVo hardware" What does disassemble the hardware mean to you?


That doesn't mention anything about voiding or altering the lifetime service agreement.

Plus, why isn't Tivo cutting off service for EVERYBODY who modified their Tivos? Why are they only picking on S1 users? It's not a coincidence. Everybody will see right past that.

You own a company with 500 people. It is at-will employment. You go and fire all the people who stole office supplies. 100% of them are black. You state that they were thieves and you have video that proves it. Good luck with that in court or arbitration.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

atmuscarella said:


> In the end I still think trying to take large businesses to small claims court is a waste of time. But people are certainly welcome to try.


I have done it twice. One was a local business, and his attorney met me at the courthouse and gave me exactly what I requested before the case was heard. The other was heard by a magistrate that I believe nearly always finds in favor of the defendant (in Massachusetts, the defendant can appeal, but the plaintiff cannot), but what they did was wrong, and I feel that I did the right thing and would do it again (if people sit back and take it, many businesses will keep giving it to them).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

BobCamp1 said:


> That doesn't mention anything about voiding or altering the lifetime service agreement.
> 
> Plus, why isn't Tivo cutting off service for EVERYBODY who modified their Tivos? Why are they only picking on S1 users? It's not a coincidence. Everybody will see right past that.
> 
> .


First, the phrase is in the T&C is so TiVo can cut service off on any unit if they wanted, not just Lifetime units, TiVo has in the past has never done anything to people that just changed out the hard drive, that does not mean TiVo has given up that right, IE: two cars are speeding, the cop can only stop one, and the cop stops you, you can't go to court with the excuse that the cop did not stop the other speeder.
The law is not fixed on much, that why the courts are so overloaded, but I would guess that TiVo did not cut off non active lifetime Series 1 owners without any legal option, just before a ROVI takeover, would make no sense to me, but who knows, as co.s have done dumber things.


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## rscott0 (Aug 30, 2016)

lessd said:


> ... I would guess that TiVo did not cut off non active lifetime Series 1 owners without any legal option, just before a ROVI takeover, would make no sense to me, but who knows, as co.s have done dumber things.


*If* the law says that by TiVo dropping service to Series 1 DVRs, they must provide "specific performance" (give people what they were promised), then TiVo would have to give them a new/used/refurb DVR with the same or better features (that part is easy) and transfer the lifetime service.

Let's say there were 200,000 Series 1 TiVos sold (just a guess). If they can provide replacement hardware for $100, they could ship out new units to those 200,000 people for $20M. Wow. That's option #1.

Option #2 is to figure out who is most likely to push for something, and offer them something nice. Limiting the offer to 3,000-or-so people, the $75 gift cards might cost them as little as perhaps $100K (since some people won't bother with that). That cost likely gets covered by the profit from the new units they sell at a discount (and subscription fees). Then let's say 500 people push for lifetime service; that costs TiVo very little. Finally, perhaps 50 people push for more (such as free hardware), they take those on a case-by-case basis. Perhaps some they give the free hardware (those that have 3 active TiVos in their house), others they let take them to court or social media.

Option #2 is likely perfectly legal, and saves them tens of millions of dollars.

Of course, if they are not legally required to provide anything (as some claim), option #1 is unnecessary, and option #2 is generous (with the alternative being option 3: doing nothing, and getting bad publicity).


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

rscott0 said:


> *
> 
> Of course, if they are not legally required to provide anything (as some claim), option #1 is unnecessary, and option #2 is generous (with the alternative being option 3: doing nothing, and getting bad publicity).


I have no idea how many people have working lifetime Series 1 units that have not been used for the last 9 or more months* and *even know about the death of the Lifetime Series 1, without that number I can't see TiVo taking much of a hit on not supporting a 16 year old product anymore.


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## JZC (Jul 24, 2007)

Has anyone who filled out the form for the $75 gift card actually received it? I seem to recall the form saying it would take 2-3 weeks but it is going on a month now and I still haven't received mine.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

Good reminder, thanks. I haven't received mine either, so I followed the instructions in the notification and sent off a help request to Tivo. I'm not expecting a prompt reply, but I should hear something in the fullness of time.


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

bkc56 said:


> Good reminder, thanks. I haven't received mine either, so I followed the instructions in the notification and sent off a help request to Tivo. I'm not expecting a prompt reply, but I should hear something in the fullness of time.


I hit redeem now when I received the email on 8/16/16 and sent a follow-up request 9/17/16 and got a form response so we'll see.

I have read this whole thread and did not see where anyone opted to insert a Turbonet card, which according to TIVO, will allow the S1 to continue operating as usual. Mine is calling in every day as normal (9/20/16 last call). Just curious if anyone else has done this.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

rose33090 said:


> I hit redeem now when I received the email on 8/16/16 and sent a follow-up request 9/17/16 and got a form response so we'll see.
> 
> I have read this whole thread and did not see where anyone opted to insert a Turbonet card, which according to TIVO, will allow the S1 to continue operating as usual. Mine is calling in every day as normal (9/20/16 last call). Just curious if anyone else has done this.


That's not what's happening at all.

The POP dial-up numbers just connect you to the Internet, and they'll continue to work because S2 and S3 users are still dialing in. What is being taken down are the Internet servers with the Gracenote guide data.

The S1s need a software update so that they are pointed to the Rovi/Tivo servers instead, and they need new code that tells them how to process the new guide data. The S1s aren't getting any new code. So once Tivo takes down the Gracenote servers, all the S1 dialup connections will either fail or quickly hang up.

Does your guide data end on September 30? It's possible to call in and only get 10 days of guide data. Tomorrow, Tivo may only provide 9 days of guide data. The day after that, only 8 days. Etc. Eventually, I'm guessing that the S1 will dial in, set the clock, and then immediately hang up.

It's also possible that the rollout has encounter delays, so Tivo is going to briefly extend the Gracenote Data so that all the S2s and S3s can catch up. But if the Gracenote contract ends on October 1, they're not going to do that.


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

BobCamp1 said:


> That's not what's happening at all.
> 
> The POP dial-up numbers just connect you to the Internet, and they'll continue to work because S2 and S3 users are still dialing in. What is being taken down are the Internet servers with the Gracenote guide data.
> 
> ...


That's what I thought but at Tivo I saw this, here's what it states:

Premiere series with a phone connection
Your DVR will no longer record after 9/29/16.

See our Networking Essentials page to learn how to connect your Premiere box to a home network and restore full functionality.

If you want to continue to use your Premiere to record shows, you must connect your DVR to a high-speed network connection.

What you outline seems right so I'm misunderstanding this. Just thought there might be a miracle fix. I still use mine every day. Thanks.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

rose33090 said:


> That's what I thought but at Tivo I saw this, here's what it states:
> 
> Premiere series with a phone connection
> Your DVR will no longer record after 9/29/16.
> ...


That's the first time I've seen that Tivo will reject Premiere dial-up connections. But it's true. And the Series 2 and 3 DVRs can still use dial-up without problems. https://support.tivo.com/SupportPor...-that-my-DVR-will-no-longer-record-after-9-29

That's a different problem. I'm guessing that future software updates will only happen over a high speed connection. Since the S3 and S2 aren't getting another update and are just getting guide data, they're OK. But if Tivo continues to update the Premiere code it doesn't want to have to deal with dial-up for those anymore. But that's just speculation.


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

BobCamp1 said:


> That's the first time I've seen that Tivo will reject Premiere dial-up connections. But it's true. And the Series 2 and 3 DVRs can still use dial-up without problems. https://support.tivo.com/SupportPor...-that-my-DVR-will-no-longer-record-after-9-29
> 
> That's a different problem. I'm guessing that future software updates will only happen over a high speed connection. Since the S3 and S2 aren't getting another update and are just getting guide data, they're OK. But if Tivo continues to update the Premiere code it doesn't want to have to deal with dial-up for those anymore. But that's just speculation.


Well, I guess I'll know for certain on October 1. My S3 got an apparently huge update this past weekend. The message said it would be down about 24 hours but the changes seem minor but I presumed it was related to the update that killed S1.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

rose33090 said:


> I hit redeem now when I received the email on 8/16/16 and sent a follow-up request 9/17/16 and got a form response so we'll see.
> 
> I have read this whole thread and did not see where anyone opted to insert a Turbonet card, which according to TIVO, will allow the S1 to continue operating as usual. Mine is calling in every day as normal (9/20/16 last call). Just curious if anyone else has done this.





BobCamp1 said:


> That's not what's happening at all.
> 
> The POP dial-up numbers just connect you to the Internet, and they'll continue to work because S2 and S3 users are still dialing in. What is being taken down are the Internet servers with the Gracenote guide data.
> 
> ...





rose33090 said:


> That's what I thought but at Tivo I saw this, here's what it states:
> 
> Premiere series with a phone connection
> Your DVR will no longer record after 9/29/16.
> ...





BobCamp1 said:


> That's the first time I've seen that Tivo will reject Premiere dial-up connections. But it's true. And the Series 2 and 3 DVRs can still use dial-up without problems. https://support.tivo.com/SupportPor...-that-my-DVR-will-no-longer-record-after-9-29
> 
> That's a different problem. I'm guessing that future software updates will only happen over a high speed connection. Since the S3 and S2 aren't getting another update and are just getting guide data, they're OK. But if Tivo continues to update the Premiere code it doesn't want to have to deal with dial-up for those anymore. But that's just speculation.





rose33090 said:


> Well, I guess I'll know for certain on October 1. My S3 got an apparently huge update this past weekend. The message said it would be down about 24 hours but the changes seem minor but I presumed it was related to the update that killed S1.


I've been thinking this. It seems strange to me that something like just guide data, which to me is mostly just text anyway, would make it so hard for something like an S1 to just switch from the Gracenote to Rovi/TiVo guide data. I guess there's more than that like graphics, etc. maybe? I don't know anything about programming and coding, except the extremely dated stuff I learned in school way back in 1987-88, most of which I've forgotten because it was never really used.

I keep thinking there has to be a much bigger reason why S1's are being phased out, like the new TiVo UX and now it sounds like because they use phone lines for data because TiVo is shutting down their phone modem servers.


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> I've been thinking this. It seems strange to me that something like just guide data, which to me is mostly just text anyway, would make it so hard for something like an S1 to just switch from the Gracenote to Rovi/TiVo guide data. I guess there's more than that like graphics, etc. maybe? I don't know anything about programming and coding, except the extremely dated stuff I learned in school way back in 1987-88, most of which I've forgotten because it was never really used.
> 
> I keep thinking there has to be a much bigger reason why S1's are being phased out, like the new TiVo UX and now it sounds like because they use phone lines for data because TiVo is shutting down their phone modem servers.


Tivo doesn't have any phone modem servers. It has regular servers that are connected to the Internet. Tivo pays some company to provide a POP connection to the Internet that Tivo modems can dial into. After that, the Tivo accesses the Internet just like any other device, it's just on a slower connection.

S1s are officially being phased out because there are only 3500 of them. But that begs the question of how many S2s and S3s are left? The rumor has it that Tivo either lost the S1 code or can't build the S1 executable anymore. That's the unofficial reason.

Now that I think about it, I think the Premiere is getting the new interface, and the new interface probably requires a constant Internet connection to work. You don't get a constant Internet connection with dial-up. But that also means they intentionally broke dial-up just for Premieres. It's possible on their end -- they just detect the IP address and use the TSN number it gets when checking for service status.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

BobCamp1 said:


> Tivo doesn't have any phone modem servers. It has regular servers that are connected to the Internet. Tivo pays some company to provide a POP connection to the Internet that Tivo modems can dial into. After that, the Tivo accesses the Internet just like any other device, it's just on a slower connection.
> 
> S1s are officially being phased out because there are only 3500 of them. But that begs the question of how many S2s and S3s are left? The rumor has it that Tivo either lost the S1 code or can't build the S1 executable anymore. That's the unofficial reason.
> 
> Now that I think about it, I think the Premiere is getting the new interface, and the new interface probably requires a constant Internet connection to work. You don't get a constant Internet connection with dial-up.


Thanks for the info Bob! :up:

Great points about constant internet connections, I didn't think of that either. Maybe that's a big reason too, that they decided to cancel that relationship with the third party POP server for dial-in connections, most likely to save money, right?


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> Thanks for the info Bob! :up:
> 
> Great points about constant internet connections, I didn't think of that either. Maybe that's a big reason too, that they decided to cancel that relationship with the third party POP server for dial-in connections, most likely to save money, right?


They still need the POP provider for S2s and S3s. So I don't think they're saving that much money.

They're going to intentionally break dial-up connections from working with Premieres. It'll still work with S2s and S3s. That's easy on their end. The POP servers have a range of IP addresses they use. Tivo knows it's a Premiere because it knows that when it checks the product service status. If a Premiere tries to download guide data from a POP IP address, the server can refuse that request. But that would leave the POP connection open while the Tivo retires for 10 minutes before giving up. Maybe the Tivo server can send the unit a command that immediately causes it to terminate the connection and hang up.

The other option is that the new software that's already been downloaded to the Premieres for Rovi will block any dial-up attempts from even being generated starting on October 1st.

Or Tivo can do both. Either way, it'll force Premiere owners to stop using dial-up.


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## vjquan (Feb 14, 2009)

Anybody receive their prepaid card yet? I filled out my form the day the email came out (Aug. 16) and still nada. Every call, the rep and even supervisor, are unable to check status or even see if my submission was recorded. They tell me that it's between corporate and VISA and they are in the dark as far as seeing anything pertaining to my request.


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## Christopher71556 (Dec 10, 2014)

TiVo was purchased by Rovio, and they're taking the reigns in October 2016

(they wouldn't let me post the URL to the NY Times article)

So, who knows WHAT the future will bring? I'm trying to sell my Tivo minis as they're not used any longer, but no one (even the tech support folks) can't "figure out how to DEACTIVATE/REMOVE" a device from my account. I can get 75 bucks each for the Tivo minis on Amazon trade in, but they'll STILL be "activated on my account". Tivo has been around for "how long" and they've never figured this conundrum out? Wow.


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

Christopher71556 said:


> TiVo was purchased by Rovio, and they're taking the reigns in October 2016 (they wouldn't let me post the URL to the NY Times article) So, who knows WHAT the future will bring? I'm trying to sell my Tivo minis as they're not used any longer, but no one (even the tech support folks) can't "figure out how to DEACTIVATE/REMOVE" a device from my account. I can get 75 bucks each for the Tivo minis on Amazon trade in, but they'll STILL be "activated on my account". Tivo has been around for "how long" and they've never figured this conundrum out? Wow.


FYI, it's "Rovi", not "Rovio".

I called in yesterday for the exact same thing. The CSR told me it was because of the lifetime service on them and if they removed them it may screw that up when the new owner tries to put it on their account. He put a note in my account approving a transfer when someone calls in about it.

I think that excuse is a bit BS because many people have deactivated minis and reactivate do to get the lifetime service without issue, coming from formally paying monthly.


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

vjquan said:


> Anybody receive their prepaid card yet? I filled out my form the day the email came out (Aug. 16) and still nada. Every call, the rep and even supervisor, are unable to check status or even see if my submission was recorded. They tell me that it's between corporate and VISA and they are in the dark as far as seeing anything pertaining to my request.


I did the same thing, same day and have emailed twice; nothing. I keep getting emails stating I only have till 11/30 to claim my visa but if I click and hit redeem, it does state my number is invalid so there's a disconnect on info but I'm hoping that means I'm in their system and, therefore, cannot redeem again.


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## vjquan (Feb 14, 2009)

rose33090 said:


> but if I click and hit redeem, it does state my number is invalid so there's a disconnect on info but I'm hoping that means I'm in their system and, therefore, cannot redeem again.


Same with me. I assumed (or hope) it means the offer was used on my TSN and not something else.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

vjquan said:


> Anybody receive their prepaid card yet?


I sent in a support request a while back and received the following response:

_Thank you for contacting us. We apologize for the delay. Unfortunately, we experienced some system delays. We have confirmed that you were scheduled to receive your $75 Visa prepaid cards no later than September 30, 2016 if you haven't received them already. _​
So come Oct 1st I'll ping them again if I haven't received them (I have 2 coming) yet.


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

bkc56 said:


> I sent in a support request a while back and received the following response:
> 
> _Thank you for contacting us. We apologize for the delay. Unfortunately, we experienced some system delays. We have confirmed that you were scheduled to receive your $75 Visa prepaid cards no later than September 30, 2016 if you haven't received them already. _​
> So come Oct 1st I'll ping them again if I haven't received them (I have 2 coming) yet.


I haven't gotten any response so you're in their system. How long before you got this response if you remember? Maybe we're just not patient enough??


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

rose33090 said:


> How long before you got this response if you remember?


The e-mail to support is dated Sep 14, the reply Sep 22. So just over a week.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

HarperVision said:


> I've been thinking this. It seems strange to me that something like just guide data, which to me is mostly just text anyway, would make it so hard for something like an S1 to just switch from the Gracenote to Rovi/TiVo guide data. I guess there's more than that like graphics, etc. maybe? I don't know anything about programming and coding, except the extremely dated stuff I learned in school way back in 1987-88, most of which I've forgotten because it was never really used.
> 
> I keep thinking there has to be a much bigger reason why S1's are being phased out, like the new TiVo UX and now it sounds like because they use phone lines for data because TiVo is shutting down their phone modem servers.


Ira said tivo wasn't sure if they could get S1 to work. Wasn't worth the effort to try. The new software required a database conversion. Who knows if the S1 has enough RAM and a fast enough CPU to convert. Sounds like tivo is shutting down dialup. Tivo never offered Ethernet for S1 units. Ira said one reason tivo didn't offer replacement units to S1 customers is because a number if customers were still using dialup.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

Unhappy Obsolescence Day, September 29, 2016.

Series I, RIP.


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## Anotherpyr (May 6, 2015)

terryfoster said:


> I called and my Grandfathered S1 (activated 12/1999) can have the lifetime service transferred, but the Bolt will cost $174.99 for 500GB and $249.99 for 1TB.


Before or after you apply the $75 visa gift card? Given the cost of all in, it sounds like a decent deal.


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

RoamioJeff said:


> Unhappy Obsolescence Day, September 29, 2016.
> 
> Series I, RIP.


16 years is a good run for a consumer electronic product. Anyone still using a computer or phone or tv from back then?


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

trip1eX said:


> 16 years is a good run for a consumer electronic product. Anyone still using a computer or phone or tv from back then?


Absolutely. Have a 486 for old DOS games. Have an Apple IIe and Commodore 128D, also for gaming. Have an old wired phone for when the power is out on landline. And have an old 27" tube TV for 8/16 bit gaming systems. Have the newer stuff too but the older tech is still invaluable for certain uses. As would have been the series 1, though most could be replaced with a series 2. Series 1/2 could be used with satellite, nothing series 3 or above can. I have series 2s still available (I updated them all to Rovi and will connect at least every few months or so, just in case, don't want to find out they have been considered "abandoned" some day.....). Our family had three series 1, for awhile it appeared we would get nothing but after MANY hours of writing/calling etc got enough to satisfy us.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

terryfoster said:


> I called and my Grandfathered S1 (activated 12/1999) can have the lifetime service transferred, but the Bolt will cost $174.99 for 500GB and $249.99 for 1TB.


Well since you have a grandfathered (1999) S1 you could transfer the service to ANY Tivo, don't have to buy a Bolt. That has nothing to do with the current offers/gift card etc due to Rovi. If you don't want/need the Bolt maybe buy it anyway and sell for $500-650 or so?


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

RoamioJeff said:


> Unhappy Obsolescence Day, September 29, 2016.
> 
> Series I, RIP.


Well still can use them manually (always could with a series 1 I think, did not need lifetime/connection to record by time/channel, series 2 was the first to REQUIRE a subscription as far as I know). And again can use with satellite, never know, might move somewhere with no cable or just get so fed up with cable want to dump them.


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

trip1eX said:


> Anyone still using a computer or phone or tv from back then?


LOL. Still running my Win98SE Gateway PC from 1998, although I have newer WinXP, Win 7, and Win10 (groan) systems running along side and I don't rely upon it for anything critical. Still use my circa 2006 Pocket PC Windows Mobile device. And, in the antique department, I still run my circa 1988 Tandy Color Computer III from time to time. I like the oldest stuff and the newest stuff, but not so much in the middle.

Amazing how reliable the old tech was - built to last. I've had several 4-6 year old Wintel PCs fail over the years, but the older the device, the more reliable it appears to be.

Finally, I have my Grandfather's carefully preserved circa 1950s B&W Zenith television, that still turns on and will tune an analog signal. Got a supply of original tubes and a portable tube tester. Will be looking to restore the cabinet. In time it may be a valuable artifact.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

RoamioJeff said:


> Amazing how reliable the old tech was - built to last. I've had several 4-6 year old Wintel PCs fail over the years, but the older the device, the more reliable it appears to be.


Well you know in the "old days" they actually had viable warranties on major items. 3 years, 5 years were common, some even longer. So had to be built well. Now even on a $10,000 TV you get a year, if you want more you have to pay for extended and usually 3 years is max even extended. Heck "complete" warranty on a new Tivo is only ninety days for parts and labor, up to a year you can get a replacement for $49, beyond that have to buy extended. From what I've seen a lot of current electronics that uses capacitors is failing way early (especially monitors/TVs), I'm guessing they use really cheap capacitors on purpose. Just good enough to get you through that first year. Kind of sad but that is the way it is, at least IMO. My old computers and cartridge based gaming systems are mostly still rock solid, even tube TVs, had some that lasted over 20 years and were still working when I got rid of them.


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## aaronwt (Jan 31, 2002)

RoamioJeff said:


> Unhappy Obsolescence Day, September 29, 2016.
> 
> Series I, RIP.


Or better yet..... my Birthday!!!
half a century old though


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## RoamioJeff (May 9, 2014)

aaronwt said:


> Or better yet..... my Birthday!!!
> half a century old though


May you outlive all of your toys!


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## HarperVision (May 14, 2007)

aaronwt said:


> Or better yet.....
> 
> my Birthday!!!
> 
> half a century old though


And nothing's ever wrong with your body, either, which is always at your GF's house!


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## trip1eX (Apr 2, 2005)

tommage1 said:


> Absolutely. Have a 486 for old DOS games. Have an Apple IIe and Commodore 128D, also for gaming. Have an old wired phone for when the power is out on landline. And have an old 27" tube TV for 8/16 bit gaming systems. Have the newer stuff too but the older tech is still invaluable for certain uses. As would have been the series 1, though most could be replaced with a series 2. Series 1/2 could be used with satellite, nothing series 3 or above can. I have series 2s still available (I updated them all to Rovi and will connect at least every few months or so, just in case, don't want to find out they have been considered "abandoned" some day.....). Our family had three series 1, for awhile it appeared we would get nothing but after MANY hours of writing/calling etc got enough to satisfy us.


Everyone has a hobby.


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## JoeG (Jul 3, 2004)

terryfoster said:


> I called and my Grandfathered S1 (activated 12/1999) can have the lifetime service transferred, but the Bolt will cost $174.99 for 500GB and $249.99 for 1TB.


Has anyone noticed that they are charging $50 for transferring a grandfathered lifetime service? Being grandfathered means you are supposed to be able to do a one-time transfer for free. For free. But instead of honoring the "$100 off" offer for the 1TB model, they are only giving you $50 off, which means they are charging you $50 for the transfer.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

JoeG said:


> Has anyone noticed that they are charging $50 for transferring a grandfathered lifetime service? Being grandfathered means you are supposed to be able to do a one-time transfer for free. For free. But instead of honoring the "$100 off" offer for the 1TB model, they are only giving you $50 off, which means they are charging you $50 for the transfer.


The gift card and the $ off were only for S1 owners that connected between Jan 1 and July 31 2016 I think. If you are doing the one time transfer for a pre 2000 S1 they don't have to give any discount really. But you can transfer to ANY Tivo you want, there is no fee.

Seems to me this is what was/is going on.

If you have a lifetime S1 that connected between Jan 1 and July 31 2016 you get a gift card, a discount on a Bolt ($75-125?) and a transfer of service. If you don't have lifetime you'd get the gift card and the discount on the Bolt if you want one, no lifetime to transfer.

If you have a pre 2000 (grandfathered) S1 with lifetime that did NOT connect during those 7 months you can get the one time service transfer to any Tivo. If you buy one from them they don't HAVE to offer any discount. But you have your choice on what Tivo you want to transfer to, could be a S2-6, whatever you want (as long as it is in your name/account). This has nothing to do with the Rovi update.

If you have a S1 that was purchased after 1999, lifetime or not, you may get nothing (if you did not connect between Jan 1 and July 31 2016). If you push it you may get the $175 Bolt and a transfer of your lifetime if you have it.


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## JoeG (Jul 3, 2004)

Maybe I'm not making myself clear. Go to http://pages.email.tivo.com/series1. It says if you have a Jan 1 - July 31 connected Tivo, you can buy a 1 TB Bolt for $200. The issue is that when you also try to invoke the free grandfather transfer, suddenly the price is now $250, so it isn't free anymore. Isn't that what happened to terryfoster? Does anyone else have experience with a *grandfathered* Tivo *that also* was connected between Jan 1 and July 31?


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## jgolden (Feb 17, 2003)

vjquan said:


> Anybody receive their prepaid card yet? I filled out my form the day the email came out (Aug. 16) and still nada. Every call, the rep and even supervisor, are unable to check status or even see if my submission was recorded. They tell me that it's between corporate and VISA and they are in the dark as far as seeing anything pertaining to my request.


When I called on the 29th, they said that they had started sending them out, and that there had been some SNAFU early so it took longer to begin.


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## gthassell (Apr 22, 2003)

I got my cards yesterday.  They each require individual activation, and if not used within 6 months, will be charged at $3.00 / month fee.

You must register the cards before use, and they are issued by Citi.


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## lew (Mar 12, 2002)

JoeG said:


> Maybe I'm not making myself clear. Go to http://pages.email.tivo.com/series1. It says if you have a Jan 1 - July 31 connected Tivo, you can buy a 1 TB Bolt for $200. The issue is that when you also try to invoke the free grandfather transfer, suddenly the price is now $250, so it isn't free anymore. Isn't that what happened to terryfoster? Does anyone else have experience with a *grandfathered* Tivo *that also* was connected between Jan 1 and July 31?


The term "free" generally has terms attached. It appears free ls transfer is with the purchase of new unit at full price. You might be able to buy a unit cheaper and transfer service.

Another way of looking at it $200 price is only available with purchased service. You can't buy a cell phone at a subsidized price, even free, and use it wifi only and avoid a cell bill.


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## TiVoJedi (Mar 1, 2002)

JoeG said:


> Maybe I'm not making myself clear. Go to http://pages.email.tivo.com/series1. It says if you have a Jan 1 - July 31 connected Tivo, you can buy a 1 TB Bolt for $200. The issue is that when you also try to invoke the free grandfather transfer, suddenly the price is now $250, so it isn't free anymore. Isn't that what happened to terryfoster? Does anyone else have experience with a *grandfathered* Tivo *that also* was connected between Jan 1 and July 31?


Which is why it's better to call and play rep roulette with supervisor takeover so they can give you the best price on the Bolt AND transfer your lifetime service without additional cost. If you had your S1 connected through 7/31 you also get the $75 gift card to make it an even sweeter deal!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mahermusic (Mar 12, 2003)

Got my $75 card today... and unplugged the Series 1 a few hours ago after one final dialout. This was an all-original Series 1 that has been working since we plugged it in on 12/31/01. What a workhorse!! 

BTW - We used the $75 gift card and went out to dinner tonight, "celebrating" our Series 1 for almost 15 years of great TV viewing. A sad day, indeed...


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

tommage1 said:


> But you can transfer to ANY Tivo you want, there is no fee.
> 
> If you have a pre 2000 (grandfathered) S1 with lifetime that did NOT connect during those 7 months you can get the one time service transfer to any Tivo.


TiVo is not allowing transfers to the Bolt Plus. Hopefully that changes, but I've been trying and keep getting shot down. Have they finally started allowing the transfers to the Bolt Plus?


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

gthassell said:


> I got my cards yesterday.


We received our two cards also. I'll use one each month on the cable bill to make sure I remember to use them and to do it all at once so I don't have to worry about just how much is left on the card as it gets low.


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## tommage1 (Nov 6, 2008)

RMSko said:


> TiVo is not allowing transfers to the Bolt Plus. Hopefully that changes, but I've been trying and keep getting shot down. Have they finally started allowing the transfers to the Bolt Plus?


Hmm, if it is a grandfathered S1 the only way they could not allow transfer to the Bolt Plus is if they are not selling lifetime at all on the Bolt Plus at this time (they did that with the Bolt when it first came out, lifetime was not available, came bundled with a year or something like that I think). If they are not selling lifetime on the Plus yet I'm sure they will eventually. So you could just keep your grandfathered S1 until they do. However if you accept any of the other offers, gift card, discount on a regular Bolt who knows what would happen. Anyone who does not have the "grandfathered" one time free transfer (ie just connected before July 31 but S1 was not purchased in 1999) probably better grab what they can while they can.


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## bradleys (Oct 31, 2007)

I have gone back and do not see where RMSko said his unit was a pre 2000 grandfathered unit. I am not sure why that is coming up at all.

So the question comes down to, was this an actively used S1 or just something pulled out of a closet after TiVo announced they were no longer going to be supported.

If it was just pulled out of a closet, well, it is an abandoned unit and we both know it.

If It called in during the 6 month window, TiVo is offering a pretty good deal.

That is it, this tread keeps going on and on and I am not sure why.


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## RMSko (Sep 4, 2001)

bradleys said:


> I have gone back and do not see where RMSko said his unit was a pre 2000 grandfathered unit. I am not sure why that is coming up at all.
> 
> So the question comes down to, was this an actively used S1 or just something pulled out of a closet after TiVo announced they were no longer going to be supported.
> 
> ...


My unit is definitely a pre 2000 grandfathered unit, however, it was not active during the required window. My understanding is that it is still afforded the grandfathered treatment. TiVo in fact confirmed that I could transfer lifetime to any receiver they offer EXCEPT the Bolt +. I've now called a bunch of times and have spoken to many supervisors and they all say the exact same thing - they're unable to offer the transfer because there isn't anything in the system that will allow them to process the transfer. Hopefully this changes, but for now I think that's how they're handling it.


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## karmanjchang (Oct 3, 2016)

Hi,

I don't plug in my Tivo to my phone line on a daily basis. I receive the same message regarding my Tivo Series 1 today. However, after I exit from the message, I don't seem to find the message again to find out the process to apply for the $75 gift card. I had a life time membership on my Tivo Series 1, does it mean that I will lose my life time membership?

Thanks,
Jacqueline
================



Seattle said:


> Did anyone else get this email today?
> 
> "Dear Seattle,
> I'm writing to alert you that after September 29th, your TiVo® Series1 DVR will not be able to create any new recordings.
> ...


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## Seattle (Dec 13, 2001)

karmanjchang said:


> Hi,
> 
> I don't plug in my Tivo to my phone line on a daily basis. I receive the same message regarding my Tivo Series 1 today. However, after I exit from the message, I don't seem to find the message again to find out the process to apply for the $75 gift card. I had a life time membership on my Tivo Series 1, does it mean that I will lose my life time membership?
> 
> ...


Your lifetime service will not be lost but guide data will stop. You should have received an Email from TiVo with an offer of a $75 gift card and a discount on a new TiVo Bolt. If your account did not have an Email address on file you will need to call them (My mother's account did not have an Email on file). Many people have also been able to get the lifetime service moved to a new Bolt by asking for a supervisor but with a smaller discount on the new bolt. Give them a call and see what they offer.


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## badcrc (Aug 21, 2000)

I have three series 1 lifetime units I bought back around 2000. I had them all in service up to a few years ago when we remodeled the living room and I had to disconnect everything. That tivo is still sitting with all my audio equipment, but I did intend to hook it back up (reasoning later). My other two tivos are hooked up in my bedroom, until the end last year when one of them stopped working because the power supply started failing. I was intending to fix that one. So during the window for the visa card eligibility I only had one tivo in service, but I totally understand tivo's situation and I definitely got my money's worth out of these units. I didn't expect them to last this long.

To answer the question everyone is asking "Why would anyone be using a 17 year old piece of hardware?", the answer is I don't pay for HD cable, only basic. I have three HDTVs, Amazon Prime, two Fire TVs, a chromecast, a Kindle Fire HDX, and a Kindle Fire that I use to watch HD shows and movies. My tivos were used to record old 4:3 TV shows like Seinfeld or regular TV shows that I don't care about quality that weren't readily available on one of the streaming services I use. I don't think it's worth paying for a cable card tivo plus that monthly fee, a cable card rental fee, and an HD programming fee, when I can use a fraction of that money to pay for much faster internet and streaming services like Prime. I wouldn't even pay for basic cable, but I have to right now for reasons I won't get into.

I would like to be able to transfer my lifetime sub to a bolt or similar, but unfortunately I'm right by a couple mountains west of seattle and I can only pick up a couple spanish channels over the air. Back in the day I remember a tivo guy told us if they went under they had some plan to open up all the tivo software so we could use it without a subscription to hack in guide data or use our box for whatever we wanted. Looks like that isn't going to happen, but I wish there was an easier method to get old recordings off the drive. I have a few that aren't available anywhere I would like to save.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

badcrc said:


> but I wish there was an easier method to get old recordings off the drive. I have a few that aren't available anywhere I would like to save.


The Series 1 have an RF output on ch 2 or ch 3, so you could just connect your Series 1 to any OTA TiVo (or old VCR), tune that TiVo or VCR to the correct ch and make an easy transfer.


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## tim1724 (Jul 3, 2007)

lessd said:


> The Series 1 have an RF output on ch 2 or ch 3, so you could just connect your Series 1 to any OTA TiVo (or old VCR), tune that TiVo or VCR to the correct ch and make an easy transfer.


Roamio and Bolt (and 4-tuner Premiere models) don't have analog tuners so they wouldn't be able to receive the output of a series 1.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

tim1724 said:


> Roamio and Bolt (and 4-tuner Premiere models) don't have analog tuners so they wouldn't be able to receive the output of a series 1.


Ya, I guess you would have to go to any Series 2 TiVo.


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## ronsch (Sep 7, 2001)

Apparently this doesn't impact the Series 1 DirecTivos. Mine is still going strong. Just about to replace the hard drive.


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

Anyone imagine TIVO will take away the daily call alert/message? Ever?


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## BobCamp1 (May 15, 2002)

rose33090 said:


> Anyone imagine TIVO will take away the daily call alert/message? Ever?


Nope.


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## rose33090 (Sep 10, 2014)

BobCamp1 said:


> Nope.


LOL. That's what I figured, too.


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## bobwojo (Jan 9, 2011)

And I got my 4 $75 visa cards today!!!


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## bobwojo (Jan 9, 2011)

lessd said:


> Ya, I guess you would have to go to any Series 2 TiVo.


Transfer to a DVD recorder!


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## te36 (Jun 14, 2002)

lessd said:


> Class action for a 14 year old piece of electronics, give me a break, before this announcement you could not sell a Series 1 with lifetime and net $75 within the last year or so, if any class action was successful the owners of any Series 1 would lucky to get a $25 off any new TiVo and the lawyers would make a fortune.


I have no experience with class action lawsuits. You may make it sound as if the resale value of the product would define the outcome, but is the cost of the loss not the replacement cost ? Aka: Tivo might argue that Lifetime series 2 might go on ebay for less than $75, but there is also lost productivity, searching/buying a used tivo2 with lifetime, installing it, etc. pp.


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## DevdogAZ (Apr 16, 2003)

te36 said:


> I have no experience with class action lawsuits. You may make it sound as if the resale value of the product would define the outcome, but is the cost of the loss not the replacement cost ? Aka: Tivo might argue that Lifetime series 2 might go on ebay for less than $75, but there is also lost productivity, searching/buying a used tivo2 with lifetime, installing it, etc. pp.


Good luck getting a court to grant you those additional damages on a 15 year-old piece of equipment. Besides, class actions rarely go to trial. They almost always work out a settlement where the members of the class get some modest amount and the named plaintiff gets a chunk and the lawyers get a chunk. There's a 0.0001% chance that you could be a member of a class action lawsuit against TiVo for this, and end up with a payout greater than $75.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

te36 said:


> I have no experience with class action lawsuits. You may make it sound as if the resale value of the product would define the outcome, but is the cost of the loss not the replacement cost ? Aka: Tivo might argue that Lifetime series 2 might go on ebay for less than $75, but there is also lost productivity, searching/buying a used tivo2 with lifetime, installing it, etc. pp.


I don't think that any class action on the Series 1 would even make it to court, but if somebody can find a lawyer to take the case they could try. Most courts look at your loss in any case, not your time trying to find any replacement. Windows, as example, when purchased, is for lifetime, but MS can define what that lifetime is within some parameters, 14 years is beyond any support parameters I ever heard of. I get about 10 class action lawsuits per year on stock I owned or owned at one time, I did fill out the paper work on one and after a year I get a check for $5 (I had about $20,000 of the stock at one time in my IRA), I don't fill them out anymore.


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## te36 (Jun 14, 2002)

lessd said:


> I don't think that any class action on the Series 1 would even make it to court, but if somebody can find a lawyer to take the case they could try. Most courts look at your loss in any case, not your time trying to find any replacement. Windows, as example, when purchased, is for lifetime, but MS can define what that lifetime is within some parameters, 14 years is beyond any support parameters I ever heard of. I get about 10 class action lawsuits per year on stock I owned or owned at one time, I did fill out the paper work on one and after a year I get a check for $5 (I had about $20,000 of the stock at one time in my IRA), I don't fill them out anymore.


Yeah, i had only two such class action lawsuits. One for stocks, one for foreign exchange fees by credit card issuers. I think i also only got some peanuts. I never tried to analyze the way those lawsuits work though. The way devdogaz explains, a settlement might cost the defendant more than eg: $75/customer, but it gets mostly split up between the named plaintiff and its lawyers and the rest get peanuts.

I think Tivo compares badly to any other "support" end i can think of. A typical windows-XP HW+software will maintain eg: 90% of its customer use value after support end. Tivo1 maybe only 10% value after support end. 
A lot of vendors want subscription payment products, that what makes the Tivo case interesting. Absolutely (replacement cost after >> 10 years), Tivo1 will have been a great deal, but customer loyalty wise i don't think Tivo is handling it well.


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## Bighouse (Sep 3, 2004)

This kind of customer loyalty support is why I have not bought a BOLT. I was disheartened when my lifetime subs couldn't be transferred over when similar things happened to an older TiVo I owned (new tech/broadcast standards won't support features of older devices). I've been reluctant to buy any upgrades since then and now I think my Roamio Pro will be the last Tivo I will every buy. It's kind of sad because I do like their interface more than any other I've tried. Makes you scratch your head about the term "lifetime subscription".


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Bighouse said:


> This kind of customer loyalty support is why I have not bought a BOLT. I was disheartened when my lifetime subs couldn't be transferred over when similar things happened to an older TiVo I owned (new tech/broadcast standards won't support features of older devices). I've been reluctant to buy any upgrades since then and now I think my Roamio Pro will be the last Tivo I will every buy. It's kind of sad because I do like their interface more than any other I've tried. Makes you scratch your head about the term "lifetime subscription".


That most likely why TiVo changed the wording to* All-In *from* Lifetime service*


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## mschnebly (Feb 21, 2011)

lessd said:


> That most likely why TiVo changed the wording to* All-In *from* Lifetime service*


LOL I'm mad because I cant get "lifetime" on my phone and then transfer it to every phone I buy from now until I die!


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## te36 (Jun 14, 2002)

lessd said:


> That most likely why TiVo changed the wording to* All-In *from* Lifetime service*


User Agreement

With an All-In Plan subscription, (a) you pay just once (rather than monthly, annually, or in some other frequency) for your TiVo service subscription, (b) _*your subscription lasts for the lifetime of your TiVo device*_ (not your lifetime), and (c) you cannot transfer your subscription to another TiVo device (except in cases of warranty repair or replacement under applicable warranty terms).​
The root problem is that it is extremely difficult to offer a lifetime service for a cloud service that needs ongoing licensing (eg: Tribune) and maintenance work. Tivo deals with this by keeping customers unclear about this problem instead tries to improve its own legal situation by arbitration clauses and the like in the user agreement.

Whats more egregious is that Tivo ties functions to the service that would not need to be tied to it because they do not really depend on the cloud. Eg: download of recordings. With lifetime service it seems at least those functions do survive if the cloud goes down, but utlimately you really don't know unless you try, eg: run a Tivo offline and let all service data expire and check what then will continue to work.

Can't say how good or bad Tivo does because i have no good comparison. I still have a lot of squeezeboxes and luckily their cloud service is kept running, but that one was always a free cloud service and requires probably very little maintenance. And i'd just loose 10% functionality on those squeezeboxes if it would go down.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

People can bla bla bla about TiVos veracious service options and their costs all they want. TiVo has been spiting the cost of owning a TiVos into hardware and service costs since day one, we are now over 16 years into this. There is nothing nefarious going on, TiVo is more than willing to tell you at what price point they are willing to sell you a TiVo on any given day of the week. They also run sales, have close out pricing and sometimes offer existing customers special offers. So don't lots of companies.

In the end it all boils down you either thing a TiVo costs to much or you don't. 

There are almost an unlimited number of things I think cost to much and I simple don't buy them, including plenty of things I really would love to have. 

So I have a simple solution for those who think TiVos cost to much. Don't buy one.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> People can bla bla bla about TiVos veracious service options and their costs all they want. TiVo has been spiting the cost of owning a TiVos into hardware and service costs since day one, we are now over 16 years into this. There is nothing nefarious going on, TiVo is more than willing to tell you at what price point they are willing to sell you a TiVo on any given day of the week. They also run sales, have close out pricing and sometimes offer existing customers special offers. So don't lots of companies.
> 
> In the end it all boils down you either thing a TiVo costs to much or you don't.
> 
> ...


I think this Thread is about killing the Series 1, that was purchased new over 13 years ago. What you just said is true but if one does not know how long *Lifetime *or *All-In* lasts, it may be harder to make the decision about the purchase of a TiVo. If TiVo would guarantee say at least 10 years of service on any new Lifetime TiVo, I would think that would better for all of us, if that had been the case the Series 1 owners would have no beef as they got 13-16 years of service.


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## te36 (Jun 14, 2002)

lessd said:


> I think this Thread is about killing the Series 1, that was purchased new over 13 years ago. What you just said is true but if one does not know how long *Lifetime *or *All-In* lasts, it may be harder to make the decision about the purchase of a TiVo. If TiVo would guarantee say at least 10 years of service on any new Lifetime TiVo, I would think that would better for all of us, if that had been the case the Series 1 owners would have no beef as they got 13-16 years of service.


Exactly. I also can not find good description on tivo.com what functions of the device will work a) without service contract, b) with service contract, c) with lifetime service contract when the cloud service went away.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

The units are not designed to work without service. That said the tuners will tune and if the unit had service at one time you can play back the recordings on it. 

When buying a TiVo you have to look at the service as part of the purchase price, it is not optional and without it the units are nearly worthless. You can pay up front (all in), or monthly/yearly for as long as you want to us the unit.


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## te36 (Jun 14, 2002)

Yes thats the easy piece. More importantly, you have to understand that TiVos are cloud-service dependent products and can really be no lifetime support for them. 

. I still have electronics equipment from the last 4 decades that has not stopped to provide the services/features it did when i bought it. Apple2, PS1, etc. pp. 

13 years cloud service for a device is a great track record. It's just IMHO not honestly sold.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

atmuscarella said:


> The units are not designed to work without service. That said the tuners will tune and if the unit had service at one time you can play back the recordings on it.
> 
> When buying a TiVo you have to look at the service as part of the purchase price, it is not optional and without it the units are nearly worthless. You can pay up front (all in), or monthly/yearly for as long as you want to us the unit.


Your correct, but few consumer goods are sold in two parts, hardware + service, and you can't purchase the service except from TiVo itself, but you can purchase the TiVo hardware from many places, but they can't sell you the TiVo service. I guess the cell phone is one example, but some cell phones you can change who provides the service, you can't do that with TiVo. I'm sure there are other products that require service to use like XM radio, but the hardware comes with many cars, you can't op out of the XM radio hardware in a new car that comes with one, but you can op out of the service.


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## atmuscarella (Oct 11, 2005)

te36 said:


> Yes thats the easy piece. More importantly, you have to understand that TiVos are cloud-service dependent products and can really be no lifetime support for them.
> 
> . I still have electronics equipment from the last 4 decades that has not stopped to provide the services/features it did when i bought it. Apple2, PS1, etc. pp.
> 
> 13 years cloud service for a device is a great track record. It's just IMHO not honestly sold.


Given we are in a thread that is about TiVo turning the service off for Series one units, I can understand your point. But it really no different than anything that needs on going support to function. I actually still had friends using analog cell phones when they finally turned off the analog towers, the analog cell phones they had bought long ago no longer worked.

Even if TiVo sold their units for a fixed price and didn't "sell" service at all, if they stopped supporting a unit and no longer provided what we have come to refer to as "service" the unit would be dead. That is just the nature of these products.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

DevdogAZ said:


> Look at it from TiVo's perspective. Do you think that they had any idea that the electronic components that they put into their little glorified Linux boxes would still be running after 15 years of 24/7 use? They certainly didn't plan to still be supporting those boxes 15 years later and from an accounting standpoint, they've been losing money on those units for nearly a decade.
> 
> So while it's great that S1 lifetime owners were some of the early evangelists who helped get the company off the ground, anyone who is still using a lifetimed S1 is actually damaging the company and costing them money, and we all know that TiVo has struggled financially, so those S1 lifetimers still in service are no longer heros to the company, they're actually leeches.


Yes, that well could be TiVo's view; and its administrators, then, should speak with its people who sold "lifetime" subscriptions good for the life of the device; rather than "lifetime" subscriptions good for the life of the device or when TiVo itself determines that life is over, whichever comes first. Having done the former, TiVo is/should be stuck with the result of its actions, just as you and I would be.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

MajorHavoc83 said:


> Hm. Ok. I'm going to try to answer the question from others basically asking, "Why are Series 1 owners complaining about 16 year old hardware? TiVo is giving you more than your ancient electronics are worth."
> 
> I have and still use my Series 1 TiVo with the lifetime sub in my bedroom (I have a TiVo Premier in my family room). The Series 1 still works great! Yes, it is SD, but funny enough the TV in my bedroom is still SD (yes, I know, I know). Anyway, no issues with the old Philips TiVo!
> 
> ...


Having only recently read through this thread (yes, all of it--an interesting issue, even though I'm a mere Series 2 and 5 owner here), I want to commend you for your thoughts and responses, virtually all of which I agree with. IMHO, and seemingly yours, it all comes down to the simple fact that TiVo sold lifetime subscriptions good for the life of the device--for TiVo, now, to itself effectively say that the life of the device now is over _without having made provision for that possibility with the original sale_ effectively would be to allow TiVo to restructure the terms of the sale and rewrite the sales contract as it wishes, when it wishes. In sum, the issue lies with TiVo, not the consumer.

I'm also somewhat amazed by the number of posts here that decry and berate the Series 1 consumers for being overly demanding, as already having gotten their value and still demanding more; some of those posts also decrying, how could a consumer still be using such a long-ago unit. The fact is, the Series 1 users simply are asking for what they purchased, lifetime service on their unit--if TiVo didn't want to provide that, it shouldn't have sold it (without absent qualification). And values are different for all of us--some people are perfectly happy using a perfectly functional analog/tube TV with a converter box, as well as a Series 1 TiVo. In point of fact, my Roamio TiVo in my living room works quite well with my 27" Quasar analog/tube TV, as does my single-tuner (gasp!) Series 2 Toshiba TiVo DVD recorder/player (with attached digital signal conversion box) with my 29" digital TV in the bedroom, which I'm watching right now . . . .


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## mjfoxtrot (Dec 1, 2016)

Just curious: is TiVo making good on its promise to give people the $75 gift cards? They have not in my case. I received an email from TiVo on Sept. 13, explaining that my Series 1 unit that I have owned and used since 2000 would no longer receive the necessary guide data and that the company would give me the $75 gift card. There was a nice big blue button in the email, with the words "REDEEM NOW." So I clicked it, filled out the necessary information, and sent it in. More than two months later, I still have received nothing. 

A few weeks ago, I decided to check on the status. I called the number that TiVo provided in the email I received (877-407-1983) and talked to a TiVo representative. I explained to her that TiVo had contacted me about a $75 gift card, and I provided the necessary information the company requested. She told me that the office I called "had no information" on gift cards, so I asked for another number to call. She somewhat begrudgingly told me she would check with a higher-level supervisor in her office about the gift card. She took my information and put me on hold for 10 or 15 minutes, then got back on and said "we'll investigate this." She took my cell phone number and said someone would get back to me in a week.

So, two weeks later, after I heard nothing, I called the number again, and got pretty much the same treatment. I was told they are "investigating" my situation, and once again, they took my cell phone number. But I am not optimistic about hearing anything. I mean, what on Earth are they "investigating"???

What I find most troubling about this is that TiVo contacted me in September and offered the gift card. I provided them with the information they requested, and then they seemed to have reneged on their end of the bargain. A company that operates like that is not very considerate of its customers.

Anybody else having trouble getting the gift card? I see on this forum post that there have been a handful of people who did get the cards. But I am curious about how many people may not have gotten them.


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## lessd (Jan 23, 2005)

Mikeguy said:


> Having only recently read through this thread (yes, all of it--an interesting issue, even though I'm a mere Series 2 and 5 owner here), I want to commend you for your thoughts and responses, virtually all of which I agree with. IMHO, and seemingly yours, it all comes down to the simple fact that TiVo sold lifetime subscriptions good for the life of the device--for TiVo, now, to itself effectively say that the life of the device now is over _without having made provision for that possibility with the original sale_ effectively would be to allow TiVo to restructure the terms of the sale and rewrite the sales contract as it wishes, when it wishes. In sum, the issue lies with TiVo, not the consumer.
> 
> I'm also somewhat amazed by the number of posts here that decry and berate the Series 1 consumers for being overly demanding, as already having gotten their value and still demanding more; some of those posts also decrying, how could a consumer still be using such a long-ago unit. The fact is, the Series 1 users simply are asking for what they purchased, lifetime service on their unit--if TiVo didn't want to provide that, it shouldn't have sold it (without absent qualification). And values are different for all of us--some people are perfectly happy using a perfectly functional analog/tube TV with a converter box, as well as a Series 1 TiVo. In point of fact, my Roamio TiVo in my living room works quite well with my 27" Quasar analog/tube TV, as does my single-tuner (gasp!) Series 2 Toshiba TiVo DVD recorder/player (with attached digital signal conversion box) with my 29" digital TV in the bedroom, which I'm watching right now . . . .


Just one note it hard to think that a hard drive running 24/7 lasted 13 to 15 years, replacing the drive voids any Lifetime service, TiVo in the past has not made any fuss about this, but if you push them TiVo could, how many Series 1 units are still running today never having the cover off, still using the phone and original hard drive, I would guess not many if any at all.


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## Mikeguy (Jul 28, 2005)

lessd said:


> Just one note it hard to think that a hard drive running 24/7 lasted 13 to 15 years, replacing the drive voids any Lifetime service, TiVo in the past has not made any fuss about this, but if you push them TiVo could, how many Series 1 units are still running today never having the cover off, still using the phone and original hard drive, I would guess not many if any at all.


Voids Lifetime service or voids the warranty? If under the terms of TiVo's sale it's the Lifetime service, then, under my position, one might have to concede TiVo's rights. On the other hand, one might also argue that TiVo routinely has accepted drive replacements.


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## bkc56 (Apr 29, 2001)

mjfoxtrot said:


> Just curious: is TiVo making good on its promise to give people the $75 gift cards


Yes. They were a bit slow but I receive my two gift cards some time back.


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## cromeyellow (Nov 4, 2008)

I just heard about this. I bought two Series 1, 60 hour TiVos (made by Phillips in those days), in November 2000, at about $600. each (with a $200. rebate from TiVo on each), plus $199. for each for the "lifetime" service.

I phoned TiVo and asked about my two $75. gift cards, and they looked up my old account and my email address from 2000 is still valid, but I never got any notice from them. The rep today said that the Series 1 service was terminated only for those who "took advantage of the promotion" (i.e., accepted the $75. gift cards) - that the Series 1 service is still working lifetime for those who did not avail themselves of the gift card or transfer to anew TiVo box, offer.

This sounds pretty fishy to me, but he gave me a Case # and reassured me that my Series 1 are still activated with full lifetime service. I am going to email TiVo for written confirmation of this.

One of my Series 1 is broken so I can't even test it, but the other one I'll plug in and check to see if the service is still working.


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

cromeyellow said:


> I just heard about this. I bought two Series 1, 60 hour TiVos (made by Phillips in those days), in November 2000, at about $600. each (with a $200. rebate from TiVo on each), plus $199. for each for the "lifetime" service.
> 
> I phoned TiVo and asked about my two $75. gift cards, and they looked up my old account and my email address from 2000 is still valid, but I never got any notice from them. The rep today said that the Series 1 service was terminated only for those who "took advantage of the promotion" (i.e., accepted the $75. gift cards) - that the Series 1 service is still working lifetime for those who did not avail themselves of the gift card or transfer to anew TiVo box, offer.
> 
> ...


As you suspect, the rep is wrong. The guide data source was completely changed and Series 1 units cannot use it, so any Series 1 is essentially worthless at this point.


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## cromeyellow (Nov 4, 2008)

When I login to my Series 1 TiVo account, it looks like this, which looks similar (but not quite the same) to the three lifetimes I have on my TiVo Roamios. Both Series 1, and the three Roamio Pros, show as "active" TiVo devices.

Below are the screenshots of the two Series 1 on one account, and the three Roamio Pros, on the other account.

For those of you who were definitely terminated and received the termination notice email, what do you show when you log in?

To be honest I'd rather get the $75. cards or be able to transfer the service to a Bolt+, especially on the broken Series 1. The broken one probably just needs a new hard drive though.


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## cromeyellow (Nov 4, 2008)

I guess I got to plug the Series 1 sucker in and verify that this is true, because TiVo just emailed me to confirm that yes my devices "will carry on and will not be terminated."


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## tatergator1 (Mar 27, 2008)

cromeyellow said:


> To be honest I'd rather get the $75. cards or be able to transfer the service to a Bolt+, especially on the broken Series 1. The broken one probably just needs a new hard drive though.


IIRC, one of the requirements for the Series 1 Lifetime transfer or $75 was that the unit was working and had previously connected to the Tivo service during a specific window of time prior to the announcement of the offer. You have two bricks. The working Series 1 may have "service" but it's no more than a glorified digital VCR at this point.

The ship has sailed for you. It sounds like you were never eligible for the offer to begin with, which is probably why you never got the email.

Full Details of the original offer here: https://www.tivocommunity.com/TiVo_Series1_DVR_Communication.jpg


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## cromeyellow (Nov 4, 2008)

I've been in these situations before, where a company says one thing but then backs down later, but before I jump the gun I'm blowing the dust off the unit to plug it in, lol. It actually was connected at some point last year on a standalone TV, so I dunno why they did not email me.

I agree with you though, that most likely I will plug it in and it will not receive program data, but if I'm to build a case I need evidence.


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## cromeyellow (Nov 4, 2008)

TiVo had me jump through hoops such as Forcing a connection to TiVo service, repeating Guided Setup, etc. to establish that the Series 1 is unable to download data, now working with them for some relief. At TiVo, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing or thinking apparently. I suspect this is going to take a while.

I also have a series 2 with lifetime sitting around I'd better connect that every now and then or else it'll end up in this same situation someday I suppose.

Still, I remember when people didn't expect TiVo to make it more than five years and the company is still around.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

cromeyellow said:


> TiVo had me jump through hoops such as Forcing a connection to TiVo service, repeating Guided Setup, etc. to establish that the Series 1 is unable to download data, now working with them for some relief. At TiVo, one hand doesn't know what the other is doing or thinking apparently. I suspect this is going to take a while.
> 
> I also have a series 2 with lifetime sitting around I'd better connect that every now and then or else it'll end up in this same situation someday I suppose.
> 
> Still, I remember when people didn't expect TiVo to make it more than five years and the company is still around.


Keep calling TiVo, I did and they transfer the lifetime service from a dead HD unite to the Rroamio.


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## cromeyellow (Nov 4, 2008)

Thanks Johncv. Was the dead unit a Series 1 TiVo?

I worked something out with them. They wouldn't transfer the service for free (I tried!), but they let me buy a Bolt+ 3Tb for $50. off and gave me $200. off the lifetime "all in" service on the Bolt+.

They said that because they had no record of the two Series 1 TiVos being connected during that six month period in 2016 (I disagreed with that assertion, but anyway), that I didn't get the $75. x 2 gift cards. Anyway, two $75. gift cards is $150. and here I got $250. in benefits which is more. I got the impression that September 2016, when they did this promotion wasn't so VERY far away, which is why they helped me.

I wanted to buy a Bolt+ anyway because of the 4K which I'll be able to use on my 4K TV. Plus I get a $25. rebate on the credit card I used to pay, under a current promotion the card company gave me.


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## Johncv (Jun 11, 2002)

cromeyellow said:


> Thanks Johncv. Was the dead unit a Series 1 TiVo?
> 
> I worked something out with them. They wouldn't transfer the service for free (I tried!), but they let me buy a Bolt+ 3Tb for $50. off and gave me $200. off the lifetime "all in" service on the Bolt+.
> 
> ...


It was an HD TiVo, I think you receive a good deal.


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